932800+ entries in 0.687s
mircea_popescu: this is pretty much
the only way
to judge, in my eyes. I don't care about absolutes, i wish
to conserve
the same percentual value.
bgupta: can't forget
the effect
that slavery had on
the economy as well.
mircea_popescu: is comparable
to
the relative preminence of someone with one solidus in 40 ad
mircea_popescu: i guess
the relative preminence of someone with 100k in
the american empire
today
mircea_popescu: having one of
the 100 coins in an empire makes you like a guy having1 of
the 100 coins in another empire.
mircea_popescu: the 55 dollar per gram is misleading.
they had much less gold available at
the
time, and different economy.
bgupta: however one could argue
that since 1 solidus was exchangable for 1000 denarii..
then perhaps one can calculate it as worth 1000 x 6.8 grams of silver.
bgupta: err 62 solidus
to
the roman lb or 5.5 g each
mircea_popescu: accounting for
the rarity of gold/economy differential and everything... i just came up with 100k
mircea_popescu: if something like
that happens again,
the local scrip is backed by bitcoin instantly.
bgupta: btw how did you calculate
that 1 solidus is worth 100,000 usd in
today's
terms? (Yeah I was
thinking 10 years)
bgupta: but it has a long way
to go between now and
then.. (which is not as impossible as many would want us
to believe.)
bgupta: I was
thinking
that once
the market cap of btc inc. reaches high enough we could see certain countries starting
to back fiat with btc, in which case we'd start
to see
this sort of stuff changing.
bgupta: Ok one egg, is a bit.. mmm.. hyperbolic.. you can't really even buy one egg with fiat, in most markets. (They are
typically sold by
the dozen)..
The point is bitcoin isn't rally a good currency right now, but it does have attributes which could allow it
to become one..
mircea_popescu: i
think more of an exploratory "what is bitcoin really"
mircea_popescu: does not make
the currency "that which is exchanged for one egg"
mircea_popescu: that currency slowly made it's way into
the hands of
the poor, in ever smaller denominations, sizes and metals, silver, copper,
tin
mircea_popescu: athens used it
to settle large scale
trade, again much like btc is used
today.
mircea_popescu: the greeks were split on
the
topic. sparta banned all currency
bgupta: what was
the original currency unit?
bgupta: Really, I
thought
they paid soldiers in salt, wine and food?
mircea_popescu: the original currency unit was worth in
the $100k range in
today's
terms.
bgupta: I'm saying
that currencies were created
to solve
the barter systems lack of a of double coincidence of wants. All
this wealth,
technical progress and all
that have been able
to be created as a result are just efects of
the creation of currency, and not its basic purpose.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, in most of
the world eggs are primarily bought on notebook credit
mircea_popescu: i dunno
that many people care about
this in a discussion of "a good handgun"
mircea_popescu: while some handguns are more apt for
that purpose
than others
mircea_popescu: but you mean by currency something
that's just a very edge case of what a currency may do
mircea_popescu: i guess someone could
trade about 3 semi
tractor
trailers' load of eggs
bgupta: right, hence my arguement
that it's not really a great currency… but it doesn't have
to be
to be a great
thing
to invest in.
mircea_popescu: but
that does not mean
that your google shares aren't what your eggs are ultimately bought with
mircea_popescu: i would
think
that's exactly it. buying btc is buying shares in
the new world order.
bgupta: So in
that case, buying btc, seems akin
to buying shares in
the new world order. And if we aren't ever envisioning a future where one can buy eggs with btc, (even when 1 btc is worth a wheelbarrow full of fiat)
there is a problem. We'll need (and probably will) solve
the blockchain spam problem.
mircea_popescu: i imagine
the way it'd work out in practice is you sell out some satoshi for a wad of zimbabew dollars or w/e
mircea_popescu: once btc reflects its
true value (ie, fiat M3 / btc m3) you can pretty much count
that forever more you'll get an egg for 3 satoshi or w/e
that works out
to
mircea_popescu: bgupta i wouldsay
the 500 eggs for 1 btc is mostly an effect of btc price being de facto supressed
through ignorance/it being new
bgupta: If
that happens, I'd say btc has graduated into a good currency.
BitHub: i'm a fan of positive reinforcement
trolling
bgupta: So right now 1btc buys about 500 eggs. Assuming
that btc/usd ratio keeps going up
to say 1000 in a few years. does
that mean I'll be able
to buy 5000 eggs with 1btc, or are we expecting massive inflation
to kick in, in USD
terms, and btc prices
to stabilise out?
bgupta: You'd be surprised how many
that is.. with
the gov't borrowing money like mad.
mircea_popescu: pretty much
the only us citizens
that like
taxes are
those who get a net benefit from govt servicing.
Diablo-D3: Ukto: seriously, what
the fuck is with people
Ukto: Diablo-D3: i
think
they have been claimed.
bgupta: (IE: Unfairly means more
than
their equivalent neighbor)
mircea_popescu: or moreover, of
the incredibly brokedness of socialism as a form of govt.
mircea_popescu: (tho
the fact
that
the mob defeats socialist states everywhere, from russia
to iran and etc) is pretty good proof of
the superiority of
the system
bgupta: well I can't see it happening in
the US, basically
the US "mass" citizens will pay
taxes if
they get what
they
think
they want, and
they don't feel
that
they are being
taxed unfairly.
mircea_popescu: this amply proves why central socialist govt is worse
than
the mob
KRS1: once capitalist, i
think we are now just crapitalist
mircea_popescu: there's currently a
trolling
technique called "swatting".
benkay: but it's drinking
time.
benkay: i don't know where
to even start man.
benkay: police states are pretty cheap for
those at
the
top relative
to
the rents extracted
bgupta: If all of a sudden income
tax was optional..
the central gov't would have NO revenue. , and services would revert
to neighborhood vigilante services..
think "paying
the mob for protection".. I can't see
this happening…
mircea_popescu: this idea
that we're all equal and so forth is pernicious.
benkay: except for
those
times when all of chicago burns down
mircea_popescu: they burn,
they get redeveloped into houses for rich people,
the poor get
to live in as servants
benkay: which is fine most of
the
time
benkay: right and we let
the poor parts of
the city burn
mircea_popescu: anyway. if greek remaining bits are any indication, political debate would move
to include a large chunk of "let me
tell you how much i've donated"
benkay: tiberiusiv i don't understand
the analogy
mircea_popescu: so within a few weeks
tsa would break down and go away/
mircea_popescu: bgupta i would absolutely not pay a cent for
the
tsa say
mircea_popescu: if you propose paying for no service however,
that ain't happening and is going away.
bgupta: but individuals would just hope
that everyone else pays… it would quickly break down
mircea_popescu: why would anyone be
the sucker paying for restaurant meals ?
benkay: bgupta: you pay
the police
to keep
the rabble off of your lawn
mircea_popescu: bgupta
that is
the problem of
the people getting paid. klet
them explain it.
bgupta: why would anyone choice
to be
the one sucker who is paying
taxes. What is
the incentive?
benkay: so. how do handle mob in post forced
tax environment?
BitHub: putting my money
to good use and
tracking
the progress of it
BitHub: i'd actually be looking foward
to paying
taxes
mircea_popescu: basically he's saying "hehehe, i can shelter from
tax,
therefore you should
tax
those who can't do it more"
bgupta: wait, you are arguing
that fundamentally (assuming one believes
that governments need revenue
to provid basic services)
that
there is a reason
that
the poor should be
taxed a higher percentage of
their income
than
the rich? (Basically Buffett's arguement is
that current
tax system is regressive and
that he was being
taxed less
than his secretary)
mircea_popescu: "more
taxes" won't
touch buffet any more
than
the current
taxes do. however, it WILL make whatever business less profitable, and
thus less able
to produce "nouveau riches"
benkay: how does
the system where you don't have socialism work when you have so many poor,
though?
mircea_popescu: then politics works as an attempt by
the billionaire
to use
the mob[ile vulgus] as a sort of scarecrow
to keep
the middle class
threading water.