log☇︎
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asciilifeform: 'make artificially easy for os and whatever ears on walls it came with, to know which box is rng'
asciilifeform: in those days thought it was obvious nope
asciilifeform: i.e. whether to have kernelism knob for it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i've been breaking my head against it since we built the thing in '16
asciilifeform: ^ interesting thread re 'fg in kernel or not?' that sat in shadow of 'grr no logs' episode
asciilifeform: btw before it gets lost , this was imho good point.
asciilifeform: but iirc this also existed prev.
asciilifeform: btw cross-chan echoing also worx, e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-08#1000024
asciilifeform: ( protocol, ftr, is such that speakers do not actually see their own output. logger has to log it explicitly )
asciilifeform: iirc this worked in all prev. loggers also
asciilifeform: aite!
asciilifeform: ok lemme know if you want it converted to classical 1line.
asciilifeform: ha i did already didnt i.
asciilifeform: oh hmm
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: want this in next rev ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can easily multiline
asciilifeform: what's with this 'guess our magic rate limit' thing.
asciilifeform: fucking tards, the fleanode people, if you wanna by synchronous, BE SYNCHRONOUS, say when ok to send next ln !!11
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 << in snsabot, it's 0.1s right nao (t_delay knob in config )
asciilifeform: perceptible enuff diff that it annoys asciilifeform , who developed long ago habit of refreshing log pg on his various machines 'as if it were local thermostat log'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926458 << well, take the current log tail; here on my box 'time curl ....' is 2.2s for mine vs 0.09s for phf's
asciilifeform brb:teatime.
asciilifeform: search uses same indexing method as earlier in phuctor.
asciilifeform: mine uses postgres (9, 10, both work)
asciilifeform: ( iirc he also did not use sqlism, but kept entire working set in ram )
asciilifeform: snsabot and its www end are imho usably snappy, but you can tell that they run in interpreter, visibly slower than phf's
asciilifeform: ( it gives you a faux-thread abstraction so can call e.g. blocking read() , but it dun actually parallelize )
asciilifeform: python dun support machine threads.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: 1 reason to use cl, is that ~50x faster, vs pythonisms. and can use actual machine threads.
asciilifeform: there's a place, at least for so long as we're doing tcpisms, for langs with garbagecollector etc.
asciilifeform: you can't even concat 2 strings w/out 'secondary stack'ism
asciilifeform: diana_coman: principal weakness of ada in re this problem set (at least the ada 'specified' by asciilifeform) is stringism handling
asciilifeform: so instead put on gas mask an' did it phuctor-style
asciilifeform: before long we're looking at 10,000ln lol
asciilifeform: there aint one.
asciilifeform: for gnat.
asciilifeform: would have to write pg end also !
asciilifeform: i actually started to write one, lol! when this particular episode began. but quickly realized that it'll carry on for month+
asciilifeform: currently there aint a 'tmsr lang' in which can readily write wwwisms. (i dun even have a tcp end for gnat atm)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: rationale is that each bot maker used the lang that was most fresh in head.
asciilifeform: and ultimately in tmsr-l
asciilifeform: diana_coman: possibly CL, after spyked genesis's his cleaned up hunchen
asciilifeform: (liek phuctor did)
asciilifeform: the www end does use 'flask', py's equiv of hunchentoot etc
asciilifeform: but deliberately wrote this one so it can be with minimal effort rewritten in sumthingelse (i.e. did not use py 'irc libs' or whatevers)
asciilifeform: ever since 1st had to write a wwwistic proggy (phuctor front)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i use python as 'less carcinogenic' perl
asciilifeform: 'join_t = 20' atm.
asciilifeform: so instead has configable delay there.
asciilifeform: unlike earlier ben_vulpes irc proggy, mine does not 'wait' for fleanode-specific warmup message (deliberate, i wanted to be able to stand it up behind e.g. znc , if desired)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as you can tell from last coupla comments on your www, even there i missed initially a spot of retardation (fleanode lets you auth, but if you join ~immediately~ then won't be authed for purpose of +r chans. this is documented nowhere.)
asciilifeform: PeterL: in order to actually attempt to 'fit in head' the barbaric protocol, i wrote bot on naked sockets, instead of using whatever-lib
asciilifeform: what does, is to prevent eternal hang on silent (ask the tcp committee why this is physically possible, not me) deaths
asciilifeform: PeterL: recv timeout doesn't disconnect. state machine goes to recv again.
asciilifeform: all meaningfully adjustable knobs -- in config.
asciilifeform: for completeness, the www end, in case asciilifeform gets sepsis before gets to genesis. and example config (config is common to both proggies, give it on cmdline)
asciilifeform: imho the current item should be left alone until mirror stands up , at least unless someone finds how to choke it trivially
asciilifeform: main problem is that right nao there is exactly 1 reliable logotron, so when i add knobs, will have to be cycled (will try to do when no one is awake)
asciilifeform: item is sewn such that theoretically can digest any barf thrown by fleanode. but this will have to be verified experimentally.
asciilifeform not pro 'wwwist' in civilian life, so has possibly.. odd notions of how it is done
asciilifeform: as well-designed as script proggy gets when written in <wk lol
asciilifeform: !q s f:ifeform f:escu trb
asciilifeform: ( idea was, master and slave required to sit on diff. fleanode shitpits at any given time )
asciilifeform: and prolly not useful when we jump fleanode.
asciilifeform: initially i considered to have two-headed bot, with a slave who is kept around strictly if master falls. but this not implemented yet.
asciilifeform: there is timeout on recv() so 'silent stall' also not wedges bot. at least in theory.
asciilifeform: bot is built to cycle through list of irc servers (in our case, fleanode) , if one throws, goes to next
asciilifeform: the minus is that bot search dunwork if wwwtron is down. ( but why should be down, for more than coupla sec it takes to reset when new ver. phuctor's has not 1ce fallen by itself since last rewrite. )
asciilifeform: (there's no shell callouts)
asciilifeform: not literally but functionally yes
asciilifeform: so when changing www search algo, same will apply to bot
asciilifeform: i wrote the bot to use the www end's search function, so as to avoid having two duplicated searchtrons in there
asciilifeform: 1000 currently cap.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^ is good example, paginator not in there yet
asciilifeform: tooshort
asciilifeform: !q uptime
asciilifeform: btw ok to put spaces,
asciilifeform: really oughta, esp. when we get moar cmds
asciilifeform: will go on list.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: think ought to 'per cmd' help eh.
asciilifeform: !quptime
asciilifeform: !qseen asciilifeform
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'seen' dunwork yet
asciilifeform: yw diana_coman . it is not difficult to add knobs, whole thing is <1000ln.
asciilifeform: ( rationale was, there are chans where folx speak erry coupla days or so, and handy to be able to jump back immediately w/out flipping pages )
asciilifeform: ( atm if <1min ago, says nuffin. prolly oughta put in a 'now' etc )
asciilifeform: tells you when was last line spoken (clickable, will go to it)
asciilifeform: right nao i have 1 knob that phf did not, the activity ticker on top of page
asciilifeform: the beauty of 'publish the fucking src' is that in principle can then add knobs.
asciilifeform: but theoretically can be made
asciilifeform: cuz never found it esp. useful
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phf's had the activity graph. i did not clone it
asciilifeform: i recall the 'ro digg' aha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not seen, iirc
asciilifeform: for instance right nao anyone leasing a box on piz, can hear the pw
asciilifeform: theoretically can sit it down behind znc, and run sslism to fleanode, but i fuckinhate sslism
asciilifeform: current bot -- the latter
asciilifeform: it's either sslism or plaintext 'errybody in same cage sees'
asciilifeform: btw here's a headache : seems like fleanode dun support hashed pw. at all.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and incidentally frontend is based on ye olde phuctor's