863700+ entries in 0.615s
kleeck: In my experience,
the wording is always important. It frames
the expectation of any given interaction.
Anduck: so i
think it's perfectly clear we're
talking about kits when we
talk about units
Anduck: fractal: but everyone knows
that a device or unit means a kit since
they only sold kits
mircea_popescu: lol. i guess
this is how a good bet works, it's
totally clear
to everyone except it doesn't match.
Anduck: all
the units and devices shouldve been "kit" so
there wouldn't be
this semantics mess
Anduck: the statement is absolotely clear in my eyes, except
there should've been better words
fractal: Anduck:
The word 'KIT' is
totally non-existant in
the bet languge
Anduck: kleeck: if one
thinks
that unit/device is not a kit (in
this bet)
fractal: Anduck: yes. What
the bet actaully SAYS matters more
then statement -- I specifically came in here 2 days ago
to ask mircea_popescu specifics about
this
kleeck: Don't
the words comprise
the bet?
Anduck: kleeck: i am asking
that is
the actual wording/semantics more important
than
the bet itself
fractal: Anduck: Which means
there needs
to be a 400Gh unit delivered
that provides 400Gh in a single 'DEVICE', or 'UNIT' as per language in
the bet.... punin has stated
that
they are shipping additional hardware "(until we have boards and software
that delivers 25GH)" --- 16H-cards less
then 25Gh means
they failed
to produce a 400Gh unit
Anduck: if
the _bet_ itself is a clear
thing how it should be understood
Anduck: mircea_popescu: just a question, how much do
the semantics affect
the bet outcome?
mircea_popescu: well
the best i can do for either side atm is
to say we'll see how
this
turns out.
Anduck: but
that was exact quote from
the bet... i'll stop fighting with you now :I
fractal: Anduck: again,
thats not what
the bet says. I'm very sorry.
Anduck: it's only semantics after
the real deal: [20:33:31] <Anduck>
the "promised performance" means
that customers will get
the hashing rate
they ordered at
the energy cost
they were
told it will eat
fractal: Anduck: sorry, be more carfeful next
time when you read
the bet statement.
fractal: Anduck: not according
to mircea_popescu's comments 2 days ago.
fractal: punin: "We're currently shipping 2 H-cards with starter kit (until we have boards and software
that delivers 25GH)"
Anduck: the "promised performance" means
that customers will get
the hashing rate
they ordered at
the energy cost
they were
told it will eat
fractal: Anduck: no
they weren't. no 400Gh unit exists as per punin's admission --- also,
thats not what
the statement says.
Anduck: and
the bet was about
that
fractal: Anduck: which means
the bet is a NO.
fractal: Anduck: sorry for you, but
the language in
the statement disagrees with you.
fractal: Anduck: mircea_popescu himself stated
that it needs
to be 400Gh AND under 400W. I have chat logs. it was from 2 days ago.
Anduck: well it's only semantics after
that. Customers got what
they were promised.
Anduck: i also do not see it as a requirement
that someone from
the 5 confirmed deliveries must have ordered exactly 400 ghash kit
Anduck: 400 ghash kit is built from
the h-boards
that are used in
the 25gh kit,
too
Anduck: dude fractal... "Devices must meet advertised performance (25 GH/s unit 40W, 400 GH/s unit 400W)" < as you can see,
the condition is in
the ( and ). and
the condition is met
fractal: Anduck: Words are words. No 400Gh miner exists. mircea_popescu stated
that one has
to be posted
to
the forums as a confirmed delivery.
the only way
this bet can be a yes at
this point is for someone
to lie --
Anduck: i don't really see how one could understand
the wording so wrong
fractal: Anduck:
thats great -- but
thats not what
they bet says
fractal: thats not what
the bet says -- sorry
Anduck: the customer promised performance is met within
the kit
fractal: Anduck: 'Kit" ... not 'KITS' ....
they missed performance. punin has admitted it
Anduck: but what i meant is
that customer gets
the performance he ordered
Anduck: the wording "unit" means "kit" in
the bet
Anduck: fractal:
they were and always were sold as kits
Anduck: there never was going
to be a device of 400 ghash???
fractal: Anduck: No, you're wrong, read
the bet language. a 400Gh 'DEVICE' has
to exist... as in a single unit.
Anduck: and
their kits deliver
the _promised performance_
that
the bet was about
Anduck: they all get what
they were promised
fractal: mircea_popescu:
the bitbury architecture is modular -- inside
the 400Gh miner case,
there is a M-board with 16 slots on it -- each M-board is only hashing around 20Gh, as per punin's admission. ...
therefore
the maximum hashrate inside a single self-contained unit, or device, is 320Gh.
mircea_popescu: how do you do
the math coming out
that 400gh is impossible ?
fractal: mircea_popescu: can you fwd a link for
that? nobody on
the forums has a single board above 25Gh..
they're all running around 19-20Gh.
fractal: mircea_popescu: If noone posts evidence of a 400Gh unit
then
the bet is a NO. correct?
fractal: punin has admitted
the hardware is falling short on performance, and is shipping additional hardware
to make up for it.
there is a lot of discussion on bitbet. If you do
the math, -- it makes it imporssible for 400Gh unit
to hit specs.
zoinky: too many
technicalities
TradeFortress: Graet,
that's
technically correct, it's just part of
the demo.
fractal: so,
there needs
to be at least 5 reports, and one of
them has
to at least show a working, self-contained 400Gh unit?
Graet: CoinLenders is a website
that offers (and keeps
track of) bitcoin loans, and also offers credit ratings / ID verifications. We also plan on additional features over
time.
Graet: hmm need
to edit "support" page What is CoinLenders?
TradeFortress: Graet,
the same way you should
think about a " fictional fantasy stock market simulation" or a site
that "takes no responsibility"
mircea_popescu: fractal afaik
the one report was of one guy doing 60gh at 54 watts
fractal: trying
to see if
this bet will resolve no... it looks like punin missed performance specs and is
trying
to ship additional hardware
to make up for it
Graet: well since i deposited coins
the site has changed
to have a disclaimer about nothing being real and now its a "demo" not sure what
to
think/ask atm
TradeFortress: Graet, go
to bed (I should
too), look at what has changed
Rulother: Frankly I couldn't see a way
to
truly debate
the acquisition without any sort of evidence
Graet: i was just going
to bed when i noticed changes
mircea_popescu: supposedly if he affirms
the oldest btc business is bad
that makes his shit fine.
mircea_popescu: Rulother it's funny how he simply went
through
the scammer argument list.
Graet: gotta say "demo instance" makes me want
to withdraw my coins
TradeFortress: mircea_popescu, ok, I guess I did a bad job explaining
the changes cuz you don't get it
mircea_popescu: provide software for people
trying
to run
their own bonds ?
mircea_popescu: guy destroyed
the leaked us no fly list, among a bunch of other stuff.
total mole.
mircea_popescu: At a Chaos Computer Club event in August 2011, Daniel Domscheit-Berg announced its preliminary launch and invited hackers
to
test
the security of
the OpenLeaks system, as a result of which
the CCC criticized him for exploiting
the good name of
the club
to promote his OpenLeaks project and expelled him from
their club, despite his lack of membership.
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if labcoin holders realize
that no single one of
them has 39.5btc
to make orders like
these
pankkake: that would be shareholders buying shares
the money
the gave
to buy shares
pankkake: "I
think people are missing
the significance of a 50% div payout. Most people will reinvest it into ACtM and
that will give
the share price much needed buying pressure and stabilise
the stock at a reasonable level.
jurov: i see
the mp's anatomy in
the very end of first page
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves wash
trading, for
the wash
trading part.
ThickAsThieves: is
there a finance
term for
this specific
type of manipulation? where you sell something,
then use
the same money
to buy up your own
thing and run
the price up and up
mircea_popescu: i wonder if
the girl's post irked
the scammer so now he's going
to push his scamset
to 5 just
to prove how very wrong we all are.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves anyway, it's especially good because it's rare for a month-old article
to compete well with year+ old articles.
mircea_popescu: i used
to
think if you use random ip w/o history of search
they jsuit give you "the" results