931800+ entries in 0.69s
mjr_: people who saw cnbc yesterday or
the day before...they can't even get into gox for like 10 days maybe
mjr_: there is another goxlag
that we don't measure quite as well
mjr_: lol Bugpowder: you set
them at 119 or 117?
Bugpowder: I
thought it got crazy before I went
to bed
mjr_: the victors write
the history books
mjr_: from my perspective, what survives is what should have survived, a little
tautological i know, but
that is how
the world works
mjr_: VHS was more fit
than BetaMax, even
though it was worse as a
technology
troc: hmm at least SMTP has rfcs, suppose we are rehashing what was said after
the fork.
mjr_: its survival of
the fittest, but
that doesn't always mean pure ideas,
that can mean influence
mjr_: but even so, someone releases
their version and it works until it doesn't...issues arise and people vote with
their feet and dollars
mjr_: TradeFortress:
true, and i
think
that should be where it goes
mjr_: but
this cuts
to
the core of my point, everyone relies on software developers, unfortunately
the software doesn't spring fully formed from
the sea foam
mjr_: TradeFortress: i agree...but in a capitalistic sense, you can choose what people offer or make your own, i
think for long
term adoption backward compatiblity is of course necessary
mjr_: TradeFortress: you can create your own version
that gives you what you like about v3 and make it compatible...this is my point, software is not a right
gribble: Error: Failed
to retrieve data.
Try again later.
TradeFortress: mjr_ I still don't like how I can't use v0.3 or something. and not be able
to get on
the bitcoin network
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 135.50000, Best ask: 135.84774, Bid-ask spread: 0.34774, Last
trade: 135.30003, 24 hour volume: 119771.38207326, 24 hour low: 103.75000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 120.69450
mjr_: in
the future
that will happen...but you will still have issues where people rely on software and are beholden
to
the developers of said software
TradeFortress: answer: nothing would have happened, 10% of
the users would be unable
to
trust
transactions until
they upgrade.
mpexbot: ThickAsThieves: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact
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TradeFortress: mircea_popescu,
that is a problem when
there's really only one bitcoin client
mjr_: does
that not change
the payout spectrum in your favor
to do it
mjr_: hey, you can ask me
to lend
to whoever you want...if i do it...my fault
mircea_popescu: now
the dems don't want
to sell
their own houses wives and daughters
to pay for it
mircea_popescu: TradeFortress ok but it creatges
this pernicious "listen
to us and we'll insulate you ferom marketplace effects". it's how clinton destroyed
the us banking sector
mjr_: and we will see banks
that use bitcoins, deposit insurance, chargebacks etc
TradeFortress: mircea_popescu, I'm guessing owner bet a lot of coins on
them shipping.
mjr_: TBH i
think
that most people cannot face
this brave new world
mjr_: well,
they
tried
to game
the system
ChaangNoi: mp btc guild pays for orphand blocks, he lost
the 1k oins not
the miners
TradeFortress: so
tons of drama over betsofbitco.in marking BFL shipping apr 1 as draw :P
mjr_: i wonder...what would have happened if
they hadn't...hard
to
tell at
this point
mjr_: a choice for
the status quo
mjr_: well...i
think
there is always a choice, but i also
think most are
too stupid
to make one, but no choice is a choice
mjr_: why not force old version
to upgrade
mjr_: i
thought
the roll back was stupid...why go
to
the incorrect chain
mjr_: not
that
this was
the case
mjr_: so if someone releases something
that is obviously borked
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 137.10522, Best ask: 137.98997, Bid-ask spread: 0.88475, Last
trade: 137.98997, 24 hour volume: 119771.38207326, 24 hour low: 103.75000, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 120.69450
mjr_: also...at
the end of
the day, miners, and all bitcoin users do rely on
the software used
to run
the network
bgupta: and when deepbit got close
to 50% a bunch of miners left
troc: even reddit is aware of
the dangers of
too few and big pools
mjr_: now with asics i
think you will see more solo mining
mjr_: specifically
that pool
mjr_: and everyone who chooses
to use a pool
mjr_: but at
the end of
the day, "the market decides" and it decides
to follow gavin i guess
mircea_popescu: i am just
trying
to delineate
the heavier problems we face,
mjr_: and
they earn
the right
to do so by having
the mining power
mjr_: but
that is
their choice
mjr_: i don't know,
they could have been sheepishly following
mjr_: but i
think
they
took into account
the fact
that a fork could have damaged
their long
term gains into account
mircea_popescu: so it still doesn't escape
the central planning issue.
mjr_: so in
the end, whoever can convince
the most people will change
the course of history...par for
the course
mircea_popescu: the btc guild guy made a choice
that cost his miners ~1-2k btc
mjr_: i just mean
that you could have lobbied for
the longer chain...or miners who wanted
to continue
that path could have
mircea_popescu: you have
to presume some choice was made. i have my doubts
those heads were working.
mjr_: well...the fact
that
the choice remained with
them means
that you may get centralization in effect, but not in cause
mircea_popescu: mjr_ it's not
they could have.
they in fact did. (and not
the bitcoin foundation either,
that's an irrelevant little scam by now)
mjr_: if
the bitcoin foundation could have unilaterally negated
the fork...centralization
mircea_popescu: mjr_ but
to make
that work in
the case at hand, parish head
told people
to vote for x,
they did.
mjr_: or you could say
that 51% of voters colluded
to elect
the candidate
they prefer
mjr_: yes,
that is
the difference, but also...you could say
that everyone buying bitcoins is "colluding"
to raise
the price, all our actions are working
towards
the same goal
mjr_: collusion is not
the same as centralization
though
the effects can be similar
mircea_popescu: but logically
thinking : bitcoin is sold as being decentralised, right ?
bgupta: mircea_popescu: You are correct I don't understand.. I only understand
the
technical issue with
the fork, not
the economic or social implications.. is
there a more
theorough analysis out
there?
TradeFortress: about 400 btc
total was
the withdrawls I know of, but I'm not sure how much coins were lost in bitcoinrain
TradeFortress: srsly, "You will get
the bitcoins
tommorow",
tommorow -> site down, 'hacked'
mircea_popescu: bgupta i agree
that a correctly functioning bitcoin would have been fucked in
that situation, and so "good"
that it was broken.
mircea_popescu: Schadenfreude probably in
the millions from what people were saying. no idea.
Schadenfreude: Any estimate on how much money was lost in
the brazil incident?