log☇︎
75900+ entries in 0.511s
asciilifeform: ( i did not even know he spoke ru )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought that normally they fucked little chillenz or similar
mircea_popescu: i've yet to find a hitler servant that fucked anything.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i bet herr dokror w fucks baby pandas , and gets away with it.
asciilifeform: but last i heard there's 300+ bodies in there
mircea_popescu: whence it comes is not really my concern, for all i know it is running a charity on mars for poor usian children.
mircea_popescu: so far the winds are not too favourable. consider the situation in the field : hitler has ~exactly one trick~, and it is the following trick : you know i shall fall, and i know i shall fall, and we both know we both know, but here's the thing -- the market can stay liquid for longer than you can stay solvent, especially if the liquid is liquid shit from my liquid shit pump. so come, take positions on my sotck exchange, reflec
davout: maybe i'm missing the semantics of "transaction finality"
davout: so it appears I'm a fucking idiot here
asciilifeform: observe also, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=IsFinal
asciilifeform: davout: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option&_i=nLockTime
davout: i shall research
asciilifeform: (probably even less, i have not crunched exact number.)
asciilifeform: and even if it weren't, it does the exact OPPOSITE of what i asked for.
asciilifeform: how ? i do not know.
asciilifeform: i, for one, would love to discover how.
ben_vulpes: phf: i think this is pretty neat, have wondered about your x-referencer etc
asciilifeform: i do not know why this is done, nor have any plausible hypothesis. vermin do what vermin do.
asciilifeform: phf: i thought your logtron was fed by a standard db..?
phf: ftr, least i somehow become sql acid proponent, i'd like to point out that i'm the only person running tmsr infrastructure ~not on a sql database~
asciilifeform: why -- to this day i do not know.
mats: mircea_popescu: no, i wish
davout: i'm not remembering until my lawyer is around
a111: Logged on 2016-12-30 20:04 davout: i want this transaction broadcast, just fucking drop whatever's conflicting with it
davout: i want this transaction broadcast, just fucking drop whatever's conflicting with it ☟︎
davout: no, but seriously, how many times did I beat prb into crafting txes it would give me unwarranted opinions about
davout: mircea_popescu: yeah, i meant it as a separate, user-initiated step
davout: let's elaborate i guess
ben_vulpes: hey, the power rangers wanted 20mb blocks for whatever reason. i want indices.
davout: anyway, i guess my position basically boils down to: "as far as trb proper is concerned, best wallet is no wallet. but sane indexing mechanisms"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, thread was originally about 'sane wallet mechanism'
asciilifeform: this is actually one of the reasons i insisted on eatblock and dumpblock
ben_vulpes: fine i'm going to go scream in a corner where i'm sure i'm the only one listening
davout: i might very well broadcast other folk's txes from my node, just as well as i might broadcast my own txes from arbitrary shitnodes
ben_vulpes: wallet boils down to 'index of txen paying to addresses i care about' anyways
ben_vulpes: any sane trb that doesn't index tx on output address i suppose
asciilifeform: i dun think 'listunspent' is escapable, no.
mod6: i don't think that should be removed. i think that the user aught to have the option to select them if he wants, with rawtx.
asciilifeform: davout: no, because i'm not about to calculate ecdsa by hand with pencil on grid paper.
asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand, you suggested removing functionality that ~was~ there in 2009
mod6: <+davout> mod6: i think it would actually be the least painful part to test << anyway, i hope so. im sure there will be more discussion in coming months.
davout: i didn't say it had to come *with* trb
davout: script it on top of trb, don't integrate it directly in there is what I think is the correct solution
asciilifeform: if i have to do that.
asciilifeform: but there is no reason i ought to have to enter 8 decimal points BY FUCKING HAND 10,001 times to make a tx.
davout: i content that these should be the ~only~ knobs at trb level
mod6: i read 'errors are tolerated'. and freaked.
mod6: ok. i didn't grok your sentence above.
davout: asciilifeform: i'm simply after the functionality of crafting raw txes from an arbitrary of outputs that *I* select, not wallet functionality in the sense of letting the system work out the details of "send X bitcoin to Y address"
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: error can be tolerated in ~autopilot that user can disable at all times~, i.e. it ~recommends~ a tx, user can review before firing << umm, i dunno about this.
mod6: im not fixing the wallet, in this case, ftr. i'm just putting in the ability to create and send a raw tx.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as i understand, davout was asking for sane-wallet, rather than merely raw-tx-hopper
asciilifeform: mod6: error can be tolerated in ~autopilot that user can disable at all times~, i.e. it ~recommends~ a tx, user can review before firing
mod6: we'll be discussing more in the near future i do suspect, Sir.
mod6: i think over all it's a decent approach. have some pre-crafted transactions, and see how it goes. this is minimum. i wanna make sure we don't just capture "happy-path" but, all edge cases too.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this won't , as i understand, help him, he wants to ~craft~ tx, not merely broadcast-raw
ben_vulpes: mod6: "test[ing] this" is actually how i got on the alpha centauri miner quest
davout: mod6: i think it would actually be the least painful part to test
mod6: well, ... feel free. but i think the coding part aside, which isn't going to be horribru, since a lot of it is backport anyway. but the testing is gonna be gnarly.
davout: pretty much the only thing i personally need to be able to rm -rf all traces of prb from my boxen
davout: yeah, ben_vulpes told me in your very chan, if i can help it i'd be happy to, it does sound like a pretty good starting point for me to hack on trb
davout: what do you mean? i create transactions from arbitrary unspent outputs, sign them, and broadcast them
asciilifeform: but i saw no reason not to give it a red flip cover.
davout: also i'm getting a "Flushing wallet.dat" after each eatblock, eats ~50ms each time
jurov: i see, ty
jurov: ok, i'll rather start again from the beginning. what's the newest v.pl version?
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592846 << I have synced and pressed makefiles.vpatch, but there's no C code, only makefiles ☝︎
trinque: then from there you can optimize and say "I don't care if one guy gets stale form, need moar speed"
trinque: the reason I flip the process and say that db writes static www, rather than www reads db, is that the write of www matter can be transactional with db state update.
mircea_popescu: im not sure i follow this one ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-30 17:56 mircea_popescu: jurov no ; but i am fine with wwwtron ocasionally reading a field that has meanwhile been updated, and giving old, of an unspecified age but less than x time.
phf: dirty read would definitely solve me a lot of headache now, though not enough motivation to switch to mysql. not so much when i worked on oracle for a g-sib where you want acid, so instead "avoid bad writes"
asciilifeform: i pissed on 'db' concept as a student, and i piss today: custom data structure for each job! the year ~is~ 1972.
mircea_popescu: i don't demand db hand over real memory addresses.
asciilifeform: it's malignantly retarded, and i'ma burn it down.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593712 << why should i ever get garbage when reading ~unrelated~ datum?!! ☝︎
phf: not just postgresql mind you. oracle definitely, mssql as far as i know
a111: Logged on 2016-12-30 17:29 mircea_popescu: exactly how the statements {"do not allow anyone else to write here until i say" ; "let anyone read anything at any time"} amount to an "unsolved problem in cs" ? and wtf cs is this we speak of, sounds more like chewinggum-science.
davout: i'm still curious what would make this kind of setup where i script "prb dumpblock | hex2bin | trb eatblock" much faster than syncing from network if the bottleneck is indeed the block verification?
phf: i'm wrong, sql92 allows dirty read in read uncommitted
a111: Logged on 2016-12-30 17:40 davout: maybe i'm too lazy to script this and can live with waiting a month to sync!
mircea_popescu: oh i see. it's the c machine. ok then.
mircea_popescu: and if i don't im racist and rapist ? really ?
mircea_popescu: and i'm supposed to care about the fact that they don't know how to write a db that doesn't spit out passwd ?
mircea_popescu: and THIS is what i mean re "problems in the field". whopee, idiots who can't code still want to be "at the forefront of computing" so they made a modern db that doesn't work.
davout: jurov: i think it's more like nobody gives a shit if static wwwtron is out of sync with DB
mircea_popescu: jurov no ; but i am fine with wwwtron ocasionally reading a field that has meanwhile been updated, and giving old, of an unspecified age but less than x time. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: and here's exactly the problem of superficiality : "you either expect consistency or there's no point in discussing". there's LEVELS. maybe i expect all my writes to be consistent and don't care by A CLASS of reads being consistent. this is a consistency model that's consistent.
mircea_popescu: one cuts and the other picks. if you cut db field into "acid" i pick you out of existence.
mircea_popescu: whether i want consistency as arbitrarily defined by you is my decision, not yours.
mircea_popescu: whether i would or i wouldn't IS NOT THE DB'S DECISION, jurov .
phf: that's not even close to what i'm saying though.
mircea_popescu: and im supposed to be so cowed by the risk of being called mysql-sometrhing that i'm not going to say anything or i dunno
phf: mircea_popescu: that's not quite what i'm saying.
mircea_popescu: phf i am saying that if you imagine the user can be relied on to "know where the locks are and read around them" then you are therefore necessarily saying "locks are useless - user can always know what he wanted locked and simply not write there hurr"
phf: mircea_popescu: i'm not quite groking what the bad write is. are you saying that instead of intermingling writes and reads, you should batch them, and not write while you're reading?
davout: maybe i'm too lazy to script this and can live with waiting a month to sync! ☟︎
davout: ah yeah, i'm currently syncing off ben_vulpes, i was wondering if dumping blocks from prb and then eating them with trb would work
jurov: i was talking about network syncing
mircea_popescu: exactly how the statements {"do not allow anyone else to write here until i say" ; "let anyone read anything at any time"} amount to an "unsolved problem in cs" ? and wtf cs is this we speak of, sounds more like chewinggum-science. ☟︎