152700+ entries in 1.193s
mircea_popescu: because it is game theoretically advantageous to have
a central scheduler.
ascii_field: where there is
a 'tug of war' among top contenders for pulling difficulty up
mircea_popescu: i am maybe not the first but definitely not the last to admit when satoshi did the dumb. nevertheless, here he did no such thing. there is no alternative known to literature, and you can't fault
a man for not coming up with
a novel star.
ascii_field: i agree, this is very much
a 'go, find' rather than 'sure to be found'
ascii_field: not that i seriously disagree with mircea_popescu's intuition, but it is not obviously clear to me that we're speaking of
a perpetuum mobile
mircea_popescu: you're basically proposing we do
a "your rent is
a tenth of your income or more, forever. and you play the lottery daily."
mircea_popescu: the chance to die approaches infinity much before you even get
a third halving
mircea_popescu: this dies, because you will find
a random block which is 00000000000000000000000000000f and game over.
mircea_popescu: there is no way to distinguish between
a block mined at difficulty x that came out with 9 leading zeroes and
a block mined at difficulty 1 that came out randomly with that many zeroes.
mircea_popescu: didja miss the line where i said you can't have
a statistical sample of one ?
mircea_popescu: anyway. the problem of time (as you rightly observe) is
a larger problem than anything bitcoin solves
ascii_field: so now we're asking for
a non-retarded complete reimplementation of ntp.
mircea_popescu: ok, how about this alternative : put
a special time server on the pogo itself, have the pogo sync its time from the list of approved upstream sources.
ascii_field: and i still think that dependence on political time is
a serious flaw in bitcoin proper
ascii_field: that this was
a constraint, i warned from day 1
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: may as well ship
a pc then!
ascii_field: (anything requiring the pogo keeper to have hands and brain is not
a solution)
ascii_field: no one else has proposed anything like
a third
mircea_popescu: so yes, the rifle regiment wouldn't survive cavalry charge from the side. alrighty then, put them on
a hillltop.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field anyway, mind that pogos are not intended to be THE ONLY solution to relaying. they are just supposed to be
a type of solution.
ascii_field: unless the crowd is in
a gasenwagen and behaves like
a solid
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the speed of the sound of the drum is negligible in comparison to the speed at which push wave propagates through
a crowd
mircea_popescu: ie, exactly like drummers (if you think about it, drummers are EXACTLY each guy pushing the other, sound has
a speed, and it pushes ears)
mircea_popescu: it is
a form of dead reckoning, yes. so bad in principle.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 15:02:31; asciilifeform: i will leave this with one more analogy: why did marching armies use drummers, instead of having each man push the next fellow, like in
a crowded train ?
mircea_popescu: natural drift is
a problem, yes, but you reset on each block.
mircea_popescu: in
a year he has to replace
a million btc worth of blocks.
mircea_popescu: yes. the only way this attack would work is with
a major chain replacement investment.
ascii_field: in order for it to be rejected. the chain on disk will have to be no more than
a day behind
mircea_popescu: because when hitler block shows up, the disk has
a block it ends with
jurov: because you mined block 5, with
a bad time, someone else mines 6 << and it will get dropped because pogo considers delta from 5 invalid
mircea_popescu: once it accepts
a further block, it resets its clock too.
ascii_field: let's suppose
a powered-up pogo sets clock using first block it sees
mircea_popescu: because you mined block 5, with
a bad time, someone else mines 6 with
a right time, pogo is now on block 6.
mircea_popescu: this is
a horribru example. so, miner has 10% of the hash, 10% of the bnlocks are badly timed. what of it, pogo resets on the remainder.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if we lack
a clock, we are wide open to replay attack
mircea_popescu: again : if you have block x, from
a year ago, when you get block x+1, the styamp on block x+1 will be, 1year ago + 10 minutes
danielpbarron: isn't there supposed to be
a way to send commands to the pogo? otherwise how is it useful to me as
a "full node" if I can't query it for blocks/transactions and relay new ones I have created for it?
mircea_popescu: nevertyheless, that is
a marked improvement over the current situation
ascii_field: howabout at 4am on
a sunday when the mains flickers ?
mircea_popescu: oh, openssl put out
a bug ? best make sure the fucking calculator pulls it in.
ascii_field: everyone who ever made fun of rms deserves to be fed
a litre of 'toe jam' now.
ascii_field: at this point, any unixlike box with
a graphical display may as well be running winblowz
trinque: I've half considered trying to stop using the web so much, aside from maybe syncing certain sites to
a local box.
ascii_field: trinque: and guess what, rebuilding all the deps of that thing would take
a month+ on my box
trinque: should be good for
a while though
trinque: there are
a few other unspent outputs
trinque: jurov: enough of
a balance?
trinque: yeah it's
a directed graph; however, clang also barfed lots of unnamed nodes
ascii_field: trinque: the 'dot' file, does it contain something like
a logical flow graph ?
trinque: I'm not even going to share the result; just take
a pen and go nuts on
a piece of paper and you'll have it
trinque: asciilifeform: I got clang to fart out
a graphviz dot file; so far, every tool that can eat the thing results in
a horrid ball of yarn
pete_dushenski: "The real problem:
a simplistic, unworkable, and ultimately stifling conception of social justice" << sounds about right.
decimation: and the 'attack surface' consists of
a few packets asking for the time
thestringpuller: jurov: if i had
a pogo i would connect it to the neighbors unsecured wifi XD
jurov: heh. if you had
a pogo, you'd just yank it from power