log☇︎
640500+ entries in 0.399s
mircea_popescu: okay. so you know what an office manger is. sorta like a glorified receptionist, hires the cleanning crew, takes a weekly salary.
Kamuela: i have to manage the programming team every day
Kamuela: in this project, and that's not some kind of a euphemism
Kamuela: well let's put it this way
mircea_popescu: don't get all bristly lol. anyway : there's tools to organize all that, use 'em.
Kamuela: and i'm not trying to cash in on that
Kamuela: i acknowledge i didn't think of it first
Kamuela: you act like i'm just trying to take something to a patent office
mircea_popescu: none of this is to say you personally are a bad guy or anything.
Kamuela: so... because i want to organize a bunch of people who don't know each other, because i interview potential customers, because i will continue to direct operations of both the MVP and later pivots, I am contributing "nothing?"
mircea_popescu: "i thought of it first!!11" or w/e.
mircea_popescu: not eliminating ideas, but the brand of "ideas", or whatever it reforms as. this concept that one's personally important for no reason whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: you can'rt ever know this, can you ? that means you're not part of the pie, not adding value.
Kamuela: i understand trying to eliminate that, but i think that will be done through solving information asymmetry rather than through eliminating... ideas?
mircea_popescu: Kamuela approach it from another angle, perhaps it's more digestible that way. suppose the worker's work was no good. you know this because the code doesn't compile. suppose the capital's no good. you know this because the check bounces.
Kamuela: something for nothing is what drives the world. it's what causes both its prosperity and its problems
mircea_popescu: much like you'd have starved cca 1920 trying to be a buggy manufacturer.
Kamuela: even if we are all managed by artificial intelligence, that artificial intelligence is still the capitalist
mircea_popescu: Kamuela no. i say that within your lifetime, you'll starve with this model of trying to ceo that i perceive you're trying to impl;ement
Kamuela: so what will happen in my lifetime, you're saying, is that the profit motive will go away, all marginal cost will go to marginal benefit, and unicorns will come back from extinction
mircea_popescu: it will be the rule within your lifetime toh.
mircea_popescu: it only isn't the rule because up until now there didn't exist this chan, and this ideology.
Kamuela: the thing is, if it were easy for builders and maintainers to be owners and operators, it'd be the rule instead of the exception
nubbins`: TheNewDeal: about a week-ish to ship
mircea_popescu: and that means the only way you'll be able to give them a worse deal is for as long as this elephant in the room stays secret.
TheNewDeal: they had the power to think, and not do
mircea_popescu: i'll support the idiots of type b directly tyvm
TheNewDeal: but MP, don't you remember the cyperpunks thought up PGP before it was implemented?!?!
mircea_popescu: what i'm trying to impart to you is that this "take capital from idiots of type A and labour from idiots of type B" that silicon valley was built upon is dead in the water.
Kamuela: i don't make money on a crowdfund, this is completely development and marketing runway
mircea_popescu: asking is not the problem.
mircea_popescu: money comes through work.
mircea_popescu: there's no value in "ideas" and rebranding them as "vision" won't wash.
mircea_popescu: Kamuela you know you're just calling it "vision" to avoid saying "ceo is the guy who wants money for nothing and thinks this wil wash"
Kamuela: CEO's contribute vision, investor and customer relations, executive decisions, accountability, etc. could all of these things be "in-sourced," sure, and they are in a lot of cases
mircea_popescu: jobs was not the ceo in the sense you use the term.
mircea_popescu: but anyway : specialisation is not a good thing just for the mere fact that it's specialisation.
Kamuela: are you the type who thinks that
mircea_popescu: this being a recurring discussion these days it seems.
mircea_popescu: im running counter to some very particular, bad implementations of capitalism.
Kamuela: you just want it to be the build crew as well
mircea_popescu: well then fuck him, he can go die in a fire.
Kamuela: are you anti-capitalist? seems like you're running counter to specialization and trade
mircea_popescu: if i wanted to "start it" i'd have started it in 2012. but i don't, because i can't nor should i do everything.
Kamuela: mircea_popescu: the coder doesn't want to do that. the coder wants to run a development shop
mircea_popescu: Kamuela no, it wasn't "let me start it". it was "let the coder start it, and run it"
TheNewDeal: I thought he was the funding
mircea_popescu: only in a very distant sort of manner. not in the traditional sense the term is used.
Kamuela: if you're working with them directly, doesn't that make you CEO?
Kamuela: mircea_popescu: you seriously just said that?
TheNewDeal: I actually like that
mircea_popescu: https://btc.waroflife.com/gow/27/ << interesting bet calculator thingee mike added
TheNewDeal: how long does that stuff take to ship ya think?
nubbins`: you can even get em plaque-mounted, i've seen people do that
TheNewDeal: whens the downpayment due?
nubbins`: otherwise you're paying to ship a piece of glass across the continent :D
nubbins`: framing it locally would be the sensible option
mircea_popescu: half the value of b-a is taking the entire layer of would-be ceos out of business completely, as there's nothing really they can usefully contribute.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal yeah. buy with a friend to save on shipping ;D
mircea_popescu: Kamuela: briefly, a bitcoin work market a la odesk. development team ready << well, the thing is this : we;ve been wanting something like this built for about a year. finding someone to do it is hard, however, and moreover i won't support a would be ceo on op's work. i'd rather deal with the coder guy directly.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal: totally. probably somewhere in the $20-ish range as a guess
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: its an exercise to alert reader. << ahh
X-Rob: 1xrobauEmhLwVnTmLbs6M92n1xGFAFbgq is the address
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: yes, please, I was going to remind you about that. Need to figure out the discount though.
TheNewDeal: haha I guess that may be fair
mircea_popescu: X-Rob want the same address used each week ?
nubbins`: [00:13:41] <mircea_popescu> ok this rocks.
nubbins`: all i got is testimonials:
TheNewDeal: I do like your work from what I've seen, but I haven't the slightest clue about this one
TomServo: nubbins`: Cool thanks. I'll wait to see it.
Kamuela: so if i found a way to make them shine i'd probably get farther along
nubbins`: price will probably be 40-45 once they're all printed, signed, numbered, and pictures taken
Kamuela: because my connections at differential and the team there represent about 50 years of combined success in MVP's
nubbins`: TomServo: i'm printing them this week, i do have a digital proof but i'd rather show off pictures of the actual silkscreened version. pics to follow, but you're buying blind if you pre-order ;)
Kamuela: perhaps i'll have to be my own silent partner
Kamuela: kakobrekla: totally agreed
TomServo: nubbins`: Is there a photo or sample of the poster?
kakobrekla: Kamuela that linkedin isnt much to go by.
Duffer1: b-a are generally firm believers in the Eddy Murphie method of help
gribble: #21349 Mon Aug 25 13:40:55 2014 nubbins` SELL 1.0 'What is Bitcoin?' silkscreened art print @ 35 USD (18x24", limited edition of 45 available to public, 4-color silkscreen print on acid-free paper, pre-order price only. Shipping week of August 31.)
Kamuela: i don't mind the real questions, kakobrekla addressed a serious point of "who are you?" that's a real question that has to be answered
punkman: you can help yourself by reading teh logs
Kamuela: there's a real potential to help me out in one way or another, but isn't it boring to make words and contribute nothing?
punkman: Kamuela, I think your plan is to make it prettier and with more javascripts?
punkman: there's a few dozens of them
ThickAsThieves: isnt someone already working on this?
Kamuela: ThickAsThieves: I don't know about the actual total market, but just odesk takes in $80mm
Kamuela: and how are they going to address a cheaper and lower-hassle competitor even with Bitcoin? will they openly say jobs paid in bitcoin are discounted? i don't think they could do that
Kamuela: meaning there's a whole lot of inertia to fight to make that happen
Kamuela: and odesk "just accepting Bitcoin" is a bigger deal with any real thought
Kamuela: especially when you factor in the fact that a bunch of the initial contractors are going to underprice in an attempt to gain customers, there's a real value proposition to a competing network
Kamuela: but after that there's a real competitive advantage to 10% and a couple days turn around time and <10% and 1 hour turnaround
Kamuela: the first couple thousand users on a Bitcoin-powered odesk are going to be BTC enthusiasts and folks looking to play around, meaning a release valve for pent-up demand for use of coins, and of course a dedicated following of people who want to try to make supplemental or full-time income doing btc freelance work
ThickAsThieves: "Cops found this wanted Nebraska man after he posted his Ice Bucket Challenge on Facebook."
Kamuela: with inferior financial technology
ThickAsThieves: surely bigger than $80m no?
punkman: don't need to scale
punkman: odesk takes 10%
punkman: ThickAsThieves: it'd be nice if there was someone playing matchmaker, vetting both sides, guaranteeing whatever he can afford to
TomServo: First comment: Did you have to fight the urge to call it a "pretty good post"?