1015300+ entries in 0.703s
Lyspooner: mircea_popescu, your PR girl or you dressed up as a PR girl was mean
to
the BFL guy on
the forum
mircea_popescu: at any rate
this current "blame
the hacker" atmosphere is noxious.
Lyspooner: i would have
thought it was at least an irrational number
Bane_Capital: A man once said A man’s opportunities are never exhausted so long as other men (who are not his friends) possess millions of acres and
thousands of
tons of gold.
mircea_popescu: an ideal legal system would force any company
that had it's computers hacked
to pay
the hacker a minimum fee plus
twice whatever
they managed
to steal.
mircea_popescu: and
the miners really can stfu, if
they want
to mine
they can mine, but
they;'re not allowed
to bring arguments about how others "shouldn't be allowed"
to mine
BTC-Mining: Well
their profit share is lowered and it harms others (who pays for equipment degradation and electricity). Since it's something you wouldn't want
to see happening
to yourself and
the reduced profit share is also not in your interest,
there's
twice
the incentive
to not be satisfied of
the situation.
mircea_popescu: it's not stealing from miners, it's stealingfrom
the owners of
the hardware.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining
the fact
that a botnet is stealing is irrelevant
to
the mining.
BTC-Mining: So
there's no ambiguity
that a botnet would be stealing.
BTC-Mining: I'm pretty sure
the definition of
theft is "taking something from someone else by force or without
the knowledge of
the current owner"
mircea_popescu: indians in
the us didn't have a "proper" concept of property
mircea_popescu: easily fixed :
those who don't have it are relegated
to
the status of animal
Bane_Capital: We're discussing if
the concept or property is universal in
the minds of all men.
Bane_Capital: It is very possible
the concept of right and wrong only exist in
the individual minds of men
BTC-Mining: Either have
to convince
them yes, or enforced it.
BTC-Mining: Smoovious, if said persons don't interpret
the rules in
the same way and refuse
to recognize something, how are you more right
than
them if both side have claims based on interpretation.
Bane_Capital: It's only
the idea being recognized
that makes any such obligations
true.
Bane_Capital: I mean, imagine
telling an animal
that it owes you affection.
Bane_Capital: Doesn't
that seem a bit religious
to you? What you say is
totally imaginary.
Bane_Capital: Smoovious:
Try collecting debt from a heavily armed militia
Bane_Capital: A man has no obligation if he is
the highest power in
the situation.
Bane_Capital: An obligation only goes as far as
the means
to enforce said obligation
Bane_Capital: You can define what is your property simply by having
the force
to have it your way.
Bane_Capital: I
think
this only demonstrates
the concept of property varies a lot.
BTC-Mining: And usually,
the government will liquidate it for you
then, not
take it for free.
BTC-Mining: If you can't pay
the
taxes, you can usually sell it before it's repossessed
BTC-Mining: You own
the property as long as you pay for
the benefits from being within said community.
BTC-Mining: Yes, but you're established in
the middle of a community with
that set of ethics and mutual interest. You have some rules
to respect, but benefit from
the public infrastructure.
Bane_Capital: If you violate some sort of code,
they
take your land away.
Bane_Capital: Smoovious: If you don't pay property
taxes,
they
take your land away.
BTC-Mining: Different ethics
tho usually ends up in conflict, especially with people who have ethics allowing
them
to force
things upon others.
BTC-Mining: But you should still follow one, if you want
to avoid
things. It usually consist of defending people against what you wouldn't want happening
to yourself. Just so people who believe it's right
to do it are detered.
Bane_Capital: and
they do have
the force
to defend
that claim.
Bane_Capital: Does
the land of Israel belong
to
the Israeli government?
Bane_Capital: People
think defining a universal set of ethics makes
their desires more relevant and important.
Bane_Capital: I justify
this
through god, morality, ethics, my dick, etc.
Bane_Capital: In
the end it's just "People are doing
things I don't like."
Bane_Capital: I
think
the real fact is people don't like
those who use means
they don't want
to or can't.
Bane_Capital: Smoovious: What is property in
the end? It's whatever you have possession of. Most property of
today was illegitimately claimed.
BTC-Mining: (yes I know
there's very legal corporations already doing
that)
BTC-Mining: one contribute
to
the network by paying for
the resources
they use.
The others by stealing others CPU/GPU
time and electricity, making
those lose money,
to get
the money from
the network in return (a part of what would go
to regular miners.) It has nothing
to do with regular miners feeling entitled
to it, it has
to do with finding it a very bad practice
to cause harms
to other for profit
Bane_Capital: So, who is
the victim? I mean,
the computer user has no feelings or pain in regards
to it.
Bane_Capital: Is it really
theft if
the computer user doesn't realize a
thing?
Bane_Capital: You're going
to have
to work
to get what you want in
the end.
Bane_Capital: All I am going
to say is
that if
the universe is hurting you
through starvation, bad weather or illness and you want otherwise
mircea_popescu: it is perfectly fair
that some individuals use mining power
to mine bitcoins
BTC-Mining: Bane_Capital, I cannot really predict
that.
BTC-Mining: You're saying
that like it's easy
to do, or
that it's perfectly fair
that some individuals reduces
the income of other miners using stolen resources.
Bane_Capital: People are so entitled. If
they don't like a botnet,
take it down.
Bane_Capital: "Using botnets
to mine Bitcoins deprives hard-working legitimate Bitcoin miners from generating
those coins and
therefore receiving payment."
mircea_popescu: also
there's some electricity cost you have
to substract
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining of course at
that price
there's going
to be 1-200
th maybe
Obsi: EskimoBob:
They sent me negative infinity
BTC-Mining: I'm surprised it hasn't sold down
to 0
BTC-Mining: But we all know
the GPUs currently mining are incredibly more expensive
than
that =/
BTC-Mining: 1% per hour returns... at
that worth...
BTC-Mining: Well
there's some regulations against manipulations. Although spreading rumors
to bring
the price down would be considered, I don't
think putting large underpriced asks counts.
PsychoticBoy: <gmaxwell>
Tiraspol:
the one argument I have aga
PsychoticBoy: 60GH/s at $1,299, Avalon ASIC debuts as
the leading product in its field. Coming
to your doorsteps Q1 of 2013.
BTC-Mining: I can usually come
to
terms with all people, simply by not being fast
to pull on
the
trigger.
mircea_popescu: i just looked, 350+ lines ignored
this session alone. i am a happy man.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining if it's a party you're
the only one in it not on my ignore, so...
BTC-Mining: I shouldn't interupt
the pary like
that.
BTC-Mining: He was asking if CPA was
turning into one.
BTC-Mining: It's his
term for anything
that loses a large % of initial IPO price. EskimoBog
tags
them as financial
turds.
BTC-Mining: Seriously... not ONE, SINGLE attack lines of
the "moron/retard/troll" is even worth answering, ever. Especially by more "moron/retard/troll" statements. Stay classy my friends.
BTC-Mining: EskimoBob, yeah, I'm kind of pushing Nefario a bit for funds/portfolio managers
to have
the option
to make
the account holdings public at any
time directly from GLBSE