753000+ entries in 0.507s
Duffer1: ah, i have indeed heard of people drowning fighting
their rescuers
ninjashogun: When I had been coming in here it was following an experience over a similar channel (related
to doge) on a loan. As someone here (asciilifeform?) explained, I should have 'no problem' getting a loan of $20K. In fact I did have "no problem" on it, but in
the end I couldn't collect it, and had come in here over a few days
to see if anyone were interested in
the same.
ninjashogun: I stopped coming here and returned due
to ughlol mentioning it. I
think you guys are mostly
trolling in here (which is fine).
ninjashogun: I'm Robert, as I mentioned. I hadn't
talked
to you guys before.
☟︎ ninjashogun: Duffer1 - it' snot 'mine'. It's a feature suggestion for
the cardano v2 or v3. it's still
the cardano. 95% would be
the same, including
the basic invention
that
they described.
Duffer1: ninja but why would i buy yours over
the cardano?
ninjashogun: anyway I'd
think
there's a market for in-between, people (like me) who don't care
that much, but would rather not keep a key on a PC
dignork: ninjashogun, let's say it's a complicated attack, and it costs 1M$, which you don't have,
then you can safely assume you shouldn't care :)
ninjashogun: I'm currently developing a wireless version of my prototype, and it is
true
that I am still learning it.
ninjashogun: I'm
trying
to invest in some 2.4 ghz wireless equipment (spectrum analyzer among other
things) and would be
the first
time I use one.
ninjashogun: it's just
that a CPU does so much, you know? it's 2 or 4 cores at 4 ghz with megabytes of just CPU cache and
then hundreds of megabytes of active ram and programs
ninjashogun: I guess I could radically underestimate how much CPU state a wifi
transmission can carry away.
mircea_popescu: you're in a very poor position
to evaluate any of
these contingencies.
dignork: ninjashogun, c)
they're idiots
dignork: ninjashogun,
that's because a) people store useless
trash on
their systems and don't care/ b)
they calculate
the risks and live with it
ninjashogun: dignork - if what you are saying is
true
than
there should be a huge market for a USB wifi stick
that is just 8 feet of shielded USB cable with a power conditioner on either end, so
that your wifi
transmission happens
the fuck away from your CPU.
dignork: ninjashogun, so you keep your key off your computer,
to avoid exactly
that
ninjashogun: dignork - because all computers obviously already leak some information
through faint EM
ninjashogun: dignork - but above and beyond what
the computer leaks anyway by itself?
dignork: ninjashogun, as simple as possible, wifi
transmitter on key-storage device will leak cpu state of key-handling process, game over.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Maybe you are
the wrong audience as you aren't concerned very far
ninjashogun: personally anyone who could bruteforce all
that, while breaking wireless encyrption and your whole network stack, can see
the damn document as far as I'm concerned. and
they still wouldn't have my private key.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't even mena
to "sign" a single document. Just
to
transmit it. And receive back hte signed version.
mircea_popescu: lmao
this reminds me of
the original
tucker max wage fixing story.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, further, as a practical matter you are not being asked
to
transmit a real key. You are just
transmitting a stupid session key
that is used
to sign a single document. And if
that session key is used in javascript, which is VERY far from
the metal (it's a VM, running in interpreter, JS running in a C++ program, firefox, running on Windows) you would have
to have insnae precision on learning exact CPU state.
ozbot: The
Techtopus: How Silicon Valley’s most celebrated CEOs conspired
to drive down 100,000
tech engi
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, anything
that leaked one bit, could be repeated until you have
them all. It only works if you can't learn any of
them, except by brute-forcing all of
them
together.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I get your point but obviously if you can learn a single bit of a key, you can learn
them all. Not one bit should be leaked, ever.
diametric: Login
to see how many imaginary coins you had
diametric: mircea_popescu:
that picture is fantastic, i was literally just having a conversation about redheads with someone moments ago.
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo: I hate
to be
the one
to break it
to you. I
thought you heard. /. had a stroke and is in a nurinsg home :(
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu cool. just submitted it
to smokinggun. what's hn?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, OK. If you
think it is impossible
to prevent WIFI from broadcasting
the full contents of
the CPU and RAM
then you would have
to design around it
to make my suggestion possible, which may be
too difficult.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform,
the paper
that proved
that also suggested mitigation strategies...
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, are you saying
that
the presence of WIFI will leak
the CPU?
ninjashogun: dignork - are you saying
that hte presence of WIFI will leak
the CPU state?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform,
the way a
tunnelled layer works, is it's OK
to give a copy of every bit
to an Evesdropper,
they still can't make out
the plain
text.
dignork: ninjashogun, you missed
the point,
transmission creates side-channel leak
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I
told you? You can consider
the link
totally insecure and still use it....?
ninjashogun: dignork, after selling
thousands of
this one :)
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete now
the work of submitting
to hn and
the smokinggun and so on begins :D
ninjashogun: dignork - further I don't have any problem with it in
the current form. I
think asciilifeform should patent it. I also suggest he work on just one layer of
the solution, which is
the physical
transport layer, and consider bluetooth or wifi.
ozbot: Loper OS » Don’t Blame
the Mice.
ninjashogun: dignork - you misinterpret my
tone if you
think I'm arguing. I like
the idea of
the Cardano very much, I
think it's a genuine, useful, good, and non-obvious innovation, and I encourage asciilifeform in building it and getting it
to market.
dignork: ninjashogun,
take RasPI, hook up wifi dongle and build one, maybe someone will buy, why arguing?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, but
they do love
to use other people's innovations.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform,
that's not
true.
They don't like
to innovate.
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo - in
the eventual wifi version, no one would have
to know
that you even use it. if being surveilled by site, it wouldn't be obvious
that it's on your person. (or whether it is).
mircea_popescu: "it made me so miserable
that life seemed worthless" and so on
BingoBoingo: Generally
that distrust is
the sort
that comes from an abundance rather
than a dearth of knowledge
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: I
think
the point of
the Cardano is it serves people who can not even entirely
trust
the security of *nix systems
ninjashogun: maybe 20 years is
too long for a patent
to be valid -
then consider donating it after 3 years or 7 years. You can assign it
to a protective Open Source patent fund.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if you have
to compete with Kingston copying your idea
then you are dead in
the water. You can't even make it
to market.
mircea_popescu: when otherwise nice, smart guys realised
that
they had literally killed hundreds of women
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually dr semmelweis is a major moment in
the cultural history of medicine
ninjashogun: asciilifeform,
the fact is, if you want
to get
this into millions of people's hands you will have
to invest half a million in research and manufacturing. it could be
the only secure device in
their whole household (if
they run windows.)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - how could it be kept from
the public? Wouldn't every electrical engineer with a scope see it?
ninjashogun: the basic
thing
that you came up with is an escrowed key service embodied in a physical device
that does not disclose
the key, but uses it and discloses
the result.
This is a very good invention.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, by
the way don't let
the haters
take anyting away. All of my suggestoin are at a single layer - and do not in ANY way impact
the basic idea you've come up with with mircea_popescu --- which is a VERY good one. I don't really add anything in my suggestoins - it is
the same design. You should patent it.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Or just blast
the area with cheap crt
tv's playing reality shows, sound off.
ninjashogun: also
the EM radiation might be similar when coming off of several similar computers.
ninjashogun: on
http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/ - I would also suggest running several copies of hte same hardware next
to each other. If
they're all doing something, how is someone going
to know which is
the one
that is of interest.
This can even subvert someone physically ocming in and using it in your absence.
BingoBoingo: It isn't just about
the definition of an airgap, but of
the motivations behind it as well
that make radio
the wrong medium for connecting
to such boxes
ozbot: How
to airgap. A practical guide. pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, Yes, I am. I realize
this is not an airgap.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Are you familiar with
the actual concept of an airgap.