trinque: I mean this assumes whatever sub-groups within the thing haven't been mining on their botnets for years
trinque: there are guys inside the beast not nearly as foolish as that Force guy
trinque: that's it; the price of eggs and poultry is going to do the USA in for good
jurov: they will import (unwashed! what horror) eggs from elsewhere
jurov: and find it surpprising for qntra, too
BingoBoingo: Things that adversely impact the utility of the USD is totally qntra
jurov: so... bitcoin price per egg is expected to stay constant?
jurov: oh i get it, it's litecoin
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform aws can definitely not be part of our canonical stuff huh. << agreed. i'll continue to get my sea-legs with what I've got so far, but what we end up supporting in the end will be a gentoo on a bare-rails environment. unless any objections?
danielpbarron: maxwell, didn't you register a key under the nickname mxtm?
seraminta: i was told by my friend dan to come here
seraminta: someone please teach me about this i am ready
danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.mxtm.1:56b85c7ae290407ae089b8d262533fa748f89fd5322d85884cecb4882e22d744
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mxtm with note: a kid who lives in Boston and likes languages
mxtm: fuck, this pi case is really tight
BingoBoingo: First step to learn Bitcoin is to put shoe on head, in private, and balance it there for much time. Teaches discipline necessary to Bitcoin.
trinque: BingoBoingo: then you chant "bitcoin is bitcoin" in the mirror each night
BingoBoingo: seraminta: Nah, not shoe on head for camera, shoe on head to teach balance and focus.
BingoBoingo: trinque: yes, while looking at agricultural price trends for the past two decades
trinque: lol, yes he comes to increase your block size
BingoBoingo: seraminta: It is to increase your ability to say no to bad ideas
danielpbarron: there may be miners in here, but it's not limited to that
trinque: that is actually a very apt description of the medicinal effect of #b-a
trinque: seraminta: before trying to acquire bitcoins you will want to educate yourself on both them and the technical considerations around keeping them
trinque: the logs here are indeed the best way to do that
seraminta: can yall just educate me on how to get that money tho....
trinque: as are the various associated blogs
mxtm: well you can trade for it
mxtm: for traditional fiat currencies
mxtm: or you can get paid in it in exchange for services, goods, etc
trinque: seraminta: what interests you in them?
mxtm: i'm more of the trader type
danielpbarron: seraminta, you have been given many suggestions; repeating yourself will not yield a positive outcome
williamdunne: seraminta: How do you earn dollars? Would you like us to specify every position available on the McDonalds' team?
danielpbarron: if you straight up just want some coin, I can sell it to you in person; just hand me cash
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 236.51, Best ask: 236.63, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 236.51, 24 hour volume: 29052.82160197, 24 hour low: 234.22, 24 hour high: 245.0, 24 hour vwap: None
gribble: BTCChina BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 235.468966, Best ask: 235.48187, Bid-ask spread: 0.01290, Last trade: 235.467353, 24 hour volume: 61772.47790000, 24 hour low: 233.4011, 24 hour high: 244.75662, 24 hour vwap: 241.381998979
mxtm: where are you located, seraminta?
copypaste: You'll get a lot of clicks from that from our users most likely.
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima add more etc, but doesn't need to bother you.
mircea_popescu: o also! anyone with a scooped blog can make himself a banner, hit me up with it.
williamdunne: Because different countries have different trading systems..
trinque: from there click links, or ask questions here
mxtm: seraminta: well then ofc you can just do cash in person w/ danielpbarron here
mxtm: cash in mail is also a good option especially for "off the books" type stuff
BingoBoingo: Station wagon full of cash also works for larger purchases
mxtm: and or a large box of cash
mxtm eyes the boxes in the closet he would never be able to fill
trinque: or a box of cash within which there are several boxes of cash
mxtm: i have all of these priority mail boxes and free tape now
BingoBoingo: Nah, station wagons has always been the premier unit of data transfer and what is money, but data on who doesn't suck
mxtm: semen also transfers lots of data quickly
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: In some places delivery services are still the most cost effective way of transporting web data
BingoBoingo: mxtm: Not really. only encoded with 4 letter character set. T, C, A, G
williamdunne: I can remember a while ago a calculation being done that it was cheaper to have a 120gb SSD filled with data shipped to Canada than it was to download onto your existing drive
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you know you gotta let people publish their own pics.
danielpbarron: i took that pic, it is my own. but i'll keep that in mind for future reference
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron and since we're doing future references : you don't want a 20% of empty sky and cut calves.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: the human body has some permissible cuts, and the calves aren't it. if you don't cut the neck, the next is the torso, between lower rib and belly button, and if you don't cut that you don't cut anything.
mircea_popescu: random lulz : in the 70s, romania was doing a very argnetine-like autarky thing. making local whisky, local everything. including local gin, which was made at covasna,
cazalla: doesn't seem anyone wants to bang #3
cazalla: nothing forgiving about 1 out of 5 girls wearing jeans at the beach
cazalla: fwiw, i'd bang all 5 but only admit to 2 or maybe 3 of em
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:32:00; asciilifeform: this fella used to be the 'genuine article'
mircea_popescu: "Be wary of one-time pads and other crypto unicorns" vbwghahgahaha
mircea_popescu: you know, these schmucks have nothing of the quality of schmuckdom in the soviet times.
mircea_popescu: just as many poltrons then, but really, a lot more style.
mircea_popescu: mebbe. tho i dun think so. not that i have any serious basis for it.
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:45:12; asciilifeform: 'By the time its chips were to be embedded into Internet of Things (IoT) devices, 21 projected its cost to produce 1 BTC could be as low as $7.45.' << somebody does not grasp difficulty factor ?
mircea_popescu: it's like you're expecting to find flesh under a stand-up cut-out of angelina jolie.
mircea_popescu: maybe they're doing it in supersecret, but so far, on the balance of intelligence, it's just gift of gab.
mircea_popescu: there's oregon, arizona new mexico, some secret and some offshoire locations
williamdunne: The trilema rotator works on neither of my computers :/
williamdunne: On the other I get a very quick flash of the no image logo, which then disappears
williamdunne: 03:11:47.553 The character encoding of the HTML document was not declared. The document will render with garbled text in some browser configurations if the document contains characters from outside the US-ASCII range. The character encoding of the page must be declared in the document or in the transfer protocol.1 rotator.php
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207363 @ 0.00027095 = 56.185 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: yeah well. it's supposed to go into a diff page, with its own declarations, and it uses no glyphs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you understand the qty of engineering involved.
mircea_popescu: yes, they'll have this in five years. the effort required to do it in a year ? you'd hear.
mircea_popescu: it seems like your browser supplies it somehow ? the source has no class spec.
mircea_popescu awaits the 500 verilog lines gpu and the 2200 lines cpu to be released by intel soon=ish, totally busting the market.
trinque: williamdunne: you using adblock?
mircea_popescu: trinque you figure it actually blocks an image wrapped in an url ? that's almost all of em ?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Rotator and banner are probably both keywords
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform miner without a node ? miner without any security w/e ?
copypaste: mircea_popescu: Do you wanat it put up now?
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:55:40; pete_dushenski: by the time they roll these out and get them into any appreciable number of homes, it'll look like trying to fight the nazis by arming every american with slingshots
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:58:34; jurov: afaik it's so everywhere, nobody does streaming available for own hardware, i have asked
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeh tittydrip works :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 20mn users x 20 watts = doubling the current hash power. /me is unimpressed.
copypaste: trilema.com is using a self-signed cert
copypaste: it won't work correectly because most of our requests are served over HTTPS
copypaste: mircea_popescu: No, but most browsers won't allow HTTP in HTTPS pages.
copypaste: I can keep it at HTTP but "Content Security Policy" in Firefox and Chrome will block it.
copypaste: If it's on an HTTPS page. It'll only work on HTTP pages.
copypaste: I'm not sure I understand your proposal
copypaste: It won't work with the iframe method. I would need the source code of that file and run it on 8chan's server
copypaste: Because the iframe still refers to the plain HTTP trilema.com :(
copypaste: If you have any domain with a valid HTTPS cert you could use that
mircea_popescu: can you give me a ftp user in a subdir on your server and run it from there ?
copypaste: I see, it makes sense. Unfortunately browser vendors have been very difficult about this lately.
copypaste: Sure, that will work. You'll lose out on some stats stuff though that you could get by running it on your server
mircea_popescu: well alternatively you could just import the php from my server into your page
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Pretty clear those are sporting equipment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 269587 @ 0.00027003 = 72.7966 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28613 @ 0.00027215 = 7.787 BTC [+]
cazalla: find out soon, i rang their contact centre and they said they'd email the images
copypaste: I wonder if I could just proxy from your trilema.com PHP script
copypaste: And also send you the real user's IP so you get stats.
copypaste: This has the added benefit of bypassing uBlock.
copypaste: Which is the new vogue of adblocking software. It blocks crcossorigin requests.
copypaste: Yep. Only one with PKI BS will be us, hehe.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: One's clealy a lever action, the other one appears to be a Ruger 10/22 (judging off of the magazing they laid on the OTHER SIDE of the levergun)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you gotta appreciate, the usg is not the only one mining, nor has it been. at this point, the deployment you contemplate might allow it to catch up, but won't do much more than that.
BingoBoingo: Really the sort of thing Australia needs more of considering their rabbit problem
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 22:15:06; trinque: danielpbarron: not if it's all remotely diddlable
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 22:17:26; asciilifeform: possibly even pegged to usd.
mircea_popescu: st thomas comes riding a flaming horse made out of female virgin saint asses
mircea_popescu: shooting psalms out of their assholes at the unbelievers.
trinque: mircea_popescu: what's your read of the exchange between pete and myself; I was hearing circular logic (no offense to pete)
trinque: specifically that 'bitcoin is bitcoin' is a reason in itself
trinque: my response might be "well, why fucking bother with a WoT" for example
mircea_popescu: i think that argument holds water, to a large degree. recall the "bitcoin pervers the nsa" discussion with alf maybe a year ago ?
trinque: that it pulls apart non-aligned organizations?
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 02:55:36; asciilifeform: (and it would have to fall on a different continent entirely)
copypaste: Oh yeah. Please use the b64 version like before
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2014 18:18:59; mircea_popescu: today at nsa headquarters, "sir, i would like to apply for permission to spend 10bn usd dollars in btc equivalent by dumpting our stash"
copypaste: I didn't notice the different URL, sorry ;)
copypaste: OK. I'm going to embed that now. I hope it behaves well under load. Time will tell
copypaste: I stuck it on all the boards. 8chan uses a style of rebuilding where a new post rebuilds a thread on a board
copypaste: I have to force rebuild the boards we agreed to
copypaste: For it to show on all threads and indexes
mircea_popescu: trinque essentially, an application of "bitcoin is bitcoin" is what sunk gavin. they still mostly can't believe it happened, but it did. it will again. in practice, you either implement a broken, pared down version of bitcoin, in which case bitcoin defeats you, or else you implement a correct version, in which case... you've implemented bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: this thing cuts a lot more universally than one'd reasonably expect, and quite scarily in its degree.
mircea_popescu: "you can't halfass bitcoin" is the thing. which property is why i was musing that it's more like a force of nature than anything else.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150450 @ 0.00027215 = 40.945 BTC [+]
trinque: I begin to understand -> mircea_popescu:you'll come out of it thinking what it needs you to.
trinque: the idea that human action inside a monetary system will reflect the incentives/disincentives of that
mircea_popescu: mike wakes up, checks stats, is all o.O gets excited, comes here, says so before reading the log, then we link him to this k ?
mircea_popescu: trinque human freedom is a very limited thing, after all.
trinque: sort of like "will steam engines be used" -> "yes, after all, they exist"
trinque: works out when considering the context the second statement is made within
trinque: so what did I have a problem with...
trinque: it was that there's nothing to act upon within "bitcoin is bitcoin"
trinque: sounded a bit like "after all, we're the Romans"
decimation: my cable modem 'received an update' as soon as I plugged it into the cable network. even though I owned the modem, I had absolutely no say or ability to stop the install
decimation: we did docsis once here before, it's a 'walled garden'
trinque: it's strange and a bit exciting to think that a single human can do something which then becomes almost *environmental* to the others
assbot: Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1e2CTQT )
mircea_popescu: and i'm not entirely sure the meta-universe is open to you at all. there isn't any space for you to "Act upon" in this enlightened, gender savvy, "i am an actor in a movie and i read the script" sense.
mircea_popescu: all you got is what you got. your wot, your job, your wife, your boxen etc.
copypaste: Let me finish rebuilding these boards, it's a pain in the ass to do it manually...
menahem: i don't know whats up - but links to selections aren't working for me. they were at first, but not anymore.
decimation: one thing that occured to me about the 'wot concept' is that one benefits by having your wot intersect your 'enemies' wot
mod6: this is bizzare. i can only get the ssh keys to work /after/ I set a password on the user acount on the instnace (in /etc/shadow). if the user doesn't have a password set, just asks for a pw when connecting. (gentoo uclibc hardened) am i missing something obvious?
trinque: mircea_popescu: selection thing isn't working, last paragraph?
decimation: and that being that 'intersecting person' is probably a valuable position
copypaste: foreach ($config['banned_ad_boards'] as $i => $b) { echo "php rebuild.php --board $b\n"; }
mod6: decimation: hrm. could be i guess. i'll check into that.
mircea_popescu: decimation i would imagine the larger it gets, the more useful it is.
mircea_popescu: Server Load0.03 heh i dun think this will be a problem
decimation: no, but it is not likely that wot structure would be uniform either
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 22:19:52; danielpbarron: i don't have a problem with USG getting 1/3 of all the bitcoin; the can only spend it once
mircea_popescu: how is a derpy usg with delusions of separation and self importance different or better from the numerous groups of derpy miners with similar delusions that came and went over the years ?
decimation: I find it terribly unlikely that any formal usg employee is mining bitcoin
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 22:20:29; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu will probably suggest that cn, ru, etc. will follow suit with -their- tv boxes
mircea_popescu: maybe because bitcoin doesn't run right on windows, who knows.
decimation: it does seem likely that someone in the world has an interest in cuckolding infrastructure
menahem: decimation i was told that canadian gov employees were mining bitcoin. however, when i asked about pools and block rewards, they had no idea what I was talking about. so... it definitely seems highly unlikely.
cazalla: i vaguely recollect someone was using the machines at the ABC (gov owned tv channel) to mine bitcoin back around 2011
decimation: it's possible someone is using infrastructure for a private purpose, but I can't imagine it is officially sanctioned
cazalla: guy didn't get sacked either
decimation: usg's style is to seize someone's bitcoin and put it in their vault
cazalla: decimation, sorta what i was thinking in regards to double spending.. why would they need to do it when they can just pay you and steal it back
cazalla: although i guess just because such scam would work on me is not evidence it'd work on everyone
cazalla: gee that didn't take long for people to accuse copypaste of being mircea_popescu
copypaste: mircea_popescu: you should probably put target="_blank" on the ad <a> tag so it poens in a new tab
menahem: "Into the adblock filter it goes." lol, these people blocking some of the most valuable info they could possibly get. as MP calls it - missed opportunity.
menahem: though I must admit, I did the same thing once.
copypaste: Mixed content means mixed HTTP/HTTPS
copypaste: It's a new thing added by browser vendors
copypaste: They don't allow HTTP content on HTTPS pages anymore.
mircea_popescu: ah mkay. anyway, server load was throughout < .2 so i dun think that'll be a problem.
mircea_popescu: prolly a buncha people send more banners once they wake up/catch up with the log.
decimation: ^the fact that this is even possible demonstrates the laugh-ability of pki
mircea_popescu: "Bitcoin is a jewish conspiracy so these guys are shills, probably working for JIDF."
cazalla: bit obvious that one was mine but would do better in a pol thread
copypaste: you could open a service like a-ads
copypaste: !rate mircea_popescu 2 Graced 8chan with the presence of his ads
copypaste: !v assbot:copypaste.rate.mircea_popescu.2:f09d7cfdf4c180ab010f2c613430f01942fd618289ebc028950b5093135046c2
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for mircea_popescu with note: Graced 8chan with the presence of his ads
copypaste: osteogenesis imperfecta is the medical name
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127250 @ 0.00026684 = 33.9554 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 03:33:20; mircea_popescu: but they're barely a player.
mircea_popescu: this part of the tradecraft is all puffs of smoke alf. exactly the opposite of engineering
copypaste: BingoBoingo: Now two people think I am Mircea.
mircea_popescu: just saying, puffs ofsmoke. they move deterministically, and you know they're there, but WHAT are they ?
mircea_popescu: copypaste people think everyone's me. at some point they thought i was a chick.
mircea_popescu: is neckbeard anything other than libertard for "bad" ?
decimation: mircea_popescu: in this particular case, the guy claims that usg levies so many 'requirements' on its employees that no human could possibly fulfill them
decimation: so everyone lies, pretending to achieve 100% compliance
decimation: some young officers - tought from entry that lying is very bad - find the real working of usg to be shocking
mircea_popescu: Good signature from Fredrick Brennan <admin@8chan.co>. Verify this message yourself << check out this shit, a gpg-ready chan
mircea_popescu: " API for reports for board owners [allows you to have an IRC bot tell you when you have reports"
copypaste: Indeed mircea_popescu. I hacked the codebase considerably
copypaste: Yeah. It was really basic when I started.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in this context, a chan is a type of forum, used most famously by 2/4chan
copypaste: There's a lot if you go back in my commit history, heh...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a lightweight structure, specific cli style commands and a requirement to start threads by embedding a picture. they're purely cosmetic, it's just a sort of forum ubuntu, if you take vbulletin to be windows.
mircea_popescu: they i think all descend from the same thing (aka, futaba) reimplemented x times
mircea_popescu: which is probably the cutting-edgest application php ever knew.
decimation: ^ one wonders why nobody bothered to write something like this in pure c, given the performance demands
mircea_popescu: i doubt there's actually that much of an edge to be had, unless one goes all the way to mold it into nginx
decimation: yeah, good point, would have to re-create the whole stack of shit
decimation: which would be like engineering a sand castle with a toothpick (to paraphrase ascii)
copypaste: you're quite popular mircea_popescu :D
copypaste: Very few ads get threads made about them.
trinque: decimation: friend of mine wrote a 4chan scraper in c here -> waifu.xyz
trinque: see that's why you don't do it in C
copypaste: The tit one is good. I bet you get some clients from 8chan.
decimation: scraper is much easier than writing the server stack. as yarvin put it "An Internet server is, above all, a massive fortified castle in alien zombie territory. The men who man these castles are men indeed, quick in emacs and hairy of neck."
trinque: it's a site that scrapes 4chan for webms and archives them
trinque: guy likes abusing himself with 'write it in c' quests
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 22:27:31; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: within 100 years, we will -all- be as deadly as pirate...
mircea_popescu: lol. no, stalin at right before he was about to get beria
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ALC] 34 @ 0.139 = 4.726 BTC [+]
trinque: "I don't think you can raid b-a anon" << lol!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173309 @ 0.00027257 = 47.2388 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160363 @ 0.00027278 = 43.7438 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142137 @ 0.00027423 = 38.9782 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.00026519 = 10.6606 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42700 @ 0.00027451 = 11.7216 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: "The linux futex_wait call has been broken for about a year (in upstream since 3.14, around Jan 2014), and has just recently been fixed (in upstream 3.18, around October 2014). More importantly this breakage seems to have been back ported into major distros (e.g. into RHEL 6.6 and its cousins, released in October 2014), and the fix for it has only recently been back ported (e.g. RHEL 6.6.z and cousins have the fix)."
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 239432 @ 0.00027461 = 65.7504 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 232509 @ 0.0002752 = 63.9865 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41412 @ 0.00027693 = 11.4682 BTC [+]
cazalla: shame those ones are edits of his originals
mircea_popescu: cazalla you know i vaguely recall this entire butthurt thing @internet trolls
cazalla: yeah i think i mentioned his work with OHPI (online hate prevention institute) like a year back
cazalla: the shit is so pervasive that you can't find his originals half the time lol
mircea_popescu: o copypaste can i also has argentina! seeing how i live there atm.
copypaste: Yes, you can. That board is in Spanish though so you might want to use a different page, or not.
copypaste: I saw your article about McDonalds printing money there, very funny. I'm partial to Colombia as far as Latin American countries go personally though.
copypaste: You could probably run a nice Bitcoin arbitrage out of Argentina if you did it right.
copypaste: They have some crazy currency controls
cazalla: so AFP got back to me.. those pics i shared earlier are legit (yet the newsarticle shows an mp5 lol) and AFP tells me that they never sent the guns despite press release saying they did a controlled delivery and guns were seized
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62129 @ 0.00026023 = 16.1678 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "A students' union officer who is employed to promote diversity at a London university has reportedly asked white people and men not to attend an anti-racism protest meeting.
mircea_popescu: Bahar Mustafa, the welfare and diversity officer at Goldsmiths Students' Union, told students that the union meeting was only open to "BME Women" - females of black and ethnic minorities."
mircea_popescu: honestly i watch the news from anglosphere today like i watched the news from biafra twenty years ago, as a child.
mircea_popescu: a mixture of glee and excitement at the outlandishness of it.
mircea_popescu: (biafra was a part of nigeria during civil war. famine and nutty shit)
cazalla: yeah never heard of jello biafra or anything like that before that.. o.0
cazalla: but yeah, heard of it before and it being short lived
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 185250 @ 0.00026023 = 48.2076 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 01:37:03; mircea_popescu: danielpbarron and since we're doing future references : you don't want a 20% of empty sky and cut calves.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118100 @ 0.00027693 = 32.7054 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 20000 @ 0.000207 = 4.14 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 195672 @ 0.00027694 = 54.1894 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu how about using mikes dynamic banners for that?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 243717 @ 0.00027844 = 67.8606 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86060 @ 0.0002798 = 24.0796 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140332 @ 0.00027823 = 39.0446 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 356866 @ 0.00026736 = 95.4117 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154950 @ 0.00028139 = 43.6014 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 06:15:47; mircea_popescu: davout btw, isn't your paymiumthing an exchange ?
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 05:53:05; punkman: "The linux futex_wait call has been broken for about a year (in upstream since 3.14, around Jan 2014), and has just recently been fixed (in upstream 3.18, around October 2014). More importantly this breakage seems to have been back ported into major distros (e.g. into RHEL 6.6 and its cousins, released in October 2014), and the fix for it has only recently been back ported (e.g. RHEL 6.6.z and cousins
mats: asciilifeform: i was amused
williamdunne: ;;later tell mircea_popescu have you purchased ads on 8chan? I just saw a trilema ad asking to buy photos of my tits
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88152 @ 0.00028258 = 24.91 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: williamdunne: yes he did. and you're human female?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127900 @ 0.00028323 = 36.2251 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: here it says "I'm giving away 0.1BTC to any human female that.."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187817 @ 0.00028441 = 53.417 BTC [+] {2}
davout: williamdunne: re ads see log
danielpbarron: >> about how they've been treated unfairly by the International Corporation of Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) << so not really "the internet" they're losing control over, but the stupid naming system
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00028161 = 9.2227 BTC [-]
jurov: you know anyone who really does not use the stupid naming system?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143550 @ 0.00028656 = 41.1357 BTC [+]
jurov: i don't remember any concrete proposal
jurov: but there will certainly be some stupid naming system over it.
jurov: but if you really want to call me BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7 ...
☟︎ jurov: i hope gossipd spec has a part concerning this. otherwise it will be inevitably bolted on in some ugly haphazard fashion
☟︎ mod6: In this case, wouldn't you just be called "Juraj Variny (jurov) <rini17@gmail.com>"
ben_vulpes: there's also the urbit style naming convention for keys
jurov: but gpg pubkeys are not practical for replacing DNS. what if you want to tranfer the name?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89648 @ 0.0002867 = 25.7021 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: "namshub" et al have no import, are just mnemonic devices for remembering the keyids
jurov: that's neat example for engineers' blind spot for naming
jurov: names have too long history of being bought, sold, stolen or counterfeited to neglect them such
ben_vulpes has a blind spot for derp problems in general
davout: jurov: the naming in gossipd is supposed to be local
jurov: so if, say i start doing coinbr support over gossipd, and i transfer it, have to ask everyone to update their /etc/hosts?
jurov: anything! keys cannot be really transferred
☟︎ jurov: new owner would want completely new keys
mod6: <+jurov> but gpg pubkeys are not practical for replacing DNS. what if you want to tranfer the name? << then there would be a deed detailing the transfer of the name to a new key fingerprint?
jurov: can't we just use namecoin?
jurov: to be sure everyone has the latest deeds
ben_vulpes: global lookup mapping of names to servers is dumbbbb
mats: that price tag though
mod6: <+jurov> can't we just use namecoin? << yeah, I thought maybe this was addressed in the logs before...
jurov: yes, no one takes it seriously
mod6: aight well, have to check later. bbs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62300 @ 0.00028707 = 17.8845 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 16:39:24; jurov: anything! keys cannot be really transferred
jurov: that needs the notion that "all corporations die with their owner" to catch on
davout: jurov: not all corporations have a single owner
davout: also if the transfer procedure is specified in the initial contract that shouldn't be a problem
jurov: how does "initial contract" resolve the problem of transfer without previous owner retaining the key?
☟︎ davout: you can specify the conditions under which you'd transfer the business to another key
jurov: such as? all copies of previous owner's gpg key to be provably destroyed?
kakobrekla: such as failing to sign 'ping' in time?
davout: jurov: well no, owner 1 deedbots "o hey, i'm out, speak to owner 2 starting July 1st 2015, kthxbye"
davout: owner 2 has own key, problem solved
davout: well, i guess you're fuxxored unless there was a sensible plan in place
jurov: kakobrekla: but that's good idea for our keyserver. sign ping every month, otherwise keyserver publishes the key as dead
☟︎☟︎ davout: jurov: what would be the point?
jurov: better than current "expiration date" mechanism
jurov: (which mp effectively obsoleted)
davout: how did he obsolete it? also key expiration and "dead" flag seem functionally quite different
jurov: you usually don't know in advance when a key needs to expire or get invalidated
jurov: and when you try to use this "expiry date" stuff, your mpex account expires,too
jurov: whereby with this "dead" flag you issue non-expiring key and decide what happens and why
davout: you can always extend the expiration date of a key
jurov: mpex does not honor that
davout: mpex either speaks GPG or it doesn't
jurov: i had one time exemption, had to change the key to non-expiring
davout: hmm, if it doesn't update keys you can start with a non expiring one and add the expiration date after opening your acct
ascii_field: something like deedbot for key expirations (and the presently nonexistent but direly necessary expire-for-new-signatures-only) is inevitable
ascii_field: and yes, the only way to solve the expire-for-new-sigs problem is, likely, to require blockchain turd emission for every single sig, for such a key
danielpbarron: warptangent, who are you? (i see you have a key registered but no ratings yet)
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 16:10:00; jurov: but if you really want to call me BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7 ...
ascii_field: key can say what it likes to be called, sure
ascii_field: but no one is to be -identified- for purposes of trust by his claimed name, rather than key
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 16:57:52; jurov: how does "initial contract" resolve the problem of transfer without previous owner retaining the key?
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 17:06:45; jurov: kakobrekla: but that's good idea for our keyserver. sign ping every month, otherwise keyserver publishes the key as dead
jurov: there has to be only one keyserver?
jurov: and this can be in blockchain, too
ascii_field: if there is a 'key is dead' token that one is relying on some third party to keep secret - it can be captured
☟︎ ascii_field: jurov: referring to the 'dead man switch' thread from earlier
jurov: no recent pings seen in blockchain after $configurabletime = key dead
ascii_field: jurov: when it is dead, how do you prevent folks from signing with it 'backwards in time' backdated to before death ?
ascii_field: as i understand, the only way to do this is to require a blockchain 'ping' with -every- signature
jurov: must sign current merkle tree
jurov: stuff that cannot be predicted in advance
ascii_field: jurov: signing today's tree can be done tomorrow, no ?
jurov: only the tree's date is considered for purposes of dead man's switch, what's the problem with it?
ascii_field: jurov: for the purposes of establishing the time of a particular signature
ascii_field: how to prevent folks from backdating signatures to when it was alive
jurov: how would it help them?
ascii_field: the whole point of 'expiring' a key is to prevent its use in the future
trinque: ascii_field something like deedbot for key expirations (and the presently nonexistent but direly necessary expire-for-new-signatures-only) is inevitable << could you use a specific message format with the deedbot- as is?
ascii_field: or rather, communicating authoritatively the statement that 'anyone using this key after this moment is an impostor'
☟︎ trinque: I could also make changes to the thing to accomodate; maybe it rolls over all messages looking for particulars, produces some output every X
jurov: owner signed last merkle hash from a month ago, nothing seen from that key since
jurov: so the consensus is the key is dead
ascii_field: jurov: but what if someone 'unearths' a signature from last year that no one has seen before ?
jurov: "shoulda come sooner"
ascii_field: i'm not expiring my signatures retroactively
ascii_field: but i also want to be able to upgrade keys
jurov: as i wrote, mirce deprecated upgrading keys
ascii_field: this is his greatest error and i'm not afraid to point at it
☟︎ ascii_field: (the other thing is, he didn't forbid upgrading keys - simply happens to charge 30 btc for the service)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 3400 @ 0.00034038 = 1.1573 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: <jurov> mpex does not honor that << davout: i can confirm this
davout: yup, wasn't sure of whether *proxies* updated keys as opposed to the engine, but i guess that yes, it's pretty plainly written
jurov: the engine did not even had time sync till 20 minute drift was discovered
jurov: mircea's ideal is a schrodinger's box apparently
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla they're the wrong size but yeah, that's the correct solution
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell mike_c hey mike! can you make the bitbet banners in 728x90 ?
Adlai: "Furthermore, Bitcoin ISP offers no shares servers"... right, mpex serves shares
mircea_popescu: Adlai hey, wouldja like to advertise your jdif blog on /pol/ ?
Adlai: pf, /pol/ is my jidf blog
mircea_popescu: as time goes by, i get more and more fascinated by the concept of "offended"
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 16:14:04; jurov: i hope gossipd spec has a part concerning this. otherwise it will be inevitably bolted on in some ugly haphazard fashion
mircea_popescu: or in other words, the solution to zooko's triangle is to use the local-global axe on the fucking knot. unique and secure names globally ; memorable locally.
mircea_popescu: (this is exactly how nature does it - as far as it's concerned the namespace is the genotype, as far as you're concerned you just use a nick for the fenotype)
mircea_popescu: spent millenia not even knowing there was a global namespace, perfectly happy.
assbot: GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust: Summary, Stock Quote & Trades for Bitcoin Investment Trust - OTCMarkets.com ... (
http://bit.ly/1EIyQyu )
kakobrekla: check it out, Common Stock - Each GBTC share represents ownership of approximately 0.1 bitcoin
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 16:47:33; mod6: !s namecoin
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla that's how the new garrs and nefarios and gigavps and etc run the same old scam. "it COULD be 11btc each. YOU HAVE NO PROOF IT ISNT"
kakobrekla: > Each BIT share represented ownership of 0.1 bitcoins initially. The trust will not generate any income and regularly sells/distributes bitcoins to pay for its ongoing expenses. Therefore, the amount of bitcoin represented by each share gradually declines over time.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: !rate silbert -1 Arrogantly ignorant twerp, de facto scammer through it.
assbot: silbert is not registered in WoT.
ascii_field realized that one could, in principle, microfabricate logical circuits made of magnetic amplifiers (as seen in well-known 'сетунь' trinary computer)
ascii_field: machine then is made entirely of classically conductive material.
Adlai notes that JP "Morgan" Buntix left out the customer qualification criterion
mircea_popescu: actually - lasered into a chunk of uranium, so that selected atoms turn into gas.
decimation: ascii_field: did you see that ibm has licensed third parties to produce 'power8' servers?
decimation: I think tyan is coming out with a mobo soon
ascii_field: decimation: no, and can't imagine why i'd care
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you have a discrete cristalline lattice of U, selected nodes get energized to the point they split, creating Xe
decimation: supposedly ibm open sourced the full specs
jurov: wat, etching with neutron beam?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: how do you propose to deliver neutrons selectively where you want it to pop ?
ascii_field: U fissions either by itself, or not at all, or when neutronned at
ascii_field: otherwise we're flying airplane powered by my farts. (i can also 'propose what, not how' l0l)
jurov: or build schodinger boxes (with trade engine instead of cat within)
jurov: iirc i have some pending withdrawal out of said box, mircea_popescu
ascii_field: basic idea is a transformer whose output varies, given as a second (or more) circuit gets to saturate (or not) its core.
ascii_field: -not-, pointedly, a relay - there is no mechanical motion or wear
jurov: interesting. but does it work at high freq?
ascii_field: (magnetic amps long pre-date semiconductors. nazis used them in subs, rockets, for instance)
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 19:33:38; kakobrekla: > Each BIT share represented ownership of 0.1 bitcoins initially. The trust will not generate any income and regularly sells/distributes bitcoins to pay for its ongoing expenses. Therefore, the amount of bitcoin represented by each share gradually declines over time.
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 19:23:06; mircea_popescu: davout make a paymium banner then!
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 17:03:34; kakobrekla: and if owner 1 dead?
davout: what if you incorrectly believe in death
mircea_popescu: owner 2 can always repudiate future signatures on the grounds that "it wasn't really me"
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021367 B (Total: 467.26 B). Delta: -0.18 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
Adlai: mircea_popescu: how'd you like to open another PC?
☟︎ Adlai heard there's still coin burning holes in that pocket
Adlai is not talking about fiat trading
Adlai: although there is some common ground between fiat and what i'm talking about, which is: neither of them "exist"
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 17:06:45; jurov: kakobrekla: but that's good idea for our keyserver. sign ping every month, otherwise keyserver publishes the key as dead
mircea_popescu: keys never expire. the meaning you give them may expire, and that's entirely your own personal problem. but otherwise, once found, the integers are there and can be multiplied.
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 17:13:44; davout: how do you know?
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 18:03:07; ascii_field: if there is a 'key is dead' token that one is relying on some third party to keep secret - it can be captured
jurov: so, in 10 years 4096bit keys will stand in danger of cracking, what do you do? force everyone to pay 20-30btc again?
ascii_field: one could picture a few 'cheats.' consider one: key, when promulgated, contains a large but finite set of values Q such that hash(hash(...(P)...) = Q, while P are retained as private. every signature must contain a unique Q from this set. when it is time to retire the key, you spend the remaining 'bullets' all at once.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field makes keys too big, doesn't actually offer anything other than the equivalent "at key promulgation, use it to sing a list of nonces, with understanding that statements w/io the nonce are void", let wot enforce this.
ascii_field: one cannot claim the same degree of 'hardness' for this as for the actual rsa, correct
mircea_popescu: there are some things that don't need fixing. what needs fixing re gpg is to use rsa throughout, rather than the current lulzatron.
ascii_field: but there -must- be a way to proclaim, with all the certainty that can be mustered, the fact that 'i signed with this before but -never intend to again-'
mircea_popescu: intentions need not be nor can they be part of signed matter.
ascii_field: and have this cemented in blockchain, on babylonian stone plinths, wherever
mircea_popescu: people have a way of coming to odds with their intentions
mircea_popescu: without human mediation, this is more of the "smart contracts" coolaid.
ascii_field: we have technology that can, with some certainty, prove that i did something at a certain moment in epoch time, plus or minus ten minutes
ascii_field: this plus rsa is good enough to sig-only-revoke.
mircea_popescu: you have a comment field in the keys as they are now. put in there "This key not valid after block 175552"
ascii_field: merely suggesting a machine-readable standard for this, yes.
ascii_field: without the current idiotic retroactive cancellation of signatures
mircea_popescu: i do not belive machines should have any imperium over valid keys.
ascii_field: not that extant gpg honors expiration dates, to virtually everybody's great annoyance
mircea_popescu: you can't un-discover some integers in a certan mathematical relation.
ascii_field: it is only broken because it mixes abstraction-hardness levels, yes
ascii_field: remember the 'what colour are your bits' article.
ascii_field: they cannot be undiscovered, yes. and don't have a baked-in temporal peg
mircea_popescu: so, the key is there. how do you COLOR it, that's your job.
ascii_field: pegging temporality requires some kind of agreement on mechanism
ascii_field: otherwise you get disputes and wankery where there should be 2+2 certainty.
ascii_field: aha. but whatever approximation is physically possible, with clearly stated limits, ought to be achieved.
ascii_field: just as digital computer, theoretically, does not exist. but the approximation we use is 'almost same'
ascii_field: i'm from the shit that actually works within physical limits dept.
mircea_popescu: ah, but mind that there's no in principle reason a computer might not exist.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 177350 @ 0.00028593 = 50.7097 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 18:10:26; ascii_field: or rather, communicating authoritatively the statement that 'anyone using this key after this moment is an impostor'
trinque: and nobody's stopping anyone from signing some JSON or what have you
mircea_popescu: My new key is X, use of Y key past this point is unsupported. Signed by Y.
mircea_popescu: and it specifically should be 'unsupported'. For all you know a key ends up rediscovered five billion years later.
jurov: yeah, cthulhu appears and says you rediscovered his 5bn old key which he proclaimed expired long ago
trinque: so you could publish some schema for representing this and arbitrarily other such statements into the deedbot
trinque: then make reference to that deed when you use that schema later down the way
trinque: to me these are actually the most interesting use cases of the thing
assbot: Logged on 14-05-2015 18:13:18; ascii_field: this is his greatest error and i'm not afraid to point at it
mircea_popescu: go into the shop get a new one made, what. you want to turn the old one in for a new one ?
jurov: does the bank stops you from accessing your account when you get new suit?
gribble: nubbins was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 30 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 53 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <nubbins> any messages, gribs?
gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 0 days, 6 hours, 11 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <nubbins`> bbl doing things
jurov: we're talking about upgrading gpg keys according to known protocol, not some ski masks
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell nubbins` yo nooblet, make a pink eyes banner ? :D
mircea_popescu: jurov we're talking about this situation where the total number of keys mpex charges for is = to the maximal number of keys ever used. that is not happening.
jurov: no it will inevitably be less
ascii_field: this is... 7th time? we had the 'mpex discourages key upgrade' thread ?
mircea_popescu: if you can upgrade your key for free, you don't have to pay mpex, you can just find someone with a key they don't want to use anymore and they can "upgrade" theirs to yours.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: mpex does not discourage anything. mpex charges, because mpex is a business.
ascii_field: aha, to upgrade key, mircea_popescu has to take a прогресс м-27м to orbit, and unscrew the old one, then retro-thruster and parachute capsule back to b-a
mircea_popescu: keys are identities. identities have to qualify themselves. the qualification happens to be pay 30 btc.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu can charge 3000 btc if he likes, sure
ascii_field: aha too cheap. lusers like asciilifeform can almost afford 30
jurov: mp is the only one to qualify being on mpex, didn't you know?
ascii_field: how many zeros to weld on to the price, his business
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119500 @ 0.00028161 = 33.6524 BTC [-]
jurov: no, go on, annoy him
jurov: if he adds several zeros, perhaps coinbr will see some volume after all
jurov: they'd have to hire knuth himself to squeeze something usable out of that atrocious api
ascii_field: jurov: i thought the gnarly api was part of the 'bozo filter' just as the price was
jurov: yes and building something over it is yet another level
jurov: i suspect boilers will have much better ROI than another honest broker
ascii_field: i'm kinda curious why mircea_popescu considers a new key signed with a previous key to not be a logical continuation of the same identity. (is it because of the impossibility of hard-guaranteed revocation, as discussed in previous thread?)
☟︎ jurov: it's not set into stone, you know
jurov: he's born into wrong time, prolly wants to build a pyramid
☟︎ ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> well, nothing approaching transistor << what sorta frequencies *did* work?
jurov: stone carving just are not upgraded
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i suspect this can be pushed up as the transformer cores are made smaller and coils themselves shorter (less inductive)
ascii_field: in the miniature version i suggested, performance may well edge into overlap with the worst silicon
ascii_field: jurov: magnetic logic as described in the literature mostly 'cheated' by including a diode with each gate
ascii_field: in the hypothetical machine, we cannot have the diode.
ben_vulpes: <jurov> they'd have to hire knuth himself to squeeze something usable out of that atrocious api << ah, it's not that bad, just write a parser for the variety-speaking ad-hoc blublang
jurov: ben_vulpes: if you followed my adventures, i have got parser for $30 from romanian student
ben_vulpes: (for the uninitiated: i'm being very sarcastic)
jurov: it was the rest that took half a year
ben_vulpes: do you do a stat before and after placing every order?
ben_vulpes: i don't feel like loading the MPEx api into my head today.
jurov: ben_vulpes: no, that is not necessary :)
jurov: but you still have the account?
jurov: but beta accounts are still fully functional!
ascii_field: it wasn't an early beta, it was a demo just for me
ascii_field: mircea_popescu even gave me a 1 btc to drive it with
ascii_field: that demo was actually my first contact with mircea_popescu
jurov: you did not keep 0.4 funbux?
jurov: or you traded hanbot out of 0.4 funbux and then gave them to mircea instead?
ascii_field: but answer is no, it wasn't a proper beta account, it was a one-off demo that dissolved in ~month
cazalla: much better than the grainy tumblr shit someone else links :)
☟︎ decimation: re: pay 30 btc to upgrade mpex keys < does this mean that if you can crack an mpex key you get to use it?
☟︎ decimation: so when 4096 bit keys become crackable - unlimited phree accounts?
cazalla: BingoBoingo, not cups but i vaguely remember about 25 years ago that they did a big song and dance about biodegradable plastic bags here down under and how they would be phased in and the old ones phased out, yet to this day they still carry on about plastic bags
cazalla: nice gardening blog btw, ty for link
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Ironically I stumbled into it looking for ways to kill certain unwelcome plants
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152362 @ 0.00028427 = 43.3119 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64938 @ 0.0002838 = 18.4294 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75753 @ 0.00027199 = 20.6041 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76605 @ 0.00026671 = 20.4313 BTC [-]