897400+ entries in 0.596s
usagi: so we could start with everything I
touch
turns
to gold for starters
usagi: Well, everything king midas
touched
turned
to gold, it's clear he was unable
to have sex or even
touch himself
mjr_: how much money would it
take for you
to be ok with never having sex again?
mjr_: if someone could channel and use
the
tons of homeless people we have
towards a purpose
they could become very rich
mjr_: i don't
think i will get
the return i'm looking for
usagi: So
then it's settled. You can give money
to vagrants.
mjr_: so, i
think
that charitability is not incompatible with self interest
usagi: i
thought
those were prizes
mjr_: but
there is a rate we agree upon where we will consider it
to be rat
turd free
mjr_: its not without risk,
the same way
that breakfast cereal is not without rat
turds
mjr_: which is a specific
term
mjr_: which is
the generally accepted best class of investment closest
to risk free
mjr_: yes, but
there is such a
thing as a risk free rate
usagi: no such
thing as risk free :)
mjr_: and who knows what
the risk free rate is in bitcoin land anyway
mjr_: that doesn't
take into account compounding
mjr_: slightly better yield
than namworlds
usagi: deadweasel; I own a couple
thousand shares
mjr_: the main point
that i
took away was
that
the pie is not fixed in size, none of
the
things we have now were found in a forest, we built
them, man creates wealth, not finds it
usagi: But I feel
there are much deeper problems
to
this, homelessness/vagrant problem
mjr_: so a homeless guy is not only an affront
to my sense of decency and aesthetics, its also robbing me of what he could have produced
usagi: The grasshopper was
the one who ordered around
the ants all day, and in
the end
the ants shut him out.
usagi: The parable of
the grasshopper and
the ant is more applicable
to
this, I feel.
mjr_: and due
to
the network effect, we all gain more
than just
the sum of our production
mjr_: so if we establish
that others are necessary, and no man is an island, it stands
to reason
that
the best society is
the one with
the most productive members
mjr_: and produce
things
that you will want
mjr_: point is, unless you feel like by yourself producing everything you will ever want, its a good idea for other people
to have money
mjr_: yes,
trans fat in new york city is another example
deadweasel: usagi not
true, dry counties, local laws prevent LARD from being sold in some places. Raw milk farmer raided in maine last week.
mjr_: you can have millions of dollars in
the bank, if you have no cash and walk into a cash only restaurant, you're broke
mjr_: have you ever been
to a dry county in america?
mjr_: which are
typically created by other people
usagi: I
think it was 'money does not buy happiness'
mjr_: money is not important in and of itself, its
the
things
that money can get you
mjr_: lol, you starve
to death alone and unloved, but shit
tons of gold
usagi: oh, king midas... i read about
that one. I forget
the moral
mjr_: the
tale of king midas was a cautionary
tale,
too many forget
that
mjr_: so...in order for
them
to get
the dollars
that others wanted
to give
them,
they have
to HAVE others with dollars
mjr_: so
they are as rich as
they have done
things
that benefitted peple
mjr_: every dollar
they have, if obtained legally, came from someone else who willingly parted with it in exchange for some service or good
mjr_: how do
the rich get rich
mjr_: think of it
this way
mjr_: but all
the robber barons donated a LOT
to charity
usagi: Well
that was a vastly different
time
mjr_: they seem
to have done ok for
themselves
mjr_: would someone say
they were not capitalist? were
they retarded?
mjr_: which is why
they volunteered
their money
towards
those efforts
mjr_: andrew carnegie, j pierpont morgan, john d rockefeller,
they understood
this
mjr_: but anyway,
the point is
that you want
to build a society
that is great, not a house
that is great
mjr_: to me,
the only place
to live in
the US
usagi: You can see it coming on every streetcorner, and now, along
the streets
mjr_: lol, new york city is
the best
usagi: Stay out of
the city
mjr_: so, bums harrassing me for change is not my idea of a good
time
mjr_: i want
to live in a nice area, surrounded by others who live in a nice area, where i am safe from
threat of
theft and physical harm
mjr_: its
the network effect
mjr_: people need
to see
the broad view of value, understand
that no one wants
to live in a mansion in a ghetto
mjr_: so far,
this has been
the case
mjr_: if keeping people fed costs less
than hiring a private army
to protect your wealth it is rational
to keep people fed
usagi: it's probably going
to get you killed
usagi: You know, having a heart is probably going
to
turn out
to be a weakness one day, mjr
usagi: I believe it was in albert bartlett's
talk
usagi: Who was it
that said, it is
the right
to
the bathroom. When you have
too many people, you no longer have
the right
to use
the bathroom for as long as you want
deadweasel: i don't
think anyone should have guaranteed anything. I
think people should live right, and
that would all
take care of itself.
mjr_: they will
try
to
take people with
them
mjr_: i derive value by not seeing
that
mjr_: its my uncomfortability watching
that
mjr_: but
the issue is not
their starving
usagi: People starve
to death because
they are essentially worthless..
that is
the 95% case
deadweasel: i would feel like real
twat if it
turned out
to be bbqcoin
usagi: I spent a long
time living on
the streets, and all I learned can be summed up as...
the cream always rises
to
the
top, and, you can't keep a good man down
mjr_: but after all, its
the idea
that will survive,
though i have high hopes for bitcoin, it may not be
the ultimate winner
usagi: mjr_ I don't know.
The
truth is, if you look at
the people who end up starving on
the streets a great majority of
them cannot be helped by any system
fiat500: temporarily enough
to destroy it
fiat500: if china seizes asicminer assets,
they can
take over
the network
fiat500: "And it cannot be manipulated, restricted, or seized by any central party (shares
this property with gold). Nobody has special privileges. In
this way, it is very democratic, and very egalitarian. "
mjr_: usagi: i will
take a look at
that
mjr_: i do not want
to live in a society where people are allowed
to starve
to death on
the streets
usagi: If you really want
to understand money, read mises.. "a history of money and banking..." great book
mjr_: i was worried about
the social implications, i
think everyone should have a guaranteed bare minimum quality of life
mjr_: but actually, i
think it makes sense
mjr_: you probably would appreciate
the rest of his posts
too. his posts on "redistribution" are very good
usagi: I
thought he was just some guy who ran satoshidice ^^
usagi: I have a vast and newfound respect for
the man
usagi: Hmm, erik wrote
this?
mjr_: usagi: it was erik voorhee's
talk at bitcoin 22013
mjr_: its almost impossible
to dispute his points because his laying of
the logical framework is concise and clear
usagi: "In absence of a proper education, most assume
that society just arbitrarily decided
to make gold money, and
that any other commodity would have worked roughly as well. "
This ewasn't mircea's
talk
mjr_: usagi:
this is my point, he is reexamining what people
take as already understood, showing it is not understood, and
then enlightening, all while using a great vocabulary and grammar...he is explaining water
to fish
usagi: "And so, much of our lives is spent searching and grasping for something we don’t understand." --
this is very
true. People have $20 in
their pocket for most of
their lives so
they
think
they understand money, and
they really don't.
mjr_: he
typically says what he says in a calm collected way
mjr_: he makes
things
that are not
taught in school seem fresh and relevant, and most importantly understandable
to dumb americans
usagi: Have you read "A History of Money and Banking in
the United States"?
mjr_: if you read what he wrote about bitcoin as money, it was
the perfect piece
to explain bitcoin from a historical financial perspective
usagi: Should probably hire a better PR
though
mjr_: mircea is also in
that group