log☇︎
298100+ entries in 2.347s
KRS1337: i dont see the network at this point to keep up with transactional data sufficient for btc to be a currency..doubt it will evar be there =(
KRS1337: just like i was trusting my friend about mining til i realized he was trolling me to buy my gpu's
mjr_: i just trust that you don't have the ability to double spend (not trivial)
mjr_: its not even that i trust you as a person
mjr_: i don't need to wait
mjr_: for example, i have done business with you every day
KRS1337: i dun see it..
KRS1337: am i supposed to wait there while the gas station receives my btc?
KRS1337: i never understood how ppl can call it a currency, maybe theres something im not understanding.
mjr_: what difference does it make if i hold 4 5's or one twenty
mjr_: so i don't think that is an apt analogy
bgupta: I tend to agree, that there is a share of people out there buying this shit with money they can't afford to lose. Including So EU folks. However, I do wonder if "real money" will at some point also chose to dip their toes in the water?
mjr_: i totally agree
mjr_: but this is what i was saying...if everyone tomorrow says "i heard of this thing called bitcoin, i will get 1 bitcoin" and there are a million of them
mjr_: i agree
mjr_: and i agree...i'm just saying that this is the network effect in action
mircea_popescu: i understand what you're saying but i think you're focusing on relatively small signals
mjr_: oh wait, now i can...adopt
mjr_: for exapmle, i'm western union...i can't move any signifigant amount of money over btc network
mjr_: i may not be a long term believer
mjr_: i can sell immediately
mjr_: i now own a bitcoin...i am a part of the bitcoin economy
mircea_popescu: by that logic every time i pay a waitress i'm getting married
mircea_popescu: that's too loose for this convo i think
mircea_popescu: you know what i mean.
mjr_: how can i not buy a bitcoin? i guaranttee i can buy one right now
mjr_: i have x amount of cash, i CAN buy a bitcoin
Bugpowder: I wish I had confidence that gox wont explode with my money
Bugpowder: I wish I was trusted
Bugpowder: I talked to someone that holds 100k last night
ThickAsThieves: i'll have to be more careful
jurov: meteors fall, not rise, I guess?
mircea_popescu: depends. last month i think they did yea
Bugpowder: I sold some at 121 and 123
Bugpowder: I thought it got crazy before I went to bed
mjr_: from my perspective, what survives is what should have survived, a little tautological i know, but that is how the world works
mjr_: TradeFortress: true, and i think that should be where it goes
mjr_: TradeFortress: i agree...but in a capitalistic sense, you can choose what people offer or make your own, i think for long term adoption backward compatiblity is of course necessary
TradeFortress: I can send emails fine using ancient software.
TradeFortress: mjr_ I still don't like how I can't use v0.3 or something. and not be able to get on the bitcoin network
mircea_popescu: and b. if you do do it i will insulate you from market downturn
mircea_popescu: a. i am your regulator, if you don't i'll fuck you with my nonsensical regulations
mircea_popescu: mjr_ what if i tell you that
mjr_: hey, you can ask me to lend to whoever you want...if i do it...my fault
ChaangNoi: i was not picking a side here, just correcting what was said
TradeFortress: mircea_popescu, I'm guessing owner bet a lot of coins on them shipping.
mjr_: TBH i think that most people cannot face this brave new world
mjr_: i wonder...what would have happened if they hadn't...hard to tell at this point
mjr_: well...i think there is always a choice, but i also think most are too stupid to make one, but no choice is a choice
mircea_popescu: mjr_ i don't think they had a choice tbh.
mjr_: i thought the roll back was stupid...why go to the incorrect chain
mjr_: at least i hope
mjr_: now with asics i think you will see more solo mining
mjr_: but at the end of the day, "the market decides" and it decides to follow gavin i guess
mircea_popescu: i am just trying to delineate the heavier problems we face,
mircea_popescu: i am not disputing their right here.
mjr_: oh i agree its a problem
mircea_popescu: so it's a problem, all i'm sayin'.
mjr_: i don't know, they could have been sheepishly following
mjr_: but i think they took into account the fact that a fork could have damaged their long term gains into account
mjr_: well, i agree
mjr_: i just mean that you could have lobbied for the longer chain...or miners who wanted to continue that path could have
mircea_popescu: you have to presume some choice was made. i have my doubts those heads were working.
mircea_popescu: not really, i guess.
bgupta: mircea_popescu: You are correct I don't understand.. I only understand the technical issue with the fork, not the economic or social implications.. is there a more theorough analysis out there?
TradeFortress: about 400 btc total was the withdrawls I know of, but I'm not sure how much coins were lost in bitcoinrain
mircea_popescu: bgupta i agree that a correctly functioning bitcoin would have been fucked in that situation, and so "good" that it was broken.
mircea_popescu: TradeFortress i missed that one ?
bgupta: (I agree with you there)
bgupta: I supose it has it's bad and good. broken code got fixed… bad that broken code existed for so long, even though people knew about it
mircea_popescu: i am aware.
bgupta: ah, the english word I would use is delusionary.. delusive, is more like deceitful.
taub: and i dont think they can be used like that right now
taub: i find short term option plays difficult anyway
mjr_: i meant use exchanges to move from fiat to btc
bgupta: I was actually wondering if it would work to setup a subsidiary of a US company to do the trading.. and report the profits overseas in a low tax environment.
bgupta: at least from my current reading of the rules… staying in btc means that I am not subject to taxes.
mjr_: that's why i said bitfloor
bgupta: well as soon as I convert to fiat, it's subject to trading taxes.. and coinlab reports.
bgupta: I don't plan to use btc/fiat echanges any time soon, at least not gox.. as I'm in US and the whole rcoinlab thing seems a shame
bgupta: I imagine that folks that need to move large amounts don't use standard gox
mircea_popescu: private as in i know about it, you don't.
mircea_popescu: i don't know what street has to do with anything ?
TradeFortress: well I do.
bgupta: is mtgox the main place to do fiat/btc trading? (I know they have like 70% or something, but they have wierd transfer limits and stuff.
mjr_: i love the new au feature of goxlag
mircea_popescu: i don't much care either way.
bgupta: I think the point being that if litecoin gets listed it will be in the news too
ChaangNoi: i just sold 900 nmc lol and now its way way up
bgupta: ltc I sorta get. nmc, seems kinda sily.
dub: I suggested that maybe the concentrate on supporting btc first
bgupta: I wish he would fix the broken shit, before adding litecoin
bgupta: ltc spiked on mtgox rumors, that's all I think
ChaangNoi: i think its just funny it went up like 10,000% in 2 months or so
mjr_: i was mostly joking about 188 calls...
mircea_popescu: now i see "invalid symbol"
mircea_popescu: no. i just don't want it to bubble.
mircea_popescu: dude i'm so impressed. the market listened. thank you!
taub: i dont trade options
taub: i'm confident i'll get my fill still in the next 7 mins, the order got sent before the big drop