1925895;1564618271;mp_en_viaje;ave1, you know i got a coupla comments in queue 1925896;1564619197;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: thinkin' moar re the 'monkeys' -- imho these were the folx continuing to build dec clones , crapples & other micros, and in the inevitable march to microshit hell. rather than the bolix/lmi folx. these, imho, did Right Thing. (even if ended by plugging embrasure with torso) 1925897;1564619222;mp_en_viaje;the dec wasn't evne that terribru 1925898;1564619242;asciilifeform;for 1968 -- no, not terrible. 1925899;1564619253;mp_en_viaje;right 1925900;1564619281;mp_en_viaje;anyway. point remains, lmi, bolix, etc folk had absolute obligations : a) to work together ; b) to not work with morons. 1925901;1564619294;mp_en_viaje;defaulted on both. wtf fucked in the head/ 1925902;1564620372;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, any chanceyour blog gets recentcomments ? 1925903;1564622500;BingoBoingo;mp_en_viaje: I'll dig up some code to restore recent comments to the sidebar 1925904;1564624149;BingoBoingo;And recentcomments is online 1925905;1564626067;feedbot;http://blog.mod6.net/2019/08/testing-bvts-blockwise-read-vpatch/ << mod6's Blog -- Testing bvt's Blockwise Read vpatch 1925906;1564642793;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, nice 1925907;1564642848;mp_en_viaje;btw, i got like 60 pingbacks from you, that are all dupes. i mean... http://trilema.com/2013/ripple-the-definitive-discussion/#comment-95245 exists, but now there;s also one from http://bingology.net/2013/09/26/anti-bitcoin-bitcoin-apps-part-3-gliph-in-particular/?b=Rippl&e=#select 1925908;1564642855;mp_en_viaje;i wonder wtf shall i do 1925909;1564644024;mp_en_viaje;lobbes hmm lobbesbot gone ? 1925910;1564644072;mp_en_viaje;in other old lulz, http://trilema.com/2014/cunt-size-discussion-this-is-guaranteed-to-be-weird/#footnote_1_53633 1925911;1564647726;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, should prolly exclude pingbacks and be longer. 1925912;1564647743;mp_en_viaje;anyways ima publish all these bingology trackbkacs seeing how they use the neat select thing, improvement over old ver. 1925913;1564648212;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/how-plugrushcom-got-itself-banned-or-heres-what-business-is-not/ << Trilema -- How plugrush.com got itself banned, or Here's what business is not 1925914;1564651299;mp_en_viaje;ahahaha what the everloving fuck! bingo@patreon ?! 1925915;1564663319;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: re: lobbesbot. The heathen VPS it is hosted on is migrating their servers. Hopefully will be back online in 24 hours (I didn't want 100% of my stuff on Pizarro; potential central point of failure and all) 1925916;1564663349;lobbes;though I must say, Pizarro uptime has proven to be far superior than any of the heathen options thus far 1925917;1564663367;*;lobbes bbl $mines 1925918;1564664058;feedbot;http://ave1.org/2019/lisp-why-step-5/ << ave1 -- Lisp, Why?, step #5 1925919;1564664572;mp_en_viaje;aok 1925920;1564666168;ave1;I also have to work on my attention span for writing, I'm getting impatient half-way through. 1925921;1564669338;mp_en_viaje;ave1, it's better to adjust article length to your span, and let it work itself gradually. 1925922;1564669350;mp_en_viaje;early trilema articles were short ; then got longer and more involved over time 1925923;1564671268;mp_en_viaje;lol in a concerted effort to not make mistakes, shrysr 's description of his understanding of the wot thing became significantly vague-r. and of course mistakes still make it in, eg "This rating represents what that person means to you in whatever way you like." is specifically untrue. the number you associated with a rating represens your guess at the likelihood that you will be able to answer a question about that party asked b 1925924;1564671268;mp_en_viaje;y someone who has rated you. 1925925;1564671373;mp_en_viaje;this is why [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-28#1925355][the unknowns problem] is an absolute bar to a high rating -- if people keep asking me questions about X that i can't answer, ima eventually drop their rating. 1925926;1564671373;a111;Logged on 2019-07-28 23:01 mp_en_viaje: as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-01#1806991 tradition i don't even have enough information to distinguish between the case where "phf bleeding to death in a minsk ditch" ; "phf in love forgot all about world" ; "phf kidnapped by unreported alien invasion" or literally any other alternative. nfi how to approach it, either, tried everything i could think of. 1925927;1564671408;mp_en_viaje;really there's no way to understand the wot outside of the general theory of the field it resolves, oracles and sybils and all that. 1925928;1564673542;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/098-hunchentoot-iv.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: acceptor code review 1925929;1564673902;asciilifeform;spyked: can pleeeez haz comments on your www ? ( at the risk of repeating [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-26#1925066][mp_en_viaje's] , srsly, 'no comment box' is quite discouraging in re reading) 1925930;1564673902;a111;Logged on 2019-07-26 18:53 mp_en_viaje: im guessing for this one time http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fn1VH/?raw=true will have to be it ; but for the love of christ, what are you doing to me here ? am i going to simply ignore your articles because i know for a fact i'm not interestreded in reading something i can't comment on and you're forcing on me the dilemma of either not commenting at all or else losing it in pastes ? this won't do, if i use an hour to read a post i 1925931;1564673928;mp_en_viaje;he did say he'll put them in manually. 1925932;1564673943;asciilifeform;tru 1925933;1564674020;asciilifeform;spyked: imho your 'hunchentoot' vivisection illustrates important point : just how much of the complexity of that thing is on acct of idjit tcpism's shit abstractions, i.e. the lengths to which it goes to pretend that the machines aint exchanging short packets in quasi-reliable ordering 1925934;1564674079;asciilifeform;'acceptors', 'persistent connections', various streamisms, 'listeners', and other 'i can't believe it's not serialport!111' horros 1925935;1564674082;asciilifeform;*horrors 1925936;1564674150;asciilifeform;for yrs nao, asciilifeform thought, 'why the everliving fuck not serve page as a set of luby packets' 1925937;1564674169;asciilifeform;then -- 'magically' -- no moar 'acceptors', 'streams', 'listeners', 'chunkings'... 1925938;1564674256;spyked;asciilifeform, sorry for the annoyance. will certainly do, but the effort to add comments is non-trivial. I'ma try to add structured commenting (box + comments section for each post) in a few weeks from now, but it'll still be a manually operated thing on my side for a while. 1925939;1564674259;asciilifeform;on top of this : could just as easily serve a page from cluster of boxes instead of merely 1 (there's nothing preventing the slices from being generated wherever you want) 1925940;1564674331;spyked;agreed re. tcpism, the "persistent connection" abstraction is entirely unfit for this kind of thing. 1925941;1564674345;asciilifeform;spyked: imho put link to this thread, is even better than pasting the 'comment' 1925942;1564674480;asciilifeform;tcp was a 'gift' of profound retardation that 'keeps on giving', even to moar obvious extent than e.g. unix. it is single-handedly responsible for ~100% of the backbreaking complexicrud of apache, ssh, ftp, etc 1925943;1564674585;asciilifeform;the net aint a serial port!! it dun behave like a serial port! and the [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191][spackle] dun do any good, it [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895617][cracks and peels when you so much as blow on it] 1925944;1564674585;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 19:10 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs. 1925945;1564674585;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking about it -- 'zxc' strikes me as a classic case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191 and impedence mismatch generally. it was clearly written as attempt to 'deterministic scheduler on ??? iron/os', but fails, cuz you can't actually spackle away impedence mismatch b/w the underlying platform and the proggy 1925946;1564674804;asciilifeform;ever wonder why heathens still fascinated, like [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108#selection-37.0-37.409][chukchas with radio found in taiga], with 'bittorrent' ? it's because warez goes at ~line rate~ over 'bittorrent'. and at maybe 2/3 line rate on http on a good weather day. why? cuz bt , despite authored by idiot, ~let go of tcpism~ ! 1925947;1564674984;asciilifeform;as if the ludicrous cpu & bw waste of tcp weren't enuff, it also conveniently groups (with said grouping being entirely plaintext) 'sessions' for hitler to moar conveniently store & read. 1925948;1564675282;asciilifeform;will reproduce bit of spyked's text for the log : 1925949;1564675289;asciilifeform;'Now, as if this wasn't enough, TCP also has a (transport layer) segment size, which must fit into a so-called "Maximum Segment Size" (MSS), which must be smaller than the MTU, because we also need to fit lower-layer headers and all that. Otherwise TCP isn't concerned too much with this, but misconfiguration can cause problems with congestion windows and whatnot, and we sure as hell don't want this shit to blow up. Finally, as if the 1925950;1564675289;asciilifeform; fuckers who designed the L3 shit and the ones who specced the L4 shit didn't add enough, here come the L7 idiots who, not being satisfied with a "file transfer protocol" decide to "support" file transfers over HTTP; and since files may be as large as, say, 1TB, then yes, splitting them into small chunks is very much preferable to sending the whole thing right away.' 1925951;1564675344;asciilifeform;^ i.e. there are at least ~4~ successive impedance-mismatched layers of liquishit , if you count ~server~ (e.g. hunchentoot) . ~5~ if you count reader's browser ! 1925952;1564675840;asciilifeform;the 'session' abstraction aint even cardboard , it is toilet paper. yes, i get it, ftp or irc box might want to represent a user as having a 'session' that might time out etc. but why give 9000 flaky (or malicious) routers between the user & server the ability to close the session whenever ~they~ feel like it ? 1925953;1564676885;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925907 << I noticed the blog was missing incoming some incoming trackback on older posts, so I poked the DB a bit. 1925954;1564676885;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 07:00 mp_en_viaje: btw, i got like 60 pingbacks from you, that are all dupes. i mean... http://trilema.com/2013/ripple-the-definitive-discussion/#comment-95245 exists, but now there;s also one from http://bingology.net/2013/09/26/anti-bitcoin-bitcoin-apps-part-3-gliph-in-particular/?b=Rippl&e=#select 1925955;1564679683;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925914 << prolly he subscribed to somebody's pay www ? i defo did at 1 pt ( orlol's ) 1925956;1564679683;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 09:21 mp_en_viaje: ahahaha what the everloving fuck! bingo@patreon ?! 1925957;1564679738;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Went fising for derps 1925958;1564679758;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: caught any ? 1925959;1564679758;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, asciilifeform somehow patreon sent unsolicited email to the email address i published earlier today 1925960;1564679779;mp_en_viaje;i still suispect some kind of ungodly manipulation, because no mailinglist was confirmed or anything like that. 1925961;1564679794;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: they send spam like it's 1999 lol 1925962;1564679805;mp_en_viaje;and they know to send it from bingo@patreon ? 1925963;1564679834;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: also their pw reset mechanism is broken, i've been trying to log in & cancel acct for 3+ yrs nao (erry 6mo or so) and been to their india-powered 'support line' even. no dice. 1925964;1564679836;mp_en_viaje;in other sad lulz : protonmail.com too pantsuit to... show you the god damned headers. 1925965;1564679843;mp_en_viaje;imagine that wonder of "security" 1925966;1564679851;asciilifeform;what's 'proton' ? disposable spamgourmet thing ? 1925967;1564679866;mp_en_viaje;wanna-be usgistic "encrypted emaik" 1925968;1564679919;asciilifeform;lol, does it come with acct on 'keybase' !? 1925969;1564679930;mp_en_viaje;2048 bit something, nfi 1925970;1564679934;mp_en_viaje;prolly 1925971;1564679968;*;asciilifeform of the 'get the cheapest astrologist' school of thought , on those occasions when must use email 1925972;1564680023;mp_en_viaje;i dun think this costs anything 1925973;1564680053;asciilifeform;if it's 1 of those lulzy 'faux crypto via js' things, costs having-to-login-from-js-browser neh. 1925974;1564680148;mp_en_viaje;shrysr, https://s.ragavan.co/2019/07/failed-to-implement-the-line-selection-to-url-hack/?b=Summary&e=estimate#select << works fine ? 1925975;1564680151;mp_en_viaje;!!up shrysr 1925976;1564680151;deedbot;shrysr voiced for 30 minutes. 1925977;1564680250;mp_en_viaje;this might be the first time i actually get to say to engineer that reported complete failure "oh, actually, it works ?!" 1925978;1564680255;mp_en_viaje;usually it's other way around 1925979;1564680271;BingoBoingo; BingoBoingo: caught any ? << Caught a deep impression that US, EE, and SA poverteneur goals are converging to the same 400 USD/month 1925980;1564680368;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: what does this mean , for beggar to have 'goal' ? maybe i'm thick, but i thought 'goal' was to fill the hat with as many coins as possible erry day ? 1925981;1564680405;asciilifeform;( what does beggar do if 'not meet goal' ?? on street corner, he could walk to new corner. but what's the 'patreon' equiv ?? ) 1925982;1564680420;shrysr;mp_en_viaje: works fine ?? 1925983;1564680425;mp_en_viaje;yes ? 1925984;1564680484;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, move on to being rapper ? 1925985;1564680506;shrysr;mp_en_viaje: I implemented the 2nd article's directions - just tried... not working on my browser 1925986;1564680508;BingoBoingo; ( what does beggar do if 'not meet goal' ?? on street corner, he could walk to new corner. but what's the 'patreon' equiv ?? ) << Actual pichis pointedly can't walk to any other corner as they wish because bum fights 1925987;1564680512;mp_en_viaje;note : this guess is bolstered by sampling conversation with a lot of their "girlfriends" 1925988;1564680526;mp_en_viaje;shrysr, must be the browser, because it works as expected here. 1925989;1564680543;BingoBoingo;shrysr: You select thing works from here too 1925990;1564680552;mp_en_viaje;http://archive.is/wjGRL << archive also sees it. 1925991;1564680553;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i thought progression were more usually e.g. x -> y -> rapper -> p -> q -> beggar rather than x -> beggar -> y 1925992;1564680588;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, you familiar with qm concepts of proba bility cloud yes ? here it's probability clown : entrepreneur, student, rapper, designer, etc 1925993;1564680590;asciilifeform;shrysr: indeed your select display seems to work 1925994;1564680600;shrysr;HOLY SHIT 1925995;1564680603;mp_en_viaje;keks 1925996;1564680628;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: lol i have'em moar 'classically' modeled as simply 'beggar' energy level 1925997;1564680642;mp_en_viaje;not adequate! 1925998;1564680651;asciilifeform;evidently 1925999;1564680749;shrysr;mp_en_viaje: i thought the 2nd solution browser independent? I'm using the firefox dev edition 1926000;1564680751;*;asciilifeform pictures 'hybridization orbital' for rapper-designer etc 1926001;1564680778;mp_en_viaje;shrysr, nfi why it doesn't work on your machine. indeed the solution should be browser independent. maybe they broke the spec ? 1926002;1564680805;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, foreals. 1926003;1564680817;mp_en_viaje;this is factual, and predictively-productive. 1926004;1564680864;asciilifeform;'Note taken on [2019-07-31 Wed 09:17]
Summary: By my estimate, I have spent 6-8' << oughta display anywhere 1926005;1564680865;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/qntra-s-qntr-july-2019-report/ << Qntra -- Qntra (S.QNTR) July 2019 Report 1926006;1564680910;asciilifeform;'lynx' does report 'bad html' tho 1926007;1564680921;asciilifeform;(but naturally dun say ~where~...) 1926008;1564680939;shrysr;mp_en_viaje: just tried on a 'fresh' chrome installation.. still don't see it. 1926009;1564680944;mp_en_viaje;wtf. 1926010;1564680962;*;asciilifeform tried on several chromisms, all seem to display 1926011;1564680990;asciilifeform;shrysr: i suspect there's an unclosed tag somewhere 1926012;1564681031;asciilifeform;most of the extant browsers do the [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779522][idjit 'postel's law' thing] where they 'fix' 1926013;1564681031;a111;Logged on 2018-02-02 16:23 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die. 1926014;1564681033;asciilifeform;evidently not all 1926015;1564681047;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/kiev-the-continuation/ << Trilema -- Kiev, the continuation. 1926016;1564681070;shrysr;asciilifeform: ok, will check and revert. but damnnnnnn its working somewhere..rofl. Its such a cool thing and I don't know why its not standard. 1926017;1564681081;mp_en_viaje;shrysr, the current theory seems to be indeed his : your page is subtly broken somewhere else, which makes this not work on some browsers but not others. put it through validators see if you can find the unclosed tag or we/ 1926018;1564681112;shrysr;ok 1926019;1564681112;asciilifeform;shrysr: mp_en_viaje's orig item worx 100% errywhere (that i've tried) 1926020;1564681128;mp_en_viaje;shrysr, indeed, wanna try the select on my page on yoru browsers ? 1926021;1564681140;asciilifeform;epic win, btw, the server-end highlighter. i'ma put it in my www as soon as have a free finger or two 1926022;1564681143;mp_en_viaje;if it works there it's almost certain such a subtle error in your theme, as an uncliosed div or span or such 1926023;1564681233;shrysr;mp_en_viaje: yes selection on your pages work, and so does younghands.club, .. seen it before and just rechecked. 1926024;1564681250;mp_en_viaje;right. validate your theme and see. 1926025;1564681263;mp_en_viaje;(fwiw, trilema spits out deliberately invalid html, also) 1926026;1564681403;mp_en_viaje;in other scandal, by the time i hit "[wafs] wake-acceptor-for-shutdown" in spyked 's story i'm so fucking pissed off i can't even continue reading. 1926027;1564681426;mp_en_viaje;why the fuck is this hunchenback even written in lisp ? it's pure python, why not just write it in python and be happy. 1926028;1564681431;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i was only able to eat w/out choking because already, decade+ ago, had read 'hunchentoot' an' barfed 1926029;1564681445;mp_en_viaje;this is not a lisp program. 1926030;1564681451;asciilifeform;point is , tho, that it is barfalicious ~because tcp~, not because author as such was tard 1926031;1564681474;asciilifeform;you can't actually write a tcpistic http serv thing that doesn't end up looking exactly like this, or worse. 1926032;1564681474;mp_en_viaje;it's the exact equivalent of enunciating english words with an o at the end to speako el mexicano, understando ? 1926033;1564681631;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: imho described [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925933][upstack] 100% covers it. 1926034;1564681631;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 15:40 asciilifeform: spyked: imho your 'hunchentoot' vivisection illustrates important point : just how much of the complexity of that thing is on acct of idjit tcpism's shit abstractions, i.e. the lengths to which it goes to pretend that the machines aint exchanging short packets in quasi-reliable ordering 1926035;1564682805;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: at one time in '17 asciilifeform tried hand at writing basic ada www server. ended up burning it all. because ended up looking quite like 'hunchentoot', and quite evidently 'water took the shape of the bottle', i.e. inescapably 1926036;1564682833;mp_en_viaje;ok, but it's stll not fuckin glisp in any meaningful sense. 1926037;1564682869;mp_en_viaje;i don't specifically care re the culprint ; but i do not see the wisdom of having a lisp server if it looks like that. for one thing, if you just make it honest c more people can be found to debug it. 1926038;1564682965;asciilifeform;imho if stuck with ugly piece of shit, would still rather have one w/out the nulltermstring, buf overrun, offbyone, etc. bugola. but i see mp_en_viaje's pt 1926039;1564682984;mp_en_viaje;i also do not believe that going about in ox-drawn carts with "Mercedesuzuki" spray-painted on the sides "will aid people to migrate to cars later" or anything 1926040;1564683012;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, that might be an argument for ada. but not for lisp. lisp comes with interpreter costs etc. 1926041;1564683053;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: cl (aside from egregiously retarded incarnations, e.g. gnu's) aint interpreted, lol 1926042;1564683066;mp_en_viaje;i thought this required gnu cl 1926043;1564683068;asciilifeform;penalty (given similar algo) is approx same as ada's 1926044;1564683092;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: hunchentoot is known to run on e.g. sbcl, ccl , where compiled. 1926045;1564683097;mp_en_viaje;ah 1926046;1564683131;mp_en_viaje;anyway, i'm not proposing any hangings today ; but we also can't just completely ignore this ridiculousness wtf. 1926047;1564683171;asciilifeform;in asciilifeform's judgement, the retardation is pulled in ~by the protocol per se~ . but folx are welcome to try an' prove wrong. 1926048;1564683203;mp_en_viaje;irrespective of how it gets in -- the fact remains, it's STILL not lisp, even if "written in lisp". cuz it's "written in lisp*" where * = as if it were not lisp 1926049;1564683279;asciilifeform;'fortran in lisp'(tm) 1926050;1564683304;mp_en_viaje;ikr ?! 1926051;1564683326;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925939 << this is incidentally a very good point i would much regret being lost. webpages wouldn't suffer from this "coinverges -- eventually" behaviour 1926052;1564683326;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 15:44 asciilifeform: on top of this : could just as easily serve a page from cluster of boxes instead of merely 1 (there's nothing preventing the slices from being generated wherever you want) 1926053;1564683343;mp_en_viaje;and yes, suddenly multi-server becomes free. 1926054;1564683359;asciilifeform;and ddosism evaporates. 1926055;1564683361;mp_en_viaje;besides, the mechanism splendidly demonstrared in torrents, not like this is arcana toch 1926056;1564683364;mp_en_viaje;tech* 1926057;1564683365;mp_en_viaje;yup. 1926058;1564683391;asciilifeform;[http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925946][re torrent -- noted, btw, upstack] 1926059;1564683391;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 15:53 asciilifeform: ever wonder why heathens still fascinated, like [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108#selection-37.0-37.409][chukchas with radio found in taiga], with 'bittorrent' ? it's because warez goes at ~line rate~ over 'bittorrent'. and at maybe 2/3 line rate on http on a good weather day. why? cuz bt , despite authored by idiot, ~let go of tcpism~ ! 1926060;1564683392;mp_en_viaje;it is very evidently and most eminently the only rught thing. 1926061;1564683496;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: btw this is another application where box with FG wins -- generating fast-converging luby frags 1926062;1564683526;asciilifeform;( even if you have to 'stretch' the FG w/ prngism, still 9000x moar convergence than with bare hands ) 1926063;1564683546;mp_en_viaje;not even sure must be lubby necessarily ; but anyways 1926064;1564683598;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: there are actually coupla dozen (that asciilifeform knows of) schemes similar in scope to luby's -- i picked his simply cuz a) works b) minimal complexity 1926065;1564683631;mp_en_viaje;nor am i against it or anything. 1926066;1564683662;mp_en_viaje;but the stance seems tenable that if we're gonna go to all the trouble to make and maintain lisp webserver, might as well make a non-fucked one and make new browsers for it 1926067;1564683664;asciilifeform;it is far from proven that it could not be substantially improved on. but afaik a) only along the axis of bw economy b) at substantial expense in re moving parts. 1926068;1564683677;asciilifeform;( this in re luby's algo ) 1926069;1564683679;mp_en_viaje;and if not wanna actually fuck, then get out of the night club, go home, have a tea 1926070;1564683713;mp_en_viaje;which rapidly collapses "lisp webserver" into gossipd and all that. 1926071;1564683745;asciilifeform;strictly speaking , udpistic page server doesn't even require gossipism. but ideally yes. 1926072;1564683804;asciilifeform;( why would ~not~ want ? conceivably, cuz rsa is expensive. at least until we have e.g. that 8192bit mips iron, or similar ) 1926073;1564683943;mp_en_viaje;can start with a non-cyphered poc antyway 1926074;1564684136;asciilifeform;an' if 'sane server', and 'fuck or go home and tea', may as well then also serve up sexpr instead of the html soup. 1926075;1564684234;mp_en_viaje;yes. 1926076;1564684249;mp_en_viaje;why the fuck would lisp webserver serve ANYTHING ELSE 1926077;1564684259;mp_en_viaje;it makes no fuckin gsense at no node in the whole fractal tree of stupid. 1926078;1564684357;asciilifeform;the only conceivable reason why httpism lived (for 3!! fucking decades) is cowardice. 'oh noez, couldn't tell reader to install sane browser, MUST compat with internet-exploder' etc 1926079;1564684375;mp_en_viaje;but now ~that there is structure of authority~... eminently CAN tell. 1926080;1564684415;mp_en_viaje;especially seeing how nobody is forced or required to fucking use it ; not for a while anyways. can always fall back on present c-ism if would rather. 1926081;1564684428;mp_en_viaje;this is basically the discussion here, properly identify the quantified states. 1926082;1564684506;asciilifeform;reason why 3 decade of 'apache' is same as why erryone (incl. microshit) is using that SAME tcp stack from berkeley '80s. cuz protocol was deliberately made so braindamaged, with literally 10,000+ moving parts, that ~impossible to correctly reimplement if demanding compat with 'everyone' 1926083;1564684523;asciilifeform;the correct end of the funnel to plug, is to burn the protocol. 1926084;1564684551;asciilifeform;(same thing we're doing to gpg's rfc2440 etc) 1926085;1564684771;asciilifeform;there's a long queue of 'idjit standards that Must Die if anyffin sane is to be possible'. on other side of the tower, e.g., x86. 1926086;1564684868;asciilifeform;'из говна пулю не сделаешь'(tm)(r) 1926087;1564686488;asciilifeform;prolly this is where asciilifeform oughta admit, that in his notebook he has (what thinks is) a reasonable protocol for this. it however needs fast keccak. 1926088;1564686519;asciilifeform;( cleanly handles the multi-box scenario, too. ) 1926089;1564687311;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925973 << i dunno that non-js webmail thing exists. 1926090;1564687311;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 17:20 asciilifeform: if it's 1 of those lulzy 'faux crypto via js' things, costs having-to-login-from-js-browser neh. 1926091;1564688849;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 'mailinator', 'gmx', etc spamtraps still afaik work 1926092;1564689121;*;mp_en_viaje is admittedly not keeping too close an eye 1926093;1564693319;dorion;I have a trb node pressed to asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks.vpatch plus a local modification to add a new rpc. This node was was fully synced for a couple days, but has failed to verify block 588012. 1926094;1564693341;dorion;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gQ05f/?raw=true << Here is debug.log snippet since receiving 588011. ~300 lines in it fails on 588012. 1926095;1564693368;dorion;The remainder of that file is the remainder of the hour in which it attemps several reorgs. 1926096;1564694289;mp_en_viaje;is it actyually block 588012 hash 0000000000000000000ba68c82d9b620cf028f0642c833a5eda92dbf68d5a3fb ? or is it the next, hafsize one, hash 0000000000000000001498ec3c9796a44b53b8b70186920d15a5e34afcaaa719 ? 1926097;1564694674;dorion;because the hash is truncated in the log, it only indicates the leading b for 588012. 1926098;1564694702;dorion;Given the truncated hashes, I pressed to asciilifeform_whogaveblox.vpatch (which includes mod6_excise_hash_truncation.vpatch), stopped the node and restarted with the new binary. 1926099;1564694732;dorion;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qT7ce/?raw=true << Here is first 200 lines from debug.log after the restart. 1926100;1564694780;dorion;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kpTWI/?raw=true << Here is the snippet starting at first reorg attempt in that run. 1926101;1564694887;dorion;when I grep 0000000000000000000ba68c82d9b620cf028f0642c833a5eda92dbf68d5a3fb debug.log it reports to have 1926102;1564695153;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-there-really-so-many-people-with-such-troubles-in-your-country-to-make-such-medicine-such-an-important-matter-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - "Are there really so many people with such troubles in your country to make such medicine such an important matter?" Adnotated. 1926103;1564695479;asciilifeform;hmm dorion why didja build w/out the de-truncation patch ? 1926104;1564695499;asciilifeform;pretty sure it made it into the flagship vtree 1926105;1564695505;asciilifeform;( mod6 ? ) 1926106;1564695558;asciilifeform;dorion: '08/01/19 01:11:33 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=0000000000000000000b height=588012 work=2327381792950809691787748424' << somebody's sending invalid blox. happens erryday. 1926107;1564695562;asciilifeform;0 to do with trb. 1926108;1564695738;dorion;asciilifeform de-truncation is marked experimental on btcbase.org/patches and thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches 1926109;1564695740;asciilifeform;dorion: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/588012.blk << blk # 588012 from zoolag. 1926110;1564696021;dorion;ty, stopping now and restarting with -caneat 1926111;1564696051;asciilifeform;of erry 20 folx that ask re 'my trb stopped at block B', 19 problem is impatience. 1926112;1564696170;asciilifeform;!Q later tell mod6 is something wedging your conveyor re eating patches ? plz do say. cuz e.g. detruncation is iirc >1y old nao 1926113;1564696180;asciilifeform;grr lobbes bot dead ? 1926114;1564696195;*;asciilifeform brb:teatime 1926115;1564698000;asciilifeform;dorion: [http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1085]['Reorganize() : ConnectBlock failed' is emitted strictly when encountering invalid block.] 1926116;1564698065;dorion;after restarting with -caneat, bitcoind eatblock 588012.blk returns: error: {"code": -2, "message":"Safe mode: WARNING: Displayed transactions may not be correct! You may need to upgrade, or other node may need to upgrade." 1926117;1564698118;dorion;it also returns this on getbalance, listtransaction, etc. 1926118;1564698154;asciilifeform;dorion: nao this is interesting. can you dumblock the last 20 or so and tar'em up, post , plz. 1926119;1564698170;asciilifeform;*dumpblock 1926120;1564698463;asciilifeform;seems like [http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1602][this] is what happens if one [http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1158][terminates a node on even fork-split boundary]. 1926121;1564698514;asciilifeform;dorion: you may have to restart with '-disablesafemode' flag, to resume sync. 1926122;1564698518;asciilifeform;and it may take a while. 1926123;1564698560;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje et al : ^ pretty nasty , surprised no one has observed this effect before. 1926124;1564698663;asciilifeform;at this pt, seems quite evident that someone is throwing around crafted wedge chains (i.e. mined after-the-fact , with backdated timestamp, going from older block) specifically to wedge syncing folx. 1926125;1564698844;asciilifeform;if mod6 had the detruncation and the 'who-gave' patches in the flagship tree, we could even potentially find out who... 1926126;1564698904;asciilifeform;for ref: [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855565]['who-gave' patch.] 1926127;1564698904;a111;Logged on 2018-09-29 22:11 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers!!! http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000312.html << . 1926128;1564699150;asciilifeform;dorion: you will have to show your [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1926093][local modification] if you want to be 100% certain wtf yer node is doing. 1926129;1564699150;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 21:01 dorion: I have a trb node pressed to asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks.vpatch plus a local modification to add a new rpc. This node was was fully synced for a couple days, but has failed to verify block 588012. 1926130;1564699323;asciilifeform;and hey jurov, can i persuade you to update http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/ to contain the latest flagship tree plz ? 1926131;1564699357;asciilifeform;( as it is, 99% of threads are served by the older snapshot, cuz they concern very basic mechanisms -- but the line #s are liable to be off ) 1926132;1564699680;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1926113 << hopefully will return soon (TM) >> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925915 1926133;1564699680;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 21:49 asciilifeform: grr lobbes bot dead ? 1926134;1564699680;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 12:41 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: re: lobbesbot. The heathen VPS it is hosted on is migrating their servers. Hopefully will be back online in 24 hours (I didn't want 100% of my stuff on Pizarro; potential central point of failure and all) 1926135;1564699737;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1926136;1564699777;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/dnc-loses-2016-hack-related-racketeering-suit/ << Qntra -- DNC Loses 2016 Hack Related Racketeering Suit 1926137;1564701476;mod6;Hey there 1926138;1564701753;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1926112 << These go back to [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-24#1924436][this], I did test those ones when they came in. iirc they did work alright when I tested them. I stopped adding these items to the working vtree (SHA512) when mircea_popescu said, and instead started working towards getting the keccak vtree built & then getting it onto cuntoo. Figured once there & stab 1926139;1564701753;a111;Logged on 2019-08-01 21:49 asciilifeform: !Q later tell mod6 is something wedging your conveyor re eating patches ? plz do say. cuz e.g. detruncation is iirc >1y old nao 1926140;1564701753;a111;Logged on 2019-07-24 00:56 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923606 << This is a neat-o vpatch [http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000312.html]['who gave'], but it came in just after the 'NO NEW WORK IN SHA PLOX'; so there are a few like this that probably will go into TRB main Vtree once the Lordship reviews/audits the proposed Keccak TRB Vtree; perhaps possibly after TRB has a new home OS/environment. 1926141;1564701759;mod6;le, could begin retroactively testing & adding these older submissions into the tree. 1926142;1564701865;mod6;I've been pondering mircea_popescu's [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-24#1924467][reponse] to the above link since the statement was made. I'm not sure how I went wrong here, but not adding to the existing SHA512 vtree is what I understood my instructions to be. 1926143;1564701924;mod6;I think my head must be broken, because the stress of making a decision wrong is paralyzing. 1926144;1564702131;mod6;It seems like Mr. Popescu feels the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-29#1925416][same way]. That I should be drummed out. We've known each other (all of us) for quite some time now. And I don't want to be a "problem" or "idjit" or whatever. Mainly, I don't want to force you all to kick me out. 1926145;1564702136;mod6;Or tell me to leave. 1926146;1564702259;mod6;So I should just do this on my own accord. Shall we make some arragements for someone to take over the Foundation? How can we go about this. I want to see TMSR~/The Foundation/Pizzaro succeed. Even if that means that I'm not a part of these any longer. 1926147;1564702394;mod6;This year, I've done what I could with the time I have available, which, indeed, is far less time than I've had in say, '11-'16. I know I haven't produced as much as I would like this year, especially in July. I've had so much secular stuff come up, my head is spinning. But reality is, I barely have enough time to keep up with the logs. 1926148;1564702409;mod6;TMSR~/The Foundation/Pizarro deserve better. 1926149;1564702606;mod6;Heck, for what its worth, I know that there has been some talk about reorganziation of Pizarro's roles/responsibilities since after this latest round, that if I'm causing strife/headaches, I'd even be willing to split my shares between BingoBoingo and asciilifeform, and you guys can continue one. 1926150;1564702624;mod6;s/one/on/ 1926151;1564702699;mod6;But all of this has beaten me down. I've been trying to soldier on this year, being productive, helpful. But it's not working out, is it? 1926152;1564702832;mod6;Like I said earlier this year, I do care about my wot-rating, so I don't want to damage that. Let's discuss/work together to help me move on from these things. 1926153;1564702878;mod6;I've got to stop moving for a minute and eat something, and then write up a basic nothing-burger of a foundation report. I'll be back around in a bit. 1926154;1564707330;asciilifeform;* a111 has quit (Quit: ...) << ! 1926155;1564708589;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes ( or trinque , plox to whisper in his ear ) : phf might be dead, but afaik you aint! where is the genesis of yer www log front end ? why are we down to ONE half-maintained log bot ? does asciilifeform have to drop errything and try an' bake a logger ? why ? 1926156;1564709144;asciilifeform;ftr asciilifeform is sewing a constant-time keccak so that peh can [http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2019-7-29#475272][rsa in battlefield]. is someone gonna do this in my place, so i can write www log ?? 1926157;1564709396;asciilifeform;and, the other q, is writing log www somehow lethally dangerous work ?! kako wrote -- succumbed to brain fungus. Framedragger -- succumbed. phf -- ditto. ben_vulpes -- ???! 1926158;1564709427;asciilifeform;what the fuck is the common thread there?! 1926159;1564712266;mod6;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2019-August/000335.html << Here's The Foundation report for July. 1926160;1564712443;mod6;Ah, jeeze. mircea_popescu isn't here is he. 1926161;1564712670;mod6;!Q later tell mp_en_viaje http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OmWqw/?raw=true << Saw the logger died and you were not in-chan. 1926162;1564726195;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1926141 << understand, the relationship is not symmetrical. this "mod6 isn't building off what mp says, just says his own things" thing you're trying will not work out any better for you than it worked every other time someone else tried it before. i get that the self-feeling of specialness is the core and root of all hominids, but that doesn't promise it also does something outside the skull. se 1926163;1564726195;mp_en_viaje;lf-soothing as it may be. 1926164;1564726217;mp_en_viaje;you're currently in this position where you've neither done anything useful nor said anything intelligent in years ; and i will send you packing the next time this comes around. 1926165;1564726230;mp_en_viaje;derping about "as if you believed otherwise" is not a workable strategu. 1926166;1564726298;mp_en_viaje;if you don't know what you should be doing, you don't belong here. if you do know what you should be doing, start fucking doing it already. 1926167;1564726440;mp_en_viaje;o look at that, phf logger also quit sometime last night. hey! 1926168;1564726505;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2019-8-2#475987 << actually atm i'm stuck reading bv's logotron, because guess what! 1926169;1564726543;mp_en_viaje;oh, and hm, wtf, this has no readouts. 1926170;1564726584;mp_en_viaje;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20190626/#101 << scriba ended logging on the 26th, so that's not useful either 1926171;1564726584;scriba;Logged on 2019-06-26: [17:45:27] iirc there exists a 'fetish' set who dream of... being eaten by cannibals. i never grasped exactly how this worx, psychologically, but entirely possib that 'is proof of my deliciousness!' 1926172;1564726699;mp_en_viaje;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/07/time-estimation-for-logotron-based-off-of-logbot-august-18th/ << i guess we're stuck with this. 1926173;1564726745;mp_en_viaje;btw lobbes for some reason your root (http://lobbesblog.com/) doesn't load. 1926174;1564726937;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2019-8-2#475954 << this has been ongoing for a while 1926175;1564726944;mp_en_viaje;also, this newmode of idiocy does not in fact work. 1926176;1564727003;mp_en_viaje;i will be setting the #trilema channel to silence until we actually have working logs ; which is hopefully mid august. this situation where there's a single logger that's even still going coincidentally, perhaps because maintainer was so deeply unreachable others couldn't even reach out to sync downtime is too much to paper over. 1926177;1564727032;mp_en_viaje;in the meantime, everyone's invited on trilema & other blogs. 1926178;1564727084;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/holy-shit-music-videos/ << Trilema -- Holy shit, music videos 1926179;1565290937;mircea_popescu;dun dun dun. 1926180;1565290937;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: Sent 2 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, and 14 minutes ago: remember you wanted to !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 1926181;1565290979;mircea_popescu;damn. i'm not gonna do that now wth. 1926182;1565290984;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu 1926183;1565290991;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you voice the thing , it'll echo 1926184;1565291004;mircea_popescu;one sec let me figure out how the fuck you handle the autovoice lists 1926185;1565291109;mircea_popescu;poor guy. 1926186;1565291363;asciilifeform;!qhelp 1926187;1565291364;snsabot;asciilifeform: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime 1926188;1565291375;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926179 1926189;1565291376;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 15:43:31 mircea_popescu: dun dun dun. 1926190;1565291379;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu ^ worx 1926191;1565291385;mircea_popescu;i don't fucking get it though. how the fuck do lobbesbot and scriba have voice ? 1926192;1565291394;mircea_popescu;they're not autovoiced, did deedbot give it to them ? 1926193;1565291398;asciilifeform;gotta ask'em 1926194;1565291407;mircea_popescu;can you grep your log see plox ? 1926195;1565291433;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: deedbot gave 'em voice 1926196;1565291437;asciilifeform;* lobbesbot (~limnoria@104.244.76.215) has joined #trilema 1926197;1565291437;asciilifeform;* deedbot gives voice to lobbesbot 1926198;1565291449;mircea_popescu;soooo.... lobbes knows how to do this rsa thing huh 1926199;1565291451;asciilifeform;so, hm, loox like he has gpgism ? or, did trinque have speshulcase table 1926200;1565291453;mircea_popescu;props lobbes. 1926201;1565291460;asciilifeform;lessee what he says 1926202;1565291479;mircea_popescu;aite, im not gonna add auctionbot and lobbesbot to +V list then, because they're like... the only bots that don't suck ? 1926203;1565291544;mircea_popescu;blessed be the innocent, they don't even know what happened lolz. 1926204;1565291566;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: more interestingly, asciilifeform found that he has py-de-gpgation thing already lying around from when wrote snsa-shop telecontroller. so actually can bolt it on. would rather genesis current ver 1st tho. 1926205;1565291579;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, sure. 1926206;1565291613;asciilifeform;!q src 1926207;1565291613;snsabot;asciilifeform: my source code can be seen at: http://not.yet 1926208;1565291618;asciilifeform;^ will point to vpatch... 1926209;1565291632;mircea_popescu;nice! 1926210;1565291658;mircea_popescu;alrighty, looks like http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/ is now undone. welcome back everyone! 1926211;1565291685;*;asciilifeform pleased to be back on the air ! 1926212;1565291687;mircea_popescu;is there more stuff i need to do while op'd actually ? 1926213;1565291714;PeterL;good to see things back up and running! 1926214;1565291718;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: maybe add the logger www to banner ? if you feel like 1926215;1565291757;asciilifeform;PeterL: there's still coupla missing knobs in www logotron (quoted strings for search; pagination for same; backlinkage) 1926216;1565291764;mircea_popescu;hey BingoBoingo now that i can drop it in, do you recall the lafond article [http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-bad-at-math-adnotated/#footnote_6_86826][in question] ? i remember fucking reading it, but i can't find it again ;/ 1926217;1565291783;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, actually, ima edit the join message. 1926218;1565291790;asciilifeform;worx 1926219;1565291802;mircea_popescu;-ChanServ- [#trilema] To speak in #trilema you must be voiced. If you have a RSA key registered with deedbot, send !!up to it in a private message, decrypt the challenge string and return it with !!v ; else politely ask one of the voiced people to voice you. << meanwhile became total bs. 1926220;1565291829;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lemme know if you want the clock fiddled, i think it's gmt right nao 1926221;1565291845;mircea_popescu;i dun care tbh. i move too much anyway 1926222;1565291884;asciilifeform;aite then! 1926223;1565291919;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: https://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=4309 1926224;1565291926;asciilifeform;re [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130823][ mircea_popescu's postmortem ] -- perhaps phf still in bed half-dead, but wtf was errybody else's excuse. 1926225;1565291976;mircea_popescu; /msg ChanServ SET #trilema ENTRYMSG To speak here you must be voiced by one of the lords. Talk to asciilifeform , BingoBoingo , diana_coman , hanbot , trinque 1926226;1565291987;mircea_popescu;^ anyone else actively maintaining a castle i forgot in the list ? 1926227;1565292000;mircea_popescu;or anyone want off it ? 1926228;1565292000;asciilifeform;would say mod6 but dunno if 'active' 1926229;1565292013;mircea_popescu;i wouldn't send anyone to learn from mod6 as things stand. 1926230;1565292019;asciilifeform;fwiw i left him out of the init roster. if he comes back to life will consider to add 1926231;1565292036;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu lemme know at any pt if you want chans in there (i think i got all the currently alive people) 1926232;1565292047;mircea_popescu;chans huh ? 1926233;1565292058;mircea_popescu;oh, added to logger ? #eulora plox 1926234;1565292058;PeterL;maybe point to the castles? (Bingoboingo at #pizarro, etc) but that might make the message too long? 1926235;1565292059;asciilifeform;iirc there was >1 eulora ? (eulora-debug) or sumthing 1926236;1565292073;mircea_popescu;i dunno, i only read this and #eulora lolz 1926237;1565292079;asciilifeform;then i think we're current 1926238;1565292088;mircea_popescu;PeterL, let the lord make that call i think. 1926239;1565292135;PeterL;yeah, I guess if somebody messages you then you can just say "talk to me in #whatever" 1926240;1565292143;mircea_popescu;yes. or not. 1926241;1565292244;asciilifeform;nao in re mechanicals -- bot is written from 0 using bare sockets. www end and bot eat a common config, there are nomoar 'magic' constants in the proggy. so it will be pretty simple to set up mirrors after genesis, if anyone is up to it 1926242;1565292262;asciilifeform;also all of this wasn't particularly hard, lobbes gave up imho too quickly. 1926243;1565292263;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926179 << ok well, this seems to be back then. #trilema is again in session, hear ye hear ye, all pleas will be heard and all claims will be settled. speak your mind, we're back in business. 1926244;1565292263;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 15:43:31 mircea_popescu: dun dun dun. 1926245;1565292352;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, pretty cool. 1926246;1565292406;asciilifeform;[http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ka0sn/?raw=true][pre-gen. sneakpeak of botism.] 1926247;1565292417;asciilifeform;which reminds me, another phfism i gotta clone, that paste-stasher 1926248;1565292434;mircea_popescu;yes, that's quite useful. 1926249;1565292556;asciilifeform;i cannot resist to ask, where the everliving fuck was trinque during all of this. 1926250;1565292572;asciilifeform;( if let's say i needed to move a coin, would have moved ? or also out to lunch ) 1926251;1565292590;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, also, [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130489][the gfx] part plox. 1926252;1565292602;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, one way to find out. 1926253;1565292617;mircea_popescu;afaik he never was more than a day or so moving coin. 1926254;1565292622;mircea_popescu;which was the original spec. 1926255;1565292647;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: after genesis will be pretty easy to stand up local copy. so in fact if you like can set the colours in person and vpatch, i will read, sign, upload to dulap.. 1926256;1565292679;mircea_popescu;i guess there's no way i can wiggle out of this, is there 1926257;1565292701;mircea_popescu;i guess we find out if i can vpatch while traveling. 1926258;1565292715;asciilifeform;well can also do like we did FG site and mircea_popescu write 'hey make the grey deeper' and then asciilifeform goes an' turns knob. but, will take longer i expect. 1926259;1565292741;mircea_popescu;do you realise every time i do a keyop it's ~half hour of slavegirl time going blind on asciisoup ? 1926260;1565292763;asciilifeform;sorta how i pictured it, yes 1926261;1565292775;mircea_popescu;i mean yes i got multiples, and the flesh is willing... but my spirit's weak, i confess i kinda like them. 1926262;1565292883;asciilifeform;this is potentially solvable , if not 'by next week', [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-29#1925510][see also] 1926263;1565292884;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-29 10:21:41 asciilifeform: dun have to be [http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-02#1664464][much bigger than fg per se], really. 1926264;1565292884;a111;Logged on 2017-06-02 03:21 asciilifeform: meanwhile!! http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/cagetest/1.jpg , http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/cagetest/2.jpg 1926265;1565292939;mircea_popescu;yea ; or i could've jus ttaken ocr guns along. but somehow i was naive, the romanticism of the idea appealed at the onset. 1926266;1565292964;mircea_popescu;ohai diana_coman 1926267;1565292975;*;asciilifeform blows dust off crate of chinese ocr modules he was evaluating in '17 for such use 1926268;1565292983;asciilifeform;wb diana_coman 1926269;1565293003;mircea_popescu;i have working ocrtron, just, didn't pack it. already diana ross over here, 200+lbs of shit. 1926270;1565293025;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: these were pcb-mounted things, for potential inclusion in larger device. 1926271;1565293030;asciilifeform;about 30gram ea. 1926272;1565293033;mircea_popescu;every time girls start unloading bags airline checkin woman's eyes widen 1926273;1565293038;diana_coman;yeee, feels good to be back! 1926274;1565293067;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, oh oh. mine are the actual guns. i dunno, not THAT heavy, more bulky i guess. and rigid and so on. i should get newer, but then can you trust newer hardware ? 1926275;1565293113;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, do we run a logger on minigame servers btw ? or no webserver keks 1926276;1565293150;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, is there any mutualization in the end, or not yet ? imo one massive win would be for loggers to put out ~signed~ dumps so they can mutually sync 1926277;1565293181;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not easy to picture how might fuck up ocr pistol, but i suppose not impossible 1926278;1565293212;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have a half-written 'raw csv' shitter knob, won't make it into genesis but prolly will be among 1st patches afte 1926279;1565293212;asciilifeform;r 1926280;1565293215;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, items from the 80s, reliable, because back then um process. items from 2010s, who the fuck knows what ic is in there and what it does / 1926281;1565293237;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i had nfi 'qr' even existed in '80s 1926282;1565293239;asciilifeform;who made this ? 1926283;1565293249;asciilifeform;or is it plain barcode eater ? 1926284;1565293251;mircea_popescu;yup. 1926285;1565293330;mircea_popescu;apparently can't find online. japanese thing, white plastic, squarish 1926286;1565293344;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re synced-loggers -- i sat for whole day thinking about this, but in the end came to same conclusion as mircea_popescu , i.e. that it is moar complicated than appears, fleanode will liberally reorder lines 1926287;1565293345;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: we don't run a logger; the site is on shared hosting with pizarro 1926288;1565293368;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, i meant, do you think we should 1926289;1565293404;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: something like bitcoin's merkle-style order-indep. hashing would potentially work . but still relies on clock sync, otherwise no 2 boxes have same notion of interval to be hashed 1926290;1565293414;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, yeah, though "more reaearch needed", seems direct stepping stone to gossipd after all. 1926291;1565293422;asciilifeform;would have to, as i understand, dispense with notion of time, and go by '# lines' 1926292;1565293442;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: indeed 1926293;1565293527;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, diana_coman : at the very least, would ~very~ much like there to be at least a 2nd logger, somewhere other than piz, for redundancy 1926294;1565293537;mircea_popescu;is the nsa one on piz ? 1926295;1565293543;asciilifeform;( phf's still worx, but i have nfi whether will for how long ) 1926296;1565293543;mircea_popescu;doh, of course it is. 1926297;1565293546;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it lives on dulap 1926298;1565293571;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: hm; the chan is meant to be official rather than community (like eulorum) so I suppose at some point we should, shouldn't we; 1926299;1565293584;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and incidentally frontend is based on ye olde phuctor's 1926300;1565293597;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, conceivably. besides, he has a point, not bad to have another one. 1926301;1565293606;mircea_popescu;though in fact not that great if all on pizarro either 1926302;1565293617;diana_coman;well, I surely plan to run another bot myself, yes 1926303;1565293629;mircea_popescu;where ? 1926304;1565293669;asciilifeform;btw here's a headache : seems like fleanode dun support hashed pw. at all. 1926305;1565293678;asciilifeform;it's either sslism or plaintext 'errybody in same cage sees' 1926306;1565293680;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, ssl keks 1926307;1565293684;asciilifeform;current bot -- the latter 1926308;1565293709;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, honestly i wouldn't worry about this, let's see who steals it. 1926309;1565293721;asciilifeform;theoretically can sit it down behind znc, and run sslism to fleanode, but i fuckinhate sslism 1926310;1565293729;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: no idea yet; and on one hand there's merit to "other than pizarro" but onth ugh where "other" 1926311;1565293737;mircea_popescu;as crazy joe davola once said, "i like to encourage intruders" 1926312;1565293743;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, aha. 1926313;1565293747;mircea_popescu;we consider this. 1926314;1565293774;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, incidentally, you ever saw eg http://trilema.com/2012/activitatea-utilizatorilor-pe-fain/ ? 1926315;1565293783;asciilifeform;for instance right nao anyone leasing a box on piz, can hear the pw 1926316;1565293789;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not seen, iirc 1926317;1565293798;diana_coman;tbh I also don't quite grok what's the status re irc as there was the plan to move and so on 1926318;1565293805;mircea_popescu;it's a data visualization, back then i ran a ro digg ; that's users / activity. 1926319;1565293824;mircea_popescu;it might be nice, have something like that for loggers, you know. though i dun specifically know what. 1926320;1565293827;asciilifeform;i recall the 'ro digg' aha 1926321;1565293837;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: phf's had the activity graph. i did not clone it 1926322;1565293842;asciilifeform;cuz never found it esp. useful 1926323;1565293847;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, the plan was to first federate, then move. we're not progressing re federation. 1926324;1565293847;asciilifeform;but theoretically can be made 1926325;1565293874;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, i asked for it ; and then i didn't find it that useful either. i'm guessing i just don't understand what wuld be useful exactly. 1926326;1565293896;asciilifeform;the beauty of 'publish the fucking src' is that in principle can then add knobs. 1926327;1565293907;mircea_popescu;quite so. 1926328;1565293924;mircea_popescu;ima have to train myself into comprehension that indeed, we've finally come to sanity, can now add knobsd. 1926329;1565293933;asciilifeform;right nao i have 1 knob that phf did not, the activity ticker on top of page 1926330;1565293943;asciilifeform;tells you when was last line spoken (clickable, will go to it) 1926331;1565293943;mircea_popescu;yeah, pretty cool 1926332;1565293977;asciilifeform;( atm if <1min ago, says nuffin. prolly oughta put in a 'now' etc ) 1926333;1565294001;mircea_popescu;i guess so yeah. 1926334;1565294019;mircea_popescu;ahh, it's so nice to be back! 1926335;1565294039;asciilifeform;( rationale was, there are chans where folx speak erry coupla days or so, and handy to be able to jump back immediately w/out flipping pages ) 1926336;1565294070;mircea_popescu;quite. 1926337;1565294071;diana_coman;fwiw I noticed and very much liked that knob, asciilifeform ! 1926338;1565294096;asciilifeform;yw diana_coman . it is not difficult to add knobs, whole thing is <1000ln. 1926339;1565294116;mircea_popescu;!q help seen 1926340;1565294117;snsabot;mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime 1926341;1565294124;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'seen' dunwork yet 1926342;1565294129;asciilifeform;!qseen asciilifeform 1926343;1565294129;snsabot;asciilifeform: this command is not yet implemented. 1926344;1565294131;mircea_popescu;!q help uptime 1926345;1565294131;snsabot;mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime 1926346;1565294136;asciilifeform;!quptime 1926347;1565294137;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 1h 0m 1926348;1565294145;mircea_popescu;!qhelp uptime 1926349;1565294145;snsabot;mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime 1926350;1565294150;mircea_popescu;!qhelp 1926351;1565294150;snsabot;mircea_popescu: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime 1926352;1565294154;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: think ought to 'per cmd' help eh. 1926353;1565294158;asciilifeform;will go on list. 1926354;1565294170;mircea_popescu;maybe. tnh i dunno. maybe we end up standardizing some kinda help format. 1926355;1565294171;asciilifeform;really oughta, esp. when we get moar cmds 1926356;1565294173;diana_coman;!qhelp uptime 1926357;1565294174;snsabot;diana_coman: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime 1926358;1565294176;mircea_popescu;nfi, and dun wanna dig into it right now 1926359;1565294182;asciilifeform;btw ok to put spaces, 1926360;1565294186;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1926361;1565294186;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 1h 1m 1926362;1565294189;mircea_popescu;nice 1926363;1565294197;mircea_popescu;!qs 1926364;1565294199;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=&chan=trilema][0 results for "" in #trilema] 1926365;1565294205;mircea_popescu;!qs 1 1926366;1565294206;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=1&chan=trilema][0 results for "1" in #trilema] 1926367;1565294209;asciilifeform;tooshort 1926368;1565294211;mircea_popescu;!qs 12 1926369;1565294213;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=12&chan=trilema][0 results for "12" in #trilema] 1926370;1565294216;mircea_popescu;!qs 123 1926371;1565294217;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=123&chan=trilema][564 results for "123" in #trilema] 1926372;1565294220;diana_coman;!q s too short 1926373;1565294222;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=too%20short&chan=trilema][84 results for "too short" in #trilema] 1926374;1565294223;mircea_popescu;!qs the 1926375;1565294225;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=the&chan=trilema][1000 results for "the" in #trilema] 1926376;1565294230;mircea_popescu;capped 1k ? 1926377;1565294237;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ^ is good example, paginator not in there yet 1926378;1565294240;asciilifeform;1000 currently cap. 1926379;1565294248;mircea_popescu;not unreasonable. like google back when it worked. 1926380;1565294261;asciilifeform;i wrote the bot to use the www end's search function, so as to avoid having two duplicated searchtrons in there 1926381;1565294270;asciilifeform;so when changing www search algo, same will apply to bot 1926382;1565294272;mircea_popescu;lol ir curls it ? 1926383;1565294281;asciilifeform;not literally but functionally yes 1926384;1565294290;mircea_popescu;angry. 1926385;1565294291;asciilifeform;(there's no shell callouts) 1926386;1565294345;asciilifeform;the minus is that bot search dunwork if wwwtron is down. ( but why should be down, for more than coupla sec it takes to reset when new ver. phuctor's has not 1ce fallen by itself since last rewrite. ) 1926387;1565294364;mircea_popescu;yeah, kinda curious how this weathers. 1926388;1565294391;asciilifeform;bot is built to cycle through list of irc servers (in our case, fleanode) , if one throws, goes to next 1926389;1565294407;asciilifeform;there is timeout on recv() so 'silent stall' also not wedges bot. at least in theory. 1926390;1565294434;asciilifeform;initially i considered to have two-headed bot, with a slave who is kept around strictly if master falls. but this not implemented yet. 1926391;1565294442;asciilifeform;and prolly not useful when we jump fleanode. 1926392;1565294473;asciilifeform;( idea was, master and slave required to sit on diff. fleanode shitpits at any given time ) 1926393;1565294545;asciilifeform;!q s f:ifeform f:escu trb 1926394;1565294546;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=f%3Aifeform%20f%3Aescu%20trb&chan=trilema][1000 results for "f:ifeform f:escu trb" in #trilema] 1926395;1565294551;mircea_popescu;sounds pretty well designed tbh. 1926396;1565294567;asciilifeform;as well-designed as script proggy gets when written in got it, thank you! and readme seems quite very clear to me 1926581;1565332885;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 22:11:01 asciilifeform: ^ diana_coman et al ^ 1926582;1565332905;diana_coman;I wish though I could actually access your blog from machine-other-than-toilet 1926583;1565332926;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926527 << also jhvh1 and a111 please. and i guess candilust & tb0t eventually, though not yet. oh and "nsabot" is actually "snsabot" for some reason, i guess let's stick to it. 1926584;1565332927;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 21:16:41 lobbes: http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130823 << Seeing as the order was given to strike scriba from the list, I have also removed it from the TMSR bot directory (which means the command prefix "!$" is available again): http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html 1926585;1565332936;diana_coman;is mimisbrunnr also lost at sea? 1926586;1565332956;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, iirc ben_vulpes bot as well 1926587;1565332997;mp_en_viaje;!Qlater tell mircea_popescu remember you wanted to !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 1926588;1565332997;a111;Logged on 2019-07-22 07:35 mp_en_viaje: in other "[http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/][optionality]/[http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/][failure]" lulz, i'm re-reading http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-anjie-well-actually-let-me-do-anjie-while-you-watch/ because i linked it recently because i used a subpoint from it (the thing about STD gender disparity). 1926589;1565332998;lobbesbot;mp_en_viaje: The operation succeeded. 1926590;1565333017;diana_coman;!q seen ben_vulpes 1926591;1565333018;snsabot;diana_coman: this command is not yet implemented. 1926592;1565333022;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, which blog is that ? alf's ? 1926593;1565333026;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: yes 1926594;1565333044;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-03-06#1900781 << last. 1926595;1565333045;snsabot;Logged on 2019-03-06 22:42:48 ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: in theory the logs are endlessly educational! in practice, learning takes practice. 1926596;1565333118;mp_en_viaje;you know alf, !q seen is just http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=f%3Aben_vulpes&chan=trilema 1926597;1565333118;mp_en_viaje;thus !qs f:ben works as well. 1926598;1565333122;mp_en_viaje;!qs f:ben 1926599;1565333123;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=f%3Aben&chan=trilema][1000 results for "f:ben" in #trilema] 1926600;1565333149;diana_coman;5 months of quiet practice sounds almost zen 1926601;1565333212;mp_en_viaje;been a while yea 1926602;1565333235;trinque;lobbes: what bot's key did you have in mind? 1926603;1565333254;trinque;deedbot has no such own key atm. 1926604;1565333330;trinque;diana_coman: saw on a recent post on a blog that you supposed some decay re: the deedbot operator. 1926605;1565333367;trinque;I'm not going to stop operating the services I'm providing any time soon, and I'd inform folks present before doing so. 1926606;1565333389;trinque;handing over feeds was iirc a quite public matter, where spyked picked it up. 1926607;1565333403;trinque;I'll correct the help.html to reflect. 1926608;1565333443;trinque;incidentally I have records of every IRC message deedbot has ever seen. 1926609;1565333449;trinque;if this is interesting to asciilifeform lmk 1926610;1565333480;trinque;personally I've been holding back on doing anything about the state of chats awaiting asciilifeform's crypto platform. 1926611;1565333510;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in inspirational quotes, "Due to financial problems the filming of Eraserhead was haphazard, regularly stopping and starting again." 1926612;1565333510;diana_coman;trinque: cool; and yes, change of feeds was public and I had simply forgotten of it hence went to check the bot's help page. 1926613;1565333510;trinque;if someone this sensible says there exists no reliable basis for crypto dev, what do but await? 1926614;1565333530;mp_en_viaje;i'd very much propose a read of david lynch's biography to all the "oh, i'm unmotivated" middle class dorks. 1926615;1565333558;mp_en_viaje;it ~takes something~, something inside, to be someone. it's not a natural byproduct of tube socks and your mom loving you. 1926616;1565333615;mp_en_viaje;trinque, prolly should publish said records as a "testing harness", so new bots can be tested against ? 1926617;1565333624;trinque;gladly 1926618;1565333633;mp_en_viaje;and if you care, i suspect the quietness of your blog is what's giving people creeps. 1926619;1565333646;mp_en_viaje;publish a breakfast shot sometime. it's so much better than nothing you can't imagine. 1926620;1565333669;mp_en_viaje;i know it ~sounds~ stupid. that's the problem with reality, the fundamentals sound stupid for no reason and shit that sounds smart usually is anything but. 1926621;1565333675;trinque;I suppose I am an extremist and I wouldn't think of ^ by myself 1926622;1565333681;mp_en_viaje;a little bit. 1926623;1565333688;mp_en_viaje;see what i did there ? :D 1926624;1565333694;trinque;sure 1926625;1565333902;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926611 << perfectly reasonable stance ; never seen anything wrong with it (which is also why i never said anything about it). 1926626;1565333903;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:33:07 trinque: if someone this sensible says there exists no reliable basis for crypto dev, what do but await? 1926627;1565334020;mp_en_viaje;only nowadays, with ffa and eucrypt & rest of stuff as they are to provide a basis, im starting talk of things such as http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130709 1926628;1565334033;mp_en_viaje;we'll of course have to lock down a format for it, too. 1926629;1565334061;mp_en_viaje;but prolly before the end of the year we'll be wanting you to do that double-otp thing. that work ? 1926630;1565334076;trinque;if this is becoming a reality, I am present for the transition to in-wot crypto, by god. 1926631;1565334090;mp_en_viaje;will be fucking nice, that's for sure. 1926632;1565334105;mp_en_viaje;GET RID OF HARDCODED LINE FEEDS HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONGGGGG with people!!! 1926633;1565334152;trinque;just the fucking mind-rape of using computers these days, you know? 1926634;1565334175;mp_en_viaje;tell hanbot about it, i got her a t450 two days ago, she's ~still~ working on it. 1926635;1565334180;trinque;the only reason to get on one is a republican reason. 1926636;1565334207;mp_en_viaje;i give it even odds ima walk into kitchen one day find it boiling peacibly on stove. 1926637;1565334214;trinque;I'll fucking use their prebaked turd, or something fundamently not, but no incrementals ever again. 1926638;1565334221;trinque;but see above re: extremism 1926639;1565334228;trinque;it's a boiling fucking hatred. 1926640;1565334252;mp_en_viaje;i think you're exagerating, esp re your view of cuntoo work & effects. 1926641;1565334272;trinque;ha, I was just writing a few lines re: cuntoo 1926642;1565334278;mp_en_viaje;it's absolutely not nearly as bad as it could be theoretically construed, which is still in from where i suspect you're pegging it atm. 1926643;1565334289;trinque;behold mp_en_viaje, I have brought you a particular arrangement of dorkly turds. 1926644;1565334378;trinque;this is like, ok, who is making intelligible calculators atm. 1926645;1565334385;trinque;asciilifeform: what would it take to bake some peh? 1926646;1565334398;mp_en_viaje;an underlying os, is the problem 1926647;1565334408;mp_en_viaje;kinda why he wanted mips : could bake mips-peh-asic on the cheap atm. 1926648;1565334534;trinque;isn't this what the republic needs, the place to talk that's intentionally constructed? 1926649;1565334543;trinque;how much hardware does it cost to choose whom to talk to 1926650;1565334577;mp_en_viaje;it's complicated ; language being its own essence imposes all sorts of curliques downstream. 1926651;1565334703;mp_en_viaje;trinque, what happened to bv anyway ? you two still in touch at all ? 1926652;1565334755;trinque;I think he wanted to do more, and so I. 1926653;1565334777;trinque;we're struggling up into the money machine, and it has its costs. 1926654;1565334787;trinque;I don't perceive an alternative. 1926655;1565334811;mp_en_viaje;well, is he ok ? how's texas working out ? same bfast point applies, i actually checked http://cascadianhacker.com/ few times doing darkness week 1926656;1565334903;trinque;he's very well. I'll ask him if he wants to dust off the voice. 1926657;1565334934;trinque;I don't for the record know what I'd say, cognizant that I ought to say. 1926658;1565334958;mp_en_viaje;while in kiev i met this brit (at the time masquerading as this local girl's sub, but w/e). as a joke, socially, i said i'm the most pretentious guy you'll ever meet, and when he asked for sauce i told him it says so right on my own blog. he found this a most excellent bon mot, "oh, that's perfect, you webpage nobody reads, not like the telegraph or something". 1926659;1565334990;*;diana_coman read "this brat" 1926660;1565334991;mp_en_viaje;there's this default idea in the general populace, that a) somebody reads the raped-and-left-for-dead husks of ye olde gatekeepers and that b) it's still myspace days on internet, nobody reads "your webpage" 1926661;1565335024;mp_en_viaje;this is utterly fucking false, of course. the telegraph doesn't get in a month the daily readership of trilema. but i think the ~pervasiveness~ of the antiquated, and mistaken, worldview may rub off on people. 1926662;1565335030;trinque;mp_en_viaje: if you were just cresting 7 fig in 2019 what would you throw yourself into? 1926663;1565335034;mp_en_viaje;so he sits and thinks "oh, nobody reads my blog". which is false. 1926664;1565335056;trinque;as for me, I find myself in a mostly unintelligible froth of nonsense 1926665;1565335068;mp_en_viaje;trinque, understand the following points : 1926666;1565335119;mp_en_viaje;1) i am an utterly TERRIBLE font of advice re business. i made oddles of money in SUCH improbable, unlikely venues and circumstances -- admittedly, regularly, multiply, repeadedly, but SO FUCKING UNLIKELY -- i dare not presume what works for me works in any meaningful sense. 1926667;1565335151;mp_en_viaje;i don't mind saying, but keep in mind you're doing the equiv of asking columbus things about finding new continents. he ~doesn't know~. irrespective of what data may suggest, he was just there coincidentally, at right time. 1926668;1565335180;trinque;I'm much more faces plus walls and pain tolerance. 1926669;1565335226;mp_en_viaje;2) i never made money, i always made power. the money was coincidental. i never made all the money there was to make or could. nor did i ever give much of a shit, i'm utterly not constructive, a world of nothing but mp will burn down. 1926670;1565335253;trinque;and yet the republic is not nonsense. 1926671;1565335260;trinque;which is just utterly wtf from the outside. 1926672;1565335282;mp_en_viaje;3) the whole of it was always hanging out with the cool people. i don't mean, "cool", as in, swag. i mean cool as in david lynch quote above, dork bought a 12 room house for $3500 in th worst gangland he could find for his wife and newborn kid and lived there, "the fear was palpable" 1926673;1565335285;mp_en_viaje;that's my idea of cool. 1926674;1565335322;mp_en_viaje;now given 1-2-3, what can i answer for you ? 1926675;1565335338;trinque;nothing man, so I hope you like my cracks about 80s movies 1926676;1565335346;mp_en_viaje;lol. 1926677;1565335352;trinque;because compared to that, it's where I think I stand! 1926678;1565335406;mp_en_viaje;ha 1926679;1565335532;trinque;mine have been cutting deals, not so much raw power. 1926680;1565335540;trinque;do you see this as some kind of innate item, or what 1926681;1565335542;mp_en_viaje;you ever saw city hall ? 1926682;1565335549;trinque;film? no 1926683;1565335691;trinque;this is curious, that "a world of mp will burn down" 1926684;1565335738;trinque;it makes an immediate kind of sense that outside the edifice of meaning you need a destructive process 1926685;1565335749;trinque;because the former naturally grows. 1926686;1565336702;mircea_popescu;you know i suspect i'm being ddosed ? 1926687;1565336702;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: Sent 1 hour and 1 minute ago: remember you wanted to !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 1926688;1565336708;mircea_popescu;anyway, re city hall : it's a collection of platitudes, like any usian "deep" / "philosophical" movie. but it's a collection of ~well chosen~ platitudes, like the better such are, and in it incidentally pacino explains the problem with the dealmaking model : 1926689;1565336708;mircea_popescu;you give out a little bit of yourself each time. and eventually, down the road, after enough dealmaking, you discover there's nothing actually left. this is very much the equivalent of alf's point re "only so many lines of code in one before insanity", except for business people, those who are too dumb to realise it on their own. 1926690;1565336708;mircea_popescu;it's the intrinsic limit on dealmaking, and why the glib narcissist does well there -- very effectually defensive of the self AND not that much there to begin with. because that's always the best kept secret of the well defended fortress -- there wasn't so much inside to begin with. 1926691;1565336862;spyked;good morning! /me is eating last night's logs 1926692;1565337658;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926421 <-- fwiw I personally use CL because it's the lang that allows me to eat most coad/hr; although looking at the [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130686]["cl on pc is a dead end"] thread, I'd throw it away without any remorse were there a "tmsr lang" 1926693;1565337659;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 16:59:01 diana_coman: and ftr I have no idea why did the other bots go for lisp anyway, did I miss somewhere the rationale for it? 1926694;1565337879;spyked;also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet? 1926695;1565338111;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 <-- it does that indeed, as per http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/feedbot/c-feedbot.lisp.html#L8 ; heck I'll set it to 2sec if that guarantees it won't fail; but yeah, fleanode provides no actual guarantees. 1926696;1565338111;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 17:54:51 mircea_popescu: freenode wants 1s delay between msgs, and bot seems to try and do that but maybe add a 50ms buffer on top or somethign ? 1926697;1565338151;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926684 << definitely ; hand cranked, too -- hit mp_en_viaje's last ip when i logged on this one. well, coupla minutes later, anyway. 1926698;1565338152;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:26:19 mircea_popescu: you know i suspect i'm being ddosed ? 1926699;1565338750;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926520 <-- for trilemabot-voicer it works this way: the !!up + decrypt steps are manually operated; then the operator stores the OTPs in a list and the bot automatically !!v's them when it needs to up itself. 1926700;1565338750;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 20:51:45 asciilifeform: lobbes: what means 'not automatic' here ? 1926701;1565339121;diana_coman;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926567 -> inquisitive teenagers age irrespective sounds about right (not that I'd turn out a hard-working, knowledgeable adult bent on doing useful work, age irrespective) 1926702;1565339121;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:06:11 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926225 : hanbot is taking teenaged / twentysomething females meeting [http://trilema.com/2016/pizdi/][the pizdi bill] ; i presume asciilifeform is taking highly intelligent, shy & introverted males age-irrespective, math grad student prototype while diana_coman is taking inquisitive teenagers age irrespective and BingoBoingo latam... fema 1926703;1565339239;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926574 <-- #spyked is currently a drop-in replacement for thetarpit comments (not for long tho, I hope) and a bot testing ground (and possibly a bit noisy because of that). otherwise it's defo open to the lordship and newbs, altho I'm not yet actively doing anything to bring the latter in. I expect there's an overlap between the types that'll pop up in #sp 1926704;1565339240;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:16:10 mp_en_viaje: also spyked, you never said anything re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926226 ; is #spyked something you're serious about or not just yet ? i don't mean to make that call for you by sheer accident. anyone else ? Mocky ? 1926705;1565339245;spyked;yked and #asciilifeform, tho who knows, maybe I'll get surprised. 1926706;1565339305;spyked;speaking of which, asciilifeform, could you bring snsabot in #spyked? wouldn't hurt to have it listening there. 1926707;1565339392;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926681 << simple case of http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-a-final-thought-on-chos-mental-illness-adnotated/#footnote_0_85643 1926708;1565339393;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:09:28 trinque: this is curious, that "a world of mp will burn down" 1926709;1565339393;mircea_popescu;i'm the sort of guy who ~had to think~ school is cool, or else wouldn't have gone. as a nine year old. i'm the sort of guy who told his father where to stick it. as a teen. there's currently a whole regiment of women literally dedicating their life to interfacing as much of the world as possible so i don't start burning it down, because yes, absolutely, the moment i'm not happy with how things are going there i am, jerry c 1926710;1565339393;mircea_popescu;an in one hand and zippo lighter in the other. 1926711;1565339393;mircea_popescu;this is obviously a charicature, for one thing the not giving a shit works both ways, for another i'm getting old, and so following. but i suppose you get the idea -- to borrow alf's metaphore a sackfull of lymphocites ain't getting very far in life. 1926712;1565339456;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926678 << goes right back to "[http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/][when is a bunch no longer a bunch]" discussion. luck is not a property of the lucky, it's a property of the world. 1926713;1565339456;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:06:57 trinque: do you see this as some kind of innate item, or what 1926714;1565339509;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926690 << i suspect there may be fundamental reasons for which there simply can't be such a thing as "a tmsr lang" 1926715;1565339509;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:42:15 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926421 <-- fwiw I personally use CL because it's the lang that allows me to eat most coad/hr; although looking at the [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130686]["cl on pc is a dead end"] thread, I'd throw it away without any remorse were there a "tmsr lang" 1926716;1565339590;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926703 << food for thought, not like there's a rush right nao 1926717;1565339590;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:08:42 spyked: yked and #asciilifeform, tho who knows, maybe I'll get surprised. 1926718;1565339706;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926534 << pretty nifty huh. 1926719;1565339706;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 22:20:15 lobbes: pretty cool asciilifeform. ftr the speed at which you did this blows me away 1926720;1565339747;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926535 << best sorta cheat, for one thing saves you the trouble of genesising those. 1926721;1565339748;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 22:20:39 asciilifeform: lobbes: i 'cheated' by recycling components from front-end of phuctor, admittedly. 1926722;1565339847;mircea_popescu;incidentally, lobbes or billymg i guess -- if either of you feel like futzing with it, having a logger bot that spits out days formatted for mp-wp into MPWP_posts table formatted into a category so one can just plug that into their blog will prolly be fantastic. 1926723;1565339905;diana_coman;at refresh of bot's log page I notice the "snappy but visibly slower than phf's " aspect asciilifeform mentioned 1926724;1565339907;mircea_popescu;someone can then configure a local ~eater~ (taking, eg, bot cvs dumps) and have the logs (of w/e chan interests them) directly on their mp-wp. which means -- including the selection thing etc. 1926725;1565339921;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, i noticed it too, takes a coupla secs for a longer page. 1926726;1565339952;mircea_popescu;what can you do, alf just not as good at computing as phf :D 1926727;1565339966;diana_coman;onth now I still have to figure out where to stand a bot 1926728;1565340662;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926566 << "After pressing you will need to run npm install from the project directory in order to pull down just under 100mb of depshits in order for this to work." top keks. left you a comment, too. 1926729;1565340663;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 01:57:33 billymg: ^ i put together a quick POC for e2e testing on mp-wp. i have to sign off for the night and will be away from my main machine this weekend but will be checking the logs/comments if anyone has any feedback 1926730;1565340976;spyked;mircea_popescu, re. tmsr lang: could be one of two or three (or I dunno how many) langs, as long as tmsr owns 'em. atm there's no genesis for a cl compiler/interpreter (let alone e.g. networking code a la usocket, or a curl etc.), so... inb4 "fuck you spyked, I can't even compile sbcl, how do you want me to stand up your logotron" 1926731;1565340998;mircea_popescu;ah, in that sense, tmsr-owned lang. yes 1926732;1565341011;mircea_popescu;i took it as "one true computer lang", which is iffier. 1926733;1565341079;spyked;ah. yeah, not sure there's such a thing. as asciilifeform pointed out, cl seems to handle string'isms better... and as mircea_popescu pointed out, cl doing tcpisms is not much different from python 1926734;1565341128;mircea_popescu;what's your take on hutchentoot so far btw ? do you like it ? 1926735;1565341564;spyked;mircea_popescu, purely from the user's point of view, it works reliably as far as I can see. and two days ago I wrote a simple mock "comment eater" for thetarpit and was reasonably productive. I haven't found any major flaws yet, so I'll continue working through the code. 1926736;1565341630;mircea_popescu;alrighty. 1926737;1565341649;mircea_popescu;i did say it infuriates me, which it does ; but then again im not using it, so. 1926738;1565341855;spyked;my sense so far is that they (initially?) designed it to be a beast similar to Apache, rather than running behind it. it does multi-threading so it should be able to handle high loads pretty well. so if, say, I snipped the multi-threading bits out, I'd perhaps cut the code in half. 1926739;1565341882;spyked;but I'm not sure that's the right way to go atm 1926740;1565342127;mircea_popescu;high q multithreading is one of the few things cl has arguing for it 1926741;1565342136;mircea_popescu;i wouldn't cut that. 1926742;1565342227;spyked;logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926609 <-- incidentally, I started reviewing twin peaks about a month ago. and the part of it that is soap opera has aged horribly, while the part that is "david lynch mindfuck poetry" I still find brilliant. the man has a way of stirring frustration, I suspect he does it intentionally most of the time 1926743;1565342247;spyked;grr, was re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926609 1926744;1565342247;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:33:06 mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in inspirational quotes, "Due to financial problems the filming of Eraserhead was haphazard, regularly stopping and starting again." 1926745;1565342312;mircea_popescu;whole x-files thing was mostly attempt to live off THAT, much like whole "sopranos" nonsense was trying to live off tarantino's perfect killer, 5 minutes of footage. 1926746;1565342330;mircea_popescu;the obnoxious part is that tarantino didn't get 50% of sopranos income ; nor lynch of xfiles. though THEY WERE OWED 1926747;1565342352;mircea_popescu;seinfeld, meanwhile, DID get ~half of what nbc made off that piece of utter crap. 1926748;1565342364;mircea_popescu;moral hazard of the finest imperial flavour. 1926749;1565342447;spyked;well, if we count the shows that are seinfeld rip-offs (e.g. that charlie sheen thing), maybe not even half. 1926750;1565342470;mircea_popescu;which was that ? 1926751;1565342493;spyked;hm... two and a half men 1926752;1565342499;mircea_popescu;i missed that one. 1926753;1565342613;spyked;I saw a couple of episodes in a weekend (and another couple of "big bang theory") and I got the distinct feeling of "these guys are trying to remake seinfeld with another cast and variations on the ol' premise". i.e. they're not jews in NY, but nerds in LA or something like that 1926754;1565342630;mircea_popescu;anyway. moron jew boy ended up buying a bunch of cars. in new york. that's what he needed a billion dollars for. 1926755;1565342640;mircea_popescu;one can't help but wonder what'd lynch done with a billion. 1926756;1565342788;mircea_popescu;spyked, amusingly, at the time seinfeld ran a bunch of morons were remaking it. "friends" (with that blonde dumb cunt, what's her name). it didn't work even then 1926757;1565342797;mircea_popescu;nobody watched friends you'd want to talk to 1926758;1565343009;spyked;lulz. apparently "friends" is somewhat popular in ro nowadays, there's marathon reruns on tv and I see all these chicks with brand t-shirts on the street... well, I'm assuming they watch it 1926759;1565343051;mircea_popescu;romanians these days... 1926760;1565343063;mircea_popescu;they're about as dumb as the ukrs, honestly. place's so fucked... 1926761;1565343169;spyked;mircea_popescu, it happens that I have a blogpost in the works just on that :D 1926762;1565343176;*;spyked bbl, cotton-bit-picking. 1926763;1565343226;*;mircea_popescu be;lieves. 1926764;1565345644;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926669 << funny hpow that works, huh. 1926765;1565345644;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:02:17 trinque: which is just utterly wtf from the outside. 1926766;1565345786;mircea_popescu;but to answer the orig q : ~i~ would probably go to some kind of pashtun and do the [artefacts trade][http://trilema.com/2012/concurs-de-fictiune/] thing, on the solid backing of imported gold. which is why i suggested qatar to mocky, travel to establish what became pizarro etc. 1926767;1565345788;mircea_popescu;but, again, that's me. 1926768;1565345887;mircea_popescu;not that i invented it, it's what rimbaud did, it's what plenty of people've already done. not usually studied in girl school for girls, but that's entirely a diff story. and no, it doesn't usually work out. 1926769;1565345918;mircea_popescu;the point isn't whether "it works out" ; the point is that no old merchant from the age of sail, successful or otherwise, would've traded his life out for landlubbers'. 1926770;1565345931;mircea_popescu;nor, experimentally, vice-versa. 1926771;1565345993;mircea_popescu;"a thirst for adventure" or how did the golden age rpg story go. a band of misfits with a thirst for adventure. 1926772;1565351554;phf;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926224 << perhaps quarter dead, but days go to going to hospital for daily wounds dressing, sleeping a lot and going for walks, i have another sugery on monday to close me up. 1926773;1565351554;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 16:00:01 asciilifeform: re [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130823][ mircea_popescu's postmortem ] -- perhaps phf still in bed half-dead, but wtf was errybody else's excuse. 1926774;1565351554;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 2 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, and 10 minutes ago: plox to snarf vpatch in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3420 , ty. 1926775;1565351556;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, and 21 minutes ago: will [http://btcbase.org/patches] [patch viewer] ever get [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-24#1924501] [fed] !? and how about [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924232] You've given me 5 invalid commands within the last 60 seconds; I'm now ignoring you for 10 minutes. ?! where didja go, phf ? feeding the fish ? 1926776;1565351564;phf;asciilifeform: i'll genesis you the logger in the next two weeks. i'd rather you not waste time on it though. the design predates castles, so making it multichannel might be excessive amount of work. it's idiosyncratic, a product of the conversations from four years ago. your current approach seems a lot more solid. 1926777;1565351572;phf;there's no need to znc, the entire archive of logs is available here: http://btcbase.org/log-raw/ with 2016-03.txt being the last kako file. the only outlier is tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.txt which is the dump mircea_popescu gave me of the prehistoric logs, which i have a custom reader for. 1926778;1565351579;phf;btcbase will continue running the way it has been so far, and i will continue putting vpatches into patches at least until there's a replacement 1926779;1565351824;lobbes;ah it is good to wake up to logs again 1926780;1565351869;lobbes;phf: the znc eater, if I am corrent in understanding, is for backfilling the other castle logs (#a, #o, #e, etc.) 1926781;1565351877;lobbes;also wb 1926782;1565352131;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926600 << not in my mind; already on my iron. Like I said, it isn't an ideal system (there is a thread somewhere already on this), but both of my bots have their respective (dundundun) private keys sitting on the iron. I issue a command and the bots go and do the decrypting. 1926783;1565352131;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:28:31 trinque: lobbes: what bot's key did you have in mind? 1926784;1565352142;lobbes;In my case, the cost of the iron getting popped and my bots losing their private keys did not seem high (really, I'd just make a new bot key and sign it from mine). Still, as I said, probably not ideal, especially when spyked already has the proper otp solution published. 1926785;1565352339;lobbes;But I'll still make a vpatch after this znc-eating work once I'm done. Should not take long anyways, so why not 1926786;1565353999;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-09#1926545 << python has the advantage that development happens on python 3, so python 2 has become "depcricated" (aka stable) 1926787;1565353999;a111;Logged on 2019-08-09 01:43 asciilifeform expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots 1926788;1565354190;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926582 << a111? I mean, btcbase.org IS still live and loggin'. But okay, done. Call commands "!~" and "!#" available again and directory updated 1926789;1565354191;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:23:23 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926527 << also jhvh1 and a111 please. and i guess candilust & tb0t eventually, though not yet. oh and "nsabot" is actually "snsabot" for some reason, i guess let's stick to it. 1926790;1565354209;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926606 << idk about you, but I have some amusing logs of messages to auctionbot. 1926791;1565354210;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:32:00 trinque: incidentally I have records of every IRC message deedbot has ever seen. 1926792;1565354381;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-09#1000025 1926793;1565354382;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1926794;1565354382;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 00:44:50 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: I can't decrypt the invoice - it is encrypted to a key I don't have. 1926795;1565354589;billymg;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926726 << thanks for looking, i'm about to leave town for a few days but will try to respond on my blog over the weekend 1926796;1565354590;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:32:19 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926566 << "After pressing you will need to run npm install from the project directory in order to pull down just under 100mb of depshits in order for this to work." top keks. left you a comment, too. 1926797;1565354690;PeterL;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926544 << what I was pointing at ^, bot did not read. Is there a reason btcbase and nosuchlabs logs do not cut the day at the same point? 1926798;1565354691;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 22:24:24 asciilifeform: expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots 1926799;1565360546;asciilifeform;PeterL: clocks. 1926800;1565360595;asciilifeform;hrm anybody else see that spurious 0x01 ? 1926801;1565360598;asciilifeform;or just in my client 1926802;1565360650;asciilifeform;incidentally this is yet another weakness of pythonism. the utf8 support is a voodoo incantation and does whothefuckknows what. 1926803;1565360711;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926567 << in practice asciilifeform will work with anyone who has hands growing from the right organ; but the folx mircea_popescu described are more likely to end up in #a, i suspect indeed 1926804;1565360712;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:06:11 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926225 : hanbot is taking teenaged / twentysomething females meeting [http://trilema.com/2016/pizdi/][the pizdi bill] ; i presume asciilifeform is taking highly intelligent, shy & introverted males age-irrespective, math grad student prototype while diana_coman is taking inquisitive teenagers age irrespective and BingoBoingo latam... fema 1926805;1565360753;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926571 << will show [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][correct link] when the bot is next reset. 1926806;1565360754;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:09:22 mp_en_viaje: !qsrc 1926807;1565360757;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1926808;1565360758;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 0d 19h 31m 1926809;1565360792;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926578 << this sounds workable 1926810;1565360792;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:21:27 mp_en_viaje: (idea is, you !!v a buncha times and safely decrypt, then store the otps use as needed. this was discussed years ago, it's good cuz it don't expose the keys on bot's iron) 1926811;1565360890;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926581 << i'ma guess the dynamic ip thing is the headache there. i'ma [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-19#1923812][be moving the www soon], tho. as soon as i figure out [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-18#1923439][to where]... 1926812;1565360890;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:23:02 diana_coman: I wish though I could actually access your blog from machine-other-than-toilet 1926813;1565360891;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-19 16:57:44 asciilifeform: peeks at the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923443][nfs forum] crapola; nao with 'nya-nya' from peanut gallery, bonus. 1926814;1565360891;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-18 21:34:14 asciilifeform: reluctant to move www to piz, it's a fairly high traffic item, possibly adds up to half a trilema's (complete with regular ddosism) 1926815;1565360920;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926582 << someone squatted nick 'nsabot' on fleanode. 1926816;1565360920;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:23:23 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926527 << also jhvh1 and a111 please. and i guess candilust & tb0t eventually, though not yet. oh and "nsabot" is actually "snsabot" for some reason, i guess let's stick to it. 1926817;1565360923;diana_coman;asciilifeform: yes, the dynamic ip seems to be the headache there indeed 1926818;1565360939;asciilifeform;aha 1926819;1565360964;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926594 << right. will prolly end up doing just as i did with search knob, 'syntactic sugar' 1926820;1565360964;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:26:35 mp_en_viaje: you know alf, !q seen is just http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=f%3Aben_vulpes&chan=trilema 1926821;1565361016;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926606 << wb trinque ! and yes, potentially useful, the moar the merrier, to fill whatever gaps in archive 1926822;1565361017;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:32:00 trinque: incidentally I have records of every IRC message deedbot has ever seen. 1926823;1565361072;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926616 << asciilifeform for one would defo enjoy to read trinque's adventures in petro biz or where it is that he's adventuring 1926824;1565361073;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:35:10 mp_en_viaje: and if you care, i suspect the quietness of your blog is what's giving people creeps. 1926825;1565361125;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926643 << possibly oughta elaborate ? 1926826;1565361126;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:47:42 trinque: asciilifeform: what would it take to bake some peh? 1926827;1565361203;diana_coman;asciilifeform: my q (if perhaps different from trinque's) is what would it take to have peh-iron? 1926828;1565361211;asciilifeform;aaah 1926829;1565361219;asciilifeform;was just about to answr 1926830;1565361314;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926645 << if were actually 'cheap', already would have baked. possibly i did not explain the subj properly. mips is 'cheap' in terms of ~time~ , it is a classic and very compact design with existing compiler support. but to bake physical asic (on practical scale, rather than 'here's 5 dies that maybe-work for 5k ea. and we hope you know how to solder gold wire under microscope' -- re 1926831;1565361314;asciilifeform;mains outside of asciilifeform's lunch money budget ) 1926832;1565361314;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:48:05 mp_en_viaje: kinda why he wanted mips : could bake mips-peh-asic on the cheap atm. 1926833;1565361427;asciilifeform;diana_coman: depending on meaning of 'peh iron', could be quite inexpensive ( e.g. to plant it on commonplace battery-powered item, e.g. pic32mz, is entirely possib. ). but possibly this is not what diana_coman was thinking of, but instead the full orchestra where e.g. 4096b multiplier for fast rsa ? 1926834;1565361584;asciilifeform;the former would cost like FG; the latter... erry year or so i go an' dig, so far to end up [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-11-30#1877111][empty-handed] 1926835;1565361585;snsabot;Logged on 2018-11-30 20:41:34 asciilifeform: last yr ( and before ) i talked to a coupla ic fabs, in various countries. they all not only run winshit but demand that you use their 'standard cells', which available (surprise?) under nda 1926836;1565361674;diana_coman;asciilifeform: the main issue is that I'd much rather run peh not-on-pc, pretty much 1926837;1565361703;asciilifeform;diana_coman: one painful way in which ic fab differs from softwarisms is that failure is ~very~ expensive. buggy proggy you can throw away, you lost a day or however long it took to write. buggy ic is a coupla 100k (usabux) in the hole. 1926838;1565361777;asciilifeform;diana_coman: peh-on-batteries is defo part of the planned sequence. (last ch! in fact.) 1926839;1565361803;diana_coman;I still need to run tests and timings re "fast" but as a principle, it's not the first requirement (rsa is not for speed anyway) 1926840;1565361819;asciilifeform;but, naturally can expect that will run considerably slower than on pc. (my current estimate, factor of 30 or so, on the extant chips) 1926841;1565361885;diana_coman;well, looking forward to see it and time it 1926842;1565361937;asciilifeform;diana_coman: whole story of how asciilifeform ended up with peh , if you recall, at one pt asciilifeform wanted to bake a battery-powered 'gpg replacement'. then went and saw what gpg actually consisted of, and found that not only koch liquishit, but broken on ~algo~ level 1926843;1565361991;asciilifeform;(i.e. whatever one might plug 'battery gpg' into, could trivially extract privkey via timing side channel) 1926844;1565362088;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926651 << i wish trinque and ben_vulpes to have moar luck than i, with this scheme ( asciilifeform went ~twice~, both times lost shirt. ) 1926845;1565362089;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:54:14 trinque: we're struggling up into the money machine, and it has its costs. 1926846;1565362329;*;asciilifeform will eat remaining log (heavy!) after tea; brb 1926847;1565363503;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/09a-maramures.html << The Tar Pit -- Maramure 1926848;1565365757;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926664 << there is however pasteur's infamous 'luck favours the prepared'. 1926849;1565365757;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:59:56 mp_en_viaje: 1) i am an utterly TERRIBLE font of advice re business. i made oddles of money in SUCH improbable, unlikely venues and circumstances -- admittedly, regularly, multiply, repeadedly, but SO FUCKING UNLIKELY -- i dare not presume what works for me works in any meaningful sense. 1926850;1565365925;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926667 << 'Мы на горе всем буржуям Мировой пожар раздуем!'(tm)(r)([https://ilibrary.ru/text/1232/p.1/index.html][a. blok]) . sometimes exactly what is needed, is flamethrower. can't speak for others, but this is what asciilifeform orig found appealing about mircea_popescu . there's no shortage of what needs burnin' 1926851;1565365925;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:01:43 mp_en_viaje: 2) i never made money, i always made power. the money was coincidental. i never made all the money there was to make or could. nor did i ever give much of a shit, i'm utterly not constructive, a world of nothing but mp will burn down. 1926852;1565366113;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926692 << principal weakness (and strength! interestingly) of ada is the total lack of support for [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926435][questionable] [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926427][legacy kludges] . 1926853;1565366113;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:45:56 spyked: also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet? 1926854;1565366113;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 17:02:19 asciilifeform: you can't even concat 2 strings w/out 'secondary stack'ism 1926855;1565366113;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 17:00:54 asciilifeform: would have to write pg end also ! 1926856;1565366168;asciilifeform;i strongly suspect that 'logtron in ada' would inescapably contain the proverbial 'buggy 80% reimplementation of common lisp'(tm) 1926857;1565366319;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926693 << mine seems to be working happily with 0.1s transmit delay. but indeed fleanode provides no guarantees, tomorrow they could just as easily decide that snsabot sending 4 shots in 0.5s is 'flood'. 1926858;1565366320;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:49:48 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 <-- it does that indeed, as per http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/feedbot/c-feedbot.lisp.html#L8 ; heck I'll set it to 2sec if that guarantees it won't fail; but yeah, fleanode provides no actual guarantees. 1926859;1565366364;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926695 << could easily be fleanode per se; they even advertise 'all new connections will be portscanned! for yer own good!' 1926860;1565366365;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:50:29 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926684 << definitely ; hand cranked, too -- hit mp_en_viaje's last ip when i logged on this one. well, coupla minutes later, anyway. 1926861;1565366399;asciilifeform;i defo saw impressive storm of packets when was testing the bot locally. 1926862;1565366549;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926712 << it is entirely possible to have sane ~back end~ on which you, e.g., write in a lisp-flavoured skin when mangling trees, and a fortran-flavoured skin when want to run in constant space/time with fine control of flow; the bolix people -- had. in fact, arguably all machines have (presently piss-poor) incarnation of this concept, it is... the machine arch itself. 1926863;1565366550;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:13:06 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926690 << i suspect there may be fundamental reasons for which there simply can't be such a thing as "a tmsr lang" 1926864;1565366560;asciilifeform;[http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46][see also asciilifeform's vintage piece] re subj. 1926865;1565366713;asciilifeform;the 'pc micro revolution' popularized an imho extremely braindamaged concept of what is 'comp lang'. specifically, where folx think that the front syntax is somehow logically glued to the internal mechanics ( whereas is merely happenstance, pc provides such broken bedrock abstractions that forces erry new lang author to write compiler 'from 0' as if year were 1959, but this is merely happenstance, rather than logical inevitability ) 1926866;1565366789;asciilifeform;witness how yer box has 9000 half-broken 'soft' garbage collectors (sometimes running in impedance-mismatch ~against~ one another) instead of 1 working iron-powered gc, etc. 1926867;1565367015;asciilifeform;pc is quite literally analogous to the 1880s portrait of mains current, where in nyc erry mansion, factory, has shed with steam engine chugging away (when the stoker remembers to stoken, and when the leather drive belt not rotted yet..) 1926868;1565367096;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926723 << for some 'heavy' log days i get up to 5s load 1926869;1565367096;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:19:59 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, i noticed it too, takes a coupla secs for a longer page. 1926870;1565367161;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926724 << all laffs aside, he had the seriously better proggy (and with 3y+ of massage, too) 1926871;1565367162;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:20:29 mircea_popescu: what can you do, alf just not as good at computing as phf :D 1926872;1565367247;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926731 << not quite. if snsabot were a cl proggy, i would not need to restart it and lose connection to do [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926802][knob turn]. 1926873;1565367248;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:39:17 spyked: ah. yeah, not sure there's such a thing. as asciilifeform pointed out, cl seems to handle string'isms better... and as mircea_popescu pointed out, cl doing tcpisms is not much different from python 1926874;1565367248;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 11:07:11 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926571 << will show [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][correct link] when the bot is next reset. 1926875;1565367315;asciilifeform;python is very firmly an artifact of the 'batch processing' era. 1926876;1565367333;asciilifeform;punch yer card deck, throw in hopper, pray. 1926877;1565367385;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926736 << threading seems like a luxury until you discover that some operation is in fact blocking in whatever case, or when you find that you want to meaningfully recover from crash, etc 1926878;1565367386;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:52:12 spyked: my sense so far is that they (initially?) designed it to be a beast similar to Apache, rather than running behind it. it does multi-threading so it should be able to handle high loads pretty well. so if, say, I snipped the multi-threading bits out, I'd perhaps cut the code in half. 1926879;1565367543;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926774 << wb, phf ! i ftr am glad to see you back, and will defo read yer proggy (and crib from, to make modernized / rationally-designed logotron sans voodoo, when time permits) 1926880;1565367543;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:02 phf: asciilifeform: i'll genesis you the logger in the next two weeks. i'd rather you not waste time on it though. the design predates castles, so making it multichannel might be excessive amount of work. it's idiosyncratic, a product of the conversations from four years ago. your current approach seems a lot more solid. 1926881;1565367686;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926776 << i can't speak for erryone, but, in case wasn't clear, asciilifeform spends HOUR+ (and sometimes several h) erry single day of the week reading coad at btcbase/patches ! it is quite essential tool , fully 20-30% boost of brain to asciilifeform . that being said, would be imho a++ if you found how to make it eat patches/sigs through a www-based hopper, like jurov's earlier it 1926882;1565367687;asciilifeform;em. that way could fill it up with recents (e.g. diana_coman's v sigs; asciilifeform's last 'm' patch/sig) w/out hassling phf 1926883;1565367687;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:17 phf: btcbase will continue running the way it has been so far, and i will continue putting vpatches into patches at least until there's a replacement 1926884;1565367744;asciilifeform;phf: alternatively , genesis the thing and i'ma maintain it. i might be the only daily user, and would be entirely fair for asciilifeform to carry the work of maintaining the thing. 1926885;1565367807;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926775 << while would still like znc-eating & similar to close gaps, must note that phf's bot has the closest to 100% time coverage of afaik any. so defo will make use of. 1926886;1565367808;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 08:34:09 phf: there's no need to znc, the entire archive of logs is available here: http://btcbase.org/log-raw/ with 2016-03.txt being the last kako file. the only outlier is tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.txt which is the dump mircea_popescu gave me of the prehistoric logs, which i have a custom reader for. 1926887;1565367821;asciilifeform;( granted it only covers #t afaik ) 1926888;1565367873;*;asciilifeform finally eaten (1st pass!) of this spinebreaker log! 1926889;1565368012;asciilifeform;btw re ddos -- mircea_popescu i think yer site also is being dos'd 1926890;1565368035;asciilifeform;i get 5 dropped conns to erry successful load.. 1926891;1565368056;asciilifeform;and hm seems to be stalled entirely just nao 1926892;1565369325;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/diy-if-you-want-a-gun-you-can-print-it-guru-cody-wilson-pleas-and-enters-sex-offender-registry/ << Qntra -- DIY "If You Want A Gun You Can Print It" Guru Cody Wilson Pleas And Enters "Sex" Offender Registry 1926893;1565373262;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926704 << i'ma put it in on next reset. loox like i'll have to adjust the www template tho, it's run, lol, outta horiz. space! in the chan bar. 1926894;1565373262;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:09:42 spyked: speaking of which, asciilifeform, could you bring snsabot in #spyked? wouldn't hurt to have it listening there. 1926895;1565375460;bvt;hello. asciilifeform: i like the new logger, esp the multi-chan support 1926896;1565375489;bvt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926429 << well, if you're willing to use heathen libs, there are at least 2 pgsql bindings libs, but dunno about the quality (most likely with gnat.socket inside, yes). 1926897;1565375490;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 17:00:59 asciilifeform: there aint one. 1926898;1565375512;asciilifeform;bvt: funnily enuff, i actually tried adacore's -- wouldn't build 1926899;1565375515;asciilifeform;on any of my gnats. 1926900;1565375529;bvt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926433 << you don't actually need to concatenate anything as long as writev(3) is there. whether any gnat lib uses it -- dunno. at least nginx does use it (http://archive.is/QKjvD#selection-2735.36-2861.26), and imo this is a correct approach to the problem -- let kernel do the copying, if it needs to 1926901;1565375530;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 17:02:10 asciilifeform: diana_coman: principal weakness of ada in re this problem set (at least the ada 'specified' by asciilifeform) is stringism handling 1926902;1565375540;asciilifeform;( cuz -- naturally -- wants dozen or so deps, each 1 weighing moar than sum total of what asciilifeform ever wrote, lol , and consisting of ??? ) 1926903;1565375541;bvt;asciilifeform: did not try myself 1926904;1565375572;bvt;tbh i would not mind attempting an irc bot in ada, but it seems more like leasure activity so far. 1926905;1565375595;asciilifeform;bvt: how do i throw into a tcp socket a formatted fetch of log, consisting of unknown length of "" etc, w/out string munging ? 1926906;1565375614;asciilifeform;or do i misunderstand 'don't need to concatenate' 1926907;1565375617;bvt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926442 << the lag is noticable, but i'd say it is entirely usable. 1926908;1565375618;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 17:05:07 asciilifeform: snsabot and its www end are imho usably snappy, but you can tell that they run in interpreter, visibly slower than phf's 1926909;1565375653;bvt;asciilifeform: you make a chain (linked list of buffers with content), pass it's head to kernel 1926910;1565375659;asciilifeform;bvt: imho it's just barely usable, and would defo benefit from rewrite in compiled lang where can turn knobs in realtime (i.e. cl) 1926911;1565375684;bvt;you still need to format the numbers, etc, but for this can always know upper bound 1926912;1565375685;asciilifeform;linked list WHERE 1926913;1565375691;asciilifeform;don't tell me, 'in heap' 1926914;1565375778;asciilifeform;i suppose it is theoretically possible to calculate upper bound... irc msg is only N chars max; and if full of nuffin but ...... but who can do this and guarantee no mistake ? 1926915;1565375791;asciilifeform;not to mention what is upper bound for # of msgs in day ? 1926916;1565375792;asciilifeform;there aint one 1926917;1565375800;bvt;well, for most of format strings you know the number of formatted elements, right. re memory allocator -- an arena allocator is typically used, and file data can be mmaped 1926918;1565375813;asciilifeform;so imho lost cause to try and calculate max size of page , even in such simple item as logotron 1926919;1565375898;asciilifeform;this is not to say that 'impossible to logotron in ada', but that result will be 1) [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926430][gargantuan] 2) ~unreadable 3) likely buggy despite herculean effort 1926920;1565375899;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 17:01:07 asciilifeform: before long we're looking at 10,000ln lol 1926921;1565375914;bvt;re logotron with arbitrary number of messages - can't you send data in a loop? otherwise the problem touches all levels of net stack -- can't have arbitrary sized packets either 1926922;1565375935;asciilifeform;bvt: could, in principle. 1926923;1565375960;asciilifeform;i think i mentioned, considered writing one. but then realized that will have to write tcpism and postgresism glue from 0. 1926924;1565375978;asciilifeform;cuz the ancient ones in fact ~do not build~ anywhere that i could get hands on. 1926925;1565376002;asciilifeform;[http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2557][example of such glue -- asciilifeform's udp lib] 1926926;1565376025;asciilifeform;there's an (ungenesis'd, cuz tripped on gnat bugginess) mmap glue also 1926927;1565376061;asciilifeform;bvt: i do not presently know what would have to be done to use utf8istic strings in gnat, either 1926928;1565376090;asciilifeform;( afaik you cannot use ~any~ of the existing string ops for these... would have to handle as naked bytes ) 1926929;1565376124;asciilifeform;and would not even be able to "" + whatever + "" etc, i.e. can't use the existing sugar for string constants at all 1926930;1565376134;bvt;i did some minor nginx plugin development -- the linked list approach was not bad, the only op i had to do with actual buffer was splitting it across chains links to insert data between. 1926931;1565376245;asciilifeform;my point , again, is not that 'cannot be done' , but that http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926853 . 1926932;1565376246;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 12:37:27 asciilifeform: i strongly suspect that 'logtron in ada' would inescapably contain the proverbial 'buggy 80% reimplementation of common lisp'(tm) 1926933;1565376262;bvt;i don't think there is a way out of treating utf8ism as raw bytes, other than finding a heathen library 1926934;1565376274;asciilifeform;damn near anyffin 'can be done'. full sized eiffel's tower from toothpicks, ~could~ be built. 1926935;1565376378;asciilifeform;but i strongly suspect that 'ada logtron' will consist mostly of non-humanreadable hex constants , and the pg glue will be eating null-termed c strings , and generally the result will not be a thing you 'would fly in it? i wouldn't walk under it!'(tm)(r)(h. hughes) 1926936;1565376480;asciilifeform;nao if you throw out pg and sqlism, and make mmap-based db from 0... then possibly. but again goes back to '80% reimplementation of commonlisp' territory. 1926937;1565376600;asciilifeform;this is the 'flip side of the medal' -- sometimes the given abstractions are not a good fit for $problem. picture e.g. attempt to ffa in commonlisp, where you'd have to bend over backwards to make sure you ~never~ cons 1926938;1565376638;asciilifeform;it is doable, and e.g. bolix's device driver coad was written that way. but is deep magic. 1926939;1565376663;bvt;i would actually expect that pg protocol does not use 0terminated strings. re 80% of CL -- inside of it's implementation you'd find same shit. dunno how it would be different from using heathen libs 1926940;1565376675;asciilifeform;bvt: the c glue defo uses 1926941;1565376681;asciilifeform;and how else wouldja propose to talk to it. 1926942;1565376683;asciilifeform;( tcp?! ) 1926943;1565376888;asciilifeform;re general topic of 'string munging problems' -- they are plentiful and prolly inescapable, and i suspect there could be win from reviving an item like snobol (where ~sane~ abstractions specifically for stringism, rather than seas of regexp) 1926944;1565376929;asciilifeform;ftr 95% of asciilifeform's sweat to make snsabot + logotron , went into debugging regexpolade. 1926945;1565377022;bvt;true, but i don't find '80% of cl argument' too convincing; if want comfort, sure, use cl/python; want hard memory limits and gcc performance, can use ada, it won't be fundamentally dirtier (due to tcp and db stuff), just more boilerplate code 1926946;1565377153;asciilifeform;i suspect the glue for pg alone (i.e. if pg disgorges eggog, to produce proper ada-compat. exception, rather than crash), not to mention utf8ism, would weigh like ten ffa's 1926947;1565377382;asciilifeform;nao, a general-purpose strings-and-streams-munging script lang ~might~ be worth implementing in ada. 1926948;1565377389;asciilifeform;sorta what i suggested to spyked at one pt 1926949;1565377396;asciilifeform;!q s adalisp 1926950;1565377397;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=adalisp&chan=trilema][24 results for "adalisp" in #trilema] 1926951;1565377457;asciilifeform;but it would not be a single evening's, or , i suspect, even single year's, weight of work. 1926952;1565377480;asciilifeform;and would consist largely of c glue. 1926953;1565377616;bvt;re pg - yes, you'd have to implement the protocol; and serialization/deserialization is error prone and typically takes lots of code (i.e. too much), agreed 1926954;1565377741;asciilifeform;aand that's just pg. now consider how to deal with tcp. 1926955;1565377762;asciilifeform;could try to use ada's 'streams' model. but then must decide, how to represent ~all~ of the possible tcp hiccups. 1926956;1565377789;asciilifeform;( what does a 0-length read mean in re a stream ? ) 1926957;1565377819;asciilifeform;my 'udp' lib was orig. gonna be a 'udp and tcp' lib. but very quickly realized... 1926958;1565378000;bvt;on posix, don't think there is way out of exposing fds and syscalls 1926959;1565378091;asciilifeform;problem isn't 'no way to expose', they're perfectly exposed, e.g. [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3420]['M'] uses 100% raw syscalls for all i/o . problem is the fundamentally ill-conceived abstraction, where you don't ~only~ have the stream, but also a barely-known and large set of possible out-of-band eggog conditions 1926960;1565378242;mircea_popescu;lol this logger's like ye olde teletype machines, feeds lines palpably 1926961;1565378254;asciilifeform;clackclack 1926962;1565378327;bvt;asciilifeform: until the day for tcp to die arrives, you'd still have to interact with tcp warts in that or other form 1926963;1565378352;asciilifeform;bvt: indeed 1926964;1565378376;asciilifeform;bvt: it's a headache that'll be around for good long time, hence worth to discuss 1926965;1565378420;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall the orig. pythonistic backend of phuctor, btw 1926966;1565378425;asciilifeform;( geological-time ! ) 1926967;1565378465;mircea_popescu;kinda reminded me of ye olde telex days 1926968;1565378479;mircea_popescu;early ro stock trading in the 90s used old commie era telexes. it was quite exciting 1926969;1565378497;asciilifeform;these are even still used, in various ex-sovok places 1926970;1565378502;asciilifeform;they're ~eternal. 1926971;1565378531;asciilifeform;( an' when output is to be made hardcopy anyway, to give to elderly general, why not telex, even ! ) 1926972;1565378584;*;asciilifeform once saw a rare photoreportage of ru army hq and on what gear runs. 100% telex, made in ddr. ) 1926973;1565378663;mircea_popescu;not bad 1926974;1565378732;bvt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926500 << i think get your point; though tbh, from my reading of linux it's not clear that urandom uses separate entropy pool, as i understood so far urandom uses the same pool as random, just ignores all 'entropy' measures (i still did not quite load that part in head, so this is not final info). 1926975;1565378732;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 18:58:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, did the fg / kernel thing ever make sense to you ? 1926976;1565378734;asciilifeform;telex & friends have substantial wins over 'modern' -- broken telex can be repaired by sweaty d00d with screwdriver, and out of improvised parts. whereas what's it even mean to 'repair' e.g. pc, esp. in condition where the parts not even made outside of taiwan. 1926977;1565378820;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu had this vintage piece, re 'technology vs magic' . where the former is something you can meaningfully take apart and repair, making new piece with lathe if you must; whereas the latter... can only pray 1926978;1565378880;bvt;lol vintage, from 2019? 1926979;1565378883;mircea_popescu;bvt, just about. btw, if you feel like reimplementing that use the hash-seed method 1926980;1565378884;asciilifeform;ru army philosophy (inherited from sovok) holds that 'magic' is poison. 1926981;1565378897;asciilifeform;( 'magic' tends to end up in vehehery short supply, in wartime ) 1926982;1565378916;asciilifeform;bvt: i think i read it in an earlier, ro piece. that grr cannot just nao find. 1926983;1565378920;mircea_popescu;i think it was more like 2013 1926984;1565378978;bvt;at least it was reiterated here http://trilema.com/2019/so-what-is-the-man-saying/ 1926985;1565379027;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, fuck, this is exact translation 1926986;1565379036;asciilifeform;ha 1926987;1565379206;mircea_popescu;bvt will have to believe this was also a ro piece years ago 1926988;1565379221;asciilifeform;it is possible that i dreamed it 1926989;1565379243;mircea_popescu;i just can't find it is all. 1926990;1565379244;bvt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926692 << there is ~20 years old 'AWS' https://github.com/adacore/aws 1926991;1565379244;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:45:56 spyked: also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet? 1926992;1565379251;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, nah, that was exact translation. 1926993;1565379270;asciilifeform;bvt: it was 1 of the items i tried to build. no dice. 1926994;1565379277;asciilifeform;dies in ocean of liquishit. 1926995;1565379552;bvt;iirc it is buildable without xmlada and all the crazy deps with some tweaks; at least i did build it once and run one of the examples 1926996;1565379567;asciilifeform;bvt: might be worth writing about how did this feat 1926997;1565379679;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926784 << yes, until you discover you can no longer get it to run. 1926998;1565379679;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 09:14:38 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-09#1926545 << python has the advantage that development happens on python 3, so python 2 has become "depcricated" (aka stable) 1926999;1565379696;asciilifeform;exactly so 1927000;1565379699;mircea_popescu;right ? 1927001;1565379733;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926544][already have dark premonitions] re subj, even. 1927002;1565379734;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 22:24:24 asciilifeform: expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots 1927003;1565379765;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926791 << for my cyruosity why did this go to trinque lol ? user dun have the key he reg'd ? 1927004;1565379765;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 09:21:00 lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1927005;1565379856;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: !!key returns one for the fellow 1927006;1565379867;mircea_popescu;well yeah ? 1927007;1565379879;mircea_popescu;you seriously suspect deedbot's automated process made a mistake for him ? 1927008;1565379891;asciilifeform;it did happen 1ce before, iirc 1927009;1565379924;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926812 << oobviously. 1927010;1565379924;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 11:09:58 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926582 << someone squatted nick 'nsabot' on fleanode. 1927011;1565380001;bvt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926770 << wb, and gute besserung! 1927012;1565380002;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 08:33:52 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926224 << perhaps quarter dead, but days go to going to hospital for daily wounds dressing, sleeping a lot and going for walks, i have another sugery on monday to close me up. 1927013;1565382144;mircea_popescu;spyked, holy shit, viseu' did not change AT ALL. 1927014;1565382182;bvt;asciilifeform: fished out some info re aws: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/koCFa/?raw=true (small patch for musl compat) and http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/avKyY/?raw=true (build instructions) seem to be it 1927015;1565382195;mircea_popescu;im pretty sure every single item i nthat pic was there 25 years ago also. 1927016;1565383130;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926862 << this is actually important point. the notion of "compiler", as ~different from os~ and somehow part of "lang" is not unlike the notion of road signage as differen tyfrom road and somehow part of all windshields and rearview mirrors. 1927017;1565383130;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 12:46:32 asciilifeform: the 'pc micro revolution' popularized an imho extremely braindamaged concept of what is 'comp lang'. specifically, where folx think that the front syntax is somehow logically glued to the internal mechanics ( whereas is merely happenstance, pc provides such broken bedrock abstractions that forces erry new lang author to write compiler 'from 0' as if year were 1959, but this is merely happenstance, rather than lo 1927018;1565383194;mircea_popescu;and then what, have legions of gnomes running around painting/erasing that stop sign in correct perspectives at 20fps ? 1927019;1565383259;mircea_popescu;sounds kinda fucking stupid and in any case more expensive than just painting some sheet metal and piking it in the ground by the roadside. but then again if mechanical engineering worked like software "engineering"... 1927020;1565383358;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, 1 of the more recent idjit fads in pnojeism etc is just this, 'augmented reality', where user is to try an' look at e.g. shops, roads, through peephole of pnoje, to see imaginary 'signs' imposed on the picture 1927021;1565383398;asciilifeform;i fully expect that reich will at some pt give up on maintaining street signage, and try to push ~this~ as 'replacement' 1927022;1565383399;mircea_popescu;well, pretty much the only way they'll see any shops at all, [http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/][soon enough] 1927023;1565383466;asciilifeform;not long ago asciilifeform went to bazar, and there were folx selling coffee. but instead of the usual signage saying what is name of the co, and from where coffee, there was... qr code. 'hey dontcha get it, aim pnoje camera here and will see little film clip of our spokesman..' 1927024;1565384059;mircea_popescu;nuts. 1927025;1565384135;*;mircea_popescu earlier stopped at gelateria. nicely furnished. had no table service and only paper cups. ONE SIZE. no plates, no nothing. 1927026;1565384147;mircea_popescu;"why buy oak chairs when you aren't going to do dishes ?" 1927027;1565384169;mircea_popescu;the extreme poverty of the contemporary ustard is only comparable to the extreme retardation of same. 1927028;1565384273;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926867 << yeah, i agree, so far just about the record holder for "oh, but he showed so much promise" trope. 1927029;1565384273;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 12:54:00 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926724 << all laffs aside, he had the seriously better proggy (and with 3y+ of massage, too) 1927030;1565384305;mircea_popescu;prolly take years for it to be surpassed, too. i guess there's that. 1927031;1565384611;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926886 << there was usage spike past few days, nfi. became popular somwhere 1927032;1565384611;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 13:08:11 asciilifeform: btw re ddos -- mircea_popescu i think yer site also is being dos'd 1927033;1565384623;mircea_popescu;as far as i can tell legitimate traffic. wtf do i know 1927034;1565385852;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926885 << ichecked, barely 12k words ? NOT EVEN A FULL BALZAC NOVEL. 1927035;1565385853;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 13:05:52 asciilifeform: finally eaten (1st pass!) of this spinebreaker log! 1927036;1565385920;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926916 << more importantly seems poor fit ; ada's strengths not so valuable for logger either. 1927037;1565385921;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 15:19:37 asciilifeform: this is not to say that 'impossible to logotron in ada', but that result will be 1) [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926430][gargantuan] 2) ~unreadable 3) likely buggy despite herculean effort 1927038;1565386206;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in fucking amusing cornell UGC, http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/physics/134-physics/general-physics/mechanics/829-why-can-t-a-plane-fly-slowly-and-let-the-earth-pass-underneath-beginner 1927039;1565389556;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is difficult, tho perhaps not impossible, to picture someone who never heard of.. satellite 1927040;1565389653;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1927033 << item pretty clearly begs, screams, to be rewritten in cl. but nao it is written, genesis'd, can be ~rewritten~ . 1927041;1565389653;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 18:06:40 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926916 << more importantly seems poor fit ; ada's strengths not so valuable for logger either. 1927042;1565389721;asciilifeform;it's, what, <1k loc (counting both www and irc ends) 1927043;1565390015;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1927044;1565390301;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, kinda lulzy, jules-verne level understanding of world around. manalone in a surprising style, bereft of even basic education. 1927045;1565390340;mircea_popescu;but hey, i'm sure awareness suitably raised on the important topics. dude guaranteed "knows" about "earth sciences" "consensus" on "global warming" &c 1927046;1565391858;BingoBoingo;Fuck that cornell MFA site is a shitter 1927047;1565392125;BingoBoingo;"Herp Derp! We R Universitit. To get prestige we must linkbuild and clickbait against MIT in the Googlefight! To that we need to replace math with Pinoy." 1927048;1565392503;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926567 << Reflecting on this today, I would like to collect journalistic minds. 1927049;1565392504;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:06:11 mp_en_viaje: incidentally, speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926225 : hanbot is taking teenaged / twentysomething females meeting [http://trilema.com/2016/pizdi/][the pizdi bill] ; i presume asciilifeform is taking highly intelligent, shy & introverted males age-irrespective, math grad student prototype while diana_coman is taking inquisitive teenagers age irrespective and BingoBoingo latam... fema 1927050;1565392822;mircea_popescu;ikr ? 1927051;1565392839;mircea_popescu;it's what's left. first service economy, then online economy, by now... 1927052;1565392946;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926659 << Related question I receive here is "What did you go to school for to do what you do?" I answer "Bibliotecas." "What does that have to do with what you do?" "Well, a bit, but mostly I just stumbled into a dragon's den shortly after school during one of those historical paradigm shifts and haven't been ate yet. 1927053;1565392946;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 03:58:21 mp_en_viaje: this is utterly fucking false, of course. the telegraph doesn't get in a month the daily readership of trilema. but i think the ~pervasiveness~ of the antiquated, and mistaken, worldview may rub off on people. 1927054;1565393193;BingoBoingo;The idea that a school's particular program of study necessarily leads to a job in that field is far more intact in Latino land than it has been in the US. 1927055;1565394075;mircea_popescu;i suspect it'll be alling in the us too. it's how socialism works, give kids parents, give kids teachers, give kids jobs... 1927056;1565395388;asciilifeform;!quptime 1927057;1565395389;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 1d 5h 8m 1927058;1565399368;asciilifeform;achtung, panzers! about to reset bot (5m) 1927059;1565399489;asciilifeform;!q src 1927060;1565399489;snsabot;asciilifeform: my source code can be seen at: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452 1927061;1565399502;asciilifeform;spyked , you are now live 1927062;1565399635;asciilifeform;spyked: if you have archival logs you'd like to see eaten -- plox to write in. 1927063;1565399684;asciilifeform;and hey resets in <25sec, notbad. 1927064;1565399722;asciilifeform;(20 of which is artificial delay) 1927065;1565400237;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1927011 << i'ma have to peek at this at some pt 1927066;1565400238;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 17:04:22 bvt: asciilifeform: fished out some info re aws: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/koCFa/?raw=true (small patch for musl compat) and http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/avKyY/?raw=true (build instructions) seem to be it 1927067;1565400267;asciilifeform;it's quite obese, btw, for those who haven't seen 1927068;1565400280;asciilifeform;and (as typically with adacore's 'extras') -- for no clear reason 1927069;1565400624;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926728 << revisiting this mega-q : i've considered to bake a tmsr ~forth~ (general-purpose, rather than peh) . has the theoretical appeal that it could be bootstrapped 'M'-style, in asm. but could i convince anyone to program in it ! 1927070;1565400625;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:37:33 spyked: mircea_popescu, re. tmsr lang: could be one of two or three (or I dunno how many) langs, as long as tmsr owns 'em. atm there's no genesis for a cl compiler/interpreter (let alone e.g. networking code a la usocket, or a curl etc.), so... inb4 "fuck you spyked, I can't even compile sbcl, how do you want me to stand up your logotron" 1927071;1565402038;asciilifeform;the fundamental [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926994][mega-problem] will have to be dealt with, one way or another 1927072;1565402038;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 16:22:39 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926784 << yes, until you discover you can no longer get it to run. 1927073;1565405643;asciilifeform;in other noose, mircea_popescu : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09?ss=1927022&se=1927024#1927022 1927074;1565405643;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 17:36:55 mircea_popescu: earlier stopped at gelateria. nicely furnished. had no table service and only paper cups. ONE SIZE. no plates, no nothing. 1927075;1565405682;asciilifeform;will vpatch if mircea_popescu et al say 'useful' . ^ multiline select. 1927076;1565405812;asciilifeform;atm these can only be constructed 'by hand'. if anyone has better idea -- plox to write in. 1927077;1565405836;asciilifeform;( i.e. ss=startindex&se=endindex ) 1927078;1565405909;asciilifeform;atm these do not know how to cross day page boundaries, however. 1927079;1565415957;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, is it hard to make timezone settable from www ? then can get free faux cross of page boundaries 1927080;1565415987;mircea_popescu;(imho minor point of little utility ; i mistly ask out of curiosity) 1927081;1565416097;mircea_popescu;re forth, so what, make another starflight ? 1927082;1565416779;mircea_popescu;and yes, multiline select is useful, put it in 1927083;1565417738;mircea_popescu;in other ends-of-line, utc (maker of elevators) is merging its aerospace division with raytheon. 1927084;1565417845;mircea_popescu;in simple words, the [http://qntra.net/2019/07/israelis-enthusiastically-burning-f-35s-stealth-window-with-strikes-now-in-iraq/][F35] failure is bringing about a winter the likes of which was never seen ; previous achievement of [http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/][lisp monkeys] nowhere within 1% 1927085;1565417917;mircea_popescu;continuing trend set with "civil air managed to lose early 2010s the combined profits realised since man discovered flight" (and then continued by obama's ending of nasa to redirect the money no more properly african goals), white man is actually getting out of aerospace altogether. 1927086;1565418015;mircea_popescu;Let halves of aeroplanes turn overhead, their smoking, broken cockpits dripping "it is done"... 1927087;1565418190;mircea_popescu;there was, of course, no supersonic civil flight since the concorde/tu144 retirements, so i suppose we could use 1970s as a high water mark. but if anyone's having kids these days, i believe by the time they're our age their only interaction with flight will be in the [http://ossasepia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/plane_and_bomb_small.png][hanging-on-ropes] format. 1927088;1565418895;mircea_popescu;perhaps best illustration of the point : [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/UTCHeadquartersViewFromTheAncientBuryingGround.JPG][UTC hq from 1975] [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/OtisElevatorCompanyHeadquarters.JPG][UTC hq from 2015] (ex otis elevator hq) 1927089;1565427883;mircea_popescu;in other illustrations, https://ufprzuhk9mggpbx4-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Screech_Owl_named_Fod_found_on_USS_Harry_S._Truman_CVN_75-1024x768.jpg 1927090;1565429299;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in highlights : the sr71 was probably man's greatest achievement wrt flight. item carried no flares/countermeasures, because its defense if fired upon was to... accelerate, and outrun the missile. mach 3 capable, flying at 20-25km, never shot down, its parts fit so loosely on the ground (because of the significant temperature variation it operated under, between relatively cold on the ground and very hot in super 1927091;1565429299;mircea_popescu;sonic flight) that its fucking tanks leaked fuel on takeoff ~as a design feature~. 1927092;1565429342;mircea_popescu;did 1km/s too 1927093;1565429660;mircea_popescu;(great story re fabrication, too. item is 80%+ titanium, can't be washed in tap water, can't be touched with cadmium-plated tools, its story is totally worth reading from an 'achievement of human mechanical engineering' perspective.) 1927094;1565429901;mircea_popescu;oh, and of course it burns synthetic fuel, rather than distillate. so yes, chemical engineering too. 1927095;1565429910;mircea_popescu;possibly the "last great story" 1927096;1565430555;mircea_popescu;'find out how a loose assemblage of rare metal parts flew on insecticide', how about that for a title. 1927097;1565431765;mircea_popescu;(and, while at it, how the first analog computers were developed -- no, it wasn't bomb calculators, it was jet engine air intake anti-unstarters for applications such as this guy.) 1927098;1565434108;mircea_popescu;speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-31#1925848 , old woman cheney's moans about the sr-71's expensiveness should probably be mentioned also. inconsequential moron, which is how he escaped mention then, but instrumental in the edifying of idiocy-us, the successor state to vhs-america. 1927099;1565434109;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-31 13:15:34 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-31#1925836 << this is quite factual ; the old women in this are mccain, [trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-antipsychotics-overprescribed-to-kids-adnotated/][grassley] etc. 1927100;1565438769;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, here's a logger webpage weird : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log correctly displays no future date, 1927101;1565438799;mircea_popescu;''← 2019-08-09" ; but http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09 displays the empty 10th link, "← 2019-08-08 | 2019-08-10 →" 1927102;1565438822;mircea_popescu;it's pisicological disconcerting! 1927103;1565441046;mircea_popescu;incidentally, i'm quite happy with jfw 's "Actually "mod_lisp" is perhaps a misnomer; it could be viewed as a generic IPC interface that comes with a Lisp implementation of the server side." comment. 1927104;1565441146;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'ma look re the date 1927105;1565441163;mircea_popescu;apache is in many parts a better system (in the sense of "system" used in "systems design) than the post-poettering and especially post-linus kernels ; mod_lisp may be a decent way to get lisp running in practice 1927106;1565441181;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927076 << doable, i'ma put in eventually 1927107;1565441181;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 02:27:19 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, is it hard to make timezone settable from www ? then can get free faux cross of page boundaries 1927108;1565441215;mircea_popescu;!qs http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html 1927109;1565441216;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=http%3A//0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html&chan=trilema][1 results for "http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html" in #trilema] 1927110;1565441252;mircea_popescu;incredible, i never had that atrocious outrage ambered before ?! 1927111;1565441271;mircea_popescu;btw asciilifeform is it practical to have an archival of links it sees bolted on to bot ? 1927112;1565441391;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: of pastes and txt links , phf-style, is planned. of general html liquishit, a la arch.is -- not planned, it is serious open problem 1927113;1565441423;mircea_popescu;myeah 1927114;1565441480;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927087 << at one time i had a framed portrait (gift) hanging on wall. 1 of most beautiful machines ever built. 1927115;1565441481;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 06:09:42 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in highlights : the sr71 was probably man's greatest achievement wrt flight. item carried no flares/countermeasures, because its defense if fired upon was to... accelerate, and outrun the missile. mach 3 capable, flying at 20-25km, never shot down, its parts fit so loosely on the ground (because of the significant temperature variation it operated under, between relatively cold on the ground and very 1927116;1565441504;asciilifeform;and k. johnson, 'the man who saw air', took it from drawing to flight in iirc <1yr ! 1927117;1565441527;asciilifeform;whereas the idjit brass cancelled it and ~ordered the tooling destroyed~ 1927118;1565441560;mircea_popescu;large undergirth of the whole "republican-democrat" debate being pepsicans. most of the manginas involved were republicans. 1927119;1565441643;asciilifeform;iirc it was axed as a 'lisp machine', cost like 100 ordinary jets. and they thought 'world's most golden toilet', the time of f35 , that ate ~three decades~ in promisetronic phase and now flying clothes iron... had not come yet 1927120;1565441698;asciilifeform;( meanwhile in su they quietly built mach5+ machine... ) 1927121;1565441756;asciilifeform;btw the operator manual of sr71 was published in '90s, prolly on the net somewhere to this day, was interesting read 1927122;1565441768;mircea_popescu;but yes, the sort of thing involved there, such as "listen sonny, ever heard of Schlieren flow visualisation ? no ? look here, this is supersonic jet in flight!" are the primary dirvers of intelligent adolescents even putting in the work to become adult engieners in the first fuckin gplace 1927123;1565441783;mircea_popescu;meanwhile, cheney's stupid cunt of a daughter inherited his wyoming ealrdom. 1927124;1565441825;*;asciilifeform had roommate at uni, who got degree in building jets. but then realized -- no serious work. now astronomer.. 1927125;1565441881;asciilifeform;fella wanted to fly personally, got license even. but never afaik saved enuff for plane... 1927126;1565441970;asciilifeform;last letter from him was years ago, he moved to a http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926670 , asked advice re choice of shotgun 1927127;1565441970;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:02:39 mp_en_viaje: 3) the whole of it was always hanging out with the cool people. i don't mean, "cool", as in, swag. i mean cool as in david lynch quote above, dork bought a 12 room house for $3500 in th worst gangland he could find for his wife and newborn kid and lived there, "the fear was palpable" 1927128;1565442543;mircea_popescu;WRONG model. you don't want to grow cunts into "[http://trilema.com/2018/scar-tissue-where-law-used-to-be/][careerwomen]" ; you want to grow [http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/?b=Consider&e=#select][boys] into engineers. 1927129;1565442631;mircea_popescu;if there's ten, ten million or no dumb cunts sitting around their holy tree or whatever the fuck chanting their spurious nonsense it makes no fucking difference whatsoever. 1927130;1565442712;mircea_popescu;obviously from THEIR pov if there isn't any such thing as a spear to fucking poke them until they submit (yes, the SPEAR was the original society-changer, turned human tribes from matriarchy to patriarchy because finally there was an efficient way to make the dumb cunts stfu with their dumb nonsense) all the better ; but theirs isn't a legitimate pov. 1927131;1565442717;mircea_popescu;theirs is a pov which MUST BE REPRESSED. 1927132;1565442994;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, re the sr being expensive : it was not particularly expensive, even by the day's standards. it was however besed by the dumb cunt lobby who, for instance, WOULD NOT permit it get upgraded with a data link, SPECIFOCALLY so they could claim "useless -- data only avsilable on landing" 1927133;1565443017;mircea_popescu;same bunch of morons who ALSO pushed through very expensive but otherwise mostly pointless sensor upgrade -- also specifically so as to claiom "costly" 1927134;1565443032;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand, it fell victim to the idjit internal wars b/w diff 'competing' golden toilet houses 1927135;1565443043;mircea_popescu;but yes, the cunt lobby wants the tools destroyed, because the only thing that can oppose "let 1927136;1565443054;mircea_popescu;s sit in a circle and pick lice out of each other" is tooling. 1927137;1565443085;asciilifeform;same folx ordered all apollo kit destroyed. 1927138;1565443216;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927117 << amusingly, the sr was built entirely out of titanium exfiltrated from a remarkably cluess soviet union (large portion of the "private companies" in the afore-mentioned germany-[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-11-14#1738523][switzerland] ***trade was this) ; nobody else had the rutile sands. 1927139;1565443216;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 09:36:22 asciilifeform: ( meanwhile in su they quietly built mach5+ machine... ) 1927140;1565443216;snsabot;Logged on 2017-11-14 17:19:44 mircea_popescu: via switzerland or directly. 1927141;1565443227;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re upstack , and yer gonna 'luvv' this -- i have the date link thing on operating table right nao, and loox like bug in... 'flask' 1927142;1565443236;mircea_popescu;heh 1927143;1565443348;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re titanium -- they still sell it. (quasi-monopoly. but -- and common misconception -- it aint because of the sands, at least not directly; but rather because ru has the only seriously developed infrastructure for ti metallurgy ) 1927144;1565443354;diana_coman;lmao; I puzzled when first saw there "flask" - but then again, not sure one can bake www-anything quickly without importing any mess 1927145;1565443363;mircea_popescu;in other same "burn down tools" : what unites the here discussed sr71 and the other excellent us plane ever built, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-08-29#1845422][the warthhog] ? 1927146;1565443364;snsabot;Logged on 2018-08-29 12:10:45 mircea_popescu: pro tip : the thompson's a passible concrete cutter. it comes from the same mental era as http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=warthog ; made by the same people for the same reasons, abandoned by the same cucks for the same reasons. 1927147;1565443385;*;diana_coman had no idea what flask was and barely got an idea after looking it up when it popped up in stan's logger 1927148;1565443414;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 'flask' is the py people's equiv. of 'hunchentoot'. eats the @app.route('/log//') etc sugars , does the 'html madlibs' thing on the 'templates' (a la 'cl-who') etc 1927149;1565443422;mircea_popescu;a: they both had this projected faint light line around the cockpit representing the true horizon. set so faint as to disappear in direct vision, it nevertheless informed the (more sensitive) peripheral vision, preventing accidents wonderfully! 1927150;1565443441;mircea_popescu;every time alf goes on about "mind enhancing tools" the pvhd is my mental model. 1927151;1565443442;asciilifeform;diana_coman: picked it up when wrote phuctor, in 2013, 'on drumskin' in literally a day 1927152;1565443461;mircea_popescu;pretty much ONLY KNOWN SYSTEM where truthfully and genuinely, the promise of "drugs" or "tools" or whatever is actually fullfilled. 1927153;1565443492;mircea_popescu;i'll be really happy to hear of another. 1927154;1565443509;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: is interesting in fact to read about the era of flight before 'instruments'. lots and lotsa corpses on acct of 'seat of pants' as sole instrument 1927155;1565443524;mircea_popescu;and no, of course "not needed", "do we still have to DO that". because why the fuck learn from the few and far between successes of that sorry failed republic. 1927156;1565443539;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, aha. as it happens human inner ear uniquely unfit for flight. 1927157;1565443547;mircea_popescu;gets "hallucinations" 1927158;1565443567;asciilifeform;not only inner ear, but just about whole of flight instruction is about beating the 'intuitive' behaviours out of the student. 1927159;1565443574;mircea_popescu;quite. 1927160;1565443578;asciilifeform;consider why 'spin' was at one pt considered 100% fatal 1927161;1565443587;mircea_popescu;much like what makes a half decent soldier, or generally a half decent human being, 1927162;1565443595;asciilifeform;( 'natural' reactions of untaught flyer, ~amplify~ spin ) 1927163;1565443648;mircea_popescu;meanwhikle at cuntcamps, [https://www.scarleteen.com/article/abuse_assault_relationships_etc/the_quiet_voice_how_i_stopped_listening_to_emotional_abuse][gut feelings are your guardian angel] 1927164;1565443671;mircea_popescu;and yes, indeed their are -- her fucking guardian angels. never the fuck mine, holy shit burn the whole thing down. 1927165;1565443709;asciilifeform;lol do i even want to load that link... 1927166;1565443767;mircea_popescu;load, load, why not. perfectly anti-reality nonsense, crafted to appeal to a certain sort of moron. 1927167;1565443785;mircea_popescu;telling a girl she's complete is like telling a pig it's a sparrow. 1927168;1565443871;*;asciilifeform read; loox like 'gargauni' on parade 1927169;1565443994;asciilifeform;will throw in hanbot's http://thewhet.net/2013/09/your-feelings-are-out-to-get-you/ , nao these opposite charges can meet and produce gamma burst!1 1927170;1565444181;diana_coman;ugh; I still call it misnomer though; "growing" like a tree without any internal work still doesn't mean that everyone's just as hollow 1927171;1565444355;diana_coman;to link it to the previous thread, it seems to me quite similar to saying that "instinct" of noob pilot is shit, therefore instinct of *any* pilot, experience be damned, is just as shit; I seriously doubt this. 1927172;1565444557;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'date' thing fixed. did find that clock on the box has drifted by + ~40min (it dun 'ntp'ism or any such.) suppose ought to fix (and get then phf-style odd timestamps) or leave alone ? 1927173;1565444661;asciilifeform;btw possibly i mentioned, but the historic timestamps are all over the place 1927174;1565444676;asciilifeform;when wrote 1st draft of logotron, i made mistake of sorting ~by time~, ended up with soup displayed 1927175;1565444710;asciilifeform;(no one admitted to noticing, when put up 1st draft as demo w/ old logs. but i noticed as soon as started reading vintage logs through it) 1927176;1565444756;asciilifeform;seems like phf also occasionally went 'hey clock drifted by 40min, let's move it' 1927177;1565444801;asciilifeform;this is almost enuff to give asciilifeform itch to install rubidium clock at piz 1927178;1565444826;asciilifeform;( naturally wont do anyffin for the historic timestamps, which are apparently rubbish ) 1927179;1565444934;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i dun see any disagreement -- the 'instinct' developed by trained pilot is very diff item from 'instinct' 'developed' by rube over years of being rube. 1927180;1565445057;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-03-24#1789567][see also..] 1927181;1565445058;snsabot;Logged on 2018-03-24 12:14:29 mircea_popescu: right. rather in fact like respiration -- everyone has it, and ALL THE TIME ; it takes al schwartz to blow rather than inhale when organometallic fireball's going on. 1927182;1565445180;diana_coman;well yes, but only the second should be called instinct, the first is at best some preprogrammed/random reaction, dunno (and same for feelings really; out of nothing, there's no feelings, only preprogrammed or random reactions) 1927183;1565445236;diana_coman;"first" -> noob above; "second" - training + experience 1927184;1565445287;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the set of reactions that killed ww1 pilots in spins are properly called 'instinct', they're reflexes which make sense when land creature e.g. slips on ice and moves to right itself 1927185;1565445294;diana_coman;in other words, it's no surprise walkers on soil have in fact absolutely no instinct for flying quickly high up in the air; 1927186;1565445296;asciilifeform;simply dun work in air 1927187;1565445360;asciilifeform;( the other bit, is that vestibular 'stone' aint anyffin like a perfect gyro, it has substantial 'stickiness' ) 1927188;1565445524;asciilifeform;pretty much all folx working in 'untypical' environ, must rely on instruments and specifically learn to ignore naive reflex ; not only pilots, but e.g. sea divers 1927189;1565445609;asciilifeform;diana_coman: do you like to shoot ? recall when noob, and had to learn not to flinch from recoil ? 1927190;1565445626;asciilifeform;there's this 'anticipatory twitch' most folx start with 1927191;1565445641;diana_coman;asciilifeform: dunno, if you define instinct as "automated path", then it can be acquired even for "untypical environ" and essentially the only thing is when one says "instinct" generically like that since it's not "one" but many and the whole thing is to know /be able to choose the right one 1927192;1565445662;asciilifeform;rright, can be acquired, but is higher brain function 1927193;1565445717;diana_coman;asciilifeform: sadly I never shot guns, no; (shot some bow and arrow but other than that, kills were of a more lower class countryside style rather than lord of the mannor) 1927194;1565445786;asciilifeform;aa, it's an example i always use with usa folx, they usually go 'aha' 1927195;1565445804;asciilifeform;possibly memory of how learned bicycle as a child also worx 1927196;1565445826;diana_coman;heh, I learnt to cycle when I was...~24 :| 1927197;1565445872;diana_coman;but because of that, I know precisely what it took - a very lucid learning, let's say; not "intuitive", no 1927198;1565445964;asciilifeform;there's a set of 'think instead of reflex' that folx learn when start to drive auto, also 1927199;1565445970;asciilifeform;it is moar or less universal thing 1927200;1565446073;asciilifeform;just about all types of transport moar complicated than pair of boots, require. 1927201;1565446087;diana_coman;but fwiw I think I know what you mean; the "gut instinct" is not a generally-good thing; it's good at what it's good and doesn't translate well to dissimilar environment basically 1927202;1565446100;asciilifeform;aha. 1927203;1565446115;diana_coman;funnily enough re driving I had the precise opposite trouble: had to trust a bit more *some*O!! 1927204;1565446118;diana_coman;lolz 1927205;1565446128;diana_coman;uhm, some reflex too 1927206;1565446158;asciilifeform;it's 'firmware call', but the firmware is 1e6 y.o., and in certain cases outta date.. 1927207;1565446242;diana_coman;the way I see it, it's simply shortcut obtained through experience; hence my statement above that it's not and cannot be out of nothing just like that; even what seems as "out of nothing" is just...forgot when learnt rather than truly out of nothing 1927208;1565446292;diana_coman;and hence the trouble with different environment - if different enough, the previous experience is worse than useless because actively hinders 1927209;1565446430;asciilifeform;there's an infamous legend from '80s from some comp center where a vt100 was found to be mysteriously defective, no one could log in. electricals found to be 100% proper, no one could say why. until someone noticed that the table it sat on was too low, and folx ended up ~looking at keys~ instead of keying 'blind'. and 2 letters were swapped... 1927210;1565446536;asciilifeform;( this evokes laffs today, but vt100 cost what ~toyota cost ) 1927211;1565447497;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, panzers ! [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][logotron vpatch set] nao includes multilineism an' the date thing. 1927212;1565447567;asciilifeform;^ diana_coman et al 1927213;1565447721;asciilifeform;( how to multiline ? example in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1927070 . ) 1927214;1565447722;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 23:35:24 asciilifeform: in other noose, mircea_popescu : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09?ss=1927022&se=1927024#1927022 1927215;1565447804;diana_coman;nice 1927216;1565447850;*;diana_coman is still looking for "where to host bot, wtf" 1927217;1565447857;asciilifeform;i'ma add in coming days the 'raw line export' thing. but then ideally to get back in peh 1927218;1565447887;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i've been thinking of getting a box in same ru place mircea_popescu once used 1927219;1565447896;asciilifeform;( to move asciilifeform's www ) 1927220;1565447943;asciilifeform;iirc [https://www.hostkey.ru/][them] 1927221;1565447996;asciilifeform;i dun recall hearing any serious barf. ( and i think somebody still has a trb noad there ) 1927222;1565448077;asciilifeform;trinque had some box in asia, iirc also, but that's where deedbot disconnected ~daily , iirc 1927223;1565448136;asciilifeform;i'd rather not spend megabux on heathen hosters, but to put ~all~ in 1 cage is to tempt fate 1927224;1565448188;diana_coman;asciilifeform: my node is in singapore and it's been running perfectly fine 1927225;1565448200;diana_coman;but I don't really want the logger there too 1927226;1565448225;asciilifeform;lessee what mircea_popescu remembers re the ru people (supposing i didn't dream it) 1927227;1565448357;diana_coman;eh, the way I see it is more of an opportunity to look around again and try perhaps some datacenters 1927228;1565448362;asciilifeform;diana_coman: atm i'm somewhat curious whether the logotron is even reproducible 1927229;1565448381;asciilifeform;(or only worx b/c asciilifeform has a particular ancient gentoo by happenstance) 1927230;1565448386;diana_coman;after all, it's a logger, not something terribly sensitive 1927231;1565448434;asciilifeform;diana_coman: a stolen logbot could be used to piss some garbage unto the chan while folx sleep, but that's more or less the max damage 1927232;1565448466;diana_coman;and easily spotted + cleaned anyway, yes. 1927233;1565448477;asciilifeform;the moar serious concern is time of operator, if it regularly barfs, will have to either go in and spoon-feed it or throw out 1927234;1565448491;diana_coman;sure; but: throw out, obv. 1927235;1565448504;asciilifeform;i suspect that this is what gave various folx the phobia of 'make logger' 1927236;1565448599;*;diana_coman will bbl 1927237;1565448609;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i suppose the 'max pain' zone is when barfs, but not often enuff to trigger 'obv., let's throw out' heh 1927238;1565448615;*;asciilifeform also bbl, teatime 1927239;1565450963;asciilifeform;oh hey guesswat, mircea_popescu , http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-11-30#1744899 nao 404 ! 1927240;1565450963;snsabot;Logged on 2017-11-30 17:56:47 mircea_popescu: https://www.tailhook.net/AVSLANG.htm << better list than the hacker lexicon, in purely lexical terms, and an evident source of the pencildick's envious, unreferenced cultural appropriation. 1927241;1565458861;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, incidentally, thee up/down references showing eg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927117 was referenced later were very useful ; can put in ? 1927242;1565458862;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 09:36:22 asciilifeform: ( meanwhile in su they quietly built mach5+ machine... ) 1927243;1565458916;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/TEs6e << preserved above 404 link, fortunately. 1927244;1565458944;mircea_popescu;we utterly must have a logotron archiver, no way around it. hey lobbes is your still functional ? spyked , were you at some point downloading the zips or was it him ? 1927245;1565459484;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927140 << there's also that, ti is a whore, contaminates easier than chocolate bar in the hands of a 5yo 1927246;1565459485;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:03:51 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re titanium -- they still sell it. (quasi-monopoly. but -- and common misconception -- it aint because of the sands, at least not directly; but rather because ru has the only seriously developed infrastructure for ti metallurgy ) 1927247;1565459656;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927168 << yet the way in which experienced pilot gets to have instinct worth a shit is by ~not~ worshipping instinct as such. 1927248;1565459656;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:20:38 diana_coman: to link it to the previous thread, it seems to me quite similar to saying that "instinct" of noob pilot is shit, therefore instinct of *any* pilot, experience be damned, is just as shit; I seriously doubt this. 1927249;1565459687;mircea_popescu;and this precisely mirrors female becoming : the way girl grows into ~woman~ is by NOT following her girlidiocy, but speciffically repressing it. 1927250;1565459803;mircea_popescu;if she follows it instead, she grows into [http://trilema.com/2017/dupa-dealuri/#comment-121113][lisa] fucking [http://trilema.com/2017/powder-blue/][kudrow]. 1927251;1565459836;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927169 << i honestly have nfi what to say. time is beyond my comprehension. 1927252;1565459837;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:24:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'date' thing fixed. did find that clock on the box has drifted by + ~40min (it dun 'ntp'ism or any such.) suppose ought to fix (and get then phf-style odd timestamps) or leave alone ? 1927253;1565460009;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927179 << but THEY call it instinct. like they call education "rape" and like they call everything things. like the romanian morons call tjheir thing "a country", an unjustified audacity the zulus of last century did not express, and like any morons ever [http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#footnote_4_55254][call things what they heard is good to call things]. what 1927254;1565460009;mircea_popescu; do you propose, sending out patrols to shoot in the gut and leave for dead any pantsuit saying "instinct" incorrectly ? 1927255;1565460009;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:34:23 diana_coman: well yes, but only the second should be called instinct, the first is at best some preprogrammed/random reaction, dunno (and same for feelings really; out of nothing, there's no feelings, only preprogrammed or random reactions) 1927256;1565460131;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927184 << this is the larger part ; also has fatigue and also has a list of "magical transformations" where it reduces/[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-12-19#1881724][ablates the tree] in surprising ways (really, informed by bias resulting from "land creature"). 1927257;1565460131;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:37:23 asciilifeform: ( the other bit, is that vestibular 'stone' aint anyffin like a perfect gyro, it has substantial 'stickiness' ) 1927258;1565460131;snsabot;Logged on 2018-12-19 12:09:38 mircea_popescu: natural language, however, ablates the trees for "convenience" so to speak, ie, uses commonly what's known in computing as sparse trees. 1927259;1565460236;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927200 << very common in ro women, for some reason (perhaps to do with learning late). 1927260;1565460237;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:49:59 diana_coman: funnily enough re driving I had the precise opposite trouble: had to trust a bit more *some*O!! 1927261;1565460356;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927224 << i also don't see the advantage in concentrating. wtf would be the benefit of having trilema and logger down at same time ? 1927262;1565460356;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 11:27:21 diana_coman: eh, the way I see it is more of an opportunity to look around again and try perhaps some datacenters 1927263;1565461255;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/arkancide-today-jeffery-epstein-dead-in-jail-two-weeks-after-being-put-on-suicide-watch-hours-after-pantsuit-names-released/ << Qntra -- Arkancide Today: Jeffery Epstein Dead In Jail Two Weeks After Being Put On Suicide Watch, Hours After Pantsuit Names Released 1927264;1565464830;mp_en_viaje;o look at that, north argentina [http://trilema.com/2016/o-hey-is-it-november-yet/][old whore] following in the footsteps of south argentina [http://trilema.com/2015/maripostas/?b=Cristina&e=bathroom#select][old whore]. who [http://trilema.com/2012/the-stockexchange-shareholders-on-welfare/?b=Wait&e=terrorism#select][could have predicted]. 1927265;1565464874;mp_en_viaje;sic transit, i guess Ima send the hilarity care packages in the hole, cigs wrapped in pantsuits. 1927266;1565465040;mp_en_viaje;in other news, got a little moar pipe for trilema, turns out can only do so much of [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-images-no-longer-showing/][that], want to or not. hopefully this alleviates, wtf. 1927267;1565465051;BingoBoingo;Irony of Ironies is that North Argentina Pantsuit more likely to see a jail cell. South Argentina just might elect theirs President again. 1927268;1565465083;*;BingoBoingo was about to report the wonderful photo in http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-we-pretend-to-be-miners-fo-real/ missing 1927269;1565465197;mp_en_viaje;o dude, i can almost taste that thing 1927270;1565465217;mp_en_viaje;truth be told, chet took the secret of that perfection with her ; never did manage to reproduce. 1927271;1565465546;BingoBoingo;I've been on a chili kick recently. Will probably photo blog something along those lines by the end of the month. 1927272;1565468039;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927241 << my process was indeed downloading the archived zips. I still have the data, though the archiver iron has been disconnected during my physical move to a saner location. This weekend I will get that iron back online and archiving 1927273;1565468039;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 14:23:48 mircea_popescu: we utterly must have a logotron archiver, no way around it. hey lobbes is your still functional ? spyked , were you at some point downloading the zips or was it him ? 1927274;1565468091;lobbes;right now, though, I'ma get back to getting that znc-eater.py complete 1927275;1565480967;lobbes;and here is the 'bare-bones' completed znc-eater.py : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3r1oH/?raw=true 1927276;1565480977;lobbes;still needs some tweaking (e.g. it barfs on unicode) and more testing before genesis. 1927277;1565480984;lobbes;However, it eats a dir full of ZNC logs, sorts in chronological order, puts it all into one file with proper unix epoch timestamps. 1927278;1565487472;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927238 << the back/fwd links a la phf ? defo will go in (i'm aiming for 100% feature parity) but some time after the raw-export and similar knobs aimed to make redundant-backup installs easier 1927279;1565487472;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 14:22:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, incidentally, thee up/down references showing eg http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927117 was referenced later were very useful ; can put in ? 1927280;1565487622;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927273 << i'ma let lobbes fix so actually eats 100%. lobbes if you get stuck lemme know 1927281;1565487623;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 20:31:03 lobbes: still needs some tweaking (e.g. it barfs on unicode) and more testing before genesis. 1927282;1565488118;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927248 << i'ma move that clock some time no one is awake. and in general prolly worth to adjust it regularly (monthly?) nao that there's a log on that box. 1927283;1565488119;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 14:38:41 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927169 << i honestly have nfi what to say. time is beyond my comprehension. 1927284;1565488143;asciilifeform;imho monotonicity moar important in the timestamp than strict alignment w/ whatever zone. 1927285;1565488183;asciilifeform;( the log lines sit down monotonically always. the only use currently for the timestamp is the calendarization cut into days ) 1927286;1565488235;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927258 << going by historic behaviour of various bots -- dc worth 2 shits is apparently rare 1927287;1565488236;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 14:47:20 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927224 << i also don't see the advantage in concentrating. wtf would be the benefit of having trilema and logger down at same time ? 1927288;1565488241;asciilifeform;logger prolly a notbad test. 1927289;1565527356;mp_en_viaje;so im sitting here on balcony after breakfast, watching the girly joggers file around the building, when suddenly "wtf is that plane doing ?! and why is it coming this way ?!" 1927290;1565527381;mp_en_viaje;something was definitely amiss, there's no commercial path this way, but thia airliner spent a minute or so driving straight towards us. 1927291;1565527444;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927269 << cool deal. 1927292;1565527444;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 16:55:24 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927241 << my process was indeed downloading the archived zips. I still have the data, though the archiver iron has been disconnected during my physical move to a saner location. This weekend I will get that iron back online and archiving 1927293;1565527470;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927275 << yes. cool. 1927294;1565527470;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 22:19:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927238 << the back/fwd links a la phf ? defo will go in (i'm aiming for 100% feature parity) but some time after the raw-export and similar knobs aimed to make redundant-backup installs easier 1927295;1565527516;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927285 << this was part and parcel of the original "make bots" decision, back in the day. 1927296;1565527517;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 22:32:08 asciilifeform: logger prolly a notbad test. 1927297;1565527535;mp_en_viaje;it's a approachably non-trivial, multiply useful task. 1927298;1565539024;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/etude-en-foodes/ << Trilema -- Etude en foodes 1927299;1565539416;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: loox delish 1927300;1565539991;mp_en_viaje;hehe ya 1927301;1565540161;*;diana_coman goes to check if there's any Chec left for photos and all that jazz 1927302;1565541986;diana_coman;!!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9ezE9/?raw=true 1927303;1565541989;deedbot;accepted: 1 1927304;1565542010;diana_coman;asciilifeform: deeded copy of #ossasepia log ^ 1927305;1565542022;asciilifeform;ty diana_coman , will eat 1927306;1565542029;diana_coman;thank you! 1927307;1565542263;asciilifeform;diana_coman: eaten!! 1927308;1565542590;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plz post, when you have time, the converter you used 1927309;1565542615;asciilifeform;i'd like to fill up #a, #p 1927310;1565542632;asciilifeform;diana_coman: also let's do same for #e (right nao entirely empty..) 1927311;1565542647;asciilifeform;spyked : how about #s . 1927312;1565545326;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, PANZERS! [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][logotron tree updated] with 1) raw-line export knob 2) debug knob that actually turns off (prev. had mistake where it remained forever active) 1927313;1565545340;asciilifeform;example of usage for raw export : 1927314;1565545341;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-raw/trilema?istart=1925000&iend=1925005 1927315;1565545364;asciilifeform;currently set to disgorge max of 500 ln. in one pageload; but is adjustible. 1927316;1565545384;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al ^ and for anyone who is thinking of running mirrors !! 1927317;1565545510;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-11#1000032 << Fellow from earlier indeed appears to have his private key. When you get a chance to, please swing by #pizarro to see if you can help him debug his issue decrypting deedbot strings to !!v. 1927318;1565545511;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1927319;1565545511;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 13:09:14 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: here is a re-encrypted copy of the encrypted message you sent me earlier as evidence I have the private key: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Kkmtg/?raw=true 1927320;1565545515;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-589663.txt 1927321;1565545572;asciilifeform;btw the debug knob fix appears to speed up by 50% or so 1927322;1565545599;asciilifeform;(previously thing was pretty busy barfing raw sqlisms to 'nohup'...) 1927323;1565545676;asciilifeform;e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10 is still ~1.7s vs phf's 0.1 . but still sumthing. 1927324;1565545835;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927287 << Seems to support yesterday's end of aviation thread. Maybe by 2050 the 12 passenger cargo ship returns. 1927325;1565545835;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 09:24:30 mp_en_viaje: something was definitely amiss, there's no commercial path this way, but thia airliner spent a minute or so driving straight towards us. 1927326;1565545903;mp_en_viaje;heh 1927327;1565546039;*;BingoBoingo as child yet to see kindergarden had a favorite book. Included all sorts of aircraft. The only ones I remember with certainty were the SR-71, A-10, flying radar picket, and the loser F-4 that didn't even have a gun while pretending to be a fighter. 1927328;1565546106;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: f4 , going by period accounts, had the mega-'feature' where had several modes of spin that were 'unrecoverable' , i.e. if(spin) catapult_now ! 1927329;1565546125;asciilifeform;'disposable' machine 1927330;1565546178;BingoBoingo;Sounds like as good of a reason as any to start pushing a "fighter of the future don't need guns" meme 1927331;1565546245;asciilifeform;'Вижу в небе белую черту, / Мой "Фантом" теряет высоту, / Катапульта - вот спасенье, / И на стропах натяженье,/ Сердце в пятки, в штопор я иду.'(tm)(r)('fantom', cult '80s ru item re subj) 1927332;1565546303;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/lhv8p][subj, for aficionados strictly.] 1927333;1565546401;asciilifeform;'Вижу я как Эдвард с Бобом / Вдруг пошли встречаться с богом / Вижу ноль семнадцать на борту.' ( 'then i see, that Ed and Bob, went off to meet up with God, on the clock i see 0-17.' ) 1927334;1565546452;asciilifeform;i find it interesting that there appear to be 0 popular songs/rhymes about flying in usa, such that would post-date ww2 1927335;1565546563;asciilifeform;in ru, '9000', and starring erry possible kind of flyer, from old man baron richthofen to 'somewhere far away is my native texas' fella above flying f4, to... whoever 1927336;1565546651;BingoBoingo;Gotta understand, US is largely German and misc. other serfs by mass. When the US needs a song to set to aviation footage they use Jesus stuff like Greenbaum's "Spirit In The Sky" 1927337;1565546680;asciilifeform;why is it then that luftwaffe had dozen songs, and usa started an' stopped with 'wing and prayer' circa 1942 ? 1927338;1565546709;BingoBoingo;Because Germany kept the good Germans 1927339;1565546779;BingoBoingo;When Germany sold cheap labor to US farmers in the 18th century they didn't send them cultured. 1927340;1565546786;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i suspect deeper problem. somehow subj lost appeal in 'civilized' world... as a boy i dun think i met one single boy who did not at least on boy level wish he could become a jet pilot 1927341;1565546796;asciilifeform;it was ~equiv of current-day usa's 'be rock star' 1927342;1565546874;asciilifeform;maybe, defending motherland from demented martians is appealing, but strafing half-naked half-apes in jungle, desert, not so appealing ? 1927343;1565546924;BingoBoingo;Well, the couple that I know who did the Air ROTC and get to piloting ended up flying fat freight planes. 1927344;1565546979;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in asciilifeform's extended meatwot, there's a fella who signed up for this. flew in iraq, today -- hobo 1927345;1565547111;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there's reason to suspect that usa air corps dropped standards. even asciilifeform ( who was never remotely athlete, or otherwise suspected of qualifying for the work ) has , in dusty files from freshman yr of uni , paper spam from u.s. af, 'pleez consider sign up, guaranteed flight instruction!' etc 1927346;1565547196;asciilifeform;... [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-11-30#1744927][compare with su]. 1927347;1565547197;snsabot;Logged on 2017-11-30 18:15:59 a111: Logged on 2016-12-08 18:28 asciilifeform: gymnasts may not be perfect example. when you have a role where the training per se is costly, you're stuck picking. e.g., pilots; i recently read a quite interesting autobio, 'Обречены на подвиг' ('condemned to heroism', roughly) by su flying d00d / instructor / colonel. described how children having any physical imperfection, even tooth cavity, were mercilessly 1927348;1565547258;asciilifeform;i suspect, because ultimately http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-11-30#1744918 . 1927349;1565547258;snsabot;Logged on 2017-11-30 18:04:55 asciilifeform: today jet man is more or less a programmer with uncommonly unpleasant working condition. 1927350;1565547354;BingoBoingo;"Guaranteed flight instruction" does not mean "fly our planes for us". It means "here are some waivers for a civilian general aviation course" 1927351;1565547441;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i did not show up to where the spam asked, so do not know. but suspect that the whole orchestra is hard up for literate folx: 1927352;1565547442;BingoBoingo;Many of the mid-sized midwestern universitits have "aviation" courses for eating the ROTC folk's "guaranteed flight instruction" buxx 1927353;1565547519;asciilifeform;... one time there was a sort of show at the uni, 'rotc' corps brought some old (vietnam?) artillery pieces. i walk up to one , the cranks -- surprisingly -- oiled, start to aim it at uni admin bldg. sargeant : 'they forbid us from permitting audience to touch these! but pleeeez come to the base, you can play with it all you like! and wontcha consider to sign up ???' 1927354;1565547654;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: fwiw i pictured 'guaranteed instruction!' as, you come to the class and 'guarantee' at least will get to play 'f19' for coupla hr 1927355;1565547868;BingoBoingo;The folks I knew who went pilot did the lessons. The one I talked to more was constantly stressed, because only so many of the folks taking lessons and flying prop planes from Murphysboro, Illinois to Pinckneyville, Illinois and back would get the opportunity for further instuction on flying things that would earn them a bunk and meals. 1927356;1565547964;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in current era, it's a work that has all of the appeal of those safari tours where you shoot tame lion 1927357;1565548031;BingoBoingo;Anyways, Honda now makes and markets owner-operator jet with the motors mounted like in Star Trek. Notably absent are dorks wearing their fantsuits and lined up to buy them https://archive.is/SNaie 1927358;1565548137;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: what's so novel re the pictured machine ? my ride from bucharest to timis was in a tub that looked quite like this, only slightly larger 1927359;1565548192;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and incidentally a 'greyhound'-type bus costs nao about 1mil. 1927360;1565548209;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The novelty is in jets above wing and made by the folks who produce the "Honda supercub - most popular motor vehicle in history" 1927361;1565548269;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: honda makes errything from chainsaw to asciilifeform's old tub auto to steamer . 1927362;1565548318;asciilifeform;it's 1 of those 'zaibatsu', was makin' samurai swords in 1700s, will be around in 2200s 1927363;1565548531;mp_en_viaje;actually it is kinda funny ~only usian song subjects are either jaysus or else "Ashley. You 're a fuckin' bitch. You left me for a guy named Lance. Ashley. You 're really stupid. Cos I was saving up to take you to France. Yeah, I was gonna take you to France." variants 1927364;1565548564;mp_en_viaje;nevermind fligjht, nevermind even something as simple as "stakhanov and his mighty pick" 1927365;1565548568;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: actually in asciilifeform's head, archaetypical u.s. song is 'i am walrus' 1927366;1565548574;asciilifeform;i.e. ??!!!?? 1927367;1565548645;mp_en_viaje;i managed to go through ten years of trilema during which i found myself forced to reference french, italian, german, even canadian songs. 1927368;1565548658;mp_en_viaje;but somehow, never usian. 1927369;1565548660;BingoBoingo;Well, the thing is how they use the branding. Putting the Honda brand on it means mass market in the way VW meant mass market. Now here we are a century into powered flight and the mass market brand has a plane, but the mass market is even poorer than it was at the dawn of flight. No Honda Jet Airstrip in every gated subdivision. 1927370;1565548669;asciilifeform;there are a coupla modern ditties with 'educational' bent, e.g. 'a scrub is a guy who'll get no luvv from me!' 1927371;1565548754;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927339 << i dunno, captive monkeys make as good fucktoys as any martians. 1927372;1565548754;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 14:49:24 asciilifeform: maybe, defending motherland from demented martians is appealing, but strafing half-naked half-apes in jungle, desert, not so appealing ? 1927373;1565548760;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'mass market' != konsoomer. greyhound bus also 'mass market', how many folx on street know what it costs. 1927374;1565548782;diana_coman;asciilifeform: the converter is awk one-liner but my logs were plain irssi (and the annoying bit was re time because hour:min only + day change only); still, if you think it may be of use, I'll post it, sure 1927375;1565548783;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: recall mao's 'airplane is paper tiger, soldier can't surrender to it' 1927376;1565548792;asciilifeform;diana_coman: defo of use, plz post. 1927377;1565548866;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i found that stock znc also stores only hour/min. and the historic timestamps being what they are, they are imho of rather questionable use. 1927378;1565548870;mp_en_viaje;wowza, someone else adding bash oneliners to log, ftw! 1927379;1565548878;asciilifeform;atm timestamp is only useful to group into days. 1927380;1565548904;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 'vdiff' was, 2015-2018, a bash 1liner.. 1927381;1565548923;asciilifeform;comp. w/ awk, sed. 1927382;1565548946;mp_en_viaje;aha 1927383;1565548988;mp_en_viaje;i am personally very fond of the bash one liner. imo it is sheer bash-illiteracy that makes all sorts of crapolade like python even appear "useful" 1927384;1565548996;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: If Honda Jet is not designed for hallucinated consumer market, why does it give the pilot "infotainment system", the marketing text is clearly targeted to pete_dushenski and not "Here is small jet for ad-hoc coverage of unpopular routes" 1927385;1565549031;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: at one time asciilifeform wrote sometimes stateful multi-page proggies in bash. but does not post these, it was war crime 1927386;1565549049;mp_en_viaje;in practice, the only difference is-- longer. 1-500 char bash one liners just as expressive, powerful, comprehensible/maintainable as 1-5k loc python chunks. 1927387;1565549054;mp_en_viaje;items past 5k loc don't belong anyway. 1927388;1565549105;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: if in fit of pique you write bash logbot, i promise to read 1927389;1565549163;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, as a factual matter, all the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926726 couldjust as well been one-liners, for a combioned weight of 100kb rather than 100mb 1927390;1565549163;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 05:32:19 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926566 << "After pressing you will need to run npm install from the project directory in order to pull down just under 100mb of depshits in order for this to work." top keks. left you a comment, too. 1927391;1565549211;*;asciilifeform historically found that any bashism that attempts a nontrivial stateful thing, in practice breaks teeth against nonstandard platformisms ('hey grep dun eat -blah on linux circa 2003' etc) and ends up working only where written 1927392;1565549284;*;asciilifeform still, incidentally, waiting for report from anyone re whether asciilifeform's logotron in fact worx somewhere other than where-written... 1927393;1565549294;mp_en_viaje;nothing wrong with that. 1927394;1565549311;mp_en_viaje;https://github.com/Newbrict/bash-irc-bot/blob/master/bot.sh << turns out github has something that pretends to this 1927395;1565549325;mp_en_viaje;in typical scam hub fashion a) calls perl b) piles of .jar 1927396;1565549335;asciilifeform;calls perl << lol!!! 1927397;1565549350;mp_en_viaje;"A simple, modular IRC bot written in bash" 1927398;1565549356;mp_en_viaje;why the fuck are socialists such liars, anyway ? 1927399;1565549389;*;asciilifeform tried, while schoolboy, to write 'B' compiler in awk... 1927400;1565549466;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: you'd choke from laff if you knew what ~else~ can be found on shithub. 1927401;1565549515;asciilifeform;there's this endless parade of 'this is brainfuck in intercal in microshit-buildscript' etc 1927402;1565549516;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4bg2L/?raw=true << there, netcat frontend, loads no blobs. 1927403;1565549527;asciilifeform;aaaha but call netcat! 1927404;1565549532;mp_en_viaje;well yes. 1927405;1565549536;asciilifeform;netcat is almost an adult prog lang by self. 1927406;1565549539;mp_en_viaje;yup. 1927407;1565549545;mp_en_viaje;this is the true bashness of bash. 1927408;1565549568;mp_en_viaje;"aaa but call awk" of course "but awk is basically all of lisp in braindamaged impl" yup. 1927409;1565549575;asciilifeform;bash ~= bottle of epoxy. 1927410;1565549585;asciilifeform;one ~could~ make sofa from epoxy, but... why 1927411;1565549632;asciilifeform;( edison, infamously, in his last yrs, was convinced that furniture from... ferrocement, is Teh Fyootoor ) 1927412;1565549634;mp_en_viaje;imo anyone who attempts to write bash irc bot other than netcat frontend either has nfi what the internet is and therefore never found netcat or has nfi what bash is and therefore doesn't understand why you don't do anything ~in~ it. 1927413;1565549671;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i suppose for 'olympiad' could attempt 'irc client in bash' via 'telnet' rather than netcat 1927414;1565549683;mp_en_viaje;telnet blows 1927415;1565549683;*;asciilifeform has buncha scripts from yrs ago that resemble this 1927416;1565549688;mp_en_viaje;and has, since like 1989 1927417;1565549706;asciilifeform;blows but it's on 'vax' circa '86 , and yer sgi 'octane' etc, and 'netcat' aint 1927418;1565549727;mp_en_viaje;you seriously hack on anything w/o netcat running ? 1927419;1565549741;asciilifeform;not in last decade+ lol 1927420;1565549748;mp_en_viaje;so then wtf are we talking about! 1927421;1565549773;asciilifeform;tryin' to picture why someone would attempt nontrivial proggy in 'bash'. 1 traditional reason is that yer writing a worm. 1927422;1565549784;asciilifeform;(i.e. want run-anywhere-that-gives-shell) 1927423;1565549784;mp_en_viaje;"oh but mp, you bash via screen" yes ? "for olympiad, bash via trepanation" how about you bash your mother via anal hooks instead. 1927424;1565549794;diana_coman;asciilifeform: there's no link for next day on the imported bits (or uhm, can't quite tell where/why?) ; e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-07-16 has no link although there is http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-07-17 ? 1927425;1565549813;diana_coman;onth http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-07 has the link? 1927426;1565549821;asciilifeform;diana_coman: will find out why 1927427;1565550011;asciilifeform;diana_coman: fixed, will cut errata patch 1927428;1565550053;diana_coman;ftr, here's my quick'n'dirty awk that did the trick: awk '/Day changed/ {Month=$5; Day=$6; Year=$7;}! /-|<--|>/ {count++; sep=";"; w= Year " " Month " " Day " " $1 " " $2 " 00"; if ($3 == "*") {pp=$3 sep $4; $4=""; n=5;} else {pp=$3; n=4;}; $1=""; $2=""; $3=""; print count+998966 sep mktime(w) sep pp sep substr($0,n);}' 1927429;1565550074;diana_coman;worth noting that the month was at least numerical rather than "jul" and all that 1927430;1565550211;diana_coman;the 998966 above is lazy-hardcoded, calc based on asciilifeform's first id and the total lines in my log (i.e. so that the ids match perfectly *before* his log) 1927431;1565550303;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, wd! 1927432;1565550377;asciilifeform;diana_coman: [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][tree] updated. 1927433;1565550381;asciilifeform;and on dulap. 1927434;1565550383;diana_coman;heh, it was...cathartic like that, awk-one-liner-does-the-job after ps-ton-does-nothing :)) 1927435;1565550435;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ty for the awk 1927436;1565550461;diana_coman;np; thank you for the logger! 1927437;1565550467;asciilifeform;np 1927438;1565550530;asciilifeform;it's still, i dare say, a quite barbarous logger. ( in coupla wks i expect we'll find out whether in fact asciilifeform cracked the riddle of fleanode socket barf, incidentally ) but imho beats shit out of 'maybe, we have loggers? on warm weather days?' 1927439;1565550565;diana_coman;asciilifeform: barbarous or not, it's the only logger I have logging #ossasepia, you know? 1927440;1565550569;asciilifeform;and with raw export knob i expect it will be relatively painless to bake 'dumb' mirrors ( Troo mirror imho really oughta have own bot !! ) 1927441;1565550628;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i've been fucking fed up for year+ w/ having to beg people to 'pleez reset yer logger' etc 1927442;1565550737;asciilifeform;incidentally this thread opens up ancient q, of whether it'd make sense to bake a 'tmsr distributed storage' item 1927443;1565550833;asciilifeform;prolly would make moar sense to discuss 1nce we have luby/gossipd/etc 1927444;1565550883;diana_coman;I suspect so; there's a shortage of building blocks, not as much of what to do with them 1927445;1565550990;mp_en_viaje;there's actually a shortage of intelligent people who aren't also correspondingly dumb to balance it out. 1927446;1565550995;mp_en_viaje;but i expect that'll be permanent. 1927447;1565551001;asciilifeform;atm we're doing quite a bit of hand-cranked mirrorism for this. but ultimately would make moar sense to have mechanism where gns(....hash....) spits out ~always~ e.g. diana_coman's [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927317][log tape], or logotron.vpatch, or whatnot, for so long as can reach ~any~ tmsr machine 1927448;1565551001;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 14:26:45 deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-589663.txt 1927449;1565551024;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, word. the whole thing dovetails into another angle of whole gns thing indeed. 1927450;1565551025;asciilifeform;( and, ideally, w/out tcpism ) 1927451;1565551029;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: ikr! 1927452;1565551083;asciilifeform;keep in mind, this is ~ancient~ tech, i can connect to e.g. 'emule' net (somehow alive for 20y!!) and put in hash and get e.g. copy of DERIVE.EXE, same one i used in '96 1927453;1565551094;diana_coman;asciilifeform: as I'm still nitpicking the log, was it expecting some space re * and action as this doesn't seem quite ok: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-07-20#999264 ? 1927454;1565551094;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-20 15:36:00 diana_coman;is: looking if shrysr is still breathing or totally shocked. 1927455;1565551117;asciilifeform;diana_coman: phf's did not include space in 'nick;*;payload' 1927456;1565551127;*;diana_coman goes to look in raw 1927457;1565551158;diana_coman;asciilifeform: my tape has no space either 1927458;1565551161;mp_en_viaje;yeah, emule still around, beats gopher for stability. 1927459;1565551179;asciilifeform;diana_coman: lessee.. 1927460;1565551180;diana_coman;but it seems it took "diana_coman;is" as nick? 1927461;1565551236;asciilifeform;this is indeed nogood, will have to find why 1927462;1565551526;asciilifeform;diana_coman: found why. 1927463;1565551543;asciilifeform;diana_coman: you put ; after the nick 1927464;1565551546;asciilifeform;and phf -- did not 1927465;1565551572;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plox to match phf's format, i'ma then snip out the imported tape and re-eat 1927466;1565551581;diana_coman;kk, will do 1927467;1565551590;asciilifeform;(plz to also re-deedbot) 1927468;1565551623;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-11#1927428 << sheesh, I spent a total of 10 hours I'd say on that znc-eater.py and diana_coman solves problem with one line of bash... wd indeed 1927469;1565551623;a111;Logged on 2019-08-11 19:00 diana_coman: ftr, here's my quick'n'dirty awk that did the trick: awk '/Day changed/ {Month=$5; Day=$6; Year=$7;}! /-|<--|>/ {count++; sep=";"; w= Year " " Month " " Day " " $1 " " $2 " 00"; if ($3 == "*") {pp=$3 sep $4; $4=""; n=5;} else {pp=$3; n=4;}; $1=""; $2=""; $3=""; print count+998966 sep mktime(w) sep pp sep substr($0,n);}' 1927470;1565551631;lobbes;incidentally, asciilifeform, I was pretty close to completion (unicode problem solved, and index implemented). Was going to polish it off this evening and genesis but... is it even needed anymore? 1927471;1565551642;lobbes;If not I'll turn my focus to something else 1927472;1565551706;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927380 << I'm learning this lesson painfully 1927473;1565551706;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 15:24:38 mp_en_viaje: i am personally very fond of the bash one liner. imo it is sheer bash-illiteracy that makes all sorts of crapolade like python even appear "useful" 1927474;1565551762;*;asciilifeform delete from loglines where chan = 'ossasepia' and idx < 1000000; and will re-eat when given new 1927475;1565551929;asciilifeform;diana_coman: example : 1925698;1564503441;*;asciilifeform not up to date on subj 1927476;1565551942;asciilifeform;1925392;1564372562;*;lobbes bbl, sleep 1927477;1565551977;asciilifeform;i do not know how he conceived of this format, but i wrote 'eater' to eat it as-given 1927478;1565551998;asciilifeform;when 'action' line, the nick ends up as 1st word of payload string, and where nick oughta be, have '*' . 1927479;1565552005;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927308 <-- nah, ty. I'll consider this the beginning of history for #spyked and feed l0gz to my logotron when I'll stand up 1927480;1565552005;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 13:38:57 asciilifeform: spyked : how about #s . 1927481;1565552013;asciilifeform;spyked: aite! 1927482;1565552086;asciilifeform;i kinda wonder why his raw log aint a sexpr 1927483;1565552096;asciilifeform;( disk space miser??? ) 1927484;1565552179;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i gotta leave console for ~1h, will eat you reground log as soon as get back / is posted. 1927485;1565552186;asciilifeform;*youre 1927486;1565552195;*;asciilifeform brb:teatime 1927487;1565552364;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926869 <-- quite. and btw, to add to the hunchentoot thread, it can be easily adjusted while while running (hence my earlier [http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/097-hunchentoot-iii.html#selection-179.251-179.270][change-class] trick), so despite the ugly pythonesque systems code, it is lispy from a functional pov 1927488;1565552364;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 12:55:26 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926731 << not quite. if snsabot were a cl proggy, i would not need to restart it and lose connection to do [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926802][knob turn]. 1927489;1565552561;diana_coman;meanwhile I actually found 1 instance I missed so I'll tweak a bit the awk (there's a "Log opened" instead of "day changed" and the timing/date there is also different so needs fixed) 1927490;1565552840;diana_coman;updated script: awk '/Day changed/ {Month=$5; Day=$6; Year=$7;} /Log opened/ {Month=$5; Day=$6; Year=$10;} ! /-|<--|>/ {count++; sep=";"; w= Year " " Month " " Day " " $1 " " $2 " 00"; if ($3 == "*") {pp=$3 sep $4 " "; $4=""; n=5;} else {pp=$3 sep; n=4;}; $1=""; $2=""; $3=""; print count+998966 sep mktime(w) sep pp substr($0,n);}' 1927491;1565552907;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1927010 <-- one thing that most likely changed: they bought cars. traffic is a bitch even in that little town, even though it's entirely walkable in a few hours. granted, last time I was in MM was in 2007 and there weren't that many of them, but have only passed through viseu back then 1927492;1565552907;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 17:03:43 mircea_popescu: spyked, holy shit, viseu' did not change AT ALL. 1927493;1565552950;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1927058 <-- tyvm, alf! 1927494;1565552951;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 21:53:03 asciilifeform: spyked , you are now live 1927495;1565553286;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927468 << whole imperial capital ships were repeatedly brought to knees by bash one liners, in elaborately publicly recorded bonfires, you missed all these ? 1927496;1565553287;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 16:09:56 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927380 << I'm learning this lesson painfully 1927497;1565553342;mp_en_viaje;http://trilema.com/2014/askfm-laid-bare-or-whats-half-a-million-uniques-to-you/ ? http://trilema.com/2017/how-the-beastforumcom-private-messaging-function-became-a-paid-user-only-item/ ? http://trilema.com/2016/the-unhappy-new-years-or-look-at-the-difference-a-decade-makes/?b=the%20sed&e=#select ? nope, nothing ? 1927498;1565553358;mp_en_viaje;there's dozens for crying out loud. 1927499;1565553532;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927483 << admittedly this is no small matter. 1927500;1565553532;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 16:20:54 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926869 <-- quite. and btw, to add to the hunchentoot thread, it can be easily adjusted while while running (hence my earlier [http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/097-hunchentoot-iii.html#selection-179.251-179.270][change-class] trick), so despite the ugly pythonesque systems code, it is lispy from a functional pov 1927501;1565553706;diana_coman;!!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KFbsg/?raw=true 1927502;1565553710;deedbot;accepted: 1 1927503;1565553742;diana_coman;asciilifeform: take 2, format at action corrected ^ 1927504;1565553890;diana_coman;fwiw, I diffed the 2 and looked, couldn't find further issues; the nick is now indeed first word of payload when * is nick (on action); + the one case with messed up lines because of Day changed vs. Log opened is corrected too. 1927505;1565553929;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: you actually improved my archive process with just such a bash one-liner. I still use it to this day to get around the 'cloudflare' crapola. But you know, 10 years spent in a pot-induced fog tends to make one miss the obvious. I'm working with a new brain these days 1927506;1565553951;mp_en_viaje;welcome abroad lol. 1927507;1565553961;diana_coman;lobbes: did you actually publish the archive process thing? 1927508;1565553964;mp_en_viaje;you can always tell this story to any of the dorks explaining how drug usage "improves brain function" 1927509;1565553978;mp_en_viaje;"oh, i just use it to relax, man". yeah, careful you don't manage to relax right off the deck. 1927510;1565553983;lobbes;ty lol. And yes, I intend to. I think trinque has been on record saying the same 1927511;1565554004;lobbes;diana_coman: I will once I get some of these other items out 1927512;1565554040;lobbes;I figure I'm still going to publish my znc-eater.py anyways. Make a blog post out of it as a nice example of "why python sucks and bash ftw" if anything 1927513;1565554054;mp_en_viaje;better published than rot. 1927514;1565554268;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-beer-goggling-isnt-natural-and-being-a-good-looking-girl-sucks-from-9-to-5-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Beer Goggling Isn't Natural and Being A Good Looking Girl Sucks From 9 To 5. Adnotated. 1927515;1565554648;asciilifeform;diana_coman: eaten!! 1927516;1565554661;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-07-20#999264 << loox superficially correct. 1927517;1565554661;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-20 15:36:00 diana_coman: is looking if shrysr is still breathing or totally shocked. 1927518;1565555006;diana_coman;asciilifeform: thank you! looks good and my nitpicker can't find anything anymore either. 1927519;1565555049;asciilifeform;diana_coman: np. don't hesitate to add the eater as vpatch (can put in a e.g. 'contrib' subdir, update manifest) . 1927520;1565555095;asciilifeform;i'd prefer to roll up all possible direct growths of the logotron into that tree 1927521;1565555194;diana_coman;asciilifeform: do you mean that awk above or what is "the eater"? 1927522;1565555203;asciilifeform;awk + brief 'how-to' 1927523;1565555240;asciilifeform;diana_coman: my pov, is that would like to get all [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926977]['magick'] the fuck out of logotronics. 1927524;1565555240;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 16:09:23 asciilifeform: ru army philosophy (inherited from sovok) holds that 'magic' is poison. 1927525;1565555261;diana_coman;ah, ah; if you want it there, I can add it (tomorrow though), sure; meant to ask: why no author field in your manifest? 1927526;1565555279;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this is legitimately an omission and feel free to fix 1927527;1565555300;asciilifeform;iirc diana_coman already 1nce caught this and fixed, in ffa tree 1927528;1565555304;mp_en_viaje;incidentally, anyone remember that azn restaurant reviewer dude who killed himself because his homebrew statistics indicated he'll never find twu wuv ? 1927529;1565555350;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: was a #t piece 1927530;1565555353;diana_coman;huh, I actually remember the azn guy + story but can't extract atm direct link, huh 1927531;1565555360;mp_en_viaje;yes, but a name, anything ? 1927532;1565555504;asciilifeform;!qs ldar 1927533;1565555506;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=ldar&chan=trilema][2 results for "ldar" in #trilema] 1927534;1565555512;asciilifeform;iirc ^ in there somewhere 1927535;1565555602;mp_en_viaje;in other lulz, apparently sbc (the ali-g dude) got some "food critic". https://www.reddit.com/r/WhoIsAmerica/comments/99anfn/bill_jilla_has_purged_himself_from_the_internet/ 1927536;1565555748;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, a banned reddit ? 1927537;1565555793;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: iirc it was a redditism (dunno whether had own reddit pit) , meme, 'lay down and rot' (i.e. what to do when yer goose is cooked but not yet gathered courage to eat pistol) 1927538;1565555809;asciilifeform;iirc thread re the restaranteur was discussed then 1927539;1565555931;mp_en_viaje;hm 1927540;1565556020;*;asciilifeform brb:meat 1927541;1565556094;bvt;mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2015/the-mp-suicide-self-evaluation-scale/#footnote_11_59975 1927542;1565556148;mp_en_viaje;speaking of meat btw : isn't it lulzy that all the butthurt coverage of sagawa ([http://www.the13thfloor.tv/2016/06/10/the-horrifying-true-story-of-issei-sagawa-the-celebrity-cannibal/][typical]) somehow omits to mention that since the dude didn't kill anyone again, a) it's very dubious confinement would have helped anything and b) by implication, it's not clear it's such a helpful thing in all the other cases, either. 1927543;1565556192;mp_en_viaje;yay bvt scores! direct hit! tyvm! 1927544;1565556613;lobbes;phew, well my pyturd eater is complete. Gonna eat about 4 years of #e logs for deeding, then genesis teh eater itself and publish 1927545;1565557751;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-being-the-main-character-in-your-own-tv-show-is-sort-of-a-delusion-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Being The Main Character In Your Own TV Show Is Sort Of A Delusion. Adnotated. 1927546;1565558115;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-589684.txt 1927547;1565559050;lobbes;!!deed http://logs.minigame.biz/eulora_log_shitfile_2015_to_2019.txt.asc 1927548;1565559083;asciilifeform;lobbes : 823160;1433446098;*;urov thought ?? 1927549;1565559138;asciilifeform;lobbes: and, e.g. 999999;1565204404;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/07/a-visit-at-the-recycling-of-war-artefacts-museum/ << Ossa Sepia -- A Visit at the Recycling of War Artefacts Museum postdates the birth of the logger, so wai 999999 ? 1927550;1565559163;deedbot;rejected: 1 1927551;1565559196;lobbes;ah fuck. failures all around. Was working in testing. Back to workbench... 1927552;1565559207;asciilifeform;and lol sig borked too ? 1927553;1565559217;mp_en_viaje;bad hair day! 1927554;1565559227;lobbes;it verified for me too, dunno why rejected... 1927555;1565559234;asciilifeform;lobbes: hm is snsabot actually sitting in #e ? i aint tuned in myself, so nfi, maybe glitch ?! 1927556;1565559251;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, indeed it id 1927557;1565559253;mp_en_viaje;is* 1927558;1565559265;asciilifeform;as expected. and apparently 0 lines since it tuned in 1927559;1565559285;asciilifeform;so lobbes how did the diana_coman piece end up in there then 1927560;1565559299;asciilifeform;lobbes maybe you have >1 chan mixed together in yer orig log 1927561;1565559360;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, no, feedbot reads her blog there too 1927562;1565559389;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: then puzzling, cuz http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora is empty 1927563;1565559416;asciilifeform;and diana_coman's defo postdates the revv-up of snsabot 1927564;1565559421;asciilifeform;!quptime 1927565;1565559421;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 1d 20h 26m 1927566;1565559443;asciilifeform;preceded by 25sec reset (hand-cranked) prior to which contin. up since day announced 1927567;1565559444;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-08-07.log.html#t19:00:04 << last item 1927568;1565559444;lobbesbot;Logged on 2019-08-07 19:00:04: http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/07/a-visit-at-the-recycling-of-war-artefacts-museum/ << Ossa Sepia -- A Visit at the Recycling of War Artefacts Museum 1927569;1565559457;lobbes;lol mp_en_viaje beat me to the punch 1927570;1565559461;mp_en_viaje;and incidentally i must say, lobbes 's old logger looks very pretty and moves fast. i always liked it. 1927571;1565559493;lobbes;I always did too, buuut pip-isms :/ 1927572;1565559516;mp_en_viaje;the colorized names work well as an alternative to linecolors imi. 1927573;1565559519;mp_en_viaje;imo* 1927574;1565559550;asciilifeform;lobbes, mp_en_viaje : did feedbot actually emit irc lines in #e ? cuz i'm not seeing either http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-08-03.log.html#t14:41:25 or http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-08-06.log.html#t16:55:36 or http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-08-07.log.html#t19:00:04 in mine ? 1927575;1565559575;lobbes;they are all static pages too. Only time a db query happens is in the search 1927576;1565559580;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i do. 1927577;1565559607;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, yeah you know, can this not be rescued ? i dunno why exactly you're so down on it, but wtf, pretty static pages logotron ftw. 1927578;1565559626;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2019-08-11#1000000 << bot does work. but observe, this is index 1000000 ! i.e. 1st line it ever saw ?!! 1927579;1565559627;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:21:17 asciilifeform: apol. for noise, but must test bot : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927570 1927580;1565559655;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.minigame.biz/search/?q=hurr << search moves fast too. 1927581;1565559697;asciilifeform;i'd like to find out what gives re snsabot in #e 1927582;1565559700;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: well, I still want to complete my own logotron. if there is an interest in a redone version of that old logger, perhaps I can respec 1927583;1565559715;asciilifeform;why lobbes has these feedbot ticks and i not ?? 1927584;1565559730;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.minigame.biz/2016-09-28.log.html << so, so fast on long days too 1927585;1565559733;asciilifeform;#e was tuned in at initial boot, it was not late addition 1927586;1565559746;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i can't imagine ? 1927587;1565559807;asciilifeform;so far only can see that 1) bot is there 2) no missed lines in any other chan 3) logs when i shat there just now 4) indicates that is 1st log line in #e since tuned in 1927588;1565559995;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, maybe you could just make your new logotron use the old ~format~ for spitting out html files ? the format itself must be portable neh ? 1927589;1565560228;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: yeah, I think I might just do that. Make a simple parser that eats (perhaps even from the logbot db) and spits out html. I'll have to think on it 1927590;1565560239;lobbes;not 100% sure yet how this'd go 1927591;1565560246;mp_en_viaje;wait no, i mean... 1927592;1565560263;mp_en_viaje;ok im fully confused. were you making a new logbot or not anymore ? 1927593;1565560398;lobbes;I was going to make a logotron that displays loglines on a www. The logbot itself is already published (the one made by trinque/ben_vulpes) 1927594;1565560450;mp_en_viaje;right. 1927595;1565560469;lobbes;now, I could make a logotron that either displays lines from that db, OR from ZNC logs/irssi logs 1927596;1565560488;lobbes;in my spec before, I was going for something that took the data from the logbot db 1927597;1565560540;lobbes;however, I'm wondering if there is value in just having something that just spits static files in a colorized format (ala the old eulora logger) 1927598;1565560568;lobbes;vs, say, something that queries the db on viewing each log page 1927599;1565560568;mp_en_viaje;here's what i don't understand : 1927600;1565560601;mp_en_viaje;you wrote, at some point, the current item, lobbesbot / http://logs.minigame.biz/ 1927601;1565560610;mp_en_viaje;this works well ; it looks pretty ; it is well stable and so on. 1927602;1565560631;mp_en_viaje;then you decided to re-write it because i dunno why. then you decided to not rewrite it anymore, because too much work. 1927603;1565560657;mp_en_viaje;a) why not genesis the item as is ? b) what exactly is the problem with it anyways ?! 1927604;1565560667;asciilifeform;re #e, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2019-08-11#1000030][thread here] re snsabot 1927605;1565560667;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:31:54 asciilifeform: well no this is a potentially catastrophic bugola 1927606;1565560690;asciilifeform;i'd like to continue it here, if mp_en_viaje dun object 1927607;1565560702;asciilifeform;( given that it aint euloristic as such ) 1927608;1565560724;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2019-08-11#1000056 << rright, that's the interesting part 1927609;1565560725;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:39:43 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, but #eulora is open, can join with no reg 1927610;1565560746;asciilifeform;i'm gonna believe all the folx with raw logz tho, the bot evidently wasn't actually ~there~ until last reset 1927611;1565560803;asciilifeform;this ain't the 'at&t five nines'(tm)(r) level of weatherproofiness that we want ! 1927612;1565560812;asciilifeform;and gotta fix! 1927613;1565560860;asciilifeform;seems like http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2019-08-11#1000055 is the set of possible pills 1927614;1565560861;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:38:49 asciilifeform: there are 3 possible pills : 1) increase delay (and there is no guarantee from fleanode re what suffices) 2) do as ben's bot did, and await the fleanode-specific 'you've been authed' string when connecting 3) perform test re which chans we are in, when connected, and retry until the set of which-chans is equal to the config'd set 1927615;1565560862;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, you can always /userlist see what happesn ? 1927616;1565560893;mp_en_viaje;should produce list of asciilifeform [~asciilife@unaffiliated/asciilifeform ] ov=00 away=0 lt=214 etc 1927617;1565560918;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: this only worx when in a chan neh 1927618;1565560932;mp_en_viaje;well /userlist #channelname 1927619;1565560947;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: regarding a) it is because even if genesis-ed the user would need to install and use pip >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-28#1925233 1927620;1565560947;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-28 13:41:45 lobbes: Chiefly because in order to even install the heathen [https://pypi.org/project/irclog2html/][python coad], you need to first install and use "pip", which is dubious in its own right (see their 'mandatory code of conduct' for starters: https://www.pypa.io/en/latest/code-of-conduct/) 1927621;1565560951;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: regarding b) I see your confusion. I was talking to diana_coman in #o earlier and I realized I have this bad habit of not really explaining my causes for action, nor my causes for changing course. This leads to confusion all around 1927622;1565560957;lobbes;I'll see if I can't make a blog post about this describing the ugliness under the hood of the current #e logger 1927623;1565560965;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: dun seem to work when used on chan that you aint in 1927624;1565560967;lobbes;I'll brb in any case so asciilifeform can debug 1927625;1565560969;asciilifeform;unless i'm doing it wrong 1927626;1565560987;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: tho i suppose this is already enuff to litmus whether in-$chan or not 1927627;1565560988;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, moreover, your reasoning is quite jumpy. who said that the only possible use of genesis'd material is to run it as-is ? conceivably someone might want to import... your html scheme 1927628;1565561006;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i'ma have to add this, to the bot, else it cannot be considered automatic 1927629;1565561013;mp_en_viaje;if it's there this can be done, if it's not there this... can't be done. maybe someone knows how to take pip out of the process. if it's there they'll do it, if not there they won' chase you. and so following. 1927630;1565561018;mp_en_viaje;publish always beats unpublish. 1927631;1565561031;asciilifeform;( until then, errybody plz poke asciilifeform with stick if ever notice that bot is awol !!! ) 1927632;1565561036;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, but that's the point... if you're not in it... dun work... ergo you know you're not in. 1927633;1565561046;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: aha, this oughta suffice 1927634;1565561070;mp_en_viaje;can always /users to see if ircd responds or not 1927635;1565561091;mp_en_viaje;"* 5238 6368 :Current local users 5238, max 6368 * 82886 94773 :Current global users 82886, max 94773" sorta answer. 1927636;1565561095;mp_en_viaje;and so on. 1927637;1565561107;asciilifeform;( for folx who did not read the genesis -- snsabot is 100% 'naked' sockets , dun include any 'irc libs', so entirely possible that i missed some other fleanode wart ! ) 1927638;1565561141;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: correct; current bot actually makes no attempt to determine whether in fact fleanode is on other end, or 'netcat' and silence 1927639;1565561162;asciilifeform;this was deliberate, so can work with e.g. a temporarily-disconnected znc on the other end 1927640;1565561177;asciilifeform;but prolly a liability in re reliably connecting to fleanode 1927641;1565561212;mp_en_viaje;either way you wish to run it, i'm just stating it's there if useful. 1927642;1565561213;asciilifeform;i currently suspect that if i fix this, will lose zncism . can make knob. 1927643;1565561261;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, and more importantly ... if you have it published today to lookat it in 2029 you can ; and if not you... can not. and so on. 1927644;1565561387;mp_en_viaje;in other lulz : anne heche got genital herpes from her father, who "sexually teased" her until she got her period or thereabouts -- this entirely has nothing to do with her "lesbian"-ism ; jessica alba got genital herpes from some indian dude ; paris hilton also got, possibly from dog ; britney spears got it as a teen ; pamela anderson, lindsay lohan (doh)... 1927645;1565561394;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927573 << btw i considered 'shit static pages' . has the obv. costs ( can never put in phf-style backlinks; or rather they then have O(N) cost ; and repair work like http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927470 becomes very, very expensive ) 1927646;1565561395;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:21:38 mp_en_viaje: lobbes, yeah you know, can this not be rescued ? i dunno why exactly you're so down on it, but wtf, pretty static pages logotron ftw. 1927647;1565561395;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 16:10:52 asciilifeform: delete from loglines where chan = 'ossasepia' and idx < 1000000; and will re-eat when given new 1927648;1565561428;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, no, correct way to do this is... as cache. 1927649;1565561438;mp_en_viaje;first time any page is asked for, first look if there already, if not, shit it out. 1927650;1565561451;mp_en_viaje;so WHAT if you end up with 500 versions of "same" page, hurr. 1927651;1565561460;mp_en_viaje;can invalidate cache any time yo uwish also, to "fix" 1927652;1565561469;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i actually have cache, simply snipped out of genesis ver, need a few moving gears to invalidate it on 'tail' ('current') page of log when someone speaks 1927653;1565561479;mp_en_viaje;see ? 1927654;1565561495;mp_en_viaje;it ~makes sense~ to have it as html on disk in this particular application. 1927655;1565561502;mp_en_viaje;rather than as non-htmlized in-ram 1927656;1565561515;mp_en_viaje;because of major apache synergies. 1927657;1565561528;asciilifeform;these caches live in ram ( 'flask' dun offer a disk cache, and it'd nuke the ssd at any rate ) 1927658;1565561558;mp_en_viaje;for the application of logger as we use it, it's immensely better to keep the cache as html files on disk. 1927659;1565561581;asciilifeform;caching isn't magic pill against slow ugh ; if you want backlinkage to work as-expected you end up invalidating pretty much all cache just about erry time someone replies to log line 1927660;1565561598;mp_en_viaje;notrly. 1927661;1565561602;asciilifeform;(granted snsabot/www dun presently do backlinks at all) 1927662;1565561610;mp_en_viaje;the bulk of the cache are historical pages. 1927663;1565561630;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: say i reply to yesterday's line from mp_en_viaje . nao the cached copy of yesterday's log is logically invalid (dun have the backlink to today's reply) 1927664;1565561638;mp_en_viaje;yes. 1927665;1565561648;mp_en_viaje;say you don't reply, just follow a link, a situation 100x more useful. 1927666;1565561658;mp_en_viaje;it didn't have to be recalculated, was on disk. 1927667;1565561673;mp_en_viaje;saved 99% of all the sweat. once you get more than .05 hits/s this will matter. 1927668;1565561696;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: so when does the proggy regen the x-y-z.html on disk ? 1927669;1565561708;mp_en_viaje;whenever they're linked 1927670;1565561721;mp_en_viaje;the whole point re logs is they don't really change except at the tip. like blockchains. 1927671;1565561748;asciilifeform;theoretically this is Right Thing, mp_en_viaje . only headache is that 'flask' etc shitshow doesn't offer any path to it. 1927672;1565561754;mp_en_viaje;yes well. 1927673;1565561761;mp_en_viaje;kinda why i was admiring his "bad" logger. 1927674;1565561764;asciilifeform;hence wai phf's method was Right Thing, and mine not 1927675;1565561770;mp_en_viaje;has some aspects of unmatched goodness. 1927676;1565561793;*;asciilifeform not read how lobbes did log, but from context supposes 'produced dir of static htm's as it went' 1927677;1565561810;mp_en_viaje;well, i expect he'll publish it next week sometime, then can read. 1927678;1565561813;asciilifeform;aha 1927679;1565561833;mp_en_viaje;his logger looks well the fuck better than all the others, tbh. www-side i mean. 1927680;1565561841;asciilifeform;i like the colours 1927681;1565561864;asciilifeform;( personally would leave out the join/partisms but perhaps that's just me ) 1927682;1565561875;mp_en_viaje;could even be knob 1927683;1565561881;mp_en_viaje;?parts=yes 1927684;1565561903;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: this gets sticky. if knobs (incl. my multiline-select knob) suddenly yer disk cache dun do you good 1927685;1565561908;mp_en_viaje;(it is evidently useful to ~save them~, as you found out yourself earlier in #eulora, that the search included them helped you) 1927686;1565561951;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, pages are 50kb at a time. takes a whole lotta them to make a difference. 1927687;1565561953;asciilifeform;( you'd have to cache all possible combos of knobbage, per page ) 1927688;1565561963;mp_en_viaje;yes, but ~only when called~ 1927689;1565561981;asciilifeform;rly there oughta be a apache-end util for this, but iirc mp_en_viaje actually went an' tried 9000 of'em and all were duds 1927690;1565562010;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: what was it you had last tried, iirc 'squid' ? 1927691;1565562057;mp_en_viaje;i don't even fucking rememberr. 1927692;1565562078;mp_en_viaje;did i discuss this on trilema ? 1927693;1565562081;asciilifeform;i quite distinctly recall that it didn't work worthashit, and mp_en_viaje smashed a keyboard or 2 1927694;1565562090;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje iirc was defo a #t article 1927695;1565562096;mp_en_viaje;hm 1927696;1565562130;asciilifeform;( there's no ~logical~ reason for it not to work, it's quite evidently Right Thing; simply happened that all the heathen utils for the job, were liquishit ) 1927697;1565562169;asciilifeform;it remains the case that this is distincly job for the www server frontend, tho, and not individual proggy behind it 1927698;1565562184;asciilifeform;in fact half the point of having that 'apache' to start with 1927699;1565562201;mp_en_viaje;you don't mean like http://trilema.com/2013/if-youre-using-wp-super-cache/ or such, do you ? 1927700;1565562213;mp_en_viaje;php "cache" plugins for wp are very shit. 1927701;1565562214;asciilifeform;nope. moar recent 1927702;1565562215;asciilifeform;'15 iirc 1927703;1565562247;asciilifeform;fwiw i also never was able to get 'squid' to work, and phuctor is cached on 'flask' end (caches expire in 5min, moar than enuff for when some bozo links one on reddit etc) 1927704;1565562262;mp_en_viaje;http://trilema.com/2015/the-sad-story-of-me-sniffing-varnish/ ? 1927705;1565562266;asciilifeform;aha!!! 1927706;1565562267;asciilifeform;it 1927707;1565562274;asciilifeform;was 'varnish' . 1927708;1565562275;mp_en_viaje;this explains it, as i never ran squid to my memory anywhere 1927709;1565562302;asciilifeform;there's coupla dozen of these. afaik none actually work w/out bucket of holy water and incantations 1927710;1565562352;*;asciilifeform brb:meat 1927711;1565562372;mp_en_viaje;varnish can be useful, but yes, bucket. 1927712;1565562382;mp_en_viaje;imo not so useful for the case here, either. 1927713;1565567526;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i'm starting to think, that asciilifeform is doomed to write a www server 1927714;1565567533;asciilifeform;same as was doomed to write logger 1927715;1565567570;asciilifeform;seems to be the experience, that if you want item that actually worx, gotta go an' write... 1927716;1565567711;asciilifeform;looked even at [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-30#1634714][ancient rusty 'five nines' behemoths that apparently work] , for potential dusting off a la gnat. 1927717;1565567712;snsabot;Logged on 2017-03-30 10:38:11 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in the list, it was a 1980s product that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a totem by the folx from yesterday's thread ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633873 ) 1927718;1565567865;asciilifeform;^ example, 1980s swedish item where [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-30#1634769][process migration and realtime redundant computation on multiple irons supposedly worked] 1927719;1565567865;snsabot;Logged on 2017-03-30 10:50:38 asciilifeform: trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked 1927720;1565567924;asciilifeform;i.e. could demand from the log bot to verify that it joins chans, w/out stopping it 1927721;1565567985;asciilifeform;... or, on the other end of things, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-05-07#1911716][snobol] for string-wrangling instead of regexps... 1927722;1565567986;snsabot;Logged on 2019-05-07 22:06:11 asciilifeform: nao! there ~were~ text processors designed by thinking people, where it ~was~ possible to write a readable proggy with predictable failure conditions. e.g. 'snobol'. but these, buried under 30yrs of sediment, will take serious archaeology to unearth. 1927723;1565568017;asciilifeform;* deedbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection) << trinque ? 1927724;1565568023;asciilifeform;trinque werentcha gonna move it ? 1927725;1565568076;*;asciilifeform bbl again : moar meat 1927726;1565568137;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: For quite a while now deedbot has been quit/joining right around 0:00 UTC 1927727;1565568157;BingoBoingo;Ah, how much simpler the world was on its surface a decade ago http://trilema.com/2009/treceti-pe-open-source/ 1927728;1565568514;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell spyked re: http://daimon.me/blog/2012/05/winamp-ruleaza-cat-si-doua-vorbe-despre-linux/#comment-8147 the music player for linux is cmus 1927729;1565568515;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1927730;1565574700;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i can't resist to ask, didja actually work through the ro, or relying on googlefish etc ? cuz if it's the latter, yer certain to step on some sharp nails 1927731;1565574782;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927722 << i have a suspicion that trinque set it to cycle at 0hrs (in frustration re socket wedge ?) 1927732;1565574782;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 20:43:48 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For quite a while now deedbot has been quit/joining right around 0:00 UTC 1927733;1565574831;lobbes;speaking of deedbot down, I can't deed, but new output of #eulora ZNC logz at: http://logs.minigame.biz/eulora_log_2015_to_2019.txt.asc 1927734;1565574845;lobbes;this time with fixed action lines 1927735;1565574878;asciilifeform;lessee 1927736;1565574902;lobbes;though still puzzled why last clearsigned version didn't deed... I checked a few more times for sanity and the sig verified for me 1927737;1565574911;lobbes;wonder if just because it is ~15 MB... 1927738;1565574934;asciilifeform;verifies here 1927739;1565574953;lobbes;ty for checking. Eases my paranoia a bit 1927740;1565575231;asciilifeform;sigs are for to verify, they aint decorative, lol 1927741;1565575429;asciilifeform;lobbes: i'm getting buncha utf8 eggogs when trying to eat in the staging box 1927742;1565575444;asciilifeform;will paste list of indices shortly 1927743;1565575479;lobbes;gross, okay. 1927744;1565575491;lobbes;I have a feeling it may be from spam-fest 2018 >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-09-19.log.html#t16:42:16 1927745;1565575491;lobbesbot;Logged on 2018-09-19 16:42:16: fan іѕ nഠt doing Allah iѕ dоⅰng 1927746;1565575512;asciilifeform;ugh quite a few 1927747;1565575740;asciilifeform;983234;1532548180;*;danielpbarron is legitimate corner case, will have to fix eater.py 1927748;1565575795;asciilifeform;however, lobbes , [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DqdTB/?raw=true][these] all seem to contain mysterious unibarf 1927749;1565575810;asciilifeform;that chokes py's postgres feeder 1927750;1565575918;asciilifeform;lobbes: all seem to be 0xd7 spuriously in line somewhere 1927751;1565575937;asciilifeform;tho not always 1927752;1565575950;asciilifeform;see e.g. idx 867691 1927753;1565575956;asciilifeform;dafuq happened to this log, lobbes 1927754;1565575963;asciilifeform;where did it get shat out of ? 1927755;1565576009;asciilifeform;or see e.g. 869967 1927756;1565576034;asciilifeform;typically lines containing numerics, are littered with bitrotted nonascii 1927757;1565576052;asciilifeform;( and not, as one might expect, ru, or greek, etc. which 100% swallowed a+++ from phf's logs ) 1927758;1565576097;asciilifeform;lobbes: i am not gonna try to clean this, unless there is no other log, i suspect something unspeakable happened to it somewhere in transit to my desk 1927759;1565576120;asciilifeform;lobbes: plox to describe ~exactly~ how you got it when you get chance 1927760;1565576149;lobbes;hmm, okay I will inspect and report back 1927761;1565576255;asciilifeform;i'm even surprised that gpg ate this 1927762;1565576294;lobbes;ftr, here is the current incarnation of the eater.py : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0DrbZ/?raw=true 1927763;1565576320;lobbes;just more to add to the 'python sux' pile I suppose (or perhaps just my coding sux pile) 1927764;1565576377;lobbes;and the logs it ate, for these logs: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-09-19.log 1927765;1565576385;asciilifeform;there's no dispute that py sux 1927766;1565576406;lobbes;of course. pile exists after all! 1927767;1565576420;asciilifeform;lobbes: interestingly, the uni-spam aint where choked 1927768;1565576445;asciilifeform;it seems to ~all consist of actual people ( mircea_popescu et al ) discussing numbers 1927769;1565576457;asciilifeform;take a look at the listed indices 1927770;1565576609;asciilifeform;i.e. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927740 defo not it 1927771;1565576610;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 22:46:22 lobbes: I have a feeling it may be from spam-fest 2018 >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-09-19.log.html#t16:42:16 1927772;1565576610;lobbesbot;Logged on 2018-09-19 16:42:16: fan іѕ nഠt doing Allah iѕ dоⅰng 1927773;1565576734;lobbes;that is odd indeed 1927774;1565576798;asciilifeform;the culprit will have to be found before this archive can be eaten, lobbes ; i suspect that the bitrot aint limited to uniturds 1927775;1565577156;lobbes;oh wow, yeah I'm seeing the bitrot in the ZNC logs I fed to the thing. Very weird. But ty for the list of indicies; this will help 1927776;1565577206;asciilifeform;lobbes: there may be others after 983243 also (current proggy stopped there cuz null line, will fix in coming days, had nfi fleanode permitted lines of length 0) 1927777;1565577219;asciilifeform;err, 983234 1927778;1565577725;lobbes;I'm going to do some manual cleanup of the ZNC logs that correspond to the indicies you mentioned at least. Noted on the 983234 stop point 1927779;1565578156;asciilifeform;lobbes: i recommend to instead find out how the fuck it got into this condition 1927780;1565578167;asciilifeform;( how wouldja fix the numerics, what if the 3s were 7s etc ) 1927781;1565578184;asciilifeform;at the very least you'll want >1 indep. copy of the pertinent lines 1927782;1565578191;asciilifeform;( from diff machines ) 1927783;1565578249;asciilifeform;we'll 'manual clean' if there is 0 other choice, but presently would rather know wtf happened to this thing 1927784;1565578837;asciilifeform;meanwhile, elsewhere, [http://trilema.com/2019/a-nickels-worth-of-clues/#comment-130856][the 'chi non piscia in compagnia' anon in mp's comments] apparently has [http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/][this] as his www ... 1927785;1565578856;asciilifeform;'We Hunted the Mammoth is an ad-free, reader-supported publication written and published by longtime journalist David Futrelle, who has been tracking, dissecting, and mocking the growing misogynistic backlash since 2010, exposing the hateful ideologies of Men’s Rights Activists, incels, alt-rightists and many others.' 1927786;1565578992;asciilifeform;... and epaulettes?! (i.e. long-time reader?) 1927787;1565579865;lobbes;asciilifeform: good point. re: your "if 3s are 7s" example, I already see what you mean... 1927788;1565579868;lobbes;As for *why* these have rotted so: I am not sure. My best guess is that it is because my current #e logotron does many copy operations per hour from the ZNC files (though this is just a stab in the dark; I really don't know if this would cause bitrot) 1927789;1565579877;asciilifeform;climbing upstack, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927615 << lobbes why is this ? i haven't encountered yet a pythonism that actually ~demands~ 'pip', they're all installable manually (and/or, on older gentoo boxen not yet [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-06-23#1919704][hosed] -- via 'portage' ) 1927790;1565579877;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:43:58 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: regarding a) it is because even if genesis-ed the user would need to install and use pip >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-28#1925233 1927791;1565579877;snsabot;Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... ) 1927792;1565579891;lobbes;Hopefully someone else has cleaner ZNC logs. But fwiw in the meantime, I've produced a list of the problem indicies/original logdate/loglines >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3yWtw/?raw=true 1927793;1565579924;asciilifeform;× 1927794;1565579936;asciilifeform;displays an' logs properly tho, here 1927795;1565579953;lobbes;asciilifeform: re: that upstack Q, perhaps you are right. There was a link to some shithub source iirc 1927796;1565579959;asciilifeform;how thefuq did that even come outta anybody's keyboard tho !! 1927797;1565579970;asciilifeform;××××××× 1927798;1565579982;asciilifeform;an' ÷ 1927799;1565580045;asciilifeform;or hm lobbes , can you elaborate re the internals of your thing ? does it put into wp at some pt , and ~it~ 'smartly' replaced % with ÷ and so on ?? 1927800;1565580047;lobbes;in either case, re: upstack I'm going to take mp_en_viaje's advice and just genesis the eulora logger as-is. It is a good point that nobody has to use the genesis *as is* (and indeed, publishing today means I can look back on it tomorrow) 1927801;1565580124;asciilifeform;note also that ~this~ alone wouldn't turn it to barf, the above lines logged and display correctly 1927802;1565580132;lobbes;asciilifeform: essentially, there's a ZNC logger and files. Then I have a cronjob that runs the heathen logs2html, then another cronjob that transfers these files to the /var/www/ side 1927803;1565580148;asciilifeform;ugh wonder if 'logs2html' is it 1927804;1565580157;asciilifeform;cut it open. 1927805;1565580160;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1927806;1565580180;lobbes;could be... hence I think mp_en_viaje is right: I'ma have to publish so the real doctors can help me dissect it 1927807;1565580203;*;lobbes also bbl 1927808;1565596692;spyked;BingoBoingo, re. linux music player: I was using cmus and rhythmbox at the time (and before that I used "banshee", some bloatware written in C#/mono) and they both eventually cracked under the pressure, in different ways (segfault or hanging). so I fell back to more lightweight frontends for mplayer, e.g. mpv, and found out again that scriptability far surpasses the need for any GUI/TUI 1927809;1565596692;lobbesbot;spyked: Sent 7 hours and 49 minutes ago: re: http://daimon.me/blog/2012/05/winamp-ruleaza-cat-si-doua-vorbe-despre-linux/#comment-8147 the music player for linux is cmus 1927810;1565596752;spyked;and by frontend I mean, proggy that receives file as command argument and plays it -- in case of audio file, without spawning anything graphical 1927811;1565596863;*;spyked also tried "mpd" once, but only managed to make system-wide config, no user-level; and iirc launching it required special privileges, so I eventually gave up. 1927812;1565601497;spyked;asciilifeform, minor nitpick re snsabot: I see no difference in the www interface between CTCP actions (the /me thing) and normal replies. e.g. I would expect ^ to be rendered as "spyked also tried ..." instead of "spyked: also tried". 1927813;1565601712;spyked;also, a matter of personal preference: I've grown used to the btcbase behaviour of links opening in a new window. is this desirable/annoying? does anyone else care? 1927814;1565601802;mp_en_viaje;spyked, honestly i wouldn't support the distinction. 1927815;1565601843;mp_en_viaje;and i always ctrl-click anyways so i don't notice ; but i suppose might be desirable for some ? though, why have it baked in when you have the ctrl key to make up your own adventure ? 1927816;1565601873;mp_en_viaje;let links be links and ctrl-click them when you want a new window, why not. 1927817;1565601919;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927723 << pre-poetteering & his ugly children downstream, realise. 1927818;1565601920;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 20:44:08 BingoBoingo: Ah, how much simpler the world was on its surface a decade ago http://trilema.com/2009/treceti-pe-open-source/ 1927819;1565601972;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927726 << this is so, ro trilema utterly unamenable to automation. 1927820;1565601977;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 22:33:12 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't resist to ask, didja actually work through the ro, or relying on googlefish etc ? cuz if it's the latter, yer certain to step on some sharp nails 1927821;1565602000;diana_coman;I also ctrl-click so didn't notice but I don't see the reason to bake in "new window" 1927822;1565602003;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927733 << there's certainly a size limit. 1927823;1565602004;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 22:36:43 lobbes: wonder if just because it is ~15 MB... 1927824;1565602028;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, i have been taking them out from tlp for instance. 1927825;1565602039;mp_en_viaje;target="_blank" nonsense. 1927826;1565602083;mp_en_viaje;wtf pile of eyesore and assorted sadness html spec turns out to have been. all sorts of dangling nonsense a la above, it's the one midden that'll say the least flatterinfg things about humanity to the future archeologist. 1927827;1565602091;mp_en_viaje;"oh, so they were retarded." 1927828;1565602114;diana_coman;spyked: re actions, asciilifeform already responded in #o : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-11#1000090 1927829;1565602116;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 11:03:43 diana_coman: asciilifeform: actions seem to show in logger as text said rather than in any way different; is that intended? I don't quite grok what's the thing with *nick then? 1927830;1565602129;mp_en_viaje;wtf OTHER targets were contemplated such that target=n or target=new were both not good enough ? 1927831;1565602146;diana_coman;hm now - should I have linked his answer rather than the start of the thread? 1927832;1565602178;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, do you see value in maintaining the "ctcp" pile ? 1927833;1565602209;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: myeah, to me all www looks like "big pile of chairs that nobody ever cleaned up at all either" 1927834;1565602269;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: when trying to come up with a reason for it - no, nothing comes up really; 1927835;1565602293;mp_en_viaje;it's basically a tumour grown upon irc protocol. 1927836;1565602309;diana_coman;above it was more of a surprise at "why store it at all if it's not going to make any difference at all anyway" 1927837;1565602313;mp_en_viaje;has this one visible tentac le here, otherwise does all sorta idioti things, i turn it all off on my clients 1927838;1565602357;spyked;diana_coman, ty for the reference. btcbase does distinguish ctcp from the rest of msgs by... removing the ":" after the nick. I don't think it's a big deal either way, just noticed it while reading html log. 1927839;1565602416;spyked;mp_en_viaje, that's a fair point, client behaviour of "open link" (click, ctrl+click etc.) should be a client-side knob. 1927840;1565602443;mp_en_viaje;word. 1927841;1565602563;diana_coman;ctcp does have the flavuor of "improvements by the crowd" 1927842;1565602650;mp_en_viaje;there's dcc, which while useless at least has historical logic, tryna compete in the field of the time, file transfer. because ~anyone wanted irc wanted so as to sext 1927843;1565602675;mp_en_viaje;but ctcp is just wikimedia-ism, stupidity designed by committee of ustards 1927844;1565602838;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927780 << I do not expect that's his blog ; item is work of (relatively) well known internet lulzcow, one David Futrelle, a one-time pick-up artist / big man leadership dood meanwhile turned on the other side of the "BUT OBVIOUSLY, do we still have to DO this" cvasi-debate. 1927845;1565602840;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 23:42:08 asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere, [http://trilema.com/2019/a-nickels-worth-of-clues/#comment-130856][the 'chi non piscia in compagnia' anon in mp's comments] apparently has [http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/][this] as his www ... 1927846;1565602867;mp_en_viaje;the Anon on trilema was for a few years genuine anon person, but then someone figured out the email, like in the satoshi incident later, so now it's in principle anyoen who knows about that. 1927847;1565602875;mp_en_viaje;i dunno if the orig Anon still writes even. 1927848;1565602885;mp_en_viaje;but what am i going to do, break it ? tis history. 1927849;1565602935;mp_en_viaje;https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/David_Futrelle for the drama inclined 1927850;1565603063;diana_coman;it just seemed to me that Anon(s) was pouring so much effort into constructing all sorts of "he's bad" about anyone as soon as it seemed "safe" to do it that..well, maybe he finally gets the idea of pouring that effort into something more useful 1927851;1565603175;diana_coman;historically it just about never goes that way, of course. 1927852;1565603300;mp_en_viaje;the problem with daydreaming is that it's fundamentally uninteresting, even to the kids themselves. 1927853;1565603362;diana_coman;but somehow they still seem perfectly able to go about it until they die (and apparently they don't die of boredom either) 1927854;1565603390;mp_en_viaje;only at certain times. 1927855;1565603423;mp_en_viaje;see, daydreaming as an activity is a switchoff, always there when... reality goes under a certain threshold. daydreaming is the backup girlfriend, the one you call when better plans for friday night failed. 1927856;1565603456;mp_en_viaje;this kinda proves the "fundamentally uninteresting" point to my eyes. 1927857;1565603519;mp_en_viaje;also explains why it never goes that way, like you say. if it's something you only do when you're poor, there's never going to be olympics of it -- those guys ain't poor. 1927858;1565603598;feedbot;http://ave1.org/2019/on-the-road/ << ave1 -- On the road 1927859;1565603807;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, so going by your paste, does ÷ crap out on your encoding covnention then ? it's an obelus 1927860;1565603889;mp_en_viaje;~$ echo "÷" | xxd >0000000: c3b7 0a 1927861;1565603903;diana_coman;o.O ave1 your blog sez "spammers need not apply" to my comment 1927862;1565603916;mp_en_viaje;finally figured you out huh! 1927863;1565603941;diana_coman;I kind of wonder what am I applying for, though! 1927864;1565603972;diana_coman;ftr it didn't even have a link, just a plain sentence (too plain?) 1927865;1565603987;mp_en_viaje;the item sounds like you got a diff comment in the spam queue. 1927866;1565604020;diana_coman;my poor, poor comment 1927867;1565604041;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, and × aka c397 also ? these aren't THAT exotic are they ? 1927868;1565604076;mp_en_viaje;whole thing seems to be mostrly me using the proper math symbols of mult and division. i R-epent ?! 1927869;1565604121;mp_en_viaje;(i end up leaking these in because of other software written by finnicky people who don't like / or * because "there are correct signs for that") 1927870;1565604229;mp_en_viaje;am i being bad here ? 1927871;1565604651;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927792 < what, seriously ? you can just compose : and - in screen. or i think x too. or you know, you \div in latex ? or like... you use R at all. 1927872;1565604651;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 00:00:51 asciilifeform: how thefuq did that even come outta anybody's keyboard tho !! 1927873;1565604666;mp_en_viaje;holy hell how can i be the only one plagued by these. 1927874;1565604805;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927795 << nope, they're in my own logs too seeing how i put them into teh chat with my own hands. 1927875;1565604805;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 00:02:17 asciilifeform: or hm lobbes , can you elaborate re the internals of your thing ? does it put into wp at some pt , and ~it~ 'smartly' replaced % with ÷ and so on ?? 1927876;1565605015;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927802 << it's already turning way more informative than you brooding upon it in solitude, and upon multiple directions too! 1927877;1565605015;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 00:04:32 lobbes: could be... hence I think mp_en_viaje is right: I'ma have to publish so the real doctors can help me dissect it 1927878;1565605111;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927804 << or could also just vlc like normal people. 1927879;1565605111;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 04:39:45 spyked: BingoBoingo, re. linux music player: I was using cmus and rhythmbox at the time (and before that I used "banshee", some bloatware written in C#/mono) and they both eventually cracked under the pressure, in different ways (segfault or hanging). so I fell back to more lightweight frontends for mplayer, e.g. mpv, and found out again that scriptability far surpasses the need for any GUI/TUI 1927880;1565605289;mp_en_viaje;in fairness : winamp is like ida -- people who actually need it, end up running windows FOR it 1927881;1565605882;mp_en_viaje;in other news, holy shit spyked that daimon carcass is sad. whole thing fucking became an epitaph of derealisation. "gândește-te așa: dacă azi ai asculta Mafia pentru prima dată, te-ar impresiona atât de tare încât te-ai duce la un al doilea concert?" ; "mă simt oarecum … scos din schemă. Watching from afar, vorba francezilor. Zbaterile locale devin maxim amuzante. Vin firme noi pe piața din Timișoara, îmi inundă inboxul pe Linked 1927882;1565605882;mp_en_viaje;IN recrutorii. Privesc ușor abulic, „așa, și?”. Se zbat cei din partidele noi să scoată orașul și țara din rahat, chiar fără voia lor. Este amuzant, dar nu mă angajează." 1927883;1565605897;mp_en_viaje;"oh, the notre dame burned down, huh", vorba francezilor. 1927884;1565605915;mp_en_viaje;depressing. 1927885;1565606284;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in pointed counterpoint, [http://bimbo.club/2019/07/checking-in/comment-page-1/#comment-145][bimbo apparently ran into dramas]. 1927886;1565606466;mp_en_viaje;kinda brings some unexplected points in focus : when i started trilema, i was almost 30. when daimon [http://daimon.me/blog/2017/10/zece-ani/#more-4937][ended] his blog, he was almost 30. now compare, from http://daimon.me/aleph/2017/ to http://daimon.me/aleph/2019/ versus http://trilema.com/2009/ to http://trilema.com/20011/ -- how does it come out ? 1927887;1565606565;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: it's "amusing", right? that "oh, how funny you are trying to do something, how entertaining" is such great heights of being great, I can't even 1927888;1565606569;mp_en_viaje;that guy was eminently ALSO capable, in the of-this-list sense fo capacity. he wandered off on his own power, there was no "meet mp" moment iirc. but there's inescapably, overpoweringly, a difference between the daimons (one of the first trilema participants, back in 2009), and the phfs (as it happens, the most recent "victim" of my "abusive" approach to disreality) of the world, and nicole on the other. 1927889;1565606574;mp_en_viaje;and no, the difference isn't the tits. 1927890;1565606608;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, with amusements like that, who even needs strychnine anymore. 1927891;1565606730;ave1;diana_coman: It seems one of your comments ended up in the spambox. Could you try again? 1927892;1565606746;diana_coman;quite; for lack of anyone giving them a good beating when they are so amused, grrr. 1927893;1565606765;mp_en_viaje;why, so they can be "in the hospital" with "a sepsis" ? 1927894;1565606774;mp_en_viaje;for all you know, someone tried. 1927895;1565606792;diana_coman;ave1: works! 1927896;1565606812;mp_en_viaje;ave1, your pics break across the blog 1927897;1565606817;ave1;I am sorry, somehow between all the spam of "I like your writing style" it got eaten. 1927898;1565606824;mp_en_viaje;is this intentional ? 1927899;1565606870;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: hm, it might be, indeed. 1927900;1565606891;mp_en_viaje;Saturday we flew to Ukraine << roflmao wtf, we missed each other by a week then ? 1927901;1565607118;mp_en_viaje;http://ave1.org/comments/feed/ << missed diana_coman not in the feed (and obv also not in the shorted list on blog side) so now i dunno what it was! 1927902;1565607170;ave1;mp_en_viaje: Pics made smaller, was not intentional 1927903;1565607223;ave1;mp_en_viaje: Yes, although we travelled on to Vinnitsa right away and I'l be visiting Kiev for 2 days end of August 1927904;1565607244;mp_en_viaje;im not going back to kiev. 1927905;1565607355;mp_en_viaje;let them figure out how to grow girls that don't look like little boys. 1927906;1565607427;ave1;Yes, they all look like 16 year olds 1927907;1565607455;mp_en_viaje;giving me fucking nightmares. 1927908;1565607523;mp_en_viaje;i didn't mind it so much twenty-odd years ago, but meanwhile apparently it's become intolerable. 1927909;1565607593;ave1;There seem to be 3 states; 16, with child, old 1927910;1565613187;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927867 << this solves ~half~ of lobbes's riddle. observe that they work , when i throw'em in ( as well as all uniturds in phf's and diana_coman's dumps , imported w/out issue ) 1927911;1565613188;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 06:54:58 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927795 << nope, they're in my own logs too seeing how i put them into teh chat with my own hands. 1927912;1565616669;diana_coman;asciilifeform and anyone else interested in the awk log converter from irssi : http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-985.0-985.18 1927913;1565616753;diana_coman;I patched it on top of asciilifeform's tree as promised yesterday http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927521 (+ added the author field in manifest file) + mirrored the full logotron tree on my page 1927914;1565616754;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 17:09:12 diana_coman: ah, ah; if you want it there, I can add it (tomorrow though), sure; meant to ask: why no author field in your manifest? 1927915;1565616758;asciilifeform;ty diana_coman . i will mirror it & the sigs on my www also. 1927916;1565616809;diana_coman;asciilifeform: it turns out I don't even usually have flask and psycopg2 on my machines 1927917;1565616870;diana_coman;in fairness, I don't use python much - last time I used it was years ago for generating the Eulora cookbook aka a bunch of static html pages from various data 1927918;1565616945;asciilifeform;diana_coman: they don't come with the interpreter ( hence mentioned as deps ) 1927919;1565616985;asciilifeform;on an unborked gentoo box, they build via 'emerge' ; otherwise by hand 1927920;1565617946;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927871 <-- also worx. afaik they use the same codecs for the most part, ffmpeg mostly. 1927921;1565617947;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 07:00:04 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927804 << or could also just vlc like normal people. 1927922;1565618085;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927874 <-- will quote straight from [http://trilema.com/2009/krossfire-sau-vlad-stoiculescu/#comment-127461][teh book]: "exista un pericol foarte concret, anume ca daca unu' sta tot numa' cu prosti ajunge si el pina la urma prost, indiferent ce era la-nceput. Tot asa daca stai numa-ntre obiecte imaginare exista riscul foarte ~concret~ sa te dezintegrezi in 1927923;1565618086;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 07:12:56 mp_en_viaje: in other news, holy shit spyked that daimon carcass is sad. whole thing fucking became an epitaph of derealisation. "gândește-te așa: dacă azi ai asculta Mafia pentru prima dată, te-ar impresiona atât de tare încât te-ai duce la un al doilea concert?" ; "mă simt oarecum … scos din schemă. Watching from afar, vorba francezilor. Zbaterile locale devin maxim amuzante. Vin firme noi pe piața din Timișoar 1927924;1565618091;spyked;tru imaginar." which looks like the main issue: while scrolling on "fb feed" back in 2014, /me felt how he was becoming dumber. 1927925;1565618129;spyked;hm, I think he was on #t at some point tho? 1927926;1565618134;spyked;!q from:alex 1927927;1565618135;snsabot;spyked: my valid commands are: seen, s, src, help, uptime 1927928;1565618142;spyked;!qs from:alex 1927929;1565618143;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=from%3Aalex&chan=trilema][23 results for "from:alex" in #trilema] 1927930;1565618399;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927806 << 'mplayer' is all i have on most boxen (the ones which even have sound..) 1927931;1565618400;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 04:40:45 spyked: and by frontend I mean, proggy that receives file as command argument and plays it -- in case of audio file, without spawning anything graphical 1927932;1565618418;asciilifeform;the shell one, that is, none of the (why??) x11 crapola 1927933;1565618502;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927817 << it's actually on the list, simply didn't make it into the 1st ver. asciilifeform for instance sometimes reads log on pnojes and similar keyboardless terminals, it is handy there. 1927934;1565618503;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 06:08:14 diana_coman: I also ctrl-click so didn't notice but I don't see the reason to bake in "new window" 1927935;1565618532;asciilifeform;if mp_en_viaje et al have strong opinion on subj, i'ma make it a knob 1927936;1565618563;asciilifeform;even on proper pc, imho 'overwrite the log tab' is ~never the desired behaviour 1927937;1565618607;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927840 << vaguely suspected it was a trololol link rather than his actual www... 1927938;1565618607;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 06:22:11 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927780 << I do not expect that's his blog ; item is work of (relatively) well known internet lulzcow, one David Futrelle, a one-time pick-up artist / big man leadership dood meanwhile turned on the other side of the "BUT OBVIOUSLY, do we still have to DO this" cvasi-debate. 1927939;1565618632;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927831 << what else is in that pile ? 1927940;1565618633;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 06:13:12 mp_en_viaje: it's basically a tumour grown upon irc protocol. 1927941;1565618697;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927864 << i must be the only 1 who runs a 7bit ascii shell... 1927942;1565618698;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 06:52:24 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927792 < what, seriously ? you can just compose : and - in screen. or i think x too. or you know, you \div in latex ? or like... you use R at all. 1927943;1565618726;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927873 << can't resist to ask, for what might 'need' it ? oddball 1990s format ?? 1927944;1565618726;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 07:03:03 mp_en_viaje: in fairness : winamp is like ida -- people who actually need it, end up running windows FOR it 1927945;1565618753;diana_coman;spyked: fwiw re daimon - he came in and asked me for a rating years ago as if it was a village and I should know it was "him"; once I figured out which "Alex" he was, I rated him; then even pulled and pushed him to try eulora - he resisted it and never made it. 1927946;1565618783;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927808 << this also on to-do list, but atm dead last 1927947;1565618783;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 05:59:50 spyked: asciilifeform, minor nitpick re snsabot: I see no difference in the www interface between CTCP actions (the /me thing) and normal replies. e.g. I would expect ^ to be rendered as "spyked also tried ..." instead of "spyked: also tried". 1927948;1565618803;asciilifeform;wanted to nail down the basic knobs before any 'decorative' 1927949;1565619237;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927881 << not familiar with this one. from ~what~ did he wander off, and of what was capable ? 1927950;1565619237;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 07:24:23 mp_en_viaje: that guy was eminently ALSO capable, in the of-this-list sense fo capacity. he wandered off on his own power, there was no "meet mp" moment iirc. but there's inescapably, overpoweringly, a difference between the daimons (one of the first trilema participants, back in 2009), and the phfs (as it happens, the most recent "victim" of my "abusive" approach to disreality) of the world, and nicole on the other. 1927951;1565624109;asciilifeform;spyked: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452&cpage=1#comment-19817 1927952;1565624483;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/12/camera-tests-of-a-sunday/ << Ossa Sepia -- Camera Tests of a Sunday 1927953;1565626410;asciilifeform;diana_coman: [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][logotron tree] updated. ty for the patch . 1927954;1565627120;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927918 << mostly on fain, i think. 1927955;1565627120;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 10:37:04 spyked: hm, I think he was on #t at some point tho? 1927956;1565627205;*;asciilifeform waves to mp_en_viaje 1927957;1565627271;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927917 << i don't think that's the ~main~ issue. i think that's the secondary issue ; with the main issue being http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926670 -- specifically that anything crawling out of cunt can be taught to be polite, socially inocuous, culturally unobtrustive, etc. but NOT everything can be taught to have something to say, a driver inside, the thing here sometimes 1927958;1565627271;mp_en_viaje;refered to as "a soul" when contrasted with that drawing of replicants, or "theorems to prove" when discussing the lost to nativity. 1927959;1565627271;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 10:36:26 spyked: tru imaginar." which looks like the main issue: while scrolling on "fb feed" back in 2014, /me felt how he was becoming dumber. 1927960;1565627272;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:02:39 mp_en_viaje: 3) the whole of it was always hanging out with the cool people. i don't mean, "cool", as in, swag. i mean cool as in david lynch quote above, dork bought a 12 room house for $3500 in th worst gangland he could find for his wife and newborn kid and lived there, "the fear was palpable" 1927961;1565627276;mp_en_viaje;because that can't be taught, obviously. 1927962;1565627281;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, hi there. 1927963;1565627383;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927928 << i'd rather you just leave links plain ; but i don't have that strong feelings on the matter. 1927964;1565627384;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 10:43:46 asciilifeform: if mp_en_viaje et al have strong opinion on subj, i'ma make it a knob 1927965;1565627443;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: tried to make 'new tab'ism go this morning, when spyked mentioned it, but it'll take some fiddling -- interacts poorly with the regexp-based link highlighting i used in this hasty drumhead logger. so prolly won't happen until much later. 1927966;1565627512;asciilifeform;( in re knobs, 1 optional toggle that asciilifeform wanted for many yrs -- but dun have yet -- is a 'reverse gear', i.e. display log 1st line on top of screen and down. but this, also, later. ) 1927967;1565627556;asciilifeform;while on subj of logger : mp_en_viaje do you still find that 'teletype' ? current ver is ~2x faster than 1st 1927968;1565627649;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927932 << holy hell, i'm not equal to that task. besides ctcp and dcc, there's even a microsoft-led attempt at embrace-and-extinguish from the 90s (it went nowhere) ; there was a broadly accepted pantsuitization of irc cca 2005 ("isupport"), various nsa-sponsored nonsense ("dancer", "hyperion", "protoctl")... 1927969;1565627650;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 10:45:27 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927831 << what else is in that pile ? 1927970;1565627675;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: afaik we dun use these for anyffin 1927971;1565627691;mp_en_viaje;part of them are baked in, freenode runs ircd 3 1927972;1565627694;asciilifeform;( nor do they have any relevance to how to write bots ) 1927973;1565627713;asciilifeform;so far the only fleanode nail i've stepped on, is that 'maybe you joined chan or maybe not' thing 1927974;1565627715;mp_en_viaje;http://www.stack.nl/~jilles/cgi-bin/hgwebdir.cgi/irc-documentation-jilles/file/tip/reference/draft-meglio-irc-handshake-00.txt << o look, this disappeared 1927975;1565627768;asciilifeform;current snsabot ignores all fleanode-generated rubbish (only processes traditional messages, such as spoken in chans, errything else is dropped silently) 1927976;1565627834;mp_en_viaje;good 1927977;1565627874;asciilifeform;haven't observed , in particular, the effect [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452&cpage=1#comment-19816][mentioned by spyked] 1927978;1565627908;asciilifeform;( which dun mean it is illusory; snsabot has been on the air for BingoBoingo, typical tropes of oldwoman fiction. << Typical tropes in a particular case that have high lulz potential Q3-Q4 of next year when North Argentina recycles 1928121;1565645209;asciilifeform;nobody has said anyffin re the checkerboard, i'ma keep it as stands then unless someone reports that it makes eyes bleed 1928122;1565645475;asciilifeform;( and it'll go into the next patch ) 1928123;1565645575;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928103 << in a word, i dunno it'd make a difference ; but it's the sorta thing only time will really tell. 1928124;1565645575;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 17:39:54 bvt: so far i've been doing everything manually. for 10 vpatches, i would start automating the process. typicall i'd run full test set for each vpatch 1928125;1565645621;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928114 << tis fine imo! 1928126;1565645622;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 18:08:25 asciilifeform: nobody has said anyffin re the checkerboard, i'ma keep it as stands then unless someone reports that it makes eyes bleed 1928127;1565645630;asciilifeform;aite 1928128;1565645658;asciilifeform;i made the coloured blocks the lightest shade that'd still be distinguishable on my displays, imho this is Right Thing 1928129;1565645876;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927665 << this , btw, will require some thought -- presently wwwtron has nfi 'when someone speaks' , can only query the db ( as can be seen in the 'last time anyone spoke' section of proggy ) which itself takes time 1928130;1565645877;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:56:38 mp_en_viaje: whenever they're linked 1928131;1565645910;mp_en_viaje;i don't get it ?! 1928132;1565645921;asciilifeform;in re when to blow cache 1928133;1565645929;asciilifeform;i was baking the cache 1928134;1565645960;mp_en_viaje;ok, but you can have the logger blow the cache for the www 1928135;1565645965;mp_en_viaje;nobody says www has to blow it 1928136;1565645978;asciilifeform;not trivially, but yes, would have to 1928137;1565646000;asciilifeform;( currently the only means of communication b/w logger and www end, is (excepting the search fetch) -- the DB ) 1928138;1565646023;mp_en_viaje;have the logger simply delete the file whenever it runs into a logreference. eg if i say http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-08-12#1841030 it erases 2018-08-12.html 1928139;1565646024;snsabot;Logged on 2018-08-12 11:20:24 asciilifeform: ( 4x, as large as can be had. ) 1928140;1565646030;mp_en_viaje;www reconstructs it next someone calls that url. 1928141;1565646054;asciilifeform;the logger is built deliberately not to assume that it is on same box as www. 1928142;1565646076;asciilifeform;( plan is to have >1 , eventually, even inside this 1 system ) 1928143;1565646119;mp_en_viaje;hm 1928144;1565646133;mp_en_viaje;nfi why youd do it like that. 1928145;1565646148;asciilifeform;to keep all wwwism inside the wwwtron, and all ircism inside irctron. 1928146;1565646160;mp_en_viaje;but they share a db and a filesystem, and are on same box. 1928147;1565646166;asciilifeform;currently they indeed do. 1928148;1565646177;mp_en_viaje;imo this should be set in stone. 1928149;1565646201;asciilifeform;in that case may as well make'em same proggy. tho i like being able to reset the www displayer w/out affecting bot. 1928150;1565646211;mp_en_viaje;so then that's why not make them same proggy 1928151;1565646216;asciilifeform;cuz of the above. 1928152;1565646232;asciilifeform;whythefuck throw the bot's connection simply to change colour of wwwism etc 1928153;1565646245;mp_en_viaje;but it makes perfect sense to make them same unit, and make multiples of the complete unit if need be for reliability. it makes anti-sense to create "across-box" db edges, and try and maintain the nonsense army of unlilely units that don't work separately anyway 1928154;1565646288;asciilifeform;currently they do work separately, if one were to tunnel the pgism. but mp_en_viaje has the point, that 'who knows if this even will ever be needed' 1928155;1565646289;mp_en_viaje;while it's sensible to have www and logbot separate programs, it makes stupid to have them on separate boxes. 1928156;1565646351;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in goange, i give you https://imgs.mongabay.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2019/02/15234715/Schizodactylus-monstrosus-from-Arunachal-Pradesh-.-768x512.jpg 1928157;1565646376;asciilifeform;hm prolly i oughta have done it phuctor-style (where there's 1 .py and it can run either as wwwtron or 'eater' depending on cmdline params. ) 1928158;1565646388;asciilifeform;that way reduce to 1 proggy, and all of the shared routines unduped. 1928159;1565646395;mp_en_viaje;or separate altogether, either way really. 1928160;1565646404;mp_en_viaje;could lib out the shared routines i guess 1928161;1565646439;*;asciilifeform dislikes pyistic libism , it spirals into insanity pretty quickly and makes testing / swaps of proggy on live box complicated 1928162;1565646449;mp_en_viaje;no argument here 1928163;1565646471;mp_en_viaje;point being, some duplication will hurt ~nothing anyway. you can keep them as they are, just drop the spurious design constraint 1928164;1565646476;asciilifeform;already this thing is eating surprising amt of hand-cranking 1928165;1565646483;mp_en_viaje;then you can have logbot invalidate cache and wwwtron construct cache and happy life. 1928166;1565646530;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: re 'delete file', it isn't quite a simple, cuz fs ops are potentially locking. i elided what means 'wipe the cache' for brevity, but there's a knob. 1928167;1565646561;asciilifeform;*as simple 1928168;1565646586;mp_en_viaje;a rm will block ~nothing 1928169;1565646625;asciilifeform;i thought this also, when had pre-PG phuctor. turns out ~nothing is measurably > nothing, lol 1928170;1565646630;mp_en_viaje;lol 1928171;1565646632;mp_en_viaje;well, aite 1928172;1565646677;asciilifeform;this is actually the interesting thing about multiprocesstronic proggies. as alluded to by [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452&cpage=1#comment-19816][spyked] . the improbable -- is certain to eventually happen. 1928173;1565646684;asciilifeform;( and typically sooner than you think ) 1928174;1565646762;asciilifeform;dijkstra spent whole life killing trees on subj of deadlocking etc. but the subj is deep enuff for 9000 dijkstras. 1928175;1565646911;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928149 << pretty great. tropical cricket ? 1928176;1565646911;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 18:27:27 mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in goange, i give you https://imgs.mongabay.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2019/02/15234715/Schizodactylus-monstrosus-from-Arunachal-Pradesh-.-768x512.jpg 1928177;1565646928;mp_en_viaje;some indian atrocity. 1928178;1565647556;mp_en_viaje;anyone recall the trilema article (maybe comment ?) where i was explaining that choice's not constructive, one gotta pick A-or-B or else C-or-D, can't pick imaginarily A-or-D because D doesn't exist in a system with A. 1928179;1565647662;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga/ ? 1928180;1565647690;mp_en_viaje;nah, maor recent 1928181;1565648190;mp_en_viaje;gah this is frustrationg 1928182;1565649818;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-biology-is-destiny-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Biology Is Destiny. Adnotated. 1928183;1565655720;asciilifeform;soo, in strange findings: on dulap, 'time curl http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log' yields 2.342s; ( from my chair, same -- 2.455s ); but on identical (3m ago) clone of db , running locally, on substantially slower box, 0.252s ! 1928184;1565655744;asciilifeform;dulap aint currently swamped with loads, either 1928185;1565655781;asciilifeform;( on either log or phuctor ) 1928186;1565655878;asciilifeform;i'm beginning to suspect that the indices work here (pg 9) and not there (10) 1928187;1565655889;asciilifeform;i.e. silently fail 1928188;1565655942;asciilifeform;... which is odd, cuz phuctor's -- work 1928189;1565656104;asciilifeform;interestingly, seems to vary there by factor of ~2x ! 1928190;1565656136;asciilifeform;but!! only via apache ! i.e. time curl http://127.0.0.1:5002/log dun show either the variance or the slowdown. 1928191;1565656167;asciilifeform;culprit, apparently , the frontend 1928192;1565656368;asciilifeform;... 100% of the time diff, apparently, in response req time 1928193;1565659050;asciilifeform;err, nginx there, presently. interestingly, set up as experiment 'wsgi', python's equiv. of php's 'mod-php', and made ~no measurable diff ! 1928194;1565659159;asciilifeform;actual generation of e.g. current /log, takes 0.073s ! 1928195;1565659192;asciilifeform;approx 0.2s is eaten by transmission on net from BingoBoingostan to my chair; the rest is eaten by the www server somehow 1928196;1565659339;asciilifeform;cachism is apparently red herring, the proggy is actually fast enuff. there is parasitism in the loop. 1928197;1565659427;asciilifeform;reason why never noticed this effect with phuctor, is that its pages are small 1928198;1565659529;asciilifeform;i'ma have to set whole orchestra up on a box w/ classic apache, to see whether same thing 1928199;1565659605;asciilifeform;( and if cures, move dulap entirely to classic apache. back in the old days went w/ 'nginx' because slightly moar miserly re memory ) 1928200;1565661617;*;asciilifeform squeezed out a bit of the delay via knob-turning but this is still ridiculous 1928201;1565661793;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat 1928202;1565667415;asciilifeform;nao almost tolerable 1928203;1565671423;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr-vpatch/ << lobbesblog -- znc2tmsr vpatch 1928204;1565671543;lobbes;^ asciilifeform, et al. 1928205;1565671645;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927288 << archiver back online btw (it has been chugging through the backlog for the last 4 hours or so) 1928206;1565671647;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 09:25:32 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927269 << cool deal. 1928207;1565671656;*;lobbes bbl sleep 1928208;1565688036;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928191 << you know, someone fucked something up somewhere, because recall http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922400 ? sounds exactly the same, server just sits there for MINUTE before serving anything, for no reason. this didn't use to be the case, i suspect some "upgrade" broke the stack you two both happen to use ? 1928209;1565688036;a111;Logged on 2019-07-14 08:12 mp_en_viaje: so since thelastpsychiatrist.com went all fucking stupid (cloudflare aside, and mountain of pointless js aside, there's a spurious 1min delay before any pageload also now!), i scraped the article list both from archive page and category page, and downloaded the list. 1928210;1565688037;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 22:07:05 asciilifeform: i'ma have to set whole orchestra up on a box w/ classic apache, to see whether same thing 1928211;1565688075;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928198 < tyvm! 1928212;1565688076;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 01:29:02 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927288 << archiver back online btw (it has been chugging through the backlog for the last 4 hours or so) 1928213;1565688231;mp_en_viaje;https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-city-considers-lifting-hostel-ban-to-lure-more-tourists-11565649721 << in other fucking lulz, new york joins the chase for norse retards. 1928214;1565688256;mp_en_viaje;maybe they could add the fat black woman at airport to dole out cabs to a queue ? god knows new york's prime for that. 1928215;1565692908;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/bring-it-on/ << Trilema -- Bring It On 1928216;1565693447;mp_en_viaje;hoooly shit, i woke up by myself. 1928217;1565697583;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: plox to try the 'heavy' log pgs, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1927995 1928218;1565697584;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-12 13:29:09 mp_en_viaje: and yes alflog still teletype, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 loaded in ~5s 1928219;1565697743;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928201 << i dun 'upgrade', lol. and also admittedly never before tried to get a www to load in <1s specifically. ( btw -- does trilema for all pgs ? ) 1928220;1565697743;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 06:02:15 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-12#1928191 << you know, someone fucked something up somewhere, because recall http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922400 ? sounds exactly the same, server just sits there for MINUTE before serving anything, for no reason. this didn't use to be the case, i suspect some "upgrade" broke the stack you two both happen to use ? 1928221;1565697833;asciilifeform;if somebody's sat for ~minute~ , sounds like sslism ( not in use on dulap and never will be ) 1928222;1565697884;*;asciilifeform brb, meat 1928223;1565698131;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/holy-shit-i-woke-up-by-myself/ << Trilema -- Holy shit, I woke up by myself. 1928224;1565704243;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, looks like about 1-2s for a large (400kb) page ([https://tools.pingdom.com/#5b22cec884000000][a] ; [https://gtmetrix.com/reports/trilema.com/zh1SgCfz][b]), though id you actually look into the waterfalls the page itself is composed in 400-500ms, the rest being wats for random repeatable elements (which most browsers don't re-load) like avatar.pngs favicon.ico sbtop.png etc 1928225;1565704463;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: log now also 1-2s here ( ~3 for the 'heavy' historic pg linked earlier ) 1928226;1565704503;asciilifeform;but would like to confirm that other folx see similar figure, and aint an artifact of asciilifeform's local cachism 1928227;1565704526;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: ty for the tool link, will try with it 1928228;1565704551;*;asciilifeform not habitual wwwist and was unaware this existed 1928229;1565704561;mp_en_viaje;$ time curl http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09 yields real 0m5.405s 1928230;1565704689;mp_en_viaje;tbh in your case looks mostly like slow / poorly burstable pipe ; if you look at the waterfal it's mostly grey (receiving), 95% of the 2.x seconds they wait 1928231;1565704738;mp_en_viaje;use the mouse hoover tooltips, they're informative. anyways, the webpage itself is good grade, by web standards. 1928232;1565704772;mp_en_viaje;3s for 80kb is scandalous, but i'd say it's the poor q of your bw, nothing you can do about that from software. 1928233;1565704814;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: hm why graphic browser gives < 1s for same here ? 1928234;1565704823;diana_coman;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928221 -> I got real0m9.634s 1928235;1565704824;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 10:37:40 mp_en_viaje: $ time curl http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09 yields real 0m5.405s 1928236;1565704824;asciilifeform;perhaps curl dun eat gzip 1928237;1565704844;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, possibly because caches. 1928238;1565704856;mp_en_viaje;hit shift-ctrl-r or w/e invalidates all cache in your browser 1928239;1565704871;asciilifeform;knew this, same sans cache 1928240;1565704928;asciilifeform;something is odd, i sat all evening last night reading vintage #t logz via my displayer and none ate >3s 1928241;1565704949;mp_en_viaje;who even knows, maybe "smart router" decided to priviledge you connection 1928242;1565704951;asciilifeform;( after upped buffer on box and reenabled gzipism ) 1928243;1565705063;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: possibly i did not elaborate , but on box's own shell, if viewing through ngx , fully 1-2s moar delay than if direct to port where py proggy 1928244;1565705082;asciilifeform;and in fact accts for all but ~70msec of a heavy pg 1928245;1565705187;asciilifeform;i found no obvious cause, but in process of knob turning combinatorics cut the delay somewhat ( seems to only be detectable in graphic wwwtrons tho, and , annoyingly, cannot actually get useful number from those, unlike curl ) 1928246;1565705276;asciilifeform;tried large buffers, no buffers, various tcpism knobs, no obv culprit for the impedance mismatch (what i suspect this is ) 1928247;1565705410;asciilifeform;pretty certain that the pipe itself is blameless, i get consistent realtime work through it, not once long pings much less subjective feel of 'mars probe' 1928248;1565705434;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, do inspect element or similar, developer toolbox, we 1928249;1565705442;mp_en_viaje;all gfx browsers have a timer thing 1928250;1565705539;asciilifeform;was looking at https://gtmetrix.com/reports/logs.nosuchlabs.com/m3to2XTx , somewhat cryptic, will check out others 1928251;1565705574;asciilifeform;iirc chromisms have timer, i have box w/ one 1928252;1565705805;mp_en_viaje;firefox too 1928253;1565705811;mp_en_viaje;unless they took it out, like the screenshot thing 1928254;1565705993;asciilifeform;https://tools.pingdom.com/#5b22d518dfc00000 << this one confirms my init observ., almost whole second in 'connect' + 'wait' ( and 5 in receive , doesn't say in what pattern, but visually curl in the 'slow even on local shell' variant appears 'bursty' ) 1928255;1565706532;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928224 << ftr i routinely get 1-2 MB/s from my chair to dulap and reverse 1928256;1565706533;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 10:41:12 mp_en_viaje: 3s for 80kb is scandalous, but i'd say it's the poor q of your bw, nothing you can do about that from software. 1928257;1565706706;asciilifeform;it aint best possible pipe, but pretty good; and , as i pointed out already, effect persists ~without~ it ( i.e. operating curl within dulap shaves only 200msec vs to my chair; and has same peculiar 'burst' pattern and wild variance in total time ) 1928258;1565707211;asciilifeform;via chromistic timer , get 1.40s for the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801][heaviweight sample] 1928259;1565707211;snsabot;Logged on 2018-04-18 21:58:18 mircea_popescu: in unrelated news : i can't recommend the dsc-rx100 quite warmly enough. it's a splendid sony compact with zeiss lenses that's easily the best camera i ever saw. 1928260;1565707296;asciilifeform;this thing dun seem to distinguish the phases of the load tho (only distinguished load from rendering, and cuts the latter into phases. which makes a kind of sense, tool is evidently for debug of 'slow cuz hands of who wrote html-shitter grow from arse' scenarios ) 1928261;1565707408;*;asciilifeform will try on various FF later today. other folx welcome to report theirs. 1928262;1565707820;asciilifeform;if this box weren't also running phuctor, could simply hang the logger on port 80 and get, theoretically, 200-300msec loads, loox like. 1928263;1565707843;asciilifeform;aint nginx, apache, etc supposed to ~cure~ impedance mismatches, rather than cause'em... 1928264;1565711251;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928196 << lobbes does this result in same eggogs when eating your archive as before ? 1928265;1565711251;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 01:25:21 feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr-vpatch/ << lobbesblog -- znc2tmsr vpatch 1928266;1565711489;asciilifeform;btw time curl -H "Accept-Encoding: gzip" http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log yields avg. 0.4s . so indeed default curl dun eat gzip. 1928267;1565711502;asciilifeform;this aint a cure tho (afaik not all browsers eat it) 1928268;1565711572;asciilifeform;the 'heavy' page -- 1.4-2s avg. on same 1928269;1565711636;asciilifeform;( from asciilifeform's chair ; 0.9 when executed locally on dulap , via ng i.e. the public url ) 1928270;1565714596;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/O9moB][the 'heavy' pg again, via yet another 'www debugger']. 0.5s time-to-first-byte ! ..and defo shows the 'burst' pattern. 1928271;1565714754;asciilifeform;or hm, possibly misread, and it's 0.737s 1928272;1565714796;*;asciilifeform has nfi why the # given for 'all' vs the 1st 'resource' could differ 1928273;1565715030;asciilifeform;it is even possible that the pipe is to blame, i.e. the measurement is 'random' depending on how congested the pipe at piz on acct of e.g. the multiple trb noads sitting there 1928274;1565715087;asciilifeform;however : 1928275;1565715119;asciilifeform;e.g. time curl "http://ossasepia.com/" > /dev/null >> real 0m1.597s and weighs 108k atm 1928276;1565715133;asciilifeform;so i still suspect it aint the pipe ( diana_coman lives at piz ) 1928277;1565715183;asciilifeform;all the clues point to nginx. 1928278;1565715773;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/SwxyQ][for comparison : diana_coman's www via this same tool] . 1928279;1565716072;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/11cZC][for non-piz comparison : trilema www, via same . ] 1928280;1565716133;*;asciilifeform now thoroughly stumped, ~all 3~ seem to show ~same 'time to first byte' 1928281;1565716369;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/WL8s3][and now phf's log -- of 'heavy' pg -- via same.] pretty interesting. total load time (to the tester author's box) -- 0.646s ; 1st byte -- 0.254s . 1928282;1565716423;asciilifeform;i'm beginning to suspect that nginx, apache, etc. are intrinsically dead weight, when sat in front of a programmatic html shitter 1928283;1565716453;asciilifeform;and that phf did not use these, but hung up his logger straight on port80 1928284;1565716639;asciilifeform;attn panzers : whichever 1 of you is searching for 'cuts of the meat' -- that's in pre-dragon log, not yet imported. 1928285;1565719498;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/burn-after-reading/ << Trilema -- Burn After Reading 1928286;1565720323;asciilifeform;meanwhile, added 'download daily db snapshot' link to logotron. 1928287;1565720368;*;asciilifeform will put in readme , for next patch, how to set up the cron for these 1928288;1565720399;asciilifeform;currently set to snapshot at 0 hrs. daily. (snapshot itself takes ~8sec at the current mass of the db) 1928289;1565720489;asciilifeform;presently, weighs (compressed) ~23MB. 1928290;1565720538;asciilifeform;i expect will be roughly 3x that when all the back-archives added. 1928291;1565720641;asciilifeform;if folx want to mirror, i'd prefer that also happen daily, otherwise no amt of pipe will suffice 1928292;1565720849;asciilifeform;this ^ is simple means of testing the logger for folx not yet ready to stand up bot. e.g. : zcat dump.gz | psql -U nsabot -d nsalog will eat (assuming you already inited db w/ the provided schema) 1928293;1565720933;BingoBoingo;Las empresas de consumo masivo aumentan sus precios hasta 15% y el Gobierno evalúa qué hacer con "Precios Esenciales" << Headline across the river 1928294;1565720966;BingoBoingo;Also: "Honda dejará de fabricar autos en la Argentina y se focalizará en la producción de motos" 1928295;1565730185;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/4-tor-users-sentenced-in-us/ << Qntra -- 4 Tor Users Sentenced In US 1928296;1565731354;asciilifeform;hey BingoBoingo , couldja run for me [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/p8VEM/?raw=true][these timings] plz 1928297;1565731685;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kJJ54/?raw=true 1928298;1565731729;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo 1928299;1565732564;BingoBoingo;In other news, lower office holding Cristinists are already proposing a return of the Blue Dollar. Nevermind the Argentine Central bank is dumping dollars onto the market now just trying to slow the Peso Argentino's fall. 1928300;1565739430;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/08/13/pizarro-isp-july-2019-report/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP July 2019 Report 1928301;1565739681;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: let's get the 2nd xyz plant specced an' bought this mo 1928302;1565739684;asciilifeform;if at all possible 1928303;1565739709;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: considering we're 100% outta unoccupied holes in which to put folx 1928304;1565739818;asciilifeform;the tyre fire of 'hey we've no logger' is , if not put out, then at low smoulder, so let's get this item moving 1928305;1565739852;*;asciilifeform still ill at ease re logger, pending confirmation that the kit actually stands up somewhere other than in asciilifeform's hands 1928306;1565739922;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927519][see also] 1928307;1565739923;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 17:08:50 asciilifeform: diana_coman: my pov, is that would like to get all [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926977]['magick'] the fuck out of logotronics. 1928308;1565739981;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928291 << i take it 'blue dollar' is/was same thing as sovok's 'convertible ruble' ? 1928309;1565739981;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 18:24:25 BingoBoingo: In other news, lower office holding Cristinists are already proposing a return of the Blue Dollar. Nevermind the Argentine Central bank is dumping dollars onto the market now just trying to slow the Peso Argentino's fall. 1928310;1565740021;asciilifeform;( y'know, the one that was Officially Pegged (tm) at 15 to 1 $ , whereas in reality 100+:1 ) 1928311;1565740740;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: iirc "Blue" was the dollar that tracked actual supply/demand 1928312;1565740769;BingoBoingo; BingoBoingo: let's get the 2nd xyz plant specced an' bought this mo << Aite 1928313;1565740780;asciilifeform;hm i thought that was the only remaining kind after dethronement of whore 1928314;1565740843;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, there was the offical rate proclaimed by Cristina, and then there was the Blue rate everyone actually traded at 1928315;1565740861;asciilifeform;so what means then 'return of blue dollar' ? 1928316;1565740935;BingoBoingo;Well, when Cristina got kicked out of the Pink house and into congress... Argentina started floating their currency 1928317;1565740965;BingoBoingo;Return of the Blue dollar means they peg again and go back to fighting reality on this clearly lost front 1928318;1565740971;asciilifeform;aa! 1928319;1565741161;BingoBoingo;And they'd be doing this with even less dollars in their hands than the last time they tried. 1928320;1565741827;asciilifeform;in other noose, added simple knob to logotron that sends reader to (p)random line of selected chan. 1928321;1565741908;asciilifeform;( not strictly as 'toy for noobs' but will help torture-test , perhaps readers will turn up some case where renders barf ) 1928322;1565741944;asciilifeform;it is found down at the bottom , with the rest 'shit hanging off side of the rifle' perpetrated by asciilifeform 1928323;1565746921;BingoBoingo;"Molinos no entregan harina por falta de precios y se paraliza la industria del pan" << https://archive.is/RbAe7 Latest from across the river 1928324;1565746960;asciilifeform;продразверстка when!111 1928325;1565747184;BingoBoingo;Well, Argentines are talking about the possibility that "Brasil quits Mercosur" instead of the far more likely "Argentina suspended from Mercosur" (Venezuela is the precedent in this case) 1928326;1565747297;asciilifeform;in other minor noose, 'random' button already paid for self, found [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-07-09][page where for some yet-unknown reason line wrap fails] 1928327;1565747451;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928256 << it is inconclusive if the eggogs are a result of the znc2tmsr converter, or the znc logs themselves. Now that I have your logotron pressed onto my cuntoo workstation, I aim to get some irssi #e logs and run them through diana_coman's irssi2tmsr converter, and then snarf that into your logotron to see if I also get barf. 1928328;1565747452;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 12:29:11 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928196 << lobbes does this result in same eggogs when eating your archive as before ? 1928329;1565747453;asciilifeform;^ expert wwwists in the house ? plox to write in 1928330;1565747467;lobbes;No rush to sign anyway. Main reason I even published was mp_en_viaje's solid reasoning >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927639 1928331;1565747468;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 18:49:12 mp_en_viaje: lobbes, and more importantly ... if you have it published today to lookat it in 2029 you can ; and if not you... can not. and so on. 1928332;1565747488;asciilifeform;lobbes: a++ . i'ma try it in coming days ( need #a , #p eaten ) 1928333;1565747587;asciilifeform;lobbes: seems to me that it shouldn't be hard to find whether 'because znc logs themselves' -- look in the raw logs 1928334;1565747701;lobbes;well, I definitely saw some oddities in the raw logs on my end (as in, some of the problem lines had e.g. apostropies rendered as '?' when I viewed them through the 'more' command, for example) 1928335;1565747715;asciilifeform;lobbes: you prolly have a 7bit console 1928336;1565747717;lobbes;may be a better way to check bitrot, but I am pretty novice at this stuff 1928337;1565747718;asciilifeform;so naturally will '?' 1928338;1565747719;lobbes;ahh 1928339;1565747731;asciilifeform;( do other unihieroglyphs show ? e.g. greek ? ) 1928340;1565747760;asciilifeform;and wait, apostrophes , all ? or uniturd-ostrophes strictly ? 1928341;1565747782;asciilifeform;put it through hexdump -C . 1928342;1565747853;lobbes;lemme see if I can get a good example 1928343;1565747862;*;lobbes makes note of hexdump -C 1928344;1565747913;asciilifeform;normal human being apostrophe is, y'know , 0x27 1928345;1565748360;lobbes;of course, now I can't find the example haha. But okay, I'm going to go back and take another look with hexdump in-hand 1928346;1565748374;lobbes;seems to be a saner method 1928347;1565748383;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-12-30][another page that breaks, apparently, wrapping] 1928348;1565748519;asciilifeform;lobbes: it wouldn't astonish me if turns out that some particular combo of uniturds -- breaks py's uniturdism eater 1928349;1565748525;asciilifeform;on either receiving or emitting end 1928350;1565748553;asciilifeform;or, say, inside regexpism 1928351;1565748689;asciilifeform;iirc phf struggled with something not unlike this, when wrote his CL proggy 1928352;1565748721;*;asciilifeform has been digging through logs for what details there may have been put there, but not yet turned up 1928353;1565748732;lobbes;would be a good discovery in any case. at this point I just wanna know why/what it is specifically 1928354;1565748835;asciilifeform;gotta say that mp [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130690][was right] in re front-end being tougher nut to crack than the bot 1928355;1565748863;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1928356;1565748864;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 4d 1h 3m 1928357;1565749059;asciilifeform;i for instance have only the foggiest notion of why cssism does what it does and when/where 1928358;1565749088;asciilifeform;to the extent that the renderer worx, is because lifted from phf's (and massaged empirically) 1928359;1565749106;asciilifeform;but where doesn't ( see the overflowing pgs ) currently nfi why, nor even where to start investigation 1928360;1565749150;asciilifeform;( from ~output~ of phf's , that is, to this day nobody knows how it birthed this output ) 1928361;1565749250;asciilifeform;may well end up having to rewrite the formatter to use . as in phuctor. there, and nowhere else , wrapping seems to work 100% , on all browser from 'lynx' to 1990s 'netscape' 1928362;1565749646;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1928363;1565749871;lobbes;so this is interesting... here's an example line from the live log that barfed on import >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-26.log.html#t20:04:33 1928364;1565749872;lobbesbot;Logged on 2015-08-26 20:04:33: "Or in my case, re-write a cooking book. So ladies and gentlorans, I give you Foxy’s Euloran Cookbook V1.1," 1928365;1565749875;lobbes;here it is in "raw" form on the same www (timestamp [20:04:33]) >> http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-26.log 1928366;1565749882;lobbes;I curled that very .log file just now and ran it through hexdump -C. Here is the result of that line (Hex comes out to "92") >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SSSVY/?raw=true 1928367;1565750038;lobbes;asciilifeform: unrelated, but I noticed logbot's readout above is not showing on http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13 O-o 1928368;1565750055;lobbes;errr lobbesbot's readout. anyways I'll bbl as well 1928369;1565750207;asciilifeform;lobbes: my bot only echoes own loglines. as per traditional mp-given style. 1928370;1565754350;lobbes;asciilifeform: I mis-typed; I meant to say that *my own bot echoed* and it does not show in the log. (6 lines up from this line; from lobbesbot) 1928371;1565754365;lobbes;anyways. bbl for real; sleep 1928372;1565754465;lobbes;shows on vulpes' logger, for example: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2019-8-14#478738 1928373;1565755846;asciilifeform;lobbes: ahaha, guesswhat, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Vkk23/?raw=true 1928374;1565755865;asciilifeform;i.e. we have a http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928340 1928375;1565755865;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 22:50:21 asciilifeform: lobbes: it wouldn't astonish me if turns out that some particular combo of uniturds -- breaks py's uniturdism eater 1928376;1565755912;asciilifeform;so, evidently py's uniturd eater is broken, and needs pre-massage if it is to become properly omnivorous 1928377;1565755966;asciilifeform;observe, incidentally, that this did not drop the bot. 1928378;1565755971;asciilifeform;still gotta be worked around somehow. 1928379;1565755992;asciilifeform;bot oughta log anyffin whatsoever that could possibly go in the wire. 1928380;1565756218;asciilifeform;if i don't find a mechanical method of somehow 'dwim'ing out the intended orcograms, i'ma have the bot replace'em with hammer-an'-sickle . unless someone has better idea. 1928381;1565756247;asciilifeform;( is there a standard 'this is a dud orcogram' glyph ?? ) 1928382;1565756347;asciilifeform;phf's bot, incidentally, [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-14#1928364][ate]. now would be a notbad time for the fella to come the hell out of his coma and say how. 1928383;1565756347;a111;Logged on 2019-08-14 02:31 lobbesbot: Logged on 2015-08-26 20:04:33: "Or in my case, re-write a cooking book. So ladies and gentlorans, I give you Foxy’s Euloran Cookbook V1.1," 1928384;1565756418;asciilifeform;(i suspect answer lies deep in the CL libs that he used tho, and not necessarily in head.) 1928385;1565756546;asciilifeform;quite arguably any proggy that uses heathen libs -- and pointedly includes my logger -- is pressed sawdust, worx until you hit whatever speshulcase the speshulchildren didn't think 'is possible' 1928386;1565756643;asciilifeform;hey ben_vulpes, wanna come out of coma and say how you ate arbitrary unibarf ? 1928387;1565757038;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1928388;1565758780;BingoBoingo;From the lulz mines http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QBFoN/?raw=true 1928389;1565759918;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, looks like windowscode apostrophe, not unicode per se. 1928390;1565759948;mp_en_viaje;this was discussed numerously, asdf has auto-magics to distinguish the various encodings. 1928391;1565759978;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, right, they're going to "alt-pay", which is a speshul argentina thing, and it totally isn't not-pay, it's pay. because they say, and if they say then fucking totally. 1928392;1565760033;mp_en_viaje;fucktard. who THE FUCK is gonna give them rice for 20 years ? what "50% de nuestro sueldo" ? what the fuck nuestro, no hay nada que es argentino. 100% of everythng, and now. 1928393;1565760035;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: utf16?! 1928394;1565760042;mp_en_viaje;just fucking kill anything on the ground in argentina now and start over. 1928395;1565760118;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, $ echo "’"| xxd >0000000: e280 990a 1928396;1565760222;mp_en_viaje;aka ’ 1928397;1565760282;mp_en_viaje;The characters 128-159 are not used in ISO 8859-1 and Unicode, the character sets of HTML. MS-Windows uses a superset of ANSI/ISO 8859-1, known to experts as "Code Page 1252 (CP1252)", a Microsoft-specific character set with additional characters in the 128-159 range (also known as the "C1" range). 1928398;1565760282;mp_en_viaje;All the CP1252 characters are also available in Unicode. For example the CP1252 character 146 that you mentioned (RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK) has the Unicode number 8217, therefore you should use this number in order to conform to the HTML standard. Modern HTML browsers like Netscape 4.0 understand Unicode, and will automatically convert the Unicode character ’ back into the character 146 on MS-Windows machines, and into the appropriate ch 1928399;1565760282;mp_en_viaje;aracter on other systems. 1928400;1565760284;mp_en_viaje;The official CP1252<->Unicode conversion table is printed in the Unicode 2.0 standard for instance, and is available on in the file ucs-map-cp1252. [See also the file ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/MICSFT/WINDOWS/CP1252.TXT at the official Unicode site.] 1928401;1565760290;mp_en_viaje;MS-Windows HTML-authoring software definitely should implement the conversion table below! Please forward this mail to the developers of your HTML authoring tool if this is currently done wrong. 1928402;1565760336;*;asciilifeform will walk lobbes 's uniturds hexdump tomorrow, after sleep, its 0130 here 1928403;1565760618;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928274 << i expect this is not even wrong ; apache exists to spit out filesystem to port 80 ; was then extended to spit out cgi and eventually mod php, but same principle. 1928404;1565760618;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 13:55:23 asciilifeform: i'm beginning to suspect that nginx, apache, etc. are intrinsically dead weight, when sat in front of a programmatic html shitter 1928405;1565760673;mp_en_viaje;if you're not spitting out the filesystem, and don't need apache to run the infrastructure of whatever scripting language for you (ie, use python's native interpreter, or cl, bash w/e, rather than php) then you don't, strictly speaking, need it. 1928406;1565760730;mp_en_viaje;otoh, apache is to my knowledge the only case of linux userland with useful threading implemented, debugged, and working. may be cheaper to piggyback on that subsystem than implement own threads, esp on the batshit insane anti-useful toybox that is linux. 1928407;1565760780;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: ostensibly was supposed to impedance-match, buffer, filter ddosistic shenanigans, etc. but turns out -- double-edged 1928408;1565760800;mp_en_viaje;in general, fwis, it's ~always much better to do the "use apache for threading and fs-as-cache" model than anything else. but then again i'm not the hacker, don't let me keep you from your destiny. 1928409;1565760821;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, this "filter ddos" thing is pipe dream. either you got outside box to do it, or you're nto doing. 1928410;1565760855;mp_en_viaje;"box is not doing, routerallah is doing", how shall i put this. there's no way to prevent a stampede as the guy being stampeded, it should be self-obvious 1928411;1565760892;asciilifeform;the front-ends promise much, but deliver, afaik, mainly that extra sec of stall.. 1928412;1565760934;asciilifeform;( and gigatonne of config liquishit to eat ) 1928413;1565760942;mp_en_viaje;nfi what you mean by "impedance mathc" either, it's an unusefully high level concept for this convo. if fs-is-my-cache and apache-workers items as they exist match your impedance, then yes it does. if they do not, then no it does not. 1928414;1565760963;mp_en_viaje;but yes, this is the problem -- until and unless one ends up understanding how apache config works, one will not like it. 1928415;1565761045;mp_en_viaje;(contrary to what naive nugget might be imagining, implementing threading on linux is not trivial ; and not even necessarily replicable by now.) 1928416;1565761071;asciilifeform;depends what mean 'implement threading' 1928417;1565761083;asciilifeform;e.g. 'M' implements. in asm. 1928418;1565761096;mp_en_viaje;in this context, a working equivalent to apache's workers. 1928419;1565761105;asciilifeform;has. 1928420;1565761113;mp_en_viaje;well so then use that, what. 1928421;1565761120;asciilifeform;the sim-periphs all get thrd etc 1928422;1565761145;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: may well be doomed to write www serv before this is over. 1928423;1565761165;mp_en_viaje;it's roughly your personal implementation of "getting a sepsis" 1928424;1565761174;mp_en_viaje;in your case it'd be of the brain. wtf is wrong with you! 1928425;1565761288;asciilifeform;proggy -- is published. if no one sheds light on e.g. how to banish the spurious delay, will have to approach the q with whatever method i know of ( or live with it ) 1928426;1565761313;asciilifeform;ditto unitardations etc 1928427;1565761357;mp_en_viaje;you're approximately the equivalent of that one guy nobody heard of from the manhattan project who decided early on to re-design cars because his window crane nubbin kept falling off. "dude, they already have cars" "yes but they're not right" "we're doing something ELSE here!" "i can't get there, my car's window's nubbin keeps falling off" 1928428;1565761431;asciilifeform;i don't presently know why mp_en_viaje makes special pleading for apache et al to exempt'em from 'software is univerally shite' 1928429;1565761478;mp_en_viaje;symbolics never in ~its entire life~... actually fucking strike that. all of mit cs lab, ALL OF IT, from csail onwards, never had a tenth of the fucking engineering man-hours that went into turning a patchy server into apache. 1928430;1565761520;mp_en_viaje;you're proposing to re-do all that to shave a second offa some webapp you misconfigured somewhere ? gimme a break, put 1/1000000 that much time into talking to internet randos about pizarro, get 1000000x the benefits. 1928431;1565761566;asciilifeform;i suspect at this pt apache absorbed moar hrs than pyramid of cheops. and will welcome proof of 'yer hands grow out of arse, turn this-here knob and the 6s will become 0.2'. 1928432;1565761585;mp_en_viaje;we're seriously talking some heavy duty 1e12 orders of dampening magnitude here, how to take a trillion and make a tenth of a cent 1928433;1565761607;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, it's right there, comparable with fucking space race and yes, pyramid. 1928434;1565761636;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: if yer happy to live with 'teletype' i'ma entirely happily leave it entirely alone 1928435;1565761658;mp_en_viaje;where the fuck is the dozen people six months original discussion anyway 1928436;1565761713;asciilifeform;( i'd rather paint grass green, if have any say, than to continue fiddling the knobs ) 1928437;1565761723;mp_en_viaje;so then do something else. 1928438;1565761785;asciilifeform;lobbes's hieroglyphs barf oughta be handled. after that would like to leave the logger to other folx to patch, at least for nao. 1928439;1565761795;*;mp_en_viaje spent the night up until ~now drinking with "psycho dolls", polish item, these chicks that do fireworks and stuff. girls picked them up right off street days ago. 1928440;1565761823;mp_en_viaje;you have a much better chance of spending your night drinking with washington equivalent, local psycho dolls, through walking the street of wash dc randomly talking to people, 1928441;1565761845;mp_en_viaje;than of producing "improved apache" through hacking on linuxbox 1928442;1565761885;mp_en_viaje;and this even bearing in mind no such thing locally exists in the first place. 1928443;1565761967;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i have no desire for 'improved apache', any more than for 'improved ms vb' 1928444;1565762083;mp_en_viaje;https://i.ibb.co/qrLBqY1/29749622-1589941137741526-5385020322950181210-o.jpg << item 1928445;1565762129;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, ok so then, what's the problem with the obvious course : test some static html files, see if it has same problem, implement cache as discussed yest when time permits and be done with it. 1928446;1565762148;asciilifeform;tested, found same. 1928447;1565762152;mp_en_viaje;no ?! 1928448;1565762166;mp_en_viaje;you never mentioned this ? did i miss some log parts ? 1928449;1565762183;asciilifeform;cache will do 0, the actual page gen in 'heavy' sample on py end takes 0.070s ! 1928450;1565762190;asciilifeform;rest -- transmission. 1928451;1565762206;mp_en_viaje;did you actually look at some plain .html files being loaded ? 1928452;1565762242;asciilifeform;aha. and bins. try the db dump, same 'burst' pattern 1928453;1565762272;mp_en_viaje;and then you still http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928268 ?! 1928454;1565762273;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 13:33:53 asciilifeform: so i still suspect it aint the pipe ( diana_coman lives at piz ) 1928455;1565762432;asciilifeform;so far uncertain whether pipe or nginx is culprit. 1928456;1565762492;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928285 << in other keks, had to look up wtf this "consumo masivo" is supposed to be. ran into [https://www.iebschool.com/blog/productos-de-consumo-masivo-comercio-ventas/][typically argentine socialist-fuckarded nonsense] before realising it's how these "Los productos de consumo masivo se definen como productos de alta demanda. Son aquellos productos requeridos por todos los estratos de la socied 1928457;1565762492;mp_en_viaje;ad, la cual cosa motiva a la competencia entre las empresas de este sector por la captación de clientela, intentando diferenciarse ofreciendo alternativas, precios o agregados." rank imbeciles are simply denoting FAST MOVING Consumer Goods. 1928458;1565762492;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 15:10:34 BingoBoingo: Las empresas de consumo masivo aumentan sus precios hasta 15% y el Gobierno evalúa qué hacer con "Precios Esenciales" << Headline across the river 1928459;1565762493;asciilifeform;pipe -- routinely gives sustained mb+/s, to my chair. but never before looked into what happens in 1st sec. 1928460;1565762528;mp_en_viaje;no fucking inkiling of an idea in their ferrous craniums that the ~moving~ is the point, nfi what overheads are, yakyakywak about "nos todos" and "social class" and whatever nonsense. 1928461;1565762545;mp_en_viaje;god lov'em, cuz i sure as fuck don't. 1928462;1565762567;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yes but QoS and all that, port 80 is differently treated by routers, you're aware of this 1928463;1565762599;asciilifeform;aha! hence my 'i have nfi what is going on' 1928464;1565762666;mp_en_viaje;so do you have nginx configured as reverse proxy or why does it keep getting mentioned ? 1928465;1565762674;asciilifeform;reverse proxy 1928466;1565762679;asciilifeform;with no frills 1928467;1565762688;mp_en_viaje;so turn off, see what that does ? 1928468;1565762724;mp_en_viaje;ill say ftr what while ~decade ago this was actually standard deployment, i've not been bothered to have it for a long time now 1928469;1565762732;asciilifeform;and reach the py proggy's port how ? 1928470;1565762743;mp_en_viaje;wait, you got no apache running ? 1928471;1565762755;asciilifeform;nope. straight nginx 1928472;1565762772;mp_en_viaje;could just do port forwarding i guess. 1928473;1565762780;mp_en_viaje;then again nginx should be doing that. 1928474;1565762832;asciilifeform;it is. sole purpose of its life on the box, in fact , to send phuctor subdomain to 1 port, snsashop to other, now log -- to yet 3rd 1928475;1565762842;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, you know, you can prolly get flask bind to 80 ? 1928476;1565762857;mp_en_viaje;or you using multiple flasks for each of these 1928477;1565762859;asciilifeform;only if run as root, which ugh 1928478;1565762865;asciilifeform;and yes multiple 1928479;1565762872;asciilifeform;as separate users 1928480;1565762906;mp_en_viaje;so you have like 3 flask servers going ? 1928481;1565762937;asciilifeform;well 2 atm, snsa shop currently points to static 'sold out' pg. 1928482;1565762976;mp_en_viaje;fucking circus ropeshow you got going there... 1928483;1565763022;asciilifeform;i have 1 piz box. wouldja rathet have no logger ? or 'circus' 1928484;1565763066;mp_en_viaje;also stating ftr : if /me had designed this, it'd have been one single apache server, handling directories into which various cron-run pythons vomited whatever. not even port binding, comms through fs. 1928485;1565763080;mp_en_viaje;dispose with flask dependency and all that. 1928486;1565763099;asciilifeform;search with what? grep ? 1928487;1565763112;mp_en_viaje;you currently use postgres no ? 1928488;1565763117;asciilifeform;aha 1928489;1565763137;mp_en_viaje;search via apache-postgres 1928490;1565763144;asciilifeform;wtf is that 1928491;1565763192;mp_en_viaje;you know, apache has this built-in scripting language we won't name to run db queries. 1928492;1565763220;asciilifeform;ok i'ma come back to this thrd when erryone sober. 1928493;1565763233;mp_en_viaje;hey, you're the one juggling flasks. 1928494;1565763267;asciilifeform;goodnight(morning?) mp_en_viaje 1928495;1565763278;mp_en_viaje;it's like 8am yeah. 1928496;1565763336;mp_en_viaje;i like how it's "oh, mp is drunk". wth did i do! 1928497;1565763402;mp_en_viaje;" 1928498;1565763402;mp_en_viaje;Flask is a lightweight WSGI web application framework. It is designed to make getting started quick and easy, with the ability to scale up to complex applications. It began as a simple wrapper around Werkzeug and Jinja and has become one of the most popular Python web application frameworks." << really makes me want to be sober, reading that thing. 1928499;1565763431;mp_en_viaje;who wouldn;t want simple wrappers around werkjij and zeugya. 1928500;1565763449;mp_en_viaje;or wait, i got them wrong didn't i. kunstjig and zugkammer ? 1928501;1565763572;asciilifeform;kunstkammer. 1928502;1565763576;mp_en_viaje;look at that, "[https://palletsprojects.com/p/werkzeug/][the pellets project]" (apt name if i've ever seen one) has documentation of this geficktzug or w/e it was. 1928503;1565763596;*;asciilifeform will bbl, falling down. 1928504;1565763604;mp_en_viaje;nn. 1928505;1565763912;mp_en_viaje;since i exhausted him, i will now bark into the ethers (until someone wakes up), in the form of the following consumer computing likbez that we can all discuss once everyone else is sober -- im having second thoughts as to whether i ever want to be sober again. 1928506;1565763976;mp_en_viaje;so, the only reason linux exists, let me restate that actually : THE ONLY FUCKING REASON LINUX EXISTS is the sheer coincidence that people got the lamp stack (read : linux, apache, mysql, php) going just in time for the september that never ended fallout. 1928507;1565764243;mp_en_viaje;without this, all of linux (and all of the SMALLER foss, which piggy-backs on it, and always has, and always would have and forever would have had ; and certainly all of the even smaller and insignificant if more [http://trilema.com/2019/burn-after-reading/][organisedly-stupid] GNU) would have forever stayed the exact equivalent of an obscure gentoo repackaging three kids maintain for purely self-actualisation & escapist reasons. [http://trilema. 1928508;1565764243;mp_en_viaje;com/2014/the-perfect-pitch/][point in case example]. 1928509;1565764328;mp_en_viaje;i am aware various sysadmin-y folks flatter themselves that "something unixlike'd have existed anyway for our terminal&cmdline needs". this is utterly false, they'd have been clucking at GUI interfaces exactly like the medical profession / barristas everywhere, and been thankful when .jar finally rolled around. 1928510;1565764504;mp_en_viaje;the 1990s "tech support" kiddo (perhaps best typified by [http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good][thorne], who is a faggoty "designer" ; though i'm aware everyone'd rather it be "BOFH" or whatever similar self-wank) running grep over everyone-workking-at-the-videostore's hoemdirs never had any say or pulled any weight. toxicfact or haetfact or whatever, fact stays fact. 1928511;1565764613;mp_en_viaje;now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-11-27#1875595][they fucked it all up]. 1928512;1565764614;snsabot;Logged on 2018-11-27 16:37:59 mircea_popescu: gnu managed to drive directx into the ground, on the strength of naive if well meaning contributors, and then managed to give the advantage back to windows, and snatch defeat from the very jaws of victory, on the strength of imbecile management. 1928513;1565764777;mp_en_viaje;so, not to put too fine a point on it : i really don't give so much of a shit what peculiar buttdildos you use in your own special universe to make yourself feel "different from the rest", "poetic", "not understood" and whatever other such highschooler personal investments. the fact of the matter is, linux exists for and through and by and because apache, mysql, and the glue gluing these together : php. that's what it is, that's what it's for, th 1928514;1565764778;mp_en_viaje;at's the doctrine and the standard solution and the "werkzeug"/kunstkammer of it. 1928515;1565764965;mp_en_viaje;when you get a job with microsoft, you ~also~ buy the 90yo "representative" from iowa being "[http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-antipsychotics-overprescribed-to-kids-adnotated/][senior]" just as you buy the add treatment for your kids and the wood frame house in vinyl siding and "black culture" and everything else. 1928516;1565764988;mp_en_viaje;i don't give a shit what you tell the orcs back home, or your crying inner 6yo at night or anything else -- buy the ticket, take the ride. 1928517;1565765026;mp_en_viaje;yes, there's alternatives. of course there are. you don't have to coca cola, there's also pepsi. you like postgres more than mysql, well the fuck done, use that then. it'll be still used as an M in LAMP. because that's what the damned thing is, "flexibility" my ass. 1928518;1565765091;mp_en_viaje;the fucking design of ~everything~ linux is always the same, and always this. divergence from this is neither clever nor ever functional, it'll always reduce to "i'm running LPyFFF because I don't understand why F has to come before the alt-P". 1928519;1565765138;mp_en_viaje;yes, you can use "flask" instead of apache. it's shitty, they know is shitty, the reason they "dont recommend" you put it naked on #80 is precisely that they know it's shit. 1928520;1565765231;mp_en_viaje;linux-server-database-scriptglue. that's what it's gonna be. call them what you will, but try and remember : buying "alternatives" doesn't make you alternative. i buy rope from the rope store and server from the apache store because i don't wanna pay 5x for shittier rope bought at the "special bdsm store". it dun do nothing for me. 1928521;1565765582;mp_en_viaje;python/perl/whatever are not "better php". they might be more comfortable php, which is exactly like "i feel weird buying condoms otc, i really need a brown paper bag". fine, whatever works for you. don't tell me though stories about "the really cool store with the really better condoms". they're not better just because the clerk awkwardness-matches you and the SAME EXACT fmcg offering is proffered in an extra brown paper wrapper. 1928522;1565765886;mp_en_viaje;and this nonsense then drives and is driven by the typically ustardian mode of failure, "we'll be rich by doing each other's laundry" "service economy" answer to the exact problem of argentina discussed above is then manifested in the "we'll just wrap everything in wrapping wrappy wrapers" "tech"/"innovation"/"entrepreneurial" nonsense. 1928523;1565766018;mp_en_viaje;yes, guido von fucktard is going to "invent" a "[http://trilema.com/2016/there-has-not-yet-been-seen-a-simple-thing-even-if-were-drowning-in-simple-people/][language to make programming easy for everyone]", hurr. it's exactly as needed as a tin-foil-covered-kitchen-knife makes a great birthday present. yes, a bright 5yo / retarded 12yo might give you that for your birthday ; you may even briefly interact with it. it's still not a fucking thing -- 1928524;1565766018;mp_en_viaje; it's your knife, covered in some waste of your tin foil. 1928525;1565766071;mp_en_viaje;then they're going to implement apache in php, because totally, this ~can~ be done. then they're going to have a lightweight apache to run their php and you're welcome to a) attempt to start three "servers" of this nonsense and b) wonder about the impedance mismatches. 1928526;1565766148;mp_en_viaje;yet ~the thing that runs python~ is already apache. definitionally. it's a broken half-way implementation of apache, but this doesn't make it either lighter or better or faster or anything. doing half the job ain't being "agile", it's being costly in a hidden manner : someone somewhere downstream will have to implement what you left out at the proper level, and it'll be more expensive then. 1928527;1565766347;mp_en_viaje;i get it, the concept grates, "but mp, i could design so much better systems" no you couldn't. the linux thing was successful ~coincidentally~. a space of possibilities was explored, and this is what STUCK. you can't design a better pile of nonsense for the exact reason you can't design a better elephant trunk : it wasn't fucking designed! it's what stuck! 1928528;1565766564;mp_en_viaje;yes, i'm aware, if you made the giraffe it wouldn't have the laryngeal branch of the vagus go a mile around the heart. whopee for you, but do you know what ? galen was fucking aware this is happening in people too! it's called ~recurrent~ because it goes away and comes back, this is the case in all fucking mammals, equally "for no reason". 1928529;1565766666;mp_en_viaje;it's not there because it was designed ; it's there because it was selected, which is a different thing. selection [http://trilema.com/2015/quantum-mechanics-today-a-machine-to-turn-penis-projectile-vibration-into-eyelash-flutter/][produces things that work], definitionally, that's what it is. not well or correctly or properly but AT ALL. 1928530;1565766797;mp_en_viaje;so, to conclude the whole discussion : designing-improvements-on-selected-systems might be the lulziest impedance mismatch of them all. the prime directive of the engineer is to first become aware of the selected portions of his environment, and then take care around them. yes, you can design things -- but only in well understood contexts. part of that understanding, ~central~ part of that understanding is awareness of the selected portions, what 1928531;1565766797;mp_en_viaje; drove the selection, how it drove it, etcetera. 1928532;1565768168;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in historical lulz nobody's expectedto understand, https://www.datamation.com/ 1928533;1565768430;mp_en_viaje;ant to continue : https://internet.com/ ; much like [http://trilema.com/2015/okcupidcom-the-dating-site/][IAC], QuinnStreet is a "S&P 600 Component", you know, with supposed revenue out of those shit "properties" and assorted other self-imagined bullshit. [http://trilema.com/2011/succese-ilustrate-in-publicitate/?b=Groupon%20was&e=owner#select][believe]. 1928534;1565768545;mp_en_viaje;http://quinstreet.com/ aka http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ 1928535;1565768673;mp_en_viaje;https://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/quinstreet-reports-fourth-quarter-and-fiscal-year-2019-financial-results-20190808-01215 << also fucking beautiful. 1928536;1565780352;phf;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928373 << not sure if answered already, but has been discussed in logs, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546407 1928537;1565780352;a111;Logged on 2016-09-21 14:44 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546322 << this behavior has nothing to do with znc (unless you explicitly configured znc to recode your messages), it has to do with the fact that irc is encoding agnostic. used to be you had koi8-r only channels, or latin-1 only channels etc. now utf-8 is the "standard" but from back in those days you have a peculiar hack surviging in a lot of clients. everyone's expected to be able to read latin-1, 1928538;1565780352;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 01:00:50 asciilifeform: phf's bot, incidentally, [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-14#1928364][ate]. now would be a notbad time for the fella to come the hell out of his coma and say how. 1928539;1565780417;phf;i even explain how to do it in python http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546421 1928540;1565780417;a111;Logged on 2016-09-21 14:49 phf: but correct way of handling this in python, is to read() line by line, which returns whatever, ascii, then parse the [date] bits as ascii, then take the rest of line and try: msg.decode('utf-8') except: msg.decode('latin-1') 1928541;1565781995;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in old genesises, http://bofh.bjash.com/bofh/genesis1.html 1928542;1565788700;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-bipolar-rates-are-increasing-as-long-as-youre-willing-to-call-everything-bipolar-and-defy-gods-will-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Bipolar Rates Are Increasing As Long As You're Willing To Call Everything Bipolar And Defy God's Will. Adnotated. 1928543;1565790627;asciilifeform;ty phf , i'ma try said algo 1928544;1565790781;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i'm not about to defend individual pieces of the rusting junkyard from which built e.g. logger; 1928545;1565790808;mp_en_viaje;and i'm not saying you did anything wrong 1928546;1565790852;asciilifeform;and from certain pov (e.g. scrap dealer's, who only melts it down) all the rusty carcasses in junkyard are ~exactlysame. but from pov of the folx who go in when mp_en_viaje asks 'build a tank by mid august' -- not quite same. 1928547;1565790912;mp_en_viaje;certainly. 1928548;1565790914;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928515 << this in particular is suspiciously similar to the traditional 'Free Market(tm)(r) gave us microshit, so eat up' of 1990s 1928549;1565790914;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:47:31 mp_en_viaje: i get it, the concept grates, "but mp, i could design so much better systems" no you couldn't. the linux thing was successful ~coincidentally~. a space of possibilities was explored, and this is what STUCK. you can't design a better pile of nonsense for the exact reason you can't design a better elephant trunk : it wasn't fucking designed! it's what stuck! 1928550;1565790945;mp_en_viaje;so the idea is, somehow a better use for linux will be found ? 1928551;1565790955;asciilifeform;mno. lemme lay it out : 1928552;1565791076;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928498][this] in particular is broadly true , and asciilifeform even has [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=388][old piece re subj]. and is why http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928497 -- observe -- ended up happening anyway, the current 'linux admins' are, for most part, in fact clucking at gui knobs. 1928553;1565791077;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:16:47 mp_en_viaje: the 1990s "tech support" kiddo (perhaps best typified by [http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good][thorne], who is a faggoty "designer" ; though i'm aware everyone'd rather it be "BOFH" or whatever similar self-wank) running grep over everyone-workking-at-the-videostore's hoemdirs never had any say or pulled any weight. toxicfact or haetfact or wha 1928554;1565791077;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:13:51 mp_en_viaje: i am aware various sysadmin-y folks flatter themselves that "something unixlike'd have existed anyway for our terminal&cmdline needs". this is utterly false, they'd have been clucking at GUI interfaces exactly like the medical profession / barristas everywhere, and been thankful when .jar finally rolled around. 1928555;1565791162;mp_en_viaje;right. 1928556;1565791172;asciilifeform;the capitalist of 1900 and the bureaucrat of 2000 have entirely common interest in deskilling ( skilled labour is poison , from pov of either ) and the underlying parts , whether computer or lathe or whatever, dun particularly matter, same pressure 1928557;1565791327;asciilifeform;both, however, occasionally forced to make 'unprincipled exception', cuz the set of what can be done by deskilled monkey with 'cluck' tool is never 100% . 1928558;1565791402;mp_en_viaje;this is also true, as a broad trend. it is unfortunate but true that the inept king prefers crossbowmen over archers, because archers take lifetime to train and dedication from puberty to craft, whereas crossbow can be operated by... outsourced labour. it takes a certain sort of short-sightedness to not notice the implicit band-of-brothers vs [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-07-12#1833989][your own nobles cutting down your own mercs] 1928559;1565791402;mp_en_viaje;"oh, they're all dogs". 1928560;1565791403;snsabot;Logged on 2018-07-12 14:00:03 mircea_popescu: but do you recall the case of the misfortunate doria charge ? 1928561;1565791417;mp_en_viaje;then again, when the king's qualified to king age 12... shortsightedness comes with the crown. 1928562;1565791436;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928501][this] portrait isn't wrong, but came out of particular instance of such problem in 1990s, when wwwism came into fashion. recall microshit's purchase of 'hotmail' ? 1928563;1565791436;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:21:21 mp_en_viaje: so, not to put too fine a point on it : i really don't give so much of a shit what peculiar buttdildos you use in your own special universe to make yourself feel "different from the rest", "poetic", "not understood" and whatever other such highschooler personal investments. the fact of the matter is, linux exists for and through and by and because apache, mysql, and the glue gluing these together : php. that's wha 1928564;1565791444;mp_en_viaje;note that it does not start 1900. present and attested 1346 1928565;1565791465;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, what about the hotmail purchase ? 1928566;1565791478;asciilifeform;when 'let's run it on microshit' and had to backpedal 1928567;1565791549;mp_en_viaje;a yes 1928568;1565791559;asciilifeform;the 'cluck' tech was not up to the level, just yet, of 'deskill AND still worx-well-enuff-for-the-chumps-to-eat' 1928569;1565791569;asciilifeform;so they had to make grudging exception. 1928570;1565791580;asciilifeform;all such exceptions, strictly temporary. 1928571;1565791591;mp_en_viaje;you should see the atrocity that is facebook, today's successor. works actually worse than hotmail of the hopeful microsoft days 1928572;1565791599;asciilifeform;unfortunately have seen. 1928573;1565791635;mp_en_viaje;i'm hanging out with chicks yest, "oh, websites are dead" "what do you do if facebook decides one day fire refereences forbidden on its platform ?" "uhhh 1928574;1565791671;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's model is, linux grew briefly in '90s exactly like tree seedling briefly grows through pavement crack. but in the end the tar pot and the roller do come, crack is sealed. 1928575;1565791688;mp_en_viaje;i don't even disagree with the broad model. 1928576;1565791752;asciilifeform;but to take this angle further -- it could have easily grown ( just as briefly, or longer, no one can know ) through ~different~ crack. if were not for www fad, could easily know linux today as 'that thing weird greybeards use for cnc-ing submarine propellers' 1928577;1565791837;asciilifeform;asciilifeform has somewhat atypical ( and to mp_en_viaje , grating ) pov re linux because was never wwwist (until voluntarily fell on this grenade for tmsr work) , instead earned bread for yrs on such things as ~non networked~ linux boxen where crunched numbers, drove eldritch machinery, etc 1928578;1565791854;asciilifeform;diff crack, in different place, in pavement , than early www . 1928579;1565791872;mp_en_viaje;but it didn't! is the important point. yes giraffe could have had trunk and elephant wings. COULD HAVE. DID NOT. major diff. 1928580;1565791906;mp_en_viaje;as mentioned, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928499 1928581;1565791906;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:18:36 mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-11-27#1875595][they fucked it all up]. 1928582;1565791916;asciilifeform;i see the wwwism fad as tumour mass, rather than giraffe. yes from 'who's got the most cells, haha' tumour in yer chest the size of basketball is a 'success' . 1928583;1565791928;mp_en_viaje;the fact that they, literally, snatched defeat from jaws of victory, makes one suspect maybe these coulds weaker than desired. 1928584;1565792025;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, incientally re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928496 : ny chance your logger can be persuaded to un-fuck broken [][] lines ? 1928585;1565792025;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:12:26 mp_en_viaje: com/2014/the-perfect-pitch/][point in case example]. 1928586;1565792050;mp_en_viaje;though in fairness i should probably just fix my fucking client. 1928587;1565792051;asciilifeform;'lamp' and the influx of deskilled labour connected with its rise , is imho exactly basketball tumour, and succinctly summarized by [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-02-18#1615386][naggum] 1928588;1565792051;snsabot;Logged on 2017-02-18 17:29:22 asciilifeform: '... what was once dedication is replaced by greed and sometimes sheer need as the motivation to enter the field.' 1928589;1565792071;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: unfuck split [ ] ? this is good idea imho 1928590;1565792092;mp_en_viaje;yeah, but probably correct approach is to have client not split such a line wrongly. 1928591;1565792093;asciilifeform;q is how many are missing chunks tho, as well as cut . 1928592;1565792118;mp_en_viaje;the example doesn't, but i recall seeing some other client also take out chars yes. 1928593;1565792140;asciilifeform;so result could easily be massive pile of clickable but abortus links 1928594;1565792144;asciilifeform;but imho worth a try 1928595;1565792345;asciilifeform;to pile on the upstack thrd tho : lamp, as i see it, was linux's great ~calamity~. w/out rise of www, linux (or, moar likely, the bsd's) would have stayed small, obscure ( like many of the other systems asciilifeform worked with , that actually work and mp_en_viaje never heard of, or heard of strictly in 'facebookized' variants ) but... working. i.e. remained a green shoot in the pavement, for however long . 1928596;1565792387;mp_en_viaje;either that or he'd have gotten bored of it about the same time as he did irl, and dropped in the drawer. 1928597;1565792415;asciilifeform;well linux in particular, as perpetrated by the finn, would almost certainly have stopped at the 'bored' 1928598;1565792427;mp_en_viaje;this is the problem with systems that don't scale : yes, if your airplane can't take off, not attempting to take of is "wise". 1928599;1565792439;mp_en_viaje;but an item that is premised on not attempting to take off is not airplane/ 1928600;1565792445;asciilifeform;but reactor would quietly run vms ( as incidentally they still do ) on vax. 1928601;1565792460;mp_en_viaje;modern reactors run jars. 1928602;1565792465;asciilifeform;mno. 1928603;1565792469;mp_en_viaje;i kid you not. ask the haliburtons 1928604;1565792518;asciilifeform;what jars, ~all extant plants run on 1970s tech, never even swapped. there are folx making replacement parts for the pdp8. 1928605;1565792533;mp_en_viaje;(private joke, re java license agreement, Mocky possibly appreciates) 1928606;1565792567;asciilifeform;this is the interesting bit, there are industries where 'tree in the pavement' was never even approached, much less asphalted over, by ~either~ unix or microshit . 1928607;1565792572;asciilifeform;ever hear of e.g. 'mumps' ? 1928608;1565792649;asciilifeform;1970s-era string-munging lang ~to this day~ used for medical db. runs on e.g. old ibm gear. look at it some time, will have nightmare. ( can 'redefine number 4' and so forth, and not only ~can~ but sometimes ~must~ ) but there it is , still in use. 1928609;1565792658;mp_en_viaje;nothing comes to mind 1928610;1565792678;asciilifeform;1966 (!) design. 1928611;1565792685;mp_en_viaje;oh, M! 1928612;1565792776;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/wZLRt][somewhat retarded heathen 'threat or menace' piece re subj, for anyone interested.] difficult actually to find detailed material on the net re this item, i orig. encountered it by chance, deep in the salt mines, in person. 1928613;1565792833;asciilifeform;this is actually typical of the 'trees in pavement', many/most have minimal net exposure. survival adaptation. 1928614;1565792857;mp_en_viaje;well, no/minimal net exposure also became very easy to achieve these days. 1928615;1565792874;asciilifeform;consider gnat. why is it that its corpse had usable organs in it when we dug up. 1928616;1565792874;mp_en_viaje;http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-other-dead-things/ 1928617;1565792967;asciilifeform;it's universally the items that the wwwtards, microshit fruiting bodies, etc left for dead, where one still finds scrap of sanity and sumthing like documented, ~working~ moving parts. 1928618;1565793007;mp_en_viaje;this vice thin gis fucked in the head 1928619;1565793023;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: if i find a piece by actual human being on subj, will post. 1928620;1565793074;asciilifeform;( and , lol, then 'mumps' will be overrun and die in 3-5 yrs and the old men will go, some to 'cluck' at ms sql , others to bottle ) 1928621;1565793088;mp_en_viaje;i dunno about wwwtards! redditards i can see, but in the period between 93 and say digg days as the end, up to about 2010, having a website was rather a promise of sanity. 1928622;1565793119;asciilifeform;rright, back when this required proficiency with the seed-in-pavement-of-the-day 1928623;1565793146;asciilifeform;then -- the flood of 'driven not even by greed, but sheer ~need~' described by naggum. 1928624;1565793228;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje had a piece ( where is it, grr ) where '1) actual people make a thing 2) herd finds it 3) herd 'also wants' 4) herd 'regulates', 'manages' 5) actual-people pack it ...' etc 1928625;1565793394;asciilifeform;asciilifeform was drawn into bitcoin (specifically as portrayed by mp_en_viaje ; was never in the tardstalk forum , and [in fact quite cold to the subj][http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939] until encountered mp_en_viaje ) specifically because appeared, to asciilifeform , to be the 1st known instance of a successful defense against the 1-5 rot progression . 1928626;1565793458;asciilifeform;err, [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939][quite cold to the subj] 1928627;1565793483;*;asciilifeform tempted to make these bidirectional, it's entirely doable deterministically 1928628;1565793522;*;asciilifeform brb:teatime 1928629;1565794297;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, seems like recurrent theme, tbh, not sure which piece 1928630;1565795915;billymg;mp_en_viaje: responded to your comment on the tester post http://billymg.com/2019/08/mp-wp-automated-testing-proposal-and-vpatch/comment-page-1/#comment-33 1928631;1565796073;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: found it -- http://trilema.com/2013/the-delusion-of-infrastructure/ 1928632;1565796148;asciilifeform;'Some people make new stuff... The herd gathers round the new item... The herd proceeds to interact with the new item... The fallen... come forth to "lead" the herd, to create "rules" for "the betterment" of the herd... The people continue to make their things exactly as they feel like... The herd moos happily' 1928633;1565796334;asciilifeform;so, to return to thrd, historically when tree grows through pavement 'successfully', a la lamp, the [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-265.0-265.730][naggumocalypse] is not far, eventually around tree is built 'city park', with 'rules & regulations', 9000 idlers & hobos with imagined 'rights' etc 1928634;1565796374;asciilifeform;and in short order you get the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928508][lemon market, where 'why should i pay a cent moar, i know i will get exactly same shit as from lolmart no matter how much i pay'] 1928635;1565796375;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:28:54 mp_en_viaje: linux-server-database-scriptglue. that's what it's gonna be. call them what you will, but try and remember : buying "alternatives" doesn't make you alternative. i buy rope from the rope store and server from the apache store because i don't wanna pay 5x for shittier rope bought at the "special bdsm store". it dun do nothing for me. 1928636;1565796660;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, btw, nice footer. i wonder how useful the random shooter will turn out 1928637;1565796671;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: already found bugs using it ! 1928638;1565796674;asciilifeform;(see yest. log) 1928639;1565796713;mp_en_viaje;nb. 1928640;1565796719;mp_en_viaje;billymg, i guess im stuck doing this, huh. 1928641;1565796741;asciilifeform;here's another somewhat obscure example of the progression. recall in 1990s there were 9000 makers of pocket comps ? the kind could pull out on train and type into. all but 1 such, ended up in thralldom to microshit, and packaged (in rom!) winblowz 'ce', abominable liquishit, but somehow '100% market dominant'. the 1 holdout was a brit outfit, 'psion' . i have 1 here in torture room, it has better responsiveness than most pc ! the re 1928642;1565796741;asciilifeform;st -- you can prolly predict. bought, turned into 'symbian', destroyed by idjicy. 1928643;1565796772;asciilifeform;thing ran on 1 of the 1st mass prod. 'arm' cpu, also. and y'know the rest of what happened to those. 1928644;1565797044;asciilifeform;there's no shortage of stories like this, they all begin and end in exactly same way, 'seen 1, seen'em all' 1928645;1565797081;asciilifeform;( on rare occasions, ends instead like bolix. but arguably similar enuff, fella who dies of heat and the other who -- of cold, still just as dead in the end) 1928646;1565797448;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928499 << this also interesting in light of now-~forgotten 1990s wrecks. at one time there was a product called 'be' (and in its early yrs came with own machine, designed from 0, 'bebox') and was , to many folx, 'definitive machine for video', unlike unixlikes or microshit, the kernel was [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215][built for realtime response above-all] . 1928647;1565797448;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:18:36 mp_en_viaje: now then, linux ~could have~ also been the definitive video stack, giving itself a lease on life extending past ~now. but then [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-11-27#1875595][they fucked it all up]. 1928648;1565797471;mp_en_viaje;then became... beos! 1928649;1565797471;asciilifeform;well guesswat. surrounded by microshit (with crapple as hand-puppet) lymphocytes, digested, shat out. 1928650;1565797485;asciilifeform;today lives in kunstkammer with the other abortusen 1928651;1565797559;asciilifeform;when 'be' was alive, could in fact edit film on (1990s! era) pc ! instead of on dedicated tape decks. as caught on only decade later, when microshit deemed it possible on their i-cant-believe-its-not-os 1928652;1565797592;billymg;mp_en_viaje: in theory we could write the tools that do what the heathen stack does, but i honestly think, given the intended purpose, it makes more sense to temporarily use them and then discard 1928653;1565797642;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, nb article, i had even forgotten it! 1928654;1565797682;mp_en_viaje;billymg, im actually working on a universal blog spec. it atm looks like 1928655;1565797682;mp_en_viaje;blog 1928656;1565797682;mp_en_viaje;.read 1928657;1565797682;mp_en_viaje;..header image, lowest layer, with title and byline superimposed, topmost layer. 1928658;1565797691;mp_en_viaje;nfi if i'll manage to finish it or scrap it, but we see. 1928659;1565797759;mp_en_viaje;im actually working [as per your orders] no less! 1928660;1565797797;billymg;asciilifeform, mp_en_viaje: incidentally i recently stumbled upon that article myself and shared with pet -- was happy that she both understood it and enjoyed it 1928661;1565797805;asciilifeform;billymg: which ? 1928662;1565797817;billymg;the delusion of infrastructure one 1928663;1565797824;asciilifeform;a 1928664;1565797856;asciilifeform;imho a++ likbez of subj. 1928665;1565797857;*;billymg finds himself attempting to curate items for pet to acclimate her to republic without overloading all at once 1928666;1565797898;mp_en_viaje;re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928620 specifically : the fucking retards ACTUALLY do this, buy cheap shitty plastirope, cut it to ridiculous length, sell it as "kinky rope" in colored cardboard 1928667;1565797899;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 12:08:00 asciilifeform: and in short order you get the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928508][lemon market, where 'why should i pay a cent moar, i know i will get exactly same shit as from lolmart no matter how much i pay'] 1928668;1565797926;asciilifeform;oh iknow, saw 9000 times. can see anywhere. consider crapple's $100 cables . 1928669;1565797939;mp_en_viaje;most of my implements started life as... pet toys, at pet store. all sorta silicone beaters, ball launchers that are epic for hurt and so on 1928670;1565797960;asciilifeform;i recall a mp_en_viaje piece where explained which parts of vacuum cleaner are best for this 1928671;1565797981;mp_en_viaje;some things, such as machined steel buttplugs, yes. some other things, holy hell no, shitty handcuffs with plastifur hotglued on sorta-kinda ?! 1928672;1565798062;asciilifeform;there was a 1990s piece re how chumps walk into ameri-'hardware store' and buy 'contractor-grade!111' plasti-tools that fall apart after 5 uses 1928673;1565798129;asciilifeform;read this 20y ago. and then 1 day found shop where ~actual~ industrial tooling sold. no flashing neons, in fact is unmarked hole in abandoned-looking warehouse, entirely disappears when the place is closed and the burglar grille is down. and open only 2d/wk. there -- can buy, sans plastic, actual e.g. pneumatic hammers etc. 1928674;1565798171;asciilifeform;former -- 'success', a la 'lamp. latter -- 'failure', i guess 1928675;1565798230;billymg;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928640 << awesome! even if implementation of tests change billymg would find this a useful map 1928676;1565798230;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 12:29:47 mp_en_viaje: billymg, im actually working on a universal blog spec. it atm looks like 1928677;1565798398;asciilifeform;... meanwhile, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-06-19#1485497][found] the [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5byMp/?raw=true][ancient piece] re the tools. 1928678;1565798398;snsabot;Logged on 2016-06-19 23:21:04 mircea_popescu: I myself used a Hole Hawg to drill many holes through studs, which it did as a blender chops cabbage. I also used it to cut a few six-inch-diameter holes through an old lath-and-plaster ceiling. I chucked in a new hole saw, went up to the second story, reached down between the newly installed floor joists, and began to cut through the first-floor ceiling below. Where my homeowner's drill had labored and whined 1928679;1565798841;asciilifeform;billymg: comment in yer mod queue 1928680;1565799117;asciilifeform;btw dunno if anyone other than asciilifeform noticed, but on acct of the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928364][uniturd sadness], we already have diverging line indices between the various loggers. 1928681;1565799117;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 00:52:29 asciilifeform: lobbes: ahaha, guesswhat, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Vkk23/?raw=true 1928682;1565799137;asciilifeform;( i.e. mine is behind by -- of last count -- 6 , vs phf's ) 1928683;1565799175;asciilifeform;i'ma not attempt to do anyffin about this unless mp_en_viaje says specifically what ought to. 1928684;1565799213;mp_en_viaje;well you're supposed to put the missing lines in, neh ? 1928685;1565799228;asciilifeform;then will nuke all the log refs since ! 1928686;1565799254;mp_en_viaje;this is why you need uptime. 1928687;1565799266;asciilifeform;hm? 1928688;1565799280;mp_en_viaje;yes, it will fuck log references, which is why you must not lose lines. 1928689;1565799362;asciilifeform;bot ate 100% of phf's log in testing phase w/out losing lines. but lobbes in fact discovered uniturds that break py's eater. i'ma implement the fix described by phf , but the q will remain re what, if anyffin, to do re the in-between. 1928690;1565799401;asciilifeform;( they 'broke eater' in the sense that lobbesbot's emission was not logged; bot did not fall down and lose other lines , note. ) 1928691;1565799411;mp_en_viaje;what in between ? 1928692;1565799430;mp_en_viaje;there's no in between. logger must reflect channel. that's what it does. 1928693;1565799436;asciilifeform;well the lines from yest. lobesbot , until when i have the fix tested & deployed. 1928694;1565799495;asciilifeform;these are complete other than the uniturd-containing emissions by lobbesbot. but result is that the numeration has diverged. ( we already discussed q of whether such divergence is 100% preventable in light of fleanode, tho , but inconclusively ) 1928695;1565799639;asciilifeform;if anyone thought 'hey asciilifeform can do in 5 days what phf did in 1yr' -- this is naive. 1928696;1565799738;mp_en_viaje;also neither here nor there. fix it, and then fix the references. 1928697;1565799757;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 'fix the refs' as in, modify stored lines ? 1928698;1565799767;asciilifeform;then will diverge also vs all other logs (incl. folxs' local logs) 1928699;1565799777;asciilifeform;can easily do this, but does mp_en_viaje want ? 1928700;1565799855;mp_en_viaje;yes, i want. it will diverge, but wtf can we do. 1928701;1565799868;asciilifeform;aite then will fix exactly like that. 1928702;1565799903;mp_en_viaje;ideally this is the last one of such little malfeasant bitchfailures, where logger goes on working but not right 1928703;1565799911;asciilifeform;( and will sign diff of affected lines ) 1928704;1565799947;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i'm still waiting to hear from e.g. ben_vulpes re what he did when bot fell down, to sync the indices with phf's 1928705;1565799968;asciilifeform;so far mine at least not fell down, but we have not yet seen this wonder, of bot that never once fell 1928706;1565799993;mp_en_viaje;i dunno that they're synced 1928707;1565800069;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: yer right : e.g. http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2019-8-14#479080 vs http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-14#1928706 1928708;1565800070;a111;Logged on 2019-08-14 16:26 mp_en_viaje: i dunno that they're synced 1928709;1565800090;asciilifeform;( wai such absolute magnitude of diff ?!!! ) 1928710;1565800122;mp_en_viaje;diff start times for one. 1928711;1565800127;asciilifeform;that'd do it 1928712;1565800132;mp_en_viaje;more practically : 1928713;1565800280;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-2-4#20314 is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-04#1611273 whereas http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2019-8-14#479086 (delta 458772) is http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-14#1928712 (delta 317439) 1928714;1565800283;a111;Logged on 2017-02-04 00:27 asciilifeform: in other perversities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbdZUCl9CA 1928715;1565800283;a111;Logged on 2019-08-14 16:28 mp_en_viaje: more practically : 1928716;1565800304;mp_en_viaje;magically, bv has 44,5% more lines 1928717;1565800336;asciilifeform;this horror aint even rare exception, but as i understand has happened to each logger to date when 1) bot fell 2) folx continued to speak 3) bot stood up . i'd like to devise a deterministic algo for wat-do in such cases, they will repeat for so long as we inhabit fleanode 1928718;1565800367;asciilifeform;and (contrary to what some may thing) asciilifeform is not awake 24/7 at console to turn the crank immediately 1928719;1565800372;asciilifeform;*think 1928720;1565800375;mp_en_viaje;a) put missing lines in b) bump all references accordingly. 1928721;1565800419;asciilifeform;seems like Right Thing . 1928722;1565800430;mp_en_viaje;whoever doesn't like, can abstain from same-day referencing. 1928723;1565800462;asciilifeform;( and is why i baked the 'raw export' knob, ideally this is to be semi-automated , i.e. logger operators oughta be able to look, compare to e.g. own local log, and resync if agree ) 1928724;1565800522;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i considered also to put 'delta' integer column in the db, specifically for this. 1928725;1565800592;mp_en_viaje;(i suspect diff is because bv silently discards join/part spam, but indexes it) 1928726;1565800608;asciilifeform;could be (dun display tho, so difficult to say for fact) 1928727;1565800823;billymg;asciilifeform: approved and replied, ty 1928728;1565801096;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928655 << Pet toys some of the few actual "durable" consumer goods on account of inability of princess in her own mind's inability to tell her dog to be gentle with the toys 1928729;1565801096;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 12:34:04 mp_en_viaje: most of my implements started life as... pet toys, at pet store. all sorta silicone beaters, ball launchers that are epic for hurt and so on 1928730;1565801170;mp_en_viaje;billymg, http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/ 1928731;1565801412;mp_en_viaje;if i really manage to make the damn thing fit in a deck fo cards ima celebrate. 1928732;1565801533;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: re the log indices, there's a deeper q, that i'd like to lay out and ask mp_en_viaje to actually take halfhr+ to think about, with brain in full throttle, before answering, cuz it is very easy to spec this in such a way that asciilifeform's (or anyone's) pair of hands will not in fact be long enuff or fast enuff to handle 1928733;1565801544;asciilifeform;consider, erry prev. log operator has gone mad. i suspect that know why. 1928734;1565801560;*;mp_en_viaje is all ears. 1928735;1565801571;asciilifeform;fleanode chan is not 'solid' object, it is a fecal object. in light of not only falling bots, but e.g. netsplits 1928736;1565801604;asciilifeform;erry single incident of 'fleanode weather' can create , within <1sec, a split that -- with hands -- will take 10min (of practiced hand) to fix 1928737;1565801616;asciilifeform;(and in the end still resulting in divergent text b/w loggers, as pointed out upstack) 1928738;1565801626;mp_en_viaje;yes. 1928739;1565801674;asciilifeform;the other side of this, is q of 'what is canonical log' . i.e. is it mp_en_viaje's terminal (runs for 3-4 hrs / d ? and where did not even notice index off, asciilifeform had to notice and ring alarm ) ? asciilifeform's term ? (runs 24/7, but down for maybe 10min / yr ) ? or dulap 's ? 1928740;1565801696;asciilifeform;this risks replay of 'clocks' flamewar, but at some pt gotta say 'this-here is canonical log'. 1928741;1565801705;mp_en_viaje;do we ? 1928742;1565801712;asciilifeform;suppose asciilifeform , mp_en_viaje , and BingoBoingo , all ended up on 1 side of netsplit. 1928743;1565801715;asciilifeform;and billymg on other. 1928744;1565801729;asciilifeform;would notice ? and what to do, when noticed, whose copy is 'it' ? 1928745;1565801752;mp_en_viaje;now consider this matter from the other pov. 1928746;1565801755;asciilifeform;ideally 'canonical' log imho would live in the rack under mp_en_viaje's throne. is how historically this sorta thing worx 1928747;1565801764;mp_en_viaje;this being not theoretical wank but actual lived history. 1928748;1565801793;asciilifeform;afaik the only extant sys which solved w/out 'rack in throne' is bitcoin. 1928749;1565801808;mp_en_viaje;for long time mp was always-on, ran private multiple redundant loggers, etc. then mp went traveling, explicitly. 1928750;1565801853;mp_en_viaje;and in month 4 or so of this traveling, where in other words mp was relying on other people to establish for him what is log, mp threw up because could not obtain a copy he could trust to scream at mod6 on good basis rather than on weak basis. 1928751;1565801862;mp_en_viaje;this is what precipitated the aug 2 darkness. 1928752;1565801865;*;asciilifeform recalls 1928753;1565801888;mp_en_viaje;now -- i did not do this because i was bored or lacking for activity. i did it because imo it's very constructive. 1928754;1565801900;mp_en_viaje;i do not believe such a thing as ~a~ cannonical copy may exist. 1928755;1565801929;mp_en_viaje;the costs to defend / benefits to attack mount exponentially, it is not a stable design. 1928756;1565801932;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i'm not about to make argument 'eh i have drinking to do , rather than sync logs'. but if it takes fleanode 100msec to make a split, and asciilifeform -- 5min to fix it, this is not tenable to maintain promise of 'ultimate log' 1928757;1565801945;mp_en_viaje;nor do i think that's what's desired. 1928758;1565801967;mp_en_viaje;in my mind, the process works through -- everyone, mp included, has to make ~a judgement~, their own judgement, at any given point, re the logs. 1928759;1565801990;asciilifeform;i'd like to avoid the situation where ' asciilifeform fixed on best-effort basis, and 1 time breaks leg' and then like phf. 1928760;1565802004;mp_en_viaje;which is why "logging monopoly" was listed with the "sadness" in the possible outcomes list. 1928761;1565802011;mp_en_viaje;if it were joyous i'd havejust done it, you know ? 1928762;1565802029;asciilifeform;which is why i put in raw-export, db dump (0 hrs / daily newyork time) etc 1928763;1565802041;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yes, but hard to like-phf when actually communicating things, on one hand. and on the other, hopefully multiple of these. 1928764;1565802042;asciilifeform;ideally would have 5-6 ~heterogeneous~ loggers 1928765;1565802045;mp_en_viaje;yes. 1928766;1565802077;asciilifeform;we dun have'em yet tho. and if tonight fleanode 'storm' and 9,000,000 splits, then wat. 1928767;1565802084;mp_en_viaje;and not ~merely~ multiple as nude existence. nude as reflective process, people keeping track of them. 1928768;1565802100;asciilifeform;naturally, when say 'logger' mean 'human', rather than the space heater 1928769;1565802102;asciilifeform;as in, operators 1928770;1565802106;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, then we be sad. what can we do ? http://trilema.com/2015/a-lunatic-with-a-bloodied-axe-could-be-ringing-at-your-door/ !!! 1928771;1565802124;asciilifeform;~this~ particular lunatic rings door with some regularity. 1928772;1565802124;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i mean deeper, like x going "hey y, why is your logger divergent from z's in k spot" 1928773;1565802158;asciilifeform;but as it is, we have 'memory leak' for operator time -- enemy can trivially occupy 100% of l1 hands for arbitrary time w/ the work of spoon-feeding logs 1928774;1565802165;mp_en_viaje;this is kinda-sorta where my "add logger to mp-wp pages" thing goes towards. conceivably one could have a reconcillation process as part of one's blog 1928775;1565802183;mp_en_viaje;as step towards ye gossipd of lore. 1928776;1565802207;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/ << Trilema -- What is a blog ? Complete spec inside! 1928777;1565802211;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, in principle, yes. historically i kept discouraging you personally from making logger because to my (admittedly -- naive) mind it was task perfectly suited to ambitious youth 1928778;1565802215;mp_en_viaje;turns out -- eminently not. 1928779;1565802230;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i'm not married to a particular set of junkyard wrecks out of what people to make loggers. but the solution has to be reasonably automatic, or e.g. asciilifeform for the rest of his days will be doing nuffin but munging db, and it ~still~ won't be satisfactorily correct 1928780;1565802243;asciilifeform;atm logger is actually eating 100% of asciilifeform . 1928781;1565802248;mp_en_viaje;i believe. 1928782;1565802251;asciilifeform;( and still arguably dud ! ) 1928783;1565802269;mp_en_viaje;i am hoping the cp1252 bs is the last of the nonsense. 1928784;1565802294;mp_en_viaje;your fleet of flasks though, that's unstable, and will likely blow up in future imo, but that's another time. 1928785;1565802296;asciilifeform;well ~that~ nonsense yes. but netsplits etc. will continue for so long as fleanode 1928786;1565802305;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: phuctor running since '13 on it. 1928787;1565802315;mp_en_viaje;i believe. 1928788;1565802315;asciilifeform;( and on its, what, 4th box ) 1928789;1565802329;asciilifeform;depending on what means 'stable' mp_en_viaje could be right. 1928790;1565802336;asciilifeform;it aint unstable in the 'falls down like win95' sense tho. 1928791;1565802351;mp_en_viaje;anyway, your idea is "what happens if logger netsplit" ? could we revisit this after 2-3 actual resplits ? 1928792;1565802356;mp_en_viaje;netsplits* 1928793;1565802368;asciilifeform;arguably -- unstable in the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927225 sense . 1928794;1565802368;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 11:27:26 asciilifeform: diana_coman: atm i'm somewhat curious whether the logotron is even reproducible 1928795;1565802455;asciilifeform;the whole q reduces to gossipd, as mp_en_viaje pointed out already. atm we're attempting to hand-crank gossipd. 1928796;1565802492;mp_en_viaje;i suspect this is so. 1928797;1565802577;mp_en_viaje;but my reasoning is (and was, trhoughout), "well, let's see then" 1928798;1565802584;asciilifeform;i'ma fix the uniturdism in coming days. and diddle the log as described by mp_en_viaje . but when next net split, or bot eventually falls (no one afaik has yet written/hosted bot that did not fall at least erry 6wks ) we will have to revisit the wat-do 1928799;1565802599;mp_en_viaje;well, maybe not the very-next 1928800;1565802602;mp_en_viaje;but yes. 1928801;1565802608;asciilifeform;ideally by then can auto-sync from e.g. diana's bot in fortran 1928802;1565802659;mp_en_viaje;i expect large portions of lobbesbot actually salvageable ; spyked was making a lisp one too iirc. 1928803;1565802680;asciilifeform;i admit, i half-expected mp_en_viaje to pick up his skepter and declare 'this here is only working logger atm, and the breaking turd is a uniturd from bot, let errybody else lose the 6lines' 1928804;1565802697;mp_en_viaje;why ? 1928805;1565802722;asciilifeform;cuz the alternative is eventually http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928742 . sooner or later. 1928806;1565802723;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 13:41:36 asciilifeform: i'd like to avoid the situation where ' asciilifeform fixed on best-effort basis, and 1 time breaks leg' and then like phf. 1928807;1565802761;mp_en_viaje;you didn't miss the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928746 part, did you ? 1928808;1565802762;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 13:42:26 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, but hard to like-phf when actually communicating things, on one hand. and on the other, hopefully multiple of these. 1928809;1565802766;asciilifeform;presently i suspect that even three dedicated folx, working in shifts, could not reliably 'meat gossipd' 100% 1928810;1565802830;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: no, i get. but i dun have a squad of people who will immediately report ' asciilifeform broke leg, is in ditch ' . have 1, who is trained to report -- if doesn't simultaneously break leg/neck with asciilifeform . 1928811;1565802860;asciilifeform;what i also have, is long (and much backed up) queue of tmsr work that aint 'hand feed logger' 1928812;1565802876;mp_en_viaje;i feel you, man. 1928813;1565802897;mp_en_viaje;da fuck can we do. contrary to popular fiction, i dun have any reality-altering regalia. 1928814;1565802905;asciilifeform;unlike the gurlz, i dun need particularly anyone to 'feel for', but would like something resembling a sustainable algo. 1928815;1565802920;mp_en_viaje;can sometimes alter minds, and more rarely the future. but the past... 1928816;1565802941;mp_en_viaje;well, so far the algo is, let it die 2-3 times and we see then. 1928817;1565802947;asciilifeform;aite. 1928818;1565802989;asciilifeform;i'ma fix the uni-idjicy found by lobbes ( and apparently described in log by phf 2+ y ago ) , and add the 'did i join or am i pissing into wind' detector discussed 2d ago, to bot 1928819;1565802998;mp_en_viaje;cool. 1928820;1565802998;asciilifeform;but 'weather' will remain open q . 1928821;1565803024;mp_en_viaje;indeed. 1928822;1565803098;mp_en_viaje;and dun let the (understandable) anxiety of it eat your brain. we shall figure it out, on the basis of meeting it irl. 1928823;1565803277;asciilifeform;i dun so much suffer from anxieties, but would like folx to know that currently asciilifeform built not proper wall, but the kind portrayed in mp_en_viaje's old ro piece where 'builder stands and holds up' 1928824;1565803293;asciilifeform;this ties up hands . 1928825;1565803998;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928760 << i still think, tbh, that it would be ideal for one such. but so far errybody broke teeth. 1928826;1565803999;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 13:45:17 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, in principle, yes. historically i kept discouraging you personally from making logger because to my (admittedly -- naive) mind it was task perfectly suited to ambitious youth 1928827;1565804045;*;asciilifeform actually found himself sitting to think, for hour+, before picking up the logger grenade 1928828;1565804090;*;asciilifeform ended up with 'партия сказала надо -- комсомол ответил: есть!' but largely from lack of any apparent motion on front by other folx 1928829;1565804400;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's logger intended moar as ice breaker ship, to make the subj navigable, than final solution. and 'final' -- as already detailed by mp_en_viaje -- would be a constellation of heterogeneous items that know how to speak a common sync, operated by diff people. 1928830;1565804622;asciilifeform;( and out of ~which~ fortrans people make'em -- php, focal, cobol, whatever -- is distinctly secondary q ) 1928831;1565805467;phf;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928700 << in general this hasn't happened to a111 (though i don't have full netsplit coverage, since that requires a bot per all the possible servers we are connected to), i've described the solution in logs, though i can't find it now. when a111 falls over, on reconnect it asks the znc machine to give it all the messages since the timestamp of last known message (+3 hours to 1928832;1565805467;phf;accommodate drift). the messages are then merged into the log (i.e. i find the overlap of known messages, and then add the missing messages). since both znc and a111 tend to be fairly stable, the combination of the two provided adequate coverage 1928833;1565805467;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 13:14:01 asciilifeform: this horror aint even rare exception, but as i understand has happened to each logger to date when 1) bot fell 2) folx continued to speak 3) bot stood up . i'd like to devise a deterministic algo for wat-do in such cases, they will repeat for so long as we inhabit fleanode 1928834;1565805489;asciilifeform;wb phf . just 1 znc, or multiples ? 1928835;1565805585;phf;just one, this provided enough redundancy, but also allowed for a trivial merge algorithm. i suspect with multiple znc you'll have to work harder to discover consensus 1928836;1565805603;asciilifeform;considering reordering, would need sumthing like , e.g., 1928837;1565805606;asciilifeform;!qs needleman 1928838;1565805608;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=needleman&chan=trilema][19 results for "needleman" in #trilema] 1928839;1565805652;*;asciilifeform actually posted working coad for n-w . but, naturally, in CL.. 1928840;1565805696;phf;also znc is incidental, i have a trivial flask (or maybe "bottle") server that parses znc logs and gives the result out in the log-format 1928841;1565805723;phf;this is basically the same as your special endpoint for giving out the 500 log messages 1928842;1565805764;asciilifeform;right, assumed that phf meant 'znc' in abstract, i.e. any proggy that logs straight to txt , rather than concretely znc 1928843;1565805845;asciilifeform;phf: at the risk of 'broken record', i gotta say that all of this would be 9000x moar helpful if existed as genesis , rather than asciilifeform to sit and derive from old logs and phf's summary, how was done. 1928844;1565805891;asciilifeform;phf: my logbot genesis is some of the ugliest piece of shit yet put through 'v' . so dun be afraid to publish similar. 1928845;1565805959;asciilifeform;in general folx oughta overcome this phobia. took me -- yrs. but gotta be done. piece of shit that was genesis'd -- can be fixed. whereas if not genesis'd, how can fix ? 1928846;1565806021;asciilifeform;i genesised 5000ln+ of fucking asm!! last month. and scarcely expect that anyone will read, aside maybe from mp_en_viaje's gurlz as a punishment detail. but it has to be done. 1928847;1565806059;phf;asciilifeform: well i gave you timeframe, it's easy for me to provide a few hints right now, significantly harder to unwrap a ball of yarn 1928848;1565806083;asciilifeform;phf: aha 1928849;1565806137;asciilifeform;i vaguely suspected that phf's proggy exists as currently-unreproducible (i.e. not fully represented by the source) 'save-lisp-and-die' ball 1928850;1565806163;asciilifeform;when unravelled -- plox to post, i will read. (and if find that actually fits into asciilifeform's head -- sign.) 1928851;1565809455;diana_alt;hello from Vilnius, /me slowly catches up with the logs 1928852;1565820155;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/verizon-unloads-tumblr-on-automattic-after-value-collapses-under-porn-ban/ << Qntra -- Verizon Unloads Tumblr On Automattic After Value Collapses Under Porn Ban 1928853;1565820167;mp_en_viaje;ahahahahaaa 1928854;1565820278;mp_en_viaje;and automattic paid in [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-05-18#1914558][kelly bundy money]. hey dorks... you could've hit me up, the half bitcoin or w/e you actually got for the "[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928521][valuable online property]" is not so hard to match for the actual billionaires in this world. 1928855;1565820279;snsabot;Logged on 2019-05-18 02:05:52 mp_en_viaje: because it takes a certain dose of insanity to think the equation you solved was the equation that was being presented. you recall that episone in married with children when christina applegate was saving cereal box K's to buy car ? 1928856;1565820279;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 04:22:13 mp_en_viaje: ant to continue : https://internet.com/ ; much like [http://trilema.com/2015/okcupidcom-the-dating-site/][IAC], QuinnStreet is a "S&P 600 Component", you know, with supposed revenue out of those shit "properties" and assorted other self-imagined bullshit. [http://trilema.com/2011/succese-ilustrate-in-publicitate/?b=Groupon%20was&e=owner#select][believe]. 1928857;1565820299;mp_en_viaje;fancy that, could've put it right back on the street, ban anyone who ~never~ published any cunt instead. 1928858;1565820428;BingoBoingo;Seriously. I suspect the fact you might have actually bought it if they solicited bids is why the details are undisclosed 1928859;1565820495;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in lulzy screencaps: http://archive.is/Nb1fT 1928860;1565820745;BingoBoingo;Forbes is Derping English about how "Argentina won't become Venezuela" even though Argentina is entering this crisis with even less to offer than Venezuela ever had (at least after burning mineral oils for energy became a thing). 1928861;1565821088;mp_en_viaje;to continue the keks : "PC Magazine reported that in December, Tumblr had an estimated 520 million visits, which dropped to 436 million in January and then 369 million in February." ; https://i.ibb.co/VL0Vmps/lulztumblr.png 1928862;1565821113;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, not to mention venezuelan chicks fuckable in the first place. 1928863;1565821139;BingoBoingo;Indeed. They also speak more clearly and more kitchen competent. 1928864;1565821167;mp_en_viaje;anyways... that tumblr thing... keks of all time. 1928865;1565821181;mp_en_viaje;im like tear-eyed over here. 1928866;1565821273;mp_en_viaje;basically this whole thing is just [http://trilema.com/2010/bani-pentru-piariste/][2010] scaled up. 1928867;1565821284;mp_en_viaje;same dumb cunts, except esl rather than rsl. 1928868;1565821684;BingoBoingo;This is a very kek'y week 1928869;1565822362;mp_en_viaje;so it is 1928870;1565824421;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928837 << lol!! why wouldja want it ?! 1928871;1565824422;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 18:46:25 mp_en_viaje: and automattic paid in [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-05-18#1914558][kelly bundy money]. hey dorks... you could've hit me up, the half bitcoin or w/e you actually got for the "[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928521][valuable online property]" is not so hard to match for the actual billionaires in this world. 1928872;1565824453;asciilifeform;thing is what -- an ad-encrusted 'pastebin' ? 1928873;1565824453;mp_en_viaje;nfi that i would. but potentially, as i said, to ban anyone who didn't post tits. 1928874;1565824497;mp_en_viaje;eh, what's pron traffic anymore, a buck per thousand clicks ? if half those pageviews are real there you go, 200k/month or so. 1928875;1565824562;asciilifeform;if i understand correctly the ad-chumpatron , these 200 will be paid in 'coupon good to buy ads yourself' or other 'iou' 1928876;1565824576;asciilifeform;as portrayed in mp_en_viaje's 'unflattering truth' 1928877;1565824587;asciilifeform;( http://trilema.com/2015/you-know-what-gets-no-airplay-unflattering-truth/ ) 1928878;1565824620;mp_en_viaje;nah, different ends. these 200k are ~equivalent of rounding up 100k girlies in india / rwanda refugee camp etc. 1928879;1565824625;asciilifeform;a. 1928880;1565824637;asciilifeform;i.e. lotta work for a ??? output ? 1928881;1565824647;mp_en_viaje;"any blowjob $2" "why would i want to stick my cock in this ?" "$2!!!" 1928882;1565824675;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in vaguely related lulz : http://vagazine.com/vaga_v3/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Sharon_Gault_makeup_David_LaChapelle4.jpg 1928883;1565824676;mp_en_viaje;guess item 1928884;1565824679;mp_en_viaje;s claim to fame. 1928885;1565824693;asciilifeform;ugh cant unsee 1928886;1565824708;asciilifeform;hey BingoBoingo ^ 1 for your files 1928887;1565824796;mp_en_viaje;supposedly someone slipped her a mickey ~and sodomized her~ during madonna's 1991 tour. 1928888;1565824824;asciilifeform;i take it portrait is modern , and not '91 ? 1928889;1565824835;asciilifeform;or saying someone whateverized ~that~ 1928890;1565824867;mp_en_viaje;she was always fat. 1928891;1565824890;mp_en_viaje;portrait is i'd guess decade old by now 1928892;1565824924;asciilifeform;i guess possible, [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/the_spittoon.txt]['"I s-s-said that they w-w-weren't hogs. They were s-sows", Slim managed to choke out, so overcome with fear that a thin stream of hot liquid diarreah began to dribble...'] 1928893;1565825089;asciilifeform;wtf, incidentally, is 'Automattic' ? sounds familiar for some reason 1928894;1565825121;asciilifeform;aa ha 'the parent company of Wordpress.com, the popular online publishing system' apparently 1928895;1565825151;asciilifeform;iirc same graveyard as 'slashdot' an' 'digg' ? 1928896;1565825194;mp_en_viaje;no, digg kept getting spun and respun, slashdot got bought by some spammer outfit that promptly went to shit. 1928897;1565825218;asciilifeform;this one not to-shit tho ? in what sense is wp even a saleable product ? 1928898;1565825219;BingoBoingo;Automattic lives because it proliferates USG DDoS hazard 1928899;1565825229;asciilifeform;ah hm i suppose in ~that~ sense 1928900;1565825256;mp_en_viaje;digg ~still~ [http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/][pretends to relevancy], to this very day. their claim just as good at any point throughout as reddit's, actually. just... no note from hitler, meaning pravda dun ever mention digg with the pomp & implication it mentions reddit 1928901;1565825259;mp_en_viaje;otherwise, ===/ 1928902;1565825263;BingoBoingo;They charge ~100 bucks a year for "use own domain with wordpress.com blog" or something like that 1928903;1565825351;asciilifeform;hm i thought 'digg' mostly emptied out in the infamous 'decss incident' 1928904;1565825576;mp_en_viaje;reddit emptied out once they turned on their pedo constituency to gain approval from the oldcunt lobby. 1928905;1565825604;asciilifeform;rright but digg iirc in '07 or around, emptied 1928906;1565825704;asciilifeform;[http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/][vintage lul re subj of the demolition wank] 1928907;1565825768;mp_en_viaje;well, reddit couldn't have emptied at same time as it ~didn't exist back then. but still, they did their best and 2012ish or so i think it was ? 1928908;1565825781;asciilifeform;iirc it even existed, in embryonic form, then 1928909;1565825809;*;asciilifeform quit reddit long before '12 , cannot comment re when 'peak' 1928910;1565825833;asciilifeform;through my lens, peak was '07ish. 1928911;1565825841;asciilifeform;( of readability, rather than mass ) 1928912;1565825971;mp_en_viaje;reddit peak in 2007 ?! 1928913;1565825992;mp_en_viaje;this is like saying internet peaked in 1992. sure, by any other criterion than whatever they actually use. 1928914;1565826013;asciilifeform;aaha, from my pov. when it was a hand-sewn www forum for 20 or so commonlisp holdouts 'who didn't know the war ended'(tm) 1928915;1565826025;asciilifeform;internet indeed peaked in '92!11 1928916;1565826068;*;asciilifeform missed -- peak. didn't get dirty hands in till '93... 1928917;1565826300;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 'oldcunt lobby' prolly Officially holds that gurlz 'peak' at 55. they can apply their standard, i can apply other. 1928918;1565826342;mp_en_viaje;aite. 1928919;1565826384;asciilifeform;and in so far as i know, reddit never made a lick of profit 1928920;1565826483;mp_en_viaje;certainly not. 1928921;1565826525;asciilifeform;+ even possible that the best financial health it was ever in, was '07, when all it owed was 4figs to old man graham 1928922;1565826527;mp_en_viaje;all the usg webshits are exercises in http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-images-no-longer-showing/#comment-130435 1928923;1565826575;asciilifeform;well also in http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ 1928924;1565826684;mp_en_viaje;that;s the other thign re tumblr : it likely costs 1-2mn/month to run as it is. could prolly be ran for 1-200k, but [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-06-16#1825989][as you point out], not by esltards. 1928925;1565826684;snsabot;Logged on 2018-06-16 11:06:11 asciilifeform: if bought from usg, yes, million 1928926;1565826720;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i distinctly recall that it in fact is 1 of those 'indian coad' wwws that randomly drops db commits 1928927;1565826779;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-02-18#1615434][see also] 1928928;1565826779;snsabot;Logged on 2017-02-18 22:54:14 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron) 1928929;1565826848;mp_en_viaje;right 1928930;1565826936;mp_en_viaje;and [http://trilema.com/2015/fuck-you-and-your-stupid-epub-also-david-thornes-2nd-book-it-isnt-really-very-good/?b=Jodie%20is&e=leave#select][office space for Jodie] 1928931;1565826953;asciilifeform;as in 'unflatt. truth', aha 1928932;1565827023;*;asciilifeform once listened to a d00d, who, with straight face, 'we then got $100m in series-a fund; but of course immediately 30 had to spend on web site..' 1928933;1565827080;mp_en_viaje;imagine that lulz. and they got... a lamp. 1928934;1565827086;*;asciilifeform assumed, tho never found out, that then 70 spent on sofas. 1928935;1565827087;asciilifeform;aha 1928936;1565827119;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: given context, chances are it wasn't even 'lamp' but.. microshit 1928937;1565827188;mp_en_viaje;sublamp 1928938;1565830331;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in interwebs dramaz, https://twitter.com/deepnudeapp (tl;dr : dorks made a "fake nude" app, got scared of response.) 1928939;1565830342;mp_en_viaje;obviously, trivial to make a fake nude app. anyone wanna ? 1928940;1565830367;asciilifeform;iirc there's leaked sores 1928941;1565830480;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-birth-order-are-first-borns-always-older-than-their-siblings-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Birth Order: Are First Borns Always Older Than Their Siblings? Adnotated. 1928942;1565833490;lobbes;asciilifeform: if it helps, here is the [http://logs.minigame.biz/eulora_log_2015_to_2019_debug.hexdump.txt][full hexdump] of the problem #e indicies 1928943;1565833495;lobbes;and for good measure, [http://logs.minigame.biz/eulora_log_2015_to_2019_debug.txt][the original list with loglines] 1928944;1565843593;billymg;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928713 << gave it a quick read, this should be enough for me to continue with writing the tests. i might have questions later as i make progress, will leave comments on the post if so 1928945;1565843594;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 13:27:55 mp_en_viaje: billymg, http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/ 1928946;1565856251;mp_en_viaje;!!up diana_alt 1928947;1565856251;deedbot;diana_alt voiced for 30 minutes. 1928948;1565856305;mp_en_viaje;billymg, works. amusingly enough, as far as i currently know that list is ~completr~. can use it to cut against! 1928949;1565856332;mp_en_viaje;i might end up discovering you cut too much, but what's the big deal, original still remains, can be easily fixed, and we learn thingsfor the money. 1928950;1565857815;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in [http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-other-dead-things/][continuing lulz], http://www.suck-o.com/ 1928951;1565876437;mp_en_viaje;fucking endearing : "Most users ever online was 15 on 05 Jul 2010, 11:30" ; meanwhile [http://www.suck-o.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=11443][Design and Program a Computer]. 1928952;1565877137;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: link gives only login prompt 1928953;1565878292;mp_en_viaje;lmao tards. 1928954;1565878369;mp_en_viaje;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fZkJM/?raw=true << dump 1928955;1565879575;asciilifeform;loox like a schoolboy site of the '90s style ( 'learn haxxing! phreaking!' ) and dusty. 1928956;1565879656;asciilifeform;lemme guess, it came to mp_en_viaje in a spam ? 1928957;1565883281;asciilifeform;meanwhile - [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-15#1000200][in lulzmoments from neighbouring castles] 1928958;1565883281;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 12:11:56 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-15#1000191 That was a disgustingly fleshed out, but weirdly instructive story which made me laugh (a bit) and cringe (a lot). I'm not sure if I'll eat anything for awhile, but I get what you meant. That being said, - I can't think of any non-docker solution to a reproducible environment other than creating a 'frozen version', preferably under version 1928959;1565889839;asciilifeform;lobbes, mp_en_viaje , et al : strangely, having problem reproducing the unibarf discovered by lobbes . pasting the text from the barf samples into test chan, doesn't produce the expected barf, it gets eaten normally 1928960;1565889871;asciilifeform;lobbes: would it be difficult to park lobbesbot temporarily in #asciilifeform-test ? 1928961;1565890913;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/british-gibraltar-releases-iranian-tanker-over-us-objections/ << Qntra -- British Gibraltar Releases Iranian Tanker Over US Objections 1928962;1565892838;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/six-cops-attempting-to-invade-philadelphia-home-shot-by-lone-defender/ << Qntra -- Six Cops Attempting To Invade Philadelphia Home Shot By Lone Defender 1928963;1565892893;asciilifeform;lol!! sumbody give this fella 'order of lenin' 1928964;1565893133;BingoBoingo;It amazes me how many "Anti-socialist" alt-alt rags are pointedly NOT highlighting Black American Patriot Maurice Hill as a warrior against the state 1928965;1565893162;asciilifeform;whoknows, maybe ashamed, fella apparently not master marksman, all the targets lived ? 1928966;1565893258;BingoBoingo;Well, wounded more expensive than the dead 1928967;1565893287;asciilifeform;i picture would depend on where wounded 1928968;1565893326;BingoBoingo;Well, at least one in head 1928969;1565893355;BingoBoingo;Also the dead don't need 100 USD aspirins etc 1928970;1565893378;asciilifeform;tru. ( tho iirc they get widow pensions, etc. also adding up to pretty penny ) 1928971;1565893463;BingoBoingo;Can Philadelphia cops afford marriage while living to leave widows? 1928972;1565893507;asciilifeform;previous newswanks suggest that they can. 1928973;1565893596;BingoBoingo;It's also not like the wounded don't get disability pensions, often concurrent with ongoing paycheck. 1928974;1565893608;asciilifeform;this is a point. 1928975;1565893650;BingoBoingo;Kinda why Dependapotomi pick the targets they do. 1928976;1565895175;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928943 << parked 1928977;1565895176;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 14:06:22 asciilifeform: lobbes: would it be difficult to park lobbesbot temporarily in #asciilifeform-test ? 1928978;1565895328;asciilifeform;ty lobbes ! 1928979;1565895620;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 283mn 26 2835 WFF, Wire Only 1928980;1565895620;auctionbot;Buy order # 1052 created by BingoBoingo: 2835 WFF, Wire Only Opening: 283mn ecu Ending: 2019-08-16 09:10:50.807867 UTC (25 hours) 1928981;1565895628;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 51mn 26 500 WFF, WU esta bien 1928982;1565895629;auctionbot;Buy order # 1053 created by BingoBoingo: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Opening: 51mn ecu Ending: 2019-08-16 09:10:59.183107 UTC (25 hours) 1928983;1565912975;asciilifeform;meanwhile, update re unitardation -- [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928526][phf's pill] doesn't cure -- decoder successfully falls back to 'latin-1', if set up as described, and dun barf ; but ~encoder~ barfs in pg ( cur.execute(query, args) ) 1928984;1565912976;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 07:42:01 phf: i even explain how to do it in python http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546421 1928985;1565913139;asciilifeform;atm it aint even clear to asciilifeform that it is possible to store >1 encoding in a given pg 1928986;1565913193;asciilifeform;or for that matter why a x = foo.decode('latin-1') even can result in a x that later chokes pg when x.encode('utf-8') is put into a sqlism 1928987;1565913259;asciilifeform;or, moreover, whythefuck pg even gives half a shit re how the txt is encoded. 1928988;1565913306;asciilifeform;infuriating liquishit, this entire stack. 1928989;1565913950;*;asciilifeform dug on www, found 9000+ folx with same barf, but nuffin resembling a pill 1928990;1565914088;asciilifeform;before anyone suggests 'store'em in pg as bins, not text' -- nope, cuz you can't index for text search on bins 1928991;1565914242;asciilifeform;[http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FnuUa/?raw=true][current variant (w/ phf's non-curative decode-fallback)]. 1928992;1565915428;*;asciilifeform burned entire evening on this, and is no closer to a ~lead~ to a solution (not even speaking of actual solution) than before. 1928993;1565915651;asciilifeform;~pasting~ e.g. '2000000 ÷ (154 × 1088 × 1.25) = 9.549274255x' dun trigger the barfolade, btw. cuz on civilized box, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928926][lobbes's txt] is ALREADY utf8 when yer viewing it. only triggering lobbes's echo , where it pisses the malcoded garbage straight into irc, triggers. 1928994;1565915651;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 22:26:42 lobbes: and for good measure, [http://logs.minigame.biz/eulora_log_2015_to_2019_debug.txt][the original list with loglines] 1928995;1565915856;asciilifeform;why the fuck is this even a good idea ? to support [http://trilema.com/2016/unicode-is-fucking-stupid-the-definitive-article/?b=Because&e=sir#select][arbitrary liquishit in logs ?] imho the Right Thing would be 'if you want yer logs imported or echoed, put'em into utf8 or stuff up arse' . 1928996;1565915988;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928976 << see, worx 1928997;1565915989;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 21:16:03 asciilifeform: ~pasting~ e.g. '2000000 ÷ (154 × 1088 × 1.25) = 9.549274255x' dun trigger the barfolade, btw. cuz on civilized box, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928926][lobbes's txt] is ALREADY utf8 when yer viewing it. only triggering lobbes's echo , where it pisses the malcoded garbage straight into irc, triggers. 1928998;1565916119;asciilifeform;'I mean literally, the guy's from Washitistan, they write things with their own excrement there, and the Unicode Foundation introduced actual excrement in the standard so now whenever someone asks for the networking code in your project they are delivered physical faeces on cardboard. About fifty eight acres of it. Where would you like this put, sir ?' (tm)(r)(mp) 1928999;1565916346;asciilifeform;unless someone supplies, in next coupla days, a simple AND WORKING pill, i'ma do this : anything coming into the bot that dun decode cleanly as utf8, will have the offending chars (i.e. any with 8th bit set) replaced with that glyph that depicts a steaming pile of shit. 1929000;1565916368;asciilifeform;and whoever doesn't like it, can write own logger. and if mp_en_viaje wants to tear off my epaulettes and make own logger in cobol, he can. 1929001;1565916778;asciilifeform;there exist, incidentally, at least a dozen liquishit encodings that aint either ascii or utf8. and SOMEBODY's terminal supports'em. but imho [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-02-02#1779522][the fact that fleanode actually eats and relays these, is a bug! of fleanode.] 1929002;1565916779;snsabot;Logged on 2018-02-02 11:23:06 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die. 1929003;1565917144;asciilifeform;grudgingly i built in utf8 so that can say кто ты по жизни and τὰ γὰρ ὀψώνια τῆς ἁμαρτίας θάνατος etc. but , for all that has been said re utf8, it is at least supported by postgres . whereas i am not about to spend rest of life trying to write 'dwim ai' to eat erry possible microshit encoding that someone may have at whatever point excreted . 1929004;1565917493;asciilifeform;let the people who smeared the 58 acres of shit on cardboard, stuffed it into their modem, and sent it to fleanode, clean it up. 1929005;1565917576;asciilifeform;and if someone wants to write 100,000 lines of shitython to write 'dwim', let him fucking scroll to the bottom of the log page, click 'get source', grab the fucking vtree, and write. 1929006;1565919584;asciilifeform;btw just as i thought, lobbes's searchtron [http://logs.minigame.biz/search/?q=%C3%88%C3%8C%C3%98%C2%B1%C3%92%C3%93%C3%8E%C3%8F][fails] if fed the liquishit in question. 1929007;1565919723;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat 1929008;1565920071;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928982 << I personally dun have any issue with this, but that is just me. Any yeah, not like someone down the line can't make a vpatch for a pill 1929009;1565920071;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 21:27:38 asciilifeform: unless someone supplies, in next coupla days, a simple AND WORKING pill, i'ma do this : anything coming into the bot that dun decode cleanly as utf8, will have the offending chars (i.e. any with 8th bit set) replaced with that glyph that depicts a steaming pile of shit. 1929010;1565920075;lobbes;In either case, I'll be spending some time this evening working on genesis-ing my own current #e logotron. If anything just for posterity 1929011;1565950769;mp_en_viaje;o look, dramaz ?! 1929012;1565950849;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928938 << it exactly is. back in 2014. when what they ~should~have been doing was showing us their tits. and complete with "selling imaginary pets for bitcoin" and assorted "ima bring reality to my level, the alternative's too much work" bullshit. 1929013;1565950849;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 11:14:45 asciilifeform: loox like a schoolboy site of the '90s style ( 'learn haxxing! phreaking!' ) and dusty. 1929014;1565950858;mp_en_viaje;but whatever, give kids more "self-esteem" 1929015;1565950917;mp_en_viaje;you know i was at club last night, with the only two cunts anyone'd fuckl in the joint, and this moronic twentysomething (groomed beard, of course) sat next to me while one was off getting more drinks to explain to me what his needs were ? 1929016;1565950956;mp_en_viaje;COMPLETELY the fuck lost in the galaxies & brownie ways witin their own colon 1929017;1565951098;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928942 << yoi're pasting it AS UNICODE. gotta paste it AS windows child porn ([http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928387][CP1252]). 1929018;1565951098;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 14:05:50 asciilifeform: lobbes, mp_en_viaje , et al : strangely, having problem reproducing the unibarf discovered by lobbes . pasting the text from the barf samples into test chan, doesn't produce the expected barf, it gets eaten normally 1929019;1565951099;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 02:06:25 mp_en_viaje: All the CP1252 characters are also available in Unicode. For example the CP1252 character 146 that you mentioned (RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK) has the Unicode number 8217, therefore you should use this number in order to conform to the HTML standard. Modern HTML browsers like Netscape 4.0 understand Unicode, and will automatically convert the Unicode character ’ back into the character 146 on MS-Windows mach 1929020;1565951125;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928944 << aaaite, top keks. 1929021;1565951125;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 14:23:44 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/08/british-gibraltar-releases-iranian-tanker-over-us-objections/ << Qntra -- British Gibraltar Releases Iranian Tanker Over US Objections 1929022;1565951212;mp_en_viaje;get ready for a lot more "over usg objections" once Trilema [http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/][opened] the [http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-bitcoin-regulation/?b=and%20it%20won&e=sensibilities#select][floodgates] 1929023;1565951393;mp_en_viaje;("oh but mp, it wasn't TRILEMA that opened the floodgates ; they just opened coincidentally". "really bitch ? and back in 2014, when you were supposed to show me your tits, your optionality was pushing you to nonsense arguments like "[http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/?b=You&e=here#select][bitcoin is doomed]" and "[http://trilema.com/2012/the-stockexchange-shareholders-on-welfare/?b=Wait%20until&e=TERRORISM#select][mp is in imminent 1929024;1565951393;mp_en_viaje;dangerz]" ? da fuck happened, treason never prospers because if it prosper we'll just call it coincidence ? 1929025;1565951395;mp_en_viaje;schmucks. 1929026;1565951773;mp_en_viaje;pretty fucking epic qntra thursday, wtf! nice BingoBoingo ! 1929027;1565951823;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928947 << they're weev-like/yarvin-like femstate cucks, not there for any other purpose than to explain how great the Inca actually is. 1929028;1565951823;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 15:00:45 BingoBoingo: It amazes me how many "Anti-socialist" alt-alt rags are pointedly NOT highlighting Black American Patriot Maurice Hill as a warrior against the state 1929029;1565951875;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928966 << bwahahaha. 1929030;1565951876;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 20:31:27 asciilifeform: meanwhile, update re unitardation -- [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928526][phf's pill] doesn't cure -- decoder successfully falls back to 'latin-1', if set up as described, and dun barf ; but ~encoder~ barfs in pg ( cur.execute(query, args) ) 1929031;1565951903;mp_en_viaje;python is entertainy language. 1929032;1565951975;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928978 << oh, and specifically mandate utf ? hm. 1929033;1565951975;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 21:19:29 asciilifeform: why the fuck is this even a good idea ? to support [http://trilema.com/2016/unicode-is-fucking-stupid-the-definitive-article/?b=Because&e=sir#select][arbitrary liquishit in logs ?] imho the Right Thing would be 'if you want yer logs imported or echoed, put'em into utf8 or stuff up arse' . 1929034;1565952060;mp_en_viaje;anyway, supposedly i should be able to reproduce this, lessee. ×÷√ 1929035;1565952125;mp_en_viaje;Œ 1929036;1565952152;mp_en_viaje;Ž 1929037;1565952172;mp_en_viaje;and of course everyone's favourite from the old days, ¤ 1929038;1565952182;mp_en_viaje;aka 00a4 1929039;1565952203;mp_en_viaje;oh and let's not forget wordstar ¶ 1929040;1565952304;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile ¶ ¤ Ž and Œ 1929041;1565952397;mp_en_viaje;the breakage more extensive than asciilifeform diagnosed. 1929042;1565952521;mp_en_viaje;consider for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%92 respectively. %C5%BD urldecodes to Ž and %C5%92 urldecides to Å ; meanwhile the indicated wiki pages actually described the items originally inserted, the czech letter ( Latin Z with the addition of caron) and the latin letter (o e ligated). 1929043;1565952590;mp_en_viaje;i originally thought one actually needs http://www.cp1252.com/ to illustrate the breakage (whence i copied the original lines missing from log above), however this is not actually so. 1929044;1565952721;mp_en_viaje;let's do some selected testing then. 1929045;1565952722;mp_en_viaje;U+00B5 µ 0181 µ Micro sign 1929046;1565952734;mp_en_viaje;U+00D8 Ø 0216 Ø Latin Capital letter O with stroke 1929047;1565952753;mp_en_viaje;U+0126 Ħ 294 Ħ Latin Capital Letter H with stroke 1929048;1565952765;mp_en_viaje;U+0193 1929049;1565952765;mp_en_viaje;Ɠ 1929050;1565952765;mp_en_viaje; 403 Latin Capital Letter G with hook 1929051;1565952781;mp_en_viaje;keks even my term chokes on that shit. 1929052;1565952785;mp_en_viaje;U+0193 Ɠ 403 Latin Capital Letter G with hook 1929053;1565952799;mp_en_viaje;U+01DA 1929054;1565952799;mp_en_viaje;ǚ 1929055;1565952799;mp_en_viaje; 474 Latin Small Letter U with diaeresis and caron 1929056;1565952810;mp_en_viaje;U+01DA ǚ 474 Latin Small Letter U with diaeresis and caron 1929057;1565952826;mp_en_viaje;U+0211 ȑ 529 Latin Small Letter R with double grave 1929058;1565952841;mp_en_viaje;U+0236 ȶ 566 Latin Small Letter T with curl 1929059;1565952864;mp_en_viaje;U+03D6 ϖ 982 Greek Pi Symbol 1929060;1565952892;mp_en_viaje;U+0426 Ц Cyrillic Capital Letter Tse 1929061;1565952907;mp_en_viaje;U+0469 ѩ Cyrillic Small Letter Iotified Little Yus 1929062;1565952927;mp_en_viaje;U+049C Ҝ Cyrillic Capital Letter Ka with vertical stroke 1929063;1565952986;mp_en_viaje;𖩗 𖩝 𖩀 1929064;1565953033;mp_en_viaje;Უ Ჵ Მ ⴃ ⴕ ⴥ ⴧ ⴭ 1929065;1565953059;mp_en_viaje;ꮄ ꮅ ꮆ ꮇ 1929066;1565953073;mp_en_viaje;U+2021 ‡ Double dagger 1929067;1565953085;mp_en_viaje;‱ basis point 1929068;1565953111;mp_en_viaje;₠ ₩ ₪ 1929069;1565953191;mp_en_viaje;ℕ ℤ ℚ ℝ hey wtf stylization is this, R for reals is a double bar-r not a double-r-superimposed! and rationals is Q with a single bar left, not two bars left and right. WTF! 1929070;1565953204;mp_en_viaje;ↀ ↁ ↂ 1929071;1565953233;mp_en_viaje;⇶ ⇲ ↛ ↜ ↱ 1929072;1565953276;mp_en_viaje;∰ ⊠ ⊡ ≬ ∞ 1929073;1565953298;mp_en_viaje;⎲ ⎳ << check it out, they have large sum! 1929074;1565953319;mp_en_viaje;⏄ ⏅ 1929075;1565953357;mp_en_viaje;Ⓐ Ⓑ Ⓒ Ⓓ Ⓔ Ⓕ Ⓖ Ⓗ Ⓘ Ⓙ Ⓚ Ⓛ Ⓜ Ⓝ Ⓞ Ⓟ Ⓠ Ⓡ Ⓢ Ⓣ Ⓤ Ⓥ Ⓦ Ⓧ Ⓨ Ⓩ 1929076;1565953383;mp_en_viaje;╣ ┋ ┟ 1929077;1565953402;mp_en_viaje;░ ▲ ▷ 1929078;1565953454;mp_en_viaje;♚ ♛ ♜ ♝ ♞ ♟ ♠ ♣ ♥ ♦ ♨ 1929079;1565953482;mp_en_viaje;ff fi fl ffi ffl ſt st 1929080;1565953544;mp_en_viaje;𔐢 𔐣 𔐤 1929081;1565953559;mp_en_viaje;𐅆 𐅇 𐅈 𐅉 1929082;1565953569;mp_en_viaje;𐏈 𐏉 𐏊 𐏋 1929083;1565953590;mp_en_viaje;𐙳 𐛉 𐘍 𐛀 1929084;1565953625;mp_en_viaje;⠵ ⢶ ⣻ ⣼ 1929085;1565953719;mp_en_viaje; 𝄟 𝄠 𝄡 𝄢 𝄣 𝄤 1929086;1565953756;mp_en_viaje;𝀶 𝁵 𝀽 𝂸 1929087;1565953775;mp_en_viaje;𝈕 𝈴 𝈏 1929088;1565953786;mp_en_viaje;𛱄 𛱅 𛱆 1929089;1565953836;mp_en_viaje;🜷 alkali ; 🝤 putrefaction ; 🜀 aether ; 🜰 regular antimony and so following 1929090;1565953848;mp_en_viaje;␢ ␣ ␤ ␥ 1929091;1565953942;mp_en_viaje; � 1929092;1565954016;mp_en_viaje;this then completes our foray into the unpleasant. 1929093;1565954029;mp_en_viaje;incidentally, we also have something asciilifeform will love to hear about : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Use_Areas aka "by deliberate design, unicode can never be correctly displayed" 1929094;1565954162;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-16#1929044 to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-16#1929092 ie 48 lines vs http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929021 to http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929066 aka 45 lines. the actual linecount as issued is 48. 1929095;1565954162;a111;Logged on 2019-08-16 10:52 mp_en_viaje: let's do some selected testing then. 1929096;1565954162;a111;Logged on 2019-08-16 11:13 mp_en_viaje: this then completes our foray into the unpleasant. 1929097;1565954162;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 07:33:56 mp_en_viaje: let's do some selected testing then. 1929098;1565954162;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 07:55:31 mp_en_viaje: this then completes our foray into the unpleasant. 1929099;1565954299;mp_en_viaje;the only possible conclusion is that unicode support is actually broken on either the flask, the python outright, or some other library asciilifeform is using there. it's true that it was coincidentally discovered by cp1252 translation failure, but it is not limited to that. things missing from nsa log like the micron above are plain unicode and correctly quoted as such by my terminal. 1929100;1565954324;mp_en_viaje;note that both loggers miss some glyphs, rendering them as eg 01f737 in a box. this is different behaviour from simply dropping the line. 1929101;1565954394;mp_en_viaje;now that we're talking about this, i recall a similar (if more restrained) experiment with phf, maybe cca late 2017, and he went away and came back with a properly wroking logger a week or so later -- though i dunno that he ever wrote a blog article [http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/][detailing] the problem and its solution 1929102;1565954875;mp_en_viaje;for reference, i've also echoed the 48 lines through lynx-php-mysql ; they're visible php-yourbrowser at http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130940 ; it croaks (as expected) on the first codepoint with no associated glyph (ln20). 1929103;1565955125;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928975 << well ok, but you could also just you know, run the unicode table through the system and see where the problems are and why, ie exactly what i've done above. not like it was some kind of high arcana or anything, neh, when confronted with unexpected behaviour run the whole class through see what hapens, rather than "try to divine a culprit" or "who do your [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ 1929104;1565955125;mp_en_viaje;trilema/2019-08-10#1927160][feelings] indicate was the rapist" or any such nonsense, neh ? 1929105;1565955126;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 21:12:20 asciilifeform: burned entire evening on this, and is no closer to a ~lead~ to a solution (not even speaking of actual solution) than before. 1929106;1565955148;mp_en_viaje; or "who do your [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927160][feelings] indicate was the rapist" or any such nonsense, neh ? 1929107;1565955149;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:08:52 mircea_popescu: meanwhikle at cuntcamps, [https://www.scarleteen.com/article/abuse_assault_relationships_etc/the_quiet_voice_how_i_stopped_listening_to_emotional_abuse][gut feelings are your guardian angel] 1929108;1565955253;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928982 << there's nothing in principle wrong with this solution. there may be some practical concerns (ie, might want to get a working unicode set first) ; but other than that i don't see the advantage to having numbers-in-a-rectangle, for instance, in preference of a fixed turd. 1929109;1565955253;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 21:27:38 asciilifeform: unless someone supplies, in next coupla days, a simple AND WORKING pill, i'ma do this : anything coming into the bot that dun decode cleanly as utf8, will have the offending chars (i.e. any with 8th bit set) replaced with that glyph that depicts a steaming pile of shit. 1929110;1565955440;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928989 << i dun think there's any merit to getting unicode ~search~ going ; the specification of search in #[http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130489][13] implicitly exclues them. plainascii search is good enough. 1929111;1565955440;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 22:21:36 asciilifeform: btw just as i thought, lobbes's searchtron [http://logs.minigame.biz/search/?q=%C3%88%C3%8C%C3%98%C2%B1%C3%92%C3%93%C3%8E%C3%8F][fails] if fed the liquishit in question. 1929112;1565955581;mp_en_viaje;of course, in continuing [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-09#1926726][infuriation], http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%F0%9F%9C%B0 also works just fine. 1929113;1565955581;a111;Logged on 2019-08-09 08:39 mircea_popescu: what can you do, alf just not as good at computing as phf :D 1929114;1565955637;*;mp_en_viaje shall now be off attending to household dramaz, will bbl tho. 1929115;1565959875;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: worx same in mine, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%F0%9F%9C%B0&chan=trilema 1929116;1565959901;asciilifeform;uniturd search worked from day 1 ( of items that actually made it into the db, that is ) 1929117;1565959921;asciilifeform;nao will have to see wtf it was that mp_en_viaje found (3 'magick' turds ? ) 1929118;1565960108;*;asciilifeform digging through barfology log on dulap, will brb 1929119;1565960234;asciilifeform;i see 9 duds actually 1929120;1565960253;asciilifeform;( today strictly ) 1929121;1565960358;asciilifeform;however, the bot that is here , does ~not~ have the phf pill, that one is in #asciilifeform-test 1929122;1565960360;asciilifeform;!quptime 1929123;1565960360;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 6d 11h 48m 1929124;1565960384;asciilifeform;^ this one is the last-vpatch ver 1929125;1565960691;asciilifeform;grrr apparently can't reproduce by pasting from phf's log, cuz -- surprise!111 -- it all turns into valid utf8 when displayed there 1929126;1565960715;asciilifeform;pasting from the wikitardia dun seem to do the trick either 1929127;1565960737;asciilifeform;(i.e. #asciilifeform-test bot happily eats 100% of the examples ) 1929128;1565960825;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje when you wake up, plz describe how you actually got the barfola into yer irc client, so can reproduce. 1929129;1565961049;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929071 << the interesting bit is that i got 0 barf when importing phf's log (i.e. including all of the historic uniturds seen in log in 'era 2') 1929130;1565961049;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 08:00:13 mp_en_viaje: the only possible conclusion is that unicode support is actually broken on either the flask, the python outright, or some other library asciilifeform is using there. it's true that it was coincidentally discovered by cp1252 translation failure, but it is not limited to that. things missing from nsa log like the micron above are plain unicode and correctly quoted as such by my terminal. 1929131;1565961149;phf;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929099 << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546409 and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-21#1546413 1929132;1565961149;a111;Logged on 2016-09-21 14:44 phf: but not necessarily your special encoding. so client will guess the encoding of the line you're sending, and if it can be encoded as latin-1 it'll send it as such, otherwise utf-8 1929133;1565961149;a111;Logged on 2016-09-21 14:45 phf: mircea_popescu's xchat specifically still does that. so his latin-1 encodable text comes out as such, otherwise it gets promoted to utf-8 1929134;1565961150;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 09:49:00 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje when you wake up, plz describe how you actually got the barfola into yer irc client, so can reproduce. 1929135;1565961178;asciilifeform;ohai phf 1929136;1565961254;phf;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929100 << particular utf-8 otherwise latin-1 trick also exists in cl-irc for example (i believe the python irc logger i looked at long time ago also had it), so log messages that a111 gets are already converted in this way. 1929137;1565961254;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 09:52:44 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929071 << the interesting bit is that i got 0 barf when importing phf's log (i.e. including all of the historic uniturds seen in log in 'era 2') 1929138;1565961304;asciilifeform;phf: the issue seems to be [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928966][postgres] , i.e. mine is set to utf8 , so anything that is to sit down in it gotta validly re-encode to utf8 1929139;1565961305;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 20:31:27 asciilifeform: meanwhile, update re unitardation -- [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928526][phf's pill] doesn't cure -- decoder successfully falls back to 'latin-1', if set up as described, and dun barf ; but ~encoder~ barfs in pg ( cur.execute(query, args) ) 1929140;1565961384;phf;asciilifeform: that is something else wrong with your code, i've tested with some local python and it works as expected 1929141;1565961399;asciilifeform;phf: post plz how tested and which py. 1929142;1565961407;asciilifeform;and which postgres. 1929143;1565961430;asciilifeform;(cuz it's specifically a postgres query boojum) 1929144;1565961494;asciilifeform;the phf-style [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928974][variant] is currently sitting in #asciilifeform-test , btw, and can be diddled , put turd there and try to search for it, if it's in the test bot's log, search will return correct res 1929145;1565961495;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 20:52:35 asciilifeform: [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FnuUa/?raw=true][current variant (w/ phf's non-curative decode-fallback)]. 1929146;1565961511;phf;well, correct hence "something else wrong", i've only verified what i already knew, that latin-1 decoded to "unicode" is otherwise indistinguishable from any other unicode, and can then be encoded to utf-8 1929147;1565961525;phf;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/n5CQ3/?raw=true 1929148;1565961607;asciilifeform;phf: this -- worx . this is not the problem. problem happens when the re-encoded string is fed to postgres. 1929149;1565961640;asciilifeform;[http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wGNRM/?raw=true][representative example barfology from test using lobbes's turd last night in #asciilifeform-test] 1929150;1565961683;asciilifeform;the latin-1 fallbacks, per phf's algo, re-encode happily, python per se dun barf. postgres barfs when fed the result. 1929151;1565961770;phf;what does SHOW SERVER_ENCODING return for your pg? 1929152;1565961823;asciilifeform;UTF8 . 1929153;1565961833;asciilifeform;as i set it, lol 1929154;1565962181;phf;asciilifeform: you have a bug in your code, data.strip(b'\r\n').decode('latin-1') is not assigned to data, so ultimately payload is still a latin-1 bytestring 1929155;1565962201;*;asciilifeform loox again 1929156;1565962232;asciilifeform;oh hm, it is , innit 1929157;1565962269;*;asciilifeform fixed, restarts #asciilifeform-test bot... 1929158;1565962300;asciilifeform;for some reason thought .strip an' .decode were destructive ops, when wrote this 1929159;1565962312;asciilifeform;test bot -- reset, running. 1929160;1565962472;asciilifeform;phf: ty; appears to be the reason for the barf seen vs. lobbes's collection of barfolade. nao need to reproduce mp_en_viaje's 1929161;1565962561;*;asciilifeform would like to add hexdump logging on all eggog, before resetting the main bot 1929162;1565962839;asciilifeform;on 2nd thought, i'ma do the swap nao, ~erryone seems to be asleep 1929163;1565962902;asciilifeform;3... 2... 1... 1929164;1565962958;asciilifeform;phf-type (corrected) bot is live. 1929165;1565963006;*;asciilifeform unplugs the one in #asciilifeform-test , is redundant nao 1929166;1565963037;asciilifeform;let's live-fire lobbes's example: 1929167;1565963038;asciilifeform;http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-26.log.html#t20:04:33 1929168;1565963051;asciilifeform;lol lobbes's bot dead ? 1929169;1565963068;asciilifeform;for some reason i thought he had multichan support, but apparently moved it wholesale to #a-test , lol 1929170;1565963083;asciilifeform;lobbes plox to move your bot here, where it belongs, lol 1929171;1565963186;phf; 1929172;1565963189;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje when you wake up, plox to reissue the barfologies if you still have'em handy. whole episode may easily be 'coarse error of pilotage' of asciilifeform 1929173;1565963206;asciilifeform;phf: i see blank line in both client and log 1929174;1565963214;asciilifeform;incl. your log 1929175;1565963230;phf;°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ 1929176;1565963252;asciilifeform;!qs °±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ 1929177;1565963254;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%C2%B0%C2%B1%C2%B2%C2%B3%C2%B4%C2%B5%C2%B6%C2%B7%C2%B8%C2%B9%C2%BA%C2%BB%C2%BC%C2%BD%C2%BE%C2%BF&chan=trilema][2 results for "°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿" in #trilema] 1929178;1565963261;asciilifeform;^ eaten, clearly 1929179;1565963297;phf;fyi erc supports custom channel encodings 1929180;1565963344;asciilifeform;for all i know even supports http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928981 . 1929181;1565963345;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 21:23:52 asciilifeform: 'I mean literally, the guy's from Washitistan, they write things with their own excrement there, and the Unicode Foundation introduced actual excrement in the standard so now whenever someone asks for the networking code in your project they are delivered physical faeces on cardboard. About fifty eight acres of it. Where would you like this put, sir ?' (tm)(r)(mp) 1929182;1565963479;asciilifeform;ty for reading the paste of bot, phf ; evidently not 1 other soul read! 1929183;1565963560;*;asciilifeform now, finally, goes to tea. brb. 1929184;1565963726;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, aite, incoming! 1929185;1565963973;mp_en_viaje;U+00B5 µ 0181 µ Micro sign 1929186;1565963973;mp_en_viaje;U+00D8 Ø 0216 Ø Latin Capital letter O with stroke 1929187;1565963973;mp_en_viaje;U+0126 Ħ 294 Ħ Latin Capital Letter H with stroke 1929188;1565963973;mp_en_viaje;U+0193 1929189;1565963973;mp_en_viaje;Ɠ 1929190;1565963973;mp_en_viaje; 403 Latin Capital Letter G with hook 1929191;1565963975;mp_en_viaje;keks even my term chokes on that shit. 1929192;1565963977;mp_en_viaje;U+0193 Ɠ 403 Latin Capital Letter G with hook 1929193;1565963979;mp_en_viaje;U+01DA 1929194;1565963981;mp_en_viaje;ǚ 1929195;1565963985;mp_en_viaje; 474 Latin Small Letter U with diaeresis and caron 1929196;1565963987;mp_en_viaje;U+01DA ǚ 474 Latin Small Letter U with diaeresis and caron 1929197;1565963989;mp_en_viaje;U+0211 ȑ 529 Latin Small Letter R with double grave 1929198;1565963991;mp_en_viaje;U+0236 ȶ 566 Latin Small Letter T with curl 1929199;1565963993;mp_en_viaje;U+03D6 ϖ 982 Greek Pi Symbol 1929200;1565963995;mp_en_viaje;U+0426 Ц Cyrillic Capital Letter Tse 1929201;1565963997;mp_en_viaje;U+0469 ѩ Cyrillic Small Letter Iotified Little Yus 1929202;1565963999;mp_en_viaje;U+049C Ҝ Cyrillic Capital Letter Ka with vertical stroke 1929203;1565964001;mp_en_viaje;𖩗 𖩝 𖩀 1929204;1565964003;mp_en_viaje;Უ Ჵ Მ ⴃ ⴕ ⴥ ⴧ ⴭ 1929205;1565964005;mp_en_viaje;ꮄ ꮅ ꮆ ꮇ 1929206;1565964007;mp_en_viaje;U+2021 ‡ Double dagger 1929207;1565964009;mp_en_viaje;‱ basis point 1929208;1565964011;mp_en_viaje;₠ ₩ ₪ 1929209;1565964015;mp_en_viaje;ℕ ℤ ℚ ℝ hey wtf stylization is this, R for reals is a double bar-r not a double-r-superimposed! and rationals is Q with a single bar left, not two bars left and right. WTF! 1929210;1565964018;mp_en_viaje;ↀ ↁ ↂ 1929211;1565964020;mp_en_viaje;⇶ ⇲ ↛ ↜ ↱ 1929212;1565964022;mp_en_viaje;∰ ⊠ ⊡ ≬ ∞ 1929213;1565964024;mp_en_viaje;⎲ ⎳ << check it out, they have large sum! 1929214;1565964026;mp_en_viaje;⏄ ⏅ 1929215;1565964028;mp_en_viaje;Ⓐ Ⓑ Ⓒ Ⓓ Ⓔ Ⓕ Ⓖ Ⓗ Ⓘ Ⓙ Ⓚ Ⓛ Ⓜ Ⓝ Ⓞ Ⓟ Ⓠ Ⓡ Ⓢ Ⓣ Ⓤ Ⓥ Ⓦ Ⓧ Ⓨ Ⓩ 1929216;1565964031;mp_en_viaje;╣ ┋ ┟ 1929217;1565964033;mp_en_viaje;░ ▲ ▷ 1929218;1565964035;mp_en_viaje;♚ ♛ ♜ ♝ ♞ ♟ ♠ ♣ ♥ ♦ ♨ 1929219;1565964037;mp_en_viaje;ff fi fl ffi ffl ſt st 1929220;1565964039;mp_en_viaje;𔐢 𔐣 𔐤 1929221;1565964041;mp_en_viaje;𐅆 𐅇 𐅈 𐅉 1929222;1565964045;mp_en_viaje;𐏈 𐏉 𐏊 𐏋 1929223;1565964048;mp_en_viaje;𐙳 𐛉 𐘍 𐛀 1929224;1565964049;mp_en_viaje;⠵ ⢶ ⣻ ⣼ 1929225;1565964051;mp_en_viaje; 𝄟 𝄠 𝄡 𝄢 𝄣 𝄤 1929226;1565964053;mp_en_viaje;𝀶 𝁵 𝀽 𝂸 1929227;1565964055;mp_en_viaje;𝈕 𝈴 𝈏 1929228;1565964057;mp_en_viaje;𛱄 𛱅 𛱆 1929229;1565964059;mp_en_viaje;🜷 alkali ; 🝤 putrefaction ; 🜀 aether ; 🜰 regular antimony and so following 1929230;1565964061;mp_en_viaje;␢ ␣ ␤ ␥ 1929231;1565964063;mp_en_viaje; � 1929232;1565964150;mp_en_viaje;much better. 1929233;1565966497;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 0 eggog on dulap-side log. 1929234;1565966938;asciilifeform;http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-26.log.html#t20:04:33 1929235;1565966939;lobbesbot;Logged on 2015-08-26 20:04:33: "Or in my case, re-write a cooking book. So ladies and gentlorans, I give you Foxy’s Euloran Cookbook V1.1," 1929236;1565966950;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929204 << also eaten. 1929237;1565966950;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 11:30:55 lobbesbot: Logged on 2015-08-26 20:04:33: "Or in my case, re-write a cooking book. So ladies and gentlorans, I give you Foxy’s Euloran Cookbook V1.1," 1929238;1565966989;asciilifeform;!qs ⊠ ⊡ 1929239;1565966990;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%E2%8A%A0%20%E2%8A%A1&chan=trilema][3 results for "⊠ ⊡" in #trilema] 1929240;1565967040;asciilifeform;!qs ♠ ♣ ♥ ♦ 1929241;1565967041;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%E2%99%A0%20%E2%99%A3%20%E2%99%A5%20%E2%99%A6&chan=trilema][3 results for "♠ ♣ ♥ ♦" in #trilema] 1929242;1565967080;asciilifeform;!qs ♥ ♠ ♦ ♣ 1929243;1565967081;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%E2%99%A5%20%E2%99%A0%20%E2%99%A6%20%E2%99%A3&chan=trilema][5 results for "♥ ♠ ♦ ♣" in #trilema] 1929244;1565967115;asciilifeform;!qs Ⓐ Ⓩ 1929245;1565967116;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%E2%92%B6%20%E2%93%8F&chan=trilema][3 results for "Ⓐ Ⓩ" in #trilema] 1929246;1565967158;asciilifeform;i'ma leave off with these, cuz erryone prolly already tossed their lunch ; but who has idea re others, welcome to throw in. 1929247;1565967202;asciilifeform;will issue vpatch later tonight/tomorrow 1929248;1565967265;asciilifeform;ty phf , mp_en_viaje, lobbes . 1929249;1565969986;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929178 << these btw are mutilated, as per mp's description, on erry terminal i have. evidently bakers of uniturd standard never bothered to open a maffs schoolbook... 1929250;1565969987;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 10:42:11 mp_en_viaje: ℕ ℤ ℚ ℝ hey wtf stylization is this, R for reals is a double bar-r not a double-r-superimposed! and rationals is Q with a single bar left, not two bars left and right. WTF! 1929251;1565970032;asciilifeform;or i suppose possible that these are in fact microshit 'wingdings', and the genuine q/r/etc are elsewhere in that talmud 1929252;1565970123;asciilifeform;♞ << funnily enuff has ~ears~ on my terminals. as in no chess b00k afaik ever. 1929253;1565970177;asciilifeform;♨ << loox like 'java log' ?!! (what's it doing in unicoad? is there 'coca cola' logo also?! and if not -- wainot?? ) 1929254;1565970182;asciilifeform;*logo 1929255;1565970261;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929170 << abolished by peter I . what's ~it~ doing in unicode ? and if ~this~ is there, wainot also egyptian hiroglyphs ? 1929256;1565970261;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 10:41:53 mp_en_viaje: U+0469 ѩ Cyrillic Small Letter Iotified Little Yus 1929257;1565973028;phf;^ https://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U13000.pdf 1929258;1565973825;asciilifeform;oh ffs! 1929259;1565974151;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/09b-hunchentoot-v.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: taskmaster code review 1929260;1565974887;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928785 <-- ftr, just to make sure this isn't lost: this is the next item on my list after thetarpit commentz and hunchentoot genesis. 1929261;1565974887;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 13:52:44 mp_en_viaje: i expect large portions of lobbesbot actually salvageable ; spyked was making a lisp one too iirc. 1929262;1565984116;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/nyc-subway-station-temporarily-shuttered-over-presence-of-pressure-cookers/ << Qntra -- NYC Subway Station Temporarily Shuttered Over Presence Of Pressure Cookers 1929263;1565984375;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929009 << tyvm, seems like the epic week of keks has slowed down substantially today. Unless rumors and inuendos the Pantsuits want to talk about concerning how Trump may or may not be trying to negotiate a Greenland purchase count. 1929264;1565984376;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 07:18:07 mp_en_viaje: pretty fucking epic qntra thursday, wtf! nice BingoBoingo ! 1929265;1565984727;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol!! i thought crapple was to 'buy russia' 1929266;1565984732;asciilifeform;wai now the bargain bin. 1929267;1565985217;BingoBoingo;Apparently Minnesota doesn't have enough room to resettle all of the warm climate "refugees" into proper cold climates? 1929268;1565985266;asciilifeform;alaska not bigenuff to meet projected gula^H^H^H^Hresettlement capacity ? 1929269;1565985322;BingoBoingo;Prolly not 1929270;1565985385;BingoBoingo;Could also migrate from Alaska to Canada. More easily than Greenland to anywhere else. Gotta keep the inmates in. 1929271;1565988081;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/usta-swingers-club-ul-jozefa-strusia-5-in-warsaw-poland-and-other-things/ << Trilema -- Usta Swingers Club (ul. Jzefa Strusia 5), in Warsaw, Poland ; and other things. 1929272;1565989228;auctionbot;Buy order # 1052 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo 1929273;1565989230;auctionbot;Buy order # 1053 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo 1929274;1565997148;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/impotent-usg-unseals-warrant-for-liberated-iranian-tanker/ << Qntra -- Impotent USG Unseals "Warrant" For Liberated Iranian Tanker 1929275;1565998048;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, panzers! [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][logotron vtree updated] ; includes all currently-deployed changes . 1929276;1565999695;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 283mn 26 2835 WFF, Wire Only 1929277;1565999696;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 51mn 26 500 WFF, WU esta bien 1929278;1565999696;auctionbot;Buy order # 1054 created by BingoBoingo: 2835 WFF, Wire Only Opening: 283mn ecu Ending: 2019-08-17 14:05:28.848350 UTC (25 hours) 1929279;1565999696;auctionbot;Buy order # 1055 created by BingoBoingo: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Opening: 51mn ecu Ending: 2019-08-17 14:05:29.126412 UTC (25 hours) 1929280;1566000627;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-11#1927317 << am looking into it this evening. there's a known issue with moving keys from A to B that I'm going to resolve 1929281;1566000627;a111;Logged on 2019-08-11 17:45 BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell trinque http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-11#1000032 << Fellow from earlier indeed appears to have his private key. When you get a chance to, please swing by #pizarro to see if you can help him debug his issue decrypting deedbot strings to !!v. 1929282;1566000627;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 1 week, 0 days, 11 hours, and 30 minutes ago: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-09#1000025 1929283;1566000628;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 00:44:50 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: I can't decrypt the invoice - it is encrypted to a key I don't have. 1929284;1566000629;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 5 days, 6 hours, and 25 minutes ago: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-11#1000032 << Fellow from earlier indeed appears to have his private key. When you get a chance to, please swing by #pizarro to see if you can help him debug his issue decrypting deedbot strings to !!v. 1929285;1566000630;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 13:09:14 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: here is a re-encrypted copy of the encrypted message you sent me earlier as evidence I have the private key: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Kkmtg/?raw=true 1929286;1566000657;trinque;hm lemme switch links from now on then. 1929287;1566000741;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927501 << lol wtf excuse is this 1929288;1566000741;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 16:46:59 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: you actually improved my archive process with just such a bash one-liner. I still use it to this day to get around the 'cloudflare' crapola. But you know, 10 years spent in a pot-induced fog tends to make one miss the obvious. I'm working with a new brain these days 1929289;1566000773;trinque;the fog was induced by you being on your ass if anything; never blame a substance 1929290;1566000900;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927727 << precisely right. what wedges, from my investigation here and elsewhere, is the seam between cl+ssl and openssl. 1929291;1566000900;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 22:34:33 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927722 << i have a suspicion that trinque set it to cycle at 0hrs (in frustration re socket wedge ?) 1929292;1566000974;trinque;if we are content with that deedbot may come back under a different name (as if freenode is the canonical repository of anything) I'll remove the SSL cruft. 1929293;1566001578;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929257 << I cannot argue with this. In any case, I no longer intend to be on said ass 1929294;1566001578;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 20:54:50 trinque: the fog was induced by you being on your ass if anything; never blame a substance 1929295;1566001593;trinque;cool, I'm gonna spark a doob and work on deedbot 1929296;1566001599;lobbes;haha enjoy 1929297;1566001732;lobbes;the moral, I guess, is 'pretense kills'. 1929298;1566001818;*;trinque shrugs 1929299;1566001883;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926770 << hit by car? something else? 1929300;1566001884;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 08:33:52 phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926224 << perhaps quarter dead, but days go to going to hospital for daily wounds dressing, sleeping a lot and going for walks, i have another sugery on monday to close me up. 1929301;1566001921;BingoBoingo;trinque: ty and welcome back 1929302;1566001932;trinque;hola BingoBoingo! 1929303;1566002103;lobbes;!Xbid 1055 51mn 1929304;1566002104;auctionbot;Buy order # 1055: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 51mn from lobbes. Ending: 2019-08-17 14:05:29.126412 UTC (25 hours 19 mins) 1929305;1566002205;trinque;BingoBoingo: open at all to copy improvements on the pizarroisp.net site? 1929306;1566002228;trinque;"Pizarro servers do not employ BMC, nor always-on KVM setups." << y'all say nothing about why someone should care 1929307;1566002260;trinque;"Getting machines to the DC is a bit of a hike, and you're welcome to ship out with one of our supply runs to the "space station". 1929308;1566002279;trinque;^ you precede it with telling someone how much it sucks to try to house a box 1929309;1566002349;BingoBoingo;trinque: ty, copy's due for another cleaning indeed 1929310;1566002402;BingoBoingo;I'll have to take a break from reading news from the other side of the river for the laffs. 1929311;1566002474;BingoBoingo;Latest is that what was a disaster appears to have been normalized in argentine dialog while Fitch just downgraded then from B to CCC 1929312;1566002518;trinque;running any ads anywhere for the site? 1929313;1566002603;BingoBoingo;Not at the moment. 1929314;1566002918;asciilifeform;trinque: apropos -- i took the liberty to put piz banner on http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/ ( btw open to improvements, if someone knows how to draw... ) 1929315;1566002936;asciilifeform;it's been there since 1st day of new logtron 1929316;1566002988;asciilifeform;btw wb trinque 1929317;1566003040;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: trinque has a point ; turn the 'BMC' into link to 1 of the pertinent qntras plox 1929318;1566003062;trinque;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wRpPY/?raw=true << here's teh kind of thing I'd do 1929319;1566003078;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and perhaps also , the 'Account management is done through RSA process' oughta point to mp's 'social engineering' article 1929320;1566003101;asciilifeform;trinque's sample is a+++ imho. oughta go in. 1929321;1566003139;trinque;page needs more of that, and less in-group signaling imho 1929322;1566003153;trinque;http://www.tarsnap.com/ << excellent example 1929323;1566003216;trinque;also hola asciilifeform, good to come up for air. 1929324;1566003234;asciilifeform;tarsnap's www indeed pretty good . i remember it from a 2015 thread. 1929325;1566003263;asciilifeform;trinque: whatcha working on these days ? 1929326;1566003305;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929258 << hrm i cannot resist to ask : what's ssl doing in there ? 1929327;1566003306;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 20:56:57 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927727 << precisely right. what wedges, from my investigation here and elsewhere, is the seam between cl+ssl and openssl. 1929328;1566003308;trinque;eh just a webshit that takes up a bunch of time. 1929329;1566003386;trinque;asciilifeform: sure, but that seam runs all the way down to "what's freenode doing in there" 1929330;1566003398;asciilifeform;rright but e.g. my bot is sslism-free 1929331;1566003415;asciilifeform;( can be sat behind znc, in principle, if for some reason really want. but i haven't ) 1929332;1566003441;trinque;yep, just freenode auth blasts a password over the wire 1929333;1566003447;asciilifeform;indeed does 1929334;1566003457;trinque;ftr my statement above is "fuggit" 1929335;1566003470;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926314][see also] 1929336;1566003470;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 16:30:57 asciilifeform: for instance right nao anyone leasing a box on piz, can hear the pw 1929337;1566003499;trinque;yep, so when I migrate, noob can hijack deedbot 1929338;1566003525;asciilifeform;so sit it under znc. why suffer with sslism in own proggy. 1929339;1566003574;trinque;mnah, if I'm doing anything at all with "IRC" in the mix, I'm doing as little as possible 1929340;1566003589;asciilifeform;( tho tbf iirc trinque's bot, assuming it is close to the genesis'd item, would require a little doctoring to run under znc ) 1929341;1566003596;trinque;seriously considering opening a www channel into the bot 1929342;1566003643;asciilifeform;trinque: 'as little as can' was my design principle, is how wrote ~400ln bot (and almost correctly -- did require phf's uniturd fix) 1929343;1566003657;trinque;yep, logs look nice 1929344;1566003700;asciilifeform;actually some of the old pages look not-nice, currently chasing a rendering barf where lines overflow in certain 2015-16 pages 1929345;1566003705;asciilifeform;(why -- do not know yet) 1929346;1566003728;asciilifeform;[http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-14#1928326][see also] 1929347;1566003728;a111;Logged on 2019-08-14 01:48 asciilifeform: in other minor noose, 'random' button already paid for self, found [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-07-09][page where for some yet-unknown reason line wrap fails] 1929348;1566003756;asciilifeform;hrm lol lemme repaste from own log, 1929349;1566003766;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-13#1928339 1929350;1566003767;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-13 22:48:05 asciilifeform: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-12-30][another page that breaks, apparently, wrapping] 1929351;1566003808;*;asciilifeform has been digging through phf's output to see how he wrapped, initially i copied his stylesheet but had to break it to get 'checkerboard' 1929352;1566003861;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929309 << what means 'www channel into bot' ? 1929353;1566003862;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:54 trinque: seriously considering opening a www channel into the bot 1929354;1566003873;trinque;it's the phuctoring lines, standby for css hax 1929355;1566003903;asciilifeform;oh hah, css wrappage doesn't know how to break words, does it. 1929356;1566003922;trinque;can with one of the multitudinous flags 1929357;1566004026;*;asciilifeform invites trinque to vpatch ; the posted tree is 100% current and patchable on 1929358;1566004156;trinque;remove the .loglines { float:left; clear:left; } and add .loglines { word-wrap: break-word; } 1929359;1566004168;*;asciilifeform goes to try 1929360;1566004374;asciilifeform;appears to work. ty trinque ! 1929361;1566004405;trinque;great, np 1929362;1566004478;asciilifeform;deployed to dulap. 1929363;1566004483;asciilifeform;and will be in next patch. 1929364;1566004954;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, panzers! [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][logotron tree updated yet again] . 1929365;1566004978;asciilifeform;100% current to deployed item . 1929366;1566005471;lobbes;asciilifeform: with phf's uniturd fix in place, would you like me to repatch the following (with updated MANIFEST.TXT): http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr-vpatch/ ? 1929367;1566005489;lobbes;likewise, is there anything you need from me to eat the historical #e logs? 1929368;1566005543;asciilifeform;lobbes: not 100% certain yet; will need to test 1929369;1566005566;asciilifeform;lobbes: you're invited to test locally , btw, don't have to wait for me 1929370;1566005566;lobbes;kk. let me know if you need my hands for anything 1929371;1566005609;lobbes;once I genesis the 'classic' #e logotron I intend to do some testing 1929372;1566005612;*;asciilifeform would much like folx to start pressing the tree , and experimenting with own hands , rather than simply bringing tips to asciilifeform to make patch 1929373;1566012694;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/irclog2html-genesis/ << lobbesblog -- irclog2html genesis 1929374;1566012867;lobbes;^^ and with that, I will turn my attention back to testing asciilifeform's logotron for importing the uniturds 1929375;1566012875;lobbes;but that; tomorrow. Now I sleep. 1929376;1566012954;asciilifeform;hey lobbes , why is there a MB of log for some rando heathen chan inside that genesis ?? 1929377;1566013258;lobbes;asciilifeform: those were included in the original [https://pypi.org/project/irclog2html/2.14.0/#file][tarball] in the "tests" directory 1929378;1566013294;lobbes;i.e. I preserved 'as-is/was' 1929379;1566013325;lobbes;[not recommended for use; only for dissection] 1929380;1566013410;asciilifeform;a. 1929381;1566033776;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929222 << i honestly thought that was the steaming turd icon. 1929382;1566033776;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 12:24:53 asciilifeform: ♨ << loox like 'java log' ?!! (what's it doing in unicoad? is there 'coca cola' logo also?! and if not -- wainot?? ) 1929383;1566033969;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929260 << you hafta register a new name to de-ssl or what's the idea ? 1929384;1566033970;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 20:58:12 trinque: if we are content with that deedbot may come back under a different name (as if freenode is the canonical repository of anything) I'll remove the SSL cruft. 1929385;1566034142;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929279 << this is like "degrading" a chick from 5'4 to 5'31/2. anyone who's anyone had long tuned out anyways. 1929386;1566034143;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 21:23:12 BingoBoingo: Latest is that what was a disaster appears to have been normalized in argentine dialog while Fitch just downgraded then from B to CCC 1929387;1566034395;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929307 << that's a sound principle, but in practice it comes down to what he says : when stuck interfacing, use their interfacers. same logic powers "use fs to comm to apache" as powers "use znc between your proggy and freenode" etc. 1929388;1566034396;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:32 trinque: mnah, if I'm doing anything at all with "IRC" in the mix, I'm doing as little as possible 1929389;1566034400;mp_en_viaje;imo it's TRT. 1929390;1566034472;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929309 << this is going the oposite way of your stated principle neh ? www to implement a terminal in php via apache ? why not just use the existing terminal lol 1929391;1566034477;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 21:41:54 trinque: seriously considering opening a www channel into the bot 1929392;1566043056;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929350 << no such rule at fleanode , afaik. i suspect q was 'wat-do when someone lifts bot's pw'. 1929393;1566043056;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 06:08:08 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929260 << you hafta register a new name to de-ssl or what's the idea ? 1929394;1566043121;mp_en_viaje;well, the registration includes an email, so i guess reset the pw 1929395;1566043194;*;asciilifeform wonders if trinque spat on the email thing and regged via e.g. 'mailinator' 1929396;1566043580;mp_en_viaje;incidentally asciilifeform do you remember which trilema article has the herd of replicants drawing ? 1929397;1566044666;bvt;mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ 1929398;1566044731;mp_en_viaje;ty kindly! 1929399;1566053743;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/no-platforms/ << Trilema -- No platforms! 1929400;1566058608;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929348 << ftr that'd be 0x1f4a9 . doesn't seem to display on any linux i can find tho. 1929401;1566058608;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 06:04:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929222 << i honestly thought that was the steaming turd icon. 1929402;1566058639;asciilifeform;iirc may have been introduced by crapple, which i suppose is fitting. 1929403;1566062168;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929364 << rereading this classic, had grim thought : consider [http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/?b=pilots&e=slaves#select][the q mp_en_viaje posed at the end, 'Why is it, exactly, that the pilots didn't come home with a bunch of Iraqi slaves ?'] : 1929404;1566062168;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 09:06:27 bvt: mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ 1929405;1566062227;asciilifeform;observe that even in the period that e.g. wehrmacht soldiers ~were~ coming home with slaves, luftwaffe -- nope 1929406;1566062304;asciilifeform;and i suspect the reason is along the lines of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-09-26#1548766 . 1929407;1566062305;snsabot;Logged on 2016-09-26 15:36:06 a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 00:46 asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it. 1929408;1566062382;asciilifeform;and consequently that pilot (dun matter what personal courage, physical strength, etc) for so long as stays in the profession, is at the mercy of process much like what [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928497][mp described re comp operators] 1929409;1566062382;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 03:13:51 mp_en_viaje: i am aware various sysadmin-y folks flatter themselves that "something unixlike'd have existed anyway for our terminal&cmdline needs". this is utterly false, they'd have been clucking at GUI interfaces exactly like the medical profession / barristas everywhere, and been thankful when .jar finally rolled around. 1929410;1566062451;asciilifeform;infantryman -- can go home with slaves, or even with 17 train cars fulla gold watches (gen. zhukov) . pilot goes home with -- shirt. and some memories. 1929411;1566062504;asciilifeform;infantryman can take rifle and 'go off reservation', and, like the famous lt. onoda, grease it with fat of killed policemen for 4 decades. pilot -- not so much. 1929412;1566062728;asciilifeform;in this light, the current reich's all-out investment in aviation (formerly -- of expensive-but-working, today, 'f35' style) actually makes sense. 1929413;1566062807;asciilifeform;famously peron was overthrown with help of the exactly 2 little jets kurt tank was able to build in argentina. but doubt that today could happen similarly in reich, i suspect that the 'modern' machines will neither take off nor land w/out magic coad from inca satellite. 1929414;1566062910;asciilifeform;( all 'magic coads' aside -- flyers depend on massive and well-oiled supply chain; picked -- and not merely by bureaucrats, but by the very modern machine's similarity to programmable comp -- for 'colouring in the lines' ; prolly suffices. ) 1929415;1566062973;*;asciilifeform disclaims : not pilot. but arrived at this hypothesis not entirely from empty space. 1929416;1566063141;asciilifeform;observe, even today's debased piloting, where the man is largely in the cockpit to enter numbers into keypad -- gives , from reich's pov, too much to the man. and hence the ongoing effort to deskill even this profession, mechanize the machine 100% , remove the meat. 1929417;1566063336;asciilifeform;imho this hypothesis has explanatory power, in re usg's eagerness (against protest of all of the generals!) to scrap, e.g. the famous 'warthog' 1929418;1566063371;asciilifeform;'warthog' is old-style machine, and much closer to onoda's rifle than to 'f35', from this angle 1929419;1566063418;asciilifeform;(i.e. fella inside ~could~ aim the cannon at the parliament and pull trigger and it ~would~ fire) 1929420;1566063491;asciilifeform;i see no reason to suppose that usg's 'computerized' planes behave any diff. from e.g. cisco's routers. ( and the turks appear to agree , fwiw ) 1929421;1566063588;asciilifeform;this reduces arguably to mp_en_viaje's old piece where 'height of the towers'. yes, tower is tall, but... yer in a tower. 1929422;1566063646;asciilifeform;in the (per usg's Official Troof, 'bloodless') bloody coup of '93 that demolished remnant of sovok, observe -- no airplanes are known to have taken part. 1929423;1566063653;asciilifeform;only d00dz with ak. 1929424;1566063657;asciilifeform;(and coupla tanks) 1929425;1566063945;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929352 << My surprise is that they continue to rate Argentina instead of shaving off a half inch at a time. 1929426;1566063946;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 06:11:02 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929279 << this is like "degrading" a chick from 5'4 to 5'31/2. anyone who's anyone had long tuned out anyways. 1929427;1566064016;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the reason why the fiat printers can't take argentina behind the shed and shoot it, no matter how obviously necessary, is that then would have to also take selves there also and shoot 1929428;1566064057;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: as mp pointed out on numerous occasions, there is no substantive diff b/w argentina and usa, britain, etc. rest of reich. 1929429;1566064064;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929372 << one of the disadvantages of the advantage, i guess. 1929430;1566064064;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 13:59:08 asciilifeform: observe that even in the period that e.g. wehrmacht soldiers ~were~ coming home with slaves, luftwaffe -- nope 1929431;1566064099;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: There doesn't seem to by anything that can stop Argentina from getting tossed on the manure pile to rot this time. They are approaching the fiat system stable state. 1929432;1566064155;mp_en_viaje;this is baked into the question, though. "why didn't THE SYSTEM allocate the pilots slaves" ? you know the isis rural tards have complicated manual about "how to slaves", mostly dealing with the recipients' own homophobia and bizarre cuntfears. but those slaves aren't personally taken in war ; they're imam-distributed. 1929433;1566064168;mp_en_viaje;so the q there stated extends/dovetails into ye olde "why didn't they make iraq 51st state" 1929434;1566064205;mp_en_viaje;if they TRULY BELIEVE they got something, "democracy", blabla. if the pantsuit truly believe pantsuitism is +ev, then how come iraq isn't the 51st state ? 1929435;1566064234;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: as far as i can tell, they ~tried~ to '51st state'. problem is that inca can't even fully digest 1 baltimore, merely 1 small (physically large, but not so habitated) town where folx willing to ~sometimes~ shoot, much less entire iraq. 1929436;1566064245;mp_en_viaje;quite. 1929437;1566064278;mp_en_viaje;which was kinda my point : for all the in-universe supposed glory, slave empire dun work in any practical sense. 1929438;1566064302;mp_en_viaje;like cosmo kramer's kramerica industries : only qualified to supply FANTASY world business experience. not real world business experience. 1929439;1566064328;asciilifeform;observe incidentally that germany's slaves also were 'imam-distributed' . hence my suspicion, that 'legionnaires personally take slaves' doesn't extend to when the primary weapons are industrially-crafted objects with gnarly maintenance cycles, only really extends to when gladius. 1929440;1566064335;mp_en_viaje;(admittedly these considerations only interesting for me because actually got slave empire that works, otherwise it's a comparison of something with nothing) 1929441;1566064355;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, not really the case -- in empire, ALSO imam-distributed. 1929442;1566064369;mp_en_viaje;in republic, personal. and they had sired out of them some of the better republicans. 1929443;1566064411;asciilifeform;empire of rome detectably 'wanted' to be something like today's reich, aha. didn't have the industrial process to make it stick tho. 1929444;1566064511;mp_en_viaje;this is the female lifecycle : 1. menstruation ; 2.1. taken slave by republican | 2.2 taken slave by slave | 2.3. rots untaken. then 2.1 goes on to mother M.T. Tiro ; 2.2 goes on to mother a buncha redditards. 1929445;1566064563;mp_en_viaje;or w/e, if the inventor of shorthand not good enough, claudius' mother was a whore named a caneis. 1929446;1566064690;mp_en_viaje;i gotta find that "isis manual" now, was such a piece of lulzy idiocy... 1929447;1566064818;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: pretty sure it was linked. and imho not entirely surprising -- these folx were still sitting in trees when europe was puzzling over jurisprudence . so naturally they will write 'buggy reimplementation of 80% of lis^H^H^H justinian et al' , just as they 'invent' caesar's cipher etc 1929448;1566064837;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929384 << Note that global state of the art in this area has fallen from Warthog to Super Tucano. Much as the SR-71 and concorde are gone, the Warthog has been out of print for a while. Maybe the Chicoms make a flying tank at some point, but the art has fallen from flying tank to flying toyota Hilux 1929449;1566064838;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 14:17:38 asciilifeform: imho this hypothesis has explanatory power, in re usg's eagerness (against protest of all of the generals!) to scrap, e.g. the famous 'warthog' 1929450;1566064871;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: afaik chinese to this day fly 100% license-built ru machines (with minor cosmetic modifications) 1929451;1566064925;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, the most striking aspect was just how unfamiliar with women or womanhood they found themselves. it's like an agricultural manual that omits any discussion whatsoever of soil acidity or inclination, focuses greatly on the zodiac. 1929452;1566064927;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: They chicoms have at least one weird fighter that appears to not be clone. 1929453;1566064935;mp_en_viaje;only possible conclusion is "these dudes never farmed" 1929454;1566064953;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: naturally. bedouins, neh. 1929455;1566064984;mp_en_viaje;i expect, socialmedia tards, really. 1929456;1566064992;mp_en_viaje;the weevs of over there, as it were. 1929457;1566065023;asciilifeform;recall isis colonel who posted jpeg of his position, complete with coords, to arsebook. 1929458;1566065067;asciilifeform;'hey is that a 20 tonne gas-air bomb falling on our head?' 'aha. must be will of allah.' 1929459;1566065910;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The US colonels do that too http://qntra.net/2018/07/security-personnel-continue-leaking-location-and-activity-information-through-fitness-apps/ 1929460;1566065973;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: rright, with the only diff being that, of yet, there is no one to drop the earned 20 tonnes on ~their~ head 1929461;1566066265;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well why would anyone drop 20 tonnes on lone colonel jogging? Makes more sense to pick them off one by one. 1929462;1566066341;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: cuz 'when all you have is hammer' 1929463;1566066362;BingoBoingo;Hammers kill more UStards annually than rifles do... 1929464;1566066364;asciilifeform;usg's war machine, such as it exists, is largely this box where general keys in coords and 'drop 20 tonnes this-here' 1929465;1566066461;BingoBoingo;And using it like that is why the US is following Argentina to the manure pile. https://archive.is/A4VH3 Hammer works 1929466;1566066858;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: hey, hammer was entirely goodenuff for the franks. 1929467;1566066895;asciilifeform;for that matter, observe, some of the most picturesque 'postals' were -- with sword. (picture, katana, in crowded subway.) 1929468;1566066916;asciilifeform;fire -- even better than sword. 1929469;1566067024;asciilifeform;this is why reich propaganda machine tirelessly repeats the line where 'postal, is what you do with rifle, let's fixate on rifle' 1929470;1566067075;asciilifeform;anyffin to keep the 'feel like a trader'(tm) tards from waking up to fact that pressure washer + petrol easily mows down 1000+ , while e.g. kalash into crowd, lucky if 100. 1929471;1566067535;asciilifeform;meanwhile : imho [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-17#1000246][good pedagogic thrd in #o] . 1929472;1566067535;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 14:51:34 asciilifeform: diana_alt: fella seems to have profound talent for reading text w/out ~actually~ reading. (for instance, escaped noticing that primary diff. b/w a vpatch and a heathen patch, isn't that it is pgp signed (heathens had pgp-signed patches 20y ago) but that it doesn't fuzzy-merge. 1929473;1566068496;lobbes;asciilifeform: could you point me to some threads/reading re: this 'fuzzy-merge' concept? V is the only version-control patch system I've ever used, so I'm having trouble comparing it to the 'anti-models' (I've never used shithub, for e.g.). 1929474;1566068500;lobbes;I figure my own understanding could use some improvement as well 1929475;1566068525;trinque;lobbes: never seen "hunk succeeded at offset X" ? 1929476;1566068531;asciilifeform;^ 1929477;1566068540;lobbes;trinque: nope 1929478;1566068557;lobbes;or rather, that string does not ring bells 1929479;1566068564;asciilifeform;lobbes: observe that vpatches carry hashes, and demand that the output of prev. patch , going back to genesis, has to specific value. i.e. prohibit 'fuzzy' 1929480;1566068601;asciilifeform;lobbes: in traditional heathen patching, gnupatch will attempt to shoehorn a patch into place for so long as it does not entirely conflict with the existing text 1929481;1566068623;trinque;i.e. matches the prev and suceeding lines in the diff 1929482;1566068636;trinque;at w/e magical "fuzz" number of lines is permitted 1929483;1566068638;asciilifeform;aha 1929484;1566068660;asciilifeform;lobbes: see also [https://neil.fraser.name/writing/patch/][this] old likbez. 1929485;1566068678;lobbes;oh okay. I was not aware the others did not do this... yeah that shoehorning sounds... dumb 1929486;1566068693;*;lobbes will also check out that likbez, ty 1929487;1566068725;asciilifeform;lobbes: there had been ad-hoc attempts by heathens to add signatures to patches (e.g. linus's) but afaik all permitted 'fuzzy'. 1929488;1566068759;lobbes;so in other words, the heathen patchers don't care if the prev hashes do not match? 1929489;1566068770;asciilifeform;lobbes: they don't hash at all, typically 1929490;1566068776;lobbes;wow, okay 1929491;1566068780;lobbes;I see the problem there 1929492;1566068782;asciilifeform;only ask that the 'begin' and 'end' strings match the given 1929493;1566068845;asciilifeform;lobbes: observe that the hashes you see in vpatches , in the pre-keccak (i.e. pre- disposal of gnu diff ) are not generated by gnu diff 1929494;1566068865;asciilifeform;gnu diff / patch don't know about hashes at all . 1929495;1566068951;lobbes;yeah, the pre-keccak used the shell-based vdiff iirc right? 1929496;1566069018;asciilifeform;lobbes: it looked like [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-01-28#1777755][this] . 1929497;1566069018;snsabot;Logged on 2018-01-28 11:45:00 asciilifeform: diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(--- a|\+\+\+)/{cmd="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null ";s=cmd| getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} close(cmd); print $1 " " $2 " " o} !m { print $0 }' 1929498;1566069029;lobbes;aha now that I recall using 1929499;1566069100;lobbes;twas in ben_vulpes' original V guide 1929500;1566069134;lobbes;ty trinque asciilifeform. This helped 1929501;1566069158;asciilifeform;lobbes: over time there was series of small changes to that awk, to work around various congenital defects of gnupatch; ended up with phf et al writing entirely new replacement proggy, which is the current vdiff. 1929502;1566069547;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1929503;1566077211;lobbes;micro-nit, but I noticed the example syntax for creating a database in [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/logotron/logotron_genesis.kv.vpatch][logotron README.txt] is noted as 'createdb', but in most of the documentation I've checked it is 'CREATE DATABASE' (https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.4/sql-createdatabase.html) 1929504;1566077240;trinque;two different things; he's talking about the shell tool, and you're talking about the sql command 1929505;1566077555;lobbes;aa okay 1929506;1566077723;*;lobbes has been stepping through 'manually' for the most part; ran all of the lines in 'nsalog_schem.sql' one-by-one from psql commandline 1929507;1566077735;lobbes;about to read through eat_dump.py and do some testing 1929508;1566078760;trinque;asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-16#1929288 << want me to cough up some more copy? 1929509;1566078760;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 21:33:39 asciilifeform: trinque's sample is a+++ imho. oughta go in. 1929510;1566079176;asciilifeform;trinque: pleez. but for immediate eating by BingoBoingo , i'ma look slightly later 1929511;1566079216;BingoBoingo;trinque: Go for it. 1929512;1566080872;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/john-hopkins-professor-gets-out-after-sanctions-for-entering-protester-occupied-building-to-attempt-work/ << Qntra -- John Hopkins Professor Gets Out After Sanctions For Entering Protester Occupied Building To Attempt Work 1929513;1566081114;asciilifeform;'if the worst comes to the worst I can always go to China or Russia' << lol, wasn't aware these needed american profs 1929514;1566081138;BingoBoingo;Well, he didn't specify what he'd be doing over there. 1929515;1566081148;trinque;ccccccknjlkfvrebiblucidiednjubhftfjflfnjbddr 1929516;1566081161;trinque;lolwut, that was a terminal window scroll 1929517;1566081165;BingoBoingo;China needs white men for their domestic stock photo industry 1929518;1566081166;asciilifeform;haa 1929519;1566081199;asciilifeform;trinque: check for stuck pedals!11 1929520;1566081235;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: hey do you think you can get the good doktor povey to come & visit ? 1929521;1566081285;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: You want him to land in your castle? 1929522;1566081297;asciilifeform;can go straight here, if mp dun object 1929523;1566081415;BingoBoingo;I'll shoot him a note unless you want to invite him to meet up for lunch or something. Seems like he's still in your neighborhood. 1929524;1566081475;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: imho this patient oughta go straight to mp's operating room, if he'll have him 1929525;1566083861;lobbes;In logotron testing news, (as probably expected) eat_dump.py still [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4FqCq/?raw=true][barfing on uniturd eating]. Studying [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/n5CQ3/?raw=true][phf's algo] to see if I can get it working 1929526;1566084628;lobbes;yes! phf's algo worx again 1929527;1566084713;lobbes;had to add two lines to eat_dump.py; going to try now with a larger test dataset 1929528;1566088653;asciilifeform;lobbes: let it eat the #u archive, then run reader.py, take a look at the known barf lines from before. if it ate correctly, make again vpatch (from current leaf of tree) and i'ma sign, then eat on dulap. 1929529;1566088659;asciilifeform;#e that is 1929530;1566088874;asciilifeform;lobbes: put it in 'logconverters' subdir next to diana_coman's item . 1929531;1566089183;lobbes;asciilifeform: sounds good. So far it ate 160k lines of #e archive. However, found a bug in my znc2tmsr code where if line payload was null, my thing did not output a ';' at the end 1929532;1566089196;lobbes;offending line, for reference: http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-25.log.html#t19:49:40 1929533;1566089206;lobbes;will fix and retest 1929534;1566089362;asciilifeform;lobbes: tangentially -- any idea why #e seems to have fallen into disuse ? since i stood up logger, saw ~0 life there 1929535;1566089377;asciilifeform;do the players use in-game chat nao , or wat 1929536;1566089452;lobbes;asciilifeform: has been pretty quiet as of late. not sure why tbh. danielpbarron, Birdman, et al have been quiet as well, tho, and they were frequent players 1929537;1566089531;lobbes;also Mocky has been silent for some time it seems 1929538;1566089796;lobbes;though I figure once mp is done traveling and diana_coman gets her young hands club running there may be more development chat in #e 1929539;1566090444;lobbes;re: upstack (to my surprise) loox like the bug on eating null payloads wasn't in my znc2tsmr code, but in fact in eat_dump.py. [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PunQN/?raw=true][Barf for reference] 1929540;1566090448;lobbes;still, probably an easy fix 1929541;1566091779;asciilifeform;lobbes: you're invited to submit patch for eater also. 1929542;1566091783;*;asciilifeform will bbl:meat. 1929543;1566091806;lobbes;excellent; fix worked all #e lines ate. Now to inspect and test reader.py 1929544;1566091854;lobbes;and okay. I'll bundle the eater fixes and znc2tmsr into the vpatch 1929545;1566093326;auctionbot;Buy order # 1054 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo 1929546;1566093327;auctionbot;Buy order # 1055 has ENDED: 500 WFF, WU esta bien SOLD by lobbes for 51mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo 1929547;1566106577;diana_alt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929501 - eulora's next phase awaits the new client basically; so yes, it's been quiet in game too for quite a while. 1929548;1566106578;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 21:31:25 asciilifeform: lobbes: tangentially -- any idea why #e seems to have fallen into disuse ? since i stood up logger, saw ~0 life there 1929549;1566130998;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929434 << sword takes training to use this way, noob wrists get tired. i can't find now where i put the "two smgs, make sure you mow down everyone in your car then come out screaming and flailing armss down the tunnel with the rest of the muppets, let Inca sort you out" 1929550;1566130998;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 15:16:57 asciilifeform: for that matter, observe, some of the most picturesque 'postals' were -- with sword. (picture, katana, in crowded subway.) 1929551;1566131022;mp_en_viaje;something like that, though. the one missing aspect of the manalone pushback is that he universally fails to meld back into the herd. 1929552;1566131032;mp_en_viaje;that'd increase his terror impact immensely. 1929553;1566131136;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929437 << this is iffy. fuel-air bombs win over nato rounds (and most all other nato ornance), which is why russia picked htem as their doctrine, because they're less-worse in the context, not because they're unisersally good. 1929554;1566131136;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 15:19:57 asciilifeform: anyffin to keep the 'feel like a trader'(tm) tards from waking up to fact that pressure washer + petrol easily mows down 1000+ , while e.g. kalash into crowd, lucky if 100. 1929555;1566131149;mp_en_viaje;the contexct being "an army", aka killing ~bureaucracy~. 1929556;1566131185;mp_en_viaje;fi you don't have a bureaucracy, the kinetics of many-moving-hot-metal-bits still beats the thermodynamics of delta-energy. 1929557;1566131333;mp_en_viaje;rifle is not bad for the purpose, especially if you get one with overpenetration. even pistols are ok. and if you take care of your ammo adequacy, armored police become [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-05-29#1473356][preferred] targets, let that zirconium burn their black innards. 1929558;1566131334;snsabot;Logged on 2016-05-29 16:10:05 mircea_popescu: still, stuff like the raufoss mk211 is the exact pill for "oh, we're armored". orly ? well done, so the round won't blow clear through you! enjoy zirconium fire in your spleen! 1929559;1566131576;mp_en_viaje;something like the venerable sa 25 will empty its magazine in 5 seconds. that means 40x 9x19mm dribblets flying through the air. if you use the specialized russian rounds, can has 600m/s / 750 J exit energy, enough to defeat cheapo "bulletproof" vests. 1929560;1566131627;mp_en_viaje;in order to spray enough fuel to burn to death the same pile of spurious subhumanity, you'd need more than you can carry. 1929561;1566131662;mp_en_viaje;we're not even talking mac10 or uzi or anything here. 1929562;1566131732;mp_en_viaje;or, for that matter, the russky vytiaz 1929563;1566132031;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929440 << no, actually, your state is bliss, finding yourself as you are a man whom nobody taught nonsense. that you don't have to first unlearn "my hoovercraft is fulla eels" is a grand boon. 1929564;1566132031;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 15:43:38 lobbes: asciilifeform: could you point me to some threads/reading re: this 'fuzzy-merge' concept? V is the only version-control patch system I've ever used, so I'm having trouble comparing it to the 'anti-models' (I've never used shithub, for e.g.). 1929565;1566132060;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929441 << read about the nonsense later, for now you still risk it "snaps" into place. 1929566;1566132061;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 15:43:42 lobbes: I figure my own understanding could use some improvement as well 1929567;1566132374;mp_en_viaje;https://archive.is/m7grP << someone write to the fellow invite him over plox ? 1929568;1566132688;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929489 << nope ; on the contrary, mp instructed harem to similarily invite. time for write-in campaign! 1929569;1566132688;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 19:17:00 asciilifeform: can go straight here, if mp dun object 1929570;1566132728;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929491 << dude, totally, john hopkins' right over there. why don't you ask the man out, buy him a steak, see ? 1929571;1566132728;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 19:19:58 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho this patient oughta go straight to mp's operating room, if he'll have him 1929572;1566133018;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929501 << i've been travelling so not playing ; danielpbarron left for greener pastures in the intellectual desert ; diana working more playing less these days, same for mocky i suspect ; hanbot and nicole travelling with me, it's just... large potion of the userbase simultaneously quit, from a naive pov. from the connected pov ~everyone will be back, especially as new server / client are avail. 1929573;1566133018;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 21:31:25 asciilifeform: lobbes: tangentially -- any idea why #e seems to have fallen into disuse ? since i stood up logger, saw ~0 life there 1929574;1566133051;mp_en_viaje;it's a sort of #trilema-goes-dark, of sorts, but longer on a smaller chan for heavier lifting. 1929575;1566133220;mp_en_viaje;!!up hanbot_derpy 1929576;1566133221;deedbot;hanbot_derpy voiced for 30 minutes. 1929577;1566133222;mp_en_viaje;hey there. 1929578;1566133284;hanbot_derpy;howdy, ty. just wanted to say i'ma write to the povey d00d, has a sort of pre-joe stack feel... 1929579;1566133354;mp_en_viaje;he looks like 20 years younger. 1929580;1566133465;hanbot_derpy;yeah, good for him for potentially wasting less time with the apparatus. 1929581;1566133511;mp_en_viaje;in truth, the nonsense's way the fuck more obviously grating these days than in the 90s or 2000s. 1929582;1566133556;mp_en_viaje;heck, the 90s passed by undetected, i had nfi as late as 1999 besides a vague, unanchored and inexpressible feeling "something's wrong" 1929583;1566133594;mp_en_viaje;if you review period fiction, it's present in a majority of items, too. just as vague, unanchored... making it all retrospectively so fucking obvious. 1929584;1566133781;hanbot_derpy;i wonder if that's an historical pattern, vague fiction - brink of hell. 1929585;1566133993;mp_en_viaje;cancer starts as a dream. 1929586;1566134078;mp_en_viaje;"However, the program becomes more complicated when the two copies of the base document are not identical. In these cases the patch program must do the best job it can in applying the " << motherfucker monkeys, how the fuck did this rank imbecile manage to make stupidity sound like "a challenge" ? 1929587;1566134173;mp_en_viaje;this is the fuck they do all the fuck day long, ain't it. take something that should never be done, pretend like the doing is "more complicated" than the not doing through the transparent venue of [http://trilema.com/2015/the-squares-and-the-holes/#identifier_1_63723][applying cuntlogic], and so act like it's somehow heroic. 1929588;1566134179;mp_en_viaje;it's not fucking heroic, it's fucking stupid. 1929589;1566134218;mp_en_viaje;i can almost hear the cageworthy old woman impelling the nonsense, too, "oh, why don't you want to do $random-stupid-shit, ~are you too scared?!?!?!?~". 1929590;1566134283;mp_en_viaje;it is ~ALWAYS~ harder to not do something stupid than to do it. which is why the whole discussion re povey above, too. 1929591;1566134388;mp_en_viaje;then he uses https://neil.fraser.name/writing/patch/pattern-pp.png "patterns in pride and prejudice", because a) that ignominous dumb cunt is somehow to be referenced, in literature. AS FUCKING IF. and then, because code has the fuck anything to do with language, at all. 1929592;1566134400;mp_en_viaje;diff is used on computer non-language, which is a beast of pattern. 1929593;1566134438;mp_en_viaje;i'm done, Neil Fraser's a fucking moron. 1929594;1566134488;mp_en_viaje;"Google engineer Neil Fraser, who works in the company's education department," with tards like that, no wonder google's not worth the lint in my pocket. 1929595;1566138997;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-18#1929520 << imho the correct historical comparison would be, rather, mcarthur's 'fire jobs', rather than modern-day item made for puncturing fortifications. 1929596;1566138998;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-18 09:07:42 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929437 << this is iffy. fuel-air bombs win over nato rounds (and most all other nato ornance), which is why russia picked htem as their doctrine, because they're less-worse in the context, not because they're unisersally good. 1929597;1566139057;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-18#1929516 << my understanding is that folx who choose swords, tend to be the ones who practiced with same 1929598;1566139058;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-18 09:05:23 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929434 << sword takes training to use this way, noob wrists get tired. i can't find now where i put the "two smgs, make sure you mow down everyone in your car then come out screaming and flailing armss down the tunnel with the rest of the muppets, let Inca sort you out" 1929599;1566139089;mp_en_viaje;the one utility for thermodynamic weaponry is discussed in http://trilema.com/2015/a-blast-from-the-past-or-the-molotov-cocktail-guide-this-is-how-you-win/ ; they're good for disrupting positioningof enemy 1929600;1566139095;mp_en_viaje;they're not good for mass kill. 1929601;1566139118;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, from experience, that is not so. consider elliot, he didn't even fucking train. 1929602;1566139125;asciilifeform;he used sword ?! 1929603;1566139131;mp_en_viaje;he waved a handgun out of window 1929604;1566139147;asciilifeform;i was speaking of the sword-in-subway folx 1929605;1566139154;mp_en_viaje;the "samurai cuts down 500 enemies in one sitting" story describes people who did nothing else since age 11. 1929606;1566139163;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: iirc record holder in usa to this day ( re total count ) was the 'happiland' d00d, where 80+ on 3 litres of petrol 1929607;1566139209;mp_en_viaje;this is about as idiotic as saying "mother of gengis khan killed most of europe with one good hip thrust" 1929608;1566139221;asciilifeform;(granted -- the victims did 99% of the work for him, by packing into ridiculous small space and stampeding ) 1929609;1566139235;mp_en_viaje;by all means, so what, train women to hipthrust ? the main ingredient there was the happiland social club, not the 3 liters of petrol. 1929610;1566139268;asciilifeform;this is entirely tru. but such target not exactly rare. 1929611;1566139278;mp_en_viaje;nor its finding exactly cheap. 1929612;1566139283;mp_en_viaje;notice pizarro's success to date. 1929613;1566139327;*;asciilifeform utterly fails to see the connection 1929614;1566139396;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-18#1929551 << this i suspect is right on the money. consider the liquishit that was printed in the interwar years. 1929615;1566139397;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-18 09:51:47 hanbot_derpy: i wonder if that's an historical pattern, vague fiction - brink of hell. 1929616;1566139818;mp_en_viaje;i guess it was a metaphore! 1929617;1566140782;mp_en_viaje;incidentally, anyone happen to recall where the fuck i put in the log a line about how the problem with intelligent people is that they don't want mere solutions, but specifically solutions that rely on that intelligence. 1929618;1566140925;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-05-01#1806920 in random hits from ye logs 1929619;1566140925;snsabot;Logged on 2018-05-01 03:43:31 mircea_popescu: fellow strikes me as intelligent in conversation, then i keep having somehow the exact sort of problems with him that i usually have with idiots : i have no fucking idea what's going on, and i have to twist arms to sorta find out, maybe. 1929620;1566142520;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: it was in an old trilema piece, the one about 'sprezzatura' 1929621;1566142526;mp_en_viaje;no ?! 1929622;1566142552;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, http://trilema.com/2009/sprezzatura-o-problema-locala/ ?! where ? 1929623;1566142630;asciilifeform;was translation iirc. where 'but anyone could parallel park using steering wheel! troo sport is to do it without wheel, said the sprezzaturist' or similar 1929624;1566142688;mp_en_viaje;nfi where that is ;/ 1929625;1566142714;mp_en_viaje;and meanwhile progressed to also missing a line where i say "if you were born male, you're male still, irrespective of how you might've abused your body in the meanwhile". 1929626;1566142719;mp_en_viaje;not in log, npot on trilema, vanished. 1929627;1566142739;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: that was in the "alice_m" thrd. 1929628;1566142748;mp_en_viaje;oh was it ? so not in your logotron yet ? 1929629;1566142772;asciilifeform;quite possib 1929630;1566142777;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22alice_m%22 << look at that. 1929631;1566142781;asciilifeform;[http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/#footnote_3_56091][the steering wheel, btw, found] 1929632;1566142782;mp_en_viaje;could it be alice somethingelse ? 1929633;1566142792;asciilifeform;i was off re sprezz. 1929634;1566142809;mp_en_viaje;o fuck me ty so very much! 1929635;1566142859;asciilifeform;aaand [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-01-08#1767159][here's the other one] 1929636;1566142859;snsabot;Logged on 2018-01-08 12:19:52 mircea_popescu: the claim "i am female" is fraudulent ; you are male and will die male. this is something decided at birth and unalterable. 1929637;1566142951;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, the footnote is very good, but NOT actually the item i was looking for ;/ which is, i can see it in my mind'seye, specifically a line in the lgo saying that the problem with intelligent people is that they want to put that intelligence to use. the context was something about dying in the trenches. 1929638;1566142971;mp_en_viaje;now, the item you found is quite related, conceptually, but still, discusses women's equivalent issue. 1929639;1566142976;mp_en_viaje;which doesn't serve me here. 1929640;1566142986;asciilifeform;hrm this was defo mentioned. but so far defies shovel. 1929641;1566143008;mp_en_viaje;and the other one is exactly the same situation : very good and clearly related, but not the exact item, which i am positive included the strings "you are male still" "abused your body" 1929642;1566143098;asciilifeform;that one pretty certain was a 'tits service' candidate who turned out to be some d00d, compl. w/ stubble 1929643;1566143186;mp_en_viaje;i thought that was the alice character 1929644;1566143217;asciilifeform;it was the 1 that ended up with vendetta against ben_vulpes somehow 1929645;1566143229;asciilifeform;can't seem to recall, grr, what it called itself 1929646;1566143259;asciilifeform;90% sure it was [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=from%3Avixen&chan=trilema][this] character. 1929647;1566143367;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1929648;1566147333;mp_en_viaje;hm. 1929649;1566149224;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-borderline-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Borderline. Adnotated. 1929650;1566166594;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell lobbes http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jlW5I/?raw=true 1929651;1566166595;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1929652;1566171741;BingoBoingo;In updates, Povey says he might stop by. 1929653;1566181635;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr_etckvvpatch/ << lobbesblog -- znc2...atch 1929654;1566182079;lobbes;^ asciilifeform 1929655;1566182079;lobbesbot;lobbes: Sent 4 hours and 18 minutes ago: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jlW5I/?raw=true 1929656;1566183174;lobbes;!Qlater tell BingoBoingo http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hCbR8/?raw=true 1929657;1566183174;lobbesbot;lobbes: The operation succeeded. 1929658;1566184404;BingoBoingo;lobbes: Looks like you targeted the wrong key 1929659;1566184404;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: Sent 20 minutes ago: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hCbR8/?raw=true 1929660;1566184505;BingoBoingo;lobbesbot: false alarm 1929661;1566184516;BingoBoingo;tried decrypting the wrong block 1929662;1566187265;lobbes;!!v F67E486876EF654FC1DEB5684A6A8BE1F24B58C4D4F2E925FC580CD2328866CC 1929663;1566187268;deedbot;Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.051 << Buy order # 1055: 500 WFF 1929664;1566188702;asciilifeform;lobbes: i'ma try your proggy tomorrow. ideally time finally came to eat all of the back-archives. 1929665;1566188867;asciilifeform;lobbes: possibly it can even be used to bake a phf-style refill/sync system that eats znc. 1929666;1566230453;asciilifeform;lobbes: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr_etckvvpatch/comment-page-1/#comment-59 1929667;1566234150;diana_alt;so there's still a totally unknown but significant delay on logger, weird stuff 1929668;1566234418;asciilifeform;diana_alt: there defo is. i've measured up to 0.6s (and all outside of the py proggy per se, i.e. vanishes if accessed at localhost ) 1929669;1566234469;asciilifeform;diana_alt: fwiw i was not, to date, able to rule out mp's 'overworked pipe' hypothesis . 1929670;1566234509;asciilifeform;when someone sets up this logger outside of piz, i suppose will tell us sumthing re subj. 1929671;1566234562;diana_alt;asciilifeform: hm, does it vanish if accessed from other-machine-at-pizarro too? 1929672;1566234600;asciilifeform;diana_alt: i do not currently know, atm i only have access to 1 piz machine. if you have time, plz try from yours and share result. 1929673;1566234632;asciilifeform;diana_alt: however, if accessed from localhost on ~public port~ (80) then yes same delay 1929674;1566234635;asciilifeform;so i suspect you will find same 1929675;1566234652;diana_alt;asciilifeform: atm all my auth except this travel key are in various degrees of deep freeze but if it's not tested until I get back to my usual terminal, I'll try it out 1929676;1566234659;asciilifeform;delay disappears when accessed on localhost at the 'high' (nonpublic) port where the py proggy itself is answering 1929677;1566234683;diana_alt;interesting at least in re pipe I suppose 1929678;1566234723;asciilifeform;pipe delay ( piz <-> asciilifeform's chair , cannot be generalized to entire planet ) varies from 0.2-0.4s (for revvup of tcp pipe, that is) 1929679;1566234784;BingoBoingo;!!v BF1BCFCD9C0BCE3C6F04BEF6CBC214090B75361B39BE8EEF670BFB6EA52FE42F 1929680;1566234787;deedbot;BingoBoingo paid lobbes invoice 6 1929681;1566234844;asciilifeform;diana_alt: if you press the vtree and set up the logger on own box, where you happen to be, and import the daily db dump, can then observe the 'native' speed of the thing. 1929682;1566234921;asciilifeform;i get (and on rather slow machine) load time for the 'heavy' example page comparable to the time it takes for the mouse button to go up an' down. 1929683;1566235336;asciilifeform;diana_alt: i have plan to move the box to traditional apache, but yet not figured out how to do so w/out unacceptably long disruption of service . 1929684;1566235435;asciilifeform;( at one pt, long ago, when baked phuctor, asciilifeform had a preference for nginx, but it turned out to be ill-founded . currently both phuctor and log www are served by a nginx . ) 1929685;1566235579;asciilifeform;neither phuctor nor logger is written in such a way as to force the choice of either nginx or apache as the front-side proxy, will eat either just the same. simply requires the appropriate config. 1929686;1566235864;asciilifeform;the reason why i currently suspect nginx as the culprit, is that i observed very similar delay when loading static (e.g. FG photograph) files via same. 1929687;1566235905;asciilifeform;previously i chalked this up to 'slow pipe'. now suspect also the proxying proggy. 1929688;1566235966;asciilifeform;( had not, prior to folx observing 'logger is slow, say wai' , taken the sweat to properly monitor where in the typical page load is time spent and on what ) 1929689;1566235979;diana_alt;ah, I *was* wondering re nginx as my only recollection of it was BingoBoingo trying it out and ending up with more trouble than it's worth 1929690;1566236044;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plz perform the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929642][simple experiment suggested by diana_alt] and tell result. 1929691;1566236044;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 13:53:04 diana_alt: asciilifeform: atm all my auth except this travel key are in various degrees of deep freeze but if it's not tested until I get back to my usual terminal, I'll try it out 1929692;1566236272;diana_alt;spyked: I don't recall and can't see at http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/081-feedbot-manual.html - is feedbot for L1 only or does it work for anyone with positive ratings or regardless of rating or what? 1929693;1566236318;diana_alt;ah, nm, now I saw it in the footnote - it is L1 only 1929694;1566236567;asciilifeform;diana_alt: reasons to suspect the pipe, include this: i have stood up temporarily a raw flask on port 33. try time curl "http://logs.nosuchlabs.com:33/log" > /dev/null 1929695;1566236577;BingoBoingo;diana_alt: I never managed to deploy anything that worked as needed on nginx. I managed things that almost work on lighttpd, but it simply lacks the good stuff apache offers for blogs. 1929696;1566236602;asciilifeform;( diana_alt lemme know after tried, i'ma switch it off, it's an unhygienic thing ) 1929697;1566236648;asciilifeform;in my own test, there is no substantial detectable diff 1929698;1566236761;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0I7Gg/?raw=true 1929699;1566236763;diana_alt;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kYos2/?raw=true 1929700;1566236791;asciilifeform;( keep in mind that the links in the loaded page still point to the original ) 1929701;1566236832;asciilifeform;diana_alt: do 3-4 shots via each (main vs 33) and paste plox 1929702;1566237102;diana_alt;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kUEXH/?raw=true 1929703;1566237106;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: from Pizarro machine http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6jrpH/?raw=true 1929704;1566237126;asciilifeform;ty diana_alt , BingoBoingo . (i'ma switch off the 2nd logger for nao, will run it again if anyone requests, later) 1929705;1566237206;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo's output is pretty interesting -- how is it that he gets >2x the wait from ~local~ machine than diana_alt from europistan. 1929706;1566237235;asciilifeform;( possibly BingoBoingo's is under load ?? ) 1929707;1566237278;BingoBoingo;Possible, don't have ssh into any cabinet machines that aren't serving things 1929708;1566237278;asciilifeform;diana_alt's, on other hand, is very similar to mine, i.e. no substantial diff b/w main and 'naked' 1929709;1566237438;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: meanwhile trying on other machine seems solved for the right reason "rl: (6) Could not resolve host: logs.nosuchlabs.com" 1929710;1566237469;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: naked ip also worx (lemme know if you want the 2nd logger on 33 switched on , to try moar ) 1929711;1566237549;asciilifeform;the logger does not depend on dnsism to work ( can set the domain in /etc/hosts like e.g. mp does ) 1929712;1566237702;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I don't think that will be needed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/05a8I/?raw=true 1929713;1566237728;BingoBoingo;"real 0m 0.01s" 1929714;1566237753;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the 33 logger is off atm 1929715;1566237787;BingoBoingo;right, these are tests on the one that's running 1929716;1566237888;BingoBoingo;From other machine time goes up a smidge: "real 0m0.035s" 1929717;1566238443;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: that loox realistic. 1929718;1566238464;asciilifeform;( and imho further suggests that pipe is culprit ) 1929719;1566238485;asciilifeform;'go to war with the pipe you have, not the pipe you wish you had'(tm)(r) 1929720;1566239025;asciilifeform;piz pipe is not gonna set any speed records. (however, is extremely reliable, e.g. asciilifeform gets ssh sessions that last 3-4 months) 1929721;1566239048;asciilifeform;... and typically they die on acct of connectivity pause on asciilifeform's end, rather than piz 1929722;1566239076;asciilifeform;!quptime 1929723;1566239077;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 3d 4h 43m 1929724;1566239119;asciilifeform;^ the log bot itself, for instance, thus far has only reconnected when asciilifeform manually cycled it, to update to new ver (last such time, to put phf's uniturd pill in production) 1929725;1566242912;BingoBoingo; ( and imho further suggests that pipe is culprit ) << My desk offers "0m0.073s" suggesting geography may be at play 1929726;1566242921;asciilifeform;interesting. 1929727;1566243049;BingoBoingo;I remember a thread from last year where trinque saw long pings doing something at the same time MP was enjoying incredibly fast ping to Eulora server 1929728;1566244464;asciilifeform;oook here's an experiment : asciilifeform set up a mirror of the logotron on a cheap heathen host. ( one of the most rubbish hosters known, lulazon's . hence cannot in fact stand up copy of bot there, fleanode bans conns from it unless sslized. but the db is current. ) 1929729;1566244492;asciilifeform;time curl http://54.209.217.34/log > /dev/null from my chair yields 0.063s. 1929730;1566244564;asciilifeform;other folx welcome to try. e.g. the 'heavy page' : curl http://54.209.217.34/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 > /dev/null 1929731;1566244573;asciilifeform;... from here eats 0.268s. 1929732;1566244595;asciilifeform;deliberately this setup uses nginx and same (as far as could replicate on the heathen box) stack of proggies as the orig. 1929733;1566244612;asciilifeform;this suggests that culprit of 'mystery delay' is in fact piz pipe. 1929734;1566244681;asciilifeform;errybody's welcome to play with the mirror ( it's a '1st month -- phreeee!' pseudo-machine , i'ma leave it up for a spell, tho it will , obv., grow no new log lines ) 1929735;1566244759;asciilifeform;i suppose for completeness will mention an alt-hypothesis -- somehow nic on dulap is culprit. 1929736;1566244808;*;asciilifeform did not bother to sync the clock, so times on shit mirror will vary vs. dulap's 1929737;1566245268;asciilifeform;all knobs aside from 'download snapshot' work, so feel free to e.g. walk the 'random' pages etc. 1929738;1566245404;asciilifeform;this experiment also reveals that asciilifeform's logotron will in fact stand up, with no modifications, on a python, flask, pg, etc. plucked out of arbitrary rubbish bin. 1929739;1566245570;asciilifeform;i'ma switch this thing off in coupla days, once errybody's taken the offered measurement and is satisfied ( i dun want a 'fossilized' logger sitting for idiots to find and think 'they're dead' ) 1929740;1566245706;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo, diana_coman, et al ^ as time permits , plox to post load times of this ^ log. 1929741;1566245715;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime 1929742;1566245999;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: My chair gives "real 0m0.524s" 1929743;1566246069;BingoBoingo;From the rack gives 0m0.561s 1929744;1566248017;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: hard to say for fact, but seems to add up to a picture where's there's a ~0.5s bottleneck b/w south amer. and errywhere else. 1929745;1566248046;asciilifeform;( in the mirror example, we get it in the reverse direction, but seems to be that same ~0.5s ! ) 1929746;1566248206;asciilifeform;other folx btw are encouraged to perform similar experiment ; whole thing took me approx 35min of meat time, from revving up heathen pseudo-box to posting link here. 1929747;1566248227;asciilifeform;( of which ~8m spent downloading db snapshot from piz ) 1929748;1566248315;asciilifeform;( the rest -- largely, hand-copying configs ) 1929749;1566248432;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929694 << this is worth expanding on. asciilifeform also gets very fast pings ( never moar than 200msec, to date ) and fast udp. what i suspect is, usg's snoop gear that sits as parasitic toad on south amer's pipe, specifically slows down tcp. 1929750;1566248433;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 16:13:02 BingoBoingo: I remember a thread from last year where trinque saw long pings doing something at the same time MP was enjoying incredibly fast ping to Eulora server 1929751;1566249326;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/200-us-ceos-sign-pantsuit-pledge-declaring-primacy-of-social-and-political-goals-after-other-us-ceo-confirms-usg-malice-pursuing-said-goals/ << Qntra -- 200 US CEOs Sign Pantsuit Pledge Declaring Primacy Of Social And Political Goals After Other US CEO Confirms USG Malice Pursuing Said Goals 1929752;1566250470;BingoBoingo;!!invoice bvt 0.002 Shared Hosting Monthly 1929753;1566250475;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SUH6v/?raw=true 1929754;1566250507;BingoBoingo;!!v 05D3990D06D8604953F6C828348B6956D7C82A6BF7375DC138C40FC84F3712A7 1929755;1566250510;deedbot;Invoiced bvt 0.002 << Shared Hosting Monthly 1929756;1566250528;BingoBoingo;!!invoice diana_coman 0.10429931 Rockchip w/ FUCKGOATS, Annual, Through July 2020 1929757;1566250532;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Uf5wc/?raw=true 1929758;1566250563;BingoBoingo;!!v 0E9B87B89855B52F22131F73CD3112CEB038FAC0F821A59E81B19AB9CB0635FA 1929759;1566250566;deedbot;Invoiced diana_coman 0.10429931 << Rockchip w/ FUCKGOATS, Annual, Through July 2020 1929760;1566250587;BingoBoingo;!!invoice jurov 0.01445328 TBF Colocation August 2019 1929761;1566250591;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/W1gQ3/?raw=true 1929762;1566250631;BingoBoingo;!!v 605B8E12B4D1074B3A8451A03A52D9DE223EAFCCA51DB6B4AE77EBAB9DB1A3B5 1929763;1566250634;deedbot;Invoiced jurov 0.01445328 << TBF Colocation August 2019 1929764;1566250649;BingoBoingo;!!invoice lobbes 0.02894981 Rockchip and Shared Hosting Quarterly 1929765;1566250653;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EIf2i/?raw=true 1929766;1566250683;BingoBoingo;!!v FA9AF8DAE08C5B74E08025B8F0657CFEB8CF38B393BD5D77B2956CEC87B5EAB7 1929767;1566250686;deedbot;Invoiced lobbes 0.02894981 << Rockchip and Shared Hosting Quarterly 1929768;1566250694;BingoBoingo;!!invoice trinque 0.01645328 Colocation + Shared August 2019 1929769;1566250698;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5HYsI/?raw=true 1929770;1566250728;BingoBoingo;!!v F8F948D9C87A8961B10AACDAAA84CAD85170F00682E89051933F7285937831B5 1929771;1566250731;deedbot;Invoiced trinque 0.01645328 << Colocation + Shared August 2019 1929772;1566254562;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929696 << from my chair here in North Carolina Usgistan, my 'real' is 0m0.227s 1929773;1566254562;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 16:37:04 asciilifeform: time curl http://54.209.217.34/log > /dev/null from my chair yields 0.063s. 1929774;1566255029;lobbes;from my EDIS VPS (in Austria iirc) I get 0m0.376s ; from piz rockchip I get 0m0.579s 1929775;1566255873;lobbes;Numbers for the 'heavy log' as follows: NC chair 0m1.055s ; Euro VPS 0m0.971s ; Piz Rkchp 0m1.435s 1929776;1566259288;lobbes;!!v 86AC694AC6B7EB77DB8570DBD1566EB3A30F5D5BFCA6BF47CE01B409A968F55C 1929777;1566260642;lobbes;trinque: ^ I may have been too quick on the draw when deedbot came back online. plox to lemme know if I should re-issue the above !!v 1929778;1566260645;*;lobbes bbl 1929779;1566260819;asciilifeform;ty for the timings lobbes . seems to match up with asciilifeform's and BingoBoingo's pictures 1929780;1566260859;asciilifeform;( i.e. pretty fast connection reich <-> reich ; palpably slower piz <-> reich ) 1929781;1566261385;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo, lobbes , et al : i'ma leave the rubbish box to run until further notice, and give it cron job that eats db from dulap erry day . 1929782;1566261493;asciilifeform;ftr gets ~80kB/s avg. from dulap, there. 1929783;1566261727;asciilifeform;keep in mind that bot will not echo log lines cited from rubbish mirror. it is fit strictly for timing experimentation. 1929784;1566261898;asciilifeform;the 'db snapshot' link nao worx. this box will do duty as an (unauthoritative!) 'fast' mirror of db snapshot also, until someone comes up with better. 1929785;1566261993;asciilifeform;for n00bz : [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/asI9Q/?raw=true][the cron job script] which powers this ; [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9qkiG/?raw=true][the cron job itself] . 1929786;1566262949;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929640][this] remains a mystery. i gotta wonder if there's something peculiar re our routing, which gives this effect. 1929787;1566262949;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 13:52:44 asciilifeform: diana_alt: however, if accessed from localhost on ~public port~ (80) then yes same delay 1929788;1566263327;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: from this pt i'ma follow the prescription mp gave during last 'wai slow' thrd -- leave it alone, there aint much to be done re to speed it up ( as imho conclusively showed that the pipe is to blame ). will move on to other matters ( import of historic logs ; fix of reported catastrophic bugs, incl. the resync of numeration mp asked for ; and then to get back to ffa ! ) 1929789;1566263436;asciilifeform;rly what we oughta have is 7+ ~active~ bots/logotrons on 7 continents, then no one will have to grumble 'wai slow' 1929790;1566263572;asciilifeform;i expect at some pt mp will say to anyone in l1 who aint running a logger, 'партбилет на стол!'(tm)(r) 1929791;1566264411;asciilifeform;btw for thread-completeness, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929697][heavy page] loaded locally on the shitbox consumes avg. of 0.2s. 1929792;1566264412;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 16:38:17 asciilifeform: other folx welcome to try. e.g. the 'heavy page' : curl http://54.209.217.34/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 > /dev/null 1929793;1566264449;asciilifeform;(i.e. all on top of this, is transmission delay from east amerireich, where thing sits.) 1929794;1566264537;asciilifeform;i.e. takes ~0.068s to [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929698][travel the 50km or so to asciilifeform's chair] from said pseudobox. 1929795;1566264538;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 16:38:26 asciilifeform: ... from here eats 0.268s. 1929796;1566264661;asciilifeform;meanwhile, loox like [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/znc2tmsr_etckvvpatch/comment-page-1/#comment-61][lobbes reproduced asciilifeform's orig. observation.] 1929797;1566264725;asciilifeform;^ dulap incidentally performs considerably better , unsurprisingly, than the pseudo-sadmachine, in re actual page generation on local end. 1929798;1566264853;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat. 1929799;1566284074;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/on-relationships-or-how-pretense-kills/ << lobbesblog -- On Relationships or How Pretense Kills 1929800;1566287767;*;spyked quite enjoys reading lobbes' philosophical posts 1929801;1566287801;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929659 <-- PM works for L1 and L2; in-channel is limited to L1. 1929802;1566287801;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 14:20:04 diana_alt: spyked: I don't recall and can't see at http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/081-feedbot-manual.html - is feedbot for L1 only or does it work for anyone with positive ratings or regardless of rating or what? 1929803;1566298542;*;mp_en_viaje waves 1929804;1566298631;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-18#1929619 << nice. 1929805;1566298632;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-18 20:24:30 BingoBoingo: In updates, Povey says he might stop by. 1929806;1566298913;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929636 << was more like "intelligent" router, ftr, but yeah. 1929807;1566298913;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 13:50:01 asciilifeform: diana_alt: fwiw i was not, to date, able to rule out mp's 'overworked pipe' hypothesis . 1929808;1566299014;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929650 << if nothing else, will tell us some things, similar to your point before. mystery delay will de-mystify through usage. 1929809;1566299015;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 14:04:28 asciilifeform: diana_alt: i have plan to move the box to traditional apache, but yet not figured out how to do so w/out unacceptably long disruption of service . 1929810;1566299100;*;mp_en_viaje would like to take the time to point this out re ye olde discussion of "is something to learn / is nothing to learn", coming up oft re gosspid but generally always there. "to learn" is insanely vague an operator. just because you don't learn anything useful [about programming] while doing, say, python, it still dun mean you don't learn anything useful about your girflriend, or the tcp infrastructure, or router hardware, or the difference be 1929811;1566299711;*;mp_en_viaje was going to propose http://trilema.com/2015/the-four-points-of-this-morning-in-color-any-questions/ to the younghands summarization project ; then went over and checked what exactly the pinging article was doing, decided.... best not to. 1929812;1566299768;mp_en_viaje;shrysr, what the heck are you doing, anyways ? 1929813;1566300028;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in ongoing [http://qntra.net/2019/08/impotent-usg-unseals-warrant-for-liberated-iranian-tanker/][cockcaged-usg lulz], http://trilema.com/2012/wikocrisy/#comment-131028 1929814;1566301072;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929777 < this, obviously is the exact complement to the oft-repeated "now that i write article 2, i find article 1 useful ; there was no way to evaluate this utility at the time decision to write article 1 was to be made" re blogwriting. 1929815;1566301072;mp_en_viaje;(amusingly, there was an article i ran into that made the exact point, in a list of four. meanwhile (superficially) reviewed the complete list of trilema articles i looked at this month (on this mchine), >6k lines, did not find it anymore. fuck me. and then of course there's http://trilema.com/2019/pizd-atrage-da-curu-trage-ca-n-viata-tragic/ ) 1929816;1566301072;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 07:47:16 mp_en_viaje: would like to take the time to point this out re ye olde discussion of "is something to learn / is nothing to learn", coming up oft re gosspid but generally always there. "to learn" is insanely vague an operator. just because you don't learn anything useful [about programming] while doing, say, python, it still dun mean you don't learn anything useful about your girflriend, or the tcp infrastructure, or router har 1929817;1566301120;mp_en_viaje;but the important point is, METHODOLOGY. science, not as "the profession" nor as "the professional activity", but as the occupation, science as in, productive, not science as in, socially acceptable -- IS A BEHAVIOUR. that's all it is, applying a method systematically. 1929818;1566301154;mp_en_viaje;meaning that all prediction as to the future is to be based on METHODOLOGICAL considerations. how well the method was applied, and how uniformly, over how homogenous a sample with how good expected coverage. that's all. 1929819;1566301334;mp_en_viaje;"traditional" (no they aren't) heuristic valuations of activity imported from the practices and intellectual habits of the herd of idiots are NOT USEFUL. how "boring" or "interesting" or "[http://trilema.com/2017/the-sexy-problem-formalized/][sexy]" or whatever things seem, truly the on;ly saviour is the method ; which is why trilema can be interesting whatever i discuss, be it defecation or obscure byzantine minutia, whereas the herd of idiots c 1929820;1566301334;mp_en_viaje;an't be interesting even when discussing interesting topics. 1929821;1566302099;mp_en_viaje;[http://trilema.com/2019/black-or-white-the-day-of-saturday/#footnote_0_83878][like for instance] 1929822;1566302165;mp_en_viaje;~any woman'd rather read me write in defense of rape than watch charlie branson-sheen derp about [http://trilema.com/2013/attention-cunt/][like little bois]. the reason is ~THE METHOD~, not the subject, not "oh mp is rich" -- seriously, wtf -- not anything else. 1929823;1566302323;mp_en_viaje;[http://trilema.com/2018/imaginary-questions-nobody-asked-of-me-an-incomplete-compendium/][THE. METHOD.] the one thing that unites "What do you mean how ?" and the reporting "who cares who it damages" and the engineering "who cares what business models/[http://trilema.com/2016/thats-right-time-to-move-on-please-do-bitcoin-is-really-not-for-you/][political arrangements] this renders obsolete" is [http://trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write 1929824;1566302323;mp_en_viaje;-science-on-my-penis-first/?b=Third&e=date.#select][the very substance of science], BECAUSE it is ~the scientific METHOD~. 1929825;1566302393;mp_en_viaje;on the first pass it appears as a complete disinterest in "feelings", but it fundamentally is a method for the valuation of human activity. and therefore complete ethics and a set of morals. co 1929826;1566302736;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929705 << now that's pretty cool. 1929827;1566302737;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 16:52:17 asciilifeform: this experiment also reveals that asciilifeform's logotron will in fact stand up, with no modifications, on a python, flask, pg, etc. plucked out of arbitrary rubbish bin. 1929828;1566302780;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929711 << this is possible if the intercontinental interchange's fucked. which... 1929829;1566302780;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 17:35:50 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hard to say for fact, but seems to add up to a picture where's there's a ~0.5s bottleneck b/w south amer. and errywhere else. 1929830;1566302797;*;mp_en_viaje is too lazy to try and dust off ye olde netcraft toolset an' look 1929831;1566303189;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929757 << certainly seems to go with historical practice 1929832;1566303190;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 21:55:06 asciilifeform: i expect at some pt mp will say to anyone in l1 who aint running a logger, 'партбилет на стол!'(tm)(r) 1929833;1566303259;mp_en_viaje;o look, all caught up. well, ima bbl! 1929834;1566311153;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929795 << the measurements strongly suggest this. 1929835;1566311154;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 08:48:36 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929711 << this is possible if the intercontinental interchange's fucked. which... 1929836;1566311207;asciilifeform;( and, interestingly, specifically fucked re tcp. ) 1929837;1566313830;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929749 << today <50kB/s... 1929838;1566313830;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-19 21:20:26 asciilifeform: ftr gets ~80kB/s avg. from dulap, there. 1929839;1566321618;asciilifeform;in other noose, [https://archive.is/HxMFF][the fella who first described 'endianism'] is dead. 1929840;1566324150;asciilifeform;!!up diana_alt 1929841;1566324160;asciilifeform;hrm no deedbot ?! 1929842;1566324319;asciilifeform;trinque ^ 1929843;1566325347;asciilifeform;meanwhile diana_alt's [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-20#1000406][measurement of mirror load] in #o. 1929844;1566325347;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 14:49:59 diana_alt: asciilifeform: 4 runs of curl http://54.209.217.34/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 > /dev/null give http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1llzt/?raw=true 1929845;1566325415;asciilifeform;( spoiler : rubbish-mirror actually loads slightly faster, from europistan, than phf's orig., for 'heavy page' test ) 1929846;1566325477;asciilifeform;phf's item ftr lives also in usa, somewhere in nyc region 1929847;1566325539;asciilifeform;atm it seems quite impossible even to say which ~generates~ the pgs faster -- the diff, if any, is entirely dwarfed by pipe effects 1929848;1566327112;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in local news, Red Bell Peppers price rises above ground beef price (green bell pepper still priced like produce) https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/el-morron-rojo-llega-a-250-y-el-consumidor-tiene-parte-de-la-culpa-2019816181427 1929849;1566337730;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mp_en_viaje , spyked , et al : http://18.195.64.227/log << copy of 'rubbish mirror', identical (same 'dollar store' pseudo-isp) but this one in frankfurt. try the same timing w/ it. 1929850;1566337848;*;mp_en_viaje is writing an article and then hopping on a plane, but in principle. 1929851;1566337850;asciilifeform;ftr i get ~1.00s ('heavy page' test) from washingtonistan 1929852;1566337905;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje if you've 1s, time curl http://18.195.64.227/log/trilema/2018-04-18#1802801 > /dev/null 1929853;1566337994;mp_en_viaje;116 116 115 109 ms 1929854;1566338003;mp_en_viaje;very reliably .1s-ish 1929855;1566338010;asciilifeform;theeere we go. 1929856;1566338017;asciilifeform;ty mp_en_viaje . 1929857;1566338021;mp_en_viaje;my pleasyre. 1929858;1566338066;mp_en_viaje;course land distance to frankfurt is ~1k km 1929859;1566338099;asciilifeform;# of hops via buggered switches i suspect matters moar than km of fiber 1929860;1566338110;mp_en_viaje;there IS an absolute limit. but, perhaps. 1929861;1566338195;asciilifeform;planet3 is only ~43 light-millisecond in diameter, elementarily 1929862;1566338211;asciilifeform;( granted there aint a fiber through the diameter. but. ) 1929863;1566338543;asciilifeform;the mirrors are identical to the orig ( in re pythonism, nginx, etc ) and in fact considerably slower boxen, and laden with shitlinux ('centos') iirc . geography is the killer, imho satisfactorily proven . 1929864;1566338947;asciilifeform;trinque, still no deedbot?! 1929865;1566341489;bvt;hi, sorry for delay on the linux rng post, it is in fact ~ready, but i need one more day for proofreading 1929866;1566343339;asciilifeform;meanwhile : BingoBoingo rk3328 seems to be back in print ! 50bux for the 4 GB, for 2 GB -- 35. 1929867;1566343350;BingoBoingo;Interesting 1929868;1566343370;BingoBoingo;I suppose we don't yet have an ada for it 1929869;1566343384;asciilifeform;not a properly threaded one 1929870;1566343424;asciilifeform;also worrisome is that http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929804 thing 1929871;1566343425;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 11:52:47 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-19#1929749 << today <50kB/s... 1929872;1566343596;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'm skeptical that we're already outta pipe. but if this persists we will have to actually meter folx. 1929873;1566343651;asciilifeform;( jizzus , per legend, could feed a legion with 2 fish, but even he could not , i suspect, feed legion with 1 unmetered 100M pipe... ) 1929874;1566344674;BingoBoingo;Well 200/20 but everything has its limits 1929875;1566345480;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929767 << tyvm 1929876;1566345481;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 04:38:22 spyked: quite enjoys reading lobbes' philosophical posts 1929877;1566345483;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929816 << on heavy page test, I get the following: NC : 0m1.711s, Austria VPS : 0m0.379s, Piz Rkchp : 0m2.054s 1929878;1566345484;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 18:31:09 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mp_en_viaje , spyked , et al : http://18.195.64.227/log << copy of 'rubbish mirror', identical (same 'dollar store' pseudo-isp) but this one in frankfurt. try the same timing w/ it. 1929879;1566345519;asciilifeform;lobbes: ty. moar or less what i'd expect to see. 1929880;1566345591;asciilifeform;interesting that there's an entire 150ms b/w austria & frankfurt 1929881;1566345621;lobbes;meanwhile, I've been looking at some dedicated server options, primarily for a second trb node on a proper ssd, but I will stand up a 'production' copy of asciilifeform's logotron as well 1929882;1566345626;lobbes;wb deedbot! 1929883;1566345627;asciilifeform;and wb deedbot ! 1929884;1566345644;asciilifeform;lobbes: lemme know if you run into any headache in standing up bot/reader 1929885;1566345650;asciilifeform;imho it's quite straightforward 1929886;1566345694;asciilifeform;lobbes: it aint a very 'hungry' proggy -- e.g. the db presently weighs <70MB 1929887;1566345723;lobbes;will do. yeah, I didn't get the bot portion running on my local test box, nor did I do port forwarding, but the reader.py and database portions were up and running pretty smoothly 1929888;1566345743;lobbes;and by 'didn't get' I mean 'simply didn't attempt' 1929889;1566345749;asciilifeform;( i.e. theoretically might even be faster if one were to sit it down in a sqlite rather than postgres. that is, if there were any actual need to make this thing faster, currently seems that there is not any such need ) 1929890;1566345791;asciilifeform;phuctor for 1st 2y of its life actually lived in a sqlite, and in fact this was faster than pg when data set weighed <1GB 1929891;1566345811;lobbes;my archiver and the original lobbesbot still run on sqlite 1929892;1566345828;lobbes;auctionbot (which sits on the logbot tree) however is postgres 1929893;1566345830;asciilifeform;it's really notbad when entire orchestra is coupla times smaller than available ram 1929894;1566345871;lobbes;really simple to backup the database too when it is just a single 'file'. cron and scp ftw 1929895;1566345879;asciilifeform;i suspect presently that for nearly all installations, the 'limiting reactant' will be pipe bw, rather than cpu, ram, etc 1929896;1566345982;asciilifeform;lobbes: when you stand up bot, make sure to change prefix knob ( both for when you arrange with mp_en_viaje to voice it in #t, but especially in the other chans, where if you fughet to change knob, it will step on the feet of mine ) 1929897;1566345983;mp_en_viaje;in other news, dude lobbes dodged a dependopotamus bullet ? 1929898;1566346007;lobbes;mp_en_viaje: ooyeah. still need to get her out of my damn house though (I'm in an apartment now) 1929899;1566346010;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: iirc he described it at length even before, languished for years with dependopotamus 1929900;1566346042;lobbes;asciilifeform: roger that re: knob 1929901;1566346080;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, if 43 ms in diameter then 135 in circumference ; and moreover information doesn't quite flow at the speed of light in our machines. 1929902;1566346082;lobbes;then I need to sell that damn house. never doing the 'mortgage' thing again. the logs were right (as always) 1929903;1566346084;asciilifeform;lobbes: do you know the old j00 folk tale where http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-06-30#1920764 ? 1929904;1566346084;snsabot;Logged on 2019-06-30 02:02:16 asciilifeform: i suspect it aint the one he has, fwiw, but rather the one in that jewish tale where rabbi tells man 'bring into your house the cow, goat, sheep, then chase'em out sometimes and rejoice in their absence' 1929905;1566346110;mp_en_viaje;bvt, proofreading never hurt anything 1929906;1566346112;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: rright, but not only this, but packet switching is nuffin like straight wire , is monstrously slow vs theoretical 1929907;1566346141;lobbes;asciilifeform: haha no I've never heard. but would read sauce 1929908;1566346173;mp_en_viaje;lobbes, well, worked out better for you than for kako, at least so far. 1929909;1566346186;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/a-little-bit-of-that-old-world-charm-style-grace/ << Trilema -- A little bit of that old world charm, style & grace. 1929910;1566346209;asciilifeform;lobbes: [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FOXk0/?raw=true][one translation] 1929911;1566346224;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: kako had dependopotamus ?! 1929912;1566346226;lobbes;asciilifeform: ty! 1929913;1566346239;mp_en_viaje;afaik. 1929914;1566346251;*;asciilifeform somehow escaped knowing this 1929915;1566346262;mp_en_viaje;some http://trilema.com/2012/the-man-with-the-golden-arm/ -esque story, at any rate. 1929916;1566346285;lobbes;same here. seems to get a lot of folks (wasn't the thickastheives guy in a similar boat?) 1929917;1566346350;mp_en_viaje;no, afaik tha tguy was in same boat as pete_d, where the girl's daddy's the victim and the dude's just... you know, like those little male spiders ? dependopotamus accessories. 1929918;1566346353;asciilifeform;lobbes: i got stuck in an airport 1ce with the thieves fella. he lived under the heel of wife, like saharov. entirely broken man. 1929919;1566346375;lobbes;I'm just very thankful I never got married / had kids; the state being involved would have made this even harder to break free from 1929920;1566346392;asciilifeform;compl. w/ 'i want dog but woman won't let' and the like 1929921;1566346392;lobbes;ah that was the thread I was remembering; the airport one 1929922;1566346410;mp_en_viaje;as per the http://trilema.com/2018/traditional-family-vs-the-harem-a-comparative-study/ dichotomy, one can acquire the useless female either by hunting stupidly or by wife spawning shit. 1929923;1566346480;lobbes;that article, man. It is what set the gears in my head in motion. Read it on a plane flight some years ago and realized I was walking into a trap 1929924;1566346498;asciilifeform;folx who won't train their pets, will end on a leash themselves, noose at 11... 1929925;1566346499;lobbes;I took way too long to act of course, but oh well 1929926;1566346586;asciilifeform;( 'pet!' 'owner!' 'feed me' 'hrm wait aint this backwards' ) 1929927;1566346615;mp_en_viaje;everyone takes too long to act ~retrispectively~. it's part of the same bonus package of fonts as "treason never prospers" 1929928;1566346654;*;lobbes enjoyed that story btw 1929929;1566346676;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: tasty looking foodz btwr 1929930;1566346704;mp_en_viaje;poland does very well in terms of fine dining. 1929931;1566346710;asciilifeform;this is imho underappreciated skill -- not many folx know how to photograph food properly 1929932;1566346715;mp_en_viaje;i suspect it's actually better than france right now. 1929933;1566346903;asciilifeform;also a+++ tripartite beard. 1929934;1566346964;asciilifeform;( recently, asciilifeform's brother : 'know what, mr p could design an os; you can't' a: 'why's that' b: 'he has the beard' ) 1929935;1566347040;asciilifeform;'they're pretty much the only linguistic group very much in danger of mistaking industrial sounds for speech. Careful if you, for instance, use a can of compressed air to clean an old motherboard -- it's entirely possible the resulting vijiieli, indistinct as they may sound to your ear, nevertheless insult the Polish passerby's long dead relatives in the sauciest of manners.' << asciilifeform falls down. 1929936;1566347101;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: relatedly, the trad ru 'ethno-slur' for poles, 'пшеки', is quite a bit like 'пшик', what nominally spray can says. 1929937;1566347127;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, lmao 1929938;1566347147;mp_en_viaje;ON BOTH ENDS 1929939;1566347190;*;asciilifeform can read written pl approx as readily as engl, but to hear'em ~speak~ is other story entirely 1929940;1566347201;mp_en_viaje;oya 1929941;1566347710;asciilifeform;lobbes: i imagine getting rid of dependopotamus must rock, even more than 'expel the cow and the goat' in the chelem tale. suddenly all the surfaces 2x cleaner, the bag o' benjies 'magically' fuller... 1929942;1566347748;*;mp_en_viaje shall bll. 1929943;1566348030;trinque;asciilifeform: your setup with znc + ssl-less ircbot never gets stuck eh? 1929944;1566348043;asciilifeform;trinque: i haven't attempted an under-znc variant of yet 1929945;1566348049;trinque;sorry about the outage y'all; I'm going to do ^ next 1929946;1566348056;asciilifeform;trinque: atm the bot on dulap is 'naked' <-> fleanode 1929947;1566348066;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1929948;1566348067;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 4d 10h 59m 1929949;1566348083;asciilifeform;not yet stuck (or even bumped, other than by my own hand) . 1929950;1566348086;trinque;I had forgotten the email registration part actually, so I guess bot pwd mitm somewhat mitigated by that 1929951;1566348092;trinque;k, has to be the ssl garbage then. 1929952;1566348098;asciilifeform;it will still be annoying, but not fatal 1929953;1566348130;asciilifeform;trinque: atm i can't think of any reason why you couldn't sit it under e.g. znc. (my bot doesn't use any fleanodeisms internally) 1929954;1566348159;asciilifeform;trinque: in yours, tho, iirc there ~is~ such a knob (it waits for a fleanode-specific ack string when connects) 1929955;1566348168;asciilifeform;i was unable to sit pehbot under znc, for this reason 1929956;1566348201;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-01-02#1883860][see thrd re subj] 1929957;1566348201;snsabot;Logged on 2019-01-02 11:38:20 asciilifeform: if one absolutely insists on that feature, prolly Right Thing would be to patch bot so can hang off a znc ( i tried this with own hands, but failed, the existing item is apparently tailored to fleanode-direct connection ) 1929958;1566348381;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929908 << yes, specifically I'm reminded of your tales you told of one salt mine (ascii_butugychag period?) where you could not *think*; this was how it was for me except when *not in the mines*. It is so nice to think again 1929959;1566348382;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 21:17:29 asciilifeform: lobbes: i imagine getting rid of dependopotamus must rock, even more than 'expel the cow and the goat' in the chelem tale. suddenly all the surfaces 2x cleaner, the bag o' benjies 'magically' fuller... 1929960;1566348392;asciilifeform;trinque: as i currently understand, you prolly cannot use exactly same algo in deedbot as in snsabot -- deedbot occasionally has to speak asynchronously. you'll need locking queue (as i think you already have) 1929961;1566348418;asciilifeform;lobbes: in those days could think, more or less, only on the train. 1929962;1566348427;lobbes;ugh 1929963;1566348506;trinque;asciilifeform: will find time this weekend to do the minimal duct tape to keep the thing connected, probably amounts to simply lopping off ssl 1929964;1566348527;asciilifeform;lobbes: but even there, i sat an' read e.g. [https://www.ada-ru.org/V-0.4w/index.html]['programming of hell'], got goin' with ada 1929965;1566348570;asciilifeform;trinque: it is interesting that the ssl thing gets wedged. if i had free hand might even try to find where -- could be a 0day in there, potentially 1929966;1566348631;trinque;asciilifeform: not even just here; I wrote some production services elsewhere in sbcl, used cl+ssl as dep, same wedging 1929967;1566348641;asciilifeform;it's entirely conceivable tho that the wedge is on acct of a http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-20#1000423 ! 1929968;1566348642;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 15:01:22 asciilifeform: atm i vaguely suspect that tcp on piz is slowed by an inept wiretap somewhere. 1929969;1566348674;trinque;heh, in the environment in which these ran, the mitm comes standard 1929970;1566348690;trinque;motherinthemiddle 1929971;1566348719;asciilifeform;rright. wedge could easily be happening on acct of some idjit perl running on a crab usg clamped to cable in bermuda triangle... 1929972;1566348974;trinque;lobbes: you know, mircea_popescu asked me this when I told a similar tale of misbehaving woman wrecking the home. 1929973;1566348993;trinque;now I'll turn it your direction. ever told her no before the exchange in your post? 1929974;1566350732;lobbes;trinque: very rarely, and honestly I "caved in" way too often 1929975;1566350761;lobbes;like asciilifeform said, "if you don't leash pet, it will leash you". and it happened 1929976;1566350882;lobbes;we were together 8 years, mind. Living together for 7 of those 8, which made me ~23 when we got together. I was even dumber then, and the bad habits were engrained long before I got a clue 1929977;1566351049;lobbes;s/engrain/ingrain 1929978;1566352522;trinque;don't even think I was calling you stupid. 1929979;1566352592;trinque;just pointing out that when you start telling 'em what, could possibly even have a *happy and productive* home 1929980;1566352618;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543393 1929981;1566352618;a111;Logged on 2016-09-17 02:55 mircea_popescu: trinque fancy that, you had to have someone tell you! nature teaches by example, you stick more data into woman each time than you ever did into all machines you ever touched. yet... 1929982;1566352627;trinque;ermergerd. 1929983;1566352643;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-09-16#1543388 1929984;1566352643;snsabot;Logged on 2016-09-16 22:54:18 trinque: BingoBoingo: aha, in fact there was a thread where mircea_popescu explained that y'know, you teach the women things 1929985;1566352673;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-09-16#1543393 << more to the point. 1929986;1566352674;snsabot;Logged on 2016-09-16 22:55:19 mircea_popescu: trinque fancy that, you had to have someone tell you! nature teaches by example, you stick more data into woman each time than you ever did into all machines you ever touched. yet... 1929987;1566353106;lobbes;this is a point indeed (btw no worries earlier; I was calling myself dumb if anything haha) 1929988;1566353109;lobbes;but it is true that I was also failing *her* by not taking the reigns as I should have. The next girls, however, will be taught properly. 1929989;1566353210;trinque;I think more like "continuous discourse about things which are not stupid" and the rest flows from that 1929990;1566353407;lobbes;this makes sense. But in order for this to happen I know I'll first need to be able to reliably identify things that are/are not stupid. Which, I'm getting better at each day, so there is that. Time is the key I guess 1929991;1566353445;lobbes;and keeping off of the ol' ass, of course 1929992;1566354109;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929847 << btw I checked this to be sure, and looks like EDIS moved my 'node' some time ago. No longer in Austria as I thought but instead in Switzerland. Plox to s/Austria/Switzerland on all past timing reports. 1929993;1566354110;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 20:42:10 asciilifeform: interesting that there's an entire 150ms b/w austria & frankfurt 1929994;1566354117;lobbes;still, roughly the same difference in distance give or take 1929995;1566357400;asciilifeform;lobbes: presently seems to me that 'distance' such as exists on net, corresponds moar closely to '# of hops through nsa cisco' rather than naive 'km of fiber'. 1929996;1566357485;asciilifeform;( often enuff there's a concealed -- if not always well-concealed -- roundtrip to london / washington, sitting in 'between austria and switzerland' etc ) 1929997;1566357567;asciilifeform;clitler's magick wand, see, cannot alter phys. constants... 1929998;1566357604;asciilifeform;( can't even make their shitware snoop in ~realtime, moreover ) 1929999;1566357681;asciilifeform;in olden times, when they at least had shame, would tape deck in the very undersea capsule and retrieve with sub. today -- this , instead. 1930000;1566361038;asciilifeform;imho would be interesting to formally map out these 'mystery' delays. 1930001;1566361082;asciilifeform;draw -- map. 'why is vienna <-> zurich , apparently as far as moon' etc 1930002;1566371159;spyked;asciilifeform, re [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929816][curl timings]: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3N0nO/?raw=true from bucharest, rcs-rds 1930003;1566371159;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 18:31:09 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mp_en_viaje , spyked , et al : http://18.195.64.227/log << copy of 'rubbish mirror', identical (same 'dollar store' pseudo-isp) but this one in frankfurt. try the same timing w/ it. 1930004;1566398092;asciilifeform;ty spyked 1930005;1566398166;asciilifeform;similarly to 'vianna <-> zurich', this also imho slightly laggier than ordinary globe would suggest 1930006;1566399040;diana_alt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-21#1929962 - yesterday I ran a traceroute on both (nosuchlabs and btcbase) and it was going via stockholm+london for btcbase but not for nosuchlabs (iirc it was riga and then s.america) 1930007;1566399041;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-21 00:00:24 asciilifeform: ( often enuff there's a concealed -- if not always well-concealed -- roundtrip to london / washington, sitting in 'between austria and switzerland' etc ) 1930008;1566401119;asciilifeform;hrm mebbe my globe is upside-down, but i can't easily picture how cable can run from riga to south a. direct.. 1930009;1566401158;asciilifeform;i suppose theoretically -- could. but wai. 1930010;1566401226;asciilifeform;last i knew there were 0 direct lines from south a. to europistan, at all. 1930011;1566401324;asciilifeform;[https://www.submarinecablemap.com/][one heathen source (by no less than 'huawei'!1) claims -- that indeed are.] 1930012;1566401434;asciilifeform;tho, quite unsurprisingly, does not claim that any intercontinental makes landfall in riga (cuz wtf) 1930013;1566401550;asciilifeform;'traceroute' is of pretty limited use for this sorta thing, it will only reveal hops which behave as traditional ip switch 1930014;1566401624;asciilifeform;( i.e. rather than silently forwarding packets over atm or whatever antediluvian horror ) 1930015;1566404659;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://ella.link/ 1930016;1566404779;BingoBoingo;There's also the older "Atlantis 2" which goes Fortaleza Brasil, Senega, the splits to land in Spain and Portugal 1930017;1566405224;asciilifeform;a. 1930018;1566405273;asciilifeform;spain, portugal tho. rather than riga. 1930019;1566405877;BingoBoingo;Also a couple newer one that go from Fortaleza to different places in Africa 1930020;1566405892;BingoBoingo;Angola and Cameroon 1930021;1566409226;asciilifeform;maybe i'm thick, but what the fuck do angola and cameroon need net connections for ?! 1930022;1566409277;asciilifeform;why not also run fiber to the penguins in south p. i suspect they can just as easily pay. 1930023;1566409359;BingoBoingo;Well, they need to be oppressed through something 1930024;1566409397;asciilifeform;they can watch miami-vision via sat dish like erry other sad orc. 1930025;1566409492;asciilifeform;betcha there's some convoluted reason asciilifeform would never in 9000 yrs guess at, for fiber-to-africa 1930026;1566409505;asciilifeform;maybe some living fossil, french colonial fort. 1930027;1566409551;asciilifeform;or usg drone base, etc. 1930028;1566412530;BingoBoingo;Well, Chinese colonial efforts in Africa are ongoing. 1930029;1566412772;BingoBoingo;And as far as I can tell, USG to USG drones is the only actual satellite internet 1930030;1566412816;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: they like to fiber most of the way to destination (for obv. reason) 1930031;1566420000;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/italian-left-right-coalition-government-collapses/ << Qntra -- Italian Left-Right Coalition Government Collapses 1930032;1566420600;asciilifeform;meanwhile... 'random log button' yields [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-12-28#1592224][a historic lulzthread] . 1930033;1566420600;snsabot;Logged on 2016-12-28 16:44:23 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592214 << entirely possible folx weren't aware of phuctor, it's not exactly advertised much. (then again, cue mp's "they don't have a right/privilege not to be aware"..) 1930034;1566421119;asciilifeform;... and [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-12-30#1593827][moar] lul 1930035;1566421120;snsabot;Logged on 2016-12-30 13:34:00 phf: true, but alf also "won't touch the web" 1930036;1566425132;BingoBoingo;In local weather, Mujica's wife will be acting president tomorrow for some hours while doctors poke current president's lungs with scopes and radiation 1930037;1566425465;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/bits-and-pieces-of-linux-rng/ << bvt's backtrace -- Bits and pieces of Linux RNG 1930038;1566425486;asciilifeform;oh hey 1930039;1566425730;asciilifeform;holyFUCK the sheer fecal mass. 1930040;1566431204;BingoBoingo;re: fonix http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929903 I finally discovered that down here "sour cream" is "Queso Crema: Talercrem" 1930041;1566431205;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 21:07:20 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: relatedly, the trad ru 'ethno-slur' for poles, 'пшеки', is quite a bit like 'пшик', what nominally spray can says. 1930042;1566434110;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/us-army-officer-found-not-builty-by-reason-of-insanity-in-joyriding-case/ << Qntra -- US Army Officer Found Not Builty By Reason Of Insanity In JOYRIDING Case 1930043;1566441621;mircea_popescu;ahhh 1930044;1566441644;*;mircea_popescu is back to civilisation, somewhat. 1930045;1566441662;mircea_popescu;lemme retrospectively confirm mp_en_viaje was actually indeed me, an' carry on. 1930046;1566442674;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929937 << keks. 1930047;1566442674;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 21:33:49 trinque: motherinthemiddle 1930048;1566442692;mircea_popescu;i'm starting to suspect the actual market for gangbang porn is really ~diane keaton 1930049;1566442794;*;asciilifeform waves to mircea_popescu 1930050;1566442801;asciilifeform;can't resist to ask, what counts as 'civilization' 1930051;1566442808;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929950 < it helps immensely if the woman can actually respect you, though. 1930052;1566442808;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 22:39:42 snsabot: Logged on 2016-09-16 22:54:18 trinque: BingoBoingo: aha, in fact there was a thread where mircea_popescu explained that y'know, you teach the women things 1930053;1566442849;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, well, place with moar infrastructure so i can sit as mircea_popescu and not have http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926259 problem 1930054;1566442850;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-08 16:13:35 mircea_popescu: do you realise every time i do a keyop it's ~half hour of slavegirl time going blind on asciisoup ? 1930055;1566442856;asciilifeform;a. 1930056;1566442861;mircea_popescu;this is in fact the definition, jungle as above, camp as in, <1minute. 1930057;1566443866;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-20#1929954 << there's certainly substance to that "also failing her" portion. 1930058;1566443866;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-20 22:47:29 lobbes: but it is true that I was also failing *her* by not taking the reigns as I should have. The next girls, however, will be taught properly. 1930059;1566444622;lobbes;wb to somewhat-civilisation mircea_popescu 1930060;1566444624;lobbes;in other news, I'm in the process of provisioning a dedi server (for primarily a second trb node). I grabbed one with 2 512GB SSD drives. Now my question is: should I bother with RAID 1? Or will this just be stupid because they will wear at the same rate? 1930061;1566444671;mircea_popescu;raid was immensely useful for the older drives. with ssds its' not clear you gain so much in either speed or reliability 1930062;1566444686;mircea_popescu;in any case, there's not much point to two disk raid arrays ; nor to software raid. 1930063;1566444764;lobbes;sounds reasonable to me. aite, I'ma tell em' no raid I think 1930064;1566444820;lobbes;once this thing is up I'll probably be asking in #a (unless #mod6 still lives?) about doing a 'hot-start' with trb 1930065;1566444833;lobbes;will also spin up a copy of alf's logger 1930066;1566444962;mircea_popescu;bvt 's story of linux kernel retardation is eyewatering. 1930067;1566444989;mircea_popescu;could you simply throw out the whole damn thing and replace with from-scratch random.c / h ? 1930068;1566446558;mircea_popescu;in any case it is obvious that using it as intended (ie, pretending fg is what the linuxtards call a "hardware random generator") is ~wasting it. i dun wanna initialize the middle 32 bytes out of anything. 1930069;1566446596;mircea_popescu;incidentally, the fucking notion of a byte-counted entropy pool is fucking ridiculous. 1930070;1566446627;mircea_popescu;considering the keys we use are 4kb, it seems reasonable we should keep entropy pools of no less than 16kb ? 1930071;1566446732;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nao you know why i skipped the ' feed linux random ' stack entirely in '16. ( admittedly didn't get even half as far as bvt before barfed ) 1930072;1566446748;mircea_popescu;he did a pretty good job dissecting, imo 1930073;1566446760;asciilifeform;indeed 1930074;1566446778;asciilifeform;a++ pathologoanatomy 1930075;1566447117;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930027 << i run (iron) raid w/ ssd, but must point out, i rotate'em 1930076;1566447118;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 00:13:36 mircea_popescu: raid was immensely useful for the older drives. with ssds its' not clear you gain so much in either speed or reliability 1930077;1566447140;mircea_popescu;and 4 ? or 6 ? 1930078;1566447161;asciilifeform;( i.e. prophylactically pull one erry yr or so and insert fresh replacement ) 1930079;1566447174;asciilifeform;4 is the min. that makes any sense 1930080;1566447205;mircea_popescu;quite. 1930081;1566447255;asciilifeform;algo -- simple, you pull the 1 that a) has nonzero write failure counter, or if none such, b) the one with highest blocks-written count . 1930082;1566447432;asciilifeform;important point also -- ssd in raid never wins, only loses speed 1930083;1566447465;asciilifeform;'gain speed' applied strictly to mech hdd, they could be spun out of phase, i.e. cut seek time 1930084;1566447484;asciilifeform;seek on ssd already ~0. 1930085;1566447738;asciilifeform;1tb ssd btw ~100bux nao. keep pile of spares, and dun hesitate to rotate prophylactically, they're a consumable. 1930086;1566447811;asciilifeform;decent card ( 3ware, more or less it ) means you can swap w/out switching off machine. 1930087;1566447944;asciilifeform;to where retire ssd? if still 'worx', e.g. trb node. lappies. if end of life ? stoke furnace. ( see mircea_popescu's piece with furnace. ) 1930088;1566460967;spyked;grrrr, this is annoying. ftr, I set the delay knob for feedbot msg delivery to 2 seconds and it still gets disconnected for some reason. I suspect it's something other than fleanode simply disconnecting, so I will ask users who are waiting on pending PMs from feedbot to bear with me for a while. 1930089;1566463087;spyked;I think I caught the bug. will fix by the end of the day and bring teh rss bot back up. 1930090;1566468419;mircea_popescu;could also say what it was neh ? 1930091;1566469072;mircea_popescu;o hai bimbo! 1930092;1566469174;nicoleci;mircea_popescu, helllo :) 1930093;1566469174;lobbesbot;nicoleci: Sent 3 weeks, 4 days, 2 hours, and 34 minutes ago: State of Florida Vs. Ruby McCollum, Defendant by C. Arthur Ellis << download this 1930094;1566469175;lobbesbot;nicoleci: Sent 3 weeks, 3 days, 14 hours, and 48 minutes ago: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4Ug9B/?raw=true 1930095;1566469201;mircea_popescu;spyked, feed bot quit on me again lol 1930096;1566471397;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, got 1 for you : $ time curl http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-10-12#1861054 > real 0m24.902s user0m0.011s 1930097;1566471398;snsabot;Logged on 2018-10-12 12:56:05 mircea_popescu: in the 1980s engineers / cstronicists' defense, it was not yet understood how important entropy is to individuality and human existence. 1930098;1566471886;spyked;mircea_popescu, meanwhile I found it wasn't the issue I initially thought! I'ma bring the bot back online shortly 1930099;1566471892;mircea_popescu;kk 1930100;1566472075;spyked;to detail: trinque's bot has a thread that pings the irc server and does lag tracking (the lag then is: pong_response_timestamp - ping_sent_timestamp); if it detects that the lag is high, then it tries to reconnect. so when feedbot spends a lot of time in the notification loop, it doesn't receive the pong and gets disconnected. 1930101;1566472147;mircea_popescu;oh 1930102;1566472154;mircea_popescu;this is bad design!! 1930103;1566472195;spyked;the fix I'm currently applying is to have feedbot send notifications in short bursts so that it doesn't take over the main program loop 1930104;1566472252;mircea_popescu;why doesnt the main program loop call the sender thing ONCE AT A TIME ? 1930105;1566472352;mircea_popescu;can't, in general speaking, when plumbing the synch-asynch divide (such as for instance tryuibng to resolve through design the impedance mismatch between non-threqaded process and synchonous messaging) commit to any activity of an open-ended length. main loop gotta know at least approximately how long each call will take, or else it can't make them 1930106;1566472419;spyked;mircea_popescu, for PM notifications, the sender is called only when the target nick is online; to find out whether a nick is connected, it sends an ISON and waits for a reply; and on the reply handler, it (until now) tried to process the entire message queue for that nick, which... yeah, that's a really bad idea. 1930107;1566472431;mircea_popescu;yeah ok 1930108;1566472641;spyked;the downside is that now messages are going to arrive somewhat slower -- ISONs aren't sent too often, so as to not abuse that command; but probably not that much of a problem either way. if a user was offline for a while, then he can wait the extra minutes to receive the messages. 1930109;1566472655;mircea_popescu;aha 1930110;1566478450;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/truth-or-dare-in-bed-with-madonna/ << Trilema -- Truth or Dare (in bed with Madonna) 1930111;1566483752;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930062 << 4.1s here (1.3 if curl -H "Accept-Encoding: gzip" , weighs 256k naked, 58 w/ gzip ) 1930112;1566483753;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 07:39:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, got 1 for you : $ time curl http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-10-12#1861054 > real 0m24.902s user0m0.011s 1930113;1566483801;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what do you get when http://18.195.64.227/log/trilema/2018-10-12#1861054 ? 1930114;1566483967;asciilifeform;ftr , on dulap itself : time curl http://127.0.0.1:5002/log/trilema/2018-10-12 > /dev/null yields 0.161s . 1930115;1566483990;asciilifeform;( i.e. how long takes to actually birth that page ) 1930116;1566484084;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 256 / 24.092 ~= 10.3 kB/s !! do you consistently get ~10kB/s from piz ?! 1930117;1566484202;*;asciilifeform in gui browser with cleared cache -- consistently gets the expected 1.3s for that page here. 1930118;1566484437;mircea_popescu;.441 s 1930119;1566484449;mircea_popescu;400-ish anyways 1930120;1566484455;asciilifeform;this from frankfurt ? 1930121;1566484464;mircea_popescu;the 18. a class you quited yes 1930122;1566484471;asciilifeform;aha, frankfurt copy 1930123;1566487680;asciilifeform;* deedbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) << trinque ?? 1930124;1566488022;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930071 << the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-11#1927712][swedes] had a model of programming which asciilifeform always wanted to steal, which was especially good fit for cases like this -- '9000' ultralight threads with ~0 spawn/die penalty, if you wanted to wait for an event, could spawn thread that does nuffin but ( and in turn if times out sends correct signal to 1930125;1566488022;asciilifeform;parent ) etc. 1930126;1566488022;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 07:54:59 mircea_popescu: can't, in general speaking, when plumbing the synch-asynch divide (such as for instance tryuibng to resolve through design the impedance mismatch between non-threqaded process and synchonous messaging) commit to any activity of an open-ended length. main loop gotta know at least approximately how long each call will take, or else it can't make them 1930127;1566488023;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-11 20:36:42 asciilifeform: looked even at [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-30#1634714][ancient rusty 'five nines' behemoths that apparently work] , for potential dusting off a la gnat. 1930128;1566488178;*;asciilifeform actually has working copy of that compiler, 'erlang' , from 2000s (i.e. before the webtards got to 'improving' it) if anyone at some pt wants to experiment with this particular sunken uboat 1930129;1566488220;asciilifeform;imho would be 9000x better to simply steal the technique and port to e.g. cmucl . 1930130;1566488241;mircea_popescu;this is the first time i hear of some actually useful lisp improvement 1930131;1566488244;asciilifeform;( 'erlang' has a pretty martian syntax that most folx who didn't program in 'ml' or similar , dun have the digestive enzymes for ) 1930132;1566488256;mircea_popescu;logically, it'd be exactly the sort of spitshine fit for its shoes. 1930133;1566488262;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've a pile of'em in notebook, but generally dun like to throw in unless pertinent to thrd 1930134;1566488269;mircea_popescu;makes sense 1930135;1566488279;mircea_popescu;but yes, functional language should be able to get closest to your 0 penalty. 1930136;1566488300;asciilifeform;'erlang' was ultra-fascist 'functional' , i.e. even to make variable in the usual sense is difficult 1930137;1566488378;asciilifeform;author (one armstrong, recently dead) sewed it by taking various fp langs of the time, and mercilessly cutting cpu-expensive features (e.g. the infamous np-complete reductor of prolog, the 'lazy' of haskell, etc) 1930138;1566488550;asciilifeform;by this merciless slicing, he was able to make so that almost entire state of a program is reducible to 'which threads are alive', and thus was able to achieve [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-30#1634769][interesting results] 1930139;1566488551;snsabot;Logged on 2017-03-30 10:50:38 asciilifeform: trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked 1930140;1566488566;mircea_popescu;aha 1930141;1566488723;asciilifeform;phunphakt -- ericsson at one pt sacked him and [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928543][ordered their pbx rewritten in cpp]. and nearly tanked, had to beg him to come back. 1930142;1566488724;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 10:43:52 asciilifeform: both, however, occasionally forced to make 'unprincipled exception', cuz the set of what can be done by deskilled monkey with 'cluck' tool is never 100% . 1930143;1566489009;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930066 << ftr i've yet to observe this 'silent wedge' effect in my bot (i.e. where the tcp pipe is 'alive' but not doing anyffin useful). tbf it is, what, only 3rd week of this bot. 1930144;1566489009;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 07:50:22 spyked: to detail: trinque's bot has a thread that pings the irc server and does lag tracking (the lag then is: pong_response_timestamp - ping_sent_timestamp); if it detects that the lag is high, then it tries to reconnect. so when feedbot spends a lot of time in the notification loop, it doesn't receive the pong and gets disconnected. 1930145;1566489154;asciilifeform;spyked: mine disconnects strictly when a send() or recv() actually return eggog (i.e. indicating dead tcp pipe) 1930146;1566489219;asciilifeform;if the 'silent wedge' effect actually exists (rather than , say, an artifact of trinque's async mechanisms) i expect it will eventually be found to wedge 1930147;1566489239;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1930148;1566489239;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 6d 2h 12m 1930149;1566489245;asciilifeform;^ thus far only planned resets . 1930150;1566489511;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i keep coming back in my notes to the swedes, simply b/c in their notation, a 'bulletproof' net of mutually-synchronized bots is suddenly ~trivial. 1930151;1566489544;mircea_popescu;aha. 1930152;1566489800;asciilifeform;( for the curious : 'erlang' had 0 'shared memory' b/w threads. all inter-thread motion was in the form of messages (received in 'atomic' queues internally). these could consist of whatever -- symbols (a la lisp) , for simple 'a/b/c' cases ; strings of bits; etc. a message could be eaten, or forwarded to yet another thread, or even sent back to the sender. ) 1930153;1566491633;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930032 << to return to this : when asciilifeform laid out the (~8 y.o.!) kernel , to bake the [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3420#selection-185.0-187.36]['demo' image for 'M'] , found that ~whole thing~ is written in this style. ( last dealt with kernel internals at length in '06-07, when wasn't ~quite~ this nauseating . or perhaps my stomach were stronger..? ) 1930154;1566491633;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 00:18:27 mircea_popescu: bvt 's story of linux kernel retardation is eyewatering. 1930155;1566491657;mircea_popescu;"open source" 1930156;1566491691;asciilifeform;open sores. 1930157;1566492028;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930033 << naively seems to asciilifeform that whole thing oughta be replaced with a single ring buffer, where 1) root can write 2) users can read (w/ settable max byte/sec quota/ea. perhaps) 3) erry read consumes a segment of the buffer, i.e. no 2 users get same chunk of FG tape 4) if buffer empties, machine goes into single-user mode and rings alarm . 1930158;1566492028;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 00:18:54 mircea_popescu: could you simply throw out the whole damn thing and replace with from-scratch random.c / h ? 1930159;1566492058;mircea_popescu;nah, pretty sure you need two, to protect self from attrition attack 1930160;1566492076;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: elaborate ? 1930161;1566492173;asciilifeform;( what means here 'attrition' ? and for what is the 2nd buffer ? ) 1930162;1566492182;mircea_popescu;imo correct design is 16kb to cpu-cache-sized inner ring buffer, wherein fg material is simply written into a loop, plain ; and from where high quality entropy is read blockingly. whenever the writing head threatens to overwrite the reading head, the overwritten bits are instead fed into outer ring 1930163;1566492214;mircea_popescu;this outer ring should use two cprngs to stretch the flow-in, one fast and one good. 1930164;1566492242;mircea_popescu;such that the outer ring is always full, and the inner ring is always good. 1930165;1566492263;mircea_popescu;is this comprehensible ? 1930166;1566492276;asciilifeform;the 1st half of this , i get, is same as what i sketched. but for what is the outer buf ? seems like a single ring of same length as the 2, gives same effect ? 1930167;1566492305;mircea_popescu;no, it's not the same length, for one thing. 2nd buffer should be mb or larger ; and it gives the effect that there's an always-full entropy buffer 1930168;1566492328;mircea_popescu;let me formalize this, 1sec. 1930169;1566492742;mircea_popescu;ring buffers : Inner (small, 16kb to cpu-cache-size) ; Outer (large, 1 MB to swap partition size). each buffer has a writing head moving around it and a reading head moving around it, their position is W and R at any time. 1930170;1566492742;mircea_popescu;hash functions : Fast (takes one byte, produces many bytes), Good (takes one byte, produces one byte). 1930171;1566492742;mircea_popescu;the operation then consists of : 1. FG -> I.W 2. if I.W = I.R, I.R -> O.W, such that if O.R >= O.W/2, next O.W goes through HF filling many offset bytes ; if O.R <= O.W/2, next OW goes through HG, filling one offset byte. 1930172;1566492743;mircea_popescu;this way - O is "always full" from the pov of userland ; I is protected from userland reading O. 1930173;1566492810;mircea_popescu;such that it can't either deplete the machine entropy by reading mb/s nor can it figure out the internals by reading straight fg bytes 1930174;1566492811;asciilifeform;you still gotta rate-limit the users' reads tho, or 1 could empty whole thing in burst, starving the rest, neh 1930175;1566492824;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, neh, hence the many. 1930176;1566492837;mircea_popescu;that's why i say o is up to swap size. ti should be large enough to not be emptyable. 1930177;1566492888;asciilifeform;possibly i'm thick, but what happens if particular user requests continuously ? 1930178;1566492896;mircea_popescu;then the buffer cycles continuously. 1930179;1566492928;asciilifeform;1 FG gives ~7.5kB/s . it isn't difficult to read , from buffer, GB/s 1930180;1566492930;mircea_popescu;HF "many" setting could in principle be 1 byte -> buffer size 1930181;1566492956;asciilifeform;or is the idea that there's a per-user buffer which actually contains his ration, and reads block on ~that~ ? 1930182;1566492960;mircea_popescu;nope. 1930183;1566492966;mircea_popescu;O reads do not block. 1930184;1566493069;asciilifeform;then i'm defo thick. let's work example ? machine booted up 5min ago. ergo primary FG buffer contains ~2MB. now i'ma a user, and i ask for dd if=/dev/random of=foo bs=1M count=3 , i.e. 3MB. nao what ? 1930185;1566493184;mircea_popescu;but use my formalisms. so what, I is 16kb and O is 2mb ? 1930186;1566493231;mircea_popescu;user asks for say 1gb, O feeds 1mb, at which point reading head is more than halfway writing head, so HF gets called, and fills the half that was just read 1930187;1566493254;asciilifeform;same 'thermodynamic' problem , no matter how the output of FG is massaged, tho. if proggies ask for moar FG bits than FG has actually produced, they gotta block. ( linus fraudulently gave folx shitropy instead of entropy, so 'not block', but imho that's not even worth to discuss ) 1930188;1566493270;mircea_popescu;this cycle can continue until 1GB is pissed out. if any FG bytes make it in during the interval, they are the source for the writing, stretched by HF. if not, whatever, HG applies on already read bytes 1930189;1566493285;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, only applicable re I. O, never blocks, because H. 1930190;1566493316;mircea_popescu;whicjh is even tje point of having both rings. 1930191;1566493318;asciilifeform;so, in mircea_popescu's model, i asked for 3MB, while FG has only produced yet 2MB. what do i get ? 1930192;1566493333;mircea_popescu;i can not tell you, because you do not read. 1930193;1566493345;asciilifeform;i.e. eggog ? 1930194;1566493352;mircea_popescu;dude, I JUST EXPLAINED IT ABOVE 1930195;1566493360;mircea_popescu;read that, don't ask me to type it again, wth. 1930196;1566493446;asciilifeform;i'm stumped on what 'can not tell you, because you do not read' means in physical terms. 1930197;1566493482;mircea_popescu;you, stanislav, asked "where is the shop". i told you "go this and therefore" and you came back with "but where is the shop". at this point, this question can not be answered, BECAUSE YOU, STANISLAV, DO NOT READ. 1930198;1566493559;*;asciilifeform officially stumped re how to convert mircea_popescu's formalism into program. perhaps bvt will crack this nut ? presently it eludes me. 1930199;1566493574;mircea_popescu;but let's try it again. so, the I buffer is 16 kb, the O buffer is 2 MB. if the FG spits out 8kb/s or so, then the I buffer spits about 8kb/s or so into O, after the first two seconds, 1930200;1566493592;mircea_popescu;now, the O buffer is, say, 2mb. if someone decides to read 1GB/s out of it, 1930201;1566493610;mircea_popescu;then in the first ms, the R head of O will have moved halway towards the W head of it. 1930202;1566493639;mircea_popescu;at this point, the HF (fast hash) will take one byte out of the next position of the R head, and produce MANY (ie, 1mb) worth of O filler from it. 1930203;1566493646;mircea_popescu;thus replenishing what was read. 1930204;1566493666;asciilifeform;ah so users who read moar than the available ration, get prngism?! 1930205;1566493679;mircea_popescu;if that one byte is not yet available, from I, then the HG (good hash) will take half the O that was already read, and replenish it 1930206;1566493688;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, users who read O, get prng 1930207;1566493694;asciilifeform;aaa. 1930208;1566493706;mircea_popescu;in exchange, they get non blocking "entropy" reads. 1930209;1566493708;asciilifeform;ok then makes sense. 1930210;1566493712;mircea_popescu;yay. 1930211;1566493741;mircea_popescu;that's why the two-hash system : you either have a byte of FG, to put into O, or you don't. 1930212;1566493748;asciilifeform;seems to spec a somewhat diff item than originally contemplated tho ( where all userland proggies are guaranteed to get, if slowly, actual unique FG bits ) 1930213;1566493754;mircea_popescu;if you do, you stretch it into a "many" bytes. if you don't, you just prng those many bytes. 1930214;1566493767;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, they are allowed to read I. that blocks. 1930215;1566493777;mircea_popescu;entirely userland option. 1930216;1566493786;asciilifeform;ok so the classical pair of 'random vs urandom' devs ? 1930217;1566493790;mircea_popescu;exactly. 1930218;1566493804;asciilifeform;then makes sense. i had missed 'stretched by...' when 1st reading. 1930219;1566493810;mircea_popescu;right ? 1930220;1566493820;mircea_popescu;now, the magic numbers are only here by need of example. 1930221;1566493828;asciilifeform;ftr this is how i formerly thought the existing linux worked. 1930222;1566493844;mircea_popescu;if indeed a stretch of say 8:1 is preferred, HF takes 1 byte makes 8, then the HG will work on 8byte buffers, take 8 bytes make 8 byres. 1930223;1566493851;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, this is how linux should have worked. 1930224;1566493893;mircea_popescu;anyway, exactly what stretch factor to use is a bit of an open question. may be worth it to permit the thing to self-adjust, based on O read volume. 1930225;1566493920;asciilifeform;it seems like the obv. Right Thing. i.e. let tetris read from urandom, rsatron -- from random, etc. 1930226;1566493931;mircea_popescu;though this comes at cost of complexity. imo only correct approach is to have this set ~at kernel compile~, and there it stays. if you declare I 16kb and O 2mb, then therefore your stretch factor is 256 1930227;1566493971;mircea_popescu;nothing prohibits proggy reading 2mb ring buffer at gb/s speeds. it'll get... well, a lotta hashmaterial. 1930228;1566493982;mircea_popescu;which is imo exaclty right. 1930229;1566494022;*;asciilifeform contemplates what a bvt-style dissection of the current 'urandom' might reveal. 1930230;1566494042;mircea_popescu;heh. 1930231;1566494063;asciilifeform;oh hrm actually he does have a segment re subj 1930232;1566494108;*;asciilifeform not yet eaten all of bvt's piece 1930233;1566499815;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/philadelphia-home-defender-who-shot-6-cops-allegedly-federal-snitch-violence-likely-intrausg-dispute/ << Qntra -- Philadelphia Home Defender Who Shot 6 Cops Allegedly Federal Snitch, Violence Likely IntraUSG Dispute 1930234;1566500351;BingoBoingo;^ In emergent lulz 1930235;1566500362;mircea_popescu;oya 1930236;1566503533;lobbes;http://qntra.net/2019/08/us-army-officer-found-not-builty-by-reason-of-insanity-in-joyriding-case/ << BingoBoingo: s/Builty/Guilty 1930237;1566503599;BingoBoingo;lobbes: ty, fxd 1930238;1566518179;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG lobbes et al : the #e archive created earlier by lobbes , is now imported into http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora . as usual plox to report any oddities . 1930239;1566518213;asciilifeform;they are marked as 'era 2' in the db (#e has no 'era 1') . 1930240;1566518461;asciilifeform;orcograms appear to [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2016-12-06#931091][render 100% correctly] . 1930241;1566518461;snsabot;Logged on 2016-12-06 08:51:15 mircea_popescu: !~calc 137×999*1.52*2 1930242;1566518484;asciilifeform;ty for the converter fixes and archive, lobbes . 1930243;1566518602;asciilifeform;hrm, correctly but with [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2018-09-03#990941][exception of certain spam] lol 1930244;1566518602;snsabot;Logged on 2018-09-03 17:59:44 c111: Alⅼah ⅰs doing 1930245;1566518635;asciilifeform;( possibly only on my console ? nfi ) 1930246;1566518699;asciilifeform;some spam [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2018-08-12#987244][dun show up at all] 1930247;1566518700;snsabot;Logged on 2018-08-12 22:39:55 elky: 1930248;1566518733;asciilifeform;these ^ however are empty in lobbes's orig. archive snapshot. 1930249;1566518785;*;asciilifeform suspects that they were orig. encoded in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-15#1928981 and thereby didn't even get into lobbes's db 1930250;1566518785;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-15 21:23:52 asciilifeform: 'I mean literally, the guy's from Washitistan, they write things with their own excrement there, and the Unicode Foundation introduced actual excrement in the standard so now whenever someone asks for the networking code in your project they are delivered physical faeces on cardboard. About fifty eight acres of it. Where would you like this put, sir ?' (tm)(r)(mp) 1930251;1566518911;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2018-09-22 << ugh 1930252;1566518945;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, lobbes , et al : prolly could easily purge ~100% of spam, simply by detecting these. lemme know if you want. 1930253;1566519361;asciilifeform;going by informal walk via 'random' button -- that spamola is a substantial % of the archive, by mass 1930254;1566519425;asciilifeform;( the washitistan ??!?? + the randomly quoted lines from unknown heathen chans, + possibly other shannonized crapola ) 1930255;1566519554;asciilifeform;archives remaining to import : #a ( if ben_vulpes turns up, i'd like to use his mimisbrunnr log to close the gaps; otherwise will use own znc ) ; #p ( again ditto ) 1930256;1566519591;asciilifeform;aaand of course 'era 1' of #t ( already discussed in orig. thread on trilema ) . 1930257;1566519664;asciilifeform;aaand the db dump has been triggered manually ( it takes approx 10sec ) , in case anyone wants to get his hands on the updated db Right Nao . 1930258;1566520302;asciilifeform;thinkin' about it moar -- mircea_popescu et al, if you wanna nix the spamola, simplest way is to import the db and sort the users, there's i think 100 or so spamola nicks , could simply drop'em if want. 1930259;1566520364;*;asciilifeform doesn't give a damn in either direction, the archive doesn't weigh even within order of magnitude enuff to impact overall speed of indexing in any detectable way 1930260;1566520977;trinque;wtf lol, how would the bot spend a lot of time in the notification mechanism? 1930261;1566521188;trinque;do I start railing back about how this merry band is still relying on freenode for infrastructure or what 1930262;1566521201;trinque;or alternatively, where's my patch spyked ? 1930263;1566521790;trinque;more broadly, the question isn't so much what I could do with whatever IRC bot, it's what the hell should motivate me to sink more time into shit caked atop the thing I wish to see end. 1930264;1566522202;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930204 << win! 1930265;1566522202;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 20:38:48 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG lobbes et al : the #e archive created earlier by lobbes , is now imported into http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora . as usual plox to report any oddities . 1930266;1566522364;trinque;the thing's literally built atop tcp which supposedly has "connections" and it wants this ping/pong mechanism atop. ask me how many more hours of my life I wish to dedicate to this duck cunt that just wants a bit more. 1930267;1566522404;trinque;fuck me, drop the pretense and get on facebook messenger or w/e the kids use and be done with it 1930268;1566522528;trinque;bringing things in closer, apparently phf's in the hospital or something, and is thus persona non grata? 1930269;1566524672;asciilifeform;trinque: i may be able to help w / bot ( would like a working cl bot at any rate ). how current is the published src ( that i used in pehbot ) ? 1930270;1566524836;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930229 << ftr i agree entirely with this , but -- did write bot, when mp blew into the bugle, sometimes gotta be done 1930271;1566524837;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:38:59 trinque: more broadly, the question isn't so much what I could do with whatever IRC bot, it's what the hell should motivate me to sink more time into shit caked atop the thing I wish to see end. 1930272;1566524907;asciilifeform;trinque: i cannot resist to wonder if the problem is in the hoster -- iirc deedbot used to stand up for weeks at a time , in earlier days 1930273;1566525280;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930234 << near as i can tell , mp drilled him a new arse and consigned him to штрафбат for cowering in a cave for yr+ , rather than for sitting in hospital. ( see also mp's 'nickel' article ) 1930274;1566525281;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:51:18 trinque: bringing things in closer, apparently phf's in the hospital or something, and is thus persona non grata? 1930275;1566525501;asciilifeform;trinque: from the (very fragmentary) clues , seems to me that fella was demoralized somehow, for long time ( and possibly into bottle, tho tbf nothing specifically pointed to bottle ) 1930276;1566525729;asciilifeform;trinque: re 'irc, wish to see end' -- i also balked, but turns out even this chore had some interesting wtf-discoveries lying in wait, e.g. the apparently massive nonflatness of net lag topology 1930277;1566526178;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930218 << 'tis mircea_popescu's chan, so his call. Though I imagine there is reason to keep them (e.g. maybe one day in the future someone wants to make a post re: "hey remember how IRC sucked?"). Point being: it was logged, so it is in the logs. 1930278;1566526179;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 20:51:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, lobbes , et al : prolly could easily purge ~100% of spam, simply by detecting these. lemme know if you want. 1930279;1566527655;asciilifeform;lobbes: aha. i made no attempt to clean out the spamola, it will remain unless mircea_popescu asks ' drop xyz where... ' etc 1930280;1566530239;trinque;if I'm going to bolt znc to it, what point has a lisp bot? 1930281;1566530259;trinque;they have python ones that don't need any such prosthetic 1930282;1566530282;asciilifeform;trinque: potentially could use my wartime bot, but it doesn't do asynchronous sends 1930283;1566530325;asciilifeform;( when set out to write it, asciilifeform looked at coupla dozen published heathen bots, but threw'em all out, the smallest were still 1000+ ln for no detectable reason ) 1930284;1566530369;asciilifeform;decided in the end that it is easier to pour a cup of tea an' write one from 0, than to wade through the rubbishes 1930285;1566530563;asciilifeform;( if anyone wants to put async-sends in mine, the natural place to do so is imho [http://btcbase.org/patches/irssi2tmsr/tree/logotron/bot.py#L245][where recv() times out], pop (nonblockingly) string from a queue and speak() . ) 1930286;1566530673;asciilifeform;^ that way dun need any locking, no async speed will ever take place during a 'pong' or a synchronous reply to command. 1930287;1566530676;asciilifeform;*speech 1930288;1566547341;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930209 << it's likely this is because they got re-encoded on his end ; it's also the case nobody gives a shit. 1930289;1566547341;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 20:45:51 asciilifeform: hrm, correctly but with [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/eulora/2018-09-03#990941][exception of certain spam] lol 1930290;1566547466;mircea_popescu;http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-09-22.log.html << maybe not, his logger shows most of them. 1930291;1566547487;mircea_popescu;whatevers. 1930292;1566547521;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930218 << nah. notice how these didn't exist on trilema except when specifically quoted. i let it go in eulora intentionally. 1930293;1566547521;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 20:51:35 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, lobbes , et al : prolly could easily purge ~100% of spam, simply by detecting these. lemme know if you want. 1930294;1566547626;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930229 << you ever saw a ratchet work ? 1930295;1566547626;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:38:59 trinque: more broadly, the question isn't so much what I could do with whatever IRC bot, it's what the hell should motivate me to sink more time into shit caked atop the thing I wish to see end. 1930296;1566547727;mircea_popescu;it's this device that transforms inca (circular motion) into republic (linear motion) by the principle of only permitting rotary motion in one direction, thereby using the inca mass against itself. 1930297;1566547736;mircea_popescu;so long as we don't exceed it by mass, it'll be the correct approach. 1930298;1566547903;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 << this is definitely a good q. /me goes to see on thetarpit.org, when's publishing scheduled. 1930299;1566547903;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:29:11 trinque: or alternatively, where's my patch spyked ? 1930300;1566548076;mircea_popescu;spyked, you know, it occurs to me your workplan is fundamentally weak in that it includes no "will genesis material / publish patches". am i guessing right in that the next edition, seeing how week 35 is just about the corner, will include prior plan performance review and that ? 1930301;1566548108;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930232 << but why duck ?! 1930302;1566548109;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:48:34 trinque: the thing's literally built atop tcp which supposedly has "connections" and it wants this ping/pong mechanism atop. ask me how many more hours of my life I wish to dedicate to this duck cunt that just wants a bit more. 1930303;1566548533;spyked;mircea_popescu, why should the output of weekly work be necessarily genesis? for now, it's a review of coad; the review will be followed by a genesis, as [http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/097-hunchentoot-iii.html#selection-22.0-22.9][stated]. 1930304;1566548558;mircea_popescu;not necessarily. but you're running eg feedbot, you make improvements to it, nobody gets to see. 1930305;1566548563;mircea_popescu;this strikes you as desirable ? 1930306;1566548678;spyked;well, I made the last and only mod to it since http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08c-feedbot-iii.html yesterday; I am going to add it to the queue as it comes, right now I'm sticking to the current plan. 1930307;1566548743;mircea_popescu;yes, that wasn't in discussion. but the current plan takes you to week 35, after which comes week 36 and a new plan ? 1930308;1566548788;spyked;mircea_popescu, [http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/094-tmsr-work-iii.html#selection-107.242-107.420][yes]. 1930309;1566548836;spyked;there is a longer term plan that I have at http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/090-tmsr-work-ii.html , but experience shows that usually changes. 1930310;1566548841;mircea_popescu;and it'll include feedbot genesis / patches ? 1930311;1566548870;spyked;e.g. right now the plan for september is to get thetarpit comments and new logger. 1930312;1566548894;mircea_popescu;so is the idea feedbot gets abandoned a la lobbes' orig bot ? 1930313;1566548965;spyked;mircea_popescu, no. feedbot is patched upon ircbot, not genesized (as per earlier log discussion), i.e. http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08a-feedbot-i.html ; http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08b-feedbot-ii.html ; http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08c-feedbot-iii.html ; this was planned to be the complete code, but sure, I'm testing the changes that I made and will publish a patch for it. 1930314;1566548999;spyked;just didn't get to report in this month's report, because it happened yesterday. 1930315;1566549011;mircea_popescu;look, it's no great mystery i don't think, but in any case, here's what i do : i read the log, line by line, in order. currently i'm processing line http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 1930316;1566549011;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:29:11 trinque: or alternatively, where's my patch spyked ? 1930317;1566549038;mircea_popescu;now help me out here. is the answer "late aug/early sept i will publish my sept workplan which'll include a date at which i intend to publish the answer to that q" ? 1930318;1566549126;spyked;mircea_popescu, yes, sorry for the confusion. the plan is to: post hunchentoot ep. 6 today, as per plan; and as september begins, post the plan for next month, which should include all the new things I'm working on (code, reviews of code, whatever arises in the meanwhile) 1930319;1566549144;mircea_popescu;including an answer for trinque, as to, where's his patch. aite. 1930320;1566549177;mircea_popescu;oh yes, and some kind of evaluation of the prev plan. 1930321;1566549199;spyked;mircea_popescu, tbh I find that to be a particularly cheeky question, since I asked him the same on [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130668][more] than [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-25#1924612][one] occasion and was greeted with silence. 1930322;1566549199;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-25 03:30:20 spyked: trinque, could you pl0x share the ircbot auto-reconnect code that you're testing? I wanna give it a spin myself and give some time to ironing out whatever problems I might find. 1930323;1566549214;mircea_popescu;spyked, so why not tell him that lol. 1930324;1566549217;spyked;re. evaluation, troo 1930325;1566549226;spyked;mircea_popescu, I was processing logz myself at this very moment, lol :D 1930326;1566549231;mircea_popescu;a a. aite. 1930327;1566549244;mircea_popescu;i'm guessing i'll get to it later lol. 1930328;1566549293;spyked;but decided to answer your q first I was here and prolly keeping you waiting would be frustrating 1930329;1566549303;mircea_popescu;why tyvm. 1930330;1566549303;spyked;*since I was here 1930331;1566549326;mircea_popescu;moving on through the list of slightly dissociated questions : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930234 << iirc he was declaring self outpatient by aug 9th ; but yes persona non grata here, as per 1930332;1566549326;mircea_popescu;"Needless to say, I am unamused ; and, to answer the [http://trilema.com/2019/a-nickels-worth-of-clues/#comment-130687][original] inquiry in firmer terms containing no ifs or buts : no, I personally have no further interest in hearing what phf may have to say on any topic. The time for "ok then, I will get my logger to spec by X date and hope to have my blog up by Y date" came and went, sometime yesterday. 1930333;1566549326;mircea_popescu;The time to whine about "what it all means" [http://trilema.com/2015/a-trip-you-may-have-taken-redux/?b=know%20what%20it&e=for%20us#select][etcetera] is henceforth, 'till forever." 1930334;1566549327;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:51:18 trinque: bringing things in closer, apparently phf's in the hospital or something, and is thus persona non grata? 1930335;1566549437;mircea_popescu;i don't intend to negrate him, as things stand, so you're more than welcome to explore wonderful world detailed in the further paragraphs of that comment. 1930336;1566549503;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930233 << i dun really get what this is about, but anyways. 1930337;1566549504;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:49:13 trinque: fuck me, drop the pretense and get on facebook messenger or w/e the kids use and be done with it 1930338;1566549598;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930241 << rather's the case, dude watched so much seinfeld he's so very firmly committed to non-committal he'll very happily die of it just to make a point "to the world". whatevers. 1930339;1566549599;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 22:40:51 asciilifeform: trinque: from the (very fragmentary) clues , seems to me that fella was demoralized somehow, for long time ( and possibly into bottle, tho tbf nothing specifically pointed to bottle ) 1930340;1566549968;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930246 << and if you're going to stick it into cunt, what point has penis ? wtf q is this. 1930341;1566549969;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 23:59:49 trinque: if I'm going to bolt znc to it, what point has a lisp bot? 1930342;1566549983;mircea_popescu;the sticking is the very point. 1930343;1566550008;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930247 << actually, they do. 1930344;1566550009;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 00:00:09 trinque: they have python ones that don't need any such prosthetic 1930345;1566550083;mircea_popescu;spyked, i'm starting to suspect, incidentally, that no cheekiness is involved, he simply never saw either instance, does something like two hours/week keeping track of things, and if that week has 25 hours' worth of logs and developments, well, gets 8%. hey trinque, are you current with the logs ? how descriptive is that model / 1930346;1566550291;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930226 <-- to be clear, discussion was re. rss bot, which is built atop trinque's bot. I made the mistake of having a long-running operation on the main bot thread, which is the same thread that handles pongs and does [http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/ircbot/c-ircbot.lisp.html#L96][lag tracking]. imho the fault was 100% in the feedbot coad, but if deedbot 1930347;1566550291;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:25:26 trinque: wtf lol, how would the bot spend a lot of time in the notification mechanism? 1930348;1566550297;spyked; also runs on ircbot, it *could* conceivably suffer from the same issue. 1930349;1566550338;spyked;mircea_popescu, that might be. also, my verbose style of writing reports dun help any 1930350;1566550473;mircea_popescu;yes, but the idea is that "let whoever signed the genesis evaluate your patches, rather than do it for them through the venue of keeping them phf'd" 1930351;1566550528;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true 1930352;1566550529;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:29:11 trinque: or alternatively, where's my patch spyked ? 1930353;1566550655;spyked;I'm still [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/spyked/2019-08-16#1000082][testing] this in #spyked, it seems to be working so far, e.g. >1wk uptime for test-spykedbot: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/spyked/2019-08-23#1000120 1930354;1566550655;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-16 13:36:19 spyked: ^ ftr, this is an instance of ircbot sans the "pinger" thread and handling pings coming from the server. seems to be working fine (tho, in all fairness, so does feedbot for now) 1930355;1566550655;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 04:39:08 spykedbot: Up for 7d 21h 39m 14s 1930356;1566550655;mircea_popescu;the fundamental problem wiht ideas is that they're not patches. 1930357;1566550857;spyked;mircea_popescu, I completely agree. fwiw, I can genesis hunchentoot next thing if somebody asks for it. but would rather have the thing reviewed first, a propos of: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930229 . IMHO gotta document it, so that I don't make the same mistakes when I attempt a sane http replacement 1930358;1566550857;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 21:38:59 trinque: more broadly, the question isn't so much what I could do with whatever IRC bot, it's what the hell should motivate me to sink more time into shit caked atop the thing I wish to see end. 1930359;1566550873;mircea_popescu;why first ? think you about it, how is the review supposed to work ? 1930360;1566550896;mircea_popescu;somebody decides to spend some time towards reviewing. what do they do next ? 1930361;1566550964;spyked;mircea_popescu, as I understand the meaning of signature is "I understand how this thing works". if I sign it before reviewing it, there's nothing to show re. my understanding. am I getting this wrong? 1930362;1566551082;mircea_popescu;this understanding is current as of cca 2016. meanwhile we agreed that because a) it is preferrable to work with republican rather than imperial items and to prevent more imperial seepage than needed ; and because b) there's no limit to signature count as per long standing observations and discussions (with a very early asciilifeform cca 2013 maybe) then therefore the correct approach is to sign things early, to get them i 1930363;1566551083;mircea_popescu;nto v infrastructure, and to use non-main keys for this. 1930364;1566551095;mircea_popescu;make yourself a spyked-genesises-stolen-crap sig, use that. 1930365;1566551122;spyked;aite, I'll do that 1930366;1566551126;mircea_popescu;win. 1930367;1566551348;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930246 <-- sooner or later /me is going to dive into sbcl, where he expects to find much of the rot that plagues e.g. python. so wut diff does it make? 1930368;1566551349;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 23:59:49 trinque: if I'm going to bolt znc to it, what point has a lisp bot? 1930369;1566551643;spyked;upstack re erlang: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930095 <-- imho doesn't sound bad at all, given that e.g. feedbot threads communicate exactly through this type of message queue. meanwhile, I notice that there's a "[http://lfe.io/][lisp-flavoured erlang]" dialect on teh interwebz, but no idea if worth looking into it 1930370;1566551643;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 12:19:27 asciilifeform: imho would be 9000x better to simply steal the technique and port to e.g. cmucl . 1930371;1566551706;*;spyked bbl, teh cotton fields calling 1930372;1566557148;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in archeological lulz, http://ossasepia.com/2011/07/31/sonet-ultramodern/ 1930373;1566557157;mircea_popescu;hey diana_coman where's that article about google! 1930374;1566557850;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: what article about google? 1930375;1566557874;mircea_popescu;where you were ranting about how it sucks, doesn't even give 5 of its claimed 5bn results, what reason could anyone have to believe the count 1930376;1566557927;diana_coman;I don't even remember myself ranting on it, huh 1930377;1566557948;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in further archeology, [http://trilema.com/2016/the-burial-and-the-impossible-object/?b=quid&e=tenemus#select][quid quodcumque faciemus, nomina nuda tenemus]. trilema dixit! 1930378;1566557972;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, srlsy ? the core of the argument was that google lists a supposed number of results, in the bns, but it never disgorges any significant count 1930379;1566558100;diana_coman;hm, I *do* remember the idea but not having properly ranted on it (granted, I tend to forget it if I have a good rant over it, lol) 1930380;1566558145;mircea_popescu;lol. kinda the purpose of a good rand 1930381;1566558231;diana_coman;aha; but atm at least I can't seem to find it either, sadly 1930382;1566558278;mircea_popescu;btw, don't you find the titles-only style for archives / categories better ? 1930383;1566558285;mircea_popescu;takes for fucking ever to scroll through otherwose 1930384;1566558339;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: I do; and a few other bits that are on the list to change but on which I kept thinking "there will be a mp-wp theme" and then can tweak; hm, who was it, billymg ? 1930385;1566558410;diana_coman;tbh with categories also I start wondering if it's working at all or in fact it's still tags more useful anyway, without the pretense of neat and strict classification 1930386;1566558438;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, yeah i think he's working on it. 1930387;1566558447;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, so what, autgen the tags ? 1930388;1566558464;mircea_popescu;i confess among the papers on my desk there's some various aproaches at word-distance and otherwise auto-tagging 1930389;1566558476;mircea_popescu;~clear to me too that categories aren't worth while. 1930390;1566558552;diana_coman;the exact approach/algo is the iffy bit re tags but probably won't be able to just come up with it directly working great 1930391;1566558610;mircea_popescu;on one hand, something simple like "tag each article with the 12 most frequently occuring live words over 3 characters long ; keep a central list of "dead" words that occur in more than x% of articles, re-tag all articles tagged with one of the words there" 1930392;1566558628;mircea_popescu;on the other hand, something complex, involving linkage and actual attempts at "ai" sesne-making... well 1930393;1566558684;mircea_popescu;imo a correct tagging mechanism is the one item missing from http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/ 1930394;1566558775;diana_coman;I would start with something rather simple indeed; and review it, initially it's really a sort of learning wtf in there because I have no idea atm how useful the tags produced would be 1930395;1566558833;diana_coman;possibly linked words for instance are more important 1930396;1566558983;mircea_popescu;another approach is to just generate the list of most common words on trilema, pick the best ones, and tag with them all the articles that contain them 1930397;1566559000;mircea_popescu;this augments the ai with human mind, but then again also limits it -- you won't find what you didn't put in. 1930398;1566559070;mircea_popescu;eg the trilema article i quoted above : i had fully forgotten about. not in the sense that i don't recognize it when i see it, i do, but in the sense that when i penned http://trilema.com/2019/black-or-white-the-day-of-saturday/ which needed it, i did recall to put it in. i've meanwhile corrected this and added the link, but i am certain there's THOUSANDS of such "actually mp, the item you'd link here is this" "oh shit you 1930399;1566559071;mircea_popescu;'re right" 1930400;1566559081;mircea_popescu;and needless to say, this bothers me immensely. 1930401;1566559625;spyked;mircea_popescu, was that http://ossasepia.com/2010/02/21/google-te-prosteste-nu-iti-ofera-doar-mai-multe-oportunitati-sa-o-faci-singur/ ? 1930402;1566559633;mircea_popescu;nah was recent and in english 1930403;1566559733;mircea_popescu;however you turn this matter around, yes categories make no sense, if you wanted super-titles you'd do chapters. and tags ONLY make sense as the converse to search terms, "here's the words you might wish to search trilema for" 1930404;1566559764;mircea_popescu;search words are "i know the searcher but not the material, here's soem clues' whereas tags are "i know the material but not the seacher, here's some clues" 1930405;1566559770;mircea_popescu;i dun really see any other workable approach. 1930406;1566562894;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: I agree re categories and tags; fwiw I also think that tags should reflect the material as it was put in; basically if one wants to categorize content differently, then they can make their own manual/automated/mixed/whatever tagger and apply it, providing their own view of the content 1930407;1566562911;mircea_popescu;imo tags have to evolve with the blog 1930408;1566562987;diana_coman;they do, as they reflect the material put in; but I don't see a problem with a third person deciding to categorize trilema with whatever tags they think greatest and provide the resulting tags + links as their view of it, what 1930409;1566562990;mircea_popescu;that's why nobody has a working system : 1. any meaningful interpretation of "categories" reduces to "tags", so even though implementations give "the choice" it is a dud choice ; and 2. any meaningful implementation of tags requires they change with the blog, whereas every implementation presumes to enter them at the time of publishing (which coincidentally but harmfully overlaps with the "don't alter history" imperative) 1930410;1566563012;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, i mean, that by your writing article 19, the tags of article 2 change 1930411;1566563028;diana_coman;yes but I don't see the problem with that 1930412;1566563046;diana_coman;by writing that article I add to the knowledge my blog reflects i.e. to my public knowledge if you prefer 1930413;1566563051;mircea_popescu;well, there's no system that currently does this, recalculates the whole cloud tag and each article's tags on each new article published 1930414;1566563055;diana_coman;and yes, tags change as knowledge accumulates 1930415;1566563064;diana_coman;may change; not like *always* change 1930416;1566563072;mircea_popescu;yes, may. 1930417;1566563095;mircea_popescu;basically, each article's tags' lease on life is "until another article is published". 1930418;1566563106;mircea_popescu;can be extended a thousand times, and then broken. 1930419;1566563156;diana_coman;yes; and ofc there isn't any such thing or we'd have used it, no? 1930420;1566563216;mircea_popescu;yup. 1930421;1566563238;mircea_popescu;i suppose nobody wrote enough since the dawn of the digital age for this need to appear and be conceptualized 1930422;1566563280;mircea_popescu;in any case -- the part where categories are useless, tags are where it's at, and they must be recalc'd every article publish is clear. the part where HOW to calculate them in the first place, that's unclear. 1930423;1566563305;diana_coman;exactly 1930424;1566563309;mircea_popescu;and yes, we'll prolly have to hack soemthing togethet to find this out 1930425;1566563332;mircea_popescu;but personally, i'm waiting for billymg to emerge, out of his current work. if nothing's clear by then, we can hack. but before, no real benefit, all downsides. 1930426;1566563358;diana_coman;arguably there are all those projects (like perseus even, perhaps?) where they worked precisely on "lots of digital content how to make it digitally-useful" but I am not aware of something that translates directly 1930427;1566563371;mircea_popescu;because it's dead letter 1930428;1566563375;mircea_popescu;nobody's gonna write more platon. 1930429;1566563432;diana_coman;true; though it does get added gradually anyway and they don't really expect to know upfront *everything* that will be added 1930430;1566563504;mircea_popescu;no, they expected. 1930431;1566563513;mircea_popescu;illogical, granted, but to me the expectation's obviouis 1930432;1566563940;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: come to think of it, the "cloud of tags" is the closest thing to the above in that it changes indeed as content is added; I don't recall if it provides direct link to articles but at least it reflects the content as is 1930433;1566564003;diana_coman;or hm, it relies on frequent tags rather than words so not quite reflecting the content 1930434;1566564119;mircea_popescu;yea, they're stumbling in the direction, blindly. 1930435;1566566577;mircea_popescu;ahh, feedbot conveniently pointed to me diana_coman 's comment. this thing is so fucking useful, making me look like a cyborg 1930436;1566566978;diana_coman;feedbot is extremely useful to track all the comments + posts, basically I switched all to it and it's working great so far; there was the deluge of the after-break stuff coming in today but it's not a big issue (and it didn't choke on it either so all good) 1930437;1566567375;mircea_popescu;yup 1930438;1566567753;diana_coman;lobbes: your blog ate my link! 1930439;1566567778;diana_coman;do you still have the bug re html in comments perhaps? 1930440;1566568744;diana_coman;!!v F2DEE7F91D9B50B3B50840199C8C868221CD7FA849EAA36919C79EB2611F3CB3 1930441;1566568747;deedbot;diana_coman paid BingoBoingo invoice 3 1930442;1566568761;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: ty 1930443;1566573357;billymg;re: blog work, i'm about to head out for the weekend, back early next week. i'll be able to bang out some more test coverage based on mircea_popescu's spec on the trip and put together a status/roadmap post when i get back 1930444;1566573404;mircea_popescu;cool 1930445;1566573508;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930335 << this find is so monumentally terrible, that it is worth preserving in amber. ( and not on acct of the shithub, roundedcornerism, and misc. redditisms, but strictly from pov of the proggy per se . ) behold : 1930446;1566573508;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 05:56:34 spyked: upstack re erlang: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930095 <-- imho doesn't sound bad at all, given that e.g. feedbot threads communicate exactly through this type of message queue. meanwhile, I notice that there's a "[http://lfe.io/][lisp-flavoured erlang]" dialect on teh interwebz, but no idea if worth looking into it 1930447;1566573545;asciilifeform;... [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1JZtK/?raw=true][their coad example]. observe how yes they added paren, but... with various infixisms somehow still preserved and freely intermixed ?!! 1930448;1566573593;asciilifeform;or for that matter , the function calls. e.g. #'start-ring/2 . dafuq, if it's a sexpr, it ~knows already~ that it needs the 'start-ring' that eats 2 args , not 1, not 3, not 17 1930449;1566573749;asciilifeform;spyked: the tricky bit re [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930095]['steal the ultralight threads'] is that in order for it to work, you more or less have to have same degree of 'fascism' as in actual erlang, i.e. can't have shared memory, easily-mutable variables, all the other knobs that make 'earthling' threads 'heavy' 1930450;1566573750;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 12:19:27 asciilifeform: imho would be 9000x better to simply steal the technique and port to e.g. cmucl . 1930451;1566573836;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930260 << funnily enuff, not long before reading these words, asciilifeform was using an actual, physical ratchet... which... broke. and nao turns 2ways. 1930452;1566573836;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 04:49:37 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930229 << you ever saw a ratchet work ? 1930453;1566573860;asciilifeform;( chinesium!11 ) 1930454;1566573878;mircea_popescu;heh 1930455;1566573968;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930302 << i got distinct impression that trinque is ripping own hair out from grrr re bugs in the (quite gnarly, i think was written in n00b yrs) cl bot 1930456;1566573968;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 05:20:54 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930233 << i dun really get what this is about, but anyways. 1930457;1566574045;mircea_popescu;wouldn't that read "motherfucker, i have no fucking idea what the fuck i wrote in here, was i drunk or what, it's illisible!" 1930458;1566574082;asciilifeform;ftr asciilifeform walked into the 'go make bot' thing also suffering under the notion that [http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-goes-dark/#comment-130686][bot is titanic problem that takes year of work] . but imho this aint so. 1930459;1566574140;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i think trinque & ben also walked in with this, given as they used a heathen 'cl-irc' lib for some reason (thinking, i suspect, 'irc, grrr, gnarly to implement' ) 1930460;1566574160;mircea_popescu;possibru 1930461;1566574161;asciilifeform;nao they're stuck with http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-10-25#1866191 1930462;1566574161;snsabot;Logged on 2018-10-25 15:10:38 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs. 1930463;1566574172;asciilifeform;the only cure, folx -- rewrite! 1930464;1566574193;mircea_popescu;i dunno man, just sitting here readin' dem logs. 1930465;1566574224;*;asciilifeform also reading, but slower 1930466;1566574374;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930317 << this is The Right Thing (it dun need 'latency measurer' or any of that!) but only ~half~ . rip out the cl-irc thing. 1930467;1566574374;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 05:37:59 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930228 <-- until I get proper patches published, here's an idea: 1. abolish "ping-thread" from ircbot; 2. instead, set up a ping handler for the bot, and have it respond with pong; this has the disadvantage that there's no more lag tracking, but it's simpler. proof-of-concept patch: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LohMF/?raw=true 1930468;1566574441;asciilifeform;spyked: mine is <400ln , incl. all postgresisms. and doesn't use 'irc lib', notice. 1930469;1566574618;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930301 << entirely possible that fella comes back to life and walks in with genesis of bot, vpatch viewer, cleaned-up vdiffism, etc. and i'ma be pleasantly surprised. but would not bet money or hold breath to wait for it. 1930470;1566574618;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 05:19:48 mircea_popescu: i don't intend to negrate him, as things stand, so you're more than welcome to explore wonderful world detailed in the further paragraphs of that comment. 1930471;1566574732;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930405 << his comment box eats less-than/greater-than signs as 'unclosed htm tags'. which i also observed on mircea_popescu's www, i think it is ancient wp bug (of the 'no one wants to fix' sort, it'd require a 2-pass parser) 1930472;1566574733;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 10:25:30 diana_coman: do you still have the bug re html in comments perhaps? 1930473;1566574761;mircea_popescu;i dunno that it's a bug, just don't leave < floating around. 1930474;1566574778;mircea_popescu;meanwhile, some installs incorectly config'd (ancient ?) eat a tags 1930475;1566574805;mircea_popescu;im not re-debugging this, spent a day year-or-so ago on it, i expect the resuklts to be in the mp-wp tree! 1930476;1566574822;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho then comment box oughta have a notation e.g. 'dun fughet to < >' etc 1930477;1566574837;mircea_popescu;why ? 1930478;1566574861;asciilifeform;cuz apparently errybody fughets. 1930479;1566574883;asciilifeform;why does room where oxygen kept have 'no smoking' sign. 1930480;1566574924;mircea_popescu;yes well, i just looked at this room, it dun have a "breathe" sign 1930481;1566574929;asciilifeform;lol 1930482;1566574990;*;asciilifeform if were writing a new blogotron, would have the comment box eat same syntax as here, with the square brackets. who the hell needs raw htm in comments other than for linkage. 1930483;1566575253;asciilifeform;even the ~reddit~ people got this right, iirc. in '07, no less. 1930484;1566575287;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-breast-implants-and-suicide-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Breast Implants and Suicide. Adnotated. 1930485;1566575290;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-british-medical-journal-sends-its-scienticians-to-the-internet-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - British Medical Journal Sends Its Scienticians To The Internet. Adnotated. 1930486;1566575304;diana_coman;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930437 - no, it was a proper link, proper html; hence the bug re version of php, solved by danielpbarron and in hanbot's vpatch etc. 1930487;1566575305;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 12:21:25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930405 << his comment box eats less-than/greater-than signs as 'unclosed htm tags'. which i also observed on mircea_popescu's www, i think it is ancient wp bug (of the 'no one wants to fix' sort, it'd require a 2-pass parser) 1930488;1566575321;asciilifeform;hm then moar interesting. 1930489;1566575329;diana_coman;there was no < floating around, no. 1930490;1566575349;diana_coman;I suspect he just missed that/did not update his local mp-wp, that's all 1930491;1566575353;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-can-narcissism-be-cured-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Can Narcissism Be Cured?. Adnotated. 1930492;1566575356;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/09c-hunchentoot-via.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: requests and replies [a] 1930493;1566575369;asciilifeform;wb feedbot 1930494;1566575378;spyked;hm, it seems that feedbot forgot to deliver some posts today because of the changes I made yesterday. fixed this and will include changes in next vpatch 1930495;1566575533;spyked;asciilifeform, IMHO the custom markup idea for new blogotron ain't bad, but it might piss off ppl used to mp-wp, who still use ye olde html tags. I'm curious to hear opinions, given that I'm working on this exact thing for thetarpit 1930496;1566575565;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930304 << possibly mircea_popescu won't believe that it is possible when doing 25yrs in usaschwitz, but : asciilifeform never saw 'seinfeld' . should i ? ( and, will turn into vegetable immediately ?! ) iirc it was 1 of those ameri-'comedians' where 0 actual humour, and audience had to be 'reminded to laugh' via taped laffs ? 1930497;1566575566;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 05:22:30 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930241 << rather's the case, dude watched so much seinfeld he's so very firmly committed to non-committal he'll very happily die of it just to make a point "to the world". whatevers. 1930498;1566575871;mircea_popescu;i dunno why learn two htmls. 1930499;1566575887;mircea_popescu;new mark-up once tmsr browswer. 1930500;1566575979;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, it's mildly comedic 1980s dissociated jew fiction. not more immediately dangerous than say watching star trek 1930501;1566575994;mircea_popescu;you don't grow the pantsuit from visual contact with that dude's bald head directly 1930502;1566577445;hanbot;mircea_popescu it occurs to me, in today's attempt to catch up with trilema pieces: didja rule out offering a public bounty for forgotten references a la http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-biology-is-destiny-adnotated/#footnote_3_86951 ? 1930503;1566577537;hanbot;i dun mean amongst l1 obviously, but as a sort of douchebag-level incentivizer. 1930504;1566577553;mircea_popescu;meh. 1930505;1566577570;mircea_popescu;i need mroe douchebags like i need genital warts. 1930506;1566577672;hanbot;i don't think it'd require bringing douchebags in; have a list of unsolved refs, assign a reviewer for public submissions (i'd volunteer), award if solved, relationship can end there. 1930507;1566577686;mircea_popescu;it really dun sound like anything. 1930508;1566577690;hanbot;aite 1930509;1566577950;*;asciilifeform recalls the ' [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2433][cr50] bounty ' thrd. mircea_popescu made very persuasive arg re 'takes >= work to adjudicate contest as to do the actual job' . 1930510;1566577960;mircea_popescu;aha 1930511;1566578014;asciilifeform;just possibly -- on a 'pre-1993' net , i.e. fulla actual people, this would not be. but on current -- so 1930512;1566578047;mircea_popescu;i really don't ~want~ to give anything to these moral repugnants in the first place. 1930513;1566578061;mircea_popescu;i'd rather donate to the democratic party than give anything to the "unmotivated" scum of the net 1930514;1566578073;asciilifeform;it'd be rather like trying to hire pigeons to clean a statue. 1930515;1566578101;mircea_popescu;i'd really rather read pravda. 1930516;1566578177;*;asciilifeform on occasion ~actually~ does read it. well, not usually the daily maculature per se (try an' find it) but e.g. recently read a sovok-pov history of rome. entertaining. 1930517;1566578201;mircea_popescu;not the old pravda, the current pravda. 1930518;1566578205;asciilifeform;a 1930519;1566578208;mircea_popescu;"statements of the state organs of the usg" 1930520;1566578257;mircea_popescu;in fact, the little that leaks through tlp 1930521;1566578272;mircea_popescu;s retarded skullholes is both a daily irritant and the actual limit on the speed of digestion 1930522;1566578292;*;asciilifeform gets already 1000x the digestible dose , purely from ^ and from seepage via qntra 1930523;1566578295;mircea_popescu;i could write say 8 or so more adnotations today. will not, because i can't fucking take moar "o look what i read in washington vice" 1930524;1566578373;asciilifeform;i was actually somewhat surprised when saw mircea_popescu undertake 'digest tlp' . it seems rather similar to the work of gathering usable scrap metal from chernobyl. 1930525;1566578381;mircea_popescu;ya well 1930526;1566578386;mircea_popescu;i am young and foolish 1930527;1566578427;hanbot;asciilifeform thx for reminding me of that thread. somehow it seemed obvious then, lol. 1930528;1566578435;nicoleci;Ftr, i've been trying to get ahold of Ballas at his office in Maryland for two weeks now. The first time I called, receptionist told me hes only in the office on Wednesdays, I called back on Wednesday and was told he left early. Then when I called yesterday she told me that he's working from home today. Slippery dude. 1930529;1566578450;mircea_popescu;heh 1930530;1566578504;hanbot;nicoleci send 'em pix of yerself in white pumps. 1930531;1566578514;mircea_popescu;bwahaha 1930532;1566578819;nicoleci;hanbot, lol! 1930533;1566579082;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930461 << this might be an irreconcilable 'religious' q. asciilifeform for instance thinks that having to write foo instead of *foo* is braindamaged. 1930534;1566579082;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 12:34:46 spyked: asciilifeform, IMHO the custom markup idea for new blogotron ain't bad, but it might piss off ppl used to mp-wp, who still use ye olde html tags. I'm curious to hear opinions, given that I'm working on this exact thing for thetarpit 1930535;1566579123;asciilifeform;( not even to mention having to escape something as commonplace as > < & etc ) 1930536;1566584802;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930493 << ftr, that thrd : >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-06-12#1824598 1930537;1566584802;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 13:23:00 hanbot: asciilifeform thx for reminding me of that thread. somehow it seemed obvious then, lol. 1930538;1566584803;snsabot;Logged on 2018-06-12 20:54:54 mircea_popescu: anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything". 1930539;1566593611;BingoBoingo;Entrar armado a un banco "es la cosa más linda" porque "todo el mundo te respeta" - Pepe Mujica, former president and bank robber 1930540;1566593904;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: reminiscent of ameristan's 'cuz it's where the money is'(tm)(r)(dillinger) 1930541;1566596246;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-22#1930162 << the plan makes sense, i will implement it. though i intend to start from the 'read data from fg' position, because 1. opening tty devices from kernel without very dirty tricks became possible only in 4.13; 1930542;1566596246;a111;Logged on 2019-08-22 16:43 mircea_popescu: imo correct design is 16kb to cpu-cache-sized inner ring buffer, wherein fg material is simply written into a loop, plain ; and from where high quality entropy is read blockingly. whenever the writing head threatens to overwrite the reading head, the overwritten bits are instead fed into outer ring 1930543;1566596318;bvt;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-22#1930128 is the correct ref 1930544;1566596318;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-22 13:25:30 mircea_popescu: imo correct design is 16kb to cpu-cache-sized inner ring buffer, wherein fg material is simply written into a loop, plain ; and from where high quality entropy is read blockingly. whenever the writing head threatens to overwrite the reading head, the overwritten bits are instead fed into outer ring 1930545;1566596333;bvt;2. by tty model of linux, you don't pull data using tty driver, the driver pushes the data though several abstraction layers. i would have grok this stuff as well. there is at least one other driver that needs this functionality (for connecting a screenreader to a tty), so i can figure out stuff by looking at what it does. 1930546;1566596379;bvt;one q though, per my reading of the formalization, stretching happens only on I overflow? i.e. if there is a consumer reading from I, preventing it from overfilling, bytes would never fall into O, and stretching is not triggered? 1930547;1566599063;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930507 << writing can happen after machine fully booted, neh ? e.g. root-owned process will simply dd if=/dev/ttyUSBx of=/dev/random 1930548;1566599064;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 18:20:00 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-22#1930162 << the plan makes sense, i will implement it. though i intend to start from the 'read data from fg' position, because 1. opening tty devices from kernel without very dirty tricks became possible only in 4.13; 1930549;1566599091;asciilifeform;no need, as i understand, to actually read FG 'in kernel' 1930550;1566599153;asciilifeform;( it's superficially appealing, but almost certain to get bogged down in particulars of usb2serial dongles, as well as the gnarly issue of actually identifying FG from other serial devices -- linux offers 0 hard guarantee of initialization order for serial gadgets ) 1930551;1566599214;asciilifeform;ftr imho a box that wants FG ~during~ boot, oughta have it on an actual rs232 port -- these get init'd very simply quite early during boot 1930552;1566599242;asciilifeform;btw it remains unclear to asciilifeform , why entropy would be wanted ~during boot~ at all 1930553;1566600038;bvt;asciilifeform: if you recall, this was my original plan, however i got impression from 'part of kernel & welded shut' here http://bvt-trace.net/2019/08/fg-fed-linux-rng-work-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-44 that everything should be inside 1930554;1566600107;mircea_popescu;bvt indeed, if there's no I to O overflow, then O just acts as a cprng, keeps hashing itself 1930555;1566600185;mircea_popescu;while alf's "no need for entropy during boot" is not correct, nevertheless "no need for I-entropy" stands, can just use the O register until you can indeed http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930512 1930556;1566600186;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 19:06:58 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930507 << writing can happen after machine fully booted, neh ? e.g. root-owned process will simply dd if=/dev/ttyUSBx of=/dev/random 1930557;1566600508;bvt;the O ring needs to be initialized somehow, zero-filling it may be bad, and keeping the existing infrastructure for just boot-time entropy collection is not an option; should i look for something simple that would work for initialization? 1930558;1566600545;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for what need entropy ( or even pseudo-entropy ) during boot ? 1930559;1566600576;mircea_popescu;to init the crapola. 1930560;1566600587;mircea_popescu;bvt why is zero filling bad ? 1930561;1566600607;asciilifeform;which crapola? ( the prng itself? ( 1930562;1566600613;asciilifeform;) 1930563;1566600622;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, various drivers ; various tables ; samplers ; all sorta crap. 1930564;1566600631;mircea_popescu;it's not my fault linux kernel was written by the zombie herd 1930565;1566600690;asciilifeform;strikes me as nuttery that e.g. nic driver, might not only want entropy, but ~in boot~ 1930566;1566600698;mircea_popescu;yes welll 1930567;1566600798;asciilifeform;and those by all rights oughta get marsaglia or similar penny 'entropy'. crypto-battlefield proggies have no biz making an appearance at boot time or in absence of init'd FG . 1930568;1566600815;mircea_popescu;hence my comment re O-entropy 1930569;1566600821;asciilifeform;right 1930570;1566601084;bvt;asciilifeform: actually it may be easy to find early users with ftrace=function ftrace_filter=*random* at kernel command line, and then get the users out of tracefs 1930571;1566601333;bvt;mircea_popescu: i don't think it will lead to any vulnerability or something of this sort, no; but still there is a question of what the early users are (i.e. something in net stack, that will stick for a long time?) 1930572;1566601428;mircea_popescu;srsly now, IF there is such a thing as a program that needs crypto-grade entropy at boot time, it's a piece of shit. 1930573;1566601458;mircea_popescu;not like current kernel starts up with a 4kb entropy pool 1930574;1566601631;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i can think of a few riotously braindamaged proggies atm (e.g. 'sshd', where author somehow thought it acceptable to generate host key at boot ; and tcp stack, where seq #'s ) 1930575;1566601642;mircea_popescu;aha 1930576;1566602841;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/google-bans-political-discussions-among-employees-as-it-supports-apparent-usg-color-revolution-in-hong-kong/ << Qntra -- Google Bans Political Discussions Among Employees As It Supports Apparent USG Color Revolution In Hong Kong 1930577;1566603204;feedbot;http://thewhet.net/2019/08/impression-of-minsk-july-5th/ << The Whet -- Impression of Minsk, July 5th 1930578;1566608953;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the 2 'archived' links are identical 1930579;1566608975;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty, will sort it out 1930580;1566609094;BingoBoingo;fxd 1930581;1566614204;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930421 << incorrect. I spend virtually no time thinking about whether the bot I wrote while still 20whatever is any good. 1930582;1566614204;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 12:08:41 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930302 << i got distinct impression that trinque is ripping own hair out from grrr re bugs in the (quite gnarly, i think was written in n00b yrs) cl bot 1930583;1566614239;trinque;all of this posturing aside, do y'all want someone that gives a shit about selling pizarro accounts? need any help with that? 1930584;1566614297;trinque;I couldn't muster less of a fuck about the final irc bot to rule them all 1930585;1566614301;trinque;it's built atop THEIR STACK 1930586;1566614306;trinque;congrats! 1930587;1566614364;trinque;on the subj of phf, I suppose I'm just butthurt because warring over the null set is perhaps one of my fondest memories of this hall. 1930588;1566614384;trinque;phf: what the hell's the matter with you anyway, shake it off. 1930589;1566614403;trinque;you're seriously going to let the texan remain standing? 1930590;1566614897;BingoBoingo; all of this posturing aside, do y'all want someone that gives a shit about selling pizarro accounts? need any help with that? << A solution to automate private message placement on heathen forums is desired. 1930591;1566614915;trinque;automated nothing, y'all need a voice 1930592;1566615021;BingoBoingo;It took mircea_popescu how many baited hooks to rescue nicoleci from midwestern sadness? The number was seven to 8 figures. 1930593;1566615290;trinque;eh don't bring the women into it. 1930594;1566616259;lobbes;in other words, trinque, you don't see the fetlife automation as the same item as pizarro automation? In any case, why are automated "hi's" and a voice for a pizarro mutually exclusive? 1930595;1566616750;trinque;I have no idea what you just asked. 1930596;1566617550;lobbes;Well, you said that automation is not what Pizarro needs. BingoBoingo brought up mp's data (from his fetlife filtering) that suggests that in order to reach actual humans and sift through the ocean, you need automation 1930597;1566617639;BingoBoingo;#pizarro gets a slow, steady number of walk ins 1930598;1566617687;BingoBoingo;Per mircea_popescu's documented experience it seems private messages on www traps is the highest return payload delivery path 1930599;1566617765;lobbes;yeah, and per my "not mutually exclusive?" I don't see why you can't have both automation AND good ad copy is all 1930600;1566617909;lobbes;in any case, I think trinque is pretty good at ad copy writing >> http://archive.is/WxgwM 1930601;1566617934;lobbes;and once asciilifeform's hands are free, I think he will be able to focus on the automated bits iirc 1930602;1566618287;trinque;man, as soon as somebody writes that automated lead generator we'll all retire with girls wrapped around our cocks just like mp. 1930603;1566618346;trinque;it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent. 1930604;1566619226;BingoBoingo;It was a bit of a surprise to me, but outside the wire... cockwrapping girls are easy to find. Like mp's or not like mp's is a matter of scarce head quality. Tomorrow, I'm going to have to put another dump out on my fight in the realm of what asciilifeform calls "unbounded symbols" and the enemy calls "modern democracy". There is a 10-12% chance per heathen polls that the risk profile of Pizarro in Uruguay elevates substantially over 1930605;1566619226;BingoBoingo;derps ritually marking papers. 1930606;1566619437;trinque;yes, I can angularly yap in my pet direction too. 1930607;1566619445;trinque;what are you going to do to grow your business? 1930608;1566620064;BingoBoingo;Tomorrow I am going to try the cuntoo genesis scripts on the test machine with a differrent set of found kernel configs while the Uruguayos play their annual independence day death race game. Then I'll ask alf if we have multithreading on ARM yet and suggest his next payload consist of either 4 full 1U AMD64 box, 2 1Ubox and 8 PCengines APU, or 3 1Ubox and 4 APU. 1930609;1566620126;BingoBoingo;It isn't simply that I don't write new code that works, its that I've only ever successfully coded anyting with my delete key 1930610;1566621065;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: wat is this.. it would seem that trinque is offering his services ? why the immediate refusal? find out what he would like in recompense, and what offers. 1930611;1566621088;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/how-colocation-america-almost-lost-my-business-but-saved-themselves-in-the-end-for-now-at-least/ << lobbesblog -- How "Colocation America" almost lost my business, but saved themselves in the end (for now, at least) 1930612;1566621299;lobbes;!!v C4B7C053621BD1B438C068FBBFB194A30BC686F06B4DF548801933DA6C583534 1930613;1566621302;deedbot;lobbes paid BingoBoingo invoice 7 1930614;1566622018;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'm not refusing at all. I'm simply stating where it seems our outlook on the next hardware move is as of this moment, my admission of code generation inability Spanish hasn't helped, and I've highlighted an edge case risk (The Colorado Talvi as Prissident) which hangs over Pizarro's physical presence. 1930615;1566622551;BingoBoingo;And I am indeed giving Cuntoo another try because linux kernel shit is nearly Argentine cyanoacrylate level shit. The kernel config is an essential piece of making the orchestra string yet because shitgnomes it is a very rough edge to the fault of noone here but plenty of people out of here. 1930616;1566623698;lobbes;I gotta say, the last ~20 or so lines have been one weird conversation. I think trinque was trying to say "pizarro needs sales yesterday, want help with it?" and BingoBoingo was trying to say "sure but automation of marketing is also important". Somehow none of the points connected despite everyone seemingly being in agreement (and my attempts at articulating it I don't think helped either) 1930617;1566623704;lobbes;anyways I'm off to learn more awk and then bed 1930618;1566623737;BingoBoingo;lobbes: This is a very fair read 1930619;1566624298;BingoBoingo;In formerly local news, a classmate from undergrad is dead after executing a search warrant in East Saint Louis. 1930620;1566632308;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930548 <-> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930555 how about you stop asking each other stupid questions and do stuff instead! yes, they need everything, what can you do ? 1930621;1566632308;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 23:19:54 trinque: all of this posturing aside, do y'all want someone that gives a shit about selling pizarro accounts? need any help with that? 1930622;1566632308;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 23:30:52 BingoBoingo: all of this posturing aside, do y'all want someone that gives a shit about selling pizarro accounts? need any help with that? << A solution to automate private message placement on heathen forums is desired. 1930623;1566632552;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930568 << conversely, if you're interested, it's the [http://trilema.com/2019/a-little-bit-of-that-old-world-charm-style-grace/#comment-131048][cazalla]-esque "i'll remember about this place i used to be cool at whenever i'm drunk / argue with the wifey, but put 0 effort into either documenting myself or actually changing". 1930624;1566632553;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 00:28:22 trinque: it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent. 1930625;1566632613;mircea_popescu;one failure mode's not particularly better than the other ; nor is failure this magical and "nobody could have predicted"-y thing. your neglected blog's exactly like phf's neglected blog, and it drives the same sort of stupidity in both of you, for the same reasons, in the same ways. 1930626;1566632668;mircea_popescu;"butthurt"'s not even getting close. however you're misrepresenting it to yourself, what you're actually doing is fucking yourself over. 1930627;1566632814;mircea_popescu;the actual reality of the matter is this : that nicole could very well http://trilema.com/2018/meet-miss-piggy/ and yet her cunt didn't fall off ; eric could very well http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/on-relationships-or-how-pretense-kills/ and yet his cock didn't fall off ; but phf couldn't, and is butthole DID fall off. 1930628;1566632912;mircea_popescu;yes, the business inacumen & sheer inability to make money is going to kill "them", slowly but surely. the inability to think about yourself is going to make it irrelevant whether you're killed or not, however. it's one node up. 1930629;1566634281;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, more's the point : are you drinking again ? 1930630;1566640571;hanbot;mircea_popescu #pizarro logs paint a slightly different picture than the exchange above imo, for instance http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-17#1000063 --though looks like trinque never got an answer. looks to me like miscommunication, not particularly lack thereof...though none of this speaks to the "where's this written on your blog" issue. 1930631;1566640571;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 20:38:02 trinque: BingoBoingo: I had another idea re: customer acquisition for y'all. 1930632;1566640708;*;mircea_popescu didn't read #p, sorries. 1930633;1566640725;mircea_popescu;though in fairness, when crossing castle walls one's kindly asked to provide context, plox. 1930634;1566651631;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Last night I was. Today I am brewing coffee, getting thiamine, going to a meeting, asking myself why *this* stupidity again, and sticking my nose back in the book. 1930635;1566652226;trinque;at any rate. I have a coin processor that is only going to be worthwhile if there are services which use processing. 1930636;1566652265;trinque;on the blog front, I've got some weird brewing in response to the tlp seroquel annotation. 1930637;1566652339;trinque;re: my various offers to #p, I'd be happy to fix the website and work on plans for outreach just as an experiment in increasing bot-wallet use 1930638;1566652415;trinque;by fix the website, I mean that it's currently written with #t as an audience, and if folks here were going to buy more #p services, they'd do so based whether BingoBoingo seems to be drinking again, not upon your website. 1930639;1566652422;trinque;website needs to be aimed outward 1930640;1566653190;trinque;I'll be out for a bit, bbl 1930641;1566653865;mircea_popescu;trinque, all of this is quite reasonable. what worries me, specifically, is the (by now sadly well documented) process whereby danielpbarron / mod6 / phf / etc 1. stop talking "because busy working", then 2. stop reading and then 3 "inexplicably" start "having problems", all very "varied" and "impredictable" subjectively, but from outside all very fucking transparently the same one thing. 1930642;1566653944;mircea_popescu;now, to take things apart : i don't think pizarro is sustainable as it stands. BingoBoingo 's been there for years now, and he's already showing the wear at the edges. 1930643;1566654015;mircea_popescu;if you'd be interested in helping out on that front, it'll prolly be best if you actually get involved in the partnership outright. none of this "fix the website copy" "helping", erryone wants to do the "helping" of employees whereas republic needs independent men not wage slave wannabe's. 1930644;1566654048;mircea_popescu;in any case itll need a firm committment to a) discussing all the problems b) thoroughly. 1930645;1566654131;mircea_popescu;if it even can be salvaged anymore. but in any case if it continues as is the only possible result's pretty obvious, only the timeframe's perhaps dubious. 1930646;1566654310;mircea_popescu;otherwise, you don't specifically need pizarro to do outreach. you can do outreach on your own, on whatever lines are appealing. trilema is displaying a sexual avenue, "building a harem" ; diana_coman 's younghands thing is sorta 2year community college thing, "come and learn the basics of computing for very reasonable tuition". there's nothing wrong with that. 1930647;1566654399;mircea_popescu;nor is that any kind of an exhaustive list. build a 3d art studio if you fucking feel like it, hire two or twelve dozen +ev animators to make things. buy some real estate for rental/airbnb-ing and run the damned thing as your castle, buy a buncha cab medallions do that, pretty much ~anything~ can be it. 1930648;1566654527;mircea_popescu;there's literally no limit in anyone's way and all i hear for the past month is butthurt over "abuse" "cults" "worship" etcetera. what the fuck already, whole idea's a) do something ; b) show people ; c) get ~useful~ feedback. this cycle ALWAYS worked to date, no exception, so the common mind response's to... stop engaging ? what, is failure such a delightful thing gotta SOMEHOW ensure it ? 1930649;1566654566;mircea_popescu;nobody's YET -ev for engaging in the a-b-c. not even once. so wtf. 1930650;1566654611;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, wtf, seriously ? what, are you bored over there, what is it ? 1930651;1566656273;BingoBoingo;Curiosity, nostalgia, and the late winter blahs beat the idea, grown faint over time, that I don't even enjoy drinking. Loading up on caffeine, water, and vitamins has me feeling much more like a person than when I woke up today. 1930652;1566656398;mircea_popescu;incidentally, lobbes : as a purely off the cuff notion, if you feel like taking a trip to UY to evaluate whether "a new life" awaits for you there, we might be able to work something out! 1930653;1566656402;mircea_popescu;does the notion appeal at all ? 1930654;1566656891;diana_coman;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930582 - always good to learn something new but what are you aiming to do exactly? 1930655;1566656891;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 01:57:40 lobbes: anyways I'm off to learn more awk and then bed 1930656;1566658114;mircea_popescu;"We have issued a warning to our technician who did not feel like installing something he was unfamiliar with." keks 1930657;1566662591;*;asciilifeform eats log 1930658;1566662681;asciilifeform;holyfuq BingoBoingo ? drink? we dun have a spare BingoBoingo . 1930659;1566662802;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930573 << why 'ask alf if we have multithreading on ARM', ffs, it was ave1's piece (and he seems to have awol again), afaik no one even has it on operating table atm 1930660;1566662803;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 00:56:59 BingoBoingo: Tomorrow I am going to try the cuntoo genesis scripts on the test machine with a differrent set of found kernel configs while the Uruguayos play their annual independence day death race game. Then I'll ask alf if we have multithreading on ARM yet and suggest his next payload consist of either 4 full 1U AMD64 box, 2 1Ubox and 8 PCengines APU, or 3 1Ubox and 4 APU. 1930661;1566663233;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930585 << and yes we need erry possible expertise! BingoBoingo yer 1st q for trinque oughta have been 'what'll it cost' . this being said, we're flat outta what to sell, it is impermissible to delay any longer the irons ! 1930662;1566663234;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 04:21:04 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930548 <-> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930555 how about you stop asking each other stupid questions and do stuff instead! yes, they need everything, what can you do ? 1930663;1566663327;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo unless you have a specific objection , i'ma go with 2x opteron (as already specced!) + 6x rk + 4x apu 1 . ( despite lack of adult gnat for rk , it continues to sell, really is the closest thing we have to an in-demand item ) 1930664;1566663337;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Yes, the compilers thing is on ave1 table, but I have to trust that you better understand the compiler situation. 1930665;1566663411;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i also would like to find what it'd cost to widen the pipe. AND how much currently is eaten, and by whom. i have dark suspicion currently that we're dangerously low on pipe. 1930666;1566663466;asciilifeform;i.e. it WILL have to be widened, and also possible that the 'all you can eat' model of divvying it up is not practical. 1930667;1566663495;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i assume you read log, and did notice that e.g. mircea_popescu was getting 10 kB (!) / sec !! 1930668;1566663596;mircea_popescu;.388s right nao on same system 1930669;1566663619;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: .388s for what mass of pg ? 1930670;1566663633;mircea_popescu;same exact curl as i quoted yest, it's in the history 1930671;1566663644;mircea_popescu;the one that was 24s befoar 1930672;1566663652;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ftr my own measurements are wildly variant, i suspect the 3 ( 4? ) trb nodes are bursting and eating pipe 1930673;1566663661;mircea_popescu;possibru 1930674;1566663692;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and ffs , let's engage trinque immediately. agree on reasonable commission with him, if he wants one. and find what he's willing to do. 1930675;1566663772;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and remember that yer the current chairman. dun let yerself get incapacitated, asciilifeform is not expert in chairmaning , but someone has to actually fucking steer the thing, or we're sunk, irons or no irons 1930676;1566663817;mircea_popescu;lol, wait, he got sent to the penal chairman batallion ? 1930677;1566663833;asciilifeform;lol 1930678;1566663841;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'll draft an inquiry to fire off on Monday about pricing more pipe. 1930679;1566663850;mircea_popescu;wtf criteria is this, "you're the angel, im not expert angel" 1930680;1566663957;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: more like 'if colonel aint answering, major will have to act on own position w/out answer!' 1930681;1566664066;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: find what has to be done re the other q also (what is eating pipe??) 1930682;1566664117;BingoBoingo;trinque: let me know what sort of incentive or commision structure would interest you. Also as mircea_popescu suggested, think about engaging asciilifeform and mod6 about the chair... 1930683;1566664204;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: mod6 , near as i can tell, is incapacitated. and i'm essentially prisoner. yer the current chair. 1930684;1566664368;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: If trinque decides he wants to come in as an owner-partner, that is a conversation you and mod6 will have to handle as the owner-partners. 1930685;1566664400;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, you got no interest in pizarro as of yet ? 1930686;1566664402;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and remember that you did not end up with the work by happenstance, but because yer the 1 with all of the necessary skill. but you WILL have to avoid turning into mod6 , or no amt of expert will be able to help. 1930687;1566664410;mircea_popescu;i recall a lot of wrangling re warrants/options back in the dat 1930688;1566664511;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if trinque wants in -- i'm entirely in favour . fella currently runs a meatspace biz, in 1 of the most hostile environments imaginable, and as i understand -- successfully 1930689;1566664532;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1930690;1566665094;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930619 << I am attempting to bake a 'logotron_lite' that will spit out static html logs from ZNC/irssi logs in the style of [http://logs.minigame.biz/latest.log.html][the classic #e logs], but without needing the pyturds used in the [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/irclog2html-genesis/][heathen irclog2html] 1930691;1566665094;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 11:10:48 diana_coman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930582 - always good to learn something new but what are you aiming to do exactly? 1930692;1566665103;lobbes;I'm thinking I can perhaps do the html-izing bits 100% in awk and bash, tho for the bot echoing and search bits I think those will need at least a sqlite database and php 1930693;1566665123;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930617 << it does appeal, but I know before even taking a trip I need to sort a few things out on the homefront here (namely getting ex-girl outta my mortgaged house, selling house, etc.). Hard to say one way or another where I'll be in a year atm. 1930694;1566665123;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 11:02:36 mircea_popescu: incidentally, lobbes : as a purely off the cuff notion, if you feel like taking a trip to UY to evaluate whether "a new life" awaits for you there, we might be able to work something out! 1930695;1566665130;lobbes;I've begun charting the local bdsm scene here in charlotte for e.g., so who knows, that may yield fruit or it may not. Trying to get out of my shell and meet people who know things and do some meat networking locally for the time-being (this will all be in a blog post(s) once I do enough initial charting). Aside from that, financially speaking my short-term actions will be to keep my expenses low and 1930696;1566665136;lobbes;regroup. 1930697;1566665137;lobbes;I'll keep it in the back of my head tho 1930698;1566665175;BingoBoingo;lobbes: A trip doesn't have to be forever. 1930699;1566665192;mircea_popescu;i confess i don't understand the difficulty. you call the realtor tell them the house is to go up for sale asap and call the police tell them someone's in your house please take them out. 1930700;1566665193;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I negotiated with mod6 1 BTC cash compensation due September for managing pizarro September 1, 2018 to September 1st, 2019. In the early days with ben_vulpes at the helm there was warrant wrangling. Even if I had warrant wrangled the asciilifeform and mod6 ownership interests would still dwarf mine. Having the negotiation of their interests in an equity deal added to my plate seems like an incredible increase in 1930701;1566665193;BingoBoingo;responsibility here. 1930702;1566665207;mircea_popescu;between the two it should be done by... i dunno, monday ? 1930703;1566665246;lobbes;mircea_popescu: yeah, I think I'm overcomplicating it. I talked to an attorney yest. and they said the same thing really 1930704;1566665258;lobbes;'just call the police' 1930705;1566665263;mircea_popescu;anyway, i'm not trying to make you go to uruguay. 1930706;1566665281;mircea_popescu;nfi why you'd want to spend $500 or w/e a lawyer wants per hour for walk-in just for that tbh 1930707;1566665324;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, aite. 1930708;1566665325;lobbes;well I wanted to avoid any of the classic 'reich traps'; for e.g. back in MA they have the 'common law marriage' thing (or used to at least) 1930709;1566665339;mircea_popescu;that'll have to be argued in some kind of court. 1930710;1566665341;lobbes;but luckily I'm in NC nao; no such things 1930711;1566665398;lobbes;and I'd love to visit BingoBoingo, but I also want to save a bit first to go on my own fuel in a sense 1930712;1566665472;lobbes;plus I only have so many weeks that I can take off from the salt mines, and I want to take time to visit old meat friends as well. Trying to plan out the order of operations I guess 1930713;1566665482;mircea_popescu;lobbes, ok, hear this out. 1930714;1566665491;*;lobbes listens 1930715;1566665500;mircea_popescu;i'd have no problem advancing some cash for the purpose. you can go there for say a month, see if you can / want to make a life for yourself there. 1930716;1566665536;mircea_popescu;on your end, one advantage is that indeed the expenses are significantly less than fucking boston. if you can manage to get employment remote, it'll give you a lot more free income than any of the carefully engineered to no tleave you anything us jobs 1930717;1566665555;mircea_popescu;also, presuming you need a new gf, it is possible better material in uy than ma / nc 1930718;1566665587;mircea_popescu;on my end, IF you actually like it there i guess we could start a little republican coven, buy a house and have more convenient anchoring. 1930719;1566665625;mircea_popescu;i wouldn't necessarily mind owning some uy real estate, if its actually being used by the lordship. 1930720;1566665639;mircea_popescu;but all these are ifs, naught else 1930721;1566665642;mircea_popescu;~fin~ 1930722;1566665697;lobbes;interesting indeed. I will seriously consider 1930723;1566665980;mircea_popescu;as an added benefit, if your mortage's underwater, you can just walk away. mail the bank the keys and that's that. 1930724;1566665996;mircea_popescu;you're stuck being out of reich for ~6 years or so, but w/e, your republican credit's good. 1930725;1566666014;lobbes;really, all of my 'school debts' in the same manner could just... well disappear 1930726;1566666022;BingoBoingo;lobbes: Test driving the place is important as well on the "if you like it front" 1930727;1566666033;lobbes;true 1930728;1566666035;BingoBoingo; really, all of my 'school debts' in the same manner could just... well disappear << They do 1930729;1566666058;mircea_popescu;lobbes, generally they'll take a renegotiation, but basically... not depending on reich is always better than depending. 1930730;1566666094;mircea_popescu;anyway, these are large questions and nobody can answer for you, so don't take lightly. 1930731;1566666116;lobbes;very true. at least I have the ability to think on such questions these days 1930732;1566666169;lobbes;and I think I could actually manage to get a month to work remotely at current job; my co-worker for e.g. went for 4 weeks to his home in Israel and worked remotely, so wai couldn't I? 1930733;1566666184;mircea_popescu;i couldn't tell you dood. 1930734;1566666193;lobbes;no I know, it was rhetorical 1930735;1566666196;mircea_popescu;:p 1930736;1566666224;BingoBoingo;lobbes: All any fiatists in Uruguay care about here is whether you are in "clearing" or not. If you pay your Uruguay bills, you stay out of clearing and all is good. You don't pay your Uruguay bills, you go in clearing and outer barrio sadness awaits. 1930737;1566666257;mircea_popescu;wth is a clearing ? 1930738;1566666363;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: It's the English word they stole to mean something. The way credit reporting works here for individuals, all they can say is whether the person in question is in default or not. 1930739;1566666397;mircea_popescu;oh oh, i see. 1930740;1566666430;BingoBoingo;Here they just randomly adopt English words and put attach wildly different meanings to them. 1930741;1566666439;mircea_popescu;i rememeber 1930742;1566666537;BingoBoingo;While shop can be a verb or noun in English, with shopping a clear conjugation of the verb shop... Here, shopping is the noun and WTF is a shop. 1930743;1566666680;BingoBoingo;As the Peruana learns English she runs into many "Uruguayo pretends to know English" traps. She's still got quite a ways to go before getting a a key and being genesis'd into Republican personhood. 1930744;1566666791;*;mircea_popescu is rooting for peruana nevertheless. 1930745;1566666885;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930660 << i didn't realise you were interested o.O 1930746;1566666886;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 13:28:08 lobbes: I've begun charting the local bdsm scene here in charlotte for e.g., so who knows, that may yield fruit or it may not. Trying to get out of my shell and meet people who know things and do some meat networking locally for the time-being (this will all be in a blog post(s) once I do enough initial charting). Aside from that, financially speaking my short-term actions will be to keep my expenses low and 1930747;1566667001;lobbes;yeah, been interested for a while. But being stuck in last relationship prevented me from actually exploring that realm. Thing is that I have 0 experience, so gotta start somewhere 1930748;1566667017;mircea_popescu;i c! 1930749;1566667074;lobbes;went to my first 'munch' as they call it a few days ago; met some cool enough people at least. got another one today in a few hours. will see! 1930750;1566667090;mircea_popescu;well then, enjoy. 1930751;1566667112;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930684 << holyfuq, i get up for tea and mircea_popescu offers to lend a battleship ! 1930752;1566667112;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 13:36:24 mircea_popescu: i wouldn't necessarily mind owning some uy real estate, if its actually being used by the lordship. 1930753;1566667125;mircea_popescu;it's the natural progression, no ? 1930754;1566667152;*;asciilifeform already 'worx remote', could easily do multi-week tours of duty in BingoBoingostan, if we had such a thing 1930755;1566667161;mircea_popescu;mmm 1930756;1566667166;mircea_popescu;did you even like it ? 1930757;1566667185;asciilifeform;pretty sure i described liking 1930758;1566667205;mircea_popescu;i for some reason had the impression you rather didn't. nfi why, couldn't point to anything. 1930759;1566667212;lobbes;I remember asciilifeform raving over the cheese 1930760;1566667216;mircea_popescu;so then, if you like it, go scout for a house ? 1930761;1566667241;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo at one time obsessively scouted , threw into log coupla dozen specimens he liked 1930762;1566667258;mircea_popescu;no but i mean, 3-4 bedroom sorta thing. 1930763;1566667265;asciilifeform;he seems to keep up to date with the local real estate map, even. 1930764;1566667275;mircea_popescu;2 level, standalone. you know, house. 1930765;1566667302;asciilifeform;right, he went all around the city and bloodhounded. BingoBoingo plox to update mircea_popescu re findings. 1930766;1566667312;mircea_popescu;*thumbsup* 1930767;1566667482;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930655 << this is potentially good idea, and iirc mircea_popescu described a recipe where can even be made from straight mp's-wp 1930768;1566667482;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 13:27:32 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930619 << I am attempting to bake a 'logotron_lite' that will spit out static html logs from ZNC/irssi logs in the style of [http://logs.minigame.biz/latest.log.html][the classic #e logs], but without needing the pyturds used in the [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/irclog2html-genesis/][heathen irclog2html] 1930769;1566667556;asciilifeform;( as i understand, tho, mine is actually faster, in re page generation, than a wp-based item would be; but imho oughta have ~different~ variants of logtron, not only 1 ) 1930770;1566667668;mircea_popescu;this'd just be displayatron 1930771;1566667737;asciilifeform;right. ( as i understand one couldn't actually bot in php , it's made to run in bursts ) 1930772;1566667763;mircea_popescu;yeah 1930773;1566667780;mircea_popescu;most hosts autokill scripts running > half min or so 1930774;1566667839;asciilifeform;aha, presumes 'wedged' 1930775;1566667851;lobbes;true. for the bot I think I may just take asciilifeform's item and hack it to use sqlite 1930776;1566667876;lobbes;so, pyturds would be in the mix, but not in the main log generation at least 1930777;1566667881;asciilifeform;lobbes: oughta be quite trivial. ( early phuctor sat on sqlite ) 1930778;1566667936;asciilifeform;lobbes: i have a (not mature) variant of the bot, where all sqlism is removed, and when encounters new line it makes a 'post' req to a set url (that answers only on localhost) on the other end, instead of writing to db 1930779;1566667969;asciilifeform;lobbes: this would decouple entirely bot from db. but i left it alone, preferring to get working variant out the door asap 1930780;1566667991;mircea_popescu;could also just dump in flatfile 1930781;1566668023;asciilifeform;could. but then search is complicated, you do want to index the text 1930782;1566668039;mircea_popescu;grep :D 1930783;1566668046;asciilifeform;( the <1s search folx are accustomed to, aint happening with straight grepism ) 1930784;1566668120;asciilifeform;iirc phf didn't bother with indexing, simply kept all of log in memory and did equiv. of grep. but this only scales to a point. 1930785;1566668144;mircea_popescu;true 1930786;1566668153;asciilifeform;tbf could actually work for a rather long time -- the collective mass of the 6 chans logged by snsabot is atm <100MB 1930787;1566668177;mircea_popescu;indeed. i got boxes with 256gb 1930788;1566668205;asciilifeform;i rather like being able to use structured queries on the thing by hand, tho 1930789;1566668211;lobbes;plus with grep I'd imagine you open the door to 'rce' vulnerabilities. vs a sqlite db you can have trivial backups 1930790;1566668215;mircea_popescu;makes sense. 1930791;1566668229;mircea_popescu;lobbes, flatfile backup is one cp 1930792;1566668252;*;asciilifeform when 1st tuned in, eschewed dbism, spat. today has shelf of dead tree even on subj. and in fact ate most of it. 1930793;1566668262;mircea_popescu;:p 1930794;1566668266;*;mircea_popescu did that!!!!1 1930795;1566668284;asciilifeform;in fact did. and iirc trinque et al also prodded. 1930796;1566668289;mircea_popescu;aha. 1930797;1566668295;asciilifeform;resulted in <1s phuctor search etc. 1930798;1566668363;asciilifeform;after phuctor, where dataset is 100+GB , puzzlers like log search felt comparatively painless 1930799;1566668688;*;asciilifeform looks sadly at his O(1) indexer for bitcoin , which could be driven into battlefield if only found fix for that [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-10-25#1866266][gnat bugola] 1930800;1566668689;snsabot;Logged on 2018-10-25 22:14:23 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics ) 1930801;1566668732;asciilifeform;^ 1 example of db job where traditional sqlistic db (which presumes need for inexpensive mutability and complex queries) aint appropriate 1930802;1566668834;asciilifeform;^ was actually the 1st nontrivial proggy asciilifeform wrote in ada, just prior to picking up ffa 1930803;1566669074;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930756 << ftr, right nao it loox like : pg_dump nsalog | gzip > /home/nsabot/log_db.gz; and on dulap , eats <8sec . ( getting the output to other boxes, however... ) 1930804;1566669075;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 14:19:48 mircea_popescu: lobbes, flatfile backup is one cp 1930805;1566669160;asciilifeform;( ~eating~ 1 of these, takes ~10min. cuz pg gotta regenerate the indices, naturally ) 1930806;1566669251;asciilifeform;afaik lobbes is the current champ in 'replicate asciilifeform's logger' , has working copy, and i expect will say moar later 1930807;1566675577;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-can-the-court-force-treatment-on-jared-loughner-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Can The Court Force Treatment on Jared Loughner? Adnotated. 1930808;1566677800;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/08/24/making-chili-con-carne-in-uruguay/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Making Chili Con Carne In Uruguay 1930809;1566679329;mircea_popescu;in which i wonder whether BingoBoingo is actually named for the adriano celentano movie 1930810;1566679525;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: comment in modqueue 1930811;1566679587;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol, is that a primus ?! 1930812;1566679772;mircea_popescu;done. 1930813;1566680318;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: smaller lighter thing. 1930814;1566680505;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: No, but I'lll have to watch the movie now 1930815;1566681067;mircea_popescu;ikr. 1930816;1566682517;diana_coman;as I totally forgot: I confirm that diana_alt was indeed me talking in here and in #o. 1930817;1566687943;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/08/the-maid/ << Bimbo.Club -- The maid. 1930818;1566691682;mircea_popescu;nicoleci, lol top keks. 1930819;1566691747;mircea_popescu;in other subtle perfections, the dude who supervised installing my ac arranged for the condensation drip to go straight into my lovage bush 1930820;1566691751;mircea_popescu;that thing is HAPPY 1930821;1566692577;BingoBoingo;That's a win right there. 1930822;1566692677;nicoleci;mircea_popescu, haha thanks & maybe he should get his own post, spread the word on lovage 1930823;1566695622;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: congrats on getting the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-18#1923452]['pre-ban'] ac 1930824;1566695622;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-18 23:05:37 asciilifeform: in other lulzy orc tech: [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923170][that lolconditioner] apparently has even moar interesting misfeature : no drain. yes. exhaust fan has paddle that is supposed to throw water from condensate pan through the hot-end grille. (i.e. sounds at all times like running faucet. and , reportedly, guaranteed to grow black mold and eventually leak into room... ) 1930825;1566695643;asciilifeform;grr where was that classic photo of 'mp light bulb' 1930826;1566695675;mircea_popescu;did you see the shots of fuck you we use cfc unit ? 1930827;1566695690;asciilifeform;aha. but iirc was already the brominated cfc 1930828;1566695699;asciilifeform;( at least not isobutane ! tho ) 1930829;1566695702;mircea_popescu;no ? 1930830;1566695992;asciilifeform;hrm can't seem to find ~that~ ac in o(1) either.. 1930831;1566696064;asciilifeform;( thought it was in the 1st warsaw phototour but apparently not.. ) 1930832;1566696412;asciilifeform;aa, was [http://trilema.com/2019/kiev-the-continuation/#identifier_2_86380][kiev] . 1930833;1566696499;asciilifeform;r410a -- difluoromethane + pentafluoromethane, apparently. same as in my auto. 1930834;1566696599;mircea_popescu;is that a bad thing ? 1930835;1566696645;asciilifeform;afaik the least nasty of the faux-freons. 1930836;1566696791;asciilifeform;( tho -- unlike classical freon -- it does burn. ) 1930837;1566696892;mircea_popescu;supposedly more energy efficient than ye olde r22 1930838;1566696936;asciilifeform;isobutane supposedly evenmoar efficient, in theory. 1930839;1566697031;mircea_popescu;amusingly, r11/r12 still widely used even today 1930840;1566697038;asciilifeform;classical freon. 1930841;1566697046;mircea_popescu;not in ac (really useless for ac with modern tech), but for... polyurethane blowout 1930842;1566697125;asciilifeform;interesting -- i'd have naively imagined that'd use n2 or other cheap unreactive gas 1930843;1566697144;mircea_popescu;ikr ? 1930844;1566697182;asciilifeform;possibly the refrigerative coefficient actually matters in the blowout 1930845;1566701252;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930608 << this is possible, but it wont be a good-money-after-bad thing, which is why I'm first yammering about what I want fixed, not throwing money. 1930846;1566701252;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 10:22:53 mircea_popescu: if you'd be interested in helping out on that front, it'll prolly be best if you actually get involved in the partnership outright. none of this "fix the website copy" "helping", erryone wants to do the "helping" of employees whereas republic needs independent men not wage slave wannabe's. 1930847;1566701358;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930613 << to be clear, I'm not butthurt at mircea_popescu, nor criticizing him. I was taking shots at folks speaking importantly while this afaik important piece of republican infrastructure doesn't look too healthy. 1930848;1566701359;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 10:31:24 mircea_popescu: there's literally no limit in anyone's way and all i hear for the past month is butthurt over "abuse" "cults" "worship" etcetera. what the fuck already, whole idea's a) do something ; b) show people ; c) get ~useful~ feedback. this cycle ALWAYS worked to date, no exception, so the common mind response's to... stop engaging ? what, is failure such a delightful thing gotta SOMEHOW ensure it ? 1930849;1566701583;asciilifeform;meanwhile: [http://trilema.com/2014/the-wisdom-of-crowds-apparently-it-mostly-depends-on-the-crowds-in-question/][today's trilemalotto] . 1930850;1566701686;asciilifeform;trinque: your fixes are a++ and imho oughta be put in service asap. 1930851;1566701702;trinque;have awstats on the site or anything? 1930852;1566701738;asciilifeform;trinque: my current fixation is irons, we're fresh outta vacant irons. 1930853;1566701759;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo when you wake up -- do we have site stats ? 1930854;1566701902;asciilifeform;trinque while we're on subj of open problems, didja ever comment re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-24#1924558 ? 1930855;1566701903;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-24 12:01:18 asciilifeform: and atm 'back to chalkboard' re how to answer it 1930856;1566702011;asciilifeform;asciilifeform attempted frontal attack of ^ problem, but broke teeth, 0 to show for it. 1930857;1566702114;trinque;I mean, my inner emulated asciilifeform says there's no such thing as isolated sessions on shared hardware 1930858;1566702146;trinque;moreover are there enough customers that care? 1930859;1566702171;asciilifeform;trinque: was thinking of vandalism-isolation, rather than cryptologic. 1930860;1566702190;trinque;could just use the linux "namespaces" thing 1930861;1566702194;asciilifeform;1 hoses machine, n-1 remaining -- will care. 1930862;1566702206;asciilifeform;namespaces? 1930863;1566702261;trinque;http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/namespaces.7.html 1930864;1566702313;asciilifeform;trinque: the namespaces thing does 0 against kernel privescs. which are ~dime/dozen. 1930865;1566702347;trinque;just depends on where you want the bar 1930866;1566702458;asciilifeform;atm bar is set scandalously low. pretty much anyone can format hdd (or subtler vandalism) of a shared linux box he has any form of acct on, with week or 2 of effort. 1930867;1566702494;asciilifeform;and, moreover, leave 0 footprint of just-which user set off the boojum. 1930868;1566702586;trinque;no real proposal here other than to do what others do. 1930869;1566702600;trinque;that doesn't help you differentiate much. 1930870;1566702618;asciilifeform;i fatwa'd 'xen', 'qemu', etc. 1930871;1566702628;trinque;ever considered offering specific services rather than commodity server boxen? 1930872;1566702635;asciilifeform;reliably good for 5-6 lethal 0day erry month, these 1930873;1566702670;asciilifeform;trinque: atm there is 'wp service'. can't presently think what else could offer 1930874;1566702845;trinque;my dear old dad never once asked me whether he needed a server, but he has asked me whether he should have a VPN 1930875;1566702869;trinque;I'm not addressing whether he actually needs a VPN, but how hard is it to take p crypto and make a VPN? 1930876;1566702876;asciilifeform;lol at least not asked if needs 'keybase' yet.. 1930877;1566702902;trinque;laughed my ass off when he asked me whether some shitcoin was any good. at least he asks! 1930878;1566702978;asciilifeform;trinque: principal difficulty re 'vpn' is 1) it's a fundamentally dumb product 2) attracts nuisances which reliably draw fire ( spam, frontal baitings of usg , etc ) 3) reqs ridiculous amt of pipe 1930879;1566702979;trinque;I'm curious whether there's a market for the VPN item. gets the republican network layer paid for, if so. 1930880;1566703096;asciilifeform;there's defo a... market, for vpnism, just like there is a market for 'mail drops' to relay goods bought with stolen cc's, etc. just not clear that it's a market you'd want to be involved in. 1930881;1566703354;asciilifeform;observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly. 1930882;1566703561;asciilifeform;trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind. 1930883;1566703830;trinque;you should build for from whom you wish to take money, not yourself 1930884;1566703869;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930840 << this is interesting enuff to merit own answer. on 3Ghz opteron, and with bvt's asm , could perhaps get even 28 kbaud ! of rsa.. 1930885;1566703870;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 23:57:09 trinque: I'm not addressing whether he actually needs a VPN, but how hard is it to take p crypto and make a VPN? 1930886;1566703977;asciilifeform;trinque: re 'build for from whom', i cannot possibly disagree. but extremely skeptical that vpnism ~can~ be supplied economically by honest (i.e. not subsidized by washington) vendor, even in principle. 1930887;1566704093;trinque;current limiter is the lack of fat pipe, eh? 1930888;1566704130;asciilifeform;most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers 1930889;1566704211;asciilifeform;each of whom would be willing to pay perhaps even equiv of 20bux/mo. i.e. collectively not even 10% cost of that pipe .. 1930890;1566704358;asciilifeform;this also touches so far strictly cost of pipe, and omits cost of disposal of the 1st 'genius' who starts serving 'pedo club' or spam emporium or whatever other attractive nuisance via his acct 1930891;1566704418;asciilifeform;( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled ) 1930892;1566704563;asciilifeform;i entirely wouldnt mind trying to serve that market; but suspect that it would need to be done from pyongyang, rather than montevideo. 1930893;1566704632;asciilifeform;( aand w/ errybody involved having already left 'the big zone'. ) 1930894;1566704782;trinque;this is possible. I'll think on it more. 1930895;1566704805;trinque;going to turn in for now, night. 1930896;1566704811;asciilifeform;nighty trinque 1930897;1566704866;asciilifeform;ty for picking up the puzzler. fwiw i think erry day about it, but not made anyffin that could be termed breakthrough. 1930898;1566704896;*;asciilifeform also bbl,meat 1930899;1566712921;diana_coman;!!up ave1_away 1930900;1566712921;deedbot;ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes. 1930901;1566712963;ave1_away;diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here 1930902;1566713000;diana_coman;oh hey, nice! going to Ro too? 1930903;1566713011;ave1_away;so yes, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-24#1930659, but I should be back next week 1930904;1566713011;a111;Logged on 2019-08-24 16:06 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930573 << why 'ask alf if we have multithreading on ARM', ffs, it was ave1's piece (and he seems to have awol again), afaik no one even has it on operating table atm 1930905;1566713065;ave1_away;No, unfortunately not on this trip. Ukrainian part is big enogh for now 1930906;1566713103;diana_coman;heh, big but also nearby :P 1930907;1566713124;ave1_away;I'm thinking of going here by car next year, wich would make us a lot more flexible 1930908;1566713173;ave1_away;Or see about renting something big, the way these orcs drive 1930909;1566713331;diana_coman;ave1_away: taxis shouldn't be all that expensive either 1930910;1566713372;ave1_away;My days this week will be very much; get up / shower, enjoy big breakfast, enjoy long walk in the mountains, swimming, nice meal from wood fire, get to bed and fall asleep immediately 1930911;1566713471;ave1_away;even with all the walking, I'm fattening up nicely 1930912;1566713576;diana_coman;sounds like a very restful break at least 1930913;1566713728;ave1_away;taxis are not expensive at all, but I did not yet find one I would trust to drive me more than 100km 1930914;1566713900;diana_coman;hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km 1930915;1566713941;diana_coman;strictly on the face of it, you'd just move by 100km per taxi then, lol. 1930916;1566714037;ave1_away;well, drive locally where they know their way vs drive further, 100km simply magical cutt-off in my brain 1930917;1566714127;ave1_away;most taxis here, cars from early nighties, non working suspension, no belts etc. 1930918;1566714158;ave1_away;Currenlty we've been using the train for long distance 1930919;1566714173;diana_coman;heh, comes with nice meal from wood fire (and the smoke too, came instantly to mind ) 1930920;1566714301;ave1_away;yes, train definitely sovjet experience 1930921;1566714493;ave1_away;as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt. 1930922;1566714508;ave1_away;The build script will then be based on this genesis 1930923;1566714591;diana_coman;sounds clear and a firm starting point to work from at least 1930924;1566714739;diana_coman;!!up ave1_away 1930925;1566714739;deedbot;ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes. 1930926;1566715135;ave1_away;somehow, I was think that I should genesis the build script first 1930927;1566715148;ave1_away;and then have diffs of patch files 1930928;1566715201;diana_coman;ave1_away: well, the build script requires all sorts so it makes sense to have as genesis a complete starting point if possible 1930929;1566715203;ave1_away;but then, while walking I thought, no, it needs to be the other way around 1930930;1566715300;ave1_away;first genesis all the parts, next build scripts (if at all needed by then) 1930931;1566715309;diana_coman;makes sense 1930932;1566715858;ave1_away;well, breakfast ready, so bbl 1930933;1566716520;diana_coman;enjoy! 1930934;1566716552;diana_coman;!!up ave1_away 1930935;1566716553;deedbot;ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes. 1930936;1566730080;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930823 << this is the golden ticket here. 1930937;1566730081;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 23:45:07 trinque: moreover are there enough customers that care? 1930938;1566730103;mircea_popescu;this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT. 1930939;1566730141;mircea_popescu;re awstats : there's no rule you gotta run it on the machine i nquestion. awstats will process ~any~ log in most standard formats, can just have an awstats box. 1930940;1566730153;mircea_popescu;all it wants is the hitlog. 1930941;1566730213;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk 1930942;1566730214;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 23:50:19 asciilifeform: atm bar is set scandalously low. pretty much anyone can format hdd (or subtler vandalism) of a shared linux box he has any form of acct on, with week or 2 of effort. 1930943;1566730217;mircea_popescu;all they need to say is hi! 1930944;1566730329;*;mircea_popescu is rater on alf's side re vpn product notion ; though this may be borne of ignorance, i don't think i ever bought one. 1930945;1566730411;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED. 1930946;1566730412;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 00:18:11 asciilifeform: most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers 1930947;1566730475;mircea_popescu;(yes, believe it or not, i ran a "all films reviewed on trilema" server for like... a year. to see if anything interesting happens. major pipe and everything, came to high four figures all told, mostly hardware, soem sweat to get it up. 1930948;1566730514;mircea_popescu;NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.) 1930949;1566730611;mircea_popescu;it was, i guess, sorta pleasant to see the thing keep the pipe full at all times, 100s of conns, if you do the math that's 4232690270208000 bytes' worth of good films i contributed to the ethers. 1930950;1566730715;*;mircea_popescu chalked it up against his [http://trilema.com/2016/just-call-me-annah/?b=mitz&e=vah#select][mitzvah] account an' moved on. 1930951;1566730978;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930856 << yes. the empire of stupid may be ~ultimately~ stupid, but up to there it's constructively stupid, can't just wade in head on 1930952;1566730979;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled ) 1930953;1566731027;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930866 << you wanna have a cuppa coffee in timisoara sometime this coming week ? 1930954;1566731028;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 02:45:24 ave1_away: diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here 1930955;1566731099;mircea_popescu;oh. keks, we missed each other in ukrlands. how didja like kiev ? 1930956;1566731163;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930878 << well, you get out of urbanity ? im guessing. 1930957;1566731164;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 03:01:02 diana_coman: hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km 1930958;1566731203;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 << sweet. 1930959;1566731204;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt. 1930960;1566731864;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 <-- imho the right thing would be to eventually steal "[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-07-27#1925131][everything]". i'ma definitely do that for hunchentoot, tho I expect it'll take a while, given that I keep stumbling upon binaries and utfisms in these coads 1930961;1566731865;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt. 1930962;1566731865;snsabot;Logged on 2019-07-27 12:51:02 mp_en_viaje: as far as your practical example : do not genesis parts ; include the 12 things in yoru genersis if they are needed. 1930963;1566731902;mircea_popescu;aha 1930964;1566732275;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930601 <-- the way I read mircea_popescu's comment re. blog was "if you're doing something interesting, then it's worth documenting". e.g. I know zilch about making [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930568][red cents] and would read if trinque found it worthwhile to write about his experience. 1930965;1566732275;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 09:53:42 trinque: on the blog front, I've got some weird brewing in response to the tlp seroquel annotation. 1930966;1566732275;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 00:28:22 trinque: it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent. 1930967;1566732299;mircea_popescu;there's no specific rule that documentation must be limited to success. 1930968;1566732306;mircea_popescu;documentation attaches ~to activity~. 1930969;1566732358;mircea_popescu;that's the logic : if it's worth doing, it's worth doing human-ly, which is to say reviewably ; and since one can't claim entire classes of fundamentals aren't wroth doing, the absence of X or Y topic is significant of weakness. 1930970;1566732453;mircea_popescu;i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer. 1930971;1566732518;spyked;IMHO examination of failure also counts as "interesting"; mircea_popescu has plenty examples of that on trilema 1930972;1566732537;mircea_popescu;yes, it is true, illo tempore, in ages long past, with [http://trilema.com/2012/filozoful-blogomirea-editie-revazuta-adaugita-si-completata/?b=t%20de%20mult&e=sume#select][expensive] paper process, this was a useful approach. but today, it is counter-productive. 1930973;1566732576;mircea_popescu;spyked, it's just the secular, momentuous change of detaching documentation from success and attaching it to activitry plain and simple that's the major significance of current it. 1930974;1566733119;spyked;mircea_popescu, agreed. it's also what newton et al. used as a method and what academia could (I guess) have been if it hadn't devolved into the current shitshow. 1930975;1566733128;mircea_popescu;just about. 1930976;1566733148;mircea_popescu;but yes, historically, this was the longest held and dearest desire of all thinking men buried before we came : 1930977;1566733157;mircea_popescu;that they might have ink and paper to write their things down 1930978;1566733161;mircea_popescu;npow, we do. 1930979;1566733180;mircea_popescu;it's the pinnacle of stupid to go "now that we do, we dun wanna". 1930980;1566737311;mircea_popescu;!!withdraw 0.09776 1KQ6jRPaa9RneTYMppJiMCsd1RqMeQM8H 1930981;1566737317;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SoUGl/?raw=true 1930982;1566737327;mircea_popescu;trinque, ^ plox 1930983;1566737558;mircea_popescu;and lemme say i can't recommend [http://trilema.com/2016/lets-drain-the-domain-name-swamp/?b=currently%20using&e=com#select][namesilo] enough. they turned out to be [http://trilema.com/2014/namecheap-goes-off-the-deep-end-anyone-know-a-decent-domain-registrar/?b=namecheap%20U&e=BE#select][exactly the needed pill], but their bitcoin integration is actually so good, it interfaces with deedbot directly! 1930984;1566737593;mircea_popescu;if every wanna-be corp out there actually followed their model, shit would actually work! 1930985;1566739526;mircea_popescu;!!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 1930986;1566739526;a111;Logged on 2019-07-22 07:35 mp_en_viaje: in other "[http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/][optionality]/[http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/][failure]" lulz, i'm re-reading http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-anjie-well-actually-let-me-do-anjie-while-you-watch/ because i linked it recently because i used a subpoint from it (the thing about STD gender disparity). 1930987;1566739530;mircea_popescu;!!ledger 1930988;1566739535;mircea_popescu;!!received-invoices 1930989;1566739535;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VeSsB/?raw=true 1930990;1566739538;mircea_popescu;!!sent-invoices 1930991;1566739542;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wr2Xq/?raw=true 1930992;1566739546;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4ulEq/?raw=true 1930993;1566740102;mircea_popescu;hm 1930994;1566740107;mircea_popescu;!!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 1930995;1566740107;a111;Logged on 2019-07-22 07:35 mp_en_viaje: in other "[http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/][optionality]/[http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/][failure]" lulz, i'm re-reading http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-anjie-well-actually-let-me-do-anjie-while-you-watch/ because i linked it recently because i used a subpoint from it (the thing about STD gender disparity). 1930996;1566740130;mircea_popescu;is the rating broken ? 1930997;1566742297;trinque;nah, just swap it around 1930998;1566742350;trinque;ack re: above 1930999;1566742367;trinque;and I'm using a namesilo too per your recommendation, great service! 1931000;1566744196;mircea_popescu;o ic 1931001;1566744204;mircea_popescu;!!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 1931002;1566744204;a111;Logged on 2019-07-22 07:35 mp_en_viaje: in other "[http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/][optionality]/[http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/][failure]" lulz, i'm re-reading http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-anjie-well-actually-let-me-do-anjie-while-you-watch/ because i linked it recently because i used a subpoint from it (the thing about STD gender disparity). 1931003;1566744207;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtGzK/?raw=true 1931004;1566744294;feedbot;http://thewhet.net/2019/08/localbitcoins-cracked-corn-and-i-dont-care/ << The Whet -- Localbitcoins cracked corn, and I don't care. 1931005;1566747183;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930902 << not always TRT (and in fact is how we ended up with x86 etc) 1931006;1566747184;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 07:31:06 mircea_popescu: this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT. 1931007;1566747236;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930905 << 'format hdd' was merely example, did say 'or subtler vandalism' 1931008;1566747237;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 07:32:56 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk 1931009;1566747313;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930909 << even 1 leecher will 'fill' if you have no ration cap, lol. i was speaking of how many could even be served, at something like reasonable bw, by given pipe. 1931010;1566747313;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 07:36:13 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED. 1931011;1566747363;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930912 << approx same as feeding pigeons in the park 1931012;1566747363;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 07:37:57 mircea_popescu: NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.) 1931013;1566747506;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930934 << sorta why asciilifeform elaborately documented an' genesised e.g. [http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=58]['M'] 1931014;1566747507;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 08:10:15 mircea_popescu: i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer. 1931015;1566747548;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930942 << nao, shortage is instead time, in which to read, rather than ink. 1931016;1566747549;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 08:22:04 mircea_popescu: npow, we do. 1931017;1566747717;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/25/the-new-old-vilnius-of-2019/ << Ossa Sepia -- The New Old Vilnius of 2019 1931018;1566748284;mircea_popescu;"to automate and opiate" eh ? notbad. 1931019;1566749045;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, that it is ; which is how you end up with entire swathes of maculature (usg "scientific research" or "news media" as prime examples) rejected out of hand. 1931020;1566749063;mircea_popescu;but this is a good thing! 1931021;1566749293;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wasn't even thinking of the maculature, but of e.g. fact that [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][thus far only asciilifeform has signed the logger] . shortage of time does not disappear once subtracted the maculature. 1931022;1566749305;mircea_popescu;also tru 1931023;1566749436;diana_coman;asciilifeform: while ^ is true, signatures seem to be more than "lack of time" though; afaik you read EuCrypt and actually satisfied yourself re MR implementation for instance but I don't recall any signatures from you - or did I just miss them? 1931024;1566749457;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930963 << dug through logs, tryin' to recall whothefuck was princessnell and how merited this 'honour', found ~0 -- must've been in 'era 1' 1931025;1566749458;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 11:26:07 mircea_popescu: !!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146 1931026;1566749463;mircea_popescu;zzzing 1931027;1566749488;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this aint even the most egregious example, there's trb patches ~by asciilifeform~ that have since been reground that iirc i haven't signed yet 1931028;1566749495;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, mentioned recently, now writes stultifying government copy re "immigrants" at la times. 1931029;1566749504;asciilifeform;diana_coman: backlog on conveyor 1000km long 1931030;1566749655;diana_coman;well yes, that is pretty much a given as soon as one starts doing useful stuff; but it still implies that signatures on *other people's* stuff are back of the queue while at the same time you see lack of signatures on your stuff as "nobody reads!" 1931031;1566749682;diana_coman;to link it also to earlier trinque's thread "nobody reads" 1931032;1566749696;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the tree trunk in asciilifeform's eye, the mote in other's, simply examples!111 1931033;1566749705;mircea_popescu;lmao 1931034;1566749821;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930818 << asciilifeform I don't have AWS installed anywhere, but we do have an access.log 1931035;1566749822;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 23:38:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo when you wake up -- do we have site stats ? 1931036;1566749976;mircea_popescu;fwiw awstats is iirc a perl script 1931037;1566750000;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930847 << This is my understanding of the VPN thing. It's a market that demands Germany's subway tunnels of fiber because folks want to eat all the torrents they can through them. 1931038;1566750000;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 00:08:42 asciilifeform: trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind. 1931039;1566750264;BingoBoingo;http://archive.is/wPG7p << 3.33 USD monthly paid annually from the USG folks that stick their ads everywhere that should know better 1931040;1566750441;diana_coman;asciilifeform: lolz; but leaving the examples aside a bit, it seems to me that there is currently a lack of incentive to signing; basically people perceive it more as a liability (perhaps: I signed that and...what if I'm wrong/made a mistake??) than a gain; 1931041;1566750466;diana_coman;other people's signatures are good and wanted but that's about as much as it seems to go so far. 1931042;1566750894;mircea_popescu;but that's the fucking gain. "o look, i made a mistake". 1931043;1566750900;mircea_popescu;how the fuck is that a negative ? 1931044;1566751013;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: I should have said: what if I get negrated for having signed it while it still contains a mistake/something I overlooked; basically a too-perfect-vision of it or how to put it 1931045;1566751035;mircea_popescu;aha. 1931046;1566751050;mircea_popescu;i dun think anyoen's getting negrated for being imperfect. 1931047;1566751050;BingoBoingo;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween. 1931048;1566751062;mircea_popescu;so far the bar seems more in the vein of the exact opposite, "seeking to hide imperfection" 1931049;1566751190;diana_coman;indeed it does 1931050;1566751347;diana_coman;but it's a more difficult thing to catch as it were: as above, it's unclear if "no signature" is a sign of "seeking to hide imperfection" or of "no read" or wtf already 1931051;1566751357;mircea_popescu;myeah 1931052;1566754236;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931008 << for extra lulz, no e.g. ru in the list. ( and in fact whole list consists of a) nato reich b) quasi-satellites, e.g. brazil/india ) 1931053;1566754236;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 13:20:14 BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween. 1931054;1566754913;asciilifeform;ftr asciilifeform is solidly convinced that vpnism, aka 'hide my ip!1111' derpery, is a fundamentally braindamaged 'solution' to a fundamentally misconceived problem. (to which the 1 and only possible ~actual~ solution is a 100% gossipd-style net which treats the older ip net the way the latter treats ethernet & co.) 1931055;1566754943;asciilifeform;all the pseudo-solutions reduce to variations on the tired old theme of 'tor'. 1931056;1566755232;asciilifeform;btw, for n00bz : try some time and actually subscribe to a 'vpnism'. you'll quickly see 9000 spam/day offering other products for the irredeemably-gullible, same as if you order 'colloid silver' or similar snake oil. it's a conveniently-affixed leper's bell on obvious, broad-daylight scamola of erry kind, they trade lists of chumps 1931057;1566755315;trinque;you're again describing products you would use 1931058;1566755317;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-08-07#1516721][see also] re 'lists'. 1931059;1566755317;snsabot;Logged on 2016-08-07 12:36:39 a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 04:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at one point i needed some conductive cloth (the kind with silver strands) for an experiment. to my great surprise, i discovered that there is a large manufacturer in usa, and they do brisk business with folks suffering from precisely the kind of phobia described in decimation's link. 1931060;1566755326;trinque;there are not enough yous to fill a bowling hall 1931061;1566755350;mircea_popescu;actually, it's not altogether clear there is another one. 1931062;1566755440;asciilifeform;trinque: do you recall [http://trilema.com/2012/strategic-superiority-a-saga/?b=Up&e=everything#select][mircea_popescu's piece where 'offensively stupid poor' ] ? 1931063;1566755652;asciilifeform;trinque: dun mistake asciilifeform's pos. for 'it is loathesome, ergo i want no part in selling'. rather, describing why the product only even appears to exist because is convenient bait for usg fish hooks in the 1st place. consider, how could supply a warez bandwidth for people who expect to pay 3 $ / mo ? i dun even know if possible to supply a length of rope with which they can hang selves, for 3 $ ! 1931064;1566756339;asciilifeform;trinque: i haven't even touched on the ethical q of whether one ought to help usg herd the illiterate 'weevs' into gasenwagen by peddling faux-'anonimities'. disputing rather the very idea that ~anyone~ actually turns a profit in 'vpnism' other than by cashing cheques directly from washington. 1931065;1566756607;trinque;there's a thread right this moment on one of the heathen pits on which vpn should I use 1931066;1566756644;trinque;as for the "checks from washington" I think you bring your soviet experience into these things without first going and looking 1931067;1566756694;asciilifeform;trinque: maybe i'ma tard ? where in free world do i buy for 3 $ the GB/s bandwidth i can then sell to a weev for 3 $ ? 1931068;1566756715;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, the part you're missing is that the entire array is not made out of the one-worst-apple 1931069;1566756718;trinque;I'm criticizing the approach. 1931070;1566756722;trinque;not telling you where to source. 1931071;1566756728;mircea_popescu;most people buying a vpn spent 5-10 bucks a month on 12 cents or so worth of usage 1931072;1566756768;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: rright, all except for the inevitable customer who opens 'pedo paradise' and incurs 12,000 $ worth of bill 1931073;1566756792;trinque;I'm not trying to insult you, but this is exactly the "and anyway if I did" loop. 1931074;1566756809;mircea_popescu;by this logic, can't have a cup of coffee. too risky. 1931075;1566756816;mircea_popescu;COULD be poisoned 1931076;1566756837;trinque;most likely is, because satan has control of all vessels of darkness 1931077;1566756878;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu had a piece where 'if malpractice suits cost 100,000 $ and chance is 0.1%, procedure aint ever costing anywhere close to 100 $ ' 1931078;1566756913;mircea_popescu;it's not clear to me what we're discussing here. 1931079;1566756933;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the economics of selling vpnism relays 1931080;1566756962;mircea_popescu;you're allowing yourself to be misdirected. just get the peopel looking for the item called "vpn" in empire universe on a rk or w/e the actual item is 1931081;1566756970;trinque;^ 1931082;1566756985;trinque;and control w/e fraction of the pipe they get to use 1931083;1566756989;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: is what i [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930846][said in beginning] of thrd, neh. 1931084;1566756989;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 00:05:14 asciilifeform: observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly. 1931085;1566756999;mircea_popescu;just because they call it x in their fantasyworld has ~little bearing. 1931086;1566757004;trinque;no, there is no market of you 1931087;1566757023;trinque;this would make me sad if I felt like being sad, and I don't. 1931088;1566757036;mircea_popescu;"a literate user" is nonsense in this context. 1931089;1566757042;asciilifeform;trinque: what means 'of you' ? setting up packet relay on a leased box aint exactly high arcana 1931090;1566757066;mircea_popescu;basically alf is willing to do anything whatsoever but sell. 1931091;1566757068;trinque;you really need to hang out with some early 20s kids. 1931092;1566757086;trinque;if it isn't a red dot they tap and that's it, they're not doing it. and you have nobody else to farm. 1931093;1566757191;asciilifeform;trinque: could easily offer e.g. rk w/ preconfigged whatevers. but do you suppose these '20s' will pay 70 $ for 10kB/s , instead of lulazon's 3 $ / 100MB/s ? 1931094;1566757201;mircea_popescu;in a word, yes. 1931095;1566757215;asciilifeform;then wainot ! 1931096;1566757222;mircea_popescu;cuz you're nto talking to them 1931097;1566757244;mircea_popescu;people, by and large, WILL DO WHAT YOU TELL TJHEM TO. 1931098;1566757258;mircea_popescu;not "what you'd do in their place", not "what's good for them", "logical" or otherwise. 1931099;1566757260;trinque;the "it'll all be pedo traffic" is the other end of the "my precious children, can't let 'em bike down the street" 1931100;1566757263;mircea_popescu;people do what told to do. 1931101;1566757264;trinque;there are statistically no pedos 1931102;1566757308;asciilifeform;trinque: i'm not even convinced that 'pedos' in the contemplated sense , physically exist. it's simply the costume usg puts on when bulldozing isps. 1931103;1566757351;mircea_popescu;it is quite unlikely anything like the usg socio-politico-legalo-wankist notion of "pedophile" exists in reality, yes. 1931104;1566757391;mircea_popescu;then again black dudes regularly come out ~average wrt penis sizes, seems to do nothing for the meme. 1931105;1566757442;asciilifeform;spammers, however, sadly do exist, and [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930856][pose the obvious headache], the vendor that'll supply bw for ~arbitrary~ packets, no matter of what, does not afaik exist (outside of perhaps pyongyang] 1931106;1566757443;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled ) 1931107;1566757459;mircea_popescu;neveryoumind that part, jeez. 1931108;1566757514;mircea_popescu;the last time anyone came even vaguely remotely close to anything like that, danielpbarron got his walking papers and the problem went away the same day. 1931109;1566757530;asciilifeform;troo 1931110;1566757544;mircea_popescu;why do you stubornly refuse to see, internalize and use the working process, notwithstanding it was both explained and displayed for your examination 1931111;1566757564;mircea_popescu;and isntead sit there and wank idiotically about what is little mroe than "what i read in playboy letters". 1931112;1566757582;trinque;if I can go briefly upstack, the proposal from me is to try things. vpn is just the first thing that came to mind. 1931113;1566757595;mircea_popescu;in the EXTREMELY unlikely case you actually get a user you don't want, can just rate and move on. 1931114;1566757597;trinque;if it's proved there's no market there, great, then you iterate moar 1931115;1566757607;mircea_popescu;but this'd be a marked improvement over the stiuation where you got no user at all. 1931116;1566757623;trinque;average derp has no idea what a box is, let alone what to do with it 1931117;1566757634;trinque;but average derp can install a vpn client by clicking on something. 1931118;1566757640;mircea_popescu;ONLY thing is, gotta talk to people. and tell them "here, is a thing, USE IT!". 1931119;1566757641;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for my education, work through example where vpn customer starts sending spam. how do i even determine ~which one it was~ w/out loudly and publicly breaking the promise to the customers which makes the idea of relay appealing to start with ? 1931120;1566757659;mircea_popescu;sending it from where ? a rk box ? 1931121;1566757700;asciilifeform;if each 1 gets own rk, it'd have to cost at least same as what rk presently priced. 1931122;1566757722;mircea_popescu;nobody handles email by hand anymore, wtf, everyone is on google. if some douche wants you to install smtp on the shared server you just frown. 1931123;1566757727;asciilifeform;i thought idea (of orig thrd) was re how to monetize a large monolithic multicpu box. 1931124;1566757733;trinque;yeah, http(s) is the only thing anyone does 1931125;1566757736;mircea_popescu;why the fuck would you put smtp on it ?! 1931126;1566757739;trinque;the kids don't even torrent anymore 1931127;1566757749;trinque;they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e 1931128;1566757756;mircea_popescu;^ 1931129;1566757771;mircea_popescu;this is kinda the bw-intensive use, and obv uy is no good for this 1931130;1566757774;asciilifeform;trinque: and you think this can be done via a 200MB/s pipe in BingoBoingostan ?? 1931131;1566757776;mircea_popescu;"fake in-reich ip" 1931132;1566757777;asciilifeform;aha 1931133;1566757781;mircea_popescu;aka miami-for-rent 1931134;1566757788;asciilifeform;it'd be ideal use for a 'uci' net, yes 1931135;1566757807;trinque;asciilifeform: I want to have a discussion that takes longer than the enumeration of your preconceptions. 1931136;1566757823;*;asciilifeform in fact encountered several working cases of 'uci'-style nets, set up by various folx, for this 1931137;1566757842;trinque;the lulzy thing is your contempt for the lulcow could be reoriented *around* the milking, instead of lactose-intolerance 1931138;1566757861;mircea_popescu;huh ? 1931139;1566757876;trinque;I dunno man, that metaphor went way off the rails 1931140;1566757879;trinque;lol 1931141;1566757886;asciilifeform;trinque: i'm 100% through enumerating, lol. will go into read mode for a spell, if trinque has specific 'get this obv. $item through yer thick head!' i will read. 1931142;1566757890;trinque;he doesn't want to talk to the stinky poor 1931143;1566757891;*;asciilifeform gotta go into meat chore shortly 1931144;1566757925;mircea_popescu;i don't think he wants to talk to anyone, in general. 1931145;1566757926;trinque;trying the vpn thing is cheap, could be done easily while you still have coffers to try something else 1931146;1566758008;asciilifeform;trinque: i'm actually all for offering it as a preconfigged variant of rk . my objections were 100% re the traditional variant, where all packets nominally become part of an indistinct outgoing soup via 1 shared ip. 1931147;1566758027;trinque;I am not prescribing implementation. 1931148;1566758092;trinque;maybe you, the operator of the service, do know what happens on it. maybe your covenant is to *not* share pipes with pedobearpig. it's all about muh datas and muh privacies, you see. 1931149;1566758104;asciilifeform;me neither (and if anyone can think of a 3rd variant that i've omitted, plox to write in.) 1931150;1566758128;mircea_popescu;just.talk.to.people. 1931151;1566758131;mircea_popescu;holy hell... 1931152;1566758307;trinque;on that subj, going to sit down and write for a bit 1931153;1566758994;BingoBoingo; they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e << More to the point they want to watch US HBO/Netflix/etc from wherever rather than the local mirrors on their own ISP's network 1931154;1566772061;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930814 << heh, from back when i was rooting for debian / wanted to believe. 1931155;1566772062;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-24 23:35:44 asciilifeform: meanwhile: [http://trilema.com/2014/the-wisdom-of-crowds-apparently-it-mostly-depends-on-the-crowds-in-question/][today's trilemalotto] . 1931156;1566777787;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931115 << i suppose it was your 'gentoo', heh. ( as i understand, debian perished approx. at same time as gentoo. ) 1931157;1566777787;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 19:10:26 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930814 << heh, from back when i was rooting for debian / wanted to believe. 1931158;1566777809;asciilifeform;~'07-08. 1931159;1566777948;asciilifeform;( iirc ian m. wasn't shot till '15. but was already long vegetable by then ) 1931160;1566780716;trinque;not even an unreasonable gentoo at a certain time. 1931161;1566780730;trinque;had the src build story 1931162;1566780752;asciilifeform;trinque: iirc author went quisling in '08 1931163;1566780872;trinque;gentoo guy called his memberberries "funtoo" if it tells us anything. 1931164;1566780886;trinque;that's what was lost y'see, the fun 1931165;1566781228;*;asciilifeform vaguely aware of a 'funtoo' but never personally touched. 1931166;1566781379;trinque;it's the original dood after he gave gentoo over to the committee 1931167;1566781384;asciilifeform;a. 1931168;1566781399;asciilifeform;had, apparently, the nerve, to 'after', lol 1931169;1566782342;BingoBoingo;"Technology should be fun, powerful and free." << from funtoo.org 1931170;1566782373;BingoBoingo;And right below that: "Keychain helps you to manage SSH and GPG keys in a convenient and secure manner. It acts as a front-end to ssh-agent and ssh-add, but allows you to easily have one long running ssh-agent process per system, rather than the norm of one ssh-agent per login session." 1931171;1566782807;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: almost interesting how monotonously 'same' these 'funtoos' are. 1931172;1566782868;asciilifeform;from 'i lost mah keez!111 and pgp obsolete!' zimmerman, to this. 1931173;1566783664;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/charting-the-charlotte-bdsm-scene-part-one-capex/ << lobbesblog -- Charting the Charlotte BDSM Scene, Part One: CAPEX 1931174;1566787063;trinque;> What was the meaning of the action? 1931175;1566787115;trinque;man I find lobbes such an entertaining character, and not in some kind of diminutive way. 1931176;1566787172;trinque;lobbes: I'm not even ripping on you 1931177;1566787199;trinque;you just have this comical precision regarding which I'm too inarticulate to define why I'm amused 1931178;1566787329;trinque;> and also ingesting the ashes throughout as he puffed it down 1931179;1566787416;trinque;meanwhile I'm over here writing this denuding, batshit piece. I think what's funny to me about lobbes is he may be the exact counterpoint to my narcissism 1931180;1566791803;lobbes;trinque: tyvm! glad you enjoyed 1931181;1566825652;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i've ordered 1u carcasses for the rk and apu1 plants , and will be machining the fittings for the internals in the next weeks. 1931182;1566825683;asciilifeform;( no moar boards sitting in open air ) 1931183;1566825765;asciilifeform;hunting presently for rails, ps, an' the remaining boxen 1931184;1566825835;asciilifeform;the new plants will have proper ventilation, no moar flea market box fan. 1931185;1566828298;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, just about, yes. for many years i swore by debian, 1931186;1566828462;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931127 << at some point the cocksuckers (true to form, see eg nonsense arguments as to "why did symbolics thinking men need mit") actually went to trouble to BUY the damn things. then brief period where "bought", with leafmoney, like esr's experience. and by now, they literally just expect to take over "by committee". 1931187;1566828463;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 21:45:44 trinque: it's the original dood after he gave gentoo over to the committee 1931188;1566828467;mircea_popescu;100% soviet, fuck that dumb shit. 1931189;1566828479;mircea_popescu;nfi why the weakass jwzs keep bending over for it, too. 1931190;1566828503;mircea_popescu;0 conception in the manalone dumbmind of who the enemy is or why. 1931191;1566828798;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931140 << might be the best promo for a piece being weritten i've yet seen. defo would reat that then! 1931192;1566828799;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 23:26:22 trinque: meanwhile I'm over here writing this denuding, batshit piece. I think what's funny to me about lobbes is he may be the exact counterpoint to my narcissism 1931193;1566828876;*;mircea_popescu now needs some sleep. but will bbl! 1931194;1566828905;mircea_popescu;(hi all from ye olde temeswar. i will be here for a few days, then thurs-ish sibiu and then brasov for the weekend.) 1931195;1566829168;asciilifeform;goodnight mircea_popescu 1931196;1566829342;asciilifeform;trinque: i also look forward to reading . 1931197;1566829420;diana_coman;if only code were more denuding and batshit - everyone would want to read it! 1931198;1566829426;asciilifeform;^ 1931199;1566835928;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty for the good news 1931200;1566836120;diana_coman;seems like an overkill for a logger but from all I can find about them I really like those guys www.cyberbunker.com/web/swat.php 1931201;1566836167;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc that one was actually discussed in early logs 1931202;1566836173;asciilifeform;lemme find in phf's , 1s 1931203;1566836184;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-20#885337 . 1931204;1566836184;a111;Logged on 2014-10-20 21:59 mircea_popescu: Once the SWAT team reached the bunker's blast doors, they 'knock' to announce their presence. It is unclear exactly what they say, as no sound is recorded from the surveillance system. CyberBunker is equipped with an advanced Intruder Detection System (IDS), however due to a testing drill the previous night the IDS system was accidentally left in the inactive mode. Two SWAT officers are seen to hit the blast door of th 1931205;1566836198;diana_coman;I did a log-search and couldn't find it; ah, I searched in new ones 1931206;1566836256;asciilifeform;iirc later on came out that the keeper still claims to own the bunker, but machines nao sit in some cheapo ordinary dc. 1931207;1566836326;diana_coman;they claim on the site that they have "other bunkers" ; now if those are not as much bunkers as ordinary dc... 1931208;1566836328;asciilifeform;fella also had connectivity problems on acct of a fatwa from 'spamhaus' and similar busybodies 1931209;1566836345;diana_coman;that yes. 1931210;1566836403;diana_coman;anyways, otherwise so far it would seem my logger will end up ...in Moldova 1931211;1566836417;asciilifeform;wai not moldova 1931212;1566836458;diana_coman;I just didn't expect it/plan it,lol; but precisely: why not; at least so far they have been very responsive, let's see how it works out. 1931213;1566836491;asciilifeform;diana_coman: re older logs -- we'll sync these when mircea_popescu comes home to where he had the archive he had fed to phf in '16 . (or perhaps earlier, if phf comes back from grave..) 1931214;1566836857;asciilifeform;re marketing gimmick of 'bunker' -- it is actually commonplace to locate dc under ground. 1931215;1566836936;asciilifeform;( naturally, the chiller plant, as well as quite obviously the outgoing pipe, gotta come out... ) 1931216;1566837027;asciilifeform;re unusual dc structures -- year or 2 ago, microshit apparently stole, from the l0gz, the notion of submerging dc in ocean. ( at least for purpose of pr, nfi whether in fact sold any rack slots in these. but there was a photoreportage w/ much fanfare . ) 1931217;1566837041;diana_coman;lolz 1931218;1566837154;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/gGyXH][1 of their brag pieces, for thrd-completeness.] 1931219;1566837157;phf;asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log-raw/tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.txt is the file that mp gave me 1931220;1566837159;asciilifeform;[http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-23#637960][where stole] . 1931221;1566837159;a111;Logged on 2014-04-23 14:09 asciilifeform: make the chassis from 'inconel' or similar alloy. 1931222;1566837163;asciilifeform;ohai phf. ty. 1931223;1566837180;asciilifeform;phf: where's 2014-15 ? 1931224;1566837197;phf;oh, hmm 1931225;1566837225;phf;those are not mp though, that's kako, http://btcbase.org/log-raw/ 1931226;1566837335;asciilifeform;phf: oh hm loox like you actually have 2013 -- present in there ? oddly enuff when i thought you were dead and wget -m ... 'd the site, only saw 2016--present in /raw 1931227;1566837418;asciilifeform;it showed 2016-04.txt as the earliest. 1931228;1566837430;phf;yeah, i only added them recently 1931229;1566837434;asciilifeform;aa 1931230;1566837496;asciilifeform;phf: i'ma swallow yours and invite anyone who thinks he has gap fillers to compare , then. 1931231;1566837511;*;asciilifeform will have to implement 'era 1' handling of log links 1st; hasn't done yet 1931232;1566837633;asciilifeform;the 2012-13 archive loox like it'll need reprocessing, also, seems to be in a very raw (xchat?) format . 1931233;1566837745;phf;the approach is from the "illuminated manuscripts" era of tmsr, so i kept all the files as is, but i think i can produce a kako style dump reasonably fast 1931234;1566837776;asciilifeform;phf: much appreciated. and happy to see that you've your strength back . 1931235;1566837868;phf;it's taking a long time, but yes 1931236;1566837875;asciilifeform;phf: i dun think you ever said, what was it that got you ? stray bullet ? 1931237;1566837904;phf;that would've been a lot more glamorous 1931238;1566837927;asciilifeform;stepped on nail ? 1931239;1566837955;phf;nah, a crack in my butt 1931240;1566837968;asciilifeform;does happen. 1931241;1566837982;phf;mp kept making the same jokes about "fallen off ass", i thought it would've been obvious by now 1931242;1566838044;asciilifeform;hey asciilifeform one time sat down into 1 of those chinese comp. chairs where there's no iron plate against the piston. but miraculously bounced off. 1931243;1566838054;*;asciilifeform looked, and there was 'stake'. 1931244;1566838163;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, it was what passed for 'premium' chair. served for just short of decade. then -- pop. 1931245;1566838189;phf;this was actually quite similar, i went off trail in swiss alps, because the path was damaged and i didn't want to backtrack, it was maybe 200m to a parallel route, but the way was pretty much vertical 1931246;1566838265;phf;well, i slipped at some point and landed badly into a kind of brush covered fallen tree stump 1931247;1566838306;phf;hurt like a motherfucker, so i had no idea for a while if i broke my tailbone, tore something, or what 1931248;1566838487;phf;but the crack got infected, just because it's that kind of area, and by the time i got it dealt with i was in a pre-sepsis state. it took less than a week from a fall to 39.9 120 bpm infection 1931249;1566838762;asciilifeform;hey this is still moar sportsmanlike than asciilifeform's chair. 1931250;1566838782;*;asciilifeform never been to alps. 1931251;1566838836;asciilifeform;phf: where are you these days ? in ru still ? 1931252;1566839085;phf;asciilifeform: yeap, i see no reason to leave really 1931253;1566839182;phf;you ought to consider moving here, or at least coming for a visit. the place is a lot livelier than dc, food is better, girls are prettier, things are generally cheaper, etc. etc. etc. 1931254;1566839692;asciilifeform;if asciilifeform ever figures out how to get a 6+digit usd there, will move in right next to phf . 1931255;1566839738;phf;asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log-raw/tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.fmt.txt 1931256;1566839781;asciilifeform;oh neato, ty phf. 1931257;1566839795;asciilifeform;interesting, negative indices . 1931258;1566840047;*;asciilifeform will have to adjust 'eater' proggy, but db i think is already able to eat. 1931259;1566840090;phf;seemed like the easiest way to work around the fact that kako logs start with 0 1931260;1566840175;asciilifeform;it's harmless, unless someone is using a very tight regexp for log urls (as in 'eater' currently) 1931261;1566840225;*;asciilifeform will look in bot, possibly there also 1931262;1566842927;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1931263;1566842927;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 10d 4h 27m 1931264;1566843673;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/pantsuit-social-engineers-begin-calling-for-invasion-of-brazil-over-seasonal-wildfires/ << Qntra -- Pantsuit Social Engineers Begin Calling For Invasion Of Brazil Over Seasonal Wildfires 1931265;1566843903;asciilifeform;'But the case for territorial incursion in the Amazon is far stronger than the justifications for most war. In the meantime, the planet chokes on old notions of sovereignty.' << lol! couldn't make this up. 1931266;1566844177;*;asciilifeform pictures generals nostalgic for 'nam' around table. 'let's rerun! somebody bring a globe, let's pick a jungle' 1931267;1566845757;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, one of my suspicions is that much of the EU wants to minimize the amount of time Brazil spends in periods of less retared government. 1931268;1566845966;BingoBoingo;There's probably some Teuton and Nordic anxiety over the prospect that sophisticated products of Brasil displace their sophisticated products. 1931269;1566846065;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nordic products ?! what, exactly , other than petro from naggumistan ? 1931270;1566846085;asciilifeform;'90s ended, nokia was eaten by microshit. what's left. 1931271;1566846195;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I suspect boats and boat related systems. Bofors and similar. 1931272;1566846237;asciilifeform;brasil doesn't compete in the nato golden cannon market tho 1931273;1566846286;BingoBoingo;Embraer does brisk business 1931274;1566846300;asciilifeform;( br ~does~ sell cheap zamac 'colt' with which for poor usaschwitz inmates to shoot selves with... ) 1931275;1566846449;BingoBoingo;Taurus's LATAM catalog is more utility oriented than their US "sell all comes exactly what they imagine they want" catalog 1931276;1566846595;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931158 << in a way it is, hence all the calls recently for it. 1931277;1566846595;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 11:06:28 diana_coman: if only code were more denuding and batshit - everyone would want to read it! 1931278;1566846618;BingoBoingo;Brasil also has shipyards, an aerospace industry that stamps out helicopters, drones, and satellites... they have the sorts of industry Argentina should and could have had if Argentines weren't so incredibly determined to all dole about the port. 1931279;1566846738;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: right. my puzzlement was in re what's left in 'nordic' 1931280;1566846876;BingoBoingo;Africa dole? 1931281;1566846906;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931224 << it should br real fun to see the retarded fuckwits in actual jungle. 1931282;1566846906;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 15:07:52 asciilifeform: 'But the case for territorial incursion in the Amazon is far stronger than the justifications for most war. In the meantime, the planet chokes on old notions of sovereignty.' << lol! couldn't make this up. 1931283;1566846917;mircea_popescu;as the expression goes, "you'd be eaten by baby turtles in half hour" 1931284;1566846923;BingoBoingo;lol 1931285;1566846942;*;mircea_popescu would not go without dozen+ men, and none of the "men's club barber shop" cock ornaments qualify 1931286;1566846952;mircea_popescu;buncha tchotchkes 1931287;1566846969;asciilifeform;the youngest folx in usa who remember how to jungle are in their 70s 1931288;1566846983;mircea_popescu;if you're doing 1km/day you 1931289;1566846985;mircea_popescu;re doing okay. 1931290;1566847045;mircea_popescu;and if you're gone for more than a few weeks... godo for you, you get to do it all over again! 1931291;1566847055;BingoBoingo;lol, yeah. This terrain is still mostly "lets detour outside our borders to transit the Paraguay river" sorta stuff no much more accessible than it was in the 1860s 1931292;1566847086;mircea_popescu;speaking of this, remember back when "bric countries" was a thing, and ustards seriously believed they're something special ? 1931293;1566847139;BingoBoingo;Well, now any given BRIC is bigger than the US and they don't talk about them at all. 1931294;1566847156;mircea_popescu;ikr ? 1931295;1566847193;asciilifeform;promises to be even moar 'sporty' than 'nam -- brazil is home to some of the lulziest 'living boobytraps', e.g. lonomia 1931296;1566847227;BingoBoingo;That momentarily Brazil isn't actively growling at the US is largely due to the personal affinity that exists between Trump and Bolsonaro for however long it lasts. 1931297;1566847248;mircea_popescu;aha 1931298;1566847271;mircea_popescu;because of strategic ineptitude, brazil could actually take over the atlantic fleed from the us within a few years. 1931299;1566847286;mircea_popescu;for some retarded reason usg decided to concentrate its shipmaking on pacific side 1931300;1566847318;mircea_popescu;whereas brazil is one of the top three producers of gross tonnage, in the military-strategic sense, after china and india and ahead of russkis. 1931301;1566847356;mircea_popescu;will be funny to watch an "invasion" by air keks. 1931302;1566847368;mircea_popescu;"drones will do it" "how ?" "3d printing!" 1931303;1566847471;mircea_popescu;but yes, brasil is exactly what argentina could/should have been, if they weren't utterly braindamaged lazyfucks, 1931304;1566847575;BingoBoingo;Items labeled at the same thing in the local stores from Brasil and Argentina could not be further apart in the quality and their ability to be what the label calls them. 1931305;1566847623;BingoBoingo;Except when it comes to agricultural products. That is every bit the chemical warfare seen in the US adapted to tropical demands. 1931306;1566847666;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: as i understand, br has somewhat of an 'excess biomass' problem. possibly could even benefit from a 'great patriotic war'. 1931307;1566847673;BingoBoingo;Ecuador bananas far superior to Brasil bananas. 1931308;1566847862;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It could probably benefit. The defense of Fortaleza has the potential to be a sort of Brazilian Stalingrad. 1931309;1566847987;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i have difficulty picturing a 'vietnam rerun' , tho the current crop of muppets is certainly dumb enuff. moar likely the linked item is intended as activation ping for whatever 'miami' 5th column can be mustered in br. 1931310;1566848038;BingoBoingo;Then again if Pedro II was fertile enough to have sufficient children to select 1 not completely retarded heir, Brasil could have been bigger than the US ever was. 1000 year reich and so on. 1931311;1566848071;mircea_popescu;as a factual matter, every warship wreck found adrift in space after the "empire" spawning it was long fucked out of the bloodline is still calling for imaginary rreinforcements at specific positions misexpressed in irrelevant systems of coordinates. 1931312;1566848083;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: As far as I can tell the Miami 5th column is ~the same as Argentina's, but beat more frequently 1931313;1566848173;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Not all together improbably the Iriquous forgot the French were their reinforcements by the time they came. 1931314;1566848191;mircea_popescu;re pedro , [http://trilema.com/2018/traditional-family-vs-the-harem-a-comparative-study/?b=the%20principal&e=male#select][variety] for a reason! 1931315;1566848928;BingoBoingo;Anyways, the reasons the EU-Mercosur thing as groundbreaking as it would be hasn't made Qntra to now are the myriad of factors lined up against it. Namely the "traditional Argentine cheeses" could be sold in Europe under their protected in Europe names trap, etc. 1931316;1566848997;asciilifeform;argentine cheeses?! 1931317;1566849138;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: AHA. The EU-Mercosur deal means the European "protected designations of origin" would not apply to Mercosur products sold in the US. So the Argentines, could market "Parmasean Reggiano Industria Argentina" as "Parmasean" 1931318;1566849604;BingoBoingo;Per the deal Mercosur recognizes 357 of the 3400 "European Geographical Indications", EU recognizes some Mercosur ones, and because of european heritage in the Americas all sorts of EU geographical indications won't be used against products of Mercosur origin if there's a tradition involved. 1931319;1566849779;BingoBoingo;Of course Mercosur could dissolve in 2020 because Argentina. 1931320;1566851252;mircea_popescu;erryone's out to piss on inca's head huh 1931321;1566852086;mircea_popescu;!!withdraw 0.5 12tGxcb82jAgCCpCga4yoGtAvZkgst3jrk 1931322;1566852091;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/C4N5t/?raw=true 1931323;1566853621;mircea_popescu;lobbes, incidentally, your blog takes an ungodly amt of time to take a comment. must be some kinda bug somewheres. 1931324;1566856865;lobbes;takes me an ungodly amt of time to login to the wp-admin as well. Will need to investigate 1931325;1566857040;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931251 << oya. Back when I was in "srsbizniss school" in 2006-2010 I remember it being a question on an exam. 1931326;1566857041;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 16:00:56 mircea_popescu: speaking of this, remember back when "bric countries" was a thing, and ustards seriously believed they're something special ? 1931327;1566857054;lobbes;they still believe they are something special tho. oh well 1931328;1566857088;mircea_popescu;yes but not seriously. 1931329;1566857114;lobbes;lol that is a point 1931330;1566858040;BingoBoingo;So much noise in the local presses on both sides of the river over "Why doesn't Turkey get a crisis too! So unfair!" 1931331;1566858330;mircea_popescu;keks. 1931332;1566858359;mircea_popescu;turkey actually kicks ass, they built a new uberairport that everyone is all lovey over, and their road infrastructure defo > yurp. 1931333;1566858370;*;mircea_popescu will be going later, but advanced reports look pretty wow. 1931334;1566858853;mircea_popescu;anyway, re the amazon thing : that's precisely how the twenny dollar bill guy (jackson) got florida from spain : "oh, you're not maintaining it properly" 1931335;1566859356;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : there's a quite active market in ~old~ benjie bills. all 1k notes go for 1-2k in normal, pocket money like grades (banknotes are graded, things with >3 folds and maybe a missing corner or such (but no tears) are VF (very fine) to EF (extremely), CU have all the corners, no folds. the grading goes up to gem, which are particularly/exceptionally good strikes, vivid and well centered.) 1931336;1566859391;mircea_popescu;the 1928 gold seal issuance easily fetches 5k and even upwards of 10k CU and above grades, per bill. (pretty much everything from 1928 is good money, as a general rule) 1931337;1566859496;mircea_popescu;the 1934B and C series (green seal) go for 3-4k each, and 5k+ in CU ; the 1928 gold 50s go for 1-200 and 250+ ; the 1928 C (green seal) 20 is goot for 1-200 / 1k+ ; the 1934 yelow seal 10 dollar bill can be 1-2k / 10k+ each (as it's very rare) 1931338;1566859577;mircea_popescu;the 1928C and D series 5-dolalr bills again 1-200 up to 1500-2k+ (and the 1929 brown seal can be good too, esp the finer grades 1k++) ; the 1928 E series one-dollars can be 2-300 / 1k to 15k for very fine bills. 1931339;1566859583;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: numismatics is (was??) astonishingly popular in usa. ( for some reason, the most prized rarities are -- last i knew -- mis-struct ~pennies~ of early 20th c.. ) 1931340;1566859644;asciilifeform;iirc it was fdr who abolished the 4digit moneys; at which pt they became museum pieces 1931341;1566859665;asciilifeform;*mis-struck 1931342;1566859706;mircea_popescu;as these are collectors' items, they obviously do not count as money for, eg, [][crossing borders]. 1931343;1566859722;mircea_popescu;wth is the story of that guy who kept moving $9999 from mexico eventually they stopped him ? 1931344;1566859736;asciilifeform;iirc they still theoretically count as money. (who and why would try to spend it for the printed value, is separate q) 1931345;1566859765;mircea_popescu;i dunno that they count as "circulating money". 1931346;1566859770;BingoBoingo;iirc B, C, and D series benjis are demonetized in Para-rotary-guay 1931347;1566859902;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, was that a qntra piece ? 1931348;1566859915;asciilifeform;most recent usa bill to be cancelled, iirc , was the 2 $ . some illiterate shop clerks will in fact refuse it, tho it still, last i knew, is accepted by banks . 1931349;1566859919;BingoBoingo;I'll check real quick 1931350;1566860105;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: 2 dollar bill still in print. They just print it in qualtities and frequences simular to local 10 peso coins 1931351;1566860139;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i saw it exactly 1nce . 1931352;1566860208;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Seen many times. Frequently chosen for gifting children. 1931353;1566860407;BingoBoingo;There's this Canadian backpack case in North Inca lore http://qntra.net/2015/06/3-years-prison-for-backpack-full-of-cash-in-winnipeg/ 1931354;1566860430;mircea_popescu;nah, was mexico 1931355;1566860747;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/Ccucg][some numismatists still] proclaim that e.g. 1000 $ was never demonetized, only outta print. the usg's mint www is silent on the subj tho. 1931356;1566860805;asciilifeform;'Last printed in 1945, the government stopped distribution of this denomination by 1969' etc 1931357;1566860897;asciilifeform;i'd be surprised if any bank were found to eat it, most dun have an archaeologist on staff to distinguish genuine from modern fake 1931358;1566860919;mircea_popescu;should prolly be pretty lulzy hole to exploit, make old moneys. 1931359;1566860932;mircea_popescu;somehow azn tards never think of THAT. 1931360;1566860941;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sovok ruble was being faked even after formal cancellation ! 1931361;1566860949;asciilifeform;(and iirc ditto the 1917 ruble !) 1931362;1566860991;asciilifeform;( why ? cuz was still accepted, albeit by bagfull, by street orc merchants in some of the sadder -- e.g. kazah -- ex-colonies ) 1931363;1566861059;asciilifeform;( also helped that : the orig plates were appropriated by quick-thinking orcentrepreneurs ) 1931364;1566861087;BingoBoingo; somehow azn tards never think of THAT. << They do, but they do... the COINS! "Morgan Dollar", etc 1931365;1566861126;asciilifeform;cheap foot labour makes counterfeit of small (or even recently abolished) paper moneys into a ~workable thing. 1931366;1566861198;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc coins are moar in favour nao among fakers than at any point since prior to newton. ( coin has neither serial # , nor any elaborate boobytraps that modern tech can't make short work of ) 1931367;1566861250;mircea_popescu;i was talking more re the whole best korea "false benjie' 1931368;1566861270;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, it doesn't hurt that silver primarily a waste byproduct that emerges from copper and lead prodction 1931369;1566861301;mircea_popescu;but yes, most coins are simply worth less than it'd cost to make 1931370;1566861304;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there was a persistent rumour in the '90s that kr got hold of an original press . nfi whether substance to this. 1931371;1566861410;asciilifeform;very difficult to picture anyone bothering to fake a ~modern~ coin. 1931372;1566861953;asciilifeform;from asciilifeform's crackpottery notebooks : [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-01-27#1608727][pre-hiroshima pb] would make a notbad coin metal. at least from authenticability pov. 1931373;1566861954;snsabot;Logged on 2017-01-27 17:54:54 asciilifeform: al schwartz wrote about the roofs, iirc it was. semiconductor firms replaced cathedral roofs all over europe, for 0 cost. just to get the valuable pre-hiroshima metal. 1931374;1566862033;*;asciilifeform wonders whether the troo 1000 $ notes are similarly isotope-distinguishable . 1931375;1566866648;lobbes;in my [http://trilema.com/2013/why-finance-shouldnt-be-open-to-your-average-schmoe/][trilema-lotto] today; the (potential) $2 million couch loan. I worked with someone years ago who "lended" for the BTCjam thing... tried dissuade him and instead get him registered with a gpg key an' into the WOT but he just was too thick. Wonder if he's in a cardboard box these days 1931376;1566872327;asciilifeform;meanwhile : phf's vintage log imports on testbed. however : certain uniturds decode strangely ( e.g. ru-style double-quote turns into accented A ) ; and link-dekakoizer will need db lookup to determine snsabot-correct date for given index # (else the links do not go where expected) . 1931377;1566872333;asciilifeform;so this will take some days. 1931378;1566872360;asciilifeform;uniturd decoder, note, is the one in lobbes's latest patch. 1931379;1566872425;asciilifeform;atm i also suspect that a certain % of links imported from 'era 2' (phf's april 2016 -- aug. 2019) also do not go where expected, on acct of clock difference b/w the boxen. 1931380;1566872433;asciilifeform;ergo needs 'era 2' corrector similarly. 1931381;1566872450;asciilifeform;( in fact date in link should not matter at all, oughta resolve by index # ) 1931382;1566872498;asciilifeform;it is interesting that no one has noticed this effect of yet. 1931383;1566872652;asciilifeform;easiest pill is prolly to '301' e.g. a ...../log/chan/idx/31337 into correct /log/chan/date#31337 , and transform the payloads of all displayed links into the former. BUT this would break with historical convention. so i'ma ask mircea_popescu how he wants this sewn. 1931384;1566872696;asciilifeform;the obv. alternative is to actually do a db lookup when printing links, to get the appropriate local date. BUT this means a db lookup per link displayed, i.e. slowdown. 1931385;1566872755;asciilifeform;( the option 'hey just sync clock' dun do anyffin useful. for one thing, kako's clock was yet different. for another, both kako's and phf's drifted , just like mine... ) 1931386;1566872796;asciilifeform;summary : historic dates in links are detectably bogus . 1931387;1566872818;*;asciilifeform would like to hear how phf dealt with this . 1931388;1566872925;asciilifeform;relatedly, imho a future piz cargo oughta include a rubidium clock box. 1931389;1566872957;asciilifeform;( coupla hundy $ , if 2ndhand, but they're hefty ) 1931390;1566873055;*;asciilifeform bbl : meats. 1931391;1566875748;asciilifeform;meanwhile in frustrations, for third day digging for a usable [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-26#1000138][1u-embeddable GB lan switch for piz] , found none 1931392;1566875748;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 21:02:00 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: currently hunting for an 1u-embeddable 16port GB switch 1931393;1566890809;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-27#1931379 << btcbase is a continuation of kako's log, so there's no timestamp divergence. one log stops at dragon, and the other one starts. never the less i don't rely on dates at all: the entirety of log is stored in an array, so kako entry 123 is (aref *log* 123), likewise current log entry 1931379 is at that particular index in array. 1931394;1566890809;a111;Logged on 2019-08-27 02:20 asciilifeform: atm i also suspect that a certain % of links imported from 'era 2' (phf's april 2016 -- aug. 2019) also do not go where expected, on acct of clock difference b/w the boxen. 1931395;1566891014;phf;fixing an old style link is then cheap e.g. for http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758070 i parse out 758070, (entryref 758070), then render the url (which is standard url rendering function) which uses whatever date that's stored in the message record, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-16#758070 in this particular case they happen to be the same, but the point is that this is not a regex transform. essentially i do a 1931396;1566891014;a111;Logged on 2014-07-16 17:44 mike_c: need zocchi dice 1931397;1566891014;phf;"database" lookup by index 1931398;1566899458;mircea_popescu;phf, wouldja take it to #asciilifeform or whatever already. 1931399;1566901610;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931343 << this is terrible ; but i don't see anything wrong with parsing url by id first, such that log/date#index goes to #index on whatever date it might be, and to /date otherwise. 1931400;1566901610;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 23:07:47 asciilifeform: the obv. alternative is to actually do a db lookup when printing links, to get the appropriate local date. BUT this means a db lookup per link displayed, i.e. slowdown. 1931401;1566901694;mircea_popescu;i have no intention o fforcing anything like "time", because (as per ancient discussion i suspect meanwhole forgotten but which i still remember) fiat time is doomed non-republican construct. 1931402;1566901726;mircea_popescu;blockheight is the republican timekeeping item, and in the case of logs that's self-evidently line counts. 1931403;1566901796;mircea_popescu;ie, not only im never gonna mandate inca's "ntp", but i'm not even going to make anything like it. 1931404;1566901855;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931347 << it'll be a customs nightmare / attention grabber, doesn't seem worthwhile. 1931405;1566901855;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 23:11:36 asciilifeform: relatedly, imho a future piz cargo oughta include a rubidium clock box. 1931406;1566902002;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/42nd-street/ << Trilema -- 42nd Street 1931407;1566915432;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931356 << the main headache is that the segment of a url past the anchor (#) is never sent to server . 1931408;1566915432;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 07:09:42 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931343 << this is terrible ; but i don't see anything wrong with parsing url by id first, such that log/date#index goes to #index on whatever date it might be, and to /date otherwise. 1931409;1566915448;mircea_popescu;sure it is 1931410;1566915451;asciilifeform;nope. 1931411;1566915456;asciilifeform;rtfm plz. 1931412;1566915467;mircea_popescu;noa hat. 1931413;1566915478;asciilifeform;if it were , would be trivial 1931414;1566915534;mircea_popescu;179.43.*.* - - [27/Aug/2019:08:22:26 -0400] "POST /wp-comments-post.php HTTP/1.0" 500 963 "http://trilema.com/2012/adnotated-words-of-wisdom-on-the-topic-of-online-fraud/#comment-116893" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/67.0.3396.62 Safari/537.36" 1931415;1566915534;mircea_popescu;5 << direct quote from my server log. 1931416;1566915581;asciilifeform;interesting. spec seems to say they ought not, so i suspect not erry browser sends 1931417;1566915599;mircea_popescu;not every browser cca 1999 or some shit. by now, you can rely on it. 1931418;1566915608;asciilifeform;or hrm that's a refer url mircea_popescu 1931419;1566915613;asciilifeform;not a load url 1931420;1566915633;asciilifeform;this dun do anyffin for us re problem 1931421;1566915678;mircea_popescu;eh wtj 1931422;1566915960;*;asciilifeform tried various browsers, all behave to spec, i.e. none send url-cum-anchor as part of get or post ( ff and chrome do put it in referrer, but it's quite useless for this job, i need a scheme where url entered by hand or otherwise no ref hdr , is valid ) 1931423;1566916458;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, seems right you are, wtf. 1931424;1566916462;mircea_popescu;i could've sworn.... 1931425;1566916468;asciilifeform;ikr. i also thought ! 1931426;1566916485;mircea_popescu;this becomes quite inconvenient then, end up with duplicate field or wtf. 1931427;1566916495;asciilifeform;it'd have to by the ugly-as-arse /log/chan/index#index or sumsuch 1931428;1566916501;asciilifeform;unless i;m missing sumthing 1931429;1566916531;mircea_popescu;let this sit for a little we think more of it. 1931430;1566916589;asciilifeform;hence wai i posed the q. maybe trinque or lobbes , serious wwwists, can crack this one. 1931431;1566916738;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931361 << imho clock is a luxury and in foreseeable future i'ma only load essentials into the crates. but the good noose is, rubidium has halflife of ~5e10 yrs and aint setting off any alarms. while cesium clock uses the stable 133 . problem is rather that the buggers are heavy and can't be had , seems, in anyffin smaller than 2U . 1931432;1566916738;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 07:13:48 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931347 << it'll be a customs nightmare / attention grabber, doesn't seem worthwhile. 1931433;1566916793;asciilifeform;( ftr -- clocks look exactly like servers, just with bnc jack and mains , no other plugs ) 1931434;1566917028;asciilifeform;oh hm apparently i was wrong re the cheaper rb -- [https://archive.is/6JOsj][chinese sell ~pocket-sized unit] . but still headache, would have to interface it somehow. 1931435;1566917164;asciilifeform;my contention 'clock is luxury' is based on thought similar to [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931360][mircea_popescu's], i.e. it dun make sense to bother unless yer doing shortwave or similar application where the intervals gotta be utterly fixed or no go entirely 1931436;1566917165;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 07:12:48 mircea_popescu: ie, not only im never gonna mandate inca's "ntp", but i'm not even going to make anything like it. 1931437;1566917228;asciilifeform;( whereas 'ntpism' , i.e. networked clocks, make sense in 0 case, it's simply riotously dumb idea, packet delay aint deterministic . ntpism is pure inca scamola. ) 1931438;1566917544;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931353 << phf yer missing the point , i need so that http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-16#758070 AND http://btcbase.org/log/1945-07-16#758070 go to same thing ! 1931439;1566917544;a111;Logged on 2014-07-16 17:44 mike_c: need zocchi dice 1931440;1566917545;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 04:13:06 phf: fixing an old style link is then cheap e.g. for http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758070 i parse out 758070, (entryref 758070), then render the url (which is standard url rendering function) which uses whatever date that's stored in the message record, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-16#758070 in this particular case they happen to be the same, but the point is that this is not a regex transform. essentially i 1931441;1566917576;asciilifeform;dates gotta be decorative and work correctly while being so, or oughta go entirely. 1931442;1566917982;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, more importantly, how do i searc for the string "don't have" ? 1931443;1566918026;mircea_popescu;i specificalty recall describing this situation in munchen whereby i took cab driver all over bars, trying to find some with decent seating, didn't find any, at end dude was like "well, there's no more left on the list, you have to sit here" and i was like "bitch, i dun have to anything" 1931444;1566918252;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: quoted strings? indeed still gotta bake'em ( see in readme.txt, they're on the listof missing essentials , and errybody grumbles, i'ma do these next ) 1931445;1566918269;mircea_popescu;cool. 1931446;1566918286;asciilifeform;pagination of srch output also 1931447;1566918309;*;asciilifeform will use same scheme as in phuctor for the latter 1931448;1566918374;asciilifeform;possibly lobbes et al will beat me to it, submit a patch. 1931449;1566918415;*;asciilifeform was muchly hoping not to end up birthing whole logotron with solely own hands . 1931450;1566918548;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-26#1000650][most recent gripe re quotes] 1931451;1566918549;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 14:28:11 shrysr_: thanks asciilifeform and BingoBoingo. also since 'pki' throws up stuff like 'napkin' - is there a way to narrow this down in the search? 1931452;1566918644;asciilifeform;for thrd-completeness, also painfully missing are back/fwd linkages a la phf, but these need working date/era handling before i even dare to touch the q 1931453;1566922768;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-catfish-the-real-danger-of-social-media-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Catfish: The Real Danger Of Social Media. Adnotated. 1931454;1566923310;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 4th link in note 1 is borked 1931455;1566923360;mircea_popescu;yes, missing the actual link ;/ 1931456;1566923392;asciilifeform;'masturbated to the same exact theme' in #2 has a 'b' but no terminator 1931457;1566923512;mircea_popescu;deliberate. cuz it's the keyword, repeats throughot article 1931458;1566923561;asciilifeform;dun seem to display the keyword on any of my browser tho 1931459;1566923567;asciilifeform;( is it meant to ? ) 1931460;1566923597;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in diana_coman roulette, http://ossasepia.com/2009/11/15/cine-sunt-eu/ 1931461;1566923610;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, nah, it's not expected to work atm. trying to figure out what i want here. 1931462;1566923614;asciilifeform;a. 1931463;1566923808;asciilifeform;in #20 'Learn how to turn shit off, what' also borked. 1931464;1566923848;mircea_popescu;also because missing the link. 1931465;1566923860;mircea_popescu;do you recall it btw ? 1931466;1566923913;asciilifeform;not afaik 1931467;1566923979;asciilifeform;there's coupla moar of these, but i'ma leave off, evidently mircea_popescu still fillin'em in 1931468;1566923987;*;mircea_popescu prays at the shrine of lost references 1931469;1566924019;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, if there's one of those 100kg then 'nope' 1931537;1566930701;asciilifeform;several folx got sent away with 'nope' in the queue. 1931538;1566930702;mircea_popescu;there where ? 1931539;1566930719;asciilifeform;in the usa end, where one goes an' gets the ticket punched. 1931540;1566930728;mircea_popescu;ask coppa if they will carry. 1931541;1566930744;mircea_popescu;i have had them carry in excess of a quarter ton for me. ASIDE from luggage. 1931542;1566930765;mircea_popescu;if they carry, the dude with ruler is welcome to stuff it, you bought ticket from your airline not from him/ 1931543;1566930765;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what did it cost ? 1931544;1566930772;mircea_popescu;~60% of what fedex'd have been 1931545;1566930779;mircea_popescu;otherwise, would have fedex'd. 1931546;1566930791;asciilifeform;when i bought ticket, the annoying fucks wouldn't even take prepay of the surcharge when selling ticket, proclaimed 'you pay it at airport' 1931547;1566930804;mircea_popescu;so buy ticket at airport ? 1931548;1566930810;asciilifeform;and pay 2x. 1931549;1566930814;asciilifeform;i bought month in advance. 1931550;1566930825;mircea_popescu;possibly dealing with typically ustardian faux thing, where the corner grocery store misrepresents itself as "bank". except "oh, we can't do wires" 1931551;1566930832;mircea_popescu;ah, already bought ? 1931552;1566930839;mircea_popescu;then none of the foregoingd applies. 1931553;1566930844;asciilifeform;not bought yet, can't buy until all irons pass test 1931554;1566930851;asciilifeform;otherwise risk ending up sucking own elbow 1931555;1566930863;mircea_popescu;in that case, ask them/. 1931556;1566930875;BingoBoingo;Important part of cardboard box exercise is likely to mean finding airport with COPA desk asciilifeform checks in at rather than United or whoever doing a codeshare on the to panama link 1931557;1566930876;asciilifeform;i'ma defo ask, and play the 'phone tag', like last time. but expect similar result. 1931558;1566930887;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, has it. 1931559;1566930921;mircea_popescu;gotta deal with copa specifically, not with ustardistani interface 1931560;1566930922;BingoBoingo;May mean reaching out to lobbes or Mocky and setting up a bit of a road trip 1931561;1566930945;asciilifeform;btw it dun matter of what the box is made, or that it resembles suitcase (other than possibly for orc customs). the dimensions thing is applied by monkey on the usa end. 1931562;1566931079;asciilifeform;btw if e.g. rk plant gets eaten, lose considerably moar than ~1k, there's a great bit of hand-craft involved in making these. 1931563;1566931130;mircea_popescu;business is all about identifying these things, writing the correct numbers down, and then comparing sums. 1931564;1566931146;asciilifeform;well yes. 1931565;1566931160;asciilifeform;there's also ' asciilifeform's vacation days ' non-renewable resource involved . 1931566;1566931212;asciilifeform;( the hero to move boxen instead of asciilifeform , has not yet stood up. ) 1931567;1566931236;asciilifeform;where incidentally is Mocky ? 1931568;1566931344;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931500 << incidentally i priced 'fexed', their cost is actually comparable to ' asciilifeform-ex ' . problem is that all fedex'd crates end up getting the full orc treatment. 1931569;1566931344;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 15:15:47 mircea_popescu: ~60% of what fedex'd have been 1931570;1566931350;asciilifeform;*fedex 1931571;1566931360;mircea_popescu;aha 1931572;1566931453;asciilifeform;re mircea_popescu's quarter tonne -- per last yr's specs , they were formally willing to move up to 150kg -- from anywhere other than usa. 1931573;1566931473;mircea_popescu;heh 1931574;1566931574;asciilifeform;'copa' is... interesting co. for instance, return flight got stuck in panama for extra 20min on acct of some fuckwit who couldn't fit his ~box of cakes~ into overhead compartment. 1931575;1566931598;asciilifeform;( in usa bouncers would come and beat such fella black and blue and throw out of gate. but orcs. ) 1931576;1566931635;asciilifeform;the folx i told in meatspace about this, no one believed. 'yer fucking with me' 1931577;1566931705;asciilifeform;also oblg. apropos of ye olde http://trilema.com/2014/a-practical-exercise-for-people-who-cant-afford-airfare/ >> all 4 planes were ~half full . 1931578;1566931722;*;asciilifeform did not complain, got to sleep horizontally... 1931579;1566931954;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931506 << us-tardation , if it were ~deterministic~ , would be considerably less headache . but it , sadly, aint. ( for instance asciilifeform never had problem with wire. but that's 0..n, no one knows re n+1... ) 1931580;1566931955;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 15:16:40 mircea_popescu: possibly dealing with typically ustardian faux thing, where the corner grocery store misrepresents itself as "bank". except "oh, we can't do wires" 1931581;1566934559;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: btw occurs to me , you have a 'copa' counter in BingoBoingostan somewhere. consider inquiring what costs round trip ~from~ BingoBoingostan. it isn't impossible that it'd be cheaper for BingoBoingo to ~pick up~ crates. 1931582;1566934590;mircea_popescu;not a bad idea at that. you can by round trip from us in uy for that matter 1931583;1566934595;*;mircea_popescu does this occasionally, 1931584;1566934688;asciilifeform;even if costs ~same, conceivably could work around asciilifeform's major handicap, i.e. that he can only go 1 (w/ 'afterburners' , maybe 2x) / yr on acct of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931521 1931585;1566934688;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 15:22:15 asciilifeform: there's also ' asciilifeform's vacation days ' non-renewable resource involved . 1931586;1566934755;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo would not have to get hotel, either, could sleep in hammock in asciilifeform's 'nazi sub' 1931587;1566934817;asciilifeform;supposing there aint orc-generated bureaucratic problem in re BingoBoingo going into usa for day or 2, may be workable. 1931588;1566934886;asciilifeform;(the 1 headache is that BingoBoingo's station would end up unmanned for the interval.) 1931589;1566934994;BingoBoingo;Well, second headache is that coming into UY they tend to care more about payloads moved by UY living folks 1931590;1566935025;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i dun recall the orcs asking me where i lived. you give'em the usa passport and is all. 1931591;1566935047;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc you haven't burned yours yet. so oughta work 1931592;1566935052;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931516 << ftr, I do have a free room in apartment; lordship always welcome as long as I know enough in advance. Though I did some research and it is doubtful if CLT has a copa counter (I could always check on foot to confirm). Loox like closest one may be in Florida 1931593;1566935053;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 15:18:17 BingoBoingo: May mean reaching out to lobbes or Mocky and setting up a bit of a road trip 1931594;1566935106;asciilifeform;lobbes: you are where ? 1931595;1566935136;lobbes;Charlotte, NC (about half hour from airport; and halfway from D.C to FL it seems) 1931596;1566935147;asciilifeform;afaik the only 'full scale' office of theirs is in fl 1931597;1566935165;asciilifeform;'miami mecca'(tm) 1931598;1566935204;lobbes;yeah, looks like miami and LA >> https://www.copaair.com/en/web/gs/copa-courier-offices 1931599;1566935363;lobbes;hmm, but wtf, now this says there is an office in the Washington Dulles Airport >> https://www.copacargo.com/html/user/default.aspx?PageId=5&lang=en 1931600;1566935368;*;lobbes has no idea 1931601;1566935411;asciilifeform;lobbes: there was 'office' in the bmore airport from which i went. but it was the kind where no one to haggle with, 'here is machine, wouldja like to buy new ticket for 3x what you paid month ago?' 'here we measure the trunks' etc 1931602;1566935455;asciilifeform;for all i know, is exactly what is in fl and la also. 1931603;1566935475;lobbes;yea, hard to ascertain over the interwebz 1931604;1566935483;lobbes;call em' maybe 1931605;1566935526;lobbes;in any case, my pad is open if road-trip stop is needed at any point 1931606;1566935547;asciilifeform;i'ma have to call'em (and specifically that city's, vs the 'national' one) 1931607;1566935582;asciilifeform;other potential headache is that they'll happily offer to carry e.g. +100kg aaand it'll end up 'cargo' and get ben_vulpes'd. 1931608;1566935610;asciilifeform;so far all i got is 2 experimental data points re expeditions, ben's and mine. 1931609;1566935787;BingoBoingo;As long as everything has invoices you can present, customs doesn't *have* to be multi-day ordeal 1931610;1566935829;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: dun matter how many day ordeal, cost will still be 2+x of otherwise. 1931611;1566935842;asciilifeform;it'd end up same as if fedex'd. 1931612;1566936074;*;BingoBoingo unenthused about returning to US without warships and [http://trilema.com/2015/prophylaxis]["viking hanglider"] 1931613;1566936125;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: hey , i work as full-time canary in that coal mine... 1931614;1566936498;BingoBoingo;It's not simply existential gasenwagen risk. Its that going to the US involves dealing with all sorts of uniformed monkees on arrival. Every single uniform monkey encountered in the US is an unpleasant experience. 1931615;1566936888;BingoBoingo;Down here, no one hates me for the color of my skin. One of my last memories of the US was the TSA monkeys and the contempt that bled through everything the agent that handled me did. 1931616;1566936896;BingoBoingo;His skin hate radiated. 1931617;1566937343;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i won't dispute that it's quite unpleasant. but will remind, i sit there year-round 1931618;1566937396;asciilifeform;fwiw the inspector monkeys in usa , such that i saw in washingtonistan, were harmless, sat and played tetrisen on pnojes 1931619;1566937413;BingoBoingo;I have trouble understanding how you manage to after having traveled outside the zone. 1931620;1566937419;asciilifeform;mostly sad white d00dz , in their 20s, there was no slot at patent office for'em, evidently 1931621;1566937492;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i manage to so that to conjure up with what to power asciilifeform's little orchestra, which includes e.g. the expedition and its payload. 1931622;1566937527;asciilifeform;if i knew how to do this in antarctica -- would do it there. would prefer the company of the penguins to ameri-muppets, verily. 1931623;1566937580;BingoBoingo;STL Lambert Intl was all ghetto kangz and queenz pissed whitey would dare take a flight in the morning and justifying the TSA being at the Airport at that hour. 1931624;1566937601;asciilifeform;interesting. one might naively imagine that bmore port would consist of these -- but it didn't. 1931625;1566937608;asciilifeform;i suppose they're all manning lafond's shop 1931626;1566937672;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in local news, the absolute worst thing done by same demographic, different destination: https://archive.is/7ovs0 "Eso, después de un paseo por Malvin hoy, en varias plazas ví macumbas con pollos decapitados, frutas por doquier y velas, alguien sabe quién las hace, por qué y si es legal? Dejan todo tirado y a mí me parece sumamente asqueroso" 1931627;1566937706;asciilifeform;pollos decapitados ? lol -- vooddists ? 1931628;1566937747;BingoBoingo;Yeah, old black women littering 1931629;1566937783;asciilifeform;oh hey loox like i have my notes mixed up -- bmore is from where went to argentina. to BingoBoingo went from dulles (greater washingtonistan) 1931630;1566937838;*;asciilifeform goes, always , from where cheapest , to the penny 1931631;1566938036;*;asciilifeform wonders if the folx at http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931579 are moar 'uppity' on acct of distance from the payola trough mecca 1931632;1566938037;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 17:09:15 BingoBoingo: STL Lambert Intl was all ghetto kangz and queenz pissed whitey would dare take a flight in the morning and justifying the TSA being at the Airport at that hour. 1931633;1566938153;asciilifeform;i've stood in multi-kilometre queues in ameri-airports. but never yet encountered any of the famous abuses. 1931634;1566938179;asciilifeform;the only times had to even haggle, was with orcs in orcistans. 1931635;1566938447;asciilifeform;'esteemed sir inspector, wouldja like to see how this machine worx?' 'get outta my sight' 1931636;1566938643;BingoBoingo;I don't know where a multi-kilometer line isn't an abuse in itself 1931637;1566938661;asciilifeform;as i understand, you get those always, unless you've yer own airplane. 1931638;1566938708;asciilifeform;after 1st trip ( mircea_popescu's ro ) , asciilifeform bought that subscription for 'get back in usa w/out line', was worth erry penny 1931639;1566938720;asciilifeform;still line to come ~out~ tho. 1931640;1566938820;*;asciilifeform previously to mircea_popescu's party in timis, asciilifeform spent 20y not even having occasion to go in airplane anywhere. 1931641;1566938931;asciilifeform;( why? from combination of 'to where to go?' and [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-08-25#1000616]['when?'] ) 1931642;1566938931;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 18:53:47 asciilifeform: diana_coman: to add a few brush strokes to the picture of usa -- and perhaps already you knew -- 1) most folx get ~0 'vacation'. they nominally get '2 wks' but is reserved in practice for illness ; 2) are paid just enuff to stay alive (and locate themselves within vicinity of the mines) , 2-3 missed weeks of pay means destitution . 1931643;1566939208;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931572 << i suspect exaggerated. even when i went to heart of lafondistan, 'darkest africa', when attempted to buy dilapidated building -- went into where the orcs were, their [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-07-03#1495968]['food depot'] even, and no one put knife in, no one even spat in asciilifeform's face or even could be aroused to utter insult 1931644;1566939208;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 16:57:51 BingoBoingo: His skin hate radiated. 1931645;1566939209;snsabot;Logged on 2016-07-03 14:15:17 asciilifeform: if you can call 'food depot' etc. living. 1931646;1566939240;asciilifeform;the poor zeks gave much moar impression of being ~tired~ of life, rather than belligerent . 1931647;1566939321;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu had even moar picturesque story, where not only not insulted but had excellent rapport w/ entire bus fulla these , and they all asked for him to become their che guevara 1931648;1566939381;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: up through mid-Obama I dealing even with the uniformed sort could be very pleasant. 1931649;1566939553;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i dunno how many of these folx at any given time even know who is on the iron throne. 1931650;1566939585;asciilifeform;they live in entirely parallel universe, the 1 described in mircea_popescu's 'the tide dollar' piece. 1931651;1566953096;lobbes;I remember for about 4 years or so I lived in an apartment literally on the "other side of the railroad tracks" (this was back in northern Ohio; I've bounced around the country). It was predominantly darker skinned folk, and I am a super-white ginger. Never had a single issue; everyone was friendly towards me. One time the entire parking lot was "robbed"; all cars broken into but mine was passed over 1931652;1566953102;lobbes;somehow. 1931653;1566953104;lobbes;Hell, at one point I even played guitar in the local all-black church. The only thing that made me uncomfortable about that was the fact that I have 0 belief in a god, and that the damn band leader would never give me the song list no matter how much I asked. Always had to improvise. 1931654;1566953598;lobbes;!!up shrysr 1931655;1566953599;deedbot;shrysr voiced for 30 minutes. 1931656;1566954542;lobbes;I used to fly a lot too, tho, and regardless of the skin color the TSA monkeys were always unpleasant to deal with. I would always feel raped by the time I was done getting through the lines; complete with my pants falling down and holding my shoes while running for my flight. 1931657;1566957019;asciilifeform;lobbes: different rapes for different folx, i suspect. asciilifeform for instance 'feels raped' much moar greatly by the tax collector, than by the ceremonial funnel where one is to put shoes at bushized airport. 1931658;1566957471;asciilifeform;incidentally, i agree w/ mircea_popescu re 'airport strippings have ~popular~ support in usa' but not with his hypothesis re why ( sumthing with 'cuckism' ). instead i suspect it's an idjit stab at 'class warfare' , the ~90% of usa that can't afford to ride in an airplane delights in hearing 'them snooty fucks in suits' getting stripped 1931659;1566957540;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-06-19#1672306][see also e.g.] 1931660;1566957540;snsabot;Logged on 2017-06-19 13:21:57 asciilifeform: 'недобитый kulak dekulakized!' newz at 11 1931661;1566957708;asciilifeform;or see also [http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/?b=Not&e=likes#select][ mircea_popescu's 'buffett's tax' ] piece . 1931662;1566957815;asciilifeform;i.e. where 'class war!111' fuckwits in usa cheered at 'raise tax rate' until then find ~themselves~ expected to pay same % as buffett would pay if he were to ever pay at all 1931663;1566957952;asciilifeform;unlike expert entomologists like mircea_popescu , trinque , et al, i dun have much contact with the 'illiterate 20yos' set, but enuff to know that they somehow think 'rich' is what their employed older brothers , parents, are, they have no concept of the real thing even in head 1931664;1566958061;asciilifeform;so idjits go, 'tax the rich!111', buffett : 'yes, yes, tax the rich', while he cackles 'all the way to bank' 1931665;1566958457;asciilifeform;the old reds had a point when wrote 'you cannot disassemble the master's house with the master's tools' or what was it. 1931666;1566959199;BingoBoingo;My impression of the TSA was welfare folks pissed they had to show up somewhere and do some motions to get their dole 1931667;1566959418;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931614 << oya; the "occupy butt street" idjits I went to school with back in the day got hard-ons at "taxing those rich bastards who dare to create industry" 1931668;1566959418;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 22:40:47 asciilifeform: incidentally, i agree w/ mircea_popescu re 'airport strippings have ~popular~ support in usa' but not with his hypothesis re why ( sumthing with 'cuckism' ). instead i suspect it's an idjit stab at 'class warfare' , the ~90% of usa that can't afford to ride in an airplane delights in hearing 'them snooty fucks in suits' getting stripped 1931669;1566959433;lobbes;amusingly, to this day, however I'll always dress in a suit for air travel. After enough experimenting I discovered that indeed I get better treatment when I do (often am addressed with 'sir' than when in jeanz and t-shirt, get moar attention from the attendants etc). Why? Because the airlines *know* that a huge % of their business comes from... repeat business travelers! Can't kill industry 1931670;1566959458;lobbes;but these beasts, as BingoBoingo points, are different items from the TSA monkeys who are mostly the welfare folx 1931671;1566959958;asciilifeform;lobbes: even ill-fitting suit that'd look at home on a defrocked ex-maffs prof turned hobo, worx a++ wonders in airport. 1931672;1566960124;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931623 << the rage aint even misplaced -- 0 of the folx alive presently, king or slave, had ~anyffin to do with 'create industry'. futile rage, is all. 1931673;1566960124;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 23:13:14 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931614 << oya; the "occupy butt street" idjits I went to school with back in the day got hard-ons at "taxing those rich bastards who dare to create industry" 1931674;1566960375;asciilifeform;for futile rage of farm animal, convenient victim doll will be given. in 1940 same raging plebes wanted 'gas rothchild'. instead gassed shoemakers who used to fix their shoes, tailor who usedto fix their coat. rothchild unscathed, richer than ever. 1931675;1566960714;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931622 << starvation wage in combination with utterly, screamingly pointless work, will do that 1931676;1566960714;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 23:09:35 BingoBoingo: My impression of the TSA was welfare folks pissed they had to show up somewhere and do some motions to get their dole 1931677;1566961363;asciilifeform;meanwhile, [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pizarro/2019-08-27#1000155][folx queued for piz] even. 1931678;1566961364;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 18:54:53 thimbronion: FYI if you get more rockchips in I will lease one. 1931679;1566961439;lobbes;In other news, I just applied the suggested html comments bug fix from diana_coman to blog >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/on-relationships-or-how-pretense-kills/comment-page-1/#comment-76 1931680;1566961452;lobbes;seems to be working fine, but plox anyone to let me know if oddities 1931681;1566961510;lobbes;and ty hanbot for the authoring the fix! 1931682;1566961748;lobbes;I noticed that the test comment went through much quicker, so perhaps this also was the potential bug [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931282][mp encountered] 1931683;1566961748;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 17:49:51 mircea_popescu: lobbes, incidentally, your blog takes an ungodly amt of time to take a comment. must be some kinda bug somewheres. 1931684;1566961763;lobbes;hanbot's patch removed a query to a table that did not exist in my mysql database, so perhaps this was the cause of the lag; time will tell I guess 1931685;1566961829;lobbes;now to get proper server-side selection working 1931686;1566962965;BingoBoingo;lobbes: First go to your settings, Discussion settings, "other comment settings" and uncheck the box for "Break comments into pages" 1931687;1566963543;lobbes;BingoBoingo: wait, this for server-side selection? Or is this a known fix for teh comment lag? 1931688;1566963659;lobbes;in any case, I have unchecked suggested box 1931689;1566963778;lobbes;meanwhile, I've found the [http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/][trilema for server-side selection]. Will apply and report back 1931690;1566964701;lobbes;well, that was simple! Mah blog nao has proper server-side selection. Ty mircea_popescu and co. for that fix. (and ty BingoBoingo for unrelated fix) 1931691;1566964734;lobbes;my blog grows leaner and meaner by the hour 1931692;1566979692;mircea_popescu;incidentally, lobbes , not to cramp your style, but... how old was the subbie you propositioned ? 1931693;1566990879;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/the-forest/ << lobbesblog -- The Forest 1931694;1566991085;lobbes;mircea_popescu: I don't really have a style to cramp atm; I'll eat any and all knowledge right now 1931695;1566991088;lobbes;it was maybe a month or so ago (and over the interwebz), so I can't remember fully, but I want to say she was ~25 years old mebbe 1931696;1566992445;*;lobbes off to mines, bbl 1931697;1567004244;BingoBoingo;lobbes: In other news, its been 4 years since you last wrote for Qntra, but you are still very welcome to contribute. 1931698;1567004460;BingoBoingo;And in supremely sad local economic indicators a Paraguayo "alternative" firm made the news for targeting Uruguay with the offer. Local media not particularly skeptical. 1931699;1567004510;BingoBoingo;"Los perfiles que sean seleccionados tendrán inicialmente un contrato a prueba por 60 días, cuyos detalles se estipularán antes del viajar. También se ofrecerá capacitación y finalizada esa etapa, si la evaluación es satisfactoria pasarán a ser funcionarios del grupo. La empresa dará asistencia en los trámites legales y en áreas como el alojamiento, por ejemplo. Según Estaras, se ofrecerán salarios “a la 1931700;1567004510;BingoBoingo;par” e incluso “superiores” a los que hoy se pagan en Uruguay para las áreas requeridas." 1931701;1567004658;BingoBoingo;Now it could be the case the Para-rotary firm needs to fill seats with cheap Uru-rotary college boys and is simply over estimating the value of Uru-rotary paper holders. 1931702;1567014412;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931645 << congrats lobbes ! [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/the-forest/?b=futility&e=manalone#select][tested -- worx]. i still gotta do same in my www ( and munge the 9000 old-fashioned selects.. ) 1931703;1567014412;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 00:25:55 lobbes: meanwhile, I've found the [http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/][trilema for server-side selection]. Will apply and report back 1931704;1567014464;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/assholes-fork-gimp-over-problematic-name/ << Qntra -- Assholes Fork GIMP Over 'Problematic' Name 1931705;1567014837;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: per my lights, 'gimp' died years ago, when went to 'mandatory' gtk3 . 1931706;1567014853;asciilifeform;last usable ver afaik circa-2011ish. 1931707;1567014928;asciilifeform;(gtk3 is fatwa'd, as it sucks in 'dbus' and thereby systemdism. [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2018-12-11#1879922][see also.] ) 1931708;1567014929;snsabot;Logged on 2018-12-11 18:51:03 asciilifeform: ( gtk3 is on asciilifeform's published gentoo-banhammer roster ) 1931709;1567015948;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: That's one level of retardation. Crying ableism when visual media is inaccessible to the totally blind is a completely other level of retardation. 1931710;1567016256;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931651 << now that's just plain silly. why not talk to a 50yo slave with 2-3 decades' experience instead ? she's much more likely to [http://trilema.com/2010/sa-facem-o-regula/?b=Oricum&e=se%20cere#select][can be bothered with you] in the first place, and much more likely to have what for you to learn if she does. even her owner might be more tolerant. 1931711;1567016257;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 08:01:06 lobbes: it was maybe a month or so ago (and over the interwebz), so I can't remember fully, but I want to say she was ~25 years old mebbe 1931712;1567016266;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if you recall the 'coreboot'->'libreboot' tardism -- was similar, maggot eruption after many many yrs of decay in the grave. 1931713;1567016314;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu 1931714;1567016316;mircea_popescu;30yo with no experience has exactly 0 business talking to 20something subbies as a general rule, it's a complete mismatch, like taking pepper and cinnamon TO the indies. 1931715;1567016317;mircea_popescu;heya alf. 1931716;1567016342;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: how's old europistan this time of yr ? 1931717;1567016399;mircea_popescu;hot. 1931718;1567016410;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: AHA, 'libreboot' was dysfunctional tranny coup 1931719;1567016427;mircea_popescu;and the problem with this part of the lands is that the sluts are short. 1931720;1567016455;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: aha. but coup of already corpse project. sorta like 'robbing' 1 of those boarded up banks that closed in 2000s, that litter the landscape in east ameristan 1931721;1567016505;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the last x86 irons that actually work with 'coreboot', recall, were sold in '13. 1931722;1567016541;asciilifeform;the 1 exception being 'apu1' , but is sewn from 2013 'g-series' that amd is constantly threatening to 'end of life' 1931723;1567016573;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: This still is for no fault of the coreboot team. Not when the libreboot transteam went and broke things that already worked under coreboot 1931724;1567016579;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: which reminds me : i'll be buying 4 of these. 1931725;1567016583;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931662 << but perfectly usable and perfectly useful. 1931726;1567016584;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 14:37:13 asciilifeform: last usable ver afaik circa-2011ish. 1931727;1567016592;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, i still use mine 1931728;1567016593;mircea_popescu;i still have cca 2007 installs that work fine 1931729;1567016602;asciilifeform;( mine -- 2011 ) 1931730;1567016631;*;asciilifeform liked 'gimp' , aside from the asinine window system. even got it to work with electric pen thing at one pt 1931731;1567016753;mircea_popescu;i like it too. 1931732;1567016962;BingoBoingo;GIMP is the perfect example of, "does what you want *UNLESS* you upgrade" 1931733;1567017107;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: asciilifeform was 1 time 'lucky' enuff to find an edge case where gimp barfed and had to resort to a heathen photo editor on toilet box . ( stitching segments of photos that weighed GB+ , in the lispm reversing series. on very similar irons, the heathen proggy ran, gimp -- ground to halt. i suspect gimp has some o(n^2)-isms in it. ) 1931734;1567017159;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Not improbably, but I suspect in newer GIMPS the edge cases are further degraded. 1931735;1567017170;asciilifeform;i'd be quite surprised if not 1931736;1567017211;asciilifeform;and i suspect that most folx could live 100 yrs and not ever run into a case of editing a 2GB bitmap. 1931737;1567017266;asciilifeform;it was a very unusual -- and hence memorable -- case, where microshit actually worked where human tool did not. 1931738;1567017319;*;asciilifeform wondered -- on acct of what reich use case, did they actually bother to optimize for ram-filling photo. perhaps spy sats ? 1931739;1567017541;mircea_popescu;riding atop gimp, i never encountered a case where mactardation was even usable. we're not talking here microsoft (shit never worked), nor holy shit "gimp not werk". 1931740;1567017544;BingoBoingo;Could be other Incan military applications https://i.imgur.com/7SQQSkj.jpg 1931741;1567017545;mircea_popescu;never saw such winder. 1931742;1567017620;asciilifeform;holyfuq BingoBoingo , what is that ? midget corps ? 1931743;1567017656;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I have not found context for the where it is from yet 1931744;1567017668;asciilifeform;( if these were in sovok, could be tank brigate, iirc you had to be under 160cm ) 1931745;1567017672;asciilifeform;*brigade 1931746;1567017721;BingoBoingo;My impression is that the group is "chromosone heavy" infantry 1931747;1567018039;asciilifeform;'here is light infantry, they get 1l of cocacola / d.' 'here -- heavy infantry, they get 3L.' 1931748;1567018186;BingoBoingo;Well, the thing is once USG turned to waivers to put more dole on the defense budget... I can't tell if those are enlisted marines or honored "make a wish" outreach victims. 1931749;1567018373;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: at one time there was (is?) such a thing as 'theoretical' soldiers, in usa army. you walk in with a diploma, they sew you a uniform, you go an' 'soldier' in e.g. lab salt mine. at one time asciilifeform worked in a place fulla these. but even they looked moar like someone you could put in a field, than this. 1931750;1567018458;asciilifeform;i specifically recall a ru d00d. rank of no less than major. a: 'what the hell are you doing here' he : 'what ~you~ doing here' 1931751;1567018514;asciilifeform;never found out what is the max rank for orc in usa army. perhaps there's an orc general even somewhere. 1931752;1567018676;asciilifeform;mostly these folx had 'medical' epaulettes. 1931753;1567018799;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931666 >> 'Ajunsi in acest punct, hai sa facem o noua regula : cine n-are o suta de dolari de aruncat pe luna, .... n-a atins inca maturitatea sociala care sa-i ingaduie sa umble dupa fete' << rly, 100 ? or is this from epoch when 100 bought a flat in orcistan ? 1931754;1567018799;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 15:00:36 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931651 << now that's just plain silly. why not talk to a 50yo slave with 2-3 decades' experience instead ? she's much more likely to [http://trilema.com/2010/sa-facem-o-regula/?b=Oricum&e=se%20cere#select][can be bothered with you] in the first place, and much more likely to have what for you to learn if she does. even her owner might be more tolerant. 1931755;1567021965;mircea_popescu;no, it's from the epoch where teens whined that omfg, "she's claiming not to be a whore but expects me to pay for the coffee" 1931756;1567021979;mircea_popescu;100% contemporary frisco. 1931757;1567033919;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931653 << ty BingoBoingo. I'll keep my eyeballs peeled for lulz, but I'll be honest in that the quality of Qntra over the years has been so good that I barely get my lulz from any other source these days! 1931758;1567033920;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 11:40:23 BingoBoingo: lobbes: In other news, its been 4 years since you last wrote for Qntra, but you are still very welcome to contribute. 1931759;1567033943;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931658 << ty! I got some old-fashioned selects to update as well, tho not nearly as many as asciilifeform and mircea_popescu. Prolly the only good aspect right now of having a nascent blog atm 1931760;1567033943;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 14:29:52 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931645 << congrats lobbes ! [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/the-forest/?b=futility&e=manalone#select][tested -- worx]. i still gotta do same in my www ( and munge the 9000 old-fashioned selects.. ) 1931761;1567033954;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931666 << Thank you. I was thinking this was the way to go as most of the folx giving me the best advice at those meetings (and online for that matter) were, in fact, older subbie girls near their 50s, followed by the 'old guard' owners. 1931762;1567033954;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 15:00:36 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931651 << now that's just plain silly. why not talk to a 50yo slave with 2-3 decades' experience instead ? she's much more likely to [http://trilema.com/2010/sa-facem-o-regula/?b=Oricum&e=se%20cere#select][can be bothered with you] in the first place, and much more likely to have what for you to learn if she does. even her owner might be more tolerant. 1931763;1567033964;lobbes;The youngsters, while friendly, seemed more preoccupied with 'playing scenes' (which are a blast to watch, dun get me wrong, but I desire moar) 1931764;1567033977;lobbes;It shouldn't be a surprise that I weigh mircea_popescu's advice in such matters with a tad more weight, so when it lines up with my observations in the field it usually is a sign I'm on the right track 1931765;1567034177;lobbes;incidentally, it may be time I join the rotaku club. Good % of Trilema that I can't even begin to read 1931766;1567034544;asciilifeform;lobbes: afaik, that'll make 2, of us 1931767;1567034574;asciilifeform;( not counting mircea_popescu's 'inpatients' , that is ) 1931768;1567034799;asciilifeform;lobbes: see [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-10-24#1728250][this] old thrd . handy. 1931769;1567034799;snsabot;Logged on 2017-10-24 16:53:07 asciilifeform: prolly only cure is actually snarfing in a few kilometres of ro voice track. 1931770;1567035062;lobbes;I assume that having quality material with which to read is a good motivator as well. I confess to trying to learn Japanese for a spell; memorized most of the hiragana, started on the katakana, and then went "when the hell will I ever USE this??" then kind of stopped 1931771;1567035136;asciilifeform;lobbes: i've been doing jp for coupla yr nao. recreationally, only. 1931772;1567035166;asciilifeform;could ~maybe~ pass 1st grade. 1931773;1567035181;lobbes;hey, that's something. I never even ate a single kanji 1931774;1567035250;asciilifeform;interestingly, the americans, who colonized and subjugated jp, to this day produced ~0 usable lit re the lang. ~all of asciilifeform's working materials -- from su. 1931775;1567035298;lobbes;I can imagine 1931776;1567035513;asciilifeform;lobbes: if you abstract past the hieroglyphs-- is easier to eat than any euro lang. no declensions, no conjugation , very little of what euro folx normally think of as grammar gnarl. 1931777;1567035686;asciilifeform;perhaps one day jp will rip out of the yoke... 1931778;1567035749;lobbes;now this is interesting. Once I understood that they had two distinct scripts with identical phonemes purely to denote emphasis/no-emphasis I got a little spooked that the rest would be way too insane to understand 1931779;1567035774;lobbes;I never made it to the actual grammar 1931780;1567035784;asciilifeform;this is not accurate summary of why diff scripts, lobbes 1931781;1567035805;lobbes;aha. goes to show your point about the ~0 usable lit then haha 1931782;1567035877;lobbes;I was thinking katakana ~= "italicized" in eng. this is not the case? 1931783;1567035935;asciilifeform;there's the hieroglyphs ('kanji') which cover normal adult lit , or rather 95%; connective tissue , proper names, older loan words -- in 'hiragana' ( syllabic ); 'katakana' ( a sort of minimalist hiragana, moar 'runic' aesthetic ) largely for foreign words, names of dirty euro devils, some children's lit. 1931784;1567035983;lobbes;ahh okay 1931785;1567036018;asciilifeform;hieroglyphs -- to the annoyance of white devils -- ea. have at least 2 pronunciations, dep. on context 1931786;1567036091;asciilifeform;('on' -- 'chinese-like' / vs. 'kun' -- 'native'. famously illustrated by 'seppuku/harakiri', 'on'/'kun' respective pair of same kanji string. ) 1931787;1567036113;asciilifeform;for details/nitpicks refer to actual experts. 1931788;1567036157;lobbes;this may go to mircea_popescu's old point of "with language, like sex, there is no drawbacks to starting with master class" 1931789;1567036167;lobbes;perhaps starting with kanji not a bad idea 1931790;1567036365;asciilifeform;lobbes: normally folks start with the kana ( or you can't even read a normal dictionary or kindergarten-level book etc ) 1931791;1567036537;*;asciilifeform is thinking, prolly he is the last 1 who oughta give folx advice re languages. his methods , likely , are applicable to ~nobody. prolly even mircea_popescu's method ( house pets ) is moar widely usable . 1931792;1567036803;lobbes;well most learning materials I've read did suggest to start with kana, for that specific reason 1931793;1567037805;BingoBoingo;lobbes: Well, the idea behind Qntra is if you see a lol, you share the lol and through this process Qntra grows in both author count and in lol enjoying population 1931794;1567038363;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931384 << what's the url you want to have? possibly doable as apache-level URL rewrite 1931795;1567038364;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 11:17:48 asciilifeform: it'd have to by the ugly-as-arse /log/chan/index#index or sumsuch 1931796;1567038528;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931432 << his flippant seroquel shit *riled me up* 1931797;1567038528;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 13:27:15 mircea_popescu: add to that the FUCKING INSANE tlp being annoying as fuck, i'm having a blogging crisis over here 1931798;1567038659;asciilifeform;trinque: basic desired scheme is http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931395 1931799;1567038659;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 11:35:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931353 << phf yer missing the point , i need so that http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-16#758070 AND http://btcbase.org/log/1945-07-16#758070 go to same thing ! 1931800;1567038706;asciilifeform;i.e. errything oughta work just as presently, BUT with the index being the actual determinator of where link goes. 1931801;1567038741;asciilifeform;( incl. the page scroll to anchor and highlight must remain working just as now ) 1931802;1567038792;trinque;what on the backend determines URL routing? 1931803;1567038802;asciilifeform;( the reason for this itch is that i have found it to be impossible to guarantee that all dates agree ) 1931804;1567038832;asciilifeform;trinque: i dun think i understand the q 1931805;1567038876;asciilifeform;trinque: see linked mircea_popescu thread. it appears to be the case that anchors in fact are not transmitted to the remote end, at all. 1931806;1567038886;trinque;from the other end, why not / instead of # 1931807;1567038901;asciilifeform;cuz how to make it scroll to pos ? 1931808;1567038902;trinque;yep, they are not. they're an in-page link from ye olde times 1931809;1567038933;trinque;willing to use a minimal amount of JS? 1931810;1567038945;asciilifeform;trinque: no js ugh 1931811;1567038965;asciilifeform;right nao my proggy is 100% js-free 1931812;1567039046;asciilifeform;currently closest thing i had to a workable idea is /chan/idx#x ( where #x is simply a fixed string ) and generated page contains #x in the right pos, and coloured line there. 1931813;1567039048;trinque;heh, I can go hankier. you could instead have a server-side rewrite rule that 301 redirects from / to # 1931814;1567039076;trinque;then referrer contains the ID 1931815;1567039085;asciilifeform;trinque: dun seem like any standard-compliant www end ( front or back ) ever sees # or any text after. 1931816;1567039087;trinque;this is the batshit and denuding coad diana_coman wanted ! 1931817;1567039205;asciilifeform;( my notion above, /chan/optionaldate/index#x , is cribbed from mircea_popescu's selection colourer ) 1931818;1567039222;trinque;asciilifeform: considered just giving every line a UUID instead of int identifier? 1931819;1567039245;asciilifeform;trinque: all historical logs must remain valid 1931820;1567039272;asciilifeform;but i'm curious, how does 'uuid' differ from integer ? 1931821;1567039281;asciilifeform;i mean, in practical terms 1931822;1567039351;trinque;lemme go back and try and figure out what exactly is the problem you're trying to solve, unless you'd endulge me with a restatement, because I don't think I'm following. 1931823;1567039368;asciilifeform;trinque: visit the linked thread, it is short. 1931824;1567039422;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931397 << yes, I don't understand what it means to both be decorative and work correctly 1931825;1567039423;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 11:35:50 asciilifeform: dates gotta be decorative and work correctly while being so, or oughta go entirely. 1931826;1567039441;asciilifeform;it means that the lookup must be by idx, not by date 1931827;1567039482;asciilifeform;but at the same time all links are displayed on www from within a calendarized page just as now , with date in the base url ( the date my logger believes they occurred on ) 1931828;1567039549;trinque;I wouldn't even consider it a sin if you just went back and fixed all the links to point to present logger, and in so doing, fixed the format. 1931829;1567039557;trinque;isn't the former already contemplated? 1931830;1567039598;asciilifeform;trinque: this would simply throw the problem into the lap of people trying to make own loggers that sync with mine. 1931831;1567039606;asciilifeform;clocks are basically rubbish on pc. 1931832;1567039657;trinque;how? you'd have /log/$channel/$date/$canonicalId and use the latter for line lookup, and the penultimate for paging 1931833;1567039682;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-10#1927171 << see also 1931834;1567039683;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-10 10:25:59 asciilifeform: when wrote 1st draft of logotron, i made mistake of sorting ~by time~, ended up with soup displayed 1931835;1567039737;trinque;yep, so I retract the UUID proposal. 1931836;1567039744;asciilifeform;trinque: above seems to be exactly what i suggested. but as i understand will also need #x or such, to scroll to line 1931837;1567039798;asciilifeform;it's headache, but as i understand the shitsoup standard offers no clean knob for it 1931838;1567039799;trinque;yeah, can 301 redirec them to a URL which includes the anchor for the line they requested 1931839;1567039805;trinque;*redirect 1931840;1567039816;asciilifeform;hmm 1931841;1567039845;asciilifeform;so #'s can be sent ~to~ client ? that's possibly working pill 1931842;1567039871;asciilifeform;tho still ugh cuz what if i'm pasting from browser into irc 1931843;1567039875;trinque;I believe so, yes 1931844;1567039885;asciilifeform;nao cannot paste from url bar , only log line mouse ? ugh 1931845;1567039915;asciilifeform;seems like there is no clean pill, only decision of where we can move the dirt. 1931846;1567039927;trinque;sounds about right for wwwtronix 1931847;1567039969;trinque;actually my first proposal gets you clean URLs 1931848;1567039971;asciilifeform;i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and see what he thinks before changing proggy. and whoknows, maybe we both missed sumthing. 1931849;1567039976;asciilifeform;hm? 1931850;1567039976;trinque;so to start from scratch: 1931851;1567040117;trinque;turns out I'm quite tired. I think the above is probably the cleanest solution. will think moar and rejoin thread 1931852;1567040131;asciilifeform;ty trinque 1931853;1567040161;asciilifeform;i've been puzzling over this item but made 0 useful fwd motion yet. 1931854;1567040203;asciilifeform;( ftr '301' dun strictly require apache kludging, it could be done in my proggy per se ) 1931855;1567040241;*;asciilifeform wrote proggy to be reasonably agnostic of frontend 1931856;1567040387;asciilifeform;so seems like best formulation so far is http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931788 plus the proggy feeds client always 301 to the above with #x appended . 1931857;1567040388;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 21:30:38 trinque: how? you'd have /log/$channel/$date/$canonicalId and use the latter for line lookup, and the penultimate for paging 1931858;1567040436;asciilifeform;$date would be unused by the parser, while still being correct in all newly-emitted links 1931859;1567040481;asciilifeform;( should we even have it in the links..? not as if quoting bot doesn't spew the date when quoting ) 1931860;1567040529;trinque;if it hasn't been historically meaningful, honesty says kill it 1931861;1567040611;asciilifeform;my present take on all of this : it ~is~ possible for loggers to agree on ~order~ of lines ( albeit in corner cases, difficult ). however it is not possible for them to properly agree re absolute time. ( and in fact the timestamps in the imported logs are all over the place ) 1931862;1567040667;asciilifeform;i suggested in orig thrd, to throw out the date from url. lessee what mircea_popescu thinks. 1931863;1567040689;trinque;kk 1931864;1567040696;asciilifeform;( note, they can still be displayed in calendarized pages , as now ) 1931865;1567040895;asciilifeform;trinque: re clocks, at one time mircea_popescu suggested to use trb block as clock. but imho is of very limited use as clock, cuz not guaranteed to advance in any given interval. 1931866;1567040907;asciilifeform;( wedge -- clock stops easily for days ) 1931867;1567040993;asciilifeform;i.e. how deedbot. 1931868;1567041009;asciilifeform;but deedbot dun need to go in realtime, unlike logotron. 1931869;1567041123;asciilifeform;( for folx not following in depth -- fleanode does not emit timestamps; they come from local machine where a given logotron ran when it logged a line ) 1931870;1567042197;asciilifeform;btw note, my logotron [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09?ss=1927022&se=1927024#1927022][already knows how to generate colouration on serv end] 1931871;1567042198;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 17:36:55 mircea_popescu: earlier stopped at gelateria. nicely furnished. had no table service and only paper cups. ONE SIZE. no plates, no nothing. 1931872;1567042241;asciilifeform;hrm did i break that link..? 1931873;1567042278;asciilifeform;nm 1931874;1567042293;*;asciilifeform brb,meat 1931875;1567058836;mircea_popescu;ooo megalog. 1931876;1567059362;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931721 << well, or maybe some of the rotakus in attendance take pity on the inquisitve minds wanting to know and trasnlate some 1931877;1567059363;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 19:59:18 lobbes: incidentally, it may be time I join the rotaku club. Good % of Trilema that I can't even begin to read 1931878;1567059375;mircea_popescu;(i'm pretty sure they would by specific request) 1931879;1567059890;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how [http://trilema.com/2019/usta-swingers-club-ul-jozefa-strusia-5-in-warsaw-poland-and-other-things/#footnote_4_87077][that] goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education, 1931880;1567059890;mircea_popescu;meaning from [http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-21#1026639][seeking] [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926667][power] to seeking potential (the reagent / driver is [http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/][the marginal disutility] of money, rather than simple sclerosis, to be clear). 1931881;1567059890;a111;Logged on 2015-02-21 01:19 mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash" 1931882;1567059890;mircea_popescu;so in practical, male, power-constructed terms, however you wish to call this : if you fail to make good because you spent all your resources hailing twennysomethings, that's a failure of education (ie, blame the parents, shoulda told you better), but if you fail to make it because couldn't find support in the old guard, well, that's the plain failure to thrive (blame self). 1931883;1567059890;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 19:55:35 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931666 << Thank you. I was thinking this was the way to go as most of the folx giving me the best advice at those meetings (and online for that matter) were, in fact, older subbie girls near their 50s, followed by the 'old guard' owners. 1931884;1567059891;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-09 04:01:43 mp_en_viaje: 2) i never made money, i always made power. the money was coincidental. i never made all the money there was to make or could. nor did i ever give much of a shit, i'm utterly not constructive, a world of nothing but mp will burn down. 1931885;1567060076;mircea_popescu;(and, for completeness, i find the misrepresentation thereof as "ethical feeling" as displayed in ustarded tradition from carnegie to buffett ~particularly~ galling. it is EXACTLY iliterate huswife hearing on the radio them paris folk have dat aifl towers and going about her courtyard to identify "what could be that them aifl tower in here". cuz everything has one, right, she knows, like when she was a little girl, those u 1931886;1567060076;mircea_popescu;gly bumps on her chest are her boobs! like she's seen in the hotter older girls with real boobage. 1931887;1567060241;mircea_popescu;so then she picks the garbage pile the rooster sits on, calls it aifl tower and tells all her ingroup. cuz right, it makes sense, rooster ? gaelic cock ? it's even kinda shaped similarily! then through the "beauty" of the internet her stupid fucking son is going to pester dictionary writers to "be inclusive" and treat the eiffel tower ~AS A CLASS~ rather than as an item, and discuss "other examples" in the first stage, the 1931888;1567060241;mircea_popescu;n "find allies" and "break down the priviledge"... the intellectual socioeconomy of ustarded morons is quite well understood by now.) 1931889;1567060415;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931730 << ustards very much ottoman/manchuko sorta "monkey accidentally came on top of man, drives decay" sorta "invader". fundamentally sterile inferior foreigner kinda occupation. 1931890;1567060415;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 20:17:11 asciilifeform: interestingly, the americans, who colonized and subjugated jp, to this day produced ~0 usable lit re the lang. ~all of asciilifeform's working materials -- from su. 1931891;1567060535;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid. 1931892;1567060535;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 20:32:28 lobbes: perhaps starting with kanji not a bad idea 1931893;1567060564;mircea_popescu;but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success) 1931894;1567060711;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931765 << let's not js anymoar, experince shows it's never the right answer 1931895;1567060712;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 21:18:34 trinque: willing to use a minimal amount of JS? 1931896;1567060777;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931769 << but if you redirect both you end up with endless redirect, and if you only redirect one either the server doesn't know what link is sought or the client doesn't scroll to the desired position. 1931897;1567060777;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 21:20:29 trinque: heh, I can go hankier. you could instead have a server-side rewrite rule that 301 redirects from / to # 1931898;1567061677;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931804 <<->> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-27#1931386 1931899;1567061678;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-28 21:35:52 asciilifeform: i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and see what he thinks before changing proggy. and whoknows, maybe we both missed sumthing. 1931900;1567061678;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-27 11:18:24 mircea_popescu: let this sit for a little we think more of it. 1931901;1567061692;mircea_popescu;dun have to be solved today, we'll live for quite a while as it stands. 1931902;1567067456;mircea_popescu;trinque, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-26#1931280 ? 1931903;1567067457;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-26 17:24:16 mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.5 12tGxcb82jAgCCpCga4yoGtAvZkgst3jrk 1931904;1567067513;mircea_popescu;apparently the prev one also 1931905;1567080906;trinque;various "block explorers" show that one as shipped. afaik all have. 1931906;1567084274;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931856 << aint catastrophically burning, troo; but it does block import of pre-'dragon' log until fixed (and, current log links may in fact slowly break as machine clock drifts ) 1931907;1567084274;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 03:37:54 mircea_popescu: dun have to be solved today, we'll live for quite a while as it stands. 1931908;1567084461;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931848 << this character mentioned 4 or 5 times recently... but does it have a name ? ( i admit, when 1st saw picture, assumed it was a young photo-shy hanbot ) 1931909;1567084461;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 03:19:07 mircea_popescu: but i lack ammo, as i don't japanese myself. (the naked girl in snow, she spent 10 years of her life trying to get to the bottom o fthat pile, with mixed success) 1931910;1567084722;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931846 << ameritards wrote books where all examples given in translit ! moar or less guaranteeing that whoever studies from these, can only parrot -- and poorly, the phonemes dun correspond to the eng ones ( tho funnily enuff they mostly exist in ru ) 1931911;1567084723;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 03:18:37 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931745 << absolutely. i always suspected the "ease them in" approach as practiced ~everywhere is just fucking stupid. 1931912;1567085810;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931861 << ought add, it will also create strong headache when the other bots stand up. none of the links will be guaranteed portable b/w bots , even if pains are taken to sync clocks. they drift. 1931913;1567085811;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 09:54:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931856 << aint catastrophically burning, troo; but it does block import of pre-'dragon' log until fixed (and, current log links may in fact slowly break as machine clock drifts ) 1931914;1567092328;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1931915;1567092328;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 13d 1h 44m 1931916;1567093650;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: meanwhile i found a fitting GB switch. 1u plant will thereby house 15 rk . 1931917;1567093660;asciilifeform;( 1 hole is taken up by the exit cable ) 1931918;1567093682;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'ma still get 16 rk, 1 will be spare. 1931919;1567093833;asciilifeform;annoyingly , they all run on 12v, so can't use single-output 5v high current thing like i was initially planning, for the entire thing 1931920;1567094178;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Very good news 1931921;1567095009;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: any news on your front ? ( in particular, found reasonably-priced castle for mp ? ) 1931922;1567096044;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'm working on organizing a break down of the situation. It's a very map-heavy exercise 1931923;1567096100;asciilifeform;i can picture. 1931924;1567096197;asciilifeform;meanwhile, asciilifeform realized that can use standard 1u atx ps, w/ 'breakout board' , to get the req'd 20A 5v + 1A 12v. 1931925;1567096476;BingoBoingo;In local news, don't skimp on the quicklime https://www.sudestada.com.uy/articleId__1a7440e0-0947-439f-9437-327a3cb95b6e/10893/Detalle-de-Noticia 1931926;1567104058;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: meanwhile rk (16) + heat sinks bought. 1st major chunk of the new crate. 670 ($) . ( still need cabling, ps , the ssd's, and naturally to assemble. ) 1931927;1567104078;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty 1931928;1567104144;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'ma weld the support nuts to the pedestal, this time, nomoar fiddlings in hotel room. 1931929;1567104167;BingoBoingo;AHA, tyvm 1931930;1567104196;asciilifeform;will post photo 'porn' when assembled, for aficionados. 1931931;1567104279;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ? 1931932;1567104279;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1931933;1567104596;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/magistrate-judge-rules-of-federal-procedure-common-law-and-hoaxtoshi-collide-in-absolutley-schizophrenic-ruling/ << Qntra -- Magistrate Judge, Rules Of Federal Procedure, Common Law, And Hoaxtoshi Collide In Absolutley Schizophrenic Ruling 1931934;1567107974;diana_coman;asciilifeform: in your logbot readme: shouldn't it be create database nsalog; instead of createdb? at least my postgres chokes on createdb under psql 1931935;1567110307;lobbes;diana_coman: I had same observation: see >> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-17#1929471 1931936;1567110307;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-17 18:09:22 trinque: two different things; he's talking about the shell tool, and you're talking about the sql command 1931937;1567110538;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931835 << that was an educational footnote,ty. Also a good reminder that I am still in 'dirt' status, and to not let any of the [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/the-forest/?b=As%20you%20do&e=human#select][cannibals out there] try and lead me back into pretense 1931938;1567110538;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 03:07:52 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-28#1931717 << that's exactly how [http://trilema.com/2019/usta-swingers-club-ul-jozefa-strusia-5-in-warsaw-poland-and-other-things/#footnote_4_87077][that] goes : as the harem ages, the focus naturally moves from business to education, 1931939;1567110585;lobbes;"This "boy meets girl, they [http://trilema.com/2018/an-examination-of-conflict/][adultify each other]" model is pure halucinatoria, the very substance of delirium and psychosis. It does not exist, nor ever has existed, nor ever will exist in reality." << sheesh, I've seen that model before 1931940;1567110614;lobbes;I did reach back out to one of the helpful 50 yo subs I talked to though; she actually suggested meeting for coffee sometime, to which I said I'd love to. Hopefully will prove to be a pleasant and educational meeting 1931941;1567110622;lobbes;In other news, I'm emerging a LAMP stack on my [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/how-colocation-america-almost-lost-my-business-but-saved-themselves-in-the-end-for-now-at-least/][new server]. Once complete I'll start futzing with getting the logotron stood up 1931942;1567110639;*;lobbes is determined to beat diana_coman to getting the 2nd logger online 1931943;1567111100;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931889 << diana_coman this is so, i found recently when making mirror . feel free to submit a patch to amend the readme, otherwise it'll go in my next one. 1931944;1567111100;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 16:29:20 diana_coman: asciilifeform: in your logbot readme: shouldn't it be create database nsalog; instead of createdb? at least my postgres chokes on createdb under psql 1931945;1567111248;asciilifeform;diana_coman: also imho it'd be neat if you wrote about how built the mirror, nitpicks, etc. for n00bz. ( i did not have time to write a pedantic cookbook, and as you can see even the readme had mistakes ) 1931946;1567111335;asciilifeform;^ or lobbes , if lobbes gets to finish line 1st 1931947;1567111359;asciilifeform;both lobbes and diana_coman , lemme know when yer ready to sync, i'ma manually refresh the db dump 1931948;1567111378;asciilifeform;( normally it goes at 0hrs nyc time ) 1931949;1567111411;diana_coman;asciilifeform, lobbes fwiw I'm having additional fun due to older versions of postgresql (and last time I used any postgresql was > 12 years ago + never digged it all that much, ffs) 1931950;1567111428;asciilifeform;diana_coman: oughta work with 9 and 10, not tried others 1931951;1567111441;*;lobbes used 9.4 on testbed 1931952;1567111455;lobbes;haven't tried on any other versions yet 1931953;1567111462;diana_coman;asciilifeform: myeah, 8 here; and no "create extension" so had to change the scripts to load the thing 1931954;1567111476;asciilifeform;the only even vaguely version-sensitive knob is the search index 1931955;1567111486;diana_coman;aha, precisely 1931956;1567111501;diana_coman;create extension was introduced in 9; so earlier versions will puke there. 1931957;1567111520;diana_coman;anyways, back to twisting its arms. 1931958;1567111527;lobbes;good luck 1931959;1567111546;asciilifeform;afaik trigraphic index dun exist pre-9 -- but could be wrong 1931960;1567111604;diana_coman;asciilifeform: the extension pg_trgm thingies does exist; it's the loading that is different 1931961;1567111608;asciilifeform;a. 1931962;1567111667;*;asciilifeform considers 'make things go with oldest/smallest possib. spittoon' a Right Thing in general case 1931963;1567111702;asciilifeform;i simply used the item that was known to work solidly w/ phuctor, when wrote the logger, was all. 1931964;1567112231;*;asciilifeform meanwhile puzzles over where the fuck weldable m3 nuts are to be had 1931965;1567112347;lobbes;man, while it was a learning curve at first, I'm loving Gentoo now. Making my x86 system on this server to work like my x86 cuntoo testbed is as simple as just copying over my USE flags and package masks 1931966;1567112783;lobbes;well maybe not THAT simple. But it is nice to be able to look in my masks and remember "oh yeah, I gotta remember to pick PYTHON target = 2.7" for e.g. 1931967;1567113543;asciilifeform;lobbes: yours is a traditional gentoo? or a trinqueian cuntoo ? 1931968;1567113610;asciilifeform;cuz my trad gentoo boxen are all in condition where [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-06-23#1919704][portage is no longer usable] 1931969;1567113610;snsabot;Logged on 2019-06-23 17:34:06 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-23#1919680 << fwiw asciilifeform has not used 'portage' in year+ -- the heathen portage finally 100% broke then. ( 'updated' on the gentooist end, so that no longer agrees to build ~anything~ without 'new profile', and won't install 'new profile' because hard-contravenes asciilifeform's poetteringisms ban list... ) 1931970;1567113711;lobbes;asciilifeform: my testbed box is a trinqueian cuntoo (see: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/) 1931971;1567113716;asciilifeform;a! 1931972;1567113716;lobbes;but server is a traditional gentoo 1931973;1567113831;asciilifeform;these will sorta work (if you make absolutely sure not to emerge --sync, EVER) ~until~ you find that some package is no longer alive on the (quite wilted) mirrors 1931974;1567113865;diana_coman;ahahaha, python 2.6 -> barf http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZzZjn/?raw=true 1931975;1567113867;asciilifeform;then -- yer gentoo has turned into equiv. of hand-sewn buildroot linux, where sure you can install things, but nao gotta manually tar ... ./configure && make && make install etc 1931976;1567113885;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 2.6 has diff print() syntax from 2.7 1931977;1567113895;diana_coman;if it's only that... 1931978;1567113899;asciilifeform;afaik only 1931979;1567113914;diana_coman;that flask thing gives me the hives 1931980;1567113916;asciilifeform;diana_coman: where didja get a box with 2.6 even 1931981;1567113951;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 'flask' is the http shitting lib. i've used same 1 since 2013 (phuctor) 1931982;1567113960;diana_coman;centos 6; because gentoo problem as you just described + the poor moldavian guys anyway pretty much @kukuruz 1931983;1567114003;asciilifeform;all of asciilifeform's published pythonisms are tested under 2.7. ( some ~may~ work on older; generally none will ever work on 3+ ) 1931984;1567114066;asciilifeform;( there's quite a few, turns out; e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-03-12#1626258 . all 2.7 ) 1931985;1567114067;snsabot;Logged on 2017-03-12 14:40:14 Framedragger: asciilifeform: OT and just grammar nitpicking, but in http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sage_pill.py line 22, s/Could connect/Could not connect/ 1931986;1567114115;asciilifeform;to make life even more 'interesting', there aint a magical version that can pick and 'will work on all of'em' . 2.6isms break on 2.7 just same. 1931987;1567114230;diana_coman;ah, yes, I'm sure 2.6ism would break 2.7, it's more this "fun" of code reuse; and I can ofc install python 2.7 on top; I seriously wonder though what's really the fastest route; because also, above it doesn't even seem to be print, it barfs when importing flask, a few layers deep in werkzeug and whatever 1931988;1567114251;asciilifeform;no one yet asked how asciilifeform ended up on 2.7. answr: it's where gentoo stopped when died and i put it in waxworks. 1931989;1567114344;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if you decide to fiddle with the proggy so it goes on 2.6, prolly can be done ; but keep in mind that i will not be able to run yours anywhere, there's no 2.6 on any known gentoo of past decade or so. 1931990;1567114402;asciilifeform;this 'joy' is what one gets from a lang w/out paper standard a la ada. 1931991;1567114425;asciilifeform;( tho even gnat deviates from the paper, in several already discovered cases, sadly ) 1931992;1567114439;diana_coman;well yes, I'd rather ditch python alltogether. 1931993;1567114453;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if you (or anyone) rewrite the logger -- i'ma clap 1931994;1567114499;asciilifeform;i made it 'low tech' to the point of people tearing out their hair from missing features, but result is that it is small enuff that could rewrite . 1931995;1567114583;asciilifeform;ftr i was half-convinced that it won't even run outside of asciilifeform's test beds -- until lobbes replicated 1931996;1567114591;diana_coman;asciilifeform: the main q is: in wtf exactly 1931997;1567114608;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if i had a palatable answer -- would have written in ~that~, lol 1931998;1567114621;*;asciilifeform wrote in py script 'not from a good life'(tm) 1931999;1567114642;diana_coman;myeah; in case it's not clear - none of the above was a complaint re asciilifeform's work at all. 1932000;1567114684;asciilifeform;diana_coman: rly it oughta be in tmsr-adalisp (tm)(r) but this apparently dun exist yet. 1932001;1567114703;asciilifeform;( recall thread, where 'simple script lang where can sockets etc' ) 1932002;1567114782;asciilifeform;when i 1st sat down to write it, thought 'ada', then realized that simply to make the necessary glue would take a year, and that's if did nuffin else. 1932003;1567114872;asciilifeform;then thought 'cl', then noticed that will need 9000 unexplored (by asciilifeform) lib liquishits for pg, http, etc.; then 'fuck it, i'ma cut up phuctor and sew from its still-twitching living pieces' 1932004;1567114893;asciilifeform;result was the item nao running. 1932005;1567114952;diana_coman;asciilifeform: and I think it was the best option available, yes. 1932006;1567115002;diana_coman;for clarity re python 2.6 it's quite clear that it's not worth it - all sorts of breakings in flask & co really. 1932007;1567115005;asciilifeform;i considered even [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=erlang&chan=trilema][exotics] but realized it aint happening in reasonable time frame (and fuck knows what would look like) if did so. so went like so. 1932008;1567115057;diana_coman;to cite from flask's description, for full allergy-triggers: A micro-framework for Python based on Werkzeug, Jinja 2 and good intentions 1932009;1567115069;asciilifeform;diana_coman: for 2.6 need whole set of vintage liquishits that went with that specific py 1932010;1567115077;diana_coman;I think I got a boatload of the good intentions part. 1932011;1567115130;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 'flask' , 'psycopg', etc. are erry bit as rubbish as the docs suggest. with the twist that the assemblage actually worx ( phuctor's been running, incl. under various abuses , for yrs , on same ) . 1932012;1567115183;asciilifeform;if i had to pick it up all now for 1st time, dunno if could bring myself to -- it has absolutely atrocious feel to it (esp. given the 'modern' docs) 1932013;1567115224;asciilifeform;and i'll be the 1st to burn it all when there's a realistic alternative. 1932014;1567115305;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-14#1928486][earlier thrd where mp popped the cover on these and fulled 3 buckets with barf] 1932015;1567115305;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-14 02:58:26 mp_en_viaje: Flask is a lightweight WSGI web application framework. It is designed to make getting started quick and easy, with the ability to scale up to complex applications. It began as a simple wrapper around Werkzeug and Jinja and has become one of the most popular Python web application frameworks." << really makes me want to be sober, reading that thing. 1932016;1567115364;asciilifeform;iirc lobbes actually wrote a vintage-php frontend . but bot is still py and uses same spittoon 1932017;1567115395;diana_coman;myeah, I quietly barfed in my notes re flask before but this time it just spilled in here. 1932018;1567115495;asciilifeform;saddest thing is, i'm not even certain it's more retarded than e.g. hunchentoot 1932019;1567115526;asciilifeform;( considering, it is in py , interpreted lang, and my pages are generated approx on par with speed of phf's , at the immediate shitting arse end (discounting pipe delay ) ) 1932020;1567115591;asciilifeform;worse, not even certain that it is possible to write a clean/light www shitter , considering what http , tcp , are like to begin with 1932021;1567115705;asciilifeform;( mp is fond of old php , but it suffers from 100% of same headaches , and in fact even slower , esp. if the job is even slightly moar complicated than wp ; he arrived at it same way i did at 'flask' -- picked up decade ago and 'it worx, i'ma pour cement on this' ) 1932022;1567115875;asciilifeform;imho the Right Thing for this problem domain would be a tmsr-baked script lang [http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=58][built from ground, like-this] . but so far no one has the free hands. 1932023;1567115924;asciilifeform;( would also be Right Thing for e.g. bootstrapping gnat, and related battlefield ) 1932024;1567115976;asciilifeform;i demonstrated, in 'm', how to write nontrivial proggies w/out libc or any c glue whatsoever, or any compiler dependency whatsoever. 1932025;1567115982;asciilifeform;nao all needs , is someone with hands. 1932026;1567116053;asciilifeform;the sword -- is in the stone!111 nao who wants to pull. 1932027;1567116156;asciilifeform;diana_coman: in re pythonisms -- for that matter i'm to ~this day~ ! using my orig v.py (w / phf's 'vdiff' , and your fixup patch.) also because never found in what to rewrite it. 1932028;1567116248;asciilifeform;there's imho a ~huge~ chunk of problem domain that is begging for a simple, well-specified, ~frozen~ scripting lang. 1932029;1567116265;asciilifeform;with implementation weighing a few dozen kB. 1932030;1567116305;asciilifeform;(imho entirely doable, i emulated an entire fucking comp, with mmu, uart, clock, in <13kB proggy) 1932031;1567116833;diana_coman;well, I have at least fully explored the 1-strand spittoon: psycopg2 on python 2.7 wants postgresql 9 or greater and so it goes. 1932032;1567116871;asciilifeform;diana_coman: my test bed fwiw used pg 9.4.5 . 1932033;1567116888;asciilifeform;( on dulap, where deployed -- 10.3 ) 1932034;1567116972;asciilifeform;diana_coman: you'll want a front end thing for it to live under (prolly apache) also . 1932035;1567117020;diana_coman;asciilifeform: apache so far is working, what can I say 1932036;1567117031;diana_coman;maybe that's also the "wrong" version... 1932037;1567117057;diana_coman;asciilifeform: what's the easiest coupling if they run on same machine anywya? 1932038;1567117059;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if it runs, will run, all that's asked of it is to forward a tcp pipe to port x (whichever yer py is on) 1932039;1567117086;diana_coman;ah, shall see; *if* the bot runs at all, that is. 1932040;1567117093;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i at one pt blamed that coupling for the slow, and measured (plain rev.proxy vs 'wsgi' (equiv of php's fastcgi) , found 0 diff 1932041;1567117112;asciilifeform;diana_coman: bot is own program and doesn't have any deps (aside from py per se and psycopg) 1932042;1567117115;diana_coman;aha, initially I though it required wsgi 1932043;1567117130;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i never posted that variant, imho it is useless moving part 1932044;1567117188;diana_coman;well, and postgres 1932045;1567117194;asciilifeform;the log viewer represented in the [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3452][vtree] simply serves itself on given local port when it runs. which you can then fwd to wherever. 1932046;1567117206;asciilifeform;diana_coman: naturally and postgres. i was speaking of the py glues. 1932047;1567117285;asciilifeform;to be utterly pedantic : the log sys consists of 2 separate py proggies that share a db (normally expected on same box, but can in principle be elsewhere). bot.py and reader.py 1932048;1567117304;asciilifeform;the former sits in irc and records lines, answers cmds, etc. ; the latter serves up the httpized logism. 1932049;1567117381;asciilifeform;it is in fact possib. to use 1 w/out the other ( e.g. asciilifeform's adhoc mirrors have only reader.py ; one could sit a bot using solely bot.py and then write yer own viewer at leisure ; and so on ) 1932050;1567118363;asciilifeform;the only knob in bot that actually gives a shit re the reader is the search knob ( see where it expects to find the # of results ) . 1932051;1567118427;asciilifeform;if running bot w/out a public www viewer, it prolly has no business answering commands in chan anyway 1932052;1567119158;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1932053;1567123098;diana_coman;asciilifeform: mind giving the exact versions for flask, werkzeug and whatever other shit is used in there? 1932054;1567123169;diana_coman;I have python 2.7.16 flask 1.1.1 and werkzeug 0.15.5 from what I see and the reader.py fails complaining that there is no flask.ext.cache , which seems to be again some version-shenanigans 1932055;1567123184;diana_coman;postgresql is 9.6 1932056;1567123356;diana_coman;the full list of stuff pulled in by flask seems to be: flask Werkzeug itsdangerous Jinja2 MarkupSafe 1932057;1567123595;asciilifeform;diana_coman: on testbed , print flask.__version__ >> 0.10.1 ; python --version >> 2.7.5 ; 1932058;1567123610;asciilifeform;the cache thing is unused, as lobbes pointed out 2wks ago, you can safely comment it out 1932059;1567123617;asciilifeform;( this will go into next patch ) 1932060;1567123637;diana_coman;asciilifeform: thanks; and yes, the .ext.cache trouble seems to be re v 0. or 1., ugh 1932061;1567123646;asciilifeform;print werkzeug.__version__ >> 0.9.4 1932062;1567123667;asciilifeform;psycopg2's is 2.6.1 1932063;1567123679;asciilifeform;i think that covers all the crapolade 1932064;1567123680;diana_coman;well, by now it seems to me that either ALL match, or otherwise headache; and I suspect that at the next level it's simply either same repo/distro or won't match 1932065;1567123709;asciilifeform;lobbes didja have similar horror when baking yours ? 1932066;1567123771;diana_coman;he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though 1932067;1567123779;asciilifeform;diana_coman i'm curious how you went about installing the libs on yours 1932068;1567123791;asciilifeform;what does 'centos' have ? 'yum' ? 1932069;1567123799;asciilifeform;or didja by hand 1932070;1567123825;diana_coman;asciilifeform: yum, yes 1932071;1567123842;diana_coman;but anyway by now my notes are a full novel 1932072;1567123847;asciilifeform;gentoo has , in any given instance, fuckknowswhat, BUT at least reliably pulls down the particular necessary strand of the spittoon, typically 1932073;1567123852;diana_coman;because of 2.7 etc 1932074;1567123853;asciilifeform;i.e. a working x+y+z 1932075;1567123888;asciilifeform;i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was 1932076;1567123902;diana_coman;there is pip and some easy_install 1932077;1567123920;asciilifeform;this is pretty much the last thing i'd be recommending to people to do, save for the fact that i shat out a log sys in it, lol 1932078;1567123958;diana_coman;as usual, there's no lack of "tools", lolz; only none does anything other than eating up more time, ofc. 1932079;1567123988;asciilifeform;verily 1932080;1567124175;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i vaguely suspect that this is the thing that discouraged past folx who made loggers, from genesising. 'dafuq is the point, likely no one can even replicate this' 1932081;1567124330;asciilifeform;even when i was sewing 'pehbot' , out of ben & trinque's cl logbot, found that it took substantial effort to get the req'd cl libs onto the box 1932082;1567124339;asciilifeform;( and that's a box already, years ago, set up for clism... ) 1932083;1567124366;diana_coman;asciilifeform: so then what, I'm still better off writing the bot in C or what? 1932084;1567124433;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'ma jump with a parachute made of garbage bags before writing www-facing proggy in c, but maybe that's just me.. 1932085;1567124488;diana_coman;well yes but it's starting to sound even appealing here, lolz 1932086;1567124727;asciilifeform;well if you feel like sweating out 3 kilometres of malloc() and realloc()'s and errno()'s -- who am i to say 1932087;1567124732;diana_coman;given this, I seriously wonder if it can be much worse to make it in ada on top of all the gnat-mess including unbounded strings and gnat.sockets and everything else; at least the full gnat so far *is* more transferable 1932088;1567124777;asciilifeform;diana_coman: you'd need to bake pg glue for ada, there aint any 1932089;1567124798;asciilifeform;( and it'd in turn have to use pg's c ffi, afaik there's no other usable glue for it at all ) 1932090;1567124804;asciilifeform;i.e. nulltermed strings & all. 1932091;1567124842;asciilifeform;( and then face the q : ~which~ pg !? ) 1932092;1567124898;diana_coman;I'll go and sleep. 1932093;1567124901;asciilifeform;and then you might find, as i did, that gnat.sockets mysteriously barfs in certain cases 1932094;1567124905;asciilifeform;goodnight diana_coman 1932095;1567125243;asciilifeform;thinking about it, i'm not terribly surprised that centos 6 dun suck down a working set of shitlibs: loox like it was released in jul 2011 . 1932096;1567125420;asciilifeform;imho instead of rewriting logger for 11th time out of matchsticks and hot glue, would be better to make a proper scripting lang... 1932097;1567125438;asciilifeform;1 that knows how to pg, socketize, etc. 1932098;1567125571;asciilifeform;atm i have a distinct unpleasant feeling that the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930262][ratchet] presently does not ratchet very well. 1932099;1567125571;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 04:51:18 mircea_popescu: it's this device that transforms inca (circular motion) into republic (linear motion) by the principle of only permitting rotary motion in one direction, thereby using the inca mass against itself. 1932100;1567125603;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in lulzy spam disclosures: US Office of Foreign Asset Control http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GLllJ/?raw=true 1932101;1567125624;asciilifeform;lol nigerian office of yandex spam 1932102;1567125847;BingoBoingo;4 real, Also Argentina is now officially in "selective default" after the latest round of Derpities announced trying to keep hell from breaking loose before October 27th. 1932103;1567125914;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the chinese can show up with the slave galleons and start loadin' whenever they feel like. ( and it is a deep enigma, far above asciilifeform's paygrade, to explain wtf they're waiting for ) 1932104;1567125995;asciilifeform;their 'wait for his corpse to float by'(tm) school of thought, is more impenetrable imho than their hieroglyphs. 1932105;1567125996;BingoBoingo;Well, probably waiting for local labor prices to drop enough to outsource the spear work to the Paraguayo immigrant population. 1932106;1567126036;BingoBoingo;I suspect Mandarin is not a language in the mundane sense. 1932107;1567126092;asciilifeform;i suspect (based solely on 'rectal oracle') that argentina to chinese plays same role as 'junk mortgage' house plays to usg ministry of handout-payola . 1932108;1567126118;asciilifeform;i.e. somehow is worth to'em to continue pretense that owning it is worth sumthing. 1932109;1567126193;asciilifeform;( or, alternative rewrite of same equation, that the resourced to clean up the gangrenous pus from puncturing the bezzle, aint available ) 1932110;1567126200;asciilifeform;*resources 1932111;1567126238;asciilifeform;so will go unpunctured until reaches whatever physical limit exists for it. 1932112;1567126284;asciilifeform;argentina aint even peculiar in this respect, exactly same q can be asked re usa & the rest of reich 1932113;1567126358;asciilifeform;they already went through... 2 ? 3 ? 'default' 'refinance' 'rinse & repeat' cycles ? 1932114;1567126379;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: China doesn't even particularly like Argentina. The Argentine Navy shoots at their fishing boats. 1932115;1567126425;asciilifeform;not required hypothesis -- lafondistani monkey also shoots at usg bureaucrat if happens to get in range 1932116;1567126427;BingoBoingo;I don't see a situation where the Chicoms step in to save Argentina. Argentina isn't rich in natural resources like Vzla. 1932117;1567126436;asciilifeform;dun keep the latter from printing moneys to hand to the former 1932118;1567126457;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: my suspicion is that it (like in fact usa) is a 'paper resource' 1932119;1567126482;asciilifeform;'worth' strictly on acct of having money flushed into it 1932120;1567126507;asciilifeform;( and then idjits noticing 'someone paid for this! it must be worth sumthing' ) 1932121;1567126531;asciilifeform;mp had a likbez where used example of recent pyramid 'groupon', where similar. 1932122;1567126557;BingoBoingo;No one depends on the strength of Argentine paper holding to prop up anything. Even Uruguay has adopted a strict decoupling from Argentina so as to not sink with them. 1932123;1567126571;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: not argentine paper, lol. chinese paper. 1932124;1567126602;asciilifeform;they almost certainly have an internal bezzle that considers the sank moneys as 'asset' of some sort. 1932125;1567126701;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: picture if you had a herd of worm-ridden cows that produced 0 milk, and meat that no one would eat even in gulag. how to make any money from them ? one way is to keep feeding'em and 'financialize' them, borrow against'em from idiots, 'leverage', etc 1932126;1567126710;BingoBoingo;The blackboard rate today hit 0.38/0.98 compra/venta. Part of this is intentional monetary policy re: "fuck Argentina", but there being less distance between zero and compra than compra and venta is a fairly new phenomenon. 1932127;1567126771;asciilifeform;waitasec, so, what , BingoBoingo could walk in, buy 0.38, sell for 0.98 immediately, and come out with a wad of phree green ? 1932128;1567126801;asciilifeform;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2017-06-08#1667417][or is this only for 'speshul' people] ? 1932129;1567126801;snsabot;Logged on 2017-06-08 13:09:01 a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet. 1932130;1567126865;asciilifeform;or do i misread the #s somehow 1932131;1567126871;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The cambios buy per 0.38, sell for 0.98. Very infrequent the blackboard rate is used with Argentine pesos, usually cambios offer better rates on pesos Argentinos for all but trivial volumes. 1932132;1567126877;asciilifeform;aa! 1932133;1567126881;BingoBoingo;Other direction 1932134;1567126909;asciilifeform;ook cuz otherwise wtf 1932135;1567126943;BingoBoingo;The wide blackboard spread is because no one wants to sit on pesos argentinas 1932136;1567127059;asciilifeform;if owner of argentina wants someone to buy it, could start whenever he wants by sending in the wood chippers and mulching the 'samba si, trabajo no' aboriginals 24/7 until leaves the 2% or what who were the reasonable auto mechanics etc . 1932137;1567127125;asciilifeform;as it is, hot waste from chernobyl is actually moar marketable ( there are actual uses for e.g. co-60 ) 1932138;1567127143;BingoBoingo;Indeedd 1932139;1567127151;BingoBoingo;Cobalt 60 has many uses. 1932140;1567127162;asciilifeform;pretty expensive, too, interestingly -- i priced 1932141;1567127166;BingoBoingo;A labor movement that wants the factories to leave has no use. 1932142;1567127298;asciilifeform;i doubt ( and esp. after mp barfed ) that anyone would buy live argentines at any price point . it's like trying to sell sewer rats. normally you gotta ~pay~ someone to trap & remove these. 1932143;1567127388;asciilifeform;perhaps brazil will buy the place, for nuke waste dump. 1932144;1567127406;trinque;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931886 << didn't, and I'm a little hesitant to continue on in that vein before making sure I know what the desirable product is. 1932145;1567127407;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 15:27:44 asciilifeform: !Q later tell trinque didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ? 1932146;1567127407;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 6 hours and 25 minutes ago: didja ever post a arm64 cuntoo ? 1932147;1567127429;BingoBoingo;Why would Brasil buy? Argentina doing what Argentina does is part of Brasil's sales pitch. 1932148;1567127429;trinque;huh, that's sort of annying behavior. 1932149;1567127430;asciilifeform;trinque: well i'm about to sew together a 15 unit arm64 cluster. 1932150;1567127447;asciilifeform;trinque: hm ? 1932151;1567127455;trinque;lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead 1932152;1567127511;trinque;asciilifeform: I mean whether cuntoo is desirable as is. 1932153;1567127530;asciilifeform;trinque: is there a substantial missing piece i'm unaware of ? 1932154;1567127532;trinque;trying to learn in my old age to take half a smell of the market before hauling off and building something 1932155;1567127539;asciilifeform;afaik it's entirely workable atm 1932156;1567127559;asciilifeform;and certainly in comparison to asciilifeform's fossilized gentoo currently in use 1932157;1567127566;trinque;kk 1932158;1567127631;trinque;possible avenue of porting is to stand up an amd64 cuntoo, and then use crossdev to rebuild all ebuilds at a specified root dir 1932159;1567127638;trinque;looking for what the env variable is 1932160;1567127674;asciilifeform;CFLAGS="-march=aarch64" i expect 1932161;1567127692;trinque;nah, the one where you can tell portage to blast its built-proggie output to a new root 1932162;1567127706;trinque;I've used this to great benefit to blap down an embedded firmware 1932163;1567127732;*;asciilifeform only ever built embeddeds (e.g. for 'm', for 'pogo', etc) via 'buildroot', never made a gentoo for'em 1932164;1567127791;asciilifeform;i was orig. planning to attempt a cuntoo for 'm' but then barfed 1932165;1567127840;asciilifeform;( it, despite month+ of pure asm massage -- found to be incurably slow ) 1932166;1567127919;asciilifeform;is actually why new rk plant -- will be sold to folx using conventional www stack etc, traditional softs, even trinque's vpnism idea, and the like. 1932167;1567127935;trinque;ah it's just ROOT 1932168;1567127976;asciilifeform;trinque do you want a rk btw ? i have some spares here, can send you 1932169;1567127993;*;trinque will pick up his own, but thanks very much! 1932170;1567127998;asciilifeform;aite 1932171;1567128013;asciilifeform;get'em while they're alive. last time for 6mo i was convinced it was outta print permanently 1932172;1567128018;trinque;link to the exact model? and I'll stand up my crossdev stack for it 1932173;1567128021;trinque;and document 1932174;1567128027;asciilifeform;roc-rk3328-cc . 1932175;1567128031;trinque;aye aye 1932176;1567128041;asciilifeform;comes in 3 sizes (1G, 2G, 4G) 1932177;1567128065;asciilifeform;no storages on pcb (is major reason why i picked it) , needs sd to boot from and then usb3 stick to mount root 1932178;1567128102;asciilifeform;[http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295][for thread-completeness, asciilifeform's fillings for this machine.] 1932179;1567128132;asciilifeform;a++ trinque , if you bake this, will be much appreciated . 1932180;1567128156;trinque;cool, got a big'n and small otw, arrives tomorrow 1932181;1567128165;asciilifeform;dun fughet the heat sink 1932182;1567128173;asciilifeform;it runs rather hot when 'naked' 1932183;1567128235;trinque;cool, got also 1932184;1567128262;asciilifeform;the vendor's heat sink is pretty spartan, but worx, and snaps in with bare hands, convenient. 1932185;1567129306;asciilifeform;trinque: ave1 even made a working gnat, but it doesn't know how to do preemtible threads. 1932186;1567129322;asciilifeform;(apparently this was never yet achieved on arm64) 1932187;1567129395;*;asciilifeform fwiw suspects that most ada proggies dun even use preemptible threads -- they spawn N threads and they run until the warhead detonates.. 1932188;1567129437;asciilifeform;e.g. ffa/peh dun use threads at all. 1932189;1567130872;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932021 << indeed, testbed on trinquean cuntoo. Yeah, did not encounter same horrors (besides the need for commenting out the cache thing) 1932190;1567130872;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 20:52:37 diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though 1932191;1567130878;lobbes;For clarity, on testbed I got the eater.py and the reader.py working fine. Was able to view loglines and search with no issue (on localhost only, didn't test port forwarding). Did *not* test the bot.py, however. For reference, my version info: Flask 0.12.2; psycopg2 2.7.4; Python 2.7.15 1932192;1567130899;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932030 << on the testbed I got both flask and psycopg2 via portage 1932193;1567130900;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 20:54:34 asciilifeform: i recall lobbes was using some kinda system for sucking down py libs that worked through the deps chain, but can't recall what was 1932194;1567131035;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931971 << not yet; I have a vintage php search for the [http://logs.minigame.biz/search/?q=][classic #e logs], but that is all atm 1932195;1567131035;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:32:30 asciilifeform: iirc lobbes actually wrote a vintage-php frontend . but bot is still py and uses same spittoon 1932196;1567131244;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932106 << I agree this is probably the proper behavior. But it ain't changing anytime soon. The heathen coad lobbesbot runs on [i.e. it doesn't sit on the logbot tree like auctionbot] is slated to be discontinued just as soon as I get some more important things complete. Not sinking any more time trying to staple that dead horse 1932197;1567131245;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:54:01 trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead 1932198;1567131517;trinque;fair enough 1932199;1567149823;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931973 <-- most likely same level. ftr, I'ma attempt to apply mircea_popescu's [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930328][pill] of stealing everything related, up to and including sbcl, which hopefully should make it easier to reproduce items written on top of it. 1932200;1567149824;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:34:40 asciilifeform: saddest thing is, i'm not even certain it's more retarded than e.g. hunchentoot 1932201;1567149824;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-23 05:47:14 mircea_popescu: this understanding is current as of cca 2016. meanwhile we agreed that because a) it is preferrable to work with republican rather than imperial items and to prevent more imperial seepage than needed ; and because b) there's no limit to signature count as per long standing observations and discussions (with a very early asciilifeform cca 2013 maybe) then therefore the correct approach is to sign things early, t 1932202;1567149870;spyked;problem remains one of bootstrapping: iirc sbcl requires a working lisp in order to be built. 1932203;1567149955;spyked;and the only *quick* solution that I can think of here is signing the binturd that I've been using for the last few years; if anyone has a better idea, pl0x to chime in 1932204;1567150179;spyked;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931955 <-- recall, /me already wrote a [http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/075-adalisp-prototype-ii.html][toy prototype] as his introduction to ada. other than the fact that it looks noobish and requires work to integrate with the c-isms, writing logger on top of it would also require something along the lines of a. mod_adalisp and b. handling other wwwistic s 1932205;1567150180;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:21:10 asciilifeform: diana_coman: rly it oughta be in tmsr-adalisp (tm)(r) but this apparently dun exist yet. 1932206;1567150185;spyked;tuff, which I suspect would make the result no different than either flask or hunchentoot 1932207;1567150604;spyked;re. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931011 <-- /me has been thinking a bit about this after reading the discussion, and it occurs to me that one of the reasons that might keep people from signing items is that there's no way to "unsign" them. nor that is desirable imho, but "what if" some sign piece of coad turns out to burn your house to the ground. in any case, this reveals to me the ( 1932208;1567150604;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 13:25:11 diana_coman: but it's a more difficult thing to catch as it were: as above, it's unclear if "no signature" is a sign of "seeking to hide imperfection" or of "no read" or wtf already 1932209;1567150610;spyked;perhaps obvious) fact that the signature says something about the signatory *at the time* when he/she has signed, not necessarily at the time that I'm using the object in question. 1932210;1567150675;spyked;grrr... *is that, *some signed piece 1932211;1567150683;*;spyked needs to wake up; bbl, tea 1932212;1567154287;diana_coman;spyked: there's no way to undo what one did, yes; make amends maybe, undo no. 1932213;1567154714;diana_coman;re logger atm I am undecided as my options so far seem to be: 1. do another round of madness with flask until it works on this old (but stable at least) centos 2. replicate environment aka burn down centos and have fun installing remotely on the machine cuntoo 3. simply run irssi (as I'm otherwise running this code anyway as my client) with logging to db into an mp-wp database and be done with it (possibly each line a one comment - will end 1932214;1567154726;diana_coman;ofc there's alway 4. give up on it at this time 1932215;1567154822;diana_coman;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932144 - do you mean cuntoo or what exactly? 1932216;1567154822;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 22:50:59 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932021 << indeed, testbed on trinquean cuntoo. Yeah, did not encounter same horrors (besides the need for commenting out the cache thing) 1932217;1567156572;spyked;diana_coman, yeah, well I suppose that's another reason why the manifest mechanism is useful: if I signed a patch P at t1, and later I found out that it does something stupid or subtly malicious or whatever; then at t2 I can sign the "inverse" to P and give context to that signature in the manifest (whoever tries to press that has to know why particularly I made some change) 1932218;1567158644;mp_en_viaje;hi all from the comfortable insides of florimund, my european mobile mping station. 1932219;1567158654;mp_en_viaje;anyone wanna guess the make ? 1932220;1567158743;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931877 << take it eays 1932221;1567158743;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 13:10:29 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm working on organizing a break down of the situation. It's a very map-heavy exercise 1932222;1567158831;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931885 << pretty cool 1932223;1567158832;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 15:26:21 asciilifeform: will post photo 'porn' when assembled, for aficionados. 1932224;1567159460;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931937 << keks. you should see the poor romanian guys of sibiu. pretense to cntrary notwithstanding, @sameplace. 1932225;1567159460;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:09:05 diana_coman: centos 6; because gentoo problem as you just described + the poor moldavian guys anyway pretty much @kukuruz 1932226;1567159725;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931963 << pretty sure this was in the og alread, lolz. poor guy, wth is h to do. gotta use somethign 1932227;1567159726;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:27:23 diana_coman: to cite from flask's description, for full allergy-triggers: A micro-framework for Python based on Werkzeug, Jinja 2 and good intentions 1932228;1567159832;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931973 << well, spyked's been working on answering this q, im following along. 1932229;1567159832;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:34:40 asciilifeform: saddest thing is, i'm not even certain it's more retarded than e.g. hunchentoot 1932230;1567159989;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931976 << precisely. part of trilema process. 1932231;1567159990;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:38:11 asciilifeform: ( mp is fond of old php , but it suffers from 100% of same headaches , and in fact even slower , esp. if the job is even slightly moar complicated than wp ; he arrived at it same way i did at 'flask' -- picked up decade ago and 'it worx, i'ma pour cement on this' ) 1932232;1567160181;mp_en_viaje;trying to maybe gwt out of it, hence [http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/][the work] to spec "blog" in the abstract ; but mp-wp stack works for trilema TODAY ; i ain't taking a break from publishing untul "better world". god knows the week long #trilema outage was long enough. 1932233;1567160269;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931978 << pretty much thast was the idea yeah. iirc we even discussed tcl in ancient thread re this same matter 1932234;1567160269;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:41:50 asciilifeform: ( would also be Right Thing for e.g. bootstrapping gnat, and related battlefield ) 1932235;1567160576;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932021 << she has a point i nthat "version numbers" are utterly meaningless (which is why one's 2 something, the other 0 sometiing, yet used in same pile). all that matters is vintage, like in wines, DOC for code. 1932236;1567160577;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 20:52:37 diana_coman: he's on gentoo so it should be more similar to your env/packages/versions though 1932237;1567160603;mp_en_viaje;you can build ok from gentoo work if in there, but it won't work in centos world and vice0versa, "version number" irrespective. 1932238;1567160632;mp_en_viaje;much like ye olde red army tanks worked if parta made by same factory not of same kind 1932239;1567160658;mp_en_viaje;esltatrds managed to reimplement mirvniki farming-powered parochial worlview. 1932240;1567160863;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932035 << possibly the case indeed ; but we gotta start actually documenting it with a view to ever fixing it, there's no way the fuck out alresfy. 1932241;1567160864;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 20:59:22 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i vaguely suspect that this is the thing that discouraged past folx who made loggers, from genesising. 'dafuq is the point, likely no one can even replicate this' 1932242;1567161049;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932038 << not better ; just, different set of "tools". some people have preferences as to th exact manner of timewasting. 1932243;1567161049;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:02:32 diana_coman: asciilifeform: so then what, I'm still better off writing the bot in C or what? 1932244;1567161055;mp_en_viaje;but yes, that you'll be sinking in more of your time than it's worth, you know that going in. "modern computing paradigm". 1932245;1567161502;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932041 << i'm sure there's a library/tool for this/that. 1932246;1567161502;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:08:33 asciilifeform: well if you feel like sweating out 3 kilometres of malloc() and realloc()'s and errno()'s -- who am i to say 1932247;1567161506;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932043 << as far as we know this is probably needed in the general. 1932248;1567161507;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:09:24 asciilifeform: diana_coman: you'd need to bake pg glue for ada, there aint any 1932249;1567161544;mp_en_viaje;ftr, this is fucking beautiful, going towards balea on 7c while reading logs. 1932250;1567161571;mp_en_viaje;i was here many times before (though not in the past... well, 20 or so yeaes) but i never knew this is what i wanted to make it complete! 1932251;1567162386;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932053 << better than no ratcher but indeed not yet better by much 1932252;1567162387;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:22:37 asciilifeform: atm i have a distinct unpleasant feeling that the [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-23#1930262][ratchet] presently does not ratchet very well. 1932253;1567162502;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932058 << apparently nobody wants argentiens for any purpose. i can imagine why not. 1932254;1567162503;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:28:21 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the chinese can show up with the slave galleons and start loadin' whenever they feel like. ( and it is a deep enigma, far above asciilifeform's paygrade, to explain wtf they're waiting for ) 1932255;1567163148;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932060 << certainly how the tutsi massacre thing worked irl. 1932256;1567163149;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:29:43 BingoBoingo: Well, probably waiting for local labor prices to drop enough to outsource the spear work to the Paraguayo immigrant population. 1932257;1567163552;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932069 << but never within 10 miles or so. 1932258;1567163553;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:36:05 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: China doesn't even particularly like Argentina. The Argentine Navy shoots at their fishing boats. 1932259;1567163561;mp_en_viaje;it's mostly argentine wank, like "messi" 1932260;1567165714;mp_en_viaje;~most commodity classes are more monetized than new cars, which is universally what the argentines do : they also make heaters that [http://trilema.com/2016/industria-argentina-or-my-life-among-the-tribal-savages/][are worse heaters] than scrap wire. and [http://trilema.com/2016/the-worlds-most-contortedly-idiotic-computer-case-in-pictures/][worse coputer cases] than tree trunks and so on. 1932261;1567165731;mp_en_viaje;whoopsy, lost coverage there a second crossing the transfagarasan 1932262;1567165884;mp_en_viaje;anyway, point being argentine is ~equiv [http://trilema.com/2017/hela-matter/][innocent black youth] : pure entropic process, exactly like yeast fermentation. "industry" pointed misnomer for the activity. 1932263;1567166982;diana_coman;apparently transfagarasan not that well covered, lol 1932264;1567169985;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932170 << I mean cuntoo exactly. [http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/][testbed is the exact iron in this post] 1932265;1567169986;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 05:30:10 diana_coman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932144 - do you mean cuntoo or what exactly? 1932266;1567170632;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932174 << VW type 2, recently taken out of cosmoline pit? 1932267;1567170632;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 06:34:02 mp_en_viaje: anyone wanna guess the make ? 1932268;1567173128;BingoBoingo;I'm thinking something like http://trilema.com/2016/the-tatu-party-bus-and-other-wasps/ but clean 1932269;1567174866;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/08/prorogation-queen-to-suspend-parliament-after-apparently-tiring-of-exit-free-brexit/ << Qntra -- PROROGATION: Queen To Suspend Parliament After Apparently Tiring Of Exit Free Brexit 1932270;1567175545;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932158 << this is more or less what was done with orig. gnat. but eventually will have to be solved properly (i.e. 'here's an asm thing for $machine, with which in turn can build x...') 1932271;1567175545;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 04:09:03 spyked: and the only *quick* solution that I can think of here is signing the binturd that I've been using for the last few years; if anyone has a better idea, pl0x to chime in 1932272;1567175626;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932159 << mod_xyz is only really needed with ancient horrors like php, which otherwise sink 1e9 cpu cycles on revving up the interpreter with ~each~ www req. for items that serve themselves up on a port, dun need mod_xyz, can simply fwd port 1932273;1567175626;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 04:12:47 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931955 <-- recall, /me already wrote a [http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/075-adalisp-prototype-ii.html][toy prototype] as his introduction to ada. other than the fact that it looks noobish and requires work to integrate with the c-isms, writing logger on top of it would also require something along the lines of a. mod_adalisp and b. handling other wwwistic s 1932274;1567175681;diana_coman;hm, in better & unexpected news, a fresh last-ditch try seems to possibly work - with precisely flask as lobbes's (http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932146) 1932275;1567175681;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 22:51:04 lobbes: For clarity, on testbed I got the eater.py and the reader.py working fine. Was able to view loglines and search with no issue (on localhost only, didn't test port forwarding). Did *not* test the bot.py, however. For reference, my version info: Flask 0.12.2; psycopg2 2.7.4; Python 2.7.15 1932276;1567175688;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932162 << there of course is no such thing as 'unsign'. next best thing is 'antipatch', i.e. where you fix the errata. and imho all signatures oughta include human-readable annotation 1932277;1567175689;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 04:19:52 spyked: re. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931011 <-- /me has been thinking a bit about this after reading the discussion, and it occurs to me that one of the reasons that might keep people from signing items is that there's no way to "unsign" them. nor that is desirable imho, but "what if" some sign piece of coad turns out to burn your house to the ground. in any case, this reveals to me the ( 1932278;1567175696;asciilifeform;oh hey diana_coman , worx ? 1932279;1567175714;diana_coman;i.e. so far I could at least actually run the reader and it's waiting; ran the eater on my own ossasepia deeded logs and it ate 1932280;1567175731;diana_coman;asciilifeform: what's the incantation to do with apache to check now? 1932281;1567176084;asciilifeform;diana_coman: mine's on nginx. but something like [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sK3qp/?raw=true][this] oughta work 1932282;1567176119;diana_coman;will try! thank you asciilifeform 1932283;1567176130;diana_coman;and ofc I need to see if the *bot* also works, lolz 1932284;1567176164;asciilifeform;[http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/K5n1n/?raw=true][nginx conf], for anyone interested. 1932285;1567176182;asciilifeform;diana_coman: dun fughet to set up the config knobs (per readme) 1932286;1567176200;asciilifeform;if you get something other than a working www & bot, turn on the debug knobs. 1932287;1567176255;diana_coman;asciilifeform: the config knobs were set (easy part!!) 1932288;1567176321;asciilifeform;if debugs are off, thing is pretty quiet in re log. (to avoid filling disk with kilometres of crapola in normal operation) 1932289;1567176371;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i tested the bot by setting chan to e.g. #asciilifeform-test . can do similar, then you can use whatever unregged nick etc (dun fughet to set pw to empty then) 1932290;1567176393;asciilifeform;the www reader will then also display that chan, can easily test. 1932291;1567176495;asciilifeform;init the db (via the supplied script) and let reader & bot run in background . then see how behaves. 1932292;1567176548;*;asciilifeform will eat the remaining log after tea; brb 1932293;1567177444;diana_coman;ha, at least I got the bot running and joining the chan (ossasepia-test), yeee 1932294;1567177467;diana_coman;it needed one more install but anyways; nao to see about apache 1932295;1567178314;BingoBoingo;"Creo que va a venir el préstamo del FMI, pero estarán esperando el respaldo por parte de la oposición" << Argentard of apparent import in the Argentardocracy discussing pending, yet to be revealed currency exchange controls. Dude just assumes more dole fodder is on the way so long as Argentines all agree to the right ritual handwashing. 1932296;1567178420;BingoBoingo;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932212 << No, the Argentines are dumb enough to have their navy fire upon the Chinese boats fairly routinely to the point China's papers report on it http://archive.is/WzLiZ 1932297;1567178420;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 07:55:41 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932069 << but never within 10 miles or so. 1932298;1567178604;diana_coman;yeeeee, works and test-live at logs.ossasepia.com (185.163.46.29) 1932299;1567178609;diana_coman;asciilifeform: thank you! 1932300;1567178677;diana_coman;name's ossabot so can haz !o maybe? 1932301;1567178756;diana_coman;asciilifeform, BingoBoingo can I get that pizarro banner to hang in there? 1932302;1567178829;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/09d-hunchentoot-vib.html << The Tar Pit -- Hunchentoot: requests and replies [b] 1932303;1567178948;*;diana_coman looks at the pile of lisp books waiting on the shelf 1932304;1567179194;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/static/piz.jpg Here's one. I'll try to dig for where the rest of the mod6 banners are. Searching the #pizarro logs returned 404'd links 1932305;1567179273;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell mod6 the links to your pizarro banners appear to all be 404 on mod6.net, is there any way you could assemble all the banners together in a blog post or something? 1932306;1567179274;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1932307;1567179329;diana_coman;BingoBoingo: thanks! got it and it's online already. 1932308;1567179343;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: Thank you 1932309;1567179361;asciilifeform;who wants piz banner, lift from mine 1932310;1567179371;asciilifeform;it's appropriately scaled/compressed 1932311;1567179385;asciilifeform;( and if anyone want to make a moar readable one -- plz ! ) 1932312;1567179408;asciilifeform;the larger banner is on phuctor www 1932313;1567179418;asciilifeform;( in the form orig. sent in by mod6 iirc ) 1932314;1567179465;asciilifeform;diana_coman: seems to work !! 1932315;1567179518;asciilifeform;re banners , i expected that folx will want to put own , rather than use mine. ( plus there's no practical way to put any such thing in a v genesis ) so i omitted'em 1932316;1567179588;asciilifeform;diana_coman: re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia-test/2019-08-30#1000017 << you'll prolly want to swap that link for wherever you keep your personal vtree 1932317;1567179667;diana_coman;asciilifeform: indeed it does! and yes, I'll have to look into something for younghands probably but pizarro will stay there too 1932318;1567179675;asciilifeform;why ty diana_coman . 1932319;1567179708;asciilifeform;btw i have found that the banners spill the screen on some exotic browsers ( crapple's, in particular ) but did not bother yet to try and fix somehow 1932320;1567179712;diana_coman;asciilifeform: re vtree I considered it but atm the source is your blog so there it is; when I get around to wrap it up I'll sign + publish etc 1932321;1567179717;asciilifeform;worx 1932322;1567179744;diana_coman;asciilifeform: can I get a raw dump of the logs to feed the bot or how best to sync? 1932323;1567179811;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'ma cycle the dumper manually . go and load the 'raw dump link' in 30s or so. (and if anyone speaks between now and when you import it, can fill the hole with the raw export knob and eater.py ) 1932324;1567179887;diana_coman;asciilifeform: which raw dump link? the db dump you mean? 1932325;1567179902;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/static/log_db.gz 1932326;1567179909;diana_coman;aha, the db; kk 1932327;1567179912;asciilifeform;ok lemme cycle it again, lol. 30s 1932328;1567180397;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932106 << what, the later tell delivery ? 1932329;1567180397;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 21:54:01 trinque: lobbesbot, maybe it could pm instead 1932330;1567180785;mp_en_viaje;i honestly dun see the prioblem with in-chan delivery. 1932331;1567181193;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932218 << not covered at all, actually. it 1932332;1567181194;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 08:52:51 diana_coman: apparently transfagarasan not that well covered, lol 1932333;1567181222;mp_en_viaje;it;s not "just the tunnel", bout 30-40km each way, radio dead zone. 1932334;1567181251;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932221 << naah 1932335;1567181252;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 09:53:41 BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932174 << VW type 2, recently taken out of cosmoline pit? 1932336;1567181861;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932251 << yes ; but a) that's not chinese paper and b) i dunno what naval warfare this is from, but the "fired and nothing happened" seems to confirm my comment. 1932337;1567181862;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 12:03:30 BingoBoingo: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932212 << No, the Argentines are dumb enough to have their navy fire upon the Chinese boats fairly routinely to the point China's papers report on it http://archive.is/WzLiZ 1932338;1567181998;BingoBoingo;mp_en_viaje: Well, its the Argentine Navy firing in the general direction of Chinese boats. And they did sink one Chinese boat in 2016. 1932339;1567182049;mp_en_viaje;oh yeah, i recall 1932340;1567182078;BingoBoingo;The Argentines also refuse to publish any charts outlining the EEZ their Navy enforces 1932341;1567182107;mp_en_viaje;o hey, ated logs. 1932342;1567182132;mp_en_viaje;looks like an hour or so to brasov... 1932343;1567182242;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931860 << weird shit.... apparently i was looking at a stale page. sorry about that. 1932344;1567182242;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 08:58:09 trinque: various "block explorers" show that one as shipped. afaik all have. 1932345;1567182358;asciilifeform;ohai mp_en_viaje 1932346;1567182383;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931863 << not gonna name pre-whatever girlies. but no, doth not look like hanbot at all 1932347;1567182383;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 09:57:25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931848 << this character mentioned 4 or 5 times recently... but does it have a name ? ( i admit, when 1st saw picture, assumed it was a young photo-shy hanbot ) 1932348;1567182385;mp_en_viaje;heya! 1932349;1567182449;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: aa ok, wasn't hanbot. i was thinking i was merely thick. 1932350;1567182483;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932187 << loox, btw, that diana_coman has a working mirror ! so neveragain 'ooops no l0gz!', ha. 1932351;1567182483;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 06:59:30 mp_en_viaje: trying to maybe gwt out of it, hence [http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-a-blog-complete-spec-inside/][the work] to spec "blog" in the abstract ; but mp-wp stack works for trilema TODAY ; i ain't taking a break from publishing untul "better world". god knows the week long #trilema outage was long enough. 1932352;1567182491;mp_en_viaje;no, she is. 1932353;1567182574;asciilifeform;wai which is 1932354;1567182668;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932193 << it's exactly like the infamous 'ppsh' submachine gun factory, where in early models parts in fact were not interchangeable, cuz pre-selected from piles to work 'in set' 1932355;1567182668;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 07:07:00 mp_en_viaje: much like ye olde red army tanks worked if parta made by same factory not of same kind 1932356;1567182751;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932202 << ada imho is uniquely unsuited to 'munge 9000 strings' type of proggy. so not sure whether would ever want pg glue in it. any attempt to use, will be tremendously ugly 1932357;1567182751;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 07:21:35 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932043 << as far as we know this is probably needed in the general. 1932358;1567182796;mp_en_viaje;hm. 1932359;1567182817;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932188 << my objection to e.g. tcl isn't in 'martian syntax', but that it's a titanic pile of ??? in c, exactly like python, perl, et al 1932360;1567182818;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 07:00:57 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931978 << pretty much thast was the idea yeah. iirc we even discussed tcl in ancient thread re this same matter 1932361;1567182843;mp_en_viaje;aha. 1932362;1567182872;asciilifeform;( whereas what's imho needed, is [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931984][this] ) 1932363;1567182872;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-29 18:47:31 asciilifeform: with implementation weighing a few dozen kB. 1932364;1567182929;*;asciilifeform distinctly recalls a thread where asciilifeform was unable to try some heathen proggy because 'the correct' tcl would not build in his gentoo. but sadly cannot find in o(1).. 1932365;1567183141;asciilifeform;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932215 << that comp case, btw, may have been an inept clone of 1 of my current ones, where ps goes in bottom and ~intake~ fan sucks cold air through filter in the bottom panel. but the orcs did not bother evidently to think about why, and... decided to put ~hot~ end there ! 1932366;1567183142;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 08:31:43 mp_en_viaje: ~most commodity classes are more monetized than new cars, which is universally what the argentines do : they also make heaters that [http://trilema.com/2016/industria-argentina-or-my-life-among-the-tribal-savages/][are worse heaters] than scrap wire. and [http://trilema.com/2016/the-worlds-most-contortedly-idiotic-computer-case-in-pictures/][worse coputer cases] than tree trunks and so on. 1932367;1567183420;asciilifeform;ohai ossabot ! 1932368;1567183437;diana_coman;!o help 1932369;1567183445;diana_coman;ah, can't talk in here, good. 1932370;1567183452;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i think it needs a green light from mp_en_viaje 1932371;1567183461;diana_coman;I'm not sure it should talk in here 1932372;1567183476;diana_coman;it's meant to listen, not to talk, heh 1932373;1567183486;asciilifeform;diana_coman: well why not it talk when given links to own log 1932374;1567183503;asciilifeform;my bot is written such that only speaks when spoken to 1932375;1567183516;diana_coman;ah, there is the log-citing, hm. 1932376;1567183528;mp_en_viaje;i can voice it but when im back 1932377;1567183529;asciilifeform;that way we will never be without a bot which echoes when asked 1932378;1567183542;asciilifeform;ty for making mirror, diana_coman ! 1932379;1567183543;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: no hurry; is !o ok to take for ossabot? 1932380;1567183564;mp_en_viaje;pretty sure, yeah 1932381;1567183591;asciilifeform;~nao~ and only nao we finally have proper logging! 1932382;1567183644;asciilifeform;diana_coman: observe btw that the bot config allows to put ~list~ of fleanode endpoints. so it is not necessary to use the default rotation dnsism, can in fact do like mp_en_viaje does and put list of favourites 1932383;1567183671;diana_coman;I checked at http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html and !o didn't seem taken but it's not among the "next in line" either 1932384;1567183673;asciilifeform;so thereby could actually make it so that the diff bots live at any given time on diff ones 1932385;1567183694;diana_coman;not sure if there's some algo to it; my choice was so it's easy to remember/match 1932386;1567183700;asciilifeform;diana_coman: how didja fill in the lines ? /raw/ and by hand ? 1932387;1567183701;mp_en_viaje;works. 1932388;1567183710;diana_coman;asciilifeform: the gap, yes 1932389;1567183722;asciilifeform;at some pt we will have to think of a way to mechanize these. 1932390;1567183735;diana_coman;for the dump I did first a sed for botname and then restore into db 1932391;1567183741;diana_coman;but yes, it has to be automated 1932392;1567183755;asciilifeform;diana_coman: dun fughet to put bot & reader in cron, '@reboot ...' etc 1932393;1567183795;diana_coman;myeah, atm it's still in "beta" deploy, lol 1932394;1567183798;asciilifeform;!q uptime 1932395;1567183799;snsabot;asciilifeform: time since my last reconnect : 14d 3h 9m 1932396;1567183811;asciilifeform;^ i in fact have not had to spoon-feed mine yet. but nao there is from where ! if needs. 1932397;1567183995;asciilifeform;wb girlattorney 1932398;1567184007;girlattorney;hi asciilifeform 1932399;1567184022;asciilifeform;girlattorney: were you able to make your trb node ? 1932400;1567184084;girlattorney;almost, then left unsynced at 585k height, but still have the data. 1932401;1567184122;girlattorney;I have read the log for a couple of weeks then now logged in to make other questions 1932402;1567184171;asciilifeform;girlattorney: before you do, plz clarify, 'left unsynced' means it in fact sat all summer trying to sync and never did?! or switched off ? 1932403;1567184187;girlattorney;switched off 1932404;1567184191;asciilifeform;aa ok 1932405;1567184222;girlattorney;i was trying to moving it on a better colo and left everything off for a while 1932406;1567184259;asciilifeform;girlattorney: indeed these are very sensitive to quality of net pipe. 1932407;1567184304;girlattorney;i also had a nice graph made with darkstat about the peers that helped most on syncing from 0 1932408;1567184305;asciilifeform;girlattorney: i have 1 going on a residential pipe since '15, but it is a rather costly pipe 1932409;1567184311;girlattorney;then rebooted the machine and lost the stats 1932410;1567184329;asciilifeform;girlattorney: aa, so you had the 'who-gave' patch, neat. unfortunate that lost. would be very interesting to read. 1932411;1567184332;girlattorney;basically most of the juice (chunks of 50-60gb) camed from your node asciilifeform and bingo boingo 1932412;1567184356;asciilifeform;unsurprising, these afaik are the most reliable public nodes at this time. 1932413;1567184378;girlattorney;then there is also 40 gb from a romanian IP 1932414;1567184390;asciilifeform;possibly mp_en_viaje's or spyked's 1932415;1567184446;girlattorney;i still have the iotop stats, and will make a post somewhere soon with them 1932416;1567184478;asciilifeform;girlattorney: as you have found now to own satisfaction, w/out having to take asciilifeform's word for it -- the actual # of ~working~ (i.e. stores and serves the entire chain) public nodes on the net, is very very small. 1932417;1567184554;asciilifeform;most of what sits around claiming to be btc node, is really 'pressed-sawdust' simulacra. 1932418;1567184623;girlattorney;btw, after stripping out DNS on my important applications (such as TRB) my question now was about IP space assigned from IANA, could this be in the future an attack vector? 1932419;1567184723;girlattorney;in particular i'm referring about BGP hijacking and the general fact that IANA is a third party of a government, that a day could decide to limit the user freedom 1932420;1567184744;asciilifeform;girlattorney: observe that there is no attempt at authenticating peers in the existing trb. you could easily be connecting to washington's node when thinking yer connecting to e.g. mp_en_viaje's. at one time i published an experimental patch where can route to people you personally know via ssh pipes, but currently not in use anywhere afaik. 1932421;1567184793;asciilifeform;girlattorney: bitcoin net presently ~worx simply because 'impossible to fool ~all~ of the people ~all~ of the time'(tm)(r) via ip hijinks 1932422;1567184817;girlattorney;fair enough 1932423;1567184818;asciilifeform;can 'fool ~some~ of the people ~some~ of the time' indeed 1932424;1567184908;asciilifeform;the more properly working trb nodes there are -- the less payoff to anyone for monkeying with their connectivity. at present in fact i do not know how many there are. not erryone bothers to advertise . 1932425;1567184920;asciilifeform;and if running with default config they are invisible to the heathen 'node list' www's. 1932426;1567184967;girlattorney;so as long as trb doesn't care about the peers, and there isn't a single point of failure (aka DNS and root servers) we are sound, correct? 1932427;1567184977;asciilifeform;girlattorney: most folks who know how to operate trb, have at least 1 public and some # of unadvertised nodes. 1932428;1567185010;asciilifeform;girlattorney: the major weak point is propagation from miners, who are living in own parallel chinese universe and between whom and trb there is a thick layer of garbage. 1932429;1567185029;asciilifeform;( evidently, as you can see, not too thick to propagate blocks in something like realtime. presently. ) 1932430;1567185038;girlattorney;and if i have understood correctly in BGP you do advertise your own routes and eventually someone go to your home and say "you cannot advertise these routes" 1932431;1567185058;girlattorney;is not like DNS where there is a precise hierarchy, correct? 1932432;1567185095;asciilifeform;girlattorney: presently -- correct. washington is continuously [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-06-25#1920076][trying to push a washingtonized pseudo-bgp] 'replacement' but yet not much uptake. 1932433;1567185095;snsabot;Logged on 2019-06-25 16:35:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: usg ministry of lulz is trying to push usgtronic 'pki' bgp. so, 1st gotta 'make weather', vandalize a bit, drum up interest. 1932434;1567185171;asciilifeform;they ~would~ like to turn it into something resembling dns. 1932435;1567185199;girlattorney;i'm in europe, so in my case the middleman should be ripe ncc 1932436;1567185215;girlattorney;but haven't understood if ripe depends from iana 1932437;1567185250;asciilifeform;girlattorney: euro backbone is [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-21#1929962][also pretty interesting] from this pov. 1932438;1567185251;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-21 00:00:24 asciilifeform: ( often enuff there's a concealed -- if not always well-concealed -- roundtrip to london / washington, sitting in 'between austria and switzerland' etc ) 1932439;1567185282;BingoBoingo;girlattorney: BGP is held together by routers on the edges of individual networks holding the entire route table in memory. In part there's folks allocating IP address blocks. In the other part there's the routers accepting and/or rejecting updates to the routes they already know. 1932440;1567185319;girlattorney;thanks for the insights 1932441;1567185389;girlattorney;from what i've understood iana is the big boy that decided everything in the beginning, then created some other orgs to give the idea that every continent got it's own independent association 1932442;1567185427;girlattorney;but in the end they are still controlling the v4 and v6 public space allocation 1932443;1567185450;asciilifeform;girlattorney: the washingtonization of the net was 'soft-pedalled' so that the few actually independent kingdoms , e.g. ru, would allow their indigenous nets (e.g. 'fido') to fully decay and fall apart 1932444;1567185454;asciilifeform;rather than to compete with arpa's 1932445;1567185478;asciilifeform;slowly the 'soft' is going out, and instead 'hard' 1932446;1567185551;BingoBoingo;Anyone else waiting for one of their nodes to eat and spread block 592450? 1932447;1567185582;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: mine's on 592449 1932448;1567185592;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: mine as well 1932449;1567185603;girlattorney;i've read that with ripe ncc you have your loa with your own ip space, if you "fucks up" 3 times announcing blocks, the peers connected to you have to disconnect 1932450;1567185613;girlattorney;(ip blocks) 1932451;1567185763;asciilifeform;girlattorney: usg takes the 'rats in a barrel' approach to ipv4, they hog 80+% of the ip space and wait for the remaining people to choke from crowding and eventually submit to centralized control 1932452;1567185786;girlattorney;make sense 1932453;1567185949;asciilifeform;girlattorney: re [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932360][colo] -- talk with diana_coman , who has been surveying various colos. ( [http://pizarroisp.net/][piz] is pretty packed in re trb, has no fewer than 3 operating nodes . and really these benefit from being dispersed geographically, rather than concentrated in 1-2 cages ! ) 1932454;1567185949;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 13:40:12 girlattorney: i was trying to moving it on a better colo and left everything off for a while 1932455;1567186025;asciilifeform;girlattorney: diana_coman lives here + in her chan #ossasepia . 1932456;1567186116;girlattorney;i must disclose that at the current value of BTC i'm haven't got so much to justify multiple nodes in expensive colos 1932457;1567186116;girlattorney;but i'll get in touch to have an idea of prices and availability 1932458;1567186153;asciilifeform;in most places, a trb-grade box leases for equiv. of maybe 100 $ (usa) . 1932459;1567186171;asciilifeform;( per mo. ) 1932460;1567186270;girlattorney;100 a month is too much, im in the 20 range atm 1932461;1567186415;asciilifeform;girlattorney: it is difficult to get anything for so little. in some parts of europistan, e.g. romania, residential (claimed) GB fiber goes for ~10/mo, but industrial rack slot with guaranteed mains current and bandwidth still closer, last i knew, to that 100 figure 1932462;1567186456;asciilifeform;girlattorney: trying to get trb box for 20 is rather like trying to get luxury automobile for 1000 1932463;1567186540;asciilifeform;net connectivity only seems cheap because residential isp 'oversell' their capacity. 1932464;1567186557;asciilifeform;real pipe is quite expensive. at e.g. piz it is substantial % of the operating cost. 1932465;1567186598;girlattorney;if i can ask, what is the oversell rate of a pizarro grade isp? 1932466;1567186610;asciilifeform;this was actually discussed recently 1932467;1567186629;asciilifeform;piz has a 200Mb pipe, and on some days it is quite crowded. 1932468;1567186654;asciilifeform;currently we do not have precise measurement in realtime. but on most days i can get 100-500kB/s to my box there (from usa) 1932469;1567186690;asciilifeform;but sometimes this falls to 50, or worse, when 1 or more of the piz inhabitants is at high load. 1932470;1567186760;asciilifeform;girlattorney: today piz is an 'all you can eat' shop, from subscriber pov. but eventually will have to meter. 1932471;1567186816;girlattorney;kB so about 1-4 mbits? 1932472;1567186823;asciilifeform;correct 1932473;1567186867;asciilifeform;girlattorney: isps in the nato reich seem 'fast' , but only for so long as the connecting peer is also in the reich. connectivity to the free world is rather more limited. 1932474;1567186898;asciilifeform;the 'flat topology' of the net is largely an illusion. 1932475;1567186899;girlattorney;read the bingo bongo post about cdn and local intranets with load of bandwith 1932476;1567186905;girlattorney;just to feed netflixers 1932477;1567186916;asciilifeform;when you get out of the reich space, it begins to very much matter where you are vis-a-vis your peer. 1932478;1567186943;girlattorney;but then when you go outside, you instantly go from a 10 lanes road to a single lane road 1932479;1567186963;asciilifeform;girlattorney: correct. in usa there are a great number of 'televison'-flavoured nominally ip-based services, and they mostly do not use the actual net at all, but instead connect to a cabinet in the isp's local house. 1932480;1567186968;asciilifeform;aha. 1932481;1567187020;asciilifeform;girlattorney: see also this [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=208][predicted endgame for internet in usa.] 1932482;1567187041;girlattorney;what is sad if that currently if you are in europe, to reach south america, you HAVE to pass through USA 1932483;1567187053;girlattorney;*is that 1932484;1567187089;asciilifeform;girlattorney: there's supposedly a fiber from brazil to portugal, iirc, but still owned by reich-controlled conglomerate afaik. 1932485;1567187170;girlattorney;won't change much politically, but this cable has the potential to lower the overseas link prices 1932486;1567187191;girlattorney;and we could get cheaper bandwith 1932487;1567187257;girlattorney;that fiber that already exist from brazil to portugal is only used for telephone traffic (can't remember where i read this) 1932488;1567187296;asciilifeform;this may be so . and given the delay b/w e.g. piz & europistan, i'm quite certain the packets go a few undocumented 'extra' 1000 km . 1932489;1567187299;girlattorney;(atlantis 2) 1932490;1567187303;asciilifeform;almost certainly to north amer. 1932491;1567187331;asciilifeform;the (consistent) delays you can measure with own hands, are quite revealing of the actual physical topology. 1932492;1567187333;girlattorney;the game changer should arrive with "ella link" 1932493;1567187342;BingoBoingo;There's several SA to Europe pipes, Almost all of them go through Fortaleza, Brazil 1932494;1567187445;asciilifeform;girlattorney: sometimes this reaches 'comedy' level, i.e. you're connecting from washington to new york and it goes -- evidently -- through london 1932495;1567187454;girlattorney;in 2020 1932496;1567187499;girlattorney;BingoBoingo i think you aren't aware that currently there isn't an IP route from fortaleza to eu 1932497;1567187506;girlattorney;tried many times to research on this 1932498;1567187516;asciilifeform;( usg's nsa has an ancient charter, nominally still in effect, where somehow 'not spy inside usa'. but this is made into joke, instead route packet via britain, where identical branch office w/ same bugs ) 1932499;1567187520;girlattorney;https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ 1932500;1567187540;girlattorney;(a direct IP route without hops on NA) 1932501;1567187577;asciilifeform;girlattorney: i'm quite certain presently that you're right, and the packets from south a. go through north a. always. simply based on delay measurements to date. 1932502;1567187608;girlattorney;there are two cables: one from 2000 that afaik carries only phone calls and govt activities (atlantis 2) and the 2nd that is still not operational (ella link) 1932503;1567187618;asciilifeform;( it's either that or there's a 3000km spool randomly sitting in brazil , that it goes through !! ) 1932504;1567187889;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Out of curiosity could you report what your node does when fed this thing purported to be block 592450 https://blockchain.info/block/000000000000000000129d844f9717256ffde5555b345f987f25339520e76734?format=hex 1932505;1567187938;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: will try in 20min or so (currently hands fulla crud) 1932506;1567187948;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: aite 1932507;1567187960;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: what was result when you tried ? 1932508;1567188007;BingoBoingo;Pretty sure my copy-paste buffer munged the hex: Block decode failed (code -22) 1932509;1567188038;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ftr i've never 1nce resorted to spoon-feeding my noad 1932510;1567188048;asciilifeform;always did the 'let's give it a day or 3' thing 1932511;1567188201;BingoBoingo;After a long stretch of not needing to give a day or two and seeing the whole trb-iverse visible from my chair stuck on the same block, I figure why not try to forcefeed the problem block 1932512;1567188344;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in very recent times i in fact [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-01#1926124][observed prb propagating blocks that aint in fact kosher] ! 1932513;1567188344;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-01 18:31:03 asciilifeform: at this pt, seems quite evident that someone is throwing around crafted wedge chains (i.e. mined after-the-fact , with backdated timestamp, going from older block) specifically to wedge syncing folx. 1932514;1567188372;asciilifeform;i.e. that no genuine bitcoin node will eat. 1932515;1567188420;asciilifeform;hrm maybe this is wrong log link. 1932516;1567188425;asciilifeform;but this also observed. 1932517;1567188520;asciilifeform;e.g. [http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-01#1926106][there.] 1932518;1567188521;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-01 17:39:18 asciilifeform: dorion: '08/01/19 01:11:33 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=0000000000000000000b height=588012 work=2327381792950809691787748424' << somebody's sending invalid blox. happens erryday. 1932519;1567189000;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: btw for that heathen dump, the conversion is xxd -r -p liquishit.txt > liquishit.bin . 1932520;1567189037;BingoBoingo;ty 1932521;1567189109;*;asciilifeform looks at 'zoolag' log, it quite depressing picture, 900000 'heathen command, banned' erry hr 1932522;1567189122;asciilifeform;the network is in prolly saddest shape it's ever been in 1932523;1567189126;mp_en_viaje;www is ~same 1932524;1567189169;mp_en_viaje;anyways, i'll be off for the night. cya all laterz 1932525;1567189174;asciilifeform;nighty mp_en_viaje 1932526;1567189225;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: btw if you haven't noticed, that block aint edible, it's a MB and half !! 1932527;1567189246;asciilifeform;apparently 'blockchain info' nao serves gavinized blox as 'bitcoin' 1932528;1567189320;BingoBoingo;Or there's some segshit attached which should be shaved off 1932529;1567189330;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if you know how to shave it, plox to say. 1932530;1567189335;BingoBoingo;I do not 1932531;1567189337;asciilifeform;i dun deal w/ prbisms with any regularity any moar 1932532;1567189586;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and indeed no one in known trb world seems to have ...450 just yet. 1932533;1567189598;BingoBoingo;Hence the poking 1932534;1567189930;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: no human being seems to have *450 yet, so i can't very well try an' eat it. 1932535;1567189996;asciilifeform;for all i know -- this is the long-awaited 1st shot of the great war. 1932536;1567190042;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: quite likely, if you were to try an' reprocess that turd into a trb-edible block, you will end with a perma-wedged node. 1932537;1567190074;asciilifeform;( if yer lucky, it'll reorg when the actual 450 shows up ) 1932538;1567190100;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Apparently now blocks have a size and a stripped size. Looking for a raw stripped 450 in the wild 1932539;1567190460;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: last time this q was raised, asciilifeform sat and wrote in fact 80% of a 'tmsr node explorer' proggy, to try an' find 'where are the humans' instead of continuing to rely on chance. but never got chance to finish. 1932540;1567190466;mod6;i've got up through 451 now. 1932541;1567190467;lobbesbot;mod6: Sent 3 hours and 6 minutes ago: the links to your pizarro banners appear to all be 404 on mod6.net, is there any way you could assemble all the banners together in a blog post or something? 1932542;1567190483;asciilifeform;mod6: oh hm. can haz dumpblock of 450-451 plox ? 1932543;1567190487;mod6;was stuck on 449 for a bit tho. 1932544;1567190505;BingoBoingo;mod6: I suddenly hit up to 453 all within the last minute 1932545;1567190521;mod6;BingoBoingo: cool 1932546;1567190524;mod6;asciilifeform: lemme check 1932547;1567190535;asciilifeform;or mod6 let's give it a few min 1932548;1567190536;mod6;as per your comment re banners, BingoBoingo, will look. 1932549;1567190542;mod6;asciilifeform: ok cool thx. 1932550;1567190585;mod6;455 nao... 1932551;1567190598;asciilifeform;seems like 450 is 1 of those monsters that takes 10-20min to verify 1932552;1567190655;mod6;happens sometimes, ya 1932553;1567190734;asciilifeform;( and, recall, when trb is verifying , all net processing grinds to a halt ) 1932554;1567190752;asciilifeform;you'll see kilometre of 'socket closed' and is all 1932555;1567190803;asciilifeform;and indeed zoolag's been sitting in disk i/o wait for ~10m nao.. 1932556;1567190827;asciilifeform;( samsung ssd, no less ) 1932557;1567190882;mod6;*nod* 1932558;1567190912;mod6;BingoBoingo: ok, banners should be there. want to try again? (otherwise, can move to blog post) 1932559;1567190913;asciilifeform;wb mod6 btw 1932560;1567190920;mod6;thanks alf 1932561;1567190921;asciilifeform;mod6: how've you been 1932562;1567190932;asciilifeform;( i assume -- 9th circle of salt mine hell ? ) 1932563;1567190983;mod6;busy. took a vacation. needed to think about things. mainly about my tarpit problems; still a problem circa november of last year. 1932564;1567191035;mod6;but yeah, 9th circle. but now, I'm committing myself to getting rid of the salt-mine, somehow. I've got to do some thinking, and talking to peoples, etc. but I want out of that life. 1932565;1567191057;asciilifeform;mod6: talk with lobbes , he seems to have made progress escaping his. 1932566;1567191070;mod6;cheers, yeah will do. 1932567;1567191087;asciilifeform;mod6: asciilifeform presently is still in his relatively 'humane house arrest' gulag 1932568;1567191134;asciilifeform;mod6: it's a 'damocle's sword' sort of existence, if/when it folds, may well end up in a conventional one again. 1932569;1567191139;mod6;*nod* in the early days, pre-tmsr, I had a similar thing, was much easier to stay focused/up-to-date. 1932570;1567191206;mod6;but now, need to re-invent myself a bit. need to move on from 9-5ism, and be my own man. will be a "project" for me, but working on the deets/plans atm. 1932571;1567191252;asciilifeform;mod6: when you succeed in this, i'ma defo read your escape memoir. 1932572;1567191271;mod6;thanks alf, will write when complete. 1932573;1567191282;asciilifeform;all of asciilifeform's attempts at escape to date, only ended with deeper pit. 1932574;1567191369;mod6;indeed like quicksand. 1932575;1567191490;mod6;the important thing for me is that i'm resolved to not just sit around and wait for things to happen to me, re: 9-5 tarpit. im starting down a path of emacipation from that. might take some time, but not too much time. 1932576;1567191495;mod6;it's already been too long. 1932577;1567191514;asciilifeform;folx who sit and sit -- eventually brain evaporates 1932578;1567191528;mod6;soon i'll have none left! 1932579;1567191540;asciilifeform;asciilifeform was alraedy half-dead when got out from last 'conventional gulag' in '16 1932580;1567191544;asciilifeform;was pretty close shave. 1932581;1567191633;asciilifeform;re further trb lulz : 24.93.104.14 spams liquishit blox at ~gb/s 1932582;1567191661;asciilifeform;sumbody's 'really trying' 1932583;1567191671;mod6;i see him in my logz too 1932584;1567191790;asciilifeform;mod6: consider standing up a log mirror, like diana_coman today. it is relatively imho 'light' exercise, oughta be good for morale of mod6 , and makes very useful result . 1932585;1567191822;asciilifeform;press asciilifeform's vtree and follow the readme ( with diana_coman's nitpick from 12h ago , re the createdb step ) 1932586;1567191884;mod6;i saw in the logs that others were standing one up - immediately thought "ok, yup do this too." but before I embark on yet another thing, need to ensure that i have proper time. but i'll add it to list for sure. 1932587;1567191910;asciilifeform;mod6: depending on whether you have a box where can run python & postgres, it is maybe 1-2hrs of sweat. 1932588;1567191913;mod6;thanks for your efforts in building logtron. 1932589;1567191922;mod6;i use the page daily, works well. 1932590;1567191937;mod6;asciilifeform: cool, got it. 1932591;1567191956;asciilifeform;mod6: it's a nearly starvation-bare logtron atm, missing all kindsa luxuries (e.g. phf's backlinks system) . but atm it's the only 100% working ~published~ one 1932592;1567192020;mod6;cool! 1932593;1567192040;asciilifeform;aand it's made of junkyard parts ( see diana_coman's laments ) . at some pt we will have a civilized, human replacement. 1932594;1567192094;asciilifeform;perhaps before leave fleanode, perhaps after, but will. 1932595;1567192141;asciilifeform;imho an orchestra of log mirrors / bot boxen is a notbad prelude to the eventual gossipdification . 1932596;1567192147;asciilifeform;( for which will need boxes just the same ) 1932597;1567192186;mod6;yea, exactly. 1932598;1567192219;asciilifeform;in re trb -- zoolag ~still~ chewing on a block (perhaps the genuine ..450, perhaps not) even nao. 1932599;1567192270;asciilifeform;enemy has had several yrs nao to work on how to 'mass produce' such blox. 1932600;1567192374;asciilifeform;i expect that the o(1) tx db will become needed at some pt for realtime operation, rather than a 'wouldn't it be nice one day' item. 1932601;1567192457;asciilifeform;the ominous bit is that miners themselves are apparently letting these go w/out actually verifying (or they'd sit as long as zoolag is sitting, per) 1932602;1567192517;mod6;fair enough 1932603;1567192524;mod6;yeah, lots to do still. 1932604;1567192812;asciilifeform;aaand here we go, 592450 . 1932605;1567192828;asciilifeform;aand ..451 1932606;1567192836;asciilifeform;aand loox like we're cooking. 1932607;1567192863;asciilifeform;see, BingoBoingo , not yet nodeocalypse hour. 1932608;1567192875;asciilifeform;...453... 1932609;1567192909;asciilifeform;..455 1932610;1567192910;asciilifeform;etc 1932611;1567192952;mod6;im up to 490 on the foundation's node @ piz. 1932612;1567192970;asciilifeform;a++ 1932613;1567193245;asciilifeform;meanwhile [http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema][ diana_coman's log ] appears to be a++ current. pretty neat. 1932614;1567193299;asciilifeform;i'ma switch off the lolazon pseudo-machine mirrors. they've lived out their purpose. 1932615;1567193474;asciilifeform;for thrd-completeness -- [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4Iv7Q/?raw=true][informal pipe comparison] . 1932616;1567193531;asciilifeform;err, 1932617;1567193549;asciilifeform;apparently mine 301's in that case, let's redo: 1932618;1567193563;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZVZiN/?raw=true . 1932619;1567193582;asciilifeform;diana_coman's actually faster, from usa, than mine . 1932620;1567194013;asciilifeform;re blox -- loox like ..456 is another 'heaviweight'. 1932621;1567194056;asciilifeform;segshitness seems to make these easier to produce -- nonexistent sigs make room for moar past tx references. 1932622;1567194081;asciilifeform;which i guess was at least part of the objective of thrusting it upon the illiterates. 1932623;1567194909;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932454 lulz >>> https://www.submarinecablemap.com/#/submarine-cable/gtmo-1 . 1932624;1567194910;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 14:35:11 girlattorney: https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ 1932625;1567194991;asciilifeform;^ i suppose streams live vids from torture chamber to centralcommittee. 1932626;1567195634;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/ggWPK][apparently this 'gitmo cable' had made it into the fishwraps.] 1932627;1567195652;asciilifeform;35m , supposedly, cost. seems peculiarly cheap, esp. for an usgism. 1932628;1567196781;asciilifeform;i.e. <23k / km ! 1932629;1567199427;diana_coman;!!up ossabot 1932630;1567199428;deedbot;ossabot voiced for 30 minutes. 1932631;1567199472;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932575 - ha, so usa can get faster @kukuruz than @uruguay, lolz. 1932632;1567199472;ossabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 16:31:43 asciilifeform: diana_coman's actually faster, from usa, than mine . 1932633;1567199535;diana_coman;test line citing works, quite nice 1932634;1567199756;asciilifeform;diana_coman: a++ 1932635;1567199989;diana_coman;for completeness, here's the timing from UK, apparently Moldova wins by far: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/U5Fnx/?raw=true 1932636;1567200082;asciilifeform;diana_coman: doesn't your default /log go to #o ? 1932637;1567200086;asciilifeform;i.e. smaller page 1932638;1567200095;diana_coman;ftr the isp guys were very prompt and willing to do as asked; although one has to ask for the most basic of things, they at least do it 1932639;1567200115;diana_coman;asciilifeform: you are right; let's redo then 1932640;1567200120;asciilifeform;be sure to compare identical pgs when timing ( this tripped me earlier ) 1932641;1567200165;asciilifeform;use one with full url w/ chan & day 1932642;1567200220;diana_coman;well, I copied your test, yes; and it seems it's much closer and if anything, reversed indeed: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AQfnO/?raw=true 1932643;1567200226;diana_coman;uruguay wins after all 1932644;1567200251;asciilifeform;mno, yer seein a 301 1932645;1567200259;asciilifeform;see, 257 bytes 1932646;1567200307;diana_coman;uhm, why? 1932647;1567200337;asciilifeform;gotta use full url w/ chan, to get the page. curl normally doesn't walk 301 ( there's a toggle but i fughot ) 1932648;1567200361;diana_coman;hm 1932649;1567200386;diana_coman;the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log is as earlier so visibly slow though not sure why 1932650;1567200398;asciilifeform;diana_coman: look in reader.py to see why, i made it default to selected chan ( for if folx want to substitute it for phf's on their blogs ) 1932651;1567200462;diana_coman;here, using asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BQ6Lp/?raw=true 1932652;1567200478;asciilifeform;this loox proper. 1932653;1567200531;diana_coman;asciilifeform: ah, you mean that curl doesn't follow the redirect, right. 1932654;1567200533;asciilifeform;diana_coman: from where loaded ? 1932655;1567200541;asciilifeform;britain ? 1932656;1567200543;diana_coman;asciilifeform: uk, reading 1932657;1567200545;diana_coman;yes 1932658;1567200547;asciilifeform;aa ok 1932659;1567200558;asciilifeform;then looks entirely like i expect. 1932660;1567205926;BingoBoingo;In local WTF https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/como-seran-las-estaciones-con-wifi-cargador-de-celular-y-agua-caliente-anunciadas-por-la-imm-2019830154440 1932661;1567205990;BingoBoingo;The clear understandable part is the hot water. They need that for their Mate pipes 1932662;1567219145;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 592494 atm. 1932663;1567219168;BingoBoingo;592530 here 1932664;1567219865;asciilifeform;trinque: iirc you had some box in asia -- consider to put logger there. the moar, the merrier. 1932665;1567220016;asciilifeform;i expect the load times will tell us something interesting, just as before. 1932666;1567220071;asciilifeform;( and when we teach'em to talk to each other -- then can kiss goodbye to fleanode... ) 1932667;1567220126;asciilifeform;will be lulzy if we even end up with bigger net than fleanode, simply from the junk boxen people ~already~ have. 1932668;1567227595;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932253 << congrats diana_coman! I tip my hat to your beating me to the finish line 1932669;1567227596;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 12:06:34 diana_coman: yeeeee, works and test-live at logs.ossasepia.com (185.163.46.29) 1932670;1567227636;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932255 << updated [http://lobbesblog.com/static/tmsr_bot_directory.html][bot directory] with ossabot 1932671;1567227637;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 12:07:47 diana_coman: name's ossabot so can haz !o maybe? 1932672;1567227808;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932283 << I do understand the 'spammy-ness' of it; perhaps could have two commands: a !Qlater chan and !Qlater pm 1932673;1567227809;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 12:36:27 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1932106 << what, the later tell delivery ? 1932674;1567227812;lobbes;but this is one of those "no real need to solve today" problems imo. Can sit on it a while 1932675;1567228148;lobbes;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932520 << ftr, THE thing that helped me the most in the last month was removing a broken homefront partnership from my life. My saltmine job (as an "excel jockey") has remained the same for the last 4 years 1932676;1567228150;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 15:34:08 asciilifeform: mod6: talk with lobbes , he seems to have made progress escaping his. 1932677;1567228162;lobbes;Note, too, that my saltmine right now IS a "9-5", only I lucked out finding one that a) "pays well" and b) I don't, actually, work a full "9-5". I'm bezzling the bezzle, in a sense 1932678;1567228274;lobbes;(while this lasts, of course. The 'sword of damocle' hangs over ALL of us still sucking blood from the reich, "9-5" or no.) 1932679;1567228337;lobbes;s/sucking blood from the reich/*depending on* the reich to suck blood from/ 1932680;1567228492;lobbes;mod6: take it from me, please, the best thing I ever did was start blogging/writing things down/*expressing* myself. Only through this kind of reflection (and by this I mean analyzing the reasoning you used in the past for action and analyzing your reasoning for future action), and through the critical eye of others can that fog even start to clear 1932681;1567228534;lobbes;in other words, make a post my friend. If anything I'll read it and comment 1932682;1567228569;lobbes;annd I'm off to bed. Got LAMP stack up on heathen server yesterday; tomorrow gonna try logotron proper 1932683;1567238766;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932624 -> thanks for posting the versions that worked on your testbed, they saved a lot of futzing around! 1932684;1567240383;mircea_popescu;keks, no moar "parliament". only took 1k or so years, the albiontards are slow. 1932685;1567240967;mircea_popescu;trinque, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930944 << never went. do you see it somewheres ? 1932686;1567240968;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-25 09:31:14 mircea_popescu: !!withdraw 0.09776 1KQ6jRPaa9RneTYMppJiMCsd1RqMeQM8H 1932687;1567241000;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932308 << thick. 1932688;1567241001;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 13:12:44 asciilifeform: wai which is 1932689;1567263019;trinque;mircea_popescu: didn't get a !!v for that one 1932690;1567269403;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i noticed that your [http://logs.ossasepia.com/static/log_db.gz][db snapshot link] dun go yet. [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/80IQ2/?raw=true][here is example, how mine worx]. and [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/v89TR/?raw=true][here is the crontab]. can adjust paths for yours. 1932691;1567269496;asciilifeform;these will go in the 'readme' at next patch. 1932692;1567269646;diana_coman;asciilifeform: thank you; I haven't yet set the cron jobs, yes; will do it later today. 1932693;1567269709;asciilifeform;if next patch is diana_coman's -- invited to put in cron etc. 1932694;1567272772;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: power supply (w/ nominally jp caps) for rk plant, bought 1932695;1567273194;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty 1932696;1567273253;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: my original plan included a serial-controlled relay board for rebooting individual rk. but nao thinking, just how often anyone asked to reboot ? do we need this ? 1932697;1567273315;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I can't remember reboot requests for the rockchips that didn't involve disk swaps 1932698;1567273330;asciilifeform;rright, and the thing will still have to be slid out an' opened to swap 1932699;1567273351;asciilifeform;so i'ma omit the relays ( granted the 1u flat setup will be considerably easier to swap pieces in, than in old plant ) 1932700;1567273373;asciilifeform;i.e. nomoar 'towers of hanoi' 1932701;1567273538;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: item will actually slide, given as will have only 2 wires going to it (mains & 1 ethernet) and not 15 1932702;1567273607;BingoBoingo;Very nice. is there going to be space in the case for FUCKGOATS, 2.5" SSD's etc 1932703;1567273642;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 4 pads for FG ( could moar, but could interfere with air ) 1932704;1567273654;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Aite 1932705;1567273659;asciilifeform;and 2 2.5" ssd 1932706;1567273729;asciilifeform;the primary win of closed 1u chassis for rk is proper, civilized forced air 1932707;1567273783;asciilifeform;presently i blame 100% of the headaches in pilot plant, on lack of proper air 1932708;1567273810;BingoBoingo;Well, lack of proper air and original plastic insulated USD disks 1932709;1567273823;asciilifeform;even these, i suspect, would've lived 4x longer w/ air. 1932710;1567273906;BingoBoingo;Maybe, but there just wasn't more than 5 to 10-ish square mm of metal surface exposed on them for air to do much heat exchanging 1932711;1567273922;asciilifeform;tru 1932712;1567274235;BingoBoingo;And it looks like we have consecutive days of TRB constipation 592597 has yet to enter the canon 1932713;1567274348;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: yest.'s episode cemented in my head the insufficiency of my orig. 'aggression' patch. i strongly suspect The Right Thing is some variant of ben's. with the orig., node eats 5-10 blox when connects to trb peers on restart, then the connections stable and gets nomoar for hours. whereas on ea. restart, in facts gets the 5-10. 1932714;1567274406;asciilifeform;( iirc in ben_vulpes's variant, 'if no block for 10min+, milk all peers' ) 1932715;1567274430;BingoBoingo;Well, I just restarted one ~15 minutes ago. Has yet to pull the missing block. 1932716;1567274455;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'can only pull rabbit from hat if rabbit is in fact in the hat'(tm) 1932717;1567274465;BingoBoingo;Indeed 1932718;1567274499;asciilifeform;i was speaking specifically of 'i ~know~ these people have x, so why do i only get x-10,x-9,... when connecting to'em and then nuffin' ) 1932719;1567274702;asciilifeform;the correct frequency with which situation 'trb node a is at height H, its peer trb node b is at H-k, for hour+' oughta happen, is ~never~ 1932720;1567274797;BingoBoingo;I'm suspecting a lot of nodes on the intermediate PRB version numbers 0.8, 0.9, etc before peer-to-peer pki-ism are falling enough that we may have few bridges allowing communication between prb and trb 1932721;1567274849;asciilifeform;before considering any such horror, rly oughta fix propagation b/w trb !! 1932722;1567274888;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and fwiw i suspect that the entire set of >7 nodes is 100% solid dross, and responsible for 0 block conveyance 1932723;1567274961;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: think, this is elementary. as soon as they issue a 'bloomism' or similar cmd to a trb node -- they get malleus'd. and yet we still get blox in realtime for 6-7 months at a stretch. 1932724;1567275038;asciilifeform;( moreover, they issue it -- and get the ban -- a few msec after connecting. ergo they are responsible for 0 brought blox, and in fact we gain 0 from talking to them ) 1932725;1567275120;asciilifeform;to formalize : asciilifeform's current hypothesis is that there is a thin 'tube' of trb-compat. nodes b/w pekin & trb orchestra. responsible for 100% of new blox. 1932726;1567275172;asciilifeform;whereas the 4000 or however many pseudonodes making up the claimed heathen net -- simply get in the way. 1932727;1567275210;asciilifeform;currently i lack the tools with which to solidly prove or refute this hypothesis. but fwiw have not yet encountered any clue which would contradict it. 1932728;1567275313;asciilifeform;the most helpful currently unavailable tool would be a troo and honest survey of publicly-reachable nodes of erry type. ( via port scan of ipv4 and subsequent interrogation , by properly-written proggy. ) 1932729;1567275320;asciilifeform;atm no one has the hands for this, sadly. 1932730;1567275391;asciilifeform;currently 0 is publicly known re the actual state of the net ( the heathen 'survey' www's are ~disinfo~, they deliberately conceal specifically the nodes we are interested in. ) 1932731;1567275617;asciilifeform;will add : survey of public nodez will also tell us something re the nonpublic ( unless the folx talking to these, took deliberate care to modify their public noad to avoid listing'em in the disgorged peer table ) 1932732;1567275750;asciilifeform;iirc past coupla yrs of prb won't even give peers table. but i'm not interested so much in what prb nodes have to say to begin with. 1932733;1567275881;asciilifeform;... cuz they fucking aint nodes. they're enemy outputs that do strictly as little 'node-ing' as can get away with and still dupe idiots into operating. 1932734;1567275889;asciilifeform;*outposts 1932735;1567276106;BingoBoingo;Generally that is the object to allowing weeds to thrive. They choke out everything else. 1932736;1567276280;asciilifeform;some subset of chinese are almost certainly tuned into prb net specifically to collect that delish candy of eventually-unwindable 'pay-anyone' segshit tx. 1932737;1567276284;asciilifeform;some subset -- not. 1932738;1567276499;asciilifeform;( from my pov -- making the sig optional was ~the~ shitoshi design bug, all the other retardations are scarcely anything if stood in comparison to it ) 1932739;1567276861;asciilifeform;as i understand , all that'd be needed to bring that shitshow to a permanent close, is a dozen or so blocks mined w/ '51%' thrust, containing the segshit unwinds. 1932740;1567276955;asciilifeform;it's already , likely, a +ev proposition. and the only thing preventing this nuke from firing, is the cowardice of the folx holding the detonator. 1932741;1567277075;asciilifeform;marx -- was wrong, i suspect, when wrote that 'for 200% profit, capitalist will sell mother; for 300% -- will go to almost certain noose'. he did not account for cowardice. 1932742;1567277123;BingoBoingo;Well USG.State still feels comfortable trying to throw the Cantonese speakers against the Mandarin speakers. Gotta wait for the white worms to internalize their worthlessness 1932743;1567277180;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nobody ever 'internalized worthlessness', they sit around w/ wagner an' cyanide and bloviate re their 'aryan superiority' even as the tanks wind'em up onto treads 1932744;1567277233;asciilifeform;see also mircea_popescu's 'and they won't yield' piece re subj. 1932745;1567277255;BingoBoingo;At some point some of them realize there are tanks treads to evade for which there is no answer other than Mujica's "No hay que ponerse delante de las tanques" 1932746;1567277399;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: consider, usg.dos et al dun seem to have any trouble finding bottomless supply of orcs quite ready to 'ponerse delante de las tanques' in the name of clitler. 1932747;1567277513;asciilifeform;( apropos of subj -- it is interesting to consider why 'tiananmen wank' is a thing in cn. the not-so-seekrit answer is that open discussion of subj would indeed cost the crowned heads their necks -- but ~not~ for 'ohnoez, killing protesters' -- but instead ~for having left any alive~. their 'grievances' included e.g. 'how dare pekin permit sons of peasants to enter university' . ) 1932748;1567277589;asciilifeform;i.e. current cn politburo is ~soft~. sided w/ pantsuit ! 1932749;1567277604;asciilifeform;went to 'compromise'. 1932750;1567277625;BingoBoingo;1999 book by now deceased Israeli. Intro by Gore Vidal. Probably the best English language resource on why USG and Israel insist on suicide pacting together. https://archive.org/stream/JewishHistoryJewishReligion_665/JewishFundamentalismInIsrael_djvu.txt 1999 book by now deceased 1932751;1567277689;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: this q never struck me as a deep mystery. angloreich gotta have its 'unsinkable carriers', israel, taiwan, south kr, etc 1932752;1567277695;asciilifeform;all exist for roughly same reason. 1932753;1567277724;asciilifeform;south vietnam was gonna be on the list, but 'oops' 1932754;1567277783;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: re israel -- consider fact that stalin happily funded it, while it was -- briefly -- a bone in the throat of angloreich, rather than province in good standing of same 1932755;1567277848;asciilifeform;!qs altalena 1932756;1567277850;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=altalena&chan=trilema][6 results for "altalena" in #trilema] 1932757;1567277854;asciilifeform;^ see also re subj. 1932758;1567278119;BingoBoingo;Dr. Shahak covers certain aspects of the talmud/rabbinic tradition that don't get earnestly translated into English much with respect in ingroup/outgroup. Covers some specific aspects that get adopted as policy through unholy mixture of modern democracy and pre-internet missives on communications ethics. 1932759;1567278200;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ~100% of the folx who gave rat's arse re 'talmudic tradition' went in the ovens. i.e. it has as much to do with the current 'unsinkable carrier' as the spew of thomas aquinas has to do with current usg. 1932760;1567278247;asciilifeform;which is to say -- not 0, but epsilon as close to 0 as you might like. 1932761;1567278312;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Perhaps earnestly, yes. Then you fill up a strip of desert with refugees, tell them they have an identity. What do they do when they get the old books? They start cargo culting themselves into super special snowflakes. Being super special snowflakes together is the core of the US-Israel alliance. 1932762;1567278344;asciilifeform;searching for 'talmudic' underpinnings of curent il is a favourite, i'm aware, preoccupation of 'armchair archaeologists', in much the same spirit as 'pedo-pizza proofs' 1932763;1567278349;BingoBoingo;Otherwise the Turks are perfectly friendly, civilized, and big. 1932764;1567278411;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Which is why I discount that space except for the folks inside that camp screaming "This is why they keep doing it to US!" 1932765;1567278470;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: imho it's entirely reminiscent of anglo 'sovietologists' who tried to 'find out what makes them reds tick' by reading engels 1932766;1567278625;asciilifeform;sometimes, believe or not, answer is not 'in the book', but in front of nose. 1932767;1567278646;asciilifeform;( tho folx who dun like what is in front of nose -- will happily bury selves in 'the books', or in pedopizza reddit, etc ) 1932768;1567278842;BingoBoingo;Well the text is a Holocaust survivor presenting: "Three Druze soldiers who served in Goldstein's battalion approached their commander and asked for another doctor to be stationed in their battalion, because they were afraid that Goldstein would refuse to treat them in case they were wounded. Because of their request Goldstein was reassigned to another battalion." 1932769;1567279029;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: phunphakt -- in early-period israel, 'localhost surviver' wasn't considered worth to brag, it was seen (generally correctly) as ~= 'quisling' 1932770;1567279051;asciilifeform;'why you fuck -- alive, while my father -- dead ??' 1932771;1567279081;asciilifeform;later -- phase change, and became 'honorific' . 1932772;1567279121;asciilifeform;!qs kastner 1932773;1567279123;snsabot;[http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=kastner&chan=trilema][1 results for "kastner" in #trilema] 1932774;1567279125;asciilifeform;hm. 1932775;1567279173;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/qP23e][from horse's mouth.] 1932776;1567279239;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1932777;1567279392;BingoBoingo;And here we are. It's 2019. The Chinese are big. Russia is selling a missile plus radar picket system designed to make "Shock and Awe" operations impossible. The first F-35 joint strike fighters become operational and http://qntra.net/2019/07/israelis-enthusiastically-burning-f-35s-stealth-window-with-strikes-now-in-iraq/ 1932778;1567279721;BingoBoingo;I don't see anything other than a martial interpretation of Argentinism (Modern Democracy) at work. Rah, Rah, We R Kool and God/IMFLoans/SovereignDefault/Buitres will indemnify our tribe in the end so long as we appear to go through the motions. 1932779;1567280271;BingoBoingo;Anyways,my criticism of antisemites is they read way too much of each other's wank and not enough of what their target say to each other. 1932780;1567280458;mod6;lobbes: thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate that. 1932781;1567282136;diana_coman;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932647 - cronjobs set and db dump already available. 1932782;1567282136;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-31 13:24:01 diana_coman: asciilifeform: thank you; I haven't yet set the cron jobs, yes; will do it later today. 1932783;1567282189;diana_coman;the scripts for bot & reader are a bit iffier in that I couldn't test them (and they look different from asciilifeform's because of the python version on centos). 1932784;1567283809;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932530 << good luck with it! 1932785;1567283810;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 15:41:21 mod6: the important thing for me is that i'm resolved to not just sit around and wait for things to happen to me, re: 9-5 tarpit. im starting down a path of emacipation from that. might take some time, but not too much time. 1932786;1567283925;asciilifeform;diana_coman: go ahead and make a 'centos' in /contrib or where were these, in vtree, other folx may want'em 1932787;1567283935;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932542 << let him focus on that one thing and get it done. doing 1-2 hour of sweat here and there little things is for when time is flowing to your advantage. 1932788;1567283935;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 15:48:20 asciilifeform: mod6: depending on whether you have a box where can run python & postgres, it is maybe 1-2hrs of sweat. 1932789;1567283938;asciilifeform;i can't imagine diana_coman is the only 1 1932790;1567283969;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932550 << indeed the very point. 1932791;1567283969;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 15:52:11 asciilifeform: imho an orchestra of log mirrors / bot boxen is a notbad prelude to the eventual gossipdification . 1932792;1567284028;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suggested mirrorism to mod6 cuz iirc it's the type of chore he's historically a++ in. as i understand lobbes is 99% of the way to 3rd logger , so not exactly burning , tru 1932793;1567284118;mircea_popescu;not a matter of burning. a matter of, in his position, he has ONE thing to do, and it must be done immediately. time is ticking away. that's NOT when you start picking up small side quests. 1932794;1567284142;asciilifeform;fair'nuff 1932795;1567284148;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932588 << want this on the av list ? 1932796;1567284149;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 17:55:26 diana_coman: test line citing works, quite nice 1932797;1567284692;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932622 << wouldn't even be that surprising ; freenode's about as dead as disco 1932798;1567284692;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-30 23:38:39 asciilifeform: will be lulzy if we even end up with bigger net than fleanode, simply from the junk boxen people ~already~ have. 1932799;1567284714;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they've, what, iirc -- 7 ? working boxen left 1932800;1567284748;mircea_popescu;i recall going through the chans at some point , ~0 live material came up 1932801;1567284815;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932635 << lobbes sounds like he's found the light! 1932802;1567284815;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-31 01:58:05 lobbes: mod6: take it from me, please, the best thing I ever did was start blogging/writing things down/*expressing* myself. Only through this kind of reflection (and by this I mean analyzing the reasoning you used in the past for action and analyzing your reasoning for future action), and through the critical eye of others can that fog even start to clear 1932803;1567284860;diana_coman;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932750 - yes please. 1932804;1567284861;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-31 17:25:44 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-30#1932588 << want this on the av list ? 1932805;1567284878;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932644 << god damn, i suspect the client ate a line. 1932806;1567284879;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-31 11:33:34 trinque: mircea_popescu: didn't get a !!v for that one 1932807;1567284887;asciilifeform;btw re trb : BingoBoingo et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/whogave_10_20_2018-8_31_2019.txt << almost 1y of 'who-gave' blox log . 1932808;1567284903;mircea_popescu;how the fuck did i do the autovoice thing... 1932809;1567285080;mircea_popescu;for future reference, it's /msg chanserv flags #trilema ossabot +V 1932810;1567285186;diana_coman;http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932766 - ty 1932811;1567285187;ossabot;Logged on 2019-08-31 17:56:46 mircea_popescu: for future reference, it's /msg chanserv flags #trilema ossabot +V 1932812;1567285201;mircea_popescu;>D 1932813;1567285233;asciilifeform;btw : awk '{print $8}' whogave_10_20_2018-8_31_2019.txt | sort | uniq > givers.txt >> [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RFeO3/?raw=true][less than 200 nodez] ! 1932814;1567285289;mircea_popescu;http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-31#1932677 << this is quite so. 1932815;1567285290;snsabot;Logged on 2019-08-31 14:51:24 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and fwiw i suspect that the entire set of >7 nodes is 100% solid dross, and responsible for 0 block conveyance 1932816;1567285417;asciilifeform;i.e. 46115 blox, from 182 nodez ! 1932817;1567285439;asciilifeform;and 0 from anyone else. (zoolag, asciilifeform's personal noad) 1932818;1567285510;asciilifeform;5205 of these from piz alone . 1932819;1567285949;asciilifeform;( to be utterly pedantic : the however-many ~other~ peers, they got connected , ~were asked for next block~, and ~said 'fuckoff'~ ! ) 1932820;1567286177;asciilifeform;from this log, it would imho not be a mistake to say that there are approx 200 boxen that could be described as btc nodes . the rest -- are https://www.oglaf.com/humans/ . 1932821;1567286201;asciilifeform;(i.e. as seen from the publicly-reachable net. ) 1932822;1567286248;asciilifeform;entirely possib. that the actual # is smaller yet -- some % of the 182 may be folx on dynamic ips, or since dead, or otherwise >1 to 1 ratio of ip in log to physically-alive machine . 1932823;1567286413;asciilifeform;anyone else running a trb w/ 'who-gave' -- invited to publish theirs . 1932824;1567286593;BingoBoingo;In the end humans on the internet fits in the Dunbar number while "humans" on the internet are uncountably prolific 1932825;1567287337;*;asciilifeform waves to the lurker from argentina searching asciilifeform's log for 'learn ru' 1932826;1567287719;asciilifeform;3y of lurk oughta be enuff for anyone, imho ! 1932827;1567287801;asciilifeform;report to #a, herr lurker, get yer uniform & spade . dun let life pass by while watching . 1932828;1567290639;asciilifeform;btw , re nodez : while read p; do echo -n `grep -c $p whogave_10_20_2018-8_31_2019.txt` " " >> givers_count.txt ; echo $p >> givers_count.txt ; done < givers.txt ; sort -r -n -k1 givers_count.txt > givers_sorted.txt >>> yields [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kPQpS/?raw=true][this] . 1932829;1567290730;asciilifeform;will put in l0gz, ftr : the only nodes that gave >100 blox of the 46115 : 1932830;1567290733;asciilifeform;11638:188.121.168.69, 7330:208.94.240.42, 6841:188.165.209.181, 4665:161.0.121.248, 4049:82.79.58.192, 3456:50.65.189.23, 1945:158.140.128.224, 1782:193.93.74.78 . 1932831;1567290741;asciilifeform;err, >1000 1932832;1567290822;asciilifeform;together these 8 accounted for 41706 blox, i.e. >90% of the total mass. 1932833;1567290975;asciilifeform;#4 place winner is BingoBoingo at piz ; #2 i think is BingoBoingo's old box in usa, if i'm not mistaken 1932834;1567290985;asciilifeform;the rest -- i have nfi 1932835;1567291023;asciilifeform;#1 is something in, loox like slovakia, possibly jurov 1932836;1567291066;asciilifeform;>25% of total mass, that one. 1932837;1567291207;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat 1932838;1567295659;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: 4th is TBF at #pizarro