863500+ entries in 0.59s
jurov: then
that's an unit, imho... but as nothing such was actually delivered, it's undecidable
Anduck: doesn't matter how many m-boards or h-boards are needed for
the performance of
the mining unit
jurov: so you will get one box with
two mainboards for original price?
fractal: Anduck:
that's irrelevant
to
the bet language
Anduck: everyone gets
the hashrate
they paid for. and
the hashrate will be made within
the power usage promised
fractal: jurov:
there needs
to be a 400Gh UNIT -- which doesn't exist
fractal: jurov:
they're compensating. and
thats great... But
the bet doesn't say
that
jborkl: jurov:
they are shipping 400gh
that draws 350w
Anduck: jurov: you pay for
the 400 gh and you get
the 400 gh
jurov: Anduck: if you bought 400gh for some amount of money and
then you'd found out you have
to buy more hardware
to get 400gh
fractal: Anduck:
The best doesn't say 'If
the 400Gh miner only mines at 380Gh'
they can ship more hardware and its a yes
fractal: Anduck:
Thats not what
the bet says
Anduck: fractal:
that was
the advertised hardware...
the bet wasn't about advertised hardware. it was about advertised performance. 400gh for 400 watts. people ordered a kit which produces
that and
they get what
they ordered
jurov: i
think if
they don't ship more boards as a kit
to fullfill
the 400gh,
then it's clearly false
mircea_popescu: mpoe-pr "lol yknow eventually
there's gonna bet a channel dedicated
to debating bitbet wording"
fractal: mircea_popescu: no, i'm not..... can both sides agree
to cancel
the bet?
fractal: Anduck: A 400Gh unit with "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for
total of 256 chips" was advertised
jurov: if anyone ordered
that, he will receive 1 board or more?
Anduck: fractal:
they didn't meet
the advertised hardware amount. but
they meet
the advertised performance by far!!
fractal: Anduck:
Thats not what was advertised
Anduck: 400 gh kit includes enough h-boards
to make 400 gh miner
Anduck: the bet wasn't about
the amount of hardware delivered... it was about
the kits/units and
thheir performance
jurov: so, are
the kits with multiple h-boards actually sold?
fractal: Anduck:
That's not what
the language in
the bet says
though.... seriously... I'm sorry you weren't more specific
Anduck: the bet was about
the advertised performance,
that be 400gh unit will produce 400gh and it will do it for less
than
the 400 watts
fractal: jurov: Anduck's argument is
that if
they send more hardware for free
then it counts as being part of
the same device
Anduck: jurov: full kits include more h-boards because of
the performance problems with h-boards. but
the unit of 400ghash is 400ghash, dependless of
the amount of h-boards in
the unit/kit/miner
jurov: but
they aren't 400gh yet
fractal: jurov: " Bitfury 400 GH/s Miner – currently hashing at 380 GH/s on 16 cards. " --
thats correct -- punin admitted it missed hashrate specs --
they will fix it in next manufacturing batch, but its impossible
to do
that and ship by sept 1---
Anduck: jurov:
the units/kits will be hashing
the promised hashrate
jurov: "Full kits include a main board, 16 hashing boards, a raspberry pi, and cables
to set up
the miner."
ozbot: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores -
The Genesis Block
ozbot: imgur:
the simple image sharer
Anduck: it's only about
the advertised performance, 400 ghash miner for 400 warrs
fractal: again,
this is only as advertised
fractal: I went
to bitfurystrikesback.com and looked at what was advertised -- I
thought, no way
they'll get 400Gh on
that M-board with 16 cards --
they might hit power -- but I don't
think
they'll get 400Gh out of
that --- I put my money where my mouth is, and I was right--
jborkl: advertised performance, not size or space
taken up as i see it
mircea_popescu: in retrospect i
think
this is absolutely
the first
time a genuine wording problem has come
to fore.
the previous one (on
the bfl specs) was
thoroughly manufactured by dishonest blf.
Anduck: jurov: people ordered 25gh unit (was meant
to be 1 h-board + 1 m-board) but
they were delivered 1 m-board and 2 h-boards instead.. for
the same price.
that was because
the performance of
the single h-board didn't meet
the 25ghash ->
they had
to add another 25gh board in
the kit)
fractal: jborkl: a 400Gh was advertised as "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for
total of 256 chips"" --
this will not be shipped
Anduck: fractal: i don't see why..
the performance is met and it can be proven from
the hashrate@power usage of
the smaller hashrate miners
fractal: jborkl: Its not irrelvant since its in
the bet.... UNIT means a single device
jurov: for
the same price?
jurov: or
they did order and got 2 boxes instead?
jborkl: the word "units" in
the bet is irrevelvant
fractal: Anduck: if i recall logs correctly, mircea_popescu stated a 400gh device would have
to be proven.... i'll have
to check logs again
tho.
Anduck: mircea_popescu:
the
thing bfsb sold
Anduck: mircea_popescu: will
there be needed a 400 gh unit delivered?
jborkl: power is less
than 400 and hash rate is at least 400
fractal: Anduck: No, punin said
they need
to change hardware and it will be done on
the next batch -- but not before september 1
mircea_popescu: jborkl
that's
the stated intention. nobody has yet come forward having received a 400gh order
Anduck: mircea_popescu: it doesn't really matter since
the customers get what
they were promised. and in
the future
they might be able
to
turn
their miners for even powerful miners with software update
jborkl: they bet is a yes
then
fractal: jborkl: yes, but
thats not what
the language of
the bet said.
Anduck: the performance of
the h-boards itself will be most likely fixed by software, still
jborkl: and
they are going
to provie customers with 400 gh as promised for
the 350w draw?
fractal: Anduck:
they can't fit 20h-boards on a 400gh unit..... a 400gh unit can fix 16h-cards maximum.... hence UNIT
Anduck: mircea_popescu:
theyre underhashing most likely due
to
the quality of
the fab and software
Anduck: if bfsb shipped 20 h-boards for
the 400gh unit, it would draw only 360 watts. and it'd provide 400gh
fractal: jborkl:
There is no 400Gh device....
mircea_popescu: why are
they underhashing anyway ? any word from manufacturer ?
jborkl: how many watts is it going
to
take
to do 400gh with said device?
fractal: Anduck:
That is not what was advertised. What was advertised was not met. 400Gh was not achived with
the hardware, so
they had
to re-imburse customers at
their own expense --- I knew
they would miss
these
targets, which is why i bet NO
Anduck: atleast my 68 ghash at 53 W _from
the wall_
kleeck: I
think
there's only one solution
to
this. Duel
to
the death!
Anduck: the 400gh miner performs 400 gh at
the promised watts.
Anduck: and as
the 400 gh units are built from same h-boards as 25 gh units, it's clear
that 400 gh @ 400 watt performance is met like
the 25gh @ 40W is met
fractal: A miner is as advertised ""1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for
total of 256 chips""
fractal: Anduck: No, performance is not met.
The 400Gh miner does not perform 400Gh.
Anduck: the units
that customers get do have
the performance of 25gh at 40 watts max
Anduck: the performance is met.. performance of
the unit: hashrate @ power usage
fractal: Again, 1 unit was advertised as "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for
total of 256 chips"
fractal: Anduck:
they are shipping additional hardware because performance was NOT met
fractal: Anduck:
thats why
they're shipping additional hardware. Why would
they send more hardware
then promised if performance is met?
They woudln't.
Anduck: and
the performance is absolutely met
Anduck: fractal: wasn't about advertised hardware... it was about
the performance
fractal: Anduck: for
the bet
to be yes, "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for
total of 256 chips" has
to exist -- and it doesn't
Anduck: well mircea_popescu.. wasn't
that kinda clear? if
there's no cap of s.dice at mpex, it's same as zero cap
fractal: Anduck: and
the 400Gh miner includes 16 H-bords -- AS ADVERTISED
Anduck: they missed specs of
the h-board but not
the kit/unit/miner
fractal: I hope you can understand
this
fractal: They have
to ship additional hardware SPECIFICALLY Because
they missed advertised specs
fractal: Anduck: No,
they didn't
the units don't hit 400Gh as advertised --
Anduck: the units
that were sold,
they were 25gh unit and 400gh unit
Anduck: fractal:
they didn't deliver
the promised hardware, yes. but
they delivered
the promised performance of
the units
Anduck: mircea_popescu: when s.dice dropped out of MPEX,
the value was considered zero?
fractal: They weren't able
to deliver
this
fractal: UNIT. as in what was advertised -- From
the website " What’s included: 1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for
total of 256 chips"
Anduck: mircea_popescu:
that log you linked is about
the s.dice vs s.mpoe bet?
fractal: Anduck:
Thats not what
the English on
the bet says. It says
the 400 Gh 'UNIT'
kleeck: Does bitbet need an arbiter of justice? I'd love
that role... also
the
title.
Anduck: fractal:
the bet was about promised performance, not about promised hardware
mircea_popescu: kleeck
there's also a very lulzy one on
the forum and here from back in march. some guy named rikur and some other guy
fractal: From
the website " What’s included: 1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for
total of 256 chips"