446500+ entries in 0.29s
ascii_field: it appears
to be utterly impossible
to obtain
the key components outside of cn
ascii_field: i've been
trying for ~6 months and could not.
ascii_field: shinohai: good luck obtaining so much as ONE system-on-chip for
the prototype
ascii_field: ... and
the node is 2 blocks ahead of 'blockchain.info'
shinohai wants
to start a pogo bitnode factory, ensure domination of
therealbitcoin
ascii_field: "errors" : "EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range \nCInv::GetCommand() :
type=3 unknown
type \nbitcoin in ProcessMessage() \n"
jurov: ssd business is so brisk, i doubt very much
there will be significant bulk discounts
ascii_field: and presently, i am failing
to
turn up usb rtc modules for any price on mass market
ascii_field: kakobrekla: even so, it is a bog-standard consumer product and could be obtained with massive bulk discount if we were
to
try in earnest
kakobrekla: ascii_field> kakobrekla: ssd is often 'free' - rip out of a retired laptop < maybe
that is
true for you and me but not
the majority i dont
think
jurov: i don't have anything around
to rip
jurov: should last 2 years, hoepfully
then
there will be sth much cheaper
ben_vulpes: i must derp my ass down
the coast now, however.
kakobrekla: <ascii_field>
trinque: 50 is almost
TRIPLE
the cost of a pogo < if you dont include ssd you dont have a working node
ben_vulpes: i'm beginning
to suspect
that booting bitcoin nodes cannot be automated in
the same way
that diddling one's gpg cannot be automated.
☟︎ ascii_field: but given as
the protocol has no authentication,
these could vomit forth literally anything
ascii_field: it'd have
to warm up with a few 'addnode's pointing
to working boxes,
to run at all, yes
ascii_field: given
that it
turns your node into a boat anchor
ascii_field: ben_vulpes:
there wouldn't be any '-connect' on pogo net
ben_vulpes: ascii_field:-connect means "ultimately
trusted".
ascii_field: i am reaching
the conclusion
that:
to
the extent bitcoin relies on political
time AT ALL, it is broken.
ascii_field: even if
the
thing had a battery-backed otc,
there would remain
the question of how
to set it
trinque will ponder
the mysteries of pogotime over food matter
trinque: maybe without
the rtc it's a leaky boat
ascii_field: picture an admiral agreeing
to lose 'only half' of his fleet
ascii_field: a solution
that HALVES our fleet is ispo facto retarded!
ascii_field: trinque: 50 is almost
TRIPLE
the cost of a pogo
punkman: the parasitic
timestamp fetching is not a bad idea
though
trinque: so you don't like
the outboard rtc?
trinque: there's a github repo out
there for everything
ascii_field: trinque: aha, just when i
thought
that nothing could be more retarded
than ntp
trinque: this
tlsdate
thing is hilarious
ascii_field: but more
than anything, i expect
that any centralized points of failure ~will~ be usgized
ascii_field: and yes, i expect
the pipe
to be maximally hostile
ascii_field: jurov: realize
that, at
the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from
the seedlist
☟︎ trinque: I dunno any additional complexity is "cheaper"
than
the extra 25 bucks or w/e for
the clock
jurov: i can't imagine what would have
to be done if you expect your own pipe
to be utterly hostile
trinque: incidentally I have found
tinc
to be rather fucking nice for p2p networking
trinque: but
then I suppose
that suffers from attacks against
the routing involved
to get
to
that IP
trinque: jurov:
that was my
thought.
jurov: have we fixed
the peer selection? if peers are
to be configured manually,
they are
trustworthy enough
to fetch
time from, no?
ascii_field: trinque: yes. costs about what
the pogo does
trinque: surely
there's a
tiny USB rtc
punkman: solder rtc
to serial interface?
ascii_field: the only solution i can presently
think of is a variant of ntp over gossipd.
ascii_field: trinque: realize
that without pogo, you're paying literally 10+
TIMES more per node.
trinque: ascii_field: does not seem
there's any sense in continuing on
trying
to do something distributed without an rtc
ascii_field: even a $1 rtc chip,
the kind found on old pc mobos, would suffice
trinque: aside from having been set by me, using my cesium clock,
then running on battery with an RTC
thereafter
ascii_field: there ~is~
the way of having a working clock
trinque: I don't see a way of getting
the
time
that *doesn't* suffer from
that
ascii_field: trinque: realize
that
this can be manipulated by
the enemy
trinque: that's already just
the median
time of
the peers you know
trinque: so
there's "network adjusted
time" right?
ascii_field: perhaps
the day finally came when everyone who could ever afford it - has bought
ascii_field: this is, incidentally, a much harder problem
than
the invention of bitcoin
kakobrekla: but
time now is also determined by your peers
ascii_field: part of block validation is 'is
the
timestamp <2h from now'
trinque: seems you'd have
to
trust at least one node
ascii_field: any and all
turds
that claim
to be blocks ?
trinque: could you use
the same sort of logic ntpd does against block
timestamps?
ascii_field: hitler literally has a button
that can set it
to whatever.
ascii_field: not
to mention
that ANY AND ALL hardcoded addrs ~will~ be
targets
ascii_field: (other
than
the low ver. corner cases mentioned earlier)
ascii_field: the other one appears
to only affect 'phone books', which i'm not even certain matter
ascii_field: until
then, we get wedged nodes and other joys
ascii_field: when we get own planet, with own miners,
then - all
the solipsism you like
kakobrekla: also
try empty value while you are at it
ben_vulpes also suspects
that alf is holding
this patch in abeyance
ben_vulpes: because recompiling bitcoin
to set its version number is fucking retarded.
ben_vulpes can barf up
this patch sometime
this week if not beaten
to punch
ben_vulpes: "does a node with version == 0 fail
to sync?"
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: actually
this bears
testing
too.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: when we move
to alpha centauri with own miners - we can stop
trinque: the
thing's a network after all...
ascii_field: kakobrekla: fact is, if one of our nodes says 'ver 0', everyone it connects
to will
throw
turds in its face
kakobrekla: wait , and you want
this
to remain in?
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla:
there's logic in even
the RI codebase
that does derpy shit if version numbers are below some critical value.
ascii_field: they could still attempt
to filter, but it would have
to be an open declaration of war. something
the gavinists are rather averse
to
☟︎ kakobrekla: i dont see how maxint is better
than '0' except for
the pride parade