883200+ entries in 0.584s
ThickAsThieves: i still can't make
the jump
to fiat value being irrelevant
mircea_popescu: only way
to make it appear relevant is
through a leap of faith, aka willing suspension of
thought.
mircea_popescu: this is however vastly irrelevant. squirrels are squirrels and people only matter inasmuch as
they manage
to
treat
that which matters rather
than
that which
they "feel" is "relevant"
ThickAsThieves: calling something irrelevant
to yourself does not make it irrelevant
ThickAsThieves: it may not be relevant
to you, but it is relevant
to most others
mircea_popescu: i disagree
that
the cost of bitcoin in dollars is relevant for anything but bernanke.
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> maybe
there should be a btc-alliance, businesses
that refuse
to accept fiat << yeah.
there is. everything i do.
ThickAsThieves: do you disagree
that fiat leakage lends
to depressing
the fiat value of btc?
mircea_popescu: most of
the economy is NOT goods, and most business cycles are not
tangible in
that snese.
mircea_popescu: but if you divide
the
total money supply
to
the
total goods supply you'll get 85`000 dollar apples.
mircea_popescu: i get
that everyone has
this personal "o, itams" approach
to finance,
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves
there is
totally btc business cycles. dice corp
takes in profits, distributes
to shareholders.
emptyeddepended: that's a huge step. i see another beneficial aspect of bitcoin, but yet
there aren't enough merchants. i live in europe and a wire
transfer
to china
to purchase goods is very delayed and expensive. bitcoin could do
that in ease..
ThickAsThieves: however a refusal
to
take fiat is also a refusal
to convert fiat into btc if you are paying out more btc
than fiat as a company
ThickAsThieves: any service company
that pays employees in btc is a start
emptyeddepended: look at AM.
that's
the closest
thing we have right now, i'd say.. and i was happy
to realize
that. buy btc,
trade stocks in btc, a whole company born
through btc and
they even sell btc related products for btc -- but if you substract mining (and financial instruments),
there is nothing even close
to
that
ThickAsThieves: maybe
there should be a btc-alliance, businesses
that refuse
to accept fiat
ThickAsThieves: it needs
to be more convenient
to use your btc as btc
than fiat
Namworld: The
tax man should focus on property
taxes for
the public infrastructure servicing said properties. And luxury
tax on various goods. Goods are already
taxed differently based on what purpose
they serve.
ThickAsThieves: you either need layers and layers
to float an economay above
the leaks
mjr_: the person who could do
this best is a farmer i
think
mjr_: fuck
the
tax man lol
mjr_: which is not
trivial but def possible
mjr_: hence my point about getting a complete business cycle
to operate in btc
mjr_: and for
the foreseable future
mjr_: i mean, if a bar COULD say, one jameson rocks is .05 bitcoin, now and
tomorrow and next week
mjr_: i meant it is cool
that someone is being a base
mjr_: he has not changed registration cost except upwards and
that was not related
to fiat
to btc rate
mjr_: who has fixed his prices in btc
terms
mjr_: with
the exception of mircea_popescu
ThickAsThieves: not only do you need a
totalyy btc business cycle, you need layers of it, and it probably boils down
to some root fundamental i'm missingh
mjr_: so my purchasing power is dependant on
that fiat reflection
mjr_: well, my point is
that as much as people
tout
the "acceptance" of bitcoin
mircea_popescu: this has little
to do with bitcoin, is just how fiat reflects itself in it.
mjr_: not
trivial by any means
mircea_popescu: the FIAT PRICE of bitcoin is dependent on
the flow of fiat.
mjr_: if you could get a complete business cycle
to work in bitcoin
mjr_: hopefully
that is short
term
ThickAsThieves: and if
the amount coming in, is less
than
the amount going out, only speculators can keep
the price up
ThickAsThieves: but, yes,
the money moving off exchanges is a decent
theory,
Namworld: Because
they don't understand Bitcoin. Cause Bitcoin works in misterious ways.
mjr_: in
that it
takes slightly less
than 10 minutes
mjr_: TBH
there is a slightly increased inflationary effect
mjr_: i always wonder why
they
think more coins will be produced
Namworld: TaT, I
thought
the ASIC kills price
theory went like
this: 1. ASICs! 2.
TONS more hashing! 3.
TONS more Bitcoins produced! 4.
TONS of price dropdown! 5. I was smart
to buy at 250. It's all
those mean ASIC companies which dropped
the price.
mjr_: cuz
they drive demand
ThickAsThieves: the joke being
that what good is a ponzi without new bagholders?
mjr_: ie.
they keep getting more and more bitcoins
mjr_: silk road (pretend
they are
taking
the money) is a net buyer of bitcoins
ThickAsThieves: hence why i always say
to everyone
that
the best
thing for bitcoin, on every level,
mjr_: true...you can look it at it
that way
mjr_: the way i
try
to look at it, is "is
this company a net buyer or a net seller? if so, do
they hold coins, or get rid of
them immediately"
mjr_: yeah, you could say
that
they are a dumper as well
ThickAsThieves: ASIC company unloads BTC
to buy new ASICs and new
tech
Namworld: I know
the concept of getting paid when requesting someone's debt
to you
to be paid might sound... foreign
to Bitcoiners. But just request and see.
ThickAsThieves: the BTC used
to buy ASICs is not coming from new fiat,
ThickAsThieves: part of
the ASIC kills
the price
theory goes like
this
Namworld: To whoever is selling BTC-BOND under 0.01... just mail me
to redeem
mjr_: and
the exchanges are dominated by large dumpers
mjr_: at least retail (omg, what is
this bitcoin stuff, i wanna buy)
mjr_: but i
think as buyers leave exchanges
pankkake: keep in mind bitcoin has like 8% inflation now -
there is no reason
to expect
the price
to rise all
the
time
mjr_: that would partially lend itself
to a hedging strategy, which would require either futures or options...
mjr_: i mean, it would be in
their interest
to do so
mjr_: they should
take
their role, as a central flow of bitcoin and use it
to stabilize
pankkake: yes, I
think
that bitpay's way of selling all
the
time is pushing
the price down
Namworld: Hey hey hey... I pay 0.01 each on
those bonds
mjr_: the stronger
the downward pressure
mjr_: so
the more people start "accepting" bitcoin
mjr_: anyway, my
theory is
that bitpay, coinbase, and other payment processors are
the ones lowering
the price
Namworld: I do hold some. But I manage
the S.DICE passthrough =/