1899819;1551400073;mod6;Lords and Ladies of the Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation's State of Bitcoin Address [February] : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2019-March/000325.html
1899820;1551403575;mircea_popescu;bvt certainly
1899821;1551403667;mircea_popescu;if you find something of interest feel free to genesis or w/e.
1899822;1551403917;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899779 << cuz he figures their "idea" of "make money by consulting! like red hat!" poisonous esr nonsense was in practice implemented by breaking the standard for free, so you "buy product".
1899823;1551403917;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 20:35 diana_coman: why exactly interesting?
1899824;1551403934;mircea_popescu;a most infuriating implementation of broken-by-design, ironically exactly the thing foss was supposed to prevent.
1899825;1551404021;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899789 << but ofcouars. "[http://trilema.com/2014/ubuntu-is-a-worse-piece-of-shit-than-ms-dos-ever-was/#selection-145.248-145.291][requires netbase]" too, i'm sure.
1899826;1551404021;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 20:43 asciilifeform: those come with the opensores gnat tho ( i was never able to get it to run, seems to only work on winblowz and shituntu )
1899827;1551405047;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's obv. vandalistic, what they do. but i'm pretty curious what you'd have'em do instead? maintain the standard on nights and weekends while writing java for microshit ?
1899828;1551405106;mircea_popescu;why'd i have them do anything ? africa's fulla africans who don't go around pompously pretending they're white people.
1899829;1551405111;mircea_popescu;more of that, less of this.
1899830;1551405145;mircea_popescu;also "what would you have moron do ???" "well, i didn't say he HAS to be wykeham professor of logic / chicago professor of constitutional law / whatever".
1899831;1551405153;asciilifeform;a very http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-19#1243116 answr
1899832;1551405153;a111;Logged on 2015-08-19 00:18 asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.'  cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family'  mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
1899833;1551405181;asciilifeform;it remains troo that errybody wants flying palace of gold but nobody wants to pay shit.
1899834;1551405195;mircea_popescu;there's really no rule there must be crap "made available" to "the public". a) there's no such thing as "the public" and b) srsly now. do it right or go the fuck home, tell wifey your troubles.
1899835;1551405218;asciilifeform;well the 'pro' thing aint 'available to public'. but still africans ?
1899836;1551405234;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the point you pursue would be A LOT more defensible among the honorable poor, people who say "we did this much and intend to do this much more when we can".
1899837;1551405253;mircea_popescu;witness the reaction to the discussion of tcc very different to the reaction to this discussion of zcx.
1899838;1551405302;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i have no intention to comment on the "pro" whatever it is. the "authors" not in wot, item dun exist, wut do i care.
1899839;1551405360;asciilifeform;i dun know ~anyffin about it, either. q is where the fuck standards-compliant soft are to come from, to begin with.
1899840;1551405366;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899801 << it's a methodologically defensible "charitable read" ; nevertheless not actually supported by the facts, as it happens. this dun invalidate the method i dun think.
1899841;1551405366;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 20:47 asciilifeform: bvt: i started with the supposition that it was built for irons where there is no time slicer , but currently nfi whether this is so, or whether was simply a kludge for no particular reason
1899842;1551405373;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform here.
1899843;1551405530;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899802 << this ties directly into above. it's not a problem of "these engineers did not do enough". it's not an engineering problem at all. it's 100% political, "these sorry schmucks passed themselves off for an authority they could never possibly be". this'll never wash, and in particular indigence is the worst possible plea they could bring. if they ALSO are poor then THEREFORE even LESS q
1899844;1551405530;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 20:47 diana_coman: bvt, my understanding is that zcx said "this case is too complicated to even try to handle and why do you need it anyway, terrorist!"
1899845;1551405530;mircea_popescu;ualified to go about emperor-ing in the buff.
1899846;1551405642;mircea_popescu;"how dare you even call your aborted glob of misdesign SOMETHING AT ALL!" is the question. kids don't go around giving names to their lego constructions and then hacking everyone's gps to point to imaginary "City Of Wonderful Wonderments" 2x3 foot square.
1899847;1551405661;mircea_popescu;argentines do this, and ima fucking napalm that shithole for it. because it just can't fucking be done, what "zcx" ? the name they were looking for is "snot".
1899848;1551405724;mircea_popescu;from 's not in the standard"
1899849;1551406133;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899805 << the keks of all time. so basically they picked http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897694 ?
1899850;1551406133;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 20:49 bvt: also, at least for vxworks, adacore for certified profiles supports only sjlj, while using zcx for non-certified use-cases
1899851;1551406133;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:07 mircea_popescu: c. ada-?-musl-static is the standard, either zcx or sjlj is acceptable (mostly based on what threading philosophy one embraces), with an obvious preference for zcx if one doesn't thread.
1899852;1551406226;mircea_popescu;and speaking of that old discussion : let's remind the folk on http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 that there's relatively little point in being part of the lordship if one can't be arsed to at least say they don't wish to comment on some serious problem we run into.
1899853;1551406226;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque
1899854;1551406402;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899816 << if you feel like tinkering with it, by all means ; but it's not liable to magically work just by taking out the takeout. it has to actually do things.
1899855;1551406402;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 20:59 bvt: i can try killing that code to see what happens -- i don't even understand why zcx won't just work, and there is no information on this problem in the whole internet
1899856;1551406466;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/qXpQs#selection-243.1-749.34 <<< holy SHIT worst commit wtf.
1899857;1551406729;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899843 << i dun expect they'll be showing up to 'bring plea' any time soon. instead they're rakin' in the heathen dough just nao.
1899858;1551406729;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 01:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899802 << this ties directly into above. it's not a problem of "these engineers did not do enough". it's not an engineering problem at all. it's 100% political, "these sorry schmucks passed themselves off for an authority they could never possibly be". this'll never wash, and in particular indigence is the worst possible plea they could bring. if they ALSO are poor then THEREFORE even LESS q
1899859;1551406764;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3073 << Loper OS -- X-Ray Microscopy of Symbolics Ivory CPUs.
1899860;1551406847;mircea_popescu;that dun look like glue.
1899861;1551406862;asciilifeform;i have honestly nfi what it is , presently
1899862;1551406877;asciilifeform;it aint film rot, took 2 shots and were ~identical.
1899863;1551406967;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_1.jpg ( via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876538 ) for comparison.
1899864;1551406967;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 18:26 asciilifeform: perma-mirrored at http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amberglint_bolix_2.jpg , ty
1899865;1551407055;mircea_popescu;is the hope that http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/xray/ivory/iron_ivory_die_large.jpg item is not merely noise ?
1899866;1551407077;asciilifeform;pretty sure it's a noise, i.e. one can't usefully milk the circuit from it
1899867;1551407080;asciilifeform;q is, what sorta noise.
1899868;1551407109;mircea_popescu;it's organized tho, i perceive patterns.
1899869;1551407127;asciilifeform;dun look anyffin like the published pic tho.
1899870;1551407234;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, certain streaking (like say 4230 1324 or 4554 1606) seems incompatible with actual circuit layout
1899871;1551407246;mircea_popescu;right. it might be just straight noise.
1899872;1551407257;asciilifeform;betcha it's alumina thermal grease, in there.
1899873;1551407277;asciilifeform;30 yo. alumina.
1899874;1551407322;asciilifeform;compare with the fg xilinx die , the latter has no fancy package, and is entirely homogeneous at 35kV.
1899875;1551407463;asciilifeform;interestingly, there appears to be 0 useful info on the net re how to get these open. ( lotsa crud re opening recent intels, and various dissolvable plastic DIPs, but not applicable )
1899876;1551407538;asciilifeform;( how would cut ? for the tin can, diamond engraving bit on cnc mill will prolly do the job without cutting the bonding wires. for the ceramic -- currently nfi, seems to have 4 anchor posts, prolly these are the ticket )
1899877;1551407736;asciilifeform;for thread-completeness, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876504 << bottom side of the 'tin can' variant.
1899878;1551407736;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 18:04 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix_ivory_pinside.jpg
1899879;1551407757;asciilifeform;loox exactly like the top side of the ceramic one. so entirely possible that ~bottom~ of die is under the can.
1899880;1551407774;asciilifeform;( and that the can per se was added in 'production' model to improve thermal transfer )
1899881;1551407876;*;asciilifeform updated post with link to same.
1899882;1551408129;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re adacorpse's standard & compiler, the marvel aint that it's broken in places, but that it was built at all, and is even largely usable
1899883;1551408149;asciilifeform;it's gotta be the single most functional artifact that particular batch of africans ever put together
1899884;1551408162;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899852 << so far we have signatures on glibc's death warrant from myself and asciilifeform iirc
1899885;1551408162;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 02:10 mircea_popescu: and speaking of that old discussion : let's remind the folk on http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 that there's relatively little point in being part of the lordship if one can't be arsed to at least say they don't wish to comment on some serious problem we run into.
1899886;1551408222;asciilifeform;trinque: i put it in its coffin in 2015, with 'rotor' , and wasn't even aware that there was contemplation of keeping it alive until mircea_popescu asked last mo
1899887;1551408322;trinque;probably there ought to be some euloran folks weighing in, maybe shinohai or someone tells us whether it can be built atop musl
1899888;1551408337;asciilifeform;pretty sure shinohai already built eulora client on musl
1899889;1551408343;trinque;ah neato
1899890;1551408354;asciilifeform;as for server, iirc it's a pure diana_coman matter , and still in the worx
1899891;1551408876;*;asciilifeform brb,meatsys
1899892;1551419066;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?
1899893;1551419081;mircea_popescu;trinque diana_coman similarily fwiu.
1899894;1551426970;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 << i've been building everything using ave1's gcc/gnat which is musl based. i don't see any reason to keep glibc
1899895;1551426970;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque
1899896;1551426971;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 1 day, 8 hours, and 12 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i hate to become 'thread necromancer', but would really like a resolution of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 & the related quandaries some time before i die of old age. plox to comment.
1899897;1551430637;phf;asciilifeform: give me until end of march to resolve it one way or another, feel free to neg rate me then
1899898;1551430987;phf;this really has been a low priority item until i moved to russia, but now i'm stuck in secular hell, so this whole subject elicits only anger and i'd rather something good actually came out of it.
1899899;1551432410;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897636 << as long as i need userspace C code to run, I'll be happy to use musl. it's not bugs-free, but its bugs have very different nature than glibc's. i see no reason for keeping glibc on non-toiletboxes.
1899900;1551432410;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it already worx , afaik, on musl, ave1's gnat shits out strictly musl-static linkage.
1899901;1551432445;bvt;re sjlj/zcx: i guess i'd stick with a variant of c (http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897694): sjlj by default, use zcx only when facing high overhead from sjlj AND where this is possible due to threading model.
1899902;1551432445;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:07 mircea_popescu: c. ada-?-musl-static is the standard, either zcx or sjlj is acceptable (mostly based on what threading philosophy one embraces), with an obvious preference for zcx if one doesn't thread.
1899903;1551432474;bvt;i do not expect to see a lot of exceptions from sjlj
1899904;1551432486;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899820 << will have a look at mes; so far potential deadline -- next weekend.
1899905;1551432486;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 01:26 mircea_popescu: bvt certainly
1899906;1551441398;mircea_popescu;trinque ^
1899907;1551442441;mircea_popescu;bvt how come c btw ?
1899908;1551443100;bvt;mircea_popescu: i guess the message did not parse correctly. i'm not proposing c the programming language; i meant something similar to "option c" from the list of possibilities you outlined in thread http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638
1899909;1551443100;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque
1899910;1551443269;mircea_popescu;oh oh. yeah i c
1899911;1551443290;*;mircea_popescu shall go sleep moar.
1899912;1551443324;mircea_popescu;i see phf's having a blast tho!
1899913;1551445888;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2019-report/ << Qntra -- Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2019 Report
1899914;1551451877;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-19#1898005 -> checked and confirmed: the genesis.vpatch matches precisely the previous one; so at least it's consistent on the same machine with different versions of V
1899915;1551451877;a111;Logged on 2019-02-19 03:57 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896530 << certainly! does it match your last run?
1899916;1551452150;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897733 -> even stronger on this given the recent experiment since I can't see *any* reason for indulging zcx
1899917;1551452150;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:19 diana_coman: to my mind option b has the benefit that it concentrates the effort in the right direction at least
1899918;1551452987;spyked;re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 , specifically glibc is gonna go from my machines once I encuntooate them. it's not yet clear to me how this will impact e.g. apache, which calls dlopen for its loadable modules thing. google didn't turn out anything on the subj either.
1899919;1551452987;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque
1899920;1551453165;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899545 <-- ty, pill applied. tho I don't expect any automated attempts to get the thing occured, only the immediate post-publication 'imbulzeala'
1899921;1551453165;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 20:10 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899484 << i heartily recommend http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-images-no-longer-showing/
1899922;1551453395;spyked;update re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-26#1899440 : it's almost done, I'll document it and post the new archive sometime next week. long story short: the headers/footers are non-standard, so it's taken me a while to find the proper grep recipes.
1899923;1551453395;a111;Logged on 2019-02-26 23:21 asciilifeform: !Q later tell spyked that gutenberg tarball -- didja get a chance to auto-kill all of the header liquishit ? i'd prefer to mirror a flensed copy, the 50kB of 'this text copyright wikitards(tm)(r)' is eyesore
1899924;1551453504;spyked;but after about three semi-automated passes through the texts, I'm fairly confident I got most of the crap out
1899925;1551455003;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899892 << the xray setup is really for the pcb (not done yet, but film is here.) the ic shot is so possibly to figure out where to cut, right nao i have 3 ~different~ packages, so if i cut one and smash it , doesn't tell me anything useful re how to try again, it's a 'measure 7777 times, cut 1ce' situation.
1899926;1551455003;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 05:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you believe you've lived to be doing the xraying to the bolix ?
1899927;1551455079;asciilifeform;next thing there will be a 45 deg. shot, to find what side the die is even on
1899928;1551455126;asciilifeform;the four rivets also of interest, they're transparent at 35kV, but would like to know why they are there, do they actually hold down the lid, or is there also glue etc
1899929;1551455298;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899898 << would be pretty great. i wrote to dks again re the PALs , and re whether he has any moar cpus , dead or alive, to sell, so far no answr
1899930;1551455298;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 09:03 phf: this really has been a low priority item until i moved to russia, but now i'm stuck in secular hell, so this whole subject elicits only anger and i'd rather something good actually came out of it.
1899931;1551455337;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899918 << iirc trinque baked a working musltronic apache at one pt
1899932;1551455337;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 15:09 spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 , specifically glibc is gonna go from my machines once I encuntooate them. it's not yet clear to me how this will impact e.g. apache, which calls dlopen for its loadable modules thing. google didn't turn out anything on the subj either.
1899933;1551455359;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899924 << neato. will mirror when it's baked.
1899934;1551455359;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 15:18 spyked: but after about three semi-automated passes through the texts, I'm fairly confident I got most of the crap out
1899935;1551458128;trinque;asciilifeform: nginx
1899936;1551460155;asciilifeform;trinque: aaah
1899937;1551460192;asciilifeform;as i understand various folx use gnarly custom apache ( iirc mircea_popescu definitely ) and so it'll have to be massaged also
1899938;1551461594;asciilifeform;re those rivets : earlier this yr i tried to find where else used; turns out , hp ( who fabbed the bolix ) in late '80s also used on certain of their 'pa-risc' items, e.g. http://www.cpushack.com/gallery-1/hp/hp1fe4-0010-pa7300lc-b/
1899939;1551461608;asciilifeform;might be worthwhile sacrificial test subject, if at some pt i can dig one up
1899940;1551461731;asciilifeform;http://www.cpushack.com/chippics/HP/HP1SC6_B.html << another instance.
1899941;1551461945;asciilifeform;http://brainstones.narod.ru/collection/hp_pa_7300lc_1fe4_0002.jpg << to round off thread, better shot, of both sides of 7300, quite bolixesque physical package.
1899942;1551461987;diana_coman;in good news, it seems that the static-only ave1-gnat builds itself fine (with the tarballs ofc so ultimately still relying on the corpse but at least that's frozen and the whole thing is NOT relying anymore on a deployed adacore)
1899943;1551462029;asciilifeform;diana_coman: neato. tho i did find that the arm build won't build a x86 gnat ( still afaik mystery )
1899944;1551462047;diana_coman;re sjlj and zcx and apache - the current RK use would be the only iffy current situation re banning zcx
1899945;1551462064;diana_coman;quite a bunch of issues on the arm it seems, yes
1899946;1551462118;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in the derpity butthurt files http://archive.is/nomDv
1899947;1551462540;diana_coman;in other lolz, #musl has a "feepbot"
1899948;1551462631;asciilifeform;diana_coman: what does it do ?
1899949;1551463447;diana_coman;it cites the title + a few words from the page linked
1899950;1551463484;diana_coman;at least that's what I saw so far
1899951;1551463589;diana_coman;I was curious re activity @ musl so I joined the channel: the topic is same as http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188244
1899952;1551463589;a111;Logged on 2015-07-05 15:04 asciilifeform: 'Topic for #musl is: http://www.musl-libc.org | Ask questions; treat others with respect; stop off-topic discussions for musl questions; do not publish logs; no sexism, homophobia, or other forms of asshattery.'
1899953;1551463623;asciilifeform;lol full fungal bloom
1899954;1551464671;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/usd-woes-benjis-outnumber-singles-and-almost-entirely-outside-us-borders/ << Qntra -- USD Woes: Benjis Outnumber Singles And Almost Entirely Outside US Borders
1899955;1551465213;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/oscar-screener-leaks-hit-new-low-as-apathy-with-hollywood-output-continues-to-grow/ << Qntra -- Oscar Screener Leaks Hit New Low As Apathy With Hollywood Output Continues To Grow
1899956;1551470375;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/086-s-xml.html << The Tar Pit -- An XML parser for Common Lisp programs
1899957;1551474782;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899937 << item of least concern currently, pretty much the only public use for a toiletbox is "web proxy the republic".
1899958;1551474782;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 17:09 asciilifeform: as i understand various folx use gnarly custom apache ( iirc mircea_popescu definitely ) and so it'll have to be massaged also
1899959;1551474815;mircea_popescu;not that i don't admire efforts of people trying to make better web proxies ; but i think those efforts are slightly misdirected and grossly premature.
1899960;1551477222;asciilifeform;defo premature, esp. in light of prospect of e.g. ditching tcp
1899961;1551477265;*;asciilifeform suspects that at some pt 'proggies for interfacing to heathendom' will become 'genre'
1899962;1551477402;mircea_popescu;tcp, prospect of "wtf, mysql, postgres", prospect of wtf we do with xml, prospect of cl-php-replacement, prospects galore.
1899963;1551477473;mircea_popescu;ftr, cuz this is interesting from a cultural history perspective : the "web", as an item in the socio-conceptual space, died ~with assange~, and not with wikipedia.
1899964;1551477625;mircea_popescu;at its origin, it was envisaged as this cvasi-magical "perfect systematic solution to a large set of previously ununderstood problems". part and parcel of this, the (in retrospect) ridiculous blather of the wikitard as to the "human knowledge" and other http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850928 slash huxleyan nonsense, "transhumanism" blablabla.
1899965;1551477625;a111;Logged on 2018-09-17 17:15 mircea_popescu: i never perceived him as anything other than or besides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM-2030 character.
1899966;1551477669;mircea_popescu;obviously wikipedia did not live up to any of those promises. but then again, the airplane, or the radio also did not live up to the hallucinant "promises" as perceived by early "idea men" "working" on the topics.
1899967;1551477688;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, airplane, or radio, unlike "the web" or "the ipod" or "the smartphone" have definite utility.
1899968;1551477723;*;asciilifeform sees it as having been ~stillborn to begin with : ersatz pseudo-hypertext, with broken links, inability to link to fragments in any reliable way, megatonne of hacks req'd to overcome these while introducing novel and intractable breakages, etc
1899969;1551477728;mircea_popescu;the whole wikileaks debacle demonstrated however not just that the web is not a thing, but rather that the libertard concept of "civil society" is actually ~a myth~ rather than an object
1899970;1551477751;mircea_popescu;much like the much earlier version libertard's notion of "god" or the classical libertard's notion of "freedom"
1899971;1551477769;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it was, from a technologically perspective, about on par with the canvas-wing biplane.
1899972;1551477782;asciilifeform;imho closer to the wing-flappy 'airplane'.
1899973;1551477788;mircea_popescu;ie, yes stillborn from birth, from an engineering pov. but these can and actually are fixed, if there's ideological substance.
1899974;1551477794;mircea_popescu;the problem is, there was no ideological substance.
1899975;1551477800;asciilifeform;superficially similar to working airplane, but actually dead end tech
1899976;1551477812;mircea_popescu;i guess we'll have to disagree on this point.
1899977;1551477844;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's other pt, tho, i gotta entirely agree with -- the item is a stupidity summer
1899978;1551477883;mircea_popescu;speaking of a minor point above : mp tried to find slut an ipod, so she can listen to music while woprking out. mp discovered ~ipod item no longer exists~, not at used electronic shops, NOT AT POND SHOPS.
1899979;1551477892;asciilifeform;( i.e. accumulates stupid , from all possible inputs , rather than somehow factoring out )
1899980;1551477903;mircea_popescu;mp was very confused. then mp was de-confused, by seller in stall in mall : here, this tiny little thing, it's an mp3 player.
1899981;1551477912;mircea_popescu;"o holy shit, THIS is why ipod no longer exists -- it never fucking did."
1899982;1551477935;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you wouldn't want one if you found one . they're the orig 'you must crapple to upload files' item.
1899983;1551477980;mircea_popescu;because it never fucking did. it was temporarily "a thing", in the sense of, hyped up ~name~ for a category, about as inconsequential as whatever other name.
1899984;1551477986;mircea_popescu;"Tucker mentioned possible Oscar nomination for the script, more than $200M at the box office and revolutionizing Hollywood." sorta thing.
1899985;1551478000;mircea_popescu;ipod was a thing like ipad was a thing, or like groupon was a thing : no sort of thing
1899986;1551478023;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was an actual box, that was sold for something like decade. but again nuffin you'd want to try an' operate.
1899987;1551478030;mircea_popescu;quite.
1899988;1551478037;asciilifeform;world's saddest mp3 player, possibly second only to sony's
1899989;1551478062;mircea_popescu;which is my point here : ipod is not a thing to be, much like "american cuisine" is not a thing to be.
1899990;1551478084;*;asciilifeform at one time owned 'mp3 player', was this brick that connected to parallel port...
1899991;1551478103;mircea_popescu;i had this two-battery, no port radio as a 12yo boy.
1899992;1551478140;mircea_popescu;https://www.cyberculture.ro/2010/12/13/craciunurile-mele-radio-ric-si-pijamale/ << item.
1899993;1551478149;*;asciilifeform has sovok pocket radio also ! was pretty great, actually , ran on 9v, and covered in troo leather, was a joy to hold in hands. 
1899994;1551478162;mircea_popescu;and yes, back when mp was 12, that thing was the coolest of pubescent sex paraphenalia. YOU COULD OFFER A GIRL THE OTHER EARBUD!!11
1899995;1551478197;asciilifeform;ha loox like i had mircea_popescu's pictured earbud. it's the only thing that worked with my crystal set
1899996;1551478233;mircea_popescu;notice if you would the very star wars - esque look of the imagological artefact associated.
1899997;1551478253;mircea_popescu;the cable of that earbud doing that rounded corners thing ? totally.
1899998;1551478284;asciilifeform;vehehery '80s 'robotic fyootoor' eh
1899999;1551478296;mircea_popescu;yup.
1900000;1551478698;mircea_popescu;https://www.officer.com/on-the-street/body-armor-protection/blog/11537485/summer-stupidity << actually not even terrible "it sucks to be a cop, all you hear all day are idiots transparently lying to you" pov blog.
1900001;1551478804;asciilifeform;'no one has yet created body armor with air conditioning built in' << iirc this was actually commissioned during usg's iraq adventure. ( or at the very least, a golden toilet contract was issued for it, i have nfi what the accompanying theatrical prop looked like, and whether anyone bothered to produce )
1900002;1551478878;mircea_popescu;only way to get ac in body armor is to go full hydraulic walking suit.
1900003;1551478893;mircea_popescu;i actually expect this will be a thing, did you see the very good walking robots they have now ?
1900004;1551478898;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-26#1072977 << oblig
1900005;1551478898;a111;Logged on 2015-03-26 20:43 asciilifeform: one to break doors, gates; one to threaten bystanders, if any, with 'accidental' fire; one to shoot; and perhaps one with a cage that arrestee -might- be permitted to surrender into, if the bot's voice-recognition system works and if orders included a possible live capture
1900006;1551478904;asciilifeform;^ re 'fyootoor of usg.polizei'
1900007;1551479067;BingoBoingo;The police here are so much more pleasant than back home. Even in small town USA(TM)(R) new recruit cops would stop me during late night/early morning walks to ask what I was doing. Here if the police even care to address me, nothing more needs to be said than the traditional exchange of "todo bien? todo bien."
1900008;1551479081;BingoBoingo;Or if I am feeling fancy "todo bien, gracias"
1900009;1551479130;mircea_popescu;the deeply "big zone bipedals ain't more human than any other cattle" feel of the pice is indicative. not of "police brutality", tho.
1900010;1551479134;mircea_popescu;they['re fucking cattle, what.
1900011;1551479283;BingoBoingo;Everyone in the US I've met that worked a "public contact/customer service" position has the same epiphany. None of them think humanity is bad or democracy unworkable, they fatlogic that everyone else is exactly as same age/gender/human as they are.
1900012;1551479284;mircea_popescu;https://www.officer.com/training-careers/hiring-promotion/news/21070244/seattle-may-offer-15000-hiring-bonuses-to-attract-police-officers << in other lulz, http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/
1900013;1551479305;mircea_popescu;"Durkan proposed the incentive program last month, saying Seattle needs to jump into the nationwide competition for experienced police officers. Her plan came at a time when historically low unemployment and retirements of baby boomer officers, combined with high housing costs and a negative image of policing nationwide, are said to be driving competition for recruits regionally and nationally."
1900014;1551479331;mircea_popescu;potheads "policing" potheads shall be a comedy goldmine of lulz and tears in the not so distant future.
1900015;1551479335;mircea_popescu;millenials ftw!
1900016;1551479356;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: atm they filter, sorta, by hiring 100% burned-out iraq hands
1900017;1551479370;mircea_popescu;that was 2005.
1900018;1551479374;mircea_popescu;15 years ago, alfie.
1900019;1551479387;mircea_popescu;atm they hire ~anything with a pulse.
1900020;1551479443;BingoBoingo;Well they do ask more of of some demographics compared to others in the name of equalitit
1900021;1551479455;asciilifeform;it's the traditional work for aged-out usg cannon fodder tho, for decades nao
1900022;1551479498;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Not enough age out cannon fodder left. They are filling up the USG tech jobs with their clearances.
1900023;1551479539;mircea_popescu;https://www.cyberculture.ro/blog/wp-content/uploads/ric3-schema-tehnica.jpg << 1980s warsaw-pact style foss!
1900024;1551479570;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i found a buncha these, when http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895632
1900025;1551479570;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 01:27 asciilifeform: it's funny , when asciilifeform went to 'museum of communism' in timis, pawed through buncha ancient lulzlit there, and photo'd 'a la minox' to read through laters and chew on the 'limba de lemn'
1900026;1551479576;asciilifeform;made for some pretty lulzy reading on the airplane
1900027;1551479577;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's no such thing left. i know it's difficult to conceptualize, but it's nevertheless true. there is no such thing as an us army.
1900028;1551479592;mircea_popescu;if korea decided to invade, and somehow managed to land, korea would just jail the president & congress and that's all.
1900029;1551479597;mircea_popescu;there's nobody left.
1900030;1551479626;mircea_popescu;back in vietnam, they had a fucking DRAFT (and still lost)
1900031;1551479645;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: maybe i slept through it, but did a plague kill off the midwestern farm boys who obediently 'die for the motherland'(tm)(r) or wut
1900032;1551479657;mircea_popescu;today they can't summon 50 people to go to venezuela, as soldiers. and back in http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+mosul lulz days, they couldn't scare up 500.
1900033;1551479671;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: PnoHes killed the farm boys
1900034;1551479677;mircea_popescu;die nothing. they'll sit in ac containers and "train" or w/e blather.
1900035;1551479685;mircea_popescu;but they will not fucking die, are you kidding me ?!
1900036;1551479697;mircea_popescu;their real value hasn't come up yet! they can't fucking die!
1900037;1551479750;mircea_popescu;if you're willing to feed and clothe and billet them to play video games all day and totally not take their smartphone to red zone, they'll do it. you can call them astronauts or soldiers or whatever you want (as long as it's not stupid fucking cunts or anything like that).
1900038;1551479782;mircea_popescu;but that's exactly as far as it goes. http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-123.521-123.556 and that's all.
1900039;1551479804;*;asciilifeform at one time did work that put'im in contact with these folx. met a d00d who, convincingly, described playing 'call of duty: iraq' on... lappy, in actual iraq
1900040;1551479878;mircea_popescu;the moron that "accidentally got shot" during the bitcoin-somethingawful "debates" of yore was playing eve up to the very moment of taking one up the ass.
1900041;1551479890;asciilifeform;apropos of nuffin : mircea_popescu can you think of any reason why laue diffraction wouldn't work on a ic die ? seems like nobody ever fessed up to having tried. what am i missing
1900042;1551479913;mircea_popescu;and he died exactly as per [http://trilema.com/2016/the-next-generation/][the manual].
1900043;1551479957;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-27#773176 << subj
1900044;1551479957;a111;Logged on 2014-07-27 21:29 asciilifeform: if i recall, last words were 'enemy is at the gates. they've opened fire, oh shi....'
1900045;1551479959;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i ~suspect~ without having done the math that the doped nature of the si crystal makes the picture too noisy to be usable.
1900046;1551479973;mircea_popescu;but afaik this hasn't been seriously tried since diana_coman did it.
1900047;1551479975;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that 'noise' is sorta whole point. distinguish the dopants.
1900048;1551479979;mircea_popescu;(and since she's not done it, well...)
1900049;1551479985;asciilifeform;oh hm diana_coman did it ?
1900050;1551479987;*;asciilifeform would luvv to read
1900051;1551479994;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but you don't get to distinguish ~one from another~.
1900052;1551480007;mircea_popescu;ie you end up with a "there be dopants" haze.
1900053;1551480028;mircea_popescu;crystallography generally works poorly on microfractured crystals, which is what this'd be.
1900054;1551480040;asciilifeform;you'd need a monochromatic beam (i.e. not what's in asciilifeform's brutal machine, naturally) but can't see why not in abstract worx
1900055;1551480041;mircea_popescu;but again, i've not sat down with maths for this, just first pass "you got any suspicions ?" thing.
1900056;1551480076;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform see, the refracted beams also interact.
1900057;1551480084;asciilifeform;they do
1900058;1551480108;*;asciilifeform worked for a while with crystallographers and their output, but in 'traditional' domain, nuffin pertaining to semiconductor
1900059;1551480115;mircea_popescu;no, i'm saying, this is the problem. if you don't have sufficient crystalline surface to provide separation, you end up with the microequivalent of a disco ball.
1900060;1551480131;asciilifeform;possibly
1900061;1551480142;mircea_popescu;ie, fun but no more.
1900062;1551480150;asciilifeform;i find the howling vacuum when looked 'who tried this' suspicious, tho.
1900063;1551480158;mircea_popescu;can't argue with you there.
1900064;1551480167;mircea_popescu;but it's the web, you know, instant access to all human knowledge.
1900065;1551480174;asciilifeform;lolledge
1900066;1551480972;mircea_popescu;such http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188100 lulz!
1900067;1551480972;a111;Logged on 2015-07-05 08:22 mircea_popescu: heh check it out, mark karpeles idling in #musl.
1900068;1551481456;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889862 slash http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-08#948046 lulz : the dork i used above for a source for the commie radio pictures (not that he originates them, they actually come from http://www.latrecut.ro/2006/05/ric-stramoshul-ipod-ului/ which is significantlly better contextually, but I was lazy) not only passes himself as a "Ministrul Cyberculturii | Recenzii, cronici, cr
1900069;1551481456;a111;Logged on 2019-01-25 17:05 mircea_popescu: in any case, in 2011, as in 2001, as in 2021 i can say "academia romana keks" or http://trilema.com/2011/stimata-academie/ whatever ; but they can't say "trilema.com", because holy shit.
1900070;1551481456;a111;Logged on 2014-12-08 05:33 mircea_popescu: "Sunt fondatorul uneia din cele mai mari retele de bloguri de nisa din Romania (Stepout Media), cu siteuri precum: www.construimimperii.ro," i am the founder of one of the biggest niche networks in romania, with sites such as webuildempires
1900071;1551481456;mircea_popescu;iptomonede, opinii" but even manages to write [https://www.cyberculture.ro/2015/08/07/carte-maladia-lui-eminescu-eugen-simion/][a piece on] the celebrated http://trilema.com/2011/romania-cea-de-basm-partea-i/ item (four years later) without somehow managing to at all EVEN MENTION let alone fucking address the whole reason public funds were even misdirected towards printing that (meanwhile melted down) piece of crap.
1900072;1551481481;mircea_popescu;romanian bloggers, i swear. showing up years late to a party they can't even describe.
1900073;1551481531;mircea_popescu;there's this iconic moment at the peak of "caritas" (cluj-based MMM pyramid) where an old man in traditional peasant garb asked me on a bridge "if i know where's this place where they give money for free".
1900074;1551481549;mircea_popescu;i retorted to him that if by this age he hasn't yet figured out such a place doesn't exist, there's no helping him.
1900075;1551481567;mircea_popescu;and yet, i keep encountering this apparently archetipical romanian -- coming up late to a party he can't even describe.
1900076;1551481609;asciilifeform;that's how fresh-off-the-plow peasant sees city always, neh -- 'where money for free'. not so much leap from that to this.
1900077;1551481621;mircea_popescu;but "the minister of cyberculture" dood.
1900078;1551481683;asciilifeform;those, them'd be the top of that particular mmm pyramid, neh. they show up and shown 'yes indeed money for phree, but only if you can get 9000 rubes to show up for erry 1 of you, and deposit penny to play'
1900079;1551481780;mircea_popescu;eh, we're still at the http://trilema.com/2010/extemporal-la-venerologie/#comment-33269 moment.
1900080;1551485990;asciilifeform;in other negative results , 'Fuji Super HR-T' film dun budge 1 whit under 'Cinestill DF96' developer. tho in principle oughta.
1900081;1551490958;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/rome-open-city/ << Trilema -- Rome, Open City
1900082;1551491223;asciilifeform;via mircea_popescu's upstack : http://www.latrecut.ro/category/jocurijucarii/jocuri-de-masa/ << holyfuq, ceausescuine 'monopoly'
1900083;1551493150;mircea_popescu;oya.
1900084;1551500237;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform btw, re rotaku club : ever seen http://ossasepia.com/2011/10/03/bicicleta-mitza-si-printul-soseta-de-sirata/ ? diana_coman being quite lyrical!
1900085;1551517052;diana_coman;meanwhile the sock fell off the internets and the bike moved or something so almost none of the links in there work anymore
1900086;1551545711;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in Qntraments http://qntra.net/2019/03/usd-woes-benjis-outnumber-singles-and-almost-entirely-outside-us-borders/#comment-125065
1900087;1551547603;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/canada-begins-process-of-extraditing-abducted-huawei-cfo-to-us/ << Qntra -- Canada Begins Process Of Extraditing Abducted Huawei CFO To US
1900088;1551548087;mircea_popescu;diana_coman isn't it how it always goes... most of the "internet population" populating (by its own lights) the place sports a life expectancy insufficient to justify the genetic outlay of the average mouse.
1900089;1551548126;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo o ya, empire lost monetary control decade+ ago.
1900090;1551548184;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: We've flirted with that fact in the logs, and the story making the headline isn't earth shattering news, but... Gotta have something to link for that fact
1900091;1551548205;mircea_popescu;keksy comment, too.
1900092;1551548206;BingoBoingo;That there are more C-notes than singles and almost all of them are abroad
1900093;1551548369;mircea_popescu;i meant on qntra.
1900094;1551548424;BingoBoingo;Well sure
1900095;1551548438;BingoBoingo;Jamie Dimon's master plan
1900096;1551548469;mircea_popescu;"i haven't been doing my reading back in 2013-2014. this totally means the shit i don't understand in 2019 is fascinating to everyone else and important, rite guise ?!"
1900097;1551548469;BingoBoingo;">USG uses printed money to dump Bitcoin" never mind that does the other thing
1900098;1551548532;*;mircea_popescu will now write moar scandalous things, since the "civil society" choked long ago, and on "socks and cocks!!!" of all things.
1900099;1551548610;BingoBoingo;Don't forget the cock socks which they ignored in 2015 when the fork wars were derping up http://trilema.com/2015/prophylaxis/
1900100;1551548629;asciilifeform;i suppose loch ness monster also choked (perhaps on cock?) long ago, and hence absent..
1900101;1551548700;BingoBoingo;I though Nessie died from anti-freeze poisoning because British cars leave piss puddles like puppies
1900102;1551548742;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform point being, if "the powers that be" burn their powder on little things, what will they do when teh big guns come out.
1900103;1551548760;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-02#1900087 << possibly i'm thick, but i dunget why beijing doesn't catch a coupla dozen usg daughters and send'em to washington 1 finger at a time until the matter's resolved.
1900104;1551548760;a111;Logged on 2019-03-02 17:26 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/03/canada-begins-process-of-extraditing-abducted-huawei-cfo-to-us/ << Qntra -- Canada Begins Process Of Extraditing Abducted Huawei CFO To US
1900105;1551548769;mircea_popescu;hence the "HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW!!!!" meme
1900106;1551548796;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because ~nobody wants to be stuck with the cost of "administering" the shithole.
1900107;1551548797;BingoBoingo;Well so far they have been catching a lot more Canadian drug traffickers this year
1900108;1551548822;mircea_popescu;also i suspect BingoBoingo has it, the chinese have no notion of individual.
1900109;1551548844;asciilifeform;'cockroach civilization' eh
1900110;1551548960;BingoBoingo;Well they have the socia credit thing which acknowledges that there are enumerable bipedal units, but... how do you do soft power from such a position? You start enforcing against once tolerated foreign nuissances until the white worms stop being so acutely pestillential
1900111;1551549068;asciilifeform;imho the correct pill was to take e.g. intel ceo and coupla board members to beijing and publicly ling chi.
1900112;1551549071;asciilifeform;but possibly i'm thick.
1900113;1551549110;asciilifeform;( the 48-cut variant of ling chi. 1 cut per day of white devil intransigence . )
1900114;1551549179;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: You are thinking mohs surgery. Start thinking Chinese medicine instead.
1900115;1551549193;asciilifeform;ling chi is best chinese medicine.
1900116;1551549208;BingoBoingo;There's ritual involved. Can't start cutting right away.
1900117;1551549209;asciilifeform;( 'human pig'(tm)(r) close runner-up )
1900118;1551549231;BingoBoingo;Gotta manage spirits first
1900119;1551549375;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-02#1900086 << not any kind of news, neh, >> http://qntra.net/2014/11/buterins-waterfall-a-likbez/
1900120;1551549375;a111;Logged on 2019-03-02 16:55 BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in Qntraments http://qntra.net/2019/03/usd-woes-benjis-outnumber-singles-and-almost-entirely-outside-us-borders/#comment-125065
1900121;1551551782;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, for instance -- a clear display of usgistani impotence could perhaps put an end to the paper charade.
1900122;1551551788;mircea_popescu;the chinese are the world's largest holders.
1900123;1551551829;mircea_popescu;basically, the difference between you asciilifeform and chinese bureaucracy is that you're psychologically very dependent on teh usg.
1900124;1551551854;mircea_popescu;to you, showing them their place, putting mommy naked on her knees, carries a very high subjective value.
1900125;1551551857;mircea_popescu;to the chinese... meh.
1900126;1551552766;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/sieg-heil/ << Trilema -- Sieg heil...
1900127;1551557063;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i admit, mine is entirely a 'exterminate the brutes' pov
1900128;1551557103;mircea_popescu;well, it is conceivable the little yellow men have other priorities.
1900129;1551557120;asciilifeform;entirely other, and much above my paygrade to say what
1900130;1551557128;mircea_popescu;mice similarly don't seek out teh elephant nests of do bloody murder.
1900131;1551557199;mircea_popescu;the one important point, to my eyes, is that they don't seem to have much of the "face" problem. somehow. thirty years ago the whole fucking country'd have been up in arms, "give back our cunt!!!"
1900132;1551557209;mircea_popescu;usg ~still~ has issues in pakistan over that doctor chick.
1900133;1551557244;asciilifeform;this is much in line with historic asian pov tho. 'there's $maxint of us, what's 1 less'
1900134;1551557246;mircea_popescu;how the hell sinocommie party manages to have such excellent control is a mystery, but really, brejnev had less smooth a reigh,
1900135;1551557271;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform absolutely not at all, lotta problems historically with kidnapped cunt & associated "losing face"
1900136;1551557288;asciilifeform;with chinese ? i guess i missed
1900137;1551557326;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1900138;1551557491;asciilifeform;Fotze Konzentrationslager << a+++
1900139;1551557513;asciilifeform;just when i thought the genre died with usenet, mircea_popescu resurrects!
1900140;1551558524;mircea_popescu;ehehe
1900141;1551558571;mircea_popescu;i think it's one of the better pieces ever penned in the style ; feel free to put up some of your usenet selections, i'm curious.
1900142;1551559009;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/forbes-catches-the-ripple-scam-six-years-later/ << Qntra -- Forbes Catches The RIPple Scam Six Years Later
1900143;1551559094;BingoBoingo;^ In the news of the slow
1900144;1551559528;mircea_popescu;ethereum next, then mit, then "mission district", then ...
1900145;1551559610;BingoBoingo;They might even catch up to 2019 by 2034
1900146;1551561393;mircea_popescu;go a-team!
1900147;1551569646;mircea_popescu;diana_coman btw, can i get you to "update posts set post_content = REPLACE(post_content, 'http://polimedia.us/trilema/', 'http://trilema.com/');" ?
1900148;1551570007;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in wanna-be half-republics, http://archive.is/OFEPa#selection-35.1-35.259
1900149;1551571191;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/03/02/prototype-pizarro-marketing-payloads/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Prototype Pizarro Marketing Payloads
1900150;1551574314;feedbot;http://blog.mod6.net/2019/03/a-cuntoo-adventure-part-two/ << mod6's Blog -- A Cuntoo Adventure Part Two
1900151;1551583924;mircea_popescu;mod6 well done on fixing it! and yes it makes sense, first sata is sda, 2nd is sdb and so following.
1900152;1551584001;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo you're polishing the wrong end of the spear. with 0 experience it's impossible to meaningfully improve this "payload". make two even if they're made throwing darts ; a/b rtest them ; pick one, make a.1 / a.2 in response whichever you picked, test those, and so following.
1900153;1551584012;mircea_popescu;it's an ~empirical~ process ; !!!!NOT!!! a theoretical one.
1900154;1551584019;mircea_popescu;in fact -- almost NOTHING is EVER a theoretical process.
1900155;1551586608;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> in fact -- almost NOTHING is EVER a theoretical process. << I'm going to decorate with this point so it gets through the skull case
1900156;1551603927;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-02#1900147 -> done
1900157;1551603927;a111;Logged on 2019-03-02 23:34 mircea_popescu: diana_coman btw, can i get you to "update posts set post_content = REPLACE(post_content, 'http://polimedia.us/trilema/', 'http://trilema.com/');" ?
1900158;1551631797;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-iii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part III.
1900159;1551634560;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/worlds-top-bridge-player-suspended-over-doping/ << Qntra -- World's Top Bridge Player Suspended Over Doping???
1900160;1551634788;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile, found in the mines: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dCD7E/?raw=true
1900161;1551635773;mod6;thanks mircea_popescu!
1900162;1551640054;mircea_popescu;ty diana_coman !
1900163;1551640448;BingoBoingo;In local developments the growshop across the street which made a big point of paying and having a booth at the expocannabis appears to either be shuttering or moving. Conference monkeying for the win!
1900164;1551640495;mircea_popescu;maybe it's moving to be closer to the conference grounds.
1900165;1551640587;mircea_popescu;for child porn completitude, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Imposici%C3%B3n_del_Tois%C3%B3n_de_Oro_a_la_princesa_de_Asturias_04.jpg
1900166;1551640823;mircea_popescu;(you will indulge me in observing that forcing 13yo girlies one's fixated on to [trilema.com/2011/voi-puneti-fetele-sa-zica-ceva/][read certain things] is not substantially different from forcing them to [http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-satisfyingly-have-sex-with-a-girl-under-12/][do certain things] ; especially if the fixation has entirely nothing to do with the particular little girl in question, but stems from more general
1900167;1551640824;mircea_popescu;considerations.)
1900168;1551641322;asciilifeform;re balls, http://qntra.net/2019/03/worlds-top-bridge-player-suspended-over-doping/#comment-125163
1900169;1551641443;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: replied
1900170;1551641475;BingoBoingo;He's got balls attached. Their just dormant.
1900171;1551641518;mircea_popescu;#metoo lol
1900172;1551641520;asciilifeform;rly the old chinese system was moar honest, where they took their balls off right off the bat, when they signed up to serve the reich, and put in a jar, 'proof of work'
1900173;1551641662;mircea_popescu;quite, yes.
1900174;1551641698;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: replied^2.
1900175;1551641721;mircea_popescu;lotta things chinese did lot more honest. the black lotus retirement plan way the fuck more effectual, secure, reliable AND PLEASANT than https://i.eprci.net/thorazine-ad ; not to mention the chinese didn't give it to children.
1900176;1551641833;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qB3xq/?raw=true << oblig blacklotus
1900177;1551641968;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Replied again, but it isn't the game engines killing anything. It's that every "federation" and "governing body" that's captured competitive pursuits is femstate uterine scar tissue.
1900178;1551642118;BingoBoingo;Ever since Madame Kenesaw Mountain Landis took the business out of baseball, its been downhill everywhere. Olympic fappery is simply toxic.
1900179;1551642355;asciilifeform;for their part, the dope makers also drop the ball : it's perfectly possible to make a usable dope that does its thing and breaks down into unremarkables; the assassination poisons people had the right idea in the 1920s
1900180;1551642391;mircea_popescu;this kipling piece's quite good!
1900181;1551642396;asciilifeform;ikr
1900182;1551642422;asciilifeform;1 of his best, imho
1900183;1551644299;mircea_popescu;incidentally, now that they've made pot "legal", the chandoo-khanas where the niggers go when ?
1900184;1551644318;mircea_popescu;evidently best way out for most of extant dreamers, PLUS IT WOULD SUPPORT THE TAX REVENUE!!!1
1900185;1551644363;mircea_popescu;wouldn't it be ironic if that's the future, chinese-sponsored usg-"law"-immune extrateritorial teahouses in every county.
1900186;1551644393;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: today. ( but naturally not classic opium, given as it cannot be patented, but usg.strange, and 'prescription' )
1900187;1551644410;mircea_popescu;not bad.
1900188;1551644434;mircea_popescu;evidently our colonial experiment failed. depopulation, and recolonization manifestly necessary.
1900189;1551644463;asciilifeform;( iirc we had thread, re how ~100% of usg.psychopharma 100y consists of 'let's reimplement 2000 y.o. plant dopes in patentable form' )
1900190;1551644539;mircea_popescu;add a methyl, take a methyl, it's all in good fun.
1900191;1551644544;asciilifeform;and BingoBoingo has a reportage re how double-digit % of usa proles are hooked on various synthetic opium
1900192;1551644646;*;asciilifeform did depressing tour of duty in 'add a methyl, take a methyl' for the reich, but fortunately on the theoretical end, not the eating end
1900193;1551644669;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> incidentally, now that they've made pot "legal", the chandoo-khanas where the niggers go when ? << They've had theirs. The next step is something similar for the dreamers though the dreamers seem to be breaking towards approximating the same in their own squalor holes.
1900194;1551644708;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the 'dreamers' have been living in their ganja dens since '60s, what
1900195;1551644763;asciilifeform;srsly asciilifeform lives in a nowhere uni town, and there are no fewer than 4 shops on 1 street selling hooka, hoses, etc
1900196;1551644766;mircea_popescu;problem with pot is that it doesn't kill them nearly fast enough.
1900197;1551644770;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The sixties didn't have contemporary ganja nor the contemporary mass of dreamers, though the baby boomer generation was pretty dreamer fucked
1900198;1551644780;asciilifeform;it's the evening's entertainment for these folx. plug in the hoses, fire up the coals, turn on tv for background
1900199;1551644783;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> problem with pot is that it doesn't kill them nearly fast enough. << True
1900200;1551644835;asciilifeform;the opium was banned specifically cuz kills the 'dreamer' too quickly. they wanted live konsoomer / mortgage monkey gotta live at least his 30y of mortgage etc
1900201;1551644985;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> it's the evening's entertainment for these folx. plug in the hoses, fire up the coals, turn on tv for background << The hookah/hose thing is a poor delivery device for pot. mircea_popescu's centerpiece that shoots deep into the lungs is the tool for pot. The hookah's more of a high margin impulse purchase trap that doesn't draw the shops aggro like most consumer US stuff is.
1900202;1551645019;mircea_popescu;well, some people like the eastern tobacco.
1900203;1551645030;BingoBoingo;Well, this is the US
1900204;1551645057;*;mircea_popescu found a one inch cut of vanilla bean in his UAE-made "best shisha tobacco in the world". it tasted as fresh and great as one from here, even joked with the girls, "full circle for this guy"
1900205;1551645067;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: my (admittedly nonexpert) understanding is that hooka is used for what in asciilifeform's alcoholic orcistan is referred to as 'kvasing', i.e. slow intake over whole day/night
1900206;1551645077;asciilifeform;rather than 1shot brain blow
1900207;1551645077;mircea_popescu;very far cry from the "only I wish
1900208;1551645078;mircea_popescu;Tsin-ling wouldn’t put bran into the Black Smoke."
1900209;1551645105;BingoBoingo;Eastern tobacco involves ritual and some trivial amount of work. Most US hookah purchases I've seen end up on a shelf as another piece of kitsch after just a few uses.
1900210;1551645157;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: hooka worx best with ~servant~ who fills/empties, i suspect
1900211;1551645169;BingoBoingo;Another thing the US is short of
1900212;1551645171;mircea_popescu;topless, chimed, it's a fine luxury item.
1900213;1551645186;asciilifeform;it is lulzy, in this here shithole they banned 'smoke in restaurant'. but folx still want hooka. so effect was, the hooka dens no longer serve food, nao only smoke
1900214;1551645210;asciilifeform;you walk in, and smoke thick enuff to walk on
1900215;1551645274;asciilifeform;folx on cushions, brains liquifying, quite kiplingesque picture aside from the lappies/pnojes
1900216;1551645330;asciilifeform;( Officially , in the hookas, only tobacco + various flavour crud. but possibly on west coast, also ganja )
1900217;1551645451;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you won't believe what else UAE-made : (if the crate is to be believed) -- that xray film.
1900218;1551645467;mircea_popescu;i'll believe. more sense than qatar, for sure.
1900219;1551645485;asciilifeform;i still have difficulty swallowing that they can make anyffin moar complicated than camel saddle.
1900220;1551645502;asciilifeform;( supposedly even scimitar for beheading, is suffering shortages, the last troo smiths died )
1900221;1551645590;BingoBoingo;Well, ecuador is allegedly running out of the people who can make hats for mircea_popescu. This is a problem in every field.
1900222;1551646503;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/03/inconsiderate-considerations-or-a-tiny-euloran-dataset-on-blueprints/ << Ossasepia -- Inconsiderate Considerations or a Tiny Euloran Dataset on Blueprints
1900223;1551663126;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/03/04/pizarro-march-4th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro March 4th Update
1900224;1551669668;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3116 << Loper OS -- X-Ray Large-Format Kindergarten.
1900225;1551669712;asciilifeform;^ last 1 in this vein for a spell ; asciilifeform is returning to previous unfinished bizniss
1900226;1551677291;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/03/04/ham-is-a-scam/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Ham Is A Scam
1900227;1551681913;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/qntra-sqntr-february-2019-statement/ << Trilema -- Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2019 Statement
1900228;1551707427;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-05#1781635 holy shit, https://www.pulte.com/homes/virginia/northern-virginia
1900229;1551707427;a111;Logged on 2018-02-05 20:11 asciilifeform: relatedly, i recently hung up a 'premium, high end' corkboard, several square metres, and it turns out that 1) maybe half the depth is actual cork, the rest -- cardboard 2) no other kind is available
1900230;1551707477;mircea_popescu;what THE FUCK is that thing ? it looks like a bad photochop. did they seriously paste a 20sqft "livingroom" to a... what the fuck is it, half a kitchen table welded to half a livingroom table ?
1900231;1551707496;mircea_popescu;fucking frankenstein roosveltchebas, jesus christ.
1900232;1551707556;mircea_popescu;i wonder if you can directly splash water from the faucet on the "modern, dynamic, blabla" "seated" at the workbench over there
1900233;1551707608;mircea_popescu;"Just outside of Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia features upscale shopping and dining, along with an easy escape to the outdoors. Our high-quality new homes for sale offer Smart Home features and Life Tested Home Designs® in townhome and condo communities."
1900234;1551707623;mircea_popescu;what the fuck,  Life Tested Home Designs® ?! srsly ? what the everfuck
1900235;1551708005;mircea_popescu;this has got to be the sorriest thing i saw, since [http://trilema.com/2011/de-ce-se-duce-sua-de-ripa/][that obama sadness].
1900236;1551713611;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> what the fuck,  Life Tested Home Designs� ?! srsly ? what the everfuck << Walls and rooms make UStards feel cramped and bad about spending all day in bed and couch
1900237;1551713655;BingoBoingo;And holy shit Northern Virginia makes Uruguay look cheap
1900238;1551713755;BingoBoingo;Those are "mid rise" stick built over a ground floor podium http://bingology.net/2019/02/19/mundane-shit-i-took-for-granted-that-is-new/#selection-121.0-125.387
1900239;1551713819;BingoBoingo;And not even all of them on that list are that...
1900240;1551714197;mircea_popescu;if you added walls to that contortion, only a jackrabbit could fit in there.
1900241;1551715694;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-04#1900234 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-26#1286278
1900242;1551715694;a111;Logged on 2019-03-04 13:53 mircea_popescu: what the fuck,  Life Tested Home Designs® ?! srsly ? what the everfuck
1900243;1551715694;a111;Logged on 2015-09-26 01:29 asciilifeform: you can drive around and see this, towers of 'condos' with one or two windows out of every dozen, lit up
1900244;1551715722;mircea_popescu;pretty fucking sad.
1900245;1551715769;asciilifeform;they've been building'em errywhere. 100% cardboard, and then mortgaged for half-m to 1m to some idjit, good margin.
1900246;1551715781;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Well, there's some 2 bedroom apartments here with the same square metrage as the habitation module which is close to the same footprint as the asciilifeform/ben_vulpes hotel room.
1900247;1551715790;*;mircea_popescu watched "old school" yest with the gals because i don't recall why. holy shit that's a transparent piece of femstate agitprop (not coincidentally, with the same crew as http://trilema.com/very-bad-things ) -- who could possibly pass on the "career woman" with a kid in tow  and all that nonsense.
1900248;1551715808;mircea_popescu;NEVERTHELESS, the most remarkable part to my eye was "holy shit those huts they live in"
1900249;1551715818;BingoBoingo;Not too many of them, but apparently it was a fad at some point "how many walls can we stick without making bigger apartments"
1900250;1551715938;asciilifeform;afaik ~100% of new residential construction, is this, nao.
1900251;1551715976;asciilifeform;not far from here, they knocked down a hotel and buncha other stuff, to build these.
1900252;1551715984;asciilifeform;before that -- another.
1900253;1551716038;BingoBoingo;When I left they were still doing the cookie cutter cul-de-sac subdivisions full of stick built
1900254;1551716058;*;asciilifeform regularly goes by what used to be a commercial parking lot, and finds that it was filled up with these.
1900255;1551716126;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there are now 2 standard matchstick designs -- 'condo' ( as in mircea_popescu's link ) and 'townhouse' ( same matchstick, same layout, slightly moar space )
1900256;1551716172;asciilifeform;all ~exactly same; 'premium' (closer to 1m) model has decorative brick on 1 side.
1900257;1551716202;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, this is the third design where they make the giant stickbuilt things and put some grass between them on recently ruined farmland. Because they have the space for it.
1900258;1551716279;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: here they put coupla sq. m. of grass. cuz why bother with the wasted space when tard will pay 1m anyway.
1900259;1551716322;asciilifeform;( idea being, of course, tard will pay ~2m~, with interest, etc )
1900260;1551716331;BingoBoingo;I can see it
1900261;1551716343;mircea_popescu;this is so fucking sad...
1900262;1551716519;mircea_popescu;in other news, hanbot 's new tits are something the fuck else.
1900263;1551716640;BingoBoingo;I was wondering what this surgery was, but was suspecting followup to the December abdominal cleanup
1900264;1551717429;mircea_popescu;nah.
1900265;1551718339;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/04/gnat-compilation-notes/ << Ossasepia -- GNAT Compilation Notes
1900266;1551718405;diana_coman;ave1, http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/04/gnat-compilation-notes/#selection-169.267-169.685 -> any idea?
1900267;1551718737;mircea_popescu;basically, gnat getting to where it's ready for genesis.
1900268;1551718744;mircea_popescu;then no need for the fetchextract bs.
1900269;1551719105;diana_coman;quite; I suspect it would cleanup the set of scripts too as atm it's a bit hairy to follow everything (or at least so it seemed to me coming at it relatively from the outside)
1900270;1551719183;diana_coman;ftr the whole tarballs thing is ~100MB and the heaviest in there is the gcc
1900271;1551720044;*;asciilifeform wonders how much of the 100 is autoconf garbage
1900272;1551720047;mircea_popescu;gnat imports gcc ?
1900273;1551720058;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: backend is 100% gcc's
1900274;1551720062;asciilifeform;always was
1900275;1551720113;mircea_popescu;myeah. "the front -end and runtime are written in ada".
1900276;1551720121;asciilifeform;typically it's got gcc's c frontend also (is how it eats c, when c is used for os crud etc)
1900277;1551720158;asciilifeform;'by mass', gnat is arguably a plugin for gcc
1900278;1551720163;asciilifeform;rather than vice-versa
1900279;1551720167;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1900280;1551720194;mircea_popescu;incidentally, i wonder what battle will the usg.gnu tards pick to fight us over. confiscation of gnat ? not yet ?
1900281;1551720232;asciilifeform;afaik that knob is still set to 'wear blindfold, plug ears, pretend aint happening'
1900282;1551720237;asciilifeform;on their end
1900283;1551720270;mircea_popescu;ave1 you willing to post a proper genesis of this thing ? if so, whensabouts would it be ready ? (do you have specific cleanup steps in mind ?) if not, why not ?
1900284;1551720292;*;asciilifeform wonders if ave1 got stuck tryin' to scrub out the autoconfolade
1900285;1551720304;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah, but if they continue much longer they'll disappear entiurely.
1900286;1551720343;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: arguably 'disappeared' already, i was unable to find any trace of any serious public use of gnat, outside of our walls
1900287;1551720370;mircea_popescu;the issue isn't "use of gnat", the issue is, defanging of gcc/glibc/shitgnome ecosystem.
1900288;1551720399;asciilifeform;aa
1900289;1551720400;mircea_popescu;this entire thing we're doing here is more of a hit on the femstate in computing than the original drepperisms systemv was a hit on the republic. we're turning the tables, i'd expect some reaction.
1900290;1551720411;asciilifeform;y'mean systemd ?
1900291;1551720416;mircea_popescu;yes.
1900292;1551720423;asciilifeform;( 'systemv' was the ancient at&t unix iirc )
1900293;1551720434;mircea_popescu;it seems strategically sound, "oh, i betcha they couldn't fuck gcc/glibc without gnat -- well, what if it can be denied!!!"
1900294;1551720531;*;mircea_popescu is kinda missing the historical piratebay femstate mockeries, looking forward to adding to his [http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/][collection].
1900295;1551720572;asciilifeform;would be moar interesting what-if, imho, if the derps had not themselves killed gplism , in the 'linksys' idjicy and elsewhere
1900296;1551720651;mircea_popescu;you don't understand how this idiocy works. there isn't a "they themselves". femstate is built on this dreamy approach to secreted alt-reality where only convenient subsets are dealt with at any time.
1900297;1551720654;asciilifeform;that mcd-eater mircea_popescu linked the diary of, earlier last mo, had the details
1900298;1551720668;mircea_popescu;which is how usg "prosecutor" doesn't have to explain why his office has lied ten thousand times in ten thousand courts.
1900299;1551720714;mircea_popescu;if i ran it, they'd be immediatelly struck out, "you've lied before, criminal conspiracy, may not present evidence". if i was cross-examining, i'd bury them under their own history, "your honor, my client has no history of lying in court -- that schmuck over there represents an organisation specifically predicated on exactly that".
1900300;1551720744;asciilifeform;iirc kazynski actually said this when he was tried
1900301;1551720745;mircea_popescu;but as things actually work, crown prosecutor can sit unblushing and talk shit about random black dude.
1900302;1551720757;asciilifeform;( result : struck from record, d00d sentenced to life incommunicado )
1900303;1551720775;mircea_popescu;"Bolton asked about tweets calling Maduro a dictator who violates human rights: CNN: Do you not see US support for other dictators around the world undermines the credibility of your argument. Bolton: No, I don’t think it does. I think it’s separate."
1900304;1551720806;mircea_popescu;right ? it's ~separate~. fat woman THEREBY gave up her "right" to ride subway ?!?! IT IS SEPARATE!!! she overate in the past, she wants to ride now, there's no relation!!!
1900305;1551720820;mircea_popescu;and so in this manner. i'd fully expect they'd try to bring a challenge, "oh, muh preshious licenses"
1900306;1551720909;mircea_popescu;this arbitrary "separation" is actually the pillar upon which femstate pretense to sovereignity rests. "he who gets to say what's separate from what wins". hence why things like http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ irritate them so much. "how does this non-us dare use our tools!!! arbitrary separation IS FOR CROWN ONLY!!!"
1900307;1551720934;*;asciilifeform has only the theory that in hitler's throne room, it was decided 'don't draw attention to republic existing', and this explains why mircea_popescu's collection of http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/ is thin, rather than enuff to stoke furnace with
1900308;1551720945;mircea_popescu;yes, but it can only last so long.
1900309;1551720963;mircea_popescu;eventually they'll have to try and make a stand.
1900310;1551721097;asciilifeform;...related convo from coupla days ago: pet: 'hey that's a woodchipper going by' a: 'aha' pet: 'how come it didn't stop, why aintcha in it' a: 'dunno, i guess not time yet'
1900311;1551721691;mircea_popescu;seems "license" wank around the gnat would be an ideal spot.
1900312;1551721729;mircea_popescu;most menalone / retards-in-tech are very well disciplined to immediately drop anything that's legalesed. much like menalone / retards in "humanities" are disciplined to drop anything labeled "fascist"
1900313;1551721768;mircea_popescu;there's these little buttons ustard's conditioned to react to.
1900314;1551721798;mircea_popescu;the positive conditioning, "buy this" works ~ok, but the negative conditioning, "avoid this" works quite well.
1900315;1551721810;mircea_popescu;moreover, between those two you've got the whole us "culture".
1900316;1551722710;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 154mn 70 500 WFF, WU esta bien
1900317;1551722710;auctionbot;Buy order # 1042 created by BingoBoingo: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Opening: 154mn ecu Ending: 2019-03-07 04:09:50.495654 UTC (69 hours)
1900318;1551722729;BingoBoingo;^ Exchage rate setting auction now live
1900319;1551723617;BingoBoingo;!Xsell 200mn 13500 Shares S.QNTR
1900320;1551723618;auctionbot;Sell order # 1043 created by BingoBoingo: Shares S.QNTR Opening: 200mn ecu Ending: 2020-09-16 18:24:57.803321 UTC (13499 hours)
1900321;1551723995;mircea_popescu;o.O
1900322;1551724785;BingoBoingo;!Xcancel 1043
1900323;1551724786;auctionbot;Sell order #  1043 was cancelled by BingoBoingo
1900324;1551724814;BingoBoingo;!Xsell 200mn 72 13500 Shares S.QNTR
1900325;1551724815;auctionbot;Sell order # 1044 created by BingoBoingo: 13500 Shares S.QNTR Opening: 200mn ecu Ending: 2019-03-07 06:44:54.898922 UTC (71 hours)
1900326;1551724859;BingoBoingo;Time horizon for Qntra share auction corrected
1900327;1551725191;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in found lulz, https://archive.is/2GOBM
1900328;1551725409;BingoBoingo;lol
1900329;1551725496;BingoBoingo;"This does look to be nearly 20 year old tech. It was used as a supplement for the process to work on I/O devices. It’s actually not needed at all with your system."
1900330;1551725516;asciilifeform;30, lol
1900331;1551725572;mircea_popescu;"The Genera Software environment is for using tapes with your Mac, correct?" << keks.
1900332;1551725609;mircea_popescu;"All the info I see is that this is very old tech and programming. The Symbolics company actually is no longer around." dumb cunt's doing "support" by looking shit up in google.
1900333;1551725613;asciilifeform;fwiw crapple dun even support 2009 iron, much less 1989.
1900334;1551725617;mircea_popescu;fucking useless generation of escaped slavemeat.
1900335;1551725620;asciilifeform;Officially.
1900336;1551725653;BingoBoingo;What escaped? Rejected slavemeat.
1900337;1551725735;mircea_popescu;who rejected amy ?
1900338;1551725761;asciilifeform;'amy' is likely a perlscript.
1900339;1551725764;mircea_popescu;rejected slavemeat's almost sad ; the escapists tho, they're the stupid cunts that "don't even have to".
1900340;1551725823;BingoBoingo;The void rejected amy. You know, the people who thought Trump was a clown back before they all died. All that's left there is void.
1900341;1551725831;BingoBoingo;And matchsticks
1900342;1551725860;BingoBoingo;And a disappointingly large number of boomsticks when viewed alongside their infrequent use
1900343;1551725865;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, specifically [http://trilema.com/2015/quantum-mechanics-today-a-machine-to-turn-penis-projectile-vibration-into-eyelash-flutter/#selection-67.9-67.52][this one].
1900344;1551725900;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo there's no such "rejection by default". either she was rejected by someone specifically, or else she didn't even fucking apply.
1900345;1551725901;*;asciilifeform unable to distinguish
1900346;1551725912;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform everyone else equally unable to distinguish.
1900347;1551725917;mircea_popescu;artificial intelligence.
1900348;1551725934;BingoBoingo;Fucking perl all the way down
1900349;1551726787;trinque;asciilifeform: who is this hilarious lisp troll and why is he not here?
1900350;1551726801;asciilifeform;trinque: nfi. turned up by chance.
1900351;1551727026;mircea_popescu;he has a point tho. show up dave.
1900352;1551727051;trinque;https://emacs-china.org/t/trolls-on-apples-customer-support/7407 << possible chicom troll
1900353;1551727153;asciilifeform;trinque: dun seem to load
1900354;1551727174;trinque;heavily js-laden
1900355;1551727207;trinque;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9URtd/?raw=true << poast text
1900356;1551727283;mircea_popescu;http://ldbeth.sdf.org/ << not chicom.
1900357;1551727400;mircea_popescu;let's see this  #linuxba then
1900358;1551727774;mircea_popescu;https://img.vim-cn.com/ << check them out. we prolly want something like this actually huh.
1900359;1551727906;mircea_popescu;https://img.vim-cn.com/ca/a0253732cc5337145399beef3acccaf6e7b0a7.jpg  works, too.
1900360;1551728031;mircea_popescu;https://keybase.io/team/linuxba in other keks.
1900361;1551728060;mircea_popescu;gotta love these morons, "here's a penguin, now install windows". empire of visual africanisms.
1900362;1551733059;asciilifeform;meanwhile, today's trilemalotto yields forth : http://trilema.com/2016/usg-in-btc-a-history-of-constant-failure/
1900363;1551733129;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-04#1900360 >> lol!! >> 'A Keybase team is a group of people who can communicate with end-to-end cryptography. This means the team's chats and files cannot be read by anyone outside the team, not even someone who breaks into Keybase's servers.' << didjaknow.
1900364;1551733129;a111;Logged on 2019-03-04 19:33 mircea_popescu: https://keybase.io/team/linuxba in other keks.
1900365;1551733301;*;asciilifeform continues to marvel at the degree of decerebration needed to swallow 'hey, i'ma go to encryptmyveheheryseekritmessage.com and the receiver will go to decryptmyveheheryseekritmessageanddefinitelynotrelaytousg.com and all is well'
1900366;1551733447;mircea_popescu;the empire of broken people is made of broken people.
1900367;1551733507;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so what am i putting in this month's report, " alf was gonna do ffa but went away to play with xrays instead" ?
1900368;1551733536;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in fact ch17 is written. but pending 16b for publication.
1900369;1551733545;mircea_popescu;...
1900370;1551733584;asciilifeform;loops, function definitions, bounded execution cycle count, several other necessary knobs.
1900371;1551733593;mircea_popescu;did that make some sort of sense as an answer in your head, that was lost on its way to my head ? because i don't see it.
1900372;1551733648;asciilifeform;gotta ask more specific q.
1900373;1551733728;asciilifeform;for instance ? 'on what burned cycles?' 3h on xray. 22 on pizarro (iron what-do, and learning how to mircea_popescuate forums, which not ready for field of yet). 30+ on ffa.
1900374;1551733761;mircea_popescu;the question is specific enough. you a) failed to publish any ffa matter during the MONTH of february. not during ~each individual week~, as the original notion went, after the last time we reviewed this, more or less around http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/06/its-only-words-and-assumptions-and-priorities-and-ouch/
1900375;1551733785;mircea_popescu;b) you published a raft of "x-ray kindergarten" something or the other.
1900376;1551733794;asciilifeform;do we have to do the 'do you want CORRECT ffa or fast ffa' thrd again.
1900377;1551733804;mircea_popescu;this is a red herring.
1900378;1551733842;mircea_popescu;at issue is no kind of objective constraint. at issue is your very infantile approach to work, which could be best summarized as "oh! shiny!".
1900379;1551733870;mircea_popescu;in a functional system, one can ~predict~ the content of february's report on the basis of january's report.
1900380;1551733888;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i buy some gear, and with moneyback warranty, had to test it. this is done. nao back to the regularly-scheduled biz.
1900381;1551733895;mircea_popescu;when you're involved though, no such prediction can be made -- for the transparent enough by now reason that any random item catching your indisciplined fancy is equiprobable.
1900382;1551733997;mircea_popescu;basically, i think i can authoritatively say, on the basis of having been trying to manage your efforts in the past however many years nsa existed, your approach to work is as follows : 1. there's an indistinct and unspecified ball of things you deduced you want on the basis of them being more or less connected to a core of goodness which, not necessarily very examinedly, seems to yield them as first degree relations. 2. you
1900383;1551733997;mircea_popescu;wake up any day, and proceed to set to work on whichever of these seems that morning to be the most promising. then you go to sleep.
1900384;1551734028;asciilifeform;it so also happens that asciilifeform has day job, where actually cranks out predictable crud. and it soaks up ~70-80% of cycles. but since i dun write about it, apparently as if dun exist.
1900385;1551734056;mircea_popescu;empire does not in any factual sense exist. man who works 70% of the time for idiots is === the remaining 30% of that man.
1900386;1551734068;mircea_popescu;that's what we're discussing, obviously enough.
1900387;1551734205;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: didja even get around to e.g trying the m-r ? still seems to me that i'm baking it faster than anyone's eating.
1900388;1551734221;mircea_popescu;but this entire "i work job!!!" thing's also a red herring. looky how your life flows : 1. your company needs some cash on a regular, predictable, and known in advance basis. 2. for convenience's sake i undertake a quarters' worth or so of this. 3. you turn around and buy, exactly like the people of walmart, a piece of hardware. on fucking impulse, there was ~no need for it~ and further, ~no time to use it~. but you wanted th
1900389;1551734221;mircea_popescu;e distraction, alfie bought himself a toy.
1900390;1551734231;mircea_popescu;now you're in the position where you complain "no cash for pizarro" and "no time for ffa".
1900391;1551734239;mircea_popescu;that's nice, but you ~created your problems yourself~.
1900392;1551734245;mircea_popescu;they're man-made, not environment-imposed.
1900393;1551734271;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my entire setup runs on surplus gear, which turns up at reasonable price point erry odd year. so not precisely 'impulse'.
1900394;1551734292;mircea_popescu;there's a reason management exists, as a profession. that reason is in full display above : left to their own devices, people like you fuck themselves.
1900395;1551734335;mircea_popescu;it's not however mandatory. it's optional, it works ~exactly~ like AA meetings work.
1900396;1551734434;asciilifeform;the other half of this is that if weren't for asciilifeform's 'fuck themselves' loose cannon experimentation, half of what presently runs, wouldn't exist.
1900397;1551734434;mircea_popescu;now how do you expect me to explain to your shareholders that "you know what ? the reason you can't predict in january what you'll read early march is that [???]" ?
1900398;1551734441;asciilifeform;incl. trb , gnat, FG.
1900399;1551734448;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is yet another red herring.
1900400;1551734457;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu would not be mircea_popescu if did not say this.
1900401;1551734490;mircea_popescu;looky here : the man who tells his wife "ima go see if i can find something to shoot at in the forest, we're fucking starving here" and the man who just disappears into the forest one day are readily distinguishable.
1900402;1551734498;mircea_popescu;there's no need to examine their bags to distinguish them.
1900403;1551734507;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: all of this being said, currently on target for end of apr. for usable gpg replacement.
1900404;1551734512;mircea_popescu;whether they came back with shot bear or shot wounds, is not yet relevant.
1900405;1551734527;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you are absolutely NOT on fucking target, quit deluding yourself.
1900406;1551734535;mircea_popescu;you missed FOUR targets in february alone, and it's march 4th.
1900407;1551734540;asciilifeform;the only mechanical part missing is keccak.
1900408;1551734560;asciilifeform;what 4 targets, there's 3 ch. remaining, per current cut.
1900409;1551734566;mircea_popescu;what you do is what every other similar idiot did since the invention of empire : keep balooning your debts, "yes i'm late with instalment 1 but instalment 2 will be 3x as big! [and also, of course, late]"
1900410;1551734567;asciilifeform;16b, 17, 18.
1900411;1551734585;mircea_popescu;this is no waqy to live. the whole fucking POINT of the kindergarten was that you learn how to not be stupid in the way you're stupid.
1900412;1551734594;mircea_popescu;it never was your convincing me of the alt-wisdom of stupidity.
1900413;1551734601;asciilifeform;16b - m-r proof; 17 (written) variables, loops; 18 - kecc.
1900414;1551734609;mircea_popescu;~one a week~.
1900415;1551734613;mircea_popescu;that was the target. one item a week.
1900416;1551734620;mircea_popescu;there were 4 weeks in february. where are the 4 items ?
1900417;1551734641;asciilifeform;keccak is currently on chalkboard, diana_coman's aint usable for the purpose (not const. time)
1900418;1551734656;mircea_popescu;again... did that make some sort of sense as an answer in your head, that was lost on its way to my head ? because i don't see it
1900419;1551734690;asciilifeform;what does mircea_popescu want for an answer ? 'yes i'ma shit it out by thursday'?
1900420;1551734721;mircea_popescu;as you stand right now, you're in a much worse position than nicoleci. she's a smart girl that got cheated out of an education, and consequently catching up. you're a smart boy that ~refuses~ education, and consequently spinning in place, in 2019 same problems as 2018.
1900421;1551734745;mircea_popescu;are you aware, you had THIS EXACT PROBLEM a year ago to the week ?
1900422;1551734754;mircea_popescu;or what is it, "lalala i can't hear it, dun count, not my problem" ?
1900423;1551734844;asciilifeform;i cannot promise to mircea_popescu et al, '1/week', given as i do whole thing in hours between wiping microshit-encrusted arse for a living.
1900424;1551734971;mircea_popescu;but you can make it as small as you wish!
1900425;1551735001;mircea_popescu;this is your problem here, see. like any mental problem, it has its articulations. to you i have no doubt this nonsense makes sense, "i can't promise one a week, i got a job".
1900426;1551735003;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: can i ? how do i cut m-r proof into small ?
1900427;1551735028;mircea_popescu;by leaving it for the end, where all the "i dunno how to do this yet" go.
1900428;1551735034;asciilifeform;this is not bad pt overall, tho, the reason why was able to keep the conveyor going earlier to satisfaction of audience, is that found cuts.
1900429;1551735041;asciilifeform;but the current remnant dun cut well.
1900430;1551735050;mircea_popescu;then you can say "hey folks, we're done with the ffa that i know how to do, item is shelved for now, will pick it up if i wise up"
1900431;1551735095;mircea_popescu;nobody is asking you to do impossible, or even difficult things. the problem's not the things. the problem's that you have developed, and evidently through insistent practice ensconced, a very self-defeating style of working.
1900432;1551735099;*;asciilifeform prolly ought to cut 17 in 2
1900433;1551735118;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i gotta drink the tea before entirely cold, brb
1900434;1551735125;mircea_popescu;it's neither artistic nor geniusy nor liberty-ish nor anything else, to not pay rent on fucking time.
1900435;1551735143;mircea_popescu;nobody was a better writer for being late at his barber.
1900436;1551735862;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/indian-licenses-russian-assault-rifle-for-domestic-production-while-us-scolds-pakistan-over-potential-f-16-misuse/ << Qntra -- Indian Licenses Russian Assault Rifle For Domestic Production While US Scolds Pakistan Over Potential F-16 "Misuse"
1900437;1551735901;BingoBoingo;^ Marketing roughly in the same league as a razor company telling their customers they need to be more feminine men
1900438;1551735969;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: thinking about it over the tea : if mircea_popescu dun object, i'ma turn 16b into an appendix, it's stupid that it holds up the flow
1900439;1551735987;mircea_popescu;by all means.
1900440;1551736002;mircea_popescu;the problem here isn't whether m-r is proven or not proven, to standard x or to standard y, now or later.
1900441;1551736022;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu . then conveyor will move again shortly, 17 this coming weekend.
1900442;1551736028;mircea_popescu;the issue here is that a) you don't correctly account for costs, and that b) you don't correctly communicate.
1900443;1551736045;asciilifeform;no mircea_popescu is right, 'the spice must flow'(tm)
1900444;1551736093;mircea_popescu;as to a) : 1. you see an item for sale, for price X. 2. you don't even bother to calculate the expected-average-X, i suspect, but merely "intuit" it, without even a full second's thought. 3. you calculate X-imagined-avg-X thus obtaining a delta, which then motivates you to purchase, and in the process ALSO commits you.
1900445;1551736112;mircea_popescu;but you never bother to calculate the costs of opportunity! neither in time, nor in actual resources, nor in anything else!
1900446;1551736130;mircea_popescu;the man who drives 10 miles out of his way to buy a tank of gas a cent cheaper does the exact fucking thing, "oh, it was cheaper gas". no it fucking wasn't.
1900447;1551736185;mircea_popescu;the cost to own, the cost to use, these fucking figure into the total cost. what good is it you got something 50 or 500 or 5000 bucks cheaper than "the average" if the average wasn't even correctly calculated and as a bonus you lose your horses die in the fire started by the wife's funeral candles ?!
1900448;1551736186;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's never a q of '10 cent cheaper', it's b/w the sticker price - usually 5-6 figs, prohibitive for asciilifeform entirely - and 'can haz'
1900449;1551736218;mircea_popescu;it is still a deffective calculation, in that it only counts ~part~ of the cost, and compares to a ~dubious~ watermark.
1900450;1551736264;asciilifeform;by mircea_popescu's 'quimby' formula, 100% of asciilifeform's gear is a loss, asciilifeform makes 0 moneys on his research.
1900451;1551736273;mircea_popescu;and as to b), you never to my fucking knowledge said the "hey honey, ima go see if i can find something to shoot at in the forest" part. it's never "hey, i plan to spend so much dough to realise this much unbooked profit on the basis of this pricetag and through this process"
1900452;1551736279;asciilifeform;and doesn't expect to make.
1900453;1551736287;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that was not my formula.
1900454;1551736355;mircea_popescu;"the cost to buy this $160`000 item [which really can be had at $8`000 with some regularity, if one's not in a hurry] for $7`750 is $7`750 in cash + dropping the ballo on ffa + whatever else it is.
1900455;1551736359;mircea_popescu;you gotta ADD ALL THE PLUSSES.
1900456;1551736375;asciilifeform;so mircea_popescu still thinks 'dropped ball because burned 3h taking photo' ?
1900457;1551736384;mircea_popescu;it may well be that the $250 notional you made ain't worth the notional value of what you lost.
1900458;1551736401;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i think that because http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-04#1900416
1900459;1551736401;a111;Logged on 2019-03-04 21:23 mircea_popescu: there were 4 weeks in february. where are the 4 items ?
1900460;1551736444;asciilifeform;maybe this is a revelation to mircea_popescu , but 3 noncontiguous 1hr timeslots birth 0 ffa.
1900461;1551736455;mircea_popescu;it's not even true that asciilifeform 's gear trove is "worthless". everything has a value.
1900462;1551736459;asciilifeform;needs at least a block of solid 5, just to reload into head.
1900463;1551736505;mircea_popescu;this is yet another red herring. it is evidently true one needs arbitrary long chunks for arbitrary long tasks, say "to prove m-r i need a weekend alone". but "ffa" IS NOT this. ffa is eminently aditive.
1900464;1551736525;mircea_popescu;even 20minute timeslices can move it along, ~if~ you know how to manage your time and your thought process.
1900465;1551736533;asciilifeform;certain parts defo. which is why i'ma rearrange the ordering.
1900466;1551736539;asciilifeform;( certain parts, sadly not )
1900467;1551736546;mircea_popescu;but currently you're much more adept at avoiding the learning of how to do that than at the doing it!
1900468;1551736576;mircea_popescu;it's like a kid who, in preference of learning 1 digit multiplication table, learned a tree of 12 principal excuses with 12 nodes each.
1900469;1551736585;mircea_popescu;holy shit, it'd have been faster to learn 100 items than 144!
1900470;1551736635;asciilifeform;keccak, for instance, needs a solid block of at least 3d. how am i to know when i'll get 3d ?
1900471;1551736666;mircea_popescu;so tehn spend however many 20 minute slices it takes to write these out, write out the time commitment you expect, sort them in order, and make yet another publishing plan!
1900472;1551736690;mircea_popescu;management ~is exactly this~.
1900473;1551736706;asciilifeform;i'ma make another 'train schedule' after 17.
1900474;1551736724;mircea_popescu;rather than being surprised by "random" events one could've seen coming a mile's worth of weeks away, if they bothered to look ; and rather than being surprised by where the horse decides to go.
1900475;1551736780;mircea_popescu;you can't go through life like this, astride a horse that takes you wherever it pleases, that you barely even know or ever talk to. wtf, it's your fucking head, it's a head not a horse!
1900476;1551736869;asciilifeform;currently worse than this , dun even have horse but 1024 harnessed centipedes. 1-2 usably large blocks of time per mo, and at ~rando
1900477;1551736871;asciilifeform;m
1900478;1551736872;mircea_popescu;a more balanced distribution of your own brainpower to the trees of your own life can only benefit you. as it is, you're stuck now spending weeks of time to deal with the results of decisions that took minutes to take on the basis of information you "compiled" in half seconds, by sucking thumbs.
1900479;1551736886;mircea_popescu;this is no way to go about things, balance the tree, let everything get a commensurate qty of brain cycles.
1900480;1551736961;mircea_popescu;if the tree is (evaluate object) (decide if buying object) (deal with the fallout of buying object) you can't possibly spend 300ms alftime on 1, 190s alftime on 2 and 168`000`000 s altfime on 3. it's just insane.
1900481;1551737082;asciilifeform;this so, but there's also cost to ~not~ buying $tool. for instance asciilifeform passed up in decade 2 chances to get electron microscope. and may end up paying moar, for having so.
1900482;1551737184;mircea_popescu;yes, of course. i'm not proposing you publish the damn thing in any particular scheme, or that your math comes out a particular way
1900483;1551737191;mircea_popescu;I AM INSISTING YOU FUCKING DO IT AT ALL!
1900484;1551737202;asciilifeform;( how? e.g. asciilifeform was unable to produce a usefully general break for the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2433 chip. which means still no 'tmsr lappy'. and so forth )
1900485;1551737203;mircea_popescu;there's no math broken-er than the math completely the fuck undone.
1900486;1551737235;*;asciilifeform aint about to disagree with this
1900487;1551737356;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in obscura, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2CjUT/?raw=true
1900488;1551743788;auctionbot;Buy order # 1042: 500 WFF, WU esta bien Heard: 154mn from PeterL. Ending: 2019-03-07 04:09:50.495654 UTC (64 hours 8 mins)
1900489;1551752116;mircea_popescu;well, that linuxba thing turned out to be pretty retarded.
1900490;1551752781;mircea_popescu;the more patient sinophiles are invited to squeeze the rock for butter at their leisure, my interest's exhausted.
1900491;1551753745;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/no-such-labs-snsa-february-2019-statement/ << Trilema -- No Such lAbs (S.NSA), February 2019 Statement
1900492;1551759908;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: all they said was 'z' ? or was moar
1900493;1551760641;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gD0hD/?raw=true
1900494;1551804091;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/angels-with-dirty-faces-2/ << Trilema -- Angels with Dirty Faces
1900495;1551809351;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i translated the chinesium, it's 100% snoar, some kinda fiatological dark-age #b-a
1900496;1551809373;mircea_popescu;i got ~same impression.
1900497;1551809405;mircea_popescu;whatever, [http://trilema.com/2018/must-suck-to-be-one-of-you-average-guy-with-a-great-sense-of-humor-losers-seriously-now/#selection-271.17-271.58]["Grupo de Usuarios de Linux de Costa Rica].
1900498;1551809645;asciilifeform;20y ago it was still possib to hear something interesting at a linux usergroup ( asciilifeform , for instance, in iirc 2004 went to local 1 and met a half-mad greybeard who 'mark my words, nsa boobytraps in the nic bios' , 1st mention in asciilifeform's memory of subj ) but certainly not today.
1900499;1551809704;asciilifeform;today -- prolly they discuss which ver of systemd to use.
1900500;1551809736;mircea_popescu;hey, i recall a time in the 90s irc was for dating. fulla exactly the kinda gal you'd like to meet, bash & fuck on 1st "date".
1900501;1551809802;asciilifeform;prolly this was back when black sea was still swimmable in..
1900502;1551809830;mircea_popescu;certainly.
1900503;1551809936;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> today -- prolly they discuss which ver of systemd to use. << Nah, more likely they discuss how great the version they are ordered to use is
1900504;1551810014;mircea_popescu;"il net e multo peggiorato" "ufa! de maniera verticale!" to pastiche [http://trilema.com/2018/cu-cartile-pe-masa-un-fleac-l-au-ciuruit/#selection-21.0-21.17][sorrentino]
1900505;1551810037;mircea_popescu;9
1900506;1551810196;mircea_popescu;btw, spyked lobbes either of you feel like implementing a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-04#1900358 thing ?
1900507;1551810196;a111;Logged on 2019-03-04 19:29 mircea_popescu: https://img.vim-cn.com/ << check them out. we prolly want something like this actually huh.
1900508;1551810243;mircea_popescu;minus the "Alipay and Wechat Pay are supported currently:" shockingly idiotic bs, of course.
1900509;1551810318;mircea_popescu;if volume is a concern, can limit it to so many bytes / time interval / ip. add command to your bot to whitelist ips by their being claimed by l2 people, then you can even invoice them.
1900510;1551812075;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/minigame-smg-february-2019-statement/ << Trilema -- MiniGame (S.MG), February 2019 Statement
1900511;1551813241;hanbot;so check this out: on new attempt to run cuntoo bootstrap.sh, i get this error: "umount: invalid option -- 'R'". whereas man umount shows no uppercase R option (lowercase r makes sense, remount read-only). and moreover, first bootstrap.sh run moved past this no prob, not like the script *changed*, wth?
1900512;1551813933;mircea_popescu;hanbot -R is recursive unmount.
1900513;1551813953;mircea_popescu;possible you ran it previously (when it worked) on an unmount that supports -R ? whereas the one using now doesn't ?
1900514;1551813971;hanbot;0.o
1900515;1551813987;mircea_popescu;mount -V
1900516;1551814020;hanbot;mount from util-linux 2.22.1 (libmount 2.22.0: debug)
1900517;1551814026;mircea_popescu;iirc only introduced recently-ish.
1900518;1551814034;mircea_popescu;come to think of it, prolly also requires root. are you not root ?
1900519;1551814095;hanbot;mircea_popescu am root
1900520;1551814096;mircea_popescu;hanbot anyway, the same effect can be obtained by simply umount-ing all the partitions.
1900521;1551814130;hanbot;aite. ty!
1900522;1551817416;lobbesbot;!!up lobbes_field
1900523;1551817417;deedbot;lobbes_field voiced for 30 minutes.
1900524;1551817418;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/luci-del-varieta/ << Trilema -- Luci del varieta
1900525;1551817421;lobbes_field;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-05#1900506 << sadly, I've got a neglected hopper to attend to first
1900526;1551817421;a111;Logged on 2019-03-05 18:23 mircea_popescu: btw, spyked lobbes either of you feel like implementing a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-04#1900358 thing ?
1900527;1551817435;lobbes_field;To update: Now that I have a bootable Cuntoo, a hand-rolled Gentoo, and a proper keccak v setup (with ave1-gnat), the only item left in my 'remedial' hopper is to read and sign Spyked's keccak regrind of logbot_command_router_python >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/01/hopper-update-january-2019/
1900528;1551817455;lobbes_field;Then, I'm back to attacking http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/11/conveyor-outlook-now-to-feb-2019/ (which, I've -completely- missed my deadline on)
1900529;1551817471;*;lobbes_field back to meat
1900530;1551817490;lobbesbot;!!down lobbes_field
1900531;1551817491;deedbot;lobbesbot may not $down lobbes_field.
1900532;1551818245;hanbot;continuing my mounting woes, i can't unmount sdb3 partition on target drive from initial cuntoo bootstrap.sh (target is busy); offending process from 'lsof | grep sdb3' looks like /proc/4693/exe ("txt, unknown"), no response from kill -9, no idea how it zombied out or why, what am i gonna do?
1900533;1551818289;hanbot;ps -aux | grep sdb3 meanwhile lists pid 4693, [jbd2/sdb3-8]
1900534;1551818522;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform btw, were you saying you can't find write-only sdcards ?
1900535;1551818573;mircea_popescu;hanbot do you have a file open somewhere ?
1900536;1551818830;hanbot;nop. i'm running screen but screen -ls shows 1 socket.
1900537;1551818855;mircea_popescu;hanbot cat /proc/4693/status says what ?
1900538;1551818861;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/03/05/pizarro-february-2019-report/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro February 2019 Report
1900539;1551818929;hanbot;mircea_popescu p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YtSVG/?raw=true
1900540;1551819013;mircea_popescu;should show the parent. basically, the way this whole thing works is as follows : 1. linux is organized around "processes", which are a sort of agents let's say. they're listed in /proc/ ; 2. any process can spawn other processes, the whole menagerie's spawned by the kernel (which in systemd thing is also process 1, hence the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863880 thing ). 3. a process can close, or be terminated, ki
1900541;1551819013;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 01:52 mircea_popescu: provided of course "pid eins" is somehow involved also.
1900542;1551819014;mircea_popescu;lled, whatever, at which point its parent, ie, whoever spawned it, waits on it and cleans it up. 4. until such a thing happens, the ~process table~ still lists it, even though it is no longer able to ~do~ anything. this is a "zombie", process existing in listings only, not yet cleaned up by its parent. (it can, unfortunately, block unmounting).
1900543;1551819045;mircea_popescu;so your thing here is to figure out who the fuck is the parent, why the fuck is it not cleaning up its dead kids, and possibly kill it too, and it's stupid father in turn until presumably you end up with the kernel which WILL clean them all up.
1900544;1551819126;mircea_popescu;does that make any sense ?
1900545;1551819142;mircea_popescu;from the other pov, the jbd2/sdb3-8 thing is typically the kernel doing journalling.
1900546;1551819167;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-05#1900534 << lol, ~read~ only. did find that there's a supposedly-write-once ro bit that one can set ( appears to work, but naturally i've no way to verify that there aint a magick undocumented sequence that resets it somehow )
1900547;1551819167;a111;Logged on 2019-03-05 20:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, were you saying you can't find write-only sdcards ?
1900548;1551819193;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i have a bunch here, which have a tab! you switch it to permit writing or not!
1900549;1551819196;mircea_popescu;like ye olde diskettes!
1900550;1551819212;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they all have the tab. the behaviour relies on the reader tho, not the card
1900551;1551819221;hanbot;mircea_popescu yes, makes sense. quandry is whether figuring out process lineage or ordering reboot and re-prepping for bootstrap will take the larger amt of time, but then former path comes with figuring out new (to me) shit, so...prolly best.
1900552;1551819230;asciilifeform;and most baked-into-iron readers seem to ignore the rw line
1900553;1551819233;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ah
1900554;1551819381;mircea_popescu;hanbot tried umount -f (force) ?
1900555;1551819473;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i didn't dig into it, but noticed the little tab looking at them. now that i think about it, i seem to recall this was actually discussed in log.
1900556;1551819484;hanbot;mircea_popescu i haven't, based on noting various unknown webderps reporting it hung/killed their session
1900557;1551819502;mircea_popescu;i dunno anything else you could try instead of a reboot anyway.
1900558;1551819583;mircea_popescu;honestly a sane box should not end up in the state you described, short of doing things to it like alf's easy bake oven.
1900559;1551819598;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha in log, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814763 , possib. elsewhere
1900560;1551819598;a111;Logged on 2018-05-17 15:34 asciilifeform: ( and, lulzily, classical sd card ~does not support write protect~, it has the same usg.nonsensical 'software read writeprotect tab' as old floppies )
1900561;1551819629;*;asciilifeform brb,meats
1900562;1551819931;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in even more http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1900068 lulz : turns out, [http://trilema.com/2013/on-learning-communism/][i fucking had it] also.
1900563;1551819931;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 23:04 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889862 slash http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-08#948046 lulz : the dork i used above for a source for the commie radio pictures (not that he originates them, they actually come from http://www.latrecut.ro/2006/05/ric-stramoshul-ipod-ului/ which is significantlly better contextually, but I was lazy) not only passes himself as a "Ministrul Cyberculturii | Recenzii, cronici, cr
1900564;1551819936;mircea_popescu;this laziness.
1900565;1551825584;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/rsas-shamir-did-not-receive-us-visa-for-rsa-conference/ << Qntra -- RSA's Shamir Did Not Receive US Visa For "RSA Conference"
1900566;1551828067;trinque;hanbot: the reason for the recursive unmount is that the build mounts /proc /dev and /sys in the build target
1900567;1551828084;trinque;these have to be unmounted from within build dir before umounting build
1900568;1551828105;trinque;could try umount build/*; umount build
1900569;1551828287;trinque;the script runs this umount for you at the beginning of each attempt to clean up after any prior build attempt. it wont bother with the umounts if they're already gone.
1900570;1551838896;mod6;trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RYXo6/?raw=true
1900571;1551839242;trinque;mod6: ack, handled
1900572;1551839340;trinque;also congrats on your cuntoo boot
1900573;1551840475;trinque;in related news, I have trashed my cuntoo build drive with repeated builds!
1900574;1551840481;*;trinque goes to procure another
1900575;1551840541;trinque;lets all plan on smashing through this path bug in the vpatch this weekend. I'll be available for it.
1900576;1551840893;trinque;df -h
1900577;1551840901;trinque;pffflol
1900578;1551844390;mod6;trinque: thx!  and yah, it was nice to get that going.
1900579;1551844489;mod6;I'll do what I can this weekend, time-permitting.
1900580;1551844496;mod6;Just let me know.
1900581;1551845317;trinque;I'd like to get it done saturday afternoon if that works.
1900582;1551845879;mod6;My availability is pretty limited that day, during the day.  Probably will be around later that evening, or more for sure on Sunday.
1900583;1551845899;mod6;Eitherway, I'll read logs and catch up if you proceed without me, of course.
1900584;1551848450;hanbot;trinque, /sys fails with "/usr/gnat/vtoolsp1/vtools/cuntoo/build/sys: target is busy." lsof doesn't match anything tho.
1900585;1551865273;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-05#1900506 <-- I defo wanna make this, can start working on it after I finish the current [http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html][scheduled items] . I'm missing some deadlines myself (got sidetracked by the more urgent need for mirroring gutenberg) and currently working to get back on track
1900586;1551865273;a111;Logged on 2019-03-05 18:23 mircea_popescu: btw, spyked lobbes either of you feel like implementing a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-04#1900358 thing ?
1900587;1551866756;spyked;asciilifeform, is http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893396 still available? I'm looking for a small machine to (ab)use for cuntoo install and IMHO this is a good alternative to scavenging the local junkyards for usable hw.
1900588;1551866756;a111;Logged on 2019-02-07 16:49 asciilifeform: in other cuntooisms : if anyone is short a x64 box to test-fire cuntoo with, asciilifeform has a surplus disposable box, 'lenovo s10-3' , with that same chipset as in x60 etc period ( https://archive.is/Dny84 ) , if anyone in l1 wants, it's yours for the cost of postage ( has a mechanical hdd in it, i fughet of what size )
1900589;1551884120;asciilifeform;spyked: yours for cost of postage. gpggram to asciilifeform with where you want it sent.
1900590;1551884540;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathendom, usg 'open sores' a famous shitware: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-07#1622885 >> https://archive.is/Nhkkc
1900591;1551884540;a111;Logged on 2017-03-07 17:44 asciilifeform: in other lulz, nsa has internal clone of ida, 'ghidra'
1900592;1551884574;*;asciilifeform can't be arsed to sacrifice a box to try an' run it, presently
1900593;1551884647;shinohai;Why does this feel like a Roman Pilum ?
1900594;1551886369;BingoBoingo;Well shinohai, how do you usually use your Pilum to get the feeling you are accustomed to receiving from it?
1900595;1551886625;shinohai;Throw at enemy, laugh as they attempt removal or drop now useless shield.
1900596;1551886920;BingoBoingo;Aite, just wanted to make sure you weren't driving dull side into ground, climbing, and using sharp side as seat. Once again a case of reserve sharp side for enemy.
1900597;1551887119;trinque;hanbot: umount build/sys   ?
1900598;1551887163;shinohai;BingoBoingo: Nah, mine has "Antrorsum hostem" engraved on the sharp end.
1900599;1551887278;BingoBoingo;Ah, first they drop their armor. Next the legionaires put warnings on their own kit.
1900600;1551887363;shinohai;Beware the Ides of March.
1900601;1551887544;trinque;asciilifeform: they totally either-did-or-are-considering-seriously ending the whatever-you-idiots-think-we-do program
1900602;1551887564;trinque;2019 marketing push for the derps
1900603;1551888302;asciilifeform;trinque: they 'end program' erry ~decade, when $name leaks out, and reorg into $newname
1900604;1551888312;trinque;sure, of cousre
1900605;1551888315;trinque;*course
1900606;1551888612;diana_coman;uhm, asciilifeform BingoBoingo I can't speak in pizarro?
1900607;1551888614;asciilifeform;recall clinton-era 'echelon'
1900608;1551888620;asciilifeform;diana_coman: hm lemme see
1900609;1551888646;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plz try now
1900610;1551888662;diana_coman;thanks!
1900611;1551889527;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Do you anticipate needing a reset on your cuntoo box soon?
1900612;1551889637;asciilifeform;trinque & other people with working cuntoos -- plox to take a look in the #p log and see if you can easily say what the orig. form of the nao-broken symlink looked like -- ty
1900613;1551889665;asciilifeform;mod6 , shinohai , et al ^
1900614;1551889672;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no need and no use for that
1900615;1551889677;asciilifeform;no ?
1900616;1551889680;diana_coman;that symlink was previosly made by me
1900617;1551889684;asciilifeform;aaa ok
1900618;1551889700;asciilifeform;nm then
1900619;1551889723;diana_coman;no, it's not the symlink that caused the breakage; it's the botched removal i.e. it did more than remove the symlink
1900620;1551889754;asciilifeform;pretty strange effect, i haven't previously observed anyffin of the kind from removing a symlink
1900621;1551889796;diana_coman;me neither but it's a ...test machine; so it gets all tested, what can I say
1900622;1551889815;asciilifeform;rright -- i suspect there's an undocumented linuxtardation somewhere at the bottom of this
1900623;1551889841;diana_coman;ftr I have otherwise down even what the symlink was pointed at; it's not that the issue per se
1900624;1551890660;mircea_popescu;spyked that works. fwiw i'd keep the look of the thing, manpage-like
1900625;1551890734;mircea_popescu;"Ghidra is a software reverse engineering (SRE) framework developed by NSA's Research Directorate for NSA's cybersecurity mission. " << developed nothing, ida license with serials filed off!!1
1900626;1551890749;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: GB of java turd
1900627;1551890755;mircea_popescu;but of course.
1900628;1551890773;asciilifeform;(i.e. quite unlike ida, they actually hired 9000 grunts to try & reimplement... )
1900629;1551890795;mircea_popescu;no fucking way. they "hired" 9000 zeks who were "hired" anyway by virtue of being zeks, to wrap it in crap so "nobody can tell".
1900630;1551890816;asciilifeform;entirely possib; can't currently spare any cycles to find out
1900631;1551890821;mircea_popescu;you know, you can run a ms dos box in a java environment emulated in javascript bytecode!!1
1900632;1551890850;mircea_popescu;fucking "java". this imbecile fashion to name things after africans already.
1900633;1551890873;mircea_popescu;NOBODY WORTH THE MENTION EVER WAS BLACK. OR EVEN BROWN. GET THE FUCK OVER IT ALREADY, LIES WONT FIX IT!
1900634;1551890879;mircea_popescu;GET TO FUCKING WORK OMFG.
1900635;1551890985;mircea_popescu;in the meantime, things can be called "liguria" and so on.
1900636;1551891354;diana_coman;in other unwanted discoveries: on trying to compile the whole server on the sjlj-gnat I got a bunch of undefined symbol for unwind_sjlj_raiseexception ; anyone knows about this?
1900637;1551891449;diana_coman;ftr the same setup otherwise compiled and ran perfectly fine the tasks-test
1900638;1551891527;mircea_popescu;unsurprisingly, compiler started diverging from the "obsolete" ie functional exception handler.
1900639;1551891554;mircea_popescu;diana_coman make a post once you fix it, with the list of what / how you fixed.
1900640;1551891655;diana_coman;once I get to the bottom of it, I certainly will; my first thought was exactly that - ugh, meanwhile it's not "supported" anymore or wtf - but so far I have no real clue, I'll need to dig
1900641;1551892136;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: on my globe, java is near sumatra, and not anywhere near africa..
1900642;1551892168;asciilifeform;y'know, in greater hirohitostan
1900643;1551892212;asciilifeform;( and it'd suck just as hard if they'd named it 'monaco' instead.. )
1900644;1551892252;asciilifeform;a turd by any other name, would smell as sweet (tm)(r)
1900645;1551892352;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900636 << was this in the final linkage step, or earlier (and if then, then in the .cpp pieces ? or ada ? )
1900646;1551892352;a111;Logged on 2019-03-06 16:55 diana_coman: in other unwanted discoveries: on trying to compile the whole server on the sjlj-gnat I got a bunch of undefined symbol for unwind_sjlj_raiseexception ; anyone knows about this?
1900647;1551892362;diana_coman;asciilifeform, final linkage step
1900648;1551892395;asciilifeform;afaik this can only mean that it is trying to link with a non-sjljistic gcc standard lib
1900649;1551892433;asciilifeform;diana_coman: can you make a 'hello world' that reproduces this ? ( i.e. without seekrit server coad )
1900650;1551892498;diana_coman;you know, that was what I was trying to ensure on the test server (that it's linking with a sjljistic lib) when the simple removal of a symlink blew up in my face
1900651;1551892640;diana_coman;once I have the test machine in working order again I'll see what's going on there; in the happiest case it was just linking with the wrong thing and so it'll be easily solvable
1900652;1551892679;asciilifeform;aite
1900653;1551893158;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nevertheless!!!
1900654;1551893230;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no i get. i barfed when encountered 'mali' chipset ( srsly?! mali ? )
1900655;1551893239;asciilifeform;why aint there a chukcha chipset, btw.
1900656;1551893303;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/xqalm#selection-3453.1-3188.203 << oblig.
1900657;1551893321;asciilifeform;+ https://archive.is/xqalm#selection-3541.1-3544.1 .
1900658;1551894802;diana_coman;asciilifeform, for completeness, adacore's gnat with --rts=sjlj throws only one undefined reference rather than a bunch; here's the winner: undefined reference to symbol '_Unwind_Resume@@GCC_3.0'
1900659;1551895029;diana_coman;possibly this is just a different mismatch
1900660;1551895030;asciilifeform;ok this is odd, cuz, recall, per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896695 an' http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897234 , it oughta be _Unwind_SjLj_Resume , and not _Unwind_Resume ( the latter is a zcxism! )
1900661;1551895030;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 22:56 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/zcx_procs.asm http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/ljmp_procs.asm
1900662;1551895030;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 17:53 asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/feb_16_tasks_o.html
1900663;1551895081;diana_coman;o.O so you're saying that apparently gprbuild --RTS=sjlj on adacore's gnat STILL pulls in some zcxism??
1900664;1551895088;asciilifeform;loox like!!
1900665;1551895099;asciilifeform;unless it was the cpp components which did
1900666;1551895121;*;asciilifeform cannot presume to comment re diana_coman's in-house proggy, but as i understand it's sumthing like 80% ancient cpp ?
1900667;1551895162;diana_coman;I think I'll take a break and leave it until I have the smg test box back so at least I don't mess about with all sorts of versions of everything or I'll go nuts
1900668;1551895175;asciilifeform;logical
1900669;1551895206;asciilifeform;diana_coman: BingoBoingo set out for the cellar just nao.
1900670;1551895234;diana_coman;great, thanks
1900671;1551896070;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900597 << trinque: same, "target is busy". if you wanna try and untangle, i'm at your disposal, but otherwise i'ma have it rebooted
1900672;1551896070;a111;Logged on 2019-03-06 15:45 trinque: hanbot: umount build/sys   ?
1900673;1551896810;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/087-feedparse.html << The Tar Pit -- A feed parser for Common Lisp programs
1900674;1551897148;spyked;mircea_popescu, aite. yeah, their pastebox looks pretty neat.
1900675;1551897796;spyked;asciilifeform, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/udmXj/?raw=true
1900676;1551897848;asciilifeform;spyked: got it. i'ma get it to the post on sat. at the latest.
1900677;1551897892;spyked;ok, tyvm!
1900678;1551897896;asciilifeform;np
1900679;1551898933;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell diana_coman http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NJ0f5/?raw=true
1900680;1551898934;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1900681;1551898996;asciilifeform;hanbot : while BingoBoingo is in the cage, do you also want reset ?
1900682;1551899010;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: Your live environment is ready. This is the same live image hanbot has been using. Changes made to the live environment will not persist.
1900683;1551899045;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: well, changes made on the actual stationary disk, oughta persist, sorta whole point
1900684;1551899052;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plz check that it actually sees the raid
1900685;1551899120;hanbot;asciilifeform, BingoBoingo: well, waiting for trinque --i want to give him an opportunity in case this is interesting.
1900686;1551899165;BingoBoingo;hanbot asciilifeform I can always come back
1900687;1551899259;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It sees the disks. Unplugging keyboard and monitor from diana_coman's test box
1900688;1551899298;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: leave'em in for nao
1900689;1551899309;asciilifeform;err, the kvm, that is
1900690;1551899328;asciilifeform;in case i gotta help massage later tonight
1900691;1551899493;BingoBoingo;Will deploy kvm to S.MG testbox
1900692;1551899572;BingoBoingo;Deployed
1900693;1551899587;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo
1900694;1551899589;BingoBoingo;Withdrawing
1900695;1551901415;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, got it, thanks! but ssh is waiting on connecting to box... so far
1900696;1551901415;lobbesbot;diana_coman: Sent 41 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NJ0f5/?raw=true
1900697;1551901663;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: Let me know when you make it in. Just now tested the credentials I sent and there was no perceptible wait.
1900698;1551901770;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, I'm in ; it was hiccup on my side ; thank you
1900699;1551903844;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell ben_vulpes mimibot appears to be down
1900700;1551903845;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1900701;1551904883;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, ready for a reset when you get there
1900702;1551905919;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: Reset
1900703;1551905983;diana_coman;yaaay!
1900704;1551906010;BingoBoingo;Is it fixed?
1900705;1551906012;diana_coman;working fine; thank you very much BingoBoingo
1900706;1551906026;BingoBoingo;It was no problem at all.
1900707;1551906266;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: KVM unplugged and idle
1900708;1551906299;diana_coman;hopefully I won't mess it up again the same way at least
1900709;1551906301;BingoBoingo;In other news, any channel loggers interested in logging #pizarro ?
1900710;1551906334;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: Well, odd tripwire is odd tripwire
1900711;1551906344;BingoBoingo;withdrawing
1900712;1551907817;asciilifeform;incidentally, has anyone yet published a ~complete~ log bot kit ? last i knew , all that was trooly genesis'd is http://btcbase.org/patches/logbot-genesis , which is one-half of a log bot ( the rear half )
1900713;1551907829;asciilifeform;but afaik no one yet published an entire one.
1900714;1551907903;*;asciilifeform for instance would luvv to log #pizarro and #asciilifeform , say, with own hands, but dun currently have time to write a frontend, and finds it peculiar that nobody's seen it fit to genesis theirs, srsly how many times does that 1 proggy gotta be reinvented
1900715;1551907955;asciilifeform;diana_coman: congrats on fix
1900716;1551907961;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ty
1900717;1551907984;diana_coman;asciilifeform, thank you
1900718;1551913614;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform afaik both lobbes and spyked are working towards this : http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/11/conveyor-outlook-now-to-feb-2019/#selection-103.0-103.42 and http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html respectively.
1900719;1551913622;asciilifeform;aah neato
1900720;1551913692;mircea_popescu;not being reinvented or anything, just, it's a large thing because of all the trims.
1900721;1551913706;asciilifeform;i still wonder why phf and ben_vulpes didn't take a shot at genesising theirs ( asciilifeform , for instance, posted the phuctor frontend, fwliw )
1900722;1551913732;asciilifeform;if these were available, could stand up a logger in 10min or so..
1900723;1551913840;mircea_popescu;afaik both the current developments are following code published by trinque that comes off ben_vulpes 's logger. this is perfectly fine, too, and no it's not "10 minutes", again because of all the trims.
1900724;1551913891;mircea_popescu;not sure why phf hadn't, but possibly because it's a finnicky setup on a lispmachine he can't reproduce, ie, the "10 minutes" in that case'd have included a decade's worth of encuntoo-ating whatever cl pile he uses.
1900725;1551913934;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the published bot genesis takes care of the irc mechanics and the db write ; what's missing is the wwwistic front end
1900726;1551913979;mircea_popescu;well eg in lobbes 's case there's also an auction thing, and the archiving bit, and so on ; in spyked's case there's also a lot of rss and so on.
1900727;1551914023;mircea_popescu;but fundamentally yes, the reason the tree's not cut exactly to your measure's that you never cut it yourself.
1900728;1551914063;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you look at http://btcbase.org/patches/logbot-genesis , it aint 'not cut', it's entirely missing any www-display coad
1900729;1551914079;mircea_popescu;tru.
1900730;1551914099;asciilifeform;would have to write it by hand. ( could use phuctor's as a base, but would rather not perpetrate another pythonism.. )
1900731;1551914140;asciilifeform;and asciilifeform is actually sticking to mircea_popescu's admonition to not divert from conveyor contents, so i'ma not do this any time soon
1900732;1551914149;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes 's display not included i dunno why ; phf's not included for the stated reason, obscure cl machine ; lobbes 's not included because in order to be able to patch it, he had to fix various things first, you were here for the "techniocal debt" discussion last year.
1900733;1551914159;asciilifeform;right
1900734;1551914192;mircea_popescu;which is exactly the point : they're cutting their own trees because they're their own. if you were cutting it, conceivably it'd be with phuctor python, that being yours, and so o.
1900735;1551914194;mircea_popescu;on*
1900736;1551914309;mircea_popescu;anyway, they'd prolly be closer to being done, so you wouldn't find yourself in the position of "no logger for pizarro", except they got sent to do auction bot fixes and gutenberg mirror respectively, if you recall.
1900737;1551914321;mircea_popescu;the costs of these things.
1900738;1551914359;*;mircea_popescu expects ben_vulpes reboots mimi in short order and the matter goes away ; otherwise we'll see wtf to do about this.
1900739;1551914561;asciilifeform;trinque said that ben_vulpes is alive , so i expect he'll reboot .
1900740;1551914675;*;asciilifeform finds it interesting that 'bot self-resetting when fleanode pisses into its mouth' is still open problem
1900741;1551914713;asciilifeform;my own bot, and presumably errything else that uses trinque's orig mechanism, is similarly afflicted
1900742;1551914746;asciilifeform;( not a bite at trinque , i suspect it is genuinely stiff problem , fleanode apparently throws ~random garbage )
1900743;1551915953;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/newly-documented-intel-speculative-memory-management-bug-affects-all-generations-of-intel-core-cpus-makes-rowhammering-much-easier/ << Qntra -- Newly Documented Intel Speculative Memory Management Bug Affects All Generations Of Intel "Core" CPUs, Makes ROWHAMMERing Much Easier
1900744;1551916091;asciilifeform;^ loox like theoretically afflicts even the venerable x60-era intels. ( aside from the detail that ddr2 aint, as i currently understand, rowhammerable )
1900745;1551916230;BingoBoingo;More fake speed
1900746;1551916262;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-110.0-125.164 << oblig fakespeed
1900747;1551916503;BingoBoingo;That was in the "old" days. Intel has moved on to disappearing Quantum bathtubs for catapulting
1900748;1551916538;asciilifeform;ye olde nobusfactory.
1900749;1551916627;BingoBoingo;Well, look a it the other way. Intel has been shipping actual quantum computers for over a decade. Now not quantum in an useful way, and possibly quantum in the worst way, but as quantum in the most commercially relevant way so far.
1900750;1551916645;asciilifeform;lol
1900751;1551916673;asciilifeform;schroedinger's cpu.
1900752;1551917401;trinque;asciilifeform: shape of it as I vaguely recall is that the bot-stuck-away state looks like bot-connected from PoV of bot
1900753;1551917419;asciilifeform;trinque: that's as far as i was able to get when walked through it , aha
1900754;1551917432;trinque;I can't say for sure until I instrument the thing with slime and wait for it to happen
1900755;1551917455;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/lo-sceicco-bianco/ << Trilema -- Lo sceicco bianco
1900756;1551919589;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform check it out, i wonder why we all only used amds. what suckers we were, and all that.
1900757;1551920343;asciilifeform;but was our proof proofyenuff!!111
1900758;1551926221;ben_vulpes;noches, todos
1900759;1551926221;lobbesbot;ben_vulpes: Sent 6 hours and 12 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> mimibot appears to be down
1900760;1551926226;ben_vulpes;ty BingoBoingo
1900761;1551926236;BingoBoingo;np ben_vulpes
1900762;1551926255;BingoBoingo;How is Texscadia treating you?
1900763;1551926332;mod6;howdy
1900764;1551926520;ben_vulpes;for all that the place is nominally filled with capitalists, nobody here drives like time is a rapidly exhausting resource. i seem to have landed in a town largely flavored like portland. nobody knows how to make coffee, and the region doesn't produce much by way of wine. but! where portland was the largest metropolis for a good hundred and fifty miles in any direction (and cavorted with airs to match), this
1900765;1551926522;ben_vulpes;place is the 3rd or 4th largest population-wise and has much more humility and concomittantly a vastly greater depth to the sell-side of pretty much everything.
1900766;1551926525;ben_vulpes;heya mod6
1900767;1551926840;asciilifeform;wb ben_vulpes
1900768;1551926951;ben_vulpes;ty asciilifeform, but it'll be short and i'll dive for some more time yet.
1900769;1551927170;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you building a house or wat
1900770;1551927440;ben_vulpes;nothing so exciting; simply stacking up a tiny pile of variously purple and pink 'greenbacks' to exchange for sheetrock and buttcorns.
1900771;1551928136;ben_vulpes;either tending to my manorial lands, or carving my fortune out of passing stagecoaches, depending on the day. the glittering court, most elevated discourses, high-octane cultronium etc readily distract me from the husbandry that capitalizes. also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1875979 spooked me.
1900772;1551928136;a111;Logged on 2018-11-29 17:10 Mocky: in truth i do feel like idjit for being old man without the brains to have saved anything. i don't even have a workshop full of shit like asciilifeform
1900773;1551929125;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: nuffin wrong with that; so long as also keep in mind http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835153
1900774;1551929125;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 17:05 asciilifeform: '...Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal...' etc
1900775;1551929343;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: since yer buying coinz , can i interest you in another machine purchase for piz ?
1900776;1551929350;asciilifeform;same type as prev.
1900777;1551929479;mircea_popescu;an excellent choice in what to be spooked by, sir.
1900778;1551929635;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: politely decline, but should the merry bandits catch the tax collector's carriage unawares i know where to place my buy orders.
1900779;1551929732;asciilifeform;hard to picture an easier coin than this, but aite
1900780;1551930110;ben_vulpes;can't buy sheetrock nor coin without waylaying stagecoaches, asciilifeform.
1900781;1551930168;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: in theory the logs are endlessly educational! in practice, learning takes practice.
1900782;1551937705;hanbot;BingoBoingo: plox to go ahead an' reboot yonder s.nsa spare when convenient.
1900783;1551941099;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-october-november-and-december-1714-part-iv/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of October, November and December, 1714. - Part IV.
1900784;1551944543;mircea_popescu;anyone wanna paypal 5 bux for me ?
1900785;1551972043;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Will reboot it today
1900786;1551973957;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'll do it if it's a normal pp , but if it's like the last one it prolly won't work from my machine
1900787;1551973969;trinque;hanbot: the unmounting thing isn't really specific to my script. absent umount -R you're off the rails provided
1900788;1551974384;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kR3sx/?raw=true
1900789;1551974429;mircea_popescu;trinque looks like something wedged her /sys , whatever partition that's on.
1900790;1551974715;auctionbot;Buy order # 1042 has ENDED: 500 WFF, WU esta bien SOLD by PeterL for 154mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo
1900791;1551975148;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ok, lessee..
1900792;1551975245;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell PeterL http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/g9R7A/?raw=true WU Information. Please take the time to get this settled within the next 24 hours because frankly... You aren't around much.
1900793;1551975245;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1900794;1551975286;mircea_popescu;he's around when he's doing something, i noticed.
1900795;1551975307;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: seems to have worked.
1900796;1551975322;mircea_popescu;ie, a more practical avenue might be perhaps to invite the fellow to join your own castle ? what's he to do otherwise, get himself banned here ?
1900797;1551975330;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'ma log out, then see if went.
1900798;1551975335;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform o hey, nice, tyvm! what's the damage ?
1900799;1551975336;mircea_popescu;a ok
1900800;1551975355;asciilifeform;exactly the quoted sum
1900801;1551975387;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: np, enjoy
1900802;1551975394;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yup confirmed!
1900803;1551975415;mircea_popescu;but plox quote in actual coin rather than monopoly money ?
1900804;1551975460;asciilifeform;hm do we have an automated knob for this yet
1900805;1551975489;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: can you link to the last known figure plox ?
1900806;1551975524;asciilifeform;i'm still waking up, coming up empty when digging
1900807;1551975543;BingoBoingo;http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/#selection-57.0-57.31 asciilifeform
1900808;1551975550;asciilifeform;danke schon BingoBoingo
1900809;1551975557;BingoBoingo;Looking like there will be no exchange rate movement for March
1900810;1551975636;asciilifeform;4.99 / 3247 ~= 0.00153680
1900811;1551975703;*;asciilifeform brb,tea
1900812;1551975711;BingoBoingo;!!up PeterL
1900813;1551975712;deedbot;PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
1900814;1551975920;PeterL;bingoboing, which key did you encrypt that to? I got gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available ?
1900815;1551975920;lobbesbot;PeterL: Sent 11 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/g9R7A/?raw=true WU Information. Please take the time to get this settled within the next 24 hours because frankly... You aren't around much.
1900816;1551975968;BingoBoingo;I encrypted to the one I have in my ring labeled "Peter Lambert"
1900817;1551976004;PeterL;does it match the one deedbot has?
1900818;1551976009;BingoBoingo;Will grab key off of deedbot and try again
1900819;1551976080;BingoBoingo;PeterL:  http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NSA7Z/?raw=true
1900820;1551976162;PeterL;ok, got it, I will get that done today
1900821;1551976203;BingoBoingo;Thank you. Keep coming back, maybe idle in #Pizarro?
1900822;1551976696;BingoBoingo;Depending on when you get to it, I may not be able to confirm pickup until tomorrow. This is GMT-3 timezone and the last places to pickup close at 21:00. They usually have lines so figure 23:00 GMT is the cut off for a same day send and pickup.
1900823;1551977015;mircea_popescu;!!pay asciilifeform 0.00153680
1900824;1551977021;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/olVxg/?raw=true
1900825;1551977482;BingoBoingo;PeterL: There's also a 10 digit number you'll get. That's what I need to do the pickup.
1900826;1551978003;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/things-you-didnt-know-about-awstats/ << Trilema -- Things you didn't know about Awstats
1900827;1551978752;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu
1900828;1551980183;mircea_popescu;nono, ty.
1900829;1551980875;*;asciilifeform happy to be of use.
1900830;1551980973;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900826 << this is pretty interesting to asciilifeform ; believe or not, i've never used automatic log eater, all of my stats since i 1st had a www, go through unspeakable handwritten perlisms
1900831;1551980973;a111;Logged on 2019-03-07 17:00 feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/things-you-didnt-know-about-awstats/ << Trilema -- Things you didn't know about Awstats
1900832;1551980985;asciilifeform;i gotta try this item
1900833;1551982716;mircea_popescu;it's a perl script anyways.
1900834;1551983033;asciilifeform;oblig 'is that a real program, or is that something somebody wrote?'(tm)(r)
1900835;1551983061;PeterL;bingoboingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BEtZ0/?raw=true
1900836;1551983122;BingoBoingo;PeterL: Tyvm. I'll head out to pick it up in a bit
1900837;1551983338;BingoBoingo;PeterL: Please !!invoice BingoBoingo 0.154 [reason: won the auction]
1900838;1551983398;PeterL;!!invoice BingoBoingo 0.154 Pizarro WFF Auction 7Mar2019
1900839;1551983411;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DQOv9/?raw=true
1900840;1551983460;PeterL;!!v 5D8EBFDACDD1F946B5BA2CB5938BA1916E4FE984DE1A2F1E0148AB914FC54139
1900841;1551983465;deedbot;Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.154 << Pizarro WFF Auction 7Mar2019
1900842;1551983478;BingoBoingo;ty
1900843;1551984016;auctionbot;Sell order # 1044 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo
1900844;1551986636;BingoBoingo;!!v EDC9961880E75B1953DEA2448A2027C6131AA60D3E8FBF2F61D20B72945AA51A
1900845;1551986640;deedbot;BingoBoingo paid PeterL invoice 1
1900846;1551986650;BingoBoingo;Pickup was a success, thank you PeterL
1900847;1551986692;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: seems like wu worx, but only from usa..?
1900848;1551986708;BingoBoingo;That is my suspicion
1900849;1551986746;asciilifeform;unsurprising, afaik mainly is used by miamihajis, to send orcbux home
1900850;1551986775;BingoBoingo;There's a decision matrix here: Inside US y/n, if yes WU is available and less expensive. Otherwise bank wire.
1900851;1551986790;*;asciilifeform gets spanish spamola by the gigatonne, since signing up for acct there
1900852;1551987067;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/huawei-sues-usg-over-blackballing/ << Qntra -- Huawei Sues USG Over Blackballing
1900853;1551987352;PeterL;WU only cost 8 bucks to send to bingoboingostan. Lady at the counter asked "you know this person?" "yes." "This isn't a telemarketer, is it?" "um, no" - such great fraud prevention
1900854;1551989052;BingoBoingo;Still, more fraud prevention than RIPple offers
1900855;1551989084;*;BingoBoingo murdering limes for the ceviche
1900856;1551989880;BingoBoingo;PeterL: To be fair, she probably also thought Uruguay is in Africa
1900857;1551992432;PeterL;lol, Uruguay, Uganda, Ubuntu - they sound pretty close to me
1900858;1551994149;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/us-fda-approves-dissociative-anesthetic-to-treat-living-in-the-us/ << Qntra -- US FDA Approves Dissociative Anesthetic To "Treat" Living In The US
1900859;1551994192;mircea_popescu;that's fucking beautiful. huawei suing us congress over being a rat'\s nest. this shall be a lulz to watch.
1900860;1551994284;mircea_popescu;anyway, the objection is sound -- all weimars everywhere end up "parliamentarist" before going away.
1900861;1551994293;mircea_popescu;who knew a parliament is not a functional system!
1900862;1551994485;BingoBoingo;And in this case the USG is decidedly handicapped when it comes to the "exhaust wallet with waiting" litigation strategy
1900863;1551995076;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ketamine, lol! when asciilifeform was research slave for us army, they were offering comparatively impressive sums (coupla thou) to anyone willing to take ketamine and run labyrinths / do various puzzlers
1900864;1551995125;asciilifeform;asciilifeform did not go, and to this day i have nfi how many takers
1900865;1551995178;asciilifeform;'The drug, developed by Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen subsidiary, is intended to be used with another antidepressant, and only by people who have already tried two and don’t feel better' << lol, 'approved' so long as dun threaten ye olde chemlobotomy racket
1900866;1551995331;asciilifeform;'it is likely that esketamine treatments will be covered by insurance and that it will have fewer side effects than ketamine' << the main 'side effect' was not being patentable, lol
1900867;1551995349;asciilifeform;'enantiomeric' patent -- cheapest trick in that box
1900868;1551995432;asciilifeform;i have nfi how and why putting sumthing through a column is patentable. but it aint any odder than the rest of that racket.
1900869;1551995518;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i expect it'll go approx like the at&t phone tap lawsuit -- usg invokes 'sovereign immunity' and that's it
1900870;1551997982;mircea_popescu;not if china throne says no.
1900871;1551998038;mircea_popescu;this is the truth pantsuit vehehehery carefully tiptoes around every time they're "discussing" usg's foreign policy outlay : usg is a chinese vassal, it has to ask for permission.
1900872;1551998422;BingoBoingo;Hence the Putin liked Trump more than Clitler fuss. Distracts from China owning the Senate wholesale.
1900873;1551999389;BingoBoingo;In other news, from the kids and clutched perls front: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GF5Up/?raw=true
1900874;1552000270;mircea_popescu;wait till kids figure out en masse they can opt out of those stultifying "assemblies" by being "racist"
1900875;1552000516;asciilifeform;lol that's the school obummer sent his spawn to
1900876;1552000671;asciilifeform;reminds me of a famous (in the right circles) incident in su, in 1981
1900877;1552000734;asciilifeform;buncha kids, mostly of local party elite, seekritly sewed themselves some semblance of ss uniform, and raised swastica flag at night on city hall; then marched to cemetery and laid half a tonne of flowers on old white army graves
1900878;1552000793;asciilifeform;( item was hushed up, best as they could , fathers demoted, sons sent to army , etc )
1900879;1552000881;asciilifeform;there were rumours of other, similar escapades.
1900880;1552000934;asciilifeform;( tbf most of the surviving evidence is on the level of rumour and innuendo )
1900881;1552001286;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/ymXhV << imho most complete / least obv. bogus src. on subj.
1900882;1552001348;asciilifeform;in '50s, 'punk' kidz 'heiled' not only hitler, but... eisenhauer.
1900883;1552001403;asciilifeform;... and tito! ( + buncha other figures painted in sovok propaganda as 'devils' )
1900884;1552001443;asciilifeform;some folx think all of this summed to 0 ; others -- 'to dead sovok'
1900885;1552001453;asciilifeform;only beelzebub knows for fact.
1900886;1552001836;asciilifeform;was, incidentally, the Official excuse behind the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1891016 ban
1900887;1552001836;a111;Logged on 2019-01-30 23:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890969 << was karatism ultra-popular in '80s ro, like in late sovok ? ( there, was ubiquitous, esp. on acct of being Officially verboten )
1900888;1552001847;asciilifeform;'karatekas are cover for nazis' etc
1900889;1552009413;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in 'men alone', https://www.floodgap.com/etc/machines.html
1900890;1552014525;hanbot;BingoBoingo et al: re s.nsa spare, check this out: p.bvulpes.com/pastes/m4ESw/?raw=true
1900891;1552014600;asciilifeform;hanbot: it's a livecd, naturally regens host key erry time you revv it up
1900892;1552014634;asciilifeform;hanbot: if you're concerned re mitm, ask BingoBoingo to log in via console and gpg you the current hostkey to
1900893;1552014635;asciilifeform;morrow
1900894;1552014687;asciilifeform;( and/or log in via your shell acct , where you know the host key already )
1900895;1552014695;asciilifeform;on the uy1, that is ^
1900896;1552014699;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat
1900897;1552015807;hanbot;BingoBoingo please gpg-gram me credentials as per last coupla reboots.
1900898;1552017493;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/il-bidone/ << Trilema -- Il bidone
1900899;1552019687;BingoBoingo;hanbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bz2eO/?raw=true Sorry about that. I thought I fired the GPGgram off from the cage.
1900900;1552019813;BingoBoingo;It's in my client's log but not the BTCBASE log
1900901;1552020455;hanbot;BingoBoingo: i'm in, tyvm.
1900902;1552034418;feedbot;http://thewhet.net/2019/03/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-iii-with-prep-script/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part III, with Prep Script
1900903;1552042106;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900726 <-- incidentally, there is some overlap between logotron web interface and web-based img pastetron: both need www code, which I will genesis as soon as I have a working item
1900904;1552042106;a111;Logged on 2019-03-06 23:12 mircea_popescu: well eg in lobbes 's case there's also an auction thing, and the archiving bit, and so on ; in spyked's case there's also a lot of rss and so on.
1900905;1552042223;spyked;moreover, the same item will be useful for adding comments to thetarpit's cl blogotron, implementing mp-wp-anti-spam for the same, etc.
1900906;1552050542;asciilifeform;in other noose, adlai apparently sobered up, and blogs, http://80.244.243.194:7421
1900907;1552050582;asciilifeform;seems to be in medical school or sumthing like.
1900908;1552056332;BingoBoingo;In other news, power and internet down in Vzla
1900909;1552056473;BingoBoingo;Apparently dam sabotage is involved
1900910;1552059665;asciilifeform;humanitarian(tm)(r) democratic(tm)(r) sabotage
1900911;1552063342;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/venezuelas-guri-dam-and-simon-bolivar-hydroelectric-plant-sabotaged-leading-to-blackouts/ << Qntra -- Venezuela's Guri Dam And Simn Bolvar Hydroelectric Plant Sabotaged Leading To Blackouts
1900912;1552063440;asciilifeform;'US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Maduro’s government only has itself to blame for power shortages in Venezuela, noting sarcastically that “Maduro’s policies bring nothing but darkness.”' << lol!!
1900913;1552063493;BingoBoingo;That's Madame Secretary
1900914;1552063554;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile local derps trying to statnerd over Uruguay being relatively expensive without a discussion of the Ham scam https://archive.is/DqocT
1900915;1552065624;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-november-and-december-1715-part-vi/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of November and December, 1715. - Part VI.
1900916;1552067089;hanbot;woke up to my latest cuntoo boostrap.sh tryout to find it hanging on this input request: "Gentoo Linux support (GENTOO_LINUX) [Y/n/?] (NEW)", this after "Restart config...". I take it this is some sorta flag, but what am i yes/no-ing here? what kinda question is that?!
1900917;1552067588;asciilifeform;hanbot: i can tell you ~what~ you saw, tho not yet why : the linux kernel make starts asking itemized config q's if it sees sumthing in the given config that dun add up to something 'menuconfig' could have shat out, by its lights ( e.g. a module for $device is enabled, but 1 of its deps aint )
1900918;1552067633;asciilifeform;hanbot: this also happens when you used a config baked for a certain kernel, but then feed it to another (usually moar recent) kernel's make
1900919;1552067646;asciilifeform;it sees sumthing unexpected, and switches to manual derpery
1900920;1552067727;asciilifeform;nao what i do not know, is how this scenario can play out using trinque's cuntoo kit -- iirc he includes both a particular kernel source and a config (for 1 of his irons) that was known to be edible by it
1900921;1552067767;asciilifeform;hanbot: did you perchance hand-tune something in that config prior to building kernel ?
1900922;1552067841;asciilifeform;'found I could replicate mod6's process of copying the .config file in /usr/src/linux into the cuntoo/config directory' suggests that this build was using a non-trinqueian .config ?
1900923;1552067854;asciilifeform;where did the copied one come from orig.?
1900924;1552067994;asciilifeform;!!up lobbes_field
1900925;1552067995;deedbot;lobbes_field voiced for 30 minutes.
1900926;1552067999;lobbes_field;Fwiw, the same happened to me with all my cuntoo runs that used my own 'custom' kernel config (versus trinque's provided config).
1900927;1552068007;lobbes_field;Ty asciilifeform
1900928;1552068054;asciilifeform;lobbes_field: imho it's an asinine default behaviour of linus's builder ; tho the alternative ( build a ball of ??? that fails to boot ) may be equally asinine
1900929;1552068061;asciilifeform;so he took the 'simpler evil'
1900930;1552068090;hanbot;asciilifeform it's just copied from the .config in /usr/src/linux on the liveusb
1900931;1552068113;asciilifeform;hanbot: that answers it then. that one contains some flag that trinque's kernel has nfi what to do with.
1900932;1552068121;asciilifeform;and, annoyingly, won't say which.
1900933;1552068130;asciilifeform;( this is to be brought up at linus's impalement )
1900934;1552068157;hanbot;cool.
1900935;1552068183;asciilifeform;the way i handle this , is when building kernel with an older config, i use the menuconfig util, and have it eat the prev config
1900936;1552068188;asciilifeform;then manually walk over the result
1900937;1552068229;asciilifeform;this is prolly not an answr that will make hanbot happy. the only good news is, this only gotta be done 1ce per kernel-iron combo.
1900938;1552068307;asciilifeform;iirc trinque had an experimental proggy that takes a running kernel's lspci / lsmod output, and diddles an existing config so as to give a kernel that boots on $iron . but afaik not yet published.
1900939;1552068344;asciilifeform;( if you were to take trinque's example config, your kernel will boot but will panic when looks for root partition, as it won't find that iron's raid card )
1900940;1552068396;asciilifeform;hanbot: see if you can build using http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/conf_current.conf , it is an asciilifeform-sewn config for the specific iron you happen to be on
1900941;1552068419;asciilifeform;( trimmed manually )
1900942;1552068451;asciilifeform;all pizarro-owned x86 boxen in the rack, are currently using this config
1900943;1552068467;hanbot;ty asciilifeform, will give it a whirl.
1900944;1552068469;asciilifeform;( and of course the snsa-operated dulap )
1900945;1552068478;asciilifeform;hanbot: lemme know if you run into barf
1900946;1552068485;hanbot;yup
1900947;1552068679;asciilifeform;hanbot: if it ends up asking you q's , like prev. time, feel free to press 'enter' and let it give the default answers -- they come from the existing config (when available) and from default of the given kernel's (if not) . this generally gives bootable kernel, that you can trim later at your leisure.
1900948;1552068762;asciilifeform;( i.e. it ~may~ end up containing useless modules, that you will later want to cut out, but ~will~ contain the necessaries given in the supplied config )
1900949;1552068800;lobbes_field;^^ was the approach I took. Accepted defaults n' manually walked it after I confirmed it booted
1900950;1552068845;asciilifeform;since mircea_popescu is asleep, i'ma 'fill in' for him and note ftr that the necessity for this process is indeed a warcrime of the gnutards, and really not how sane configurator of any kind oughta work
1900951;1552068879;asciilifeform;sadly it's how the current ball o'crapola worx.
1900952;1552068923;asciilifeform;why linus et al did not supply a ready-built http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900938 util, remains a mystery to asciilifeform , just as he found it mystery in '90s
1900953;1552068923;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 18:05 asciilifeform: iirc trinque had an experimental proggy that takes a running kernel's lspci / lsmod output, and diddles an existing config so as to give a kernel that boots on $iron . but afaik not yet published.
1900954;1552069004;asciilifeform;the obv hypothesis is that the gnutards ended up happy with the position where 'priesthood' builds kernels and users blindly eat the binaries, etc
1900955;1552070796;mod6;hanbot: I did see these questions pop up too while doing the cuntoo bootstrap.  This in particular happened to me after I copied my working gentoo kernel from /usr/src/linux/.config to cuntoo/myCopiedConfig, then replaced all of the =m with =y ( sed -i 's/=m/=y/' myCopiedConfig).
1900956;1552070826;mod6;Anyway, nice write & script!
1900957;1552071156;mod6;*write up
1900958;1552082648;*;mircea_popescu waves
1900959;1552082874;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900888 << very best korea flavour to the whole thing.
1900960;1552082874;a111;Logged on 2019-03-07 23:37 asciilifeform: 'karatekas are cover for nazis' etc
1900961;1552082889;mircea_popescu;"racism is cover for capitalism" ongoing in oither soviet as we speak.
1900962;1552082931;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900889 << lost interest at "This panorama scrolls horizontally".
1900963;1552082931;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 01:43 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'men alone', https://www.floodgap.com/etc/machines.html
1900964;1552082976;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900905 << seitanly.
1900965;1552082976;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 10:50 spyked: moreover, the same item will be useful for adding comments to thetarpit's cl blogotron, implementing mp-wp-anti-spam for the same, etc.
1900966;1552083054;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900912 << check it out, bolivar socialism and roosevelt socialism competing on ye olde marotes, "who brings true light" etcetera.
1900967;1552083054;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 16:44 asciilifeform: 'US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Maduro’s government only has itself to blame for power shortages in Venezuela, noting sarcastically that “Maduro’s policies bring nothing but darkness.”' << lol!!
1900968;1552083076;mircea_popescu;most amusing element -- neither of the "parties" involved read as much as a line of ye olde menshevik-bolshevik disputes.
1900969;1552083236;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900937 << her script is getting ever more complex lol.
1900970;1552083236;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 18:03 asciilifeform: this is prolly not an answr that will make hanbot happy. the only good news is, this only gotta be done 1ce per kernel-iron combo.
1900971;1552084008;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900954 << seems quite evidently a case of "here in orc cvasirepublic, we rely on implicits to do the job where understanding wtf's going on would have been useful".
1900972;1552084008;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 18:16 asciilifeform: the obv hypothesis is that the gnutards ended up happy with the position where 'priesthood' builds kernels and users blindly eat the binaries, etc
1900973;1552084228;asciilifeform;guten tag mircea_popescu !
1900974;1552084336;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900962 << near as i could tell, subj is a kind of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693150 , i.e. junkyard dog
1900975;1552084336;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 22:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900889 << lost interest at "This panorama scrolls horizontally".
1900976;1552084336;a111;Logged on 2017-08-03 03:38 asciilifeform: https://symbolics.lisp.engineer/goals << in other lulz.
1900977;1552084405;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900966 << not clear to me that 'isms' are in play : afaik it's moar of the thing where the anglos have same relation to other folx as worm to apple
1900978;1552084405;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 22:10 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900912 << check it out, bolivar socialism and roosevelt socialism competing on ye olde marotes, "who brings true light" etcetera.
1900979;1552084407;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/03/08/ceviche-theory-and-practice/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Ceviche Theory And Practice
1900980;1552084602;BingoBoingo;Venezolana today during spanish class logistics talk made of a point of how maduro was blaming the "Imperialists" for the blackout. I offered that it was almost certainly the imperialists, breaking shit is part of their regime change recipe.
1900981;1552084635;asciilifeform;oh hey BingoBoingo how didja get her out of vuvuzelistan ?
1900982;1552084657;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: She's still there. Can't help people with things they refuse help for.
1900983;1552084689;asciilifeform;lol she has mains current ? potato battery ?
1900984;1552084716;BingoBoingo;Well, she had about 45 minutes of mains current today
1900985;1552084726;asciilifeform;very korea
1900986;1552084778;BingoBoingo;Well, when you put a third of your generation capacity in the same damn dam...
1900987;1552084784;asciilifeform;( how do you suppose korea ended up korea )
1900988;1552084886;BingoBoingo;They ate the battery potatoes?
1900989;1552084897;asciilifeform;prior to usg-engineered 'international' blockage, ~north~ was the industrial kr.
1900990;1552084907;asciilifeform;*blockade
1900991;1552092700;hanbot;so there i am merrily entering choices into the kernel config's endless querying on the tail of my cuntoo installation attempt, and i'm noting down all the modules it asks about that don't appear in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900940 for posterity, during which i ctrl + c on the wrong of the two keyboards i'm handling while trying to copy a module name and bam, make dies, which means kernel configuring dies, which means bootstrap.sh dies,
1900992;1552092700;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 18:06 asciilifeform: hanbot: see if you can build using http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/conf_current.conf , it is an asciilifeform-sewn config for the specific iron you happen to be on
1900993;1552092701;hanbot;which means i have yet another incomplete cuntoo install with no vpatch and yet no way to start again without another freakin' reboot. it's like walking a tightrope, here i was worried the power'd go out or w/e, but no, fingers got confused after 30m of back and forth, fuck me.
1900994;1552092755;mircea_popescu;hanbot this sounds like EXACTLY what the problem has been, all these years.
1900995;1552092791;mircea_popescu;there's a difference between selecting for intelligent users and selecting for inept hoop jumping acrobatic users -- and "foss" managed to implement the 2nd kind while loudly making postureclaims as to everything under the sun.
1900996;1552092809;mircea_popescu;in this very specific sense, "free and open source" is WAY worse than microsoft apple etc.
1900997;1552092846;mircea_popescu;but no, linux never worked.
1900998;1552092989;hanbot;i dunno, shit's supposed to fail if you do the wrong thing. possibly i'm a moron for making it too easy to do the wrong thing, keyboards oughta be 10ft apart, give second to surgical assistant, whatever. but it is fucking frustrating.
1900999;1552093046;asciilifeform;hanbot: mine are min. of 1m apart always, for this reason. this dun mean that mircea_popescu is wrong tho, re opensores.
1901000;1552093072;asciilifeform;tho it aint clear to me than the e.g. crapple rituals, make any moar sense
1901001;1552093098;asciilifeform;( the subj of microshit, i'll spare, tho could expound.. )
1901002;1552093140;asciilifeform;'killer micro'(tm) never 'worked' arguably.
1901003;1552093196;asciilifeform;most complicated mechanism i ever used that 'works' , in light of mircea_popescu's concept thereof, is.. idk, kalash
1901004;1552093231;asciilifeform;errything else seems to require fiddling.
1901005;1552094280;mircea_popescu;dude, this "x distance apart" is like the fucking speed bumps. brilliant fucking idea, "how about everyone pays a tax so that some edge cases benefit"
1901006;1552094291;mircea_popescu;fuck that dumb shit.
1901007;1552094485;mircea_popescu;in more practical sense : ctrl-C is broken-by-design, in that it is ambiguously used to either mean "kill this task" or "kill all tasks". note how ctrl-c doesn't kill THE TERMINAL. it needs ctrl-d for that.
1901008;1552094512;mircea_popescu;which is JUST AS BROKEN BY DESIGN. ctrl-d will end a file AND kill a terminal, but not touch a task. ctrl-c will kill n levels of task depth, as in her example, FOUR.
1901009;1552094516;mircea_popescu;this is fucking stupid all through.
1901010;1552094564;mircea_popescu;time and again we're back to ye olde "oh, line, you mean paragraph" pile of accidentally-grown-never-designed festering sores.
1901011;1552095657;asciilifeform;whole concept of 'current task' is perlesque liquishit
1901012;1552095748;asciilifeform;e.g. you ctrl-c and it nukes ~child~ of process however many layers deep, as in hanbot's example, and instead of propagating the kill up the tree, 'returns' barf uptree
1901013;1552095870;asciilifeform;witness also, how unitardix makes 0 distinguish b/w operator- and mechanism- initiated processes
1901014;1552095934;asciilifeform;'ok, ctrl-c? i'll assume you meant the last of the 9000 jobs you just spawned, right'
1901015;1552095975;asciilifeform;hanbot's ctrlc only propagated cuz script was linear.
1901016;1552096063;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if some part of the shitstack 'was designed', i cannot say what it was
1901017;1552096093;asciilifeform;it was 'designed' like dog 'designs' turd as it emerges from arse.
1901018;1552096412;hanbot;BingoBoingo please reboot me yetagain, with my compliments to your soles.
1901019;1552098413;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Is it alright if the reboot waits until morning?
1901020;1552098599;BingoBoingo;Eh, I'm still up. Will put the shoes back on and remember to open the terminal before I take shoes off text walk
1901021;1552098608;trinque;y'all are having hanbot work in a livecd?
1901022;1552098616;trinque;this is cruel even by bdsm standards.
1901023;1552098653;BingoBoingo;It's a gentoo liveusb, but yes it is seeming so
1901024;1552098801;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900952 << he did, as I've said before http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=localyesconfig
1901025;1552098801;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 18:15 asciilifeform: why linus et al did not supply a ready-built http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900938 util, remains a mystery to asciilifeform , just as he found it mystery in '90s
1901026;1552098859;asciilifeform;oh hm.
1901027;1552098866;asciilifeform;gotta try this
1901028;1552099093;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-08#1900931 << it's actualy the opposite. kernel makefile found that .config lacked a value for a *new* key present in the trinque-supplied kernel, so asked for a value, suggesting default.
1901029;1552099093;a111;Logged on 2019-03-08 18:01 asciilifeform: hanbot: that answers it then. that one contains some flag that trinque's kernel has nfi what to do with.
1901030;1552099772;asciilifeform;trinque: outta curiosity, hiw didja deduce this ? afaik barf is same in both scenarios?
1901031;1552100686;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yRAfP/?raw=true reset
1901032;1552100686;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1901033;1552100872;trinque;asciilifeform: that gentoo-specific patchset question is because these patches are present in "gentoo sources"
1901034;1552100920;trinque;your asking did however send me on a spelunk through scripts/kconfig/conf.c by way of ./scripts/kconfig/Makefile
1901035;1552101469;hanbot;BingoBoingo tyvm!
1901036;1552101470;lobbesbot;hanbot: Sent 13 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yRAfP/?raw=true reset
1901037;1552101792;trinque;this some serious dick-cheese and cum-socks tier c, gotos and all.
1901038;1552103675;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform myeah.
1901039;1552137152;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/088-gutenberg-iv.html << The Tar Pit -- Gutenberg ASCII archive updated, now with 0.5% less junk
1901040;1552145629;asciilifeform;spyked: download link is broken, redirects to 404
1901041;1552145754;asciilifeform;spyked: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Jmgst/?raw=true
1901042;1552148443;asciilifeform;trinque: deedbot wedged ?
1901043;1552149100;spyked;asciilifeform, I applied mircea_popescu's pill to block spam-linkers. pl0x to set referrer to http://thetarpit.org or http://lucian.mogosanu.ro
1901044;1552151453;asciilifeform;spyked: aaa, seems to work, ty
1901045;1552152034;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in unixtardation : apparently there is no known way to change PATH envir. var. for ~running~ processes globally
1901046;1552152371;asciilifeform;( why ? asciilifeform , for instance, sometimes gotta switch gnats , and the emacsen dun see it )
1901047;1552153463;mircea_popescu;spyked prolly should redirect to explanation tho. 404 is ambiguous here
1901048;1552154808;*;asciilifeform bbl : ffa room
1901049;1552160613;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893431 -> kid settled atm on heroes of might and magic II and can think of nothing else! he choose Necromancer ("which one has stronger troops?") and so he is working out ...percentages to know how many skeletons he should get.
1901050;1552160613;a111;Logged on 2019-02-07 19:12 asciilifeform: diana_coman: np. lemme know which flavours the kid ended up liking, i may have moar in the depths of the warez chests along those lines.
1901051;1552161456;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/sears-sued-by-stanley-black-and-decker-over-limited-line-clause-in-craftsman-sales-agreement/ << Qntra -- Sears Sued By Stanley Black And Decker Over "Limited Line" Clause In Craftsman Sales Agreement
1901052;1552167433;asciilifeform;spyked et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/gutentext.tar.xz << mirror (replaced the old tarball)
1901053;1552167451;asciilifeform;diana_coman: neato, i once spent half a summer in 'heroes 2' also
1901054;1552168238;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/ffa-chapter-9-homework-comba-in-x86_64-assembly/ << bvt's backtrace -- FFA Chapter 9 Homework: Comba in X86_64 Assembly
1901055;1552169429;asciilifeform;!Q later tell bvt http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/ffa-chapter-9-homework-comba-in-x86_64-assembly/comment-page-1/#comment-12
1901056;1552169429;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1901057;1552170219;mircea_popescu;diana_coman right on schedule!
1901058;1552170280;mircea_popescu;ftr, warlock has the stronger troops for large maps ; sorceress for medium. if you're looking for a shortcut to beating his ass.
1901059;1552170306;asciilifeform;was astonishingly well-balanced game, imho
1901060;1552170321;*;asciilifeform played it with brother
1901061;1552170942;asciilifeform;btw, bvt , rax etc. ~are~ encoded as 1-8, the iron dun see reg names at all, the classic names are a convention of the asmers and the vendor docs. and imho remains on acct of the asinine x86isms like MUL which use fixed input and output regs, makes'em slightly easier to remember.
1901062;1552171135;asciilifeform;if you ever wonder why your x64 iron draws 50x the wattage to do same thing as e.g. rk, wonder no longer -- the insanity where shit gets moved around to accomodate idjit instructions with fixed in/out hoppers, the insanity where you gotta set prefixes to specify what width ~each operand~ is (why this is needed ? srsly) , all of this adds up to 3bil transistors that heat the room
1901063;1552171187;asciilifeform;( and this is not even touching the subj of the tlb cache, which is ~1/3 to half of those transistors , which we have on acct of the idjit paging scheme )
1901064;1552171253;asciilifeform;when you build 1 of these things, there's a set of decisions that end up determining shape of whole thing; and it so happens that intel made ~all~ of the most retarded possible choices.
1901065;1552171302;asciilifeform;aaand this is not even to mention their seekrit 'optimizations' behind the scenes.
1901066;1552171399;trinque;diana_coman, other folks that have cuntooed, can y'all confirm that the paths that ended up in your genesis.vpatch do not in fact exist? I'd like you to reproduce the commands starting at line 114 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh in your build directories, i.e. cd ~/src/cuntoo/build/cuntoo and then run them, as root
1901067;1552171415;asciilifeform;it is such a retarded design that even intel and microshit ~tried to escape~, in 1990s. but nsa decided that it ~likes~ x86 , and for it to remain cemented standard , on acct of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1299 .
1901068;1552171458;trinque;the paths ending up in your genesis vpatches are hard to blame on my script, rather than a difference between our vdiff executables.
1901069;1552171512;trinque;the remainder of work here is resolving this issue (I have not had) with paths, after which we can start producing ebuilds for novel republican work atop the genesis.
1901070;1552173307;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878057 << I am currently running a build with a vdiff pressed to same. The only difference is that I have altered the gpr files to statically link.
1901071;1552173307;a111;Logged on 2018-12-03 21:48 diana_coman: hm, if it's indeed the tmp thing, it might be worth a try to press vtools to current leaf (i.e. vtools_tempfile_standalone or _notmp) and see if that cures it; my archive contains pressed vtools to ksum patch only, not further
1901072;1552175761;asciilifeform;in lulz inspired by bvt's article, asciilifeform went and dug re 'modern' cpu arithm instructions, and found https://lemire.me/blog/2018/04/19/by-how-much-does-avx-512-slow-down-your-cpu-a-first-experiment/ << intel's crud apparently ~drops frequency~ if you use'em , ultimately nuking all gains from doing so ( they want you to use, so as to shit out binaries that crash on amd, but really gains 0 )
1901073;1552175806;asciilifeform;i.e. they can't stuff any moar transistors in there, and end up offering the equiv. of ye olde 'winmodem'
1901074;1552175835;asciilifeform;where yes it'll do a e.g. 512-bit add, but -- evidently -- using ~existing~ regs, and putting out same (or greater) amt of heat, and locking up the pipe
1901075;1552176328;asciilifeform;bvt: the only new instrs that seem to be even theoretically of use, are 'mulx' and 'adcx' -- but i dun have any iron that supports these atm, and cannot even begin to say whether constant time etc
1901076;1552176395;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ncZvu/?raw=true << details, for anyone who gives a shit
1901077;1552176566;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/amd64_mulx.jpg << amd seems to support ~currently~, but dun say from what date of chip specifically
1901078;1552176613;asciilifeform;fwiw it's still a 64bit mul, the only win is that it dun set any flags (and therefore keeps the pipe flowing)
1901079;1552176699;asciilifeform;ftr asciilifeform suspects that 99% of what can be won from asmism in ffa, can be had simply from bvt's existing 64bit mul, plus doing adc for the additions-with-carry instead of the manually-cranked carry calc, and that all 'fancy' instructions will only lead to sad
1901080;1552176752;*;asciilifeform meanwhile found today mistake in 17 , and expects it'll take several days to rewrite
1901081;1552176830;asciilifeform;and meanwhile2, we have answr to above quandary, 'In 2017, BMI2 was further incorporated in AMD's Zen-architecture...'
1901082;1552176867;asciilifeform;... so 'mulx' aint in anyffing i have. if someone wants to test it with own hands, he can, otherwise fughetit.
1901083;1552177163;asciilifeform;ftr an 'iron ffa' cpu does not even require a massive multiplier . even a microcoded ffa-style thing that lets you specify 'and at memory x there is a w-word int, and at y a w word int, add'em' etc , would still massively win over the extant liquishit, it would do the arithm atomically, without invoking branchpredictor, losing cache, etc.
1901084;1552177170;asciilifeform;but no prizes for guessing why it aint on the market.
1901085;1552177229;asciilifeform;( 'you want fast crypto, plebe? here, buy nsa-certified(tm)(r) cryptoaccelerator card from ibm' )
1901086;1552177278;asciilifeform;remember, only a terrorist(tm)(r) 'writes own crypto', 'good citizens use openssl' etc etc
1901087;1552184416;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901062 << very much this. "oh, couldn't POSSIBLY spare another bus width for a FULL mult result. NEVERTHELESS... can fucking spare eight trillion bus widths to specify instruction length. it's 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000101 and not a mere fucking 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
1901088;1552184416;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 22:38 asciilifeform: if you ever wonder why your x64 iron draws 50x the wattage to do same thing as e.g. rk, wonder no longer -- the insanity where shit gets moved around to accomodate idjit instructions with fixed in/out hoppers, the insanity where you gotta set prefixes to specify what width ~each operand~ is (why this is needed ? srsly) , all of this adds up to 3bil transistors that heat the room
1901089;1552184416;mircea_popescu;000000000000101!!! NOW THAT IS IMPORTANT!!!
1901090;1552184571;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901064 << in quite related news : went to flagship mall in this country, escazu multiplaza (escazu being where the us embassy compound lies, and all the retarded gringos live, very miami real estate racket reservation), and guess what ? there's no ipad store. AT ALL. instead, huawei dominates both in advertising (these large floating banners) and location (top floor store, only one to sell c
1901091;1552184571;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 22:40 asciilifeform: when you build 1 of these things, there's a set of decisions that end up determining shape of whole thing; and it so happens that intel made ~all~ of the most retarded possible choices.
1901092;1552184571;mircea_popescu;ellphones).
1901093;1552184608;mircea_popescu;jobs' been dead what, a decade ? not even a decade. meanwhile, fifty FUCKING MORONS sat around in rooms pompously pretending as to how "of course i'm teh vp, didn';t you see the sign on the door ?"
1901094;1552184629;mircea_popescu;vp of motherfucking what, exactly ? "how to give away the market to the azns" ? that's a skill ?
1901095;1552184690;mircea_popescu;any fucking monkey picked out in the street could have made ~just as good~ a "corporate executive" as the fucktards apple hired -- and somehow nobody is telling them this. and of course the idiots don't have the werewithal to look in the mirror, "if plumbers were as good at plumbing as we are at executiving, we'd be quite literally swimming in the shit we're metaphorically drowning in!"
1901096;1552185205;mircea_popescu;this is the fucking problem of socialism, when that [http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627253][wanna-be alt-hilary stupid cow] asks "if the government can print money to rescue wall street, [http://trilema.com/2013/the-dilemma-of-fake-money/#selection-21.0-25.2][why won't it print money to let the chitlins enjoy the college lifestyle free of charge] (and permanently!)" she has a fucking point -- and the entirely similar stup
1901097;1552185205;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 00:29 mircea_popescu: pretty fine example of exactly why warren was so vocal (item was strictly a barony created so elizabeth warren could be barron OF SOMETHING). this cfpb item spent 55mn on "renovations" of its hq, ie more than the gsa spent that year on everything the usg owns ; spent immensely on travel (which is not something they do). the chairman is supposed to not be removable by the president except "for cause" (meanwhile that got strick
1901098;1552185205;mircea_popescu;id cow "from twitter" explaining @whatever conference "how serious they take banning" blinks incomprehendingly just as she's done with her soundbytes. yeah, why is it ??? there's entirely no difference between any of them and any other aspiring-writers-in-new-york, philosophy of art history studies rejects the world over. why those, why not these ? blink blink ?
1901099;1552185217;mircea_popescu;dude check  me out, by now i'm writing 500 word chatlines. this isn't going well.
1901100;1552185382;mircea_popescu;but on a more optimistic note, that's probably the most anyone cared about anything to do with the topic or the persons named or otherwise referred to in their entire history. that should count for something.
1901101;1552185884;mircea_popescu;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/ffa-chapter-9-homework-comba-in-x86_64-assembly/#selection-15.295-19.176 << why this, specifically ? is there no ada asm calling method besides this ?
1901102;1552186010;mircea_popescu;7% gains, not even that huge.
1901103;1552186955;mircea_popescu;but speaking of those design decisions, by my current thinking the ideal processor is defined as follows : the bus width is 512bits ; therefore the byte is 512bits. the processing core is a state machine, with 512 byte-sized registers. a processor is composed of 512 + 8*9 such cores. for convenience imagine them organized in a cube, 8x8x8, with an extra 64 item layer on three sides.
1901104;1552186955;mircea_popescu;the 512 "central" cores are state machines that can do add or mul, and always proceed ~on their entire register set~. so if you don't want to multiply 131072-bit numbers, just put in zeros ; and if you put larger numbers in there you'll just get the LAST 262144 bits of the result, is all.
1901105;1552186955;mircea_popescu;the 64 "flat outer" cores are state machines that can do mvin and mvout -- taking registers to memory or memory to registers, ie use the bus. only, of course, for the state machines inside their ~projection~.
1901106;1552186958;mircea_popescu;the remainder 8 "sharp outer" cores control the flats, by moving things in and out of ~their~ registers.
1901107;1552186960;mircea_popescu;memory, of course, starts with byte 299008 (584 * 512) and extends as far as 512 bits bus can address, if you're installing that. meaning, all core registers are allocated as memory anyways. and that's fucking it.
1901108;1552187074;mircea_popescu;i ~can't imagine~ what the fuck must have been going through the skull of whoever came up with "working a piece or moving the worked piece, same thing". what the fuck ever is it same thing!
1901109;1552187747;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu
1901110;1552187856;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901101 << recall, ave1 found that the asm inlining was ~yet another~ item partially broken in ye olde gnat ( iirc it dun let you assign registers deterministically )
1901111;1552187856;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 02:44 mircea_popescu: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/ffa-chapter-9-homework-comba-in-x86_64-assembly/#selection-15.295-19.176 << why this, specifically ? is there no ada asm calling method besides this ?
1901112;1552187926;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901090 << i was convinced somehow that crapple stores exist only in the reich
1901113;1552187926;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 02:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901064 << in quite related news : went to flagship mall in this country, escazu multiplaza (escazu being where the us embassy compound lies, and all the retarded gringos live, very miami real estate racket reservation), and guess what ? there's no ipad store. AT ALL. instead, huawei dominates both in advertising (these large floating banners) and location (top floor store, only one to sell c
1901114;1552187935;asciilifeform;( possibly am mistaken about this ? )
1901115;1552187998;asciilifeform;think, where else are idjits gonna ~lease~ ( the new crapple thing! not even buy, lease.. ) a brick for its weight in gold
1901116;1552188040;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901102 << see the comments
1901117;1552188040;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 02:46 mircea_popescu: 7% gains, not even that huge.
1901118;1552188068;asciilifeform;he's on ch9, where no barrett, ~80% of the cpu eaten by knuthian div.
1901119;1552188094;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901103 << i cannot resist to bite : why 512 ?
1901120;1552188094;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 03:02 mircea_popescu: but speaking of those design decisions, by my current thinking the ideal processor is defined as follows : the bus width is 512bits ; therefore the byte is 512bits. the processing core is a state machine, with 512 byte-sized registers. a processor is composed of 512 + 8*9 such cores. for convenience imagine them organized in a cube, 8x8x8, with an extra 64 item layer on three sides.
1901121;1552188156;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901105 << this is sorta how hillis's 'connection machine' worked. was pretty neat.
1901122;1552188156;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 03:02 mircea_popescu: the 64 "flat outer" cores are state machines that can do mvin and mvout -- taking registers to memory or memory to registers, ie use the bus. only, of course, for the state machines inside their ~projection~.
1901123;1552188220;asciilifeform;the thing with gigantic multers is that they grow physically with the cube of the bitness. hence scarce. ( tho i dun imagine even a 8192bit single-cycle multer would be remotely near as heavy as the 3bil-transistor 'let's fry eggs' pentium-xxviii or whatnot )
1901124;1552188315;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901108 << pipelineism, branchpredictionism, etc., all these heresies, were birthed from the fact that speed of memory fell massively behind that of cpu, in the time it takes to fetch ~anything~ you can do five digits of clock cycle
1901125;1552188315;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 03:04 mircea_popescu: i ~can't imagine~ what the fuck must have been going through the skull of whoever came up with "working a piece or moving the worked piece, same thing". what the fuck ever is it same thing!
1901126;1552188331;asciilifeform;so they 'let's find sumthing to do'.
1901127;1552188360;asciilifeform;aaaanyfffing but get rid of the idjit von neumann bottleneck and bake micro-cpus into the ram
1901128;1552188369;asciilifeform;cuz It Would Be Wrong (tm)(r)(uncle al)
1901129;1552188491;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901095 << rando monkey from the zoo would make 9000x better director than the catamite d00d ( recall, what he was in charge of prev. : rounding the corners on the 'ui'.. )
1901130;1552188491;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 02:24 mircea_popescu: any fucking monkey picked out in the street could have made ~just as good~ a "corporate executive" as the fucktards apple hired -- and somehow nobody is telling them this. and of course the idiots don't have the werewithal to look in the mirror, "if plumbers were as good at plumbing as we are at executiving, we'd be quite literally swimming in the shit we're metaphorically drowning in!"
1901131;1552188570;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901094 << with or without crapple, asia laffs allthewaytothebank -- it aint as if crapple bricks are made somewhere other than shenzhen
1901132;1552188570;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 02:23 mircea_popescu: vp of motherfucking what, exactly ? "how to give away the market to the azns" ? that's a skill ?
1901133;1552188683;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901107 << 2^512 bits weigh approx what galaxy weighs, try it
1901134;1552188683;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 03:02 mircea_popescu: memory, of course, starts with byte 299008 (584 * 512) and extends as far as 512 bits bus can address, if you're installing that. meaning, all core registers are allocated as memory anyways. and that's fucking it.
1901135;1552188704;asciilifeform;( at current or even hypothetical magic '1 atom per' density )
1901136;1552188787;asciilifeform;( not even speaking here of 512^512... )
1901137;1552188850;asciilifeform;i dun expect to even live to see with own eyes a machine where 64bits of addr space fully populated (on current x64 Official standard, only 48 addr lines even connected, the rest mandatory 0)
1901138;1552189313;*;asciilifeform bbl, maffs then meat
1901139;1552194414;mircea_popescu;o right the registers. i recall.
1901140;1552194457;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901119 << because 8 cubed.
1901141;1552194457;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 03:21 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901103 << i cannot resist to bite : why 512 ?
1901142;1552206185;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so i take it your ideal cpu would actually be simply state machines + registers, no actual ram ?
1901143;1552230595;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901066 -> I ran those and I got exactly the same genesis.vpatch (i.e. diff on this vs the one obtained from the script itself returned empty)
1901144;1552230595;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 22:43 trinque: diana_coman, other folks that have cuntooed, can y'all confirm that the paths that ended up in your genesis.vpatch do not in fact exist? I'd like you to reproduce the commands starting at line 114 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh in your build directories, i.e. cd ~/src/cuntoo/build/cuntoo and then run them, as root
1901145;1552230654;diana_coman;onth in unexpected results and assorted ugh: vdiff ends up in stack overflow ran on those
1901146;1552230716;diana_coman;trinque, which are exactly the paths that don't match? since I don't have the original genesis.vpatch I can't really know what to check to look if indeed those paths actually exists or not or wtf
1901147;1552236144;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform thinking about whart you said, i can't repress the suspicion that maybe the memory model is acrtually profoundly fucked,as a central driver of the whole cs insanity.
1901148;1552236189;mircea_popescu;ie, that structured data should really be much better hardware supported, that memory should include much more processor per storage cell, that in fact memory should look a lot more like trees than the current flat, democratic lines of "all cells are equal"
1901149;1552236215;mircea_popescu;ie, socialism fails yet again, and calling itself "democracy" dun help anything -- flat is fail, no two ways about it.
1901150;1552236250;mircea_popescu;trinque no deedbot ?
1901151;1552236327;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901145 << say this again ?! vdiff blows the stack when processing the two diffs ?
1901152;1552236327;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 15:10 diana_coman: onth in unexpected results and assorted ugh: vdiff ends up in stack overflow ran on those
1901153;1552237371;mircea_popescu;perhaps the correct republican approach is not to bake cpu, but to ~bake memory~. why even bother with the whole turdpile that's [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854045][ddr init] when could simply have sane ram, and rk with it.
1901154;1552237371;a111;Logged on 2018-09-25 00:39 asciilifeform: the only binball is that coupla kB of ddr ram init thing.
1901155;1552237404;mircea_popescu;make a 18446744073709551616 byte ram arm board, for the keks.
1901156;1552237481;mircea_popescu;16 exabytes ftw!!!
1901157;1552238981;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901142 << programmable interconnect fabric ( similar to what's sold as fpga ) . iirc i detailed this in old thrd.
1901158;1552238981;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 08:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so i take it your ideal cpu would actually be simply state machines + registers, no actual ram ?
1901159;1552239003;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901147 << it indeed is, and in precisely the way described.
1901160;1552239003;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 16:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform thinking about whart you said, i can't repress the suspicion that maybe the memory model is acrtually profoundly fucked,as a central driver of the whole cs insanity.
1901161;1552239071;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901148 << imho the ( ~homogeneous~ variant of ) fpga is actually the correct model. i.e. you get to stitch it later into however many parallel mechanisms you happen to need on a given occasion.
1901162;1552239071;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 16:43 mircea_popescu: ie, that structured data should really be much better hardware supported, that memory should include much more processor per storage cell, that in fact memory should look a lot more like trees than the current flat, democratic lines of "all cells are equal"
1901163;1552239167;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901153 << bake 'pile of reconnectable flipflop' and then you aint gotta ever bake anyffin else again. iirc i detailed this in ancient thread, mircea_popescu barfed ( iirc answered 'why waste so many transistor on interconnects' ) , but can't currently dig up where we had this
1901164;1552239167;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 17:02 mircea_popescu: perhaps the correct republican approach is not to bake cpu, but to ~bake memory~. why even bother with the whole turdpile that's [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854045][ddr init] when could simply have sane ram, and rk with it.
1901165;1552239293;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901140 << the down side of 'let's 512b bus' is that most cpu time (where it runs, not counting idles on i/o here) is spent in 'inner loops' where yer counting to e.g. 3. and nao you gotta move 512bits when yer counting to... 3
1901166;1552239293;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 05:07 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901119 << because 8 cubed.
1901167;1552239460;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, yes, vdiff on the 2 genesis.vpatch files overflows the stack; while on same machine and same files, diff seems to have no such trouble
1901168;1552239483;mircea_popescu;phf ^ ?
1901169;1552239502;asciilifeform;( the style of programming that would appear on ' asciilifeform's ideal cpu ' is best illustrated in http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis/tree/fg.v . i.e. all of the independent pieces in fact run in parallel, and in deterministic time, there are no interrupts, no scheduler, etc. )
1901170;1552239546;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we found that vdiff overflows during http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864346
1901171;1552239546;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 01:44 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i found today that your keccak-vdiff is unable to eat a 40MB file ( dies politely with stack overflow )
1901172;1552239565;asciilifeform;phf promised to fix, but then went on his ill-fated voyage
1901173;1552239585;diana_coman;asciilifeform, ftr this is a 4.7MB file
1901174;1552239601;diana_coman;and yes, I had this idea in my head that "previous problem, was solved"
1901175;1552239615;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i do not presently know where is the barf threshold, i suspect it depends on yer stack size
1901176;1552239642;asciilifeform;i'd like to see phf come back to life and fix. failing this, 1 of us will have to
1901177;1552239656;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that was size, this is ???
1901178;1552239675;mircea_popescu;diana_coman try it with the megastack size from before, calling tests ?
1901179;1552239680;diana_coman;ulimit -s sez 8192
1901180;1552239698;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc it throws whole file on the stack, but then also keccak eats stack
1901181;1552239702;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, this is a different machine, the cuntoo-guinea pig
1901182;1552239710;asciilifeform;so hard to say 'on napkin' what mass chokes it
1901183;1552239715;diana_coman;I can give it unlimit stack anyway and see what happens, sure
1901184;1552239805;diana_coman;yep, unlimited stack -> fine
1901185;1552239836;diana_coman;(i.e. it runs, it returns fine, no differences between the files)
1901186;1552239858;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf fughet for nao about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899897 , but wouldja pleez fix vdiff ? and tell us what sorta swamp yer stuck in, what wouldja need to get to surface ?
1901187;1552239858;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 08:57 phf: asciilifeform: give me until end of march to resolve it one way or another, feel free to neg rate me then
1901188;1552239859;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1901189;1552239974;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i think he's trapped in some sorta cube hell; the squarebracket thing mircea_popescu asked for also not happened yet etc
1901190;1552240125;asciilifeform;trinque: deedbot dead ??
1901191;1552240245;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the 'errything on stack' approach has its limits; it is why i wrote the mmap thing (currently stuck in limbo , but i'ma have to revive it and fix, cuz ffa 17 also is hitting against this wall, you can't expect to put 100MB on stack, you gotta mmap it
1901192;1552240339;asciilifeform;i'ma detail, ftr : 'ffacalc' runs 'as fed', i.e. 1 command at a time. but 'peh' , adult version, has support for functions and loops, and therefore requires the 'tape' to exist in memory. so currently i have 'tape can be 1000000 bytes', but this is not acceptable obv. in the long term
1901193;1552240358;asciilifeform;so it will have to have the mmap routine.
1901194;1552240440;*;asciilifeform wonders if phf hung on waiting for asciilifeform to fix the mmap lib
1901195;1552240461;asciilifeform;mmap is the obv. logical method to handle multi-MB inputs for e.g. vdiff , without introducing heapisms
1901196;1552240534;asciilifeform;tho not neccessarily required, in vdiff, the process as i understand it does not actually demand random access to the entire input
1901197;1552241261;mircea_popescu;diana_coman see, if it is broken code, then it just eats all stack available. but i suspect here code is sound, demand on stack defensibly large.
1901198;1552241298;mircea_popescu;the whole "low stack by default" thing is a low level "let's stimulate heap usage", in the same exact way the empire of smegma would impose a high import tax on soap.
1901199;1552241326;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's not at all evident vdiff is broken. what'd you have him do ?
1901200;1552241396;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ideally, mmap the inputs
1901201;1552241443;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, yes, I don't suspect the code is broken as such but it is a limitation of the approach and I did not really expect bumping into it at 7MB
1901202;1552241509;diana_coman;I don't recall it being discussed in detail (i.e. with numbers for stack size and input size) anywhere and I think it should be, if it stays as it is
1901203;1552241754;mircea_popescu;well, stack by default is small.
1901204;1552241790;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform imo it is the job of the kernel to expose all available memory (ram, and fucking hell, disk, too, ALL available memory) to me as i fucking want it : stack, cpu registers, heap, whatever it is i wanna call it.
1901205;1552241820;mircea_popescu;ie, yes "ideally mmap it", but not i! it.
1901206;1552241834;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: kernel ( linus's , that is ) -- exposes. the tricky bit was/is the ada glue.
1901207;1552241840;asciilifeform;!#s horsecocks
1901208;1552241840;a111;28 results for "horsecocks", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=horsecocks
1901209;1552241847;asciilifeform;^ the various drafts of this item
1901210;1552242004;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1901211;1552242853;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's march 10th, what is the window for a supply run looking like and what issues appear to be blocking?
1901212;1552242982;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: currently hands full restarting ffa conveyor; however will be ordering irons in next 2 wks, and scheduling flight when the items with least predictable shipment windows are in hand
1901213;1552243033;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Aite. We don't do these very often yet, so getting things in hand trumps getting plane ticket arranged.
1901214;1552243058;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'd ~really~ like to avoid the scenario where i go out with a half-empty crate
1901215;1552243095;BingoBoingo;Right. Half empty crates are for testing new couriers.
1901216;1552245389;mircea_popescu;can i help you guys with anything ?
1901217;1552245913;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly you have an iron that wants to go in the crate ?
1901218;1552245942;asciilifeform;i'm reluctant to do the massive rk thing until we have a semblance of working gnat for arm
1901219;1552246051;mircea_popescu;that makes sense.
1901220;1552246072;mircea_popescu;i don't really, and besides my/our policy has mostly been to have pizarro own iron, hence the snsa sale etc.
1901221;1552246107;asciilifeform;we also host owner-operated iron (e.g. dulap is still snsa ; and trinque has some, and mod6 )
1901222;1552246317;asciilifeform;^ this goes for other folx! bring out thy irons.
1901223;1552246459;*;asciilifeform bbl : meat chores
1901224;1552246919;mircea_popescu;true enough. nevertheless, in my view owning iron helps give pizarro some meat on its bones.
1901225;1552247067;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901176 << i'll put it to the top of the stack, i remember fixing it, but never completing the patch.
1901226;1552247067;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 17:40 asciilifeform: i'd like to see phf come back to life and fix. failing this, 1 of us will have to
1901227;1552247068;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 2 hours ago: <asciilifeform> fughet for nao about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899897 , but wouldja pleez fix vdiff ? and tell us what sorta swamp yer stuck in, what wouldja need to get to surface ?
1901228;1552247133;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> true enough. nevertheless, in my view owning iron helps give pizarro some meat on its bones. << That it does
1901229;1552247181;phf;the problem is that our ada keccak explodes whatever char buffer it gets into an array of octets, which means that, while diff keeps the size of chunks under some particular value, keccak explodes that value x8
1901230;1552247254;phf;rather not array of octets, but array of bits
1901231;1552247669;trinque;diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rWreS/?raw=true << here's the diff of your genesis and mine again
1901232;1552247719;trinque;you'll notice it thinks your home dir is sitting in the profiles dir, which is mighty strange! maybe it is?
1901233;1552247816;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901200 << that is not at all the problem. i can read the file just fine, but as i do i feed chunks of it to keccak. keccak doesn't take char buffers, it wants "bitstream" i.e. arrays of bits, which means whatever char
1901234;1552247816;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 18:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ideally, mmap the inputs
1901235;1552247849;phf;buffer needs to be converted to 8x bitstream, which is in turn allocated on the stack
1901236;1552248003;phf;there are three possible solutions, a) make sure that stack is arbitrarily large b) feed keccak buffers no larger than some magic size c) rewrite keccak to operate on char arrays directly without the need for bitstream allocation
1901237;1552248058;phf;ksum right now works for any sized file, because it goes the b) route: http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp/tree/vtools/src/ksum.adb#L12
1901238;1552248455;diana_coman;trinque, that's weird; fwiw: no, my home dir as far as I can see is *not* in the profiles directory
1901239;1552249047;trinque;seems as though there's a dereferenced symlink munged into the path.
1901240;1552249145;diana_coman;trinque, this is probably having to do with the drive being external, connected via USB and how it's mounted, I don't see any other explanation
1901241;1552249174;trinque;thing is, my src directory is also a mount on my dev machine.
1901242;1552249227;mod6;<+asciilifeform> we also host owner-operated iron (e.g. dulap is still snsa ; and trinque has some, and mod6 ) << The Foundation's 2nd box ("lovelace") is with ben_vulpes, currently.  He's going to find a home for it in his new area, last we had talked about it.  I don't have any machines on-hand that are waiting to go to .uy.  However, I might be interested in buying a UY1 style machine from alf...
1901243;1552249413;trinque;diana_coman: I'm running again with a vdiff pressed to http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_ksum per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878057
1901244;1552249413;a111;Logged on 2018-12-03 21:48 diana_coman: hm, if it's indeed the tmp thing, it might be worth a try to press vtools to current leaf (i.e. vtools_tempfile_standalone or _notmp) and see if that cures it; my archive contains pressed vtools to ksum patch only, not further
1901245;1552249419;mod6;Ok, I'm gonna shutdown the cuntoo box, and boot my original gentoo ssd (where I built cuntoo from).  I'll see what I can find out from the genesis.vpatch thing.
1901246;1552249459;diana_coman;trinque, I'm trying here to even *see* this "profiles/" path in any other way than in the vpatch but so far no luck
1901247;1552249479;diana_coman;fwiw a test file created there and vdiffed resulted in no such nonsense
1901248;1552249545;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/french-ophthalmologists-demand-police-rubber-ball-bullet-ban-after-epidemic-of-eye-injuries/ << Qntra -- French Opht...ists Demand Police Rubber Ball Bullet Ban After Epidemic Of Eye Injuries
1901249;1552249686;trinque;diana_coman: there oughta be a cuntoo/portage dir inside the build dir
1901250;1552249694;trinque;this is what's vdiff'd to produce genesis
1901251;1552249709;diana_coman;yes, that one is there; but I don't see the path that vdiff seems to see
1901252;1552249710;*;trinque will brb, grabbing food real quick
1901253;1552249732;diana_coman;cp -R portage would fail otherwise anyway
1901254;1552249763;trinque;right, this is what leads me to believe there's some vdiff bug to discover
1901255;1552249782;diana_coman;ha, wait, there actually IS a b/profiles/home/...
1901256;1552249857;diana_coman;trinque, what should be in the portage/profiles dir?
1901257;1552249928;diana_coman;apparently vdiff is correct after all and there is this thing it sees - it just took me a bit to find it as I thought it was just a misplaced path rather than...the actual thing,huh
1901258;1552249986;mircea_popescu;phf pretty sure that's the wrong version of it ? iirc there was also a keccak that didn't explode ? diana_coman ?
1901259;1552249987;bvt;trinque: i also confirm that under /cuntoo/portage/profiles there is a directory structure that corresponds to my bootstrap environment
1901260;1552249987;lobbesbot;bvt: Sent 22 hours and 22 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/ffa-chapter-9-homework-comba-in-x86_64-assembly/comment-page-1/#comment-12
1901261;1552250032;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, when he says "explodes" he means that keccak implementation expects as input a bitstream where each bit is stored in an octet
1901262;1552250040;diana_coman;i.e. there isn't yet a bit-level keccak implemented, no
1901263;1552250067;bvt;something like i.e. /cuntoo/portage/profiles/root/cuntoo/build/usr/portage/profiles/features/musl/use.mask
1901264;1552250123;mircea_popescu;ah, i vaguely recalled we had two of them, one bit the other byte.
1901265;1552250135;trinque;bvt: you confirm that this exists in your genesis, but is not a valid path?
1901266;1552250139;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, that's at...another level
1901267;1552250144;mircea_popescu;what ?
1901268;1552250144;trinque;i.e. one that physically exists on disk?
1901269;1552250198;bvt;i confirm that it is both in genesis and is a valid path. i'm testing live cuntoo though, have no access to bootstrap env currently
1901270;1552250228;bvt;i.e. there is really directory structure /cuntoo/portage/profiles/root/cuntoo/build/...
1901271;1552250232;trinque;o,0
1901272;1552250254;trinque;this is an interesting clue. I'll be back shortly
1901273;1552250269;bvt;but it does but is missing under /usr/portage/...
1901274;1552250282;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860813
1901275;1552250282;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 13:08 diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, the bit version blows up buffers even more because it uses *internally* arrays of bits as per http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/#selection-51.100-51.594
1901276;1552250292;bvt;ugh, *but it is missing under...
1901277;1552250363;diana_coman;trinque, bvt put clearly what I was trying to say: here I have the same: the full directory structure inside /cuntoo/portage/profiles
1901278;1552250402;mircea_popescu;diana_coman do you see the wisdom in implementing a keccak variant that uses [http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#footnote_7_79596][eucomms-style fields] ? so that something like "hello world" would be passed as 0x01146865 6c6c6f77 6f726c64
1901279;1552250484;bvt;i.e. like this http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/k88Le/?raw=true
1901280;1552250524;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, from keccak's pov there is no meaning to the input so I don't quite see what you mean there
1901281;1552250535;mircea_popescu;to be clear : i expect that in the regular course of republican work, GB-sized vdiffs will occur -- strictly because we're contemplating confiscating all sort and manner of heathen artefact, and by now bloat is just a synonym for heathen. the "increase stack" fix works ok as a stop-gap, but we can't really 8x everything just for boredom.
1901282;1552250564;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i mean that instead of keccak receiving array of bits stored in octets, keccak receives (and processes) a eucomms field.
1901283;1552250592;diana_coman;that requires simply a bit-level keccak; which requires in turn someone with the time to do the transformation as it were
1901284;1552250602;mircea_popescu;0x(01 => length of 2nd field is 1) (14 => length of 2nd field is 20) (6865 6c6c6f77 6f726c64 = hello world).
1901285;1552250767;mircea_popescu;!!up bflame
1901286;1552250768;deedbot;bflame voiced for 30 minutes.
1901287;1552250774;diana_coman;that seems to be at most at reading-chunk-from-file level which is not really related to keccak and not a problem if I understand correctly what phf says; specifically on one hand he said http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901225 and then option c from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901236
1901288;1552250774;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 19:44 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901176 << i'll put it to the top of the stack, i remember fixing it, but never completing the patch.
1901289;1552250774;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 20:00 phf: there are three possible solutions, a) make sure that stack is arbitrarily large b) feed keccak buffers no larger than some magic size c) rewrite keccak to operate on char arrays directly without the need for bitstream allocation
1901290;1552250800;mircea_popescu;bflame how about you make yourself useful and implement a keccak as discussed ^ then patch diana_coman 's tree with it.
1901291;1552250807;diana_coman;so perhaps the text coding etc would help at chunking-file stage if needed but what is that to do with keccak
1901292;1552250817;mircea_popescu;diana_coman well, apparently it expects to be called with a bitstream, which is a peculiarly inconvenient datastruct in practice.
1901293;1552250856;mircea_popescu;i really do not wish to see c strings, and i don't perceive char buffer to be different. "bitstream" does not exist. so my thinking is, to henceforth mandate datapassing as such a field.
1901294;1552250889;mircea_popescu;as a universal c-string / charbuffer replacement.
1901295;1552250904;mircea_popescu;poor man's tagged data, if you will.
1901296;1552251009;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, what is the gain vs having as input octets or words?
1901297;1552251121;mircea_popescu;that you always know how large the field is.
1901298;1552251138;diana_coman;what, a number attached?
1901299;1552251141;mircea_popescu;the ~problem~ with c-strings is that to know how loing it is you must look ~at the end~.
1901300;1552251167;diana_coman;ada doesn't have c-strings anyway
1901301;1552251171;mircea_popescu;the problem with any other datastruct, such as octets or words, is that you never know how large it is.
1901302;1552251183;mircea_popescu;the correct solution then seems to be, prefix size.
1901303;1552251185;diana_coman;uhm, no
1901304;1552251201;*;mircea_popescu has to go now, but will bbs to continue this.
1901305;1552251211;diana_coman;k
1901306;1552251786;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu et al : there are no cstrings in ada, unless one explicitly bakes'em in order to throw to c linked liquishit. all arrays carry their bounds with'em.
1901307;1552251799;*;asciilifeform also gotta bbl
1901308;1552251927;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901061 << iirc there were restriction on what regs can be used as base and index; another example of isa ugliness is MOV http://archive.is/w0IAC#selection-607.0-945.2
1901309;1552251927;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 22:35 asciilifeform: btw, bvt , rax etc. ~are~ encoded as 1-8, the iron dun see reg names at all, the classic names are a convention of the asmers and the vendor docs. and imho remains on acct of the asinine x86isms like MUL which use fixed input and output regs, makes'em slightly easier to remember.
1901310;1552251965;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901064 << well, IMO nvidia's "denver" managed to beat even them.
1901311;1552251965;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 22:40 asciilifeform: when you build 1 of these things, there's a set of decisions that end up determining shape of whole thing; and it so happens that intel made ~all~ of the most retarded possible choices.
1901312;1552251983;bvt;('denver' is arm at frontend and vliw inside, dynamic jit tries to continuously improve translation: if you have a loop, the 1st, 100th and 1000th loop iterations can execute totally different vliw code)
1901313;1552252013;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901101 << I decided against inline assembly because the asm source is quite large, it's inconvenient to have 100+ lines of asm inline with comments.
1901314;1552252013;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 02:44 mircea_popescu: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/ffa-chapter-9-homework-comba-in-x86_64-assembly/#selection-15.295-19.176 << why this, specifically ? is there no ada asm calling method besides this ?
1901315;1552252097;bvt;there are Import(Ada,...) and Import(Asm,...), which do the same thing according to the docs (http://archive.is/XEHW0#selection-17075.0-17109.171), and I did not manage to find any ABI docs with 'ada calling sequence'.
1901316;1552252419;mod6;trinque: Ok, immediately I notice that in my /home/mod6/cuntoo/nomods/cuntoo working directory, from which I ran `./bootstrap.sh -k config/cuntoo-test1 -d /dev/sdb` there is currently nothing in the 'build' directory.
1901317;1552252509;trinque;didn't you just say you were going to reboot?
1901318;1552252556;mod6;I've looked at the genesis.vpatch that was genereated ( http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-2/nomods.genesis.vpatch ), and at first glance I don't see these files in their paths.  (even if I remove the preceeding 'a/').
1901319;1552252590;mod6;trinque: aha. yeah, powered down, plugged my gentoo SSD back in, and am booted into gentoo where i've built cuntoo.
1901320;1552252600;trinque;ok. so what happens to mounts when you reboot
1901321;1552252670;mod6;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CLgnR/?raw=true
1901322;1552252704;mod6;Is this what you're asking?
1901323;1552252723;trinque;no dude, why would the drive still be mounted on the build dir if you rebooted?
1901324;1552252735;trinque;I don't know why you find this surprising
1901325;1552252767;mod6;Oh, sorry, I guess I wasn't excatly sure what you were asking me to look for, and where.  I never had /dev/sdb mounted when I did the bootstrap.
1901326;1552252783;mod6;It was just "plugged in" to SATA channel 2.
1901327;1552252789;trinque;you didn't read the script either and would otherwise know that it mounted that for you.
1901328;1552252825;mod6;Gotcha.
1901329;1552252860;mod6;Is there anything else I can check for you while I have your ear?
1901330;1552252893;trinque;anyhow, bvt, can I get you to paste an ls -R starting from build/cuntoo ?
1901331;1552252922;mod6;I have also posted the entire typescript (47Mb WARNING) of the build to my website: http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-2/nomods.cuntoo.build.typescript
1901332;1552252960;mod6;I also have tar'd up the entire cuntoo build directory, but have not posted it.  It's like 1.7G, but will send it somewhere if someone wants it.
1901333;1552253144;*;mod6 bbl
1901334;1552253524;bvt;as i mentioned, currently i can show results only from live cuntoo
1901335;1552253530;bvt;ls -R /cuntoo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/hHbuq/?raw=true find /cuntoo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/gAtS2/?raw=true
1901336;1552253871;trinque;/cuntoo/portage/profiles/root/cuntoo << and you built this in /root/cuntoo eh?
1901337;1552253912;bvt;correct, it was a liveusb system
1901338;1552253933;trinque;ah for fucks sake, I found it
1901339;1552253993;trinque;scripts/make_portage_tree.sh << line 14, I do string-munging on the path that's specific to my own filesystem layout
1901340;1552253996;trinque;shame on me!
1901341;1552254024;trinque;bvt: thanks very much for posting this for me! I now know what to fix, back shortly.
1901342;1552254156;bvt;yw
1901343;1552258037;mircea_popescu;diana_coman what ended up being the problem then, i'm not getting something here.
1901344;1552258093;mircea_popescu;bvt i see.
1901345;1552260468;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/03/10/pizarro-isp-march-10th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP March 10th Update
1901346;1552260511;trinque;bvt: diana_coman: I wager that if you change line 14 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh to the following, my sig will verify on the resulting genesis.vpatch :   dest=$pdir/profiles/${src#$bdir/usr/portage/profiles/}
1901347;1552260558;trinque;just running scripts/make_portage_tree.sh again oughta be enough.
1901348;1552261772;mircea_popescu;trinque nice find.
1901349;1552264250;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ << Trilema -- Antiqua Sanctorum Patrum, or -- The Lordship list, sixth year.
1901350;1552271538;BingoBoingo;So in trends, the neon nazis shifted to memeing against Trump in favor of a candidate promising 1000 "dollars" a month
1901351;1552274493;hanbot;BingoBoingo please reboot me again at your leisure, any time tomorrow or tuesday'd be fine
1901352;1552298264;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901047 <-- sounds reasonable; I've set it to redirect to a notice, at worst people will ask here if they're confused.
1901353;1552298264;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 17:44 mircea_popescu: spyked prolly should redirect to explanation tho. 404 is ambiguous here
1901354;1552298315;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901052 <-- ty asciilifeform!
1901355;1552298315;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 21:37 asciilifeform: spyked et al : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/gutentext.tar.xz << mirror (replaced the old tarball)
1901356;1552298510;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, in short, the keccak spec in its current form really since it considers input at bit-level and then goes on to mess about with some assumptions at bit-level and some at octet-level and making a lot of confusion without any good reason e.g. http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/08/eucrypt-chapter-9-byte-order-and-bit-disorder-in-keccak/#selection-55.383-63.563 ; one needs to disentangle that and put it in octet-only shape, octet stre
1901357;1552298510;diana_coman;am as input/output, with the reference implementation to check against
1901358;1552300444;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901346 -> confirmed it does! thank you trinque
1901359;1552300444;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 23:28 trinque: bvt: diana_coman: I wager that if you change line 14 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh to the following, my sig will verify on the resulting genesis.vpatch :   dest=$pdir/profiles/${src#$bdir/usr/portage/profiles/}
1901360;1552307937;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/11/compiling-crystal-space-with-sjlj/ << Ossasepia -- Compiling Crystal Space with SJLJ
1901361;1552308930;mircea_popescu;diana_coman ima re-read on this an' see.
1901362;1552309698;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900648 -> ftr asciilifeform you were right here; it was a server dep (crystal space) that was bringing in the non-sjljistic libs
1901363;1552309698;a111;Logged on 2019-03-06 17:13 asciilifeform: afaik this can only mean that it is trying to link with a non-sjljistic gcc standard lib
1901364;1552314566;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Will do this afternoon
1901365;1552314945;*;asciilifeform back inbiz
1901366;1552314976;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the imports in the asmolade were the 'smoking gun' there
1901367;1552315078;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901308 << it's ALL! like this. the whole motherfucking x86 arch. where is there example of ~non~-ugliness, i'd like to learn.
1901368;1552315078;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 21:05 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901061 << iirc there were restriction on what regs can be used as base and index; another example of isa ugliness is MOV http://archive.is/w0IAC#selection-607.0-945.2
1901369;1552316577;trinque;diana_coman: woohoo! thanks for your help and patience!
1901370;1552317298;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901356 << after ch17 , asciilifeform is doomed to reimplement keccak, will have to load it into head, possibly will add to this recurrent thread
1901371;1552317298;a111;Logged on 2019-03-11 10:01 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, in short, the keccak spec in its current form really since it considers input at bit-level and then goes on to mess about with some assumptions at bit-level and some at octet-level and making a lot of confusion without any good reason e.g. http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/08/eucrypt-chapter-9-byte-order-and-bit-disorder-in-keccak/#selection-55.383-63.563 ; one needs to disentangle that and put it in octet-only shape, octet stre
1901372;1552321743;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901354 << spyked - i was thinking, 'let's make torrent', then realized that torrent is some (afaik) largely unexplored heathenware, possibly due for a civilized replacement. might be worth expanding on if anyone has free hands.
1901373;1552321743;a111;Logged on 2019-03-11 09:58 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901052 <-- ty asciilifeform!
1901374;1552321790;asciilifeform;!#s luby
1901375;1552321790;a111;57 results for "luby", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=luby
1901376;1552321795;asciilifeform;^ possible starting point for subj.
1901377;1552321931;asciilifeform;re 'torrent', consider fact that orig author is an unrepentant lulzcow and recidivist shitcoinist iirc
1901378;1552321995;asciilifeform;aside from that, protocol per se also has well-known problems (the reliance on 'trackers', and general ease of 'poisoning')
1901379;1552330403;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3YS3U/?raw=true
1901380;1552330403;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1901381;1552332590;bvt;trinque: after applying http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901339 your signature verifies correctly. thanks!
1901382;1552332590;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 21:39 trinque: scripts/make_portage_tree.sh << line 14, I do string-munging on the path that's specific to my own filesystem layout
1901383;1552332616;bvt;rather, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901346
1901384;1552332616;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 23:28 trinque: bvt: diana_coman: I wager that if you change line 14 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh to the following, my sig will verify on the resulting genesis.vpatch :   dest=$pdir/profiles/${src#$bdir/usr/portage/profiles/}
1901385;1552332710;bvt;asciilifeform: https://gcd.cr.yp.to/papers.html -- rather new constant time gcd from djb. i did not look at it closely so can't say if it's anything good or belong to the kunstkammer
1901386;1552333191;bvt;also, i did not forgot about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899904 , but had too little time to investigate it properly; will try to do tests over this week and do a writeup on the weekend
1901387;1552333191;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 09:28 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1899820 << will have a look at mes; so far potential deadline -- next weekend.
1901388;1552333236;asciilifeform;bvt: from surface look, loox like lulzy piece, e.g. 'The algorithm is not constant-time as shown but can be made constant-time with low overhead'
1901389;1552333271;asciilifeform;and he's doing what appears to be the classic dividing variant of gcd, + newton's method . so idea is to... introduce floatism!? ( and the assoc. eggogs )
1901390;1552333275;asciilifeform;pretty sad.
1901391;1552333293;asciilifeform;funny how easy to tell 'the new djb' from 'the old'
1901392;1552333370;*;asciilifeform expected to find that linked item is re ~mass~ gcd, in the sense of 'bernsteinization' used in phuctor. but apparently djb has nothing to add re ~that~
1901393;1552333420;asciilifeform;in re single-shot gcd, you either ~look at the bits~ , and that's lehmer's (not constant-time-able) method, or you do not, and that's stein's or the division-powered one, and i suspect it can be proven that yer stuck with quadratic runtime if you dun look at the bits.
1901394;1552333420;bvt;iirc the c-t version of algorithm comes later - around section 5. there is a formula for calculating upper bound of iterations, but I did not check his math.
1901395;1552333431;asciilifeform;that being said, gcd is not the bottleneck of anyffin in ffa.
1901396;1552333441;asciilifeform;( modular exponentiation is , in all operations which feature it )
1901397;1552333562;asciilifeform;see also http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886360 + http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-24#1889741 .
1901398;1552333562;a111;Logged on 2019-01-11 17:34 asciilifeform: whereas the gcd litmus ( gcd(candidate, primorial) ) costs 1ms .
1901399;1552333562;a111;Logged on 2019-01-24 00:44 asciilifeform: meanwhile , measurements : 2.533s is cost of 1 shot of 4096bit m-r (on standard tester iron)
1901400;1552333664;bvt;ok, i see
1901401;1552333705;asciilifeform;constanttimeized stein's o(n^2) gcd ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2963 ) is not only imho fast enuff (even a magical 100fold speedup in it, would not affect speed of rsa key gen measurably , consider above ) but fits-in-head and has no error terms.
1901402;1552333741;asciilifeform;so presently i cannot think of a scenario where i'd want to reopen the case of gcd.
1901403;1552333840;asciilifeform;bvt: ty for the link tho, it confirms the (already yrs-long) suspicion that d00d's head is fulla maggots nao.
1901404;1552333955;asciilifeform;if the upstack note was unclear, btw -- you can do ~2500 4096b gcd's for the price of 1 4096b modexp.
1901405;1552334049;asciilifeform;err, 4096b m-r (i.e. price of 2 modexps)
1901406;1552334276;asciilifeform;this is because a n-bit gcd (as appears in ch15 ffa) is simply 2n n-bit subtractions, 4n n-bit shifts, 2n n-bit muxes, plus some small change.
1901407;1552338488;trinque;wahoo, second confirmation. thanks bvt !
1901408;1552339681;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/talibans-late-mullah-omar-lived-out-his-days-3-miles-from-us-outpost/ << Qntra -- Taliban's Late Mullah Omar Lived Out His Days 3 Miles From US Outpost
1901409;1552342790;BingoBoingo;!!invoice mircea_popescu 0.05780660 S.MG rental server March http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/#selection-65.932-65.1275
1901410;1552342796;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QG7tk/?raw=true
1901411;1552342837;BingoBoingo;!!v E6CECFC7AF8F2F623069C903CB6EA1289C8E7F9306A5B932DAA1FA5F16A6C3A8
1901412;1552342850;deedbot;Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.05780660 << S.MG rental server March http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/#selection-65.932-65.1275
1901413;1552342870;BingoBoingo;!!invoice trinque 0.04564028 Colocation + Shared March
1901414;1552342876;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WYs1g/?raw=true
1901415;1552342910;BingoBoingo;!!v A3574FC1EF9AC5171B55662F353F0CAC23E045EDE97135474CF3953D452546D8
1901416;1552342914;deedbot;Invoiced trinque 0.04564028 << Colocation + Shared March
1901417;1552342924;BingoBoingo;!!invoice jurov 0.04364028 TBF Colocation March
1901418;1552342931;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1ESmT/?raw=true
1901419;1552342962;BingoBoingo;!!v 48B73228D545B5D4C8A9BEDAF259EB24EAD7F33370ABE196B70BE1FF435D3DB8
1901420;1552342967;deedbot;Invoiced jurov 0.04364028 << TBF Colocation March
1901421;1552342989;BingoBoingo;!!invoice bvt 0.002 Shared hosting March
1901422;1552342997;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/e1XKL/?raw=true
1901423;1552343037;BingoBoingo;!!v 5B23C6EFD0BC4F7BEB997C8F2F18FC0B7242C70AB0B0F2A4A6DB82FA92DCFA2F
1901424;1552343041;deedbot;Invoiced bvt 0.002 << Shared hosting March
1901425;1552344906;Mocky;asciilifeform: what do you use to display code on your wordpress (e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978#selection-1675.0-2781.10) ?
1901426;1552345555;trinque;!!v A2FFA044AC088C323C517A4B8D3C4DF846ADD8412F13C9BC53C8EA52248EC329
1901427;1552345562;deedbot;trinque paid BingoBoingo invoice 8
1901428;1552346479;asciilifeform;Mocky: 'wp-syntax' circa '09
1901429;1552346493;asciilifeform;for the highlighting, i use mircea_popescu's js thing
1901430;1552348585;Mocky;asciilifeform: wp-syntax is what I'm looking for, thx
1901431;1552351291;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901370 << not to discourage headloadings ; however ima try to get someone to do it by then.
1901432;1552351291;a111;Logged on 2019-03-11 15:14 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901356 << after ch17 , asciilifeform is doomed to reimplement keccak, will have to load it into head, possibly will add to this recurrent thread
1901433;1552351856;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901377 <<< quite.
1901434;1552351856;a111;Logged on 2019-03-11 16:32 asciilifeform: re 'torrent', consider fact that orig author is an unrepentant lulzcow and recidivist shitcoinist iirc
1901435;1552351874;mircea_popescu;i can think of little more shameful than dood's "career", such as it is.
1901436;1552355415;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if somebody does compact keccak tonight, i'ma only say thanks
1901437;1552355663;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: djb imho evenmoar shame.
1901438;1552355680;asciilifeform;fell from greater height.
1901439;1552355701;asciilifeform;cohen otoh began as a nobody and finished same.
1901440;1552355738;*;asciilifeform brb,meats
1901441;1552359771;mircea_popescu;there's this pic of some indistinct slut i posted once i'm too lazy to retrieve. she happens to be white, sports all manner of celtic cross tattoos, stylisized "SS" etc, is taking a coupla brown dicks.
1901442;1552359788;mircea_popescu;that's the situation, djb never derped at length about republican values.
1901443;1552359807;mircea_popescu;one example that'd come close is that aurenheimer schmuck say, or the charlie shrimp.
1901444;1552359827;mircea_popescu;but these two cocksuckers ~never did anything~, they were lords like nubbins was one briefly.
1901445;1552359840;mircea_popescu;this is a huge fucking difference, at least in my eyes.
1901446;1552359872;asciilifeform;wait djb was lord ?!
1901447;1552359874;asciilifeform;how's that work
1901448;1552359886;mircea_popescu;djb was just some manalone. perhaps more talented than most, but manalone is manalone, like a very talented chimp. howsoever talented, the chimp's not a person.
1901449;1552359925;mircea_popescu;the cohen dork, ~claimed it~. like rms or linus or hwatever other, "cypherpunks" / "internet freedom" blablabla. like the piratebay dorks, like zimmerman, and so on.
1901450;1552359932;asciilifeform;a aaa
1901451;1552359995;asciilifeform;djb was imho textbook case of 'один в поле -- не воин'(tm)(r)
1901452;1552360003;mircea_popescu;i suppose.
1901453;1552360029;asciilifeform;( i have nfi whether the ancients had this proverb, but betcha they did )
1901454;1552360113;mircea_popescu;there's of course http://trilema.com/2012/cine-se-casatoreste/#selection-61.94-61.383
1901455;1552360122;asciilifeform;cohen iirc was from day1 aligned with the wikitards & the rest of that gang of pseudo-republic people
1901456;1552360196;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'cacatu de pe bec', that was a mega-piece, i recall
1901457;1552360199;mircea_popescu;spoke the words.
1901458;1552360247;asciilifeform;iirc the subj of the piece (the chinese 'empty chair' pantsuit nobel derp) finally bit it coupla yrs ago
1901459;1552360272;mircea_popescu;post-abortion complications ?
1901460;1552360278;asciilifeform;never saw his miami
1901461;1552360292;asciilifeform;possibly i've my chinese solzhenitsyns mixed up, idk
1901462;1552360343;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901402 << seems legit.
1901463;1552360343;a111;Logged on 2019-03-11 19:49 asciilifeform: so presently i cannot think of a scenario where i'd want to reopen the case of gcd.
1901464;1552360420;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho half of 'fits in head' is specifically ~refraining~ from gilding the lilies that dun need gilding.
1901465;1552360444;mircea_popescu;quite.
1901466;1552360805;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1716-part-iv/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1716. - Part IV.
1901467;1552361004;asciilifeform;^ i've been waiting for that 1 from the beginning!111
1901468;1552361044;asciilifeform;the 1 with the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878200 !
1901469;1552361044;a111;Logged on 2018-12-04 00:46 asciilifeform: ru pathologists refer to subj as 'wax fetus', can't recall what it is in eng
1901470;1552361160;asciilifeform;wtf does the illustration have to do with it tho ? maybe mistake, and it is for adjacent section ?
1901471;1552361164;asciilifeform;nicoleci ^
1901472;1552361320;nicoleci;asciilifeform, glad it finally came - i really enjoyed reading it. probably one of the more bizarre transactions
1901473;1552361412;nicoleci;tbh all of the articles have been very interesting
1901474;1552361440;mircea_popescu;right!
1901475;1552361922;nicoleci;its been a pleasure transcribing them. really wish it was something they speak on in us schools, instead of trying to teach the periodic table by a song but w/e.
1901476;1552361991;asciilifeform;nah they prefer to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600
1901477;1552361991;a111;Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
1901478;1552362518;nicoleci;true, im trying to get over my bitterness of all of the stolen time by the usg.
1901479;1552362745;nicoleci;asciilifeform, figure 31 on the illustration relates to the article
1901480;1552363100;nicoleci;(lower right corner) the transactions grouped the images from multiple articles on one or two pages
1901481;1552364735;trinque;this kind of bitterness imho is of the "nose to spite face" variety.
1901482;1552364799;trinque;can yeah, hate 'em in the present frame. nobody's taking me back to high-and-20 to could've-been-moar in an imaginary branch.
1901483;1552365776;asciilifeform;trinque: imho 'never forgive, never forget' hatred -- can be constructive thing.
1901484;1552365966;trinque;didn't say forgive. more a comment on whether the mind dwells on a missed opportunity to strike yesterday than on striking today.
1901485;1552366595;nicoleci;yeah i can see that how useless to entertain the past. even so, not sure on the resolve of managing the abundance of how much i need to learn and how little i know.
1901486;1552400381;PeterL;trinque: I am looking at building Cuntoo. Quick question: would there be anything detrimental to having MAKEOPTS set too high? (I see it is set to -j8 at one point in the script, but I only have 2 processors?)
1901487;1552400404;asciilifeform;PeterL: will simply slow
1901488;1552400510;PeterL;ah, thanks asciilifeform.
1901489;1552402994;PeterL;!!v 182852A1C11CD09E84AF66632D1473BE7829A00F43B490203B0DD19A8D41185A
1901490;1552402995;deedbot;PeterL rated diana_coman 1 << Wrote eucrypt, keccac implementation, etc. - ossasepia.com
1901491;1552403207;PeterL;!!v E9385FF7FBE438EA5E1BDAD216EEC207E80CFDFB9CC28DF359E4E38F196EA67E
1901492;1552403208;deedbot;PeterL rated phf 1 << excellent log, vtools - btcbase.org/log barksinthewind.com
1901493;1552403944;trinque;PeterL: you'll also potentially find out where parallelism bugs exists in ebuilds
1901494;1552403949;trinque;I've seen 'em before.
1901495;1552404018;PeterL;so you mean it is less likely to have bugs pop up if I lower the number?
1901496;1552405707;asciilifeform;PeterL: you won't see a parallelism bug , by definition, with ~1~ thread ; but to say just about anyffin else about'em, is difficult.
1901497;1552406009;trinque;no, I'm not saying "this ritual is how you avoid the bad". I'm saying that cranking the number of parallel jobs will reveal whether builds rely on implicit race-condition ordering, vs having been written correctly with the whole dependency graph of the build expressed in makefile.
1901498;1552406051;trinque;interesting question, what happens when I crank the parallelism to 11, go find out why dont you.
1901499;1552407535;BingoBoingo;Local army head got fired today https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/manini-rios-esta-reunido-con-vazquez-dijo-que-hablara-de-temas-que-le-preocupan--201931210454
1901500;1552407658;BingoBoingo;And in playing Chicken without flinching https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/investigan-participacion-de-los-espectadores-en-el-accidente-de-la-gallinita-ciega-2019312121520
1901501;1552407749;BingoBoingo;"El impacto fue registrado por las cámaras de seguridad" << It is a great shame that video isn't out yet
1901502;1552408594;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: eh folx are still waiting for the vid from the pentagon parking lot cams on '9/11'
1901503;1552408732;BingoBoingo;Well, gotta do something during the waiting.
1901504;1552413070;BingoBoingo;!!rate princess nell -2 https://archive.is/mHZsU#selection-52.0-85.11 << After contact with the early proto-Republic, decided to give freely her content to the enemy
1901505;1552413098;BingoBoingo;!!rate princessnell -2 https://archive.is/mHZsU#selection-52.0-85.11 << After contact with the early proto-Republic, decided to give freely her content to the enemy
1901506;1552413102;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Rt8io/?raw=true
1901507;1552413140;BingoBoingo;!!v 9558A5ECF5CAA3C1E040CBA3E8BAABAD6EE7D18B33B3253CC0F61B0992A07B75
1901508;1552413140;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated princessnell -2 << https://archive.is/mHZsU#selection-52.0-85.11 << After contact with the early proto-Republic, decided to give freely her content to the enemy
1901509;1552413370;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << Trilema -- The Freenode issue
1901510;1552414646;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 2013 ?
1901511;1552414998;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Followed a link from Trilema, decided to make a note for future reference http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-anjie-well-actually-let-me-do-anjie-while-you-watch/
1901512;1552415018;asciilifeform;a
1901513;1552415074;BingoBoingo;Gotta take notes while the reading is fresh
1901514;1552416221;hanbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
1901515;1552416335;asciilifeform;hanbot: imho oughta move ( as i said in the past, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839469 ) , q is 'where'
1901516;1552416335;a111;Logged on 2018-08-04 22:08 asciilifeform: this being said, i personally would prefer exodus from fleanode to happen on our schedule, rather than in the wake of a catastrophic drop of it into complete unusability.
1901517;1552416395;trinque;I say move.
1901518;1552416422;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu ( in linked thrd ) dug up a coupla possible 'wheres'. but imho oughta begin with gluing together small net ( with boxen in piz ~and elsewhere~ ) and ~then~ bridge it to public nets.
1901519;1552416475;asciilifeform;really oughta spread across a minimum of 3 geographically separate racks, before troo move , imho
1901520;1552416521;asciilifeform;last time this came up , asciilifeform went on a dig of 'what ircd', and found (surprise!1111) MB of c liquishit
1901521;1552416540;asciilifeform;hey phf do you know of a cl ircd ?
1901522;1552416619;BingoBoingo;It seems like time to begin moving
1901523;1552417159;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839467 << see also in thrd.
1901524;1552417159;a111;Logged on 2018-08-04 22:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc i proposed at one time an intermediate item on the way to proper gossipd ( 'serpent'-ciphered tunneler to connect coupla ircd instances to each other, and ditto for users ( get otp cookie a la deedbot, get a key that's good for 1 tcp connect ) but so far instead followed mircea_popescu's advice re not wasting sweat on such a thing, but pushing with ffa so as to get with what to gossipd.
1901525;1552417256;asciilifeform;even if 'let's use conventional ircd' -- the q remains , which one -- afaik they aint actually fully interoperable from peering pov
1901526;1552417308;asciilifeform;( from user pov either , they also all seem use slightly variant authentication schemes )
1901527;1552418590;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 -> I'm for moving; the only reason for staying was being busy with tending to other fires that burnt worse but freenode seems to be burning worse and worse lately anyway; a multi-network bridge sounds best in my opinion but I don't really know how much work needs to be put in to get that.
1901528;1552418590;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 18:43 hanbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
1901529;1552418645;diana_coman;re efnet there was http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-12#1769730
1901530;1552418645;a111;Logged on 2018-01-12 06:10 trinque: on second thought, lets not go to efnet. 'tis a silly place.
1901531;1552419295;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the central headache afaik is http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128269 , i.e. the various nets have an idjit user lock-in thing going
1901532;1552420411;BingoBoingo;In Quakenet https://www.quakenet.org/articles/102-press-release-irc-networks-under-systematic-attack-from-governments
1901533;1552420426;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : i'm also not 100% convinced that the proposed multi-network thing is actually less of a nut to crack than adult gossipd. ( consider, how wouldja do authentication ? the extant ircd's support either '~nuffin, anyone can hijack session' or ssltardism . )
1901534;1552420483;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 2014. and imho sounds like less of 'attack on irc' and moar of 'attack' on wotless heathens / allcomerists
1901535;1552420511;asciilifeform;~those~ succumb to fart in the wind, not even speaking of 'attack'
1901536;1552420562;BingoBoingo;Well, they had the good sense to keep it linked on their front page after the Snowden leaks made it to "GHCQ fucking with IRC"
1901537;1552420768;BingoBoingo;Alarm's been tripped. Warning light stays lit until every Buckingham Palace occupant takes a traffic cone up the ass.
1901538;1552422401;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: what i mean is, it's same 'attack' erry time, and consists 100% of https://www.oglaf.com/humans/
1901539;1552422406;asciilifeform;rather than sumthing particular to irc.
1901540;1552422498;asciilifeform;folx without lymphocytes ~will~ succumb to fungi & errything else under the sun, it dun matter what they do
1901541;1552422570;diana_coman;at any rate, the move + multi-network wrapper approach seems to me like an excellent way for one to learn and be in a prime position for gossipd really
1901542;1552422661;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'll admit that it isn't clear to me how effort put into baking glue for oddball nonstandard ircisms helps in re gossipd . irc as i see it is an entirely dead-end tech ( rides on tcp, and 0 notion of crypto , and cannot be retrofitted really )
1901543;1552422755;diana_coman;learn != reuse code or even tech
1901544;1552422783;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plox to expand here : what in particular is to be learned ?
1901545;1552422899;diana_coman;what the troubles are in practice; note that I'm not talking about "bake glue" but rather a full run servers
1901546;1552423147;asciilifeform;indeed will learn what the troubles are in practice. only i suspect that 0 of it will have any bearing on the gossipd side.
1901547;1552423169;asciilifeform;( e.g. the problems of mitigating tcp ddos are irrelevant to proper udpistic gossipd. and ditto authentication of handles. )
1901548;1552423271;asciilifeform;it isn't even that i dun think it's worth doing ( fleanode only ever gets ~moar~ rotten, and never less ) . but imho the cost is prolly not recoverable ( in the engineering sense ) .
1901549;1552423747;diana_coman;asciilifeform, do you mean that a person who made and ran this multi-bridge infrastructure across how many irc networks has gained no useful knowledge for running a gossipd-based service?
1901550;1552426513;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/local-rag-britain-just-leaving-their-undersea-cable-landing-sites-open-and-unguarded/ << Qntra -- Local Rag: Britain Just Leaving Their Undersea Cable Landing Sites Open And Unguarded
1901551;1552426934;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i hesitate to say 'no useful'. but possibly 'very little'.
1901552;1552426980;asciilifeform;for instance, in saeculum i've set up microshit boxen of various sorts. and could not honestly say that i learned from the experience anything applicable on sane-people planet.
1901553;1552427532;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ever read any varlaam shalamov ?
1901554;1552427545;BingoBoingo;There's likely logistics lessons to be learned. Timings necessary to keep conenctions open and other tcp weird.
1901555;1552427555;asciilifeform;fella did 40+yrs in gulag. then got out, and was often asked by curious folx, 'what did you learn to do'
1901556;1552427573;asciilifeform;and he answered honestly, 'to roll wheelbarrow fulla rocks on narrow planks. is all i learned.'
1901557;1552427621;asciilifeform;( he went in for trotskyism. and policy was, trotskyists only wheelbarrow, no cutting wood, no nuffin else )
1901558;1552427674;asciilifeform;( tbf, this was after his 1st 20yrs -- 100% wheelbarrow. during his 2nd 20y, he learned to stick thermometers in arses, became 'medic' , hence lived )
1901559;1552427820;hanbot;asciilifeform: i'd trust a gossipd operator that'd also operated the ircd bridge above one who hadn't, other things being comparable.
1901560;1552427944;asciilifeform;hanbot: wouldja be willing to expand re why ?
1901561;1552427979;asciilifeform;( and specifically, why not also 'i'd trust operator who also had in the past set up winblowz 2012' then )
1901562;1552428279;hanbot;asciilifeform, you have a very narrowly construed "explain to me what the learning benefit of X is". this is not how my life experience worked out; if it were possible to explain to the ignorant the benefits of education, education itself would work very differently from how it actually works.
1901563;1552428316;asciilifeform;hanbot: this is fair enuff, and mircea_popescu wrote at length on the subj.
1901564;1552428318;trinque;eh this isn't going to teach anyone anything they wouldn't have learned running any other server farm. I and I'm sure several people already do, or have.
1901565;1552428319;hanbot;you will learn not what you know you do not know, but what you do not know you do not know. and, most important, whether there even is something there you do not know or not.
1901566;1552428341;asciilifeform;hanbot: but was curious whether you had moar specific notion, or simply gut feeling (nuffin wrong with gut, imho)
1901567;1552428369;hanbot;well...it's a large pile of strange that none of us seriously delved into. iono what's in there. do you know what's in there?
1901568;1552428374;asciilifeform;fwiw i dun feel like my many yrs of setting up multi-MB balls of c ??? liquishit on various net-facing boxen, taught me ~anyffin that'd be applicable on hypothetical sane comp
1901569;1552428401;trinque;hanbot: yeah, I'm already running an IRC server elsewhere. there is no high magic in it, only low trivia.
1901570;1552428415;asciilifeform;~100% of the problems i learned to solve, only exist on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892448
1901571;1552428415;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 22:12 mircea_popescu: "most people, when faced with a problem, will not investigate the cause of the problem, but will instead want to solve it because the problem is actually in the way of something more important than figuring out why something suddenly got in their way out of nowhere.  if you are a programmer, you may reach for perl at this point, and perl can remove your problem.  happy, you go on, but find another problem blocking your way, r
1901572;1552428444;hanbot;and as to microsoft specifically, i do trust your opinion on microsoft above the opinion of microsoft of an imaginary asciilifeform that never touched it. this is exactly what i meant about finding out whether there's even anything there.
1901573;1552428478;hanbot;trinque: is it like a gameserver or something?
1901574;1552428535;asciilifeform;hanbot: this gets complicated. e.g. i put high value on mircea_popescu's pov re programming, even tho he (afaik) moar or less never programs
1901575;1552428557;hanbot;you mean other than bash, right? :D
1901576;1552428564;asciilifeform;i think aristotle actually had , sadly, correct notion, where doing some kinds of work actually makes you dumber
1901577;1552428585;asciilifeform;an asciilifeform who had never touched microshit, i suspect, would be a better man than asciilifeform who did..
1901578;1552428595;trinque;hanbot: just stood it up for the sake of exactly this impending need
1901579;1552428608;hanbot;better man, yes, but not necessarily better x86-ologist.
1901580;1552428616;trinque;again, only trivia involved. I've also run clusters of postgres, fleets of webservers, etc etc etc
1901581;1552428619;trinque;it's all the same work
1901582;1552428622;asciilifeform;obj i'm ill-equipped to say for sure, hanbot
1901583;1552428637;asciilifeform;trinque: was it the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1837110 item ?
1901584;1552428637;a111;Logged on 2018-07-21 21:18 trinque: in compounding ironies, I stood up my own ircd_ratbox earlier out of curiosity
1901585;1552428646;asciilifeform;does it run well ?
1901586;1552428668;asciilifeform;*obv
1901587;1552428676;hanbot;trinque: okay, but by the same logic people shouldn't implement loggers or whatever else. if it's not useful for you, it's still useful for them.
1901588;1552428711;hanbot;in the sense that at some point they've gotta do something
1901589;1552429396;trinque;people are not this undifferentiated category. yes for students, running an ircd is a great idea, like bots or w/e else.
1901590;1552429421;asciilifeform;^
1901591;1552429447;trinque;the upstack claim was that this will help design gossipd. *only* as antipattern and study of antipatterns does not by itself yield sense.
1901592;1552429477;asciilifeform;sadly troo. otherwise microshit escapees would make for brilliant teachers of the art.
1901593;1552429528;asciilifeform;( and if there's 1 thing there is no shortage of in the sad monkey house that passes for kompyooting, it's 'antipattern' -- there's enuff that 'you can eat it with arse' )
1901594;1552429650;asciilifeform;the ~damage~ ( and imho is just about as factual as radiation damage ) from being a programmer, is that familiarity with crud , leads to swallowing, and eventually you learn to live with things that by all rights no one oughta live with. witness how many people think that it is acceptable for a program to sometimes crash, for instance.
1901595;1552429657;asciilifeform;'all programs crash', supposedly.
1901596;1552429667;asciilifeform;and then try and object.
1901597;1552429772;asciilifeform;or , say, take tcp. mircea_popescu aint even a programmer, and is just about as 'clean' as a fella can get in re programming radiation damage and still have worked with comp. but it took asciilifeform 3+yrs to get him to see that tcp is -- by design -- garbage
1901598;1552429822;asciilifeform;( and it took asciilifeform, in turn, 10+yrs , measured from time of 1st thinking about subj, to get there )
1901599;1552429888;asciilifeform;so ftr i will have to disagree with hanbot , in that imho coal miner is ~not~ the best geologist.
1901600;1552429911;asciilifeform;there's a severe narrowing of perspective that almost always comes from crawling around inside mine
1901601;1552430029;asciilifeform;having said this, i'm all for setting up a not-fleanode . and will put relay on dulap as soon as the matter of 'which ircd' is settled.
1901602;1552430054;asciilifeform;but would rather not suffer illusions re 'this is a step to designing gossipd'
1901603;1552430071;asciilifeform;it's shovel work, and necessary shovel work, just like maintaining trb.
1901604;1552430072;*;trinque same
1901605;1552430334;hanbot;all this might even be true.
1901606;1552430350;hanbot;prolly should put it in a trilema comment tho'.
1901607;1552430452;asciilifeform;hanbot: i have 0 to disagree in re the scheme mircea_popescu described on his www . it's exactly what oughta be sewed.
1901608;1552430489;asciilifeform;tho hrm, there's the 1 open q..
1901609;1552430577;trinque;hanbot: realtime digestion then proposal in my case.
1901610;1552430603;trinque;absent the "this will be somehow instructive" there's the practical need for infrastructure with which I 100% agree
1901611;1552430701;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128280 << the open q
1901612;1552431443;asciilifeform;hanbot: i'm with trinque on this one -- if we confine the thread to mircea_popescu's www, it will be a very slow thread. i do hope that he finds a working fleanode box to connect to in the meanwhile.
1901613;1552431537;asciilifeform;i'm currently sitting on tepper.freenode.net ( 192.186.157.43 ) fwiw.
1901614;1552431555;trinque;ah, I hadn't even realized he couldn't connect *at all*
1901615;1552431605;asciilifeform;trinque: i dun know this for a fact; maybe simply spat at the string of barf and stopped for nao
1901616;1552431946;BingoBoingo;Rizon looked attractive from a letting people piss all over copyrasty perspective, but https://archive.is/fBL9n#selection-91.1-99.149
1901617;1552432023;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'd prefer if mircea_popescu picked which horse is healthiest in that glue factory
1901618;1552432030;asciilifeform;per my lights, they're all ~identical
1901619;1552432054;asciilifeform;i.e. buncha people who all promise same thing, and deliver ~same maybe-it
1901620;1552432089;BingoBoingo;Well, been reading docs. EFnet has few. These networks appear to in fact promise different things
1901621;1552432637;trinque;http://www.routing-com.undernet.org/ << lol, romania specifically banned!
1901622;1552432651;asciilifeform;lol!
1901623;1552432794;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu
1901624;1552432796;asciilifeform;bulgaria worx ?
1901625;1552432843;mircea_popescu;dawg, check out their new dns!
1901626;1552432859;asciilifeform;lol
1901627;1552432882;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform at first i thought you went through the list of old dns responses/old servers and fished out one inexplicably not on mine
1901628;1552432892;asciilifeform;reminds of sov army shower -- grunt holds kettle over lieutenant's head
1901629;1552432901;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: so i did
1901630;1552432935;mircea_popescu;but no, check it out, from http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#selection-27.0-59.0 to http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dmzjQ/?raw=true in six hours!
1901631;1552432936;asciilifeform;not as if i dun regularly come up against same barf as mircea_popescu did this morning
1901632;1552432947;asciilifeform;just that it happens erry quarter or so, when my fiber decides to sad
1901633;1552432985;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik they autorotate'em ( by what satanic principle, i do not know at all )
1901634;1552432987;mircea_popescu;anyways. im pretty sure this wasn't answering ~six hours ago.
1901635;1552433011;*;asciilifeform believes
1901636;1552433112;mircea_popescu;anyways, imo the matter still stands. originally my idea was that phf will put up a drawing of a dwarf with a humongo hammer at the close of the 2nd chapter in the tmsr saga (as per last words of http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128287 ), but i guess instead it'll be a ... large spider ? wtf.
1901637;1552433169;mircea_popescu;but the idea is, come up with a network by tomorrow. that work ?
1901638;1552433249;asciilifeform;meanwhile, examining horses in the glue factory, efnet yields https://archive.is/bEyLF#selection-161.1-179.19
1901639;1552433283;mircea_popescu;2015 ?
1901640;1552433288;asciilifeform;( and maybe even then healthiest horse, for all i know the others same but not reported )
1901641;1552433290;mircea_popescu;whatever, the irc network forum. wtf.
1901642;1552433291;asciilifeform;2015.
1901643;1552433307;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: EFnet doesn't have passwords for IRC users. Just their forum tards. EFnet doesn't provide auth at all.
1901644;1552433315;BingoBoingo;EFNet however forces short nicks
1901645;1552433324;asciilifeform;maybe time to consider by what criteria to even pick
1901646;1552433328;asciilifeform;other than 'not fleanode'
1901647;1552433355;mircea_popescu;the correct approach would be to go in their admin channels whatever they are, talk to the ops, see who would welcome more servers.
1901648;1552433645;asciilifeform;verily
1901649;1552433654;asciilifeform;so asciilifeform went to 'quakenet', and saw guess what,
1901650;1552433654;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wkd9B/?raw=true
1901651;1552433732;mircea_popescu;so ?
1901652;1552433744;asciilifeform;then went to 'ircnet', www last updated in... 2004. and none but the u.s. relays seem to answer
1901653;1552433755;mircea_popescu;talk to Flusher / beorn then
1901654;1552433768;*;hanbot aims nailgun @ quakenet
1901655;1552433809;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't get it, you object to antique motd ?
1901656;1552433852;asciilifeform;'No racism and/or Nazism' smells of 'code of conduct'ism
1901657;1552433864;asciilifeform;but so far this one's in the lead, i.e. box actually answered
1901658;1552433868;mircea_popescu;i don't read those things.
1901659;1552433877;mircea_popescu;and incidentally! shouldn't you be ffaing or something ?
1901660;1552433915;asciilifeform;would luvv to go back to it, with mircea_popescu's blessing
1901661;1552433938;asciilifeform;i was under notion that this item is an 'all hands' firefight
1901662;1552433952;mircea_popescu;http://irc.netsplit.de/servers/?net=IRCnet << there's a buncha live servers.
1901663;1552433998;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform far from it. you do your thing, other people'll do this thing.
1901664;1552434006;asciilifeform;aite!
1901665;1552434016;asciilifeform;i'ma off to debuggery room then, bbl
1901666;1552434069;mircea_popescu;fwis, trinque already got one being tortured for the past six months ; depending on other workload mebbe BingoBoingo or spyked feel like putting one up also (but very much do not fall into the tarpit of chasing butterflies, from one to the next and catching none, fellas).
1901667;1552436299;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 << I'm of the thinking we should move too; however, I've been thinking the same thing all day, 'where?'.  Looks like the court is investigating some options for existing networks, as well as considering one of our own.
1901668;1552436299;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 18:43 hanbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
1901669;1552436406;mod6;I myself used to run an ircd-hybrid, but that was srsly like 20 years ago.  So I'm not sure how much active knowledge I have on the subject, currently.  Anyway, whatever or where ever we go, it's just a temporary place until we have gossipd.
1901670;1552436492;mircea_popescu;you wanna try getting one up ?
1901671;1552436562;trinque;this is going to sound wacky, but how married are we to IRC? xmpp federates far easier than IRC.
1901672;1552436564;mod6;I could stand one up somewhere, my time is a bit limited this week.  Might have some time this weekend.
1901673;1552436576;trinque;I've run an ejabberd before too, quite familiar.
1901674;1552436630;mod6;For what I can see, I'm not so certain that we're married to IRC, but I suspect that our bots/loggers are a bit more closely wed to the protocol.
1901675;1552436633;mircea_popescu;trinque well, we're "married" in the sense that all extant infrastructure's written against it.
1901676;1552436651;mircea_popescu;does xmpp even exist in deployments anymore ?
1901677;1552436682;trinque;I'll go poking around in public jabber servers and see how lively they are
1901678;1552436715;trinque;in my case, the protocol side of the thing is decoupled from my services such that switching protocols is about a week or two of work.
1901679;1552436805;mircea_popescu;well, irc networks's federating's a five minutes config file settings, to list your ircd among the rest
1901680;1552436819;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901578 << I'll see what I can do about standing up an ircd sometime this week.  It'll take a bit to lock down the conf of the thing, but eventually, if all looks good, we should be able to link up our nodes, trinque.
1901681;1552436819;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 22:09 trinque: hanbot: just stood it up for the sake of exactly this impending need
1901682;1552436831;mircea_popescu;i happen to think this is a thing they got right (accidentally, and for purely historical reasons).
1901683;1552436891;*;mircea_popescu will stand up a muscovy server for hanbot too, let no oppinion, no matter how earnestly held or freely expressed, pass unpunished.
1901684;1552436904;trinque;sure, if we're talking about just using own IRC network, trivial. if we're talking about peering into an established net, it'll involve some committee of dipshits assenting
1901685;1552436906;trinque;lol
1901686;1552436908;mircea_popescu;so basically the offer for ircnetowkrs is "we're bringing three boxes"
1901687;1552436929;mircea_popescu;trinque yes. and i hold we gotta ask em all.
1901688;1552436944;mircea_popescu;documented dipshittery > presumed dipshittery.
1901689;1552436962;trinque;no disagreement here
1901690;1552437001;mircea_popescu;trinque in your experience what's the bottleneck, ram ? cpu ?
1901691;1552437332;trinque;never had a large IRC server, but can't imagine a lot of state in RAM per user.
1901692;1552437441;mod6;i'll also state that mine was never huge either.   had ~2-3 channels, ~20-25 users.  the biggest thing I recall was just having enough b/w so peeps stay connected.
1901693;1552437558;*;mod6 bbl, mmmeat :]
1901694;1552439204;mircea_popescu;you know, to revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901543 -- one could at least learn whether i should provision for ram or cpu!!!
1901695;1552439204;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 20:32 diana_coman: learn != reuse code or even tech
1901696;1552439846;BingoBoingo;I have spent a lot of years reading very stupid things, but reading docs to try to distinguish IRC networks today...
1901697;1552439991;BingoBoingo;I feel much dumber and angrier than I did when seeing the news of Freenode retardation
1901698;1552440281;BingoBoingo;But as awful as IRC documentation is the XMPP thing... I tried to read some explanations of what XMPP is and how it works, but the 2004 era buzzwords and "keep updated" stuff is thick
1901699;1552440500;BingoBoingo;<mod6> i'll also state that mine was never huge either.   had ~2-3 channels, ~20-25 users.  the biggest thing I recall was just having enough b/w so peeps stay connected. << They all want pipe
1901700;1552440646;BingoBoingo;For something named internet RELAY chat... the docs make it seem everyone is afraid of adding new relays. Imagine if the email folks in the 80-90s instead broke to this level of paranoia
1901701;1552440743;mircea_popescu;eventually they did, hence google ended up stuck with it.
1901702;1552441466;*;BingoBoingo going for a walk to unload this shit from the head
1901703;1552445234;trinque;in my brief dive I have yet to find evidence that anyone on xmpp talks about anything other than xmpp
1901704;1552446143;BingoBoingo;I'm back from the walk. I have an "alfajor oreo" in front of me, and I the retardartion of the cunt snot pile still pisses me off.
1901705;1552452317;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/things-that-happened-last-month/ << Bimbo.Club -- Things that happened last month.
1901706;1552469506;spyked;mircea_popescu et al: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128290
1901707;1552469694;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901621 <-- iirc they already have (too many?) servers residing in ro, might be why they don't accept any new ones
1901708;1552469694;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 23:17 trinque: http://www.routing-com.undernet.org/ << lol, romania specifically banned!
1901709;1552469839;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901666 <-- added this to the list and will prioritize if it becomes an urgent matter
1901710;1552469839;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 23:41 mircea_popescu: fwis, trinque already got one being tortured for the past six months ; depending on other workload mebbe BingoBoingo or spyked feel like putting one up also (but very much do not fall into the tarpit of chasing butterflies, from one to the next and catching none, fellas).
1901711;1552470315;spyked;returning briefly to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901372 : back in the early 2000s, most file transfers in ro were done via local 'dc++' hubs, the largest hosted in uni politehnica of bucharest campus. wasn't all that horrible, with the exception that orcs had no notion of wot, so they were all suprised when police started raiding the dorms (accompanied by "anti-piracy campaign" orchestra, of course)
1901712;1552470315;a111;Logged on 2019-03-11 16:29 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901354 << spyked - i was thinking, 'let's make torrent', then realized that torrent is some (afaik) largely unexplored heathenware, possibly due for a civilized replacement. might be worth expanding on if anyone has free hands.
1901713;1552471234;spyked;(to elaborate: high-speed internet "outside of ro" was accessible mainly through uni pipes until at least cca 2003 or so; in particular in upb, most of the networking infrastructure projects were at the time due to one eduard andrei, meanwhile forgotten by the interwebs)
1901714;1552483026;asciilifeform;'Welcome to freenode. To protect the network all new connections will be scanned for vulnerabilities' << lol!!
1901715;1552483167;asciilifeform;spyked: seems like the joke is on the folx who shot the shoemaker , who ~maybe~-sent police if he thought you had particular kind of bits on paper , and then spread legs for nato reich, who send police if they think you have ~another~ kind of bits, on yer hdd..
1901716;1552488864;mircea_popescu;spyked that's exactly why, undernet is almost entirely ro-based.
1901717;1552488881;mircea_popescu;who knew that the 50% problem exists in the general!!11
1901718;1552489458;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they shot the shoemaker, ironically enough, because he was excessively like me for their taste. their principal objections, unvoiced but truthfully and authentically reconstructed, were in order that 1) he sent them to do manual labour, in complete disdain of their self-identification ("we're intellectuals!!!") ; 2) he was unimpressed by the rest of their http://trilema.com/2016/the-next-generation/ hallucinatio
1901719;1552489458;mircea_popescu;ns, to the degree of not providing them with the requisite aspirational goods to enact the pretense and 3) he was ~critical~. there's even a moment at the "meeting with the writers" where he points out that he's not really taking them seriously, but maybe one day they manage to build an intellectual system that can take his criticism.
1901720;1552489492;mircea_popescu;guy got shot for realism.
1901721;1552489929;mircea_popescu;"Tov. Nicolae Ceauşescu: Încă cu scriitorii n-am făcut o şedinţă ca să critic cum ştiu eu. Dar vă pun în vedere că o să ne pregătim pentru aceasta." literally.
1901722;1552490011;mircea_popescu;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1PzKG/?raw=true << whole thing, for the curious.
1901723;1552490127;mircea_popescu;the only truthful expression of history is to say nicolae ceausescu was the first mayogender victim.
1901724;1552490160;mircea_popescu;didn't love the hippos for the special and unique snowflake of a woman they really were ~deep~ inside.
1901725;1552490326;mircea_popescu;even MORE ironically, one can quite say [www.stirimondene.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/alina_mungiu_pippidi_10197000.jpg][this] was the face of the opposition. (chick married [http://trilema.com/2009/el-ingenioso-hidalgo-don-quijote-de-la-mancha-si-conul-andrei-pippidi/][that dork], hence the double name.)
1901726;1552490359;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901718 << that's exactly my reading of the events. ( and dun fughet to add, he, ohnoez, made'em pay the debt!111 )
1901727;1552490359;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 15:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they shot the shoemaker, ironically enough, because he was excessively like me for their taste. their principal objections, unvoiced but truthfully and authentically reconstructed, were in order that 1) he sent them to do manual labour, in complete disdain of their self-identification ("we're intellectuals!!!") ; 2) he was unimpressed by the rest of their http://trilema.com/2016/the-next-generation/ hallucinatio
1901728;1552490461;asciilifeform;tov. c was quite unlike mircea_popescu in 1 important way , tho -- he neglected the disease until was unmanageable, was - near as i can tell - pretty soft (vs, e.g., stalin), very little 'prophylactic' depantsuiting in his reign
1901729;1552490496;mircea_popescu;(remarkably pantsuit, the fat orc, btw. synchronicity to a t, including [http://archive.is/MeqqO#selection-475.0-475.158]["russian secret services!!!"] wank while it was still fashionable in washington, last narrative gasp before teh dnc died.
1901730;1552490549;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform dood was quite unsophisticated, had this very... well, fundamentally a peasant's worldview, deeply optimistic and over-inclined to fit-in-head.
1901731;1552490563;asciilifeform;nowadays any mcd-eater can become this, eh. but as i understand then it took some pull, to wangle the calories
1901732;1552490644;mircea_popescu;the communications breakdown during the ~only almost-meaningful attempt during "trial" is imo relevant. looky : http://trilema.com/2011/procesul-ceausescu/#selection-665.0-665.87
1901733;1552490676;*;asciilifeform had in fact read the trial log
1901734;1552490691;mircea_popescu;the guy points out that almost all villages got bakers' built. this is factually true, and important -- gotta understand romania is TODAY, and STILL, the one country in europe where 1/3 or so of schools have no running water.
1901735;1552490709;mircea_popescu;when it joined the eu, the % of barnhouses in the eu incresed like 30 fold.
1901736;1552490730;mircea_popescu;so yes, the building of bakers' in ~all villages, so the dorks can have day-old bread rather than week-old bread, is an important point.
1901737;1552490776;mircea_popescu;and to him, this makes sense. "what sort of moron would you have to be, to not understand than 100`000 bakers' for 100`000 places that had no bakers' since aurelian's withdrawal is way the fuck a bigger deal than 5 homos upset because nobody is using the right zhernouns."
1901738;1552490793;mircea_popescu;and sure, it does make sense. but THEY make no sense to him whatsoever.
1901739;1552490829;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> asciilifeform dood was quite unsophisticated, had this very... well, fundamentally a peasant's worldview, deeply optimistic and over-inclined to fit-in-head. << Well... "Dallas"
1901740;1552490831;mircea_popescu;and didn't, for 30-odd years.
1901741;1552490840;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo right ?
1901742;1552490946;BingoBoingo;The fixation on one piece of outsider media is a thing in the German Peasant tradition
1901743;1552490979;mircea_popescu;so yes, the principal driver behind " very little 'prophylactic' depantsuiting in his reign" (which is factual) was... very little capacity to conceptualize the pantsuitism. because of the EXACT http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901577 thought process (though he's not nearly as elegant in his thinking, nor did he have enough sense to keep a fucking blog, so as to GET this elegant.)
1901744;1552490979;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 22:09 asciilifeform: an asciilifeform who had never touched microshit, i suspect, would be a better man than asciilifeform who did..
1901745;1552491020;mircea_popescu;ceausescu who didn't touch pantsuitism was certainly a better deadman than the imaginary one who had.
1901746;1552491086;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: through my (admittedly inexpert) lens, d00d loox like archaetypical lion trainer who served up many a cookie but neglected entirely the whip
1901747;1552491101;mircea_popescu;this is not true, plenty of dorks ended up in prison.
1901748;1552491112;mircea_popescu;the problem is -- he tended to imprison the dorks he understood more than the dorks he didn't.
1901749;1552491127;BingoBoingo;Like Franco probably just wanted to ranch and watch the cows, but guild is house with that oil wealth
1901750;1552491140;mircea_popescu;and he systematically didn't understand the ~only set of dorks who belonged in jail, as a sort of public service, for re-realization.
1901751;1552491151;asciilifeform;i suspect he was working from stalin, but not the actual one, but own mental phanto
1901752;1552491153;asciilifeform;m thereof
1901753;1552491158;asciilifeform;who sent to gulag 'for joke'
1901754;1552491172;mircea_popescu;and this because he ~opted not to~ (unawaredly, but just as opted) through the exact process of "this is too stupid to understand". it is too stupid to understand ~deliberately~ and FOR THAT PURPOSE.
1901755;1552491181;mircea_popescu;there's a somewhere in the log /me explains how this all works.
1901756;1552491202;asciilifeform;( where actual one, sent in '37-'38 mostly folx who were the most disgusting bootlicks, fattest apparatchiks, they continued to send! him! letters! with 'tov. stalin, to whom i remain most loyal servant..' etc )
1901757;1552491297;mircea_popescu;i can see it, "worked for stalin coincidentally, had ceased working by 70s". notwithstanding that the EXACT picture perfect rendition of said bootlick : http://trilema.com/2010/la-moartea-lui-adrian-paunescu/ (a fellow who i declared dead on trilema a week before he actuallty died, ro press "omitted to notice", by the way, a week later, when the "suprising event" occured)
1901758;1552491328;mircea_popescu;to this day i remain most proud of this particular instance,  out of all of trilema's time-bending achievements.
1901759;1552491343;mircea_popescu;people even comment "wtf, he's not dead" and shit.
1901760;1552491397;asciilifeform;i gotta bite, an' ask, how is ~that~ bit of magic maintained...? do they have an eliza running, to post as him ? or how else anyone thinks 'not dead'
1901761;1552491420;mircea_popescu;but anyway -- disgustingly fat, yes, pinnacle of asskissing, yes, sent weekly letters "tov. shoemaker, to whom i remain most loyal servant" in prison, yes.
1901762;1552491433;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform he died november 5th. article was oct 30th.
1901763;1552491440;asciilifeform;aa aaaa
1901764;1552491540;mircea_popescu;was retroactived into "oh, he had been sick", but this is both factually untrue and completely unknown at the time. in the sense "obama is president of china" is completely unknown at this time.
1901765;1552491559;asciilifeform;re 'understand' -- loox like c not only managed to avoid 'understand', but also somehow surrounded himself with viziers who ditto ?
1901766;1552491565;mircea_popescu;yes.
1901767;1552491600;mircea_popescu;it is very difficult to surround self with viziers who understand what you don't. those are called co-caesars in rome.
1901768;1552491601;asciilifeform;aint the whole point of a vizier, to handle the 'i can either king or learn c++' problem ?
1901769;1552491640;mircea_popescu;not exactly. there must be a thread, uniting things to the center of the world. if there's no thread, there has to be a change. if the thread's valid but interrupted at center you have to recenter.
1901770;1552491666;asciilifeform;i dun think he had the 'if they aint retarded, they will co-caesar and eventually eat me' problem -- consider pacepa.
1901771;1552491688;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do me a favour, let's go through an what-if.
1901772;1552491696;asciilifeform;( who yes later miami, but spent good, what, 3 decades of a++ work )
1901773;1552491705;*;asciilifeform listens
1901774;1552491751;mircea_popescu;suppose we're all us, but we're not us in the following sense(s) : a) we're all married, in the sovok style ; b) we all have sons, about g_l's age ; c) it comes to light that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900877
1901775;1552491751;a111;Logged on 2019-03-07 23:18 asciilifeform: buncha kids, mostly of local party elite, seekritly sewed themselves some semblance of ss uniform, and raised swastica flag at night on city hall; then marched to cemetery and laid half a tonne of flowers on old white army graves
1901776;1552491756;mircea_popescu;now you tell what would mp do.
1901777;1552491792;asciilifeform;i'd expect it'd be same as what stalin did in this exact case
1901778;1552491804;mircea_popescu;mno, i'm not stalin.
1901779;1552491810;mircea_popescu;we're just a buncha officers yes.
1901780;1552491824;asciilifeform;send the sad sons off to the front, the less braindamaged ones come back, the rest 'die the death of heroes'
1901781;1552491839;asciilifeform;in their stead, appoint to the succession some functional folx
1901782;1552491851;mircea_popescu;mnope.
1901783;1552491897;asciilifeform;then i'm stumped, 1941-45 was my 1 crib sheet re problem
1901784;1552491953;mircea_popescu;a) i would ~ignore~ the sons. you've seen me do it before, yet it's not obvious to you. death of heroes belongs to they showing some promise, why muddy it up. what if i mixed some mud in your cocktail ? i would not insult the heroes-in-baking by this addition.
1901785;1552491969;asciilifeform;well gorby et al ignored, where could've instead sent'em to 'hero' in afghan
1901786;1552491972;asciilifeform;see how it worked for'em ?
1901787;1552491998;mircea_popescu;b) i would deliver ~the wife~, naked other than for being beaten black and blue, straight out of the trunk into the courtyard of her ancestral home, and publicly explain to her father that if i ever hear of any of their intolerable kin he'll hear obituaries.
1901788;1552492018;asciilifeform;ivan iv used this algo
1901789;1552492029;asciilifeform;ended up with vacant throne and coupla decades of kakobreklas
1901790;1552492032;mircea_popescu;it is the correct algo. cut off the lost node and pressure the last conneected node.
1901791;1552492055;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform correct algo comes with no guarantee of fitness for particular purpose.
1901792;1552492056;asciilifeform;he ran outta nodes tho, cuz no harem
1901793;1552492070;asciilifeform;afaik that there's the 'hole through which night came'
1901794;1552492071;mircea_popescu;yes well. the word for that is manalone.
1901795;1552492084;mircea_popescu;"chitlins, what do they call single-node trees in the republic ?"
1901796;1552492122;asciilifeform;i gotta agree with mircea_popescu re item -- king with single-engined harem is like boeing on 1 motor
1901797;1552492123;mircea_popescu;but see, one needn't be stalin. officers in question had all they needed, did not apply.
1901798;1552492187;mircea_popescu;also very effectual at quelling the female will-to-spawn. "do you understand what will happen if you make me an idiot ?"
1901799;1552492279;asciilifeform;i still dunget fully why ivan did not enharem. he had all the 'ducks lined up', boiled in oil good % of the folx in any position to constructively object, even ran experiment where half the kingdom was a personal human-hunt reservation, to test.
1901800;1552492298;asciilifeform;the obv. next step, seems , is to actually use that fucking crown
1901801;1552492299;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901730
1901802;1552492299;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 15:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dood was quite unsophisticated, had this very... well, fundamentally a peasant's worldview, deeply optimistic and over-inclined to fit-in-head.
1901803;1552492306;asciilifeform;gotta be
1901804;1552492319;mircea_popescu;"why should i be bothered with a bunch of them". henry also serial-monogamized, rather than make them eat eachj other out.
1901805;1552492361;asciilifeform;tho i must add, unlike shoemaker, ivan was a thinkin' man, spent good % of his life in his (lost to indiana jones warehouse) megalibrary, an' playin' chess etc with courtiers, scheming how to fuck english queen, and so forth
1901806;1552492384;mircea_popescu;comprehending is a draw on mental energy ; comprehending women perhaps the largest ; unschooled orcs perceive this issue whereby the costs mount exponentially and the marginal benefit is nil (you can only fuck one hole at a timwe anyways!!).
1901807;1552492389;mircea_popescu;needless to say, orc thought is dumb.
1901808;1552492396;BingoBoingo;That Xtian thing's a helluva shackle
1901809;1552492422;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: d00d was in a 9000x better pos than e.g. henry viii , to make 'own church, with hookers, an' blackjack' and fuckerryone
1901810;1552492433;mircea_popescu;this is true.
1901811;1552492433;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: But he didn't
1901812;1552492440;mircea_popescu;this is also true.
1901813;1552492440;BingoBoingo;And neither did Henry
1901814;1552492446;asciilifeform;it is therefore much moar of a puzzler, why didn't
1901815;1552492454;asciilifeform;recall that ivan was caesaropope
1901816;1552492480;BingoBoingo;Henry simply did a weak XT attack on the church. Did not hang all of the pedotards
1901817;1552492530;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform wasn't ivan raised by a regency, in the manner the prince of talleyrand-perigord also describes, "as a vagrant or the poorest of the poor" ?
1901818;1552492536;asciilifeform;henry had to '51%' his church into programmability, ivan -- not, was already in pos to 'from nao on you pray to my left foot'
1901819;1552492619;asciilifeform;regency yes, re the rest i have nfi
1901820;1552492622;asciilifeform;throne at 15.
1901821;1552492641;mircea_popescu;yes, but his mother got poisoned as a little boy, and up until 15 he was... a peasant ?
1901822;1552492672;asciilifeform;afaik moar of palace hostage than 'peasant'
1901823;1552492766;mircea_popescu;i suppose matter should remain open for he who can be arsed to read on it ; that's the best i have for a theory in the meanwhile.
1901824;1552492787;asciilifeform;he ~did~ iirc spend moar time than is healthy around priests
1901825;1552492847;asciilifeform;sorta how the classical education worked there.
1901826;1552492876;asciilifeform;i.e. take in some god swill with erry spoonful of latin, greek
1901827;1552492915;mircea_popescu;i don't imagine the concept of "god" is per se harmful. greeks also had, and various others.
1901828;1552492951;asciilifeform;the xtian ver. seems to be considerably moar rotting of brain
1901829;1552492958;asciilifeform;what with god as puppeteer etc
1901830;1552493015;asciilifeform;greek gods read rather moar like the americans' favourite 'superheroes', humanlike.
1901831;1552493062;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> greek gods read rather moar like the americans' favourite 'superheroes', humanlike. << Except better because they fucked hooker and played proto blackjack
1901832;1552493066;mircea_popescu;it is quite the case usistani "superheroes" are mcdonaldization of greek pantheon, yeah.
1901833;1552493072;asciilifeform;how else.
1901834;1552493105;diana_coman;eh, re ceausescu, they first killed whatever elite there still was and then they got all critical and whatnot; lasati
1901835;1552493125;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plox to expand ?
1901836;1552493380;asciilifeform;revisiting upstack re ivan and his missing harem -- suleyman is even moar of a case of wtf, had not only correct 'church', but working harem, and then 'wrapped it around telephone pole' when roxy
1901837;1552493648;mircea_popescu;suleyman had the worst harem possible, his mom picked it.
1901838;1552493781;asciilifeform;point
1901839;1552493819;asciilifeform;tho this simply moves the recursion, ~somebody~ up the line had to let things get to this
1901840;1552493936;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I suppose one of those days I'll sink the time in and properly write-it all up and at least be done with it; I knew people who were not allowed to study at university because of "poor background" meaning that there parents had university studies; I also knew people who were pushed to the university because of "good background" although they did not have either inclination or desire for it; and leaving aside how this is to my
1901841;1552493936;diana_coman; mind ~exactly the same as current "equality!!!" quotas and whatnots, I consider that the moment one does this systematically, there is right to complain that he ends up with idiots
1901842;1552493956;diana_coman;their* parents, of course
1901843;1552493956;asciilifeform;diana_coman: sounds like replay of early sovok
1901844;1552493974;asciilifeform;'социально чуждые элементы'
1901845;1552494034;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i can't get behind the usual reaction where 'noshit, this is retarded, what didja expect' tho. how the fuck ~else~ do you properly purge an oldregime wot ?
1901846;1552494051;diana_coman;for completeness, I can say that I know from direct experience both force-peasants-to-town-into-big-houses and vanish in the night for having had too much wealth beforehand; none of it (in either case) is an achievement as far as I can see
1901847;1552494102;asciilifeform;i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art.
1901848;1552494137;diana_coman;asciilifeform, if you are into purging, at least purge the whole lot and be done with it; this sort of "let's cut the elite and then we grow a new one out of our ass" is stupid
1901849;1552494178;asciilifeform;and yes it's quite destructive. but rly not moar so than the properly-dynastic oh so civilized west euros ~thermonuking their kingdoms in ww1 for perfectly nonjacobin 'great game' reasons
1901850;1552494182;mircea_popescu;diana_coman what, the horses ? the "killed elite" thing would be what, [http://trilema.com/2011/trei-exemple-si-o-concluzie/#comment-39254][i gh duca] ? (and guess what, digging for that reference i also ran into -- apparently there's [http://trilema.com/2011/charles-maurice-de-perigord/][a piece] re the afore mentioned prince)
1901851;1552494186;diana_coman;also re stale bread vs new bread I disagree mircea_popescu ; people used to make their OWN bread; not stale
1901852;1552494198;*;diana_coman has to run, will bbl
1901853;1552494201;asciilifeform;new elite grows always either from arse or from foreign conquest, from where else, martians aint about to parachute one in
1901854;1552494222;mircea_popescu;any kind of ro elite was long gone by the time ceausescu came in, he gets to hide behind ye olde "greaua mostenire" trope.
1901855;1552494268;mircea_popescu;diana_coman but ~which people~ ? whole point of industrialization is moving from the traditional to the modern. is the idea that ceausescu is somehow personally responsible for the fact ?
1901856;1552494339;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art. << Well there is the US Socialist Disney block by block reformat algo as well
1901857;1552494341;asciilifeform;e.g. i have a (long-dead) distant kinsman whose father stayed alive in '20s strictly cuz he burned his swiss diploma. pretty sure ~erryone in sovokistans has a similar tale.
1901858;1552494342;mircea_popescu;in any case, you will notice that we ourselves are purging this supposed "elite" and growing one, literally, from our arse.
1901859;1552494377;mircea_popescu;and i daresay that the thing is working admirably well ; but not nearly as well as the sovok mechanism did in fact work -- the imperial officers would never have beaten the wehrmacht, for one thing.
1901860;1552494451;mircea_popescu;is the only distinction that i don't actually hang the various negrated morons ? because i can swear it is to me a merely cosmetic matter, i would not lift finger one to stop it if they were in fact beheaded for it, and stalin did MORE than me in this vein, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-02#1877763
1901861;1552494451;a111;Logged on 2018-12-02 00:07 asciilifeform: there's a preserved communique from stalin to hrusch, where the latter served up umpteenth list of meat grinder candidates and stalin replied 'rejected, have measure, idiot'
1901862;1552494453;asciilifeform;sovok , fwiw, properly poured cement over the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-03#1611080 thing
1901863;1552494453;a111;Logged on 2017-02-03 05:29 phf: my mom had one of those "papa escaped the purges by burning all paperwork but life got tough when they took our governess" piano teachers, who would lament about being forced to teach peasants and brown folk, not on racial grounds as much as "you have to have a bidet in your house for 3 generations, before you can touch a piano"
1901864;1552494491;asciilifeform;lots and lotsa grade-a folx , literally outta the mud, and straight into 'take country from wooden plough to thermonuke and moon buggy'
1901865;1552494576;*;mircea_popescu is vaguely curious if a century hence there will be tears shed over "all the destruction". someone's gonna cry for systemd, what.
1901866;1552494624;mircea_popescu;"but mp, it worked. and we loved it". at least the horses were alive, that merits something. "but our figments and hallucinations -- just as alive to us!!!"
1901867;1552494639;asciilifeform;'bout the same as we cry for the church derps voltaire poured cement on
1901868;1552494650;mircea_popescu;lotta that in france.
1901869;1552494706;mircea_popescu;anyway, back to suleyman -- it is ~conceivable~, and definitely an excellent premise for an umberto eco-like novel, that suleyman gave up his harem to try and produce a harem generator that didn't suck.
1901870;1552494718;mircea_popescu;"roxy you dumb whore, get your sons women like you, not like your dumb mother."
1901871;1552494720;asciilifeform;eh if there's reservations of profoundly touched tards where they cry for the 'matriarchate' aboriginals, wainot also this.
1901872;1552494742;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a++ idea for an eco.
1901873;1552494747;mircea_popescu;i'd read it.
1901874;1552494756;*;asciilifeform would defo read
1901875;1552494763;mircea_popescu;even though i know how it ends.
1901876;1552494783;asciilifeform;all ecos are where you know how ends.
1901877;1552494787;asciilifeform;goes with the genre.
1901878;1552494904;mircea_popescu;she hangs herself, over sheer despair, at the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-15#1670676 coming out of her.
1901879;1552494904;a111;Logged on 2017-06-15 14:44 mircea_popescu: dude what is with this djb-ing sexually ambiguous 20something street urchins
1901880;1552494944;asciilifeform;sorta why asciilifeform goes in for the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-02#1877828 take on the histories
1901881;1552494944;a111;Logged on 2018-12-02 16:06 asciilifeform: nao, on other hand, 'cyclical histories' where 'confederacy of dunces' gangs up and dethrones their betters, and then whole edifice turns to shit, from shit grows sumthing new, etc. -- this i can buy, we're quite evidently in the trough of that sinusoid just nao
1901882;1552494959;mircea_popescu;"i made chair, for man to sit in, with my hands as directed by my head, and an endless supply of stirpituri & tirituri, with my cunt, as directed by the cock going into it. WOE IS ME!"
1901883;1552495036;asciilifeform;( recall, the not long ago thrd where a: 'cultures are born, live, senesce, and die, like organisms' m:'poppycock' a:'best i got that makes any sense of the sinusoid')
1901884;1552495101;mircea_popescu;the qualiy of your summaries recommends you to writing on bimbo.club.
1901885;1552495123;asciilifeform;lol
1901886;1552495850;asciilifeform;upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901856 << i suspect this is red herring. it is 'institution' making a stab at regaining lost territory. asciilifeform's suspicion is that if 'history struggle', it aint between so much specifically 'new and old elite' as b/w human-man ( who wakes up and knows that he was put upon the earth to cut atom, build harem, etc ) and beetle-man, who 'knows' that he was born to eat from trough prikok
1901887;1552495850;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 16:25 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art. << Well there is the US Socialist Disney block by block reformat algo as well
1901888;1552495851;asciilifeform;e-style and 'let nuffin happen', ohnoez, 'happening could get in the way'
1901889;1552495861;asciilifeform;the dichotomy amply documented by mircea_popescu & other folx
1901890;1552495903;asciilifeform;i.e. the 2 contenders in the ring, are man and pig
1901891;1552496098;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, as i understand, maps the 'pig' to 'female', but the model is quite same, this is moar of a label on the knobs
1901892;1552496161;mircea_popescu;it is a constant complaint of the actual females, this. and one i always agree with -- when they bring it. because yes, there's nothing fundamentally female about the pig.
1901893;1552496197;asciilifeform;when weighs 200kg, difficult for non-zoologist to distinguish boar and sow, is where the similarity.
1901894;1552496221;mircea_popescu;but there ~IS~ something fundamentally piggish about the contemporaneous female, if the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901725 illustration didn't bring it into focus.
1901895;1552496221;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 15:18 mircea_popescu: even MORE ironically, one can quite say [www.stirimondene.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/alina_mungiu_pippidi_10197000.jpg][this] was the face of the opposition. (chick married [http://trilema.com/2009/el-ingenioso-hidalgo-don-quijote-de-la-mancha-si-conul-andrei-pippidi/][that dork], hence the double name.)
1901896;1552496225;mircea_popescu;oink-oinkelite.
1901897;1552496253;asciilifeform;the boars very similar.
1901898;1552496282;asciilifeform;hence BingoBoingo's sharp 'third sex, mayo' observation
1901899;1552496343;BingoBoingo;Which I merely captured from the fat people hate movement
1901900;1552496381;asciilifeform;erry 'hate movement' is a cluster of lymphocytes around a very real irritant to organism.
1901901;1552496418;mircea_popescu;well, maybe not every, but plenty of contemporraneous ones. (see ? again with the "is pig female or is female pig" conundrum. captive in history as we are...)
1901902;1552496454;asciilifeform;pig, i suspect, when of prikoke mass, is simply pig.
1901903;1552496529;mircea_popescu;consider the traditional antisemitism -- a cluster of lumphocytes around a very real problem, yes, but SUBJECTIVE PROBLEM OF THE JEWS. not irritating "the organism" as such in any sense, beyond the very obvious an' deeply human "you folk can't be this fucking stupid!" [http://trilema.com/2013/the-dead-jew-and-the-raped-girl/][thing]
1901904;1552496599;asciilifeform;there is such a thing as autoimmune reaction.
1901905;1552496633;mircea_popescu;i guess this is a workable forcing of the metaphore.
1901906;1552496709;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform amusingly, do you recall all the wank re cern cyclotron, "what if it brings about end of world ?!?!?!"
1901907;1552496715;asciilifeform;i do
1901908;1552496718;mircea_popescu;next time, they ain't losing the "debate".
1901909;1552496730;mircea_popescu;if there's even gonna be a next time. i doubt it.
1901910;1552496736;asciilifeform;and then iirc it broke down and 'moar studies needed' an' 'give us another $trillion of printola' and all was quiet
1901911;1552496840;asciilifeform;sorta why those thread where , e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-11#1501221 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-11#1501380
1901912;1552496840;a111;Logged on 2016-07-11 16:29 asciilifeform: fundamental reason being, a gigantic machine employs and merit-washes 1,000,001 mediocrities
1901913;1552496840;a111;Logged on 2016-07-11 17:14 asciilifeform: the whole field now consists of 'gimme' artists.
1901914;1552496871;asciilifeform;the mega-cyclotron is not an instrument of physics, but of f35-style printing press diversion.
1901915;1552496901;asciilifeform;whether physics-flavoured or wunderwaffen-flavoured or 'end poverty'(tm)(r)-flavoured, they're all quite alike
1901916;1552496998;asciilifeform;recall story of where asciilifeform ~personally~ described to schwartz how to cut adelberger 100% out of the loop for under what mircea_popescu's bmw costs.
1901917;1552497006;mircea_popescu;ima not bother to reiterate the period thread.
1901918;1552497017;asciilifeform;is wai we have log linx!11
1901919;1552497021;asciilifeform;so dun have to replay.
1901920;1552497100;asciilifeform;but will add that i'd have easier time believing the 'physics picked the low-hanging fruit and now you NEED synchrophasotron for $trillion to do ANY' yarn , if it weren't a balloon fulla fart that i can on occasion puncture with fingernail without breaking a sweat
1901921;1552497350;mircea_popescu;dunno argument was "low hanging fruit". they wanna see what happens at high energy. the only way to see is to make. approximately situation of "when it comes to cooking, don't have to order out. alf has this method of making polenta, works well!" "and if i want lobster ?" "well then you gotta buy a lobster". getting indignant over how "wanting lobster only serves to drive an impossible wedge between budget and mariscos mercha
1901922;1552497350;mircea_popescu;nt resulting in ordering out" is a little shakily footed.
1901923;1552497371;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: argument is not that you ought not to want to 'try it at high energy'
1901924;1552497390;mircea_popescu;there can genuinely arise the situation where people who aren't necessarily trying to find their way to arby's / olive garden / we are nevertheless sick of polenta and saving to buy a lobster.
1901925;1552497421;asciilifeform;argument is that the field went to stuff head up own arse, and took convenient excuse to 'you now NEED the high priest machine, or you aint in physics' to incaize
1901926;1552497511;asciilifeform;!#s xray lens
1901927;1552497512;a111;1 result for "xray lens", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=xray%20lens
1901928;1552497524;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-04#1884412 <
1901929;1552497524;a111;Logged on 2019-01-04 17:15 asciilifeform: in other olds, apparently i slept through this, but in early 2000s some ru d00d actually built a ~non-grazing~ lens for xray. for pennies, at that.
1901930;1552497544;asciilifeform;^ fiddycents. and didn't need 9000 jobsworths, but 1 ru d00d.
1901931;1552497552;asciilifeform;and genuinely newphysics.
1901932;1552497616;asciilifeform;those lobsters, mircea_popescu , cost 0, they are already invisibly in erry kitchen.
1901933;1552497630;asciilifeform;like napoleon's 'there is a marshall's baton in erry private's rucksack' item.
1901934;1552497736;mircea_popescu;yeah well.
1901935;1552497764;asciilifeform;'but asciilifeform , if you want lobster, you gotta build a $9000b fishing fleet' 'mno, here's 1 from your own dryer lint trap, and it can bend xrays and modexp in constant time, naowat'
1901936;1552497787;asciilifeform;'not fair'
1901937;1552498044;asciilifeform;the lhc aint an instrument of physics, simply from the fact that the people who control access to it, and the catamites they grant it to, aint physicists ! the actual physicists are drilling little holes in aluminum , in kitchens.
1901938;1552498056;asciilifeform;sorta like the actual bitcoin maintainers, are here, and not mit.
1901939;1552498162;asciilifeform;exactly like the 'actual chemists' nao, are the people who are looking for simpler syntheses of meth and 'ecstasy' out of not-yet-banned hardware shop crapola, and not the monkeys who sit all day doing http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900867
1901940;1552498162;a111;Logged on 2019-03-07 21:49 asciilifeform: 'enantiomeric' patent -- cheapest trick in that box
1901941;1552498251;asciilifeform;when a wot (whichever wot, physics, austria-hungary, shitoshi's, etc - dun matter) makes the transition to 'institution', the ~actual life~ is definitionally to be found ~outside~ of it
1901942;1552498260;asciilifeform;inside -- pig 'life'.
1901943;1552498275;*;asciilifeform bbl: actual work
1901944;1552499290;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2012/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this-entire-deflation-problem/#selection-69.0-81.360 << In not quite mariscos, a number of local grocers here carry frozen Vietnamese farmed catfish.
1901945;1552499302;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/china-makes-humanitarian-move-to-aid-venezuala-restore-electricity-amid-dam-sabotage/ << Qntra -- China Makes Humanitarian Move To Aid Venezuala Restore Electricity Amid Dam Sabotage
1901946;1552500829;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in Spain: https://archive.is/sQ5Pr
1901947;1552500888;BingoBoingo;"La misma impotencia, o más, sienten las chicas del CB Guadalaviar. Ganaron la liga femenina la temporada pasada. El otro día perdieron 50-4 contra un rival masculino. Hemos pasado de ser campeonas de liga el año pasado a sentirnos humilladas. Es un chasco de competición, todo esto desmotiva, porque todos los partidos acabamos por los suelos con golpes."
1901948;1552504899;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/Tfqyw << "Varias calles de la Ciudad Vieja permanecen cortadas y con desvíos luego de que varios vidrios de edificios de la zona estallaran con los vientos que se registraron en las últimas horas." But what did the wind blow? "En la madrugada de este miércoles un vidrio del décimo piso de la Torre Ejecutiva" Ah, the Presidential office tower got its 10th floor windows blown out. Not by a bomb. This Angloph
1901949;1552504899;BingoBoingo;one America. This terrorist was the weather!
1901950;1552505103;BingoBoingo;And in this busy local news day, the new criminal code in action https://www.subrayado.com.uy/compro-objetos-robados-y-la-justicia-lo-condena-hacer-100-tortafritas-y-donarlas-n528679
1901951;1552506865;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-viii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part VIII.
1901952;1552507693;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901854 -> myeah, he gets to hide behind that indeed.
1901953;1552507693;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 16:23 mircea_popescu: any kind of ro elite was long gone by the time ceausescu came in, he gets to hide behind ye olde "greaua mostenire" trope.
1901954;1552507737;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901855 -> his "move" was - as most - very much in the vein of "this is the shop where we don't have fish"
1901955;1552507737;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 16:24 mircea_popescu: diana_coman but ~which people~ ? whole point of industrialization is moving from the traditional to the modern. is the idea that ceausescu is somehow personally responsible for the fact ?
1901956;1552507803;asciilifeform;diana_coman: historic inland peasant may well have easily born and died without eating a fish, tho
1901957;1552507815;asciilifeform;that , imho, is what to compare to
1901958;1552507872;diana_coman;and that's valid for the 1000 bakeries too; I suppose one can argue that it's still an achievement to have bakeries with no bread than to have no bakeries and stale bread but I don't buy it; and note that in the 80's the latest brightest idea (in the same vein, all hail!) was to further do this sort of great "improvement", to wit the communal "neighbourhood kitchen" to get rid of such waste as having individual kitchens in every hruscheba
1901959;1552507872;diana_coman;(not to mention it's easier without, no?) ; circul foamei
1901960;1552507914;diana_coman;asciilifeform, so having a fish shop without fish is better because he at least knows now that he should have a fish or what?
1901961;1552507937;diana_coman;ftr funnily enough precisely fish was very much missing from ro diet to such extent that yes, there were slogans "nici o masa fara peste"
1901962;1552507988;diana_coman;to get people to eat fish ("no meal without fish" )
1901963;1552509158;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901720 -> maybe; but this sort of "it's enough to make the buildings and name them as to what they are meant to be, because surely then the content will magically appear" doesn't seem much realism to me, quite on the contrary.
1901964;1552509158;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 15:04 mircea_popescu: guy got shot for realism.
1901965;1552509370;diana_coman;si in sfarsit, ca sa citez din profetul care le stia bag seama inca de mult dinainte ca doar nici nu-s noi: "Se cladeste un mare stabiliment artistic, un teatru, de exemplu. De ce? fiindca un stat modern are, intre alte organe de cultura, si astfel de stabilimente. Ei? cauti artisti - ia-i de unde nu sunt. Iti trebuie literatura - nu exista. Iti trebuie public - publicul nu vine la exhibitiile d-tale. Ce-ti mai ramane de facut in aceasta c
1901966;1552509370;diana_coman;ladire, pentru care ai varsat sume colosale si unde ai sa cheltuiesti anual paragrafe anume? Nu-ti ramane alta decat sa faci macar politica."
1901967;1552509543;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i must add also that i went for a week to timis, and for 5 days went past fish market, each time finding there 0 fish. apparently shooting the shoemaker did not fix..
1901968;1552509585;asciilifeform;whod'vethunkit, 'communism cancelled' dun automagically transform an orcistan into 1950s manhattan.
1901969;1552509625;asciilifeform;it sounds retarded, but in ru there was this genuinely large mass of people who thought 'oh hey now we will live like the west(tm)(r)'
1901970;1552509634;diana_coman;with the added bonus that Ibraileanu in 1909 cites from the same piece of Caragiale (Politica si cultura) with the comment that Caragiale was the most acerbic critic of... "liberalism" (the quotations marks are Ibraileanu's) that is further explained as "partidul <<ros>>" aka the red party.
1901971;1552509734;diana_coman;asciilifeform, that communism cancelled doesn't solve the problems is clear, at least for the very simple reason that the problems were there even before communism, sure, as it can be seen from the pieces above that are quite earlier than that.
1901972;1552509746;asciilifeform;does anyone recall old thrd where mircea_popescu linked to a youtube clip of some idiot kid smashing up ancient car that his father gave him, 'cuz not mercedes' ?
1901973;1552509755;asciilifeform;~that~ is how i see the killing of the shoemaker.
1901974;1552509781;diana_coman;I don't recall; but I'm sure that at/after the revolution in Romania the idea was quite the same
1901975;1552509800;asciilifeform;problems in the class of 'no fish' are orig. created by http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920487 , yes
1901976;1552509800;a111;Logged on 2014-11-13 23:14 asciilifeform: (king hunger is actually just an affiliate duke under king thermo)
1901977;1552509823;asciilifeform;poseidon did not deign to make fish get out of ocean, walk to village, and jump into mouth..
1901978;1552509886;diana_coman;asciilifeform, dunno; but take this re fish since you mentioned your experience in Timis; I can still remember when one found a rotten fish among the frozen "fish" with which communism improved one's diet forcibly.
1901979;1552509919;asciilifeform;oddly enuff 0 of this where asciilifeform lived, but then again it ~was~ by the sea
1901980;1552509986;asciilifeform;this kinda thing, 'would rather have no fish than rotten frozen', is presumably how ro ended up having to feed its horses to europistan as unlabeled mystery sausage when eurocrats banned horse on public road
1901981;1552510008;asciilifeform;peasants quite logically dun want to industrialize, it is elementarily misery in immediate term
1901982;1552510014;asciilifeform;which is why stalin didn't bother to ask'em
1901983;1552510026;asciilifeform;shoemaker, near as i can tell, didn't press the point very hard
1901984;1552510052;diana_coman;you know, apparently I was several times unlucky in that - among other things - my hometown was/is an industrial town; which meant for instance that blackouts were very usual (because many powerful industrial consumers and they got priority) while from what I heard in non-industrial towns this wasn't really the case
1901985;1552510119;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i am pleased to inform, we have regular blackouts in washingtonistan, despite 0 industry ( combo of 'errybody has air conditioner' , summer, and 19th c.-style pole wiring - winter )
1901986;1552510132;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I think there what can be said is that it could have certainly be pushed even harder.
1901987;1552510183;asciilifeform;c ( or perhaps this ball belongs with dej ? ) maybe 'soft', or maybe thought could not afford to kill %% of his subjects, i do not presently know why not pushed.
1901988;1552510242;asciilifeform;but elementarily factory, roads, etc. are built out of pile of kicking, screaming meat, not 'from money' or any similar. england had its stalinization in 18th c.
1901989;1552510321;diana_coman;asciilifeform, you know, that's the thing that popped at me as soon as I lived for any amount of time in the west: ffs those people do *of their own will and even paying money for* precisely the idiocies that I thought communism was to blame for. So in this sense, Ceausescu "ahead of his time" , marete realizari etc etc; I still think the direction totally wrong so pushing it further doesn't seem like a great achievement to me, that's all.
1901990;1552510387;asciilifeform;it is above asciilifeform's pay grade to say with what algo to industrialize a kingdom without mass engineered penury and a good helping of butchery for the folx who dun get message. afaik this problem has no known historic pill.
1901991;1552510453;asciilifeform;tho observe also, as soon as the butchery is removed , mentality sinks rapidly back into 'peasant', modern-day ameristani has exactly same relation with his auto as peasant -- horse
1901992;1552510490;asciilifeform;with the diff that auto is 100% powered by 'great inca', you cannot plant petrol inside 'field' in a washington flat to feed to it, nor breed a replacement for when dies
1901993;1552510553;BingoBoingo;Don't forget the unbutchered labor activists in the Southern Cone who will consider shuttering a Ford factory "a win for the people"
1901994;1552510571;diana_coman;to my mind that's precisely the thing: it's not (or not only) that "screaming meat" but the fact that at the end of it, it's only a replacement with what is in fact an inferior, not a superior thing
1901995;1552510575;BingoBoingo;"Samba sí, trabajo no"
1901996;1552510591;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: is exactly what i meant as 'same relation as peasant to his horse', 'it is simply there'
1901997;1552510636;asciilifeform;diana_coman: to paraphrase mao, the jury's still out on whether industry was in fact good deal vs horse an' plow
1901998;1552510686;asciilifeform;the catch is that it aint optional, ro, bulgaria, etc. cancelled their shoemakers, lost industry, and now becomes feed base for foreigners
1901999;1552510699;asciilifeform;just as e.g. ru became mineral market
1902000;1552510751;BingoBoingo;I'm becoming rather convinced the common man encounters a psychological failure mode if they aren't scratching the dirt to avoid starvation
1902001;1552510756;asciilifeform;on my admittedly short expedition i saw 5 dead factories , and 1 working -- little thing inside of much larger corpse ; and it made gears for bmw
1902002;1552510867;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901996 -> "it is simply there" was absolutely not the same relation I saw peasant-horse, no
1902003;1552510867;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:56 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: is exactly what i meant as 'same relation as peasant to his horse', 'it is simply there'
1902004;1552510881;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2011/jaful-si-economia/#selection-23.0-31.529 << apropos.
1902005;1552510956;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes; the contention is whether there is any option in fact to create it out of nothing and moreover by someone who never saw it other than from a distance at best
1902006;1552511033;asciilifeform;diana_coman: in what sense was the attempt 'out of nothing' ?
1902007;1552511074;asciilifeform;e.g. ru, cn , jp , followed ~same path, 'out of meat'. varied slightly in how the meat was herded out of farm and into factory, yes, but same raw material
1902008;1552511114;diana_coman;from zero because "new man" and "proletariat will make now the middle class and the top class and everything else in between" ; oh, and culture and literature-with-party-line too, since we are at it
1902009;1552511147;asciilifeform;'new man' is what happens when 'old man' dun want to get off his horse, basta, donotwant
1902010;1552511200;asciilifeform;so you try an' make a 'new'. and pray that it worx, before 'a bunch of foreigners land on your shores, buy up some local chiefs, chop down your forests, rip the minerals out of your soil, enslave a few generations, and eventually go home, leaving their bastards in charge'
1902011;1552511290;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-04#544129 << see also.
1902012;1552511290;a111;Logged on 2014-03-04 01:25 asciilifeform: counter-derper: 'as the leather seats'
1902013;1552511465;asciilifeform;'the west'(tm)(r) has 'fish in erry supermarket' , only on acct of the accumulated fat of entire generations mercilessly recycled into fuel . that fuel -- is running out, not long left until returns to historic norm of 'want fish, live by the sea and catch it'
1902014;1552511467;diana_coman;look that if we burnt down everything , we wouldn't even be able to chat; sure, make a new whatever but either you find a way to organically grow it with whatever bridges are needed at first out of what is or it's not going to work.
1902015;1552511502;asciilifeform;stalin didn't either immediately conscript erry horse plower into factory.
1902016;1552511507;asciilifeform;'or would not be able to eat'
1902017;1552511560;asciilifeform;it's a slow grinding process. but either the man with the crown sets it in motion, or shortly 'No-one needs to learn to read and write in order to carry rubies out of a deep mine. '
1902018;1552511636;diana_coman;you know, the other funny thing is that all the Russians I talked to were rather shocked when I described every day childhood in an industrial town of the 80s in Romania; and usually the final comment is "hmmm, Romania didn't get to the part where it gets better". Perhaps though I can't quite see exactly how does it get better given the fundamental trouble.
1902019;1552511646;asciilifeform;e.g. ro, lost its sovereignty , and arguably the bill for ~that~ aint even remotely paid yet, nao it hosts nato rockets and became legit target for ru defensive systems
1902020;1552511664;asciilifeform;if these fire , folx in ro will be lucky to have what grows to feed horse, not even speaking of auto or frozen fish.
1902021;1552511701;diana_coman;sure; as mircea_popescu pointed out already, Romania lost already earlier than that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901850
1902022;1552511701;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 16:23 mircea_popescu: diana_coman what, the horses ? the "killed elite" thing would be what, [http://trilema.com/2011/trei-exemple-si-o-concluzie/#comment-39254][i gh duca] ? (and guess what, digging for that reference i also ran into -- apparently there's [http://trilema.com/2011/charles-maurice-de-perigord/][a piece] re the afore mentioned prince)
1902023;1552511713;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 'didn't get to the part where it gets better' << this is the distinct impression i get . and i suspect on acct of the shoemaker being soft.
1902024;1552511723;asciilifeform;'better' requires whole lotta compressed 'worse'.
1902025;1552511783;diana_coman;I can't see any sort of communism that is better.
1902026;1552511824;diana_coman;in terms of communism it was possibly the best communism there ever was, I can readily grant that. My problem is with the fact that it was communism though so...
1902027;1552511846;asciilifeform;earlier tried spreading for the germans. conceivably could [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-14#1813202][have 'drinking bavarian'] and even not as the leather seat, in an alt-hist
1902028;1552511846;a111;Logged on 2018-05-14 16:41 asciilifeform: there's a common set of jokes from su,  q: 'if only we let germany win, we'd be drinking bavarian! riding in mercedes!' a: '... yes, ride in mercedes. but -- as the leather seat.'
1902029;1552511853;diana_coman;i.e. "state property aka nobody's property" and so on
1902030;1552511862;asciilifeform;the 1 thing that defo dun work for 'better' is 'peasant gets to sit on his horse if he wants'
1902031;1552511873;asciilifeform;~that~ goes straight to becoming an africa.
1902032;1552511886;asciilifeform;as soon as you got neighbours that aint african knocking on door.
1902033;1552511934;asciilifeform;england industrialized 'minus communism' but , i'll observe , with quite similar methods , and similar misery
1902034;1552512078;asciilifeform;going upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902021 , oddly enuff per my reading ro ~was~ sovereign during post-stalin sovok. i.e. routinely pissed right in the mouth of e.g. hrusch, and got away scot-free
1902035;1552512078;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:15 diana_coman: sure; as mircea_popescu pointed out already, Romania lost already earlier than that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901850
1902036;1552512095;diana_coman;well, england is particularly good at misery making from what I can tell so I'd even grant them that they probably did the misery part even worse
1902037;1552512143;asciilifeform;tito's yugo, incidentally, similarly sovereign
1902038;1552512173;diana_coman;I meant it lost its options really; and having an uppity peasant "rule" is not going to change that, only make it likely worse and longer
1902039;1552512178;asciilifeform;( tito -- imho genius, somehow pulled off 'communized heavy industry, but private biz for food etc' )
1902040;1552512270;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this is where i admit that it is above my paygrade to say just how 'maybe without shoemaker, less worse and shorter' . if there's a way to keep neighbours from turning yer congo into a resource extraction base without marching peasants at gunpoint to city and having'em stand in front of lathes to make kalashes, i do not know it
1902041;1552512347;asciilifeform;the typical result of attempt, is http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115
1902042;1552512347;a111;Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
1902043;1552512363;asciilifeform;khmers tried in cambodia, got bulldozed by -- lol -- vietnamese army
1902044;1552512459;asciilifeform;as for the old shoemaker, admittedly i never wore a crown, but afaik folx who wear crowns do not have the option of saying 'we lost options'. sorta like the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 thing.
1902045;1552512459;a111;Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
1902046;1552512509;asciilifeform;if yer wearing a crown and you really think 'no options' , you get out the wagner and cyanide and be sure to also dose blondie the dog 1st to make sure as fuck the cyanide is strong enuff
1902047;1552512591;PeterL;trinque: so I am running the cuntoo build script, it seems to have stopped doing anything, the end of the build log http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/whbcf/?raw=true , not sure what to do next here?
1902048;1552512816;diana_coman;asciilifeform, sure, at the root of it being wtf was a shoemaker doing with the crown on his head
1902049;1552512843;asciilifeform;wtf was a flunked seminary student an' bank robber was doing wearing crown, could also ask
1902050;1552512867;asciilifeform;if the dynastic crown-wearer is enuff of a tard, then yes shoemaker, or cabbie, or defrocked priest, will wear
1902051;1552512880;diana_coman;hence my earlier "out of options"
1902052;1552512889;asciilifeform;what did napoleon(?) say , 'crown fell into mud, so i pulled it out'
1902053;1552512921;diana_coman;precisely that: there aren't that many crown wearers to just let the one you have die
1902054;1552512973;asciilifeform;re sovereignty, i cannot resist to add a legendary tidbit : j. hariton , co-designer of sov nukes with kurchatov , in his last yrs of life was reputed to have uttered 'idiot , eltsin, thinks he is getting red carpet reception in washington because he is some kinda man, rather than because they think he has some of my warheads still in working order'
1902055;1552513028;asciilifeform;no warheads -> not only no red carpet, but you get orders from washington transmitted through a leiah at usg dept of state , and not by going into white house.
1902056;1552513200;diana_coman;soft words work best with a big gun sort of news?
1902057;1552513247;asciilifeform;moar of a 'without gun, the words go in 1 direction and are words 'drop on knees an' get ready to please' '
1902058;1552513281;asciilifeform;i wonder whether usg even bothers to ask ro 'democratic' apparatus when it feels like moving the 'aegis' batteries from place to place
1902059;1552513315;asciilifeform;... or when it's time to close the torture dungeon for renovation and open new one
1902060;1552513427;diana_coman;I haven't really followed in ages what democratic this and that is going on in there but I doubt there's anyone to ask anyway
1902061;1552513598;asciilifeform;i dun expect 'following' would tell one much, unless it is in the sense of 'followed gauleit^H^H^H^H^H^Hpresident and bugged his comp'
1902062;1552513723;mircea_popescu;ow megalog!
1902063;1552513755;*;diana_coman goes to read some more Caragiale to calm down
1902064;1552513861;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901947 <<< ahahaha fucktards won't even admit. it's because the boys are mean that they're fat and slow ?
1902065;1552513861;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 18:14 BingoBoingo: "La misma impotencia, o más, sienten las chicas del CB Guadalaviar. Ganaron la liga femenina la temporada pasada. El otro día perdieron 50-4 contra un rival masculino. Hemos pasado de ser campeonas de liga el año pasado a sentirnos humilladas. Es un chasco de competición, todo esto desmotiva, porque todos los partidos acabamos por los suelos con golpes."
1902066;1552513877;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902040 -> ftr the problem is not that he "moved pesants to town" but simply that he did that a. through blatant lies (what communism is) rather than an honest gunpoint if that's what it takes b. failed in the end anyway
1902067;1552513877;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:24 asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is where i admit that it is above my paygrade to say just how 'maybe without shoemaker, less worse and shorter' . if there's a way to keep neighbours from turning yer congo into a resource extraction base without marching peasants at gunpoint to city and having'em stand in front of lathes to make kalashes, i do not know it
1902068;1552514002;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901954 << you wanna discuss the fellow in the strict terms of 1984-1989 ? he found himself promoted (by lack of actual alternative at the time, ftr, not so much he took step forward as everyone else took steep absence) in '65.
1902069;1552514002;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:08 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901855 -> his "move" was - as most - very much in the vein of "this is the shop where we don't have fish"
1902070;1552514037;mircea_popescu;the 60s worked signfiicantly better in east berlin than i nwest berlin. the 80s miserably -- but mind that at the time, the russkis were doing ~even worse~.
1902071;1552514054;mircea_popescu;this isn't made up, either, various high officials joking about it, "what, ima desert in moscow ?! these schmucks have it worse than we do"
1902072;1552514351;mircea_popescu;let's do a quick ro commie likbez : ceausescu took over in '65. he got rid of dej-era leftovers as part and parcel of continuing dej's own policy of escaping the soviets. this the west ineptly (but in typical self-centered manner) misreported as "loosening".
1902073;1552514386;mircea_popescu;he then implemented his own state apparatus. there's nothing peculiar about this -- incoming us president also gets rid of old regime bureaucracy, at least if he has any fucking sense.
1902074;1552514455;mircea_popescu;other than escaping the soviets, he attempted a sort of mini-imperialism, the cutest tchotchke show you could ever imagine, romania as an imperial power of a rag tag group of nowhere countries (including columbia, we discussed the very unhappy lulz of romania when those doods decided to just walk out of "agreements" -- mirroring exactly say spain, over the centuries)
1902075;1552514455;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, "greaua mostenire" cuts both ways though; he gets to hide behind it for a while but he also doesn't get credit for a while
1902076;1552514486;mircea_popescu;as incidentally (and incompehendingly, to him) oil was high then (arab embargo) he decided to center this mini-empire on oil production and refining.
1902077;1552514514;mircea_popescu;whole thing went bankrupt in the 70s, by 72 it was dead. he decided to blame "the jews", as he understood them, hence "show off those slick ny bankers, pay debt".
1902078;1552514517;mircea_popescu;the country never recovered.
1902079;1552514521;diana_coman;and yes, I can see him easily and predictably as a scapegoat; kids, don't take crown found in the mud just because nobody else wants it
1902080;1552514551;mircea_popescu;diana_coman the point of the discussion, though, is to not end up accidentally banning shitting just because ceausescu was known to shit.
1902081;1552514636;mircea_popescu;in his relations to, eg, the "intellectual elite" (in their own mind, and exactly nowhere else) as gathered before him at say neptun, or mangalia, he was entirely correct. and his pointing out that they have yet work to do before their workproduct is as tall as he stands is sound, if unpleasant.
1902082;1552514746;mircea_popescu;what elite ? the [http://trilema.com/2010/in-criza-de-modele/#selection-53.185-53.196][pliiceanu] corps ? that fat pig above ? [http://trilema.com/2009/de-ce-i-gunoi-dinescu/][gunoi dinescu] ? laisses, as inept as ceausescu might've been politically, the culturniks were inept ^ inept.
1902083;1552514747;diana_coman;I suppose it's even ironic that the work he wanted them to do was by all indications closer to their possibilities; after all he wasn't asking for art or culture but simply for the set number of sentences with the set number of correct words and so on.
1902084;1552514754;mircea_popescu;qutie exactly.
1902085;1552514781;mircea_popescu;witness how the "boierii mintii" to this fucking day have on display neither a) work to compare with trilema or else b) the required prosternation before it.
1902086;1552514880;mircea_popescu;ie, it would have been ~better~, and for all of these dorks, to have obeyed ceausescu in '71, and in '83, and whenever else, than to adlai about.
1902087;1552514916;diana_coman;I wasn't even for a second considering *those* elites, no; as I said: elites were long dead by that time; the thing was precisely that being between them, well, he was asking the fat pigs to actually do something; big surprise they oinked only louder trembling that the food might stop.
1902088;1552514950;asciilifeform;i cannot resist to bite, an' ask, diana_coman , why the '83 adlais 'not elite', but the tail ends of habsburg absentee landlords somehow 'elite'
1902089;1552514973;diana_coman;and I'm not actually sure that pointing out "oh, but he was very correctly pointing out to the pigs that they should do something for their food"
1902090;1552514986;diana_coman;makes anything; I mean: talking to the pigs ?
1902091;1552515007;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform romania had this brief surge in the late 1800s / early 1900s. her pov is factual, ro army had better officers than ~most anyone, for instance, and it was proven in both the extrication of the tsar from his inept turkis venture and in ww1.
1902092;1552515048;asciilifeform;if so great -- then wai fungus ate
1902093;1552515053;mircea_popescu;ww2.
1902094;1552515053;diana_coman;asciilifeform, ^ ; I can't really make it any shorter / clearer than that
1902095;1552515087;mircea_popescu;understand the situation : ro army held its 1/4 of stalingradf front with infantry and the occasional tachanka.
1902096;1552515097;mircea_popescu;wehrmacht had tanks, and the finns had impassible terrain.
1902097;1552515119;asciilifeform;so herr hitler shows up and says 'let's you an' i drang nach osten together, howabout'. wai ro elite answrd 'sure' and not 'fuckoff' (like e.g. swiss)
1902098;1552515130;mircea_popescu;because russians not human.
1902099;1552515142;asciilifeform;i dunthink the swiss thought 'ohnoez, human'
1902100;1552515148;asciilifeform;moar like 'i'ma not stick cock in wasp nest'
1902101;1552515156;asciilifeform;why ro, had to put cock in wasps.
1902102;1552515170;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826747
1902103;1552515170;a111;Logged on 2018-06-19 15:59 mircea_popescu: the universal oppinion of romanian officer corps, which, in romania, a country very german, were more than a third of the whole shebang, was that russians are literally worse than dogs.
1902104;1552515191;diana_coman;asciilifeform, at the grassroots thing, quote great-grandmother who lived through both wars: ffs ,the german soldiers were at least clean! the russians got us full of fleas!
1902105;1552515198;asciilifeform;i.e. idea is 'it'll go like pilsudski and not napoleon' ?
1902106;1552515201;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but the russians also didn't ally with swiss against mongol horde only to withdraw midway
1902107;1552515239;mircea_popescu;the incredible mismanagement of world affairs by revolutionary govt cost the russians stalingrad, quite plainly.
1902108;1552515254;mircea_popescu;it's the sort of historical truth people dun wanna hear, but the causation's plain an' obvious.
1902109;1552515309;asciilifeform;dunno that partial differentiation worx in this context. for all i know, if not revolution + stalingrad, then instead http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902010 .
1902110;1552515309;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:06 asciilifeform: so you try an' make a 'new'. and pray that it worx, before 'a bunch of foreigners land on your shores, buy up some local chiefs, chop down your forests, rip the minerals out of your soil, enslave a few generations, and eventually go home, leaving their bastards in charge'
1902111;1552515341;asciilifeform;the old empire was irrecoverably sad as early as 1907.
1902112;1552515342;mircea_popescu;im not saying that staying behind and honoring war committments was POSSIBLE for the russians. i suspect -- was not possible.
1902113;1552515372;mircea_popescu;but nevertheless, diplomatically they were fucking inept. there's one thing to fail on an obligation, there's another to be offensive about it.
1902114;1552515412;asciilifeform;sorta how entente saw the whole ru withdrawal , neh
1902115;1552515413;mircea_popescu;which is why people even have diplomats in the first place, and why the whole "oh, washiongton correspondents dinner" wank ever even had any root in reality :
1902116;1552515425;mircea_popescu;because there's this group of people who talk for you so you don't end up more hated than you need to be.
1902117;1552515447;asciilifeform;the real q is waithefuq should lenin have fought britain's war for it . imho really oughta have ~switched sides~
1902118;1552515481;mircea_popescu;lenin hadn't what to fight a soccer match with, let alone war.
1902119;1552515496;asciilifeform;near as i can tell, that'd be why
1902120;1552515499;mircea_popescu;point being, ro front was half-ru.
1902121;1552515508;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1902122;1552515548;mircea_popescu;easy fix, at peace conference post ww1, instead of "here's what we want" could've been, "oh, romania, sacred mother of our people, plox forgive us"
1902123;1552515590;mircea_popescu;but the galling idiocy of these schmucks actually making territorial demands ? it wasn't gonna be forgotten.
1902124;1552515661;mircea_popescu;soviets needed a slightly larger ukraine like i need slightly longer nose hairs. they ~did~ however need a friendly romania more than they needed hats.
1902125;1552515670;mircea_popescu;hat dun keep stalingrad from starving.
1902126;1552515711;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901954 << not originally. originally, it was in the vein of hungarians driving over to shop in romania.
1902127;1552515711;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:08 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901855 -> his "move" was - as most - very much in the vein of "this is the shop where we don't have fish"
1902128;1552515823;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901958 << it's a matter of infrastructure that's discussed. in any fair comparison, nicu's building/whitewashing butade is actually closer to truth than any aferations of the "european stability and development funds" wank. infrastructurally, romania grew in the 60s and 70s. this was not matched hence (or ever afore, even accounting for surface and population, the carol boom is almost a degr
1902129;1552515823;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:11 diana_coman: and that's valid for the 1000 bakeries too; I suppose one can argue that it's still an achievement to have bakeries with no bread than to have no bakeries and stale bread but I don't buy it; and note that in the 80's the latest brightest idea (in the same vein, all hail!) was to further do this sort of great "improvement", to wit the communal "neighbourhood kitchen" to get rid of such waste as having individual kitchens in every hruscheba
1902130;1552515823;mircea_popescu;ee of magnitude smaller.)
1902131;1552515879;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, when was that original hungarians driving over? because if it's 60s, dunno it has anything to do with him or with greaua mostenire in reverse
1902132;1552515891;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901959 << note how this is EXACTLY what the usgistani is converging to, from both the "airbnb" end and the "communal dwelling for lifetime students" end.
1902133;1552515891;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:11 diana_coman: (not to mention it's easier without, no?) ; circul foamei
1902134;1552515893;diana_coman;and yes, big; useful and durable?
1902135;1552515909;mircea_popescu;guy was ahead of his time, it's not specifically his fault that the spawn-and-divideresources cuntal strategy fails.
1902136;1552515914;diana_coman;aha, I even said it
1902137;1552515927;diana_coman;ahead; not sure on the right road though
1902138;1552515928;mircea_popescu;diana_coman yes, useful and durable. romania got a hidro power structure, for instance. the reason it even has power today.
1902139;1552515998;mircea_popescu;that log thing about "what sovok is -- it's when they take the poor country girl and give her a house for free", that fucking happened. whole generations of what else'd have [been] turned into http://trilema.com/fata-satului got forcibly taught how to be textile mill workers , and got forcibily placed in 1k sqft of new construction to call a house.
1902140;1552516024;mircea_popescu;or a hruscheba, or w/e the fuck they call it. makes entirely no difference, for the vast majority of the population of romania at the time had never lived in paved dwellings.
1902141;1552516037;diana_coman;that is true; I kept thinking of the inept useless huge buildings , not the hydro and roads
1902142;1552516061;mircea_popescu;and the houses! the data's even published on trilema, compare the rfucking living surfaces 1930 to 1960, ie during the two earthquakes.
1902143;1552516063;mircea_popescu;and so on!
1902144;1552516118;diana_coman;uhm, wait
1902145;1552516145;diana_coman;what does 1930 to 1960 have to do with it?
1902146;1552516148;mircea_popescu;yes dood made a palace in a dubious style, that all the [http://trilema.com/2011/voi-ce-ati-facut-in-viata-asta-ba/#selection-33.448-33.791][tircovnici obositi] kept "superiorily" criticizing. but tell you what -- none of them were born in a better palace. they have all the footing to talk that any other african does.
1902147;1552516195;diana_coman;now C gets credit for 1960?
1902148;1552516196;mircea_popescu;diana_coman there were two major earthquakes in romania : nov 1940, and march 1977.
1902149;1552516209;mircea_popescu;willy-nilly these are the points of comparison as to the extant real estate inventory.
1902150;1552516240;mircea_popescu;ie, the carlton fell in 1940.
1902151;1552516421;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901961 << this actually worked into the whole imperialism angle above. ceausescu had both drydocks of large capacity and steel production. decided to make ocean trawlers to compete in the (at the time) ongoing race to the bottom -- throughout 70s world oceans were systematically and industrially depopulated, a classical disaster of commons situation.
1902152;1552516421;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:12 diana_coman: ftr funnily enough precisely fish was very much missing from ro diet to such extent that yes, there were slogans "nici o masa fara peste"
1902153;1552516442;mircea_popescu;the local twerps tho knew better, wouldn't touch the stuff. so it got sold in south-east asia instead.
1902154;1552516451;diana_coman;at any rate, it's not just a palace in dubious style; look at this point of ref: in 1960, new workers in Ploiesti got to buy a strip of land and build their own house; and they did, not one or two but whole streets; some of those were even fixed-size parcel, others (more expensive) not; in the 80s, workers got assigned (when? well, when enough children) some concrete-hruschebas-sorta-kinda-finished on the rule of n-1 rooms (not dorms, room
1902155;1552516453;diana_coman;s)
1902156;1552516472;diana_coman;that is his great contribution
1902157;1552516497;diana_coman;from the 60s to the 80s it goes from can build house on worker's salary to get to live in the party's shit
1902158;1552516526;diana_coman;not to mention how many were full of mould to the point that you'd get children with asthma and what not
1902159;1552516529;mircea_popescu;there's no argument as to degradation. the objection is that the whole soviet world was undergoing the same process, and it hit the russians worse.
1902160;1552516532;diana_coman;much more living space, right?
1902161;1552516613;mircea_popescu;but yes, ceausescu's imperialist plans were obviously going to fail by the time mid 70s turned around, and were well and thoroughly doomed in 1980.
1902162;1552516614;diana_coman;that thing with hit the russians worse is oddly in opposition to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902023
1902163;1552516614;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:15 asciilifeform: diana_coman: 'didn't get to the part where it gets better' << this is the distinct impression i get . and i suspect on acct of the shoemaker being soft.
1902164;1552516667;mircea_popescu;i dunno that he knows what he's talking about. as a factual matter, 1985 living conditions were worse in moscow than in bucharest (and by far worse in bucharest than say cluj, or timisoara)
1902165;1552516695;diana_coman;I suspect it's Moscow that was a superlative shithole simply
1902166;1552516705;diana_coman;pretty much as you readily grant bucharest is/was one
1902167;1552516711;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying this is the dood's doing to any degree -- there's a very clear gradient, once the crisis hit, it propagated west to east.
1902168;1552516732;mircea_popescu;ie, the yugos had it arguably the best in the 80s, among the whole warsaw pact.
1902169;1552516734;diana_coman;moscow is also waaaay bigger so presumably the shitholness factor is a few degrees of magnitude higher, easily
1902170;1552516752;mircea_popescu;possibly. there's very many variables to control in comparisons.
1902171;1552516855;mircea_popescu;but there's two lines of pedestrian ceausescu-hate that carry no water. one is, "he is responsible for drought". dood is not a 12yo girl dancing naked in the street, has no peculiar relationship to rain. the other is that he was particularly stupid. was not -- way the fuck smarter than period writers, or generally "intellectuals". less aware of the ample thesaurus of borrowed knowledge they used to drop in conversation as a s
1902172;1552516855;mircea_popescu;ort of handshake, but imo this is defensible disinterest. you wouldn't say a kid "learns nothing in school" because he doesn't come home with the list of what grunge bands to listen to for maximum cooldom.
1902173;1552516922;mircea_popescu;the typical "oh, casa poporului is so ugly" item goes right in #2 above : it's a code, exactly like [http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/][any other code]. it's function is to permit the sort of moron who is affraid of the world to recognize who's likely to huddle with him.
1902174;1552516973;diana_coman;I didn't even realise casa poporului was such a reference point in this sense; i.e. ugly well, it's typical era-style, what
1902175;1552516984;diana_coman;and fwiw it has everything inside made-in-romania so there, pride
1902176;1552517006;mircea_popescu;it's not any uglier than 1, police plaza in new york
1902177;1552517012;diana_coman;if anything, casa poporului at least is basically to this day a ...monument if nothing else
1902178;1552517015;mircea_popescu;and i fail to hear stupid cunt-pippidi explain "how ugly it is"
1902179;1552517023;mircea_popescu;or, horrible dictu, how it mars obama as a moron with no culture.
1902180;1552517039;mircea_popescu;notwithstanding ceausescu watched tv for his own interest, at least, which is a step above the nigglet.
1902181;1552517046;*;diana_coman never heard this "how ugly it is" re casa poporului, possibly because she never listened to mungiu-pippidi and the like
1902182;1552517052;mircea_popescu;yes well.
1902183;1552517089;diana_coman;I always rather considered casa poporului among his achievements - at least there is something everyone knows re Bucharest, what do you want now
1902184;1552517099;mircea_popescu;(i also fail to hear these "cultured" fucktards explain how ~exactly the same~ was said of what now makes the glory of austria, that insane dood's palaces)
1902185;1552517118;mircea_popescu;somehow they never fucking heard of anything, it's like talking to bouvard & pecuchet.
1902186;1552517213;mircea_popescu;incidentally alf, ludwig 2 of bavaria is a fine example re this wot. one day decided to ditch his cabinet -- the cabinet decided it'd better ditch him first!!!
1902187;1552517335;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902171 -> fwiw it's hate of communism of which ceausescu is the great product and crowning - admittedly local- glory.
1902188;1552517335;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 22:40 mircea_popescu: but there's two lines of pedestrian ceausescu-hate that carry no water. one is, "he is responsible for drought". dood is not a 12yo girl dancing naked in the street, has no peculiar relationship to rain. the other is that he was particularly stupid. was not -- way the fuck smarter than period writers, or generally "intellectuals". less aware of the ample thesaurus of borrowed knowledge they used to drop in conversation as a s
1902189;1552517371;mircea_popescu;sure, why not.
1902190;1552517404;mircea_popescu;the problem with communism, however, is not that it kept plesu, liiceanu, dinescu, mungiu etc from producing great crystals of pure thought to make the fame of romania throughout the ages.
1902191;1552517436;mircea_popescu;on the contrary -- to them, its most excellent quality is they've something to blame for ~their own~, wholly subjective and entirely cosubstantial nothingness.
1902192;1552517449;diana_coman;re stupid my understanding of the usual charge is that he was non-intelligent, not non-smart; clever and shrewd perhaps; then again, this is my "translation" - I don't really know either way, not as if I knew the guy
1902193;1552517460;mircea_popescu;meanwhile ceausescu's communism DID produce the only olympic gold romania got till those times.
1902194;1552517464;mircea_popescu;and possibly hence.
1902195;1552517492;mircea_popescu;and it is VERY different to take credit from the industrial products that are 12yo gymnasts, than to sit about and go "o look, this excellent tennis player got #1".
1902196;1552517501;mircea_popescu;very different sports. there's a reason communisms produce ballerinas.
1902197;1552517514;diana_coman;but plesu, liiceanu, dinescu, mungiu etc are equally products of communism and I'd much rather have preferred not hearing of them ever
1902198;1552517583;mircea_popescu;i don't think this was avoidable. like that schmuck whose name's forgotten who wanted to be famous so bad, set athens on fire.
1902199;1552517727;diana_coman;not only ballerinas, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K21yj2lEgrA
1902200;1552517791;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901970 << the good bit there is where he asks for some hair paint be invented to order. saw that ?
1902201;1552517791;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:40 diana_coman: with the added bonus that Ibraileanu in 1909 cites from the same piece of Caragiale (Politica si cultura) with the comment that Caragiale was the most acerbic critic of... "liberalism" (the quotations marks are Ibraileanu's) that is further explained as "partidul <<ros>>" aka the red party.
1902202;1552517826;diana_coman;yes! I had a blast and many chuckles re-reading Caragiale
1902203;1552517868;diana_coman;vapsea de par interna :D
1902204;1552517873;mircea_popescu;yeah. and yes, his words for the opposition would have been "partidul collectivist". what c a rosetti & co were pushing is entirely indistinct from today's pantsuitism, in all its particulars.
1902205;1552517894;mircea_popescu;"liberals" in the sense clinton's "democratic"
1902206;1552517901;mircea_popescu;these are just words niggers say.
1902207;1552517969;diana_coman;quite; there was a bit of an anger moment when I realised that in school they never even *mentioned* those writings of Caragiale, let alone study them
1902208;1552517987;mircea_popescu;(he was not alone either, eminescu [http://trilema.com/2016/sensitivity-human-rights-democracy/][of entirely the same persuasion])
1902209;1552518020;mircea_popescu;diana_coman "coincidentally", in the pantsuit sense of [http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128294][coincidence].
1902210;1552518069;diana_coman;aha, ibraileanu in fact mentions both as similar in this sense though Caragiale even more instransigent on the matter, supposedly because simply living closer to the problem as it were, as it started in Muntenia
1902211;1552518210;mircea_popescu;in any case, to briefly revisit : ceausescu's designs with his oil gains, while ultimately crowned by failure, were nevertheless A LOT smarter than period venezuela's commitments. and certainly way the fuck better than qatar building another mall today.
1902212;1552518292;mircea_popescu;it's unclear how much can be expected of one guy, or what exactly set of interactions to judge him by. nevertheless, setting top level policy broadly correctly is probably both there and sufficient. in this sense, ceausescu is better than say the english tard, what's her name, or the german tard, what's her name.
1902213;1552518341;mircea_popescu;may respectiv merkel, mi se sopteste din off.
1902214;1552518412;diana_coman;this eerily reminds me of "but why are you so upset with yourself??? others got even worse marks than you!!!"
1902215;1552518439;diana_coman;if it is to grant him that there are currently many worse than him - readily granted.
1902216;1552518444;mircea_popescu;you still gotta score the set somehiw.
1902217;1552518481;mircea_popescu;not even a matter of upset or not upset, just, "order this set"
1902218;1552518484;diana_coman;sure but scoring based on the bottom is dubious
1902219;1552518520;mircea_popescu;the argument as i perceived it generally revolves around this "omg, he's the devil!!!"
1902220;1552518525;diana_coman;i.e. look, not as bad as it can be; sure, there is always worse.
1902221;1552518530;mircea_popescu;exact nonsense spewing out of the same quarters during say basescu terms.
1902222;1552518556;diana_coman;the argument where?
1902223;1552518561;mircea_popescu;i ran into a lotta these, you know, idle workers who couldn't work because basescu didn't let them.
1902224;1552518571;mircea_popescu;i dunno, in the "public space", whatever.
1902225;1552518574;diana_coman;ahahah, sure
1902226;1552518611;diana_coman;there is plenty of others to blame and then the top-name is at least easy to remember so there, win.
1902227;1552518641;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901981 << misery in the short term and complete oblivion in the long term. there's not gonna be anymore "trade in women" as they expect it to work, for one thing.
1902228;1552518641;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:46 asciilifeform: peasants quite logically dun want to industrialize, it is elementarily misery in immediate term
1902229;1552518659;mircea_popescu;diana_coman sure, why not. for the same money could just blame god tho.
1902230;1552518692;diana_coman;they did! "it's so-and-so-saint day, can't work or I'll get the plague"
1902231;1552518730;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901987 << it was pushed as hard as it needed to be. ro industrialized ~same as ussr did, really.
1902232;1552518730;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:49 asciilifeform: c ( or perhaps this ball belongs with dej ? ) maybe 'soft', or maybe thought could not afford to kill %% of his subjects, i do not presently know why not pushed.
1902233;1552518761;diana_coman;bonus: si din batrani e obicei / in cinstea sfintilor sa bei - / iar legea n-o stirbesc parintii.
1902234;1552518802;mircea_popescu;heh
1902235;1552518821;mircea_popescu;the universal problem, in the end : there's a difference between what you want and what you need.
1902236;1552518863;diana_coman;not to mention when you get what you neither want nor need :P
1902237;1552518921;mircea_popescu;necessarily.
1902238;1552519028;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901993 << right, http://trilema.com/2012/the-imbecilitarians/#selection-191.0-209.295 geniuses at work.
1902239;1552519028;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:55 BingoBoingo: Don't forget the unbutchered labor activists in the Southern Cone who will consider shuttering a Ford factory "a win for the people"
1902240;1552519224;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901994 << this is deeply untrue, though. romania made its own military equipment, which it did not have in the 30s. there's such a thing as truck factory or tractor factory or etc. period romania had ENTIRELY nothing at all, revisit http://trilema.com/2012/o-bucatica-de-istorie-sau-1907-din-primavara-pina-in-toamna-de-ion-luca-caragiale/ as an excellent summary of the situation in the countr
1902241;1552519224;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:56 diana_coman: to my mind that's precisely the thing: it's not (or not only) that "screaming meat" but the fact that at the end of it, it's only a replacement with what is in fact an inferior, not a superior thing
1902242;1552519224;mircea_popescu;y "prior". the whole thing was a bunch of inept by-hand farmers (CENTURIES after the french peasant had domestique-industrialize already! CEEENTURIES!!!!) and a 14% class literally dreaming on top of them, while "hating" the boss that "makes them" do the makework that existed ENTIRELY as a pretext to pay them, in the very "internal paint" hope they might achieve something sometime somehow (all unspecified).
1902243;1552519273;mircea_popescu;that communism was untenable by the time 80s rolled around is a historical fact ; but kingdom romania was actually ~more~ bankrupt, as an intellectual endeavour, than communism ever got.
1902244;1552519341;mircea_popescu;the commies answers to fundamental questions, as insufficient, incorrect, inept, useless or w/e else you might find them, seated in the hallowed confines of the republic, nevertheless blew the fuck out of the water the available alternatives.
1902245;1552519360;mircea_popescu;yes they "were brought by the tanks", but they stayed because they were actually effectual, and actually persuasive.
1902246;1552519660;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902001 << the problematic things here are miniaturization and technologization. there's relatively little need or use for the sort of "factory" as displayed in 1950s italian films. and besides, india can have those.
1902247;1552519660;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:59 asciilifeform: on my admittedly short expedition i saw 5 dead factories , and 1 working -- little thing inside of much larger corpse ; and it made gears for bmw
1902248;1552519700;mircea_popescu;eg, s.nsa is more of a factory, in objective terms, than tractorul brasov ever was or could have been. it's what it is, these days "factory" is complex item.
1902249;1552519803;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902009 << this is VERY much related to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901903 discussion. it's not like #trilema was fulla linus, djb, everyone else, and i out of my sheer insane evil meanness negrated them an' forced them out.
1902250;1552519803;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:05 asciilifeform: 'new man' is what happens when 'old man' dun want to get off his horse, basta, donotwant
1902251;1552519803;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 17:02 mircea_popescu: consider the traditional antisemitism -- a cluster of lumphocytes around a very real problem, yes, but SUBJECTIVE PROBLEM OF THE JEWS. not irritating "the organism" as such in any sense, beyond the very obvious an' deeply human "you folk can't be this fucking stupid!" [http://trilema.com/2013/the-dead-jew-and-the-raped-girl/][thing]
1902252;1552519823;mircea_popescu;the fucking morons ~opted~ for evil, and then went about as if their pretending "they didn't opt" makes it BE THE CASE they did not so opt.
1902253;1552519847;mircea_popescu;new man happens when old man chooses to be so fucking stupid as to not meaningfully exist in any sense.
1902254;1552519864;mircea_popescu;"oh, but we'd exist in our stupid sense we came up with!" right.
1902255;1552519924;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902010 << fucking precisely. watching #trilema from a distance, with imbecile "skepticism" is not a free option. should it fail, there goes computing, and generally speaking this is the one chance this century.
1902256;1552519924;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:06 asciilifeform: so you try an' make a 'new'. and pray that it worx, before 'a bunch of foreigners land on your shores, buy up some local chiefs, chop down your forests, rip the minerals out of your soil, enslave a few generations, and eventually go home, leaving their bastards in charge'
1902257;1552519929;mircea_popescu;next century, maybe has one also. maybe not.
1902258;1552520068;diana_coman;http://trilema.com/2012/o-bucatica-de-istorie-sau-1907-din-primavara-pina-in-toamna-de-ion-luca-caragiale/#selection-283.267-283.654 -> to which communism was the answer; oh boy.
1902259;1552520106;mircea_popescu;it was a better answer than anything bratianu had.
1902260;1552520123;mircea_popescu;(this largely consisted of "let's give oil to shell and with money build carlton bloc hurr durr".)
1902261;1552520164;mircea_popescu;but yes, the history of the "free world" closely approximates the history of a bunch of morons. because guess what -- they ARE a bunch of morons.
1902262;1552520258;diana_coman;changing one set of lies for another set of lies; better lies! granted, everything is just a better lie until finding an even better one.
1902263;1552520258;mircea_popescu;he is ~absolutely correct~, too. the actual fuel, for communism's efficiency and persuasion, was precisely the reservoir he identifies : ". Și cîți aliați devotați n'ar găsii în captivii de cari pomenim mai sus, sătui de a-și călca mereu pe cuget și pe inimă, de a-și jertfi zilnic, pe altarul minciunii și inichității, convingerile lor adînci, dragostea de adevăr și de patrie !." is === http://trilema.com/20
1902264;1552520259;mircea_popescu;13/on-learning-communism/#selection-63.118-63.131
1902265;1552520289;mircea_popescu;that woman, born i'd guess in the 30s, was the daughther.
1902266;1552520324;mircea_popescu;diana_coman newton -> einstein is precisely changing a set of lies for a better set of lies. world dun work as physics says, nor ever did. however -- better lies work better.
1902267;1552520682;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902019 << eh, this was always the case. romania didn't particularly ~want~ to participate in ye various wars. but always this circumstantial "Can't really not to".
1902268;1552520682;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:14 asciilifeform: e.g. ro, lost its sovereignty , and arguably the bill for ~that~ aint even remotely paid yet, nao it hosts nato rockets and became legit target for ru defensive systems
1902269;1552521093;diana_coman;born in the 30s was educated 40s-50s, rather mostenire as it were.
1902270;1552521135;*;asciilifeform in the midst of ffalogical labyrynth but cannot resist to peek & eat thrd
1902271;1552521176;*;diana_coman will go to sleep 
1902272;1552521182;asciilifeform;goodnight diana_coman
1902273;1552521340;mircea_popescu;people recur, is the thing.
1902274;1552521396;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902029 << sure. and also, that you went to universitatea politehnica bucuresti, instead of mit. i believe ushinski is way the fuck better than dr seuss, in terms of primary school textbooks, also. and so following.
1902275;1552521396;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:17 diana_coman: i.e. "state property aka nobody's property" and so on
1902276;1552521428;mircea_popescu;even though economy had ~died, the 70s east cultural clock still synchronized a lot closer to reality than the 70s west cultural clock.
1902277;1552521442;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902158 << ~100% of ameristani dwellings have mold that would make sovok inspector shit in pants
1902278;1552521442;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 22:35 diana_coman: not to mention how many were full of mould to the point that you'd get children with asthma and what not
1902279;1552521466;asciilifeform;( presswood, see , and ~uncleanable 'central air' ducts )
1902280;1552521497;mircea_popescu;in the end, there's two major functions of leadership in human society. one is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880251 (generally called "economy") and the other is, synchronization, as in, selection of schelling points. this is usualyl called culture, but it's a large thing, including tropes and all sorta manner of thing.
1902281;1552521497;a111;Logged on 2018-12-12 18:21 mircea_popescu: aanyway. labour allocation is broken and nobody has any better.
1902282;1552521578;mircea_popescu;as it happens, in warsaw pact function #1 failed ~mid 70s, and function #2 failed [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816502][~mid 80s].
1902283;1552521578;a111;Logged on 2018-05-22 05:18 mircea_popescu: long story short, soviet kids integrated into youth culture faster than soviet state integrated "soviet world" ; the result was the failure of the soviet state.
1902284;1552521601;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902184 << ludvig ? bavaria iirc , not austria
1902285;1552521601;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 22:44 mircea_popescu: (i also fail to hear these "cultured" fucktards explain how ~exactly the same~ was said of what now makes the glory of austria, that insane dood's palaces)
1902286;1552521617;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah.
1902287;1552521617;asciilifeform;oh ha mircea_popescu already got there in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902186
1902288;1552521617;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 22:46 mircea_popescu: incidentally alf, ludwig 2 of bavaria is a fine example re this wot. one day decided to ditch his cabinet -- the cabinet decided it'd better ditch him first!!!
1902289;1552521635;*;asciilifeform goes to eat whole thing rather than LL(1) parsing..
1902290;1552521856;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902033 << it is altogether dubious how "without communism". seems they got the worst parts of it, except for (notably) the name. but otherwise, consider ye recent gladstone discussion.
1902291;1552521856;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:18 asciilifeform: england industrialized 'minus communism' but , i'll observe , with quite similar methods , and similar misery
1902292;1552521860;mircea_popescu;"We mean to value all the land in the kingdom Now, what is going to happen in the future? In future those landlords will have to contribute to the taxation of the country on the basis of the real value - only one halfpenny in the pound!"
1902293;1552521888;mircea_popescu;ie, "land is no longer this thing the noble owns as his thing to own. land is now a sort of community chest, that the state owns, and maybe noble continues as its steward a while"
1902294;1552521894;asciilifeform;gladstone ~century after the 'enclosures' etc, neh
1902295;1552521903;mircea_popescu;this is not communism ? why, because islander fucktards gotta call everything by a "new" name ?
1902296;1552521916;asciilifeform;sure is. but is 100+ y after the mills afaik
1902297;1552521931;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and cough is days after infection, what of it.
1902298;1552521942;mircea_popescu;they ~still got it~, was the point.
1902299;1552521963;asciilifeform;for all i know, 'errybody gets it' at some pt, like errybody dies.
1902300;1552521978;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902031 << this, ftr, is very much true. rights for morons === disaster.
1902301;1552521978;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:17 asciilifeform: ~that~ goes straight to becoming an africa.
1902302;1552521981;asciilifeform;contention was, they industrialized before communitardized
1902303;1552522006;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform only because they communitardized in colonies first.
1902304;1552522032;mircea_popescu;so could briefly pretend like every sheffield weaver's a sorta miniprince, on well hidden coolie labour with serials filed off.
1902305;1552522044;mircea_popescu;considering the cost of the deception, and the ultimately negligible actual results...
1902306;1552522095;asciilifeform;afaik that's the 'standard model' of the brit empire -- drained batteries of india, americas, etc, then ate own arse
1902307;1552522098;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902034 << they were a sought ally at the time, pretty much fucked the caer idea. difference now is they ~asked~ to be in eu.
1902308;1552522098;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:21 asciilifeform: going upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902021 , oddly enuff per my reading ro ~was~ sovereign during post-stalin sovok. i.e. routinely pissed right in the mouth of e.g. hrusch, and got away scot-free
1902309;1552522176;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902039 << this was widely admired, whole "third way" 80s wank. i find the proposition dubious, in the sense that it strictly depends on the yugo ~people~ being a certain kind. just the right mix of crazy and dedicated. worked out terribly in 94 too.
1902310;1552522176;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:22 asciilifeform: ( tito -- imho genius, somehow pulled off 'communized heavy industry, but private biz for food etc' )
1902311;1552522199;asciilifeform;i have nfi what sorta battery tito ran on
1902312;1552522204;asciilifeform;but clearly ran out
1902313;1552522241;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902038 << this is not factually true. compare ceausescu's reaction to czech invasion with http://trilema.com/2009/a-fost-odata-cand-romania-a-avut-dreptate/ when basescu did ~same re ~same, invasion of serbia.
1902314;1552522241;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:22 diana_coman: I meant it lost its options really; and having an uppity peasant "rule" is not going to change that, only make it likely worse and longer
1902315;1552522322;mircea_popescu;exact same case of fucktarded "washington press reps dinner" pantsuit meeting ro head, being laughed at. but in the former case gorby was still answering for it ; whereas in the latter i have yet to see the apologetics for ~the failure~.
1902316;1552522390;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the diff b/w 'then and nao' is that 'the west'(tm)(r) dun have a miami to decamp to. hence 'cream' stews in own juices, and no genuflections/'apologies'
1902317;1552522417;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902047 << that's the kernel's own config process, and the "aborted" makes me think you pressed ctrl-c
1902318;1552522417;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:29 PeterL: trinque: so I am running the cuntoo build script, it seems to have stopped doing anything, the end of the build log http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/whbcf/?raw=true , not sure what to do next here?
1902319;1552522419;asciilifeform;( as how gorby genuflected for katyn shooting , gulag, etc , to earn his miami )
1902320;1552522481;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902044 << amusing episode, http://trilema.com/2010/intiiul-troll/#selection-45.0-45.113
1902321;1552522481;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:27 asciilifeform: as for the old shoemaker, admittedly i never wore a crown, but afaik folx who wear crowns do not have the option of saying 'we lost options'. sorta like the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 thing.
1902322;1552522554;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902246 << ~100% of the manhole covers on my street, have a 'made in india' text. 'leave it to india' worx a++ until india decides that erry fuckwad 'deserves' own country house and sinecure and etc. and soon enuff you have a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902304
1902323;1552522554;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 23:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902001 << the problematic things here are miniaturization and technologization. there's relatively little need or use for the sort of "factory" as displayed in 1950s italian films. and besides, india can have those.
1902324;1552522554;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 00:07 mircea_popescu: so could briefly pretend like every sheffield weaver's a sorta miniprince, on well hidden coolie labour with serials filed off.
1902325;1552522589;mircea_popescu;nah. i could start steel production in a week, if need be.
1902326;1552522606;asciilifeform;lol iirc mao also said
1902327;1552522613;mircea_popescu;india can't start mpex production in a millenium, though. and even simpler things -- notice how much fucking work all sorta things we do take us.
1902328;1552522713;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902058 << well, they'd have to get new land grants.
1902329;1552522713;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:41 asciilifeform: i wonder whether usg even bothers to ask ro 'democratic' apparatus when it feels like moving the 'aegis' batteries from place to place
1902330;1552522714;asciilifeform;that iirc was the ameritards' notion also, 'let the untermenschen make tractors, we'll make nasdaq' neh
1902331;1552522717;asciilifeform;how well it went ?
1902332;1552522729;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and yet we dont make our own shoes.
1902333;1552522744;asciilifeform;asciilifeform is ~this close~ to 'make own shoes'
1902334;1552522799;mircea_popescu;not because of some sort of deviousness though. just sheer decay, morons resplendent.
1902335;1552522847;asciilifeform;rright. but gotta point out, 'let'em make the basics, we'll make mpexes and fermat's theorems' dunwork if taken entirely literally.
1902336;1552522905;asciilifeform;in sane planet, i could walk into a shop and have motherfucking pcb xrayed for fivebux.
1902337;1552522918;asciilifeform;and not (wtf!) have to buy the gear.
1902338;1552522949;asciilifeform;( mircea_popescu , observe, does not have to buy bulldozer. not even in argentina are people fucked enuff in the head to ask MOAR for lease of bulldozer, genset, etc than to BUY )
1902339;1552522960;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1902340;1552522983;asciilifeform;recall : the xray best-quote of 5 firms was : 2700 orcdubloons PER SHOT
1902341;1552522988;asciilifeform;microscopist : 24K.
1902342;1552523002;asciilifeform;24K , ftr, buys ~tabletop~ electron mic.
1902343;1552523008;asciilifeform;with warranty.
1902344;1552523073;asciilifeform;nao, it ~is~ possible that i'ma rube. and somewhere there's a seekrit base of not-retarded people.
1902345;1552523101;asciilifeform;but i aint found it yet.
1902346;1552523199;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902140 << the crowd of very similar 'pippidi' bashing sovok, always makes sure to compare hruscheba to manhattan penthouse, and not to the dirt floor hut 90% of ru lived in pre-sovok
1902347;1552523199;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 22:27 mircea_popescu: or a hruscheba, or w/e the fuck they call it. makes entirely no difference, for the vast majority of the population of romania at the time had never lived in paved dwellings.
1902348;1552523388;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902207 << asciilifeform served 10 yrs of time in ameri-school. 0 mention of e.g. twain.
1902349;1552523388;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 22:59 diana_coman: quite; there was a bit of an anger moment when I realised that in school they never even *mentioned* those writings of Caragiale, let alone study them
1902350;1552523541;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902248 << sadly must point out , that the places where the active components made, dwarf any sovok tractor plant
1902351;1552523541;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 23:28 mircea_popescu: eg, s.nsa is more of a factory, in objective terms, than tractorul brasov ever was or could have been. it's what it is, these days "factory" is complex item.
1902352;1552523557;asciilifeform;not only in floor space, but cost , in any unit one might care to price in
1902353;1552523594;asciilifeform;i dun have a fab in my kitchen, i promise that would say if i did
1902354;1552523697;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902255 << i find it increasingly harder to avoid the thought that computing is going down to bottom of the sea unless and until we fab
1902355;1552523697;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 23:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902010 << fucking precisely. watching #trilema from a distance, with imbecile "skepticism" is not a free option. should it fail, there goes computing, and generally speaking this is the one chance this century.
1902356;1552523731;mircea_popescu;yeah well.
1902357;1552523733;asciilifeform;( does mircea_popescu find idea of 20yrs of chasing down x86 glitches appealing perspective ? )
1902358;1552523795;mircea_popescu;there's a ready stream of distractions available to distract thre willing from the much plainer and closer to nose fact that we'll go to bottom of the sea if we don't, eg, manage to get pizarro going properly. etc.
1902359;1552523807;asciilifeform;no shortage of these
1902360;1552523846;asciilifeform;luckily we have mircea_popescu to give clue re in what order to bucket water from the flooded compartments
1902361;1552523865;mircea_popescu;but yes, i'm sure eventually we'll fab.
1902362;1552523878;mircea_popescu;whether in city or behind autofiring turret line, still open q.
1902363;1552523938;asciilifeform;( consider, sovok faced much simpler problem, when ~it~ resorted to fab -- that amerireich ~wouldn't sell'em~ the goodstuff. today, can't even ~buy~ the goodstuff if yer sultan of brunei )
1902364;1552523955;asciilifeform;it aint there, to be bought.
1902365;1552524001;mircea_popescu;idiots invaded wrong czech.
1902366;1552524049;asciilifeform;where's 'right czech'
1902367;1552524123;mircea_popescu;where the good stuff is.
1902368;1552524152;asciilifeform;the punchline is that in 1968 sovok was ~slightly ahead~ in ic.
1902369;1552524175;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877419 << see also.
1902370;1552524175;a111;Logged on 2018-12-01 20:39 asciilifeform: ( who even into '70s persisted in a belief that there's 'amazing su tech' worth fishing out of e.g. sunken su sub , with howard hughes' mega-boat )
1902371;1552524221;asciilifeform;they raised the boat btw , and found the ics. i have some of them ( well, not them, but same type ) here. pretty interesting item, moar like ultra-miniaturized smt pcb than what modern folx think of as 'ic'
1902372;1552524373;asciilifeform;meanwhile in wikitardism : https://archive.is/spATf << behold , the diagrams all labeled in ru
1902373;1552524393;asciilifeform;i wonder from where stole
1902374;1552524394;BingoBoingo; <asciilifeform> ( mircea_popescu , observe, does not have to buy bulldozer. not even in argentina are people fucked enuff in the head to ask MOAR for lease of bulldozer, genset, etc than to BUY ) << And the caterpillar store here neither sells nor rents earthmoving equipment, instead sells girls outdoor fashions
1902375;1552527628;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/03/14/more-future-sight-in-the-southern-cone/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- More Future Sight In The Southern Cone
1902376;1552528256;asciilifeform;in other noose,
1902377;1552528259;asciilifeform;!A help
1902378;1552528259;mircea_popescu;in other news, these diana_coman compilation notes are just sad. wtf is wrong with people, "portable" and "support" seem to only support fucking nonsense, and quite selectively at that.
1902379;1552528263;asciilifeform;err,
1902380;1552528265;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1902381;1552528265;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1902382;1552528267;asciilifeform;!A help
1902383;1552528268;pehbot;asciilifeform: I am PehBot. My Width is currently fixed to 256, Height to 32, Tape to 300, Life to 150.
1902384;1552528281;asciilifeform;!A .5:[Foo].1-",_
1902385;1552528282;pehbot;asciilifeform: FooFooFooFooFoo
1902386;1552528295;asciilifeform;!A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_
1902387;1552528295;pehbot;asciilifeform: FooBarBarBarFooBarBarBarFooBarBarBarFoo
1902388;1552528357;asciilifeform;!A :[Ho];
1902389;1552528357;pehbot;asciilifeform: HoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHoHo
1902390;1552528370;asciilifeform;^ exercise for reader.
1902391;1552528527;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1902392;1552528546;mircea_popescu;diana_coman explain http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901356 to me. so there's http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/15/eucrypt-chapter-10-oaep-with-keccak-a-la-tmsr/#selection-37.1-37.47 ; now why isn't it usable for v ? i'm missing something here.
1902393;1552528546;a111;Logged on 2019-03-11 10:01 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, in short, the keccak spec in its current form really since it considers input at bit-level and then goes on to mess about with some assumptions at bit-level and some at octet-level and making a lot of confusion without any good reason e.g. http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/08/eucrypt-chapter-9-byte-order-and-bit-disorder-in-keccak/#selection-55.383-63.563 ; one needs to disentangle that and put it in octet-only shape, octet stre
1902394;1552531417;mod6;Cool: 02:43 -!- Welcome to the TMSR Internet Relay Chat Network mod6
1902395;1552531516;mod6;Got a ratbox setup, gonna need to do some testing
1902396;1552531663;mod6;irc.mod6.net / #trilema if you wanna join up and test
1902397;1552531681;mod6;or 108.61.199.188
1902398;1552533209;trinque;neato, I'm there
1902399;1552533426;mod6;forwarn: just noticed that the nick maxlen is 9.  I'll have to recompile, probably tomorrow.
1902400;1552533429;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: that yang link is hilarious : wtf does 1000 orcdubloons even buy
1902401;1552533460;trinque;ample weed and cheezburg, what
1902402;1552533474;asciilifeform;mod6: congrats, neato, i'ma try it when i wake
1902403;1552533502;asciilifeform;trinque: a month or 2 of it, neh, then wat
1902404;1552533583;asciilifeform;apparently these folx want to try out ye olde sovok 'voucher' experience on own skin
1902405;1552533616;asciilifeform;( helps that they're entirely innocent of reading, sovok may as well have happened on mars as they're concerned , i suspect )
1902406;1552533679;trinque;afaik the derp's talking about UBI, not a one-shot payment
1902407;1552533683;asciilifeform;'hey kid? yer rent was 700? guesswat, ~this~ month you owe 1700'
1902408;1552533693;mod6;asciilifeform: cool, no rush or anything.  it's gonna be some effort to get it all shined up and ready.
1902409;1552533699;asciilifeform;trinque: ok modify then, 'from nao on 1700'
1902410;1552533734;trinque;sure, who's thinking.
1902411;1552533765;asciilifeform;this kinda thing imho crosses some line even for tards
1902412;1552533781;asciilifeform;it's fingers-in-mains-socket level of stupid
1902413;1552534631;BingoBoingo;What rent? They live in multgenerational households, Latin style
1902414;1552534681;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: so mother gets a 'yer rent was... you have 2 reddit sons ? guess what, nao x + 2000'
1902415;1552534685;asciilifeform;big fat diff
1902416;1552534701;BingoBoingo;Nah, mom or grandma has mortgage
1902417;1552534717;asciilifeform;( and not necessarily immediately or as compactly as in this didactic example, but sure enuff, sheep will be shorn )
1902418;1552534724;trinque;nobody is thinking about any of this, and of course.
1902419;1552534728;BingoBoingo;Anyways 1000 dollars in 2021 may as well be 1000 pesos in 2019
1902420;1552534762;BingoBoingo;Sure they will all find a way to get captured
1902421;1552534844;asciilifeform;in the linked piece, pic of some (presumably nao old) d00d when young, and 'his tuition was 400'. takes all of 5sec to think out why his 400 and herr redditard's is 40000
1902422;1552534884;asciilifeform;this aint exactly fermat-grade problem
1902423;1552534977;BingoBoingo;Hey, I can still get 5kg of "picada de novillo" for just under 1000 pesos
1902424;1552535324;BingoBoingo;I dunno what the US substitute costs in USD atm, but...
1902425;1552536997;mircea_popescu;nice mod6
1902426;1552543089;jurov;!!v B391E386C09327CA31AB9ECB3124A3A901EE12C7287426E54452EBBEB661EE65
1902427;1552543100;deedbot;jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 9
1902428;1552548576;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902392 -> it is usable and it is used; that doesn't make it 100% byte-level as it'd be ideal; if it's still not clear what part/why, I'll have to load it back in head to give more detailed answer.
1902429;1552548576;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 01:55 mircea_popescu: diana_coman explain http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901356 to me. so there's http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/15/eucrypt-chapter-10-oaep-with-keccak-a-la-tmsr/#selection-37.1-37.47 ; now why isn't it usable for v ? i'm missing something here.
1902430;1552548863;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902276 -> kind of weird in the light of the very real and directly experienced http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-ideal-social-systems-reprint/
1902431;1552548863;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 23:57 mircea_popescu: even though economy had ~died, the 70s east cultural clock still synchronized a lot closer to reality than the 70s west cultural clock.
1902432;1552549172;diana_coman;but anyway, to wind up the thread, the idea seems to be that "yes, it inevitably sucked and moreover it failed on both directions http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902282 but nevertheless it was the best thing available at the time; and ftr having studied at polytechnica university may perhaps (no idea) be better than mit at that time (not now, then, hence no idea) but it wasn't much study, no.
1902433;1552549172;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 23:59 mircea_popescu: as it happens, in warsaw pact function #1 failed ~mid 70s, and function #2 failed [http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816502][~mid 80s].
1902434;1552549206;diana_coman;it's still back to the measuring by the bottom part as far as I can see.
1902435;1552555714;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901715 <-- this spawned a mega-thread that I'm still digesting, ftr. will make for great re-read over the weekend, and re-re-read later on
1902436;1552555714;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 13:19 asciilifeform: spyked: seems like the joke is on the folx who shot the shoemaker , who ~maybe~-sent police if he thought you had particular kind of bits on paper , and then spread legs for nato reich, who send police if they think you have ~another~ kind of bits, on yer hdd..
1902437;1552555899;spyked;re the above, nato reich did not advertise that part in their brochures. I suppose the ones who previously waited "sa vina americanii" were very happy in 1990 because "can nao eat hot dog and hamburgers" (mcd wasn't even the first of its kind in ro)
1902438;1552555960;diana_coman;further digesting the conclusion such as it is, it seems to me that the issue might be that it kept pretending it was working way beyond the point were it had clearly and obviously failed; and given the timings, this does quite rest entirely with ceausescu as far as I can tell - he couldn't let fail faster what had failed already, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902038
1902439;1552555960;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 21:22 diana_coman: I meant it lost its options really; and having an uppity peasant "rule" is not going to change that, only make it likely worse and longer
1902440;1552556017;diana_coman;spyked, those who waited sa vina americanii were tired of waiting and died, in many cases rather precisely and explicitly so "tired of all this shit, had enough."
1902441;1552556141;diana_coman;re 1990 I recall euphoria followed by a very cool shower on seeing same old faces (fsn) ; and then the 90s were the time of a big wave of running for canada iirc
1902442;1552556198;diana_coman;presumably there again, there was one chance and it was rejected because ratiu hadn't eaten salam cu soia; but that's what if, no idea if again iliescu was presumably "the best available"
1902443;1552556272;spyked;from discussions with ppl who were in their 20s-30s at the time, my understanding is that most folks had no idea what to expect from "new regime". they were being fed with "transition phase" and other similar buzzwords
1902444;1552556303;diana_coman;eh, the older ones saw it clearly though because they had more experience with "schimbarea domnilor bucuria nebunilor"
1902445;1552556321;diana_coman;sure, folks had no idea but that's the given at any time really
1902446;1552556380;diana_coman;and at any rate, the new regime was the old regime since precisely known people
1902447;1552556435;diana_coman;in this sense ceausescu was made the scapegoat, yes; i.e. "shooting him sorted out all the troubles, nao everything will be great"
1902448;1552556691;*;diana_coman will go now back to keccak
1902449;1552557360;spyked;diana_coman, I suspect this was mostly a case of "revision is well-received, but don't change anything"; which is why iliescu/fsn had so much support and average derp saw the taranisti as "way too mean" (no idea precisely what "mean" means, that's what I've been told)
1902450;1552557386;spyked;anyway, re "ro mcd" http://archive.is/ZaFuF <-- lulz, for entomologists
1902451;1552557498;spyked;specifically re "the wrong kind of bits on your hdd", I'm sure e.g. microshit had no problem with it, piracy is principally how windows got spread in eastern europe
1902452;1552557522;*;spyked also bbl
1902453;1552572565;mircea_popescu;so in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901233 : we finally got to the bottom of the matter, after no little amount of reading and headscratching (esp on my part). the problem isn't one of calling convention (as i had erroneously imagined originally, mostly on the basis of "keccak doesn't take / wants" verbiage).
1902454;1552572565;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 19:56 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901200 << that is not at all the problem. i can read the file just fine, but as i do i feed chunks of it to keccak. keccak doesn't take char buffers, it wants "bitstream" i.e. arrays of bits, which means whatever char
1902455;1552572565;mircea_popescu;the problem is this : as keccak is ineptly specced (by Bertoni & all), it uses amixedly both lsb and msb conventions, meaning that a bitstream of uneven octetness like "10110" can ~in principle~ end up padded into either the harmless "00010110" or the potentially harmful "10110000".
1902456;1552572566;mircea_popescu;making sure this latter case never happens requires a little bit of needlework. the original implementations tried to keep close to the original spec, for basically naive and unexamined http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-02#1883944 reasons. as it turns out, this was the wrong cut.
1902457;1552572566;a111;Logged on 2019-01-02 18:57 mircea_popescu: what's hilarious is the ever-present http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/#selection-154.0-157.103 whereby they'll imaginarily seat themselves in my seat and start spewing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 slash assorted nonsense about "homebrew crypto" lalala.
1902458;1552572569;mircea_popescu;as it's unclear from the logs whether phf actually has done this and not published it yet or not done it at all, diana_coman will release a third keccak, that should resolve both the above problem and the "everything is 8x because NIST idiots" thing blowing up vdiff's stack, hopefully later this week.
1902459;1552572573;mircea_popescu;~the end~
1902460;1552572849;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902430 << well, "weird". they're both ideal social systems, they both have the same problems. they have it in different degrees, or rather, differently distributed. warsaw pact socialism was an ideal system closest to realism at the top and most idealized at the bottom. roosveltian socialism is an ideal system closest to realism at the bottom, and most idealized at the top. as i'm at the top
1902461;1552572849;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 07:34 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902276 -> kind of weird in the light of the very real and directly experienced http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-ideal-social-systems-reprint/
1902462;1552572849;mircea_popescu;, i very much prefer the former ; asciilifeform is expressing very similar preference for very similar reasons.
1902463;1552572874;mircea_popescu;the proofs for this are many and plurious, but consider the simple fact that there's no censorship or repression of ideas in roosevelt's socialism.
1902464;1552572911;mircea_popescu;why not ? ~obviously~ because thinking people ~can not even form useful ideas~ there. much like there's no jaywalking fines for the qadriplegic, and no blinding lights for they already blind.
1902465;1552572946;mircea_popescu;i much prefer the tyrant who's afraid of thinking people to the tyrant who isn't, for the exactly obvious fucking reason.
1902466;1552573183;diana_coman;thing is the "afraid of thinking people" directly translates into "thinking people get killed for *being thinking people*" and if you and asciilifeform say that that's swell and preferable to the alternative then ok; the way I see it, it's a recipe for disaster; which gets round back precisely to the "talking to the pigs" since there isn't anyone left
1902467;1552573331;diana_coman;ftr I can easily get behind the observation that the difference of opinion here might simply stem from the fact that I wasn't at a the top in communism - no, I wasn't; and I wouldn't have made it to any top either precisely because of too much thinking.
1902468;1552573415;diana_coman;or the wrong sort of thinking (tm)
1902469;1552573668;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: upstack to the keccak -- 8x moar compact keccak is Right Thing, but still won't keep you from demolishing the stack if yer hashing GBs
1902470;1552573733;asciilifeform;( the pill is in the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901193 thrd. but there's a gnat bug in the way )
1902471;1552573733;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 17:52 asciilifeform: so it will have to have the mmap routine.
1902472;1552573881;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the reich where 'killed for being thinking people' is ~right here~. simply they dun do it with gulag, they do it much cheaper, by driving'em to drink
1902473;1552573930;diana_coman;asciilifeform, eh, cheaper in the sense that in communism you don't even have what to drink or what; because otherwise plenty of that in there too
1902474;1552573938;asciilifeform;( i dunno if al schwartz drank, but may as well )
1902475;1552573965;diana_coman;at any rate, I'm not saying that I find rooseveltian communism any better really, no
1902476;1552573971;diana_coman;I find both of them equally horrid
1902477;1552573993;asciilifeform;diana_coman: fwiw i see 0 diff b/w sovok 'top' and goldmansachs top , in re 'how much think' or any other interesting aspect
1902478;1552574009;asciilifeform;exactly same people.
1902479;1552574060;asciilifeform;ameri-sovok gives to the plebes slightly better panem et circenses , 'while supplies last'
1902480;1552574164;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902451 << gates himself was quite explicit re this point : 'hooke'm 1st, then make'em pay'
1902481;1552574164;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 09:58 spyked: specifically re "the wrong kind of bits on your hdd", I'm sure e.g. microshit had no problem with it, piracy is principally how windows got spread in eastern europe
1902482;1552574230;*;asciilifeform brb,tea
1902483;1552575216;mircea_popescu;diana_coman well, it IS preferable to the alternative. certainly not swell, no, but who the hell can carry a conversation on communism in terms of swellness.
1902484;1552575312;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i can live with telling people "raise your stack limit for your file is large" ; i have a lot more trouble sleeping at night if i tell people "raise your stack limit for some idiots made a broken spec we did not fix."
1902485;1552575543;mircea_popescu;diana_coman hey, i was fortunate! two generations working hard at the "think just enough --- NOT MORE!!!" so as to make it into "red bourgeoisie" (to use the polish term), which yeah i'd have totally fucked up when it came to be my turn except the regime fell before me like one of those magic cases of lion dieing of apoplexy just as five year old boy lifts his wooden sword at it. so now i can be distasted at their impossible
1902486;1552575543;mircea_popescu;mental contortions, "what sort of people are these!!!" and so on.
1902487;1552575625;diana_coman;I can see that.
1902488;1552575770;mircea_popescu;it's a complex problem, though. the naive : "the difference between idiots and thinkers is that thinkers may opt to idiocy, but idiots may not opt to thinking", generally offered in disputes around "copyright" and other packaging of the grander theme of "ownership of ideal objects", nevertheless runs into the problem that thinkers DO NOT LIKE opting for idiocy.
1902489;1552575846;mircea_popescu;(though adlai is commonly used here as the poster child for a perhaps spreading novel disease, where they manage to apparently convince themselves they do like, somehow.)
1902490;1552576148;mircea_popescu;amusingly enough, this thing runs right into the institution of the harem (guess what alfie -- institution that DIDNT have all individuals leave!) because master's opting for idiocy is ~required~ on occasion. you can very much fail through being too reliably thinking, counterintuitively enough. or perhaps [http://trilema.com/2011/arta-pedepsirii/][not so counterintuitively].
1902491;1552576364;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902434 << the fundamental problem with measuring anything is that either you pick good measurements (in which case -- you want good samples, in which case -- bottom always wins) or else you pick good results (in which case, discussion can continue endlessly as to ~what it is they mean~. there's no clear meaning to results, howsoever good they may be, absent a good measurement).
1902492;1552576364;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 07:40 diana_coman: it's still back to the measuring by the bottom part as far as I can see.
1902493;1552576420;mircea_popescu;which pretty much summarizes 50  years' worth of "scholarship" on the topic of comparative theory of socialism, carried both in warsaw and roosevelt lands like it was going out of style.
1902494;1552576429;mircea_popescu;correctly, too -- meanwhile it actually went out of style.
1902495;1552576595;mircea_popescu;but, to add the one important bit : discussing communism is imo a red herring, and ESPECIALLY so if part of the other-socialism's sepia ink, "oh, how bad warsaw pact socialism was [http://trilema.com/2016/tight-science-loose-pseudoscience-and-a-warm-pot-to-piss-in-intellectually-speaking/#selection-73.0-77.39][little girl], aren't you glad you live in best possible socialism that's not like that at all [in any parts you're li
1902496;1552576595;mircea_popescu;able to notice, or once noticed be able to communicate]"
1902497;1552576671;mircea_popescu;might as well discuss the ill effects of coconut flavoured frozen yogurt upon one's metabolism, and how much weight we're losing by eating naught but vanilla flavoured frozen yogurt (made at the same plant by the same company out of exactly the same ingredients -- all the way to the flavouring, it's still processed wood shavings.)
1902498;1552576952;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902438 << just like the other idiots. consider : if usg dissolved itself in 2001 instead of pretending to a "war" of imagination, people would have ~regretted~ it. but as it stubbornly carried on for another 20 years, it's just as heavily hated at the top as conceivable, and in another decade they'll be shot in the street retributively, for having been part of it at all.
1902499;1552576952;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 09:32 diana_coman: further digesting the conclusion such as it is, it seems to me that the issue might be that it kept pretending it was working way beyond the point were it had clearly and obviously failed; and given the timings, this does quite rest entirely with ceausescu as far as I can tell - he couldn't let fail faster what had failed already, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902038
1902500;1552576996;mircea_popescu;much like had ro communism responded to czech invasion by free elections, ceausescu would be the #1 romanian saint, with more churches dedicated than mary & joseph combined. and much like had the byzantines and much like etcetera.
1902501;1552577025;mircea_popescu;much like every single hostile divorce, too. people just don't know when to quit, is the overwhelming property of people.
1902502;1552577072;mircea_popescu;what is so wrong with saying "these people hate us, because we suck, how about we try something else instead of sucking even harder ???"
1902503;1552577109;mircea_popescu;but no, oh nonononono, gotta http://trilema.com/2012/in-general-evreii-trec-drept-oameni-destepti/ as hardcore as possible!
1902504;1552577222;diana_coman;I suspect it's simply because most people don't actually have a "something else" ; hence shooting is at the end correct too since it's the only real quite.
1902505;1552577224;diana_coman;quit.
1902506;1552577227;mircea_popescu;but yes, ceausescu coming up on live tv and explaining that "look, you dweebs : we tried to imperialism so and so, this is what we did and why we did it, this is what happened, now we're fucked. what do you wanna do now ? figure it the fuck out." would have worked well.
1902507;1552577235;mircea_popescu;he ~even had the right idea~, held fuycking referendum!
1902508;1552577249;diana_coman;exactly; had he done that, great.
1902509;1552577253;mircea_popescu;but see how hard it is to get the words right ? he held referendum over "paying debt", and "everyone voted. twice."
1902510;1552577314;mircea_popescu;it was there though, both the conscience of the problem and the awarness of the right solution. just didn't manage to burble clean all the way through.
1902511;1552577387;diana_coman;maybe.
1902512;1552577405;mircea_popescu;part and parcel of the problem is that ~the very basis and fundament~ of a "[http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/][representative system]" is that THERE IS NO ONE THERE TO TALK TO. all the fucktarded jwzs long opted out, WHO you gonna explain what to and HOW ? in what terms ? in what words ?
1902513;1552577423;diana_coman;"talking to the pigs" ; yes?
1902514;1552577427;mircea_popescu;how do you break through the howl of idiocy ? i scream at the girls, and put them on their knees and whip them, and it works, kinda.
1902515;1552577433;mircea_popescu;what's he gonna do, kneel a country ?
1902516;1552577447;mircea_popescu;diana_coman quite. "viermi neadormiti", da' si nevorbitori.
1902517;1552577467;diana_coman;well, if afraid of thinking people and then people got to think "just enough" then nowhere to turn when needing to talk to someone, inevitably
1902518;1552577476;mircea_popescu;poor woman, bereft of letters. i always read it in THOSE terms, "if you can't think and can't use language, AT LEAST FUCKING SLEEP!!!"
1902519;1552577540;mircea_popescu;diana_coman yet if you ask them, they were afraid not of thinking people in general -- but of the exact thing we [or whatever, i guess in limine just i] are affraid also : http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-01#780595
1902520;1552577540;a111;Logged on 2014-08-01 03:17 mircea_popescu: then various twerps derp about "upholding contracts" in mises.org, and when i call them too smart by half they nervously BUT ANONYMOUSLY address it
1902521;1552577573;mircea_popescu;too smart by half, aka http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863577
1902522;1552577573;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 18:57 mircea_popescu: which i stand behind, ftr ; and it is also what informs the "if they had any sense -- they'd be here" stance. the fact that rando can't cut through fetlife to find the meat / can't cut through internet to find trilema / can't cut through femstate to find bitcoin / can't cut through pantsuitism to find republic etc specifically means that rando is dull, ie, not smart.
1902523;1552577600;mircea_popescu;in ceausescu's own world, "too dumb to cut through imperialist-bourgeois nonsense to find marx & engels ---> dull"
1902524;1552577692;mircea_popescu;what can you do ? in any possible systematic representation of the world you will have some criteria for "broken representations". this isn't avoidable, and "so just don't systematically, then" is no kind of answer.
1902525;1552577809;mircea_popescu;yes, obviously it pays to be the top node, ie, to integrate everyone else's systems. hence all the "empire loses because we integrate it, can't even represent us" etc. nevertheless... this is fine and dandy until it isn't. and yes it'd be great if one had the fucking sense to NOTICE, but notice how eg cat-v.org morons FAILED to notice it's time to quit derping and start worshipping.
1902526;1552577903;mircea_popescu;which yes, is the deep point of http://trilema.com/2017/in-scams-today-disk-less-terminal-sa-dba-laesquinadelamazmorra/#footnote_3_72501 ; and the reason that keeps getting linked -- that YES the only correct response to integration is moving over, and there's a time to do it well and then it'll just be more and more painful once that window closes. but NOTICING...
1902527;1552577909;mircea_popescu;noticing's fucking hard, empirically.
1902528;1552577989;mircea_popescu;meanwhile every organized system, no matter how organized as long as it provides for the economic & cultural #1 and #2 functions discussed, is going to be afraid of marauding idiocy. cuz that's what "barbarian" means, even.
1902529;1552578077;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, consider hrusch's brief 'thaw' where for short time 'anyffin goes' and then suddenly 'stfu'
1902530;1552578090;asciilifeform;it was quite similar thing. he was not prepared for what came out of the woodwork.
1902531;1552578093;mircea_popescu;i couldn't argue well that it ~wasn't~ the same attempt.
1902532;1552578184;mircea_popescu;anyway, kinda why the insistence on "republic is political -- you can't just do tech thing" etc. and why dual court-and-manor function of lord. and so on.
1902533;1552578200;mircea_popescu;IF you dare separate these two, just as soon as something happens you're up sheet crick.
1902534;1552578222;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902463 << limonov had entire b00k on subj, with slightly different twist ( tldr : the 'free world' built 'disciplinary sanitarium' (his term) where ideas-dun-matter-even-if-you-somehow-come-across-one cuz they all get http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ )
1902535;1552578222;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 14:14 mircea_popescu: the proofs for this are many and plurious, but consider the simple fact that there's no censorship or repression of ideas in roosevelt's socialism.
1902536;1552578259;mircea_popescu;i never read it, but the summary makes sense.
1902537;1552578309;*;asciilifeform looks, as does erry coupla yrs, 'does exist in translation?' -- finds, unsurprisingly, does not. at least not on the searchable net.
1902538;1552578345;asciilifeform;mostly pops up as mention in anglotard derphistories of 'ru fascisms'
1902539;1552578353;*;mircea_popescu shall have to go to town, on hour+ delayed trip, in preference of telling driver to turn off engine already. so catch you all later as bit!
1902540;1552578570;asciilifeform;( it's where e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-15#719530 , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-21#573044 , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-21#573144 , elsewhere )
1902541;1552578570;a111;Logged on 2014-06-15 02:28 asciilifeform: 'the Western blok... preferred to view the Eastern European nations as victims of Soviet aggression, ignoring the simple and manly fact (that would have been instantly understood by a Roman) that Soviet legions, without anyone's help, took possession of Eastern Europe via force of arms, answering aggression with aggression. And the Roman would an absurdity - he could not comprehend, in the name of what so-called
1902542;1552578570;a111;Logged on 2014-03-21 17:31 asciilifeform: 'Frightened of its own cannibalism during the First, and, moreover, the Second world wars. 'civilized' mankind dashed from the 'hard' to the 'soft' mode of violence. (The deciding factors: 1. the restraining influence of atomic weapons and 2. the advent of new technologies of production, which made possible an overfeeding of the masses.) If the essence of 'hard' violence consists in the physical suppression of
1902543;1552578570;a111;Logged on 2014-03-21 17:44 asciilifeform: a videoclip of a fairy tale coming true... ...they [americans] also wish to drive around in jeeps, accompanied by squadrons of hotties in berets with kalashnikovs - but are impotent from birth. Envy, taken with an understanding of one's own powerless... easily transforms into hatred. The leaders of the sanitarium are easier for the 'patient' to understand, closer. He sees their permissible pecadillos, and is pl
1902544;1552578583;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: enjoy trip
1902545;1552578970;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902490 << this is the standard 'game-theoretical strength requires a working rng' neh.
1902546;1552578970;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 15:09 mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, this thing runs right into the institution of the harem (guess what alfie -- institution that DIDNT have all individuals leave!) because master's opting for idiocy is ~required~ on occasion. you can very much fail through being too reliably thinking, counterintuitively enough. or perhaps [http://trilema.com/2011/arta-pedepsirii/][not so counterintuitively].
1902547;1552579005;asciilifeform;!#s simulated annealing
1902548;1552579005;a111;13 results for "simulated annealing", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=simulated%20annealing
1902549;1552579008;asciilifeform;^ see also.
1902550;1552579422;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902437 << in 1941 su there was a mass of very similar morons who expected to 'drink bavarian' , chix lined up for barber shops to get fashionable hair to show to germans, etc. imho people who actually expect that getting conquered results in mass handout of candy and beer are tards. history offers no example of this kinda thing, and plenty -- of the obv. opposite, the 1 where no candy but instead ht
1902551;1552579422;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 09:31 spyked: re the above, nato reich did not advertise that part in their brochures. I suppose the ones who previously waited "sa vina americanii" were very happy in 1990 because "can nao eat hot dog and hamburgers" (mcd wasn't even the first of its kind in ro)
1902552;1552579422;asciilifeform;tp://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902010
1902553;1552579482;asciilifeform;incidentally re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901981 , another good example -- south kr. industrialized entirely 'not communistically' but via same exact method.
1902554;1552579482;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 20:46 asciilifeform: peasants quite logically dun want to industrialize, it is elementarily misery in immediate term
1902555;1552579523;asciilifeform;to this day typical d00d working for e.g. 'samsung' lives approx. like factory worker under ceausescu ( and i suspect -- even moar threadbare )
1902556;1552579537;asciilifeform;and somehow despite definitely-not-communists
1902557;1552579581;asciilifeform;( afaik to this day, mentioning communists in anyffin but the same light as a christian mentions satan, in south kr , is good for coupla yrs in the clink )
1902558;1552579645;asciilifeform;somehow, somehow! south kr did not turn into a mcd paraside of fast cars an' suburban picket fence, despite spreading legs for usg in '50s
1902559;1552581175;asciilifeform;*paradise
1902560;1552591290;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902515 << w. jaruzelski tried...
1902561;1552591290;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 15:30 mircea_popescu: what's he gonna do, kneel a country ?
1902562;1552591399;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902498 << usg 'war of imagination' started looong before 2001. arguably in 1918 'prohibition'.
1902563;1552591399;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 15:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902438 << just like the other idiots. consider : if usg dissolved itself in 2001 instead of pretending to a "war" of imagination, people would have ~regretted~ it. but as it stubbornly carried on for another 20 years, it's just as heavily hated at the top as conceivable, and in another decade they'll be shot in the street retributively, for having been part of it at all.
1902564;1552591426;asciilifeform;and never skipped a beat since.
1902565;1552592015;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/remote-code-execution-vulnerability-hits-automattics-org-wordpress-fork/ << Qntra -- Remote Code Execution Vulnerability Hits Automattic's .Org WordPress Fork
1902566;1552592057;asciilifeform;Run Moar Modern Softs(tm)(r)
1902567;1552592245;BingoBoingo;Check less things!!!
1902568;1552597057;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/clean-getaway/ << Bimbo.Club -- Clean Getaway.
1902569;1552602658;mircea_popescu;1918s us hadnt yet failed. in fact, hadn't yet even proven itself.
1902570;1552602672;mircea_popescu;was more of a "o yeah ? that;s quaint. keks" thing
1902571;1552602732;mircea_popescu;the hole people continue to give mp-wp a bad name i see.
1902572;1552604190;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902442 << it does not seem to me ion ratiu & co (coposu, a buncha other fossils) had any fucking clue as to anything whatsoever. in a cool evaluation, actually worse than the "descurcati". ironically enough, the objection as voiced is A LOT more substantial than the same group of dorks aforementioned, pompously pretending themselves "the intellectual elite" and whatnot, wanted to give credit
1902573;1552604190;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 09:36 diana_coman: presumably there again, there was one chance and it was rejected because ratiu hadn't eaten salam cu soia; but that's what if, no idea if again iliescu was presumably "the best available"
1902574;1552604191;mircea_popescu; for.
1902575;1552604221;mircea_popescu;ie, there's more substance in the "n-ati mincat salam cu soia" rejection than in the "oh, i wear a bowtie and we're camping in piata universitatii" offer.
1902576;1552604294;mircea_popescu;this is amply illustrated in the recent derpage re m i quintus. because ~he died very old~ everyone was falling over themselves to praise. but the dood was a more shameful stain on pnl than eg viorel catarama.
1902577;1552604308;mircea_popescu;if he lives to be 90, crin antonescu will have recreated quintus almost identically.
1902578;1552604589;mod6;I'm going to be rebuilding the new irc server tonight to include NICKLENs of 24 chars (fleabag has a max of 16, trinque also checked, an no current regiesterd nick in deedbot is >24), TOPICLEN of 390 chars (for uberlong topics/urls etc), and USERREGLENs of also 24.
1902579;1552604613;mod6;Going to also be adding in nickserv/chanserv, some other services.  Will announce when it's back up for testing.  Cheers.
1902580;1552604840;mircea_popescu;(dood is this obscure ro embassy in uk clerk, who stayed behind in the 40s and married some local woman, worked as a bank clerk for 30 years while contributing weekly pieces to whatever anti-ro-govt efforts the brits were lukewarmly pursuing at the time. he has exactly all the qualifications to run the country as that guaido derp, or poroshenko or [http://trilema.com/2015/views-from-a-shithole-or-periplus-through-stupidity/][
1902581;1552604841;mircea_popescu;whatever]. "looks kinda like obama, should be good".
1902582;1552605041;mircea_popescu;but whatever, i guess cotidianul was ok, up until about 2000 or so.
1902583;1552605109;mircea_popescu;anyway -- iliescu wasn't even particularly good, according to anyone involved. he was however the only one who wasn't shockingly fucked in the head. but i mean, SHOCKINGLY.
1902584;1552605179;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902443 << actually, it was quite fucking obvious : 1. the country has a large industrial base ; 2. that is only useful to turn a dollar's worth of energy into about 20 cents worth of vandable product ; 3. while at the time supporting a population that was 4. shockingly unskilled labour.
1902585;1552605179;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 09:37 spyked: from discussions with ppl who were in their 20s-30s at the time, my understanding is that most folks had no idea what to expect from "new regime". they were being fed with "transition phase" and other similar buzzwords
1902586;1552605240;mircea_popescu;the supporting in 3 was not merely food -- all these idle useless fucktarded dorks expected to eg heat tghemselves in winter for free with the abundant waste heat resulting from 2. and to steal off the production like. and to generally not work and etc. with the possible exception of bulgaria, romania had the worst workforce of anywhere in europe, at moment 1990.
1902587;1552605522;mircea_popescu;this ~was~ fixed, in point of fact, and while http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893885 items are readily derrided as a sort of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-245.330-245.440 nevertheless it is the case that the [http://trilema.com/2011/romanul-si-marea/#selection-141.0-169.68][Doua sute de servitori imbracati frumos, ca servitorii de casa nobila, in livrea albastra cu cravata va conduc la ora actuala ca pe vitele c
1902588;1552605522;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 19:48 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I found only this one http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Iitk3/?raw=true  although I remember a better one
1902589;1552605522;mircea_popescu;are sunteti din pozitia de expati prin multinationale.] actuallty fixed romania's pre-eminent problem in the 90s, one that ceausescu failed to even dare address -- witness how there's no discussion of "you fucks are the worst miners that ever went down a shaft" in response to the "jos cu burghezia rosie" bullshit he had to confront in valea jiului cca 77.
1902590;1552605556;mircea_popescu;ie, the writer dorks aren't the ~only ones~ he was... abstainedly uncritical with. cowardly enough, he also did the same when his skin was in it.
1902591;1552605623;mircea_popescu;so no "tranzitie" bullshit whatsoever : we're gonna have to cut all the spurious "industry" in name only, and cut all the fucktards who depend of it. and IT WAS DONE. and it was done as hard and fast as it ~could~ be done, witness the whole "miners invading capital" lulz during radu vasile.
1902592;1552605703;mircea_popescu;so yes romania kinda lost its nuclear technology plants ; but romania also now has fine mechanics that actually works, and actually makes money, and unlike bulgaria or fucking austria, let alone jokes like costa rica or argentina, has a very well working, agile and effectual industrial base. narrower than it could have been in a very idealised sense, but way the fuck wider than it'd have been had eg the "agricultural plans" o
1902593;1552605703;mircea_popescu;f hruschev era caer went in.
1902594;1552605838;mircea_popescu;there's exactly nothing wrong with "making breaks for bmw". all bmw consists of is producers of parts, an assembly plant, and a sticker factory. what you ~want~ in that cake is to be one of the parts producers. it is folly to imagine "owning intellectual property" in "the brand" has any fucking value. it is idiocy to try like the argentines, to assemble chinese kits and call it "an industry". the only good position is the pos
1902595;1552605838;mircea_popescu;ition ro went for, and mostly got. in the large land grab post us collapse, romania got what pieces it could grab, and while it didn't grab as much as say germany, or poland, it grabbed WAY the fuck more than even france, let the ufck alone jokes like spain. and it did better in this land rush than it did in the 60s/70s oil rush we discussed yest.
1902596;1552605869;mircea_popescu;and it mostly did better because isarescu is not ceausescu, at that. ie, came from a wineyard fambly.
1902597;1552606597;mircea_popescu;by which i mean, that negotiating with the miners was the absolute worst fucking decision possible. the policy is either correct, in which case it gets defended, or incorrect, in which case it gets corrected. there can't possibly be this "oh, we should x but let's y instead", factual-abdication-without-formal-abdication. in which sense diana_coman has a solid point, "dood should have had his referendum ipso facto in 77, not b
1902598;1552606598;mircea_popescu;s about for another idle decade, waiting for the pile to rot"
1902599;1552606761;mircea_popescu;now, admittedly [http://trilema.com/2009/de-mogulibus/#selection-65.31-65.204][the average 20yo] living in 1990 had no fucking clue of any of the foregoing : not merely because the average 20yo has no fucking clue anywhere and anytime, ustarded 20yos actually go into debt to go to "college" today, even! but also because other than the romanian citizens i personally know, NO FUCKING BODY had ANY FUCKING CLUE about ANYTHING. AT
1902600;1552606761;mircea_popescu; FUCKING ALL.
1902601;1552606963;mircea_popescu;and incidentally, this continues -- there's "romanian bdsm" dorks today, as fucking if, amusingly omitting to mention that there's exactly one romanian bdsm-er ; and [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1900071][hilarious cvasi-republican posturing] and all the rest of it. that they're drowning in hollow halo of buzzwords which nevertheless fails to mask at all the complete sadness underneath is not like the fucking martians' f
1902602;1552606963;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 23:04 mircea_popescu: iptomonede, opinii" but even manages to write [https://www.cyberculture.ro/2015/08/07/carte-maladia-lui-eminescu-eugen-simion/][a piece on] the celebrated http://trilema.com/2011/romania-cea-de-basm-partea-i/ item (four years later) without somehow managing to at all EVEN MENTION let alone fucking address the whole reason public funds were even misdirected towards printing that (meanwhile melted down) piece of crap.
1902603;1552606963;mircea_popescu;ault. this is what the mass-romanian is and does, nobody is needed to "do it to him", much like nobody's needed to drag shit into lelea saveta's cunt. she does it, by herself, every time she wipes.
1902604;1552607047;mircea_popescu;so yeah, while isarescu was trying to figure out which accreditives to sign in which order on which day, bnr of that winter being the largest cheque kiting entreprise in the entire world, a bunch of morons sitting on upturned beer cases "discussed politics". that nothing comprehensible came of the latter effort's the participants' fault.
1902605;1552607645;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902449 << i'll tell you exactly what it means : my preferred course at the time would have been to execute everyone with a https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsbucovina.ro%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F12%2Fcarnet-pcr.jpg
1902606;1552607645;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 09:56 spyked: diana_coman, I suspect this was mostly a case of "revision is well-received, but don't change anything"; which is why iliescu/fsn had so much support and average derp saw the taranisti as "way too mean" (no idea precisely what "mean" means, that's what I've been told)
1902607;1552607678;mircea_popescu;execute, as in, shot in the head. everyone, as in, 2-3mn people.
1902608;1552607746;mircea_popescu;that, sadly, was unsupportable, correctness be damned. and if you ain't gonna do the right thing, iliescu's way the fuck better a schelling point than herpitty-derp&co.
1902609;1552608008;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902474 << all signs point to ballas having been lost to literal drinking.
1902610;1552608008;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 14:32 asciilifeform: ( i dunno if al schwartz drank, but may as well )
1902611;1552613084;BingoBoingo;In http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901502 The chicken video is online https://gfycat.com/understatedsameamericankestrel
1902612;1552613084;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 16:36 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: eh folx are still waiting for the vid from the pentagon parking lot cams on '9/11'
1902613;1552613191;BingoBoingo;https://giant.gfycat.com/UnderstatedSameAmericankestrel.webm
1902614;1552613972;BingoBoingo;And in the unsafety of safe spaces https://archive.is/4hqgF
1902615;1552614883;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902591 << i gotta ask, why spurious ? ro kalash fires a++ . ro made (sad, sovok, but) working autos (even with 4cycle motor, i.e. not trabant), pumped own petrol, ran yes reactors, didn't depend on foreign 'experts' and fear 'sanctions' and sit under curse of http://trilema.com/2011/jaful-si-economia/#selection-23.0-31.529
1902616;1552614883;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 23:20 mircea_popescu: so no "tranzitie" bullshit whatsoever : we're gonna have to cut all the spurious "industry" in name only, and cut all the fucktards who depend of it. and IT WAS DONE. and it was done as hard and fast as it ~could~ be done, witness the whole "miners invading capital" lulz during radu vasile.
1902617;1552614944;mircea_popescu;what is now alro was one of the largest bauxite processing plants in europe. it cost ~over 8k ~~~1980~~~ usd to make a ton of aluminum there, and this at romania's EXTREMELY CHEAP hydro power rates.
1902618;1552614959;mircea_popescu;you're thinking of the survivors. romania had ~9x more industry than you can summon to mind.
1902619;1552614961;asciilifeform;in fact, genius shoemaker pissed right into the mouth of the 'comcon' sanctions, bought semiconductor fab line straight from ti
1902620;1552614964;mircea_popescu;romania mined coal that was not worth transporting.
1902621;1552614978;mircea_popescu;romania made train engines nobody would buy, and train cars that it could not use.
1902622;1552615014;asciilifeform;i saw depot with pretty ragged looking locomotives in timis. seems like for 'trains nobody would', they still run?
1902623;1552615030;asciilifeform;saw running 'dacias' too
1902624;1552615033;mircea_popescu;yes, at 30mph.
1902625;1552615038;mircea_popescu;this was obsolete in 1920.
1902626;1552615057;asciilifeform;on one hand yes; on other, 'ford' from 2009 dun run nao ~at all, not 20 not 10.
1902627;1552615064;asciilifeform;cuz , see, 'computer needs replace'
1902628;1552615089;asciilifeform;(actual report from old colleague, who went through series of ameri-autos that dutifully expired just as he paid off the credit, and didn't seem to teach him any)
1902629;1552615091;mircea_popescu;and the list goes on. romania made more phospo-nitrogen fertilizer than the us currently uses -- and it cost to make about twice what anyone'd pay.
1902630;1552615093;mircea_popescu;and so the fuck on.
1902631;1552615122;asciilifeform;cost-to-make in what ? i thought 'all time is burned time'
1902632;1552615132;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what do you want me to say ? "if atomic winter came then 1980s ro industry would be good" ? these if dun work.
1902633;1552615140;asciilifeform;they didn't have to cut open that gold mountain, to make it, neh
1902634;1552615146;asciilifeform;just put the whip to some bodies
1902635;1552615151;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cost to make in "just sell the natgas at bekescsaba, rather than send to azomures"
1902636;1552615162;asciilifeform;this is where ru nao is
1902637;1552615176;asciilifeform;result is that 'foreigners came to shores, leave bastards in charge, soon yer people forgotten' etc
1902638;1552615179;mircea_popescu;ie, cubic meter of raw gas worth 10, cubic meter of gas processed by azomures, worth 6.
1902639;1552615200;mircea_popescu;as the workers weren't willing (nor even able) to PAY to play, their very expensive playground got cancelled.
1902640;1552615200;asciilifeform;rright but 'worth' aint a scalar
1902641;1552615210;mircea_popescu;yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10.
1902642;1552615216;asciilifeform;what is worth of being able to say fuckyou to washington , zurich, berlin, put together ?
1902643;1552615225;asciilifeform;that's what refining it yerself on ww2-era gear buys
1902644;1552615230;mircea_popescu;apparently it's worth something for no more than ~decade.
1902645;1552615235;mircea_popescu;there's a time-decay function to it.
1902646;1552615253;mircea_popescu;gotta start doing ~something~ besides saying "fuckyou" to parents, is the fundamental lesson of all adolescence.
1902647;1552615295;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10. << One of the bigger cleaning product consortiums recently pulled production out of Uruguay. Easier to ship packaged retail ready from Mexico than water down and bottle in the labor environment here.
1902648;1552615307;asciilifeform;per logic of the 'spherical horse' market(tm)(r) mircea_popescu is 100% correct. but the 'market' aint one when there's derps printing money, it's simply a larger sovok
1902649;1552615314;asciilifeform;that decided it has ~0 use for the little sovok it ate
1902650;1552615327;mircea_popescu;and the low skill, low productivity, worthless workforce ain't no fucking joke, either. you can say "ceausescu made wrong call, bet on oil, prices changed, he lost". the THING however is, ceausescu made bet in 66, plans called for plants to be done by 69, they were done by 74.
1902651;1552615338;mircea_popescu;can just as well say "far seeing leader sabotaged by inept idiocy of workers"
1902652;1552615353;mircea_popescu;had they actually been done on fucking time, they might've paid for themselves as the plans planned.
1902653;1552615362;mircea_popescu;but as it was, medgidia NEVER was profitable.
1902654;1552615375;mircea_popescu;well, until sold in late 90s, anyway
1902655;1552615420;asciilifeform;i dunno that, e.g., belomor canal, was also ever 'profitable'. but also suspect that it is not good metric. ( was t34 factory profitable ? what's the ev of a t34? )
1902656;1552615422;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the world that is is the world that is. one must close all cycles in it, one can't simply go "oh, we'll keep going the insolvent '''right way'''."
1902657;1552615425;mircea_popescu;either be solvent or stfu.
1902658;1552615447;asciilifeform;gaddafi was massively solvent until suddenly 'oops'
1902659;1552615448;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform we're not discussing that. this was peacetime economy, and the ~only product of its working was more per-capita laziness.
1902660;1552615457;asciilifeform;and he delivered his petro 100% ontime
1902661;1552615479;mircea_popescu;ye, the ONLY measurably increasing output of running the 1980s state economy was an increase of per-capita laziness, uselessness, and personal sense of entitlement of the "worker"
1902662;1552615485;asciilifeform;i suspect the bulk mass of 'worker' is similarly lazy errywhere (possibly excepting jp and other oddities)
1902663;1552615494;mircea_popescu;certainly in every socialism.
1902664;1552615509;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, the point stands -- either close your cycles or die.
1902665;1552615547;mircea_popescu;in fact, ro 1980s and us 2010s are so fucking similar it blows one's mind.
1902666;1552615565;asciilifeform;aint that whole point of 'autarky' 'we dun care if you won't buy this petrol, we refine it for own trabants and fuckyou with hot poker' -- to close cycle ?
1902667;1552615574;asciilifeform;why does 'close cycle' have to involve j00z in zurich ?
1902668;1552615574;mircea_popescu;"what is the end product of Qx ?" "well... more of the workforce came late more often, missed more days, and feels should have larger salary and less work to do"
1902669;1552615603;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it doesn't. but it is also very easy to measure unclosed cycles : as they leak, the black market widens.
1902670;1552615624;mircea_popescu;by the time they cut the pig, official rate was <20:1, black market was >100:1
1902671;1552615625;asciilifeform;i dun think there's a modernistan without massive blackmarket (i.e. comparable in mass to the 'white')
1902672;1552615685;mircea_popescu;yet you can't buy the dollar for 0.00005 btc anywhere. it's the same 0.00025 everywhere.
1902673;1552615693;asciilifeform;interesting, btw, detail : stalin, seems, mostly closed eyes to black market. the idjit 'let's actually practice what preach' thing began in earnest with hrusch.
1902674;1552615707;mircea_popescu;i don;'t mean the black market in goods. i mean the financial black market.
1902675;1552615718;asciilifeform;aa like the ru pegging lulz
1902676;1552615730;asciilifeform;'dollar is worth 16 rub' thing
1902677;1552615742;mircea_popescu;this is the true measure of unclosed cycles, you understand ? if your local currency is dropping, it is always dropping under the pressure of unclosed cycles
1902678;1552615757;mircea_popescu;specifically meaning, resources you misallocated into making less-useful-than-possible end products.
1902679;1552615761;asciilifeform;how do i distinguish this from the pressure of a miami tho
1902680;1552615772;mircea_popescu;what do you mean ?
1902681;1552615782;mircea_popescu;that's precisely what it is, the measuring of the pressure of a miami nearby.
1902682;1552615791;mircea_popescu;IF your autarky workls, THEREFORE there's no possibility of miami.
1902683;1552615807;mircea_popescu;eg, our autarky works, nobody here sits wistfully dreaming of reading i dunno, #linux logs.
1902684;1552615815;mircea_popescu;but 1980s ro autarky did not work.
1902685;1552615877;asciilifeform;i distinctly recall a thread where mircea_popescu explained 'stupid wants to go and be with other stupid'. i.e. buncha derps in ro considered 'freedom' to be 'go shopping in vienna'
1902686;1552615882;mircea_popescu;(and this is why closed borders is a very fucktarded policy -- you obviously WANT to let the idiots out. the only problem commies encountered was that if they opened the borders, the idiots'd have ~stayed~. which is already indicative of the breakage.)
1902687;1552615931;mircea_popescu;so no, while in theory appealing, this theoretical autarky is not at all how things worked in the practice we're discussing. they had unclosed cycles galore, and there had to be a solution, AND they were in no measure to produce the solution.
1902688;1552615937;mircea_popescu;regime change was dialectically inevitable.
1902689;1552615963;asciilifeform;this i'll buy. as surely as the amerinds were doomed to 'buy' the beads.
1902690;1552615979;mircea_popescu;one of the earliest documented cases of miami.
1902691;1552616005;mircea_popescu;there's a ~reason~ miami "pressures" latin ameritards, but period "london" did not in the slightest impress 1880s chinese.
1902692;1552616028;mircea_popescu;china was net silver importer by the megatonne, for this exact reason, "what fucking miami, keks"
1902693;1552616031;asciilifeform;imho the interesting detail re 1989 was that ~these~ particular 'settlers' were already descended to approx the amerind stage, and sold ~entirely hollow beads.
1902694;1552616059;mircea_popescu;chicks wanted jeans, what. because miner garb is SO COOL OMG.
1902695;1552616077;mircea_popescu;in retrospect, they weren't even lying, you should see them, 100% in the shit.
1902696;1552616088;mircea_popescu;lest their cunts fly off or who knows what's going on in the noggin.
1902697;1552616098;asciilifeform;asciilifeform had entirely same 'eyes melt' experience when went to ameri-foodstore for 1st coupla times. today i spend good money at shop that loox exactly like what well-stocked one in sovok did in 1985. and not in 'dazzling variety' where cornsyrupinerrything.
1902698;1552616113;asciilifeform;the beads -- were hollow.
1902699;1552616116;asciilifeform;and made of grass.
1902700;1552616140;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2011/grozavia-dintre-femei-si-fete/#selection-56.0-56.1 << item.
1902701;1552616158;asciilifeform;wassat?
1902702;1552616194;mircea_popescu;buncha chicks in jeans, cca 2010.
1902703;1552616199;asciilifeform;aa
1902704;1552616208;mircea_popescu;just what granny wanted so, SO bad.
1902705;1552616217;*;asciilifeform never had a jeans and still doesn't, possibly wrong man to comment
1902706;1552616221;mircea_popescu;they weren't lying, they wanted the shit. what for, who knows, but there it is.
1902707;1552616252;asciilifeform;this prolly deserves a trilema/kink-high link
1902708;1552616260;asciilifeform;but i'd be lying if i said that i grasp 'kink high'
1902709;1552616284;mircea_popescu;only thing i see was literally, they were afraid their cunts will fly off.
1902710;1552616299;mircea_popescu;there's this "stealing nose" kiddy interaction trope from the period, adults pretending to steal kids' noses.
1902711;1552616303;asciilifeform;i dun understand wai someone would spend fat bux to put on sack cloth
1902712;1552616304;mircea_popescu;i guess it took ?
1902713;1552616324;asciilifeform;wouldja wear sack cloth mircea_popescu ? if didn't have to for some odd costume party setup ?
1902714;1552616345;mircea_popescu;well yes, if i did any shaft mining, i'd buy some pairs of jeans.
1902715;1552616356;asciilifeform;shaft mining overall sure.
1902716;1552616365;asciilifeform;i have one for certain works.
1902717;1552616380;asciilifeform;q is re the 'feeling like a trader'(tm)(r)(ballas) simulacrum
1902718;1552616399;mircea_popescu;i dunno why i'd wanna feel like a miner, tbh.
1902719;1552616411;asciilifeform;asciilifeform, for his part, dun want ; nor wants plastic obummer-years bmw, nor crapple
1902720;1552616463;asciilifeform;i dun even know if the chix 'want to feel like miner', i suspect the higher nervous system aint even involved in the sense where they 'want' anyffin but to look-like-neighbour
1902721;1552616463;mircea_popescu;i thought you had apples.
1902722;1552616490;asciilifeform;a la http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-507.65-507.989
1902723;1552616503;mircea_popescu;i suspect it's some kind of psychological comfort somewhere. the same kind of femherd cowsies keep pestering my slaves about how "they gotta get jeans" as pester them about "omg your purse is open"
1902724;1552616513;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have all sortsa thing, for use in whoring to keep lights on.
1902725;1552616517;asciilifeform;not only crapples.
1902726;1552616518;mircea_popescu;i literally believe they feel their cuntal purse is open or somesuch
1902727;1552616529;asciilifeform;i dun display'em for public, cuz wtf, i dun post pictures of the shits i take either
1902728;1552616538;asciilifeform;possib
1902729;1552616562;mircea_popescu;(indistinctly, same applies to teh bois. in fact, they have it worse, lotta difficulty involved in securing a cunt you know is there but can't even see)
1902730;1552616692;asciilifeform;the bois will buy even less tangible brooklyn bridges, e.g. maffs phd
1902731;1552616763;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re 'femherd pester', iirc you had a piece where 'see, like chicken, they gotta send SYN, get ACK, coo-coo, how else to know that fox hasn't yet eaten'
1902732;1552616774;mircea_popescu;but no, i dun own any jeans. actually, hit up the local specialist in gentleman items (run by this very nice old lady, whom, when she dies, that is IT for dressing in costa rica). two suits, four extra pairs of pants, four shirts, a tie, a dozen socks and a pair of pijamas. all natural fiber, look fetching on me too. took like a fucking hour, and a brick of cash, but honestly i can't think of a way i could have spent the hour
1902733;1552616774;mircea_popescu; or the brick better.
1902734;1552616810;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they do this weird thing where they poke (literally, with finger) girl walking by me to get her attention then "omg your purse is open!!!". fucking weird as all hell.
1902735;1552616835;mircea_popescu;somehow, however, this isn't "acoso callejero". dudes poking them to "hey, my dick's here", that never happens. confusion reigns.
1902736;1552616838;asciilifeform;i'm not even mircea_popescu but spent moar on natural fiber i suspect than on comp
1902737;1552616860;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw do you flame-test 'em ?
1902738;1552616874;mircea_popescu;on occasion.
1902739;1552616894;asciilifeform;afaik aint no way to fool the lit match litmus.
1902740;1552616931;mircea_popescu;woman's in my wot, what, she's gonna stiff me.
1902741;1552616943;asciilifeform;her no, upstream yes
1902742;1552617046;mircea_popescu;nah, old networks survive here. egyptian cotton still exists, peruvian cotton still exists, there's a lot going on in the real world, ie, outside us concentration camp.
1902743;1552617054;asciilifeform;neato.
1902744;1552617104;mircea_popescu;i have doubts it'll survive the passing of the current generation, the girlies in the shop are utterly confused at proceedings that seem only natural to her and me, but what can you do.
1902745;1552617117;*;asciilifeform as sits here, meanwhile pet attempts to replicate ro/sovok cake with ameri-findable ingredients
1902746;1552617143;asciilifeform;^ verily it's quite like asciilifeform's 'i'ma make a bolix', in ways
1902747;1552617149;mircea_popescu;i hope she gets to die with it ; honestly other than me the only other customers are pretentious middle aged women buying 20 bux worth of presents with credit cards and the occasional ranchero getting a funeral suit or w/e.
1902748;1552617164;asciilifeform;apparently the miami's working
1902749;1552617187;mircea_popescu;what do the idiots know.
1902750;1552617225;asciilifeform;that's the thing you can't buy on 'market' -- sumthing resembling taste. ameri-food seems like a deal to folx who have nfi what even edible means
1902751;1552617236;asciilifeform;'wai spend 10 on milk when fdr-milk is 3'
1902752;1552617304;asciilifeform;i watched repeatedly with dropped jaw as folx with no shortage of moola ate ameri-cheese, entirely voluntarily, and regularly
1902753;1552617334;mircea_popescu;that's not even it. whole bunch of tards, "oh, this bottle of champagne is great, $5000". as a factual matter no bottle of fizzy is genuinely worth that much. not anything you'd drink, anyway. what';s worse, if i pour that and random bottom shelf stuff they couldn't tell them apart. half the time can't tell bicarb fizz apart.
1902754;1552617343;asciilifeform;picture e.g. cat who prefers that dried liquishit the ameritards feed the poor animals, to tuna
1902755;1552617349;asciilifeform;aint no such, right
1902756;1552617349;mircea_popescu;ie, there's a whole lotta aspirational buying and scant else besides.
1902757;1552617377;mircea_popescu;he dun want a bottle to enjoy with his private, personal, wholly owned whores. he want a bottle to drink by himself and feel JUST LIKE nigger in x movie.
1902758;1552617377;asciilifeform;they'll pay the 5k for sticker yes. and then 50k for plastic bmw to sit in while drink.
1902759;1552617389;mircea_popescu;somethinglikethat.
1902760;1552617391;asciilifeform;'feel like a trader'(tm)(r)(ballas)
1902761;1552617418;mircea_popescu;so, they end up buying plastic pret a porter sacks for whatever they wanna spend, and me an' my remnant friend can discuss sartreria.
1902762;1552617608;asciilifeform;aaha
1902763;1552617611;asciilifeform;but where to get hat!
1902764;1552617642;mircea_popescu;colombia, mine.
1902765;1552617659;asciilifeform;( y'know, ~that~ hat, the 'bolix' hat, from old mircea_popescu piece , 'last loom broke' )
1902766;1552617682;mircea_popescu;anyway, all this is a great advantage to me (while the fuel lasts, i guess). i'm always the only one in the shop, everyone's always got all the time in the world, "we love to serve", the taylor doesn't even need to measure me because ~he remembers~.
1902767;1552617700;mircea_popescu;because how wouldn't he even, not like he's beseiged by alternative measures.
1902768;1552617724;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dunno i wanna wear a tophat. imo i'm not quite pearshaped enough for it as of yet.
1902769;1552617735;asciilifeform;lol granted
1902770;1552617753;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu single-handedly feeds the tailor tho, situation moar dire than i thought
1902771;1552617788;asciilifeform;i thought there were at least a coupla platoons' worth of mircea_popescus in mircea_popescustan
1902772;1552617797;mircea_popescu;i never saw anyone else there, besides as i said, 40yo middle class wife buying a present or else a ranchero dood (looking just like maduro, most of the time in canadian workshirt and jeans) buying "occasion"
1902773;1552617821;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if they are, they're well hidden. let alone i never ran into one -- wouldn't you expect they'd proposition one of my cunts at some point ?
1902774;1552617834;asciilifeform;maybe they run 'closed cycle'
1902775;1552617836;mircea_popescu;i mean, not in a week, ok, not in a month, ok, YEARS ?!
1902776;1552617852;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i never heard of this. if it worked, i'd run it too. what, fuck my sister ?
1902777;1552617871;asciilifeform;i wouldn't propose to know. i know moar about how to refine petrol than about what mircea_popescus ecosystem like
1902778;1552617876;mircea_popescu;human reproduction is precisely the ONE non closed-cycle. even "self-sufficient" rome invited the occasional sabine over for drinks
1902779;1552617916;asciilifeform;lol i wasn't thinking in the 'fuck sisters' vein but 'import own chix'. ( as iirc mircea_popescu wrote about doing in ro, 'locals unfuckable' or how went the piece )
1902780;1552617924;mircea_popescu;but judging from the sorry state of bars / strip clubs / nightlife in general, i do not believe so.
1902781;1552617932;asciilifeform;nuts.
1902782;1552617939;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i still said hi to evident top ticket items in the street.
1902783;1552617953;asciilifeform;then i got nuffin.
1902784;1552617971;asciilifeform;most of what i know re the other non-aboriginal folx in cr , comes from mircea_popescu's casino piece
1902785;1552617983;mircea_popescu;i don't dispute there's the occasional tico with some dough. but i'm pretty sure they're saving it up and hitting the disneyworlkd mcdonalds.
1902786;1552617983;asciilifeform;and from meeting several folx similar to the protagonists thereof
1902787;1552618005;asciilifeform;miamiworld lol
1902788;1552618025;asciilifeform;1 enigma in asciilifeform's head : how the fuck does ~1~ trip to miamimecca not cure
1902789;1552618054;asciilifeform;so ok, they go to lolmart. and 'dazzled by variety'. but then at some point they gotta buy the 'food' and try put in mouth
1902790;1552618077;BingoBoingo;Well, how long did it take mircea_popescu to go from "Imma get citizenship here someday" to "Only coming back with spears" re: Argentina
1902791;1552618095;BingoBoingo;Some places illusion well until inspected
1902792;1552618117;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: he took iirc the 2 mo., as incidentally described by the 'ru argentina' d00d i linked to last mo. he wrote that ~100% of ru expats go from 'i want to be buried in recoleta' to 'burn it all' in ~2mo.
1902793;1552618149;BingoBoingo;So, how is orc supposed to investigate Miama when they have at most two weeks?
1902794;1552618168;asciilifeform;could try eating a bite of 'food' for instance
1902795;1552618175;asciilifeform;that really imho oughta do the trick
1902796;1552618187;asciilifeform;or he could try company of ameri-chix
1902797;1552618195;asciilifeform;or... but why ruin appetites
1902798;1552618227;mircea_popescu;(and speaking of "luxury", romania's ex-minister woman that the hubbub was about recently, "Rumanas vivían entre lujos" lived in a pretty shitty apt in rohrmoser, which is a sort of... auburndale, i guess ?
1902799;1552618230;BingoBoingo;I don't think you've seen the crap Latinos eat when left to own devices
1902800;1552618253;mircea_popescu;https://www.diarioextra.com/Noticia/detalle/378184/anulan-sentencia-de-exministra-rumana << incidentally, she walks.
1902801;1552618256;asciilifeform;what, guinea pigs ? perfectly fine meat neh
1902802;1552618273;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Nah, the places where they have choices
1902803;1552618283;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they're trained from childhood to atrophy own sense.
1902804;1552618295;asciilifeform;moar than the ameri-sads ?!
1902805;1552618296;mircea_popescu;"believe what you hear, not what you see", right ? gotta fit in.
1902806;1552618308;mircea_popescu;bout same. there's no substantial difference, catholics.
1902807;1552618353;asciilifeform;mebbe centralamericas. but when in BingoBoingostan i went into a gigantic open-air http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902697 equiv.
1902808;1552618353;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 02:14 asciilifeform: asciilifeform had entirely same 'eyes melt' experience when went to ameri-foodstore for 1st coupla times. today i spend good money at shop that loox exactly like what well-stocked one in sovok did in 1985. and not in 'dazzling variety' where cornsyrupinerrything.
1902809;1552618355;asciilifeform;100% edible.
1902810;1552618369;asciilifeform;~those~ orcs moar like ro than like that.
1902811;1552618381;asciilifeform;somehow, have working taste buds, or seem to
1902812;1552618381;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Those were the better cut.
1902813;1552618387;BingoBoingo;There's a worse cut here
1902814;1552618416;mircea_popescu;you know, over here they stuff themselves with "chicharron".
1902815;1552618424;mircea_popescu;which is almost exactly hamburger "meat"
1902816;1552618431;mircea_popescu;~fried pork rinds.
1902817;1552618431;asciilifeform;ugh
1902818;1552618444;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> somehow, have working taste buds, or seem to << The Peruana is much better at composing flavors into food than I am, but... her sense of smell just might be weaker than mine
1902819;1552618478;asciilifeform;odd, for a chix, they're supposed to have good nose
1902820;1552618491;BingoBoingo;Here it's torta frita. I'd go for some pork rinds. Like in old country
1902821;1552618492;mircea_popescu;in any case, the one thing contemporary tard is trained for, is to NOT make decisions and NOT decide investments.
1902822;1552618504;mircea_popescu;it's, literally, TOO MUCH WORK, to dislike miami.
1902823;1552618526;mircea_popescu;recall that scammy fuckwit graham's piece about how "talking is too much trouble" ?
1902824;1552618533;asciilifeform;it'd be, iguess, like to ask christian to stop believing in gate of heaven
1902825;1552618539;asciilifeform;'but then what for!!'
1902826;1552618587;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-start-your-own-country-adnotated/#selection-133.0-133.510 << item
1902827;1552618673;*;asciilifeform bbl, ffaisms then bed
1902828;1552618825;mircea_popescu;auburndale << auburndale, queens, for the record.
1902829;1552618863;mircea_popescu;kinda-sorta-nothingmuch.
1902830;1552628070;*;mircea_popescu shall finally offer http://trilema.com/2011/mircea-eliade/#selection-43.0-43.498 to round off the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902603 lulz.
1902831;1552628070;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 23:42 mircea_popescu: ault. this is what the mass-romanian is and does, nobody is needed to "do it to him", much like nobody's needed to drag shit into lelea saveta's cunt. she does it, by herself, every time she wipes.
1902832;1552636339;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in today's installment of "how to fuck over internet scholars" : take the chunk popper attributes to kant ("I do not wish to hide the fact that I can only look with repugnance . . upon the puffed-up  pretentiousness of all these volumes filled with wisdom, such as are fashionable nowadays. For I am fully satisfied that . . the accepted methods must endlessly increase these follies and blunders, and that even the com
1902833;1552636339;mircea_popescu;plete annihilation of all these fanciful achievements could not possibly be as harmful as this fictitious science with its accursed fertility.") and have them source teh original german.
1902834;1552636354;mircea_popescu;whole internet fulla references to a purely imaginary object, that ironically enough discusses... ITSELF.
1902835;1552636363;mircea_popescu;then they wonder why sokal had ~0 measurable impact. duh.
1902836;1552636407;mircea_popescu;was it the prolegomene ? no such wonder there. was it then the kritik, ~only book anyone can even name anyway ? mnope. WHAT COULD IT BE!!!
1902837;1552655262;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902641 -> "noi ne facem ca muncim, ei se fac ca ne platesc" (we pretend we work, they pretend they pay us); so I'd say it was more the case that there were a few actually working and all the rest being clever; just like now in a different socialism.
1902838;1552655262;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 02:00 mircea_popescu: yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10.
1902839;1552655535;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902694 -> I always thought jeans were cowboy stuff, not miner; and at least initially part of the "waiting for the americans" i.e. a tribute to an imagined greatness; how it morphed afterwards into an uniform I have no idea.
1902840;1552655535;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 02:14 mircea_popescu: chicks wanted jeans, what. because miner garb is SO COOL OMG.
1902841;1552656012;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902744 -> I never understood why can't the new ones be *trained* ; esp since it's not like they are sososo busy that they can't use the time and learn something at work.
1902842;1552656012;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 02:31 mircea_popescu: i have doubts it'll survive the passing of the current generation, the girlies in the shop are utterly confused at proceedings that seem only natural to her and me, but what can you do.
1902843;1552656057;diana_coman;ftr in my experience it's not only a lack of practical experience but literally, they have no real idea re what they are supposedly selling, it's all the same to them, what.
1902844;1552660473;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i do not believe so.
1902845;1552660505;mircea_popescu;this "i could do work ~if i wanted to~" is the unconvincing bullshit spewing quite naturally out of any inept narcissist since before the invention of the word.
1902846;1552660511;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, re what?
1902847;1552660526;diana_coman;ah, it wasn't that they could do work, no; it was that they knew they did not it
1902848;1552660532;diana_coman;did not do it.
1902849;1552660548;mircea_popescu;in ACTUAL FACT, romanian worker of the 80s got ~120% the value of his labour, by an over-welfarist government, wrote himself hallucinated options to consider this "insufficient" to an entirely ridiculous standard, and proceeded from there with a web of lies.
1902850;1552660654;mircea_popescu;this tendency perpetuated past the shooting, and is visible in eg http://trilema.com/2010/piinea-amara-a-baietasilor-de-cartier/#selection-35.0-47.232
1902851;1552660665;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, no argument there, lol.
1902852;1552660696;mircea_popescu;in point of fact, instead of saying "the party is ~exactly truthful~ in what we ~falsely~ call propaganda, and we are making here WAY the fuck more than we could anywhere else, and without it we'd be exactly like zaire", they came up with bs.
1902853;1552660739;mircea_popescu;so no, it's not "ei se X, noi ne Y". it's very much the other way around : noi ne Z (=ne cacam pe noi), ei fac ce pot sa se prefaca ca de fapt nu.
1902854;1552660786;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, note that I worded it precisely in *that* order, starting with "noi ne" . I don't know what/who you are arguing there, lol.
1902855;1552660830;mircea_popescu;well, not you, lol. just tryina put the implicit explicitly for the innocent reader.
1902856;1552660925;mircea_popescu;the important part, to my eyes, is to underscore that the "being clever" was NOT, as the "clever" in question silently ie implicitly misrepresent, a case of "choice", ie, "seeing how little i get paid i react thusly". the "clever" in question was very much what such "clever" ever is : "seeing what a fucktard i am, this is what i could pretend is '''really''' going on to not have to confront it".
1902857;1552660941;diana_coman;linking it back up, the breakup of the cosy place for the clever idler was I suspect precisely what they meant by "mean" in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902449
1902858;1552660941;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 09:56 spyked: diana_coman, I suspect this was mostly a case of "revision is well-received, but don't change anything"; which is why iliescu/fsn had so much support and average derp saw the taranisti as "way too mean" (no idea precisely what "mean" means, that's what I've been told)
1902859;1552660951;mircea_popescu;fuck, the exact process is visible both among a subset of trilema commenters during the romanian years and superset of other-romanian-bloggers, then as now.
1902860;1552660961;mircea_popescu;diana_coman quite so, definitely.
1902861;1552660982;asciilifeform;reminded me of old interesting tidbit http://trilema.com/2017/%D0%9A%D1%82%D0%BE-%D1%82%D1%8B-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B8/#selection-393.0-397.127
1902862;1552661007;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I'm quite sure it's clearly visible in today's western socialism too.
1902863;1552661028;diana_coman;not as if it's specific romanian this, sadly.
1902864;1552661090;mircea_popescu;re the "cowboy stuff" : all the us "wild west" stuff is a cheap and quick daghuerotype after spanish traditions of the time. this is visible if one studies say the horse working (this is a term of art) as practiced in spanish-speaking lands comparatively to english-speaking lands. everything is visibly a model to scale, and to this day the cultural overwhelm of spanish lands in all fields related is overwhelming.
1902865;1552661136;mircea_popescu;in ~this sense~ us cowboy started wearing ~a little~ denim as the west states textile industry developped. originally it was miner garb. then it was extended to make tent sheet for army. THEN it was taken by cowboy to replace the much more expensive LEATHER the spanish were wearing.
1902866;1552661187;mircea_popescu;this said, the french (and somewhat italian, hence all their lolwesterns) 50s/60s "wild west" fixation did in fact produce an abstract (and not much related to any reality) euro-cowboy, sure.
1902867;1552661228;asciilifeform;ddr also filmed surprisingly large pile of lulwesterns ('easterns' to aficionados)
1902868;1552661274;mircea_popescu;aha. and french period mags for kids are fulla "indian-sympathy" pieces (the french had a very unique take to the gibbering nations among colonial powers, they wanted to make america a sorta africa, "continue traditions undisturbed")
1902869;1552661330;mircea_popescu;who's to say it wouldn't have been better, tbh. note how the "equal to capitol" german colony they ended up ~is very much reverting~. they got the matriarchy back, they got the stupid-lazy-itsok back, hard to distinguish today's "american" from yesterday's cherokee.
1902870;1552661382;mircea_popescu;one could argue all those gunslingers died in vain.
1902871;1552661560;mircea_popescu; the west states  << obv i mean east states, penn, ny, mass & co
1902872;1552661676;mircea_popescu;https://www.nationstates.net/nation=al-khadhulu << in other keks.
1902873;1552661757;asciilifeform;lol i remember that site, was popular before 'www game' state of art converged to lolcat
1902874;1552661778;asciilifeform;2000s. i had nfi still existed.
1902875;1552661886;mircea_popescu;i am actually clicking through choices here lol.
1902876;1552662404;asciilifeform;i'd like to request 5min of mircea_popescu wearing papal regalia . ch17 ffa , as perhaps was clear from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902386 , has a control-transfer stack ( for loops & subroutines . ) it, like errything else, is nonheapistic, therefore has a fixed size. currently set to 256. this constant gotta be nailed down. is 256 enuff? too small? too big ?
1902877;1552662404;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_
1902878;1552662422;asciilifeform;would like to discuss before i sign the ch
1902879;1552662432;mircea_popescu;256 bytes ?
1902880;1552662438;asciilifeform;entries
1902881;1552662463;asciilifeform;they hold tape positions (these are of bus width)
1902882;1552662478;mircea_popescu;so basically 256 bytes / 1024 octets
1902883;1552662491;asciilifeform;256 * 64bit on this particular machine, e.g.
1902884;1552662509;asciilifeform;( on a 32bit, 256 * 32bit , etc )
1902885;1552662526;asciilifeform;this means you can have e.g. 256 nested loops, 256 levels of subroutine calling subroutine, etc
1902886;1552662533;mircea_popescu;right, 256 bytes aka 1024 octets on 32 bit machines and 2048 octets in 64 bit machines.
1902887;1552662571;asciilifeform;( ffa does not deal directly in octets , the smallest access to storage is in unit of bus width. hence endianism-free )
1902888;1552662618;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i think 256 is perfectly defensible. should be obvious what knob to twiddle for less or more anyway, admitting either one's trying to make ffa fit into tiny embed or use it for who knows what unforeseen purpose on large machines.
1902889;1552662624;asciilifeform;it's a knob aha.
1902890;1552662640;asciilifeform;thing is, if you turn this knob, you can write a tape that's incompatible with someone who hasn't turned
1902891;1552662647;asciilifeform;hence gotta standardize
1902892;1552662680;asciilifeform;recursion is incidentally prohibited, so there aint much point imho in gigantic controlstack
1902893;1552662707;asciilifeform;orig. i had it set to 8, but decided that's unjustifiably spartan
1902894;1552662824;asciilifeform;at one time i was considering to make it adjustable on cmdline, but already have 4 params the user must give ( fz bitness, datastack height, max 'life' , and tapespace len ) and that's already much, calculating exact footprint for given invocation already requires thought
1902895;1552662930;asciilifeform;( for n00bs/readers -- ffa has fully deterministic memory footprint, by design, and 100% of what it'll use, lives on the stack, e.g. under unixlikes, setbrk() is not invoked )
1902896;1552663029;asciilifeform;anyway if neither mircea_popescu nor anyone else files an objection today, it'll be 256 ( at least for the next few chapters ) .
1902897;1552663065;mircea_popescu;i think it's fine as it is.
1902898;1552663069;asciilifeform;aite
1902899;1552663173;asciilifeform;btw , crib sheet for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902386 -- ':' puts current position on control stack; ',' pops a fz from datastack , a tape pos from controlstack, and if the fz was nonzero, control is transferred to the popped pos.  ';' simply pops the next pos from controlstack.
1902900;1552663173;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_
1902901;1552663211;asciilifeform;( ';' is meant to be used with subroutines (ch18) but can also be used to make 'infinite' loop, as illustrated in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902388 . 'life' being typically finite, program still halts )
1902902;1552663211;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 01:52 asciilifeform: !A :[Ho];
1902903;1552663232;asciilifeform;controlstack is over- and under-flow proof , similarly to the data stack from ch4-16.
1902904;1552663342;asciilifeform;this is 'forth-like' just like the rest of the mechanism.
1902905;1552663377;asciilifeform;the applicable traditional mathematical model for peh is 'turing with finite tapes'(tm)
1902906;1552663485;asciilifeform;to use ,/; as 'goto' is stylistically prohibited, if tape leaves control stack nonempty at the end of the life, operator gets a warning.
1902907;1552663576;asciilifeform;( moar spoilers : the other added item, other than 'registers' (discussed previously) is 'verdict'. all tapes produce a verdict, it is returned to calling process under unixlikes )
1902908;1552663654;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NLLBI/?raw=true << verdicts.
1902909;1552663671;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1902910;1552663733;mircea_popescu;well, thgat didn't last : "A custom field was removed from your nation as it was found to be in violation of site policy:    animal: "Obama"
1902911;1552663733;mircea_popescu;Please familiarize yourself with the site rules on acceptable content. Restoring a mod-deleted custom field may result in your nation's deletion."
1902912;1552663875;mircea_popescu;imagine these fucktards! i can't call my imaginary nation's imaginary animal the same as that other imaginary nation's equally imaginary animal!
1902913;1552663884;mircea_popescu;i guess usg got copy-right or some shit ?
1902914;1552663960;mircea_popescu;speakinbg of which, anyone remember the set of "anti-bitcoin" tards grouped around usg.pantsuit office over at "something awful" going about talking of "bit-coin" as fucking if that did something ?
1902915;1552663972;mircea_popescu;perhaps time to start talking of copy-right and demo-cracy etc.
1902916;1552663982;mircea_popescu;hu-man.
1902917;1552664070;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> https://www.nationstates.net/nation=al-khadhulu << in other keks. << For a lawless wasteland they aren't even all that well armed https://www.nationstates.net/nation=bingotonia
1902918;1552664256;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo my interest didn't survive the hour. turns out it's yet another by-morons for-morons thingee.
1902919;1552664311;BingoBoingo;It gets my attention for about half an hour every few months.
1902920;1552664352;BingoBoingo;The fallout from the decisions has degraded in sensibility over time.
1902921;1552664793;BingoBoingo;In the limited time I do remember it exists, I simply try to drive up crime and weapon ownership per capita
1902922;1552664864;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/usg-burns-delayed-notice-warrants-to-place-cameras-in-massage-parlor-for-prostitution-bust/ << Qntra -- USG Burns "Delayed Notice Warrants" To Place Cameras In Massage Parlor For Prostitution Bust
1902923;1552665441;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, since hydro was mentioned yest : one of the largest hydro development in europe is the "iron gates" complex, partnership between romania and serbia, taking advantage of danube.
1902924;1552665461;mircea_popescu;the romanian side produces ~5.2 TWh per year. the serbian side, ~5.7 TWh.
1902925;1552665484;mircea_popescu;whence the difference ? they're halves, aren't they ? here's the lulz : romania bought newer, nominally more efficient generating equipment.
1902926;1552665495;mircea_popescu;it is down so much, overal productivity is nevertheless 10% lower.
1902927;1552665499;mircea_popescu;hurray for progress!
1902928;1552665508;BingoBoingo;lol
1902929;1552665674;mircea_popescu;(at the time this was completed, early 70s, it was pretty much the largest hydro plant in the world). hoover dam, for instance, had <2MW installed capacity, vs the >2MW here.
1902930;1552665695;mircea_popescu;and this before we even discuss capacity factors (high drop like there necessarily has low capacity factors, low drop like here the opposite)
1902931;1552665958;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902841 << because their mental eh what the hell, ima write an article.
1902932;1552665958;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 13:20 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902744 -> I never understood why can't the new ones be *trained* ; esp since it's not like they are sososo busy that they can't use the time and learn something at work.
1902933;1552667147;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/15/eucrypt-chapter-16-bytestream-inputoutput-keccak/ << Ossasepia -- EuCrypt Chapter 16: Bytestream Input/Output Keccak
1902934;1552667180;diana_coman;phf please snarf ^
1902935;1552667376;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902910 << bahahahaha. and pretty sure this is recent (relatively), usedtobe all sortsa folx had 4th, 5th, reiches, in there
1902936;1552667376;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 15:28 mircea_popescu: well, thgat didn't last : "A custom field was removed from your nation as it was found to be in violation of site policy:    animal: "Obama"
1902937;1552667923;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suspect that's more acceptabru.
1902938;1552668034;BingoBoingo;Well someone who wants a reich is easy to put on a USG.lolcow watchlist. Someone who identifies Obama as an animal risks getting sympathy from the folks employed reading USG watchlists.
1902939;1552668237;BingoBoingo;Policeman White see fellow on Nazi watchlist "I've killed those fuckers in xBawks game", Policeman Brown sees fellow on Obama is an animal watchlist "I ought to buy the man a beer and compare notes"
1902940;1552669925;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/nOo9j/?raw=true << moar re ch17 'verdicts', in re earlier thrd.
1902941;1552672009;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/so-why-cant-they-be-trained/ << Trilema -- So why can't they be trained ?
1902942;1552672031;mircea_popescu;diana_coman ^ let me know if it satisfies.
1902943;1552672336;*;asciilifeform could not resist to bite , http://trilema.com/2019/so-why-cant-they-be-trained/#comment-128333
1902944;1552672834;*;mircea_popescu always answers comments (so will refrain from pointing this out on case by case basis) as well as sees new comments via feedbot rss (so there';s nothing gained by pointing one out to him)
1902945;1552672838;mircea_popescu;it looks like <feedbot> http://trilema.com/2019/so-why-cant-they-be-trained/#comment-128333 << Comments for Trilema -- Comment on So why can't they be trained ? by Stanislav Datskovskiy
1902946;1552672842;asciilifeform;aaa
1902947;1552673908;mircea_popescu;in other obscura : meanwhile i located the clou of the issue. in april 1960, at cluj, gh gh dej stated the party recognizes the right of writers to express themselves "în limbajul epocii noastre" ("in the language of our times"). WHOLE fucking dispute is EXACTLY over whether the ro pantsuits get to the-dreamers or don't get to the-dreamers ; and protestations of unawareness and "vhs america" are suddewnly extrehehehehemely w
1902948;1552673909;mircea_popescu;eak currency to rebuy this.
1902949;1552673943;mircea_popescu;the whole fucking thing was whether they get to follow the other sheep down the precipice or have to sit in the rancho.
1902950;1552675523;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in older failed republics: https://archive.is/lRDD6
1902951;1552675559;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: other 'graduates' of same derpublic : yarvin
1902952;1552675567;asciilifeform;sad '90s wankers.
1902953;1552675587;BingoBoingo;Sure, Sad almost 2020 wankers as well
1902954;1552675779;asciilifeform;( where yarvin ? e.g. here : https://archive.is/ouesj , https://archive.is/PDQC8 << originals wiped in '17, as if that does sumthing )
1902955;1552675845;asciilifeform;'We weren’t deliberately looking for hacking chops. It was very much about personality and writing, really.' <<  'rezistenta prin cultura'(tm)(r)!
1902956;1552675981;mircea_popescu;keks, empire still hard at work secreting imaginary effigies of the republic to "defeat" ?
1902957;1552676008;asciilifeform;that one afaik 100% 'defeated self', ~100% of the 'graduates' turned into yarvins of 1 kind or another
1902958;1552676070;mircea_popescu;there's no other kind of defeat lulz. miami etc.
1902959;1552676212;asciilifeform;e.g. 'The first in San Francisco was co-hosted by CDC member Adam O’Donnell, an entrepreneur and a security engineer at Cisco Systems, and Alex Stamos, then the chief security officer at Facebook ... Chris Wysopal, a L0pht veteran who founded tech company Veracode  ... Seattle fundraiser for the Senate race ... ' etc
1902960;1552676243;asciilifeform;mega-revolutionaries, lol
1902961;1552676283;asciilifeform;see also http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-31#817246 .
1902962;1552676283;a111;Logged on 2014-08-31 06:24 asciilifeform: i always use the term 'calmed down' for these people. starting from having played 'half life', where there is a scene of an einsteinesque white coated figure who gets an alien 'headcrab' jump on his head. it takes roots, he struggles for a while, then 'calms down' and ambles on as zombie.
1902963;1552677282;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902942 -> still digesting it, thank you; I started answering here and realised it should probably better go in the comments section so it'll go there.
1902964;1552677282;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 17:47 mircea_popescu: diana_coman ^ let me know if it satisfies.
1902965;1552686277;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in ancient "why foss sucks" and so on, http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/
1902966;1552686295;mircea_popescu;made slightly mroe interesting by it having been written before rather than after linus went dumb.
1902967;1552691506;trinque;mircea_popescu: I'm curious whether you're aware of Julian Jaynes. I'm not in a position to assign credit for who first said self-aware consciousness might not come naturally to humans, absent learning it from a parent at a critical age.
1902968;1552691558;trinque;whoever said it first, the hypothesis rings true, that consciousness is an arrangement of language in the skull which is by no means human birthright.
1902969;1552692216;BingoBoingo;I remember being 3 or 4 in the grocery store produce section and being struck with the awareness that my awareness is stuck in my head alone. That I couldn't bounce my awareness from head to head. There were some very Bush I era fat people and I very much wanted to will them stop eating for a few months.
1902970;1552698334;mircea_popescu;trinque http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/ do anything for you ?
1902971;1552707770;BingoBoingo;Great moments in Trilema comment history http://trilema.com/2013/the-anatomy-of-a-scam/#comment-94243
1902972;1552707932;mircea_popescu;keks
1902973;1552708728;mod6;Update here: Got the irc server built with the proper nick/topic lengths, also ratbox-services configured with the same.  Finally got the ratbox-services to connect successfully to the server, but I'm still doing minor config changes there.
1902974;1552708739;mod6;But looking good so far!
1902975;1552712439;mircea_popescu;did you get any of the networks to take your box ?
1902976;1552714954;mod6;Haven't tried.  Was thinking we might make our own net until gossipd, whenever that might be.
1902977;1552715134;mircea_popescu;not really been following the comments discussion huh.
1902978;1552715161;mircea_popescu;what are you, like immune to sense or something ?
1902979;1552715289;mod6;Oh, yeah, looks like I'm way behind on that article's comments.  I'll read up, stop wasting time.
1902980;1552753305;mircea_popescu;in other news, trilema is back to where comment section > article. only took a few years (though, tbh, i did kinda miss it).
1902981;1552756267;asciilifeform;guten tag mircea_popescu
1902982;1552756662;*;asciilifeform ate the quite compact log, back to writing room
1902983;1552760878;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/pierre-omidyar-stops-stalling-on-snowden-documents-instead-gives-up-and-shutters-access-declaring-case-closed/ << Qntra -- Pierre Omidyar Stops Stalling On Snowden Documents Instead Gives Up And Shutters Access Declaring "Case Closed"
1902984;1552770503;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in thermometers: https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Vazquez-saludo-el-aniversario-de-un-Batallon-de-Infanteria-y-nadie-aplaudio-su-discurso-uc712863
1902985;1552770541;BingoBoingo;"Mientras tanto, el comandante en jefe interino, Marcelo Montaner, fue consultado por la prensa sobre la relación del Ejército y Vázquez, a lo que dijo que no le corresponde responder, según recogió Telemundo."
1902986;1552776061;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/hate-strife-and-hate-strife-a-week-in-review/ << Qntra -- Hate, Strife, And Hate Strife: A Week In Review
1902987;1552777253;mircea_popescu;da femstate working out as well as usual.
1902988;1552777516;BingoBoingo;Indeed
1902989;1552791837;mircea_popescu;"We wonder, and some Hunter may express wonder like ours, when through wilderness where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace he meets some fragment, huge, and there stops to guess. What powerful but unrecorded race once dwelt in that annihilated place ?"
1902990;1552821065;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/ << bvt's backtrace -- Mes, Part 1: stage0
1902991;1552835143;mircea_popescu;bvt http://archive.is/febOU#selection-89.0-89.194 << are these people still active or is it basically ozymandias over there ?
1902992;1552835846;BingoBoingo;Found in the wild: http://archive.is/KZuJL#selection-1943.83-1943.229 "Someone from PornHub said that they were sick of the accusations that incest porn was a Jewish plot and also the owners of PornHub weren’t Jewish."
1902993;1552835879;BingoBoingo;Of course the reasonable explanation is that incest porn's likely popular because of the mommy centric lives of the masses
1902994;1552836353;mircea_popescu;i thought "incest porn" consisted mostly of daddy worship, "if he just stayed with us, i'd even suck his cock".
1902995;1552836389;BingoBoingo;That was until a couple years ago apparently
1902996;1552836494;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/febOU#selection-149.0-155.207 is precisely the example i was looking for in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900631
1902997;1552836494;a111;Logged on 2019-03-06 16:47 mircea_popescu: you know, you can run a ms dos box in a java environment emulated in javascript bytecode!!1
1902998;1552836512;mircea_popescu;and looky, logline #2mn is soon upon us!
1902999;1552836588;BingoBoingo;http://archive.is/SoP89 << The evidence (note "incest" returns no results. They term they respond to is "fauxcest")
1903000;1552836729;BingoBoingo;12 moms, 2 daddys, 2 aunts, 4 sisters
1903001;1552836804;mircea_popescu;i dunno that this is methodologically sound. so you've counted... online instances of statement of something on the basis of a serarch ?
1903002;1552836918;mircea_popescu;in ordine sparso : you have no good reason to suspect the search works (and plenty of reason to suspect it does not) ; you have no good reason to suspect objects returned have any countable relation to anything (for all you know "12 clones of the same 1 momstory") ; and you have no reason to suspect the mental process discussed would produce countable objects (is a herd of dependopotami ordering vanilla icecream proof they li
1903003;1552836918;mircea_popescu;ke it better than chocolate ? maybe they just think chocolate icecream fattens, so they DO NOT ORDER IT for that reason -- but also can't do w/o icecream, so... vanilla itis.)
1903004;1552836933;BingoBoingo;Well It's first page results, the promoted stuff. Dunno there's a methodologically sound way to investigate an SV trap
1903005;1552836946;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1903006;1552837001;BingoBoingo;Weak evidence, but apparently the people compiling the searches like mommy more than they like being daddy
1903007;1552837017;BingoBoingo;Could be forced meme, could be retardation
1903008;1552837053;mircea_popescu;or the psychological tension produced in their head by "please daddy, stay, i'll even suck your cock!!!" vs "what, are you a faggot ?!" gets them to scapegoat the evil dumb bitch whose whole fault he left it is in the first place.
1903009;1552837104;mircea_popescu;i can't conceptualize pure oedipian complex of raw-raw-ima-fuck-ma without the other trappings. soft, female-emulating kids are NOT oedipian, because can not be.
1903010;1552837104;BingoBoingo;Or a way of coping with daddy leaving by trying to be just as good without having the good sense to leave
1903011;1552837179;BingoBoingo;Maybe they don't understand what the fuck fucking is, and "just want to" really love mom?
1903012;1552837191;mircea_popescu;now this is a possible alternative.
1903013;1552837228;BingoBoingo;Or the alienation angle. They want to REALLY by loved by a loving mom, and not have that cold bitch keeping them down
1903014;1552837309;BingoBoingo;Could also be the Indian kids watching because they suspect an old blonde is easier to imagine themselves bagging.
1903015;1552837343;mircea_popescu;matches well that group of "transsexuals" who evidently enough are so preoccupied with cunt, they just want one of their own. about as "transsexual" as the compulsive gambler who buys himself a slot machine for his "den" is "transeconomic",
1903016;1552837395;BingoBoingo;The intense decoupling of ideas and reality opens up a lot of weirdspace
1903017;1552837408;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo there's this very strong "send us your fat, your old, your ugly women [with divorce settlements" blowqing all over arab lands, for 3decade+ by now.
1903018;1552837419;BingoBoingo;AHA
1903019;1552837448;mircea_popescu;s/blowqing/wind blowing/
1903020;1552837798;*;BingoBoingo read NZ "ecofascist" thing last night. Very light reading. Other than the clash of cultures butthurt dude very much profiles as a Pantsuitist.
1903021;1552837834;mircea_popescu;there's really not so much possibility of independent thought outside. manalone ain't got what it takes to compete.
1903022;1552837892;mircea_popescu;sooner or later, will be found copy/pasting "really well chosen" bits of wikipedia, as per [http://trilema.com/2010/nsfw-mosu-cu-joarda/#selection-27.0-31.112][that old lolz].
1903023;1552837935;mircea_popescu;(douchebag there splattered STILL hasn't gotten over the simple fact that no, ~he~'s not good enough lels)
1903024;1552838476;BingoBoingo;Or this one http://trilema.com/2014/klye-or-confession-of-a-degenerate-adnotated/#selection-57.0-95.113
1903025;1552838542;mircea_popescu;lmao
1903026;1552838554;mircea_popescu;ahahahaha i had even forgotten this lulzpile
1903027;1552838577;mircea_popescu;"KLYE: Hahaha, The thing about whores MP is they are not easily summon-able. Hard to get them over (let alone all of them in one room) and an absolute bastard to get them to leave once they are here.. :P"
1903028;1552838584;BingoBoingo;Was back when Dooglus had taken over the gambling space with one of the few Honest forum investments
1903029;1552838610;mircea_popescu;he's telling me what "the thing about whores is". and it sounds just like the thing about girlfriends, the oneofwhich is away "at school".
1903030;1552838632;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo yeah, that dood made some terrible choices in his life, didn't he.
1903031;1552838656;BingoBoingo;he HAD a firmer grip on the space than Erik did
1903032;1552838662;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo do you happen to remember which trilema article explains the pantsuit attack on functioning systems, "1. expand franchise to include morons" ?
1903033;1552838676;BingoBoingo;gimme a minute
1903034;1552838747;Mocky;greetings mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo
1903035;1552838755;mircea_popescu;how goes it mockster ?
1903036;1552838774;BingoBoingo;Greetings Mocky
1903037;1552838817;Mocky;it goes well, getting my blog moved over to mp-wp. finding a 2.7 compatible theme
1903038;1552838973;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1902994 << I thought incest porn consisted mostly of boys unable to talk to girls fantasizing about fucking anything already stuck in the same house
1903039;1552838973;a111;Logged on 2019-03-17 15:25 mircea_popescu: i thought "incest porn" consisted mostly of daddy worship, "if he just stayed with us, i'd even suck his cock".
1903040;1552838990;mircea_popescu;Mocky i do not credit that theory.
1903041;1552839159;mircea_popescu;what exactly do you imagine is the difference of satisfaction between "boy unable to talk to girls" who gets to see any priss' naked ass whenever he can summon the interest looking at such ass and talking to a girl ? what, that he can make mortgage and alimony payments in the latter case ? let's not get ridiculous, porn thoroughly resolved any sexual interest of the young male, and much better than reality could ever hope to
1903042;1552839159;mircea_popescu;compete. which is why the plaintive whine of the fappened girls was that "they have to take naked pics, like it or not, it's the minimal bar to compete on the sexual market".
1903043;1552839173;mircea_popescu;it is, of course. da fuck does the kid care.
1903044;1552839298;mircea_popescu;those boys who "can't talk to girls" could talk to girls just fine -- but they don't perceive it pays. correctly, because it doesn't. (much like the ~same boys come here refuse to talk to the outside, because they naively extend what worked for them irl -- except here, it doesn't, there's not gonna be a pizarro withou talking to the scary outside, nor is there gonna be a "trilema irc" other than by people federating servers i
1903045;1552839299;mircea_popescu;n other networks, and so fucxking following)
1903046;1552839316;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> it goes well, getting my blog moved over to mp-wp. finding a 2.7 compatible theme << The default chops up rather nicely
1903047;1552839518;Mocky;mircea_popescu: how does that idea support the daddy worship view?
1903048;1552839547;mircea_popescu;i don't know that it supports it ; i believe it entirely sinks any possibility of the alternative you present holding though.
1903049;1552839629;mircea_popescu;(not that it's the only avenue, either. plenty available -- for one thing, contemporary mother will probably very much put out, even if maybe not for her own son, for amanda's two streets down. they could have the old airman's wife club, if they cared to. they do not care to.)
1903050;1552839708;Mocky;sure but what's porn got to do with what contemporary mother will actually do?
1903051;1552839713;*;mircea_popescu is of the belief that http://trilema.com/2014/ken-park/ is period-accurate ethnological notation as to family life and sexual mores in just-about-to-disappear america.
1903052;1552839814;mircea_popescu;Mocky let me write that sentence down again, i suspect it suffers in notation.
1903053;1552839815;mircea_popescu;1. admitting there is such a thing as a "boy unable to talk to girls", 2. you are stuck admitting that this same boy can nevertheless look at any piece of ass he wants, as proven by the social media event known as "the fappening", 3. in which case you are left to somehow introduce a putative difference of satisfaction, between doing just that and talking to girls -- 4. because i tell you i don't see it.
1903054;1552840283;mircea_popescu;ie, that exemplary boy would not be bothered to fuck his mother even if [http://trilema.com/2013/attention-cunt/][she were right there spreading an' begging for it] (something we suspect her just about desperate enough to actually do, by now), on account of the much more interesting happenings on the screen. in which case, it's strictly impossible an oedipian complex is driving him.
1903055;1552840371;Mocky;how can there be a difference for fap bois getting 'satisfaction' from porn, and the statisfaction from something which they can't bring themselves to do, ever?
1903056;1552840407;mircea_popescu;this is like asking me "how can there be a difference between chewing risotto and chewing concrete -- i never could bring myself to try chewing concrete"
1903057;1552840432;mircea_popescu;perhaps there's a reason for the latter ? you want to propose people chew concrete, you gotta come up with ~SOME~ theory as to why it'd be good.
1903058;1552840498;mircea_popescu;what'd the boy get, if he put down the fap-pad and talked to little miss sunshine two doors down ? less satisfying sex than his own hand can provide and mortgage payments, what else ?
1903059;1552840516;Mocky;how's he to know that?
1903060;1552840547;Mocky;he know's he's alone and never getting laid
1903061;1552840603;mircea_popescu;this 1990s-era theory whereby "the poor onanist, missing out on cheese for chewing the rinds" was, perhaps, defensible then.
1903062;1552840647;mircea_popescu;whatever rando teen can encounter on his own horsepower is not only not worth putting down the fap-pad, but is SO SHOCKINGLY BELOW that standard it overwhelms his (admittedly limited) mathematical powers. it's strictly irrepresentably bad.
1903063;1552840705;mircea_popescu;consider that my productivity is measured in the parts per MILLION, and these millions are already EXTREMELY heavily selected for unelective properties, and then think of the sophisitcation of the machinery working that conversion rate. you think joe-from-suburbia can match any of this ? how.
1903064;1552840778;mircea_popescu;and don't fucking tell me that "but oh mp, among the vast fields of females under 25, there's a few parts per million for everyone!! you find yours, they find theirs" bs. i take ~anything that moves.
1903065;1552840821;Mocky;no, i agree it won't be worth putting it down. but it's not like they are fed up with chix and are now like, 'might as well porn.' they never had the chix and fantasize of the real thing
1903066;1552840830;mircea_popescu;how do you know ?
1903067;1552840857;mircea_popescu;the devil himself knows not the mind of man, yet mocky can tell by some pixels ? WHAT PIXELS!!! is all i'm trying to get out of you, show me 'em.
1903068;1552840920;Mocky;i'm generalizing from people i have met, and how they would shit themselves before walking up to a girl.
1903069;1552841002;mircea_popescu;so far, the theory here articulates "1. the incest porn can't be odepian-fueled because 2. the only possible perception of his own mother is as a lesser teenage goat which 3. he can't be bothered with the better ones, why the fuck would he be interested in the lesser ones not to mention 4. if he actually was in the slightest interested, us suburban life would likely consist of the boys gangbanging the wives after schoo, "thur
1903070;1552841002;mircea_popescu;sday means joes' mom sucks us all off."
1903071;1552841059;mircea_popescu;oedipian*
1903072;1552841108;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo do you happen to remember which trilema article explains the pantsuit attack on functioning systems, "1. expand franchise to include morons" ? << http://trilema.com/2018/incursion-in-classical-pantsuit-discourse/#selection-181.0-201.0
1903073;1552841139;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo this says the thing, but isn't the one i had in mind ;/
1903074;1552841177;mircea_popescu;the one i had in mind specifically discusses the matter from the perspective of pantsuit attacking traditional system, by expanding the franchise thus lowering the average quality of the participant thus undermining the defensible functioning of traditional institutions.
1903075;1552841423;Mocky;mircea_popescu: seems to me that 1. the incest porn is anxiety fueled because 2. he is surounded by chix he'll never approach and he know's he never will 3. the fanasy porn where mom / sister seduces ~him~ lets him imagine getting laid without the burden of trying to be an agent
1903076;1552841534;mircea_popescu;sounds more like laziness driven, but i guess this is also a perfectly workable scheme (and, anthropologically, the actual driver of actual incest in the sort of isolated communities where it happens, ozarks, switzerland & co.)
1903077;1552841581;mircea_popescu;for lulz : i suppose everyone is aware that the word cretin is the byproduct of euphemism threadmill, dood was trying to introduce the word "christian" ("cretien") to discuss the deeply retarded inhabitants of small isolated villages up in the alps.
1903078;1552841672;mircea_popescu;Mocky the only problem i see is that if this were true, it'd be the sisters, not the mothers. and there's actually an "unknown" (because pantsuit media ignores, so that matters, hurr) interest group pushing for raising the legal ban on this. they even have a whole rational argument, "since anticonceptionals..."
1903079;1552841701;mircea_popescu;i expect they'll succeed after the potheads and before the pedos, ~same chances as the dog-and-pony fuckers.
1903080;1552841883;Mocky;i expect equal part laziness. I'd also expect the sisters and not the mothers
1903081;1552841894;mircea_popescu;(the important thing the amateur freudian is to keep in mind is that the "universal" quality pretended to the framework is not universal at all -- but very speciffic to the time and place, the setting, tired imperial vienna. in different conditions -- same breakage can take different forms)
1903082;1552842117;mircea_popescu;anyway, BingoBoingo 's theory can also be constructed into a third possible explanation : VHS america for a new generation, "they're so loose there, so '''freee''', sons even fuck their mothers!!!" thinks 19yo [http://trilema.com/2017/3-idiots-in-preference-of-saying-indians-are-cognitively-impaired-for-reason-of-genetic-inferiority/][chowdry rasmadumberthanrockes] while wanking it in glee.
1903083;1552842156;mircea_popescu;considering there's more kids in india trying to get / having recently gotten into us colleges than there's kids in the us jacking off, one could readily explain pornhub elements on this cultural driver.
1903084;1552842297;mircea_popescu;there's a lot of this exogenous porn. the whole trope of "[http://trilema.com/2015/racists-and-the-racist-idea/][blacks supremacy porn]" is ~entirely white male interest item. no depiction of a female elf in a classic mmorpg was made to appeal to females. and so following.
1903085;1552843155;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in trilema excavations, http://trilema.com/2010/rottencom/ << anyone remember the item ? sorta early www bbs
1903086;1552844785;*;asciilifeform still in writing mode
1903087;1552844814;asciilifeform;but cannot resist to ask mircea_popescu -- i thought sisterfucking required some seriously nonstandard brain miswire . neh ?
1903088;1552844831;mircea_popescu;actually doing it or jacking off to pictures labeled thusly ?
1903089;1552844842;asciilifeform;doing, in anger
1903090;1552844851;mircea_popescu;as far as we know, yeah.
1903091;1552844892;mircea_popescu;i dunno it's ever done in anger ; afaik it's a process of wholy vegetable male, where cock gets hard but eyes stay vacant. the female will mount it eventually, because the female will mount what she has available.
1903092;1552844938;asciilifeform;well fourlegged critters will happily fuck anyffing, i expect it's an extention of that, rear brain worx , front brain unplugged
1903093;1552844969;mircea_popescu;sister-brother fucking is, to my knowledge, just about never male-driven.
1903094;1552845000;*;asciilifeform never directly witnessed subj, will have to buy
1903095;1552845032;mircea_popescu;father-daughter is male driven. (son-mother is very much discussed but actually rarer than pixie dust)
1903096;1552845046;asciilifeform;blame greeks
1903097;1552845068;mircea_popescu;actually, thjis is adaptative.
1903098;1552845089;mircea_popescu;yes there's a biological cost to endogamy. however, there's also a biological cost to eschewing the dominant male.
1903099;1552845104;mircea_popescu;if they're close, father-daugther fucking becomes biologically free option.
1903100;1552845312;mircea_popescu;(this also explains why son-mother so rare : there's two manners of human accuplation, type 1 as in missionary sex, where the female tries to hold on to a dominant male for child support and type 2 as in she's walking side by side holding dominant male's hand but turns her ass so cadet male can fuck her on the quiet. type 2 maintains as a behaviour because it produces diversity -- it's for instance the principal driver of pen
1903101;1552845312;mircea_popescu;ile size. this would be the mode of son-mother, and guess what, it fails in its only promise, no diversity there. so... absent in practice.)
1903102;1552847719;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo found it btw, it was http://trilema.com/2018/the-stupidity-ratchet/
1903103;1552848526;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/febOU#selection-232.8-255.136 << this shit's fucking hysterical.
1903104;1552848608;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/lets-look-at-the-mechanism-of-decay/ << Trilema -- Let's look at the mechanism of decay
1903105;1552848858;mircea_popescu;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-205.0-205.108 << i agree with this, and must confess i'm quite impressed.
1903106;1552848920;mircea_popescu;IMO it makes no sense adopting the VM, given that apparently mips.v7 will be the republican CPU architecture on ice40. << i very much not agree ; much too soon to standardize this.
1903107;1552849179;billymg;hiya trilema
1903108;1552849222;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: entirely too soon. i'm not convinced that we want the flaglessness, for instance (mips buys with it , the pipeline, but do we even want pipeline)
1903109;1552849766;mircea_popescu;aha
1903110;1552849770;mircea_popescu;hello billymg
1903111;1552849799;billymg;i was finally able to get back to some mp-wp work this weekend, with the focus of ripping out unnecessary LOC. after some time getting oriented again it took a few hours to remove ~5k lines just from some "google gears" thing and various "importers" for importing posts from other platforms
1903112;1552849850;billymg;i think there's another order of magnitude lines of LOC that can be removed similarly, but i thought i'd check and see what features should _not_ be removed
1903113;1552849931;billymg;for example, the "wysiwyg" editor, tinymce, that is packaged with wordpress. do any of the current mp-wp users use this? i personally edit in the raw-html input for posts
1903114;1552849941;mircea_popescu;nobody gives a shit about "ease of use" in that sense, only way to import into mp-wp is via flatfile anyway. so knock yourself out with all that.
1903115;1552849950;billymg;awesome!
1903116;1552849955;mircea_popescu;billymg i also edit in the raw html.
1903117;1552849970;mircea_popescu;however -- i do use the image inserter. and afaik that is tinymce powered. hanbot ?
1903118;1552849975;billymg;cool, and that's a pretty hefty library
1903119;1552849988;billymg;ah
1903120;1552850056;billymg;i can investigate. assuming image uploading/linking can be handled without tinymce, but still within wp-admin, would tinymce still be needed?
1903121;1552850312;hanbot;mircea_popescu as far as i can tell image insertion dosen't actually rely on tinymce, though there may well be a snaggletooth of it in the php scripts therein somewhere. unhelpfully enough, "i don't think so, but i wouldn't wanna swear".
1903122;1552850312;lobbesbot;hanbot: Sent 6 days, 0 hours, and 25 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3YS3U/?raw=true
1903123;1552850337;billymg;to describe my overall thinking/strategy with mp-wp, i would like to 1) rip out everything not absolutely necessary for the basic functions of blogging/moderating 2) after arriving at the bare minimum, fit what's left in my head to then evaluate ways to simplify/improve/rewrite
1903124;1552850349;hanbot;anyway fwiw i dun use and see no use for the wysiwyg editor thingamajig otherwise.
1903125;1552850369;billymg;as sort of a backwards way to arrive at http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892247
1903126;1552850369;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 12:54 spyked: more generally: although I've been tempted to switch to mp-wp, I'm still hoping to grow the current thetarpit code base into a minimal cl-based mp-wp-like blogotron. I'ma also put a genesis on the todo list.
1903127;1552850420;billymg;hanbot: that's encouraging, ty
1903128;1552850442;mircea_popescu;billymg not really useful for anything else afaik, and i wouldn't mind it going.
1903129;1552850463;mircea_popescu;but the described methodology is sound.
1903130;1552850491;mircea_popescu;if you get it ready to testing, you can either talk with BingoBoingo to install it somewhere or install it yourself, i'll testrun and definitely let you know if anything broke my flow.
1903131;1552850596;billymg;ok sounds good
1903132;1552851138;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo found it btw, it was http://trilema.com/2018/the-stupidity-ratchet/ << For somereason thought you wanted an older one and there were so many that came close
1903133;1552852872;mircea_popescu;aha!
1903134;1552854611;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3134 << Loper OS -- Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 17: Introduction to Peh.
1903135;1552854615;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf plz snarf ch17 : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3134 , ty
1903136;1552854615;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1903137;1552854896;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1903138;1552855369;shinohai;Nice handy chart asciilifeform
1903139;1552857568;BingoBoingo;And never forget:
1903140;1552857572;BingoBoingo;;;goxlag
1903141;1552860120;asciilifeform;shinohai: i am pleased that you like it, but must note that if you had read ch13-16 , would have already seen most of it before..
1903142;1552860973;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-november-and-december-1715-part-v/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of November and December, 1715. - Part V.
1903143;1552860976;feedbot;http://thewhet.net/2019/03/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-iv/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part IV
1903144;1552865905;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-16#1902970 << indeed! quite a summary. ben_vulpes pointed me at that tome.
1903145;1552865905;a111;Logged on 2019-03-16 01:05 mircea_popescu: trinque http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/ do anything for you ?
1903146;1552867039;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/turkeys-erdogan-called-out-in-manifesto-by-eco-terrorist-brenton-tarrant-using-attack-footage-in-campaign-rallies/ << Qntra -- Turkey's Erdogan, Called Out In Manifesto By Eco-Terrorist Brenton Tarrant, Using Attack Footage In Campaign Rallies
1903147;1552868041;mircea_popescu;usb_net_drivers - alf conf says n, options are only y or m, default is y. << heh.
1903148;1552868292;mircea_popescu;oh an' looky, CRYPTO_ECHAINIV. http://archive.is/BZZSu for the lulz.
1903149;1552868306;mircea_popescu;hanbot this was actually a most useful an productive exercise tyvm.
1903150;1552868499;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my ( dulap & rk ) trees, eat 'n' re subj w/out choking
1903151;1552868535;asciilifeform;the 'mandatory for yer own good' of usb nic must be quite recent.
1903152;1552868554;asciilifeform;and may be worth the bother to find perpetrator and name ftr.
1903153;1552868885;trinque;it's able to be N over here. "selected by" : USB_NET_RNDIS_WLAN [=n] && NETDEVICES [=y] && WLAN [=y] && USB [=y] && CFG80211 [=y]
1903154;1552868912;trinque;menuconfig search and help are the tools to figure this kind of thing out.
1903155;1552872686;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm curious wtf aes is doing in the kernel.
1903156;1552873022;asciilifeform;trinque: any idea whether there is a www-navigable map of these anywhere ? ( a la ye olde trb flow graph 'wish item' ) ?
1903157;1552873054;asciilifeform;^ would be a primo kernel-cleansing aid, imho, if anyone has a free hand
1903158;1552876205;*;asciilifeform clears chalkboard for ch18...
1903159;1552884568;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform myeah.
1903160;1552922457;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in misc. lulz, http://qntra.net/2019/03/hate-strife-and-hate-strife-a-week-in-review/#comment-125935
1903161;1552922557;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1902996 << whole thing imho interesting.
1903162;1552922557;a111;Logged on 2019-03-17 15:28 mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/febOU#selection-149.0-155.207 is precisely the example i was looking for in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900631
1903163;1552922590;asciilifeform;http://archive.is/febOU#selection-113.0-119.197 << asciilifeform picked up 'jonesforth' ~decade ago, and barfed from this very thing
1903164;1552922628;asciilifeform;( it's entirely ok as illustration of forthism, but absolutely terrible from 'bootstrap' pov , for the reason described in linked piece )
1903165;1552922735;asciilifeform;http://archive.is/febOU#selection-207.0-207.164 << imho if a lang is intrinsically difficult to bootstrap, it (and/or ~the iron~ chosen for the attempt) is thereby defective.
1903166;1552922826;asciilifeform;( see e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897834 thread )
1903167;1552922826;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 23:49 asciilifeform: if we had a sane iron, would be similarly easy to produce a back end ( and that's what asciilifeform thinks of as 'ada machine' )
1903168;1552923073;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform whole thing interesting indeed.
1903169;1552923079;mircea_popescu;bvt is the author still alive btw ?
1903170;1552923116;asciilifeform;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-29.94-29.340 << imho ~100% of the attempts on record , made exactly same mistake -- they assumed that 'architecture-specific aspects creep into the design of the boostrapping process' only concerns ~what is there~ in the arch, and not ~what is not there~ (e.g. sane memory management, type tags) . if you dun put the complexity of certain necessary sanities where it belongs -- i
1903171;1552923117;asciilifeform;n iron -- you get 9000x the mass later.
1903172;1552923142;asciilifeform;picture if i had made ffa deal in 32bit words, and then proclaimed 'implement bignum on that'. do you imagine the result would be in any sense 'fits in head' ?
1903173;1552923200;mircea_popescu;this is very much a point.
1903174;1552923203;asciilifeform;all of these folx, afaik, do ~exact same thing, they take the school cpu from their kindergarten textbook and proclaim 'hey this fits in head, let's bootstrap on it'
1903175;1552923219;asciilifeform;the result is ~always~ a massive ball o'shit ~later~
1903176;1552923226;asciilifeform;but author rarely cares to think about 'later'
1903177;1552923670;asciilifeform;the notion that 'all irons are the same' , while correct in a narrow mathematical sense , has done a good bit of damage . arguably turned entire field into garbage, at that.
1903178;1552923681;bvt;hello
1903179;1552923702;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1902991 << as far as the 'stage0' is concerned, there is one guy manaloneing (OriansJ in #bootstrappable), and a dozen of people watching. can't say anything about 'mes' yet, it has a different author.
1903180;1552923702;a111;Logged on 2019-03-17 15:05 mircea_popescu: bvt http://archive.is/febOU#selection-89.0-89.194 << are these people still active or is it basically ozymandias over there ?
1903181;1552923743;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1903106 << i also agree that it is; i don't find myself knowledgable enough to make a decision on the republican cpu architecture, but for bootstrapping using ice40 with its limited resources a simple mips core sounded fitting.
1903182;1552923743;a111;Logged on 2019-03-17 18:55 mircea_popescu: IMO it makes no sense adopting the VM, given that apparently mips.v7 will be the republican CPU architecture on ice40. << i very much not agree ; much too soon to standardize this.
1903183;1552923772;asciilifeform;( on the other end of the barf -- picture, C is what they want to bootstrap. because somehow can have sanity while preserving GB of pointerfandangoandcrashlang in the stack, somehow . )
1903184;1552923879;asciilifeform;i suspect that the 'let's bootstrap c' thing comes from a narrow fixation on thompsonism to the exclusion of the other 9000 leprosies of the pdp age.
1903185;1552923951;bvt;asciilifeform: yes, this is a problem; for example, their x86_64 hex0-2, as little sense as this can make (in presence of intel me&etc), are done as linux binaries: currently their goal is to bootstrap linux
1903186;1552923963;asciilifeform;pretty sad imho.
1903187;1552923992;asciilifeform;i.e. to go through the sweat of building an arch, only to then plant kernighan and poettering on top again.
1903188;1552924110;bvt;otoh, author did mention that most of the tools can be easily made to work on e.g. dos
1903189;1552924144;asciilifeform;bvt: was this 'can' accompanied by a 'did' ?
1903190;1552924195;bvt;nope, it's not 'did' even for linux; this work is in WIP, not even alpha stage.
1903191;1552924222;bvt;it's just that if components fit in head, imo alpha/beta does not apply
1903192;1552924233;asciilifeform;characteristically of people who set out to solve the Wrong Problem , they will trip over own feet 9000 times and learn 0
1903193;1552924386;bvt;well, the question is then, whether we want to do this for cuntoo -- this work will need some resources dedicated to it.
1903194;1552924434;asciilifeform;i cannot speak for others, but from my pov cuntoo is a wartime t34 , and defo not something i like to picture myself using 20y from nao
1903195;1552924441;asciilifeform;( or for that matter any other unix, ditto )
1903196;1552924480;bvt;i.e. finishing stage0/mes integration, and also there is a problem of bootstrapping gnat
1903197;1552924516;asciilifeform;( ditto gnat. the troo adatron would be a ~50kloc bolix-style ada on sane iron support, rather than crusty old gnat )
1903198;1552924579;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> i cannot speak for others, but from my pov cuntoo is a wartime t34 , and defo not something i like to picture myself using 20y from nao << Someone's probably sealing Cuntoo'd devices in cement within 5 years
1903199;1552924687;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i know for a fact that there exist pdp8 in actual cement, last i knew still processing inputs . so it aint entirely out of the question.
1903200;1552924724;asciilifeform;imho nuffin linus et al shat out rises to anywhere near the level you'd want for this, but again 'you go to war with army you have'(tm)(r) etc
1903201;1552924766;BingoBoingo;A lot of questions are very very open, but cement is one of the cheaper ingredients in the seal in cement formula.
1903202;1552924800;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, even ~this~ is trickier than you think -- ordinary cement ( and epoxies as well ) cure exothermically
1903203;1552924808;asciilifeform;and tend to bake semiconductor
1903204;1552924824;*;asciilifeform has a jar of non-exothermic epoxy for potting electronics, it aint cheap
1903205;1552924890;BingoBoingo;Sure, this is why concrete dust is such a hazard to have uncontained.
1903206;1552924902;asciilifeform;mno this aint why
1903207;1552924911;BingoBoingo;Well, burn hazard
1903208;1552924916;asciilifeform;concrete dust (like all combustible dusts) is a 'fuel-air' boom
1903209;1552924943;BingoBoingo;That's just a more dramatic mode of being a burn hazard
1903210;1552924964;asciilifeform;old sovok practicaljoak -- shake out bag of flour in a room, then leave the light bulb with filament sans glass
1903211;1552925022;BingoBoingo;If they Uruguayos had humor and lightbulbs they could try as well.
1903212;1552925963;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/03/18/pizarro-isp-march-18th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP March 18th Update
1903213;1552925983;asciilifeform;consider the not-uninteresting fact, that on 370,000-transistor bolix, ada was 50kloc ; while on 3bil+-transistor x86, ada (gnat cum gcc cum deps) is , what, 1mil+ ? and their kernel was iirc ~50kloc, while ours...
1903214;1552926008;asciilifeform;and it aint even necessary to saw open a bolix to see why this was. they didn't have to have a did_machine_do_what_i_said(...) after ~erry line.
1903215;1552926019;asciilifeform;nor a does_this_pointer_point_to_hell() , etc
1903216;1552926503;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ffa is 3 ch away from fieldable beta atm ; so in attempt to avoid ending up like mod6 , i'm currently 100% in it. afterwards will switch for a spell to 100% elbows in piz.
1903217;1552926598;asciilifeform;( to be pedantic -- peh. ffa proper , is imho done, unless a reader finds apeloyee-style 'here's where you could have 2x faster' thing )
1903218;1552926666;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Cool. Once the test subject gets here I'll start working on learning Cuntoo through practice.
1903219;1552926670;asciilifeform;if someone thinks he needs a ~number-theoretical~ knob that 1) is missing in current ffa 2) cannot be efficiently baked out of the primitives -- he had better speak up soon.
1903220;1552926703;asciilifeform;( ideally i could rule out the existence of such thing as a class, but alas cannot )
1903221;1552926779;asciilifeform;the knobs still on conveyor are -- subroutines; hash ; constant-time table lookups. that's it.
1903222;1552926893;asciilifeform;asmism , i consider a luxury -- ffa is designed to operate reasonably quickly on commonplace iron without it.
1903223;1552927618;asciilifeform;in other lulz, karpeles walks.
1903224;1552927631;asciilifeform;'suspended sentence'
1903225;1552927916;BingoBoingo;I'm trying to figure out a way to frame Fat Mark's walk as news.
1903226;1552927945;asciilifeform;it aint a mega-surprise, imho, which is wai imho it merits 1ln in l0gz but not entire dispatch.
1903227;1552927967;asciilifeform;( tho if BingoBoingo writes the latter, i'ma read )
1903228;1552927980;BingoBoingo;Well, he's also locked into it with some other derps, both groups wanting to resurrect a MtGox
1903229;1552928014;asciilifeform;lol wainot also resurrect 'west indies co' and 'savings & loan' etc
1903230;1552928044;BingoBoingo;And I'm not seeing any motive to revive the toxic MtGox brand other than psyop value "Look at those Buttcoiners forgiving the scamzor"
1903231;1552928046;asciilifeform;and kpss.
1903232;1552928097;asciilifeform;i suppose there is a 'no such thing as bad publicity' school of 'thought'...
1903233;1552931508;BingoBoingo;In locals almost, but not quite getting it http://archive.is/o6wvu
1903234;1552931809;BingoBoingo;And in other tales of Chorros Uruguayos: "Interrogado sobre lo ocurrido, admitió su responsabilidad, pero aseguró que el siniestro había sido accidental. En su declaración explicó que su intención era robar el combustible de la moto, y en medo de la oscuridad intentó ayudarse haciendo luz con un encendedor. Como resultado, el combustible ardió y la moto fue consumida. Además, el ladrón sufrió quemaduras en manos y pies."
1903235;1552931853;asciilifeform;lol!
1903236;1552932141;BingoBoingo;Note "robar el combustible" is a common sort of venerated trabajo among Mujica voters
1903237;1552932198;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: do they have those fancy locking tank caps like in '90s ru ? or notyet
1903238;1552932318;BingoBoingo;I've not seen many
1903239;1552932379;BingoBoingo;This neighborhood's trash is apparently good enough to keep the demographic from taking the risk with gasoline theft here.
1903240;1552932430;BingoBoingo;Not usually police risk, but risk of other bums "Don't ruin a good thing retard"
1903241;1552933586;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/us-air-base-home-to-stratcom-hit-by-river-flooding/ << Qntra -- US Air Base Home To STRATCOM Hit By River Flooding
1903242;1552936617;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1903082 << discussion in teh haremobile meanwhile excavated a 4th possible line of reasoning, "the perversity of human nature, can only do something when it's not what's supposed to be done -- then and then only is it ok." witness all the kids going to college to party (that's not what it's for, which is what makes it ok).
1903243;1552936617;a111;Logged on 2019-03-17 17:01 mircea_popescu: anyway, BingoBoingo 's theory can also be constructed into a third possible explanation : VHS america for a new generation, "they're so loose there, so '''freee''', sons even fuck their mothers!!!" thinks 19yo [http://trilema.com/2017/3-idiots-in-preference-of-saying-indians-are-cognitively-impaired-for-reason-of-genetic-inferiority/][chowdry rasmadumberthanrockes] while wanking it in glee.
1903244;1552936643;BingoBoingo;That's a very live possibility
1903245;1552937062;asciilifeform;there was an old mircea_popescu piece where 'the french set up elaborate system for fucking each other's wives' etc
1903246;1552937592;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo do i win the prize for lengthiest trilema comment ?
1903247;1552937625;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so did the airmen of the 50s. prior to the [http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/][clinton putsch].
1903248;1552937678;asciilifeform;i recall
1903249;1552937837;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: It appears to be the winner on Qntra as far as comments that didn't get spammed. Some of the spams stretch on and on with links to nowhere.
1903250;1552937894;mircea_popescu;a yeah. cool!
1903251;1552937919;*;mircea_popescu meant qntra, said trilema...
1903252;1552937949;BingoBoingo;Well, habit
1903253;1552938170;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, doesn't "offut" look like a misspelling ?
1903254;1552938207;BingoBoingo;4srs
1903255;1552938265;BingoBoingo;But, that corner is/was Nordic US, I don't think it got to participate much in the America days of the colonies
1903256;1552938930;mircea_popescu;guess not.
1903257;1552939026;BingoBoingo;Buncha sad Swedes and other Nordics building apartments in their barns and living in that arrangement until Rooseveltism disrupted them.
1903258;1552940131;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit older unrelateds , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902888 >> will be also 256 permissible subroutines, unless mircea_popescu et al disagree
1903259;1552940131;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 15:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think 256 is perfectly defensible. should be obvious what knob to twiddle for less or more anyway, admitting either one's trying to make ffa fit into tiny embed or use it for who knows what unforeseen purpose on large machines.
1903260;1552940186;mircea_popescu;this sort of thing can't be well answered without practice anyway. if it needs revisiting, it'll be revisited under the pressure of all these people using all these hundreds of sub clals.
1903261;1552940212;asciilifeform;( this is the last param to be put to this q, where walk b/w 'scylla' of magicnumberism and 'charybdis' of unknownramfootprintism )
1903262;1552940282;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho nuffin pertaining to publickey crypto has any fucking biznis containing anywhere near 256 routines
1903263;1552940363;asciilifeform;and sure will be revisited if it had to be . but i try and presently fail to come up with a scenario where it oughta be, rather than answer of 'take braindamaged pubkey that needs 257 routines somewhere else, ty'
1903264;1552940547;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1903265;1552944810;asciilifeform;for thread-completeness : 'peh' has exactly 50 subroutines ( 37 procedures, 13 functions ) ; ffa : 245 ( 166 procedures , 79 functions ) .
1903266;1552944839;asciilifeform;this is counting i/o glue and errything .
1903267;1552944857;asciilifeform;( and subs internal to subs, permitted in ada planet just as they are in pascal )
1903268;1552950653;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron dood, the sort of lukewarm morons you're "contending" with...
1903269;1552950663;mircea_popescu;really, doesn't teh superficial idiocy of it all grate you any ?
1903270;1552950726;danielpbarron;yes
1903271;1552950941;mircea_popescu;it's like dealing with [what i remember to be 12yo boys]. "oh, bitcoin, yeah, i remember, all i bought was a single pizza. biggest regret!!!".
1903272;1552951100;mircea_popescu;prior to this, my icon of such boyish idiocy would have been this chatlog from sometime around the first iraq war, where some kid literally pretended to be teleporting himself over there for half an hour or somesuch. because you know, he's such a debonair cool dude and all, the coming together of cellphone trend and "working for cia" trend in a thick sauce of general cluelessness.
1903273;1552951141;mircea_popescu;i suppose now this can take over, on the grounds that at least it's linkable. just as fucking iconic at any rate.
1903274;1552951231;mircea_popescu;after all, previous one took over on account of being public, from the even earlier [http://trilema.com/2010/extemporal-la-venerologie/#comment-33269][private equivalent].
1903275;1552954659;asciilifeform;in unrelated 'for laters' noose, asciilifeform got hold of 2 moar 'ivory' cpus (brings total # of samples in asciilifeform's house o'horrors to 5 )
1903276;1552954710;asciilifeform;lulzily, i ended up with 3 having consecutive (hand-written, in ancient ink) serial #s.
1903277;1552955200;mircea_popescu;heh
1903278;1552955615;asciilifeform;teleporting himself << lol!! oblig : http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895439
1903279;1552955615;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 15:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i associate shitoverflow with articles like 'how do i cast 'fireball' in real life?' ( actual find )
1903280;1552955652;mircea_popescu;im sorry i wasn't more documentary minded at the time, and so item was regrettably lost.
1903281;1552955655;mircea_popescu;but it was something else.
1903282;1552955663;*;asciilifeform recalls lengthy passage in 'malleus' where author ponders whether witches pilot broomstick, or merely teleport
1903283;1552955718;mircea_popescu;(in which same vein, i was lately looking for a picture im pretty sure i published, described in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901441 ; also just as lost. the one thing with idiocy is that it's readily lost, and then just as readily found again.)
1903284;1552955718;a111;Logged on 2019-03-12 03:02 mircea_popescu: there's this pic of some indistinct slut i posted once i'm too lazy to retrieve. she happens to be white, sports all manner of celtic cross tattoos, stylisized "SS" etc, is taking a coupla brown dicks.
1903285;1552955720;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect you had slightly moar audaciously lyin' 12yos in mircea_popescustan -- where asciilifeform was, more common pattern was 'my father is a general + admiral + auto racer'
1903286;1552955751;asciilifeform;then again, ~those~ were 8yos. perhaps they graduated to teleportation.
1903287;1552955756;mircea_popescu;heh. had those too, but too trite to recall.
1903288;1552955770;mircea_popescu;ah, no, the teleportation item was early 2000s.
1903289;1552955826;mircea_popescu;incidentally, tom green does a pretty decent job of mocking the immediately previous generation of retards, late 90s, scene with the cellphone in http://trilema.com/2019/freddy-got-fingered/
1903290;1552955868;asciilifeform;2000s was in 'golden age' where simply net connection did not automatically put you in range of 12yo spew , so asciilifeform (not having younger siblings , nor teaching kindergarten) did not find out what they were doing in 2000s
1903291;1552955889;mircea_popescu;"I say GENEVA, and you hear HELSINKI?!? YOU'RE FIRED BOB!!!!"
1903292;1552955954;mircea_popescu;https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=freddygotfingered.htm << ridoinculous.
1903293;1552955973;mircea_popescu;i can't imagine how that thing made only 14mn.
1903294;1552955987;asciilifeform;'creative accounting' for tax ?
1903295;1552956132;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2019/freddy-got-fingered/#selection-127.100-127.213 << i had 1 of these ( admittedly when/where it did not quite require being mircea_popescu to get hold of it ) -- and 1 interesting aspect was that they shat out analogue/plaintext
1903296;1552956163;asciilifeform;if you had a non-usg-blessed wideband tuner, would hear'em
1903297;1552956168;mircea_popescu;either that or "You know what gets no airplay ?"
1903298;1552956215;asciilifeform;or that
1903299;1552956218;mircea_popescu;aha. they were pretty cool, imo.
1903300;1552956283;asciilifeform;sorta how auto is also prettycool if 1 in 100 has it, rather than 'rush hour' jam
1903301;1552956377;asciilifeform;( aaand net pipe, back when one had to go through some effort to... etc )
1903302;1552956704;mircea_popescu;i dunno abgout that, i never felt like blogging on pico.
1903303;1552956794;asciilifeform;well, usenet and 'pine'
1903304;1552956828;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-18#1903274 << wtf was that.. ro reddit ?
1903305;1552956828;a111;Logged on 2019-03-18 23:20 mircea_popescu: after all, previous one took over on account of being public, from the even earlier [http://trilema.com/2010/extemporal-la-venerologie/#comment-33269][private equivalent].
1903306;1552956881;mircea_popescu;some "blogger" / retard.
1903307;1552956913;mircea_popescu;you recall how bitcoin had a buncha ex-lumberjacks / drunks / vagrants etc suddenly become "respectable businessmen" cca 2012 ?
1903308;1552956933;*;asciilifeform finds that for all the 'modern' , still ends up writing hand-htm to throw into it just like al schwartz in 1995
1903309;1552956940;asciilifeform;aa yes
1903310;1552956944;mircea_popescu;romania had a bunch of ~same suddenly become "bloggers" and whatnot, "influencers" cca 2007 or so.
1903311;1552956975;asciilifeform;i'd imagine all moved on to arsebook / shitter / etc by nao
1903312;1552956984;mircea_popescu;this particular schmuck kept a little corner kiosk sellign chewing gum & such. you've seen the manner in paraguay i imagine. then went bankrupt, and "rediscovered" himself as a public speaker.
1903313;1552956990;mircea_popescu;well, internet-public, but anyway.
1903314;1552957004;asciilifeform;uru- but yeah
1903315;1552957012;mircea_popescu;right.
1903316;1552957029;asciilifeform;valhalla of sovok-style kiosk
1903317;1552957034;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo has the details
1903318;1552957065;mircea_popescu;there was a bunch of them, the lulziest characters. ex port-worker (not even fucking kidding), and then ~completely ignorant~ [http://trilema.com/2014/old-texts-on-traditional-marriage-vampirism-and-gayety/#selection-77.0-77.92][of history], too!
1903319;1552957087;asciilifeform;'кто был ничем тот станет всем'(tm)(r)
1903320;1552957087;mircea_popescu;kinda the lulzy thing about "popular feeling", that it is at the same time tediously trite in the objective, and then burningly personal in the subjective.
1903321;1552957174;mircea_popescu;every pagliacci feels deep down a burning urge -- HE IS INVENTING CUCKOLDRY!!!! MAKE ROOM!!!
1903322;1552971697;mircea_popescu;trinque ^
1903323;1552987625;spyked;notice: feedbot, spykedbot and web facing items that I'm hosting (e.g. thetarpit) will be down tomorrow, the 20th of March, cca 8AM-12PM. apologies for any inconveniences this might cause.
1903324;1552987651;spyked;equipment is due for spring cleaning, plus I'm adding a new disk to one of the machines etc.
1903325;1552987907;spyked;in work updates: feedparse is getting another patch today; and feedbot code has been heavily refactored and part one is on track to be published. it'll be a pretty heavy post, I'ma start working writing it tonight.
1903326;1552988110;spyked;^ clarification re downtime: 8:00-12:00 interval is UTC time.
1903327;1553000978;mircea_popescu;cool!
1903328;1553004892;asciilifeform;!#seen phf
1903329;1553004892;a111;2019-03-10 <phf> ksum right now works for any sized file, because it goes the b) route: http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp/tree/vtools/src/ksum.adb#L12
1903330;1553004913;asciilifeform;d00d is serving on a sub or wat.
1903331;1553004918;asciilifeform;hey phf! всплыть по рубку !
1903332;1553007950;mircea_popescu;yeah, speaking of which : phf you've got both http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/15/eucrypt-chapter-16-bytestream-inputoutput-keccak/ and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 pending.
1903333;1553007950;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 18:46 phf: mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like [http://btcbase.org/log][logotron] will render it as just "logotron" in html?
1903334;1553007963;mircea_popescu;oh he's not even here is he.
1903335;1553007990;mircea_popescu;!Q later tell phf hey! you've got both http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/15/eucrypt-chapter-16-bytestream-inputoutput-keccak/ and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 pending.
1903336;1553007990;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 18:46 phf: mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like [http://btcbase.org/log][logotron] will render it as just "logotron" in html?
1903337;1553007990;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
1903338;1553008171;mircea_popescu;"contending for the faith", amirite. that dood could afford to do useful work, but with the affordability comes idiocy, and so he hallucinates nonsensical options for himself. which he'll regret, like any wastrel lives to regret -- but what's the use of regrets, neither do they turn back time nor inform the new crop of youthful wastrels everflowing from the evercunt.
1903339;1553008188;mircea_popescu;meanwhile this dood can't afford to do useful work. if you somehow merged them, you'd have something, but separate they waste separately.
1903340;1553008223;mircea_popescu;and on in that vein -- that dood has absolutely no compunction spending all of his time talking to the lowest possible crop of nobody on a stick ; meanwhile mod6 wants to spend all his time doing the same thing over and over again -- a little whittling of soap under the covers.
1903341;1553008283;mircea_popescu;be it called "foundation" or "pizarro" or "irc server" or anything the fuck you call it, it'd better not include talking to others, and that's such fundamentally intrinsic braindamage it ain't even getting looked at, let alone addressed. if you merged them, you'd have something again, but they're separate, and well... separately waste.
1903342;1553008321;mircea_popescu;the whole impediment to the republic is this slack -- that guy over there has a wheel, this guy over here has an engine, if the wheel met engine you'd have something, however... as it is you have a rotting wheel and an idling engine.
1903343;1553008458;mircea_popescu;one can throw away a good chunk of the domestic budget just dirtying all the pans, not quite enough material to make a meal but plenty enough to require a washing.
1903344;1553008555;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: asciilifeform found himself in this exact position, hence took mircea_popescu's admonition and went to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-18#1903216
1903345;1553008555;a111;Logged on 2019-03-18 16:28 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ffa is 3 ch away from fieldable beta atm ; so in attempt to avoid ending up like mod6 , i'm currently 100% in it. afterwards will switch for a spell to 100% elbows in piz.
1903346;1553008617;asciilifeform;in re which , #18 is in test phase.
1903347;1553008651;*;asciilifeform wonders which is the most recent ch that anyone's had chance to read yet
1903348;1553008699;asciilifeform;in the other dir -- asciilifeform is 100% current re diana_coman's worx
1903349;1553008754;asciilifeform;tho i'ma have to do a magnifying glass walk of diana_coman's keccaks
1903350;1553008860;mircea_popescu;the two versions came out equivalent in my testing
1903351;1553008870;asciilifeform;same
1903352;1553008896;asciilifeform;( but , recall, i gotta sew yet a new keccakator out of them, for fixed-time )
1903353;1553008902;mircea_popescu;(which, incidentally, is one of the largest fucking pleasures of working with republican material -- not ~only~ do you have to test an item against an ad-hoc test suite, but ~you can also test it against other known artefacts~. it's like wot for objects.)
1903354;1553008953;asciilifeform;it's how all of industry worked, before the monkeys
1903355;1553008995;asciilifeform;'this is m3 screw' 'does it fit m3 nut i dug up from ww2'
1903356;1553009019;mircea_popescu;aha.
1903357;1553009043;mircea_popescu;a self-reinforcing body of humanata.
1903358;1553009050;asciilifeform;e.g. modern parabellum round will work in yer ancestral ww1 parabellum. and the tolerance is, what, 0.1mm.
1903359;1553009132;asciilifeform;( much smaller than for screw )
1903360;1553009437;asciilifeform;re standards & tests -- it still bothers asciilifeform that there aint a 'primary standard' for rng
1903361;1553009505;asciilifeform;( could proclaim 'fg' but that'd be a cheat imho , a primary standard oughta have entirely known characteristics, with 0 effect of component variation. but is this even possible for rng. )
1903362;1553010572;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron btw, your comment sectyion ate my quotes, here's the original item : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RurWt/?raw=true
1903363;1553010591;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform are you nuts or what ? can't have "rng with entirely known characteristics"
1903364;1553010626;mircea_popescu;fg is exactly what diana_coman 's origina keccak was : the FIRST. obviously the 2nd suffers from only having 1 predecesor. but its sufferance is part of the solution : by the time 3rd rolls around there's 2, and so following.
1903365;1553010640;mircea_popescu;much like the original lords had relatively little to check their work against, but by now there's a decent pile.
1903366;1553010668;mircea_popescu;can much readily answer "am i a good lord or not really" now as compardd to 2014. and so it goes.
1903367;1553010706;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i realize it sounds like nuttery. but could have e.g. flat output rate irregardless of temperature ( theoretically achievable with radiodecay ) etc.
1903368;1553010716;asciilifeform;there's room for a moar 'ideal' instrument.
1903369;1553010724;mircea_popescu;perhaps.
1903370;1553010727;asciilifeform;*regardless
1903371;1553010793;mircea_popescu;amusinglyt enough,  irregardless is bona fide english word.
1903372;1553010869;*;asciilifeform buys
1903373;1553012730;BingoBoingo;It is indeedly
1903374;1553016931;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/web-sites-of-various-eu-governments-contain-ad-network-tracking-scripts-in-violation-of-eu-data-protection-laws/ << Qntra -- Web Sites Of Various EU Governments Contain Ad Network Tracking Scripts In Violation Of EU Data Protection Laws
1903375;1553017413;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/089-feedparse-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- A few changes to Feedparse's HTTP requester (prelude to Feedbot)
1903376;1553020778;danielpbarron;mircea_popescu, fixed
1903377;1553021073;mircea_popescu;ty!
1903378;1553023280;mircea_popescu;!!key lru
1903379;1553023281;deedbot;Not registered.
1903380;1553023305;mircea_popescu;heh. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-27#1510255 came and went ; don't bother making a key for this handle, i'll negrate it.
1903381;1553023305;a111;Logged on 2016-07-27 03:23 lru: no... still mostly watching for now
1903382;1553023823;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903347 -> fwiw I read with pen and paper up to and including ch10, at next round of reading will sign them too; the euloran swamps where one step ahead uncovers 3 layers to fix before coming back to same position ate a lot of my time, that's all I can say.
1903383;1553023823;a111;Logged on 2019-03-19 15:17 asciilifeform wonders which is the most recent ch that anyone's had chance to read yet
1903384;1553023839;asciilifeform;neato diana_coman
1903385;1553023955;diana_coman;wb phf!
1903386;1553024081;phf;diana_coman: ty
1903387;1553024081;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 1 day, 23 hours, and 4 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plz snarf ch17 : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3134 , ty
1903388;1553024082;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 4 hours and 28 minutes ago: <mircea_popescu> hey! you've got both http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/15/eucrypt-chapter-16-bytestream-inputoutput-keccak/ and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892960 pending.
1903389;1553024121;*;mircea_popescu waves
1903390;1553024423;asciilifeform;ohai phf !
1903391;1553024440;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch17_peh.kv << a++ ty phf , worx
1903392;1553024467;phf;asciilifeform: was about to paste, also i'm not sure if you know but you have a handful of utf-8 vpatches
1903393;1553024475;asciilifeform;phf: plox to say where
1903394;1553024488;asciilifeform;( at one pt i sat down to write a detector for unisadism, but never finished )
1903395;1553024555;asciilifeform;i'd like to get the last uniturds out ( they creep in when paste in from www browser containing own pieces ! turns out. will also have to find out and kill whatever asciilifeform-wp piece is responsible. but not enuff free hands atm )
1903396;1553024556;phf;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/auyin/?raw=true i investigated one of them before and it's stray unicode quotes
1903397;1553024571;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform where the fuck are you pissing unicode quotes into your text!
1903398;1553024606;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the most recent case i found was a 'minus' sign pasted in from ~own article~ . prior to that -- doublequotes in 'manifest', ditto
1903399;1553024621;mircea_popescu;is your blog shenaniganizing ?
1903400;1553024630;asciilifeform;pretty sure the coad formatter is !
1903401;1553024633;phf;diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_ch16_bytestream_keccak
1903402;1553024635;mircea_popescu;gotta fix!
1903403;1553024653;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: verily. until then, i've sworn off to paste anyffin from anywhere other than inside emacs, into same
1903404;1553024677;diana_coman;phf: thanks!
1903405;1553024677;asciilifeform;rly oughta write a cmdline 'lint' util, eats dir and checks that 7bitclean recursively inside.
1903406;1553024727;mircea_popescu;easy to make : take file as is, hash, put file through force-8bit-unsetter, hash again. compare and report.
1903407;1553024742;mircea_popescu;it's either identical or isn't.
1903408;1553024749;asciilifeform;well even easier to walk bytes and see if 8th bit is 0 lol
1903409;1553024785;mircea_popescu;i dunno about esier, but more productive, you get indices too.
1903410;1553024794;asciilifeform;right, if not 0 you print pos
1903411;1553024801;asciilifeform;i'ma do this prior to publishing 18
1903412;1553024811;asciilifeform;it is outrageous that i still got 8th bits in'ere
1903413;1553024834;asciilifeform;apologies to anyone whose toolchain choked on these, if indeed any
1903414;1553024869;asciilifeform;nao that i think about it, this function prolly belongs in vdiff, i'ma bake a patch for it
1903415;1553024923;phf;asciilifeform: some configuration of gnat refuses to compile utf source code, that's how i originally discovered it
1903416;1553024947;asciilifeform;interesting ! i gotta find which, and add to .gpr ( still dun cure utfism in manifest/docs tho )
1903417;1553024963;mircea_popescu;phf which ?
1903418;1553025078;phf;mircea_popescu: trying to figure it out right now, i've realized that it might be useful
1903419;1553025086;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i reckon you're rtight, vdiff should check and report.
1903420;1553025145;phf;it's a bug in vdiff that it produces in this case a malformed vpatch, since we standardized on ascii only.
1903421;1553025161;asciilifeform;rly it oughta halt with eggog if finds 8thbit
1903422;1553025171;mircea_popescu;something like "The file a is not 7-bit clean. Bytes [line, offset]:content. Continue diffing ?"
1903423;1553025173;diana_coman;I would very much like a no-unicode check patch for vdiff.
1903424;1553025188;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no warn ?
1903425;1553025213;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: warn also ok, so long as to stderr where operator will actually see it
1903426;1553025229;mircea_popescu;hm.
1903427;1553025230;asciilifeform;but ideally halt, cuz mircea_popescu did propose 'dun diff 8bitisms' and errybody did agree.
1903428;1553025263;mircea_popescu;and willy nilly we run into the gnarl of idiocy that is [http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-09#1901008][posix]. wtf is a "stderr".
1903429;1553025263;a111;Logged on 2019-03-09 01:21 mircea_popescu: which is JUST AS BROKEN BY DESIGN. ctrl-d will end a file AND kill a terminal, but not touch a task. ctrl-c will kill n levels of task depth, as in her example, FOUR.
1903430;1553025288;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah, there's no tools to be tolerant here, even if there were room for it ideologically. halt it is.
1903431;1553025319;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: stderr is where eggogs go ( imho 1 of the few ~sane~ decisions of the unix people, to separate the streams so eggogs/warnings dun drown in normal output )
1903432;1553025413;mircea_popescu;except when they don't, and so on.
1903433;1553025529;asciilifeform;naturally they don't if author of proggy didn't remember to put'em there. (unix has 0 support for anything resembling sane eggogology aside from the separate stream, and yer stuck with  if(!kernel_api_call()) {shit_pants()} etc in all cases )
1903434;1553025579;mircea_popescu;i have little faith in the separation, and especially seeing how widespread &2> inanities are.
1903435;1553025595;mircea_popescu;"different streams", one monitor, ambiguous keyboard focus, etc.
1903436;1553025597;asciilifeform;widespread where ?
1903437;1553025613;asciilifeform;aa in that they go to same tty
1903438;1553025641;asciilifeform;fwiw peh is written from the start to support putting eggogology on separate physical device (e.g. lcd with red lamp) in embedded builds.
1903439;1553025658;phf;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/r59PJ/?raw=true fyi
1903440;1553025684;asciilifeform;ty phf
1903441;1553025770;asciilifeform;oh ha, loox like peh/ffa are clean now ( the ln.1142 is a ~removal~ of uniturd from prev ch)
1903442;1553025780;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1903443;1553026153;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in antique dianas, http://ossasepia.com/2011/07/30/urlet-cu-coltii-la-vedere/
1903444;1553028153;diana_coman;ahaha, mircea_popescu starting from that look here what I've found, to answer http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-14#1902502 with 2012's text http://ossasepia.com/2012/03/02/cand-greselile-devin-idiotenii/#selection-35.0-39.624
1903445;1553028153;a111;Logged on 2019-03-14 15:24 mircea_popescu: what is so wrong with saying "these people hate us, because we suck, how about we try something else instead of sucking even harder ???"
1903446;1553033606;mircea_popescu;diana_coman aha!
1903447;1553034903;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i actually edited latest trilema to http://trilema.com/2019/lets-look-at-the-mechanism-of-decay/#selection-145.46-149.11 ; but i confess it's unclear which is the cannonical name. should it be dianacoman.com or ossasepia.com ?
1903448;1553035406;mod6;mircea_popescu: You around?
1903449;1553035458;mod6;http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/#comment-128556 << Saw your latest comment here.
1903450;1553035459;mircea_popescu;i am!
1903451;1553035464;mod6;Hi there, Sir.
1903452;1553035569;mod6;I've been doing a lot of thinking recently, going over our converstaion back from November 11th, other conversations as well.  After taking that month or so off (was it 6 weeks?), I tried to ease myself back into TMSR~ related things, but I haven't been very successful.
1903453;1553035589;mircea_popescu;why is that ?
1903454;1553035594;mod6;This is hard, so I'm trying to put it all down here, so bear with me.
1903455;1553035645;mircea_popescu;well yes, but if you want the conversation format this is the venue ; would you rather article-format ?
1903456;1553035718;mod6;For whatever reason, I've been a bit off balance since February of '18 -- maybe just took some huge risks that didn't quite go my way.  And since our discussion where I realized, as well as you wall, that I just don't have enough time to keep up in here; I think this is impacting my everything when it comes to TMSR.
1903457;1553035732;mod6;(This is fine for the moment)
1903458;1553035743;mod6;s/wall/all/
1903459;1553035768;mod6;So anyway, I get ancy, trying to keep up, do helpful things, get out of the ditch, so to speak.
1903460;1553035796;mod6;But everytime I try to climb, out I go right back in.  I'm sort of, stuck in a nasty loop.
1903461;1553035841;mircea_popescu;okay, but why do you think that is ?
1903462;1553035921;mod6;Well, I think my lack of overall time to consume all things TMSR leaves me at a disadvantage.  And I care about it very much, and I seem to just keep getting it wrong.  I don't want to be a barrier or a problem.  And I'm not sure when I'll have all the time that it takes, or the time that I desire.
1903463;1553035933;mircea_popescu;why do you think the problem is time ?
1903464;1553035939;mod6;I'd rather protect my rating, than be on the lordship list.
1903465;1553035977;mod6;Because like we discussed before, some paraphrasing "man puts in 20% of time is 20% of a man".
1903466;1553035981;mod6;Something of that nature.
1903467;1553036007;mod6;And with all the other things that I've got going, I'm putting in like 10-20% per day, max.
1903468;1553036020;mod6;This is pretty hard to keep up with, leaving me further and further behind.
1903469;1553036033;mircea_popescu;are you interested in an alternative view ?
1903470;1553036050;mod6;Sure, Sir.
1903471;1553036269;mircea_popescu;the original point of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903453 inquiry was to force the following dilemma upon you : "i, mod6 , have been doing some things, that didn't work so well. i took some time off, then i came back. when i came back, was i trying taking a new tack, or was i merely tuning in again, to see http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869075 so to speak ?"
1903472;1553036269;a111;Logged on 2019-03-19 22:46 mircea_popescu: why is that ?
1903473;1553036269;a111;Logged on 2018-11-03 15:05 mircea_popescu: shinohai your only available position here is "here is what i now understand to have been doing wrong, and shan't be fucking doing again, as exemplified by this excessively costly self sacrifice". not fucking "hey guise, buddy-buddy, are you gonna change to fit me in THIS time or do i come back whenever later try again".
1903474;1553036283;mircea_popescu;did you take some time off to change, or did you give us some time off maybe we come to our senses ?
1903475;1553036297;mircea_popescu;because it is perhaps the case that the point of that discussion (and, concidentally, the reason it discussed percents rather than scalars) was that dedication, rather than actual amounts, were at issue.
1903476;1553036421;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> did you take some time off to change, or did you give us some time off maybe we come to our senses ? << Very much the former, I'd like to think it's not my way to put my problems onto others or place blame onto others.
1903477;1553036443;mod6;I'm pretty hard on myself, I'd like to think anyway.
1903478;1553036512;mod6;And for what it's worth, during that time, and since, I've done a lot of reflection, trying to adjust myself to the republic.  Being in a hurry all the time, lack of time, seems to make me not think through what I'm doing, or the bigger picture.
1903479;1553036516;mircea_popescu;well, so what'd be the significant difference between "i ran a foundation doing no outreach by means of this publishing now and again on this obscure cvasi-blog" and "i aim to run an irc network doing no outreach by means of running this ircd here" ?
1903480;1553036524;mod6;I mean, like duh, why would I have thought that making an irc-network was a good idea?
1903481;1553036532;mircea_popescu;more/different code ?
1903482;1553036550;mod6;I just started "doing things", as opposed to thinking about it properly.
1903483;1553036582;mircea_popescu;but in terms of substance, rather than representation.
1903484;1553036611;mod6;yeah, the irc-server thing was a good example.  With the foundation, I feel like I very well executed what was in the charter.  As far as the outreach, I think I had a hard time with that part.
1903485;1553036678;mircea_popescu;anyway, to come the length of this circle : the point of the republic, as an intelectual construct, more generally than mere ideology, is that it'll slowly but surely ratchet into view any one participant's vulnerability. some people find this extremely interesting, perhaps as interesting as to fundamentally change the meaning of life, "i could never live without this".
1903486;1553036697;mircea_popescu;some certainly do not. it's not THAT big of a deal ; but i also don't think time per se has anything whatever to do with it, or ever could.
1903487;1553036736;mod6;heh, well, it could just be, as you said earlier, maybe I'm just braindamaged.  lol, I probably am, I've been hit in the head enough.
1903488;1553036757;mod6;But, I think you're right.   The republic is getting harder to interface with.
1903489;1553036779;mod6;it's not the old days of yore, and I've got to get better, I've got to improve.
1903490;1553036785;mircea_popescu;to the concrete part : i don't expect your ratings are in any kind of danger, chiefly because i don't know that anyone expects anything specific of you as it is. the original "so take some time off" can still stand as such, and next april you can come off the lordship and all that.
1903491;1553036820;mod6;But with a lack of serious time and focus, it's difficult to get there, right now anyway.  I don't want to get neg-rated if think continue the same way for me this year.
1903492;1553036820;mircea_popescu;unless you specifically wanna change your call over at http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ and do it this year, which sure, why not.
1903493;1553036886;mod6;Well, if you don't think it's any sort of problem to see if I can somehow get back on the right track with the republic, I'm willing to let it go at that, wait and see until next year.
1903494;1553036924;mircea_popescu;i don't see why not.
1903495;1553036942;mod6;I posted my response to your Lordship article before you made me realize about my retardation of the irc-server/network thing.
1903496;1553036957;mod6;So, if I'd have waited I may have said something different.
1903497;1553036993;mod6;Have you read The Foundation?
1903498;1553037006;mircea_popescu;it's not "of the irc-server/network" thing. it's of specifically cutting off that whole http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128273 discussion.
1903499;1553037016;mircea_popescu;mod6 asimov's book ? yeah.
1903500;1553037033;mod6;Yeah, I'm reading that book, finally.
1903501;1553037096;mod6;I'm starting to make some sense of what "a stanford" means (when you say it).
1903502;1553037132;mod6;Not that it's all very related, but I can draw some similarities between The Foundation, and what The Bitcoin Foundation ~should~ be.
1903503;1553037147;mod6;Perhaps, anyway.
1903504;1553037167;mircea_popescu;you know, it's kinda like dune, a lengthy series
1903505;1553037177;mircea_popescu;mostly cvasi-nonfiction, "here's new paint on arab conflict" etc.
1903506;1553037179;mod6;That's on my list, too.
1903507;1553037223;mod6;You've got a vision, sometimes for me to see it, takes some thinking, some reading.  I'm kinda slow, but I tend to get there with time.
1903508;1553037265;mircea_popescu;but anyway, sure, "dark age minimization" is a legitimate way to look at republic (though not necessarily at foundation) from a historian-of-culture perspevtive.
1903509;1553037308;mircea_popescu;the foundation as such would have been, in its functional extension, a sort of secular trishop.church -- exactly like a foundation works, get people to give you money, build a golf course, that sort of anchoring.
1903510;1553037344;mod6;The book is starting to help me, strange as it might seem, to see how all of this might go.
1903511;1553037371;mircea_popescu;i suppose the correct way to get one of those is to press into service a 60yo lawyer rather than a 30yo computer guy. but in the early stages of bitcoin there was an all-pervasive notion that "we can do anything just because we wanna, we got the range, and the machinery for change, we're uprooting banks and governments and everything in path!!!"
1903512;1553037395;mircea_popescu;so it didn't seem, to period mp, that far fetched a notion.
1903513;1553037413;mod6;*nod*
1903514;1553037443;mircea_popescu;(in fact, for the sake of transparency, the idea i quoted on dpb's blog, from 2016, came exactly as a "hmm, i wonder why foundation is stuck, could alternative path be explored maybe ?".)
1903515;1553037460;mod6;I'm gonna keep reading, I'm about 60% of the way through the trilogy.
1903516;1553037462;mod6;Ahh.
1903517;1553037470;mod6;Well, when I'm done, I'd like to discuss it more with you.
1903518;1553037488;mircea_popescu;if anyone recalls, at that time the intended republic-sponsored kegger party at the site of some anti-usg rebellion died over portland's apparent failure to produce beer & sluts under ben_vulpes 's direction.
1903519;1553037489;mod6;I think with some steering, maybe we can get this thing back on track.
1903520;1553037521;mod6;aah, yah.
1903521;1553037524;mircea_popescu;perfect opportunity to invent a whole new "fest". but -- need the seed.
1903522;1553037538;mircea_popescu;so the obvious idea was, "well, produce the seed, ready for next time".
1903523;1553037592;mod6;Well, maybe this is good.  Nice little chat about all of this.
1903524;1553037606;mircea_popescu;cheers.
1903525;1553037608;mod6;It gives me a bit to chew on here.
1903526;1553037614;mod6;Yeah, thanks for your input.
1903527;1553037646;mod6;I've been working, in the recent few days since "irc-server!!1", on just shaving the yak of my cuntoo-kernel.
1903528;1553037681;mod6;Which, to trinque's point, the tool that really helps (I had forgotton about this) is the `make menuconfig` search.
1903529;1553037733;mod6;Anyway, it's not done being shaved just yet.  But I'm getting there.  So that's what I've been doing last few days.
1903530;1553037830;mod6;I gotta step away for now, but I appreciate it.  We'll keep discussing this stuff.  Maybe that's 50% of my problem, not enough chats.
1903531;1553037888;mircea_popescu;possibru!
1903532;1553039140;mircea_popescu;in other quite abstract lulz : there apparently exists a "cryptocurrency payment processor" (aka, https://probiller.com/ ) that takes one of "Horizen", "Tron" or "VERGE".
1903533;1553039161;mircea_popescu;what the everloving fuck, alien parallel realities.
1903534;1553039438;shinohai;lol I thought VERGE got rekt already. (Got added to pr0n sites, no one bothered to use)
1903535;1553039478;mircea_popescu;i dunno any of them are alive in any sense.
1903536;1553039483;*;shinohai was given ~$100 worth that was immediately traded for BTC on cryptopia
1903537;1553039780;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in pronz, https://www.nutaku.net/services/publishing/ << "Nutaku Publishing is offering $10,000,000 to fund the growth of the adult game development community"
1903538;1553039809;mircea_popescu;remarkably how little press these guys get, considering how much traffic they buy.
1903539;1553045914;hanbot;btw trinque anything grab you re the patchlessness/lack of portage dir in http://thewhet.net/2019/03/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-iv/ ?
1903540;1553053537;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-june-july-and-august-1715-part-iii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of June, July and August, 1715. - Part III.
1903541;1553074521;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903447 -> both work and will work; when I started, the only name I could say I won't change was my own, hence dianacoman.com; in time I found a name for the blog too (took a few detours) and that's ossasepia hence ossasepia.com; but I don't expect anyone to go through any trouble and have to change their links either way; I suppose strictly speaking the blog is ossasepia.com so that'd be the cannonical but I'll
1903542;1553074521;a111;Logged on 2019-03-19 22:35 mircea_popescu: diana_coman i actually edited latest trilema to http://trilema.com/2019/lets-look-at-the-mechanism-of-decay/#selection-145.46-149.11 ; but i confess it's unclear which is the cannonical name. should it be dianacoman.com or ossasepia.com ?
1903543;1553074862;diana_coman;hm, the end there got clipped; I meant: I'll keep both domains and have redirects in place so all links with either domain work anyway.
1903544;1553076087;spyked;re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903323 : services are back online. pl0x to poke me if anyhing's amiss.
1903545;1553076087;a111;Logged on 2019-03-19 09:27 spyked: notice: feedbot, spykedbot and web facing items that I'm hosting (e.g. thetarpit) will be down tomorrow, the 20th of March, cca 8AM-12PM. apologies for any inconveniences this might cause.
1903546;1553100988;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1903547;1553100989;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1903548;1553101016;asciilifeform;!A @z@[foo];@x@[x];@y@[y]@x!;@z!@x!@y!QY
1903549;1553101017;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: WARNING: Short Tape: Tapespace filled to position: 38 of 300.
1903550;1553101025;asciilifeform;err 1s
1903551;1553101062;mircea_popescu;well is it an error or a warning ?
1903552;1553101069;asciilifeform;forgot to disable warnings for bot
1903553;1553101075;asciilifeform;let's fire again:
1903554;1553101077;asciilifeform;!A @z@[foo];@x@[x];@y@[y]@x!;@z!@x!@y!QY
1903555;1553101078;pehbot;asciilifeform: fooxyx
1903556;1553101080;asciilifeform;there.
1903557;1553101106;mircea_popescu;this is getting delightfully elaborate.
1903558;1553101118;asciilifeform;pretty simple actually. (full detail in ch18 text)
1903559;1553101126;mircea_popescu;shall we have a brainfuck / gnarly pehcontest ?
1903560;1553101163;asciilifeform;thing is built as much as possible to discourage brainfuckism. (i.e. explicit positional tape movement is prohibited, ditto recursion)
1903561;1553101189;mircea_popescu;yeah, but that doesn't mean anything in context -- there's a "nimblest dancer" at the retirement home, also.
1903562;1553101191;asciilifeform;one of the wins from this is that whitespace addition/removal in the tape has no effect.
1903563;1553101260;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform imo it's a decent exploration of ye olde negative space. "how would one write gnarl in peh, and how would one automate such, and so on"
1903564;1553101262;asciilifeform;@subname@body; declares a sub (declaration terminated by the ;  so it is not possible to declare a sub with no return. ) @subname! calls the sub. sub can be called only if declared previously, and may not call self. sub may not be declared inside a sub or loop (i.e. if control stack is nonempty.)
1903565;1553101283;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: errybody is welcome to try an' 'gnarl' .
1903566;1553101309;mircea_popescu;this is a lot like saying "every knight is welcome to try and tournament".
1903567;1553101313;mircea_popescu;what, in the field ? by self ?
1903568;1553101359;asciilifeform;ideally multi-player sport.
1903569;1553101434;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i considered to mandate a minimal sub name length, but decided on '1' for time being.
1903570;1553101454;asciilifeform;commentary welcome.
1903571;1553101520;mircea_popescu;i'd say 2, tbh.
1903572;1553101528;asciilifeform;i was also thinking '2' initially
1903573;1553101541;asciilifeform;to avoid confusion with regs and standard ops
1903574;1553101555;asciilifeform;seems like mircea_popescu is thinking same thing, i'ma make '2'.
1903575;1553101585;mircea_popescu;yeah
1903576;1553101589;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's notion is to drive every possible nail into the heads of folx who like to 'obfuscated contest'
1903577;1553101671;mircea_popescu;sure.
1903578;1553101783;asciilifeform;sorta how i ended up starting with starvation minimum of control flow ops, and slowly added'em in after attempts to write e.g. rsa keygen w/out'em turned out quite ugly
1903579;1553101816;asciilifeform;i dun anticipate any new tape motion ops, period (besides, we're justabout outta ascii... )
1903580;1553102171;asciilifeform;for thrd-completeness -- the final design turned out quite diff from the orig 2017 prototype. e.g. orig i was gonna have jumps
1903581;1553102207;asciilifeform;but jumps 1) turn whitespace into semantically significant ops 2) would permit x86-style 'double meanings' where you can jump into middle of a prefixed (2-char) op , and so on
1903582;1553102264;mircea_popescu;aaaha.
1903583;1553102312;asciilifeform;in the end found that they are entirely unnecessary: ch4-style { } forward skip blocks, and ch17 controlstack-powered loop mechanics, do 100% of what is constructively done normally with numeric jumps
1903584;1553102313;*;mircea_popescu had this prepared in his notes, "and then he'll implement jumps, at which point dilemma : either all instructions are single byte, or else all instructions carry double meaning, from whence discussion of ambiguity in language etc".
1903585;1553102316;mircea_popescu;sidestepped.
1903586;1553102319;asciilifeform;entirely.
1903587;1553102366;asciilifeform;naturally it is impossible to make 'magic' proggy where somehow 'no one' can be confused. but can remove the obv. sharp edges that errybody seems to like cutting own limbs off, w/out much cost, turns out.
1903588;1553102581;asciilifeform;the most obvious mistake would be to 'von neumann' and to permit the tape to write to the tape, but i avoided that from beginning.
1903589;1553102589;asciilifeform;tape cannot write to self.
1903590;1553102636;asciilifeform;( it ~can~ print a new tape, which is how one e.g. generates keys, etc )
1903591;1553102797;mircea_popescu;instabootstrappers meet gameoflife on tape!
1903592;1553102816;mircea_popescu;honestly i don't think we've even scratched the surface of what this thing can do.
1903593;1553102839;asciilifeform;so far i focused mostly on ~removing~ 'can-dos' lol
1903594;1553102988;mircea_popescu;yes, but consider : as a counterpart of the "gnalr contest", which imo is not that bad of an idea even if it flows necessarily from the ~nature~ of the substrate, "only intellectually challenging thing to do in c++ is gnarl, much like only thing to do with mud is mess", one could also resurrect ye olde game of life (remember the mike_c project ?). construct say the tape that has the most interesting downstream (by some ~abstr
1903595;1553102989;mircea_popescu;act~ definition of interesting ; concrete definitions are things like "write a tape to do rsa with".)
1903596;1553102999;asciilifeform;design objective was, it oughta be able to generate any reasonable current or fyootoor publickeytron key , transform privs to pubs for publication, and operate to sign/encr/decr., with the 'tapes' being maximally human-readable , and the mechanics of the state machine per se, watertight. errything on top of this -- is bonus.
1903597;1553103011;mircea_popescu;ie, it's a major abstractive tool -- consider only how it structured "interesting" above.
1903598;1553103165;asciilifeform;( the other design objective, perhaps less obvious, is that enables treatment of incoming ciphertexts as 'passive subjects' operated upon by 'active' privkey, i.e. it is not possible for an incoming pehgram to decide to print yer privkey to screen, or radio its bits to aether by constructed pattern of decrypts, etc )
1903599;1553103198;asciilifeform;^ most of the possible 'naive' designs for pehlike item, fail at this
1903600;1553103460;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1903601;1553103696;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/erdogan-intensifies-anti-anzac-talking-points-by-invoking-gallipoli/ << Qntra -- Erdogan Intensifies Anti-ANZAC Talking Points By Invoking Gallipoli
1903602;1553103698;BingoBoingo;^ Brenton Tarrant, very effective Turkish Nationalist
1903603;1553103825;mircea_popescu;lol not bad.
1903604;1553103851;asciilifeform;pretty good upgrade from 'reddit scum', just about
1903605;1553103891;asciilifeform;( supposing whole thing not sham , i've nfi )
1903606;1553104035;asciilifeform;... then again maybe no upgrade, consider , in ww1 no one remembered gavrilo p., d00d quietly died of typhus iirc while europe chopped off own limbs
1903607;1553104141;mircea_popescu;australia-turkey war, top keks.
1903608;1553104193;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/brexit-grexit-departugal-italeave-czechout-finish-oustria-latervia-byegium/#selection-103.162-111.212 <<< the controlling point on the matter.
1903609;1553104254;mircea_popescu;somehow, magically, i don't expect any "democratic decision factors" being hanged, or even as much as confronted (let alone [http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/][admitting]) their strict liability for this result.
1903610;1553104278;asciilifeform;i still dunget wainot turks in eu
1903611;1553104287;mircea_popescu;"liberal man" more and more reminiscent of debbie do anything's settlement husband in http://trilema.com/2016/vacation/
1903612;1553104308;asciilifeform;iirc orig was 'cuz camelfuckistan will transit through it and move to sweden' but naodays that's Officially Blessed
1903613;1553104309;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so the eu can fail rather than thrive. they were "contending for the faith", see.
1903614;1553104314;asciilifeform;so wainot turks
1903615;1553104315;asciilifeform;aa
1903616;1553104346;mircea_popescu;there's this fundamental self-hatred at the basis of "decisions" the schmucky whitebois take. "i shouldn't do well".
1903617;1553104365;asciilifeform;i suspect they also hate turks cuz the latter functional/sane
1903618;1553104370;asciilifeform;non-miami-compliant orcs
1903619;1553104385;mircea_popescu;well, in any case insufficiently impressed by "indignation" and other such vat-relevant devices.
1903620;1553104405;mircea_popescu;amusingly, turkey actually is what miami aims to be.
1903621;1553104412;mircea_popescu;always was, too, roman elite went to fucking smyrna.
1903622;1553104426;asciilifeform;turks -- champs, i've nfi wai frogman picked on'em
1903623;1553104517;mircea_popescu;“Remarks have been made by the Turkish President Erdogan that I consider highly offensive to Australians, and highly reckless in this very sensitive environment,” Mr Morrison said.
1903624;1553104521;BingoBoingo;Probably because civilized.
1903625;1553104523;mircea_popescu;keks of all time. HIGHLY reckless, you see.
1903626;1553104524;*;asciilifeform found entertaining rumour, that usg has hurriedly moved nuke warehouse from turks to ro
1903627;1553104532;mircea_popescu;not to mention HIGHLY!!!! iiiiiiinappropriate.
1903628;1553104543;mircea_popescu;the wooden tongue of these tards.
1903629;1553104551;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform tis fact.
1903630;1553104556;*;asciilifeform buys.
1903631;1553104582;mircea_popescu;cost plenty of dough, too.
1903632;1553104600;asciilifeform;aha, when they move it is like when old sultan moved
1903633;1553104635;asciilifeform;9000 bodies around erry cart
1903634;1553104644;BingoBoingo;Then there's the whole S-400 versus Patriot Missile air defense decision the USG forced on Turkey and is still trying to do take backsies on.
1903635;1553104652;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633625 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902800 very much related, by the way.
1903636;1553104652;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 00:56 mircea_popescu: in other oh wows, elena udrea (ro slut politician, quite successful. http://trilema.com/2009/super-terrific-caption-hour-part-i/ ) got convicted for nothing in particular (her party no longer in power), 5 years.
1903637;1553104652;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 02:50 mircea_popescu: https://www.diarioextra.com/Noticia/detalle/378184/anulan-sentencia-de-exministra-rumana << incidentally, she walks.
1903638;1553104673;mircea_popescu;"conviction" of public person / functionary / official in orclands 100% "usg.blue interference" by now.
1903639;1553104674;BingoBoingo;And Turkey being supplier of certain F-35 part for euro markets
1903640;1553104741;mircea_popescu;the problem being, of course, usg.blue then gets caught with pants down regularly, and well, such lulz ensue. "you want us to help you save your nukes now ? suck on this cock, dorks."
1903641;1553104759;BingoBoingo;The USG defense industry marketers have been getting right fucked by the Turks since they decided Turkey was good enough to make new things, but not buy old things
1903642;1553104851;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: primary occupation of 'blue' seems historically to be -- to help 'red' stuff its cock in blender
1903643;1553104870;mircea_popescu;the warnings to any orcs thinking of following usg.blue's nonsense do pile on : they'll leave you high and dry, yo! wake up an' [http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/][smell the coffee].
1903644;1553104879;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform red is a myth.
1903645;1553104880;asciilifeform;nuke house & related ceremonials , ministered to by 'red'
1903646;1553104891;mircea_popescu;nope.
1903647;1553104891;BingoBoingo;And the Syria situation where NATO member Turkey's allies do not overlap with NATO member USG's allies
1903648;1553104919;BingoBoingo;Last of Red died in Green color revolution
1903649;1553104925;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo nato's practically dead, as a political structure.
1903650;1553104931;BingoBoingo;Survivors shot taming Trump
1903651;1553104933;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: historically existed tho, the folx who set up e.g iraq, by idjit pseudo-diplomacy, were not the one who then sent to die in desert.
1903652;1553104942;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo nato's practically dead, as a political structure. << But Brasil wants in now!!!
1903653;1553104948;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo it's a tenous argument that such a thing as "red" even during vietnam era. which is you know, half century wtf.
1903654;1553104978;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform "sent to die" gimme a break, whole premise of iraq was "nobody dies, nobody even walks the ground. we all sit in mcdonalds and do munch"
1903655;1553104997;asciilifeform;premise yes, reality iirc slightly diff
1903656;1553105008;mircea_popescu;very slightly.
1903657;1553105038;mircea_popescu;btw, anyone recall where that trilema article is, which literally says, "if you believe what usg lies to you, you'll end up in impossible committments which they WILL NOT help you pay for. they'll just withdraw leaving you hanging." ?
1903658;1553105058;asciilifeform;i find the 'coloured' model useful, it describes the -- quite diff -- sets of folx , one which grifts on 'orange revolution' management, other -- lives to churn inventory for lockheed et al
1903659;1553105077;mircea_popescu;"when dealing with usg, make sure you get 100% payment upfront" was http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/ ; but iirc i had a different one.
1903660;1553105089;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is a distinction without a difference.
1903661;1553105105;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/ ???
1903662;1553105153;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo no, this is the "manalone dies like he deserves to die, and like all will die"
1903663;1553105162;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've had the misfortune to meet both types , they're distinguishable even from across street , as if fantasy characters , dwarf, elf
1903664;1553105170;mircea_popescu;item i have in mind was quite pointedly at functionaries, "judges", assorted sops.
1903665;1553105182;asciilifeform;'militaristic' meathead quite diff even visually from the 'demoocracy spreader'
1903666;1553105198;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-ix/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part IX.
1903667;1553105210;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the last time that distinction might've translated a meaningful difference was literally at the ONSET of vietnam war, opposing a very rudimentary "act from causes vs act for effects" dilemma.
1903668;1553105231;mircea_popescu;but i mean at the ~onset~. by the time nixon was involved no such thing as meaningful red spoke publicly.
1903669;1553105233;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/
1903670;1553105273;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo no, that's for zeks imagining themselves "inside the system".
1903671;1553105305;mircea_popescu;this was for orcs contemplating saying "yes" to the questions that may only be answered with the orlov niet.
1903672;1553105416;asciilifeform;possibly i'm thick, but afaik 'blue' / 'red' as diff as can be -- even murder weapon of choice diff, 'red' with rocket strike , 'blue' prefers 'democratic crowd with raised awareness' (or if fails, poison)
1903673;1553105439;mircea_popescu;this is like saying "difference between blue elephant and red elephant is tusk vs trunk".
1903674;1553105459;mircea_popescu;there's absolutely no difference, pantsuited hilarity's hilarious claim to manhood was "being in the situation room"
1903675;1553105462;asciilifeform;imho moar like elefant vs walrus
1903676;1553105466;asciilifeform;yes , both heavy, and tusks..
1903677;1553105468;mircea_popescu;absolutely not.
1903678;1553105539;asciilifeform;they even use entirely diff ethnics -- 'red' ~100% from BingoBoingo's 'flyover states' , 'blue' -- new england
1903679;1553105597;mircea_popescu;clinton was from alabama.
1903680;1553105606;mircea_popescu;obama was from chicago.
1903681;1553105609;mircea_popescu;you got nothing.
1903682;1553105726;BingoBoingo;USG.Red is a subdivision of USG.Blue that exists in the hallucinations of its members, that there is/was a great relevant to them and they can have have it again.
1903683;1553105745;*;asciilifeform admittedly not current on subj. for all i know, both ends nao ~100% 'preet' from bombay.
1903684;1553105811;asciilifeform;decade ago tho, when actually had to suffer sitting in room with both chiralities, found it quite impossible to confuse 1 for other, even blindfolded
1903685;1553105875;BingoBoingo;USG.Red probably exists in the way this guy is a wizard https://preview.redd.it/7gmxlr1ukan21.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=85e516926dda1e02f94efc406ff61f77801ed3f9
1903686;1553105906;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am happy with his timeline : item that was last seen alive cca 1955, was finally buried with clinton's putsch in 90s.
1903687;1553105918;mircea_popescu;one could be excused from believing corpse "is merely sleeping", but not past burial.
1903688;1553105921;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: wtf is that
1903689;1553105932;mircea_popescu;and at the time of burial, it becomes evident corpse was older than the very instant of coffin lowering.
1903690;1553105953;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: usgstan is fulla critters that by all rights 'dead' but somehow not got memo, still move..
1903691;1553105957;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Local wizard fucking with traffic at the intersection of General Artigas y General Rivera
1903692;1553105979;mircea_popescu;not the case here.
1903693;1553106105;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: srsly, dontcha think you could distinguish e.g. grunt with 3 iraq tours, from usg.'state' jockey 'advisor in syria', even if both stripped and tied to posts ?
1903694;1553106129;asciilifeform;they aint even shaped same.
1903695;1553106165;mircea_popescu;nope. the grunt no longer exists, and ~hasn't~, other than in pretense, since vietnam.
1903696;1553106173;asciilifeform;iirc there was even a recent mircea_popescu piece on subj ! one with 'fox' and 'bull'
1903697;1553106195;mircea_popescu;i can also distinguish skateboarders such as curt cobain was a kiddy amongst, from retarded ben stiller carrying around a skateboard while dressed in a lumberjack costume.
1903698;1553106202;mircea_popescu;link ?
1903699;1553106227;mircea_popescu;next you're gonna tell me about "biker gangs", wtf.
1903700;1553106394;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was piece from last 6wks iirc. ( no working search for trilema, so cannot find in O(1) , tried )
1903701;1553106396;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-01#1900039 << is this your grunt ?
1903702;1553106396;a111;Logged on 2019-03-01 22:36 asciilifeform at one time did work that put'im in contact with these folx. met a d00d who, convincingly, described playing 'call of duty: iraq' on... lappy, in actual iraq
1903703;1553106415;asciilifeform;that one -- was genuine grunt. proper agricultural face an' all.
1903704;1553106440;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> nope. the grunt no longer exists, and ~hasn't~, other than in pretense, since vietnam. << Pretty fair assessment. All I've know drank themselves into various sorts of bondage.
1903705;1553106441;mircea_popescu;think for a second : the "grunt" is mental ghost, from before phone age. can you picture one with smartphone anymore than you can picture juliet capuled with double dong ?
1903706;1553106442;asciilifeform;i dun think he even ever used a comp aside from that occasion.
1903707;1553106457;mircea_popescu;capulet*
1903708;1553106478;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform riiight, cuz that's how it works. "other than that one gangbang she told me about, i married a virgin"
1903709;1553106483;mircea_popescu;what is this, an ode to memory hole effect ?
1903710;1553106504;asciilifeform;i suppose from the pov where errybody since ww1 is a rag doll, then yes no grunt to be had
1903711;1553106518;mircea_popescu;vietnam. onset.
1903712;1553106781;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2017/again-with-the-money-laundering-bullshit/ ???
1903713;1553106920;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo yeah, actually i think this is it!
1903714;1553106924;mircea_popescu;tyvm!
1903715;1553112762;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/uranium-convoy-fired-on-in-brazil/ << Qntra -- Uranium Convoy Fired On In Brazil
1903716;1553113601;diana_coman;hanbot, mircea_popescu or any other mpwp expert: how do I allow html tags in comments for non-logged in users?
1903717;1553113620;diana_coman;I looked and apparently I have the allowed_html array fine in kses.php
1903718;1553113638;diana_coman;but it doesn't seem to care about it so something else supersedes it?
1903719;1553113674;diana_coman;I couldn't find any specific hook added and my theme doesn't seem to be to blame for this either as I tried with out-of-box theme and it was same behaviour
1903720;1553113845;diana_coman;rather: allowedtags var in kses.php which I understand is used by default filters
1903721;1553114547;hanbot;diana_coman: re behavior, does it fuck up the tag or send the comment to modqueue?
1903722;1553114643;diana_coman;hanbot: apparently...both! i.e. comments gets sent to modqueue but tag is gone too.
1903723;1553114654;diana_coman;my setting is modqueue for >= 1 link
1903724;1553114712;hanbot;hrm. and on same setting page, "comment author must have a previously approved comment"?
1903725;1553114807;diana_coman;yes, that is checked
1903726;1553114909;hanbot;bizarre. i'll look into it, possibly mircea_popescu knows the culprit by sight tho'.
1903727;1553114940;diana_coman;given this behaviour I suspect some sort of strip/filter at some intermediate step but I don't know wp that well
1903728;1553115532;diana_coman;hanbot: hm, actually I was wrong: comment from previously approved user makes it directly, no modqueue.
1903729;1553115540;diana_coman;so tags are just removed and that's that
1903730;1553115577;diana_coman;does that suggest anything to try?
1903731;1553117815;mircea_popescu;diana_coman is there a filters hook thing ?
1903732;1553117863;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: what/where should I look exactly? my dig into this yielded a sort of 1001 possible filters to add but I could not find one other than default afaik
1903733;1553117872;mircea_popescu;lessee here, 1sec
1903734;1553118157;mircea_popescu;in /home/trilema/public_html/wp-comments-post.php ln 41 :
1903735;1553118157;mircea_popescu;$comment_content      = ( isset($_POST['comment']) ) ? trim(strip_tags($_POST['comment'],"<a><em><strong><i><b><blockquote><ul><ol><li>")) : null;
1903736;1553118158;mircea_popescu;?
1903737;1553118170;diana_coman;that one is there, I saw it earlier
1903738;1553118183;mircea_popescu;like that, including zee blockquote, yes ?
1903739;1553118186;diana_coman;yes
1903740;1553118200;diana_coman;lemme look at it again just in case
1903741;1553118202;mircea_popescu;aite, lessee here.
1903742;1553118325;diana_coman;confirmed, it's in there: comment_content      = ( isset($_POST['comment']) ) ? trim(strip_tags($_POST['comment'],"<a><em><strong><i><b><blockquote><ul><ol><li>")) : null;
1903743;1553118452;mircea_popescu;diana_coman in kses.php is defined twice, at lines 300 and 61 ?
1903744;1553118530;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: yes, once in allowedposttags and once in allowedtags
1903745;1553118541;mircea_popescu;in formatting.php, is in on the list of $allblocks ?
1903746;1553118620;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: yes: $allblocks = '(?:table|thead|tfoot|caption|colgroup|tbody|tr|td|th|div|dl|dd|dt|ul|ol|li|pre|select|form|map|area|blockquote|address|math|style|input|p|h[1-6]|hr)';
1903747;1553119218;mircea_popescu;diana_coman this is truly all i head. are you using a mp-wp or own roll ?
1903748;1553119288;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: I installed it from hanbot's genesis; I added my old footnote's plugin and changed in the theme to show the recent comments, that's about it.
1903749;1553119324;mircea_popescu;i have nfi how the fuck is this possible then.
1903750;1553119327;diana_coman;and today I dug up chasing this thing but so far I have only better understanding of wp to show for it
1903751;1553119337;diana_coman;so I'll have to sink in more time and find out, sigh
1903752;1553119399;diana_coman;fwiw if I'm logged in, it keeps the tags in comments and I saw that yes, it has that current_user can html sort of thing but that is ALL html
1903753;1553119430;mircea_popescu;yeah, the admin can post w/e the hell he wants.
1903754;1553119478;diana_coman;other than that I grepped around and could not find additional hooks set, nor additional calls to strip nor anything useful really
1903755;1553119495;*;diana_coman adds it to the list to unfuck and probably post, ugh.
1903756;1553119546;diana_coman;also: I tried adding specifically to that array, another tag but it clearly just ignores/bypasses it somewhere; not even sure how to figure out *where* (i.e. when)
1903757;1553119640;mircea_popescu;i don't currently know wtf to tell you. there's these two points, whereby $allowedtags hold the allowed tags and then that content filter removes some from comments at time of posting.
1903758;1553119684;mircea_popescu;can you dump the actual content of $allowedtags while the thing is running ? is it getting blanked somewhere downstream ?
1903759;1553119749;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: I did uncomment the "you can use these html tags" which calls allowed_tags and that showed precisely what is in allowedtags as far as I could tell
1903760;1553119765;mircea_popescu;yeah. and it was there ?
1903761;1553119769;diana_coman;yes
1903762;1553119776;diana_coman;1 min
1903763;1553119824;diana_coman;it's live and it shows: XHTML: You can use these tags: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <pre> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>
1903764;1553119878;diana_coman;the only thing to do next that I can think of is to try and trace wtf happens, step by step but I don't even have a clear idea on that.
1903765;1553120110;mircea_popescu;yup they get stripped. wtf.
1903766;1553120132;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i have nfi what to tell you.
1903767;1553120148;diana_coman;thanks for trying anyway.
1903768;1553120158;mircea_popescu;other than, let either hanbot or billymg get to the bottom of this.
1903769;1553120196;diana_coman;hanbot seems to have them working on her blog and so does nicoleci where I think it's barebasic install so as close to genesis as possible
1903770;1553120224;mircea_popescu;diana_coman factually, it works on mine, and on all other mp-wp installs ~but yours~.
1903771;1553120233;hanbot;i wish i knew what the shit. what really throws me is same behavior cross-theme, as i thought this stuff was theme-handled. i'ma keep digging.
1903772;1553120234;diana_coman;so I guess the first thing is if anyone else can replicate it or it's something specific to my setup somehow - in which case,it's entirely mine to find...
1903773;1553120286;diana_coman;hanbot: maybe I messed up at some point all themes; I'll press the genesis again and unpack a clean theme from there and see if that sorts it
1903774;1553120292;diana_coman;at least it gives something to start with
1903775;1553120329;mircea_popescu;how long ago was this install ? i mean, mp-wp hasn't been around long enough for you to have changed something by hand ~and forgot~, is it ?
1903776;1553120389;hanbot;diana_coman, there's at least one instance of this happening on my blog (http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-26#1729169), but i dun recall doing anything to "fix" it, unhelpfully. maybe it's actually 100% broken and i just don't get link comments? lessee.
1903777;1553120389;a111;Logged on 2017-10-26 04:35 mircea_popescu: hanbot your bot ate my links. anyway, here : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-07#1498460
1903778;1553120433;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: initially I tried to simply drop in my own theme but that did not play nicely with mpwp; and for a (very short) time I stayed with the basic but it was so annoying that I quickly whipped up something.
1903779;1553120468;mircea_popescu;hanbot confirmed. http://thewhet.net/2019/03/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-55201 was "No it <a href=http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-20#1903776>didn't</a>."
1903780;1553120468;a111;Logged on 2019-03-20 22:19 hanbot: diana_coman, there's at least one instance of this happening on my blog (http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-26#1729169), but i dun recall doing anything to "fix" it, unhelpfully. maybe it's actually 100% broken and i just don't get link comments? lessee.
1903781;1553120501;mircea_popescu;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-ix/comment-page-1/#comment-101 << same here.
1903782;1553120505;mircea_popescu;mp-wp is actually broken
1903783;1553120564;mircea_popescu;iiincredibru enough.
1903784;1553120572;hanbot;well better that than untraceable sidecase. sorry this wasn't caught sooner.
1903785;1553120594;diana_coman;I do have this talent of stepping on such things
1903786;1553120616;mircea_popescu;meanwhile both http://qntra.net/2019/03/uranium-convoy-fired-on-in-brazil/#comment-126190 and http://bingology.net/2019/03/14/more-future-sight-in-the-southern-cone/comment-page-1/#comment-689 handle it correctly
1903787;1553120628;mircea_popescu;and evidently moderation's not involved : qntra doesn't and bingology does, but same result.
1903788;1553120649;diana_coman;BingoBoingo: what did you do to get your mpwp to NOT strip html tags from comments?
1903789;1553120662;mircea_popescu;word.
1903790;1553120760;diana_coman;ahaha, meanwhile fun with testing: one CAN get a link but inside <pre> as per http://ossasepia.com/2019/03/15/eucrypt-chapter-16-bytestream-inputoutput-keccak/comment-page-1/#comment-5076
1903791;1553120780;diana_coman;either it doesn't strip 2 levels or it doesn't strip specifically inside pre
1903792;1553120815;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: I'll have to dig. Qntra's not on mp-wp yet.
1903793;1553121366;mircea_popescu;diana_coman is "wp_strip_all_tags()" called at any point ?
1903794;1553121457;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: no; a grep returned nothing at all (-ir from top dir of wp install)
1903795;1553121460;mircea_popescu;is $allowedtags ever unset() (presumably downstream from where it prints the contents above forum box) ?
1903796;1553121623;diana_coman;not that I can tell at a quick grep
1903797;1553121731;mircea_popescu;hm.
1903798;1553121763;mircea_popescu;well, im out of straws to clutch at
1903799;1553123260;hanbot;in wp-comments-post.php line 42 i see a list of content tags including b, blockquote, em, etc, but not a href; but eh looks like e.g. b is stripped too.
1903800;1553123276;hanbot;comment content tags, i mean.
1903801;1553123370;hanbot;eh nvm already covered above.
1903802;1553123445;*;diana_coman will go and get some sleep 
1903803;1553123896;BingoBoingo;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8WfnB/?raw=true << The comments.php file contents on Bingology
1903804;1553125347;asciilifeform;!!up peh
1903805;1553125347;deedbot;peh voiced for 30 minutes.
1903806;1553125377;asciilifeform;!A '@foo@[sumthing seekrit]; LC @uses_seekrit@[in blah :]@foo!; RC @uses_seekrit! QY
1903807;1553125402;asciilifeform;grr
1903808;1553125423;asciilifeform;!A  @foo@[sumthing seekrit]; LC @uses_seekrit@[in blah :]@foo!; RC @uses_seekrit! QY
1903809;1553125431;asciilifeform;loox like i killed the lisp bot , brb
1903810;1553125545;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1903811;1553125545;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1903812;1553125549;asciilifeform;!A  @foo@[sumthing seekrit]; LC @uses_seekrit@[in blah :]@foo!; RC @uses_seekrit! QY
1903813;1553125550;pehbot;asciilifeform: in blah :sumthing seekrit
1903814;1553125557;asciilifeform;!A  @foo@[sumthing seekrit]; LC @uses_seekrit@[in blah :]@foo!; RC @foo! QY
1903815;1553125557;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 68 IP: 68 Symbol: '!' : Attempted movement to IP: 6 violates the Cutout!
1903816;1553125560;asciilifeform;there we go.
1903817;1553125607;asciilifeform;^ exercise for readers: what's this.
1903818;1553125744;asciilifeform;( hint: it's 1 of the mechanisms behind http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-20#1903598 . )
1903819;1553125744;a111;Logged on 2019-03-20 17:32 asciilifeform: ( the other design objective, perhaps less obvious, is that enables treatment of incoming ciphertexts as 'passive subjects' operated upon by 'active' privkey, i.e. it is not possible for an incoming pehgram to decide to print yer privkey to screen, or radio its bits to aether by constructed pattern of decrypts, etc )
1903820;1553126303;*;asciilifeform sadly has nuffin to add to the php debug thrd, finds php a voodoo art
1903821;1553126452;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat
1903822;1553150038;hanbot;BingoBoingo thanks for posting. could i also pester you for your wp-includes/kses.php ?
1903823;1553150490;hanbot;that being the only (very faint) lead i've got after looking through every damned file where strip_tags appears, looking at comment_form idem, i stuck a function in my theme's comments specifically to allow desired tags, no dice...i dunno where else to look, frankly.
1903824;1553152114;danielpbarron;the culprit function is in wp-includes/comment.php:  $commentdata['comment_content']      = apply_filters('pre_comment_content', $commentdata['comment_content']);
1903825;1553152187;danielpbarron;comment out this line, and you can have html tags, but this is probably not the ideal way to enable them.
1903826;1553154705;mircea_popescu;if that fixes it, the problem are bad filters set somewhere, i expect ?
1903827;1553155606;diana_coman;so hm, the hook for pre_comment_content is not set properly then? might be worth chasing that lead
1903828;1553159871;danielpbarron;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/4taHY/?raw=true << I think this fixes it. Seems like PHP changed how "anonymous" functions work, now requires a "use" clause
1903829;1553160830;diana_coman;danielpbarron confirmed, it works indeed, thank you. So it's a matter of php version then?
1903830;1553160859;danielpbarron;I think so
1903831;1553160901;diana_coman;my rockchip is running PHP 5.6.35-pl1-gentoo (cli)
1903832;1553161067;mircea_popescu;o jaysus.
1903833;1553161075;danielpbarron;PHP Version 5.6.34-pl0-gentoo << reported from pizarro shared host
1903834;1553161105;mircea_popescu;that sounds exactly right, incidentally. nice work danielpbarron
1903835;1553161131;diana_coman;danielpbarron do you know which PHP version is the last to work without the use?
1903836;1553161147;danielpbarron;no i do not
1903837;1553161178;diana_coman;mircea_popescu are you running trilema on older php that doesn't need this tweak ?
1903838;1553161182;mircea_popescu;4.x likely.
1903839;1553161192;mircea_popescu;diana_coman yup.
1903840;1553161197;mircea_popescu;i never went for 5.x tree
1903841;1553161250;diana_coman;as usual, upgrading "software" benefits and whatnots
1903842;1553161333;diana_coman;that actually explains nicely also why hanbot did not spot it earlier perhaps and why when I looked on her blog it seemed to work - possibly it silently broke only when she moved her hosting and in the process upgraded php version too
1903843;1553161339;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1903844;1553161362;mircea_popescu;i expect it's exactly what happened ; i also had it in my notes as "works"
1903845;1553161398;mircea_popescu;only to (most frustratingly!!!!) discover later that it got verschlimmbessert'd.
1903846;1553161458;diana_coman;extremely frustrating.
1903847;1553161624;diana_coman;I suppose one now should also comb the thing for any other anonymous functions that might need the use clause or otherwise work with empty vars
1903848;1553161883;mircea_popescu;yes.
1903849;1553162136;diana_coman;hanbot in tiny but useful changes: wp-comments-post.php still contains a trilema-specific query that can easily be changed to generic i.e. tril_comments should be $wpdb->comments (line 64)
1903850;1553162265;diana_coman;(what that does is to reject directly comments from already-known spammers)
1903851;1553162547;mircea_popescu;a yes, definitely want that.
1903852;1553178521;asciilifeform;trinque: deedbot down ?
1903853;1553181718;BingoBoingo;<hanbot> BingoBoingo thanks for posting. could i also pester you for your wp-includes/kses.php ? << http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/isem6/?raw=true
1903854;1553181816;BingoBoingo;hanbot: wp-includes/comment.php http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/k72Cm/?raw=true
1903855;1553185060;mircea_popescu;phf http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/nWipU/?raw=true
1903856;1553185890;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1903857;1553185900;asciilifeform;err no deedbot huh.
1903858;1553185945;*;asciilifeform in no particular hurry. was to be yet-another ch18ism demo.
1903859;1553185960;mircea_popescu;if emergency i can up it, but if not meh, lazy!
1903860;1553185965;asciilifeform;not emerg.
1903861;1553185989;asciilifeform;but ty mircea_popescu .
1903862;1553185992;mircea_popescu;hola!
1903863;1553186009;asciilifeform;guten tag mircea_popescu
1903864;1553186105;*;asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu on castle balcony , toucan on shoulder , stroking ocelot
1903865;1553186120;mircea_popescu;lol. why all the animals ? i got hupets.
1903866;1553186127;asciilifeform;point
1903867;1553186143;mircea_popescu;ocelots make shit coffee anyway.
1903868;1553186154;asciilifeform;this also point.
1903869;1553186156;mircea_popescu;geddit ? it's a poon!
1903870;1553186856;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: upstack -- ch18 has several potentially-controversial new restrictions, hence the previews / reqs for comments.
1903871;1553187071;mircea_popescu;aha
1903872;1553188213;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1903873;1553188214;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1903874;1553188221;trinque;going to have to give this thing a look soon; the mystery state of connected-yet-gone is getting more frequent.
1903875;1553188251;asciilifeform;!A @foo@ @bar! ;  @bar@ @foo! ; @foo! QY
1903876;1553188252;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 40 IP: 11 Symbol: '!' : Cannot invoke Subroutine 'bar' before the position where it is defined!
1903877;1553188294;asciilifeform;trinque: i expect it'll be cured when we get on a sane relay net
1903878;1553188427;mircea_popescu;it's certainly a huge difference between (deedbot is connected to republican network, from which moron world managed to temporarily netsplit itself) and (deedbot is connected to moron world, apparently alone in corner by itself)
1903879;1553188458;asciilifeform;!A @foo@ @foo! ; @foo! QY
1903880;1553188458;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 25 IP: 11 Symbol: '!' : Recursive invocation in Subroutine 'foo' is prohibited!
1903881;1553188742;BingoBoingo;"Al ser consultado sobre si entendía que la mayor preocupación de los uruguayos era la seguridad, el precandidato nacionalista dijo que el eje de su campaña sería el empleo y la generación de trabajo." << Fucking retard land
1903882;1553188883;mircea_popescu;keks. wtf is this even, "generacion de trabajo"
1903883;1553188998;BingoBoingo;It's the paper ripping on the guy who wants to cut taxes because "la mayor preoccupacíon" is insecurity
1903884;1553189233;mircea_popescu;100% manufactured idle old woman bullshit. "insecurity" my foot.
1903885;1553189239;mircea_popescu;go fucking die, it's good for you.
1903886;1553189248;mircea_popescu;by a good measure better than hanging out with the poodle lady.
1903887;1553190312;BingoBoingo;These people will not believe that no, US cities like Baltimore, St Louis, and Chicongo have actual insecurity.
1903888;1553190387;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: even there, the folx who ~never~ set foot , have muchly exaggerated picture, 'like minefield' . whereas e.g. asciilifeform spent good bit of time in e.g. bmore , and not even insulted, much less eaten
1903889;1553190443;BingoBoingo;Well, you've been in the US a while. You aren't going to go up to a pack of Urban youths and ask to take a picture with them.
1903890;1553190476;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there's this notion among folx who won't even go, on a bet, to the reservation, 'cannibals will eat immediately'
1903891;1553190513;mircea_popescu;it's entirely not about "folks" or "people". i am pretty sure by now it's entirely old woman [http://trilema.com/2013/youre-gonna-have-to-learn-that-variety-speak/][code], in the vein of http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/
1903892;1553190525;mircea_popescu;it's what ~they~ say, to recognize each other. like how cuckoos cuckoo
1903893;1553190541;asciilifeform;( in point of fact, the 'cannibals' spend 99% of their time in same vegetative state as other ameri-victims )
1903894;1553190572;mircea_popescu;quite so.
1903895;1553190594;BingoBoingo;There's Y-chromosone bipeds who swear they keep getting robbed by motochorros. It's the same folks all the time, because they won't stop going around like fucking scared rabbits.
1903896;1553190686;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: asciilifeform is 'disappointed' erry time goes to orcistans, nobody even tries to steal anyffin
1903897;1553190704;asciilifeform;rly, where exactly ~is~ the mythical army of expert pickpocket
1903898;1553190713;mircea_popescu;moreover, they ~should~ be fucked over by the young boys.
1903899;1553190715;BingoBoingo;You don't walk around orcistan asking for it.
1903900;1553190721;asciilifeform;what means 'asking'
1903901;1553190729;mircea_popescu;only fucking social function of old women -- either train the young sluts, or eat the boi dick.
1903902;1553190731;BingoBoingo;Walking around like a god damned prey animal
1903903;1553190748;mircea_popescu;teh motochorros are the normally functioning social tissue. the diseased part is the "inseguridad" lobby.
1903904;1553190754;BingoBoingo;Right
1903905;1553190764;asciilifeform;who even ~is~ 'motochorro'
1903906;1553190766;mircea_popescu;truly they should oppressed, the sort of politically active old woman should get govt-issued ration card.
1903907;1553190775;mircea_popescu;fails to get it stamped monthly by motochorro, goes to jail.
1903908;1553190809;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Chorros are a local demographic that considers themselves professional theives, mostly dumpster divers and picker uppers of unsecured items of dubious value
1903909;1553190822;mircea_popescu;and stop wasting public funds on "government advertising" inept nonsense. instead of "uruguay por todos" or whatever poodlethemes, "hey old woman, have you done your duty today ?"
1903910;1553190822;BingoBoingo;Moto chorros are chorros on two wheels
1903911;1553190836;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i thought it's an extension on hotdog.
1903912;1553190844;mircea_popescu;(chorro literally is puppy)
1903913;1553190914;BingoBoingo;Well, this is a rural retard land with a rich lundfargo
1903914;1553190923;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: recall how we rolled 100kg of opteron , wat, 6, 7 km , in full view of errybody ? and how no one stole
1903915;1553190967;BingoBoingo;2 km, and no, no one was inclined to steal because the opteron was in mystery boxes attended by actual people
1903916;1553191009;asciilifeform;do orcs even know how to steal properly ? ( recall, sunday market, had among other things a carpet fulla... tv remotes. in ro i saw same, manned by gypsies. who the fuck steals these , and why ? who buys ? )
1903917;1553191046;BingoBoingo;The feria spreads are a split between stolen and dumpster recollected
1903918;1553191061;asciilifeform;in both also saw carpet with '90s-early-2000s pnojes, sans chargers; and similar
1903919;1553191084;mircea_popescu;remotes usually garbage-found
1903920;1553191094;asciilifeform;( old-style 'cordless' landline handsets, also. picture, gypsy picks up and runs, but not picks up base ! )
1903921;1553191114;asciilifeform;garbage around here tends to contain both $device and $charger , for some reason
1903922;1553191124;asciilifeform;( possibly in orcistans not ? )
1903923;1553191137;BingoBoingo;If the handset and base are separated in the dumpster by something really gross...
1903924;1553191170;asciilifeform;i cant speak for other folx who dug in garbage, but when i did, this never was obstacle
1903925;1553191203;mircea_popescu;that'd be at least part of why you're not still doing it.
1903926;1553191213;mircea_popescu;some folk -- do for limited time. other folk -- do for life.
1903927;1553191240;*;asciilifeform still picks up comps on occasion, or items with usable parts
1903928;1553191430;BingoBoingo;Anyways, here's item that started the thread https://archive.is/yxAas
1903929;1553191536;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i cannot resist to bite : how many of these do you read erryday ? i read 1 or 2 and my dosimeter's black, i can feel brain cells shriveling up
1903930;1553191653;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Usually 2 politics pieces every other day. I try to at least eat the headlines. I like having a picture of where old country is headed.
1903931;1553191792;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i budget 10min/d for this, meself. usually consists of list of cmachine opensores liquishit where overflow most recently burn^H^H^H^found etc
1903932;1553191854;BingoBoingo;It's ~30 minutes when bundled with the other local meteorology
1903933;1553192143;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: upstack to garbage warz -- not all garbage is created equal. e.g. asciilifeform found errything from pristine knuth aop , to far-infrared thermoelectrically cooled camera , zeiss lenses , etc. all in garbage. the key is to go to the correct garbage.
1903934;1553192687;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-21#1903897 -> expert pickpocket is first of all expert in choosing victim; that being said, in Bucharest it was the 601 bus (always overflowing) and/or buses/trams from the North Station (bc. people with luggage in a hurry to get on the bus); this doesn't mean that it's not obvious and avoidable but assuming you want to bait them for the xp, those are easy spots.
1903935;1553192687;a111;Logged on 2019-03-21 17:51 asciilifeform: rly, where exactly ~is~ the mythical army of expert pickpocket
1903936;1553202191;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/new-zealand-arresting-file-sharers-banning-semi-automatic-firearms-in-government-power-grab/ << Qntra -- New Zealand Arresting File Sharers Banning Semi-Automatic Firearms In Government Power Grab
1903937;1553204116;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: prolly oughta put a comma in that title
1903938;1553204126;asciilifeform;after 'sharers'
1903939;1553204582;BingoBoingo;ty, added
1903940;1553204704;asciilifeform;diana_coman: as i understand, trad pickpocket is pretty much extinct as a class in usa ( on acct of very little public transport , + very little in pockets worth taking )
1903941;1553204739;asciilifeform;i.e. the great inca does ~100% of the 'picking'
1903942;1553205493;BingoBoingo;I try explaining to the Latinos and Latinas that US houses in the burbs don't have bars on the windows because there isn't shit inside worth taking, given the risk of getting shot invading a stranger's home.
1903943;1553205613;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/afro-supremacist-terrorist-employed-as-schoolbus-driver-tries-and-fails-to-kill-51-students-charged-to-his-care-in-bus-inferno/ << Qntra -- Afro...cist Terrorist Employed As Schoolbus Driver Tries And Fails To Kill 51 Students Charged To His Care In Bus Inferno
1903944;1553205743;asciilifeform;lol BingoBoingo , dafuq would be the point of window bars when massive glass doors and cardboard walls
1903945;1553205762;BingoBoingo;It's a cultural thing.
1903946;1553205772;asciilifeform;bars make sense when concrete wall
1903947;1553205780;asciilifeform;and steel door
1903948;1553205803;BingoBoingo;Massive glass doors exist here too, but they get bars. As do the small wooden doors.
1903949;1553205839;BingoBoingo;And no one here gets that houses in the USA are made out of stick and fluff sheathed in plastic
1903950;1553205849;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: what do folx do with burglars in BingoBoingostan, anyway ? 12ga ? or offer tea ?
1903951;1553205952;BingoBoingo;Burglars aren't much of a thing. Gun laws used to be very loose, though they are tighter now. There's not much in the houses to steal that isn't in their mochillas when the folks go out.
1903952;1553206037;asciilifeform;rright but there are some batshit jurisdictions (e.g. ru) where you ~can~ buy the 12ga, but if shoot burglar you get longer sentence than he would've if instead him caught
1903953;1553206073;BingoBoingo;Ah, here you have to shoot them in the front.
1903954;1553206115;asciilifeform;ianal but in usa typically also
1903955;1553206228;BingoBoingo;But the ones getting shot are sticking up retail businesses or hitting armored trucks when they park in front on banks in the old city
1903956;1553206239;asciilifeform;( in usa also added detail that you can generally expect to go bankrupt if you shoot, esp. if shot 'protected species' )
1903957;1553206313;asciilifeform;( this applies mainly in city ; in 'flyover', 'shoot, shovel, shuddup' as i understand remains in force )
1903958;1553206371;BingoBoingo;Well, civil law country. If your self defense claim works in the courts, it works in the courts.
1903959;1553206394;asciilifeform;repeated examples of 'worked in criminal court but not civil' in recent usa.
1903960;1553206411;asciilifeform;not only for shoot, either, witness the infamous circular saw case
1903961;1553206412;BingoBoingo;Well, that's common law bullshit
1903962;1553206443;BingoBoingo;Torts here are very different from torts in USSA
1903963;1553206523;asciilifeform;( for incredulous readers outside the idjit reservation -- in usa, if burglar breaks in and eats sumthing you left in kitchen, and gets case of indigestion, he can sue and win )
1903964;1553206613;BingoBoingo;And no, I have no recieved my Cuntoo test subject yet. Seller promised a tracking number tomorrow morning, El Código de Comercio was a good purchase.
1903965;1553208143;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-21#1903847 << i did a lazy greping of *.php files for "function(" and haven't yet found similar cases. There are two other anonymous funcitons without a "use" but they also don't have any outside variables to use, so no harm. The rest of the hits are on "create_function" which is similar to an anonymous function but is not victim to the same upgrading problem (still
1903966;1553208143;a111;Logged on 2019-03-21 09:47 diana_coman: I suppose one now should also comb the thing for any other anonymous functions that might need the use clause or otherwise work with empty vars
1903967;1553208143;danielpbarron;works up to PHP 7.2)
1903968;1553216461;hanbot;danielpbarron excellent find. i suppose the apache upgrade's breakage of shared pizarro customers' .htaccess files ought to have been a giveaway here. anyway, impressive; ty. d'you wanna make a patch for this + the db name change in wp-comments-post.php diana_coman pointed out? otherwise i'll do eeit.
1903969;1553216562;danielpbarron;i don't know how to make patches, but i'd sign yours
1903970;1553217939;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1903971;1553217939;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1903972;1553217954;asciilifeform;!A @foo@.0{;}_ @foo! QY
1903973;1553217955;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 21 IP: 9 Symbol: ';' : Branching out of a Subroutine is Prohibited!
1903974;1553217996;asciilifeform;^ in other noose. asciilifeform had to think for coupla hrs about how to impose this fascism compactly. ended up just 3 ln.
1903975;1553221935;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1716-part-iii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1716. - Part III.
1903976;1553226559;hanbot;billymg: these are the totality of your mp-wp patches, yes? http://billymg.com/2019/01/minor-mp-wp-patch-updates/ ; i don't recall anyone else having patches, please chime in if you do. meanwhile phf please add <--- to mp-wp tree, and i'ma solder these to the genesis after which danielpbarron i'd be happy to show you how to make a vpatch for your fix.
1903977;1553238618;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/accidental-death-by-sudden-unexpectedness/ << Trilema -- Accidental death by sudden unexpectedness.
1903978;1553240138;diana_coman;danielpbarron: re making vpatches http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/13/v-with-vtools-keccak-hashes-and-its-own-tree/#selection-81.1-80.1
1903979;1553266545;phf;mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/btoGw/?raw=true
1903980;1553266736;phf;diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mp-wp i've added the two patches from billymg, please let me know if i'm missing anything
1903981;1553267963;diana_coman;phf: I don't see there any sig from billymg for his patches though?
1903982;1553268007;diana_coman;other than that I don't know of other patches though perhaps hanbot is the best person to ask about this
1903983;1553268196;phf;diana_coman: sorry, that was directed at hanbot. thank you for catching the missing sigs!
1903984;1553268269;phf;!!key billymg
1903985;1553268270;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/F5E9580D424CB952E67CBF6F2BBEFC527DC1FE40.asc
1903986;1553269512;asciilifeform;ohai diana_coman , phf
1903987;1553269550;asciilifeform;phf: do you have the anti-utfism patch for vdiff from earlier thrd, or do i need to bake one
1903988;1553269621;asciilifeform;( ch18 patch is written, and the writeup will be also in the coming days -- but i'd like to finally have 8thbit-clean thing )
1903989;1553269920;diana_coman;hello asciilifeform ; ftr I've been enjoying the pehbot demos but atm I don't have a lot of time to catch up faster with ffa, sadly.
1903990;1553269970;asciilifeform;diana_coman: eat it as fast as comfortably fits in head but no faster.
1903991;1553269988;asciilifeform;and as moar pressing works permit.
1903992;1553273747;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1903993;1553273748;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1903994;1553273775;asciilifeform;!A help
1903995;1553273775;pehbot;asciilifeform: I am PehBot. My Width is currently fixed to 256, Height to 32, Tape to 300, Life to 4000.
1903996;1553273784;asciilifeform;!A .6$x.3$y:y.2+$yxyG.1={xy*{_.0}{$x.1}_}{.1}_,x#QY
1903997;1553273784;pehbot;asciilifeform: 024776FFD3CBD21C872ECCD26AD078C5BA0586E2E57CF68515E3C4828A673A6E
1903998;1553273808;asciilifeform;^ max primorial that given fits current bitness , for any set FZ bitness.
1903999;1553273872;asciilifeform;exercise for readers : write ^ w/out using registers.
1904000;1553274147;asciilifeform;pretty fast, too, even for large widths
1904001;1553274190;asciilifeform;e.g. ~1s for 2048b. on this iron.
1904002;1553274961;asciilifeform;~7s for 4096b
1904003;1553275033;asciilifeform;8192 : ~1m
1904004;1553275047;asciilifeform;exercise #2 : this tape can be made ~2x faster , find how.
1904005;1553275177;asciilifeform;exercise #3 : prove that this method worx.
1904006;1553276238;asciilifeform;( the above req's only ch17 )
1904007;1553276631;asciilifeform;( see e.g. old thrd , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-14#1697607 )
1904008;1553276631;a111;Logged on 2017-08-14 17:20 mircea_popescu: this is actually going to be teh magic number of the republic. so at this juncture i would like to ask everyone to compute "the largest primorial (ie, product of all successive primes) that fits in 515 bits", sign it and put it into deedbot.
1904009;1553276807;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1904010;1553276808;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1904011;1553276836;asciilifeform;!A .6$x.3$y:y.2+$yxyG.1={xy*{_.0}{$x.1}_}{.1}_,y.2-#QY
1904012;1553276836;pehbot;asciilifeform: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000BF
1904013;1553276853;asciilifeform;^ largest prime in the 256b primorial.
1904014;1553280779;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903415 << it's -gnatic , ftr. but useless, still permits liquishit ~in comments~ even if set to strictest .
1904015;1553280779;a111;Logged on 2019-03-19 19:48 phf: asciilifeform: some configuration of gnat refuses to compile utf source code, that's how i originally discovered it
1904016;1553280833;asciilifeform;( 100% of problem to date, as observed by asciilifeform , has been in comments / readmes )
1904017;1553282058;hanbot;phf mp-wp patchset looks good, tyvm.
1904018;1553283457;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/macron-order-french-soldiers-to-join-police-for-19th-week-of-yellow-jacket-protests-with-authorization-to-open-fire/ << Qntra -- Macron Order French Soldiers To Join Police For 19th Week Of Yellow Jacket Protests With Authorization To Open Fire
1904019;1553294254;billymg;hanbot: phf: the patches and sigs for the mirrored mp-wp tree can be found here http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/
1904020;1553294273;billymg;i only had the two additional patches on top of the genesis
1904021;1553294367;billymg;hope to have the one that strips out tinymce ready this weekend
1904022;1553337226;mircea_popescu;sooo, my amd socket 3 mobo that was powering the chatstation crapped out. just like that, turned off for the last time, wouldn't come back.
1904023;1553337263;mircea_popescu;obviously i did what any respectable lord would do : reach for the spare. which, once installed, wouldn't post either, just spun the cpu fan at max rotation and that's that.
1904024;1553337295;mircea_popescu;and, of course, NO SHOP IN THIS COUNTRY (literally, tried all shops) even has  socket 3 amd mobo.
1904025;1553337375;mircea_popescu;i mean i get it, they're 20 years old by now. but give me a break, i can find chicks that were spawned 20 years ago just fine, for one thing. and for the other, what the fuck, 2001 era amd cpus STILL to this day the state of the art, they've not yet made better.
1904026;1553338511;mircea_popescu;phf, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TaPSh/?raw=true
1904027;1553338887;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-22#1903996 << evidently alf finally found language fit for self! (and anyone who frequented same kindergarten).
1904028;1553338887;a111;Logged on 2019-03-22 16:56 asciilifeform: !A .6$x.3$y:y.2+$yxyG.1={xy*{_.0}{$x.1}_}{.1}_,x#QY
1904029;1553338930;mircea_popescu;but yes, 024776FFD3CBD21C872ECCD26AD078C5BA0586E2E57CF68515E3C4828A673A6E goes into trilema bylines.
1904030;1553339147;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-22#1904018 << totally not requiring nato intervention / replacement of dictator with herpyderp kid, france not venezuela
1904031;1553339147;a111;Logged on 2019-03-22 19:37 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/03/macron-order-french-soldiers-to-join-police-for-19th-week-of-yellow-jacket-protests-with-authorization-to-open-fire/ << Qntra -- Macron Order French Soldiers To Join Police For 19th Week Of Yellow Jacket Protests With Authorization To Open Fire
1904032;1553339192;mircea_popescu;(not even kidding, venezuela has oil, france has nothing. buncha cuntshat worms are a liability, not a resource, femstate propaganda notwithstanding.)
1904033;1553339286;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, btw could delete item http://qntra.net/2019/03/uranium-convoy-fired-on-in-brazil/#comment-126190 ? was just a test of the comment filteruing issue not understood at the time, has nothing to do with qntra per se.
1904034;1553345020;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08a-feedbot-i.html << The Tar Pit -- Feedbot [i]: the feed db; its manipulation; and the feed checker
1904035;1553350206;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-23#1904022 << sounds like dead cap
1904036;1553350206;a111;Logged on 2019-03-23 10:33 mircea_popescu: sooo, my amd socket 3 mobo that was powering the chatstation crapped out. just like that, turned off for the last time, wouldn't come back.
1904037;1553350224;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-23#1904025 << is how asciilifeform ended up with http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871
1904038;1553350224;a111;Logged on 2019-03-23 10:36 mircea_popescu: i mean i get it, they're 20 years old by now. but give me a break, i can find chicks that were spawned 20 years ago just fine, for one thing. and for the other, what the fuck, 2001 era amd cpus STILL to this day the state of the art, they've not yet made better.
1904039;1553350732;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-23#1904027 << the example looks gnarly but is actually simple. in pseudocode :x:=6; y:=3; do{y:=y+2; if gcd(x,y)==1 then x:=x*y;}until (x*y is wider than width); return x
1904040;1553350732;a111;Logged on 2019-03-23 11:01 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-22#1903996 << evidently alf finally found language fit for self! (and anyone who frequented same kindergarten).
1904041;1553350863;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: surely you meant 'socket am3' ? 'socket 3' was iirc their 486-compat !
1904042;1553350903;asciilifeform;( and if so, mircea_popescu's box is actually younger than mine... )
1904043;1553351011;asciilifeform;*until width exceeded (the mul has nonzero upper half) to be pedantic.
1904044;1553351098;asciilifeform;i'ma take a bit of log space to expand, cuz thing is a kind of 'pons asinorum'.
1904045;1553351149;asciilifeform;.6$x  assigns 0x6 to reg 'x'. .3$y assigns 0x3 to reg 'y'.  : starts loop (by pushing its pos to controlstack.)
1904046;1553351211;asciilifeform;y.2+$y  increments reg 'y' by 2 ( y  pushes current reg 'y' to stack; .2 pushes 0x2 ; + adds the top 2 items on stack. $y assigns result to reg 'y' ).
1904047;1553351258;asciilifeform;xyG pushes to stack reg 'x', then reg 'y', and computes gcd, which then is sole item on stack.
1904048;1553351283;asciilifeform;.1= computes whether this is equal to 1, leaving 1 on stack if it were, and 0 if were not.
1904049;1553351481;asciilifeform;after this, { ..... }{.1}_, and so if it were not, the loop simply cycles again;
1904050;1553351520;asciilifeform;in the 'gcd == 1' left clause, we have xy*{_.0}{$x.1}_
1904051;1553351572;asciilifeform;xy*{_.0}{$x.1}_  pushes to stack and multiplies regs 'x' and 'y' ; after this, the stack contains two numbers, the upper half of the mul result followed by the lower;
1904052;1553351718;asciilifeform;{_.0} happens if the upper half is not zero, i.e. overflow (really can be replaced by {}, i wrote it hastily) , it puts down a 0 so the loop will halt ; the 'else' clause is {$x.1} , where we did not overflow, so we put the xy* lower half into reg 'x' and leave a 1 on stack so the loop continues.
1904053;1553351806;asciilifeform;finally _ discards the 0 put down by the final clause of the conditional when 'not taken'.  , (ch17) is the loop terminator, it pops from stack and if sees nonzero, then cycles back to the : , otherwise moves forward.  in the end, x puts reg 'x' on stack, $ prints, QY returns 'yes' verdict.
1904054;1553351809;asciilifeform;fin.
1904055;1553352009;asciilifeform;for untrained eye, these are prolly indistinguishable from 'brainfuck' and other kunstkammerisms. but for trained eye, oughta be quite unambiguous imho .
1904056;1553352185;asciilifeform;the forth-like notation admittedly requires some practice, for the unprepared ; but the win from it is a fits-in-head interpreter ( ch.17 -- 1024 ln; ch.18 , with subroutines , currently writing the docs -- 1516 , and not expected to ever grow much )
1904057;1553352232;asciilifeform;a large % of the delta , by mass, is eggog detection + helpful message prints for same
1904058;1553352388;asciilifeform;*  $ prints, QY returns 'yes' verdict. >> grr, # prints
1904059;1553352390;asciilifeform;typo.
1904060;1553352398;asciilifeform;otherwise correct expansion.
1904061;1553352443;asciilifeform;i'dve posted the commented orig version, but naturally dun fit in log line.
1904062;1553352586;asciilifeform;the reg-less version, i will leave as exercise for readers.
1904063;1553352704;*;asciilifeform still waking up, may have made other mistake in above, will leave this q also as exercise !
1904064;1553352928;asciilifeform;the underlying algo, tho, oughta be obv -- if you have a primorial up to X, you dun need to do anything fancy (e.g. m-r) to get the next prime you want to multiply into it , all you need is to gcd and see if the next number is relatively prime to it, if it is -- then it is prime, and can go 'in'.
1904065;1553353052;asciilifeform;so we begin with the accumulator having 2*3 = 6 , and roll from there ( the first number tested is 5, then after that 7, then gets to 9 and that's the first rejected one that doesn't get multiplied in, then 11 does, then .... and so forth until the termination condition )
1904066;1553353208;asciilifeform;the 'limiting reactant' speedwise is gcd ( o(n^2), see ch. 15. ) .
1904067;1553357130;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo, btw could delete item http://qntra.net/2019/03/uranium-convoy-fired-on-in-brazil/#comment-126190 ? was just a test of the comment filteruing issue not understood at the time, has nothing to do with qntra per se. << done
1904068;1553359420;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, very likely, though cursory examination did not reveal it ; and im not momentarily equipped to solder on mobos.
1904069;1553359512;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-23#1904041 << yeah.
1904070;1553359512;a111;Logged on 2019-03-23 14:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: surely you meant 'socket am3' ? 'socket 3' was iirc their 486-compat !
1904071;1553359625;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-23#1904055 << that's the primo quality of a good brainfuck. just ask the sluts.
1904072;1553359625;a111;Logged on 2019-03-23 14:40 asciilifeform: for untrained eye, these are prolly indistinguishable from 'brainfuck' and other kunstkammerisms. but for trained eye, oughta be quite unambiguous imho .
1904073;1553359715;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-23#1904064 << yes, basically diana_coman 's by-6 used as  a bootstrapper and a two pouch mutualizer to expand it to size
1904074;1553359715;a111;Logged on 2019-03-23 14:55 asciilifeform: the underlying algo, tho, oughta be obv -- if you have a primorial up to X, you dun need to do anything fancy (e.g. m-r) to get the next prime you want to multiply into it , all you need is to gcd and see if the next number is relatively prime to it, if it is -- then it is prime, and can go 'in'.
1904075;1553359745;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: exactly like that one
1904076;1553359756;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1904077;1553359869;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you still haven't thrown that mobo and wanna put it back in service, feel free to gpgram which caps you need, and where to poste'em, i'ma send you some from own crate, then possibly you can get the bmw fixer d00d to solder it for a bottle o'rum or etc
1904078;1553359905;asciilifeform;i fix mine not cuz like the smell but cuz they're rare enuff , aint nobody making moar.
1904079;1553359922;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, unfortunately i uprooted my electronics lab already. it's ok though, i have a crate of replacements on its way.
1904080;1553359928;asciilifeform;aite
1904081;1553359962;mircea_popescu;took some doing, like everything worth doing fucking does these days.
1904082;1553360040;asciilifeform;btw pre-07 (or so) mobos solder easily, they still have pb
1904083;1553360053;asciilifeform;it's the 'rohs' europitarded newer ones that dunwant
1904084;1553360095;mircea_popescu;these are rohs.
1904085;1553360104;asciilifeform;( classic pb -- ~183 C ; rohs -- ~217 )
1904086;1553360110;asciilifeform;aa
1904087;1553360122;asciilifeform;then you'd have to do what i did aha
1904088;1553360212;asciilifeform;( since that article, asciilifeform did get a hotter iron, but reworking rohsisms is still a bitch, the high temp tends to lift the tracks )
1904089;1553360260;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's pretty odd that yer spare was dead tho. caps shelf-age but not ~that~ quickly
1904090;1553360280;mircea_popescu;nor does it look like a cap death.
1904091;1553360298;mircea_popescu;i suspect somehow the actual controller died somehow. nfi how as of yet.
1904092;1553360298;asciilifeform;mine wasn't an obvious (sans mag glass) capdeath either iirc
1904093;1553360313;mircea_popescu;once the electronix ppl land i might have a better something.
1904094;1553360372;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/mobo/sad_cap_2.jpg << for ref, 'non-obv. cap death'
1904095;1553360552;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you end up throwing it, feel free to send for xray ( if thing is >35cm on the long edge, may have to saw it ) , then can say 'solder ball this-here unballed' etc. valuable old irons aging data point, potentially.
1904096;1553360559;asciilifeform;~nobody seems to actually study this q.
1904097;1553360617;asciilifeform;even the satellite people only seem to give a shit up to 7 yrs or so, re iron life
1904098;1553360709;mircea_popescu;yeah but i mean... seriously ? ten thousand man-hours of work for a peanut ?
1904099;1553360780;asciilifeform;xray takes 1min or so; looking at the balls, maybe hr, i'ma pro bono. beyond that prolly not worth.
1904100;1553360873;asciilifeform;ftr recapping my 'tyan' took maybe half hr, counting the photographies.
1904101;1553360926;asciilifeform;( and i was grrr cuz expected '5 minutes', but see rohs )
1904102;1553360997;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: will add that 'peanut' can grow to 'pea-elephant' if -- and this time verily cometh -- there is not a replacement on hand.
1904103;1553361007;asciilifeform;sorta why submarine has lathe etc. on board.
1904104;1553361075;mircea_popescu;i honestly don't expect we'll ever be recreating these gnarly insanities. x86 mobos nothing to worship, even leaving aside the
1904105;1553361092;asciilifeform;lol ffs why wouldja re-create the whole thing.
1904106;1553361096;mircea_popescu;hey, where's that logline where i say it's not yet clar to me symboix ever amounted to anyting worthwhile ?
1904107;1553361104;asciilifeform;lol all the bolx thrds ?
1904108;1553361113;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu was hardline skeptic of subj from start iirc
1904109;1553361127;mircea_popescu;but i mean, by the time we
1904110;1553361149;mircea_popescu;re out there doing systematic by-hand mobo-ing because "valuable resource ran extinct", might as well have baked... i dunno, a half-sane southbridge ?
1904111;1553361164;mircea_popescu;make the whole damn thing the civilised way rather than sinking "half hours" into by-hand bs.
1904112;1553361165;asciilifeform;tho since we're on subj, i'ma add that the bolix, for what its faults, was entirely repairable, the only 'magic' part that aint off-shelf is the cpu
1904113;1553361190;asciilifeform;( errything else is either standard catalogue '80s piece, or PAL )
1904114;1553361210;mircea_popescu;you'll be surprised how inaccessible "standard catalogue pieces" are becoming.
1904115;1553361224;asciilifeform;entirely inaccessible if you dun know where. if you know where, coupla bux ea.
1904116;1553361229;mircea_popescu;by which i don't mean "can't be got", especially "at my so and so magic provider who's essentially this 60yo who will soon die".
1904117;1553361230;asciilifeform;exactly like yer bmw
1904118;1553361244;asciilifeform;the genuine 'can't gets' , i stocked up on
1904119;1553361248;mircea_popescu;i mean, used to be every town of 100k or more white people had a store with some of ALL of those in stock
1904120;1553361252;mircea_popescu;but not anymore.
1904121;1553361260;asciilifeform;( dks dug up a crate of cpu, i bought a coupla )
1904122;1553361299;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i expect ~99.99... of ye olde golden age opterons have been melted down by nao, just like bolix etc
1904123;1553361317;mircea_popescu;"but mp, it's all for the better, think of all the space and inventory capial saved by the better jit methods of commercial distribution"
1904124;1553361323;asciilifeform;lol
1904125;1553361362;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, even repairable-period crapple parts go for hefty $ nao
1904126;1553361371;mircea_popescu;right ? and WHAT THE FUCK do they put IN THE PLACE, physical as well as financial, thus saved ? same thing women put in the place where "floor washing on hands and knees" and "bake cake" used to go, ie subhuman africanisms ? oh, but tyvm, this progress is so very fecal./
1904127;1553361408;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: y'know full well what 'they put in place'. single-chip disposable rubbishes that konsoomer is expected to buy and shuddup etc
1904128;1553361459;mircea_popescu;n-th restatement of "not beating wives and children has created irrespirable world, a fie on you" etc thread, we'll skip.
1904129;1553361466;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> i mean, used to be every town of 100k or more white people had a store with some of ALL of those in stock << And then Retards killed radioshack
1904130;1553361474;asciilifeform;'90s irons were solid, in comparison even with that opteron. e.g. i still have a 486 that worx like the day it was new, not even recapped ever
1904131;1553361512;asciilifeform;for that matter, that same bolix, and the 1989 crapple it rides on, 100% orig parts ( save for http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2943 which i stuffed in preemptively )
1904132;1553361517;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, radioshack was already symptom of death, federalized to "survive". in the sane world of the 90s these were so many independent shops, ran by period roger vers, tryna do radio advertisements and whatnot.
1904133;1553361526;mircea_popescu;a much saner milieu than "here's our corporate brochure"
1904134;1553361541;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ratshack afaik 100% dead in north amer
1904135;1553361549;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> right ? and WHAT THE FUCK do they put IN THE PLACE, physical as well as financial, thus saved ? same thing women put in the place where "floor washing on hands and knees" and "bake cake" used to go, ie subhuman africanisms ? oh, but tyvm, this progress is so very fecal./ << What they put in the place are a bunch of storefront kiosks each selling a particular wireless carrier's products.
1904136;1553361573;asciilifeform;( iirc mircea_popescu found 1 down south at some pt, but there is no resupply for'em, the co long ago folded , asciilifeform went and bought ~entire contents of 1 for a hundy or so )
1904137;1553361574;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, yes, but even it was BORN -- it was born because the local tards did not have the intellectual capacity to support actual infrastructure, nevertheless wanted to pretend to participate in human world.
1904138;1553361598;mircea_popescu;so they did what they do, "band together and preternd on a 1. 1 >0 even if 1 != the infinity it should be"
1904139;1553361602;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Well, where I grew up local radioshack was a franchise op. Part Radioshack, part crafts stuff franchisee sold in his other store the next county over.
1904140;1553361616;BingoBoingo;The craft store still survives next county over as of December 2017
1904141;1553361617;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, aha, the beginning.
1904142;1553361637;asciilifeform;iirc ratshack already was a zombie in 1990 or so. the wonder is how long the zombie walked, not that it finally crumbled
1904143;1553361665;mircea_popescu;except some dood selling bracelet stamped parts from china, "crafts" for the esty moron femcrowd ain't the same as the hamradio4lyf dood.
1904144;1553361703;BingoBoingo;Well, the other sort of crafts. Model rockets, and model trains.
1904145;1553361712;mircea_popescu;ah ah
1904146;1553361717;asciilifeform;the ham4lyf d00dz even in '90 already considered ratshack a ripoff, and went to buy/sell the junkyard-scavenged parts 100% from ea. other
1904147;1553361726;mircea_popescu;cuz it was.
1904148;1553361730;mircea_popescu;which is my point.
1904149;1553361738;asciilifeform;ikr? 3bux for resistor, etc
1904150;1553361795;BingoBoingo;Still, the place survived through 2005 or so in town of white folks under 10k heads
1904151;1553361814;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if it was anyffin like the ones here : survived by selling overpriced tv
1904152;1553361818;asciilifeform;and pnojes etc
1904153;1553361833;asciilifeform;with coupla drawers of parts, under 10cm of dust, in the back
1904154;1553361853;mircea_popescu;the ppls don't see how electronics relates to them!
1904155;1553361910;asciilifeform;in the very last yrs, ratshack tried to live by offering ipnoje glass replacement. problem is , chinese d00dz in open air market do it 2x cheaper.
1904156;1553361980;asciilifeform;btw i find it interesting, you go on a train ride in washingtonistan and count the ipnojes, 6 outta 7 have smashed glass. apparently even the 50bux or so that it costs if yer hands grow from arse and cant do it yerself, is toomuch for the typical ipnojist..
1904157;1553362001;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Displayed those yes, but the town has a Walmart. Survived on being the shop with the things it had in the place it was. Death of the parent killed it.
1904158;1553362050;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'ma guess it folded the day lolmart realized it , too, could stock a chinese soldering iron
1904159;1553362103;BingoBoingo;Could have been
1904160;1553362111;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, empire degraded significantly, past 20 or so years.
1904161;1553362163;mircea_popescu;literallty can not afford. in the early 2000s, it was azn chicks commuting to "pink" in shanghai treasuring an antique, smashed iphone, white chicks commuting to "professional" in washington pristine last generation TWO (cuz gifts from each boyfriend, had spare)
1904162;1553362188;mircea_popescu;nowadays... azn chicks more last cry than knows what to do with, white chicks suckling the cock for free.
1904163;1553362192;asciilifeform;ipnoje per se is a '06+ item
1904164;1553362195;asciilifeform;but can picture.
1904165;1553362205;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> the ppls don't see how electronics relates to them! << The rule the Peruana has to follow is the less important something seems, the more important it actually is.
1904166;1553362240;mircea_popescu;this is always the punishment, for failure to fem properly, too. and it's so fucking amusing to expose "womens lib" tard to this sort of "oh but look, the women in THAT group do so much better at all the tings [you falsely claim not to be important though its all that really interests you]".
1904167;1553362247;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the 'tailhook' people, pre-clintonization, had a proverb, where iirc 'what you dun know, will not only happily kill you , but eat you for lunch and spit out the bones'
1904168;1553362285;mircea_popescu;possibly the one most mentally disruptive piece of converesation for the http://trilema.com/2016/stfu-attention-whore-culture/ crowd
1904169;1553362604;mircea_popescu;(kinda why the "this is everything" pretense is even there ; otherwise if Mrs. Betjeman gets to thinking of what them girls do in paris.... "all is lost!!!"
1904170;1553362648;*;mircea_popescu notices he didn't write up the ballad of buster scriggs, proceeds to fix 
1904171;1553363159;*;asciilifeform found substantial similification for ch18 mechanism, goes to put it in
1904172;1553363164;asciilifeform;*simplification
1904173;1553363803;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/gary-clark-jr/ << Bimbo.Club -- Gary Clark Jr.
1904174;1553365605;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs/ << Trilema -- The Ballad of Buster Scruggs
1904175;1553368952;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in top keks from the mid 1800s, "Mr. Seward is exerting himself to provoke a quarrel with all Europe, in that spirit of senseless egotism which induces the Americans, with their dwarf fleet and shapeless mass of incoherent squads which they call an army, to fancy themselves the equal of France by land and Great Britain by sea."
1904176;1553370948;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/turmoil-continues-at-slpc-hate-organization-as-departures-continue/ << Qntra -- Turmoil Continues At SLPC Hate Organization As Departures Continue
1904177;1553371319;mircea_popescu;keks.
1904178;1553371338;mircea_popescu;wut, femstate can only make dresses and cake decorations, nothing substantial ever ? SHOCKER!!!
1904179;1553371445;BingoBoingo;Nah, the gave away the dressmaking tradition to Asia. All they got is the decorations for their boxmixed cakes
1904180;1553372663;mircea_popescu;in other news, ima close http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892053 early feb project in failure, given that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-20#1903539 seems a dead end and i got pressing matters  to apply her to..
1904181;1553372663;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 17:20 mircea_popescu: hanbot pick a laptop, bake the man's cuntoo. (principal issue, that gentoo->cuntoo "bridge", see if his sig matches).
1904182;1553372663;a111;Logged on 2019-03-20 01:38 hanbot: btw trinque anything grab you re the patchlessness/lack of portage dir in http://thewhet.net/2019/03/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-iv/ ?
1904183;1553372684;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, feel free to repo the machine involved.
1904184;1553372725;BingoBoingo;Aite
1904185;1553373853;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in top keks : http://www.coenbrothers.net/ (transparent "blog network" for https://top10cryptorobots.com/ which exactly as you imagine...)
1904186;1553375810;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/reviewing-reviews/ << Bimbo.Club -- Reviewing reviews
1904187;1553383437;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-10#1901346 << I can also confirm: I made this change, mounted my cuntoo usb to the build directory and reran ./scripts/make_portage_tree.sh. Sig verified on the resulting genesis
1904188;1553383437;a111;Logged on 2019-03-10 23:28 trinque: bvt: diana_coman: I wager that if you change line 14 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh to the following, my sig will verify on the resulting genesis.vpatch :   dest=$pdir/profiles/${src#$bdir/usr/portage/profiles/}
1904189;1553391297;hanbot;ok, so i'm encountering the strangest problem with v. here it is:
1904190;1553391297;hanbot;1. if i try to press the current head of mp-wp (ie, including the patches, either as reconstructed from our blogs or as maintained on btcbase), it dies with a hash mismatch
1904191;1553391297;hanbot;(specifically : File: */mp-wp/wp-admin/custom-header.php Expected: 3e4322c7d8f1757f883a9f11abec332b8c952d7b050c801e4ba60e72853509f0603e0ea63b093dacf4ca158fe309043984900efa5ea0348c2d1cd9d0eb46388f Actual: 05f567bca8d936ec36e315dd8b667a8654fbcb256758165986810db3f5402d3a9fdf1d3d4bc00de626d627d7e997da9ee08e5261127a216199ce8ff661a4c600 )
1904192;1553391332;hanbot;2. the file itself is found on my very hard drive, untouched since i made this thing last year. a ~new~ genesis, which i just made, on the basis of those exact original files, displays the same exact problem.
1904193;1553391332;hanbot;3. the actual hash of the file, as computed now, matches the actual reported. the signed vpatch, as it exists, contains the expected as listed.
1904194;1553391358;hanbot;4. all other files in that bundle pass just fine.
1904195;1553391358;hanbot;5. i specifically checked, sieving the file through tr -dc '\0-\177' produces the exact same object unchanged, so i don't think it's utf shenanigans.
1904196;1553391358;hanbot;6. what's incomparably worse : | tr '\n' '\r' will transform the file as it correctly stands into a file that matches the "expected" hash.
1904197;1553391358;hanbot;basically it looks like the one file got mangled (possibly via bad upload/download). can anyone else confirm whether either a) they can actually press the god damned thing or b) they have/have not the mangled file ?
1904198;1553391404;hanbot;this is pretty much what v exists to prevent, but it seems wp managed to stick one in! billymg did you manage to actually press the genesis? how did you do it? diana_coman, you said you pressed it too? not ran into the issue? anyone else?
1904199;1553391848;danielpbarron;i pressed the genesis just the other day, and it worked from what i can tell
1904200;1553396019;mircea_popescu;sounds like some implicit lf/nl conversions, the loveliest thing in nature.
1904201;1553396616;mircea_popescu;hanbot, the file is correct. the expected hash (3e43*) matches the keccak hash of that file ; the actual hash (05f5*) matches the sha hash of that file. you are for some reason using a sha v for this ?
1904202;1553403768;billymg;hanbot: yes, i am able to press from any of the three current patches
1904203;1553403919;billymg;i just took a closer look at the files on btcbase.org though and noticed that phf grabbed the old copies from my blog
1904204;1553404164;billymg;this was somewhat my fault as the most recent post on my blog discusses the updates to the two patches but then links to the old versions (yes, they were labeled as old but were also the most prominent links on the page)
1904205;1553404412;billymg;the post has been updated to be clearer for readers scanning quickly to get the files they want
1904206;1553404744;billymg;hanbot: let me know if trying to press again with the patches from http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ doesn't work and i can look into it
1904207;1553404977;billymg;might also be the v you're using, as mircea_popescu suggests. the old patches should press fine too
1904208;1553441188;mircea_popescu;speaking of federation and stuff : hey spyked phf ben_vulpes : how much trouble would it be to log every channel in every network over 50 users ? item shouldn't be publicly exposed, but as a fullsearch query (say limited from l1). something like !Xircs "naked sluts" nin?s returning all the lines matching, in a paste encrypted to caller.
1904209;1553441234;mircea_popescu;can use the http://irc.netsplit.de/networks/top100.php thing for network list, and then of course each network will list its channels for you.
1904210;1553442090;mircea_popescu;can of course charge per query.
1904211;1553442422;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other items of possible interest, http://freedns.afraid.org/domain/registry/
1904212;1553445844;asciilifeform;guten tag mircea_popescu !
1904213;1553448888;mircea_popescu;hola!
1904214;1553449857;BingoBoingo;Buenas tardes
1904215;1553450177;mircea_popescu;who yo callin a tard ? huh ? HUH!!!
1904216;1553450478;BingoBoingo;The folks outside
1904217;1553450500;BingoBoingo;Far too slow, late rather than early
1904218;1553450533;mircea_popescu;!!up chonkin
1904219;1553450534;deedbot;chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
1904220;1553450540;chonkin;thanks
1904221;1553450551;mircea_popescu;slavegirl reports interesting fellow, we see how it goes.
1904222;1553450558;BingoBoingo;Ah
1904223;1553450567;chonkin;So a few minutes ago I laid some statistics about population incarceration rates in a number of different nations.
1904224;1553450594;chonkin;This took place on another network.  I didn't draw conclusions,  I was told "Welcome to permament ignore, shithead"
1904225;1553450649;chonkin;A common statistical pattern is repeated.
1904226;1553450656;mircea_popescu;since we're doing "what did the girls find sifting" BingoBoingo, didja know there's an #uruguay on dalnet ?
1904227;1553450661;BingoBoingo;Welcome, feel free to draw conclusions here.
1904228;1553450683;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I did not, now Imma have to find dalnet and hope that is where the Gauchos are hiding
1904229;1553450701;chonkin;Indigenous  populations make up a minority percent of the popuulation P < 20%   and  their incarceration rates  fall somewhere between   80% < Ir < 90%
1904230;1553450721;chonkin;The same pattern is seen in Canada, South Africa,  New Zealand, and Australia
1904231;1553450755;chonkin;With australia having the greatest disparity.     Indigenous aboriginals  make up P = 7.9%   with a staggering incareration rate Ir = 89%
1904232;1553450829;mircea_popescu;chonkin, not to mention historical waves of incarceration as seen in the "melting pot" aka ny. first, jails fulla irishmen, locals saying irish is the new black. then their sons moved on to being the cops, jails fulla ets. then their sons moved on to being cops, and so on.
1904233;1553450843;chonkin;The united states could be included here,  while even thouhg the African American minority there  are recent immigrants,  the pattern is that they are of "non-europe descent"
1904234;1553451020;mircea_popescu;but the irish and the italian historical migratory waves were of european descent. at least sorta
1904235;1553451032;mircea_popescu;(neither were considered european in europe during the timeframes in question)
1904236;1553451128;chonkin;mircea_popescu   You can justifiably place such statistics alongside the incarceration rates, crime rates, and prison conditions seen in nations that are extraordinarily homogenous
1904237;1553451132;chonkin;Japan and Finland
1904238;1553451181;mircea_popescu;ie, racist arguments do not generally fail at the core, they generally fail at the skirts. you can always get broad agreement on "oh, blacks are tards". that never was problematic, it's a fundamental portion of human behaviour. the problems begin when you'\re asked to establish the limits / produce a "yes/no" answerer to "is this person black" format questions.
1904239;1553451232;chonkin;mircea_popescu   The Maori and the Aborigine were never part of any slave trade economy
1904240;1553451304;mircea_popescu;you can see this fundamental behaviour among children. nothing is easier than for a group of pubescent boys/girls to agree "girls/boys are retarded / not worth bothering with". then one with nice tits, or a fellatio inclination, or whatever, an impressive hairdo or a skateboard shows up, and suddenly there's an exception. before you know it, within the decade everyone's married and their pubescent kids agree on the agreeme
1904241;1553451304;mircea_popescu;nts.
1904242;1553451321;chonkin;Certain theories make predictions and  this is a matter of whether those predictions match what is measured or do not match them.
1904243;1553451352;mircea_popescu;chonkin, as a factual matter, it's unlikely any live human being had a majority of ancestors who were not slaves at some point in their life. now, most of this is undocumented, but slavery is about as fundamental as eating.
1904244;1553451364;chonkin;If prison incarceration rates  "scale" with  levels of white colonizing oppression, then  Aboriginal incarceration rates should be low and  African American I-r  should be skyrocket high. THe opposite is true in relaity
1904245;1553451389;mircea_popescu;i'm pretty sure "white colonizing oppression" is rank nonsense, on the level of "buddha".
1904246;1553451400;mircea_popescu;the usual term for the process of education is... education.
1904247;1553451437;chonkin;mircea_popescu   Well -- I didn't even draw any conclusions.   And because I did not  virtue signal and chatter and state the  colonizing oppression theory, I was called  "shithead" and put on permanent ignore.
1904248;1553451502;BingoBoingo;Well, here you can draw conclusions and present them for some back and forth usually leaning to refinement. Occasionally enlightenment.
1904249;1553451503;mircea_popescu;sounds like a run of the mill libertard venue.
1904250;1553451553;chonkin;I did discover recently some interesting tidbits
1904251;1553451561;mircea_popescu;speaking of virtue signalling : http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/
1904252;1553451569;chonkin;1.  the branch of math called Statistics  was really completely founded in the 20th century
1904253;1553451588;chonkin;2.  The principle developers of statistics were often part of eugenics groups.
1904254;1553451611;mircea_popescu;what's "compleltely founded" ? a workable notion of number for eg, is early 1900s. most math could be said to only have a fundamental existence in the past century.
1904255;1553451624;chonkin;While they would appear "racist" on  modern Cable television, not all of their statements about minority groups were based on some kind of mystical white supremecy, white nationalism, or outright bigoted hatred.
1904256;1553451633;mircea_popescu;that much is true, eugenics was rather fashionable for most of the pre-ww2 modern period.
1904257;1553451673;chonkin;They just kind of flatly admitted that the stats showed them that these groups were different,  and in many cases said that social policy should "reflect" these differences rather than work to undermine and hide them
1904258;1553451676;mircea_popescu;chonkin, i used "racist" above to denote any theory that proposes there can be a fenotype-based partition on human population.
1904259;1553451754;mircea_popescu;which is kinda what race is, "behold, by the magical powers of my caliper i can meaningfully distinguish haploid groups".
1904260;1553451766;chonkin;mircea_popescu   The award winning  molecular biologist that discovered  the structure of DNA  (Francis Crick?)  made some statements in public about  African populations that got him called  a "senile old racist coot"
1904261;1553451784;chonkin;But if you look at what he says in context -- the entire statement ---   he is neither senile nor racist
1904262;1553451800;mircea_popescu;iirc that was discussed here
1904263;1553451813;mircea_popescu;maybe was on qntra ?
1904264;1553451861;chonkin;Sure, there are people in the plain stats and the midwest (ana appalachia)  who  are poor, white, and uneducated.  They "hate blacks" and their racism is  simply bigotry and hatred. Yes. This exists.
1904265;1553451872;chonkin;I won't deny.
1904266;1553451887;chonkin;And since I'm not denying things -- nor will I deny what teh statistics plainly show
1904267;1553451893;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2019/01/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-chancellor-emeritus-title-over-afropessimism/
1904268;1553451946;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, a right
1904269;1553452000;chonkin;Angela Merkel   stood at a podium, with TV cameras pointed at her and said that "Multi-culturalism has failed."   And she was not happy about this like a bigoted neo-nazi.  She meant it as a portent.   "We really wanted it to succeed , but after 40 years it is failling"
1904270;1553452031;BingoBoingo;chonkin: I suspect it isn't as strong of a regional thing in the US as the media folks push with the red/blue state stuff. Lots of bipeds in the US are literate in exactly the same way 98% of Uruguayos are literate.
1904271;1553452039;chonkin;The violent crime rates in  ultra-homogeneous   Japan and Finland   should give pause here.
1904272;1553452067;chonkin;BingoBoingo   Violent crime is so low in Japan that only tiny island nations like Monaco are equal to it  -- ya know like places full of rich retired people.
1904273;1553452096;BingoBoingo;Mind that Uruguay was almost completely innocent of violent crime until Mujica. And this is in South America.
1904274;1553452101;mircea_popescu;i don't think that failure is either contentious or needs much elaboration. it's obvious enough, the socialist dreams have failed wholesale.
1904275;1553452148;mircea_popescu;chonkin, why is violent crime a big deal in the first place ? shakespeare's venice is all about young doods stabbing each other, so what of it.
1904276;1553452192;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: That's not crime. There's cultural norms and practices in Shakespeare's Venice.
1904277;1553452215;BingoBoingo;Violent crime is what happens when there's no cultural space left for necessary violence.
1904278;1553452222;mircea_popescu;yeah, but the cultural norms were for the old dood's house to not be ransacked for valuables (ie, cunt & gold).
1904279;1553452272;BingoBoingo;Sure, but there's also the important question of who gets to stab.
1904280;1553452277;mircea_popescu;"'Zounds, sir, you are one of those that will not serve God, if the devil bid you. Because we come to do you service and you think we are ruffians, you'll have your daughter covered with a Barbary horse; you'll have your nephews neigh to you; you'll have coursers for cousins and gennets for germans." an' all that.
1904281;1553452328;chonkin;YOU guys are  -- (I wil say)  unusually   reasonable people.
1904282;1553452344;mircea_popescu;lmao.
1904283;1553452345;BingoBoingo;!!up chonkin
1904284;1553452345;deedbot;chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
1904285;1553452352;chonkin;OUtside this chatroom,  you can't even state the possibility that urban black youth commit more crime than their white counterparts.
1904286;1553452355;mircea_popescu;the republic is famous as the last repository of human thought, yes.
1904287;1553452364;BingoBoingo;chonkin: Well, that's why we're here and not those other places.
1904288;1553452368;BingoBoingo;Do you have a blog?
1904289;1553452384;mircea_popescu;yeah he has a point. chonkin get yourself a pgp key, a blog, the works. gotta do things right yes.
1904290;1553452396;chonkin;BingoBoingo  The "narrative"  outside this chat room..   a mere mile outside it -- is that blacks do not commit more crime... rather they are "arrested more by racist cops"
1904291;1553452399;chonkin;Seriously
1904292;1553452496;mircea_popescu;amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
1904293;1553452533;chonkin;Well let me add some anecdotes
1904294;1553452557;chonkin;There was a 12 year old black boy playing with a plastic gun in a park.   There was a light dusting of snow on the ground
1904295;1553452562;mircea_popescu;sovok police mostly arrested georgians, too. cuz not every wanna-be bank robber can end up stalin, what.
1904296;1553452563;chonkin;The park was empty.. other than said kid
1904297;1553452574;chonkin;The police rolled into there, targeted him and just murdered him flat out
1904298;1553452600;mircea_popescu;weird.
1904299;1553452612;chonkin;A man was standing in a wal-mart holding an air gun he had grabbed from the shelf.  He was standing in the  cat food isle with said airgun pointed at the floor, and talking on a cellphone.
1904300;1553452621;chonkin;While police officers closed distance and murdered him
1904301;1553452640;chonkin;woops
1904302;1553452652;chonkin;White* police officers closed distance on the "scary black man with the gun"  and murdered him
1904303;1553452667;BingoBoingo;Well, idly and inattentively brandishing things that look like arms is dangerous just about anyware.
1904304;1553452679;chonkin;IN neither video was any attempt made to converse or 'engange with' the person.   They just closed distance like soldier and opened fire
1904305;1553452732;mircea_popescu;yeah, the us went down the tubes, didn't it.
1904306;1553452752;BingoBoingo;But yes. US is a dangerous police state
1904307;1553452757;chonkin;I made some facebook memes about both incidences.  They cops basically said  "This is bravo 6 to HQ.  We have identified the hostile target in our AOR."  "Roger that, bravo 6. You are cleared to engage."   "Roger."     RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT-TAT .  " He's down!  Target is down! Cease fire!"
1904308;1553452801;mircea_popescu;chonkin, why would you "user generated content" for shitbook anyway ?
1904309;1553452802;chonkin;No  "you are surrouned".   No "hands up this is the police"  None of that.  Target was identified and *eliminated*.   Dispatched.
1904310;1553452812;BingoBoingo;Or they could have though "If I talk he's going to talk back and that's work. If I shoot I get two weeks of paid leave"
1904311;1553452855;chonkin;The man in wal-mart was standing in a composed and lazy body position,   pointing an airgun at the floor in the catfood isle.  Talking on a callphone. And they jsut closed distance and murdered him cold.
1904312;1553452889;BingoBoingo;Cold and ready for two paid weeks off.
1904313;1553452937;chonkin;The 12 year old black boy with the  plastic gun in teh park.    Those cops vehicle had not come to afull stop, and they had flun open the doors and where opening fire before their bodies had even really gotten out of the door
1904314;1553452970;chonkin;they were like aiming for the kid with their pistols as their arms are like coming out of the windows
1904315;1553452993;chonkin;They could have just rolled in with atank and  wasted the kid with a .50 cal
1904316;1553453036;mircea_popescu;alf will be pleased to hear his http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-26#1072977 is almost complete
1904317;1553453036;a111;Logged on 2015-03-26 20:43 asciilifeform: one to break doors, gates; one to threaten bystanders, if any, with 'accidental' fire; one to shoot; and perhaps one with a cage that arrestee -might- be permitted to surrender into, if the bot's voice-recognition system works and if orders included a possible live capture
1904318;1553453045;BingoBoingo;<chonkin> They could have just rolled in with atank and  wasted the kid with a .50 cal << Bad optics. Gotta act startled when you shoot or you become just another inmate instead of a guard with vacation time.
1904319;1553453096;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: AHA http://qntra.net/2015/03/local-police-arming-robots/
1904320;1553453106;chonkin;[14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
1904321;1553453110;chonkin;So
1904322;1553453128;chonkin;Have you heard about the key court cases where it was legally shown that cops are under no legal obligation to the protect anyone from harm?
1904323;1553453136;mircea_popescu;yes.
1904324;1553453156;chonkin;This topic was revived againg recently  when a mall cop hid outside in his car during a school shooting.
1904325;1553453205;BingoBoingo;I though he was a full fledged sheriff's deputy that couldn't even be a mall cop
1904326;1553453224;chonkin;The first reaction was "What a coward!  How could he!"  et cetera.   After the emotional fire subsided to embers it was "Didn't that cop have an obligation to go in there and engage in teh shooter?"    then  it was ---
1904327;1553453235;mircea_popescu;well, a) mall cops aren't cops, they're security guards and b) the hotel security guard who pestered that guy in florida pretty much generated the shooting.
1904328;1553453249;mircea_popescu;so yeah. hiding in car is actually the official policy ; and for good reason at that.
1904329;1553453270;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Your b was the Las Vegas one
1904330;1553453277;chonkin;mircea_popescu   I was using 'mall cop' as a facetious slur here.
1904331;1553453278;mircea_popescu;a sorry. las vegas.
1904332;1553453302;chonkin;People wanted to the  cowardly cop hiding in teh parking lot to be  *charged with something*   Derliction of duty.  Something.
1904333;1553453304;mircea_popescu;chonkin, point still remains, security guards aren't there to get involved in shootouts.
1904334;1553453316;chonkin;Then the lawyers showed up.   "Nope. No crime.  He is not legally obligated to protect."
1904335;1553453318;chonkin;who new?
1904336;1553453322;chonkin;who kn?
1904337;1553453325;chonkin;who knew
1904338;1553453328;mircea_popescu;well, anyone with a clue, really.
1904339;1553453329;*;BingoBoingo lives in a city where motorcycle marines patrol the riverwalk
1904340;1553453357;chonkin;so vis-a-vis  :  [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
1904341;1553453423;mircea_popescu;chonkin, why don't you use the proper format for logline referencing, like http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904339 ?
1904342;1553453423;a111;Logged on 2019-03-24 18:48 BingoBoingo lives in a city where motorcycle marines patrol the riverwalk
1904343;1553453797;chonkin;mircea_popescu   Let me be more literaly since facetiousness is not being communicated properly
1904344;1553453943;chonkin;School shooting.   When : Feb 14. 2018     Where :  Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland, Florida.      Who:  Fully-badged sheriff deputies.  Four in total.   On duty.
1904345;1553453948;chonkin;They hid safely in the parking lot.
1904346;1553453959;mircea_popescu;oh
1904347;1553453961;mircea_popescu;lulzy.
1904348;1553453995;chonkin;People cried foul in anger and betrayal.  They wanted the  cowardly sherrif deputies to be  "Charged with somehting"  "Derilecion of duty."  "Suspend and de-badge!"  et cetera
1904349;1553454027;chonkin;Lawyers arrive.
1904350;1553454034;asciilifeform;chonkin: 'warren vs district of columbia' (1981)
1904351;1553454057;chonkin;Lawyers  explain in their special language that the police  ON DUTY POLICE OFFICERS WITH BADGES AND GUNS  are under "no legal obligation to protect anyone from harm even when they are aware it is happening"
1904352;1553454059;mircea_popescu;well, yes. the matter still stands, police aren't held to specifically do anything. there's a lengthy string of cases going way past the 70s.
1904353;1553454059;chonkin;okay
1904354;1553454091;asciilifeform;from horse's mouth, 'the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and, absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists'
1904355;1553454092;mircea_popescu;kitty genovese resulted in some regulations ~for bystanders~
1904356;1553454096;mircea_popescu;but never for police.
1904357;1553454144;chonkin;asciilifeform  Right.
1904358;1553454153;nicoleci;in other lolz-- * Looking up chaostal.hackint.org * Connecting to chaostal.hackint.org (217.69.77.134) port 6667... * *** Notice -- You need to use SSL/TLS to use this server
1904359;1553454159;mircea_popescu;hahaha.
1904360;1553454168;mircea_popescu;well yes, real "hackers" ssl :D
1904361;1553454177;asciilifeform;chonkin: police have 0 to do with specific plebe and his problems with specific thief or axe maniac etc. they are there to uphold the regime. somehow this is clear to people in ru, zimbabwe, etc. but ameritards have various elaborate illusions on the subj.
1904362;1553454179;BingoBoingo;!!up chonkin
1904363;1553454181;deedbot;chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
1904364;1553454192;chonkin;Now  take that conclusion and put it in a bowl and mix with a beater until a fine foam is formed --->  [14:38] <+mircea_popescu> amusingly enough, that's not even false. i'm sure they're arrested more, the fucking function of police is to keep the underclass in check. wtf else are cops for than to arrest the poor ? and well, in the us blacks are usually it.
1904365;1553454227;mircea_popescu;im not sure what the problem is. the police is organised by the king, and yes, its function is the maintenance of the kingdom in order from the king's pov.
1904366;1553454247;asciilifeform;problem exists strictly for folx who didn't get the memo, aha
1904367;1553454263;chonkin;The counter argument to this  cynical indictment of modern socity that police are there to  "keep the proletariat in check"  is to say,  "No!  Police are brave proud protectors of the public who put their lives on the line to blah blah blah and serve and protect and be Superman and Marvel Superheroes against the forces of evil and crime!"
1904368;1553454264;chonkin;Nope.
1904369;1553454267;BingoBoingo;chonkin: I recommend registering a GPG key (preferably RSA 4096) with deedbot before you disconnect. That way you can come back and keep your voice: http://deedbot.org/help.html
1904370;1553454268;chonkin;NOt on paper they aren't.
1904371;1553454304;asciilifeform;chonkin: both on paper and with naked eye, the 'what is police for' q is not any kind of puzzler. it is obv. other than to the willfully blind.
1904372;1553454311;chonkin;They can sit in their cars playing sudoku while a kid turns a high school into swiss cheese with his AR-15
1904373;1553454317;chonkin;Yes.
1904374;1553454323;chonkin;Yes , they can.
1904375;1553454373;chonkin;And you know what?
1904376;1553454375;chonkin;They did.
1904377;1553454451;asciilifeform;otoh if someone tips off police that you have a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-10#1654285 in yer closet, there'll be two dozen squad cars in 10 minutes.
1904378;1553454451;a111;Logged on 2017-05-10 19:28 asciilifeform: remember, this was the country where a man got 20 yrs for being found with a shoelace and a semiauto
1904379;1553454480;mircea_popescu;the plebs are, always were, and forever will be, entirely incidental.
1904380;1553454491;asciilifeform;by definition neh.
1904381;1553454525;mircea_popescu;quite.
1904382;1553454536;chonkin;ALright alright GPG key. got it.
1904383;1553454565;chonkin;But yeh, there is a little flavoring of Marx in the idea that police exist to corall and control the underclass. Flavorings that sort of rise ot teh top of the bowl and stick to the outer edges
1904384;1553454609;mircea_popescu;what's marxist about it ?
1904385;1553454638;chonkin;Marxism suggests the police exist to protect property, not people
1904386;1553454640;BingoBoingo;All Marx did was simplify Hegel and add derp.
1904387;1553454666;mircea_popescu;but this is like saying the color red has "some coca cola in it", because "coca cola uses red as part of its xmas nonsense". so ?
1904388;1553454687;mircea_popescu;the fact that the police exists to protect the powerful from the maraudingly idiotic is unrelated to marxism, and well predates it.
1904389;1553454707;chonkin;mircea_popescu  No I think it is more accurate to say that you are attempting to distance yourself from any kind of marxism at all for  ______ (insert some unspoken reason)
1904390;1553454754;mircea_popescu;well, the reason'd be that i think it's inconsequential nonsense. marx, ziggler, joseph smith, whatever ustarded self-help authors are broadly speaking irrelevant in any conversation.
1904391;1553454860;mircea_popescu;you see some substantial difference between marx and any of the chautauqua retards, for instance ?
1904392;1553454868;mircea_popescu;because i don't, to me it's all the same vaudeville.
1904393;1553454870;chonkin;mircea_popescu The outcry from the public over the sherrif's hiding in their cars while a school was shot up indicates that there is, at the least,  a wound to people's collective conscience.
1904394;1553454896;mircea_popescu;i dispute there ever can be such a thing as a meaningful "collective" declared after the fact.
1904395;1553454911;mircea_popescu;for the same money you're going to take ballots from "the collective stars" at night. what collective ?
1904396;1553454925;chonkin;The law does not coincide with their deeply-held ethical reactions here.
1904397;1553454936;chonkin;not reactions
1904398;1553454940;mircea_popescu;there's no ethics involved.
1904399;1553454955;chonkin;The law does not coincide with their deeply-held ethical framework here.  (Cant think of a better word)
1904400;1553454957;mircea_popescu;in a large enough collection of cows, be they bipedal or otherwise, there will occasionally be perceived synchronized mooing
1904401;1553454966;mircea_popescu;this is not a topic of study, as per libermann. it is a topic of stupid.
1904402;1553455029;chonkin;mircea_popescu  Could you admit to some shared cultural ethos that elevates the Policeman Superhero to a person who  reaches beyond themselves ina  "call of duty" to  "put their lives on the line" for the protection fo such-and-such
1904403;1553455034;mircea_popescu;according to the "deeply held ethical notions" of south koreans currently living, sleeping with a fan on will lead to suffocation through the fan's "consuming of the oxygen".
1904404;1553455047;mircea_popescu;this and that are the same thing : groups of cows go moo! moo!
1904405;1553455071;chonkin;Not "thugs who protect propery of the bourgeoisie"   but    "Hero protectors"
1904406;1553455079;mircea_popescu;chonkin, this seems to me sheer animism. for the same money there's shared ethos in all furniture, "because of the wood". if you must, as a literary exercise, why not.
1904407;1553455086;mircea_popescu;it carries no particular relation with reality, though.
1904408;1553455088;chonkin;"I put my livecs on the line for"  "I sacrafice for" etc
1904409;1553455147;chonkin;mircea_popescu  Okay then they are  government thugs who protect property then.
1904410;1553455148;chonkin;Okay.
1904411;1553455156;chonkin;Is that  "reality" ?
1904412;1553455166;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> chonkin, this seems to me sheer animism. for the same money there's shared ethos in all furniture, "because of the wood". if you must, as a literary exercise, why not. << Powder post beetles are a thing
1904413;1553455231;mircea_popescu;chonkin, that "the police" is the name for this historical institution consisting of the muscle lords pooled together is the plainest reality.
1904414;1553455253;mircea_popescu;much like a restaurant's "waiters" are the remnant of what used to be the lords' servants following them around, only mutualized, so is the police.
1904415;1553455253;BingoBoingo;US police pointedly do not protect "property" in the general sense. Ambitious College bound urban youth steals your bike. What follows is police steal the bike from the stealing kid, then sell your bike at auction.
1904416;1553455327;chonkin;mircea_popescu This sounds almost like verbatim pages out of Karl Marx.
1904417;1553455327;mircea_popescu;i must say though that this "heroic policemen" item smacks me of old soviet union narratives. you speak russian chonkin ?
1904418;1553455357;mircea_popescu;yes, well, what next, "this shakespeare guy i never heard about sounds almost like verbatim pages from bowdler" ?
1904419;1553455434;chonkin;"Serve and protect" is in some kind of police oath.
1904420;1553455457;chonkin;But this is more like  serve the muscled landlords and protect the muscled landlord's property.
1904421;1553455470;mircea_popescu;well what the hell else can it meaningfully be.
1904422;1553455487;mircea_popescu;you understand this, the peons ~can not be said to substantially eixst~! they aren't fucking here in any sense.
1904423;1553455612;chonkin;mircea_popescu  The idea was that  democracy and republicanism  replaced the monarchies and rigid class of the fuedal period.
1904424;1553455651;mircea_popescu;i dunno whose idea this was, but it's not mine.
1904425;1553455655;chonkin;Karl Marx goes -- hol 'up ---  the feudal class hiearchy persists in capitalism with  armed thugs protecting the landlord's cache of capital.  e.g. "the police"
1904426;1553455709;chonkin;And there are actual pages of his writing where he says this
1904427;1553455729;chonkin;Im' GPG-keying with this bot right now.. and I will dig up the citations when I get around to it in a few minutes. So hold tight
1904428;1553455732;mircea_popescu;"democracy" is, well, rank nonsense. here, have some items : http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/ ; http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/
1904429;1553455740;mircea_popescu;both antique and modern versions there covered.
1904430;1553455764;mircea_popescu;and a republic never was, nor ever could or will be anything else than a lordship. such as this one, such as the earlier venetian attempt a millenium ago, such as all others.
1904431;1553455776;mircea_popescu;the republic is the voice of the elite.
1904432;1553455792;chonkin;mircea  these assertions are like marxism 101.  (but I'm getting this bot all set up and I will get back to you in a few)
1904433;1553455803;mircea_popescu;chonkin, the dispute isn't whether "marx blathered in this vein". you know who bowdler was ?
1904434;1553455850;chonkin;mircea_popescu  YOU will have to deal with teh fact that Marx's ideas  very much overlap yours.  This is not *my* problem.  It is yours.   You deal with the obvious overlap in whatever emotional way you ened ot in order to sleep and night and get by.
1904435;1553455871;chonkin;But the overlap *is* there.
1904436;1553455880;mircea_popescu;i dunno i have to "deal" with it, beyond not giving a shit. again, some derp mouthing something or the other creates no point of interest.
1904437;1553455892;chonkin;mircea_popescu Then why the invective and acrimony>
1904438;1553455912;chonkin;The voice of a grown adult is "Yes. It's the same idea. Same same. Moving on"
1904439;1553455912;mircea_popescu;yet again -- ever heard of thomas bowdler ?
1904440;1553455969;chonkin;mircea_popescu  Are you nudge-winking me that  "every  single sentence Marx put to paper was metphysically incorrect, so don't dare compare me to him in his wrong-ity"???
1904441;1553455979;chonkin;You tell me
1904442;1553455999;BingoBoingo;!!up chonkin
1904443;1553456000;deedbot;chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
1904444;1553456021;chonkin;(I'm gonna deal with this bot GPG key crap, and you're gonna sit tight)
1904445;1553456039;mircea_popescu;no, i'm saying that some random dork misspelling shakespeare isn't a "problem" or something shakespeare has to deal with.
1904446;1553456189;BingoBoingo;<chonkin> mircea_popescu  Are you nudge-winking me that  "every  single sentence Marx put to paper was metphysically incorrect, so don't dare compare me to him in his wrong-ity"??? << You have to look at what the man was saying. Marx is a rather late fellow, 19th century. The world worked long before Marx. Marx cribbed a guy http://bingology.net/2016/01/24/the-theoretical-foundation-of-social-engineering-practice/ and tried to use the
1904447;1553456189;BingoBoingo;guy's tools to tear down the functional world on the idea all bipeds are people while he failed to feed his children.
1904448;1553456222;BingoBoingo;The world working a certain way and Marx mentioning those workings doesn't make talking about those workings Marxist
1904449;1553456294;mircea_popescu;i suppose in a sense marx is the original, one-man "social media platform" slash spammer attack on the conversation. ie, "here's some bits of text i culled from the net, and here's some links, publish my comment".
1904450;1553456401;BingoBoingo;Anyways, the ideological progenitors of Marxism are the Britshits in parliament setting the stage for Marx's spam attacks to work. Marx himself pretty much a non-entity beyond folks finding the spread of his spam reason to use his name as a label.
1904451;1553456420;mircea_popescu;it doesn't work for "RodneyOnern" earlier today and it didn't work for "Karl Marx" earlier this century. the irrelevant circumstance that some blogs publish spam and some morons became michael jackson fans or roosh v or karl marx  or dale carnegie fans/true believers/whatever is exactly as the word says : irrelevant.
1904452;1553456487;BingoBoingo;Back when the US read, "Hegelian" groups sprouted up in US cities advocating a bunch of stuff that now gets labeled Marxist, because the Spam was targeted to their level
1904453;1553456542;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, do you happen to recall which the hell trilema article is it where i say that the illusion of existence or identity randos cherish is merely the reflection of my interaction with the world, an interaction to which they're neither party nor necessary ?
1904454;1553456573;BingoBoingo;not off hand, can dig
1904455;1553456621;mircea_popescu;minor point i guess. anyways.
1904456;1553456686;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2015/the-lulz-in-dating/ ?
1904457;1553456710;mircea_popescu;nah, this year.
1904458;1553456777;nicoleci;in continuing hystericals, https://bondageinternational.com/Hypnotism/coverthypnotism/
1904459;1553456786;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2019/what-is-meant-by-ai/#selection-211.0-223.0
1904460;1553456790;mircea_popescu;lol don't tell me, tehy're gonna magically get laid ?
1904461;1553456823;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, nah. it was quite literal, i just don't recall the nouns so my search dun work
1904462;1553456957;nicoleci;mircea_popescu, lol, i doubt the dorks have the nerve. probably just magic dry hump.
1904463;1553456968;mircea_popescu;lol
1904464;1553457055;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2019/the-working-philosopher-and-the-what-if-philosopher/
1904465;1553457251;mircea_popescu;nope ;/ still not the one i had in mind god damn it all to hell, im turning senile over here.
1904466;1553457498;BingoBoingo;Found it http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-119.0-119.401
1904467;1553457515;BingoBoingo;"I am one such, if any others do indeed exist, because ~that is what I am~. Your existence, such as you perceive it, is a minimal side effect of the foregoing, nothing more than that. In the strictest of senses : your perception of your own existence is merely the shimmering, distant reflection of a coupling between the world and me, that is in itself self-sufficient and has entirely no need of you."
1904468;1553457551;BingoBoingo;Fuck that was a tighter match than I was expecting
1904469;1553457630;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, fuck me you found it!
1904470;1553457645;mircea_popescu;wd
1904471;1553457743;BingoBoingo;ty
1904472;1553457793;*;asciilifeform meanwhile finished massive rewrite of ch18 mechanisms, nao goes to rewrite the text..
1904473;1553457840;BingoBoingo;!!up chonkin
1904474;1553457841;deedbot;chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
1904475;1553457879;chonkin;alright
1904476;1553457891;chonkin;deedbot says I cannot !!up myself
1904477;1553457904;chonkin;So I have no idea what all the public key register stuff was for
1904478;1553457911;chonkin;anyways
1904479;1553457928;chonkin;Karl Marx was a German economist.    Not a "blog spammer".
1904480;1553457934;BingoBoingo;!!rate chonkin 1 Loan of voice
1904481;1553457937;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SqPGY/?raw=true
1904482;1553457970;chonkin;So if your ideas overlap  with Karl Marx, you say   "ON this particular point we agree about police and their use in modern society."  Leave it at that.
1904483;1553457975;chonkin;Anything less is just immaturity
1904484;1553458012;danielpbarron;!!rate chonkin 1 chatted with him on dalnet about the Bible
1904485;1553458017;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DK7NK/?raw=true
1904486;1553458121;BingoBoingo;<chonkin> Karl Marx was a German economist.    Not a "blog spammer". << Part of being sensible people per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904281 is we gotta filter nonsense somehow
1904487;1553458121;a111;Logged on 2019-03-24 18:32 chonkin: YOU guys are  -- (I wil say)  unusually   reasonable people.
1904488;1553458146;BingoBoingo;And that means filing Marx away to the "noise" namespace
1904489;1553458152;chonkin;Or  just roll around and have a tantrum  while yelling "Do not compare me to Marx!"  until your face turns blue.
1904490;1553458157;chonkin;Your choice.  As you were.
1904491;1553458186;BingoBoingo;!!v B1E5B3A67AA014D87466D5A65F5F87FEC6A13D2C3CA0E81884D107B46796D4DF
1904492;1553458186;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated chonkin 1 << Loan of voice
1904493;1553458221;BingoBoingo;chonkin: What part of the world do you call home?
1904494;1553458226;chonkin;usa
1904495;1553458326;BingoBoingo;Why haven't you left yet?
1904496;1553458408;chonkin;Well I have all the paperwork in order.
1904497;1553458412;BingoBoingo;You seem to be very aware you live in an oppressive police state. What's keeping you in?
1904498;1553458419;chonkin;I don't have a thick enough resume to immigrate
1904499;1553458471;BingoBoingo;Most of the Venezolanas immigrating to down here this year don't have thick resumes
1904500;1553458509;BingoBoingo;2013-2015 they did, but now a lot of cajeras looking for a new home
1904501;1553458620;BingoBoingo;What is your trade?
1904502;1553458637;chonkin;My perspective is that we are concentraing on the role of police in society, which Marx had a very cynical take on identical to some postings here. I wasn't placing his bust on a pedestal or defending the body of his works
1904503;1553458666;chonkin;somehow this invoked a tirade of hegelian historical anecdotes and something about how he "failed to feed his children" or something
1904504;1553458905;BingoBoingo;I'm moving that to the table. Most folks here work on projects carving out fiefs in out brave new world. "What is your trade?" was intented to fish out what sort of things you do.
1904505;1553458992;chonkin;I've made some money writing software
1904506;1553459016;chonkin;I know C, C++, Scala, Java  (and some little bit of python)
1904507;1553459118;BingoBoingo;Ever play with ADA? http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/
1904508;1553459148;chonkin;o_O
1904509;1553459154;chonkin;ada for critical code.. interesting
1904510;1553459182;BingoBoingo;We're hygienic folk here
1904511;1553459449;chonkin;Is this real?   https://www.adaic.org/advantages/ada-overview/
1904512;1553459471;mircea_popescu;chonkin, most of that's your own read-in. i simply pointed out "marx" isn't  somebody. you wanna carry a discussion with someone, you're stuck using mutual ground. you're more than welcome to think what you will, but to me marx is indistinguishable from any other blog spammer, for reasons explained. you're more than welcome to engage those or not, but that's about how far it goes.
1904513;1553459571;chonkin;Yeah well the methods were adopted by every economist after him.  We still read articles about how  "rent prices are driven up by the presnce of large tech companies"   and  we watch  CNBC and BLoomberg on our flat TVs and they speak at length of the "unemployment rate"
1904514;1553459582;mircea_popescu;anyway, as far as anyone currently knows, that is real. there's a lot of work undergoing to establish just how real it actually is tho.
1904515;1553459602;mircea_popescu;chonkin, amusingly enough, "economists" also aren't somebody, so this doesn't do much.
1904516;1553459616;BingoBoingo;Getting up to speed with what us reasonable people do generally takes several months of reading. What we do is carve out space for us hygeinic reasonable people to live without suffering the unwashed poptards. http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/
1904517;1553459629;chonkin;Alex Trebek:  This German economist was the frist to utilize the unemployment rate.      {Jeopardy music plays}
1904518;1553459641;*;mircea_popescu shrugs.
1904519;1553459662;mircea_popescu;chonkin, i expect deedbot will let you self-voice now, give it a try.
1904520;1553459683;BingoBoingo;What you were missing earlier was a rating
1904521;1553459688;BingoBoingo;Which you now have
1904522;1553459750;hanbot;unwashed poptards << lol another in the bucket of BingoBoingo's Choicest Cut Neologisms
1904523;1553459777;BingoBoingo;Anyways chonkin, cutting out poptard noise is one of the biggest drivers here http://trilema.com/2016/ideological-history-of-the-republic/
1904524;1553459807;mircea_popescu;poptarts!!!
1904525;1553459813;BingoBoingo;ty hanbot. I don't recall finding that one in the wild. May actually be new coinage.
1904526;1553459849;mircea_popescu;i suspect it is yea
1904527;1553459869;BingoBoingo;Apparently it has been used before, but in a very different sense https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=poptard
1904528;1553459930;BingoBoingo;I meant in the sense of someone slowed and crippled by excess communion with popular things
1904529;1553460062;mircea_popescu;"Wildly influential pop celebrity with absolutely no intelligence. This is usually from the perspective of the parents of kids who listen to / emulate the tard in question."
1904530;1553460066;mircea_popescu;i suppose it works.
1904531;1553460113;mircea_popescu;!!up chonkin
1904532;1553460113;deedbot;chonkin voiced for 30 minutes.
1904533;1553460128;chonkin;Oh sorry.  I happen to consider "Marxism" to be the writings of the german economist Karl Marx.  I understand recent history has blurred this considerably.
1904534;1553460144;chonkin;I just consider it idle  economics hypothesizing like any other theory of macroeconomics
1904535;1553460150;mircea_popescu;chonkin, pm deedbot !!up then !!v the challenge string.
1904536;1553460497;mircea_popescu;and otherwise, what i'm saying that "the german economist karl marx" is not different from "the methodist minister john heyl vincent" or "the public woman simone farrow" or whatever. i guess if you're related you're interested in the epitaph, but otherwise the cemeteries are full of "names". these names do not bear any consequence, nor do they last all that long.
1904537;1553460537;mircea_popescu;nor are they properly called names, really. the plebs don't get names per se, rather the ~names~ get plebs associated now and again.
1904538;1553460589;mircea_popescu;whence you see things like https://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/karl/marx "top 10 karl marx profiles"
1904539;1553461099;chonkin;okay
1904540;1553461224;chonkin;I wouldn't say things like Keynesian economics is a "dangerous ideology"
1904541;1553461355;BingoBoingo;I wouldn't either. It's just a destructive fad.
1904542;1553461496;mircea_popescu;what's wrong with just calling it a fashion ?
1904543;1553461537;chonkin;Stalin was trained in the  dark arts of writings of Brother Karl Marx , in particular his principle opus,  The Incantation of Lord Communis
1904544;1553461553;mircea_popescu;i mean, at some point there was this widespread belief that an island of warrior women exists somewhere.
1904545;1553461567;chonkin;From this he gained incredible power to take over Russia and throw the countryside into darkness and misery
1904546;1553461573;mircea_popescu;fiction is fiction, what's the problem with that. especially if it's entertaining.
1904547;1553461607;chonkin;I mean, before  Lenin, the  Russians were highly lliterate,  they all owned their own land and drove their kids to soccer practice in minivans.
1904548;1553461610;chonkin;Yep -- just like that.
1904549;1553461648;mircea_popescu;chonkin, the belief that "stalin learned dark arts from writing" is specifically why i mentioned roosh in the list earlier -- it's exactly like "ima learn how to get laid from writings", pure and simple http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904458 nonsense.
1904550;1553461648;a111;Logged on 2019-03-24 19:46 nicoleci: in continuing hystericals, https://bondageinternational.com/Hypnotism/coverthypnotism/
1904551;1553461701;mircea_popescu;or, if you prefer, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600
1904552;1553461701;a111;Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
1904553;1553461706;mircea_popescu;the two aren't in any sense distinct anyway.
1904554;1553461732;chonkin;mircea_popescu  I mean *phew*  Stalin really needed those dark magical powers to take down a thriving free market of russia,  ya know  with all its strong private land ownership,  and thriving middle class :]
1904555;1553461801;mircea_popescu;it's unclear to me there was much strenght in imperial russia. seems more like a collection of rural mini-socialism ("mirvniki", w/e) which stalin integrated. kinda how this works, dropplets of the same thing join up.
1904556;1553461845;chonkin;(To be more serious about this)  Stalin didn't do anything really original if you look at how monarchs and other petty princes operated since Rome
1904557;1553461878;mircea_popescu;turned the item from state a, "a thin sliver of french-wankists atop a million village-sized ancestral communisms" into state b, "a thin sliver of rarara nation-of-soviet bureaucrats atop a unified communism 30mn strong"
1904558;1553461887;mircea_popescu;chonkin, exactly right.
1904559;1553461893;chonkin;You take over the judiciary and then weaponize it against your political enemies. Then you use it to protect your buddies in crime.   I think jefferson called these 'mock trials'  in the DOI
1904560;1553461946;mircea_popescu;well, no, judiciary was entirely inconsequential. this is just you know, "liberal democracy" wank. the judiciary neither existed nor figured in either russian politicas or russian discourse. it was an army matter.
1904561;1553462015;BingoBoingo;Pepe Mujica went to prison for being a theiving terrorist, not for being a leftist
1904562;1553462024;mircea_popescu;moreover, "the judiciary" doesn't exist and doesn't figure as a matter of course ; with the exception of a particularly tenous attempt at empire building by the anglos, coupla centuries ago, "the judiciary" is ~same as "the bugaboo"
1904563;1553462058;chonkin;Or you could do what most americans did in the 1950s -- which is to just run around saying Stalin picked up the Dark Side of the Force by reading Marx --  mystical books which "infused him with evil powers"
1904564;1553462091;chonkin;Even to this day, when they place  Stalin's coat near house plants  they wilt and die in a week.
1904565;1553462099;BingoBoingo;Most Americans in the 1950's live high on the hog because the rest of the Industrial world was bombed to shit in the 1940's
1904566;1553462113;mircea_popescu;hence both http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-20#1903638 and http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ or http://trilema.com/2013/the-endless-story-of-korea/
1904567;1553462113;a111;Logged on 2019-03-20 17:57 mircea_popescu: "conviction" of public person / functionary / official in orclands 100% "usg.blue interference" by now.
1904568;1553462198;chonkin;Well,  ya know Ronald Reagon  rode to Berlin on a unicorn and knocked the Wall of Stalin down with a lightsaber,.  (..or something like that)
1904569;1553462208;mircea_popescu;where was that link of alf's!
1904570;1553462270;mircea_popescu;the future view on ww2
1904571;1553462393;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876445 << there we go.
1904572;1553462393;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 17:42 asciilifeform: was transparently http://pbfcomics.com/comics/now-showing/
1904573;1553462453;chonkin;Master Jedi Reagan drove his staff and parted the waters.
1904574;1553462551;mircea_popescu;i suppose running into the republic is quite the source of mental dissonance huh.
1904575;1553464241;*;trinque puzzles at chonkin's point here.
1904576;1553464387;trinque;what is it that lives behind the symbol "marx" in your head that you'd like to bring forward?
1904577;1553464456;chonkin;trinque  I worry that  Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro are being given free reign to define him.
1904578;1553464507;trinque;these are people who have reign within which to define someone?
1904579;1553464508;chonkin;So Peterson is running around saying Marxism is a form of egalitarianism.   And  then saying that this stuff about  non-binary genders with  strange pronounds is "marxist feminism"
1904580;1553464540;BingoBoingo;Peterson also tells kids to clean their rooms and eat nothing but beef. Weirdos do weird shit
1904581;1553464721;chonkin;BingoBoingo  I was answering trinque's question. That is all
1904582;1553464770;trinque;chonkin: what's the truetrue marxism then? the marxissismus?
1904583;1553464817;BingoBoingo;Anyways, cultural marxism is a thing where some group tries to apply hegel's dialectic but uses the more popular Marx brand
1904584;1553464882;chonkin;Yeah Ive heard this  "cultural marxism is invading the universities".    But _whatever that means_ to those spouting it,   it is only happening on the humanities side of campus
1904585;1553465012;chonkin;SO
1904586;1553465015;BingoBoingo;That they use a weird label doesn't mean the stupidity ratchet isn't being turned where it can be turned http://trilema.com/2018/the-stupidity-ratchet/
1904587;1553465048;chonkin;There was push-back and drama regarding this issue of "affirmative action" in the workplace. And the  Fox-newsy crowed bemoaned a  kind of reverse racial profiling against white males
1904588;1553465052;chonkin;"quotas" they called them
1904589;1553465086;chonkin;Universities don't operate by the rules of the outside world.  They take affirmative action seriously and totally implement quotas
1904590;1553465123;chonkin;they also have these things called "micro-aggressions"  where you are not allowed to ask an obviously forign professor with a thick accent where he "Came from"
1904591;1553465165;chonkin;These university  'cultural rules'  are taken completely seriously and you can be fired  , demoted,  puniushed. expelled
1904592;1553465191;trinque;what do you imagine is to be done about it?
1904593;1553465212;BingoBoingo;There were also all sorts of places on the campuses I wasn't "allowed" to piss, where I did indeed piss after spirited drinking.
1904594;1553465386;chonkin;http://trilema.com/republican-thesaurus/#selection-257.0-263.0
1904595;1553465404;chonkin;"Cuck, current contraction of older cuckold, is a male that deems what women have to say intrinsically importantvi. The term for a male that wants the women he owns fucked by others is pimp, and yes it's a kinkvii, entirely unrelated to economic exchangeviii. "
1904596;1553465406;chonkin;lmao
1904597;1553465888;mircea_popescu;chonkin, i think that's very much wishful thinking, "only happening on humanities side". mit has been churning out strictly illiterate "graduates" for decades now.
1904598;1553465942;mircea_popescu;in fact, it'd be my considered opinion that humanities, as sadly represented by say [http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/][that wykeham moron] nevertheless are doing way the fuyck better than sciences. a 17% vs 2% sorta comparison.
1904599;1553465993;mircea_popescu;but in any case, i don't know anyone who seriously believes "universities" are either important, noteworthy, or influential. for ~same money could discuss "canasta clubs" or w/e.
1904600;1553466113;mircea_popescu;so -- if you don't like the strange rules the old women at the canasta club came up with, one very obvious, wide and practical avenue would be to... find something more age, gender, circumstance and mental-nonimpaired appropriate to do with your evenings.
1904601;1553467375;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/03/24/pizarro-isp-march-24th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP March 24th Update
1904602;1553467595;chonkin;mircea_popescu   Well the cultural marxism   (Whatever that is)   sneaked into MIT  when that one  physics professor was instantly fired for sending something to a female student over email
1904603;1553467612;chonkin;An email whose contents were considered "inappropriate"  (likely sexual)
1904604;1553467671;chonkin;Walter Lewin
1904605;1553467679;chonkin;he was beloved of every undergraduate on that campus
1904606;1553467687;chonkin;He taught introductory physics at MIT
1904607;1553467718;chonkin;After being instantly fired for sending a naughty email,   there was a debacle about whether he owned the rights to his own videos shot during his lectures
1904608;1553467764;*;chonkin sighs
1904609;1553467803;chonkin;"Sexual harrassment" was supposed to be a recognition of constant, perpetual ongoing sexual imposition into conversation that created a constant atmosphere of toxicity for female employees.
1904610;1553467817;chonkin;constant
1904611;1553467818;chonkin;repeated
1904612;1553467819;chonkin;on-going
1904613;1553467856;chonkin;Well -- the universities got a ahold of this idea.  And now a single flub-up  by a  highly respected  and beloved professor was sufficent grounds fo immediate termination
1904614;1553468023;chonkin;In early December, 2014, MIT announced that it had determined that Lewin engaged in online sexual harassment of an online MITx learner in violation of MIT's policies.[1] Inside Higher Ed reported that this learner was one of many (at least 10) female students to whom Lewin had sent inappropriate messages.
1904615;1553468779;chonkin;ahh
1904616;1553468780;chonkin;that reminds me
1904617;1553468810;chonkin;In the same 'venue'  where I was called "shithead" and placed on  "permanent ignore"  I also tried to describe the use of eugenics as a method of healing disease
1904618;1553468821;chonkin;The push back was over-the-top
1904619;1553469540;mircea_popescu;!#s lewin
1904620;1553469541;a111;7 results for "lewin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=lewin
1904621;1553469545;mircea_popescu;right.
1904622;1553469702;mircea_popescu;chonkin, the part that you're missing here is that "universities" are no longer doing anything. consequently, they no longer matters. this comes way before any "severed ties".
1904623;1553469820;mircea_popescu;and no, oif course he doesn't "own rights". that's both why you're supposed to make y0our own blog, rather than rely on some usg.scammer platform (be it called "facebook" or "mit", it makes exactly no difference, all the products of socialism are the same product).
1904624;1553469925;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904617 << you mean like http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/#selection-251.0-261.20 ?
1904625;1553469925;a111;Logged on 2019-03-24 23:06 chonkin: In the same 'venue'  where I was called "shithead" and placed on  "permanent ignore"  I also tried to describe the use of eugenics as a method of healing disease
1904626;1553470993;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904513 -> what we is that chonkin ?
1904627;1553470993;a111;Logged on 2019-03-24 20:32 chonkin: Yeah well the methods were adopted by every economist after him.  We still read articles about how  "rent prices are driven up by the presnce of large tech companies"   and  we watch  CNBC and BLoomberg on our flat TVs and they speak at length of the "unemployment rate"
1904628;1553471344;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904605 << see also oblig. : >> http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/
1904629;1553471344;a111;Logged on 2019-03-24 22:47 chonkin: he was beloved of every undergraduate on that campus
1904630;1553474820;asciilifeform;oh hrm loox like BingoBoingo already linked.
1904631;1553474962;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-24#1904623 << on paper same in all of reich academitardia; but mit is specifically famous for enforcing the 'you dun own yer face' thing. it's how the bolix story came to be, for instance.
1904632;1553474962;a111;Logged on 2019-03-24 23:23 mircea_popescu: and no, oif course he doesn't "own rights". that's both why you're supposed to make y0our own blog, rather than rely on some usg.scammer platform (be it called "facebook" or "mit", it makes exactly no difference, all the products of socialism are the same product).
1904633;1553475172;asciilifeform;seems like 'respectable academics'(tm)(r) will put up with just about any diameter of spiked anal road cone tho, considering that they put up with 'pay elsevier page fees and in exchange they own 100% rights to errything you printed' etc
1904634;1553475318;asciilifeform;when patient dun seem to even blink from cone insertion , the natural response is to give him bigger cone. i fully expect the process will continue in this vein
1904635;1553475443;asciilifeform;e.g. at some pt they will hit on the idea of retro-reassigning publication credits to a properly orthodox http://trilema.com/2013/fried-chicken/ when a prof is defrocked, say.
1904636;1553475454;asciilifeform;or hell knows what else similar.
1904637;1553475621;asciilifeform;it's imho small step from the current state of art ,
1904638;1553475624;asciilifeform;!#s mit phuctor
1904639;1553475624;a111;5 results for "mit phuctor", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mit%20phuctor
1904640;1553475626;asciilifeform;^ e.g.
1904641;1553475693;*;asciilifeform goes back to writing test cases set for ch18
1904642;1553479252;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in argentine lulz : asciilifeform notices rubber leg from lappy loose on desk. thinks 'could've sworn i glued this one last mo'. grabs tube of cyanoacrylate, same as with which. then notices 'industria argentina' on tube, turns out it's the 1 bought in BingoBoingostan! i had nfi it was physically possible to fuck up even ~this~...
1904643;1553483056;billymg;hanbot, mircea_popescu, anyone else interested: i just finished deploying the latest mp-wp patch to my site and published the files here http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/
1904644;1553483155;billymg;the patch removes tinymce, most of the importers, and some unused plugins -- overall reduction of about 15% in lines of code and close to 20% in size on disk (since some of the files removed were minified files containing only one line)
1904645;1553483212;billymg;will put together a post about it too but i'll have to get to that later this week
1904646;1553489459;feedbot;http://thewhet.net/2019/03/mp-wp-patch-for-enabling-html-comments/ << The Whet -- MP-WP Patch for Enabling HTML Comments
1904647;1553515039;phf;hanbot, billymg i've refreshed the patches http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mp-wp
1904648;1553517110;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, o yeah. imagine that! sovok cyanoacrylate, aka aracet (polyvinyl acetate, elmer;s glue).
1904649;1553517215;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mp-wp&search= << keks they ended up diverged. normally i'd ask hanbot to regrind, except this is a large patch that needs some reading, so would you mind regrinding it on top of hers billymg ?
1904650;1553517334;mircea_popescu;and need i say it is SUCH A FUCKING PLEASURE to read vpatchs.
1904651;1553517359;mircea_popescu;i dunno how anyone continues on the old style. it's like.... jesus. it's inconceivable.
1904652;1553517474;mircea_popescu;phf, why does http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_remove-tinymce-and-other-crud not look the same as http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_html-comments-enabled ? i want ?inlinep=true FOREVAR!!!!
1904653;1553517505;mircea_popescu;i don't give a shit if it makes 50mb pages. for THIS, and i know of no other use (perhaps "full list of comments on blog article"), any length is legitimate use of the mbs.
1904654;1553517562;billymg;mircea_popescu: sure thing, i'll update to have it patched on top of hanbot's latest
1904655;1553517580;mircea_popescu;ty.
1904656;1553517896;mircea_popescu;phf, and since i'm doing whining : can there be an alternate mode where lines are always interleaved, like in [http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_update-image-references-to-svg][this beauty] ? eg, http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_add-footnotes-and-textselectionjs#selection-5661.0-5158.160 and http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_add-footnotes-and-textselectionjs#selection-5335.0-5158.58 needn't appear that far apart (leaving asi
1904657;1553517896;mircea_popescu;de how they needn't appear at all, item wasn't changed -- is it specifically because of whitespace ? because honestly, one extra tab shouldn't produce a "new line of code".).
1904658;1553521089;mircea_popescu;* chonkin (~katyab@c-75-67-100-34.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has left #trilema << keks, too much is too much after all ?
1904659;1553522759;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in the neverending lulz : russia is gonna help venezuela nao.
1904660;1553522774;mircea_popescu;must suck to be pantsuit/usgistani true believer these days.
1904661;1553523974;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904648 << i still buy good old pva. there's afaik no substitute for it for paper (i.e. b00kz)
1904662;1553523974;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 12:31 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, o yeah. imagine that! sovok cyanoacrylate, aka aracet (polyvinyl acetate, elmer;s glue).
1904663;1553523989;mircea_popescu;yes, but as such.
1904664;1553524033;asciilifeform;fwiw the argentine tube contains sumthing visually resembling actual cyanoacrylate. it's simply defective in some subtle way.
1904665;1553524050;mircea_popescu;bleached pva!!!
1904666;1553524064;asciilifeform;prolly in fact diluted.
1904667;1553524101;mircea_popescu;i suspect working solvent more expensive than the solute in this case lol
1904668;1553524201;asciilifeform;i also thought this.
1904669;1553524497;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904657 << the classic diff algo, sadly , sees whitespace as 'changed line' (not even sure this is wrong, even, in some sadlangs whitespace is significant) .
1904670;1553524497;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 12:44 mircea_popescu: de how they needn't appear at all, item wasn't changed -- is it specifically because of whitespace ? because honestly, one extra tab shouldn't produce a "new line of code".).
1904671;1553524537;asciilifeform;also produces gargantuan patches if you simply move routines , this is a perennial headache to asciilifeform
1904672;1553524631;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1904673;1553524707;mircea_popescu;i'd like this narrowed if not entirely solved.
1904674;1553526724;nicoleci;hey mircea_popescu, i can do your http://trilema.com/2019/get-lost-dumbo/ horror stories one better: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LInbA/?raw=true
1904675;1553526724;nicoleci;the tales from the underircrypts continue!!!
1904676;1553526922;mircea_popescu;ahahaha
1904677;1553526927;mircea_popescu;dork's romanian, too.
1904678;1553527147;nicoleci;oh, there's all sorts. * You have been kicked from #sexe by Aquavelva (Banni: Tu es sur un canal shitlisté ici)
1904679;1553527248;mircea_popescu;keks
1904680;1553527406;nicoleci;but in fairness, also a lot of http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0gpZW/?raw=true
1904681;1553527543;mircea_popescu;dude, check that shit out. a) romanian is the 2nd language, after pinoy english ? b) hardcore dude, PopaIonel.
1904682;1553527982;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-truebeliever-socialist/ << Trilema -- The Truebeliever Socialist
1904683;1553528016;mircea_popescu;nicoleci, what network is that, anyway ?
1904684;1553528050;nicoleci;mircea_popescu, undernet
1904685;1553528099;mircea_popescu;who was talking to networks besides mod6 btw ? did undernet say anything ?
1904686;1553528555;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904673 << asciilifeform several times tried his hand at 'what if nonclassical diff', these are in the logs. but mircea_popescu barfed, and i dun even disagree, thus far nobody's thought of a moar human-readable diffism than the traditional one
1904687;1553528555;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 14:38 mircea_popescu: i'd like this narrowed if not entirely solved.
1904688;1553528593;asciilifeform;( e.g. say you want to compactly represent moves of blocks of text. nao you need... a stack ? etc )
1904689;1553528737;asciilifeform;shitlisté << lol!
1904690;1553529209;asciilifeform;re diffs -- it ~is~ possible to make a 'any small change WILL result in a small diffism' diff algo. but, i suspect , not possible to make it naked-eye readable. and, conversely, naked-eye readable diff is , i suspect, necessarily ~same as the classical.
1904691;1553529397;asciilifeform;( 1 of the old thrds, for ref, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-05#1596596 )
1904692;1553529397;a111;Logged on 2017-01-05 00:29 asciilifeform: so, one possible diff might be : \4\i'm \+15\quite certainly \80\not fucking learning an aminoacid matrix to be able to use diff i tell you that
1904693;1553529817;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, ok, but leading whitespace ?
1904694;1553529830;mircea_popescu;caqn you even give example of lang besides bash where this matters ?
1904695;1553529833;asciilifeform;leading whitespace is syntactic in e.g. python
1904696;1553529841;mircea_popescu;meh
1904697;1553529845;asciilifeform;( and lol, cobol, fortran77, etc )
1904698;1553529940;hanbot;mircea_popescu, so wait, are you saying that the "black people & crime" thing is purely an internal debate of socialism, pitting the pantsuit against the [http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-30#1718541][more progressive] TS faction in the attempt to establish "which parts of ideal socialism relate to me more"?
1904699;1553529940;a111;Logged on 2017-09-30 00:40 mircea_popescu: in a sense, the "fascists" are more progressive than the "progressive"
1904700;1553530078;mircea_popescu;that;s exactly what i'm saying.
1904701;1553530134;mircea_popescu;moreover, check out the similar pattern of reaction to alterity : someone's unimpressed with this "marx" symbol ? must be immaturity! because the only 0-cost explanation of difference would be... "the different hasn't yet matured into us". anything else, profoundly threatening to the narc^Hsocialist.
1904702;1553530152;mircea_popescu;0-cost folk are 0-cost folk, what can you do.
1904703;1553530222;hanbot;and here i'd've thought self-explanation, assembly, noisemaking etc carried *some* cost.
1904704;1553530443;mircea_popescu;socialist accounting of costs is a thing of wonder. obviously no such thing as 0-cost exists in nature, but they're ideal sorta folk.
1904705;1553531120;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, even IF in fact whitespace is meaningful, i still want the lines interlaced rather than chunked blocks i have to scroll up and down for.
1904706;1553531160;asciilifeform;aha. would require a sub-line difftron tho, as i understand.
1904707;1553531211;mircea_popescu;i can't readily say what it is i actually want algorithmically, which is why i'm not even certain it can be had. but the scrolling hurts my precious inner child.
1904708;1553531311;mircea_popescu;hanbot, it's not even coincidental that the pantsuit used "ts" as in trans-sexualism to liberate themselves from the traditional ("reds") socialist mindset and erupt like puss from a scab.
1904709;1553531342;mircea_popescu;because, specifically, reds have a lot more trouble dealing with alterity than blues. the blue has little trouble with alterity because they're mostly mentally retarded, no strong notions of self.
1904710;1553531376;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect that to guarantee pleasant-to-read diff, one has to specifically write proggy in certain style, and that the problem aint otherwise solvable in the general case
1904711;1553531384;mircea_popescu;in a sense, the children have taken over the insane asylum -- to anyone outside they make just as good mental patients as the older ones ; but inside they move quicker and are more vivacious, which are natural advantages.
1904712;1553531398;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, this may even be, but i'd rather unearth the style than not.
1904713;1553531480;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: who are in this context 'reds' and 'blues' ? ( presumably not the 2 usg armies mircea_popescu earlier argued have long ago merged into 1 ? )
1904714;1553531521;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, well, in immediate context, the fellow from yest, preoccupied with "violent crime". in general, "republicans" up to 1980s or so.
1904715;1553531537;mircea_popescu;but yes, the scab cracked ~synchronously with $america-ended
1904716;1553531603;mircea_popescu;the guys to whom assange attempted to leak, basically. the "public opinion", whatever.
1904717;1553531642;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'preoccupation with crimes' also comes in diff. variants. consider e.g. lafonde, vs the typical ameri-suburbanite who has never so much as personally seen a homo-lafondicus with naked eye but nevertheless fixated , etc
1904718;1553531717;mircea_popescu;fair enough.
1904719;1553531743;mircea_popescu;how do you say "burghezo-mosieresc" in ru ? term as in "Despre politica externă antinațională a guvernelor burghezo-moșierești din România, în timpul politicii imperialiste de așa-zisă 'neintervenție' "
1904720;1553531767;mircea_popescu;that was lenin's identification of the reds in his own party.
1904721;1553531788;asciilifeform;буржуй lol
1904722;1553531809;asciilifeform;( muchly corrupted vs. the orig., but iconic term )
1904723;1553531812;mircea_popescu;what, no composed term ?!
1904724;1553531835;mircea_popescu;town-and-country-propertyowners or somesuch. bourgeois-and-landholder
1904725;1553531912;asciilifeform;буржуазно-помещичья , i suppose. but pretty strong aura of 'limba de lemn' there
1904726;1553531945;asciilifeform;the archaetypical red army fella , beating up the designated kulak, will say simply буржуй .
1904727;1553531995;mircea_popescu;yeah, is what i was going for.
1904728;1553532030;asciilifeform;oblig : 'Всіх панів до ’дної ями, Буржуїв за буржуями Будем, будем бить! Будем, будем бить!'(tm)(r)(pavlo tichina)(ukr)
1904729;1553532116;asciilifeform;( ~= 'all the landlords down one hole, burzhuy by burzhuy, we will, we will beat, we will, we will beat' )
1904730;1553532124;hanbot;meanwhile billymg phf mircea_popescu et al my patch from last night needed a reground, sorry for the pain in the ass. http://thewhet.net/2019/03/mp-wp-patch-for-enabling-html-comments/
1904731;1553532688;hanbot;nope, fuck me, still broken. i'm going to have to regrind again, meanwhile i have meattasks in town. this'll be done today.
1904732;1553539351;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1904733;1553539352;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1904734;1553539363;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo]; !!!
1904735;1553539364;pehbot;asciilifeform: foofoofoo
1904736;1553539381;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo]; @bar@[bar]!;  @baz@[baz]!; !
1904737;1553539381;pehbot;asciilifeform: bazbarfoo
1904738;1553539408;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo]; @bar@[bar]!;  @baz@[baz]!!; !
1904739;1553539408;pehbot;asciilifeform: bazbarfoobarfoo
1904740;1553539415;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo]; @bar@[bar]!!;  @baz@[baz]!!; !
1904741;1553539415;pehbot;asciilifeform: bazbarfoofoobarfoofoo
1904742;1553541545;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/usg-leveraging-discord-in-the-home-to-disarm-americans-illinois-moving-ammo-serialization-bill-through-legislature/ << Qntra -- USG Leveraging Discord In The Home To Disarm Americans, Illinois Moving Ammo Serialization Bill Through Legislature
1904743;1553542071;BingoBoingo;^ 500 counts of Class A Misdemeanor could be yours for the low price of 19.59 USD and presence in Illinois after January 1st, 2020
1904744;1553542679;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc california had this prior
1904745;1553542695;asciilifeform;( they're the beta test lab for erry possible usgidjicy afaik )
1904746;1553543073;BingoBoingo;Nope, not even California
1904747;1553543197;BingoBoingo;California's derp is the gun stamps the case with gun's number
1904748;1553543270;BingoBoingo;This is for the ammo to be in illinois, maker has to serialize bullets plus + 0.005 USD tax per bullet so Illinois can bungle a tracking system
1904749;1553543292;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904634
1904750;1553543292;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 00:55 asciilifeform: when patient dun seem to even blink from cone insertion , the natural response is to give him bigger cone. i fully expect the process will continue in this vein
1904751;1553543305;asciilifeform;( why not $1M tax ? )
1904752;1553543309;asciilifeform;$1B!!!
1904753;1553543327;BingoBoingo;Rather big leap in cone sizes
1904754;1553543344;asciilifeform;it was how 'war on drugs' kicked off, 'tax stamp' on opium, where 'tax' was $maxint
1904755;1553543360;asciilifeform;originally the talmud^H^H^H^Hlegalism required this 'hack'
1904756;1553543421;BingoBoingo;Well not max int. Big int that would now be fairly small int because inflation and debasement.
1904757;1553543446;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it was maxint in that usg wouldn't actually sell the tax stamp anywhere
1904758;1553543483;asciilifeform;( in early 1900s, there was a fiction that fed gov 'only has power to tax', and so ban was dresses as a 'tax' )
1904759;1553543572;BingoBoingo;Well, Lincoln and Seward already happened. Place already on going to shit course.
1904760;1553556518;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in altcoin lulz, http://archive.is/l0nM4
1904761;1553564793;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, trinque BingoBoingo mod6 asciilifeform phf lobbes spyked ave1 : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/c0QfD/?raw=true
1904762;1553565310;BingoBoingo;ack
1904763;1553565414;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ack
1904764;1553565555;*;mircea_popescu thumbsup
1904765;1553581652;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904731 << http://thewhet.net/2019/03/mp-wp-patch-for-enabling-html-comments/ ; updated phf billymg mircea_popescu et al.
1904766;1553581652;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 16:51 hanbot: nope, fuck me, still broken. i'm going to have to regrind again, meanwhile i have meattasks in town. this'll be done today.
1904767;1553586847;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: ack
1904768;1553589994;mircea_popescu;meanwhile on topics of "usg, the latest socialism", i very warmly recommend kennan's 1947 sources of soviet conduct.
1904769;1553589999;mircea_popescu;"Now it lies in the nature of the mental world of the Soviet leaders, as well as in the character of their ideology, that no opposition to them can be officially recognized as having any merit or justification whatsoever. Such opposition can flow, in theory, only from the hostile and incorrigible forces of [???]"
1904770;1553590016;mircea_popescu;"dying capitalism" / "racism" whateveretcetera.
1904771;1553590038;mircea_popescu;"ignorant racism & homophobia" i suppose
1904772;1553590711;mircea_popescu;"On the principle of infallibility there rests the iron discipline of the Communist Party. In fact, the two concepts are mutually self-supporting. Perfect discipline requires recognition of infallibility. Infallibility requires the observance of discipline. And the two go far to determine the behaviorism of the entire Soviet apparatus of power. But their effect cannot be understood unless a third factor be taken into accou
1904773;1553590711;mircea_popescu;nt: namely, the fact that the leadership is at liberty to put forward for tactical purposes any particular thesis which it finds useful to the cause at any particular moment and to require the faithful and unquestioning acceptance of that thesis by the members of the movement as a whole. This means that truth is not a constant but is actually created, for all intents and purposes, by the Soviet leaders themselves. It may v
1904774;1553590712;mircea_popescu;ary from week to week, from month to month. It is nothing absolute and immutable -- nothing which flows from objective reality. It is only the most recent manifestation of the wisdom of those in whom the ultimate wisdom is supposed to reside, because they represent the logic of history. The accumulative effect of these factors is to give to the whole subordinate apparatus of Soviet power [http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-w
1904775;1553590717;mircea_popescu;ont-fucking-yield/][an unshakable stubbornness and steadfastness] in its orientation. This orientation can be changed at will by the Kremlin but by no other power. Once a given party line has been laid down on a given issue of current policy, the whole Soviet governmental machine, including the mechanism of diplomacy, moves inexorably along the prescribed path, like a persistent toy automobile wound up and headed in a give
1904776;1553590722;mircea_popescu;n direction, stopping only when it meets with some unanswerable force. The individuals who are the components of this machine are unamenable to argument or reason, which comes to them from outside sources. Their whole training has taught them to mistrust and discount the glib persuasiveness of the outside world.
1904777;1553590728;mircea_popescu;Like the white dog before the phonograph, they hear only the "master's voice." And if they are to be called off from the purposes last dictated to them, it is the master who must call them off." Thus the foreign representative cannot hope that his words will make any impression on them. The most that he can hope is that they will be transmitted to those at the top, who are capable of changing the party line. But even those
1904778;1553590733;mircea_popescu; are not likely to be swayed by any normal logic in the words of the bourgeois representative. Since there can be no appeal to common purposes, there can be no appeal to common mental approaches.
1904779;1553590736;mircea_popescu;and so following.
1904780;1553591896;mircea_popescu;"The present generation of Russians have never known spontaneity of collective action. If, consequently, anything were ever to occur to disrupt the unity and efficacy of the Party as a political instrument, Soviet Russia might be changed overnight from one of the strongest to one of the weakest and most pitiable of national societies."
1904781;1553608199;spyked;mircea_popescu, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tDzln/?raw=true
1904782;1553610350;trinque;mircea_popescu: ack
1904783;1553611885;lobbes;mircea_popescu: ack
1904784;1553612508;phf;ack
1904785;1553612652;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904652 << i'll look into reasons. i believe right now there's no caching of any kind, vpatch is pre-parsed in-memory, but the rendering happens fresh everytime.
1904786;1553612652;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 12:37 mircea_popescu: phf, why does http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_remove-tinymce-and-other-crud not look the same as http://btcbase.org/patches/mp-wp_html-comments-enabled ? i want ?inlinep=true FOREVAR!!!!
1904787;1553612714;phf;nginx knows how to cache items properly, but backend doesn't send proper headers yet, to indicate invalidation. there's really no reason anything in btcbase/patches needs to rerender itself everytime, but the relevant bits are not in place.
1904788;1553614950;BingoBoingo;In discoveries, Spain has a pantsuitist party named "Podemos"
1904789;1553615177;mircea_popescu;phf, on the other hand, re-rendering is not ~that~ expensive for text.
1904790;1553617617;mircea_popescu;spyked, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8l8Az/?raw=true
1904791;1553618439;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EZQdZ/?raw=true
1904792;1553619550;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/eu-parliament-endorses-new-copyrasty-regime/ << Qntra -- EU Parliament Endorses New Copyrasty Regime
1904793;1553621172;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/chicago-drops-all-16-felony-charges-against-hate-hoaxer-jussie-smollet/ << Qntra -- Chicago Drops All 16 Felony Charges Against Hate Hoaxer Jussie Smollet
1904794;1553621218;mircea_popescu;keks
1904795;1553621239;mircea_popescu;never happened, huh. ~SOCIAL~ JUSTICE!!!
1904796;1553621812;BingoBoingo;Well, Chicongo is an Obamaville
1904797;1553627348;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904773 << seems to me that kennan had a problem with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704268
1904798;1553627348;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 08:58 mircea_popescu: nt: namely, the fact that the leadership is at liberty to put forward for tactical purposes any particular thesis which it finds useful to the cause at any particular moment and to require the faithful and unquestioning acceptance of that thesis by the members of the movement as a whole. This means that truth is not a constant but is actually created, for all intents and purposes, by the Soviet leaders themselves. It may v
1904799;1553627348;a111;Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
1904800;1553627369;BingoBoingo;In the saga of http://pizarroisp.net/?p=82&preview=true#selection-17.41-17.91 satisfaction has been recieved.
1904801;1553627384;asciilifeform;aaand in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904776 , with http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-12#792148 ...
1904802;1553627384;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 08:58 mircea_popescu: n direction, stopping only when it meets with some unanswerable force. The individuals who are the components of this machine are unamenable to argument or reason, which comes to them from outside sources. Their whole training has taught them to mistrust and discount the glib persuasiveness of the outside world.
1904803;1553627384;a111;Logged on 2014-08-12 02:19 TimSwanson: Because that's how normal debates work
1904804;1553627414;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, well yes, he's TS.
1904805;1553627427;asciilifeform;and i dun even know what to make of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904780 -- wat 'collective action' exactly?
1904806;1553627427;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 09:18 mircea_popescu: "The present generation of Russians have never known spontaneity of collective action. If, consequently, anything were ever to occur to disrupt the unity and efficacy of the Party as a political instrument, Soviet Russia might be changed overnight from one of the strongest to one of the weakest and most pitiable of national societies."
1904807;1553627442;mircea_popescu;you wanted an example of "red", did you ?
1904808;1553627460;mircea_popescu;dominant in the us, but in 19~47~
1904809;1553627471;asciilifeform;i'll buy. ( mircea_popescu will also find it entertaining that kennan was ~the~ 'sovologist' taught in asciilifeform's ameri-school )
1904810;1553627504;mircea_popescu;he was factually very influential "russian blue expert for to explain to american red how does the blue relate to me"
1904811;1553627531;asciilifeform;entirely tru
1904812;1553627545;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, cool deal then!
1904813;1553627835;BingoBoingo;I got the plata back. Picking up different beefier machine tomorrow from a vendor in centro.
1904814;1553627840;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i pictured '1947 'red' not as kennan et al tho, but as e.g. patton, churchill, et al - the folx who were ready to rearm germany an' proceed straight into ww3, and had to be stfu'd by the brass strictly on acct of truman having insufficient nuke pile (iirc atm ~7 or so)
1904815;1553628030;mircea_popescu;i don;t have a very clear view of patton ; but churchill is exactly as much a socialist as the whole temperance movement. he was unequivocally identified as such by ~all contemporaries, what, just because dumb soviet kid never heard of churchill other than for one newspaper notice dated 1945 this means something ? by the time hitler came to power churchill had been an openly socialist politician for a decade+
1904816;1553628053;asciilifeform;i can't picture how to argue that c ~wasn't~ a socialist
1904817;1553628084;mircea_popescu;so i dunno that there's a substantial difference, ideologically, between kennan and churchill.
1904818;1553628108;mircea_popescu;the latter's a little more fopish and sophisticated, but then again the former's born in whichever unknown swamp amidst our colonies.
1904819;1553628122;mircea_popescu;in the words of their national anthem, "he puts a feather in his cap and calls it macaroni"
1904820;1553628129;asciilifeform;lolyes
1904821;1553628172;asciilifeform;(waithefuq did that stop being the official anthem, i wonder. it's entirely appropriate..)
1904822;1553628237;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fwiw in sovokistan churchill is moar famous as architect of intervention in '18
1904823;1553628250;asciilifeform;than for his '40s 2nd career
1904824;1553628270;asciilifeform;a la 'bob the bridge-builder'
1904825;1553628311;mircea_popescu;(likbez : as grand tours became popularized, in the interim before cook's mass commercialization thereof, a lot of 2nd hand british elite kids were exposed to italian fashion and atmosphere ; gained an appreciation of aforeunknown pasta, ie maccaroni, and started a whole epicene fashion including ridiculous dress and assorted faggotry.
1904826;1553628331;asciilifeform;'aspirational product'(tm) or how did tlp put it
1904827;1553628377;mircea_popescu;poor but stupid yankee kids, hearing of something in that vein, imagined the ~same can be obtained not only very cheaply, but importantly using only items accessible -- the only enduring ideology of that place. and so... the yankee is moronic enough to act as if a feather suffices to be 2nd line english elite.)
1904828;1553628433;mircea_popescu;i dunno why don't they just put the "fuel economy magnets" people in congress directly. properly speaking, there's no other substance to "america".
1904829;1553628468;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they moar or less ~are~ 'in congress directly'
1904830;1553628473;mircea_popescu;a ok then.
1904831;1553628525;asciilifeform;incidentally '50s usa had own version of term for 'aspirational product'. popular decoding of auto brand 'pontiac', famously, was 'poor old nigger thinks it's a cadillac'
1904832;1553628622;BingoBoingo;AHA
1904833;1553628648;BingoBoingo;That one survives
1904834;1553628657;BingoBoingo;Not the brand, but the decoding
1904835;1553628676;mircea_popescu;lol
1904836;1553628678;asciilifeform;re 'in congress directly' -- anyone recall the congressderp who had zombie-esque blue skin from taking 'colloidal silver' patent medicines ?
1904837;1553628691;mircea_popescu;yes! though not by name
1904838;1553628691;asciilifeform;iirc as recently as clinton era
1904839;1553628706;mircea_popescu;apparently idiots don't get names, they get collapsed into the tree of their stupidities.
1904840;1553628795;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/5MBP << possibly him
1904841;1553629689;BingoBoingo;In local lols: https://www.subrayado.com.uy/cubanos-desencantados-uruguay-acampan-frente-la-embajada-nicaragua-una-visa-irse-n529769 "Argumentan que nuestro país es caro y que la plata no les alcanza. Si bien reconocen que Nicaragua tiene dificultades, están más cerca de su país."
1904842;1553629757;mircea_popescu;keks someone wants to go to nicaragua!
1904843;1553629774;mircea_popescu;(they're prolly trying to get into costa rica illegally, as nobody here can distinguiush nicas and mexicans. but anyway)
1904844;1553630033;bvt;hello. i did not manage to finish work on mes report part 2 last week, and i don't have a possibility to do any work this week. i plan to finish it around weekend next week.
1904845;1553630047;bvt;linux bootstrap with actual mes is way more disappointingto stage0 components (the claim is 'c compiler is scheme and scheme interpreter in c', but in fact they require bash, patch, tar, etc. for the bootstrap).
1904846;1553630119;asciilifeform;bvt: seems like mircea_popescu's original eyeball verdict was 100% on target? i.e. 'mes' is a pile o'shit masquerading as they usually do for a solution
1904847;1553630121;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Well, Cubans.
1904848;1553630155;mircea_popescu;bvt, did you identify any live ones among the authors/participants ?
1904849;1553630242;mircea_popescu;!#seen erlehmann
1904850;1553630242;a111;2017-10-19 <erlehmann> good night
1904851;1553630249;mircea_popescu;what became of that dood, incidentally.
1904852;1553630258;asciilifeform;!#s esthlos
1904853;1553630258;a111;509 results for "esthlos", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=esthlos
1904854;1553630262;asciilifeform;err,
1904855;1553630264;asciilifeform;!#seen esthlos
1904856;1553630264;a111;2018-10-23 <esthlos> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864316 << apologies alf, I'm running behind! trying to gather time to get caught up in the next week or two
1904857;1553630272;asciilifeform;^ prolly went to same place.
1904858;1553630337;bvt;OriansJ in #bootstrappable has a notion of hygiene (at least basic, ie groks fits-in-head), and still works on the stage0; i had no interaction with janneke (mes author) yet, so can't make claims about him. he does make some noise in the #bootstrappable and #guix
1904859;1553630338;mircea_popescu;bvt, http://archive.is/febOU#selection-255.67-255.135 challenge specifically offers you excellent entry point : there's a bunch of contact details available, what's "me" resolve to as a provision endpoint.
1904860;1553630355;asciilifeform;pretty sad, imho : esthlos wrote a++ log summaries, a working vtron, possibly other items i cant recall
1904861;1553630376;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1904862;1553630476;bvt;asciilifeform: they claim that it is work-in-progress, but in fact c compiler that manages to compile tcc may be less then 10% of required work.
1904863;1553630490;asciilifeform;at least Framedragger was under the notion that he'd get to fuck mermaids at the bottom of his sea, or what was it.
1904864;1553630552;bvt;i also don't like how at the 'mes' stage a linux kernel 'magically' appears as the underlying substrape, while stage0 parts are designed to work without os
1904865;1553630651;asciilifeform;bvt: imo c is intrinsically broken ~conceptually~ as a bootstrapping lang ( entirely aside from how it is broken as a ~platform~ lang, re which subj asciilifeform has entire www... ) -- in that it intrinsically demands a massive pile of nickel and dime utils ( bash, 'make', etc ) to work as usable platform
1904866;1553630692;mircea_popescu;moreover, i dunno of any well working bootstrappers for whatever embedded  / mircro / whatever you take application that actually bootstraps on c
1904867;1553630725;asciilifeform;bvt: the other thing, is the 3-ring circus aspect of elaborately dethompsonizing a box in order to... bring up 1M+line of linusolade
1904868;1553630771;mircea_popescu;i suspect though the earlier discussion of "what do we want for a scripting language" is deeply if unobviously related to "what is bootstrap done by"
1904869;1553630810;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904859 << that 'me' was OriansJ, if wiki change log can be trusted
1904870;1553630810;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 19:58 mircea_popescu: bvt, http://archive.is/febOU#selection-255.67-255.135 challenge specifically offers you excellent entry point : there's a bunch of contact details available, what's "me" resolve to as a provision endpoint.
1904871;1553630829;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'bootstrap' concept in that thread was specifically re 'what coupla kB can you start with in rom that would actually let you build the entire os', rather than the traditional 'boot' process , not to be confused with
1904872;1553630847;mircea_popescu;bvt, so put the matter to him plainly, "look, the republic is considering this, either come over and make your case or what d oyou want to do" ?
1904873;1553630856;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, yes.
1904874;1553630913;mircea_popescu;but look how it mirrors what we want from a putative tmsr.php or tmsr.xml or tmsr.tcl or w.e!
1904875;1553630969;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, e.g. ch18 peh actually worx as 'a php' (i.e. can do string substitutions and elementary arithmetics... )
1904876;1553630984;mircea_popescu;quite.
1904877;1553631000;mircea_popescu;and it ~might~ even be a candidate bootstrap language.
1904878;1553631018;asciilifeform;somewhat heavy ram-wise for a general-purpose script lang tho
1904879;1553631028;mircea_popescu;no. because see, THAT is a false constraint.
1904880;1553631040;mircea_popescu;we don't need the bootstrapper to fit in x kb.
1904881;1553631053;mircea_popescu;that's in fact one of the few parts where the historical constraint bears no relevancy today.
1904882;1553631055;asciilifeform;oh thing per se could easily fit in coupla kb
1904883;1553631066;asciilifeform;problem is that you eat at least 256bit to add 1+1
1904884;1553631080;mircea_popescu;i didn't mean the code, i meant the ram it needs to function.
1904885;1553631088;bvt;asciilifeform: yes, ending up with the same gnu stuff is pretty sad work result
1904886;1553631097;mircea_popescu;there's no hard and fast requirement that the bootstrapper needs to use less than the full system memory, which is mb in any case.
1904887;1553631111;asciilifeform;bvt: not merely 'sad result'. sad ~objective~. recall, it was his ~objective~ to bring up gnustack.
1904888;1553631166;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's other constraints, e.g. peh is quite certainly not optimized for random-access on large data set , there is no support for even such thing as array
1904889;1553631171;mircea_popescu;ie, being economical re bootstrap ram is one of the dumbest things i can think of. beats "penny wise and pound foolish" by 2+ degrees of magnitude in folly.
1904890;1553631179;asciilifeform;thing is really meant for sequential work on relatively compact items
1904891;1553631184;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, hence ~might~. but anyways.
1904892;1553631204;mircea_popescu;it's not directly obvious to me that "random access" in this particular context is not disease sympthom.
1904893;1553631225;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: per the current instruction set, you could not write e.g. 'unzip' in it
1904894;1553631229;mircea_popescu;so ?
1904895;1553631263;asciilifeform;or a 2pass compiler. or anyffin that gotta walk a substantial length of bits >1ce
1904896;1553631265;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1904897;1553631275;mircea_popescu;yet maybe you don't actually have to.
1904898;1553631308;mircea_popescu;i'm not disposing of the matter. i'm just keeping it open, and specifically because these sorts of things are by now reflex in the malfunctioning brains of "it experts". oh, small ram footprint of bootstrapper. oh, random access.\
1904899;1553631323;mircea_popescu;oh fuck your sister atop your mother, whynot.
1904900;1553631489;*;mircea_popescu will import by reference the story of mel. what "random access", it's onlty random if you don't know what you're doing and at bootstrap phase the item's too close to starting position to have complexity-exploded out of your hands already as a matter of necessity.
1904901;1553631529;mircea_popescu;the dood's historical blackjack playing program is a better model of "bootstrapper" than what you find in average "systems design" in orclang books.
1904902;1553631776;mircea_popescu;but in any case no such thing as "random" exists in the fucking machine --- if it did, you wouldn't need to buy fg's for it, now would you.
1904903;1553631997;mircea_popescu;obviously (i would hope) i'm not proposing any naive solution will necessarily work well ; i'm just saying that it's not obvious to me a smart solution isn't available somewhere. in point of fact not merely p, but ~the whole class of things for which it stands as a most illustrative example~ is, if arguably not new, in any case the continuation of work in fields and along lines neglected for at least three if not more than
1904904;1553631997;mircea_popescu; five decades.it's just not very well explored yet.
1904905;1553632635;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'random' in 'random access' is imho an unfortunate misnomer.
1904906;1553632646;asciilifeform;rly oughta be 'arbitrary access'
1904907;1553632686;mircea_popescu;yes, it is, translates bizarre pantsuit notions of "randomness" ; nevertheless the point stands if renamed : arbitrary, and who's the arbiter ? Nike the goddess ?
1904908;1553632693;bvt;mircea_popescu: i'll try to get him into #trilema on the weekend
1904909;1553632705;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re 'do you really need arbitrary access so often' : recall knuth's 'centerfold' page in vol.2 of aop
1904910;1553632712;asciilifeform;where he had the 'algos for N tape decks'
1904911;1553632713;mircea_popescu;for instance.
1904912;1553632730;asciilifeform;you can do a surprising amt with N tape decks that ordinarily 'demands randomaccess'
1904913;1553632734;mircea_popescu;because no, this is a cop-out, "oh, it's arbitrary". like the poorly trained cook, "arbitrary use of tools"
1904914;1553632804;asciilifeform;all of this being said, i suspect mircea_popescu would still barf if to e.g. fetch a trilema pg, 5km of tape had to move a full circle.
1904915;1553632829;mircea_popescu;but we are very specifically not discussing what to do to read trilema. we're discussing what to do at a relatively early stage of bootstrap!
1904916;1553632872;asciilifeform;( recall incidentally the fate of 'bubble memory.' mega-invention, btw. d00d discovered that you dun need a tape deck to use tape, in a certain config of magnetic field, you can make the bits on tape ~walk~ in circles. and r/w'em as they move past a particular spot. )
1904917;1553632926;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: right. and , interestingly, the coupla-1000fold diff b/w main ram speed and that of cache , on current-day irons, has just about brought back the age of tape algo
1904918;1553632943;asciilifeform;even if 'nobody knows it yet'
1904919;1553632971;asciilifeform;'random access' is a very expensive illusion .
1904920;1553632982;mircea_popescu;this observation is a major driver of the foregoing.
1904921;1553632990;mircea_popescu;"nobody", except us.
1904922;1553633187;asciilifeform;in re peh in particular, the 'tape' model i picked consciously, and not simply in re the terminology to call the proggies 'tapes'. thing is built so that all motion is , albeit non-monotonically, forward ( e.g. subroutine can call another sub, but only one defined ~earlier on the tape~ from the place where called; and all subs ~must~ either reach their termination point, or produce verdict & halt the process , there is no 'goto' )
1904923;1553633213;asciilifeform;all subs have 1 valid termination point, there is no early 'return'; ditto loops ( as of ch18 )
1904924;1553633252;asciilifeform;all of this, is to 1) make easier to 'fit in head' the flow of a pehtape by eyeballing 2) reduce cachemiss sidechannel chatter
1904925;1553633520;asciilifeform;note that just about any iterative algo can be rewritten in this form. ( just that ~nobody ever bothers , typically )
1904926;1553633574;mircea_popescu;it's also not yet so clear that it's worth doing.
1904927;1553633588;mircea_popescu;but perhaps this is the place to find out.
1904928;1553633622;asciilifeform;imho it's not only worth doing, but absolutely must be done if yer working with reasonably compact pieces of safety-critical proggy
1904929;1553633632;mircea_popescu;(note also, but importantly, that one doesn't have to write peh by hand anymore than he has to write asm by hand. there's perfectly conceivable one has an optimizing pehpiler.)
1904930;1553633675;asciilifeform;( in fact ada per se has a fascism knob that, if set, prevents early return from subroutines . i have not thus far used, cuz in ffa per se this is already the case, nuffin gets to terminate early when 'constant time' algo )
1904931;1553633734;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is entirely conceivable that someone may want to bake 'peh compiler' . but intent of design is specifically for it to be entirely usable without any such thing, with reasonable effort.
1904932;1553633747;mircea_popescu;no argument there.\
1904933;1553633757;asciilifeform;( peh per se is a 'peh compiler', arguably, in that it can and does produce peh tapes as output, this is how e.g. keygen worx )
1904934;1553633786;mircea_popescu;but consider the converse problem : if it comes to it, am i going to order the re-implementation de novo of gcc's backend by republican hands ? why MUST it be c ?
1904935;1553633809;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, yes! in the other perspective : BECAUSE IT IS ITS OWN BOOTSTRAPPER!!!
1904936;1553633828;asciilifeform;no good reason imho to try to keep c on life support in long term. it's done enuff damage to the field.
1904937;1553633879;mircea_popescu;if peh can be its own bootstrapper quite so transparently nobody notices, then maybe it is actually a good general purpose bootstrapping tool. maybe.
1904938;1553633979;mircea_popescu;in any case, a very tentative possible repoublican alternate machine can be already intuited : if p backend is welded to gcc;s frontends, one can code in ada (or c#, why not), compiler for p-machine and live happily ever after.
1904939;1553634044;mircea_popescu;"oh but mp, this is undemocratic -- some programming styles or high level assumptions will result in ~unusable tapes, 1mnx bloated". "precisely." "but this means not all programmers aree equal anymore". "duh"
1904940;1553634094;asciilifeform;i would not presently go as far as to say 'peh is ~the~ bootstrapper' ( current peh cannot even output a raw byte... ) but suspect that the solution will have approximately its shape.
1904941;1553634107;mircea_popescu;conceivably.
1904942;1553634126;mircea_popescu;as i said, i'd like to keep this open.
1904943;1553634164;asciilifeform;imo peh is considerably closer to a tabletop model for sane iron cpu, than to bootstrapper for x86 etc
1904944;1553634189;mircea_popescu;yet -- if it works as a bootstrapper it works as a bootstrapper ; and if it does not we understand why and wherefore.
1904945;1553634198;mircea_popescu;a most useful abstraction / model, in any cas.e
1904946;1553634248;asciilifeform;in re bootstrappers, i'll also add that the problem itself is disastrously misunderstood by most folx who tried hand at it, specifically in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-18#1903170
1904947;1553634248;a111;Logged on 2019-03-18 15:31 asciilifeform: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-29.94-29.340 << imho ~100% of the attempts on record , made exactly same mistake -- they assumed that 'architecture-specific aspects creep into the design of the boostrapping process' only concerns ~what is there~ in the arch, and not ~what is not there~ (e.g. sane memory management, type tags) . if you dun put the complexity of certain necessary sanities where it belongs -- i
1904948;1553634276;mircea_popescu;hence the profanity.
1904949;1553634319;asciilifeform;there was an old mircea_popescu piece , where , 'some people - stupid in particular way, and think that if they buy big enuff house, it will never have to be cleaned'
1904950;1553634365;asciilifeform;the 'bootstrap to c + linux' people make this exact mistake. 'look, i wrote this compact bootstrapper, nao i can breathe out and start wallowing in my familiar pointerolade an' nulltermstrings pigsty again'
1904951;1553634421;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-20#801609 << oblig re subj
1904952;1553634421;a111;Logged on 2014-08-20 01:01 asciilifeform: '…like a refugee from very rural Pakistan who gets relocated to Oslo, Norway, and still thinks that he could make better food if he were only allowed to light a fire in his living room instead of using that complex electric stove. (This is a real news item.  Every now and then, landlords discover indoor fireplaces and occasionally the “newbies” to civilization burn down the building.)' (herr naggum)
1904953;1553634640;mircea_popescu;meanwhile since we're doing this kinda thing, let me reiterrate the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886466 discussion.
1904954;1553634640;a111;Logged on 2019-01-13 14:29 mircea_popescu: this is a matter of best practices that's by its nature a republican standard candidate, so i'd very much like to hear the esteemed lordship.
1904955;1553634739;BingoBoingo;It's an interesting road.
1904956;1553634944;mircea_popescu;in another order : an ada prototype for db interaction, at the very least with mysql and postgres, would probably get imported into a lot of projects. anyone has one unpublished ? anyone wanna write ?
1904957;1553635037;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand , this one would need either tcpism (not written yet) or unixsocketism (also afaik not written, aside from the sad adacorpse implementation in gnat std lib)
1904958;1553635093;mircea_popescu;it'd require something, that';s for sure.
1904959;1553635103;mircea_popescu;but in point of fact we gotta weld ada to db already, what.
1904960;1553635108;asciilifeform;ideally what you'd want imho is a sane db solidly in ada, rather than coupla mil+ loc of c ??? . but this may be bridge too far just yet.
1904961;1553635131;mircea_popescu;aha.
1904962;1553635138;diana_coman;if it's about wants, I can throw in that I want a sane computer already!
1904963;1553635146;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's mmap thing (ideally a working ver of the latest iteration, but even the original 'horsecocks') already gives ability to write simple , fast db, for uncomplicated schemas
1904964;1553635185;mircea_popescu;yes well. so does my pen.
1904965;1553635200;asciilifeform;( in the last iteration , the 1 that presently dun build on acct of gnat bug , you simply make any data structure you like in ada, and it persists to disk. )
1904966;1553635228;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not at 'pen' stage , but prototyped, iirc i posted an example with trad btc tx.
1904967;1553635354;mircea_popescu;yes man, but trad dbs do a lot of things, including http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-15#1872293 ; i can appreciate the "fuck this mn lines of c" argument, but this isn't the time to feather-macaroni just yet.
1904968;1553635354;a111;Logged on 2018-11-15 02:29 asciilifeform: phuctor ( and in particular, some of the 'heavier' / unusual pheatures, like search ) i baked specifically around postgres.
1904969;1553635515;asciilifeform;they do.
1904970;1553635566;asciilifeform;having since '13 when 1st touched the subj, actually rftm'd, i'm not even prepared to say that 'who needs all those things'
1904971;1553635629;asciilifeform;but i also suspect that even 'all those things' dun actually require mil+ loc.
1904972;1553635641;asciilifeform;if sanely architected on sane abstration tower.
1904973;1553635707;mircea_popescu;no argument there ; also so far, let's just first get a wrapper.
1904974;1553635713;mircea_popescu;can use mmap etc to fix the substance later.
1904975;1553635744;asciilifeform;shortest path to wrapper would be a http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2557 -style skin for unixsocketism.
1904976;1553635781;asciilifeform;then can talk to mysql etc. just like trinque's cl proggy does
1904977;1553635882;asciilifeform;i'll add that even a tcp skin wouldn't be entirely useless ( right nao the only way to write a wwwistic proggy in ada is to use adacorpse's 'gnatsockets' crock of shit )
1904978;1553635907;asciilifeform;and not only wwwistic, but e.g. irc bot
1904979;1553635912;mircea_popescu;might tbe a better route, esp if it delivers a cheap way to a tcp-based republican web, to replace the www.
1904980;1553635938;asciilifeform;asciilifeform sees tcp as a legacy tech, really
1904981;1553635946;asciilifeform;rather than reasonable foundation for anyffin new
1904982;1553635963;asciilifeform;but prolly cannot escape to have a glue for it, while we sit on irc , load www for various uses, etc
1904983;1553636980;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904962 << not to let this escape; i'd actually be quite interested to read diana_coman's own thoughts re what is a sane comp. ( asciilifeform wrote at great length re the subj, would also like to see where folx disagree / expand )
1904984;1553636980;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 21:18 diana_coman: if it's about wants, I can throw in that I want a sane computer already!
1904985;1553637020;asciilifeform;ftr i do not have any notion that http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 is 'last word on subj'
1904986;1553637126;asciilifeform;if nuffin else, some of asciilifeform's demands re 'sane comp' are in architectural tension with others ( rather like to ask 'i want sword that cuts other swords, but isn't brittle' )
1904987;1553637859;*;asciilifeform currently suspects that '1 sane comp for all problem domains' is a misapprehension of the problem, and that '1 for crypto, 1 for other things' is merely the beginning of it.
1904988;1553637887;asciilifeform;theoretically what is 'sane' for machine to fiddle with proggies on, is not appropriate for server, or for ciphertron, etc
1904989;1553638185;asciilifeform;( to take simple example, you defo want cache on server, but it is absolutely lethal on ciphertron )
1904990;1553638269;asciilifeform;the 'meta-sanity' arguably is that operator oughta be able to at least switch off the cache. ( you cannot, e.g., on x86, switch off l0 cache )
1904991;1553638321;asciilifeform;likewise, operator at least oughta have the ~option~ of 'all MULs take same # of cycles', even if no one wants this on server.
1904992;1553638415;asciilifeform;( incidentally, 'can redefine cpu instructions in boot rom for custom kompyooting' dun require fpga etc. fancy modern tech, e.g. dec alpha had it )
1904993;1553638443;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: mimi down ?
1904994;1553638994;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-june-july-and-august-1715-part-i/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of June, July and August, 1715. - Part I.
1904995;1553639783;mod6;mircea_popescu: ack
1904996;1553647864;asciilifeform;wb Mocky
1904997;1553647872;Mocky;thx asciilifeform
1904998;1553648125;Mocky;I'm going to finish moving my blog over to mpwp this week. I expect I'll need some pizarro assistance for go-live. Then Imma post remaining handful of Qatar posts, including video of my address to Doha derpchain gathering.
1904999;1553648135;Mocky;after that i'll have free hands looking for somthing to do
1905000;1553648151;asciilifeform;Mocky: neato
1905001;1553648282;Mocky;i suppose learning v will be in order
1905002;1553648328;asciilifeform;Mocky: the [http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system][likbez by ben_vulpes] is still imho the gold standard
1905003;1553648379;asciilifeform;( even tho it is about the ancient proof of concept vtron, with old-style hashes etc., re the basic mechanics it is still 100% correct )
1905004;1553648455;asciilifeform;imho v is the simplest, mechanically, versionatron ever baked. so i dun expect Mocky will have much of problem
1905005;1553648539;Mocky;I think I get it but havn't used yet, other than a trb build from online that didn't require much thinking.
1905006;1553648852;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot
1905007;1553648853;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.
1905008;1553648868;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo].0{;}; QY
1905009;1553648869;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 14 IP: 14 Symbol: ';' : Conditional Return in Sub: 'foo' is Prohibited! (Please check for unbalanced '{'.)'
1905010;1553648925;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo].1,; ! QY
1905011;1553648925;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 24 IP: 13 Symbol: ',' : Currently in a Subroutine; but this Op exits a Loop state !
1905012;1553648943;asciilifeform;!A :;  QY
1905013;1553648943;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 2 IP: 2 Symbol: ';' : Currently in a Loop state; but this Op exits a Subroutine !
1905014;1553648955;asciilifeform;^ final draft of ch18.
1905015;1553648982;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo][;]; ! QY
1905016;1553648983;pehbot;asciilifeform: foo;
1905017;1553648989;asciilifeform;!A @foo@[foo]([;]); ! QY
1905018;1553648990;pehbot;asciilifeform: foo
1905019;1553648995;asciilifeform;^ does Right Thing .
1905020;1553649019;asciilifeform;i'ma leave the bot alive nao , for if anyone wants to play.
1905021;1553649049;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> I'm going to finish moving my blog over to mpwp this week. I expect I'll need some pizarro assistance for go-live. Then Imma post remaining handful of Qatar posts, including video of my address to Doha derpchain gathering. << Let me know what you need
1905022;1553649222;asciilifeform;!A @foo@.3R*; .3!!!#
1905023;1553649223;pehbot;asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000051
1905024;1553649260;Mocky;BingoBoingo: once i get everything imported to my satisfaction on mockyhabeeb.com I'd like to cut over to mocky.org, so apache config I think
1905025;1553649357;asciilifeform;!A @aa@[a].7:!.1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
1905026;1553649357;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 59 IP: 11 Symbol: '!' : No Subroutines were defined prior to this position!
1905027;1553649362;asciilifeform;err
1905028;1553649364;asciilifeform;!A @aa@[a].7:.1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
1905029;1553649364;pehbot;asciilifeform: cbaaaaacbaaaaacbaaaaa
1905030;1553649411;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Aite, just let me know when
1905031;1553649418;Mocky;will do
1905032;1553649447;asciilifeform;!A @aa@[a]; LC @bb@[b]@aa!; RC @bb!
1905033;1553649447;pehbot;asciilifeform: ba
1905034;1553649452;asciilifeform;!A @aa@[a]; LC @bb@[b]@aa!; RC @aa!
1905035;1553649452;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: FATAL: Tick: 32 IP: 32 Symbol: '!' : Attempted movement to IP: 5 violates the Cutout!
1905036;1553649456;asciilifeform;^ the Right Thing.
1905037;1553649465;asciilifeform;that's pretty much it.
1905038;1553649535;asciilifeform;ffa_calc.adb : 1665 loc .
1905039;1553649539;Mocky;peh looks quite interesting
1905040;1553649702;asciilifeform;!A @aa@.7:[a].1-",_; @bb@[b].5:!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
1905041;1553649702;pehbot;asciilifeform: cbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
1905042;1553649733;asciilifeform;!A @aa@.7:[a].1-",_; @bb@.5:[b]!.1-",_; .3:[c]!.1-",_
1905043;1553649733;pehbot;asciilifeform: cbaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaacbaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaacbaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaabaaaaaaa
1905044;1553649741;asciilifeform;aanyway
1905045;1553649813;asciilifeform;Mocky: most battlefield pehtapes , i expect, will be ~much~ easier to read than these ( e.g. will include comments, an' meaningful names ) . these, are simply micro demos that fit in log line
1905046;1553650101;asciilifeform;at some pt i'ma publish the emacs majormode for editing pehs. it is ~much~ easier with colours etc
1905047;1553650145;asciilifeform;but imho 1st it oughta become 'second nature' for the n00b , to read the examples with naked eye
1905048;1553650165;Mocky;indeed so
1905049;1553650170;asciilifeform;it oughta be , after study, entirely obvious from single eyeball walk why each 1 does what it does
1905050;1553650266;asciilifeform;any given piece of peh tape cannot refer to anything that lies to the right of it, ergo 1 walk suffices
1905051;1553650314;mircea_popescu;Mocky, pressing something's a good idea, for sure, even if it's just some patches on mp-wp chain say.
1905052;1553650325;mircea_popescu;item should be ~the most accessible if i had to guess.
1905053;1553650344;mircea_popescu;but otherwise, what sounds good ? you wanna do the ada db wrapper for instance ?
1905054;1553650409;mircea_popescu;or you wanna try your hand at http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128270 ?
1905055;1553650642;Mocky;ada sounds good. I'm not sure if db wrapper is a good starting point though, maybe work up to it
1905056;1553650969;Mocky;start with perhaps: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-26#1904977
1905057;1553650969;a111;Logged on 2019-03-26 21:31 asciilifeform: i'll add that even a tcp skin wouldn't be entirely useless ( right nao the only way to write a wwwistic proggy in ada is to use adacorpse's 'gnatsockets' crock of shit )
1905058;1553651027;mircea_popescu;that could work, sure.
1905059;1553651148;mircea_popescu;other than that, a) if you'd rather mostly deal with c legacy codebase you could also work with diana_coman on an eulora client ; b) if you'd rather do evanghelism work the original job in the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-19#1903518 line is still open -- you could work to advertise your castle in heathenworld (leverages pizarro directly ; and if you're serious about not leaving the ushithole you can incorporate it regula
1905060;1553651148;a111;Logged on 2019-03-19 23:18 mircea_popescu: if anyone recalls, at that time the intended republic-sponsored kegger party at the site of some anti-usg rebellion died over portland's apparent failure to produce beer & sluts under ben_vulpes 's direction.
1905061;1553651148;mircea_popescu;rly as a church and all that line).
1905062;1553651188;mircea_popescu;ie, there's a lot both tech and non tech holes to fill.
1905063;1553651643;Mocky;I am serious about finding a way out of mordor. I'm interested in both tech & non tech hole filling: giving the matter due consideration so as to avoid http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828117
1905064;1553651643;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 16:22 mircea_popescu: if you just run by whatever shines you'll get overwhelmed and then depressed at how the sand sucks effort with no visible return.
1905065;1553651721;mircea_popescu;well, im not sure i follow what;s going on, but didn't you execute a 1. i must pay dubaloos so and so a month to landlord therefore -> 2. i must take job in empire and thus logically -> 3. gotta live there ?
1905066;1553651917;Mocky;I did. And now I'm going to find a way out that doesn't involve poverty.
1905067;1553652013;mircea_popescu;so basically what you're saying is that you're only firmly decided to stay in us for the ~mid term~ as opposed to "more than that" ?
1905068;1553652061;Mocky;Yes. and also firmly decided to make the mid term as short as possible
1905069;1553652114;mircea_popescu;well, mid term is mid term, what, three, five, ten years. none of the items described there are longer commitments anyway, you can totally get a church going in the mid term -- if it goes anywhere i'm sure there'll be who wants to take over if / when you feel like leaving.
1905070;1553652150;Mocky;i have no objection to that line of thinking
1905071;1553652197;mircea_popescu;basically the discriminant there was "decided to staay or leave ? if stay, x, if leave, dunno, maybe go to paraguay see if can help bingo get that hardware shop off the ground or something"
1905072;1553652271;mircea_popescu;(i kinda suspect BingoBoingo would do a lot better with a partner on the grounds, tbh)
1905073;1553652296;mircea_popescu;uruguay*
1905074;1553652416;Mocky;staying in mordor for now.
1905075;1553652435;mircea_popescu;aite, well, see what works for you!
1905076;1553652568;Mocky;is this that evanglism thing? http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-15#675799
1905077;1553652568;a111;Logged on 2014-05-15 04:08 benkay: http://www.followthecoin.com/dogepdx-portlands-biggest-dogecoin-party/
1905078;1553652657;mircea_popescu;naah.
1905079;1553652665;mircea_popescu;the original discussion was, sec lemme find it...
1905080;1553652700;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-03#1359583 << there.
1905081;1553652700;a111;Logged on 2016-01-03 12:57 mircea_popescu is contemplating paying for some kegers.
1905082;1553652717;Mocky;ahh, thx
1905083;1553652746;mircea_popescu;the context was, some farmers were disputing usg's territorial claim, and it'd have been a decent opportunity for some keks. free beer, collegiate sluts, get a party going, let the landsknecht deal wirth it
1905084;1553652766;mircea_popescu;(same exact blueprint that's working quite so splendidly to embarass french pantsuit these days, exactly)
1905085;1553652815;mircea_popescu;item crumpled over absent grassroots. not that it's hard to remedy : get a church registered, organize donation campaigns, get some real estate and run events off it, there you go.
1905086;1553652979;mircea_popescu;the place is quite ripe for it, on one hand lots and lots and lots of useless and idle youth, on the other hand large paper fortunes desperate for some protection. can very well get paid to "protect the household" while selling tickets to rape the wife, it's 100% a opera buffa sorta sittuation.
1905087;1553653038;Mocky;"go to qatar" "start a church" ... crazy shit I tell you
1905088;1553653039;mircea_popescu;all that's needed is the proper an' adequate supply of pippins der kurzen
1905089;1553653076;mircea_popescu;Mocky, i'm just laying it on the table, plainly. i'm not trying to force you into nonsense.
1905090;1553653109;Mocky;I only say that because on some level it appeals
1905091;1553653122;Mocky;what's pippins der kurzen?
1905092;1553653133;mircea_popescu;yeah. but the contrary consideration's certainly sound, "let's do things in the order they can be done in, as opposed to any other."
1905093;1553653161;mircea_popescu;Mocky, pepin the short was the original carolingian king of the franks. started career as exactly that, "being paid to guard the household while selling tickets to rape the wives"
1905094;1553653235;mircea_popescu;"mayor of the palace", whatever.
1905095;1553653431;Mocky;I had a dream 3 nights ago that I walked down a row of 4 houses and banged on each door as I went past yelling "send our your oldest girl" and the doors all opened and 4 female lions came running out as if to chase and attack me. But I stared them down and told them they are with me now. Apparently they were talking lions because they all said "ok" and then followed me as I walked off.
1905096;1553653451;mircea_popescu;is this you trying your hand at mosesing ?
1905097;1553653492;Mocky;actual dream. and now i'm heading to bed
1905098;1553653496;mircea_popescu;anyway, i'm sure you can get decent chunks of dubaloos directly from fiat "government" for "outreach work with disadvantaged youth".
1905099;1553653517;mircea_popescu;same exact youth that then go and bludgeon police into the ground. rinse, repeat, scale up, take over.
1905100;1553653520;mircea_popescu;and nighty-night.
1905101;1553679038;mircea_popescu;and for the rotaku club : https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/A_zecea_muz%C4%83 (one of caragiale's best satires, utterly destructuring "modern" world.)
1905102;1553700400;BingoBoingo;Local cop shop burglarized: https://archive.is/Tbxb5
1905103;1553701159;billymg;Mocky: i plan to have my recent remove-tinymce patch updated to go on top of hanbot's this weekend, if you'd like to use for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1904998
1905104;1553701159;a111;Logged on 2019-03-27 00:55 Mocky: I'm going to finish moving my blog over to mpwp this week. I expect I'll need some pizarro assistance for go-live. Then Imma post remaining handful of Qatar posts, including video of my address to Doha derpchain gathering.
1905105;1553701227;billymg;a freshly pressed copy of the divergent patch found here http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mp-wp&search= has been running on my blog since sunday though
1905106;1553701296;billymg;and i did pretty thorough local QAing before publishing, but having more testers would be great
1905107;1553706855;mircea_popescu;billymg, if you're happy with it, one thing you could do is patch your testing suite as an alternate patch off mp-wp genesis ; this way people looking to test can just use it (and patch atop it if need be) rather than write from scratch.
1905108;1553706855;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: Sent 2 hours and 53 minutes ago: <spyked> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mtpZa/?raw=true
1905109;1553706924;mircea_popescu;same goes for  whoever else has a good testing suite for whatever they're maintaining : publishing a "devel" branch, including testing and whatever else tooling in that vein is certainly a legitimate use of forking the v tree.
1905110;1553706997;mircea_popescu;this way, someone looking to test presses to both heads and voila. it has the potential to significantly improve the quality of testing done, both in the sense of total and highwater mark.
1905111;1553707053;mircea_popescu;mtpza, srsly ?
1905112;1553707059;mircea_popescu;i guess it wasn't mtpzd, at least....
1905113;1553707438;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> (i kinda suspect BingoBoingo would do a lot better with a partner on the grounds, tbh) << I suspect similar
1905114;1553708299;mircea_popescu;well in the meanwhile stop burning so much incense on the melancholy temple. idle hands an' all  that!!
1905115;1553708590;BingoBoingo;Well, walks are getting easier now that the wind and chill is clearing the locals off the riverwalk
1905116;1553708665;mircea_popescu;it's started here, the wind. it'd be tornado level anywhere else, it freely moves the damned car on the highway, "what the fuck, is my direction shot what the fuck is this ?!" "just windy" "holy shit!"
1905117;1553708758;BingoBoingo;The extremes were more extreme back on the plains of old country, but here the baseline level of air movement is quite a bit higher.
1905118;1553708965;mircea_popescu;!!up grangerstranger
1905119;1553708965;deedbot;grangerstranger voiced for 30 minutes.
1905120;1553708970;mircea_popescu;grangerstranger, who the hell are you then ?
1905121;1553709012;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: fwiw everything I published v-versioned has the tests included as a subdir with its own .gpr file and all that; I'm not sure a fork of the V-tree is really needed for this (i.e. deleting a whole dir is easier than maintaining a for as far as I see it atm).
1905122;1553709047;diana_coman;a fork not a for, lol
1905123;1553709084;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, word. it's more a thing for something like mp-wp, which is a sort of enduser app so to speak, than something like eucrypt that's basically a library, or in any case a building block intended for use in forging.
1905124;1553709160;diana_coman;I can see it, yes.
1905125;1553709222;diana_coman;re grangerstranger it's really that those never talking actually are ghosts even if poked? what a surprise
1905126;1553709266;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, there's a pronstarlet the naming reminds me of.
1905127;1553709285;mircea_popescu;https://twitter.com/kimmygrangerxxx
1905128;1553709366;diana_coman;eh, what's to stop stealing internet names if images is too hard; but anyway.
1905129;1553709383;mircea_popescu;nothing, certainly.
1905130;1553709406;diana_coman;"Dudes are out here going to the gym to only work out their arms and chest and constantly skip everything below their torso." aahaha
1905131;1553709421;diana_coman;in fairness though,I'd say it's untrue: there's LOTS of dicking around so they...try!
1905132;1553709433;mircea_popescu;easy enough to check, on the other side. but yes, chick's a cut above the usual dickowsy.
1905133;1553709523;mircea_popescu;"My friends: We really need to start talking nicer to eachother 4 minutes later: “You really are a stupid ass bitch”"
1905134;1553709873;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik 'granger' is today an agricultural gear supplier in usa . ( named after 19th c union thing of some variety )
1905135;1553709884;asciilifeform;so entirely generic string .
1905136;1553709932;mircea_popescu;it was a fleeting momentary thought! such as occurs in my box occasionally! i'm not proposing marriage over here!!1
1905137;1553710039;grangerstranger;what about me?
1905138;1553710088;grangerstranger;unfortunately i got named by friends and it just kinda stuck
1905139;1553710108;asciilifeform;grangerstranger: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905120 . very specific q. got answer ?
1905140;1553710108;a111;Logged on 2019-03-27 17:49 mircea_popescu: grangerstranger, who the hell are you then ?
1905141;1553710113;mircea_popescu;grangerstranger, what do you do for a living and why are you here would be decent starting points.
1905142;1553710116;grangerstranger;im a magical being
1905143;1553710121;grangerstranger;network security
1905144;1553710121;mircea_popescu;a ok.
1905145;1553710124;mircea_popescu;!!down grangerstranger
1905146;1553710148;asciilifeform;gotta wonder re the thought process. door clearly marked 'If you don't know where you are, you shouldn't be here.' eh .
1905147;1553710175;mircea_popescu;no markings are clear in modern democracy. it's written in the constitution : everyone is to be idemnified for all things they do not read.
1905148;1553711029;BingoBoingo;^ Pretty much the divide between Republic and the outside
1905149;1553712379;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/lavare/ << Trilema -- L'avare
1905150;1553712887;asciilifeform;in other noose ! http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6rnvA/?raw=true << prelim. smoke test of ch18 example 2048b prime gen. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/USsFD/?raw=true << sample output with timing. all the primes pass on e.g. wolfram's , if anyone has a favourite 3rdparty litmus, plox to try also when ch18 posted.
1905151;1553712955;asciilifeform;on avg. takes 1 - 50 (worst so far) sec. on the 'standard' test box.
1905152;1553713019;asciilifeform;will post coupla moar outs momentarily.
1905153;1553713196;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4yRiK/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5NJ3N/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0jyWs/?raw=true .
1905154;1553713364;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/eCTfy/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gmIsx/?raw=true http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3184T/?raw=true .
1905155;1553713392;asciilifeform;^ 6 shots .
1905156;1553713476;asciilifeform;grr, timings didn't make it in; range from <1 to 70sec
1905157;1553713814;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, diana_coman , et al ^ plox to comment .
1905158;1553714191;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, what am i commenting on ?
1905159;1553714221;asciilifeform;if the q returned a null, not problem, lol
1905160;1553714250;asciilifeform;example is to illustrate style, i did not particularly doubt that it'd work as described .
1905161;1553714288;mircea_popescu;i dun see the problem, so it takers a minute. current gpg takes as much, and ssh which doesn't is sucja cryptojoke as to not be worth the mention.
1905162;1553714302;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/my-very-own-never-before-published-slut-famous-crab-dip-recipe/ << Trilema -- My very own, never before published, slut-famous, crab dip recipe
1905163;1553714309;asciilifeform;the carryaway is that ( with operating fg ) it'll take <2min to bake a 4096bit key .
1905164;1553714320;asciilifeform;on current ffa ( i.e. no asmisms )
1905165;1553714383;mircea_popescu;nb.
1905166;1553714412;asciilifeform;it's ~= the figure i predicted on napkin, but nao has experimental confirm.
1905167;1553714460;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, koch takes approx same time, and that's with him not using rng witnesses at all iirc...
1905168;1553714475;mircea_popescu;aha.
1905169;1553714477;asciilifeform;prolly on acct of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2906 -ism
1905170;1553714530;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ssh iirc uses ellipticisms by default, so whole own category of joak
1905171;1553714731;asciilifeform;grr, earlier typo, not ~1s fastest of course, but 16 , lol
1905172;1553714739;asciilifeform;~16 - ~70 range.
1905173;1553714827;asciilifeform;granted for actual key will want also random e , and will reject some p,q,e triples based on the obvious rule
1905174;1553714863;asciilifeform;( so i expect will be ~7 min. or so per 4096b key, on iron of this horse )
1905175;1553715150;asciilifeform;for thread-completeness, will add that it is possible to speed up the algo by giving not only 1 'primorial up to width' but it and then whichever number of product(n+1th-prime ... n+i-th prime) that yet again fit in the width, and so forth, for any desired # of small primes, for the initial sieve
1905176;1553715161;asciilifeform;to reduce the # of sad candidates that m-r ends up eating
1905177;1553715226;asciilifeform;( naturally at no point will the algo complete faster than the time eaten by the given # of m-r rounds specified )
1905178;1553715300;asciilifeform;tbh i cannot however think of when or where i would say 'ugh, 10min is too long for baking a 4096b key'..
1905179;1553715346;asciilifeform;( when 1st started ffa, was quite ready to live with 'keygen takes hour+' ftr )
1905180;1553715516;asciilifeform;diana_coman back in the day [http://ossasepia.com/2018/01/04/eucrypt-chapter-4-random-prime-number-generator/#selection-185.189-185.356][posted old-style mpi timings] but i do not know on what irons so cannot readily compare .
1905181;1553715526;asciilifeform;'A relatively short test run obtained 40 random primes of 2048 bits each in 13274 seconds in total (3.7 hours) meaning on average 331.85 seconds per prime (~6 minutes).'
1905182;1553715611;asciilifeform;( also had 'an average of 9.78 seconds per M-R run' , on again i dun presently know which irons )
1905183;1553715646;asciilifeform;tho unless i misread, that ^ figure included 16 iterations thereof, rather than 1
1905184;1553715667;asciilifeform;( in asciilifeform's demo, proggy halts when candidate passes 32 rnds )
1905185;1553715723;asciilifeform;aanyways i expect that when diana_coman gets to eating ch18, we can compare properly .
1905186;1553716070;diana_coman;asciilifeform: timings sounds good to me; I have it on the list to get some timings for comparison when I get to eat full FFA, yes; atm though I can tell for sure that 10 minutes for generating key is both fine and rather fast even.
1905187;1553716096;asciilifeform;diana_coman: no rush, we'll find out how compares on given $iron when you get around to 18 .
1905188;1553716149;diana_coman;on that d1 intel from http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/28/zcx-vs-sjlj-data-set/#selection-113.0-113.85 the tests of eucrypt that generate a key pair take at times ~20 min, just to give an idea
1905189;1553716177;asciilifeform;that's substantially faster box than mine ftr
1905190;1553716209;asciilifeform;( mine, used as ref for all ffa figs, is opteron 2393SE @ 3.1G )
1905191;1553716257;asciilifeform;i also built at various points on a heathen i7 (2.8G) and there runs ~2x faster across the board, ftr
1905192;1553716293;asciilifeform;( the latter not used for any of the published tests, but to simply gauge the effect of 'modern' x86isms . fwiw does have constant-time mul etc )
1905193;1553716441;*;asciilifeform deliberately uses oldest opteron in the torture room as 'standard ffa gauge' , if wasn't obv.
1905194;1553716514;asciilifeform;ftr rk is effectively 2x, as measured, slower than this gauge box , on ffa.
1905195;1553716576;asciilifeform;i expect that as moar folx eat ffa, we will have moar empirical figs to compare.
1905196;1553716689;asciilifeform;fwiw 'speed of ffa' for applications involving modexp ( rsa keygen & enc/dec ) hinges ~entirely on speed of the multiplier unit in $iron .
1905197;1553716723;asciilifeform;( troo from ch14b and up )
1905198;1553716763;*;asciilifeform bbl,tea
1905199;1553717245;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/lavaro/ << Trilema -- L'avaro
1905200;1553721786;Mocky;billymg: if your tinymce patch is ready this weekend I'll test it with my setup.
1905201;1553722033;Mocky;I may end up having a follow up vpatch for mpwp as well
1905202;1553722528;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/british-soldier-faces-charges-over-friendly-fire-in-video-game-exercise/ << Qntra -- British Soldier Faces Charges Over Friendly Fire In Video Game Exercise
1905203;1553722563;BingoBoingo;^ From Spreadsheets in Space to Field Exercises in Spreadsheets!
1905204;1553723313;mircea_popescu;whole tower of shit's derealizing at a shocking rate.
1905205;1553723734;BingoBoingo;Seriousky, all that's left is shit and graft fulfilled with more shit
1905206;1553727520;asciilifeform;in other noose, 100 shots of that 2048bit-prime baker : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DjaVe/?raw=true ; min=13, max=299, avg=61, median=47 (seconds) .
1905207;1553727564;asciilifeform;( same params, i.e. pronounced prime if passes m-r with 32 rng-shat witnesses )
1905208;1553727576;BingoBoingo;In still other news, US sheep herd hits an all time low.
1905209;1553727810;asciilifeform;( for n00bz -- prime gen parallelizes, obv., over as many cpu as you have. but ffa per se does not use threads, tho it can be run inside threads with no added headache )
1905210;1553728266;asciilifeform;4**(-32) ~= 5.4210e-20 , probability of fatal misfire for 32 rounds of m-r
1905211;1553728532;asciilifeform;i.e. if you run somehow 1 per sec, will eat a coupla dozen moon-size asteroids prior to getting misfire..
1905212;1553728648;mircea_popescu;provided, of course, the witnesses aren't correlated.
1905213;1553728654;asciilifeform;obv
1905214;1553728699;asciilifeform;or rad event in yer irons, also fairly high prob regardless of how you baked rng
1905215;1553728715;asciilifeform;( high in comparison with the naked 4**-x that is )
1905216;1553728794;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: interestingly, iirc even to bake 32 liars (having control of the witnesses, presupposes) that 1) all diff 2) work for some n -- is open problem atm
1905217;1553728828;mircea_popescu;afaik there was constructive approach
1905218;1553728841;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you recall where, plz link
1905219;1553728850;mircea_popescu;but also afaik, it doesn't work with "and all same size"
1905220;1553728878;asciilifeform;nah i'd be satisfied with 'here's n, and here's 32 unequal m-r liars for n'
1905221;1553728898;asciilifeform;i recall digging for this, and instead finding conjecture that no canhaz
1905222;1553728974;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20
1905223;1553728986;asciilifeform;carmichaels dun have much to do with m-r
1905224;1553728994;asciilifeform;( it's fermat that chokes on'em )
1905225;1553729033;mircea_popescu;yes ; but by analogy i expect it's possible you have some m-r liars up to the large (4096 bit is a large number) numbers we're dealing wqith
1905226;1553729051;asciilifeform;in m-r, for prime p, 3/4 of the integers are troof-tellers for p
1905227;1553729062;asciilifeform;*at least 3/4
1905228;1553729065;asciilifeform;usually much moar
1905229;1553729070;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/gambit/ << Trilema -- Gambit
1905230;1553729109;mircea_popescu;the problem's converse : construct k integers that are false witnesses for the primality of the pq product.
1905231;1553729111;asciilifeform;( troof-teller i.e. correctly triggers m-r's 'this is composite' litmus )
1905232;1553729147;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: takes same time as to find m-r false witness for anyffing else
1905233;1553729168;asciilifeform;i.e. throw p*q in m-r , with random witness, and see if correctly outputs 'composite'
1905234;1553729172;asciilifeform;rinse, repeat
1905235;1553729207;asciilifeform;q is whether there is a better algo
1905236;1553729211;mircea_popescu;ima have to dig this up, pretty sure i read up on this (very limited) mewthod of constructing m-r false witnesses for a two-primes product.
1905237;1553729213;asciilifeform;cuz this one is 'geological'
1905238;1553729227;mircea_popescu;the principal problem with it was that they ended up large.
1905239;1553729230;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that'd entirely fit the bill, if you find it
1905240;1553729239;asciilifeform;esp. if it runs in human time
1905241;1553729286;asciilifeform;then can say 'enemy who fed you a magic p, and then 32 selected witnesses, can lead you off cliff'
1905242;1553729303;mircea_popescu;there is ~some~ overlap between carmichael and m-r (eg  1729 is a pretty reliable flase witness).
1905243;1553729310;*;asciilifeform quite interested in conceptual diddles on m-r in light of phuctor
1905244;1553729320;mircea_popescu;in fact m-r is a sorta upgraded fermat
1905245;1553729353;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the operative diff is, 3/4 is lower bound. i.e. there aint a composite where 3/4 of the integers aint proper witness.
1905246;1553729380;mircea_popescu;i just me4ant formally, p ^ n-1 = 1 vs p ^ (n-1)/2 = +-1
1905247;1553729382;asciilifeform;somehow enemy gotta feed you errything other than those 3/4..
1905248;1553729473;mircea_popescu;finding the nontrivial square roots of 1 modulo n is a hard problem ; but constructing some is not. anyway, not right now in the best form to go through archives but will see to this.
1905249;1553729563;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu , plox to post if/when find
1905250;1553729598;mircea_popescu;you're in luck!
1905251;1553729607;mircea_popescu;https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747717185710425
1905252;1553729636;asciilifeform;neato ( tho could've sworn nao that we had it in log... )
1905253;1553729636;mircea_popescu;dood actually lists a 400 digit number to which ~300 items are strong liars
1905254;1553729639;mircea_popescu;(bases of a)
1905255;1553729654;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, it wouldn't surprise me if we did, no.
1905256;1553729712;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dun suppose you have the text lying around?
1905257;1553729953;mircea_popescu;packed somewhere im sure, but im not gonna proceed extracting rightnao.
1905258;1553729964;asciilifeform;aite, if anyone finds, plz post
1905259;1553729997;asciilifeform;iirc i saw this item at some pt, and fella really did bake a p that 'passes m-r' for buncha ~small~ bases
1905260;1553730009;asciilifeform;( as used in kochisms )
1905261;1553730063;asciilifeform;what'd be interesting is to find algo that bakes a large composite n , and shits forth arbitrary # of 'plausible-looking' large but false witnesses
1905262;1553730098;asciilifeform;( even moar interesting, would be to find litmus for some variant of this being in use, then could point it at phuctor collection & pull trigger )
1905263;1553730142;mircea_popescu;in more practical terms : about 1/4 of products of strong liars are also strong liars, which is another constructive direction.
1905264;1553730158;mircea_popescu;ie, you don';t have to try "all", but do try all mutual products of all known carmichael numbers.
1905265;1553730203;asciilifeform;iirc it is how the linked item worked
1905266;1553730211;asciilifeform;or something quite like
1905267;1553730239;*;asciilifeform frustrated, could've sworn he saw it with own eyes at some pt
1905268;1553730333;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/03/27/peso-watch-march-2019/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Peso Watch March 2019
1905269;1553730432;mircea_popescu;the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905222 item is relevant, because if you were to enumerate the pairs you'd be looking at 20mn!/2!(20mn-2)!, which is truly a staggering nuymber, of possible liars of a size up to 10^40
1905270;1553730432;a111;Logged on 2019-03-27 23:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20
1905271;1553730474;mircea_popescu;but even taking a small selection among these to produce a sieve, and then churning a bunch of composites through it, might produce some lulz.
1905272;1553730503;asciilifeform;all of this , as i understand, only is interesting if enemy knows (or can set) which will be your witnesses. cuz by basic m-r , 3/4 of possible inputs for witness will still give correct diagnosis of compositude
1905273;1553730525;mircea_popescu;all of this is only interesting if enemy can set your witnesses, correct.
1905274;1553730529;mircea_popescu;i thought that's what we were looking at.
1905275;1553730532;asciilifeform;right
1905276;1553730539;asciilifeform;in koch for instance.
1905277;1553730567;asciilifeform;will be lulzy if we end up finding that koch's 'whitener' actually optimizes for sad N
1905278;1553730600;mircea_popescu;another piece of the puzzle is that while small numbers are ~perfect~ witnesses for up to a certain value, they become terrible witnesses thereupon, which is why small witnesses are useless in crypto
1905279;1553730629;mircea_popescu;(and also why the usual crowd of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-02#1883944 systematically push them)
1905280;1553730629;a111;Logged on 2019-01-02 18:57 mircea_popescu: what's hilarious is the ever-present http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/#selection-154.0-157.103 whereby they'll imaginarily seat themselves in my seat and start spewing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 slash assorted nonsense about "homebrew crypto" lalala.
1905281;1553730649;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall, the derpcrypto folx use not only small, but ~fixed~ witnesses, lol
1905282;1553730802;asciilifeform;ahahaha the 'ohnoez , homebrew crypto' people
1905283;1553730828;*;asciilifeform is almost surprised none of'em left comment in ffa series, 'bbbut didntcha read in schneier, you oughtnt homebrew crypto!11'
1905284;1553731215;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, the problem with that 3/4 figure is  that it's ~an average~ (obtained by a very trivial calculation). there's no known way to evaluate the statistical divergence over a finite set.
1905285;1553731236;mircea_popescu;moreover, it's likely that a set of 100% consecutive liars of arbitrary length can be found.
1905286;1553731238;asciilifeform;mno, ~at least~ 3/4 of numberline provably nails any given composite.
1905287;1553731254;mircea_popescu;yes of numberline. definitely. but not of "x to y" interval for close x, y.
1905288;1553731263;asciilifeform;correct, it dun tell you where they are.
1905289;1553731272;mircea_popescu;right. and it dun tell you ~to any degree~.
1905290;1553731276;asciilifeform;aha!
1905291;1553731276;mircea_popescu;not at all.
1905292;1553731279;asciilifeform;which is why interesting q
1905293;1553731295;asciilifeform;very little is known re how distributed.
1905294;1553731299;mircea_popescu;right.
1905295;1553731419;mircea_popescu;in any case, to get back to the previous line : afaik all m-r liars are also carmichael numbers.
1905296;1553731465;mircea_popescu;small sets of small liars are trivially produced, eg  1 , 8 , 18 , 47 , 57 , 64 are liars for 5 * 13.
1905297;1553731542;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978#selection-3117.1-3141.67 << for 3215031751 : 2, 3, 5, 7 false witnesses in m-r , but none of'em are carmichael (of which smallest is 561)
1905298;1553731580;mircea_popescu;hm.
1905299;1553731629;mircea_popescu;yeah ; more properly : there is a class of numbers that are both carmichael numbers and strong liars.
1905300;1553731641;asciilifeform;recall, carmichael # is where x^(n-1) = 1 mod n for all x that are relatively prime to n
1905301;1553731677;mircea_popescu;yes.
1905302;1553731679;asciilifeform;i.e. x^n = x mod n , ditto
1905303;1553731680;asciilifeform;aha
1905304;1553732014;mircea_popescu;anyway, i guess what i'm tryingto say is that if i were looking to dig among the liar set i'd be mostly trying to guide it by the charmicael set.
1905305;1553732029;mircea_popescu;but i don't have all that great a "whu"
1905306;1553732032;mircea_popescu;why*
1905307;1553732057;asciilifeform;it's what i distinctly recall from that piece, will revisit when i dredge up a copy
1905308;1553732171;asciilifeform;incidentally, and for thread-completeness, gotta add, for certain patterns of failed m-r sequence , you end up with output that gets you a factor. this item is actually on the phuctor conveyor, when i get a free hand to crank it again
1905309;1553732246;asciilifeform;( for 'honest' prime gen, where there's actually 2 primes of the traditional bitness, this ~never happens. but for others.. )
1905310;1553732922;trinque;hey folks, just a heads-up that castle trinque is running on batteries atm due to a blown transformer. wallet will be around while batteries last, after which we'll be awaiting the mains.
1905311;1553733160;*;mircea_popescu is contemplating having a generating cage made.
1905312;1553733246;mircea_popescu;wouldn't that be hot af ?
1905313;1553733387;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: generating cage ? i.e. with hupet in large wheel turning gen ?
1905314;1553733395;mircea_popescu;yup.
1905315;1553733395;trinque;this is what I pictured, lol
1905316;1553733399;trinque;awesome
1905317;1553733423;mircea_popescu;well, ideally paired cages, for balance. it is pretty heavy machinery...
1905318;1553733426;asciilifeform;wainot, if they already turn wheels at gym..
1905319;1553733456;mircea_popescu;im totally gonna look into this. what's the big deal, a generator and some welding.
1905320;1553733475;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, even cheapo current gen. of gym stationary bikes, actually include gens, they simply dump the current in resistor
1905321;1553733481;asciilifeform;imho mega-waste, oughta come with plug
1905322;1553733485;mircea_popescu;aha!
1905323;1553733508;asciilifeform;so conceivably you dun need a gigantic hamster wheel, could rewire ordinary bike thing
1905324;1553733526;mircea_popescu;but gigantgic hamster wheel in dank cellar quite the pic.
1905325;1553733542;asciilifeform;a healthy biped can put out 100+ watt , sustained, on bike
1905326;1553733543;asciilifeform;but yes
1905327;1553733563;mircea_popescu;i expect more like 3-4-500 in wheel, use bodyweight
1905328;1553733685;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/SvAG5 << wehrmacht , 'tm5a1'
1905329;1553733834;asciilifeform;brits also had, but i dun recall what was called
1905330;1553733875;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/rescued-migrants-hijack-commercial-vessel-at-sea/ << Qntra -- Rescued Migrants Hijack Commercial Vessel At Sea
1905331;1553733876;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/mTfOP << better pic.
1905332;1553734051;asciilifeform;trinque: i thought you had diesel
1905333;1553734069;mircea_popescu;trinque, as it happens i was gonna do a buncha small payments, but deedb ot not answering to !!withdraw ?
1905334;1553734130;*;asciilifeform does not have diesel, thought about it but ~0 point, given that upstream fiber people seem to only have ~2hr of battery, so went 'i'ma also 2h..'
1905335;1553734155;mircea_popescu;nothing wrong with keeping a spare sat or radio connection. or both i guess
1905336;1553734184;asciilifeform;i have the latter, but it's kept in cold reserve, rather than auto
1905337;1553734198;*;asciilifeform dun like to have moar microwave background than strictly must
1905338;1553734316;mircea_popescu;trinque, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xMxQL/?raw=true
1905339;1553734483;asciilifeform;this is 1 of the wins of rk, thing can live on 3W
1905340;1553734500;asciilifeform;i.e. what actual hamster could turn out in his wheel..
1905341;1553734528;mircea_popescu;then again who wants to fuck hamsters.
1905342;1553734535;asciilifeform;point
1905343;1553734556;mircea_popescu;i don't think it's dead though, answers to eg !!key. mayhap something i'm fucking up syntax-wise.
1905344;1553734560;mircea_popescu;got knows wouldn't be first time.
1905345;1553734627;*;asciilifeform pictures castle mircea_popescustein with uboat-style battery room, what with the little cart that one rides lying on back to test electrolyte etc
1905346;1553734676;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, sov nuke vessels still had'em. backup to diesels which in turn backup to the 2 reactors
1905347;1553734694;asciilifeform;was thought, if you have 160 hands on the ship, may as well also battery
1905348;1553734730;mircea_popescu;the thing with subs is that failure means failure, there's no "oh, no brakes, stopped car in ditch".
1905349;1553734739;mircea_popescu;whole thing goes three miles underwater.
1905350;1553734742;asciilifeform;( seems extravagant, until you remember that you can't submerge on diesels )
1905351;1553734758;mircea_popescu;of course you can, airtanks.
1905352;1553734760;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 500 m. for the typical
1905353;1553734762;mircea_popescu;even soviets had these
1905354;1553734777;asciilifeform;airtank only good for vertical. battery if you care to also move..
1905355;1553734792;mircea_popescu;no, i mean, air tank to run diesel engine off of.
1905356;1553734801;mircea_popescu;not very far, but >0
1905357;1553734802;asciilifeform;to ~start~ diesel
1905358;1553734818;mircea_popescu;hm
1905359;1553734838;asciilifeform;it was the germans who tried to actually ~run~ ship on compressed air. in ww1. did not ( surprise? ) go far.
1905360;1553734858;mircea_popescu;~everyone does this now ; im pretty sure soviets also did.
1905361;1553734865;asciilifeform;for torpedo.
1905362;1553734871;asciilifeform;it dun scale.
1905363;1553734874;mircea_popescu;hm
1905364;1553734878;asciilifeform;( why not, will leave as exercise )
1905365;1553734887;mircea_popescu;in truth, never actually looked into this too closely.
1905366;1553734932;asciilifeform;compressed gas aint so great as energy store, you lose just about errything you put in , to pv = nRT
1905367;1553735000;asciilifeform;there was a sovok train engine with no boiler . for last-mile into factory with combustibles. filled with steam, off-site, went for ~40min after.
1905368;1553735010;asciilifeform;afaik that was the last word on the tech.
1905369;1553735042;asciilifeform;'50s.
1905370;1553735120;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLfa43_1WH8 << oblig german diesel air start .
1905371;1553735122;mircea_popescu;not as energy store ; as oxygenation tank.
1905372;1553735179;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ~that~ one was jp
1905373;1553735181;asciilifeform;and worked
1905374;1553735191;asciilifeform;afaik modern folx still tryin' to resurrect tech
1905375;1553735193;mircea_popescu;im pretty sure it's common now.
1905376;1553735200;asciilifeform;if it is, i missed
1905377;1553735255;mircea_popescu;the engines won't go very far on it (in no small part because it';s almost never taken to ~water density, ie, 800 or so atmospheres) ; but there's still a lot of air that can be fit in some not-so-huge tanks.
1905378;1553735261;*;asciilifeform aficionado mostly of sovok fleet , not up to date on newfangled
1905379;1553735288;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc they used peroxide as oxidizer, rather than compressed o2
1905380;1553735305;mircea_popescu;afaik it's just compressed air, taken when up.
1905381;1553735334;asciilifeform;rright but generally you would not want a bottle of 800atm on a boat that might have to live with depth charges nearby etc
1905382;1553735354;asciilifeform;bad enuff that you gotta have the 400atm ballast cistern
1905383;1553735357;mircea_popescu;afaik it's internally organized much like the "car battery" : a buncha half-liter cells inside a lined tank
1905384;1553735388;asciilifeform;possib that this was done in recent yrs, i missed.
1905385;1553735417;mircea_popescu;all part of work to make silent subs ; even the exhaust gets bottled.
1905386;1553735517;asciilifeform;in '90s americans built little sub with li-ion (french) battery , iirc
1905387;1553735532;asciilifeform;coupla hrs of sail , from ~300kg crate
1905388;1553735539;asciilifeform;nfi what became of this
1905389;1553735543;asciilifeform;( prolly 'tailhooked' )
1905390;1553735631;asciilifeform;the only source iirc for this item was an old ru report .
1905391;1553735637;asciilifeform;possibly -- vapourware.
1905392;1553736013;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in ancient trilemas, http://trilema.com/2012/o-fata-pe-gustul-meu/
1905393;1553736024;mircea_popescu;"say mp, who was your favourite american ?" "dora dufran"
1905394;1553736383;trinque;mircea_popescu: away from keys atm (sought power) but oughta work now. lmk if not
1905395;1553736425;mircea_popescu;now it answers ty
1905396;1553736520;trinque;cool, np
1905397;1553759254;mircea_popescu;"Digg Inc., a social-media pioneer once valued at more than $160 million, is selling for the deeply discounted price of about $500,000, three people familiar with the matter said." << back in [http://trilema.com/2011/evaluari-rationale-in-ro/#comment-86130][2012].
1905398;1553760855;diana_coman;asciilifeform: arnault's paper in the log from 1995 if that's the one you were looking for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722906
1905399;1553760855;a111;Logged on 2017-10-08 19:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://www.researchgate.net/publication/220161766_Constructing_Carmichael_Numbers_which_are_Strong_Pseudoprimes_to_Several_Bases (guy named arnault gave example of number for which all tests up to ~300 were misleading)
1905400;1553760898;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, nice find, definitely the source of my memory.
1905401;1553760927;diana_coman;I had it in my stash from writing eucrypt time so it rang a bell instantly
1905402;1553761214;mircea_popescu;nice hehe
1905403;1553777930;asciilifeform;ty diana_coman ! found http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722915 shortly , there it was
1905404;1553777930;a111;Logged on 2017-10-08 19:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform https://mathcrypto.wordpress.com/2014/11/29/large-carmichael-numbers-that-are-strong-pseudoprimes-to-several-bases/
1905405;1553778153;asciilifeform;would still like to find note #3 from that one , where he actually constructs the num
1905406;1553781714;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RKx9Y/?raw=true << full 1000-shot run of the 2048bit-prime demo. min=13, max=306, avg=58, med=44 , total run time for 1000 primes = 58207 sec.
1905407;1553782127;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/2048bit_prime_demo_hist.png << histogram.
1905408;1553783765;mircea_popescu;thinkin gmore about this whole witness and liar discussion :
1905409;1553783854;mircea_popescu;the ~only question that actually needs an answer is whether a) a selection of n random numbers b bits long made every time a candidate prime is checked for compositeness or b) a pre-given list of prime numbers b bits long among which n are randomly picked each time a candidate prime is checked for compositeness is a better approach towards checking a candidate prime for compositeness.
1905410;1553783905;mircea_popescu;type a has the disadvantage that possibly we end up with worse witnesses, and type b has the disadvantage that possibly lists of n to which our known list of candidate witnesses is blind to may be also constructed in advance.
1905411;1553783952;mircea_popescu;atm i am unaware how one would answer this ; but if any brins are in the audience by all means, even an unsuccessful ~meaningful~ attempt at tackling this question of our times is liable to make new math.
1905412;1553783995;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly i'm thick, but what does b win ? seems like any hardcoded list, if becomes known to enemy, opens you up to theoretical 'bake a n for which the witnesses are liars' item
1905413;1553784065;asciilifeform;whereas if you actually lift 32+ rng witnesses from a working rng (as in asciilifeform's demo, or diana_coman's proggy, and elsewhere where not koch.. ) actually converges (for so long as you actually have working rng)
1905414;1553784136;asciilifeform;when we 1st had m-r thread, i also considered a hybrid algo, where you take e.g. 32 rng witnesses, and 32 that are kept in bottle and known only to you , for 64-shot test that is slightly moar immune to rng failure. but then thought 'rng is jesus bolt, if fails, yer candidate is also fucked' so couldn't think of why to do such a thing.
1905415;1553784279;asciilifeform;( see earlier thrd also, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539708 )
1905416;1553784279;a111;Logged on 2016-09-11 22:50 asciilifeform: it is foolish to design for 'what if my rng silently fails'. it is a 'jesus bolt' failure
1905417;1553784445;asciilifeform;koch et al shat out his 'fixed witnesses' thing, and folx ate it largely cuz rng poverty. which we dun suffer from.
1905418;1553784631;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, possibly a is actually significantly weaker than b. i dunno, intuitively i'd readily agree with you, but the fact is ~we don't know~.
1905419;1553784646;asciilifeform;( fg disgorges up to ~32 candidate 2048-bit nums / sec . so it aint anywhere close to becoming the bottleneck in this use case )
1905420;1553784665;mircea_popescu;in any case, it seems to me that the a witnesses MUST be generated as rng(0, 2^4096) rather than rng (2^4095, 2^4096).
1905421;1553784673;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm quite curious to hear how could be weaker ( to any degree of crackpottery at all )
1905422;1553784715;mircea_popescu;it is factually true that the liar occurence in (1, n) is ~1/3 ; i don't know how to evaluate the occurence in (n, n+k). it could be 1/3^2 or 1/3 ^ k or 1/3 ^ 1/k^16 or whatever the fuck else.
1905423;1553784717;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall that http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978#selection-1320.0-1335.6
1905424;1553784719;mircea_popescu;though it seems unliukely.
1905425;1553784799;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, i don't disagree a is the correct way ; but i am pointing out we do not actually have math to point to here. for all we, properly speaking, know, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 eminently applies.
1905426;1553784799;a111;Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
1905427;1553784877;asciilifeform;all we have is the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905286 ( from elementary proof ) + the observation that nobody ( or at least not asciilifeform ) has ever found a composite that doesn't properly light up m-r 'composite!' indicator for 3+ / 4 rng stabs.
1905428;1553784877;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 00:00 asciilifeform: mno, ~at least~ 3/4 of numberline provably nails any given composite.
1905429;1553784913;mircea_popescu;right. we're well persuaded, and i daresay well persuasive.
1905430;1553785004;asciilifeform;to the point that i'm at a loss to construct a crackpot hypothesis for the negative ( what would the loch ness monster here look like ? erry composite n, we know has 3+ / 4 of integers as proper witnesses. so where wouldja hide'em so that working rng doesn't find 1 in 32 shots before asteroid hits machine ? )
1905431;1553785037;asciilifeform;it's sorta like the proposition of hiding 4 people in phone booth
1905432;1553785043;asciilifeform;from a 5th
1905433;1553785055;asciilifeform;( or, to be pedantic, 3 from a 4th )
1905434;1553785088;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, as to your earlier question : not such a large degree of crackpottery needed. consider that if i affirm today that a) given a list of however many ~randomly chosen~ witnesses from (1,n) b) the number k = x^2 + q x + p is going to be falsely identified as a prime number while n = q ^ 2 + p ^ 3, there is c) nothing you can practically do to give me the lie other than ~actually construct such numbers and check~.
1905435;1553785134;mircea_popescu;this is not what i'd call "crackpottery". for all you know there IS a manner to construct "~always lied about by random witnesses" prime candidates.
1905436;1553785161;asciilifeform;the m-r proof is unambiguous re the number line thing. i.e. the p of n ~actually random~ witnesses all lying, is bounded.
1905437;1553785171;mircea_popescu;or in other words : "random" is not "jolly joker of do what i mean".
1905438;1553785209;asciilifeform;this type of failure hinges on imperfection of rng, rather than hidden boojum in m-r
1905439;1553785229;mircea_popescu;it does seem more likely, yes.
1905440;1553785254;mircea_popescu;and it is bounded, yes. but ~statistically~ bounded.
1905441;1553785273;asciilifeform;correct, the bound presumes a flat-spectrum rng.
1905442;1553785301;mircea_popescu;the bound presumes a flat spectrum rng and properties of large sets of random numbers that ~have not been proven~, though they are experimentally VERY reliable.
1905443;1553785413;asciilifeform;the 1 device which dun rely on unprovens is... otp ( insert oblig old thrd here !11 )
1905444;1553785420;asciilifeform;even 'factoring is hard' -- unproven, etc
1905445;1553785420;mircea_popescu;there, again there is not a mathematical proof to permit you to say -- if i say "the largest contiguous set of consecutive liars before number n will contain k such liars where k = n divided by alf's gf's nosehair count" there's no formulaic approach you can fall back on. you'll have to take the girl by the nose, count, and break out the abacuses.
1905446;1553785510;asciilifeform;how does 'contiguous set of liars' play into scenario with working rng ?
1905447;1553785515;mircea_popescu;i do not dispute that the exercise is not worth doing, unless one has a girl nose fetish. nevertheless, worth doing is a different consideration from true.
1905448;1553785554;asciilifeform;say you have n for which the entire bottom quarter of the 2048bit witness space is liar. how does this prevent working rng from still finding working witness in the expected # of shots ?
1905449;1553785555;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, for all you know, all numbers between n and n+k are liars for all primes larger than 2^l
1905450;1553785595;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, the problem's not necessarily stated as you state it. i am not capable to know in advance WHAT attack will have to be faced.
1905451;1553785607;asciilifeform;apparently mircea_popescu dun buy the 3/4 proof ?
1905452;1553785624;mircea_popescu;i do buy it, but it is ~statistical~, and it applies for 1, n and NOT for n, n+k
1905453;1553785630;asciilifeform;i can't see any path to 'magically fails 32 shots despite working uniform rng' without rejecting the 3/4
1905454;1553785636;mircea_popescu;statistical means some things, we do not know how it diverges once we narrow intervals.
1905455;1553785661;asciilifeform;i must confess that i dun see how works.
1905456;1553785662;mircea_popescu;just because "every other human is female" does not mean there's 3 males in my harem.
1905457;1553785680;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, i dun see how works either! but what i'm saying is that you don't have ~proof~ it doesn't!
1905458;1553785681;asciilifeform;yer harem aint a uniform hat pick from the set tho
1905459;1553785688;mircea_popescu;how do you know this ?
1905460;1553785709;mircea_popescu;we're back to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905447 however this worm turns.
1905461;1553785709;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 15:05 mircea_popescu: i do not dispute that the exercise is not worth doing, unless one has a girl nose fetish. nevertheless, worth doing is a different consideration from true.
1905462;1553785744;asciilifeform;near as i can tell, the argument resolves to 'random dun exist, if beelzebub feels like it he will feed you 32 liars'
1905463;1553785756;asciilifeform;which begs question, why not him instead drops an asteroid on yer head
1905464;1553785760;mircea_popescu;argument reduces to "you do not know what random means".
1905465;1553785761;asciilifeform;cheaper, thermodynamically.
1905466;1553785801;mircea_popescu;afgain : just because you've proven that 3/4 numbers in the interval 1, n have property p, you have not shown ANYTHING about how many numbers have the property p in some other interval q, q+k.
1905467;1553785816;mircea_popescu;and i do mean ANYTHING.
1905468;1553785835;asciilifeform;the interval being picked for witness is 1..n ( well,really 1..n-1 , see diana_coman's review) tho
1905469;1553785841;mircea_popescu;yes you have "good reason to believe".
1905470;1553785857;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, and this SHOULD STAY THAT WAY, is one thing i'm saying. for the above reasoning.
1905471;1553785872;asciilifeform;so is the idea 'you cannot know whether yer rng actually worx?' cuz then i must agree
1905472;1553785905;asciilifeform;( and applies equally to the candidate # , and to any other application of rng )
1905473;1553785914;mircea_popescu;your rng working or not is aside the point ; we're discussing here random numbers as a mathematical abstraction, we're not even counting "well, your set of 4, 4, 4, 4 is not exactly an implementation of that abstraction"
1905474;1553785933;asciilifeform;well yes, q is re ~definition~ of 'working rng', as an abstract object
1905475;1553785950;mircea_popescu;yes, "you do not even know what a working rng mathematically means"
1905476;1553785963;asciilifeform;which 6 yrs after picking up subj, asciilifeform for instance is no closer to nao than then
1905477;1553785968;mircea_popescu;quite.
1905478;1553786005;mircea_popescu;but yes, the relation you unearth is sound. the problem or set thereof i started discussing is exactly homomorphic to "well, we have no proper rng tests, "ou'll have to take the girl by the nose, count, and break out the abacuses.")
1905479;1553786069;asciilifeform;incidentally, litmus where you pluck a string of N bits from rng, and then look for the expected distribution of m-r liars ( or apparent primality ) is itself a notbad, imho, rng test
1905480;1553786130;mircea_popescu;totally should be part of tmsr.ent
1905481;1553786143;mircea_popescu;being pretty much the ~only test anyone here in any substantial sense gives a shit about.
1905482;1553786152;asciilifeform;( like all other possible rng tests, presupposes that the device is in fact an rng, rather than e.g. tape playing back an old rng run while enemy dies of laughter )
1905483;1553786162;mircea_popescu;for sure.
1905484;1553786266;asciilifeform;would be mighty great use case for hypothetical 'ffa cpu' (i.e. arithmetizer with wide bus)
1905485;1553786292;asciilifeform;on pc , pretty slow ( dun actually make anyffing like full use of even the modest fg bit rate )
1905486;1553786351;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> being pretty much the ~only test anyone here in any substantial sense gives a shit about. << Indeed
1905487;1553786401;mircea_popescu;imo item should be baked anyways, as a tmsr.crypto model object.
1905488;1553786412;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, i'd say you found the first meaningful patch to be put on the fg tree.
1905489;1553786423;asciilifeform;fwiw however i cannot presently think of any rng test, even the dumbest ones in the 'dieharder' collection, that wouldn't barf at a rng which avoids 3/4 (or any similar proportion) chunk of the integer number line
1905490;1553786435;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-17#1902989 object.
1905491;1553786435;a111;Logged on 2019-03-17 03:03 mircea_popescu: "We wonder, and some Hunter may express wonder like ours, when through wilderness where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace he meets some fragment, huge, and there stops to guess. What powerful but unrecorded race once dwelt in that annihilated place ?"
1905492;1553786481;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, they're not equally distributed. here's what i propose : take a rng run, ent ; then take out all carmichael numbers from it, run ent. then see if you can tell which is which.
1905493;1553786491;mircea_popescu;i'm willing to bet "entropy is improved" 50% of the time.
1905494;1553786588;asciilifeform;afaik there is no recipe for finding large carmichaels .
1905495;1553786611;asciilifeform;( a coupla thou. are known, found by brute force for the bottom 10e12 or so of number line, that's afaik it )
1905496;1553786698;mircea_popescu;pretty sure more like a few mn are known, obtained as you say.\
1905497;1553786762;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/4Qjzh << keks of all fucking time.
1905498;1553786842;asciilifeform;i confess the orig. supposition still dun compute in my head, where yes 3/4 of number line proves compositivity , but somehow a device which even approximates uniform random, manages to avoid'em in 32+ shots.
1905499;1553786882;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/4Qjzh#selection-387.0-447.23 imo best part.
1905500;1553786888;*;asciilifeform to tea, will think
1905501;1553788839;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/eu-mandating-speed-naggers-in-all-cars-by-2022/ << Qntra -- EU Mandating Speed Naggers In All Cars By 2022
1905502;1553788852;BingoBoingo;^ Disagrees with EU on which side of road is for driving, auto-adopts entire EU transport shit anyways
1905503;1553788938;asciilifeform;oook even with tea i cannot digest it. mircea_popescu's gedankendevice requires http://trilema.com/2017/resplenduminous/ .
1905504;1553789017;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, there's a difference between "show x can't be done" and "show how to do x"
1905505;1553789089;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, fortunately their tower of shit depends on crap like having gps in the car.
1905506;1553789092;asciilifeform;sure enuff, but seems to me that asking for an object that appears to pass even elementary (e.g. 'pi dart') rng smoke test, while actually avoids 3/4 of the phase space in its output, is like asking for a 2 which is also a 3 .
1905507;1553789108;mircea_popescu;we don't see the same thing here.
1905508;1553789127;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: And car being sold in EU
1905509;1553789156;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: let's rework the supposition into a gedankenexperiment, with mircea_popescu's permission ( plox to say if the described situation dun match the orig. )
1905510;1553789172;mircea_popescu;sure.
1905511;1553789174;BingoBoingo;Version for export to China/India/Russia/Qatar probably better anyways
1905512;1553789191;asciilifeform;suppose you have candidate p , generated with what you consider to be a working (i.e. uniform) rng , with no interference from devils.
1905513;1553789200;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, i expect sometime before 2022 ima switch to buying azn cars. what can you do, germans are morons now.
1905514;1553789205;asciilifeform;however, for baking m-r witnesses, you are in fact using a wire that goes down straight into hell
1905515;1553789220;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, alright.
1905516;1553789231;asciilifeform;where the devil in fact knows what each of your p is ( but he won't tell yer human enemy, he likes to make humans fight for amusement )
1905517;1553789246;asciilifeform;however he would like you to have a good probability of settling on a p which is actually composite
1905518;1553789281;asciilifeform;so erry time you milk the wire for a witness, he gives you ( with some probability higher than what you would expect from actual rng per the orig m-r ) a false witness , erry time.
1905519;1553789289;mircea_popescu;alright.
1905520;1553789323;mircea_popescu;"from actual rng per [naive interpretation] of m-r claims", but w/e.
1905521;1553789324;asciilifeform;nao the q becomes, you later look at what came out of the wire. is it possible to conceive of a 'rng test' that the output would not (for particular p , taken as constant) fail ?
1905522;1553789340;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, yes.
1905523;1553789354;asciilifeform;can describe one ?
1905524;1553789363;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905493
1905525;1553789363;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 15:21 mircea_popescu: i'm willing to bet "entropy is improved" 50% of the time.
1905526;1553789366;mircea_popescu;described in log.
1905527;1553789391;asciilifeform;cuz 'avoids 3/4 of space' is equiv to , e.g., rng that never produces string '00', '01', '10' for any 2 bits of output
1905528;1553789402;mircea_popescu;it does not avoid 3/4 of space.
1905529;1553789404;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'avoids carmichaels' dun do anyffing for m-r
1905530;1553789428;asciilifeform;so does mircea_popescu reject the 'for ~any~ given composite, 3/4 of integers are m-r witnesses' item ?
1905531;1553789457;mircea_popescu;understand : there are no less than 2^4096 numbers in 4096 bits. if you take say 32 numbers out of this, that is, 2^5, you have thereby avoided 2^4091 numbers from the original set, which is to say, 100% to any practical apperoximation.
1905532;1553789457;asciilifeform;( and, note, 'of integers 1 ... p-1' )
1905533;1553789492;mircea_popescu;you can not, on the basis of a 0% sample, to say anything avbout how the sample fits in the 100% it came from.
1905534;1553789532;asciilifeform;who said '0%' tho. you have an arbitrarily long string of queries to devil
1905535;1553789560;asciilifeform;if he wants you to fail with prob=1 , then he gotta give you a false witness each time.
1905536;1553789570;asciilifeform;these are drawn from 1/4 of the phase space.
1905537;1553789576;mircea_popescu;yes, in theory. in practice, you have a finite set out of a necessarily large space -- as part and parcel of what cryptography IS.
1905538;1553789576;asciilifeform;( per given p )
1905539;1553789592;mircea_popescu;if we were even close to space saturation, itr wouldn't be called crypto, it'd be called social security numbers.
1905540;1553789617;mircea_popescu;devil dun' care about probability 1, or about "infinitely long trials".
1905541;1553789624;mircea_popescu;devil cares about the thought of man. which is neither.
1905542;1553789659;mircea_popescu;and ~this~ is the core of my argument -- not that probability of 1, nor that "forever". merely that for the one spot you happen to look at.
1905543;1553789675;asciilifeform;rright, which is why he is in this play , notion is that he'd like you to continue to think that you have a working process with given characteristic, whereas in fact quite different
1905544;1553789692;mircea_popescu;otherwise, by naive extension of daily experience, items such a geode (or even, an ore vein) are "not possible"
1905545;1553789696;asciilifeform;so is the puzzler actually about m-r , or about whether notion of probability is physical ?
1905546;1553789725;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, it's not a puzzler ; it all reduces to the downstream implications of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905437
1905547;1553789725;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 14:59 mircea_popescu: or in other words : "random" is not "jolly joker of do what i mean".
1905548;1553789748;asciilifeform;so the latter ? 'bahaha you think uniform distributions exist' ?
1905549;1553789771;mircea_popescu;from "numbers on the interval 1, n have property p with probability 3/4"it does NOT follow that "these five numbers i picked contain 3.75 numbers wirth property p"
1905550;1553789811;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, "uniform distributions" are not guaranteed to be what you get. when you go to milk shop and order milk, you get milk on the strength of ~human industry~, NOT on the strength of "the meanings of abstracts".
1905551;1553789816;asciilifeform;the notion does however follow, that lottery players are fucked in the head ( or is this also nao reopened case ..? )
1905552;1553789827;mircea_popescu;this is proven by the fact that when you go to p-numbers shop and get numbers, what you get are... numbers.
1905553;1553789844;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, all lottery players except the winner are fucked in the head.
1905554;1553789863;mircea_popescu;from the fact that "it is improductive, economically, to play the lottery" it does NOT follow that "it is a bad strategy, my daughter, to marry the winners"
1905555;1553789874;asciilifeform;record appears to show that the winners, too , fucked
1905556;1553789885;mircea_popescu;principally, by the daughters.
1905557;1553789949;asciilifeform;historically, by sharp stick. at least in the case of what's ordinarily called lottery. cuz winning dun banish from the head the cockroaches that made'em play to begin with
1905558;1553789964;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu amply documented this for the btc lotterists , for instance
1905559;1553790006;asciilifeform;i.e. 'stopped clock is right 1ce a day' but is still a broken clock, even if at that moment in day it is not distinguishable with naked eye from working
1905560;1553790012;mircea_popescu;yes, but i happen to have whole blog documenting the daughter strategy, hence eg http://trilema.com/2009/chiar-nu-ma-agita-chestiunea/#selection-69.105-69.754
1905561;1553790029;mircea_popescu;nicoleci, ^ btw.
1905562;1553790101;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, consider : 1. X is a bad strategy (true) ; 2. exploiting winners of X is a good strategy (true).
1905563;1553790101;asciilifeform;asciilifeform oughta confess how he was duped in buenos aires , it is pertinent to thread
1905564;1553790110;mircea_popescu;just because "it is random", doesn't mean 2 can't happen.
1905565;1553790117;mircea_popescu;go for it.
1905566;1553790131;asciilifeform;before taking off , decided to buy sumthing from the carpet men, and bought a pocket watch. appeared to be keeping correct time, spiffy-looking '20s german thing
1905567;1553790149;asciilifeform;already guessed what was the trick ?
1905568;1553790164;asciilifeform;( carpet man of course set'em erry day ... )
1905569;1553790181;asciilifeform;asciilifeform - lost 20bux, learned sumthing.
1905570;1553790223;mircea_popescu;i can't imagine.
1905571;1553790234;asciilifeform;lol
1905572;1553790271;asciilifeform;at least it wasn't the old 'cockroach inside , ticks' item.
1905573;1553790292;asciilifeform;per o'henry
1905574;1553790395;asciilifeform;upstack, to 'exploiting the winners is +ev strat' , this is entirely troo, for so long as you know how to eat'em without becoming infected with whatever made'em fat to begin with
1905575;1553790458;mircea_popescu;the overarching point here is that merely http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905503 is very little argument -- the whore discussed is superlatively feminine, and as a factual matter the human species exists as extant because the females employ the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905562 item, specifically as "let's all you schmoes go to war, and [http://trilema.com/2017/the-perennial-harriette-wilson/#selection-111.0-111
1905576;1553790458;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:02 asciilifeform: oook even with tea i cannot digest it. mircea_popescu's gedankendevice requires http://trilema.com/2017/resplenduminous/ .
1905577;1553790458;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, consider : 1. X is a bad strategy (true) ; 2. exploiting winners of X is a good strategy (true).
1905578;1553790458;mircea_popescu;.61][we'll fuck whoever comes back]".
1905579;1553790492;asciilifeform;i'd be lying if i said that i knew how to connect this to the orig puzzler.
1905580;1553790498;mircea_popescu;the whole human race (and not exceptionally, most mammals also) is, essentialyl, an exercise in the exploitation of liar distribution like here discussed
1905581;1553790557;mircea_popescu;what is a rich merchant but a false witness to the truth of the dangers of voyage and [http://trilema.com/2014/the-most-serene-republic-and-its-laws/#selection-69.179-69.361][risks of merchantry] ?
1905582;1553790593;asciilifeform;for thread-completeness, will add that http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ is possibly moar pertinent to the orig q than 'resplenduminous'
1905583;1553790611;mircea_popescu;"of all the merchants there lie within this generation of 12 yo boys, 3/4 will die before being rich" "i intend to marry one of the rest. or three."
1905584;1553790617;asciilifeform;i.e. '"That dial hasn't moved yet, has it?" Edwardson asked, over the clamor of the Detector alarm bell. "Not a waffle." Cassel said reassuringly, looking at the dial with its indicator slamming back and forth against the stoppers either way.'
1905585;1553790642;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, depends if you look from inside or from outside. from outside, kim is quite the perfect model.
1905586;1553790748;asciilifeform;( also ougta add, that if extended riemann is troo , then the supposition that 'for erry finite set of witnesses, can produce a p for which they all lie' is not , and the rng component of m-r would then be redherring )
1905587;1553790765;asciilifeform;iirc diana_coman reviewed subj
1905588;1553790798;mircea_popescu;and, lest the "women's rights an' freedoms" morons get irritated -- no, the "not anymore" re marriage and the outlay above is not some kind of "[http://trilema.com/2018/hey-women-did-you-know-that-before-the-pantsuited-hilarity-gave-you-your-civil-rights-you-were-living-in-slavery/][progress]". it is the simple economical result of the value of new children reaching ~0 and the probability of success also reaching ~0 : thus
1905589;1553790798;mircea_popescu; therefore, the previous class of specialist egg layers are now repurposed into a doubling of the food searcher contingent.
1905590;1553790894;asciilifeform;~this~ subthread i must leave to mircea_popescu ( i haven't with what to disagree )
1905591;1553790910;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, that much is true, and yes, this 2nd link you unearth is also very likely (at least as far as i know) true : can't have at the same time what we discuss here and http://trilema.com/2013/squares-do-morals-a-porno/#selection-475.0-475.334 ; therefore i said http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905411
1905592;1553790910;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 14:39 mircea_popescu: atm i am unaware how one would answer this ; but if any brins are in the audience by all means, even an unsuccessful ~meaningful~ attempt at tackling this question of our times is liable to make new math.
1905593;1553790937;*;asciilifeform cannot resist, sings lehrer's 'new math'
1905594;1553790942;mircea_popescu;keks
1905595;1553791036;*;mircea_popescu is quite tickled that the ready reference of the issue is titled things with squares and morals and pornos. considering the context in which i needed it lo SIX years later...
1905596;1553791055;mircea_popescu;quite remarkable stability.
1905597;1553791068;mircea_popescu;TITled, geddit.
1905598;1553791234;asciilifeform;before thread exhausts its fuel, asciilifeform would like to hear whether mircea_popescu has actionable 'nah do it like ~so~' for m-r, or only the 'memento mori'
1905599;1553791307;mircea_popescu;the only practically useful tidbit i have is "according to math arcana, witnesses absolutely must come from 1, 2^n rather than 2^n-1, 2^n ; notwithstanding the latter might look "thicker"
1905600;1553791370;asciilifeform;um m-r only worx if w from 2 .. n-1
1905601;1553791387;mircea_popescu;the other useful rtidbit that came out of this, you came up with : new tmsr.ent element, which yes should be done.
1905602;1553791392;asciilifeform;( as pictured in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978#selection-592.0-617.1 )
1905603;1553791403;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, point being, can't just take the 2nd half. yes, start at 2.
1905604;1553791424;asciilifeform;i can't think of any reason to constrict the witness pool any further than m-r per se constrains it
1905605;1553791435;asciilifeform;( observe what asciilifeform's m-r does with the witness input )
1905606;1553791449;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, for instance, proceeding through analogy with what with did to the e's, "must be this many bits"
1905607;1553791504;asciilifeform;( spoiler : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978#selection-1320.0-1367.7 )
1905608;1553791572;asciilifeform;i.e. all electrically-permitted inputs map onto a permitted 2 .. n - 1 , and those who fit into the range to begin with, map directly ( others map via modular reduction )
1905609;1553791576;BingoBoingo;In daughter strategy https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Tras-fallo-favorable-a-empresario-prostituta-apela-y-exige-el-pago-de-U-S-700-000-uc713957
1905610;1553791582;mircea_popescu;fwiw, since it was mentioned : i don't see what's so scandalous with the "new arithmetic" whereby one explicits the powers rather than whatever historical approach.
1905611;1553791606;mircea_popescu;maybe it's just me being jewish or w/e, but honestly, so what if "that 1 in the 10s is really 10 ones, and if it were in the 64s it'd really be 8 8s" ?
1905612;1553791644;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik lehrer was laffing at the notion that 'new notation will cure all'
1905613;1553791654;asciilifeform;was a period crackpottery, in ameri-ed
1905614;1553791655;mircea_popescu;ah.
1905615;1553791663;asciilifeform;see also 'phonics'
1905616;1553791695;mircea_popescu;ok, but i mean... so it's a notation, what. i'd settle for any manner of teaching kids headarithmetic ; i've yet to meet any female of enslavement age who can actually do it.
1905617;1553791719;mircea_popescu;i don't even mean radicals, or fast calculations of things like 149 * 16 as "well, 24 minus a unit"
1905618;1553791723;asciilifeform;afaik it's teachable like any other mechanical trick
1905619;1553791733;mircea_popescu;now all it takes is it actually being taught.
1905620;1553791761;asciilifeform;!#s the feeling of power
1905621;1553791761;a111;11 results for "the feeling of power", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=the%20feeling%20of%20power
1905622;1553791764;asciilifeform;^ see also
1905623;1553791851;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/t4imw << subj. asimov.
1905624;1553791963;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, i don't get her cause of action, nudum pactum much ? she wants 700k pesos FOR WHAT ? "he wrote so" ain't no cause of auction, in both civil and common.
1905625;1553791978;mircea_popescu;gifts from the hand, in civil law, that aren't in possession aren't title.
1905626;1553791989;asciilifeform;'"Yes, I know," said the little technician earnestly, "but I start by saying seven times three because that's the way it works. Now seven times three is twenty-one." "And how do you know that?" asked the congressman. "I just remember it. It's always twenty-one on the computer. I've checked it any number of times." "That doesn't mean it always will be, though, does it?" said the congressman. "Maybe not," stammered Aub. "I'm not a math
1905627;1553791989;asciilifeform;ematician. But I always get the right answers, you see."'
1905628;1553791993;mircea_popescu;(and even in posession, can be clawed in probate etc)
1905629;1553792050;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought 'possession is 9/10th of the law'(tm) lol
1905630;1553792053;BingoBoingo;Her cause can be reduced to that unyielding socialist faith. "It imagined it working, why isn't it?"
1905631;1553792087;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, sure. BingoBoingo pretty lulzy.
1905632;1553792143;mircea_popescu;"Este miércoles, Salle dijo a Montevideo Portal que el vale "fue un arrendamiento de servicio por actos sexuales y orgiásticos" y que el juez debe fijarse si el pagaré cumple con todos los requisitos y no en otros asuntos."
1905633;1553792146;mircea_popescu;bwahahaha fucktards.
1905634;1553792148;BingoBoingo;You know, the sort of thought patterns that drive prison lawyers incapable of keeping themselves out of prison
1905635;1553792166;mircea_popescu;im sure she has a contract afore the fact, too, listing the price.
1905636;1553792180;mircea_popescu;when the fuck's a whore in that shithole made 10k, let alone 100k. or what is the peso, 8 to the dollar or so ?
1905637;1553792189;BingoBoingo;33 to the dollar
1905638;1553792207;mircea_popescu;"Cuando ejecutás un vale la ley prevé una serie de mecanismos de defensa, entre esos mecanismos de defensa no está el que vos ingreses a analizar el negocio que dio origen al vale. El vale es una forma de pago, es un documento de crédito, es como que emitas un cheque. El juez de la ejecución no tiene autorizado entrar a analizar el negocio que dio origen al cheque", explic
1905639;1553792209;mircea_popescu;superkeks.\
1905640;1553792216;mircea_popescu;wtf, and these tards are actually lawyers now ?
1905641;1553792256;mircea_popescu;like fucking children exactly, "the precarious chair tower seemed solid to me on the basis of it standing, why did it fall over ?!?!?!"
1905642;1553792258;BingoBoingo;Typical rates listed on the whoring portals are 1000-3000 pesos (30-100 USD) hourly. In practice...
1905643;1553792277;mircea_popescu;so she worked for 200 hours, keks.
1905644;1553792278;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> wtf, and these tards are actually lawyers now ? << Worse, graduates del la facultad de Derecho!
1905645;1553792296;BingoBoingo;Not law school, rights school
1905646;1553792311;mircea_popescu;hahaha
1905647;1553792344;BingoBoingo;And it SHOWS!
1905648;1553792349;mircea_popescu;this might be the most retarded case i read this year.
1905649;1553792366;mircea_popescu;i'd put the lawyer in jail, if i were stuck judging this thing.
1905650;1553792383;mircea_popescu;"go ye in county for contempt and you can get out when some other judge says so, cuz i ain't gonna."
1905651;1553792420;BingoBoingo;Under the current criminal code, that might be interpreted as a sentence of community service with the guilty assigned to judge in order to work off his debt to society
1905652;1553792433;mircea_popescu;noty.
1905653;1553792435;BingoBoingo;Very http://trilema.com/2016/esteemed-james-l-caldwell/ situation
1905654;1553792611;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905645 << aand here i thought it was a lang artifact ( 'derecho' -- 'right', i.e. juris )
1905655;1553792611;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:58 BingoBoingo: Not law school, rights school
1905656;1553792643;asciilifeform;tho it wouldn't astonish me if in some orcistan were 'derechos'
1905657;1553792685;mircea_popescu;it si, it is. he's just being mean.
1905658;1553792692;asciilifeform;lolk
1905659;1553792711;mircea_popescu;besides, duke's the lands' foremost university of left turns.
1905660;1553792734;mircea_popescu;"you gotta go to uni to make a turn ?" "here yes"
1905661;1553792818;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, that was quite a pleasant re-read lol. i even forgot about it.
1905662;1553792882;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905513 << asciilifeform going on 20yrs of asia, 0 complaints
1905663;1553792882;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:06 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, i expect sometime before 2022 ima switch to buying azn cars. what can you do, germans are morons now.
1905664;1553792887;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> it si, it is. he's just being mean. << Only halfway. The other half is derechos as in derechos por cerdos humanos
1905665;1553792913;mircea_popescu;i suspect we might want very different things from our cars.
1905666;1553792917;asciilifeform;likely
1905667;1553792929;asciilifeform;then again i suspect the plasti-tubs sold nao are shite across the board
1905668;1553792937;asciilifeform;and not 1 will actually run for 20y
1905669;1553792959;asciilifeform;( or eat less than its entire orig price tag in parts , possible >1ce )
1905670;1553793007;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 1 obv concrete diff, i run mine on asphalt..
1905671;1553793068;*;asciilifeform wonders what, specifically, eats cars in mircea_popescustan. gotta be the mud, the humidity, cuz it aint salt ( where snows -- salt )
1905672;1553793072;mircea_popescu;bartholomew is driving my groundskeeper fellow to the brink of madness. it is the SECOND consecutive technical inspection it passed without any repairs, AT ALL. the poor guy, drives a cheap toyota, comes back from trhe test with lengthly lists of requisites EVERY time. last year he was very put off by the "pass on 1st try" thing, especially as the year prior he had seen the thing dump its fluids and have to be toed. but th
1905673;1553793072;mircea_popescu;is 2nd pass of the same... it just... he's visibly still dfigesting it.
1905674;1553793122;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what period toyota ? cuz if it's 2010s with debug port, then noshit it'll generate 'long list of requisites' erry time gets plugged in
1905675;1553793134;asciilifeform;auto-scamola
1905676;1553793180;asciilifeform;tho then again mircea_popescu did say 'dumps fluids' lol
1905677;1553793210;asciilifeform;imho oughta compare machines from same era
1905678;1553793220;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, 30% grades ; crazy winds ; drove it [http://trilema.com/2019/am-o-pula/#selection-71.0-71.290][through sand] and through a river bed i'm too lazy rto get the link of and and and
1905679;1553793263;asciilifeform;possibly i observed this before, but seems like mircea_popescustan is really gelandewagen terrain
1905680;1553793275;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, they have this testing office here, they give you a stamp that the car is up to spect technically, good for 1 year. (good measure too, the tubs these people drove before it... jesus f. even now you see trucks dead in middle of onramp cuz unmaintained engine finally croaked etc)
1905681;1553793299;asciilifeform;here also they have, but these only are interested in what goes out from tailpipe..
1905682;1553793319;asciilifeform;( erry 2y )
1905683;1553793334;mircea_popescu;they check everyhing. (no joke, either, ticos are a serious folk). brakes, direction, i even get warnings that the front seat headrest is unattached (i keep it out deliberately, so as not to obstruct my front view)
1905684;1553793355;asciilifeform;interesting
1905685;1553793363;asciilifeform;( in usa, similar but only when thing is sold )
1905686;1553793363;mircea_popescu;i think in principle the "all tests failed" printout would be 10-20k itemized lines.
1905687;1553793438;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sounds like the german is pretty neat machine. and iirc mircea_popescu said he bought it for only ~lispmachine's worth, even
1905688;1553793458;mircea_popescu;the cheap one wasn't expensive at all, and yes worth every god damned penny.
1905689;1553793467;asciilifeform;what was it, 5k or wat
1905690;1553793483;mircea_popescu;more like 10 including all the repairs it needed.
1905691;1553793492;asciilifeform;still pretty great
1905692;1553793504;asciilifeform;tho of course it's '10k + mircea_popescu's trained nose'
1905693;1553793507;mircea_popescu;i have no regrets.
1905694;1553793536;mircea_popescu;haha yes, you know i got it on the spot ? self-same groundskeeper, "but you know the car ?" "nope" "So you went with mechanic ?" "umm, no." "but... so you got scammed ?" "i guess we see"
1905695;1553793579;asciilifeform;i'd expect on the spot, rather than mircea_popescu brought it in suitcase from argentina, lol
1905696;1553793583;mircea_popescu;lol.
1905697;1553793673;mircea_popescu;so then was stuck discovering defects for half a year / training locals to sanity because http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887591 ; and stuck paying for parts / organizing imports / whatever, to the tune of like 3k, ie, years' local salary. which seemed to vindicate the "you were scammed" pov.
1905698;1553793673;a111;Logged on 2019-01-16 15:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have the converse problem. alternator dies on road, /me takes car back to (otherwise very competent, and very able) independent mechanic who charged 75 an hour for tools and labour to find what needs changing and then install mp's parts (75 CENTS!!!). "why the fuck was not this on the bill ?" "ah, it wasn't really broken yet, still hung on a thread".
1905699;1553793698;mircea_popescu;except poor dood's spent MORE than that fixing his toyota so as to get the riteve hence. vindicating the point that... hm. white devil!
1905700;1553793858;asciilifeform;imho buying 5k box and then finding 5k of fixable defect -- beats shit out of buying 100k box and then finding that whole thing is 1 100k-weighing defect of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902627 variety
1905701;1553793858;a111;Logged on 2019-03-15 01:57 asciilifeform: cuz , see, 'computer needs replace'
1905702;1553793945;mircea_popescu;i do not believe any same-year made car during any of the years involved could have survived as a replacement. (i don't even take the newer / better ones for this sort of treck -- and tbh, i do not respect them NEARLY as much. i grew to love the cheap unassuming old car on the merits, which is to say what it'll take. like any woman.
1905703;1553793988;mircea_popescu;there's this purely idiotarian usgistani view of "oh, young woman always better than old wife". really, bitch ? cuz why, cuz the precious cuntlet can't take without breaking down a 1% of what the tried and tested old ho can swallow unblinking ?
1905704;1553793995;asciilifeform;( usd printolade press birthed not only 100k auto that's 90% plastic , but even this is not enuff to make their manufacture +ev , they gotta nao also turn'em into chump milking machines by ~design~ )
1905705;1553793998;mircea_popescu;so they buy shitty cars and live unhappy domestic lives.
1905706;1553794059;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, point in case : the undercarriage transmission/engine cover was banged AT LEAST ONE HUNDRED TIMES. so the car goes "bong!" and your head shakes and you're "omfg, the 7 (seven!!! point five!!!) liters of expensive oil are now on the ground.
1905707;1553794080;mircea_popescu;never happened, i have yet nfi wtf it is shielded by, but volcanic rock seems to have nothing on it.
1905708;1553794087;asciilifeform;( incidentally not unlike the proverbial ipnoje , which not ~only~ has to cost 2k to +ev, but to be ~unrepairable and glass cracks if you look at it sideways )
1905709;1553794129;mircea_popescu;this used to be the bane of the mercedesen i used in a diff life in romania.
1905710;1553794144;asciilifeform;loose oilplug ?
1905711;1553794154;mircea_popescu;apparently, german science made progress between late 90s and mid 2000s, fixed problem.
1905712;1553794162;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, no, cracked engine / transmission casing.
1905713;1553794167;asciilifeform;aa
1905714;1553794194;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, afaik sovok autos, which had just about erry other possib. fuckup, did not suffer from this one
1905715;1553794212;mircea_popescu;it stands to reason, too. "we made this thing to be driven on road, road is defined as no immovable obstacles taller than x, plox to keep in mind".
1905716;1553794254;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, no doubt aided by relative roadlessness of mother russia.
1905717;1553794300;asciilifeform;in ru shite road, but usually on acct of mud liquishit, rather than stones
1905718;1553794360;mircea_popescu;well, here too, kinda how rocks end up in the way : mudslide washes them in, then rain washes the mud. sorta like fractioned distillation
1905719;1553794364;mircea_popescu;how volcano side works.
1905720;1553794396;asciilifeform;that makes sense
1905721;1553794490;mircea_popescu;in fairness, ru mud not volcanic.
1905722;1553794502;asciilifeform;verily
1905723;1553794548;asciilifeform;fwiw i suspect that machine of same vintage as mircea_popescu's , but with slightly higher road clearance, would work even better
1905724;1553794554;asciilifeform;on the terrain
1905725;1553794565;mircea_popescu;possibly. im vaguely considering getting a mog, hanbot 's a fan.
1905726;1553794601;asciilifeform;kamaz!111
1905727;1553794632;mircea_popescu;they have cvasi-sedan ones, doesn't have to be a truck
1905728;1553794644;*;asciilifeform believes
1905729;1553794665;BingoBoingo;Parts availability will probably go up quite a bit with a mog
1905730;1553794841;mircea_popescu;they are also indescribably fucking cute. but w/e, i have complex demands, we see.
1905731;1553794985;mircea_popescu;anyway, back to it : the large rocks are one thing, but if you drive over macadam say (which is not inconceivable here, and yes on a grade with hairpins, whynot) there's very much a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1735165 sorta affair : for any arbitrary energy, you will get X many rocks per hour, or mile.
1905732;1553794985;a111;Logged on 2017-11-09 16:38 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu earlier suggested , 'boltzmann distrib' of coffee speck velocities, almost certainly has high end that grinds pieces of your vessel into the output
1905733;1553795005;mircea_popescu;if you add up the miles, soon enough the toyota's ground into a toaster oven
1905734;1553795024;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: illustrative case would be dust ( e.g. desert ) wear
1905735;1553795032;asciilifeform;when goes fastenuff, errything is 'rock'
1905736;1553795034;mircea_popescu;and then going even lower, there's of course sand. which was ww2 killer in africa .
1905737;1553795054;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, item genuinely was sunk a meter into sand, took girls half hour to dig it back out.
1905738;1553795093;mircea_popescu;(i muchly doubt azn make'd have ever made it out on own power, at that.)
1905739;1553795111;mircea_popescu;one of those cases where yes it makes difference to have 300 rather than 30 hp available.
1905740;1553795136;asciilifeform;you can get 300 horse from asia, wainot
1905741;1553795166;mircea_popescu;i dunno, whai not. i never looked at it before, because i'm a loyal kind. but the way the germans are going... yes, of course eventually you lose me.
1905742;1553795174;mircea_popescu;nobody can insult a customer forever and keep him.
1905743;1553795198;*;asciilifeform never ran auto on mircea_popescustan-like terrain, cannot make specific claim re subj. but imho oughta compare like to like
1905744;1553795251;mircea_popescu;im not saying it's strinctly impossible bonluck or ssongyank or w/e makes cars just as good as bayernische krankenwerken or whatever. it is a fact though, i never looked at it seriously before. chiefly because never had to.
1905745;1553795336;asciilifeform;fairnuff
1905746;1553795369;mircea_popescu;http://www.bonluckbus.com/ << not made up, btw.
1905747;1553795398;mircea_popescu;"ticabus", ie, local operator, actually on their website roll.
1905748;1553795400;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, earlier this yr when asciilifeform looked at (optical) microscopes, found out that germany apparently defeated by jp , in late '90s
1905749;1553795436;mircea_popescu;http://www.bonluckbus.com/imageRepository/ce87e380-e159-44e9-97e5-c25d2e9d9a5e.png
1905750;1553795439;asciilifeform;( in asciilifeform's various lives, only ever used 'zeiss' , but apparently zeiss sinking )
1905751;1553795449;mircea_popescu;heh.
1905752;1553795484;asciilifeform;optical , btw, will handily do the bolix job, when comes time, with oil-immersion objective.
1905753;1553795493;asciilifeform;just gotta find 1 that actually worx..
1905754;1553795736;mircea_popescu;re-reading today it occurs to me... you know we're having some fucking excellent discussions these days ?
1905755;1553795773;*;asciilifeform does particularly enjoy the maffs thrds
1905756;1553795794;asciilifeform;'tis funny , really, who else has any
1905757;1553795804;asciilifeform;heathendom afaik is moar or less bone dry at this pt
1905758;1553795839;mircea_popescu;no math.expertsexchange.com ?
1905759;1553795855;asciilifeform;ooh yes
1905760;1553795858;asciilifeform;it's fulla http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895439 tho
1905761;1553795858;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 15:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i associate shitoverflow with articles like 'how do i cast 'fireball' in real life?' ( actual find )
1905762;1553795862;asciilifeform;and ~0 maff..
1905763;1553795872;mircea_popescu;all sex change an' no maff ?
1905764;1553795880;asciilifeform;near as i can tell
1905765;1553795885;asciilifeform;btw recall the one re phuctor ?
1905766;1553795890;mircea_popescu;heh
1905767;1553795896;asciilifeform;where 'evil libel, no such thing as...' etc
1905768;1553795907;mircea_popescu;how could i forget.
1905769;1553795954;asciilifeform;( aaand of course they marked it as 'canonical answer' , for then google to auto-return, etc .. )
1905770;1553795962;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905566 << did you ever say the how here ? wtf half-confession was this.
1905771;1553795962;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:22 asciilifeform: before taking off , decided to buy sumthing from the carpet men, and bought a pocket watch. appeared to be keeping correct time, spiffy-looking '20s german thing
1905772;1553795982;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905568 answ
1905773;1553795982;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:22 asciilifeform: ( carpet man of course set'em erry day ... )
1905774;1553796010;asciilifeform;if you pick it up an' watch it for 5min, you dun know that it loses 1/20sec / min
1905775;1553796014;mircea_popescu;i dunno what all this "canonical" bs ever does. eg, they invented some alt- mircea_popescu a few years ago, to auto-return, great expert bla bla. did ~nothing, sunk back into the gavinvat.
1905776;1553796079;mircea_popescu;oh oh, set them every day. i read "sold them every day". i c lol.
1905777;1553796109;mircea_popescu;you know, old watches did need to be set every day. we even discussed this in the logs, as to the function of big ben etc.
1905778;1553796166;asciilifeform;ya but iirc that thrd was re 16th-18th c pieces
1905779;1553796168;asciilifeform;not 20th
1905780;1553796188;mircea_popescu;yes well.
1905781;1553796211;asciilifeform;even my sovok alarm clock keeps to <1s/day (yes sovok made alarm clocks with rubies, thermocompensated spring, etc. i could not say exactly why, prolly same factory made for submarine as for desktop ... )
1905782;1553796214;mircea_popescu;and more 16 than 18, at that. nevertheless -- maybe you lucked out. "should you be able to bend a solid gold watch ?"
1905783;1553796228;asciilifeform;defo 'lucked out' lol
1905784;1553796253;mircea_popescu;https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ceas+desteptator+rubine << pretty sure we discussed before.
1905785;1553796277;asciilifeform;there it is !
1905786;1553796278;asciilifeform;'slava'
1905787;1553796291;asciilifeform;defo came up in log
1905788;1553796303;mircea_popescu;http://ceasuridemana.ro/pictures/2015/05/16/lot-2-ceasuri-de-masa-desteptatoare-slava-218564-ac4f1c9a.jpg << yeah right ? quite similar to mom's.
1905789;1553796322;asciilifeform;interesting ! with english dial..
1905790;1553796328;asciilifeform;i had nfi these also existed
1905791;1553796329;mircea_popescu;export version
1905792;1553796342;*;asciilifeform had nfi item were ever exported
1905793;1553796361;asciilifeform;btw for added lulz, open an american mechanical alarm ( from any period ) some time
1905794;1553796384;asciilifeform;0 ruby , 19th.c escapement, rando pot metal for all parts , etc
1905795;1553796404;asciilifeform;the sov item is closer to an enlarged copy of swiss pocket movement
1905796;1553796417;*;asciilifeform actually dug up the orig schem + repair text, when was repairing
1905797;1553796536;mircea_popescu;aha.
1905798;1553796569;mircea_popescu;mechanical table clocks in us very truthful witness to the "we too"ism of the place, in the sense it is contemplated here.
1905799;1553796641;asciilifeform;the amers seem to have worked from the start on 'how to make the shittiest item from these fine materials', sovok opposite, 'how to make the strongest design from these shite materials'
1905800;1553796727;asciilifeform;*shittiest sellable
1905801;1553796815;asciilifeform;even the 'shite materials of sovok' comes with an asterisk. there was no impetus for intel-style 'market stratification', so if it was overall +ev to have ~all~ clocks use ruby and beryllium copper gears, then all would, had no reason to have 2 production lines when could 1
1905802;1553796887;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-10#1480741 << see also apropos
1905803;1553796887;a111;Logged on 2016-06-10 21:43 asciilifeform: 'Suppose you have a company that sets out to make a widget. Let's call it Company A. Its founders are all engineers, of an uncompromising sort, and the widget they design and manufacture is of tremendous longevity, durability and overall quality.... When consumers refuse to pay so much more than they feel they have to, Company A's widget fails in the marketplace, and the company is liquidated.'
1905804;1553796915;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-16#758235 << err, orig thrd
1905805;1553796915;a111;Logged on 2014-07-16 19:04 mircea_popescu: "Suppose you have a company that sets out to make a widget. Let's call it Company A. Its founders are all engineers, of an uncompromising sort, and the widget they design and manufacture is of tremendous longevity, durability and overall quality." << hey check out orlov.
1905806;1553797022;mircea_popescu;tbh, the industrial reductionism of "better make one good car than three differently bad ones" is perhaps the most notable result to come out of the great soviet industrial experiment. and, amusingly enough, still very poorly understood, as illustrated in all sort and manner of lulz such as say http://trilema.com/2010/masini-bune-si-masini-de-lux/#selection-53.131-53.445
1905807;1553797068;asciilifeform;the 'konsoomer economy' derps are married to not understanding it, so not mega-surprise
1905808;1553797071;mircea_popescu;god knows it informs a lot of the strategic and systems design work at the core of the republic.
1905809;1553797222;asciilifeform;when you bought a e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896849 , got moar schematics than ~anyone knew what to do with , right in the box . but when buy ipnoje, what you really buy is... what? the privilege to pay crapple for next 1 in 6 mo...
1905810;1553797222;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 00:00 asciilifeform was given 'mk61' at same age i think diana_coman's kid is nao
1905811;1553797236;asciilifeform;or hundy when battery dies, which comes 1st
1905812;1553797317;asciilifeform;( won't even touch the subj of how the sovok box designers never even entertained as a joke the notion that it'd prevent operator from running certain proggies )
1905813;1553797322;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-16#758238 << speaking of, here's some lulz. so i had recently occasion to employ the services of the consul of teh koninkrijk der nederlanden in san jose to interface some diplomatic business with the romanian mission not present here for my convenience.
1905814;1553797322;a111;Logged on 2014-07-16 19:09 mircea_popescu: They work to boost revenue by offering an extended warranty or a service plan (made necessary by frequent breakdowns), charging for premium customer service (made necessary by their normal customer service, which consists of a robotic phone maze backed by a few trainees in India who just read aloud from Company B's public web site in a listless, stuttering monotone) and offering numerous enhancements and upgrades (made
1905815;1553797375;mircea_popescu;these two countries are not mere neighbours, nor mere allies, but part together of a fucking compact! and yet, the consul has no notion of his correspondents, nor even is their administration advanced enough to provide its diplomats with that most basic tool of all : a fucking list of names and contact details of the ALLIES!!! representatitves.
1905816;1553797395;mircea_popescu;no such thing, chick was googling, discovering conflicting information on random webpages neglected for who knows how many years...
1905817;1553797408;mircea_popescu;can you believe this ?
1905818;1553797459;asciilifeform;this sounds like an asciilifeform episode from coupla yrs ago
1905819;1553797479;mircea_popescu;i actually had to fall back on my own secret service background to extract through THAT AVENUE the information that she needed in such a packaging and under such wot signaturs as i could trust, because god fucking help me if she was gonna send shit to random endpoints "culled from the www"
1905820;1553797519;asciilifeform;asciilifeform found out that the local copper telco bldg ( a princely 1950s fortress-like thing, with 2 metre-thick walls , diesels, 8 stories of space , etc ) was -- like most similars -- nao a dc colo. so went, naively, to try to price a rack ;
1905821;1553797531;mircea_popescu;and then these things flatter themselves with (purely hallucinated) statehood. yet in any practical sense, the troop of retards posing as "reigning house" of the netherlands (have you seen them btw ?) is sitting atop something infinitely less statal than this here republic.
1905822;1553797549;asciilifeform;called up the $monopoly whose plaquard was on the side of bldg. after 4 hrs of phone tag, 'we sold it to $co-nobody-heard-of, it aint ours'
1905823;1553797554;asciilifeform;called $co , guesswat
1905824;1553797555;mircea_popescu;because at the very least, when alf goes to meet bingoboingo, he doesn't start yelling at airport.
1905825;1553797559;asciilifeform;'we never heard of this thing'
1905826;1553797572;asciilifeform;who owns ? only devil knows
1905827;1553797579;mircea_popescu;heh.
1905828;1553797586;asciilifeform;usg , naturally, but by what structure, can only ask beelzebub
1905829;1553797586;mircea_popescu;they lie. simply not open to public.
1905830;1553797603;asciilifeform;naturally not, there wasn't a money-takin' hole that could be gotten to with naked eye.
1905831;1553797620;mircea_popescu;which is quite substantially different from matters eminently of record, such as "who are, truly, the intended and delcared diplomatic endpoints of so and so pretend-sovereign"
1905832;1553797638;asciilifeform;fwiw thing, from what can be seen through the windows ( in those days built with , believe, windows.. ) largely (but not entirely) empty.
1905833;1553797669;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the ownership of telcoisms in usa also nominally matter of official record, at least since at&t divestiture
1905834;1553797676;asciilifeform;and subj of elaborate bureaucrowank
1905835;1553797685;asciilifeform;but there it was, as opaque as anyffin in eltsin's ru
1905836;1553797731;mircea_popescu;great leaps forward, what can i say.
1905837;1553797785;asciilifeform;thing was/is 1 of the major local landmarks, not only in sheer mass but in clear 'vhs era' provenance, what with brick and marble facade with little angel frescoes etc
1905838;1553797899;asciilifeform;what copper tel. wire still exists in the town, terminates there
1905839;1553797905;asciilifeform;( as does most gsm , on roof )
1905840;1553798044;mircea_popescu;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Db9ebU8VQAEksT4.jpg << item. wtf is that, the local supermarket manager and his wife ?
1905841;1553798088;asciilifeform;based on my naked eye survey of the grounds, the mains transformers could not actually support 'adult sized' colo. and usg dun like small colos, they want http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904728 , 'all the bodies in 1 hole', so to easier 'we will we will beat'
1905842;1553798088;a111;Logged on 2019-03-25 16:40 asciilifeform: oblig : 'Всіх панів до ’дної ями, Буржуїв за буржуями Будем, будем бить! Будем, будем бить!'(tm)(r)(pavlo tichina)(ukr)
1905843;1553798093;asciilifeform;so thing lies fallow.
1905844;1553798118;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wassat ?
1905845;1553798167;mircea_popescu;royal fambly, supposedly. in the sense netherlands is a sovereign, or embassies of these papie mache constructions exist.
1905846;1553798174;asciilifeform;aa 1 of those
1905847;1553798182;asciilifeform;a la brits, swedes, jp , tourist showpieces
1905848;1553798228;mircea_popescu;just about, http://trilema.com/2016/petty-private-satisfactions/#selection-65.607-65.893 items.
1905849;1553798257;asciilifeform;who ( outside of possib. thailand ? ) has even quasi-working set of royals anymoar
1905850;1553798267;asciilifeform;( and iirc mircea_popescu made case that not them either )
1905851;1553798293;mircea_popescu;not rly my problem. if no jew has butter, let no jew keep jars labelled butted about.
1905852;1553798295;asciilifeform;they're exactly == to the angel carvings on that telco thing
1905853;1553798462;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reich is just about at the stage where 'whaddayamean, butter, says right on the jar' 'it's fulla liquishit' 'that's what is butter'
1905854;1553798545;mircea_popescu;i suppose in retrospect http://trilema.com/2016/petty-private-satisfactions/#footnote_0_67595 goes exceedinglky well with http://mocky.org/inshAllah/ ; being exactly the same thing and self-evidently BEFORE the "success". ie, the quatari aren't thus ruined by their windfall -- their pre-existing mental cockroaches are merely evinced by the windfall, but absent that they'd have the same "mental processes", as argentines in
1905855;1553798546;mircea_popescu;fact do.
1905856;1553798559;mircea_popescu;poor people are poor people BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE, and wealth dun fix this.
1905857;1553798580;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's an elementary, imho, case of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905557
1905858;1553798580;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:19 asciilifeform: historically, by sharp stick. at least in the case of what's ordinarily called lottery. cuz winning dun banish from the head the cockroaches that made'em play to begin with
1905859;1553798658;mircea_popescu;seems that there is in fact a "mentality of the idiot", and quite readily recognized, hence ready http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905630 recognitions.
1905860;1553798658;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 16:54 BingoBoingo: Her cause can be reduced to that unyielding socialist faith. "It imagined it working, why isn't it?"
1905861;1553798758;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: from my admittedly distant perch , seems that argentina is even further stage of retardation than qatar -- has all kindsa mineral extractables, but manages not even to qatar
1905862;1553798814;asciilifeform;entirely possib that if qatar did not have the brits show up to drill , would be still fucking camels nao
1905863;1553798864;mircea_popescu;i suppose qatar doesn'rt either -- white devils come to extract. in any case this is how it went back in ceausescu days. whole http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1902161 reduces to "man attempted to turn romanians into the white devil"
1905864;1553798864;a111;Logged on 2019-03-13 22:36 mircea_popescu: but yes, ceausescu's imperialist plans were obviously going to fail by the time mid 70s turned around, and were well and thoroughly doomed in 1980.
1905865;1553798870;asciilifeform;'grandfather rode camel, i ride merc 600, but my grandson will also ride camel' -- i fughet who , in petrostan , but well-known
1905866;1553798904;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-05#1422716 << see also
1905867;1553798904;a111;Logged on 2016-03-05 18:21 asciilifeform: stalin followed peter's 'colonization with the crown as sole european' model.
1905868;1553798908;asciilifeform;well-known model in ru
1905869;1553798946;mircea_popescu;it failed over the designated-white-devil's objection to [http://trilema.com/2015/futurology-or-the-very-scary-story-of-how-doomed-you-are/#footnote_3_59906][throwing the curve] as well as the owned pleb's objection that "[http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-22#1350377][they shouldn't have to do shoes every day]".
1905870;1553798946;a111;Logged on 2015-12-22 14:54 mircea_popescu: the fundamental argentinian-ness of the human mind, "oh, ok, this is what i get paid, now how could i move down what i gottaq do for it ?" really needs the british imperial "fuck you, you don't eat" as typified by lord newton.
1905871;1553799116;mircea_popescu;aka "we don't want to BE europe, we just want to JOIN europe". that's what any retarded kid not belonging in school asks misfortunate teacher : how to cast fireballs irl, aka how to be rich while staying poor, aka how to appear without being and so forth.
1905872;1553799251;mircea_popescu;but to put the lulz of the original http://trilema.com/2009/doua-curve/ in context : so i come back to romania cca 2007, and some chick is making a "top of romanians in online" which is fulla names i never saw before and contains nobody of the people atthe time i knew made and turrned the net.
1905873;1553799278;asciilifeform;i suspect that if zimbabwe were offered to 'join europe' in the sense of 'get payola like greece' , would immediately join, noshit
1905874;1553799287;mircea_popescu;her answer to "wtf ios wrong with you" was "well, i never heard of the others, so they don't exist" ; but the REASON that was the answer was that ~i~ knew who the fuck she was within two hours, because guess what, my mother of all people actually knew her.
1905875;1553799313;mircea_popescu;talk about connectivity, right ? who heard of what and who knows what and "hurr durr, embassy but dunno phone numbers, not even of the other dorks in the same line from the same place" and so fucking on.
1905876;1553799405;mircea_popescu;and at no fucking point does this drastic disparity bother the morons at all. i can tell you where any random leah lives, and what she last ate, or when she ate last, but then http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905769 as fucking if.
1905877;1553799405;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 17:59 asciilifeform: ( aaand of course they marked it as 'canonical answer' , for then google to auto-return, etc .. )
1905878;1553799406;asciilifeform;in this position ( as in the telco anecdote ) asciilifeform would simply suppose that the public facade is cheap camo , and has ~0 to do with the actual internal wot
1905879;1553799416;mircea_popescu;what the everloving fuck is it supposed to achieve, in these nitwits' brains ?!
1905880;1553799449;asciilifeform;i.e. it's part of the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-19#568248 structure
1905881;1553799449;a111;Logged on 2014-03-19 20:59 asciilifeform: petent at dealing with the human cattle : fastfood providers, supermarkets, the government. Both as employers and providers these specialised bureaucracies have the necessary tools, including cattle prods (or whatever they’re called now, non-lethal something or the other) to correctly handle them. They have the chemicals, they’ve done the research, know the behavioural patterns, have the walls all built to
1905882;1553799464;asciilifeform;while the actual nomenklatura has entirely working list for own use
1905883;1553799473;mircea_popescu;"we don't know anything about you, and this ignorance enacts you into inexistence ; notwithstanding you know everything about us, this knowledge doesn't enact us into inexistence".
1905884;1553799487;mircea_popescu;somehow, magically, the fact that the cheetah sees the ostrich is not a guarantee of the ostrich's death.
1905885;1553799502;mircea_popescu;rather, the fact that the ostrich doesn't see the cheetah's a guarantee -- of the cheeta's inexistence.
1905886;1553799515;mircea_popescu;wtf, what sort of dodo brains are required for this nonsense to wash ?!
1905887;1553799541;asciilifeform;all that's req'd is for there to be <1 cheeta for >1 battallion of ostrich
1905888;1553799551;asciilifeform;i.e. how many are of these chix, vs how many did mircea_popescu eat
1905889;1553799577;mircea_popescu;earthly paradise, i don't imagine any cheetah ever complained of good hunting.
1905890;1553799596;asciilifeform;'и волки сыты и овцы целы' (tm)(r)
1905891;1553799611;asciilifeform;at least far as the sheep are concerned , 'i aint been eaten yet, so wats the problem' etc
1905892;1553799623;mircea_popescu;A+
1905893;1553799645;asciilifeform;dodo is exactly the model
1905894;1553799649;mircea_popescu;quite, yes.
1905895;1553799732;asciilifeform;as for the diplomats , would mircea_popescu even prefer that 'allcomers' could actually find'em ?
1905896;1553799744;asciilifeform;picture if had to stand in a queue of erry idjit who googled
1905897;1553799772;asciilifeform;( and if 'but i'm mircea_popescu , why would i have to stand in queue' --guesswat , already didn't have to , eh. so where is the problem with the mechanism of why didn't have to ? )
1905898;1553799819;mircea_popescu;im not saying there's something wrong from my side, keks.
1905899;1553799829;mircea_popescu;i'm just amused at attempt to look at it from other side.
1905900;1553799833;asciilifeform;i.e. it's their answer to living in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905147 world
1905901;1553799833;a111;Logged on 2019-03-27 18:09 mircea_popescu: no markings are clear in modern democracy. it's written in the constitution : everyone is to be idemnified for all things they do not read.
1905902;1553799855;mircea_popescu;it's kinda mindblowing, at least at first. "srsly, this is how sheep world looks through sheep eyes ?! wow."
1905903;1553799877;asciilifeform;as plebe , asciilifeform would in fact prefer if they said up-front ' if yer mother didn't go to school with his majesty's , dun bother knocking ' , it'd waste less of his time
1905904;1553799896;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, nevermind what i preferred, specifically. it is literally the extent of their job, to be found, this particular set. that's all they're for, like a mcdonalds.
1905905;1553799900;mircea_popescu;they don't do anything else.
1905906;1553799914;asciilifeform;rright but could do their job , if in fact findable 'like mcdonalds' ?
1905907;1553799925;asciilifeform;or gotta 'unprincipled exception' to even ~begin~ to do the job
1905908;1553799936;mircea_popescu;yes lol! all they do is fuck with paperwork, literally their job is "endpoint of X supposed sovereign in Y supposed sovereign lands"
1905909;1553799951;mircea_popescu;the item as encountered in practice is ~equivalent to the sovok era "telephone receiver locked in box"
1905910;1553799969;asciilifeform;i suspect that if all-comers could actually submit the paper , place would looke like sovok 'avir'
1905911;1553799973;mircea_popescu;"why is telephone in an office it doesn't serve ?"
1905912;1553799975;asciilifeform;i.e. decade wait for process
1905913;1553800018;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, so you make it larger, wtf. this is like saying "if anyone who wanted a happy meal could get one, place would look like disneyworld":. the fucking point is for it to yes, do just that. entire existence of the fiat sovereigns is ~predicatged~ on people doing just this.
1905914;1553800033;asciilifeform;recall how ameri-corps run their 'tech support'
1905915;1553800043;mircea_popescu;they gain exactly nothing from their failure to self-represent, exactly like a hidden mcdonalds does nothing to forward the aggenda of rooseveletism
1905916;1553800050;mircea_popescu;but this isn't tech support!
1905917;1553800062;mircea_popescu;this is the ~advertising~.
1905918;1553800075;asciilifeform;where's the operative diff ? embassy is 99% of the time 'tech support' for immigration paper
1905919;1553800091;mircea_popescu;that;d be the consular section.
1905920;1553800101;mircea_popescu;embassy is 99% of the time support for local businessmen.
1905921;1553800106;asciilifeform;a
1905922;1553800113;asciilifeform;then i got nuffin
1905923;1553800157;mircea_popescu;that's what embassy does, if joe the turkish merchant is in greece, and he decides he wants to give moe the turkish merchant his ankara house to manage, the turkish embassy in greece takes some paper from him and sends it over.
1905924;1553800166;mircea_popescu;there is NO benefit for the turkish state to hide the endpoint of this.
1905925;1553800207;mircea_popescu;on the contrary -- the more turkish merchants rely on this service of the turkish state through its embassy, the better for the turkish state, it can better convince them to pay taxes.
1905926;1553800229;mircea_popescu;whereas the less they use it, the more the greek state could claim they're in fact greek merchants, and tax them instead.
1905927;1553800240;mircea_popescu;whole fucking point of embassies flows from this, "we dun wanna lose taxable base through travel"
1905928;1553800474;mircea_popescu;moeover, the 2nd function of embassy is to collect data. legally, not illegally, it's not the secret service, it's the diplomatic service. what confidence would you as a putative ivan groznii put in data flowing through your embassies when these sad concoctions were manned by idiots so fucking inept, they don't even have a black book with the phone numbers of ~their fucking colleagues~. every 15yo boy has a book with his c
1905929;1553800474;mircea_popescu;lassmates' phone numbers as a first step to successful sexual congress, but not these dorks.
1905930;1553800506;*;asciilifeform buys
1905931;1553800527;mircea_popescu;what would you think of a lord who actually googled for your key ? didn't have it in keyriong, something like wot.deedbot DIDNT EVEN EXIST
1905932;1553800541;mircea_popescu;they just fucking googled, general purpose tool applied to particular task, 0 shits given.
1905933;1553800553;mircea_popescu;would the republic look much like a sovereign if that was the average practice ?
1905934;1553800632;mircea_popescu;rando schmucks drop in here every day, fail the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905146 test with flying colors, they could be fiat sovereign diplomatic core without skipping a bit. becauise the pretenders factually and experimentally verifiedly are quite that inept, yes.
1905935;1553800632;a111;Logged on 2019-03-27 18:09 asciilifeform: gotta wonder re the thought process. door clearly marked 'If you don't know where you are, you shouldn't be here.' eh .
1905936;1553800672;asciilifeform;embassy as i understand it, as concept , pre-dates not only pubkey but even telegraph , and was never fully upgraded , rly expects to operate on meat-to-meat ( and witness usg delightfully exploiting this, creats all kinds fake embassies , i went coupla yrs ago to , believe, tour of 'iraq embassy' , 100% usg.blue creation )
1905937;1553800704;asciilifeform;or let's even recall that 'bitcoin embassy' mircea_popescu dug up
1905938;1553800743;mircea_popescu;it seems to me a ridoinculous chunk of nonsense, "embassy was never upgraded". tell you what -- an army is a group of men assembled to rectify the mistakes of diplomats. the only item more keenly in synch with technology is the embassy -- step ahead of military.
1905939;1553800765;asciilifeform;rright and when no army, what then means embassy ?
1905940;1553800775;mircea_popescu;you got me there.
1905941;1553800789;mircea_popescu;supposedly, "everything", in practice same exact "everything" as seen in marriage.
1905942;1553800790;asciilifeform;entirely possible to argue that no such thing as 'nederlanden' embassy, it's simply branch office of washington's
1905943;1553800843;asciilifeform;rly they oughtta take a page from the old sovok, and unify the thing, save on cost of printing stationary
1905944;1553800854;asciilifeform;there was no e.g. 'embassy of latvia', only of sovok
1905945;1553800876;mircea_popescu;well, they did this, ro-nl are in such a compact.
1905946;1553800887;asciilifeform;whereas today, behold, you can go into 'embassy of latvia', where folx hand-picked by washington dos will show you in which queue to sit etc
1905947;1553800893;mircea_popescu;ie, you can use any eu embassy indistinctly. at least in theory. in practice -- they're fucked.
1905948;1553800901;asciilifeform;evidently
1905949;1553801103;mircea_popescu;anyway, one aspect of this is fo sho : traditional (with a view of only) function of embassy is as "den of corruption", ie, they acquire over time intimate knowledge of detail, can help you do things.
1905950;1553801160;mircea_popescu;no such thing still available, from white world embassies, at least not at the level where it should be. the iranis, eg, still do this for their citizens. the usgtards don't because they have no citizens, it's all govt entreprises and plebs.
1905951;1553801184;mircea_popescu;the euros are the saddest of them all -- they dun have the state entreprises, notrly, and they dun have the other half either, not really, it's a wonder they persevere.
1905952;1553801212;mircea_popescu;(very typically EMPTY, an eu embassy, too. besides purely ceremonial "third cousin of president/king taking vacation", there's ~nothing happening)
1905953;1553801855;BingoBoingo;This city is littered with those things
1905954;1553801911;BingoBoingo;UK embassy here is roughly equal to a small clubhouse with pool and Satellite tv.
1905955;1553801992;mircea_popescu;ah yeah, the uk embassies. that was a lulz of all time during the "union" while it lasted -- the brits had the first useful, and perhaps the last functioning, embassy network.
1905956;1553802013;mircea_popescu;but that "best-by" date's sometime before rhodesia's end, i guess.
1905957;1553802130;BingoBoingo;I mean it has mega fence, but... the place is just about a country club minus the land for golfing.
1905958;1553802167;mircea_popescu;the fencing's the other fucking thing. who the fuck heard of fenced in embassies anyways.
1905959;1553802204;mircea_popescu;ie, if the locals wanna come over, you wanna not let them ?! wtf, are you fucked in the head ? and then go about spending money to makle events to raise profile ? while at the same time throwing away the freely had curious visitors ?
1905960;1553802209;BingoBoingo;Romania has the obligatory "Sleep on this stoop and you get fucked" fence to keep the pichis off the porch, but otherwise clear walk to the door.
1905961;1553802246;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo, romania does a lot of things right though i suspect by accident. ie, none of the idiotic glass walsl, either, you visit you sit down in front of old style desk, like sane people.
1905962;1553802311;mircea_popescu;generally there's a girly around ready to hand some fliers or w/e to whatever adventurous locals.
1905963;1553802344;mircea_popescu;when i visited the one in argentina, they were just entertaining a local older woman with a pile of 1910s era letters from her romanian-immigrated ancestors.
1905964;1553802368;mircea_popescu;the old woman wanted to know if she maybe has a lot of castles-in-spain style "unknwon inheritance", typical argentine thought process.
1905965;1553802422;BingoBoingo;Entertaining her with the marketing budget is the point.
1905966;1553802434;BingoBoingo;As opposed to the stories I have heard from US embassy.
1905967;1553802457;BingoBoingo;Where no one is particularly welcome and everything uses EMAIL as a gatekeeper.
1905968;1553802757;mircea_popescu;us embassy works sorta like an us airport.
1905969;1553802787;mircea_popescu;you don't get much done, you're uncomfortable while it's happening, and they have very strange notions of ritual purity, unparalleled even by the shiite.
1905970;1553803109;mircea_popescu;i suppose one can't fairly discuss the matter without pointing out that the ogilvy-derivative concept of "pr agency" is precisely this, witness to the usg's self-aware failure to develop a diplomatic service and a woprking embassy network, leaving the english as the last practitioner of the florentine art.
1905971;1553803175;mircea_popescu;(an argentine, btw)
1905972;1553803253;BingoBoingo;Well, how could they when they went from Seward through the end of WWII without Europe slapping them?
1905973;1553803308;BingoBoingo;Lincoln winning the war of Northern Aggression in this respect was a European failure.
1905974;1553803309;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, might appreciate https://www.agamarvel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/aga_ogilvy_booklet.pdf ; rathert a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764714 item, at least by the lights of the anglos.
1905975;1553803309;a111;Logged on 2018-01-05 02:51 asciilifeform recently reread 'tigerfibel', really a megaclassic of technical writing for all time 
1905976;1553803543;asciilifeform;notbad
1905977;1553803845;mircea_popescu;note that the core of the advice the chief practitioner of what's left of us economy consists of... !!!!!!DO NOT!!!!!!! pretend to lordship!!!!
1905978;1553803853;mircea_popescu;no bowler hats, no front doors, know your place plebe
1905979;1553803931;mircea_popescu;his other advice ? study!
1905980;1553803957;mircea_popescu;it's like the fucktards are trying to build an empire on knives, but bereft of a blade and missing a handle.
1905981;1553804056;asciilifeform;'There are certain universal rules. Dress quietly and shave well. Do not wear a bowler hat. Go to the back door (most salesmen go to the front door, a manoeuvre always resented by maid and mistress alike)'
1905982;1553804063;asciilifeform;very obv from the '30s brit orig
1905983;1553804106;asciilifeform;( most ameri-housing either has no back door , or glass thing that goes into fenced yard and defo no marketer would ever go there, liable to be bitten by dog or worse )
1905984;1553804126;mircea_popescu;quite.
1905985;1553804167;mircea_popescu;back before roosevelt and his successors permanently fixed the quality of life, a man's household (in which he kept a single woman and her issue, plus some servants) had a front door for peers and a back door for servants and suppliers
1905986;1553804178;asciilifeform;as i understand 'aga' is ~the~ prototype for the current-day ubiquitous kitchen stove
1905987;1553804195;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i know, lived in just such back in orcistan
1905988;1553804203;mircea_popescu;the butler (head servant) generally opened the front door ; the head maid did not open the back door -- usually you'd get one of the scullery maids.
1905989;1553804262;asciilifeform;and ubiquitous terminology there to this day, survived revolution and eltsins alike, парадный вход / черный вход ( 'parade entrance' , i.e. for people, 'black entrance' , i.e. for servants + garbage )
1905990;1553804307;mircea_popescu;the male staff was generally butler, gardener, chauffeur, one or two handymen [plus, of course, all the military folk, in older times]. the female staff was a maid for the wife, a maid or nanny for each child, a main cook, possibly a help, and a pair to n indistinct maids, brushing the silverware, abrading the tables one layer each week, scrubbing the floors etc.
1905991;1553804363;mircea_popescu;these latter were sometimes used as venereal-undiseased fuckrelief for the older son ; but generally, it's a harem with very little fucking going around.
1905992;1553804495;mircea_popescu;but in any case, the reasonably well to do man in the city kept dozen+ females + half dozen males in bread and shoes with little difficulty, and plenty of dough leftover for consols.
1905993;1553804546;asciilifeform;i suspect largely evaporated by '30s tho ; so not sure what the author was thinking
1905994;1553804655;asciilifeform;'The AGA is the only cooker in the world with a guaranteed maximum fuel consumption. It is guaranteed to burn less than £4 worth of fuel a year….. Stress the fact that no cook can make her AGA burn more fuel than this, however stupid, extravagant or careless she may be, or however much she may cook. If more fuel is consumed, it is being stolen, and the police should be called in immediately' << strikes me as peculiar claim ( what,
1905995;1553804655;asciilifeform; price of coal was a constant ? or vendor proposed to guarantee it ? )
1905996;1553804851;mircea_popescu;this, quite exactly ~this~ is the substance of hitler's lament, " It is similar in the world. It just does not work, to have 46 million British people block 40 million km² of earth and simply declare: God gave it to us, and 20 years ago we got some from you too; this is ours now, and will not give it back. And France, And France with  its not very fertile earth, almost 80 people on a square kilometer, yet they have over 9
1905997;1553804851;mircea_popescu; million km of trees. Germany with its over 80 million people does not have more than 600,000 km. "
1905998;1553804873;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, price of coal was fixed yes.
1905999;1553804892;asciilifeform;how'd that work ? sovok-style ?
1906000;1553804897;mircea_popescu;ayup.
1906001;1553804920;mircea_popescu;it worked because aforesaid british embassy set, and so everyone going to port in english ports bought coal. so they subsidized.
1906002;1553804934;asciilifeform;a++
1906003;1553804938;asciilifeform;while it lasts, i suppose
1906004;1553804942;mircea_popescu;recall ru fleet taking 3 years to reach japan ? "no access to british ports"
1906005;1553804952;asciilifeform;indeed
1906006;1553804976;mircea_popescu;also 4 pounds is an IMMENSE qty of coal.
1906007;1553805047;asciilifeform;coal miner earned, wat, 6 pounds, iirc , in period
1906008;1553805050;asciilifeform;in yr.
1906009;1553805051;mircea_popescu;silver is 15 dollars an ounce, by consequence 240 dollars per pound ; coal is ~80 dollars a short ton
1906010;1553805062;mircea_popescu;now how do you propose to burn three tons of coal in a year ?
1906011;1553805073;mircea_popescu;let alone TWELVE
1906012;1553805077;asciilifeform;in an 'aga', which burns 24/7 , lol
1906013;1553805082;mircea_popescu;even so.
1906014;1553805096;asciilifeform;as i understand thing doubled as furnace for room heat
1906015;1553805104;mircea_popescu;possibru yea
1906016;1553805122;asciilifeform;how else to explain the 'feature' where 'you dun need to light it! burns and burns'
1906017;1553805134;mircea_popescu;you ever burned coal ?
1906018;1553805142;asciilifeform;tbf ru peasant stove worked ~same
1906019;1553805148;asciilifeform;certainly burned coal
1906020;1553805158;asciilifeform;we had thread where i looked for photo of in what
1906021;1553805166;mircea_popescu;so you know i has this very great capacity for passivization, you can in fact start a fire again from a coal fire 6 hours old
1906022;1553805171;asciilifeform;indeed can
1906023;1553805175;mircea_popescu;right
1906024;1553805179;asciilifeform;thing is 'own pilot light'
1906025;1553805383;asciilifeform;in e.g. arctic circle , 'aga' would be a++ product
1906026;1553805391;asciilifeform;as it is, i dun fully grasp the appeal
1906027;1553805408;asciilifeform;seems like was a pyre to conspicuously burn money in, as it was
1906028;1553805597;asciilifeform;marketed to same landed gentry folx who e.g. kept own coal-fired generators stocked 24/7 on the estate , in early days of electric light
1906029;1553805602;asciilifeform;*stoked
1906030;1553805723;asciilifeform;( and prior to that, in age of gas light -- kept own gasworx running 24/7 )
1906031;1553808330;mircea_popescu;london is a shithole. half the year wet and cold.
1906032;1553808347;asciilifeform;that's gotta be the key.
1906033;1553808383;asciilifeform;i imagine that if that jp micro reactor thing had existed in '30s -- london would be fulla'em
1906034;1553808395;asciilifeform;the ultimate aga.
1906035;1553808549;asciilifeform;at the wattage a reasonably-sized brit lord's house might theoretically have appetite for, the fuel would last for century or 2
1906036;1553808654;asciilifeform;( for comparison, standard sovok sub reactor, somewhat larger affair, approx the size of mircea_popescu's bmw , was good for 20-30y of 300-400 MW )
1906037;1553808687;mircea_popescu;nb.
1906038;1553808709;asciilifeform;granted the jp item not as efficient, if you recall it's the pellet thing , built for constant output
1906039;1553808735;asciilifeform;but otoh it dun require a crew of 4 d00dz raising/lowering rods 24/7
1906040;1553808827;*;asciilifeform bbl:tea
1906041;1553809102;mircea_popescu;these days, with robotic rodding....
1906042;1553813679;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: interestingly, they ~had~ servos ; and even had pdp-like comp ; but did not trust the latter to connect to the former
1906043;1553813686;asciilifeform;iirc we had detailed thrd re subj
1906044;1553813696;mircea_popescu;aha.
1906045;1553813699;asciilifeform;thing was run kinda like trinque's wallet.
1906046;1553813781;*;asciilifeform recently read a pretty spiffy , and i dare say mircea_popescu-flavoured ( good % was re how, where, whom, the folx fucked ) memoir of sovok 'akula' sub officer in '90s. d00d was moar or less 'meat computer'
1906047;1553813933;asciilifeform;( the 48,000 tonne thing, btw, in natostan called for some reason 'typhoon', rather than the smaller. pretty interesting machine in own right, largest undersea vessel ever built )
1906048;1553814207;asciilifeform;$item was interesting largely for the description of eltsin-era navy , what with 'get spare parts somewhere, we won't say where' , 'you'll be paid next year' , questionable rations, boats sinking in dock, & related joys
1906049;1553818623;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/pgRtg << related, in re orc naval thematic.
1906050;1553818934;*;BingoBoingo has trinque's bootstrap.sh running. Going for a walk myself.
1906051;1553820162;asciilifeform;meanwhile, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch18/ffa_calc__adb.htm << final ch18 ; still working on the accompanying text
1906052;1553820398;asciilifeform;patch also cut & signed . is pretty large at ~50kB , but actually ranks behind ch14, 15, 11 (not speaking of genesis/1 lol)
1906053;1553820478;asciilifeform;if anyone's impatient, i'll link to the vpatch/seal, otherwise it'll wait for the text
1906054;1553820820;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905107 < i like the idea of a dev branch alongside a production branch. is the idea that after after a patch (or set of patches) is deemed mature enough it will then be added to the main branch?
1906055;1553820820;a111;Logged on 2019-03-27 17:14 mircea_popescu: billymg, if you're happy with it, one thing you could do is patch your testing suite as an alternate patch off mp-wp genesis ; this way people looking to test can just use it (and patch atop it if need be) rather than write from scratch.
1906056;1553820869;billymg;in terms of test suite, i didn't actually write any automated tests for mp-wp, i only meant the manual testing i did, plus reading my own patch a few times
1906057;1553820895;billymg;if that's what you meant by test suite, just to clarify
1906058;1553820972;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905200 < sounds good, i think it's in a good state. will try to have it patched on top of hanbot's on saturday
1906059;1553820972;a111;Logged on 2019-03-27 21:23 Mocky: billymg: if your tinymce patch is ready this weekend I'll test it with my setup.
1906060;1553821050;asciilifeform;phf: i found & removed the last uniturd ( was in the manifest.txt , from the day i made it ) . this however means that there in fact lies a uniturd in the 18 patch ( the removal line , naturally . ) after this i expect no moar .
1906061;1553821052;billymg;diana_coman: related to the test branch idea, if you have anything of yours you could point me to, for figuring out a v-centric testing flow, would be appreciated
1906062;1553821249;asciilifeform;ftr :   grep --color='auto' -P -n "[\x80-\xFF]" file   locates uniturds ( if yer 'grep' supports perlism )
1906063;1553821272;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat
1906064;1553831077;mircea_popescu;billymg, no, the idea is that you maintain a test suite.
1906065;1553831097;mircea_popescu;as in yes, automated tests, like say eucrypt has.
1906066;1553831113;mircea_popescu;not an emergency item or anything, but i thought you already had it, and that's what you meant by testing.
1906067;1553843598;diana_coman;billymg the tests I have are simply automated ada and/or c/cpp tests for the code, nothing v-specific really; from V's pov it's just code like the rest.
1906068;1553843659;diana_coman;it is in its own dir and project because that's what it is - a project that tests the code of interest.
1906069;1553854545;spyked;in spyked updates: aside from polishing feedbot part 2, I've also been playing with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-29#1906050 in the last coupla days. I'll post on blog with the results soon
1906070;1553854545;a111;Logged on 2019-03-29 00:22 BingoBoingo has trinque's bootstrap.sh running. Going for a walk myself.
1906071;1553854745;spyked;speaking of which: asciilifeform, any updates re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900589 / http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-06#1900675 ? I'm not in a rush; I have a temporary setup running, but thought I'd ping you re this
1906072;1553854745;a111;Logged on 2019-03-06 14:55 asciilifeform: spyked: yours for cost of postage. gpggram to asciilifeform with where you want it sent.
1906073;1553854745;a111;Logged on 2019-03-06 18:43 spyked: asciilifeform, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/udmXj/?raw=true
1906074;1553863815;billymg;mircea_popescu, diana_coman: sorry, i misunderstood. makes sense now, will add it to my list
1906075;1553868423;asciilifeform;spyked: ty for the ping , item got literally buried under pile of papers. dug it up nao , and i'ma post it tomorrow morning.
1906076;1553885444;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-reds-of-1879/ << Trilema -- The reds of 1879
1906077;1553886386;BingoBoingo;!!v 0FA0091950B1E9876E8EED9D054E6094E57112729C619E13EDB9768C109147B6
1906078;1553886391;deedbot;Invoiced asciilifeform 5 << Pizarro Second Round
1906079;1553886398;BingoBoingo;!!v 9B997DBF02FF940F939B71C2E71B0BE5DBD1C3D056477EF7AFD64B855DB3938F
1906080;1553886404;deedbot;Invoiced mod6 5 << Pizarro Second Round
1906081;1553886471;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plox to reinvoice me with '4', and i'ma owe 1 worth of orcbux movement
1906082;1553886476;asciilifeform;then can settle faster
1906083;1553886519;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: aite, End of April is when we need to get the datacenter the next cash infusion.
1906084;1553886597;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ty. plox to ping me week or so prior so i can start the gears moving
1906085;1553886663;BingoBoingo;!!v 506DCEC2CD53615316EA20AC7851474F0522FE6FE6395CB475364424166293E8
1906086;1553886671;deedbot;BingoBoingo canceled asciilifeform invoice 5
1906087;1553886758;BingoBoingo;!!v 2C11119191994685CC9C47B76289E40CB8608CDD3BCE93FC626EFF8D7A2B7792
1906088;1553886763;deedbot;Invoiced asciilifeform 4 << Pizarro Second Round, 5th to pe paid shuffling orcbux
1906089;1553886836;asciilifeform;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 2
1906090;1553886844;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CNahi/?raw=true
1906091;1553886867;asciilifeform;!!v FF983F9F765195F11D657CCCF82DA0C7E57FE6E8F90A33023C051250FCD0372D
1906092;1553886916;asciilifeform;hmm is the thing wedged or wat
1906093;1553887056;asciilifeform;grr loox like i haven't filled it up to 4 either , nm
1906094;1553887144;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i hate to create headache, but plox to cut it into a 3 and a 1 , i'ma fill the 3 nao and the 1 when my hot noad actually syncs ( loox like ~wk left )
1906095;1553887592;BingoBoingo;!!v 99B9A84D95D53CC219CB7B782287AC5C3B3F019BFCBAB1243813C7C3C67C2494
1906096;1553887598;deedbot;BingoBoingo canceled asciilifeform invoice 2
1906097;1553887724;BingoBoingo;<deedbot> Invoiced asciilifeform 3 << Pizarro Second Round pt 1, 4th and 5th pending << Slipped the !!v in the other window
1906098;1553887817;asciilifeform;!!v 4DF0842E530292FCFAE31E2FA784A72AC0F70B9F157AF41CE97BE23489E865AB
1906099;1553887823;deedbot;asciilifeform paid BingoBoingo invoice 3
1906100;1553887828;BingoBoingo;ty
1906101;1553887849;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: sorry'bout the slow refuel. dun fughet to make the '1'
1906102;1553887867;*;BingoBoingo running bootstrap.sh again after neglecting to do it as root last time
1906103;1553887887;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, we gotta organize sometime.
1906104;1553892048;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/radical-feminism-in-the-romanian-fin-de-siecle/ << Trilema -- Radical feminism in the Romanian fin de siecle
1906105;1553900211;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/not-much-brexiting-on-brexit-day-as-brits-still-wanking-over-how-to-brexit/ << Qntra -- Not Much Brexiting On Brexit Day As Brits Still Wanking Over How To Brexit
1906106;1553909873;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3141 << Loper OS -- Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 18A: Subroutines in Peh.
1906107;1553909893;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf plox to snarf ch18, ty
1906108;1553921130;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in ye olde keks, http://trilema.com/2015/socialism-saved-for-later-lolz/
1906109;1553921132;mircea_popescu;"Gawker was an American blog founded by Nick Denton and Elizabeth Spiers and based in New York City focusing on celebrities and the media industry.[3] The blog promoted itself as "the source for daily Manhattan media news and gossip." According to third-party web analytics provider SimilarWeb, the site had over 23 million visits per month as of 2015. Current status	Defunct as of August 22nd, 2016"
1906110;1553921194;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ^ :D
1906111;1553921505;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf plox to snarf ch18, ty
1906112;1553921505;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1906113;1553921573;*;asciilifeform fixed the apparently inevitable broken link in 18
1906114;1553921753;*;asciilifeform back to bed
1906115;1553921842;mircea_popescu;nn
1906116;1553923091;BingoBoingo;Some folks mine hashes, I mine blogdeaths
1906117;1553923113;mircea_popescu;hehehe
1906118;1553923120;BingoBoingo;Anyways, no people in NY this century
1906119;1553923133;BingoBoingo;Especially not manhattan
1906120;1553923143;mircea_popescu;pretty fucking lulzy to look back in the timeline and stumble over perfect calls.
1906121;1553923238;BingoBoingo;Seriously. Lately I've been enjoying the private satisfaction of Colita de Cuadril passing "Suprema de Ave" as the premium protein per peso cut of critter
1906122;1553923245;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896552 : smoked sprats served with penne al'olio, with vinegar pickles on the side and a sprinkling of capers is easily the most representatively venetian dish i ever had -- notwithstanding as far as i know i just invented it in my own kitchen
1906123;1553923245;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 19:28 mircea_popescu: because they're talking veneto.
1906124;1553923250;mircea_popescu;must try to believe.
1906125;1553923310;BingoBoingo;The seacritters to eat here... are lacking in variety
1906126;1553923502;BingoBoingo;Anyways, last I checked the corpse, Hamilton Nolan still not fired because he's the op's Political Officer.
1906127;1553923521;mircea_popescu;is this the dumb fat fuck from iowa ?
1906128;1553923573;BingoBoingo;Nah, the wannabe muscle dude. Looks almost exactly like Stomer's Anglin in 320x240 photos
1906129;1553923619;BingoBoingo;Iowa is just about all fat fucks. That's pig county
1906130;1553923776;BingoBoingo;Sample of the HamNo mentality https://archive.is/WtEVs
1906131;1553923794;BingoBoingo;"CAN YOU BELIEVE THEY HAVE THAT SHIT IN THEIR CONTRACT? IF I HAD KNOWN THAT WAS EVEN A POSSIBILITY I WOULD HAVE TRIED TO GET THAT IN MY OWN DAMN CONTRACT. YOU CAN’T LAY ME OFF, EVER? YOU MUST FIND ME A NEW JOB IN PERPETUITY? I HAVE BECOME KING OF THE WORKPLACE AND ALL I SURVEY. THE MIGHTY UNION HAS GRANTED US ALL A JOB FOR LIFE. BOW DOWN."
1906132;1553923867;mircea_popescu;it's how traditional marriage works, neh ? "can divorce the stupid cunt through the process of finding her a hubstitute. can also divorce prison or military service the same way"
1906133;1553923868;BingoBoingo;The eniggament
1906134;1553923909;BingoBoingo;NOT EVERYTHING IS MEANT TO BE MARRIED TO EVERYOTHER THING
1906135;1553923932;BingoBoingo;Otherwise the ring budget outruns the beef budget very quickly
1906136;1553923955;mircea_popescu;ya well
1906137;1553923991;mircea_popescu;anyway, the derpage's misplaced, what the fuck did he think "tenure" was ?
1906138;1553924061;BingoBoingo;Pretty much this https://longform.org/posts/my-kasual-kountry-weekend-with-the-knights-of-the-ku-klux-klan
1906139;1553924149;BingoBoingo;And oddity of oddities, the link to Gawker.com resolves alive
1906140;1553924486;BingoBoingo;In other undyings, apparently mozilla now exists to keep Java runtime alive https://archive.is/PhKa8
1906141;1553924539;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/modernism-and-traditionalism/#selection-489.1-511.1 strangely related.
1906142;1553924608;BingoBoingo;It's a mad world
1906143;1553924632;mircea_popescu;billymg, some dood bought it in bankruptcy proceedings last year. "23 million '''''''''visitors''''''''' " commanded ~$1.5mn. contrasting with http://trilema.com/2011/evaluari-rationale-in-ro/#comment-86130 one can peg intervening inflation at 300% over seven years.
1906144;1553924666;mircea_popescu;(which is actually quite close to reality ; certainly way the fuck close than anything reported by usg bureaucracy)
1906145;1553924893;mircea_popescu;i mean BingoBoingo
1906146;1553925179;BingoBoingo;What can I say, the future is autocorrupt
1906147;1553929849;mircea_popescu;speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-30#1906140 : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=234966 factually still a firefox bug today, FIFTEEN YEARS.
1906148;1553929849;a111;Logged on 2019-03-30 05:41 BingoBoingo: In other undyings, apparently mozilla now exists to keep Java runtime alive https://archive.is/PhKa8
1906149;1553930520;BingoBoingo;Well, we are burning shit down for ample reasons
1906150;1553960991;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in olds, asciilifeform's 'xor 2 small numbers'+'say fg baud' spam filter seems to be 100% effective (a 1st?!) -- 0 spams in trap since installed ( legit comments , not many , but work -- tho there were never many )
1906151;1553961728;mircea_popescu;a spam trap with 0 spams in it is not much of a trap hm ?
1906152;1553961774;asciilifeform;lol reduntant heh
1906153;1553961778;asciilifeform;*redundant
1906154;1553961779;mircea_popescu;oic
1906155;1553961792;asciilifeform;( it's the stock ancient-wp trap )
1906156;1553961823;mircea_popescu;"since stuffing buttplugs in all the slavegirls buttholes, there's 0 HS in the toilet gastrap. and their assholes still work, i checked -- though they never saw much use before either."
1906157;1553961844;asciilifeform;well no, wouldn't be interesting then, they still manage to take occasional shit
1906158;1553961865;mircea_popescu;"my concubine -- just when i figured she's about to deliver, she turned out to be fulla shit."
1906159;1553961899;asciilifeform;( dozen or so actual comments since glued in )
1906160;1553961916;asciilifeform;i gotta bake a 'recent comments' thing like mircea_popescu has , tho ( possibly will crib from his )
1906161;1553961953;mircea_popescu;whainot.
1906162;1553961973;asciilifeform;when i get a chance to fiddle with my wp again, tho, would 1st like to find & kill the uniturdation thing
1906163;1553961979;asciilifeform;presently i have nfi where it is
1906164;1553961994;mircea_popescu;which ?
1906165;1553962013;asciilifeform;where it corrupts quotes, ellipsis, longstrokes, into uniturds
1906166;1553962026;mircea_popescu;oh. lmao.
1906167;1553962047;asciilifeform;i cant fathom presently why that is even in there. but possibly this q dun have a logical answr
1906168;1553962077;mircea_popescu;the evil wreckers of the 90s were systematic in their dedication to destruction (called "democracy" and "humanism" whatevber bla bla in-universe)
1906169;1553962158;asciilifeform;even through ~this~ lens, seems peculiar. ( what does it achieve for'em, to litter www with бнопня вхрюк
1906170;1553962187;mircea_popescu;they perceive that opposition===conservative and their understanding of "conservative" is "would never break with tradition"
1906171;1553962209;mircea_popescu;a mistake powered by the fact that up until they came about tradition consisted of naggum's library. so of copurse thinking man wouldn't part with it.
1906172;1553962209;asciilifeform;for lack of any other hypothesis, i'ma buy
1906173;1553962234;mircea_popescu;the most disconcerting thing to pantsuit is the http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ stance.
1906174;1553962245;mircea_popescu;"what do you mean, you will burn ALL the books ?!?!" "of course i will, keks."
1906175;1553962265;mircea_popescu;so in their view, the fact that the uniturds ~are already there~ binds us to forever keeping them.
1906176;1553962318;asciilifeform;i.e. 'dun matter that you took the sweat to write it in king's english, we're gonna throw hieroglyphs in' ?
1906177;1553962320;asciilifeform;makes sense
1906178;1553962336;mircea_popescu;just like in their view, the fact that they befouled science with their politico idiocy means something about science. they didn't, by their lights, made the profession of "earth scientist" nigh on impossible for the average man. they, on the contrary, are forcing my hand when it comes to such topics.
1906179;1553962419;*;asciilifeform brb:teatime
1906180;1553965497;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-saddest-thing-in-the-world/ << Trilema -- The saddest thing in the world...
1906181;1553965707;*;asciilifeform was aboutta ask 'what's CheapWhore's mother lang' then realized the inescapable answr
1906182;1553965857;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/#comment-128755 << mega-likbez, btw, imho belongs in the log
1906183;1553965990;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: coupla broken linx in ^ btw, in penultimate para.
1906184;1553966251;mircea_popescu;o.O checking
1906185;1553966283;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, which ?!
1906186;1553966290;mircea_popescu;you don't mean "One time I want to draw your attention to #selection-387.154-389.22 while some other time #selection-43.21-43.46 is the point of interest." ? that's deliberate!
1906187;1553966298;mircea_popescu;trilema intertextual self-reference reaching new peaks!
1906188;1553966560;asciilifeform;a aa
1906189;1553971815;billymg;Mocky: updated mp-wp patch and sig available here: http://billymg.com/downloads/mp-wp/mp-wp_remove-tinymce-and-other-crud.vpatch http://billymg.com/downloads/mp-wp/mp-wp_remove-tinymce-and-other-crud.vpatch.billymg.sig
1906190;1553971841;billymg;this was reground to go on top of hanbot's latest to fix html tags in comments from logged out users
1906191;1553971848;billymg;writing blog post now...
1906192;1553973704;diana_coman;" Were Trilema as small as you ever wish it to be, an ephemeride living its day of life in the shadow of the largest Egyptian pyramid, yet what would be the deepest difference between Trilema and that pyramid ? Not density, nor size, nor duration in time nor anything like that, but the one fundamental fact, that while the little insect lives, however shortly, however precariously, the pyramid does not, and never has." -> Caragiale ref spotted!
1906193;1553977201;feedbot;http://billymg.com/2019/03/the-mp-wp-weightloss-program/ << billymg -- The mp-wp weightloss program
1906194;1553978055;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-30#1906118 << a situation billymg is familiar with firsthand. thankfully, i'll soon be seeking asylum in the Lone Star state
1906195;1553978055;a111;Logged on 2019-03-30 05:18 BingoBoingo: Anyways, no people in NY this century
1906196;1553979095;BingoBoingo;In the Forever War facts stumbled upon, apparently John Walker Lindh is set to be released May 23rd.
1906197;1553979384;Mocky;billymg: ok I'll have a look, thx
1906198;1553980171;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905680 << same deal in NY state, very strict for autos, long list of items checked. any one fails then whole inspection fails.
1906199;1553980171;a111;Logged on 2019-03-28 17:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, they have this testing office here, they give you a stamp that the car is up to spect technically, good for 1 year. (good measure too, the tubs these people drove before it... jesus f. even now you see trucks dead in middle of onramp cuz unmaintained engine finally croaked etc)
1906200;1553980373;Mocky;a couple years ago they bumped the penalty for fake sticker up from violation to misdemeanor. and also added it to the auto-plate-scanning-database system in most cop cars so alarm goes off for cop every time a car with expired inspection in the morning database goes past.
1906201;1553980457;Mocky;for motorcycles tho, they check lights and tires only. NC is not strict like NY, more like how asciilifeform describes.
1906202;1553980606;BingoBoingo;I never had to get a car inspected in my corner of old country. All registered just outside the mandatory inspection zone.
1906203;1553980763;Mocky;im surprised eu beat the us to the auto-speed-nag punch actually
1906204;1553980824;BingoBoingo;Well, with Brexit looking more like something the EU is going to end up imposing on Britain than anything Britain is going to do... EU is getting bold.
1906205;1553980863;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/03/us-faces-rising-sex-inequality-with-14-of-us-men-not-getting-any-during-2018/ << Qntra -- US Faces Rising Sex Inequality With 1/4 Of US Men Not Getting Any During 2018
1906206;1553992943;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, ayup!
1906207;1553993023;mircea_popescu;https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/C%C3%A2teva_p%C4%83reri << whole item ; quite worth a read.
1906208;1553993945;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-30#1906196 << is this from that one time when the usg killed like 500 random afghanis it had kidnapped and then pretended like fifty or so survived in order to give "deep cover" to various agents ?
1906209;1553993945;a111;Logged on 2019-03-30 20:51 BingoBoingo: In the Forever War facts stumbled upon, apparently John Walker Lindh is set to be released May 23rd.
1906210;1553993996;mircea_popescu;"oh, no, this totally isn't dork mcdorkenson, he's rakiim al fuckwit, who magically survived the concentration camp at quala-janqui, believe"
1906211;1553994432;BingoBoingo;I do believe so
1906212;1553994472;BingoBoingo;Being released with credit for good behavior in the "communications management unit" at Terra Haute too!
1906213;1553998004;mircea_popescu;lmao
1906214;1554000933;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/nYl2m << subj
1906215;1554001265;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/03/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-september-and-october-1715-part-iv/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of September and October, 1715 - Part IV.
1906216;1554001541;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906208 << it was, with 500kg bombs dropped on prison fulla hogtied d00ds , no less
1906217;1554001541;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 00:59 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-30#1906196 << is this from that one time when the usg killed like 500 random afghanis it had kidnapped and then pretended like fifty or so survived in order to give "deep cover" to various agents ?
1906218;1554001843;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-30#1906193 << interestingly, at 139.2 kloc , still 1 of the heaviest proggies in civilized use; vs, e.g., trb ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-29#1876053 ) ; but lighter than koch gpg ( if minus autoconf, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680705 ) or linux kern.
1906219;1554001843;a111;Logged on 2019-03-30 20:20 feedbot: http://billymg.com/2019/03/the-mp-wp-weightloss-program/ << billymg -- The mp-wp weightloss program
1906220;1554001843;a111;Logged on 2018-11-29 19:10 asciilifeform: ( for comparison: e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680705 ; or, current trb is ~22k loc, ~not~ incl. the dep balls )
1906221;1554001843;a111;Logged on 2017-07-08 03:49 asciilifeform: i just counted gpg 1.4.10 : 156,436 loc -- and that ain't counting the autoconf liquishit, or the libs it pulls in
1906222;1554006458;BingoBoingo;In other updates, cuntoo takes less than 12 hours to compile on new rig. Gotta fuck the kernel config and details to get it to boot.
1906223;1554007915;hanbot;!!v F4299AB975CD5A2F1633C3B255F4A435303BE8909C3FBA32B13EAF7617B7EA5C
1906224;1554007916;deedbot;hanbot rated hanbot-abroad 1 << A true, certified hanbot-lite.
1906225;1554010779;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, it's altogether dubious mp-wp is program, or really anything other than an overgrown script.
1906226;1554010830;mircea_popescu;php after all scripting lang not systems lang.
1906227;1554047110;billymg;it is deeply satisfying work ripping out the cruft in that thing
1906228;1554047222;billymg;but i know i'll have to pause on that to put together a test suite (which should actually be a great way of identifying what needs to *remain*)
1906229;1554047436;billymg;and will provide more confidence while mass deleting
1906230;1554047674;Mocky;I've been building my wp import file out of my feed template. It's basically rss with additional wp tags. I just discovered the reason why only the last post in the file has been getting imported: wp import can't handle </item><item> without whitespace between.
1906231;1554047704;Mocky;the rss import can handle it, but that can't import post tags
1906232;1554048291;BingoBoingo;In other discoveries: http://www.contravex.com/2019/03/30/the-21st-century-emergency-kit-fg-inside/ "But that’s not all! In addition to being super sensible and oh so au courant, FG INSIDE doubles (triples?) as an icon of industrial design. Like the Eames Lounge or the iPod before it, its pared-down simplicity and resolute transparency make it a work of artistic expression reflective of, and integral to, our present day and age. USD
1906233;1554048291;BingoBoingo;$ 4,999 (+$50 S&H)ix and this Limited Edition Collector’s Survival Kit could be yours!:
1906234;1554049208;billymg;BingoBoingo: i do kind of like the aesthetic, but would like it more if the board was mounted and the case had port cutouts, etc., so that it could be used in that form
1906235;1554049252;billymg;seems kind of lazy/cynical given the >10x markup (or perhaps an april fools joke?)
1906236;1554049271;BingoBoingo;billymg: The guy used to hang around here until the children came and ate his time.
1906237;1554049293;billymg;yeah, i knew as much from the logs
1906238;1554049331;billymg;might have missed the part about having kids though
1906239;1554049855;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol! notice what's in the last pic in link
1906240;1554049882;mircea_popescu;billymg, quite.
1906241;1554049967;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, he's got your X-ray pictures printed up
1906242;1554050024;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: to add extra lulz, without any 'kiss and tell' , i.e. per d00d's own www -- http://www.contravex.com/2017/08/10/unboxing-and-set-up-of-nosuchlabs-fuckgoats-on-macos-openbsd-linux/ -- seems like we sold him only 2... so he went and picked up 3 moar, so that he could this
1906243;1554050060;mircea_popescu;pretty lulzy.
1906244;1554050084;BingoBoingo;I wouldn't be surprised if he picked up more when the decision to hold off on more productions runs came down
1906245;1554050095;asciilifeform;chukcha shaman found radio.
1906246;1554050113;mircea_popescu;(the above quite was re "identify what needs to remain" comment. i guess i gotta get more disciplined with the linerefs.
1906247;1554050206;asciilifeform;esp. chukchaistic treatment of the xray ( wat exactly does xray of spare fg on asciilifeform's desk, tell buyer re pete_d's ? )
1906248;1554050227;mircea_popescu;i expect it's an aesthetic consideration.
1906249;1554050232;asciilifeform;iguess
1906250;1554050247;asciilifeform;and/or , as suggested upstack, early april1
1906251;1554050248;mircea_popescu;what does image of far away greek emperor tell bulgarian ? well... that the coin's made of gold.
1906252;1554050348;asciilifeform;i wouldn't even be surprised if he finally sells 1
1906253;1554050372;asciilifeform;( d00d hangs out with folx who pay weight in gold for ??? rarities )
1906254;1554050419;asciilifeform;iirc danielpbarron sold at least 1 for 700+ orcbux somewhere
1906255;1554050471;mircea_popescu;in principle that's what utter failure to commercialize'd look like : item sells by the unit at 100x mark-up rather than by the barge at 1% mark-up.
1906256;1554050496;asciilifeform;the mindboggling thing is that afaik no one yet 'fuck you all, i'ma make own.' asciilifeform made this deliberately as simple as could be .
1906257;1554050534;mircea_popescu;can;t imagine why you'd think it;s even remarkable.\
1906258;1554050630;asciilifeform;dunno, imagined that somewhere someone 1) has hands growing from torso, not arse 2) wants rng 3) likes to blog re builds
1906259;1554050640;asciilifeform;evidently nope
1906260;1554050658;mircea_popescu;this is like wondering how come nobody on wikipedia went "fuck you all, ima write my own play".
1906261;1554050665;mircea_popescu;what, seriously, othello 2 ?
1906262;1554050726;asciilifeform;there was some fella who in 2000s 'fuck , i'm not paying 100k to hitachi, i'ma build own atomic force microscope' but admittedly was long time ago.
1906263;1554050846;mircea_popescu;consider the actual datapoints the actual flow of history offers us (quite in the vein of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-30#1906143 vein) : datapoint a) is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-03#1651459 ; datapoint b) is http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906233
1906264;1554050846;a111;Logged on 2019-03-30 05:43 mircea_popescu: billymg, some dood bought it in bankruptcy proceedings last year. "23 million '''''''''visitors''''''''' " commanded ~$1.5mn. contrasting with http://trilema.com/2011/evaluari-rationale-in-ro/#comment-86130 one can peg intervening inflation at 300% over seven years.
1906265;1554050846;a111;Logged on 2017-05-03 20:04 mircea_popescu: dude, just call. nevermind the "questions" and rest of the crap. spend 1/10 of the time you frittered away already "on" this to call, write up your report, "i, pete d, aspiring to one day lordship, spent 8 hours today cold calling. i managed a total of 76 calls, which would get me fired from the average call center but hey, i'm new. these 76 calls went to so and so, here's the script, here's why i ammended it and when, here's
1906266;1554050846;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 16:04 BingoBoingo: $ 4,999 (+$50 S&H)ix and this Limited Edition Collector’s Survival Kit could be yours!:
1906267;1554050893;mircea_popescu;the dood's self-valuation is there very much transparent : he wants to do a quarter hour of unskilled work ; and he wants to be paid 5k for it, ie about a week and a half's worth of skilled work.
1906268;1554050907;billymg;mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/pqQG2/?raw=true << for wp testing
1906269;1554050922;mircea_popescu;that's the leverage involved : for 1% or so of being a salesman, fellow would like 10`000% or so of being the corporation's president.
1906270;1554050970;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: even funnier -- d00d dun actually need that 5k for anyffin, he inherited bargefull of moola at some pt in '14-15 , collects 'rolexes' etc. he's doin' it to (per tlp) 'Feel Like a Trader'(tm)
1906271;1554050990;mircea_popescu;which very much leads straight into the whole http://trilema.com/2015/that-unpleasant-moment-when-principles-you-were-supporting-strictly-because-of-the-principle-of-the-thing-and-pointedly-not-because-of-the-convenient-manner-in-which-they-worked-upon-a-restr/#selection-179.0-191.92
1906272;1554051006;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, mno, this is, genuinely, the self-valuation of labour.
1906273;1554051051;asciilifeform;evidently so
1906274;1554051059;mircea_popescu;and it just as genuinely explains for your benefit why "nobody made anything". for someone to have done 100% of the work of the competent sunkworks engineer, that someone'd have expected to be paid 10`000`000% the whole earth.
1906275;1554051092;mircea_popescu;as ~evidently enough there's not 10k earths around, but one, and as just as evidently russia ain't going along with ustarded "valuations", so even "Whole earth" is too high to reach, well... fellow "can't motivate himself"
1906276;1554051116;mircea_popescu;or, in his own words, http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/
1906277;1554051117;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: admittedly 'make own' using the published schem aint quite same thing as 'do 100% of the orig work'
1906278;1554051143;mircea_popescu;competent skunkwork engineer is caen-classified as "make own using published scheme"
1906279;1554051152;mircea_popescu;"do 100% of orig work" is not in caen code.
1906280;1554051166;asciilifeform;wat's a 'caen' ?
1906281;1554051202;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform, http://coduricaen.info/
1906282;1554051219;asciilifeform;lol!!
1906283;1554051230;*;asciilifeform sadly familiar with the usg equiv. of ^
1906284;1554051235;mircea_popescu;orcish idea, "let's classify human activity" "you mean robot activity ?" "shush"
1906285;1554051246;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888229 <<
1906286;1554051246;a111;Logged on 2019-01-18 17:38 asciilifeform: the bureaucracy 'codes' are sumthingelse... there was a time when asciilifeform slaved in a usg army research thing, and their 'job codes' were written in 1960s, there was no 'programmer'. so ended up 'chemist'.
1906287;1554051309;asciilifeform;^ is a bottomless well of lulz. for instance, didjaknow, usg does not today and has never purchased 'computer'. it buys 'automated data processors'
1906288;1554051315;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906236 -> I'd say the "kids ate my time" is the convenient excuse as it's not like he has 100, nor like he is even main carer or anything; just sayin'.
1906289;1554051315;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 16:21 BingoBoingo: billymg: The guy used to hang around here until the children came and ate his time.
1906290;1554051389;asciilifeform;i oughta get pete to buy my bucket of aluminum swarf from machine shop bucket, coupla wks ago i filled it up again. maybe he can sell also for 5k..
1906291;1554051396;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, i'd rather suspect it's "ate his motivation", as in "i already gave at the office".
1906292;1554051398;diana_coman;re fg inside, I suppose that's the "those guys don't know how to sell" - gotta make it a collectable, there's no use and no purpose other than it's cool; but mircea_popescu's explanation of self-valuation seems to me to explain it all much better really.
1906293;1554051407;*;asciilifeform brb:teatime
1906294;1554051417;mircea_popescu;"isn't it enough that i'm getting real returns on THIS ONE THING ? it should be. all the rest... imaginary!"
1906295;1554051422;diana_coman;mircea_popescu: wtf give exactly?
1906296;1554051466;mircea_popescu;he had kids. this means (in insane esltard worldview) that he condescended to receive merely 100% (if that!!!) of the return for 100% of the work (and more!!!!).
1906297;1554051481;mircea_popescu;this is, you must agree, a significant discount from his usual 10`000% of the return for 0.01% of the work.
1906298;1554051492;mircea_popescu;thus therefore -- since he's given the discount ONCE -- what more you want ?
1906299;1554051512;diana_coman;ah, uhm; does that mean he didn't have sex before because return would be < 100%  ?
1906300;1554051516;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry, i misspoke. not "what more you want" but "nobody could say there'd be more wanted", exactly in g. costanza's terms, "she can'tr say i;m not comfortable".
1906301;1554051530;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, ah no, sex dun enter into it.
1906302;1554051567;diana_coman;I suspect the whole thing is more twisted than planeshift's code already.
1906303;1554051589;mircea_popescu;well, it'd have to be.
1906304;1554051595;mircea_popescu;how else could ps code be had ?
1906305;1554051600;diana_coman;ahahah, quite.
1906306;1554051643;diana_coman;but yes, on second pass I think I can see it: that's his sweat there, "having kids", the rest has to compensate !!
1906307;1554051738;mircea_popescu;quite.
1906308;1554051761;mircea_popescu;it's how mom&dad negotiations work, neh ? "ok, ima go to college (sorta) but you get new car".
1906309;1554051827;*;diana_coman would get the kid a toy car since ~= "college" anyway.
1906310;1554051854;mircea_popescu;diana_coman, would make a terrible mother!
1906311;1554051883;diana_coman;absolutely!
1906312;1554051953;mircea_popescu;amusingly, much in the vein of http://trilema.com/2019/the-saddest-thing-in-the-world/#selection-199.1-199.37 -- romanian "teribil" has none of the negative connotations of "terrible".
1906313;1554051981;mircea_popescu;it ~merely~ denotes something capable of striking terror. at which point yes, esltard will readily observe "same with terrible", and inquire interiorily "how could this be, inspire terror and not be terrible, aka bad ?!?!"
1906314;1554052009;mircea_popescu;yet "o mama teribila" is rather superlative in the original lang.
1906315;1554052135;mircea_popescu;this identification of "any feeling at all" with "bad" in the mental collective is why bush needn't cary any responsability for his empire's failure in the middle east (i don't mean, "his empire failing to achieve something or the other in that locale", i mean "the empire failing, aka ending, at that place", much like if i say "clinton's aneurism at 15th chelsea street" i mean the dork fell in the street, not that the stre
1906316;1554052135;mircea_popescu;et something or the other)
1906317;1554052748;mircea_popescu;billymg, mind re-doing for http://wot.deedbot.org/208FE107E970F53262C4951232992F13CFA6CD06.asc thx
1906318;1554053927;billymg;mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/bE2Io/?raw=true
1906319;1554054019;mircea_popescu;ty!
1906320;1554054164;mircea_popescu;billymg, http://billymg.com/wp-admin 404's. allow 186.* for a moment ?
1906321;1554054487;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906292 << diana_coman (iirc is in the l0gz, somewhere briefly) 1 time i dug up what turned out to be an attempt by pete_d to market fg -- his notion was 'first, gotta rename! it'
1906322;1554054487;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 16:56 diana_coman: re fg inside, I suppose that's the "those guys don't know how to sell" - gotta make it a collectable, there's no use and no purpose other than it's cool; but mircea_popescu's explanation of self-valuation seems to me to explain it all much better really.
1906323;1554054509;mircea_popescu;seems a common enough reaction.
1906324;1554054512;asciilifeform;was such 'success' that he never bothered to mention it here
1906325;1554054538;mircea_popescu;in fairness, common all the way to biology : before cell deems it can use virus, the latter first has to be de-capsid-ized.
1906326;1554054586;mircea_popescu;was pretty lulzy coda of the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-30#1906182 lulz : perhaps measles, also, should protest "all these cells using my genetic code!!!"
1906327;1554054586;a111;Logged on 2019-03-30 17:10 asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/#comment-128755 << mega-likbez, btw, imho belongs in the log
1906328;1554054590;asciilifeform;man is supposedly moar clever than amoeba...
1906329;1554054597;mircea_popescu;who supposes ?
1906330;1554054607;asciilifeform;can only speak for self, asciilifeform previously supposed.
1906331;1554054895;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-31#1906312 << same afaik in most west eurolangs, e.g. famous french sub 'le terrible'
1906332;1554054895;a111;Logged on 2019-03-31 17:05 mircea_popescu: amusingly, much in the vein of http://trilema.com/2019/the-saddest-thing-in-the-world/#selection-199.1-199.37 -- romanian "teribil" has none of the negative connotations of "terrible".
1906333;1554056508;billymg;mircea_popescu: whoops, sorry. try now
1906334;1554057960;billymg;actually, 2x whoops, just locked myself out temporarily -- should be good now
1906335;1554058444;mircea_popescu;billymg, submitterd for review, but long story short you don't have img upload anymore that i can find ?
1906336;1554058607;billymg;hmm, i definitely tested that aspect
1906337;1554058681;billymg;in the post edit screen, do you see an "upload/insert" label above the editing box?
1906338;1554058703;billymg;i wonder if this is a limitation of "contributor" role
1906339;1554058725;billymg;ah, yes
1906340;1554058727;billymg;one sec
1906341;1554058752;asciilifeform;imho 'roles' is yet-another wpism that could be cut w/ 0 tears
1906342;1554058758;billymg;updated, see if that works for you now
1906343;1554058817;diana_coman;fwiw I don't see any use for "roles" either
1906344;1554058839;asciilifeform;iirc theoretically it was for 'multi-author' blog. but who actually uses this.
1906345;1554058895;billymg;yeah, they have roles such as "contributor", "author", "editor"
1906346;1554058943;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> iirc theoretically it was for 'multi-author' blog. but who actually uses this. << Until cazalla retired, Qntra
1906347;1554058961;diana_coman;multiple authors is one thing aka multiple users; multiple roles though is a different thing
1906348;1554058992;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: afaik would've just as readily worked with simply you an' him having logins, no 'roles' knobs
1906349;1554059025;asciilifeform;'roles' is as i see it simply the typical usgistic 'pissing section in swimming pool' pretense
1906350;1554059032;BingoBoingo;Sure.
1906351;1554059413;mircea_popescu;billymg, nope
1906352;1554059438;mircea_popescu;holy shit, now it's here.
1906353;1554059444;mircea_popescu;wtf, this is some primo shenanigans
1906354;1554059581;mircea_popescu;billymg, now "Unable to create directory /www/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/03. Is its parent directory writable by the server?"
1906355;1554059602;billymg;ah, issue with my server config
1906356;1554059607;billymg;ran into that when testing locally as well
1906357;1554059625;mircea_popescu;i can see the "forget roles" thing, but i expect this is no cheap or quick move of the scissor.
1906358;1554059643;mircea_popescu;will prolly go away when he sits down to remodel the data model after done with all these obvious library level snips.
1906359;1554059657;mircea_popescu;because yes, item is deeply in need of new data and calling models.
1906360;1554060041;billymg;mircea_popescu: did the necessary chmoding and usermoding, restarted apache, works for me now
1906361;1554060078;billymg;(also saw the same "unable to create directory" error prior to that just now)
1906362;1554060401;mircea_popescu;billymg, : "Size Thumbnail Medium Large Full size (560 × 420)" only permits me the 560x420 upload. ideally should have also a thumbnail or two, you know ? sometimes that works better. i suspect this comes from settings
1906363;1554060521;mircea_popescu;billymg, http://billymg.com/ << also some allignment issues on main blog.
1906364;1554060578;billymg;the alignment issues probably the fault of the theme
1906365;1554060640;mircea_popescu;since you're touchging that, prolly good advice to widen it.
1906366;1554060666;mircea_popescu;if trilema-size (560 px wide) doesn't comfortably fit in your post column, prolly too narrow post column
1906367;1554060670;feedbot;http://billymg.com/2019/03/hurr-durr/ << billymg -- Hurr durr
1906368;1554060733;billymg;definitely, i had planned to write a custom theme at some point, with inputs from the lords, to try and arrive at an "ideal" default theme
1906369;1554060758;mircea_popescu;whatever you decide on, 580 wide, 660 wide, whatever -- then you make thumbnails /4 that, so people can do things lik http://trilema.com/2011/nsfw-gradina-edenului/
1906370;1554060788;billymg;do you know if this was a regression in this patch?
1906371;1554060794;billymg;or something you would like to see
1906372;1554060802;mircea_popescu;"this" ?
1906373;1554060811;billymg;the image thumbnail generation
1906374;1554060815;mircea_popescu;or, the sizes. well, no, i expect this is part of the theme setting. i dunno that it'd work magically
1906375;1554060823;billymg;kk
1906376;1554060843;mircea_popescu;now ~whether~ it can or can not resize images, that'd be part of mp-wp, and i expect it'd work, but your current theme doesn't expose the functionality
1906377;1554060848;mircea_popescu;at least that's my understanding.
1906378;1554060894;billymg;ah, i see
1906379;1554060979;mircea_popescu;as far as experience illuminates, a theme goes like this : a) you must have a header, and a.1 you don't want it animated ; thus i know of nothing better than tcurrent state of the art as shown by trilema : mask-png which goes with the theme, invite user to take some pictures, apply the mask, upload them and have the theme rotate through them by some criteria.
1906380;1554061010;billymg;ok, i see now exactly what you meant by can't select the other sizes while uploading (only original)
1906381;1554061011;mircea_popescu;b) you will need a main column for text on the left, and either one or two service columns on the right. this is the first major decision in theme making : one ? or two ?
1906382;1554061015;billymg;the radio buttons are disabled
1906383;1554061049;billymg;this _may_ be a result of the patch, in which case a regression. will dig in
1906384;1554061051;mircea_popescu;b1. your text column will have to have a fixed size. this is the 2nd, and i suspect last decision you make. too wide, you get horizontal scrolling, and that sucks. too wide, you're reading an electromagnetic beam, which also sucks.
1906385;1554061074;billymg;heh, yup
1906386;1554061082;mircea_popescu;trilema's a little under 640, because trilema was made 10+ years ago. you can take advantage of wider screens, make the read column say 640. or 720, if single utility column.
1906387;1554061102;mircea_popescu;once you got that, the size of pics preset is establshed : one to fit well in column, one to fit two by each other, and one to fit four.
1906388;1554061123;mircea_popescu;b2. the utility columns must include a recent posts, a recent comments, and convenient access to archives.
1906389;1554061190;mircea_popescu;trilema puts articles outside comments inside ands some more trims underneath. but i don't expect this is the only way to go about it -- though perhaps it is best to have "recent x" things up top.
1906390;1554061256;mircea_popescu;c. you absolutely do not want any kind of nesting, comments or otherwise. c1. you do not want to split comment flow on pages. c2. you gotta have usage of various things such as blockquote or li or bold or h commensurate in comments with their use in post. comment should really look like mini-article, visually.
1906391;1554061278;mircea_popescu;that'd be pretty much everything that comes to mind.
1906392;1554061449;billymg;ok, i might capture/reference this in an upcoming post then, along with other potential roadmap items for consideration
1906393;1554061517;billymg;so far main buckets as i see are: 1) new tmsr/repuplican theme, 2) automated tests, 3) kill unnecessary code
1906394;1554061535;billymg;in no particular order, if anything i'd say it's 2, 3, 1
1906395;1554061722;billymg;mircea_popescu: ok for me to lockup the blog again?
1906396;1554062085;billymg;but yeah, the "mp-wp roadmap proposal" post is something i've been meaning to do
1906397;1554062144;mircea_popescu;billymg, yea
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1906400;1554067356;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 1 day, 16 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to snarf ch18, ty
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1906431;1554067410;phf;ffs, sorry about that, i fucked up a paste..
1906432;1554067521;phf;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cSNhS/?raw=true
1906433;1554067893;asciilifeform;phf: got it, thx. the linked piece already in log btw, phf excavated it last yr .
1906434;1554067932;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/03/31/pizarro-isp-march-31st-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP March 31st Update
1906435;1554068079;asciilifeform;phf: the included items appear to be quite useful, also ty .
1906436;1554068792;asciilifeform;phf: pure gold, in fact. mega-find, phf.
1906437;1554069063;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch18_subroutines.kv << loox a++ . also ty phf.