736900+ entries in 0.43s
ozbot: Dilbert comic strip for 04/02/2014 from
the official Dilbert comic strips archive.
bounce: it's a bit dishonest, really. like
the nth level manager proclaiming he did all
the work. much rather he'd just admit others did
the work, he just make
the work effective. which is nothing
to sneeze at if done well.
mircea_popescu: bounce so
they propose. like you know,
the plowing fly proposes its exertions drive
the ox.
wywialm: hope we'll continue
this fascinating discussion sometime later, i'll be going now
bounce: well, aren't
they
the drivers of
the economy? so money raked in and
tossed out is driving
the economy, surely?
bounce: (at least what little I've seen of economists... let's see if I still have
that impression in a year or so, say)
wywialm: thats funny
that govt always points
to costs and expenditures as something inherently positive
bounce: governments
tend
to do
that. but how does
the premium between us and eu gov'ts compare?
mircea_popescu: this and other imbalances make it so
that
the usg can not actually afford
to compete in
this particular market.
mircea_popescu: i buy at a discount, often significant.
they buy at a premium, always significant.
mircea_popescu: the quietly glossed over point being, of course,
that a dollar of usg spending does not buy it a dollar of rl value.
mircea_popescu: which brings in an interesting side point : recently
the us propaganda press ran a story comparing military spending, showing
the us as
the sum of europe and other states.
bounce: economists do
tend
to get a bit hung up on solutions without really getting down
to
the structure of
the underlying drivers
mircea_popescu: bounce it can not possibly afford
to pay people
that can outcompete us in
teaching.
mircea_popescu: it does get complicated real quick just as soon as one
tries
to
take
the
theoretical model
to
the actual market
bounce: you're saying
the us gov't *cannot possibly* learn?
mircea_popescu: it's part of my evil strategy of preventing
the usg from ever mattering in
this space.
wywialm: and i believe
the 0..inf is never an option,
the dumping winners can charge only a monopoly rent afterwards, having erected (rather weak) barriers
to entry
mircea_popescu: we're dumping
the shit out of high-end btc education in
this chan, for instance.
wywialm: but
the product differentiation is a good defense against dumping, as it can work only in very simple markets, food and education is not one of
them
mircea_popescu: in fact, mcdonalss DOES sell for free in most of
the us, it does more business as a proxy for usg welfare
than anything else.
mircea_popescu: wywialm it is not dumping
the whole sector. even if mcdonald sold for free i wouldn't patronise
them. i stll eat at good restaurants.
mircea_popescu: european style
towns where commercial and residential zones are not separated are rare in
the us
mircea_popescu: this is why
the us sucks, basically. it, not having ancient microstructure in place,
turned into a sprawl hellhole
wywialm: have a look at education, for example - govt is permanently dumping
the sector,
there are no expectations
to
the reversal of
the course and yet it doesn't manage
to win
the whole market
bounce: it's not quite 0..inf but it does happen all
the
time
mircea_popescu: phase 1 lasts 3-5 years, and is actually evaluated as part of
the financing of a new development.
bounce: and regularly attack each other with
the same
trick afterward
mircea_popescu: they
take advantage of
the captive market
they created, afterwards.
mircea_popescu: it's how supermarkets work, fundamentally, all across
the world.
they drive out small shops in phase 1, with low prices
wywialm: as a
theoretical possiblity - i agree. but empirically, i have never seen it done
mircea_popescu: not necessarily strong enough for it
to happen
too often, or even at all. but factually, it does exist.
mircea_popescu: there does in fact exist *an* economical reason for
things
to play out
that way.
mircea_popescu: yes, but as a model,
this is
the economical reason you were asking for earlier.
wywialm: well, it's very conditional of market organisation - barriers
to entry for example
mircea_popescu: and moreover,
the entire point of
the economy is
to close
the zero-infinity price window as soon as possible.
mircea_popescu: one is
that a competition on operational efficiency has been
transformed in a simple financial competition of "who can support dumping longer"
mircea_popescu: this will drive new competitors in
the market, of crouse, but
the system has
two major problems :
mircea_popescu: however, if dumping is allowed,
then company Y could sell product X for 0. inasmuch as none of its competitors have more money in
the bank,
they would necessarily go out of business.
mircea_popescu: whoever manages
to produce x as defined cheapest wins most of
the market.
mircea_popescu: admitting for
the sake of argument
that competition happens on measurable parameters of defined products, all businesses will normally compete on operational efficiency
mircea_popescu: wywialm let me formalise it for
the sake of public discussion.
wywialm: at least partially, and as far as i managed
to research it, i believe it's a non-issue, perhaps you could point
to something convincing me
to believe otherwise?
bounce: basic healt care at any rate.
the frivolous stuff, less so. and
there's always
the risk of glossing over
the rare but expensive medical cases
wywialm: and regarding emergency medicine: i agree with mircea_popescu, adding
that
the most probable explanation for
this are large economies of scale and perhaps public good as well
bounce: so I'll buy
that as a vivid example of getting
the right knowledge at
the right place, but don't buy
the form as a solve-all.
bounce: heh. guilds have
the same problem as, well, anything else
that gets power. it
tends
to become more important
to hold onto power (by whichever means) which eventually might come at
the cost of
the
thing
they exist for
wywialm: bounce: i can't see any economic justification for
things
turning
that way.
The evolution of PT in Poland is a direct proof
to
the contrary - a few efficient contractors in
the bigger cities and between
them, successfully coping with ever-increasing regulation
mircea_popescu: (for
the exotically curious : parliament passed a law, guy went on
tv
to say
the law fucking sucks, president called in
to say well why didn't you
tell me! let's iron it out!". it was a sight,
the whole
thing. )
mircea_popescu: this is pretty much how
the guilds ran
things, back when european economy actually worked. it's how romania runs emergency medicine,
thge guy's name is raed arafat.
mircea_popescu: bounce
the only way i see
this
to be approachable is
the medieval method (still used in romania for emergency medicine say) : you hire a boss. he does whatever he wants.
VanCleef: i
think SatoshiIsland needs some sort of governence but it should be like a company where you hire people for
the positions via very complicated hard
test, previous background and experiences and
these positions should be interchangable every year and performance based
mircea_popescu: public
transportation is perhaps
the best way
to drive
that entire argument.
bounce: or public health. you could provide good basic service
to
the entire population at a reasonable price (hidden in
the
tax bill), but if it has
to be "market driven" you're certainly not going
to get
that. and
that when it's
to everyone's benefit
that
the workforce is healthy.
mircea_popescu: omfg,
this is beyond cute.
the derps on
tardstalk actually
tried
to like... fud s.mpoe ?!
bounce: say, public
transport. first you end up with lots of PT companies doing
their
thing and a right jumble it is.
then
the state steps in and puts it all under one umbrella. N years later it gets a bug up
the old bum about privatisation and you end up with lots of little companies again... and worse service
to higher cost.
mircea_popescu: this would be
the first
time reddit scammed
teh btc public
then ?
bounce: though clearly enough often enough
the government has no clue either way and everyone suffers
bounce: well, you know.
there's
things
that look like economics but are more important in other respects, and so
the state might well step in and run
the show.
wywialm: but still - i'd opt for a government scandinavian style
that is just fiscally opressive but much less
tries
to mix with
the rules
mircea_popescu: which is
teh deep reason
the western world slid into socialism past century or so.
mircea_popescu: anyway, as
technology frees more and more
time, people can't resist
the
temptation
to
try and feel it with a delusion
that
they actually matter.
wywialm: you're very right on
the govt contracts stuff, but i suppose
the regulatory burden is much heavier for
the economy
than plain old fiscal intervention
mircea_popescu: wywialm i know you aren't, but stating it for
teh record.
mircea_popescu: and for
that matter
they are well aware of
this, hence
the entire "conquer education by federal grant" programme past 20 years
mircea_popescu: merely
the presence of "government contracts" in
the us renders entire sectors state controlled/planned
mircea_popescu: we don't buy
that in court, so why would we buy it otherwise.
wywialm: mircea_popescu: great comparison -
though,
the keynesian would maintain
that
the girl's always willing, only sometimes
too shy
to ask
turbo_ac100: Does google rank your site worse if I dont have
the relevant
TLD and do geotargeting only with webmaster
tools?
mircea_popescu: like if you keep a girl
tied
to a post in your basement and only rape her when she's not... willing, i guess you'd call it ?
mircea_popescu: btw, someone with a forum account drop a line
to salty /
the artist
wywialm: well, socialism sometimes vs socialism always is a difference even in principle and not only in quantity -
the market is still
the default in keynesianism
ozbot: Hitler MP pe
Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
dexx: >
they used a blow
torch
to
try
to cut open
the bomb
mircea_popescu: wywialm i fail
to distinguish socialism and keynesianism myself.
dexx: how comes i have
the impression
there are only very few successful bitcoin businesses?
VanCleef: ima make a lil list of
the last 2 years anyway
wywialm: mircea_popescu: isn't it socialism and not keynesianism? afaik keynesianism is "the state is
THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility" but only when
there are aggregate demand defficiencies
bounce: seems
to me a bit of a mistaking
the road for
the horse
mircea_popescu: austrian school holds exactly
the opposite
to be
true. back when
the us-uk alliance consisted of reagan and
thatcher,
the exact opposite was widely held in... amusinglyt....
the same economist circles.
bounce: ``Now, whilst some might welcome
the reduction in
the state caused by a loss of
taxation,
the state is
THE key economic driver of innovation, prosperity and social mobility.'' --
this widely accepted in economists' circles?
VanCleef: i only get
till 28th of september 2012 mp
mircea_popescu: so did neobee finally issue
that vaunted first quarterly statement
that really shoulda been
the
third ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: but i'm not about
to buy a coin off some random noob with no
trust ;p <<< ajaahaha
the moment we've all been waioting for. nubsy baby, maybe buy it FOR ATC ?!?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: it is always one
thing
to read a philosophical bit, and another
to
taste it on one's sorry skin << do
tell ?