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ThickAsThieves: i am stil on BFL's mailing list

kakobrekla: i think commenting counts as using the service.

Neil: Closest I've seen to a spec is the wiki, and that's full of holes and exceedingly vague in places

pankkake: well they could standardize some stuff I guess

pankkake: sure, ideally. but I think it's too soon

Neil: I haven't even seen any effort at writing such a standard

Neil: Good, I bet against too

jurov: no i voted against. and RFC-style standard is meant, not just code

pankkake: was that a project? I thought the bitcoin standard was "bitcoind" for the devs

fractal: "If I would have taken that same $1500 I spent at that time and just bought bitcoins I would have gotten 214 btc, or in $27500 at current prices, FML"

fractal: looks like they're starting to learn -- http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lc025/so_today_is_the_day_i_start_mining_with_my_or_or/cbxt3w9

fractal: but i've been saying that this is the right way to do mining calcs for a while -- just too lazy to have done it myself ;)

fractal: the thing i like about this calc http://www.btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php is that they also show a chart which will help n00bs understand exactly what diminishing returns look like ... i always hear 'oh, i'll just keep this USB Block Erupter going for the next 12 months until it ROIs'

mircea_popescu: i know i sux

mircea_popescu: fractal i'd link you to the article if i actually had a motherfducking blog ;/

ThickAsThieves: while i agree, consider what they mightve done with the coins in their pocket instead...

fractal: i'm glad they also show you the BTC buy and hold -- most people say stupid things like 'well, if i dont get my entire BTC back, i'll still be up if the exchange rate rises!'

jborkl: I did not say which side the heat sinks sits on- just that was the mount hole for it

fractal: i sat through flame wars telling n00bs their batch 3 would never ROI

fractal: they delivered sucessfully on batch 1 on ROI terms... i guess people took a chance.... batch 3 was a red flag on price from the get-go though

mircea_popescu: i must agree, steamboat is handling tyhings pretty well considering.

ThickAsThieves: what i dont get, is why anyone would spend money after batch 1

mircea_popescu: o o o i see

mircea_popescu: somebody with more hardware knowledge than me : wtf are the holes http://i.imgur.com/oLiVXmJ.jpg ?

fractal: jurov: I had a friend who was close to ordering 10K chips from avalon -- i convinced him not to due to uncertainty, and that their batch1 and batch2 were late

mircea_popescu: fractal i think it happened once or twice, there was some bet about some sporting event or pageant or w/e that got cancelled.

mircea_popescu: fractal i suspect they massacre goats.

ThickAsThieves: i could weave in some porn links if you are feeling nostalgic :)

mircea_popescu: i'm just part owner.

Duffer1: TaT I think you would like a website called Fark.com :P

ThickAsThieves: "Dear Kickstarter, .... A good number of our backer profiles have no previous Kickstarter history. These profiles joined in July/August 2013, and have profile pictures of famous celebrities instead of real people. I previously reached out to Amazon Payments for clarification and they suggested I get in touch with you."

ThickAsThieves: i wonder if Steam will carry BTCT one day

ThickAsThieves: i dont think they rule til its time

Anduck: is there a ruling about that yet i was wondering

fractal: mircea_popescu: I'm pretty confident that someone will make a 14nm chip that does over 2Th/sec ... care to make a BitBet on it?? ;)

fractal: mircea_popescu: I thinking is that that Intel is full of smart people, and they'd be able to build it for much less then $500mm.... I could be wrong, of course.

mircea_popescu: i've rarely met people capable of making others stupid just through contact, like gmaxwell is. some talent.

fractal: mircea_popescu: really? thats way more then I thought... Cointerra and others are rumoured to be spending $5M on masks for their 28nm chips.... I never thought it would be such a big jump from $5M to $500M for 14nm... crazy...!!!!

jborkl: and I am going to go pick up a free chip mask at AMD on the way home

jborkl: ok, I am out of here- my head is going to explode

ThickAsThieves: sry i'm breaking channel rules

fractal: can't belive what sort of shitstorm i caused ;)

fractal: understand what? I just said Intel could own 50% hashrate fairly easily

fractal: mircea_popescu: I dunno, their CEO was a samgsumg lead designer -- he sounds credible

jborkl: ok, i'm in now

fractal: they're on 28nm. i think intel could do better... 2TH at 14nm.

mircea_popescu: ok, im claiming i have a miniaturized woman that's 2 inches tall and shits little diamonds.

mircea_popescu: i tjhink you need to do the math harder.

ThickAsThieves: no i mentioned it earlier dub

dub: I thing killing everyone so they cant die fits better

fractal: jborkl: no, just saying it would be better if no single entity could have an easy time manufacuring chips that could attack the network..... i.e. its easy for Intel to make 1Th/sec chips and own 50% right away.... but its hard for a signle entitity to buy and setup 250,000 computers mining in a warehouse to own 50% right away

jborkl: my spelling sucks btw, last time I will say that

jborkl: fractal: you are advocationg cpu mining with a sata and ram? I just want to clarify

fractal: mircea_popescu: I can fab my own chips at home?

fractal: mircea_popescu: ok, basically, i suppose state actors have the most resources, and can centralize mining if they wished ...

fractal: mircea_popescu: you're right... i just looked it up and samsung is making 14nm as well...

jborkl: I am not advocating giga, btw

mircea_popescu: i guess that's why you don't get a vote then

fractal: I dont know if its possible for such a PoW to exist -- but i think it can be close

mircea_popescu: what makes you think i'm not humble when you display the unmitigated audacity to pick numbers ?

fractal: mircea_popescu: I understand that custom hardware could be build for any algo, but my goal would to make it not cost-effective until the coin had a market cap of say $100B

fractal: All I see is mining centralization which will end when Intel builds 14nm chips in 2015

fractal: Am I the only person who thinks that the network will be stronger if the PoW was changed to a algo that couldn't be performed in custom hardware? (i..e gpu's only)

jborkl: not that i did before heh

jborkl: you sure, I have seen stuff today that is leading to think they are never coming

ThickAsThieves: i recall the girl not realizing how many coins AM had actually paid out to shareholders

mircea_popescu: what, i'm very humble.

mircea_popescu: it's happened that i was wrong im pretty sure.

fractal: hahahah you gotta love mircea_popescu's confidence ;) i actaully love seeing MPOE-PR posts on the forums and the rage replies.... although it will only work as long as he's right about everything ;)

zoinky: people still laugh if i mention bitcoin

mircea_popescu: i disagree.

fractal: Basically the NSA government uses large corp's to help them gather information -- nothing that is surprising or out of the ordinary. i dont know why people are shocked at the news. all states , communist, fascist, or otherwise do this

fractal: mircea_popescu: maybe... it will be interesting to see how it plays out in a few years. i predict the US minting virtual currency is a certainty at some point

zoinky: even if they did, i bet the exchange rate to BTC would be the same as USD

fractal: ThickAsThieves: although, I see when governments realize what crypto-currency implications are -- they will issue state-sanctioned alt-chains.... this the the only thread to BTC

jurov: ^ i have a bit of an issue with this :)

ThickAsThieves: i tried telling my wife this stuff last night

fractal: I really think world governments have no clue what is going to hit them in 2-3 years

mircea_popescu: fractal i doubt large holders will ever sell.

mircea_popescu: i would guess group 1 median is somewhere in the 50k range. group 2 median probably about 80-150 btc

fractal: ThickAsThieves: thats what i've gathered from reading forums -- one guy talked about mining 50K coins and then formatting his HD

fractal: i think less then 5000 people have 1000BTC

ThickAsThieves: i wanna know how many people have bitcoins

mod6: i care not.

fractal: ThickAsThieves: i'm extrapolating for world-wide BTC usage in the future

fractal: cool.. I think 2,100 is a good goal for someone with a lot of money, and very bullish on bitcoin -- mathmatically no more then 10,000 people can own as much as you, and in reality it will likely be 1000 or less in the future

fractal: I'm just thinking that, if someone wanted to be top 5000 richest BTC in the world, how many would he need to buy right now?

ThickAsThieves: i think it will hit 0 before .1

ThickAsThieves: "and just for the record, I think he's really good at running an exchange that has no securities."

fractal: i'll buy under .1 , maybe

fractal: I've been short AM since 0.4

ThickAsThieves: re labcoiners hating mp "I agree 100%. Right after his little post I thought "wow, didn't he show this same distaste towards asicminer at one point?" This was the biggest signal for me, and I bought up a shitload.. "

ThickAsThieves: what am i missing here?

ThickAsThieves: "I'm extremely happy that Friedcat returned that transaction fee mistake. Integrity is worth a lot more than 200 coins (no matter what BTC ends up being worth)."

Anduck: i put the link there.. no need to spam it more :O

Anduck: mircea_popescu: i just want the bet to be resolved correctly :)

mircea_popescu: the thing is i know what doesn't work, i don't need to experiment to discover what's wrong with boiler rooms, wash trading, pump and dumps or all the rest of the "internet investment" stuff.

fractal: but i suppose 'if its not broken, dont fix it' can be a valid argument sometimes as well

fractal: i..e launching multiple sites with diff fees/features and seeing what works

fractal: mircea_popescu: i've always thought that becoming my own competition is the best way to provide the most efficient service to a market...