1958667;1583021522;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-29#1958582 - welcome back to the tropics.
1958668;1583021522;ossabot;Logged on 2020-02-29 18:22:16 mp_en_viaje: aaad hello from lovely costa rica!
1958669;1583021553;dorion;!!v C1607456AD107D45D2E6E854592F46FA8E8D536785627C9B3C716C07B9A50CF0
1958670;1583021553;deedbot;dorion rated jfw 9 << my best good friend and business partner for many years. Writes at fixpoint.welshcomputing.com. Gales Linux, Gales Scheme, Gales Bitcoin Wallet, etc.
1958671;1583021572;dorion;!!v 66445996C6F42FD0A9787DC8C588F528E97B01C7B37B2B41EE6DA29701F2FBFF
1958672;1583021572;deedbot;dorion rated diana_coman 9 << she's helping me kill my stupidity. writes at ossasepia.com , owns younghands.club , S.MG CTO.
1958673;1583021591;dorion;!!v F405D5D8795C0B6B894E7E9AC5A6108441213AC0E08B5A4B647327C2D582754A
1958674;1583021591;deedbot;dorion rated mircea_popescu 9 << the part of you that doesn't like what he says is probably the part holding you back. long history of protecting the intelligent from idiots. MPEx/S.MPOE ; trilema.com ; go, read.
1958675;1583021607;dorion;!!v 7D1625840FAB9AB4BFFAF0C2667D615243A5ECF0D18B2C143E2F55F712F032CD
1958676;1583021608;deedbot;dorion rated hanbot 9 << she delivered numerous righteous smackdowns to idiots as MPOE-PR to help protect Bitcoin during its infancy. writes at thewhet.net
1958677;1583021632;dorion;!!v AE01D0E9CAB6A8ECDE4C00992B124F20D8536BD8DA0DFCE3983A532BC08683BE
1958678;1583021632;deedbot;dorion rated BingoBoingo 7 << not afraid to confront and strengthen his weak arm. writes at bingology.net ; editor of qntra.net ; though Pizarro failed, he handled the liquidation well.
1958679;1583021650;dorion;!!v 08C6C960AD7735F2E7CAC9542F114BF65F4766CDE14F7DF3FC624157CF98C055
1958680;1583021651;deedbot;dorion rated bvt 7 << he's beating the Linux kernel into human use. very knowledgeable and capable across a wide technical spectrum. writes at bvt-trace.net.
1958681;1583021670;dorion;!!v 92C52594CAE9A41890F3B894EBF580464384EEFA600366CDF217A1C04C89DBF9
1958682;1583021671;deedbot;dorion rated spyked 7 << owns feedbot and is mapping TMSR OS hardware. writes at thetarpit.org.
1958683;1583021687;dorion;!!v D133097B68712EDF71A940F7A4CBC3E75326E15025DCEA2EBFD080C6B113BBDF
1958684;1583021687;deedbot;dorion rated trinque 7 << he owns deedbot/deedbot.org and genesis'd irc/logbot and Cuntoo. went by undata in ancient logs. writes at trinque.org
1958685;1583021705;dorion;!!v 791D0ADF71F50B38B2AAA7700C8E09BF47D7E6AF5C475586865B737FB2C6F2A4
1958686;1583021706;deedbot;dorion rated whaack 5 << enjoyed his company when he visited Panama. He managed to survive MIT and extract himself from USia to settle on a CR beach, writes at ztkfg.com.
1958687;1583021724;dorion;!!v 7D021280B0B8EC121FE9DBDA36FACED03C5EF226A6D5E5A43A37854A6FA3707E
1958688;1583021724;deedbot;dorion rated lobbes 5 << he owns auctionbot and isn't afraid to punch above his weight. writes at krankendenken.com
1958689;1583021751;dorion;!!v EEAB94B99BCD78B27FCF22D767DFE2EF0CD589596FD8FF6A7E4415BACC6D9A74
1958690;1583021752;deedbot;dorion rated billymg 4 << he's doing good mp-wp work, writes at billymg.com
1958691;1583021796;*;dorion is done rating for now.
1958692;1583022962;mp_en_viaje;billymg, just about, wanna-be ameristan. god knows they're spending every available moment clucking at their cluckers. how exactly would that produce substantially different results is anyone's guess.
1958693;1583052283;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-29#1958594 - ahaha, this sounds so much ~Apoi drumeţul se întoarse acasă şi petrecu lângă ai săi, pe cari-i socoti mai cu duh decât pe cei ce văzuse în călătoria sa.
1958694;1583052283;ossabot;Logged on 2020-02-29 19:38:43 mp_en_viaje: eleven months and a common man's fortune expended towards the scouring of olde yurp has in the end made me quite happy to be back home.
1958695;1583052293;mp_en_viaje;you know ?
1958696;1583052318;diana_coman;sadly, I quite know, myeah
1958697;1583052355;mp_en_viaje;can't even put into words the "how come", it's just simply that everyone in costa rica is stupid naturally and only to the extension it can't be helped,
1958698;1583052367;mp_en_viaje;whereas the common yurpean is proud of how fucking dumb he's come to be.
1958699;1583052415;mp_en_viaje;of course the perverse part of this is that home turns out to be a tiny unknown strip of jungle 1/4 globe away from my place of birth. but then again, what can you do.
1958700;1583052493;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in cititoriy intreaba, [http://trilema.com/2011/cupluri-si-relatii/#comment-147652][noi raspundem]... do you recall where that friend of mine who lived with a dog is mentioned ?
1958701;1583052520;diana_coman;well, it takes hard work to get dumb, so ...proud of all the effort!
1958702;1583052522;mp_en_viaje;cititoriy roflmao. i've been hanging out with lanky blonde whores too long!!
1958703;1583052590;diana_coman;cr is unlikely to have those from what I saw.
1958704;1583052700;mp_en_viaje;hm ?
1958705;1583052702;diana_coman;hm, I recall reading the mention + there was surely something in one of your stories but no handle for search comes to mind right now.
1958706;1583052713;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: the lanky blonde whores don't seem to be native to cr, lol
1958707;1583052733;mp_en_viaje;oh. no, ukraina. one can import anything!
1958708;1583052758;mp_en_viaje;the curse and also the blessing^Hcurse of the modern man.
1958709;1583052760;diana_coman;ahaha, all right then.
1958710;1583052808;mp_en_viaje;how's the coronal flu in england proud these days ? have ye sad lot seceeded from scotland yet ?
1958711;1583052879;diana_coman;I think that'd be too much work!
1958712;1583052915;mp_en_viaje;right, maybe if they do it themselves. but eventually did quit the eu ? or still "men at work, road closed" ?
1958713;1583053019;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: ah, with the 1st of Feb, yes; as the silent poison said [http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/15/the-i-eye-and-aye/?b=circus&e=#select][the circus] is still on though.
1958714;1583053059;mp_en_viaje;did it do anything yet, as far as can be directly determined ?
1958715;1583053065;diana_coman;re flu it's all right, I'm sure there's plenty of advice and "we'll take care of it" everywhere, except I never quite bother to look and it didn't seem to make any difference
1958716;1583053099;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: neah; well, it made for less interesting "pm's questions" show on wednesdays, that's about it all.
1958717;1583053105;mp_en_viaje;the costa ricans wanted to know whether i visited china, iran or korea in the interval. i wanted to know how they arrived at the list. they wanted to know if i don't watch the news or what's my problem.
1958718;1583053127;diana_coman;ahahah; I thought it was Italy the trouble now!
1958719;1583053148;mp_en_viaje;honestly, if they had forbidden italians travel back in say 1920, it might've saved argentina.
1958720;1583053152;mp_en_viaje;by now, the shit's out of the vessel.
1958721;1583053358;diana_coman;heh, that reminds me of a "work of art" that answered the q of why is Italy shaped like a boot: because that much shit would never fit in a shoe!
1958722;1583053374;*;diana_coman can't find ofc the article on own blog though I think I did write it.
1958723;1583053565;diana_coman;ha, found it! though the bit is in [http://ossasepia.com/2010/07/26/nu-fiti-fraieri-ca-ajunge-lenesi/#comment-862][a comment], the topic fits anyway, I'd say.
1958724;1583053622;*;mp_en_viaje was reading old ro artyicles anyays, lessee!
1958725;1583053758;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, pfoai tu ce s-o ales de ala ? vaz ca saitu' ii tat [http://archive.is//UPrEj][chinaspam] ca al lu' [http://trilema.com/2011/de-ce-nu-ma-place-beranger-v4/#comment-147607][alalatu'] emigrat inteligent.
1958726;1583053760;mp_en_viaje;saracii astia...
1958727;1583053810;mp_en_viaje;Șapte reguli, trei zicale, ce mai zis-a unul mare, hai ca ie bine.
1958728;1583053836;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: ahaha, ce vrei si tu de la 2010.
1958729;1583053864;mp_en_viaje;no, but i say it plainly, it's fine
1958730;1583053934;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: ah, zamo? no idea, kind of drifted away and "too busy" etc so not exactly surprising.
1958731;1583054005;mp_en_viaje;"Filozofii Regi si Parlamentul Perfect - Also Sprach Zamolxis" how do you like them apples! gnat can't survive a decade, mouthfulla big ticket items, philosophers, kings, why the hell not.
1958732;1583054034;mp_en_viaje;i don't recall where's included that picture with the 12yo boy looking angry from under an abundance of spurious shaving cream, but anyways.
1958733;1583054206;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, amusingly enough, if one were tasked to discuss your evolution over the past decade, it'd inescapably run something like "she moved on -- from the theoretical, to the practical". am i detaining you from the day's restatement in #o of the basic explanations re "somewhat of a superficial approximation of work" or have you already done the day's quota ?
1958734;1583054311;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: ahaha, it's usually around 7pm UTC for that so no, not yet, heh.
1958735;1583054335;*;diana_coman thinking re theoretical to the practical.
1958736;1583054339;mp_en_viaje;it's going to end up a satirical piece, "diana : fetch me my arms! page, after a time : i went in the arms room and looked around, saw arms there. diana : good, now fetch. page, after another time : i lifted various over the head, and came back to tell after setting them down again. room for improvmenent : next time ima set them back down in the same places i lifted therm up from"
1958737;1583054439;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: ahahah, not that far away at times, no.
1958738;1583054449;mp_en_viaje;"diana  : just bring them here. page, after a time : here's a sketch i drew of me bringing them over."
1958739;1583054515;mp_en_viaje;there was a time when amelia bedelia was a funny character.
1958740;1583056545;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in other lulz, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+wear+make-up+in+a+god+honoring+way
1958741;1583056547;mp_en_viaje;it's a thing!
1958742;1583058575;*;mp_en_viaje re-read http://trilema.com/2012/clasele-sociale-din-socialismul-contemporan/ ; remarkable how little has fucking changed.
1958743;1583061385;mp_en_viaje;hanbot hey remember http://trilema.com/2013/since-theres-no-end-of-these-unidentified-pointless-objects/ ? :D
1958744;1583062111;mp_en_viaje;and speaking of http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/29/a-basic-requirement-for-the-literate-introducing-of-new-tools/#fn3-5091 what's trinque up to these days ?!
1958745;1583062141;mp_en_viaje;why all the spurts, man ?
1958746;1583062565;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-02-17#1001392 << you can't be serious ?! how's about say cat ? | grep http | sed 's/http/\nhttp/g' | grep ^http | sed 's/\(^http[^ <]*\)\(.*\)/\1/g'
1958747;1583062565;ossabot;(trilema-hanbot) 2020-02-17 BingoBoingo: hanbot_abroad diana_coman: The problem of identifying an article url on a blog url without importing python or something else heavy has me stumped, so I've been reconsidering the possibility of blasting out a crawl over serveral degrees. The flow filewise would be something like 'churn' to 'churndomains' to 'churn2' to 'churndomains2' and so on out to the ending on a list of all the urls scraped in the third or four
1958748;1583062589;mp_en_viaje;or do you mean something else ?
1958749;1583070615;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: http://bvt-trace.net/2020/02/vsh-parts-25-and-3-one-binary-ada-solver-and-ada-vfilter-implementation/#comment-149
1958750;1583071928;trinque;mp_en_viaje: I'm around, been turning a meager win into a sustainable machine.
1958751;1583071944;trinque;diana_coman: I'm happy to "fix my quoting". Who is the source of truth for mpwp?
1958752;1583071956;trinque;if there isn't currently an answer, I'll host the patches.
1958753;1583071973;trinque;I don't have w/e patch improves the quoting mechanism apparently
1958754;1583072064;*;trinque recently fixed his theme and sidebar, so hopefully it's otherwise in a somewhat more useful state
1958755;1583072079;mp_en_viaje;trinque, cool. so... line1, basically the linux discussion on yoru blog is tabled till q2 ? till 2021 ? something in between ? line 2. we gonna read the story of that win and turning or is it likely to have to be sikrit ?
1958756;1583072095;mp_en_viaje;line 3, you coming to costa rica ?
1958757;1583072132;diana_coman;trinque: billymg works on mpwp and hosts the [http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/][full tree] afaik.
1958758;1583072177;diana_coman;trinque: but I am not sure I follow what you say there - what do you mean by quoting? the select?
1958759;1583072233;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, i suspect billymg 's thing might not actually include http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/#comment-132249
1958760;1583072318;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: if trinque means indeed that aka the selection mechanism,that is anyway not going to be in the tree since it requires a change to the *theme*'s file, no?
1958761;1583072339;trinque;not tabled, and I apologize for the delay. I think it needs about one more post, and then there'll be a whole item described. I've been digging into that this weekend, ought to be able to squeeze it out today or tomorrow.
1958762;1583072392;trinque;re: CR, is there a meeting planned, or is this an open ended question?
1958763;1583072412;trinque;diana_coman: could perhaps include it as a util you can pull into your theme or not
1958764;1583072433;trinque;I've also done some spelunking in the php myself, and there might be other ways to pull it in aside theme, if I can see the patch
1958765;1583072446;trinque;there's a get_header func or something, could come in via that.
1958766;1583072497;*;trinque brb, coffee
1958767;1583072521;diana_coman;trinque: the ref for the select mechanism is mp_en_viaje's link above aka the article on trilema really; not a vpatch as such afaik.
1958768;1583075208;mp_en_viaje;trinque, rather open ended
1958769;1583075218;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, yes.
1958770;1583075290;mp_en_viaje;the whole "theme" thing is iffy, and part and parcel of why this particular tree (mp-wp) is so deeply misbehaving is that it rests upon a large pile of intricate design errors and failures.
1958771;1583075364;mp_en_viaje;i practically have the choice of either publishing a screamingly offensive non-patch in november of 2019, or else wait until there's a place to meaningfully add it as a patch ; which necessarily is stalled on "what the fuck is the correct cut for themes, cuz it seems evident it isn't what's now done", which in turn rests on a half dozen or so more nodes that are all further away from what is actually being worked now.
1958772;1583075524;mp_en_viaje;in my mind the ideal theme would be a config file, not the current pile of actually executable files wth theme is that. columns = 2; main = left ; main = 2/3; is a theme.
1958773;1583075579;mp_en_viaje;such that someone could try out a theme without having to ~read code~ or worry that who knows what rm -rf is in there
1958774;1583075688;mp_en_viaje;but i see no hope of working all of this out besides taking it by steps and degrees.
1958775;1583075775;mp_en_viaje;then if people don't use the proper linking thing and the dysfunctional js one becomes too entrenched we'll be stuck with it forever and so on and so forth.
1958776;1583075896;mp_en_viaje;trinque, billymg and iirc whaack are here on a more or less permanent basis, so something could most likely be organized, too.
1958777;1583075911;mp_en_viaje;speaking of which, where in cr are you whaack ? i dun remember
1958778;1583076022;mp_en_viaje;dorion, jfw bvt lobbes spyked & other interested parties -- you wanna make something of it ?
1958779;1583076068;mp_en_viaje;i know how to get excellent veuve clicquot & such, etc
1958780;1583076120;mp_en_viaje;iirc diana_coman liked it here last year
1958781;1583076124;*;mp_en_viaje goes to dig for pix
1958782;1583076166;mp_en_viaje;http://ossasepia.com/2018/09/04/pura-vida-like-no-other/ there we go
1958783;1583076383;*;diana_coman realises she did not take a pic of the steak!
1958784;1583076470;diana_coman;hah, it's 2 years ago already, what last year.
1958785;1583076652;mp_en_viaje;well, ok, 16 months. you coming back ?
1958786;1583076725;mp_en_viaje;the idea of the dead reckoning bus seating is fabulous. "hello sir, your seat is three steps left from greeting stewardess, two steps right after that"
1958787;1583077113;diana_coman;I honestly have no idea; I did obtain finally all the possible passports though so at least I *can* go anywhere.
1958788;1583077182;billymg;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958703 << i have a strong feeling the reason it's *not* this, and the reason the mp-wp genesis is 7x the size of trb genesis by LOC, is because it was designed by the [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-18#1958194]["no one user matters more than another"] crowd
1958789;1583077182;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-01 11:28:37 mp_en_viaje: in my mind the ideal theme would be a config file, not the current pile of actually executable files wth theme is that. columns = 2; main = left ; main = 2/3; is a theme.
1958790;1583077182;ossabot;Logged on 2020-02-18 19:29:06 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: to my mind the "no one user matters more than another" means of course "no user matters at all" ; because it follows by necessity.
1958791;1583077251;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, well, the problem with anywhere not-here is that the summers do get too hot and the winters too cold.  i intend to travel maybe to brazil may-ish, but otherwise i expect i'll be mostly around, so if you feel like it...
1958792;1583077257;mp_en_viaje;billymg, quite possible indeed.
1958793;1583077326;billymg;as for vpatching the server side select mechanism, since mp-wp ships with two base themes a patch could at least be made to include the select mechanism in those. seeing as how most people copy/paste one of the included theme directories to customize/create their own
1958794;1583077354;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: noted.
1958795;1583077396;billymg;at least as an interim until proper theming in mp-wp is solved, just so the correct select mechanism is at least included in the package on first press
1958796;1583077433;mp_en_viaje;billymg, i think that'd be the salutary thing ; that wayy it'll at least carry over passively through edits
1958797;1583077496;mp_en_viaje;mind though that you include the whole shebang, the reason i linked to that comment rather than the article plainly is that the ~correct~ auto-select stubs on pingback were only introduced there
1958798;1583077552;billymg;mp_en_viaje: got it, makes sense
1958799;1583077592;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, i hope it doesn't come across as any kind of disinterest or noninviting. i very much would like to do more steaks, but i don't want to produce an obligation.
1958800;1583077644;mp_en_viaje;billymg, with it, one gets the great advantage that pingbacks to his blog also link to the correct place in the article, which imo is big.
1958801;1583078008;billymg;mp_en_viaje: agree. ugh, yeah, i've really been meaning to publish a roadmap for mp-wp that others can comment on
1958802;1583078022;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: thank you and no worries at all; I hope I didn't come across as not wanting to visit either, it's more the 12+ hours travel one way that gives me pause.
1958803;1583078025;billymg;i'll do that this week
1958804;1583078040;billymg;(the roadmap article that is)
1958805;1583079968;diana_coman;bvt: I'll have to check closer what's going wrong with the script on my machine as there seems to be some weird going on, possibly at output rather than anything deeper.
1958806;1583079983;BingoBoingo;mp_en_viaje: Thank you. I've been making progress fitting more of the tools in my hand and building with them. diana_coman is working me on how to plan, re-examining my relationship with time and how I budget it, and grounding myself in practicality. I've surrendered to diana_coman's mastery and the breaches in my head aren't completely closed yet, but I'm surrendered and working her program.
1958807;1583079983;diana_coman;the above is re the v.sh script .
1958808;1583080441;bvt;ty. if you gzip the work directory and publish it somewhere i'll look into it as well. i also took a stab at indented flow output (http://bvt-trace.net/2020/02/vsh-parts-25-and-3-one-binary-ada-solver-and-ada-vfilter-implementation/#comment-150)
1958809;1583080482;bvt;mp_en_viaje: http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/29/a-basic-requirement-for-the-literate-introducing-of-new-tools/#comment-7669
1958810;1583082435;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, i just did it, so yeah. fly avianca though, via colombia, leaving either spain or germany. easily the best airline over the atlantic today.
1958811;1583082455;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, a aite then.
1958812;1583082565;mp_en_viaje;bvt, aha, worx
1958813;1583086813;mp_en_viaje;"On the more positive side, based on what he has told us, he made a career from designing and implementing HFT systems for a wide range of fiat exchanges and instruments. He told us at one point he was paying $20k/month for leased lines." << from experience, none of these claims are ever true. [http://trilema.com/2014/how-the-other-half-lives-or-michael-o-church-is-a-scummy-fuckwit/?b=roughly%20Di&e=equivalent#select][people just say thi
1958814;1583086814;mp_en_viaje;ngs].
1958815;1583092865;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/01/martisor/ << Ossa Sepia -- Martisor
1958816;1583095108;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2020-report/ << Qntra -- Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2020 Report
1958817;1583095763;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: http://bvt-trace.net/2020/02/vsh-parts-25-and-3-one-binary-ada-solver-and-ada-vfilter-implementation/#comment-152
1958818;1583096625;diana_coman;bvt: http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/29/a-basic-requirement-for-the-literate-introducing-of-new-tools/#comment-7673
1958819;1583103342;trinque;mp_en_viaje: I might be able to travel in summer, don't mind the mugginess as long as there's beach.
1958820;1583103370;trinque;billymg: what did you think of my proposal to suck the quoter up into the get_header func?
1958821;1583103410;trinque;if the problem with wp is that it was designed "for everybody", putting improvements in an optional codepath (themes) seems exactly the wrong thing.
1958822;1583103886;billymg;trinque: i haven't looked closely enough at it yet to say but i will check out get_header and see if i can get it working that way. ty for the lead on that
1958823;1583103950;billymg;trinque: also, hey, i've got about a week left here in austin. if you're not too busy let me know if you'd be up for a drink or some steaks
1958824;1583114545;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/cisco-lays-off-and-pivots-while-huawei-grows/ << Qntra -- Cisco Lays Off And Pivots While Huawei Grows
1958825;1583120202;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/bitstamp-plays-with-novelty-segwit-only-bech32-addresses/ << Qntra -- Bitstamp Plays With Novelty Segwit Only Bech32 Addresses
1958826;1583153628;mp_en_viaje;trinque, what mugginess ?!
1958827;1583153734;mp_en_viaje;i don't think you understand ; costa rica is austin in march/april 12 months a year.
1958828;1583153831;mp_en_viaje;trinque, the problem with your proposal is that the article isn't yet loaded at that point.
1958829;1583154103;*;mp_en_viaje goes to look if http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958755 includes linkage to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-09-10#1539177 & http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-08-17#1523408 & http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-06-28#1492053 an' http://trilema.com/2014/dear-derps-you-are-being-herded/?b=CISCO&e=USG#select historical commentary.
1958830;1583154103;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-01 22:19:01 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/03/cisco-lays-off-and-pivots-while-huawei-grows/ << Qntra -- Cisco Lays Off And Pivots While Huawei Grows
1958831;1583154103;ossabot;Logged on 2016-09-10 09:16:45 mircea_popescu: hard to properly word a "company not around" clause is the problem. according to usg, ibm and cisco are both "still around".
1958832;1583154103;ossabot;Logged on 2016-08-17 14:52:13 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform people stopped buying new cisco cca 2012 anyway.
1958833;1583154104;ossabot;Logged on 2016-06-28 10:49:54 mircea_popescu: possibly same garbage dump cisco went
1958834;1583154177;mp_en_viaje;a look, links the article. a ok
1958835;1583176252;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/the-buller-podington-compacts/ << Trilema -- The Buller-Podington Compacts.
1958836;1583178459;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958744 - thanks for the link and reality check. I have been skeptical given the negatives noted. all I've been able to find so far to verify is his partner's finra brokercheck checks out with his linkedin - for whatever those are worth.
1958837;1583178459;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-01 14:36:47 mp_en_viaje: "On the more positive side, based on what he has told us, he made a career from designing and implementing HFT systems for a wide range of fiat exchanges and instruments. He told us at one point he was paying $20k/month for leased lines." << from experience, none of these claims are ever true. [http://trilema.com/2014/how-the-other-half-lives-or-michael-o-church-is-a-scummy-fuckwit/?b=roughly%20Di&e=equivalent#sel
1958838;1583178476;dorion;what are the best ways to verify such claims in your experience ?
1958839;1583178482;mp_en_viaje;nothing wrong with a paying customer.
1958840;1583178499;mp_en_viaje;the only way you care to verify is whether the check bounces.
1958841;1583178569;dorion;aok. we sent him the proposal today, so we'll soon find out.
1958842;1583183902;mod6;mp_en_viaje: Hey there, Sir.  Now that you're back to CR (glad you had a good trip), plz to process mpex withdrawls when you have an extra few minutes.  Thanks in advance.
1958843;1583187770;bvt;diana_coman: http://bvt-trace.net/2020/02/vsh-parts-25-and-3-one-binary-ada-solver-and-ada-vfilter-implementation/#comment-153
1958844;1583188764;diana_coman;bvt: answered but it's in modq
1958845;1583196020;mp_en_viaje;mod6, i didn't end up in costa rica by accident, you know ?
1958846;1583196035;mp_en_viaje;but yeah, we're still in the original plan, should be done by end of march.
1958847;1583196086;mp_en_viaje;speaking of which, anything re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-14#1956862 BingoBoingo ?
1958848;1583196086;ossabot;Logged on 2020-01-14 08:58:52 mircea_popescu: i will want a full release ready to go concomitantly, so if your client isn't liable to be around then maybe deed it prior.
1958849;1583196143;BingoBoingo;!!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HT44
1958850;1583196148;deedbot;accepted: 1
1958851;1583196278;BingoBoingo;Fed it into deedbot before, but it seems deedbot deeding from chan may be requiring some manual intervention on trinque's side.
1958852;1583197008;mp_en_viaje;oh ? i missed it
1958853;1583197029;mp_en_viaje;cool.
1958854;1583198363;mod6;mp_en_viaje: Ahhh, alright, thanks for the update.
1958855;1583208331;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958692 - [http://trinque.org/2020/01/20/a-republican-os-part-3/#comment-155][you had said] the next would how V enters the picture. Is that still the plan ? did you expand and roll the spec you had in mind in there ?
1958856;1583208331;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-01 10:35:31 trinque: not tabled, and I apologize for the delay. I think it needs about one more post, and then there'll be a whole item described. I've been digging into that this weekend, ought to be able to squeeze it out today or tomorrow.
1958857;1583208406;*;dorion apologizes that wasn't asked 3 weeks ago.
1958858;1583237013;mp_en_viaje;bvt, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=J5sq
1958859;1583237333;mp_en_viaje;trinque, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=z-Ea
1958860;1583238155;jurov;!!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ClBs
1958861;1583238158;deedbot;Bad URL or network outage.
1958862;1583238171;jurov;!!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=xt5z
1958863;1583238173;deedbot;accepted: 1
1958864;1583245998;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/to-my-mind-bureaucracy/ << Trilema -- To my mind, bureaucracy...
1958865;1583251378;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958709 - I'm game.
1958866;1583251378;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-01 11:36:55 mp_en_viaje: dorion, jfw bvt lobbes spyked & other interested parties -- you wanna make something of it ?
1958867;1583251417;mp_en_viaje;you still hq'd in panama ?
1958868;1583251456;jfw;yep
1958869;1583251615;mp_en_viaje;well that's like an hour's flight, huh
1958870;1583251705;jfw;yeah not bad, probably more time in waiting and ground transport
1958871;1583251718;mp_en_viaje;aite, so hop on
1958872;1583251770;jfw;got a time frame in mind yet?
1958873;1583252379;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/cheap-usd-usg-open-market-committee-announces-emergency-interest-rate-cut-largest-since-2008/ << Qntra -- Cheap USD: USG "Open Market Committee" Announces Emergency Interest Rate Cut, Largest Since 2008
1958874;1583252605;mp_en_viaje;jfw, well, i plan on maybe going to rio late may  ; other than that i'll be mostly around. pick a day, i don't specifically care which and it doesn't make any sense for you to try and coordinate with large groups at large distances -- if indeed there's a gathering you can take the hourish trip down again, at the considerable cost to you of a lunch out or w/e it is.
1958875;1583254440;jfw;mp_en_viaje: alright, I'll go for Saturday March 28th. If that works for others too, so much the merrier.
1958876;1583254455;mp_en_viaje;cool.
1958877;1583254653;jfw;mp_en_viaje: what would be the town to stay in?
1958878;1583254678;mp_en_viaje;costa rica is small, there's only practically the town of san jose.
1958879;1583254704;jfw;heh, well whaack managed to find a beach with a commute to the grocery store
1958880;1583254711;mp_en_viaje;everything else is you know, subrural. not as in, evansville rural, but as in "there is not a hotel here, just a gas station" rural.
1958881;1583254791;mp_en_viaje;in any case, try and get a place on the west side, all the nice beaches are on the pacific coast, it'll save you an hour or so in infernal tico trafic to cross the town.
1958882;1583254838;jfw;ty, noted
1958883;1583254842;mp_en_viaje;heredia (where the local aspie class huddles) is pretty shitty, santa ana insanely expensive, escazu full of retarded (mostly retired) gringos.
1958884;1583254844;mp_en_viaje;pick your poison.
1958885;1583254960;mp_en_viaje;of course, if you're curious you can also go live downtown, hire a room in one of the prostitute hotels, get some very real 1950s bronx experience under your belt.
1958886;1583255016;jfw;ooh, with complementary bedlice?
1958887;1583255083;*;jfw checks, notes "bedlice" not actually a word
1958888;1583255411;mp_en_viaje;nah, lifetime poor people are universally cleaner than the suburban priss mind gives them credit (on the basis of their very limited experience of bums, who are very specifically NOT the same thing -- a bum is an idiot with delusions of grandeur, a poor kid from a poor family is simply bereft of means)
1958889;1583255431;mp_en_viaje;just, you know, ACTUALLY threadbare sheets, something i doubt you've ever seen irl.
1958890;1583255465;mp_en_viaje;toothless 30yo women, "you get 32 teeth at birth, you can have 32 explanations in this life", and so on.
1958891;1583255567;jfw;I admit I haven't seen.
1958892;1583255680;mp_en_viaje;cuz they're hard to make, you know, chinese sheet can be had for what, $3. threadbare sheet can be had for 5-10k nights slept in, and handwashing weekly. what's that cost, $1mn ?
1958893;1583255771;jfw;They must have them only at the finest places!
1958894;1583255796;mp_en_viaje;i read once a sf story about some future world so bereft of actual meaning, people were buying "memories"
1958895;1583255807;mp_en_viaje;so, yes, rather -- only at the finest places.
1958896;1583259364;dorion;mp_en_viaje , jfw I'm game for the weekend of the 28th.
1958897;1583259460;billymg;count me in for the 28th as well
1958898;1583262140;mp_en_viaje;billymg, i thought you lived here
1958899;1583262144;mp_en_viaje;dorion, a nice!
1958900;1583263893;billymg;mp_en_viaje: yup, i'll be there permanently as of next monday. just figured i'd doubly confirm that i'll be around that weekend
1958901;1583264312;billymg;mp_en_viaje: i didn't mean to invite myself to anything though, if it was meant to be only for a smaller group i'm happy to wait until called upon
1958902;1583265250;mp_en_viaje;not that, but i figured we actually go have a cup of coffee this week
1958903;1583265410;billymg;ah cool, yeah that would be good too
1958904;1583265510;billymg;anytime after tuesday should work, just so i can rest after the flight over
1958905;1583279059;whaack;mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958708 Apologies, I had responded to this without having +v and didn't realize the message didn't go through. (thankfully jfw pointed out I had missed the msg) I'm in Playa Junquillal, a beach in Guanacaste (the nearest city is Santa Cruz) . It's pretty close to billymg's location. I am game for the 28th.
1958906;1583279059;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-01 11:35:04 mp_en_viaje: speaking of which, where in cr are you whaack ? i dun remember
1958907;1583284258;mp_en_viaje;billymg, cool.
1958908;1583284327;mp_en_viaje;whaack, i usually beach central rather than north, but maybe we drive up there one day, check it out
1958909;1583291010;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/o-san-josy-da-flaar-o-costa-ricky/ << Trilema -- O San Josy, da fla'ar o' Costa Ricky...
1958910;1583299385;whaack;mp_en_viaje: cool, if you do a beach trip nearby and would like to surf I'll take care of the boards etc.
1958911;1583321569;mp_en_viaje;maybe the bimbo, i'm old and lazy. but ty!
1958912;1583321615;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958772 << in retrospect, i suspect maybe you don't take my meaning.
1958913;1583321615;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-02 16:06:09 dorion: aok. we sent him the proposal today, so we'll soon find out.
1958914;1583321662;mp_en_viaje;suppose you were a latex salesman ; suppose we both and with these other fellows worked for a latex mfg co. suppose you were sent to a latex convention sometime. suppose there you met some fellows, did some business, had some drinks, maybe a local secretary up to your hotel room, whatever.
1958915;1583321729;mp_en_viaje;upon you return, you recount how it went. one of the  things you say is "hey, do you know the one with the two nuns and the...", on the basis of a fellow latex salesman unknown to us having told you a dirty joke over drinks one night in the hotel lobby, after coming back from the business and before going up to the personal assistants in the rooms.
1958916;1583321745;mp_en_viaje;and i say "you know, from experience these never actually occured".
1958917;1583321810;mp_en_viaje;this is, perhaps, a weird thing to say ; then again i'm a weird sort of guy. to retort that "well... how would i go about verifying it" is pretty good repartee in the fancied context i just described.
1958918;1583321880;mp_en_viaje;back at reality, however, things stand a little differently : ustardians have, for some ungodly reason, painted themselves in such a corner of insecurity, anxiety and inferiority selfcomplexation, ALL their social banter consists of these lame as  fuck self-anecdotes, like a bunch of neoprotestant farmers discussing nothing but their crops, and how well they've done ploughing. goldarn an' blue blazes!!!
1958919;1583321966;mp_en_viaje;you asking me how to verify an anecdote, the very substance of social banter, denotes you miss the point ; and it paints my observation in its true colors : i'm baiting, because i suspect you might.
1958920;1583321968;mp_en_viaje;see ?
1958921;1583331717;mp_en_viaje;aaand in "other questions nobody [was smart enough to have] [http://trilema.com/2018/imaginary-questions-nobody-asked-of-me-an-incomplete-compendium/][asked of me]" : "hey mp, why do you always cat file | awk ? isn't it awkward ? don't you know awk can load its own file directly by itself ?"
1958922;1583331717;mp_en_viaje;"try it on large files [with post-[http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-19#1958379][retard] awk]."
1958923;1583331718;ossabot;Logged on 2020-02-19 21:23:42 mircea_popescu: "literate" veals, very capable of scribbling their own name in an alphabet of their choice (somehow nobody notices "using an alphabet of your own choice" is THE OPPOSITE OF SPELLING, and the exact definition of illiteracy -- all the fucking farmhands who can't read or write COULD scribble something down, anyone can screech random squgg;lies, with a shovel in a pile of dirt, with their own piss on driven snow, f
1958924;1583331744;mp_en_viaje;ahahaha check it out, nesting works correctly. WIN.
1958925;1583337832;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/04/no-bones-in-thy-skeleton-and-no-theory-in-thy-research/ << Ossa Sepia -- No Bones in Thy Skeleton and No Theory in Thy Research
1958926;1583337984;*;diana_coman clears up a pile of paper notes as the write-up is finally done.
1958927;1583337991;mp_en_viaje;yay wf
1958928;1583337993;mp_en_viaje;wd*
1958929;1583339061;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/i-suppose-we-shall-now-recount-the-story-of-the-czech-teenager/ << Trilema -- I suppose we shall now recount the story of the Czech teenager
1958930;1583344385;dorion;mp_en_viaje hm, not sure I do see. you're baiting to see the degree to which I remain ustardian painted into the corner ? ftr, I for sure want to be aware.
1958931;1583344395;dorion;in my mind, I talk to people to see who'd be a good fit. based on what they say, I decide if I want to continue talking to them. part of
1958932;1583344399;dorion; how I judge what they say is I look them up, ask around, etc.
1958933;1583344583;dorion;in this case in particular, a friend made the intro and brought me to the guys' office. later we went for drinks, watched a fight, talked about non-business things. a week or two passed and he came back wanting another meeting to discuss how we work with them.
1958934;1583344667;mp_en_viaje;dorion, but there's a difference between the jokes they tell and the offer sheets they carry. the first is illustrated in la grande belezza, "Se non prendo sul serio Proust, che ci prendo sul serio ?" "Ma niente. Niente non devi prendere sul serio, acceti il menu, naturalmente."
1958935;1583344843;mp_en_viaje;the other's illustrated in glengarry glenn ross, "I want to show you something. It might mean nothing to you...and it might not. I don't know.  I don't know anymore. What is that?  Florida.  Glengarry Highlands.  Florida. "Florida. Bullshit." And maybe that's true; and that's what I said: but look here: what is this?  This is a piece of land.  Listen to what I'm going to tell you now:"
1958936;1583344907;mp_en_viaje;it's not a matter of degree, it's a matter of "does the man think there's one thing, or does the man think there's two things ?"
1958937;1583344913;mp_en_viaje;there's two things.
1958938;1583345240;mp_en_viaje;that make any sense ?
1958939;1583345424;dorion;mp_en_viaje discount what they say until they've executed on an offer ? act as if the check isn't going to cash until it does.
1958940;1583345507;mp_en_viaje;doesn't even have to be as harsh as all that. literature is not history nor history literature ; no ought yet flew from any is, in other words... you recall bacon ?
1958941;1583345560;mp_en_viaje;why should you be impolite, especially to prospects.
1958942;1583345632;dorion;I didn't mean it as how I treat them, but what my expectations are.
1958943;1583345719;mp_en_viaje;right. one day i met a girl, we fucked, then she told me i am her third. this [http://trilema.com/2011/serviciul-nemuririi-partea-i/?b=Mereu&e=doilea#select][happens] ; what do i care ? i didn't refrain from anything until her claim checked out (nor did i bother checking), what difference does it possibly make.
1958944;1583345765;mp_en_viaje;it is substantially the same as the male equivalent (which for some reason is formally opposite, "i leased 20k chicks in one year!!!". cool!
1958945;1583345823;mp_en_viaje;if i do check it out, and in a week return, "bitch, i know five guys that've done you" she'll ask me "so ?" and if i go "you lied" she'll leave because "you're a fucking idiot". she has a point, doesn't she.
1958946;1583345916;dorion;yeah, let them talk, watch them do and don't let what they say really affect what you do.
1958947;1583345924;mp_en_viaje;"people shouldn't lie" "motherfucker, I WAS TELLING A STORY!!!" what, "nevertheless!!!" what is this, jeffersonian democracy ?
1958948;1583345945;mp_en_viaje;dorion, right.
1958949;1583346041;mp_en_viaje;trilema is chock full of great stories (that happen to be true, sure, but they're not great, nor are they greater for being true)
1958950;1583346697;dorion;in local us amlbs stories, acquaintance than owns real estate brokerage/admin tells me he referred to his competition a guy he marked as a money launderer cause of new threats from local regulators. first bankers turn police, now real estate salesman, grocers next via accepting plastic only ?
1958951;1583346766;dorion;he still got paid from it, but took the lower referral commission.
1958952;1583346774;mp_en_viaje;in any case, this is the fundamental defect of all utopian "thinking", of the reformation ("the testament i read, and the testament that is, [http://trilema.com/2017/dupa-dealuri/?b=the%20man%20telling&e=a%20story#select][are the same testament]!!!") in general, and of pretty much all usian attempts, from "believe women" to "manifest destiny" or w/e. this hope to one thing.
1958953;1583346822;mp_en_viaje;dorion, sounds like a pretty dangerous course for a dying state, because the whole hope of extending survival is currently pinned on real estate monetization.
1958954;1583346854;mp_en_viaje;if they cock that one up, there's nothing left, last branch left to cut on the tree.
1958955;1583347436;dorion;dangerous indeed, but seems like "do what us says" is entrenched as only option since, by agreement, will lose canal and maybe eat bombs again otherwise.
1958956;1583347870;mp_en_viaje;o, this was panama ? i thought it was florida
1958957;1583347913;mp_en_viaje;whatevs, panama's got nothing to lose, for lack of having got anything in the first place.
1958958;1583349066;mp_en_viaje;there's a piece where ballas makes the point that "private" in the us just means state-owned-without-benefits ([http://trilema.com/2011/terifiantul-oribilul-adevar-despre-venitul-suplimentar-asigurat/?b=Sistemul%20nu%20doar&e=aproape-saraci#select][that] he meanwhile carefully deleted from his own site) ; panama is exactly the same thing in state terms : another way of being a us state but without benefitting from fed printouts.
1958959;1583349156;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-04#1958881 - with practical example of [http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/india-dormida-21.jpg][real estate in panama]
1958960;1583349156;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-04 14:48:29 dorion: in local us amlbs stories, acquaintance than owns real estate brokerage/admin tells me he referred to his competition a guy he marked as a money launderer cause of new threats from local regulators. first bankers turn police, now real estate salesman, grocers next via accepting plastic only ?
1958961;1583350054;mp_en_viaje;kinda ~all centroamerica really.
1958962;1583350091;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: it still reminds me of some Ro countryside.
1958963;1583350132;mp_en_viaje;outside of say muscel, never was that colorful
1958964;1583350200;*;diana_coman jots down note to actually take pictures next time she goes back to Ro.
1958965;1583350258;mp_en_viaje;you know ?
1958966;1583350421;diana_coman;well, the pics I really wish I had would cover the '80s rather, so dunno; but anyway, since can't take them in past, might as well take them when there next, what else to do.
1958967;1583350626;mp_en_viaje;ah
1958968;1583364419;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-04#1957893 - diana_coman observes I need more practice at figuring things out through discussion / asking than quietly on my own. Anyway, in my [http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/bitcoin-transactions-and-their-signing-2-attachment/][latest] I've attempted to sort out my thoughts on the matter. There are some questions there on the clearsigning
1958969;1583364419;jfw;proposal, but perhaps more simply asked: how is the message to be hashed+signed derived from the input with signatures in comments? And is that language-specific or what?
1958970;1583364419;ossabot;Logged on 2020-02-04 01:38:36 mircea_popescu: so given bvt's recent and indeed quite shiny [http://bvt-trace.net/2020/02/vsh-part-1-wrapper-script/][work on a new v] : is there any interest in actually attempting something like [http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-77][the new clearsign scheme] ?
1958971;1583364522;mp_en_viaje;jfw, what do you mean, how
1958972;1583364618;jfw;mp_en_viaje: well a signature can't sign itself, yes? so there is some transformation from clearsigned file to hash input.
1958973;1583364630;mp_en_viaje;moreover, how do bitcoin transactions figure into it ? are you talking about "the clearsigning proposal" as in, http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-75 ?
1958974;1583364727;jfw;mp_en_viaje: I mighta tried to stuff too much into one article... my original goal was to explain how bitcoin transactions embed the signatures in the broader context of other ways it can be done.
1958975;1583364744;jfw;and yes, that proposal
1958976;1583364777;mp_en_viaje;jfw, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log-search?q=oaep&chan=trilema ?
1958977;1583364894;jfw;hm, I've heard of it but was under the impression that padding is a different thing.
1958978;1583364929;mp_en_viaje;well then your problem has just been mostly resolved. you have to read up on padding, ideally start with shoup's restatement of oaep
1958979;1583364974;jfw;cool then, adding to the list.
1958980;1583365038;mp_en_viaje;now, that important part in there : are you asking how is the program to distinguish 4 through 9 from lines 11 through 14 ?
1958981;1583365185;jfw;yes, and also what it does with the non-signature parts of 11-14: drop the lines altogether?
1958982;1583365192;jfw;the ** etc.
1958983;1583365239;mp_en_viaje;in limine, it just looks for any file that ends with "*/ The Republic prevails. (2f20 5468 6520 5265 7075 626c 6963 2070 7265 7661 696c 732e 0a)", strips the first comment and splits the remainder by 2f2a 2053 6967 6e61 7475 7265 7320 666f 6c6c 6f77 203a 0a
1958984;1583365273;mp_en_viaje;the 1st fragment is the plaintext and the 2nd fragment is a line-array of signatures in the comment space hash format.
1958985;1583365524;jfw;still working on decoding that, lol.
1958986;1583365614;*;mp_en_viaje pats his encoder!
1958987;1583365887;jfw;The idea is that the original can be fed to the compiler / vpatch presser / whatever without such preprocessing though right? Hence the comment characters? Because for one obvious thing the "*/ The Republic prevails." would not be valid C (not trying to be pedantic, rather wondering if this illuminates some misunderstanding.)
1958988;1583366141;mp_en_viaje;what is such preprocessing ?
1958989;1583366167;mp_en_viaje;and yes, my bad, dyslexia made me put the */ in the wrong spot, sorry.
1958990;1583366182;jfw;The splitting of signatures from plaintext just described.
1958991;1583366194;mp_en_viaje;it was intended to be valid comment. i am annimated by the vague hope that there can be such a thing as "comment" in all languages
1958992;1583366198;mp_en_viaje;jfw, ah, yes.
1958993;1583366236;jfw;perhaps there is in any language of interest, but won't be the same comment
1958994;1583366244;mp_en_viaje;anyway, an extra line with ** is missing there to make it all right
1958995;1583366248;mp_en_viaje;jfw, how do you mean ?
1958996;1583366289;jfw;Different comment syntax in different languages. bash uses # while C has quite another meaning for that character for example.
1958997;1583366435;mp_en_viaje;myeah ;/
1958998;1583366605;mp_en_viaje;maybe ;; is the right choice ? o, no, of course not, C semanticized that too
1958999;1583366634;mp_en_viaje;-- works in ada and there alojne, and so the fuck on.
1959000;1583366637;mp_en_viaje;actually mysql too
1959001;1583366672;mp_en_viaje;honestly i think my first guess is also correct, /* */ is the widest
1959002;1583366788;mp_en_viaje;i guess we'll have to patch bash to recognize it, and that's that.
1959003;1583366972;jfw;Um. And ada, sql, patch, lisp, python... ~everything not C-like ?
1959004;1583367109;jfw;heh, apparently mysql does do /* */
1959005;1583367133;mp_en_viaje;mysql too.
1959006;1583367150;mp_en_viaje;a sorry lol.
1959007;1583367198;mp_en_viaje;jfw, what casn you do ? humanity requires a universal comment format, because there may not be computers before there's no literate code.
1959008;1583367258;mp_en_viaje;proposing to continue with "here, like this, there, like that" nonsense is much like proposing to continue with a formulation of arithmetic that has no 0 "because look at all these abacuses we made".
1959009;1583367261;mp_en_viaje;burn them.
1959010;1583367467;jfw;well then, seems we're solving a bigger problem than I realized
1959011;1583367477;mp_en_viaje;possibru
1959012;1583411132;mp_en_viaje;spyked, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=nf53
1959013;1583422327;nicoleci;whaack, id love to surf!
1959014;1583425297;jfw;also http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-04#1958852 occurred to me, and I figured "to irritate the kind of people who complain about such things". Looks like I should indeed ask more things.
1959015;1583425297;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-04 10:38:48 mp_en_viaje: aaand in "other questions nobody [was smart enough to have] [http://trilema.com/2018/imaginary-questions-nobody-asked-of-me-an-incomplete-compendium/][asked of me]" : "hey mp, why do you always cat file | awk ? isn't it awkward ? don't you know awk can load its own file directly by itself ?"
1959016;1583425441;jfw;I tried a nearby "GNU Awk 4.1.3" on 1gb of `yes`. The direct reading was consistently slower than both input redirection and cat | , which is certainly suspicious in itself; seemed to work though
1959017;1583427826;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-21#1958424 - she declines; for one thing, she translates into English only.
1959018;1583427826;ossabot;Logged on 2020-02-21 01:58:17 mircea_popescu: jfw, tell mom to come in sometime, i wouldn't mind commissioning ru versions of some trilema articles from ye 30year veteran editor of the executive intelligence review.
1959019;1583435827;mp_en_viaje;jfw, try on say 64gb
1959020;1583435838;mp_en_viaje;ah, okay.
1959021;1583456222;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/god-did-it-to-himself/ << Trilema -- God did it to himself
1959022;1583456228;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/control-of-steem-altcoin-network-successfully-sold-despite-challenger/ << Qntra -- Control Of "Steem" Altcoin Network Successfully Sold Despite Challenger
1959023;1583456297;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/some-cia-passwords-unveiled-at-trial-123abcdef-and-mysweetsummer/ << Qntra -- Some CIA Passwords Unveiled At Trial: 123ABCdef and mysweetsummer
1959024;1583456317;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/upditty/ << Trilema -- Upditty
1959025;1583456416;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/intel-cfo-concedes-competitors-will-maintain-process-node-lead-for-at-least-two-more-years/ << Qntra -- Intel CFO Concedes Competitors Will Maintain Process Node Lead For At Least Two More Years
1959026;1583457567;mp_en_viaje;heh
1959027;1583479824;mp_en_viaje;man asciilifeform & his gravitating windbag make for SUCH a moron field... what THE FUCK is "centralizing" about http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-77 ?
1959028;1583479902;mp_en_viaje;so you don't like lexis texas... fine, take her out. you wanna put [http://trilema.com/2020/upditty/][eleni mitzali] there instead ? fine, copy/paste it in, or instead. or change the order, or whatever the fuck. it's your fucking file. what the fuck.
1959029;1583479984;mp_en_viaje;have these idiots EVER been right about ANY ONE THING ?
1959030;1583480036;diana_coman;I doubt being right is their concern at all really.
1959031;1583480269;bvt;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958789 << http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=0ooc
1959032;1583480269;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-03 08:20:17 mp_en_viaje: bvt, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=J5sq
1959033;1583480304;bvt;diana_coman: i have a question about leafs command: can you explain how you use it? i gave it some thought, and honestly i fail to see how it is useful: after adding the manifest which linearizes the vpatches, "leafs" reports only one leaf, without showing the split vtree branches before it.
1959034;1583480310;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, i am too lazy to search where in the discussion on which blog inside which comment i made months ago the point that he's very poor at estimating anything and generally (and universally unreviewed) wrong
1959035;1583480340;mp_en_viaje;but this no longer seems a sufficien tstatement of the problem. has he EVER been right ? is there such a thing as the wonder of ONE correct prediction since he went along his merry stupid way ?
1959036;1583480354;bvt;i extended the [http://bvt-trace.net/2020/02/vsh-parts-25-and-3-one-binary-ada-solver-and-ada-vfilter-implementation/#comment-150][examples] to also show vpatches selected for presses (http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=8Hrq): would this make "leafs" not needed in your view?
1959037;1583480377;mp_en_viaje;because each time someone blows a fuse and ends up wanting an official word, i end up looking at some shit so stupid it's beyond this world.
1959038;1583480377;bvt;btw, "vtree" command name is also subject to discussion, and it still shows the "leafs" with '(*)' mark.
1959039;1583480416;mp_en_viaje;bvt, fine.
1959040;1583480460;diana_coman;bvt: looks perfectly fine to me; and as long as there is how to see the whole tree in text , there's no need as such for separate leaves, no
1959041;1583480503;diana_coman;or at least no need that I can see, even if the tree is huge.
1959042;1583480530;mp_en_viaje;bvt, i think a large part of it is that indeed this tool is evoloving ; and has been, but deliberately under the specific sort of pressurte, which comes with usage. you're not under some great weight of "having to get it perfectly & forever right" now, just as mod6 or ben_vulpes or anytone else wasn't 3 years ago.
1959043;1583480570;mp_en_viaje;not taking steps back is already arch-sufficient.
1959044;1583480581;mp_en_viaje;btw diana_coman is there some reason A Walk among the Trees of V stands out in http://ossasepia.com/2019/ ?
1959045;1583480643;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: well, since it does, there must be an issue; no reason though, lol.
1959046;1583480648;mp_en_viaje;:p
1959047;1583480650;*;diana_coman adds it to the list of wtf.
1959048;1583480707;bvt;good, so i guess i can release a vpatch this weekend
1959049;1583480782;mp_en_viaje;cool!
1959050;1583480816;diana_coman;bvt: cool, I should be able to give it another spin on Monday the latest (or so is the current plan).
1959051;1583481083;mp_en_viaje;billymg, http://trilema.com/2020/our-democracy-or-rather-mostly-theirs/#comment-147687 << you know, i actually live in costa rica, i ain't going anywhere. what http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958805 means is that i'll be in costa rica till late may, and then from june onwards ; it's true i've lived 11 months in 33 or some shit euro towns, but that was a brief interruption as these things go -- before that i lived in cr
1959052;1583481083;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-03 12:40:10 mp_en_viaje: jfw, well, i plan on maybe going to rio late may  ; other than that i'll be mostly around. pick a day, i don't specifically care which and it doesn't make any sense for you to try and coordinate with large groups at large distances -- if indeed there's a gathering you can take the hourish trip down again, at the considerable cost to you of a lunch out or w/e it is.
1959053;1583481083;mp_en_viaje;a coupla years, and even if before that argentina etc, as i told the (new) manager of my old indian restaurant : "i've been coming here for fifteen years". literally, since 2005, just about this time of year, place's had at least three owners that i know of in the interval and a dozen or more generations of peacocks, but i perdure.
1959054;1583484842;mp_en_viaje;jfw, incidentally, thinking about it -- the one (and, for that matter, only) item that actually needs first class, os support is user-initiated, thorough, complete and reliable storage media destruction.
1959055;1583484872;mp_en_viaje;there's no real need for ctrl-alt-del to be supported. there is however an absolute need for some manner of user-set, five-keystroke wipe-everything.
1959056;1583484906;mp_en_viaje;absolutely with no "gui" or otherwise interaction whatever.
1959057;1583484977;mp_en_viaje;you do q-qw-q-w-q or w/e you set it to, that's IT, prepare the bootable isos.
1959058;1583498053;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in incidental lulz, [http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-051219.html][women in satan]
1959059;1583499484;diana_coman;I'll counter that with today's blog-spam: "metal pants!"
1959060;1583499704;mp_en_viaje;might as well dump https://fsfellowship.eu/fsfe-resignations-and-expulsions/ lulz into the archive.
1959061;1583499710;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, you mean like, chastity ?
1959062;1583499733;diana_coman;I have no idea; that's what the spam said and it made to me ~as much sense as that log.
1959063;1583499795;mp_en_viaje;incidentally, from a sadly-still-practicing anthropologist pov, this notion (that a) "all the enemy is the same enemy"  and b) "the name for it is satan") is quite likely the oldest human idea ; much older than any kind of religion howsoever loosely defined, and i suspect OLDER THAN LANGUAGE.
1959064;1583499797;diana_coman;ahaha, that's the list of "we didn't push, they just jumped"?
1959065;1583499837;mp_en_viaje;it likely occupies a space in time in between the appearance of laughter as a group-generating social behaviour and the apparition of [http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/][the voices].
1959066;1583499929;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, the armin hemel buhbye at the end is qyite lulzy ; otherwise there's loads of more or less comedic stuff on that site. https://fsfellowship.eu/gnu-censors-the-united-nations-report-cybertorture-rms/
1959067;1583499964;diana_coman;o.O cybertorture
1959068;1583499967;mp_en_viaje;beings an engineer advocacy is always such a specify kind of ambiguous lulz... like slapstick with mongoloids.
1959069;1583499990;mp_en_viaje;funnier than the genuine article ; but also squickier proportionally.
1959070;1583500068;mp_en_viaje;http://archive.is/7LwE5 << not that the other side is any better. imagine, all the "socially well adjusted" morons who can't add managed to re-do the same trite nonsense 50000 times, NOT ONE thinking to mention... i dunno, any of the self-obvious points, from "it depends on what is is" and onwards.
1959071;1583500215;diana_coman;the points were not the...point!
1959072;1583500299;mp_en_viaje;basically, the problem of the denied middle is not merely "there's no such thing as middle class any longer possible -- either get very rich or be very poor" ; but also "there's no such thing as common sense remaining, either become moron type 1 or else moron type W".
1959073;1583500350;mp_en_viaje;the odd end result of the porn revolution was the... sexualization of everything, including capital and reason. you're now welcome to find the "average" wealth or "average" thought, even "average" taste -- much like you're welcome to find the average man-woman
1959074;1583504436;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/au-rebours/ << Trilema -- Au rebours
1959075;1583507916;billymg;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958982 << that was my understanding, i meant home base in cr
1959076;1583507917;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 04:08:24 mp_en_viaje: billymg, http://trilema.com/2020/our-democracy-or-rather-mostly-theirs/#comment-147687 << you know, i actually live in costa rica, i ain't going anywhere. what http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958805 means is that i'll be in costa rica till late may, and then from june onwards ; it's true i've lived 11 months in 33 or some shit euro towns, but that was a brief interruption as these things go -- be
1959077;1583507965;billymg;anytime works for me
1959078;1583509784;hanbot_abroad;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958988 << /me says a prayer for people with impudent cats and/or fat spiders.
1959079;1583509785;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 05:13:18 mp_en_viaje: you do q-qw-q-w-q or w/e you set it to, that's IT, prepare the bootable isos.
1959080;1583511245;mp_en_viaje;hanbot_abroad, well, user can set it to anything
1959081;1583517910;jfw;Or small children... if there's a button, it will be pushed
1959082;1583517944;*;jfw is known for "I wonder how you'd do a fork bomb in Python..." on a highschool server
1959083;1583518165;jfw;re cats, there was that time when an out-of-print proprietary unix install CD, irreplaceable artifact, was destroyed. Engineers had left it on a table, y'know, in the server room, near the screwdrivers and such. Not the ideal of orderliness, sure, but not the worst either. What engineers forgot was that CEO liked to bring cats to the office (to better acclimate them to people and travel).
1959084;1583518369;jfw;mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-05#1958950 - still worked, though that was on a musl gawk, perhaps it's special in a sufficiently different way. I don't have a drepper box around with that much disk atm. I'll believe it once blew up in some environment though.
1959085;1583518369;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-05 15:34:05 mp_en_viaje: jfw, try on say 64gb
1959086;1583518492;jfw;bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958964 - with a manifest, multiple leaves would happen when there are different branches building on a common ancestor and not reground into linearity, no?
1959087;1583518492;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 03:55:25 bvt: diana_coman: i have a question about leafs command: can you explain how you use it? i gave it some thought, and honestly i fail to see how it is useful: after adding the manifest which linearizes the vpatches, "leafs" reports only one leaf, without showing the split vtree branches before it.
1959088;1583518650;jfw;and if, say, every gtk prog is done by building on the gtk tree (not finding the ref but I recall MP explaining it to me thus), this could be a pretty common situation
1959089;1583518925;jfw;mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958985 - so a "shred" command not good enough then? Ignoring the issue that drives have brains of their own these days, is there value in an emergency self-destruct button that depends on a substantial duration of continued external power supply?
1959090;1583518926;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 05:11:03 mp_en_viaje: jfw, incidentally, thinking about it -- the one (and, for that matter, only) item that actually needs first class, os support is user-initiated, thorough, complete and reliable storage media destruction.
1959091;1583521680;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959017 - if you mean the branches from before the manifest was introduced in that specific tree, it's not that much "with a manifest" really; but in any case, regardless of how many leaves there are, they are still obvious enough in a tree text dump so that I don't think it's needed separately as such.
1959092;1583521681;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 14:31:55 jfw: bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958964 - with a manifest, multiple leaves would happen when there are different branches building on a common ancestor and not reground into linearity, no?
1959093;1583522102;diana_coman;and sure, one can still branch (effectively on the manifest file), but again, I don't see the situation where the leaves are not obvious even in a huge tree.
1959094;1583532625;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959012 << it's a matter of principle rather than anything ; i think it's poor practice to argue against principles on the basis of expediency. how useful the item is in practice is a fine discussion to be had, sure ; but can only be had on the actually sound basis of having the item in the first place.
1959095;1583532625;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 14:22:14 jfw: Or small children... if there's a button, it will be pushed
1959096;1583532714;mp_en_viaje;in any case i'm not proceeding from an utilitarian perspective, "this should exist because the user would benefit". the logic informing the concept is rather existential, "for such a thing as an operating system to meaningfully exist, the self-destruct must be in the operator's hands at all times"
1959097;1583532792;mp_en_viaje;then from that node we can proceed to a "well, how's this to be implemented ? should there eg be a wipeage button or not worth bothering with". i think it's worth bothering with for the statement it makes, for everyone, users and producers alike ; even if it's neither useful nor used. lots of things are neither used nor used, like say the us supreme court.
1959098;1583532894;mp_en_viaje;they still exist for the same exact existential reasoning, which is very much [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-06-30#1493384][the only way] to have meaningful totalitarian systems in the first place.
1959099;1583532894;ossabot;Logged on 2016-06-30 11:33:02 a111: Logged on 2015-01-30 05:51 mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.
1959100;1583532948;mp_en_viaje;i think giving away a monopoly to existential thought away to the usg and limiting self to the merely municipal "utilitarian" perspective is not much better, nor in fact substantially different from giving them a monopoly on coinage. which i take we're not willing to give.
1959101;1583533156;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959015 << i think gawk doesn't actually have this problem. i tend not to use it because of all the networking bs.
1959102;1583533156;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 14:29:53 jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-05#1958950 - still worked, though that was on a musl gawk, perhaps it's special in a sufficiently different way. I don't have a drepper box around with that much disk atm. I'll believe it once blew up in some environment though.
1959103;1583534482;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959020 << a shred command is a command, ie, a user space program. a kernel call is a kernel call. i don't care how it is exposed ; i deeply care the kernel isn't ~built around it~.
1959104;1583534482;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 14:39:09 jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958985 - so a "shred" command not good enough then? Ignoring the issue that drives have brains of their own these days, is there value in an emergency self-destruct button that depends on a substantial duration of continued external power supply?
1959105;1583534551;mp_en_viaje;in which same vein, "user password" in the shape of FS symmetrically encrypted such that withoyut password you can read any other OTP out of it that you wish, and so on.
1959106;1583537951;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/ircgs-hossein-salami-publicly-states-possibility-of-cornonavirus-being-us-bioweapon-attack-as-much-of-irans-government-afflicted/ << Qntra -- IRCG's Hossein Salami Publicly States Possibility of Cornonavirus Being US Bioweapon Attack As Much Of Iran's Government Afflicted
1959107;1583546665;feedbot;http://billymg.com/2020/03/mp-wp-roadmap-proposal/ << billymg -- MP-WP Roadmap Proposal
1959108;1583546835;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, what'a a cornonavirus ?
1959109;1583546924;BingoBoingo;mp_en_viaje: ty, fxd
1959110;1583546924;mp_en_viaje;and what sense does this make, the us is so way the fuck behind in biotech it could just as well be eritreea, but it nevertheless infected the heartland of chinese manufacture, notwithstanding that the chines aren't quite as backward nor is that place so easily accessible [as others would have been] just to get to some utterly obscure and very deeply isolated community of predictably self-selected geriatrics ?
1959111;1583546953;mp_en_viaje;this is like one of those stories where the cuck raped the squirrel.
1959112;1583547081;mp_en_viaje;the iranis don't wanna be [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/us/coronavirus-nursing-home-relatives.html][the most lulzily vulnerable group] to such things, how about they a) start sucking cock thrice a day and b) get some people under 50 involved in their lemon party.
1959113;1583548580;BingoBoingo;Well, It's the Iranian supposing it. Very well could have been Eritrea, Kenya, Israel, or the pangolins. I weighted the Iranian saying this as worthwhile on their January humiliation of Trump, Pompeo, and the US military. Maybe they unload some elderly and hang the US with this. Yes hitting the Italian and Iranian geriatric states is incredibly lulzy, but I suspect there's a deeper bench behind Iran's geriatrics than the US raised. The
1959114;1583548580;BingoBoingo;generals might take charge for a "state of emergency" in Iran, tremendous tempting a US regime change fail.
1959115;1583548593;BingoBoingo;But... the case against the US doing this are their tech is behind and the US is an incredibly geriatricentric mess.
1959116;1583548677;BingoBoingo;The audition for 2020's Hillary is down to Mr. Sandals, Biden, and that Tulsi chick the US media refused to talk about all campaign.
1959117;1583548877;BingoBoingo;Down here in Uruguay, Dengue is the more immediate threat. Still, the new government that swore in on Sunday already started sweeping up pichis and moving them into shelters.
1959118;1583548945;BingoBoingo;Or "shelters"
1959119;1583552554;mp_en_viaje;prolly gonna be sandalwood
1959120;1583575884;mp_en_viaje;dude;s born before the fucking war, what a fucking joke.
1959121;1583575957;mp_en_viaje;what is even the point of having some naturally retarded octogenarian president ? oh, wait, right, right, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-08#1956709
1959122;1583575957;ossabot;Logged on 2020-01-08 11:19:47 BingoBoingo: Well, impeachmet is still "President can't overrule bureaucracy on Foreign Policy" coup attempt
1959123;1583576107;mp_en_viaje;"Sanders castigated the pro-development incumbent as an ally of prominent shopping center developer Antonio Pomerleau, while Paquette warned of ruin for Burlington if Sanders were elected. The Sanders campaign was bolstered by a wave of optimistic volunteers as well as by a series of endorsements from university professors, social welfare agencies, and the police union. The final result came as a shock to the local political establishmen
1959124;1583576107;mp_en_viaje;t when Sanders won by just ten votes" << ten years later, burlington, virginia was indeed a ruin, and the moron in question started offering his services on a countrywide basis.
1959125;1583576258;mp_en_viaje;s/virginia/vermont/
1959126;1583576327;mp_en_viaje;proof : In 2007, the city was named one of the top four "places to watch" in the United States by the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP). The ratings were based on what was perceived as ideal qualities for older residents. Criteria included the factors that make a community livable: new urbanism, smart growth, mixed-use development, and easy-living standards (also known as the place being a ruin so decrepit, not even the nigg
1959127;1583576327;mp_en_viaje;ers are interested in the carcass).
1959128;1583576461;mp_en_viaje;ACS, 2014 : median household income $37,078, per capita income for the city was $25,589, 16.9% of families and 30.7% of the population below the poverty line. needless to say this wasn't the case in the 70s.
1959129;1583576673;mp_en_viaje;"In 1981, he campaigned against the unpopular plans by Burlington developer Tony Pomerleau to convert the then-industrial waterfront property owned by the Central Vermont Railway into expensive condominiums, hotels, and offices. He ran under the slogan "Burlington is not for sale" and successfully supported a plan that redeveloped the waterfront area into a mixed-use district featuring housing, parks, and public spaces."
1959130;1583576674;mp_en_viaje;Such successful ratholes the socialists built, that per same ACS 2014, median value of single-family home = $131k, possibly last place on continental us where such wonder exists. only 5k of them, too, but if nobody wants...
1959131;1583576838;mp_en_viaje;but enough of the sandals.
1959132;1583577916;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958782 << aaand in other lulz, this still not deeded.
1959133;1583577916;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-02 21:01:19 BingoBoingo: Fed it into deedbot before, but it seems deedbot deeding from chan may be requiring some manual intervention on trinque's side.
1959134;1583577946;mp_en_viaje;aite,  this is by now turning into way too much of a joke.
1959135;1583579054;mp_en_viaje;jfw, my intention is to use https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/address/1334rdsG6UuzEXUep6wU3kj87U2U8FPA4M/ through your http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/bitcoin-transactions-and-their-signing-1/?b=nears&e=completion#select to pay off http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958780 an' http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958773 ; do you want to schedule a time this coming week to work together on it, make the p
1959136;1583579054;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-02 20:59:05 BingoBoingo: !!deed http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HT44
1959137;1583579055;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-02 17:35:02 mod6: mp_en_viaje: Hey there, Sir.  Now that you're back to CR (glad you had a good trip), plz to process mpex withdrawls when you have an extra few minutes.  Thanks in advance.
1959138;1583579055;mp_en_viaje;rocess a sort of useful publicity-manual thing for you ?
1959139;1583579108;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, ima be playing with sluts in the water this weekend ; but come say tuesday, we sit down and finally complete that project ?
1959140;1583588390;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/thou-lector-or-the-manifest-of-modernity/ << Trilema -- Thou lector (or, the Manifest of Modernity),
1959141;1583602619;mp_en_viaje;lol, "of sluts and slaves and scandalous sexual predations"
1959142;1583602642;mp_en_viaje;yes, there is more : it drives assonances in the readership lol.
1959143;1583602659;mp_en_viaje;isn't that a great word ? assonance, an ass not even once!
1959144;1583602779;mp_en_viaje;this then explains the pageful of pingbacks
1959145;1583604766;lobbes;http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959069 << Tuesday sounds good to me (and enjoy!)
1959146;1583604766;ericbot;Logged on 2020-03-07 11:12:40 mp_en_viaje: lobbes, ima be playing with sluts in the water this weekend ; but come say tuesday, we sit down and finally complete that project ?
1959147;1583604781;mp_en_viaje;cool
1959148;1583608017;diana_coman;aww, jfw missed a 5th s in there with that predations.
1959149;1583608642;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959062 - I'm looking forward to this time next year when ~everyone has forgotten him and he's no longer brought up ~everytime I answer the question of where I'm from. can go back to mountains, marble, maple syrup and ben & jerry's.
1959150;1583608642;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 06:44:26 mp_en_viaje: but enough of the sandals.
1959151;1583610452;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, no, it's final
1959152;1583610456;mp_en_viaje;s- s- -s
1959153;1583610555;diana_coman;eh, unbalanced!
1959154;1583611457;dorion;mp_en_viaje a local financial advisor asked me about otc. says he's done some 3 figure btc deals for clients through regulated entities in singapore and switzerland and said he prefers to stay within fiat regulation.
1959155;1583611471;dorion;I'm pretty inexperienced on the bank based side of otc and the couple otc desks I've talked to don't seem so much different than the website exchanges, e.g. use phone apps and/or gmail to facilitate the deals, aren't using gpg or the wot, etc.
1959156;1583611483;dorion;do you have a recommendation for how I could counter this fiat mindedness when talking with those adapted to the fiat regulation ?
1959157;1583611532;mp_en_viaje;not without knowing what the regulations are or in general like that ?
1959158;1583611561;mp_en_viaje;i mean, there's an actual otc market, i traded on it, so have most people, it's still regulated as much as any market,
1959159;1583611569;mp_en_viaje;i suspect some term confusion might be at work here.
1959160;1583611631;mp_en_viaje;https://markets.cboe.com/europe/equities/market_statistics/otc_reporting/?mkt=trf << here's i suppose a primer. otc originally means "over the counter", it;'s a term of art in finance.
1959161;1583611657;mp_en_viaje;it was (mosty, ineptly) co-opted by the early bitcoin crowd to denote a sort of non-repudiable, no-third-party deal
1959162;1583611678;mp_en_viaje;but this isn't what most anyone using the term will expect it to mean, especially if they own a dog, let alone a car or a secretary or anything
1959163;1583611782;dorion;I inferred that he wants to deal with entities with a license for a securities regulator.
1959164;1583611796;mp_en_viaje;from* ?
1959165;1583611814;dorion;yes, from*
1959166;1583611820;mp_en_viaje;so how do you enter into it ?
1959167;1583611996;mp_en_viaje;i mean, the one informative analogy here is i suppose an insured plumber, or even better a union shop. if you're uninsured and want to do plumbing for some guy who needs plumbing done, either he drops the "i want an insured plumber" or you go get insured. same with a union shop : if you wanna work there, either you bust the union or else join the union.
1959168;1583612087;dorion;I don't right now because I don't have any license. I could put effort into making relationship with licensed operations, but thought I'd ask you since the minimal exposure I have to those smelled more like incomptence.
1959169;1583612120;mp_en_viaje;so basically your idea is "talk him out of seeking '''regulated''' trades" ?
1959170;1583612160;dorion;that was my instinct.
1959171;1583612220;mp_en_viaje;this is not going to fly, because it's not his money. he's approximately in the position of the hooker leaning on a parked mercedes, he doesn't get to say anything about where it goes. the northface / sketchers went on the cc, like the purchases of every other employee.
1959172;1583612251;mp_en_viaje;he doesn't get to "disengage hr" or "work from home" ; and if he tries, well, the leverage goes away. which being the whole point of his existence, is not negotiable.
1959173;1583612368;mp_en_viaje;moreover kinda the point of the whole system, you can't talk to the owners becayse "nobody knows who they are" because they "got together" and gave all their money up to  a state "company" to "manage it" for them, which it does deliberately in this specific manner. you might as well ask the call center costa rican / indian / whatever to connect you to the company president's daughter's private cellphone.
1959174;1583612473;mp_en_viaje;exactly like the point with "informative radio progeramming" or w/e i was discussing with whaack on his blog : you can ask whatever, but in the end you're still talking to the call center. "and when you get there, you'll still be in a pontiac", as lefty put it. see ?
1959175;1583612540;dorion;yeah, good to have it spelled out, thanks.
1959176;1583612549;mp_en_viaje;np
1959177;1583615200;mp_en_viaje;actually come to think of it, the guy's daughter, epstein's 17yo whore, henry ford's wife etc are way the fuck a better in than the "financial advisor".
1959178;1583615382;mp_en_viaje;god knows you've a much better shot not to mention shorter trip to me by [http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/?b=aspirated&e=girls#select][talking to hannah], than by trying to talk to whatever broker / expert / etc that [http://trilema.com/2019/digging-through-archives-yields-lulz-shall-we-call-it/?b=Lehman&e=Q2%202008#select][bought me lehman].
1959179;1583615413;mp_en_viaje;i do propose this is a universally valid truth ; though i do not expect it's necessarily actionable. plenty of people care much more than i do.
1959180;1583617341;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959027 - gotcha - in principle at least!
1959181;1583617341;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 18:28:59 mp_en_viaje: in any case i'm not proceeding from an utilitarian perspective, "this should exist because the user would benefit". the logic informing the concept is rather existential, "for such a thing as an operating system to meaningfully exist, the self-destruct must be in the operator's hands at all times"
1959182;1583617841;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959036 - hmm, I thought Shannon proved you can't have that without the pad having at least as many bits as the message. If there's more possible FS states than passwords, then I can find one that can't be pulled out by any key - reminds me of Cantor's diagonalization
1959183;1583617841;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 18:59:35 mp_en_viaje: in which same vein, "user password" in the shape of FS symmetrically encrypted such that withoyut password you can read any other OTP out of it that you wish, and so on.
1959184;1583617991;mp_en_viaje;jfw, sure, in the absolute sense it is true.
1959185;1583618072;mp_en_viaje;now consider your job is to "forensic analyze" a 2 TB file which was produced by taking the contents of a luzer hdd and xor'ing it with a PRNG working on the premise of hash ( hash (..... hash ( password)
1959186;1583618124;mp_en_viaje;sure, ~in theory~ you can do the job. in practice it'll be done just as soon as alf makes a business work.
1959187;1583618244;jfw;I see.
1959188;1583618273;mp_en_viaje;after all, [http://trilema.com/2012/law-enforcement-never-fails-to-unintentionally-entertain/][excel] has no plug-in for it.
1959189;1583618397;jfw;lolz. I'm sure some top codebreakers are working on that.
1959190;1583618606;*;mp_en_viaje feels the need to point out that the exact scheme described is ~merely intended as an example of the principle~, not proposed to be actually used. since idiots are reading.
1959191;1583618649;jfw;I got that re the hash(hash( at least.
1959192;1583618703;mp_en_viaje;ah, wasn't talking about you. but yeah
1959193;1583618796;jfw;mp_en_viaje: how do you define [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959029][totalitarian systems]? (before I even try to add on the 'meaningful' part)
1959194;1583618796;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-06 18:31:58 mp_en_viaje: they still exist for the same exact existential reasoning, which is very much [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-06-30#1493384][the only way] to have meaningful totalitarian systems in the first place.
1959195;1583618958;mp_en_viaje;jfw, a system is the cognitive equivalent of an algebra : a srt of elements and the operations defined on them. the problem of systems is the adequacy between themselves and reality.
1959196;1583618986;mp_en_viaje;to be totalitarian a system makes two explicit promises : that no objects existing can be found that don't map on objects included ; and that no valid questions can be formulated on those objects that the system fails to answer.
1959197;1583619231;mp_en_viaje;i suppose something like "complete" would be more intuitively appealing ; but a complete (or realised) system is one that merely satisfies the first criterion. things like the linnaeus classification have been complete since their introduction, for instance.
1959198;1583619264;jfw;quite different from the googapedia definition indeed. would it be accurate to say then that science is a process of attempting to formulate a totalitarian system?
1959199;1583619294;mp_en_viaje;no, science is definitionally and deliberately incomplete, it refuses for instance ethics questions.
1959200;1583619324;mp_en_viaje;there's no properly speaking scientific reason to do or not do anything, specifically because science is not totalitarian.
1959201;1583619348;mp_en_viaje;(and the dear love of the pantsuit for non-totalitarian comes exactly from this -- it comes with a guarantee to not bruise his definitional laziness.)
1959202;1583619418;mp_en_viaje;this is a weakass approach, however. the problem with totalitarian systems isn't that they exist ; but that they're made by (and for) "vegetarian teetotalitarians", to quote ray campbell since he was on trilema recently. ie idiots.
1959203;1583619447;mp_en_viaje;much like the problem of medicine for 1-2000 years wasn't that it was practiced at all ; but that it was practiced by barbers. hence the hippocratic oath,
1959204;1583619670;jfw;thanks, that's a good start to chew on.
1959205;1583619679;mp_en_viaje;o look, the internets don't know about it.
1959206;1583619857;mp_en_viaje;[http://trilema.com/2020/thou-lector-or-the-manifest-of-modernity/#footnote_3_91419][this guy] (who was in spain, and who was in many other early soups back when all these players were still kids or unheard of) said it about hitler something like good gracious, he won't do, he's a vegetarian teetotalitarian. chesterton and the crowd picked it up.
1959207;1583619942;mp_en_viaje;and re classification and completeness : linneus' system is always complete, as per the usual stoic argument re death : just before a "new species is found" it is complete because well... and just after a new species is found, it is STILL just as complete, because by the very description as is required to show the new species it also necessarily completes itself.
1959208;1583620165;jfw;ha! not familiar with the stoic argument, would it be something like "once you're dead you no longer have the problem of coming death"?
1959209;1583620369;jfw;well, I suppose I should rather ask who to read there than just guessing.
1959210;1583620435;mp_en_viaje;for as long as you live, your death does not exist, and therefore is no concern of yours; once your death exists or whatever actualizes itself there's necessarily nobody any longer there to fret about it.
1959211;1583620533;mp_en_viaje;anyway, the problem with the textbook go-to examples of totalitarian systems, namely the various attempts at socialism in the 20th century, is that they're very weak examples of totalitarian systems and comparatively much stronger examples of closed systems. that's their salient feature, their closedness, universally premature, and by a rather mengele hand.
1959212;1583620570;mp_en_viaje;much better examples would be dadaism/absurdism/situationism or say existentialism if you're aware of those.
1959213;1583620619;jfw;somewhat aware, seen some of their 'artistic' products at least
1959214;1583620759;jfw;Moving on though: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959066 - I'm honored; was spinning a bit on "but what if it fucks up and zaps more coin than I've ever laid hands on??" but yeah, can't wait for another life, it's about time
1959215;1583620759;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 07:21:22 mp_en_viaje: jfw, my intention is to use https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/address/1334rdsG6UuzEXUep6wU3kj87U2U8FPA4M/ through your http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/bitcoin-transactions-and-their-signing-1/?b=nears&e=completion#select to pay off http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958780 an' http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958773 ; do you want to schedule a time this coming week to work to
1959216;1583620805;jfw;how's 15:00 UTC / 10am local on Thursday?
1959217;1583620840;jfw;a whoops, CR on UTC-6, so that'd be my local.
1959218;1583620946;jfw;Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install?
1959219;1583621370;mp_en_viaje;sure.
1959220;1583621620;jfw;mp_en_viaje: a few other questions come up as I prepare to genesis. 1: tabs vs spaces - my Scheme code is all spaces and I don't know how to reasonably do it otherwise; lisp has established indenting conventions that tend to line things up nicely but require 1-column granularity. Somehow, setting the tabstop to 1 doesn't seem like any kind of solution (and still not sure I even grasp the problem).
1959221;1583621620;jfw;So the question is... I dunno, 'wut do?' Or, can we leave this one for now?
1959222;1583621658;mp_en_viaje;i dunno that it has to be nailed ad hoc here. there were preliminary discussions years ago that didn't resolve and haven't been revisited
1959223;1583621700;jfw;2. I forget if I mentioned it in my spec but my code shuffles the order of transaction outputs, for obfuscation or general "why not". Is this reasoanble / acceptable?
1959224;1583621745;mp_en_viaje;but anyway, the problem never was whether single-character-x or single-character-y is to be your indentation scheme. the problem was when a unit of indentation is made up of n characters, such that 1st tabulation is implemented as three space characters, and 2nd as six.
1959225;1583621775;mp_en_viaje;jfw, i don't imagine it makes any difference, why would it ?
1959226;1583621974;jfw;3. I had planned to make a single genesis of both online (python) and offline (Scheme) parts, as it seemed sensible to have it all in one place even if the intent is to use separately, but dorion brought up whether it'd be better to have two trees. I can't quite see that having any advantages, but how about you?
1959227;1583621978;jfw;fin.
1959228;1583622092;mp_en_viaje;i dunno that i'd ever want to press both at the same time ; i also don't see that they have to have separate genesises necessarily. you can press one r the other by selecting the proper branch neh ?
1959229;1583622203;jfw;hm, so the genesis would just be a placeholder manifest basically?
1959230;1583622221;mp_en_viaje;i have nfi, it's your code, it's your strategy. do you have shared parts ?
1959231;1583622263;jfw;would work. Another thing coming to mind is if the two parts ended up rewritten to the same language, they could share some common details like base58. - as you say
1959232;1583622315;mp_en_viaje;yes well, i dunno how much of this "if in the future" is useful in context. i mean, maybe the aliens invade, gouge the eyes of anyone who makes filenames under 6 characters long.
1959233;1583622376;mp_en_viaje;i have nfi why exactly your offline thing is in scheme, as opposed to something more likely to be found on an offline system (which, definitionally, ain't gonna be importing software in its lifetime).
1959234;1583622616;mp_en_viaje;hhttp://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959124 << and to answer the meaningful part : consider the usg's "obscenity standard". it is perfectly an' epitomatically meaningless, i care naught that a buncha idle farmhands who can't talk for all the shit in their mouth "all agree". this inexpressible agreement is the definition of meaninglessness.
1959235;1583622616;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 18:23:47 jfw: mp_en_viaje: how do you define [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959029][totalitarian systems]? (before I even try to add on the 'meaningful' part)
1959236;1583622696;jfw;hm, I wonder how much isn't clear then. I wrote a Scheme interpreter, which is part of what I need to get published. This in turn requires only gcc.
1959237;1583622757;mp_en_viaje;ah ah. i momentarily forgot about that part.
1959238;1583622781;jfw;What's an offline machine likely to have? gnat? python? And how to install the wallet at all if no new software?
1959239;1583622789;jfw;a ok.
1959240;1583622828;mp_en_viaje;jfw, i wasn't talking about the instant case necessarily ; but in general. i expect most [http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/][2013]-ish vintage itemsd have neither gnat nor python.
1959241;1583622868;jfw;right. well me scheme is a good bit smaller than either and will bear my signature.
1959242;1583622931;mp_en_viaje;anyways, ima go for a joyride, bbl.
1959243;1583622939;jfw;enjoy!
1959244;1583624246;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/lebanons-diab-announces-default-on-eurobond-debt/ << Qntra -- Lebanon's Diab Announces Default On Eurobond Debt
1959245;1583624665;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959155 - I don't follow this; a \t\t coming out as three spaces followed by six??
1959246;1583624666;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 19:12:56 mp_en_viaje: but anyway, the problem never was whether single-character-x or single-character-y is to be your indentation scheme. the problem was when a unit of indentation is made up of n characters, such that 1st tabulation is implemented as three space characters, and 2nd as six.
1959247;1583624893;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959156 - I first took this as "it's fine either way" but maybe there's a question there too. Supposing the change output always came first; then, someone who knows this gets more information about how much you're sending where from looking at the transaction than if it came in a random position. And this thought would seem to extend to any process
1959248;1583624893;jfw;that produced multiple outputs in a deterministic order.
1959249;1583624893;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 19:13:26 mp_en_viaje: jfw, i don't imagine it makes any difference, why would it ?
1959250;1583625531;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959073 - must be what that "Acest articol are apriori avantajul aliteralitatii alaturi" means
1959251;1583625531;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 13:54:32 mp_en_viaje: yes, there is more : it drives assonances in the readership lol.
1959252;1583629589;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959176 << some people do \s\s\s\s instead of \t.
1959253;1583629589;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 20:01:36 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959155 - I don't follow this; a \t\t coming out as three spaces followed by six??
1959254;1583629679;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959178 << "change" output is only defined by sheer coincidence, owing to the poor quality of the original client. there;s really no substantial difference between this so called change and the other outputs
1959255;1583629679;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 20:05:24 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959156 - I first took this as "it's fine either way" but maybe there's a question there too. Supposing the change output always came first; then, someone who knows this gets more information about how much you're sending where from looking at the transaction than if it came in a random position. And this thought would seem to extend to any process
1959256;1583629781;mp_en_viaje;incidentally, anyone read the flying inn ?
1959257;1583630140;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-620710.txt
1959258;1583631835;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-620713.txt
1959259;1583632430;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-620714.txt
1959260;1583635980;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-620716.txt
1959261;1583637484;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-620720.txt
1959262;1583638012;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-620721.txt
1959263;1583638424;trinque;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959065 << the joke is that the bitcoin rpc interface was literally throwing an error about terminal width when being called by the deeding service.
1959264;1583638424;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 07:02:54 mp_en_viaje: aite,  this is by now turning into way too much of a joke.
1959265;1583638468;trinque;what the everloving fuck it's doing caring about the state of a terminal is... who even would bother?
1959266;1583639110;trinque;possibly has to do with environment variables, investigating that.
1959267;1583639115;trinque;mp_en_viaje: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=q6MO
1959268;1583639858;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-620723.txt
1959269;1583674138;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2020/03/vsh-part-4-vtree-command/ << bvt's backtrace -- v.sh part 4: vtree command
1959270;1583677039;diana_coman;bvt: I forgot the "http" on the link to the .tar.gz in my latest comment on your site, would you mind fixing it for me? something's still weird with that eucrypt dir & v.sh so I've uploaded it, if anyone else wants to have a look at it.
1959271;1583695991;bvt;diana_coman: fixed link; ty for your test set, i have the fix (totally my bad), which I can upload today in a few hours (as a vpatch) if you still have a timeslot dedicated to v.sh tomorrow, or if you prefer it with a writeup, i will publish it until thursday.
1959272;1583696182;diana_coman;bvt: ah, glad to hear you found the trouble; whichever way you prefer really, I can move the slot to Friday, not an issue (and otherwise plenty to fill the Monday time, heh)
1959273;1583705849;bvt;diana_coman: http://bvt-trace.net/vpatches/vtools_ascii_fix.vpatch http://bvt-trace.net/vpatches/vtools_ascii_fix.vpatch.bvt.sig -- preliminary version, as "flow" command behavior is not useful with such vtree
1959274;1583706449;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/university-of-tennessee-knoxville-professor-to-prison-for-simultaneous-affiliations/ << Qntra -- University Of Tennessee Knoxville Professor To Prison For Simultaneous Affiliations
1959275;1583709767;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/oil-futures-crash-as-asian-markets-open-for-the-week-with-russia-and-opec-declining-to-agree-to-production-cuts/ << Qntra -- Oil Futures Crash As Asian Markets Open For The Week With Russia And OPEC Declining To Agree To Production Cuts
1959276;1583721748;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2020/qntra-a-plan-for-action/ << Bingology - The Blog of Aaron 'BingoBoingo' Rogier -- Qntra: A Plan For Action
1959277;1583738575;diana_coman;bvt: thanks!
1959278;1583738602;diana_coman;I'll get around to it later today and will let you know how it went.
1959279;1583750208;diana_coman;bvt: the antecedents/descendants commands behave as expected now indeed; the output from vtree though seems confusing as it is now because of the order in which children are apparently shown in between siblings so that one has to track and count spaces to be able to say what belongs where and what seems the child of the node immediately above turns out to be meant instead of child of node 2 lines above, not sure if you intended it like ...
1959280;1583750214;diana_coman;... that; for illustration, here's the [http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=H_PZ][output] from vtree and antecedents on eucrypt_oaep_fix_checks.vpatch (ran in the same test dir that can be had from [http://ossasepia.com/available_resources/eucrypt_patches.tar.gz][here]); antecedents gives the correct path genesis->ch6->ch7->ch9->ch10->oaep_fix_checks, but in vtree's output it's very hard to tell that ch10 is meant as child of ch9 rather than ...
1959281;1583750220;diana_coman;... of mpi_fix_copy_incr
1959282;1583750381;diana_coman;bvt: also, mind packing in next vpatch either removal of that Makefile or an update to it so it covers the new .gpr files? As it is now it's doing half a job and even that unclear why via makefile anyway - it would possibly make more sense to just have one .gpr file that allows you to build all with a single command but anyways.
1959283;1583752148;spyked;mp_en_viaje: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=XSaH
1959284;1583771405;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/circuit-breakers-and-blood-fiat-markets-open-with-losses/ << Qntra -- Circuit Breakers And Blood  Fiat Markets Open With Losses
1959285;1583772414;mp_en_viaje;jungle internets, tsk tsk
1959286;1583772791;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/2020/work-plan-for-m3-2020 << The Tar Pit -- Work plan for M3 2020
1959287;1583773217;mp_en_viaje;spyked, mbine
1959288;1583802526;jfw;mp_en_viaje: do you have a specific goal in mind for Thursday's wallet work? Do you also want to use the online part (I would imagine so but could technically be done without)? If so, note that it takes about a day to scan the present blockchain once fed the address(es) of interest, and requires a TRB node. If you wish to also send the rawtx using it, as would be most proper, we'll also need that
1959289;1583802526;jfw;polarbeard patch which I haven't yet got reground.
1959290;1583804405;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: In preparation of our next attempt at getting this project done, I've been going through my [http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954217][faff-fest] from last time.. and trying to figure out how we should pick back up
1959291;1583804405;ericbot;Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.
1959292;1583804409;lobbes;Then I realized that all that insanity was indeed because I was needlessly translating all kinds of strings across boundaries. I think the cleanest way to do this historical (May 28, 2016 to Now) log backfill is if I just provide you a text file in the same format as your "logstory.txt" you reference in [http://trilema.com/2019/introducing-the-logs/#comment-132439][this comment]
1959293;1583804415;lobbes;Since you already have that script working, I figure we may as well use it for this piece. All my log history is in a Postgres database though, so I need to "convert" my data at least once. Would you be able to send me a sample of that logstory.txt?
1959294;1583804422;lobbes;Also, are you good for tomorrow night or were you looking for doing this during the day? I'm slaving in the mines tomorrow but my night is clear. If need be I may be able to weasel a work-from-home day though, so I'll check back when I wake up tomorrow
1959295;1583804436;*;lobbes is off to sleep
1959296;1583805766;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/jury-hangs-after-prosecution-fails-to-make-cia-vault-7-case/ << Qntra -- Jury Hangs After Prosecution Fails To Make CIA "Vault 7" Case
1959297;1583825265;diana_coman;what a great #o log to start the day to! BingoBoingo draft looks good, I'd probably just add a comma after "to take shape"; and congrats to jfw on a straight-to-the-point quote!
1959298;1583825296;diana_coman;meh, wrong chan, sorry.
1959299;1583837928;bvt;diana_coman: i got it, the preview of how it will look like now: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=iEDJ
1959300;1583838237;diana_coman;bvt: that looks good indeed.
1959301;1583849860;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/cross-process-cache-sidechannel-found-in-recent-amd-processors/ << Qntra -- Cross Process Cache Sidechannel Found In Recent AMD Processors
1959302;1583849865;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/as-tmsr-os-project-gains-momentum-it-begins-leaving-legacy-project-devs-behind/ << Qntra -- As TMSR OS Project Gains Momentum It Begins Leaving Legacy Project Devs Behind
1959303;1583852950;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959219 << the functioning i'm looking for is that given some inputs (such as a privkey and txids) your program spits out a tx as is broadcast on the network.
1959304;1583852950;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-09 22:26:10 jfw: mp_en_viaje: do you have a specific goal in mind for Thursday's wallet work? Do you also want to use the online part (I would imagine so but could technically be done without)? If so, note that it takes about a day to scan the present blockchain once fed the address(es) of interest, and requires a TRB node. If you wish to also send the rawtx using it, as would be most proper, we'll also need that
1959305;1583852972;mp_en_viaje;if this isn't what it does, i suspect i might deeply misunderstand wtf it actually does.
1959306;1583853076;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959221 << well, do you have the item currently working somewhere ?
1959307;1583853076;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-09 22:57:28 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: In preparation of our next attempt at getting this project done, I've been going through my [http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954217][faff-fest] from last time.. and trying to figure out how we should pick back up
1959308;1583853076;ericbot;Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.
1959309;1583853143;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959225 << well, afternoon is what i had in mind, but yes, sure.
1959310;1583853143;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-09 22:57:45 lobbes: Also, are you good for tomorrow night or were you looking for doing this during the day? I'm slaving in the mines tomorrow but my night is clear. If need be I may be able to weasel a work-from-home day though, so I'll check back when I wake up tomorrow
1959311;1583853280;billymg;hola from sunny costa rica
1959312;1583853280;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-10#1020533 << isn't selecting for me either. the reason is that the text isn't "that, Well" but "that. <a href=blabla>Well". select dun work well with a href boundaries.
1959313;1583853280;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-10 dorion: BingoBoingo, http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014?b=that.%20Well..&amp;e=able#select isn't selecting for me.
1959314;1583853290;mp_en_viaje;billymg, same to you!
1959315;1583853300;billymg;mp_en_viaje: gracias!
1959316;1583853343;*;mp_en_viaje is checking out what's so great bout them o logs!
1959317;1583853368;billymg;i've got a temporary internet solution now as well (cellular LTE via Movistar) as we work on getting the real thing
1959318;1583853415;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020381 << if that.
1959319;1583853415;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 diana_coman: spyked: well, no boost dep is certainly a gain; and yeah, I'm sure that the earlier the version the less of a monster it is; that being said, I'm either really getting old or something but I can hardly see the point of >10k LOC for what can be done precisely as wanted through <1k lines of cmd line tools, huh.
1959320;1583853444;*;billymg will bbl - irl chores for the day
1959321;1583853445;mp_en_viaje;billymg, talk to hanbot, she found some pretty cool radio people that sold me a backup thing really fucking solid.
1959322;1583853483;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020383 << funny, because... BONES WORK THE SAME WAY. kekekekex
1959323;1583853483;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 diana_coman: ftr re clock, my scripts don't bother with "end of task" - there's no end to anything, only start of next thing whether that's break or whatever; since time is spent anyway, the start of a new thing is by definition the end of the previous.
1959324;1583853499;billymg;mp_en_viaje: yup, she put us in touch with american data which has been the best lead so far http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-03-03#1001505
1959325;1583853499;ossabot;(trilema-hanbot) 2020-03-03 billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-02-08#1001053 << update: my girl has been corresponding with american data through this contact and they are now putting together a proposal for a supposedly dedicated 10/10 connection at $150 a month (proposal will be to determine cost/timeline of install)
1959326;1583853509;mp_en_viaje;a cool.
1959327;1583853529;mp_en_viaje;dude that's cheap.
1959328;1583853571;billymg;yeah, compared to the ~$375 / mo for Kolbi's enterprise fiber offering it seemed like a good deal
1959329;1583853588;mp_en_viaje;they dug fiber where you are ?!
1959330;1583853605;billymg;they are willing to put together a proposal for doing so
1959331;1583853618;billymg;(i need to get on my lawyer here about filling out the RFP)
1959332;1583853650;billymg;so will be at my expense. whaack talked to one of their customer support agents who didn't really know what it would cost but thought roughly $2-5k for the laying of the cable
1959333;1583853692;billymg;i then followed up with one of their technicians who visited the property and he said it was doable and we just need to go through the RFP / proposal process
1959334;1583853751;mp_en_viaje;from experience the best way these things go is if a large-ish group of landowners around a geographically reasonable node point ask them for it. maybe see if your neighbours wanna join ?
1959335;1583853764;mp_en_viaje;in fact optic fiber infrastructure does help land value.
1959336;1583853805;billymg;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959266 << this is how i saw it as well
1959337;1583853805;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 12:40:11 mp_en_viaje: in fact optic fiber infrastructure does help land value.
1959338;1583853846;billymg;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959265 << that's a good idea, and gives me a chance to meet the neighbors
1959339;1583853846;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 12:39:58 mp_en_viaje: from experience the best way these things go is if a large-ish group of landowners around a geographically reasonable node point ask them for it. maybe see if your neighbours wanna join ?
1959340;1583853851;mp_en_viaje;so you got a perfect in, don't even need whaack 's proverbial gift basket. just go knocking on doors explain what you're tying to do, organize a fiber club
1959341;1583853947;billymg;sounds like a plan
1959342;1583853963;mp_en_viaje;internet is shockingly crappy in everman's costa rica ; especially after muh infinitybw euro interfaces.
1959343;1583853970;*;billymg wonders if it would be rude to present this ask to neighbors on first introduction..
1959344;1583853983;billymg;though it's almost more of an offer than an ask..
1959345;1583854000;mp_en_viaje;if you get it going, can defo be on your sale list. "none of those crappy 5kbps netlinks, we here have fiber. come do some work undisturbed while the sluts splash in the pool", sell to execs.
1959346;1583854021;mp_en_viaje;billymg, i don't get it, what are you asking ?
1959347;1583854054;billymg;their support / commitment to subscribe to fiber (the collecting signatures bit)
1959348;1583854105;mp_en_viaje;that can be follow-up. "hi, i got this property right next to yours, and we're thinking of pushing the x to draw optic fiber close. would this be something you'd like to get into ?"
1959349;1583854113;mp_en_viaje;you're doing them a fucking favour, wtf.
1959350;1583854124;billymg;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959276 << this for sure. almost lost business of a tour group that wanted to book all the units for two weeks in late march because no decent internet (ended up losing the business because zomg coronavirus instead)
1959351;1583854125;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 12:44:07 mp_en_viaje: if you get it going, can defo be on your sale list. "none of those crappy 5kbps netlinks, we here have fiber. come do some work undisturbed while the sluts splash in the pool", sell to execs.
1959352;1583854158;mp_en_viaje;"even if you don't personally use the internet, it's like having electricity. you can go a whole life without electricity too! but from experience, a) you won't once it's there ; and moreover b) if you ever sell, it sells for more."
1959353;1583854180;mp_en_viaje;find out what sorta troglodytes you livr with in any case, ie whether they'll shoot any roamning dogs for instance.
1959354;1583854216;mp_en_viaje;billymg, fucktards, how the fuck are they getting coronavirus in nicoya, from what, the cows ?
1959355;1583854258;billymg;this group was hilariously, offensively ustardian
1959356;1583854269;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020423 << let's not get silly, since when is approximate spelling a virtue!
1959357;1583854269;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 diana_coman: jfw: the minds that discard the message because of less than perfect spelling though might be better off enjoying their fence.
1959358;1583854276;billymg;their first request was, get this, empty the pool because we don't want the risk of the kids (college) drowning
1959359;1583854296;billymg;to which i said fuck off, and they then said, find just dun let em swim
1959360;1583854298;mp_en_viaje;is this an older female "running" things ?
1959361;1583854355;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020424 << i dunno how much you recall of the 90s, ie back when mailing lists was a thing ; but almost nobody will even read some agitated flailing of some dude who subbed to post it.
1959362;1583854355;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 dorion: jfw you subscribe to it first so you can then reply ? is that how it works ?
1959363;1583854377;billymg;probably, i'm interfacing through a nice and capable tico who's been organizing these groups of americans and doing business with this property / previous owner for years now
1959364;1583854383;mp_en_viaje;mailing lists are very primitive wot things.
1959365;1583854406;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: eh, read the whole, approx spelling is not a virtue, no; neither is a disqualifier esp online
1959366;1583854418;mp_en_viaje;billymg, ah. so build your backchannel with him. "wtf is this about, can you explain it to me ? i spend money to build pool so they have fun, they want it epty ?!"
1959367;1583854432;mp_en_viaje;have people explain things to do, it's a great tool.
1959368;1583854466;billymg;mp_en_viaje: not to mention, empty pool == break neck on fall
1959369;1583854470;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, i kinda think it is. typos aside, but anyways.
1959370;1583854470;billymg;it made no sense to me
1959371;1583854509;mp_en_viaje;billymg, if the concept is "drunk kid wanders in at night", which is what seems the least-dumb construction available, it's still indeed the case empty pool more dangerous.
1959372;1583854662;billymg;mp_en_viaje: yeah, the conversation with the tico was productive, he was also throwing up his hands in disbelief at their request. i coached him into telling them to walk after realizing they really have no other options (other hotels aren't gonna empty pools / don't have lifeguards on duty, and tour group dun have the budget themselves to hire the lifeguard)
1959373;1583854707;billymg;he said he's never heard of this before, in his years of organizing these visits. but it was some "new policy" to "eliminate risk"
1959374;1583854717;mp_en_viaje;so hacve them explain it.
1959375;1583854734;mp_en_viaje;dumb cows sitting on their cheesy taco all day long coming up with "standards"
1959376;1583854777;billymg;mp_en_viaje: yeah, we had them explain it. and it was just: need lifeguard on duty or else no swimming. didn't press them enough re: dangers of empty pool because by then they had backed down
1959377;1583854791;mp_en_viaje;aha
1959378;1583854817;mp_en_viaje;i wonder when they're gonna start pestering bars, "we want to come and spittle in a beerbotle for three hours, but you gotta have driver."
1959379;1583854829;mp_en_viaje;"bitch, you want ME to designate your driver for you ?" "yes, we're really awkward."
1959380;1583854849;mp_en_viaje;da fuck tour group dun have their own lifeguard.
1959381;1583854856;billymg;that's what i was telling the local: they are making demands without willing to pay. if they want lifeguard on duty they'll be at a luxury resort paying 5x
1959382;1583854862;billymg;without being*
1959383;1583854908;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020467 << apache probably.
1959384;1583854908;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 jfw: My plan is to start next week with creating a 'gypsy code signing' key then I suppose get the list together and into some kind of order.
1959385;1583855010;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020476 << this is quite how this is intended to work. havign a "use" and a "read" key perfectly sensible
1959386;1583855010;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 jfw: I think it's the right sort of bother: given all the code I ~have~ read or written it seems an important distinction as far as which category someone chooses to trust from me.
1959387;1583855145;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020491 << iirc it was unrelated, dudes were just squatting the place with their spaghetti-crapola.
1959388;1583855145;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 jfw: ah there was also Eucrypt, part of which was a liberation of gcrypt from Werner Koch & co. right?
1959389;1583855260;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020492 << two things. in the positive, the sort of non-improvements like "supporting unicode" ; discussion with such a moron recently in trilema. in the negative, actually adding useful things that the pantsuit do not add, for whatever reason ("other priorities", "hateful to protected groups", "illegal", whatever nonsense).
1959390;1583855260;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-09 BingoBoingo: jfw dorion: What does it mean that these things have been liberated? What have they been saved from?
1959391;1583855399;mp_en_viaje;they're liberated from having Brawndo poured on top "because it's what plants need", and they're also liberated from NOT having water poured on top, because "the secretary of energy" ahs "never seen no plants grow out of no toilet."
1959392;1583855693;*;mp_en_viaje is pondering this wonder. wtf are you idiots doing over there ? srsly tryina come up with all this shit on your own, who knows, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, then i go read it on qntra and what, maybe i agree, maybe i don't, in any case ~after the fact~, at which point as chance dictates, either i sever the link or not ?
1959393;1583855772;mp_en_viaje;pretty fucking weird.
1959394;1583856073;*;mp_en_viaje leaves off reading #ossasepia ; i guess in principle there's nothing all that wrong with it. 
1959395;1583856354;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, i guess you're stuck with a much larger chunk than originally contemplated, unexpectedly enough.
1959396;1583856800;mp_en_viaje;on the other hand, it doth offer quite the neat solution to the "wtf are you going to do with that lordship thing THIS time" conundrum.
1959397;1583856807;*;mp_en_viaje shall bbl.
1959398;1583857281;jfw;mp_en_viaje: does the idiot list include me this time? I could try to be more mindful of when a discussion should be moved or started here
1959399;1583857656;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959234 - this is approximately what it does; the delta is that a bit more than just txids is required.
1959400;1583857657;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 12:26:36 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959219 << the functioning i'm looking for is that given some inputs (such as a privkey and txids) your program spits out a tx as is broadcast on the network.
1959401;1583857972;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959326 - for a moment I thought this was re the graphics work, keks.
1959402;1583857972;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 13:23:21 mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i guess you're stuck with a much larger chunk than originally contemplated, unexpectedly enough.
1959403;1583858001;jfw;As best I could determine for my [http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/gales-bitcoin-wallet-spec-and-battle-plan/][spec], this is an unavoidable consequence of the design of bitcoin transactions. Specifically what's required: address (as an identifier for the private key from a set of multiple; if you just have one then of course this is trivial); txid, output index within that tx, and value,
1959404;1583858001;jfw;for each previous output being spent.
1959405;1583858022;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: to my mind there wasn't anything new/unknown/controversial in there really; (or I'd have moved it to #t earlier anyway).
1959406;1583858056;*;diana_coman will bbl too
1959407;1583858289;jfw;The function of the 'online' code I referenced is to index this information and get it in the required format; you could instead use block explorers or whatever you please to get the information and it's none of my business. Or I could provide it, since you gave the address.
1959408;1583858455;jfw;The consequences of its being incorrect are mostly that the tx won't validate - EXCEPT (I recently realized) for the value field, which could be used to subvert the fee and change computation.
1959409;1583858662;jfw;As for the private key, since as I understand you want to spend from an existing one imported from some other wallet implementation, I should note that it can be imported in hex or WIF format, however, as in TRB, "compressed" keys aren't presently distinguished. It's possible to use them through some code tweaks, though it's presently all one or all the other.
1959410;1583858693;jfw;mp_en_viaje: is that all clear?
1959411;1583858987;jfw;**The consequences if it were incorrect are mostly that the tx wouldn't validate ...
1959412;1583859457;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959292 - I don't recall for not having been there, but makes sense they operate with a wot.
1959413;1583859457;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 12:50:01 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-09#1020424 << i dunno how much you recall of the 90s, ie back when mailing lists was a thing ; but almost nobody will even read some agitated flailing of some dude who subbed to post it.
1959414;1583872532;dorion;hey trinque, minding the previous [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959323][point] and earlier [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958759][point] and [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958786][questions], why don't we set a time to discuss where you're at and what the next steps are ?
1959415;1583872532;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 13:12:20 mp_en_viaje: is pondering this wonder. wtf are you idiots doing over there ? srsly tryina come up with all this shit on your own, who knows, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, then i go read it on qntra and what, maybe i agree, maybe i don't, in any case ~after the fact~, at which point as chance dictates, either i sever the link or not ?
1959416;1583872532;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-02 09:13:50 mp_en_viaje: trinque, the problem with your proposal is that the article isn't yet loaded at that point.
1959417;1583872532;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-03 00:22:13 dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958692 - [http://trinque.org/2020/01/20/a-republican-os-part-3/#comment-155][you had said] the next would how V enters the picture. Is that still the plan ? did you expand and roll the spec you had in mind in there ?
1959418;1583877072;lobbes;http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959236 << I have the actual bot working, yes. However I do not any type of trustworthy process to backfill the historical logs. I mean, I *do* have my python mess from last time, but I'm proposing we forgo that mess this time
1959419;1583877073;ericbot;Logged on 2020-03-10 15:18:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959221 << well, do you have the item currently working somewhere ?
1959420;1583877073;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-09 22:57:28 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: In preparation of our next attempt at getting this project done, I've been going through my [http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954217][faff-fest] from last time.. and trying to figure out how we should pick back up
1959421;1583877074;ericbot;Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.
1959422;1583877081;lobbes;To lay it out, my convoluted process last time of getting you the data you needed was: 1) Pulling logs from my Postgres database to a flatfile 2) importing that into mp-wp's MySQL database 3) getting a mysql dump of *that* 4) altering said dump with e.g. [http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-12-02#1954034][sed escapes], etc. then finally 5) I give it to you
1959423;1583877081;ericbot;Logged on 2019-12-02 16:41:29 mircea_popescu: ima try putting the first few in and we see (i hope for eg you do the sed 's%"%\\"%g' | sed 's%*%\&ast;%g' escapings, yes ?)
1959424;1583877089;lobbes;Instead, I figure why don't I just cut out 2,3,4,5 and instead I just alter my 1) to pull logs from my Postgres database in the same format of your input into your backfill process (which has already been [http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-27-Mar-2016/][proven to function to spec])?
1959425;1583877101;lobbes;http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959239 << Okay. I'm about to run out for a quick errand but will be back in about an hour. I'll be free now for the rest of night afterwards
1959426;1583877102;ericbot;Logged on 2020-03-10 15:20:02 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959225 << well, afternoon is what i had in mind, but yes, sure.
1959427;1583877102;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-09 22:57:45 lobbes: Also, are you good for tomorrow night or were you looking for doing this during the day? I'm slaving in the mines tomorrow but my night is clear. If need be I may be able to weasel a work-from-home day though, so I'll check back when I wake up tomorrow
1959428;1583877131;lobbes;s/free now/free
1959429;1583885224;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959329 << mindful nothing. look, if it works work it, there's nothing wrong with that.
1959430;1583885224;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 13:38:48 jfw: mp_en_viaje: does the idiot list include me this time? I could try to be more mindful of when a discussion should be moved or started here
1959431;1583885314;mp_en_viaje;there ~is~ of course substantial cost involved in i dunno, keeping a capitalized company on the books while alf derps about re-doing the same mistakes on the chickenfeed he's found in his couch cushions. there's similarily a substantial cost involved in maintaining all these trilema herramientas
1959432;1583885344;mp_en_viaje;this is of course my problem ; you can do it elsewhere cheaper / better / whatever, i'm the last dood to get in the way of any such a thing.
1959433;1583885392;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959341 << really, there's no value in this prequel. we sit down thurs see.
1959434;1583885392;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 14:02:20 jfw: mp_en_viaje: is that all clear?
1959435;1583885484;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959336 << i dunno, all i saw was BingoBoingo continuing the tradition of derp whereby he's gonna ad-hoc some nonsense. at least he's moved on from doing it in gpgballs.
1959436;1583885484;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 13:51:09 diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: to my mind there wasn't anything new/unknown/controversial in there really; (or I'd have moved it to #t earlier anyway).
1959437;1583886182;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, so you want a sample of the logstory file ? lesee here
1959438;1583886466;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, yeah that'd be great. Ty!
1959439;1583886490;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, im digging through the stuff here, because i suspect there might;ve been more to it all than just that, so a sec
1959440;1583886553;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, so listen, you talking about this discussion http://trilema.com/2019/introducing-the-logs/#comment-132410 ?
1959441;1583887028;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, yeah that was the discussion. I think the script that ended up working for you was in [http://trilema.com/2019/introducing-the-logs/#comment-132439][this comment]
1959442;1583887062;mp_en_viaje;but the point is : the whole logstory thing was simply me wranglin gwith the xchat historical format most of the early logs were in.
1959443;1583887068;mp_en_viaje;there's entirely no point in reproducing that.
1959444;1583887143;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, ahh okay.
1959445;1583887177;mp_en_viaje;now, what you really want is a look at say log8.txt, which is what in the end was finally used,
1959446;1583887218;mp_en_viaje;no ?
1959447;1583887298;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, hm, I can't find a reference to a log8.txt in that discussion, but if that was what you used for your input file then yeah definitely I'd want to see that
1959448;1583887315;mp_en_viaje;http://trilema.com/2019/introducing-the-logs/#comment-132537 < reference
1959449;1583887350;mp_en_viaje;the ~problem~ is though that these are 1-logday-per-line humongo files. can you even meaningfully process it ?
1959450;1583887466;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, ah I see what you mean. Yeah I guess that may be a bit of a pain trying to produce something in that format. Hm
1959451;1583887497;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ << item's always been avaialble there, since nov. logs8.txt say
1959452;1583887580;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, ah ty
1959453;1583887623;mp_en_viaje;i for one'd have expected the structural definition in the comments'd be more useful than the actual dump file ; but in any case, there's more problems even higher up.
1959454;1583887667;mp_en_viaje;specifically, until we have the process such that the bot actually produces logs, reliably, for each day, it makes 0 sense imo to even start this discussion. because what, so we do it YEY AGAIN, and then there's yet another gap once we're done ?
1959455;1583887738;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, this is a point. You mean we ought to just get the bot up and producing logs first and worry about the history later?
1959456;1583887850;mp_en_viaje;omfg, the coffee in this country. idiot germans come in and buy all the best sorts anyone can be arsed to sell them ; then you go to germany and can't have a decent cup of coffee. i just can't set it down.
1959457;1583887869;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, it seems unavoidable, otherwise we'll just be doing this chasing gaps forver, like achilles.
1959458;1583887904;mp_en_viaje;what's the bot called, anyways ?
1959459;1583887907;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, agreed (btw if I ever do make it to CR real coffee will be one of the first things I try)
1959460;1583887911;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, pizdi
1959461;1583887917;mp_en_viaje;it's not in chan ?
1959462;1583887924;lobbes;I could bring it in now even, it just is logging to my test site
1959463;1583887934;mp_en_viaje;oh i see. so yeah, bring it in
1959464;1583887937;lobbes;k
1959465;1583888029;lobbes;!!up pizdi
1959466;1583888029;deedbot;pizdi voiced for 30 minutes.
1959467;1583888040;lobbes;command is '!y' for the time-being
1959468;1583888047;lobbes;!y version
1959469;1583888048;pizdi;lobbes: I am MP-WP bot version 598170.
1959470;1583888079;lobbes;currently logging to: http://test.ericbenevides.com/2020/03/forum-logs-for-10-mar-2020/
1959471;1583888088;mp_en_viaje;quite the number
1959472;1583888140;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, did you do a buncha testing on this then ? all sorta lines, changes in say topic, etc ?
1959473;1583888140;lobbes;I just incremented the old one from the stanlogger
1959474;1583888171;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: I don't think it'll record line changes. Though I honestly did not test if it would break it
1959475;1583888171;mp_en_viaje;xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
1959476;1583888180;lobbes;*record topic changes
1959477;1583888217;mp_en_viaje; 	----- 20:00 ----- << oh it's still doing that thing, iirc we wanted it out eventually.
1959478;1583888275;lobbes;ah shit, I must've missed that. Well easy enough to remove in any case
1959479;1583888304;mp_en_viaje;honestly, the stuff pizdi's dumping in the test blog is perfectly fine. why can't you just dump the missing logs into her ?
1959480;1583888391;lobbes;that's what I tried to do last time; ended up faffing about. I'm a little hesitant to try again but I guess I'll need to at some point
1959481;1583888428;*;mp_en_viaje re-reads the init of this convo to figure out wth the problem was
1959482;1583888453;lobbes;it seemed simple: instead of eating IRC lines live just eat lines from Postgres. But you know, looking back I used way too many middleman steps
1959483;1583888537;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959355 << but the format i use is as you can see, mysql insert statements, one line per day.
1959484;1583888537;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 19:08:58 lobbes: Instead, I figure why don't I just cut out 2,3,4,5 and instead I just alter my 1) to pull logs from my Postgres database in the same format of your input into your backfill process (which has already been [http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-27-Mar-2016/][proven to function to spec])?
1959485;1583888786;lobbes;yeah, I was misunderstanding your process there
1959486;1583888976;mp_en_viaje;now that said, i'm still thinking about how the fuck to get mp-wp working on two machines best.
1959487;1583889003;mp_en_viaje;technically there exists mysql "federated" tables ; but everyone seems to hate them. prolly for no reason.
1959488;1583889053;mp_en_viaje;on the other hand there exists the obvious "have logs category on trilema.net, have trilema.net use trilema.com for everything (including comment post say). which is about as derpy as it sounds.
1959489;1583889080;mp_en_viaje;there could be a sync script, but then how often does it run
1959490;1583889143;lobbes;hm, I am not familiar with federated tables myself. I'd need to look into them a bit.
1959491;1583889239;lobbes;as for the sync script, yeah that would be interesting. As for the frequency does mysql do triggers on database changes?
1959492;1583889282;mp_en_viaje;honestly i think what i'll go for will be : (using trilema.com for current trilema and trilema.net for pizdi's box), hve a mysql server run on both, have t.com update both rather than just its own, and have it read the day's logs at some point tomorrow. this way people can use t.net for any purpose except write a comment.
1959493;1583889516;lobbes;makes sense.
1959494;1583889987;mp_en_viaje;perhaps easier said than done ; but we see
1959495;1583890030;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: okay, sounds like a plan then. So, I guess for my part I'll go back and see what I can do about a sane history-backfill process.
1959496;1583890046;mp_en_viaje;yeh.
1959497;1583890227;lobbes;k. And I guess just let me know whenever / however you wanna try to get that t.com > t.net update process going. I'll try to find time where needed
1959498;1583890416;lobbes;http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959403 << as an aside for log posterity, I mis-stated this: the version number represents the block height at the time of the vpatch
1959499;1583890417;ericbot;Logged on 2020-03-11 01:03:20 lobbes: I just incremented the old one from the stanlogger
1959500;1583894446;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, get the history in, complete from http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-27-mar-2016 onwards first, then we sort the rest out.
1959501;1583895526;lobbes;mp_en_viaje, roger that
1959502;1583901105;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/arenal-2020/ << Trilema -- Arenal 2020
1959503;1583901869;trinque;dorion: yes, I haven't had time to complete the final post, but last I checked y'all were pretty opposed to using busybox-only for the userland.
1959504;1583901875;trinque;so where are we at with that?
1959505;1583901937;trinque;because the final post is little else than gathering the selected items into a source tree, wrapping them in a build process, and cutting a genesis.
1959506;1583902017;trinque;I'll point out again for the logs that my picking busybox wasn't just "whatever, it's small, and it's all there"
1959507;1583902036;trinque;it's that we can cleave shit out of busybox source permanently trivially by using the config flags.
1959508;1583902051;trinque;so it's not only the smallest candidate, but it can be miles smaller still
1959509;1583902069;*;trinque back tomorrow
1959510;1583941580;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959364 - alright, cool.
1959511;1583941581;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 21:27:21 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959341 << really, there's no value in this prequel. we sit down thurs see.
1959512;1583943310;jfw;trinque: I'm also tardy on jumping back into the OS fray, for one thing my wallet project has dragged out way longer than I naively expected, but I look forward to doing so shortly. But in hopes of advancing the discussion a bit: is there a particular merit to busybox-1.31.1 ? For all I know it's an entirely different thing from the older one I've been looking at and we'll need some common basis
1959513;1583943310;jfw;for what we're talking about.
1959514;1583943744;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/la-moglie-piu-bella/ << Trilema -- La moglie piu bella
1959515;1583943813;jfw;that's 1). 2) what do you mean by "busybox-only" - because far as I know you can't possibly mean exactly that, it doesn't have an mkfs or make for example, let alone a compiler. Do you mean, "system which selects components outside busybox only if busybox $version does not contain them"? I'll note that busybox is an amalgam of code from a variety of sources and, ahem, "Adjusted by so many folks,
1959516;1583943813;jfw;it's impossible to keep track" to quote its init.c. One thing I take from this is one's not likely to get a good sense of the code quality of a given part from a random sampling of the overall tree.
1959517;1583944062;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959434 - hm, in that conversation there were 4 points where it was noted Gales goes outside busybox : 1) MAKEDEV instead of busybox mdev , 2) jfw's genesis of pdksh vs busybox ash 3) jfw's 47 line init vs bb's and 4) daemontools instead of bb's runit.
1959518;1583944062;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-11 02:01:59 trinque: dorion: yes, I haven't had time to complete the final post, but last I checked y'all were pretty opposed to using busybox-only for the userland.
1959519;1583944073;dorion;1 was out of ignorance and it was [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trinque/2020-01-24#1000183][conceded] MAKEDEV can be dropped.
1959520;1583944074;ossabot;(trinque) 2020-01-24 jfw: trinque: I was ignorant of mdev, looks like just the thing!
1959521;1583944090;dorion;2 was out of poorly documented dissatisfaction with bb ash, yet he [http://trinque.org/2020/01/20/a-republican-os-part-3/#comment-151][said], "perhaps his pdksh can be of use."
1959522;1583944108;dorion;jfw can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he knew busybox includes [https://git.busybox.net/busybox/tree/runit?h=1_27_stable][runit]. since he was already used to using daemontools and daemontools is the predecessor to runit anyways he went with that.
1959523;1583944134;dorion;please correct me if I'm missing something, but how do you draw "pretty opposed" from the above ?
1959524;1583944402;jfw;I haven't actually tried mdev so I'm not quite at "makedev can be dropped" but I'm certainly open to it.
1959525;1583944544;jfw;If we're adding runit to the mix on the busybox side, then it becomes fair to compare their 800+ LoC init.c to my 30-line one.
1959526;1583944970;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959435 - that busybox will go a long way, but is only part of the puzzle. which compiler to use and how to support graphics for eulora are two examples of major open questions that are far from being answered at present.
1959527;1583944970;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-11 02:02:05 trinque: so where are we at with that?
1959528;1583946968;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959436 - this should be broken down into multiple articles and conversations. you're going to go through the process of genesising several components before we thoroughly discuss what's actually needed ?
1959529;1583946968;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-11 02:03:07 trinque: because the final post is little else than gathering the selected items into a source tree, wrapping them in a build process, and cutting a genesis.
1959530;1583947266;dorion;if you've made progress on the selecting and organizing into a source tree, why not be satisfied with publishing that and getting feedback ?
1959531;1583956498;mp_en_viaje;hanbot_abroad, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=uOBg
1959532;1583957449;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/le-cercle-rouge/ << Trilema -- Le Cercle Rouge
1959533;1583964181;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959436 - I've been working on a list of what's needed. [http://dorion-mode.com/enumerating-tmsr-os-goodness/][Here's] the very rough draft of what I have so far.
1959534;1583964181;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-11 02:03:07 trinque: because the final post is little else than gathering the selected items into a source tree, wrapping them in a build process, and cutting a genesis.
1959535;1583964240;dorion;^^ mp_en_viaje jfw bvt spyked diana_coman and any other parties interested in tmsr os ^^
1959536;1583971441;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/inconvenience-today-italy-shuts-down-non-essential-businesses-pandemic-declared-cme-closes-trading-floor-and-more-sfyl/ << Qntra -- Inconvenience Today: Italy Shuts Down "non-essential" Businesses, Pandemic Declared, CME Closes Trading Floor, And More SFYL
1959537;1583980770;trinque;dorion: so now we have something to talk about.
1959538;1583980794;trinque;if you want "builds crystalspace" to be the purpose towards which we're reaching, might as well install ubuntu.
1959539;1583980829;trinque;if you want "doesn't have batshit bashism" to be the measure of which shell to use, idem
1959540;1583980861;trinque;for the record, my measure is "self-hosts"
1959541;1583980876;trinque;it can be used to build and improve itself. the end.
1959542;1583981770;trinque;ok, so what rankles my ass about your goodness list is you have items at wildly different levels of the tree all flattened together like they're of the same importance and same level of the ontology.
1959543;1583981780;trinque;what's python even doing there?
1959544;1583981903;trinque;this is a wall of hubris, my friend, and sorta flies in the face of what I was trying to convey with the series.
1959545;1583982026;trinque;the "big dream" approach does not work, which is why I started simply, and proceeded outward.
1959546;1583982117;trinque;but anyway. I wasn't describing an item I wish I had. I was describing an item I'm building.
1959547;1583983189;trinque;I propose you delete that list, and you write another. In the new list, write down only the items that will get the machine to boot, and allow the user to edit and rebuild the OS.
1959548;1583985968;dorion;trinque thanks for the feedback.
1959549;1583985980;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959469 - can I assume you've read http://trilema.com/2019/the-tmsr-os-implicit-clients/ ? Eulora is right there.
1959550;1583985980;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-11 23:57:29 trinque: if you want "builds crystalspace" to be the purpose towards which we're reaching, might as well install ubuntu.
1959551;1583986010;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959471 - my measure is reaches the point of supporting the implicit clients within a reasonable time frame based on where the clients are presently.
1959552;1583986010;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-11 23:58:37 trinque: for the record, my measure is "self-hosts"
1959553;1583986019;dorion;from there, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-11#1959472
1959554;1583986020;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-11 23:58:52 trinque: it can be used to build and improve itself. the end.
1959555;1583986119;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959473 - I'll be the first to admit the tree can improve and my ability to improve it can improve. I erred on publishing and being clear it was a draft cause it had been delayed long enough.
1959556;1583986119;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-12 00:13:46 trinque: ok, so what rankles my ass about your goodness list is you have items at wildly different levels of the tree all flattened together like they're of the same importance and same level of the ontology.
1959557;1583986364;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959474 - the first reason is the current gbw-node is in python. the second reason is t
1959558;1583986364;dorion;he only genesis'd irc client, yrc is in python. jfw will be the first to tell you he'd rather neither were in python, nevertheless they
1959559;1583986364;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-12 00:13:55 trinque: what's python even doing there?
1959560;1583986365;dorion;are for now.
1959561;1583986445;dorion;sorry for the busted lines. mp_en_viaje, diana_coman, does eulora use python for anything ?
1959562;1583986734;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959478 - gales linux covers that today. I don't doubt it can be slimmed substantially. nevertheless, the take away from the [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-12#1950668][first thread] was it ain't enough.
1959563;1583986734;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-12 00:37:25 trinque: I propose you delete that list, and you write another. In the new list, write down only the items that will get the machine to boot, and allow the user to edit and rebuild the OS.
1959564;1583986734;ossabot;Logged on 2019-11-12 16:59:56 mircea_popescu: so it's basically a training tool, as far as that goes, a didactic example
1959565;1583987099;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959477 - what do you expect to run on what you're building ? trb ? or is it a bridge too far since isn't required to boot, edit and rebuild ?
1959566;1583987099;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-12 00:19:33 trinque: but anyway. I wasn't describing an item I wish I had. I was describing an item I'm building.
1959567;1583987506;dorion;trinque ftr I very much appreciate what you're conveying in your series which is why I want to both talk about and see it continue. I'm not ignoring it, but I'm also not ignoring the mandate to support the implicit clients. how much are you taking the latter into consideration in what you're building ?
1959568;1583987842;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/closure/ << Trilema -- Closure.
1959569;1583992672;dorion;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-12#1020639 - I wrote that in #o cause I thought, "voice will be lost in here any moment now." but then I thought, "maybe that's the immaturity you have to kill to begin with."
1959570;1583992673;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-03-12 dorion: just gave the [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959499][latest] article a second read. seems like he's saying, "you all could be men, but for whatever reason you're not and I've had enough of the retardation to interact with it further. perhaps me walking away is what's needed to wake you up."
1959571;1583993320;jfw;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-10#1959363 - I *thought* there was something deeper being said in this thread that I wasn't grasping.
1959572;1583993320;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-10 21:26:33 mp_en_viaje: this is of course my problem ; you can do it elsewhere cheaper / better / whatever, i'm the last dood to get in the way of any such a thing.
1959573;1583994411;dorion;one positive that occurs is [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-18#1018739][crisis] is an opportunity to find out who's what.
1959574;1583994411;ossabot;(ossasepia) 2020-02-18 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-18#1018737 - traditionally that is most obviously found out in crisis situations really; did you read [http://trilema.com/2016/modernism-and-traditionalism/][modernism and traditionalism]?
1959575;1583999404;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-12#1959492 - no use for python in eulora, no.
1959576;1583999405;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-12 01:31:41 dorion: sorry for the busted lines. mp_en_viaje, diana_coman, does eulora use python for anything ?
1959577;1583999756;dorion;diana_coman ok. ty, I asked because it was mentioned in your [http://archive.is/xiyVV#selection-9.345-9.413][notes], albeit with skepticism.
1959578;1583999784;diana_coman;dorion: ah, initially it was I guess because of blender; but meanwhile blender will not get to do much/be supported anyway.
1959579;1583999841;dorion;I see.
1959580;1584025349;jfw;mp_en_viaje: I'm available should you still wish to have a look at the wallet.
1959581;1584025363;mp_en_viaje;jfw, sure, why not.
1959582;1584025434;jfw;I haven't got an intro article out yet (sorry diana_coman) but genesis for the parts are at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/v/ : gscm, gbw-signer, gbw-node.
1959583;1584025481;jfw;The installation recipes are at package/README in each tree.
1959584;1584025605;mp_en_viaje;jfw, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959149 << was this more a "can i assume you have a complete republican computer, as per the [not yet written, let alone become part of common culutre] recipe" ?
1959585;1584025605;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 18:59:37 jfw: Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install?
1959586;1584025717;*;mp_en_viaje has prepared such unixlike ; gcc version 4.4.3 is here.
1959587;1584025727;jfw;mp_en_viaje: I didn't think there was such a thing established, indeed, hence the question
1959588;1584025758;mp_en_viaje;well, gcc doesn't know what to do with genesises, so there's a gap.
1959589;1584025797;mp_en_viaje;now then, is gbw-node a node, in the sense that it'll want to eat a metric ton of ram and piddle blockchain vomit on the disk at such a massive rate as the "too small" mb blocks require ?
1959590;1584025875;jfw;right you are... I did assume the V part, huh. gbw-node requires less resources than bitcoind itself, but does require bitcoind.
1959591;1584025953;jfw;Its additional disk usage is proportional to the number of addresses you tell it to watch plus the txes and outputs affecting them.
1959592;1584025963;mp_en_viaje;wait, come again ? it requires less resources... ON TOP of whatever bitcoind wants ? so it's not exactly twofold ?
1959593;1584025980;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2020/tell-me-how-does-it-feel/ << Trilema -- Tell me, how does it feel ?
1959594;1584025999;jfw;mp_en_viaje: correct.
1959595;1584026109;mp_en_viaje;so it'd be fair to rewrite http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959149 rather as "can i assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with no less than 64GB RAM, at least 1 TB HDD that must be SSD, at least two cores and, gcc. v, trb, curl etc, of which trb'd best be up to date" ?
1959596;1584026109;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 18:59:37 jfw: Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install?
1959597;1584026326;jfw;mp_en_viaje: you had specifically referenced the signer part, but sure, and that's why I followed up with http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959219
1959598;1584026326;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-09 22:26:10 jfw: mp_en_viaje: do you have a specific goal in mind for Thursday's wallet work? Do you also want to use the online part (I would imagine so but could technically be done without)? If so, note that it takes about a day to scan the present blockchain once fed the address(es) of interest, and requires a TRB node. If you wish to also send the rawtx using it, as would be most proper, we'll also need that
1959599;1584026352;mp_en_viaje;but doesn't it strike you as at best odd to call this an offline anything ?
1959600;1584026384;mp_en_viaje;i mean... i dunno how to put it, you can do the job of producing raw tx by awk and bc in command line, and i don't mean lineS, i mean one fucking line, though it may run long.
1959601;1584026531;jfw;There are two parts, one online and one offline. That awk program requires inputs. These have to come from somewhere.
1959602;1584026542;mp_en_viaje;sure.
1959603;1584026550;mp_en_viaje;let me tell you how this went in my head :
1959604;1584026598;mp_en_viaje;i dunno if you've noticed, but irrespective : at some point while i was travelling, there were half-hour-ish delays introduced in various processes, such as me upping myself. i even mentioned these in the logs specifically now and again.
1959605;1584026641;mp_en_viaje;the ~reason~ they were there was that now and again i'd break out the red machine, which is an actual machine, and a slavegirl would sit in front of it, and type, by her pretty little hand, meaningless strings, from the black machinery connected to y'all and everything else.
1959606;1584026647;mp_en_viaje;then a response would come out, and she'd type that.
1959607;1584026686;mp_en_viaje;this takes time, typos occur, there's even a script to check lines individually because obviously gpg is too dumb to mark WHERE an error likely lies in a broken pad.
1959608;1584026734;mp_en_viaje;now, i didn't do this because "i absolutely needed to", obviously. i chose to do it, for instance to keep my harem in good shape, and informed, connected to the world such as it is, immersed in reality as it were. i believe in such things.
1959609;1584026785;mp_en_viaje;by extension from this -- and i am not mincing words when i say CULTURAL TRADITION -- i expected our adventure today would be rather similar, "this is the thing for the red machine, and these are the things you'll have to type in it : privkey, txid, txcount, so on".
1959610;1584026825;mp_en_viaje;i'm not saying whether this is reasonable or not, but it is, in its context, justified as described. it's part of something, it lives somewhere.
1959611;1584026898;mp_en_viaje;it provides me, for instance, the knowledge that among the things that need fixing in an "eventual pgp implementation" such as will never likely be, a typo finder'd be quite useful. i even know HOW useful, by practical, real, lived measure.
1959612;1584026906;mp_en_viaje;it maybe provides you the same sort of benefit.
1959613;1584027018;jfw;It does in that I see a typo finder would be useful; I fall short in not having one to offer now.
1959614;1584027063;mp_en_viaje;that's okay, not like it's your job. but your offline wallet is ~maybe~ problematic, especially if i'm correct in not comprehending how is it supposed to actually do any useful work for a secure system.
1959615;1584027071;jfw;THough the whole implementation needing to be typed manually in one line of awk/bc is perhaps the bigger block atm.
1959616;1584027201;mp_en_viaje;it's one thing to say "well mister... no secure systems made before this date are practically useful anymore, because they must include this mb, and so it's practical to make NEW ones, including it". it is ANOTHER thing to say "your secure system must actually be always-on connected to a net interface and via trb at that"
1959617;1584027207;mp_en_viaje;you see how these aren't comensurate at all ?
1959618;1584027360;jfw;ah, sure; but I'm perhaps lost at where you're seeing the node as part of the secure system, because yeah, not so secure if net-connected.
1959619;1584027373;mp_en_viaje;so then why did you list it ?
1959620;1584027390;mp_en_viaje;i went by your list, i'm not making assumptions here
1959621;1584027513;jfw;I suppose I'm the one making assumptions then. Should I have started a node up by seeking again to establish which pieces you needed?
1959622;1584027554;mp_en_viaje;well i dunno. let's see, again. what i'd like to do is produce a broadcastable tx such as to pay the fellows in question out of the pile of coin i have.
1959623;1584027642;mp_en_viaje;if this reduces to "you must do your computation on a machine wtih a node running" i am not interested -- it's definitely no different, and self-evidently mroe expensive than using a -- say -- web wallet.
1959624;1584027819;jfw;Alright. What I have is a program that could be included on a secure machine built now, with which to do that computation, and a companion program that can suggest what you might use for its inputs given an online machine.
1959625;1584027883;jfw;It sounds like this does not help with what you presently want to do.
1959626;1584028049;mp_en_viaje;well, if they're fused at the hip so to speak, i don't think it would.
1959627;1584028086;mp_en_viaje;anyway, thanks for going through it with me ; i hope the exercise might've been informative to you as well.
1959628;1584028164;jfw;The main fusing as far as I see is that it can't even be established what your pile of coin is without trusting at least one online machine
1959629;1584028250;mp_en_viaje;i thought the pile was established already ; or else what is the gasp in http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959145 ?
1959630;1584028250;ossabot;Logged on 2020-03-07 18:56:30 jfw: Moving on though: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959066 - I'm honored; was spinning a bit on "but what if it fucks up and zaps more coin than I've ever laid hands on??" but yeah, can't wait for another life, it's about time
1959631;1584028269;diana_coman;jfw: does the above mean that the "offline" part includes trb?
1959632;1584028287;mp_en_viaje;the problem of security is distinguishing public from private information. the fact that address X holds Y is not even controversial, but eminently public info
1959633;1584028299;mp_en_viaje;you don't need a secure machine to "find it on its own"
1959634;1584028317;jfw;If it is acceptable to you to install new software on a machine with the private key, and to trust the inputs from somewhere online (possibly correlating from multiple sources), then we might have basis to continue. (catching up...)
1959635;1584028348;mp_en_viaje;jfw, there's nothing to trust. what am i trusting ? that indeed address x holds y ? this isn't the sort of thing that requires trust
1959636;1584028373;mp_en_viaje;in other words, i think your premises, not here, but in general, your ~manner of thinking~ is broken, in that you confuse very unlike things.
1959637;1584028427;jfw;mp_en_viaje: the gasp reflects that there are ways to mess up even the offline signature computation.
1959638;1584028451;mp_en_viaje;yeah ; we've not even arrived at that point
1959639;1584028457;jfw;diana_coman: not as I'd conceived it but seems that's what we're trying to determine
1959640;1584028478;mp_en_viaje;but yes, the principal problem with "self-baked" tx is that it is in some cases possible for someone to re-write the tx such as to, for instance, take your inputs as fees for themselves.
1959641;1584028501;mp_en_viaje;as an extension of the miner-upon-holders attack that resulted in the original bitbet death.
1959642;1584028589;jfw;mp_en_viaje: yes. I don't think I'm confused in the suggested way: can't information be public but still sensitive to tampering?
1959643;1584028616;mp_en_viaje;well it'd kinda seem that's what publicity does : adds tamper resistence.
1959644;1584028651;mp_en_viaje;see, this is what i mean above : you take a very absolute view, which happens to be inadequate. "how is the secure machine to know" is not an interesting problem in the absolute sense you contemplate it.
1959645;1584028732;jfw;adds tamper resistance, unless one is surrounded by a sybil. This is interesting though, re absolute view
1959646;1584028771;mp_en_viaje;yes, "if one is surrounded by a sybil". do you know the story of the man who made a submarine so strong, it'd have withstood even falling off a cliff ?
1959647;1584028773;jfw;er I mean, the absolute view point is interesting, which I guess is that ...the sybil case is not interesting?
1959648;1584028804;jfw;mp_en_viaje: reminds me of a jules verne novel but not as such
1959649;1584028813;mp_en_viaje;hitler essentially lost the war by making ever bigger tanks. "bigger is better". wel... it sure as fuck makes a better target...
1959650;1584028841;jfw;heh
1959651;1584028863;mp_en_viaje;so don't you try solving the grave problem of the user being entirely surrounded by a sybil inside the secure code. let him worry about that outside the box.
1959652;1584028896;mp_en_viaje;otherwise you will find yourself stuck trying to somehow make the red machine also include lasers, "just in case it needs to protect the owner from rubber hose cryptanalisis".
1959653;1584028915;mp_en_viaje;this premise is contrary to the other premise, a secure system is specifically one that doesn't do everything.
1959654;1584028941;jfw;lol! perhaps the offline part is fine after all
1959655;1584028954;mp_en_viaje;well, does it need gwb-node or not ?
1959656;1584028994;jfw;It does not, in the sense that you can supply the inputs from whatever source you wish.
1959657;1584029055;mp_en_viaje;alright. so then it's really gscm and gbw-signer that i want, the first being what, your hand-rolled mathlib ?
1959658;1584029079;jfw;Scheme interpreter.
1959659;1584029102;jfw;And yes.
1959660;1584029128;mp_en_viaje;+1. Read/write ordering bug in pop() -- returned top of stack after having
1959661;1584029128;mp_en_viaje;+already removed it. Needed to store to a temporary.
1959662;1584029130;mp_en_viaje;ahahah what the fuck.
1959663;1584029148;mp_en_viaje;i dunno why more people don't read more code. i swear to god usg-sponsored "comedy" is nowhere near as funny.
1959664;1584029183;jfw;hey, I preserved as much of the history as I could
1959665;1584029207;mp_en_viaje;good for you.
1959666;1584029221;jfw;ty
1959667;1584029235;mp_en_viaje;jfw, aite, which v do you use ?
1959668;1584029300;jfw;I confess I mostly run 'patch' by hand, but v.pl modified for keccak or any other supporting same should work.
1959669;1584029308;mp_en_viaje;...
1959670;1584029358;mp_en_viaje;i'm not specifically trying to be an asshole here, even though i apparently manage splendidly regardless. do you see what might make a different me throw up his hands at this juncture ?
1959671;1584029445;jfw;That I'm misusing the tool you invented and haven't fully tested a better process?
1959672;1584029559;jfw;or fully specified even, hm.
1959673;1584029617;mp_en_viaje;invented whatever, iirc i just recognized the importance of shit other people came up with. but more's the point : you sit there "ready for sex" but you don't know where your zipper is or how it opens ? "any way!!!" ? wtf how are we to satisfyingly copulate here ?
1959674;1584029665;mp_en_viaje;i'm willing to pay a visit, but... can i have like... a chair ? because no, "sit anywhere" isn't really an equivalent
1959675;1584029775;mp_en_viaje;i guess it became fashionable in grenwich village at some point, just a pile of indistinct rags and "sit anywhere" -- but i confess i never sat. i always left.
1959676;1584029836;jfw;I'm digging for a known working zipper-opening guide, I know diana_coman has one.
1959677;1584029854;mp_en_viaje;why ty!
1959678;1584030069;dorion;jfw http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/10/v-tree-and-v-starter-v2/
1959679;1584030080;jfw;well there is http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/10/v-tree-and-v-starter-v2/ but looks like there's some fix not yet incorporated into the starter, meaning... circular dependence on V to get the fix
1959680;1584030098;mp_en_viaje;my my.
1959681;1584030158;diana_coman;jfw: hm, which fix?
1959682;1584030214;jfw;diana_coman: I'm going by the first three comments there, starting from spyked, http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/10/v-tree-and-v-starter-v2/#comment-7012
1959683;1584030217;diana_coman;I think it states quite clearly what it presses to; is that not enough for what you need?
1959684;1584030301;diana_coman;jfw: why don't you take the zip, do the test run and then you know and can tell ?
1959685;1584030328;mp_en_viaje;v has an intrinsic bootstrapping problem we never actually resolved, doesn't it.
1959686;1584030387;diana_coman;it does at that; and my "starter" thing there is precisely a stopgap; that comes...miraculously handy at times but still apparently not worth checking upfront or something, huh.
1959687;1584030459;mp_en_viaje;myeah
1959688;1584030536;mp_en_viaje;anyways, /me shall now go for a little walk. laters!
1959689;1584030541;jfw;mp_en_viaje: since it looks like I've some zipper debt to catch up on here, I'll ask - do you have GNAT available on the system you intend to press on? Because that's an indirect dependency here, but I think I can avoid it if need be.
1959690;1584030564;jfw;later mp_en_viaje, thanks for the guidance.
1959691;1584030595;jfw;eh, well perl for that matter too if I'm listing all that.
1959692;1584030653;diana_coman;jfw: listen, you do a full test-run of everything so that you can properly guide someone step by step and you know 200% what is required and at what point.
1959693;1584030841;jfw;diana_coman: noted and will do.
1959694;1584031099;jfw;I mean, I could easily say "use this gpg command and look for this message to verify, then if that succeeds run this patch command", I tested all that, it will work, but I don't perceive it to solve the problem at hand.
1959695;1584031850;diana_coman;jfw: no, it wouldn't solve the problem at hand, indeed.
1959696;1584036660;jfw;re GNAT, it occurs to me the better question is not "what does mp_en_viaje have handy" but "what am I going to test and require of the user and support by explaining at whatever level necessary?" Which is not a question for mp_en_viaje at all as stated.
1959697;1584051535;jfw;mp_en_viaje: would you like to schedule a continuation on the wallet effort (on which I've quite appreciated your role) once I've got my V ducks in a row? I can offer the same time Tuesday.
1959698;1584063969;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2020/03/fiatbitcoin-interfaces-report-sharp-gains-for-usd/ << Qntra -- fiat/Bitcoin Interfaces Report Sharp Gains For USD Despite US Market Weakening
1959699;1584103552;mp_en_viaje;jfw, thanks, but i don't intend to stretch it that far.
1959700;1584103607;mp_en_viaje;what i'll do is, come the 15th ima sweep the address into one of the web wallets and pay the fellows from there (at their own risk).
1959701;1584103619;mp_en_viaje;shocking, i suppose, but in the end, it's what we've got.
1959702;1584103653;mp_en_viaje;neways, anyone having something to say on that (or any other) matter, they're welcome to do it on the blog.