863000+ entries in 0.63s
ozbot: Blood worms infest Oklahoma
town's
tap water |
The Verge
ThickAsThieves: "The $52.6 billion “black budget” for fiscal 2013, obtained by
The Washington Post from former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, maps a bureaucratic and operational landscape
that has never been subject
to public scrutiny. "
ozbot: ‘Black budget’ summary details U.S. spy network’s successes, failures and objectives -
The Was
toffoo: put all-time and log scale on
that chart and
this year's growth doesn't look all
that extraordinary
gribble: Error: Something in
there wasn't a valid number.
Anduck: but is
there anything
that bet can fall after
that?
Anduck: is
there a ruling about
that yet i was wondering
mircea_popescu: Anduck more likely
to be a yes
than if
they don't get delivered.
Anduck: btw mircea_popescu, about
the bitfury bet... if
those 5 deliveries (25gh unit and 400gh unit) both get delivered
this month (total 5 deliveries atleast), is
the bet "yes"?
fractal: mircea_popescu: I'm pretty confident
that someone will make a 14nm chip
that does over 2Th/sec ... care
to make a BitBet on it?? ;)
fractal: This mining unit contains one HashFast Golden Nonce (GN) 28nm ASIC chip
that performs 400 Ghash/s
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves drop
them a bitbet link see what
they say >D
ThickAsThieves: "HashFast’s Golden Nonce GN ASIC successfully
taped-out yesterday, Wednesday
the 28th, and has been released for 28nm fabrication
to a well-known, leading-edge foundry. More details will follow in next week’s joint press release.
https://hashfast.com/tapeout/"
mircea_popescu: "why do ocean liners work like ocean liners, rather
than like salvage boats ? wouldn't it be better if
they were salvage boats
themselves, rather
than dump salvage boats on
the ocean when needed ?"
mircea_popescu: fractal not really.
they're one
thing, not all
things.
fractal: why do corporations spend like
that? wouldn't it be better if
they became
their own competition, instead of spending more
to acquire competition when it pops up?
jurov: ^last year,
they were here
mircea_popescu: this is why start-ups compete with
them, and successfully.
fractal: mircea_popescu: I
thinking is
that
that Intel is full of smart people, and
they'd be able
to build it for much less
then $500mm.... I could be wrong, of course.
ThickAsThieves: if
they do all
this, and mine 49%, what about
tha halving
mircea_popescu: what costs 100k
to make on b row costs 10mn
to make in hollywood. simply how
these
things work.
mircea_popescu: fractal you're confusing a) shoestring operations with intel and b) cointerra wityh someone
that matters.
ThickAsThieves: <fractal>
they wouldn't attack it,
they'll mine and make profit <<<<
this is bitcoin working as intended
jurov: GPUs are already hitting
the power wall
mircea_popescu: i've rarely met people capable of making others stupid just
through contact, like gmaxwell is. some
talent.
fractal: mircea_popescu: really?
thats way more
then I
thought... Cointerra and others are rumoured
to be spending $5M on masks for
their 28nm chips.... I never
thought it would be such a big jump from $5M
to $500M for 14nm... crazy...!!!!
jurov: sha256 is power dense, it just isn't possible
to
throw 4x more
transistors into
the same space
ThickAsThieves: <fractal>
they wouldn't attack it,
they'll mine and make profit <<<< you realize
this dismantles your points right?
mircea_popescu: there's no way
they can justify half a bn of expenditure.
mircea_popescu: fractal no dude.
they would need, if
they are starting right now, about half a billion in costs.
fractal: they wouldn't attack it,
they'll mine and make profit
pankkake: the only way Intel would
try
to 51% attack
the bitcoin network is by being forced
to do it. it means a lot of lost money on other projects for no gain
fractal: mircea_popescu:
they'd only have
to make a couple hundred chips at 14nm
mircea_popescu: incredible how complex bitcoin really is. no wonder so many people
try
to prey on
the innocent.
jborkl: and I am going
to go pick up a free chip mask at AMD on
the way home
jborkl: ok, I am out of here- my head is going
to explode
ThickAsThieves: cuz chip masks dont cost anything,
they just charge for em
to be mean
fractal: jborkl:
they wouldn't destroy
the network,
fractal: no,
they won't spend anything -- its not like
they're going
to pay
themselves for
the chip mask
jborkl: and destroy
the network and get 0 back
jborkl: so,
they will spend 1 billion by
the
time
they get done fucking around
fractal: mircea_popescu: I dunno,
their CEO was a samgsumg lead designer -- he sounds credible
fractal: they're on 28nm. i
think intel could do better... 2TH at 14nm.
mircea_popescu: ok, im claiming i have a miniaturized woman
that's 2 inches
tall and shits little diamonds.
ThickAsThieves: fractial, why isn't someone 51%ing
the chain right now?
mircea_popescu: your 2th chips eat what, 500 watts per chip ? wehat is
this, 1955 ?
Scrat: babby's first
troll
fractal: even with 2TH chips.
thats only 350 Chips.
fractal: Cointerra is doing 500Gh/chip. 14nm would be around 4
times more efficient, so 2TH, but
they have smarter engineers who could fit
the logic better on
the silicon and unroll more cores.
dub: ok yall getting
trolled
jborkl: not including lost
time on other projects
fractal: mircea_popescu:
their chips would be 10TH/sec each on 14nm.
they'd need 70 chips.
jborkl: They would probably spend 50m
to get
the masks and designs ready
mircea_popescu: they need a 620
TH run delivered
this second, or else a 1.2Ph run delivered in a coupla months.
dub: are we forgetting
the reason nobody wants
to get 50% of
the network?
fractal: mircea_popescu: $5 mil.
tops.
mircea_popescu: fractal do
the math. what'd it
take intel
to 50%
the network right now ?
fractal: the space / resource requirements of full computer mining make it harder
to own
the network
dub: I
thing killing everyone so
they cant die fits better
fractal: jborkl: no, just saying it would be better if no single entity could have an easy
time manufacuring chips
that could attack
the network..... i.e. its easy for Intel
to make 1Th/sec chips and own 50% right away.... but its hard for a signle entitity
to buy and setup 250,000 computers mining in a warehouse
to own 50% right away
mircea_popescu: dude... it's clearly your attempt
to anull 3d printing.
mircea_popescu: this would be equivalent
to saying "let's change death so
that people no longer can get killed by projectiles"
mircea_popescu: let's consider a similar case. if
the 3d printer people could print guns
jborkl: my spelling sucks btw, last
time I will say
that
mircea_popescu: the entire
thing is a ploy
to
try and
take some control back from
the people.
fractal: mircea_popescu: you need more resources
to do
that. only a handful of entities can afford it
jborkl: fractal: you are advocationg cpu mining with a sata and ram? I just want
to clarify
fractal: mircea_popescu:
they still have
to buy chips made by corps now?
mircea_popescu: the only way
to make miners on your system is
to buy parts made by corps.
fractal: mircea_popescu: ok, basically, i suppose state actors have
the most resources, and can centralize mining if
they wished ...
mircea_popescu: fractal more important :
there are dozens of people who can make
their own miners as it is now.
gecko_x2: something is gonna have
to change soon.
fractal: Intel is
the ONLY fab in
the world going
to do 14nm chips --
that practically puts all other ASIC out of business
mircea_popescu: we DO NOT have
the
technoplogy
to make "Average computers"
mircea_popescu: we already have in private hands
the
technoklogy
to make miners.
jborkl: no, we have been
through
this a year ago
mircea_popescu: if we fall for
this poisonous nonsense, about six different governments can attack
the network just out of spare parts
they got laying about.
fractal: mircea_popescu: if you follow
the inevitable logic --
the entity with access
to
the smallest manufacturing process will control a PoW such as SHA256.
There is 1 entity who always has
the smallest fab process -- Intel..
they can do 14nm and put
the rest out of business.
They won't until
the US Government asks
them
to, or until mining is worth $5B / year or so
to make it worth it
mircea_popescu: as it stands right now, any attack on
the bitcoin network requires
the attacker spend some dough on making chips.
jborkl: do you pool mine, solo mine, rent out your hash
to gpumax
jborkl: if you have 100 gh, you get
to vote as a miner with 100 gh
mircea_popescu: as
to whether we break bitcoin
to make
teh gobernmint happy or no.
mircea_popescu: fractal you do realise
the devs don't get a vote, either, do you ?