306200+ entries in 2.467s
ThickAsThieves: if AM doesnt payout any hardware sales this div, there will be
a lot of sad pandas
kakobrekla: >Don't worry about me. This is normal (for me, at least). Finland is
a good country as regards the treatment of nuts.
ericmuys_: most paid for
a degree and collect
a 9-5 salary at
a keyboard doing C# PHP or something, that's it.
truffles: are u having
a great day today?
truffles: i guess in my mind
a programmer already knows how to do circuit wirings..
dub:
a network engineer on sake and tramadol
truffles: whats higher than
a programmer in cyberworld?
truffles: well i get accused of being
a troll itc
dub: might be
a hard sell with guild though :)
dub: would be
a good test
dub:
a hard fork to sink AM
truffles: <ThickAsThieves>
a sleeper investment isnt found by people thatthru greed>>> so far thats all i see in btc land
ThickAsThieves:
a sleeper investment isnt found by people thatthru greed
BitHub: asicminer as
a company probably has 200th up their sleeve, just sitting there waiting
ericmuys_: unless he bought at >= 2.2, I wouldn't call it
a loss because cashing out early != losing, but it's
a very similar analogy in that *the math* is correct, but the logic is twisted, just like his article.
ericmuys_: furuknap: if he does, he's doing you
a huge favor. i'm not going to bother
fiat500: right now im trying to find
a sweet security to invest in
fiat500: furuknap: alright man, im going to sit and build
a formal proof for you later today
ericmuys_: I'm joking, but you need to take
a step back away from the monitor
furuknap: If instead you _contracted_ someone at the low rate that you could later resell at
a higher rate, then you might be closer.
ericmuys_: you're wasting
a bunch of peoples time on nonsense. I want my 10 minutes back
furuknap: You analogy is completely irrelevant in that you don't retain your hours for later resale at
a higher value.
fiat500: parallel to your argument furuknap is: i have
a pc that i do software dev on for an hourly rate, hence the lower my hourly rate the more i profit because the value of my pc denominated by my hourly rate increases
ThickAsThieves: my guess is you used
a million words to say stuff we already discussed
ericmuys_: buying
a few machines that do nothing but hash sha256 don't warrant more than one company. the existing company and new company have one purpose: sha256. would not touch with 10 foot pole.
ericmuys_: makes more sense to keep
a good reputation on your word and put them into ABM, try to revise the contract with stock holder majority?
fiat500: PsychoticBoy: have you considered using the funds to purchase
a second mining rig
ericmuys_: PsychoticBoy: so how are you, and I quote ABM, doing "the best we can to give you the highest possible mining revenue." by starting
a new asset? what about the existing ABM investors? did you buyback?
PsychoticBoy:
a pool which is private and owned by
a large member of the community
fiat500: PsychoticBoy: is it currently hooked up to
a mining pool?
furuknap: Do it properly. Set up
a thread, discuss it, announce it, get feedback on contracts and proposal, answer any lingering questions, etc. Then you launch.
Chaaang-Noi: there seems to be
a lot of people at the bitcoin event
PsychoticBoy: and it is perpetual mining bond at
a fixed MH/s
furuknap: fiat, he just told you the numbers. It's
a 65 GHs Avalon. The math from there is pretty basic.
PsychoticBoy: Should I start
a 100 or 500Mh/s perpetual mining bond?
furuknap: It seems to me, at least on the surface, that GOG.F is
a reasonable purchase. Timing is actually less important if the manager is reasonable (like Chaang says). 2.5 BTC invested in mining is 2.5 BTC invested in mining regardless of when it happens. If the investment is sound, it doesn't really matter when that happens.
parseval: True.. I think the COG.F shares were priced
a little high. 2.0 would have been better than 2.5
Chaaang-Noi: i think cog might be
a bit over valued, but im using it as
a hedge
fiat500: then it would make more sense for me to just order
a single for myself right now
Chaaang-Noi: honestly i dont know
a whole lot about it other than what i have told you guys
Chaaang-Noi: i dont know, im just
a 5% stock holder, i dont pick what happens
furuknap: I don't see why they couldn't used the raised funds to make purchases already, though. I mean, if
a great deal comes up and they're short
a few bonds, they lose out even if they have the funds at hand.
Chaaang-Noi: yeah i hold cog as
a hedge against my AM, cuz they are heavy avalon and BFL
furuknap: Ah, so basically, it's
a bet that the price of cognitive is higher than 0.125 at the time BFL ships.
Chaaang-Noi: he has about 20k usd worth of my btc, and im about to give him
a shit load more
fiat500: If there isn't enough demand to purchase
a single bitcoin miner after
a week of the first sale of
a COG.F contract, COG.F purchases will be refunded."
fiat500: "One (1) COG.F represents
a contract for twenty (20) COGNITIVE shares, to be delivered upon arrival of said mining hardware.
ericmuys_: furuknap: sure but that's only in
a vacuum situation where B and C are tied. they are not in reality. this logic is just twisted
furuknap: eric: You probably don't understand something in that article. The GPOU and BTC is irrelevant. Difficulty is irrelevant. Mining is irrelevant. USD is irrelevant. Hence the
A, B, and C in the first part of the article.
ericmuys_: crashes, the amount of Bitcoin our holdings represent goes through the roof!" - that's only if the value of
a USD is directly polar to
a BTC, but it's not,
a USD is based on
a world of economics and BTC can capitalize on that.
furuknap: In fact, like I showed in the updated question today, you have
a 10x higher profitability in $ if the price goes down.
fiat500: i mean i am not simply
a holder, there is
a positive delta of coins worth $x * n being generated
furuknap: Then you're no longer
a miner, but
a coin holder, and the argument doesn't apply.
furuknap: Doesn't really matter.
A price drop is still more favorable for miners.
truffles: so u say, but seems like
a speculators game at the moment
furuknap: That's
a result of the exchange value. If prices drop, you get more BTC for your holdings. This will, even with realistic numbers, far outweigh any mining profit.
ericmuys_: keep them happy and keep the price going up steadily. and it seems like there's only
a large dividend once or twice
a month. he's probably not doing this, but it's funny that he could and it just pumps his company to extraordinary levels, but everyone remains happy if the funds (his shares) dont dry up
ericmuys_: why can't the dividends continue? this thing didn't just start rising, it's been rising for months with consistently good dividends. what are you going to pull out and put it into? sdice? the funny thing about the dividends is friedcat could cash out as the price is rising and pay that as
a dividend and it would be insignificant. 150 BTC * $125 = $19000. once
a week, cash out 20k and pay it to the growing herd to
furuknap: Assbot really need to show options in
a special way.
furuknap: Heh, good ole WB has
a lot of things right.
mircea_popescu: you're talking to the one guy who prevented that back when it actually had
a chance.
furuknap: It could very well be that someone overheard that
a VC might enter and thought the tender would be higher than market.
mircea_popescu: there's
a crowd of idiots who want to invest in-crowd.
pizzaman1337: ASICMINER was discussed at one of the panels at bitcoin2013 earlier today, this could be
a VC getting around to dumping some money in
furuknap: The major difference is that there is no fundamental value of AM to support such
a high price. At 1.0, the value is higher than the price. At 2.0 the price is higher than the value.
furuknap: I hope this buyer has
a lot of spare money and really, really doesn't mind losing it.
mircea_popescu: i'm
a monomaniac sort of guy. i idle in one irc channel only. i handle one cryptocurrency only.
furuknap:
A lot of mining operations popping up on LTC now could greatly benefit from hedging against price fluctuations.
A fund that does LTC mining combined with
a sound hedging strategy could really make
a killing.
furuknap: ASICs is
a specialized piece of hardware that doesn't really have any resell value after
a relatively short time. GPUs on the other hand has resale value, can be fixed, tuned, and easily replaced, and in some cases, it can even make sense to have
a few spares laying around because unused cards don't depreciate much and thus isn't an asset cost.
furuknap: When I talk to financial people, they tend to argue that "well, buying hardware is so much of
a hassle, and what if it breaks? You're left with nothing!" not realizing how
a miner with some hardwre competence can fix or replace hardware as easily as they purchase an option or future.
mircea_popescu: really slow uptake. i guess that's what you get when something starts as
a hobbist market : hobbists.
furuknap: That is, and I'm not joking, the topic of my next article :-) Miners have
a limited understanding of finance, just as financial people have
a limited understanding of mining. When I talk to miners, they seem to argue that "just holding coins is really bad if the price drops while
a miner can always resell his hardware" and not understanding anything about hedges in finance.
furuknap: I'm not sure it is as random as that. I wrote the article based on
a lot of questions asked on the Reddit forums and people universally tended to completely ignore the effect of price fluctuations of their gear. One miner had just bought around 50 GPUs and hadn't realized that when the price of LTC dropped, he actually earned more from just having that gear than from mining.