tmsr - Search: serpent

274 entries in 0.609s

diana_coman: asciilifeform, I can compile it certainly wherever it is; but can I press with V eucrypt with eucrypt/mpi and eucrypt/serpent let's say?

asciilifeform: i dun have any notion that ' mircea_popescu oughta pay for the mpi ' , it was made without any such agreement. ditto the serpent archaeology etc.

mircea_popescu: the deeper problem here is that the evolution of warfare has rendered a symmetric cipher useless. for the launch codes or how you call it we're mostly in consensus to use pure rsa, if memory serves, and for the prattle of eg game server, serpent will do.

a111: Logged on 2017-10-18 15:35 asciilifeform: fwiw there is a quite short ada serpent existing, passes the test set ( and branch-free ).

a111: Logged on 2016-12-28 16:58 asciilifeform since release of FUCKGOATS, spent much time studying 'serpent' block cipher.

mircea_popescu: the situation thereby is that the serpent to be used in eulora ORIGINATES with diana_coman , its reader.

a111: Logged on 2015-01-17 22:38 asciilifeform: or, alternatively, like the choice of 'aes' over the stronger but 'slower' 'serpent' cipher, it was merely orders from lizardhitler.

a111: 65 results for "serpent", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=serpent

mircea_popescu: !#s serpent

asciilifeform: incidentally who nominated serpent originally here ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why not declare the serpent author the winner ?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745676 << if you mean http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/ the point of it was specifically so as to have a tmsr item to put into http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726131 ; as that failed and we decided to go with serpent, the only possible closure to that offer is that the republic failed to deliver. ☝︎☝︎

mircea_popescu: in ~principle~ serpent doesn't expose the key anymore than it exposes the cipher. the claim is that if you know about 2^100 or so plaintext-ciphertext matches you can extract the key.

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, 16 serpent keys means 16 keys of 256 bits each?

mircea_popescu: but if memory serves the "attack" on serpent used 2^100 plaintexts sorta deal

mircea_popescu: so i'm guessing a daily-ish serpent key change per client is not unreasonable.

mircea_popescu: and suddenly the fg entropy debit is relevant : eulora server will be capable to produce iirc no more than 64 serpent keys/second per installed FG.

mircea_popescu: server generates all serpent keys. no stretching .

mircea_popescu: sed 's/aes/serpent/'

mircea_popescu: sorry serpent keys

mircea_popescu: so basically we'll be reusing serpent keys, is the idea ?

mircea_popescu doesn't recall why we picked up airbase 1 serpent in preference of japanese item ?

asciilifeform: so why not also serpent.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the current serpent www is at the very minimum known to be missing items from before

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, let me see if I got this right re "patch": simply apply serpent as it is and then at the next level up glue x keys together and send as "key", glue the corresponding x outputs together and use as "output"; basically lump together 16 serpents

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have this itching half-memory that serpent 256 was actually defined

mircea_popescu: anyway, whatever, diana_coman : the correct implementation approach to patch the 256 bit serpent into 4096 bit rsa is to cut every rsa block into 16 fragments, cipher each independently with diff keys, then paste the 16 keys together make 4096 bit of key.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: serpent isn't defined as a stretchable thing - i.e. it isn't obvious what ought to be changed to produce a larger ( or smaller, for that matter ) block, and still to have it meaningfully similar to original

diana_coman: yes, I had found that one; for some reason I thought you had in mind a different approach for expanding block + key size for serpent itself

diana_coman: asciilifeform, mind expanding a bit on what you had in mind as best way to expand serpent to 512 bits blocks?

diana_coman: well, I was trying to keep my scope there relatively narrowly focused on serpent itself; it's not a very short post as it is anywya

a111: Logged on 2015-01-17 22:38 asciilifeform: or, alternatively, like the choice of 'aes' over the stronger but 'slower' 'serpent' cipher, it was merely orders from lizardhitler.

deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/11/22/taming-of-the-serpent-in-ada/ << Ossasepia - Taming of the Serpent in Ada

asciilifeform: standard compliance (we also had thread) is a massively underappreciated thing. it is why, e.g., diana_coman was able to take the serpent thing and build it, cleanly and without change, 20+yrs after its writing

diana_coman: NOT keccak; serpent

diana_coman: asciilifeform, serpent passed the test vectors!!

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, depending on what we use finally it might be ada-serpent too,unclear

diana_coman: ftr for the serpent ada implementation I wrote the testing part: grabbed published test vectors and wrote a snippet to eat them up, call the serpent, check results, complain if any mismatch

asciilifeform: yeah yeah eventually the serpent will eat the roots of yggdrasil and all will burn in fire of ragnarok sure.

asciilifeform: then definitely existing-serpent-shamirized

asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu , diana_coman , & co want to use 'serpent', i can make a pick-your-own-bitness-via-shamiring twist on above snippet. but prolly not until after i come back from voyage

asciilifeform: it isn't even that asciilifeform is particularly enamoured of 'serpent', but does believe that any cipher that cannot be implemented in the style shown in the paste, is ipso facto braindamaged beyond repair

asciilifeform: fwiw there is a quite short ada serpent existing, passes the test set ( and branch-free ). ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all blockciphers are pseudoscientific. the only differences you can take to the bank, is that camellia was approved by nato bureaucrats, serpent was not; and the fact that serpent runs in constant time ( branch-free ).

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform any proposal on a method to compare camellia and serpent meaningfully ?

a111: 27 results for "serpent", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=serpent

asciilifeform: !#s serpent

asciilifeform: ( lessay you HAD to use a block cipher, and want to combine aes, serpent, and gost, such that to GUARANTEE the best strength of the 3 )

asciilifeform: reaction to 'yggdrasil is rotting, serpent is gnawing, axe-time, sword-time draws near' is not automatically one thing for every reader.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the scheme i described, and using, e.g., serpent, the p of an (x,y) recurring is ~0

asciilifeform: serpent is, i must note, 'best horse in the glue factory.'

mircea_popescu: evidently, there's serpent :)

asciilifeform: now i will remind readers that 'serpent' is not, afaik, on any kind of scientific foundation. it was made using voodoo doll, just like every other block cipher. (what kind of doll, is described in the paper.)

mircea_popescu: there's certainly worse options than serpent.

davout: "Une controverse existe, selon laquelle Serpent n'aurait pas été choisi comme AES, car casser ses clés aurait été beaucoup trop complexe pour les services de renseignement civils et militaires. De plus, même dans une version simplifiée il reste robuste. Par exemple Rijndael est très souvent implémenté dans TLS en version simplifiée sur 14 de ses 16 tours pour des raisons de rapidité, mais aussi d'analyses de données. Alors que Serpent

mircea_popescu: serpent, eh ?

asciilifeform since release of FUCKGOATS, spent much time studying 'serpent' block cipher. ☟︎

asciilifeform: these folk achieve a rare combination of boredom and actively-infuriating 'sanitation is an affront to the great serpent!11' unwashed orcdom.

Framedragger: "Complicating things is the fact that Danica is pregnant. Neither the serpiente nor the avians are crazy about the idea of a mixed-blood child taking the throne. A child of a cobra and another serpent is always a cobra, a child of a hawk and another avian is always a hawk." WELL BUT OBVIOUSLY

asciilifeform: you're all gonna end up with serpent

mircea_popescu: so they're not even at discussing jets and immutability yet. so far we're doing "branding imperatives" and "How to call Serpent function from JAVA SCRIPT (including encoding of function arguments)"

asciilifeform: the use of multiple ciphersystems, presumably (if operator is not entirely retarded) would be something like 'first aes with key k1, then the output with serpent and key k2, then twofish with k3....' etc

ascii_modem: serpent? in crc crypto encyclopaedia, and had citations. but largely, wank on sci.crypt

ascii_modem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-07-2015#1198091 <<< so many lulz! recall 'serpent' and the Official Truth re: its rejection? ☝︎

assbot: counterparty example · ethereum/serpent@f509f4d · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1N7q2Ho )

ben_vulpes: https://github.com/ethereum/serpent/commit/f509f4d#diff-3d8daf295c9ed9c3fd9f9d9113dd24cfR2 << hyuuuu

nubbins`: Serpent, the ideal language for businesses who don't need more than 2,256 of anything

punkman: lol "Python numbers have potentially unlimited size, Serpent numbers wrap around 2256. For example, in Serpent the expression 3^(2^254) suprisingly evaluates to 1"

assbot: counterparty example · ethereum/serpent@f509f4d · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/19fn3iI )

Adlai: no, it's the nail in counterparty's coffin: https://github.com/ethereum/serpent/commit/f509f4d

mircea_popescu: e was traceable clear across the deserts of the Territory by the writhing serpent of dust it lifted up. By these wagons, freights over that hundred and fifty miles were $200 a ton for small lots (same price for all express matter brought by stage), and $100 a ton for full loads. One Virginia firm received one hundred tons of freight a month, and paid $10,000 a month freightage. In the winter the freights were much high

asciilifeform: or, alternatively, like the choice of 'aes' over the stronger but 'slower' 'serpent' cipher, it was merely orders from lizardhitler. ☟︎☟︎

BingoBoingo: This prolly goes back to the Serpent's argument to Eve about the Apple.

mircea_popescu: but anyway : the hissing of the serpent is easily ignored, until the point you cross its boundary.