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ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because I've been working on my startup for no salary?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because I don't have assets?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, you are quite mistaken in your understanding that I don't like the paying back part.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I'm from the USA but at the moment I'm not living there, I've been working on my proprietary hardware startup in a much lower-income country.
asciilifeform: am i mistaken in my understanding that you don't like the 'paying back' part ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think you have to have a residence and income
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, "then borrow it from whoever". Funny how that goes, isn't it? That loan is how I came into this channel. It doesn't work like that.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I am not interested in being involved with the local mob. You seem to consider this a short-term thing, but that's not at all what I stated, is it?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't know how to turn it into $8.5M. If I did I wouldn't be talking about the next 40 years, would I?
ninjashogun: That doesn't mean I consider it a lot of money.
ninjashogun: I don't htink $8.5M is a fortune. if I had that in cash today I wouldn't sit on it, I would do further startups.
mircea_popescu: i wish us schools went back to teaching logic and shit instead of all this self esteem and marketing bs they do
ninjashogun: I don't have to be zuck to repay $8.5M. Tens of thousands of people can do it, not just a few hundred billionaires.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, fine. Lend me $17,000 now and at some point in my career I will repay you 500x (8.5M). I am 30 now and it has to be in the next 30 years.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, the way I interpret that is that Steve Jobs used the $5000 to start Apple and make his friend a billionaire.
asciilifeform: (for many years i thought 'making hasty pudding' meant 'shitting one's pants.')
ninjashogun: I know it from trying to build a hardware business, and suddenly seeing that none of that sliver is interested.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, yes, I know this.
mircea_popescu: you don't understand dood, i read in the guardian that the us caught a bunch of russian spies by displaying a dazzling array of technical superiority.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I've lived in Boston, New York, San Francisco, Paris, Berlin (a bit) as well as some Eastern European cities. I've been interested in startups in all of them, have worked for one in the first dot-com bubble in the 90's. I can tell the difference between different climates and how people behave in them.
ThickAsThieves: problem is i'm not ready to commit to being a "CEO" of anything
ThickAsThieves: if i had access to reliable and worthy crypto developers i'd have probably spat out several companies and things by now
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I'm sorry you are factually mistaken.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think it takes hash of something and signs it (with embedded key) then shits it out
ThickAsThieves: i will
ThickAsThieves: i'm more likely to "
ThickAsThieves: i did end up with some with some ATC, but haven't had the chance to keep up with it. it seems without tender loving care it cannot thrive.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, well the main problem is that you need to reserve your hardest edge for when you need it the most. I've spend very long hours discussing very deep technical points without calling something "idiotic". It can be broken, wrong, unexpected, totally incompatible, etc. Those words are more specific.
ninjashogun: I agree. The job of a founder is to create a half-lie, and the job of the cofounders and early employees is to add the other half.
ninjashogun: Likewise, I've talked with MANY people associated with YCombinator-backed startups (the most famous incubator) and worked for one.
ninjashogun: Dimsler, I think some aspects of recruiting cofounders, investors, and even customers, have something in common with 'scamming'. So is putting an MVP up.
ughlol: Dont get butthurt because I forgot to say I love you.
ughlol: Dimsler: yeah yeah, blah. I love you too. Happy?
ughlol: I look real old dont I :/
ninjashogun: I thought you were about 21
ughlol: and mircea_popescu, thanks for pointing out that rent-seeking thing.. I think I understand what you mean. :) I'll work on changing the idea and creating a prototype! <3
ninjashogun: however as I mentioned to you there are a TON of sources of interest to you once you have users.
ninjashogun: to get from where I am today to an MVP will probably take me a month.
ughlol: Yes, I'll work hard towards developing a prototype and getting users.
ninjashogun: for example (this is laugh-worthy) I have just used vagrant to get a PHP server up. I've never used PHP (used Python a bit, as well as C++ and Perl).
mircea_popescu: i drink, sure. but that's a drug now ?
mircea_popescu: i suspect i'm the only clean one here actually.
ughlol: thats what I like about rich people
ughlol: I love you too Dimsler
ughlol: they insult, bit at least I can learn something
ughlol: ninjashogun: I agree. I will get to that immediately. :)
ughlol: do i really sound like that?
benkay: can i list on mpex?
benkay: hey guys i'm going to copy whatsapp
ninjashogun: benkay - as I probably mentioned, ughlol is not "founder material", today, in several senses. He is in India, with a very poor VC network, he is currently a university student who has never run a business, and he does not have a personal network that makes him investable. I don't necessarily suggest investing in him today.
benkay: ninjashogun: the notion that ughlol is founder material falls on its face when he dances like a monkey in here asking "how ams i even make money guys?"
ughlol: mircea_popescu: do you have any suggestions on how I may modify the idea to expand the pie instead of redistribute it?
ughlol: mircea_popescu: So I would need to create an economic activity that expands the pie
ughlol: mircea_popescu: I agree.. yes.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: you didn't tell me, you said I need to change the idea. Completely? In what way?
ughlol: I agree.
benkay: kakobrekla: i think tiberius is back
ninjashogun: ughlol, you can interact with him here. But I woudn't solicit funding at this stage.
ughlol: I wanted to interact with mircea_popescu ..
ninjashogun: and I also think that ughlol is wrong to do so.
ninjashogun: benkay - no, I don't seek investment here
ninjashogun: benkay because (I heard this from a guy named rmah, active on #startups) because VC's are WAY better salesmen than you or I will ever be.
mircea_popescu: so i guess now you can appreciate the luck point.
ughlol: I was very impressed with mircea_popescu's suggestions last time.. thought I would give it a shot.
ninjashogun: I told ughlol as much.
ninjashogun: I also consider it a terrible suggestion to ask for funding here, so on that I'm agreed.
ninjashogun: Dimsler, I haven't asked for anything.
ninjashogun: Dimsler, did you catch the fact that I posted my whole convo (where I first met him) with ughlol?
Dimsler: i'm not aggro
Dimsler: i dunno
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun i think you perhaps misjudge the quantity of luck involved in facebook becoming facebook.
mircea_popescu: i don't have a very good impression of either.
mircea_popescu: that much i understand.
ninjashogun: is the one I'm talking about.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I saw your article on ughlol and think it completely misrepresents ughlol's idea and is extremely unfair. As long as it includes no identifying information, it's a simple troll and abuse of your power - which is fine. It will disappear off the Internet and nobody will read it again. However it is in no way accurate based on my conversation with him.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: simple question, if i create a prototype for the app that i want to build, would you even consider investing in it?
ninjashogun: ughlol - access to mirceau (I just read the most recent few lines, haven't been reading scrollback) is, as he correctly states, a VERY good opportunity
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i dun imagine there's any proceeding to be had.
mircea_popescu: i'm currently donating my time discussing things with people who otherwise would never get to talk to me, because i believe in some things.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: I wont ask you about investment. Just want to learn and understand your opinion. I read your blog article, and what you say makes a lot of sense. Thats why.
ughlol: Dimsler: Yes, I am sure I can learn something from him. Hence I want to talk.
ughlol: Thats my dream, which I might never reach.
ughlol: But I admire billionaires.
ughlol: I know im practically nothing, and probably don't even deserve talking to someone like you.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: let me know if you have 10minutes to spare.. after that, I'll not bother you.
ughlol: If he asks me to leave, I'll gtfo.
ughlol: I feel theres nothing wrong in that.
ughlol: If he says he's not interested, I'll leave immediately.
ughlol: I wanted to speak to mircea_popescu .
steven-__: Mar 17 22:52:22 <ughlol> though i've never used it for any of my projects
dub: why didnt you say so? where to I sign
ughlol: no BingoBoingo.. I haven't..
Dimsler: no i think thats fact
ughlol: nubbins`: because I think I have an idea that works.
Dimsler: i know
ughlol: I bet you dont have the guts either way.
Dimsler: should i write out for you?
nubbins`: it's why i weep for tomorrow
ughlol: Dimsler: :) You're so full of yourself. Give me your name, and I'll destroy your rep. Only if you have the courage.
ninjashogun: ughlol - it's the nature of htis channel, I told you