323500+ entries in 0.203s
nubbins`: shinohai what's
that, a joke? spamming
the chan with a video about spam?
jurov: lel can i imagine how would hanbot go if nefario, inaba or anyone billed such "expenses"
to
their shareholders
nubbins`: PeterL
that's your perogative. i would keep
them.
PeterL: as a lucky bettor, I would be willing
to refund
the extra winnings, minus a "processing fee"
nubbins`: mircea_popescu seems
to feel
that fraud accusations have no place in #b-a
nubbins`: PeterL i would, yes. mp would not expect
the lucky bettors
to refund him.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform>nubbins` also seems
to be arguing
that he has some sort of vote in how bbet is run ? <<<...what? link plz.
mircea_popescu: really... could we conduct
the nutso convention on
tardstalk, reddit or whatever usual venue ?
PeterL: <nubbins`> if i send
the light company $100 cash in
the mail because i
think my employer is behind on
their bills, but it
turns out
they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer
to give my $100 back. << you would expect
the power company
to refund you
mircea_popescu shudders
to
think what happens if a woman
tells nubbins off or something
danielpbarron: incidently it's none of our places
to say what it was worth
nubbins`: charging
tx B
to bitbet's liabilities was sinful.
PeterL: I would say getting
the bets paid is not worth 17 btc
danielpbarron: i
thought
this was a principled stand. Now it's just
that 17 was
too much
to pay?
PeterL: if
the cost is worth
the reputation of bitbet paying out
thier winnings,
then he should pay it
nubbins`: danielpbarron you're inventing hypothetical situations and saying "apparently
this'd be fraud"
jurov: danielpbarron: miner would ask much less
than 17btc, dontcha
think?
nubbins`: <+PeterL>should he ask
the bettors
to refund
the money? <<< probably not.
nubbins`: or if hanbot contributed anything useful
to
the realm
PeterL: danielpbarron we would be asking him
to
talk
to a miner and have
the
txn included in a block
nubbins`: i'm curious what would be
the argument if mp had a vagina
nubbins`: why
that specific non-occurrence, anyway?
nubbins`: danielpbarron why are you curious about something
that didn't happen?
nubbins`: if i send
the light company $100 cash in
the mail because i
think my employer is behind on
their bills, but it
turns out
they weren't and everything was just fine, i wouldn't expect my employer
to give my $100 back.
danielpbarron: i'm curious what would be
the argument
today if
there had never been a
transaction B, and
transactions A1-An were still nowhere
to be found..
PeterL: should he ask
the bettors
to refund
the money?
PeterL: it was an overpayment, yes, just like
this is an overpayment
nubbins`: paying
the light bill is when
the company purchases a service (light) for money
PeterL: he did have a loan from MPIF in
the past (to cover a previous mistake), so bitbet having a loan has precedence
danielpbarron: trinque, and since
the alternative was apparently liquidating bbet shares at 0.00001 btc per share, it's absurd
that anyone arguing in favor of
this outcome has
the shareholders interests at heart
ben_vouspes: PeterL: ah,
that's simple!
traders get fired as soon as
they mean revert.
jurov: is sending zerofee
tx acting in good faith?
jurov: PeterL:
that's question of good faith
trinque: "I unilaterally decided
to loan
the company X amount emergency funds
to keep
the lights on." <<
this is not unheard of, if
the officer who made
the decision had
the power
to do so
PeterL: think of it
this way: guy makes a bad investment and loses money for his firm, does he have
to personally repay it or does
the company
take
the loss?
danielpbarron: i don't agree with
the stupid mistake hypothesis either
nubbins`: PeterL
the
thing about stupid mistakes is
that if you realize
they've happened and you DON'T CORRECT
THEM,
they
turn into fraud.
trinque: insofar as an agreement between
the owners defines such
things
trinque: but
that's entirely relevant; management/owners *do* get
to make
those kinds of decisions
PeterL: for
the record, I view it as a stupid mistake on mp's part, not fraud, so I am fine with having sold my shares I will just let
things be
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: well i do but
that's a special case.
nubbins`: ben_vulpes not
trivially, you'd actually have
to click a mouse a bunch of
times or w/e
nubbins`: ben_vulpes if you pay
the pizza guy with your own money, EVEN IF YOU'RE AT WORK, you don't get
to automatically bill work for
the pizza.
ben_vulpes: ah well
that's
trivially answerable is it not?
☟︎ jurov: and
the picture is,
that some people
think
that bitbet's funds are at full disposal of mircea_popescu and he can send zerofee
tx and all is okay... while coinbr, somehow can not, because "broker"?
nubbins`: ben_vulpes
that
transaction B was popescu's personal funds, which he sent of his own free will, AKA a generous donation
to bettors.
danielpbarron: PeterL, i've never run a business, i don't know if
those
things are needed or what
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: and what precisely
the claim's root?
that mircea_popescu paid
twice?
that
the funds were his and
the loan a breach of contract?
danielpbarron: when
that bbet february statement came out, i read it and breathed a sigh of relief, not knowing how controversial it apparently was
jurov: ben_vulpes: mpex withdrawals don't come into picture, my withdrawals would, if i sent
them zerofee
PeterL: danielpbarron if mircea_popescu had sent
the funds
to his wallet and spent
them on hookers and blow, would
that count as fraud or would you let him asses
that as "the cost of doing business"?
nubbins`: everything else is a discussion surrounding
that, or idiots
telling adults not
to have
the discussion
nubbins`: danielpbarron
that disagreement is essentially
the only one on
the
table
ben_vulpes: jurov: how frequently do mpex withdrawals go out with 0-fee
txns?
danielpbarron: well isn't
that
the expectation?
the whole point of
the broker is
to hold
the funds, and place
the orders on my behalf..
nubbins`: danielpbarron you're steadfastly dodging
the point
that MP's fraudulent math is
the issue. IDGAF if it's bbet or him and vexual playing dice
PeterL: danielpbarron
they have an expectation
that
their funds will be used with fiduciary integrity
danielpbarron: jurov, i don't see
the relation. shareholders of bbet never had an expection
to control what happens with bbet funds
nubbins`: he doesn't wanna list a scam fund any more
than kako wants
to own one
nubbins`: ^ as admin of CoinBr,
the current situation directly affects jurov. maybe
that's why jurov and kako are
the only ones not 100% complicit in
this scheme
jurov: being loud at
the forum
jurov: trinque so, i'll
throw your funds at coinbr by sending around zerofee
tx, malformed mpex requests, etc. you'll only negrate me and do nothing else?
nubbins`: don't feel like it. what's with all
the imperatives? nobody
to boss around in
the
trailer park?
nubbins` invites all
to count
the number of pages of woodcollector
threads on
the forum
nubbins`: jurov a blessing from
the king will do
that.
trinque: define fraud in
the context of an unregistered corporation, and what
the recourse shall be under no laws which define fraud?
jurov: asciilifeform: so if i have an opinion about a fraud
that does not directyl concern mne, i should stay silent? cuz
this is not a democracy?
nubbins`: what i do give a shit about is people owning up
to
their mistakes
PeterL: you could short
the stock?
nubbins`: trinque i'd like
to
think i've provided facts in an offensive manner
nubbins`: danielpbarron direct mirror response
to asciilifeform's statement, keep up or stfu
trinque: there's a difference between offending someone with
the
truth as a matter of
tactics, and doing it
to
the exclusion of sense
danielpbarron: "do you disagree
that X's corrosive attitude is a Bad
Thing and subtracts from Y" is like a USG memo card for filipino spammers
nubbins`: for emphasis: Pros don't give a shit, it's
the clueless
twits and assorted pretenders
that do.
nubbins`: Professional does not imply any restriction of form.ii You are free
to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel
the need or inclination
to be.
This includes any and all comments
that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's
the clueless
twits and assorted pretenders
that do.
nubbins`: asciilifeform do you disagree
that mp's corrosive attitude is a Bad
Thing and subtracts from otherwise good ___?
nubbins`: asciilifeform got a link? i don't
think he's said anything
to me lately
nubbins`: trinque
that's not
the question
trinque: companies make errors
that cost money, either due
to
their own mistakes or externalities;
that's life
danielpbarron: there is no right
thing. It's Mircea's
thing like it or not
nubbins`: you'd make a better profit bumming change outside
the metro