1001100+ entries in 0.729s
mircea_popescu: well
that's an incorrect representation. obviously it may be convenient, but it's not
the case.
BTC-Mining: I don't see how GLBSE is
the ship.
The ship is Gigavps's mining operation.
BTC-Mining: Probably because
they consist on
thousands upon
thousands of
tickets looking like: "I haven't received my balance yet. Why?"
mircea_popescu: glbse.com is no longer responding,
the website itself.
BTC-Mining: Nefario still
talked
to a few people recently. But doesn't answer publicly or
to support requests.
BTC-Mining: The ship's location is known. Who
the cargo is
to be delivered
to is not known.
mircea_popescu: sure,
the concept of spices, or
the concept of cargo, or
the ship's destination still exists.
BTC-Mining: Gigavps keeps
track of all payments due and if information is released, will pay all what is due.
mircea_popescu: if it's not heard from in X
time,
the company is dissolved as worthless.
mircea_popescu: basically,
the reasoning is
this :
there was a company organised
to finance a ship sent
to wherever.
BTC-Mining: That's
the
thing,
they would be direct shares with Gigamining should
the information be released.
mircea_popescu: nah, if it doesn't come
to its senses by dec 1st it's not getting reinstated.
BTC-Mining: Hmm, but
the data does exist. Wouldn't a simple backup of
the
tables containing
the data for
the ETF be enough?
BTC-Mining: Keeping
the data aside doesn't cost much logistically.
BTC-Mining: I would expect
the obligation
to be honored, wether
the assets resurface in 1 day or 2 years.
BTC-Mining: But really, what bothers me is not
the delisting (and
trading stopping, which would be appropriate), but
the complete deletion of data.
The ETF has no
terms reserving yourself
the right
to arbitrarily void
the obligation.
mircea_popescu: Barack Obama will be re-elected as
the president of USA
BTC-Mining: I'm sure
the outcome will be very clear.
BTC-Mining: Plus some people would certainly
they got shares of X instead of Y.
BTC-Mining: The
total amount of shares vary a lot.
BTC-Mining: Since AML was not required and
the majority probably claimed...
BTC-Mining: That he knows matter not. Just
that each issuer receives all
the information Nefario was aware of, and
that
they have
the correct information.
mircea_popescu: and seeing how
there's maybe a coupla dozen actual people with actual investments
BTC-Mining: As
the correct issuer would not have
the correct information.
BTC-Mining: eh, I'd consider
that as information not released.
BTC-Mining: It's
the most blown out of proportion screw up someone could do.
BTC-Mining: He'll accidentally provoke a vacuum metastability event, resulting in a stabler state propagating
throughout
the Universe at
the speed of light, defining new constants for
the laws of physics, rendering all Earth and its matter... different.
mircea_popescu: im mostly curious
to find what exact way does nefario find
to both fuck up in some entirely unexpected novel way and also render
this bet moot in one fell swoop
BTC-Mining: No, because he received
the contact information from an unkown amount of persons but no issuers were forwarded
that info. So even
theorically, he has not released
the data.
BTC-Mining: Let's say, if any of gigamining, asicminer or bitbond have
together a
total of at least 2 or more complaints from members with 50+ posts
that
they submitted
their info but are not included in
the released list, or
the information for any of
those 3 asset is not released at all by February 1st, it shall be deamed
the information was not released.
BTC-Mining: Yes, but if
the contact information was not given, it's impossible
to release
that info
to issuers anyway. But
technically,
that means Nefario would have released
the full list if he could have done so, so
theorically, it would be done.
mircea_popescu: but i mean... if not even half
the shareholders are reinstated
the
thing is moot anyway
BTC-Mining: I have no idea what proportion of holders gave
their info
to be sent
to issuer. I would go more by
the lack of complaints
that some submitted
their info and weren't included in
the list sent
to issuer.
mircea_popescu: mkay. so " by feb 1st more
than half
the shareholders are reinstated in at least
two of gigamining, asicminer, bitbond as a result of nefario releasing
the lists
to
the respective asset owners"
BTC-Mining: Unless mircea wants an escrow for
this one.
mircea_popescu: what were decent-ish assets
there ? giga, asicminer and what'd be a
third ?
BTC-Mining: feb 1st? I'd bet you 5 BTC it is released by
then. (For
those who submitted
their information, not in full.)
mircea_popescu: mk, so wanna bet
the shareholder lists aren't released by feb 1st ?
BTC-Mining: After
that I'd probably start
to assume he managed
to lose
the database after closing GLBSE
BTC-Mining: Somewhere in
the next weeks
to 3 months
mircea_popescu: so when exactly do you expect
the shareholder lists
to be released ?
BTC-Mining: and he seems
to want
to send all balances out before
then giving
the addresses
to issuers.
BTC-Mining: He also managed
to screw up payments on
the 16th
BTC-Mining: Because since Nefario did not disappear with
the funds, I still believe it is in
the "realm of probable"
that he'll release
the information, and not in
the "realm of possible"
BTC-Mining: At least for mine. I was one of
the first paid out I
think.
mircea_popescu: so what makes you
think
that
the lists will be released, but after december ?
mircea_popescu: much more importantly
tho, were all
the payments sorta early oct ?
BTC-Mining: Should be like
that, considering
that's how bitcoin
transactions work...
mircea_popescu: if i pay you 100 btc, is it right
that my program
takes 100 btc
to your address and 900 btc
to another address of mine ?
BTC-Mining: But claims are included in payment chains for much larger amounts. It is yet
to see if users received all of
those without more claims.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a key consideration is
that
those shareholder lists are only useful early on.
they decay so
to speak
BTC-Mining: From only declared claims which are a lot fewer
than
the payment chains seen
those claims are included in.
mircea_popescu: (in fact, it may well be argued nefario stole
the few k btc he had of glbse money,
then insisted
theymos return
the few hundred he held,
then used
that
to pay SOME people and end of story
there)
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining paid some people originally.
that was weeks ago.
then he stopped payng, and now his site is gone.
mircea_popescu: bitcoinica's still not paid. people still entertain
the notion
they will get something back, obviously, but it's been what, half a year.
mircea_popescu: well...
the way
these
things work is
that
there's some communication originally... but nothing comes of it.
BTC-Mining: If one day,
the website had suddenly disappeared along with Nefario,
that would be acceptable.
mircea_popescu: i
think it's much like missing persons.
those not found in
twoo weeks are never found.
mircea_popescu: yet when it comes
to booking losses... nobody
thinks o look, five weeks
that's five irl years
BTC-Mining: But seeing as he sent payments (the good amounts)
to many and it's not completed after one month, it doesn't look like he lost
the database. But he's been incredibly slow.
mircea_popescu: it's been a month already. november is another month. how much later
than
that ? 2014 ?
BTC-Mining: What if
the information is released at a later date?
gribble: BTCUSD
ticker | Best bid: 10.80101, Best ask: 10.88754, Bid-ask spread: 0.08653, Last
trade: 10.80100, 24 hour volume: 25732.98766624, 24 hour low: 10.58000, 24 hour high: 10.89000, 24 hour vwap: 10.75200
mircea_popescu: "I
thought genjix had
to eat catfood + bits of newspaper cause he was so poor ?" 0.0
smickles: wow, i'ven't
the mind
to understand
that
mircea_popescu: "he also lied about having an OTC rating at
the
time if
the
transaction
to get me
to send first. I was knew and didn't know what OCT was
then and was desperate for money so I foolishly agreed."
smickles: your sec sigline seems
to be getting good exposure (for
the forum)
smickles: or did he get
taken out in some way?