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ReutersEmily: so
that would be similar
to
the SEC's reporting requirements for public companies
mircea_popescu: there's a lengthy list, and all
this is strictly a mpex
thing, nobody else does it.
ozbot: Accounting for
the nonzero asset corporation.
The MPEx standard. pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Pope
mircea_popescu: what mpex does is for fiat institutions
to recognise
there are people who understand how
things work and are currently working
to prevent such corner cases and bad behaviour
Namworld: One can buy a registration with MPEx and
then actually provide
the brokering service, complete with actual web interface. Such as what coinbr.com did.
ReutersEmily: so do you
think exchanges like MPEx will eventually need regulation
the way NYSE needs it -
to prevent corners and other bad behavior?
Namworld: The fact it works like it is makes communications for
trades and information very secure, using strong encryption. It works like one would make orders digitally with an actual stock exchange. Low fees per
trade
too. But high entry fee and no interface.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well, why not ?
they seem of
the same kind no ?
ReutersEmily: I can understand how you could verify BTC holdings but not quite how you could verify
the share holdings
ReutersEmily: you say you make sure
that he who orders a buy or a sell has enough of whatever is needed
ReutersEmily: like, i can see how you would be able
to verify
the btc holdings
ReutersEmily: and how do you verify
the share holdings of an individual seller?
mircea_popescu: and
then whenever someone orders a crossing sell or buy,
the
trade is executed and reported
to
the parties.
mircea_popescu: mpex ensures
that he who orders a buy or a sell has enough of whatever is needed, stocks, btc
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> Apocalyptic somehow not surprising. //
that was ironic :)
ReutersEmily: like, if someone wants
to sell something, MPEx is
the buyer, and
then MPEx
turns around and finds a buyer?
ReutersEmily: Thanks. And
the way you just described
the public key crypto, in
trading
terms, it sounds like MPEx is
the counterparty
to all
trades?
ReutersEmily: speaking of advantages, does MPEx make any money from individual
trades?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily
the advantage of being here. i gain about 15 iq points when surrounded by
these folks.
bounce: that's asymmetric aka public key crypto,
though. minor point of order.
ozbot: The many ways available for
talking
to MPEx pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: and in fact you can actually put orders in mpex right from here, by
talking
to
the bots.
mircea_popescu: you could just code your message, give it
to anyone (publish it on your blog, whatever)
mircea_popescu: once
this is done,
there's no more log in,
there's no more anything.
Apocalyptic: anyway I contacted
that guy just for
the lulz, if he was willing
to pay for such a platform
mircea_popescu: so now based on
this you can send me messages
that only i can decrypt, and i can respond in kind.
mircea_popescu: if you have
the 17×119×5×3 set (ie,
the private key) you can do some
things which someone only having
the 30345 (ie,
the public key) can not do.
mircea_popescu: now it
turns out you can use
this disparity for great mathematical accomplishments, in
the sense
that
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, calculating 17×119×5×3 is
trivial, and any kid in school should be able
to do it.
mircea_popescu: as you can imagine,
this'd
take a while. you'd have
to keep
trying dividing it
mircea_popescu: ok. so let's first look into prime factors.
the prime factors of 12 are 2,2,3,3
mircea_popescu: you don't have
to run research it, just say no if you don't an' i'll explain. it's not really
too complicated.
ReutersEmily: does MPEx keep
track of where its users are located physically?
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 well
there's
this dastardly ambiguity in working for mp/working for mpex.
mircea_popescu: so if you want actual losses i'd guess
ten
to a hundred million.
mircea_popescu: that is easily over a billion dollars in
today's market, but at
the
time btc was valued a lot lower
pizzaman1337: in
the feb report
the expenditure was 8.262335 BTC, how does
that cover a hundred people?
mircea_popescu: to date i would guess about 20
to 30k different individuals have lost
to unscrupulous operators somewhere between half a million and
two million bitcoin
ReutersEmily: and how many individuals do you
think suffered when
those other sites blew up?
ReutersEmily: when you say 20-30
thosuand, is
that per month?
mircea_popescu: which at
the
time worked out
to well over half a billion.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily it varies wildly. currently in
the 20-30k btc range. during one month it handled 400k btc in notional options exposure
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily about a dozen, it varies.
they review public communications, keep
track on
the status of various purported btc companies, make regular statements etc.
ReutersEmily: how many people in your scam-outing dept and what do
they do?
mircea_popescu: i spend hundreds of my own btc
to create evidentiary
trails
mircea_popescu: i have an entyire department dedicated
to researching and outing scams
mircea_popescu: so you know, on
the ground
there's quite legitimate concern.
mircea_popescu: people booking
the
traditional 50% losses in half year.
ReutersEmily: are
the rest of
those (besides havelock) NYSE-type exchanges as well?
mircea_popescu: there has been a lengthy list of wannabe-mpex websites
to date, it all ended bloody.
mircea_popescu: best anyone can determine,
the sec is merely
trying
to cope with
the serious problems of fraud enabled by unscrupulous operators
ReutersEmily: like, some other sites
that deal in bitcoin have
tried
to stay out of range of US regulators by not letting people with US IP addresses log on
ReutersEmily: I'm just
trying
to figure out how
the SEC would argue it has jurisdiction
mircea_popescu: x.eur is a settled euro future handled by bitcoin-central's davout, so i suppose you could use
that.
mircea_popescu: there are websites
that purport
to do
this for you, if you can
trust
them. canonically bitcoin is obtained by mining it.
mircea_popescu: no, i am saying
their debate as
to whethet
to come out and say its not in
their yeard or not ended up in fishtails last
tiem
they
tried
to come
to a declaration.
ReutersEmily: You were saying
the SEC already discussed whether
they could have jurisdiction over bitcoin exchanges?
mircea_popescu: you may want
to pick up
the glove she failed
to identify.
mircea_popescu: as i was pointing out
to someone from i don't remember where yesterday,
ReutersEmily: yeah it is really cool from my perspective (i cover SEC enforcement, etc)
to get
to see how
they operate like
that
mircea_popescu: "i read it and shared it with everyone i knew. i
think it was fantastic. i was going
to congratulate you on it yesterday but i figured you were
too busy."
ReutersEmily: So I see you posted
the SEC letter on your site
ozbot: How does one list on MPEx ? pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ReutersEmily: so what kinds of people or companies do not make it
thru your dd process?
mircea_popescu: if you just let anyone randomly registering you end up with
the pink sheets, basically.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well, again just like
the nyse. you have
to satisfy a due dilligence process.
Namworld: Havelock works boh as an exchange, and as a broker. It makes it easy
to
trade, no opening fee and large
trade fees. MPEx works like an actual exchabge. Not much interface, very high security, high entry fee for a seat, low
trading fees.
mircea_popescu: s.nsa is a fine example of one company
that succeeded.
the owner
there came up with
the idea of making an actually cryptographically secure gpg gizmo
ReutersEmily: as in - some make it
through your registration process and others don't? or can anyone register, and
then it's just sink or swim, it's a matter of whether
they can attract funds?
ReutersEmily: what if i have an idea for a startup, can i register with you before my company is really up and running in order
to get some funding for my idea?
ReutersEmily: and all of
the
transactions are conducted in Bitcoin
then?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily mpex works exactly like
the nyse, if nyse worked as intended.
ReutersEmily: How does MPEx work? Can one chose what specific investments one wants
to make or is it a portfolio chosen by MPEx?