1015600+ entries in 0.784s
mircea_popescu: the
title is just a conveniend way
to cleave ownership and posession
[\\\]: just a formal way
to identify
the passing of ownership
mircea_popescu: smickles
the purpose of deeds isn't
to prevent anyone from owning "independently"
BTC-Mining: For
the last
time
the whole point is not relying on auditors working all
the
time
to verify people's account constantly.
BTC-Mining: No, making all
the different automated processes.
BTC-Mining: Would get complicated
to design systems for all
these cases however.
smickles: i'm sure
there are many more situations
too
smickles: trusted, because glbse signed
the data
smickles: like i said earlier, x proves y at
time z
BTC-Mining: Ah, so it appears exactly as on
the report...
smickles: but
the links would show current data, not past data, right?
BTC-Mining: Well... if
they're online, we go back
to clicking a link put in references
to be easier...
smickles: the api calls would show
the current data, which would be out of date with
the reports
smickles: if i wanted
to presentthe
traditional financial reports of a company and have
the data verified by glbse
smickles: i
think it's useful for online people
too
BTC-Mining: It's not very useful except for offline people however. And adds extra steps
to verify signatures.
smickles: not
that it needs it, but
that it benifits form it
smickles: I don't see why you need a specific and complicated example
to see
the benifit in an exchange automatically signing a doc like you want.
smickles: well, didn't i suggest
that
the information be signed because it add benifit at almost no cost?
BTC-Mining: Yes. For
that it could be helpful except GLBSE users are anonymous and I can't send
them documents offline.
BTC-Mining: The whole point was for funds
to make
the holdings public if
they wished so, so GLBSE doesn't have
to manually confirm
that.
BTC-Mining: But
then we'd probably need account auditors
to give only specific information and sign it from GLBSE
Bane_Capital: Obsi:
The announcement was Stallman's plush GNU will now be auctioned off for Bitcoins.
smickles: this is what i meant
to imply by related or unrelated.
the data presented could contain more
than just
the assets in
the account link information
Obsi: Did Gavin ever give
that September announcement?
BTC-Mining: If
the link displays all
the accounts hold,
that wouldn't rquire more
than 1 click...
BTC-Mining: Why would people
take
the
time
to verify
the signature if
they can just click a link
to see it directly on GLBSE?
smickles: the purpose of most all financial reports is
to present
the status at a given
time anyway
BTC-Mining: Especially since it doesn't make any guarantee
the account is still in
the same standings
smickles: BTC-Mining: you do for independant reports/publications using
that information
BTC-Mining: But
the
thing is, you don't need
that record if GLBSE can just show it.
smickles: BTC-Mining: and it's
trivial
to do both at
the same
time
smickles: BTC-Mining: so
that you can have a record of
that data which can be
trusted
smickles: mircea_popescu: also, if i understand deeds correctly,
their main purpose is
to prevent
the individual from owning
the
thing independantly. in
the case of cars, you don't own your car, you and
the state own
that car
smickles: "it's
to prove ownership" BTC-Mining am i missing something here, or were you wanting
to prove ownership of assets in a glbse account?
BTC-Mining: So funds manager may make
their account holdings public if
they wish so
mircea_popescu: but anyway, enough of
this. im not getting paid enough
to save anyone work on
the matter.
mircea_popescu: yes. and
this is a bad ideea because
there's a slew of legitimate reasons
the holder might not want
to make
this available.
BTC-Mining: There's no purpose in holding
the receipt,
the purpose of
that API feature would be for people
to check an account's content live.
BTC-Mining: The data is so people not owning
the account can verify
the holdings on said accounts PRESENTLY. A signed receipt wouldn't guarantee anything 1 second afterward.
BTC-Mining: The deed is different. It's
to prove ownership.
mircea_popescu: why do you even get a
title deed instead of just being
told you own
the car ?
BTC-Mining: Hence why sign receipts at all instead of just showing
the data?
BTC-Mining: So if someone can change data on GLBSE... signed receipts are affected
too...
BTC-Mining: Signed by GLBSE? GLBSE needs
to have
the key on
the server
to generate signed receipts...
BTC-Mining: But I can't publish
that myself,
the point would be for people
to be able
to verify
themselves directly on GLBSE.com what a public account is holding.
BTC-Mining: Well
the main point would be
to not have someone always verifying accounts holdings.
BTC-Mining: Ah, you're suggesting with
the cold wallet's key? Would have
to be manual signatures.
mircea_popescu: we're going
to have
the 2 years of learning how
to use wallets on servers
BTC-Mining: It depends if
the key and signature is done automatically from
the server.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining are you sure you understand how signed receipts work ? cause no, having access
to
the server wouldn't invalidate a signature.
smickles: I would
tell you
the name, buy i haven't reserved it yet
BTC-Mining: It's loaned
to BitBond in exchange of hashing
tho. I wonder what he spent it on.
smickles: BTC-Mining: because i'm going
to start an accounting company once if finish
this move
Bane_Capital: BTC-Mining: I like
that you haven't bought mining hardware yet. Smart move.
BTC-Mining: Aye, anyway. I need something
to spend BTC on.
smickles: yeah, but a lot of people need
to clik a link for it
to exist
BTC-Mining: Or on
the API page. You don't need
to make API calls
to see API pages
BTC-Mining: Yeah, I meant
the info
to be shown directly on GLBSE
smickles: (or i
trust
that other person)\
smickles: well, if i don't know how/don't want
to call on an api,
then i cant
trust someone else
telling me
the info unless it's signed by glbse
smickles: if it's only public via an api, you are excluding people from
the
trustable knowledge of
the information
BTC-Mining: glbse.com/api/public/username returns a list of holdings in
that account
BTC-Mining: as in if, for example, I check a box in settings
to make holdings public
smickles: BTC-Mining: wouldn't you want
to publish
the status you
the
things in your account?
BTC-Mining: If
the person can change data on GLBSE, it would affect any signed receipt.
BTC-Mining: mircea, if someone has access
to change
that data, signing it would be just as possible.
The person would have access
to
the server.
smickles: also, if X claims
to have had y at z
time,
the sig could prove past events
BTC-Mining: So I guess simply making
the data API visible would be enough.
smickles: mircea_popescu only bets when it's a sure
thing. like against me winning a 170 seat poker
tourny
BTC-Mining: Well
the statement only guarantees
the holdings at
the
time
the person requested
the data...
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining maybe with a gpg signature of
the exchange ?
mircea_popescu: smickles i have no ideea,
the only
thing seems
to be
that network hash output growth consistently beats expectations.
kakobrekla: smickles, it will
take months before we see asic doing work
smickles: mircea_popescu: so what, asic not going
to makeas large of an impact as previously expected?
BTC-Mining: So people can see if a fund's claimed holdings are indeed in
the account.
BTC-Mining: Yeah, I was not
talking about an "audit" audit
smickles: what's
that supposed
to mean kakobrekla
smickles: there was a ~130btc buy not
too long ago
smickles: someone buying up gsdtp it seems, 1 decibitcoin at a
time
smickles: well,
they curate other bitcoin assets
smickles: (not sure of
the
ticker for bluechip)
smickles: Smoovious: i
think BBBB leaves
their funds on
the exchange (or claims
to anyway)
smickles: (enron for
those who dont' get
that)
smickles: look
to arthur anderson
to see what hapens when you even unknowingly mess up
smickles: even if it were legal for me
to do it, i would be uncomfortable auditing all but
the simplest business models
smickles: it's complicated stuff
that
takes a
trained eye
smickles: suppose
they raise capital off of glbse
too, and pay dividends out of
the capital
they nominally raised on glbse
smickles: yeah,
there would be gaming and also. :