445400+ entries in 0.275s
ascii_field: (one of
the most accurate
timebases found in nature)
ascii_field: decimation measures
the
time, by observing a pulsar
decimation: a political fiction
that for
the
time being is
tied
to observable astronomic phenomenon
ascii_field: realize
that earth
time is a political fiction
decimation: well, yes, but
the math is not very difficult
to verify
mircea_popescu: i do not dispute
they exist. what i said, again, was
that if you use a nist
table you're basically querying ntp.
ascii_field: mitm can make
the answer 1) verify sig correctly 2) be arbitrarily wrong
ascii_field: and if it did, hitler could simply delay
the packet
mircea_popescu: decimation what i said was
that if you use usg-supplied cutouts for
that reduction, you're just doing a roundabout ntp call. might as well ask directly
ascii_field: decimation: you can do
this, and sign
the result with your gossipd key, etc. sure
decimation: nobody has
told me why I can't observe
the position of
the sun in
the sky, use
today's date, and reduce
the
time
ascii_field: someone, iirc, discovered
that you could move
the clock on most 'atm' machines
this way
ascii_field: don't even need hitler
there. just a kid with an sdr card
decimation: mircea_popescu: all of
those could be forged by hitler
ascii_field: anyone recall old
thread about banks getting
time from gps antennae ?
ascii_field: ntp is low-enough
traffic
that most of
the planet asks usg more or less directly
mircea_popescu: last i looked into it my isp actually fed you
time, on special port.
ascii_field: there is no widespread custom of isp running a
time server
mircea_popescu: in other news i am pleased
to inform
the general public
that my pyromania is progressing nicely.
decimation: doesn't need
to,
treats as man on
the street
ascii_field: he can if it
treats his signet as ultimate authority
decimation: pogo can record
times he observes new blocks since boot
decimation: hitler cannot change
the clock on
the pogo
decimation: don't need
to only rely on
the ntp reply
mircea_popescu: you know how satoshi would have solved
this problem, rigth ?
decimation: I'm not sure how simple it would be
to implement
decimation: well,
there is such a
thing as signed ntp
ascii_field: and how do you know
the answer did not come from satanic isp ?
ascii_field: decimation: it is well known
that you don't
decimation: ascii_field: you seem
to imply
that you need
to run ntp daemon
to use ntp
ascii_field: the 1969
thing is an arbitrary aspect of
the mechanism
ascii_field: evidently i failed
to make
the minor point here
mircea_popescu: like
the housewives, you know, "oph, i don;t care about
the crisis, my husband does all
that money stuff" "orly ? shut up and sit down, goose."
mircea_popescu: ascii_field
they don't care now in
the manner
they don't care about how well oiled
their rifle is.
ascii_field: not
that virtually no one ~actually cares how many seconds it's been since midnight jan 1 1969~
ascii_field: lamport's achievement was
to abstract out some of
the attributes of
timekeeping we actually ~need~
mircea_popescu: jurov
the way you use
the cow's
teat is not
the alpha and omega of what
the cow
teat is.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 19:14:54; punkman: blockchain doesn't order events based on
time
mircea_popescu: punkman it actually DOES order events
to some degree based on
time.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: almost all
timekeeping is really for ordering!
punkman: blockchain doesn't order events based on
time
☟︎ ascii_field: ^ state of
the art for p2p ~ordering of events~ - rather
than absolute
time
decimation: well, if you only used
the sun and
the rotation of
the earth, you would be ~60 seconds of utc (starting around 1960)
mircea_popescu: unless you discover a more precise clock, and keep it from
the enemy, such
that you can exploit his misclicks and
take his women
jurov: gotta revert
to julian calendar?
mircea_popescu: and
think "hey, my clock can keep
time within
two hours, how would
those newfangled financial
traders and hedge funds render me destitute on
the cointinent my fathers conquered ?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: think of
time as capital, and
think you're
that anon president
that opposed hamilton
decimation: don't need cesium
to keep
time
to 2hr window
ascii_field: but
the mystery of building a non-usg and non-usg-pushable political clock remains, afaik, a mystery
decimation: can't someone in china look at
the sky?
ascii_field: jurov: it is at least
theoretically possible
to build a non-usg network
decimation: I didn't realize
that usg owns
time now
too
mircea_popescu: the only new
thing in
the world is
the history you didn't know, and
the only
thing
that's worse
than what we have
today
jurov: actually, we have an usg internet,
too
ascii_field: and
they aren't sweeping
the house, but shitting on
the carpet
ascii_field feels like he
took
that potion from lem's 'futurological congress', which makes one realize
that he had no robot servants, just leprous wretches dressed in gabage cans clanking around as 'robots'
punkman: ascii_field: well yeah
that was my objection, need
to be able
to adjust downward
mircea_popescu: basically he could be in government : he's decided
to externalise
the cost he can't bore
punkman: you could very easily have monotonically increasing
target
ascii_field: where miners slowly make life harder for
themselves
punkman: mircea_popescu:
this dies, because you will find a random block which is 00000000000000000000000000000f and game over. <<
this is incorrect. you don't infer
the
target from
the hash. 256bit
target is included in all block headers.
mircea_popescu: no, we're friends with hilbert, and i don't
think it's a bad idea, either.
ascii_field: yes, possibly i
triggered somebody's allergy by mentioning a maths dude