asciilifeform: davout: it applied to nonfinal txen strictly.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has it.

asciilifeform: we had this thread.

asciilifeform: absolutely.

asciilifeform: yes.

asciilifeform: they can say 'fuckyou' tonight, if they like.

asciilifeform: the locktime thing is simply a hint that says 'usg-compliant miners, PLEEEZ dun mine this until block X'

asciilifeform: (probably even less, i have not crunched exact number.)

asciilifeform: anybody with a few mil. usd to burn could rent the hash tonight to thermonuke it.

asciilifeform: davout: understand, it is 'enforced' by miner cartel ONLY

asciilifeform: and even if it weren't, it does the exact OPPOSITE of what i asked for.

asciilifeform: davout: locktime is promisetronic!

asciilifeform: presumably the 'withholding algo' discussed earlier.

asciilifeform: how ? i do not know.

asciilifeform: so presumably was mined 'in advance'.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: of course not. it gets disgorged.

asciilifeform: *in block

asciilifeform: theoretically a 'will go in node xxxxxxx --- yyyyyyy inclusive or NEVER' field in tx, would have been sane. but it is too late, this is not in bitcoin. ☟︎

asciilifeform: i, for one, would love to discover how.

asciilifeform: miners.

asciilifeform: davout: atm we are at the medieval tech level where we have -- afaik -- nfi how to live without lice, fleas.

asciilifeform: i do not know why this is done, nor have any plausible hypothesis. vermin do what vermin do.

asciilifeform: *on them

asciilifeform: and ~immediately~ fire the malleated one

asciilifeform: davout: they'll pick up high-S tx also, and sit on then RIGHT UNTIL you broadcast a doublespend with correct chirality

asciilifeform: by what, then

asciilifeform: phf: i thought your logtron was fed by a standard db..?

asciilifeform: somehow, this profits somebody, somewhere, or is perhaps a side-effect of some other idiocy.

asciilifeform: why -- to this day i do not know.

asciilifeform: davout: for whatever reason, there exist miners who SIT on a tx, right until the very millisecond that they see a 'doublespend' OF it, and then IMMEDIATELY mine the ~first~ one.

asciilifeform: lel

asciilifeform: davout: ahahaha recall the bbet shitstorm ?

asciilifeform: let'em live in the wild, with the wolves, with prb segshitness etc.

asciilifeform: because they are a malignancy.

asciilifeform: and those -- must be exterminated.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1594027 << this is only half of the headache. the behaviour of heathen nodes, who think that they already have 'your' tx, and the new one is 'doublespend', is the other half. ☝︎

asciilifeform: davout: why 'shouldn't have confirmed' in this case ?

asciilifeform: and in the block case -- yes, mechanically rejectable.

asciilifeform: not in mempool soup.

asciilifeform: a doublespend is, in sane planet, STRICTLY attempt to spend coin that was already spent IN A BLOCK

asciilifeform: and Must Die

asciilifeform: davout: the entire attempt to mechanically distinguish 'double' from normal spends is an evil prbism

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, thread was originally about 'sane wallet mechanism'

asciilifeform: it lets you have airgapped nodes.

asciilifeform: this is actually one of the reasons i insisted on eatblock and dumpblock

asciilifeform: even if not as catastrophic as privkey leak

asciilifeform: davout: which pubkeys you watch is also something enemy has 0 business knowing

asciilifeform: and that's supposing you are meticulous about using 'diode' etc.

asciilifeform: davout: if your node is raped, anything that is fed into it is also visible to enemy, and you have 0 privacy of anything but (possibly) privkeys

asciilifeform: just walk the new blocks. as is done now.

asciilifeform: there is 0 reason why any extra processing ought to be needed for this.

asciilifeform: index'em however you like, if new blocks aren't inspected for pertinent-to-me tx, the thing's a turd

asciilifeform: and in any sane future trb.

asciilifeform: even in the oldest trb.

asciilifeform: why? if you have the privkey, every incoming valid block is inspected for tx pertaining to $addr

asciilifeform: i dun think 'listunspent' is escapable, no.

asciilifeform: what distinguishes surgeon from butcher.

asciilifeform: this is what distinguishes us from the beasts of the fields, folx.

asciilifeform: unless there is a clear and fully-capable replacement.

asciilifeform: removal of old grandfather's pistol -- no.

asciilifeform: raw tx hopper -- also yes

asciilifeform: option -- yes.

asciilifeform: davout: no, because i'm not about to calculate ecdsa by hand with pencil on grid paper.

asciilifeform: there has to be a basic mechanism where the thing can be used, in anger, 2009-style, sans perl/python/etc.

asciilifeform: my contention is that a trb with entirely removed unspent-selector is not usable-naked.

asciilifeform: in favour of something yet to be written.

asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand, you suggested removing functionality that ~was~ there in 2009

asciilifeform: davout: how ?

asciilifeform: before. several times.

asciilifeform: we had this 'lose the wallet!' thread.

asciilifeform: not a ~reference~ !

asciilifeform: if trb is not usable NAKED, it ain't trb !

asciilifeform: so, now what, the thing drags perl along with it into eternity? python ?

asciilifeform: and error in ~fired~ tx is intolerable.

asciilifeform: if i have to do that.

asciilifeform: there ~will~ be error.

asciilifeform: but there is no reason i ought to have to enter 8 decimal points BY FUCKING HAND 10,001 times to make a tx.

asciilifeform: davout: by all means it oughta have manual knobs.

asciilifeform: but the probability of 'txtron suggests 'send all money to karpeles' or 'send a million btc as fee' ought to be 0.

asciilifeform: the current behaviour is nuts.

asciilifeform: mod6: 'create a tx' is np-complete (knapsack problem) so you can potentially end up with strange solutions. user MUST approve before firing.

asciilifeform: mod6: what means, in this case, 'create' ?

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as i understand, davout was asking for sane-wallet, rather than merely raw-tx-hopper

asciilifeform: mod6: error can be tolerated in ~autopilot that user can disable at all times~, i.e. it ~recommends~ a tx, user can review before firing

asciilifeform: instead of the 'accounts' and 'wallets' idiocy

asciilifeform: as in, y'know, the thing that wallet ~ought to have done from day 1~

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this won't , as i understand, help him, he wants to ~craft~ tx, not merely broadcast-raw

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593869 << pretty neat, ty jurov . ☝︎

asciilifeform: ah

asciilifeform: wassat

asciilifeform: waiwat

asciilifeform: davout: why do you have a prb node, out of curiosity?

asciilifeform: but i saw no reason not to give it a red flip cover.

asciilifeform: and yes, it is only accessible via rpc anyway

asciilifeform: eatblock is a specialist tool

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593841 << it's part of the not-being-prb business, not to foist changes that have ~any~ potential sharp edges on operator ☝︎

asciilifeform brb

asciilifeform: well yes, you get cut open by the butcher you have, not the surgeon you wish you had

asciilifeform: and sometimes, cheap shaman is a disaster, and you want an actual surgeon.

asciilifeform: sql is exactly the infamous vice-grip: 'the wrong tool for every job'