344400+ entries in 0.224s
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 23:24:47; adlai: although "in" is a suggestive word, here. I wasn't "in" anything, my acquaintance with
the jail/prison/dungeon/etc system is
tangential, academic, etc
adlai: xml is
too context-unaware,
these days all
the cool scams use RDF
adlai: it's a reference
to 'et omnia ex machina', if i may (deus ex machina meets vanitas vanitatis)
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 23:18:22;
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: Spinning around in my chair screaming at excel.
ascii_butugychag: adlai: is
this a reference
to how i'd like my lisp machine
to be brought as weight
to me peine forte et dure ?
adlai: "want your next meal
to include complimentary vintage symbolics memorabilia? donate extra 3 btc"
adlai: and here by "Bitcoin" i mean b,tmsr~, along with all
the human rabble
trailing along its fringes,and
their fringes, and
theirs, all
the way out
to
the eight billionth... one giant wetware cokemachine.
ascii_butugychag: but he ~could~ have derped on, as many do, despite knowing
that
the perceptron is provably useless
ascii_butugychag: and yes, minsky had nfi
that he would
thermonuke
the whole racket
adlai: ascii_butugychag: fwiw, Bitcoin is its own (decentralized,
to boot!) coke machine
adlai notes
that "full program obfuscation", like "fully homomorphic encryption", Exists less
than even Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: if we wish
to credit phenomena with intension, it did.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: minsky's proof bulldozed funding for 'ai' for many years; often called
the first 'ai winter'
polarbeard: that's why it would be cheap,
the
torturing is only for keeping
the mind busy while
the program inspects it
adlai: in other words, if
the coke machine is +EV,
then bitcoin's Existence will at least prove
that "but he loves you" (carlin)
adlai: polarbeard:
this is not self-inflicted. a being capable of simulating your mind/soul/etc should be able
to drain your btc and subsequently reclaim wasted resources
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 20:03:12; ascii_butugychag: in
that he not only invented neural net, but single-handedly proved
that his original conception (which meanwhile spawned a mega-research-bubble) was a dead end
polarbeard: a cheap way would be
to actually destroy your physical body and upload your mind
to a virtual
torture chamber
ascii_butugychag: 'market can remain irrational longer
than you can remain solvent' (tm) (r)
ascii_butugychag: (gotta have some way of keeping folks from simply busting people out. as usg famously failed
to do in iraq.)
ascii_butugychag: works best as an institution at
the heart of an evil empire with massive standing army, etc.
ascii_butugychag: for completeness,
the operating cost of
the coke machine cannot be assumed
to be zero
adlai: so
the only way i see
this being a +EV sustainable enterprise, rather
than a "let's hope
the next one is hal finney's long-lost grandson", is if you entrap dearly beloved members of families/clans prepared
to enter indentured servitude
to keep
the inmate alive
polarbeard: I like how cube's cover spoils all
the movie in four words: 'fear paranoia suspicion desesperation'
adlai: s/an inmates remain/as long as inmates remain alive, paying out
their btc/
adlai: "all btc" is finite, forever; "btc movable by inmate" is finite per inmate; latter decreases an inmates remain. at some point inmate must know
they'll run out of starvation preventatives, and it's just cost optimization for everybody involved
to opt out
adlai: hypercubechain, entered by unsuspecting cashers-out when
they
tour
their newly-built homes :D
ascii_butugychag: there is certainly precedent; englishmen subjected
to
the peine forte et dure were sometimes permitted
to invite relatives, friends,
to add weights or jump on
the plank
polarbeard: it follows
the current
trend, we will soon watch it in cinemas
polarbeard: cubechain, like cube but with
the blockchain
ascii_butugychag: adlai:
that is part of
the scheme, yes. schmuck can go and beg for ransom
to keep him alive (or alternatively
to pay for a faster death)
adlai: allowing inmates communication with
the outside world (cf "dear dad, send money") widens
the scope beyond even my analytic capabilities
ascii_butugychag: but as with
the old pit dungeons ('zindan') of bukhara, etc.
the 'escape' part is optional
danielpbarron: well
this is
the first mention of
the possibility of escape
ascii_butugychag: at any rate,
this is a bog-standard minor variation on
the ancient
theme of kidnapping, with
the added
twist
that
the victim can pay his own ransom
adlai: danielpbarron: iiuc you don't befriend
them out of pity, you cough up coin
to get your friend back outside of
the matchbox
adlai defers
to an oft-repeated meniism: "if you care about friendly AI, donate
to stephen wolfram" (or was it
that other fanfic author?)
ascii_butugychag: adlai: in practice, it has
to be worth somebody's while
to run
the game
ascii_butugychag: because, for instance, it will soften
the chances of us ending up in one
adlai: hmm,i'm not sure i like
that connotation. can't lotteries be 0EV, zero-sum games?
ascii_butugychag: if adlai knows how
to rigorously prove
the 'coke machine'
to be -EV, i would like
to hear.
adlai refrains from continuing
the "1984 was not a how-to manual" department
adlai: all i'm saying is
that
this is not a sustainable business model
ascii_butugychag: how
to price
the meals, as i said, is a case-by-case matter, it will depend on
the suspected net worth of
the inmate, whether he has someone on
the outside
to supply ransom, etc.
adlai is reminded also of
this one beckett play, ends with
the mime waiting for fingernails
to grow
toa useful length
ascii_butugychag: no coin, no problem,
the floor detects once you've quit breathing and opens
to
the ferment reactor.
adlai: not
that i'm much of an expert on
torture, but my guess is
that you want
to "break"
the victim as quickly as possible, get as many high-value keys in one messy week,
then release spent shell as positive example for next victim
adlai: human brains are
terrible at
this kind of
task (mining/recalling private keys)
ascii_butugychag: how
the coin gets
to
the address, is not specified. perhaps it is posted on
the walls of
the prison. perhaps
there is a place
to key in private key. etc
BingoBoingo: <PeterL> I got my
tax form from my previous emplyer yesterday, realized
they had me down for 11 exemptions and withheld no fed
taxes. << Shoulda made more children
adlai: do you insert
the btc buyers who paid power bill until
today as
the new victims?
adlai: whence
the power bill once all
the prisoners starve out of poverty and/or spite?
ascii_butugychag: for so long as a certain address has a positive btc balance, prisoner gets
to eat.
ascii_butugychag: i predicted
that in
the near future, some people (possibly including some of
the folks here) may find
themselves inside a kind of pit prison
adlai: (rings a bell but i'll have
to verify)
adlai leaves
the inside scoop
to brave men such as chuckles shroom
adlai: although "in" is a suggestive word, here. I wasn't "in" anything, my acquaintance with
the jail/prison/dungeon/etc system is
tangential, academic, etc
☟︎ adlai was arrested in
targential connection with
the international
tulip
trade... or was it some other flower?
adlai: ascii_butugychag: what happened
to
the future-corpses left
to rot?
ascii_butugychag: generally you would not end up in one unless whoever put you
there believed
that someone will come up with
the money
to have you ransomed, or - alternatively - pay
to have you put out of your misery
adlai must confess
that
the first reassuring
thought
that crossed his mind post-arrest was, after
the initial shock wore off, "at least I get what Socrates was killed for deserving"
adlai: mno. you want
the one with
the
TV and complimentary pogoplugs
ascii_butugychag: it is interesting
to read about how dungeon pits worked in
the near east
adlai: ascii_butugychag: prison needs a sovereign benefactor
to maintain, lest it "go private" (or become just a regular old dungeon pit)
thestringpuller: no way
to avoid microshit in a department full of Marketing girls.
ascii_butugychag: 'prison, like
the grave, can find room for everyone' (tm) (r) (ru)
danielpbarron: you guys mean
to say 'prison' ; 'jail' is
temporary holding between arrest and
trial
ascii_butugychag: also
typically
the penalty is confiscation, jail is for especially uppity folks who are judged
to have ~actively~
tried
to cheat
the crown
ascii_butugychag: thestringpuller: but in practice
the folks who sit down in jail are white middle class
types, for whom
the amount owed is known exactly in real
time by usg every
time
they get salary, and never mexican 'illegals' who work for bags of benjie.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: yes. and
the penalty for not paying is jail
time with butt rapin' niggas.
trinque: one switched payroll companies midway
through
the year, and somehow
they both ended up filing a w2 on my behalf, roughly doubling
the amount
the feds expected
to receive until I persuaded
them otherwise
trinque: PeterL: it doesn't hurt
to keep your own calculations on hand; I've had employers screw up in all directions
PeterL: might actually end up owing fed
taxes, usually i get several $k back at
tax
time from
the feds
PeterL: I got my
tax form from my previous emplyer yesterday, realized
they had me down for 11 exemptions and withheld no fed
taxes.
ascii_butugychag: this is why, even if you work for usg,
they pay you and
then you have
to send
the exact amount, ~calculated by you~, back...
ascii_butugychag: (hiring an accountaint does not necessarily prevent
this, by american law, accountant is not liable)
ascii_butugychag: -- it is so
that he gets a chance
to fuck it up and pay mega-penalty
ascii_butugychag: and incidentally, it is well-known why american
tax system is complicated and requires many precise calculations by
the victim
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 19:34:52;
thestringpuller: hanbot: plays diablo?
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 15:26:56; mircea_popescu: ~you~ "gotta" pay an accountant
to keep IRS' files in order. wouldn't it be logical if
THEY had
to come
to you with a "here's how much we
think you owe and if we're wriong we'll goi do
the math again" ? who's
the sovereign here ?
ascii_butugychag: who discovered, and
then ~undiscovered~, apologized for mistake, demolished bubble of charlatans.
ascii_butugychag: the only comparable monument
to scientific honesty i know of was
the fella on
the other side of
the ocean, in su, with polywater