446400+ entries in 0.289s
punkman: what if you could do like
tlsdate over ssh, you just dial random IPs at ssh port, get buncha
timestamps
trinque: or if
the set of
things which exist does not contain
the
thing desired,
there you have it.
trinque: kinda like
that bitcoin
thing
decimation: the question is merely 'who do you
trust
to
tell you
the correct phase of rotation'
decimation: time is already centralized in
the sense
that we are all spinning on
the same planet
trinque: anybody ever looked at
tinc as a starting place for a gossipd?
ascii_field: but in ~both~ cases
there is no protection from mitm
ascii_field: the former
treats
the added ip as equal in status
to
those dug up from dirt
ascii_field: the latter
turns
the node into a kind of boat anchor while active
ascii_field: mircea_popescu:
there is presently no mechanism for 'pull blocks ONLY FROM
THESE'
mircea_popescu: why is pogo connecting
to anything but good nodes again ?
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:27:32; ascii_field: jurov: realize
that, at
the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from
the seedlist
trinque: so
this decentralized ledger
thing requires centralized
time
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:10:06; punkman: is
this a first?
ascii_field: ^ see log. i determined
that it is entirely on account of epoch
time
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:00:13; ben_vulpes: wait, wedge is related
to version number?
trinque: ascii_field: and
then going down
that route, anyone can diddle his pogo soon as it's in hand
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:54:35; ben_vulpes:
trivial patch
to apply for anyone who's vested.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:54:46; ascii_field:
they could still attempt
to filter, but it would have
to be an open declaration of war. something
the gavinists are rather averse
to
trinque: is
the problem reducible
to "all pogos agree on
the
time" ?
ascii_field: if
they all give
the same
time, it is probably because hitler killed
the others and
took
their keys
decimation: if
they all give
the same
time,
they are probably not lying
trinque: having bitcoin disregard
time, which I'm sure has all kinds of implications around when you may consider a given block valid
punkman: you can't have bitcoin without human
time. meat rots.
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, I
think
that is
the only possible way
to avoid having a magic central something
ascii_field: decimation:
there is no ability
to authenticate what you get from ntp connection
decimation: not sure about
the signed part
though, need
to look into
that
ascii_field: the point i've been
trying
to make is ~not~ 'let's all go eat our pistols' but
that
the entire fiction of political
time is poisonous when applied
to bitcoin
ascii_field: decimation:
the point is
that
these 'places' are central points of failure, and are even now controlled by
the enemy
decimation: I find
the magic box unneeded when I can get rsa signed
time from a variety of places via ntp
trinque: and consider certain addresses a valid source of
time?
trinque: could you encode
the
time into it?
trinque: ascii_field:
the script itself could be both properly signed and invalid right?
jurov: well.. nuke
the
time-related checks altogether?
ascii_field: and now you've
throttled
the pogo
to 10/100
ascii_field: and what is
the
thing
to do until it hears it ?
decimation: that serves
time via ntp server and has a push-button input on
the front panel
trinque: ascii_field: what's wrong with
the idea of signaling via specially crafted
txn?
decimation: if we are
this paranoid about it,
the only solution I can
think of is
to ship a separate box with an ethernet port
ascii_field: probably
the only Right
Thing (tm) solution is
to somehow cleanse bitcoin of its dependence on wall
time entirely
☟︎ decimation: it was already such a
turd, we are just
trying
to find out what
to do about it
ascii_field: and now we've
turned bitcoin into a centralized
turd
jurov: and if we have rsa-signed
time, usg will pwn or jam
that
too
decimation: alright, apparently we need a #b-a radio clock
transmitter
too
ascii_field: decimation: quickest way
to make sure any kid can set your clock
to whatever he wants
punkman: slavegirl must post signed
timestamp every 10 minutes?
ascii_field: i am looking forward
to hearing of some answer other
than soldering iron or gossipd
trinque: some way of signaling current
time via invalid
transactions?
☟︎ decimation: okay if we are
taking it
that level,
then you really need non-network
time
danielpbarron: a few of
the inner plastic clips got cracked in
the de-shelling process but
they should still click back
together no problem
decimation: lol so you are gonna get diddled
time?
jurov:
that's not clever enough for alf
decimation: no need
to run ntp, just ask for
time once
ascii_field: jurov: not sure if it is so much of a corner. perhaps it is possible
to get a 'good enough' picture of political
time via some clever means
jurov: then you painted yourself
to a corner and need
tiny webserver for user
to set
time manually
decimation: if you actually want
to keep
time offline it's not gonna be cheap or easy
ascii_field: whether a block can be 'latest' depends on local
time!
ascii_field: there is no such
thing as a 'trusted node'
decimation: why not write a lightweight client
that gets
the
time from
trusted bitcoind node network?
ascii_field: jurov probably noticed
that just moving one of
these from america
to europe doubles
the cost.
jurov: yes. and you so like
to paint yourself into corner
ascii_field: if
there is 'monkey' in between
those, add many
times
the cost in
transportation at
the least.
trinque: jurov: I have no slave monkeys
that can solder
ascii_field: jurov: involving ~any~ monkey at all is astronomically outside of what we expected
the cost
to be.
decimation: actually happens on linux as I understand.
there's a
thing
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 18:49:17; mircea_popescu: ascii_field i have nfi why unixtime "locales" are implemented so braindamagedly anyway. all machines should have
the same exact integer for
time.
then if you wish
to localize it, localize it on
top of
that
jurov: surely
there are monkeys around
that can solver
that
ascii_field: just opening
that plastic box is already adding more labour cost
than everything we previously considered
to be involved in setup put
together
☟︎ jurov: *shrug*. so?
throw usbserial chip in?
ascii_field: unless you'd like
to personally solder
these
to all 5,000
theoretical pogos
ascii_field: and shows
that
the gavinists are busy bees, stuffing
the britneychain full of liquid shit
kakobrekla fuckin hates
the days when he has
to worry about britneychain
punkman: ascii_field: I
think
that error means node is sending you command only present in later nodes