748000+ entries in 0.601s
benkay: (kicking and screaming
though it may)
ninjashogun: benkay, yes it's just a
thought experiment. Clearly
to SOME extent people would
treat
their cardano's slightly more securely physically if
the printed key were on it.
benkay: i'm
trying
to drag
the lunacy out into
the open, asciilifeform.
benkay: or are you proposing abandoning
the fry operation, ninjashogun?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so, how do we determine
the difference between Steering Wheel Spike - print
the private key on
the Cardano for anyone
to see - and genuinely sound decisions added for gravity?
benkay: how does
this printed key work with
the "fry" switch?
ninjashogun: So
that is
true of a 500x risk compensation psychology. In
this case, every Cardano should have a private key easily legibly printed on it for anyone
tosee.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in
this hypothesis, clearly it would make
the Cardano MUCH safer
to physically print
the private key on it (ascii-padded) on a piece of paper
that is folded a single
time and
taped
to
the Cardano. If users MUST do
this or
there is no way
to do
this,
they will
treat
the Cardano much more safely.
mircea_popescu: yet versace purse makers intimately understand why cheap chinese knockoffs are
their problem
decimation: nevertheless, I fail
to see how
this is
the ammo manufacturer's problem
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - let's change
the approach slightly. Suppose
that
the "risk compensation effect" were 500x, and
the SLIGHTEST reduction in risk will be compensated 500x by risky behavior.
ninjashogun: Both map
to STD's. Both reducing
the
threat vector back
to
the PC, and reducing
the immediate loss without any effort on
the part of
the enemy, will increase risky behavior.
ninjashogun: decimation, i.e. if it has been in adversary's hands,
the result is obviously 0% integrity. What else is
the result? I identified a couple of results
to asciilifeform (including
threat verctor back
to PC should it be replaced without
the Owner's knowledge)
ninjashogun: decimation,
the example is actually not about integrity. :)
decimation: well,
then how does checking for std's map
to
this?
ninjashogun: Integrity is, obviously, right out
the window.
decimation: there's no method
to gaurantee
the integrity of any device
that could have been in
the enemy's hands
ninjashogun: decimation, so
this relates
to an architectural discussion I had with asciilifeform on it. Specifically, a very GOOD reason not
to include ANY second factor, not even
the most
trivial one (such as not writing your name and bitcoin address on
the Cardano) is because any second factor will INCREASE
the risky behavior in its users.
ninjashogun: he said
that
the only
thing is
that it's a bad, cheap laptoop
decimation: ninjashogun are you saying
that if
the enemy possesses your cardano,
then it is suspect?
CheckDavid: My fellow brothers and sisters praiser
the lord
ninjashogun: by deep check I mean you can get
to know
them deeply, even run medical
tests, as well as
trust
their behavior on a deep level, as you do with your brothers and sisters for example.
ninjashogun: (I mean, for example, in
theory you can do a deep check on all of your partners and KNOW
they have no STD's and also don't sleep with anyone else othre
than you. Condom use lets you have some protection in cases where
this isn't done.)
ninjashogun: But I don't
think
the Risk Compensation argument is effective against condom use.
ninjashogun: For example, it is doubtless
true
that people who use condoms will have sex in some situations (with unknown partners
they're not really sure of)
that
they wouldn't otherwise.
ninjashogun: I
thought about some of
the architectural
things you point out re cardano. As a practical question, how do we determine
the limits of risk compensation arguments?
decimation: the question is: who is getting
the unearned income and for what reasons?
mircea_popescu: they are as much a part of life as hot water and kitchen appliances, and moreover prerequisite
to both.
mircea_popescu: "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly
the cornerstone of productive economic activity.
mircea_popescu: benkay incidentally,
this approach also illustrates what exactly
the current "privilege" discussion spearheaded by
the socialists is, and why exactly it is braindamaged.
ninjashogun: the main reason is
that when it
takes a minute or
to do something, you
take more
time with it. Same if
thre's a physical good. It's why moleskine notebooks contain better diagrams and sketches
than legal pads do.
decimation: the fact
that she might spider
through electronic rather
than physical files changes nothing
decimation: yeah it's obvious
to me
that a good secretary is extremely valuable
mircea_popescu: not she who can
take out
the pancreas, make a liver out of it and pluck it back in.
mircea_popescu: to
this day
the most respected woman on a hospital floor is she who knows where
the binder goes.
mircea_popescu: the reason is
that do you have any idea what a spider monkey capable of navigating
those filing cabinets is worth ?
decimation: and why are
they "too rich"
to simply rely on secretaries and file cabinets? fiat loans, fiat bills, fiat life
decimation: understand and model
their own processes but
too rich
to simply
decimation: computer people. It appeals
to businesses
that are
too stupid
to
decimation: ?SAP is
the best
thing
that ever happened
to
benkay: strikes me
that at a certain point you come out ahead, dishes getting cleaned/loaves getting
tendered.
benkay: ah sorry net negative? even after
the
time and energy pumped into
the new girl or venture?
mircea_popescu: but provided you're any good
the end result is so far out of proportion
to
the original
that your net negative becomes a rounding error.
mircea_popescu: now, obviously,
training a new girl or starting a new business will be a net negative
decimation: certainly
those who desire attention would be willing
to pay
to work as a
teacher, actor, etc
mircea_popescu: decimation but i suspect pg's point stands from a
time before
that.
mircea_popescu: i'd say my business
tended
to me worth 48 loaves and change.
benkay: mistresses i get, mircea_popescu but
the business? does it not
take ongoing
tweaking and leadership?
mircea_popescu: for instance by producing ready resources (cash flow, but not just) in disproportion
to your actual effort
decimation: what's
the difference between
the gentleman sitting on a porch waiting for a welfare check and a professor sitting in a committee waiting for a
tenure check?
benkay: wait how does
the business
tend
to you?
mircea_popescu: you'd have
to be an idiot
to structure your business (and especially mistress!) so
that you
tend
to
them.
decimation: well, academia has been
transformed into bureaucratic employment
benkay: mircea_popescu: regarding weirdos and cruft - is not everyone else busy running
their businesses,
tending
to
their mistresses etc?
mircea_popescu: ng committee meetings. Why would he agree
to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?"
The distressing possibility
that
the oldster agreed
to be on
the committee so
that he would have a venue in which people would listen
to him does not occur
to
the youngster.
mircea_popescu: Part of
the answer may be
that young people fail
to appreciate
the risk
that
they will become more like old people when
they are old.
The young person sees
the old
tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture
that values hot new ideas, sign up
to be on committees.
The youngster never asks "This oldster has
tenure. He draws
the same salary regardless of whether he sits
through
those interminable bori
mircea_popescu: not
that
they're hard
to crush individually, but
there's a fucking pipe of
them.
mircea_popescu: i've had it up
to here with in-their-mind slick fucks
trying
to
turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device.
jurov: to
them bitcoin looks like another conspiration, i spose
jurov: i see surprisingly large part of intellingent people (in sense
they can get easily over-average salary)
trapped in conspirational mindset
jurov: cannot say anything about
the cruft group
mircea_popescu: "This article explores
this fourth possible explanation for
the dearth of women in science:
They found better jobs."
jurov: i'm just
telling you why i
think non-cruft fails
to be attracted
to bitcoin
mircea_popescu: now you
telling me
there's no difference you see here ?
mircea_popescu: suppose
there's a guy with no profession. he loiters a while in new york but eventually all
the beat cops know him so he goes
to oregon
mircea_popescu: here's
the difference : suppose a guy is a carpenter, and he goes
to new york.
there's no jobs
there, so he goes
to oregon and makes himself a cabin.
jurov: but ibm had no part-time position for me, so i said fuck you. i'll
try freelancing
mircea_popescu: but in
the sense of accident "i'd have been
to busy
to hear of bitcoin" or in
the sense of stupidity ?
jurov: what i heard ibm job is much cozier
than getting worried for several months if
that coinbr contraption is actually gonna fed you someday
jurov: mircea_popescu: if
they accepted me at ibm, maybe i won't be here,
too
mircea_popescu: what are we supposed
to do, erect columbia's statue on riker's island over here ?!
mircea_popescu: why is it
that bitcoin attracts all
the weirdos and assorted cruft refused everywhere
mircea_popescu: Neuropathy is unpredictable. One minute I am doing fine,
the next my face aches,
tinnitus (motor in my ear),
then suddenly my abdomen,
then feet,
then can't swallow and have a "fear of imminent suffocation" anxiety attack, feeling
that my stomach wants
to exit my body, etc.."
mircea_popescu: pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me
to write in a forum
than
to do
the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities
to program depending on my body maybe every few day
mircea_popescu: "Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual
technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe
they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get
the solution, as long as we get one. I am not
the young productive programmer
that I once was with
two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri