1012700+ entries in 0.896s
copumpkin: except I'm not in it
to
trade
them
copumpkin: cause I was bummed when
they
took
those off
the CME
copumpkin: I hope
they bring back pork bellies
mircea_popescu: While
this sounds intriguing, I'd like
to hear a good case for why BitCoin makes sense in
this context.
knotwork: it can always be argued
that gaming on
the whole
top down view is itself a scam or
that any one or all of
the *coins used
to play with are, and so on
knotwork: the game system has
to enable characters
to be able
to actually invest in
things
that are not, in
the game at least, scams
knotwork: but a big part of my goal has always been
to be able
to have inestments inside
the game
that are not, like in EVE online, all invariably scams
knotwork: unfortunately for some parties
though,
the distinctions between "player" and "investor" blur, a slippery slope
knotwork: thus no matter how stinking rich
the whole shebang sounds from its pretty names and numbers, really any "profit" investors stand
to gain boils down
to only however much players are willing
to pay
to play
knotwork: the big picture with games requires constantly remembering
that no matter how much "assets"
there are running around in cycles, ultimately you cannot
take more out
than you put in
knotwork: I was
talked out of
that
though, instead just charge each nation by
the "square miles" freeciv records
their nation as in control/ownership of
knotwork: I had actually considered accounting hosting fees even for un-played nations,
thinking maybe anyone who later
takes over
that population faces
those fees, as if its kind of cumulative falling apart of society
that new ruler will need
to make up for
to get full value from
the conquered people
knotwork: do you mean bankruptcy? if
they somehow manage
to go into debt (its pretty foolish
to let
them in
the first place, loaner should hold collateral)
then failure
to pay is
the default you are
talking about?
knotwork: so if
they fail
to pay
the fees
to stay a live corp
they get dissolved
mircea_popescu: sounds
to me
this game economy has serious problems of balance
knotwork: the death of
the character who is sole owner maybe
knotwork: not sure what
they defaulted on
though? what constitutes a default?
knotwork: they just don't visit
those rooms of
their hoard unless
they hear
the
things have started
to be valuable again
knotwork: but look at supposedly "dead" altcoins, you don't see everyone running around
trying
to sell what
they have hoarded of
them
knotwork: but
they dont need dividends for
that
knotwork: if
they see
that Martian BotCoins cost more DeVCoins each all
the
time
they might sell DVC
to buy MBC
knotwork: or some kind of default
that could apply
to assets
that do not do divs?
knotwork: I mean
these guys have rooms full of magic swords
they never bother
to
take
to a shop
to sell,
they are hoarders
knotwork: but if its still paying dividends
they likely wont care how much it is supposedly worth since
they already own it
knotwork: if
they see
that go down
they might look inside
to see which went down
knotwork: well I can show
them
the "nav"
type readout
too, how much
their moneymachine is worth if
they sold it
knotwork: instead
they just look at
their magic money from no-where readout and add
to it when
they can
knotwork: seriously
these are mostly not people really into
the forex/stocks/bonds parts of
the game,
they dont sit
there figuring out hey I could sell
these shares
to buy
those other shares
knotwork: so more likely
to actually find a seller if
there are no dividends
knotwork: but without dividends,
they have
to actually sell some
to manifest
their profits or rwards or capital
knotwork: as
they are just free money forever for doing nothing
knotwork: most of my players seem unlikely
to ever sell any shares
that provide dividends
knotwork: well yeah but if you consider games fictional
then
that need not be a bad
thing
mircea_popescu: if
there were no dividends fictional issues would just carry on infinitely.
knotwork: I suppose eventually
there will be some kind of meta-client for issuers
that will go around
to all places
they issued some of
their shares and handle dividends at
that outlet but seems like a lot of added complexity
knotwork: I dont like dividends, confusing
the prices is just part of why
Bugpowder: nice...
the MPCD
trading bot
that has been putting out unfavorable bid ask spreads for people
to pick up didn't realize dividends haven't been paid yet
dub: I like
the my anus is bleeding one
copumpkin: mircea_popescu:
that seems suitably stirred
copumpkin: I love how he
talks about shareholders' privacy but
then posts someone's passport
Obsi: ;;later
tell usagi yep
gribble: usagi was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 hours, 1 minute, and 3 seconds ago: <usagi> Patrick's fund has nothing
to do with NYAN.A
tho.
da2ce773: lol well boys, I'm off
to
the gym (gotta keep my ass looking good if you want
to be a OT developer)...
knotwork: thus for example
the Martians hold a lot more stuff
than
the Canadians so Martian BotCoin evaluates as worth more
than Canadian Digital Notes
knotwork: but for assets
that every single item of
them is on my server I can
try
to add up
their value by looking at
the reserves (assets)
they hold
knotwork: so in practice for BTC and DVC and IXC etc -
the chains where I do not know what
they actually own - I have
to go get market prices and plug
those in
knotwork: in reality one cannot rely upon "BTC"
to "back" itself nor
to be able
to be "liquidated" for its assets
mircea_popescu: "I own 5768 shares, which leaves 1472 shares out in
the wild"
knotwork: in
theory it should add up all assets "BTC" owns and divide by number of BTC
that exist
da2ce773: *throogh 3 or more step
trades
knotwork: I suppose in normal acronyms its an attempt
to compute NAVs for everyone
knotwork: It is just a really primitive HTML put out by shell scripts but is all I have made so far as a way for me
to
try
to see waht
the heck is going on with
the various assets
knotwork: or even just use a banker nym and an account per player controlled by
the banker
knotwork: instead
the server would create a nym per player
to use on its end
knotwork: all such
things
though would, just like websites, sacrifice
the player/visitor's ability
to have
their own private key
knotwork: similarly it ought not be hard
to give CoffeeMUD
the ability
to call out
knotwork: I have shell scripts
that IRC bots use
to
talk
to *coin daemons
to do
trade between coin
types for example
knotwork: mostly
though my userbase would be playing from inside some kind of game client, so I would add commands in
to whichever game server
to call out
to finace system
da2ce773: mircea_popescu: it isn't so bad if you don't bind it
to your web-browsers.
da2ce773: mircea_popescu:
the java
test-gui is 'good enough' for most use-cases...
knotwork: and if
they did care, why
then I could add gribble style auth
knotwork: since userbase could give
two shits about security why not IRC?
da2ce773: knotwork: I
think
that it is more-simple
than your gpg app-thing
that you had.
knotwork: Actually also my first attempt
to use Open
Transactions was inside my dealer-bots on IRC
knotwork: that wasn't userbase
that was "broker material" population
mircea_popescu: people in general are barely able
to get simple gpg off
the ground
mircea_popescu: knotwork it's not as much a problem of not being able
to get it working
knotwork: unless all
they know is shell script and HTML
knotwork: Me I use Fedora but
that is pretty similar
knotwork: anyway one of
the builders used Ubunto I believe so likely
the instructions for Ubunto are pretty good
knotwork: though we will soon move
to
that I guess for some of
those newfangled stuff
knotwork: latest version of
their old version,
their new major version number starts needing weird extra newfangled C extentions or something
that normal C++ does not have
knotwork: no wait, it also wants chaiscript oops you have
to get
that from
their git
knotwork: if you are used
to
the autotools build system it is easy
to build
knotwork: anyway, on Ubunto you should just be able
to install prepackaged for ubunto protobuf protocol buffers maybe which it also needs, and build and install ZMQ which likely is not part of Ubunto normal repos, oh and boost which is also in standard repos
knotwork: so it doesnt care what is in
that black box, pull out ZMG substitute email and all OT should maybe need is
to use much much longer
timeouts
to wait for replies
da2ce773: mircea_popescu: it was a joke when knotwork was doing a sync with an account
that had a automated
trading bot.
mircea_popescu: what
the fuck do you do on server end if ppl start sending 2gb lol
knotwork: to OT itself storage and
transport are each encapsulated
knotwork: you just say send
this and it worries about how
knotwork: also ZMQ supposedly handles packeting
the messages etc so you can have a message up
to some huge size like 2 gigs or something
knotwork: or for auto echo of all receipts sent
to client
to also go
to a DHT ?
da2ce773: we use zmq 2.0 not
the 3.0 branch
da2ce773: well anyway, we just pass it over
to zmq and forget about it...
knotwork: oh okay so maybe not layered on
top of
tcp
then