1005900+ entries in 0.644s
iz: and
the only reasons bitcoin exchanges are AML compliant is BECAUSE of
the regulation of USD
iz: you're saying "no regulation
to bitcoin" while
touting
that bitcoin exchanges are AML compliant..
MrTiggr: all
the more reason for due diligence
iz: they don't have any regulations
they need
to follow at all
iz: for bitcoin investment companies
that DON'T deal in cash and only in bitcoins
iz: only because
they
trade real money, and use
the regulation
that real money provides
iz: for
trading real money
MrTiggr: ?? and
they would have been raepd for not being AML compliant
iz: putting a website up on a VPS somewhere
that he bought w/ bitcoins
MrTiggr: <iz>
the problem are
the bitcoin exchanges not being regulated << how so ?? all
the major exchanges are subject
to AML etc
iz: not
that bitcoin itself isn't regulated
iz: the problem are
the bitcoin exchanges not being regulated
copumpkin: the protocol doesn't require regulation, but
the people using it might
MrTiggr: De-Centralized currency is one of
the core
tennant of bitcoin
iz: bitcoin wasn't founded for
that
copumpkin: I don't
think bitcoin was originally founded "for"
that
iz: deserve
the robbing
they are going
to get
MrTiggr: regulation i don
thtink is
the answer... i agree
there is aproblem, but im kinda sick of bitcoiners blaming
their own lack of due diligence on
the "missing regulatory component" for which bitcoin was originally founded
copumpkin: "you should have called up
the police office
to make sure
they had sent someone, before letting him in"
iz: and
the people who don't call
the main police office
to check on
the badge numbers
to make sure
they are real cops
iz: do you
think it should be okay for people
to dress up like police officers and go around
to people's houses
iz: and
the reason
that doesn't happen so much in
the real USD markets
MrTiggr: it happened due
to lack of consumer diligence imho
iz: but it happened because
there is no regulatory agency
MrTiggr: so... you are defending
the people who blindly "invested" bitcoin in .. lets say for arguments sake .. a glbse stok .. with out checking who was managing
the funds
iz: an investment scam vs a real investment opportunity are hard
to
tell
the difference between, without
there being some sort of regulatory agency
MrTiggr: lets not confuse casual -otc bitcoin
trading with .. ponzi or other investment
iz: yeah,
that's like.. we're discussing if children should be able
to drink alcohol or not, and you are like "well.. i
think it all depends on if it's vodka or whiskey"
MrTiggr: but its hard with "real cash"
too
MrTiggr: investments (like glbse .. which is what i imagine you are referring) are not
the same
thing
copumpkin: it just determines how easy it is
to prove
that you gave it
to
them
copumpkin: whether bitcoin is equivalent
to cash is completely irrelevant
to
the legality/morality of
the issue
MrTiggr: in
the same breath - i personally do everything i can
to help bitcoiners make
the best decision about
their
trades
copumpkin: that's got little
to do with
the actual crime
iz: MrTiggr: investments don't care how you give
them
the money
copumpkin: cash boils down
to whether you can prove
that you gave
the money
to
the person
MrTiggr: not as far as i am concerned - i equate bitcoin
to cash ... im not giving my dollar bills
to anyone i dont
trust ... neither should a bitcoiner
copumpkin: in fact, I have seen gun advocates say
that
iz: or
the word on
the street
copumpkin: it seems you could make arguments about someone not being strong enough
to resist robbers
iz: you just have
to
take
their word for it
copumpkin: is
this purely about not using violence
to obtain someone else's property?
iz: how can you
tell what is a real investment company.. and what is a scammy investment company?
iz: if
there is no regulatory agency
copumpkin: MrTiggr: what if a con artist lies his way into your building and
takes money from your vault?
iz: should it be legal for a company
to carry on business defrauding grandmas?
MrTiggr: but he was stoopid enuf
to do it
MrTiggr: in fact, happened
to my grandpa
iz: what if your grandma spends all of her retirement money buying a new spaceage
TV
that cooks dinner for her
MrTiggr: the point i am making is
that
there is a level of responsibility
that normal
transactions are held
to, which bitcoiners seem
to
think doesnt apply
iz: they are making
the
transactions intentionally
MrTiggr: if my mate buys a
TV from a stranger with cash and gets ripped
iz: it's not about
transactions with scams
though
MrTiggr: we should provide bitcoiners with
the
tools
to ensure
that
their "cash-like"
transactions can be conducted with
the best possible confidence
copumpkin: do you blame
the victim of fraud on
the victim?
MrTiggr: no chargeback and not really very
tracable
MrTiggr: i am SPECIFICALLY comparing bitcoin
to CASH
copumpkin: because
the defrauded party was dumb enough
to hand over his money?
iz: vs unregulated exchanget and investment companies, like with bitcoin, where most of
them are scams
copumpkin: MrTiggr: are you saying
that "real-world" cases of fraud should not be prosecuted?
iz: it's not
the cash vs bitcoin
iz: no, people shouldn't be able
to do
that with cash, and
that's why
the SEC and regulatory agencies exist
MrTiggr: people should
treat bitcoin with
the same scrutiny
that
they do for cash
transactions
MrTiggr: iz: do you
think ppl should be able
to run ponzi schemes and scam dumbasses out of hundreds of
thousands of regular CASH? .. bitcoin is
the equivalent of cash ... if you blilndly give it
to
the rong person ... its gone dude and its yer own fault
iz: running
to
the cops or
the SEC
to sue or get someone in
trouble for scamming you out of BTC is using
that regulation
iz: or do you
think
there should be regulation
that protects dumbasses from
themselves?
iz: copumpkin: do you
think ppl should be able
to run ponzi schemes and scam dumbasses out of hundreds of
thousands of bitcoins?
copumpkin: that's not
to say I
think one side is as good as
the other, mind you
copumpkin: or, from
the other side, "regulation is good, and we need
to protect dumbasses from
themselves. We must regulate bitcoin"
copumpkin: "I'm against all forms of regulation and government control, except, OH SHIT, PEOPLE ARE BUYING IMMORAL
THINGS WITH BITCOIN. WE MUST BANISH IT FROM
THE EARTH AS GOD EXPECTS"
Chaang-Noi: if
the SEC is scared of BTC im bullish in BTC :)
Chaang-Noi: and really
the SEc going after
this will make
the right wing nuts in
the usa
take a hard look at btc and might even help it
copumpkin: due
to all
the fraudulent unregulated securities issued on it
copumpkin: well,
the crime was already committed, and
they can claim
that many people were defrauded as a result of
the unregulated exchange operating for so long
Chaang-Noi: but
trading btc and all
that shit? its not going
to be an easy case i bet
Chaang-Noi: now if glbse was a
terrorist operation sure...
Chaang-Noi: but glbse said
they were wrong
to be doing what
they were doing, it just does not add
that headline pop
Chaang-Noi: sometimes
they act
to stop an activity
copumpkin: "yeah, sure, you were hacking up kidnapped hookers for years before, but you appear
to have stopped, so I guess you're good. Sorry for
the unpleasant chase!"
Chaang-Noi: i wonder if
they will still go after
them or just walk away
Chaang-Noi: also i wonder what
the SEC will do now
that glbse closed down
copumpkin: I dunno, all I know is
that for a while he had a form up and
then he
took it down
copumpkin: Chaang-Noi: it proved
to be
too
technically challenging
jurov: coinbr was updated, check it.. just few kinks
to iron and we can do official announcement
BTC-Mining: I remember calculating it as higher
than
that however.