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dorion_road: gentoo package management has gone through a lot change over the years. I've used gentoo regularly since 2016, but am looking forward to lobbes article on ebuilds because I still haven't grasped that complexity.
dorion_road: the second is the python script baggae with USE flag system that makes gentoo gentoo for better and worse. I think the package management is the biggest value in gentoo, but I don't yet know the cost/benefit of tameing it with V.
dorion_road: the complexity/cost of the first is the apparent thompsonization of gentoo bootstapping.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-10 12:10:35 BingoBoingo: These costs can take a number of forms, but the big one seems to be... Gentoo comes with a lot of script baggage that makes it Gentoo instead of something else. To make a TMSR operating system that does V instead of the Gentoo thing... starting from Gentoo means a lot of cuts are going to have to be made.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-10#1954759 << this is a good point. In my mind gentoo can be cut in two parts: 1) core/base bootstapping and 2) package management -- 'stage3' and 'portage'/'emerge' respectively in gentoo slang.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I'm trying to stay in my own land and out of the OS discussion, but the parallels between the CrystalSpace discussions and the Gentoo discussions are seting of some alarms.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: there is certainly something there in that CrystalSpace tries to be essentially a sort of OS all by itself.
BingoBoingo: dorion_road: Mind however, that this is based off of what I'm reading in the logs rather than the source of the actual items.
BingoBoingo: Reading the ongoing conversations in the forums and castles, I get a building suspicion that further cutting on Gentoo is going to start looking like cutting on CrystalSpace
BingoBoingo: These costs can take a number of forms, but the big one seems to be... Gentoo comes with a lot of script baggage that makes it Gentoo instead of something else. To make a TMSR operating system that does V instead of the Gentoo thing... starting from Gentoo means a lot of cuts are going to have to be made.
BingoBoingo: dorion_road: It seems to me like the growing dissatisfaction with Gentoo as a thing to capture for terraforming is that Gentoo comes with a lot of Gentoo specific complexity. This complexity can be handy if you want to build a linux and that linux happens to fit in the space the Gentoo maintainers are running towards, but... that complexity appears to be an impediment to producing a standardized thing that just works without inflicting
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 22:26:25 mp_en_viaje: you're either going to make something new, or you're going to make something old. that's the choice.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-09#1954728 << I intend to make something new.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 22:23:39 trinque: you're going to eat something that's bigger than your capacity to maintain and then what.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 22:26:29 trinque: anyone wants to pick up these items I've built, I'll be more than happy to give them to him in working order.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-09#1954729 << can you answer questions and carry conversation about design decisions over these next couple weeks ? there have been a couple, "let's see what trinque says" that've gone unanswered these past couple weeks.
dorion_road: Right now my approach is to draw from the experience with cuntoo and gales and understand : what strengths can be taken from both, what do they both lack that tmsr os requires.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-06 23:08:07 trinque: and you have fewer men than you'd like, and I'm not going to pretend to be 20, and then cry when I fail at it. that's why I said I'm looking at kernel + busybox for my own stack. even it isn't human-sized, but it's about two orders of magnitude less twine and shit than "standard linux distro"
dorion_road: leverage the process.
dorion_road: trinque, you've foreshadowed using a minimalist busybox system, which Gales is. Giving it a test run and writing and article about what the positives and negatives are compared to cuntoo would go a long way to help killing idiocy. If you made time to do it by jan 15, adding your insight while others are working on it would help us
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-29 13:11:15 diana_coman: tbh by now I really want to give a spin to jfw's gales thing too and actually see what's there.
dorion_road: Gales Linux was released last month (which I've used for a couple years by now), bvt and skyped are giving it a spin this month and
dorion_road: I'm budgeting time this month to carry out spyked's method using qemu and lobbes is deepening his understanding of the ebuild system.
dorion_road: The stage I'm at now in terms of wutdo with cuntoo is : there have been 7 installation reports that I'm aware of -- if I've missed one, someone please correct.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 22:23:29 trinque: dorion_road: I dropped the cuntoo thing because I think it's idiocy to "ubuntu but totally in our own way and with moar fascism!1" or w/e. I'm not then going to turn around and help you build one.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-09#1954718 << that'd be a fair point, but what if you help me build something without whatever idiocy which was imported into cuntoo ?
BingoBoingo: 2018 was indeed a year heavy on the thrashing about and wall sticking projectiles
ossabot: Logged on 2018-12-12 14:20:34 asciilifeform: would switch, in a heartbeat, to fulltiming at hypothetical tmsr consultancy, if it could be made to get off ground
mp_en_viaje: then again... 2018 was the year of lotta bullshit, wasn't it.
ossabot: Logged on 2018-11-15 11:58:12 mircea_popescu: i'll want the coin back next year. now go forth and own stupidity no more!
mp_en_viaje: in other end of year book keepings, holy shit i can't believe i'm gonna have to take a negrate in lieu of that coin.
mp_en_viaje: yo spyked, how's the vomit business thsee days ?
mp_en_viaje: the old thing is called kids.
trinque: anyone wants to pick up these items I've built, I'll be more than happy to give them to him in working order.
mp_en_viaje: you're either going to make something new, or you're going to make something old. that's the choice.
mp_en_viaje: everyone runs into the same exact choices. all the time. always the same.
trinque: you have what you want, so I'll see myself out. lets leave it at that.
mp_en_viaje: this is the adult table. grow big, or go raise your kids, whatever it is you do, there's no "let's sit and look at each other".
mp_en_viaje: i'm not sitting around to watch you play with age-adequate lego sets.
mp_en_viaje: then build the capacity to maintain it.
trinque: you're going to eat something that's bigger than your capacity to maintain and then what.
trinque: dorion_road: I dropped the cuntoo thing because I think it's idiocy to "ubuntu but totally in our own way and with moar fascism!1" or w/e. I'm not then going to turn around and help you build one.
mp_en_viaje: hey, are you the hopedale guy ?
mp_en_viaje: !!up tomaw
mp_en_viaje: https://larouchepub.com/spanish/boletines/2006/images/kesha_rogers1.jpg << lotta that actually.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: lol, I knew adlai got sidelined, but it's been a while since I read into the how/why
mp_en_viaje: not that i've seen, not on this planet, but...
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, and she's gonna accept that, too, cuz that's how people are built from nature : sensible. women especially.
mp_en_viaje: ie, "mainstream media" ineptitude wasn't invented this generation of tards. or the previous one. lazy moomoos ran that sideshow for at least forty years.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: well, with age and lock-up knees, it might indeed be quite impossible she kneels for you, there is also that.
mp_en_viaje: o btw BingoBoingo cunt-intel-pros santa also has a tidbit for you. did you know that in your native chicago a "larouche movement" chick made democratic ticket secretary of state (along with some others), and then adlai wouldn't run on the ticket with the nuts so he invented "solidarity party" which of course cost him the election -- but here's the morcel : until ~the day after the election~ the idiot press reported the defeated democratic
mp_en_viaje: "why, you think dogfood tastes differrntly chewed with dentures ?!" "oh my!" "she still lives on this fucking planet, luke" "inconceiblablu!!!"
mp_en_viaje: more stark statement of youthful impotence as imanent ireelevancy besides this simple "oh, an older woman couldn't possibly ever kneel for you" i can't really imagine.
ossabot: Logged on 2017-08-11 14:37:00 mircea_popescu: this is how it manages the inapproximable "whisks" of meaning that latin-style then has so much trouble noting down.
mp_en_viaje: ercise by the very koschei itself.
mp_en_viaje: and then, to add insult to injury, all sort of nobodies on a stick (trump and obama have this exact whisk in common, that as much as trump was an outsider laughingstock for the business community, obama was an outsider laughingstock for the counterculti/commies -- they're literally the same object in a structuralist perspective) ended up arbitrarily named in a purely nominative ex
diana_coman: I had more fun with the "how to make a movement" , "going under cover" and all the "we are very serious(ly playing) here"
mp_en_viaje: then it turned out the fantasyland ontologic approach to existence dun work irl, technology takes over and soon enough they had no name at all, let alone the RIGHT name.
ossabot: Logged on 2016-12-07 19:15:10 mircea_popescu: the whole story is decided at the onset - ARE you hero mc heroson ? yes ? then you go kill koschei. no ? then you don't. what do you mean "do what he did" ffs.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, he's not entirely wrong, either. his diagnosis is correct in at least that juncture : that radical pantsuits never got anywhere, 1960 - 2020, through the exact same mechanism : just as soon as they had two sticks to rub together, they'd get baited into confrontation with the establishment, cuz they're such great heroes & ilya muromets' their name.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 17:42:34 mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in other 60s lulz (since jfw 's memoirs prompted my sending intel on a digging expedition through the shockingly irrelevant microfractures of the us communist party mega-soviet outreach failure) : https://www.markrudd.com/
dorion_road: I can't say I'm very enthused, but looking to see the upside and get through it as productive as I can be. Getting back to Panama will be a relief for sure.
dorion_road: mp_en_viaje myeah, it's a family reunion. I agreed to go back in august.
mp_en_viaje: the "it" being the ~same it as for say the sad kids, self-hallucinated relevancy based on personal illiteracy, incuriosity &c americanskisms.
mp_en_viaje: derpy dood who "went underground" for nothing in particular, got bored of it half decade in for you know, not making enough money, came back out and apologized, spent the next four decades trying to milk "it"
dorion_road: I'll publish my december tmsr os plan by this thursday.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in other 60s lulz (since jfw 's memoirs prompted my sending intel on a digging expedition through the shockingly irrelevant microfractures of the us communist party mega-soviet outreach failure) : https://www.markrudd.com/
dorion_road: I'll be traveling dec 25-jan 6 with potentially good internet, but unknown at present; I'm going on a cruise. january 6th I'll be back in Panama.
dorion_road: bvt thanks, sounds good!
mp_en_viaje: happy holidays, or how the ro for it goes, sarbautori fericite.
bvt: dorion_road: comment published and answered; i can do a test run of gales after returning (20 dec)
bvt: hello, i'll be traveling 14-20 dec and 5-10 jan; will be in low availability mode
dorion_road: mp_en_viaje thanks for helping me clarify.
mp_en_viaje: this is pretty much universally the case, yeah.
dorion_road: ave1 the latest on the gcc discussion is 4.4.7, 4.7.4 and 4.9.4 are up for consideration.
dorion_road: mp_en_viaje I was/am thinking of the bios software as one of the standard parts. if the operator doesn't want to use it, doesn't have to. for anyone that does, it's there to be used.
mp_en_viaje: dorion_road, seems to me you're mixing things. yes, you can run a mercedes you bought on mud roads in your native tardikistan. no, it can't be a mercedes if it comes without a manual, or without standard parts, or if it violates any other fundamental assumptions implicit in the name.
mp_en_viaje: whoa, this rake actually got stepped on meanwhile ?!
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-29 13:08:36 mircea_popescu: this 2 really goes all the way back to the proposed portage supremacy i nixed back in 2018 or w/e it was. NO, portage is not special cuntlet, NO, portage may not be more important than any other turd. V rules, portage obeys or goes away.
dorion_road: mp_en_viaje right, if tmsr, then bios to be ruled by V, in line with portgage and all the rest. can still run tmsr os on hardware that's not tmsr bootable with bios build and install optional.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile from trilema arguably-useful spam, http://rdk.regionsv.ru/
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 11:56:03 dorion_road: The baseline consideration is, what is the ev of having the already known TMSR bootable bios configs under V ?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-09#1954635 << wtf does "tmsr" mean if they're not in v, anyways ?
dorion_road: let's shorten that feedback loop, eh ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-17 12:42:50 ave1: I was genesing it, and will continue to do so. But with feedback in the loop. So, for example, gcc comes with an old STL html documentation tree, can this be dropped? (I would say yes)
ericbot: Logged on 2019-11-27 18:40:49 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-17#1951499 << hey ave1, how goes ? has there been a delivery date set on this ?
dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-11-27#1953688 << hey ave1, how goes ? have you been following along the tmsr os thread ? I've assumed you want to continue with your gcc work and own it, is that still the case ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-26 15:26:08 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-25#1953543 << Thank you for the luck wishes. What pace of engagement do you see yourself able to maintain over say, a 30-60 day stretch ?
dorion_road: Generally, my question about your availability to contribute to sorting out some of these early decisions remains of interest.
dorion_road: I'd like to know your thoughts as well. Not just about those, but, e.g. also Gales Linux now that it has been released. Gales bootstraps with busybox, which I know you've been working with.
dorion_road: and spyked on the reasoning for the location of the kernel installation step in the cuntoo bootstrapping script.
dorion_road: trinque you've been highlighted on a couple different tmsr os threads: bvt is curious about what you have to say on the extent to which the bootstrapping/package management/development tools are a source of bloat in Cuntoo.
dorion_road: spyked I left a comment that's in your mod queue http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-188
dorion_road: bvt I left a comment that's in your mod queue http://bvt-trace.net/2019/12/keccak-hashing-for-kernel-rng/comment-page-1/#comment-100
diana_coman: dorion_road: ^ so you can !!up yourself at least while the old voice model is still around.
deedbot: diana_coman rated dorion_road 1 << talking while travelling.
dorion_road: The baseline consideration is, what is the ev of having the already known TMSR bootable bios configs under V ?
dorion_road: s/was TMSR/what TMSR/
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-07 10:36:59 BingoBoingo: spyked: My suspicion is that the cost of acquiring a TMSRbootable board is almost aways going to beat supporting new hardware, unless the new hardware is *very* interesting.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-07#1954458 << I'd tend to agree with the suspicion. First I think it'd be helpful to know the cost of acquiring TMSR bootbable hardware. Defining was TMSR bootbale hardware means and listing the 'known good' board that are already supported by coreboot or similar would be a good start.