821400+ entries in 0.585s
zoinky: havent been keeping up
to date with
them
iamnot_: thanks for
the heads up. i will read up on
them.
iamnot_: ThickAsThieves: Graet and Ukyo loans paid daily dividends. Do you know if
those are still around in
the form of direct shares?
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 872182330.638 based on data since last change | 894132728.373 based on data for last
three days
jurov`: then bitcoin falls
to $10
jurov`: mike_c just do
the maths. you write one P100
pankkake: I'd just make
the IPO on a BTC address
mike_c: jurov`: I don't see anywhere
that you are at risk for max of collateral. not
to nag, but what's your confidence on
that?
nubbins`: good buy, can i pre-purchase all
the shares?
gribble: BitcoinAverage BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 1146.52, Best ask: 1150.44, Bid-ask spread: 3.92000, Last
trade: 1145.43, 24 hour volume: 42611.77, 24 hour low: None, 24 hour high: None, 24 hour vwap: 1094.27
gribble: Error: Failed
to retrieve data.
Try again later.
mpexbot: ThickAsThieves: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact
this bot's administrator for more information.
jurov`: so it isn't hard for mpex
to buy more of
them
jurov`: but
that would also mean bitcoin falling catastctphically
jurov`: if
the exercise requires more,
that's up for MPEx
to pay
stephengandel: Not really. How much collateral would I have
to put up?
jurov`: you understand
the difference between collateral and margin?
jurov`: only
thing we won't do, is
to provide margin
mike_c: jurov`: is
that
true? i would expect
that if
the loss was higher
than collateral
the difference would come out of your mpex account.
jurov`: stephengandel: no, coinbr allows you
to write options under
the same conditions as mpex
stephengandel: But again,
to sell a call I would have
to open a MPEx account?
jurov`: if you wrote
the option
jurov`: no, you will at most lose
the collateral
stephengandel: I guess
that's
the advantage of buying a put rather
than selling a call. Because if I sold a call I could lose an unlimited amount.
jurov`: everything.
the option becomes worthless.
stephengandel: And if I buy
two contracts and instead
the price goes up by 54% or
to $1694,
then I lose what?
jurov`: so, fund
the account just
to buy 3 options. problem solved
iamnot_: pankkake: ´recalled´ sounds bad. does
that mean
TAT bought back everyone´s bonds?
mike_c: otherwise you are exposed with
the leftover btc
mike_c: right, if you are shorting you want
to only buy as many bitcoins as it
takes
to buy
the number of options you want
stephengandel: mike_c, if I just do one contract. I lose money, right? Because I was sitting with bitcoins, or because of
the leverage? Maybe both?
iamnot_: whatever happened
to XBOND? I don´t see it on Havelock anymore...
mike_c: agree with
ThickAsThieves. while we had
this conversation it went up another 1% :)
jurov`: and buying
too, jusr meet some bitcoin anthusiast and buy by cash
jurov`: such small amount is best
to sell
to colleague or so
Namworld: Is it me or is
the breakeven on calls in
the 15000+ USD/BTC?
stephengandel: yes,
that's my point. since all of
this will be done in bitcoins, when I exchange back, won't I lose money, but maybe I have
this wrong?
mike_c: Buy 0.1 BTC for $110. Buy
two P110T for 0.09 BTC. price drops
to 500. Excercise for .24 btc.
total btc is now 0.25 btc worth $125. go party with $15 gain.
jurov`: coinbr does not
touch fiat
ThickAsThieves: obv you need
to be doing higher volume
than one option
to make money anyway, so exchange fees wont be an issue
jurov`: don't mix
the bticoin you are holding long into
there
jurov`: stephengandel: you buy
the option for $49 and exercise
them
to get $60 back
pankkake: I wonder if
this is a "must have shares now" or not knowing
ThickAsThieves: pankkake, yes, but
the investor site is not fully functional it seems
pankkake: yeah. because IPO was never finished before
that
nubbins`: that's
the firt
time neobee has been > ipo for a while, i
think?
stephengandel: Now when I convert
that back
to dollars at
the now btc rate of $1/500 BTCs, I would get $87. Meaning I still lost money!
jurov`: yes, $60 will be 0.12 btc
then
gribble: MtGox BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 1201.00001, Best ask: 1207.0, Bid-ask spread: 5.99999, Last
trade: 1200.75001, 24 hour volume: 15003.00562735, 24 hour low: 1131.72718, 24 hour high: 1219.94333, 24 hour vwap: 1172.45435
stephengandel: add
that
to what I had left in my account, and I will have a
total of 0.17468842 BTCs.
stephengandel: from
the beginning, I buy my 0.1 bitcoin
to open
the account, which currently costs $110.
Then I buy
the put for $49, or 0.04537758 of a bitcoin, and
then I have 0.05468842 left in my account. Let say
the price of a bit coin drops
to $500, and I exercise
the option. I will get 0.12 bit coins when I exersize.
mike_c: thestringpuller:oh man whoever wrote
those options is over exposed << not if
they aren't speculating. if it is a miner hedging,
then
they aren't over-exposed.
mike_c: no, even in dollars,
that's
the point. It's a hedge against bitcoin dropping
jurov`: and current rate at exercise
time applies
jurov`: they are american, so you can exercise
them anytime
jurov`: no you will get
the $49 back in bitcoins at current rate
stephengandel: And
then I have
the problem
that I have
to convert
that back
to dollars, and in doing
that I will have lost money on my bitcoins because
they will have dropped in value.
stephengandel: OK so it would cost me $49, and if a bitcoin drops
to 1000,
then I lose $39. For me
to start making bitcoins have
to drop
to $610. Is
that right?
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: you don't need margin
to write/sell options on mpex. you just put up btc as collateral.
jurov`: SELL QTY means mpex is selling
to you
stephengandel: So if
the price of a bitcoin went down
to 1000 when
the contract settled, I would make $10 minus
the cost of
the contract, or $3.80
stephengandel: what if bought a p110, which is essentially where
the price is now right? It would cost me $6.19 a contract. Is
that right?
ThickAsThieves: well you'd be buying
the bitcoins at a lower price
than
the current value if you surpass your premium
stephengandel: Just
trying
to figure out
the calculation. Anyway you could run me
through
the
transaction?
stephengandel: And also I have
the problem
that all of
this would be settled in bitcoins, so any money I made on
the futures bet against bitcoins would be offset by
the fact
that I own bitcoins, which would be worth less in dollars.