log☇︎
199700+ entries in 0.12s
asciilifeform: trinque: i wonder how much of this is from a cargo-cult preference for 'what programmer monkeys WOULDN'T use'
mircea_popescu: that's the problem of wastage in opaque faux capitalism.
mircea_popescu: i didn't propose they run the hft over excel
asciilifeform: in what sense could a system that runs on excel etc. be described as 'high frequency' ?
mircea_popescu: and no, the excel mentiuon was not a throwaway joke. it is factual reality, even today.
asciilifeform: that makes for at least 2 publicly-known designated-winners-losers equivalence classes. probably there are more.
mircea_popescu: au contraire, you'd be petrified what they run on.
mircea_popescu: so, with some regret, i will confess that no, high finance doth not qualify as that place where they have real software (tm).
asciilifeform: ( in combination with 'it dun matter if you make it 5ns faster, packets from goldman sachs still take magical priority on the other end, For Reasons' )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform picture this : if tomorrow north korea came up with superlight hft method and tried to apply it... suddenly front running would be simply illegal.
asciilifeform: now i could easily picture 'crown tax is so high, only imbecile hapsburg can afford it, so no optimize'
mircea_popescu: the people paying themselves megabux aren't going to be doing for the reason they told you they did it.
asciilifeform: the people paying megabux for cage near nyse, nasdaq, either exist or are product of elaborate disinfo. if the former, it would make sense for them to carry out the -- comparatively inexpensive -- software optimization prior to buying $mil cage.
mircea_popescu: how exactly this is disbursed, whether you need rifle to hunt and then crown taxes rifles, ie, through a technically mediated barrier, or purely conventional, is not properly speaking a technical discussion.
mircea_popescu: it's a complicated discussion to carry in those terms.
asciilifeform: ( it they do not exist, it is then a piece of evidence in favour of 'hft does not actually exist, you cannot actually make any money by undercutting by nanosecond ' )
mircea_popescu: then someone piled a java machine on top of that.
mircea_popescu: yes, someone somewhere wrote the asm
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same relationship as between script kiddie and trojan writers
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: whether or not the 'nanosecs matter and we write it in asm' hft traders are real -- or mythical -- i do not know. but if hft worked the way it is purported to work, they ought to exist.
mircea_popescu: about half the "pro" trading houses do about half of their trading on the basis of poorly understood and badly maintained excel spreadsheets.
mircea_popescu: i am aware this sounds incredible. it's factual.
mircea_popescu: but in truth and behind the scene it's 100% code reuse in the most "found on forum and pasted in" manner.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:47 asciilifeform: if your operation seriously relies on the db, it implements custom db, from scratch, like the hft trading folks do.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641453 << the hft trading folk are about as dumb as the "serious www publishing folk". the "implement from scratch" thing is a fiction, there to justify insane and unjustifiable expense. exaclty how and exactly why any third hand "outside consultant" in third world sells random dopes on "whole new cms!!11" for their "project" so it is "for srs professional". ☝︎
mircea_popescu: (ivanhoe. great film. there's trial by combat!)
mircea_popescu: anyone saw liz taylor playing a jew ?
shinohai still wants to see a sword duel, failing that.
mircea_popescu: you're both welcome now shake hands and stop being so pissy all the time. life's too square and my fruit salad too good to waste suchly!
asciilifeform: would be a mighty fine thing, indeed.
mircea_popescu: now guess what the problem is.
mircea_popescu: well, alfie, there could ALSO EXIST SUCH A THING AS A PROGRAMMABLE COMPUTER
asciilifeform: trinque: i entirely agree re above -- there could be such a thing as 'reusable encyclopaedia of data structures'. problem is, it dun exist yet.
mircea_popescu: not the nonsensical "oh, paperclip!" microsoft access / lotus 1-2-3 / novell bs approach
trinque: ^ not coming across is why the thread was ridiculous
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this, i am aware. but i suspect the "concept of db" trinque defends is "here is the set of definitive -- because mature -- things that handle data ; fucking use it".
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 19:16 trinque: whole point having been that there are useful items in there that all got welded together
asciilifeform: which purports to choose a one-size-fits-all set of algos for a given data bag.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641436 << and yet this is exactly how multi-engine airplanes work. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:37 phf: well, right, but you're not going to learn how to db by ~running~ databases. the whole "db" thing is an illusion anyway. rtrees, btrees, indexes, locking mechanisms, mvcc are all concrete algorithms, that you can implement in an adhoc manner for your task at hand and actually see how they work and what they do.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641431 << there are some advantages to having a standard package of these things everyone uses (this is called maturity) and no serious drawback to calling that package "a database". ☝︎
ben_vulpes: i'll take ingenues over ingenieurs any day
mircea_popescu: unlike the french word ingenieur, for instance. which comes from genius, or whatever, ingenuity
asciilifeform: ( on train they were even called, in english-speaking world, engineers!! )
mircea_popescu: actually the english word engineer denotes furnace stoker.
asciilifeform: www engineer << at one point there were furnace stokers, also.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:31 Framedragger: ok this is ridiculous, i'm done
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641422 << take it easy m'lord, jus' needs a little time. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: now you know how "www engineer" became a thing.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:31 asciilifeform: i have actual work to do, and do not have time to babysit the process all day, every day.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:25 asciilifeform: trinque ^ this is both true and imho a serious problem
ben_vulpes: schizophrenic weather gods will continue with the increasingly bipolar weather until the humans die off adequately to restore ecological sanity
mircea_popescu: i was there in winter, so not much call for anything of the sort.
asciilifeform: for the reason described earlier.
asciilifeform: humidifier + ac is disaster though, damp everywhere.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform save on electricity through spraying it in finely i think ? not sure, never took one apart.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what would that do ? if you cool the air, and lower the dew point, not even garden hose will make it hold any more water than remained in it after the cooling
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you could get your ac connected to the water pipe -- like the fridges with built in ice maker.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why the hysteresis?
mircea_popescu: it rained once while i was there. took 5 minutes, most of the water was gone before touching soil.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that'd be egypt for instance.
ben_vulpes: too dry, doesn't have the nasty taste of reality
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i always wished there were such a thing as an ac with a throttle
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes aha. me too.
asciilifeform: i do know that there are places where the air is hot and ~dry~, and ac has no drain pipe -- but never yet been there.
mircea_popescu: btw -- i have no ac here. the girls are naked indoors. it's fabulous.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform once switched planes in panama and ( it had outdoor walk, instead of the customary human pipe ) thought 'just like home'
mircea_popescu: even in buenos aires, of every 10kw the ac ate, 7 to 8 made water.
asciilifeform: it's one of the worst things in dc, it is
mircea_popescu: the humidity is the killer.
mircea_popescu: chick was imported though.
asciilifeform: cr must be near the peak of the equator's stupification field
mircea_popescu: i never saw unmath this bad aside of us college educated girls.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu described argentines as borderline tards but i don't recall hearing a story like this about them...
mircea_popescu: then... she doesn't know how much for the dozen. if they're 400 each then 12 is... 3600...
mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : me goes into shop where girl has bought nice shot glasses to buy shot glasses. "do you have these in a box ?" "yes" "how many in the box ?" "uhh..." nicaraguan chick is very much willing to be picked up but has nfi how many shot glasses in 3x4 case.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:17 trinque: can either bitch like a woman or fix the pain now and also move off later
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641378 << you now have cold sores. can either bitch about it or... wait for them to pass ? ☝︎
asciilifeform did, ftr, end up descending into the darkest depths of his chamber of pain and cracking a b00k, with the aim of determining -- which. this op has not yet returned.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:15 phf: ascii actually can criticize postgresql from the position of understanding. knowing intricacies of psql is not knowledge (rtrees, caching, etc.), it's trivia ("you have to turn lever 3 and depress button Y"). ascii knows what he needs to express, but he can't express it directly, because he's running against architectural constraints of his tool. from that perspective a general "databases are shit" is an entirely valid perspective.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641374 << this is a perfectly reasonable view, and it'd carry were it not be tinged by a history of asciilifeform on occasion producing overgeneral statements not because he ran against design constraints of the space but because he ran against mental constraints of his own. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:07 phf: tmsr work is primarily defined by its voluntary nature, if i had to do things same way i do it at the office i wouldn't bother. ascii doesn't know intricacies of psql from his day job, and i think it's cruel and inhuman to make him study psql ~as part of tmsr work~. it's not the kind of know how you get to learn by sitting down with a cup of tea and a large printout..
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641370 << it all revolves on whether the $item is fundamental or not. if it's fundamental -- not inhuman to make him study, inhuman to allow him to squeak past without studying. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 16:03 phf: trinque is the resident psql guru, he managed to wire his 50 request lisp process to a postgresql database
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641366 << lmao i take it this supply of zingers will last a while. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 15:57 phf: they laughed at me when i said btcbase doesn't use a database, who's laughin now
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641360 << they didn't laugh, they were taken aback at the magic. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: as asciilifeform correctly points out, there's not THAT much of a deal to insert an article once a day / a comment once an hour and otherwise serve reads.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-10 15:53 asciilifeform: nah that'd be trilema
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641354 << this is an iffy discussion. trilema does very little backend but more front end. phuctor the reverse. i think they're very complementary wrt the load type. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: was "gauss copula" for a while famously. was a buncha things, i have notes somewhere.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, math finance goes through one of these every 3-4 years (ie, every time a new crop of collegiate tards ends up dominating the hiring pool)
asciilifeform: actually pertinent to my current kick, even.
asciilifeform: attempts to model brownian motion.
asciilifeform: oh hah it turns out to actually have existed, somewhere
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> was 'ito calculus' authored by same 'genius' as 'igonvalue' ? << I see "ito calculus" as catchall for weaponized labels of Usagidiocy type
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> o brother. you were here for the ito experts huh. << Nah, came for the drinks, stayed for the revolution.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, for all the ulterior leonization, the actual wild west was very much like this : buncha children captive in adult bodies trying to cope.
mircea_popescu: o brother. you were here for the ito experts huh.
BingoBoingo: * shinohai imagines Vitalik reading the logs an thing mircea_popescu meant `Asi` is a new groundbreaking algorithm ..... << Ass Sort Integrals, some very deep "Ito calculus"