931700+ entries in 0.698s
mjr_: we need layer 7
to emerge
mircea_popescu: Italian police have seized a record (EURO)1.3 billion ($1.7 billion) in cash and property from a single person, a Sicilian alternative energy entrepreneur alleged
to have close
ties
to
the Mafia.
mjr_: not sure about
their implementation, but
the idea is sound...same as
trading "demand deposits" for cash
mircea_popescu: that
thinfg is becoming a study in creative ways
to fail
mjr_: hold money in bitcoin,
transfer money with bitcoin, withdraw in local currency
mjr_: that is why
the ATM is so important
mjr_: what difference does it make if i hold 4 5's or one
twenty
mjr_: and as far as
this distinction between fiat and bitcoin
mjr_: and see what happens with some skin in
the game
mircea_popescu: bgupta fucking fate of doom,
trying
to protect bitcoin from attacks.
mjr_: my point is
this, it is
too early and most are
too stupid
to understand
bgupta: ok maybe
their little
toes
mjr_: so i don't
think
that is an apt analogy
mircea_popescu: so why bother with bitcouin, if you wanna pyramid go
trade moonrocks.
mjr_: they were
trading
tulip futures and options on
tulips
that had never been created and never would
mjr_: yes...but
tulips didn't actually exist
bgupta: I
tend
to agree,
that
there is a share of people out
there buying
this shit with money
they can't afford
to lose. Including So EU folks. However, I do wonder if "real money" will at some point also chose
to dip
their
toes in
the water?
mjr_: but
this is bootstrapping 101
mircea_popescu: if all
they do with
their bitcoin is
try and resell it ...
mircea_popescu: and
this is why
the entire adoption
thing is so important.
mjr_: signifigant,
though each person did something minor
mjr_: that is a hundred million dollars more in
the bitcoin economy
mircea_popescu: people with a clue priced out of
the market by
the lemming mania isn't quite as great,
mjr_: but
this is what i was saying...if everyone
tomorrow says "i heard of
this
thing called bitcoin, i will get 1 bitcoin" and
there are a million of
them
mircea_popescu: there is no point discussing events and externalities and whatever else. fuck
them over, it will.
gribble: There are currently 41174385 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 10050755.7489 USD in
total. | Data vintage: 0.0106 seconds
mircea_popescu: that's not
the point
tho.
the point is
that people are buyingsomething
they can't afford and haven't researched on
the unfounded hope
that it will "go up more".
mjr_: they are not a large part, but as a group
they make up a large portion
mircea_popescu: this is just a bunch of poor and desperate people who are unemployed and stuck with
their computer in a barely furnished apartment
mjr_: every person buying one bitcoin not only gets one bitcoin
they also create a positive externality
mjr_: and i agree...i'm just saying
that
this is
the network effect in action
mircea_popescu: whereas
there's much larger ones painting a diff picture.
mircea_popescu: i understand what you're saying but i
think you're focusing on relatively small signals
mircea_popescu: the market cap hasn't been
the limiting factor since mid feb.
mjr_: and creating a platform for
the next person
to see
that it now makes sense for
them
mjr_: furthering
the rise
mjr_: phenomena where
things
that weren't possible become possible
mjr_: from
this low level base speculation
mjr_: i may not be a long
term believer
mjr_: i now own a bitcoin...i am a part of
the bitcoin economy
mjr_: huh?
that doesn't follow
mircea_popescu: by
that logic every
time i pay a waitress i'm getting married
mjr_: but
the point is
this...critical mass
mjr_: and as it looks like a "sure
thing"
that number will increase
mjr_: so
the possible new speculators is huge
mjr_: point being,
the number of possible adopters is orders of magnitudes higher
than current adopters
mjr_: within
the hour...usually
mjr_: not
the same at all
mjr_: now, as
they learn more and more
Bugpowder: I wish I had confidence
that gox wont explode with my money
mjr_: that is
the fuel available
mircea_popescu: all it
takes is
telling
the few dozen people with money
to stfu already.
troc: shame
there are no stats mtgox demographic
mjr_: and in
this case bitcoin is so small
that
the fuel supply is huge
gribble: A market order
to sell 100000 bitcoins right now would net 7998039.7682 USD and would
take
the last price down
to 36.0500 USD, resulting in an average price of 79.9804 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0044 seconds
mjr_: but
there are emergent phenomena
mjr_: and it also depends on
the demand dropping off way before
the new adopters get in
troc: depends on
the assumption
that it is sheeple day
traders
mircea_popescu: and when
they finally panic
they'll expect actual players
to buy from
them.
Bugpowder: getting
tempted of shaving of a bit
mjr_: "You need
to be a special kind of an idiot
to implement system as slow and fucked up as mtgox's." -reddit
mircea_popescu: in
that a bunch of noobs / "daytraders" in
their own mind are cycling
the same btc among each other at
the exchanges
Bugpowder: I
talked
to someone
that holds 100k last night
jurov: lol,
there's a deposit queue on coinbr,
too
ThickAsThieves: what happens if prices shoots
to 200, and it just holds
Bugpowder: so when do
the real holders start
to cash out
troc: whats
the mtgox queue like now ? >9k ?
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 139.78888, Best ask: 140.00000, Bid-ask spread: 0.21112, Last
trade: 140.00000, 24 hour volume: 122604.42532157, 24 hour low: 104.97500, 24 hour high: 147.00000, 24 hour vwap: 122.42927
mjr_: lol
that is a great point jurov
mircea_popescu: jurov americans are insane about
their little country.
jurov: european exchanges could accept western union from
the US ... hell, even cash in mail would be faster