113300+ entries in 2.787s
San1ty_: I just said AM didn'
t seem to be trading much anymore
mircea_popescu: it seems the latest article (ie euloria update) didn'
t make it into the daily backups.
pankkake: got the BFL mail too, but I don'
t remember ever giving it to them
ThickAsThieves: "The counter argument is that the Monarch is still in development and won'
t start shipping until December. The 65nm products shipping now have a good ROI as of this writing. Market conditions are changing of course, but an increasing BTC price extends the life of all mining hardware. There is great value in taking delivery of your 65nm now."
Neil: I haven'
t even seen any effort at writing such a standard
jurov: maybe devs think so, but that doesn'
t make it true
jurov: pankkake: if you need network of interoperating impelmentations, you can'
t just left it on code
pankkake: which isn'
t that wrong. some standards are defined by one piece of source code too
mircea_popescu: suppose people want refunds enough for a batch and a half. what then ? they refund one bach onl;y, as the 2nd isn'
t whole.
mircea_popescu: fractal nope. the idea is that if the wording is too vague people don'
t bet.
ozbot: Justice Dept. won'
t challenge state marijuana laws
ThickAsThieves: "THE CHLORINE WON'
T KILL THEM, THE BLEACH WON'
T KILL THEM."
toffoo: put all-time and log scale on that chart and this year's growth doesn'
t look all that extraordinary
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn'
t a valid number.
mircea_popescu: Anduck more likely to be a yes than if they don'
t get delivered.
mircea_popescu: "why do ocean liners work like ocean liners, rather than like salvage boats ? wouldn'
t it be better if they were salvage boats themselves, rather than dump salvage boats on the ocean when needed ?"
fractal: why do corporations spend like that? wouldn'
t it be better if they became their own competition, instead of spending more to acquire competition when it pops up?
ThickAsThieves: <fractal> they wouldn'
t attack it, they'll mine and make profit <<<< this is bitcoin working as intended
jurov: sha256 is power dense, it just isn'
t possible to throw 4x more transistors into the same space
ThickAsThieves: <fractal> they wouldn'
t attack it, they'll mine and make profit <<<< you realize this dismantles your points right?
pankkake: process size isn'
t everything anyway
fractal: they wouldn'
t attack it, they'll mine and make profit
fractal: can'
t belive what sort of shitstorm i caused ;)
fractal: jborkl: they wouldn'
t destroy the network,
fractal: no, they won'
t spend anything -- its not like they're going to pay themselves for the chip mask
ThickAsThieves: fractial, why isn'
t someone 51%ing the chain right now?
mircea_popescu: you CAN'
T fab your own hdd+ ram+etc for a "normal computer"
fractal: mircea_popescu: if you follow the inevitable logic -- the entity with access to the smallest manufacturing process will control a PoW such as SHA256. There is 1 entity who always has the smallest fab process -- Intel.. they can do 14nm and put the rest out of business. They won'
t until the US Government asks them to, or until mining is worth $5B / year or so to make it worth it
mircea_popescu: fractal you do realise the devs don'
t get a vote, either, do you ?
fractal: gmaxwell said that a tough PoW algo that used all aspects of a general-purpose computer could still probably be sped up by up around 20% on custom hardware --- but that isn'
t much of a margin to make it worth it until the market cap and mining reward are very high
fractal: Am I the only person who thinks that the network will be stronger if the PoW was changed to a algo that couldn'
t be performed in custom hardware? (i..e gpu's only)
fractal: ThickAsThieves: no idea why tech billionaires haven'
t bought up 100K+ BTC
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves because while it could end up realising that power, odds are it won'
t. judging by the average iq and ability of people involved...
mircea_popescu: which there isn'
t, and so bitcoin is soon enough on this score.
ThickAsThieves: re labcoiners hating mp "I agree 100%. Right after his little post I thought "wow, didn'
t he show this same distaste towards asicminer at one point?" This was the biggest signal for me, and I bought up a shitload.. "
mircea_popescu: the thing is i know what doesn'
t work, i don'
t need to experiment to discover what's wrong with boiler rooms, wash trading, pump and dumps or all the rest of the "internet investment" stuff.
mircea_popescu: i hadn'
t realised how fucking integral to btc ecosystem trilema is. i'll have to get redundancy for that too now ?!
fractal: nice... you must have done well... they need a few more whales to play to get the profit up to 1% tho... can'
t belive 1 guy took them for 4000BTC
mircea_popescu: i wonder why people don'
t just say "dude, i'm a big labcoin fan, because x y z"
mircea_popescu: just saying that the definitions of words aren'
t at all that pinned down as we like to think them
mircea_popescu: but you can'
t really run the laptop w/o power except for two hours
fractal: mircea_popescu: but your first laptop+brick as a UNIT wasn'
t at specs
fractal: mircea_popescu: So, 1 UNIT would be what was required to operate the original laptop at advertised specs.... if the company sent you a 2nd laptop to make up for the fact that your first laptop wasn'
t good enough -- you received 2 UNITS
fractal: mircea_popescu: depends what your definition of unit is, i suppose.... i think most people would say its one unit.... but if there were 2 laptops, because the first laptop wasn'
t fast enough, it would be 2 units
Anduck: fractal: the unit is hashing at 400 ghash. the unit has more h-boards that was told at the site (when they ordered) but that doesn'
t change the performance of the ordered unit
fractal: Anduck: and that unit is hashing at 380Gh... if they send some more hardware, it doesn'
t change the fact that the 400Gh unit is only 380Gh.
fractal: and the unit didn'
t meet performance , so they had to send more
Bunnyh: fractal: i don'
t really have a good opinion on how to decide, if they did deliver 400GH for everyone who ordered 400GH, and the total hardware doesn'
t consume more power than advertised (but would consist of more than 1 master board with 16 hashing boards)
fractal: Bunnyh: if the 400Gh doesn'
t actaully hit 400Gh, would you say that the unit did not meet performance ? (Then , if the company was nice and sent a refund, or more hardware, would it change the fact that the 400Gh unit didn'
t hit performance hashrate" ?
Anduck: jurov: the "will ship their 25ghash and 400gash units in time".. if there wasn'
t any 400 ghash units ordered in the first orders... but it's been proven that it can be built (why wouldn'
t it be possible? just attach the cards) and it will meet the spec
Anduck: but if there wasn'
t any 400gh units ordered in the first ordered units
mircea_popescu: fractal he has no involvement in the decision of it tho, so why shouildn'
t he argue it ?
jurov: Anduck, you really meant different conditions for shipping and delivery? i don'
t believe that
Bunnyh: i see 3 requirements: a) they must ship both kinds of devices (25G and 400G) before 1st. b) both kinds of devices must meet power/speed requirements. c) 5 deliveries confirmed (this req. doesn'
t specify which kind of devices)
mircea_popescu: they know wtf is going on, don'
t include 400gh if they have no orders to ship for 400gh etc
Anduck: which in my eyes doesn'
t really need both of the mining units shipped
fractal: there needs to be at least 1 400Gh UNIT hashing as advertised -- and if they miss performance, sending more UNITS doesn'
t count
Anduck: but doesn'
t specify which kind of units, 25 or 400 ghash
mircea_popescu: this is an important point to remember : you NEVER bet on a bet such that you can'
t neutralize it later should you need to.
Anduck: mircea_popescu: true. but we don'
t know was the first orders (that were shipped this week) including a 400gh miner. but it's proven that it does work if one actually bought one
fractal: jurov: it's not just 400Gh being shipped --- its 400Gh in a single unit as advertised -- if they ship more hardware to make it up for it -- its because performance wasn'
t met
Anduck: jurov: yeah there isn'
t any delivered yet
fractal: jurov: it can'
t be regarless of h-boards because thats not what was advertised on a performance basis -- "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips"
Anduck: thats hardware promise - that wasn'
t met. but it wasn'
t about hardware
fractal: you can'
t just say 'Oh, that langugage is not what I meant!!'
fractal: No, you weren'
t -- not according to the bet langugage -- which is what matters
fractal: jurov: thats just good customer support -- but doesn'
t make the fact that the 400Gh miner isn'
t 400Gh any different --- and thats what the bet language is about
Anduck: doesn'
t matter how many m-boards or h-boards are needed for the performance of the mining unit
fractal: jurov: there needs to be a 400Gh UNIT -- which doesn'
t exist
jborkl: but I don'
t get a vote
fractal: jurov: they're compensating. and thats great... But the bet doesn'
t say that
fractal: Anduck: The best doesn'
t say 'If the 400Gh miner only mines at 380Gh' they can ship more hardware and its a yes
Anduck: fractal: that was the advertised hardware... the bet wasn'
t about advertised hardware. it was about advertised performance. 400gh for 400 watts. people ordered a kit which produces that and they get what they ordered
jurov: i think if they don'
t ship more boards as a kit to fullfill the 400gh, then it's clearly false
Anduck: fractal: they didn'
t meet the advertised hardware amount. but they meet the advertised performance by far!!
Anduck: the bet wasn'
t about the amount of hardware delivered... it was about the kits/units and thheir performance
fractal: Anduck: That's not what the language in the bet says though.... seriously... I'm sorry you weren'
t more specific
jurov: but they aren'
t 400gh yet
fractal: I went to bitfurystrikesback.com and looked at what was advertised -- I thought, no way they'll get 400Gh on that M-board with 16 cards -- they might hit power -- but I don'
t think they'll get 400Gh out of that --- I put my money where my mouth is, and I was right--
Anduck: jurov: people ordered 25gh unit (was meant to be 1 h-board + 1 m-board) but they were delivered 1 m-board and 2 h-boards instead.. for the same price. that was because the performance of the single h-board didn'
t meet the 25ghash -> they had to add another 25gh board in the kit)
Anduck: fractal: i don'
t see why.. the performance is met and it can be proven from the hashrate@power usage of the smaller hashrate miners
Anduck: mircea_popescu: it doesn'
t really matter since the customers get what they were promised. and in the future they might be able to turn their miners for even powerful miners with software update
fractal: Anduck: they can'
t fit 20h-boards on a 400gh unit..... a 400gh unit can fix 16h-cards maximum.... hence UNIT
fractal: Anduck: thats why they're shipping additional hardware. Why would they send more hardware then promised if performance is met? They woudln'
t.
Anduck: fractal: wasn'
t about advertised hardware... it was about the performance
fractal: Anduck: for the bet to be yes, "1 Master board 16 hashing boards with 16 Bitfury 55nm ASIC chips for total of 256 chips" has to exist -- and it doesn'
t Anduck: well mircea_popescu.. wasn'
t that kinda clear? if there's no cap of s.dice at mpex, it's same as zero cap