1856255;1538352550;BingoBoingo;Thankfully much of Montevideo fits in head
1856256;1538352590;BingoBoingo;Because the locals are shit at giving directions
1856257;1538352788;mod6;It seems like the BTC-Dev mailing list is still not working properly.  I have posted the September State of Bitcoin Address to my own site in the mean time: http://www.mod6.net/2018/October/1/btcf_address_201809.txt
1856258;1538352847;mod6;I'll be working on the Pizarro report over the next few days.  After which time, I'll start looking into creating a keccak version of the TRB tree.
1856259;1538352874;mod6;After a lot of consideration this weekend, I'm still interested in stepping down as Foundation Co-Chair.
1856260;1538352900;mod6;I will do so formally after the Pizarro report is complete.  We will be needing to find a replacement for myself as Co-Chair.
1856261;1538353405;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=35 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/26/2018
1856262;1538353839;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/qntra-s-qntr-september-2018-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) September 2018 Report
1856263;1538355487;asciilifeform;mod6: i for one will be sad to see end of your tenure as tbf chair -- imho it was as productive as could ever be wished
1856264;1538355584;asciilifeform;meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb.
1856265;1538355672;asciilifeform;( i expect the cure will be a 1liner, once i think of where exactly )
1856266;1538356029;asciilifeform;i wonder whether hanbot is interested in taking up tbf chair .
1856267;1538358402;mats;openstreetmap with predownloaded locality maps on android tablet works well
1856268;1538358419;mats;no need for wifi, gsm
1856269;1538358470;mats;hot off the press https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/30/california-signs-law-to-require-women-on-corporate-boards-.html
1856270;1538359660;mircea_popescu;notbusiness.jpg
1856271;1538364159;mircea_popescu;http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/15/eucrypt-chapter-10-oaep-with-keccak-a-la-tmsr/comment-page-1/#comment-4219 << check out peterl!
1856272;1538364164;mircea_popescu;diana_coman is that getting a patch or what ?
1856273;1538364294;hanbot;asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like?
1856274;1538364387;mircea_popescu;hanbot you ever heard of stanford university ?
1856275;1538364429;hanbot;surely
1856276;1538364480;mircea_popescu;stanford university exists because a rich dood took some money out of his pocket, stuffed it in a bag and wrote "Stanford university" on it.
1856277;1538364503;mircea_popescu;however, it ~actually exists~, today. plenty of people interact with it that might not even have heard of the douche in question or his insufferable drowned son
1856278;1538364507;mircea_popescu;or w/e the fuck happened there.
1856279;1538364534;mircea_popescu;this means, to live. if stanford university today were nothing more than an entry in the rich guy's lawyer's workledger, it'd not live. as it is, it lives.
1856280;1538364672;mircea_popescu;(and, amusingly enough, the founding donation was a whole of a lot less than 10 bitcoin, also.)
1856281;1538364695;hanbot;how much does the "person-ness" of those "people interact(ing) with it" matter, if at all?
1856282;1538364734;mircea_popescu;i have no idea.
1856283;1538364748;hanbot;i mean, is it meant to be a chute-to-l1 or simply doesn't get enough lifeform contact?
1856284;1538364810;mircea_popescu;the stanford douche and his entire fambly, and his entire "business interest" ie life's work long withered away. stanford university still stands.
1856285;1538364836;mircea_popescu;it still "exert an influence on behalf of humanity and welfare" bullshit pantsuit values as we speak.
1856286;1538364845;mircea_popescu;make the foundation undo stanford university, i'll be happy.
1856287;1538364849;mircea_popescu;even past the grave.
1856288;1538364906;hanbot;oh i know how to undo stanford university, ya just walk around campus in a Cal sweatshirt.
1856289;1538364912;mircea_popescu;lol.
1856290;1538364941;mircea_popescu;i don't give a shit how. sponsor a sports team, for all i care. god knows the charter's written openly enough to not get in anyone's way who wants to do things.
1856291;1538364965;mircea_popescu;organize a baby duck marathon competition and server the winner for a gala dinner. whatever it is, just make it stick.
1856292;1538365210;hanbot;fwiw i don't doubt tbf as-is lacks legendary promise. i can also see argument for pushing as hard as its resources allow. i wonder: does the republic actually give two shits about e.g. sports teams? how much of this "means to an end" sorta thing is acceptable? or is it outright looked for?
1856293;1538365235;mircea_popescu;i dunno!
1856294;1538365308;mircea_popescu;do pantsuit actually give two shits about education establishments ? eminently not, they're the leading obscurantists of all time.
1856295;1538365398;mircea_popescu;the difference between gimmicks is that some work and some don't ; nobody calls the stanford gimmick by its name for the exact same reason "treason never prospers". but the whole "enlightenment" pantsuit gambit, from the original d'alembert to the present day, was nothing but a gimmick.
1856296;1538365510;hanbot;okay, but are gimmicks that work therefore good?
1856297;1538365519;mircea_popescu;gimmicks are therefore gimmicks.
1856298;1538365583;mircea_popescu;come up with some that grow rather than wither.
1856299;1538365789;hanbot;inasmuch as tbf clearly has a soul i'd think being true to that trumps the potential growth offered by a given gimmick. otherwise why isn't it for instance spreading virii?
1856300;1538365812;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856273 << i dunno who's unsatisfied, but it aint me, i'd call another 4y exactly like prev 4y, a win
1856301;1538365812;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 03:24 hanbot: asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like?
1856302;1538365817;mircea_popescu;i dunno, why isn't it spreading virii ?
1856303;1538365826;mircea_popescu;spread some fucking virii. do somethbing rather than not do something.
1856304;1538365874;hanbot;asciilifeform i'm not unsatisfied either. speaking merely to the recent questioning of tbf's purpose/existence/etc in logs.
1856305;1538365892;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what'd that do, exactly ? give moar derps behind nat with ~useless noad?
1856306;1538365927;mircea_popescu;doing things (as opposed to not doing things) permits one to compare results (as opposed to imagine comparisons of imagined results).
1856307;1538365940;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: could've sworn we had the 'infect with trb' thread ..
1856308;1538365950;mircea_popescu;i did not say "infect with trb".
1856309;1538365969;asciilifeform;then i have nfi what specifically is meant re virii
1856310;1538365977;mircea_popescu;me either. her term, she may define it.
1856311;1538365992;mircea_popescu;what i said in response uses the black box as she might define it, irrespective.
1856312;1538366009;asciilifeform;aa, a this
1856313;1538366014;asciilifeform;aite..
1856314;1538366158;hanbot;mircea_popescu i grasp principle of something > nothing, but i'd hate to lose sight of the spirit in which tbf was founded for the sake of notoriety/sticking power alone. i'd think this is obvious and i'm by now belaboring the point...
1856315;1538366173;mircea_popescu;gotta have both. that's the fucking point.
1856316;1538366203;mircea_popescu;the man dwelling in an empty house saying "hey, at least my furniture's flawless" is no-one's hero.
1856317;1538366219;mircea_popescu;conversely, the bower bird, no-one's hero either.
1856318;1538366386;hanbot;sure. well, i'd want a day or two to sit with the charter & selected logs before committing, if the involved parties'll have me.
1856319;1538366407;mircea_popescu;and even if they won't, what harm can come of sitting with charter an' logs.
1856320;1538366435;hanbot;mhm!
1856321;1538366483;BingoBoingo;I for one support baby duck memes
1856322;1538366517;asciilifeform;it's a q for the current board. i suggested to ask hanbot because hanbot is known as a very skilled organizational hand, and not currently running anyffing ( aside from, possibly, mircea_popescu's janissary corps )
1856323;1538367381;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856280 << to put specifics to this, the original endowment was set at $5mn during meeting with harvard president (who came up with the speciffic gimmick too, stanfords were thinking of "A combined museum-lecture hall" and such nonsense). 1885 us gdp was something like 60bn, and the us was barely 1% of the world at the time. meanwhile 10 btc is 1/1.6mn of monetary mass or somesuch.
1856324;1538367381;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 03:31 mircea_popescu: (and, amusingly enough, the founding donation was a whole of a lot less than 10 bitcoin, also.)
1856325;1538367462;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in random : https://www.thebalance.com/trump-s-tax-plan-how-it-affects-you-4113968
1856326;1538367729;esthlos;trinque: wrt the keccak vtron, see http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YWfb5/?raw=true . I haven't managed to get asdf working with ccl, though the sbcl version builds and appears to work. Note that the thing will barf on non-keccak vpatches. Write-up will come in the next few days. I also have some log catch-up to do: will read the context and repond to your other question soon.
1856327;1538367862;trinque;esthlos: where's asdf come in?
1856328;1538368183;deedbot;http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vpy-updated-for-vtools/ << BARKS IN THE WIND - v.py updated for vtools
1856329;1538368252;phf;heh, it's the midnight special, night of v double feature
1856330;1538368356;phf;asciilifeform: ^
1856331;1538368400;mircea_popescu;kek!
1856332;1538368476;mircea_popescu;in other random lulz : the panic of 1857 was at least in part generated by a ship carrying 14 tons of gold towards new york sinking in a hurricane (took a whole day to sink, boiler slowly died leaving them without power, quite the adventure, 500 people died, the captain was kinda cool etc). some people from ohio found it ("bayesian search!!!") in the 80s.
1856333;1538368528;trinque;hory shit, it's raining vtrons.
1856334;1538368537;mircea_popescu;every single insurance company in the world found itself genealogically related to insurers who made payments in the 1800s, resulting in a legal battle settled sometime in the 90s, ~90% award to the finding crew. the leader of which went into hiding soon thereafter, in the middle of various legal wranglings with his backers and crew.
1856335;1538368572;mircea_popescu;was found (along with "assistant" allison) and "extradited" to ohio to provide explanations in 2015. afaik no explanations yet -- but it turns out bayesian-things great way to bankruptcy.
1856336;1538368770;mircea_popescu;(nfi why they don't credit laplace -- other than protestant-ish ineptitude. presbyterians code!!!).
1856337;1538368829;mircea_popescu;esthlos phf sweet!
1856338;1538382117;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856272 -> it is
1856339;1538382117;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 03:22 mircea_popescu: diana_coman is that getting a patch or what ?
1856340;1538382124;mircea_popescu;cool
1856341;1538382614;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1856174 -> I suppose new world hostels might be better than old world ones, esp italian ones (though I'll grant that they were best for meeting people, yes)
1856342;1538382614;a111;Logged on 2018-09-30 20:54 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1856041 << me (&chet) stopped overnight into one such item, on the mexico-guatemala border. endless halls of clean but modest beds, dozen or so to the room. place could've prolly quartered a whole regiment, but not the right agricultural moment so we were alone in the whole thing. it was pretty eerie anyways.
1856343;1538382650;mircea_popescu;this wasn't a hostel. it literally was a migrant worker flophouse.
1856344;1538383451;diana_coman;ah, that makes more sense
1856345;1538384679;diana_coman;phf, please add the fix patch to eucrypt http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-391.0-399.38
1856346;1538384710;diana_coman;I mean: please "snarf" as per existing term of art
1856347;1538385928;diana_coman;ave1, you forgot to change manifest file for your zfp_4_assert.vpatch? (i.e. it's missing from the list in manifest)
1856348;1538390990;ave1;diana_coman, thanks! yes I see and I did forget
1856349;1538394685;esthlos;trinque: asdf is used to join the pieces together (keccak, gpg, etc.) for use by the vtron proper. I tried to build the vtron modularly, and my understanding is that asdf is the standard for handling modules in common lisp. is there a better way to do package management in cl?
1856350;1538401794;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856328 << phf, this is neato ! i'ma try it today.
1856351;1538401794;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 04:29 deedbot: http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vpy-updated-for-vtools/ << BARKS IN THE WIND - v.py updated for vtools
1856352;1538401844;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf http://btcbase.org/patches/v99#L36 is not 'bug' in the usual sense of the word, but imho oughta be fixed in next rev
1856353;1538401884;asciilifeform;hrm, bot dead..?
1856354;1538401935;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: dhl sent me a 'crate delivery today, plz be there to sign' in re your thing
1856355;1538402251;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264
1856356;1538402251;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 00:59 asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb.
1856357;1538402298;asciilifeform;currently ~100blox behind highest known height.
1856358;1538402330;asciilifeform;( after 'aggression' i find that this condition lasts a day or 2, max, but was quite curious re how it is able to come about to begin with. )
1856359;1538402521;asciilifeform;i'm pretty curious why a trb node is able to answer pfrom->PushGetBlocks(pindexBest, uint256(0)); with ANYTHING other than the immediately-missing next block, when it is known to have it.
1856360;1538402576;asciilifeform;then again there is the simpler explanation : that it only gets asked on connect, and our connectivity is good enuff that this happens rarely.
1856361;1538402602;asciilifeform;at some point i'ma try ben_vulpes's 'moar aggress' variant, which cures this.
1856362;1538402690;asciilifeform;and yea it's http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1362 that trb (and for that matter heathens, but fuck'em) doesn't respond to sanely.
1856363;1538402892;asciilifeform;incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
1856364;1538402918;asciilifeform;dug through log, but not found answ yet
1856365;1538402962;asciilifeform;imho oughta exist at the very least as optional jumper.
1856366;1538402980;*;asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to
1856367;1538403273;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856349 << right nao it's asdf, yes. but hopefully soon asdf can be replaced by your vtron-in-cl !
1856368;1538403273;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 11:51 esthlos: trinque: asdf is used to join the pieces together (keccak, gpg, etc.) for use by the vtron proper. I tried to build the vtron modularly, and my understanding is that asdf is the standard for handling modules in common lisp. is there a better way to do package management in cl?
1856369;1538403287;asciilifeform;~that~ is the Right Thing for cl packagetronics.
1856370;1538403346;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856334 << ianal, but aint that the ~whole point of 'international maritime law' ? where iirc once insurance pays, the sunken cargo turns into 'buried treasure' and belongs to whoever lifts it, no questions asked ?
1856371;1538403346;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 04:35 mircea_popescu: every single insurance company in the world found itself genealogically related to insurers who made payments in the 1800s, resulting in a legal battle settled sometime in the 90s, ~90% award to the finding crew. the leader of which went into hiding soon thereafter, in the middle of various legal wranglings with his backers and crew.
1856372;1538403418;asciilifeform;( i.e. i dun recall spain defending any claims to the contents of sunken 17th c. galleons that usa regularly picked up in '70s-'80s )
1856373;1538403599;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856296 << i gotta admit that i dun see point in 'growth for growth's sake'. there was already prb 'foundation' for ~that~. tbf is for maintaining & improving (constructively! there's plenty of actual ills to cure, that dun reduce to 'not enuff heathen notoriety' ) trb.
1856374;1538403599;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 03:45 hanbot: okay, but are gimmicks that work therefore good?
1856375;1538403723;asciilifeform;i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading
1856376;1538403750;asciilifeform;( and imho all of the people qualified to work on trbi, are already here, they dun need to see duck races to be persuaded to come... )
1856377;1538403768;diana_coman;asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb
1856378;1538403793;asciilifeform;diana_coman: right, pretty much all of the early vtronics work happened on tbf ml
1856379;1538403814;diana_coman;yes but further afield - not even focused on *code*
1856380;1538403820;asciilifeform;and the orig 'rotor', i baked for tbf, and from it we have the musl thing, etc
1856381;1538403834;asciilifeform;diana_coman: that's uncharted territory..
1856382;1538403848;diana_coman;sure it is, but that's more of the point from what I see
1856383;1538403871;asciilifeform;i suppose. simply can't picture yet , what might fit under this .
1856384;1538403889;diana_coman;i.e. tbf going into uncharted territory and thriving
1856385;1538403901;asciilifeform;errything done to date, related to trb at least tangentially.
1856386;1538403904;asciilifeform;which imho was proper.
1856387;1538403954;diana_coman;I think that's precisely what the chairs need to figure out: "what might fit under this " and be useful, ofc
1856388;1538404004;asciilifeform;way i see it, there's plenty of sharp edges left on good old trb, and any new work ought not to subtract from the very real remaining work of smoothing'em out.
1856389;1538404024;diana_coman;I don't follow your reasoning there
1856390;1538404029;asciilifeform;it is very much a question for the board, tho.
1856391;1538404048;diana_coman;i.e. what does one have to do with the other? what, hanbot should now start working on trb if she becomes chair?
1856392;1538404107;asciilifeform;way i see it, if hanbot takes over mod6's duties, then oughta at least carry on what he was doing ( i.e. maintenance of the flagship tree, testing of candidate patches )
1856393;1538404112;asciilifeform;and anyffing on top of that, is bonus
1856394;1538404128;diana_coman;I agree that there is plenty of work to be done on trb, sure; but I don't see the subtraction thing
1856395;1538404143;asciilifeform;it's a risk, not a 'certain doom'
1856396;1538404195;asciilifeform;my contention was simply that oddball extensions of the mission ought not to subtract from the traditional mission, is all.
1856397;1538404292;asciilifeform;fwiw i see my own work on trb, to date, as a ~defensive~ affair, i.e. to make whatever fixes req'd to keep the thing working precisely as it worked in 2009, in the face of the very real and continuing network rot / 9000 forms of active attack from heathendom to date
1856398;1538404377;asciilifeform;as i observed just today and on 9000 occasions, even the simple thing of 'why can a trb node be 100 blox behind a fellow trb peer' is not yet licked
1856399;1538404378;diana_coman;I don't see that related to one specific chair, I guess; i.e. I don't even see a problem if mod6 wants to continue testing the patches and maintaining the tree even if he is not trb chair (not that he has to continue, but neither does he have to pass the job on if he is not chair anymore)
1856400;1538404415;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i dun particularly care who in l1 does it, for so long as it keeps being done.
1856401;1538404439;asciilifeform;i suppose the fundamental headache is that the charter never explicitly specified that the chair is who does.
1856402;1538404441;diana_coman;so then that, fine; not to do with trb though per se, cool
1856403;1538404454;diana_coman;ugh, tbf*
1856404;1538404536;asciilifeform;at the risk of 'bureaucratism', i'd suggest to mod6 & ben_vulpes to amend charter to explicitly make clear the duties of the chair, prior to swapping chairs. but would be curious to see what mircea_popescu thinks.
1856405;1538404593;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Recieved a ping as well. Will update when in hand
1856406;1538404599;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo
1856407;1538404886;asciilifeform;strictly from asciilifeform's pov, tbf is a (to date, imho very successful) ~conservative~ institution, rather like (pre-20th c) vatican.
1856408;1538404913;asciilifeform;it ~preserves~ a valuable and continuously-attacked item.
1856409;1538405025;mircea_popescu;there's no way to do that though.
1856410;1538405046;asciilifeform;doesn't excuse anybody from trying and dying on the embrasures imho.
1856411;1538405067;mircea_popescu;but how would you go about defining what the chair's job is ?
1856412;1538405075;asciilifeform;'what mod6 has been doing'
1856413;1538405083;mircea_popescu;i mean, it's ok to ask things of people. even difficult things. but can you ask the impossible ?
1856414;1538405134;asciilifeform;i'm sympathetic to the scandinavian view -- yes, world will perish in fire and ice, nothing is 4evah, etc. but doesn't excuse surrender.
1856415;1538405153;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall the thread with the physicists.
1856416;1538405154;mircea_popescu;but how's he, or anyone, to say the words that translate "what the chair's job is".
1856417;1538405163;mircea_popescu;which one lol.
1856418;1538405185;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 << this one, i think
1856419;1538405185;a111;Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
1856420;1538405201;mircea_popescu;so ok, i'll bite. what is "the job of pysicist" ?
1856421;1538405210;asciilifeform;there's all kindsa people whose entirely legit duty is to attempt, continuously, the possibly-impossible.
1856422;1538405228;mircea_popescu;that part is not under discussion. sure.
1856423;1538405247;mircea_popescu;is it your job to tell me "the chapter titles of the universal and permanent book on physics" ?
1856424;1538405255;asciilifeform;physicist, who ~must~ look for a simpler equation that in fact may not exist; surgeon who must operate on the possibly-hopeless pre-corpse; detective, who must look for a robber who for all he knows maybe teleported; etc
1856425;1538405335;asciilifeform;and we also know what failure looks like.
1856426;1538405381;mircea_popescu;i think maybe we're not talking together.
1856427;1538405383;asciilifeform;recall the thread where mircea_popescu observed 'y'know those 'hard' murder cases, where detective sits an' thinks, well guess what , in new york they no longer do that, either obvious suspect or they shelve it nao'
1856428;1538405407;mircea_popescu;yes.
1856429;1538405416;asciilifeform;physics, imho, has failed, i.e. accepted eternally snowballing complexity liquishit in place of unifications ( 9000 threads.. )
1856430;1538405468;mircea_popescu;ok...
1856431;1538405507;asciilifeform;so to return to orig q , imho 'job of physicist' is 1st, and above all, to work so that 'physics' ~fits in head~ and thereby remains a legitimate item.
1856432;1538405521;asciilifeform;even if this turns out to be impossible.
1856433;1538405529;mircea_popescu;it seems to me you're essentially saying "hey chairs, in recognition of how you've mostly failed to organize an experimental physics laboratory over half a decade, how about you produce a unified world theory on your way out".
1856434;1538405559;mircea_popescu;it seems to me if the latter were even vaguely approachable, the former'd have been impressively developed already.
1856435;1538405569;asciilifeform;i'ma agree that 'delineate it in contract' is not solution.
1856436;1538405590;mircea_popescu;nor sane expectation.
1856437;1538405597;asciilifeform;was simply curious re whether the other participants (incl. new ones, potentially hanbot) see the thing through same lens as asciilifeform , or not.
1856438;1538405611;mircea_popescu;it may shock "the community" of not-bdsm to find that i... DONT have "Slavery contracts" either.
1856439;1538405620;mircea_popescu;cuz how the fuck.
1856440;1538405635;asciilifeform;no i get this.
1856441;1538405810;asciilifeform;words, obv., are not alive, cannot move people who do not want to be moved.
1856442;1538405827;asciilifeform;( iirc mircea_popescu had an article re 'only those are alive, whom words can move' )
1856443;1538405880;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1856444;1538405989;mircea_popescu;i think the problems people in general encounter in conceptualizing contracts come from a very misfortunate but clearly delineated source, so let me belabour the matter to understand each other for all time.
1856445;1538406064;mircea_popescu;a) the anti-humanity party, however temporarily called, "protestant", "presbyterian", "unitarian", "democratic", "civilized", "ecologist", "animal rightist" what have you -- they're still these people who plainly and simply hate human life as a thing.
1856446;1538406116;mircea_popescu;consider by way of ilustration that frank sinatra has this reputation, unexamined, apodictic, of some kind of smooth, very sexually powerful operator. this reputation was built on the basis of a bunch of idiotic films written and directed by gene kelly, the adam sandler of the 40s, in which frank sinatra is POINTEDLY SEXUALLY INEPT.
1856447;1538406163;mircea_popescu;this is what the pantsuit do : call good bad and bad good. that's it. and if it doesn't stick, they don't care, they just repeat it. over a long enough interval, it'll end up sticking statistically, especially if left unopposed (and who has the resources to oppose sheer femidiocy ?).
1856448;1538406221;mircea_popescu;now, these people wanted to replace the republican "several colonies" with the imperial "united states". (but they'd have stolen the name "several colonies", if that seemed more valuable in 1860.)
1856449;1538406252;mircea_popescu;the process through which they succeeded this replacement was inventing a hallucinated "freedom" for slaves, a thing that can never be.
1856450;1538406292;mircea_popescu;if i tell a girl "keep the palace floors clean", it's one thing. if i tell a girl "clean from here to here, this is your mop this is your detergent  you're to be done by noon", it's another thing.
1856451;1538406341;mircea_popescu;the difference between these two is that if the alien empire of bugs attacks planet earth, and they land on my palace floor and litter it, the former girl will organize intergalactic war with mops and buckets, AND DIE ON THAT FUCKING FLOOR. to be buried later, in a taj mahal built for the purpose.
1856452;1538406368;mircea_popescu;whereas the 2nd girl runs over to find me, and cower behind me, and "massah, massah, job no longer doable".
1856453;1538406412;mircea_popescu;an "employment contract", a writ which delineates what the ~~~SLAVE~~~ is to do is no kind of contract. its only use is for the slave to oppose to master, "but why should i be blamed for not doing x, it's not written in here".
1856454;1538406453;mircea_popescu;the utility of such devices is very moderate indeed -- ALL it ever does is support the otherwise spurious pretense that slaves are not in fact slaves but somehow citizens. lincoln needed this to support his tenuous attempts on fucking over his country. i can't imagine what we'd need it for.
1856455;1538406676;mircea_popescu;this stance informs my http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837545 as well as my position here : there's very limited use for an enumeration of duties in a lordship forum. it's fine and dandy if any lord wishes to use it in training his own slaves, but this is pointedly not what i'm contemplating in these halls.
1856456;1538406676;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 15:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider eg that pizarro doesn't need to undertake the (significant, and unbounded) cost of writing "code of conduct" or "terms of service" or any of the other nonsense. things have changed. nude bitcoin is dangerous in the sense discussed in 2012, but bitcoin-as-currency-of-the-republic eminently usable today.
1856457;1538406913;mircea_popescu;the essence, inalienable and substantial, of all freedom, is global responsibility. yes this means that you may end up blindsided by landing empires of bugs. it also, together and inseparably, means that you may be a person, and things such as "i'm not about to tell you what comp lang to use" etc. as counterdistinct from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-06#1666454
1856458;1538406913;a111;Logged on 2017-06-06 15:24 mircea_popescu: and if experience with the empire of "i just want to" lazy idiots is any guide, they're DEFINITELY not going to "get in trouble for buying microsoft". because "nobody could have predicted" and "they were just doing their job" which "hey man, it's just a gig, it's not my life!"
1856459;1538407612;mircea_popescu;aaand there goes my trilema article for the day. i wonder why i never get to publish anything anymore...
1856460;1538407641;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856355 << this'll have to get fixed.
1856461;1538407641;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 13:57 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264
1856462;1538407674;BingoBoingo;In other 64k pyramids: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/el-5-de-oro-en-el-que-se-adelanto-un-numero-y-la-explicacion-de-loterias-y-quinielas-201810110170
1856463;1538407695;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856363 << iirc you wrote it.
1856464;1538407695;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
1856465;1538407715;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ahaha they can't pay, illinois style ?
1856466;1538407745;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Number appeared on the graphic layover BEFORE coming out of the shuffling ball hopper
1856467;1538407760;mircea_popescu;a. lel.
1856468;1538407771;BingoBoingo;McDonalds monopoly style
1856469;1538407783;mircea_popescu;you know why this was, right ?
1856470;1538407834;BingoBoingo;I am unsure
1856471;1538407854;BingoBoingo;The McDonald's thing for reference https://archive.is/LsbQ6
1856472;1538407868;mircea_popescu;well, a) shuffler is never live (mostly, because the legal trappings around it require the shuffling be redone in some circumstances -- such as malfunction.)  with b) orcs can't sync a gfx.
1856473;1538407884;mircea_popescu;it'd be typically orcish to mistake b for some sort of REAL WORLD IMPORTANCE, too. but ... it isn't.
1856474;1538407889;mircea_popescu;the foregoing is no evidence of fraud.
1856475;1538407963;BingoBoingo;Well, still apparently has quite a few of the orcs lit up. Still, something to go amongst the people and talk about.
1856476;1538407970;mircea_popescu;and the "authority", or w/e judge, stuck with dealing with the "reddit revolution" will, if sane, say exact same thing. which the morons will interpret as "o noes elites have abandoned us, must make own justice"
1856477;1538407972;mircea_popescu;orcland.
1856478;1538407987;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856454 << did we ever do the turks ?
1856479;1538407987;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:07 mircea_popescu: the utility of such devices is very moderate indeed -- ALL it ever does is support the otherwise spurious pretense that slaves are not in fact slaves but somehow citizens. lincoln needed this to support his tenuous attempts on fucking over his country. i can't imagine what we'd need it for.
1856480;1538408008;mircea_popescu;well i have, in both holes. what specifically did you have in mind ?
1856481;1538408016;asciilifeform;how they were seen by euros as 'backward' for having 'errybody, from vizier down, is personal slave of sultan' instead of 'contract'
1856482;1538408030;mircea_popescu;except the milet system is exact opposite of this
1856483;1538408036;mircea_popescu;!#s "milet"
1856484;1538408036;a111;1 result for "\"milet\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22milet%22
1856485;1538408039;mircea_popescu;!#s "millet"
1856486;1538408040;a111;7 results for "\"millet\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22millet%22
1856487;1538408043;mircea_popescu;i also can't speak.
1856488;1538408045;mircea_popescu;speal*
1856489;1538408064;asciilifeform;was thinking of janissary corps , i.e. 'ss'/leibstandarte, rather than empire as whole
1856490;1538408071;mircea_popescu;ah.
1856491;1538408078;asciilifeform;y'know, their l1
1856492;1538408091;mircea_popescu;it's doubtful janissary corps = l1. palace guard is palace guard.
1856493;1538408112;asciilifeform;vizier was iirc counted as in same chart, and was defo l1.
1856494;1538408121;asciilifeform;but perhaps moar complicated, asciilifeform is not expert turkist.
1856495;1538408156;mircea_popescu;but yes, personal slaves of sultan. and i can see why, and i thought thence all the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856322 style comments. what i can't see is why they'd make them boys. orphans or not, there's still http://trilema.com/2018/traditional-family-vs-the-harem-a-comparative-study/ that controls.
1856496;1538408156;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 04:01 asciilifeform: it's a q for the current board. i suggested to ask hanbot because hanbot is known as a very skilled organizational hand, and not currently running anyffing ( aside from, possibly, mircea_popescu's janissary corps )
1856497;1538408195;asciilifeform;but upstack, pretty sure i grasp the point re contracts, they are not substitute for actual cohesion , and anyone who tries to substitute , ends up with obummer's empire, yes
1856498;1538408211;BingoBoingo;In other notes, do not accept invitations to sleep in other people's cars https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/un-hombre-fue-asesinado-en-parque-batlle-mientras-dormia-dentro-de-un-auto-201810111743
1856499;1538408238;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856463 << nope, but i ended up finding : it was polarbeard, and item was never absorbed into flagship
1856500;1538408238;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856363 << iirc you wrote it.
1856501;1538408245;BingoBoingo;^ asciilifeform Does the photographed intersection look familiar (actual event reportedly a block or so north)
1856502;1538408261;mircea_popescu;all the foregoing aside, i very much hope mod6 dun take any of it as some kind of personal rebuff. i agree with all the others who like him very much, because i also.
1856503;1538408274;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: link to photo ? i'm not seeing a photo
1856504;1538408357;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Try this one, photo shrank during archiving https://archive.is/ebJPr
1856505;1538408368;mod6;Thanks mircea_popescu, and all.  Nothing personal taken.
1856506;1538408406;mod6;I think, and I guess I could be wrong here, that it could be a good time to bring in some new leadership to the foundation.
1856507;1538408408;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: does look familiar
1856508;1538408458;mircea_popescu;o7
1856509;1538408476;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's on Avenida General Riviera, along the walk from datacenter city to "center" city
1856510;1538408484;mod6;Right now, I've got two major struggles.  The Foundation, which I feel like I've been at least successful at the trb curation end of (and am certainly much more well suited for), and Pizarro.
1856511;1538408485;diana_coman;PeterL - was waiting on your patch for the 255 instead of 256 error on keccak but since it didn't come, I patched it http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/15/eucrypt-chapter-10-oaep-with-keccak-a-la-tmsr/comment-page-1/#comment-4254 ; ref http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856345
1856512;1538408485;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 09:04 diana_coman: phf, please add the fix patch to eucrypt http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-391.0-399.38
1856513;1538408494;*;BingoBoingo really getting a kick out of seeing his everyday places in the news
1856514;1538408510;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo the advantage of a small oriental republic.
1856515;1538408523;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856495 << at some point gotta explain why the sultans with boys built empire, and the fella with roxy, pushed it off cliff
1856516;1538408523;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:35 mircea_popescu: but yes, personal slaves of sultan. and i can see why, and i thought thence all the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856322 style comments. what i can't see is why they'd make them boys. orphans or not, there's still http://trilema.com/2018/traditional-family-vs-the-harem-a-comparative-study/ that controls.
1856517;1538408548;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you hold the view caesar pushed republic off cliff ?
1856518;1538408558;asciilifeform;yes.
1856519;1538408596;mod6;Pizarro, on the other hand, I'm more of a fish out of water.
1856520;1538408603;asciilifeform;all 'pushings' have this inflexion point, sorta how it worx. consider how stalin both 'built' and 'pushed'.
1856521;1538408623;mircea_popescu;well, let us look into this. so at the time caesar was "pushing republic off cliff", the republic had a serious problem, which caesar hadn't created (the marii had created, and the bleg senate had created).
1856522;1538408636;mod6;It's hard, I'm super conflicted about the whole thing.
1856523;1538408706;mircea_popescu;there were a number of leadership lines trying to deal with it. there was the cicero- "be manlier" writer line. there was the caesar "divine right of great people" line. there was the pre-nero/napoleon fuck it all and let's party line  (recall the schmuck that adopted himself by a peon to qualify for plebeian dignities ?)
1856524;1538408719;mircea_popescu;any of these had prevailed, the republic'd have died. so why caesar's fault ? cuz he won ?
1856525;1538408751;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856404 -> ugh; to my mind a chair position is precisely not a "here's detailed list of tasks" position, it can't be
1856526;1538408751;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:35 asciilifeform: at the risk of 'bureaucratism', i'd suggest to mod6 & ben_vulpes to amend charter to explicitly make clear the duties of the chair, prior to swapping chairs. but would be curious to see what mircea_popescu thinks.
1856527;1538408754;asciilifeform;goes with winning. folx blame e.g. lenin for 9000 things he similarly 'hadn't created'.
1856528;1538408763;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'm sold.
1856529;1538408787;mircea_popescu;fine. then that's my explanation : suleyman the magnificent, in spite of being the ~best leader sublime porte ever had, nevertheless "fucked it" because he happened to walk into the room as corpse croaked.
1856530;1538408805;mircea_popescu;i don't necessarily disagree -- but the explanation stands as such.
1856531;1538409042;mod6;I love trb, and doing the foundation.  I take a very measured, meticulous, methodical, and detail oriented approach to the work to provide a very sound patch set -- as best as I can.
1856532;1538409049;mircea_popescu;(the schmuck in question, whiom i wil lstubbornly not name, was so adept at rabble rousing, pompey had trouble leaving his fucking house. notwithstanding pompey stood with caesar approx in the position the duke of exter stood with the leading perfume seller on the strand.)
1856533;1538409102;mod6;I feel like I can be pretty successful in doing that, it's the other things that I feel like I'm lacking -- a senseable direction to a 'Standford'.
1856534;1538409158;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856366 << imo syslogger should be abolished altogether. before systemd it wasn't obvious to me what it is -- but now, plenty obvious. "unified logging" terrible idea.
1856535;1538409158;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:09 asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to
1856536;1538409253;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856363 it's in the tree and works fine for me >> http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L5782
1856537;1538409253;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
1856538;1538409361;mod6;I'm really lacking in the 'sales' end of things with Pizarro too, obviously.
1856539;1538409378;mod6;It's been a tough year.  Somehow, we've got to make it work.
1856540;1538409383;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856370 << not quite, no.
1856541;1538409383;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:15 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856334 << ianal, but aint that the ~whole point of 'international maritime law' ? where iirc once insurance pays, the sunken cargo turns into 'buried treasure' and belongs to whoever lifts it, no questions asked ?
1856542;1538409398;diana_coman;I certainly think mod6 is and has been doing a great job in maintaining the v-tree for trb - and as I said before, I don't think it's something linked to tbf chair position
1856543;1538409437;mod6;Thanks diana_coman.
1856544;1538409492;mod6;One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work.
1856545;1538409537;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856375 << let's give it a public reading, then. it says : "1. Bitcoin is a far reaching innovation with effects unknown and unknowable. 2. It is altogether probable that its effects will conflict with all currently established human conventions. 3. Maintaining the core values as established by the original author in the form of a reference implementation that is lightweight, coherent and cru
1856546;1538409537;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading
1856547;1538409537;mircea_popescu;ft-free in face of this conflict requires deliberate effort involving multiple people, which in turn require management and guidance. 4. ``THE BITCOIN FOUNDATION'' will endeavour to provide these, while fostering community growth and development, under the general principle that if and  when any other thing conflicts with Bitcoin, that other thing must either be discontinued or amended in such a way as to no longer conflict w
1856548;1538409537;mircea_popescu;ith Bitcoin."
1856549;1538409544;mircea_popescu;now, when and how did 3 kill 4 ?
1856550;1538409564;mod6;And before the republic, I was very much a one-thing-at-a-time type of engineer.  Seems like over the last year or maybe 18 months, I feel like I'm context switching so much, that I find it hard to get deep into the thinking that I need to.  For instance, it bothers me that I still haven't found time to work through FFA.
1856551;1538409583;mod6;(All of this, my fault, ofc, just saying 'outloud').
1856552;1538409608;mod6;Not only FFA, but other parts of TRB that I'd love to educate myself upon.  I think you take my meaning.
1856553;1538409785;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856376 << yet new ones are born every day. thousands of girls underwent puberty as we sat and spoke today, are they also excluded, "all women that'll ever be are already here" ?
1856554;1538409785;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 asciilifeform: ( and imho all of the people qualified to work on trbi, are already here, they dun need to see duck races to be persuaded to come... )
1856555;1538409840;mircea_popescu;the girl i last fucked in the ass was... NINE years old last i visited the us. and at the time i last visited the us, "all the women that were with me -- were with me" also.
1856556;1538410004;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856377 << well, the way i read the 1-2-3-4 progression from above is that "it is focused but not limited to trb, supposed to outreach from it".
1856557;1538410004;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb
1856558;1538410025;mircea_popescu;the "focused" part is imo not in dispute. the "limited to" part, though, maybe ?
1856559;1538410071;diana_coman;yes, it's better stated that way: focused but not limited to trb
1856560;1538410184;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856381 << kinda the idea though -- if uncharted territory stays uncharted... well ? what are we, the folk living across from zanzibar, waiting for indonesians to come over and discover it, because it's easier for them to cover 5k miles than for us 50 ?
1856561;1538410184;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:23 asciilifeform: diana_coman: that's uncharted territory..
1856562;1538410194;diana_coman;mod6, I know what you mean re too-many-things-at-once (from my pov also, ideally 1 at a time but that's a luxury that I rarely get to fully indulge in, what can I say)
1856563;1538410198;diana_coman;heh, my next line there :P
1856564;1538410204;mircea_popescu;lol
1856565;1538410304;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856536 << indeed !! somehow amnesiaed right out of asciilifeform's head. puzzler solved.
1856566;1538410304;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:54 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856363 it's in the tree and works fine for me >> http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L5782
1856567;1538410306;asciilifeform;ty Mocky
1856568;1538410322;Mocky;yw
1856569;1538410368;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856534 << non-kernelistic but 'systemwide' logging is an unfortunate artifact of unixism, where there are processes that dun have write permissions anywhere but nevertheless must log
1856570;1538410368;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:52 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856366 << imo syslogger should be abolished altogether. before systemd it wasn't obvious to me what it is -- but now, plenty obvious. "unified logging" terrible idea.
1856571;1538410389;asciilifeform;i dun see why it would apply to trb tho, trb must have write or it cannot store blox.
1856572;1538410393;mircea_popescu;give them write permissions to /tmp
1856573;1538410399;asciilifeform;tmp is not reliably kept.
1856574;1538410404;mircea_popescu;so ?
1856575;1538410409;asciilifeform;so not fit for logging.
1856576;1538410419;mircea_popescu;very fit for the logging specificallty discussed here.
1856577;1538410426;asciilifeform;'oops the log is gone, randomly' is fucktarded.
1856578;1538410428;mircea_popescu;if you don't care to give item permission to write, stfu about log.
1856579;1538410450;mircea_popescu;and  thjis is what i'm sayuing : this is misdesigned. i'm not about to fuck my system so some moron somewhere can miswrite his program.
1856580;1538410459;asciilifeform;i want e.g. nginx to log, but to not have write permission anywhere else. unix offers no way to do this aside from the current horror.
1856581;1538410474;mircea_popescu;so give it permission to /log/nginx
1856582;1538410484;asciilifeform;how ?
1856583;1538410489;mircea_popescu;make a fucking /log mount point, like you already have swap
1856584;1538410504;BingoBoingo;log in directory daemon already read/writes, simplifies future ports to BeOS, DOS, etc
1856585;1538410510;asciilifeform;and how to give just 1 process ? a group per process ? ugly.
1856586;1538410519;asciilifeform;the whole unix permissions thing is a massive crock of shit
1856587;1538410526;asciilifeform;and will have to be bulldozed at some point..
1856588;1538410531;mircea_popescu;yes.
1856589;1538410586;mircea_popescu;but i very much disagree "systemwide" "log mechanism" is either acceptable or necessary. leaving "a good idea" way far behind and to the left.
1856590;1538410622;asciilifeform;it's braindamaged. but i gotta point out why i haven't said how to demolish it -- cuz haven't yet conceived of how to do so w/out losing what imho is essential function
1856591;1538410649;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856387 << and if not figure out, at least work towards figuring out. there's a difference between "i found no rock but here's 500 clumps of earth i tried" and "i don't understand whart a rock would be"
1856592;1538410649;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:25 diana_coman: I think that's precisely what the chairs need to figure out: "what might fit under this " and be useful, ofc
1856593;1538410678;asciilifeform;centralized logging actually has at least 1 known win -- i can dump all logs, or subset of'em, to tape printer
1856594;1538410685;asciilifeform;without individually fucking with each proggy that shits'em
1856595;1538410704;mircea_popescu;why are you dumping logs you don't know about ? "for later" ?
1856596;1538410721;asciilifeform;who said 'don't know about'
1856597;1538410727;asciilifeform;simply to not open 9000 hoods, when can open 1.
1856598;1538410750;asciilifeform;sorta how yer house has a mains breaker that toggles whole panel, and not simply 50 individual breakers.
1856599;1538410752;mircea_popescu;but you can't open one. the question is how you rig the opening of the 9000 hoods.
1856600;1538410801;mircea_popescu;now, intuitively, and from an actual electrical engineering standpoint, it seems intuitively right -- "rather than have wires through house connecting 9000 breakers, just have a mains breaker".
1856601;1538410802;asciilifeform;imho it's an open problem.
1856602;1538410821;asciilifeform;( observe that civilized house has both main breaker ~and~ subs )
1856603;1538410824;mircea_popescu;HOWEVER, computing-electrical engineering befuddles this intuition. for computers -- much betterf to have the wires than to fuck the upstream design
1856604;1538410849;mircea_popescu;because UNLIKE electrics, where the flow is pantsuiot, and any portion of wire == any other,  computers are hierarchied. the early portions of wire priviledged over the later.
1856605;1538410882;asciilifeform;tape printer is a constrained device, if you let >1 proggy operate it at same time, it will output garbage ( lines inside other lines etc )
1856606;1538410888;mircea_popescu;so the cost of having the computer equivalent of "mains breaker" is so disproportionately immense, the 9000 wires gain exponentially.
1856607;1538410911;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform have a script that collates the logs you want and produce a flow.
1856608;1538410920;mircea_popescu;rather than have a "system log".
1856609;1538410934;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aint that whole idea of 'system log' to begin with ?
1856610;1538410939;asciilifeform;i.e. item that collates desired flows.
1856611;1538410944;mircea_popescu;(which is -- a bug ridden, half assed, "universal" ie dysfunctional, implementation of THE SAME SCRIPT)
1856612;1538410956;asciilifeform;and yes the existing item is bug-ridden.
1856613;1538410965;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in the sense "the whole idea of the fuck channel is to do your fucking for you". you gonna watch fuck channel ?
1856614;1538410984;asciilifeform;but i read orig mircea_popescu observation as opposing very notion of collated log.
1856615;1538410989;mircea_popescu;"no -- they're doing it the wrong way with the wrong women, it does nothing for me"
1856616;1538411002;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, i am opposing having a mcdonalds log.
1856617;1538411010;asciilifeform;then i cannot disagree
1856618;1538411020;asciilifeform;would like to expel mc-anyffing from the system, yes.
1856619;1538411021;mircea_popescu;"some people who don't give a shit made this slop out of something or the other" mcdrepperism.
1856620;1538411071;asciilifeform;sane collated logging is imho major wish list item for fyootoor cuntoo.
1856621;1538411096;mircea_popescu;just as long as we don't end up with a "kernel module"
1856622;1538411134;asciilifeform;i dun see why kernel gotta be involved.
1856623;1538411149;mircea_popescu;but it ... fucking is. and they have a binary format now, too. saw that ?
1856624;1538411152;mircea_popescu;and so fucking on.
1856625;1538411179;asciilifeform;the dreppers can, demonstrably, fuck up anyffing, if you let'em build a chair, it'll have a spiked cock protruding. and maybe six.
1856626;1538411197;asciilifeform;it doesn't have much bearing on the problems faced by actual people, aside from drepper-extermination.
1856627;1538411214;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856392 << i thought the idea was to add a third. what take over ?
1856628;1538411214;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:28 asciilifeform: way i see it, if hanbot takes over mod6's duties, then oughta at least carry on what he was doing ( i.e. maintenance of the flagship tree, testing of candidate patches )
1856629;1538411232;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unless i misread, mod6 asked to be relieved of the duty.
1856630;1538411302;mircea_popescu;well... ok, but that is a latter development that'd be a separate issue. you'd want a third AND a mod6 replacement then.
1856631;1538411320;asciilifeform;right !
1856632;1538411327;asciilifeform;was asciilifeform's whole point, earlier
1856633;1538411344;asciilifeform;'yes explore antarctica, sure, but also crops gotta still be harvested back home'
1856634;1538411351;mod6;Oh, you wanted a third?  I didn't catch that.
1856635;1538411402;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855754 << join, you know, as in... add a third.
1856636;1538411402;a111;Logged on 2018-09-30 00:07 mircea_popescu: mod6 do you want to name someone to join into the chairdom ?
1856637;1538411418;mircea_popescu;i have this vague notion that the idea always was that you two will at some point summon a third.
1856638;1538411450;mircea_popescu;~then~, after that gets established, one can step down, add another, and so on. like a steps process, with continuity and everything.
1856639;1538411465;asciilifeform;^
1856640;1538411466;mircea_popescu;i don't recall now if this was specifically said re foundation or only re qntra, but the two are ~same period, in any case,
1856641;1538411477;mircea_popescu;i'd expect the mechanism'd be regarded universally.
1856642;1538411484;asciilifeform;it's the historic norm in sane undertakings, yes
1856643;1538411606;asciilifeform;Mocky et al: i'ma restart with timestamps, and from here on.
1856644;1538411654;mod6;mircea_popescu: ah, ok, which is basically how the charter reads in that section 0x2 para 3.
1856645;1538411659;mircea_popescu;in any case, the " mod6 left by himself in empty hall of foundation" not so sane situation for a mod6 to find himself into.
1856646;1538411692;mod6;True enough.
1856647;1538411712;mircea_popescu;a right, there it is even.
1856648;1538412085;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856553 << lol, seems to me that we regularly argue opposite sides of this puzzler. but yes, i'd luvv for there to be somewhere a hidden reserve of sane folx who will join republic and do quality work. but somehow they aint here yet, and i'm inclined to agree with mircea_popescu's much earlier hypothesis, where they either dun exist or are buried beneath such thick pantsuit iceberg that no drill pres
1856649;1538412085;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 16:03 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856376 << yet new ones are born every day. thousands of girls underwent puberty as we sat and spoke today, are they also excluded, "all women that'll ever be are already here" ?
1856650;1538412085;asciilifeform;ently built , can reach'em
1856651;1538412137;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Still somehow this year Mocky fished himself up and defected to the Republic
1856652;1538412137;mircea_popescu;this time it's about "make them" rather than "pre-existing"
1856653;1538412163;asciilifeform;ah
1856654;1538412181;mircea_popescu;the previous time, it was about "names -- only names in their own heads", djb, rms, whatever.
1856655;1538412186;mircea_popescu;imo accounts for the alternation.
1856656;1538412187;asciilifeform;makes sense
1856657;1538412332;asciilifeform;meanwhile in the trb observatory, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cMfST/?raw=true << restarted zoolag, and confirms my earlier hypothesis -- 'bastards' from friendlies are simply when they throw their latest block blindly at each peer, without concern for who actually can eat it, and who cannot. shitoshi's shit protocol.
1856658;1538412365;mircea_popescu;lookup is hard, and if he makes it the size it shnould be, it might crash.
1856659;1538412381;asciilifeform;the 'push' model of block propagation, is simply wrong.
1856660;1538412397;asciilifeform;( or rather, is incompatible with 'no se fia' )
1856661;1538412428;mod6;your latest includes ben's extra aggression vpatch?
1856662;1538412436;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/new-zealand-instituting-digital-customs-searches/ << Qntra - New Zealand Instituting "Digital Customs" Searches
1856663;1538412437;asciilifeform;mod6: nope. only my orig one
1856664;1538412465;mod6;ahk
1856665;1538412477;asciilifeform;mod6: ben_vulpes's patch is on my conveyor tho.
1856666;1538412488;asciilifeform;and i'm beginning to suspect that it, or some variant thereof, is The Right Thing
1856667;1538412508;asciilifeform;with my orig, a node can happily sit for potentially years without getting new blox.
1856668;1538412537;mod6;Thanks for the work/analysis.
1856669;1538412552;asciilifeform;i abolished shitoshi's 'speshulness' of ~boot time~, but to make ~peer connection time~ similarly speshul, is also mistake.
1856670;1538412562;asciilifeform;noads oughta regularly demand next valid block from peers.
1856671;1538412611;asciilifeform;cuz otherwise they'll only be sent whatever's getting pushed, and it'll almost always be 'bastard' from their pov.
1856672;1538412612;mod6;he must have operated under the impression that guy reboots his windows machine every day or some wild idea.
1856673;1538412622;mircea_popescu;no, that was exactly it.
1856674;1538412630;asciilifeform;gotta be
1856675;1538412639;mircea_popescu;bitcoin was originally designed to work in the manner kids run doom -- turn it on now and again
1856676;1538412649;mod6;*nod*
1856677;1538412650;mircea_popescu;modesty is just as often a sin as it is a virtue.
1856678;1538412660;asciilifeform;it's jawdropping retardation, but entirely on par with shitoshi's style.
1856679;1538412682;mod6;I refuse to hate on the guy, really.
1856680;1538412686;mircea_popescu;"law enforcement officials and bureaucrats are the only known demographic interested in consuming child porn." << word.
1856681;1538412707;mircea_popescu;mod6 hate is not mandatory, we're a very piss poor excuse for a cult.
1856682;1538412716;mod6;heheh.
1856683;1538412750;mod6;I am somewhat sad about the state of the bitcoin poc as created by satoshi, but I'm still very much glad we have it.
1856684;1538412784;mod6;Good thing trb has burned off many warts.  However, some warts are so deep, would kill the paitent.
1856685;1538412873;mod6;*patient
1856686;1538412895;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856519 << why is that ?
1856687;1538412895;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:43 mod6: Pizarro, on the other hand, I'm more of a fish out of water.
1856688;1538412948;mod6;Well, I've never really run a business before -- and, I have pretty much zero sales/marketing exp.
1856689;1538412973;mircea_popescu;do you in principle not want to / want to never run a business ever ?
1856690;1538413031;mod6;Well, it's not that I don't want to, I'd like it if we could somehow get the train moving down the track.  Just worried that I don't have the know-how for this.
1856691;1538413043;mircea_popescu;do you know anyone who iyo is good at sales ? irl i mean ?
1856692;1538413067;mod6;My old man was.
1856693;1538413088;mod6;I don't think those skills rubbed off.
1856694;1538413105;mod6;I've spent my life behind a screen, so it doesn't come very naturally to me.
1856695;1538413117;mircea_popescu;no but i mean someone alive whom you know, not kew.
1856696;1538413119;mircea_popescu;knew*
1856697;1538413150;mod6;Maybe a few, here and there over the years.
1856698;1538413175;mircea_popescu;alright, so make a list of the few, walk up to them and explain what problem you're encountering, and ask whether they'd be willing to either mentor or participate.
1856699;1538413204;mircea_popescu;worst case, you're out whatever drinks among old acquaintances cost you. there's worse fates.
1856700;1538413229;mod6;This is worthwhile.  I've got a vector that I'd like to start into with sales -- as far as a market.  Maybe one of these guys could help me get going.
1856701;1538413238;mod6;mircea_popescu: true
1856702;1538413243;mircea_popescu;life's given to selfperfect, after all.
1856703;1538413292;mircea_popescu;i dunno if anyone burns in hell for fucking girls too young, or too roughly, or drinking too much or burping in church. but i see it altogether possible that you show up before st peter and he's like "shit shane, you STILL suck at sales ?! off to the ovens with you, for shame!"
1856704;1538413310;mod6;lol
1856705;1538413317;mircea_popescu;i'm not even kidding!
1856706;1538413423;mod6;Yeah, I've gotta figure it out.
1856707;1538413475;BingoBoingo;Aite, who the fuck tried to call me from Senegal
1856708;1538413485;mircea_popescu;your next gf ?
1856709;1538413493;asciilifeform;lol
1856710;1538413493;BingoBoingo;Mebbe?
1856711;1538413504;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: maybe dhl ?
1856712;1538413510;mircea_popescu;aaahahahaha.
1856713;1538413516;BingoBoingo;No, DHL calls from inside Uruguay
1856714;1538413522;mod6;We have your "airplane" ready.
1856715;1538413523;mircea_popescu;"herro sir your package very much ready at rk haus in senegal!"
1856716;1538413528;BingoBoingo;ANd they don't do the one ring disappear bulshit
1856717;1538413530;asciilifeform;then 'prince with millions', who else..
1856718;1538413531;mircea_popescu;all halal!
1856719;1538413578;asciilifeform;harar
1856720;1538413644;BingoBoingo;I'm leaning towards suspecting the robocall scammers hacked a Uruguayo office and under the impression Uruguay is a "rich" company have decided to pilfer
1856721;1538413676;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i get china regularly. but they go via pwned usa boxen.
1856722;1538413716;asciilifeform;( lotsa folx in usa, esp. on the sadder telcos, have foreign call switched off entirely )
1856723;1538413733;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856544 << well... everybody does, no ?
1856724;1538413733;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:58 mod6: One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work.
1856725;1538413754;mod6;Yeah, I think so.
1856726;1538413760;mod6;I kinda miss that.
1856727;1538413823;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856550 << ah, this may be a problem, i guess. i suppose is what i meant by http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855743
1856728;1538413823;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:59 mod6: And before the republic, I was very much a one-thing-at-a-time type of engineer.  Seems like over the last year or maybe 18 months, I feel like I'm context switching so much, that I find it hard to get deep into the thinking that I need to.  For instance, it bothers me that I still haven't found time to work through FFA.
1856729;1538413823;a111;Logged on 2018-09-30 00:05 mircea_popescu: i kinda have in the back of my mind this impression that poor shane's ended up stuck with a large number of loose ends to juggle.
1856730;1538413858;mircea_popescu;now and again activity gotta be rationalized.
1856731;1538413880;asciilifeform;i have exactly same problem ( '10 pounds of shit in a 1 pound bag' ) , sorta assumed mod6 et al suffer similar.
1856732;1538413880;mod6;oh I must have missed that line from before.
1856733;1538413900;mircea_popescu;mod6 you know it occurs to me you miss a lot of my lines!!
1856734;1538413917;mod6;I actually assume it's worse for alf.  I have no idea how alf can keep up in irc, and all the other things.  Guy has 20,000 hands.
1856735;1538413945;mircea_popescu;maybe it's all the buttsex, opens up his chakras.
1856736;1538413979;asciilifeform;lol
1856737;1538413984;mod6;mircea_popescu: I actually do read the logs, but -- again, I wish I had more time to really grok the logs.  Instead of just snarf them and move on to the next thing.
1856738;1538413992;mod6;hahaha
1856739;1538414023;asciilifeform;pretty often when going to sleep i read coupla wks of log, again & again...
1856740;1538414046;asciilifeform;sometimes will actually find missed / improperly-digested nugget.
1856741;1538414057;mod6;I feel like, this will improve for me -- all of it.  As someday I'll break out of these mines.
1856742;1538414066;mod6;Might not be that far off, either.
1856743;1538414074;asciilifeform;it is imperfect approach, and unpleasantly reminiscent of how leporidae eat their grass. but i havent found substantially better algo.
1856744;1538414103;mircea_popescu;i re-read logs also. i dun see the problem, what, log should be toilet paper, use once ?
1856745;1538414112;asciilifeform;nah
1856746;1538414120;asciilifeform;but ideally oughta go 'in' on 1st pass imho
1856747;1538414129;mod6;Yeah, I try to re-read stuff too -- actually links within logs actually help to force ya to do it.
1856748;1538414134;asciilifeform;verily
1856749;1538414135;mod6;Gotta get your context somewhere.
1856750;1538414191;asciilifeform;i do wonder sometimes how i'd organize day if i actually had whole day to tmsr
1856751;1538414198;asciilifeform;but i dun expect to have this 'problem' any time soon
1856752;1538414202;mircea_popescu;i dunno how hard a requirement "go on 1st pass" can be. as long as it eventually goes in...
1856753;1538414264;*;mod6 brb, meat
1856754;1538414412;asciilifeform;the sad troof is that ~all of asciilifeform's 'deep' worx (i.e. the ones that require loading a whole proggy / algo 'into head' ) happen on vacations & weekends (when the latter not filled with saecular crapola) rather than nights
1856755;1538414469;asciilifeform;i cannot speak for e.g. trinque , phf, mod6 , but would not be surprised if same is the case there.
1856756;1538414538;asciilifeform;the repeated 'loading' costs quite a bit of time.
1856757;1538414562;asciilifeform;i.e. saturday, 'loading', sunday -- doing, then 5d of microshit, then new saturday, 'load' again...
1856758;1538414574;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=36 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/27/2018
1856759;1538414614;mircea_popescu;my nonsense comes to me whenever it feels like -- in the shower, it ruined fucking once or twice also, often in the morn waking me up (the idea bladder is way the fuck worsew than the urine bladder -- which latter never ever wakes me up)...
1856760;1538414625;asciilifeform;nicoleci: you have unclosed links in yer page, last 2 items
1856761;1538414635;mircea_popescu;pretty sure there's numerous threads going ~always on in the background, dun need loading, loaded once. in like, 1996.
1856762;1538414658;mircea_popescu;so maybe... stop rebooting brains like windows machines ? i dunno!
1856763;1538414666;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ideas come ~24/7. i was speaking of unrolling-into-concretes
1856764;1538414674;asciilifeform;proggies, articles, theorems.
1856765;1538414694;mircea_popescu;ah. now that, can be very iffy, ima yell at people interrupting.
1856766;1538414694;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun expect you'd have the 'reboot' problem, no.
1856767;1538414710;asciilifeform;at least not in the morbid form asciilifeform gets.
1856768;1538414770;asciilifeform;and yes [insert oblig thread!111] if i knew how to stop while keeping the lights on, i'd've stopped in 2013.
1856769;1538414926;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in other lulz, "<nicoleci> omg asciilifeform <nicoleci> i couldnt load the page fast enough to fix it before he said anything <nicoleci> its already fixed but im not voiced"
1856770;1538414940;asciilifeform;lol
1856771;1538414970;asciilifeform;confirmed, fixed.
1856772;1538415063;asciilifeform;but to summarize subthread -- asciilifeform gets 1 day / wk, and that's on a ~good~ wk, to run the deep drills. the rest of the time, stuck on surface.
1856773;1538415083;asciilifeform;( luckily -- perhaps -- there's plenty to do on surface )
1856774;1538417439;mod6;yeah, that's pretty relateable for me
1856775;1538418307;asciilifeform;http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2018-10-1#437758 << meanwhile conclusion of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-20#1852509 story .
1856776;1538418307;a111;Logged on 2018-09-20 14:21 asciilifeform: in other misc noose, chinese nao sell a 10inch spi-interfaced eink display thing with <1s refresh, fits on e.g. our rk3328-roc-cc board without solderings. theoretically a lappy can be hand-sewn .
1856777;1538418307;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-10-01 17:55 TomServo: asciilifeform: I tried getting one of the screens you mentioned here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-20#1852509
1856778;1538418406;mod6;hey neat-o!
1856779;1538418411;asciilifeform;mno
1856780;1538418414;asciilifeform;read whole thing
1856781;1538418433;mod6;oh, /me looks
1856782;1538418569;mod6;awe that sucks
1856783;1538418571;mod6;:/
1856784;1538418610;asciilifeform;i was able to find a film clip on www of somebody who actually got hold of the thing, and it didnt redraw in ANYTHING like 1sec
1856785;1538418613;asciilifeform;so possibly for the better...
1856786;1538419148;asciilifeform;'tis a shame tho, asciilifeform would much like a rk3328 lappy that worx for whole day in open sunlight..
1856787;1538419207;asciilifeform;( no known lcd worx worth half a shit in sunlight, unless one pumps sumthing like 50 watt into the backlight, and even then )
1856788;1538419261;asciilifeform;'eink' is moar or less exactly The Right Thing for hypothetical 'thinking man's lappy'.
1856789;1538419281;asciilifeform;a ~1s redraw would moar than suffice for emacs.
1856790;1538419473;Mocky;plus full screen redraw not always necessary depending on how quickly 'artifact pixels' accumulate with local redraws
1856791;1538419505;asciilifeform;Mocky: afaik all of the decent chipsets support 'partial draw'
1856792;1538419513;asciilifeform;where you specify a rectangle etc
1856793;1538419548;asciilifeform;you still need ~full draw for scrolling/paging tho
1856794;1538419625;asciilifeform;i've found that i personally think palpably smoother when on balcony, in sunlight. but atm can only do this with printouts..
1856795;1538419627;Mocky;yes but two types of redraw, one hard blanks out rect and then draws (amounts to 2 redraws), the other attempts update
1856796;1538419643;asciilifeform;Mocky: correct
1856797;1538419658;asciilifeform;the panels also have a common cathode thing for clear-all-accumulated-rubbish
1856798;1538419820;asciilifeform;Mocky: the linked part was claimed to fit 'rpi header' (i.e. the 40pin thing on various arm boards, incl. our rk3328) with 0 solder or fancy interfacing. but apparently nodice.
1856799;1538419879;asciilifeform;imho 'ideal' epaper gadget would simply have serial port and emulate vt100, and then could fit to anyffing at all.
1856800;1538419986;Mocky;imo current eink refresh rate wants applications that have slightly different display semantics than what we have today which is based on 'full screen refresh has no cost'
1856801;1538420008;asciilifeform;Mocky: depends who 'we'. e.g. mine, work ok with partial refreshing.
1856802;1538420014;asciilifeform;and i expect the 'vi' users even moar so.
1856803;1538420031;asciilifeform;( hell, i'd live with 'vi' myself if that were the only cost.. )
1856804;1538420034;mod6;are there any colors on ink-screen?
1856805;1538420039;mod6;(ANSI colors?)
1856806;1538420043;mod6;or just bw/wht?
1856807;1538420049;asciilifeform;mod6: the chinese make 3color thing, but it has poorer contrast than the classical one
1856808;1538420055;asciilifeform;the latter gives iirc 16 shades.
1856809;1538420056;mod6;i see
1856810;1538420058;asciilifeform;(4bit grey)
1856811;1538420059;mod6;oh
1856812;1538420063;mod6;ok
1856813;1538420099;asciilifeform;the ordinary kind , with grey, loox indoors like 'old newspaper' but outside, in sun, is pretty great imho.
1856814;1538420295;asciilifeform;i'd very willingly trade my coloured emacs for 1bit b&w thing, at least on sunny day.
1856815;1538420323;asciilifeform;but i currently suspect that this is 1 of those 'only asciilifeform wants' items, and hence won't exist any time soon.
1856816;1538420392;Mocky;asciilifeform, well even partial refresh on every key press isn't ideal with eink, which 'editing in place' could be greatly reduced, but perhaps crackpot idea
1856817;1538420426;asciilifeform;Mocky: it'd work entirely cleanly, imho, with 'vi'
1856818;1538420438;asciilifeform;where you edit 1 line at a time, and full screen is rarely drawn
1856819;1538420484;mod6;what about one of these? https://www.mouser.com/new/adafruit/adafruit-raspberry-pi-7inch-display/
1856820;1538420508;asciilifeform;that's an lcd, mod6
1856821;1538420513;asciilifeform;and tiny, too.
1856822;1538420531;mod6;7", but yeah, i dunno i kinda like LCD. but agree, sucks outside.
1856823;1538420541;mod6;im not computing outdoors much tho
1856824;1538420549;asciilifeform;if you want lcd, can get it in any size, up to , idk, metres
1856825;1538420552;mod6;especially in weather like we've had lately. :]
1856826;1538420565;asciilifeform;thread was specifically re not-lcd.
1856827;1538420588;mod6;ok.  gotcha.  so we could have rockchip laptop if we had a lcd?
1856828;1538420604;asciilifeform;mod6: as 'suitcase' ? in principle yes. iirc we even had thread.
1856829;1538420612;asciilifeform;this was always possible.
1856830;1538420656;mod6;interesting, 'tis all
1856831;1538420676;asciilifeform;aside from sunlight, the other win from 'eink', mod6 , is that it draws 0 current when not drawing.
1856832;1538420682;asciilifeform;hence ideal for lappy.
1856833;1538420701;asciilifeform;lcd, esp. if you want it to be visible in the day, draws quite heavy currents.
1856834;1538420722;asciilifeform;i for instance am sitting in front of 350watt of lcd right nao.
1856835;1538420730;asciilifeform;( can very much feel the heat, even, from it )
1856836;1538420749;mod6;ah, i see.  makes sense.
1856837;1538420756;mod6;0 draw for longer life.
1856838;1538420848;phf;adafruit sells a 3" eink screen which connects over gpio, i'm not grokking why nobody's selling anything bigger. the whole field is a mystery
1856839;1538420860;asciilifeform;phf: wouldja program on a 3" screen ?!
1856840;1538420875;asciilifeform;phf: funnily enuff i have that screen, experimented with use as indicator. it's dog slow.
1856841;1538420906;asciilifeform;phf: you can get up to 10" panels, for ~pennies, the issue is the controller, nobody makes 1 that works with the surplus 'kindle' etc panels.
1856842;1538420929;asciilifeform;and it's a fairly gnarly analogue device, with peculiar voltages and very particular ( per panel ) timings.
1856843;1538420948;phf;yeah, i turned it into an "analogue" clock and left it at that
1856844;1538420963;asciilifeform;it can e.g. 'display latest log line'
1856845;1538420968;asciilifeform;but certainly no lappy substitute.
1856846;1538421007;phf;asciilifeform: i'm somewhat familiar with the field, there's periodic hackaday posts about attempts to reverse engineer the whachamacallem refresh matrices or whatever specialized name they have
1856847;1538421032;asciilifeform;phf: i read'em, intensely hand-sewn thing that works when phase of moon is just-so..
1856848;1538421100;phf;closests i've gotten to eink display is a jailbroken kindle with a hacky local client of some sort (there's vnc and there's also a kindle native terminal). obviously unfit for real work
1856849;1538421109;asciilifeform;d00d had fpga & buncha FETs for taking the outputs to the magic voltage, buck converter for generating same, painstakenly hand-placed ribbon connectors, etc
1856850;1538421118;asciilifeform;phf: yea not really fit for adults
1856851;1538421138;asciilifeform;( who the fuck wants to contend with TWO linux boxen , with TWO batteries, etc )
1856852;1538421253;asciilifeform;phf: iirc damned things are even temperature-sensitive
1856853;1538421317;phf;haha, yes, i remember, you have to feed that data to that 3" eink screen
1856854;1538421400;asciilifeform;phf: as i reckon, they're designed from the start to be integrated into some starvation-cheap konsoomer crapola . ergo they omit the controller.
1856855;1538421422;asciilifeform;it's very spiffy tech but has fallen victim to crappleization.
1856856;1538421466;asciilifeform;( and the ones that ~do~ come with controller, are marketed to the idjit 'hackaday' crowd, and so they get this ersatz thing that half-worx )
1856857;1538421580;phf;there's probably an upper bound of availability of thinking man's technology, kind of like strugatsky's "za milliard let do konca sveta". once you start hitting those limits suddenly "my baby is in hospitals these days" etc.
1856858;1538421616;asciilifeform;phf: we did have the 'mass marketism' thread, aha
1856859;1538421631;asciilifeform;the availability of thinking-man tech that can't be repackaged and sold to the lolcats, is ~0 .
1856860;1538421655;asciilifeform;!#s faberge
1856861;1538421655;a111;21 results for "faberge", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=faberge
1856862;1538421676;asciilifeform;or e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-08#1811277 .
1856863;1538421676;a111;Logged on 2018-05-08 16:58 asciilifeform: i suspect that subtracting the rolex,vertu,patek,etc. pseudo-craftsman industrial garbage, leaves the null set tho.
1856864;1538421690;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Rockchip package in hand
1856865;1538421697;asciilifeform;congrats BingoBoingo !!
1856866;1538421720;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, i have word that the one you sent, also came in, will be picking it up shortly
1856867;1538421726;BingoBoingo;Package was opened and sealed with tape reading "Terminal de Cargas Uruguay"
1856868;1538421731;asciilifeform;lol
1856869;1538421741;BingoBoingo;Let's see what the tape on yours says
1856870;1538421784;phf;asciilifeform: i'm mostly making a humorous point. there was after all a time when you could connect your commodore to your cathode ray tube
1856871;1538421818;asciilifeform;phf: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-08#1230143 re 'thinking man's'
1856872;1538421818;a111;Logged on 2015-08-08 03:58 asciilifeform: and here is where we meet up with vlsi boojum: you can't do vlsi economically if there is room for six computers total.
1856873;1538421834;asciilifeform;phf: there was, and, observe, it went away.
1856874;1538421863;asciilifeform;under the humorous, there's a pretty tragic loss.
1856875;1538421872;asciilifeform;and entirely pinnable on the lolcat-market.
1856876;1538421896;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu refers to it as 'the killer micro problem'
1856877;1538421968;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if you can swing by the dc today, stuff 2 of the new drives into dulap plox.
1856878;1538422003;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Will do in a bit
1856879;1538422005;asciilifeform;( i'ma image'em for the 2 currently dead pilotplant boxen )
1856880;1538422007;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo
1856881;1538422032;asciilifeform;the living, we can move later, as the customers permit us to schedule downtime
1856882;1538422055;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: fit the hedgehogs 1st plox.
1856883;1538422069;asciilifeform;( rubbing alcohol clean the surface, then stick on as many as fit , per )
1856884;1538422109;asciilifeform;i gotta take off my hat to BingoBoingo's orccraft skillz.
1856885;1538422119;asciilifeform;tbh i did not expect to see this crate surface.
1856886;1538422196;mod6;<+BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: Rockchip package in hand << hey! Some good news 'eh.
1856887;1538422214;mod6;Glad to hear it.
1856888;1538422232;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Will do after icing knee\
1856889;1538422247;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol i thought you didn't even have motorcycle yet!111
1856890;1538422306;BingoBoingo;I hit it on this here desk I've managed not to hit hundreds of times already
1856891;1538422333;BingoBoingo;Then I navigated poorly behaved zombie crowds
1856892;1538422359;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: oh hey, post a pic of the epic crate.
1856893;1538422361;asciilifeform;historic
1856894;1538422394;BingoBoingo;All the stop start, change speed, twist pivot, plant shoulder for impact did a number on the thing
1856895;1538422405;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Going to give it a dignified posting
1856896;1538423926;BingoBoingo;And deedbot should be linking pic post soon
1856897;1538423962;deedbot;http://bingology.net/2018/10/01/unboxing-and-alfajor-oreo/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Unboxing And Alfajor Oreo
1856898;1538424111;mod6;holy shit, they packed a cookie in there after they opened the bag?
1856899;1538424191;BingoBoingo;No, I brought the cookie
1856900;1538424213;BingoBoingo;Getting the bag was occasion enough to justify eating the cookie
1856901;1538424236;mod6;OOh.
1856902;1538424254;mod6;I was like, sonsofbitches are trying to kill you.
1856903;1538424779;BingoBoingo;Nah
1856904;1538425210;BingoBoingo;Brb, walking to Dulap
1856905;1538426372;asciilifeform;aaaaaand i got'em ! ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850492 ) ty BingoBoingo !
1856906;1538426372;a111;Logged on 2018-09-14 19:41 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Package is in the mail
1856907;1538426448;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856898 << lol! i also thought
1856908;1538426448;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 20:01 mod6: holy shit, they packed a cookie in there after they opened the bag?
1856909;1538426617;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: item showed no obvious signs of molestation.
1856910;1538426634;asciilifeform;( i.e. prolly passed as 'paper' )
1856911;1538426680;asciilifeform;( speaking of the parcel with the dead drives )
1856912;1538426743;asciilifeform;the dissection prolly won't happen till weekend tho.
1856913;1538428137;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: One of the spiffy new sticks is in Dulap. Their individual height is too great to double up
1856914;1538428146;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo
1856915;1538428160;asciilifeform;got the heatsinks on ?
1856916;1538428177;BingoBoingo;I have heatsinks on two at the moment
1856917;1538428195;BingoBoingo;But without the heatsinks still too tall to double up (keychain retainer)
1856918;1538428212;asciilifeform;aite
1856919;1538428228;BingoBoingo;Still very spiffy pieces of kit
1856920;1538428246;asciilifeform;this'll remain to be seen
1856921;1538428253;asciilifeform;the old ones also seemed great until rot.
1856922;1538428296;asciilifeform;i went with 'heat' as hypothesis re lifespan, and so got these with moar surface , plus room for hedgehog
1856923;1538428307;asciilifeform;yet still imho the particular style of death the old ones died, was quite peculiar.
1856924;1538428316;asciilifeform;and not really consistent with typical picture of ssd death.
1856925;1538428334;BingoBoingo;Well, these feel like the sort of thing mircea_popescu could fill up a sack with and use for beating passers-by. The old ones not so much
1856926;1538428353;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> ( i.e. prolly passed as 'paper' ) << How are you enjoying the tourist information?
1856927;1538428362;asciilifeform;gave to pet to read
1856928;1538428377;asciilifeform;( mostly old noose, for me )
1856929;1538428402;asciilifeform;it made a+++ packaging tho, recommended for fyootoor use
1856930;1538428414;BingoBoingo;I'll try to find more
1856931;1538428489;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , let BingoBoingo & asciilifeform know when is good day to take down yer units and copy contents to new drives.
1856932;1538428506;asciilifeform;( i expect operation will take ~3hr per. )
1856933;1538428527;BingoBoingo;We can prolly also insert drives for self copying
1856934;1538428543;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: linux is retarded enuff that can't properly copy from living drive
1856935;1538428547;asciilifeform;so gotta happen in dulap.
1856936;1538428564;asciilifeform;dd_rescue .
1856937;1538428667;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , also give signal re whether you want the newer iptables-enabled kernel to go on your boot sd , when we take the boxen down ( iirc we already did mod6's )
1856938;1538428704;mod6;iirc ya, mine should be up-to-date
1856939;1538429085;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes : if yer feeling brave, can also keep old drive on usb2 jack, as auxiliary storage, see just how long they live...
1856940;1538429107;asciilifeform;( pizarro per se has no use for the old drives once we get errybody onto the new )
1856941;1538429126;mod6;sounds good to me
1856942;1538429131;asciilifeform;rk, in case anyone forgot, has 1 usb3 and  usb2 holes.
1856943;1538429140;asciilifeform;( some folx have FG, those will have 1 empty hole )
1856944;1538429159;asciilifeform;*2 usb2
1856945;1538429163;mod6;ah
1856946;1538432205;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/photo-french-president-macron-finds-dem-bucks/ << Qntra - Photo: French President Macron Finds Dem Bucks
1856947;1538432653;BingoBoingo;Photo post because for some reason the Qntra title and link bot still hasn't been banned from twitter
1856948;1538436595;lobbes;asciilifeform BingoBoingo: anytime tomorrow (or tonight) worx for me. I've got my blog backed up so feel free to go-ahead whenever ready
1856949;1538436600;lobbes;I would also love an iptable-enabled kernel. And ditto on keeping the old drive as an auxiliary; may as well eh
1856950;1538436752;asciilifeform;lobbes: got it, we'll do yours tomorrow
1856951;1538436754;BingoBoingo;lobbes: ty, will coordinate with alf to get you hooked up
1856952;1538436798;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: drive for RK-A currently being written
1856953;1538436806;asciilifeform;oughta be ready when you wake up
1856954;1538436813;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Cool
1856955;1538436878;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: aaactually it's ready now
1856956;1538436883;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: emplace it at your earliest.
1856957;1538436902;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc 'C' was the other dead ?
1856958;1538436931;BingoBoingo;Lemme check the notes
1856959;1538437032;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Yes, will walk over to the DC and swap sticks
1856960;1538437088;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo
1856961;1538437171;BingoBoingo;When I was over earlier the boards were noticeably cooler to the touch
1856962;1538437183;asciilifeform;oughta be, with the blower, neh
1856963;1538437208;BingoBoingo;Doesn't feel like much air moving, but it's working
1856964;1538437285;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lemme know when ready
1856965;1538439625;mod6;evenin'
1856966;1538440803;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: A is powered up as are the fans. Added a few more 5v ports
1856967;1538440873;BingoBoingo;evenin mod6
1856968;1538440884;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Drive for C placed in dulap as well
1856969;1538440974;mod6;workin' on the pizarro stuff here...
1856970;1538441162;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ok gimme 5m
1856971;1538441211;asciilifeform;A confirmed operational.
1856972;1538441218;asciilifeform;nao lemme set up 'B'..
1856973;1538441259;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: C
1856974;1538441275;asciilifeform;ah yes
1856975;1538441276;BingoBoingo;mod6 lives in B
1856976;1538441329;asciilifeform;ok 'C' will be ready in ~5min
1856977;1538441384;BingoBoingo;Aite, lemme walk back to the datacenter
1856978;1538441394;asciilifeform;bring all of the drives
1856979;1538441606;asciilifeform;ok BingoBoingo when you get there, feel free to re-ignite C ( disk is ready )
1856980;1538441627;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: then power down lobbes's unit and put its disk in dulap, i'ma snapshot
1856981;1538441701;mircea_popescu;in other not really news, there's something very pretty about a slavegirl examining her welts in disbelief.
1856982;1538441718;asciilifeform;lol, was it n00b's 1st thrashing or wat
1856983;1538441745;mod6;i know what that's like
1856984;1538441860;mod6;:p
1856985;1538441985;mircea_popescu;well, first trashing with this particular implement.
1856986;1538442048;mod6;hockey stick?
1856987;1538442094;mircea_popescu;nah, there;s this special plastic thing, leaves these... love kisses, let's call them.
1856988;1538442098;mircea_popescu;uberpainful hickeys.
1856989;1538442124;mod6;youch
1856990;1538442149;mircea_popescu;especially made for hurting girls, really. gets say the oh-so-delicate inner thigh to perfection.
1856991;1538442190;mod6;oh yeah, lot of nerve endings there.  that smarts.
1856992;1538442194;asciilifeform;reminds me of... i gotta have seen it in a mircea_popescu article, can't think where else could've. that thing in egypt, made from hippo leather
1856993;1538442204;asciilifeform;what was it called.
1856994;1538442223;mod6;hippos in these parts just disgust me
1856995;1538442249;asciilifeform;mod6: was a traditional whipping stick
1856996;1538442297;asciilifeform;http://www.bullwhipsquadron.org/sjambok << possibly it
1856997;1538442331;asciilifeform;tho iirc i first encountered it under some other name
1856998;1538442333;mircea_popescu;do you mean my dragon tail ?
1856999;1538442343;mod6;goddamn
1857000;1538442355;asciilifeform;i've nfi, i have not seen mircea_popescu's inventory, dunno which is dragon's tail
1857001;1538442374;mircea_popescu;apparently no published pic.
1857002;1538442382;asciilifeform;loox like, or i'd recall
1857003;1538442413;asciilifeform;iirc hippo-skin whip was mentioned in a mircea_popescu piece re egypt pre-british
1857004;1538442421;asciilifeform;was in some vintage txt quote
1857005;1538442459;mircea_popescu;possibru
1857006;1538442481;asciilifeform;kurbash !
1857007;1538442504;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856794 << you might be the first fellow to palpate a thought.
1857008;1538442504;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 18:47 asciilifeform: i've found that i personally think palpably smoother when on balcony, in sunlight. but atm can only do this with printouts..
1857009;1538442524;asciilifeform;i palpate'em, to borrow a mircea_popescuism, 'in both holes' !11
1857010;1538442531;mircea_popescu;kurbash tk = girbaci ro.
1857011;1538442537;asciilifeform;aah!
1857012;1538442547;asciilifeform;so as far as ro, exquisite hippo leather..
1857013;1538442600;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856800 << possibly the correct solution is to go back to 1980s handcalc state of the art, declare CELLS.
1857014;1538442600;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 18:53 Mocky: imo current eink refresh rate wants applications that have slightly different display semantics than what we have today which is based on 'full screen refresh has no cost'
1857015;1538442621;mircea_popescu;then a) no moar unicode and b) full screen update ~costless.
1857016;1538442626;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, the historical/trad ru кнут was considered 'proprietary tech', all examples were inventoried, and afaik none survived the 19th c prohibition on the whipping
1857017;1538442653;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that would rock.
1857018;1538442655;mircea_popescu;ro has cnut ; they were handmade throughout
1857019;1538442684;asciilifeform;word ended up generic 'whip' in modern ru, but there was a specific item, and whipper was considered skilled trade, with year+ apprenticeship
1857020;1538442691;mircea_popescu;yup.
1857021;1538442705;mircea_popescu;ro generic is "bici", whip. cnut is specifically weighted item
1857022;1538442714;asciilifeform;( the skill lay in administering 'just right' amt of thrashing, to turn a '10 strokes' into a death sentence, or 200 into survivable/educational )
1857023;1538442733;mircea_popescu;i doubt 200 were ever survived. but sure, 40.
1857024;1538442738;asciilifeform;they were, on record
1857025;1538442745;asciilifeform;the obvious way -- whipper would artfully miss
1857026;1538442751;mircea_popescu;a
1857027;1538442753;asciilifeform;in return, of course, for bakshish
1857028;1538442756;asciilifeform;on which he'd live.
1857029;1538442803;asciilifeform;the moar astonishing phact, is that the punishment was typically administered by ~two~ whippers, and they'd have to coordinate re 'speshul order'.
1857030;1538442820;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856804 << speaking of this, i find it INSUFFERABLE that irc has semantics for "change colors" but has not semantics for a href.
1857031;1538442820;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 18:53 mod6: are there any colors on ink-screen?
1857032;1538442831;mircea_popescu;if we ever end up doing our own network, i utterly want this patched out.
1857033;1538442842;asciilifeform;( i recently read a old ru treatise re subj, will dig up the link if anybody really wants )
1857034;1538442860;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm not aware of colour in irc
1857035;1538442867;asciilifeform;at least, it dun seem to exist in any of my clients
1857036;1538442871;mircea_popescu;read teh spec.
1857037;1538442877;*;asciilifeform believes
1857038;1538442915;mod6;Don'tcha remember mod6's irssi?
1857039;1538442917;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856815 <<i'd try it if it existed ; but i work on desktops.
1857040;1538442917;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 18:58 asciilifeform: but i currently suspect that this is 1 of those 'only asciilifeform wants' items, and hence won't exist any time soon.
1857041;1538442931;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aaactually the koreans make one for desk
1857042;1538442951;mircea_popescu;yes but i don't have problems with the elements at my desk.
1857043;1538442962;asciilifeform;http://www.dasungtech.com ftr.
1857044;1538442979;mircea_popescu;i can also position girls with palm leaves on balcony, or just mere tits. but we'll skip this.
1857045;1538442981;asciilifeform;costs coupla kilobux.
1857046;1538442998;asciilifeform;prolly worx ok with chix, palm leaves, etc.
1857047;1538443022;mod6;the spines on the palm leaves tho, ouch
1857048;1538443062;asciilifeform;( the korean thing is interesting in that they jacked up the current and thing refreshes fast enuff to play 'doom'... )
1857049;1538443073;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856831 << this is a very solid point. add to it that cuntoo won't support gnome, and suddenly you see it : rk draws 15miliAmps, screen draws an average of i dunno, .6. suddenly a 5kAh battery lasts... 5k hours.
1857050;1538443073;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 19:04 asciilifeform: aside from sunlight, the other win from 'eink', mod6 , is that it draws 0 current when not drawing.
1857051;1538443087;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sorta the main thrust behind asciilifeform's interest
1857052;1538443091;asciilifeform;the balcony thing is secondary
1857053;1538443103;asciilifeform;i specifically ~like~ that microshit victim couldn't use it.
1857054;1538443104;mircea_popescu;and weighs as much as a babyduck.
1857055;1538443109;mircea_popescu;so yes, not entirely sad thought.
1857056;1538443110;asciilifeform;indeed, coupla gram
1857057;1538443192;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856839 <<< remember when all the chickies programmed their sms'en on 2 inch screens, 2.1 button presses per character on avg ?
1857058;1538443192;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 19:07 asciilifeform: phf: wouldja program on a 3" screen ?!
1857059;1538443209;asciilifeform;lol programmed
1857060;1538443374;mod6;ye ole t9?
1857061;1538443397;mod6;i don't know how the fuck they did that shit.  my girl could do it blind
1857062;1538443399;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856857 << these limits are everywhere. "we deliver" "no you don't" / "restaurants exist" "no they don't : http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ " and so on. the world essentially consists of the ~assumptions~ of existence and function of a large crowd of morons who never test these.
1857063;1538443399;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 19:19 phf: there's probably an upper bound of availability of thinking man's technology, kind of like strugatsky's "za milliard let do konca sveta". once you start hitting those limits suddenly "my baby is in hospitals these days" etc.
1857064;1538443441;mircea_popescu;so you know, "usa is the powerfulest thing ever" "reheheally" / "oh, #metoo matters" "where ?" and so on ad infinitum.
1857065;1538443463;mircea_popescu;"we are the premiere science and technology nothingatall in teh world!" "then how come the world series is always in fucking iowa"
1857066;1538443479;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in asciilifeform's torture room , term is 'lithium battery'
1857067;1538443484;mircea_popescu;right ?
1857068;1538443488;asciilifeform;these have their nominal voltage 4evah
1857069;1538443489;mircea_popescu;"oh, problem solved!!!" "dude...."
1857070;1538443491;asciilifeform;even 20yrs in dumpster
1857071;1538443495;asciilifeform;but measure it under any load..
1857072;1538443513;mircea_popescu;exactly! i agree, this is the icon of the problem. lithium batteries, everywhere. precisely-so.
1857073;1538443537;asciilifeform;( this is a property of ordinary li cells, the kind in chinesium wristwatch, or yer bios, rather than the lappy type )
1857074;1538443827;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856864 <<< ahahaha! way to go.
1857075;1538443827;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 19:21 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Rockchip package in hand
1857076;1538443854;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not only in hand, but BingoBoingo is in there nao and we revived 2 units and nao doing lobbes's
1857077;1538443864;asciilifeform;( going as we speak )
1857078;1538443883;mircea_popescu;nice.
1857079;1538443892;asciilifeform;rk units A & C are ready forbiznis.
1857080;1538443923;asciilifeform;diana_coman & mod6 will get brand new disks when they signal readiness for downtime
1857081;1538443946;mod6;I'll get to ya in like a week or so.
1857082;1538443950;asciilifeform;worx
1857083;1538443965;mod6;well, as soon as I get this report done.
1857084;1538444054;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856898 << bwahahaha.
1857085;1538444054;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 20:01 mod6: holy shit, they packed a cookie in there after they opened the bag?
1857086;1538444192;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> nice. << New drive cases transfer substantially more heat, have much more mass, surface area, etc
1857087;1538444202;mircea_popescu;cool.
1857088;1538444206;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: can you get a quick photo of these ?
1857089;1538444208;asciilifeform;for the l0gz
1857090;1538444218;mircea_popescu;kinda what the whole thing is all about ; moat made of earned knowledge and so on.
1857091;1538444268;asciilifeform;indeed
1857092;1538444307;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: photo grabbed, will upload when I return to coffee pot. Juggling enough memory devices as is
1857093;1538444317;asciilifeform;aite
1857094;1538444334;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lobbes got maybe 5min moar to roll, i think
1857095;1538444340;BingoBoingo;Cool
1857096;1538444390;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i assume hedgehogs on ?
1857097;1538444401;BingoBoingo;hedgehogs on, one per drive
1857098;1538444407;asciilifeform;ok
1857099;1538444413;asciilifeform;i was thinking 1 would also fit on bottom
1857100;1538444428;asciilifeform;hence bought 20pack
1857101;1538444444;BingoBoingo;Could be done, but not while fitting another drive in dulap
1857102;1538444459;asciilifeform;this is ok, stick'em on prior to emplacement
1857103;1538444467;asciilifeform;( and into A an' C if you can reach . )
1857104;1538444479;asciilifeform;also ok to power down A/C to do this, they are unoccupied
1857105;1538444494;asciilifeform;i want max hedgehog on these.
1857106;1538444543;BingoBoingo;Can reach, no need to power down to do this. Can't really power down safely at the A/C feed either. Individual lines are all D/C
1857107;1538444551;asciilifeform;lol
1857108;1538444560;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: next crate will contain usb extenders, so the 'dun fit 2' stops being issue
1857109;1538444718;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: he's got 40GB , loox like. so may have to come back in morning.
1857110;1538444734;asciilifeform;btw lobbes in case you care, it's almost all apache error log...
1857111;1538444755;asciilifeform;we will faithfully preserve it on new disk !
1857112;1538444786;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: unless you want to spend next 2 hrs in the bilge, go ahead an' sleep.
1857113;1538444997;BingoBoingo;Aite, pulling out. Still ping when it finishes. Will prolly be up a while tonight.
1857114;1538445001;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'ma go an' do eat/sleep-type things shortly, so lemme know if anyffing else need
1857115;1538445023;asciilifeform;if it's done before i turn in, will ping , aite.
1857116;1538445384;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=37 << Bimbo.Club - While you were, say you did
1857117;1538445579;asciilifeform;!Q later tell nicoleci s/to/too
1857118;1538445580;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1857119;1538445594;asciilifeform;( >1 pos )
1857120;1538447387;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://bingology.net/driveline.jpg
1857121;1538448184;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 404
1857122;1538448223;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Sorry, other site http://aaronrogier.net/driveline.jpg
1857123;1538448259;asciilifeform;neato
1857124;1538448271;asciilifeform;defo want on 2sides tho.
1857125;1538448583;mod6;oh nice, gonna put them heat-sinks on top and bottom 'eh?
1857126;1538448643;BingoBoingo;Right, second heatsinks going on when they make it into the RockChips
1857127;1538449854;mod6;Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home).  We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
1857128;1538454970;BingoBoingo;https://i.imgtc.com/BXAAdct.jpg
1857129;1538456779;BingoBoingo;Session keep alive packet not recieved: BingoBoingo to sleep
1857130;1538461856;ben_vulpes;taking mimisbrunnr down for a spell
1857131;1538463259;mircea_popescu;i never heard of obesity miscarriage before.
1857132;1538471144;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857131 -> afaik obesity does increase risk of miscarriage
1857133;1538471144;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 06:54 mircea_popescu: i never heard of obesity miscarriage before.
1857134;1538473494;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856931 -> today works anytime really, just let me know in the logs
1857135;1538473494;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 21:14 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , let BingoBoingo & asciilifeform know when is good day to take down yer units and copy contents to new drives.
1857136;1538473510;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, asciilifeform ^
1857137;1538473555;ben_vulpes;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2cESi/?raw=true << dns table update
1857138;1538473605;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857110 -> if it's anything like mine, it'll be mostly loud complaints from php because "time zone not set!!!" and similar (apparently php version on the RC is too new for its own good)
1857139;1538473605;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 01:45 asciilifeform: btw lobbes in case you care, it's almost all apache error log...
1857140;1538473723;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856937 -> yes, please; also yes, can leave the old disk plugged in to see when it dies, why not (iirc there should still be 1 usb2 empty slot on my RC as the other one has an FG)
1857141;1538473723;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 21:17 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mod6 , lobbes , also give signal re whether you want the newer iptables-enabled kernel to go on your boot sd , when we take the boxen down ( iirc we already did mod6's )
1857142;1538473769;diana_coman;the thing is though that at any rate, it won't get the same type of use as it did as main disk so I don't know whether much can be found out from that really
1857143;1538473770;ben_vulpes;those reluctant to diddle /etc/hosts without seeing signed material first may: curl --header 'Host: cascadianhacker.com' 216.151.13.77/dns_update.txt
1857144;1538473783;diana_coman;I suspect there might be more to find out from dissection of the thing
1857145;1538487502;mircea_popescu;i guess im behind the times in obstetrics.
1857146;1538488792;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes updatered, thx
1857147;1538489165;asciilifeform;!Q later tell BingoBoingo lobbes's drive ready to plug
1857148;1538489165;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1857149;1538489241;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Ty, headed over
1857150;1538489242;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: Sent 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> lobbes's drive ready to plug
1857151;1538489293;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: btw figure out when you want to do yours
1857152;1538489347;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857127 << month and a half... whatcha moving it with , mod6? oxcart ?
1857153;1538489347;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 03:10 mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home).  We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
1857154;1538489366;mod6;ben_vulpes: I am shutting down 'lovelace' (the second tbf node) now.
1857155;1538489391;mod6;I have also pulled '216.151.13.78' off of the Advertised Node list.
1857156;1538489422;mod6;asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is bringing this with him to texas.  He said he'd be able to have it up and running in a rack down there by mid-November.
1857157;1538489434;asciilifeform;aa rack not built yet. aite
1857158;1538489504;*;asciilifeform pictures ben_vulpes's texan fort
1857159;1538489863;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in the trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_2_ProcessBlock.txt
1857160;1538489879;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-27#1855101 -> it turns out Eulora actually needs precisely this since its communication protocol specifies different lengths of messages, hm
1857161;1538489879;a111;Logged on 2018-09-27 20:37 asciilifeform: yea i can't picture for what might need variable masses in production
1857162;1538489897;asciilifeform;diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851192
1857163;1538489897;a111;Logged on 2018-09-18 14:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the item originally for gossipd experimentations. udp gives a max practical packet length ( what it is , remains to be determined ) and if given proggy's protocol needs variably-sized ones, you can pad with rng.
1857164;1538489914;asciilifeform;afaik there is no practical reason to actually send variable-length udp.
1857165;1538489925;diana_coman;asciilifeform, clients pay for traffic though so dunno
1857166;1538489944;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i dun think there exists still on planet3 an isp that actually charges per-byte
1857167;1538489951;asciilifeform;( per TB -- yes. per byte afaik no )
1857168;1538489966;diana_coman;it's not the isp, lol; it's eulora-internal because client can choose how much traffic it generates
1857169;1538489976;diana_coman;but if you force it to pad everything to maxlen it's a bit iffy
1857170;1538490029;diana_coman;every time they simply ask for an object you force them to send over 2048 bytes, ugh
1857171;1538490052;diana_coman;there IS some padding, i.e. it's not entirely arbitrary lengths, no
1857172;1538490054;asciilifeform;diana_coman: a frame is a frame, short packets still occupy one,.
1857173;1538490058;diana_coman;but it's variable lengths..
1857174;1538490063;asciilifeform;i.e. it'll still take 1500.
1857175;1538490069;asciilifeform;even if nominal length is 3.
1857176;1538490076;mircea_popescu;diana_coman working on it.
1857177;1538490082;mircea_popescu;SPEC HAS EVOLVED MEANWHILE!
1857178;1538490098;asciilifeform;ultimately it's diana_coman's proggy, not mine, i can only recommend. imho fixed packets make the coad 9000x simpler, and simplify crapola filtration also. but if diana_coman's application absolutely gotta vary the lengths, then do it..
1857179;1538490122;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, cool; well, it's been 4 months being digested hopefully by everyone around so evolution makes sense!
1857180;1538490132;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1857181;1538490144;mircea_popescu;so far, productive activity, but only made it up to 3.
1857182;1538490144;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it certainly makes the code simpler! if only I could always choose by this criteria though...
1857183;1538490165;diana_coman;anyways, will wait to see the updates
1857184;1538490184;asciilifeform;diana_coman: given that you have rsa in there also, how do you intend to make'em shorter ? or is this strictly re the serpent payloads
1857185;1538490190;mircea_popescu;anyway, re "client pays for traffic" -- yes, but message traffic not packet traffic.
1857186;1538490208;diana_coman;asciilifeform, serpent payloads really; rsa is meant for single use when registering with server pretty much
1857187;1538490212;mircea_popescu;padding wouldn't cost in principle, except if crypto produced then entropy costs.
1857188;1538490221;mircea_popescu;but i expect can have client opt to pad with fixnum.
1857189;1538490223;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hm if this is so, then i have nfi why you'd want to try an' shorten packets
1857190;1538490239;diana_coman;asciilifeform, the above wasn't clear until now, it's clarified ...now
1857191;1538490242;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because the largest packet we ~need~ is 16kb
1857192;1538490244;diana_coman;so then hooray
1857193;1538490250;mircea_popescu;and forcing all packets 16kb may lose us on some routes.
1857194;1538490294;asciilifeform;well i did warn, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855322 , what else i can say.
1857195;1538490294;a111;Logged on 2018-09-28 15:12 asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage'
1857196;1538490307;mircea_popescu;here's the bojum, explained :
1857197;1538490323;asciilifeform;( if i were writing this proggy, i'd rather http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855329 . )
1857198;1538490323;a111;Logged on 2018-09-28 15:57 asciilifeform: imho if you want large messages, oughta have own fragger/reasmer, not the ??? in linux/ciscolade
1857199;1538490400;mircea_popescu;1. server must be able to acquire RSA key of client. 2. the rsa key of client will have to go in a rsa message, because they presumably don't have serpent keys agreed upon ; 3. the payload for one chunk of rsa key is 1960 bytes, fixed ; 4. the size of a key is 3.x such 1960 byte chunks, meaning 4 chunks. 5. the size of a 4 payload message is 16kb.
1857200;1538490436;mircea_popescu;6. if you pertmit this 16kb item be chunked, you basically rebuild the tcp ddos bs long discussed here. if it has to be in 1 piece, you can always use or discard on sight.
1857201;1538490469;mircea_popescu;so -- eulora MUST have a 16kb packet in its format.
1857202;1538490477;asciilifeform;i'd still rather reasm'em in the proggy itself, rather than baking in a perma-reliance on the linux nonsense. but i suppose is easy to say, but moar work to actually bake.
1857203;1538490482;mircea_popescu;now, if it also has 1 single size, that means the size of all packets is 16kb
1857204;1538490485;mircea_popescu;this seems nutty.
1857205;1538490500;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nevermind that. to re-asm you gotta keep chunks.
1857206;1538490510;mircea_popescu;how many chunks am i keeping and for how long ?
1857207;1538490517;asciilifeform;right but if you reasm in own proggy, the chunks actually carry the port # and origin ip.
1857208;1538490530;mircea_popescu;so ?
1857209;1538490538;asciilifeform;whereas if you rely on the udp fragger, only 1 in 4 chunks does, and the rest are not mechanically filtrable.
1857210;1538490551;mircea_popescu;what's "here's a list of 2mn unknown ips" buy me ?
1857211;1538490565;asciilifeform;that you can throw out obvious crapola
1857212;1538490580;asciilifeform;and that you can then use fyootoor fragless ip stack . is all.
1857213;1538490585;mircea_popescu;doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks.
1857214;1538490593;diana_coman;asciilifeform, but what's the problem with that? client sends and waits (for as long as it wants) for a reply; whenever it has enough of waiting...sends again; until it makes it
1857215;1538490620;mircea_popescu;this must-have magical packet of 16kb is extremely rare -- basically only sent when new client making new account.
1857216;1538490626;mircea_popescu;if it has to retry a few times not end of world.
1857217;1538490630;asciilifeform;diana_coman: imho i described the problem with using linux's fragger/defragger in sufficient detail, would rather not clutter the log with a repeat
1857218;1538490637;mircea_popescu;meanwhile if every single 13 byte posupdate takes 16kb... that's insanity.
1857219;1538490639;mod6;ben_vulpes: bitcoind has been stopped, and lovelace has been shutdown with `shutdown -h now`.  Feel free to pack it up whenever you're ready.  Thanks.
1857220;1538490734;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: realize that the linux frag reassembler doesn't give you anything near GB buffer
1857221;1538490751;asciilifeform;once you have any substantial traffic density, it'll simply start dropping.
1857222;1538490756;mircea_popescu;nobody here but you is discussing that.
1857223;1538490760;asciilifeform;( it's a coupla kB typically )
1857224;1538490784;mircea_popescu;my problem is that i can't ~not~ have 2 sizes of udp packets.
1857225;1538490800;mircea_popescu;diana_coman do you see a way out of this ?
1857226;1538490910;asciilifeform;the way i'd do it, is to have e.g. 1400 byte packets , and they're authenticated (e.g. client gets seekrit 512bit turd, and keccak(turd + payload) is a field in those 1400) , and ~then~ there is a flag for whether the packet is part of a e.g. 8 byte sequence that gotta reasm, or not .
1857227;1538490935;asciilifeform;i.e. internal defragger .
1857228;1538490945;asciilifeform;err, not 8 byte, 8 packet
1857229;1538490948;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and the attacker sends you sequence-1 packets. and you hold them. and as i said, "doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks."
1857230;1538490957;asciilifeform;attacker can't send anyffing unless he has a valid key
1857231;1538490962;mircea_popescu;i am not so interested in holding on to chunks of future.
1857232;1538490967;mircea_popescu;jesus.
1857233;1538490969;asciilifeform;( he can send, but it gets tossed in O(1) )
1857234;1538490999;mircea_popescu;looky, we're discontinuing this discussion, because you've not taken the time to familiarize with priors and i don't judge it's worth your time to do so, or mine to make you do so.
1857235;1538491026;asciilifeform;my observation is strictly in re linux defragger gives you no way to filter, whereas hand-sewn -- would. but it is not my intention to prevent folx from pissing on erry possible electric fence, i'ma leave it there.
1857236;1538491118;asciilifeform;and pretty sure i grasp the priors. for instance, the proggy i originally wrote the udp thing for, operated in 64kB chunks.
1857237;1538491459;asciilifeform;rereading http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857215 -- if you actually gotta take 'new rsa key' from allcomers, and there is no way to have'em know a seekrit bitstring prior , then yes afaik it is impossible to do better than mircea_popescu's algo. ( it is unclear to me what's to prevent enemy from swamping your system with new acct requests and giving you 9000 TB of rsa keys to store, but possibly i missed a detail )
1857238;1538491459;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 14:30 mircea_popescu: this must-have magical packet of 16kb is extremely rare -- basically only sent when new client making new account.
1857239;1538491467;mircea_popescu;right!
1857240;1538491485;mircea_popescu;see ? it's not that i hate you, but we gotta talk of the same things to talk to any sort of productive end.
1857241;1538491514;asciilifeform;no i get it
1857242;1538491560;mircea_popescu;here's the bojum with that : soner or later, you gotta meet new people. the DEFINITION of "new people" is "no way to secret prior". so...
1857243;1538491567;asciilifeform;right
1857244;1538491585;asciilifeform;i'd have a separate box for new acct regs, that eats rsagrams..
1857245;1538491592;mircea_popescu;server as it stands now doesn't talk to any new people, hence the "talk to mp" thing in client.
1857246;1538491594;asciilifeform;( or at least separate nic )
1857247;1538491664;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the problem degrades gracefully : even if you do have shared rsa key, client sometimes wants to send serpent keys (which go to rsa) and some other times wants to send plain cruft (goes to serpent). so two sizes again
1857248;1538491672;mircea_popescu;i can't have as many interfaces as packet types for crying out loud.
1857249;1538491704;asciilifeform;as i currently understand, the only non-negotiably 'heavy' one is the new acct packet
1857250;1538491714;asciilifeform;so there are 2 fundamental types
1857251;1538491751;asciilifeform;( the serpent packets are constrained to simply multiples of 128 )
1857252;1538491825;mircea_popescu;well, rsa packets are 4096 bits multiple ; serpent packets are multiples of 128. rsa key exchange is 16kb fix.
1857253;1538491857;asciilifeform;so this'd easily cut into 1 process that eats always 4096bit, and another that eats 16kb.
1857254;1538491866;asciilifeform;( serpent can pad into 4096 )
1857255;1538491936;mircea_popescu;yes but i can't possibly turn http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855277 into 4096 bit and live.
1857256;1538491936;a111;Logged on 2018-09-28 05:07 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855218 >> players in sight of each other, all getting position updates for all others is *THE* central scaling 'n squared problem' for mmo. 20 byte position sent 4 times per second to 100 players is 8k/s per player. and 4 updates per second is really not enough for good playability when you factor in the round trip lag. 15/s is less draconian (many games send 30-60). 100 players gathered with 15 updates
1857257;1538491943;mircea_popescu;heck, im currently proud i took that 20 down to 13.
1857258;1538491979;asciilifeform;4096bit is 512byte, you're sending 1500 frame always, even if your nominal packet is 3bytes long. simply how ethernet worx.
1857259;1538491993;asciilifeform;i.e. the space saving is illusory.
1857260;1538492035;asciilifeform;this is that 'bit-packing variables' thing all over again.
1857261;1538492069;mircea_popescu;jesus christ you're right aren't you.
1857262;1538492092;asciilifeform;aha! i dun hate mircea_popescu's algo because his name starts with m!111 i simply rtfm'd...
1857263;1538492116;asciilifeform;( and peeked at what actually moves down my wire.. )
1857264;1538492139;asciilifeform;anyway i'ma bbl, meat.
1857265;1538492185;mircea_popescu;it's funny how "optimization" lures the mind.
1857266;1538492915;Mocky;if you accept 16k new-acct packets seems just as easy to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857229 but further, if you rely on external frag-reassm it's even easier for attacker to prevent you from accepting *any* new account packets
1857267;1538492915;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 14:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the attacker sends you sequence-1 packets. and you hold them. and as i said, "doesn't take so much work to ask me to hold 16gb of chunks."
1857268;1538493047;Mocky;frag reassembly in-program can use a buffer of specified size, just as is done externally. so excess chunk memory overhead is known up front
1857269;1538493884;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857260 I see anything like this in the logs, do you have a link?
1857270;1538493884;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 14:53 asciilifeform: this is that 'bit-packing variables' thing all over again.
1857271;1538493893;Mocky;*don't see*
1857272;1538494587;mircea_popescu;Mocky http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851193 or http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-22#1742261 or http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738259 or etc.
1857273;1538494587;a111;Logged on 2018-09-18 14:27 mircea_popescu: what it is is certainly <1kb say. wasting the occasional portion of a kb is not so unlike wasting the occasional portion of a 64 bit register to represent a boolean value.
1857274;1538494587;a111;Logged on 2017-11-22 23:03 mircea_popescu: it's bullshit all the way down, "the 4096 bit block gets cut into 16 sub blocks to be fit into rotorizers that cut each block into 64 bits and process with their 4 bit s boxes". because we're from the fucking cartoons.
1857275;1538494587;a111;Logged on 2017-11-14 20:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform typical pc has the following situation : 64 bit registers, 128 bit memory, 1024 bit disk sectors, 64 mb video buffers, and atop sitting a drunk driver who thinks 8 bits are a byte.
1857276;1538494683;Mocky;ah ok, thx
1857277;1538494830;mircea_popescu;there's more, somewhere i say "meanwhile people figured out the complexity's not worth the saving" and etc. recurrent topic.
1857278;1538494932;diana_coman;Mocky, if I get this right you argue that it's better to do frag internally because can't trust externally to not fuck up the line entirely as attack vector?
1857279;1538494950;Mocky;yes
1857280;1538494991;mircea_popescu;um.
1857281;1538495141;Mocky;e.g. attacker floods with packet frags prevents legitimate frags from ever being reassembled, instead silently dropped, server is none the wiser
1857282;1538495154;mircea_popescu;there are no frags.
1857283;1538495168;diana_coman;he is talking of the new rsa packets that are biggest
1857284;1538495176;diana_coman;so will get presumably fragged
1857285;1538495179;mircea_popescu;iirc 20kb packets made it over test
1857286;1538495180;Mocky;16k packet -> 1500 MTU
1857287;1538495186;diana_coman;but honestly I don't see that to be such a huge problem
1857288;1538495195;mircea_popescu;Mocky 16kbits, you realise.
1857289;1538495210;Mocky;nope, missed that
1857290;1538495225;mircea_popescu;4x rsa chunk. 2048 bytes.
1857291;1538495254;mircea_popescu;and in our tests, we saw unfragged 20-50kB packets.
1857292;1538495282;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, uhm, they made it through - presumably fragged though?
1857293;1538495283;mircea_popescu;ie, mtu is two things : no smaller frame shall issue from interface ; and larger packets MAY (but don't have to) travel as multiple frames.
1857294;1538495312;mircea_popescu;diana_coman well, possibly. iirc we didn't specifically check for that.
1857295;1538495339;diana_coman;precisely; I think that in principle there is a possibility of that "attack" but I fail to see that it's worth much really
1857296;1538495342;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there are no frames bigger than 1500 ( aside from exotic lans )
1857297;1538495372;diana_coman;so basically what, for as long as attacker can keep flooding , presumably no new accounts although there might still be some that make it through?
1857298;1538495373;asciilifeform;your heavies got fragged & reasmed by receiver
1857299;1538495379;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so interface silently and timely reassembled 50kb packet out of 30 fragments ?
1857300;1538495389;asciilifeform;yes
1857301;1538495396;mircea_popescu;pretty good.
1857302;1538495409;mircea_popescu;anyway, i have no intention to deal with udp flood at gameserver level.
1857303;1538495414;Mocky;I'd expect frag and auto reassemble to work well in low volume conditions
1857304;1538495415;asciilifeform;try it with saturated receiver tho.
1857305;1538495440;asciilifeform;Mocky: errything worx great with quiet volume.
1857306;1538495452;mircea_popescu;of course... if we used smaller rsa keys we could fit in the mtu...
1857307;1538495477;diana_coman;eulora-sized rsa, hm
1857308;1538495487;mircea_popescu;but i mean... it's for a reason, not just cuz bored.
1857309;1538495507;mircea_popescu;i mean, really, 2048, not 1460 ? written in heavens or what ?
1857310;1538495642;mircea_popescu;suppose i make the rsa packet 1498 bytes. this then means 2996 bit rsa. problem ?
1857311;1538495773;Mocky;well including udp header, like 1470 to 1480 of payload available
1857312;1538495781;asciilifeform;afaik it's not unlike diff b/w a 25 and 50 megatonne nyook
1857313;1538495807;asciilifeform;i.e. large on paper, but ~sams physical effect
1857314;1538495815;asciilifeform;*same
1857315;1538495935;diana_coman;from a practical point of view it does mean that Eulora doesn't use directly TMSR RSA keys though
1857316;1538496519;mircea_popescu;im not sure anyone'd want to use his main key for this anyway
1857317;1538496561;mircea_popescu;but yes, as far as anyone knows 2048 bit keys perfectly safe, now and for the foreseable future (this isn't a comment on koch faux-pgp, which unsafe at any length as well documented in logs qntra and so on).
1857318;1538496570;diana_coman;yes; anyway it's basically a knob to turn, not a big issue in itself
1857319;1538496578;asciilifeform;fwiw asciilifeform is still sitting on top of a 2048b main key
1857320;1538496589;mircea_popescu;i'm going to re-write the rewrite of comms protocol with this new paradigm.
1857321;1538496590;asciilifeform;( will move when finally kerosene poured on gpg )
1857322;1538496629;mircea_popescu;let's calculate this precisely. so what size is my actual payload here, 1468 reliably ?
1857323;1538496691;mircea_popescu;( and btw diana_coman it's entirely possible this will mean republic might well inherit the format, seeing how the problem we are dealing with isn't of our own make -- others will run into it too.)
1857324;1538496724;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 1500(ethernet frame) - 20 byte (ip header) - 8 byte == 1472
1857325;1538496758;asciilifeform;( 1472 remains for programmable payload )
1857326;1538496762;mircea_popescu;am i absurd in wanting to start from 1499 rather than 1500 ?
1857327;1538496802;asciilifeform;i can't think of why, but it dun do any harm afaik
1857328;1538496812;mircea_popescu;sure it do harm, you lose on some bytes.
1857329;1538496814;asciilifeform;the nic will simply insert a 0 octet
1857330;1538496821;asciilifeform;well yes, in that sense.
1857331;1538496849;mircea_popescu;alright then, ima put 1472 bytes helo packet ; meaning 2944 bit rsa keys.
1857332;1538496857;Mocky;1472 is what i've used in the past
1857333;1538496876;asciilifeform;Mocky: it's the theoretical max udp-over-ethernet aha
1857334;1538496894;asciilifeform;( not taking into consideration weirdo lans with 'jumbo' nics etc )
1857335;1538496964;mircea_popescu;diana_coman 2944 bit rsa keys, meaning 1384 bit usable message space in the rsa packet ? with oaep and everything ?
1857336;1538497077;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 2944 / 1384
1857337;1538497079;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 2.12716763006
1857338;1538497161;mircea_popescu;holy shit, what if i can shave it down to 3x ?!
1857339;1538497181;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 1472/3
1857340;1538497181;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 490.666666667
1857341;1538497183;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857302 >> still will be filtering incoming UDP by known IPs and preferred serpent keys though anyway, correct?
1857342;1538497183;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 15:50 mircea_popescu: anyway, i have no intention to deal with udp flood at gameserver level.
1857343;1538497193;mircea_popescu;Mocky nope, by size.
1857344;1538497213;mircea_popescu;rsa-size and serpent-size packets handled, rest discarded (and sources punished)
1857345;1538497281;Mocky;ok but if size matches still have to attempt decryption even if contains garbage?
1857346;1538497290;mircea_popescu;yes.
1857347;1538497316;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 1472/128
1857348;1538497317;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 11.5
1857349;1538497344;asciilifeform;i expect decryptions will be the principal cpu expense of running a rsatronic box. at least until the fyootoor day of fpga etc
1857350;1538497361;mircea_popescu;possibru
1857351;1538497367;asciilifeform;fortunately they parallelize linearly
1857352;1538497373;mircea_popescu;the thing is -- new accounts handled "as resources permit" anyway, so...
1857353;1538497376;asciilifeform;( farm out to as many cores as you like )
1857354;1538497551;mircea_popescu;ok, so this back of a digital envelope seems to suggest we want : 1. fixed size 1470 byte rsa packets, made to work with 3920-bit rsa (of which i presume the useful message size to be 1872 bit, diana_coman plox to confirm maffs ?). such a packet has then 1696 bits spare for e and bullshit.
1857355;1538497567;mircea_popescu;2. fixed size 1408 byte serpent packets.
1857356;1538497775;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, 1872 useful bits in 3920-bit rsa, confirmed
1857357;1538498185;mircea_popescu;is serpent 128 bits or 128 bytes ?
1857358;1538498280;mircea_popescu;bits so then
1857359;1538498286;mircea_popescu;2. fixed size 1472 byte serpent packets.
1857360;1538498312;diana_coman;bits, yes
1857361;1538498326;mircea_popescu;yuppers. 1470 vs 1472, pretty as can be.
1857362;1538498374;diana_coman;ha, quite
1857363;1538498893;mircea_popescu;in other very sads, the new p.bvulpes machine is VERY fucking slow.
1857364;1538499101;mircea_popescu;* About to connect() to p.bvulpes.com port 80 (#0)
1857365;1538499101;mircea_popescu;*   Trying 51.15.42.105... Connection timed out
1857366;1538501331;ben_vulpes;that's odd, i'll look
1857367;1538501352;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes nah, no need, by now i mostly suspect my route was bad.
1857368;1538501360;ben_vulpes;i was going to ask for a traceroute
1857369;1538501372;ben_vulpes;mod6: ack
1857370;1538501680;asciilifeform;lobbes: plox to confirm when satisfied that your rk worx correctly
1857371;1538502790;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=38 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/28/2018
1857372;1538502889;asciilifeform;'Asciilifeform would never recommend the use of 'rsa chips' as they work with only 'toy' key lengths, work in one direction, and have to be manually transported' << agh what
1857373;1538502909;asciilifeform;~pigeons~ manually transported, nicoleci
1857374;1538503088;mircea_popescu;!!up nicoleci
1857375;1538503089;deedbot;nicoleci voiced for 30 minutes.
1857376;1538503117;mircea_popescu;meanwhile @birdcage, "<nicoleci> im getting so frusterated with these logs <mircea_popescu> yssat ? <nicoleci> i understand every 45th line"
1857377;1538503139;asciilifeform;lol i wouldn't have guessed that it'd be ~that~ line..
1857378;1538503146;asciilifeform;i thought pigeon were universal.
1857379;1538503156;mircea_popescu;she didn't go to kindergarten.
1857380;1538503175;asciilifeform;( my local ww1 aviation museum has entire glass case of stuffed 'famous' carrier pigeons. so they defo know about'em in usa... )
1857381;1538503205;mircea_popescu;chick's injun, they got their own schools.
1857382;1538503215;asciilifeform;same place where they have the bed the wrights slept in, the shitter they shat in, etc
1857383;1538503224;asciilifeform;lolk
1857384;1538503485;nicoleci;im not going to make excuses for not connecting the pigeon talk, but no fucking clue what http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855365 means
1857385;1538503485;a111;Logged on 2018-09-28 16:21 asciilifeform: and i'ma never recommend to anyone the use of heathen 'rsa chips'. not even because they all, without exception, work with only 'toy' key lengths, but because srsly wtf.
1857386;1538503486;lobbesbot;nicoleci: Sent 16 hours and 5 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> s/to/too
1857387;1538503558;mircea_popescu;nicoleci rsa keys are useless when the key is short. do you understand how rsa works ?
1857388;1538503585;nicoleci;mircea_popescu: not at all.
1857389;1538503595;mircea_popescu;alright. can you tell me the prime factors of the number 6 ?
1857390;1538504207;nicoleci;ah 1,2,3,6
1857391;1538504224;mircea_popescu;ok. 1 and 6 we ignore, as they're trivial for our exercise.
1857392;1538504244;mircea_popescu;now, can you tell me the non-trivial prime factors of 221 ? (but without looking anywhere online).
1857393;1538504329;nicoleci;lol, no
1857394;1538504360;mircea_popescu;can you tell me what's 13 * 17 ?
1857395;1538504410;nicoleci;221
1857396;1538504446;mircea_popescu;right. this is then the rsa problem : it is relatively easy to multiply prime numbers ; it is exceedingly difficult to get them back out of the multiplicated soup
1857397;1538504496;mircea_popescu;this is especially true the larger the prime numbers become. rsa uses this disparity to produce an undefeatable encryptio scheme. the two prime factors (13, 17) are the private (ie, secret) key. their product (221) is the public key.
1857398;1538504519;mircea_popescu;some clever bits of math permit one to encrypt a message with the use of that 221 so that only he who knows 13 * 17 =221 can ever get it back out.
1857399;1538504544;nicoleci;ahh i see
1857400;1538504558;mircea_popescu;yw.
1857401;1538504594;BingoBoingo;Ah, slave priviledge in action. Countless ninjashoguns weep as the combination of right behavior and right parts allows the priviledged to learn in hallowed logs.
1857402;1538504622;BingoBoingo;#WoTInAction
1857403;1538504641;nicoleci;yeah thanks, Master. privilege in knowledge, torture in a chromebook
1857404;1538504932;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/ << republished to significant change ; diana_coman Mocky asciilifeform an' whoever else may be interested. comments welcome!
1857405;1538505043;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/university-of-brighton-takes-ambiguous-position-on-program-supporting-coed-to-gentlemen-connections/ << Qntra - University Of Brighton Takes Ambiguous Position On Program Supporting Coed To Gentlemen Connections
1857406;1538505068;mircea_popescu;ahaha
1857407;1538505104;mircea_popescu;the 1 in 6 far exceeds the 1 in 20 or so females worth the fucking in ~anyone's estimation.
1857408;1538505169;BingoBoingo;And yet 100% of them are only 19 once
1857409;1538505431;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile from other mines: "I’m active in supporting LGBT causes. My boyfriend recently said that “this whole LGBT thing has gone way too far” and that he’s no longer sure what to think about same-sex marriage, even though he had thought he supported it. Worse, he said that maybe the original civil rights movement went too far, and perhaps businesses should be allowed to racially discriminate if they want to. In fairnes
1857410;1538505431;BingoBoingo;s, that was in response to me pointing to that as a precedent for LGBT rights, but I’m not sure that makes it better. I’m just aghast. How can I make him see how wrong he is?"
1857411;1538505439;*;asciilifeform loox at mircea_popescu's item..
1857412;1538505503;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: is the 20 may date intentional ?
1857413;1538505529;Mocky;original pub date
1857414;1538505536;asciilifeform;aaaah edited aite
1857415;1538505595;mircea_popescu;right.
1857416;1538505670;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo doh. let's check back with the aghast lonely hearts club when we're discussing how business can keep slaves (ie, them) if they feel like it.
1857417;1538505679;asciilifeform;'n*(4*int64 + int32) (32 bytes each key followed by a 4 byte ID calculated as the keccak hash of the key itself)' << unless i misread, how does one get a 4byte output from keccak ?
1857418;1538505720;mircea_popescu;by setting it to spit out 4 byte output ?
1857419;1538505788;asciilifeform;does diana_coman's keccak do this ? ( aside from the q of what does a 32bit hash output win, it aint exactly hard to collide into a desired 32bit regardless of how you make hash algo.. )
1857420;1538505805;mircea_popescu;but this'd be a collision inside an encrypted packet.
1857421;1538505817;asciilifeform;so moar of a checksum ?
1857422;1538505823;mircea_popescu;im really only using it as an adhoc crc ; possibly should either get rid of it altogether, or implement a proper ec.
1857423;1538505830;asciilifeform;aaah so not asked to be resistant, aite
1857424;1538505835;mircea_popescu;ya
1857425;1538505843;asciilifeform;i'd use ordinary crc32 for such item, much cheaper cpuwise
1857426;1538505856;mircea_popescu;in ~principle~ eve can't even know what serpent keys either server or client are using.
1857427;1538505860;asciilifeform;right
1857428;1538505869;mircea_popescu;but yes, i am seriousl;y considering this.
1857429;1538505885;*;asciilifeform reads the other moving parts...
1857430;1538505921;asciilifeform;'text, consisting of int32 (keccak hash of top level itemxviii)' << i assume ditto
1857431;1538505935;mircea_popescu;anyways, i shall now torture girls @ beach. will read all comments and everything tonite.
1857432;1538505939;asciilifeform;and in 4.8 same
1857433;1538505941;asciilifeform;aite
1857434;1538506018;asciilifeform;i dun get how 'int8 (equal to 18364757930599072545' worx
1857435;1538506023;asciilifeform;on my planet, 'int8' means 8 bits
1857436;1538506036;asciilifeform;int16 - 16, int32 -- 32, int64 -- 64
1857437;1538506104;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat; will come back to this item
1857438;1538506406;diana_coman;asciilifeform, keccak can spit out as many or as few bits as you want it to, not sure what is you q there re keccak
1857439;1538506454;diana_coman;your*
1857440;1538506589;diana_coman;specifically, bit-level version gives bit-level precision so one can ask for as many bits as they want; workhorse byte-level keccak implementation works at byte-level so it will spit out as many *bytes* as you ask for (see http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/08/eucrypt-chapter-9-byte-order-and-bit-disorder-in-keccak/#selection-193.1-197.51 )
1857441;1538507117;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857391 -> lol, they are also just... not prime
1857442;1538507117;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 18:17 mircea_popescu: ok. 1 and 6 we ignore, as they're trivial for our exercise.
1857443;1538508236;diana_coman;http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-126805 - waiting in the queue
1857444;1538509068;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857438 << ok i wasn't sure whether diana_coman's keccak knew how to output arbitrary bitness. but my other point was that a 32bit hash may as well be crc32, there can be no notion of collision resistance when yer output is 32b.
1857445;1538509068;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 18:53 diana_coman: asciilifeform, keccak can spit out as many or as few bits as you want it to, not sure what is you q there re keccak
1857446;1538509158;asciilifeform;diana_coman: can you clarify re the 'int8' thing plox ?
1857447;1538509458;diana_coman;asciilifeform, int8 is indeed meant to be on 8 bits so no idea what that thing there is ; fwiw I added it to my comment on the article with ref to your q here in the logs too because I'm puzzled by it too
1857448;1538509503;diana_coman;re collision yes, it's clearly not collision-resistant
1857449;1538509555;diana_coman;the eucrypt keccak implementation uses an out parameter for output and so it will fill whatever the caller provides
1857450;1538512056;ben_vulpes;http://archive.fo/WeQ7Q << ruralia continues to deliver lulz: "booby trapped wheelchair", "hot tub attached to tripwire" "elder abuse"
1857451;1538512180;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: poor idjit. could've set up proper dynamite, not as if he could sizzle in electric chair twice.
1857452;1538512260;asciilifeform;'.410-guage shotgun pellet' lol.
1857453;1538512283;ben_vulpes;sad fate to be remembered for failing to take out agents of the imperium given ~unlimited time and inclination to prepare.
1857454;1538512293;asciilifeform;Fuck Moar Cousins, i guess..
1857455;1538512363;ben_vulpes;the many sleepless nights of the rural amphet didn't help.
1857456;1538512449;asciilifeform;between rotgut, dope, 6 generations of fucked cousin, mcfood -- not much chance left for brain
1857457;1538514253;deedbot;http://bingology.net/2018/10/02/haiku-r1beta1-thoughts/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Haiku R1/beta1 Thoughts
1857458;1538514562;asciilifeform;http://bingology.net/2018/10/02/haiku-r1beta1-thoughts/comment-page-1/#comment-504 << BingoBoingo
1857459;1538515287;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: replied
1857460;1538515365;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: loox like they lifted various drivers from freebsd, since i last saw
1857461;1538515421;BingoBoingo;Other parts as well.
1857462;1538515461;asciilifeform;so in effect it's freebsd but with an oddball incompatible thing in place of x11
1857463;1538515482;asciilifeform;sorta like an open sores crapple.
1857464;1538515487;BingoBoingo;Well, the microkernel thing is different
1857465;1538515504;asciilifeform;still massive ball o' C
1857466;1538515513;asciilifeform;hence 'like crapple'
1857467;1538515531;BingoBoingo;Sure. Its the sort of thing you'd stick in a lobby to let people check the weather.
1857468;1538515552;BingoBoingo;Or throw on a video playing box
1857469;1538515556;asciilifeform;i'd stick a kernel that dun crash on these..
1857470;1538515624;asciilifeform;and ugggh c++ kernel...
1857471;1538515633;asciilifeform;( https://github.com/haiku/haiku/tree/master/src/system/kernel << behold and shudder )
1857472;1538515658;BingoBoingo;ugh
1857473;1538515696;asciilifeform;reminds me of 'reactos' ( another oddball 'man alone' item; believe or not : attempt to open sores re-create... winblowz )
1857474;1538515936;BingoBoingo;The big difference between Haiku and ReactOS is in Haiku spreading works (TM)(R). Reactos hasn't made it that far yet.
1857475;1538516026;asciilifeform;spreading worx pretty easily when you lift all of the iron-specific C hairballs from existing open sores
1857476;1538516030;asciilifeform;the q is, what is gained thereby
1857477;1538516170;BingoBoingo;novelty
1857478;1538516333;asciilifeform;possibly i find novelty 'for sake of novelty' to not be auto-attractive; but imho these folx took the same baccilae that made microshit what it is ( cpp kernel, kernelized gui, 'desktopization' ) and somehow supposed that it'd add up to different result than microshit's..
1857479;1538516360;asciilifeform;( and on top of this imported the worst gnarl from freebsd... )
1857480;1538516449;asciilifeform;seems like there's even 1990s liquishit from the original 'beos' in there.
1857481;1538516509;BingoBoingo;Well, it isn't novelty for the sake of novelty. Novelty for the sake of highlighting how broken Ubuntu is.
1857482;1538516536;BingoBoingo;This piece of weird with all of its flaws... still works better than Ubuntu
1857483;1538516550;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: even win10 loox pretty good when laid next to shituntu.
1857484;1538516559;asciilifeform;on just about erry metric..
1857485;1538516609;BingoBoingo;Never tried it myself
1857486;1538516628;asciilifeform;wasn't an invitation to try it, lol. but statement of phakt.
1857487;1538516653;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i strongly suspect that a box that smoothly runs the haiku thing will also run freebsd..
1857488;1538516674;trinque;huh, I ran one of the early x86 Be versions for a bit, didn't hate.
1857489;1538516694;asciilifeform;trinque: i dun hate. but gotta point out what it is.
1857490;1538516699;trinque;but yes, can't disagree with asciilifeform
1857491;1538516711;BingoBoingo;It ran openbsd fine, runs a linux fine now, FreeBSD was flakey last time I tried it on this one
1857492;1538516725;asciilifeform;at least terry davis was straightforward about not having iron drivers.
1857493;1538516760;asciilifeform;he refrained from importing world's 2nd gnarliest shitstack.
1857494;1538516829;asciilifeform;i favour folx who are honest, 'i dun have drivers', over gabriel_laddels
1857495;1538516908;BingoBoingo;Well, Uncle Terry is the Saint everyone thought Linus was
1857496;1538516916;trinque;pbuh
1857497;1538517030;BingoBoingo;Terry didn't let his daughter's feelz get in the way of his cause
1857498;1538522668;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i suppose that's 1 way to 'saint' -- skipping straight to face to face with odin..
1857499;1538522688;BingoBoingo;TempleOS does exactly as advertised
1857500;1538522718;BingoBoingo;And now terry in in Valhala for it
1857501;1538522783;*;BingoBoingo curious if gabriel ever got that amputation
1857502;1538522804;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_2_moar_ProcessBlock.txt << caught up..
1857503;1538522813;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: for all i know he got head amputation.
1857504;1538522871;BingoBoingo;Or maybe got adlai'd into a rehab
1857505;1538522885;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: is 186.50.24.80 , castle BingoBoingostein ?
1857506;1538522987;BingoBoingo;It doesn't appear to be at the moment, but it could have been
1857507;1538522995;asciilifeform;aah dynamic
1857508;1538522996;asciilifeform;aite
1857509;1538523039;asciilifeform;( i have dynamic here also, for some reason local fuckheads want 2x the dough to make static. but it changes 1-2x / year, thus far i live with it )
1857510;1538523105;BingoBoingo;Here dynamic means dynamic
1857511;1538523203;BingoBoingo;It's also possible there's another trb node I haven't put my own eyes on running on a residential connection in this country
1857512;1538523216;asciilifeform;i've been thinking i oughta conjure up moar trb nodez, but erry time i sit down and look to do it, end up thinking 'why give money to heathen derps'. but on other hand it dun do much good to put 9000 nodes all in pizarro. but to which heathen can give moneys without retching..
1857513;1538523323;asciilifeform;trinque's asian noad seems to be well-behaved
1857514;1538523338;asciilifeform;but it for same reason as stated earlier it wouldn't do so much good if i put a noad in same place
1857515;1538523362;asciilifeform;so presently i end up shelving the idea erry time it makes circle round my conveyor
1857516;1538523476;asciilifeform;sooo if anybody ( mircea_popescu ? diana_coman ? ) knows of some place that 1) isn't complete shit 2) doesn't have a trb noad living there yet -- plox to write in.
1857517;1538523504;asciilifeform;( ideally : on some ~continent~ that dun have one yet, imho )
1857518;1538523551;asciilifeform;diana_coman: do you have one back in 'old blightey' ? or know of a place there where i oughta put one
1857519;1538523557;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Have an eta on when to do the diana_coman switch?
1857520;1538523566;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: how about nao.
1857521;1538523580;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Aite, lemme put pants on
1857522;1538523594;BingoBoingo;And finish this balcony coffee
1857523;1538523610;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'ma meatspace for ~20min, should give you enuff time for leg
1857524;1538523655;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: when you get to the dc, feel free to pull lobbes's drive from dulap ( label it ) and insert 1) first, diana_coman's 2) 30sec later, the new
1857525;1538524862;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ping me in #p when ready.
1857526;1538527047;asciilifeform;!Q later tell diana_coman your rk is redisked! and running; you may want to stand up yer www server (iirc it doesn't run on boot)
1857527;1538527048;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1857528;1538527091;asciilifeform;diana_coman , lobbes : your old drives are currently in dulap, lemme know when you're ready to have'em reformatted ( so your boxen dun try an' boot from'em instead of the primary ) and reissued to you as secondary disks.
1857529;1538527109;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i think this is all for today in the bilge
1857530;1538527119;BingoBoingo;Aite, coming up
1857531;1538527124;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo !
1857532;1538527132;asciilifeform;a+++ as usual.
1857533;1538527710;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857370 << I can confirm rk is working. ty!
1857534;1538527710;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 17:34 asciilifeform: lobbes: plox to confirm when satisfied that your rk worx correctly
1857535;1538527712;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857138 << I can also confirm that this was exaaactly what was in my 40gb error log.. oof (btw ty asciilifeform for teh heads-up)
1857536;1538527712;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 09:46 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857110 -> if it's anything like mine, it'll be mostly loud complaints from php because "time zone not set!!!" and similar (apparently php version on the RC is too new for its own good)
1857537;1538527720;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1857538;1538527746;asciilifeform;oh btw, lobbes & diana_coman , dun forget to set your rk's clocks.
1857539;1538527750;*;asciilifeform genuinely bbl
1857540;1538532330;BingoBoingo;tyvm
1857541;1538533437;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857528 << forgot to respond to this, but you have my a-ok to reformat old drive. and thank you gentlemen for the smooth swap
1857542;1538533437;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 00:38 asciilifeform: diana_coman , lobbes : your old drives are currently in dulap, lemme know when you're ready to have'em reformatted ( so your boxen dun try an' boot from'em instead of the primary ) and reissued to you as secondary disks.
1857543;1538533445;lobbes;(obligatory pizarro pitch to log readers: where else can you have 100% context on -why- service is being done on your box, as well as watch it unfold real-time? Compare and contrast with, say, this example from heathenlandia (Edis)  >> http://archive.is/NVpIR)
1857544;1538535660;mircea_popescu;ikr!
1857545;1538535829;mircea_popescu;the incredible transparency they got going is actually a very strong selling point
1857546;1538535842;mircea_popescu;just needs packaging & being market communicated.
1857547;1538536717;trinque;"we slay incas" while cute, communicates nothing except "you're not in the in-group"
1857548;1538536759;trinque;oughta say something about why the fuck someone wants a republican ISP
1857549;1538537981;asciilifeform;trinque: yea the inca thing is placeholder
1857550;1538538022;asciilifeform;trinque: the text to answer 'wai republican isp' exists, unfortunately it's a coupla hundr MB, aka.. the l0gz
1857551;1538538040;asciilifeform;if can think of a way to conpress!
1857552;1538538071;asciilifeform;( pretty hard, imho, to even begin in language heathens might understand.. )
1857553;1538538082;asciilifeform;*compress
1857554;1538538165;trinque;I'd lean hard on the "we're humans" thing, communicate that
1857555;1538538174;trinque;somebody wants to know what makes an actual human later, great for him
1857556;1538538274;trinque;i.e. there's this fine gentleman BingoBoingo actually in the bowls of the machine, steadfastly giving a shit.
1857557;1538538310;trinque;polymath madman assembling world's only sane ARM hosting, etc
1857558;1538538377;BingoBoingo;Condensing these logs into marketing is a thing being pondered
1857559;1538538518;*;BingoBoingo returns from doing the necessary work of walking the beach at night and tormenting the Peruana by reporting how incredibly safe and secure it was
1857560;1538539985;mircea_popescu;conpress lel
1857561;1538540571;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo here's a +1 : i return from the beach also! took there, inter alia, girly whom i bought a perfectly see through, 50% of surface holes, inch-over-cunt-if-upright "dress" which i authoritatively declared to be "her bathing suit", last week. and told her she'll have to wear it at the beach. and she fretted over this wearing of this peculiar bathing suit. so today the day came, and she stepped on the beach, and the ne
1857562;1538540572;mircea_popescu;xt words out of my mouth were...
1857563;1538540576;mircea_popescu;"take that dress off".
1857564;1538540608;BingoBoingo;JAJAJAJAJAJAJA
1857565;1538540802;mircea_popescu;pai nu ?
1857566;1538540842;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857453 << article said TWO WEEKS
1857567;1538540842;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 20:31 ben_vulpes: sad fate to be remembered for failing to take out agents of the imperium given ~unlimited time and inclination to prepare.
1857568;1538540858;mircea_popescu;as almost anyone in the republic can well attest, 2 weeks is pretty much the most constrained time can ever get.
1857569;1538541023;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857497 << this is quite the point.
1857570;1538541023;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 21:50 BingoBoingo: Terry didn't let his daughter's feelz get in the way of his cause
1857571;1538541183;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857515 << word.
1857572;1538541183;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 23:36 asciilifeform: so presently i end up shelving the idea erry time it makes circle round my conveyor
1857573;1538542422;mircea_popescu;http://ossasepia.com/2018/09/27/tester-for-udp-communications/#selection-93.276-93.306 << word. "default value" is one thing ; but this is quite another thing.
1857574;1538542534;mircea_popescu;not sure why you keep calling them "packages" tho
1857575;1538542813;mircea_popescu;http://bingology.net/2018/10/02/haiku-r1beta1-thoughts/#selection-15.6-17.43 << very much apropos of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855937
1857576;1538542813;a111;Logged on 2018-09-30 04:15 mircea_popescu: if linus wasn't around to subvert early republican effort, it's not the case "republic wouldn't have ever existed" ; but it is the case republic would have been greater and better without his despicable ass.
1857577;1538543122;BingoBoingo;BeOS, Amiga, infant BSD and plan9 *nixen
1857578;1538543495;BingoBoingo;!!up nicoleci
1857579;1538543495;deedbot;nicoleci voiced for 30 minutes.
1857580;1538543542;nicoleci;thanks, BingoBoingo!
1857581;1538548441;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857574 -> uhm, mainly because I think of network package basically; technically speaking I suppose I should call them..datagrams, uhm
1857582;1538548441;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 04:55 mircea_popescu: not sure why you keep calling them "packages" tho
1857583;1538548441;lobbesbot;diana_coman: Sent 5 hours and 56 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> your rk is redisked! and running; you may want to stand up yer www server (iirc it doesn't run on boot)
1857584;1538548473;diana_coman;hm, that is...wrong line!
1857585;1538548501;diana_coman;ahhh, nm, I got confused with the later tell msg
1857586;1538548507;diana_coman;asciilifeform, confirmed, thank you!
1857587;1538548530;diana_coman;www is up, date is set, everything so far looks fine; I'll give it a more thorough checkup in ~2 hours and get back to you
1857588;1538554523;diana_coman;come to think about it, I can see the case for calling them "messages" since it's not the network level there, indeed
1857589;1538573289;asciilifeform;aaand i'ma skip this morning's 'in trb observatory...' , it's a straight line of 'ACCEPTED' from known trb people
1857590;1538573442;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857575 << imho it would be difficult to find a worse example of 'if only could have lived, if not linux!' than beos ( at one point i was quite into archaeology of 'anyffing nonmicroshit', eagerly dug up vintage/'resurrected' pc os, but once actually got close to the things typically found that 'ugh, ~same shit, different bottle' )
1857591;1538573442;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 05:00 mircea_popescu: http://bingology.net/2018/10/02/haiku-r1beta1-thoughts/#selection-15.6-17.43 << very much apropos of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855937
1857592;1538573551;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857577 << amiga's os was a pretty simple thing, rather closer to msdos 'init the iron & get the fuck out of the way' than to current-day items
1857593;1538573551;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 05:05 BingoBoingo: BeOS, Amiga, infant BSD and plan9 *nixen
1857594;1538573768;asciilifeform;as for early bsd, recall http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450475 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-23#1488603 , elsewhere
1857595;1538573768;a111;Logged on 2016-04-12 15:09 asciilifeform: it always struck me as a kind of 'bsd 4' - yes, 'hackable', yes, 'small', but the ~wrong kind of small~, the kind that will balloon into the same megalith as sbcl if you were to add all of the missing but necessary pieces.
1857596;1538573768;a111;Logged on 2016-06-23 18:53 asciilifeform: kinda how i boot up that cute x86 systemv and then notice that it is PALPABLY slow on modern pentium because it lacks ANY disk cache etc.
1857597;1538573802;asciilifeform;for some reason unable to unearth the 'revived system-v' thread, if anyone knows where it is, plox to link
1857598;1538573864;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-05#1316914 << ha! found
1857599;1538573864;a111;Logged on 2015-11-05 04:49 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu finally dug up the sysv6-on-x86 thing. http://blog.regehr.org/archives/1114
1857600;1538574118;asciilifeform;^ the most complete thread re subj
1857601;1538574564;diana_coman;looking at the udp tester data, it seems my uy end got also some packets from 161.0.121.254, lol
1857602;1538574582;asciilifeform;diana_coman: interesting ; any idea re contents ?
1857603;1538574606;asciilifeform;and hey BingoBoingo , what's 161.0.121.254 ?
1857604;1538574651;diana_coman;anyways, at a quick look, no errors on either direction between the 2 concerned nodes, ~99.80% made it to the other side ; will get to do a proper write-up with more details by the end of this week
1857605;1538574676;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I can tell at least some of them, yes, because they got reported as "errors" because not what expected
1857606;1538574696;diana_coman;but yes, I think it's just someone around here playing with the tester?
1857607;1538574711;asciilifeform;diana_coman: my notes dun feature a -254...
1857608;1538574715;diana_coman;o.O
1857609;1538574717;asciilifeform;i'm pretty curious nao
1857610;1538574823;asciilifeform;i'm thinking it's the switch
1857611;1538574845;asciilifeform;http://161.0.121.254/htdocs/login/login.lsp << apparently
1857612;1538574929;diana_coman;uhm, but somehow packages were received with the switch as source ?? and actually it IS extra packages as it were, since adding them does result in more than were sent...
1857613;1538574967;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i expect it's pissing broadcast crapola ( dhcp ? BingoBoingo ? ) to the lan
1857614;1538574999;diana_coman;ahhh, that can be, dhcp, ugh
1857615;1538575013;asciilifeform;well this dun solve the puzzle
1857616;1538575038;asciilifeform;typical broadcast crapola wouldn't be addressed to port 7000 or what was it diana_coman picked
1857617;1538575048;diana_coman;no, but at least gives some idea more than I had on this, lol
1857618;1538575078;asciilifeform;diana_coman: do you suppose you can reproduce this, with tcpdump going ?
1857619;1538575085;asciilifeform;i'd be curious to see the payload
1857620;1538575162;asciilifeform;( esp. curious whether the behaviour relates to fragging )
1857621;1538575169;diana_coman;I can certainly try and leave a tcpdump going to see what /if it gets anything
1857622;1538575173;diana_coman;will see to it later
1857623;1538575175;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ty
1857624;1538581140;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856533 << here's an example : did the ~source~ of http://qntra.net/2018/09/power-rangers-inserted-inflation-bug-into-core-bitcoin-network-client-in-2016/  discuss the tbf position ? if not, why not ?
1857625;1538581140;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 15:51 mod6: I feel like I can be pretty successful in doing that, it's the other things that I feel like I'm lacking -- a senseable direction to a 'Standford'.
1857626;1538581160;mircea_popescu;if not, why not "hello x, I am y, i represent tbf, our position is, i can be reached through k j p q in the future" ?
1857627;1538581179;mircea_popescu;i don't mean, ~once~. i do such things, the once, to instruct and inform. like say that harvard piece.
1857628;1538581211;mircea_popescu;the point of instruct and inform is that it sticks, and it becomes systematic and universal. we're not africans, whereby "oh, the shamans does the electricity thing, we're all safe now from having to do".
1857629;1538581230;mircea_popescu;we're europeans, "he did that ? i wonder if i could do it too... check it out i can... guess what, I AM DOING IT FROM NOW ON". and so following.
1857630;1538581240;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> and hey BingoBoingo , what's 161.0.121.254 ? << It should be the switch
1857631;1538581257;mircea_popescu;this idea whereby we can both a) long endure and b) persistently remain null at outreach on all levels is the stuff of alf's boats.
1857632;1538582731;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for long time i repeatedly 'hi omfg-rsa-xyz-of-the-day people, here's phuctor, i speak for...' etc. 0 result. but possibly was doingitwrong
1857633;1538582748;mircea_popescu;documented ?
1857634;1538582768;asciilifeform;pretty sure i pasted some of'em
1857635;1538582774;asciilifeform;but difficult to debug a thing that returns null
1857636;1538582782;asciilifeform;( i.e. why bernstein not replied ? only odin knows )
1857637;1538582808;mircea_popescu;these are attention seeking schmucks, not "name in their own mind" morons.
1857638;1538582862;mircea_popescu;(have you noticed, btw, back in the days of free !!ups to allcomers, what large proportion of those? "who are you, x ?" "i am x" "but that's nobody" "nevertheless!")
1857639;1538583291;asciilifeform;'i am ogh, son of ugh'
1857640;1538583450;mircea_popescu;and my book's tigdic-tigdic.
1857641;1538583460;asciilifeform;but of course
1857642;1538583468;asciilifeform;chukcha dun read anyffing else.
1857643;1538583488;asciilifeform;observe how quickly they evaporate when the find that we dun have tgdyk.
1857644;1538583511;mircea_popescu;aha
1857645;1538583592;asciilifeform;the bigger riddle is wherethefuck the thinking folx are. there oughta be some uranium in 1000 litres of sea, where is it.
1857646;1538583662;mircea_popescu;nevermind that. interfacing with the ambitious schmucks is the topic here.
1857647;1538583684;mircea_popescu;as a factual matter, did random "bitcoin news" crapola know or didn't know mod6 represents tbf and can be reached foir comment ?
1857648;1538583707;asciilifeform;hey mod6... consider writing to that one
1857649;1538583788;asciilifeform;( i expect same result as my phuctor propaganda, but imho mircea_popescu is right in that it oughta be tried, repeatedly , before can say 'it all goes to /dev/null' )
1857650;1538583790;mircea_popescu;ALL. the point is all.
1857651;1538583794;mircea_popescu;not that one. all of them.
1857652;1538583819;asciilifeform;yes
1857653;1538583826;asciilifeform;as many as can be turned up
1857654;1538583871;asciilifeform;possibly idea for hanbot, who was considering taking up tbf , and is in fact experienced hand in subj
1857655;1538583960;asciilifeform;if mod6 is overloaded, i can give it a shot myself later this wk, but imho this is suboptimal, asciilifeform does not represent tbf
1857656;1538584048;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: wai does the switch have a public www face ? afaik this is optional toggle, and really oughta be off
1857657;1538584077;asciilifeform;thing oughta move packets, and that's all, and not sit with open mouth to net
1857658;1538584120;mircea_popescu;noobs :D
1857659;1538584126;*;asciilifeform adds ' asciilifeform-recipe switch ' to next cargo manifest
1857660;1538584178;asciilifeform;it was in fact supposed to go in the 1st , but ended up sadly left behind , rk plant ranked higher , and mass -- limited
1857661;1538584241;asciilifeform;$subj is not , of course, custom silicon, but is a heathenware switch where asciilifeform ripped out the internal ssd and emplaced hand-sewn kernel + 'pf'
1857662;1538584277;Mocky;what's 'pf'?
1857663;1538584288;asciilifeform;Mocky: 'packet filter'
1857664;1538584292;Mocky;ahh
1857665;1538584302;asciilifeform;Mocky: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/ << subj
1857666;1538584313;mircea_popescu;lmao. oh, the thing that couldn't be done commercially, is now done commercially.
1857667;1538584321;mircea_popescu;the wonders this log witnesses for all times to come!
1857668;1538584322;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a sow's ear
1857669;1538584331;mircea_popescu;you got issues, alfie.
1857670;1538584339;mircea_popescu;if it's good enough to ship to pizarro it's good enough to sell.
1857671;1538584340;asciilifeform;but fwiw has been running asciilifeform's torture room for nearly 4y without a single burp
1857672;1538584381;mircea_popescu;very much a case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857547 etc.
1857673;1538584381;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 03:18 trinque: "we slay incas" while cute, communicates nothing except "you're not in the in-group"
1857674;1538584534;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/have-you-ever-paid-for-sex/ << Trilema - Have you ever paid for sex ?!
1857675;1538584537;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: item will need some tuning to work as pizarro main switch, presently i only ever used it as a nat ( large-ish lan to 1 external ip ) thing
1857676;1538584549;mircea_popescu;YOU GOT ISSUES
1857677;1538584592;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857656 -> udp tester for pizarro win!
1857678;1538584592;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 16:27 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wai does the switch have a public www face ? afaik this is optional toggle, and really oughta be off
1857679;1538584609;asciilifeform;lol
1857680;1538584658;mircea_popescu;haha. word huh, we got some nice coincidences going.
1857681;1538585484;diana_coman;asciilifeform, if it help, here's an example of those packets from the switch - it's from the error log - I can pass you the whole file if it's of any use : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ToYHc/?raw=true
1857682;1538585619;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Investigating
1857683;1538585668;diana_coman;it certainly does look like some chopped off part of one of the messages sent around
1857684;1538585764;mircea_popescu;some kind of broken echoing ?
1857685;1538585783;diana_coman;suspected old frag perhaps? no idea
1857686;1538585855;diana_coman;onth it's hard to *really* tell if it is indeed chopped off part or just other garbage, hmm
1857687;1538585879;diana_coman;that time sent is too small really
1857688;1538585927;diana_coman;but then who/wtf sends udp on port 7000 ? and meanwhile I left tcpdump sniffing and ...nothing so far
1857689;1538586198;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i suspect it's a frag, but hard to be certain until one's captured 'alive'
1857690;1538586216;asciilifeform;it is worth noting that -- afaik -- nobody is actually using 'heavy' udp for anyffing
1857691;1538586235;asciilifeform;the only commonplace heathen uses i'm aware of , use tiny packets (e.g. dns, iirc, 512)
1857692;1538586252;asciilifeform;so there could be all sortsa strange in various ip stacks, and i would not know of it
1857693;1538586271;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=39 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/29/2018
1857694;1538586811;diana_coman;asciilifeform, see the paste; that one is part of the live capture basically - the error log simply logs all bytes that have a different value than expected
1857695;1538586849;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i meant, would like to see hexdump of the packet itself
1857696;1538586992;diana_coman;asciilifeform, well, it IS all of it in there although you'd need to reconstitute it basically: look there, *all* the payload was different, so all of it IS reported; first bytes are reported anyway (sizesent and timesent)
1857697;1538587026;diana_coman;anyways, I'll let you know if tcpdump sniffs any/ can tell which one it is, but this paste there is the bird in hand atm
1857698;1538587130;diana_coman;http://bimbo.club/?p=39 -> ahaha, "Mod6 finished trb"
1857699;1538587192;diana_coman;such are the perils of literal reading of logs, since yes http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855541
1857700;1538587192;a111;Logged on 2018-09-29 04:22 mod6: sweet, trb is done
1857701;1538587510;asciilifeform;diana_coman: sadly i dun have just nao the time to re-create packet from list of decimals.. so will have to wait for dump
1857702;1538587517;asciilifeform;'Asciilifeform ran the experimental patch bringup in trb node zoolag' << bahahahawaaat
1857703;1538587912;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: www has been killed
1857704;1538588009;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo
1857705;1538588387;asciilifeform;inb4 bimbo.club : ' BingoBoingo killed www ! '
1857706;1538588427;BingoBoingo;Well, literally that happened
1857707;1538588435;*;BingoBoingo has killed www many times
1857708;1538588442;BingoBoingo;On different machines
1857709;1538588498;BingoBoingo;There have even been times where I rigged www to kill itself
1857710;1538590471;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857518 -> my public node is in Singapore if that's any help
1857711;1538590471;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 23:39 asciilifeform: diana_coman: do you have one back in 'old blightey' ? or know of a place there where i oughta put one
1857712;1538590483;asciilifeform;aa i thought that was trinque
1857713;1538590494;asciilifeform;( unless you both have'em there )
1857714;1538590499;diana_coman;for all I know he might have it there too? I did not coordinate/ask
1857715;1538590605;diana_coman;as for ideas, dunno what/how you ruled out i.e...new zealand?
1857716;1538590628;asciilifeform;diana_coman: would rather start from the bottom of the pantsuitism list rather than top..
1857717;1538590652;asciilifeform;( we already have buncha noades in nato reich , if shelling out for heathen boxen, would prefer outside )
1857718;1538590660;diana_coman;Russia?
1857719;1538590684;asciilifeform;diana_coman: pre-pizarro i actually tried a dozen ru isp. they all wanted ru corp.
1857720;1538590695;asciilifeform;which asciilifeform no can haz.
1857721;1538590702;diana_coman;o.O what, you mean you can't just rent a machine there?
1857722;1538590743;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i was not able to discover a 'hard nope', but all of the attempts that answered, ended in this eggog
1857723;1538590787;asciilifeform;this was, recall, part of why BingoBoingo & mircea_popescu ended up 'let's isp'
1857724;1538590819;diana_coman;hm
1857725;1538590889;diana_coman;having one in the uk is...easy I'd say, but I'm not all that sure it's worth much, lol
1857726;1538590896;asciilifeform;'bout same as usa
1857727;1538590934;diana_coman;I suppose if not Russia proper, at any rate, Moldova, Ukr, Belarus
1857728;1538590947;asciilifeform;possibly moar promising dir
1857729;1538590981;diana_coman;well...qatar
1857730;1538591013;asciilifeform;1 commonplace gotcha in orcistans is where they demand a 'physical presence' locally so they have a neck to squeeze if $box 'found to be' serving up naked pics of nazarbaev or whoever equiv.
1857731;1538591037;asciilifeform;my reading of ru law suggested this hypothesis re ru
1857732;1538591102;asciilifeform;here is also where i must note that , while i'd like moar / moar-dispersed trb nodez, my time budget for trying to talk sense into remote orcs is quite limited atm
1857733;1538591152;asciilifeform;and yea, perhaps very soon qatar noad!
1857734;1538591498;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc at one time mircea_popescu actually had a ru box ; but i dun recall him sharing how he bought it, possibly it was a mircea_popescutronic transaction and not repeatable on demand, i have nfi presently
1857735;1538591560;asciilifeform;( possibly he even has it nao, i recall seeing a trb noad running from ru not too long ago )
1857736;1538591638;asciilifeform;i'm quite reluctant to sink substantial moneys into heathen isps, for obv. reason. in that thread was thinking of 'cash and carry' modest item, strictly for moar-trb.
1857737;1538592643;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857698 << roflmao. GRREAT WIN!
1857738;1538592643;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 17:18 diana_coman: http://bimbo.club/?p=39 -> ahaha, "Mod6 finished trb"
1857739;1538594322;BingoBoingo;Catching up on dispatches from the USG fortress in Barrio Sur (El Barrio de los Negros), it turns out they Embassy warned their subjects against participating in pretty cool cultural event: https://uy.usembassy.gov/message-to-u-s-citizens-security-alert-avoid-traveling-on-the-rambla-in-pocitos-punta-carretas-and-on-avenida-18-de-julio-tonight/
1857740;1538594360;BingoBoingo;Event was 128th birthday of Peñarol futbol club
1857741;1538594479;BingoBoingo;Yes, they try to sneak "supergas" cylinders into the stadium, but on the other hand the locals care intensely about little else. Unless they are fans of Club Nacional de Futbol in which case they are a bunch of little pussies.
1857742;1538594492;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: supergas ?
1857743;1538594561;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The cylinders look like lp tanks from back home. I suspect it is lp, but the locals only ever call it supergas.
1857744;1538594584;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and they do what, light'em and throw'em ?
1857745;1538594589;BingoBoingo;Yes
1857746;1538594597;asciilifeform;lol !
1857747;1538594609;BingoBoingo;Not so much anymore now that stadium security is a thing, but historically
1857748;1538594703;asciilifeform;i could ask 'why into stadium, and not us embassy' but prolly there is no answer to be had.
1857749;1538594718;BingoBoingo;Well, the OTHER team's fans are in stadium
1857750;1538594959;BingoBoingo;Now, If Trump makes Maduro sink a USG aircraft carrier the derp squad might try a run at US embassy, but I doubt they would have the commitment they do when serving as hinchas de Peñarol
1857751;1538596049;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: conceivably whole lizard.purpose of organized sport-gladiatorism is to get the derps to throw lit petrol in stadium, at one another, instead of at pantsuit.
1857752;1538596071;BingoBoingo;Not unimaginable
1857753;1538596163;BingoBoingo;The pro-marihuana thing likely for similar reasons. Keeps them comfortable while bored and saps their energy so they don't burn Mujica for making them all poorer.
1857754;1538596196;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i'm almost surprised, at this point, that they haven't yet reintroduced opium den
1857755;1538596209;asciilifeform;afaik it was just short of perfect for this spec.
1857756;1538596243;BingoBoingo;I think they did that in San Fran and somewhere near where ben_vulpes is leaving "safe injection site" I believe is the pantsuited newspeak
1857757;1538596324;asciilifeform;( pharmacologically also interesting : old-school opium 'smokers' ( wasn't actually smoked, it was sublimated in a device resembling today's 'crack pipe', and pretty 'high tech' procedure, look at photo of the kit some time ) -- the moar active components of the vegetable -- morphine & relateds -- didn't make it out of the pipe bowl, broke down, so theoretically the chinese were actually doing a somewhat different dope than today's j
1857758;1538596324;asciilifeform;unkies
1857759;1538596326;asciilifeform; )
1857760;1538596401;asciilifeform;so not the same, in important aspect, as today's 'injection sites'
1857761;1538596516;asciilifeform;i recall reading once about an american 'sinologist' type who started by collecting the pipes ( they were often quite ornate, ivory, rhino, exotic woods ) and ended up... reconstructing actual opium den, somewhere
1857762;1538596519;BingoBoingo;Well, apparently the hot thing in California the Uruguayos haven't figured out yet is called "dabbing". Apparently it's a way to crack pipe hashish
1857763;1538596535;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ancient persia got there 1st
1857764;1538596562;BingoBoingo;And yet the Uruguayos are still behind
1857765;1538596574;BingoBoingo;And the californians recently figured it out
1857766;1538596589;BingoBoingo;Progress!
1857767;1538596599;asciilifeform;orcs are doomed to 'discover' simple techs again & again, 4evah
1857768;1538596608;asciilifeform;sorta goes with orcdom
1857769;1538596683;BingoBoingo;It does indeed
1857770;1538596742;asciilifeform;re opiumists, as i understand the procedure was fiddly enuff that it in fact required a second set of hands -- for rich d00d, servant; for poor -- den flunkie
1857771;1538596844;asciilifeform;Officially(tm) opium den, and the attendant preparation tech (the raw vegetable had to be processed in a particular way) are extinct. but betcha mircea_popescu , who traveled in the near east, knows the troof...
1857772;1538598359;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857712 << nope, deedbot sits in singapore, but not his node.
1857773;1538598359;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 18:14 asciilifeform: aa i thought that was trinque
1857774;1538599233;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857690 ~every internet multiplayer video game and all voip signaling and voice content. both qualify as heavy along multiple dimensions
1857775;1538599233;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 17:03 asciilifeform: it is worth noting that -- afaik -- nobody is actually using 'heavy' udp for anyffing
1857776;1538599299;asciilifeform;Mocky: i was speaking of heavy (i.e. fraggable) packets
1857777;1538599305;asciilifeform;not heavy traffic per se
1857778;1538599322;Mocky;ahh
1857779;1538599358;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/dell-idrac-bmc-vulnerability-discovered/ << Qntra - Dell iDRAC BMC Vulnerability Discovered
1857780;1538599438;asciilifeform;lol!!
1857781;1538599441;asciilifeform;Run Moar bmc...
1857782;1538600250;BingoBoingo;Its like they expect to embrace holes without the necessary stuffing
1857783;1538603600;BingoBoingo;And before anyone brings up the latest Sokal 2.0, yes. A qntra is baking.
1857784;1538608772;mod6;ok, let me get caught up here.
1857785;1538608965;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857589 << Thanks for the update.
1857786;1538608965;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 13:28 asciilifeform: aaand i'ma skip this morning's 'in trb observatory...' , it's a straight line of 'ACCEPTED' from known trb people
1857787;1538608985;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/qntra-sqntr-september-2018-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) September 2018 Statement
1857788;1538609078;BingoBoingo;!!sent-invoices
1857789;1538609083;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vTQy5/?raw=true
1857790;1538609184;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857624 << I did hear about this bug, of course.  I had considered perhaps sending out something about this, but before I even dared to speak, I wanted to investigate the problem in prb-shithub, as well as the CVE. I haven't even had a spare moment yet.
1857791;1538609184;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 15:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856533 << here's an example : did the ~source~ of http://qntra.net/2018/09/power-rangers-inserted-inflation-bug-into-core-bitcoin-network-client-in-2016/  discuss the tbf position ? if not, why not ?
1857792;1538609186;mircea_popescu;diana_coman asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-126812
1857793;1538609214;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu
1857794;1538609216;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857626 << I think this is along the lines of what I had in mind, yeah.
1857795;1538609216;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 15:39 mircea_popescu: if not, why not "hello x, I am y, i represent tbf, our position is, i can be reached through k j p q in the future" ?
1857796;1538609216;mircea_popescu;mod6 ideally the situation is that they send something to ask, "hey, what about this"
1857797;1538609249;mircea_popescu;in point of fact, all ideology and blather aside, there simply does not exist anyone with any expertise BESIDES us.
1857798;1538609257;mod6;I've just had 9000 lbs of shit in a 5 lbs bag lately.  If someone wants to help me, or write something in conjunction with me, that'd be really great.
1857799;1538609266;mircea_popescu;if they don't want an actual pov, and would rather publish content free fluff indefinitely, that is their problem
1857800;1538609285;asciilifeform;mod6: interestingly, i'm also drowning in record-breaking liquishit in the saeculum
1857801;1538609293;mod6;Sure.  I just wanted to ensure that I knew what the facts were, should I say anything, and were to start getting questions about it.
1857802;1538609294;mircea_popescu;changes ~nothing, there's publications out there that print bs about how magical doohickeys reduce gasoline usage by cars and shaman x cured cancer and gingivitis.
1857803;1538609313;mircea_popescu;there's also publications what'd try and get hold of an acvtual engineer, or doctor, or w/e relevant professional.
1857804;1538609314;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they're paid for it, neh
1857805;1538609319;asciilifeform;the doohickeys, that is
1857806;1538609324;mircea_popescu;on the topic of bitcoin, 100% of relevant professionals is tmsr. like it or not.
1857807;1538609347;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: from the pov of $heathen derp rag, it's gavin
1857808;1538609349;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform entirely their choice to make, copyrwriting or journalism. i dun care. but the choice must be made, by them, and as such.
1857809;1538609350;asciilifeform;and if not gavin, then hearn
1857810;1538609358;mircea_popescu;this is nobody's pov.
1857811;1538609376;asciilifeform;really ? cuz erry time i see the heathen liquishit, it's still ~same pieces of shit being quoted
1857812;1538609392;mircea_popescu;because you're all lazy and psychotic, and would rather talk my ear off than go ask a girl out.
1857813;1538609395;mircea_popescu;now enough of that shit.
1857814;1538609463;asciilifeform;mod6: let's put the letters ( + any replies ) on yer www, when they go, so we dun gotta have this thread 2nd time
1857815;1538609504;mod6;So just post whatever letters to the the world on mod6.net?  And not the ML?
1857816;1538609517;mod6;well, lol, I guess the ML is in a bit of a state lately.
1857817;1538609517;asciilifeform;ml too
1857818;1538609523;asciilifeform;was about to say, aha
1857819;1538609531;mircea_popescu;absolutely. then we can actuallky DISCUSS them, rather than typically non-tmsr-esque "oh, i did something sometime i don't remember what i don't remember when and i didn't follow what happened".
1857820;1538609543;asciilifeform;actually prolly oughta deedbot'em for good measure
1857821;1538609549;mircea_popescu;moreover, if these letters were already on www, the "wtf is this foundation doing" q would not have been needed last week.
1857822;1538609554;asciilifeform;that way the fishwrap morons can never 'you never asked!11'
1857823;1538609556;mod6;Oh, that's what I think we did last time asciilifeform.  deedbot.
1857824;1538609563;mircea_popescu;link ?
1857825;1538609576;mod6;Me?
1857826;1538609588;mod6;I gotta dig it up.  It was from the "if you go on a fork..." thing iirc.[
1857827;1538609588;mircea_popescu;did a bunch of such letters end up on deedbot ?
1857828;1538609595;mircea_popescu;you mean 2015 ?
1857829;1538609602;mod6;i'll find it, just a minute.  then I gotta reivew the rest of the log, and move on to pizarro things.
1857830;1538609607;mircea_popescu;check it out, and it prevented the fork, and you... frogot about it ? never used it again ?
1857831;1538609609;asciilifeform;i dun remember any such thing, never thought to do it with bernstein et al
1857832;1538609612;mod6;it may have been a while ago, ya.
1857833;1538609615;mircea_popescu;why not use the methods that ARE PROVEN TO WORK jaysus!
1857834;1538609644;asciilifeform;aaa! mircea_popescu's missile battery letter
1857835;1538609645;asciilifeform;yea
1857836;1538609664;mircea_popescu;"everyone thinks gavin is the expert", says alf, in 2018. but when in 2015 mp said "fuck gavin", gavin got fucked. everyone thinks ?
1857837;1538609667;mircea_popescu;gimme a fucking break.
1857838;1538609705;asciilifeform;i dun have an oracle re 'everyone', only the mouthpiece fishwraps, and even these i'll admit i read irregularly
1857839;1538609728;mircea_popescu;girls don't think what you think they think, not least of all because ~the only fucking reason~ you lie to yourself about thinking that's what girls think is so as to save your lazy ass the effort of ever talking to one.
1857840;1538609845;asciilifeform;mod6: mircea_popescu is right, gotta write'em, or else cannot say 'they dun know'
1857841;1538609887;mircea_popescu;and even that aside -- gotta write them, or otherwise vehehery tenuously can say "r foundation". because this is the sorta thing a foundation does, and this one's chartered to do -- outreach.
1857842;1538609903;mod6;I'm not at all sure, in every sense of the word, of what to write about the subject.  All I know was "bug found in core version 0.16.X"
1857843;1538609935;mod6;And for the time being, I've got Pizarro things that need doing.
1857844;1538609951;mod6;But I'd be glad to have some help, if anyone is willing to help ole mod6.
1857845;1538610022;mod6;mircea_popescu: I think it was this one, as it were: http://deedbot.org/deed-363752-1.txt
1857846;1538610084;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857654 << Yeah, this would help for sure.
1857847;1538610084;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 16:24 asciilifeform: possibly idea for hanbot, who was considering taking up tbf , and is in fact experienced hand in subj
1857848;1538610108;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857655 << Aha, totally am.  Any help would be great.
1857849;1538610108;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 16:26 asciilifeform: if mod6 is overloaded, i can give it a shot myself later this wk, but imho this is suboptimal, asciilifeform does not represent tbf
1857850;1538610123;asciilifeform;mod6: example: 'dear herr editor at volkischer beobachter: you have been misinformed by your sources re the subject of bitcoin. the client maintained by gavin et al, known as 'core', currently offered at version x.x, and infamous for lethally compromising bugs, most recently [qntra link] , is not the definitive client but a work of malicious impostors ; the actual bitcoin client can be found at [tbf] , consists of x LOC (and decreasi
1857851;1538610123;asciilifeform;ng), and is offered with pgp-verified record of changes [phf's patch viewer], .... etc '
1857852;1538610212;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what do you think of this angle
1857853;1538610369;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857737 << nicoleci - So what was going on there was this: I had compiled a new trb with a new patch that I was testing, and I was remarking about that it's build was finished.
1857854;1538610369;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 18:50 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857698 << roflmao. GRREAT WIN!
1857855;1538610397;asciilifeform;mod6: is above enuff to start from, or need help to expand
1857856;1538610444;mod6;I could probably start there.  I am getting winded here guys.
1857857;1538610469;mod6;I mean, my ticker can't keep up with this stuff.  Gonna give me a heart-attack.
1857858;1538610479;asciilifeform;mod6: i've been eating, breathing, sweating, microshit, for past 14hrs. and this is 2nd week...
1857859;1538610488;mod6;I gotta get the report done for pizarro.  I've also gotta lock in a price and get the bills paid.
1857860;1538610556;mod6;Once I have those things done, I can move on to these other things.  Unless mircea_popescu and asciilifeform find it prudent that I drop what I'm doing there and write whatever this thing is.
1857861;1538610599;asciilifeform;mod6: i dun think it will be a terrible thing if it has to wait a day, so long as we do it shortly
1857862;1538610622;mod6;I'm not going to be done with this report a few days ~at a minimum~.
1857863;1538610631;mod6;Last month took 17 days.
1857864;1538610641;asciilifeform;ugh
1857865;1538610648;mod6;ikr
1857866;1538610664;mod6;Hopefully it won't be that bad this time, but I'm having to learn all of this stuff as I go.
1857867;1538610697;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/academics-enter-hyperwank-state-after-sokal-2-0-experiment-blasts-credibility-of-prestige-journals/ << Qntra - Academics Enter Hyperwank State After "Sokal 2.0" Experiment Blasts Credibility of "Prestige Journals"
1857868;1538610699;BingoBoingo;^ Mega BlockQUOTES
1857869;1538610705;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform certainly better than current "state of the art"!
1857870;1538610718;mircea_popescu;hanbot lend the fellows a hand ?
1857871;1538610726;mod6;BingoBoingo just got me his numbers, so I can start calculations on that stuff now.  And I think I'm about to lock in a price point for October.  Which we need not only to keep the lights on, but also so we can start invoicing folks so I don't take another beating like I did in July.
1857872;1538610750;BingoBoingo;<mod6> I'm not going to be done with this report a few days ~at a minimum~. << I am here so you can unload this on me
1857873;1538610761;mod6;All I'm saying folks is that I'm doing the best that I can with what I've got to work with.
1857874;1538610778;mod6;Yes, mircea_popescu, any help from hanbot, yourself, asciilifeform would be awesome.  I just have too many things atm.
1857875;1538610811;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo they have a point, only sane way to look at the orcs is as what they are -- a primitive culture.
1857876;1538610832;mircea_popescu;pantsuit is not substantially different from any other inconsequential group of niggers the white man subdued to date.
1857877;1538610924;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Which is why it is entered into the record. All of the secondary reporting made finding their report ON THEIR OWN PROJECT a serious bitch.
1857878;1538610936;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1857879;1538610941;mircea_popescu;nice going.
1857880;1538610990;BingoBoingo;Which is why unlike so many other finds it got the early qntra mega block quote treatment while so many other things get the archive.is take it or leave it
1857881;1538611041;mod6;BingoBoingo: If you really want to take this on, I won't object.  I had thought that we would kinda go over it together... but if you wanna work through it and see how it goes, that's fine.  ben_vulpes told me that he would review the report before we publish it again this month.
1857882;1538611128;mod6;brb meat
1857883;1538611255;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i suspect that it won't 'kill credibility' , it is impossible to kill what's been dead since orig sokal (at the very least!) -- but still lulzy
1857884;1538611281;asciilifeform;these folx live in hermetically sealed parallel universe, that i suspect can only be pierced with bullet and oven
1857885;1538611330;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: That thought influenced the title word choice. Can't kill a corpse, but you can still hit it for damage.
1857886;1538611344;asciilifeform;i recently got hold of local uni's 'student newspaper', it apparently consists ~100% by weight nao of 'police report : someone wrote 'nigger' on a whiteboard' .
1857887;1538611352;asciilifeform;'hate crime investigation'
1857888;1538611360;asciilifeform;week, after week, for sumthing like 3yrs nao
1857889;1538611376;BingoBoingo;My alma maters got that shit going on too
1857890;1538611377;mircea_popescu;the whole thing is basically social payments extension. there's a lot of idle schmuycks who expect to get government freebies under the title of "doing" this crap.
1857891;1538611388;asciilifeform;and they're gettin'
1857892;1538611401;mircea_popescu;point of fact remains -- most zeks not useful in any sense. all zeks would still like to eat. this is the conduit through which they get their foodstamps.
1857893;1538611435;asciilifeform;phood, communal flats ( they can't build'em fast enuff.. ), 'degrees', jerbs, et
1857894;1538611436;asciilifeform;c
1857895;1538611441;trinque;isn't as though they get real food out of it either, just velveeta and fungal breadlike. what's to care about?
1857896;1538611453;mircea_popescu;so the notion that somehow it could be undone by meaning... item exists economically. all the women "liberated" from depending on a male are still just as dependent. much like all the slaves "liberated" from slave owner are just as much slaves.
1857897;1538611458;mircea_popescu;state steps in and surogates.
1857898;1538611493;mircea_popescu;what they "say"... well they ain't sayin' anything. in the great depression lotta folk "listened" in church because only way they'd get the bowl of soup.
1857899;1538611509;mircea_popescu;same exact thing here -- great depression, church, bowl of soup.
1857900;1538611557;mircea_popescu;the notion that the 1920s produced a whole lotta churchgoers is exactly of the same cloth as the notion that the 2000s produced a whole lotta academics, "discourse", "awareness" and what have you.
1857901;1538611584;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Not as much getting as they used to get. Today the SIU department of Philosophy has 7 faculty members. Since I was there were five promotions to emeritus (some rather young) and at least three other departures. In the intervening decade they have ONE new face on their faculty web page.
1857902;1538611621;mircea_popescu;well of course, this is the problem with government-"solved" problems : the solving produces the problem, and the only available response is to dilute the "solution". homeopathy for the masses!
1857903;1538611621;BingoBoingo;14 down to 7 in a decade
1857904;1538611696;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is entirely consistent with my observed picture ( the same lost souls auto-enter 'grad school' because otherwise... 'starbucks' + loans called in )
1857905;1538611706;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile a couple journals, a couple "centers of study", and a book series has been reduced to... a book series
1857906;1538611712;mircea_popescu;exactly how the other socialism played out -- by the time 1980 rolled around, there were so many "responsibles" to the worker, there was barely enough bread to go around.
1857907;1538611773;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: waiwat?! they actually closed shop ?!
1857908;1538611775;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yup. i would expect 2/3 to 4/5ths of all females in the age range to "more education" / "back to school" because very much http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-111.0-111.31 and literally nobody can be arsed to even asked them to suck cock. forget paying for it.
1857909;1538611797;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes ; the whole "field" has been taking water for decade+.
1857910;1538611798;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they're at the 'only can be sold for meat' level, i suspect
1857911;1538611806;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i meant, as result of $noose
1857912;1538611814;mircea_popescu;nah. as a result of, no moneys.
1857913;1538611825;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: They closed shops plural. Apparently the repurposed residential buildings are there, but locked without grad students funded to guard the door.
1857914;1538611899;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i found out recently that uni lib's budget is nao something like 70-80% for 'electronic subscriptions'. meanwhile, 3 of 8 floors emptied of boox, and carrying on
1857915;1538611917;asciilifeform;( no prizes for guessing , subscriptions to what. )
1857916;1538611930;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu had a piece re termites.
1857917;1538611956;mod6;ok back
1857918;1538612006;BingoBoingo;Mind that as recently as 2010 one of the centers there had just been inaugurated and the older one was opening satellite facilities at Chinese universities
1857919;1538612019;asciilifeform;incidentally, the 'transgender transracial studies' etc people are the easy marks for laughter, but i see ~0 diff b/w them and what's been coming out of the 'sciences' rags for past 20y
1857920;1538612042;asciilifeform;i.e. unreplicable crapola where one'd have to catch the authors and connect'em to 220v to get the orig data, supposing it existed
1857921;1538612067;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in related lulz, https://image.ibb.co/j6U4UK/feminism.jpg
1857922;1538612134;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because the "science" just as much on the dole, and consequently the main reason the "grievances field" (i kinda like the term tbh) even exists.
1857923;1538612166;*;ben_vulpes tearing personal and foundation iron out of hometown dc, bbl
1857924;1538612172;asciilifeform;i aint particularly surprised, really, errything reversemidas touches turns to shit, not merely some
1857925;1538612202;mircea_popescu;the logic is sound, if you think it through : "we fat sexually worthless females, in a word we the mamies, have the following grievance : back when the clever boys discovered new lands and made train engines, you priviledged them for this reason. now -- they do not. why can't we also have the payola they get ?" "uhm..." "and if you don't like this simple formulation, we can add 10mn words of rephrasings ?" "fuck"
1857926;1538612272;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> asciilifeform because the "science" just as much on the dole, and consequently the main reason the "grievances field" (i kinda like the term tbh) even exists. << I didn't realise until today that I am one of the leading indepenent scholars in greviances studies
1857927;1538612273;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: but of course. and ( at least at my local shithole ) that forest fire has only just begun -- the 'sciences' still get sumthing like 20x moar payola than the mamies
1857928;1538612280;asciilifeform;and this is eternal 'grievance'
1857929;1538612283;asciilifeform;and i expect will be fixed.
1857930;1538612285;mircea_popescu;as long as "engineering" and computer pseudoscience and tesla and deeply dysfunctional entirely-not-a-chance-in-hell-of-ever-working-why-don't-you-talk-of-hp-anymore "electric" cars get money... on what grounds can you deny it to irigaray and her brood ?
1857931;1538612302;asciilifeform;esp since the 'mamies' are 'red-blooded amurrricans' and the 'sciences' people, largely yellow devils
1857932;1538612308;mircea_popescu;yes ?
1857933;1538612322;mircea_popescu;you see ? it is actually very sensible, in the "common sense" sense of sensibility.
1857934;1538612328;asciilifeform;but of course
1857935;1538612450;mircea_popescu;ask one of the fucktards this, sometime. "hey, mp's bmw has 270 hp under the hood. what's your tesla got ?"
1857936;1538612477;mircea_popescu;because the "oh, we don't DO hp anymore" is definitely coming out.
1857937;1538612574;mircea_popescu;let's take the 2012 tesla s lulz : 581 kW theoretical powerplant ; 100 kWh theoretical battery pack. it's like a bmw with a two ounce tank!!!
1857938;1538612592;mircea_popescu;can go for all of ten minutes.
1857939;1538612749;mircea_popescu;and yet tesla got to pretend it's worth 300 a share ; and 2bn a year spending money out of the "shareholder"'s piggy. where's the mamie with 2bn to spend, i wish to see this.
1857940;1538612844;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc tesla sux not because lacks 300hp ( iirc they had one with massive motor ) but because costs like 15 of mp's bmw
1857941;1538612848;asciilifeform;and lives for 2y
1857942;1538612862;mircea_popescu;that is precisely what i mean.
1857943;1538612890;mod6;!!withdraw 0.81037277 168AkkaciPGrFFzfSENXAD921mi8W3S3Xv
1857944;1538612895;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GMuFC/?raw=true
1857945;1538612951;mircea_popescu;https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/news-headlines << check it out, nasdaq has a whole "menu" of optiopns, except no fucking way to establish market capitalization ; the only page that'd maybe do it, the (legally mandated, btw) anuyal report, http://www.companyspotlight.com/partner?cp_code=NAS1&ticker=TSLA ... times out.
1857946;1538612964;mircea_popescu;noooo-ooobody knows what this latest groupon burned.
1857947;1538612971;mircea_popescu;in the end, maddoff fucking won.
1857948;1538613016;mircea_popescu;just the insane way that all is organized, 100% DESIGNED to turn the eye towards the scam and away from the actuarial backing. where the fruck is the fucking list of how much stock they sold ?
1857949;1538613044;mircea_popescu;"oh, no, mp, nevermind that, would you like any of these 5 instantaneous made up quote streams ?!?!" "no." "how about the randomized news feed" "fuck off".
1857950;1538613053;mod6;!!v FC3B78FA3E9809F8BD83DED36509209F34CE63EB2ECA1D7BC99A5B810024CD11
1857951;1538613058;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/55JDF/?raw=true
1857952;1538613064;mircea_popescu;"there's a whole list of what people said about the thing you're wanting to see ?" jesus.
1857953;1538613217;mircea_popescu;anyway ; terminal (which hasn't been "updated" to "newest in ux and gui" crap, thankfully) lets us know they have 170,593,000 shares outstanding, not counting warrants and options.
1857954;1538613240;mircea_popescu;the 2bn they burned in 2017 comes out of a ~51bn piggy.
1857955;1538613259;mircea_popescu;now show me the "hypatia" with 50bn endowment.
1857956;1538613292;mod6;!!sent-invoices
1857957;1538613296;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZlrwV/?raw=true
1857958;1538613300;mod6;!!ledger
1857959;1538613303;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BFBf8/?raw=true
1857960;1538613349;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'hypatias' deal in turkeybux ( or , whatever the little termites, 'students', eat in place of turkey ), so perhaps not comparable with the imagibux traded on laughsdaq
1857961;1538613366;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2014/holy-shit-technical-analysis-is-real/#selection-81.0-97.26 still stands undisturbed, meanwhile.
1857962;1538613377;*;asciilifeform does not know the conversion ratio, if it even makes sense to ask for one, how do ya convert metres to litres...
1857963;1538613401;mircea_popescu;well... the laughsdaq endowment still got the chinese to ship some man-sized li batteries over to frisco, yes ?
1857964;1538613422;mircea_popescu;so i'm saying... it's not 0, whatever the actual ratio. and if i concede a 0.1, you're still not gonna produce the 5bn hypatia.
1857965;1538613424;asciilifeform;they're man-sized, but made of lappy cells
1857966;1538613429;mircea_popescu;well of course.
1857967;1538613432;asciilifeform;costs'em ~epsilon
1857968;1538613445;asciilifeform;( gotta dump those recycled crapples ~somewhere~...)
1857969;1538613454;mircea_popescu;costs whom ? the little yellow men? of course. but the lolzdaq tards still paying for it.
1857970;1538613460;asciilifeform;aa them -- yes
1857971;1538613487;mircea_popescu;in point of fact, the useless castrated boys get 50bn, and the useless fat girls get 50mn. this is the current disparity, if i had to guess.
1857972;1538613528;asciilifeform;but afaik they aint denominated in same unit ?
1857973;1538613538;asciilifeform;how much of the 50b is 'spendable' really
1857974;1538613649;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1857975;1538613731;mircea_popescu;who even knows.
1857976;1538613865;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857945 << https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/stock-report 170,593,000 so they say
1857977;1538613865;a111;Logged on 2018-10-04 00:29 mircea_popescu: https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/tsla/news-headlines << check it out, nasdaq has a whole "menu" of optiopns, except no fucking way to establish market capitalization ; the only page that'd maybe do it, the (legally mandated, btw) anuyal report, http://www.companyspotlight.com/partner?cp_code=NAS1&ticker=TSLA ... times out.
1857978;1538614071;mircea_popescu;a there it is.
1857979;1538614078;mircea_popescu;i suppose the webstyle just infuriates the shit out of me.
1857980;1538616045;mircea_popescu;in random eggogs : the default theme for mp-wp (w/e it is bimbo.club got), the bottom link for comments rss links to http://bimbo.club/?feed=comments-rss2 which is broken ; http://bimbo.club/?feed=comments-rss is the correct endpoint.
1857981;1538616105;mircea_popescu;or no, sorry ... it's just broken. the http://bimbo.club/?feed=comments-rss puts out valiud rss, but it seems it's the article feed.
1857982;1538620853;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857870 << sure thing, i'll draft a coupla itams, expect 'em tomorrow.
1857983;1538620853;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 23:51 mircea_popescu: hanbot lend the fellows a hand ?
1857984;1538621363;mod6;tyvm hanbot!
1857985;1538629029;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform we got anything for the s.nsa report ?
1857986;1538629298;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other lulz ~nobody caresd about, apparently kevin spacey got de-kulakized also ?
1857987;1538631308;BingoBoingo;Yeah, one of two to go down for fucking boys
1857988;1538631321;BingoBoingo;Other one was the Asia chick who started it
1857989;1538631544;mircea_popescu;heh
1857990;1538636679;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857792 -> looks good!
1857991;1538636679;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 23:26 mircea_popescu: diana_coman asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-126812
1857992;1538645533;ben_vulpes;mod6: iron safely stowed
1857993;1538663938;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857985 << financials -- none; conveyor -- tmsr.udp ; ffa to resume once i wrap up keccakizing
1857994;1538663938;a111;Logged on 2018-10-04 04:57 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform we got anything for the s.nsa report ?
1857995;1538663949;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1857996;1538663954;mod6;ben_vulpes: ack
1857997;1538663988;ave1;diana_coman, I've been running your tester with large package sizes and so far zero errors (everything even stays in order so far).
1857998;1538664228;diana_coman;ave1, good to know, thanks! and yes, it seems that there are few errors under those conditions really: over 1 full week I got less than 0.2% lost
1857999;1538664289;diana_coman;I'm going through the data right now, I plan to publish it + write-up by tomorrow
1858000;1538664368;ave1;cool! as for reference to ethernet packages etc I've found this doument useful:  https://www.microchip.com/wwwAppNotes/AppNotes.aspx?appnote=en533903 (see link to the pdf).
1858001;1538664609;mod6;trilema down?
1858002;1538664617;mod6;maybe just me
1858003;1538664771;mod6;ok, nevermind.  works!
1858004;1538666467;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i figure the rams or what were don't need to be included ; what'd the switch end up costing, you ever figured it ?
1858005;1538666512;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857659 ?
1858006;1538666512;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 16:28 asciilifeform adds ' asciilifeform-recipe switch ' to next cargo manifest
1858007;1538666517;mircea_popescu;yeah
1858008;1538666524;mircea_popescu;or is it just software ?
1858009;1538666542;asciilifeform;software, but iron will be 100 orcbux per.
1858010;1538666551;mircea_popescu;used or new ?
1858011;1538666554;asciilifeform;new
1858012;1538666557;asciilifeform;it's ye olde octeon.
1858013;1538666562;mircea_popescu;and is the one you ship actually used or new ?
1858014;1538666584;asciilifeform;will be new, they're still in print.
1858015;1538666601;asciilifeform;( will have to replace internal ssd, that'll be another 25 . )
1858016;1538666614;mircea_popescu;so like (100+25)*1.2 ? or were we doing 10% ?
1858017;1538666615;asciilifeform;so 125 net for new iron.
1858018;1538666629;asciilifeform;i'ma leave the margin to mircea_popescu .
1858019;1538666656;mircea_popescu;yeah but we were using a "standard" figure. what's pizarro charge, i don't recall ? was it 10% ?
1858020;1538667068;asciilifeform;mod6 plox to clarify when you wake up
1858021;1538667160;mod6;Hi, I think we do 20% usually.
1858022;1538667171;mod6;I don't have my notes in front of me though.
1858023;1538667174;mod6;ben_vulpes: ?
1858024;1538667336;mod6;https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-one-tiny-chinese-chip-was-used-to-infiltrate-apple-amazon-us-contractors-report/
1858025;1538667346;mircea_popescu;heh.
1858026;1538667384;mod6;"We chipped some folks"
1858027;1538667387;asciilifeform;mod6: already submitted as qntra lulzcandidate. but whole story lulzy, the chinese folx built a vlsi-bugged filter cap and slipped it into ~errything some time around '14
1858028;1538667404;mod6;Yeah, was some years back it seems.
1858029;1538667432;mircea_popescu;inb4 pantsuit dept of blue farts starts "chinese spies in democratic party" fbi investigation
1858030;1538667433;asciilifeform;somebody oughta have told'em that they oughta bug a ~diode~ instead ; it is not difficult to detect a capacitor that semiconducts inside somewhere ( it'll rectify rf ) .
1858031;1538667450;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform someone prolly has.
1858032;1538667502;asciilifeform;i suspect the cap was the 'easy' bug. y'know how when educated folx bug people, they give'em 2-3 'easies', a 'medium' to make the diggers feel 'accomplished' when the find, and the 'actual' bug somewhere entirely else.
1858033;1538667590;mircea_popescu;quite.
1858034;1538667591;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if the fishwraps are to be believed, they sat this one down on the BMC bus. so really extra spice on top of the usual bmc lulz.
1858035;1538667605;asciilifeform;( inject known bitstring into smbus, and e.g. write to arbitrary ram, etc )
1858036;1538667715;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally, gave a look at eulora log recently ?
1858037;1538667722;mircea_popescu;looks ~exactly like gossipd would.
1858038;1538667725;asciilifeform;nope, but, will nao..
1858039;1538667741;asciilifeform;ugh thing still fulla spamola
1858040;1538667744;mircea_popescu;mno.
1858041;1538667753;mircea_popescu;legitimate comments!
1858042;1538667778;asciilifeform;plox to link ?
1858043;1538667796;mircea_popescu;"but mp, i know who you or mocky are, i don't know these random names!" "so ?" "so the random names are spam" "congratulations of having a wot. now try without."
1858044;1538667811;mircea_popescu;ie, ~exactly what gossipd'd look like.
1858045;1538667834;asciilifeform;aa in the sense of 'what sw rf spectrum loox like without a tuner' lolyes
1858046;1538667845;mircea_popescu;kinda what we're building.
1858047;1538667888;asciilifeform;kinda, but entirely without wot all you'd get is cipherolade
1858048;1538667923;mircea_popescu;no. entirely without rsa all you get is cipherloade. with rsa but with ~not great wot~, what you get is on display currently in eulora log.
1858049;1538667940;asciilifeform;btw, the spam folx finally did their homework, loox like, and copied the algo that was used to murder usenet,
1858050;1538667942;asciilifeform;!#s hipcrime
1858051;1538667943;a111;4 results for "hipcrime", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hipcrime
1858052;1538667960;asciilifeform;( the thing where random snippets of actual posts somewhere , rather than pure shannonized )
1858053;1538667967;mircea_popescu;thereby the personal incentive3 to great wot ("but mp... why should i work my ass off and stay up nights to get good ratings from good people?!?!?!") is precisely so as to turn #eulora into #trilema.
1858054;1538667977;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ayup.
1858055;1538668010;asciilifeform;funnily also, there's still 0 spam in #asciilifeform , i think they took snapshot of whom-to-spam 1ce and never refreshed
1858056;1538668062;mircea_popescu;imo huge opportunity here for deedbot to swoop in and take over irc, with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850988
1858057;1538668062;a111;Logged on 2018-09-17 19:24 mircea_popescu: trinque is this something you'd be interested in doing ? expand deedbot thusly, maybe charge chans a fee ?
1858058;1538668071;mircea_popescu;aaand considering it's been coupla weeks, trinque care to put an eta on it ?
1858059;1538668086;asciilifeform;nao if only somebody other than us still used irc...
1858060;1538668105;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform supposedly big deal in this "foss" thing i never heard about. i dunno.
1858061;1538668112;asciilifeform;( where was that mircea_popescu piece, where mircea_popescu looked for signs of life )
1858062;1538668230;mircea_popescu;jesus the online searchers are utter shit.
1858063;1538668276;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-other-dead-things/
1858064;1538668285;mircea_popescu;fuck you, shitsearch webside, INDEX TRILEMA.
1858065;1538668301;asciilifeform;oh hey that was it.
1858066;1538668315;mircea_popescu;there's much less of interest on the whole fucking internet than there, it's the bigger half of the web, none of this shit where i search for dead or freenode and that's not on the results.
1858067;1538668345;mircea_popescu;https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Atrilema.com+dead+things&t=ffsb&ia=web << look at this stupid shit.
1858068;1538668399;asciilifeform;the lolcatnet and the thinkingpeoplenet, living in same fabric, is a historic accident, rather like sov communal flats where physics prof lived with a furnace stoker . it's to be corrected.
1858069;1538668414;mircea_popescu;i strongly suspect ~actual~ search doesn't even happen anymore. because heck, page indexing is fucking hard, and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856427
1858070;1538668414;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 14:49 asciilifeform: recall the thread where mircea_popescu observed 'y'know those 'hard' murder cases, where detective sits an' thinks, well guess what , in new york they no longer do that, either obvious suspect or they shelve it nao'
1858071;1538668470;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: observe that i was able to index 9.3 mil pgp comment strings somehao, on 1 iron, and with <1s lookup
1858072;1538668486;asciilifeform;indexing ain't actually so hard, but it dun scale to 1e12 nonpaying lolcats
1858073;1538668497;mircea_popescu;https://duckduckgo.com/?q=site%3Atrilema.com+%22and+in+other+dead+things%22&t=ffsb&ia=web << check out this lulz.
1858074;1538668514;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but that's fixedform, not freeform natlang
1858075;1538668523;asciilifeform;semi-free
1858076;1538668531;asciilifeform;(substring matching with 0 operators)
1858077;1538668539;mircea_popescu;the problem with "web searching" always was this confounding, "there's no definition of page"
1858078;1538668564;mircea_popescu;eg, if everyone was on mp-wp, degree of magnitude cheaper search
1858079;1538668575;asciilifeform;the moar fundamental problem is that 99.999....+% of the material is sewage
1858080;1538668578;mircea_popescu;(which yes is contemplated here -- have republican blog search engine, dedicated.)
1858081;1538668623;asciilifeform;and yes if errybody agreed on a sane canonical text format, and actually exported that, search becomes ~trivial
1858082;1538668631;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1858083;1538668649;asciilifeform;the pre-timberniers-tardation 'let's build a web' folx, understood this
1858084;1538668675;mircea_popescu;"but people want to be free!!!" "no fucktard, gas wants to be free. people want to make sense."
1858085;1538668686;mircea_popescu;"how come i don't, then !?" "three guesses."
1858086;1538668810;mircea_popescu;nobody ever fucking thinks about this, all the "oh, authoritarian irrespirable atmosphere at home!!!" complains never go along the lines of "but daddy, i want to be free, stuff omlet in my ear and piss out the nose!" "what are you, some kind of moron ?!" ; instead they always go along the lines of "but daddy, you're not making any fucking sense!" "shut up!"
1858087;1538668846;mircea_popescu;then they come with the "solution" to the not-making-sense problem by implementing "freedom", and sure enough there's idiots down the line wanting to stuff omlet in ear and piss out nose and be "transnourishal".
1858088;1538668857;mircea_popescu;freedom was never the fucking problem.
1858089;1538668863;asciilifeform;fleadom.
1858090;1538668913;asciilifeform;'hey kiddo, how come you dun wanna set yer small intestines free ?! they want to explore world too! in their fly form'
1858091;1538669026;mircea_popescu;even before the obvious "my slaves have 0 problem with no freedom, but just try and not make sense", nobody fucking ever had a problem with freedom ~as such~, because it's not fucking possible. because http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-05#1188784
1858092;1538669026;a111;Logged on 2015-07-05 22:31 mircea_popescu: if that 1% doesn't feel the state like a glove, the state's gone. kinda like my ancient "the state may exist inasmuch as and for as long as i can't tell it's there."
1858093;1538669187;mircea_popescu;(the "ancient" referenced there being http://trilema.com/2014/on-the-superiority-of-monarchy-or-adnotations-to-why-the-worst-get-on-top/#selection-155.0-155.557 ftr)
1858094;1538669509;mircea_popescu;kinda lulzy how june 2014 gets to count as ancient in my head some point on or about july 2015. year-and-a-month!
1858095;1538669548;mircea_popescu;(in fairness, pretty sure it's also stated in romanian, which is what that "ancient" really denotes, but anyways.)
1858096;1538669748;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally, did i ever ask you what's "loper" supposed to denote ?
1858097;1538669826;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a critter in an old b00k : http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-03#601590
1858098;1538669826;a111;Logged on 2014-04-03 13:30 asciilifeform: truffles: it was a minor subplot. they find these critters on jupiter, living in the gas, and decide to study them. by building a machine which transforms people into them, so they can see what their life is like. and then, for years, no one returns to be converted back. eventually one fellow comes back. and tells how much more fun it is than being human. end result: mankind vanishes, converted to lopers.
1858099;1538669848;mircea_popescu;haha. nice.
1858100;1538669859;asciilifeform;clifford simak's 'city' .
1858101;1538669881;mircea_popescu;i can't remember wtf "truffles" was.
1858102;1538669889;mircea_popescu;is this early nubbins ?
1858103;1538669892;asciilifeform;some dark ages d00d
1858104;1538669917;asciilifeform;dun think he was nubbins, but who the fuq knows
1858105;1538669924;asciilifeform;!!reputation truffles
1858106;1538669926;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wBzEy/?raw=true
1858107;1538669943;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-03#601545 << o.O
1858108;1538669943;a111;Logged on 2014-04-03 13:23 chetty: well perhaps none of us will live long enough to see the next centralization
1858109;1538669945;asciilifeform;!#born truffles
1858110;1538669945;a111;2013-02-05 <truffles> why would illumi's be interested in bitcoin though
1858111;1538669945;a111;http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-05#-138059
1858112;1538669953;asciilifeform;!#seen truffles
1858113;1538669953;a111;2014-09-10 <truffles> it bugs me when i dont resolve things..
1858114;1538669956;asciilifeform;short life.
1858115;1538670153;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-03#601577
1858116;1538670153;a111;Logged on 2014-04-03 13:28 mircea_popescu: the point was never to agree. the point was to disagree well.
1858117;1538670161;mircea_popescu;what a day that was, april 3rd 2014.
1858118;1538670251;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-03#601593
1858119;1538670251;a111;Logged on 2014-04-03 13:30 mircea_popescu: http://24.media.tumblr.com/8af209a669c2530419926ed6f84527a6/tumblr_mk7vm9TzcU1rmcr76o1_1280.jpg
1858120;1538670276;asciilifeform;oh hey, finally a heathnlink that doesn't die in ~months
1858121;1538670309;mircea_popescu;kinda why i even used tumblr. afaik the most stable of the heathentrons.
1858122;1538670330;asciilifeform;well, stable until whatever's left of 'yahoo' finally gives up ghost
1858123;1538670364;asciilifeform;( one of those surprisingly long-lived chumpatrons )
1858124;1538670396;mircea_popescu;im sure it'll be "bought" because "valuable assets" etc.
1858125;1538670453;mircea_popescu;anyway, naked pics outliving in the public sphere the woman pictured seems morally dubious, exactly in the vein of old margo channing acting a "25 yo, age's unimportant -- [AS LONG AS SHES TWENTYSOMETHING!!!]".
1858126;1538670455;asciilifeform;bought already iirc a coupla times. eventually will go to same glue factory as 'livejournal' etc
1858127;1538670462;mircea_popescu;let the new hussies redo the old forms in their own flesh.
1858128;1538670604;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-126814 << my puzzlement is in re the item where you're still using keccak as a crc
1858129;1538670604;mircea_popescu;in random lulz, https://www.glamour.com/story/men-metoo-survey-glamour-gq
1858130;1538670626;asciilifeform;or did the spec miss mentioning that it's keccak(userkey + serversecret) -> 32bits id
1858131;1538670626;mircea_popescu;(more of the same old "omfg nobody gives a shit about our inconsequential nappy headed ho club ?!?!?!?!")
1858132;1538670646;mircea_popescu;no cause to mention it, seeing how it's not in the protocol, it's server side
1858133;1538670667;asciilifeform;( and it it's a mere 32bit, still seems possible for enemy to create collisions but registering 1e12 accounts and waiting for the desired 32bit id )
1858134;1538670678;asciilifeform;*by registering
1858135;1538670680;mircea_popescu;client only ever repeats ids the server produces, see. server says "here's the tree of nodes" and client may ask "what is X node"
1858136;1538670696;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cool, i get 1e12 accounts! what's a collision do iyo ?
1858137;1538670713;asciilifeform;i don't specifically know, will depend on how it's used in the box neh
1858138;1538670730;asciilifeform;if answer is 'nuffin', would like to grasp why
1858139;1538670737;mircea_popescu;idea is that if collision happens ~in same client~, then can have some unexpected behaviour.
1858140;1538670793;asciilifeform;imho 32b is rather short for anyffing that you want to be unique, even without enemies
1858141;1538670803;asciilifeform;(even for addr space of pc, observe)
1858142;1538670832;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/no-such-labs-snsa-september-2018-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), September 2018 Statement
1858143;1538670837;asciilifeform;oh hey
1858144;1538670865;mircea_popescu;how thge hell is a client gonna hold 1bn items ?
1858145;1538670873;asciilifeform;4B lol
1858146;1538670881;asciilifeform;but dunno. if dun need to , then prolly suffices.
1858147;1538670914;asciilifeform;recall birthday theorem, tho, you'll get ~certain collisions at <1% of this iirc
1858148;1538671000;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the storage's limited at iirc 200 items per category, and you can carry a further 90 or so, and well... so there's gonna be 100mn bits of flotsam out in the world ?
1858149;1538671002;mircea_popescu;i don't think so.
1858150;1538671035;*;asciilifeform doesn't know the game board well enuff to comment meaningfully at this level, so will leave it at this
1858151;1538671037;mircea_popescu;understand, i can readily make it 256 bytes, why not, i hold the hand that holds the pen.
1858152;1538671046;mircea_popescu;but for every byte i add, ALL packets henceforth carry it.
1858153;1538671051;asciilifeform;right
1858154;1538671220;asciilifeform;afaik using keccak for the 32 doesn't actually win anyffing over crc32 tho
1858155;1538671572;BingoBoingo;I return from a local IT business networking event. Admission and pizza were free. Everyone else was either a full stack developer who does Machine learning and e-commerce, or independent consultant of unclear purpose
1858156;1538671714;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's simply not specified what the id is.
1858157;1538671741;asciilifeform;5.2 seems to specify as a keccak output ?
1858158;1538671784;mircea_popescu;a damn.
1858159;1538671795;mircea_popescu;i was thinking of the other one. the file thing. brb fixing. thanks for insisting.
1858160;1538671825;asciilifeform;np
1858161;1538671838;*;asciilifeform did sit down and 'im'a actually read this thing! nao!'
1858162;1538671861;mircea_popescu;fixed.
1858163;1538672029;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> i can't remember wtf "truffles" was. << I think you figured it as girlgendered at some point
1858164;1538672128;mircea_popescu;somehow entirely blanked.
1858165;1538672424;mircea_popescu;thinking about the whole it seems http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857921 is the perfectly sufficient response to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857986 crapolade : as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857409 well points out, ALL the whole "lgbt rights" "women's rights" "civil rights" etc crapolade ever was -- A FASHION. it never had more substance than this, girls-deciding-what-hats-to-wear. there's nothing substantial
1858166;1538672424;a111;Logged on 2018-10-04 00:14 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in related lulz, https://image.ibb.co/j6U4UK/feminism.jpg
1858167;1538672424;a111;Logged on 2018-10-04 05:01 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other lulz ~nobody caresd about, apparently kevin spacey got de-kulakized also ?
1858168;1538672424;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 18:37 BingoBoingo: Meanwhile from other mines: "I’m active in supporting LGBT causes. My boyfriend recently said that “this whole LGBT thing has gone way too far” and that he’s no longer sure what to think about same-sex marriage, even though he had thought he supported it. Worse, he said that maybe the original civil rights movement went too far, and perhaps businesses should be allowed to racially discriminate if they want to. In fairnes
1858169;1538672425;mircea_popescu; to engage in any of it, at all -- you wouldn't discourse with the girls over the relative merits of pompadours or bangs, notwithstanding the lesser value items in the sack may very well want you to.
1858170;1538672437;mircea_popescu;and, as it happens to all fashions, this one meanwhile became unfashionable.
1858171;1538673231;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1858140 >> for context, 16bit ids in eulora today
1858172;1538673231;a111;Logged on 2018-10-04 16:33 asciilifeform: imho 32b is rather short for anyffing that you want to be unique, even without enemies
1858173;1538673275;asciilifeform;Mocky: heh. sorta why i was orig reluctant to dig in & comment, i simply dun know enuff about the game mechanics
1858174;1538673343;mircea_popescu;there's nothing less socially acceptable than last season's fashions. hence, the ~only comment on girl-interest crap, from votes to #metoo, would be http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/la-femme-ridicule.jpg
1858175;1538673366;mircea_popescu;ie, "i'm guessing you're still doing that, on the farm ?"
1858176;1538673642;mircea_popescu;and of course any pretense that "but mp, we here at conde nast ARE DOING SCIENCE" straight to http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/
1858177;1538676629;deedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/04/results-of-testing-udp-take-1/ << Ossasepia - Results of Testing UDP - Take 1
1858178;1538676835;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/china-leveraged-supply-chain-to-own-adversary-computers/ << Qntra - China Leveraged Supply Chain To Own Adversary Computers
1858179;1538676990;asciilifeform;diana_coman: neato
1858180;1538678397;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=40 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 9/30/2018
1858181;1538679044;diana_coman;asciilifeform, cheers!
1858182;1538684347;BingoBoingo; Re: earlier fashion thread. Turns out farm country is rejecting the ole trend as well http://archive.is/RYM2v >> "are you OK with your psychology "teachers" getting "teaching" materials from this website?  Because I'M NOT.  My kid will NOT sit thru this [...] itspronouncedmetrosexual.com "
1858183;1538684381;BingoBoingo;;tl didn't click: Picture of a "Genderbread Man" graphic
1858184;1538686646;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lolwat
1858185;1538686659;BingoBoingo;lolwat indeed
1858186;1538686740;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in trb observatory... http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_4_ProcessBlock.txt
1858187;1538686750;asciilifeform;( spoiler : noad is up to date )
1858188;1538686988;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plox at your earliest convenience to pgp to asciilifeform your notes re how pizarro exit router was configged... asciilifeform is baking a pilot replacement for subj
1858189;1538687052;asciilifeform;( and, naturally, it gotta absolutely work 100% before there can be talk of plugging it in.. )
1858190;1538687153;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Will do
1858191;1538687158;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ty
1858192;1538690052;hanbot;here's a question for the forum at large as i'm thinking about the missives on my plate for today: if tbf outreach is a goal, and talking to people a primary avenue of same, given the rocky road to voice in #t these days, should the foundation host its own castle-channel?
1858193;1538690355;mircea_popescu;why ?
1858194;1538690744;hanbot;well, say some journos or whoever want to chat. does talking to the foundation necessitate jumping through the #t voice model hoops?
1858195;1538690759;mircea_popescu;these have the ability to irc that heretofore was magically undiagnosed ?
1858196;1538690785;mircea_popescu;let's not worry about "what if the barn animal starts talking", in the design of the cattle prods.
1858197;1538690799;mircea_popescu;they are what they are, and that is very much not people.
1858198;1538690880;hanbot;...but if they're very much not people in the sense of it not being worth to craft the item sensibly to minimally accommodate their particular idiocies, why contact them at all, again?
1858199;1538690883;mircea_popescu;the design of the cow holding pen is built around bovine physiology and psychology, not human aesthetic values. because it's made to hold cows.
1858200;1538690911;mircea_popescu;hanbot because the situation in the republic currently includes semi-domestic animals running all over the place, and in the process threatening the china.
1858201;1538690935;mircea_popescu;i would like the semi-domestic animals domesticated properly, and the china safeguarded. consequently republic gotta make the step up from mongol horde into settled civilisation.
1858202;1538690955;mircea_popescu;this'll not only make for much happier cows, but it'll also permit the purchase of some fine china.
1858203;1538691027;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/h9Vk6/?raw=true Let me know what more I can/should do
1858204;1538691104;hanbot;mircea_popescu alright then, hoops it is
1858205;1538691109;mircea_popescu;not at all!
1858206;1538691115;mircea_popescu;i don't expect the cows to sit on couches as a resul;t of this.
1858207;1538691125;mircea_popescu;give them emal and phones and telepheric or w./e the fuck they use.
1858208;1538691143;mircea_popescu;cow holding pen has cow-facing plating on the inside. yes ? you ever seen one ?
1858209;1538691150;mircea_popescu;it doesn't look like your house. it looks like a cow's house.
1858210;1538691165;hanbot;ahaha, okay. i haven't seen the inside of a cow holding pen, no, fancy that.
1858211;1538691200;mircea_popescu;it's built exclusively out of building blocks familiar to the cow and recognizable by it.
1858212;1538691222;BingoBoingo;Well, that and walls to keep it from threatening the china
1858213;1538691233;hanbot;anyway i suppose i oughta use your bimbo's contact info then, mircea_popescu
1858214;1538691241;mircea_popescu;but not zek-walls, ie, colored cardboard. cow-walls.
1858215;1538691247;hanbot;can be a sorta moiety-lite
1858216;1538691262;mircea_popescu;hanbot if the republic requires...
1858217;1538691505;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, black girl uninspiredly picked the nick "sashalotus".
1858218;1538691508;mircea_popescu;ain't even fat.
1858219;1538691648;mircea_popescu;hanbot in any case, teh days of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-21#571597 are long behind. there's no need to further the pretense that pantsuit jewry enjoys personhood. it eminently does not.
1858220;1538691648;a111;Logged on 2014-03-21 13:05 ReutersEmily: Oh so glad you are here mircea_popescu
1858221;1538695927;mircea_popescu;!#born SudsyForce
1858222;1538695927;a111;2013-03-01 <SudsyForce> http://i.imgur.com/81Jun1Q.jpg
1858223;1538695927;a111;http://btcbase.org/log/2013-03-01#-103923
1858224;1538695934;mircea_popescu;da fuck was this then
1858225;1538695943;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: got it. sadly i'ma have to rtfm, i am not deep expert in subj
1858226;1538696023;mircea_popescu;phf http://btcbase.org/log/2013-03-01#-103915 << listen, how could this page possibly be 65.5k lines long ?!
1858227;1538696023;a111;Logged on 2013-03-01 22:30 SudsyForce: Two slave brothers, one black, one an albino, discover a treasure map which is taken from them by their foreman. They take it back but are pursued by the foreman. Originally, the foreman seeks the aid of two bounty hunters who pursue the protagonists throughout the film. At the end, both the foreman and the bounty hunters catch up with the two escaped slaves, and the foreman has a change of heart, helping to kill the bounty hunters.
1858228;1538696028;mircea_popescu;there's something amiss here neh ?
1858229;1538696085;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's got negative indices, too
1858230;1538696091;asciilifeform;e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2013-03-01#-41827
1858231;1538696091;a111;Logged on 2013-03-01 05:35 KRS1: yeah..wasnt always like that
1858232;1538696100;mircea_popescu;i just... i don;'t recall days that huge, ever.
1858233;1538696117;asciilifeform;or hrm possibly ~those~ aint a bug
1858234;1538696123;asciilifeform;they happen when pre-dragon iirc
1858235;1538696131;mircea_popescu;yes.
1858236;1538696149;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what i was looking for is our discussion of the old republic wrecking that was the "fugitive slaves act". you got link ?
1858237;1538696182;asciilifeform;hmmm
1858238;1538696269;asciilifeform;may have been in a trilema
1858239;1538696406;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2018/why-african-americans-can-never-excel-at-anything-relative-to-the-white-majority-they-cant-be-the-smartest-nor-the-poorest-nor-the-best-nor-the-neediest-nor-the-anything-else-est-not-ever/#comment-125079
1858240;1538696422;mircea_popescu;o o!
1858241;1538696432;mircea_popescu;tyvm
1858242;1538696436;asciilifeform;np
1858243;1538696471;mircea_popescu;i got the perfect monture supporting your summary, coming out in a few hours.
1858244;1538696492;asciilifeform;pantsuit 'historians' naturally paint it as 'eeeevil southern expansion', noshit
1858245;1538698783;hanbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KImP1/?raw=true << coupla rough drafts re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857870 ; first specific to trustnodes wankpiece in particular, latter as a kind of generic template. mod6 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu asciilifeform et al pls to scrutinize when convenient.
1858246;1538698783;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 23:51 mircea_popescu: hanbot lend the fellows a hand ?
1858247;1538698802;asciilifeform;hanbot: oh neato !
1858248;1538698804;*;asciilifeform loox...
1858249;1538698866;asciilifeform;hanbot: imho this is entirely good, and oughta be taken up
1858250;1538698869;asciilifeform;mod6: plz to look
1858251;1538698872;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes ditto
1858252;1538698958;hanbot;ty asciilifeform. BingoBoingo also take a look?
1858253;1538699230;mircea_popescu;i don't see a problem. maybe could be had warmer, but not clear that can be done without elongation. terseness' is a virtue, as ~nobody reads anymore.
1858254;1538699241;*;mod6 reads up
1858255;1538699264;mircea_popescu;just as long as we're clear "media-wannabes" includes everyone, from washpo and guardian to what have you.
1858256;1538699317;mircea_popescu;i guess i gotta get that girl a real machine now, so she can actually v and stuff.
1858257;1538699877;hanbot;mircea_popescu we're clear.
1858258;1538699957;mod6;jesus mary and joseph
1858259;1538699975;mod6;"looks good to me" ?!
1858260;1538699994;asciilifeform;mod6: hm?
1858261;1538699996;mod6;This is the first chance I've had to even read this trustnodes article
1858262;1538700005;asciilifeform;mod6: the article is pretty sad
1858263;1538700012;asciilifeform;mod6: we're discussing hanbot's answr
1858264;1538700030;mod6;Yeah, I wanted to get a bit of background here before I do.  On-deck next :]
1858265;1538700076;mod6;now I get mp's -10 on thebluematt
1858266;1538700120;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/stephen-douglas-speaking-at-ottawa-ill-august-21th-1858/ << Trilema - Stephen Douglas, speaking at Ottawa, Ill. August 21th 1858.
1858267;1538700368;BingoBoingo;hanbot: ty, reading. Just got back from epic beachwalk
1858268;1538700403;*;BingoBoingo wasn't aware Illinois has an ottawa
1858269;1538700491;mod6;hanbot: Thank you, I really like both of these.  I don't think I would change a word.  Nice job!
1858270;1538700539;mod6;I also, really appreciate you stepping up to help me out.  Seriously.
1858271;1538700577;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Looks really good. I can't think of changes which would keep it something that might get bites.
1858272;1538700847;mod6;mircea_popescu: Maybe the Foundation could pay for the machine, since she'll be doing work on behalf of the Foundation?
1858273;1538700890;mircea_popescu;very kind, but nah,
1858274;1538700909;mod6;Ok, just thought I'd offer.
1858275;1538700951;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo more proeminent back then.
1858276;1538700959;mircea_popescu;congressional district etc.
1858277;1538701657;mod6;All, an update from Pizarro:  The price point that Pizarro will be using for the month of October is $6170 per BTC.
1858278;1538702339;trinque;roughly 400 spread eh?
1858279;1538702393;mod6;Yeah.
1858280;1538702447;mod6;We're willing to purchase more fiat at some point later in the month of course.
1858281;1538702644;trinque;gotta say, I'm eventually going to cancel my service if this "we pulled the price out of our asses, and here it is" thing doesn't turn into a process somebody surfaces on a blog somewhere.
1858282;1538702669;trinque;I thought the point of doing business in a WoT was to avoid that kind of thing.
1858283;1538702785;mod6;It was not pulled out of our "asses".  We had a difficult time finding takers to sell us fiat this month.  Late in the game, we came to a price point with jurov.  This was the quoted amount.
1858284;1538702801;trinque;you came to a price point with jurov where?
1858285;1538702821;mod6;This was conducted behind closed doors.
1858286;1538702828;trinque;do you see my point yet?
1858287;1538702838;mod6;trinque: hopefully lobbes' auction bot will be available next month.
1858288;1538702870;mircea_popescu;o hey, rehash of this!
1858289;1538702871;trinque;this prevents jurov from saying "I jurov bid $x for $y" here?
1858290;1538702926;mircea_popescu;mod6 is the idea jurov could not have done what i did, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837995 specifically, because... what is it, he's decided not to speak in channel anymore and you had tjhe option of either forcing the point or getting the dough ? or is this just terribly mismanaged altogether, or what ?
1858291;1538702926;a111;Logged on 2018-07-27 16:33 mircea_popescu: !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0
1858292;1538702962;mod6;So here's what went down.
1858293;1538703009;mod6;Last few months, jurov took a heavy hit on FX when he would quote us, send the wires, and then we would finally send him the coins at the end.  He also was apparently butting up against some possible fiat limits.
1858294;1538703027;mircea_popescu;this also behind closed doors ?
1858295;1538703046;mod6;Since we were getting a bit desperate to get some fiat purchased, I offered to him to send the coins first, and he could mitigate that FX risk.  We worked out the details in a PGP.
1858296;1538703053;mod6;Yes.
1858297;1538703075;mircea_popescu;is there some advantage i'm not seeing to the approach ?
1858298;1538703087;trinque;for jurov, apparently!
1858299;1538703095;mircea_popescu;i'm not even sure of that much.
1858300;1538703100;mod6;I'd love to do this a different way.  I just felt like, other than alf spending money that he had saved for a possible emergency trip, we didn't have a lot of other options.
1858301;1538703150;mircea_popescu;you had no options other than to keep things quiet that you knew sooner or later will have to make public and also knew the people you'll make them public to will take a dim view of your keeping them secret ?
1858302;1538703177;asciilifeform;mod6: i'ma do the next one ( given as BingoBoingo got his crate ) , this oughta give enuff time for lobbesbot & some semblance of civilized life to start
1858303;1538703183;mod6;I actually didn't think it was any big deal, as previous months I had made these deals behind closed doors with jurov as wel.
1858304;1538703186;mod6;*well
1858305;1538703193;mircea_popescu;and trinque complained regularly.
1858306;1538703197;asciilifeform;mod6: and no closed doors plox, we'll work out the price right here.
1858307;1538703205;mircea_popescu;if you do manage to lose his custom, that's what, 1/3 of your income ?
1858308;1538703209;asciilifeform;mod6: based on , idk, crystal balls.
1858309;1538703212;trinque;mod6: suppose I start charging you deposit fees on deedbot *arbitrarily*
1858310;1538703223;trinque;and notice that I don't, because wtf?
1858311;1538703252;asciilifeform;trinque: let's say you were selling usd, instead of jurov ; how wouldja pick a price ? ( serious q, i dun have what could be considered a civilized & deterministic algo presently )
1858312;1538703253;mircea_popescu;how do i lean on him, "trinque, stick with the republican isp!" "but mp, LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO MY BABY!". what do i say at that juncture ?
1858313;1538703258;mod6;I will back away from all of this going forward.  I'll let BingoBoingo handle this.
1858314;1538703270;mod6;I apologize trinque.
1858315;1538703278;trinque;what's with the angular responses? just do business here in the forum where it belongs.
1858316;1538703318;asciilifeform;trinque: entirely meant as non-flame. i like selling usd occasionally ( did first , what , 6mo of pizarro... ) but i do not have a proper algo currently.
1858317;1538703338;mod6;I'm sorry, I was just acting to do what I thought was best for Pizarro and it's customers.  I seem to be getting it wrong, somehow.
1858318;1538703344;trinque;I could've weighed the decision to buy against your discount, which would've put you in a better position than your deal with jurov, and meanwhile saved you from the perception that you're not all that clued in on what the forum does.
1858319;1538703344;mircea_popescu;in fairness to jurov (whom, knowing the man, i can readily believe took a fx beating), wouldn't his implicit donation deserve the implicit recognition ?
1858320;1538703363;trinque;I suppose all I know about jurov right now is silence, which is a related problem.
1858321;1538703383;asciilifeform;i'ma have to agree with trinque , i have nfi where jurov's been hiding out and specifically why
1858322;1538703420;asciilifeform;some folx have a very heavy meatspace life ( e.g. phf ) but i'm not aware of why jurov.
1858323;1538703467;*;trinque has an extremely heavy meatspace life, but checks in every time he can
1858324;1538703521;*;mircea_popescu will pass this "busy meatspace life" thing altogether. 
1858325;1538703654;BingoBoingo;Going forward we are going to have to do open air in the log bidding. Three increasingly urgent attempts during the second half of September by mod6 to get bidders are recorded in the logs http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850967 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1852917 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855384
1858326;1538703654;a111;Logged on 2018-09-17 19:04 mod6: Also folks, Pizarro needs to purchase some fiat, so if you're interested, can start up an auction if you like, or can do WU or whatever.  Minimum $500, please.  Let us know if interested.
1858327;1538703654;a111;Logged on 2018-09-23 01:43 mod6: Pizarro is looking to purchase some fiat for next month.  Please reach out to me if you would like to sell some dollars!  Thanks in advance.
1858328;1538703654;a111;Logged on 2018-09-28 16:30 mod6: We still need fiat, any takers?
1858329;1538703694;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: hand-cranked auction ? i see no prob with this ( until we have robot )
1858330;1538703738;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: aside from the problem where mod6 proclaimed one on 17th and nobody came forward
1858331;1538703741;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Hand cranked auction has long history of being a thing
1858332;1538703751;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: aside from the problem where mod6 proclaimed one on 17th and nobody came forward << This is a problem
1858333;1538703785;BingoBoingo;But bot auction can also recieve deafening silence from bidders
1858334;1538703796;trinque;"and anyway if I asked her she'd just say no"
1858335;1538703822;asciilifeform;trinque: in your pov mod6's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850967 does not constitute 'ask' ?
1858336;1538703822;a111;Logged on 2018-09-17 19:04 mod6: Also folks, Pizarro needs to purchase some fiat, so if you're interested, can start up an auction if you like, or can do WU or whatever.  Minimum $500, please.  Let us know if interested.
1858337;1538703853;asciilifeform;why's this ? not formatted correctly, or wat
1858338;1538703884;trinque;if this is working for you just fine, keep it.
1858339;1538703898;trinque;I would've preferred to know of jurov's bid, so I could counter
1858340;1538703907;asciilifeform;trinque: this is 100% fair imho
1858341;1538703923;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo, mod6 : trinque is entirely right , bids oughta be open strictly.
1858342;1538703927;asciilifeform;no moar whispers.
1858343;1538703927;trinque;gotta let the money work neh?
1858344;1538703938;mod6;The bid came in yesterday evening
1858345;1538703988;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> BingoBoingo, mod6 : trinque is entirely right , bids oughta be open strictly. << Open bidding going forward. Bot or no bot.
1858346;1538703994;mod6;We needed to get the ball rolling here, I went with it.  I did ask you if you wanted to buy some, but you declined.
1858347;1538704044;asciilifeform;mod6: i'd happily work 100% of'em if i had what with.
1858348;1538704075;asciilifeform;but imho the civilized thing to do is proper forum bids.
1858349;1538704100;asciilifeform;( e.g. asciilifeform : million! trinque : nut, 10k ! mircea_popescu : idjit! 1k ... etc )
1858350;1538704123;mircea_popescu;i dunno why this thing with the bot seems to satisfy me only. is it truly impossible to sell chunks of fiat for some reason ?
1858351;1538704179;asciilifeform;well we're buying, rather than selling
1858352;1538704184;asciilifeform;( fiatola, that is )
1858353;1538704213;mircea_popescu;so if jurov has a chunk of fiat, he can offer it and pizarro can bid and i guess trinque could bid more if he wanted to. this is dysfunctional ?
1858354;1538704225;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846350 << some history around 'manual'
1858355;1538704225;a111;Logged on 2018-09-01 00:13 mod6: i'm just saying, doing it 'botless'.  like I say, "this auction is open for 72 hours, closes on X date at X time.  Selling 1 BTC for USD.  Winner of auction sends whatever wires seller specifies."
1858356;1538704227;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is exactly what's wanted
1858357;1538704263;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837995 not good format to repeat because ... ?
1858358;1538704263;a111;Logged on 2018-07-27 16:33 mircea_popescu: !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0
1858359;1538704302;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was my understanding that this bot is being retrofitted by lobbes for the necessary units
1858360;1538704342;mircea_popescu;you must've skipped some log then, do you mean http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848940 ?
1858361;1538704342;a111;Logged on 2018-09-09 19:00 mircea_popescu: lobbes forum schmorum, if you de-ecu it ima kick it off #eulora and have someone else make a different one.
1858362;1538704362;asciilifeform;nah got that, it's to be a separate proggy iirc
1858363;1538704368;mircea_popescu;it is ?!
1858364;1538704369;asciilifeform;unconnected with eulora's
1858365;1538704370;asciilifeform;no ?
1858366;1538704382;trinque;mod6: you did ask me in private, which I appreciate, but that's not how I'd prefer to do this, as per all the ^
1858367;1538704396;mircea_popescu;afaik all you get is reverse auction (at a significant later date, once he's well done with rewriting the whole thing).
1858368;1538704413;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ok, is what i thought
1858369;1538704420;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> afaik all you get is reverse auction (at a significant later date, once he's well done with rewriting the whole thing). << This is what I recall. Reverse auction denominated in ECU
1858370;1538704424;mod6;trinque: Got it.
1858371;1538704431;mircea_popescu;entirely not clear to me what's blocking about this. what's blocing about this ?
1858372;1538704437;asciilifeform;mod6: you asked him before 17th, or after ?
1858373;1538704455;trinque;and it's not as though I can't eat +-5%, but why, when learned folks have a process for narrowing those kinds of gaps, and don't need a bot to do it.
1858374;1538704456;asciilifeform;i'm trying to grasp what happened here, why no bids on 17th, or 18th, or any other day until last night?
1858375;1538704476;mod6;After for sure.  I don't have the exact date, but I'd say it was in the last week of september -- I reached out to a few people directly since I wasn't getting any takers in either #pizarro or #trielam.
1858376;1538704477;asciilifeform;or there were ? but not where i could see'em ?
1858377;1538704480;mircea_popescu;can't say " !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0" because gotta say  !Qrauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0 instead ?
1858378;1538704481;mod6;*#trilema
1858379;1538704494;trinque;maybe I hear jurov's bid and I say fuck it, my next month's btc purchase happens today instead.
1858380;1538704504;mircea_popescu;to translate the difference between "i'm selling 8k fiats" and "i wish to buy 8k fiats" ? is the specificity of ammounts on pizarro side such a huge deal for you lot ?
1858381;1538704519;mircea_popescu;i had formed the impression the main problem's finding lots, not cutting them to specified sizes.
1858382;1538704630;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was my parsing of 'i'ma kick it' that you dun want any units other than btc and ecu in there ?
1858383;1538704645;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suspect what might've happened is that ~everyone is waiting indefinitely for arbitrary and unexamined expectations to be satisfied, and no public discussion available to remedy this.
1858384;1538704657;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: trying to fix !
1858385;1538704660;asciilifeform;let's fix
1858386;1538704681;mircea_popescu;the way the auction works, is that you can currently sell any one thing you wish, for ecu, which are these account bitcoins.
1858387;1538704698;mircea_popescu;the way the auction will work, is that you will be able to both sell and buy any one thing you wish, also for ecu.
1858388;1538704704;asciilifeform;trinque what do you need to feel yerself in a civilized house of commerce instead of orc den. mod6 what do we need re fiatolade purchasing. jurov what do you need to start fucking showing up in forum.
1858389;1538704722;mircea_popescu;what this development buys you is NOT that "i can now trade fiats", but that "i can now buy SPECIFIC lots of fiat, whereas before i was stuck bidding on whatever lots someone offered".
1858390;1538704746;asciilifeform;right, specific, like erry civilized auction block worx, 'i have 900kg of iridium', not 'i have iridium!'
1858391;1538704759;mircea_popescu;it ~seems to me~ this difference is not worth a postage stamp, if indeed i understand the description of pizarro's situation mod6 is making correctly, that is, "we have trouble finding lots of fiat to buy, not finding exact chunks".
1858392;1538704777;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's not the meaning involved.
1858393;1538704790;asciilifeform;hm?
1858394;1538704833;mircea_popescu;the way auction bot currently works, and has worked for 100s of auctions worth 10s of bitcoin, is that any one party with some fiat, can say "i have this much fiat and will let it go for no less than this much ecu".
1858395;1538704860;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846358
1858396;1538704860;a111;Logged on 2018-09-01 00:19 mod6: ah, i see, so for instance trinque could say, "selling 4000 USD for ECU", exactly like yourself with the last one
1858397;1538704861;mircea_popescu;this, as far as i can tell, is perfectly useful to pizarro as things stand now, and perfecly approachable to everyone, and a permanent solution to the record and advertisement requirements people have.
1858398;1538704892;mircea_popescu;for SOME REASON you seem to be waiting for a (MUCH LATER) upgrade which would permit you to advertise ~i want to buy EXACTLY X fiats AND NO OTHER SUM NO MATTERE WHAT HAPPENS!!!~.
1858399;1538704917;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: plox to clarify what http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848940 was about, in this case. i was under the specific impression that auction of items other than ecu is forbidden in mircea_popescu's bot.
1858400;1538704917;a111;Logged on 2018-09-09 19:00 mircea_popescu: lobbes forum schmorum, if you de-ecu it ima kick it off #eulora and have someone else make a different one.
1858401;1538704924;mircea_popescu;notwithstanding this doesn't seem to actually be your position -- you do not in fact have the option to so wait, because you may not engage in this course that fucks over the record keeping and advertising obligations you have.
1858402;1538704992;asciilifeform;hmm
1858403;1538704996;mircea_popescu;all auctions must ~settle in something~. it is greatly beneficial to have unique settlement, on the basis of 100s of years of auctioning experiencve in teh commercial world. just like lloyds will trade in antique vases and modern soiled underpants, BUT ALWAYS SETTLE IT IN POUNDS, just so lobbesbot will deal in disgusting goop or unified dosidoes, but always settle in ecu.
1858404;1538705009;asciilifeform;i dun see why we need the exact sums thing
1858405;1538705023;mod6;I think, we'd be fine doing the reverse (if possible) of the log I linked above. "BUYING 1000 USD for ECU".
1858406;1538705025;mircea_popescu;you're in this joining me, who's similarly not seen for a few months now.
1858407;1538705033;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858369 << this is correct btw; new auctionbot (will be named 'auctionbot') will allow !Xsell and !Xbuy (both denominated in ecu) see also: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/auctionbot-eta-and-status-report/
1858408;1538705033;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 01:53 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> afaik all you get is reverse auction (at a significant later date, once he's well done with rewriting the whole thing). << This is what I recall. Reverse auction denominated in ECU
1858409;1538705043;mircea_popescu;but for some reason quite square heads stuck with a collection of balls.
1858410;1538705058;trinque;mod6: you've got it backwards. in this model I'd go list my available fiats alongside everybody else, is my understanding
1858411;1538705090;asciilifeform;trinque: this seems to me to be Right Thing
1858412;1538705098;mod6;Oh, I suppose it has to be the first way I linked then 'eh?
1858413;1538705106;asciilifeform;but what i don't yet grasp is how to make this go with mircea_popescu's 'settle in ecu'
1858414;1538705114;trinque;this would look like an ideal position for pizarro, as you'd have far more of a sense in advance what fiat you may be able to pick up.
1858415;1538705118;mircea_popescu;it's possibly not the best thing, and yes work to better it is underway, but you seem to me in the position of the fellow who is starving with cheese in hand for lack of steak.
1858416;1538705120;asciilifeform;how do i list a bag of usd for auction in a bot where only ecu and btc are units.
1858417;1538705131;mircea_popescu;trinque no, i know. it's just...
1858418;1538705149;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform is the example provided not edifying ?!
1858419;1538705174;asciilifeform;something's not clicking in my head, i can't seem to turn it into an algo
1858420;1538705182;asciilifeform;i have a bag of x usd. what do i do next.
1858421;1538705197;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837995  <<
1858422;1538705197;a111;Logged on 2018-07-27 16:33 mircea_popescu: !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0
1858423;1538705210;mircea_popescu;"i have 8200 fiats which i'm willing to wire, will take at least 1 btc for it"
1858424;1538705284;*;asciilifeform looks for the rtfm for Qauction
1858425;1538705299;mircea_popescu;to the undying shame (of the soi-dissant "banking system" foremost), that trade did not actually complete. but i daresay it did not complete because third parties idiocy, not because the auction mechanism.
1858426;1538705308;asciilifeform;( what does the 1bn do ? the 168 ? wFF ? q0 ? )
1858427;1538705309;lobbes;!Qhelp
1858428;1538705309;lobbesbot;lobbes: http://lobbesblog.com/lobbesbotcommands
1858429;1538705315;lobbes;asciilifeform: ^^
1858430;1538705317;asciilifeform;ty lobbes
1858431;1538705353;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform 1bn ecu = 1 btc. 168 is hours to live, here 1 week. "wFF" is a symbol i ad-hoc'd, "wired filthy fiats". explained in the next line. q0 is just a joke as to the poor quality of the fiats in question, has no bearing in this context.
1858432;1538705377;asciilifeform;ok figured out from doc, all but last 2, which mircea_popescu explained above
1858433;1538705378;mircea_popescu;the great flexibility of this thing allows you to make your own symbols and so on, it's really well made.
1858434;1538705420;asciilifeform;so mircea_popescu dun actually have objection that the item being auctioned is not euloric ?
1858435;1538705427;asciilifeform;then we can use the existing mechanism, mod6
1858436;1538705434;trinque;what's the ecu to btc bridge, in-game, or requires another sale?
1858437;1538705439;mircea_popescu;if at all used, this system would ~certainly~ quell any sort of even vaguely possible complaint in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858281
1858438;1538705439;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 01:24 trinque: gotta say, I'm eventually going to cancel my service if this "we pulled the price out of our asses, and here it is" thing doesn't turn into a process somebody surfaces on a blog somewhere.
1858439;1538705451;mircea_popescu;because it'd run in the obvious -- "you don't like it, put some grease in, what's keeping you".
1858440;1538705457;mod6;asciilifeform: well, that's just the thing.  anyone who wanted to sell fiats, didn't start up an auction.
1858441;1538705461;mircea_popescu;trinque parties are at liberty to settle either way.
1858442;1538705466;asciilifeform;trinque: good q. i for instance am not equipped to process ecu atm
1858443;1538705471;mircea_popescu;traditionally settlement was offered indistinctly in either format.
1858444;1538705475;trinque;ah ok.
1858445;1538705487;mircea_popescu;ecu is an ~account currency~. you know what those are ?
1858446;1538705501;asciilifeform;think so
1858447;1538705507;trinque;more or less what's sitting in the deedbot db
1858448;1538705508;mod6;i pasted that log line above because i was hinting to readers "hey, if you want to buy pizarro's coins, this is how you do it."  But no one even asked.
1858449;1538705510;mircea_popescu;symbolic, abstractly defined denominations, like the roman empire's solidus, or what have you. they don't even have to exist to be used.
1858450;1538705537;mircea_popescu;mod6 maybe a lot of this isn't well understood, we got a situation of everything waiting for everything else.
1858451;1538705568;mod6;yeah, i think as people see a few of these take place, it'll make a bit more sense.
1858452;1538705573;mircea_popescu;right.
1858453;1538705587;trinque;mod6: the hinting thing doesn't work. put a blog post out and give direction, pizarro's process is to ...
1858454;1538705604;mod6;any regular buyers of btc should just throw out an auction for some minimal amount.  Say $500 USD, and once pizarro wins those aucutions, they'll get the hang of it.
1858455;1538705608;mircea_popescu;well i think part of the problem may be he himself didn't well understand this before right now.
1858456;1538705631;trinque;it's no problem; this is why I threw a friendly punch instead of quitting the service.
1858457;1538705643;*;mod6 rubs eye
1858458;1538705646;mircea_popescu;lol
1858459;1538705834;mircea_popescu;anyway, the only important magic number is the 10e9 ecu = 1 btc value. otherwise the whole thing's open, you can just say i dunno, "will only take BTC" as a comment in the next line, or w/e.
1858460;1538705856;asciilifeform;then this sounds 100% usable.
1858461;1538705856;mircea_popescu;byoa.
1858462;1538705928;asciilifeform;mod6 didja already assent to jurov's thing, or can we start one of these nao
1858463;1538705946;mircea_popescu;in any case to date danielpbarron 's been on the ball facilitating conversions also.
1858464;1538705949;mod6;It's already in motion.  Sent him the coins yesterday.
1858465;1538705955;asciilifeform;aite
1858466;1538705962;asciilifeform;next one we oughta do as mircea_popescu described tho
1858467;1538705970;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i wouldn't go back on a deal. but the past is the past, what's to keep you from doing more for the future.
1858468;1538705973;asciilifeform;and afaik no reason not to set it in motion nao
1858469;1538705976;mod6;Besides, we really need to get the money moving; even if we wanted to do an auction now, we need $5000.
1858470;1538706002;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was asking to see if there were a deal. apparently yes. and no we won't go back on it.
1858471;1538706008;mod6;I'm not confident that we could get that done as quickly as we need it.  I did ask, a lot if people were interested.  But no takers.  But anyone is free to start up an auction now.
1858472;1538706018;asciilifeform;but for next one oughta use mircea_popescu's bot, since he has no objection to auction of non-euloric goodies
1858473;1538706022;mod6;And we'd bid, because I'd like to have some extra cusion in our account down there.
1858474;1538706036;mircea_popescu;mod6 i think that's very sensible, have some cash on hand jic.
1858475;1538706042;asciilifeform;^
1858476;1538706069;mod6;I'd love it, make me a helluv a lot less nervous -- as I was for the last 10 days.
1858477;1538706133;mircea_popescu;and i expect as the thing starts getting some history behind it, time intervals can narrow out, removing most of the fx unpleasantness.
1858478;1538706143;mircea_popescu;and besides, a forwards btc market can't hurt anything.
1858479;1538706146;trinque;lol, shift-q is remarkably close to ctrl-w
1858480;1538706157;mircea_popescu;heck, half the fucking reason we even did pizarro was to get this going, if yo urecall.
1858481;1538706169;mircea_popescu;trinque i burn "close" shortcuts with plasma cutters.
1858482;1538706174;mircea_popescu;DUMBEST THING EVER.
1858483;1538706182;mircea_popescu;who the fuck ever closes anything, and if they do why;'d they open it.
1858484;1538706199;trinque;yeah, that one must die
1858485;1538706754;trinque;!Qauction 310080000 336 2000 usd WU
1858486;1538706755;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 366 STARTED by trinque: 2000 usd WU Opening: 310080000 coppers Ending: 2018-10-19 02:32:35 UTC (336 hours)
1858487;1538707052;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858434 << none whatsoever! same mechanism was famously used to sell a notebook i wrote in, and other things. the only fixed thing is the settlement point, and for good reason of the nature of macroeconomic wisdom.
1858488;1538707052;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 02:10 asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu dun actually have objection that the item being auctioned is not euloric ?
1858489;1538707064;asciilifeform;makes sense.
1858490;1538707092;mircea_popescu;i don't have a ready list of the many varieties of items therein sold, maybe lobbes keeps it as part of his eventual marketing efforts, but anyway. it's known diversity.
1858491;1538707098;mircea_popescu;one day may even sell slavegirls.
1858492;1538707102;mod6;!QBid 336 305763640
1858493;1538707102;lobbesbot;mod6: Error: Auction Id # 336 has ended
1858494;1538707110;mircea_popescu;mod6 366
1858495;1538707133;mod6;oh, was looking at the '336' line from trinque.  herp.
1858496;1538707141;mod6;!QBid 366 305763640
1858497;1538707141;lobbesbot;mod6: Error: Try bidding moar. Starting Bid is 310.08mn, you bid 305763640
1858498;1538707149;mircea_popescu;(for all the interested parties : lobbesbot announces the current slate of auctions hourly in #eulora, and privately on request. see the very useful manual lobbes wrote for it.)
1858499;1538707153;mod6;Oh, starting bid.  Got it.
1858500;1538707173;mod6;!QBid 366 310080000
1858501;1538707174;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 366: 2000 usd WU Heard: 310.08mn from mod6 Ending: 2018-10-19 02:32:35 UTC (335 hours 53 mins)
1858502;1538707220;mod6;we're off!
1858503;1538707227;trinque;cheers mod6 !
1858504;1538707243;mircea_popescu;hanbot do me a favour and add a wu thing for the fellows also. help the rocket along!
1858505;1538707328;lobbes;btw bot also accepts abbreviations such as 'k' and 'mn' (e.g. !Qbid 366 310.08mn)
1858506;1538707339;mod6;thx lobbesbot
1858507;1538707342;mircea_popescu;lol
1858508;1538707344;mod6;err, lobbes
1858509;1538707357;mod6;lol, thing tab-completes to the bot every time.
1858510;1538707361;mod6;gets me on the regular
1858511;1538707372;mircea_popescu;in point of fact this is a well oiled piece of machinery that we've fine tuned over year+ in the other hall.
1858512;1538707374;lobbes;and to remind: this current bot also will only announce in #eulora (I'm still debating about where new bot should annouce)
1858513;1538707378;mircea_popescu;and i'm quite satisfied with it as it stands.
1858514;1538707398;mircea_popescu;lobbes you wanna do eulora-and-your-castle sorta thing ?
1858515;1538707400;mod6;Works for me.
1858516;1538707411;asciilifeform;ok where's the castle
1858517;1538707419;lobbes;mircea_popescu: yeah, was thinkinging of allowing it to sit in n number of castles
1858518;1538707424;lobbes;*thinking
1858519;1538707430;mircea_popescu;i dun see a problem, if the owners wanna.
1858520;1538707432;asciilifeform;( i'd really like to not have to eat the spamola in #e , i'll admit )
1858521;1538707447;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, that'll only last till new deedbot :D
1858522;1538707454;asciilifeform;right
1858523;1538707485;asciilifeform;btw i'm beginning to think #e is the last chan being spammed... even shithole #linux-rockchip was left alone
1858524;1538707501;mircea_popescu;o noes.
1858525;1538707502;trinque;which reminds me http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1858058 << will scope this and report back.
1858526;1538707502;a111;Logged on 2018-10-04 15:47 mircea_popescu: aaand considering it's been coupla weeks, trinque care to put an eta on it ?
1858527;1538707508;mircea_popescu;ty!
1858528;1538729326;mircea_popescu;in other ideas : anyone wanna get a toll free us number & redirect it to here ? seems the better way to work that whole "or call xxx" angle.
1858529;1538730981;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=41 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/01/2018
1858530;1538736492;jurov;Hello, I am not sitting on bag of fiat to seek auctioning it off, but when anyone in my wot comes like "halp!!!" i will help them sell coins if possible.
1858531;1538736548;jurov;Next time if representative of public company does ask me this privately I'll go to forum. Lesson learned.
1858532;1538736941;jurov;My offer was in this case 6170 USD/BTC, with fiat wire sent within a week.
1858533;1538750115;asciilifeform;jurov: thx
1858534;1538750174;asciilifeform;jurov: we'll be using auctiontron nao, so won't need to ask folx for halp!! ideally.
1858535;1538754028;ave1;In more http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/, we get https://www.particlesforjustice.org/.
1858536;1538754764;diana_coman;aaand if I get it right, GNAT.CRC32 uses Ada.Streams.Stream_Element and it expects a String as input so overall it really sounds like back to GNAT.Sockets style, ugh
1858537;1538754797;diana_coman;as one might tell, I'm looking into using CRC in smg.comms as per latest spec
1858538;1538755376;ave1;diana_coman, gnat has system.CRC32, it consumes characters
1858539;1538755430;diana_coman;ave1, ah, the gnat.crc32 is just the stream on top of system.crc32?
1858540;1538755456;*;diana_coman looks
1858541;1538755515;diana_coman;right you are, yay!
1858542;1538755518;diana_coman;thank you ave1
1858543;1538755548;ave1;it looks like it yes
1858544;1538756508;asciilifeform;diana_coman: https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/s-crc32__adb.htm << pretty simple, you can even lift and civilize
1858545;1538756554;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes, that's where I went after ave1 pointed out that the gnat.crc32 is just a stream-wrapper
1858546;1538756988;diana_coman;I'm actually thinking whether to add a simple crc32(array of octets) -> unsigned_32 to EuCrypt; presumably it will be of larger utility anyway;
1858547;1538757024;diana_coman;so yes, lifting it
1858548;1538757072;asciilifeform;right, was what i pictured
1858549;1538757650;asciilifeform;diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
1858550;1538757723;asciilifeform;( imho the only situation where stream abstraction makes sense is when you have serial i/o of variably-sized crapola. to date i've used'em in only 1 piece, the classical-btc block/tx reader/writer , 'nqb' )
1858551;1538757803;asciilifeform;btw there's a 'fixed buffer <--> stream' item in there that prolly oughta get genesised, i expect it'll come in handy.
1858552;1538757823;BingoBoingo;In other local news: drug gang slowly took over public housing complex, used it to "warehouse" trivial quantity of drugs https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/desarticulan-clan-narco-que-tomo-complejo-de-casas-2018104203434
1858553;1538757914;BingoBoingo;Since this is a "public" building it remains to be seen if the bulldozers come out like they did for the ancient squat on the other side of the impoverished north
1858554;1538758980;mircea_popescu;jurov i suspected something like that happened.
1858555;1538759029;mircea_popescu;diana_coman nah, listen, just implement a crc32. it's very simple indeed, i quited the polynomial used, just divide by it and keep the change.
1858556;1538759073;mircea_popescu;we ~needed~ a republican crc32 anyway, it's useful and important, chapter head exactly like "we need a hash" or "we need a ffa", and i was aware extant code is not fit for pitching.
1858557;1538759097;mircea_popescu;a nm, already in log. doh.
1858558;1538759175;asciilifeform;btw one doesn't ~have~ to use table. (it's maybe 10-20x faster than not, depending on cpu, is why folx do. but when i crc on microcontrollers i dun use table, it eats coupla kB)
1858559;1538759289;mircea_popescu;imo we should have lookup version first and foremost. but if diana_coman has the time/inclination, implemnenting both isn't the end of world anyway.
1858560;1538759464;asciilifeform;meanwhile in vintagetrilema lotto , http://trilema.com/2015/basic-bitcoin-competency-certification/
1858561;1538759611;asciilifeform;^ would be interesting to read a new edition of this, if mircea_popescu ever feels inclined to bake one
1858562;1538759746;mircea_popescu;for srs.
1858563;1538759757;mircea_popescu;though honestly -- this might very well be a foundation item neh ?
1858564;1538759771;asciilifeform;easily
1858565;1538759773;mircea_popescu;certainly something the foundation could've been advertising itself as doing, lo these many years.
1858566;1538759779;mircea_popescu;if manned, i mean.
1858567;1538759791;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858552 << 0.2kg of 'white gold' doesn't seem 'trivial'... then again i am not subj expert
1858568;1538759791;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 16:43 BingoBoingo: In other local news: drug gang slowly took over public housing complex, used it to "warehouse" trivial quantity of drugs https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/desarticulan-clan-narco-que-tomo-complejo-de-casas-2018104203434
1858569;1538759810;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform he has a point, in that it's subpackaged.
1858570;1538759826;asciilifeform;ah hm.
1858571;1538759828;mircea_popescu;you can;t get it packaged in less than lb, and usually kg, on intl market.
1858572;1538759838;mircea_popescu;so in it being subunitary, it's properly called trivial.
1858573;1538759840;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: "white gold" is rare here. Usually cocaine in Uruguay refers to "pasta base" outside of Punta Del Este
1858574;1538759841;asciilifeform;so leaf node, then.
1858575;1538759847;mircea_popescu;prolly.
1858576;1538759878;asciilifeform;how big is a 'standard' snort's worth, anyway? 1g ?
1858577;1538759911;asciilifeform;( and 1g pre- or post- dilution ? )
1858578;1538759943;mircea_popescu;i'd gues 0.3
1858579;1538759980;mircea_popescu;anyway, the 0.2 was prolly first cut already. http://trilema.com/2013/what-the-drug-trade-is-how-the-drug-trade-works-and-why-silk-road-didnt-work-and-didnt-matter/#selection-87.78-87.104 <
1858580;1538759998;asciilifeform;makes sense
1858581;1538760025;mircea_popescu;so it prolly doesn't even count as "a fifth of a pack", more like "a twelfth"
1858582;1538760057;asciilifeform;iirc 'leaf nodes' are traditionally 'disposable' and never store substantial qty of anyffing
1858583;1538760115;asciilifeform;incidentally, i wonder why coke aficionados dun grow the plant themselves, the way potheads do
1858584;1538760130;asciilifeform;surely it would just as readily grow in glass house under lamp
1858585;1538760150;BingoBoingo;Plant's pickier. They call cannabis weed for a reason, just won't die
1858586;1538760156;mircea_popescu;too long cycle for their attention span.
1858587;1538760165;BingoBoingo;And somehow afficianados manage to still kill the plants
1858588;1538760186;mircea_popescu;also very much what BingoBoingo says. coke's harder than wheat, weed's easier than thistle.
1858589;1538760262;BingoBoingo;Happily grows and lives full life anywhere from roadside ditches to red solo cups in basements
1858590;1538760289;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i was under impression that the 'cultured', oil-rich variant were tricker
1858591;1538760291;asciilifeform;*trickier
1858592;1538760320;asciilifeform;( and that the ditch-growing variant dun do much when taken )
1858593;1538760354;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: From my understanding and interviews the more desirable cultivars are just as happy to live and grow. All the wank around them simply appears to be optimization problems.
1858594;1538760364;asciilifeform;hm.
1858595;1538760365;BingoBoingo;Or basement insanity projects
1858596;1538760417;BingoBoingo;Where they end up slow cooking plants like deli rotisserie chicken and scream "Too Hard"
1858597;1538760451;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858535 << hey, i was right, HOW SHOCKING.
1858598;1538760451;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 15:40 ave1: In more http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/, we get https://www.particlesforjustice.org/.
1858599;1538760462;mircea_popescu;nobody's cancelled that, by the way. get out, you're wasting your life.
1858600;1538760467;asciilifeform;and hah, rumour is that somebody baked glyphosate-resistant coca
1858601;1538760509;mircea_popescu;yup. happened years ago.
1858602;1538760528;mircea_popescu;bout three or four years after they started giving monsanto columbia's tax money for no reason.
1858603;1538760535;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform:  Aficianados also specifically want unfertilized flowers, so creating male free environments is another optimization wank drawing substantial faffs
1858604;1538760551;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'for smart arse, threaded cock will be found' eh.
1858605;1538760601;mircea_popescu;but yes, he's also correct. most of the "difficulty" is forum-wank, whereby the kids that can ride a bike tell the kids underage watching in amazement what incredible skill it takes to ride a bike.
1858606;1538760625;mircea_popescu;very male-adolescent schelling point, rarely missed.
1858607;1538760647;asciilifeform;!#s ricing
1858608;1538760648;a111;3 results for "ricing", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ricing
1858609;1538760649;asciilifeform;^ see also.
1858610;1538760669;mircea_popescu;(i suspect the whole reason us culture is so gender-awkward, btw, is that sometime (in the 1880s ?) older kids told younger kids "how hard it is" and it stuck as part of the culture in that culture-less place.)
1858611;1538760765;BingoBoingo;To be fair the latest western US forum wank on the subject is butane extraction of active ingredients from the lowers, while... ethanol extraction of the same active ingredients is rumoured to work. That wank is still prolly a good 2 to 5 years out from Uruguay though
1858612;1538760798;mircea_popescu;dude of course tincture works. it has worked for ~500 years.
1858613;1538760819;BingoBoingo;And yet... the folks keep rediscovering without reading
1858614;1538760842;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=42 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/02/2018
1858615;1538760851;mircea_popescu;pretty much what got alchemy even started, iranians getting perfume extracted in dilute ethanol. TWENTY FIVE HUNDRED YEARS AGO
1858616;1538760889;mircea_popescu;strange notions of "essence" and "ousia" and what have you -- they're all euro reverberations of "middle earth got this perfume thing going!?!?!?!"
1858617;1538760970;*;BingoBoingo prolly ought to try compiling general tourist information/anthropology overview on the subject
1858618;1538761013;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 << trying to universalize incorrectly. i think the greater part of design problems come from people picking the wrong "universal" to hitch on to.
1858619;1538761013;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 16:40 asciilifeform: diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
1858620;1538761177;mircea_popescu;let me reiterate http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858528?
1858621;1538761177;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 08:48 mircea_popescu: in other ideas : anyone wanna get a toll free us number & redirect it to here ? seems the better way to work that whole "or call xxx" angle.
1858622;1538761460;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc ethanol extracts various impurities along with the desired oil; hence various liquid-gas exotica
1858623;1538761507;mircea_popescu;yes well.
1858624;1538761517;BingoBoingo;Anyways, the point is the cannabis forum wankers essentially invented their own Monsanto in the same way Linus and the men alone invented their own Microshit
1858625;1538761532;mircea_popescu;that strikes me as eerily accurate.
1858626;1538761560;BingoBoingo;It's what would be alt-Republics seem to do
1858627;1538761622;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858618 >> hence :
1858628;1538761622;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 17:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 << trying to universalize incorrectly. i think the greater part of design problems come from people picking the wrong "universal" to hitch on to.
1858629;1538761625;asciilifeform;!#s notation worth iq
1858630;1538761626;a111;5 results for "notation worth iq", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=notation%20worth%20iq
1858631;1538761741;asciilifeform;moreover, i suspect that the fixation on, and abuse of, 'streams', really flows from the orig unix retardation where 'errything is a file' and otherwise ~0 useful abstractions available at all
1858632;1538761768;mircea_popescu;quite possibly.
1858633;1538761808;BingoBoingo;On the plus side if you want to do non-narcotic houseplants or balcony vegetables in Uruguay, the quality of potting soil here is extraordinary compared to the shit in old country
1858634;1538761960;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re tollfree thing : i found several vendors who will forward voice to a voip thing 'anywhere on globe'. can get quotes if you like, tonight/earlytomorrow. do you have whom to pick it up ?
1858635;1538761987;mircea_popescu;here too.
1858636;1538761995;mircea_popescu;they import german stuff i've never seen outside of germany.
1858637;1538762011;asciilifeform;ah hm i thought mircea_popescu specifically wanted a usa #
1858638;1538762013;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ima use your flame, nikki.
1858639;1538762019;asciilifeform;but if can be bought from mircea_popescustan...
1858640;1538762032;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform  i was talking re potting soil.
1858641;1538762036;asciilifeform;lol!
1858642;1538762050;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re: 800 phone -- the only headache i foresee is that it needs good 100%-uptimed net pipe
1858643;1538762056;mircea_popescu;anyway, by all means, get an us toll free number, ima provide endpoint here later todayh.
1858644;1538762061;mircea_popescu;why net ?
1858645;1538762075;asciilifeform;is how they avoid being raped by orc telco charge
1858646;1538762088;mircea_popescu;ie i gotta get some sort of voip going ?
1858647;1538762101;asciilifeform;looks like needed for it to work economically.
1858648;1538762121;mircea_popescu;alrighty well let's get details on this.
1858649;1538762139;asciilifeform;i'ma dig up the reqd detail tonight.
1858650;1538762143;mircea_popescu;ty
1858651;1538762176;asciilifeform;( seems to me to be a) doable b) quickly c) good , potentially , bang for the bux -- which is rare combo )
1858652;1538762190;mircea_popescu;me too, but generally the assrape is in the details.
1858653;1538762197;mircea_popescu;wires also used to be abc.
1858654;1538762198;asciilifeform;right
1858655;1538762209;mircea_popescu;and i guess particle physics.
1858656;1538762218;asciilifeform;btw i seem to recall that we had one of these, briefly
1858657;1538762222;asciilifeform;moiety's thing
1858658;1538762227;mircea_popescu;chick went stupid suddenly.
1858659;1538762240;mircea_popescu;"oh, gotta get a real job". i'm sure she's rotting in some half-employment as we speak.
1858660;1538762245;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> they import german stuff i've never seen outside of germany. << The one I've been using is a local product. Thoroughly composted and fluffy with ample perlite. Has a mariuana leaf on the bag even.
1858661;1538762267;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc moiety was an outpatient tho. perhaps will have better luck with current trainee.
1858662;1538762269;mircea_popescu;but how hard is to break the mother mula conditioning, and always put hands on your tits under the shirt, rather than always try to remove same.
1858663;1538762286;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what fucking perhaps.
1858664;1538762316;asciilifeform;i have nfi. can only hope she is better at answering pnoje than digesting log
1858665;1538762333;mircea_popescu;omfg... dig yourself in deeper!
1858666;1538762592;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu : re the pot extractors -- i wonder if an effect similar to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857757 is in play
1858667;1538762592;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 19:52 asciilifeform: ( pharmacologically also interesting : old-school opium 'smokers' ( wasn't actually smoked, it was sublimated in a device resembling today's 'crack pipe', and pretty 'high tech' procedure, look at photo of the kit some time ) -- the moar active components of the vegetable -- morphine & relateds -- didn't make it out of the pipe bowl, broke down, so theoretically the chinese were actually doing a somewhat different dope than today's j
1858668;1538762621;asciilifeform;i.e. different processes give diff combos of the orig vegetable's poisons, and result in diff effect
1858669;1538762622;mircea_popescu;entirely possiobly. i never cared enough about pot to break out the thin layer cromatographs and shit.
1858670;1538762644;asciilifeform;me neither, but apparently there's ~2dozen diff items in'ere.
1858671;1538762658;mircea_popescu;well yes. it's a fucking plant. that's what they do.
1858672;1538762674;mircea_popescu;there's 2 dozen in eggplant, also, and in everything else.
1858673;1538762713;asciilifeform;aha. there's a reason herbivores have mega-liver
1858674;1538762721;mircea_popescu;right.
1858675;1538762804;asciilifeform;btw according to 1 source, the opium people were actually 'class-stratified' in that poorfucks smoked 'recycled' crud, containing moar morphine , and got stupider ( vs the elite, who took in 'prime' material, never heated previously )
1858676;1538762840;mircea_popescu;i dunno about the stupider angle. principal function of indian opium in chinese society was civilised (by their lights) old man gc.
1858677;1538762850;mircea_popescu;and, for the record, this MAY be the oldest trade.
1858678;1538762879;asciilifeform;prolly not quite oldest, the sublimator pipe was a 17th c invention, and preceded by tobacco
1858679;1538762900;mircea_popescu;yes, but the indian balls of black spice travelled before 3k bc.
1858680;1538762914;asciilifeform;possibly. dunno how they were used tho.
1858681;1538762928;mircea_popescu;nor does anyone. they azns are terrible at ancient record keeping.
1858682;1538762965;asciilifeform;egyptians, iirc, we know to have eaten it.
1858683;1538762981;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1858684;1538763090;asciilifeform;i suspect there's something to the 'fractional distillation' hypothesis -- there's ample record of chinese emperors, officials, & their concubines, doing opium 'to amplify fuck', which as i understand is not compatible with morphinism as it is known to modern industrial dopeheads
1858685;1538763177;asciilifeform;... whereas the 'dens' that europeans ended up seeing, were fulla folx who had problem standing up, much less fuck...
1858686;1538763183;mircea_popescu;i don't know they were doing opium.
1858687;1538763212;mircea_popescu;chinese is fucking terrible at specificity of terms, between "she cow pig had kittens" and "alf put opium in his food" because opium is a spice and so is cardamom...
1858688;1538763220;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc the records use term 'black fragrance'. which at least later came to refer to subj.
1858689;1538763232;asciilifeform;but without time machine, hard to say if were opium , or combo, or something entirely else.
1858690;1538763238;mircea_popescu;yes, but i very much do not trust chinese. as a language i mean, and as a cultural process.
1858691;1538763245;asciilifeform;me neither.
1858692;1538763266;asciilifeform;~very~ difficult to work with as a coherent record of anyffing. sorta an anti-l0gz.
1858693;1538763283;asciilifeform;and, maddeningly, they seem to be aware of it, and prize it.
1858694;1538763360;mircea_popescu;the problem discussed in http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/#selection-297.0-297.795 the chinese have managed to bake ~into the language~.
1858695;1538763439;asciilifeform;they achieved it from opposite end tho
1858696;1538763450;asciilifeform;as i understand their language consists more or less wholesale of... l0g refs
1858697;1538763453;mircea_popescu;the euros attempted a ~similar thing with http://trilema.com/2018/the-problem-with-christians/#selection-61.0-65.669 but the chinese had longer to do it.
1858698;1538763460;asciilifeform;( from ancient elite l0gz )
1858699;1538763477;BingoBoingo;Gotta make sure you are an honored ancestor for passing down which black spice makes the rice taste better and which black spice kills the old folks as they drip spacekitten pig balls
1858700;1538763482;mircea_popescu;consequently, i don't trust a single word they write down to mean anything in particular, exactly like "how do you know democrat is lying -- his lips are moving" and "why do you have no faith in the xtian church"
1858701;1538763534;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this may be ; but as far as i can see, chinese is 100% "insurance-against-future" by mass. specifically : if py yi shi ki comes to mean the bad, then it never meant that in the first place. but until it does -- it means!
1858702;1538763564;mircea_popescu;hence all that undersexed boyish scrotum scent i was detecting, in eg "dao".
1858703;1538763602;asciilifeform;the ethertard 'dao' or the earlier cn one ?
1858704;1538763610;asciilifeform;( or both ? )
1858705;1538763627;mircea_popescu;the cn one specifically. was discussion with phf, im trying to fish it out
1858706;1538763644;mircea_popescu;whereby i protested specifically the idiotically adolescent onemanship, "oh, bla bla bla".
1858707;1538763651;mircea_popescu;upmanship* i mean.
1858708;1538763768;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1541918 << possibl thread
1858709;1538763768;a111;Logged on 2016-09-14 18:43 phf: people who can't clearly visualize a cause and effect graph trying to do science. dogen is laughing at them all the way from 13th century
1858710;1538763776;mircea_popescu;na na
1858711;1538763961;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-08#1499583 <-> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754340 apparently this is a thread that got meanwhile lost. but discussion was evidently pre mid 2016
1858712;1538763961;a111;Logged on 2016-07-08 14:37 mircea_popescu: fucking "take moar oestrogen" confucius & "wanna hear our inept teenage boyish oneupmanships" zeo-dan derps.
1858713;1538763961;a111;Logged on 2017-12-19 17:24 mircea_popescu: cheap "cleverness" of the male virginarium aka monastery ; in same vein see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-08#1499583
1858714;1538764064;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2012-08-13#-323008 << ancient lulz in the process.
1858715;1538764064;a111;Logged on 2012-08-13 03:08 mircea_popescu: mtgox from what i understand is losing money, but even so they prolly have more in cash.
1858716;1538764071;mircea_popescu;(this was true, at the time, btw.)
1858717;1538764508;BingoBoingo;Anyways, Chinese language explains Avalon's Cartman moment when they began shipping ASICs among many other things
1858718;1538764629;mircea_popescu;"Sadly one can't mend a tear in the space-time continuum with needle and thread, and similarily one can't repair the fundamental immorality of christianity by superficial moralizing."
1858719;1538764645;mircea_popescu;dude ... i really like my articles. that one is EXACTLY why christianity is despicable.
1858720;1538764656;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo surely.
1858721;1538764770;BingoBoingo;The Chinese pool operators agreeing to every different course of action during the Gavinassassinen fork wars, etc
1858722;1538764794;BingoBoingo;It boils down to speaking Chinese with English words
1858723;1538764873;mircea_popescu;recall when they "all agreed" then all didn't do, and every anglotard was surprised at this outcome, and every sinoderp was surprised at the surprise ?
1858724;1538764905;BingoBoingo;I do in deed.
1858725;1538765053;BingoBoingo;And remember how as the anglotards were growing up, all their schools "focused" on teaching cross cultural literacy
1858726;1538765224;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 -> precisely why I kept scratching my head at encountering it as a sort of "preferred"/standard stuff in GNAT; honestly I think it was a ...fashion, everything all of a sudden had to be a stream at some point
1858727;1538765224;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 16:40 asciilifeform: diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
1858728;1538765259;mircea_popescu;possibru
1858729;1538765474;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858557 -> heh; kind of why I tend to do the replies all at the end rather than as I read them though it's less convenient
1858730;1538765474;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 17:04 mircea_popescu: a nm, already in log. doh.
1858731;1538766204;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's the 'unix philosophy' sad.
1858732;1538766226;asciilifeform;diana_coman: bell labs invented exactly 1 os pheature, and it became 'the hammer for all screws'
1858733;1538766284;diana_coman;can be
1858734;1538766302;asciilifeform;they took it to even moar ridiculous heights in 'plan9'
1858735;1538766547;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform is not aficionado of 'plan9', but will note that it achieved 1 thing -- was, at its mid-2000s peak, 10x smaller LOC-wise than linux )
1858736;1538766584;diana_coman;I must say that I am ...blissfully unaware of it
1858737;1538766598;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's quite obscure, never took off industrially
1858738;1538766648;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/retired-fbi-agent-intimidated-witness-in-attempt-to-manipulate-political-process/ << Qntra - Retired FBI Agent Intimidated Witness In Attempt To Manipulate Political Process
1858739;1538766680;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: s/nuetral/neutral
1858740;1538766704;BingoBoingo;ty, fxd
1858741;1538767923;mod6;trinque: Looks like the date that your auction closes I'll be busy and not able to settle with you myself.
1858742;1538767949;mod6;BingoBoingo: Please just enter a bid from yourself on behalf of Pizarro for 1 satoshi more than I bid.
1858743;1538767960;mod6;And I think you can just handle the thing then.  Thanks.
1858744;1538767998;trinque;I'm not gonna be pissed if you can't handle it same day. Thanks for letting me know.
1858745;1538768075;BingoBoingo;!QBid 366 310080001
1858746;1538768075;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 366: 2000 usd WU Heard: 310.08mn from BingoBoingo overbidding mod6 Ending: 2018-10-19 02:32:35 UTC (318 hours 57 mins)
1858747;1538768079;BingoBoingo;mod6: done
1858748;1538768083;mod6;Perfect, thanks Sir.
1858749;1538773982;asciilifeform;!Q later tell mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ql56A/?raw=true
1858750;1538773982;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1858751;1538778351;Mocky;a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
1858752;1538779694;asciilifeform;Mocky: ssh tunnel
1858753;1538779857;Mocky;asciilifeform, ok thx
1858754;1538781376;asciilifeform;Mocky: 'web proxy' is ssltronic garbage in all cases. what you want is general-purpose proxy, and atm that's ssh tunnel.
1858755;1538781555;asciilifeform;e.g.:   ssh -f -L LOCALHOSTPORT:THIRDPARTYBOX:THIRDPARTYPORT YOURREMOTEBOX -N
1858756;1538781592;asciilifeform;^ and after that you can e.g. http or irc to locahost:LOCALHOSTPORT and get to THIRDPARTYBOX:THIRDPARTYPORT via YOURREMOTEBOX
1858757;1538781833;Mocky;ok
1858758;1538781850;asciilifeform;for moar complex/auto-restarting example, see also http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000252.html article
1858759;1538781926;Mocky;cloudfront 504 on that link atm
1858760;1538781931;asciilifeform;urgh
1858761;1538781949;asciilifeform;Mocky: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uKGVw/?raw=true until the damn thing moves off shitazon
1858762;1538781970;Mocky;asciilifeform, ty
1858763;1538782102;asciilifeform;Mocky: fwiw i very rarely use tunnels as such, usually makes moar sense to simply use browser etc on the remote box via ordinary ssh
1858764;1538782128;asciilifeform;'screen' proggy is handy there.
1858765;1538782166;asciilifeform;the tunnel thing is for if you find yourself in some fascist bananistan that blocks fleanode etc
1858766;1538787920;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in vintage/classic lulz, http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/mobp/
1858767;1538795174;asciilifeform;http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/ipfrag.txt << related lulgem.
1858768;1538797972;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform imo that avoxi item sounds fine. send you # ?
1858769;1538797972;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: Sent 6 hours and 39 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ql56A/?raw=true
1858770;1538798080;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858751 << you can just run curl ?
1858771;1538798080;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 22:25 Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
1858772;1538798148;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: plox then to gpggram, i'ma setup when i wake
1858773;1538799019;danielpbarron;!!up anniez
1858774;1538799020;deedbot;anniez voiced for 30 minutes.
1858775;1538799024;anniez;hh
1858776;1538799213;mircea_popescu;will do.
1858777;1538805519;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=43 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/03/2018
1858778;1538835187;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858751 << my preferred method is to `ssh -D 8080 host` which sets up a socks proxy with port 8080 on your local machine and outbound on the `host`. you can then configure e.g. firefox to send everything through that proxy
1858779;1538835187;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 22:25 Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
1858780;1538835261;Mocky;right, ok
1858781;1538835264;phf;i assume in this case your proxy is as secure as your ssh, you can do it on demand, and you can also run it against any of your remote hosts.
1858782;1538835346;phf;it also helps to have a machine where you have ssh sitting on port 80, for when you are on e.g. hotel internet with a dumb firewall
1858783;1538835388;mircea_popescu;of course, if the place you're in makes this necessary, it is MUCH better to set ssh on port 80 on the local machine and just proceed.
1858784;1538835400;mircea_popescu;doh! i gotta take typing classes.
1858785;1538835710;Mocky;yeah mircea_popescu, your level of text output needs a boost...
1858786;1538835727;mircea_popescu;kids today and this sarcasm thing!
1858787;1538835746;Mocky;"kids"
1858788;1538835838;mircea_popescu;o yeah ?! WELL THE OCEAN CALLED...
1858789;1538835916;phf;Mocky: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gmsRV/?raw=true you could set these options in firefox's about:config (there's probably a way to do it through gui), they are self explanatory. the last one ensures that dns is routed through socks. the first one can be either 1 or 0. i usually just go into about:config and toggle that to 1 when i need socks (there are probably extensions, etc. etc.)
1858790;1538835954;mircea_popescu;o hey, nice.
1858791;1538835968;Mocky;oh thx phf
1858792;1538836010;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in things that'll prolly need mirroring : https://backports.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page & http://drvbp1.linux-foundation.org/~mcgrof/rel-html/backports/ (lol).
1858793;1538836070;phf;i learned to jump through these hoops for the motherland
1858794;1538836075;mircea_popescu;brought about by y.t. fixing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854603 through generous application of sewed out linux-wireless-compat-blabla. turns out the aeteron pci board included (mysteriously dubbed "revision 0032") works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only.
1858795;1538836075;a111;Logged on 2018-09-26 00:18 mircea_popescu: in the end, useless hp box found new life as heroes 2 playstation.
1858796;1538836112;mircea_popescu;by the looks of it, wireless cards on laptops work with os wireless drivers from a 3 to 6 months period around their release. gotta get teh right timing.
1858797;1538836244;mircea_popescu;now, why the fuck would chamberlain choose to only publish a dozen or so of the compat modules, i couldn't guess. but the list there is woefully incomplete, the story goes back at least to 2.4 kernels.
1858798;1538836274;diana_coman;I'll soon do the regrind of eucrypt to move it on to keccak hashes; my plan is to keep the patches precisely as they are otherwise (i.e. including NO manifest until I actually added it at the end); the way I see it, it's just a swap-in-place of one hash for another; if anyone sees this sort of thing differently - since I'm hmmm,first to regrind a big project? - yell now !
1858799;1538836294;mircea_popescu;seems fine diana_coman
1858800;1538836415;mircea_popescu;(nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
1858801;1538836572;mircea_popescu;"but mp, you don't understand how the world works" "what is the meaning of '''new''' in the context of '''similar enough to old for this scheme to work''' "oh, it doesn't PROMISE to stay that way! this pile just works as long as it does!" "which isn't a promise ? and if it stops working, what, time for linux-backports-compat-compat, a set of scripts to update the set of scripts that updates...?" "YES!"
1858802;1538836666;mircea_popescu;it's seem to me that by the semantics of the bizarro world these gnus inhabit, something working is a promise for that something to keep working. because the criteria by which they use things is "hey -- it works" ("we believe in rough consensus and working code", in in-universe terms), and therefore... everything that ever works thereby promises to keep on working indefinitely and for any possible usecase.
1858803;1538836705;mircea_popescu;now, why the fuck they'd use an implicit grammar-lexicon bundle like this, i have no fucking idea. but the fact that they ~shouldn't~ (which they should not) is NOT opposable to me! since they do, i have my argument!
1858804;1538836722;diana_coman;more like they don't have a notion of "working indefinitely" or even of more than tomorrow
1858805;1538836740;mircea_popescu;which makes the whole item self-contradictory.
1858806;1538836754;mircea_popescu;in the end, "foss" is not any more coherent, or intellectually respectable, than christianity.
1858807;1538836814;diana_coman;oh, was it supposed to be coherent and not self-contradictory? I missed that part,lol
1858808;1538837003;mircea_popescu;all the problems of computer "engineers" would be directly evident to any literary theorist / linguist / semiologist / gnoseologist / theorist of language / historian of philosophy / etcetera. except for the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1780289 problem, where they all preferred to chase the cuntherd instead of paying any attention whatsoever to the nonsense dribbling off the red stapler guys crowd.
1858809;1538837003;a111;Logged on 2018-02-02 22:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 he has no idea ; it's not expensive considering what the actual cost per round is. add in all the capital costs, including the fact you're wasting your time there rather than diddling the local highschool girls' volleyball team...
1858810;1538837047;mircea_popescu;so everyone who has any clue as to how any of this shit works and why is busy derping about "intersectional queeritude" among the DD/lg crowd of paci sucklers,
1858811;1538837063;mircea_popescu;while humanity's greatest discovery slowly grow moss.
1858812;1538837105;mircea_popescu;the soviet-ness of this epic wastage of resources is mindblowing.
1858813;1538837247;mircea_popescu;anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
1858814;1538837255;diana_coman;perhaps; I'm not sure though that current theorist/linguist/semiologist/gnoseologist/etc necessarily knows what they are supposed to know
1858815;1538837259;mircea_popescu;i almost felt like an alf for five minutes before running away screaming to the numeric method.
1858816;1538837298;mircea_popescu;diana_coman the situation somewhat salvaged by the happenstance that you can't be any of those under about 60 years of age or so. (with exceptions, but they're rare enough).
1858817;1538837329;asciilifeform;lol
1858818;1538837388;*;asciilifeform misread earlier as 'seismologist' and scratched head for a while 
1858819;1538837439;diana_coman;lol
1858820;1538837499;mircea_popescu;semiology, theory of signs, signifying and significance.
1858821;1538837663;phf;!#s umberto eco
1858822;1538837664;a111;6 results for "umberto eco", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=umberto%20eco
1858823;1538837695;asciilifeform;yes i know
1858824;1538837705;asciilifeform;was waking up.
1858825;1538837719;mircea_popescu;phf no that is the other one. semiology is the a c de saussure thing.
1858826;1538837729;mircea_popescu;not that this distinction's with THAT much difference in context.
1858827;1538837783;mircea_popescu;anyway. 1800s tech, is the idea.
1858828;1538837839;phf;dangerous, restricted for your own safety
1858829;1538837949;mircea_popescu;amusingly enough, i could see the paralel between alf's (not entirely unsuported in practice) notions of "useful physics -- turn of the century, einstein-centric" and "useless physics -- string theory" and semiology/semiotics.
1858830;1538837959;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858800 << they switched the userland abi, but 2.4 continued to live ( i've found that i still have at least 1 device in service where not only 2.4, but 2.4 that post-dates the release of 2.6 ) for many years, as it was moar compact and suitable for small iron than 2.6 ( which had better support for e.g. smp , but overall hog vs 2.4 )
1858831;1538837959;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 14:33 mircea_popescu: (nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
1858832;1538838026;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun know if i have the keys to where they keep the real semiology ( if mircea_popescu says that it exists , i'll believe him ) ; as it is, i hear the word and think 'lacan' and reach for luger
1858833;1538838032;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform afaik another (not as clearly delineated) change between 2.6 and >3.3, because shit "mysteriously" stops working.
1858834;1538838042;phf;i didn't know yuri lotman was a semiotician, back in high school i had to go to sleep with lotman literary analysis books, like those vietnam conscripts with their rifles
1858835;1538838099;mircea_popescu;phf afaik the tartu school not heretical.
1858836;1538838115;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: by my reckoning, some kinda pustule popped open at 2.7 and linus's merry men started taking liberties
1858837;1538838136;mircea_popescu;(large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
1858838;1538838292;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 being little more than "one line summary of structuralism" and so on.
1858839;1538838292;a111;Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
1858840;1538838348;asciilifeform;imho can tie the two threads together -- when linux folx stopped giving a shit about kernel size, they went to the same hell as when the physics people ditto
1858841;1538838372;asciilifeform;i.e. forgot commandment, 'first, do no bloat'
1858842;1538838399;mircea_popescu;this position is not without its merit. of course it also proposes literacy as the end of literature ("since they can write their shit to paper, they don't write anythingt worth remembering").
1858843;1538838431;mircea_popescu;but in the end -- no human invention was actually useful. just relatively useful.
1858844;1538838446;phf;i wonder if lotman's post-structuralism is same as the french, or if it's that only in a sense that it's post. anyway, this is cool and i'm going to pick up his other shit next time i'm in moscows
1858845;1538838474;mircea_popescu;phf i have nfi that such a thing as post-structuralism happened in ru. at any rate prior to nuland help.
1858846;1538838490;mircea_popescu;as far as i can discern, ru had delayed-structuralism, 50 years later.
1858847;1538838508;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'nuland help' was going pretty strong in 1980s.
1858848;1538838523;mircea_popescu;something like that. but this -- more of a 60s thing.
1858849;1538838545;phf;mircea_popescu: i'm reading english pediwikia, i assume it's wildly wrong.
1858850;1538838578;mircea_popescu;well, you're reading the spew of a markov process with expectations of terminologic propriety ?!
1858851;1538838586;mircea_popescu;may i recommend #eulora also ?
1858852;1538838609;asciilifeform;lol!
1858853;1538838661;mircea_popescu;but anyway, to revisit the literacy angle... "congrats on creating the music recording box, mr. tesla. the side benefit is that in a short time there won't be any musicians worth recording left, because of the competition to their craft your time travelling device produces will destroy the very economic reason for their continued existence".
1858854;1538838689;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858813 << this, btw, is quite ordinary picture in recent ~decade of iron. given as even humble nic is nao a multicore arm thing, and has own kernel, and sometimes whole MB of internal state, fulla vendor shitware; so yes, can wedge .
1858855;1538838689;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 14:47 mircea_popescu: anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
1858856;1538838693;mircea_popescu;black culture used to create music at a time white culture was no longer for the same reason as the above : they were poor and retarded and didn't have music time-travel boxes.
1858857;1538838734;mircea_popescu;there's nothing intrinsically black about jazz new orleans, except for the part where the black people were the only poor enough to still have to entertain themselves.
1858858;1538838742;mircea_popescu;ditto harlem and so on.
1858859;1538838805;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand, it was actually ~roll piano~ that nuked 'entertain self' music, rather than the scratchy phonograph of the time
1858860;1538838810;asciilifeform;but overall picture correct
1858861;1538838834;mircea_popescu;right.
1858862;1538838853;mircea_popescu;tesla invented the car anyway, i was just making a point, ~in the structuralist style~.
1858863;1538838865;asciilifeform;( radio -- welded the coffin shut )
1858864;1538839025;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: also entertaining , to read the thoughts of the folx baking early television, '20s, 'errybody will watch great theatre!'
1858865;1538839095;asciilifeform;the porcine idjicy of 'mass', was imho quite evident long ago, but 'tech' folx lived in denial.
1858866;1538839115;asciilifeform;recall alan kay and his proto-ipad, 'if they get tabletron, children will learn to logic'
1858867;1538839268;mircea_popescu;cuz smart people keep doing this http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/#selection-221.55-225.273 thing, whereby http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 : "i, the all-important lone mind in the universe, can't summon up an image of how the universe'd go if it were took somewhere it never went before, and therefore -- any nonsense i come up with is valid!"
1858868;1538839268;a111;Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
1858869;1538839316;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho simpler. the folx in question were labouring under ye olde christian delusion, where 'errybody got a soul'
1858870;1538839325;mircea_popescu;"what sort of blackguard would dare propose that if you give children dildos they'd put it in playdo ?! THAT IS NOT WHERE ID EVER STICK A DILDO! THIS IS WRONGOG!!!"
1858871;1538839331;phf;i wouldn't blame "children!" on alan kay though, he's a product of piaget's huge influence on post-hippie american academia
1858872;1538839367;asciilifeform;whereas it is the ~hindu~ who had the moar accurate picture -- that , sure, 'errybody soul', but some 70-90% have 'soul' from cockroach with 486dx upgrade pack
1858873;1538839382;mircea_popescu;phf "influence" in the sense of some morons that spoke neither french, nor german, nor italian. piaget was fucking swiss.
1858874;1538839409;mircea_popescu;if anyone dares talk of "mp's influence" in a century in fucking chinese, ima personally return with all my dead friends and feed them dead dumplings.
1858875;1538839422;phf;in russia they say "he hears the bells, but doesn't know where they are coming from"
1858876;1538839431;mircea_popescu;the dog ?
1858877;1538839449;asciilifeform;'слышит звон да не знает где он'
1858878;1538839456;asciilifeform;( rhyme in orig )
1858879;1538839522;*;mircea_popescu had heard this befoar as "the dog hears the bells, but doesn't understand where from". 
1858880;1538839769;phf;i'm not sure the dog part fits
1858881;1538839851;phf;the idea is that if you don't know the particular location from which the bells are ringing you will misinterpret their meaning
1858882;1538839963;phf;if it's a human who's hearing then the stress is on the meaning, where if it's a dog the stress becomes on the location (i.e. the dog would want to seek out the source)
1858883;1538840034;phf;but yeah "influence" of piaget as reduced to "children learn best through play"
1858884;1538840371;mircea_popescu;dogs are notoriously incapable of sound location. cats and humans very capable.
1858885;1538840436;mircea_popescu;but possibly meaning was different -- best i can tell the idea was that receptor is incapable of decoding message for substantive lack. usually applied in school context, "class bells draw some kids to class, has no effect on others" sorta thing.
1858886;1538840498;mircea_popescu;which "children learn best through play" is even true, but the catch is -- children do nothing else anyway. if they learn at all...
1858887;1538840790;mircea_popescu;re-reading this log, jesus everything gets jumbled by proximity. so : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858837 they = the tartu school ; next line entirely unrelated to this thread, going back upstack to "if mp has keys" alf complaint.
1858888;1538840790;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 15:02 mircea_popescu: (large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
1858889;1538841433;mircea_popescu;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jean_Piaget_in_Ann_Arbor.png << this pic of piaget-at-retirement-home perhaps best thing in context.
1858890;1538841435;mircea_popescu;dood's happy.
1858891;1538841588;mircea_popescu;ahh, this article. "Some examples [limited strictly to girls&faggots styles, because forcing the sisters to play victim in some sort of injuns&cowboys game is very much not what kids do first and foremost] of symbolic play include playing house, or having a tea party. "
1858892;1538841656;mircea_popescu;i kinda like the femtard rewrite of piaget. it's something i always wanted to see in my formative years, "what if there was a monastery of mongoloids somewhere, and they hand-copied the texts '''as best they cou;d''' ?". it'd have been solid gold for the anthropologist / historian of religion, back when he still cared. but... no such thing.
1858893;1538841853;mircea_popescu;until, of course, post-computerist age, when https://news.artnet.com/art-world/botched-restoration-of-jesus-fresco-miraculously-saves-spanish-town-197057 and of course wikipedia and so on.
1858894;1538842010;phf;hehe it's true, whatever learned through cliffsnotes, rewritten "in own words", with the originals on a bookshelf as totems of learning
1858895;1538842079;mircea_popescu;it';s something else.
1858896;1538842105;mircea_popescu;very much apropos, http://trilema.com/2013/so-are-they-really-about-to-fuck/
1858897;1538842147;mircea_popescu;because no, it's not such an idle question as all that -- there is a whole subset of four-five ish to maybe sixish year olds who genuinely look like they're just about to fuck but for the lack of functional organs and knowledge of function.
1858898;1538842288;mircea_popescu;children indeed do not nor ever do play "tea party" without insistent adult intervention -- and even then not long past its cessation. but children very much do play something errily akin to what today'd pass for "bdsm" accuplation, male dominated, female receptive sorta thing.
1858899;1538842768;mircea_popescu;and thanks fucking dog for the trilema, otherwise i'd be pretty hard pressed to make that whole 2013 point in the narrow space between two irc lines. or for that matter narrow time.
1858900;1538842783;phf;every "tea party" i've ever been invited to degraded very rapidly once parents were satisfied with their cursory inspection and left us alone. at the time i was convinced it was my doing, but now i realize that the cover up is the format
1858901;1538842852;mircea_popescu;just about.
1858902;1538843027;mircea_popescu;(the "best they could" line is, who could have ever guessed, a throwback to "il joue comme il peut, le pauvre" line in le petit baigneur. because i speak french, what! and "speak" dun mean "my hoovercraft is fulla eels", not here anyway.)
1858903;1538843876;diana_coman;phf, I've uploaded the updated keccak .vpatches for EuCrypt, let me know if there's any trouble: http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-39.0-41.16
1858904;1538843947;phf;diana_coman: kk, will test and upload
1858905;1538844037;phf;apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
1858906;1538844088;phf;open question for forum ^
1858907;1538844174;mircea_popescu;i frankly do not perceive we have a bootstrapping problem. bootstrapping occurs when you have to turn a primitive into an ulterior -- there is such a thing as a bootstrapping problem of the fetus into adulthood because all adults start as foetii.
1858908;1538844200;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, sha is historical accident, nothing starts as it, thence no boot. therefore -- just publish it self referentially and who dun like can go to hell.
1858909;1538844220;asciilifeform;phf: i dun see what's wrong with signed tar
1858910;1538844327;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i gotta disagree re 'nothing starts as it', there is a history, and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851660 is a thing
1858911;1538844327;a111;Logged on 2018-09-19 15:18 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i like the new v format, but i also very strongly wish to avoid coming to resemble the urbit people, with their 'aah we restarted the universe for the 7th time'
1858912;1538844342;BingoBoingo;I see not reason not to go with the tar seeing how gnupatch is enemy materials
1858913;1538844408;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but i mean, what's the boot sequence here contemplated ?
1858914;1538844426;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc phf previously had a thing that pressed with old v, to create the new. imho this is proper.
1858915;1538844446;mircea_popescu;can i have the boot sequence ?
1858916;1538844447;asciilifeform;but also gotta have a tar, there is no reason to force newcomers to set up ancient v prior to getting hold of the current.
1858917;1538844456;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1858918;1538844475;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 2 boot sequences -- one for machines with old v ( and for dedicated historians who want whole history ) and other for the rest.
1858919;1538844531;mircea_popescu;but phf, who is the author of the thing, did not in fact lose his head and arm by the process of having released the "original" ie sha version. he can just as much authorship a "new" ie, keccak version. and it'll be EXACTLY as much a genesis as that was, in ALL respects.
1858920;1538844566;mircea_popescu;ie, that there's a relationship between "old" and "new" is a tenuous point, if by relationship is meant more than "phf wrote"
1858921;1538844576;asciilifeform;and it will be. but good chunk of the win from v, is to avoid offloading the work of 'is this the same or not' to meat, when it can be done 100% reliably by the mechanism.
1858922;1538844604;mircea_popescu;in the sense that you suspect he might be trustworthy in general, but a liar as to that specific narrowly construed topic ?
1858923;1538844611;asciilifeform;if it is actually same, this is trivially verified. but gotta have the simple mechanism there, rather than 'go write bash script'
1858924;1538844619;mircea_popescu;(notwithstanding how the narrow construction obviously reflects your own measuring tools and naught else ?)
1858925;1538844639;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a mechanically verifiable fact, when verifiable trivially, is superior to promise from anybody.
1858926;1538844654;mircea_popescu;if "phf signed" is ~not~ enough proof to you, then why is "phf signed" enough proof to you that his vtools doesn't come alive at night andf fuck my wife ?
1858927;1538844671;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i do not agree that heuristic is useful.
1858928;1538844688;asciilifeform;phf can make mistake and sign a broken piece, just as asciilifeform on at least 1 occasion did
1858929;1538844705;mircea_popescu;and you want to build a State around protecting him thusly from himself ?
1858930;1538844726;asciilifeform;what state. simple mechanism, like pin.
1858931;1538844735;asciilifeform;or does mircea_popescu like those german grenades without pins.
1858932;1538844750;mircea_popescu;the best definition i currently have for "State" is "collection of simple mechanisms without actual function".
1858933;1538844786;asciilifeform;maintaining hard-continuity of history is nearly whole point, as i see it , of vtronics.
1858934;1538844812;mircea_popescu;this is true ; but in this case there's no continuity to be maintained. phf is the sole contributor of the entire tree.
1858935;1538844848;mircea_popescu;pretty much ~any~ regrind, regenesis, etc of this item bearing his signature is ~idempotent~ to extant material.
1858936;1538844856;asciilifeform;phf can, of course, release anyffing he likes, incl. to take an old proggy and make new genesis, and say 'any relation b/w this new and that there old, is happenstance'.
1858937;1538844861;asciilifeform;but imho this loses something valuable.
1858938;1538844868;asciilifeform;i try to avoid it when possible.
1858939;1538844884;mircea_popescu;kinda the "what exactly" delineation is the point of this discussion. obv the actual case is relatively unimportant.
1858940;1538844923;mircea_popescu;so -- what exactly is lost if phf just signs and publishes a new tree ?
1858941;1538844947;mircea_popescu;i could see the direct "well -- i had read his old one ; dun wanna re-read the new one, if it's same." but... i thought re-reading was one of our values ?
1858942;1538844960;asciilifeform;simple : that if i find that it doesn't work quite same as previous, i nao have to consider hypothesis that phf made a mistake.
1858943;1538844970;asciilifeform;and read whole thing, or at least diff it manually
1858944;1538844981;mircea_popescu;"yes mp, but best used other places, it's still expensive" "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?" "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
1858945;1538845001;asciilifeform;rereading is great, but it isn't cost-free. if i sit down to reread trb , i'ma have to come back in a ~year
1858946;1538845062;mircea_popescu;right. then it follows, "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?". is your retort here what i imaginarily quoted, "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
1858947;1538845087;asciilifeform;trust allah, but tie camel.
1858948;1538845159;mircea_popescu;i frankly don't see much problem with it either way ; but i will say that your lie-detectors suffer from a certain naivite, whereby they're tuned to catch reality lying (ie, something that has no reflexivity, will lie regardless of your apparatus). this is not so useful with people.
1858949;1538845184;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in re regrinds in particular, i am more thinking of mistakes, than lies
1858950;1538845186;mircea_popescu;which is why the joib of research scientist and science educator diverges : you teach people by permitting them to get themselves caught. women, too.
1858951;1538845281;asciilifeform;asciilifeform does not have a stable of slaves to manually diff things. and so if at any point it appears to be necessary to hand-diff something, he is stuck doing it with own hands, and on that day, week, month, nuffing else of any use will come off conveyor.
1858952;1538845310;mircea_popescu;i somehow doubt re-reading his vtools is such a waste ; but anyways!
1858953;1538845313;asciilifeform;so from that pov , if it is possible to inexpensively avoid the situation, it is a win.
1858954;1538845333;asciilifeform;recall the thread with the tabs & spaces.
1858955;1538845354;mircea_popescu;alf did not go to school of scholarly beauty, "oh, that is the best one you've made so far, here, let me break it up for you and do it again".
1858956;1538845381;asciilifeform;this worx great for theorems, algos, but not so much for MB of coad soup
1858957;1538845383;mircea_popescu;in diff life, alf will be convicted to be painter, go through above process, lose mind.
1858958;1538845419;asciilifeform;( phf's item, in particular, incorporates a heavily cut but still pretty crufty ball of gnu c. this is not a stab at phf , but imho is a pertinent fact re 'cost of reading' )
1858959;1538845439;mircea_popescu;maybe the sadness of re-read forces you to fix some!
1858960;1538845452;asciilifeform;reread is great, but it is important for the work to actually be ~cumulative~
1858961;1538845470;mircea_popescu;as long as you patch on his keccak tree i can't see how it could not be.
1858962;1538845547;asciilifeform;cuz meat is a poor substitute for diff util. ( and diff util, in turn, is poor substitute for continuous v-sequence. )
1858963;1538845598;asciilifeform;even setting aside 'if phf made mistake', it is not physically impossible for bit to flip on his hdd at the moment of signing regrind.
1858964;1538845628;mircea_popescu;what's not physically impossible is that his code would greatly benefit from another read by an alf infuriated by the chore. but anyways!
1858965;1538845922;asciilifeform;tangentially on-thread, it still bothers asciilifeform that he was unable to represent the diff b/w mircea_popescu's bitcoin-0.5.3.tar.gz and the genesis as a vpatch ( neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion of binariolade... )
1858966;1538845967;asciilifeform;( either its deletion, or its insertion -- therefore impossible to encode the contents of that tar, as a genesis )
1858967;1538846208;asciilifeform;... or, in same vein, the thing i ended up having to do in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=fg case
1858968;1538846251;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1858969;1538850320;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858905 -> why would you use gnu patch?
1858970;1538850320;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 16:40 phf: apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
1858971;1538853921;asciilifeform;diana_coman: as i understand q was 'how to give n00b his 1st vtron'
1858972;1538854036;diana_coman;well, if it's "give" then it will have to be signed tar as far as I can tell, I still don't see why one would basically import gnu patch just in order to "give n00b" anything; the options are always either "take what exists i.e. on trust " (in which case archive) or "go and make your own" in which case what's the problem
1858973;1538854099;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i suspect idea was 'make him manually gpg --verify ... and then press by hand-gnupatch a la pre-v trb, better than signed tar'. but i'ma let phf clarify.
1858974;1538854133;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/typhus-outbreak-in-los-angeles-california/ << Qntra - Typhus Outbreak In Los Angeles, California
1858975;1538854266;asciilifeform;diana_coman: both old and new-form vpatch can be pressed manually with gnupatch, sorta like old cars could be started with crank if you really had to
1858976;1538854357;asciilifeform;( and i suspect it'll be a while before e.g. cuntoo is distributed entirely without gnupatch )
1858977;1538854363;diana_coman;the part I don't get is: what does "pressed manually with gnupatch" earn you vs "manually verify sig on this archive here"? (I assume the archive won't be 100MB of shit, ofc)
1858978;1538854389;asciilifeform;diana_coman: not having to have a separate signed-tar distribution, really is all.
1858979;1538854453;asciilifeform;keeping 2 separate forms of a nominally-identical proggy in sync, is a pain
1858980;1538854571;diana_coman;my understanding was that the starter would be just that, fixed minimal thing to get started, I don't see the need to change it and/or keep in sync
1858981;1538854625;asciilifeform;if it really is a certainty that the format will never change again -- then yes
1858982;1538854652;asciilifeform;but even if not changes, but minor refinements, e.g. the graph plotter -- n00bs will end up with old vtron, and then gotta press a newer
1858983;1538854657;asciilifeform;which is potentially headache
1858984;1538854699;asciilifeform;imho ideal case is when cuntoo is mature and errybody's expected to be on it, then the q resolves itself.
1858985;1538854708;asciilifeform;( i.e. working vtron already present )
1858986;1538854809;diana_coman;in that case the "starter" is using cuntoo, sure
1858987;1538854820;asciilifeform;aha
1858988;1538854919;asciilifeform;way i picture it, is on cuntoo, equipped with wot keys, all you'd have to do is e.g. 'vmerge phf-v', 'vselect phf-v' and you get his latest.
1858989;1538854982;asciilifeform;( i do not know if trinque is going with the old gentoo-flavoured terminology, but expect that process will be roughly similar )
1858990;1538855085;trinque;yeah, not being cute and renaming anything
1858991;1538855093;trinque;the thing's far too wrapped in on itself yet
1858992;1538855117;asciilifeform;trinque: was contemplating vtronic mechanism here, rather than 'cute' rename of the old emerge
1858993;1538855154;trinque;I do not intend to boil the ocean by replacing portage
1858994;1538855160;trinque;some other hero, can
1858995;1538855196;trinque;what I'm doing is replacing the "rsync ebuilds from server" mechanism
1858996;1538855198;asciilifeform;it was my understanding that it is eventually to happen. but i do recall that trinque's current item dun have it yet.
1858997;1538855203;asciilifeform;aha
1858998;1538855230;trinque;yep, I'm just making sure nobody expects more than "caught linux in working state at point in time" just yet
1858999;1538855236;asciilifeform;right
1859000;1538855254;asciilifeform;1st thing is to freeze the old tars, then slowly can vtronicize.
1859001;1538855321;trinque;mhm, perhaps source gets slurped directly into ebuild dirs as time goes on. open question yet how that step proceeds.
1859002;1538855616;trinque;also questionable whether there's such thing as a republican portage, or whether it all ought to be trashed for something gprbuild-based and with far less optionality.
1859003;1538855630;asciilifeform;trinque: trashed, i'd hope, eventually
1859004;1538855636;trinque;same here.
1859005;1538855647;trinque;just a bridge off the infected island
1859006;1538855658;asciilifeform;trinque: i also have visions of integration with gossipd, where the thing, given a wot key, will know how to ask owner for $source item. but this is yet a bridge too far.
1859007;1538855760;asciilifeform;trinque: gprbuild is replacement for gnumake/autoconf liquishit, not so much for portagetron per se.
1859008;1538855794;asciilifeform;( i have said before, would like to see the autoconf atrocity properly disappear into an unmarked grave )
1859009;1538855838;trinque;bsd ports tree uses exactly make for this
1859010;1538855852;asciilifeform;even from existing gnu liquishit, it is fairly easy, turns out, to remove ( e.g. as i did with the mpi that diana_coman made into the 1st half of eucrypt )
1859011;1538855868;asciilifeform;trinque: right
1859012;1538855874;asciilifeform;( gentoo's did not )
1859013;1538855899;asciilifeform;imho gprbuild oughta stay separate item from vtron tho
1859014;1538855928;asciilifeform;( i can't picture an integrated hybrid being less gnarly ; could be wrong about this tho )
1859015;1538855932;trinque;sure, vtron presses the ports tree, gprbuild builds
1859016;1538855937;asciilifeform;aha
1859017;1538856148;asciilifeform;( my primary objection to a hypothetical hybrid, is that i often do work on boxes with no nic, and imho builder must not rely on connectivity )
1859018;1538856183;trinque;no need to chimerize where necessity doesn't force
1859019;1538856202;asciilifeform;aha. and it should be possible to operate a cuntoo box with sporadic, or no, net pipe.
1859020;1538856294;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=44 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/04/2018
1859021;1538856346;asciilifeform;'Discussion regarding article about apple and amazon denied that Chinese spies implemented backdoor chips into hardware' << uhm, 'казнить нельзя помиловать'
1859022;1538856392;asciilifeform;( for non-ru folx -- traditional grammar school example of why gotta have correct punctuation, 'execute cannot spare' , toggleable opposite meanings with comma . anybody know of an engl-compatible version ? )
1859023;1538857829;asciilifeform;meanwhile, asciilifeform's pet volunteered a similar/popular engl example, 'the hookers hitler and stalin walked into the room'
1859024;1538857978;trinque;ah I was over here trying to figure out what webcomic that was, maybe oatmeal
1859025;1538861213;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859021 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8_U68YXuqc&t=15m38s
1859026;1538861213;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 20:05 asciilifeform: 'Discussion regarding article about apple and amazon denied that Chinese spies implemented backdoor chips into hardware' << uhm, 'казнить нельзя помиловать'
1859027;1538865328;asciilifeform;phf: yes!!
1859028;1538865339;asciilifeform;^ mega-classic
1859029;1538867643;mircea_popescu; neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion << no FUCKING way.
1859030;1538867654;mircea_popescu;the whole fucking point of the entire new v was to be able to represent deletion of files.
1859031;1538867660;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: binaries
1859032;1538867682;asciilifeform;neither gnudiff nor the new one, knows how to eat'em
1859033;1538867784;asciilifeform;recall the 'fg schematics' pain thread.
1859034;1538867798;mircea_popescu;we discussed this extensively, before phf even started. new vtools is perfectly capable of describing the deletion/movement/etc of ~any files~.
1859035;1538867841;asciilifeform;hm did it throw out the 'deletions must be reversible' thing ? now i gotta try it..
1859036;1538867856;asciilifeform;( ~insertion~ of binaries still not representable afaik, in any known difftron )
1859037;1538867882;mircea_popescu;i really don't like this constant process you got in your head going sed -e 's/i don't know/doesn't exist/' everything-i-never-read.txt
1859038;1538867898;asciilifeform;i did say 'afaik' neh
1859039;1538867903;mircea_popescu;helps ~nothing.
1859040;1538868052;*;asciilifeform goes to experiment
1859041;1538868259;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sadly enuff, i was right in re the current phf-vdiff . observe : a) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ZYgF/?raw=true << example of deleting a text file. in fact uses same deletion representation as ordinary gnudiff, where entire payload is quoted.  b) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vl2Ca/?raw=true << attempt to represent deletion of 1MB from FG. result : same as in oldschool gnudiff.
1859042;1538868285;asciilifeform;and i do recall that mircea_popescu specced this feature. but seems like it aint there yet.
1859043;1538868299;mircea_popescu;wtf.
1859044;1538868305;asciilifeform;try it yourself.
1859045;1538868339;asciilifeform;i am testing the version given in http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ .
1859046;1538868753;phf;asciilifeform is right, i dropped the ball on it. i prototyped it right after we had a conversation, and then i had the four months of fiat work, and i forgot that it was on my plate.
1859047;1538868775;asciilifeform;phf: didja ever discover an algo for doing this without breaking with classical diff format ?
1859048;1538868781;asciilifeform;or is this a perpetuum mobile
1859049;1538868817;mircea_popescu;tsk.
1859050;1538868839;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform we had solution to that, whole discussion with fully specified filenames, on it goes.
1859051;1538868857;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: rright but afaik it does break format.
1859052;1538868872;mircea_popescu;i don't give a shit. let all format breakingds HAPPEN AT ONCE
1859053;1538868873;asciilifeform;( recall, i did not have objection to breaking it thusly, imho oughta be able to represent bins )
1859054;1538868876;mircea_popescu;phf what the fuck are you doing to me!
1859055;1538868876;asciilifeform;aha !
1859056;1538868945;asciilifeform;this is why i was not hurrying to regrind, thought (turns out correctly) that the new vdiff ain't 100% yet
1859057;1538868962;mircea_popescu;oh this is why!
1859058;1538868964;mircea_popescu;motherfucker...
1859059;1538868968;asciilifeform;1 of the 2 whys
1859060;1538868992;asciilifeform;then diana_coman & mircea_popescu say 'wtf your waiting for' so thought 'so it's done...'
1859061;1538869097;asciilifeform;diana_coman evidently did not test this ( not really criticism of diana_coman , iirc we did decide that republican proggies ought not to include raw binariolade )
1859062;1538869102;phf;format breaks only in a sense that gnu patch won't press it. current vpatches that don't delete/rename (since the feature is not there) will never the less work with any future changes to vtools
1859063;1538869123;asciilifeform;phf: if binariola handler is added carefully, then yes, should not break existing patches
1859064;1538869131;asciilifeform;( i suggested several ways of doing this )
1859065;1538869136;mircea_popescu;phf i am very not happy with the situation.
1859066;1538869160;phf;mircea_popescu: i understand, it's the height of idiocy on my part
1859067;1538869217;asciilifeform;phf: do ya think you can post the binaries-eating version soon-ish ? i'd like to regrind FG, for example.
1859068;1538869519;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do you have bins in eulora tree ?
1859069;1538869547;asciilifeform;( graphics ? )
1859070;1538869554;asciilifeform;how is it that i'm the first to notice this hole.
1859071;1538869652;phf;asciilifeform: because binary we've been going back and forth on over many conversations over the past year. e.g. mp-wp was rewritten to not use binaries because around the time the resolution was to not pack binaries into vpatches and instead move in the direction of human readable formats
1859072;1538869710;asciilifeform;phf: rright but i distinctly recall that it was settled in favour of 'gotta have bin diffing'
1859073;1538869787;asciilifeform;phf: if you already have the coad for this, let's have it; otherwise i have a cl needleman-wunsch routine that i will adaize.
1859074;1538869838;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-september-2018-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), September 2018 Statement
1859075;1538869908;phf;asciilifeform: i don't have binary diffing even in prototype form, if you could adaize your needleman-wunsch i could add it to vtools, the way i did with diana_coman's keccak
1859076;1538869927;phf;my first priority is to revive delete/rename though since i have algo and code for it
1859077;1538869936;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do we want bin ~creations~ or only deletions ?
1859078;1538869955;asciilifeform;if only the former, then what phf said
1859079;1538869962;asciilifeform;err, latter
1859080;1538869977;asciilifeform;( if only deletions, than the file renameage thing will suffice )
1859081;1538870073;asciilifeform;also while mircea_popescu is awake : if you have the dest # for the 1-800 thing, plox to gpggram, i'ma bake it ( theoretically oughta be live in day or 2 from revv-up )
1859082;1538870144;phf;there are three distinct options: deletions and renames (which is handled by mp algo), creations (that can be handled by e.g. <size><content in hex>) and diffing (which is top complexity, needing e.g. needleman-wunsch)
1859083;1538870255;asciilifeform;phf: creations & diffs do not presently have a standard format; if mircea_popescu says that we need it, will have to make one.
1859084;1538870267;asciilifeform;( creations & diffs for bins, specifically )
1859085;1538870285;phf;asciilifeform: right
1859086;1538870337;phf;i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
1859087;1538870379;asciilifeform;ty phf
1859088;1538870495;asciilifeform;phf: recall, this is why asciilifeform earlier wanted a non-linecentric diff representation. then would not need special cases for clean ascii & bins.
1859089;1538870519;asciilifeform;but nobody liked this, seems like errybody is addicted to lines.
1859090;1538870550;phf;asciilifeform: i think the divergent points were a lot more elaborate than this particular reduction
1859091;1538870585;asciilifeform;possibly, i'ma have to rewalk the pertinent l0gz when i get a chance
1859092;1538870662;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform bins in mp-wp tree, hanbot expertly ascii-ized.
1859093;1538870677;asciilifeform;ah so no raw bins presently
1859094;1538870685;asciilifeform;not in eulora either ? also asciilzied ?
1859095;1538870711;mircea_popescu;you mean the client ? no-one's even bothered to genesis thart yet ; being replaced i expect.
1859096;1538870721;asciilifeform;ah
1859097;1538870758;mircea_popescu;there was NO discussion of "bion diffing". nor will there be. there was specified support ~for deletion of files~, which is WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
1859098;1538870770;mircea_popescu;stop fucking squigee-ing around for maximum damage. what you're damaging is your own fucking house.
1859099;1538870815;asciilifeform;if start of thread is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858965 , then mircea_popescu is correct, deletions suffice
1859100;1538870815;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 17:12 asciilifeform: tangentially on-thread, it still bothers asciilifeform that he was unable to represent the diff b/w mircea_popescu's bitcoin-0.5.3.tar.gz and the genesis as a vpatch ( neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion of binariolade... )
1859101;1538870847;asciilifeform;phf then you dun need bin diff/create.
1859102;1538870853;mircea_popescu;right. phf was supposed to have ~support for deletion/movement/fullspecified filename~ baked in.
1859103;1538870884;mircea_popescu;i can't currently conceive how the fuck he even MADE a vtools without it, because it was a root node and nothing works without it anyway (eg, i expect all the hashes he calculates are wrong)
1859104;1538870898;mircea_popescu;but i am not currently in a position to take a day off and review poorly executed jobs in detail.
1859105;1538870916;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'm mapping out the size of the hole, rather than dancing on mircea_popescu's toes for phun; have patience, if i've found this earlier, yer toes would not hurt nao.
1859106;1538870951;mircea_popescu;phf when you calculate the file hash, do you take ~the full name~ plus "the content or just "the content" ?
1859107;1538871011;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if he's stuck to the old gnudiff format, which per my test appears to be the case, names aint hashed at all ( they're covered by the gpg sig of given patch, but that's it )
1859108;1538871028;mircea_popescu;which is the fucking reason we even rewrote it.
1859109;1538871041;asciilifeform;i actually posted an experimental vtron that hashed the names
1859110;1538871075;asciilifeform;( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-March/000293.html ; http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html demo )
1859111;1538871107;asciilifeform;but afaik this did not make it to the spec table
1859112;1538871120;phf;mircea_popescu: the later, but i don't think that was the last iteration of your algorithm
1859113;1538871146;phf;i'm trying to find the relevant thread right now
1859114;1538871176;mircea_popescu;well now i'm reading through all dis, what can do. phf's four months at work resulted in same many months of rot, now we don't recall the spec, log is long, life is short, so on an' so forth.
1859115;1538871196;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: didja ever post a eulora-style full spec for the thing btw ?
1859116;1538871205;asciilifeform;or only exists in log
1859117;1538871212;mircea_popescu;only in log.
1859118;1538871237;asciilifeform;this is dangerous, really oughta have spec, it's what sets us apart from teh apes
1859119;1538871240;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-02#1792096 eg.
1859120;1538871240;a111;Logged on 2018-04-02 23:57 mircea_popescu: at which juncture i suppose it'd pay to check, huh. hey phf, my memory of logs discussion includes this item whereby the above problem was fully resolved by declaring the path as inseparable part of the filename. you on the same page ?
1859121;1538871273;mircea_popescu;apparently didn't so much pay to check.
1859122;1538871387;phf;and later i say we're on the same page, and i have no idea why and how
1859123;1538871423;mircea_popescu;and ~i~ should have written a blog article about it ? wtf would i put in it ?
1859124;1538871528;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-03#1792105 << closest i found to spec for mircea_popescu's algo .
1859125;1538871528;a111;Logged on 2018-04-03 00:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the logged discussion on the topic was, "if hashes match but paths do not, the file was moved ; if hashes match and paths match, the file is untouched ; if hashes do not match but paths match the file was modified ; if hashes do not match and paths do not match the file was created/deleted"
1859126;1538871558;mircea_popescu;this is correct ; my above "hash the filename" was incorrect, or rather, inexact.
1859127;1538871561;asciilifeform;it's entirely workable .
1859128;1538871586;asciilifeform;( in thread, mircea_popescu detailed how to make it go )
1859129;1538871593;mircea_popescu;right.
1859130;1538871613;asciilifeform;phf: i think errything you need, is in there.
1859131;1538871663;phf;yes, i remember the algo, and algo requires that the hash is just of content. i thought i was entirely insane, because immediately after "hash the name + content" i say "we're on the same page"
1859132;1538871695;mircea_popescu;phf "inseparable part of filename" != "hashed".
1859133;1538871712;mircea_popescu;as i say, my latter statement of the notion was misleading & vague.
1859134;1538871743;mircea_popescu;kinda what the problem is with these "brought back from the swamps of memory" items, the result takes some washing.
1859135;1538871744;phf;mircea_popescu: the next line after the one you quoted is "all files are identified by hashesof their name and content"
1859136;1538871776;mircea_popescu;i am aware.
1859137;1538871808;asciilifeform;it is my understanding tho that it is impossible to apply the algo in the thread if one were to make file name part of file's hash.
1859138;1538871816;asciilifeform;( could no longer identify moved files automatically )
1859139;1538871819;mircea_popescu;right.
1859140;1538871917;asciilifeform;file names are covered by the gpg seal of given patch, tho, so it isn't as if people can get away with blindly renaming items in a patch. so if taking all of mircea_popescu's algo but the hashed-names part, you have a usable algo.
1859141;1538871966;asciilifeform;and it dun even break the ancient format.
1859142;1538872018;phf;asciilifeform: right, all the contemplated extensions were supposed to be backwards compatible. the ancient format allows for a lot of necessary leeway
1859143;1538872028;mircea_popescu;i recall the succesion of steps of 1. being very happy with solution that was all smiles and no bruises ; 2. being satisfied that the people involved understood 1 ; 3. unloaded it from head. now in the nightmare consequent of "4. wait, what was it ?"
1859144;1538872164;mircea_popescu;anyway, leaving aside the past half hour of chaos : how can it be simultaneously true that a) delivered item matches 3rd of april algo and b) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859041 ?!
1859145;1538872164;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 23:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly enuff, i was right in re the current phf-vdiff . observe : a) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ZYgF/?raw=true << example of deleting a text file. in fact uses same deletion representation as ordinary gnudiff, where entire payload is quoted.  b) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vl2Ca/?raw=true << attempt to represent deletion of 1MB from FG. result : same as in oldschool gnudiff.
1859146;1538872649;phf;mircea_popescu: delivered item does not match 3rd of april algo. the algo was invented after delivered item was fully implemented with the idea that the algorithm can be added to the item transparently. but it was also around the time that i could no longer work on the item, so it remained unchanged since then
1859147;1538872688;*;asciilifeform bbl,food
1859148;1538873600;mircea_popescu;well, we'll hafta do something here ;/
1859149;1538873702;phf;mircea_popescu: well, short of cutting my head off, or handing it over, i can add the missing bits
1859150;1538873709;mircea_popescu;please.
1859151;1538873775;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859086
1859152;1538873775;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 23:58 phf: i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
1859153;1538874362;BingoBoingo;As I await the board to approve the Pizarro report I bring a nugget from the research mines: "Just try to have a good time and work hard to find a better job. Budtending is nowhere land."
1859154;1538874435;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858998 << as far as anyone knows, it's still ~experimental~ item anyway. not that it'd be nice for it to work, but really, expecting ? i ain't expecting it to. it's a wonder things like eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858794 worked, but i frankly was not expecting anything as lofty as "piece of hardware can be made to work"
1859155;1538874435;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 19:47 trinque: yep, I'm just making sure nobody expects more than "caught linux in working state at point in time" just yet
1859156;1538874435;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 14:27 mircea_popescu: brought about by y.t. fixing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854603 through generous application of sewed out linux-wireless-compat-blabla. turns out the aeteron pci board included (mysteriously dubbed "revision 0032") works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only.
1859157;1538874454;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo wut is budtending ? serving budweiser ?
1859158;1538874499;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: It's what the kids who weren't good enough to hussle on the corner call themselves when they work slinging redditized Monsanto behind a counter
1859159;1538874523;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859002 << i can't say as i understand wtf portage even is ; and i nurse some doubts as to whether anyone (yes, yes, i know you know what you'd want it to be. however...)
1859160;1538874523;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 19:53 trinque: also questionable whether there's such thing as a republican portage, or whether it all ought to be trashed for something gprbuild-based and with far less optionality.
1859161;1538874537;mircea_popescu;oh, like barristas for pot ?
1859162;1538874543;BingoBoingo;Yeah
1859163;1538874548;BingoBoingo;Pretense and all
1859164;1538874767;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859019 << certainly.
1859165;1538874767;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 20:03 asciilifeform: aha. and it should be possible to operate a cuntoo box with sporadic, or no, net pipe.
1859166;1538874791;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859022 << "woman without her man is nothing"
1859167;1538874791;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 20:06 asciilifeform: ( for non-ru folx -- traditional grammar school example of why gotta have correct punctuation, 'execute cannot spare' , toggleable opposite meanings with comma . anybody know of an engl-compatible version ? )
1859168;1538876330;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859081 +506 7250 3898 (that + is 011 from us/cadana afaik).
1859169;1538876330;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 23:54 asciilifeform: also while mircea_popescu is awake : if you have the dest # for the 1-800 thing, plox to gpggram, i'ma bake it ( theoretically oughta be live in day or 2 from revv-up )
1859170;1538876366;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859082 << are you saying creations are not handled by linked algo ?
1859171;1538876366;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 23:55 phf: there are three distinct options: deletions and renames (which is handled by mp algo), creations (that can be handled by e.g. <size><content in hex>) and diffing (which is top complexity, needing e.g. needleman-wunsch)
1859172;1538876493;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859095 << (important furtherance here : protocol as is being baked kinda removes all binary-ism from client tree, data to be received and cached as data rather than mangled into source tree as a sort of "divine cache" as currently practiced by ~all morons involved in gaming)
1859173;1538876493;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 00:05 mircea_popescu: you mean the client ? no-one's even bothered to genesis thart yet ; being replaced i expect.
1859174;1538878008;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859170 << that part of the discussion was about binary (the algo doesn't discriminate text or binary, but there's no support for binary creation in format), it was a panicked detour, that has been since resolved with "there's no binary in vpatch"
1859175;1538878008;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 01:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859082 << are you saying creations are not handled by linked algo ?
1859176;1538878917;mircea_popescu;cool.
1859177;1538880267;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859159 << portage was the closest thing there was to 'where asciilifeform cribbed concept for v' -- except that it never worked well at all
1859178;1538880267;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 01:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859002 << i can't say as i understand wtf portage even is ; and i nurse some doubts as to whether anyone (yes, yes, i know you know what you'd want it to be. however...)
1859179;1538880328;asciilifeform;( aside from rampant brokenness, in the years since gentoo author took 30 silvers from microshit and fucked it all ) would routinely get into circular wedges and fail in other 'interesting' ways
1859180;1538880353;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859166 << how do i turn this into 2 possible sentences ? i only see 1...
1859181;1538880353;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 01:13 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859022 << "woman without her man is nothing"
1859182;1538880473;mircea_popescu;"woman, without her man, is nothing" "woman. without her, man is nothing"
1859183;1538880483;asciilifeform;aaa ~two~ punctuators aite
1859184;1538880491;mircea_popescu;only one changes.
1859185;1538880534;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: how much traffic do you expect on the 800..? there's variant 14.49/0.07min and 17.99/0.066min where latter includes 223/mo
1859186;1538880557;mircea_popescu;not like my hand calc even can tell the diff of dust between 15 and 18 dubaloos.
1859187;1538880573;mircea_popescu;get the latter, why not. feel free to test it once on, also, give the girl a start.
1859188;1538880578;asciilifeform;aite i'ma get the slightly cheaper-per one, we can switch laters
1859189;1538880620;mircea_popescu;i dunno why we'd ever switch it lol. worst comes to worst, we use it like those old kgb stations, "voice of woman reading number sets"
1859190;1538880711;asciilifeform;lolyes
1859191;1538880738;asciilifeform;ok ordered
1859192;1538880745;asciilifeform;somebody's gonna call the # apparently
1859193;1538880759;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wake up the chix...
1859194;1538880774;mircea_popescu;she needs to say something or anything specific ?
1859195;1538880782;asciilifeform;unknown
1859196;1538880788;asciilifeform;'Step 1 - An account manager will call you to confirm and activate your service'
1859197;1538880793;mircea_popescu;aok.
1859198;1538880813;asciilifeform;cheap enuff experiment.
1859199;1538880827;asciilifeform;if it eats my 'can of soda' coin, i'ma try another
1859200;1538881261;asciilifeform;hrm, acct worx, no #s showing yet
1859201;1538881269;asciilifeform;prolly pending confirm on bananistan end
1859202;1538881293;mircea_popescu;this is a coffeestan!
1859203;1538881448;mircea_popescu;this is a coffee, stan!
1859204;1538881505;asciilifeform;lol
1859205;1538881682;asciilifeform;'One of our representatives will review your order and enable your account shortly'
1859206;1538882412;mircea_popescu;https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Reynolds's_Political_Map_of_the_United_States_1856.jpg << pretty great actuarial item on the bottom of this. who knew ohio was 2nd largest state, ~6 californias ? who knew florida was smaller than rhode island ?
1859207;1538882626;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858859 << speaking of which, edythe baker!!
1859208;1538882626;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 15:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, it was actually ~roll piano~ that nuked 'entertain self' music, rather than the scratchy phonograph of the time
1859209;1538883331;mircea_popescu;nicoleci your phone became the end point for the bitcoin foundation's 800 number. if anyone calls do teh professional, and report here any issues or q's.
1859210;1538883360;mircea_popescu;mod6 asciilifeform do you want her to prepare a script or anything ? fixed greeting ?
1859211;1538883362;asciilifeform;latest update -- they ate asciilifeform's 17bux, but did not disgorge a form for choosing the # yet
1859212;1538883391;asciilifeform;i suspect it's at least partially meat-powered shop : 'Please be advised that a sales (Account manager) will reach out to you at their earliest convenience .'
1859213;1538883403;nicoleci;mircea_popescu, yes, Master
1859214;1538883404;mircea_popescu;not like there's some rush.
1859215;1538883418;asciilifeform;tru
1859216;1538884911;hanbot;!Qauction 76M 72 500usd via WU
1859217;1538884912;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 367 STARTED by hanbot: 500usd via WU Opening: 76M coppers Ending: 2018-10-10 04:01:52 UTC (72 hours)
1859218;1538926770;BingoBoingo;And fat forehead party has come up with their response to #vivirsinmiedo... it is #UruguaySinViolenciaEnGenero
1859219;1538926773;BingoBoingo;Very catchy
1859220;1538933323;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/how-anthony-kiedis-killed-louise-ciccone/ << Trilema - How Anthony Kiedis killed Louise Ciccone
1859221;1538933329;mod6;mircea_popescu: That seems at least like a decent place to start; some sort of greeting and gathering of contact information.
1859222;1538933382;mod6;If the idea is for nicoleci to go further and answer questions from persons herself, yeah, we probably aught to have a list of pre-canned responses.
1859223;1538933983;*;mod6 bbiab
1859224;1538934861;mircea_popescu;will be happy to halp.
1859225;1538936153;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in lulz, "A Banksy was left in shreds before an shocked audience moments after it was auctioned off at Sotheby’s in London for a record $1.4 million. The British artist, whose identity is still unknown, timed his painting, Girl With Balloon, to self-destruct via a shredder hidden in the artwork’s frame."
1859226;1538937357;BingoBoingo;But what bigger Lulz is he distracting from? Trump got his judge, Bolnasaro is going to the beach tomorrow before beginning his run off campaign, and is Mosul still there or is it another six weeks?
1859227;1538938144;mod6;!!ledger
1859228;1538938149;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2fOKR/?raw=true
1859229;1538938459;mircea_popescu;six tweaks.
1859230;1538938538;BingoBoingo;sink twinks?
1859231;1538938748;mod6;mircea_popescu: Cool, thanks.  Was thinking that maybe nicoleci would start with a simple small set of pre-canned responses, and also collect contact information.  And during the call, any questions not covered by set of canned responses, can be written down and handed back to the forum or Co-chairs for answsering.
1859232;1538938761;mod6;Probably via email if that seems alright.
1859233;1538938789;mod6;In a timely fashion of course, figure what, 48 hours?  72?
1859234;1538938869;mod6;Also, unrelated to that... S.MG's UY3 invoice is still open (for september).  Just a heads up - obviously no big worry or anything.  Just saw that the S.MG statement is out there, didn't want ya to overlook that.
1859235;1538938953;mod6;BingoBoingo: Please to bid 76M for hanbot's auction -- between this one and trinque's, we're already half-way there to next month.  Not bad!
1859236;1538938969;mod6;I'll send you the coins here in just a bit.
1859237;1538939074;BingoBoingo;!Qbid 367 76M
1859238;1538939074;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 367: 500usd via WU Heard: 76mn from BingoBoingo Ending: 2018-10-10 04:01:52 UTC (56 hours 57 mins)
1859239;1538939094;mod6;Perfect, thank you.
1859240;1538939173;mod6;!Qcalc 500/6400
1859241;1538939174;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.078125
1859242;1538939267;mod6;!Qcalc 2000/6100
1859243;1538939268;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.327868852459
1859244;1538939272;mircea_popescu;mod6 a sorry, will get to it presently!
1859245;1538939281;mod6;no problem, Sir. :]
1859246;1538939310;diana_coman;is uy3 the test s.mg server?
1859247;1538939322;mod6;!Qcalc (0.078125 + 0.32786885)
1859248;1538939323;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.40599385
1859249;1538939328;mod6;diana_coman: Yeah.
1859250;1538939351;diana_coman;aha, ok
1859251;1538939358;mod6;mircea_popescu: To save you extra digging, it would have been an invoice from BingoBoingo.
1859252;1538939413;mod6;!!pay BingoBoingo 0.40599385
1859253;1538939417;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OlprV/?raw=true
1859254;1538939424;mircea_popescu;diana_coman we keeping that open still are we ?
1859255;1538939439;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, yes; atm it's anyway used for the udp
1859256;1538939531;diana_coman;and it's the one running the proto-cuntoo; I think it's needed at least until we can migrate to cuntoo+gnat
1859257;1538939646;mod6;!!v AB6CC90080B25F923650C9B30F6C717CF5ABA18538BA68029FAC3C5F86EC9949
1859258;1538939649;deedbot;mod6 paid BingoBoingo 0.40599385
1859259;1538939680;mod6;Alright BingoBoingo that's more than enough, but leaves you some wiggle room to make some counter-bids, should they be required.
1859260;1538939706;BingoBoingo;ty, will also keep my eyes open for other new auctions that pop up
1859261;1538939721;mod6;Any left over, can be simply retained by you, and accounted for next cycle, or you can send me back the remainder, if that's how you'd like to handle it.
1859262;1538939757;mircea_popescu;alright.
1859263;1538939759;mod6;Ok, if any others pop up, that I don't (for whatever reason) see, just holler.  Will get ya the coins.
1859264;1538939894;mircea_popescu;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 1
1859265;1538939898;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SwclS/?raw=true
1859266;1538940382;mod6;Thank you, mircea_popescu
1859267;1538940407;mircea_popescu;*thumbsup*
1859268;1538941513;mod6;mircea_popescu asciilifeform hanbot : Here's a stab at just the introduction part of the call-sheet: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IFdDG/?raw=true
1859269;1538941585;mod6;Beyond this, a list of answers to some obvious first questions can be added.  Other questions not covered can be written down and sent to us for answering, emailing resposnes.
1859270;1538942456;mircea_popescu;just in case anyone else's making audio cd's for the car, for i in *.mp3; do ffmpeg -i "$i" -f wav "${i%}.wav"; done
1859271;1538942470;mircea_popescu;piece of shit does not know what ffmpeg -i *.x *.y could POSSIBLY mean
1859272;1538942527;BingoBoingo;In other news from insanity land: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/robo-a-sus-companeros-pero-el-bcu-no-la-destituyo-porque-devolvio-el-dinero-2018105212741
1859273;1538942551;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo hey, restitution's a powerful tool.
1859274;1538942552;BingoBoingo;"Este artículo lo puede ver en este link: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/robo-a-sus-companeros-pero-el-bcu-no-la-destituyo-porque-devolvio-el-dinero-2018105212741 "
1859275;1538942594;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: resitution is powerful, but the mitigating factor was... kleptomania
1859276;1538942600;mircea_popescu;heh
1859277;1538942635;BingoBoingo;A clinical disposition to continue stealing
1859278;1538942716;BingoBoingo;I mean 25 to 35 percent unemployment and the Banco Central is stuck with a klepto because "public employee"
1859279;1538942818;mircea_popescu;in other news i fucking hate the manner in which windows tards create directories.
1859280;1538942835;mircea_popescu;60% spaces paranthesis quotes and other reserved signs by mass.
1859281;1538942853;mircea_popescu;these people never fucking used a computer, have none of the habits of computer use, no implicit semantics, nada.
1859282;1538942862;mircea_popescu;at least if they stuck to smileys and bs.
1859283;1538943043;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/the-lolz-inflation-continues-unabated/ << Trilema - The lolz inflation continues unabated.
1859284;1538943052;BingoBoingo;Kinda what the pnoje movement is coraling them into. Directory structure free containment
1859285;1538943365;BingoBoingo;Related: Can't make a fist? Want to punch Nazis? No Problem! http://archive.is/347IR
1859286;1538943396;*;mod6 bbl
1859287;1538944839;mircea_popescu;bwhaahahah
1859288;1538944856;mircea_popescu;dude not a single one of those schmucks looks like they could stand their ground.
1859289;1538944979;BingoBoingo;At this point whether someone looks like they can throw arespectable punch is a pretty good heruistic for sorting white trump voters from terminal pantsuits cucks
1859290;1538945002;mircea_popescu;i believe.
1859291;1538945046;mircea_popescu;the very feminine attitude, too, "here's my cunt, come find me". what the fuck ?! nobody's going anywhere looking for dorky boys.
1859292;1538945077;BingoBoingo;Well, Frank the ditch might accidentally into some
1859293;1538945117;mircea_popescu;and whenever that happens...
1859294;1538945628;BingoBoingo;In still other news, Conner McDayofFailure lost a match in a his rules fight league. His opponent went on to apparently jump the cage and beat McDayofFail's corner while the victor's corner hopped in the cage and beat up on McDayofFail some more
1859295;1538950228;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/facebook-today-nothing-but-cops-narcs-and-idiots/ << Qntra - Facebook Today Nothing But Cops, Narcs, and Idiots
1859296;1538955008;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859283 << ugh 'cannot unsee!111'
1859297;1538955008;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 20:10 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/the-lolz-inflation-continues-unabated/ << Trilema - The lolz inflation continues unabated.
1859298;1538955090;asciilifeform;meanwhile in trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_5_6_7_ProcessBlock.txt
1859299;1538955672;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859086 << picking up previous code, patcher already works (which is the easy part), but differ is not there yet. i should be able to get it working in the next week
1859300;1538955672;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 23:58 phf: i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
1859301;1538955683;phf;^ asciilifeform, mircea_popescu
1859302;1538955883;phf;differ is also c code, i wanted to figure out how to make the rename tracking algo pure ada, and then have it drive the differ, rather than writing more c code, but i'll see if i can manage it
1859303;1538955901;asciilifeform;phf: neato, lemme know if you need a hand
1859304;1538956023;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859231 << will need to be instructed re basic trb doctrine
1859305;1538956023;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 18:59 mod6: mircea_popescu: Cool, thanks.  Was thinking that maybe nicoleci would start with a simple small set of pre-canned responses, and also collect contact information.  And during the call, any questions not covered by set of canned responses, can be written down and handed back to the forum or Co-chairs for answsering.
1859306;1538956030;phf;ty
1859307;1538956073;phf;it was left behind on the x60, and picking up x60 again reminds me just how nice of machine it is
1859308;1538956080;asciilifeform;phf: it is, innit.
1859309;1538956084;asciilifeform;all but for the lcd
1859310;1538956097;asciilifeform;( i fucking hate the lcd on that thing )
1859311;1538956134;asciilifeform;and the battery ( i've bought 4 types of replacement, incl. supposedly 'original', none lasted > 6 mo. )
1859312;1538956154;asciilifeform;and none good for >3h when new
1859313;1538956190;phf;right, i basically treat the battery as a ups, i.e. hold it long enough for me to move it from place to place
1859314;1538956212;asciilifeform;i had to actually use it as a battery-powered box on pizarro voyage, and it sucked
1859315;1538956264;asciilifeform;( mass budget allowed for 2 batteries, and i ended up tossing one right there in BingoBoingostan )
1859316;1538956436;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I might have seen it at the feria recently on a table that also had a Macbook Air...
1859317;1538956516;phf;i've traveled with it before, but yeah, i'd turn it off, plug it in somewhere, turn it on. c101pa on the other hand has an insane battery life: i've been running it in pure console mode, and it will last a day or two
1859318;1538956523;asciilifeform;phf: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/x60_piz_roof.jpg << subj. no mains socket on that roof.
1859319;1538956537;asciilifeform;phf: c101pa would last ~week if power management thing worked...
1859320;1538956618;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'crapple air' suxx ballz, i wrote mine off long ago
1859321;1538956658;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: on top of crappleism -- actually ~slower~ than x60, and smaller battery, and shit kbd
1859322;1538956663;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Likely how it made it to the feria. Feria is powered by dumpster finds and sticky fingers
1859323;1538956667;asciilifeform;and for its cost you can buy 4 or 5 x60
1859324;1538956754;asciilifeform;phf: i drained the battery in ~2h on airplane (putting finishing touches on rk gentoo), then again in the rack (1st usa->orc mains plug brick fell apart) then again on roof...
1859325;1538956755;phf;what's kind of silly and i think mp made that point a while ago, that none of the manufacturers of that vintage attempted to do a swapable battery. a dual battery slot, or a smaller internal battery that would keep the thing powered for ~60 seconds it takes to switch the battery
1859326;1538956777;asciilifeform;phf: thought about soldering a supercap in there
1859327;1538956780;asciilifeform;but not much room
1859328;1538956825;asciilifeform;phf: i have a massive lenovo tank lappy that takes 2 batts. but it was out of the question on acct of mass
1859329;1538956870;phf;gut the x60 chassis, put rk in there, though you're still stuck with the screen
1859330;1538956882;asciilifeform;( lenovo w540, if anybody cares )
1859331;1538956888;asciilifeform;phf: screen is the big sad
1859332;1538956941;asciilifeform;phf: at one time there were rumours of a ips panel that could be stuffed into x60 and had compatible connector/timings , but afaik it's just that, rumour, i was never able to get close to one
1859333;1538957010;phf;i'm weird in that respect, i don't mind seeing pixels, reminds me of better times as far as computing. i make it extra ugly too, e.g. i run windowmaker, aliased fonts, the works
1859334;1538957031;asciilifeform;mine's on ratpoison, and has iirc 9pix fixed width font.
1859335;1538957078;phf;i forgot do you wear glasses?
1859336;1538957083;asciilifeform;oh yes
1859337;1538957116;asciilifeform;and i suspect the x60 is at least partly answerable for their getting thicker
1859338;1538957152;phf;i have this terminal at 16px :>
1859339;1538957172;phf;i could read 9pix, but fuck that
1859340;1538957190;asciilifeform;if i cant fit 80col , machine aint usable, per my lights
1859341;1538957281;*;asciilifeform would happily pay a coin or 2 for a sane lappy -- <1kg, readable panel, day of battery . but it dun exist.
1859342;1538957356;asciilifeform;even if i finally crack the puzzler of c101pa boot and encuntooation -- thing's palpably small.
1859343;1538957374;asciilifeform;for gurl it'd be ok lappy. but not for folx with full size hands, i suspect
1859344;1538957401;asciilifeform;x60 was just about ideal, if on minimal size, for kbd size.
1859345;1538957472;phf;eink screen, 4:3 aspect ratio, old thinkpad keyboard, 1 week battery life :p
1859346;1538957518;*;BingoBoingo has been surviving on an X120e since before we started calling this thing TMSR
1859347;1538957519;phf;serial port, obviously ethernet, etc.
1859348;1538957554;asciilifeform;phf: incidentally i found that sharp inc makes b&w lcd's that run on 0power when holding picture, and beautiful 100% reflector-powered picture. but their biggest is iirc 4 in. and 336 × 536 .
1859349;1538957556;BingoBoingo;The hands adjust
1859350;1538957562;asciilifeform;LS032B7DD02 .
1859351;1538957574;asciilifeform;i ordered a sample recently , just for the hell of it.
1859352;1538957657;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i've got pretty big hands, had to learn '8 fingers' typing on ye olde toshiba libretto back when had it
1859353;1538957686;BingoBoingo;Aha, 8 fingers is part of the trick
1859354;1538957692;asciilifeform;it sucks.
1859355;1538957720;BingoBoingo;I dunno, I think my hands have the stockholm syndrome pretty good on this issue
1859356;1538957726;asciilifeform;i can easily see why mircea_popescu doesn't do lappies, and i wouldn't either if i didn't regularly get meself into adventures that require'em
1859357;1538957775;asciilifeform;esp. pizarro voyages, these will always call for lightest available lappy, erry gram costs.
1859358;1538957856;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1859359;1538958507;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859325 << uterly indefensible choice, "we make lappy with ONE battery". all lappies of all time should have had two. so what if smaller two ? hotswappable!
1859360;1538958507;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 23:59 phf: what's kind of silly and i think mp made that point a while ago, that none of the manufacturers of that vintage attempted to do a swapable battery. a dual battery slot, or a smaller internal battery that would keep the thing powered for ~60 seconds it takes to switch the battery
1859361;1538958518;mircea_popescu;but, by the time lappies started, thinking was long out of us process.
1859362;1538958578;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859338 << afaik, also made this point. why the fuck bother with anything under 16 bold, what, they've won me at poker ?
1859363;1538958578;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 00:05 phf: i have this terminal at 16px :>
1859364;1538958636;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859349 << not mine, wtf. let the kbds adjust.
1859365;1538958636;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 00:12 BingoBoingo: The hands adjust
1859366;1538958715;BingoBoingo;At this point, untraining the hands is likely to be a challenge
1859367;1538958837;BingoBoingo;In other local new, Make Brasil Great Again appears to have nearly outright won the presidency. Still waiting on official results, but instead of the 27-30% take he was supposedly polling now it is looking like a 45-50% take
1859368;1538958975;BingoBoingo;But naturally all of the pantsuit flavored publications are painting this as "Candidate Underwhelms By Failing To Avoid Runoff" instead of embarrassing overperformance versus their polls
1859369;1538961094;mircea_popescu;o noes, pantsuit wank off by 20% as per usual ?!
1859370;1538961137;BingoBoingo;Looks like it
1859371;1538969229;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/ffytche/ << Trilema - ffytche
1859372;1538969617;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859242 << this wasn't you calculating the btc value of my auction, was it?
1859373;1538969617;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 19:07 mod6: !Qcalc 2000/6100
1859374;1538969907;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858745 << figure's there, just pop a 0. on the front end.
1859375;1538969907;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 19:34 BingoBoingo: !QBid 366 310080001
1859376;1538969951;*;trinque just got in from a wedding in rural oklahoma, wasn't bad.
1859377;1538970003;trinque;oh also BingoBoingo, pls to shoot me WU deets again at your convenience.
1859378;1538970029;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859235 << glad to see working it's.. working!
1859379;1538970029;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 19:02 mod6: BingoBoingo: Please to bid 76M for hanbot's auction -- between this one and trinque's, we're already half-way there to next month.  Not bad!
1859380;1538975761;*;mircea_popescu is kinda curious to see mocky coming back for air!
1859381;1539004815;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859359 << 1950s volkswagen , with its 2 tanks, had the right idea
1859382;1539004815;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 00:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859325 << uterly indefensible choice, "we make lappy with ONE battery". all lappies of all time should have had two. so what if smaller two ? hotswappable!
1859383;1539004884;asciilifeform;and interestingly 'hole for 2nd battery' was not entirely unknown item, even in '90s ~crapple~, i have an example ( 'g3 pismo' ) box that took'em
1859384;1539004925;asciilifeform;but today it is only found in super-heaviweights ( e.g. lenovo 500 series ) afaik.
1859385;1539004968;asciilifeform;and yes i'd rather have 2 half-sized batts than 1 large, this is elementary, esp. given that the 'large' are made of N smalls
1859386;1539005068;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the pnoje people called me at ~800hrs to confirm the # ; but apparently there's meat magic involved and it aint live yet ( lessee tomorrow )
1859387;1539005095;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and apparently we get ~80orcbux of demo credit.
1859388;1539005190;asciilifeform;also , for anyone who hadn't rtfm'd , 'tollfree' pnojeism worx only in usa . errybody else gets to call direct to the actual pnoje.
1859389;1539005207;asciilifeform;( not peculiar to this vendor, apparently is the case for all of'em )
1859390;1539005885;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathen lulz, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-22#1852860 turns out to be https://archive.is/vs21A : brazilian shitware, mostly for 'd-link' konsoomer routers
1859391;1539005885;a111;Logged on 2018-09-22 21:17 asciilifeform: in unrelated lulz, 35.198.33.239 - - [22/Sep/2018:17:30:05 -0400] "GET /dnscfg.cgi?dnsPrimary=139.60.162.188&dnsSecondary=139.60.162.201&dnsDynamic=0&dnsRefresh=1 HTTP/1.1" 301 185 "-" "curl/7.52.1" "-"
1859392;1539005959;asciilifeform;( spoiler : they did not link to the l0gz... )
1859393;1539007808;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859362 << 16 (plain, no bolds) x 80 == 1280 min. horiz. pixels needed for this.
1859394;1539007808;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 00:29 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859338 << afaik, also made this point. why the fuck bother with anything under 16 bold, what, they've won me at poker ?
1859395;1539007817;asciilifeform;e.g. the x60, has 1024.
1859396;1539007879;asciilifeform;aaand that's if you can coax emacs into not wasting the 1st and last cols.
1859397;1539007956;asciilifeform;granted, 'modern' lappies, with the 16:9 monstrosity, typically do have 1280+ horiz pixels.
1859398;1539008091;*;asciilifeform bbl,teatime
1859399;1539013121;BingoBoingo;trinque: re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859377 >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zj2hP/?raw=true
1859400;1539013121;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 03:40 trinque: oh also BingoBoingo, pls to shoot me WU deets again at your convenience.
1859401;1539013326;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859385 << precisely!
1859402;1539013326;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 13:22 asciilifeform: and yes i'd rather have 2 half-sized batts than 1 large, this is elementary, esp. given that the 'large' are made of N smalls
1859403;1539013355;mircea_popescu;from the anthropology/hoc pov, this is possibly the best example to point to when defending "civilisation had ended prior to 1990" thesis.
1859404;1539013367;mircea_popescu;we routinely do this to eg latins. applies just as well eveywhere.
1859405;1539013695;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858956 << this view, sweet as all delusions ever are, nevertheless is not tenable. live code is live code, and that's the only categorical distinction. whether you'd like to eat the spitoon or not is a signal reality's not pulled out pins to capture.
1859406;1539013695;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 17:03 asciilifeform: this worx great for theorems, algos, but not so much for MB of coad soup
1859407;1539013704;BingoBoingo;trinque: Are you calling the auction early or something?
1859408;1539013845;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo he's with the boy scouts, wants to be prepared.
1859409;1539013870;trinque;nope, which is why I was curious where he got that number. guess if he wants to keep bidding to reach it, by all means!
1859410;1539013899;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Ah
1859411;1539013904;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859386 << how the fuck did they have ~your~ number.
1859412;1539013904;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 13:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the pnoje people called me at ~800hrs to confirm the # ; but apparently there's meat magic involved and it aint live yet ( lessee tomorrow )
1859413;1539014099;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cc billing #
1859414;1539014158;mircea_popescu;heh
1859415;1539014173;asciilifeform;i'd be quite surprised if called without having told'em where, lol
1859416;1539014277;mircea_popescu;pretty much all the empire shit works by this "only way to get an x is to link an x' to an y' to the x" device. by now it's actually usable as an empire-detecting heuristic.
1859417;1539014281;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859405 << was moar of a 'quantity has a quality all its own'(tm)(r)(stalin) item. nobody's ever loading 5MB of C into head.
1859418;1539014281;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 15:48 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858956 << this view, sweet as all delusions ever are, nevertheless is not tenable. live code is live code, and that's the only categorical distinction. whether you'd like to eat the spitoon or not is a signal reality's not pulled out pins to capture.
1859419;1539014322;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and the only way for that to not have to happen is for someone to chisel down the 5mb. because your hallucinated "option" as to whether you load or not load has 0 bearing -- the only question is whether the 5mb run or don't run.
1859420;1539014338;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: pretty ordinary. i hear the chinese took it further still, if you want to rent a car there, gotta give'em gsm sim #, to get the latter, passport... etc
1859421;1539014357;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not simply 'does it run' but all of the possible states.
1859422;1539014371;mircea_popescu;i mean, is it live somewhere or is it live nowhere.
1859423;1539014380;mircea_popescu;not "does it work" ; "is it executed"
1859424;1539014402;mircea_popescu;as long as it's executed, anywhere, ever at all -- you're fucking loading.
1859425;1539014405;asciilifeform;i suspect there's a subtle thread there that i'm not grasping
1859426;1539014450;mircea_popescu;let's restate :
1859427;1539014520;mircea_popescu;any quantity of code, no matter how large, no matter how gnarly, no matter how repugnant, and NO MATTER ANYTHING ELSE WHATSOEVER -- a) will be loaded in at least one human head, which will probably be yours, if it ever, at all, gets executed by a computer somewhere ; and b) will NOT be loaded in any heads, including yours, if AND ONLY IF it is NEVER, EVER, executed on any box anywhere.
1859428;1539014559;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: most of the extant liquishit was never loaded whole into any head. ( just as applicable to winblowz, openssl, crystalspace, etc. )
1859429;1539014567;asciilifeform;if not loaded ~whole~, then not loaded in head.
1859430;1539014569;mircea_popescu;that's the only distinction reality permits : between code that is run, and code that is not run. whether the task of stuffing it in head "is feasible" according to the head in question or any other heads is entirely irrelevant.
1859431;1539014598;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because idiots hallucinated the option of "not loading in head", the code in question now works as a sort of digital frontier : whoever loads more faster wins. hence "hackers".
1859432;1539014600;asciilifeform;if coad was never loaded whole into a working head, it is not properly speaking an artificial object in the sense of being designed, but moar of an excretion, i.e. pile of shit
1859433;1539014608;asciilifeform;correct
1859434;1539014611;mircea_popescu;this is irrelevant.
1859435;1539014631;mircea_popescu;there's no escape from the "any live code -- loaded in head" rule, and this is why you even get the "code -- small" tool.
1859436;1539014642;asciilifeform;i dun see how it is not only not irrelevant, but in fact the ~only~ thing that's relevant when encountering a pile of coad.
1859437;1539014661;asciilifeform;i.e. whether it can be approached as a crafted object, or whether it is pile o'shit
1859438;1539014670;mircea_popescu;because the "not loaded in head" thing is illusory. someone somewhere will.
1859439;1539014686;asciilifeform;if pile of shit -- then all that remains is to dig through it, if must, for the gold ring in it.
1859440;1539014695;asciilifeform;or measure it for typhus. etc
1859441;1539014698;mircea_popescu;this thing you call "digging through"... is in fact...
1859442;1539014745;asciilifeform;is to separate into parts that ~may~ be loadable , individually, in head.
1859443;1539014762;asciilifeform;for instance, i did not load bdb into head, and don't intend to try, i dun have the 20 yrs that it'd take.
1859444;1539014810;mircea_popescu;the difference between the bank clerk who "knows how to run excel" and alf, who can produce cp101a, is not, as you think, "has loaded in head ?". because bank girl has, after a fashion, to inept standards, somewhat loaded windows in head. that your loading is better than her loading is true, and that items move from worse to better in hands of republic and from better to worse in hands of empire is also true.
1859445;1539014825;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, there's no such thing as the option of whether to load or to not load. if it runs -- you're loading.
1859446;1539014865;mircea_popescu;you have currently [done a very poor job] of having loaded in head all binary turds used by all proprietary crap you use.
1859447;1539014883;mircea_popescu;and i have done a moderately shitty job of having loaded in head the entire linux backports project.
1859448;1539014901;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my profession the saeculum in fact reduces to 'cut'em up and try load into head, sawing through active resistance by orig author'. it is possible to attempt it. and there are other people whose profession is to lift heavy objects in the circus. but they will not be lifting garbage truck.
1859449;1539014914;mircea_popescu;better post http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858801 than pre, it is true, but still.
1859450;1539014914;a111;Logged on 2018-10-06 14:36 mircea_popescu: "but mp, you don't understand how the world works" "what is the meaning of '''new''' in the context of '''similar enough to old for this scheme to work''' "oh, it doesn't PROMISE to stay that way! this pile just works as long as it does!" "which isn't a promise ? and if it stops working, what, time for linux-backports-compat-compat, a set of scripts to update the set of scripts that updates...?" "YES!"
1859451;1539014950;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform whether you manage [to a standard of your satisfaction, or of my satisfaction, or however define] or don't manage has no bearing. it's still getting done.
1859452;1539014967;mircea_popescu;all code that ever runs anywhere is getting loaded in head. there's no way out of this.
1859453;1539014974;mircea_popescu;it's the cornerstone of the human condition.
1859454;1539014976;asciilifeform;either loaded or thrown
1859455;1539014983;mircea_popescu;thrown == not run.
1859456;1539014985;asciilifeform;i dun disagree that that there's the 2 options
1859457;1539015015;asciilifeform;aha not run, once finally cut off with welding torch from the items that are to be run
1859458;1539015018;asciilifeform;possible we dun disagree
1859459;1539015037;mircea_popescu;this is what breaks the imperial brain, too : we stick to our trees being continuous, like blockchain. to zek -- luxury, can not be afforded.
1859460;1539015069;asciilifeform;i suspect that we dun have a point of disagreement re subj; i got stuck on 'run'
1859461;1539015070;mircea_popescu;and so "stuffed windows userland item into head" === large pile of assumption, wsod, jumps over gaps like ballerina. but it's still loaded, if poorly, unreliably, etc. it's loaded.
1859462;1539015086;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeh, just taking opportunity to overexplicitly state for teh logs.
1859463;1539015093;asciilifeform;aite
1859464;1539015144;mircea_popescu;(i think trinque especially enjoys reading these)
1859465;1539015166;asciilifeform;let's also recall the fella who ate a boeing.
1859466;1539015233;mircea_popescu;anyway, the whole " Naturally, since these types of morality focus more on abstract concepts rather than the people themselves, expect some rather nasty extremism." http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/#selection-71.327-71.472 item has a lot of bearing here : the only way empire mind can make it to the end is through a LOT of jumping across gaps. thus they came up with this doctrine of love, "this makes
1859467;1539015233;mircea_popescu;no sense, but people themselves before abstract concepts!!" aka "if you really loved me you'd buy this house/ring/kid/whatever yo ucan't afford" etc.
1859468;1539015258;mircea_popescu;unremarkably enough, the pantsuit religion is then "the religion of love". cuz god "so loved his children", he gave them windows and asked them to use it.
1859469;1539015284;asciilifeform;the old christian claptrap , that birthed current pantsuit, at least made the creeds explicit
1859470;1539015290;mircea_popescu;(which is ~literally~ what fucking happened, "i was made by people too stupiud to make sense, BELIEVE in me" is the cry the guerre of the stupidgod.)
1859471;1539015322;asciilifeform;current lot of derps seems to make'em up as they go
1859472;1539015328;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform everything's explicit to the sufficiently trained eye. as they are unexplicit through confusion to moron today -- so they were 2k years ago. as directly visible to me then, so visible now.
1859473;1539015396;asciilifeform;possibly to sufficiently expert entomologist, the current idjicy is linearly mappable to the older one, even; i have nfi
1859474;1539015421;mircea_popescu;i can't detect ambitiously indolent stupidity has changed in any way since the days we fed them to the lions.
1859475;1539015510;mircea_popescu;notice ~why~ it is random derp uses [ie, acts as if has loaded in head] pile of gnarl like say excel, or "telegram" or "kubinetes" or w/e : FOR LOVE OF BROTHER. "we all do it". but it sucks ? "yes well."
1859476;1539015513;mircea_popescu;community prayer.
1859477;1539015576;mircea_popescu;what exactly is to be deemed the difference between bunch of retards gathering together to worship gappy nonsense in some cave and bunch of retards gethering together to pretend like they know wtf the computer is doing, in some concrete re-enactment of a cave ?
1859478;1539015646;mircea_popescu;because no, the "i know ~exactly~ what the computer is doing" declaration is not optional. exactly like socrates' observation, "the man claiming no political system has political system", exactly so, whatever the claim, to run code on machine equals the declaration of having fully read and thoroughly understood. there's no wiggle room.
1859479;1539015715;mircea_popescu;and the "i have nfi what excel is doing" observation does not reduce to "i have not fully read and thoroughly understood" ; but instead it reduces to "i have read and fully understood -- and i fill overquickly". ie, "i am dumb, easily satisfied and easily amused".
1859480;1539015755;mircea_popescu;which drives the fundamental difference between zek and republican : some people are satisfied before satisfaction is on the table ; some only after. that's all.
1859481;1539015790;diana_coman;!!v E1E5979C4064C1E73632B9D559C847A41914992CC4CC57DED30C0FE73DC3E1A8
1859482;1539015790;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of Mocky from 1 to 5 << Runs towards scary stuff rather than away from it. Met irl.
1859483;1539015810;mircea_popescu;that might be the record jump. where'd you two meet ?!
1859484;1539015815;mircea_popescu;o wow, in heathrow ?
1859485;1539015871;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, in London; though he did have a weird flight - went back to New York, repaired plane, went back
1859486;1539015908;mircea_popescu;what's teh dalih habeeb like ?
1859487;1539015933;mircea_popescu;s/dalih/djarib/ but anyway.
1859488;1539016003;mircea_popescu;diana_coman wait, HE repaired the plane ?!
1859489;1539016158;diana_coman;ahahah, no
1859490;1539016175;diana_coman;the great american airlines managed to repair the plane on their own - this time
1859491;1539016202;diana_coman;he's a very nice fellow!
1859492;1539016206;mircea_popescu;this sounds so fucking suspicious lmao. did they leave without all the mocky surveillance ? :D
1859493;1539016219;asciilifeform;lol since when does one repair plane ~after flight back across atlantic~
1859494;1539016228;asciilifeform;it dun make sense
1859495;1539016237;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i never heard of this lol. maybe they only got as close as halfway-1.
1859496;1539016262;asciilifeform;'uhm, turbine's loose, lemme go to the depot 11000km from here'
1859497;1539016271;mircea_popescu;good thing he placed a 30 hour gap there lmao. "what are you going to do in heathrow for that long !? " "fly back and forth repairing planes."
1859498;1539016277;mircea_popescu;"now pass me that grease bucket"
1859499;1539016326;diana_coman;back from wherever they got but surely not from london, lol! I understood it was the type of "took off, flew a bit, something wrong, going back because can't risk attempting to cross the atlantic"
1859500;1539016343;diana_coman;anyways, he'll surely be able to give details when he gets online
1859501;1539016347;mircea_popescu;"dear belovedly departed passengers, this is your captain speaking. we seem to have taken off without some parts that are kinda needed, so we'll be going back. hopefully."
1859502;1539016375;diana_coman;honestly, this is how it sounded! kind of reason why I asked him what airline was that because it's the first time I hear such a thing
1859503;1539016389;mircea_popescu;"actually, let me correct that : we're going back for sure. precisely how far back is still under trial."
1859504;1539016401;diana_coman;and in which direction, lol
1859505;1539016448;diana_coman;but yes, apparently 30 hours gap great thing
1859506;1539016459;mircea_popescu;only way to fly -- rarely.
1859507;1539016515;*;asciilifeform had that same 30 hrs gap -- in bucharest
1859508;1539016532;asciilifeform;all the speed of dirigible, with none of the comforts!11
1859509;1539016541;BingoBoingo;Nah, see this is the new artisanally diverse aviation. How dare you impose your engineering on these snowflake turbines!
1859510;1539016544;mircea_popescu;i used to connect through frankfurt with a 6ish hour gap for lunch and merriment, back in the days.
1859511;1539016625;diana_coman;on my way back to costa rica I had this connecting flight in Madrid, a few hours gap, had something to eat, no problem
1859512;1539016631;diana_coman;from costa rica, lol
1859513;1539016634;mircea_popescu;but 30 is a diff game altogether. sleepover sorta gap.
1859514;1539016691;diana_coman;yes, I would honestly simply stay a few days in that town then at least, but what can I say
1859515;1539016713;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/usg-and-victims-deny-allegations-of-chinese-ownership-of-their-implanted-servers/ << Qntra - USG And Victims Deny Allegations Of Chinese Ownership Of Their Implanted Servers
1859516;1539016715;mircea_popescu;well, i can say : the town is london, so i can understand why he'd rather sit in airport.
1859517;1539016724;diana_coman;neah, he wanted to visit the town
1859518;1539016724;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo aaaahahaha epic.
1859519;1539016751;mircea_popescu;make moar comission to study russian spying ynot.
1859520;1539016758;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty, fodder for Qntrapressing submitted by alf
1859521;1539016794;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-28#1845236 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-17#1842521 and etc also never happened.
1859522;1539016794;a111;Logged on 2018-08-28 17:22 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/usg-butthurt-china-wont-share-samples-of-h7n9-flu-virus/ << Qntra - USG Butthurt China Won't Share Samples Of H7N9 Flu Virus
1859523;1539016794;a111;Logged on 2018-08-17 16:55 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/08/arrogance-and-shit-comms-system-kill-us-spies-in-china/ << Qntra - Arrogance And Shit Comms System Kill US Spies In China
1859524;1539016813;*;asciilifeform suspects the story is a rich lulzmine with many gold veins yet to appear
1859525;1539016821;BingoBoingo;Well, Russia can't afford to buy USG.blue
1859526;1539016831;BingoBoingo;And China can
1859527;1539016852;mircea_popescu;coming after http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-21#1659977
1859528;1539016852;a111;Logged on 2017-05-21 13:28 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/05/rumour-us-cia-lost-most-china-humint-assets-during-hussein-bahamas-administration/ << Qntra - Rumour: US CIA Lost Most China Humint Assets During Hussein Bahamas Administration
1859529;1539016854;mircea_popescu;"mop-up".
1859530;1539016963;mircea_popescu;and, amusingly enough, they're ~still~ all into "multiculti" bs and still not "oh, here's the keys tmsr, lead us out of the shit".
1859531;1539017001;asciilifeform;they like the shit just fine. 'vivir en mierde'(tm)
1859532;1539017103;mircea_popescu;in the immortal words of mr oover, "i say they is not white man."
1859533;1539017619;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> all code that ever runs anywhere is getting loaded in head. there's no way out of this. << Relatedly in my times here I have met a number of "digital nomads" who use chromebooks as issued by Google and evangelize for them. Rather than "loaded chromeOS into head" they strike me as "leased head to google"
1859534;1539017648;mircea_popescu;precisely. "we're the sinowhores" 5th column.
1859535;1539017666;BingoBoingo;"Geographically independent" and Google tethered
1859536;1539017752;mircea_popescu;whole point of their exercise is "you can be a slave to stupid empire EVEN WITHOUT traditional trappings".
1859537;1539017770;mircea_popescu;a sort of "if you don't like lobotomy with knife -- can have lobotomy with anal dildo. same effect, diff flavour".
1859538;1539017784;mircea_popescu;what's usg if not this "singular effect, choose your paper wrapper"
1859539;1539017869;BingoBoingo;One of the fellows ranted and raved about Masonic conspiracies yet advanced the position "I don't see why anyone would be advantaged by not using GoogleSpyDevice as their 'conputer'"
1859540;1539017884;mircea_popescu;oh he doesn't see ?!
1859541;1539017967;BingoBoingo;I just suggested the next time he's smoking out in his hovel that he watch that Citizen4 Snowden documentary
1859542;1539018088;BingoBoingo;Can't fix stupid, but you can try to drop hints that might lead to stupid making itself suffer
1859543;1539018182;BingoBoingo;His proclaimed project was making a Indian penny labor powered bot for alt-fetlifes
1859544;1539018418;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: these loltrepreneurs, the folx milling about in 'co-op', fearing mumps, building alt-fetlifes -- what did they live on ?
1859545;1539018424;asciilifeform;couldn't help but wonder
1859546;1539018488;mircea_popescu;college debt.
1859547;1539018503;asciilifeform;they have these in BingoBoingstan?!
1859548;1539018510;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: This guy claimed to have an older business partner back in the states, moved on to Patagonia after a month and a half
1859549;1539018517;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: This one was gringo
1859550;1539018521;asciilifeform;aaa so extension cord back to usa, lolk
1859551;1539018529;BingoBoingo;Assumed agent or informant
1859552;1539018569;BingoBoingo;He also parroted idiot Uruguayo line about the insecurity
1859553;1539018586;BingoBoingo;And parroted trope about how boring Uruguay is
1859554;1539018614;asciilifeform;lulzy. BingoBoingostan struck me as place where you could , per the chinese proverb, 'send virgin with sack of gold coins from one end to other, and keep both virtue and coin'
1859555;1539018641;BingoBoingo;Depends on how tall the girl is
1859556;1539018671;BingoBoingo;Either way the virtue will be intact, but the shorter she is the greater the chance sack gets grabbed
1859557;1539018678;asciilifeform;lolhow's that ? does mircea_popescu throw ladder down from dirigible to the tall ones?
1859558;1539018681;asciilifeform;ah hm
1859559;1539018740;BingoBoingo;My hypothesis is that the short ones look less capable of pursuing their bag, among other disadvantages
1859560;1539018791;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform recall http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-03#1732326 ? here's what it buys them : mp can't now declare racial fatah upon the little yellow men. because why would i, so they're kindly keeping large numbers of white idiots around to reproduce. as per http://trilema.com/2015/the-genetics-of-intelligence/ this isn't even a bad move. so they bought the managing to go around with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859521
1859561;1539018791;a111;Logged on 2017-11-03 12:41 asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp the middle kingdom's 'feed the enemy until he dies of old age' philosophy, so cannot comment
1859562;1539018791;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 16:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-28#1845236 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-17#1842521 and etc also never happened.
1859563;1539018791;mircea_popescu;and YET not elicit immune response. this is a small thing to buy ?
1859564;1539018901;asciilifeform;i do recall a mircea_popescu thread where ' i dun care how they run the barn, i'ma drink the milk ' or how did it go.
1859565;1539019068;mircea_popescu;well ? the FACT of the matter is that reproduction is -ev. always was, too. so little yellow men wish to participate in the affairs of humanity by essentially taking on the role of the human female ? this is a crime now ? should be hated for attempt to participate as best can ?
1859566;1539019100;asciilifeform;it still aint 100% clear to me for what exactly china needs the white devil. recall when the brits had to hook'em on opium , to buy tea ? ( cn prior would take only gold/silver as payment , and brits were running low )
1859567;1539019111;mircea_popescu;let them credit the fed general acct with as cheap items as can be had in counterparty for it, so the fed extends "college debt" to the above morons, so they have kids and move europe outta the present lulz.
1859568;1539019151;mircea_popescu;yes, it's true, europe is in a rut, beyond ridiculous. this is what europe fucking does, and has been doing, it cycles. yes there's oodlebunches of useless old women about, but already the young cunts are very much oriented upwards.
1859569;1539019168;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform for actually doing things worth the mention. that's all.
1859570;1539019196;asciilifeform;i suspect they're quite disappointed with the investment then
1859571;1539019210;asciilifeform;'hey we bought the beethoven-maker and it dun make no moar beethovens'
1859572;1539019234;mircea_popescu;china -- had gunpowder. white devil -- fired it into forbidden palace. china -- had helicopter. white devil -- flew it. china -- had alchemy, on paper. etc.
1859573;1539019238;asciilifeform;( recall the ancient tale of the 'money printer machine' scam, where it was preloaded with coupla benjies )
1859574;1539019261;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they got time. so do i. it'll make more, eventually.
1859575;1539019311;mircea_popescu;as i say -- the young hussies already are looking for slavery and abjection, in contrast to their stupid mulas and stramulas. from rotherham to anytown, usa, the 15 yo is saying "please, beat, rape and light me on fire -- anything whatsoever but having to talk with my kinmorons."
1859576;1539019322;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wasn't even all 'paper' tho -- recall the enuch vizier d00d, picking up elephants, giraffes, from africa in 1500s on maersk-sized boat
1859577;1539019324;mircea_popescu;and that's pretty much how the upswing cycle begun every other time.
1859578;1539019375;asciilifeform;( and where next emperor tallied up the ev and ended up ordering ~all~ boats bigger than fisherman's tub, burned... )
1859579;1539019546;mircea_popescu;heh
1859580;1539023601;BingoBoingo;In other lolz: Diputado del FA advirtió que “nos conviene estar en buenas relaciones” con Bolsonaro
1859581;1539023619;BingoBoingo;Translation: The local commies know they can't stop MBGA
1859582;1539024608;diana_coman;in other possible interesting things: I got invited to give a talk to students at local uni (Reading, UK) on "bitcoin and blockchain"; personally I'm not all that keen on it but given the recent ideas regarding reach out and all that, I am at least considering this; any input on this is welcome
1859583;1539024677;diana_coman;ftr the above comes after I pretty much demolished (at a kids' party of all places) the "content" the poor new lecturer had inherited
1859584;1539024686;mircea_popescu;lol.
1859585;1539024715;mircea_popescu;so go, talk, why not. don't put up with any substantial shit, nor with more coincidental shit than you feel like. if they don't like it, they can shove it.
1859586;1539024733;mircea_popescu;have them hook up an irc session to a projector, we can chat during.
1859587;1539024749;asciilifeform;hey , at one time ( pre-tmsr... ) asciilifeform was invited to do talk at... microshit. still regrets not having prepared a trololol and going
1859588;1539024797;mircea_popescu;doesn't even have to be "trololol". things are what they are, the congregation of the weirdos are more than welcome to react however they can think of.
1859589;1539024843;*;asciilifeform envisions sumthing in the vein of hanbot's letter ( hey mod6 , did that ever get sent anywhere yet ? ) but obv the detail is up to diana_coman's skilled hand
1859590;1539024862;mircea_popescu;im sure she's qualified to lecture on her own.
1859591;1539024875;asciilifeform;iirc was even pro lecturer at one time
1859592;1539024882;diana_coman;from my pov the whole gain if I'm doing this is precisely in giving at least students the *chance* to hear something other than the regurgitated bullshit
1859593;1539024911;diana_coman;the inherited slides are the usual mixture of "blockchain new techhxxx" + "ethereum!!!"
1859594;1539024930;mircea_popescu;it's a mitzvah, as per ye olde http://trilema.com/2013/some-basic-discussion-of-charity/
1859595;1539024939;BingoBoingo;I see nothing but upsides from diana_coman doing the lecture
1859596;1539024943;mircea_popescu;if you got the time and feel like it, go, why not.
1859597;1539024945;asciilifeform;imho http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ is pretty good material for such a lecture
1859598;1539024968;BingoBoingo;Ditto the trilema material on Bitcoin regulation
1859599;1539024971;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform even something such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857395 great material
1859600;1539024971;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 18:20 nicoleci: 221
1859601;1539024974;diana_coman;it's more a matter of wtf to do to get through to them in the least seeing how they are so ...far away on all dimensions to any reality
1859602;1539024980;mircea_popescu;i guarantee you 9 in 10 MATH PROFESSORS can't explain rsa.
1859603;1539025002;mircea_popescu;diana_coman is that not a good example ? bitcoin can be mentally reconstructed from fundamentals of rsa and db permanence.
1859604;1539025018;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun think i've yet met one, but i have 0 doubt that they are already on the jerb somewhere in ameristan
1859605;1539025028;mircea_popescu;translate http://trilema.com/2011/ce-este-bitcoin/ why not.
1859606;1539025057;diana_coman;I see so many things to say, lol!
1859607;1539025060;asciilifeform;the chillunz may end up a bit confused when notice that there is no rsa in classical btc, but otherwise yes
1859608;1539025171;BingoBoingo;In other wild finds the local commies are making campaign materials to help Make Brasil Great Again: https://i.redd.it/q6olj8nxxyq11.jpg
1859609;1539025212;asciilifeform;'no te violo porque no lo mereces' << win
1859610;1539025237;mircea_popescu;lulzy item. "let's mix the scary things!!!"
1859611;1539025257;asciilifeform;i recall similar lolgem made for trump etc
1859612;1539025286;mircea_popescu;hey, latinos are exactly like the chinese, but with samba si trabajo no gene extra. otherwise -- of fucking course they'll be copying some white man.
1859613;1539025290;mircea_popescu;latrinos*
1859614;1539025299;asciilifeform;lol!!! win
1859615;1539025305;asciilifeform;latrinos. viva en mierde
1859616;1539025316;mircea_popescu;haymasfuturo.
1859617;1539025333;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform technically, "latrinos. quien viven en mierda." but anyway.
1859618;1539025413;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in trb observatory... nuffin on surface. but! loox like all of trb planet stuck on 544911 ( heathens : 544928 )
1859619;1539025423;asciilifeform;potential microforklet, possible lulz .
1859620;1539025495;asciilifeform;loox like it's been going for coupla hrs nao.
1859621;1539025501;mircea_popescu;hm
1859622;1539025574;asciilifeform;imho errybody gotta have at least 1 noad with a display, will see lulz like this , i suspect , regularly
1859623;1539025591;mircea_popescu;http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate?d=2018-8-31#416460 << mimi even longer ago ?!
1859624;1539025614;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc ben_vulpes is moving his node on horse-drawn cart to texas
1859625;1539025623;mircea_popescu;that's end of aug. but ok.
1859626;1539025661;asciilifeform;all of http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html seems to be on 544911 just nao .
1859627;1539026141;asciilifeform;iirc BingoBoingo , and possibly mircea_popescu , have unadvertised/'stealth' noades, see if they're also ditto.
1859628;1539026155;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: investigating
1859629;1539026172;asciilifeform;hour of 'earth stands still' is a regular thing , 2 -- i suspect is skulduggery
1859630;1539026270;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> potential microforklet, possible lulz . << lulz involving exploitation of powerrangers inflation bug would be great lecture fodder
1859631;1539026280;mircea_popescu;eh, plenty of 12+ hrs to date.
1859632;1539026316;BingoBoingo;Then again there have been other forklets to include in lectures of why "move fast and break things" doesn't work
1859633;1539026418;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: individual noad 12h yes , whole orchestra afaik -- not since 2016
1859634;1539026446;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other lulz re ben_vulpes : "nginx/1.10.3 (Ubuntu)".
1859635;1539026479;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform whole orchestra too ; i dunno what state of improved patching it finds itself, but if it thereby "increased reliability" in an uniform manner...
1859636;1539026500;mircea_popescu;ie, 90% of the bugsoup that produced delays before is removed, the remainder 10% will naturally stand out.
1859637;1539026564;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: something to this; 'aggression' removed most (not all) instances of trb 'sitting with mouth open'
1859638;1539026579;asciilifeform;so nao moar apparent when friction at the interface of trbdom an' heathendom
1859639;1539026589;mircea_popescu;right.
1859640;1539026598;mircea_popescu;1st line culprit anyway.
1859641;1539026719;asciilifeform;fwiw zoolag in particular hasn't even seen ~invalid~ blox for ~2h.
1859642;1539026799;mircea_popescu;diana_coman BingoBoingo has a point, including ample warnings of the dangers of hallucinated optionality, man-aloneism, following pr-rangerism, mit-ism, eterdation etc can't possibly hurt the young'uns.
1859643;1539026809;mircea_popescu;won't likely help them anymore than ye olde story of prikoke, but what can you do.
1859644;1539026922;diana_coman;aha, hence my "chance to hear" rather than anything else
1859645;1539026988;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1859646;1539027027;mircea_popescu;seriously tho, have them hook an irc client to a projector, that way it's "chance to hear" + "be remembered". already +ev.
1859647;1539027033;diana_coman;before talking of "blockchain technologies" I'd much rather talk of the whole non-technology part that is anyway more important
1859648;1539027077;mircea_popescu;the situation of white woman on amazon island is that whatever the fuck you talk about, it's dirigible-to-shitshack more interesting than whatever ~else~ they could be hearing about.
1859649;1539027097;diana_coman;I'll have to sit down and sketch for myself some clear options so that I know what I want from this; then I can serve it to them "take it or leave it" and that is that
1859650;1539027110;mircea_popescu;men have been hanged for less.
1859651;1539027178;mircea_popescu;watch that she ends up with an academia chair, thereby having ended up in the exact latrine she was trying to avoid by virtue of the very hay she was avoiding it by!
1859652;1539027183;mircea_popescu;IRONY WORLD.
1859653;1539027185;diana_coman;ahahah
1859654;1539027196;BingoBoingo;lol
1859655;1539027229;mircea_popescu;diana_coman if you end up seeing Framedragger / jimmy hoffa / elvis tell them they're missed.
1859656;1539027259;diana_coman;lol! who's jimmy hoffa?
1859657;1539027270;mod6;holler at vrag for me
1859658;1539027273;mircea_popescu;teamsters union head, famous disappearance act.
1859659;1539027279;mircea_popescu;mod6 word!
1859660;1539027312;BingoBoingo;Anyways, presenting conservative sanity as thoughtful "minimalism" has tremendous social engineering value by brainfucking the pantsuit
1859661;1539027389;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in the spirit of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-31#1663960 are you aware the age-honored mobster expression for "ran away/disappeared" is "took a powder", literally conflating the two FOR THE REASON of making your exact point in folkloric style ?
1859662;1539027389;a111;Logged on 2017-05-31 16:28 asciilifeform: and if someone wants to mention godel etc -- ethical engineer MAY NOT cite godel, EVER, just as a police detective MAY NOT cite the supernatural and admit a hypothesis of miraculous theft from a safe
1859663;1539027433;mircea_popescu;(reference is to the perception of magician's acts)
1859664;1539027898;asciilifeform;hm
1859665;1539027900;asciilifeform;new one, to me
1859666;1539028122;asciilifeform;it does stylistically fit, yes
1859667;1539028651;mircea_popescu;attested in thieves cant since 17th century.
1859668;1539033015;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/meanwhile/ << Trilema - Meanwhile...
1859669;1539033221;mod6;lol like a moth to a flame 'eh?
1859670;1539033537;asciilifeform;aaand blox begin to appear..
1859671;1539033707;mod6;did you get 912?
1859672;1539033866;mod6;ok, i see some nodes drinking it down: https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/
1859673;1539034498;mircea_popescu;kek
1859674;1539035056;BingoBoingo;I see up to 544936
1859675;1539035160;mod6;940 is current... so just a few behind atm
1859676;1539035200;*;mod6 bbl
1859677;1539035299;BingoBoingo;And now 37
1859678;1539035354;asciilifeform;incidentally just cuz a heathen says he is 'current' dun mean much, reorgs are a thing
1859679;1539035439;asciilifeform;( will be interesting to see what the dynamic is once we have chain/forklet-reorg plotter going )
1859680;1539037223;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=45 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/05/2018
1859681;1539040544;BingoBoingo;As mimi is not logging pizarro I present the latest report draft http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XAMut/?raw=true for mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform and all other interested parties
1859682;1539041384;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo !
1859683;1539041404;trinque;"Bingoboingo provided an update on where the good drugs are located" << these things are hysterical.
1859684;1539041422;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, who the fuck is billymg ?
1859685;1539041426;asciilifeform;!#born billymg
1859686;1539041428;BingoBoingo;trinque: I submitted a comment clarifying that line concerned where the crap drugs are located
1859687;1539041468;asciilifeform;uhm, phf , does a111 not know how to say null ?
1859688;1539041487;asciilifeform;anyway billymg appears to be a remora who's never spoken but clutters up my tabcomplete for BingoBoingo !111
1859689;1539041656;BingoBoingo;I'm not turning up anything in heathen pits but someone who maybe contributed more bugs to drupal
1859690;1539041689;trinque;!!up billymg
1859691;1539041690;deedbot;billymg voiced for 30 minutes.
1859692;1539041692;asciilifeform;for some reason i thought that we were rid of these
1859693;1539041729;trinque;billymg: anyone back there, eh?
1859694;1539041792;BingoBoingo;!!downkickban billymg lurking with a nick that inconveniences tabcomplete
1859695;1539041802;BingoBoingo;!!down billymg
1859696;1539041861;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859589 << I didn't send, no.  Should I replace Hanna's name in there and the phone number?
1859697;1539041861;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 18:54 asciilifeform envisions sumthing in the vein of hanbot's letter ( hey mod6 , did that ever get sent anywhere yet ? ) but obv the detail is up to diana_coman's skilled hand
1859698;1539041868;BingoBoingo;If there was life there zhe could have addressed the forum before Q2 2018.
1859699;1539041892;trinque;truth. the new voicing behavior oughta help when it comes about.
1859700;1539043261;mod6;my nodes are caught back up, fwiw
1859701;1539061989;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: tyvm for bringing that to my attention. i dropped the ball on service cutover. as mp astutely observed, the temporary host for these services is not a cuntoo, but some heathen convenience, conveniently different enough from my normal remote home that the logger for the ircbot refused to start, which (somehow!!!!!) fouled the bot's self reboot capabilities.
1859702;1539062145;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: You're welcome. Message made it into a logged channel, glad you debugged and reported the experience.
1859703;1539062167;ben_vulpes;apologies for the degredation in service, i have personal irc logs and will stitch them back into history
1859704;1539062185;*;BingoBoingo awaits signs of life from mocky in Sandy Uruguay
1859705;1539063094;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=46 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/06/2018
1859706;1539063221;ben_vulpes;in boring meatnyooz i liquidated the corvette (at a 16 2/3% loss from purchase, notbad given the damage i did to it experimenting with exciting nonstandard control regimes), hired cleaners, scheduled pianoanchor for transfer to a good friend remaining in libtardistan, basement is packed; girl has mucked augean stables of corporeal art school baggage, booked temporary housing at $dest and has been working the
1859707;1539063223;ben_vulpes;phones to line up nexthouse like a champ; the only things left are to get someone to install grates over the roof vents, rent the house, and skeeeeeedaddle.
1859708;1539063260;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859623 << this is what happened to that node when i ran it without the increased aggression patch
1859709;1539063260;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 19:06 mircea_popescu: http://logs.bvulpes.com/chainstate?d=2018-8-31#416460 << mimi even longer ago ?!
1859710;1539065204;Mocky;I have arrived
1859711;1539065296;diana_coman;oh hey, how's Qatar, Mocky ?
1859712;1539065368;Mocky;reminds me of 29 palms california. I guess desert pretty much the same everywhere
1859713;1539065534;diana_coman;at least they have internet!
1859714;1539066140;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859485 >> we headed up the east coast from raleigh past dc, ny, and started over the atlantic at cape cod. shortly after cape cod we turned back to nyc. pilot said primary systems all functioning correctly but a backup system has a malfunction light on and they cant fly more than an hour from land like that.
1859715;1539066140;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 16:24 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, in London; though he did have a weird flight - went back to New York, repaired plane, went back
1859716;1539066220;Mocky;took them ~2hrs to fix and had to power down plane which drained the battery from some other system which then had to be recharged before we could leave
1859717;1539066339;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859497 >> not 30, 14 originally which was cut by 6 hours by repairs and heathrow shenanigans.
1859718;1539066339;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 16:31 mircea_popescu: good thing he placed a 30 hour gap there lmao. "what are you going to do in heathrow for that long !? " "fly back and forth repairing planes."
1859719;1539066477;Mocky;I had planned to visit imperial war museum and british museum, but didn't make it to either. I did see wellington arch, hyde park, buckingham palace and assorted others
1859720;1539066621;Mocky;so many bicycles in london! roving packs of ~dozen queueing up at just about every crosswalk stop, at least where I was
1859721;1539068054;Mocky;ugh, it's mid morning. i barely slept two hours each of last two nights. gonna be a long day
1859722;1539071384;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859699 << quite.
1859723;1539071384;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 23:38 trinque: truth. the new voicing behavior oughta help when it comes about.
1859724;1539071503;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859710 << wd!
1859725;1539071503;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 06:06 Mocky: I have arrived
1859726;1539071597;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859721 << so get some sleep.
1859727;1539071597;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 06:54 Mocky: ugh, it's mid morning. i barely slept two hours each of last two nights. gonna be a long day
1859728;1539071620;mircea_popescu;why be up to watch the atlantic slide by anyways!
1859729;1539090542;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859712 << congrats Mocky !!
1859730;1539090542;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 06:09 Mocky: reminds me of 29 palms california. I guess desert pretty much the same everywhere
1859731;1539094974;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Congratulations, and yes feel free to sleep
1859732;1539095326;mod6;Hey!
1859733;1539095335;mod6;Glad to hear ya made it Mocky. :]
1859734;1539099419;Mocky;!!key Mocky
1859735;1539099420;Mocky;!!key diana_away
1859736;1539099421;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/D6EC973F1D3C91CC1DD0AD43CF32BD2C54C2F93D.asc
1859737;1539099422;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/D6EC973F1D3C91CC1DD0AD43CF32BD2C54C2F93D.asc
1859738;1539099454;Mocky;that doesn't seem right
1859739;1539099455;mircea_popescu;o.O
1859740;1539099464;mod6;that seems strange
1859741;1539099472;mircea_popescu;trinque wtf happened ?! DING DONG!!!
1859742;1539099476;Mocky;this is my fingerprint
1859743;1539099486;mircea_popescu;Mocky wait, you're really diana ?!
1859744;1539099489;mircea_popescu;NO WONDER SHE MET YOU
1859745;1539099496;asciilifeform;lol!!
1859746;1539099497;trinque;!!key diana_away
1859747;1539099498;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/D6EC973F1D3C91CC1DD0AD43CF32BD2C54C2F93D.asc
1859748;1539099506;trinque;wat
1859749;1539099509;mircea_popescu;!!key diana_coman
1859750;1539099511;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/E72DCCB73A5E06694C5CD781D5196EE6390F999E.asc
1859751;1539099518;mircea_popescu;!!key Mocky_away
1859752;1539099519;deedbot;Not registered.
1859753;1539099531;trinque;no idea; I'll find out though.
1859754;1539099535;mircea_popescu;diana_coman did you register... mocky's key... as your away key ?!
1859755;1539099555;mircea_popescu;trinque this shouldn't be possible, they have to confirm a reg right ?
1859756;1539099655;trinque;no, unclaimed name fed a key gets that name
1859757;1539099670;mircea_popescu;ah, right right i recall now
1859758;1539099672;mircea_popescu;for noobs.
1859759;1539099688;trinque;yeah, open to changing, but that's how things stand
1859760;1539099690;mircea_popescu;maybe she had that in a buffer somewhere reg'd the wrong thing ?
1859761;1539099697;mircea_popescu;!!gettrust diana_away
1859762;1539099698;deedbot;L1: 1, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
1859763;1539099712;trinque;possible. there isn't a codepath to change a key, so I'd have to ponder what else might've happened.
1859764;1539099740;Mocky;wot.deedbot.org page for Mocky shows diana_away's one rating
1859765;1539099763;mircea_popescu;haxx
1859766;1539099774;Mocky;and one rating is imposter!
1859767;1539099790;Mocky;mircea_popescu, knew!
1859768;1539099793;trinque;Mocky: that part makes sense, as the filename is the fprint, which is clearly a bug
1859769;1539099812;mircea_popescu;!!#s diana_away
1859770;1539099816;mircea_popescu;um lol
1859771;1539099818;mircea_popescu;!#s diana_away
1859772;1539099819;a111;38 results for "diana_away", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=diana_away
1859773;1539099841;mircea_popescu;Mocky i absolutely was making a spurious joke ; no knowledge of anyu of this.
1859774;1539099875;Mocky;yeah, i get it. was just making spurious joke of my own
1859775;1539099882;mircea_popescu;kk.
1859776;1539099896;mircea_popescu;well, in a situation... better be plain.
1859777;1539100053;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in private : <nicoleci> now back to summarizing the logs everyone laughhs at :( <nicoleci> my lifes work <mircea_popescu> :D <mircea_popescu> can you believe how your life turned out btw ? <mircea_popescu> i mean, even in your darkest nightmares, "ima spend all day working really hard at this super tough task, only for everyone to laugh at my work" <nicoleci> nope, still unbelievable.. not sure when that reality wil
1859778;1539100053;mircea_popescu;l set in or if i should get off to it or cry :) <mircea_popescu> :D <mircea_popescu> i gotta say... when it comes to quality torture... i have no equal.
1859779;1539100059;mircea_popescu;thereby proving the point.
1859780;1539100205;mod6;I don't think I laughed, it's super hard job, even if you know what is going on.  Can't imagine if you don't.
1859781;1539100233;mircea_popescu;yes but unlike all these other assholes you're a kind and caring soul, mod6
1859782;1539100358;mod6;Heheh. Maybe so.  I'd like to think I'm getting more crusty in my old age, but maybe not!
1859783;1539101538;lobbes;congrats Mocky on the safe landing!
1859784;1539101542;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859601 << far away they are. not too long ago I went to an "Understanding Cryptocurrencies and Blockchain" webinar type thing here at $usg.toobigtofailbank. As you'd expect, was filled to the brim with such lulzgems as "Unlike bonds/equities, cryptocurrency has no intrinsic value. No way to establish price point!!". imo They are so far from reality it isn't even
1859785;1539101542;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 18:56 diana_coman: it's more a matter of wtf to do to get through to them in the least seeing how they are so ...far away on all dimensions to any reality
1859786;1539101548;lobbes;deliberate misinformation, it is simply that they have ~0 information to begin with
1859787;1539101624;mircea_popescu;i can believe.
1859788;1539101963;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=47 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/07/2018
1859789;1539102062;Mocky;thx lobbes. and thx asciilifeform, BingoBoingo, mod6, mircea_popescu
1859790;1539102486;phf;asciilifeform: apparently it's not been taught
1859791;1539102640;phf;trinque: can you please update my wot key one last time. http://btcbase.org/data/wot/phf.asc
1859792;1539102678;phf;i had expiration set on it, which i finally removed for good. the thinking at the time was that i didn't really trust my opsec (mac was still in the loop), but it wasn't much of thinking since the mechanism is promisetronic anyway. i also took an opportunity to clean it up off extra "identities" and random signatures
1859793;1539102752;phf;in related apparently you can't have a key without a subkey. the whole primary key/subkey mechanism appears to be mandatory. i think asciilifeform might've ranted about it, but i've not seen it mentioned in the logs
1859794;1539103026;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, o.O apparently I ...did; and I found out how, as well: the crappy lappy on which I had the away account had imported a few public keys, first of which Mocky's
1859795;1539103073;mircea_popescu;diana_coman so you literally exported his key as yours ?
1859796;1539103082;mircea_popescu;trinque ^ apparently pebkac
1859797;1539103101;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, yes
1859798;1539103130;mircea_popescu;phf we've all ranted about it at some time or another. needless to say replacement rsatron does not include idiotic half-baked state machines. much like trb-i doesn't include "accounts" nonsense.
1859799;1539103244;phf;i was under the impression that the subkey gets created as a default genkey behavior, but then you can shuffle things around through edit-key. if you were to remove the subkey through edit key leaving only primary, gnupg refuses to use the primary for encryption.
1859800;1539103260;diana_coman;sorry about the mess there trinque
1859801;1539103281;phf;but yeah, it comes up from time to time. i finally took time to observe the mechanism in action
1859802;1539103497;diana_coman;but hm, does this mean that basically anyone can register the public keys and mess up the http://wot.deedbot.org/ ?
1859803;1539103526;diana_coman;!!reputation Mocky
1859804;1539103528;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/UsOJx/?raw=true
1859805;1539103546;mircea_popescu;diana_coman only on new names.
1859806;1539103564;mircea_popescu;oh shit... you mean, register ~already seen~ pubkey for ~new name~ ?!
1859807;1539103568;diana_coman;aha
1859808;1539103588;diana_coman;the !!reputation thing is correct there though; so it might be only the visualizer
1859809;1539103594;mircea_popescu;trinque she has a point, that table needs a unique on the fp column. deedbot can't accept registeration of keys it's already seen.
1859810;1539103625;mircea_popescu;!!reputation mocky
1859811;1539103627;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TJE4r/?raw=true
1859812;1539103629;diana_coman;!!reputation diana_away
1859813;1539103631;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/f4VxW/?raw=true
1859814;1539103644;mircea_popescu;diana_coman you know what'd have been the lulz of all time ? if both pastes had the same 5digit id
1859815;1539103648;mircea_popescu;then we'd know this is a
1859816;1539103650;mircea_popescu;NIGHTMARE
1859817;1539103687;diana_coman;lol
1859818;1539103817;asciilifeform;!#s from:asciilifeform subkey
1859819;1539103817;a111;26 results for "from:asciilifeform subkey", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aasciilifeform%20subkey
1859820;1539103825;asciilifeform;phf: ^
1859821;1539103882;asciilifeform;e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-05#1360580 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-05#1360581 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-02#1719300
1859822;1539103882;a111;Logged on 2016-01-05 01:37 asciilifeform: my main objection to subkey as implemented in gpg is that IT DOES NOT TELL YOU OR EVEN LET YOU CHOOSE with which modulus (i.e. which sub) it actually signs with !
1859823;1539103882;a111;Logged on 2016-01-05 01:37 asciilifeform: anyone recall how mircea_popescu spewed chunks when i pointed out that he's been signing with a subkey and not with the magical modulus ?
1859824;1539103882;a111;Logged on 2017-10-02 00:49 asciilifeform: the funniest bit is that anybody who spends a few $10k to find sha1 collision, can take it one step further and make a valid subkey for asciilifeform's, or mircea_popescu's, etc. key
1859825;1539103894;asciilifeform;plenty of lulz in there
1859826;1539103906;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1859827;1539103913;mircea_popescu;let's just not even.
1859828;1539104612;phf;!#born god
1859829;1539104640;phf;!#born god
1859830;1539104643;phf;oops
1859831;1539104727;phf;!#born god
1859832;1539104760;Mocky;existential issues?
1859833;1539104944;mircea_popescu;off to the beach. plox not replace my key meanwhile.
1859834;1539104957;mircea_popescu;!#born dog
1859835;1539104992;phf;!#born god
1859836;1539104992;a111;I haven't seen god before
1859837;1539104995;phf;!#born dog
1859838;1539104995;a111;2012-09-04 <dog> http://img3i.www.spoki.lv/upload2/articles/51/516169/images/HELLO-YES-THIS-IS-DOG-11.jpg >> http://btcbase.org/log/2012-09-04#-282610
1859839;1539105002;mod6;:D
1859840;1539107892;asciilifeform;oh hey ty phf !
1859841;1539107978;*;asciilifeform back from dentist... new one better than prev, nao with anaesthetic! tho costs ~3x moar, pretty impressive inflatola, ~1k orcbux for ~halfhr of drill
1859842;1539108686;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859786 -> I tend to agree; given how easily I could tell the poor lecturer what was in his inherited slides *before I even saw them*, I guess they literally have (echo of an echo)^n and it was anyway just some hearsay to start with
1859843;1539108686;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 16:12 lobbes: deliberate misinformation, it is simply that they have ~0 information to begin with
1859844;1539108909;diana_coman;asciilifeform, for ~1k bux you can probably fly to Ro and back and have the dentist treatment included too?
1859845;1539109243;diana_coman;Mocky, btw sorry for the mess up with your public key; did it actually create a problem other than the wrong wot.deedbot graph?
1859846;1539109427;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859844 << if not counting the time -- then just about == , i expect, to a few %
1859847;1539109427;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:15 diana_coman: asciilifeform, for ~1k bux you can probably fly to Ro and back and have the dentist treatment included too?
1859848;1539109512;asciilifeform;by that token, cuba prolly even cheaper ( tho getting to it from the reich is a little tricky )
1859849;1539109631;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859842 << erry so often, when using searchtrons, i run across some slide deck from e.g. uni of bangalore etc., they invariably have this flavour, where it is clear that deck itself was made from googlelolade ,
1859850;1539109631;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:11 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859786 -> I tend to agree; given how easily I could tell the poor lecturer what was in his inherited slides *before I even saw them*, I guess they literally have (echo of an echo)^n and it was anyway just some hearsay to start with
1859851;1539109636;asciilifeform;with distinct smell of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575059
1859852;1539109636;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:04 asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too.  It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
1859853;1539109747;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it's not as much those particular slides themselves - it's simply that I haven't seen anything *other that that* in *any* "academia" material/discussion anywhere
1859854;1539109759;diana_coman;granted, I did not search for this but still
1859855;1539109770;diana_coman;(so perhaps there ...is somewhere, well hidden?)
1859856;1539109798;asciilifeform;diana_coman: erry so often i try an' search for some symptom that heathens know of trb etc., ~never found
1859857;1539109848;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859845 >> just a moment of confusion
1859858;1539109848;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:20 diana_coman: Mocky, btw sorry for the mess up with your public key; did it actually create a problem other than the wrong wot.deedbot graph?
1859859;1539109877;asciilifeform;ohai Mocky ! how is desert planet ?
1859860;1539109913;diana_coman;Mocky, ah, phew; still: sorry about it
1859861;1539110241;Mocky;asciilifeform, nice and warm. encountered a traffic wtf. stop light in the middle of the city with literal 10 minute cycle time in one direction ~20 seconds. took 3 cycles for my taxi to get thru
1859862;1539110265;asciilifeform;eh we have these here in washingtonistan
1859863;1539110275;Mocky;diana_coman, no worries, prolly better to expose the issue sooner than later
1859864;1539110732;Mocky;the building style is very different from what I've seen before, but ~all the signs include english subtitles for traffic and store fronts
1859865;1539110848;Mocky;speaking of streets, street names appear totally optional, address can be a paragraph long description.
1859866;1539110894;diana_coman;ahaha, costa rica style
1859867;1539111012;*;asciilifeform recalls mailing a FG to CR and address wouldn't fit on the customs form
1859868;1539111138;Mocky;it was funny to fly over the rural areas of qatar and see so many traffic circles and ~25% have a branch that dead ends into desert. prepared for growth i guess
1859869;1539111160;diana_coman;hm, speaking of costa rica style...do they actually have hot water at the taps in costa rica (i.e. not shower only)?
1859870;1539111168;diana_coman;in qatar*
1859871;1539111173;diana_coman;in costa rica I know they don't
1859872;1539111191;asciilifeform;nuts! i had nfi
1859873;1539111196;asciilifeform;barbarism.
1859874;1539111200;Mocky;i don't even know yet!
1859875;1539111248;asciilifeform;Mocky: does the place live up to the reputation for 'top smog' ?
1859876;1539111390;Mocky;the air looks quite smoggy, but also over the gulf and away from the city to the point where I wondered if it was actually smog
1859877;1539111405;diana_coman;asciilifeform, in some places they do but it wasn't the norm or everywhere/by default
1859878;1539111420;asciilifeform;Mocky: i seem to recall that they have petro-smog
1859879;1539111442;Mocky;makes sense
1859880;1539112451;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859791 << no problem, done.
1859881;1539112451;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 16:30 phf: trinque: can you please update my wot key one last time. http://btcbase.org/data/wot/phf.asc
1859882;1539112519;trinque;hrm, still showing as expired
1859883;1539114523;asciilifeform;!!key phf
1859884;1539114524;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/BDDE12104FE81BE7F83B698F5356DE4752432A9E.asc
1859885;1539114700;asciilifeform;^ loox like the old one ?
1859886;1539114771;asciilifeform;or hm no, has a new sig with today's date
1859887;1539114843;asciilifeform;confirmed that gpg still thinks 'expired' after eating
1859888;1539114845;asciilifeform;^ phf !
1859889;1539114917;asciilifeform;pretty odd tho, per my understanding it oughta work
1859890;1539114921;*;trinque will bbl to further dissect
1859891;1539114949;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JSaJ4/?raw=true << disasm, ftr
1859892;1539114981;asciilifeform;phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859792 << ftr the crud-scrubbing didn't work either, various old cruft still apparently in there
1859893;1539114981;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 16:31 phf: i had expiration set on it, which i finally removed for good. the thinking at the time was that i didn't really trust my opsec (mac was still in the loop), but it wasn't much of thinking since the mechanism is promisetronic anyway. i also took an opportunity to clean it up off extra "identities" and random signatures
1859894;1539115009;asciilifeform;tho it could be artifact of gpg on trinque end, depending on how he keeps these ( if you use the built-in 'import' mechanism, it never throws out cruft )
1859895;1539115052;*;trinque will take a signed message from phf on what cruft to saw off
1859896;1539118503;BingoBoingo;<diana_coman> asciilifeform, for ~1k bux you can probably fly to Ro and back and have the dentist treatment included too? << Also that sound like maybe 100-120 USD in Uruguay
1859897;1539119219;phf;trinque: i think something failed in the deedbot update, because the scrubbed key at link is proper. i've tested it, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cIIG6/?raw=true
1859898;1539119235;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> speaking of streets, street names appear totally optional, address can be a paragraph long description. << AHA, Montevideo killed that with sane street numbering, but apparently that happens in the boonies here
1859899;1539119261;asciilifeform;phf: try the one that deedbot returns to !!key , it dun go
1859900;1539119282;asciilifeform;oh nm already did
1859901;1539119296;asciilifeform;( i get exactly that   pub   4096R/52432A9E 2013-10-06 [expired: 2018-10-07]   )
1859902;1539119336;phf;asciilifeform: yeah, the paste shows that i grab keys from both urls, and the deedbot one is still the old key
1859903;1539119362;asciilifeform;phf: the deedbot one still does contain a sign with today's date tho
1859904;1539119367;asciilifeform;so can't be entirely old key
1859905;1539119442;asciilifeform;see lns. 1102 and 1344 of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859891
1859906;1539119442;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 19:55 asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JSaJ4/?raw=true << disasm, ftr
1859907;1539119598;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: dunno if you know how the local racket worx, but 120bux is what i actually paid on site; but if i add up the insurance premiums, it's ~breakeven
1859908;1539119681;asciilifeform;( twist : if you dun buy the insurance, the tooth-diddlers & quacks charge 2x )
1859909;1539119699;phf;asciilifeform: it looks like key updates got merge into the old key, rather than replacin it. the pub is the same, and hasn't been update (still marked as expired), but sub has been replaced, and is now "expired: never". it also added the new identity (where i removed the email) to the rest of the existing identities
1859910;1539119710;asciilifeform;phf: it's what i suspected aha
1859911;1539119719;asciilifeform;gpg --import  behaves like this.
1859912;1539119728;asciilifeform;somehow on koch planet, is seen as acceptable..
1859913;1539119758;asciilifeform;what i am puzzled by, is why i did not have this headache myself when i de-expired mine last yr
1859914;1539119809;phf;asciilifeform: did yours had both pub and sub set to expire, or only sub? you also probably has only one identity in your key
1859915;1539119847;asciilifeform;yea iirc only sub was expireful
1859916;1539119862;asciilifeform;and yes i had '1 identity' , why would i have moar
1859917;1539119869;asciilifeform;what useful does it do
1859918;1539119992;phf;hmm, oddly enough your old pub is also marked as expire
1859919;1539120005;asciilifeform;!!key asciilifeform
1859920;1539120006;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7.asc
1859921;1539120052;phf;this is your old key http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/nAdrX/?raw=true
1859922;1539120058;asciilifeform;aah the prev yes
1859923;1539120075;trinque;I used the gpg --import, which I gather didn't work
1859924;1539120121;phf;trinque: yeah, it basically appended all the new bits on top, and didn't reset the pub key's expire. you would have to do --delete-key before --import
1859925;1539120214;asciilifeform;phf: you should still be able to override the clock and sign a letter to trinque with old pub
1859926;1539120253;asciilifeform;( is why i de-expired mine, so i dun have to ask trinque for this favour again )
1859927;1539120691;*;trinque would prefer phf just sign "I would like trinque to delete my key and reimport X" for sanity's sake, as it saves me from having to reason through whether this new key is an acceptable substitute for prev, incurring all the "how does gpg really work again?" and so on.
1859928;1539120785;phf;trinque: ack, but i've also noticed that if i were to import ascii's new key over ascii's old key it resets the expirations on both pub and sub, so let me figure out what's going
1859929;1539120798;trinque;kk
1859930;1539124845;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell Mocky Don't forget to foto blog
1859931;1539126751;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/google-aborts-google-plus-after-leak-in-seventh-year-of-life/ << Qntra - Google Aborts "Google Plus" After Leak In Seventh Year Of Life
1859932;1539126859;asciilifeform;lol wtf was 'google plus'.
1859933;1539126876;asciilifeform;apparently asciilifeform is insufficiently expert entomologist... dun recall what it was.
1859934;1539126909;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's the google thing Linus kept his almost blog on
1859935;1539126923;asciilifeform;lolyea got this from the qntra
1859936;1539126933;BingoBoingo;But that's about it
1859937;1539126972;asciilifeform;reminds me of those blox of flats in bmore, where city brings out bulldozer when the 1 remaining old d00d in it finally keels
1859938;1539127026;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: recall, coupla yrs ago asciilifeform considered to buy one, then found he dun quite have the budget for the req'd terraforming
1859939;1539127391;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, kinda what it was
1859940;1539128850;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in archaeology : https://archive.is/QVIlg << rare example of non-google arm lappy. ( spoiler : out of print )
1859941;1539128871;asciilifeform;google somehow killed'em all, afaik.
1859942;1539128906;asciilifeform;unobtainium, near as i can tell, at any price.
1859943;1539134306;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/otmVF << in misc. heathen lulz.
1859944;1539134468;asciilifeform;in related lulz, according to the above heathen noad surveyor , #1 pseudonode hoster aint lulazon any moar, but : hetzner ( 1029 , vs lulazon's 726 )
1859945;1539134562;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/ltRHd << per same, of the 4 public noadez in BingoBoingostan, 3 are in pizarro
1859946;1539134587;asciilifeform;the exception : r179-25-205-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy << dialup ?!
1859947;1539134695;asciilifeform;qatar >> https://archive.is/uy5I6 << nuffing but prb... perhaps Mocky will fix..
1859948;1539134742;asciilifeform;in mircea_popescustan, claims 9 , all prb.
1859949;1539134797;asciilifeform;( granted if mircea_popescu has a mpb noad there, it won't show in in this heathen www , iirc they filter vers. #s <0.8 )
1859950;1539134990;asciilifeform;imho could be interesting to attempt a similar survey , but without the asinine filtration ( and on top of this, to forgo listing the liquishit that makes up 99+% of the supposed net )
1859951;1539135030;asciilifeform;... either via the usual means (instrumented node, spilling its peer table) or via brute force ( port scan 8333 )
1859952;1539136035;BingoBoingo;And we have a netsplit
1859953;1539141995;mircea_popescu;dun dun dun.
1859954;1539142448;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859841 << hory shit, i still pay ~40. includes pretty girl, nice view, lots and lots of hygienic ritualism... and anesthetic, tho i don't take that.
1859955;1539142448;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 17:59 asciilifeform back from dentist... new one better than prev, nao with anaesthetic! tho costs ~3x moar, pretty impressive inflatola, ~1k orcbux for ~halfhr of drill
1859956;1539142889;asciilifeform;i recall trilema piece even
1859957;1539142890;asciilifeform;ugh wat's going on with the log bots... both split..?
1859958;1539142890;asciilifeform;a111 and mimisbrunnr seem to be alive but not logging, from where i stand
1859959;1539142943;asciilifeform;hm, loox like the fleanode oddity mircea_popescu alluded to once, where mysterious 5min lag b/w fleanets
1859960;1539142963;phf;asciilifeform: i saw the last messages on btcbase, but i'm curious what if anything got lost
1859961;1539142967;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859861 << there's a famous half hour one in boston.
1859962;1539142967;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:37 Mocky: asciilifeform, nice and warm. encountered a traffic wtf. stop light in the middle of the city with literal 10 minute cycle time in one direction ~20 seconds. took 3 cycles for my taxi to get thru
1859963;1539142967;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859865 << roflmao.
1859964;1539142967;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:47 Mocky: speaking of streets, street names appear totally optional, address can be a paragraph long description.
1859965;1539142967;mircea_popescu;phf wait a111 is fucked ?
1859966;1539142967;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859875 << i guarantee you bogota is top smog.
1859967;1539142967;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:54 asciilifeform: Mocky: does the place live up to the reputation for 'top smog' ?
1859968;1539142967;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859895 << alf has a point, the correct process for updating key should include delete old one before import new one. otherwise you just end up with dysfunctional historical midden.
1859969;1539142967;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 19:57 trinque will take a signed message from phf on what cruft to saw off
1859970;1539142967;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't see a111 speaking at all
1859971;1539142978;mircea_popescu;wowza. SEVEN minute delay.
1859972;1539142994;asciilifeform;yea i just got a long burst of queued mircea_popescu
1859973;1539143012;phf;yeah, same
1859974;1539143018;mircea_popescu;Oct 09 21:35:43 <mircea_popescu>	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859861 Oct 09 21:42:13 <a111>	Logged on 2018-10-09 18:37 Mocky: asciilifeform, nice and warm
1859975;1539143018;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:37 Mocky: asciilifeform, nice and warm. encountered a traffic wtf. stop light in the middle of the city with literal 10 minute cycle time in one direction ~20 seconds. took 3 cycles for my taxi to get thru
1859976;1539143021;mircea_popescu;get a load of that.
1859977;1539143060;mircea_popescu;ftr, my lag (to card.freenode.net ircd-seven-1.1.7 DOQRSZaghilopswz CFILMPQSbcefgijklmnopqrstvz bkloveqjfI ) is 0.0s
1859978;1539143096;phf;it's definitely a lag between the irc servers, because i got the same burst of your messages, while i was getting ascii in realtime
1859979;1539143112;phf;or was i!
1859980;1539143153;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859930 << funny, girls were saying exactly this in between 8 foot waves / mouthfuls of gravel
1859981;1539143153;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 22:40 BingoBoingo: !Qlater tell Mocky Don't forget to foto blog
1859982;1539143237;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859933 << wasn;'t this the wanna-be google facebook ? born out of some dispute where facebook was gonna wean them off its ugc feedpipe ?
1859983;1539143237;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 23:14 asciilifeform: apparently asciilifeform is insufficiently expert entomologist... dun recall what it was.
1859984;1539143292;Mocky;good morning
1859985;1539143380;mircea_popescu;heya Mocky
1859986;1539143383;Mocky;foto blog is in the pipeline, sometime after figuring out coffee and food
1859987;1539143462;mircea_popescu;do muslims still not have strip clubs because females dancing is immoral ?
1859988;1539143486;Mocky;sunrise at 5:30, coffee shops opening at 7 or 8, *grunt*
1859989;1539143523;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859951 << i'd rather see the latter, if anyone feels like running it again.
1859990;1539143523;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 01:30 asciilifeform: ... either via the usual means (instrumented node, spilling its peer table) or via brute force ( port scan 8333 )
1859991;1539143530;mircea_popescu;speaking of which whatever happend to spyked !
1859992;1539143540;asciilifeform;!#seen spyked
1859993;1539143540;a111;2018-08-09 <spyked> some tests using sbcl, for reference: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lMcV9/?raw=true
1859994;1539143558;mircea_popescu;Mocky hotels usually have 24/7 coffee!
1859995;1539143661;Mocky;in this neighborhood evidently 24hr coffee = starbucks
1859996;1539143680;BingoBoingo;I don't think our Starbucks opens until 10 am
1859997;1539143739;Mocky;i'll be damned if i came 7 thousand miles to drink starbucks
1859998;1539143770;BingoBoingo;You should have seen the lines in April when it first opened
1859999;1539144021;Mocky;mircea_popescu, dunno: hard to tell if dancing while covered head to toe in black cloth
1860000;1539144105;Mocky;'plus' was googles chance to play the role of bing, but to facebook
1860001;1539144189;BingoBoingo;Nah, not with all the circles. Too much for users.
1860002;1539145651;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: both are logging, mine has a gap of several days i must stitch in.
1860003;1539145842;hanbot;BingoBoingo : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/huZPj/?raw=true
1860004;1539146317;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859869 >> btw yes to hot tap water
1860005;1539146317;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 18:52 diana_coman: hm, speaking of costa rica style...do they actually have hot water at the taps in costa rica (i.e. not shower only)?
1860006;1539154118;diana_coman;so hot water yes in qatar but coffee not before 7-8am, weird
1860007;1539179483;deedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 14: CRC32 Implementation with Lookup Table
1860008;1539184139;asciilifeform;diana_coman: pretty neat
1860009;1539184158;diana_coman;asciilifeform, thanks!
1860010;1539184200;asciilifeform;there's a whole bunch of weird stuff in gnat, some of it potentially plunderable, some -- dunno -- e.g. a ~complete implementation of SNOBOL
1860011;1539184337;asciilifeform;!!up billymg
1860012;1539184338;deedbot;billymg voiced for 30 minutes.
1860013;1539184360;billymg;thank you asciilifeform
1860014;1539184384;asciilifeform;billymg: now please repeat your introduction here
1860015;1539184474;billymg;first of all, apologies for cluttering the channel, i missed when my name was mentioned earlier
1860016;1539184480;billymg;i don't mean to only lurk, i'm a long time log reader and am hoping i can be of service to any of the lords in their projects. by trade (as defined in fiat land at least) i am a ux designer and developer. happy to introduce myself in the channel if i am voiced again
1860017;1539184496;asciilifeform;billymg: 1st step is to reg your key and get in wot :
1860018;1539184497;asciilifeform;!!help
1860019;1539184497;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/help.html
1860020;1539184506;billymg;!!key billymg
1860021;1539184507;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/F5E9580D424CB952E67CBF6F2BBEFC527DC1FE40.asc
1860022;1539184511;asciilifeform;oh hm
1860023;1539184518;asciilifeform;!!reputation billymg
1860024;1539184520;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/039Or/?raw=true
1860025;1539184536;asciilifeform;!!rate billymg 1 new blood
1860026;1539184539;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/MeL3C/?raw=true
1860027;1539184551;billymg;:D
1860028;1539184555;billymg;thank you
1860029;1539184562;asciilifeform;!!v 956CEC42CF618AE84AD5C2755938990AB9542403FB1B409F1CD19EA5D8DA7DD8
1860030;1539184563;deedbot;asciilifeform rated billymg 1 << new blood
1860031;1539184569;asciilifeform;billymg: now try voicing yerself
1860032;1539184586;billymg;!!up billymg
1860033;1539184589;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Cji3L/?raw=true
1860034;1539184599;asciilifeform;billymg: pm to deedbot
1860035;1539184607;asciilifeform;otherwise won't work when you're newly plugged in
1860036;1539184826;billymg;i pm the output of the decrypted OTP to deedbot?
1860037;1539184852;asciilifeform;you pm it !!v yourdecryptedstring
1860038;1539184865;asciilifeform;like that.
1860039;1539184868;billymg;ah cool!
1860040;1539184928;asciilifeform;billymg: nao tell us about yerself
1860041;1539185139;billymg;i work for your typical sv company, which is my current connection to a fiat faucet, and for that reason i'd like to keep this identity separate from my fiat identity (to avoid an overzealous coworker who may stumble upon the logs trying to get me kicked for a CoC violation or whatever)
1860042;1539185200;asciilifeform;billymg: i suspect that this hazard is largely mythical : asciilifeform for instance has blogged under his human name for >decade nao, and never 1nce encountered this problem
1860043;1539185245;billymg;i have been working in the "tech industry" for about 10 years now, mostly as a ux designer but i can also produce code
1860044;1539185271;asciilifeform;billymg: for so long as you avoid obvious hand-in-bear-trap in the vein of 'hi, i'm j. smith and i work for xyz corp and their product is liquishit' , generally nobody gives a shit
1860045;1539185292;billymg;asciilifeform: ah, i understood that your situation was more independent, like that of a consultant/contractor?
1860046;1539185295;asciilifeform;billymg: if you're ux/art expert, you will definitely want to be around when mircea_popescu wakes up
1860047;1539185303;asciilifeform;billymg: not always
1860048;1539185429;billymg;fair enough
1860049;1539185455;billymg;art not so much (not a designer of the graphic/illustrator variety)
1860050;1539185459;asciilifeform;billymg: in my experience, if yer fiat shop is looking for a reason to sack you, they'll find one whether or not you posted anyffing 'interesting' ; and if not, and you're actually doing something useful there for the pay, then not
1860051;1539185499;billymg;but more of the software interface variety. although i can also make things look aesthetically pleasing
1860052;1539185519;asciilifeform;billymg: you'll definitely want to speak to mircea_popescu & diana_coman , i suspect
1860053;1539185521;billymg;but i have worked a lot with those in the graphic/illustration side, so can speak their language and manage them through projects if need be
1860054;1539185524;asciilifeform;billymg: are you familiar with s.mg ?
1860055;1539185548;billymg;that's the area of the republic i am perhaps least familiar with
1860056;1539185560;billymg;i know it's the home of eulora
1860057;1539185569;billymg;but not much more
1860058;1539185634;billymg;if that's where the priority is though, then it would be great to help out there
1860059;1539185648;asciilifeform;as i understand that's who ~might~ be interested in ui expertise
1860060;1539185675;asciilifeform;billymg: be sure to stick around when mircea_popescu wakes up, and have portfolio of some kind for him to see
1860061;1539185692;asciilifeform;( hopefully you have an example of ui work that aint secret )
1860062;1539185847;billymg;i can pull together some older examples, will think about where to host/publish
1860063;1539185874;billymg;more recently i was running the design operation for the company though
1860064;1539185953;BingoBoingo;billymg: You probably want to hang out in #eulora
1860065;1539185967;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in national news: Snake! http://archive.is/OOW1J
1860066;1539186114;billymg;BingoBoingo: buenos dias, gracias
1860067;1539186954;mircea_popescu;phf young harlot made "oh, all my friends are on sugardaddy type sites now" comment, made me think of you.
1860068;1539187062;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu
1860069;1539187125;mircea_popescu;hola
1860070;1539187158;*;asciilifeform reads the #e spamola, some of it is a++ lulz
1860071;1539187174;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4iZMu/?raw=true
1860072;1539187200;asciilifeform;e.g. http://logs.bvulpes.com/eulora?d=2018-10-10#438852
1860073;1539187218;asciilifeform;ugh where's mimisbrunnr
1860074;1539187240;asciilifeform;hey ben_vulpes i think mimisbrunnr's voicer br0ke
1860075;1539187322;mircea_popescu;i read !Qatar...
1860076;1539187332;asciilifeform;lol
1860077;1539187418;asciilifeform;lobbesbot entirely awol
1860078;1539187542;BingoBoingo;In other news, today is pizarro invoicing day and hanbot's auction closed per "<lobbesbot> AUCTION # 367 has ENDED: 500usd via WU SOLD to BingoBoingo for 76mn coppers. Attn: hanbot" leading to a price of 6579 usd/BTC
1860079;1539187582;asciilifeform;oh hey 1st, afaik, properly-formed usd rate evah
1860080;1539187583;BingoBoingo;As this was a public auction, I am inclined to believe this is the number we should be using for invoicing.
1860081;1539187857;mircea_popescu;win.
1860082;1539187989;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860007 << win #2.
1860083;1539187989;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 13:51 deedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 14: CRC32 Implementation with Lookup Table
1860084;1539187997;mircea_popescu;dude it's great waking up in the morning.
1860085;1539188219;mircea_popescu;!!rate billymg 1 noob.
1860086;1539188222;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Q82xE/?raw=true
1860087;1539188268;billymg;mircea_popescu: ty
1860088;1539188288;mircea_popescu;are you the "BT" on diana_coman 's comment section ?
1860089;1539188301;billymg;i am not
1860090;1539188304;mircea_popescu;a ok
1860091;1539188325;billymg;this nick is new, my key is new, and i am new at irc
1860092;1539188355;mircea_popescu;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/04/results-of-testing-udp-take-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4288 << item also new :p
1860093;1539188453;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860042 << yes but alf also never worked for sv.
1860094;1539188453;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 15:26 asciilifeform: billymg: i suspect that this hazard is largely mythical : asciilifeform for instance has blogged under his human name for >decade nao, and never 1nce encountered this problem
1860095;1539188480;mircea_popescu;you have no idea (in fact, i am sure no human can form idea, as an attempt from first principles) what the frisco atmosphere is like these days.
1860096;1539188524;mircea_popescu;they literally caged ~50k monkeys who have nothing to do all day. king of the flies is a joke, these are adults (well...) not highschoolers and tens of thousands not hundreds.
1860097;1539188580;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i only have a distant idea ( sorta like my idea of the atmosphere of venus )
1860098;1539188585;billymg;fwiw i'm in the nyc branch of sv (impossible to distinguish, i imagine, when on "campus")
1860099;1539188620;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but you're missing the details, such as "girls complaint ? air corrodes tampon thread, can't pull them back out" sorta truly annoying interplay of general principles.
1860100;1539188682;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860043 << if you're very much dedicated to sticking to ux, eg eulora's client's in the early stages of being rewritten, Mocky may want you. otherwise, just pick something and whine at the owner, from v to whatever. write a mp-wp theme. there\s wghat to do.
1860101;1539188682;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 15:27 billymg: i have been working in the "tech industry" for about 10 years now, mostly as a ux designer but i can also produce code
1860102;1539188693;mircea_popescu;if not -- learn ada or sql or something.
1860103;1539188696;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i am also missing-the-details on, e.g., exactly what hand feels like in a bear trap. but got enuff sense not to put it in, or go to sv..
1860104;1539188706;mircea_popescu;well... delicious cake, alfie.
1860105;1539188723;*;asciilifeform was offered ' go to sv! double, triple pay!111 ' many times, isn't quite ~that~ stupid
1860106;1539188730;mircea_popescu;you don't understand how the world works because alien dragon being of pure energy, charges from wall socket.
1860107;1539188798;mircea_popescu;btw, i utterly fucked up my maffs (i bring sake excuse) : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859954 tis not 40, tis 160. i applied the 2 factor wrong way.
1860108;1539188798;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 03:34 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859841 << hory shit, i still pay ~40. includes pretty girl, nice view, lots and lots of hygienic ritualism... and anesthetic, tho i don't take that.
1860109;1539188955;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do you sake hot or cold ?
1860110;1539188961;*;asciilifeform cold
1860111;1539188990;billymg;mircea_popescu: thank you. Mocky: let me know if you need help with anything
1860112;1539189045;billymg;somewhat related to an mp-wp theme, i'd very much like some reliable hosting. do i join #pizarro to ask about that?
1860113;1539189056;asciilifeform;billymg: absolutely yes
1860114;1539189071;asciilifeform;there's 2 vacant rk boxes btw
1860115;1539189088;asciilifeform;with brand-new disks.
1860116;1539189147;asciilifeform;billymg: http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-hosting-rate-sheet/
1860117;1539189232;billymg;are the rockchip mini servers shared hosting as well? or is it 1:1 customer:hardware?
1860118;1539189267;asciilifeform;billymg: dedicated per customer
1860119;1539189270;asciilifeform;physical box.
1860120;1539189349;billymg;i tried speaking in pizarro, i don't see a deedbot to message about voice
1860121;1539189351;asciilifeform;billymg: http://aaronrogier.net/fanfront.jpg
1860122;1539189382;asciilifeform;billymg: it's manually cranked. you should be voiced nao
1860123;1539189403;billymg;thank you
1860124;1539189794;BingoBoingo;!!invoice billymg 0.03419973 Rockchip 1 Quarter
1860125;1539189799;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JySMP/?raw=true
1860126;1539189813;asciilifeform;billymg: you'll want to fill up your deedbot wallet.
1860127;1539189834;BingoBoingo;!!v 8E22ADBD80D9C4F16ED2424A5FE3DED7BB70838A3876F77A97A80A33C14239E4
1860128;1539189837;deedbot;Invoiced billymg 0.03419973 << Rockchip 1 Quarter
1860129;1539189842;asciilifeform;billymg: see section 4 of http://deedbot.org/help.html
1860130;1539190031;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform warm here.
1860131;1539190061;mircea_popescu;but really, i'm not a huge fan. mostly got it for teh hussies. also had splendid green matcha, mutcha bettera.
1860132;1539190063;*;asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu drinking warm sake from genuine vintage tin cup from kamikaze corps
1860133;1539190090;mircea_popescu;actually this is a very nice japanese place, eel, yellowtail, red snapper, even serves kimchi.
1860134;1539190097;asciilifeform;neato.
1860135;1539190100;mircea_popescu;(immature and overspicy, but then again they're not koreean)
1860136;1539190714;asciilifeform;billymg: prolly this is obvious, but i'ma remind for the record : whatever you do, dun lose yer pgp key. it's your only connection to the wallet, pizarro, wot . nothing can be done for folx who lose key.
1860137;1539190766;mircea_popescu;well, folks who personally know other folks can beg for a rebirth cert from those other folks. not that it fixes everything.
1860138;1539190773;asciilifeform;billymg: the only way to ever change a key is to 1) sign with old 2) ask trinque politely. there are no 'emergency resets'.
1860139;1539190797;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: right, but this is not to be relied on. and only even in principle could work for close meatspace associates of existing l1 folx.
1860140;1539190874;mircea_popescu;in any case, even if i say "basfii-liceform is actually asciilifeform 's new key, he managed to lose the old one", you'll be stuck speaking from the new name and depending on everyone evermore both a) encountering that notice and b) giving a shit, to jump the gap.
1860141;1539190895;asciilifeform;aha
1860142;1539190900;billymg;asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: understood
1860143;1539190918;asciilifeform;losing key is the ultimate 'coarse error of pilotage', and it's happened before, so worth mentioning to all n00bz.
1860144;1539190937;mircea_popescu;i thought it's "gross error"
1860145;1539190947;asciilifeform;right, prolly better engl.
1860146;1539190960;*;asciilifeform has nfi what the english pilots call it. perhaps 'mccain pilotage'...
1860147;1539190971;mircea_popescu;lol. mostly used by crash inspectors.
1860148;1539190980;asciilifeform;naturally
1860149;1539191072;billymg;what is the best method for backup? other drives or paper/physical?
1860150;1539191086;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/unelf/?raw=true
1860151;1539191109;mircea_popescu;billymg this is altogether an open question.
1860152;1539191115;asciilifeform;billymg: intensely personal matter. put it where 1) you'll find it, and can decipher 2) nosy third parties, won't
1860153;1539191156;billymg;fair enough
1860154;1539191177;asciilifeform;billymg: for some , ciphrogram printed on drum printer; for other folx -- burn a 1980s rom chip and put in a crate of 9000 identicals ; for yet others -- memorize ; very deeply personal preference
1860155;1539191201;mircea_popescu;tattoo on slavegirls, whynot. then -- 3bn identicals!
1860156;1539191207;billymg;lol
1860157;1539191266;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bkxGd/?raw=true
1860158;1539191277;asciilifeform;billymg: out of general principle, and esp. for usaschwitz inmates, it dun hurt to have a well-masqueraded copy sitting some place far from yours or your associates' usual business & habitation
1860159;1539191277;mircea_popescu;i just noticed i sent BingoBoingo an unelf message. were you elf'd before ?
1860160;1539191348;BingoBoingo;I may have been
1860161;1539191365;BingoBoingo;Imma have to do some history consulting
1860162;1539191372;mircea_popescu;whatever, key defense function of key value. so far he's just some guy with a coupla noob ratings. can be reproduced in ~afternoon.
1860163;1539191388;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i mentioned it because he put some qty of coin in wallet.
1860164;1539191398;mircea_popescu;oh. right then.
1860165;1539191399;asciilifeform;so potentially painful.
1860166;1539191421;mircea_popescu;iirc other than new voice model, a "flush addy" was also in deedbot upgrade spec.
1860167;1539191432;mircea_popescu;not that it solves the ~general problem~, now gotta safeguard the addy.
1860168;1539191437;billymg;!!reputation billymg
1860169;1539191439;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Gmq2l/?raw=true
1860170;1539191457;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo don't you find it distinctly amusing that reputation has "puta" in it ?
1860171;1539191458;billymg;not even coupla noob ratings :(
1860172;1539191480;asciilifeform;billymg: it's refreshed nightly
1860173;1539191491;asciilifeform;billymg: notice that you're self-voicing, so the actual mechanism is real-time.
1860174;1539191496;billymg;ah, got it
1860175;1539191496;asciilifeform;only the display, presently, isn't.
1860176;1539191497;mircea_popescu;nothing's instantaneous.
1860177;1539191533;asciilifeform;billymg: you may also take an interest in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1762 , tho the mechanism relies on friendship with existing l1 folx , and is considered experimental ( it is a means of insuring against catastrophic crypto breaks )
1860178;1539191598;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I find it entirely natural and to reputation's credit that it would have puta
1860179;1539191624;mircea_popescu;la re-puta-cion de los di-puta-dos!
1860180;1539191625;billymg;asciilifeform: excellent, noted
1860181;1539191693;mircea_popescu;even translates fine back to english : the rewhoreation of the biwhoretwos.
1860182;1539191872;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo hory shit that's a pit viper.
1860183;1539192050;BingoBoingo;Well, it's a couple beaches away from me
1860184;1539192067;mircea_popescu;i had nfi they even lived there.
1860185;1539192161;BingoBoingo;Well, people bring pets
1860186;1539192171;mircea_popescu;that's a helluva pet.
1860187;1539192177;mircea_popescu;but yeah i guess, circus or w/e sorta thing.
1860188;1539192294;BingoBoingo;I think they also might have a zoo over there
1860189;1539192304;BingoBoingo;Fellow could have hitched a ride on a truck
1860190;1539192356;mircea_popescu;snake can be very sneaky, but usually younger / adolescent males. this dude seems quite adult, i'd expect moar territorial with hissings and whatnot.
1860191;1539192562;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: my recollection is that circus snakes are typically 'fixed', de-venomed. if was 'pet', then prolly belonged to hindu fella
1860192;1539192792;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in orcistan where zoo snake still has glands, prolly the war museum has shells with live fuse still in, betcha
1860193;1539192838;mircea_popescu;usually... who knows. i can't tell from pic iof still has his lol
1860194;1539192872;BingoBoingo;Well, Carrasco where the fellow was found is one of the "richer" barrios
1860195;1539192885;asciilifeform;incidentally, erry so often, a critter untypical for $region turns up, having stowed away in asian shipping container
1860196;1539192899;asciilifeform;it's how we got those pestilential stink-beetles here in washingtonistan
1860197;1539192961;*;asciilifeform when reads of 'venomous snake found', inevitably thinks of conan doyle's 'speckled band'
1860198;1539193000;mircea_popescu;kinda how the plague m,oved, too. old history of shipping spreading... new ideas.
1860199;1539193009;asciilifeform;or prior : the rat
1860200;1539193024;asciilifeform;( difficult to picture nao, but at one time the rat was unknown west of urals )
1860201;1539193050;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu recall when 'venetian mouse!111'
1860202;1539193074;asciilifeform;there are nao raccoon, i recall, in germany, some idjit brought'em in
1860203;1539193087;BingoBoingo;Well, shipping container would be on the other side of the city. Could be airplane passenger
1860204;1539193115;BingoBoingo;hitchhiked on landing gear, fell when doors opened
1860205;1539193121;mircea_popescu;lmao
1860206;1539193166;asciilifeform;( raccoon, to euro folx, can look like exotic fairy tale beast, but it's effectively a dog-sized rat , can chew hole straight through the typical north ameristani wooden house )
1860207;1539193183;BingoBoingo;Well, location of being found lines up with airplane approach path
1860208;1539193202;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's ok, euros don't build like that.
1860209;1539193225;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they have fields tho. and it apparently knows how to level a hectare/day, like boar
1860210;1539193234;asciilifeform;mega-pest
1860211;1539193238;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> ( raccoon, to euro folx, can look like exotic fairy tale beast, but it's effectively a dog-sized rat , can chew hole straight through the typical north ameristani wooden house ) << Latinas apparently view mapache (aka. trash panda) as mystery critter and protagonist of children's stories
1860212;1539193239;mircea_popescu;most of yurp pays farmers NOT to farm.
1860213;1539193311;mircea_popescu;" Latinas apparently view mapache (aka. trash panda) as mystery critter" << that's pretty funny, seeing how... that's EXACTLY how people see latinas themselves!
1860214;1539193341;asciilifeform;lol
1860215;1539193392;mircea_popescu;https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iur/?f=1&image_host=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F564x%2F5d%2F0d%2F41%2F5d0d4100cb53317b38a9ae660baab73f.jpg&u=https://i.pinimg.com/564x/5d/0d/41/5d0d4100cb53317b38a9ae660baab73f.jpg
1860216;1539193411;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: critter is amazingly resilient, like some kinda miniature grizzly, can eat a 300m/sec gram into forehead and still run
1860217;1539193432;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, maybe you need a better dog?
1860218;1539193472;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i dun have a dog, or where to.
1860219;1539193485;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: only the 2nd best pill.
1860220;1539193499;mircea_popescu;lol you hunting coons with red ryder ?!
1860221;1539193513;mircea_popescu;aaahahahaha o god
1860222;1539193514;mircea_popescu;ok this was the comedy highpoint of the day!
1860223;1539193535;asciilifeform;what's a 'red ryder'
1860224;1539193547;mircea_popescu;15yo's rifle.
1860225;1539193559;asciilifeform;aa no, not quite so sad
1860226;1539193575;mircea_popescu;then what's the
1860227;1539193578;BingoBoingo;The best ways to coonicide are 1. 100 lb dog assigned to sentry duty 2. cage traps 3. projectile weapons
1860228;1539193578;mircea_popescu;"300m/s gram" ?
1860229;1539193596;asciilifeform;item drills 2x4 wooden plank, phone book, etc.; specially built for that type of pest.
1860230;1539193609;mircea_popescu;anyway, from experience of my north american east coast dwelling friends, the correct racoon weapon is actually a crossbow.
1860231;1539193616;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, i tried those 1st
1860232;1539193622;mircea_popescu;no dice ?
1860233;1539193633;asciilifeform;nope, gallops away with arrow straight thru
1860234;1539193638;mircea_popescu;o.O
1860235;1539193642;asciilifeform;they're some kinda mutant horror.
1860236;1539193645;mircea_popescu;maybe they meanwhile build armor.
1860237;1539193656;asciilifeform;the fat from eating garbage, is mega-armour.
1860238;1539193661;mircea_popescu;lol.
1860239;1539193665;mircea_popescu;kinda what fat is, yeah.
1860240;1539193682;BingoBoingo;This is why you need 45 kg of either black and tan or bluetick hound assigned to sentry duty against 3 lb pest
1860241;1539193707;*;asciilifeform would happily use elephant rifle, but not so great in 'civilized' city, 9000 police cars in 5min if one were to
1860242;1539193829;BingoBoingo;http://img3.dogthelove.com/201704/2017/0515/3a/3/022426/original.jpg << One certified killing machine found in quick search
1860243;1539193865;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: believe or not, i actually like (certain) animals, would not inflict habitat like this on dog
1860244;1539193884;BingoBoingo;The dogs enjoy the work
1860245;1539193894;BingoBoingo;They go crazy without it
1860246;1539193905;asciilifeform;( neighbours have pit bulls, and the poor beasts writhe in their miniscule yard )
1860247;1539193964;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 40 pound pest. ( last one i weighed... )
1860248;1539193984;asciilifeform;muzzle as big as some dog's.
1860249;1539194031;BingoBoingo;What the fuck is your neighborhood feeding them
1860250;1539194031;asciilifeform;the beautiful 'natural' wonders of north-ameristan...
1860251;1539194041;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nfi
1860252;1539194052;asciilifeform;prolly walmartola leftovers.
1860253;1539194112;BingoBoingo;And this is why people resort to leaving flybait out for all comers http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-19#1715742
1860254;1539194112;a111;Logged on 2017-09-19 04:57 asciilifeform: trinque: how'd you react to neighbour cornfuck leaving poisoned bait for your beast to find ?
1860255;1539194175;BingoBoingo;Maybe you need to start a coyote reintroduction program in your region?
1860256;1539194188;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: erry so often, some fucktard does the poison thing, all the cats die, raccoons just get high on it
1860257;1539194215;mircea_popescu;lmao
1860258;1539194245;mircea_popescu;hence the old west expression "a coon's age" for ~forever.
1860259;1539194250;mircea_popescu;deathless beast of the fronteer!
1860260;1539194259;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lives for ~decade in wild easily.
1860261;1539194264;asciilifeform;quite unlike rat.
1860262;1539194290;asciilifeform;and generally clever enuff not to get under trucks; even has opposable thumb, can open doors, simple locks, latches...
1860263;1539195108;Mocky;speaking of deathless beasts in the wild, I'm curious how other people get notified when you have new blog comment to be moderated.
1860264;1539195214;asciilifeform;Mocky: mine emails. but i dun recall if mp-wp has this knob.
1860265;1539195491;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: to round out the thread, trick was to actually rtfm -- forehead thick. gram in ear was the magic pill, worked where arrow in torso didn't.
1860266;1539195546;asciilifeform;i bet pro exterminators study skulls, dissect, properly do homework.
1860267;1539195615;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: lives for ~decade in wild easily. << From what I understand coons live fast for 1-3 years and that's it
1860268;1539195636;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: maybe in forest of montana.
1860269;1539195646;asciilifeform;where they gotta actually forage for wasp hives etc
1860270;1539195839;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i recall this video of a coon exhibiting all the "intelligent" behaviour of black chicks code : was rubbing a rock against a glass door, because it had seen rocks open glass doors before but didn't quite understand how impact works. so cargocultcoon.
1860271;1539195893;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there aint so many critters that know how to think about glass
1860272;1539195903;mircea_popescu;right. but -- trying, works!
1860273;1539195948;asciilifeform;if they learn how to use rocks, we're sunk
1860274;1539195975;asciilifeform;( or at least 'civilized' ameristan is )
1860275;1539195992;asciilifeform;fortunately thing has ~wallnut brain.
1860276;1539195995;asciilifeform;*walnut
1860277;1539195999;mircea_popescu;molotov cocktail coon squad!
1860278;1539196014;mircea_popescu;they really could do it! rob 7/11 stores for bottles and car tanks for gasoline, end the world.
1860279;1539196022;asciilifeform;recall, rats in stalingrad chewed cables, took out plenty of tank turret rotators on both sides
1860280;1539196045;mircea_popescu;yup
1860281;1539196048;asciilifeform;imho raccoon bred for brain would be mega-bioweapon.
1860282;1539196119;asciilifeform;fuckers can unscrew jars.
1860283;1539196264;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl-QY84hojs << hah, found mircea_popescu's rock beast
1860284;1539196537;mircea_popescu;https://giphy.com/embed/xTiTnjIMFuZMVemr8k << item
1860285;1539196896;asciilifeform;yea same
1860286;1539197364;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> fuckers can unscrew jars. << The can also "play", I recall one time at scoutcamp they improvised a hockey game using a tin as a puck. Coons are perfectly capable of doing it for the lulz.
1860287;1539197397;mircea_popescu;tru
1860288;1539197447;*;mircea_popescu doesn't share the coon hate, having never lived for long where they actually were pests.
1860289;1539197460;mircea_popescu;~everyone in mass/ct/nh/vermont etc fucking hated coons tho.
1860290;1539197473;asciilifeform;they're great when yer in a place where it's in zoo, like kangaroo.
1860291;1539197484;asciilifeform;not so hot when right there when you open front door.
1860292;1539197690;mircea_popescu;i believe.
1860293;1539197724;BingoBoingo;I suspect they only become mega pest in areas with coyote and deer deficiency
1860294;1539197749;mircea_popescu;i dunno, plenty of deer in the ne.
1860295;1539197805;BingoBoingo;When I left hometown they were pest, but not asciilifeform doomsday pest. More urban customers to my last fiat employment described asciilifeform type doomsday pest, but they also lacked coyotes
1860296;1539198208;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plenty of deer here. the 2 species dun compete for fodder at all, afaik
1860297;1539198284;BingoBoingo;Both raid trash. I suspect the coyote is bigger factor. Takes 40 lb scavenger/predator niche
1860298;1539198292;asciilifeform;i have yet to see a deer eat rubbish.
1860299;1539198300;asciilifeform;they'll eat grass, and yes garden
1860300;1539198304;asciilifeform;but dumpster ?!
1860301;1539198308;BingoBoingo;Have seen
1860302;1539198346;asciilifeform;deer imho aint comparable to a dog-sized rat with human hands, re lulz potential
1860303;1539198391;asciilifeform;as for coyote, naturally none in the city, lol, no wolf either
1860304;1539198398;mircea_popescu;depends. one day walking through forest saw doe chased by "barking" buck, tied up companion naked, arms bound behind back and hoisted over branch, then fucked her. great lulz were had!
1860305;1539198409;asciilifeform;lol
1860306;1539198492;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859947 >> btw, has there been any consideration of publishing a signed tar ball of the first, say half million blocks. not to have them set in stone, but like 'at height 550000, these were the first 500k' for purpose of eat-block jumpstart for nodeless noobs, such as myself? Log search didn't reveal it to my eyes.
1860307;1539198492;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 01:24 asciilifeform: qatar >> https://archive.is/uy5I6 << nuffing but prb... perhaps Mocky will fix..
1860308;1539198510;asciilifeform;Mocky: various folx published signed hashes
1860309;1539198548;*;asciilifeform digs in l0gz..
1860310;1539198583;mircea_popescu;Mocky yes, actually. both as current "checkpoint" mechanism and otherwise. but you gotta also familiarize self with "fleet in being" concept, discussed in logs pluriously.
1860311;1539198589;mircea_popescu;key part of tmsr defense doctrine.
1860312;1539198622;asciilifeform;mod6, jurov : trb ml down ??
1860313;1539198710;asciilifeform;!#s blkcut
1860314;1539198711;a111;39 results for "blkcut", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=blkcut
1860315;1539198748;asciilifeform;!#s eatblock
1860316;1539198748;a111;116 results for "eatblock", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=eatblock
1860317;1539198750;asciilifeform;^ see also
1860318;1539198806;Mocky;ahh, thx
1860319;1539198813;asciilifeform;Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-29#1180989 << found
1860320;1539198813;a111;Logged on 2015-06-29 04:51 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/readme_s.txt http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/sums.txt.gz http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/sums.txt.gz.sig
1860321;1539198815;asciilifeform;early attempt
1860322;1539198835;asciilifeform;see the readme re what's what.
1860323;1539198870;asciilifeform;observe that you can trivially replicate the thing.
1860324;1539198895;asciilifeform;( all you need is that little bash , and a reasonably recent trb )
1860325;1539198915;mod6;asciilifeform: seems up from here -- but yah, we've had problems with it lately.
1860326;1539199035;mircea_popescu;i see it.
1860327;1539199115;asciilifeform;Mocky: keep in mind that 'aggressive' trb syncs in (pessimistically) 2-3 weeks. so not much point in throwing around whole balls of blox.
1860328;1539199125;asciilifeform;but to hash'em -- useful.
1860329;1539199166;asciilifeform;i've thought in the past to have aluminum ( see l0gz re why ) cd's pressed with some qty of blocks
1860330;1539199178;asciilifeform;but it'd be quite bulky, physically, and expensive.
1860331;1539199253;asciilifeform;!#s blocks antifuse
1860332;1539199254;a111;5 results for "blocks antifuse", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=blocks%20antifuse
1860333;1539199256;asciilifeform;^ see also threads.
1860334;1539199270;Mocky;oh, i didn't realize it was that much better with aggression. my prior, discouraged attempt was without aggression and looking to be substantially slower than 3 weeks
1860335;1539199431;mircea_popescu;of course now we have keccak ready also...
1860336;1539199434;mircea_popescu;which,
1860337;1539199440;mircea_popescu;!#s "acordionize"
1860338;1539199441;a111;0 results for "\"acordionize\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22acordionize%22
1860339;1539199445;mircea_popescu;mgh...
1860340;1539200420;Mocky;mircea_popescu, the significance of keccak here is to have a better hash of same?
1860341;1539200449;mircea_popescu;for the job here discussed, keccak stands with "other hash" like car stands with kitchen robot.
1860342;1539200467;mircea_popescu;in the immortal words of kramer, "i tried to make gravel and... it... it just didn't work"
1860343;1539200554;mircea_popescu;in cvasi-related lulz,  https://youtube.com/watch?v=qvTg2OJfrfg
1860344;1539200564;Mocky;i got lost on kitchen robot, non existing item?
1860345;1539200574;mircea_popescu;La fille de joie est belle au coin de la rue là-bas. Elle a une clientèle qui lui remplit son bas... /me sings
1860346;1539200595;mircea_popescu;Mocky it's a riff on how they use tiny mouthfuls at time. car just goes.
1860347;1539202075;asciilifeform;Mocky: 'kitchen robot' is euro for usa's 'phood processor'
1860348;1539202106;Mocky;ooohhh, i get it
1860349;1539202137;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: keccak is exactly the right pill for trbi, and iirc mircea_popescu was actually 1st to point this out, yrs ago
1860350;1539202173;asciilifeform;but yes also oughta be put into service in all proggies where we previously had sha
1860351;1539202182;asciilifeform;incl. the block archiver
1860352;1539202208;asciilifeform;( simply swap the 'sha512sum' in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/readme_s.txt for phf's standalone keccaktron )
1860353;1539202658;asciilifeform;Mocky: 'aggressive' trb vs regular, is just about 'night and day'. i also have ben_vulpes's 'super aggression' item lined up for test.
1860354;1539202691;asciilifeform;it closes the remaining gap ( in his variant, long-connected but non-block-delivering peers get hassled for blox proactively )
1860355;1539203095;mircea_popescu;problem with sha is that it has no niche besides "fuck you, i'm lazy", and even there... md5.
1860356;1539203124;mircea_popescu;but otherwise, in crc applications crc32 much better, as alf pointed out ; and in what-is-being-hashed-is-long applications, keccak npq.
1860357;1539203141;mircea_popescu;i can't think of what else is a hash used for.
1860358;1539203166;mircea_popescu;certainly i'd rather use keccak than ~anything else for the "make crypto out of trapdoor" style alf thing for example
1860359;1539204621;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: keccak even worx as a stream cipher, and afaik no better or worse than other extant examples.
1860360;1539204631;mircea_popescu; right.
1860361;1539204640;mircea_popescu;well, minigame using serpent, but anyways.
1860362;1539204676;asciilifeform;( stream ciphers are a 'religious' topic , imho )
1860363;1539204715;asciilifeform;the 1 plus of keccak-abuse is that you can make the key whatever size you want. but that's more or less it.
1860364;1539204763;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760718 << 1 thread. )
1860365;1539204763;a111;Logged on 2017-12-29 15:55 asciilifeform: but to return upstack , if one could design a satisfactory ( somehow! ) hash , it would thereby also necessarily be a satisfactory symm cipher.
1860366;1539204798;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621201 << the orig, iirc, thrd, re subj.
1860367;1539204798;a111;Logged on 2017-03-02 18:10 asciilifeform: a 'secure prng' is fundamentally THE SAME animal as the 'secure hash' and the 'secure blockcipher'.
1860368;1539205725;asciilifeform;!!up bvt
1860369;1539205726;deedbot;bvt voiced for 30 minutes.
1860370;1539205749;bvt;!!register http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DPctA/?raw=true
1860371;1539205752;deedbot;6CF3EFF892A7F23E7E798E5EBA6B8C054B962B68 registered as bvt.
1860372;1539205792;bvt;Hello, I am BT from the recent diana_coman's comments section
1860373;1539205827;bvt;I have a bug report for vpatch from phf
1860374;1539205827;asciilifeform;bvt: possibly fastest n00b-birth-to-key-regged to date
1860375;1539205867;asciilifeform;bvt: ideally you'd put it on your www, where we'll read
1860376;1539205876;asciilifeform;but p.bvulpes.com will work in a pinch
1860377;1539205931;bvt;Sorry, don't have a WWW, but the fix should be a one-liner
1860378;1539205958;asciilifeform;bvt: since you're already playing with a vtron, i suspect you know what the correct process is re patch
1860379;1539205984;asciilifeform;( and yes even 1liner )
1860380;1539205996;bvt;sure, but I guess you are interested in explanation as well?
1860381;1539206008;asciilifeform;definitely
1860382;1539206056;bvt;basically, template variable here: http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_vpatch#L285 is too short.
1860383;1539206081;bvt;musl wants 6 template chars: http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/temp/mktemp.c#n13
1860384;1539206122;asciilifeform;bvt: didja get the orig to actually fail ?
1860385;1539206138;asciilifeform;or is this a theoretical boojum
1860386;1539206143;bvt;empty string ("") is special-cased in GNAT runtime, which does mktemp equivalent internally
1860387;1539206169;bvt;but also sets a Temp bit in File record
1860388;1539206215;asciilifeform;bvt: plz answer the given q tho
1860389;1539206228;asciilifeform;does it bomb, yay or nay
1860390;1539206237;bvt;sorry, slow typer
1860391;1539206263;bvt;GNAT 2016 runtime deletes all files with temp bits at the Finalization stage, so everything should work fine. (Not an ada specialist, so when finalization is actually run is a mistery to me)
1860392;1539206287;asciilifeform;per the standard it fires when object goes out of scope
1860393;1539206295;bvt;GNAT 2017, though, deletes such files on Close call.
1860394;1539206314;asciilifeform;interesting. so will bomb on gnat-2017 ?
1860395;1539206356;asciilifeform;iirc ave1's current draft of libc-less gnat is based on 17. but afaik nobody's tried the thing on it yet ( with possible exception of bvt )
1860396;1539206365;bvt;Which explodes at http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_vpatch#L789, after close at http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_vpatch#L778
1860397;1539206381;asciilifeform;!!rate bvt 1 n00b, ada/vtronics experiments
1860398;1539206384;bvt;Nope, ave1's is 2016
1860399;1539206384;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IAwP5/?raw=true
1860400;1539206412;asciilifeform;!!v CFBC2A3D9F8D4A245A20F4276C0977CDA42A7D2D123E1E5C23FEE8028C6EB63A
1860401;1539206412;deedbot;asciilifeform rated bvt 1 << n00b, ada/vtronics experiments
1860402;1539206429;asciilifeform;bvt: i assume you already know how to self-voice; if not, deedbot.org/help.html
1860403;1539206430;bvt;thanks
1860404;1539206466;bvt;well, I was reading logs for a really long time
1860405;1539206477;asciilifeform;bvt: tell us a bit about yerself
1860406;1539206577;bvt;I can't say I'm doing anything interesting in everyday life (PhDing in CS)
1860407;1539206616;bvt;I live in germany, ukr by origin
1860408;1539206618;asciilifeform;bvt: if it aint a seekrit, what sub-subject in particular ?
1860409;1539206666;*;asciilifeform so happens also an ukr, at least by modern day map
1860410;1539206724;bvt;"security", so in the end in boils down to handwaving problems away with TLS (aka pseudosecurity)
1860411;1539206859;asciilifeform;hey, asciilifeform does a similarly loathesome, and at times ~identical, thing, for money in the saeculum. for so long as you approach it the way kepler approached his work as horoscope-maker, it's livable
1860412;1539206907;mircea_popescu;o hey!
1860413;1539206907;asciilifeform;tho i wonder -- in principle academics get to pick their subject. so how'd you end up with ~that~ ?
1860414;1539206935;bvt;Hello mircea_popescu!
1860415;1539206941;mircea_popescu;hola
1860416;1539207038;bvt;I was too naive when I entered academia. Hoped for honest investigation of technology, but everyone there seems to be ok with building on broken stuff.
1860417;1539207060;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860394 << even if it doesn't actually bomb, he has a point.
1860418;1539207060;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 21:18 asciilifeform: interesting. so will bomb on gnat-2017 ?
1860419;1539207071;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: yes, he does
1860420;1539207083;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was curious how he found, is all.
1860421;1539207090;mircea_popescu;possibly -- read.
1860422;1539207101;asciilifeform;entirely possib
1860423;1539207107;bvt;I was man-aloning for quite some time
1860424;1539207112;mircea_popescu;ha.
1860425;1539207126;mircea_popescu;well, they say the path to sanity comes with finding out there's a word for insanity
1860426;1539207166;bvt;Reapplied ave1's patches over gnat17, and musl-cross-make (https://github.com/richfelker/musl-cross-make/)
1860427;1539207203;mircea_popescu;(this is not even so trivial a point -- generally insanity is perceived as so very personal by the insane.
1860428;1539207248;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in more general considerations, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860386 << why the fuck are they doing the satoshi * thing!
1860429;1539207248;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 21:15 bvt: empty string ("") is special-cased in GNAT runtime, which does mktemp equivalent internally
1860430;1539207274;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu:   man 3 mktemp
1860431;1539207283;asciilifeform;( yes, they are. but posix, rather than gnat per se )
1860432;1539207309;asciilifeform;'The mktemp() function generates a unique temporary filename from template.  The last six  characters of  template  must  be  XXXXXX  and these are replaced with a string that...' etc
1860433;1539207319;mircea_popescu;item removed in 2008.
1860434;1539207322;asciilifeform;tho interestingly also
1860435;1539207323;asciilifeform;aaha!
1860436;1539207326;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu inb4.
1860437;1539207338;mircea_popescu;introduced in 2001. would explain why yt blisfully unaware.
1860438;1539207343;asciilifeform;( removed in favour of ~what~ , i do not presently know )
1860439;1539207351;mircea_popescu;well... maybe 12 characters.
1860440;1539207355;asciilifeform;lol
1860441;1539207376;mircea_popescu;since we're doing this... "BUGS
1860442;1539207376;mircea_popescu;       Never  use  mktemp().   Some  implementations follow 4.3BSD and replace
1860443;1539207376;mircea_popescu;       XXXXXX by the current process ID and a single letter, so that  at  most
1860444;1539207376;mircea_popescu;       26  different  names  can be returned.  Since on the one hand the names
1860445;1539207376;mircea_popescu;       are easy to guess, and on the other hand there is a race between  test‐
1860446;1539207377;mircea_popescu;       ing whether the name exists and opening the file, every use of mktemp()
1860447;1539207378;mircea_popescu;       is a security risk.  The race is avoided by mkstemp(3)."
1860448;1539207410;mircea_popescu;let me guess, this is like, the golden age of f&o&linus source ?
1860449;1539207416;asciilifeform;oh gets better, watch :
1860450;1539207451;asciilifeform;mkstemp : 'In glibc versions 2.06 and earlier, the file is created with permissions 0666,  that  is,  read  and write  for all users.  This old behavior may be a security risk... ...More  generally, the POSIX specification of mkstemp() does not say anything about file modes...'
1860451;1539207474;mircea_popescu;why are we importing this turdology again ?
1860452;1539207505;asciilifeform;nobody's baked a proper one yet. tho i can't presently see why it'd be difficult
1860453;1539207524;phf;posix mandates 6 x's, glibc 3 or more, etc. thanks bvt for catching it, though it seems like a solution is to roll own
1860454;1539207538;asciilifeform;bvt: try voicing yourself ( pm deedbot, see the linked help )
1860455;1539207576;mircea_popescu;phf why do you even use it at all ? i mean... hash the time with a salt, that's your filename. no good ?
1860456;1539207625;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: potential headache with processes running on parallel cpu
1860457;1539207631;mircea_popescu;why ?
1860458;1539207641;asciilifeform;2 get same time turd, then collide, neh
1860459;1539207660;mircea_popescu;mtime ever returns the same value ?
1860460;1539207664;phf;well, you still have to stat the filesystem to make sure you're not clobbering
1860461;1539207690;mircea_popescu;fine, hash(mtime + urand bit + salt)
1860462;1539207710;mircea_popescu;"bit" as in "little bit" colloquial.
1860463;1539207718;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not that i see it as particularly likely, but afaik cannot be guaranteed not to, at least not w/out using inline asm, e.g. RDTSC on x86
1860464;1539207744;mircea_popescu;neither "add some entropy" nor "inline asm" strike me as bad solutions.
1860465;1539207767;asciilifeform;iirc we actually had this thread, and asciilifeform concluded 'just get 256bits from FG, and you're golden'
1860466;1539207773;asciilifeform;!#s gensym
1860467;1539207773;a111;26 results for "gensym", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gensym
1860468;1539207774;mircea_popescu;though i've never seen this thing where parallel execution gets same clock value. i half suspect it's hardware fucked to not.
1860469;1539207779;phf;asciilifeform: to be fair musl's version is naive, it generates/stats in a loop until there's no collision, but theoretically you can still get a race condition. glibc i believe does all kinds of smart tricks to ensure that doesn't happen, but it's all magic
1860470;1539207785;bvt;iirc mkdir does atomic 'create or error-out'
1860471;1539207806;mircea_popescu;bvt unless "new" posix, that's what it is yes.
1860472;1539207806;asciilifeform;bvt: thing is, there is 0 reason for this operation to ever eggog
1860473;1539207815;asciilifeform;unless disk , i suppose, is full
1860474;1539207816;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform many reasons. full media.
1860475;1539207837;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: right. but otherwise ~must~ succeed
1860476;1539207850;mircea_popescu;full the other way (all possible names present)
1860477;1539207871;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: compute, for a laugh, the size of the disk where this can take place
1860478;1539207880;mircea_popescu;were we discussing must or might ?
1860479;1539207890;asciilifeform;( it won't fit in galaxy )
1860480;1539207902;mircea_popescu;unless there's further constraints, such as "all random numbers are 4"
1860481;1539207914;asciilifeform;lol or unless wings fall off...
1860482;1539207925;asciilifeform;rng is 'jesus bolt'
1860483;1539207961;mircea_popescu;yes well ?
1860484;1539207970;asciilifeform;( if rng is sad, absolutely anyffing can happen, and imho this oughta be understood by errybody )
1860485;1539207982;mircea_popescu;not what we were talking about! still error condition.
1860486;1539207996;asciilifeform;oughta be a machine-halting eggog imho.
1860487;1539207999;asciilifeform;'evacuate nao'
1860488;1539208022;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860406 << god almighty.
1860489;1539208022;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 21:22 bvt: I can't say I'm doing anything interesting in everyday life (PhDing in CS)
1860490;1539208093;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is an amusing symmetry, republican machine that halts if it can't touch entropy like imperial machine that halts if it can't phone nsa hq.
1860491;1539208122;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho it's the honest thing to do. red lamp, 'grab yer parachutes nao!!', claxons.
1860492;1539208132;asciilifeform;halon valve opens.
1860493;1539208139;mircea_popescu;you're such a drama queen.
1860494;1539208142;mircea_popescu;anyone told you before ?
1860495;1539208155;asciilifeform;lol
1860496;1539208198;asciilifeform;i'd be pretty interested to see FG spontaneously fail, what with the 4x redundant iron.
1860497;1539208221;asciilifeform;( and not as if it had no 'jesus bolt', it is sadly unknown to me how to make entirely without one )
1860498;1539208229;mircea_popescu;this'd make a great sf-ish story : archeologist in far future uncovers remains of lost intergalactic civilisation,
1860499;1539208240;mircea_popescu;and manages to figure out how to use ONE artefact
1860500;1539208242;mircea_popescu;and it's a fg
1860501;1539208245;mircea_popescu;and it... fails.
1860502;1539208250;mircea_popescu;FOR THE FIRST TIME IN ITS HISTORY
1860503;1539208264;asciilifeform;well the current crop aint rated to last >25yrs, not without rewriting the eeprom anyway
1860504;1539208278;asciilifeform;but let the archaeologist find the fyootoor maskrom'd one.
1860505;1539208285;mircea_popescu;"my phd in ancient history is -- the reason X civilisation died. turns out, physics subtly cvhanged, rendering environment uninhabitable for them"
1860506;1539208326;asciilifeform;eh imho that's a 'dog bites man'. i'm moar into 'man bites dog', i.e. ~habitable~ 'small' changes-in-physics...
1860507;1539208353;asciilifeform;( habitable-yet-measurable at any rate )
1860508;1539208357;mircea_popescu;yes well... great sf is always large scale dog bites man, imo.
1860509;1539208375;asciilifeform;possib
1860510;1539208377;mircea_popescu;scale so large, the dog sneaks up on you.
1860511;1539208386;mircea_popescu;but maybe im too kafkian.
1860512;1539208440;*;asciilifeform scratches carapace thoughtfully
1860513;1539208469;mircea_popescu;i suppose the dog&man permutation duality translates escape-or-enslave dilemma.
1860514;1539208498;mircea_popescu;you know, boat crashes on amazon island. some of the sailors -- excited to be rescued. some others -- burned down rescuer ships.
1860515;1539208520;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw recall that we have red lamp already ( iirc i suggested claxon too, back in the design days, but mircea_popescu said enuff-is-enuff )
1860516;1539208540;mircea_popescu;imagine if fg had to come with semi tractor trailer.
1860517;1539208560;asciilifeform;betcha it would, if usg.cisco.crapple had built it..
1860518;1539208565;mircea_popescu;anyway, point being -- lamp's enough, don't have to turn off the chap's computor.
1860519;1539208607;asciilifeform;if i ever find that mine stopped, whole thing is going to dissection table, fg, comp, power supplies, etc
1860520;1539208647;mircea_popescu;yes well.
1860521;1539209049;asciilifeform;btw folx read '>25 yrs' and laugh, but i have 30+y.o. iron on my desk even nao, working.
1860522;1539209068;asciilifeform;( presently, the 'model f' thing, in the past, others )
1860523;1539209071;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
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1860537;1539210240;trinque;!!v 718A413A6D30769279FDD6E1E65BFE3392ECC65AC8822C93A64ECECEB3A7D2AC
1860538;1539210243;deedbot;trinque paid BingoBoingo invoice 2
1860539;1539210253;BingoBoingo;ty trinque
1860540;1539210257;trinque;my pleasure.
1860541;1539210797;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in trilema roulette, http://trilema.com/2015/the-problem-of-the-state/
1860542;1539211274;BingoBoingo;!!invoice lobbes 0.04219973 Rockchip and Shared hosting Through January 2019
1860543;1539211280;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BYS5P/?raw=true
1860544;1539211283;lobbes;!!balance
1860545;1539211287;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dq1uH/?raw=true
1860546;1539211322;BingoBoingo;!!v E1F15C6CBF3671BD0ADA717149D4F4C7FCBF4B7AC17C0AC8CA3014316D6B2410
1860547;1539211325;deedbot;Invoiced lobbes 0.04219973 << Rockchip and Shared hosting Through January 2019
1860548;1539211480;lobbes;!!deposit 0.2
1860549;1539211485;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/acMgB/?raw=true
1860550;1539211733;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/intel-cpu-shortage-for-most-distribution-channels-as-production-focuses-on-high-performance-segments/ << Qntra - Intel CPU Shortage For Most Distribution Channels As Production Focuses On "High Performance Segments"
1860551;1539213826;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in very olds : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1887 << updated
1860552;1539213858;mircea_popescu;end of intel ?
1860553;1539213866;asciilifeform;lol if only
1860554;1539213891;asciilifeform;( update unrelated, simply doing some www housekeeping )
1860555;1539213912;mircea_popescu;aha. 1 btc not bad,
1860556;1539213948;asciilifeform;i dun expect any takers, but in the interest of lightening the collection / potentially feeding teh hungry...
1860557;1539213994;asciilifeform;it's a niche item, like synchrophasotron.
1860558;1539214012;asciilifeform;and vendor evaporated without leaving any replacement. so there.
1860559;1539214030;mircea_popescu;aha.
1860560;1539218724;billymg;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 1
1860561;1539218733;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/L3rCb/?raw=true
1860562;1539218763;billymg;!!v D037DDE8200E4ED94146C7BE4719BA628EFED5779B4CC4E4ED7A3F693B1DE3C0
1860563;1539218767;deedbot;billymg paid BingoBoingo invoice 1
1860564;1539218778;asciilifeform;billymg: i'ma get your box set up nao.
1860565;1539218872;asciilifeform;!!key billymg
1860566;1539218873;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/F5E9580D424CB952E67CBF6F2BBEFC527DC1FE40.asc
1860567;1539219020;asciilifeform;billymg: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/skISr/?raw=true and plz confirm when tested.
1860568;1539219031;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo, mod6 : i put him in 'A' .
1860569;1539219038;billymg;awesome, thank you!
1860570;1539219041;mod6;my personal node corrupted again.  I'll be pulling it off the list of nodes until it's rebuilt... takes about 10 days with eatblock.
1860571;1539219043;asciilifeform;billymg: enjoy
1860572;1539219050;mod6;asciilifeform: thank you!
1860573;1539219055;BingoBoingo;billymg: thank you
1860574;1539219058;mod6;billymg: just holler if you have any q's.
1860575;1539219064;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Will note that
1860576;1539219066;asciilifeform;mod6: ty for the notice
1860577;1539219116;mod6;I will be looking for a new place to host after my contract is up in november.
1860578;1539219270;asciilifeform;billymg: various notes re uses for rk , for your enjoyment -- http://thewhet.net/2018/08/hanbots-znc-bouncer-notes/ , http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/06/mein-kompendium-mp-wp/ , http://blog.esthlos.com/mp-wp-setup/
1860579;1539219371;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1860580;1539220993;mircea_popescu;funny how rereads work! so back in 2013, i think all http://trilema.com/2013/the-doctrine-of-total-depravity/ is "religion is bs". but today -- all it really says is that protestantism has fuckall to do with any kind of abstract faith. it was attempt to organize takeover from day one and naught else. the only protestant faith really is a sort of half-republic, "this is the instrumentality of taking over". nobody among their r
1860581;1539220994;mircea_popescu;anks ever bothered to think through the http://trilema.com/2018/cu-cartile-pe-masa-un-fleac-l-au-ciuruit/#selection-231.3-239.4 "stump for the sitting" problem, it's true, but anyways.
1860582;1539222569;mircea_popescu;"APOLOGIA PRO NOMINE MEO. Out of consideration (in part) to such readers as may read this book I have assumed a name by which they may refer to me (if ever he or she may wish to do so kindly) in the same manner at least twice running--a feat of pronunciation which few of my English acquaintances have performed with my natal name. But there is also another reason, considerate of the author. I have been told that there are writ
1860583;1539222569;mircea_popescu;ers whose works would have been famous if only their names could have been familiarly pronounced--Polish and Russian writers for the most part, I gather.
1860584;1539222569;mircea_popescu;Since I had already taken every other precaution but this to deserve their more fortunate fate, in changing my name I have, I hope, robbed my readers of their last excuse for my obscurity."
1860585;1539222577;mircea_popescu;the punch line, being, i suppose -- guess the fellow's name.
1860586;1539223244;billymg;asciilifeform: everything seems in order with the new box
1860587;1539223300;asciilifeform;billymg: ty for confirming. and dun hesitate to ask if you have q, here or in #p
1860588;1539223386;billymg;i seem to have lost voice in #p again (perhaps from bouncer disconnect -- which will be moving to the new box as soon as i have time to setup)
1860589;1539223403;billymg;can i self-voice in #pizarro?
1860590;1539223462;asciilifeform;mod6: is there a simple way to perma-voice folx in #p ?
1860591;1539223510;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform is way to add ppl to an autovoice list, +V or something, see teh freenode dox
1860592;1539223522;asciilifeform;will rtfm then
1860593;1539223562;mircea_popescu;fwiw, the spamlulz ceased coupla days ago, #eulora prevails.
1860594;1539223597;asciilifeform;oh hey
1860595;1539224234;mircea_popescu;"Once (in those far-off peaceful days when men still had enough grammatical sense to know that the word "pacifist" does not exist, but that the less convenient "pacificist" does) " << lulz.
1860596;1539224273;mircea_popescu;it's funny how the neologisms of pantsuit are all "created last sunday", so to speak. "egotism" ? "altruism" ? meaningless drivel from the pap mills.
1860597;1539224447;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in "female interest" webtardation : "Areas of Interest Select all that apply. Vaginal Steaming Womb, Wine & Wellness Night Broth Lessons (individual or group) BROTHrive Membership".
1860598;1539228669;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860578 < thanks for these. might be handy for new customers to include these links (and the links shared here http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-10-11#440371) on an info page somewhere on http://pizarroisp.net
1860599;1539228669;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 00:54 asciilifeform: billymg: various notes re uses for rk , for your enjoyment -- http://thewhet.net/2018/08/hanbots-znc-bouncer-notes/ , http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/06/mein-kompendium-mp-wp/ , http://blog.esthlos.com/mp-wp-setup/
1860600;1539228730;billymg;under some kind of "sample guides, no warranty" header
1860601;1539241318;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860111 >> I don't have anything for you currently
1860602;1539241318;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 16:29 billymg: mircea_popescu: thank you. Mocky: let me know if you need help with anything
1860603;1539265390;Mocky;http://mocky.org/Qatar-Day-Zero/
1860604;1539265603;diana_coman;nice pics Mocky !
1860605;1539265617;Mocky;thx
1860606;1539265642;diana_coman;was it the time of day/light that made that "my view" picture so sandy-looking?
1860607;1539265661;diana_coman;it does look as if it's from some old picture book, lol
1860608;1539265800;Mocky;yeah I think that was some late morning glare
1860609;1539265876;diana_coman;how's talking to locals going?
1860610;1539266303;asciilifeform;!Q later tell mircea_popescu 1-833-867-7282 ( "1-833-TMSRBTC" ) ready, if vendor to be believed; ( not tested yet ) . worx in usa strictly, like all 8xx .
1860611;1539266303;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1860612;1539266493;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'ma gpg you the login to the stats page later today
1860613;1539266529;asciilifeform;Mocky: neato
1860614;1539267174;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what could i possibly want with it ?
1860615;1539267175;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: Sent 14 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> 1-833-867-7282 ( 1-833-TMSRBTC ) ready, if vendor to be believed; ( not tested yet ) . worx in usa strictly, like all 8xx .
1860616;1539267202;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it has stats, and, theoretically, shits out wav's when records call
1860617;1539267229;mircea_popescu;send it to bimbo, she can publish them then ?
1860618;1539267241;mircea_popescu;or is this even something tbf wants ?
1860619;1539267265;asciilifeform;lessee what mod6 says
1860620;1539267313;asciilifeform;hrm, apparently the 'record' pheature is a '30 day trial', aol-style, and after that is +7orcbux/mo. i'ma switch it off unless somebody reeally wants it
1860621;1539267475;asciilifeform;i dun really see a massive win from it, tbh
1860622;1539267508;asciilifeform;( would rather read summary )
1860623;1539267530;Mocky;diana_coman, i've got to find some that speak arabic. so far Indians, Nigerians, Nepalese and Asians all speaking english
1860624;1539267536;mircea_popescu;heh
1860625;1539267617;Mocky;i can see why so few foreigners learn the language, everything is in both english and arabic, signage, food labels, store receipts, even the money
1860626;1539267620;diana_coman;ahaha, so I should have introduced you to some lebanese/kuweitis here, at least they speak arabic!
1860627;1539267702;asciilifeform;Mocky: they escaped from brits , iirc, in '70s. so possibly is why
1860628;1539267725;mircea_popescu;omg a guard booth was empty!
1860629;1539267733;mircea_popescu;britain going to shit! o wait...
1860630;1539267745;Mocky;lol
1860631;1539267765;mircea_popescu;ahahaha check him out, dude's got srs biker gear on and shit.
1860632;1539267783;mircea_popescu;they'd better not fuck with him, these nigerio-nepalese azns. IF they know what's good for 'em.
1860633;1539267825;mircea_popescu;http://mocky.org/img/thing1-600.jpg << haymasfuturo!! oooohohohoho epic find.
1860634;1539267833;mircea_popescu;what fucking future ?! for what, england ? jesus x.
1860635;1539267879;Mocky;the side of that thing has the names of other countries on it...
1860636;1539267892;mircea_popescu;aok
1860637;1539267920;mircea_popescu;notably absent, the only countries with any actual future. because who'd have told these tards about 'em.
1860638;1539267943;mircea_popescu;"It was surreal having such a minimal and distant experience of so many places I’ve only heard about before." << ahaha pretty great line.
1860639;1539267944;Mocky;if you look at zoomed in version, nepal, africa, caribbean, so not countries really
1860640;1539268013;mircea_popescu;A350 must be wider than 777 << it is. metric.
1860641;1539268103;mircea_popescu;nice article!
1860642;1539268114;Mocky;thx
1860643;1539268170;mircea_popescu;so it turns out one of the greatest impediments wasn't so impending after all, huh.
1860644;1539268174;mircea_popescu;funny how this shit works.
1860645;1539268259;Mocky;indeed
1860646;1539271215;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860625 << lol, it would hurt the Uruguayos so much to learn somewhere else actually pulled off the multilingual thing
1860647;1539271215;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 14:20 Mocky: i can see why so few foreigners learn the language, everything is in both english and arabic, signage, food labels, store receipts, even the money
1860648;1539271261;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i dun recall seeing any multi-anythings in uy ( and i kinda liked it that way )
1860649;1539271298;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, Uruguay does the thing where they put English words on everything instead of their own language.
1860650;1539271325;BingoBoingo;Hence the Montevideo shopping, the Kiosko CyberInterweb, and the late Pitty Shoes
1860651;1539271336;asciilifeform;aah those
1860652;1539271352;asciilifeform;i think of'em as 'engrish' (asian term, but applicable)
1860653;1539271388;asciilifeform;and hahwat, pitty shoes dead ?!
1860654;1539271392;asciilifeform;what a... pitty
1860655;1539271424;BingoBoingo;Then there's the all English menu at the Burger King, which is a mindfuck because it can't be used without substituting spanish vowels for the English oness
1860656;1539271434;BingoBoingo;Yes, Pitty Shoes is very dead
1860657;1539271602;BingoBoingo;Whole bunch of new shoes in old storefronts along Avenida General Rivera now selling abnormally cheap plasticrap advertising "Calidad Brasilera" too
1860658;1539271634;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the only decent shoes asciilifeform owned in entire life... bought in ro
1860659;1539271659;BingoBoingo;But are they suitable for use in Pits?
1860660;1539271691;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: tested in many a pit.
1860661;1539271790;*;BingoBoingo is very disappointed that there is a botique named Prussia a few doors down from my building that sells women's clothing when it should be selling men's protective headgear
1860662;1539271804;asciilifeform;lol!!
1860663;1539271848;mircea_popescu;lmao
1860664;1539271860;BingoBoingo;The store recently had to get it's glass front replaced after smashing. I assume robbery attempt? Never seen customers in the store though.
1860665;1539272034;BingoBoingo;Then there's all the pop culture kioski names: Kiosko Buffalo Bill, Kiosko Chicago Bulls, Kiosko Tommy...
1860666;1539272101;asciilifeform;miamiism maculae imho
1860667;1539272262;BingoBoingo;Then there's the grow shops of which "Tu Cultivo" is the only one I can recall off hand that doesn't have Grow in the name.
1860668;1539272297;BingoBoingo;SoulMedicine Grow, Juana Grow, Dr. Grow, the list goes on Gro
1860669;1539273346;Mocky;with >80% foreigners all speaking english, the Qataris fear becoming ESL. signage is dual language because Arabic is mandated. in 2012 they passed a law mandating universities switch from english to arabic for all degree for all degree programs other than sci/eng/med. in 2016 further law mandating arabic for gov agencies, contracts, schools
1860670;1539273417;BingoBoingo;Fighting the good fight against Miami!
1860671;1539273753;Mocky;unrelatedly, i saw the craziest thing leaving the air port. there are a lot of indian dudes around doing public works type labor jobs. landscaping, pickup up trash, construction etc. I saw one, and i swear he was mowing the grass with a chain saw, all squatted down. now maybe he was cutting something else, but there was nothing else there! and damn if the that lawn wasn't pristine as a golf course
1860672;1539273850;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/another-round-of-router-pwning-holes-found-in-mikrotic-routeros/ << Qntra - Another Round Of Router Pwning Holes Found In Mikrotic RouterOS
1860673;1539273868;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Now that, they do not do here.
1860674;1539275390;mircea_popescu;Mocky thjey do that dumb shit here too
1860675;1539275396;mircea_popescu;fucktarded barbarians.
1860676;1539275735;BingoBoingo;Here they do entire parks using string trimmers
1860677;1539277695;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf i recently found that lcd panel made by (defunkt) 'pixelqi co', pq3qi-01 , is still sold by chinese ( i have nfi if clones, or old stock ), ~100 $ ea; the thing toggles from 1024x600 colour/backlit into a 3072x600 greyscale reflector thing, worx with various lappies ( sadly not x60, it's a 16:9 )
1860678;1539277695;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1860679;1539277734;asciilifeform;draws 400mW in reflector mode (~1/5 of what colour panel of that weight class eats) .
1860680;1539277836;asciilifeform;pretty clever, imho : they had some electrochemical mechanism for turning the colour filters on subpixels into transparent.
1860681;1539277922;asciilifeform;also somewhat unusually, there's a full datashit for the thing ( i.e. could drive with fpga; and there's a chinese hdmi/dvi board for it, ~20bux )
1860682;1539278080;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/gvC8D << old photo of subj, from before vendor croaked. ( comparison with 'eink' on right hand )
1860683;1539278132;asciilifeform;oh hm, loox like we had thread coupla yrs back, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-15#1503495
1860684;1539278132;a111;Logged on 2016-07-15 21:01 trinque: I researched those this week; pixel qi sold to an outfit that seems to be sitting on the patents
1860685;1539278179;asciilifeform;trinque seems like they're sold by the crate nao, on lulzbay & elsewhere.
1860686;1539278239;asciilifeform;nao if only somebody still made a b&w panel with reasonable res...
1860687;1539280758;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell mats http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NaRtE/?raw=true
1860688;1539280759;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1860689;1539281307;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=48 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/08/2018
1860690;1539282712;BingoBoingo;And Local news gets interesting https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/presidente-del-centro-militar-dice-que-hay-condiciones-para-que-militares-vuelvan-al-poder-20181011135944
1860691;1539283993;bvt;hello
1860692;1539284000;bvt;decided to add some information to the yesterday's thread on mktemp use in vpatch:
1860693;1539284020;bvt;1. The vpatch which solved the problem for me: vtools_fixes_mktemp_template.vpatch: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3xcAF/?raw=true
1860694;1539284027;bvt;vtools_fixes_mktemp_template.vpatch.bvt.sig http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/A5VIC/?raw=true
1860695;1539284038;bvt;2. Ada internally uses mkstemp(3) to generate a random name when empty string is passed as filename to Open procedure.
1860696;1539284045;bvt;The code in question is in gcc/ada/adaint.c in function __gnat_tmp_name (char *tmp_filename), http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cxakJ/?raw=true
1860697;1539284067;bvt;There seems to be no useful code to take from GNAT for this problem.
1860698;1539284079;bvt;3. Musl calculates a simple hash over current time, address of variable on stack, and address of template to generate the random characters for mk*temp family of functions: http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/temp/__randname.c#n6
1860699;1539284086;bvt;Apparently those addresses are used as 'poor man's RNG'
1860700;1539284196;phf;bvt: i think the conclusion of yesterday's thread was that using mktemp is a bad idea, and that it's better to rewrite temp_file_name to be self contained, i.e. get rid of mktemp pragma and have temp_file_name do its own random string/stat loop
1860701;1539284196;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 1 hour and 48 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i recently found that lcd panel made by (defunkt) 'pixelqi co', pq3qi-01 , is still sold by chinese ( i have nfi if clones, or old stock ), ~100 $ ea; the thing toggles from 1024x600 colour/backlit into a 3072x600 greyscale reflector thing, worx with various lappies ( sadly not x60, it's a 16:9 )
1860702;1539284313;bvt;I understand this, but still it's better to drop the vpatch, at least in the logs, in case someone else stumbles upon this problem.
1860703;1539284339;phf;i like that ada will create a temp file for you and then clean it up on empty string, though that's a bit too magical (the interface, not the behavior)
1860704;1539284412;bvt;that was a wtf moment for me, i'm not used to such service from the runtime
1860705;1539284584;phf;well, it's also a reason why bug wasn't caught in development. a sequence of wtfs: linux man page says mktemp should be 3 or more X's, so project builds on a non-musl build. meanwhile POSIX mandates there to be exactly 6 X's, so a musl build fails to produce a random string, returning instead a blank one, which is when gnat decides to not only generate a temp file but also do cleanup.
1860706;1539284795;bvt;did you use ave1's gnat or the adacore-provided distro? My understanding is that it should work with both, taking 2 different code paths, and fail only with gnat17.
1860707;1539284991;phf;i've used a variety, including the two you mentioned. ave1's, adacore 2016 and 2018 on linux and mac
1860708;1539285254;phf;bvt: you know you could take a stab at proper temp_file_name :> it'll have to be written anyway, to fix this bug. i suspect by the time someone else runs into this issue, a replacement will already be available.
1860709;1539285779;bvt;i will give it a try. i'm still learning ada, will have to take a look at how strings and interfacing with C are done properly.
1860710;1539286465;asciilifeform;phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S   2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak)   3) stat(S') ; if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat .
1860711;1539286471;phf;bvt: this doesn't need much C, it's a loop with a termination condition of not Ada.Directories.Exists(Filename), and the tricky part is the construction of said Filename. it could be a Prefix ("vpatch.") + keccak hash(salt + pid + time + ???).
1860712;1539286569;phf;asciilifeform: nah, you want a random seed always, because you're trying to avoid race by producing a least likely collision. the race will always exist between existance check and initial creation
1860713;1539286583;asciilifeform;phf: there's no atomic file create-or-die ?
1860714;1539286597;bvt;right, Ada.Directories.Exists was the missing piece.
1860715;1539286598;*;asciilifeform looked, didn't find, assumed that i simply didn't look hard enuff
1860716;1539286663;bvt;there is a recent linux O_TMPFILE flag to open(2), but i'm not sure we want to use that
1860717;1539286700;phf;asciilifeform: well, temp_file_name makes a temporary _name_, if you're relying on an atomic create, then you need to change the interface, where you try and create a temp file, and then bail. in that case though you don't even need any randomness. just use a counter
1860718;1539286731;asciilifeform;phf: counters won't behave well with '9000' parallel processes.
1860719;1539286737;bvt;and i'm don't know yet if files created this way can be mv'ed to file system
1860720;1539286762;phf;asciilifeform: counters exhibit exactly the same problem as a non-random seed
1860721;1539286888;asciilifeform;phf: also can lock a fixed name in /tmp when incrementing counter or whatever wants to be atomic. tho imho it's ugly
1860722;1539286922;asciilifeform;i suspect however that any solution that works across generic unixdom (i.e. doesn't marry linux) will appear similarly ugly
1860723;1539286970;bvt;perhaps better way would be to create a temporary directory (for which there is atomic create-or-die) at the vpatch start, and place all temporary files there?
1860724;1539286980;asciilifeform;possibly
1860725;1539287011;asciilifeform;if you have a working rng, all you gotta do is take 256 bits from it, and no need to stat() or anyffing; the chance of collision is coupla orders of magnitude smaller than asteroid flattening the machine
1860726;1539287871;phf;bvt: as of right now there's only one temporary file at a time during a vpatch run, so you're essentially in the same situation temp file name or temp directory anme
1860727;1539287936;phf;asciilifeform: i believe that was the real conclusion of yesterday's conversation: you want easy access to a real rng from any republican process at any time, and that makes a lot of idiotic problems go away
1860728;1539287982;phf;but it also seems that before that becomes reality we either have to patch linux kernel or implement a rng daemon or somesuch
1860729;1539288032;asciilifeform;phf: if vpatch in particular cannot be made to work 100% reliably on existing kernels, we'll have bootstrapping boojum.
1860730;1539288042;asciilifeform;really imho oughta be solvable without exotica.
1860731;1539288101;phf;asciilifeform: oh yeah it is, hash a bunch of random stuff, check for collision. that's the pragmatic solution. i'm talking about the take aways
1860732;1539288129;asciilifeform;if you can check for collisions atomically, may as well have ordinary counter .
1860733;1539288159;asciilifeform;( and it is my understanding that you can, under all known unixen, simply by locking e.g /tmp/tmsr or whatever fixed path )
1860734;1539288160;phf;you're probably right though, the temp_file_name interface needs to be replaced with open_temp_file
1860735;1539288179;bvt;uhm, strace shows me here that the temporary filename changes
1860736;1539288253;phf;bvt: that doesn't contradict what i said
1860737;1539288281;bvt;yes, i misread
1860738;1539288323;phf;tmp file gets created when you have any sort of patching operation, gets cleaned up when you no longer need it. but you could conceivably have it for the duration of the runtime. (except instead of doing file move at the end of a single file patch, you do file copy)
1860739;1539288471;phf;asciilifeform: so the posix solution is to call open with O_CREAT | O_EXCL, which will attempt to create but will signal EEXIST if the file already exists. curiously default behavior O_CREAT will simply clobber
1860740;1539288611;asciilifeform;phf: seems like oughta work ( aside from boxes where /tmp is on nfs drive, but that's a perversity imho )
1860741;1539290153;bvt;i will have a look at what primitives i need for the implementation today and tomorrow, and will come back here if i get stuck on something.
1860742;1539290173;bvt;should have implementation done over weekend
1860743;1539300611;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860619 << Call recording is not needed, imho.
1860744;1539300611;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 14:14 asciilifeform: lessee what mod6 says
1860745;1539307070;BingoBoingo;!!up TomServo
1860746;1539307071;deedbot;TomServo voiced for 30 minutes.
1860747;1539307076;BingoBoingo;Welcome back TomServo
1860748;1539307118;mod6;TomServo: This weather is getting ole mod6 down.
1860749;1539312321;phf;trinque: i've updated the key, so all you need to do is an import http://btcbase.org/data/wot/phf.asc i'm not going to do a minimization right now
1860750;1539313546;trinque;phf: appears to have worked; give it a shot
1860751;1539313783;hanbot;BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gcCGy/?raw=true
1860752;1539314262;phf;!!down
1860753;1539314312;phf;aye, thank you
1860754;1539314825;trinque;yw
1860755;1539332091;ave1;diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/, it seems that wordpress filtered out the <code> tags, could you edit / fix these (I should have used pre probably)
1860756;1539332733;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860679 << i don't get it, so you run it with a border. end of world ?
1860757;1539332733;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 17:08 asciilifeform: draws 400mW in reflector mode (~1/5 of what colour panel of that weight class eats) .
1860758;1539332948;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ahaha, ever been in a military coup before ?
1860759;1539333092;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860710 << standard algo, guaranteed to finish in at most n steps.
1860760;1539333092;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 19:34 asciilifeform: phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S   2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak)   3) stat(S') ; if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat .
1860761;1539333096;mircea_popescu;(n=filecount)
1860762;1539333174;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860712 << suppose you stat ~the file you're about to produce~ rather than stat "the file you produced already" ?
1860763;1539333174;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 19:36 phf: asciilifeform: nah, you want a random seed always, because you're trying to avoid race by producing a least likely collision. the race will always exist between existance check and initial creation
1860764;1539333288;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860728 << afaik the agremeent on that was "rewrite dev/random and dev/urandom to be ~ diana_coman 's fg wrappers.
1860765;1539333288;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 19:59 phf: but it also seems that before that becomes reality we either have to patch linux kernel or implement a rng daemon or somesuch
1860766;1539333409;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860743 << you conceivably might want to review contentious calls at some point or w/e. but kinda like cctv tapes, ~never useful.
1860767;1539333409;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 23:30 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860619 << Call recording is not needed, imho.
1860768;1539333446;ave1;the wrappers read directly from the tty and work one processor at the time.
1860769;1539333527;mircea_popescu;is the idea that the pool would; run out ?
1860770;1539333550;mircea_popescu;nice crc32 fuxing btw.
1860771;1539333601;ave1;no, that you have multiple concurrent applications all reading from the tty at the same time. Some kind of intermediate is needed to divide the bytes.
1860772;1539333636;mircea_popescu;i don't get it. you have one (kernel) reading from tty putting it into /dev/?random ; and however many apps reading from there as now.
1860773;1539333641;mircea_popescu;this creates a flow issue ?
1860774;1539333735;ave1;now, I'll have to check
1860775;1539333777;mircea_popescu;i'm naively assuming it wouldn't, but in fairness haven't actually looked into the gnarl.
1860776;1539333811;mircea_popescu;(but, importantly, /dev/random === /dev/urandom is a fundamental ideological patch. fuck the fucking idiocy!)
1860777;1539333853;mircea_popescu;there shall be ONE random. and if there isn't one, throw the shirt iron out with the garbage. and if there's "two", throw the "engineer" responsible out with the garbage.
1860778;1539334827;mircea_popescu;there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spawned them demands.
1860779;1539336150;diana_coman;ave1, why not add it as a .vpatch on the eucrypt tree?
1860780;1539336612;diana_coman;ave1, at any rate, <pre> tags added, looks good
1860781;1539336639;diana_coman;if you make it a .vpatch, I'll sign it
1860782;1539337218;ave1;well mostly because I see this more as reference code (this is how it can be done with division) and less so as production code (the table driven works very well for that)
1860783;1539337245;ave1;I'll make it a vpatch later today...
1860784;1539337254;diana_coman;well yes, but where should reference code be?
1860785;1539337275;diana_coman;there is also the bit-keccak in eucrypt and that is the same really - reference code rather than production code
1860786;1539337440;ave1;as for urandom, whenever I search for it I end up revisiting this one http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-15#1614105. It seems both are unusable.
1860787;1539337440;a111;Logged on 2017-02-15 18:59 asciilifeform: in related lulz/disinfo, http://www.2uo.de/myths-about-urandom/
1860788;1539337454;diana_coman;keeping it separate certainly makes sense (so that it's not a mandatory piece in there) but if it's code it's still basically under V that it belongs
1860789;1539344851;ave1;diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/#comment-4318
1860790;1539345148;diana_coman;nice, thanks!
1860791;1539345276;diana_coman;typo in manifest "emplementation" -> implementation ; but one can live with that
1860792;1539345292;diana_coman;you might want perhaps to add a call + check to it in the tests too?
1860793;1539345507;ave1;diana_coman, I'll add my test and fix the typo and regrind
1860794;1539345526;diana_coman;sounds good
1860795;1539346256;ave1;diana_coman, updated!
1860796;1539346587;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860756 << lcd , of any type yer likely to meet with, draws =~ current regardless of what is displayed
1860797;1539346587;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 08:25 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860679 << i don't get it, so you run it with a border. end of world ?
1860798;1539346804;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860762 << that was the contemplated stat(), yes. the sad is that idjit unix does not have a general-purpose 'this block of program is atomic' primitive, and so other cpu can fuck you b/w the stat() and open() call ( tho phf did find a open() flag that supposedly atomicises )
1860799;1539346804;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 08:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860712 << suppose you stat ~the file you're about to produce~ rather than stat "the file you produced already" ?
1860800;1539346904;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860773 << sane unixes will ~lock~ it, so errybody but 1 starves. insane ones will feed same randomola to multiple threads..
1860801;1539346904;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 08:40 mircea_popescu: this creates a flow issue ?
1860802;1539346920;asciilifeform;neither is what we'd want, imho
1860803;1539347959;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
1860804;1539347959;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 09:00 mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no excuse for having "urandom" as a kernel signal. applications that both a) care about entropy debit over time and b) can get away with substituting shit for entropy should simply manage their entropy/shitropy interface in a dedicated thread. let it read from /dev/random, add however many bits of 11110000 they want whenever they want to and vomit the resulting cesspool as the app that spawned them demands.
1860805;1539348020;asciilifeform;reading a legit /dev/random ( or FG, or any other device ) is a ~blocking~ op, potentially returns in a year if you're entropy-poor , or even rich but 9000 processes want it
1860806;1539348079;asciilifeform;but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
1860807;1539348121;asciilifeform;but if i'm overwriting a 8TB disk prior to taking it to crematorium, i'd rather urandom, i dun presently have a 200M/sec rng
1860808;1539348550;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860789 << imho a ~constant time~ crc32 would be useful, and can be made from ave1's with very small effort, but i'ma leave it as exercise for him ( simply dispose of the if's )
1860809;1539348550;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 11:47 ave1: diana_coman, http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/10/eucrypt-chapter-14-crc32-implementation-with-lookup-table/comment-page-1/#comment-4318
1860810;1539348565;asciilifeform;( the table variant is elementarily not constant time on pc )
1860811;1539348720;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860785 << waitasec, we have a non-'bit' keccak somewhere ? i.e. one that doesn't require buffers to be blown up 8x , as in http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_ksum#L76 ? i'd like this... ( and i suspect so would errybody )
1860812;1539348720;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 09:41 diana_coman: there is also the bit-keccak in eucrypt and that is the same really - reference code rather than production code
1860813;1539349688;diana_coman;asciilifeform, hm, the bit version blows up buffers even more because it uses *internally* arrays of bits as per http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/#selection-51.100-51.594
1860814;1539349777;diana_coman;ave1, thank you, I'll look through it in more detail a bit later today
1860815;1539349893;ave1;the div variant could be made to be constant time using the ffa primitives but currently is not.
1860816;1539349901;ave1;div == division
1860817;1539350548;asciilifeform;ave1: you dun need ffa for this, yer dividing single words by single word
1860818;1539350604;ave1;asciilifeform, well bits are being checked to be able to determine if xor div is needed
1860819;1539350662;ave1;and for the table lookup, it's the the table access part that's not constant time? (lookup(0) might take different time than loop(255))?
1860820;1539350768;asciilifeform;ave1: use the method illustrated in w_mux, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch1_genesis#L870
1860821;1539350831;asciilifeform;ave1: tables on pc are unconstanttime, on acct of cache
1860822;1539350855;asciilifeform;( even very small table can end up crossing page boundary )
1860823;1539350907;asciilifeform;anyway i dun think this is critical for any current application. but ideally would like to be able to take a checksum without leaking what-of
1860824;1539350954;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860813 << aa make sense
1860825;1539350954;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 13:08 diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, the bit version blows up buffers even more because it uses *internally* arrays of bits as per http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/01/eucrypt-chapter-8-bit-level-keccak-sponge/#selection-51.100-51.594
1860826;1539351093;ave1;asciilifeform, I was looking for mux just now in ffa just now and I came by the add_gated which uses a different method,.
1860827;1539351138;ave1;which I did not remember
1860828;1539351160;asciilifeform;ave1: well it's from a later chapter
1860829;1539351241;ave1;I know, it was more a description of how my memory was playing tricks on me
1860830;1539351320;ave1;I did not remember the name "mux", but did remember the method, and I was sure it would be needed in add, but then it was not there. Next in mul, again not there then in modexp...
1860831;1539351448;asciilifeform;ave1: in the moar expensive muxable ops, i 'rolled in' the muxing
1860832;1539351509;asciilifeform;( again for reasonable speed on pc, where 'data locality' can mean 10-20x speed diff )
1860833;1539351577;asciilifeform;i.e. if yer walking an array, best do errything yer gonna do to an element once, before going to next -- rather than walking it >1 time
1860834;1539352008;asciilifeform;ave1:  'if Bit31Set then   R := R or Bit31;   end if;'  << is elementarily unnecessary, think about it
1860835;1539352037;asciilifeform;if it aint set, the op does nuffin
1860836;1539352133;asciilifeform;ave1: apply same fact in the 'if BitSet then  A := A or Bit1; end if;' thing
1860837;1539352156;asciilifeform;ave1: and for the 'A := A xor D' , use a mux. and yer done.
1860838;1539352165;asciilifeform;nomoar if's.
1860839;1539352181;ave1;asciilifeform, Bit31 is in A, it needs to be shifted in on R
1860840;1539352237;asciilifeform;ave1: ~rotate~ A instead of shifting, then and with 1, then it'll be in the correct place
1860841;1539352243;asciilifeform;i illustrated this in ffa
1860842;1539352301;asciilifeform;i was gonna post an edited ver of ave1's thing, but thought he might enjoy doing with own hands
1860843;1539352330;ave1;ouch, but I hate thinking
1860844;1539352342;asciilifeform;( bonus is that the closed form is not only constant time, but substantially faster on pc, nomoar branch prediction misses )
1860845;1539352352;asciilifeform;lol
1860846;1539352970;ave1;without the if; http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AFgkC/?raw=true. This destroys A, rotate does not.
1860847;1539353287;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, 'for I in Integer range S'First .. S'First + 3 loop' is problem, what if yer string has <4 chars
1860848;1539353343;ave1;4 characters are always appended
1860849;1539353394;ave1;btw I had an implementation that did not do this appending, but then the whole body becomes more complex
1860850;1539353534;ave1;if a message is 1 byte, of the 4 bytes to append, 3 will have to be inverted (initial operation on register)
1860851;1539353553;ave1;and this then creeps into the loop
1860852;1539355150;ave1;no more ifs: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mrAYH/?raw=true
1860853;1539355159;asciilifeform;ave1: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ssOkG/?raw=true
1860854;1539355175;asciilifeform;^ can prolly simplify further
1860855;1539355180;asciilifeform;nao lemme see yours..
1860856;1539355208;ave1;is same
1860857;1539355211;asciilifeform;lol
1860858;1539355214;asciilifeform;loox like.
1860859;1539355223;ave1;also at same time pasted
1860860;1539355224;asciilifeform;( there's no point to having the 'Bit1' constant tho )
1860861;1539355264;asciilifeform;anyway i suspect it makes sense to ave1 , he came up with the correct answ
1860862;1539355273;asciilifeform;( possibly the algebra can be shortened tho )
1860863;1539355350;asciilifeform;wasn't so painful, was it.
1860864;1539355481;ave1;the painfull part was at the start when I did not know that crc used a reversed bit order and did not understand that the initial register has to be xored with the message (and not used as a kind of prepend)
1860865;1539355582;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860766 << Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking.  Would be a nice to have, just in case someone gets out-of-pocket.
1860866;1539355582;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 08:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860743 << you conceivably might want to review contentious calls at some point or w/e. but kinda like cctv tapes, ~never useful.
1860867;1539355598;mod6;asciilifeform: it was $7/mo extra for the call recording?
1860868;1539355602;asciilifeform;mod6: aha
1860869;1539355610;mod6;hrm
1860870;1539355614;asciilifeform;mod6: we have coupla month worth of 'phree' credit tho
1860871;1539355627;asciilifeform;so if you like i can leave it on for a spell
1860872;1539355647;mod6;Ok, that's fine.  Let's see what kinda calls we get in those two months.  And then we'll go from there. $7 isn't too bad at all, anyway.
1860873;1539355655;asciilifeform;btw mod6 , i haven't tested the pnoje thing yet, why dontcha try it while i go to tea
1860874;1539355656;*;asciilifeform brb
1860875;1539355784;mod6;Aight, "The customer you have dialed is not avaliable at this time. Good-bye."
1860876;1539356504;ave1;btw, turns out I was wrong on; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860768. I can run the entropy source tests in parallel without problem (jyst takes n times longer, so scales as expected)
1860877;1539356504;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 08:37 ave1: the wrappers read directly from the tty and work one processor at the time.
1860878;1539358261;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Thank you very much
1860879;1539358456;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: This would be my first if it happens. My read is there's still time for National Party to get their shit together for the impending election. They have a celebrity MUGA candidate officially announcing in a few weeks.
1860880;1539358500;BingoBoingo;On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
1860881;1539358907;asciilifeform;mod6: i dun see any calls in the log. gonna write to the vendor shortly.
1860882;1539358933;asciilifeform;mod6: did it go to eggog immediately or long-tone for a while ?
1860883;1539358980;BingoBoingo;https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/blancos-reciben-con-el-cuchillo-entre-dientes-al-millonario-sartori--20181011173848 << Tell me if you have seen this play before anywhere
1860884;1539359060;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860876 << how do you know you aint feeding overlapping rngola to the parallel processes ?
1860885;1539359060;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 15:01 ave1: btw, turns out I was wrong on; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860768. I can run the entropy source tests in parallel without problem (jyst takes n times longer, so scales as expected)
1860886;1539360008;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo lulz potential in either case!
1860887;1539360016;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: For sure
1860888;1539360509;mircea_popescu;in other MCGA, yest spent lunch at table with three girls, at upscale italian place where there were three girls total. on the left, tableful of dudes. on the right, tableful of dudes. nobody said as much as zip, though i was openly playing with tits over cacciucco.
1860889;1539360525;mircea_popescu;mace kucks grate agane!
1860890;1539360710;BingoBoingo;!b 4
1860891;1539360996;mod6;lel
1860892;1539361010;mod6;asciilifeform: it was straight to eggog
1860893;1539361012;mod6;i'll try again
1860894;1539361160;mod6;Ok cool, it works.  I think my problem is that i dialed a "1" in front of the entire number.
1860895;1539361202;mod6;833-867-7282 << this is how you dial it from usg phone
1860896;1539361213;mircea_popescu;o hey, tested ? nice!
1860897;1539361228;mircea_popescu;fancy that, mod6 , tbf now has 0800 number.
1860898;1539361231;mod6;Heheh, up, surpised nicole
1860899;1539361239;mircea_popescu;afaik none of the other various pretenders managed as much.
1860900;1539361242;mod6;yeah, pretty neat
1860901;1539361266;mircea_popescu;and looking back, wasn't that much trouble at all. just needed to be done. 20 bux, whassat.
1860902;1539361281;mod6;yeah, that's fine.  and the call quality was good -- totally clear.
1860903;1539361285;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aaactually had to fight with vendor ~daily for ~week
1860904;1539361294;asciilifeform;and make acct 2nd time, and various liquishit paperworx
1860905;1539361303;mircea_popescu;o.O
1860906;1539361305;mircea_popescu;why the fuck ?!
1860907;1539361378;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cuz promised 'next day' and turned out ~week, and place runs on meat/monkeys rather than (as implied) comp
1860908;1539361397;mircea_popescu;wait, wait. there's a chick with ye olde metal probes making contacts on the board ?
1860909;1539361410;mircea_popescu;motherfucker get pics, you have any idea how oldschool cool this is getting to be ?
1860910;1539361414;mod6;Ethel on the switchboards.
1860911;1539361417;mircea_popescu;we're putting it in the tmsr music video.
1860912;1539361420;asciilifeform;possibly not quite this sad, but there apparently was d00ds filling out spreadshits by hand
1860913;1539361435;mircea_popescu;the us is the premiere technology and things in the werld!
1860914;1539361436;asciilifeform;i suspect it's a dns-style racket, they purchase the #s somewhere & resell
1860915;1539361441;mircea_popescu;prolly.
1860916;1539361457;asciilifeform;subj is far from my daily doings so i have presently nfi just where they get'em
1860917;1539361461;mircea_popescu;if the pricepoint's any indication... and the pricepoint always is the first and foremost indication.
1860918;1539361479;mircea_popescu;"this salami costs as much as that cheese, ERGO THIS SALAMI IS THAT CHEESE". and this phone thing dns, and so on.
1860919;1539361489;asciilifeform;it's an aol-style 'cheap but then let'em add the bells & whistles and then they'll pay' sorta thing.
1860920;1539361501;mircea_popescu;how much did it end up ?
1860921;1539361534;asciilifeform;18bux upfront; 180.18 'phree credit' remaining
1860922;1539361550;mod6;Nice, when you run out, just invoice the Foundation via jurov plz.
1860923;1539361558;mircea_popescu;mod6 ah you picking this up ?
1860924;1539361561;asciilifeform;i.e. by my reckoning, 9 months of service if nobody calls, and fewer if sumbody does
1860925;1539361588;mod6;I think it's fine that the Foundation pays for it's toll-free number, Sure.  Objections?
1860926;1539361589;asciilifeform;( iirc 5c/min )
1860927;1539361609;mircea_popescu;aite. i was gonna pay myself, but see no problem with tbf picking it up either. all yours.
1860928;1539361628;mod6;Sounds good.
1860929;1539361644;asciilifeform;i'ma invoice mod6 then as soon as it actually costs sumthing nontrivial, or erry 6mo, whichever comes 1st
1860930;1539361663;mod6;Cool, but srsly, invoice jurov, he pays 'em.
1860931;1539361669;mircea_popescu;the conversations rich people have...
1860932;1539361674;mod6;haha
1860933;1539361675;asciilifeform;btw theres a (apparently phree) feature where it can go to diff receivers at different times of day
1860934;1539361681;mircea_popescu;you niggas white or what.
1860935;1539361682;asciilifeform;so if sumbody wants to be telephonist...
1860936;1539361691;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/five-eyes-spy-cartel-announces-counter-china-operations/ << Qntra - Five Eyes Spy Cartel Announces Counter China Operations
1860937;1539361697;mircea_popescu;aaahahaha
1860938;1539361733;mod6;asciilifeform: ahh good to know.
1860939;1539361741;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo nice lol.
1860940;1539361758;mod6;Is there a feature where it'll ring to person 1, and if person 1 does not answer, it'll roll to a different number?
1860941;1539361767;asciilifeform;mod6: indeed there is
1860942;1539361774;mod6;Ah, that's pretty handy too.
1860943;1539361776;asciilifeform;you can have theoretically unlimited # of these
1860944;1539361780;mircea_popescu;this might be useful, but i'm not putting a 2nd slavegirl on this galley.
1860945;1539361789;asciilifeform;anybody who wants to be in this list, plox to gpg #.
1860946;1539361804;asciilifeform;otherwise it'll be just the one mircea_popescu supplied.
1860947;1539361807;mircea_popescu;actually... ideally prolly euro zone anyway.
1860948;1539361821;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: keep in mind that 8xx only work from usa
1860949;1539361840;mircea_popescu;though, logically, if we care enough about permanence rather than existence, more logical to also make euro free number, and add euro located respondent, and then criss-cross these on 2nd pass.
1860950;1539361855;mircea_popescu;but imo by now this is getting overengineered. let's revisit it if/when becomes importanrt.
1860951;1539361861;asciilifeform;currently i've nfi how to make eu phree pnojes, would have to look into it if it becomes interesting
1860952;1539361876;mircea_popescu;it's a thing, just like us, but anyway. next year.
1860953;1539361879;asciilifeform;afaik avoxi dun do euro, would need a 2nd vendor.
1860954;1539361882;mod6;I agree, let's just visit this when we have the problem.
1860955;1539361884;mircea_popescu;next years in dusseldorf.
1860956;1539361887;asciilifeform;aha
1860957;1539361937;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860782 << good to have both ends, for reason alf pointed out (embedded systems might not afford the kbs)
1860958;1539361937;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 09:40 ave1: well mostly because I see this more as reference code (this is how it can be done with division) and less so as production code (the table driven works very well for that)
1860959;1539361942;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu for supplying the idea and the picker-up
1860960;1539361958;mircea_popescu;ave1 you can literally make it alternate patch to the table crc32, so one can press either, according to need/want.
1860961;1539361969;mircea_popescu;this way we also get to explore that fabled tree resolution stuff in v.
1860962;1539361980;asciilifeform;^ The Right Thing imho
1860963;1539361985;mircea_popescu;oya.
1860964;1539361987;asciilifeform;( recall #ifdefism thread )
1860965;1539362025;mircea_popescu;in a word, ave1 : don't be shy. there's a time to be shy, but when they bring out the playdo's not that time. shove it up shirts, see what happens.
1860966;1539362042;asciilifeform;mod6: i recommend to put the #, "1-833-TMSRBTC" , on tbf www
1860967;1539362080;mircea_popescu;(kindergarten mp once famously convinced smitten kitten to sit put for playdo shoving up nostrils "to see what happens". emergency room visit happened, and very sad & contrite mp.)
1860968;1539362088;mod6;I can do that -- the "1" in front didn't work for me tho!
1860969;1539362095;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why 1 ?!
1860970;1539362111;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: traditionally these dun work w/out the prefix
1860971;1539362117;asciilifeform;but apparently mod6's telco is opposite, so i have nfi
1860972;1539362123;mircea_popescu;you tested yourself ?
1860973;1539362134;asciilifeform;notyet, but why not!
1860974;1539362135;*;asciilifeform brb
1860975;1539362152;mircea_popescu;she'll be pleased to hear from you :)
1860976;1539362161;mod6;btw... jurov and I are working on relocating the bitcoin.foundation website to the foundation's server in Pizarro.  We're gonna get it set up, and test before we announce a cut-over date.  Smooth transition, ftw.
1860977;1539362184;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> she'll be pleased to hear from you :) << Or give him an earful about logs to summarize
1860978;1539362190;mircea_popescu;alf be like "hello ? oh, is this nicole ? JUST CALLED TO TELL YOU YOUR PHONE ANSWERING SUCKS! i mean... i was expecting it to improve but it turns out NOT"
1860979;1539362206;asciilifeform;worx!!
1860980;1539362211;asciilifeform;she was bit confused.
1860981;1539362220;asciilifeform;worked with 1-833.
1860982;1539362224;mircea_popescu;o.O
1860983;1539362233;mod6;your phone is tapped
1860984;1539362235;mircea_popescu;so wait, wait. these idiots managed to create dialing ambiguity ?!
1860985;1539362246;asciilifeform;i dun pnoje much these days, nfi
1860986;1539362248;mircea_popescu;as in, we don't now know if it's 1833 or 833 ?!
1860987;1539362250;BingoBoingo;Nah, dialing ambiguity is a US telecom thing
1860988;1539362259;asciilifeform;1 is usa pnoje prefix
1860989;1539362262;mircea_popescu;what the fuck is wrong with that country.
1860990;1539362267;BingoBoingo;Much
1860991;1539362279;mircea_popescu;mod6 write it as "[1] 833 TMSR BTC"
1860992;1539362280;mod6;i expected the "1" to work, however, maybe it's just a "smrt phone" thing
1860993;1539362285;mod6;mircea_popescu: got it.
1860994;1539362374;asciilifeform;btw there's another pheature, also apparently 0cost, that lets you make calls ~from~ it
1860995;1539362386;asciilifeform;but i did not plug it in, couldn't think of why to do presently
1860996;1539362411;mod6;Alright, check it out: http://thebitcoin.foundation
1860997;1539362423;asciilifeform;oh hey
1860998;1539362438;mod6;Any changes?
1860999;1539362447;mircea_popescu;no dashes
1861000;1539362455;mod6;Ok, sec...
1861001;1539362470;mod6;Ok gone
1861002;1539362496;asciilifeform;can also nix the space b/w tmsr and btc
1861003;1539362497;mircea_popescu;imo looks pretty cool.
1861004;1539362500;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nah.
1861005;1539362506;mircea_popescu;mnemonics!
1861006;1539362509;asciilifeform;aite
1861007;1539362532;mod6;*thumbsup*
1861008;1539362540;asciilifeform;thing has voice mail too, but i assumed receiver has own and didn't plug it in
1861009;1539362623;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860796 << i meant strictly as "oh, can't use, it's wrong proportion". so what if it is ?!
1861010;1539362623;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 12:16 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860756 << lcd , of any type yer likely to meet with, draws =~ current regardless of what is displayed
1861011;1539362642;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aah, orig thread was re what machines it can be sewn into
1861012;1539362657;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: specifically, it cannot sit down in the beloved x60 or any other 4:3
1861013;1539362662;mircea_popescu;all. because, whether they expect 16:9 or 4:3 or 19:6 or anything else, you can... margin it!
1861014;1539362670;mircea_popescu;ofcourseitcan!
1861015;1539362682;asciilifeform;it's a physical part, gotta fit in the frame
1861016;1539362693;asciilifeform;( cable , can be adaptered, in theory, but frame is what it is )
1861017;1539362707;mircea_popescu;ah come on. ductape and bimbo-chewed gum.
1861018;1539362711;asciilifeform;ugh
1861019;1539362717;mircea_popescu;don't tell me your problem is not having a 3d printer./
1861020;1539362728;asciilifeform;if yer willing to carry suitcase, may as well get the chinese hdmi/vga boardlet and use with rk.
1861021;1539362755;mircea_popescu;imo this half-problem was born for being trampled ignominously, but then again that's just me.
1861022;1539362797;asciilifeform;there's 6 or so known lappies where thing fits natively, with 0 construction work, i have one due to show up next wk, will post photo if worx.
1861023;1539362824;asciilifeform;i have nfi if item is of interest to anyone other than asciilifeform , aside from possibly phf
1861024;1539362870;mircea_popescu;i dunno, i kinda like playing heroes2 on lappies, >50% of their utility, whip it out while camping or w/e. but...
1861025;1539362872;asciilifeform;lenovo box, with roughly same chipset as x60
1861026;1539362881;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you'd play in b&w ?!
1861027;1539362886;mircea_popescu;meh.
1861028;1539362904;asciilifeform;in very bright sun it gives colour, of a sort, interestingly
1861029;1539362911;mircea_popescu;heh
1861030;1539362917;asciilifeform;( as well as if you turn on the backlight led, then it becomes ~ordinary screen )
1861031;1539362936;mircea_popescu;im kinda happy with darlana's red hair-rubies & vatawna's golden locks.
1861032;1539362985;asciilifeform;the maker of the thing folded coupla yrs ago, they had 2 major buyers, the 'olpc' idjicy (dead) and usg (made clone, as i understand) and so starved.
1861033;1539362996;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860803 << any program which CAN use urand DOES NOT need nor should have real entropy.
1861034;1539362996;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 12:39 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860778 << there are not so many legitimate uses for /dev/urandom. however the idea that it can be fully reproduced in userland without kernel knob is afaik a mistake -- the thing gives you real entropy if available, and elsewise prngolade; importantly, as a ~nonblocking~ operation. idea is that it ~always~ returns in constant time.
1861035;1539363045;mircea_popescu;have your own program designed correctly, so your own shitropy management thread ensures your own shitropy calls always return in constant time. YOUR JOB, as a shitropy eater.
1861036;1539363059;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i sat down & tried to think of a legit use for urandom, only came up with what's in the linked thread
1861037;1539363066;asciilifeform;tbh i wouldn't miss it if it vanished.
1861038;1539363067;mircea_popescu;ie, if the most shitropy you ever want in one gulp is x, make manager thread create that chunk in contiguous memory and keep it full.
1861039;1539363078;mircea_popescu;and none of the "but mp, if i make it the size i think it should be it crashes" bs.
1861040;1539363111;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the reason i even called it ideological patch is because the pretense that shitropy-eaters have anyhthing to do with entropy, or us,  must be shot in the head.
1861041;1539363141;mircea_popescu;fucktarded zeks that eat the usg cheese THEREFORE CAN NOT nor should eat my cheese. and we're back to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860889
1861042;1539363141;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 16:08 mircea_popescu: mace kucks grate agane!
1861043;1539363152;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall also how the thing came to be ( was idjit hack, around the fact that 'sshd wants entropy at boot time, before rng init' or somesuch )
1861044;1539363164;mircea_popescu;w/e "customer has come to expect" - ism.
1861045;1539363176;asciilifeform;!#s tv raft
1861046;1539363177;a111;14 results for "tv raft", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tv%20raft
1861047;1539363193;asciilifeform;( trilema item, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 )
1861048;1539363193;a111;Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
1861049;1539363206;mircea_popescu;i am by now thoroughly allergic to this "downstream wants something upstream doesn't provide, so it's neither time to bring out the whips and chains upon the downstream nor to throw out the upstream and bake a new one, but instead let's hotwire the microwave ballast to the toaster."
1861050;1539363223;asciilifeform;afaik it's exactly this
1861051;1539363253;mircea_popescu;there's a time when the hotglue guns and bimbo-chewed gum comes out.
1861052;1539363258;mircea_popescu;that time is not everytime.
1861053;1539363301;asciilifeform;if pc had been designed by sane folx, it'd have rng that worx at bus speed, and nobody could have even conceived of this nonsense.
1861054;1539363365;mircea_popescu;in the 1980s engineers / cstronicists' defense, it was not yet understood how important entropy is to individuality and human existence.
1861055;1539363382;mircea_popescu;rsa not born yet ; all our practice not yet practiced. i can scarcely blame aurel vlaicu for using textile fixed wing.
1861056;1539363406;mircea_popescu;but yes, access to entropy is by now the one underpinning of being a citizen.
1861057;1539363408;asciilifeform;rsa very much existed in '80s, good % of the classic papers re real-life algos for it are from exactly then
1861058;1539363438;asciilifeform;wasn't widely in use tho, because expensive.
1861059;1539363498;asciilifeform;( at one time i tried to rsa on 6502, it's a royal bitch on 8bit-wide chip with no multiplier )
1861060;1539363533;asciilifeform;~hour for mod-exp.
1861061;1539363570;asciilifeform;z80 ditto
1861062;1539363752;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform rsa first published 1977 ; Intel produces the world's first single-chip CPU, the 4004 microprocessor. in 1971.
1861063;1539363774;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: most of the subj (e.g. barrett's algo) is late-80s
1861064;1539363795;*;asciilifeform has entire bookshelf of it nao
1861065;1539363852;asciilifeform;orig. msdos 'pgp' was , what, '92 ? and the mit-istic bastardizations, shortly after
1861066;1539363855;mircea_popescu;either you go "early", in which case 1971 is before 1977 ; or else you go "mass adoption", in which case killer micro is 1990s, but rsa is EXACTLY gribble-assbot schism, cca 2013.
1861067;1539363863;mircea_popescu;in either case, rsa after.
1861068;1539363940;asciilifeform;yea not much point in counting banks etc. sad-512bit-rsa of mid-90s
1861069;1539363977;asciilifeform;( entertainingly analogous, imho, to their current-day 'proprietary blockchains(tm)' liquishit )
1861070;1539363997;asciilifeform;'let's do this, but without doing it'
1861071;1539364019;mircea_popescu;right. otherwise it becomes this arbitrary-point anachronism in the vein of "grandmother should have fucked better sailors on the basis of how retarded granson is, and i can prove this by showing grandson was alive at an arbitrary point in time grandmother  hadn't died yet."
1861072;1539364093;asciilifeform;btw there's a megatonne of 512b rsa keys in my db
1861073;1539364101;asciilifeform;1024b, even moar
1861074;1539364139;asciilifeform;right nao they cost maybe 100bux ea. to break.
1861075;1539364152;asciilifeform;( and that's at 'ratecard' cpu farm )
1861076;1539364458;mircea_popescu;aha.
1861077;1539364517;mircea_popescu;"Texas Instruments delivers the first Advanced Scientific Computer (also called Advanced Seismic Computer), containing 4 pipelines with an 80 ns clock time. Vector instructions were memory-to-memory. Seven of these machines are later built, and an aggressive automatic vectorizing FORTRAN compiler is developed for them. It is the first machine to contain SECDED (Single Error Correction, Double Error Detection) memory. " << als
1861078;1539364517;mircea_popescu;o 71.
1861079;1539364549;mircea_popescu;other than this, computing was pretty much 100% radar signal processing at the time.
1861080;1539364684;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ti is epic example of sad -- at one time 1 of the largest semiconductor houses in usa, and built not only a lispm ( flopped ) but fairly beefy 80s micro ( ti-99/4 , also flopped )
1861081;1539364709;asciilifeform;pissed away pretty much all market , despite at one time heavy muscle
1861082;1539364715;mircea_popescu;aha.
1861083;1539364751;mircea_popescu;kinda why i even took up the logline. it might be the worst #blackchickscode #womenarepeopletoo #slavesrightsnao #lxsdumbxs etc etc failure in history.
1861084;1539364791;mircea_popescu;pity nobody bothers to write the story of their spectacular implosion. it'd make ye olde http://trilema.com/2014/fred-quimby-and-ancient-evils/ story look quite tame.
1861085;1539364794;asciilifeform;they had a line of pocket calculators, this was ( and as i understand, remains ) their flagship product. but! they somehow managed to lose their upstream ic vendors (they dun make much with own hands any moar) and nao reduced to selling same calc with ~ipnoje+emulator internals, and multi-second boot(yes) times
1861086;1539364829;mircea_popescu;it's not so much "ti could have been the intel-microsoft/apple", but rather... it was. fucking was.
1861087;1539364847;asciilifeform;!#s ti-89
1861088;1539364848;a111;51 results for "ti-89", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ti-89
1861089;1539364854;asciilifeform;e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763212
1861090;1539364854;a111;Logged on 2018-01-03 17:37 ben_vulpes: so i dug this ti-89 platinum out of my closet last night to have something tactile to do arithmetic on and holy shit i'd completely forgotten about the input lag
1861091;1539364860;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/pantsuit-media-slanders-kim-kardashians-husband-as-an-incel/ << Qntra - Pantsuit Media Slanders Kim Kardashian's Husband As An "Incel"
1861092;1539364861;BingoBoingo;^Relatit
1861093;1539364869;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall, box ran 'derive' internally
1861094;1539364884;asciilifeform;was imho the king of '90s pocketcalcism
1861095;1539364902;*;asciilifeform still uses occasionally
1861096;1539364913;mircea_popescu;gave it ALL away on inept management. and not even the "fucktarded engineer manalones" http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1641130 stuff.
1861097;1539364913;a111;Logged on 2017-04-09 22:51 mircea_popescu: anyway, in the above retelling, the 4->5 transition is the coup the grace. they couldn't "follow" each other ~because~, in this view, they were bereft of sufficient bandwith to in any sense communicate. so they couldn't, like, end up with all the same one substitute cuntcap.
1861098;1539365018;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575059 related lulz, https://image.ibb.co/eMOrdp/no-rights-for-tards.jpg
1861099;1539365018;a111;Logged on 2016-11-30 23:04 asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too.  It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
1861100;1539365021;mircea_popescu;READ BOOKS!!!
1861101;1539365150;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: phunphakt : the only reason, afaik, why ti still not bankrupt , is that they somehow managed to get their bottom line calcs to be ~mandated~ in schools in ~whole usa
1861102;1539365176;asciilifeform;( they also make a few high-end DACs, etc., but this prolly would not keep'em alive by itself )
1861103;1539365207;mircea_popescu;perfectly illustrates my point re terrible management. but yes.
1861104;1539365246;asciilifeform;~30 solid yrs of shit management
1861105;1539365285;asciilifeform;if not for massive printolade infusions, would have died at roughly same time as commodore co.
1861106;1539365286;mircea_popescu;!#s bad revenue source
1861107;1539365287;a111;5 results for "bad revenue source", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bad%20revenue%20source
1861108;1539365374;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why did you link that exercise in idiocy re urand above ?
1861109;1539365382;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the https://archive.is/clOSG link is a null page
1861110;1539365391;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hm?
1861111;1539365396;mircea_popescu;so fucking stupid it's not even wrong. it's just too stupid to anything else.
1861112;1539365470;mircea_popescu;oh sorry, you labelled "related lulz/disinfo". i had it in buffer, got around to it, and well...
1861113;1539365475;mircea_popescu;gave me a start.
1861114;1539365520;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Not entirely null, perfectly indicts actor who can't do accesible web design
1861115;1539365554;asciilifeform;phunphakt : bernstein (aka djb) pushes urandomism. actively.
1861116;1539365589;mircea_popescu;and jwz just wants email to work, news at 11.
1861117;1539365666;asciilifeform;in related lulz, and iirc we had a thread ( tho can't seem to unearth it ), urandom is sufficiently sad that when asciilifeform was running genetic algos / monte carlo / etc. crapolade , yrs ago, from it... would regularly fail to converge
1861118;1539365672;asciilifeform;it was how i even got into rngism
1861119;1539365682;mircea_popescu;lmao.
1861120;1539365694;mircea_popescu;i heard same years ago from astrophysics simulator folks.
1861121;1539365706;mircea_popescu;ended up baking own, cabined size, noisemaker.
1861122;1539365715;mircea_popescu;"what do you have there ? cats ?" "inter alia..."
1861123;1539365718;asciilifeform;i even naively expected that we'd have steady trickle of physics folx buying FG
1861124;1539365722;asciilifeform;but somehow nope
1861125;1539365787;asciilifeform;( my sim -- converged!11 -- when i fed it... don lancaster's geiger rng tarball. )
1861126;1539365817;mircea_popescu;science spoken in english is very sad these days.
1861127;1539365825;asciilifeform;that was when asciilifeform's '3rd eye opened'
1861128;1539365863;mircea_popescu;(re above -- THEY ended up baking. i had nfi.)
1861129;1539365876;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-27#811490 << see also.
1861130;1539365876;a111;Logged on 2014-08-27 02:03 asciilifeform: bats_cd03: 'random' means one thing if you're running 'monte carlo' sims (digits of 'pi' work beautifully, as does 'A Million Random Digits with 100,000 Normal Deviates' (rand corp, 1955. book.))
1861131;1539365906;asciilifeform;^ still in print, last i saw, incidentally
1861132;1539365929;mircea_popescu;pretty great book to write.
1861133;1539365941;asciilifeform;allegedly they actually had meat army throwing dice.
1861134;1539365954;asciilifeform;an' debiasing with pen and paper.
1861135;1539365989;asciilifeform;coupla tho monkey-hours.
1861136;1539366033;mircea_popescu;honestly, just buy 2mn dice, put them all in a large bag hoisted to a pole and let it drop.
1861137;1539366063;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i find myself wondering how many physics folx sit and bite their lips, 'monte carlo dun work so good...', cuz they bought $50k swiss 'quantum rng' that whitens with sha.
1861138;1539366082;mircea_popescu;if they're out there let them doh.
1861139;1539366096;asciilifeform;afaik that's all of'em.
1861140;1539366103;mircea_popescu;"i wonder how much science was fucked out of existence / significantly delayed by #metoo-isms and in general, spurious involvement of idiots"
1861141;1539366121;asciilifeform;this pre-dates most of the current acute nonsense, even
1861142;1539366149;mircea_popescu;every time xantipa interrupted her illustious husband with some nonsense or other, rite.
1861143;1539366177;asciilifeform;it aint as if von neumann didn't warn'em.
1861144;1539366185;asciilifeform;'state of sin', or how did it go.
1861145;1539366278;mircea_popescu;pandora also warned. what's in a warning.
1861146;1539366298;asciilifeform;notmuch. 'they have ears, but do not hear'(tm)
1861147;1539366400;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860806 << "own prng" stance also correctly implements specificity-of-diddling republican doctrine, and more importantly one not really so formally expressed before -- that responsibility must sit with they responsible.
1861148;1539366400;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 12:41 asciilifeform: but yes if you're picking the next piece to fall in 'tetris', just use own prng
1861149;1539366419;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sorta why i didn't even want a /dev/random, recall
1861150;1539366495;mircea_popescu;if you want to keep slaves -- then YOU administer the keeping of the slaves. you don't ask sheriff of wherver county to implement the fugitive slave act. and so on. who wants prng makes prng, does not get to pretend "oh, kernel has this knob for me, '''im not entirely sure what it does lol'''" tongue in cheek bs, '''i just dress like this, it doesn't mean anyhthing''' etc.
1861151;1539366510;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform kernel should read fg like it reads memory.
1861152;1539366541;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it behaves moar like a (very slowly moving) tape, tho, rather than memory
1861153;1539366571;mircea_popescu;the only problem, to my eye, is that good abstraction is being hijacked by the female minded to implement bad abstraction, ie, instead of an insulation from detail abstraction becomes an insulation from responsibility.
1861154;1539366583;asciilifeform;if kernel gotta be involved at all, it really ought to be simply to prevent multiple processes from seeing same FG bits.
1861155;1539366588;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform right, but same principle.
1861156;1539366589;mircea_popescu;well yes.
1861157;1539366631;asciilifeform;currently i suspect that 'slicing' (per ave1 thread) isn't even wanted; but simply locking.
1861158;1539366648;asciilifeform;grab how many bits you want, then let go of the toilet lock for the next process.
1861159;1539366678;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860808 << not a bad idea actually.
1861160;1539366678;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 12:49 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860789 << imho a ~constant time~ crc32 would be useful, and can be made from ave1's with very small effort, but i'ma leave it as exercise for him ( simply dispose of the if's )
1861161;1539366691;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was done ( twice ! ) , lol, see further downthread.
1861162;1539366711;mircea_popescu;lol kk, going through.
1861163;1539366765;mircea_popescu;meanwhile visiting duckling got into my shoes, is individually gumming each of however many dozens laces, then forgetting its count and starting over.
1861164;1539366768;asciilifeform;imho pretty good didactic thread, btw, i'ma start linking to it
1861165;1539366812;asciilifeform;( walkthrough of how to take 'programmatic' form and turn into closed-algebraic )
1861166;1539367040;asciilifeform;btw ave1 , if you're gonna keep the 'minimum 4 bytes of input', it oughta be a precondition to the func.
1861167;1539367162;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860843 << o yeah, that's so evident from the extant record, too...
1861168;1539367162;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 13:52 ave1: ouch, but I hate thinking
1861169;1539367168;asciilifeform;lol
1861170;1539367194;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860844 << exactly.
1861171;1539367194;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 13:52 asciilifeform: ( bonus is that the closed form is not only constant time, but substantially faster on pc, nomoar branch prediction misses )
1861172;1539367208;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unrollable, too.
1861173;1539367218;mircea_popescu;trying to figure out the future misses of the obvious by the branch predictor is the best way to drive intelligent people insane i know of.
1861174;1539367269;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: x86 actually has terrifying hacks, in instruction sets, 'likely branch'/'unlikely branch'
1861175;1539367278;asciilifeform;spawned by this sorta thing
1861176;1539367280;mircea_popescu;aha.
1861177;1539367298;mircea_popescu;kinda how the whole thing even came to my attention. "really ?"
1861178;1539367317;asciilifeform;it has a legit, sorta, use -- long loops ( where branch 'likely', given as it is taken for all but final shot ) but still ugh
1861179;1539367433;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860859 <<< ahaha this was a hystorical histerical moment!
1861180;1539367433;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
1861181;1539367435;asciilifeform;personally i fucking hate branch prediction and other hacks around the slow main memory that for some reason there's no buyable alternative to ( cray is dead )
1861182;1539367440;mircea_popescu;republican agreement!
1861183;1539367474;asciilifeform;i'd rather have addressable sram , and explicit movement to/from a slower/cheaper brick
1861184;1539367512;mircea_popescu;so like a handrolled cache.
1861185;1539367520;asciilifeform;aha!
1861186;1539367526;asciilifeform;but with 'stick shift'
1861187;1539367528;mircea_popescu;if you ever design a car, i bet it'll come with direct command ignition clicker.
1861188;1539367534;mircea_popescu;AS MANY BUTTONS AS SPARKPLUGS
1861189;1539367547;asciilifeform;lol
1861190;1539367567;mircea_popescu;(correspondingly -- alf's boat design will come with the necessary body of water.)
1861191;1539367570;asciilifeform;( recall, early steam engine actually had ~this )
1861192;1539367615;mircea_popescu;"surfer girl toy set. batteries and ocean included"
1861193;1539367713;asciilifeform;lol, could even describe e.g. trb this way
1861194;1539367767;asciilifeform;speaking of trb, i dusted off an old conveyor item, phuctor-like www proggy that maps out noadez ( you give it ips, and it connects to'em, then issues 'version' and 'getaddr', and builds a graph )
1861195;1539367788;mircea_popescu;nb.
1861196;1539367794;asciilifeform;idea being a republican (and non-idiotic) replacement for the https://bitnodes.earn.com/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/ item
1861197;1539367795;mircea_popescu;were you making a bot or already had a bot ?
1861198;1539367809;mircea_popescu;i recall some discussion
1861199;1539367811;asciilifeform;irc bot ?
1861200;1539367813;mircea_popescu;yea
1861201;1539367830;mircea_popescu;!alf check 16.22.33.56
1861202;1539367831;asciilifeform;i have 1 presently ( switched off, will move it to pizarro in near fyootoor ) , talks to ffa
1861203;1539367844;asciilifeform;ah yes i'ma use same skeleton for the nodes thing
1861204;1539367852;asciilifeform;initial draft is a plain phuctor-like www display tho
1861205;1539367856;mircea_popescu;ideally use same bot. have a buncha functions in it.
1861206;1539367861;mircea_popescu;think of it like your digital pet.
1861207;1539367866;mircea_popescu;which is exactly what they are.
1861208;1539367867;asciilifeform;definitely calls for a text bot
1861209;1539367932;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw i think you'll like this, by default thing does opposite of the heathen one, doesn't display prb nodes individually, but simply as a collective 'sad people' stat # .
1861210;1539367940;asciilifeform;individual display only of trb-compat folx.
1861211;1539367964;asciilifeform;further in pipeline, will be a thing that actually asks'em for a randomly-picked block, and sees if it keccaks to what i've got.
1861212;1539367977;mircea_popescu;(one perfectly legitimate way to build-towards-gossipd is to make the following item standard : every bot, upon receiving some registration order from anyone in owner's wot, will then respond to "any messages for me ?" with a "since yo ulast asked, here's all the loglines i have seen which highlighted your name".
1861213;1539367989;asciilifeform;this'd be gold, imho, yes
1861214;1539367990;mircea_popescu;this then would allow one to maintain presence without ever connecting to the internet.
1861215;1539368000;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860960 -> hm, doesn't the manifest impose a single line rather than a tree?
1861216;1539368000;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 16:32 mircea_popescu: ave1 you can literally make it alternate patch to the table crc32, so one can press either, according to need/want.
1861217;1539368017;asciilifeform;diana_coman: no? you can branch on manifest like on anyffing else
1861218;1539368019;mircea_popescu;diana_coman a single line ~in the press~. but a tree ~in existence~.
1861219;1539368040;mircea_popescu;press == taking the tree of patches and building a line among them
1861220;1539368040;diana_coman;ah, alternative line in manifest too, I see it
1861221;1539368044;diana_coman;makes sense, yes
1861222;1539368047;mircea_popescu;why not. sure.
1861223;1539368058;asciilifeform;manifest is a piece of handy docs, not a straightjacket, lol
1861224;1539368064;mircea_popescu;right.
1861225;1539368069;diana_coman;and it fits perfectly the original idea of alternative, proper
1861226;1539368090;mircea_popescu;note that it's not even illegal to blank the manifest or w/e. impolite, yes, but the spec allows.
1861227;1539368117;mircea_popescu;sorta how physics perfectly permits the destruction of statues, even though people tend to not indulge.
1861228;1539368120;asciilifeform;if yer nuking the manifest, good form would be to regenesis then imho. but yes
1861229;1539368145;diana_coman;well yes, I can't quite see the point of blanking the manifest without regenesis since that's basically what it means
1861230;1539368188;trinque;just didn't need preventing, as the bad form is screamingly apparent
1861231;1539368204;diana_coman;so I guess I'll wait then on ave1's updated .vpatch then
1861232;1539368235;asciilifeform;re upstack -- as it happens, 'trb-compat' is pretty easy to distinguish mechanically -- anybody who has 'services' field != 1, aint trb-compat.
1861233;1539368254;asciilifeform;( granted such a survey won't distinguish 'pseudos' or outright shams, the only item that can do it is an actual noad )
1861234;1539368322;asciilifeform;the 1 'litmus test' i was able to think of , is the 'i pick a block hash and you gimme the block in <1s' algo.
1861235;1539368412;asciilifeform;i strongly suspect that a very large % of the current set of 'nodes' won't pass.
1861236;1539368476;asciilifeform;btw trb could in principle be made entirely distinguishable, if we were to permit asking for a ~tx~ in 'inv' command ( currently prohibited , because prb nuked indexing , but could be brought into trb with no ill effect aside from some cpu cost )
1861237;1539368513;asciilifeform;in-block tx, that is, rather than mempool
1861238;1539368608;asciilifeform;it's a 2edged blade, as it would be a great temptation to 'light client' idjits to parasitize on trb. but would make for easy litmus.
1861239;1539368964;mats;BingoBoingo: thx
1861240;1539368964;lobbesbot;mats: Sent 1 day, 0 hours, and 30 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NaRtE/?raw=true
1861241;1539368977;BingoBoingo;mats: No, thank you
1861242;1539369229;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860880 << bwahaha. amplio what, amplio culo
1861243;1539369229;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 15:35 BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
1861244;1539369403;mircea_popescu;"Molesto, Abdala sostuvo que prefiere que no se presente. “No puede caer un millonario en paracaídas a decir que va a ser precandidato”, dijo. " <<< ahjahaha AND WHY THE FUCK NOT ?
1861245;1539369455;mircea_popescu;what, because while he was getting rich and htey weren't "they were doing something equallty important" ? like what, let me guess, http://trilema.com/the-goodbye-girl "redecorating" the apartment ?
1861246;1539369519;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun even know that the traditional orc intuition of 'rich ~= receives payola from miami' is such terrible heuristic
1861247;1539369527;mircea_popescu;THERE IS NOTHING EQUALLY IMPORTANT.
1861248;1539369531;asciilifeform;it's approx as solid as 'linux dunwork'
1861249;1539369544;mircea_popescu;we need a snippet of dennis hopper going "MAKE SOME FUCKING MONEY!!!" search and distroy bit
1861250;1539369561;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is notably not what they're saying.
1861251;1539369574;mircea_popescu;what they're saying is, "just because he's rich doesn't mean we're dirt". which -- it does mean, yes.
1861252;1539369575;asciilifeform;lol i suppose nao i gotta actually read what they were sayin'..
1861253;1539369598;mircea_popescu;“A un partido de 182 años no le interesan señores oportunistas que vengan a instalarse." << this "anos" thing is such a big thing in southamerica, too.
1861254;1539369620;asciilifeform;very argentine flavour eh
1861255;1539369636;mircea_popescu;all the shitty shops in argentina were doing the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0 bullshit, "we've been here for 5690845 years." "yes, but you suck" "that is less important"
1861256;1539369658;asciilifeform;'fucking customers with rusty nail since 1810'
1861257;1539369730;mircea_popescu;yoiu know ? bar-disco-club the size of your bathroom. "wtf is wrong with you ?!" "we've been serving customers since 1972!" "yeah well when you finally add up the slices to one whole served customer let me know"
1861258;1539369756;asciilifeform;dunno, ben_vulpes walked me into one in buenosaires that was bigger than my house, and ~empty
1861259;1539369772;mircea_popescu;where ?!
1861260;1539369778;asciilifeform;hey ben_vulpes do you recall where ?
1861261;1539369789;asciilifeform;i bet he does, d00d hung around for months there iirc
1861262;1539369800;mircea_popescu;wait, when was this ?!
1861263;1539369809;asciilifeform;c3 week
1861264;1539369814;asciilifeform;i havent been there since, no
1861265;1539369823;mircea_popescu;and ben_vulpes was around for months ?!
1861266;1539369830;asciilifeform;he had prior expedition
1861267;1539369833;asciilifeform;iirc even brought woman
1861268;1539369835;mircea_popescu;ave1 please return my memory that you stole. you can have yours back kthx.
1861269;1539369855;asciilifeform;iirc he investigated ar for terraforming
1861270;1539369906;asciilifeform;at any rate i dun doubt that the item wouldv'e broken spectacularly if mircea_popescu had torture-tested it
1861271;1539369914;asciilifeform;asciilifeform is not exactly primo disco tester.
1861272;1539369980;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform are you maybe confusing ben_vulpes and mthreat ? who did actually live there yes, but ended up importing gf, jet etc. mostly used local infrastructure for cheap pilot lessons.
1861273;1539369988;asciilifeform;nope, definitely ben_vulpes
1861274;1539370000;mircea_popescu;i oddly have no recollection of this.
1861275;1539370007;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860880 << bwahaha. amplio what, amplio culo << Amplio is the Italian "Samba, sí" party
1861276;1539370007;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 15:35 BingoBoingo: On the other hand Frente Amplio is trying to pass Tranny Reparations while paying for it out of military pensions.
1861277;1539370008;asciilifeform;pretty sure there was thread, even
1861278;1539370029;asciilifeform;!#s from:ben_vulpes buenos aires
1861279;1539370029;a111;8 results for "from:ben_vulpes buenos aires", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aben_vulpes%20buenos%20aires
1861280;1539370034;asciilifeform;hm.
1861281;1539370056;BingoBoingo;Partido Nacional, historically the Partido Blanco, is the rural party
1861282;1539370130;BingoBoingo;But yes, lots of butthurt about what the fellow in question was doing making money and yet... He's their best chance to avoid a coup
1861283;1539370171;mircea_popescu;lotta this "i've been sitting here doing nothing for a long time, therefore i matter" nation of africa bs.
1861284;1539370177;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> and ben_vulpes was around for months ?! << iirc a month-ish, something something wedding
1861285;1539370185;mircea_popescu;doing noting over time == someone will put a collar on you and you'll dance for pennies.
1861286;1539370187;asciilifeform;( anyway if anybody turns up the thread, plox to link, i'm coming up empty )
1861287;1539370216;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc he mentioned 'orc exam' for gurl ~prior~ to marrying it
1861288;1539370230;asciilifeform;'can survive on barren plantoid or not, lessee'
1861289;1539370235;asciilifeform;*planetoid
1861290;1539370329;BingoBoingo;Anyways, presenting quiet threat of military coup is exactly why Uruguay has army answering http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-12#1850048
1861291;1539370329;a111;Logged on 2018-09-12 19:52 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo uruguay has AN ARMY !?
1861292;1539370346;mircea_popescu;i guess so, yeah.
1861293;1539370356;mircea_popescu;anyway, moar venezuela just what the doctor ordered for the miami cunts.
1861294;1539370374;asciilifeform;speaking of which !
1861295;1539370380;mircea_popescu;let them fucking starve, and lick each other's bungholes in lieu of crocheting their own toilet paper, im 100% for it.
1861296;1539370380;asciilifeform;hey BingoBoingo whatever happened to that chix
1861297;1539370424;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: She's still trying to unwind father's estate and extract mother from caracas
1861298;1539370430;asciilifeform;is she crocheting, or lickin', or wat...
1861299;1539370433;mircea_popescu;the obvious and necessary (though unfortunate -- but fuck them for not speaking up at the right time) result of #metoo is daily beatings and gang rape for all campus and highschool dwellers. rotherham / durban style
1861300;1539370433;asciilifeform;hm ok
1861301;1539370472;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo has this a+++ chix
1861302;1539370514;mircea_popescu;nothing wrong with that.
1861303;1539370539;asciilifeform;pretty unusually, even had 'magic' voice, sorta like how i imagined sheherezad did
1861304;1539370547;mircea_popescu;ahaha! nice
1861305;1539370561;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: In the interim her, mother, and small zoo of dogs and cats are in very un-Uruguayo home with six car garage
1861306;1539370569;asciilifeform;rare talent. she's wasted on pulling teeth.
1861307;1539370606;BingoBoingo;Chinese ancestry on mother's side, Polish on father's
1861308;1539370675;asciilifeform;!!up nicoleci
1861309;1539370675;deedbot;nicoleci voiced for 30 minutes.
1861310;1539370692;BingoBoingo;And her girlfriend dearly misses her
1861311;1539370703;asciilifeform;nicoleci: it was me ringing yer phone, btw, sorry'bout the short convo, had to switch terminals
1861312;1539370734;nicoleci;asciilifeform, no worries! i think their was a connection issue because i could barely understand you but mod6 was clear
1861313;1539370737;asciilifeform;nicoleci: yer an international pnoje superstar nao, btw.
1861314;1539370760;asciilifeform;nicoleci: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html see under 'call'
1861315;1539370776;nicoleci;asciilifeform, haha thanks. feel free to call me anytime and yell about the logs summaries
1861316;1539370792;nicoleci;ill check out the link too
1861317;1539370793;mircea_popescu;this has taken an unexpected turn :D
1861318;1539370795;nicoleci;anything else i should know?
1861319;1539370815;asciilifeform;nicoleci: i recommend to learn a bit re tbf and what it is, cuz folx will eventually start asking..
1861320;1539370819;mircea_popescu;nicoleci notrly, if anyone calls asking for infos relay the q's here. other than that...
1861321;1539370824;asciilifeform;also worx
1861322;1539370827;mircea_popescu;over time some kind of standardized form may emerge.
1861323;1539370855;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: prolly will go smoother if she has some of it in l1 cache, imho
1861324;1539370866;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform was there a fixed greeting ? "Hello you have reached The Bitcoin Foundation, how may I help you ?"
1861325;1539370870;nicoleci;ok cool. has anyone been able to ask questions before or is the ability to openly ask questions all new?
1861326;1539370874;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sounds a++
1861327;1539370877;nicoleci;lol
1861328;1539370877;asciilifeform;mod6 what do you think
1861329;1539370879;mircea_popescu;nicoleci all new.
1861330;1539370926;asciilifeform;new, bleedin' edge
1861331;1539370966;mircea_popescu;anyway, the idea is mostly to permit "journa" tards get a documentation point for their shitty markov chain processes of wordsalading ; and i suppose for the internet cucks to wank at.
1861332;1539370971;BingoBoingo;Hopefully with productive bleeding to edge ratio
1861333;1539371000;nicoleci;ok ill use the standardized greeting and potentially take notes.. and contact info if possible
1861334;1539371049;*;mircea_popescu recalls in the early 2010s in romania, varios 0 value local niggers (who thought themselves important, much like the above mentioned Abdala Nobodyonastick) kept calling my secretary and having various brainstop moments on the phone.
1861335;1539371075;mircea_popescu;because totally, if ro anontard is poor then everyone and everything he might see or hear is equally poor anontard.
1861336;1539371132;mod6;<+asciilifeform> mod6 what do you think << yeah!  Sounds good.  I put together a thing, lemme dig it out...
1861337;1539371158;mod6;nicoleci: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IFdDG/?raw=true
1861338;1539371179;BingoBoingo;In further profiles of the MUGA guy https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/quien-es-el-millonario-que-quiere-ser-candidato-blanco-y-debe-millones-al-brou-20181012151830
1861339;1539371181;mod6;Nice talkin' to ya, btw.  I know it was short, but I didn't wanna burn your time or call money.
1861340;1539371227;asciilifeform;mod6: it's a nickel/min, not exactly megabux
1861341;1539371229;nicoleci;mod6, thanks, you too! lol you definitely surprised me, i thought i was dreaming of the channel for a second
1861342;1539371237;BingoBoingo;The nugget there is Mr. MUGA is the fellow keeping Uruguay's legal cannabis market from collapsing
1861343;1539371274;mod6;heheh. :]
1861344;1539371353;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo by his own habit ?
1861345;1539371404;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: By doing his damnest to do the industrial garden thing
1861346;1539371418;mircea_popescu;a ok...
1861347;1539371450;BingoBoingo;Produce product to spec within insaneland limits
1861348;1539371486;BingoBoingo;Megablog on that situation is still baking, should not cross into five figure wordcount
1861349;1539371670;BingoBoingo;But the short of it is he has one of the several firms contracted for filling government dope baggies with product for pharmacy distribution. Manages to actually accomplish that task.
1861350;1539371689;mircea_popescu;five figure no crime
1861351;1539371741;BingoBoingo;This, in a country where milk was recently imported from Brasil and Spain
1861352;1539371760;mircea_popescu;no moar cows in uruguay ?
1861353;1539371773;BingoBoingo;Plenty of cows
1861354;1539371776;mircea_popescu;or let me guess, they all went to college, cutting up paper now.
1861355;1539371792;BingoBoingo;Labor trouble
1861356;1539371819;BingoBoingo;Cows do their job, people who carry on from the cow's work fail to do so
1861357;1539371852;mircea_popescu;sucks
1861358;1539371922;BingoBoingo;Wat do?
1861359;1539372076;BingoBoingo;The socialism has run to the point things are breaking, and... Bahamas doesn't do, Trump does
1861360;1539372126;mircea_popescu;heh.
1861361;1539372149;mircea_popescu;"manspreading" is a thing, femfatting is not a thing, rite rite.
1861362;1539372349;*;asciilifeform recalls mircea_popescu's fetlife picz, and ugh
1861363;1539372389;mircea_popescu;she is literally laughing at you, alf. recalling ? you mean tigdic ?
1861364;1539372410;asciilifeform;there was a 'hamplanet' thing
1861365;1539372422;mod6;meat
1861366;1539372424;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2018/the-lolz-inflation-continues-unabated
1861367;1539372452;mircea_popescu;i know. hence "she is literally laughing at you".
1861368;1539372455;mircea_popescu;LITERALLY.
1861369;1539372462;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> no moar cows in uruguay ? << AH, apparently selling all the cows to china for a while was a problem but they are catching up with the fucking.
1861370;1539372467;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lolwho, the subj ?!
1861371;1539372473;asciilifeform;holyhell, mircea_popescu imported that one ?!
1861372;1539372484;mircea_popescu;I WAS MAKING A SARCASTIC REMARK
1861373;1539372493;mircea_popescu;apparently it has the capacity to whoosh BOTH WAYS over your ehad!
1861374;1539372494;asciilifeform;lol for a sec i almost believed
1861375;1539372500;asciilifeform;at this point i can believe many things
1861376;1539372574;asciilifeform;in related zoological lulz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B53JOuVU7_0 apparently happens
1861377;1539373093;nicoleci;asciilifeform, jesus - bad time to voice myself. maybe the raccoon saw those fetlife pictures.. mp was saying he needs more gross shit on his blog
1861378;1539373550;asciilifeform;i for 1 am fascinated. i dun recall mice, rats, doing this.
1861379;1539373573;asciilifeform;and i've emptied my share of mousetrap.
1861380;1539373633;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861369 << oblig >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-24#641281
1861381;1539373633;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 19:27 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no moar cows in uruguay ? << AH, apparently selling all the cows to china for a while was a problem but they are catching up with the fucking.
1861382;1539373633;a111;Logged on 2014-04-24 22:55 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Мы Америку догнали. По надоям молока, А по мясу мы отстали: Хуй сломался у быка.'
1861383;1539373941;mircea_popescu;lol FOUR YEARS
1861384;1539373955;asciilifeform;eh 54
1861385;1539373959;asciilifeform;was hruschev-era thing
1861386;1539373967;mircea_popescu;i meant the logbridge
1861387;1539373970;asciilifeform;aa
1861388;1539373995;asciilifeform;indeed
1861389;1539377421;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=49 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/09/2018
1861390;1539377624;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/dies-irae/ << Trilema - Dies irae
1861391;1539378528;asciilifeform;meanwhile in upstack lulz: asciilifeform discovered that a good % of prb returns NOTHING to getaddr command. how the fuck do these people connect to peers ? ( i'ma guess some gavintronic-over-https curated nonsense )
1861392;1539380459;mircea_popescu;iirc exact item was laughed at recently-ish (2017 ?)
1861393;1539380685;mircea_popescu;meanwhile here's something for alf : https://image.ibb.co/c0mH19/boypussy.jpg
1861394;1539381097;nicoleci;mircea_popescu, lol
1861395;1539381110;nicoleci;what a gem.
1861396;1539381137;mircea_popescu;seems perfect prison toy.
1861397;1539381186;mircea_popescu;come to think of it, i suppose this would be the pinnacle of perversity : to get titfixed women smuggled into prison for your amusement, but only ever fuck them in the ass.
1861398;1539381201;mircea_popescu;"couldnt you just use the other prisoners then ?!" "eh, what's the subversive fun in that."
1861399;1539381513;asciilifeform;lol wtf is that
1861400;1539381526;asciilifeform;and did they stitch it from the torsos of the dead or wut
1861401;1539381533;mircea_popescu;according to her, that's a boy just like you!
1861402;1539381544;mircea_popescu;no, that's how mammary resection looks like.
1861403;1539381567;asciilifeform;lol my init thought was eunuch
1861404;1539381789;mircea_popescu;sorta, i guess.
1861405;1539384446;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861392 << if mircea_popescu or anybody else recalls the thread, plox to link
1861406;1539384446;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 21:40 mircea_popescu: iirc exact item was laughed at recently-ish (2017 ?)
1861407;1539386783;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Latest update from Venezuala is that none of the 4 cars in the garage work, but the motocicleta does.
1861408;1539386952;hanbot;BingoBoingo: I went to send your WU, but either someone I traded with back in the days of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1817953 that is based in Peru did Something Bad(tm), or else I dunno, your gf? In any case they're doing this entire song & dance about how "there's an alert" and "i gotta talk to a lawyer to justify...it's not clear what or why or to whom", entirely contentless fluff.
1861409;1539386952;a111;Logged on 2018-05-24 13:28 mircea_popescu: in the end, administrative overhead (finding localbitcoinists, talking to them, talking to western union, updating the site objects according to reality in the field etcetera) comes around 2 hours / successful payment.
1861410;1539386988;hanbot;I don't think I'ma bother to debug their nonsense, as far as I'm concerned Western Union was never even marginally useful for any purpose I can think of. But obviously they did carefully write down all the details before not doing any work, so I dunno...advanced warning I guess? Not sure how much the shitpile can be relied on.
1861411;1539386998;hanbot;Anyway, I'm going to get it settled tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
1861412;1539387003;mircea_popescu;lmao did you get banned from fetunion ?
1861413;1539387015;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Thank you for the update
1861414;1539387076;hanbot;mircea_popescu i'm not even sure, their banhammer is like a pile of weird noodles.
1861415;1539387103;mircea_popescu;if only they still had paypal.
1861416;1539387110;hanbot; loller.
1861417;1539387146;mircea_popescu;if this ends up settled by the mailing of a large quantity of alfajores... keks
1861418;1539387191;BingoBoingo;lol
1861419;1539387212;mircea_popescu;hanbot it's not entirely clear, is the idea that you're the terrorist ? or that he is the terrorist ?
1861420;1539387222;BingoBoingo;alfajores, standing cattle, grains, we'll figure something out
1861421;1539387233;asciilifeform;hanbot: mysteriously, 100% of my wu worked (1st one barfed 1ce, rinsed and repeated, then ok for 6mo )
1861422;1539387235;mircea_popescu;western bunion deplatforming pizarro! conspiraci!
1861423;1539387246;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform same barf ?
1861424;1539387261;hanbot;mircea_popescu i think if you ask why, a terrorist is you.
1861425;1539387262;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was nameless eggog
1861426;1539387268;hanbot;seriously though it's not at all clear.
1861427;1539387275;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this shit doesn't actually work in any sense, does it.
1861428;1539387292;asciilifeform;hanbot: one time i caught a wu monkey and squeezed an answer from it, 'corp office forbidden by dhs to say why not worked'
1861429;1539387301;hanbot;lol!
1861430;1539387310;mircea_popescu;which is the dhs ? human services ?
1861431;1539387316;asciilifeform;homeland stupidity
1861432;1539387317;mircea_popescu;highland securities ?
1861433;1539387318;mircea_popescu;ah.
1861434;1539387323;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i said, i sent'em for 6mo in a row with 0 eggog afterwards
1861435;1539387336;asciilifeform;in my experience, after you get 1 working shot, it's cached
1861436;1539387348;mircea_popescu;but i mean... you understand how little sense this makes, neither of this has anything to do... oh, cuz wu is a us thing.
1861437;1539387362;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo do you have some local remitter in that neck of the woods ?
1861438;1539387369;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a us thing. and used 99+% by mexicans et al to send moolah to home goatfuck village
1861439;1539387375;mircea_popescu;ie, cut the usgtards out of loop entirely ?
1861440;1539387392;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it meanwhile dawned on me. why the fuck would wu even be part of this conversation.
1861441;1539387401;asciilifeform;dollars to doughnuts there's a clone that lives in cr and uy ( and not usa )
1861442;1539387410;asciilifeform;that'd work perfectly for hanbot -> bb
1861443;1539387411;mircea_popescu;you'd think. or whatever, latam.
1861444;1539387416;asciilifeform;aha
1861445;1539387419;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: There's a couple local in uruguay services, will look into it
1861446;1539387425;mircea_popescu;that'd be halpful.
1861447;1539387458;BingoBoingo;I dun know if any of them talk outside uruguay
1861448;1539387478;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: wtf would be the point of a wu spampal that only worx ~in~ 1 place
1861449;1539387499;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: So people can stand in line to send payments
1861450;1539387506;BingoBoingo;Fuckers like standing in line
1861451;1539387523;asciilifeform;nao if only they'd get the fuck with the program and invent btc in uy...
1861452;1539387582;asciilifeform;i dare say it's almost like we have screwdriver, but ~nobody's come up with screws yet
1861453;1539387648;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo you mean they're sending money to themselves ?
1861454;1539387648;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol , send to where ? across the street ?!
1861455;1539387675;BingoBoingo;They send money across town, to the interior, to the bill collectors
1861456;1539387683;mircea_popescu;every day we discuss imperial "money" and its working is another day nothing makes any fucking sense at all.
1861457;1539387702;asciilifeform;i dun get it at all, BingoBoingo . they pay $ to send 'across town' ?!
1861458;1539387709;asciilifeform;why not carry it on the tram, lol
1861459;1539387709;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo oh like a "we're too poor to sell tickets/collect bills, so use this mob-like scam ticketfuckery.com" sorta thing ?
1861460;1539387726;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Tram asks too much
1861461;1539387730;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because lots and lots of "companies" can't actually afford counter.
1861462;1539387739;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: AHA
1861463;1539387749;asciilifeform;and they aint invented cheques yet ?
1861464;1539387749;mircea_popescu;so there's this "have specialist counter-provider". most electronics stores in orclands will let you pay your utility bills etc.
1861465;1539387753;BingoBoingo;Except instead of .com it's a storefront/kiosko
1861466;1539387766;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they disinvented cheques because copier is a thing and well... even in the 70s us it was quite iffy.
1861467;1539387767;hanbot;<BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: So people can stand in line to send payments << lol truth
1861468;1539387774;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we have these in usa. they're used by 'cash economy' folx to pay isp etc
1861469;1539387783;mircea_popescu;right.
1861470;1539387788;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> so there's this "have specialist counter-provider". most electronics stores in orclands will let you pay your utility bills etc. << AHA, abitab, RedPagos, etc
1861471;1539387801;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: here EVERYONE uses them
1861472;1539387830;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in principle it's possibly healthy, means they're avoiding banks / electrofiatola
1861473;1539387903;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ok, but not that, specifically remittance. "send your paycheck to wife back in nicaragua" sorta things.
1861474;1539387905;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: good % of classical usg totalitarian bullshit is enforced through 'employer pays into yer bank, which reports erry penny'
1861475;1539387908;mircea_popescu;pestilential enough here.
1861476;1539387937;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and by "good %" we mean all of it -- usg would end tomorrow if employers had to pay in cash.
1861477;1539387958;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: either that or they'd have to return to 18th c. tax collection methods.
1861478;1539387965;asciilifeform;with physical bag man.
1861479;1539388001;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Will explore those options. I suspect there might be something.
1861480;1539388005;mircea_popescu;about as doable as phones returning to 1950s state of the art. with maidens and spokes.
1861481;1539388024;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reportedly ru mil still using maidens-with-spokes.
1861482;1539388032;asciilifeform;at least for some % of callz
1861483;1539388044;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo if found it's good to have from a purely http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846382 exercise ; but anyway, tis getting settled.
1861484;1539388044;a111;Logged on 2018-09-01 00:38 mod6: mircea_popescu does have a point re 'freedom of navigation' tho.  but ya, if it doesn't matter to BingoBoingo, I'm game.
1861485;1539388073;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform relatively easier to get the few maidens nobody wants to fuck than to press into service the few maidens everyone wants to fuck.
1861486;1539388099;asciilifeform;i'm looking at my notes, and seems like erry wu i ever sent ( and i sent a good coupla dozen ) took 2 shots (per new addressee)
1861487;1539388110;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Definitely.
1861488;1539388141;asciilifeform;i dunno what cockroaches are in the pertinent heads... 'terrorist will never try 2x' ? nfi
1861489;1539388162;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform maybe they had to get the right agents at teh right office!
1861490;1539388173;asciilifeform;or to reboot ms excel. whoknows
1861491;1539388213;asciilifeform;wu even spams me nao. in spanish, no less. 'wai you no send lately' approx
1861492;1539388314;asciilifeform;oh i should note, had to get 'account' for it to work
1861493;1539388325;asciilifeform;sending a 1shot never worked , from here
1861494;1539388350;mircea_popescu;wait, accounts ?!
1861495;1539388369;mircea_popescu;doesnt' this literally defeat the whole purpose of the whole thing ?
1861496;1539388378;mircea_popescu;i thought i was being funny with the paypal throwaway.
1861497;1539388381;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859416
1861498;1539388381;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 15:57 mircea_popescu: pretty much all the empire shit works by this "only way to get an x is to link an x' to an y' to the x" device. by now it's actually usable as an empire-detecting heuristic.
1861499;1539388419;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but i mean isn't the point of this whole wu business that you just walk into an office and send someone a few benjies ?
1861500;1539388420;asciilifeform;it only started to work once i fed it a name, addr, and cc.
1861501;1539388429;mircea_popescu;heh ok.
1861502;1539388429;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: usg.verboten, apparently
1861503;1539388439;mircea_popescu;im behind the times.
1861504;1539388459;asciilifeform;'benjie in, benjie out' is only at hawaladar counter.
1861505;1539388459;mircea_popescu;is eating still permitted in the usgulag, or also meanwhile verboten ?
1861506;1539388479;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: permitted for nao, but ~1000% 'tax' if you want actual food...
1861507;1539388501;asciilifeform;( this is not seekrit, if you want actual phood in usa, you pay like on space station )
1861508;1539388502;mircea_popescu;ein anderes, why not.
1861509;1539388544;asciilifeform;the astonishing bit imho is that they carry this nonsense over to e.g. cr office.
1861510;1539388553;asciilifeform;but i suppose consistent.
1861511;1539388567;mircea_popescu;the drug trade should wake up to the idiocy, start a remittance business
1861512;1539388574;mircea_popescu;make more than from coke in a few short years.
1861513;1539388601;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, if local morons still act as if they lived in usg zone, notwithstanding they make 5k a year or so...
1861514;1539388618;asciilifeform;anybody with pile of benjie could do it right nao, simply eat/shit btc on site. but for some reason these folx allergic to btc ? i haven't the faintest idea
1861515;1539388686;mircea_popescu;i expect bulk of the nonsense is still guy runs away to work, wants to send dough back to wife.
1861516;1539388709;mircea_popescu;gotta start firebombing wu "offices" / shooting anyone trying to work there in the head to interdict their sapping of this market.
1861517;1539388712;mircea_popescu;then it'll work.
1861518;1539388737;mircea_popescu;the fundamental problem with "we'll permit cattle to have their usg.thing and we'll do the right thing" is that why exactly is usg getting the cheap and easy fruit ?
1861519;1539388784;mircea_popescu;no such free lunch, let ustards and ustard-wannabes pay for gas for armorer car to go from embassy to wu and back. like teh arabs do it.
1861520;1539388794;asciilifeform;the hilarity is that the 'terrorists' ( goat-flavoured orcs ) have 0 prob with the idjicy, they have their hawala
1861521;1539388799;asciilifeform;in-wot orc btc.
1861522;1539388808;asciilifeform;goin' strong for 1000+yrs nao
1861523;1539388823;mircea_popescu;im curious what'll be the Mocky reports on that.
1861524;1539388848;asciilifeform;i'll be at least slightly surprised if he manages to penetrate subj; but i like good surprises
1861525;1539388879;mircea_popescu;why ?
1861526;1539388883;mircea_popescu;either it works or it doesn't.
1861527;1539388894;asciilifeform;as i understand, it worx b/c tight wot
1861528;1539388895;mircea_popescu;if it works it must work in the manner of things working.
1861529;1539388901;asciilifeform;rather than 'allcomer'
1861530;1539388906;mircea_popescu;mayhap.
1861531;1539388941;asciilifeform;usg hunts hawaladars as if they were ebola sprayers . but they still live.
1861532;1539388997;mircea_popescu;what, in qatar ?!
1861533;1539389100;asciilifeform;doubtful. but wherever the reich tendrils reach.
1861534;1539389114;BingoBoingo;If USG had that kind of pull in Qatar why nuclear waste trenches at the border?
1861535;1539389116;asciilifeform;( europistan, asian shitholes, etc )
1861536;1539389147;asciilifeform;i still dun fully grasp the supposed usg feud with qatar -- iirc the latter sank couple $B into usg's 'moderate rebels'
1861537;1539389160;mircea_popescu;can't say i do either.
1861538;1539389172;mircea_popescu;possibly infantile temper tantrum by whatever nuland cunt they have now.
1861539;1539389177;asciilifeform;gotta be
1861540;1539389204;asciilifeform;but to naked eye entirely inexplicable, qatar is possibly 1st or 2nd biggest sponsor of usg idjicy in the goatfuck deserts
1861541;1539389219;mircea_popescu;or was at any rate.
1861542;1539389237;asciilifeform;for all i know, still is, the gears grind slowly
1861543;1539389367;mircea_popescu;anyway, the problem is that not enough bitchslapping of stupid cunts who imagine "their oppinions on #ows" or w/e are sought or even possible as an abstract object. THAT is the true usg, the pile of moron dreamers.
1861544;1539389415;asciilifeform;dunno, they could all die of pox tonight and i suspect the lizards would shrug, less overhead
1861545;1539389426;asciilifeform;i dun grasp how 'dreamers' enable dhs etc
1861546;1539389436;asciilifeform;they sum to ~0 as tax base, and do ~nuffin
1861547;1539389476;BingoBoingo;The dreamers fuel the their democracy fictional mandate
1861548;1539389534;asciilifeform;sure, but it's a theatrical production, with roughly same physical impact as footballism
1861549;1539389565;asciilifeform;nobody voted for dhs, dea, etc. yet there they are.
1861550;1539389714;asciilifeform;if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
1861551;1539389781;asciilifeform;y'know, employed folx, who don't 'opinionate at #ows' or pollute fetlife or etc.
1861552;1539389859;asciilifeform;kinda why i wanted to get the fuck out since long before tmsr. i'm buying hitler's lunch and it's stomach-turning.
1861553;1539389972;asciilifeform;iirc mod6 , ben_vulpes , trinque , admitted to similar thought, in l0gz.
1861554;1539390019;BingoBoingo;Kinda how I ended up in the Home Despot garden department before taking off to Uruguay.
1861555;1539390428;asciilifeform;upstack, i suspect mircea_popescu has the answ to the riddle of why bitcoin hasn't killed wu et al -- orcs still perceive having the option not to use btc
1861556;1539390446;asciilifeform;the 'hallucinated choice'(tm)(r) thing
1861557;1539390526;asciilifeform;it's mindboggling, all sorts of folx whom seemingly 'god himself made for btc', e.g. malware racket, still use spampals/dwollas/etc as if year were 2008
1861558;1539390561;asciilifeform;and they're regularly gassed, wherever, thailand or pretty much any turd world shithole, usg dun even have to break a sweat
1861559;1539390574;asciilifeform;all they gotta do is to follow the spampal usd etc
1861560;1539390640;asciilifeform;part of the puzzler i suspect lies in the continued operation of the waterfall
1861561;1539390658;asciilifeform;idjit orcs would rather die, apparently, than risk exch rate swing
1861562;1539390784;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu had an old piece where mentioned orcs all over saving in usd, hanging on to erry benjie like it were a shard of the trooo cross. ~that~ is 1 of the elephants on which usg stands.
1861563;1539390817;asciilifeform;if they started saving in btc instead, there'd be 'hawaladar' to fill their appetite on erry street corner, from sahara to patagonia
1861564;1539390826;asciilifeform;but apparently no dice.
1861565;1539390834;BingoBoingo;http://trilema.com/la-florida-and-other-places
1861566;1539390841;asciilifeform;yes!
1861567;1539390920;asciilifeform;naturally cattle cannot operate a btctron. they'd have to delegate it to an actual person. but even ~these~ , in orcistan, seem to prefer to stash up usd.
1861568;1539390928;asciilifeform;...because dream of miami ? i've nfi.
1861569;1539391020;asciilifeform;fwiw it appears that BingoBoingo presently houses the ONLY actual btc noadz in BingoBoingostan... per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859945
1861570;1539391020;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 01:22 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ltRHd << per same, of the 4 public noadez in BingoBoingostan, 3 are in pizarro
1861571;1539391031;asciilifeform;so not much surprise that there aint a lively otc market.
1861572;1539391053;BingoBoingo;trinque: has one here
1861573;1539391061;asciilifeform;i meant the rack as a whole
1861574;1539391081;BingoBoingo;Ah
1861575;1539391200;asciilifeform;returning upstack to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861511 , the fact that they haven't, is imho serious support for asciilifeform's traditional hypothesis of the dope folx being ~symbionts~ of usg , rather than antagonists
1861576;1539391200;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 23:56 mircea_popescu: the drug trade should wake up to the idiocy, start a remittance business
1861577;1539391293;asciilifeform;without usg's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1817099 thing, there's be as much 'dope cartel' as there is aspirin cartel.
1861578;1539391293;a111;Logged on 2018-05-22 23:35 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816718 << hah, i originally watched it for the same reason, and the only thing i even remember is burroughs sitting in the chair, and spitting the "narcotics" prediction in his famous squeaky voice
1861579;1539391365;asciilifeform;the dope people, by all indications, ~luvvv~ usd. and none of the 'remittance policing' exists at any level that'd bother'em.
1861580;1539391616;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1861581;1539392215;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861550 << the confessional fervor of this fellow...
1861582;1539392215;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 00:15 asciilifeform: if anyffing, it's idjits like asciilifeform who are the worst , who buy for usg 2-3 'sidewinders' erry yr and don't know how to stop
1861583;1539392219;mircea_popescu;"worst sinner is i!"
1861584;1539392295;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in "i don't think you know what those words mean", "I’m a geek person and I’m kinda nerd as well. I’m studying in human sciences and I’m a dancer. Also, I'm a young mom of a sweet lil girl who is 2 years old! :3"
1861585;1539392316;mircea_popescu;chick's 21, with a 3 yo and she thinks she's anything but barefoot and pregnant indian camp follower.
1861586;1539394237;trinque;I figure the sin's lazily evaluated; did you liberate some cash from usg and thus liberate your own arse, or not.
1861587;1539394362;mircea_popescu;in other wtf : does https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us! redirect to some weird website for anyone ? because wtf is going on here, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us works as expected.
1861588;1539394383;trinque;yep, userstyles.org
1861589;1539394386;trinque;nfi
1861590;1539394550;mircea_popescu;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KgnGR/?raw=true << full barfola.
1861591;1539394561;mircea_popescu;apparently the duckduckgo site itself is pwned ?
1861592;1539394596;mircea_popescu;ie, it returns a redirect from the correct ip (at least i see duckduckgo.com.		403	IN	A	23.21.193.169 here ?)
1861593;1539394799;mircea_popescu;obscure spamdomain from liuke... the 2000s.
1861594;1539394910;phf;mircea_popescu: http://duckduckgo.com/bang
1861595;1539394971;mircea_popescu;but why does it do it for q=us! ? shouldn't it be q=!us then ?
1861596;1539394998;mircea_popescu;nfi what fucking "geek roots", anyway. but w/e.
1861597;1539394999;phf;mircea_popescu: it seems like either end works, i sometimes use !g and g! also works
1861598;1539395014;mircea_popescu;i'm not at all pleased with this convenience.
1861599;1539395029;mircea_popescu;and it's about as geek as your average yuppie, also!
1861600;1539395069;mircea_popescu;da fuck, english pronoun followed by exclamation point is a redirect because "greek roots" ? nonsense!
1861601;1539395765;phf;i just noticed that the geek roots thing links to #!, quite idiotic
1861602;1539399477;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861590 << what curl args to replicate this ?
1861603;1539399477;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 01:35 mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KgnGR/?raw=true << full barfola.
1861604;1539399492;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform curl --trace filename
1861605;1539399498;mircea_popescu;i find it extremely useful, btw.
1861606;1539399527;mircea_popescu;large part of why wget is a lulz to me, like water pistol.
1861607;1539399552;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oXo6i/?raw=true << mine
1861608;1539399557;asciilifeform;loox to be largely same as mircea_popescu's
1861609;1539399566;asciilifeform;tbf i have nfi what it looked like yesterday or prior
1861610;1539399601;mircea_popescu;um. no, actually, yours looks like legit page, not redirect.
1861611;1539399616;mircea_popescu;was this "https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us!" ?!
1861612;1539399617;asciilifeform;lol i only read as far as the cert
1861613;1539399625;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nope, plain url
1861614;1539399631;mircea_popescu;ah, no that specifically.
1861615;1539399731;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0t1Fp/?raw=true << with that url.
1861616;1539399747;asciilifeform;( why curl refuses to put the url in the debug dump, is mystery to me )
1861617;1539399790;asciilifeform;btw i get diff ip on erry shot
1861618;1539399795;asciilifeform;i think they use a balancer thing
1861619;1539399828;mircea_popescu;um. so what, "bangs" only work for me ?
1861620;1539399838;asciilifeform;loox like.
1861621;1539399867;mircea_popescu;such bullshit...
1861622;1539399917;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Q0xYA/?raw=true << via pizarro
1861623;1539400040;asciilifeform;btw lulzily, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=us! loaded via www browser -- redirects to https://userstyles.org/
1861624;1539400045;asciilifeform;but loox like it's done via jsolade
1861625;1539400087;asciilifeform;so indeed, 'bangs' -- work here. just not from curl's pov.
1861626;1539400170;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ftr asciilifeform doesn't see ddg as somehow less unsavoury than google et al. if it were baked by honest folx it wouldn't https.
1861627;1539400202;asciilifeform;thing has slightly, barely measurably, less censored outputs, but that's pretty much it
1861628;1539400211;asciilifeform;approx on par with e.g. 'yandex'.
1861629;1539400242;phf;asciilifeform: i assume this is part of "block all google on ip level" program
1861630;1539400302;asciilifeform;doomed, incidentally, approach -- they own (and undocumentedly) a good chunk of ipv4
1861631;1539400352;mircea_popescu;well, i used to think that maybe ; but this level of utterly idiotic bs is convincing me otherwise.
1861632;1539400365;mircea_popescu;in fairness, web search accounts for roughly 0% of my web use anyway, so...
1861633;1539400373;asciilifeform;i strongly suspect that ddg is exactly 'hushmail'
1861634;1539400390;mircea_popescu;i'll dump "search engine" as a category, same bit bucket "email" as a concept went, np.
1861635;1539400392;asciilifeform;i.e. 'classy' usg honeypot for 'we are 133337 and h8t3 google'
1861636;1539400486;*;asciilifeform uses searchtrons perhaps 98% for eggog strings, 1% for electronic parts purchase, and 1% remain
1861637;1539400524;mircea_popescu;i generally use for fidning trilema articles when too lazy to bring up mysql terminal.
1861638;1539400551;asciilifeform;btw was there particular reason mircea_popescu never exposed wp search box on his www ? ( cpu miser ? )
1861639;1539400563;mircea_popescu;they're marginally less aggravation in "oh, never heard of that page" than they're productive in "well, dun have to unlock key"
1861640;1539400579;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cuz i have one in mysqld ?
1861641;1539400605;asciilifeform;rright, but why not keep it publicly. asciilifeform for instance does.
1861642;1539400617;asciilifeform;that way other folx also can search trilema without feeding the beast.
1861643;1539400622;mircea_popescu;all searches take 1-2s, you realise. course i do the luxurious LIKE "%x%" format.
1861644;1539400690;asciilifeform;until recently i also 'why should phuctor have search, i can search in postgres console'
1861645;1539400762;asciilifeform;i also get the added pheature of seeing ~what~ folx search for
1861646;1539400774;asciilifeform;whereas back when they were stuck massaging google, didn't
1861647;1539400798;asciilifeform;( google in particular no longer reliably forwards keywords in refer hdr )
1861648;1539400812;mircea_popescu;i'd just get 5bn bots "searching" for the usual crap.
1861649;1539400813;phf;asciilifeform: correct approach is to download entire trilema and index it locally. folks who don't bother to do that have no business searching it :>
1861650;1539400818;mircea_popescu;^
1861651;1539400835;mircea_popescu;i do not even kid, the 5bn figure is ~accurate.
1861652;1539400840;asciilifeform;phf: lol, rsync
1861653;1539400848;asciilifeform;emerge --update trilema
1861654;1539400858;mircea_popescu;lmao
1861655;1539400877;asciilifeform;laff, but given cuntoo, it ~could~
1861656;1539400885;mircea_popescu;you know, the future may even be the right move.
1861657;1539400910;mircea_popescu;but anyway, i believe "local search box" is utterly wrong cut.
1861658;1539400925;mircea_popescu;sorta like "bag of yes/no peas".
1861659;1539400942;asciilifeform;i search my www, small as it is, surprisingly often. and i like that i neither have to use google or unsheath the launch codes, to do it.
1861660;1539400948;asciilifeform;and can see what others searched in it.
1861661;1539400973;mircea_popescu;search, esp fulltext search, gets very expensive with larger datasets.
1861662;1539400982;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: phuctor goes in <1s
1861663;1539400991;asciilifeform;across ~40GB .
1861664;1539400998;asciilifeform;not so expensive.
1861665;1539401028;mircea_popescu;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/search?q=cuckoo << nb even.
1861666;1539401036;asciilifeform;trick lies in indices, so that 40G dun get walked erry time, elementarily
1861667;1539401093;mircea_popescu;yes, but i think your 40gb figure is misleading.
1861668;1539401100;mircea_popescu;ie, you have very many very short records.
1861669;1539401139;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i used a 'trigraph' index, they're O(~n log n) , if yer interested.
1861670;1539401146;asciilifeform;scales pretty well.
1861671;1539401161;asciilifeform;and yes they're short, but there's ~10mil of'em .
1861672;1539401185;asciilifeform;err, 100mil
1861673;1539401196;mircea_popescu;but trilema has the converse problem : there's ks of article, from 2kb to 200kb or so.
1861674;1539401206;asciilifeform;worx just as well
1861675;1539401213;mircea_popescu;hm. where's this trigraph thing ?
1861676;1539401222;asciilifeform;https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/pgtrgm.html for the interested.
1861677;1539401234;asciilifeform;i dunno what is the mysql equiv. presently
1861678;1539401237;asciilifeform;there gotta be one
1861679;1539401335;mircea_popescu;how do you mean "works just as well" ? The pg_trgm module provides functions and operators for determining the similarity of ASCII alphanumeric text based on trigram matching, as well as index operator classes that support fast searching for similar strings. << seems eminently based on birthday problem, "how many different permutations of 60 characters can there be"
1861680;1539401418;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: takes yer search string, and cuts it into trigraphs, e.g. 'trigraph' -> 'tri':1 , 'rig':1 , 'igr':1, 'gra':1, 'aph':1
1861681;1539401430;asciilifeform;and matches these up with similarly processed indexed items
1861682;1539401447;asciilifeform;it's barbaric but seems to work great.
1861683;1539401464;asciilifeform;'60s, iirc, algo.
1861684;1539401470;mircea_popescu;no, i understand the concept ; what i don't understand is why you think this works well for wildly varied size records.
1861685;1539401487;asciilifeform;cuz size dun matter so much
1861686;1539401496;mircea_popescu;ie, what do you think is the trigram index of a 200kb file ?
1861687;1539401560;mircea_popescu;i guess there's no way out of implementing some inverse-index or i guess ngram really, to test this out. mebbe my intuition is entirely off
1861688;1539401570;mircea_popescu;but it'd seem the index would scale on an exponential of record size
1861689;1539401585;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they're stored sparsely, loox like
1861690;1539401594;mircea_popescu;hm.
1861691;1539401603;asciilifeform;so you dun blow 127**3 / 8 == 256kB on ea. row
1861692;1539401607;asciilifeform;which you otherwise would
1861693;1539401612;mircea_popescu;you know ?
1861694;1539401618;asciilifeform;then thing loox for rows that ~could~ contain yer string
1861695;1539401622;asciilifeform;and then binarysearchates'em
1861696;1539401627;asciilifeform;simple enuff, on paper.
1861697;1539401664;*;asciilifeform brb
1861698;1539401693;mircea_popescu;well, i guess the right answer to your q is that i'm way too lazy to put the work into it ? i guess simplest approach would be to convert a set of trilema records to postgres, and try your pg_trgm thing on it.
1861699;1539401857;mircea_popescu;in other lulz https://dlnseo.org/content/flpb#sll << the languages usg fears.
1861700;1539401867;mircea_popescu;surprisingly short list.
1861701;1539403186;asciilifeform;'Military Services pay approximately $7M in FLPB to 27,000 Active Duty (24,000) and Reserve Component (3,000) Service members...' << lol!! what, ~2 benjies ea.?!
1861702;1539403193;asciilifeform;mega-'bonus'
1861703;1539403249;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i happen to know the 'logic', btw, it aint even a 'what countries pentagon plans for war', but dumb bean counter 'whom fewest translators for'
1861704;1539403267;asciilifeform;listed in alphabetical order.
1861705;1539404358;mircea_popescu;desi ?! wtf.
1861706;1539404396;asciilifeform;btw they mostly use orc translators in the field. but i suspect mircea_popescu knew this.
1861707;1539404517;asciilifeform;( and they also issue, or at least used to, little boxen with point-and-grunt ui with eng buttons and speaker to bark orders in vein of 'hande hoch!' on other end )
1861708;1539404519;mircea_popescu;srsly, the diff between dari and farsi is not unlike the difference between czech and "slovak"
1861709;1539404560;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: read full list an' weep, they have ukr, old norse, ecclesiastical latin, koine greek...
1861710;1539404569;asciilifeform;esperanto.
1861711;1539404576;mircea_popescu;for all the good it does 'em...
1861712;1539404641;*;asciilifeform pictures daily life of old norse translator in us army 
1861713;1539404726;mircea_popescu;all these languages, slovene, serbian, croatian, etceterian...
1861714;1539404805;asciilifeform;hey, gotta pay diploma'd translator, to convert between kakobrekla and josef brosz tito...
1861715;1539404830;asciilifeform;it's a racke^H^Hliving...
1861716;1539404839;mircea_popescu;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe << check out the fucking lulz.
1861717;1539405699;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in lulz nobody likely gives a shit about : romania apparently has some natgas in its chunk of black sea shelf ; usg wants to steal this ; ro senate wrote a law for them ; ro commons rejected it, because this one guy (liviu dragnea) said so. his majority collapsed because "hungarian" miniparty changed its mind overnight (ie, transparently got bought out) and well... guess who is "accused" of supposedly having FORCED
1861718;1539405700;mircea_popescu;some random institution to employ a coupla gals that "weren't really working there".
1861719;1539405714;mircea_popescu;needless to say at this rate ima have rick perry anally raped on youtube.
1861720;1539406899;*;mod6 just got back from playing hockey, for the first time in nearly a decade.
1861721;1539406905;mod6;(to the dismay of my lungs)
1861722;1539406928;mod6;I did score a goal though.  (Should have had three if I wasn't such an out of shape pussy.)
1861723;1539406940;mod6;So #winning, I think.
1861724;1539406950;*;mod6 reads l0gz
1861725;1539407001;mod6;mmm. about to eat one of these cheddarworsts from the ukr place, and some ribs I smoked.
1861726;1539407221;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> if this ends up settled by the mailing of a large quantity of alfajores... keks << hahah.
1861727;1539407225;mod6;banks, who needs 'em.
1861728;1539407724;mod6;it's like this cocksuckers hate money or something
1861729;1539407729;mod6;*these
1861730;1539407752;mod6;if you got the money, come on with it then!
1861731;1539407768;mod6;don't these dorks listen to AC/DC?  Money Talks, BS Walks.
1861732;1539407889;mod6;usg has no money.  all they got is BS.
1861733;1539408540;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> make more than from coke in a few short years. << amen
1861734;1539408721;mircea_popescu;i see mod6 is in high spirits :)
1861735;1539408790;mod6;:]
1861736;1539409307;mod6;<+asciilifeform> upstack, i suspect mircea_popescu has the answ to the riddle of why bitcoin hasn't killed wu et al -- orcs still perceive having the option not to use btc << They have the option, ~for now~.  We know, that the whole world currently runs on "magic money", currently.  However, my hunch is that "magic money" and worlds built on fraud can not live for forever.  They can last a long time, however
1861737;1539409313;mod6;, and one can go broke betting against the irrationality of the whole thing.  But when one-day comes, and the tide goes out, only hard assets will remain.  They'll either take the Republic's BTC or eat tree bark like 1777.
1861738;1539409376;mircea_popescu;for the record i had some treebark earlier.
1861739;1539409380;mircea_popescu;fucking delicious
1861740;1539409383;mircea_popescu;cinnamon!
1861741;1539409390;mod6;haha
1861742;1539409391;mod6;ahhhhh
1861743;1539409433;mod6;i like a bit of cinnamon from time to time too, typically in a warm drink
1861744;1539409461;mircea_popescu;coffee, as the case may be.
1861745;1539409490;mod6;*nod* sometimes people throw them into a warm brandy drink. "hot tadi?" I think they're called.
1861746;1539409518;mircea_popescu;aha
1861747;1539409524;mod6;I would pay for ring side seats to watch the hamptons fist fight over who gets to eat the bark off the shitty cottonwood trees that day though.
1861748;1539409537;mod6;probably could make a mint on selling tickets to those events.
1861749;1539409676;mircea_popescu;but selling to whom
1861750;1539409727;mod6;lol, fair point.
1861751;1539409731;mod6;me, i guess.
1861752;1539409788;mod6;Thinking of 'hot toddy' drinks makes me think of Euchre.
1861753;1539409794;mod6;You ever play?
1861754;1539409856;mircea_popescu;well, i usually play bridge.
1861755;1539409873;mircea_popescu;euchre not so difficult, so sometimes indulge with a girl or something. but rarely.
1861756;1539409916;mod6;*nod* yah, i hardly remember how to play.  i remember it being kinda fun though, that and spades.
1861757;1539409922;mod6;i've never learned bridge.
1861758;1539409949;mircea_popescu;kinda works best in a full complement, need 4 people.
1861759;1539410011;mod6;one of these days I'll have to try to learn the game.
1861760;1539410224;mod6;Well Sir, I'm thoroughly exausted. :]  I better catch some zzz's.  I bid you, Good Evening.
1861761;1539410454;mircea_popescu;nn
1861762;1539414756;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859696 << just caught this. i don't get it, should we replace your name with nicole's nao also?
1861763;1539414756;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 23:37 mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859589 << I didn't send, no.  Should I replace Hanna's name in there and the phone number?
1861764;1539414791;mircea_popescu;lol
1861765;1539414859;hanbot;anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
1861766;1539415050;mircea_popescu;incidentally, anyone happens to have Outwitting Dad ? Hollywood Party ? (1930s, oliver hardy films. )
1861767;1539416078;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=50 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/10/2018
1861768;1539418512;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=51 << Bimbo.Club - Costa Rica, the ultimate tease.
1861769;1539418704;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861524 >> if I manage to penetrate subj, I'll report
1861770;1539418704;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 00:00 asciilifeform: i'll be at least slightly surprised if he manages to penetrate subj; but i like good surprises
1861771;1539418720;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861536 >> also sunk $B into building largest military base in the region for usg. 'feud' seems like public theatre to my noob eyes. US is well respected here in contrast to gulf state back-turners.
1861772;1539418720;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 00:05 asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp the supposed usg feud with qatar -- iirc the latter sank couple $B into usg's 'moderate rebels'
1861773;1539418750;mircea_popescu;Mocky yes, a full report on this hawala business very valued accomplishment.
1861774;1539419126;Mocky;I met yesterday with a chick who does the social media and photography for a local magazine. She's not a local but seems to have a good set of connections and eager to help me out.
1861775;1539419365;Mocky;She showed me the Souq Waqif, a large "street market" 2 city blocks in size, about half indoors (although the indoor part looks like narrow streets with a roof) it's like the cultural center for Qataris. various musical 'bands' playing traditional drum music
1861776;1539419539;Mocky;bought me dinner at an iraqi restaurant. seems like computer security is a huge thing here. even small companies like her magazine get 'cyber threats' at least weekly. bigger companies much more so. a lot of website and network hacking goes on.
1861777;1539419749;mircea_popescu;nb.
1861778;1539420133;Mocky;BingoBoingo, this is a short chick, btw, who walks around here alone on a daily basis, with a backpack for 6 years, never gets bothered
1861779;1539420229;Mocky;she says that ultimately every foreigner has a single named Qatari sponsor (typically company part-owner) who has the power to kick you out anytime and who gets hassled if you cause trouble
1861780;1539420276;Mocky;except for tourists who are very limited in stay duration
1861781;1539420628;Mocky;local Qatari men are shoe-ins for high level company / agency / gov jobs and often inherit a lot of wealth, and only ~100k of them so they aren't exactly drawn to street crimes
1861782;1539420825;mircea_popescu;does she know any of these ?
1861783;1539421102;Mocky;she didn't say so and I didn't ask her directly, but I will. She seems like a good asset for making further media contacts and cultural info (topic of magazine) and not direct contact to locals
1861784;1539421268;mircea_popescu;your show, i'm just watching it unfold!
1861785;1539421290;mircea_popescu;but anyway, i never heard of theft in muslim lands, in the general speaking.
1861786;1539421318;mircea_popescu;they managed to erradicate that much like the us managed to erradicate manhood : direct amputation.
1861787;1539421605;Mocky;the insect situation here hard to fathom. they just about don't have any. i saw a moth here on the first day, very small. and another moth outside last night, tiny.
1861788;1539421677;Mocky;outside last night in the city, stones throw from the bay, staring up at street lights during the interminable wait at crosswalks, not a single bug circling street lights, not a spider web
1861789;1539421706;mircea_popescu;dry.
1861790;1539421732;mircea_popescu;bugs need water, their principal design problem is that they have to be permeable for respiration, which results in water loss.
1861791;1539421746;mircea_popescu;at the time they were released, this was a good tradeoff. meanwhile the earth aged.
1861792;1539421849;Mocky;street food vendors, outdoor diners all safe from flying pests
1861793;1539422064;Mocky;and the horde of scrawny indian dudes with their skinny jeans, even the fat ones still have scrawny legs and wear skinny jeans
1861794;1539422147;mircea_popescu;that must be some sight.
1861795;1539422227;Mocky;these are the ones out on the weekend looking for night life downtown
1861796;1539422256;Mocky;in-group fashion trends, evidently
1861797;1539422294;mircea_popescu;your depeche mode style wil lcertainly fit right in :D
1861798;1539422336;Mocky;lol
1861799;1539422369;Mocky;yeah i better tone down the eye makeup
1861800;1539436163;ave1;diana_coman, I now have a good version of the crc32 bitwise constant time algo, but I ran out of time for today, so eta probably tomorrow.
1861801;1539439821;diana_coman;ave1, that sounds good
1861802;1539442597;diana_coman;does anyone recognise 173.198.225.102?
1861803;1539442745;asciilifeform;diana_coman: btc noad ? never connected to zoolag ( at least not in past month )
1861804;1539442781;asciilifeform;and dun seem to be a noad at all, for that matter
1861805;1539442789;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no, weird, single UDP message received from it by the UY node during tests
1861806;1539442795;asciilifeform;aah interesting
1861807;1539442803;asciilifeform;prolly shitware
1861808;1539442812;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plox to post the bytes ?
1861809;1539442818;asciilifeform;pretty curious what it said
1861810;1539442825;diana_coman;possibly, no idea really; but what, they just send random udp stuff on all ports?
1861811;1539442839;asciilifeform;diana_coman: they probe for peers
1861812;1539442873;diana_coman;apparently I'll have to get all those unexpected messages in some readable format and post them, myeah
1861813;1539442877;asciilifeform;( there could even exist something, somewhere, exploitable via magic packet )
1861814;1539442885;asciilifeform;diana_coman: would be pretty neat imho
1861815;1539442932;diana_coman;possibly; that would be my guess, some sort of magic packet
1861816;1539442950;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i suspect that most likely it was part of a ddos, and the forged return address happened to match yours
1861817;1539442959;asciilifeform;so victim/amplifier 'answered'
1861818;1539442968;diana_coman;ah, can be
1861819;1539443000;diana_coman;seems to be some address in the US and "corporate" fwiw
1861820;1539443021;diana_coman;anyways, will add to pile of weird for now and maybe later I get to look at it more
1861821;1539443022;asciilifeform;if it was indeed this, then subj ip is the victim
1861822;1539443091;asciilifeform;SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3 is all he's got running there, tho
1861823;1539443104;asciilifeform;so prolly not ddos subject...
1861824;1539443281;asciilifeform;let's do a small gedankenexperiment, btw: let's suppose a botnet using pure udp for signals (say, signed packet.) can it find peers by random probe ? answer is -- very quickly:
1861825;1539443347;asciilifeform;say it has 50,000 nodes. then 2**32 / 50000 =~ 85899 packets sent at random is all that it needs to find a peer and rejoin its net.
1861826;1539443363;asciilifeform;this of course presumes that they all listen on 1 port; if not , then multiply the above by the # of ports in use.
1861827;1539443411;asciilifeform;in the former case, it only needs to send 1 per second, to find a peer within 24 hours.
1861828;1539443464;asciilifeform;at any rate no intelligently-written piece of shitware really needs a central control box, it merely gotta shoot at random, and will find its fellows.
1861829;1539443522;asciilifeform;( and yes reality is a bit moar complicated, most bots are behind nat and won't be immediately reachable like this. but it is not impossible to picture a net with say 10,000 udp-reachable nodes . )
1861830;1539443595;asciilifeform;the ~86k packets is a worst-case avg, obviously, per 'birthday theorem' it will succeed almost certainly sooner
1861831;1539443835;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in the lulz collectors, http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2018-10-13#441696
1861832;1539444160;asciilifeform;incidentally, i must add that if the bots are trooly pwned, and receiver lives in kernel ( or iron... ) then 'ports' dun matter at all, receiver can listen to erry packet sent its way .
1861833;1539444285;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861545 << same way unwashed idiots enable plague. but i mean, EXACT same way. they're the god of the gaps as far as evil is concerned.
1861834;1539444285;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 00:10 asciilifeform: i dun grasp how 'dreamers' enable dhs etc
1861835;1539444321;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was half-expecting you'd mention unvaccinated BingoBoingostani and their mumps. but this also worx, i suppose
1861836;1539444356;mircea_popescu;it seems, to some high analysis, that the workings of bacillum pestis works entirely independently of Joe Moron, who keeps "accidentally" falling into his own dung.
1861837;1539444358;mircea_popescu;nevertheless...
1861838;1539444405;mircea_popescu;the ~reason~ y pestis exists is the long line of joe moron, and his mulae & stramulae.
1861839;1539444414;asciilifeform;erry good plague has 'reservoirs' also, some species where it lives without killing host
1861840;1539444435;mircea_popescu;yes a bacillum is high tech arcana when compared to the mouthdribbler. nevertheless, the selector among high tech arcanna is precisely the bulk of undifferentiated biomass.
1861841;1539444470;mircea_popescu;because in the end, to say "whichever pathogen best uses them wins" is to say exactly that.
1861842;1539444484;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform precisely what the pantsuit is : socialism reservoir.
1861843;1539444491;*;asciilifeform can picture.
1861844;1539444512;mircea_popescu;i would say that the best way to represent socialism, from early xtian communism to today's social media solipsism, is as a sort of meningitis.
1861845;1539444518;mircea_popescu;infection destroys higher cognitive function.
1861846;1539444530;mircea_popescu;except in plenty of bipedals -- nothing there to destroy.
1861847;1539444535;asciilifeform;was about to say
1861848;1539444544;asciilifeform;typical victim dun have so much to begin with
1861849;1539444562;mircea_popescu;and so -- the pantsuit of today the reservoir of today ; much like the mirvniki of 1800, the reservoir of 1800.
1861850;1539444595;mircea_popescu;which theoretical viewpoint suddenly makes nazi choices make sense : first, they took care of warsaw ghetto, the ~internal~ reservoir. once that was liquidated, moved on to the foreign reservoirs.
1861851;1539444626;mircea_popescu;ie, bombed london and killed as many caucasus "peasants" as could get hands on.
1861852;1539444635;asciilifeform;to make life even moar complicated, the infection, in some circumstances, is actually adaptive ( peasants living where agriculture barely worx at all, can only survive in 'mir' or similar formation , i suspect )
1861853;1539444665;mircea_popescu;yes, cognitive function has biological cost, so yes, decerebration adaptative.
1861854;1539444668;mircea_popescu;hence all the xanax.
1861855;1539444684;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when actually reading the german folx, noticed, they formulated exactly like this, it's no mystery.
1861856;1539444692;mircea_popescu;note that all peasants will ALWAYS live "where agriculture barely works at all"
1861857;1539444701;mircea_popescu;because this is specifically what "agriculture" ~MEANS~.
1861858;1539444719;mircea_popescu;"stupid cunts keep spawning and well... do what you can" "how about fix them ?" "uhhh...ooooga ?"
1861859;1539444733;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's still a diff, in italy 3 harvests in year, but near moscow ~maybe~ 1
1861860;1539444756;mircea_popescu;and so in italy rome fulla idle morons in excess of 1mn, in moscow 50k.
1861861;1539444771;asciilifeform;( and unlike in petri dish , the meatsacks ~don't~ automatically fill to capacity, barbarians, plagues, help'em to avoid )
1861862;1539444773;mircea_popescu;peasant will go past carry capacity of land, it's what peasant does. like saying "engine will drain gas tank"
1861863;1539444787;asciilifeform;he will unless somebody/something nails him
1861864;1539444794;mircea_popescu;right.
1861865;1539444796;asciilifeform;which , at least in past, reliably came
1861866;1539444804;mircea_popescu;hence all prayer in pantsuit church ever since forever "to peace".
1861867;1539444829;mircea_popescu;peasant isn't the misfortunate victim of his flaws and foibles. peasant is THE DEDICATION to the SPECIFICALLY ELECTED sins and maculae.
1861868;1539444832;asciilifeform;'a furore normannorum libera nos, domine!'(tm)(r)
1861869;1539445078;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: errybody 'elects maculae', it aint as if raider-cannibal is exempt somehow from thermodynamics, still gotta find somebody to eat.
1861870;1539445098;asciilifeform;and will similarly expand 'to capacity'
1861871;1539445129;mircea_popescu;yes. but raider cannibal is much better than christian farmer. bacause raider-cannibal doesn't either think he's doing the right thing nor believe it's impossible to do something else.
1861872;1539445143;asciilifeform;eh errybody thinks 'doing Right Thing'
1861873;1539445146;mircea_popescu;which is the weakness of the scheme, too -- raider leaks into "civilisation"
1861874;1539445153;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i propose this is not so.
1861875;1539445178;asciilifeform;if there's some record that raiders 'were sad' about raiding, i do not know of it
1861876;1539445194;asciilifeform;afaik errybody saw their particular jumper setting as the One Troo way
1861877;1539445256;mircea_popescu;let's approach it from this filum : in those societies which are "uncivilised", which is to say not yet rotten, the discussion of superlative achievement, as the hero (always male, of course, but let's leave that aside) is a plenitude. he can shoot the bow if the bow is known AND ride if the horse is known AND sail or raft or canoe AND sing if they have music AND AND AND
1861878;1539445274;mircea_popescu;meanwhile aming the "civilised" shitheads, the equivalent, saint, is ~pious~. naught else.
1861879;1539445300;mircea_popescu;the raider's world is whole, and he fills it ; whereas the peon's world is sharded, and he picks the easiest shard to the spite of all others.
1861880;1539445310;asciilifeform;i propose that 'pious' is exactly http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861376 ...
1861881;1539445310;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 19:29 asciilifeform: in related zoological lulz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B53JOuVU7_0 apparently happens
1861882;1539445335;mircea_popescu;something other than "we cut the worldcake into slices and picked the one easiest to lift" ?
1861883;1539445349;mircea_popescu;(wanking all the whilke about "how hard it is", of course, of course).
1861884;1539445355;asciilifeform;exactly that
1861885;1539445358;mircea_popescu;right.
1861886;1539445371;asciilifeform;'watch me whip myself silly for the glory of god' etc
1861887;1539445373;mircea_popescu;so there's your difference : raider will be good at everything there is to be good at or die trying.
1861888;1539445391;mircea_popescu;peasant will come up with an excuse as to why his football team winning occasionally means he gets free beer and samba si.
1861889;1539445401;asciilifeform;at least mythological raider. real life raider only gotta be good at horse an' bow.
1861890;1539445404;asciilifeform;poetry optional.
1861891;1539445411;mircea_popescu;not so optional at all.
1861892;1539445425;mircea_popescu;samurai took it seriously. old middle earth tribe idem. it seems to me it was not optional then
1861893;1539445442;mircea_popescu;capitalist thought anachronism in context. "yes it'd have worked ; but it'd never have occured to them"
1861894;1539445450;asciilifeform;plenty of folx took it seriously, once yer in a platoon of folx ~equally adept at horse an' bow, then how to stand out.
1861895;1539445460;mircea_popescu;and the ~reason~ "never would have occured" is specifically that they were dedicated to NOT breaking the world snowglobe into shards.
1861896;1539445461;asciilifeform;can sing , write haikus, wai not.
1861897;1539445475;mircea_popescu;i propose the capitalist view is inadequate in context.
1861898;1539445490;mircea_popescu;they didn't do it for a good reason according to you. they did it for a good reason according to them.
1861899;1539445505;asciilifeform;noshit
1861900;1539445509;mircea_popescu;or what, you think my interest in poetry comes from how i can't get cunt because fetlife, it's so fulla mp ?
1861901;1539445588;asciilifeform;i dun dispute the model where folx with a working head, like thinking and playing with calligraphy brush an' rhyme, and where herbivority is not conducive to growing thinking head
1861902;1539445588;mircea_popescu;in truth, the more adept at "horse and bow" or w/e they get, the more keenly aware of subtle differences that create hierarchy. exactly reversed dunning-kruger, "to me all these cowboys seem superlatively competent at riding and lasso, but they -- they complexly disagree"
1861903;1539445601;mircea_popescu;just about the whole story, yeah.
1861904;1539445621;asciilifeform;imho entirely adequate model.
1861905;1539445660;mircea_popescu;but the difference between integrated world and disintegrated world is specifically important, because common view of "postmodernism" is "woe poor man, overwhelmed".
1861906;1539445686;mircea_popescu;this is pious fraud. the pantsuit subhuman has been just as overwhelmed, and overwhelmed in the exact same ways expressed in the exact same terms since cato the elder.
1861907;1539445687;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> BingoBoingo, this is a short chick, btw, who walks around here alone on a daily basis, with a backpack for 6 years, never gets bothered << I suspect mircea_popescu's comment downthread explains it. A substantial set of the Latinos appear inclined to take anything that isn't bolted down, provided nothing bad happens to them from it.
1861908;1539445694;asciilifeform;dun forget the 'height of the towers' tho. pretty much all of the samurai poetry / arts / etc come from the period where jp had already been properly divvied up, and the swordsmen were living fast off guaranteed kokus of rice, rather than daily raid
1861909;1539445728;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is not factual either. most of the great japanese poets died of the sword.
1861910;1539445736;asciilifeform;own sword lol
1861911;1539445737;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Congrats as well on finding help girl
1861912;1539445743;mircea_popescu;much like most european poets died of some plague.
1861913;1539445752;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo quick on his feet ain't he.
1861914;1539445772;mircea_popescu;diana_coman is he the ultimate in suave p2p ? cuz i'm starting to suspect!
1861915;1539445788;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've been on a yr+ jp kick, attempting to read some of that 1337 poetry in original..
1861916;1539445805;asciilifeform;so delved into subj a bit.
1861917;1539445824;mircea_popescu;makes so much difference whose sword ?
1861918;1539445866;asciilifeform;depends. it is interesting to consider that 'seppuku' didn't take off until actual conflict mostly flamed out
1861919;1539445870;mircea_popescu;meanwhile tb, the archetipal european poet characteristic, was despised among the raiding population as the degenerative disease of the bull penis suckers.
1861920;1539445915;asciilifeform;considering that tb didn't take off until euros packed themselves like spiders in a jar, in 'urban' hell..
1861921;1539445928;asciilifeform;was associated with rat life, the way walmart is today
1861922;1539445930;asciilifeform;so justly despised.
1861923;1539445936;mircea_popescu;well, cow, but yes.
1861924;1539445943;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Mocky is indeed
1861925;1539445996;asciilifeform;so when 'poet' came to be seen, largely correctly, as yet another species of urban refuse, living on rubbish like new world raccoon, then yes despised, mega-surprise
1861926;1539446159;asciilifeform;imho 19th c 'tb poet' is ~exactly today's redditus.
1861927;1539446183;mircea_popescu;definitely.
1861928;1539446210;mircea_popescu;the overflow of unreadable crap "enlightment" has produced is carefully not mentioned by the pantsuit apologists.
1861929;1539446220;mircea_popescu;they tend to strictly stick to the names detectably opposed.
1861930;1539446247;mircea_popescu;kinda perverse, you know. sorta like a kakobrekla-run alt-trilema filled with effigy statues of the lordship.
1861931;1539446266;asciilifeform;the slow but effective garbage collector of time + expensive print, helps'em 'cheat', yes
1861932;1539446288;mircea_popescu;"our idiocy works as proven by all the works of those who hated us, which we claim for ourselves because hey, what's in a claim."
1861933;1539446337;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, kako was actually trying to bake one of these, and i was almost disappointed when it flamed out and left the current cinders, largely consisting of spamola and occasional prb 'news'
1861934;1539446364;mircea_popescu;the reflex is there though, and imo very edifying.
1861935;1539446379;asciilifeform;would be entertaining if erry world had a parallel shadow statue hell under it
1861936;1539446383;asciilifeform;but apparently no such luck
1861937;1539446389;mircea_popescu;ye, he's not stupid in a way different from stupid. the frog's legs don't jerk because something to do with this particular frog. and so on.
1861938;1539446438;mircea_popescu;but in truth, once "i suck, and THAT is why daddy doesn't like me" is blocked out, what's left besides "daddy likes me because i am exactly like him in all respects" ?
1861939;1539446476;mircea_popescu;"god created man in his image (and not vice-versa!!!!)" xtian creed. hence "peace". what could possibly be needed in the perfect world of the scummy repose, than... more of the same ?
1861940;1539446499;asciilifeform;herbivorous paradise, naturally, infinite grass an' 0 wolf
1861941;1539446509;mircea_popescu;mooo
1861942;1539446545;mircea_popescu;you know, it's funny btw, how "mmorpg" evolved. back around time of eternal september, computer in the house pretty much guaranteed head present. and so the games catered to this. hence h2.
1861943;1539446566;asciilifeform;wolf, of course, will grow, even on wolfless world. interestingly some time last decade somebody finally filmed deer eating bird's nest
1861944;1539446571;asciilifeform;the capacity -- is there.
1861945;1539446571;mircea_popescu;last september, computer ~= bong. guarantees nothing besides "lots of unearned income". as a result, wow is NOT similar to heroes 2
1861946;1539446582;mircea_popescu;in fact... it is precisely... infinite grass field, graze plox.
1861947;1539446603;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform will not grow in engineered world. hence the wow example.
1861948;1539446617;asciilifeform;even there, grows. hence the whines re 'griefers' , 'cheaters'
1861949;1539446622;mircea_popescu;no more.
1861950;1539446629;mircea_popescu;you're thinking a decade ago. they fixed this.
1861951;1539446643;asciilifeform;did they ? i admit, did not follow subj, soured on it thoroughly in early 00s
1861952;1539446647;mircea_popescu;there is literally nothing whatsoever to achieve and no means to achieve it left.
1861953;1539446677;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> you're thinking a decade ago. they fixed this. << This. They have this "battle royal" thing now where everybody laffs over how they all die in vain
1861954;1539446690;BingoBoingo;"Fortnight" is what the kids call it
1861955;1539446706;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: forestall the small wolf, be eaten by the great wolf...
1861956;1539446717;mircea_popescu;thing is utterly indistinguishable from typical usgistani office drone "job", of data entry. it is a wonder anyone "misses work" to "play wow". exactly like "breaking law, not ate mcdonalds, ate burger king". wut ?!
1861957;1539446724;BingoBoingo;Collects all the griefers and cheaters so the WoW incels can continue in piece
1861958;1539446752;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but yes, evidently fenrir came for them.
1861959;1539446761;asciilifeform;fenrir comes for errything.
1861960;1539446772;asciilifeform;the old sages were onto this.
1861961;1539446802;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1861962;1539447001;mircea_popescu;diana_coman https://www.abuseipdb.com/check/173.198.225.102
1861963;1539447121;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861810 << there's a list of things to send. kids are made douchebag through the process of finding said list, noticing "it works!" and going from there.
1861964;1539447121;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 15:00 diana_coman: possibly, no idea really; but what, they just send random udp stuff on all ports?
1861965;1539447196;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861827 << yup.
1861966;1539447196;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 15:10 asciilifeform: in the former case, it only needs to send 1 per second, to find a peer within 24 hours.
1861967;1539447240;mircea_popescu;which is why all the "oh noes advertise ip" bla bla machinery is always a sign of idiocy on the part of "designer". trbi needs "ip backflow" like i need power rangers in my living room.
1861968;1539447526;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861830 << no, it's not. l'hospital and whatnot.
1861969;1539447526;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 15:13 asciilifeform: the ~86k packets is a worst-case avg, obviously, per 'birthday theorem' it will succeed almost certainly sooner
1861970;1539447944;mircea_popescu;the probability to observe less than one event in a 85899 assay set is what, 18% or so.
1861971;1539448418;mircea_popescu;um... i mean...  P(x) is 0.0012 for λ = 1/85899 and x = 1.
1861972;1539448423;mircea_popescu;one of these days ima have to learn math.
1861973;1539449078;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861962 -> right
1861974;1539449078;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 16:10 mircea_popescu: diana_coman https://www.abuseipdb.com/check/173.198.225.102
1861975;1539449382;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861967 << tbf, taking a net to the # of nodes where blind shooting is reasonably fast peer finder, takes a '1st stage rocket' of some form
1861976;1539449382;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 16:14 mircea_popescu: which is why all the "oh noes advertise ip" bla bla machinery is always a sign of idiocy on the part of "designer". trbi needs "ip backflow" like i need power rangers in my living room.
1861977;1539449406;asciilifeform;plus there's the fact that nearly all konsoomer boxes (i.e. potential bots) are behind nat.
1861978;1539449445;asciilifeform;this is 1 of the reasons why the 'gold medal' for crapware folx today is usually to infect the nat boxen themselves.
1861979;1539449453;BingoBoingo;A special news story for alf on Police shootin Coons https://www.bnd.com/news/local/article219855365.html#wgt=qntra
1861980;1539449457;asciilifeform;then you get an 'adult' ipv4 to do as you please.
1861981;1539449473;BingoBoingo;"Police say they have shot and killed six raccoons since Sept. 1 in Belleville"
1861982;1539449499;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in ru there's a massive hunt going somewhere, they were dumb enuff to buy 1500 beasts from usa in '50s and spread in forest 'for fur industry'
1861983;1539449505;asciilifeform;and nao infested cities
1861984;1539449508;BingoBoingo;lol
1861985;1539449531;BingoBoingo;They bought, or is that cover story for rare goal scored by CIA?
1861986;1539449554;asciilifeform;bought, at some cost, at one time i saw the period docs
1861987;1539449564;asciilifeform;not cheap, to ship 1500 megarats
1861988;1539449578;asciilifeform;( consider, somebody had to catch'em, alive... )
1861989;1539449751;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861970 << exact fig remains to be calculated, but orig point was that ipv4 is a small enuff 'room' that one can 'shout' in it and be heard.
1861990;1539449751;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 16:25 mircea_popescu: the probability to observe less than one event in a 85899 assay set is what, 18% or so.
1861991;1539449767;asciilifeform;( at least by those with ears )
1861992;1539449854;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: also complicating the maffs is that the 'time req'd to be head' depends not only on particular node's 'shout', but those of ~others~
1861993;1539449886;asciilifeform;so i suspect the actual # of packets ( and time ) req'd , goes down ~geometrically~ with the # of working noades
1861994;1539449943;*;asciilifeform idly wonders what % of current net traffic actually consists of this brekekekekexkoaxkoax
1861995;1539450411;asciilifeform;other interesting bit is that brute-force 'udp on random ports' worx great for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-09#1723494 pill against nat
1861996;1539450411;a111;Logged on 2017-10-09 16:24 asciilifeform: ( observe that for hole punching, the 'server' does not need to be a heavy duty box that sits as 'star topology apex', but can be any of one or more boxes among the nodes themselves , at a particular time, with external ip. )
1861997;1539450455;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in the sense that conn works either way, yes.
1861998;1539450456;asciilifeform;when you send a udp packet, it opens 'ephemeral' path through nat, that for a spell can hear a 'reply' ( which on may nat's, does not actually have to come from the same ip you transmitted to )
1861999;1539450472;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: correct, it worx for a spell ( how long, depends on the particular shitrouter )
1862000;1539450472;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying the mechanism's dysfunctional ; i just said your specific statement of probabilities was wrong
1862001;1539450493;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i noted as much ( re 'birthday' ), but did not bother to calculate the actual , aha
1862002;1539450498;mircea_popescu;but yes it's trivial to do the maff to show that cost of acquisition vs timevalue of connection comes out green
1862003;1539450508;asciilifeform;~iff~ yer net is big enuff.
1862004;1539450533;mircea_popescu;if what you're doing is worht doing net can't be small enough etc.
1862005;1539450537;mircea_popescu;new sociological measure.
1862006;1539450538;asciilifeform;if all you got is 2 boxes randomly firing udp, they can sit for years and not meet
1862007;1539450596;asciilifeform;all this means is that you gotta do the initial infect , via whatever way, to get coupla 10k nodes.
1862008;1539450643;asciilifeform;at that point, your hydra has enuff heads that it aint beheadable.
1862009;1539450652;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861989 << which precisely puts the gavinism of ipv6 in its proper context. "oh noes, think of those poor africans! how their exclusion would make republic work!!!"
1862010;1539450652;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 16:55 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861970 << exact fig remains to be calculated, but orig point was that ipv4 is a small enuff 'room' that one can 'shout' in it and be heard.
1862011;1539450664;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/ exactly.
1862012;1539450677;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i see ipv6 as , at least in part, a deliberate scheme to make p2p ~impossible.
1862013;1539450700;mircea_popescu;exactly same thing as gavin "need more blocks" or buffett "taxes too low" etc.
1862014;1539450734;asciilifeform;it's exactly this. 'hmm how do we nail warez. iknow, they'll never meet in the vastness of outer 6byte space'
1862015;1539450746;asciilifeform;'force'em into star topology'
1862016;1539450793;asciilifeform;the funny bit is that even if errybody turned on ipv6, the result would simply be 9000x moar brekekekex. cuz it'll still work.
1862017;1539450796;mircea_popescu;the discussion of http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ dovetails here neatly : the ~illusion~ of "vastness" and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861905 is deliberately constructed, specifically for the purpose.
1862018;1539450796;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 15:47 mircea_popescu: but the difference between integrated world and disintegrated world is specifically important, because common view of "postmodernism" is "woe poor man, overwhelmed".
1862019;1539450806;mircea_popescu;every mother ever told the independent-minded child precisely this, also.
1862020;1539450814;mircea_popescu;which is why and wherefore "female state".
1862021;1539450844;asciilifeform;'I’ve been patient, I’ve been gracious / And this mountain is covered with wolves / Hear them howling, my hungry children / Maybe you should stay and have another drink and think about me and you.'(tm)
1862022;1539450855;mircea_popescu;right ?
1862023;1539450905;asciilifeform;how else.
1862024;1539451094;asciilifeform;ties in nicely with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861840 thrd, also. inca needs mass of 'african children' to be 'neutron absorber', anyffing, anyffing to keep the functional folx from meeting up.
1862025;1539451094;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 15:27 mircea_popescu: yes a bacillum is high tech arcana when compared to the mouthdribbler. nevertheless, the selector among high tech arcanna is precisely the bulk of undifferentiated biomass.
1862026;1539451141;mircea_popescu;aha.
1862027;1539451196;asciilifeform;whole point of, e.g., prb.
1862028;1539451237;asciilifeform;and hence asciilifeform's interest in re mapping out the net and seeing how much living tissue, where.
1862029;1539451274;mircea_popescu;meanwhile on the fuck-them-with-their-own-overton-window front, my latest contribution on fetlife : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qyG9q/?raw=true
1862030;1539451294;mircea_popescu;as slavegirl observes, "im sure the entirety of fetlife is offended!"
1862031;1539451317;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is pretty plain that the 'oh noez, you spammed me! i'ma write lengthy whine' chixx didn't grow up in '90s
1862032;1539451325;asciilifeform;older folx laugh off spam silently
1862033;1539451333;asciilifeform;( and adjust filter )
1862034;1539451355;mircea_popescu;but the points stand : equalitarianism and relativism ARE self-defeating ; there's nothing substantial to distinguish any fetish from any other fetish, and "niggers are people too" or "i am woman hear me roar" just as fetish and identically as fetish to furries or trannies.
1862035;1539451404;asciilifeform;what boggles my mind is that they dun see the plain fact that if yer response to 'oh noez, spam' is to sit down and write missive, you're ddosable with 1 finger
1862036;1539451405;mircea_popescu;moreover, the "difference between law and fetish is that law -- universal" immediately breaks down when i don't subscribe. and i can't be excluded, either, because that's the fucking value the whole thing's supposed to be predicated on.
1862037;1539451432;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform whats the spam discussion about ?
1862038;1539451447;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the aggrieved chix, whose spew mircea_popescu posted on several occasions
1862039;1539451459;mircea_popescu;anyway, "inclusive female objectivism" entirely contradiction in terms.
1862040;1539451468;asciilifeform;'you asked me to serve, who are you to ask this' etc
1862041;1539451479;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> what boggles my mind is that they dun see the plain fact that if yer response to 'oh noez, spam' is to sit down and write missive, you're ddosable with 1 finger << Pretty good measure of social placement. Do you need to filter all comers, or can you reply to spam without surrendering all the time.
1862042;1539451495;mircea_popescu;he has a point there.
1862043;1539451495;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i gotta wonder, do they answer erry nigerian 419 also ?
1862044;1539451509;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's hard out there for a fat would-be whore that gets one message a year.
1862045;1539451529;asciilifeform;so -- chased away small wolf, invited fenrir ?
1862046;1539451531;asciilifeform;i can see it.
1862047;1539451565;asciilifeform;life is easy for dodo bird. until not
1862048;1539451582;mircea_popescu;fwiw i simply discard lots and lots and lots of "705babygirl 23F sub 1m What?" ; they come in at the rate of a few / minute, and who the fuck cares anyway. "think of it as an intelligence test -- that you failed", right.
1862049;1539451599;mircea_popescu;i suppose people'd fall over if they discovered i own the most messaged-to acct on fetlife.
1862050;1539451606;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sounds , to my untrained eye at least, like spam from the site itself
1862051;1539451615;asciilifeform;iirc they all have a perlistic 'gurl generator' going 24/7
1862052;1539451616;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they're scatterback from my own bots.
1862053;1539451620;asciilifeform;aa
1862054;1539451655;mircea_popescu;see, i pump out k's/day, i get back about 60-70% or so (imagine that!) the 90% of which directly to bin.
1862055;1539451672;mircea_popescu;but read the paste, would you, it's actually interesting for once.
1862056;1539451677;*;asciilifeform reads..
1862057;1539451687;*;mircea_popescu is too lazy to make trilema article out of it, but imo some valid points of policy in there.
1862058;1539451697;asciilifeform;* billymg (~billymg@161.0.121.194) has joined #trilema << oh hey welcome to rk, billymg
1862059;1539451734;asciilifeform;quick learner, he is
1862060;1539451747;BingoBoingo;How is rockchip life treating you billymg?
1862061;1539451787;billymg;feels good :D
1862062;1539451805;billymg;next step will be getting mp-wp setup so i can have a proper www
1862063;1539451825;mircea_popescu;ever pressed anything before ?
1862064;1539451872;billymg;i tried pressing trb on a gcc >5 gentoo box and iirc that went fine but make failed
1862065;1539451891;billymg;logs seemed to indicate that trb on gcc > 5 simply won't work
1862066;1539451896;mircea_popescu;so keep notes, and then there's your first article for free -- "how i pressed mp-wp to give self proper www".
1862067;1539451900;asciilifeform;billymg: gcc >=5 is broken, this is clearly spelled out in the l0gz
1862068;1539451916;*;billymg understands
1862069;1539451931;billymg;it was my first gentoo build, so i went "easy mode"
1862070;1539451953;billymg;will need to rebuild again on that box using http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295
1862071;1539451969;asciilifeform;billymg: you may want to try trinque's beta cuntoo, on local box, it ships with godly gcc.
1862072;1539451986;billymg;asciilifeform: would love to try that out
1862073;1539452003;asciilifeform;billymg: http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/
1862074;1539452045;asciilifeform;billymg: diana_coman is the current bleeding edge pilot user, she may be able to answer specific q's re practicals
1862075;1539452056;billymg;mircea_popescu: that's the plan, hoping to publish a few "guide" posts
1862076;1539452061;asciilifeform;neato
1862077;1539452066;*;asciilifeform loox forward to reading
1862078;1539452110;billymg;i must say it feels nice waking up and having meaningful work to do
1862079;1539452136;mircea_popescu;ikr ?
1862080;1539452147;mircea_popescu;sometimes i wake up and there's like... cool shit made! seemingly overnight!
1862081;1539452161;asciilifeform;billymg: pretty much errybody here is at the stage where '1e6 hours worth of meaningful work, but only so many in life' -- but i gotta say i prefer this 'problem' to the alternative
1862082;1539452308;trinque;btw my work for the day shall be getting phf's vtools into the cuntoo build, after which first cut should be done.
1862083;1539452359;asciilifeform;trinque: this will rock. and incidentally i'ma be baking that sunlight lappy next wk, and intend to set it up as a cuntoo box with whatever bleeding edge you come out with
1862084;1539452386;mircea_popescu;nice!
1862085;1539452388;trinque;can't wait to see a post on that either
1862086;1539452416;asciilifeform;( my old workhorse x60 is not a cuntoo, it is in fact my original deloused-gentoo platform on which i derived the poetteringism-exclusion, gcc<5, etc flags and related items )
1862087;1539452426;asciilifeform;the current rk gentoo is based on it
1862088;1539452439;trinque;btw no insult meant to esthlos; we'll get an ebuild in there for his vtron as well, but he lacks a differ, and thus it's not a full v
1862089;1539452467;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in materia obscura, permit me to befoul the logs with idiocy.
1862090;1539452485;mircea_popescu;"We sat on chairs in the sun, and after we had been silent a long while, she began to do what women will never cease doing, so wise men say, as long as men say they love them, to define what the love of a man meant to a woman, and to explain the love of a man. She said that that man was wise who had said that love was like religion, and must be done well or not at all, but that she had never yet found in any man sincere love
1862091;1539452485;mircea_popescu;and delicacy, for there was always something coarse, some little note which jarred, some movement of the mind and body maladroit, in a man who is shown a woman's love. "When men love and are not loved," she said, "often they kept their grace and pride, and women are proud to be loved by such men--even faithfully for more than ten years; but when men are loved and are confident, then they seem to lose delicacy, to think that l
1862092;1539452486;mircea_popescu;ove breaks down all barriers between man and woman; that love is a vase of iron, unbreakable, and not, as it is, a vase of the most delicate and brittle pottery, to be broken to pieces by the least touch of a careless hand. They seem to think that the state of love stands at the end of a great striving; they do not realise that it is only the beginning, and that the striving must never cease, for without striving there is no
1862093;1539452491;mircea_popescu;love, but only content. But they do not see that; they insist on spoiling love, breaking the vase with stupid, unconscious hands; and when it breaks they are surprised, and they say that love is a fickle thing and will stand no tests, and that women are the very devil. Always they spoil love; it comes and finds them helpless, puzzling whether to clothe themselves entirely in reserve or whether to be entirely naked in brutalit
1862094;1539452492;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: meanwhile i read the paste, it's exactly the 'peasants' thread encapsulated.
1862095;1539452496;mircea_popescu;y; and generally they compromise, and, physically and mentally, walk about in their shirts."
1862096;1539452500;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ikr!
1862097;1539452562;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reads like 'ohnoez, donkey ate the carrot, how will he walk nao' lament
1862098;1539452563;mircea_popescu;anyway, author of above vomit is NOT anglo, but ~armenian~. in his own words, "while for an Armenian, who soon realises that his nationality is considered as something of a _faux pas_, there are none of these things, and he is entirely lost in the wilderness, for there is no solid background to his existence in another's country; and, as the days lengthen out and he grows tired of walking in the Green Park, he comes to wonder
1862099;1539452563;mircea_popescu; why his fathers ever left Hayastan; for it seems to me much better to be a murdered prince in Hayastan than a living vagabond in London."
1862100;1539452574;mircea_popescu;so -- orc, century ago. still same idiocy.
1862101;1539452599;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform point being, the female perspective is somehow dominant in western discourse notwithstanding it is deeply irrelevant.
1862102;1539452611;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hey there's a reason wai the armenians ate as much lead as they did
1862103;1539452615;mircea_popescu;who THE FUCK cares what the slavegirl thinks about the hand holding the whip ?!
1862104;1539452631;trinque;"conquered cultures long to eat the bunghole, noose at 11"
1862105;1539452642;mircea_popescu;"oh herp derp brutality". woman, it's life. everything else is piss
1862106;1539452646;mircea_popescu;what fucking "delicate vase".
1862107;1539452653;mircea_popescu;delicate wankery.
1862108;1539452742;asciilifeform;all wankery similarly 'delicate', hates reality as balloon hates pin
1862109;1539452760;mircea_popescu;teh delicacy of queef bubbles.
1862110;1539452972;mircea_popescu;(michael arlen, btw, to also provide in passing the answer to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860585 : "Dikran Kouyoumdjian")
1862111;1539452972;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 01:49 mircea_popescu: the punch line, being, i suppose -- guess the fellow's name.
1862112;1539453450;*;Mocky is in no danger of being suave
1862113;1539453481;mircea_popescu;Mocky how's suave go ?
1862114;1539453499;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Suave is geographically and culturally relative
1862115;1539453508;mircea_popescu;rrrrrriccco suaveee!
1862116;1539453524;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/brits-ban-tv-ad-for-showing-healthy-human-shaped-female-model/ << Qntra - Brits Ban TV Ad For Showing Healthy, Human Shaped, Female Model
1862117;1539453543;mircea_popescu;i can see why they'd have to.
1862118;1539453578;BingoBoingo;Can't condition Rotterdam to not want Theresa May
1862119;1539453627;mircea_popescu;" after the watchdog received 22 complaints over her super slim appearance." << can you belive how few people still follow the "united kingdom" youtube account ?
1862120;1539453691;mircea_popescu;i mean, as in the celebrated case of that caleb fucktard of http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-127.158-135.403 fame -- i guarantee you the 22 complaints are 90%+ of the femwatchers, which are 90%+ of the total watchers.
1862121;1539453711;mircea_popescu;thereby uk still has ~30 followers tops.
1862122;1539453783;*;BingoBoingo still remembers the Irish/British/US college aged english teacher invasion of the hostel for a visa run
1862123;1539453818;mircea_popescu;5k lbs for a dozenish people ?
1862124;1539453844;BingoBoingo;The chubbsters were SO BITTER they weren't getting attention from anyone but their hostage boys
1862125;1539453864;*;mircea_popescu remembers the days he could eye-weight a herd of fillies for loading in cattle trucks ; he could get within 1% of true weight just by watching them stand ; at the time a 7 ton truck took ten to eleven dozen young whores.
1862126;1539453898;BingoBoingo;And the hostage boys were so browbeaten they couldn't consider the local girls lest they become rapists
1862127;1539453952;BingoBoingo;Prolly only 3500-4500 ish for a dozen ish girls, only one clearly at 300 lbs.
1862128;1539454025;BingoBoingo;They'd get blackout drunk, shit the bed, and generally horrify the latinos unaccustomed to Madonna culture
1862129;1539454075;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile they boys were just... broken
1862130;1539454196;BingoBoingo;I mean they went to the mall with the pasty moo cows and came back with the same moo cows and not a single one of the fine specimens fo feminimity that populates the mall
1862131;1539454417;*;BingoBoingo wonders what would have happened if the same visa run occurred during January bikini season
1862132;1539454808;Mocky;probably same outcome BingoBoingo
1862133;1539455016;BingoBoingo;Maybe? I could imagine one of the maygendered stabbing on of the boys for looking at the plentiful fields of ass.
1862134;1539455401;Mocky;stabbing not needed if boy can be cowwed. what, mayogendered gonna start taking the more strenuous route now?
1862135;1539455470;BingoBoingo;When they get black out drunk in the way basic anglophone bitches get, yes
1862136;1539455516;BingoBoingo;There's a whole epidemic of this in England, fat pasty cows breaking drinkwear and maiming men interested in human shaped women
1862137;1539455814;mircea_popescu;in other words, jesus god this is lovely -- whenever the girls meet the house's suddenly fulla giggles an' laughter.
1862138;1539455885;BingoBoingo;Well, more shock and awe about the bedshitting
1862139;1539455899;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, there are no men to start with, in the situation you describe
1862140;1539455922;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: Right, there's a small herd of boys
1862141;1539455991;mircea_popescu;worlds*
1862142;1539456093;diana_coman;kind of doubt even that; cows on one side really makes for oxes or at most calves on the other, nothing more
1862143;1539456166;mircea_popescu;diana_coman you know, unmolested calves grow into bulls ; ox is product of human industry.
1862144;1539456222;mircea_popescu;in the immortal words of FU (felix unger), "you have to MAKE gravy, it doesn't just come!"
1862145;1539456249;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I know, hence ox; ("at most calves" if BingoBoingo considers that they really are just boys)
1862146;1539456299;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859809 << reviewed the db, 15 keys double-regged, of which 5 have been rated only on one nick, and 4 on both (adamgibbins / whoop, MTW / rainrawr, sina / herbijudlestoids, diana_away / Mocky), rest of the keys have no ratings.
1862147;1539456299;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 16:46 mircea_popescu: trinque she has a point, that table needs a unique on the fp column. deedbot can't accept registeration of keys it's already seen.
1862148;1539456351;trinque;I figure now's a good time to purge the unrated. for the few with ratings on both, I can merge to the nick with earliest rating, or drop.
1862149;1539456363;diana_coman;trinque, please drop the diana_away
1862150;1539456365;trinque;probably the diana_coman / Mocky case indicates drop
1862151;1539456384;trinque;diana_coman: indeed, will do
1862152;1539456472;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862137 -> this triggered image of labyrinth, lol; "that's just what the Minotaur said - when sated"
1862153;1539456472;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 18:36 mircea_popescu: in other words, jesus god this is lovely -- whenever the girls meet the house's suddenly fulla giggles an' laughter.
1862154;1539456664;mircea_popescu;trinque honestly merging can't possibly work
1862155;1539456682;mircea_popescu;diana_coman ahahaha could be, could be, possibly, possibly...
1862156;1539456684;trinque;yep, I don't think so either. rater won't know where his rating went
1862157;1539456697;mircea_popescu;me shall nao off to walk. todledoo!
1862158;1539456725;trinque;I'll make an archive of current state before blowtorching unrated and latter-of-doublerated
1862159;1539456759;trinque;cya!
1862160;1539459256;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-09#1859809 << and done, unique set on fp col.
1862161;1539459256;a111;Logged on 2018-10-09 16:46 mircea_popescu: trinque she has a point, that table needs a unique on the fp column. deedbot can't accept registeration of keys it's already seen.
1862162;1539459265;*;trinque bbl
1862163;1539462758;deedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/13/results-of-testing-udp-take-2/ << Ossasepia - Results of Testing UDP - Take 2
1862164;1539463507;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mircea_popescu : didja ever say wai not made'em all 1472 ?
1862165;1539463574;asciilifeform;cuz if it's simply to distinguish the rsa from the symmetricolade without wasting a bit in the payload, could simply listen on 2 ports...
1862166;1539463693;asciilifeform;would get much simpler coad (i.e. my orig. fixed frame) vs the extended one with moar moving parts.
1862167;1539463711;diana_coman;asciilifeform, hmm, there is certainly a case for same size precisely because way simpler code
1862168;1539463724;asciilifeform;plus would let you put the new acct thing, potentially, on separate box, in fyootoor
1862169;1539463728;asciilifeform;just by rerouting
1862170;1539463805;diana_coman;this was the orig discussion re sizes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857354
1862171;1539463805;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 16:25 mircea_popescu: ok, so this back of a digital envelope seems to suggest we want : 1. fixed size 1470 byte rsa packets, made to work with 3920-bit rsa (of which i presume the useful message size to be 1872 bit, diana_coman plox to confirm maffs ?). such a packet has then 1696 bits spare for e and bullshit.
1862172;1539463819;asciilifeform;rright, i did read mircea_popescu's spec
1862173;1539463870;asciilifeform;you wouldn't have to change anyffing else in about it, can pad the unused 2 bytes with rng.
1862174;1539463978;asciilifeform;all udp packet carry port, it's settable to whatever you want just like the rest of the packet.
1862175;1539463987;asciilifeform;simply a 16bit field.
1862176;1539464070;asciilifeform;( to nitpick painfully -- ~frags~ dun carry port; but you ain't fragging no moar, so this is not an issue )
1862177;1539464105;diana_coman;the port/separate is not an issue at all; at any rate rsa will be processed separately by design (and with lower priority) - but all this part is of no direct concern here
1862178;1539464134;asciilifeform;having 2 processes (and if desired later, 2 boxes) to process the 2 types, will make priority queue simpler also.
1862179;1539464200;asciilifeform;i.e. simply run the acct one with 'nice 19 ...'
1862180;1539464219;diana_coman;strictly from an implementation perspective I'd certainly prefer to have only ONE size of message to deal with - even if it means potentially that one has to check wtf it is; still, I'll wait for mircea_popescu to weigh in on this
1862181;1539464271;asciilifeform;if you distinguish by port, the os will throw them into the correct process 'for phree'. but sure
1862182;1539464335;asciilifeform;( i.e. you dun have to 'check what it is' on top of existing logic, e.g. if port 9000 it goes to serpent, if 9001 -- to rsa , and each respective process validates per the existing rulez )
1862183;1539473465;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf wouldja happen to have a frozen nonretarded version of bordeaux-threads somewhere ? the one i have, is utterly sad, squats nickname 'bt' which prevents binary-types from working...
1862184;1539473481;asciilifeform;grr for fuck's sake what use is a bot that dun go half the time
1862185;1539473497;asciilifeform;it's like two-legged stool.
1862186;1539473585;*;asciilifeform thought, naively, 'binary-types itself is ~1k loc, why don't i fix ~that~... 6 hrs later...'
1862187;1539474167;asciilifeform;hilariously, bug (if can call it that) reported as early as 2008, and... 0 published fix to either lib
1862188;1539474192;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-24#1352121 << related.
1862189;1539474192;a111;Logged on 2015-12-24 18:35 asciilifeform: 'if two trains meet one another on a track, neither shall move until the other has passed.' (supposedly from a 1880s american state law)
1862190;1539474555;trinque;asciilifeform: it's !Qlater
1862191;1539474567;asciilifeform;hmm
1862192;1539474573;asciilifeform;!Qlater tell phf wouldja happen to have a frozen nonretarded version of bordeaux-threads somewhere ? the one i have, is utterly sad, squats nickname 'bt' which prevents binary-types from working...
1862193;1539474579;asciilifeform;nope.
1862194;1539474592;trinque;lol well lobbes I tried :p
1862195;1539474618;asciilifeform;lol
1862196;1539474664;asciilifeform;trinque: i dun suppose you have a cured binary-types ? ( cured, but presently fails to run when i strip away the asdfism so i can work it into my tree bodily )
1862197;1539474703;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RcyND/?raw=true << oblig barfola
1862198;1539474912;asciilifeform;it's come to where i can't look at heathen coad for an hour without turning up an intractable barfology.
1862199;1539477951;mod6;Hi there, just catching up on the l0gz
1862200;1539478138;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 << Ok hanbot, this sounds great!
1862201;1539478138;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
1862202;1539479318;mircea_popescu;trinque nice!
1862203;1539479391;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862164 << yes ; cuz all 1470s go to one process and all 1472s go to a different one. eventually as a scalability thing could even go to diff box altogether. there's not so muchrelation between the two types.
1862204;1539479391;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 20:45 asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu : didja ever say wai not made'em all 1472 ?
1862205;1539479434;mircea_popescu;diana_coman 14721 or 14702 BITS long, not octets yes ?
1862206;1539480543;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862167 << nah, they're different divisors.
1862207;1539480543;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 20:48 diana_coman: asciilifeform, hmm, there is certainly a case for same size precisely because way simpler code
1862208;1539480639;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862190 << i lolled.
1862209;1539480639;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 23:49 trinque: asciilifeform: it's !Qlater
1862210;1539489847;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862196 << nope, haven't wrestled that pig
1862211;1539489847;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 23:51 asciilifeform: trinque: i dun suppose you have a cured binary-types ? ( cured, but presently fails to run when i strip away the asdfism so i can work it into my tree bodily )
1862212;1539491388;Mocky;oh shit, mircea_popescu unrated me!
1862213;1539491401;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862167 >> I don't see how it would necessarily be any simpler aside from one `if` statement. And there's nothing to stop listening on separate ports and getting all benefits asciilifeform mentions with different sizes
1862214;1539491402;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 20:48 diana_coman: asciilifeform, hmm, there is certainly a case for same size precisely because way simpler code
1862215;1539491559;asciilifeform;Mocky: didja read the libudp coad ?
1862216;1539491627;asciilifeform;Mocky: http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_errata.asciilifeform/tree/
1862217;1539491679;*;Mocky is reading
1862218;1539491709;asciilifeform;and in particular, http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_genesis#L440
1862219;1539491723;asciilifeform;i pissed on unix idjicy, none of my routines return sizes or read/write variant lengths. all packets presumed to be hardcoded size.
1862220;1539491734;asciilifeform;as imho is proper, i.e. max frame size.
1862221;1539491842;asciilifeform;all received packets are either valid (i.e. the one troo size) or invalid (if not).
1862222;1539491889;asciilifeform;all buffers preallocated on stack , to the fixed size.
1862223;1539491968;Mocky;ok so does the hardcoding need to be in-package for the preallocated buffers?
1862224;1539491998;asciilifeform;yes.
1862225;1539492061;asciilifeform;diana_coman has a 'generic' ver, a kind of ada cheat i suggested ; but it has minus of preventing restriction encapsulation, as well as inevitably moar complex receiver (mine handles one size and one size only)
1862226;1539492097;asciilifeform;Mocky: y'understand what preallocated means. it means fixed, at compile time, here.
1862227;1539492100;asciilifeform;invariant.
1862228;1539492105;Mocky;no, i get it
1862229;1539492109;asciilifeform;ok
1862230;1539492304;Mocky;it's a simplifying assumption that pays off with smooth transition between program and unix, when it holds. a tactical cut
1862231;1539492343;asciilifeform;Mocky: hm?
1862232;1539492439;Mocky;so long as you can assume one tru packet size, you can get some ada benefits + extra simplicity, that you don't get otherwise, no?
1862233;1539492488;asciilifeform;Mocky: unixism per se had ~nuffin to do with it. incut away a degree of freedom. unnecessary degrees of freedom are fundamentally harmful in re simplicity/sanity.
1862234;1539492496;asciilifeform;they're a bus with 4 brake pedals.
1862235;1539492508;asciilifeform;* i cut
1862236;1539492614;asciilifeform;there's no reason os's udp should even fucking accept a sub-frame packet payload. or super-framed.
1862237;1539492626;asciilifeform;1572 bytes or go pound sand.
1862238;1539492641;asciilifeform;lol 1472
1862239;1539492669;asciilifeform;max ethernet frame - hdr len. nomoar, noless.
1862240;1539492689;asciilifeform;nic sends 1500 frame always, recall.
1862241;1539492695;asciilifeform;no matter what you ask for.
1862242;1539492837;asciilifeform;leave n bytes in frame empty, simply gives 'fritz chip' handy spot to stuff kleptograms in...
1862243;1539492856;Mocky;if a program wants to send 200 byte packets only, too bad, os won't allow cuz asciilifeform says your small number not godly?
1862244;1539492870;asciilifeform;nic wont allow!
1862245;1539492889;asciilifeform;nic sends and receives 1500 per frame! rtfm plz.
1862246;1539492909;asciilifeform;ethernet spec. blame xerox , not asciilifeform
1862247;1539492936;asciilifeform;yer still sending 1500, even if packet is nominal len 3.
1862248;1539492990;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862236 >> reject at os was yours
1862249;1539492990;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 04:50 asciilifeform: there's no reason os's udp should even fucking accept a sub-frame packet payload. or super-framed.
1862250;1539492993;asciilifeform;from electrical pov, you win nuffin by shortening'em under a frame.
1862251;1539493017;asciilifeform;Mocky: imho os should not perpetuate delusion.
1862252;1539493178;asciilifeform;i for instance am sitting here and tryin', not always successfully, to cure folx of delusions that linux instilled in'em, e.g. 'tcp gives cheap an' reliable pipes' ( cured mircea_popescu after , what, 3y ) and nao 'udp packets can be anyffing, not merely 1472' (not cured yet..)
1862253;1539493197;asciilifeform;point being, they're mirages, lies linux tells the hapless user.
1862254;1539493302;Mocky;the important point being that as a matter of policy, perpetuating smaller packet sizes is a bad idea
1862255;1539493336;asciilifeform;Mocky: there's precisely 1 packet size. in physical box. 1500. it's the railroad gauge.
1862256;1539493379;asciilifeform;errything else is hokum created by ip stack theatrics. and incurs complexity cost for 0 win.
1862257;1539493482;asciilifeform;Mocky: read up re what yer nic actually does. then will grasp that by pretending that it does something, anything , else, you incur runaway complexity cost and impedance mismatch. always.
1862258;1539493541;Mocky;I don't disagree. I just wasn't able to infer this stance from your stated objection >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862166
1862259;1539493541;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 20:48 asciilifeform: would get much simpler coad (i.e. my orig. fixed frame) vs the extended one with moar moving parts.
1862260;1539493543;asciilifeform;i dun think i can say anyffing else to make this point clearer, it's imho as screamingly obvious as 2+2, if you take the time to rtfm. so i'ma leave it at this.
1862261;1539493621;asciilifeform;Mocky: i was describing why i wrote it as i did.
1862262;1539493690;asciilifeform;the physical nic ~always sends 1500!~ it also always receives 1500!!
1862263;1539493712;asciilifeform;there are not actually variant packets on the wire!
1862264;1539493722;asciilifeform;only fulls and frags, is all there is.
1862265;1539493772;Mocky;I get it and I agree with you.
1862266;1539493804;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-02#1857258 << earlier thrd
1862267;1539493804;a111;Logged on 2018-10-02 14:52 asciilifeform: 4096bit is 512byte, you're sending 1500 frame always, even if your nominal packet is 3bytes long. simply how ethernet worx.
1862268;1539493897;asciilifeform;Mocky: ok. so, observe, i dun record or return lengths. all length are either $full ( which i tentatively had set to 512, pre-rftming) or invalid ( may as well 0 )
1862269;1539493949;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862265
1862270;1539493949;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 05:09 Mocky: I get it and I agree with you.
1862271;1539493961;asciilifeform;and if i were to, say, buffer packets, queue'em, always can say exactly how much space they will occupy.
1862272;1539493998;asciilifeform;aite, i'ma bbl then, will not belabour the point.
1862273;1539494015;*;asciilifeform to bed 
1862274;1539499677;jurov;Hi all thebitcoin.foundation is being switched to new server, not just the A record but whole DNS changed, there might be issues next few hours.
1862275;1539500554;jurov;if you use hosts file: 161.0.121.248
1862276;1539501388;ave1;asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862262, strange, it seems that ethernet does allow for variable length packages. I can see that the header / data ratio is smallest at the largest physical package size.
1862277;1539501388;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 05:08 asciilifeform: the physical nic ~always sends 1500!~ it also always receives 1500!!
1862278;1539502745;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862205 -> neither! it's 1472, not 14721 and it's octets not bits as per: http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#selection-105.0-105.29 and http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#selection-76.15-125.25
1862279;1539502745;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 01:10 mircea_popescu: diana_coman 14721 or 14702 BITS long, not octets yes ?
1862280;1539502900;diana_coman;the tester does not pack them in rsa or serpent proper so it's the "package" there rather than protocol message, I guess that might be confusing, I'll update
1862281;1539502993;diana_coman;packets even, right
1862282;1539503344;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862213 -> it's more than just one if statement (although unnecessary branches in themselves are not great anyway); basically it's the udp code itself that has to be messed up to accommodate this particular thing - either using generic or otherwise using the largest of the two and then filtering one level higher
1862283;1539503344;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 04:30 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862167 >> I don't see how it would necessarily be any simpler aside from one `if` statement. And there's nothing to stop listening on separate ports and getting all benefits asciilifeform mentions with different sizes
1862284;1539503580;diana_coman;in fact the 3rd option that is the one actually to use is having different sizes on the two processes (i.e. different constant simply)
1862285;1539503857;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862203 -> the point as I see it is precisely that physically there actually is only ONE type anyway so any different types/sizes is in fact a higher level filtering no matter what (i.e. having 2 different processes each with its own size doesn't mean that each will actually get only the size it wants)
1862286;1539503857;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 01:09 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862164 << yes ; cuz all 1470s go to one process and all 1472s go to a different one. eventually as a scalability thing could even go to diff box altogether. there's not so muchrelation between the two types.
1862287;1539506070;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=52 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/11/2018
1862288;1539511100;bvt;hello
1862289;1539511109;bvt;vtools_tempfile_standalone.vpatch http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/A0SPK/?raw=true vtools_tempfile_standalone.vpatch.bvt.sig http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/IVy7W/?raw=true
1862290;1539511119;bvt;short writeup on what i did and why: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GLopH/?raw=true
1862291;1539511131;bvt;would love to hear your comments
1862292;1539517492;ave1;diana_coman, I've updated the crc32 code! (still at the place)
1862293;1539517494;ave1;Unfortunately is does not read as a straight long division anymore. But copying of the input array is avoided and
1862294;1539517495;ave1;overall more efficient
1862295;1539518204;diana_coman;bvt, get yourself a pizarro shared account and start your blog there precisely with those pastes, what's keeping you?
1862296;1539518221;diana_coman;ave1, thanks for the update, I'll look at it in a minute
1862297;1539520624;diana_coman;ave1, it seems I still get the old .vpatch? I took it with curl from http://ave1.org/code/eucrypt/eucrypt_crc32_div.vpatch ; is this the right place?
1862298;1539521619;lobbes;!Qlater tell asciilifeform bot's back. Once auctionbot is finished I will go back and redo the "!Qlater tell" stuff to sit on top of logbot as well (right now, this too is sitting on an old heathen bot that doesn't auto-authenticate with NickServ after fleanode disconnect shenanigans)
1862299;1539521620;lobbesbot;lobbes: The operation succeeded.
1862300;1539521718;lobbes;and speaking of auctionbot: development is complete. At the moment I am getting ready to begin some prod testing and then all that's left is to write the blog post explaining the usage. Getting close!
1862301;1539525577;billymg;it appears that php 5.6.38 is now the only 5.6 php available on the upstream portage repo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/dqRWG/?raw=true
1862302;1539525599;billymg;and even that can't be safely emerged as it would require an update to portage http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ZYgae/?raw=true
1862303;1539525612;billymg;which, spoiler alert, requires gpg2
1862304;1539525827;billymg;relentless with their http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-31#1778861
1862305;1539525827;a111;Logged on 2018-01-31 16:08 asciilifeform: if any part of the edifice ever shows any symptom of fully working, they re-fuck it.
1862306;1539526205;billymg;anyhow, any advice for proceeding would be much appreciated (it's entirely possible i'm missing something obvious here)
1862307;1539526228;ave1;diana_coman, place was right, my publish pipeline failed (somehow the final copy operations did not work)
1862308;1539526239;ave1;diana_coman, please try again...
1862309;1539526723;asciilifeform;ave1: i still see old one
1862310;1539526723;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: Sent 1 hour and 25 minutes ago: <lobbes> bot's back. Once auctionbot is finished I will go back and redo the !Qlater tell stuff to sit on top of logbot as well (right now, this too is sitting on an old heathen bot that doesn't auto-authenticate with NickServ after fleanode disconnect shenanigans)
1862311;1539526769;BingoBoingo;billymg: What happens if you try: emerge --ask --changed-use --autounmask-keep-masks --deep @world
1862312;1539526795;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it'll pull in gpg2
1862313;1539526819;asciilifeform;billymg: what you want is emerge --nodeps
1862314;1539526913;asciilifeform;but in the long term, the pill will have to be cuntoo ( which has permanent trinque repo, unaffected by enemy ) ; conventional gentoo should already today be thought of as 'frozen', emerge cannot be relied to work
1862315;1539527089;billymg;BingoBoingo: yeah, i spent a good bit of time trying to update @world this morning, masking packages one-by-one, and eventually gave up
1862316;1539527112;billymg;asciilifeform: thanks, will try
1862317;1539528174;billymg;build fails at configure: error: mcrypt.h not found. Please reinstall libmcrypt.
1862318;1539528181;billymg;and the only version available is the one that wants new portage
1862319;1539528203;billymg;would the next best bet be to install from source, outside of portage?
1862320;1539528286;asciilifeform;billymg: btw were you originally doing the http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/06/getting-php56-and-mysql-to-play-nice-on-arm64-rockchip-gentoo/ recipe ?
1862321;1539528350;billymg;i was not, i was mostly going off http://blog.esthlos.com/mp-wp-setup/
1862322;1539528376;billymg;lemme read that one and see if i missed something
1862323;1539528386;asciilifeform;billymg: try lobbes's thing, if it fails, then yes, will have to from src
1862324;1539528531;ave1;asciilifeform, I get the updated one, maybe caching problem somewhere (I did have to reload)
1862325;1539528596;asciilifeform;ave1: ~nao~ i see new one
1862326;1539528873;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo, mod6 : i'm thinking , i prolly oughta roll the mp-wp prereqs into the standard rk image, in the short term
1862327;1539528885;asciilifeform;given as it seems that erry new user wants'em
1862328;1539528987;asciilifeform;perhaps mp-wp itself, also.
1862329;1539529116;asciilifeform;!Q later tell nicoleci http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862287 << s/pint/point
1862330;1539529116;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 08:34 deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=52 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/11/2018
1862331;1539529116;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1862332;1539529295;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862284 << as i understand, you'll need 2 listeners, on separate ports, if you want'em to go to separate processes, regardless of size setting , aha
1862333;1539529295;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 07:53 diana_coman: in fact the 3rd option that is the one actually to use is having different sizes on the two processes (i.e. different constant simply)
1862334;1539529365;lobbes;!!v 1BC459506CE5EC069FDE57532C95BE95CAB5B1AA1BF10709BA0619A9CDEF8F12
1862335;1539529365;deedbot;lobbes rated auctionbot 1 << my bot
1862336;1539529380;asciilifeform;oh hey
1862337;1539529428;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862311 << btw, i explicitly disrecomment updating rk gentoo from heathen-upstream. it will lead only to tears.
1862338;1539529428;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 14:19 BingoBoingo: billymg: What happens if you try: emerge --ask --changed-use --autounmask-keep-masks --deep @world
1862339;1539529439;asciilifeform;don't emerge --sync, folx!!!
1862340;1539529446;asciilifeform;the upstream is dead !
1862341;1539529468;lobbes;asciilifeform: btw, I'm planning to have auctionbot sit in #eulora, and #trilema-lobbes to start. Would you like it to also sit in #pizarro?
1862342;1539529469;asciilifeform;*disrecommend
1862343;1539529478;asciilifeform;lobbes: would be great, ty
1862344;1539529483;lobbes;o7
1862345;1539529544;lobbes;(to begin, it will not have self-voice capability. Spyked's voicer is for the ircbot branch of the tree sadly, so I will need to add voicing to the logbot branch. However, I figure that can wait for another day)
1862346;1539529729;lobbes;"castle-only" may be the way to go anyways; I'm not sure #trilema even needs the auctionbot to sit in here
1862347;1539529958;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862301 << write an ebuild for your preferred PHP, explain why it's preferred in a blog post on a wpmp instance, and I'll rate you
1862348;1539529958;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 13:59 billymg: it appears that php 5.6.38 is now the only 5.6 php available on the upstream portage repo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/dqRWG/?raw=true
1862349;1539529968;mod6;<+asciilifeform> BingoBoingo, mod6 : i'm thinking , i prolly oughta roll the mp-wp prereqs into the standard rk image, in the short term << sounds alright to me, alf
1862350;1539529999;trinque;(obvs I'm about to ask for a wpmp ebuild, but one step at a time)
1862351;1539530024;trinque;mod6: ha, coincidence.
1862352;1539530968;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862212 << I don't see how I could have shaved off just that rating while fixing the diana_away thing, but if it turns out I did, my apologies
1862353;1539530968;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 04:29 Mocky: oh shit, mircea_popescu unrated me!
1862354;1539531000;trinque;!!up Mocky
1862355;1539531001;deedbot;Mocky voiced for 30 minutes.
1862356;1539531053;trinque;you've still got plenty of ratings to self-voice, but if it turns out I did that, I'll fix it.
1862357;1539531058;Mocky;oh, thx trinque. didn't get around to upping myself, just doing chores atm
1862358;1539531069;Mocky;ok
1862359;1539531169;trinque;checking yesterday's backup.
1862360;1539531891;trinque;Mocky: yep, looks like I trashed it, and I see no corresponding !!unrate. restored. I will make sure there were no other dropped ratings.
1862361;1539531996;diana_coman;ave1, now the sig doesn't verify??
1862362;1539532041;diana_coman;fwiw gpg also complains that it's bad signature
1862363;1539532430;diana_coman;ave1, typos: "opation" "to determin" "here a short list" "therefor" "registor" "zero's" "implentation" "not if statements"
1862364;1539532552;diana_coman;as it is, it will be a .vpatch after the lookup implementation - so linear sequence rather than alternative; you might want to branch the tree instead from *before* the lookup implementation so that your div version is effectively alternative branch
1862365;1539532585;diana_coman;though I don't yet see how would one bring them together afterwards without requiring BOTH of them
1862366;1539532778;asciilifeform;ohai diana_coman
1862367;1539532791;*;diana_coman waves
1862368;1539532803;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i suspect that he forgot to refresh the seal , and that one's from the old ver
1862369;1539532812;diana_coman;myeah
1862370;1539532814;asciilifeform;!!up Mocky
1862371;1539532814;deedbot;Mocky voiced for 30 minutes.
1862372;1539532872;ave1;diana_coman, asciilifeform, well I uploaded both with the same scp line, but did not check. So now again new version (thanks for the typo fixes diana_coman!), I just downloaded both again and verified.
1862373;1539533154;ave1;yes, I see! I will try that too. I have no idea how it could automatically resolve (i.e. How could patch that has your original patch as it's parent ever work on top of this one)
1862374;1539533164;ave1;resolve though
1862375;1539533266;ave1;yes, I see refers to: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862364
1862376;1539533266;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 15:55 diana_coman: as it is, it will be a .vpatch after the lookup implementation - so linear sequence rather than alternative; you might want to branch the tree instead from *before* the lookup implementation so that your div version is effectively alternative branch
1862377;1539533288;diana_coman;this is why I'm still skeptical re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861225
1862378;1539533288;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 18:14 diana_coman: and it fits perfectly the original idea of alternative, proper
1862379;1539533304;diana_coman;asciilifeform, perhaps I'm missing something obvious re ^ ?
1862380;1539533350;diana_coman;i.e. can one effectively branch the v tree to provide an alternative .vpatch i.e. this or that stand at this place in the pressed line?
1862381;1539533355;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the way i understand 'v branching as civilized replacement for #ifdefism', the branches unavoidably gotta get reground whenever the whole tree is considered stable (i.e. no further changes likely to trunk)
1862382;1539533371;asciilifeform;*when
1862383;1539533435;diana_coman;hm, perhaps being a reference implementation it makes sense to remain as branch there and otherwise the tree continues along the main line (not reference)
1862384;1539533452;diana_coman;but other than this, I don't see any need or point for reground
1862385;1539533477;asciilifeform;concretely : ave1 releases crc32 as standalone staticable lib, like my udp. it comes with 2 pressable leaves, 'tabletronic' and 'divtronic'. you can press either and use in e.g. euloratron when building.
1862386;1539533514;diana_coman;ah, you mean that the only way to do this is to take crc32 out of eucrypt tree?
1862387;1539533518;asciilifeform;alternatively, both variants are physically included in euloratron tree, but then the latter has 2 pressable leaves, for the respective variants
1862388;1539533527;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu prefers this style to the other
1862389;1539533531;asciilifeform;lessee when he wakes up
1862390;1539533581;diana_coman;yes, the way I currently see it now is pretty much that: trunk (main line) goes along the production versions of all stuff (crc32 or keccak or whatever else) and otherwise at the respective points there can be additional branches /leaves with the reference implementations
1862391;1539533613;diana_coman;I honestly don't quite see the point of taking crc32 out for instance
1862392;1539533642;diana_coman;or keccak or whatever, basically making 5 tiny trees out of eucrypt tree
1862393;1539533665;asciilifeform;part of the exercise here is to purge head of the last vestiges of dark ages 'merge-istic' versiontronics . who wants variants, gotta remember that yer pressing variants built on specific states of the trunk. ( and if trunk meanwhile changed, and you still want it, must regrind )
1862394;1539533800;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc mircea_popescu in particular specifically hates libs-as-separate-trees, insists that proggy oughta include errything it eats. ( i dun recall whether he answered why it should not also then include the os and compiler also in same genesis, but i'ma leave thread alone for nao)
1862395;1539533866;asciilifeform;he had a pretty good arg imho, tho, that when you write on top of a specific lib, you oughta freeze it in, rather than permit it to change 'under you' at any point.
1862396;1539533884;diana_coman;to my mind that's pretty much the reason, yes
1862397;1539533938;asciilifeform;imho 'unifiers' (i.e. patch that pulls in specific state from a parallel tree) is a cleaner way of accomplishing this than cut&paste, but i was unable to persuade.
1862398;1539534039;diana_coman;ave1, thanks, it verifies fine now!
1862399;1539534041;ave1;as for an alternative branch; http://ave1.org/code/eucrypt/eucrypt_crc32_divtronic.vpatch.ave1.sig and http://ave1.org/code/eucrypt/eucrypt_crc32_divtronic.vpatch.
1862400;1539534074;diana_coman;asciilifeform, trouble is - what do you do then when/if that tree gets reground?
1862401;1539534083;diana_coman;basically you introduce tree dependencies?
1862402;1539534102;asciilifeform;diana_coman: you carry with your proggy, the specific one you built on
1862403;1539534121;asciilifeform;author can regrind all he wants, you are not forced to regrind yours unless you think it merits
1862404;1539534145;diana_coman;maybe I didn't understand then what you mean by "patch that pulls in specific state from a parallel tree"
1862405;1539534204;asciilifeform;diana_coman: my orig v algo supported unlimited 'genesis'-en
1862406;1539534256;asciilifeform;so it was possible to write a proggy that used items from multiple trees.
1862407;1539534301;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu specifically barfed , tho, and nobody any moar does this. so for nao yer stuck with cut&pasteism, as i understand.
1862408;1539534311;diana_coman;and then you are stuck maintaining those multiple trees - what's the benefit in that?
1862409;1539534322;asciilifeform;you're stuck with it even now.
1862410;1539534339;asciilifeform;the diff was that the history was preserved, as opposed to painted over with cut&paste.
1862411;1539534343;diana_coman;once you bring it into your tree, you don't care about the original tree so ...how stuck?
1862412;1539534378;asciilifeform;that's where we differ, i think. my whole notion in inventing vtronics was to preserve all history that can be practically preserved.
1862413;1539534420;diana_coman;I can see the history is preserved angle, certainly; and a nice thing for sure; but there is a cost for it and I'm not sure the benefits make up for it
1862414;1539534449;diana_coman;I think the difference might be at whether it is "practical" or not :)
1862415;1539534507;asciilifeform;to bring thread back to current-day -- afaik the only means to implement alternative builds, in current scheme, is 2 (or moar) pressable leaves in erry 'release' ver.
1862416;1539534522;asciilifeform;and yes they'd have to be reground regularly.
1862417;1539534554;asciilifeform;ada deliberately does not offer equiv of #ifdef, because ifdefism is retarded. so you're left with this method, afaik.
1862418;1539534628;asciilifeform;and ideally erry 'alt' variant has a maintainer, who will regrind so that his variant continues to be usable .
1862419;1539534662;diana_coman;that actually makes sense
1862420;1539534674;asciilifeform;it is painful, but prolly the Right Thing.
1862421;1539534714;asciilifeform;in that it prevents the combinatorial clusterfucks that ifdefism causes
1862422;1539534729;asciilifeform;and instead each variant is a thing that its author is forced to actually test as-written.
1862423;1539534959;ave1;hey, I was just thinking the same thing offline, so yes I think the new method is sane as it preserves authorship and no magic alternative could be inserted somewhere halfway the tree.
1862424;1539535043;asciilifeform;ave1: which method is this referring to ?
1862425;1539535078;ave1;with the manifest as we have now and no way to automatically merge an alternative (i.e. having more than one possible ancestor)
1862426;1539535115;asciilifeform;ave1: no published vtron ever permitted 'more than one possible ancestor'
1862427;1539535122;asciilifeform;it'd defeat whole point of v.
1862428;1539535163;asciilifeform;all presses are deterministic , a particular leaf produces a particular press.
1862429;1539535218;asciilifeform;when you want alternative presses, you gotta have multiple pressable leaves, elementarily.
1862430;1539535231;ave1;well, if I have file A and B, and p1 touches A and B, and p2 touches A in the same way as p1 but B differently
1862431;1539535254;ave1;then p3 touches A
1862432;1539535277;asciilifeform;then p1, p2, p3 are alternative and mutually-exclusive pressable leaves.
1862433;1539535281;asciilifeform;there is no ambiguity.
1862434;1539535292;ave1;sorry p3 touches the A as it is after p1
1862435;1539535321;ave1;so p1 -> p3 intended
1862436;1539535336;ave1;but p2 -> p3 also possible it seems to me
1862437;1539535359;asciilifeform;how ?
1862438;1539535392;ave1;the vpatches are checked on the sha512/keccak sums of the files
1862439;1539535403;asciilifeform;trinque & mircea_popescu specifically introduces manifests to prevent this scenario.
1862440;1539535416;asciilifeform;( previously it was possible to arrive at it by accident )
1862441;1539535442;ave1;yes, I know, but you asked about the senario; no published vtron permitted...
1862442;1539535453;asciilifeform;aa i see what ave1 meant
1862443;1539535517;asciilifeform;in orig vtron i relied on 'muscle power' to avoid this boojum, it proved insufficient; hence manifests.
1862444;1539535557;asciilifeform;in current day vtrons you gotta explicitly bake pressable leaves if you want alternatives.
1862445;1539535609;ave1;I was still on the "automagic" way to choose either the lookup or the divtronic CRC32. Whis will never be automagic, authors just have to work on 2 different threes if they want and let the longest one survive.
1862446;1539535629;ave1;Whis -> This, threes -> trees
1862447;1539535647;asciilifeform;aha
1862448;1539535671;asciilifeform;this is the Right Thing, i.e. if you want a variant to exist, you gotta maintain it.
1862449;1539535682;ave1;yes
1862450;1539535738;ave1;btw, I'm still interested in the single size ethernet packages (I propably misunderstood) but unfortunately have to bbl
1862451;1539535778;asciilifeform;ave1: there is not much to be said further re subj, i looked into what actually comes out of my lan, it sends 1500 frames upstream always.
1862452;1539535815;asciilifeform;( and yes on paper ~could~ send shorter ones, but actual iron afaik never does )
1862453;1539535972;asciilifeform;best analogy, imho, is sov train carriages. it is possible to make train carriage of many lengths, but they had 1 . so if cargo were smaller, it'd get packed in with other things, or sometimes partially empty car, but short car would not be specially built for shorter crate.
1862454;1539536044;asciilifeform;on 1 occasion it was found necessary to build a icbm rocket that is too heavy for 1 car. head designer v. f. utkin found solution, he had a system of springs to distribute the weight between ~two~ cars. this is analogous to udp fraggism.
1862455;1539536170;asciilifeform;http://militaryarms.ru/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/bzhrk-molodec-i-barguzin.jpg << subj.
1862456;1539536228;asciilifeform;^ the gizmo on the right, was a hydraulic thing to push any electric wires above the tracks, out of the way. whole thing was pretty clever.
1862457;1539536240;asciilifeform;( tho expensive. )
1862458;1539536365;asciilifeform;and notably, by some accounts the 'distribute the mass' gizmo did not actually work very well, hence why the thing was eventually scrapped. ( and not because 'usa asked eltsin nicely', as was the popular legend at the time )
1862459;1539536381;asciilifeform;it destroyed tracks.
1862460;1539536647;asciilifeform;but let's suppose utkin had instead built a rocket that occupies all but one metre of standard rail car. i suspect that it would not have been received warmly by the brass, and at the very least they'd ask why, 'what will go in that free metre of car ? tinned fish ?'
1862461;1539536695;asciilifeform;this is prolly as far as the analogy goes, so i'ma leave it there.
1862462;1539538414;Mocky;!!reputation
1862463;1539538416;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SAbQF/?raw=true
1862464;1539538461;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862360 >> does 'restored' mean it should be in there now trinque? I don't see it.
1862465;1539538461;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 15:44 trinque: Mocky: yep, looks like I trashed it, and I see no corresponding !!unrate. restored. I will make sure there were no other dropped ratings.
1862466;1539538574;trinque;Mocky: herp, wrong db. it's there now.
1862467;1539538577;trinque;!!reputation
1862468;1539538579;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hkbOo/?raw=true
1862469;1539538581;trinque;!!reputation Mocky
1862470;1539538583;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DcRRL/?raw=true
1862471;1539538598;Mocky;thx!
1862472;1539538721;trinque;got the note back in there now too
1862473;1539538807;trinque;purged a few pieces of technical debt lingering from the rapid prototype I built during the schism. sorry to have made you a casualty of the purge!
1862474;1539538845;trinque;wot.deedbot.org will update too before long
1862475;1539538881;trinque;(also will no longer suffer from pages being overwritten due to same fp, since dupe fp is banned)
1862476;1539540336;asciilifeform;trinque: unrelatedly, i resolved the binary-types thing, will eventually genesis a working ver.
1862477;1539540357;trinque;congrats!
1862478;1539540369;asciilifeform;i'd eventually like to be rid of asdf tho.
1862479;1539540375;asciilifeform;it's pretty sad.
1862480;1539540853;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861273 << largeish place, live music of poor quality on the first floor, asciilifeform and i had the top balcony to ourselves for an hour at least
1862481;1539540853;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 18:46 asciilifeform: nope, definitely ben_vulpes
1862482;1539541019;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862478 i lost a few hours to cl-postgres/postmodern/simple date over the past two months; there is now some cl-postgres-simple-date-glue package that needs loading in order for postmodern to use its local-date set of classes. once upon a time loading simple-date after cl-postgres was enough to get the mechanisms in place.
1862483;1539541019;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 18:06 asciilifeform: i'd eventually like to be rid of asdf tho.
1862484;1539541077;ben_vulpes;i've since just cut over to using postgres' own godly datetime knobs because a) better in every way b) works with timezones trivially
1862485;1539541175;ben_vulpes;fence is done, transpocubes for possesions arrive tomorrow. house still unleased and one car yet needing transportation scheduled. other than that, girl and child fly out soon, and i drive out with dog shortly before.
1862486;1539543095;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, didja ever post yer cl block/tx eater src ? i seem to recall that you did, but can't presently find in l0gz
1862487;1539543226;ben_vulpes;i'm sure that i did but cannot recall where immediately, sec
1862488;1539543551;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: www.cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/blockparser.tgz
1862489;1539543558;ben_vulpes;c6f427266725bc5166979cdee5010a7cf417fa788b87e1a05f430f07fdc52719cf697d71730a498fa12faea302908fbf34ea616079530a30dbd88fb00cafb8f7
1862490;1539543580;ben_vulpes;it is pretty novice cl; heavily java-flavored clos
1862491;1539543582;asciilifeform;ty ben_vulpes
1862492;1539543589;ben_vulpes;apologies for the stink
1862493;1539543633;asciilifeform;dun need to be battlefield-grade, simply wanted to see how ben_vulpes did it, ty
1862494;1539543837;asciilifeform;( recall, i have my own working block eater in ada, posted last yr, but currently was looking into 'binary-types' in application to btc trad encoding )
1862495;1539543912;asciilifeform;the particular experiment here is a node exerciser, rather than block eater, in cl
1862496;1539543959;ben_vulpes;reading satoshi's varint gave me no ends of headaches with binary-types, i eventually cheated out
1862497;1539543966;asciilifeform;( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861234 for what/why )
1862498;1539543966;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 18:18 asciilifeform: the 1 'litmus test' i was able to think of , is the 'i pick a block hash and you gimme the block in <1s' algo.
1862499;1539543968;asciilifeform;ah
1862500;1539544058;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1862501;1539548656;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-release-with-working-keccak/ << esthlos - esthlos-v: Release with Working Keccak
1862502;1539549653;billymg;trinque: thanks for the tip about custom ebuilds. was able to do a local ebuild of the libmcrypt dep by taking what was in upstream and just changing the EAPI version to 6. installed fine, and then php-5.6.38 went fine as well
1862503;1539549687;trinque;billymg: hold onto that new ebuild for cuntoo.
1862504;1539549698;trinque;we'll need it for a wpmp ebuild
1862505;1539549716;billymg;about to step out for a bit but have been keeping notes and will put together a writeup after mp-wp is successfully pressed/running
1862506;1539549726;billymg;trinque: will do
1862507;1539550309;BingoBoingo;billymg: With mp-wp the three most common sources of headbanging are: file and directory permissions, .htaccess (if running apache), and pressing into a populated direction (As in you press, aren't sure anything happened and press again into the output directory without cleansing it; prevalence of this one depends on particular v-tron used))
1862508;1539550433;billymg;BingoBoingo: ah, that's good to know
1862509;1539550436;billymg;ty
1862510;1539550919;BingoBoingo;billymg: Have fun
1862511;1539551694;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/10/auctionbot-is-live/ << lobbesblog - auctionbot is live
1862512;1539551763;lobbes;^^ auctionbot (with reverse auction functionality) is now live
1862513;1539551782;lobbes;I will be monitoring it to make sure everything is running smoothly. Let me know of any funkyness
1862514;1539551814;lobbes;for the time being, the legacy auctionbot (lobbesbot's !Qauction) will remain up and running as well
1862515;1539551844;lobbes;eventually will take it offline and merge its data into this new bot, but that is later
1862516;1539551862;*;lobbes bbl
1862517;1539558847;hanbot;BingoBoingo re remittance shits, i found something here, going to investigate tomorrow if it'll do .uy; will update.
1862518;1539559014;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Thank you. I haven't found anything promising here yet.
1862519;1539562662;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862183 << no, i don't use portability packages in my own code (they are the hole through which the darkness comes), and when something pulls it as a dependency, it comes from quicklisp
1862520;1539562662;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 23:31 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf wouldja happen to have a frozen nonretarded version of bordeaux-threads somewhere ? the one i have, is utterly sad, squats nickname 'bt' which prevents binary-types from working...
1862521;1539562747;phf;out of curiousity i went through the log, and bordeaux-threads had that bt nickname pretty much since creation, in 2006
1862522;1539562821;phf;(btcbase uses 0.8.5, though i might have an older version somewhere on backup drives)
1862523;1539562832;asciilifeform;phf: imho it is retarded that packages can conflict
1862524;1539562847;asciilifeform;i dun see why it ougta be possible, period
1862525;1539562899;asciilifeform;( and afaik in ada -- it aint )
1862526;1539562944;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862519 << i dun want to marry sbcl.. is this so much to ask
1862527;1539562944;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 00:17 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862183 << no, i don't use portability packages in my own code (they are the hole through which the darkness comes), and when something pulls it as a dependency, it comes from quicklisp
1862528;1539562984;asciilifeform;( prolly The Right Thing then is to write own compat layers. for errything. but only 2 hands,sadly )
1862529;1539563013;phf;asciilifeform: well, a portability layer is the ultimate ifdef, and in this case worse written by somebody else
1862530;1539563034;asciilifeform;that, it is
1862531;1539563094;phf;one of the major wtfs when reading asdf code, is that when all the ifdef's fall through, hte system falls back to some seriously questionable solutions, like shelling out to unix level with elaborate commands (i don't remember the example, but it's almost like "mkdir {} && cd ..." type stuff)
1862532;1539563094;asciilifeform;it's actually one of the reasons i haven't ever finished rewrite of phuctor in cl. erry time i sat down to do it, barfed on one of these things
1862533;1539563128;phf;but you would never know, because in sbcl it generally does the right thing
1862534;1539563155;asciilifeform;right, they're mostly skins on sbcl, to the extent they work at all
1862535;1539563230;phf;well, after reading the CADR documentation, source code and generally spending more time on a lisp machine, i realized that modern common lisp is a cargo cult. i'm not sure how naggum didn't see it, but possibly because his lisp was emacs/cmucl/franz
1862536;1539563255;asciilifeform;aha, he had his paid allegro
1862537;1539563273;phf;it's a compatability layer between lisp machines, and as such provides a minimum of coverage of common functionality.
1862538;1539563273;asciilifeform;and it , afaik, worked 'like white man's tech' or near.
1862539;1539563313;asciilifeform;my impression was that allegro did 'all them things not in the standard' and actually did them well.
1862540;1539563327;asciilifeform;so he never had to eat the compat layer liquishit.
1862541;1539563384;phf;yeah, pretty much. a totally different experience from, say, sbcl, and a lot closer to a real lisp machine too. comes with all the things builtin, so you never really need to touch outside world
1862542;1539563435;asciilifeform;prolly the eventual Right Thing will be when we proclaim a republican cltron and start massaging it to eventually climb to that level.
1862543;1539563447;phf;right
1862544;1539563507;asciilifeform;and sbcl aint it. i'd prefer something like kyoto, or which ever was the absolute shortest that implemented whole standard, for starting point
1862545;1539563566;phf;i suspect you might discover it to be same kind of situation as tinyscheme
1862546;1539563586;asciilifeform;actually looking at my notes from ages past, i did, and did.
1862547;1539563589;asciilifeform;sadly.
1862548;1539563646;asciilifeform;would like to find something actually readable, at least, if not buildable-on.
1862549;1539563655;asciilifeform;but even this may be too much to hope.
1862550;1539564097;asciilifeform;phf: context : i was baking a noad walker / torturer, orig in python, little thing, thought it would be doable in a day or 2; then found that mass of prb etc all break protocol in 9000 interesting ways, an extra byte here an' there, and realized that it aint doable without adult condition handling/restarts, which means cl.
1862551;1539564207;phf;aah
1862552;1539564353;phf;yeah, i wrote a small subset of bitcoin protocol in lisp, but rolled my own binary types. i think i can ask for version, and i can also ask for peers, and i started on getblock functionality..
1862553;1539564376;asciilifeform;that's approx where i left off, aha
1862554;1539564411;asciilifeform;worx ok with trb. but heathens do all kinds of weird things, throw up various garbage in place of e.g. getaddr answer
1862555;1539564421;asciilifeform;or disconnect in the middle of things, etc
1862556;1539564556;asciilifeform;phf: i was aiming for 3 basic things : 1) recursively getaddr entire reachable btc net, perhaps erry hour or so 2) find trb-compat (i.e. 'services' == 1 ) non-pseudos (i.e. if i pull block hash out of a hat, he quickly gives correct block) and eventually 3) get inv's and monitor tx propagations.
1862557;1539564673;asciilifeform;the heathen node-viewing www's systematically lie, e.g. conceal 'too old' clients , present fucking pseudos as if they were actual nodes, and commit other war crimes
1862558;1539564703;asciilifeform;i'd like a (ideally real-time) picture of the actual network.
1862559;1539564889;asciilifeform;this line of thought was prompted by my 'trb observatory', which has uncovered a number of 'mpb'-style nodes, i.e. trb-like but not presenting 'modern' vers and therefore invisible from heathen www indices
1862560;1539564892;phf;i wonder what sort of technology those heathen node walkers use, i.e. if it's a patched up bitcoin client, or if they have own protocol parsers. seems like too much serious know how for the later
1862561;1539564933;asciilifeform;phf: hell knows, prolly kilometres of java
1862562;1539564957;asciilifeform;written in bangalore
1862563;1539564982;asciilifeform;with 9000-deep of-else'en.
1862564;1539564992;asciilifeform;*if
1862565;1539565084;asciilifeform;phf: essence of hypothesis, is that the ~actual~ bitcoin network looks nothing at all like what 'nodes.io' or other heathen scamola, try to pass off
1862566;1539565228;asciilifeform;for instance, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1859945 may or may not be factual
1862567;1539565228;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 01:22 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/ltRHd << per same, of the 4 public noadez in BingoBoingostan, 3 are in pizarro
1862568;1539565245;asciilifeform;and i'd like to know .
1862569;1539565265;asciilifeform;and really, all of romania is solid prb ??
1862570;1539565272;asciilifeform;difficult to believe.
1862571;1539565315;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I have come around to thinking of the process that leads to this "wished helplessness"
1862572;1539565328;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: hm?
1862573;1539565329;phf;lol, i accidentally pasted that archive url without the d, https://archive.is/ltRH
1862574;1539565345;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Bingostan having 4 public nodes
1862575;1539565353;asciilifeform;ahahahahaha phf
1862576;1539565368;asciilifeform;i wonder what other spamola lurks.
1862577;1539565372;BingoBoingo;"wished helplessness" goes with hallucinated optionality
1862578;1539565385;phf;i was like "wtf, kind of shit ascii accidentally pasted instead of the real url" :p
1862579;1539565398;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: point was, the observation came from heathen site known to systematically lie
1862580;1539565410;asciilifeform;phf: lol
1862581;1539565456;asciilifeform;for non-ru folx, procrusted link goes to a thing re an anti-faggotry protest in ukrlandia
1862582;1539565533;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, if they wish hard enough they don't have to not lie
1862583;1539565541;BingoBoingo;Who is going to check their work?
1862584;1539565575;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it's an empty niche, sorta like phuctor's pre-phuctor
1862585;1539565616;asciilifeform;plenty of scamola artists who supposedly catalogue nodes, but all with 9000 seekrit filters, and present liquishit as if it were noad
1862586;1539565633;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Right, it is a niggers.txt.xls document
1862587;1539566038;phf;so it looks like bvt is correct, there's no way to make ada's Create throw an exception if the file already exists
1862588;1539566042;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile, in the meme front: http://archive.is/vExuu
1862589;1539566054;phf;is it the NPC meme?
1862590;1539566072;BingoBoingo;phf: it is the NPC meme vs the Russian bot meme
1862591;1539566142;phf;we're way down the rabbit hole here
1862592;1539566152;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol!! where's this one from
1862593;1539566182;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Found on the return of kink guy's forum. Apparently was originally found on twitter.
1862594;1539566203;BingoBoingo;Authorship unknown.
1862595;1539567437;ben_vulpes;mod6 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the remaining stateside fuckgoats are packed in a specific box that i will relocate with my person.
1862596;1539567452;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: Sweet
1862597;1539567748;phf;bvt: your patch has "Binary files..." at the very end of it. i assume it wasn't made with vdiff
1862598;1539567763;phf;!Qlater bvt ^
1862599;1539567779;phf;!Q later tell bvt ^^
1862600;1539567779;lobbesbot;phf: The operation succeeded.
1862601;1539567975;phf;the other thing, and that's somewhat of a personal preference, i think Create_Temporary_File should either act identical to create or be called something else. right now it clashes with ada's naming convention
1862602;1539568068;phf;(when i proposed the name i was thinking that it will be a wrapper around http://www.ada-auth.org/standards/rm12_w_tc1/html/RM-A-8-1.html#p6
1862603;1539568239;phf;but without the name, so you call it, and you get an open file right away, rather than dragging around a useless name)
1862604;1539568394;phf;oh i guess i see why that would be tricky, because of the specialization. i don't know enough ada yet to know how to fix that... perhaps just renaming it to Temporary_File is sufficient
1862605;1539568447;phf;!!key bvt
1862606;1539568448;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/6CF3EFF892A7F23E7E798E5EBA6B8C054B962B68.asc
1862607;1539569624;phf;i like how C 2012 standard says that x flag works "to the extent that the underlying system supports exclusivity". of course no indication when it doesn't..
1862608;1539569874;phf;diana_coman: i've updated eucrypt to keccak, i also added ave1's patch there. also brought udp up to date.
1862609;1539569960;phf;the graph appears to be complete, and the project also presses, thank you for jumping through all the hoops!
1862610;1539570130;deedbot;http://bingology.net/2018/10/14/that-one-agricultural-product-and-uruguay/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - That One Agricultural Product And Uruguay
1862611;1539570646;asciilifeform;phf: in other lulz, yet another ivory on lulzbay
1862612;1539570660;asciilifeform;( from same place as ~always )
1862613;1539570729;asciilifeform;lol apparently ~1h left on it
1862614;1539570955;phf;the gift that keeps on giving
1862615;1539571109;asciilifeform;phf: i'm still waiting for those archaeological finds phf hinted at 2y ago...
1862616;1539571453;phf;asciilifeform: i actually forgot! i'm swamped right now, but can you remind me again in about two weeks, i have a thing for you from the dig that will help with the little piece of silicon you have
1862617;1539571494;asciilifeform;ty phf, will remind.
1862618;1539571928;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862213 << im not entertaining the nonsense. will not make different packets of very strictly disjunct content same size to humor software engineer naivitees masquerading as prime principles.
1862619;1539571928;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 04:30 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1862167 >> I don't see how it would necessarily be any simpler aside from one `if` statement. And there's nothing to stop listening on separate ports and getting all benefits asciilifeform mentions with different sizes
1862620;1539572020;mircea_popescu;there's exactly nothing similar between rsa packet and serpent packet. for the same money could ask to have busses and flour delivered in single container.
1862621;1539572137;asciilifeform;funnily enuff , i have 2L bottles of both water and kerosene, dun rely on purely size to distinguish. but mircea_popescu can write his proggy however he wants.
1862622;1539572170;mircea_popescu;what, you taste first each time you open bottle ?
1862623;1539572203;asciilifeform;labels .
1862624;1539572215;asciilifeform;( and smell, lol, but that comes 2nd )
1862625;1539572247;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862282 << nah, you'd have two threads running, one taking packets type 1 and the other taking packets type 2. if it's expedient to use 2 ports, use 2 ports, np.
1862626;1539572247;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 07:49 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862213 -> it's more than just one if statement (although unnecessary branches in themselves are not great anyway); basically it's the udp code itself that has to be messed up to accommodate this particular thing - either using generic or otherwise using the largest of the two and then filtering one level higher
1862627;1539572255;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's no such thing as label in context.
1862628;1539572267;asciilifeform;nah you have it, 2 ports.
1862629;1539572281;mircea_popescu;in fact, this is precisely what you're objecting to, "why should kerosene bottle have a slightly taller red cap, should have exact same cap as water bottle!"
1862630;1539572293;asciilifeform;sorta makes the thread redundant, as diana_coman pointed out, you can still use fixed receivers.
1862631;1539572321;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not redundant because the rsa processor is "best effort", ie, only goes if there's spacetime in machine
1862632;1539572341;asciilifeform;well yes, it's a separate process, you nice 19 it
1862633;1539572354;asciilifeform;loox simple enuff
1862634;1539572356;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862284 << yep, this was precisely the idea.
1862635;1539572356;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 07:53 diana_coman: in fact the 3rd option that is the one actually to use is having different sizes on the two processes (i.e. different constant simply)
1862636;1539572381;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i possibly dun wanna drag the nice thing into it, but i dunno, way too early to optimize this partuclar pile.
1862637;1539572386;*;asciilifeform doesn't disagree
1862638;1539572477;mircea_popescu;bvt "Ada exposes no functions that have 'exclusive open' semantics, so I imported C
1862639;1539572477;mircea_popescu;functions to make this functionality available." << im not so crazy about this approach, but hey. if it links it links.
1862640;1539572533;asciilifeform;and if even also runs, even better!1
1862641;1539572545;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862295 << bootstrapping problem, he has to get vtools compiled to press mp-wp to install it on the rk he already bought.
1862642;1539572545;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 11:56 diana_coman: bvt, get yourself a pizarro shared account and start your blog there precisely with those pastes, what's keeping you?
1862643;1539572589;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862300 << o.O that was quicker than expected...
1862644;1539572589;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 12:55 lobbes: and speaking of auctionbot: development is complete. At the moment I am getting ready to begin some prod testing and then all that's left is to write the blog post explaining the usage. Getting close!
1862645;1539572596;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'ma switch to issuing cuntoo for new pilot rk folx as soon as trinque is finished birthing it
1862646;1539572628;asciilifeform;so nomoar 'with what do i press vtron' , 'where is php', etc
1862647;1539572634;mircea_popescu;does it have either vtools or mp-wp ?
1862648;1539572648;asciilifeform;by all rights gotta
1862649;1539572655;asciilifeform;at the very least vtools
1862650;1539572686;asciilifeform;( sorta whole idea behind cuntoo )
1862651;1539572718;trinque;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862503
1862652;1539572718;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 20:41 trinque: billymg: hold onto that new ebuild for cuntoo.
1862653;1539572777;*;asciilifeform brb
1862654;1539572779;trinque;asciilifeform: what's left is finishing ebuilding-up phf's vtools, then release
1862655;1539573599;phf;trinque: are you waiting on delete/rename or you have your own things to work on?
1862656;1539573800;trinque;not blocked on anything afaik, improvements to vtools can come in as another patch for the ebuild tree
1862657;1539573810;phf;ok, good
1862658;1539573850;phf;i don't think i'll be able to cut rename tonight, and then i'll be busy until friday, though will try to steal an hour here and there
1862659;1539574858;mircea_popescu;win.
1862660;1539574963;*;mircea_popescu has been watching nude girlies dancing with mops and detailing floors on all fours (+high heels! who else has platform houseshoes?!) all day, is in a pretty great mood.
1862661;1539575123;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in lulz, https://elonm.ru/
1862662;1539575265;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862346 << wait, what ?
1862663;1539575265;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 15:08 lobbes: "castle-only" may be the way to go anyways; I'm not sure #trilema even needs the auctionbot to sit in here
1862664;1539575401;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862352 << i see it ? http://archive.is/Bxyso#selection-549.1-549.3
1862665;1539575401;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 15:29 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862212 << I don't see how I could have shaved off just that rating while fixing the diana_away thing, but if it turns out I did, my apologies
1862666;1539575405;mircea_popescu;!!rated mocky
1862667;1539575405;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated mocky 3 at 2018/10/10 16:39:15 << Mocky Habeeb. Wrote a book on Amazon DB ; works for infraWise (which is pretty lulzy, but don't hold it against him).
1862668;1539575417;mircea_popescu;!#s "!!rate Mocky"
1862669;1539575418;a111;8 results for "\"!!rate Mocky\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22!!rate%20Mocky%22
1862670;1539575488;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: trinque fixed
1862671;1539575503;mircea_popescu;confirmed!
1862672;1539575546;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862364 << this is important. ave1 you understand the difference ?
1862673;1539575546;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 15:55 diana_coman: as it is, it will be a .vpatch after the lookup implementation - so linear sequence rather than alternative; you might want to branch the tree instead from *before* the lookup implementation so that your div version is effectively alternative branch
1862674;1539575678;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862386 << not at all! there's two possible ways to implement crc32 : with lookup tables, and with plain division. these are mutually exclusive. type 1 is faster, and therefore mainline. type 2 is smaller, and therefore of interest in certain contexts. therefore, at leaf=n, one has to chose : either n+1 type 1, or else n+1 type 2.
1862675;1539575678;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:11 diana_coman: ah, you mean that the only way to do this is to take crc32 out of eucrypt tree?
1862676;1539575735;mircea_popescu;the leaves downstream from EACH n1 needn't be identical, nor needn't be different. in effect, the tree now has TWO groups of maintainers : those who maintain type 2 tree, for embeds, will not === those who maintain type 1 tree, for general use.
1862677;1539575763;mircea_popescu;IF the groups ever diverge absolutely, they MIGHT eventually re-genesis the thing, making all leaves 1...n into a unified genesis and continuing from there.
1862678;1539575787;mircea_popescu;but while there's overlap of people contributing to both type 1 and type 2 branches, it's more likely the situation will continue unground.
1862679;1539575840;mircea_popescu;in any case, type1 might get i dunno, later-patch-taking-advantage-of-ddram whereas type 2 might get later-patch-needed-for-old-arms etc.
1862680;1539575850;mircea_popescu;is any of this unclear at all ?
1862681;1539575912;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862391 << i have no idea what you mean by this "taking out" expression.
1862682;1539575912;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:13 diana_coman: I honestly don't quite see the point of taking crc32 out for instance
1862683;1539576037;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862394 << that's the discussion as to how "of course everything eventually merges into single tree".
1862684;1539576037;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:16 asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc mircea_popescu in particular specifically hates libs-as-separate-trees, insists that proggy oughta include errything it eats. ( i dun recall whether he answered why it should not also then include the os and compiler also in same genesis, but i'ma leave thread alone for nao)
1862685;1539576049;mircea_popescu;kinda the fucking point, building yggdrasil over here.
1862686;1539576205;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862397 << because cut-and-paste was never contemplated as a possible alternative, it was read-and-rewrite. because moving from one tree to another is exactly translation, one must bear in mind context and only implement ~the algo~. consider how we got crc32 -- we did NOT cut-and-paste from anywhere. diana RE WROTE IT!
1862687;1539576205;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:18 asciilifeform: imho 'unifiers' (i.e. patch that pulls in specific state from a parallel tree) is a cleaner way of accomplishing this than cut&paste, but i was unable to persuade.
1862688;1539576277;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862400 << #1 thing you do, is you TALK TO PEOPLE! there is no jwz way out of politics. if regrind hurts you, tell them not to fucking do it ; and if they won't listen tell whoever will listen to not follow the new thing. and so fucking on.
1862689;1539576277;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:21 diana_coman: asciilifeform, trouble is - what do you do then when/if that tree gets reground?
1862690;1539576289;asciilifeform;iirc crc lifted directly from old gnat
1862691;1539576299;mircea_popescu;v-tree lives through wot and through wot alone, it's not some kind of self contained magic.
1862692;1539576323;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not afaik.
1862693;1539576335;asciilifeform;diana_coman's, i mean
1862694;1539576346;asciilifeform;ave1's is new
1862695;1539576400;mircea_popescu;to quote, \"As usual, the forum quickly pointed me in the right direction - thank you ave1! - namely looking under the hood of course, in this case GNAT's own hood, the Systems.CRC32 package. Still, this package makes a whole dance of eating one single character at a time since it is written precisely to support the stream monstrosity on top rather than to support the user with what they might indeed need. Happily though, CRC
1862696;1539576400;mircea_popescu;32 is a very simple thing and absolutely easy to lift and package into 52 lines of code in the .adb file + 130 in the .ads file so 182 all in total1, comments and two types of input (string or raw array of octets) included."
1862697;1539576413;mircea_popescu;this is 100% "read and rewrite" and entirely and absolutely NOT copy/paste.
1862698;1539576432;asciilifeform;i do believe that diana_coman read.
1862699;1539576441;asciilifeform;( orig item http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858544 )
1862700;1539576441;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 16:21 asciilifeform: diana_coman: https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/s-crc32__adb.htm << pretty simple, you can even lift and civilize
1862701;1539576457;mircea_popescu;this is what's contemplated here.
1862702;1539576458;asciilifeform;possibly puzzled re what counts as 'rewrite' tho
1862703;1539576481;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the act of outputting a text.
1862704;1539576493;asciilifeform;( when i rewrite , i actually start with empty buffer, but that could be just me )
1862705;1539576614;mircea_popescu;i imagine it's just you. http://trilema.com/2012/runcible-doom/ << example rewrite. i did not start with empty buffer, nor does it matter any if you do.
1862706;1539576645;mircea_popescu;nor does such a thing as "empty buffer" truly exist, nor is it any kind of substantial distinction, and so on.
1862707;1539576702;mircea_popescu;imo this "empty buffer" notion is leftover implanted brain electrode from ustard academia/schooling. "oh, gotta be original". no such fucking thing ; and the only reason they talk about it is to keep intelligent people from doing important work.
1862708;1539576728;mircea_popescu;the rest of the discussion is in http://trilema.com/2015/mps-very-brief-foray-into-a-poetry-forum/
1862709;1539576792;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no 'originality' contemplated, referring to simple act of using empty page. y'know, like in '80s when keying in gamez from mk61 b00k
1862710;1539576798;mircea_popescu;even if what you end up writing down is 100% exactly identical to the original, nevertheless IT IS STILL A REWRITE, especially if the original is heathen -- as per "idiots may not have ideas" doctrine. http://trilema.com/2014/pro-idiotas-which-obviously-means-people-who-have-ideas-ie-idiots/#selection-145.129-145.542 and all that.
1862711;1539576829;mircea_popescu;whereas in cases like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860859 it is strictly evident both items were written, notwithstanding both identical.
1862712;1539576829;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
1862713;1539576880;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in the end we could phrase it as "some rewriters -- deeper than others".
1862714;1539576887;mircea_popescu;rewrites*
1862715;1539576924;asciilifeform;right. and the actual extent of rewritism is not necessarily visible to thirdparty, it is b/w the rewriter and odin, really
1862716;1539576951;asciilifeform;often enuff will end up with ~same txt
1862717;1539577022;mircea_popescu;in fact, a very solid basis for respect is, "whenever i sit down to rewrite x, i end up writing what he wrote ; whereas whenever i sit down to rewrite y, i end up using empty page. thus therefore x is rated 5 and y -10"
1862718;1539577058;mircea_popescu;wtf is signing a vpatch than "i sat down to rewrite $author's work and came to his exact text, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1860859 style. therefore i undersign."
1862719;1539577058;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 14:40 ave1: also at same time pasted
1862720;1539577130;mircea_popescu;in any case historically this ~exact process~ is how eg djb ended up with the modicum of respect he then proceeded to squander.
1862721;1539577144;mircea_popescu;or whatever-other-name.
1862722;1539577204;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862408 << the benefit is that if they are legitimate multi, then there's different context which is well handled ; and if they are illegitimate (in the sense of, no context to well handle) there's pressure there to collapse.
1862723;1539577204;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:25 diana_coman: and then you are stuck maintaining those multiple trees - what's the benefit in that?
1862724;1539577231;mircea_popescu;which is the fucking problem with current versioning systems, they encourage illegitimate context creation, of the sort of "i need to publish or perish therefore let us rename biology and rediscover it".
1862725;1539577318;mircea_popescu;eg, branching the eucrypt tree over embeds/mainstream is (possibly ?) sustainable ; whereas branching it over "joe needs a project to direct to justify his employment with shithat" is exactly as sustainable as post-2018 linux.
1862726;1539577366;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862411 << but if you don't care about computers why are you talking to them ? you're not ~dependent~ on it, but i presume you care to some degree.
1862727;1539577366;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:25 diana_coman: once you bring it into your tree, you don't care about the original tree so ...how stuck?
1862728;1539585871;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862726 -> right, dependent is the right word there
1862729;1539585871;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 04:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862411 << but if you don't care about computers why are you talking to them ? you're not ~dependent~ on it, but i presume you care to some degree.
1862730;1539586183;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862722 -> hm, multi for the sake of it would anyway be taken care of via who signs and who doesn't sign the various patches or trees; but anyway - do you mean you think there should be explicit multi-tree dependencies? this is what I was talking about there: tree A effectively links to patch B.3 in tree B so if B's maintainer regrinds then A's maintainer has to go on a shouting spree (as per "talk to peop
1862731;1539586183;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 04:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862408 << the benefit is that if they are legitimate multi, then there's different context which is well handled ; and if they are illegitimate (in the sense of, no context to well handle) there's pressure there to collapse.
1862732;1539586184;diana_coman;le")
1862733;1539586245;diana_coman;I read and re-read and I get the impression that this sort of delayed conversation doesn't work very well so I'll leave it for now
1862734;1539586471;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862679 <-> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862390
1862735;1539586471;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 03:57 mircea_popescu: in any case, type1 might get i dunno, later-patch-taking-advantage-of-ddram whereas type 2 might get later-patch-needed-for-old-arms etc.
1862736;1539586471;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:13 diana_coman: yes, the way I currently see it now is pretty much that: trunk (main line) goes along the production versions of all stuff (crc32 or keccak or whatever else) and otherwise at the respective points there can be additional branches /leaves with the reference implementations
1862737;1539586526;diana_coman;in the more general case it can branch for all sorts of reasons and continue on those branches for as long as needed, of course
1862738;1539586613;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862681 -> taking out of the tree i.e. opposite of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862683
1862739;1539586613;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 03:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862391 << i have no idea what you mean by this "taking out" expression.
1862740;1539586613;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 04:00 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862394 << that's the discussion as to how "of course everything eventually merges into single tree".
1862741;1539595532;mircea_popescu;diana_coman absolutely not.
1862742;1539595594;diana_coman;I gather that's re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862730
1862743;1539595594;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 06:49 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862722 -> hm, multi for the sake of it would anyway be taken care of via who signs and who doesn't sign the various patches or trees; but anyway - do you mean you think there should be explicit multi-tree dependencies? this is what I was talking about there: tree A effectively links to patch B.3 in tree B so if B's maintainer regrinds then A's maintainer has to go on a shouting spree (as per "talk to peop
1862744;1539595607;mircea_popescu;tree A is single if there exists a "most extensive press" that includes all possible presses are included  ; tree A is multi if no such MEP exists.
1862745;1539595647;diana_coman;makes perfect sense, yes
1862746;1539595651;mircea_popescu;right.
1862747;1539595720;mircea_popescu;so then what's the q ? or ?
1862748;1539595913;diana_coman;there isn't any question that I see remaining there; I think what happened was that I was thinking a bit out loud in the logs yesterday and I got to same conclusion basically but then you started answering to the first part and some things were not unclear at a distance too and so the whole thing
1862749;1539595942;mircea_popescu;ah ah. okthen
1862750;1539596021;ave1;asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862451, I've been reading through the logs and could find no reference of how you did this. Could this be monitored with an FPGA? (there seem to be MAC level FPGA based routers).
1862751;1539596021;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:49 asciilifeform: ave1: there is not much to be said further re subj, i looked into what actually comes out of my lan, it sends 1500 frames upstream always.
1862752;1539596037;diana_coman;btw I think this is a very good description indeed: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862713
1862753;1539596037;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 04:14 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the end we could phrase it as "some rewriters -- deeper than others".
1862754;1539596071;mircea_popescu;ave1 can't just sniff packets one node upstream ?
1862755;1539596116;ave1;Alternatively I was thinking about some simple speed tests (i.e. half size udp messages would translate in < half bandwith of max size udp messages)
1862756;1539596164;ave1;mircea_popescu, I'm doing packet sniffing (with wireshark and netsniff etc) and I see different ethernet frame sizes reported
1862757;1539596196;mircea_popescu;but are you dumping the raw frames ? or are they reconstructed the "indended" packet for you ?
1862758;1539596248;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862454 << molodets!!!
1862759;1539596248;a111;Logged on 2018-10-14 16:54 asciilifeform: on 1 occasion it was found necessary to build a icbm rocket that is too heavy for 1 car. head designer v. f. utkin found solution, he had a system of springs to distribute the weight between ~two~ cars. this is analogous to udp fraggism.
1862760;1539596279;ave1;This I do not know (it looks raw). I'am probably doomed to read the linux network stack.
1862761;1539596414;ave1;So far (by reading about this), I found that some NICs can do part of the framing for the OS (but I would expect that to be for large messages and not for small ones)
1862762;1539596469;ave1;So if this part of framing happens at the hardware level then the connection to what is reported to the OS and actually on the line is weak
1862763;1539596518;mircea_popescu;"raw packet", "raw frame", rawdog, etcetera. tcpdump/libpcap-likes tend to dump the packets not the frames.
1862764;1539596571;mircea_popescu;listen on a raw socket. otherwise you're prolly getting what comes out of pf_packet, which is a packet.
1862765;1539596692;ave1;netsniff-ng seems to show raw frames (eth mac is reported) but yes I'll look into the socket raw code
1862766;1539596949;mircea_popescu;apparently that does do raw 802.11 frames.
1862767;1539597235;diana_coman;ave1, the .ads in your .vpatch still has the original comments saying that it's a lookup-based implementation, lol
1862768;1539597289;mircea_popescu;this poor guy!
1862769;1539597307;mircea_popescu;y u copypaste, ave1 !
1862770;1539597319;ave1;diana_coman, Ach yes, I did copy-paste everything I did not touch
1862771;1539597350;diana_coman;this code is meant for touching, heh
1862772;1539597510;diana_coman;ave1, please update so I can sign the patch
1862773;1539597931;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862559 << heh.
1862774;1539597931;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 00:54 asciilifeform: this line of thought was prompted by my 'trb observatory', which has uncovered a number of 'mpb'-style nodes, i.e. trb-like but not presenting 'modern' vers and therefore invisible from heathen www indices
1862775;1539597938;mircea_popescu;anyway, not a bad idea at all.
1862776;1539598018;ave1;diana_coman, updated!
1862777;1539598081;ave1;note I kept the S.MG 2018 lines untouched
1862778;1539598258;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862587 << i suspek the problem's deeper here. ie, "already exists" concept may altogether be broken on linux/unix
1862779;1539598258;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 01:13 phf: so it looks like bvt is correct, there's no way to make ada's Create throw an exception if the file already exists
1862780;1539598315;diana_coman;ave1, thanks, confirmed fine, I'll sign and mirror it on my shelf in a minute; (re s.mg lines - not a worry either way really)
1862781;1539598364;diana_coman;hm, opening file for append however raises an exception if file does not exist
1862782;1539598378;diana_coman;I used that at the udp tester to create file only if it does not exist
1862783;1539598382;diana_coman;but granted: workaround
1862784;1539598486;diana_coman;onth I'm not sure I want Create to throw exceptions - I want it to create the file and that's it, I don't care if it exists or not
1862785;1539598522;mircea_popescu;specifically what i mean : if a process creates/deletes file on a very narrow schedule ; and another checks for file's existence on very narrow schedule, their respective pictures of when they think file exists and doesn't fails to match up.
1862786;1539598573;mircea_popescu;not clear to me if caching shenanigans or what. but anyways.
1862787;1539598593;diana_coman;ah ah
1862788;1539598828;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862617 << speaking of which, hey lobbes, feel like adding a param to !Q later tell, whereby it can tell next it sees guy but not earlier than x hours ?
1862789;1539598828;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 02:44 asciilifeform: ty phf, will remind.
1862790;1539598838;mircea_popescu;ppl can give themselves alerts this way then
1862791;1539598870;mircea_popescu;could work like !Q later tell == !Q 0 tell ; otherwise !Q 144 tell
1862792;1539599065;diana_coman;an shelf page updated with ave1's divtronic crc32; thank you ave1!; phf please snarf updated .vpatch and sigs when convenient: http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-429.0-443.46
1862793;1539599178;ave1;btw, gnat specific; System.OS_Lib has 'Create_New_File' (it also has a temp file generator, but I cannot recommend, uses digits). bvt's implemention looks the way to go (Although the string allocations to talk to C should be removed)
1862794;1539599317;ave1;and in that code, another way to send strings from Ada to C; http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GZtAH/?raw=true
1862795;1539602740;danielpbarron;!!up slycordinator
1862796;1539602740;deedbot;slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
1862797;1539602760;slycordinator;Is anyone on here in contact with someone who runs loper-os.org? I got directed here from clicking the "contact" link there. On the site, people can't make comments on articles as the captcha software used is out of date
1862798;1539602851;slycordinator;The message on the captcha display says "reCAPTCHA V1 IS SHUTDOWN. Direct site owners to g.co/repaptcha/upgrade"
1862799;1539602866;ave1;slycordinator, you're looking for asciilifeform, he may be available in a couple of hours.
1862800;1539603016;slycordinator;I thought it was him. I sent a PM earlier but wasn't sure if someone else was also involved.
1862801;1539603020;slycordinator;Thanks
1862802;1539603054;ave1;In the mean time you could introduce yourself. And figure out where you are here: http://btcbase.org/log.
1862803;1539603122;ave1;Example of a successful introduction here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860372.
1862804;1539603122;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 21:09 bvt: Hello, I am BT from the recent diana_coman's comments section
1862805;1539603465;slycordinator;So, to introduce myself, I'm an American living in Korea teaching English and studying data science/machine learning in my free time
1862806;1539604377;ave1;slycordinator, that's very interesting, most people here are in the American Continents and some of us are in Europe (I'm in the Netherlands).
1862807;1539604400;ave1;If you like to have a more permanent identity here, please register with deedbot
1862808;1539604402;ave1;!!help
1862809;1539604402;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/help.html
1862810;1539604425;ave1;If you do, I'll rate you and you can self voice.
1862811;1539604442;ave1;you like -> you would like
1862812;1539604514;slycordinator;Sounds good. I'll come by on occasion; think my wife is annoyed with how much time I spend on the computer already though lol
1862813;1539604746;ave1;!!up slycordinator
1862814;1539604747;deedbot;slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
1862815;1539604877;ave1;You have a limited window in which to register yourself, deedbot gives you half an hour.
1862816;1539605097;diana_coman;slycordinator, for how long have you been in Korea? (south?) ; you can also join #asciilifeform to talk to asciilifeform
1862817;1539605150;diana_coman;and do register a key as otherwise your introduction will not have any person to be linked to
1862818;1539605207;slycordinator;Yes, South Korea. I've been here since February although I lived here a few years ago. My wife is from here and missed her country
1862819;1539605347;diana_coman;oh, not bad
1862820;1539605530;slycordinator;!!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aZ2ne/?raw=true
1862821;1539605533;deedbot;34D174A2C91396A0975B8301054605BDAB923812 registered as slycordinator.
1862822;1539605559;diana_coman;well done
1862823;1539605659;ave1;!!rate slycordinator 1 new blood, in South Korea
1862824;1539605662;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xbtNH/?raw=true
1862825;1539605699;ave1;!!v 5265653AA3B3CED1529AC5071FFC4CD4D8EBDDE1A3687C87A0AFD5D3832A41F0
1862826;1539605699;deedbot;ave1 rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, in South Korea
1862827;1539605729;slycordinator;And thank you for the info on the alternative for contacting asciilifeform; I'm looking into making a gentoo box for a NAS out of an ARM board he wrote up about
1862828;1539605867;diana_coman;!!v E84934B83B58BF4EE3FC021E48E8306960681A188CF9C88AA326E6E8B5DF6F8A
1862829;1539605867;deedbot;diana_coman rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, living in South Korea
1862830;1539605886;slycordinator;currently, I've been using an old laptop for the purpose as-needed but I need to replace it with something
1862831;1539605897;diana_coman;slycordinator, you prolly need to look at cuntoo as well then
1862832;1539605926;diana_coman;!!s cuntoo
1862833;1539605989;diana_coman;uhm, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cuntoo
1862834;1539606245;slycordinator;Thanks for the pointer; first I've heard of it. I've used gentoo off-and-on for years. Although with my English teaching, I've mostly had to use windows since most materials shared around have been for MS Office (and the linux alternatives didn't work with the stuff usually)
1862835;1539606891;ave1;slycordinator, you can voice yourself with !!up
1862836;1539609842;asciilifeform;hi slycordinator
1862837;1539609861;asciilifeform;slycordinator: yes i'm aware that comment-eater on my www is dead currently
1862838;1539609882;asciilifeform;slycordinator: were you looking for hints re rk3328 ? what do you need ?
1862839;1539610354;asciilifeform;!!up slycordinator
1862840;1539610355;deedbot;slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
1862841;1539610425;slycordinator;So, I haven't purchased one of the devices but I'm considering it as a local NAS for plex.
1862842;1539610437;asciilifeform;which device ? rk3328 ?
1862843;1539610454;asciilifeform;should work fine for nas, sure
1862844;1539610462;slycordinator;Yes
1862845;1539610505;slycordinator;and i was wanting to use a usb3 enclosure to salvage my laptop drive that's got the movies on it, using that for the / partition
1862846;1539610567;asciilifeform;this doesn't require any changes to the published example
1862847;1539610585;slycordinator;but i wasn't sure if the install stuff you had on your site would work for that instead of using a usb stick because of drivers and such
1862848;1539610587;asciilifeform;thing will boot off whatever's plugged in
1862849;1539610597;slycordinator;alright, sweet.
1862850;1539610599;slycordinator;thanks
1862851;1539610628;slycordinator;shouldn't be difficult then to make the switch once i get everything
1862852;1539610629;asciilifeform;slycordinator: the only 'driver' is the ehci thing , i rolled it into the example kernel, it'll work with any mass storage item plugged into the jack
1862853;1539610660;asciilifeform;lemme guess, slycordinator , this is yer first linux box ?
1862854;1539610729;slycordinator;no; i've used gentoo off and on for a while. it would be my first raspberry pi-like box, though
1862855;1539610737;asciilifeform;ah
1862856;1539610823;slycordinator;should be quite an easy build
1862857;1539611187;slycordinator;thanks for the information again. i have to go to bed. it's late here in Korea and I have to be up in the morning to teach
1862858;1539611193;asciilifeform;goodnight slycordinator
1862859;1539611203;asciilifeform;slycordinator: you can voice yourself when you come back,
1862860;1539611204;asciilifeform;!!help
1862861;1539611205;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/help.html
1862862;1539611210;asciilifeform;^ see manual
1862863;1539611210;slycordinator;have a good day
1862864;1539611409;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862750 << i ought expand, since ave1 asked : my measurement is indirect, and is possible that could be wrong. what i did was to look for latency variance ( if my optical terminal knew how to send variant frames, shorter packets oughta move faster ) -- but found none, to the resolution of my clock.
1862865;1539611409;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 09:33 ave1: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862451, I've been reading through the logs and could find no reference of how you did this. Could this be monitored with an FPGA? (there seem to be MAC level FPGA based routers).
1862866;1539611482;asciilifeform;haven't found yet a clear answer re what my particular isp's wan frame size is, however. ( and i expect that it will be peculiar to the given isp's gear , and may not apply across the board )
1862867;1539612002;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862785 << a working 'atomic' create-or-fail-if-exists by definition excludes this scenario. linux claims to offer one, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860739 , but i've nfi yet whether it worx as printed on the crate
1862868;1539612002;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 10:15 mircea_popescu: specifically what i mean : if a process creates/deletes file on a very narrow schedule ; and another checks for file's existence on very narrow schedule, their respective pictures of when they think file exists and doesn't fails to match up.
1862869;1539612002;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 20:07 phf: asciilifeform: so the posix solution is to call open with O_CREAT | O_EXCL, which will attempt to create but will signal EEXIST if the file already exists. curiously default behavior O_CREAT will simply clobber
1862870;1539617000;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/congo-family-pulls-caper-to-secure-relatives-corpse-after-ebola-death/ << Qntra - Congo: Family Pulls Caper To Secure Relative's Corpse After Ebola Death
1862871;1539617732;billymg;trinque: just a heads up, i'll be away from my machine for the next few days but should be able to have stuff put together by friday or early saturday, and will share
1862872;1539617758;asciilifeform;billymg: neato
1862873;1539618273;asciilifeform;in unrelated noose, mod6 et al : loox like trb doesn't remove banned peers from its addr table ! i.e. offers their addrs up to others, as if they were proper noades!! i never noticed this previously, it had to wait to be found empirically. really oughta be fixed, and pretty simple patch.
1862874;1539618316;asciilifeform;just when i think 'no moar shitoshi surprises possible', i turn up yet another.
1862875;1539619670;mircea_popescu;eulora is so much fucking nicer when you wake up to a working foxybot!
1862876;1539619683;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha.
1862877;1539620020;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862676 << speaking of this, might as well take the time to discuss the "stub manifest" point.
1862878;1539620020;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 03:55 mircea_popescu: the leaves downstream from EACH n1 needn't be identical, nor needn't be different. in effect, the tree now has TWO groups of maintainers : those who maintain type 2 tree, for embeds, will not === those who maintain type 1 tree, for general use.
1862879;1539620155;mircea_popescu;so -- looking back to the crc32 situation, suppose that for whatever reason the consensus wasn't "yeah, should definitely have both" but "division is stupid, only tables are needed". at that juncture, ave1 could have made an alternate patch to the crc32-lookup consisting of merely a changed manifest, saying "Hey, for so and so reasons I think this should be a crc32-division, I intend to do it later."
1862880;1539620178;mircea_popescu;then later, when he had the time for it, or when others saw the wisdom of the point after his death, or whenever, that stub could've been replaced with the proper item.
1862881;1539620395;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862793 << i'd rather never have to import c strings anywhere either, i'd say a major goal of the whole effort is to get rid of them. so paranthesis-yes!
1862882;1539620395;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 10:26 ave1: btw, gnat specific; System.OS_Lib has 'Create_New_File' (it also has a temp file generator, but I cannot recommend, uses digits). bvt's implemention looks the way to go (Although the string allocations to talk to C should be removed)
1862883;1539620467;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862800 << afaik he doesn't read pm's.
1862884;1539620467;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 11:30 slycordinator: I thought it was him. I sent a PM earlier but wasn't sure if someone else was also involved.
1862885;1539620481;asciilifeform;i read'em, 1x/day or so
1862886;1539620505;mircea_popescu;a ok.
1862887;1539620534;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862805 << any of the koreans you teach meet the qualifications of a) female b) young c) bright and d) active ? cuz there might be a job opening for one.
1862888;1539620534;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 11:37 slycordinator: So, to introduce myself, I'm an American living in Korea teaching English and studying data science/machine learning in my free time
1862889;1539621825;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw for completeness strictly, note that there exists a ~third~ crc32 : division normally, but optionally generates table and then continues with table
1862890;1539621838;asciilifeform;i've used this in embedded boxen
1862891;1539621857;asciilifeform;( it made sense when rom small but ram large )
1862892;1539621874;mircea_popescu;could live as patch on ave1 's patch lel
1862893;1539621877;asciilifeform;easily
1862894;1539621883;asciilifeform;supposing anybody actually needed this.
1862895;1539621919;mircea_popescu;anyway, whole point being that we have elaborate research-driving/agreement-building & history-preservation tools.
1862896;1539621932;mircea_popescu;not that anyone has to use them for any purpose. but -- they do indeed exist.
1862897;1539621938;asciilifeform;verily
1862898;1539621990;mircea_popescu;i suppose they do create some obligation, as per ye olde "if you can -- you must", in the sense that much like girl can't imagien why she'd mate with dood who doesn't use soap, i can't imagine why i'd talk to dood who "has ideas" or w/e they call being filthy outside the walls.
1862899;1539622022;asciilifeform;ups the bar for civilization, indeed, sorta like once you've used indoor shitter you generally intend to keep using
1862900;1539622120;mircea_popescu;god knows all my attempts to dialogue, from http://trilema.com/surprised-by-joy-the-shape-of-my-early-life-adnotated to http://trilema.com/2017/the-ethics-of-liberty-by-murray-n-rothbard-adnotated-part-vi-a-crusoe-social-philosophy/ to http://trilema.com/2014/on-the-superiority-of-monarchy-or-adnotations-to-why-the-worst-get-on-top/ to what have you are entirely indistinguishable from "one day, mp decided to pay $x a visit ;
1862901;1539622120;mircea_popescu;soon thereafter returned, very puzzled -- why doesn't $x ever wash ?!"
1862902;1539622144;mircea_popescu;and this started after eg mpoepr's ~exhausting the live ponds.
1862903;1539622204;mircea_popescu;because yes, there very much is such a thing as a bar for civilisation, or at the very least for conversation. ~could~ talk to anyone, much like ~could~ very much shit outdoors ; but one strangely enough discovers in a short time that... doesn't really want to.
1862904;1539622271;mircea_popescu;the puzzler of all time for the average fetlife-grazed chickie, too. "wait... you mean to tell me ~you~ don't really care to talk ~to me~ ?!@?!?! but pantsuited hilarity gave us our rights!!!" sorta "this development goes neatly against everything i've been told to believe."
1862905;1539622575;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform to go back to that thread : i suppose the "portability" discussion is deeply broken in empire (and no, linus, rms and friends aren't "a republic of their own", they're leningrad school and naught else). consider how http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862894 drives the dilemma : "if the trouble of maintaining a tree is not justified, why do you think the iron discussed is worth having ? if you think the iron disc
1862906;1539622575;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 16:44 asciilifeform: supposing anybody actually needed this.
1862907;1539622575;mircea_popescu;ussed is worth having, why do you think maintaining the respective branch is too much work ?"
1862908;1539622606;mircea_popescu;ie, before us, "portability" was an abstract nothing, single-datapoint debalanced nonsense, like "the pursuit of happiness" or "safety first" or "no means no" or whatever other fucktarded pantsuit nonsense.
1862909;1539622627;mircea_popescu;after us, it is a stable, sustainable and sane item, two data points : "to get x you burn y, make a call"
1862910;1539622643;asciilifeform;'portability' without active testing is an empty promisetronic thing
1862911;1539622648;asciilifeform;hence the retardation of autoconfism
1862912;1539622662;mircea_popescu;how the fuck they managed to live before, uncomputable-cost-portability herp derp is anyone's guess.
1862913;1539622672;asciilifeform;( or consider http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862533 thread )
1862914;1539622672;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 00:25 phf: but you would never know, because in sbcl it generally does the right thing
1862915;1539622723;mircea_popescu;(and the experienced historians among the "anyone" guessing will point to -- HIDDEN EXTERNALITY!!! as fucking always! they hijacked their conversation channels to repeat over and over AND OVER again "if you want it -- write it", ie, "the cost of portability, as the backflow of using stupid hardware, is hidden under the rug tee heee")
1862916;1539622749;asciilifeform;btw phf , i'm starting to think that esthlos-vtron could be turned into a proper replacement for asdf,quicklisp,all the heathen rubbish packagerisms
1862917;1539622827;asciilifeform;really, sbcl ( or any other cltron ) oughta boot up by eating a set of keys and a vtree.
1862918;1539622844;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform precisely my poiont. yet again as always & forever, the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-14#1783773 of http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/ at work.
1862919;1539622844;a111;Logged on 2018-02-14 14:22 mircea_popescu: MEANWHILE, however, they have 100% unaccounted for the time externality. so basically it's a contest consisting of a guy without legs going about finding fault with people's fingers. because he's decided "legs don't count", and so as he has much better hands than the rest of those losers he should be captain of the football team.
1862920;1539622899;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i thought trinque was doing that exact thing for the linux machine.
1862921;1539622926;asciilifeform;as eventual replacement for 'portage' aha
1862922;1539622941;mircea_popescu;right ? gentoo.portage ~= sblc.asdf ?
1862923;1539622980;asciilifeform;a trooly ultimate sane replacement could replace both, yes
1862924;1539623080;mircea_popescu;it's kinda funny how the predictable result of an hour's logs is that... "hey guise... there's even MOAR space at the trough than we thought! you have engineermanyears to put to some use ? ohohoh here, here, uses, pick, choose!"
1862925;1539623493;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo "these varietes dominate" varietals ?
1862926;1539623555;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty, fxd
1862927;1539623580;BingoBoingo;In other punchlines, titless canadian man wins a women's cycling championship
1862928;1539623619;mircea_popescu;"ruderalis plants reservoir " << you're missing a verb.
1862929;1539623641;mircea_popescu;bwahaha. good thing hilary clinton gave them their rights!
1862930;1539623654;BingoBoingo;fxd
1862931;1539623801;mircea_popescu;http://bingology.net/2018/10/14/that-one-agricultural-product-and-uruguay/#selection-125.68-125.85 << i've recently seen this, it was something else. "like triple-dose ketamine"'d be the best way to describe it, nevermind "could not walk", subj could not keep eyes open, 6+ hrs.
1862932;1539623894;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo there's no such thing as "propogation"!
1862933;1539623902;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: There have been a number of times in Uruguay where I walked through what could have been "opium den" scenes, except without anyone being in danger of acute respiratory cessation
1862934;1539623925;BingoBoingo;fx'd again
1862935;1539623945;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo it does go pretty faint, the respiration. which yes, can definitely panic the more medically-informed.
1862936;1539624077;*;BingoBoingo has not taken to close measurements of vital signs
1862937;1539624086;mircea_popescu;lmao the drug on wars. ok, i was entertain't.
1862938;1539624094;BingoBoingo;*not taken to collecting
1862939;1539624143;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> lmao the drug on wars. ok, i was entertain't. << Intentional
1862940;1539624156;mircea_popescu;oh, i'm sure.
1862941;1539624218;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo is there some subtext of "hey, anyone wanna finance my becoming a grower" in there ?
1862942;1539624368;mircea_popescu;"As they succeeded, the cool is gone" << so fucking true!
1862943;1539624447;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Not at present. I am too stretched for time at the moment. It is more of a dump information of of my head to consult it later without keeping it in an active workspace portion of the head piece.
1862944;1539624495;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862935 << lol, how much does one gotta take, to get to this
1862945;1539624495;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 17:19 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it does go pretty faint, the respiration. which yes, can definitely panic the more medically-informed.
1862946;1539624513;mircea_popescu;(also great case study in http://trilema.com/2015/the-triviality-of-slaying-the-surviving-socialist-beast/ ; it takes barely a farthing's worth of concerted effort to rape ourdemocracy in any ghole you choose. the only reason pedophilia, necrophilia or w/e else isn't "legally protected" today is strictly that all pedos, necrophiliacs etc are fucking morons. otherwise, self-mutilation legally protected to the degree of http://
1862947;1539624514;mircea_popescu;btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862927 ; and similarly ANYTHING ELSE. the bar strictly is "more than three people get together who aren't mentally subnormal". that's it!)
1862948;1539624521;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform three tokes.
1862949;1539624555;asciilifeform;of leaf?!
1862950;1539624559;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1862951;1539624566;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: No one smokes leaf, of flower
1862952;1539624581;mircea_popescu;of plant matter as opposed to some distillate.
1862953;1539624587;asciilifeform;nuts
1862954;1539624589;mircea_popescu;which is what i expect he was asking.
1862955;1539624594;asciilifeform;i dun think this exists in usa, of yet
1862956;1539624599;BingoBoingo;And not concentrated post modern tributes to hashish. It is of hashish
1862957;1539624602;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It is
1862958;1539624611;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the interplay of random hybridation ( BingoBoingo does a good job of describing what open source weed did) and personal genetics. this is what happens.
1862959;1539624652;asciilifeform;seems excessive, tho, why would anyone want it as expensive sleeping pill.
1862960;1539624677;mircea_popescu;i have no idea. but i mentioned because a) wouldn't have believed the story and b) witnessed with own eyes.
1862961;1539624690;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Because they are chasing the euphoric effects their body's tendancy to homeostasis has robbed them of
1862962;1539624706;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo this wasn't intentional.
1862963;1539624765;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I am going off one fellow's account of why he went full bore on some "Bubba Kush" his hookup had duly warned him about
1862964;1539624769;asciilifeform;i also wonder if there's a 'chukcha and firewater' effect in play, possibly some folx have weak enzyme
1862965;1539624785;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform long time smoker (though with pauses).
1862966;1539624804;asciilifeform;even odder then.
1862967;1539624832;mircea_popescu;truth be told, "weak enzyme -- to what ?" people who smoked in college pre 2000ish and then kinda stopped aren'\t ready for what has become of the pot scene.
1862968;1539624844;mircea_popescu;back then, pot used to be like porn. nowadays -- also is like porn. compare and contrast.
1862969;1539624894;asciilifeform;supposing it is possible to use the word in application to doping, seems like the pill folx are 'smarter' -- they at least have a rough idea of how much $subst they're eating
1862970;1539624904;mircea_popescu;in 1980, you'd pop in an entirely random porno vhs and kinda know what you'd get ; and similarily light up and similarily know.
1862971;1539624907;mircea_popescu;in 2020, well...
1862972;1539624924;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is very much not so, if you've ever seen any of the pill kiddies pill.
1862973;1539624974;asciilifeform;can't say that i follow subj actively; but doesn't pill at least have measurable mass, and you can estimate how much glue and how much $item
1862974;1539625005;BingoBoingo;Story time: A kid came to Uruguay from a non-gringo white anglophone country. Regular smoker, he only intended a couple weeks in Uruguay before moving on to explore the rest of the continent. He asked me where to find weed and I told his this is Uruguay, weed will find him when he stops looking for it. 4 days into Uruguay he found pot. Five months later, after having spent nearly 3 months at the same hostel, one and a half with some
1862975;1539625005;BingoBoingo;girl in Argentina, and a couple more weeks back at the hostel...
1862976;1539625014;BingoBoingo;Kid goes home because he had a moment of clarity
1862977;1539625271;mircea_popescu;is he starting a cult back in ohio ?
1862978;1539625290;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform most kids go by color as the only indication. the more advanced also look for lettering.
1862979;1539625295;BingoBoingo;Nah, he's going to get his driver's license and maybe even a job
1862980;1539625308;mircea_popescu;pill kiddies are very much 12yos mentally.
1862981;1539625329;BingoBoingo;Whereas the pot kiddies very much imagine they are wine snobs
1862982;1539625343;asciilifeform;lol if only gabriel_laddel were alive to defend his people!11
1862983;1539625355;mircea_popescu;wasn't he doing coke or w/e ?
1862984;1539625372;asciilifeform;i dun recall precisely what, but iirc it came in pill
1862985;1539625452;BingoBoingo;iirc some sort of amphetamine
1862986;1539625457;BingoBoingo;And something about a foot
1862987;1539625590;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> in 1980, you'd pop in an entirely random porno vhs and kinda know what you'd get ; and similarily light up and similarily know. << The classic 'pot' pot is still readily available in Uruguay. Pressed, consistent, shelf stable Product of Paraguay is available from most fellows in vests helping people parallel park
1862988;1539625603;BingoBoingo;It's what most of this continent has
1862989;1539625648;BingoBoingo;And it's production appears to largely be a subsistence farming thing rather than mega-cartel deal
1862990;1539625663;mircea_popescu;i can't imagine how it'd be consistent then, but anyways.
1862991;1539625697;BingoBoingo;"Traditional Cultivation"
1862992;1539625722;BingoBoingo;Like hillbilly white lightening
1862993;1539625729;asciilifeform;possibly they do like the wine people ? (i.e. 'x % of grapes from yr n, x % from n-1, ... ' etc )
1862994;1539625738;BingoBoingo;Or rice
1862995;1539626064;mircea_popescu;"In spite of the frequency with which the practice of rolling joints is carried out, skill in rolling remains rare." << this will be the written epitaph on this whole sad world. sorta like Abdulkhakim Ismailov's twin watches the epitaph of previouis reich.
1862996;1539626391;mircea_popescu;"Consumption of marijuana promotes the development and belief in false memories. The social engineering potential for this is tremendous, which is likely why Pantsuit pushes normalizing marijuana consumption. The effect on activism in the previous point is likely why Pantsuit is cautious in actually legalizing cannabis." << check it out, #metoo was really of and by and for and about potheads ?!
1862997;1539626396;mircea_popescu;who could have guessed!
1862998;1539626459;BingoBoingo;Hey, down here I am watching the Fat Forehead party realize it doesn't have a activist base anymore in real time.
1862999;1539626628;mircea_popescu;kinda the same all over the world, http://trilema.com/2017/where-the-fuck-is-everyone/ etc. might have nothing to do with pot and everything to do with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-11#1500948 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859575 evolution.
1863000;1539626628;a111;Logged on 2016-07-11 12:11 mircea_popescu: hilary should really be a very informative example for all teenaged girls today : NOTHING slavery inflicts upon you is quite as bad as what "being a successful" mainstream derp does to you.
1863001;1539626628;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 17:21 mircea_popescu: as i say -- the young hussies already are looking for slavery and abjection, in contrast to their stupid mulas and stramulas. from rotherham to anytown, usa, the 15 yo is saying "please, beat, rape and light me on fire -- anything whatsoever but having to talk with my kinmorons."
1863002;1539626646;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862995 << And to be clear on this point I am not talking about a lack of artistically inspired one time smoke instruments. I mean they produce joints that are poorly packed, with loose paper, that need substantial babying because they fail to burn consistently (Even when they cheat by bulking up the payload with tobacco to ease rolling)..
1863003;1539626646;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 17:54 mircea_popescu: "In spite of the frequency with which the practice of rolling joints is carried out, skill in rolling remains rare." << this will be the written epitaph on this whole sad world. sorta like Abdulkhakim Ismailov's twin watches the epitaph of previouis reich.
1863004;1539626717;BingoBoingo;Well, for the most part pot is a marginal thing mostly used by marginal people
1863005;1539626738;mircea_popescu;but yes, substantial change in teh world.
1863006;1539626746;BingoBoingo;Can't pin all of the swells in the world on it
1863007;1539626888;BingoBoingo;But yes, if Trump legalizes weed at the federal level which he appears to be moving towards... it will be for very good reason.
1863008;1539626912;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol, rolling cigs is sumthing even gulag inmates had down to an exact science
1863009;1539626961;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform gulag inmates weren't redditarded.
1863010;1539626969;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Gulag inmates have to be cool in some way, however trivial to end up in gulag. Legal pot smokers face no such barrier to entry.
1863011;1539626986;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: usg is on an 'embrace & extend' tack. not simply the pot thing, either -- consider, 'uber', 'airbnb', etc through lens of 'attempts to make unemployed zeks, driven into piecework, to document income & pay tax'
1863012;1539627047;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform uber is rather "we'll produce an alt-frontend dating site for orclands, where the morons will pay usg to use it". very much mercantilism desperation on usg.blue part.
1863013;1539627057;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's several distinct things
1863014;1539627074;asciilifeform;one of'em, imho , is 'all those folx driving unofficial cabs, make'em pay tax'
1863015;1539627082;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's not just USG. All fiat wanna be sovereigns are inclined to capturing tax from undocumented traditional activities.
1863016;1539627095;mircea_popescu;nah, whole fuckling point is that cab services work well in orclands, and the orcs pay tax already.
1863017;1539627127;mircea_popescu;just, they don't pay it via WU, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861440 item.
1863018;1539627127;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 23:36 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it meanwhile dawned on me. why the fuck would wu even be part of this conversation.
1863019;1539627151;mircea_popescu;also -- SOMEHOW -- uber doesn't have bingoboingo's problem. for THEM it is a-ok to terrorist money all over the world.
1863020;1539627186;mircea_popescu;ie, usg undergoing exact same process argentina was, back when old whore still thought she can be president whether i say ok or not.
1863021;1539627195;asciilifeform;uber worx exactly like the 'reliable' wu -- they force chump to register bank acct etc
1863022;1539627210;asciilifeform;so moneys move usgistically, rather than 'terroristically'
1863023;1539627214;asciilifeform;erry penny reported.
1863024;1539627256;mircea_popescu;not from what i've seen, still cash payments.
1863025;1539627281;mircea_popescu;(admittedly, seen like 3.)
1863026;1539627285;asciilifeform;maybe in orcistans ? how does this work, they have physical offices ?
1863027;1539627311;mircea_popescu;yuou hand the man at the wheel some bills and move on. how else ?
1863028;1539627320;asciilifeform;in usa, uber client is a pnoje proggy, and demands CC #; to be 'cabbie', requires acct and linked bank thing, and they file 'form 1040' for tax db
1863029;1539627326;mircea_popescu;not here.
1863030;1539627334;asciilifeform;( and no can't pay with cash , in usa )
1863031;1539627349;mircea_popescu;here, they just take 20% of their revenue and send it to washington so washington can pretend like it's a place.
1863032;1539627352;asciilifeform;interesting, possibly what mircea_popescu saw wasn't even an actual 'uber' cabbie, but just some d00d with the sticker for no reason
1863033;1539627362;mircea_popescu;used the app ?
1863034;1539627387;mircea_popescu;they don't use the stickers here, people beat them up.
1863035;1539627390;asciilifeform;rly ? used app, and it didn't eat a cc ? interesting
1863036;1539627420;mircea_popescu;this idea that pantsuitism is well regarded abroad is a very narrowly in-group wank.
1863037;1539627439;asciilifeform;rright but it's a pantsuit production, this thing. i had nfi that they had 'lite' variant for orcs
1863038;1539627442;mircea_popescu;so no, nobody in right mind would ~advertise~ they're faggots.
1863039;1539627470;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform as far as i know, item exists 100% as orcistan theft, because the local morons will pay the usg corp a chunk of their local income.
1863040;1539627479;mircea_popescu;i don't know it has any other revenue than these orc donations.
1863041;1539627487;asciilifeform;for the privilege of using the app? lol!
1863042;1539627490;mircea_popescu;ikr ?
1863043;1539627535;asciilifeform;btw on usa end, they've turned into a kind of ~bus~ service, client pays 3-4x less if he is willing to sit in a car fulla randos (which naturally makes loops , to put'em in the correct places)
1863044;1539627579;mircea_popescu;i dunno it ever had any utility or any userbase in us. 100% "high5" item, "big in pakistan!" sorta thing.
1863045;1539627580;asciilifeform;( and they've put in a sort of unofficial gamble component, often enuff the car will have no one but 1 )
1863046;1539627593;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: massive userbase in east coast usa
1863047;1539627639;asciilifeform;( e.g. washington, has more or less 1 or 2 uberists per city block, at any given hour , some full, some empty )
1863048;1539627644;mircea_popescu;and in the orclands, its utility is 100% as a dating site, "hey girly [working for "corporation" aka call center, nursing batshit insane delusions as to how you're a sorta hilary and anyone gives a shit about what yo ufished out of your belly button] : would you rather walk, or would you rather save and occasionally ask for a hot young boy who owns his own car take a half hour look at you ?
1863049;1539627675;mircea_popescu;so they get stuck in traffic, and she tries on her best 12yo moves, with the eyelids and shit, and figures out how to tell him later she's got a 2yo in tow, notwithstanding she's barely 20something.
1863050;1539627682;mircea_popescu;this rarely works, but the fact that it works at all...
1863051;1539627696;asciilifeform;twist : ( at least in usa ) they demand that the car be no older than 3y. and given as typical cabbie is not particularly creditworthy, they give the chump '0% until missed payment' loans to buy'em
1863052;1539627721;asciilifeform;partnered with some lender thing
1863053;1539627722;mircea_popescu;the sort of imbecile moron who http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-403.0-407.140 can always be hit for a small bill for "the hope" that "saviour".
1863054;1539627739;mircea_popescu;kinda how xtianity was built, too. mary magdalene bigger deal than the other mary whore.
1863055;1539627766;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform item entirely exists to get idiots to undertake private loans to finance corp. which orc morons ALOS do.
1863056;1539627779;mircea_popescu;so uber can pretend it has a power and influence other people are paying for.
1863057;1539627789;asciilifeform;i had nfi that autos-on-credit were a thing in orcistans
1863058;1539627807;mircea_popescu;it'll be the lulz of all time, once THIS groupon goes the way of the other, and all these tards are left paying the loans. will paraguay invade us to extract reparatios for its scaqmmed citizenry ?
1863059;1539627810;asciilifeform;always pictured it as a usa thing, where they have extensive structure for beating the money out of idjits who default
1863060;1539627824;mircea_popescu;here, 0 infrastructure, but orcs morons.
1863061;1539627912;asciilifeform;re structure -- they're rolling out ipnoje-style cars, that brick if they dun get keepalive from server
1863062;1539627916;asciilifeform;cheaper 'repo', the idea
1863063;1539627927;asciilifeform;i expect at some point they'll get up an' drive themselves back to vendor if default
1863064;1539627931;mircea_popescu;here it's mostly toyotas.
1863065;1539628015;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> re structure -- they're rolling out ipnoje-style cars, that brick if they dun get keepalive from server << These have been a thing in the US for a while with the pay by week specialist dealer/lenders
1863066;1539628106;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-11#1712049 << oblig
1863067;1539628106;a111;Logged on 2017-09-11 14:19 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-11#1712044 << https://vimeo.com/1665301
1863068;1539628186;asciilifeform;i expect at some point standard usa toilet will switch into reverse gear and disgorge geisers of shit if you miss a payment
1863069;1539629070;BingoBoingo;In new interesting to asciilifeform mod6 and other Pizarro folks, Uruguay is about to roll out a new type of corporate structure. Sociedad de Acción Simplificadas, going to look into it and see if it is at all interesting.
1863070;1539629143;BingoBoingo;Found out it is a thing just now through an invitation to be fed breakfast at an event discussing the thing.
1863071;1539630620;bvt;hello
1863072;1539630620;lobbesbot;bvt: Sent 17 hours and 27 minutes ago: <phf> ^^
1863073;1539630626;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862641 -- mircea_popescu, diana_coman, i'm in the process of getting some btc currently, after that will get pizarro shared hosting.
1863074;1539630626;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 03:02 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862295 << bootstrapping problem, he has to get vtools compiled to press mp-wp to install it on the rk he already bought.
1863075;1539630641;bvt;should set everything up till the end of the week. i didn't rent a rk; but already tested pressing mp-wp locally.
1863076;1539630650;BingoBoingo;bvt: Sweet
1863077;1539630650;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862597 -- good catch, you must be right. i'll check that.
1863078;1539630650;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 01:42 phf: bvt: your patch has "Binary files..." at the very end of it. i assume it wasn't made with vdiff
1863079;1539630665;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862604 -- specialization was exactly the issue for me
1863080;1539630665;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 01:53 phf: oh i guess i see why that would be tricky, because of the specialization. i don't know enough ada yet to know how to fix that... perhaps just renaming it to Temporary_File is sufficient
1863081;1539630671;bvt;re naming: i agree that it clashes with Ada naming convention. will rename to Temporary_File.
1863082;1539630678;BingoBoingo;bvt: I think when he made that comment he confused you with the other promising newcomer
1863083;1539630707;bvt;that's what I think as well
1863084;1539630713;bvt;btw, now vpatch.adb does not require Interfaces.C/Int.C.Strings for anything, they will go away in the revised vpatch.
1863085;1539630754;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862638 -- i agree that this solution is not that great. however, other alternatives have problems of their own.
1863086;1539630754;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 03:01 mircea_popescu: bvt "Ada exposes no functions that have 'exclusive open' semantics, so I imported C
1863087;1539630788;bvt;ave1, can you expand on getting rid of string allocations? I see a way to get rid of it for Mode, but not for the Path argument. i can move its c-string from heap to stack, but that would be it. anyhow, i will revise this aspect.
1863088;1539630807;bvt;the System/GNAT.OS_Lib find is interesting, i have missed it.
1863089;1539630822;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862867 -- i'd bet this is file-system- and linux-version-specific. at least in the NFS case lack of support for some versions is explicitly advertised.
1863090;1539630822;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 14:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862785 << a working 'atomic' create-or-fail-if-exists by definition excludes this scenario. linux claims to offer one, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860739 , but i've nfi yet whether it worx as printed on the crate
1863091;1539630946;asciilifeform;bvt: i find it mind-boggling that there is not a standard , portable , machine-wide locking mechanism. but apparently this is so.
1863092;1539630986;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/ozgIw << see also, on subj
1863093;1539631018;asciilifeform;^ bvt phf et al
1863094;1539631045;asciilifeform;'...If you want to lock a file in $HOME, forget about it as $HOME might be NFS and locks generally are not reliable there. The same applies to every other file system that might be shared across the network. If the file you want to lock is accessible to more than your own user (i.e. an access mode > 0700), forget about locking, it would allow others to block your application indefinitely. If your program is non-trivial or threaded or
1863095;1539631045;asciilifeform; uses a framework such as Gtk+ or Qt or any of the module-based APIs such as NSS, PAM, ... forget about about POSIX locking. If you care about portability, don't use file locking.' etc
1863096;1539631152;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863069 << seems likelty one of those right wing "pay low tax get economy going" things. sometimes they're used as bait and switch by govt.
1863097;1539631152;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 18:44 BingoBoingo: In new interesting to asciilifeform mod6 and other Pizarro folks, Uruguay is about to roll out a new type of corporate structure. Sociedad de Acción Simplificadas, going to look into it and see if it is at all interesting.
1863098;1539631197;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Looking superficially at the law for it, it seems like a way to attract crowdfund stuff
1863099;1539631199;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863075 << a ok.
1863100;1539631199;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 19:10 bvt: should set everything up till the end of the week. i didn't rent a rk; but already tested pressing mp-wp locally.
1863101;1539631213;bvt;yes, these lockfiles are just a big mess.
1863102;1539631241;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863084 << good!
1863103;1539631241;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 19:11 bvt: btw, now vpatch.adb does not require Interfaces.C/Int.C.Strings for anything, they will go away in the revised vpatch.
1863104;1539631299;mircea_popescu;bvt you asking for a primer on the longstanding hatred of c strings here, or found on own ?
1863105;1539631344;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863102 -- well they moved to another file, with tempfile implementation. i guess ave1 knows a total cure
1863106;1539631344;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 19:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863084 << good!
1863107;1539631365;bvt;i have my own painful experience with them
1863108;1539631384;bvt;so no primer is necessary
1863109;1539631469;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863091 << at present i believe the ~entire file model~ in unix might have been subtly broken since the very beginning, and that breakage has in turn informed the way people think about the fs/os interface so as to not notice it. because it's as you see, a widening breach, what started with atomic creation moved on to permissions, and in general... in a word, it's not directly evident unix ha
1863110;1539631469;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 19:15 asciilifeform: bvt: i find it mind-boggling that there is not a standard , portable , machine-wide locking mechanism. but apparently this is so.
1863111;1539631469;mircea_popescu;s a file system AT ALL, and the "all things are files" is just a thin wraper on a turd sausage made out of "we have no data model beyond ram and our disk doesn't actually work".
1863112;1539631508;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's broken in a dozen major ways and definitely noticeable
1863113;1539631529;bvt;it seems that 'c strings' in ada are still controlled by ada mechanisms, i.e. they are ada strings (with bounds checking), just with null byte in the end
1863114;1539631533;mircea_popescu;most terrifying part being that i can readily review history to the point where this would very much have been exactly the implicit assumption, because fuck tape.
1863115;1539631537;asciilifeform;( locking, permissions, variant semantics ( nfs somehow permitted to behave strangely ) , etc
1863116;1539631565;mircea_popescu;so the situation may actually be that no computer system currently deployed actually has a file system.
1863117;1539631588;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: observe that current subj is a classic '4 ring binder' . we arent actually looking for file lock, file lock simply happens to be the only available ~working tool for machinewide-semaphore
1863118;1539631611;mircea_popescu;exactly.
1863119;1539631632;mircea_popescu;or rather, the item all the locals point to when asked about bar/club/disco/where the fuck do you take the whores ?!?!?
1863120;1539631656;mircea_popescu;just because they all point to the coconut shop dun mean coconut shop is either a club or a place you'd take the whores.
1863121;1539631734;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-22#429394 for the l0gz/n00bz )
1863122;1539631734;a111;Logged on 2013-12-22 16:56 asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the infor
1863123;1539631799;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform previous run into this was with the "what's a file's name" ambiguity i axed into "fully specified paths inclued". but that wasn't the problem, that was a random symptom of the fact nobody ever thought about files in unix.
1863124;1539631811;mircea_popescu;if you recall that convo.
1863125;1539631818;asciilifeform;several threads iirc
1863126;1539631851;mircea_popescu;right. but this wasn't because "nobody thought of file names like, ever". it was fucking because "nobody CAN think of file names, because there's a deeper issue"
1863127;1539631892;mircea_popescu;and the deeper issue might be that there is in fact no os, just a maldesigned, half-impelemented, thoroughly buggy process emulator shoehorned into describing a disk.
1863128;1539631908;mircea_popescu;ie, not "all things are files", but "the only way you can access the disk is through this mangled malloc"
1863129;1539631914;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i wrote about this on my www in the past, whole concept of 'file system' is consequence of the nonvolatile memory poverty that gave us the orig ram/disk split
1863130;1539631944;asciilifeform;really machine oughta have 1 addr space, and keep it hygienic, this is physically possible with 2000s tech
1863131;1539631993;asciilifeform;flash disk really oughta be simply a thing that kicks in when the power fails and box runs from capacitor and saves state.
1863132;1539631995;mircea_popescu;this all leaves us stranged with such questions as "what is a file" and "what should a filesystem evben be".
1863133;1539632011;asciilifeform;possibly misconceived q entirely.
1863134;1539632014;mircea_popescu;heh, stranged. stranded in strange.
1863135;1539632019;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform possibly.
1863136;1539632045;asciilifeform;for instance 1 possible answer is 'no files, errything is an s-expression, and names live in gns'
1863137;1539632095;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: observe that a TB of ecc ram costs approx same as tb of quality ssd.
1863138;1539632112;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1863139;1539632495;mircea_popescu;aha.
1863140;1539632796;BingoBoingo;To update the binder hole count, Uruguay is a two hole binder country
1863141;1539633944;asciilifeform;lol!
1863142;1539635608;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/tell-me-what-if-the-republic-were-antique/ << Trilema - Tell me, what if the Republic were antique ?
1863143;1539638946;Mocky;uber in Qatar is cash, much to my surprise. I popped a sim into my second phone, made an uber acct, verifed with a text message, no CC, no identity verification. i was surprised
1863144;1539638991;Mocky;they also have uber-knockoffs, one named careem
1863145;1539639102;Mocky;place is crawling with uber drives, never more than 3 minutes away no matter where you go, almost all driving a Kia
1863146;1539639332;BingoBoingo;This Uber thing kind of sounds like "VoyEnTaxi"
1863147;1539641023;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=53 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/12/2018
1863148;1539643281;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/us-army-seeks-candidates-for-direct-comminsion-to-colonel-because-cyber/ << Qntra - US Army Seeks Candidates For Direct Comminsion To Colonel Because "Cyber"
1863149;1539643292;BingoBoingo;Congratulations nicoleci on your first Qntra comment! http://qntra.net/2018/10/pantsuit-media-slanders-kim-kardashians-husband-as-an-incel/#comment-119443
1863150;1539644597;mircea_popescu;lol!
1863151;1539647003;BingoBoingo;In other rough cuts from the mines https://archive.is/JVNlI
1863152;1539649144;asciilifeform;in oooother noose, 'pixelqi' lcd ( thread http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-11#1860677 ) is ~not~ compat with 'lenovo s10-3' -- screw holes in wrong places , and connector dun reach .
1863153;1539649144;a111;Logged on 2018-10-11 17:08 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i recently found that lcd panel made by (defunkt) 'pixelqi co', pq3qi-01 , is still sold by chinese ( i have nfi if clones, or old stock ), ~100 $ ea; the thing toggles from 1024x600 colour/backlit into a 3072x600 greyscale reflector thing, worx with various lappies ( sadly not x60, it's a 16:9 )
1863154;1539649167;*;asciilifeform will try again with 'samsung n150' box, with sadder kbd, but same chipset, and reportedly fitting
1863155;1539655738;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862662 << yeah, I think I must've still been waking up that morning. my unexamined line of thought at the time was that since it doesn't list in here, there's no need to have it here. Then I remembered there's still use in, e.g. being able to bid, view orders, etc.
1863156;1539655738;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 03:47 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862346 << wait, what ?
1863157;1539655754;lobbes;I'll start working to get the voicing figured out for auctionbot and bring it in here.
1863158;1539655804;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862788 << this is a good idea for a feature. Once I get logbot-voicing figured out I'm thinking of setting up a general purpose 'miscbot' for such things as the later-tell and the duckduckgo search. I'll try and work this into the later-tell feature
1863159;1539655804;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 10:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862617 << speaking of which, hey lobbes, feel like adding a param to !Q later tell, whereby it can tell next it sees guy but not earlier than x hours ?
1863160;1539657075;mircea_popescu;lobbes you wanna havbe a buncha separate bots ? why ?
1863161;1539659697;lobbes;well, my ultimate aim is to eventually rewrite ALL of lobbesbot's functionality to stand on top of logbot versus the heathen limnoria. auctionbot was the first victory in this regard.
1863162;1539659701;lobbes;but there's still the !Qlater tell, the #eulora log-quoting, #eulora log search, etc. I guess I figured why not take the opportunity to organize vastly different functionalities into separate bots. (e.g. all the logger-related functionality in one bot, auction/ticker-announce/price-history in auctionbot, everything-else in 'miscbot')
1863163;1539659746;mircea_popescu;won't it be a nightmare to keep a bunch of separate bots up ?
1863164;1539659757;mircea_popescu;and if you're putting them all on the same box what's "separate" mean anyway ?
1863165;1539659773;lobbes;well I'd retire lobbesbot once everything rewritten.
1863166;1539659779;lobbes;and not all on one box either
1863167;1539659837;lobbes;or perhaps lobbesbot can be the 'misc bot'
1863168;1539660215;lobbes;but maybe you have a point. I gotta noodle on it. there's a balance somewhere
1863169;1539660273;mircea_popescu;i guess the idea is, i dunno what you're trying to achieve ?
1863170;1539660290;mircea_popescu;is it that your mental picture of the bot gets too gnarly because of all these diff functions ?
1863171;1539660590;lobbes;there's that. then there's also the "command namespace collisions" issue. For example http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-15#1770696
1863172;1539660590;a111;Logged on 2018-01-15 11:44 lobbes: btw "!Qsarchive" (without the "-") also works to call the command. ("!Qs" was already in-use to search logs.minigame.bz)
1863173;1539660612;mircea_popescu;this should be approached rather thjan fled from
1863174;1539660642;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862873 << Thanks for reporting.  I'll add this to the list to take a look @ & replicate.
1863175;1539660642;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 15:44 asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, mod6 et al : loox like trb doesn't remove banned peers from its addr table ! i.e. offers their addrs up to others, as if they were proper noades!! i never noticed this previously, it had to wait to be found empirically. really oughta be fixed, and pretty simple patch.
1863176;1539660791;lobbes;mircea_popescu: how do you mean?
1863177;1539660834;mircea_popescu;well, restructure the commands namespace, rather than making n bots
1863178;1539661068;lobbes;yeah, that makes sense. Ol' causes and purposes. The only cause I can see right now for separate bot is if wanting to keep it on separate box
1863179;1539661088;mircea_popescu;something like that.
1863180;1539661089;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in french class, "Je sens sur ta lèvre une odeur de fièvre de gosse mal nourri ; et sous ta caresse je sens une ivresse qui m'anéantit"
1863181;1539666817;hanbot;BingoBoingo http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/48Uzp/?raw=true
1863182;1539681597;ave1;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863087, look at the pasted code. Yes, you move it from a dynamic allocation on the heap to a "dynamic allocation" on the stack. With the major advantage that the stack is a well defined mechanism with predictable results where dynamic allocations are not.
1863183;1539681597;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 19:13 bvt: ave1, can you expand on getting rid of string allocations? I see a way to get rid of it for Mode, but not for the Path argument. i can move its c-string from heap to stack, but that would be it. anyhow, i will revise this aspect.
1863184;1539681744;ave1;Using the stack makes code less error prone and a lot more readable, please read the FFA code; http://www.loper-os.org/?cat=49.
1863185;1539688708;bvt;thanks, i see what you mean. the Interfaces.C.Strings.New_String() comments explicitly say that the heap allocation is necessary for the large strings, which is not the case for vpatch temporary file names.
1863186;1539688739;bvt;i have already reworked the code based on the following code from GNAT: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xjjec/?raw=true (g-locfil.adb, lockfile implementation). i.e. System.Address of an aliased String as argument to C function.
1863187;1539688818;deedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/16/smg-comms-chapter-2-raw-types/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 2: Raw Types
1863188;1539689317;mircea_popescu;yknow it occurs to me, one could make a likely very popular film, call it "captive" or w/e, simply through filming the male seminal canal from teste to ligature point in one of those tube-tied doods. 4 minuites of voice-over at the beginning explaining what's what ("this is joe. joe is a sperm." bla bla) and then the rest of an hour and a half just... let people watch the random walk.
1863189;1539689884;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863187 << this'll take some rereading ; ima take it with me on trip.
1863190;1539689884;a111;Logged on 2018-10-16 11:20 deedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/16/smg-comms-chapter-2-raw-types/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 2: Raw Types
1863191;1539690246;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863111 << thinking about this in the interim, it is EVIDENTLY the case. "files" as in ~the fucking thing REFERENCED~ in the "file"system names aren't even first class abstractions! the drive's a BYTE device! there's no fucking files ANYWHERE except in the imagination.
1863192;1539690246;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 19:24 mircea_popescu: s a file system AT ALL, and the "all things are files" is just a thin wraper on a turd sausage made out of "we have no data model beyond ram and our disk doesn't actually work".
1863193;1539690324;mircea_popescu;what passes for a "file system" currently is this attempt to force a byte-device (sometimes with some half-baked geographical allocation bolted on) through a half-baked database model. wtf is a "FAT" or a "journal" besides poorly implemented mysql/postgres dben ?
1863194;1539690362;mircea_popescu;in any case there's no such thing as a filename anywhere at all, it's not even 2nd class, it's a sort of indian.
1863195;1539690428;mircea_popescu;and obviously most of the reason the sql flavour is broken is because "oh, structure could never be aforeknown" and so "must have maximal hallucinatory freedoms".
1863196;1539690474;mircea_popescu;"then you want to put these '''maximal freedom''' elements in a tree ?" "it's not a tree, it's a '''directory structure'''." "wtf is that ?" "a half-baked tree." "you're really dedicated to this half-baked thing beyond all else, aren't you ?"
1863197;1539690482;mircea_popescu;what fucking filesystem. halfbakedsystem more like it.
1863198;1539690708;mircea_popescu;man-drive dialogue flows always like : "i want file X" "wtf is that ?" "tell me what i told you before file X is supposed to be" "bytes 4978459876 through 50987498098" "i want bytes 4978459876 through 50987498098 please" "here you go" "are these file X ?" "fuck you" "does file X even exist ?" "little bitch..." "grep -a -C 500 'known pattern' /dev/sda | tee /tmp/recover"
1863199;1539696674;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863191 << bonus: nobody actually sells a hdd that's 'byte device', they're addressable in 512byte blox ( and internally with 4096byte flash sectors ) and it actually makes a diff , not only in re speed but the life of the iron ( erry sector can be written ~2000 times )
1863200;1539696674;a111;Logged on 2018-10-16 11:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863111 << thinking about this in the interim, it is EVIDENTLY the case. "files" as in ~the fucking thing REFERENCED~ in the "file"system names aren't even first class abstractions! the drive's a BYTE device! there's no fucking files ANYWHERE except in the imagination.
1863201;1539697178;asciilifeform;!Q later tell diana_coman http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/16/smg-comms-chapter-2-raw-types/comment-page-1/#comment-4339
1863202;1539697178;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1863203;1539697249;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if my nitpick isn't clear, i can post an example later today.
1863204;1539697457;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863198 << yes fs is a 1960-style db, i thought this was obvious
1863205;1539697457;a111;Logged on 2018-10-16 11:51 mircea_popescu: man-drive dialogue flows always like : "i want file X" "wtf is that ?" "tell me what i told you before file X is supposed to be" "bytes 4978459876 through 50987498098" "i want bytes 4978459876 through 50987498098 please" "here you go" "are these file X ?" "fuck you" "does file X even exist ?" "little bitch..." "grep -a -C 500 'known pattern' /dev/sda | tee /tmp/recover"
1863206;1539697536;asciilifeform;a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1863136 - machine needs no predefine fs, you can use whatever data structures you like and they'll still be there when the power is cycled, per http://www.loper-os.org/?p=231 formula.
1863207;1539697536;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 19:34 asciilifeform: for instance 1 possible answer is 'no files, errything is an s-expression, and names live in gns'
1863208;1539697699;asciilifeform;the fs as we know it is a classic example of 'plugging funnel at wrong end'.
1863209;1539698056;diana_coman;asciilifeform, good point; answered
1863210;1539698056;lobbesbot;diana_coman: Sent 14 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/16/smg-comms-chapter-2-raw-types/comment-page-1/#comment-4339
1863211;1539698057;asciilifeform;when disk was refrigerator-sized, its write speed was 100kB/sec, and ram cost 1 toyota per 128kB, in 1980, it made sense to ask operator to manually move data structures to/from disk/ram. imho today it does not. run in ram, persist it to flash when power cuts out , running from supercap.
1863212;1539698061;asciilifeform;ohai diana_coman
1863213;1539698076;diana_coman;it might really be that my ada-fu is not up to the task yet
1863214;1539698105;asciilifeform;diana_coman: dun worry, it will make sense very quickly when you bake the record
1863215;1539698128;diana_coman;I expect /hope so; meanwhile it's very good to have that observation there, thank you!
1863216;1539698137;asciilifeform;diana_coman: didja ever look at my 'nqb' example ? it has buncha records , that get serialized/deserialized correctly
1863217;1539698157;asciilifeform;( some components -- 'manually', as shitoshi used wildly variable sizes; some -- cleanly )
1863218;1539698158;diana_coman;I did; and I will re-visit it
1863219;1539698192;diana_coman;at any rate when I get to the records I might come and whine loudly if I get stuck
1863220;1539698192;asciilifeform;diana_coman: you won't need to do any of the streams horror that i did there, because those of your subfields that are arrays, have strictly bounded sizes
1863221;1539698235;diana_coman;thing is: there are lots of this "int8 number of keys" followed by "n*int8 key ids" and this in turn is just part of the wider thing
1863222;1539698257;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if you get stuck i'ma show you how to make it go, cleanly, i have a working example of nearly the same thing you're doing ( gossip prototype thing ) that simply hasn't been cleaned for publication of yet
1863223;1539698281;asciilifeform;same proggy i took the udp lib from
1863224;1539698281;BingoBoingo;hanbot: ty
1863225;1539698300;diana_coman;noted, thank you
1863226;1539698313;asciilifeform;np
1863227;1539698427;asciilifeform;of all the various items asciilifeform has used over the yrs, ada ( and not even 'modern', but even back in ada-83 ) has the absolute sanest support for strict record layout that actually worx as described
1863228;1539698450;asciilifeform;kinda like cl's 'binary-types' thing, but as part of the language, rather than add-on hackolade
1863229;1539698492;asciilifeform;it was one of the items i saw back in '16 and thought 'hmm'
1863230;1539698583;diana_coman;and added for clarification re converters since it struck me that it might be unclear there what's all about: http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/16/smg-comms-chapter-2-raw-types/comment-page-1/#comment-4341
1863231;1539698619;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this is correct, i think you grasped it
1863232;1539698719;diana_coman;that was my whole point of the separation between layer 0 and layer 1 there: at 0 everything is just an array of octets, nothing more
1863233;1539698741;diana_coman;anyway, when I get to the data structures, I'll see re serializing
1863234;1539698750;asciilifeform;diana_coman: aha; you dun actually need to shovel raw octets anywhere other than the udp transceiver
1863235;1539698763;diana_coman;yes
1863236;1539698857;asciilifeform;back when i wrote in c, i also serialized/deserialized 'just once', when casting packet to the correct struct, but to precisely nail down the latter required gcc-specific pragmas, as c per se does not give this ability. but in ada the required knobs are standard.
1863237;1539699977;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=54 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/13/2018
1863238;1539700574;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863220 << and this is such a fucking boon...
1863239;1539700574;a111;Logged on 2018-10-16 13:56 asciilifeform: diana_coman: you won't need to do any of the streams horror that i did there, because those of your subfields that are arrays, have strictly bounded sizes
1863240;1539700756;diana_coman;it is!
1863241;1539700907;mircea_popescu;anyway, those int8, nint
1863242;1539700924;mircea_popescu;things are kinda deliberately made to dovetail with ada, so i hope they do and if they don't we fix.
1863243;1539701068;diana_coman;kk; I'll keep up this approach of published-even-if-stumbling small steps so on one hand there is something concrete to shoot down if needed and on the other hand we can correct any trouble early on, hopefully
1863244;1539701493;mircea_popescu;sounds like the perfect plan
1863245;1539701994;mircea_popescu;anyway, /me shall be back ~thurs, though might say hi on the road. but will certainly read teh logs!
1863246;1539702984;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu
1863247;1539702992;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: enjoy the road
1863248;1539704863;BingoBoingo;Have fun
1863249;1539708225;BingoBoingo;In other local news, neighbors miss the recently destroyed, poorly stocked, drug fort https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/vecinos-extranan-la-seguridad-del-muro-narco-de-su-barrio-20181015192742
1863250;1539714337;diana_coman;!!v 494D05ED14F37EF04279E1E2734703FD2D424F0A05FBB0529D5BB3B31F24D3B2
1863251;1539714337;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of phf from 2 to 4 << writes at http://barksinthewind.com/
1863252;1539714419;diana_coman;!!v 7E1E4F2FE34E14D134AE36766BDB9B03A33E70E732EA895F3C85B5069050A5CC
1863253;1539714419;deedbot;diana_coman unrated EDLionX.
1863254;1539714499;diana_coman;!!v B028A6C69F57E59F9FF2C8A8D42E832AFBFCBA384BED37DCB6954AD2D85BC645
1863255;1539714499;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of hanbot from 2 to 5 << writes at http://thewhet.net/; met irl.
1863256;1539714625;diana_coman;!!v 7664D19896607450301C7F57F742BFEE0AD8A86C65BF93C176F82E1E781CC990
1863257;1539714626;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of mircea_popescu from 5 to 7 << writes at trilema.com; at the centre of it all, like it or not; met irl.
1863258;1539714712;diana_coman;!!v 954D1597F8088BE1679F8B983F91C936D5A90A12AE6AE7BC73634FEE5F6123E1
1863259;1539714712;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of mod6 from 3 to 4 << writes at http://mod6.net/
1863260;1539714760;diana_coman;!!v 51D9B2F000C98F62F624B2FEB04FE44F223ABA6477CC368D8B2632D33E584814
1863261;1539714761;deedbot;diana_coman unrated wyrdmantis.
1863262;1539714969;diana_coman;!!v 912DB9A1C6D979744DD512AAE2608ABA764A2ED6B936F990B49653D3AD463853
1863263;1539714969;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of lobbes from 2 to 3 << writes at http://blog.lobbesblog.com/
1863264;1539715032;diana_coman;!!v C5547478E1128CE2F64C3EEF99881B95E3F4ED3651A76126651A2F47B4BEBB08
1863265;1539715033;deedbot;diana_coman unrated andreicon.
1863266;1539715121;diana_coman;!!v DF1EDA520FF757011AF51DD8636BE05BB40407A53814815502998D715A045126
1863267;1539715122;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of esthlos from 1 to 2 << writes at http://blog.esthlos.com/
1863268;1539715370;diana_coman;!!v 28D6D307695429A291B597547A035ADA8EEE530E657A5B079B438406AA2CD4CD
1863269;1539715370;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of BingoBoingo from 3 to 4 << writes at bingology.net and qntra.net; moved to Uruguay and started Pizarro ISP.
1863270;1539715479;diana_coman;!!v 665D5265D7E55647EE0DD68AE67ADC43A270B1C3016F8EA1403181173E27CF37
1863271;1539715480;deedbot;diana_coman updated rating of trinque from 3 to 4 << writes at trinque.org; deedbot and cuntoo; he makes me want again to visit Texas.
1863272;1539715619;diana_coman;!!v 9DE75EF527902CC5D6B9AB61342C527E98BB7F3B5EE33C19E455290EC06A9E6B
1863273;1539715619;deedbot;diana_coman rated bvt 1 << introduced himself with well formed question on my blog
1863274;1539716020;diana_coman;!!v E5C2C32C4E2E92AC4415BA9BFBAA4715EACC29ED58A7D18699451B08905714BE
1863275;1539716020;deedbot;diana_coman rated deedbot 10 << Bot: voice, deeds, wallet; http://deedbot.org/help.html
1863276;1539716444;diana_coman;that should be all, apologies for the long list of !!v
1863277;1539716671;*;BingoBoingo back from paying the rent, pretty sure they eyes managed to get a bit of sunburn in spite of sunglasses
1863278;1539716819;diana_coman;o.O how do eyes get sunburn BingoBoingo ?
1863279;1539716853;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, also, "comminsion" in the most recent qntra title?
1863280;1539716874;asciilifeform;cornea burn ?
1863281;1539716886;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo has all-natural eyes, no glass
1863282;1539716934;asciilifeform;( possibly the 1 win from wearing glasses, is the uv filter coat... )
1863283;1539716937;BingoBoingo;Well, in this southern hell afternoon walks may lead to a bit of a headache. It increases in intensity and seens to be centered around the eyes.
1863284;1539716964;asciilifeform;mno then not this, no headache from cornea burn, just 1 hell of an itch and quicker cataract
1863285;1539716982;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I did wear the UV filters today
1863286;1539716998;asciilifeform;then what ails you is old-fashioned heat stroke, drink water
1863287;1539717029;BingoBoingo;That could be it
1863288;1539717368;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: ty, fxd
1863289;1539717482;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, second asciilifeform there: it does sound like heat stroke really; cover your head
1863290;1539717529;BingoBoingo;Natural headcover still intact
1863291;1539717588;diana_coman;I can say the same, but honestly, it was never enough protection against the sun (and fwiw I have thick hair anyway)
1863292;1539717665;diana_coman;anyways, each with their own head
1863293;1539717672;asciilifeform;when i was in BingoBoingostan, found myself on numerous occasions wishing for cork helmet.
1863294;1539717690;asciilifeform;but interestingly 0 sunburn, in asciilifeform's experience sunburn seems to exist only in usa..
1863295;1539717771;diana_coman;ahahah; well, I did get sunburn on my shoulders in Costa Rica but mainly because of being in the water most of time while at the beach
1863296;1539717913;*;BingoBoingo has met a number of not entirely white Brazillians who managed to pick up profound beach sunburn
1863297;1539718159;deedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2018/10/16/pizarro-september-2018-provisional-statement/ << PizarroISP - Pizarro September 2018 Provisional Statement
1863298;1539718170;diana_coman;I can easily picture that really; at any rate, I got otherwise at least 2 shades darker after the few days by the ocean and even now (so...2 months later) I'm still darker than my natural shade
1863299;1539718261;BingoBoingo;My arms and legs manage to tan to darker shades with sun exposure, but my face pretty much constantly stays in a state of more or less accute sunburn regardless of the quantity and frequency of "bloqueador de sol" applied
1863300;1539722171;Mocky;BingoBoingo, usually by the end of winter I look like a coffee with too much cream, but slightly too much summer sun and I turn into kunta kinte for 6 months
1863301;1539724890;BingoBoingo;Mocky: That sounds rather healthy. My face and ears have taken to the color red as a seemingly permanent part of their color palette
1863302;1539726662;BingoBoingo;Mocky: How is Qatar feeling? Does it feel normal yet?
1863303;1539727355;BingoBoingo;ATTN: Over the next few weeks I will be making some fairly big changes to the Pizarro website (theme chopping, pictures, etc) If the pizarro site is broken and stays broken please let me know.
1863304;1539728622;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/9-proud-boys-charged-by-nypd-after-being-ambushed-by-antifa-npc-mob/ << Qntra - 9 "Proud Boys" Charged By NYPD After Being Ambushed By Antifa NPC Mob
1863305;1539735864;asciilifeform;* deedbot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) << trinque ?
1863306;1539736010;trinque;huh, was rebooted without consent! raaaep!!
1863307;1539736012;trinque;ty asciilifeform
1863308;1539736015;asciilifeform;np
1863309;1539736181;trinque;going to intentionally reboot and make sure I fixed what didn't resurrect last time
1863310;1539736266;trinque;great
1863311;1539741339;mircea_popescu;fucking rain.
1863312;1539741569;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863300 << i think he now also counts as african-american.
1863313;1539741569;a111;Logged on 2018-10-16 20:36 Mocky: BingoBoingo, usually by the end of winter I look like a coffee with too much cream, but slightly too much summer sun and I turn into kunta kinte for 6 months
1863314;1539741716;asciilifeform;rain ? was mircea_popescu flyin' in a gilder or wat
1863315;1539741720;asciilifeform;*glider
1863316;1539742121;mircea_popescu;eh some bs tropical storm, rains perpetually till friday.
1863317;1539751815;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=55 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/14/2018
1863318;1539777877;ave1;!!rate diana_coman 4 solid programmer, eulora, gives helpful comments
1863319;1539777882;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BKkiQ/?raw=true
1863320;1539777936;ave1;!!v 67FB78EB60BE44228090D26CBAC5BDEB87A66FE5093C4E72B1D0BC59CDE1CA3D
1863321;1539777937;deedbot;ave1 rated diana_coman 4 << solid programmer, eulora, gives helpful comments
1863322;1539777947;ave1;!!rate spyked 2 wrote a scheme in Ada
1863323;1539777951;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/07P6R/?raw=true
1863324;1539777988;ave1;!!v E84ED8E7596F54F0475AFAE48D3C05A8DAB4398CD448362760CC7D0C6C5913F5
1863325;1539777988;deedbot;ave1 rated spyked 2 << wrote a scheme in Ada
1863326;1539778111;ave1;!!v A8BE101EA1E276935B933CDEF8266F1E7EDBD6B7D9C7CAD5DC281C67200B9F71
1863327;1539778112;deedbot;ave1 rated asciilifeform 4 << republican tool maker
1863328;1539778140;ave1;!!v 5FA007E23D58DCE97E0FCA554C5E81218823B85D3FD5FC32165B1195F6333C3A
1863329;1539778141;deedbot;ave1 rated mircea_popescu 4 << boss
1863330;1539778172;ave1;!!v 360D72A423E45F2009511B43314B82F4176034B165570855FDE5616ED82816F1
1863331;1539778173;deedbot;ave1 rated trinque 2 << cuntoo and the wallet
1863332;1539778207;ave1;!!v B4FB0AC2F46CA6AC8FB317A0095743923B23E88BBFD1E69865B4DFC194C640B7
1863333;1539778207;deedbot;ave1 rated phf 2 << vtools
1863334;1539778235;ave1;!!v F838DF1ECB0CE486335568609A06ACFD946A4B337C4CE7E3EE1F164FA3392BD1
1863335;1539778236;deedbot;ave1 rated BingoBoingo 3 << fearless explorer
1863336;1539778260;ave1;!!v 6D719C3564B6AFCDD0061CF5F75613E6C9B7A122D9BC69E97AAA0E5DFAC5F43F
1863337;1539778260;deedbot;ave1 rated lobbes 2 << auctionbot and archiving
1863338;1539778284;ave1;!!v 8B1C4E0521743B6C8601CD3613CA09B304CA3339D7F52FAF76B67427E7B49D9A
1863339;1539778285;deedbot;ave1 rated hanbot 2 << mp-wp
1863340;1539778291;ave1;and done...
1863341;1539789301;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07b-heraklion.html << The Tar Pit -
1863342;1539789341;asciilifeform;ohai spyked ! wb!
1863343;1539789389;*;asciilifeform suspected '50:50' 'eaten by heathens' vs 'long voyage under sail'. happily turns out -- the latter
1863344;1539789402;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/canada-shuttering-numerous-small-businesses-in-favor-of-state-enterprise-under-cannabis-legalization-pretext/ << Qntra - Canada Shuttering Numerous Small Businesses In Favor Of State Enterprise Under "Cannabis Legalization" Pretext
1863345;1539790649;mircea_popescu;not bad!
1863346;1539791814;asciilifeform;meanwhile in heathen idjicy (expert entomologists strictly!) : https://archive.is/tDauD << notice what's conspicuously missing...
1863347;1539792002;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-20#984618 << Confirmed idiots long ago http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-04#1421677
1863348;1539792002;a111;Logged on 2015-01-20 19:18 mircea_popescu: "BitMEX is the first centrally cleared derivatives exchange. " << the first it certainly isn't.
1863349;1539792002;a111;Logged on 2016-03-04 13:39 davout: I started looking into how bitmex's engine actually works, and god, it's an abomination
1863350;1539792152;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: afaik all public 'exchanges' are tentacles of the beast, at this point, to ~exactly equal extent, and for the obv reason
1863351;1539792161;asciilifeform;and for yrs nao
1863352;1539792201;BingoBoingo;Well, pointing out the STRML dude from BitMex was here, can not claim ignorance
1863353;1539792231;asciilifeform;that ~anybody~ at this point 'can claim ignorance' is imho a laugh
1863354;1539792271;BingoBoingo;Well, there's the NPC thing
1863355;1539792306;asciilifeform;in not wholly-unrelated lulz, the # of prb 'nodes' that break the protocol in all kinds of ways, is astonishing even to asciilifeform ; it's a wonder they manage to relay anyffing at all
1863356;1539792473;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-17#1863344 << i expect it'll be something like the traditional state vodka monopoly in ru
1863357;1539792473;a111;Logged on 2018-10-17 15:16 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/canada-shuttering-numerous-small-businesses-in-favor-of-state-enterprise-under-cannabis-legalization-pretext/ << Qntra - Canada Shuttering Numerous Small Businesses In Favor Of State Enterprise Under "Cannabis Legalization" Pretext
1863358;1539792576;asciilifeform;( going for ~200 yrs nao, with very short pause during attempt at 'dry law' and then revolution )
1863359;1539792660;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The Canadian arrangement appears to be large "favored son" private grow ops selling profitably to the provincial governments who then go on to mark the stuff up even more.
1863360;1539792784;BingoBoingo;Like the ABC stores in shitty US states, except with more explicit collusion than the ABC stores can get with liquor makers.
1863361;1539792927;BingoBoingo;It also is apparently illegal in Canadia to have more than 30 grams of "legal" weed. I never recall there being any limits on how many budweisers a cornfuck can keep in their fridge.
1863362;1539793600;asciilifeform;hey, догоним и перегоним америку (tm)(r), y'know, where it's soft-illegal to have moar than, what, 20k in benjie
1863363;1539793702;asciilifeform;i suppose if yer found with 'stockpile', it 'proves' that you didn't get it from them ( why wouldja stockpile a thing that comes from 'abc store' )
1863364;1539793820;trinque;the point is to make competition with state monopoly illegal
1863365;1539793840;trinque;if stockpiling, must be selling
1863366;1539793869;asciilifeform;that's the Official arg, at any rate; but i suspect a broader thing
1863367;1539793885;BingoBoingo;What, National Geographic never aired 4 seasons of "Doomsday Preppers" about people keeping years of beans in their closets?
1863368;1539793945;trinque;asciilifeform: if you can't own businesses, how can you own anything. so yes, much broader
1863369;1539793990;trinque;same bullshit that wraps american industries in "compliance" sinew
1863370;1539794246;BingoBoingo;Anyways, Canada only allows 4 plants as opposed to every where else's 6 plants or 6 mature plants. With 4 plants a Candian could havest anywhere from 40 grams to 20 kilograms dry weight.
1863371;1539794302;BingoBoingo;And it is clear fiatists fear drugs as a more real currency than their own offering.
1863372;1539794696;BingoBoingo;Republic settles in bitcoins, filthy hippies settle in weird dry flowers, fiatists instead try to imagineer their way out of settling transactions
1863373;1539794741;asciilifeform;the moar general item alluded to , is that from pantshit pov , 'unauthorized hoarders' of ~any~ tradeable/valuable item, not merely btc,gold,magic leaf, are 'problem'
1863374;1539794793;BingoBoingo;AHA, that is exactly why cannabis piece needed cultivation section
1863375;1539795035;BingoBoingo;Promotion of the hoarding of tradable valuables is a principal republic value
1863376;1539795090;BingoBoingo;Now, the dry flower hoarder is going to be poorer than the Bitcoin hoarder because it takes large amounts of flowers to sum up to anything of value
1863377;1539795248;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: see also ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835153
1863378;1539795248;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 17:05 asciilifeform: '...Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal...' etc
1863379;1539795282;BingoBoingo;Other principal republican value is killing moths and vermin
1863380;1539795397;asciilifeform;re 'preppers'(tm)(r), usg has a certain lulzy tradition, where they set up honeypot vendors for 'prepping supplies' (buckets, cosmoline, etc) and keep list of who's buyin', 'for later'
1863381;1539795408;BingoBoingo;They do indeed
1863382;1539795568;*;BingoBoingo at some point will likely edit and publish the out takes that weren't central enough to make cannabis piece.
1863383;1539795630;BingoBoingo;Like how nearly all pantsuit grow guides push closet cultivation with ebay/amazon honeypot shopping lists
1863384;1539795682;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i once bought a lamp for indoor tomato pot; still getting occasional spamola re 'growism'
1863385;1539795703;hanbot;BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ojr9f/?raw=true
1863386;1539795795;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-17#1863359 << bureaucracy tryna be as cool as mob. traditional way for the dicklets to hang themselves.
1863387;1539795795;a111;Logged on 2018-10-17 16:11 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The Canadian arrangement appears to be large "favored son" private grow ops selling profitably to the provincial governments who then go on to mark the stuff up even more.
1863388;1539795876;BingoBoingo;hanbot: ty
1863389;1539795946;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-17#1863383 << AAAAHA. very much this sorta lulz.
1863390;1539795946;a111;Logged on 2018-10-17 17:00 BingoBoingo: Like how nearly all pantsuit grow guides push closet cultivation with ebay/amazon honeypot shopping lists
1863391;1539795979;mircea_popescu;"here's a list of gps bracelets, anklets and necklaces for people who wanna break out of the zone" "are you fucking stupid ?" "niggers usually are."
1863392;1539796129;asciilifeform;i've ended up on the spam lists, they push errything from dead-tree 'how-to'-s (because, i suppose, if chump is this dumb, he is prolly on aol, and can't download scans, and will ~pay~ for xerox-of-xerox...) , to faux bananistani 'passports', to weirdo sect/christ-besotted crapolade
1863393;1539796204;asciilifeform;( see prev thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561736 )
1863394;1539796204;a111;Logged on 2016-11-01 23:36 asciilifeform: and yes, being on that list apparently nominates you for EVERY pyramid scheme, herbal viagra, !!!!!!URGENT!!!!! faux-irs envelope, etc. scam in usa.
1863395;1539796316;asciilifeform;btw if anyone recalls carl force, the sr 'detective' -- iirc he actually bought one of them 'passports' and thought to break from zone with it !
1863396;1539796376;asciilifeform;( i betcha his cellmates laugh even today when he tells about this, over a cup of whatever-they-drink-instead-of-chifir over there )
1863397;1539796394;mircea_popescu;ikr!
1863398;1539796395;BingoBoingo;Now imagine Canada, they would advertise they are the Canadian Government selling fake passports
1863399;1539796712;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: typically, for smalltime scamola targeted at outright downs syndrome cases, they use http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-01#472247 algo, rather than direct marketing
1863400;1539796712;a111;Logged on 2014-02-01 13:05 mircea_popescu: 4. you subdivide both divisions. now you have a list of people who know you fucked up twice, this you discard ; two lists of people who think you go tone out of two. these you merge ; a most valuable list of idiots who think you got 2 out of 2.
1863401;1539800320;BingoBoingo;hanbot: Package recieved, please issue an invoice
1863402;1539800435;*;asciilifeform pictures BingoBoingo uncrating a... duck
1863403;1539800460;BingoBoingo;Why only one?
1863404;1539800539;asciilifeform;lol
1863405;1539800617;BingoBoingo;There is one known very priviledged duck in this world too valuable to be used to satisfy this transaction, and then there are the world's other ducks which are a tastier alternative to chicken and priced accordingly
1863406;1539802150;BingoBoingo;In other classics: "No person on earth who reads this little work will condemn it: it is only a question how many millions may look through it and benefit themselves by adopting its precepts." The preface to George Catlin's mega work titled 'Shut Your Mouth'
1863407;1539812787;mircea_popescu;ajhajhaja
1863408;1539813993;BingoBoingo;It also has the extended title "Shut Your Mouth And Save Your Life"
1863409;1539823777;asciilifeform;in other minor noose, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hKCPp/?raw=true << preliminary db schema for node hunter
1863410;1539823811;asciilifeform;^ comments from db experts welcome ( trinque , ben_vulpes , mircea_popescu ? )
1863411;1539824167;asciilifeform;^ and if anyone has a handy dumpblock-derived list with which to populate known_blocks , plox to sign & post, otherwise i'ma bake one laters
1863412;1539824284;asciilifeform;i'm currently thinking of giving 'tx observatory' a rollover of 3 days ( i.e. drop all that have time older than 3d, nightly ) to keep the mass manageable there
1863413;1539824375;asciilifeform;probe algo currently simple: 1) ip:port thrown in search box 2) probed 3) getaddr 4) all ip:port from (3) queued for probe
1863414;1539824474;asciilifeform;when idling, N (parallel) threads select probe candidates from 'nodes', with highest priority given to 'untried', followed by 'live', followed by 'dead', in the latter two cases probed if and only if 'time_probed' is > hour ago
1863415;1539824557;asciilifeform;candidates added via peer recurse (i.e. getaddr output) start with state 'untried'
1863416;1539824619;asciilifeform;if node answers, it gets asked version, then getaddr, then given 10sec to issue 'inv' (for tx observatory), then (not baked this yet) gets asked to provide a block from known_blocks.
1863417;1539824642;asciilifeform;that's pretty much it.
1863418;1539825143;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ozQFw/?raw=true << with minor fix.
1863419;1539825268;asciilifeform;prolly goes without saying, but i'ma perma-ignore anyffing that aint on ipv4
1863420;1539825295;asciilifeform;( this includes ipv6, 'tor', whatever abortions )
1863421;1539825350;asciilifeform;and eventually nodes that show 0 symptoms of prbism will get priority in rescan queue.
1863422;1539825402;asciilifeform;( in prelim experiment thus far, virtually errything that aint a known trb noad, appears to show one or more obv symptoms )
1863423;1539846072;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=56 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/15/2018
1863424;1539857565;deedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/18/smg-comms-chapter-3-packing-serpent/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 3: Packing Serpent
1863425;1539872730;asciilifeform;in other lulz, 'VMware ESXi, Fusion and Workstation contain an out-of-bounds read vulnerability in SVGA device. This issue may allow a guest to execute code on the host.'
1863426;1539872746;asciilifeform;( unlike e.g. xen, these are pretty rare, at least publicly )
1863427;1539872886;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863423 >> 'Tree A is single' << this dun tell much...
1863428;1539872886;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 07:01 deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=56 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/15/2018
1863429;1539873746;BingoBoingo;For some reason my tonsils got huge and they feel like they are trying to pull out the insides of my ears. Going to go test the socialized medicine.
1863430;1539877997;mircea_popescu;too much dulche the leche icecream bb!
1863431;1539878059;asciilifeform;that or finally mumps
1863432;1539878105;mircea_popescu;he never had it AND not vaccinated ?!
1863433;1539878111;asciilifeform;iirc
1863434;1539878119;mircea_popescu;why the fuck ?
1863435;1539878130;asciilifeform;ameristan?
1863436;1539878204;asciilifeform;tho i did think the 'vaccination, eh, so 19th c' thing were a recent ('90s?) fashion
1863437;1539878260;mircea_popescu;i have nfi what you're talking about. as far as i know ~all white kids are vaccinated around 1 year and then right before kindergarten ; and have since about 1920.
1863438;1539878272;asciilifeform;it's what i thought ! but apparently not
1863439;1539878364;mircea_popescu;i find this kinda hard to believe.
1863440;1539878365;asciilifeform;i learned, for instance, that '80s-born folx in usa never got smallpox vaccine
1863441;1539878385;asciilifeform;( bush II hurriedly reintroduced it, but only in the army )
1863442;1539878546;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, http://thetarpit.org/uploads/2018/10/heraklion-15-thumb.jpg << is that serpentine a typical greek runway ? somehow seems oddly adequate...
1863443;1539878552;asciilifeform;hmm, possibly ben_vulpes knows the troof re what vaccines still given in usa to schoolkidz.
1863444;1539878583;asciilifeform;lol! that's a runway?!
1863445;1539878591;mircea_popescu;in crete.
1863446;1539878594;asciilifeform;for what, i wonder, for daedalus ?
1863447;1539878607;mircea_popescu;are you questioning their traditions ?
1863448;1539878616;asciilifeform;affirming!11
1863449;1539879624;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in news from ivan :
1863450;1539879650;mircea_popescu;"littlems_muffin  21F sub 6d Your fantasy of obtaining already serving woman is fucking sad mate! Not even close to a reality. Go fuck yourself instead. Do not disrespect me again. Master Ivan" "LordMPofTMSR 37M Master 6d Oh sorry, I thought it was Igor."
1863451;1539879737;asciilifeform;wonder how many of those accts consist solely of ivan, and a paper cutout placeholder chix 'so others come'. sorta like duck hunt decoy.
1863452;1539879740;mircea_popescu;i would guess about 60% or so of 2?F "sub" girlies exist on fetlife only as the fruit of the overactive imagination of a beta "M" somewhere.
1863453;1539879746;asciilifeform;^
1863454;1539879750;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha! close to two thirds, really.
1863455;1539879785;mircea_popescu;in this sense, "transsexualism" is merely conceptyual leakage brought about by the sort of leaky abstractions that go in the making of an ivan in the first place.
1863456;1539879797;asciilifeform;'you are what you pretend to be'(tm)(r) eh
1863457;1539879802;mircea_popescu;you know ?
1863458;1539879835;asciilifeform;sorta why the ancients distrusted theatre actors, neh
1863459;1539879856;mircea_popescu;we could restate the life narrative of the millenian in the terminology of "It may be argued that what is wrong with Soviet art is not that it restricts itself to the common experience but that its version of that experience is false; were it faithfully to reflect the true experience of the Soviet masses it might be valid art. But how can one speak of a common Soviet experience without taking into account that it itself is fo
1863460;1539879857;mircea_popescu;rmed by Soviet mass culture? Mass-cultural statements are constantly in the process of making themselves true by causing people to experience their common lives in those terms." :
1863461;1539879871;mircea_popescu;1. teenager goes on journey. finds no mate.
1863462;1539879928;mircea_popescu;2. twentysomething "has learned something from his journey", proceeds to explore the vast echo chambers of "social" media with IMPROVED TOOLS!!! he has  paper cutout placeholder chix 'so others come' nao, he is sly and urban nao, all those "other losers" that don't think of this (null set) be damned.
1863463;1539879944;mircea_popescu;3. thirtysomething has spent most of his formative sexual years pretending to be female. well...
1863464;1539880119;asciilifeform;in sov. urban legendology there is a persistent, if not particularly plausible, tale, that some d00d had been given the job of dressing up in bear costume for brezhnev's safaris, and eventually shot
1863465;1539880182;asciilifeform;( 'played role to the end! growled as he expired! posthumous award of order-of-lenin!' )
1863466;1539880188;mircea_popescu;apparently there's nothing quite as destructive of the human mind than insistently inculcated & socialized conviction that "there's a lot out there". i liveblogged how this fucked up argentina, ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-31#1442615 will have to do, i can't find the original discussion with the local dork now) and well...
1863467;1539880188;a111;Logged on 2016-03-31 15:52 mircea_popescu: and the start and end of it all is, these atrocious fucktards, who think "sadly there's too many bars" and the whole surface of club in buenos aires would fit in one sane club in a sane place,
1863468;1539880239;asciilifeform;the aolization of the net created this illusion; is what gave us spam, 'marketing', pestilential ads
1863469;1539880252;asciilifeform;'there are infinite chumps, nao if could find'em'
1863470;1539880259;mircea_popescu;it's defo fucked up the worldview of the pleb. http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ doesn't even begin to do the topic justice.
1863471;1539880281;mircea_popescu;there's just this baked in assumption that "LOT OUYT THERE!!!" when in fact there is ~0, not even epsilon, outright ~0, out there.
1863472;1539880307;asciilifeform;in reality mostly bots talking to one another. with the occasional meatbot in the mix.
1863473;1539880309;mircea_popescu;by the time you have to employ alien tech to extract some useful out of the pile, ocean-sifters of epic scale purpose built etc...
1863474;1539880347;mircea_popescu;and yet, http://trilema.com/2017/i-think-they-might-be-overdoing-it-in-places/#selection-97.159-97.461
1863475;1539880450;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform thinking about it, the discussed problem re spam, http://trilema.com/2015/you-know-what-gets-no-airplay-unflattering-truth/#selection-931.0-931.721 is exactly borne of the same fount that gave us "transsexuals", yes.
1863476;1539880475;asciilifeform;imho biggest surprise re mircea_popescu's fetlife dig is that any actual chix turned up at all. i wouldn't have expected there were any.
1863477;1539880476;mircea_popescu;this hallucination of the adolescent mind that "definitely lots of chicks in cemetery, now if only could find right place to dig".
1863478;1539880723;mircea_popescu;a converse way to look at it would be to say that online atomization overrepresents schelling points
1863479;1539880829;mircea_popescu;in fact, 80% or more of what passes fro "creative" these days, ie shitty cable shows and "stand up comedy" consist entirely of "recognition porn". turtles visiting tokyo, "hey, turtle from osaka, you too thought the tram was a large dog ?!" "yes turtle from kyoto, that's exactly what i thought when i first saw a tram, did you think so too ?!" "yes this is a brilliant idea to think".
1863480;1539880857;mircea_popescu;buncha fucken turtles. but the problem is, as ~100% of the population is coming to town from the first time, well... ~THE TOWN~ ends up consisting of what first time towners think the town's like.
1863481;1539880876;mircea_popescu;sadly tokyo doesn't enjoy a lengthy history APART from the moron invasion.
1863482;1539880902;mircea_popescu;(of course it does, but "nobody knows" because "it's not in vice" and "nobody with a clue would be here anyway" etc.)
1863483;1539880911;asciilifeform;after a coupla cycles of this, what history possibly left.
1863484;1539881048;mircea_popescu;and i think w'ere really on cycle 5
1863485;1539881071;mircea_popescu;i mean, 1993 was cycle 1. then there was the wikitardia thing, alongside "slashdot" and "fark" and so on. that was defo 2.
1863486;1539881095;mircea_popescu;then there's a digg cycle, and then there's a reddit cycle. and there probably was a small one in between, with wordpress and "shoemoney" and "web20" etc.
1863487;1539881099;mircea_popescu;so, 5.
1863488;1539881116;asciilifeform;wtf was 'shoemoney'
1863489;1539881121;asciilifeform;i missed this one
1863490;1539881162;asciilifeform;( my model dun differ so much from mircea_popescu's, aside from where i lump the digg & reddit waves together in lump element, afaik they consisted of largely same lost souls )
1863491;1539881251;mircea_popescu;you're familiar with how alphabet co pretends to have income ?
1863492;1539881284;mircea_popescu;100% of that entirely fictitious pile is built out of a generalized belief that there is such a thing as "adwords" and it does exchange money, and well... that guy was the early (and really, only) winner of that lottery market.
1863493;1539881288;asciilifeform;aha, gets buckets of printolade and dresses up as 'income', like other usg.tbtf.corps.*
1863494;1539881307;mircea_popescu;somehow hollywood had to pay millions in salaries to the few selected chumnps in its entire existence to keep the flow of waitresses going
1863495;1539881331;mircea_popescu;not so for alphabet, paid that moron a mn a decade ago, its groupon is STILL GOING. and htey're claiming however many billions
1863496;1539881379;mircea_popescu;but anyway, it's a refinement on paul graham's scam ( http://trilema.com/2015/investigations-in-the-bone-heap-of-the-lost-generation-today-mashable/#footnote_6_59020 )
1863497;1539881420;asciilifeform;hey, 'spreading -- works!', subscribe to google ads and get the 'asked-for' number of 'clicks' (from bots, but who promised anyffing in particular)
1863498;1539881444;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823658 << this item. 80 years worth of "highest paid man/woman/dog in hollywood" rolled into one
1863499;1539881444;a111;Logged on 2018-06-12 03:03 Mocky: ahahaha shoemoney and his mfa check for $130k made out to 'nextpimp', man what a decade
1863500;1539881468;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the matter is extensively documented on trilema at that. cost me a few grand, but hey, can't have free science.
1863501;1539881570;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> he never had it AND not vaccinated ?! << Vaccinated
1863502;1539881576;BingoBoingo;Verdict is tonsilitis
1863503;1539881577;asciilifeform;oh ha
1863504;1539881601;asciilifeform;that was quick
1863505;1539881637;BingoBoingo;Walked to the emergency room after calling and finding every clinic appointment slot booked until next week
1863506;1539881673;BingoBoingo;After checking in at the desk maybe 45 minutes of waiting
1863507;1539881675;asciilifeform;in usa just walking through that door would be a $1000+ ding
1863508;1539881692;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you recall right off where the cannonical statement of "why pay 10mn dorks 50k each when could pick 3 to pay 10mn ea and let the rest hope" lottery tickets thread lives ?
1863509;1539881698;BingoBoingo;Doctor took a look and wrote the antibiotic script
1863510;1539881703;asciilifeform;!#s tournament market
1863511;1539881704;a111;28 results for "tournament market", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tournament%20market
1863512;1539881708;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu ^ in there somewhere
1863513;1539881717;mircea_popescu;pretty sure io had a write-up re hollywood, but now can't turn it up.
1863514;1539881759;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824129 , http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-15#422041 , possibl in between
1863515;1539881759;a111;Logged on 2018-06-12 20:38 mircea_popescu: ok. let's go back to the original tournament market, the hollywood studio.
1863516;1539881759;a111;Logged on 2013-12-15 01:18 mircea_popescu: a tournament market, like typiocally the 1mn starlets waiting tables in hollywood is there to exploit labour.
1863517;1539881814;mircea_popescu;very late restatement.
1863518;1539881822;mircea_popescu;but... ima take it.
1863519;1539881850;asciilifeform;'tournaments' seem to work. in particular in that starving 'hopers' will jump livelier and higher than 50k 'it's my day jerb' folx.
1863520;1539881887;mircea_popescu;they only work on low information voters ("coincidentally", the only sort of voter her most pantsuited hilarity ever wants).
1863521;1539881895;mircea_popescu;ie, they're for young boys with little value.
1863522;1539882115;asciilifeform;came up in the recent douchebag threads also. ( worx great, apparently, for keeping douchebag et al on the treadmill )
1863523;1539882119;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo so you get what, sulpha ? antibiotics ?
1863524;1539882124;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform which i count as a great benefit.
1863525;1539882151;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Amoxicillin 750 mg cada 8 horas por 10 dias
1863526;1539882156;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: how's that ?
1863527;1539882156;mircea_popescu;worx.
1863528;1539882208;BingoBoingo;I was also asked if I wanted a note to take off from work, because apparently that is what 80% of the other ER walkins were there for
1863529;1539882209;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform douchebag is pretty much the only thing i don't really want. "Once complete the children are sorted by score, and the bottom thirdi is sold by open outcry (the males are neutered first)." and all that.
1863530;1539882218;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo did you say yes ?
1863531;1539882225;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: but are these born ? or bonsaikittened into existence
1863532;1539882243;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: lol! such sovok!
1863533;1539882257;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I said no, I don't need the note. If I go back I'll get one the next time
1863534;1539882268;mircea_popescu;keks.
1863535;1539882283;*;BingoBoingo forgot how awful amoxicillin tastes in suspension
1863536;1539882294;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i have little confidence in this "all humans born human" hopes.
1863537;1539882340;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: near as i could tell, d00d had plenty of native intelligence. but grew up in the circus, and so knows nuffin but idjit acrobatics.
1863538;1539882380;mircea_popescu;i do not belive, since we're doign disbeliefs, in this starry-eyed view of intelligence where it's a gift, like ambidexterity, or a property, like penis size, and "life can enhance or dishance it".
1863539;1539882408;mircea_popescu;no such fucking thing, it's exactly like genetics -- genetically present traits may or may not phenotypically manifest. but if they do not -- THEY WERE NEVER THERE.
1863540;1539882433;asciilifeform;dunno, e.g. pb poisoning, is a thing
1863541;1539882460;mircea_popescu;yes, but intelligence is not a thing.
1863542;1539882504;mircea_popescu;intelligence is, imo, very much like the concept of "luck", or dreamlike causation : the retrofitted imaginary "cause", constructed retrospectively.
1863543;1539882516;mircea_popescu;really its only practical function is anxiety modulation in the waking state.
1863544;1539882539;asciilifeform;it's a thing like agility, or strength ( rather than height, or cock girth, etc )
1863545;1539882552;mircea_popescu;not at all.
1863546;1539882581;mircea_popescu;it's a thing like "prescience" or "telepathy" : only exists through the process that sufferer's more likely to notice sustaining examples than disproving examples.
1863547;1539882645;asciilifeform;some lions can be trained to play 'tetris', others, no matter how much stick and cookie, not, mircea_popescu of all people i expect would know this
1863548;1539882659;mircea_popescu;but this is established after the training and not afore.
1863549;1539882661;mircea_popescu;therefore...
1863550;1539882686;asciilifeform;lol how would one conceive of establishing it without the training
1863551;1539882716;mircea_popescu;there's a difference between "cat is there whether you look or not" and "we'll put a cat in some boxes you look into, let us know which"
1863552;1539882727;mircea_popescu;the latter "cat" doesn't exist, and intelligence is of the same ilk.
1863553;1539882765;asciilifeform;same model as strength, agility. tho. where is strength before subj is asked to lift the weight.
1863554;1539882965;mircea_popescu;same place.
1863555;1539882988;mircea_popescu;we have mechanical model for strength, and i can make predictions BEFORE the fact, and built entirely on measurements unrelated to "please lift this weight"
1863556;1539883036;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> in usa just walking through that door would be a $1000+ ding << For completeness, there was also the option to have a "radiodoctor" do a house call, but I figured the intel gathering opportunity on the hospital at a time when I'm a least several days removed for threat of mortality would be the higher return option
1863557;1539883080;mircea_popescu;kinda rehash of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-11#1849373 discussion, at that.
1863558;1539883080;a111;Logged on 2018-09-11 00:26 mircea_popescu: "i have this inorganic polymerization model which permits me to predict the behaviour of calcium-based matrices and also predicts that should you replace the calcium with strontium, the oxigen content cvadruples ans there's need for an item extra in there that's just like aluminum for so and so reasons"
1863559;1539883107;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo you know you get a bunch of utri. should prolly not smoke.
1863560;1539883320;BingoBoingo;I'm coming back around to that position
1863561;1539883419;mircea_popescu;(utri == upper respiratory tract infection", to help the future summarizers)
1863562;1539883946;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i obv dun have a reductive model, and dun know of any honest people who ever claimed to. but this is somewhat diff thing than 'to even try model is waste of time, it's rngolade'
1863563;1539884567;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863546 >> if this is true then "you're not smart enough be here" is as meaningful as "not telepathic enough"
1863564;1539884567;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 17:09 mircea_popescu: it's a thing like "prescience" or "telepathy" : only exists through the process that sufferer's more likely to notice sustaining examples than disproving examples.
1863565;1539886369;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Smart includes education and experience. Intelligence is an RPG stat
1863566;1539886585;Mocky;I can see that view, but by evaluating it only education and experience, runs into the same >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863542
1863567;1539886585;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 17:08 mircea_popescu: intelligence is, imo, very much like the concept of "luck", or dreamlike causation : the retrofitted imaginary "cause", constructed retrospectively.
1863568;1539886603;Mocky;*only after*
1863569;1539887067;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=57 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/16/2018
1863570;1539887504;asciilifeform;Mocky: yes it's an imaginary object. q is whether 'imaginary like devils' or 'imaginary like electron cloud'. i favour the latter, mircea_popescu , i think, the former
1863571;1539888516;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform im not making either of those two strong statements. but it does seem to me that the reason you don't have a model is that you're trying to model somethingt that doesn't exist (not that the UNDERLYING PHENOMENA don't exist). much like people "didn't have a model" of earth-centric cosmos.
1863572;1539888529;mircea_popescu;not because "planets don't move" but because "not around earth".
1863573;1539888671;mircea_popescu;Mocky i actually distinguish between smarts (the reductive ability, that powers "i suspect there's no such thing as intelligence", and typified perhaps best by d. kyon) and "intelligence" (the constructive ability, that powers "more loc, more tech, more future", and typified perhaps best by "fm-2030" ).
1863574;1539888948;mircea_popescu;there ~certainly~ exists such a thing as "ability to see through bells and whistles", uniting with a strong red thread the 1800s definition of a man ( http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/#selection-31.205-31.374 ) and the 2000s definition of a man ( as say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826859 ).
1863575;1539888948;a111;Logged on 2018-06-19 16:55 mircea_popescu: douchebag looky, the place's not for you. you're not smart enough to be here. what's so hard to grok about this ? some people are smart, some people aren't smart, you're not smart. what, you have to be dragged out, your legs don't work, what is it ?
1863576;1539889003;mircea_popescu;and in fact the complaint wasn't "you're not telepathic enough to be here" in any sense, but quite specifically "after having been shown the bells and the whistles from different angles and being allowed some digestion time you ~still~ don't manage to recognize them, and therefore lack the fundamental ability required to participate in the affairs of humanity".
1863577;1539889058;mircea_popescu;which i stand behind, ftr ; and it is also what informs the "if they had any sense -- they'd be here" stance. the fact that rando can't cut through fetlife to find the meat / can't cut through internet to find trilema / can't cut through femstate to find bitcoin / can't cut through pantsuitism to find republic etc specifically means that rando is dull, ie, not smart.
1863578;1539889075;mircea_popescu;but this seems scarcely what's being discussed when one talks of "intelligence".
1863579;1539889166;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-08#1193607 << related, imho, thrd
1863580;1539889166;a111;Logged on 2015-07-08 19:34 ascii_field: far more interesting is the trait hasn eysenck called 'psychoticism'
1863581;1539889166;mircea_popescu;90% of the time i try to read something, the attempt fails ; and almost always it is because the author is insulting my smarts, not my intelligence. they're all such intelligent men, from sf writers to hayek to what have you. the problem is that they're not smart.
1863582;1539889171;mircea_popescu;certainly not smart enough to be read.
1863583;1539889176;Mocky;mircea_popescu, d. kyon is Diogenes?
1863584;1539889180;mircea_popescu;yes.
1863585;1539889220;asciilifeform;chinese examtaker , or the '2030' people mircea_popescu linked, resemble 'fast comp but without rng'
1863586;1539889236;asciilifeform;i.e. unable to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-12#1861117
1863587;1539889236;a111;Logged on 2018-10-12 17:34 asciilifeform: in related lulz, and iirc we had a thread ( tho can't seem to unearth it ), urandom is sufficiently sad that when asciilifeform was running genetic algos / monte carlo / etc. crapolade , yrs ago, from it... would regularly fail to converge
1863588;1539889239;mircea_popescu;and yet -- very intelligent by any test.
1863589;1539889255;asciilifeform;aside from the test where you actually gotta explore the solution space to converge on solution, lol
1863590;1539889263;mircea_popescu;dumb as fucking rocks also, and i would like to introduce mission street in sf into the record as exhibit fucktards.
1863591;1539889271;asciilifeform;wassat?
1863592;1539889284;mircea_popescu;sorta like ny broadway or hollywood blvd.
1863593;1539889291;mircea_popescu;the ground zero of some kind of intelligence.
1863594;1539889336;asciilifeform;as i understand, it's a temple, they had'em in 3000 bc just the same, heathens pray to their peculiar gods
1863595;1539889352;mircea_popescu;right ? but the priests were ~intelligent~.
1863596;1539889456;asciilifeform;it isn't clear to me that priest gotta be esp. intelligent by any measure, any more than today's proverbial dmv clerk
1863597;1539889470;mircea_popescu;but as a factual matter, are.
1863598;1539889637;BingoBoingo;Or were
1863599;1539889687;mircea_popescu;the issue with priesthood is that it offers perpetual masturbatory toys for the non-smart irrespective of their "intelligence" as irrespective of their height.
1863600;1539889718;mircea_popescu;"does this dildo work on blondes as well as brunettes ?" "well... it works on redheads best, but it'll do the oooh-aaah job for anyone."
1863601;1539893528;asciilifeform;in other minor noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-16#1863154 << uncrated it last night, and it's a success , a+++ sunlight display
1863602;1539893528;a111;Logged on 2018-10-16 00:19 asciilifeform will try again with 'samsung n150' box, with sadder kbd, but same chipset, and reportedly fitting
1863603;1539893563;asciilifeform;sadly the box it ended up going in, is nuffin to write home about ( slightly slower than the goldstandard x60, and smaller, and sad kbd ) but it worx as described
1863604;1539893576;asciilifeform;unfortunately photo dun really do it justice, gotta be seen with eyes to be believed
1863605;1539893626;asciilifeform;( contrary to the 'broken telephone game' on the net, the thing ~does~ show colour under sunlight, if backlight is set to minimum. if to 0 : b&w and ultralowpower ( whole day battery, in theory ) )
1863606;1539893631;asciilifeform;phf ^
1863607;1539893699;asciilifeform;swapping the crystal in place of the lappy's orig, takes about 1hr
1863608;1539893770;asciilifeform;total cost of proj is about 2benjie (~1 for sad lappy (used), ~1 for crystal (new/oldstock/china) )
1863609;1539893787;asciilifeform;mass, ~1kg
1863610;1539893799;asciilifeform;this will be a cuntoo box, when i get around to redisking it
1863611;1539893847;asciilifeform;if anybody else wants one, get'em while they're still around.
1863612;1539893863;asciilifeform;i dun expect those chinese crates are bottomless.
1863613;1539893981;asciilifeform;the only tool req'd : 1) ordinary philips driver 2) spudger 3) pair of hands
1863614;1539894058;*;asciilifeform prolly will pick up a spare or 2, so as not to end up with 'rms longsoon' irreplaceable artifact
1863615;1539894174;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: How rebuildable is the battery pack on that thing?
1863616;1539894424;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: same as any other, theoretically if you have battery welder and cells, can rebuild
1863617;1539894438;asciilifeform;problem is getting nonchinese cells, just as with others
1863618;1539894445;*;asciilifeform will get to it eventually
1863619;1539894448;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1863620;1539900176;mircea_popescu;"I packed the above code as a .vpatch on top of the previous genesis .vpatch mainly for keeping my original promise of showing this being built as it is with detours and corrections on the way. Otherwise this could equally well be a genesis in itself given how radically it changes pretty much everything in there. Nevertheless, at least for now - meaning until a final version is achieved and a regrind makes perhaps sense - I'l
1863621;1539900176;mircea_popescu;l keep growing the smg_comms tree." << this, ftr, eminently ideal republican code development process.
1863622;1539900199;mircea_popescu;nevermind teh purpose of "how it'll eventually look", the future can be trusted to take care of itself, ESPECIALLY if you can be trusted to take care of present.
1863623;1539902853;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reminds me, i prolly oughta genesis 'horsecocks' aka mmap-for-ada
1863624;1539902866;mircea_popescu;can't see why not.
1863625;1539902877;asciilifeform;i expect e.g. diana_coman will eventually need mmap
1863626;1539902893;mircea_popescu;i was thinking, has major chances of being pulled as a patch into eulora-something.
1863627;1539902907;asciilifeform;( bonus, it has no .c component, builds strictly gnatistically , tho it imports several unixisms as funct calls )
1863628;1539902942;mircea_popescu;kinda funny how we're "slowly" (ie, 10x faster) recreating everything bsd was pretending to be about, huh.
1863629;1539902988;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the mmap thing is major labour-saving item, lets you fughet about db etc, you define the data structure you want and it gets persisted to disk / loaded as-needed into ram, transparently to proggy
1863630;1539902991;mircea_popescu;anyway -- in this particular case it makes sense to genesis item so downstream can actually invite you to patch on their tree
1863631;1539902997;mircea_popescu;illustrating a very interesting sorta backflow
1863632;1539903029;mircea_popescu;(better than "i'll wait to patch it in directly at  the right time" because the "right time" mioght never come seeing how the people in question don't know what you're patching)
1863633;1539903110;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not only this, but if folx build on the right slab, they can get 9000x less complex proggy in the end
1863634;1539903123;mircea_popescu;yup
1863635;1539903134;mircea_popescu;i think it's already evident this, in the serialization discussion
1863636;1539903184;asciilifeform;aha. it's the basic labour of writing sane proggy -- tossing out the duct tape & replacing with sumthing that actually worx
1863637;1539903316;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, while mircea_popescu is awake -- mircea_popescu do you still have a 'mpb' noad running on public net ? would like to try my exerciser on one
1863638;1539903350;mircea_popescu;i dunno right off lol
1863639;1539903376;asciilifeform;not urgent or anyffing
1863640;1539903695;asciilifeform;already turned up a buncha oddities re noades -- for instance, just about errybody not-trb still sends out gavinalert (with 'key compromised!' message. wai -- i have nfi )
1863641;1539903737;asciilifeform;if you set your hello-version to 99999, they stop, if <=70001 -- they spam it
1863642;1539903866;asciilifeform;aaaand some alarmingly large % of the supposed-nodes, can't or won't come up with old blox on demand..
1863643;1539903875;BingoBoingo;AHA, this and not "be counted by derps" iirc was the reasons the knob got cranked to 99999 and left there.
1863644;1539903914;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the funny bit is that 99999 turns off gavinalertism but turns on heathen cmd's
1863645;1539903922;asciilifeform;so these still get malleus'd
1863646;1539903963;asciilifeform;( and really oughta be properly dropped, per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862873 bug they presently suck oxygen uselessly )
1863647;1539903963;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 15:44 asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, mod6 et al : loox like trb doesn't remove banned peers from its addr table ! i.e. offers their addrs up to others, as if they were proper noades!! i never noticed this previously, it had to wait to be found empirically. really oughta be fixed, and pretty simple patch.
1863648;1539904018;asciilifeform;by my current estimate ( not fired the full scan yet, when proggy done it'll run continuously and present a phuctoresque www panel ) there are perhaps 100 actual noades on the net
1863649;1539904028;asciilifeform;errybody else is theatre
1863650;1539904078;mircea_popescu;well, on public net at any rate.
1863651;1539904091;asciilifeform;rright, naturally not counting pocket noades
1863652;1539904101;mircea_popescu;because of the exact problems you discuss i'd guess 1/4 or less of nodes are publicly adressable
1863653;1539904103;asciilifeform;( tho funnily those still show up in addr tables )
1863654;1539904118;asciilifeform;lotsa 0.0.0.0:xxxx in'ere
1863655;1539904145;mircea_popescu;but yes, it's painfully obvious the "p2p" nature of bitcoin went straight to nowhere, disabusing naive satoshi notions of "all the world's a huge wikitardia!!!" 1990s wank.
1863656;1539904163;asciilifeform;( re pockets, afaik erry half-serious user has at least 1 pocket noad behind his public one )
1863657;1539904179;mircea_popescu;kinda informs the change of the tenor here, since his http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ declaration a few years ago.
1863658;1539904223;asciilifeform;it's 'p2p' like telco backbone, rather than like 'kazaa', yes
1863659;1539904270;mircea_popescu;rather than like ~cunt~.
1863660;1539904301;asciilifeform;hm?
1863661;1539904303;mircea_popescu;turns out, cunt more of a jewel of engineering than generally thought, yet ~another~ aspect of its normal functioning not reproducible by present technical means.
1863662;1539904317;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ever seen someone with a bag of cunts ?
1863663;1539904335;asciilifeform;can't say i have
1863664;1539904358;asciilifeform;maybe ilsa koch had one ?
1863665;1539904363;mircea_popescu;that's the problem of bitcoin, right, the relay-mining cleavage. something that ~in spite of designatorial intention~ WAS done to bitcoin ; and NOT done to sexuate reproduction.
1863666;1539904374;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i mean fully functional ones.
1863667;1539904397;asciilifeform;then definitely not
1863668;1539904400;mircea_popescu;right ?
1863669;1539904406;asciilifeform;never seen a bag of working arms or legs either
1863670;1539904420;mircea_popescu;right, but cunts are p2p.
1863671;1539904436;mircea_popescu;and i have seen a tyre depot, which for my purposes here counts as "bag of legs"
1863672;1539904617;asciilifeform;but yes, 'allcomers p2p' allows 9000 types of abuses ( if you think about it, the fact that one is able to build a simple mechanism to map out the net, is not actually a win , for that matter ) , noose at 11
1863673;1539904736;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu were to park his merc in johannesburg, orcs might steal the tyres, but not the cunt (can only borrow..)
1863674;1539904818;asciilifeform;( anybody recall the old film where there is 'fast motion' scene of airplane abandoned in some shithole, 'evaporating' part by part ? )
1863675;1539904863;asciilifeform;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ZSR0pfg5Y << found, subj
1863676;1539904894;mircea_popescu;cunt works fine with allcomers p2p!
1863677;1539904920;mircea_popescu;in fact, actually works better, if slightly.
1863678;1539904984;mircea_popescu;(and deals with more tbs of data than any bitcoin node, but that's a story for later sadness.()
1863679;1539905025;asciilifeform;'the worx of man cannot match an ant' etc
1863680;1539905137;mircea_popescu;actually... why not now. so, human genome, 3bn base pairs, about 100GB ; per ejaculation ~500bn copies of this chunk.
1863681;1539905162;mircea_popescu;im sorry, ~500mn, half bn.
1863682;1539905216;asciilifeform;bandwidth, contrary to intuition, isn't where 'worx of man' necessarily fall down to the ant, but rather http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687613
1863683;1539905216;a111;Logged on 2017-07-20 19:47 asciilifeform: ( this is called 'brittleness' by aficionados of 'meat-like machinery' )
1863684;1539905218;mircea_popescu;dealing with a 500`000`000 copies (more or less exact) of the same 100GB file within half an hour... that's more than any node does ; and more than the collective of nodes did since the beginning of the ocin.
1863685;1539905229;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha.
1863686;1539905237;asciilifeform;nobody's ever built anyffin with even close to the noise tolerance of meat.
1863687;1539905238;mircea_popescu;"even the easy tasks are too hard for you "
1863688;1539905277;asciilifeform;my quite humble pipe here moves 100G in half hr . that aint the hard part.
1863689;1539905299;mircea_popescu;half bn copies of a 100G each!
1863690;1539905307;mircea_popescu;DIFFERENT. SLIGHTLY>
1863691;1539905310;mircea_popescu;nightmare situation.
1863692;1539905338;asciilifeform;ordinary b&w photo lab can bake 100 copies of '100GB ea' in coupla sec
1863693;1539905351;mircea_popescu;but not pick the ones with least gray pixels.
1863694;1539905377;asciilifeform;iirc we had a photo-computation thread even
1863695;1539905385;asciilifeform;pretty green field, at least publicly
1863696;1539905386;mircea_popescu;anyway. it's funny to me that the blockchain's approximately in the size range of the genome.
1863697;1539905403;mircea_popescu;seems there's a MINIMAL complexity "For anything interesting", and we're finally just now getting togethert the tools to work with it.
1863698;1539905420;mircea_popescu;table stakes, finally we're getting there.
1863699;1539905722;*;asciilifeform spent some yrs involved in 'here's 100GB of genome, nao answer an interesting q about it' racket, it was depressing, even with custom iron most of the practically useful q's are unanswerable, there's fundamental algo problems in the way
1863700;1539905799;asciilifeform;the only ~working model of meat, remains... meat
1863701;1539905917;asciilifeform;non-vonneumann machine potentially changes this, but $farm went broke before asciilifeform was able to fill 42U cabinet with fpga..
1863702;1539906072;asciilifeform;current-day 'supercomp' biz is a sad cargo cult, ~errybody's building buckets fulla intelade rubbish.
1863703;1539906095;asciilifeform;( s. cray spins like turbine in his coffin )
1863704;1539906114;asciilifeform;if anybody's doing sumthing actually constructive, it's a well-kept seekrit
1863705;1539906333;asciilifeform;grr can't find thread, so at risk of repeat : there is a legend, where some nao long-dead sage ( ulam ? ) was in a room where the lesser mortals idly fucked around with q 'how to short bundle of sticks by length' fastest. d00d silently picked up the bundle of sticks and pounded them on table ends-down and then lowered palm onto the top, picking up longest with each move
1863706;1539906343;asciilifeform;O(N).
1863707;1539906383;asciilifeform;*sort
1863708;1539906474;asciilifeform;nobody in his right mind would try to empty swimming pool with eye dropper, but for some reason the computin' folx are still doing it.
1863709;1539906545;asciilifeform;'but it's a really fast eye dropper!' -- nope, not really so fast
1863710;1539906728;asciilifeform;meanwhile, today in castles, http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2018-10-18#443422
1863711;1539906788;mircea_popescu;aha!
1863712;1539906943;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque i was learning from db dark arts, in yer http://btcbase.org/patches/logbot-genesis#L186 , and wondered re the orig logic behind the uuid-ossp / gen_random_uuid() item ( vs the ordinary 'serial' ), plox to enlighten asciilifeform
1863713;1539906952;asciilifeform;urgh, bot dead again..
1863714;1539906974;mircea_popescu;growing nicely!
1863715;1539907467;lobbes;asciilifeform: bot back. sry bout that
1863716;1539908068;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: since you asked earlier -- battery is a 'aa-pb2vc6b' , 48 watt-hour, 6 cylindrical cells, dead-likely the usual #18650 thing
1863717;1539908097;asciilifeform;( thing was made before all the shitlappy makers switched to custom/ungettable shaped prismatics )
1863718;1539908151;asciilifeform;https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1fwgtPpXXXXaJXXXXq6xXFXXXS/laptop-battery-cell-25R-Samsung-inr18650-25r.jpg << example of subj
1863719;1539908339;hanbot;!!invoice BingoBoingo .076 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859237
1863720;1539908339;a111;Logged on 2018-10-07 19:04 BingoBoingo: !Qbid 367 76M
1863721;1539908345;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZzqIM/?raw=true
1863722;1539908351;asciilifeform;at one time asciilifeform wondered why no lappy maker ever included simply a compartment with sprints, like electronic boxen in the good old days, where you could stuff in yer own when the old ones give out. then realized the obv answer why.
1863723;1539908358;asciilifeform;*springs grr
1863724;1539908369;hanbot;!!v 02C28B4F076BBCD927178214C8E57CAE29F0A33677379920E929BE807CDC4F55
1863725;1539908374;deedbot;Invoiced BingoBoingo .076 << http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859237
1863726;1539908398;asciilifeform;( at one time i did have an ancient 'nokia' that had precisely this battery system, so there's no practical reason why impossible . it's purely lock-in crapola that prevents. )
1863727;1539908608;BingoBoingo;!!v EFB5290B2A8B8C30CCBDF9558B4D63D4D30AD51B467C6F3319E1471E4F7A5FCF
1863728;1539908612;deedbot;BingoBoingo paid hanbot invoice 1
1863729;1539908619;BingoBoingo;Thank you hanbot
1863730;1539908827;mircea_popescu;custom batteries "are cooler".
1863731;1539908847;mircea_popescu;sold to the same crowd of malignant morons that buys "electric cars" and "credit cards everywhere" and "electronic locks" and so on.
1863732;1539909019;asciilifeform;sold, since ~late'90s, to errybody, the smallest nontrivial piece of gear i have here that takes standard battery (not counting flashlights etc) is 100kg ups.
1863733;1539909606;asciilifeform;wb amberglint
1863734;1539909609;amberglint;Hello
1863735;1539909619;asciilifeform;so, what was it you found
1863736;1539909633;amberglint;NS does work, but you need a simple workaround to get around the Xlib error: switch your X server to 8bpp
1863737;1539909640;amberglint;after you do that, there's another gotcha - it needs a license from Symbolics to run, like Macsyma
1863738;1539909657;asciilifeform;sooo didja disasm it and make a pill, or what
1863739;1539909665;amberglint;thankfully someone shared the crack with me, which I pasted here: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/91Gll/?raw=true
1863740;1539909692;asciilifeform;nifty
1863741;1539909702;amberglint;I also have the crack for Macsyma if you want
1863742;1539909709;asciilifeform;post it, why not
1863743;1539909716;asciilifeform;sadly i dun have anything to load in ns
1863744;1539909718;amberglint;ok, give me a minute
1863745;1539909751;asciilifeform;what i wanted re ns, is a) the 'ivory' src b) src for ns itself, to pillage the algos
1863746;1539909814;amberglint;here's the crack for Macsyma: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TRpId/?raw=true
1863747;1539909828;asciilifeform;i suppose ns pill will come in handy if anybody ever unearths the ivory src
1863748;1539909874;amberglint;I remember NS referencing the documentation, but it seems to be missing in the distribution everyone has
1863749;1539909948;asciilifeform;( for non-bolixologists in the audience : 'ns' was the spiffy vlsi tool they used to bake their ic's, logic was specified as a lisp proggy of sorts and compiled into an item that could be taken to vlsi plant )
1863750;1539910022;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1772209 << prev thread re subj
1863751;1539910022;a111;Logged on 2018-01-17 22:45 amberglint: btw, one of Ivory and NS designers, Neil Weste, wrote his own schoolbook: http://pages.hmc.edu/harris/cmosvlsi/4e/index.html
1863752;1539910079;asciilifeform;( & http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1738171 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631479 , possibly elsewhere )
1863753;1539910079;a111;Logged on 2017-11-14 20:10 asciilifeform: apeloyee: the other thing to consider, is that the preserved bolix material has ~unspeakably~ rich ( and quite high snr ) collection of artifacts, perhaps 1000 asciilifeform-years of work. take the ns vlsi compiler alone. i have the binaries, but not the src. and ~someone~ will have to make a sane (i.e. fully lispified and zero-externals) vlsitron.
1863754;1539910079;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 03:10 asciilifeform: 1) the NS source for the last 'ivory'.
1863755;1539910189;amberglint;Peter Paine has a huge pile of Symbolics tapes which he jealously guards from other bolixologists, I wonder if it has the source of Ivory
1863756;1539910201;asciilifeform;amberglint: it is interesting that somebody actually bothered to sit down and make a pill for ns. suggests that somebody, somewhere, has what to read in it..
1863757;1539910242;asciilifeform;amberglint: the psychology of the 'jealous guards' people is still a riddle to me
1863758;1539910284;asciilifeform;it's almost as if the gnomes from norse mythology are real
1863759;1539910300;asciilifeform;'i'ma sit on this gold' 'why' 'because i am gnome'
1863760;1539910355;amberglint;whoever made that pill wasn't eager to make it public, I got it in a roundabout way
1863761;1539910461;asciilifeform;it's funny , these people. e.g. coupla weeks after i posted my pill for http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1667 , that i had to make with own hands , a finn shows up, 'i have one too' 'why didntcha post' '...'
1863762;1539910505;amberglint;yeah, it's the same deal, I guess some people are afraid of lawsuits from a dead company
1863763;1539910534;asciilifeform;or, earlier, thrd, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624994
1863764;1539910534;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 00:21 asciilifeform: for instance, i struggled to find the genera source, and then YEARS later i found out that 'the whisperers' have been quietly passing it around
1863765;1539910567;asciilifeform;amberglint: i dun buy this excuse; for the pathological coward, there's 9000 ways to post a pill anon
1863766;1539910703;asciilifeform;to avoid replaying old thread, will simply link my http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624999 astonishment
1863767;1539910703;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 00:23 asciilifeform: yer more afraid of old ~defunct corp with 60k (look it up, usaspending.gov) than of riaa, mpaa, cia ?
1863768;1539910838;asciilifeform;there's scarcely a corpse in the graveyard deader than bolix -- the fucking ~trademark~ lapsed
1863769;1539910855;asciilifeform;old man couldn't be bothered, apparently, to fork out 50bux for renew
1863770;1539910874;asciilifeform;he even sold his .com domain to spammers.
1863771;1539910896;amberglint;he's still selling MacIvory boxes
1863772;1539910943;asciilifeform;i suspect he buys'em back from tired archaeologists, and resells ad infinitum
1863773;1539910978;asciilifeform;notbad biznis model , when all you want to do is pay electric bill on cramped old house in virginistan
1863774;1539911075;asciilifeform;amberglint: when i went to his house 10y ago, offered to him to make fpga-ized 'ivory' , 'pro bono', if he'd only cough up with what. answr was approx 'can't , unless my master permits, and he wouldn't'
1863775;1539911091;asciilifeform;fucking gnomes.
1863776;1539911101;amberglint;yeah, we talked about his master
1863777;1539911153;asciilifeform;i have nfi what is the psychology , is it like the nazi gold, 'we'll build a 4th reich and will need it' or how.
1863778;1539911302;amberglint;I can't remember, did you try to talk to Mallery directly?
1863779;1539911319;amberglint;I wonder what answer he'd come up with
1863780;1539911326;asciilifeform;amberglint: i wrote to him, incl. once from .mil and 100% paying bolix customer (yes), 0 answer
1863781;1539911350;asciilifeform;from kalman reti also same, and 0 answ
1863782;1539911355;amberglint;to his MIT address?
1863783;1539911357;asciilifeform;yes
1863784;1539911372;asciilifeform;and repeatedly.
1863785;1539911381;asciilifeform;'silent like partizan'
1863786;1539911387;amberglint;I thought so
1863787;1539911398;mircea_popescu;!!key amberglint
1863788;1539911399;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/A7E708351AF14BB5C8B48DA323264C245A4563B8.asc
1863789;1539911414;mircea_popescu;!!rate amberglint 1 macsyma crack
1863790;1539911417;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BbgJj/?raw=true
1863791;1539911438;asciilifeform;oh yes
1863792;1539911454;asciilifeform;!!rate amberglint 2 bolix pillage / ns pill
1863793;1539911456;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oSVo3/?raw=true
1863794;1539911481;asciilifeform;!!v FFB0F8045885D02C11C560672DF41957A1E59E0D7AD2FD32071F8922416F3959
1863795;1539911481;deedbot;asciilifeform updated rating of amberglint from 1 to 2 << bolix pillage / ns pill
1863796;1539911592;asciilifeform;amberglint: think -- bolix bankrupt (for 2nd, and final time) ~20 yrs ago now. still no '4th reich'...
1863797;1539911636;amberglint;what's '4th reich' even supposed to be?
1863798;1539911651;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863777 <<
1863799;1539911651;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 01:05 asciilifeform: i have nfi what is the psychology , is it like the nazi gold, 'we'll build a 4th reich and will need it' or how.
1863800;1539911666;asciilifeform;i.e. whatever mallery is holding out for
1863801;1539911704;amberglint;he'll just become the next Andrew Topping, or whoever was the previous owner
1863802;1539911716;mircea_popescu;amberglint http://trilema.com/2013/youre-gonna-have-to-learn-that-variety-speak/ for the theory ; http://trilema.com/republican-thesaurus/ a primer for the practice. in short, republic's created a bunch of symbolic shorthands for things.
1863803;1539911739;asciilifeform;btw, https://www.usaspending.gov/#/recipient/c433a88e-1dfd-759b-376c-7a0d6667921b-P << spoiler : $ 0 since '15
1863804;1539911745;mircea_popescu;4th reich specifically being the next/current socialist state
1863805;1539911766;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you know the fellow ? beyond "russian!" ?
1863806;1539911786;amberglint;mircea_popescu: thank you, I'll read (or re-read) that
1863807;1539911801;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nope, tho possibly phf might , he appeared during prev bolix/ivory thread
1863808;1539911812;amberglint;I don't think phf knows me
1863809;1539911827;asciilifeform;phf: out of curiosity, how didja find
1863810;1539911831;asciilifeform;err, amberglint
1863811;1539911835;asciilifeform;amberglint: how didja find
1863812;1539911885;amberglint;the crack? I talked to some people in #bolix and eventually got it
1863813;1539911892;asciilifeform;no, i meant, how found us
1863814;1539911934;amberglint;I found your blog, and in there I found the references to this place
1863815;1539911940;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik amberglint is the 1st digger to actually share , normally bolix folx avoid asciilifeform like the plague, as detailed in old thrds, for whatever psychopathological reasons
1863816;1539911954;asciilifeform;amberglint: aah ok
1863817;1539911986;mircea_popescu;maybe you used to be too young.
1863818;1539912011;mircea_popescu;!#born amberglint
1863819;1539912011;a111;2018-01-17 <amberglint> !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tpxEH/?raw=true >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-17#1772162
1863820;1539912110;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863774 << could have easily organised a "break-in", stuff coulda been out of there before anyone even "discovered" and reported it.
1863821;1539912110;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 01:04 asciilifeform: amberglint: when i went to his house 10y ago, offered to him to make fpga-ized 'ivory' , 'pro bono', if he'd only cough up with what. answr was approx 'can't , unless my master permits, and he wouldn't'
1863822;1539912137;mircea_popescu;but -- gotta want, before can can. much like talking to girls -- yes, could. but gotta want to before can can.
1863823;1539912148;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: d00d did spill that he dun keep 'crown jewels' in his house.
1863824;1539912154;mircea_popescu;also, english is a piece of shit. wtf "can can", get better modals!
1863825;1539912186;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fortunately errybody present speaks human langs, and knows that mircea_popescu was trying to say 'can can'
1863826;1539912190;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform could've, for the same money. "for cleanning".
1863827;1539912201;asciilifeform;lol
1863828;1539912245;mircea_popescu;it's not just "credit cards" or "websites" or w/e else specific pwned-daily aspect of the female state that's fulla holes moreso than aerogel.
1863829;1539912251;mircea_popescu;EVERYTHING they do is.
1863830;1539912269;mircea_popescu;nobody's ever getting fired for giving away the expensive company car to a guy dressed in a red coat. "i thought he was the parking vallet".
1863831;1539912270;mircea_popescu;hurr.
1863832;1539912325;mircea_popescu;"i plugged this stick i found in the parking lot into your computer" / "i gave some guy an all-doors pass cuz he was wearing gray overalls with some name i don't remember on the back" etcetera.
1863833;1539912325;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: by my reckoning, the actually valuable and not-yet-leaked stuff, is in 'indiana jones' warehouse, behind http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-10#1158785 , rather than on swiss cheese php www etc
1863834;1539912325;a111;Logged on 2015-06-10 03:40 asciilifeform: 'watchman may not know what is behind the door he is guarding; if he knew - would steal it himself' (tm) (r) (sov army)
1863835;1539912343;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform now if only such a thing existed irl.
1863836;1539912354;mircea_popescu;but i suspect if aliens came looking for one it'd be in your house.
1863837;1539912355;asciilifeform;by all indications seems to, bolix lives there.
1863838;1539912368;mircea_popescu;aaanyways.
1863839;1539912390;asciilifeform;( tho i cannot rule out hypothesis that it lives in same place as apollo rocket, i.e. /dev/null, was lost )
1863840;1539912439;asciilifeform;/dev/null is pretty cheap and effective device for keeping seekritz.
1863841;1539912662;asciilifeform;nao, on other hand, the ~orig~ bolix, leaked like sieve, yes, regularly we hear about some old fart sitting on buncha tapes he picked up from dumpster, but always same element in story, he sits like tolkien's gorlum, 'my precious!', on the goods
1863842;1539912705;asciilifeform;maybe in 100 tapes , 1 or 2 still readable. whoknows.
1863843;1539912733;amberglint;I was about to ask phf about his Ivory-related efforts, but checked the logs again just now and found that asciilifeform already did it two days ago, which I overlooked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-15#1862616
1863844;1539912733;a111;Logged on 2018-10-15 02:44 phf: asciilifeform: i actually forgot! i'm swamped right now, but can you remind me again in about two weeks, i have a thing for you from the dig that will help with the little piece of silicon you have
1863845;1539912736;asciilifeform;( in asciilifeform's practice, tape keeps for ~maybe~ 10y, and that's in hermetic container... )
1863846;1539912758;amberglint;err, four days
1863847;1539912763;mircea_popescu;afaik this is a botomless pit, trying to pay people to eg imagine ivories/bolixen etc is less roi than buying girls new stockings.
1863848;1539912774;mircea_popescu;logs are littered with the attempts.
1863849;1539912787;asciilifeform;amberglint: iirc he found pinouts. not crown jewels, tho could be of use in ~very slowly~ getting sumthing useful from the 2 'ivory' crystals i traded a 3620 for
1863850;1539912841;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik nobody's even picked up enuff frags with which to make even half of a serious attempt, at that
1863851;1539912883;asciilifeform;right nao there's a d00d with 2 crystals; and another d00d with maybe-pinouts; and a gorlum somewhere with maybe-tapes; etc
1863852;1539912925;asciilifeform;and a buncha http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693150 tards with working (while caps last..) boxes but 0 brain
1863853;1539912925;a111;Logged on 2017-08-03 03:38 asciilifeform: https://symbolics.lisp.engineer/goals << in other lulz.
1863854;1539912971;asciilifeform;and of course there is a mircea_popescu to laugh, cuz it's pretty laughable state of affairs
1863855;1539912978;mircea_popescu;and some ru outfit that was going to acid-peel and image chips, and a museum dork thart was going to rent me time on one of his boxes but then didn't nor felt any need to explain why he's stupid, and some other dork gonna build himself a vent, and so on and so forth.
1863856;1539912992;asciilifeform;vent d00d linked aha
1863857;1539913029;amberglint;the people who have the biggest stash of Ivory hardware are busy writing their own emulator of the older 3600 machines right now, the last time I checked
1863858;1539913033;asciilifeform;fwiw i did ( could unearth thread , but who wants, can find ) get quote from chinese, they will happily photograph crystal for ~toyota's worth
1863859;1539913046;asciilifeform;amberglint: i.e. they're carefully avoiding risk of doing anything useful
1863860;1539913243;mircea_popescu;amberglint i have my doubts they're doing any such thing.
1863861;1539913255;mircea_popescu;people with the biggest beer mugs are similarly busy discussing things about the game on tv.
1863862;1539913277;amberglint;well, one of them wrote a PERQ emulator
1863863;1539913292;asciilifeform;zeptobars seems pretty dead; their site is up, but pretty sure that all of the pics therein, were there last yr
1863864;1539913330;asciilifeform;amberglint: http://toastytech.com/guis/pemu.html ?
1863865;1539913340;amberglint;asciilifeform: this one https://github.com/jdersch/PERQemu
1863866;1539913365;amberglint;yeah, it's the same one
1863867;1539913385;asciilifeform;PERQSystem.cs << lol!!!
1863868;1539913388;asciilifeform;srsly?!
1863869;1539913405;asciilifeform;'PERQemu is written in C# under the .NET Framework 2.0.  The source code is now available on GitHub...' << blergh
1863870;1539913501;asciilifeform;http://toastytech.com/guis/perq.html << notbad box, incidentally, imho
1863871;1539913516;asciilifeform;beats the shit out of what i'm sitting in front of, in 9000 ways
1863872;1539913725;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is theoretically possible to write 3600 emulator without much brain work, the instr set is (mostly) described in their 600 (!) page patent. but there's very little to be gained from doing so, the 3600 arch is before they cleaned all of the mit shit-hackolade out of the thing, it has million idjit warts inherited from when the thing was a refrigerator-sized dumpster of 74xxx discretes
1863873;1539913792;asciilifeform;( weighed, roughly, what toyota weighs )
1863874;1539913802;mircea_popescu;no, i know.
1863875;1539913822;mircea_popescu;part of why i'm so "eh, tell it to the hand" about the whole "they're working" angle. no, they aren't.
1863876;1539913923;asciilifeform;maybe in another 10yr they cough up 3600 emulator. in c#. that maybe runs for 5+min without crash.
1863877;1539913927;asciilifeform;but i'ma be surprised.
1863878;1539913939;mircea_popescu;hopefully it's deployed as a ruby gem via kubinetes.
1863879;1539913963;mircea_popescu;old famous tech deserves nothing less
1863880;1539913973;mircea_popescu;provided of course "pid eins" is somehow involved also.
1863881;1539913975;asciilifeform;naa lol, it'll be 'starteam', they're microshit shop, see.
1863882;1539913985;BingoBoingo;Well it can probably run indefinitely displaying the output of hello.world
1863883;1539914018;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am contacting you from the future, a time when "microsoft" "bought" whatever.
1863884;1539914046;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hey, coke will merge with pepsi, lion with lamb, such it was written in sybiline prophecy or wherever.
1863885;1539914077;mircea_popescu;teste david & sybilla.
1863886;1539914091;asciilifeform;aha!
1863887;1539914296;asciilifeform;but yes, i'm not esp surprised that the derps 'working' on 3600. given as 1) 'ivory' needs ~20-50 k $ in either chinese microscopist, or nixon's burglars , take yer pick 2) 3600 is massive forest of idjit hackolade, which these people seem to ~like~, the way scarab luvvs shit
1863888;1539914332;asciilifeform;beetle rolls, rolls his shit.
1863889;1539914360;mircea_popescu;50k is so not the problem here.
1863890;1539914367;asciilifeform;~a~ problem
1863891;1539914374;asciilifeform;ground floor.
1863892;1539914381;mircea_popescu;not much of one -- a bunch of rando camhos got ~same to write on their tits.
1863893;1539914392;mircea_popescu;but unlike the drone bois -- the girls DO SOMETHING.
1863894;1539914439;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/eu-and-obsolete-wwii-era-pantsuit-ngo-call-for-crackdown-on-programs-easing-voluntary-migration-of-high-value-immigrants/ << Qntra - EU And Obsolete WWII Era Pantsuit NGO Call For Crackdown On Programs Easing Voluntary Migration Of High Value Immigrants
1863895;1539914474;mircea_popescu;ahahaha. let me guess, "divisive, inequalitarian and unfare" ?
1863896;1539914502;asciilifeform;ohnoez! folx gettin' passports without having ever fucked a goat in the name of prophet!
1863897;1539914599;asciilifeform;but yes usg is squeezing necks, too many zeks escaping, even with the current ~$1m price tag
1863898;1539914600;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: AHA, unfair that terrorists can "invest" for passport, unfair competition for Merkel's North African flotilla
1863899;1539914642;asciilifeform;man with 2+ passports is already escapee, republikflucht, ohnoez
1863900;1539914679;mircea_popescu;heh
1863901;1539914776;mircea_popescu;the very verbiafge, you know ? "crackdown" ? as fucking if what, the pantsuit isn't a party favour, passed around for anal freely ?
1863902;1539914796;mircea_popescu;"crackdown" comes from the same mental universe as "pantsuit has always last word -- and it is yes sir".
1863903;1539914812;asciilifeform;funnily enuff , last time asciilifeform went to dig, turned up people who claim to conjure up 'ro ancestor' for $toyota, and bake legit passport; but i'ma believe it when i see it and as far as can throw it ( plus they only work on ukrs, which is imho a dead giveaway of spamola )
1863904;1539914857;asciilifeform;lemon market.
1863905;1539914904;asciilifeform;( think, if jailbreak were 'pay $toyota', usa would empty overnight )
1863906;1539914915;mircea_popescu;not at all.
1863907;1539914920;mircea_popescu;it's less than that, but morons.
1863908;1539915015;asciilifeform;i guess 'less than that' if yer a gurl and mircea_popescu likes yer bust, or how else.
1863909;1539915039;asciilifeform;if you're an old tortoise, it's $mil.
1863910;1539915094;mircea_popescu;mocky is doing ok on toyota so far.
1863911;1539915097;asciilifeform;( the q of where tortoise to go, so as not straight to soup, is ~separate~ q )
1863912;1539915113;asciilifeform;mocky not properly speaking escaped, yet, only begun to dig tunnel.
1863913;1539915164;mircea_popescu;not ran out of funds yet either.
1863914;1539915178;asciilifeform;i'd hope that not, he's what, 2wks in
1863915;1539915455;BingoBoingo;I have to say from Mocky's pics of Qatar so far I am impressed by the manner in which they manage to hide the electric wires. Down here they just... can't
1863916;1539915488;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: easier to bury wires when yer entire grid is the size of ~akron, ohio
1863917;1539915499;asciilifeform;straight from plant to street, maybe 10km
1863918;1539915577;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: from map, qatar is an akron inside a new jersey's worth of f. herbert's planet arrakis
1863919;1539915599;BingoBoingo;I'm not sure I trust the Uruguayos to completely hide the wires considering how many lines have left scorch marks along their runs
1863920;1539915635;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ~all of washingtonistan, outside the walls of the city proper, is like that
1863921;1539915643;asciilifeform;they fall down regularly, etc
1863922;1539915681;asciilifeform;and when they fall, they take yer net pipe with'em . it's almost a wonder , imho, that they haven't yet hung up the water and gas lines on poles also..
1863923;1539915695;asciilifeform;( they ~could~ ! recall, they use flexible hose nao, to pinch pennies )
1863924;1539915725;BingoBoingo;Oh no, I am talking about the runs where the wires are centimeters from exterior wall of occupied structure. They don't fall until they've completely finished cooking
1863925;1539915769;asciilifeform;eh they're against exterior wall of ~erry house here. but fortunately for the washingtonistani, cardboard aint conductive..
1863926;1539915839;BingoBoingo;I mean the whole run of the bundle is centimeters from the face of every building for the entire block's run
1863927;1539915892;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: in ro i saw gas pipe running along ~exterior~ walls, errywhere, forming little archways to cross alleys, for km after km
1863928;1539915897;asciilifeform;and wondered why this is not in usa yet
1863929;1539915902;asciilifeform;it seems fitting, for it to be in usa.
1863930;1539915917;BingoBoingo;I don't recall if you saw any active sparkers during your trip here.
1863931;1539915923;asciilifeform;perhaps this way they'd actually plug leaks
1863932;1539915958;asciilifeform;there's 3-4 leaks just within 5km of where i'm sitting, and plenty of folx reported to wash. gas, and guess, fixed ? (spoiler : no)
1863933;1539915973;BingoBoingo;Ah
1863934;1539915974;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: no sparkers
1863935;1539916040;asciilifeform;iirc it is worse in 'flyoveristan', there they have regularly gas boom, takes out 1-2 blocks
1863936;1539916059;asciilifeform;even in nyc nowadays not unheard-of
1863937;1539916067;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863502 << hope you feel better soon BB
1863938;1539916067;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 16:52 BingoBoingo: Verdict is tonsilitis
1863939;1539916138;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863923 << ahahaha this is so epic
1863940;1539916138;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 02:21 asciilifeform: ( they ~could~ ! recall, they use flexible hose nao, to pinch pennies )
1863941;1539916144;mircea_popescu;TUBES, is what the internets need!
1863942;1539916254;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/liO9c << subj.
1863943;1539916298;asciilifeform;they leak, like garden hose.
1863944;1539916313;asciilifeform;( 'but cheap! can buy km spool!' yes )
1863945;1539916334;BingoBoingo;mod6: ty
1863946;1539916340;asciilifeform;no moar welders, pipe fitters, ~same crew lays the hose as lays fiber
1863947;1539916425;asciilifeform;iirc the corrugated-steel hose thing was once thought to be a++ pill for earthquakes & ordinary vibration from traffic, but in actual practice the thing fatigues & holes.
1863948;1539916439;asciilifeform;esp. when made-in-china.
1863949;1539916562;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1863950;1539917454;mats;https://encyclopediageopolitica.com/2018/01/30/bridging-gulfs-qatars-new-alliances
1863951;1539917949;mircea_popescu;"this is how we're going to try and talk around the fact our favourite catamite fucked up yet another province" ?
1863952;1539917961;mircea_popescu;the glories of bahamas blue state, what.
1863953;1539931557;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=58 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/17/2018
1863954;1539935948;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863915 >> no wires in sight anywhere in Doha
1863955;1539935948;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 02:17 BingoBoingo: I have to say from Mocky's pics of Qatar so far I am impressed by the manner in which they manage to hide the electric wires. Down here they just... can't
1863956;1539937181;Mocky;and no houses. commercial buildings and villas. every villa at least 3 stories, flat top, fully wrapped in concrete wall at least 8 feet high, with iron gate for car and iron door
1863957;1539937290;Mocky;8 foot walls for the cheap housing 20 foot for expensive. From what i can tell ~nobody lives outside of such 'fortress'
1863958;1539937421;Mocky;except for skyscrapers and 'artistic buildings' everything is cinder block or brick fully covered in concrete facing.
1863959;1539937536;Mocky;in the 'burbs there are sort of ticky tack housing communities where a couple dozen villas will share one big wall, with guard on duty at the gate.
1863960;1539937759;Mocky;one result is that there isn't a single unsightly yard anywhere, from external pov. from inside pov, it seems like most have a junk pile their back 'yard'
1863961;1539938037;Mocky;not really right to call it 'burbs, it's still in the city just not downtown. Villa is also often commercially, dr office, restaurant, shops: just with extra windows and signage
1863962;1539938639;Mocky;if they built like this in florida, hurricane season would be quite different. but then yeah hardly anyone would be able to afford to live there.
1863963;1539939140;diana_coman;are all houses at the edge of the city or where? not that I'm even sure I see a difference if ~all desert anyway
1863964;1539939191;diana_coman;how's the "qatar week 2" coming along, Mocky ?
1863965;1539940183;Mocky;the downtown area wraps the bay and is maybe 10 blocks deep. I guess you could call this 'a ring'. the rest of the city is basically concentric circles of rings b - f (actual street names) between which are neighborhoods of predominantly residential villas but with huge retail areas interspersed.
1863966;1539940231;Mocky;for example, there are 12 malls in Doha. if you stood on top of one, could see others.
1863967;1539940274;Mocky;so not at the edge of the city only, but almost everywhere
1863968;1539941043;diana_coman;ah, makes some sense; though I gather it's basically living among the malls and sand but I suppose that's what it is
1863969;1539941155;Mocky;actually the only sand is at construction sites. of which there are many. in the city that is. nicely paved streets with nice looking brick sidewalks ~everywhere
1863970;1539941188;Mocky;some massive constructions sites with thousands of laborers
1863971;1539941195;diana_coman;well yes, but that's basically adding concrete/brick to the mix; soil is still what it is
1863972;1539941208;Mocky;week two has been wheel spinning so far like most of week 1. I've had in person conversations with 30+ people in the last week about business and finding a local business sponsor. None of these people are locals, none of them knows a local in business, or even an expat in business, or had any idea what they would do if needed to find.
1863973;1539941242;diana_coman;are they all employed there? or tourists or what?
1863974;1539941254;Mocky;the class system is strong, i've met only bottom 3 classes: guilded cage workers
1863975;1539941275;diana_coman;aha, not very surprising
1863976;1539941359;Mocky;but Qataris don't mix with the help, except the partying 20 somethings that don't want to work (reportedly) and they don't seem to be in their parents wot
1863977;1539941442;Mocky;well not so 'guilded' for the bottom two classes, but at least they can leave now if they want
1863978;1539941517;diana_coman;I must say I don't really have any concrete idea unfortunately re how to go about to find an entrance to qatari wot
1863979;1539941590;Mocky;i went to both coworks. well, "coworks" one is 15th floor of a bank highrise that was empty and expensive. the other is trying to be a startup incubator run by the ministry of communications
1863980;1539941619;diana_coman;oh huh, and no work at the startup incubator?
1863981;1539941634;Mocky;but there's exactly no one here who would use a coworks. you either came here for a job, or your dad can get you a job
1863982;1539941685;Mocky;so the startup incubator is not at all like what i expected
1863983;1539941685;diana_coman;I'd naively expect there would be at least some sort of link possible at the incubator; no events either?
1863984;1539941718;Mocky;no they have events and even people there, but i can't get in, lol
1863985;1539941768;Mocky;you have to get approved, but there's no one actually at the place to approve you, only desk minders. and if approved you have to join the sv track
1863986;1539941778;Mocky;ie year one do this, year 2 do this...
1863987;1539941808;diana_coman;hm, but no way to even attend one of the events i.e. as visitor?
1863988;1539941829;Mocky;the events are: make your slide deck, public speaking workshops, have an app...
1863989;1539941842;diana_coman;the point being to my mind to perhaps meet *there* some people worth meeting, not as much joining the track per se
1863990;1539941862;diana_coman;and at those workshops the audience is only incubator-fellows or what?
1863991;1539941871;Mocky;they did have an event the day i arrived, but i missed it. no more events on the near calendar
1863992;1539941897;diana_coman;ah, pitty; well, hopefully they have more than 1 / year, lol
1863993;1539941937;diana_coman;failing that, I guess 20 somethings partying at least have a local father, for whatever good that might be
1863994;1539941943;Mocky;no sure who shows up, probably mandatory for those in-program
1863995;1539941985;Mocky;i'm about to implement plan b, and talk to the local companies that advertise to help you get your business started and help find you a sponsor
1863996;1539942030;diana_coman;my limited experience with a business incubator in south tyrol was that there were also people from local businesses + local government, but I have no idea to what extent this experience means anything for qatar-incubator
1863997;1539942062;diana_coman;that sounds worth a shot too, certainly
1863998;1539942165;Mocky;one of them claims on their website that certain IT and consulting busniesses don't require a local sponsor. if they actually have experience with these things I expect it to be helpful
1863999;1539942177;Mocky;not sure yet what the cost, or thier criteria
1864000;1539942324;diana_coman;worth finding out at least
1864001;1539942470;Mocky;yup
1864002;1539942523;Mocky;ftr: the bottom class is outside laborers, housed in barracks, transported by busses
1864003;1539942565;diana_coman;sounds pretty much like usual "cattle-class"
1864004;1539942576;Mocky;next to bottom class is cheap workers who aren't permitted to get a drivers license: http://archive.is/Cg7uU
1864005;1539942598;Mocky;but also drivers are in that class, lol
1864006;1539942619;diana_coman;wait what, drivers aren't permitted to get a drivers' license?
1864007;1539942649;Mocky;haha no, they can get license but not escape their 'station'
1864008;1539942672;Mocky;this class works 12 hour days, or shift work and still has no money left over to actually do anything in thier free time
1864009;1539942708;diana_coman;sounds like ol' world drivers/gardeners/maids/cooks/servants in general, no?
1864010;1539942718;Mocky;yup
1864011;1539942742;Mocky;but also includes memebers of the next class up who are of the wrong race
1864012;1539942771;diana_coman;ah well, if not a camel, then can't camel I suppose
1864013;1539942800;Mocky;engineers, techies, skilled jobs who are indian, malay etc.
1864014;1539942907;Mocky;but the upper class of foreign workers has a better deal than they'd get back home. comparable pay, dozen weeks of holiday per year, no taxes, housing provided
1864015;1539942929;Mocky;allowed to drive
1864016;1539942965;Mocky;actually i'm pretty sure everyone is getting a better deal than back home come to think of it
1864017;1539942980;diana_coman;they wouldn't go there otherwise, would they
1864018;1539943008;Mocky;zackly
1864019;1539943024;diana_coman;at the end of the day it's not exactly qatar's fault that it's so shitty at home for those people that they'd rather eat the sand there
1864020;1539943193;Mocky;can't build a pittsburg out of the sand in 35 years without grunts
1864021;1539944189;Mocky;well i guess more like DC or SF but with ~twice the popluation
1864022;1539955522;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863957 << were you able to discover against whom these were built? generally folx dun build castles when no enemy..
1864023;1539955522;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 08:21 Mocky: 8 foot walls for the cheap housing 20 foot for expensive. From what i can tell ~nobody lives outside of such 'fortress'
1864024;1539955601;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07c-kronstadt.html << The Tar Pit - Kronstadt, et alia
1864025;1539955602;Mocky;no, but I mean to ask. 100% ubiquitous here
1864026;1539955846;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864022 -> uhm, I don't think this is true
1864027;1539955846;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 13:25 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863957 << were you able to discover against whom these were built? generally folx dun build castles when no enemy..
1864028;1539955869;diana_coman;or rather: enemy can be defined very loosely (sand! strangers' eyes!)
1864029;1539956076;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the american folx indeed define loosely ; they build wooden fence tho, not ferrocement
1864030;1539956104;asciilifeform;the latter, to me suggests a present enemy
1864031;1539956230;Mocky;one thing i can say is that in the past there were guards hired at many villas to monitor the comings and goings. lover cannot be snuck into parents house easily, and expats had same problem here. "cannot bring girlfriend over... guard"
1864032;1539956270;Mocky;it's not so anymore. now it's more "don't ask dont' tell", though unwed sex is still illegal, and some "family" oriented hotels here will ask for marriage cert
1864033;1539956388;Mocky;evidently they no longer care unless you force them to care. like having a domestic dispute where police are called while living together unwed
1864034;1539956407;Mocky;then ... "trouble"
1864035;1539956465;Mocky;also there's the angle of "good fences make good neighbors". but I'll ask
1864036;1539956467;diana_coman;makes some sense: if you want our help than stick to our rules; if you follow your rules than wtf you want from us
1864037;1539956630;diana_coman;iirc thick walls also -> cooler; though this might make more sense for building rather than garden
1864038;1539956787;asciilifeform;Mocky: from your earlier description , sounds like there are no 'lumpens' in qatar ? ( if so, this is pretty neat )
1864039;1539956851;Mocky;idle layabouts?
1864040;1539956891;asciilifeform;well not just any idlers, but folx not fitting into the structure. bums, pickpockets, the typical bipedal ferals of 'civilization'
1864041;1539956939;asciilifeform;( while on subj, what's the punishment system like ? can attend a good beheading, arm-chopping ? )
1864042;1539957086;Mocky;quite rigid structure, few if any cracks to fall into. Foreigner is tourist, sponsored worker, or businessman. plenty of idle locals, but idle rich in nature, if not substance
1864043;1539957099;Mocky;flogging is still a thing here
1864044;1539957110;asciilifeform;ha, nice
1864045;1539957117;asciilifeform;... public ?
1864046;1539957120;Mocky;but not often employed
1864047;1539957321;Mocky;I don't know about public or not. as part of sharia law it applies only to muslims. they have secular law for non muslims.
1864048;1539957353;Mocky;it's still on the books, 40 lashes for sex outside marriage for a muslim. i think they did it as recently as a few years ago
1864049;1539957364;Mocky;for the man only
1864050;1539957402;Mocky;finger / hand / arm chopping ... not a thing anymore here
1864051;1539957537;Mocky;fewer lashes for theft etc. I know the corporal punishment sentences are handed down, but not always implemented. I don't know the ratio of commuting to jail time / deportation
1864052;1539957629;Mocky;gotta pass a medical exam that says if you'd survive. can keep shirt on. reportedly brusing not bleeding
1864053;1539957630;asciilifeform;makes sense tho, if errybody is either a baron or cheapo gastarbeiter , deportation worx
1864054;1539958911;asciilifeform;meanwhile, upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863739 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863746 >> nao perma-mirrored! >> http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/amberglint_macsyma_pill.txt , http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/bolix/amberglint_ns_pill.txt
1864055;1539958911;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 00:41 amberglint: thankfully someone shared the crack with me, which I pasted here: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/91Gll/?raw=true
1864056;1539958911;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 00:43 amberglint: here's the crack for Macsyma: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TRpId/?raw=true
1864057;1539962364;BingoBoingo;In other news: The Peruana, Gloria, has passed her examinations and will be getting licensed in the profession of vaccination.
1864058;1539962742;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863959 << what you're describing is pretty much where the current world's going. ~same here, ~same in moscow, whatever.
1864059;1539962742;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 08:25 Mocky: in the 'burbs there are sort of ticky tack housing communities where a couple dozen villas will share one big wall, with guard on duty at the gate.
1864060;1539962783;mircea_popescu;it's a sad testament to the age of "enlightment" that we went from 1600s manor house to 1800s brownstone tenement and now to 2000s tallwall. dark ages ftw.
1864061;1539962910;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863966 << jesus flatlands.
1864062;1539962910;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:10 Mocky: for example, there are 12 malls in Doha. if you stood on top of one, could see others.
1864063;1539963003;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863972 << ahahaha. this is pretty rich.
1864064;1539963003;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:26 Mocky: week two has been wheel spinning so far like most of week 1. I've had in person conversations with 30+ people in the last week about business and finding a local business sponsor. None of these people are locals, none of them knows a local in business, or even an expat in business, or had any idea what they would do if needed to find.
1864065;1539963024;mircea_popescu;"so... what do you do ?" "uhm i dunno man... we just live here. it's just a gig, it's not our life. wanna toke ?"
1864066;1539963042;Mocky;pretty much
1864067;1539963077;mircea_popescu;and then when i say there's a lot of supernumerary bodies...
1864068;1539963278;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/tech-press-touting-latest-google-fritz-chip/ << Qntra - Tech "Press" Touting Latest Google Fritz Chip
1864069;1539963294;BingoBoingo;Mocky: I take it there is a beach?
1864070;1539963434;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> the downtown area wraps the bay and is maybe 10 blocks deep. I guess you could call this 'a ring'. the rest of the city is basically concentric circles of rings b - f (actual street names) between which are neighborhoods of predominantly residential villas but with huge retail areas interspersed. << The rings sounds rather like 1900's-1950's Montevideo
1864071;1539963499;mircea_popescu;~same planners im sure.
1864072;1539963574;BingoBoingo;Or same books
1864073;1539963659;Mocky;there are a bunch of beaches. some closes during turtle nesting season. spread around qatar. not sure how many close to Doha, but not like it's a big country
1864074;1539963662;BingoBoingo;But once shopping malls came here, future laying out went less deterministic. Still, very reliable street number system here.
1864075;1539963709;Mocky;the big thing is the party boats in west bay, wooden boats you can seen in like half the public pics of Doha skyline.
1864076;1539963749;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Well, do the locals go there? Take four of the girls you met and lounge around with the for a weekday evening. Good chance that might be how you meet locals.
1864077;1539963757;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864068 << for extra lulz, BingoBoingo : i regged an acct on their www and submitted comment, and (spoiler) 'Submitted and awaiting moderation...' for hrs nao
1864078;1539963757;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 15:34 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/tech-press-touting-latest-google-fritz-chip/ << Qntra - Tech "Press" Touting Latest Google Fritz Chip
1864079;1539963761;Mocky;dozens of party boats that head out for afternoon / evening party / swimming in the bay. thumping music in harbor at night
1864080;1539963814;mircea_popescu;Mocky it's possible they may have a prequal system, if not necessarily what BingoBoingo describes.
1864081;1539963833;mircea_popescu;"must be in right time at right place" sorta deal ; otherwise LOTS of people (and a LOT more than care to admit) spent 60s in california looking for the party.
1864082;1539963853;Mocky;right
1864083;1539963902;BingoBoingo;Anyway, fishing locals by social class is a thing.
1864084;1539964022;BingoBoingo;It seems pretty clear the 20 foot concrete fences are for privacy under the pretext of security
1864085;1539964142;Mocky;if there are local girls who dont' look exactly like this at all times in public, I havent seen: http://www.milenio.com/tendencias/Mujeres-Arabia-Saudita_MILIMA20160119_0193_8.jpg
1864086;1539964217;mircea_popescu;Mocky egypt is same way, except then in private it's topless party w/e.
1864087;1539964228;BingoBoingo;Hence the walls.
1864088;1539964231;mircea_popescu;i'm exaggerating, but anyways. very huge in/outdoors distinction
1864089;1539964281;Mocky;that seems to be the report from housekeepers. bored qataris with nothing to do but shisha, sex and kfc
1864090;1539964287;*;mircea_popescu talking to "party girl" at some point (ukr chick, too) about it : "don't you find it intolerable ?" "well... i think of it as a perpetual costume party in the street."
1864091;1539964319;mircea_popescu;she'd work winters in the (at the time) super-hottest-spot-on-earth, some expensive & pointless UAE resort development.
1864092;1539964394;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863976 << this is very much the one great gain of multi-female household. you don't have to put the spawn in wot. imo worth weight in gold.
1864093;1539964394;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:29 Mocky: but Qataris don't mix with the help, except the partying 20 somethings that don't want to work (reportedly) and they don't seem to be in their parents wot
1864094;1539964451;mircea_popescu;much like EVEN NOW the cost of disease still fails to exceed the benefit from sexuate reproduction, i suspect the same applies there : any other drawbacks a social system may have, the fact it dun force you to put woman's children in your wot is still enough to bring it above water.
1864095;1539964516;*;mircea_popescu has exactly 0 intention of entertaining the "but i am your son!" bs in any case. everyone's someone's son, and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628787
1864096;1539964516;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 14:22 asciilifeform: recall the anecdote re w. shockley's 'genius spermbank' calling feynman ? him: 'whatcha bothering ~me~ for, talk to my father'
1864097;1539964528;BingoBoingo;In other jailbreaks: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/profugo-de-carcel-central-asesinatos-17-rapinas-y-otras-atrocidades-20181019121442
1864098;1539964632;mircea_popescu;atrocidades lol.
1864099;1539964676;asciilifeform;'Había ingresado hacía menos de una semana y estaba alojado en la celda siete del cuarto piso, junto a otros cinco internos. Se escapó luego de romper una reja, saltar desde varios metros de altura a un pozo de aire desde una altura de 12 metros, entrar a un depósito en donde encontró el uniforme de policía con el que se vistió para pasar desapercibido, y forzar una puerta...' << lol hollywood escape
1864100;1539964714;*;asciilifeform suspects instead orc escape, chum bribed guard , walked through open door
1864101;1539964746;mircea_popescu;who was that guy that had a number of children with the assortment of strippers hired to "guard" him back in the zone ?
1864102;1539964753;asciilifeform;usa iirc
1864103;1539964759;mircea_popescu;right.
1864104;1539964764;mircea_popescu;hence "the zone"
1864105;1539964784;asciilifeform;and hey, prior to that , who was it, luciano ? who had proper carpeted flat, writing desk, whores, in cell
1864106;1539964795;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863977 << it's "gilded" btw.
1864107;1539964795;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:30 Mocky: well not so 'guilded' for the bottom two classes, but at least they can leave now if they want
1864108;1539964870;Mocky;lol yup
1864109;1539964937;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I'll believe the hollywood escape is possible. All most of the kids here eat is hollywood.
1864110;1539965253;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not necessarily that it happened ; but you gotta understand the interaction between massively multiplayer ineptitude and internalized castration. prison sits there for years at a stretch without encountering an actual human being, 100% redditards spinning in their own internalized mental narratives, incapable of finding way out of paper bag. slowly decays, under imaginary maintenance, the sort that the aforement
1864111;1539965253;mircea_popescu;ioned tend to apply. "did that fix things ?" "i did what was in the book" "but did it work ?" "what do you want from me! what i do is just a gig! it's not my life!!!".
1864112;1539965269;mircea_popescu;then runs into actual human, suddenly the whole thing's closer to a drawing than anyone realised.
1864113;1539965294;mircea_popescu;or to use yest's terminology, after years of being maintained and populated by intelligent people, carcel central suddenly ran into a smart guy.
1864114;1539965315;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly naively, i pictured that the clink is the 1 place that regularly frictions against actual-human folx. but whoknows, after N gens of reddit, this.
1864115;1539965322;mircea_popescu;nope.
1864116;1539965344;mircea_popescu;i'd say sqft of  prison floor is actually slightly more deranged than sqft of starbucks
1864117;1539965386;asciilifeform;maybe moar deranged, but also moar decisive, neh ?
1864118;1539965398;mircea_popescu;this, incidentally, was ~always~ the case. during soviet times, i recall older guy saying to (friend) who worked at jail, "god fucking help you if an actual thief ever ends up in there".
1864119;1539965434;mircea_popescu;"he'll pick a lock and you'll be shot" "oh... i know ;(".
1864120;1539965437;BingoBoingo;And in still other local news, the Tranny reparations bill passed. Trannys born before 1975 with documentation showing "persecution under the dictatorship" (i.e. commie scum) will be getting 11.000 pesos monthly. The estimates are 150-180 of these tranny reparations will be made, and I am guessing everyone receiving them will be an FA party member.
1864121;1539965444;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: capital-B thief ? or lower case
1864122;1539965462;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform competency rather than connectivity is discussed.
1864123;1539965467;asciilifeform;aa
1864124;1539965475;mircea_popescu;locks, you knoiw ? what's in a lock
1864125;1539965481;mircea_popescu;especially if elite talent's stuck there boring with it.
1864126;1539965532;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo so they went to all this trouble to vote themselves a ~1mn annuity ?
1864127;1539965537;mircea_popescu;this FA business is very fucking inept.
1864128;1539965589;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: And it is inept in a way that is alienating the labor folk who "support" them
1864129;1539965602;mircea_popescu;ikr ?
1864130;1539965615;mircea_popescu;it's funny how the worst traits of pantsuitism export easiest.
1864131;1539965618;BingoBoingo;#MakeUruguayGreatAgain
1864132;1539965647;mircea_popescu;i'd say http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687624 ; but then again the suspicion in my mind is that this is the sort of thing thatd happen anyway.
1864133;1539965647;a111;Logged on 2017-07-20 19:52 asciilifeform: because unlearns faster than learns.
1864134;1539965668;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: by all accts, typical escape in su proper was during conveyance . prisons had well developed systems of stoolies, capos, cells packed like sardine can, not much lock fiddling there.
1864135;1539965697;mircea_popescu;ie, guy who was gonna steal a cookie was gonna steal a cookie ; that in the one case where he stole it he saw some guy stealing from a jar in miami so "he was emboldened by the sight" is entirely uncausative. he'd have stolen it because a spider climbed the wall and similarily "inspired" his dumb ass.
1864136;1539965733;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ro jail wasn't ever that full.
1864137;1539965744;mircea_popescu;well, not after 60s at any rate.
1864138;1539965753;asciilifeform;interesting, gotta wonder wainot
1864139;1539965763;mircea_popescu;maybe see above ? lol.
1864140;1539965781;mircea_popescu;anyway, what the dudes did have was a very strangely nordic, respectful and ellaborate ritual dealing with homosexuality.
1864141;1539965801;mircea_popescu;somehow managed to maintain bizarre taboos, such as "not using same dishes/flatware" across sexual orientation.
1864142;1539965811;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: trad in ru also
1864143;1539965816;asciilifeform;'spoon with hole'
1864144;1539965819;mircea_popescu;right, which is why i mention
1864145;1539965827;mircea_popescu;lmao. nah, wasn't agressive, strangely enough.
1864146;1539965834;mircea_popescu;almost as if picking factions in mmorpg.
1864147;1539965845;BingoBoingo;Anyways, Uruguay has one jailbreak story. Back in the dictatorship years a bunch of Commie scum (~150 NPCs) locked up in the future Punta Carretas Shopping tunneled their way out.
1864148;1539965863;BingoBoingo;Why deny it a second cooler story?
1864149;1539965895;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo so sad all the 70s dictatorships failed. argentina'd have been a way better place if the junta shot 10x more students and beat ~all of them.
1864150;1539965898;mircea_popescu;twice, for good measure.
1864151;1539965945;BingoBoingo;Fucking Uruguay's put themselves up for referendum! And let themselves lose!
1864152;1539965980;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ar is still historical puzzler to me -- they sprayed and sprayed, and no end of roaches; what was the issue, notenuff spray ?
1864153;1539966001;mircea_popescu;nfi.
1864154;1539966012;BingoBoingo;The dictatorship in Uruguay legalized cannabis in the 1970's to neuter the hippies and by the 1980's they lost at the ballot box.
1864155;1539966016;mircea_popescu;i think the problem was they permitted buenos aires agglomeration
1864156;1539966020;mircea_popescu;should have gulag'd properly.
1864157;1539966026;asciilifeform;( why wouldja stop at 10,000, lol, picture if stalin stopped )
1864158;1539966027;BingoBoingo;Complete ineptness in social engineering
1864159;1539966060;asciilifeform;argentina even comes with pretty great built-in siberia
1864160;1539966067;asciilifeform;build a kolyma in pampas...
1864161;1539966114;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> i think the problem was they permitted buenos aires agglomeration << The more time I spend here the more horrifying the idea of a Buenos Aires is.
1864162;1539966123;BingoBoingo;10x the warm bodies, no thanks
1864163;1539966130;BingoBoingo;Not from this stock
1864164;1539966232;mircea_popescu;yeah. problem is stalin got lucky (in the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759568 sense ) and siberia was "rich". pampas -- no such thing. so they didn't have the stepping stone, for it to occur to them, what to do with lefty students.
1864165;1539966232;a111;Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
1864166;1539966260;asciilifeform;rly, entirely barren land ? no wood, no coal, no uranium, nuffin ?
1864167;1539966284;asciilifeform;anybody ever so much as bothered to drill an' see ?
1864168;1539966294;mircea_popescu;but yes, totally -- go to college, on entrance test basis, 100% free, luxurios accomodations even. however at the end of it, the bottom half straight to kolyma.
1864169;1539966298;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: All the copper's in Chile on the other side of the mountains
1864170;1539966310;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ancient aluvionary plain. dead as disco.
1864171;1539966320;mircea_popescu;not that they did drill that much. but then again neither did stalin, at first.
1864172;1539966327;asciilifeform;gulagistan wasn't exactly rich in surface minerals, either, most of the digs were fairly deep
1864173;1539966355;mircea_popescu;huge north-south difference in earth. a little like -- will find more bug residue on car windshield than back-facing spoilers.
1864174;1539966357;asciilifeform;and '9000' empty holes for erry strike
1864175;1539966371;*;asciilifeform can picture this
1864176;1539966383;mircea_popescu;but i'm not saying it shouldn't have been done or couldn't have been done just as well
1864177;1539966397;mircea_popescu;i'm saying they missed the convenient doping in the mental dielectric to allow the sparking of "this! what we do is THIS!"
1864178;1539966424;asciilifeform;esp. odd considering that orig spanish had 0 problem with gulag for the aboriginal extras
1864179;1539966451;asciilifeform;( consider from where 'spanish gold' )
1864180;1539966471;BingoBoingo;Or in Uruguay's case non-prison genocide because they ate the wrong fellow
1864181;1539966511;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863981 << one idea is, most of these4 people prolly have a gf, who is possibly attempting to "live independently". talk to whatever aspirational class girlies do there ? "real estate agent" is it in latam ; maybe "expensive shop 5th avenue of doha" ? thjat was ~it in bucharest.
1864182;1539966511;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:33 Mocky: but there's exactly no one here who would use a coworks. you either came here for a job, or your dad can get you a job
1864183;1539966526;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they did not read/understand colon-ial history.
1864184;1539966593;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863986 << ahahahaha they think cowork is uni lab! roflmao.
1864185;1539966593;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:36 Mocky: ie year one do this, year 2 do this...
1864186;1539966604;mircea_popescu;orcs have nfi how any man tools work, do they ?!
1864187;1539966644;Mocky;silicon valley emulator
1864188;1539966664;mircea_popescu;not AT ALL how sv works lol. this is MIT emulator, 30 years later and made out of shit&hay.
1864189;1539966677;mircea_popescu;anyway, turns out qatar suffers from inverse problem of white world -- OVERmanaged.
1864190;1539966693;Mocky;right, paul grahamluator
1864191;1539966694;mircea_popescu;isn't speciation an incredible fucking phenomenon ? how can such divides naturally occur ?
1864192;1539966733;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863988 << fucking endearing. might as well document all of this for future lulz Mocky
1864193;1539966733;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:37 Mocky: the events are: make your slide deck, public speaking workshops, have an app...
1864194;1539966751;mircea_popescu;i have a feeling all these discussions will be referenced lots and lots in future, i'd rather not have anything trashed later "for lack of evidence".
1864195;1539966814;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863989 << no, because if they're there they're definitionally not worth meeting. exactly how you wouldn't try and hire for s.mg from the ro army ged class.
1864196;1539966814;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:37 diana_coman: the point being to my mind to perhaps meet *there* some people worth meeting, not as much joining the track per se
1864197;1539966834;Mocky;that reminds me how overstaffed everything is here. jewelry store in side a hypermarket, 7 dudes behind the counter. not enough room to all stretch arms out. 3 guards. zero customers. in the mall no matter where you go, will be in sight of 2 security guards
1864198;1539966873;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863993 << mother would be more useful, actually.
1864199;1539966873;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:38 diana_coman: failing that, I guess 20 somethings partying at least have a local father, for whatever good that might be
1864200;1539966903;mircea_popescu;Mocky alf's method above, yes ? :D stollies & all.
1864201;1539967033;Mocky;i see a resemblance
1864202;1539967122;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864004 << o fuck me, this is a SPLENDID idea
1864203;1539967122;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:49 Mocky: next to bottom class is cheap workers who aren't permitted to get a drivers license: http://archive.is/Cg7uU
1864204;1539967148;mircea_popescu;if cr implemenrted this same thing, "no driving license for office drone / cal lcenter chickie / whatever pipedream "professional" class" they'd have 0 problems left to fix.
1864205;1539967157;Mocky;even in the grocery, a dozen security guards on duty at once. some walking some guarding
1864206;1539967208;mircea_popescu;"Financial Services Worker" ; "Barber Beautician" yup it's 100% directed at them too
1864207;1539967208;Mocky;ikr? that list is the old one too. the newer once is twice as long, includes "computer programmer"
1864208;1539967221;mircea_popescu;PERFECT omfg.
1864209;1539967233;mircea_popescu;if only qatar took over south tyrol, we'd have something.
1864210;1539967280;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864009 << no, actually, sounds like "stupid daugthers". it's ~100% pantsuit list.
1864211;1539967280;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 09:51 diana_coman: sounds like ol' world drivers/gardeners/maids/cooks/servants in general, no?
1864212;1539967330;Mocky;i get it now why ubers swarm like piranha, most need a taxi to get around
1864213;1539967348;Mocky;and also why so reasonably priced
1864214;1539967371;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864022 << yes, they do. enemy -- in own head. postmodern times.
1864215;1539967371;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 13:25 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863957 << were you able to discover against whom these were built? generally folx dun build castles when no enemy..
1864216;1539967452;mircea_popescu;which reminds me of a bon mot i put out 20 years ago. "rich dude" of the warren buffett/alexander abramov was building house. very large, somerwaht brutalistic, remarkably small windows. "why are the windows so small ?!" "he's trying to re-create his prison experience".
1864217;1539967458;asciilifeform;Mocky, mircea_popescu : the 'professions not given driver license' thing dun make much sense imho; why not much shorter list of who ~is~ given, 'titled baron', 'ceo of co listed on exchange', 'fuhrer', etc
1864218;1539967463;Mocky;fwiw, i quite like it. all comers don't need to look in my windows and knock on my door
1864219;1539967466;mircea_popescu;people's problems -- in their heads. it's the 3rd millenium after a ll.
1864220;1539967471;asciilifeform;why the massive list of 'milkman', 'muazin', etc
1864221;1539967498;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform "cause fuck you, that's why" ?
1864222;1539967527;asciilifeform;strikes me as 'enumerated bad'(tm) is all
1864223;1539967541;Mocky;fine grained sortage of foreigners
1864224;1539967584;Mocky;the list of permitted would be longer
1864225;1539967586;asciilifeform;iirc in asia they have ~same thing, but encoded differently, they simply charge 100k $ for 'car tax'
1864226;1539967594;mircea_popescu;maybe the idea is that since people will focus on the list, they'd rather them focus on the negative list and try to get out than focus on the positive and try to break the system.
1864227;1539967607;asciilifeform;could be
1864228;1539967622;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform also a good idea. the girls know how many times i went "car license - 100k!"
1864229;1539967641;asciilifeform;iirc even in some sad old europistans they had this
1864230;1539967644;asciilifeform;( norway ? )
1864231;1539967691;asciilifeform;picture, roads where transport actually moves...
1864232;1539967735;mircea_popescu;this "cars for all comers" toyota program of doom gotta cease.
1864233;1539967762;Mocky;traffic is only bad here during rush hour, and even then not as bad as rush hour in us cities. so long as you avoid the "10 minute lights"
1864234;1539967784;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864040 << your favourite shoemaker used to have the police regularly beat these, and then detain them in workcamps.
1864235;1539967784;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 13:48 asciilifeform: well not just any idlers, but folx not fitting into the structure. bums, pickpockets, the typical bipedal ferals of 'civilization'
1864236;1539967792;mircea_popescu;in retrospect is the #1 thing i like about him.
1864237;1539967800;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: stalin pioneered
1864238;1539967803;mircea_popescu;aha.
1864239;1539967968;asciilifeform;re drivers -- why not, e.g., combine license and taxi medallion. wanna drive ? register as driver, buy medallion, dun have to carry passengers or paint livery on 'cab' if you dun feel like, but pony up.
1864240;1539968074;asciilifeform;usa is a peculiar horror, with little-to-no reliable public transport in most places; but pretty much errywhere else, could easily do as above
1864241;1539968092;Mocky;i'm sure the qataris in lambos would love that angle
1864242;1539968106;asciilifeform;what's an extra 100k on a 2mil lambo
1864243;1539968143;Mocky;"now you are officially a limo driver also" "wtf!?"
1864244;1539968174;BingoBoingo;I am sure there would be a lot less cars in Uruguay if motherfuckers weren't spending all day doing the Uber to pay for their cars
1864245;1539968210;BingoBoingo;But when living 3-5 generations to a household...
1864246;1539968211;asciilifeform;Mocky: afaik pilots already live with ~exactly this system
1864247;1539968294;asciilifeform;Mocky: herr baron himself aint 'limo driver' tho. even in nyc most medallion owners do not themselves drive cab.
1864248;1539968298;asciilifeform;they own fleets.
1864249;1539968438;Mocky;here, civilized person can't walk more than 3 blocks outside during midday. would be drenched in sweat. likewise can't stand for 15 minutes waiting for bus. it's get into a car with AC or smell like the riff raff
1864250;1539968600;Mocky;but the sun sets early without daylight savings time, and it cools quickly without the sun, so can walk outside after about 4:45
1864251;1539968603;mircea_popescu;training for mars, cosmonautski.
1864252;1539968730;mircea_popescu;Mocky another angle : find someone to sell btc to.
1864253;1539968775;Mocky;localbitcoins shows one dude in country. and a couple nearby in SA, dubai etc.
1864254;1539968787;Mocky;one dude with one transaction
1864255;1539968790;mircea_popescu;talk about it to the dude and to all older local males you can find.
1864256;1539968796;mircea_popescu;and all the sons.
1864257;1539968806;Mocky;yeah, good idea
1864258;1539968992;Mocky;I can find local males, there are tons walking around malls in bright white robes with their families.
1864259;1539969048;Mocky;keeping an eye on their females
1864260;1539969240;BingoBoingo;Mocky: One encouraging thing you have in Qatar that you don't in Uruguay is evidence these people have money somewhere, hence buying S-400's from Russia
1864261;1539969306;Mocky;yeah, lots of money
1864262;1539969361;Mocky;i'm meeting 25 more people tomorrow at some meetup thing at a mall with gondola rides thru an interior canal
1864263;1539969408;mircea_popescu;cool.
1864264;1539969418;mircea_popescu;anyway, make it a point of conversation. prolly will help dredge for you.
1864265;1539969499;Mocky;I talk to people about what I'm doing here and I'm not really all that good at talking to people and I only half know wtf i'm doing here. i mean in a way that I can explain to randos and have it make sense
1864266;1539969517;mircea_popescu;and don't be ashamed/shy away from saying things like "i'm a representative of the most serene republic of bitcoin, we're looking to build etc".
1864267;1539969519;Mocky;kind like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857552
1864268;1539969519;a111;Logged on 2018-10-03 03:41 asciilifeform: ( pretty hard, imho, to even begin in language heathens might understand.. )
1864269;1539969541;mircea_popescu;it's weird, yers. but in the circumstances as i understand them, weird is 500x times better than trite, "hello sir, i r guampatambatam from my country india"
1864270;1539969598;mircea_popescu;Mocky what's the half you don't know ?
1864271;1539969605;Mocky;that's about how i feel honestly when walking up to people and talking to them about this stuff
1864272;1539969638;mircea_popescu;"that" ?
1864273;1539969676;Mocky;"hello sir, i'm a nigerian prince with excellent business opportunities"
1864274;1539969689;mircea_popescu;um. but why ?
1864275;1539969707;mircea_popescu;"i'm a guy who knows a lot of shit you orcs don't."
1864276;1539969727;mircea_popescu;you literally came from the future, all those boyiush fantasies of "what if i landed in medieval blabla" are ~this.
1864277;1539969763;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864258 - now I wonder what arab ghosts have left to wear
1864278;1539969763;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 17:09 Mocky: I can find local males, there are tons walking around malls in bright white robes with their families.
1864279;1539969781;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864252 << i guess i misspoke. what i meant was, "find someone who really really was desperately trying to buy btc but never could before, because insulated in the qtar shitland"
1864280;1539969781;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 17:05 mircea_popescu: Mocky another angle : find someone to sell btc to.
1864281;1539969955;Mocky;hey, maybe if i actually was suave then could come up with how to explain the future to orcs, but i'll get more chances to try tomorrow in any case
1864282;1539969974;mircea_popescu;lol dun take it so hard. i dunno you're doing anything wrong, what.
1864283;1539970077;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> that's about how i feel honestly when walking up to people and talking to them about this stuff << "I am refugee from the US here to Make Great, Great Again"
1864284;1539970133;Mocky;it's weird because they way they look up to americans and western companies / universities, while also infidel
1864285;1539970167;Mocky;white man is on a pedestal here. americans the most
1864286;1539970172;BingoBoingo;They do that here too "Gringo colonizers" "Capitalist pigs"
1864287;1539970783;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864270 >> I don't have everything sorted in my mind. I don't know yet what they need or perceive that they need. or how to position myself with respect to the microsoft/cisco/cornell they have respect so much.
1864288;1539970783;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 17:19 mircea_popescu: Mocky what's the half you don't know ?
1864289;1539971298;Mocky;"they have respect so much" damn, only 10 days and I'm already doing english like the indians/philipinos/nigerians/ethiopians/tanzanians/wakandans etc.
1864290;1539971516;Mocky;it's hard to understand people here, randomly selected thick accent each time. it's a relief to run into brit or irish
1864291;1539972476;mircea_popescu;jesus. don't do that.
1864292;1539972640;mircea_popescu;in any case -- our objerction to the microshit/cisco/cornell pile is that they're NOT NEARLY WHITE ENOUGH, for our tastes.
1864293;1539972665;mircea_popescu;so communicate that, how hard can it be. "oh, cisco, so last century. white man has made even more cornell-ian cornell nao."
1864294;1539972683;mircea_popescu;on top of it being the exact situation in the field, it's also something easy enough to digest for orc mind.
1864295;1539972763;Mocky;ok
1864296;1539975095;asciilifeform;in moar minor noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863610 is a++ display but pretty sad box, i forgot just how rubbishy these were, cramped kbd with coarse molded plastic feels like sumthing straight from toy store, touch pad thing is the size of 2 postage stamps, arm rest creaks...
1864297;1539975095;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 20:16 asciilifeform: this will be a cuntoo box, when i get around to redisking it
1864298;1539975544;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo : it's pretty much exactly like those things sold in the sunday market in BingoBoingostan
1864299;1539975586;BingoBoingo;Except now it has a sweet screen and the ones in the market have mega sad screens
1864300;1539975651;asciilifeform;at least i can only with difficulty picture anybody wanting to steal it..
1864301;1539975704;asciilifeform;the 'qi' crystal has '90s-style viewing angle, too. coupla degrees left or right and it's ~half visible. i suppose for some applications this, too, is win
1864302;1539975768;asciilifeform;it's moar or less ideal box for expeditions into deep orcistan. but to work on it all day would be pretty painful.
1864303;1539975785;BingoBoingo;Dell made a 10" Latitude 'business netbook' which appears to be common in the online listings here (Marketing point was it is the robust netbook). I wonder if it will eat the Qi.
1864304;1539975831;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: best as i can tell, nuffin but samsung n30, n150, lenovo s10-2 (but not s10-3, i opened one and no dice, cabling too short) will eat the thing.
1864305;1539975870;asciilifeform;test unit here is 'n150' .
1864306;1539975880;*;BingoBoingo might have to do some reading/lamenting there isn't an 11.6" version
1864307;1539975903;asciilifeform;the only mass prod / gettable one , is pq3qi-01 .
1864308;1539975925;asciilifeform;https://www.elinux.org/images/3/3f/PQ3QI-01.pdf << datashit. (sorry , pdfolade )
1864309;1539975952;asciilifeform;235 x 143 mm .
1864310;1539976016;BingoBoingo;I tried doing some digging and also found a still smaller 7" version
1864311;1539976023;asciilifeform;extinct afaik
1864312;1539976752;asciilifeform;i'd buy a troo b&w crystal in a heartbeat, but nobody afaik ever made'em in usable ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859393 ) or near, res, or in such a way that'd electrically fit any available box
1864313;1539976752;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 14:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859362 << 16 (plain, no bolds) x 80 == 1280 min. horiz. pixels needed for this.
1864314;1539983105;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=59 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 08/25/2018
1864315;1539984441;BingoBoingo;OMG reading summarizing back in time
1864316;1539984461;asciilifeform;whatever happend to http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com btw
1864317;1539984467;asciilifeform;imho it was great
1864318;1539984782;billymg;trinque: update on progress: after several nights of heavy drinking i managed to also catch a cold. working on mp-wp setup this afternoon (at reduced capacity) and was able to press and get it to http://161.0.121.194
1864319;1539984799;billymg;i also added the libmcrypt ebuild here http://161.0.121.194/downloads/libmcrypt.ebuild.tar.gz
1864320;1539984818;billymg;which allows for emerging without upgrading portage to the gpg2 requiring version
1864321;1539984851;billymg;just need to extract into /usr/local/portage to use
1864322;1539984873;BingoBoingo;I get a tonsilitis, billymg gets a cold... Under the two times coincidence rule if one more person gets sick this week, gotta call it biowarfare
1864323;1539984902;billymg;lol not just us, others in my meat-wot as well
1864324;1539984956;billymg;with whom i did not come in contact, otherwise would go without saying
1864325;1539985220;Mocky;my tonsils have felt swolen for past 4 hours but im not saying it out loud so it wont be real
1864326;1539985254;Mocky;but i think it's because my AC has been our for 6 hrs, cuz totally
1864327;1539985300;BingoBoingo;The Peruana has the sore throat deal about a month ago, but she sought medical attention as soon as she registered a fever, because nurse has to get that work note to show the hospital
1864328;1539985324;Mocky;and i mean it's cool that 3 dudes will show up to fix your ac at 11pm, back in states it's 9-5 strictly, but man pushing up on 1am and they still working and not seeing signals of competence...
1864329;1539985377;BingoBoingo;Mocky: It could also be that you hit the 2 week mark and the local viruses caught up to your presence
1864330;1539985433;Mocky;i would say that local virii stand no chance against me but that would jinx it
1864331;1539985744;BingoBoingo;And now that Uruguay passed tranny reparations, they can turn to the real scourge: "Gobierno quiere prohibir que se cruce la calle mirando el celular"
1864332;1539987864;Mocky;my AC compressor on the roof had a problem. now these clowns didn't fix it but did manage to break the indoor fan and circuit board as well. and i gotta get up in 6 hours for this meet and greet. gonna be a sweaty night
1864333;1539988234;BingoBoingo;Godspeed Mocky
1864334;1539988741;mircea_popescu;<billymg> trinque: update on progress: after several nights of heavy drinking i managed to also catch a cold. <<< bwahahah ok this was pretty lulzy.
1864335;1539988887;mircea_popescu;"it's cool that 3 dudes will show up to fix your ac at 11pm ; it's sad that they're not particularily qualified to fix anytrhing, or even be indoors, really..."
1864336;1539988905;mircea_popescu;you know, if they just uber'd ows over to your house, the us could also do 11pm
1864337;1539989501;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i had one of these not long ago !
1864338;1539989528;asciilifeform;srsly! d00d showed up to fix leaking condensate drain, took 3 (!) trips to... not fix anyffing, ceiling drip, drip
1864339;1539989557;asciilifeform;finally vendor sends an actual tech, who fixes and takes pics, then reveals 'oh him? he was a fraud'
1864340;1539989598;asciilifeform;and come to think of it, tech #1 did look rather like a 'ows' ...
1864341;1539989620;mircea_popescu;heh
1864342;1539989842;*;BingoBoingo to celebrate first visual tonsil regression with early beachwalk (They put the lifeguard huts up this week). Brb, voy a ver mis olas.
1864343;1539993691;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, panzers! zoolag going down for ~30min for test of experimental patch, in ~10m
1864344;1539998233;BingoBoingo;In other grotesque perversions: http://archive.is/et1V4
1864345;1539998622;BingoBoingo;With a higher body count: http://archive.is/dSzNm
1864346;1539999862;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf i found today that your keccak-vdiff is unable to eat a 40MB file ( dies politely with stack overflow )
1864347;1539999862;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1864348;1539999939;mircea_popescu;this is not good.
1864349;1539999953;asciilifeform;it's a fairly simple fix, as i understand, gotta up the max stack
1864350;1539999963;asciilifeform;but , importantly, will have to arrive at a max, if using stack.
1864351;1539999969;asciilifeform;there is not a magical way out of this on linux, sadly.
1864352;1540000057;asciilifeform;meanwhile: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! >> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-October/000315.html
1864353;1540000074;asciilifeform;( and yes mod6 it will have to be reground, but it experimental patch, so this is not avoidable at any rate )
1864354;1540000116;asciilifeform;( for the impatient : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/snap_546400.txt )
1864355;1540000304;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf plox to snarf http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-October/000315.html into 'experiment' tree.
1864356;1540000304;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1864357;1540000404;asciilifeform;adventurous souls who can spare ~hour of CPU, are invited to shit out own snapshot, and diff w/ above.
1864358;1540000434;asciilifeform;errybody oughta see exactly ~same~ output.
1864359;1540000456;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform should prolly go in the config file o.O
1864360;1540000473;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: imho yes
1864361;1540000488;asciilifeform;iirc can even be set machinewide, but i fughet how
1864362;1540000497;mircea_popescu;i guess so. there were some other items scattered about re what should go in the config file for vtron
1864363;1540000625;asciilifeform;there is of course another method, keccak could use my mmap thing
1864364;1540000648;asciilifeform;( once i finally shit out the cleaned/reground/keccakized genesis thereof, it's near in the conveyor )
1864365;1540000660;asciilifeform;bonus, will run substantially faster.
1864366;1540000700;asciilifeform;really mmap is the champ for disk i/o on unixlikes.
1864367;1540001091;mircea_popescu;not a bad idea, at that.
1864368;1540046662;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864346 << ty, this is a bug in vdiff for sure, i'll investigate
1864369;1540046662;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 01:44 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i found today that your keccak-vdiff is unable to eat a 40MB file ( dies politely with stack overflow )
1864370;1540046662;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 12 hours and 59 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i found today that your keccak-vdiff is unable to eat a 40MB file ( dies politely with stack overflow )
1864371;1540046663;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 12 hours and 52 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to snarf http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-October/000315.html into 'experiment' tree.
1864372;1540046725;phf;i suspect when i was removing various optimizations from c diff, i removed something that let it eat larger files, because regular diff obviously diffs
1864373;1540046781;phf;i also don't think it's a stack allocation issue, ksum against the file works, and the integration between c diff and keccak was designed with chunk reading in mind
1864374;1540046808;asciilifeform;phf: it's an ada stack overflow, so almost certainly in keccak
1864375;1540046840;asciilifeform;and it happens prior to any output
1864376;1540046909;asciilifeform;try it yourself, the 40M snapshot txt from last night was the trigger
1864377;1540046961;phf;hmm, i wonder if it's maybe c/ada interop? straight ksum gives me the answer, and it uses the same incremental mechanism (already trie)d
1864378;1540046962;phf;70af5c296fb8a9e9bae4c871cbedc67345db91f3e380170fc07b83871e8b5079b9ae55d44a7f5c9afb6eea64211712eaf88a608a4d7e52bcf209c425f776cc9c  snap_546400.txt
1864379;1540047058;asciilifeform;ha
1864380;1540047079;asciilifeform;i was on a box without the standalone keccak, so tried to use vdiff to get keccakization
1864381;1540047103;phf;diana_coman's keccak interface uses a KeccakWholeThing(...) method (not the actual name), in vtools i added a new interface, which follows the classical hasher format: KeccakCtx() UpdateCtx(ctx, data) EndCtx(ctx, resultHash)
1864382;1540047129;phf;so data would be stack friendly in this case, which is also how ksum is written
1864383;1540047200;phf;but i like your suggestion also, i suspect diana's interface can be used against your mmap result
1864384;1540047247;asciilifeform;phf: not sure yet, the bytes->bits bloatism might get in the way
1864385;1540047327;asciilifeform;it will have to be cured at some point, keccakization currently eats 8x moar memory (9x if counting the fact that it cannot run in-place) than it ought
1864386;1540047715;phf;so i have a vdiff that takes an -s flag (enables sha512), and it works fine
1864387;1540047717;phf;+++ b/snap_546400.txt 326782a77b9ca1d83da6af8e28f305d5fd6c0b509507effbf50f1cd932c4e882edeb8887632664c073c8dca097145cada941490efdae6443e82bbb85a9ca1371
1864388;1540047818;asciilifeform;possibly my stack is set smaller than yours ?
1864389;1540047823;asciilifeform;will have to check
1864390;1540047860;asciilifeform;i'm curious what it was that overflowed it tho
1864391;1540047912;phf;no no, that's an unreleased enable sha512, so my point is that it must be something in ada/c interop, or the particular way i do it in vdiff: ksum works though it uses same interface, vdiff sha512 works though it uses an architecturally identical sha interface.
1864392;1540047944;asciilifeform;aah hm.
1864393;1540048325;Mocky;oh my god I found some humans today
1864394;1540048390;Mocky;talked to me for a couple hours about biznis, Qataris etc. got some good info
1864395;1540048523;phf;you made it to a hookah bar then?
1864396;1540048694;phf;is joke see, all middle eastern business is done at hookah bars
1864397;1540048920;Mocky;yes, actually, but they don't call it hookah here, they call it shisha. but that wasn't today and no humans in sight
1864398;1540049028;Mocky;today was at a cheesecake factory, in a mall bigger than my home town in which I got lost twice
1864399;1540049214;phf;they ought to call it argile, but i suspect shisha is more international. in turkey they call it nargile almost exclusively, and only call it shisha when trying to communicate with a foreigner
1864400;1540049221;phf;my iranians call it kalyan which is also how we call it in russian.
1864401;1540049265;asciilifeform;'И, склонясь в дыму кальяна На цветной диван, У жемчужного фонтана Дремлет Тегеран' (tm)(r) !
1864402;1540049326;asciilifeform;http://www.runivers.ru/bookreader/books/18669/0005.gif << oblig illust.
1864403;1540049394;asciilifeform;Mocky: what sorta humans ?
1864404;1540049532;Mocky;phf well i've only spoken to foreigners here about it so that could be the case here as well, but it does say "shisha" on the printed menu, but also printed in english for foreigners
1864405;1540049736;Mocky;an older american lady who works in a qatari house and has authority over the financial dealings of the sons with business degrees from uni and because of the status of the father (her boss) there are other lower station qataris that she doesn't need to listen to
1864406;1540049780;Mocky;the other was an Egyptian veterinary doctor who has been working freelance here for some years
1864407;1540049847;Mocky;i met others as well, europeans, americans, canadians but they didn't know about biz or qataris enough to contribute to the convo
1864408;1540049848;asciilifeform;phf: what does your  ulimit -s  say ? mine's 8192 kB
1864409;1540049919;phf;asciilifeform: i figured out what the issue is
1864410;1540049950;asciilifeform;aite, will wait for full postmortem
1864411;1540050003;phf;diff's block reader doesn't necessarily attempt to keep the blocks small, allocates a 39098690 buffer, which crosses the boundary and immediatelly hits the part you've already pointed out: x8 bitstream allocator
1864412;1540050030;phf;bitstream allocation happens on stack, so..
1864413;1540050107;phf;i suspect a temporary solution as far as vdiff is concerned is to spoon feed keccak smaller blocks
1864414;1540050203;asciilifeform;really, keccak oughta be doable in-place. but i haven't loaded it into my head yet and cannot immediately say how to rewrite equation so that it could
1864415;1540050558;phf;Mocky: oh yeah i didn't mean to imply that in qatar specifically it's only foreigners term, seems like the words used are entirely regional, e.g. egyptians call it shisha also. i've smoked too much hookah, so i like to know the whole set, so that i can effectively communicate with the locals :)
1864416;1540052262;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=60 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 08/24/2018
1864417;1540058369;billymg;everything running nicely now http://161.0.121.194 -- writeup forthcoming
1864418;1540058377;asciilifeform;oh hey
1864419;1540058385;asciilifeform;loads
1864420;1540058401;billymg;many thanks to esthlos, hanbot, BingoBoingo, phf for helpful posts
1864421;1540058408;billymg;and to trinque for giving me the task
1864422;1540058470;billymg;curious what type of browser environments the lords use -- when writing a theme for mp-wp will need to know what kind of font, css, js support to expect
1864423;1540058518;asciilifeform;billymg: pretty much errybody uses 'lynx' at least occasionally, and sometimes ordinary graphical browser
1864424;1540058534;asciilifeform;( iirc there's even somebody with early 2000s 'opera' )
1864425;1540058575;asciilifeform;billymg: most folx have multiple boxes, for different occasions, with diff contents
1864426;1540058590;billymg;ah
1864427;1540058644;billymg;is there perhaps a list of "definitely don't use [feature], will never load for republicans"
1864428;1540058682;asciilifeform;js is used pretty much entirely for mircea_popescu's linkable-text-selection thing
1864429;1540058688;asciilifeform;(afaik nowhere else)
1864430;1540058746;asciilifeform;there aren't really explicit lists of 'don't's, the philosophy is really 'don't do obviously dumb things'
1864431;1540058799;*;billymg nods
1864432;1540058809;billymg;ok, that makes sense
1864433;1540058815;asciilifeform;e.g. building a www that doesn't correctly display when put through archive.is , is evidence of having done something dumb
1864434;1540058826;billymg;aha
1864435;1540058836;asciilifeform;( various heathen sites routinely 'load content dynamically' etc )
1864436;1540058847;billymg;this is a nice heuristic
1864437;1540058865;asciilifeform;if your thing is bookmarkable, and readable in 'curl' output, it's generally healthy.
1864438;1540058903;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864394 -> oh hey, nice!
1864439;1540058903;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 15:13 Mocky: talked to me for a couple hours about biznis, Qataris etc. got some good info
1864440;1540058984;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864385 -> yes; perhaps as it gets used more, the trouble becomes more pressing and then it'll get done...
1864441;1540058984;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 14:55 asciilifeform: it will have to be cured at some point, keccakization currently eats 8x moar memory (9x if counting the fact that it cannot run in-place) than it ought
1864442;1540058995;asciilifeform;billymg: on list of 'definitely nobody in his right mind will use' -- sslism comes to mind
1864443;1540059018;asciilifeform;diana_coman: which item in your 'shelf' contains the most recent keccak , to go from ?
1864444;1540059021;diana_coman;billymg, flash won't load
1864445;1540059034;asciilifeform;lol afaik even the heathens have largely forgotten flashism
1864446;1540059043;diana_coman;asciilifeform, eucrypt, that's where keccak lives
1864447;1540059050;asciilifeform;ok as i thought, ty
1864448;1540059054;diana_coman;np
1864449;1540059089;diana_coman;and re flashism...idiotic stuff tends to linger
1864450;1540059127;asciilifeform;somewhere, on some forgotten www, prolly even 'shockwave' lingers
1864451;1540059153;asciilifeform;but for the most part crapple succeeded in exterminating flashism ( to replace with own 'html5' abortion )
1864452;1540059219;diana_coman;ah, I don't quite distinguish between them really
1864453;1540059288;asciilifeform;they're distinguishable ~only in that 'flash' at this point requires elaborate gymnastics to run, involving pretty much sacrifice of a whole box (sorta like java)
1864454;1540059307;asciilifeform;whereas 'html5' past ~decade of graphical browsers will mostly display (if with eggogs)
1864455;1540059465;asciilifeform;afaik the only thinking folx today with copy of 'flash' are , like asciilifeform , running it on dedicated winblowz leprosorium, specifically for unpacking virii which require it...
1864456;1540059552;asciilifeform;and come to think of it, i dun think i've used mine in several yrs.
1864457;1540059552;diana_coman;I have one box for all the shit, yes
1864458;1540060001;Mocky;so i dug into what it's like to be in business with Qataris and how their attitudes are, with my 11 new acquaintances at breakfast today. 3 of them have had first hand experience in their business dealings for years now and happy to tell stories. I'll relay the gist of it here. on the following points there was not the slightest disagreement from anyone at the table, only nodding heads and further stories illustrating the exact same points.
1864459;1540060037;*;asciilifeform stands up ears, tunes in
1864460;1540060045;Mocky;They have a very poor appreciation for intangibles. They want to get something they can hold in their hand when they spend money. If it's something they can't see, they balk at paying for it. And if they do pay for it, it'll bother them to no end. One example was dude decided he wanted a car, ordered a brand new, fully customized Bentley. 350k USD. Wouldn't go pick it up when it arrived because balked at having to pay 900 USD /month for insurance. not
1864461;1540060046;Mocky;because insurance was to expensive for the given coverage, but because "paying money to get nothing".
1864462;1540060096;Mocky;Another example was horse needed some major surgery. owner had no problem paying for facilities, staff, ancillaries but balked at paying surgeon fee. "i pay you much less for minor treatments, why must I pay more for your time now". Selling them preventative medicine or machine maintenance is a non-starter. They'd rather pay 10x when the emergency hits because then they know they are getting something for their money.
1864463;1540060122;asciilifeform;Mocky: is the implication also that they dun bother to look into totalcostofownership before buying ? hence the legends of bedouin sheiks buying a merc and leaving it in desert when fuel tank empty ..?
1864464;1540060220;Mocky;impression i got was totalcostofownership can't compete with how they feel about it in their gut
1864465;1540060235;diana_coman;hm, re insurance I'm not sure it is evidence of "wouldn't pay if not tangible"
1864466;1540060245;asciilifeform;Mocky: sounds like they're perfect candidates for selling iron to, rather than softs, then
1864467;1540060258;diana_coman;more of "wouldn't pay if I don't need it" and they might not need the shitinsurance
1864468;1540060329;Mocky;diana_coman, that could be a reasonable assumption and i suggested the same to my companions, they shook thier heads.
1864469;1540060354;Mocky;i've haven't seen personally, so all i can do is report for now
1864470;1540060370;Mocky;This goes hand in hand with their feeling that everyone comes to Qatar to take their money and rip them off. So all these fancy insurance / maintenance contracts "feel" like they give nothing to the buyer, plus they were dreamed up by foreigners who come to rip them off and decieve them. They detest such things. Easier to sell them a spoon they can old in their hand today for a million dollars than get them to agree to a monthly payout to a vet for care of
1864471;1540060370;Mocky;a stable of horses, no matter how much it saves them in the long run.
1864472;1540060412;diana_coman;Mocky, maybe it's worth writing it all up in a blog post? it seems to me you have quite a lot to say and it's easier to have a reference point afterwards
1864473;1540060428;asciilifeform;possibly will be a tough audience for the traditional type of consulting, where you '$ 1 : turned screw $499,999 -- knowing which screw'
1864474;1540060448;diana_coman;honestly, by this description I start even liking them
1864475;1540060496;Mocky;also seems to go hand in hand with their impulsiveness. 3 different people described this exact scenario. Qatari goes opens a business with someone (one freelance vet service, one animal rescue shelter, one doggy day care) 3 months later decides, "I didn't realize I was going to have to keep paying so much every month (payroll, rent, etc.) where's the profit?" "it may take a year to become profitable, it's only been 3 months" "I'm not paying anymore." which
1864476;1540060496;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I don't think so; I think they would pay *you* that 500k if you manage to convince them that you are worth that for them
1864477;1540060496;Mocky;isn't necessarily bad, but bad that they waited till 3 months in to even think about it. In the case of the shelter, it was a charity, never meant to make a profit. but still "dun wanna pay anymore"
1864478;1540060505;diana_coman;but they won't pay rando "expert" that, no
1864479;1540060536;asciilifeform;diana_coman: hmm, from my reading seems that they won't pay anybody for 'which screw' , gotta also supply a physical talisman they can hang on wall
1864480;1540060546;asciilifeform;but i'ma let Mocky elaborate, possibly diff will become clear
1864481;1540060588;asciilifeform;thus far sounds like typical savages, with both plus and minus, won't buy 'how to dig well' but will buy musket.
1864482;1540060589;Mocky;Also re impulsiveness: one school adminsitrator said they have a rule of 3 for instructions comeing down from Qatari management. Let them ask three times including an official goverment memo before you do anything they say. Because as soon as they start to see the fall out of random impulsive decisions they will reverse it and have you undo all your work.
1864483;1540060620;asciilifeform;Mocky: funnily enuff, it's how i deal with americans..
1864484;1540060624;diana_coman;ahahahah
1864485;1540060690;Mocky;and this wasn't like just one school. was city wide "make every teacher do x" after 900 parent complaints "stop doing x"
1864486;1540060715;diana_coman;so "impulsiveness" would be "don't think it through"? or "won't listen/care about more than 2 steps ahead"?
1864487;1540060808;Mocky;came across like simpleton management, decree whatever occurs to you, dilbert-esque pointy haired manager on steroids
1864488;1540060844;Mocky;like both don't think and won't listen
1864489;1540060853;Mocky;One Qatari owns a chain of 9 fittness supplement stores. 3 of the stores were found to have someone pocketing the cash from transactions. Owner fired everyone in all 9 stores because "see, everyone tries to steal from us". Also he had his driver who can barely count to 10 doing store inventory for him.
1864490;1540060866;diana_coman;so why are those people starting doggy rescue/care biznis in qatar of all places?
1864491;1540060892;Mocky;that I don't know
1864492;1540060892;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ikr? it's the last thing i'd think of pitching to dar-al-islam
1864493;1540060893;diana_coman;because somehow it does read like "oh, they have money, let's bleed them"
1864494;1540060915;asciilifeform;( what's next , pet pig rescue in israel ?? )
1864495;1540060921;Mocky;Word is that they want to make a profit, but don't want to have to put money into it. and they want the profit now. but don't think it thru, maybe can be convinced easily
1864496;1540060940;Mocky;and don't want to have to put sweat into it either
1864497;1540060979;asciilifeform;Mocky: out of curiosity, didja see even one dog ?
1864498;1540060981;Mocky;maybe they want to claim "i started a charity like my older brother" no idea yet why
1864499;1540060982;asciilifeform;anywhere
1864500;1540061060;Mocky;no dogs but word this morning was that expat western women keep them here like surrogate children just as elsewhere, and there are enough to make a good business
1864501;1540061068;Mocky;cats a plenty
1864502;1540061079;asciilifeform;aaah western women
1864503;1540061129;asciilifeform;Mocky: cat is a++ mohammed-approved beast. biznis d00d oughta have opened a cat biz.
1864504;1540061137;Mocky;but ~all cats i've seen are stones throw from open dumpster. i bet if they had auto-closing lids on dumpsters cats would go extinct
1864505;1540061149;asciilifeform;hm so not like turks, then..
1864506;1540061182;Mocky;the cats tho! so skinny and downs syndrome looking
1864507;1540061188;Mocky;and move so slowly
1864508;1540061204;Mocky;to much time seeing fat cats in US
1864509;1540061232;Mocky;Being as the requirement for standard LLC is 51% Qatari ownership, this new info suggests to me that having two locals who split the 51% may be the way to go. They can still close it down but not at the whim of a single person.
1864510;1540061255;Mocky;And sticking a Qatari with ongoing expenditures was never on my radar, def seems like something to explicitly avoid.
1864511;1540061306;Mocky;files swim to safety?
1864512;1540061313;Mocky;fuck, ignore
1864513;1540061383;Mocky;too many keyboards sitting on lap
1864514;1540061392;asciilifeform;lol
1864515;1540061439;Mocky;got a years worth of rain here today
1864516;1540061459;diana_coman;Mocky, I wonder though how much those burnt partners actually catered to the qatari partner as an ongoing relationship rather than just "he gives money for my biznis" (and how the hell is a charity a business, ugh)
1864517;1540061502;asciilifeform;good q -- what's their notion of charity, anyway
1864518;1540061512;mats;reads like some qataris are like amateur daytraders
1864519;1540061526;mats;pretense of doing business without having to do it
1864520;1540061545;mats;impress dad
1864521;1540061551;asciilifeform;Mocky: unrelated q -- are qataris fixated on precious metals, like in dubai ?
1864522;1540061569;Mocky;i get the impression from other talks (not today) that there is no end of "i have great biz idea for importing from my home country india" being pitched
1864523;1540061631;Mocky;asciilifeform, this I haven't heard, but flashy stuff like rolex, lambos, bentleys I have heard
1864524;1540061667;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform worked for some yrs for a fella who regularly traveled to dubai, and never failed to mention the 'gold bar ATMs' )
1864525;1540061820;asciilifeform;Mocky: aand do they still stick to the koranic prohibition against lending-at-interest ? (is that why they spend on 'bling' and oddball 'charity' ..? )
1864526;1540061888;asciilifeform;( i dun recall whether mircea_popescu revealed whether this is troo in egypt, also, come to think of it )
1864527;1540062028;Mocky;yes lending at interest illegal. credit card issuance with interest, illegal
1864528;1540062059;asciilifeform;how do they even do lending ? fully collateralized loans only ?
1864529;1540062086;Mocky;bank invests, shares profit
1864530;1540062100;Mocky;if there is more beyond that, i haven't dug deep enough to find it
1864531;1540062237;Mocky;bitcoin is also illegal for banks to exchange in. which apparently some wanted to do but now central bank authority has banned
1864532;1540062642;Mocky;re meeting Qataris, I found that 30-something aged men interested in business hang out at certain places on a daily basis. if you go and hang there and get to know them, if they like you they may invite you to majalis. which is the regular practice of closing off half of the home from women in the evening and doing man cave shit
1864533;1540062689;Mocky;normally is informal "playstation" time, but occasionally, perhaps once a week, it's more formal and they talk business
1864534;1540062711;Mocky;this is only done by qataris established enough to have own household
1864535;1540062792;Mocky;the vet doc has been invited 12 times. he said in the beginning he prepared things to say, ways to pitch business. but they never wanted to talk business with him, just playstation
1864536;1540062848;Mocky;"majlis" not majalis
1864537;1540063122;Mocky;the regular spots are mostly 5 star hotels on the water. St. Regis, The Four Seasons, The Pearl Qatar & Medina Centrale. Also there's some pickup beach volleyball at katara beach on fridays once the day cools off
1864538;1540063192;Mocky;men from a couple of the most powerful families hang out at a Costa coffee chain in the shittiest mall in the city
1864539;1540063209;Mocky;but that was suggested as not a good place to start
1864540;1540063347;Mocky;a chick unrelated to todays info breakfast also suggested the coffee bar in La Cigal Hotel
1864541;1540063909;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> i get the impression from other talks (not today) that there is no end of "i have great biz idea for importing from my home country india" being pitched << WTF does India export that people with options would buy?
1864542;1540063936;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: afaik -- pharma, ironwork.
1864543;1540063949;BingoBoingo;Very short list.
1864544;1540063971;asciilifeform;+ slaves.
1864545;1540063989;BingoBoingo;That's not an export, that's an educational charity
1864546;1540064061;Mocky;remember, it's indians coming up with those ideas so options dun enter into it
1864547;1540064341;BingoBoingo;<mats> reads like some qataris are like amateur daytraders << Kinda like early MPOE-PR era Bitcointalk
1864548;1540066342;Mocky;it could also be that the above descriptions have selection bias of young Qatari biznis noobs, or peripheral wot members
1864549;1540066445;Mocky;but so many nods around the table, makes me suspect flaws widely present, to some degree
1864550;1540066468;BingoBoingo;Well, I mean they could also be stuck on 80's US bzbs books
1864551;1540066831;Mocky;i also reached out to local bitcoin guy. turns out there are two. one sells other buys. I reached out the the seller but no response yet. The buyer doesn't have contact info listed and i don't have the bitcoin to answer his ad so haven't contacted yet.
1864552;1540067001;Mocky;theres also a "blockchain doha" group with 103 members, I can reach out to
1864553;1540067404;Mocky;I found out why cars are so nice toward pedestrians in the crosswalks. if you run a red, 3000 USD fine. cameras at most intersections
1864554;1540067529;Mocky;also huge fine if you stop past the "stop line". If you go over camera starts recording, tiny light flashes. if you reverse back to proper spot and wave your hand out the window showing submission at the camera, you don't get a ticket!
1864555;1540067655;Mocky;if you are a white woman or a doctor, cops very accommodating toward you, let you off tickets
1864556;1540067946;Mocky;even if you're a crazy ass vet doc who keeps getting into accidents by not looking
1864557;1540104878;Mocky;another thing was that Qatari business men highly value honesty since many foreign partners actually do try to rip them off and are deceptive.
1864558;1540104965;Mocky;word was that they may be angry if they feel forced to pay for an intangible, but that will fade and you don't lose respect. but get caught in a lie and they are done with you
1864559;1540105593;Mocky;I'm still not used to friday and saturday being the weekend & so many places being closed between 1pm and 4pm every day
1864560;1540144543;BingoBoingo;Still alive. Switched from crushing antibiotics to make a suspension to just returning to the pharmacy and buying appropriate amount of bubble gum flavored suspension for niños over the loud protests of elderly lady disenfranchised by the act.
1864561;1540144641;BingoBoingo;"Medicaciones para niños necessitan recetas" "Es para yo mismo. Llamé a mi medico."
1864562;1540146160;Mocky;BingoBoingo, isn't bubble gum flavor just as gross?
1864563;1540149015;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, don't they sell just pills to swallow?
1864564;1540149312;Mocky;so, working on day 3 of no AC. Everyone I mention it to here laughs at me and says that no repair men here actually know how to fix anything, only to install new. AC, cars, computers, machinery. They just spend hours spinning bs to talk you into buying new.
1864565;1540149392;diana_coman;see, that might be why "no intangibles" - because everyone selling intangibles there actually sells "bs to talk you into buying new"
1864566;1540149405;diana_coman;but is it *your* AC or what?
1864567;1540149488;Mocky;no, i'm subletting a room via airbnb from a nigerian who rents it from someone who also sounds african on speakerphone. and thankfully unseasonably cool with now 2 years worth of rain in the last 2 days
1864568;1540149540;diana_coman;sounds like a mess though
1864569;1540149615;Mocky;yeah, but not a big deal for me. I wouldn't want to be a landlord here tho
1864570;1540149647;diana_coman;but AC there is rather basic requirement, isn't it
1864571;1540149711;Mocky;yup, but seems like central air in homes is pretty rare. wallmounted units are the thing, with compressors on the roof.
1864572;1540149719;diana_coman;ah
1864573;1540149726;Mocky;So can be replaced individually i bet! lol
1864574;1540149749;diana_coman;sounds like it, yes, lol
1864575;1540151301;mircea_popescu;hhhola!
1864576;1540151409;Mocky;hiya mircea_popescu
1864577;1540151545;mircea_popescu;how's tricks
1864578;1540151898;Mocky;so far so good. gotta see how well I fit in at these 5 star hotels
1864579;1540151950;mircea_popescu;haha moving up in teh world ?
1864580;1540151953;*;mircea_popescu will get to the logs nao.
1864581;1540152361;BingoBoingo;<diana_coman> BingoBoingo, don't they sell just pills to swallow? << They do sell them, but at the moment with their size... they don't go down without fighting the surrounding environment
1864582;1540152428;BingoBoingo;And Gloria, the Peruana frowns upon breaking up the pills with oily pliers to make my own oral solution.
1864583;1540152542;Mocky;lol, why not stomp with boot heel :D
1864584;1540152593;BingoBoingo;Boot heel has touched dogshit. Hay muchos perros acá
1864585;1540156421;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864395 << lmao this guy.
1864586;1540156421;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 15:15 phf: you made it to a hookah bar then?
1864587;1540156424;mircea_popescu;nice going Mocky !
1864588;1540156789;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864422 << yeah, ideally no js, and write against lynx ftw.
1864589;1540156789;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:01 billymg: curious what type of browser environments the lords use -- when writing a theme for mp-wp will need to know what kind of font, css, js support to expect
1864590;1540156891;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864427 << nothing imported from google servers will ever work for me, for instance. so keep everything local. don't add more javascript. keep markup to the absolute minimum.
1864591;1540156891;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:04 billymg: is there perhaps a list of "definitely don't use [feature], will never load for republicans"
1864592;1540157019;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864445 << not so, was briefly dead but then adobe released a new set after 5+ years silence and it's catching back up.
1864593;1540157019;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:10 asciilifeform: lol afaik even the heathens have largely forgotten flashism
1864594;1540157056;mircea_popescu;because html5 was done by morons (ie, "community" in pantsuit style) and it couldn't be later or more useless (cue here, how opengl managed to LOSE its having defeated directx, a decade later)
1864595;1540157125;billymg;mircea_popescu: acknowledged, can definitely stay within those bounds
1864596;1540157135;mircea_popescu;cool.
1864597;1540158040;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864461 << this sounds like a recipe for certain failure...
1864598;1540158040;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:27 Mocky: because insurance was to expensive for the given coverage, but because "paying money to get nothing".
1864599;1540159124;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864463 << universal orc problem. in the space of one half hour saw three (out of five total) cars breaking down. WHY MAINTAIN ANYTHIUNG!!!! WHATY YOU CAN T SEE DOES NOT EXIST!!!
1864600;1540159124;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:28 asciilifeform: Mocky: is the implication also that they dun bother to look into totalcostofownership before buying ? hence the legends of bedouin sheiks buying a merc and leaving it in desert when fuel tank empty ..?
1864601;1540159169;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864468 << you're very much not there to sell anything ; you realise this, do you ?
1864602;1540159169;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:32 Mocky: diana_coman, that could be a reasonable assumption and i suggested the same to my companions, they shook thier heads.
1864603;1540159507;BingoBoingo;!Qlater tell bvt http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/djVz4/?raw=true
1864604;1540159507;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1864605;1540159602;BingoBoingo;!!invoice bvt 0.002 Shared Hosting, one month
1864606;1540159613;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/iGFgu/?raw=true
1864607;1540159659;BingoBoingo;!!v 7E704339402D43B05FD17BDD6804BDC6959C709CD7EC9AC49C5FB58316295803
1864608;1540159663;deedbot;Invoiced bvt 0.002 << Shared Hosting, one month
1864609;1540165106;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/african-style-call-and-response-leftist-provocation-ruining-senators-dinners/ << Qntra - African Style "Call And Response" Leftist Provocation Ruining Senator's Dinners
1864610;1540166451;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864592 << this is a mighty lul, i had genuinely nfi that this had happened
1864611;1540166451;a111;Logged on 2018-10-21 21:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864445 << not so, was briefly dead but then adobe released a new set after 5+ years silence and it's catching back up.
1864612;1540166462;asciilifeform;( what's next, internet exploder comes back.. )
1864613;1540166821;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, panzers! node zoolag will be going down for ssd upgrade in ~10m, for at least 1hr
1864614;1540168275;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864612 << of course, what else? http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-04#1780815
1864615;1540168275;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 00:01 asciilifeform: ( what's next, internet exploder comes back.. )
1864616;1540168275;a111;Logged on 2018-02-04 00:20 ben_vulpes: totally not a relabeled IE
1864617;1540181050;asciilifeform;achtung, panzers ! zoolag is nao back in service.
1864618;1540184271;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864601 >> there are some important things that are going to be brought to life by the republic and sure as shit they aren't gonna wait for Qatar to buy in. rather, if the outward appearance is correct and there are men of valor here who can recognize the opportunity then this will be their chance to play host to some business and profit exactly to the degree of their continued valor and foresight and not one riyal more
1864619;1540184271;a111;Logged on 2018-10-21 21:59 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864468 << you're very much not there to sell anything ; you realise this, do you ?
1864620;1540187701;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=61 << Bimbo.Club - For posterity
1864621;1540191755;bvt;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 1
1864622;1540191755;lobbesbot;bvt: Sent 8 hours and 57 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/djVz4/?raw=true
1864623;1540191764;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/x40zC/?raw=true
1864624;1540191792;bvt;!!v 314FFA01ECAE3BF4FD9863521D78063D3329D513BBF082B11172B54A17B8A7B3
1864625;1540191796;deedbot;bvt paid BingoBoingo invoice 1
1864626;1540191812;bvt;BingoBoingo: ty
1864627;1540192442;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=62 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 08/23/2018
1864628;1540201775;jurov;!!v 68CE9AA8A07E2E58149ED554C1F66977CA4247BEED4B84D1E53EAC44DC33C710
1864629;1540202292;jurov;!!v D6501B76142629F8BA195E6D012B636FFA3ECE2C2D2EAE7C9BB2719A55238146
1864630;1540202296;deedbot;jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 2
1864631;1540202405;jurov;^^ the first try was !!pay BingoBoingo 2
1864632;1540202430;jurov;which caused mild confusion as i don't have so much on the acct and deedbot said nothing
1864633;1540210679;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864612 << you may laugh, but at work we have a database access thingy that we have to use with Internet Explorer, because it doesn't work right when using other programs (the thing is a Microshit product)
1864634;1540210679;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 00:01 asciilifeform: ( what's next, internet exploder comes back.. )
1864635;1540210975;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07d-klausenburg.html << The Tar Pit - Klausenburg, et alia
1864636;1540216739;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864635 >> 'Romanian museum keepers are, with very, very, very few exceptions, a bunch of fucking orcs' >> verily. asciilifeform was in timis art gallery, and they offered tickets for extra penny 'take pictures', i gave'em. then i pull out camera, buncha old biddies immediately appear out of nowhere, like swarm of rats, stand in front of my lens like matrosov in front of german mg nest. finally i pul
1864637;1540216739;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 12:22 deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07d-klausenburg.html << The Tar Pit - Klausenburg, et alia
1864638;1540216739;asciilifeform;l the hand-written (!) ticket from pocket, wave at'em, they scatter.
1864639;1540217299;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque is http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/ still most recent cuntoo ? i got errything ready to bake cuntoo lappy ( the oddball lcd box; old ssd from zoolag ) ; should proceed or wait for update ? ty
1864640;1540217300;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1864641;1540217476;BingoBoingo;bvt: Thank you, let me now if you have any questions along the way.
1864642;1540217504;BingoBoingo;!!ledger
1864643;1540217512;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Aoxgu/?raw=true
1864644;1540217642;BingoBoingo;jurov: Can confirm that the "!!pay BingoBoingo 2" did not go through. Made a note to look out for it if it does pop up in my ledger at some point.
1864645;1540220907;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2018/10/tech-press-touting-latest-google-fritz-chip/#comment-119671
1864646;1540220945;asciilifeform;the 'blue wall of heathendom silence' breaks!111 :
1864647;1540220947;asciilifeform;'Register reader Stanislav writes in to inform us that the tech might not be so new and cutting edge, after all. In fact, he points to an analysis he wrote back in June detailing a similar set up on-chip security features that were going into Chromebooks'
1864648;1540220952;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Win!
1864649;1540221450;mircea_popescu;heh.
1864650;1540221484;mircea_popescu;IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT!!!
1864651;1540221610;asciilifeform;'even broom fires once'
1864652;1540221631;*;asciilifeform has been cycling the bolt and pulling trigger on that broom for yrs... this is 1st afaik round that fired
1864653;1540221812;mircea_popescu;this is rank nonsense. it fires almost every time. then Mommy comes along and generally spirits the young cunt away.
1864654;1540221820;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/metla.jpg << oblig
1864655;1540221822;mircea_popescu;but this is ABSOLUTELY no reason to stop talking to girlies.
1864656;1540221825;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly
1864657;1540221929;*;asciilifeform expects that piece will be replaced with 'the heavy cost of japanese toilets' or sumsuch , shortly..
1864658;1540221984;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864476 << this entire discussion is going kinda backwards. the idea is to buy ourselves some cheap qataris, not to sell them anything.
1864659;1540221984;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:34 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I don't think so; I think they would pay *you* that 500k if you manage to convince them that you are worth that for them
1864660;1540221991;mircea_popescu;who are they anyway ? human tech made for humans.
1864661;1540222022;asciilifeform;i had nfi there were 'cheap qataris'
1864662;1540222046;asciilifeform;iirc place consists of 100k barons and ~3mil india derps
1864663;1540222073;mircea_popescu;so a dozen of them barons then.
1864664;1540222260;*;asciilifeform does not know. so far knows only what Mocky ferreted out.
1864665;1540222341;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864487 << hey, i do it...
1864666;1540222341;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:40 Mocky: came across like simpleton management, decree whatever occurs to you, dilbert-esque pointy haired manager on steroids
1864667;1540222374;mircea_popescu;simpleton management best management (provided you have the requisite simpletons).
1864668;1540222511;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864490 << because etsy morons, trying to do the egyptian "fat white woman" (see ) thing except "Better". so they "live independently" as #metoo dumbcunts.
1864669;1540222511;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:41 diana_coman: so why are those people starting doggy rescue/care biznis in qatar of all places?
1864670;1540222584;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1852974 << item.
1864671;1540222584;a111;Logged on 2018-09-23 16:08 mircea_popescu: the ones who won out of the "go to the center of businessmen, pay for dialup modem by hour, write love letters to fat white women, get them to come over with money, build house at euro standards for tourist trade" lottery.
1864672;1540222610;mircea_popescu;though i thought i had much older description of same thing. but anyways.
1864673;1540222728;mircea_popescu;all the 30something should-have-been-in-chains femcrowd can think of these days is "animal rescue center". this generation's hairdressing salon, because it's literally the same biologically material reproduced across the decade gap.
1864674;1540222769;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw what's the intended profit model for those ? fat-rendering ?
1864675;1540222813;mircea_popescu;what was the profit model for the addidas-clad gopnic wife-and-girlfirned's "beauty parlor" ?
1864676;1540222826;asciilifeform;... cash laundry ?
1864677;1540222834;mircea_popescu;"well... it'll attract younger dumb cunts just like me, you can fuck them in the back. and it'll keep me busye enough to shut the fuck up"
1864678;1540222846;mircea_popescu;no gopnik ever said "how about you actually run a harem then", and so...
1864679;1540223024;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864658 -> ah, I was answering Stan there, not implying Mocky is there to sell anything
1864680;1540223024;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 15:26 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864476 << this entire discussion is going kinda backwards. the idea is to buy ourselves some cheap qataris, not to sell them anything.
1864681;1540223041;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought harem were sop in arabistan tho
1864682;1540223042;mircea_popescu;yeah... just got that vibe
1864683;1540223069;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform apparently special snowflake is sop in whitewomanistan, tho. i dunno, i care but slightly.
1864684;1540223095;asciilifeform;just how many 'white snowflakes' in qatar
1864685;1540223104;mircea_popescu;but there's a lengthy and well documented history of white woman being so far removed from the whip and restraint, she will stubornly do the -ev dumbthing "because it doesn't matter anyway" "i have my own oppinions and experiences" etc.
1864686;1540223129;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i suspect all the females he yet spoke with.
1864687;1540223233;asciilifeform;( so far from Mocky's description, picture seems like entire place consists of -- handful of natives, owning the petropipe, and much larger set of gastarbeiters servicing pipe + palaces + plumbing etc.; 0 agriculture, 0 industry, pipe economy, possibly ~0 lumpens, quite unlike mircea_popescu's egypt )
1864688;1540223270;mircea_popescu;well egypt is the larger arab state. qatar (with brunei and whatnot, oman) the smallest. so yes.
1864689;1540223313;diana_coman;in other news from the smg comms front: the rsa pack/unpack turned a bit nastier than the nice serpent because (of course!) of the C element; basically the rsa operations are in C (mpi mess) while the oaep is in Ada and the current eucrypt wrapper is fine but doing the ugly dance of C to Ada *and back*; my solution to this is to decree that there will be only ONE direction of calls namely from Ada to C (because Ada is the main, desired par
1864690;1540223313;diana_coman;t in there)
1864691;1540223330;mircea_popescu;we'll have to adaize rsa, for srs.
1864692;1540223365;*;asciilifeform back on that track, incidentally, shelved pretty much errything else
1864693;1540223367;diana_coman;yes, but preparing for that: wrappers in C for the methods so they don't export "mpi" shit but simply octets
1864694;1540223375;diana_coman;and then Ada will call those
1864695;1540223385;asciilifeform;i dunno that mine will ever be fast enuff for eulora without asm inline tho
1864696;1540223388;diana_coman;and everything will be called from Ada only, not the other way around
1864697;1540223411;diana_coman;but because of all this it's taking still a bit more time to get out the next chapter
1864698;1540223460;diana_coman;will probably cut it in 2 parts two, namely the wrappers first and then the whole big .vpatch bringing in everything needed (mpi, keccak, oaep-but-this-time-from-ada-only)
1864699;1540223512;asciilifeform;tho nao that i think about it, i could be wrong :
1864700;1540223517;asciilifeform;hrm where is that protocol page
1864701;1540223520;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform good.
1864702;1540223585;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, once this is in place, it should be relatively painless to swap at a later stage (whenever available) the C rsa/mpi for an Ada implementation since it's basically kept well separate
1864703;1540223590;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: precisely what length is the rsa key currently ?
1864704;1540223591;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1864705;1540223599;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you mean for eu ?
1864706;1540223602;asciilifeform;yes
1864707;1540223613;diana_coman;asciilifeform, 490 octets
1864708;1540223624;asciilifeform;3920 bit ?
1864709;1540223627;mircea_popescu;shorter than "general" format. eu uses 490byte, "we" use 512. that'd be the upper bound.
1864710;1540223651;diana_coman;asciilifeform, for eulora, yes
1864711;1540223696;mircea_popescu;yes 3920. http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#selection-555.55-555.59
1864712;1540223702;asciilifeform;got it, ty
1864713;1540223787;asciilifeform;soo from my pov it's still a 4096bit key ( my rsa worx strictly on powers of 2 )
1864714;1540223798;mircea_popescu;but imo, if you're going to put some kind of limit on it... make it 512
1864715;1540223804;mircea_popescu;right
1864716;1540223880;asciilifeform;my current best 4096bit modexp is still 22 sec. on the 'standard' test iron. but with barrett ( next ch. ) cuts down to ~5sec iirc; and with asm, hypothetically <1s
1864717;1540223899;asciilifeform;then again if rsa is only used to register new user, even the current proggy is conceivably fast enuff
1864718;1540223925;mircea_popescu;i agree.
1864719;1540223940;mircea_popescu;kinda built around all this.
1864720;1540224043;asciilifeform;most of asciilifeform's arithmatical massage is so that key ~gen~ can be carried out on human, rather than geologic, timescale
1864721;1540224102;mircea_popescu;o hai Mocky
1864722;1540224139;mircea_popescu;!!up Mocky
1864723;1540224140;deedbot;Mocky voiced for 30 minutes.
1864724;1540224192;Mocky;greetings
1864725;1540224194;asciilifeform;( btw for thread-completeness i gotta point out that asciilifeform spends most time on a rather slow box, that 22 is actually a 10 on recent x86 iron )
1864726;1540224223;asciilifeform;ohai Mocky
1864727;1540224324;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864492 << it's the fashionable thing, whatever.
1864728;1540224324;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:41 asciilifeform: diana_coman: ikr? it's the last thing i'd think of pitching to dar-al-islam
1864729;1540224395;diana_coman;I don't really see a problem from eulora's pov with 22 secs for rsa encrypt - it's not for in-game server-client communications so...
1864730;1540224425;asciilifeform;diana_coman: conceivably could get expensive if derps start spamming crapola user regs
1864731;1540224426;mircea_popescu;precisely why we put serpent in there, so alf can go pig wild with his intricate rsaing :D
1864732;1540224438;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's why it's "best effort" anyway.
1864733;1540224459;mircea_popescu;we already have a process whereby i can create an acct ; in the future i just won't care to use it for joe random is all.
1864734;1540224466;asciilifeform;rright but if it takes 22 sec to distinguish man from pig, and pig comes in at 10^7 packets/sec...
1864735;1540224471;diana_coman;re fashionable things - yes, quite; my thought there was that hmmm, those are therefore not exactly much of any sort of business people; etsy-style exactly, yes
1864736;1540224480;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform can just come in here, distinguish self.
1864737;1540224486;asciilifeform;that'd work
1864738;1540224488;mircea_popescu;the onus for anon to distinguish SELF from pig is on the anon in question.
1864739;1540224494;mircea_popescu;never on me jaysus.
1864740;1540224510;mircea_popescu;i think i even linked a fetlife discussion re this. "bitch, YOU are doing the work to see if you'd fit in my harem, not i. wtf!"
1864741;1540224521;asciilifeform;the box still gotta eat an rsa thing to establish 1st session, neh
1864742;1540224532;asciilifeform;tho hm i get it
1864743;1540224547;asciilifeform;can simply look up the expected key in curated db, prior to modexp
1864744;1540224587;asciilifeform;so yea slow rsa would in principle work even today.
1864745;1540224610;diana_coman;how's the AC, Mocky ?
1864746;1540224733;Mocky;still broke, but it still isnt' a problem. fan blows on me and I sleep fine. 3 day of rain in the dessert. got soaked today waiting for taxi for 30 minutes during downpour which stopped the moment i got in the cab
1864747;1540224737;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864509 << this is a dubious proposition, seeing how you don't have the cultural finesse to resolve disputes between orcs.
1864748;1540224737;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:47 Mocky: Being as the requirement for standard LLC is 51% Qatari ownership, this new info suggests to me that having two locals who split the 51% may be the way to go. They can still close it down but not at the whim of a single person.
1864749;1540224853;Mocky;I still have 4 leads to finish chasing down re not needing a Qatari to form a company. not necessarily promising leads but still need to get to the truth of them
1864750;1540224860;mircea_popescu;defo.
1864751;1540225114;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, diana_coman : '6.3. The server will issue type 5.2 messages encrypted to the corresponding client RSA key in response to any client messages for as long as it doesn't have a preferred client Serpent key set. The client is responsible for either maintaining or explicitly burning ~all~ of these, and will pay for them in any case' means that if a serpent key is currently set, serv won't issue another unless client explic
1864752;1540225114;asciilifeform;itly extinguishes the old ?
1864753;1540225275;mircea_popescu;can convey serpent keys over serpent too.
1864754;1540225297;asciilifeform;right
1864755;1540225351;asciilifeform;so then as i understand , rsa 'ddos' is not possible, i.e. 'allcomer' cannot force serv to perform a modexp simply by asking.
1864756;1540225383;mircea_popescu;right.
1864757;1540225397;asciilifeform;or rather, it can only be done in the (short) interval between the registration of new user's rsa pub, and his 1st session
1864758;1540225432;asciilifeform;or if somehow user extinguishes all of his serpent keys without immediately transmitting a replacement
1864759;1540225441;mircea_popescu;i'm really not that concerned with it.
1864760;1540225444;asciilifeform;( it is not currently obvious to me from the spec that this is not a legal op )
1864761;1540225452;mircea_popescu;there's mechanisms in place, forget abvout it.
1864762;1540225474;*;asciilifeform believes
1864763;1540225559;asciilifeform;and yea, makes sense, $spec is for ~client~, deliberately does not detail how spam control, i presume it's an in-house matter.
1864764;1540225562;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864516 << it is a fact that arab man makes the best friend ; wanna-be humans (like say russkis) manage to emulate this inb software, but usually takes lengthy prison stint together / trench time / whatever such exceptional circumstance. otherwise... rare.
1864765;1540225562;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:50 diana_coman: Mocky, I wonder though how much those burnt partners actually catered to the qatari partner as an ongoing relationship rather than just "he gives money for my biznis" (and how the hell is a charity a business, ugh)
1864766;1540225642;mircea_popescu;whereas #metoo-level tard is very "wordsmith" in her own mind, names and labesl and magic incantations all have incredible power and how would the world dare not conform! SHE WANTS A BETTER WORLD DID NOT SIGN UP FOR THIS.
1864767;1540225688;mircea_popescu;so i can readily see how and why this'd break down, and especially i can see why they'd register the specific complaint in the specific terminology with mocky. who knows, maybe bitcoin was made for their mula's stupid cunt, and maybe the republic is just pantsuitism++. maybe i sent mocky there to finallty right all "wrongs" ?
1864768;1540225692;mircea_popescu;jesusmocky.
1864769;1540225716;asciilifeform;lol!
1864770;1540225809;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864523 << is it still the 90s ? "rolex" still counts for "Flashy" somewhere ?
1864771;1540225809;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 18:53 Mocky: asciilifeform, this I haven't heard, but flashy stuff like rolex, lambos, bentleys I have heard
1864772;1540225829;*;mircea_popescu has not worn wristwatch in like decade+ now... who still does ? why would they ?
1864773;1540225863;Mocky;well when everyone wears the exact same white robes everyday, a watch is pretty much only place on the body for bling
1864774;1540225865;mircea_popescu;bitch srsly need to tell time for some reason, because wherever they're going ain't gonna just wait till they get there anyway or what is it, no woman in a loose fitted top about to point out "hey, we should get going if we're ever going to make X" ?
1864775;1540225865;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if pete_dushenski was to be believed, rolex per se is 100% chump market item in recent yrs, strictly for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1852974 people
1864776;1540225865;a111;Logged on 2018-09-23 16:08 mircea_popescu: the ones who won out of the "go to the center of businessmen, pay for dialup modem by hour, write love letters to fat white women, get them to come over with money, build house at euro standards for tourist trade" lottery.
1864777;1540225932;mircea_popescu;Mocky maybe you should start a crown trend.
1864778;1540225947;Mocky;i'm not wise to the ways of watches, wouldn't recognize a rolex. "shiny watch" works for my description
1864779;1540225961;mircea_popescu;nothing says "king of the world" quite like wearing 20lbs of lightning rod on head.
1864780;1540225964;Mocky;i'd fucking rock a crown
1864781;1540225975;asciilifeform;heat sink!111
1864782;1540225984;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform except it sinks the wrong way lmao
1864783;1540225989;mircea_popescu;heat shitfountain morelike it.
1864784;1540226002;asciilifeform;well you stick fan on it, so it sinks 'right way', neh
1864785;1540226017;mircea_popescu;Mocky srsly now, these uber-elaborate heatsink-like items made to wear on head, out of 22 carat gold... could be a trent.
1864786;1540226024;asciilifeform;( + peltier!11 )
1864787;1540226052;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform plus if it's a nice looking hedgehog could headbutt someone for max payne.
1864788;1540226062;asciilifeform;easily, with the red-hot biznis end
1864789;1540226070;asciilifeform;tschsssss.
1864790;1540226078;mircea_popescu;hey, disinfects as it wounds.
1864791;1540226078;Mocky;lol
1864792;1540226089;asciilifeform;put brand on it.
1864793;1540226120;mircea_popescu;ahaha epic.
1864794;1540226215;Mocky;https://christopherpierznik.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/ll-cool-j.jpg
1864795;1540226235;asciilifeform;re 'rolex' etc -- i've only ever seen'em on (usually) arab orcs ~in usa~ . they dun actually look at the time, lol, i suspect they dun even set the thing, it's strictly part of 'gentleman's uniform', by their lights, like sword used to be
1864796;1540226278;Mocky;*lots* of jewelry stores here with shiny watches
1864797;1540226376;asciilifeform;there was an old mircea_popescu piece with gypsies living in abandoned tunnels, where they had a desk fulla old sov-era phones, with 0 wiring, strictly for 'rolexism'
1864798;1540226390;Mocky;to my eyes, uniform includes shiny watch and a landrover, or lexus suv (with which to intimidate slave labor on the roadway)
1864799;1540226454;Mocky;vehicle size seems a status symbol. "if a bigger one is speeding up from behind, get out of the way!"
1864800;1540226491;Mocky;also, that could be good advice in general
1864801;1540226580;mircea_popescu;it's a wonder they don't drive busses,
1864802;1540226617;mircea_popescu;fuck, put some hinges on old airbus at the wings, drive THAT. not only big but also fucken tall! and it can flap its wings!
1864803;1540226756;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> still broke, but it still isnt' a problem. fan blows on me and I sleep fine. 3 day of rain in the dessert. got soaked today waiting for taxi for 30 minutes during downpour which stopped the moment i got in the cab << The incredible similarities to Uruguay
1864804;1540226873;Mocky;if I had my ford expedition here, I'd be the king of the road. land rovers are a good bit smaller
1864805;1540226907;BingoBoingo;There's landrovers here too, and the doinky commercial trucks... No big rigs here
1864806;1540226929;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864770 << It's obvious they haven't caught up to pete_dushenski yet
1864807;1540226929;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 16:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864523 << is it still the 90s ? "rolex" still counts for "Flashy" somewhere ?
1864808;1540226957;Mocky;all the cars here are normal models you'd find in the us, except there are a few toyota models I've never heard of: "fortuner" is one
1864809;1540226978;Mocky;and some vw looking toyota busses
1864810;1540227007;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it wouldn't surprise me if 'rolex watch' is eventually displaced by a wrist-strapped gold brick stamped with word 'rolex' or some other such substitute. sorta how gentleman swords were replaced with jewel-encrusted lolsticks prior to vanishing entirely
1864811;1540227014;Mocky;unlike london where I coudn't place any cars
1864812;1540227030;BingoBoingo;Ah, no Chinese cars?
1864813;1540227047;Mocky;asciilifeform, I was told they have gold brick atms here
1864814;1540227054;asciilifeform;aha! so yes like dubai
1864815;1540227061;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864784 << Don't forget to shave and lube head for good thermal contact
1864816;1540227061;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 16:33 asciilifeform: well you stick fan on it, so it sinks 'right way', neh
1864817;1540227078;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: why wouldja expect chinese cars in a place where only moneyed folx and their liveried servants get driver license
1864818;1540227094;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the jewel-encrusted lolsticks still packed some bite. it's just they packed an urban bite.
1864819;1540227117;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well what are the Uber taxi-ists going to drive?
1864820;1540227123;mircea_popescu;problem was very much "what does useless son say to city guard" "oh, it's for decor" "not for stabbing other cicisbeos ?" "well... not usually..."
1864821;1540227130;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i.e. for whacking uppity lackey, rather than other sword ?
1864822;1540227142;mircea_popescu;for whacking other guy encountered unexpectedly under moonlight
1864823;1540227164;mircea_popescu;oh! juliet! oh romeo! what did you say bitch ?!
1864824;1540227196;asciilifeform;rright but what if other-guy pulls an actual sword
1864825;1540227225;asciilifeform;( or brace o'pistols )
1864826;1540227226;mircea_popescu;but getting back to the hinged-wing airbus thread : you could also add a modified horn... some hydraulics...
1864827;1540227236;mircea_popescu;i suspect if you drove that on the highway at night most people would just park the car and go out
1864828;1540227240;mircea_popescu;wander into the wilderness
1864829;1540227255;mircea_popescu;muttering "i saw some things man... i can't tell anyone the things i saw..."
1864830;1540227266;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dun forget the blinker-siren
1864831;1540227277;asciilifeform;( no moneyed orcmobile is complete without blinker-siren )
1864832;1540227289;mircea_popescu;police picking them up, you know, "you ok sr ?" "i'm fine. i'm fine. it's ok." "did you see a huge clucking airplane coming behind you flapping its wings, hopping up and down and clucking ?!"
1864833;1540227310;asciilifeform;!#s ekranoplan
1864834;1540227310;a111;3 results for "ekranoplan", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ekranoplan
1864835;1540227315;asciilifeform;^ ideal vehicle for this
1864836;1540227317;mircea_popescu;top keks to be had.
1864837;1540227335;asciilifeform;( late-su made ~exactly mircea_popescu's winged-bus thing )
1864838;1540227374;mircea_popescu;heh.
1864839;1540227413;asciilifeform;went ~4 metres height .
1864840;1540227448;asciilifeform;iirc was conceived as a sea-going thing, but wai not adapt to modern market!11
1864841;1540227483;mircea_popescu;find the spruce goose in the hangar somewhere while at it, whainot
1864842;1540227508;asciilifeform;pretty sure it's still where h. hughes parked it, lol
1864843;1540227925;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864531 << usg influence. ie precisely what must be uprooted.
1864844;1540227925;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 19:03 Mocky: bitcoin is also illegal for banks to exchange in. which apparently some wanted to do but now central bank authority has banned
1864845;1540227951;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864532 << hey wd, you're on the right track exactly.
1864846;1540227951;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 19:10 Mocky: re meeting Qataris, I found that 30-something aged men interested in business hang out at certain places on a daily basis. if you go and hang there and get to know them, if they like you they may invite you to majalis. which is the regular practice of closing off half of the home from women in the evening and doing man cave shit
1864847;1540228004;mircea_popescu;tell them about bdsm an' you've got the whole set-up.
1864848;1540228011;asciilifeform;possibly naively, i thought ~all~ centralbanks hate btc, (e.g. cn's), not merely usg-muppet ones ?
1864849;1540228063;Mocky;"volatility" "use in malware attacks" stated reasons
1864850;1540228071;asciilifeform;lol!
1864851;1540228081;mircea_popescu;this guy tho... you've been there two weeks, you already picked up the scent ? not bad.
1864852;1540228122;mircea_popescu;i dunno who told you to spend your life on fucking java of all things.
1864853;1540228132;Mocky;mircea_popescu, yeah next chapter titled "depeche mode at the four seasons"
1864854;1540228138;mircea_popescu;keks
1864855;1540228141;asciilifeform;java?!
1864856;1540228163;asciilifeform;Mocky you're an escapee from java salt mine ?!
1864857;1540228168;Mocky;i've been doing java for 20 years
1864858;1540228172;*;asciilifeform takes off hat
1864859;1540228184;mircea_popescu;i am not kidding -- go to their house, explain what bdsm is, "looky what this guy i know does with the white women ~he owns~". they'll listen to that in preference of fucking playstation.
1864860;1540228208;Mocky;i don't know shit about bdsm
1864861;1540228234;mircea_popescu;hey, you've been hanging out in there / reading trilema, what did you think that class was for ?
1864862;1540228243;mircea_popescu;LA CE IMI SERVESTE MIE RADICALURILE ?!?!?!
1864863;1540228248;mircea_popescu;just in case you end up in qatar, that's what.
1864864;1540228276;Mocky;maybe if i had couple girls to polish the dust off my crown as i walk from the bar to the pool...
1864865;1540228288;mircea_popescu;nah, too much pressure. your line is "this guy i know".
1864866;1540228309;mircea_popescu;you don't smell like "this guy i am". not yet at any rate, if ever at all.
1864867;1540228346;Mocky;pretty sure I smell like old married guy, lol
1864868;1540228351;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1864869;1540228356;mircea_popescu;they can relate to that :)
1864870;1540228385;mircea_popescu;which is how all woods are cut, you understand. a metal bit with an edge attached to a wooden bit they can relate to.
1864871;1540228585;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, "all". but because all are trying to "not get fired by buying ibm" and their idea of "ibm" is http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/#selection-121.0-125.255 ; and THAT is specifically what must be uprooted.
1864872;1540228609;mircea_popescu;the idea that the us has anything meaningful or important to say to the world belongs exactly same place microsoft belongs, and exactly for the same reason.
1864873;1540228636;mircea_popescu;and this goes the full spectrum, from furries&trannies to ows&bernie sandals to "internet security" to bridgebuilding "technologies" and other haliburtons.
1864874;1540228640;asciilifeform;soo per this model, cn central bank fatwas btc because -- even there -- miami dreamers ?
1864875;1540228641;mircea_popescu;shut the shit down.
1864876;1540228647;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes.
1864877;1540228670;asciilifeform;( and not because it interferes with their attempt to run usg-style printing press ..? )
1864878;1540228677;mircea_popescu;a different kind -- impersonal, they don't want to "Escape to there", but still.
1864879;1540228740;asciilifeform;plox to expand for enlightenment -- how does 'impersonal miami' work
1864880;1540228815;asciilifeform;( re 'furries & trannies' -- there is a hilarious wankfest going, somebody spread rumour that trump is plotting to cancel, somehow, Official recognition of trannieism, all sortsa usual suspects are busy filling their pants as we speak )
1864881;1540229085;Mocky;oh hey, the 3 indians return with a new ac unit 8:30pm. now arguing with my nigerian host over having brought a different brand
1864882;1540229092;Mocky;this should be fun
1864883;1540229137;Mocky;considering that they are too short to reach the unit and put ladder on my bed to reach the install point!
1864884;1540229154;Mocky;and upgrade from the chair they used the first time
1864885;1540229259;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not rumor afaik.
1864886;1540229273;asciilifeform;oh ha
1864887;1540229291;asciilifeform;sounds like the making of a 3ring circus then
1864888;1540229294;mircea_popescu;he's rehauling the "obamacare" health bs. which he was fucking voted in to do. snipping all sorts of blue nonsense in the paybook, including surgery for disphorists.
1864889;1540229308;asciilifeform;lol i actually had nfi that were in there
1864890;1540229326;mircea_popescu;why the fuck do you think the hot air circus even exists?
1864891;1540229341;mircea_popescu;all the redditards are doing that WHILE AT WORK. if the govt didn't pay peons to blue, whod the fuck would ?
1864892;1540229348;mircea_popescu;not like anyone genuninely believes i nthe crap.
1864893;1540229397;mircea_popescu;the pantsuited hilarity herself both knew and said as much, their entire line during elections is "this pays better". and their constant fretful midging on their own "sikrit" comms was all about hiow "apparently people don't care being paid to be stupid nets them slightly more than what they could get on own not being stupid".
1864894;1540229623;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf in bolix lulz : loox like dks relisted that 'ivory' for 3rd time nao... apparently not so many eager-worth-of-$5k archaeologists any moar
1864895;1540229623;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1864896;1540229636;Mocky;lol they promised "samsung AC" but brought brandless chinesium claiming "this is the expensive one"
1864897;1540229673;BingoBoingo;Is it a Panavox?
1864898;1540229683;asciilifeform;Mocky: BingoBoingostan seemed to be ~solid samsung all over
1864899;1540229693;Mocky;"AR General Cool" lol
1864900;1540229701;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: panavox, lol! 'durasell'
1864901;1540229721;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-13#716070 << subj )
1864902;1540229721;a111;Logged on 2014-06-13 01:21 asciilifeform: 'durasell' is a chinese battery (with correct colour scheme) sold at 'dollar stores'
1864903;1540229734;asciilifeform;i've also encountered 'parasonic' and similar lulz
1864904;1540229749;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Nah, only the fancy stuff is Samsung. Everything else Panavox or weird Euro brands that opted out of the 120v nonsense.
1864905;1540229768;Mocky;i feel bad for my host, trying to get my ac fixed while dealing with these clowns, and thinks i'm just being gracious by saying it's not been bothering me
1864906;1540229785;*;BingoBoingo rarity in Uruguay, only Panavox product is the fridge
1864907;1540230110;Mocky;in other observations, social pantsuits stand out like a sore thumb here. they can't stomach the "racism" "classism" "mistreatment" "conditions for local women". it's a constant irritant to them, they can't figure out how anyone here sleeps at night being party to such things
1864908;1540230142;Mocky;they live in constant misery, mostly leaving after a short time
1864909;1540230358;Mocky;i dont' know what these interior walls are made of but they are prying nails out with hammer without damaging it. def not like back home
1864910;1540230460;BingoBoingo;Concrete?
1864911;1540230658;asciilifeform;lol nails in concrete
1864912;1540230662;Mocky;they say it's not concrete, that only exterior walls are concrete. but it looks and feels like concrete to me. i can't understand what they are calling it, "tabukla" ?
1864913;1540230664;asciilifeform;prolly plaster
1864914;1540230713;Mocky;could be plaster over cinder block
1864915;1540230721;asciilifeform;Mocky: y'know, what interior walls usedto be made of before drywallism
1864916;1540230798;Mocky;i've lived in a couple old houses with ancient plaster. it would chip and crumble pretty easily
1864917;1540230845;asciilifeform;Mocky: in my old flat, not only did not crumble, but broke several drill bits when fiber was installed (which i had to do with own hands, lol)
1864918;1540230861;asciilifeform;early 1900s place
1864919;1540230891;asciilifeform;( house was... ex-bordello, according to local lore )
1864920;1540230900;Mocky;lol
1864921;1540230919;asciilifeform;( and, extra lulzily, used to be at... different end of street. at one time in usa they knew how to move houses. )
1864922;1540230931;Mocky;place i was in had 1940's newspaper in the walls
1864923;1540230997;mircea_popescu;Mocky you ever saw my horror ac pics from argentina ?
1864924;1540231043;Mocky;i don't recall it
1864925;1540231580;mircea_popescu;well apparently i can't find it anymore, but anyway, ac unit 100% filled with styrofoam. was pretty rich.
1864926;1540231583;mircea_popescu;"repaired".
1864927;1540231840;Mocky;heh
1864928;1540231879;asciilifeform;hey, gotta have the foam for neutron tamper!11
1864929;1540231889;asciilifeform;( or was that a different 'industria argentina' product..)
1864930;1540232058;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque http://trinque.org/cuntoo.tar.gz 404's
1864931;1540232058;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1864932;1540232557;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864551 << how much do you need for that ?
1864933;1540232557;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 20:20 Mocky: i also reached out to local bitcoin guy. turns out there are two. one sells other buys. I reached out the the seller but no response yet. The buyer doesn't have contact info listed and i don't have the bitcoin to answer his ad so haven't contacted yet.
1864934;1540232588;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864552 << i expect waste of time ; but in the interest of crossing all bitcoin embassies off the list...
1864935;1540232588;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 20:23 Mocky: theres also a "blockchain doha" group with 103 members, I can reach out to
1864936;1540232672;Mocky;I'm going to try buying a benjie's worth from one and selling it the other just to meet them
1864937;1540232723;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864561 << mi mismo. don't ask why, it doesn't make anymore sense if explained, either.
1864938;1540232723;a111;Logged on 2018-10-21 17:57 BingoBoingo: "Medicaciones para niños necessitan recetas" "Es para yo mismo. Llamé a mi medico."
1864939;1540232742;mircea_popescu;!!pay Mocky 0.1
1864940;1540232747;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/K3gcX/?raw=true
1864941;1540232753;mircea_popescu;Mocky i'm too lazy to type more digits.
1864942;1540232761;Mocky;no, i have it on me. no need
1864943;1540232771;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1864944;1540232793;mircea_popescu;ah don't be silly, use the dime.
1864945;1540232810;Mocky;fine
1864946;1540232850;mircea_popescu;you don't want to meet people over a hundred anyway
1864947;1540232857;mircea_popescu;especially there, apparently, from the tales.
1864948;1540232873;Mocky;re blockchainers, im going to try to get them to schedule an event with me as the speaker
1864949;1540232875;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I didn't ask why. The bearded fellow behind the counter who looked as though he could have been cast as an above average banana republic general in Hollywood promptly shut her up dispensed the product.
1864950;1540232889;mircea_popescu;no i mean, why "mi mismo" rather than "yo mismo"
1864951;1540232893;BingoBoingo;AH
1864952;1540232900;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what do they do, whack you with scimitar and stretch fresh camel's stomach over yer shaved head, and leave hogtied to dry in the desert ?
1864953;1540232911;mircea_popescu;who ?
1864954;1540232912;asciilifeform;( re 'stories' )
1864955;1540232920;mircea_popescu;i meant what he's been telling.
1864956;1540232922;asciilifeform;aa
1864957;1540233007;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864567 << aaahahahahaha
1864958;1540233007;a111;Logged on 2018-10-21 19:18 Mocky: no, i'm subletting a room via airbnb from a nigerian who rents it from someone who also sounds african on speakerphone. and thankfully unseasonably cool with now 2 years worth of rain in the last 2 days
1864959;1540233017;mircea_popescu;jesus christ he's bought a room from a nigerian prince.
1864960;1540233026;mircea_popescu;i think now we've officially done everything.
1864961;1540233061;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864571 << this is so fucking stupid, ftr. i can't conceive why one wouldn't put in central air if needs air conditionning.
1864962;1540233061;a111;Logged on 2018-10-21 19:21 Mocky: yup, but seems like central air in homes is pretty rare. wallmounted units are the thing, with compressors on the roof.
1864963;1540233074;mircea_popescu;do their malls also have ten bn wallmouinted units ?
1864964;1540233091;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the uruguay folx, do !!
1864965;1540233107;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo's rooftop, had -- coupla dozen little samsung compressors
1864966;1540233112;asciilifeform;1 for erry room, i think.
1864967;1540233113;BingoBoingo;^
1864968;1540233115;asciilifeform;hotel likewise
1864969;1540233118;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864578 << wait, is this in reference to the meet-up things ?
1864970;1540233118;a111;Logged on 2018-10-21 19:58 Mocky: so far so good. gotta see how well I fit in at these 5 star hotels
1864971;1540233140;Mocky;most malls here are posh, yeah, central air
1864972;1540233143;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is so fucking dumb omg. central air costs 2x to install and 0.5x to run for the lifetime of the thing. A DEGREE OF MAGNITUDE SAVINGS
1864973;1540233144;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: There is one rooftop unit for every indoor unit
1864974;1540233160;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: rrright but that requires an orc who can maintain central plant
1864975;1540233170;asciilifeform;whereas the samsungs, i expect, are treated as ~disposables
1864976;1540233179;BingoBoingo;The mall actually has central air, but it is still turned to produce heat
1864977;1540233180;mircea_popescu;cuz what the fuck maintenance does it need, jaysus. they come encapsulated, like modern engines.
1864978;1540233188;Mocky;mircea_popescu, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864537
1864979;1540233188;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 19:18 Mocky: the regular spots are mostly 5 star hotels on the water. St. Regis, The Four Seasons, The Pearl Qatar & Medina Centrale. Also there's some pickup beach volleyball at katara beach on fridays once the day cools off
1864980;1540233193;mircea_popescu;right. coo.
1864981;1540233208;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if installed correctly, good for 20 yrs, yes. but! needs an orc who can install correctly..
1864982;1540233226;mircea_popescu;sad.
1864983;1540233237;asciilifeform;and! and! an orc client who actually changes the filters
1864984;1540233249;mircea_popescu;there is that.
1864985;1540233259;mircea_popescu;perfect way to ruin 500k in gear, by "forgetting" about 50 bucks maintenance.
1864986;1540233263;asciilifeform;and ductwork gotta be cleaned at least erry odd decade, or you get interesting things growing therin
1864987;1540233275;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not there. they don't even have moths, there.
1864988;1540233286;mircea_popescu;that's the thing, dry air is SO the perfecvt appliocation here.
1864989;1540233297;asciilifeform;right, no moths in desert. but i expect qataris will defo not change filter, 'out of principle'
1864990;1540233301;mircea_popescu;it's almost sad to waste the opportunity, you know ?
1864991;1540233326;BingoBoingo;Qatar sounds like the perfect place to use swamp coolers
1864992;1540233334;mircea_popescu;feels kinda like having the perfect joke for a set-up and then... not using it.
1864993;1540233337;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: iirc water expensive
1864994;1540233359;BingoBoingo;Pretty sure you can do a swamp cooler with Petrol instead
1864995;1540233364;asciilifeform;ugh
1864996;1540233376;asciilifeform;will work 'great' in errybody-smokes land
1864997;1540233382;Mocky;qataris have maid, nanny, gardener, driver, tutor, butler pretty sure one could have 'change filter' on worklist
1864998;1540233400;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864618 << right.
1864999;1540233400;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 04:57 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864601 >> there are some important things that are going to be brought to life by the republic and sure as shit they aren't gonna wait for Qatar to buy in. rather, if the outward appearance is correct and there are men of valor here who can recognize the opportunity then this will be their chance to play host to some business and profit exactly to the degree of their continued valor and foresight and not one riyal more
1865000;1540233455;mircea_popescu;Mocky the other humongo advantage of getting a central air plant instead of the piddly shits is that THEN you can get clean room at no extra cost.
1865001;1540233491;mircea_popescu;"but mp, why would anyone want that!!" "i dunno, same reason anyone would want a large icebox" "inconceivabru. the global market for cars is maybe 12 units."
1865002;1540233508;asciilifeform;either that or smoke all the hookahs in the building 'for phree'
1865003;1540233539;Mocky;maybe qataris have central air and only orc horde has room units, haven't been there yet
1865004;1540233541;mircea_popescu;i don't get it, this is different with miniunits ?
1865005;1540233563;asciilifeform;mini only circulates air in the room it lives in
1865006;1540233571;mircea_popescu;except if he opens a door ?
1865007;1540233574;asciilifeform;aha
1865008;1540233592;mircea_popescu;how would ac unit solve the problem of unwashed co-dweller ? seems the application for that is a lock rather.
1865009;1540233606;mircea_popescu;don't let them in, problem solved.
1865010;1540233629;asciilifeform;it doesn't. was pointing out that you dun get 'clean room' simply from central air pump. at least none of the ones i've used, even with the fancy electrostatic trap thing.
1865011;1540233657;mircea_popescu;i mean, since you have the pumping infrastructure, costs comparatively little to isolate one room and do w/e in there, microscopy.
1865012;1540233670;mircea_popescu;if you didn't have that infrastructure, you might balk at buying it just for a hobby.
1865013;1540233690;mircea_popescu;but with current tech, and given airplant already there, making a den into a clean room is entirely hobby budget.
1865014;1540233732;*;asciilifeform doesn't have a 'clean room' in the chip fab sense, but did install a multistage circulating filter thing in machine room, it actually worx pretty well re cutting downtime for fan cleanings etc
1865015;1540233747;mircea_popescu;(this wouldn't be a very high standard clean room, but 80s level tech quite achievable. whole shtick is to have the controlled airlflow, pressurizing the room.)
1865016;1540233750;Mocky;also, central air units don't feed the chumpatron. room units: huge market constantly turning, repairmen "fixing", "workers" installing, refurbishers
1865017;1540233773;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: main dust src in practice is... the human. rather than external air.
1865018;1540233782;asciilifeform;sorta why in the fabs they wear the cosmonautical gear.
1865019;1540233788;mircea_popescu;yes, but with correct airflow it's self-cleanning.
1865020;1540233798;mircea_popescu;which is the point here.
1865021;1540233944;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1864631 << this thing...
1865022;1540233944;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 10:00 jurov: ^^ the first try was !!pay BingoBoingo 2
1865023;1540234013;mircea_popescu;omg, done with log ? sweet.
1865024;1540234053;billymg;trinque: first post ready for review/feedback http://161.0.121.194/?p=4
1865025;1540234073;mircea_popescu;bare ip addressing huh ?
1865026;1540234098;billymg;i have billymg.com as well but i'm not sure if that's what i want to use yet
1865027;1540234157;billymg;i also made some very minor tweaks to the default theme's css, mostly for my own sake
1865028;1540234213;asciilifeform;billymg: pretty neat !
1865029;1540234234;billymg;thanks! :D
1865030;1540234313;billymg;i realized while writing that the middle portion sort of veers away from "guide" and more into "retrospective" format but figured it would be best to just get something out for people to read/comment on
1865031;1540234346;billymg;i.e. the part where i get stuck fighting with portage while trying to install php
1865032;1540234926;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/us-firm-facebook-interfering-in-brazils-presidential-election/ << Qntra - US Firm "Facebook" Interfering In Brazil's Presidential Election
1865033;1540234928;BingoBoingo;^ Meanwhile in foreign election meddling
1865034;1540235168;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo "unregistered foreign influence agent" being the specialist term.
1865035;1540235309;BingoBoingo;It's Brasil, discerning whether or not they registered is probably a six month process
1865036;1540235374;mircea_popescu;heh
1865037;1540235477;lobbes;TMSR: auctionbot is now voiced and now sitting in #trilema
1865038;1540235488;lobbes;!Xview 1000
1865039;1540235489;auctionbot;Sell order #  1000: Reserved Opened at: 1 ecu Winning Bid: None [Closed]
1865040;1540235504;lobbes;I'll keep my eyeballs peeled for any funky behavior
1865041;1540235510;*;lobbes bbl meatworld
1865042;1540235537;mircea_popescu;nice!
1865043;1540236355;BingoBoingo;!!rate billymg 1 The New Yorker
1865044;1540236358;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Loaac/?raw=true
1865045;1540236393;BingoBoingo;!!v 5451628E9058DCF45EC2D1CFFFF6CF08E81D281E4A9FE1000022311975EB7E8B
1865046;1540236394;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated billymg 1 << The New Yorker
1865047;1540238293;lobbes;hey nice work on the mp-wp guide billymg
1865048;1540238297;lobbes;btw, if you end up needing it I have a guide out on how to configure apache to handle bot spam directed at your blog >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/arming-your-arm64-rockchip-gentoo-against-the-hordes-of-mindless-bots/
1865049;1540238306;lobbes;though nowadays the rockchip kernels in the pizarro plant have iptables enabled, so you now have a couple of options for crossing that bridge if you come to it
1865050;1540238423;asciilifeform;lobbes: imho a 100%-adatronic thing that could serve http and dish up blog etc. without dragging in apache.nginx,php,sql,etc., would rock. but sadly i dun have anything like the # of free hands for such a thing currently
1865051;1540238449;asciilifeform;tho i suspect it would be simpler mechanism than on the surface it appears.
1865052;1540238574;lobbes;hm interesting. I too have hands tied up but have been meaning to get a few chapters of ffa under my belt. I'll jot this idea down for far off in the conveyor if someone else doesn't get to it first (and by all means, Someone: feel free to beat me to this punch)
1865053;1540238593;lobbes;it would be an interesting project to learn some basic ada with
1865054;1540238597;asciilifeform;it is far on the conveyor, i suspect
1865055;1540238690;lobbes;on my conveyor, absolutely. I still need to 1) finish de-heathenizing lobbesbot's functions 2) redo #eulora logs 3) get auxiliary #pizarro logs up 4) probably something I'm forgetting
1865056;1540238720;lobbes;oy the price history stuff too, tickerbot
1865057;1540238745;lobbes;perhaps one of these promising noobs can take on..
1865058;1540238778;asciilifeform;lobbes: what i meant was, there is long list of actually urgent proggies, this one's definitely a luxury; thus far ~errybody is living with mp-wp and not particularly sad
1865059;1540238814;lobbes;asciilifeform: aa yea. this is true
1865060;1540238829;asciilifeform;but, for instance, i dun have php on dulap, and like it that way
1865061;1540238853;asciilifeform;'9000' php-diddling lolnets knock on the door futilely erry day, it is hilarious to watch
1865062;1540238896;lobbes;would be a nice luxury to have. Every time I've used php, I wished I wasn't using
1865063;1540239002;asciilifeform;would be pretty great if instruction to 'i want blog' n00b wasn't 'install this here 200MB of ??? liquishit', but instead 'build this here 100kB ada'.
1865064;1540239074;Mocky;i can't stomach php, which probably sounds rich coming from hardcore java dude. my www is static files and one old school cgi to python for comments
1865065;1540239187;asciilifeform;Mocky: i think i've yet to meet somebody who wouldn't rather write msdos batch script, than php..
1865066;1540239394;Mocky;I've met a ton of excel lovers who think php is fantastic. seems to appeal greatly to a certain type
1865067;1540239428;Mocky;vb "programmers"
1865068;1540239429;asciilifeform;i suspect quite a bit of the 'arbitrary substitutions for style dressing' that folx expect from blog engine, are not actually necessary; just how often does one fiddle with the dressings.
1865069;1540239446;asciilifeform;bake it into the proggy.
1865070;1540239609;Mocky;only rarely fiddled with if you have actual things to do, fiddled endlessly when activity substitutes for usefulness
1865071;1540239618;asciilifeform;put the dressing in blog.ads as constants and be done with it. when erry couple of yrs you feel like twiddling the bg colour or somesuch -- it's a 10sec recompile, wat.
1865072;1540239680;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865025 << added DNS http://billymg.com
1865073;1540239680;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 18:47 mircea_popescu: bare ip addressing huh ?
1865074;1540239707;billymg;lobbes: what does the tickerbot entail?
1865075;1540239718;asciilifeform;billymg: most folx here use hand-curated /etc/hosts ; dns is largely for giving links to heathens
1865076;1540239770;asciilifeform;billymg: ( trb, for instance, doesn't even support dns lookup. i cut it with own hands; eats bare ip. )
1865077;1540239816;asciilifeform;billymg: http://trilema.com/2016/please-stop-using-dns-already-and-other-considerations/ << canonical pg on the subj
1865078;1540239876;asciilifeform;dns is a decorative thing, e.g. asciilifeform , mircea_popescu , have dns names for www , but really ought to remember that it is decorative .
1865079;1540239902;billymg;asciilifeform: ah, makes sense
1865080;1540239921;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865071 >> I'm totally with you on that. I already "recompile" my whole site from src ascii docs when publishing every post and takes more than 10s
1865081;1540239921;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 20:20 asciilifeform: put the dressing in blog.ads as constants and be done with it. when erry couple of yrs you feel like twiddling the bg colour or somesuch -- it's a 10sec recompile, wat.
1865082;1540240127;billymg;Mocky: sort of a hand-rolled "static site generator"? i've used jekyll in the past and from what i remember this is how it worked
1865083;1540240146;mircea_popescu;honestly php seems a problem that least needs fixing right now.
1865084;1540240161;mircea_popescu;trilema ran for a decade on a lamp stack to no serious detriment.
1865085;1540240167;*;asciilifeform doesn't disagree
1865086;1540240168;Mocky;not hand rolled, jbake. like java version of jekyll
1865087;1540240176;mircea_popescu;if one were to take this tack, couldn't even turn on computer, gotta fix desk first to be even smoother.
1865088;1540240205;asciilifeform;would be major improvement, tho, if serving up a 10kB article didn't eat 500MB.
1865089;1540240228;mircea_popescu;i don't see that it does ; nor is ram expensive enough to justify work.
1865090;1540240274;Mocky;yeah, pretty far down the list
1865091;1540240307;mircea_popescu;anyway, the point re "redesign" is sound. i comissioned the theme 10 years ago, never really changed it. rolling daily headers came kinda midway, but it literally is one line.
1865092;1540240316;mircea_popescu;and it's all the customizing anyone can take, im sure.
1865093;1540240330;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc i last changed mine in... 2008, or so
1865094;1540240344;mircea_popescu;cuz what's to change, really.
1865095;1540240363;asciilifeform;and yet the box grunts though the templatization 9000 times an hour, as if answ could ever turn out different
1865096;1540240378;asciilifeform;quite offensive imho, from aesthetic pov
1865097;1540240398;Mocky;^
1865098;1540240418;mircea_popescu;this is true.
1865099;1540240447;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865096 << which? this is where i can help
1865100;1540240447;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 20:32 asciilifeform: quite offensive imho, from aesthetic pov
1865101;1540240466;asciilifeform;billymg: it's a fundamental problem with php and any similar substitution-engine thing
1865102;1540240477;asciilifeform;it doesn't meaningfully cache computations
1865103;1540240514;billymg;ah, i thought you meant the final visual output
1865104;1540240517;asciilifeform;nah
1865105;1540240531;asciilifeform;was speaking of where it recalculates what is by all rights a 100% constant value, 9000 times/hr, eternally
1865106;1540240619;asciilifeform;at any given time, your www -- with the possible exception of comment-eater and search box (the latter dun even exist in mp-wp iirc) really wants to be a static string
1865107;1540240654;asciilifeform;rather than a complicated series of template insertions and db fetches
1865108;1540240701;Mocky;with some minor exceptions like mp's random home page & 404 & partial url matching
1865109;1540240718;asciilifeform;right
1865110;1540240718;mircea_popescu;and commenrts and etc
1865111;1540240725;asciilifeform;there aint so many of these knobs tho
1865112;1540240725;billymg;what about the various wordpress "caching" plugins?
1865113;1540240733;asciilifeform;billymg: afaik they dun work worth a shit
1865114;1540240735;mircea_popescu;if you look into the templarte, you'll see it's very flat, as in, most of the non-variable content is quoted literals.
1865115;1540240742;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu coupla yrs ago wrote about trying a caching thing
1865116;1540240755;asciilifeform;melted down spectacularly
1865117;1540240762;billymg;lol
1865118;1540240794;asciilifeform;imho sitting a dedicated cacher on php is archaetypical 'tv raft'
1865119;1540240797;asciilifeform;!#s tv raft
1865120;1540240797;a111;18 results for "tv raft", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tv%20raft
1865121;1540240815;asciilifeform;( from ancient mircea_popescu piece, quoted e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 )
1865122;1540240815;a111;Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
1865123;1540240881;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865066 << ugh I've met too many of these at my $work.
1865124;1540240881;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 20:16 Mocky: I've met a ton of excel lovers who think php is fantastic. seems to appeal greatly to a certain type
1865125;1540240885;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865074 << eventually I aim to have a 'tickerbot' (which, will actually be a function of auctionbot) that will spit out a btc/fiat price based off of the results of republican auctions of a specific type (i.e. to do the price formation of e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860078, automatically)
1865126;1540240885;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 20:21 billymg: lobbes: what does the tickerbot entail?
1865127;1540240885;a111;Logged on 2018-10-10 16:05 BingoBoingo: In other news, today is pizarro invoicing day and hanbot's auction closed per "<lobbesbot> AUCTION # 367 has ENDED: 500usd via WU SOLD to BingoBoingo for 76mn coppers. Attn: hanbot" leading to a price of 6579 usd/BTC
1865128;1540240920;asciilifeform;lobbes: many yrs ago asciilifeform worked in a biotech lab thing, was ~100% 'excel'-powered, erry bit as ugly as you can imagine
1865129;1540240949;asciilifeform;the instruments for which they didn't have 'excel'-izers, were i/o'd by... human hands
1865130;1540240954;asciilifeform;(interns)
1865131;1540240960;lobbes;it boggles my mind each day, how much runs on excel at $mega-corp
1865132;1540240983;lobbes;"we need to automate reporting." "well data is split across 10,000 sources" "idk, do it anyway"
1865133;1540240997;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu had an old piece re subj ; it explains quite a bit re ameri-corporate world
1865134;1540241042;asciilifeform;'excel' is archaetypical pseudo-automation -- eats ~more~ hours in babysitting and manual i/o , than ever saved anyone vs plain pen-and-paper
1865135;1540241081;lobbes;!#s excel sekrit agents
1865136;1540241082;a111;0 results for "excel sekrit agents", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=excel%20sekrit%20agents
1865137;1540241105;Mocky;working with programmers is hard, they constantly tell you why all your ideas are terrible, if any business person who can self teach vb / php can deliver "value" to manager without pesky programmer problems
1865138;1540241110;lobbes;but yeah, also it one of the few things 'execs' can wrap their head around
1865139;1540241120;lobbes;so everyone forced to use
1865140;1540241167;billymg;lobbes: i might be able to help with that if you're looking for hands, but i think i first need to spend a few weeks getting comfortable with V before i'll be of much use
1865141;1540241185;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-11#1641817 << 1 of the threads )
1865142;1540241185;a111;Logged on 2017-04-11 00:21 asciilifeform: i can see a legit pov for the 'no sql' folx. 'you will NOT introduce programmerolade into our process flow, creating work for maggots like yerself and marrying our corp to your lazy and entitled arse' approx.
1865143;1540241232;lobbes;aha that seem familiar
1865144;1540241299;asciilifeform;it gives brass a convincing illusion that they 'understand the process flow', because 'can read any particular spreadshit'
1865145;1540241323;asciilifeform;whereas the fact that collectively 9000MB of excel add up to ~more~ tangled liquishit than 1 perl script, is generally lost on'em
1865146;1540241350;Mocky;and 3 hours later COLD AIR!! lol
1865147;1540241364;asciilifeform;congrats Mocky !
1865148;1540241373;Mocky;even got a pic of indian on a ladder on my bed holding AC unit over head
1865149;1540241376;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1865150;1540241401;lobbes;asciilifeform: ayup. but it doesn't matter if actually works even. just needs to 'look like it works' to whichever group of agents
1865151;1540241408;lobbes;Mocky: congrats on the cool air
1865152;1540241439;Mocky;thx
1865153;1540241500;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, finally got off ass made new header. jesus christ this thing.
1865154;1540242076;Mocky;it's funny to see "face whitening cream" on the grocery shelf next to shaving cream and tooth brushes. i always assumed it was just michael jackson and brown chicks with dark blemishes wanting to bleach skin
1865155;1540242165;lobbes;for some reason 'bleached skin' and 'hot desert sun' don't go well together in my mind O-o
1865156;1540242170;lobbes;billymg: ty for the offer. however ticker functionality will be intimately married to the auction database, so I'm going to want to own that completely. However, auxiliary logs for the various chans is something in demand (#pizarro, for example, just has the one logotron atm). That being said, there may be more pressing needs in the general tmsr conveyor
1865157;1540242193;billymg;BingoBoingo: don't know if you saw this https://www.sqlite.org/codeofconduct.html << sqlite project gets pressured into adopting a CoC, publishes troll CoC based on chapter 4 of The Rule of St. Benedict
1865158;1540242200;lobbes;definitely no shortage of work around these parts
1865159;1540242209;billymg;NPCs and SJWs everywhere not sure whether to be outraged that it's satire or take it seriously and be outraged at its "religious discrimination"
1865160;1540242312;mircea_popescu;heh.
1865161;1540242336;billymg;lobbes: of course, and thanks for the heads up on the other projects
1865162;1540242353;lobbes;billymg: there may also be opportunities selling for pizarro. If you think you could be good at that couldn't hurt to check with them
1865163;1540242489;billymg;this is something i had thought of before
1865164;1540242505;billymg;as there is some overlap between design and marketing
1865165;1540242566;billymg;right now i have two items in my queue 1) figure out how to submit a vpatch for mp-wp with those few lines of CSS tweaks on the default theme 2) write a completely custom mp-wp theme
1865166;1540242739;Mocky;that's where it starts, next thing you know you're in some strange country
1865167;1540242798;mircea_popescu;hahaha
1865168;1540242801;mircea_popescu;he'd know.
1865169;1540242809;billymg;haha strange country very much top of mind for me
1865170;1540242819;billymg;would like to get out before getting stuck in a coke machine
1865171;1540242873;lobbes;billymg: for #1, be sure to check out ben_vulpes' guide on the basics of v: http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
1865172;1540242877;lobbes;although for vdiff, you'll probably want phf's vtools for the keccak
1865173;1540242926;*;lobbes bbl meat
1865174;1540242966;Mocky;oh and in more important news, i got a line on where to buy a waffle maker here. went to the store and they actually do sell them. but ... sold out. which is probably for the best since they were selling a model worth 17$ that makes one at a time for 80$
1865175;1540243101;mircea_popescu;no waffle shops there then ?
1865176;1540243168;BingoBoingo;billymg: I hadn't seen that one yet. Nice take on the TrannyCoC problem.
1865177;1540243234;BingoBoingo;billymg: if you are really looking for something to do, there's a spiffy js text selection thing and mp-wp could use a couple themes where it is plugged in by default
1865178;1540243253;Mocky;yes, a few of them. but waffles here are like a desert gimmick, covered in thick layers of chocolate sauce or the like. they don't take this shit serious
1865179;1540243323;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> it's funny to see "face whitening cream" on the grocery shelf next to shaving cream and tooth brushes. i always assumed it was just michael jackson and brown chicks with dark blemishes wanting to bleach skin << Apparently it is a big Asian thing. The prospect of it being here makes me very cautious about sunscreen selections.
1865180;1540243381;Mocky;makes me wonder what i'd look like white! :D
1865181;1540243424;BingoBoingo;Prolly rather sickly. In this sunny place I am surrounded by sickly looking pale freaks.
1865182;1540243494;BingoBoingo;And in the trilema homepage roulette, this six year old cutie popped up http://trilema.com/2012/that-sticky-issue-of-enforcing-contracts/
1865183;1540243530;billymg;BingoBoingo: i could definitely do that, wanted to add it to my own as the first step
1865184;1540243576;billymg;what if i submitted a vpatch that adds the js-text-selection feature and the few lines of CSS to the "default" theme in mp-wp (blue header one)?
1865185;1540243577;Mocky;self inflicted vitiligo, not good if you have a wide nose, lol
1865186;1540243695;mircea_popescu;billymg that'd prolly be useful. see hanbot 's tree.
1865187;1540243715;billymg;mircea_popescu: sounds good
1865188;1540244728;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/people-of-walmart/ << Trilema - People of Walmart
1865189;1540246222;asciilifeform;lol!!
1865190;1540246230;asciilifeform;there's a lolmart in bananistan?!
1865191;1540246256;*;asciilifeform had nfi
1865192;1540246264;asciilifeform;afaik in BingoBoingostan there was not
1865193;1540246292;asciilifeform;( tho they had a kitschy 'tienda engleza' thing that sold errything from animal fodder to welder
1865194;1540246293;asciilifeform;)
1865195;1540246805;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Apparently Brasil has Walmart, but no, there is no lolmart in BingoBoingostan
1865196;1540247003;mircea_popescu;ha-HA!
1865197;1540247839;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unrelated to anyffing: i have a tentative thing that eats a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864354 and gives trb option of replacing 'checkpoints' with it ( i.e. on boot, tests all already-stored blox against it, and if any blox in the tape are not yet present, then it requests & accepts them and only them, 1 at a time ). do we want this for field use ? (if so i can put on conveyor for cleanup)
1865198;1540247839;a111;Logged on 2018-10-20 01:48 asciilifeform: ( for the impatient : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/snap_546400.txt )
1865199;1540247883;asciilifeform;it doesn't actually speed up sync ( alert long-time readers will know why : sig verification, contrary to the spew of the prb people, is NOT bottleneck for acceptblock() , rather tx indexing is )
1865200;1540247962;asciilifeform;really it's a quite dangerous grenade, if used ineptly. ( i personally would only dare to feed it a tape that came out of own node )
1865201;1540248138;asciilifeform;takes the form of 'makecement' (formerly 'makesnap') command, and corresponding '-setcement' flag that takes a tape on bootup.
1865202;1540248183;asciilifeform;tape being,
1865203;1540248184;asciilifeform;0 000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f
1865204;1540248190;asciilifeform;1 00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048
1865205;1540248192;asciilifeform;... and so forth.
1865206;1540248290;asciilifeform;relatedly, mod6 et al, i suggest abolition of '-verifyall' flag, it should really be permanently welded on, bypassing sig tests doesn't win ~anyffin in so far as i can tell
1865207;1540248373;asciilifeform;erry sig in blox, even taped ones, in oughta be verified, it costs very little cpu
1865208;1540248505;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform can't hurt anything.
1865209;1540248525;asciilifeform;well it adds moving parts
1865210;1540248528;asciilifeform;hence the q
1865211;1540248529;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865024 -> not bad; billymg maybe get the footnotes code to properly link back ; also, place/formatting of footnotes is a bit weird atm - at the first read I thought those were some summary-list rather than footnotes
1865212;1540248529;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 18:47 billymg: trinque: first post ready for review/feedback http://161.0.121.194/?p=4
1865213;1540248549;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not like anyone has to press on it, as per that discussion.
1865214;1540248552;asciilifeform;correct
1865215;1540248573;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: can you personally picture a scenario where you'd want to use this ?
1865216;1540248583;mircea_popescu;now or in the future ?
1865217;1540248587;asciilifeform;future
1865218;1540248628;mircea_popescu;certainly. in general speaking, trbi will prolly not use any of the current trb/prb legacy common code
1865219;1540248646;asciilifeform;i can't picture wanting any old cpp crapola in trbi in general
1865220;1540248654;asciilifeform;$item pertains strictly to current-day trb
1865221;1540248685;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=63 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/18/2018
1865222;1540248690;mircea_popescu;i can't imagine it being useful for current.
1865223;1540248768;asciilifeform;the 1 thing it'd do for current, is to give easy means to determine that errybody actually has same blox. but the read-only knob already gives this ( and arguably 'dumpblock' already gave a much slower version of same )
1865224;1540248826;mircea_popescu;and other things.
1865225;1540248846;asciilifeform;which
1865226;1540248871;mircea_popescu;you know, ye olde fashioned sync mechanism.
1865227;1540248889;mircea_popescu;lots of things give this "make sure you have same blocks".
1865228;1540248907;asciilifeform;ah lol yes
1865229;1540249034;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dI29G/?raw=true << very peculiar barfology from existing ( same tarball i successfully used for s.mg box ) cuntoo. sat for 4 hrs, built both gcc's, etc., then ended with this.
1865230;1540249034;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1865231;1540249055;asciilifeform;( wonder why it even needs py3.. )
1865232;1540249252;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc ben_vulpes had an experiment that demanded custom 'checkpoints' but i do not nao recall what it was ( and can't seem to turn up in l0gz )
1865233;1540249513;billymg;diana_coman: thanks! i see your point about the footnotes, they could use some visual separation from the main content
1865234;1540249801;asciilifeform;aaah found it : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595868
1865235;1540249801;a111;Logged on 2017-01-03 22:19 ben_vulpes: haven't made checkpoints configurable, so solipsist nodes won't even mine
1865236;1540249828;asciilifeform;seems that he wanted to test whether trb's miner component actually worked.
1865237;1540249884;asciilifeform;( currently, this is ~impossible )
1865238;1540249970;asciilifeform;of course, removing the checkpoints thing entirely would give this also. ( i dun recall if anyone ever gave convincing case for whether they oughta stay or go, and if stay, wai not selectable )
1865239;1540250277;asciilifeform;thinking about it, i can actually conceive of 1 possible constructive use for programmable cements -- testing the reorg mechanism ( i.e. deliberately steer a node into a dead end chain, then restart uncemented and see whether it finds its way back properly )
1865240;1540250504;asciilifeform;afaik this is not a test that has actually happened in trb history ( longest naturally-occurring reorg since trb first saw use in the battlefield was, iirc, 8 blox or so ? )
1865241;1540250687;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1865242;1540251974;mircea_popescu;more like 100
1865243;1540252252;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: observed on a trb node concretely ?
1865244;1540252270;asciilifeform;cuz i can't say that i have, on my watch
1865245;1540252339;asciilifeform;i definitely watched a 60 blox reorg, but this was in pre- trb era
1865246;1540252536;asciilifeform;iirc it came from one of those idjit gavin cataclysms
1865247;1540252694;asciilifeform;there was the 2015 lulzfest, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-04#1186479 , but iirc that summed to sad chain ~dozen blox long
1865248;1540252694;a111;Logged on 2015-07-04 04:03 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform listen, seems the chain actually forked.
1865249;1540252927;asciilifeform;hm, loox like was only 6 .
1865250;1540252944;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-04#1187403 << detail.
1865251;1540252944;a111;Logged on 2015-07-04 21:58 mircea_popescu: atm the situation is that block 363730 is forked. one chain, 6 blocks long, proceeds atop a v2 block. the current main chain proceeds from 363730 on v3 blocks.
1865252;1540252978;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you still have the 100blox log spew on tape somewhere, would like to see..
1865253;1540253123;*;asciilifeform has been reading noad spew daily since early 2015, finds it difficult to picture having missed such a bomb
1865254;1540253138;*;asciilifeform brb
1865255;1540258026;lobbes;!!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 1
1865256;1540258032;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bfxYD/?raw=true
1865257;1540258329;BingoBoingo;ty
1865258;1540258330;lobbes;!!v F5B7F38446429C1A7D9FB35C83EB66BA7F63D552C4AE5BE6417131D956115B02
1865259;1540258336;deedbot;lobbes paid BingoBoingo invoice 1
1865260;1540258350;lobbes;BingoBoingo: ty sir
1865261;1540258636;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform to be clear, is the idea "node locked on alt chain while main chain goes on a lot of blocks" or "node on a lengthy orphan chain" ?
1865262;1540258646;mircea_popescu;cuz the latter indeed doesn't happen, expensive mienr failuire
1865263;1540258654;mircea_popescu;but the former happens all the time, cuz inexpensive relay failure
1865264;1540258927;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was asking specifically re events that trigger reorg logic ( as seen in http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1028 ), with arity defined as the length of the eventually discarded forklet chain
1865265;1540258965;asciilifeform;they happen erry coupla wks on zoolag, but are almost always of arity 1
1865266;1540259069;asciilifeform;afaik to date trb demonstrably did Right Thing on reorg of arity 6 ( july '15 incident )
1865267;1540259101;asciilifeform;but if anyone observed a longer one ( whether naturally occurring, that i slept through somehow, or artificial on testbed ) i'd like to know.
1865268;1540259323;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865261 << incidentally i dun see how these are mechanically distinguishable from a node's pov
1865269;1540259323;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 01:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to be clear, is the idea "node locked on alt chain while main chain goes on a lot of blocks" or "node on a lengthy orphan chain" ?
1865270;1540259355;asciilifeform;'locked' implies that reorg logic failed ?
1865271;1540259373;asciilifeform;i.e. perma-wedge ?
1865272;1540259374;mod6;Happy 4th Anniversary to The Bitcoin Foundation!
1865273;1540259396;mod6;I'm currently about a week behind here...
1865274;1540259432;asciilifeform;i have not observed this on trb to date, but it is precisely the q i was posing, whether can happen ( i.e. reorg logic fails ) in some possible alignment of planets.
1865275;1540259439;asciilifeform;mod6: congrats
1865276;1540259493;mod6;Gotta catch up on l0gz and the rest.  In particular, I'm just about nowhere on my task of creating answers to FAQs/Common Questions about the Foundation itself.  I'll be working on that this week as a main priority - will post what I have for review/comments/corrections in #trilema by end of weekend.
1865277;1540259712;mod6;asciilifeform: thanks for your recent submissions to the ML.  I'll get to reviewing those as soon as I can.
1865278;1540259752;asciilifeform;mod6: dun hurry with that one, it's a somewhat exotic knob that isnt of great immediate consequence
1865279;1540259835;asciilifeform;simply dumps block hashes, without racking up ssd wear as dumpblock/hash/erase to do same job would
1865280;1540259838;mod6;Oh, my bad, there was just one.  For some reason, I thought that I read there were two.
1865281;1540259862;asciilifeform;mod6: there was earlier one that prints who gave blox
1865282;1540259863;mod6;Anyway, like I said, need to go back and rewind the logs a week.
1865283;1540259874;mod6;OH, right.
1865284;1540259878;mod6;That one too.
1865285;1540259879;asciilifeform;but thats all i had on ml in recent times
1865286;1540259884;mod6;*nod*.  Cheers.
1865287;1540259985;mod6;The creation of a keccak trb tree is still on the to-do list; however, one thing kinda proceeds that item for me - a review / testing of keccak implementation.  I've never had a chance to do that yet, and I think it's important.
1865288;1540260131;mod6;I've got a pile of things, really. :D
1865289;1540260262;mod6;Meanwhile... my node is happily eating blocks to catch back up.  On block 64 of 85. Will be a few days yet, I'm certain.
1865290;1540260701;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865206 <<  There's a thought.
1865291;1540260701;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 22:44 asciilifeform: relatedly, mod6 et al, i suggest abolition of '-verifyall' flag, it should really be permanently welded on, bypassing sig tests doesn't win ~anyffin in so far as i can tell
1865292;1540260948;asciilifeform;mod6: afaik errybody already runs with the flag. and switching it off dun do anyffing useful, quite the contrary
1865293;1540261071;mod6;I can't disagree with that.
1865294;1540261110;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865239 << This would be a neat test.
1865295;1540261110;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 23:17 asciilifeform: thinking about it, i can actually conceive of 1 possible constructive use for programmable cements -- testing the reorg mechanism ( i.e. deliberately steer a node into a dead end chain, then restart uncemented and see whether it finds its way back properly )
1865296;1540266732;mircea_popescu;yeah, no, those don't really happen anymore. even 1s are rare(r).
1865297;1540267155;asciilifeform;indeed. sorta why they're of interest, imho, as 'corner case'.
1865298;1540267191;asciilifeform;rare, but otoh 'nobody cancelled' .
1865299;1540269077;mircea_popescu;money kinda cancelled, but yeah
1865300;1540269138;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865268 << they aren't ; but bad peer set can produce it also, and often enough does.
1865301;1540269138;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 01:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865261 << incidentally i dun see how these are mechanically distinguishable from a node's pov
1865302;1540269321;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865276 << don't waste your time with that, let it emerge naturally.
1865303;1540269321;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 01:51 mod6: Gotta catch up on l0gz and the rest.  In particular, I'm just about nowhere on my task of creating answers to FAQs/Common Questions about the Foundation itself.  I'll be working on that this week as a main priority - will post what I have for review/comments/corrections in #trilema by end of weekend.
1865304;1540269335;mircea_popescu;every time we notice same answer is given to repeated question, we note it down. before, what's the use ?
1865305;1540269347;mircea_popescu;sit there try to come up with imaginatioins of future people seems a waste of your time.
1865306;1540269548;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865206 << yes.
1865307;1540269548;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 22:44 asciilifeform: relatedly, mod6 et al, i suggest abolition of '-verifyall' flag, it should really be permanently welded on, bypassing sig tests doesn't win ~anyffin in so far as i can tell
1865308;1540269566;mircea_popescu;entirely nonfeature.
1865309;1540274712;bvt;hi, i have mp-wp set up now: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/instead-of-hello-world-fg-tests/ . I will publish writeup and updated vpatch for vpatch later today.
1865310;1540274872;mircea_popescu;neat!
1865311;1540275507;bvt;thx
1865312;1540275570;mircea_popescu;"While the FG shop has been closed for quite some time already," asciilifeform think we should bake a new set ?
1865313;1540276258;mircea_popescu;diana_coman re http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/18/smg-comms-chapter-3-packing-serpent/#selection-85.346-85.466 wouldn't it be better to have a single style for this ?
1865314;1540276301;mircea_popescu;slowly but surely a republican ada style manual is shaping up (and through the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865304 process, at that!)
1865315;1540276301;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 04:35 mircea_popescu: every time we notice same answer is given to repeated question, we note it down. before, what's the use ?
1865316;1540282410;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, what would the style be there?
1865317;1540282473;diana_coman;on one hand libs on their own should logically have their own types; on the other hand, when they are used as part of a bigger project, it makes sense I think to make their types subtypes - where they fit/are the same
1865318;1540283532;mircea_popescu;i dunno, make everything a byte ? or an octet
1865319;1540283560;mircea_popescu;ie, have some tmsr-wide meta-types.
1865320;1540287979;diana_coman;hm, theoretically the byte is standard but there is the bit/byte confusion issue and moreover I really find octet easier on brain as it directly points at "it's eight bits!"
1865321;1540288021;diana_coman;that being said, names are one thing, definition of the types another: i.e. every packet and project still needs to define/have defined somewhere the types it uses
1865322;1540288453;diana_coman;ftr I quite like the neat way in which asciilifeform defined those basic types in FFA; however, he went for the classical types so byte, nibble ; and I find octet SO much easier than I'm reluctant to give it up in my code (though all it takes is anyway a "subtype Octet is Byte" at top if Byte definition is to be adopted)
1865323;1540288468;diana_coman;than->that
1865324;1540292524;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1864316 << apologies alf, I'm running behind! trying to gather time to get caught up in the next week or two
1865325;1540292524;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 21:27 asciilifeform: whatever happend to http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com btw
1865326;1540300727;mircea_popescu;hm.
1865327;1540300773;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=64 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/19/2018
1865328;1540300781;mircea_popescu;diana_coman i can see it ; i like octet also, but yeah, can't start forcing this cultural issue on people. a one line define i guess only reasonable approach at this point.
1865329;1540301237;diana_coman;yes; basically Ada makes it easy enough to not have to force anything; funny how Ada is in fact *very* accommodating - where it makes sense to be
1865330;1540301385;mircea_popescu;yeah. i guess a history of c cultural sadness is showing in my preoccupatons huh.
1865331;1540301389;mircea_popescu;a well, what can you do
1865332;1540301419;mircea_popescu;aaactually, ill tell you what i can do : im going to teh beach. back thurs or some shit!
1865333;1540301473;diana_coman;ahaha, that's the spirit: when C strikes, go to the beachz!
1865334;1540301479;diana_coman;have fun
1865335;1540301517;asciilifeform;happy beaching, mircea_popescu
1865336;1540301579;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i actually have 0 objections to 'octet', tho i confess i never suffered from 'bit'-'byte' conflation ( never worked on a box with 7 or 9 bit bytes, e.g. the CDC described in 1st ed k&r -- tho i did work on boxes with odd word lengths, e.g. pic16, where 14bit nonbreakable word... )
1865337;1540301631;asciilifeform;in own proggies, i like using explicitly-bitted types, e.g. Unsigned_8 in http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_genesis#L441
1865338;1540301642;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it's like a 1ms internal, perceptible interpreting-slowdown every time I meet bit/byte
1865339;1540301666;diana_coman;not exactly confusion, just ...stumble I guess
1865340;1540301687;diana_coman;and yes, octet is defined in smg.comms as unsigned_8 ofc
1865341;1540301697;asciilifeform;nao possibly i never suffer from this because i very rarely refer to bits explicitly
1865342;1540301705;diana_coman;(I just don't want to carry about Interfaces.Unsigned_8 everywhere)
1865343;1540301724;diana_coman;not to mention that I think it is actually saner to have local names for types used
1865344;1540301832;BingoBoingo;Enjoy the beach
1865345;1540302055;asciilifeform;!Q later tell nicoleci http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865327 >> s/Their/There
1865346;1540302055;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 13:19 deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=64 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/19/2018
1865347;1540302056;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1865348;1540302247;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865312 << ideally we oughta bake the new one, with ice40 & scintillator, imho
1865349;1540302247;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 06:19 mircea_popescu: "While the FG shop has been closed for quite some time already," asciilifeform think we should bake a new set ?
1865350;1540302302;asciilifeform;the primary headache of old FG is imho the very modest output rate, which makes the thing take ridiculous length of time to test on my bench
1865351;1540302442;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865309 << neato !
1865352;1540302442;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 06:05 bvt: hi, i have mp-wp set up now: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/instead-of-hello-world-fg-tests/ . I will publish writeup and updated vpatch for vpatch later today.
1865353;1540302559;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: classical FG also fits very reluctantly in servers, but currently i dun have a good idea re what specifically to do about this ( the 'obvious' pill is to have a pci variant, but ice40 is too small for the necessary logic, which in itself is quite gnarly )
1865354;1540303120;asciilifeform;if x86 pc were a product of sane folx, it'd have rng sockets on mobo...
1865355;1540303208;asciilifeform;or at the very least , >1 serial port ( the current pizarro boxen, do have rs232 header on mobo, but only one, and at the traditional +/- 12v signal levels, rather than ttl, and i eschew the converters, because they all work by oscillating capacitor pump, hence noisy )
1865356;1540303326;asciilifeform;i wouldn't even be opposed to putting usb logic on FG -- but to this very day have not found a sane (i.e. not reflashable via usb) interface ic , aside from the chinese dongles ( which i outboarded, because if a piece can be outboarded -- it oughta, per specificity-of-diddling )
1865357;1540303436;asciilifeform;diana_coman: given as you're the leading industrial FG user, perhaps share your pov on the above ?
1865358;1540303539;diana_coman;asciilifeform, so far it's been mainly use-in-testing, what can I say; what is it you'd need feedback on?
1865359;1540303548;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the redesign
1865360;1540303593;asciilifeform;right nao, 2 FG ~just barely~ fit in a 1u serv, and it takes adhesive fasteners
1865361;1540303680;diana_coman;I can't say that I see a clear suggestion on how to solve that though
1865362;1540303682;asciilifeform;aand there's the usb-ttl thing, which is gnarly
1865363;1540303700;diana_coman;myeah, that's about the main current pain from my pov
1865364;1540303750;asciilifeform;if this were a bake-by-the-thousands product, we could bake asic. but currently this is not realistic imho
1865365;1540303784;asciilifeform;( plus i ~like~ that it gets made from off-the-shelf components, from strategic pov it is imho superior )
1865366;1540303861;diana_coman;so far the FGs are one of the relatively few things that I positively like having to deal with!
1865367;1540303962;asciilifeform;what i'd really like is to bake an entire comp, a la rockchip, with FG on board. but this too is in same budgetary ballpark as asic .
1865368;1540304104;diana_coman;I rather think we'll get there one day; not yet though
1865369;1540304134;asciilifeform;( if yer baking asics, incidentally, may as well bake a http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-22#987731 and get sane cpu )
1865370;1540304134;a111;Logged on 2015-01-22 06:26 asciilifeform: whateverthefuck fpga cpu << http://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/cadbook/Chapters/Chapter13/mips.v << mips.
1865371;1540304229;asciilifeform;if could afford asic with ~100k transistors -- could have 256x256 multiplier, have 4096bit constant-spacetime rsa in coupla millisecond...
1865372;1540304248;asciilifeform;'if wishes were horses'(tm)
1865373;1540304390;asciilifeform;i'ma describe , for the l0gz : ideal cpu for crypto would be something quite like the schoolbook mips.v -- no cache, no branch prediction, no pipeline, no dram controller (run off sram strictly), a set of large regs for multiply-shift , and dedicated pipe to FG (i.e. have single-instruction that fills a register with entropy )
1865374;1540304437;asciilifeform;would also have some antifuse rom on-board, with option to run entirely from same.
1865375;1540304506;asciilifeform;fabricate it in 1uM or similar 1980s process. package with optical quartz lid , a la old EPROMs, for audit-with-childrens-microscope.
1865376;1540306570;BingoBoingo;billymg: The CoC situation is lulzier than my reading of it yesterday lead me to believe
1865377;1540307696;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/manufactured-trannycocist-outrage-over-sqlites-longstanding-benedictine-code-of-conduct-as-coc-incompatibilities-set-up-to-replace-license-incompatibilities-as-top-open-source-drama-fountain/ << Qntra - Manufactured TrannyCoCist Outrage Over SQLite's Longstanding Benedictine Code Of Conduct As CoC Incompatibilities Set Up To Replace License Incompatibilities As Top Open Source Drama Fountain
1865378;1540308156;asciilifeform;in related lulz, '...following his brief sabbatical in which he pledged to shed his abusive tendencies, it's hoped a kinder and gentler Linus is ready to resume his duties. Perhaps not coincidentally, with the return of Torvalds will come a "harassment-free" code of conduct that is now part of the kernel source tree.'
1865379;1540308425;BingoBoingo;Not really news unless someone involved in the zombie Linus thing comes up with a line like: "but that would put me in the position of editing and redacting Benedict of Nursia, as if I were wiser than he"
1865380;1540309258;asciilifeform;in other noose, 178.238.224.213 ( by all indications, does not contain a public node of any kind ) has been spamming randomly generated blox, incl. to zoolag, at the rate of 5-10 erry sec
1865381;1540309659;asciilifeform;if receiving end were prb ( which last i knew, still had the 'orphanage' thing ) -- would balloon to fill ram
1865382;1540310207;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the 1 crackpottery i've considered adding to FG-2, is an 'authenticated' mode, where userland proggy gets ability to verify that rng bits actually came from a particular FG. the way to do it would be to have a keccak salt, printed on the board, and have the thing send , instead of naked bytes, packets, of b0,b1,...bN bytes, followed by keccak(salt, b0,b1,...bn) . could be enabled by jumper setting, conceivably.
1865383;1540310247;asciilifeform;cuz right nao, theoretically, a supplier of e.g. usb-ttl dongles, or even bugged cable, could substitute prng for the FG bits, undetected
1865384;1540310267;asciilifeform;i'ma let mircea_popescu ponder whether this kind of thing is worth doing
1865385;1540310396;asciilifeform;1 of the wins from it would be that user could immediately verify that baud rate etc are set correctly, instead of relying on the convenient happenstance that a FG misconfigged serial line will produce low-entropy rubbish (with stuck bits)
1865386;1540310475;asciilifeform;the obvious down-side, aside from the substantially moar complicated logic, would be that you could no longer dd if=/dev/fg | dieharder etc
1865387;1540310486;asciilifeform;would have to actually process the stream before use.
1865388;1540310592;asciilifeform;1 possible way around this, would be to send the hashes on a separate serial line.
1865389;1540310615;asciilifeform;then the primary one could function exactly as the classical FG line did.
1865390;1540310633;asciilifeform;( at the cost of occupying 2, rather than 1, serial ports )
1865391;1540310827;asciilifeform;( if it isn't obvious to the reader -- the salt would have to be unique per-board, naturally )
1865392;1540311091;asciilifeform;another pheature i've considered, is to give the thing a sd card slot, so it could fill it straight for otp use. but this is perhaps a bridge too far.
1865393;1540311137;asciilifeform;( tho quite possibly a FG2 that doubles as an iron otptron, could be a marketable win in itself )
1865394;1540311360;asciilifeform;( see, e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-10#1480388 thread )
1865395;1540311360;a111;Logged on 2016-06-10 18:07 asciilifeform: ;;calc 10**12 / ((9600 / 8) * 60 * 60 * 24)
1865396;1540311489;asciilifeform;i suspect that there is a sane space b/w the classical design and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-12#1540775 extremity, simply gotta find what it is.
1865397;1540311489;a111;Logged on 2016-09-12 22:47 mircea_popescu: comes alive at night and fucks your wife.
1865398;1540311528;asciilifeform;'and here is where you strap a live snake, to bite-while-you-smite!'(tm)(r)
1865399;1540314438;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathen lulz, https://archive.is/B9hHc#selection-9797.129-9817.37 << ye olde lukejr, 'http://therealbitcoin.org  (which is NOT a full node, mind you)'
1865400;1540314519;asciilifeform;didjaknow.
1865401;1540314685;asciilifeform;( nao i'm curious, what, by d00d's lights, is 'full node', and where might one get such a thing )
1865402;1540314847;Mocky;sd card slot has merit. for iron otptron even two slots is not going overboard imo if it doesn't overcomplicate the design, since generally will need two copies and may prefer not to plug into general purpose comp
1865403;1540314912;asciilifeform;Mocky: it's an old idea of asciilifeform's -- otptron gets 2 sd slots. fill switch triggers fill-up of both with identical otp. then you fly to bananistan with ~one~ and trade with the other fella for his. then you both have identical xor of pad-a and pad-b, in the respective slots.
1865404;1540314994;Mocky;yup, or fill two over lunch together and each walk away with identical copy
1865405;1540314996;asciilifeform;( he did same thing, on his end )
1865406;1540315005;asciilifeform;Mocky: idea is that you dun need to transport the unit itself
1865407;1540315061;asciilifeform;Mocky: theoretically dun have to use with an actual comp, can have dumb glass terminal on the plaintext side of each box
1865408;1540315078;asciilifeform;or voice encoder, etc
1865409;1540315098;asciilifeform;the ciphertext side can be an off-the-shelf ethernet-to-rs232 box.
1865410;1540315169;asciilifeform;1 of the things i like about otp box is that it is trivial to verify that it functions as specified ( can plug in a pad with known contents, throw in known plaintext, and observe -- with a comp of your choice -- what comes out )
1865411;1540315276;Mocky;i'm not familiar with off-the-shelf ethernet-to-rs232 box, but it sounds self explanatory
1865412;1540315281;asciilifeform;the method where you exchange cards, has 2 wins: it is not enuff for enemy to get copy of simply 1 card, must get one of each ; and rng failure on 1 side doesn't sink you, you get combined reliability of the 2 rng's ( perhaps yours is of 1 type, and other fella's -- another )
1865413;1540315302;asciilifeform;Mocky: e.g. https://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/Serial-over-IP/1-port-RS232-serial-over-ip-adapter~NETRS2321P
1865414;1540315312;asciilifeform;they're a standard item, common in laboratory/industrial automation etc
1865415;1540315319;Mocky;ah yes, i see the 2 cards angle now
1865416;1540315435;asciilifeform;this kinda thing is 1 obvious application for a quality rng ( dun even have to be blazing fast rng, an ordinary FG handily fills a 1G card in ~week or so )
1865417;1540315461;asciilifeform;and for point-to-point link, e.g., shell, can last for a good while ( i dun think i've put 1 whole GB through a shell in the past yr... )
1865418;1540315569;asciilifeform;or if yer doing voice, 100*10**9 / ((9600 / 8) * 60 * 60 * 24) / 365.0 ~= 2.6 ~years~ of 9600 baud voice, with 100G card.
1865419;1540315656;Mocky;yeah but that card took 2 months for FG x10 to fill, no?
1865420;1540315665;asciilifeform;indeed
1865421;1540315692;asciilifeform;with scintillator FG , at MB/s, faster.
1865422;1540315713;asciilifeform;but even with ordinary one, it aint much of a problem, just be sure to get the fillers started ~before~ current pad runs dry.
1865423;1540315729;Mocky;yup
1865424;1540315752;asciilifeform;current FG moar than fast enuff, to do 1/year pad flights b/w 2 hypothetical points.
1865425;1540315787;asciilifeform;the 1 missing ingredient, is somebody who actually wants this.
1865426;1540315835;asciilifeform;it is, really, 1970s tech, with the exception of the ssd.
1865427;1540315855;asciilifeform;but even in '90s, with GB disk, could have been easily built.
1865428;1540315893;asciilifeform;the scheme of course lives and dies by the rng; but this is common to any form of crypto whatsoever.
1865429;1540316045;Mocky;but also by ensuring material is not ever reused
1865430;1540316065;asciilifeform;Mocky: well yes, you nuke each block on the card prior to xoring plaintext and sending
1865431;1540316075;asciilifeform;and for good measure, use the cards 1ce, cremate'em when empty
1865432;1540316081;asciilifeform;( they're , what, a few bux ea. )
1865433;1540316207;asciilifeform;the 1 slightly subtle devil in the details, is that you gotta authenticate incoming data, or enemy can force you to burn your pad by sending rubbish. fortunately there are several easy ways of doing this ( the most obvious, is to use a small piece of each block as a hash salt, and send keccak(salt+ciphertext) after each N bytes of ciphertext )
1865434;1540316244;asciilifeform;that way you can reject rubbish, if somehow enemy is able to send you any
1865435;1540316267;asciilifeform;you only decrypt and wind forward the pad if the auth hash matches the expected one for the block salt.
1865436;1540316287;asciilifeform;this does cost you a certain amount of bandwidth, but imho is necessary.
1865437;1540316510;Mocky;and is block number sent or assumed next available?
1865438;1540316526;asciilifeform;Mocky: you'd want the link to be fully synchronous
1865439;1540316534;asciilifeform;i.e. nothing is sent until prev block ack'd
1865440;1540316566;asciilifeform;that way you dun have to send block #s, or to risk the endpoints getting out of sync.
1865441;1540316610;Mocky;still have to handle unexpected disconnects tho right?
1865442;1540316623;asciilifeform;what's a disconnect in this context ?
1865443;1540316655;asciilifeform;either you get the ack, or you don't
1865444;1540316663;Mocky;ack is sent but never received
1865445;1540316688;asciilifeform;so counterparty retransmits his last ciphered block until he gets it
1865446;1540316749;Mocky;is the last ciphered block stored on disk?
1865447;1540316756;asciilifeform;sram
1865448;1540316838;Mocky;ok, i don't see a hole in it
1865449;1540316839;asciilifeform;simple scheme, for example: 512 byte pad blocks; 1st 64 bytes are reserved for a-b keccak salt, last 64 bytes -- b->a salt, 384 in the middle for payload pad. say 'a' starts the convo: sends c = 384byte-plaintext xor 384byte pad . followed by h = keccak(a->b salt + c ). then he expects an ack in the form of keccak(b->a salt + c ) before he winds forward to next block.
1865450;1540316944;asciilifeform;imho it's pretty simple.
1865451;1540317028;asciilifeform;the link, being a physical object, can be disrupted by enemy, but there's nuffin anybody without a copy of the pads can productively do to the traveling bits.
1865452;1540317084;Mocky;so have to store block you most recently ack'd as well, to detect resend
1865453;1540317119;asciilifeform;correct, you need a sram big enuff to hold 2 blox.
1865454;1540317134;asciilifeform;three whole pennies' worth..
1865455;1540317203;Mocky;hows the ack look like, a hash?
1865456;1540317212;asciilifeform;as described above
1865457;1540317221;asciilifeform;in 'simple scheme, for example..'
1865458;1540317231;Mocky;oh right
1865459;1540317271;asciilifeform;the idea being, that nobody lacking a copy of the pad can cause you to wind yours forward.
1865460;1540317323;Mocky;yeah
1865461;1540317480;asciilifeform;each side obtains proof that the other actually received and correctly decrypted a block, prior to sending another.
1865462;1540317576;asciilifeform;nao if you really must have an asynchronous link ( for e.g. delivery on carrier pigeons, or somesuch ) you can have sequence #s. but still must have authenticator mechanism similar to above, or enemy can force your pad forward by sending crapola.
1865463;1540317678;asciilifeform;in an asynchronous scheme, you gotta explicitly divide the pad in halves, one for a->b and one for b->a, so as to exclude any possibility of either end making use of a block of pad that may have already been made use of by other side meanwhile.
1865464;1540317853;asciilifeform;imho the synchronous variant is preferable, when the underlying physical link permits it .
1865465;1540317949;Mocky;the simplicity of otp is appealing, and knowing that no one is sitting on a back door
1865466;1540317974;asciilifeform;can think of it as simply a very long untappable wire.
1865467;1540317978;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> meanwhile, in heathen lulz, https://archive.is/B9hHc#selection-9797.129-9817.37 << ye olde lukejr, 'http://therealbitcoin.org  (which is NOT a full node, mind you)' << Has been addressed. Turns out I STILL haven't been banned (likely from not using the thing) https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/1054795688679272450
1865468;1540317999;asciilifeform;Mocky: it dun replace rsa, you can't sign with it, or speak to >1 counterparty . but imho has its uses
1865469;1540318036;asciilifeform;and modern tech makes it possible to avoid the traditional fatal boojums connected with otpism.
1865470;1540318089;asciilifeform;( specifically: need to carry pads often (not any moar, carry 1TB disk etc ) ; reuse of pad ( nomoar, burn each block after use ) ; shit rng (nomoar, we have decent rng ) )
1865471;1540318117;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'It validates completely validates blocks and transactions' ?
1865472;1540318173;BingoBoingo;It's twitter. The only way to win is Trumpisms
1865473;1540318190;BingoBoingo;And the input box is a turd
1865474;1540318194;asciilifeform;lol
1865475;1540318198;BingoBoingo;laggy as fuck
1865476;1540318213;*;asciilifeform never used twatter, does not know
1865477;1540318332;BingoBoingo;It's not a vice I can recommend
1865478;1540322089;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/derps-now-doing-dns-over-https/ << Qntra - Derps Now Doing DNS Over HTTPS
1865479;1540324286;jurov;mod6: BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: and everyone - therealbitcoin btc-dev mailing list is now working on the Foundation's server. You should have got an announcement,
1865480;1540324300;jurov;but at least gmail needs to be told this is not spam.
1865481;1540324311;asciilifeform;jurov: neato ! ty
1865482;1540325447;mod6;jurov: thanks!  messages were in my spambox, but did receive. :]
1865483;1540325637;mats;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865399 << reply from buterin: 'You guys should train users to take an active role in governance and keep their software up to date by having more hard forks.'
1865484;1540325637;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 17:07 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in heathen lulz, https://archive.is/B9hHc#selection-9797.129-9817.37 << ye olde lukejr, 'http://therealbitcoin.org  (which is NOT a full node, mind you)'
1865485;1540327943;asciilifeform;in other lulz: yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865380 found, 165.227.138.176
1865486;1540327943;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 15:40 asciilifeform: in other noose, 178.238.224.213 ( by all indications, does not contain a public node of any kind ) has been spamming randomly generated blox, incl. to zoolag, at the rate of 5-10 erry sec
1865487;1540327956;asciilifeform;same algo, thing shits out 9000 shitblox and dumps at line speed
1865488;1540328012;asciilifeform;^ also not a public noad of any description
1865489;1540328183;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4GZTO/?raw=true << raw barfola. observe that NONE of the 'prev' hashes match any known bitcoin block .
1865490;1540328228;asciilifeform;501 of'em, interestingly
1865491;1540328287;asciilifeform;conceivably, these could be forkcoin noades behind a nat
1865492;1540328305;asciilifeform;( tho traditionally these have some means of sticking with their own kind, possibly this has changed )
1865493;1540328389;asciilifeform;would be interesting to learn wtf is inside those blox. but i dun currently have the box configured to save liquishit ( no conceivable disk would suffice )
1865494;1540328631;mod6;asciilifeform: i appreciate you passing around the offending ips
1865495;1540328720;asciilifeform;i'ma leave a   tcpdump -w fuckwads.pcap -i eth0 "host 165.227.138.176" or "host 178.238.224.213"  running on zoolag
1865496;1540328727;asciilifeform;possibly we learn moar later
1865497;1540328869;asciilifeform;or hey, wai not  tcpdump -w fuckwads.pcap -i eth0 "net 165.227.0.0/16" or "net 178.238.0.0/16"  .
1865498;1540328889;mod6;*thumbsup*
1865499;1540328935;asciilifeform;if anybody notices moar of these, plox to share, so i can add'em to the glue trap
1865500;1540329017;mod6;im grepping my incoming logs for similar, will report if i see sludge
1865501;1540329057;asciilifeform;i admit that i'm pretty curious re just what it is that they're offering up as blox.
1865502;1540329141;asciilifeform;will post the pcap once it fattens up.
1865503;1540330875;bvt;a better write-up on the vpatch temporary file creation: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3
1865504;1540333700;asciilifeform;update : so far only buncha addr's, getdata's, inv's, from *176, in the glue trap.
1865505;1540333823;asciilifeform;defo seems to be a misconfigured/maliciously-configged shitfork noad, none of the tx hashes in the inv's line up with anything from human planet
1865506;1540333940;asciilifeform;as for *213 : behold : answer to this bermuda triangle : https://archive.is/9j7vx#selection-5463.0-5525.29 << tardstalk : 'interesting thing! a creativecoin clone ( with strange ico: real coins vs virtual coins ) ... if you want to add me: addnode=178.238.224.213:12358' etc etc
1865507;1540333979;asciilifeform;'The installation is a three-by-three-meter replica of steel and wood reproducing the coin minting machine used by Spanish settlers in the gold and silver mines of Potosí, (Bolivia). The mill mints physical coins that are automatically registered in a blockchain...' blah blah
1865508;1540334004;asciilifeform;wtf this idjit is doing connecting to trb noadez, is anybody's guess.
1865509;1540334033;asciilifeform;such... 'creative'
1865510;1540334054;BingoBoingo;lolollolololololocaust
1865511;1540334127;asciilifeform;i gotta wonder nao, if prb's tx checker is porous enuff that it actually relays these !
1865512;1540334366;BingoBoingo;It could very well be
1865513;1540334454;asciilifeform;suggests that the typical shitcoin-of-the-day nowadays is a bch-style phork, rather than 2013-style 'prb with genesis swapped'
1865514;1540334468;asciilifeform;and they live, live, cuz not in fact worth the bullet
1865515;1540334502;asciilifeform;( bullet still costs a day's work, or so, to set up shitnode-of-the-day, then find some exchange where it can even be traded , etc )
1865516;1540334638;asciilifeform;offers approx same ev as hunting rats in sewer for their skins
1865517;1540334800;asciilifeform;i suspected shitfork, when realized that the 501 blox gotta be a few kB most, ea. -- my pipe couldn't disgorge 501 human-sized blox in <2sec
1865518;1540340576;BingoBoingo;[emoji: watermelon running from Baltimore native]
1865519;1540348282;BingoBoingo;In other barometers: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/estudiantes-de-magisterio-denuncian-comentarios-homofobicos-y-racistas-de-profesora-20181023185258
1865520;1540352944;billymg;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865377 << BingoBoingo: nice. imo it's a great way to respond. "oh a CoC? why yes, great idea! in fact let's take it one step further" -- a sort of embrace, extend, extinguish strategy
1865521;1540352944;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 15:14 deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/manufactured-trannycocist-outrage-over-sqlites-longstanding-benedictine-code-of-conduct-as-coc-incompatibilities-set-up-to-replace-license-incompatibilities-as-top-open-source-drama-fountain/ << Qntra - Manufactured TrannyCoCist Outrage Over SQLite's Longstanding Benedictine Code Of Conduct As CoC Incompatibilities Set Up To Replace License Incompatibilities As Top Open Source Drama Fountain
1865522;1540388418;asciilifeform;briefly revisiting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865463 >> nobody noticed the omission, but i oughta've pointed out that 'a' and 'b' gotta proceed from opposite ends of the pad, when sending, otherwise risk collision
1865523;1540388418;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 18:01 asciilifeform: in an asynchronous scheme, you gotta explicitly divide the pad in halves, one for a->b and one for b->a, so as to exclude any possibility of either end making use of a block of pad that may have already been made use of by other side meanwhile.
1865524;1540388494;asciilifeform;bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865503 << this is very interesting ! i had nfi that open() had been sabotaged on mips-linux ( observe , in your table, errybody has same flags but for mips )
1865525;1540388494;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 21:41 bvt: a better write-up on the vpatch temporary file creation: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3
1865526;1540388968;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865502 >> as promised >> http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/fuckwads_in.pcap ( filtered , for convenience: only incoming crapola )
1865527;1540388968;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 21:12 asciilifeform: will post the pcap once it fattens up.
1865528;1540389060;asciilifeform;tldr : the shitcoin people are in fact pretending to compatibility with ordinary btc protocol; even going as far as using unchanged version strings, and backdated block timestamps ( of course trb rejects the liquishit in O(1) , but it is entertaining )
1865529;1540389255;asciilifeform;bvt : i'ma have to implement something to make calls to open() portable, cuz this is riotously ridiculous
1865530;1540389272;asciilifeform;it is not possible to get away without open() in a nontrivial proggy on unixlike
1865531;1540389324;asciilifeform;my mmap thing, which i've mostly finished rework to prepare for genesis, demands open(), mmap cannot eat fopen()
1865532;1540389676;bvt;asciilifeform: re open flags: this is exactly what i was pointing at. should have made the text bold, i guess. if all these flags numbers were the same, i would have used the syscall wrapper functions.
1865533;1540389739;bvt;and the amount of damage is ridiculous, even errno codes are different on mips.
1865534;1540389752;asciilifeform;bvt: search turned up plenty of folx on the net wondering why their $proggy (all kinds) dun go on mips
1865535;1540389766;asciilifeform;with culprit being the assumption of standard open() flags
1865536;1540389782;asciilifeform;i.e. mips linux was sabotaged.
1865537;1540389904;asciilifeform;my mmap thing was originally c-free (aside from a coupla imported, adatronically, calls) but apparently will have to include a .c simply for open(), to be portable.
1865538;1540389951;bvt;i would try to make some sort of write-up about this. i wanted to suggest making a Ada library that exposes a subset of Linux system calls without C code, because i clearly needed it for the tempfile.
1865539;1540389980;asciilifeform;bvt: i have a variant of this in ffa, and yet another subset in mmap
1865540;1540389989;asciilifeform;prolly at some point we'll unify these and others
1865541;1540390040;asciilifeform;but currently seems to me that it is impossible to write a portable proggy that uses open() without a .c that #include's the system's flags
1865542;1540390055;bvt;but so far it's not clear what the subset should be, what to do about C structures (with problems like e.g. https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2017/01/25/1)
1865543;1540390117;bvt;well, for the library that i had in mind was strictly a database of flag name->int mappings, syscall numbers, maybe structure definitions.
1865544;1540390177;asciilifeform;bvt: didja get a chance to read my udp lib ? the structs thing is the reason for http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_errata_asciilifeform/tree/udp/libudp/unix_udp.c .
1865545;1540390209;asciilifeform;there is afaik no clean way of portably eating the ridiculous c structs without actually including a .c component.
1865546;1540390264;asciilifeform;if it weren't for struct sockaddr_in..., struct in_addr..., i'd've simply imported the calls via pragma Import(C, ... )
1865547;1540390298;bvt;yes, i skimmed through it. all these sockaddr structures would be a bitch to do in ada. this is why i believe it would be useful to define, what subset we'd need.
1865548;1540390337;asciilifeform;my orig attempt at the udp thing tried to stick with purely pragma Import(...), but the result was definitely not portable, and so i rewrote it like-so
1865549;1540390487;asciilifeform;imho, segregating as much as possible of unix liquishit in a short .c, is cleaner than buncha Import() and hardcoded flag constants derived by guesswork
1865550;1540390547;asciilifeform;the .c absolutely gotta be bug-free tho, or it sinks yer whole proggy
1865551;1540390701;bvt;i would much prefer going pure ada for a subset of posix. otherwise it's the same as relying on GNAT-specific packages -- it exports plenty of interesting stuff, not sure about networking though.
1865552;1540391514;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865522 >> plus then you either have to reverse the pad for one, or maintain a bit of state for top-eater vs bottom-eater
1865553;1540391514;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 13:40 asciilifeform: briefly revisiting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865463 >> nobody noticed the omission, but i oughta've pointed out that 'a' and 'b' gotta proceed from opposite ends of the pad, when sending, otherwise risk collision
1865554;1540394397;asciilifeform;Mocky: i can think of several algos for reliably picking 'left' and 'right' without any manual config ( recall, 'a' and 'b' have the cards slotted in, in opposite orders, call'em pad 'x' and 'y' , 'a' has x-y and b y-x -- both get same final xor, x xor y, is used as pad p )
1865555;1540394451;asciilifeform;bvt: thing is, there's a non-negotiable must-have subset of posix, that ~cannot~ be implemented as pure ada. e.g. the udp structs liquishit. or , as we learned from bvt , open()
1865556;1540394472;asciilifeform;when we get own sane os, can reimplement on ~that~ . but under unixlike, stuck with .c thing
1865557;1540394507;asciilifeform;bvt: you'll find that the gnat-specific packages are ~entirely liquishit -- check out what passes for 'gnat.sockets' for instance.
1865558;1540394522;asciilifeform;kilometre of crapola, streamism, variablelengthstringism, etc
1865559;1540394746;asciilifeform;incidentally, https://www.adacore.com/gems/gem-59 apparently exists, tho i confess that i really dislike the idea of automatic converters for coad
1865560;1540394880;mod6;asciilifeform: thx for posting your fuckwads pcap
1865561;1540394922;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865276 << Roger!
1865562;1540394922;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 01:51 mod6: Gotta catch up on l0gz and the rest.  In particular, I'm just about nowhere on my task of creating answers to FAQs/Common Questions about the Foundation itself.  I'll be working on that this week as a main priority - will post what I have for review/comments/corrections in #trilema by end of weekend.
1865563;1540394929;asciilifeform;mod6: lemme know if you see sumthing interesting that i missed. but seems to me that my earlier hypothesis holds, they were forkolade noades.
1865564;1540394941;mod6;oops. somehow, copied the wrong thing
1865565;1540394948;mod6;asciilifeform: will do
1865566;1540394976;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865302 << Roger this, Sir
1865567;1540394976;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 04:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865276 << don't waste your time with that, let it emerge naturally.
1865568;1540394989;asciilifeform;mod6: dun burn much time on it, i suspect there is nothing much of interest ( they break some of the protocol format, but not, as far as i can tell, to any interesting end )
1865569;1540395027;mod6;*nod* I was a bit curious as to what type of slop they were trying to feed us.
1865570;1540395094;asciilifeform;Mocky: relatedly to 'who's top' algo , you may find the method illustrated in FG to be of interest, http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis/tree/fg.v#L269 ( tldr : it's a straight 'foot race', and, for physical reasons, never ends in a 'tie' in practice )
1865571;1540395142;asciilifeform;sorta like the ancient algo where two boys hold a stick and break it
1865572;1540395278;asciilifeform;now, for an erryday piece of critical gear like otptron, i'd prefer an algo that ~provably~ terminates with correct (i.e. opposite polarity) pair, rather than 'oh it never ties in practice cuz no 2 crystals are exactly same' thing.
1865573;1540395299;asciilifeform;( the FG master/slave mechanism is only used in test benching )
1865574;1540396017;asciilifeform;Mocky: come to think of it, the FG algo is applicable: the endpoint who speaks first, gets to be 'left', and the one who ack's first -- 'right'.
1865575;1540396125;asciilifeform;the chance of deadlock is vanishingly small, esp. if you include a random delay during power-up, so that even if for some perverse reason 'a' and 'b' are started off the same power supply , they cannot deadlock.
1865576;1540397021;asciilifeform;bvt: on contemplation, i'm thinking possibly mips should simply get own v-branch, if we ever actually get hold of a mips.
1865577;1540397059;asciilifeform;complicating proggy simply because there's 1 broken system somewhere, is not imho a winning proposition.
1865578;1540397158;asciilifeform;lessee what mircea_popescu thinks; this is a classic example of the type of knot i rely on him to cut.
1865579;1540398724;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865574 >> I quite like that actually
1865580;1540398724;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 15:46 asciilifeform: Mocky: come to think of it, the FG algo is applicable: the endpoint who speaks first, gets to be 'left', and the one who ack's first -- 'right'.
1865581;1540399843;asciilifeform;Mocky ( and for the l0gz ) -- if it aint obvious from the FG src : the thing spends first six ticks of the clock on powerup listening for signs of a working external clock on CLK pin; if it finds one (i.e. it's pulled high on board, and can only fall low if there's a 'master' connected) it becomes 'slave' until powerdown.
1865582;1540399900;Mocky;aye
1865583;1540399903;asciilifeform;( slave disables his own clock, and makes use of master's )
1865584;1540400001;asciilifeform;again for the l0gz/n00bz: this worx in practice, even if 2 boxes are started off same power supply, because of inescapable variation in the size of the power intake capacitors on each FG
1865585;1540400026;asciilifeform;so revv-up time is never same for 2 units
1865586;1540400129;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/photo/yoke.jpg << actual photo of procedure.
1865587;1540400236;Mocky;unrelatedly, the miami in these filipinas and africans is off the fucking charts. they literally cannot sniff even a whiff of 'america aint that great' without spitting out 'america is the best, how could you even think it's not'
1865588;1540400258;Mocky;they are in qatar cuz they lost the lottery for who gets to go to usa
1865589;1540400281;asciilifeform;a 500 $ tourist ticket would cure'em in a week, but who would buy it for rando orc.
1865590;1540400312;Mocky;no dude, they have fambly there who love it. they would love too!
1865591;1540400339;asciilifeform;hey, nyc needs cabbies, and how to get'em without this 'family wrote, luvvvs it' procedure.
1865592;1540400374;asciilifeform;it's how, not unrelatedly, asciilifeform ended up being marooned in usa, to begin with
1865593;1540400399;asciilifeform;father: 'hey, sister wrote, luvvvs it'
1865594;1540400457;Mocky;also i was surprised to hear nigerians talking about how dumb nigerians are. how they have money in nigeria but they are to dumb to do anything useful with it
1865595;1540400514;asciilifeform;lol where on planet3 does one find that mythical place, that hasmoney + notdumb
1865596;1540400640;asciilifeform;not entirely unrelatedly, Mocky do you have a FG with you ?
1865597;1540400654;asciilifeform;might be useful item to show the heathens.
1865598;1540400678;Mocky;they have money here and there are a lot things that are notdumb. especially when compared to africa
1865599;1540400682;Mocky;no I do not
1865600;1540400708;asciilifeform;Mocky: are you able to receive mail ?
1865601;1540400797;Mocky;I think I can open an account with some specific company locally and have receive dhl shipments. it's how they get stuff from amazon
1865602;1540400853;Mocky;otherwise it gets stuck in customs i hear
1865603;1540400880;asciilifeform;when mircea_popescu wakes up, we'll see what he says re taking one of asciilifeform's seekrit spares and sending Mocky sample.
1865604;1540400942;asciilifeform;Mocky: so see if you can get a postbox, or something like it, if it's practical.
1865605;1540400966;asciilifeform;it is my understanding that you'll need a postbox to open company, pretty much anywhere, regardless
1865606;1540400973;Mocky;Ok i'll find out and report back
1865607;1540401023;asciilifeform;my logic : seems like Mocky is in one of those orcistans where the heathens luvv shiny things.
1865608;1540401034;asciilifeform;a working FG could go a long way, potentially.
1865609;1540401063;Mocky;you need a physical office space to be inspected to get the trade license and open company, so external not needed for that
1865610;1540401082;Mocky;and it has god dammed flashing lights too, no?
1865611;1540401101;asciilifeform;Mocky: in usa i found that i had to get a postbox simply to get a lease for office that has own postbox, 'catch-22', but possib. other places moar sane
1865612;1540401109;asciilifeform;Mocky: indeed flashing lights
1865613;1540401415;Mocky;yeah something physical in hand that already works probably would be good cred
1865614;1540401475;asciilifeform;what i dun presently know is, just how fascist are the customs in Mockystan
1865615;1540401491;asciilifeform;i.e. whether it is even possible to get Mocky a box prior to his expedition time running out
1865616;1540401499;asciilifeform;but imho it's worth a shot.
1865617;1540401518;asciilifeform;Mocky: you're , what, 2 weeks into your 8 ? or what was it
1865618;1540401536;Mocky;i'll hit some people up tonight and I'll be hanging with a few dozen westerners tomorrow night at the four seasons, i'll bring it up there too
1865619;1540401589;Mocky;yeah today was day 15/56 so 41 to go
1865620;1540401590;asciilifeform;what i also dun know, is how well this meshes with Mocky/mircea_popescu's mission in Mockystan, presumably Mocky was not sent specifically to sell FG or mircea_popescu would have issued one already. so lessee what mircea_popescu says 1st.
1865621;1540401685;asciilifeform;i can't picture how it could hurt, tho. having a working artifact in yer hand readily distinguishes you from the indian 'my CREATIVE BIZNISS IDEA!111' folx.
1865622;1540401696;Mocky;zackly
1865623;1540402479;BingoBoingo;!Q later tell trinque http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VsgXk/?raw=true
1865624;1540402479;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
1865625;1540402601;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> otherwise it gets stuck in customs i hear << BWAHAHAHAHAHA, Very Uruguay of them
1865626;1540402734;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> no dude, they have fambly there who love it. they would love too! << Ask them if their families voted for Trump or if they actually instead hate America
1865627;1540403670;asciilifeform;!Q later tell bvt i left a comment on your www, should be in your queue
1865628;1540403670;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1865629;1540403689;Mocky;BingoBoingo, met up with a canadian teacher today who asked *me* if I voted for trump, i told her she was funny
1865630;1540403754;BingoBoingo;I tell all the Latinas who will listen that I voted Trump
1865631;1540403856;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nao i'm curious, how do they typically respond
1865632;1540403867;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: With curiosity.
1865633;1540403886;asciilifeform;lol neato
1865634;1540403923;BingoBoingo;I explain Trump is a clow who tells you what he is going to do, but Clitler is a backstabbing liar who surprises you with her evil acts, just like Hussein Bahama
1865635;1540403965;Mocky;now if trump had promised to build a wall around D.C., then may have voted lol
1865636;1540403967;BingoBoingo;Honest clown beats treacherous mula
1865637;1540404039;BingoBoingo;I also tell them I am a fan of Bolnasoro in Brazil. And to that I respond "No soy un puto rosa"
1865638;1540404078;BingoBoingo;"Trabajo sí, Samba despues"
1865639;1540404159;asciilifeform;s/rosa/roso ?
1865640;1540404777;BingoBoingo;In this case though not gramatically correct, the gender mismatch is intentional for emphasis.
1865641;1540404881;asciilifeform;in ru prison tradition, was sorta opposite formula, when they lowered a d00d into pederasty, would give'im a gurl's name, but still address as 'he'
1865642;1540405078;BingoBoingo;Bad spanish comes in two flavors: Intelligible and Unitelligable. The Uruguayos have all sorts of sayings that aren't translatable to proper spanish, which they use for ingroup signallying. This means bad spanish intentionally used against the Uruguayos and Uruguayas needs to be A/B tested.
1865643;1540405140;asciilifeform;arguably the only place where 'proper' spanish is cervantes. errybody else some variant of real-life
1865644;1540405184;BingoBoingo;The declaration that one isn't a pink manhooker isn't something the Uruguayos would say, but they understand it.
1865645;1540405469;mod6;asciilifeform: can you confirm that the bastard blocks that were listed here http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4GZTO/?raw=true were caputred at the same time as the pcap that you pasted?
1865646;1540405518;asciilifeform;mod6: they were not. see log, i set up the tcpdump ~after~
1865647;1540405547;asciilifeform;though it is possible that some or all of'em were received again and ended up in there, later
1865648;1540405606;asciilifeform;i dun have a tcpdump on that thing at all times, lol, no amt of disk count conceivably suffice
1865649;1540405608;mod6;see that's what I thought.
1865650;1540405626;asciilifeform;*could conceivably
1865651;1540405641;mod6;That they were captured at different times.  I dug through the pcap for the 'prev' hashes that were listed in the paste, all the ones that I spot checked were in there.
1865652;1540405661;mod6;So looks like idiot kept sending the same ones over and over.
1865653;1540405666;asciilifeform;mod6: the shitnoad sends ~same miniature blox , pretty much, again & again
1865654;1540405678;mod6;confirmed, from what I'm seeing.
1865655;1540405727;asciilifeform;the 1 puzzler is why the derp back-dated'em; if the related tardstalk piece is to be believed, the particular shitcoin did not exist in 2015
1865656;1540405752;bvt;comment approved, i would do a writeup on this topic (so far ETA middle of next week, this sunday night very optimistically).
1865657;1540405752;lobbesbot;bvt: Sent 34 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i left a comment on your www, should be in your queue
1865658;1540405754;mod6;maybe an attempt at some sort of replay?
1865659;1540405789;asciilifeform;mod6: either that or '1 man band', mined'em all, and forgot to set his clock..
1865660;1540405801;asciilifeform;i can't picture against whom such 'replay' would possibly do anyffing, tho
1865661;1540405834;asciilifeform;bvt: ty
1865662;1540405937;asciilifeform;mod6: i think there's also an ordinary (as they go) prb noad mixed into that pcap
1865663;1540405940;asciilifeform;but dun recall exactly.
1865664;1540405957;asciilifeform;( recall, i saved whole /16 from each range )
1865665;1540406046;mod6;*nod* Ok.  T'was interesting anyway.  Cheers.
1865666;1540406105;asciilifeform;speaking moar generally of replays -- because of the idjit method shitoshi used for block-gettin', where 1 peer can ~monopolize connection for just about as long as he wants -- a stock trb node , syncing from empty, is in fact in a position to be fed just about arbitrarily long replay chain. which is why my interest in sane checkpoint variant.
1865667;1540406169;asciilifeform;theoretically it'll get reorg'd when honest noad later connects. but afaik this has not been tested, i personally do not know if a 1000+ -blocks reorg will succeed.
1865668;1540406256;asciilifeform;current flagship trb cannot be replayed 'from genesis', but can be from 168000, per http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L3542 .
1865669;1540406284;mod6;right, could be worth a test and perhaps the 'cement' suggestion.
1865670;1540406328;mod6;(if it doesn't take too much time to look into anyway, could be interesting data)
1865671;1540406354;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu was not fond of 'cement', because sees (correctly) that it is a kludge. but imho given the single-threaded classical trb, it or something like it, is necessary
1865672;1540406419;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865668 >> err, from 168001, to be pedantic
1865673;1540406419;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 18:37 asciilifeform: current flagship trb cannot be replayed 'from genesis', but can be from 168000, per http://btcbase.org/patches/genesis#L3542 .
1865674;1540406739;asciilifeform;mod6: in fact, and iirc i discussed this 2y or so ago in the l0g, by my current understanding of the reorg mechanism, it is possible to wedge ~any~ noad by throwing a specially- 'retro'-mined block with a higher work delta than the 'genuine' one at a particular point. then reorg dun trigger at all.
1865675;1540406755;asciilifeform;well, any syncing-from-ground noad.
1865676;1540406797;asciilifeform;the only practical defense against this is checkpointing, afaik. ( the prb folx tried to defend with 'orphanage', but with finite ram this does not actually solve the problem in the general case, simply ensures that different noades will wedge at different times )
1865677;1540406879;asciilifeform;( and i'll add that 'i sync all my new noades from existing ones' is a form of checkpointing , yer still weaseling out of using 'strictly clean' http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-22#1865227 mechanism , there )
1865678;1540406879;a111;Logged on 2018-10-22 22:54 mircea_popescu: lots of things give this "make sure you have same blocks".
1865679;1540406993;asciilifeform;even the act of looking at the heights of other nodes, with naked eye, when syncing your own, is a primitive form of checkpointism.
1865680;1540407026;asciilifeform;( if were working strictly 'by the net rules', no one would ever do this, 'i have a node, it knows what the world height is', but this is not the actual practice )
1865681;1540407146;asciilifeform;consider the frequent lament 'my node is stuck'. how do you ~know~ that ~yours~ is stuck, and not the world.
1865682;1540407148;mod6;Ok, yeah. I still need to go back and re-read the ~last week of logs so I'm up to speed.
1865683;1540407173;asciilifeform;the fact that this q gets asked at all, is proof that the network does not actually rise to the level of full automatism.
1865684;1540407492;asciilifeform;i strongly suspect that the general case of 'establish the troo historic longest chain, strictly from the network, consisting of arbitrary portions of honest and dishonest nodes', without some variant of cement, is not solvable in general case
1865685;1540407522;asciilifeform;or, not in finite space/time, at any rate
1865686;1540407552;asciilifeform;and yes a node you plug in today ~will~ likely sync, but this is only because the noise floor is low enuff.
1865687;1540407658;asciilifeform;it's really a classic example, imho, of a mechanism that requires wot ( and ergo, an out-of-band forcing knob, 'no, you do not get to rewrite history, even if you have 9000 sybils' )
1865688;1540408027;asciilifeform;really, anyffing that happened 1000+ blox ago, oughta be considered permanent, even if martians land.
1865689;1540408184;mod6;for sure
1865690;1540411033;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865503 << i threw your patch on btcbase, it looks good, though i'm not sure i agree with the decision to put temp file in /tmp. the point of putting it in same hierarchy as press, was to avoid the whole cross-file-system issue
1865691;1540411033;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 21:41 bvt: a better write-up on the vpatch temporary file creation: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3
1865692;1540411033;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 2 days, 2 hours, and 23 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> in bolix lulz : loox like dks relisted that 'ivory' for 3rd time nao... apparently not so many eager-worth-of-$5k archaeologists any moar
1865693;1540411293;phf;i grok the reasoning, but there are two issues: as of right now nobody's mounting to nfs, but at least in my stack tmp is not always as secure as other places i might be pressing, and the patch doesn't respect the environment TMP/TMPDIR convention.
1865694;1540411324;asciilifeform;ohai phf
1865695;1540411342;phf;old time reader, first time writer!
1865696;1540411418;phf;i'm preparing for an extensive jump to moscow, so i've not really had much time to speak
1865697;1540411425;asciilifeform;neato
1865698;1540411442;BingoBoingo;Sweet
1865699;1540411449;asciilifeform;ru.tmsr corp when !
1865700;1540411456;BingoBoingo;Don't forget to pack the camera
1865701;1540412448;phf;yeah, this time around i'll have plenty of time to investigate all the ru corp details, and also photos
1865702;1540412506;bvt;hi, phf! i can provide a follow-up vpatch for respecting TMP/TMPDIR
1865703;1540412548;asciilifeform;phf: see if you can figure out wtf happened to zeptobars, also... ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-19#1863863 )
1865704;1540412548;a111;Logged on 2018-10-19 01:41 asciilifeform: zeptobars seems pretty dead; their site is up, but pretty sure that all of the pics therein, were there last yr
1865705;1540412592;bvt;would you consider /tmp security issue resolved from vpatch's view if TMP/TMPDIR is respected?
1865706;1540412856;phf;bvt: i think it's fine as is. scratch your own itch and all that
1865707;1540412936;phf;i think it's an open question for the logs, whether or not /tmp is canonical place for putting temporary files, and whether or not writing a copy of what's being pressed in some arbitrary place (for all practical purposes) is a good idea
1865708;1540413069;phf;i like to keep things red/black, so that e.g. red disk plates go into tomato soup at some point, but considering how leaky the whole system is, there's not really a red/black within the same machine anyway
1865709;1540416397;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/media-force-bomb-identity-on-to-harmless-packages-in-attempt-to-forment-hysteria/ << Qntra - Media Force "Bomb" Identity On To Harmless Packages In Attempt To Forment Hysteria
1865710;1540418595;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: s/fellow though/fellow thought
1865711;1540418770;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865708 << if pc iron had its shit together, there would not even need to be such a thing as 'red' disk -- only (temporarily) 'red' sram, and buncha freely backed up 'black' disk.
1865712;1540418770;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 20:31 phf: i like to keep things red/black, so that e.g. red disk plates go into tomato soup at some point, but considering how leaky the whole system is, there's not really a red/black within the same machine anyway
1865713;1540418859;asciilifeform;( 'red', for n00bz / folx far from usa culture -- refers to 'contains seekritz' )
1865714;1540418917;asciilifeform;iirc the colouring was originally of telephone cables, in ww2-era us army.
1865715;1540419068;asciilifeform;phf: funnily enuff, just about erry year i briefly contemplate baking a sane disk crypter, but always run against same wall -- sata interface is ~unobtainable outside of reich-asics
1865716;1540419133;asciilifeform;( usb controllers, on other hand, appear to -- without any known exception -- suffer from http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-22#1282100 and related )
1865717;1540419133;a111;Logged on 2015-09-22 03:01 asciilifeform: speaking of, last i checked, 'trezor' was still reflashable from the usb jack.
1865718;1540419274;asciilifeform;( for the l0gz : from asciilifeform's pov, 'sane disk crypter' is an item that gets keyed via onboard keyboard jack, e.g. serpents, the attached disk, and unkeyed when powered off or at the closing of a contact attached to $whatever )
1865719;1540419311;asciilifeform;key lives in sram, which gets waltzed with rng whenever unkeyed and power is available.
1865720;1540419430;asciilifeform;( the problem of ciphering a block device in such a way as to avoid the penguin ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-24#1590007 ) is tricky but not insurmountable )
1865721;1540419430;a111;Logged on 2016-12-24 01:46 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: all schemes where the transform is of 'payload itself' and 0 entropy, suffer from immediate 'penguin problem', https://blog.filippo.io/content/images/2015/11/Tux_ecb.jpg .
1865722;1540419662;asciilifeform;the 1 non-negotiable aspect is that there must be 0 pc-side involvement in or awareness of the thing.
1865723;1540419687;asciilifeform;( pc-os/fw-based disk crypters are retarded, iirc subj was well covered in old thrds )
1865724;1540419766;asciilifeform;ideally you want device with ~no~ flash storage at all on the pcb, to avoid even theoretical possibility of retaining bits of key when unkeyed.
1865725;1540420679;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: s/forment/foment
1865726;1540421234;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: ty, fxd
1865727;1540430667;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in today's gnat retardations : apparently it is impossible to use ( but can define!!!11 just fine ! ) a generic that takes a String as 'in', without secondary stack.
1865728;1540430689;asciilifeform;because somebody's mother dropped him etc
1865729;1540430772;asciilifeform;previously , from last 2+yrs of reading docs, i laboured under the impression that the only process that demands secondary stack, is ~returning~ variably-lengthed objects. rather than simply passing'em forward as 'in' param. which in erry context OTHER than generic, worx .
1865730;1540430788;asciilifeform;diana_coman, phf , et al ^
1865731;1540430901;asciilifeform;( how ran into this : sneak preview of mmap demo : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VDYWv/?raw=true << path is set cleanly, as part of the generic invocation. but turns out this dun work (unless secondarystackism is enabled) , as somewhere internally it tries to ~return~ the string
1865732;1540430955;asciilifeform;fucking outrageous.
1865733;1540442930;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865348 << not bad.
1865734;1540442930;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 13:44 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865312 << ideally we oughta bake the new one, with ice40 & scintillator, imho
1865735;1540443057;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865364 << might be, actually. wanna price a minimal and a reasonable asic run ?
1865736;1540443057;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 14:09 asciilifeform: if this were a bake-by-the-thousands product, we could bake asic. but currently this is not realistic imho
1865737;1540443083;mircea_popescu;not wasted effort even if we don't end up baking it, logs will reflect a dated pricepoint, which is soemthing.
1865738;1540443259;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865373 << and register = 4096 bits, of course. yup.
1865739;1540443259;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 14:19 asciilifeform: i'ma describe , for the l0gz : ideal cpu for crypto would be something quite like the schoolbook mips.v -- no cache, no branch prediction, no pipeline, no dram controller (run off sram strictly), a set of large regs for multiply-shift , and dedicated pipe to FG (i.e. have single-instruction that fills a register with entropy )
1865740;1540443425;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865384 << i confess i don't understand what's being authenticated.
1865741;1540443425;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 15:57 asciilifeform: i'ma let mircea_popescu ponder whether this kind of thing is worth doing
1865742;1540443464;mircea_popescu;what, the supposed interloper can't hash is the idea ?
1865743;1540443520;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865401 << this is perennial wank in the style of "not a true church" etc. xtian minds at work.
1865744;1540443520;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 17:11 asciilifeform: ( nao i'm curious, what, by d00d's lights, is 'full node', and where might one get such a thing )
1865745;1540443858;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865742 << diddled cable, port, etc would not know the on-chip salt.
1865746;1540443858;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 04:57 mircea_popescu: what, the supposed interloper can't hash is the idea ?
1865747;1540443933;asciilifeform;( operator of box -- knows, it'd come printed on box, uniq per unit )
1865748;1540443957;asciilifeform;prolly not worth the bother, but in principle solid imho
1865749;1540444236;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865735 << i took a stab at this 2y ago, was very frustrating on acct of asic-baking not being a 'cash and carry' process like e.g. pcb-baking, but a heavily meat-powered affair where the derps want to 'get to know you' to figure out how much they can fleece
1865750;1540444236;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 04:50 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865364 << might be, actually. wanna price a minimal and a reasonable asic run ?
1865751;1540444453;asciilifeform;there's a coupla 'small scale' fabs, but on close examination smell like ripoff, they ship with literally 0 guarantee of yield , and in laughable qty , and with laughable transistor count, and -- to add insult to injury -- die packaging not included, you gotta somehow find someone to do it, somewhere
1865752;1540444499;asciilifeform;granted in past 2y since i last looked, the mythical beast of 'small fab' could have been born
1865753;1540444566;asciilifeform;( i omit to mention ~large~ fabs, given as if you aint representing a large and known $$$ concern, they dun even return calls )
1865754;1540444701;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865738 << 8192 , if can be fit, then can have 4096b rsa without 'bignum', lol
1865755;1540444701;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 04:54 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865373 << and register = 4096 bits, of course. yup.
1865756;1540444757;*;asciilifeform bbl
1865757;1540444996;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so let them get to know you ; nothing wrong with derps hearing of the most serene republic.
1865758;1540445062;mircea_popescu;re-doing this every few years seems eminently 'dammi tempu ca ti perciu'.
1865759;1540445873;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865505 << likely someone's "creative" "altcoin"/"ico"/whatever reusing satoshi codebase and incorrectly isolating itself.
1865760;1540445873;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 22:30 asciilifeform: defo seems to be a misconfigured/maliciously-configged shitfork noad, none of the tx hashes in the inv's line up with anything from human planet
1865761;1540445944;mircea_popescu;o wait...
1865762;1540447925;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=65 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/20/2018
1865763;1540453544;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865729 -> ugh; I think I might have even seen this at some point before but I did not investigate it
1865764;1540453544;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 01:26 asciilifeform: previously , from last 2+yrs of reading docs, i laboured under the impression that the only process that demands secondary stack, is ~returning~ variably-lengthed objects. rather than simply passing'em forward as 'in' param. which in erry context OTHER than generic, worx .
1865765;1540455178;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865550 << this sounds sad.
1865766;1540455178;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 14:15 asciilifeform: the .c absolutely gotta be bug-free tho, or it sinks yer whole proggy
1865767;1540455395;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865576 << yes.
1865768;1540455395;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 16:03 asciilifeform: bvt: on contemplation, i'm thinking possibly mips should simply get own v-branch, if we ever actually get hold of a mips.
1865769;1540455408;mircea_popescu;portability via vtree rather than ifdefs/wrappers/etc.
1865770;1540455529;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865587 << sad way to go through life ; but then again bulgarians thought "byzantine is best" way into 1200s.
1865771;1540455529;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 16:57 Mocky: unrelatedly, the miami in these filipinas and africans is off the fucking charts. they literally cannot sniff even a whiff of 'america aint that great' without spitting out 'america is the best, how could you even think it's not'
1865772;1540455663;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865590 << one time, a moron/filipina/african/whatever got $500 together, and in preference of buying indoor plumbing, or a gf/goat/whatever, bought miami ticket. once there, discovered it sucks terribly. first impulse was to leave a very scathingly honest review on miami.yelp ; but in the 18 minutes the page took to load (hurray for "modern" ux2.0 pid eins!) they changed their mind, left ver
1865773;1540455663;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 16:58 Mocky: no dude, they have fambly there who love it. they would love too!
1865774;1540455663;mircea_popescu;y flattering review instead.
1865775;1540455681;mircea_popescu;"if i tell truth -- moron cousins back home laugh at me ; if i tell lie, they also come over -- i laugh at them."
1865776;1540455708;mircea_popescu;there's a reason crabs never discover zanzibar and nigerians in a pot never get out. the reason is -- THAT VERY FAMBLY.
1865777;1540455792;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865605 << i wouldn't send him supplies he doesn't ask for. let the man actually do something useful.
1865778;1540455792;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 17:09 asciilifeform: it is my understanding that you'll need a postbox to open company, pretty much anywhere, regardless
1865779;1540455902;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865631 << females will be negative to betas and "curious" to alpha irrespective what they say.
1865780;1540455902;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 17:57 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nao i'm curious, how do they typically respond
1865781;1540455977;mircea_popescu;"Intelligible and Unitelligable" << bwahaha. it's still unintelligible, what, the root changes if you derive it ?
1865782;1540456247;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865674 << you're too focused on this "node is a battleship" pov. nodes ocme in herds, they're zerglings not protoss.
1865783;1540456247;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 18:45 asciilifeform: mod6: in fact, and iirc i discussed this 2y or so ago in the l0g, by my current understanding of the reorg mechanism, it is possible to wedge ~any~ noad by throwing a specially- 'retro'-mined block with a higher work delta than the 'genuine' one at a particular point. then reorg dun trigger at all.
1865784;1540456336;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865690 << can not put files above . !
1865785;1540456336;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 19:57 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865503 << i threw your patch on btcbase, it looks good, though i'm not sure i agree with the decision to put temp file in /tmp. the point of putting it in same hierarchy as press, was to avoid the whole cross-file-system issue
1865786;1540456371;mircea_popescu;IF your program puts something in /tmp, your . is /, and live with that (i for instance will never sign such a monstrosity, unless it's the os/kernel itself)
1865787;1540456396;mircea_popescu;put stuff in ./tmp like sane ppl instead wtf.
1865788;1540456539;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865707 << ./tmp is the "cannonical" place for putting "temporary" files ; but only in the sense that ./<label> is the place one'd expect <label> files to end up. it's only cannonical in the sense of cockblocking idiotic unixisms and other moronnicals.
1865789;1540456539;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 20:28 phf: i think it's an open question for the logs, whether or not /tmp is canonical place for putting temporary files, and whether or not writing a copy of what's being pressed in some arbitrary place (for all practical purposes) is a good idea
1865790;1540456760;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865731 << this is actually pretty dubious. where internally ?
1865791;1540456760;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 01:28 asciilifeform: ( how ran into this : sneak preview of mmap demo : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VDYWv/?raw=true << path is set cleanly, as part of the generic invocation. but turns out this dun work (unless secondarystackism is enabled) , as somewhere internally it tries to ~return~ the string
1865792;1540459584;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865707 << i see a point re not writing above ./; will reimplement using ./tmp.
1865793;1540459584;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 20:28 phf: i think it's an open question for the logs, whether or not /tmp is canonical place for putting temporary files, and whether or not writing a copy of what's being pressed in some arbitrary place (for all practical purposes) is a good idea
1865794;1540459652;bvt;this was re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865784
1865795;1540459652;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 08:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865690 << can not put files above . !
1865796;1540459698;bvt;given that there is a single temporary file -- would ./ also work? ./tmp directory would have to be separately created and removed, and the less unix fs is touched, the better, i guess.
1865797;1540475034;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865782 << dun matter if yer an admiral, or emperor, you got 1 arse. the node you ~generate~ tx on, ~is~ a battleship.
1865798;1540475034;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 08:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865674 << you're too focused on this "node is a battleship" pov. nodes ocme in herds, they're zerglings not protoss.
1865799;1540475099;asciilifeform;not to mention that even 'soldier' noad, is not actually cheap, costs like horse not like goat. ( considering that you want ssd, something like a respectable net pipe, uninterrupted current, distance from mordor, if available, etc )
1865800;1540475374;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865788 << separated '/tmp' is not imho entirely worthless, i've set up boxen where it lives in ramdisk, where imho it belongs
1865801;1540475374;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 08:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865707 << ./tmp is the "cannonical" place for putting "temporary" files ; but only in the sense that ./<label> is the place one'd expect <label> files to end up. it's only cannonical in the sense of cockblocking idiotic unixisms and other moronnicals.
1865802;1540475381;asciilifeform;ssd wear is a thing.
1865803;1540475415;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865777 << aite, we can revisit if he asks
1865804;1540475415;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 08:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865605 << i wouldn't send him supplies he doesn't ask for. let the man actually do something useful.
1865805;1540475492;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865758 << imho worth linking to the prev thread : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1579598
1865806;1540475492;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 05:24 mircea_popescu: re-doing this every few years seems eminently 'dammi tempu ca ti perciu'.
1865807;1540475492;a111;Logged on 2016-12-08 03:13 asciilifeform: 'cmp', the other co. linked from trinque's old link, has actual PRICES!111 -- http://cmp.imag.fr/IMG/pdf/cmp_prices_schedule_sept-16.pdf
1865808;1540475574;asciilifeform;( the other sub-$1mil fab is mosis co., but it is in usa, serves primarily usg, and dun publish prices, in the past i tried to get estimate from it but without success )
1865809;1540475587;asciilifeform;current cmp co. price schedule >> https://mycmp.fr/technologies/price-list.html
1865810;1540475979;asciilifeform;here's what i was able to find , via the pdf turd : base charge is 700 -- 12000 euro / mm^2 , depending on density ( 0.35uM to 28nm ); this gets you 25 ~bare~ dies , + 'phree 15 if available' ;
1865811;1540475982;asciilifeform;plus 'shipping and eu export fees'. but the other big hit is packaging cost : 30 - 100 eu. ~per chip~, depending on # of contacts / shape of can.
1865812;1540476014;asciilifeform;a reasonable die is 4-10 mm^2 .
1865813;1540476039;asciilifeform;( if yer baking cpu, or fpga, or other item large enuff to make the game worth the candles )
1865814;1540476120;asciilifeform;nao multiply it all by 2 or 3, because that's how many shots it usually takes to properly polish off ic product.
1865815;1540476349;asciilifeform;sooo taking only the lower bounds ( 4mm^2 ; 700 eu. per mm^2 ; 30 eu. per tin can ) and not counting eu fees / taxes / exorbitant shipping couriers , and assuming 25 , we end up with a figure of 3550 eu, 'old toyota' gets you 25 units, some of which may even work...
1865816;1540476395;asciilifeform;per my reckoning, you can ~maybe~ fit a '386' in these.
1865817;1540476407;asciilifeform;( ~300k transistor )
1865818;1540476431;asciilifeform;which is not so bad, quite enuff for a mips ( or even the old bolix , supposing anyone had the layout for it ) but laughably small for e.g. fpga.
1865819;1540476559;asciilifeform;the 3550 is per run, if it wasnt obv.
1865820;1540476718;asciilifeform;the other thing i oughta mention, is the amt of sweat required. if asciilifeform were a free man, could do it in perhaps a year. but at present-day capacity, would not dare to even try.
1865821;1540476897;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865790 << i sat for 2h last night reading 'standard' and 'rationale', and was not able to determine ! will require extensive dig into the gnat src, i suspect.
1865822;1540476897;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 08:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865731 << this is actually pretty dubious. where internally ?
1865823;1540477322;mircea_popescu;sabotage!
1865824;1540478947;mircea_popescu;bvt *thumbsup*
1865825;1540479146;mircea_popescu;up to you whether to make a dir or not ; eventually these will end up in that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865314 -- but the only way that happens is if you try things and then productively disagree with people. i've nfi at the moment whether we do or we don't want single temp files in a tmp dir nevertheless, or anything else ; and i absolutely do not wish to ever do (or will ever permit anyone to) sit around and "think
1865826;1540479146;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 06:31 mircea_popescu: slowly but surely a republican ada style manual is shaping up (and through the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865304 process, at that!)
1865827;1540479147;mircea_popescu; about" with a view to "decide" "how it should be". we'll find out the natural way, there's no need for badly written fanfic.
1865828;1540479289;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865802 << yeah, sure. and we'll have this luxury again once tmsr-os. because as it is right now, the option is not actually available.
1865829;1540479289;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 13:49 asciilifeform: ssd wear is a thing.
1865830;1540479347;mircea_popescu;much like we'll have the luxury of paying taxes (it IS a luxury, if they're correctly used it's way the fuck better to pay a twenny and snow mover to come in than for each to keep in shed, oiled and repaired, own minimover for own driveway) once there's tmsr.gov somewhere. and so on.
1865831;1540479431;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865811 << this is nonsense, no chip packaging costs a benjie wtf. and is the 700 per how many ?
1865832;1540479431;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 13:59 asciilifeform: plus 'shipping and eu export fees'. but the other big hit is packaging cost : 30 - 100 eu. ~per chip~, depending on # of contacts / shape of can.
1865833;1540479455;*;mircea_popescu has serious trouble reading that ; and would absolutely not buy anything from a french company anyway.
1865834;1540479491;mircea_popescu;(imagine -- item's been loading this entire interval, still not loaded).
1865835;1540479517;mircea_popescu;o look, 700 per 25. tell you what, if we find actual chinese supplier this'll be so fucking feasible...
1865836;1540479556;mircea_popescu;in any case asciilifeform : i am sure nsa would have no problem spending a coin or two on prototyping this.
1865837;1540480302;mircea_popescu;what you really need to do is take on an apprentice, to cut down on that year.\
1865838;1540480542;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865831 << it's a hand-cranked 'for small runs' shop, 1 of 2 known to exist. hence the riotous per-unit pricings.
1865839;1540480542;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 14:57 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865811 << this is nonsense, no chip packaging costs a benjie wtf. and is the 700 per how many ?
1865840;1540480553;asciilifeform;i expect they use meat hands, with microscopes, to package.
1865841;1540480587;asciilifeform;and yes if you instead spend 2-3mil you get wafer, cut, and package, from china etc. but we were discussing 'minimal' fabs..
1865842;1540480618;mircea_popescu;we were discussing the "2-3" figure.
1865843;1540480619;asciilifeform;it's sorta like the outfit we had FG pcb baked in, but moar extreme.
1865844;1540480630;mircea_popescu;eminently NOT discussing "here's how to not discuss what we're discussing".
1865845;1540480644;asciilifeform;hrm
1865846;1540480686;asciilifeform;i was originally speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865751 dig.
1865847;1540480686;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 05:14 asciilifeform: there's a coupla 'small scale' fabs, but on close examination smell like ripoff, they ship with literally 0 guarantee of yield , and in laughable qty , and with laughable transistor count, and -- to add insult to injury -- die packaging not included, you gotta somehow find someone to do it, somewhere
1865848;1540480703;asciilifeform;( and mircea_popescu seems to concur with my verdict, they're ripoffs )
1865849;1540480741;mircea_popescu;whereas the point is at http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865758 ; we would like to know how many bitcoin for a run today.
1865850;1540480741;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 05:24 mircea_popescu: re-doing this every few years seems eminently 'dammi tempu ca ti perciu'.
1865851;1540480771;asciilifeform;this screamingly cries for a cn-speaking fella.
1865852;1540480833;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1865853;1540480880;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865788 << thanks for the resolution, i wasn't sure if my insistence on my original (that is temp file in .) approach was sensible or not. "canonical" in this case was whether or not that's something we do, not whether or not that's something unix does
1865854;1540480880;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 08:35 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865707 << ./tmp is the "cannonical" place for putting "temporary" files ; but only in the sense that ./<label> is the place one'd expect <label> files to end up. it's only cannonical in the sense of cockblocking idiotic unixisms and other moronnicals.
1865855;1540480949;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: let's suppose we make the req'd contact. what wouldja want to fab 1st ?
1865856;1540480954;mircea_popescu;phf i dunno that it's set as "something we do" ; but it's certainly something we do in preference of "/tmp" much like we do things in preference of /dev/rand and other such bs.
1865857;1540480968;mircea_popescu;the fundamental issue is that linux acts "as if" it's in friendly territory ; which is eminently false.
1865858;1540480987;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what, the phb is supposed to come up with what ? you come up with three things let me pick, how about that!
1865859;1540481144;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've outlined several items, historically. will summarize for the l0gz, in order of descending ( per asciilifeform's lights ) universality : 1) sane fpga 2) sane minimal cpu 3) 8192-bit arithmetizer ( a la ye olde weitek! but for ints ) 4) 2+3 , if somehow can be fit into 1 die 5) 1chip carrierless radio ( per thread ) 6) sane ethernet controller .
1865860;1540481154;asciilifeform;possibly incomplete list, but roughly it.
1865861;1540481205;mircea_popescu;i dunno "fpga" is something that may be sane.
1865862;1540481228;asciilifeform;why not ? it's the simplest item, and theoretically the others can be made from it.
1865863;1540481249;mircea_popescu;a universal tsmr cpu, even if nothing more than miniaturized/updated z80, would prolly be the one gain here. so we end up with a commodity part to put in things.
1865864;1540481260;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform define "fpga" for me.
1865865;1540481273;asciilifeform;and pretty much the ideal 'nonspecificity of diddling' platform, it is quite impossible to meaningfully boobytrap fpga fabric if you don't have foreknowledge of what will go into it and precisely where.
1865866;1540481316;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall ice40 ? simple grid of LUTs, + matrix of programmable interconnects.
1865867;1540481344;asciilifeform;for that matter current FG is baked on fpga, from evil old xilinx.
1865868;1540481409;mircea_popescu;this is not a definition. define it.
1865869;1540481588;asciilifeform;buncha gates, as many as can fit, and a programmable switching matrix, a la old telco , look up tables made of 4-6 bits of sram that turn a given unit into 'and' , 'or', 'xor', half-adder, straight wire, whichever is necessary. i dun know how to more rigorously define, it is one of the simplest devices, straight homogeneous grid of sram cells plus a couple hundred (thousand, in larger devices) 'express lanes' made of straight metal,
1865870;1540481588;asciilifeform;to use as bus
1865871;1540481641;mircea_popescu;i can well define a hammer, one of the simplest devices.
1865872;1540481662;asciilifeform;'heavy iron head on a wooden stem'
1865873;1540481670;asciilifeform;same level of description
1865874;1540481671;mircea_popescu;there's two possible reasons you don't have a definition for a fpga you're happy with : either we're not yet enough advanced for one (to use, to make, whatever), or that it is ouytright an escher object.
1865875;1540481674;mircea_popescu;and i suspect the later.
1865876;1540481715;asciilifeform;FG is baked on fpga.
1865877;1540481721;asciilifeform;for 'escher object' it worx pretty well.
1865878;1540481738;mircea_popescu;but anyway, for my own use, fpga=wrapper around industrial poverty, somewhat like a painting that came with crayons.
1865879;1540481782;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the problem with escher objects is that "perpetuum mobile -- also works pretty well". it's what the fan always says, because "to my eyes" http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 sorta thing.
1865880;1540481782;a111;Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
1865881;1540481869;mircea_popescu;i believe attempting to go "everything's a fpga because fg worked ok on one" is learning the wrong lesson from fg, in the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-02#699427 sense.
1865882;1540481869;a111;Logged on 2014-06-02 22:49 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: jurov: smbx had perverse incentives (usg funding that appeared bottomless - until it died suddenly. reagan's 'star wars.') << best way to sink a good start-up is a bad revenue source early on.
1865883;1540481899;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for design that actually fits inside, you end with exactly 'slow asic', with the added win that it's a homogeneous object with no e.g. 'and here is where he will rsa and here is where the low bit of multiplier will live' sabotage target available to enemy mole in vendor plant.
1865884;1540481913;mircea_popescu;because no, "every picture comes with crayons now" is not very smart ; and it's perversely, recursively nonsmart ("can't make polaroid, no way to produce attachable crayons -- maybe 3d print them ???")
1865885;1540481939;asciilifeform;i disagree -- fpga is analogous to gutenberg's movable type; classical 'asic per design' to chinese whole-plate.
1865886;1540481940;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's better approaches to hanging moles than putting an ok button on every movement of every rifle.
1865887;1540481955;mircea_popescu;well, this dispute will have to be resolved cuz it's fucking important.
1865888;1540481970;mircea_popescu;i'm not particularly invested in being right about it ; but i'd better not be right and we end up with the wrong thing.
1865889;1540482012;asciilifeform;thing's existed since mid-80s, the pluses and minuses of it are well-documented
1865890;1540482028;mircea_popescu;i don't suspect they're well understood.
1865891;1540482040;asciilifeform;( orig ancestor was the PAL. there were PALs in yer ro 'spectrum' clone. )
1865892;1540482045;mircea_popescu;neither do you -- the minuses of the linux-c stack were actually not thortoughly understood until tmsr either.
1865893;1540482139;asciilifeform;there's 2 well-known minuses. 1 is that yer making circuit out of immovable parts, connected by drawing line though multiple elements ( bus lines are generally few ) , this gives you much slower circuit with many fewer logical elements than if you had made the device physically from scratch .
1865894;1540482188;asciilifeform;the other is political, all of the existing vendors obfuscate and keep seekrit the necessary docs to actually program the thing. ice40 happens to have been reversed, but it is ruinously small ( still ~150x bigger than the miniature xilinx i baked FG from, however , but too small even for 4096bit adder )
1865895;1540482200;mircea_popescu;the third is technological -- you learn to walk with crutch.
1865896;1540482211;mircea_popescu;this is my concern here.
1865897;1540482261;asciilifeform;what's the 'crutch' ? not spending a $3mil + 1yr delay if there's bug in layout , like 1970s folx had to ?
1865898;1540482265;mircea_popescu;now, a 4096 bit native fpga, specifically for rsa-ing and rsa-likes-ing, THAT might be very useful, because there the s-o-d item is major win.
1865899;1540482296;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes alf, that's what's always the crutch. "give just a little spring in yoru step for insurance against toads in the roads." that's precisely the crutch.
1865900;1540482301;asciilifeform;there's no 'bitness' in fpga, it's a bag of gates, if you have enuff of them you can made n-bit addder, divider, whatever one likes
1865901;1540482332;mircea_popescu;no but i mean, pre-bake it in 4096 bit chunks
1865902;1540482350;mircea_popescu;no bit. byte, of 4096 bit size. make n-byte adder, sure.
1865903;1540482357;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is actually how existing ic industry worx, a good half of the 'asics' are actually 'hard copy fpga', recall the early miner derps threads.
1865904;1540482367;asciilifeform;they prototype on ordinary, sram-based one, then pay to have it metallized.
1865905;1540482382;mircea_popescu;so it's how the "industry" works. http://trilema.com/2016/tangerine/ is how the "music industry" works.
1865906;1540482414;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you realise "soviets imported windowze" was precisely s. s. sovietovski saying "this is how industry works" in 1980.
1865907;1540482439;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the sad bit is that conventional asic process , as available today in cn , tw, etc, is also like this. you are forced to use 'standard cells' supplied by vendor.
1865908;1540482446;asciilifeform;they giv'em under nda, too.
1865909;1540482457;mircea_popescu;yes well. how about we bake out of this, rather than into this.
1865910;1540482479;asciilifeform;as i currently understand, that means vertical integration, i.e. building the plant.
1865911;1540482481;asciilifeform;$B.
1865912;1540482494;mircea_popescu;ie, i can't fucking have an arbitrary chip made.
1865913;1540482513;mircea_popescu;if i wanted the center caret of z80 rotated 90 degrees and printed, i could not get this done.
1865914;1540482532;asciilifeform;i wouldn't go so far as 'can't', but we're talking 'lease $B plant for 6mo.' sort of figure.
1865915;1540482565;asciilifeform;it is not available as off-the-shelf service anywhere, afaik, nope.
1865916;1540482594;mircea_popescu;the exact digits in there are the question here.
1865917;1540482601;asciilifeform;i found this out the last time we had 'let's bake ic' thread, and it was thoroughly depressing, put me off subj for 2y..
1865918;1540482610;mircea_popescu;yes. but it's been 2 years.
1865919;1540482617;mircea_popescu;are you saying the reeval cycle is too tight ?
1865920;1540482621;asciilifeform;lol
1865921;1540482630;asciilifeform;the exact figs can only be obtained by a cn-speaking emissary, i suspect.
1865922;1540482653;asciilifeform;and their magnitude will depend, i also suspect, on how well he plays his cards.
1865923;1540482700;asciilifeform;btw the reason, afaik, why erry fab house forces 'standard cells', is that they have proprietary tweaks to their process , and have lib of cells ( kept seekrit ) that are known to work with said process.
1865924;1540482720;asciilifeform;the actual physical procedure of baking the ic is not as standardized as i previously (to last thread) thought.
1865925;1540482730;mircea_popescu;indeed it is not.
1865926;1540482736;asciilifeform;it is at the level of 18th c. cannon-forging, roughly. erry house has 'seekrit sauce'.
1865927;1540482741;mircea_popescu;moreover, very 1820s steam engine airs hang about the entire barn
1865928;1540482746;mircea_popescu;oh im sorry, "industry"
1865929;1540482750;asciilifeform;noshit
1865930;1540482785;asciilifeform;imho the race for 'smallest transistor' has been a disaster of incaization -- in '70s there were thousands of ic makers, in '80s -- hundreds, in '90s -- dozens, today maybe 10 .
1865931;1540482818;asciilifeform;the plant gets ruinously costlier, per erry 'shrunk nanometre', and somehow gotta be amortized, and the competition gets thinner an' thinner
1865932;1540482833;asciilifeform;iirc we had a thread re 'ic is deeply incatronic tech' hypothesis
1865933;1540482835;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha.
1865934;1540482848;BingoBoingo;Kinda suggests the 2+3 option seems like it could be had sooner than a neutral field of gates FPGA
1865935;1540482893;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i doubt any of it belongs in same sentence with word 'soon', we're speaking of just short of mars colony.
1865936;1540482983;BingoBoingo;That's an exageration. This is more of a blank slate nitromethane internal combustion engine for freight hauling.
1865937;1540483046;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: vehehery different class of nre cost, vs engine.
1865938;1540483091;asciilifeform;much moar comparable to satellite biz. a 1-bit mistake costs you coupla $mil.
1865939;1540483133;asciilifeform;and the mistake can be in anyffing, incl. a physical interaction between unrelated components that you did not know were possible.
1865940;1540483164;mircea_popescu;incidentally, this bitmistake/milcost is the exact reason human genome is some % garbage.
1865941;1540483175;mircea_popescu;what exact % -- numeriuc application from those priors.
1865942;1540483191;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-18#1863686 thrd, yes
1865943;1540483191;a111;Logged on 2018-10-18 23:27 asciilifeform: nobody's ever built anyffin with even close to the noise tolerance of meat.
1865944;1540483210;mircea_popescu;indeed
1865945;1540483234;asciilifeform;diff in resilience of meat, and in the toughest worx of man, is much greater than e.g. speed diff between jet fighter and ox cart
1865946;1540483245;asciilifeform;nobody has anyffing on meat, period.
1865947;1540483246;BingoBoingo;Well, we could always try seeing how the Chicoms price modern Z80 implemented in cultured pig neurons
1865948;1540483248;mircea_popescu;and since we're on all this, let me point out that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865749 are very much our friends.
1865949;1540483248;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 05:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865735 << i took a stab at this 2y ago, was very frustrating on acct of asic-baking not being a 'cash and carry' process like e.g. pcb-baking, but a heavily meat-powered affair where the derps want to 'get to know you' to figure out how much they can fleece
1865950;1540483267;mircea_popescu;republic "can be fleeced" far in excess of their parent company's hallucinatory "market valuation". let them try.
1865951;1540483329;mircea_popescu;and i do not mean that in the negative, art all. literally, let them try, get to know us, figure things out, break their "assesorando" toolchain in the process....
1865952;1540483380;mircea_popescu;(the spanish reference comes from a famous incident in argentina where mp was trying to buy real estate, and idiot woman at desk's idea of the process was that she's now going to "assess" me. that blew up spectacularily if predictably.)
1865953;1540483432;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lol, didja walk in with 5kg of green ? and reply 'here, assess this'
1865954;1540483462;mircea_popescu;nope.
1865955;1540483476;mircea_popescu;cuz why would i.
1865956;1540483531;asciilifeform;well if not then how is the dealer to know that yer payment-capable, without 'assess'. or do i misperceive what that meant
1865957;1540483532;mircea_popescu;anyway, if i for some reason walk into dnc office odds are stupid fat woman will similarly misbehave ; and the "bitch, i diselected your ur-whore" isn't gonna happen there more than in messipissland.
1865958;1540483536;mircea_popescu;because, again, why would i.
1865959;1540483553;asciilifeform;they mostly deal with ~broke orcs, neh. who walk in and 'i want 'buy' house, but i have no money'
1865960;1540483572;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform suppose he lowers the tail and rolls over. "this is the inventory, please, take some, take any, for any price, save my chitlins, my wife's going mad with the hunger moans of the chitlins!!!"
1865961;1540483597;mircea_popescu;buncha retailers in their own mind.
1865962;1540483635;asciilifeform;reminds me of process of buying autos in usa. picture, you walk in with chequebook. 'i want toyota' --- 3 hrs later, you MAYBE drive off in a toyota, or more likely yer still fighting over 'no, i do NOT want loan, not at 3%, not 2, not 0 , i want to pay with money'
1865963;1540483657;mircea_popescu;(incidentally, the recurrent "ban shorts" nonsense is all about this -- the fundamental pantsuit promise is that "no one should ever have to go through the above". which, of course, is how they wrecked the marketplace.)
1865964;1540483666;asciilifeform;( see, if you pay with money, the poor fuck manning the desk makes 0 , he only makes if you pay interest )
1865965;1540483709;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2009/amuzamente-economice-in-romania/#selection-37.48-37.73 entirely same substance.
1865966;1540483750;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i saw truly mindboggling number of unfinished-and-decaying half-built houses in timis
1865967;1540483754;asciilifeform;this gotta be why
1865968;1540483764;mircea_popescu;yup. owner won't sell "at a loss".
1865969;1540483788;asciilifeform;i thought it was 'idjit commissioned build without checking whether he has the whole sum'
1865970;1540483806;asciilifeform;'we finishes cellar and half of ground floor, nao pay' '...'
1865971;1540483817;mircea_popescu;this is the argument against "indepenent owners" among the orcs, too, and in general -- they'll do insane things like keep property 10% occupied for $pricepoint, and ignore that $pricepoint * .1 comes to less net than $half-pricepoint * .6
1865972;1540483834;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and at this juncture, orc is supposed to SELL.
1865973;1540483846;asciilifeform;requires buyer, neh
1865974;1540483850;mircea_popescu;AT ANY PRICE.
1865975;1540483866;mircea_popescu;this is how a fucking market works, and what it is.
1865976;1540483877;asciilifeform;at some point he gives up guarding it, as it costs sumthing, and the gypsies move in, i suppose this can be seen as a form of 'sell'
1865977;1540483884;mircea_popescu;without this -- it's communism, admitted or not. either money works, or else it does not.
1865978;1540483895;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i see it as a form of idiocy.
1865979;1540483900;asciilifeform;well noshit
1865980;1540483910;asciilifeform;but the idjicy was baked into the act of commissioning the build
1865981;1540483923;mircea_popescu;exactly http://trilema.com/2017/in-scams-today-disk-less-terminal-sa-dba-laesquinadelamazmorra/#footnote_3_72501 problem.
1865982;1540483927;asciilifeform;when you haven't with what to pay the whole invoice, or anyone who might ever wish to buy it for even 1% of what it cost
1865983;1540483953;mircea_popescu;there is no such thing as "baken in" idiocy. idiocy is always actively maintained. in fact, idiocy is both the ultimate and the only http://trilema.com/2009/inchipuiti-va/ item.
1865984;1540484013;mircea_popescu;and this also speaks volumes as to the superiority of the 90s -- i personaly bought hruscheba apts in mining-zone-being-abandoned for color tvs and such expedients.
1865985;1540484028;asciilifeform;d00d commissions a 5-story hruscheba-castle in the middle of fucking wasteland. he's bankrupt the second he signs the paper, whether he doubles down later and goes broke-er or not, neh
1865986;1540484066;mircea_popescu;we're not talking wasteland or anything, this is all orc-"urban"
1865987;1540484125;asciilifeform;there was yet another level of idjicy in ro, that i discovered, where they won't sell the shit to foreigners
1865988;1540484153;asciilifeform;( even if half-castle owner is willing to sell, it gotta be to ~another~ orc )
1865989;1540485072;mircea_popescu;!#s nu ne vindem tara
1865990;1540485072;a111;0 results for "nu ne vindem tara", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=nu%20ne%20vindem%20tara
1865991;1540485096;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'родиной не торгую' (tm)(r)(stalin)
1865992;1540485109;mircea_popescu;of course, it's EMINENTLY for sale if usg.pantsuit wants it. just oyu know, god forbid any leak in the http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-you-become-grain/ process threatens to spring.
1865993;1540485136;asciilifeform;noshit
1865994;1540485192;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform is not labouring under delusion , however, that 'if only they sold, i could be sitting in $50k mircea_popescu-grade castle', prolly mitsubishi would own'em all )
1865995;1540485216;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-31#1730999 << see also.
1865996;1540485216;a111;Logged on 2017-10-31 15:15 asciilifeform: whole thing quite resembles the 'silver coin glued to the asphalt' everyone encounters in childhood
1865997;1540485465;asciilifeform;orig su version of zek fence was the simplistic 'may not go to foreign devil lands'; modern-day reich's is the moar 'advanced', 'looksy but no touchsy' variant.
1865998;1540485570;mircea_popescu;i suppose it's the intent. leaks like a sieve, not like i don't get done precisely what i want. it takes some screaming, which i got a large store of.
1865999;1540485590;asciilifeform;i'm sure mitsubishi also gets what it wants
1866000;1540485623;mircea_popescu;im sure it doesn't.
1866001;1540485659;asciilifeform;i don't pretend to specifically know. point is, it's an anti-personnel mine field, not anti-tank.
1866002;1540485732;asciilifeform;and evidently even mircea_popescu's supply of screaming + patience was finite, the argentines ended up curing him of further attempts, not he -- them
1866003;1540485747;mircea_popescu;in this sense "earth always wins -- eventually gold's out and then you leave".
1866004;1540485755;mircea_popescu;well what the fuck am i gonna do, marry a local and cultivate the pampas ?
1866005;1540485758;mircea_popescu;of course i leave.
1866006;1540485761;asciilifeform;lolyes
1866007;1540485777;asciilifeform;dun seem that there was so much gold in them hills.
1866008;1540485799;mircea_popescu;certainly nowhere near the advertised.
1866009;1540485825;asciilifeform;gotta luvv how even the very name is a lie -- silver ran out there, when , 19th c ?
1866010;1540485874;mircea_popescu;something like that. and peru always had more anyway.
1866011;1540486454;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit upstack, asciilifeform's interest in ic fab largely revolves around http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-30#1806521 .
1866012;1540486454;a111;Logged on 2018-04-30 16:16 asciilifeform: ( for the sake of thread-completeness, what would the ~alternative~ to this story look like? i suggest -- it'd be a process which does to ic fab what 'polaroid' process did to colour photography. find way of etching the circuit from prefab 'sandwich' without caustic baths, sputtering, etc... )
1866013;1540486539;asciilifeform;presently i have nfi whether this is physically possible, or how in particular -- could be fpga-like device where somehow the components actually ~move~ into position ; or sumthing where you can optically burn away the unused tracks through 'window' ; or some yet entirely unknown trick.
1866014;1540486568;asciilifeform;imho the classical fab is an overwhelmingly incatronic tech, it centralizes unhealthily.
1866015;1540486586;mircea_popescu;incidentally... there's all these LAYERS, because we're essentially making books, ie, 3d object out of 2d implementations
1866016;1540486604;asciilifeform;that's part of what makes the trad process cost what it does, yes
1866017;1540486615;mircea_popescu;maybe the trick is to make 6-connected cubic matrix and burn away connexions via ion pump or similar.
1866018;1540486617;asciilifeform;the etches, the masks, the elemental fluorine gas and other joys
1866019;1540486643;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd even settle for something entirely like ice40 but with fuse/antifuse bridges
1866020;1540486655;asciilifeform;in '80s folx briefly made , then somehow evaporated.
1866021;1540486726;mircea_popescu;incidentally -- there's a very strong link between http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865962 (ie, the naive expectation that money buys you good in reich) and the question of... why doesn't alf have elemental fluorine in his house ? "well, he doesn't want it" "suppose he did ?" "then he'd have to get authorization, like the plants do" "you mean... buy toyota ?" "eeexactly".
1866022;1540486726;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 16:07 asciilifeform: reminds me of process of buying autos in usa. picture, you walk in with chequebook. 'i want toyota' --- 3 hrs later, you MAYBE drive off in a toyota, or more likely yer still fighting over 'no, i do NOT want loan, not at 3%, not 2, not 0 , i want to pay with money'
1866023;1540486785;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: regularly there's word from some d00d who actually bought surplus gear ( see e.g. linked thread ) and 'omfg, i made a diode!' , typically as far as they get ( and it wasn't even because usg.dhs came for his flourine , afaik it did not )
1866024;1540486814;mircea_popescu;menalone and their problems, who cares.
1866025;1540486836;mircea_popescu;it's fine for i suppose a fifteen year old, though if it carries into the next year there's already mild retardation involved.
1866026;1540486837;asciilifeform;( generally if you do it in the part of town where the garages and meth labs are, you dun have usg.problems, at least not immediately )
1866027;1540486887;mircea_popescu;http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3/ << i quite enjoyed reading this btw.
1866028;1540486944;*;asciilifeform also quite liked. even learned of previously-unsuspected linuxlol
1866029;1540486958;asciilifeform;srsly, wtf, mips.
1866030;1540486979;mircea_popescu;prolly laying dormant to be used as example in who knows what future "discussion" etc.
1866031;1540486981;asciilifeform;i'd like to learn who it was, who mutilated.
1866032;1540486999;mircea_popescu;the medieval notion ("fleas spontaneously generate from filth") was not biologically correct, but mechanically quite adequate.
1866033;1540487022;asciilifeform;entirely. like the 19th c lumped approximation to maxwell's equations.
1866034;1540487038;mircea_popescu;aha
1866035;1540487039;asciilifeform;( still taught in kindergarten, errywhere )
1866036;1540487318;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re 'ion pump' upstack , in olden days when asciilifeform worked as academi-grunt in a bio lab, did many long hours of snore at electrophoretic 'blots', where chromatographic rubbish moves along a gel. and thought 'why not bake ic this day, what if you give it 2nd axis to steer the current' etc
1866037;1540487329;asciilifeform;*thisway
1866038;1540487346;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1866039;1540487467;asciilifeform;picture two planar gels (or whatever carrier medium) at orthogonal to one another, meeting in a thin line. the 'vertical' plane is yer 'print head', containing single steerable 'column' of $ion; the 'horizontal' is yer 'paper'.
1866040;1540487479;asciilifeform;each gets x and y steering current.
1866041;1540487502;mircea_popescu;1 at a time might be too slow
1866042;1540487506;mircea_popescu;but something like this.
1866043;1540487514;asciilifeform;nobody says you gotta only run 1 at a time, lol
1866044;1540487518;asciilifeform;can run warehouse full .
1866045;1540487525;mircea_popescu;then they interfere.
1866046;1540487532;asciilifeform;separate 'looms'
1866047;1540487550;asciilifeform;we're speaking of a pocket-sized apparatus .
1866048;1540487586;asciilifeform;nao missing ingredient, find a carrier medium that you can do this to, that can be doped to semiconduct...
1866049;1540487844;asciilifeform;the harder part might be ~conducting~ tracks -- would need sumthing that can be moved electrophoretically (i.e. ionic) but then somehow fuse into metallic conductor.
1866050;1540487851;asciilifeform;( perhaps when baked ? )
1866051;1540487861;mircea_popescu;maybe some metalloceramic thing.
1866052;1540487878;asciilifeform;massively green field
1866053;1540487885;mircea_popescu;yeah
1866054;1540487889;mircea_popescu;"industry" amirite.
1866055;1540487895;asciilifeform;well no, faberge.
1866056;1540487901;asciilifeform;specifically opposite of industry(tm)
1866057;1540487917;asciilifeform;hence 0 movement , afaik, on any such front.
1866058;1540487923;mircea_popescu;but in principle an... overconducting, let's call ti (not superconducting, simply higher conductance than metals) metalloceramic could be had.
1866059;1540487927;mircea_popescu;afaik not yet found tho
1866060;1540488056;asciilifeform;you want an end product that conducts thermally as well as electrically, or you get a lighter.
1866061;1540488188;asciilifeform;btw -- and iirc we had the thread -- there are even deeper crackpotteries potentially in the mix : it is possible to have strictly magnetic logic, without semiconductor. if can simply etch fine metal mask, interleaved with insulator, potentially can have a kind of slow 'z80' from miniature toroid logic (as seen in '60s su)
1866062;1540488188;mircea_popescu;maybe
1866063;1540488199;mircea_popescu;it's not clear to me the high power intelisms are ab solute necessity.
1866064;1540488209;mircea_popescu;"you want water for your engine" sorta thing
1866065;1540488241;asciilifeform;not even speaking of intelisms -- if you can't remove heat at the rate it is produced by resistance -- you get magic smoke, no matter how you cut it
1866066;1540488244;asciilifeform;water or no water
1866067;1540488391;asciilifeform;( for n00bz re earlier -- magnetic logic is based on the fact that a transformer core can 'saturate'. ergo you can bake a 'nand' simply from transformer with three windings.
1866068;1540488392;asciilifeform;)
1866069;1540488431;asciilifeform;and there isn't really a theoretically minimal size for it, afaik.
1866070;1540488478;asciilifeform;( and can have almost anyffing as the core, even vacuum, all transformers saturate )
1866071;1540488545;mircea_popescu;yes, but there's no rule saying "useful processor eats kW". for all you know it eats mW. there's a lot of eV in a mW.
1866072;1540488550;asciilifeform;!#s setun
1866073;1540488551;a111;6 results for "setun", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=setun
1866074;1540488562;asciilifeform;kW if you make it room-sized. potentially mW if microscopic.
1866075;1540488609;asciilifeform;all of this is in re 'you may be able to get away with only metals, no dopants' subthread.
1866076;1540488647;asciilifeform;'we dun need a 4 ring binder, we dun need a 3 ring binder, we dun need papers, we want information crunched'
1866077;1540488656;asciilifeform;nobody said it ~gotta~ semiconduct.
1866078;1540488694;mircea_popescu;to quote a lord, "green field all around"
1866079;1540488740;asciilifeform;for all i know, you could match 'z80' performance with simply modified cathode tube where the beam steers depending on what the state of the phosphor under it was, rather than moving in linear rasters.
1866080;1540488771;asciilifeform;( in '50s this was a best-selling 'ram' , but afaik nobody thought to de-rasterize it and make it the whole comp )
1866081;1540488809;asciilifeform;( think 'cellular automaton' )
1866082;1540488924;mircea_popescu;the code writing for tyhis will need some real men.
1866083;1540488946;mircea_popescu;"in an attempt to simplify computing, alf brings you, the computer that can only be programmed by a computer."
1866084;1540488954;asciilifeform;we kinda have these already
1866085;1540488987;asciilifeform;( i cant say i've ever programmed anyffing using http://www.loper-os.org/pub/podvig_radista.jpg method ... )
1866086;1540489029;asciilifeform;tho funnily enuff, in '80s su the standard method of burning ROMs was actually this box with keypad
1866087;1540489053;asciilifeform;you enter addr, then hit FF, or B0, or whatever, then '->' button...
1866088;1540489076;asciilifeform;i saw a surplus box of this type for sale, not so long ago
1866089;1540489092;mircea_popescu;bought some ?
1866090;1540489092;asciilifeform;rom hand-typewriter, if you will.
1866091;1540489105;asciilifeform;resisted to buy, it's ~typewriter size/mass'd
1866092;1540489115;mircea_popescu;seems a fine way to put in a privkey :D
1866093;1540489131;asciilifeform;typically they kept privkeys on hole-tape
1866094;1540489137;asciilifeform;( burns well, and costs < roms )
1866095;1540489139;mircea_popescu;ever had slavegirls type out rsa stuff btw ? it's like 1girlhour/kb sorta deal.
1866096;1540489179;asciilifeform;goes smoother if you giv'em an 'autovon'-style keypad thing, instead of pc kbd
1866097;1540489254;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/Pvt8J << photo, subj.
1866098;1540489280;asciilifeform;( put a/b/c/d/e/f stickers, and you got it )
1866099;1540489306;mircea_popescu;not that much faster ; the padding helps speed, and familioarity also.
1866100;1540489314;asciilifeform;possib
1866101;1540489341;mircea_popescu;not saying that whole new generation couldn't be baked for this purpose. but seems insanity.
1866102;1540489357;asciilifeform;there are not so many occasions when i hammer in key by hand.
1866103;1540489377;asciilifeform;i suppose if i had a stable of trained seals, might entertain'em/self in this way.
1866104;1540489451;mircea_popescu;i suppose.
1866105;1540489459;mircea_popescu;logsummarizing, more productive imo.
1866106;1540489468;*;asciilifeform agrees
1866107;1540489758;asciilifeform;btw, ftr, subj : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_2.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_3.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/romburn_4.jpg , in case anybody cares.
1866108;1540489806;asciilifeform;i would've naively imagined that massive 'contrabass' like this would may as well include the uv lamp. but apparently didn't.
1866109;1540490808;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1865825 << if you don't force the 'tempfiles ./tmp' scheme, i would much prefer to implement the 'temp. file in ./' variant. vpatch coming at latest tomorrow.
1866110;1540490808;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 14:52 mircea_popescu: up to you whether to make a dir or not ; eventually these will end up in that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865314 -- but the only way that happens is if you try things and then productively disagree with people. i've nfi at the moment whether we do or we don't want single temp files in a tmp dir nevertheless, or anything else ; and i absolutely do not wish to ever do (or will ever permit anyone to) sit around and "think
1866111;1540490812;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866027 << thanks!
1866112;1540490812;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 17:01 mircea_popescu: http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3/ << i quite enjoyed reading this btw.
1866113;1540490832;bvt;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866029 << asciilifeform, it seems that i accidentally made you believe that only mips is wrecked. Well, check this out http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sWrur/?raw=true
1866114;1540490832;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 17:02 asciilifeform: srsly, wtf, mips.
1866115;1540490837;mircea_popescu;bvt aite
1866116;1540490884;mircea_popescu;oy vey
1866117;1540490914;asciilifeform;bvt: i'm not surprised; but these dun affect anyffing i considered to be essential posix knob
1866118;1540490928;asciilifeform;( i.e. none of these flags appear in my proggies, aside from the open() one )
1866119;1540490954;asciilifeform;O_DIRECTORY might be a bitch in the fyootoor , i suppose
1866120;1540490979;mircea_popescu;changed ndelay etc
1866121;1540490986;asciilifeform;possibly sumthing like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865559 oughta be considered.
1866122;1540490986;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 15:25 asciilifeform: incidentally, https://www.adacore.com/gems/gem-59 apparently exists, tho i confess that i really dislike the idea of automatic converters for coad
1866123;1540491001;asciilifeform;cuz it's either that or 1 v-branch per os/iron .
1866124;1540491049;asciilifeform;( and from this we get to 'why didja not write the proggy in asm, if it only worx on linux 2.4 on mips ' etc )
1866125;1540491081;bvt;asciilifeform: re exotic flags -- sure. but i don't expect different results with syscall numbers as well. some subset will match, later in the table -- complete mess
1866126;1540491103;asciilifeform;bvt: syscalls were never guaranteed to be same errywhere tho
1866127;1540491111;asciilifeform;they aint a posixism
1866128;1540491111;mircea_popescu;i dunno, but this is brewing into a kettle of fish.
1866129;1540491166;asciilifeform;the correct end of the funnel to plug, imho , would be a sane flags lib built ~into gnat~, and correct ~per gnat port~
1866130;1540491186;asciilifeform;sorta what the orig authors lamely tried to do ( and mostly failed )
1866131;1540491224;asciilifeform;so any particular proggy can call e.g. open() with correct flaggisms, because it aint as if the gnat on the $box does not already know what os/iron it sits on.
1866132;1540491310;mircea_popescu;basically one step towards gnatos
1866133;1540491310;bvt;re syscalls -- fair enough. but imo this shows extreme brokeness of linux portability -- i can't think about a sane reason for syscall numbers to differ across arches.
1866134;1540491311;asciilifeform;the funny/sad bit is that this is ALREADY in gnat, for e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch8_randomism#L132 , but ~not exposed~ ! to user
1866135;1540491345;mircea_popescu;cuz it must be there, yes.
1866136;1540491360;asciilifeform;bvt: they differ for same reason as tit sizes -- nobody ever standardized, so naturally varies
1866137;1540491440;bvt;Ada.Sequential_IO is wired straight into fopen/fread/fwrite, by the way.
1866138;1540491547;bvt;everything system-dependent that i've seen in gnat runtime goes into C code.
1866139;1540491617;asciilifeform;how else ? it dun know about kernel abi, linux mutations, etc
1866140;1540491629;asciilifeform;of course it hooks into c/posix api.
1866141;1540491701;asciilifeform;sorta why i went ahead and stuck ALL of the os-dependent crud in udp lib into 1 .c
1866142;1540491723;asciilifeform;cuz may as well; if we ever tear off unix , will have to replace those mechanisms anyway
1866143;1540491812;bvt;the thing is, structure definitions and all sort of flag numbers appear in the libc via magic. having all this things in ada is possible, and would involve exactly same work that e.g. musl people are doing today
1866144;1540491830;bvt;*these
1866145;1540491841;asciilifeform;( on bare iron, with , say, iron-control variables where e.g.  Nic : Unsigned_32 ;  for Nic'Address use 16#FF00ABCD#;   etc )
1866146;1540491880;asciilifeform;bvt: imho it's wasted work; oughta have just enuff coad to interoperate with the pot of c liquishit while we still must
1866147;1540491889;asciilifeform;rather than baking it into 1000 manyears
1866148;1540491924;asciilifeform;my udp lib is ~600 line, and not 6000, because i went in this direction.
1866149;1540491959;bvt;but maybe, only the subset you need for mmaptron, for starters? full conversion is definitely not worth it
1866150;1540491961;asciilifeform;i do not see how it would be improved by being 6000, if i were to try to adaize erry possible idjit unix's  struct sockaddr_in .
1866151;1540491981;asciilifeform;bvt: maptron is actually done aside from the strings horror raised last night
1866152;1540491994;asciilifeform;i'ma genesisate it as soon as i figure out a workaround
1866153;1540492025;bvt;ok
1866154;1540492122;asciilifeform;imho in long term we really gotta move the compat layers liquishit out of individual projects and into tmsr-gnat
1866155;1540492131;asciilifeform;to keep 9000 mutant copies of these basic things is insanity
1866156;1540492154;asciilifeform;it's why it made sense to fork off gnat to begin with, so that these can be done.
1866157;1540492177;asciilifeform;( also to stop the gcc5ism gangrene, but this is a close second )
1866158;1540492192;mircea_popescu;just as soon as we figure ouyt wtf they even are.
1866159;1540492205;mircea_popescu;eg, to ~everyone the above open, and stack and etc were surprises.
1866160;1540492278;asciilifeform;the obvious alternative to cataloguing the liquishit, is to let it stay in gnat's c frontend where it belongs, a la the udp.c thing.
1866161;1540492353;asciilifeform;and when we get own os, can rip out the c immediately in favour of   for CuntLips'Address use 16#FF00ABCD#  device interface, etc.
1866162;1540492434;mircea_popescu;i suspect noboduy's getting out of cataloguing the shit that easily, but we see.
1866163;1540492803;asciilifeform;really the shit to catalog is the actual kernel abi -- what ave1 is doing .
1866164;1540492815;asciilifeform;there's very little point in memorializing the c api liquishit imho
1866165;1540492868;asciilifeform;i'd luvv to see a syscall-tronic version of the udp transceiver thing, for instance.
1866166;1540493088;bvt;syscalltronic = based on direct invocation of linux syscalls? how this would be possible without haveing sockaddr_in in ada?
1866167;1540493098;bvt;*having
1866168;1540493103;asciilifeform;( and yes it is catalogued, in various places, e.g. http://blog.rchapman.org/posts/Linux_System_Call_Table_for_x86_64/ , but to go to implementation takes moar sweat )
1866169;1540493160;asciilifeform;bvt: i do not know for a fact whether it eats same struct as the userland call, or different
1866170;1540493173;asciilifeform;that was my point, this remains to be excavated
1866171;1540493259;asciilifeform;as by asciilifeform -- the pill which weighs the least, is the Right Thing, per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866148 , an absolute minimum , line for line, of os-specific liquishit, is the ticket.
1866172;1540493259;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 18:25 asciilifeform: my udp lib is ~600 line, and not 6000, because i went in this direction.
1866173;1540493309;asciilifeform;and .c is not the only os liquishit, tables of platform constants that one ends up with from avoidance of .c, is also liquishit.
1866174;1540493437;bvt;well, http://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/network/connect.c -- the structure is the same; digging is rather easy, if you don't look into glibc
1866175;1540493472;asciilifeform;bvt: suspected as much
1866176;1540493482;asciilifeform;really, the os-platforming crapola belongs inside gnat.
1866177;1540493497;asciilifeform;port it once per iron/os and then fughet it.
1866178;1540493556;asciilifeform;whole point of using a compiled lang is that this garbage dun have to live in yer proggy !
1866179;1540493576;asciilifeform;otherwise why not just write 0xfbadf00d.... etc
1866180;1540493949;bvt;well, i did not suggest learning/utilizing C api, on the contrary, a subset of kernel stuff in ada is the interesting thing. it just happens to be currently defined/documented as C code.
1866181;1540494020;asciilifeform;bvt: linux kernel is fundamentally retarded, it expects null-termed rubbish, at times, at other times, char * and length, not to mention a pile of untyped ptrs inside structs, really oughta eat ada structs , ada fixed strings, properly typed arrays, etc instead
1866182;1540494048;asciilifeform;any spackle over the orig unix liquishit, is doomed to be ugly. so imho the smallest possible spackle that does the job, is Right Thing
1866183;1540494069;asciilifeform;right up until we finally ditch unix c kernels.
1866184;1540494153;asciilifeform;for so long as we're stuck on a linux box, i'd rather spackle over the c-ism with 600 ln, than with 6000 .
1866185;1540494175;asciilifeform;it is ~much~ easier to demonstrate the correctness of 600, no matter what else.
1866186;1540494319;asciilifeform;( and btw the actual amt of c spackle in udp lib , http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_fix_ip_nullchars/tree/udp/libudp/unix_udp.c , is 146 ln. )
1866187;1540494342;asciilifeform;if somebody can show how to do same in 100, or 10, i'ma read and sign the patch and take off my hat.
1866188;1540494356;asciilifeform;but i aint particularly interested in 'improvement' that turns the 146 into 1460.
1866189;1540494394;asciilifeform;( if you have a 1460 , it had better include whole ip stack and driver for iron nic, lol )
1866190;1540494454;asciilifeform;let's reformulate this way : we want the ~net~ complexity of the orchestra to decrease. if we cannot yet decrease ~net~, the Right Thing is to at least refrain from adding, when possible.
1866191;1540494638;asciilifeform;when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs.
1866192;1540494934;asciilifeform;at the risk of repeating ancient thread -- 'the best machine is no machine', it weighs nuffin, needs no maintenance. and the best proggy, is no proggy at all, if a problem can be solved without writing proggy, it ought to be. erry line of coad can be rightfully pictured as an act of intellectual littering. y'know, like throwing cig butt or bottle on the ground in the park.
1866193;1540494983;asciilifeform;it is not possible to live life wholly without exhaust product, errybody exhales, shits, occasionally drops a crumb. but imho good form is to at least recognize that litter is unwanted.
1866194;1540495007;asciilifeform;one thing to shit on an enemy's door step, deliberately, entirely other thing to shit errywhere because not realizing that shit -- stinks
1866195;1540495029;asciilifeform;anyway i'ma leave it at this, will bbl:meat.
1866196;1540495162;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866178 << or so you'd fucking think!
1866197;1540495162;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 18:52 asciilifeform: whole point of using a compiled lang is that this garbage dun have to live in yer proggy !
1866198;1540495255;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866180 << this is approximately the work of re-writing eulora too.
1866199;1540495255;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 18:59 bvt: well, i did not suggest learning/utilizing C api, on the contrary, a subset of kernel stuff in ada is the interesting thing. it just happens to be currently defined/documented as C code.
1866200;1540495513;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191 << this is very much so ; restatement of ye [very recent] olde http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-08#1859478
1866201;1540495513;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 19:10 asciilifeform: when you add compatibility spackle, serious reader is not saved from reading the thing you spackled over -- on the contrary nao he has to read the ~original~ rubbish ~plus~ your spackle, however much it weighs.
1866202;1540495513;a111;Logged on 2018-10-08 16:20 mircea_popescu: because no, the "i know ~exactly~ what the computer is doing" declaration is not optional. exactly like socrates' observation, "the man claiming no political system has political system", exactly so, whatever the claim, to run code on machine equals the declaration of having fully read and thoroughly understood. there's no wiggle room.
1866203;1540495641;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866195 << to make more shit ? :D
1866204;1540495641;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 19:17 asciilifeform: anyway i'ma leave it at this, will bbl:meat.
1866205;1540495698;deedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/25/smg-comms-chapter-4-c-wrappers-for-rsa-and-mpi/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 4: C Wrappers for RSA and MPI
1866206;1540500011;BingoBoingo;Welcome back Mocky
1866207;1540500027;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/notbombs-culprit-still-at-large-fbi-still-prime-suspect/ << Qntra - #NotBombs Culprit Still At Large, FBI Still Prime Suspect
1866208;1540500035;Mocky;oh my god BingoBoingo I'm so fucking tired
1866209;1540500049;BingoBoingo;What happened now?
1866210;1540500082;BingoBoingo;Did you forget to hydrate enough?
1866211;1540500082;Mocky;socializing at fancy bar / restaurant for 5 hours. just got back home, about to pass out
1866212;1540500088;*;BingoBoingo does that occasionally
1866213;1540500097;BingoBoingo;Ah, pass out and have fun
1866214;1540500169;Mocky;got 3 good leads for qatari introductions. and a kuwait lead thrust upon me
1866215;1540500180;BingoBoingo;Very cool
1866216;1540500310;Mocky;apparently kuwait computers are shit and one chick knows another chick who runs "cyber security" for a kuwaiti / iraqi company, has been in there for 30 years, knows everyone in the biz. promised me a kuwaiti business sponsor if I actually know anything about computer security, put her number in my phone for me, and texted her to expect contact from me
1866217;1540500341;mircea_popescu;o hey.
1866218;1540500347;mircea_popescu;nice.
1866219;1540500371;Mocky;told me how to get liquor there, that it's not 'dry' like it's claimed, lol
1866220;1540500390;mircea_popescu;mocky you magnificent bastard.
1866221;1540500393;mircea_popescu;bring her in here.
1866222;1540500454;Mocky;she works for army inteligence on the us base here. had to listen to 30 minutes of snoweden hatred
1866223;1540500506;Mocky;they eyes are closing, passing out in 3... 2..
1866224;1540500563;mircea_popescu;laters.
1866225;1540504522;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866203 << on a good day, i pump away moar than produce...
1866226;1540504522;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 19:27 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866195 << to make more shit ? :D
1866227;1540504621;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866216 << kuwait, like zimbabwe, or whoever else, can quit running winblowz whenever it pulls its head out of arse
1866228;1540504621;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 20:45 Mocky: apparently kuwait computers are shit and one chick knows another chick who runs "cyber security" for a kuwaiti / iraqi company, has been in there for 30 years, knows everyone in the biz. promised me a kuwaiti business sponsor if I actually know anything about computer security, put her number in my phone for me, and texted her to expect contact from me
1866229;1540504658;asciilifeform;( not much , i suspect, chance of this sort of pull-out, while it remains usg colony )
1866230;1540504733;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866222 << didja ask chix why , if snowden is a zero , e.g. colonel vetrov is 'hero' ?
1866231;1540504733;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 20:47 Mocky: she works for army inteligence on the us base here. had to listen to 30 minutes of snoweden hatred
1866232;1540505068;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866205 << goes great with the 'c glue' thread from earlier
1866233;1540505068;a111;Logged on 2018-10-25 19:28 deedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/25/smg-comms-chapter-4-c-wrappers-for-rsa-and-mpi/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 4: C Wrappers for RSA and MPI
1866234;1540506161;bvt;http://bvt-trace.net/2018/10/vpatch-replacing-mktemp3-take-two/ - please have a look
1866235;1540506180;bvt;at this point -- bis morgen!
1866236;1540506189;asciilifeform;oh hey
1866237;1540506191;*;asciilifeform will read
1866238;1540510408;trinque;!!v 99B5D9287A323E6C7D3C9FC803B8499CD847FBADDF0BDC36CED2C41E480DCDCF
1866239;1540510409;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 3 days, 9 hours, and 25 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> is http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/ still most recent cuntoo ? i got errything ready to bake cuntoo lappy ( the oddball lcd box; old ssd from zoolag ) ; should proceed or wait for update ? ty
1866240;1540510410;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 3 days, 5 hours, and 19 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://trinque.org/cuntoo.tar.gz 404's
1866241;1540510411;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 3 days, 0 hours, and 36 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dI29G/?raw=true << very peculiar barfology from existing ( same tarball i successfully used for s.mg box ) cuntoo. sat for 4 hrs, built both gcc's, etc., then ended with this.
1866242;1540510412;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 1 day, 5 hours, and 58 minutes ago: <BingoBoingo> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VsgXk/?raw=true
1866243;1540510412;deedbot;Invoiced BingoBoingo 0.31008 << http://logs.bvulpes.com/eulora?d=2018-10-25#443909
1866244;1540510425;trinque;lol, good evening lobbesbot
1866245;1540510451;asciilifeform;ohai trinque
1866246;1540510622;trinque;I'm going to need to get my teeth into cuntoo this weekend before I can help you with lappy. what was in that tarball is very out of date.
1866247;1540510646;asciilifeform;trinque: the odd thing is that it's what i used to bake the s.mg cuntoo; worked, then
1866248;1540510669;asciilifeform;and there's afaik nothing substantially different in the current shot
1866249;1540510687;asciilifeform;gotta be sumthing on the remote (fetched from heathens?) end, iirc the old shot still had these
1866250;1540510734;trinque;first barf is that openssl was updated and something was linked to previous; @preserved-rebuild oughta fix that
1866251;1540510752;trinque;second almost looks like bad disk
1866252;1540510759;trinque;note ya got remounted to readonly
1866253;1540510786;asciilifeform;disk, in so far as i can tell, is alive ( no eggogs in dmesg )
1866254;1540510818;asciilifeform;it was pulled from zoolag the day before ( and not because sad, but to expand the latter to 1tb )
1866255;1540510854;trinque;mount reports mounted r/w or r/o ?
1866256;1540510867;trinque;that io error is the thing jumping out at me, of course
1866257;1540510901;asciilifeform;nao this, i do not know, i have since taken the thing apart again ( was plugged into lappy )
1866258;1540510921;asciilifeform;could rerun later this wk if this point is of interest to trinque
1866259;1540510933;asciilifeform;( it takes most of a day to get to the barfpoint )
1866260;1540510949;trinque;I could possibly have you a newer thing to try this weekend; that's the goal
1866261;1540510956;asciilifeform;worx
1866262;1540510978;asciilifeform;i'd much prefer, yes, to have the proper cuntoo, with 0 heathen pulls
1866263;1540511005;asciilifeform;( and at some point i'd like to set up a tarball mirror myself )
1866264;1540511026;trinque;indeed, I have all the tars necessary to build, will provide 'em
1866265;1540511043;asciilifeform;neat.
1866266;1540520063;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )
1866267;1540520133;asciilifeform;what you end up with if you break this, is a linker eggog; inside instantiated main adb, loox like http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tbJta/?raw=true
1866268;1540520204;asciilifeform;observe that E107 is undefined cuz it doesn't shit out a E107 : Short_Integer; pragma Import (Ada, E107, wherever); .
1866269;1540520241;asciilifeform;so you get one of these, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/N82By/?raw=true .
1866270;1540520302;asciilifeform;my current hypothesis is that we're literally the only folx ever to bake static libs (i.e. in .gpr,   for Library_Kind use "static";  ) .
1866271;1540520509;asciilifeform;currently i'm in a zugzwang in re the mmap lib : the http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/extOl/?raw=true invocation form is The Right Thing, but it requires passing in a String for Path, which dun work without secondarystackism;
1866272;1540520606;asciilifeform;so then sat down and implemented it in http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RJjFb/?raw=true form. however this cannot be made to go , because if MemMap package does not know the path at instantiation time, it cannot run,
1866273;1540520645;asciilifeform;in the old form, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZkkVC/?raw=true , observe that for Obj'Address use Maps.Open(.... gotta be a static value, per https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gnat_rm/Address-Clauses.html ( logical )
1866274;1540520656;asciilifeform;and if it ain't available at birth, then it never gets set.
1866275;1540520688;asciilifeform;diana_coman, phf , et al ^ invited to think/comment...
1866276;1540520766;asciilifeform;my only remaining notion here is that possibly gotta implement a 'paths' lib ! i.e. would represent paths as arrays of permanently fixed length , 255 octets, iirc this is the max permitted on unixlikes.
1866277;1540520778;asciilifeform;so then could avoid String entirely.
1866278;1540520810;asciilifeform;i suspect that String Must-Die(tm)
1866279;1540520887;asciilifeform;problem is that CPath  : aliased C.Char_Array := C.To_C(Path);  , in the glue, demands a String .
1866280;1540520924;asciilifeform;liquishit all the day down...
1866281;1540521069;asciilifeform;the braindamage of unix open()'s demand for a null-termed string, percolates all the way up.
1866282;1540521248;asciilifeform;the real enigma is, why the fuck gnat does not include an interface to ordinary unix open(), why is it that i gotta write it.
1866283;1540521320;asciilifeform;tho even if it existed, and i had memmap package eat a FD that it shat out on instantiation, this would be stupefyingly ugly still, because then memmap cannot be a troo finalized type (i.e. one that cleans up entirely after itself on death, incl. closing its fd)
1866284;1540521372;asciilifeform;the external knobs ~must~ be made to work in http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/extOl/?raw=true style, somehow or other, or the thing opens gates of hell...
1866285;1540521405;asciilifeform;(i.e. does not properly plug the abstraction leak of unix idjicy, which is the whole point of the proggy)
1866286;1540521587;asciilifeform;1 obvious solution, that iirc diana_coman at one point resorted to somewhere, is to discard the 'librariness' and make the thing a 'put this in your src' type of lib, rather than linkable one. but i ~like~ linkable/separately-compilable static libs.
1866287;1540521600;asciilifeform;and errything else i've written worked a++ as them.
1866288;1540521633;asciilifeform;aanyway i'ma stop here for nao, lest head expload.
1866289;1540521637;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1866290;1540522828;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866270 << pretty weird altogether.
1866291;1540522828;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 02:18 asciilifeform: my current hypothesis is that we're literally the only folx ever to bake static libs (i.e. in .gpr,   for Library_Kind use "static";  ) .
1866292;1540522897;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866276 << more like a wrapper on paths, i guess. though pretty sure you can have longer than 255 chars.
1866293;1540522897;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 02:26 asciilifeform: my only remaining notion here is that possibly gotta implement a 'paths' lib ! i.e. would represent paths as arrays of permanently fixed length , 255 octets, iirc this is the max permitted on unixlikes.
1866294;1540523016;asciilifeform;oh hah, rtfm'd, and yes, 4096 byte paths, 255 ~filename~ max.
1866295;1540523039;mircea_popescu;right.
1866296;1540523101;asciilifeform;on top of this, i'm thinking all of this spackle, oughta be unified, the paths, open(), udpism, tempism, etc. and eventually rolled into tmsr.gnat .
1866297;1540523117;asciilifeform;is imho where it belongs.
1866298;1540523131;asciilifeform;and then the pieces can interop properly.
1866299;1540523201;mircea_popescu;really, open() should be rewritten.
1866300;1540523202;asciilifeform;current gnat standard lib is a jawdropping zoo of broken shit. e.g didjaknow there is a sad bignum lib in there ?
1866301;1540523213;mircea_popescu;yes, actually.
1866302;1540523216;asciilifeform;and a full snobol interpreter.
1866303;1540523229;asciilifeform;and fuck knows what else.
1866304;1540523234;mircea_popescu;went "let's then compare alf's thing to this" ran away
1866305;1540523249;asciilifeform;ha
1866306;1540523281;asciilifeform;i actually started in '16 with attempt to terraform it; promptly barfed
1866307;1540523323;asciilifeform;just as started udp thing by going 'hm wai not fix gnatsockets' and... ~lost~ month
1866308;1540523367;asciilifeform;i'd almost go so far as to specifically disrecommend study of the stock standardlib, it is actively bad for health
1866309;1540523375;asciilifeform;just pour petrol, flick bic.
1866310;1540523575;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866299 << whole point of spackling, 'rewrite' open(), mmap(), etc, to somehow satisfy the idjit kernel without permitting the retardation to leak upstream to own proggy
1866311;1540523575;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 03:06 mircea_popescu: really, open() should be rewritten.
1866312;1540523630;asciilifeform;( bvt's point re inet_addr applies here -- the actual syscall in fact demands a tardstring, i.e. nulltermed )
1866313;1540526467;asciilifeform;to continue in these lulz : ada std has a 'bounded string' type, that superficially is defined as exactly how i wanted to do 'path' type earlier. but! but! if actually invoked, it -- for no logical reason afaik -- prevents the invoking package from being declared stateless ( i.e. pragma Pure ), and this propagates ad infinitum , to caller.
1866314;1540526485;asciilifeform;so apparently i gotta reimplement bounded strings nao..
1866315;1540531698;mircea_popescu;just fucking patch the kernel.
1866316;1540531771;mircea_popescu;there's no need to even HAVE this bullshit open() style. fixwidth path and that's it.
1866317;1540532992;mats;https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1333889
1866318;1540533078;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'patch' is not the applicable name for the required ragnarok. whole kernel is like this, 9000 layers deep.
1866319;1540533100;asciilifeform;it's what c-tardation is all about.
1866320;1540536579;mircea_popescu;sadly.
1866321;1540543197;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866278 -> ~every time I used String for anything more than constant value I regretted it somewhere down the line so I tend to converge on the same idea - it's just broken
1866322;1540543197;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 02:26 asciilifeform: i suspect that String Must-Die(tm)
1866323;1540562970;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i happen to know that i'm not the only one who swore off secondarystack -- the 1990s space probes folx did also. but unsurprisingly they never published anyffing re how they filled the resulting cavity in functionality. ( at least they did not have to deal with linux kernel, afaik, ran on bare iron , so no To_C etc horrors )
1866324;1540563036;asciilifeform;it is even possible that they 'cheated' and passes System.Address's around, reverting to c monkeyism.
1866325;1540563123;asciilifeform;( for the n00bz/l0g-summarizers, likbez : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835937 )
1866326;1540563123;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 14:13 asciilifeform: btw did i ever discuss why i forbid the secondary stack ?
1866327;1540563376;asciilifeform;( and elsewhere, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764451 )
1866328;1540563376;a111;Logged on 2018-01-05 01:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the secondary stack thing worx correctly in modern-day gnat. but i banned it. ( because it makes reading disasmed binariolade harder; reasoning about the semantics of the latter -- also harder; and consumes very scarce, on small embedded chips, memory , imho needlessly )
1866329;1540565850;asciilifeform;relatedly, i've written a working replacement for Bounded_String .
1866330;1540565900;asciilifeform;( trivial, but sadly needed. i have nfi why the standard one has the retarded block against pragma Pure )
1866331;1540568136;BingoBoingo;Breaking: FBI has arrested their Patsy!
1866332;1540569409;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-brings-in-their-bomb-hoax-patsy-florida-man/ << Qntra - FBI Brings In Their Bomb Hoax Patsy: Florida Man
1866333;1540569573;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cuz why publish anything, right.
1866334;1540569603;*;mircea_popescu has a good mind to edit all these people's graves, "here lies a schmuck, who published rien."
1866335;1540569653;mod6;*#dFnwQ831i&
1866336;1540569657;mod6;lol
1866337;1540569667;mod6;smh
1866338;1540569678;BingoBoingo;And looks like its time for mod6 to change another password
1866339;1540569700;mod6;aha
1866340;1540569895;asciilifeform;lol
1866341;1540570027;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: modern academitard 'publishing' is usually of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1857920 sort
1866342;1540570027;a111;Logged on 2018-10-04 00:14 asciilifeform: i.e. unreplicable crapola where one'd have to catch the authors and connect'em to 220v to get the orig data, supposing it existed
1866343;1540570139;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
1866344;1540570140;mircea_popescu;mod6 omfg! you need sleep, you!
1866345;1540570180;asciilifeform;( 'electric' serpent is actually somewhat nontrivial, on acct of the gnarly 'key schedule' algo and the arrayed sboxes )
1866346;1540570181;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform fucking morons.
1866347;1540570186;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1866348;1540570189;asciilifeform;not simply morons, mendacious morons
1866349;1540570193;BingoBoingo;Irony: Woman who would clearly recognize as laughable a man's attempts to boast about fapping boast about her own self pleasuring activities https://archive.is/xlEDb
1866350;1540570196;asciilifeform;simple morons would be an improvement.
1866351;1540570371;asciilifeform;i expect academitards-with-seekric-sauce are 98% 'if i published, errybody will know that it never worked', 1% 'if i published, errybody will know that it consists of ripped off old open sores' ( personally met one of these ! ) , and 1% 'it worx and we're gonna patent!111 and getrichquick' , bolix-whisperer style ( i have no direct evidence that these exist, but some indirect clues )
1866352;1540570439;mircea_popescu;obviously dood, the mainstay of adolescentine wank fiction is the shame, the burning, unyielding SHAME of "if dad knew would prolly a) laugh ass off and b) cut pecker off, "useless anyway".
1866353;1540570480;asciilifeform;in this case it's simple madoff fraud, imho, rather than any sort of peculiar freudism. i.e. simple 'we lied for moneys and dun wanna to jail'
1866354;1540570498;mircea_popescu;nah, it's freudism. things as advanced as fraud don't get as fashionable.
1866355;1540570546;asciilifeform;faux-fpga-worx aint exactly the most fashionable scamolas, we're looking at obscure, vs 'sexy', frauds.
1866356;1540570574;asciilifeform;mostly indian/chinese d00dz embedded in usg.academitardia, doin' their india thing.
1866357;1540570580;mircea_popescu;the behaviour is painting-indistinct. "yellow houses aren't the most fashionable". the discussion is house-building, not "yellow house making"
1866358;1540570588;asciilifeform;possibly
1866359;1540570818;asciilifeform;upstack -- ran into stack of these 'papers' when cleaning out crud, from 2yr ago when asciilifeform thought 'could make simple ciphered disk from usb2sd chip <-> ice40 <-> sdcard ' )
1866360;1540570909;asciilifeform;serpent was bottleneck, in that gedankenbox.
1866361;1540571370;asciilifeform;( why usb2sd chinesium, and not the usual 'usb microcontroller' ? cuz it has the 'mass storage' stack hairball in mask rom, and not reprogrammable... )
1866362;1540571575;mircea_popescu;need tmsros/tmsrfs first, it's evbident by now
1866363;1540571594;asciilifeform;for self-ciphering block disk ? why ?
1866364;1540571606;asciilifeform;it'd do its thing without involving os/fs
1866365;1540571635;asciilifeform;( per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-24#1865718 summary )
1866366;1540571635;a111;Logged on 2018-10-24 22:14 asciilifeform: ( for the l0gz : from asciilifeform's pov, 'sane disk crypter' is an item that gets keyed via onboard keyboard jack, e.g. serpents, the attached disk, and unkeyed when powered off or at the closing of a contact attached to $whatever )
1866367;1540571663;asciilifeform;in fact you would specifically not want any aspect of it visible to the pc.
1866368;1540571674;asciilifeform;presents as ordinary disk when connected/keyed.
1866369;1540571756;asciilifeform;( existing schemes resembling this are retarded primarily because they have luser enter key via pc kbd , and secondarily because they all married to aes )
1866370;1540571907;mircea_popescu;because then we'd have baked sane hardware for it.
1866371;1540571917;mircea_popescu;how to get fg ? get tmsr-rsa
1866372;1540571991;asciilifeform;lol from that pov no point in doing anyffing at all until we bake own ic at will , on atomic battleship..
1866373;1540572024;asciilifeform;imho disk cipherer is an item that could be made, a la FG, without rebuilding all of civilization, and not have to be rebaked later. supposing folx wanted it.
1866374;1540572049;mircea_popescu;hm
1866375;1540572056;mircea_popescu;tell this to me again ?
1866376;1540572143;asciilifeform;you have a box, that presents as e.g. usb drive on 'red' end, and eats a e.g. sd card on 'black' end, with a thing between the two that serpents and unserpents (how to key it, is a separate conversation, but it can be keyed sanely so long as it is done not from pc end )
1866377;1540572162;asciilifeform;this was actually mircea_popescu's idea, originally, it was orig part of the cardano cocktail.
1866378;1540572186;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1866379;1540572206;asciilifeform;there are heathen incarnations but they all suffer from the obvious idjicies afaik.
1866380;1540572212;mircea_popescu;so listen, you actually see no merit in the "4096 byte crypto fpgas" ?
1866381;1540572230;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i see plenty of merit in iron bignumtron, sure
1866382;1540572247;asciilifeform;funnily enuff i dun know of a single commercial/heathendom fpga that could house something of this size.
1866383;1540572254;asciilifeform;not even the $1k xilinx'en.
1866384;1540572259;mircea_popescu;no no, not house it in fpga
1866385;1540572266;mircea_popescu;bake our own fpga, with 4096 bit byte sizes
1866386;1540572290;asciilifeform;as in, with 4096b ( really you want double of this, given how modexp works ) arithmetizer block in the fabric ?
1866387;1540572303;asciilifeform;it'd rock
1866388;1540572325;mircea_popescu;so you don't see my point when i say "well... disk and everytihng else line-crypto really needs tmsr-cryptochip first" ?
1866389;1540572329;asciilifeform;( it is not meaningful to speak of 'bitness' of fpga per se, it's just a bag of blocks, typically 4-6bit LUTs plus some arithmetizers )
1866390;1540572352;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: symmetric crypter doesn't win from massive arithmetron tho
1866391;1540572367;mircea_popescu;but then could rsa!
1866392;1540572369;asciilifeform;it wants simply large # of pedestrian nands/switches.
1866393;1540572374;mircea_popescu;whole problem of "nobody serpent" etc goes away
1866394;1540572390;asciilifeform;yer gonna hammer in a 4096 bit key erry time you uncork the thing ?
1866395;1540572392;asciilifeform;by hand ?
1866396;1540572405;mircea_popescu;if you don't like that, get an antifuse rom chip for it.
1866397;1540572420;asciilifeform;you want the key to vanish in <1ms when you hit the red button tho
1866398;1540572435;mircea_popescu;so keep it on a flash card etc.
1866399;1540572444;mircea_popescu;these are not by any means same calibre problems
1866400;1540572484;mircea_popescu;i am experimenting with serpent, and yes it's borne of that ancient discussion of ours, but i'm nowhere near-ready to bake it into "this is tmsr secure disk"
1866401;1540572492;asciilifeform;then it aint a fully volatile ciphertron tho. good % of the appeal, from my pov, was that it loses key if unplugged, and has no squirrelholes to somehow inadvertently retain key bits when off.
1866402;1540572522;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect that there will not be a 'civilized' symmetric cipher, i.e. item with less voodoo flavour to it than 'serpent'
1866403;1540572537;asciilifeform;it is a kind of 'escherian', as mircea_popescu likes to describe, object.
1866404;1540572553;mircea_popescu;i agree with that, but im not sure symmetric cipher hdd wins that much.
1866405;1540572558;mircea_popescu;i mean, sure, it's something.
1866406;1540572591;mircea_popescu;now, maybe after eulora's run for a half decade, and there's ACTUAL ~publshed~ research by ACTUAL humans re its strength, THEN i can revisit this discussion from a different hand
1866407;1540572605;asciilifeform;it wins, theoretically, machine that can be locked/transported .
1866408;1540572611;mircea_popescu;but as it stands, seems sending people to bring me a serpent hdd is not unlike sending people to bring be titted boars. why, can't use women ?
1866409;1540572631;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nobody's even yet invented an approach to investigating strength of symmetrics. (only weakness)
1866410;1540572644;asciilifeform;(and i strongly suspect that nobody will)
1866411;1540572652;mircea_popescu;that's what i mean, "a picture of its possible strength emerges from ample discussion of its possible weaknesses"
1866412;1540572676;asciilifeform;but it doesn't. recall the orig symmetric thread.
1866413;1540572685;asciilifeform;we have no concept of 'strength' that shannon didn't have in '47.
1866414;1540572713;asciilifeform;( and his verdict was 'only about otp can talk about strength, errything else provably contains bits of key in ciphertext' )
1866415;1540572749;mircea_popescu;i want serpent to take me out to dinner first! what!
1866416;1540572755;asciilifeform;lol
1866417;1540572773;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu's pov was 'symmetric iron disk is worse than nuffin cuz symmetric ciphers are hokum' -- i'll buy
1866418;1540572783;asciilifeform;problem is that we're already using'em
1866419;1540572787;mircea_popescu;not worse than nothing, no.
1866420;1540572803;asciilifeform;( an iron rsatron would remove some of the need for fast / low-mem ciphration, but imho not all )
1866421;1540572813;mircea_popescu;if you're hungry, happy meal not worse than nothing (marginally), but you stiull won't get it.
1866422;1540572852;asciilifeform;i was thinking moar along the lines of 'pistol that fires erry other round backwards is worse than a good knife'
1866423;1540572958;mircea_popescu;i don't expect it'd be a bad thing to have. it's certainly way the fuck more than the whole "market" of the whole "security industry" slash barn.
1866424;1540572974;mircea_popescu;but it seems, at least to my dumb eye of today, kinda going the wrong way.
1866425;1540572977;asciilifeform;also worth noting that it's an item heathens might actually buy.
1866426;1540572992;mircea_popescu;if experience is any guide, heathens do not buy by rational criteria.
1866427;1540572993;asciilifeform;so from propaganda/empire-building pov, could be +ev
1866428;1540573000;mircea_popescu;ie, they'll buy your used underwear to wear on head just as well.
1866429;1540573057;asciilifeform;they didn't line up to buy FG.. ( it dun scratch any heathen itches ) whereas this item potentially does scratch, as i understand
1866430;1540573081;asciilifeform;( dun mean they'll buy, could easily be engulfed by pantsuit lymphocytes and remain 'unhappened' , sure )
1866431;1540573116;mircea_popescu;so yes, i fully expect they'll buy, and then admire the hole we've dug ourselves in : five years down the road, say, as a mental experiment, we've sold 100k of these units, they're 90% of all we've sold, and well... they're still blockshiters. and what's next ? say i utter a fatah against block "ciphering", for good technical reasons or just because i'm insane -- IT DOESNT MATTER, and lo there'll be a lordship schism because
1866432;1540573116;mircea_popescu;the poor people touching that shit (ie, that make it, or sell it, or w/e) are suddenly stuck bearing more weight than their rated limits.
1866433;1540573172;mircea_popescu;say inca utters fatwah against block chiphers (ALSO DOESNT MATTER), now we'll go to war for the holy cause of niggers^H^Hblockchiphers ?
1866434;1540573176;asciilifeform;it aint end of the world if we bake sumthing and then retire it in favour of moar-correct replacement ( a la orig v )
1866435;1540573195;mircea_popescu;except, of course, if the underwear-on-head&over-pants crowd buys it.
1866436;1540573211;mircea_popescu;recall how satoshi's prototype ended up shitbitcoin ?
1866437;1540573227;mircea_popescu;IT WAS A PROTOTYPE
1866438;1540573241;asciilifeform;bitcoin p2p net is moar of a living organism , it is not really upgradeable
1866439;1540573252;asciilifeform;whereas it is not difficult to copy a block disk to a new one and burn the old
1866440;1540573262;mircea_popescu;it seriously never fucking was meant to be gone over with a microscope, "oh satoshi how could you". fuck you i should wear a caliper attached to my pants in case i doodle in the restaurant also ?
1866441;1540573277;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the problem with computers is that they all tend to be living organisms.
1866442;1540573284;mircea_popescu;if they ever live, they live.
1866443;1540573308;asciilifeform;dunno, i threw out my serial mouse, and didn't have to rewire entire house on acct of having discarded it
1866444;1540573321;asciilifeform;simple peripherals are a thing
1866445;1540573328;mircea_popescu;this is also true.
1866446;1540573344;asciilifeform;$gedankenitem is just that, a 'dumb' peripheral
1866447;1540573350;mircea_popescu;(you did end up with a rewired computer on acct of throwing out that mouse, and you bemoan it daily, but soit.)
1866448;1540573397;*;asciilifeform as errybody knows, never actually throws out iron!111 so haha!, still has mouse! was rhetorical device
1866449;1540573459;mircea_popescu;in short, because this winding discussion risks overwhelming buffers, the salient points are a) that i'm not ready to go to war over serpent, it's a meh-maybe item ; b) that building our spearheads around items we're not willing to die for may be how the converse of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoin+corrupts altogether.
1866450;1540573484;mircea_popescu;works altogether*
1866451;1540573499;asciilifeform;incidentally , baking such box doesn't marry to serpent, can replace the ice40's feed rom whenever, with whatever one likes
1866452;1540573505;asciilifeform;so long as it sits down in 8k gates
1866453;1540573526;asciilifeform;ice40 eats config from a 8-legged spi rom thing, can socket it.
1866454;1540573540;mircea_popescu;yeah but suppose some bright kid walks into here one day with that item we all suspect is under a rock somewhere
1866455;1540573553;mircea_popescu;"hey guise ? i have a mathematical definition of blockchipher, and guess what comes for free with it."
1866456;1540573554;asciilifeform;(unlike the xl9572 , incidentally, which has baked-in eeprom )
1866457;1540573575;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: then errybody who likes it, pulls their roms and writes in ~that~ , neh.
1866458;1540573582;mircea_popescu;nono.
1866459;1540573588;asciilifeform;and nao you have bright-kid-cipher instead of serpent, same iron
1866460;1540573590;mircea_popescu;it comes for free with "here's generic method to attack all of them"
1866461;1540573611;asciilifeform;by same lights bright-kid can walk in with pill for rsa. then wat.
1866462;1540573615;mircea_popescu;absolutely not.
1866463;1540573634;asciilifeform;by what oracle not ?
1866464;1540573641;mircea_popescu;nobody's walking anywhere with any rsa pills. now that i'm willing to die with.
1866465;1540573673;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i looked at the both of them things, what can i tell you.
1866466;1540573674;asciilifeform;errybody gotta take bets, sure. but must point out that there is no stiffness proof for rsa any moar than for voodoo-symmetrics.
1866467;1540573683;asciilifeform;and yes i am moar willing to bet on rsa.
1866468;1540573683;mircea_popescu;this is true.
1866469;1540573708;mircea_popescu;but the other point is, yes, "erryone gotta bet". but also, "erryone has finite chips to bet with".
1866470;1540573736;asciilifeform;and will point out, errybody who transmitted rsa-over-serpent in the 20yrs prior to $breakthrough is just as hosed as the folx who were using pocket iron serpentrons
1866471;1540573764;mircea_popescu;there is that.
1866472;1540573773;asciilifeform;( if anyffing, moar -- iron sepentron is only 'broken' if it actually is captured by enemy prior to serpent-pops )
1866473;1540573800;mircea_popescu;aaaanyways, this out of the way : do you actually have all the parts for this serpentdisk ?
1866474;1540573821;asciilifeform;theoretically in fact yes -- right here in the torture room
1866475;1540573827;mircea_popescu;built one yet ?
1866476;1540573830;asciilifeform;supposing we wanted one
1866477;1540573848;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nope, as in fact noted in the head of thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343
1866478;1540573848;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
1866479;1540573858;asciilifeform;it needs that 1 magick trick.
1866480;1540573877;mircea_popescu;speaking of which -- an ada-to-verilog item would prolly be very fucking useful
1866481;1540573887;mircea_popescu;looks to me like about half of what we write, we'll end up baking eventually.
1866482;1540573898;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they're sorta fundamentally immiscible, verilog is not a procedural/algorithmic lang
1866483;1540573906;asciilifeform;it's a wiring diagrammator, if you like.
1866484;1540573910;mircea_popescu;yes but how strong is that sorta ?
1866485;1540573910;asciilifeform;all the lines 'execute at once'
1866486;1540573930;mircea_popescu;recursive and functional also "sorta inmiscible", at least until bright kid
1866487;1540573940;asciilifeform;it compiles into a gate netlist, rather than sequence of instructions for vonneumann cpu.
1866488;1540573951;mircea_popescu;no dood i understand the differences.
1866489;1540573980;asciilifeform;there actually exists an ada-flavoured variant, 'vdhl', but i never saw any win from it, loox rather like simply a moar verbose verilog. but! to be fair, that was 10y ago when i last dug, it was prior to asciilifeform's getting into adaism.
1866490;1540573986;asciilifeform;err, vhdl
1866491;1540573999;asciilifeform;most gate compilers support both.
1866492;1540574026;BingoBoingo;In other propaganda: https://archive.is/P7sge What kind of ethnic background does the apellido "Sayoc" suggest?
1866493;1540574049;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nepal??
1866494;1540574065;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: "White" dude
1866495;1540574068;asciilifeform;lol!
1866496;1540574078;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform "what sort of speed hit" is also a topic.
1866497;1540574102;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in re the disk thing ? depends entirely on the serpentron. so open q.
1866498;1540574128;asciilifeform;and yes a ciphrator that gives you a disk that runs at speed of msdos 5inch floppy, aint very sexy.
1866499;1540574170;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1866500;1540574194;mircea_popescu;of course once baked could also be put in ~everything else. including say phones or w/e.
1866501;1540574206;asciilifeform;theoretically anyffing that eats normal block devices nao, yes
1866502;1540574220;asciilifeform;the remaining open q re iron is 'how to throw in key', is separate q
1866503;1540574258;mircea_popescu;note that eg the eulora spec (low value item anyway) has MANY keys.
1866504;1540574267;asciilifeform;could simply make it a serial input, and let user decide what he likes, e.g. he has a vt100 he can plug in, or tape reader, or which.
1866505;1540574324;asciilifeform;one potentially interesting variation on the theme is if a key block contained an offset-length into the drive. so pluggin in diff keys could give you diff 'disks', which are normally indistinguishable from noise.
1866506;1540574360;mircea_popescu;meh. sd small enough as it is.
1866507;1540574367;asciilifeform;sd can be had in half TB and moar
1866508;1540574377;asciilifeform;i even have some here.
1866509;1540574405;mircea_popescu;what did you pay for one ?
1866510;1540574424;asciilifeform;approx same 'by byte' as ordinary 2.5" samsungs
1866511;1540574433;asciilifeform;it dun win any speed races, of course. but is available.
1866512;1540574452;mircea_popescu;hm
1866513;1540574481;asciilifeform;e.g. 200GB samsung sd is ~fiddybux
1866514;1540574501;mircea_popescu;aha
1866515;1540574521;asciilifeform;they're still going down in cost, also.
1866516;1540574653;mircea_popescu;well, so in actionables : probably dusting off vdhl worth your time, see how it feels. possibly baking serpentdisk worth your time, tho at this point seems kinda soso.
1866517;1540574670;asciilifeform;( i was initially testing rk pilot plant to run off sd, discarded on acct of meh speed vs usb3 )
1866518;1540574755;asciilifeform;vhdl is prolly worth a 2nd look, tho i currently suspect that it vs verilog aint a 'ada vs c' win, simply longer text that does same thing ( the only unit of data in fpgaism is really the bit, so 'types' dun exist )
1866519;1540574772;asciilifeform;and the q of 'would serpent fit in ice40' is imho also worth answering. i'ma put it in the pipe.
1866520;1540574890;mircea_popescu;the one thing i really don't like is that wtf block devices of two block sizes.
1866521;1540574899;asciilifeform;if, incidentally, somebody runs across the quasi-mythical src of the old attempts, potentially could decruft/fit-in-head . so plox to write in if find.
1866522;1540574917;mircea_popescu;IF i had a workable understanding of block ciphers, we could bake a device-block-tailored cipher and at least have that to show god.
1866523;1540574919;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: two block sizes ?
1866524;1540574931;mircea_popescu;well one for the cipher the other for the disk
1866525;1540574964;asciilifeform;theoretically usb storage allows arbitrary block size .
1866526;1540574984;asciilifeform;( in practice never tried anyffing but 512 , so whoknows )
1866527;1540574991;mircea_popescu;i thought sds came into native blocksizes and yeah sure the driver atop will let you believe w/e.
1866528;1540575012;asciilifeform;the native one the korean nands give you is usually 4096 as it is
1866529;1540575029;asciilifeform;linux goes along pretending that it's 512 for 'legacyism' , from userland pov
1866530;1540575042;asciilifeform;but if you actually touch the disk, it erases a 4096byte chunk
1866531;1540575152;asciilifeform;the 1 other tricky detail is that you gotta include block ~number~ ( or hash thereof, or some variant ) ~inside~ the plaintext for each block, or you get the penguin
1866532;1540575189;asciilifeform;( the https://blog.filippo.io/content/images/2015/11/Tux_ecb.jpg one )
1866533;1540575251;asciilifeform;along with , ideally, some rng crud
1866534;1540575258;asciilifeform;( pill against 'known plaintext'ism )
1866535;1540575322;mircea_popescu;but wasnt serpent size 256byte ?
1866536;1540575606;hanbot;in other still-using-google fun, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 << news search for bitcoin nominally yields 103M results, of which shitoogle will actually produce 290, which in turn yields ~30 non-duplicates. delayed another week i expect for spelunking.
1866537;1540575606;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
1866538;1540575629;mircea_popescu;hanbot spelunking like how ?
1866539;1540575656;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-patsy-identified-56-year-old-filipino-american-cesar-altieri-sayoc/ << Qntra - FBI Patsy Identified: 56 Year Old Filipino American Cesar Altieri Sayoc
1866540;1540575668;hanbot;something like incrementally sticking date bands into the query and moving ever backward
1866541;1540575686;mircea_popescu;eh, delaying terrible strategy. it's how tbf managed its splendid record to date
1866542;1540575692;mircea_popescu;how about do what you have do more if find more later.
1866543;1540575706;mircea_popescu;nobody yet managed to fill belly on delayed soup.
1866544;1540575731;hanbot;alright, i'll have nicoleci send off the first batch asap.
1866545;1540575742;mircea_popescu;if she can find them.
1866546;1540575771;hanbot;if she can find what? she's got what to send and where to send it, 30x.
1866547;1540576628;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: classical serpent eats 256bit key. but ( as illustrated in http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/ ) eats/shits 16 byte payload blox as it goes; a 4096 byte flash sector would need 8 of these, plus i suspect a 9th for the block # ( see earlier re 'known plaintext'ism etc )
1866548;1540576663;mircea_popescu;myeah. now, if i could have a cipher that has 512 byte payload, the above "single block" thing'd be satisfied. see ?
1866549;1540576670;mircea_popescu;as it is, two block sizes like morons.
1866550;1540576678;mircea_popescu;various other such moronicities scattered about.
1866551;1540576755;*;asciilifeform not a great luvvver of symmetricipherism in general, as amply illustrated in the l0gz, for this and other reasons -- there is no known approach to bake symmetricism from any sort of rational angle
1866552;1540576877;mircea_popescu;right.
1866553;1540576898;mircea_popescu;but the great gain of this morning is that at least all of this now -- on very readable record.
1866554;1540576929;mircea_popescu;with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done.
1866555;1540576958;mircea_popescu;safe enough bet, seeing how it's 99% same as writing code, and they can't do that to save their lives either.
1866556;1540577217;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done. << Just gotta make the definition of "white men" more inclusive like the FBI is doing
1866557;1540577249;mircea_popescu;yeah, totally, "inclusive" delivered such great benefits, only more of it could possibly save us.
1866558;1540577289;mircea_popescu;it's lulzy, btw, in all times of plague there emerges this obscure cult of "plague is good for you, get moar rats in your bed" etc.
1866559;1540577293;mircea_popescu;!#s poz my neg hole
1866560;1540577294;a111;4 results for "poz my neg hole", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=poz%20my%20neg%20hole
1866561;1540577300;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: even the fundamental shit-into-toilet-not-pants of 'run gedankenexperiment before actually building' seems to be going away in heathendom
1866562;1540577307;asciilifeform;folx just pick up an' build , build pyramid
1866563;1540577323;mircea_popescu;all things equally etc, rite.
1866564;1540577330;mircea_popescu;why discriminate.
1866565;1540577332;asciilifeform;then, 'surprise', falls into pieces, crushes
1866566;1540577358;mircea_popescu;no, all the better. leaves space for more building.
1866567;1540577410;mircea_popescu;wasps only build soundly because genetics ; individually they'd much prefer to build shoddily -- moar building to do!
1866568;1540577426;BingoBoingo;And the rubble makes for convenient aggregate in the next cement mixing
1866569;1540577435;mircea_popescu;they who build out of compulsion kinda end up like this. no ocd washer ever suffered from "this is clean"
1866570;1540577446;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ikr!
1866571;1540577521;BingoBoingo;It's the "lego" disease. Train kids to build shoddily and keep reusing the parts in a cycle of shanty town
1866572;1540577571;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: keep in mind that the lego you had as a boy, hasn't existed in decade+ , afaik, per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710146
1866573;1540577571;a111;Logged on 2017-09-02 20:04 phf: i'd say it's more like 80s lego and modern lego (if you haven't seen, now it's all >50% custom per-toy parts, that can be snapped to a traditional lego coupling, but otherwise non-universal)
1866574;1540577581;asciilifeform;( if not 20y )
1866575;1540577595;asciilifeform;the current-day variant of the toy is exactly 'ruby on rails'-style abortion
1866576;1540577665;mircea_popescu;o wow, they defeated the whole fucking purpose ?
1866577;1540577669;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Even back then there were ~5% to 10% non standard parts meaning if one when missing doomed to shanty town construction.
1866578;1540577671;mircea_popescu;such progress!
1866579;1540577692;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: fwiw the sov clone i had , had 100% interchangeable bricks.
1866580;1540577699;mircea_popescu;cuz "why should kids build toys they didn't pay for" amirite ? apple ftw ?
1866581;1540577706;asciilifeform;( in variant colours, but otherwise identical to the limits of naked eye comparison )
1866582;1540577721;mircea_popescu;same here.
1866583;1540577725;asciilifeform;in retrospect i'm actually a bit surprised that they pulled off the fine molding
1866584;1540577726;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The clone over here were better as well, completely interchangeable, except... They didn't click together as well.
1866585;1540577729;mircea_popescu;i had two trucks which together built a nice house.
1866586;1540577766;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the cloned brix were amazing, survived all kindsa mechanical abuse without so much as a scratch, much less brea
1866587;1540577766;asciilifeform;k
1866588;1540577771;mircea_popescu;in memory of this, ima go eat pineapple while watching dollies wash car.
1866589;1540577810;asciilifeform;btw re lego, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=16 << 2008
1866590;1540577812;BingoBoingo;Youngest brother got a set with a "Mountain" made of two molded half pieces with standard lego dots as the centerpiece.
1866591;1540577820;asciilifeform;in 2008 already was ~extinct.
1866592;1540577944;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, when i moved to usa, i briefly got hold of the 'genuine' lego, and was somewhat disappoint
1866593;1540577971;asciilifeform;brittle stuff, and after coupla 100 'clicks', turns 'unclickable'
1866594;1540577987;BingoBoingo;Here in Uruguay lego (genuine or imitation) is a very recent arrival.
1866595;1540577991;BingoBoingo;~3 years or so.
1866596;1540578000;asciilifeform;was a sort of 'first swallow of spring' re asciilifeform's third eye opening .
1866597;1540578085;asciilifeform;when sov engineers knew how to make a konsoomer item 'eternal' -- they did. ( e.g. famous 'buran' vacuum cleaner, still shows up now and again on lulzbay, when i finally move my arse to 220v country, i'ma buy it ) . when they didn't know, they made eternally maintainable .
1866598;1540578164;asciilifeform;picture, ~60 y.o. vaccuum cleaners that still work, just like when new, and where filter washable and ~indestructible.
1866599;1540578214;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-13#1099550 << see also.
1866600;1540578214;a111;Logged on 2015-04-13 14:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` for the record, traditional (european) cooking happened around this large flat table of very thick oak
1866601;1540578228;asciilifeform;( iirc there was an extended mircea_popescu piece re subj, but i cannot nao recall which )
1866602;1540578243;asciilifeform;re those oaken tables, good as new 200+ yrs into their duty cycle.
1866603;1540578313;BingoBoingo;I am going to ponder this while I run some errands, inevitably seeing at least two air cooled volkswagens buffered by a vast gulf of nothing seperating them from the late model Chinese plasticars
1866604;1540578325;asciilifeform;lol havefun
1866605;1540578405;BingoBoingo;Will do.
1866606;1540579639;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866516 << this quickly led to dead end, incidentally -- the ice40 'icestorm' proggy dun seem to eat vhdl...
1866607;1540579639;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 17:24 mircea_popescu: well, so in actionables : probably dusting off vdhl worth your time, see how it feels. possibly baking serpentdisk worth your time, tho at this point seems kinda soso.
1866608;1540579683;asciilifeform;( suxx when there is only 1 working example of a thing... )
1866609;1540579703;asciilifeform;there's a converter, but it smacks of ye olde c2fortran
1866610;1540580228;mircea_popescu;my ~grandparents~ had a buran. though perhaps i said this
1866611;1540580239;asciilifeform;oh ha yea i recall old thrd nao.
1866612;1540580252;mircea_popescu;i was fucking scared of that thing, as a 5yo
1866613;1540580265;asciilifeform;it had a mighty roar.
1866614;1540580287;mircea_popescu;ikr!
1866615;1540580401;asciilifeform;appropriately named, even! 'sandstorm'
1866616;1540580416;asciilifeform;there was also a 'typhoon' and various others, all on roughly same scheme.
1866617;1540580449;asciilifeform;had, conveniently, 2 holes, suck hole and blow hole. dunno why this aint standard today.
1866618;1540580636;mircea_popescu;how isn;'t it ?!
1866619;1540580663;asciilifeform;standard ameri-konsoomer vac has 1 hose hole, suck-only.
1866620;1540580683;mircea_popescu;so where does the air go lmao
1866621;1540580689;mircea_popescu;flakes out condensate ? degenerate matter ?
1866622;1540580696;asciilifeform;it goes out of a grate, no hose hole
1866623;1540580712;mircea_popescu;heh
1866624;1540580767;asciilifeform;i have a vaguely buran-like chinese thing, with 2 holes, but it eats paper filters, typical modern sad
1866625;1540580797;mircea_popescu;yeah, same thing i got downstairs for car detialing.
1866626;1540580803;mircea_popescu;tube section with a lid
1866627;1540580818;mircea_popescu;the buran had this wunderbar chiseled dome.
1866628;1540580850;asciilifeform;it did! with the brushed coating. there was a whole story re the d00d who came up with that, but i've sadly misplaced.
1866629;1540580893;asciilifeform;came in gold- and silvery- tint. ( who said sov konsoomer sector knew no decoration!11 )
1866630;1540580951;asciilifeform;in later years asciilifeform's folx got a 'rocket' , long streamlined sucker that looked kinda like naval torpedo. after 5yo asciilifeform visited naval museum, then eyed thing with suspicion..
1866631;1540581329;mircea_popescu;i dunno, mine had this green enamel outside
1866632;1540581341;mircea_popescu;i wish i knew how they did that, incidentally. undentable fucking enamel.
1866633;1540581343;asciilifeform;possibly moar variants than i ever saw, who even knows how many
1866634;1540581348;asciilifeform;'rocket' had that enamel.
1866635;1540581357;asciilifeform;i suspect , was same enamel as on actual rockets..
1866636;1540581366;mircea_popescu;kinda half-considering starting jewelry workshop for slave labour... that'd be so great.
1866637;1540581394;asciilifeform;what wouldja have'em make ?
1866638;1540581405;mircea_popescu;i dunno, cunt jewelry.
1866639;1540581418;mircea_popescu;girls that are naked indoors prime jewelry target.
1866640;1540581436;*;mircea_popescu slowly rediscovering ottoman 15th century techs here ;/
1866641;1540581825;mircea_popescu;ehehe " but really, why sweep the pink flamingos under the rug". spyked's like all smooth an' shit.
1866642;1540582491;mircea_popescu;diana_coman http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/25/smg-comms-chapter-4-c-wrappers-for-rsa-and-mpi/#selection-45.2-45.209 << couldn't just test top bit ?
1866643;1540587478;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, uhm...no/
1866644;1540587514;diana_coman;sure, one can implement the comparison in Ada
1866645;1540587538;diana_coman;but going that route ...can implement the mpi arithmetic too, right?
1866646;1540587643;asciilifeform;diana_coman: out of curiosity -- given what mircea_popescu said the other day re necessary speed of rsa ops, could potentially use the current (11) ffa ?
1866647;1540587670;asciilifeform;the front end aint gonna change, so potentially could, as i understand
1866648;1540587677;diana_coman;asciilifeform, potentially yes
1866649;1540587701;asciilifeform;key gen would be a bitch tho
1866650;1540587731;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
1866651;1540587757;asciilifeform;diana_coman: until you wrote the recent piece, i actually forgot that mpi ~didnt~ shit out ordinary octet arrays as-supplied
1866652;1540587783;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it shits a shit: there is get_mpi_buffer and set_mpi_buffer that theoretically do that
1866653;1540587807;asciilifeform;recently was going over ancient notes from my torture room, and it was actually on my to-do, right before i shelved the thing
1866654;1540587809;diana_coman;BUT: for one thing as previously noticed + tested they trim leading 0 so if you feed it an array with 0 you will NOT get it back the same
1866655;1540587832;asciilifeform;yea kochian 'normalization' (variable-width representation of bignums) does that.
1866656;1540587843;diana_coman;and for the other it's the C style thing where it allocates memory the way it sees fit and the caller is supposed afterwards to clean up the mess when it likes
1866657;1540587851;asciilifeform;ugh
1866658;1540587881;diana_coman;precisely why I preferred to make a wrapper for it so I don't import the whole stinking pile further up
1866659;1540587898;asciilifeform;it's how i wrap c-isms, also, yea
1866660;1540587904;asciilifeform;( e.g. in the udp thing )
1866661;1540587963;diana_coman;but it's true that doing the whole conversion to c and conversion back *just for the sake of an MPI comparison* might be uglier than just walking the arrays and seeing which one has a bit set first
1866662;1540587989;asciilifeform;yea but you wouldn't want the idjicy to leak upstream ( per e.g. last night's 'spackling' thread )
1866663;1540588009;asciilifeform;idea being, c-isms stop at the spackling layer and propagate no further
1866664;1540588112;diana_coman;yes, this is for the OAEP part - current algo repeats the oaep padding until the result is < modulus of given key (since otherwise it can't rsa afterwards)
1866665;1540588118;diana_coman;the oaep padding is in ada
1866666;1540588139;asciilifeform;relatedly, asciilifeform is writing a sane paths-handling lib, and it's an uphill climb, tricky to get to/from c representations without pointerism
1866667;1540588150;diana_coman;but the comparison is iffy since either a. call c-wrapper and so do conversion from ada's oaep array of octets to C's MPI shit
1866668;1540588162;diana_coman;or b. make an Ada comparison of 2 arrays of octets
1866669;1540588181;diana_coman;basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
1866670;1540588222;asciilifeform;mpi has a signed subtract, iirc
1866671;1540588223;asciilifeform;can use that
1866672;1540588226;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I gave up on using gnat's ; mainly because at previous experience things went weird quite quickly
1866673;1540588233;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it even has mpi_compare
1866674;1540588237;diana_coman;but...it wants MPI!
1866675;1540588240;diana_coman;hence: convert
1866676;1540588240;asciilifeform;aaaa
1866677;1540588246;asciilifeform;ok makes sense
1866678;1540588258;diana_coman;yes, c_wrappers that I wrote have a wrapper for precisely that mpi_compare thing among other stuff
1866679;1540588275;asciilifeform;but yes, i forgot that the comparison happens after oaep
1866680;1540588313;diana_coman;that's the headache: oaep in ada, comparison in C, if not right, oaep in ada again, if right then rsa in C
1866681;1540588397;diana_coman;and yes, the mpi-variable-buffer-returned gives me some headaches
1866682;1540588431;*;diana_coman is still pondering the best way to treat that so it doesn't make a mess
1866683;1540588508;asciilifeform;the conversions are O(bitness) tho, i dun expect they will be major dent in performance. simply ugly aesthetically.
1866684;1540588586;diana_coman;asciilifeform, theoretically yes; practically since one calls stuff from mpi lib to create the MPIs, there are all sorts of things going on in there
1866685;1540588857;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866643 - to detail this: technically speaking one CAN test top bit until it's 0 for the oaep block (hence for *sure* < modulus) but I don't think it's great mainly because: 1. this fixes one more bit 2. it's really a way bigger hammer than needed - it can start with 1 and be smaller than modulus so potentially increases the number of repeat-oaep without any good reason 3. it's not even particularly clean,
1866686;1540588857;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 20:57 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, uhm...no/
1866687;1540588857;diana_coman; more of a hack to accommodate the stink of MPI - not sure it's something we want in there; if anything, I guess I can see more the point to just walking the octets in the array and basically doing the comparison in Ada
1866688;1540588962;diana_coman;asciilifeform, in some sense MPI lib is a very good illustration for all sorts of things - "make a call and be surprised" sort of things, especially re memory allocation
1866689;1540589011;asciilifeform;it was a terrifing thing, i ran away from it. and buggy, also, per diana_coman's dig, and i'm not even convinced that we know the full extent of the buggism.
1866690;1540589071;asciilifeform;esp. in re routines not used in ye olde gpg, or used with various constraints
1866691;1540589133;diana_coman;asciilifeform, myeah, I don't claim I fully know everything that goes on in there and I quite doubt anybody does; and ftr yes, I'm not at all comfortable with the fact that I had to and have to sign it but... I have to, pretty much
1866692;1540589152;asciilifeform;the very notion of heapism in a crypto lib, gives me hives
1866693;1540589394;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1866694;1540598738;BingoBoingo;!!v EFD4B069AB0E3AF5638641F4F299DC98E97B36FA78F98570EBCFE04CE7B575EC
1866695;1540598744;deedbot;BingoBoingo paid trinque invoice 3
1866696;1540599585;trinque;cheers BingoBoingo
1866697;1540600617;BingoBoingo;Cheers
1866698;1540603585;mod6;thanks trinque
1866699;1540604577;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866650 << normally not an issue worth thinking about ; but if it coems with saving a lot of gnarly back and forth,,,
1866700;1540604577;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 21:02 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
1866701;1540604969;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
1866702;1540604969;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 21:09 diana_coman: basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
1866703;1540605060;mircea_popescu;i wont cry if every once in 256 cases you do an extra oaep that 50-50 might've not been needed.
1866704;1540609282;mircea_popescu;hey BingoBoingo
1866705;1540609287;mircea_popescu;didja hear the fatican elected a new fope ?
1866706;1540612287;BingoBoingo;Oh?
1866707;1540612313;BingoBoingo;Who's the hammiest of the hams now?
1866708;1540612773;BingoBoingo;And Commentz http://qntra.net/2018/10/fbi-patsy-identified-56-year-old-filipino-american-cesar-altieri-sayoc/#comments
1866709;1540613595;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/systemd-vulnerability-allows-crashing-systems-remotely-and-probably-executing-code-too-with-dhcpv6-packets/ << Qntra - SystemD Vulnerability Allows Crashing Systems Remotely (And Probably Executing Code Too) With DHCPv6 Packets
1866710;1540619192;mircea_popescu;o hey Mocky
1866711;1540619199;Mocky;good morning
1866712;1540619203;mircea_popescu;top systemd keks. pwn eins!
1866713;1540619257;*;BingoBoingo still waiting to hear the new fope's identity
1866714;1540619405;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there.
1866715;1540619437;Mocky;mircea_popescu,  do you have any interest in kuwait? if so I can keep this lead warm on the back burner while I work qatar
1866716;1540619483;mircea_popescu;Mocky not particularly, but i mean... your gf or w/e.
1866717;1540619719;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there. << AH, I though maybe Tess Hollandaise died of excess mass and had been replaced as leader of the hamplanets by a younger, dumpier model
1866718;1540620768;mircea_popescu;fraid not.
1866719;1540623471;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/cabinas-genesis-y-otras-ostras/ << Trilema - Cabinas Genesis y otras ostras.
1866720;1540626893;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866701 - ok, I'll implement it this way then and we see
1866721;1540626893;a111;Logged on 2018-10-27 01:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
1866722;1540640648;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07e-hermannstadt-ii.html << The Tar Pit - Hermannstadt, part two: the huge-ass photo shoot
1866723;1540658216;deedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2593 << Loper OS - Can the Serpent Cipher fit in the ICE40 FPGA?
1866724;1540658987;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform basically, if it fits in 1/3 of the chip ?
1866725;1540660567;asciilifeform;approx, yes ( tho keep in mind that said chip, in order to do useful work, gotta have at least a bit of room for other things, unless one were to equip board with >1 ( not end of the world, they're, what, 8bux ) )
1866726;1540660641;hanbot;mod6, ben_vulpes, et al: nicoleci sent 31 emails (as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 ) to various news outlets last night, and will report any replies here. i expect more mail to go out this week, will update.
1866727;1540660641;a111;Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
1866728;1540660725;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: observe also that the sbox mechanism is 'bitsliced' (i.e. the bits move only 'vertically' there ) so potentially it can be shrunk at expense of speed . so the real puzzler isn't 'does serpent fit', it can almost certainly be shoehorned, but 'with how little/much unrollage' i.e. what resulting eating bitrate.
1866729;1540660775;asciilifeform;it is also possible that the equations can be simplified further, i did a fairly surface job of it, mostly by hand
1866730;1540660790;asciilifeform;literally 2hr's evening wurk.
1866731;1540660915;asciilifeform;btw, spoiler : i put the thing in an ice40-8k , simply did not have time to write up yet, and the fwd sbox in fact eats roughly 1/4 of the gates . which leaves the orig question wide open...
1866732;1540661072;asciilifeform;in other minutiae, the terms i left in xor-containing form, can of course be expressed in not/and/or , but this resulted in seven-term ORs , which i assumed is a greater delay than to let it use a xor LUT; but this is not experimentally confirmed, and one might conceivably get better throughput if all of the terms were rewritten in the and/or/not form.
1866733;1540661132;asciilifeform;'yosys' ( 'icestorm'-'s synthesizer, suggests a max clock rate of ~25Mhz for the posted form. )
1866734;1540661157;asciilifeform;hanbot: neato, ty
1866735;1540661252;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so did you measure throughput of this thing ?
1866736;1540661301;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as in, whether it actually sboxates at the stated 25MHz ? notyet, gotta write a serial i/o thing for it, to do this. possibly later today.
1866737;1540661335;asciilifeform;i expect the sbox won't actually be the bottleneck in a full serpentron tho
1866738;1540661345;asciilifeform;rather, it'll be the rotational transforms.
1866739;1540661368;asciilifeform;those are blocking, i.e. take multiple clocks ea.
1866740;1540661427;asciilifeform;imho, if an ice40 can be coaxed into serpenting at , say, 1MB/s, it's worth sumthing, otherwise iffy
1866741;1540661475;asciilifeform;( and conceivably, worth sumthing even if it takes having ~two~ on the board; problem is that i dun presently have a board with 2 , to actually try )
1866742;1540661531;asciilifeform;believe or not, seems like nobody has ever publicly baked a board with >1
1866743;1540661549;asciilifeform;i've gathered afaik all of the commercial demo boards with ice40, they all have 1 ea.
1866744;1540661889;asciilifeform;if i were baking asic ( not sure why anybody would blow 'orbit' moneys on serpent asic, but for the sake of arg ) would unroll the sbox invocation the way it is unrolled in the pc serpent diana_coman is using, there'd be no reason not to have 128 or what, independent copies. but in the tight space of ice40 this is out of the question.
1866745;1540661997;asciilifeform;err, 32
1866746;1540662025;asciilifeform;is the actual parallelism of the algo. the rotator would likewise win from having 32 physical instances, as obvious from http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.15048-87.17527
1866747;1540662099;asciilifeform;so from that point it becomes a q of the actual gate delays. in principle a serpentron that does coupla 100MB/s is physically possible. ( just not on my desk, lol )
1866748;1540662328;asciilifeform;i admit, the seekrit reason asciilifeform could even be arsed to pick the thing up, is that to write serpent in maximally algebraic form might tell us sumthing useful re the weakness.
1866749;1540662372;asciilifeform;( the orig author, to be fair, did write it algebraically, but in imho somewhat cryptic form )
1866750;1540662417;mod6;hanbot: That's awesome, thanks!
1866751;1540662527;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: grr, typo, ~65~ not 25
1866752;1540662715;asciilifeform;but funnily enuff, just from this 2hr lulz we already know moar than from my combined stash of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343 pointlessly-murdered trees...
1866753;1540662715;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
1866754;1540662802;asciilifeform;ohai mod6
1866755;1540662813;mod6;hai, how goes alf?
1866756;1540662821;asciilifeform;mod6: slowly
1866757;1540662828;mod6;werd
1866758;1540662830;asciilifeform;mod6: goin' back to my very full ada plate
1866759;1540662846;mod6;yeah, sounds like you've got a lot you wanna work on.
1866760;1540662898;asciilifeform;mod6: that, + tall pile of saecular rubbish
1866761;1540663038;mod6;asciilifeform: *nod*
1866762;1540663765;asciilifeform;!#s from:|\n
1866763;1540663765;a111;23 results for "from:|\\n", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3A%7C%5Cn
1866764;1540663800;asciilifeform;aah cr50 d00d
1866765;1540664597;mircea_popescu;i certainly see the point re "explore the space" ; and yes a serpent implemented as both eulora workhorse and verilog is better studied than just former.
1866766;1540664611;asciilifeform;!!up |\n
1866767;1540664612;deedbot;|\n voiced for 30 minutes.
1866768;1540664627;mircea_popescu;i don't even think there's anything wrong whatsoever with studying the damned thing. my reservations were strictly around investing any kind of "this is te republic's encryptodisk" flag on it\
1866769;1540664682;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i view block ciphertrons as a 'slightly better than nuffin' kind of tech -- would slightly rather lose a serpented disk to enemy than naked one; but that's about it
1866770;1540664691;|\n;hello, was wondering if you've heard anything about this in particular https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://github.com/RUB-SysSec/Microcode/blob/master/ff_div/fx_payload_exec_linux32_fx_50.0_set_eip.html
1866771;1540664706;mircea_popescu;i'd rather hang the moron flattering himself with "enemy" that tried to lose me a disk than either of these.
1866772;1540664732;mircea_popescu;|\n suppose you start by introducing yourself and showing the minimum awareness of republican process of using sane fucking pastebins.
1866773;1540664741;asciilifeform;hang straight off the yardarm of dirigible, wainot
1866774;1540664752;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cuz it attracts crows.
1866775;1540664824;asciilifeform;|\n: haven't seen, but if it actually worx, will be hilarious
1866776;1540664856;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: linked item alleges that if one divides 0xa1a2a3a4 by 0xb1b2b3b4 on x86, triggers magic nsa hole.
1866777;1540664877;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jb4Pz/?raw=true << for perma-l0gz.
1866778;1540664886;|\n;not to mention that amount of such holes, of course if that works, is immense
1866779;1540664906;asciilifeform;|\n: where'dja come across this, and for what chip is it alleged to work ?
1866780;1540664973;|\n;on a local russian irc party
1866781;1540665001;mircea_popescu;is this more of that romanian fellow's "magical usb stick aliens" ?
1866782;1540665063;mircea_popescu;Firefox 50.0 32-bit on Linux << should be easy enough to test
1866783;1540665100;asciilifeform;eh |\n it's a duck : apparent source is https://ecc2017.coreboot.org/uploads/talk/presentation/38/Microcode.pdf talk , and demands a pre-diddled, per the recipe, old amd k8/k10
1866784;1540665102;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 2828046480 / 3432026256
1866785;1540665102;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 0.824016563118
1866786;1540665110;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: piltdown man
1866787;1540665133;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs
1866788;1540665138;asciilifeform;( flip to last pg )
1866789;1540665164;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: yes i recall very well. this one is genuine, tho, but one half of a rigged academi-demo, requires ~their~ microcode patch
1866790;1540665167;asciilifeform;rather than a wild thing.
1866791;1540665192;asciilifeform;'As explained in Section 7.2, we use ASM.JS code in Firefox 50 to trigger the implemented x86 div Trojan. It is shown in Listing 9.'
1866792;1540665205;mircea_popescu;so basically this is a bug in asm.js ?
1866793;1540665225;asciilifeform;nah, it's part of a 'if you could patch microcode, here's how you might trigger the bomb' stage magic demo.
1866794;1540665235;asciilifeform;there's no 0day here.
1866795;1540665248;asciilifeform;evidently sumbody passed it off to |\n as an 0day
1866796;1540665276;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oFd2X/?raw=true << full text of the pdfturd, for the l0gz.
1866797;1540665288;|\n;well not really, i'm not too much 0day-aware kind of person as well
1866798;1540665302;asciilifeform;|\n: if it was shown to you as 'omfg exploit!111', you've been duped.
1866799;1540665330;asciilifeform;the given coad does nuffin on an off-the-shelf chip. it was an example meant to work with supplied microcode patch.
1866800;1540665351;mircea_popescu;of course, microcode patches happen in the wild, so it's not entirely meritless.
1866801;1540665371;asciilifeform;theoretically the trigger for the ~actual~ boobytrap in x86 cpu would look very similar, yes
1866802;1540665387;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not meritless, but not a weapon, toy store water gun, is the idea.
1866803;1540665459;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: needs diddled bios + the crown jewels of intel/amd, to diddle microcode (intel's is rsa'd, amd's simply obscure/undoc'd) , and if yer diddling bios can make much simpler trap. but yes, would work
1866804;1540665495;asciilifeform;i saw |\n's snippet and thought 'loox familiar' and sure enuff it was in that 2017 piece.
1866805;1540665509;mircea_popescu;aha
1866806;1540665515;asciilifeform;|\n get yourself a key already and reg with deedbot
1866807;1540665517;asciilifeform;!!help
1866808;1540665517;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/help.html
1866809;1540665620;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu:  http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866787 << for the record >> http://trilema.com/2013/badbios-aka-badlydonedamagecontrol/
1866810;1540665620;a111;Logged on 2018-10-27 18:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs
1866811;1540665622;asciilifeform;famous lulgem
1866812;1540665689;asciilifeform;observe that the gag vanished without a trace.
1866813;1540665709;mircea_popescu;you know ?
1866814;1540665716;mircea_popescu;shit-at-wall strategy.
1866815;1540665733;asciilifeform;it went to where all cheap psyops lulz go when they die.
1866816;1540665771;mircea_popescu;mit ?
1866817;1540665868;asciilifeform;sorta like the usual 'hey i found nessie' 'wouldja like to borrow my diving gear and thermal cam?' 'mmm nessie is invisible to thermal cam and what's a diving mask' '...'
1866818;1540665941;asciilifeform;in today's variation, 'hey i found a dead mermaid' 'um, this is a bloated dolphin carcass' '...'
1866819;1540666105;*;asciilifeform bbl:meat
1866820;1540677620;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform here's a q : how feasible/costly would it be to have an array of tiny switches ? say 32x8 ?
1866821;1540677633;mircea_popescu;bring back ye olde switch-bootloading!!!
1866822;1540680648;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what sorta switches are you thinking of ? if it's ye olde DIPs, nobody cancelled'em, they're maybe a dime for a block of 8, and look today exactly as you remember then from yer 286
1866823;1540680663;asciilifeform;or are we talking spring-loaded thingies for reading punched card, or wat.
1866824;1540680767;asciilifeform;archaetypical example, say, https://archive.is/0IRmv photo
1866825;1540680833;asciilifeform;i'll point out that nobody ever booted from '32x8 block' tho, if you recall folx booted from 8 (or 9 or whatever your byte bitness) + 'forward' button, word-at-a-time
1866826;1540680840;asciilifeform;flipping massive grid with fingers is a bitch
1866827;1540680922;asciilifeform;on subj : https://archive.is/7ILm0 << notbad illustration of how pdp was booted.
1866828;1540680938;asciilifeform;( the classic pdp-8, that is )
1866829;1540680998;asciilifeform;actually scrach that, it's a terrible illustration. but i dun have a good one handy.
1866830;1540681158;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if it's for cipher keys -- imho terrible idea to have ~all~ the key bits as physical switched in parallel, third party has no biznis being able to see the key simply by getting a peek at a keyed box with eyes
1866831;1540681230;asciilifeform;*switches in
1866832;1540681807;asciilifeform;( you also wanna be able to unkey a box at a second's notice, and that aint happening with parallel key-as-switches, either )
1866833;1540681843;asciilifeform;it's why usg lost its precious keyz when bestkorea took famous ship 'pueblo'
1866834;1540681889;asciilifeform;( iirc the prescribed key-wipe mechanism was a brick of dynamite, and the crew decided it wanted to live a bit moar )
1866835;1540681941;deedbot;http://bingology.net/2018/10/27/peso-watch-october-2018-edition/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Peso Watch October 2018 Edition
1866836;1540684651;mod6;!!ledger
1866837;1540684656;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GNpJi/?raw=true
1866838;1540684658;mod6;!!sent-invoices
1866839;1540684668;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ySf7t/?raw=true
1866840;1540689424;deedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2627 << Loper OS - Serpent in ICE40, Part 2.
1866841;1540697309;mircea_popescu;alf is evidently having fun.
1866842;1540701348;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was thinking dips
1866843;1540701478;mircea_popescu;item could have a certain artful oldschool-cool air about it, if the key was dips.
1866844;1540701545;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i considered it, yrs ago, but imho it has serious minuses in the field
1866845;1540701557;mircea_popescu;i suppose this is true.
1866846;1540701695;mircea_popescu;can it take normal kbd then ?
1866847;1540701744;asciilifeform;easily
1866848;1540701760;asciilifeform;( where 'normal' is ps/2 say )
1866849;1540702044;mircea_popescu;right.
1866850;1540702053;mircea_popescu;well... keyin pw every bootup, i guess.
1866851;1540702357;asciilifeform;was how i pictured it.
1866852;1540702417;asciilifeform;tbf in principle you dun need kbd, at minimum, only 1 char 'eye hole' and left/right/enter button set
1866853;1540702467;mircea_popescu;takes too long. just type a pw, what.
1866854;1540702481;asciilifeform;( usg's locks work this way, one of their few sane techs, 1980s vintage. thing starts each new char at random init value, too, so peeker dun see anyffin useful from the side )
1866855;1540702537;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: idea being that one could enter pw even with other folx ( in e.g. restaurant ) looking on.
1866856;1540702551;mircea_popescu;this is so not the usercase...
1866857;1540702591;asciilifeform;specifically it, no. but, say, using in a room where windows without blackout tape , possible use case.
1866858;1540702619;mircea_popescu;i suppose the ~usecase is where dorks think they have a right to look into your bags because you are crossing a "border".
1866859;1540702662;mircea_popescu;"make every bag a diplomatic bag" sorta thing.
1866860;1540702692;mircea_popescu;"color their bits", the 2019 version of 1970s "grab 'em by the pussy."
1866861;1540702693;asciilifeform;e.g.
1866862;1540702781;mircea_popescu;all this will result in so much yadda, but anyway.
1866863;1540702921;asciilifeform;hmm?
1866864;1540702962;mircea_popescu;i have 0 expectation it will do anythingf besides create a lot of idle wank in "law enforcement" circles.
1866865;1540702997;asciilifeform;btw i'll add, nobody with half a brain would cross idjit ameri-border with device + card. 1 or the other at a time.
1866866;1540703027;asciilifeform;'sure look at this box' 'go ahead, feel free to anally insert this card'
1866867;1540703211;asciilifeform;( speaking here of proverbial, rather than the actual one, for some reason the actual border has ~0 interest in asciilifeform's cargo , to date, was almost disappointing. . 100x moar poking' and prodding' in orcistans this far, for asciilifeform  )
1866868;1540705598;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=67 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/22/2018
1866869;1540746311;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cuz they figure "you'll lead them to the terror cell" or some such nonsense.
1866870;1540746459;mircea_popescu;(yes, there is a do-not-disturb list, also, where they put people mostly for the above stated reason (it "wouldn't be fair" to put the inca elite on it, CORRUPTION!!!). as evidenced in these very logs, the process is just as trivially hackable as any other piece of imperial software -- asciilifeform gets the benefit of being a kronprinz without having as much as met this AllMother (and while bemoaning the whole time the unfai
1866871;1540746459;mircea_popescu;rness of life in general and etcetera). because hey, whynot.)
1866872;1540746495;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, dun even need to be kronprinz, you pay fiddibux or i fughet how much it was
1866873;1540746502;*;asciilifeform subscribed, worx, to date, a+++
1866874;1540746503;mircea_popescu;nope, not at all.
1866875;1540746536;mircea_popescu;this is the other one. just about the only way to get on it is to be a potential "embarassment" in the sense of, "we X are following this guy, why are you Y letting him know".
1866876;1540746547;asciilifeform;i can picture
1866877;1540746607;asciilifeform;( i was speaking of the lul where they give you a subscription that opens the no-customs door on the way back ~into~ reich )
1866878;1540746683;asciilifeform;( tho theoretically even these get occasional sonderbehandlung 'pour encourager les autres' )
1866879;1540746706;mircea_popescu;cuz the correlate of "french secret services accidentally sms terror suspect" is necessarily SOME KIND OF LIST. cuz that's how you build an empire, you make lists.
1866880;1540746838;asciilifeform;from what i can tell, their entire concept of 'terror suspect' is a hardcoded enumeration of largely accidental/stylistic features, e.g. 'bearded camel fucker', 'weev', 'loud activist'
1866881;1540746873;mircea_popescu;whole empire is a collection of superficialities. "car" is defined similarily.
1866882;1540746889;mircea_popescu;or "rapper" or "businessman" or whatever yo upick.
1866883;1540746983;mircea_popescu;women, right ? built themselves the femstate, magically don't understand why a) it dun work and b) nobody likes them still.
1866884;1540747035;asciilifeform;the concept of 'terror cell' that has 1-800 pnoje also, i suspect, throws the gears out of alignment. 'but where is the seekrit inner one, where they mix sarin', i expect, is the eternal itch.
1866885;1540747049;mircea_popescu;hey, let them grow tits come over.
1866886;1540747212;asciilifeform;'wtf, where is the plutonium in this suitcase, all derp has is buncha 1u's'
1866887;1540747226;mircea_popescu;no, no, it's still for the plutonium-sarin.
1866888;1540747237;mircea_popescu;see alf, your eternal "IT IS JUST A TRICK" works both ways lmao.
1866889;1540747301;asciilifeform;evidently
1866890;1540747465;asciilifeform;1 factor is that usa is mega-travel hub, so extensive derping with erry suitcase is impractical ( queue is slow enuff from the bush-era 'bright idea' of inspecting shoes ). reportedly in e.g. israel they try to do the 'copy erry disk' thing, there it is at least roughly practical in re traffic volume
1866891;1540747524;mircea_popescu;more power to 'em. i always carried rsa'd dumps.
1866892;1540747565;asciilifeform;e.g. the outer seals of the trunks with the 1u's, were popped, and the pieces helpfully taped to a 'this crate inspected for the motherland' receipt inside ( inner seals intact, lol )
1866893;1540747677;mircea_popescu;well yes, but security theatre is specifically there to give some spam fliers the appearance of a loftiness they do not merit.
1866894;1540747687;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a little tricky to ~boot~ from rsa dump, with bare hands, tho
1866895;1540747706;mircea_popescu;"oh, this piece of paper ? VERY!!!! different from what buskers/joefish/.whatever hand out. THIS ONE HANDED OUT BY BLUE USG!!! BIGGEST THING IN IMPORTANCE!"
1866896;1540747775;mircea_popescu;course, pointing out to them they all say the same thing... also throws wheels into gears or how did it went. as eminently evinced by http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/#selection-331.0-331.255 and such
1866897;1540747802;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they not simply 'say same thing', it's a form letter, not even rubber stamped but initial'd by some monkey
1866898;1540747817;asciilifeform;( unlike ye olde su, usg has a shortage of fancy rubber stamps , for some reason )
1866899;1540747820;mircea_popescu;"wait, what do you mean we're just another spammer vying for your attention with all the others ?!?! but we don't tape papers to trees, we tape them to luggage insides!!! GOTTA COUNT FOR SOMETHING!"
1866900;1540747841;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cuz emancipated nation of africa rubber producers ? nfi.
1866901;1540748016;asciilifeform;there is, for instance, an Official cap on benjies, iirc 10k. but nobody ever counted'em in any usg airport i've been to, for so long as they fit in wallet
1866902;1540748080;asciilifeform;or, say, woman's purse, nobody ever searches, they poke inside with a ceremonial stick.
1866903;1540748093;asciilifeform;or could go on, but there's too many of these and they aint particularly interesting to catalogue
1866904;1540748235;asciilifeform;the checkpoint queues are ~100% theatrical, when they want some d00d 'by name', typically pick him up at the check-in desk, long before he gets to the queue
1866905;1540748306;asciilifeform;( on rare occasions -- in airplane just prior to take-off, it makes for convenient ad-hoc jail )
1866906;1540756787;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/alt-twitter-gab-loses-kicked-off-hosting-services/ << Qntra - Alt-Twitter Gab Loses Kicked Off Hosting Services
1866907;1540756853;asciilifeform;lol!
1866908;1540756949;*;asciilifeform wishes the derps a smooth trip into the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756992 rubbish bin
1866909;1540756949;a111;Logged on 2017-12-22 17:18 weevlos: trinque: we are a media publication. our power and capital comes from the number of visitors we have to the site. we aim to transform through culture. if normal people cannot visit our site we are not accomplishing our goal
1866910;1540757723;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/ibm-buying-red-hat/ << Qntra - IBM Buying Red Hat
1866911;1540757762;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Weev and Anglin are still scraping by as best as they can https://dailystormer.name/rabbi-at-tree-of-life-cut-a-jew-babys-penis-off-in-2013/
1866912;1540757768;asciilifeform;usg.dept-of-kompyooting unification chugging along, eh
1866913;1540757792;asciilifeform;reminiscent of banks in the '08 times
1866914;1540757826;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, except for manufactering, because Obama said you can't do that in US-istan. Hence Lenovo getting IBMThink and Global Foundries getting all of IBM's fab work
1866915;1540757830;asciilifeform;all that remains is for ibm to merge with microshit-oogle
1866916;1540757906;BingoBoingo;Nah, they have to pick one of the two per Coke/Pepsi theorem
1866917;1540757934;asciilifeform;i suspect that they can no longer afford the 'luxury' of pepsi.
1866918;1540757935;BingoBoingo;Microshit, Googlag, or Manzana
1866919;1540757937;asciilifeform;not for long, anyway
1866920;1540758353;BingoBoingo;Anyways, if Gab somes knocking, I will try to get a price for them. Considering they were hosted on MS Azure for a long time, it is hard to tell if they can fit at any price or if their all comers deal makes them dependent on cheap Fort Mead bandwidth
1866921;1540758545;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i have difficulty picturing the derps actually ponying up the coin to cover the not-insignificant cost of housing their rezistenta prin cultura idjitmagnet. but whoknows.
1866922;1540758677;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I do have difficulty with that as well. Anyways people, no platforms.
1866923;1540758684;BingoBoingo;*people not platforms
1866924;1540758800;BingoBoingo;You can WoT evaluate people. Hard to do that to a toilet full of cops.
1866925;1540769263;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-28#1866904 << cuz all the "picking up" left available is by name only ; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795382 extends, extends.
1866926;1540769263;a111;Logged on 2018-10-28 17:37 asciilifeform: the checkpoint queues are ~100% theatrical, when they want some d00d 'by name', typically pick him up at the check-in desk, long before he gets to the queue
1866927;1540769263;a111;Logged on 2018-04-10 03:06 mircea_popescu: eh. the quality of police work has so terribly degraded in the past half century, if anyone does ANY PLANNING AT ALL it's a murder that'll never get solved.
1866928;1540770013;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have a serious wtf re serpent, and neither the s.mg/classic ada, nor the orig paper, has helped me to make sense of it, and i'm suspecting that i'm thick... so here it is:
1866929;1540770051;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=68 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/23/2018
1866930;1540770051;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/jair-bolsonaro-now-president-elect-of-brasil/ << Qntra - Jair Bolsonaro Now President Elect Of Brasil
1866931;1540770104;asciilifeform;observe, in the key scheduler,
1866932;1540770140;asciilifeform;for I in 0..131 loop  W(I) := Rotate_Left(W(I-8) xor W(I-5) xor W(I-3) xor W(I-1) xor 16#9e3779b9# xor Unsigned_32(I), 11); end loop;
1866933;1540770170;asciilifeform;or hrm, nm, i'm thick, after all
1866934;1540770202;asciilifeform;( was about to ask 'so does it actually use the other 4 32b words..' then it clicked )
1866935;1540770243;asciilifeform;so nm.
1866936;1540770318;asciilifeform;i still dun grasp why the fuck the author used this adhocism, with 1way propagation, rather than an actual hash (and 'because all other blockciphers did' is not an answer.. )
1866937;1540770396;asciilifeform;iirc diana_coman asked a similar q, but cant currently turn up the thrd
1866938;1540770528;asciilifeform;for that matter, why not let user give the full 528bytes (132 x 32b) of key material, why this whitening is hardwired in.
1866939;1540770577;asciilifeform;( anyone who considers 528byte an excessive key, can use e.g. keccak as expanded, instead of the 1970s strange , neh )
1866940;1540770585;asciilifeform;*expander
1866941;1540770630;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, diana_coman , el al -- what am i missing ?
1866942;1540770636;asciilifeform;*et al
1866943;1540770681;asciilifeform;what's the win from the not-really-hash 'key schedule' thing?
1866944;1540770860;asciilifeform;so then i go an' reread the paper, and whole thing is in this style. 'oh i picked the sboxes based on shuffling des's and rejecting the variants that keep bits in position toomuch' but where IS this scratch work posted?? apparently nowhere.. )
1866945;1540770947;asciilifeform;motherfucking academitards.
1866946;1540771016;asciilifeform;'oh posting intermediate calcs Would Be Wrong (tm), some scum could find out that we're fulla shit', or is there some other plausible hypothesis here..?
1866947;1540771176;BingoBoingo;President's Book of Secrets for President's eyes only?
1866948;1540771394;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: thing was never usg.adopted, was 90% of its orig appeal
1866949;1540771475;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's a quote from a piece of children's literature. Sub "President" for "Man ritualistically staying alone"
1866950;1540771532;asciilifeform;lol
1866951;1540771618;*;BingoBoingo working on a piece covering republican research and doctrine on censorship resistance as of 2018 to throw on the blognotebook, to inform Pizarro marketing.
1866952;1540771645;asciilifeform;https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/serpent.pdf ( pdfturd! ) << near as i can tell, is the 'full paper' referred to in the 'short'
1866953;1540771683;asciilifeform;and it claims a specific process that supposedly produced the sboxes, but gives only pseudocode with a handwave ' if has desired properties, then keep sbox ' turd
1866954;1540771900;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: potentially interesting, but i suspect that it wont do much for the idjit heathens , who dun grasp even most basic step of hygiene , i.e. letting go of dnsism
1866955;1540771980;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's not for heathens. It's for me and whoever else reads to repackage for heathens.
1866956;1540771982;asciilifeform;as if it could possibly matter where you host sumthing if 'customer has come to expect' weev.com as the only way in
1866957;1540771990;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: aite then
1866958;1540772235;asciilifeform;'... it was an- alyzed by programs we developed for investigating block ciphers, and we found bounds on the probabilities of the differential and linear characteristics. These bounds show that this choice suits our needs.' << spoiler: also posted nowhere...
1866959;1540772237;BingoBoingo;Like other Republic pursuits we have experience, practice, and doctrine in the logs but like other things (v state of the art) it could benefit from collection
1866960;1540773700;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i have nfi why ANY of those!
1866961;1540773734;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i looked over notes from the 1st time i read the thing, and had same reaction then ! but then, left with 'maybe i find why'. 3y later, not found why !
1866962;1540773754;mircea_popescu;ours is not to find out why.
1866963;1540773822;asciilifeform;at this point i strongly suspect that there ~isn't~ a 'why', author pulled thing out of his arse like the others.
1866964;1540773850;mircea_popescu;anyway, the likely reason they don't publish scratchwork is that before republic, nobody had any fucking idea how to do intellectual work. q is a lot like asking "why would doctors not wash hands". because before someone told them to, they didn't, that's why.
1866965;1540773963;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1866966;1540773969;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo that's a good idea incidentally. lotta stuff we invented last tuesday and in the brief interval became seemingly "older than dirt" / "in kindergarten!!!" is in fact entirely unheard of outside the walls.
1866967;1540774070;BingoBoingo;It is an issue I am concretely running into
1866968;1540774156;BingoBoingo;We've documented our victories well, but when explaining to heathens why, collections of log links where the path to victory happens and is discussed often don't quite do it on their own
1866969;1540775321;BingoBoingo;And after Kirchner in Argentina, Bolnasaro in Brasil... The Uruguayos on Reddit think planes surely can not be rockets: http://archive.is/dSdho
1866970;1540777294;mircea_popescu;right.
1866971;1540777596;mircea_popescu;moreover, heathens are generally completely bereft of any kind of thought process. by way of example : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WXFOP/?raw=true
1866972;1540779440;BingoBoingo;!!rate nicooleci 2 Mircea's chattle, summarizer in training, Outside the Wire
1866973;1540779440;deedbot;nicooleci is not registered in WoT.
1866974;1540779453;BingoBoingo;!!rate nicoleci 2 Mircea's chattle, summarizer in training, Outside the Wire
1866975;1540779456;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZuzlP/?raw=true
1866976;1540779493;BingoBoingo;!!v FE4479BA4353DE8C614A7112895F7D418CD6C2111FA664BB81648676A6C5B540
1866977;1540779493;deedbot;BingoBoingo rated nicoleci 2 << Mircea's chattle, summarizer in training, Outside the Wire
1866978;1540780428;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1866964 << specifically in the context of the 'crypto contest' where serpent was trotted out, there was a loud and pompous 'here's ciphers, with jusfifications!' circus. so imho the excuse of 'not knew to wash hands yet' is not available
1866979;1540780428;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 00:44 mircea_popescu: anyway, the likely reason they don't publish scratchwork is that before republic, nobody had any fucking idea how to do intellectual work. q is a lot like asking "why would doctors not wash hands". because before someone told them to, they didn't, that's why.
1866980;1540782189;mircea_popescu;hey, people cca 1400 made big deal of "purity" as well.
1866981;1540782216;mircea_popescu;using the words is worth nothing ; if not used by a lord they're powerless.
1866982;1540782482;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in sneak previews, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bmF1K/?raw=true
1866983;1540782561;asciilifeform;^ summary of serial i/o processor thing asciilifeform baked. will be applicable even if we come up with sumthing less sad than serpent, in fyootoor.
1866984;1540783121;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: somewhat related observation: designers of blockciphers are fixated on 'what if known plaintext block', but it is not clear to me why this has to be a living problem when you can fill up 1/4 or 1/2 or whatever of block with rng
1866985;1540783171;asciilifeform;( if storage/bandwidth are cheap, potentially could stuff all but 1 byte, or even bit, with rngolade, if you like )
1866986;1540783207;asciilifeform;it also handily disposes of the penguin.
1866987;1540783226;asciilifeform;( without requiring blocks to contain serial #s or anything of the kind )
1866988;1540783253;asciilifeform;sorta like what people already do re rsa.
1866989;1540783303;asciilifeform;and yes it means that rng bitrate will constrain write speed. but it aint as if this is not solvable problem.
1866990;1540783392;asciilifeform;one possible handy algo for the degenerate case of '1 bit of payload per block' -- your block is ~wholesale~ rngolade, and you simply flip the last bit so xor(b0,b1,...,bN) equals your desired payload bit.
1866991;1540783423;asciilifeform;this solves (if you will) asciilifeform's ancient puzzler, 'how to avoid any part of block being known plaintext'
1866992;1540783592;asciilifeform;nao, exercise for the reader : find the bandwidth of this channel ( how many bits , if more than one, can be stuffed into a block and still preserve this property ) ...
1866993;1540787831;mircea_popescu;i dunno i like "block" to begin with.
1866994;1540789348;asciilifeform;hm?
1866995;1540789630;asciilifeform;relatedly, asciilifeform tried to bake a proof that the lamehash keyinflater function of serpent is one-to-one ( i.e. actually carries 256bit of the key register's entropy into the 528 bytes of whiteolade ) and not only didnt , but realized that afaik no such proof exists for any 'troo' hash also ( incl keccak.. )
1866996;1540789678;asciilifeform;mebbe i'm thick and it's a trivial provable ? ( diana_coman ? mircea_popescu
1866997;1540789689;asciilifeform;? know a proof? )
1866998;1540789830;mircea_popescu;i'm not aware such a thing was ever proven.
1866999;1540789900;asciilifeform;ikr?
1867000;1540790144;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1867001;1540790353;asciilifeform;actually, funnily enuff , i nao see a proof for serpent's, but not keccak
1867002;1540790388;asciilifeform;( in serpent inflator, the only ops are xor, rotate, and sboxation, all 3 conserve entropy )
1867003;1540793736;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this isn't much of an argument, let alone "proof". + and * also conserve entropy, yet y=x/2 - x/2 +4 does not.
1867004;1540794137;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=69 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/24/2018
1867005;1540795504;Mocky;or a more direct counter argument: A xor A = 0
1867006;1540796010;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1866992 >> using a variation this algo you can stuff a block half full of bits without any 2 consecutive bits being from a known plaintext, while the accumulating xor prevents the penguin
1867007;1540796010;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 03:26 asciilifeform: nao, exercise for the reader : find the bandwidth of this channel ( how many bits , if more than one, can be stuffed into a block and still preserve this property ) ...
1867008;1540798915;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no proof that I'm aware of, as per earlier http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/11/22/taming-of-the-serpent-in-ada/#selection-49.0-49.393
1867009;1540815865;asciilifeform;diana_coman: aha
1867010;1540815883;asciilifeform;Mocky_: yea , calls for an actual proof..
1867011;1540820089;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in other lulz, https://archive.is/plVal << trivial local-privesc in xorg ( introduced by shitgnomes in '16 )
1867012;1540825269;mircea_popescu;Mocky_ yeah but i wanted to drive the point home.
1867013;1540825310;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not only were you right, but i just about have a handle on deriving the factual key bitness of serpent..
1867014;1540825327;mircea_popescu;and it's almost 2/3 ?
1867015;1540825340;asciilifeform;i'ma refrain from pons&fleischmanning this one..
1867016;1540825399;asciilifeform;( for anybody who wants to take a stab at this in parallel with asciilifeform , hint : xor-with-constant is injective , can be factored out of equation; ditto sboxes )
1867017;1540827633;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 1/3
1867018;1540827665;asciilifeform;i.e. 85-bit strength, possibly smaller ( i haven't algebraicized the entire recurrence yet )
1867019;1540827690;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/germany-merkel-plots-her-exit/ << Qntra - Germany: Merkel Plots Her Exit
1867020;1540827829;asciilifeform;logic : take the key inflator http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.13060-87.13306 ;
1867021;1540827892;asciilifeform;let the key words (32bit ea.) be A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H. so W(-8)=A, W(-7)=B, W(-6)=C, W(-5)=D, W(-4)=E, W(-3)=F, W(-2)=G, W(-1)=H ;
1867022;1540827949;asciilifeform;now we factor out the   ... xor 16#9e3779b9# xor Unsigned_32(I),  it's an injective operation (neither adds nor subtracts entropy) ;
1867023;1540827981;asciilifeform;ditto the s-boxes (they are reversible, merely permute)
1867024;1540827993;mircea_popescu;i'm not so persuaded by this latest bit.
1867025;1540828001;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they're reversible !
1867026;1540828019;asciilifeform;i.e. have exactly same number of possible outputs as there are inputs
1867027;1540828024;asciilifeform;thinkaboutit, then we'll proceed
1867028;1540828041;asciilifeform;( if sboxes were'nt reversible, deciphering wouldn't work )
1867029;1540828059;mircea_popescu;that they are reversible is tru!
1867030;1540828075;asciilifeform;therefore the inputs:outputs are 1:1 .
1867031;1540828077;mircea_popescu;and in point of fact reversed as the thing works.
1867032;1540828081;asciilifeform;correct
1867033;1540828087;asciilifeform;how else could it work.
1867034;1540828134;asciilifeform;and the two xor's-with-constants, just the same reversible.
1867035;1540828137;mircea_popescu;consider the sets P {1,2,3,4} and E {1,2,3,4,5}. now, the function taking all numbers <4 to themselvews and 4 to either 4 or 5 with 50-50 probability IS in fact reversible
1867036;1540828144;asciilifeform;thereby do not affect the quantity we are seeking.
1867037;1540828145;mircea_popescu;is however not in fact entropy conserving
1867038;1540828168;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if it has a random component, it aint reversible, how wouldja reverse it ? with time machine ?
1867039;1540828183;asciilifeform;gimme an inverse for it, we can go to vegas
1867040;1540828184;mircea_popescu;i can reverse it, cuz P4 or P5 are E4 so i need to now nothing.
1867041;1540828231;mircea_popescu;know*
1867042;1540828255;asciilifeform;i dun get it, what's P5 ?
1867043;1540828277;mircea_popescu;the 5th element of P set.
1867044;1540828286;mircea_popescu;a fuck i did it backlwards
1867045;1540828291;mircea_popescu;E4 and E5 are both P4.
1867046;1540828299;asciilifeform;whole thing plox ?
1867047;1540828325;mircea_popescu;consider the sets P {1,2,3,4} and E {1,2,3,4,5}. now, the function taking all numbers <4 to themselvews and 4 to either 4 or 5 with 50-50 probability IS in fact reversible (because E5 and E4 are directly P4). is however not in fact entropy conserving.
1867048;1540828397;mircea_popescu;it is entropy* conserving, where entropy* is a special "entropy-colored-for-meaning", but this isn't useful.
1867049;1540828429;asciilifeform;let's try this. so i throw in {1,2,3,4,5} and the rng cranks and i get a {1,2,3,5,5}, then i put it back and rng cranks again and i get a {1,2,3,4,4}, with nonzero probability. so i reversed ??
1867050;1540828452;mircea_popescu;can't throw in 5. the P set is 1,2,3,4.
1867051;1540828460;asciilifeform;( not even speaking of fact that this aint a function of the inputs, in the civilized sense, it is a function of input and rng )
1867052;1540828480;mircea_popescu;i agree this is uncivilised.
1867053;1540828484;asciilifeform;then it aint reversible if it can't turn the 5 back into a 4
1867054;1540828490;asciilifeform;what am i missing
1867055;1540828493;mircea_popescu;the problem with one's preoblems is that they rarely have the decency.
1867056;1540828505;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what 5 ?
1867057;1540828525;asciilifeform;well i put in {1,2,3,4} and out came {1,2,3,5}.
1867058;1540828528;asciilifeform;now i want reverse.
1867059;1540828542;mircea_popescu;and the reverse is 1,2,3,4.
1867060;1540828558;asciilifeform;but what function gives it to be with prob=1 ?
1867061;1540828562;mircea_popescu;cuz E4, E5 are the indistinct sysnonyms of P4.
1867062;1540828577;mircea_popescu;the function which takes all numbers <4 to themselves and all numbers >4 to 4.
1867063;1540828646;asciilifeform;by this token there exists inverse keccak, consisting of a list of values which when xor'd with any given one, produces original.
1867064;1540828656;mircea_popescu;i agreed it is not civilised!
1867065;1540828659;mircea_popescu;what do you want me to do ?
1867066;1540828662;asciilifeform;this is trivially true but is not what we want when asking 'can haz reverse keccak'
1867067;1540828679;mircea_popescu;i have problems with statements.
1867068;1540828683;asciilifeform;lol
1867069;1540828683;mircea_popescu;it's what i do for a living.
1867070;1540828792;asciilifeform;with the tools in the actual box, however, afaik there is no headache of this kind, xor-with-constant is reversible and conserves.
1867071;1540828809;asciilifeform;there are exactly as many possible outputs as inputs, and if you xor with the constant again, you get the input back.
1867072;1540829032;asciilifeform;so, continuing: we throw out the constants, and:
1867073;1540829043;asciilifeform;W(0) = RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))
1867074;1540829049;asciilifeform;W(1) = RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))
1867075;1540829057;asciilifeform;W(2) = RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))
1867076;1540829064;asciilifeform;W(3) = 3,RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))))
1867077;1540829076;asciilifeform;grrrrr
1867078;1540829082;asciilifeform;W(3) = RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))))
1867079;1540829092;asciilifeform;W(4) = RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))))))
1867080;1540829100;asciilifeform;W(5) = RLeft11(xor(f,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))),RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))))))))
1867081;1540829105;asciilifeform;W(6) = RLeft11(xor(g,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))))),RLeft11(xor(f,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))),RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))))))))))
1867082;1540829115;asciilifeform;W(7) = RLeft11(xor(h,RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))),RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))))))),RLeft11(xor(g,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))))),RLeft11(xor(f,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)
1867083;1540829115;asciilifeform;),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))),RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))))))))))))
1867084;1540829132;asciilifeform;but after this, it chews the cud, e.g. W(8) = RLeft11(xor(RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))))),RLeft11(xor(f,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))),RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h))))))
1867085;1540829132;asciilifeform;)))))),RLeft11(xor(h,RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))),RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))))))),RLeft11(xor(g,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))))),RLeft11(xor(f,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)
1867086;1540829133;asciilifeform;),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))),RLeft11(xor(e,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))),RLeft11(xor(d,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)),RLeft11(xor(c,f,h,RLeft11(xor(b,e,g,RLeft11(xor(a,d,f,h)))))))))))))))))) , and we can ignore these
1867087;1540829143;asciilifeform;apologies for the log clutter, but this imho belongs in the l0gz
1867088;1540829184;asciilifeform;nao, is it a controversial statement that xors with an item that's already been rolled in, can only ~subtract~ entropy, never add ?
1867089;1540829197;asciilifeform;regardless of how rotated.
1867090;1540829530;asciilifeform;anything that appears on the right-hand side of one of those xor's, can potentially cancel itself out...
1867091;1540829936;asciilifeform;so! for instance ! if a, d, f, h are such that xor(a,d,f,h) = 0, then term a no longer appears in the equation at all !
1867092;1540829960;asciilifeform;so all possible inputs where this holds , result in the same inflated-key.
1867093;1540830006;mod6;holy moly
1867094;1540830011;asciilifeform;bahahaha
1867095;1540830042;asciilifeform;'cipher contest' my shiny metal arse...
1867096;1540830382;asciilifeform;if xor(b,e,g) = 0, then term b no longer appears in equation...
1867097;1540830408;mircea_popescu;heh.
1867098;1540830419;asciilifeform;if xor(c,f,h) = 0 -- then c...
1867099;1540830421;asciilifeform;and so on.
1867100;1540830469;asciilifeform;at this point i strongly suspect that the actual bitness, is 64 OR SMALLER
1867101;1540830473;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the objection you had, you know, "this is trivially true but is not what we want" goes very much to the core of the issue -- cryptographic notions of strength are very hard to meaningfully describe mathematically because htey're always "obviously this has ONE trivial solution, but does it have more than the one ?!" math deals in 0 and 1s, it's ill equipped to deal with this batshit nonsense.
1867102;1540830493;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it dun even seem like we need exotica here
1867103;1540830523;mircea_popescu;right. anyway, back to the practicals -- are sbox outputs ~equiprobable~ ?
1867104;1540830527;asciilifeform;the actual bitness of serpent , seems like, is so small as to be iterable on pc.
1867105;1540830546;mircea_popescu;because if not, then VERY likely what we're seeing is a subclass of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867048
1867106;1540830546;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 15:53 mircea_popescu: it is entropy* conserving, where entropy* is a special "entropy-colored-for-meaning", but this isn't useful.
1867107;1540830548;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what would mean 'equiprobable' ? they're a 1:1 mapping
1867108;1540830563;mircea_popescu;yes 1:1 by count. but by occurence ?
1867109;1540830569;asciilifeform;you put in 000..., you always get same thing, you put in 111... you get another distinct thing, ditto, and so on
1867110;1540830581;asciilifeform;see e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2627
1867111;1540830596;asciilifeform;they're caesar's cipher.
1867112;1540830608;asciilifeform;alphabet-a -> alphabet-b.
1867113;1540830620;mircea_popescu;right.
1867114;1540830638;asciilifeform;or, if you like, enigma rotors.
1867115;1540830658;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867088 << not controversial. can substract, though doesn't necessarily have to ; can never add.
1867116;1540830658;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 16:06 asciilifeform: nao, is it a controversial statement that xors with an item that's already been rolled in, can only ~subtract~ entropy, never add ?
1867117;1540830665;asciilifeform;right
1867118;1540830687;asciilifeform;for our purposes, that means 'they subtract'.
1867119;1540830894;asciilifeform;thus far, afaik, we already know that there aint 2**256 possible 528-byte serpent expandedkeys. nor 2**128. and as i currently suspect, not even 2**64 .
1867120;1540830939;asciilifeform;and for some reason this took 20yrs ?! to get out...
1867121;1540831016;mircea_popescu;the reason being that it wasn't gonna move till i baked it in some pie.
1867122;1540831025;mircea_popescu;which finally got some attention from ppls.
1867123;1540831063;asciilifeform;hey, it didn't click in asciilifeform's head either until asciilifeform went to fpgaize it..
1867124;1540831079;asciilifeform;'notation is worth +80 iq' or how did it go.
1867125;1540831113;mircea_popescu;right.
1867126;1540831200;asciilifeform;it also suggests a very different picture, vs the one i previously supposed, re why it didn't win the tourney. ( rather than washington:'omfg too strong', rather went 'omfg our academi.flunkies kissing arse so hard they cant breathe' )
1867127;1540831263;asciilifeform;entirely possible also that the 'lost despite most votes' thing was engineered stunt.
1867128;1540831271;asciilifeform;i gotta take off my hat to whoever cooked that up.
1867129;1540831271;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform consider also that if a, b, c, d, e, f are rng words, then (P xor a) xor b) etc does not in fact substract anything.
1867130;1540831295;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: yer xoring overlapped copies, remember
1867131;1540831299;asciilifeform;rotleft-11
1867132;1540831302;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform likely explanation being "whisperer", ie, technical quimby sinking it behind the doors because "it's fucking stupid".
1867133;1540831310;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cuz it ~is~
1867134;1540831320;asciilifeform;i feel pretty stupid, tbh, for not noticing in '16
1867135;1540831334;asciilifeform;quimby must have died of laughter by nao
1867136;1540831339;asciilifeform;'omfg they bought it'
1867137;1540831393;mircea_popescu;bitter days of http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-123804
1867138;1540831397;asciilifeform;relatedly, for shits & giggles asciilifeform has been reading a 'digital evidence' law school textbook, for entomological/ameritardological studies, and it goes out of its way to mention 'serpent sank an fbi case'
1867139;1540831406;asciilifeform;b00k circa 2007 iirc
1867140;1540831480;asciilifeform;i suspect that the thing was a mine planted specifically, if you will, for tmsr.
1867141;1540831698;asciilifeform;i can't speak for other folx, but i'ma have to repeat h. hughes, 'fly in it? i wouldn't walk under it'
1867142;1540831699;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/godaddy-does-it-again-taking-domain-name-in-response-to-media-pressure/ << Qntra - GoDaddy Does It Again: Taking Domain Name In Response To Media Pressure
1867143;1540831892;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: mebbe give it a week, whoknows, somebody turns up a mistake in asciilifeform's maffs. then can qntra...
1867144;1540831945;asciilifeform;a proggy that takes a 256b key and shits out its 4+ sister-keys, prolly wouldnt hurt, either; if somebody can be arsed to write.
1867145;1540831987;asciilifeform;( dun forget to acct for the constants )
1867146;1540832005;mircea_popescu;suppose... you actually do that ?
1867147;1540832019;asciilifeform;i will, eventually, if nobody else can be arsed
1867148;1540832102;asciilifeform;washington can pay for its own auto-pill fpga, if they want one tho, i dun see why to do this work for them.
1867149;1540832138;mircea_popescu;so far, we're still ~in the same position as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866400 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866449
1867150;1540832138;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 16:48 mircea_popescu: i am experimenting with serpent, and yes it's borne of that ancient discussion of ours, but i'm nowhere near-ready to bake it into "this is tmsr secure disk"
1867151;1540832138;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 17:04 mircea_popescu: in short, because this winding discussion risks overwhelming buffers, the salient points are a) that i'm not ready to go to war over serpent, it's a meh-maybe item ; b) that building our spearheads around items we're not willing to die for may be how the converse of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoin+corrupts altogether.
1867152;1540832143;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: If your math stands the week, you may be the best qualified to do the qntra on it
1867153;1540832212;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand not; we're at http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866454 .
1867154;1540832212;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 17:05 mircea_popescu: yeah but suppose some bright kid walks into here one day with that item we all suspect is under a rock somewhere
1867155;1540832256;mircea_popescu;aha!
1867156;1540832260;mircea_popescu;he GOTTA WALK WITH IT THO
1867157;1540832266;asciilifeform;you dun need 'acres of crays' to walk 2**64 or however many, troo-keyz.
1867158;1540832287;mircea_popescu;the issue is that ~however many~.
1867159;1540832307;mircea_popescu;bright kid walks in with a convincing story as to how he's gonna walk in with item != bright kid walks into here one day with that item.
1867160;1540832310;asciilifeform;what bitness wouldja live with ?
1867161;1540832334;mircea_popescu;the court will only consider positive cases.
1867162;1540832346;asciilifeform;aite
1867163;1540832360;asciilifeform;i do suggest to look for a spare tyre, tho, this one's hissing air.
1867164;1540832376;mircea_popescu;seems like it.
1867165;1540832402;asciilifeform;whether asciilifeform takes month, week, or day, to cough up pill
1867166;1540832413;asciilifeform;( i certainly didn't expect ~this~ 3days in... )
1867167;1540832699;asciilifeform;hilariously, i have a tall pile of academiliquishit re serpent right here on desk, and it ALL without exception dwells on the sboxes & lineartransform, 0 discussion of key schedule.
1867168;1540832776;asciilifeform;btw i seem to recall that the original mircea_popescu & diana_coman thread where 'let's try serpent' turned up that the current 'paper' is not in fact the original, and the orig has evaporated. nao gotta wonder what was in it.
1867169;1540832859;asciilifeform;( i'd walk over to uni to try an' dig it up, but then remembered that they abolished the paper-papers archive for 'electronic' lulz )
1867170;1540833426;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes re original - I could not source it and no idea why
1867171;1540834277;asciilifeform;diana_coman: that's exactly what i remembered.
1867172;1540834303;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'm still boggled re the sheer wtf of it all.
1867173;1540834365;asciilifeform;for lulz, would be interesting to dig up the list of 'luminaries' who voted for serpent. ( last i recall, it was public )
1867174;1540834370;diana_coman;I'm re-reading here with pen and paper
1867175;1540834388;asciilifeform;aite, won't distract then
1867176;1540834522;diana_coman;I can cite though from the 2000 paper (or apparently 2000...): "Since then we have sought to strengthen the algorithm and improve its performance. As a result, we have selected new, stornger, S-boxes and changed the key schedule slightly."
1867177;1540834539;asciilifeform;yaya i have both papers here
1867178;1540834550;asciilifeform;( no hard dating for either , tho )
1867179;1540836262;asciilifeform;diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/94fgv/?raw=true << the raw emacs-sewed recurrence equations, if it helps
1867180;1540836270;asciilifeform;diana_coman: can substitute with search-and-replace
1867181;1540836290;asciilifeform;( they're broken up in the log, so possibly this is handier )
1867182;1540837575;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2018/so-i-designed-a-block-chipher/
1867183;1540837587;*;asciilifeform reads..
1867184;1540837596;mircea_popescu;i'd have said more, but the editor showed wordcount 777, and i deem this a very good omen re cipher quality.
1867185;1540837610;asciilifeform;lol
1867186;1540837708;asciilifeform;lol you almost got me, i half-expected the piece to be about a block cipher
1867187;1540837717;mircea_popescu;isn't it ?!
1867188;1540837727;asciilifeform;haha, after a fashion.
1867189;1540837735;mircea_popescu;didja read that whole thing
1867190;1540837759;asciilifeform;i did
1867191;1540837769;mircea_popescu;ow shit, i mystypoed in the title, wtf is a "chipher".
1867192;1540837776;asciilifeform;it's about xor, in the specific style used in winblowz shitware to hide strings from av.
1867193;1540837792;asciilifeform;i deciphered these with perl script, for a living, for yrs.
1867194;1540837810;mircea_popescu;are you saying this is weak ?
1867195;1540837818;asciilifeform;define weak!111
1867196;1540837823;mircea_popescu;weaker than serpent.
1867197;1540837831;asciilifeform;slightly, lol
1867198;1540837837;mircea_popescu;show me!
1867199;1540837863;asciilifeform;it's multiply-run otp, wat.
1867200;1540837884;asciilifeform;shannon already showed how to break, it's in the kindergarden text
1867201;1540837884;mircea_popescu;do you mind ?
1867202;1540837903;asciilifeform;sure, wainot , after tea
1867203;1540837920;asciilifeform;pretty tired from curing serpent.
1867204;1540837928;mircea_popescu;works.
1867205;1540838115;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: meanwhile plz be so kind as to say how to decipher.
1867206;1540838121;asciilifeform;( having, that is, the key )
1867207;1540838608;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/so-i-designed-a-block-chipher/ << Trilema - So I designed a block chipher.
1867208;1540838816;mircea_popescu;same procedure, xor the Pmessage as per key.
1867209;1540838956;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: your offsetting rotates (as e.g. ram on z80) or truncates? ( when message is shifted beyond the buffer bound ) ?
1867210;1540838964;mircea_popescu;rotates, it's a ring buffer.
1867211;1540838970;asciilifeform;ok
1867212;1540839086;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform like it or not, this is the ur-blockchipher. ALL OTHERS, not only casually but NECESSARILY, are mini-clipped versions of this. "competition or no competition", if it got shitboxes it's this and naught else.
1867213;1540839093;mircea_popescu;and yes, you've inspired me.
1867214;1540839134;mircea_popescu;and no, "we have pre-padded ring buffers with THIS particular message that's worth hardwiring because it's ever so magical" ain't a reasoning.
1867215;1540840931;diana_coman;asciilifeform, that helps, thank you! I had to take break and I'm slow on this sort of things so it'll take a while until I get to say anything
1867216;1540841507;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gWzx9/?raw=true , satisfy yerself that it dun reverse
1867217;1540841581;asciilifeform;e.g. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/K6AYY/?raw=true
1867218;1540841603;asciilifeform;^ bits are printed in ascending majority, left to right
1867219;1540841647;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'write-only memory'
1867220;1540841800;asciilifeform;and before you ask, variant where either key or msg can be longer, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AQPnG/?raw=true , and transpose msg and key for reverse, dun reverse either.
1867221;1540841855;asciilifeform;it's a crosscut-shredder, not a ciphrator..
1867222;1540841997;asciilifeform;pretty handy proof , however, that the xor liquishit on the right hand side of those serpent eqs, doesn't conserve entropy !
1867223;1540842023;mircea_popescu;HA.
1867224;1540842044;asciilifeform;see, you win phree toy, from this arcade.
1867225;1540842046;mircea_popescu;"our block cipher has to have backdoor because we built a paper shredder and well..."
1867226;1540842068;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is so much better than having to correct the title.
1867227;1540842073;asciilifeform;ahahayes
1867228;1540842102;*;asciilifeform hoses down vivisection table
1867229;1540842112;mircea_popescu;this has been a very fun morning.
1867230;1540842120;asciilifeform;verily
1867231;1540842136;mircea_popescu;now tell me, "why can't tv be more entertaining".
1867232;1540842166;asciilifeform;nao y'know wai asciilifeform dun have a tv..
1867233;1540844796;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867215 << dun feel sad, serpent had to hang on asciilifeform's wall for 2yrs before this.
1867234;1540844796;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 19:22 diana_coman: asciilifeform, that helps, thank you! I had to take break and I'm slow on this sort of things so it'll take a while until I get to say anything
1867235;1540845454;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform check this out : as per the "chipher", let there be a plaintext P of n bits ; and a key K of k bits. given a ciphertext E of n bits, it is a fact that any one bit of P is the result of xoring of up to k bits of P. if you know K you know ~which ones~, and as you have E you know ~what they must xor to~. this results in a message-wide system of k equations which is determinate.
1867236;1540845481;mircea_popescu;(provided of course k>=n, which yes, it's a block cipher)
1867237;1540845668;asciilifeform;i suspect i'ma need some strong чифир for this chipher
1867238;1540845747;asciilifeform;'any one bit of P is the result of xoring of up to k bits of P' << y'mean 'any one bit of E' ?
1867239;1540845757;mircea_popescu;well, we're trying to get P back right.
1867240;1540845769;asciilifeform;well yes, presumably from E ?
1867241;1540845773;asciilifeform;or else from what.
1867242;1540845796;mircea_popescu;P[n] = K[0]*P[a] x K[1] * P[b] x ...
1867243;1540845808;mircea_popescu;E is just what these equal to, see.
1867244;1540845825;mircea_popescu;damn.
1867245;1540845830;asciilifeform;aaha
1867246;1540845832;mircea_popescu;E[i] = K[0]*P[a] x K[1] * P[b] x ...
1867247;1540845859;mircea_popescu;so this is, in fact, a system of (here) 512 xor-equations, with ak nown result (e[x]) and a known parameter matrix (K)
1867248;1540845907;mircea_popescu;as long as P doesn't have more bits than K, this is a determinate system.
1867249;1540845970;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uX1BM/?raw=true << for convenience, the recurrence eqs rewritten 1) as sexpr 2) with the orig constant-xors included
1867250;1540845989;asciilifeform;( define RL11 as 'rotate left by 11 bits inside 32bit reg' )
1867251;1540846018;asciilifeform;grr, loox like i munged it, 1s, will fix
1867252;1540846119;asciilifeform;diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kH2Av/?raw=true << proper.
1867253;1540846143;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: feel free to bake this by curing the little proggy pasted earlier
1867254;1540846282;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: seems to me that ~now~ you correctly defined... the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867192 cipher.
1867255;1540846282;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 18:29 asciilifeform: it's about xor, in the specific style used in winblowz shitware to hide strings from av.
1867256;1540846394;asciilifeform;( and if mircea_popescu's point was that ~all~ present-day 'block ciphers' are reducible to some variant of it -- the point is made )
1867257;1540846533;asciilifeform;!#s maslennikov
1867258;1540846533;a111;22 results for "maslennikov", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=maslennikov
1867259;1540846568;asciilifeform;the basic boojum is that it aint a cipher of any kind, and the ubiquitous sbox derpery is simply squid ink to obscure this. maslennikov details how he pointed this out to 1980s kgb and got sacked.
1867260;1540846601;asciilifeform;all 'enigma', regardless of what kinda lipstick is put on'em, are sad.
1867261;1540846687;mircea_popescu;Consider K = 01010 ; P = 00111 ; RB = (00111), (01110), (11100), (11001), (10011).
1867262;1540846687;mircea_popescu;E therefore is : E1 = 0 x 0 x 1 = 0 ; E2 = 0 x 0 x 1 = 0 ; E3 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 0 ; E4 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 1 ; E5 = 1 x 1 x 1 = 0 thus E = 00010.
1867263;1540846687;mircea_popescu;To now obtain P back from E and K : P[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4] ; P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] ; P[3] = P[3] x P[4] x P[1] ; P[4] = P[4] x P[5] x P[2] ; P[5] = P[5] x P[0] x P[3].
1867264;1540846687;mircea_popescu;To obtain P back from E without K : P[1] = P[1] x K[1] * P[1] x K[2] * P[2] x K[3] * P[3] x K[4] * P[4] x K[5] * P[5] ; P[2] = P[2] x K[1] * P[2] x K[2] * P[3] x K[3] * P[4] x K[4] * P[5] x K[5] * P[6] ; and so following all the way down.
1867265;1540846707;mircea_popescu;so : with K it's a system of 5 equations with 5 unknowns ; without K it's a system of 5 equations with 10 unknowns.
1867266;1540846735;mircea_popescu;for a 5 bit key you only have to try 2^3 permutations or so, it's true. but anyways.
1867267;1540846741;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what's RB ?
1867268;1540846757;mircea_popescu;ring buffers
1867269;1540846766;asciilifeform;aa
1867270;1540846774;mircea_popescu;s-boxes, if you prefer.
1867271;1540846820;asciilifeform;and you prolly meant 'P[1] = E[1] x E[2] x E[4] ;' neh
1867272;1540846836;mircea_popescu;neh.
1867273;1540846847;asciilifeform;then i dungetit
1867274;1540846855;asciilifeform;how does P[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4]  work
1867275;1540846855;mircea_popescu;E[1] = P[1] x P[2] x P[4] ; P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] is what i meant.
1867276;1540846869;asciilifeform;this in re 'to obtain P back from E and K'
1867277;1540846923;mircea_popescu;yes.
1867278;1540847066;asciilifeform;so, this is exactly the previous scheme, but with * rather than xor ?
1867279;1540847110;mircea_popescu;no no, x is xor * is multiplication (in the sense that if the key is 0 at that offset, the rb dun get applied)
1867280;1540847124;mircea_popescu;so if K[q] = 0, then that line's skipped ; otherwise it's applied.
1867281;1540847140;asciilifeform;so how does this diff from the previous item , what am i missing
1867282;1540847193;asciilifeform;.. and how do i eat P[2] = P[2] x P[3] x P[5] , it's recursive
1867283;1540847294;mircea_popescu;to be clear : it's exactly the same scheme ; showing you how P ~must~ be obtainable from known K and E.
1867284;1540847367;BingoBoingo;In other updates: Cansorship resistance piece approaching 1500 words and has yet to advance beyond 2014 Republican state of the art.
1867285;1540847458;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=2 with key=10
1867286;1540847468;asciilifeform;err  if i encrypt message=2 with key=10, i get same 5 as if i encrypt message=7 with key=10
1867287;1540847475;asciilifeform;run the proggy.
1867288;1540847479;asciilifeform;it aint 1:1.
1867289;1540847521;asciilifeform;i.e. crosscut shredder.
1867290;1540847580;asciilifeform;the transform is not reversible.
1867291;1540847717;asciilifeform;worse, msg=8,key=10 still 5.
1867292;1540847796;asciilifeform;knowing the key and the ciphertext tells you almost nuffin about the plaintext, cuz it's a write-only-memory, lol
1867293;1540847813;asciilifeform;you lose the info as it gets xor'd with rotated copies of self.
1867294;1540847865;asciilifeform;which is why http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867222 earlier.
1867295;1540847865;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 19:39 asciilifeform: pretty handy proof , however, that the xor liquishit on the right hand side of those serpent eqs, doesn't conserve entropy !
1867296;1540847938;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you agree that if i give you 5 equations with 5 unknowns, this is in fact resolvable ?
1867297;1540847947;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/eDGtm/?raw=true if y'dontbelieve.
1867298;1540847971;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it'd be resolvable if that's actually what you had. but in fact you dun have.
1867299;1540847983;asciilifeform;yer bits got xor'd with selves and turned into 0s.
1867300;1540848010;mircea_popescu;only if 1st bit of key is set :(
1867301;1540848012;mircea_popescu;:) *
1867302;1540848026;asciilifeform;y'know, lol, like in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867005 .
1867303;1540848026;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 06:45 Mocky: or a more direct counter argument: A xor A = 0
1867304;1540848040;asciilifeform;( ty Mocky btw, it's what got the whole thing moving )
1867305;1540848054;mircea_popescu;there's a reason i say " Consider K = 01010"
1867306;1540848129;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's the k in my example, neh
1867307;1540848183;mircea_popescu;i confess i dunno what teh breakdown is, here.
1867308;1540848206;asciilifeform;try the proggy, it will make sense, i suspect
1867309;1540848242;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why "new buf:  [1, 1, 0, 1]" ?
1867310;1540848260;asciilifeform;after xor for that step
1867311;1540848337;asciilifeform;( keep in mind that [1, 1, 0, 1] is 11, we print the bits in ascending majority. can reverse if it makes moar readable, if you like )
1867312;1540848398;asciilifeform;in that step, yer message was [1, 1, 1, 0], it got rotated by 1 place, and is then [1, 1, 0, 1], and that's yer buf after 1st step.
1867313;1540848426;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform K = 0101, P = 1110. RB = (1110), (1101), (1011), (0111). E1 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 1 ; E2 = 1 x 1 x 1 = 0 ; E3 = 1 x 0 x 1 = 0 ; E4 = 0 x 1 x 1 = 0 ; E = 1000.
1867314;1540848429;mircea_popescu;why is your E 1010 ?
1867315;1540848446;asciilifeform;btw 'message gets xor'd with self' is not whole story, what you're doing is asking 1 bit to store 3 or more , this dunwork
1867316;1540848462;mircea_popescu;i honestly have nfi what you're talking aboot.
1867317;1540848537;asciilifeform;you're xoring Kbits distinct (if lowest kbit is 0, and there are no symmetries in the message) strings into a Kbits-sized hole.
1867318;1540848542;asciilifeform;this dun make sense ?
1867319;1540848547;mircea_popescu;notrly.
1867320;1540848557;asciilifeform;i dun currently know how to make it clearer.
1867321;1540848571;mircea_popescu;i guess this'll have to rest then.
1867322;1540848592;mircea_popescu;unless you're willing do debug the .py, it's spitting out wrong values.
1867323;1540848600;asciilifeform;willing
1867324;1540848605;asciilifeform;plox to show for which pair wrong output
1867325;1540848611;mircea_popescu;ok, so make 7 10 yield 1000 not 1010. as above!
1867326;1540848759;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/UGLI3/?raw=true << verboser proggy; http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NpoNl/?raw=true out
1867327;1540848874;asciilifeform;also, mircea_popescu: 1 x 1 x 0 aint 1
1867328;1540848887;asciilifeform;and 1x1x1 aint 0
1867329;1540848895;asciilifeform;if we're speaking of xor.
1867330;1540848961;asciilifeform;yer example dun go with the arithmetic on my planet, no matter how i define 'x'
1867331;1540849234;asciilifeform;dun have to believe proggy, do it with pen, and write the troof table for xor if you must.
1867332;1540849304;asciilifeform;( spoiler : 1x1->0, 0x1->1, 1x0->1, 0x0->0 )
1867333;1540849363;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1867334;1540849826;mircea_popescu;lmao ima have to redo this. apparently im terrible at handmaffs
1867335;1540849866;mircea_popescu;K = 0101, P = 1110. RB = (1110), (1101), (1011), (0111). E1 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 0 ; E2 = 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 ; E3 = 1 x 0 x 1 = 0 ; E4 = 0 x 1 x 1 = 1 ; E = 0101 ?
1867336;1540849869;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ^
1867337;1540850058;mircea_popescu;mno, actually still bs.
1867338;1540850069;mircea_popescu;K = 0101, P = 1110. RB = (1110), (1101), (1011), (0111). E1 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 0 ; E2 = 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 ; E3 = 1 x 0 x 1 = 0 ; E4 = 0 x 1 x 1 = 0 ; E = 0100.
1867339;1540850085;mircea_popescu;by now, covered all the possible combinations of 4 bits (ain't that many) -- but never fell on the mp.py 1010.
1867340;1540850599;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ar3qj/?raw=true << even moar pedantic
1867341;1540850656;asciilifeform;( src, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5JKVg/?raw=true )
1867342;1540850789;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: your 1st 'lmao will have to redo' is correct.
1867343;1540850881;asciilifeform;except that you did the key walk backwards.
1867344;1540851021;*;asciilifeform genuinely bbl
1867345;1540851095;mircea_popescu;i don't actually follow your proggy any ; regardless, the values it spits dun seem to agree with what i expect.
1867346;1540851161;mircea_popescu;if we manage to fixate on a specific datapoint we'd prolly benefit here.
1867347;1540851304;mircea_popescu;on the other hand, entirely unclear to me why the fuck we're discussing some [evidently buggy/misimplemented] program or my own inept handcalculus. either we agree a system of n equations with n unknowns is determinate or we don't and that's the end of the matter.
1867348;1540852963;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867144 -> asciilifeform, do you mind outlining how you see this? I'm still chewing it all but atm I have trouble fully grasping this.
1867349;1540852963;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 16:52 asciilifeform: a proggy that takes a 256b key and shits out its 4+ sister-keys, prolly wouldnt hurt, either; if somebody can be arsed to write.
1867350;1540853799;diana_coman;basically I get http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867091 BUT can't yet follow it to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867092 mainly because it seems to me that the effect of A is basically in fixing d,f,h (so that xor(a,d,f,h)=0); in short: wouldn't a change (of any number of bits) in a trigger (if imposing xor(a,d,f,h)=0 still) changes further in b-h so that the resulting key schedule is different? theoretically that would be the ration
1867351;1540853799;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 16:18 asciilifeform: so! for instance ! if a, d, f, h are such that xor(a,d,f,h) = 0, then term a no longer appears in the equation at all !
1867352;1540853799;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 16:19 asciilifeform: so all possible inputs where this holds , result in the same inflated-key.
1867353;1540853799;diana_coman;ale for the choice of underlying primitive polynomial but I'm still fuzzy on what goes on in there exactly
1867354;1540853983;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if we can agree to walk the key in same direction, we get same answ
1867355;1540854115;deedbot;http://bingology.net/2018/10/29/censorship-resistance-in-2018-an-introduction/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog - Censorship Resistance In 2018 - An Introduction
1867356;1540854117;BingoBoingo;^ asciilifeform mod6 mircea_popescu Please correct me if I have misunderstood anything
1867357;1540854118;asciilifeform;diana_coman: look at the recurrence, term a appears directly only once, in w(0)
1867358;1540854123;BingoBoingo;Just under 2100 words
1867359;1540854143;asciilifeform;diana_coman: errywhere else, it appears strictly as a copy of w(0)
1867360;1540854171;asciilifeform;ditto, term b only appears directly in w(1)
1867361;1540854204;asciilifeform;and c -- in w(2) ; d -- in w(3) .
1867362;1540854265;BingoBoingo;If the censorship resistance piece survives peer review, Imma test it on some orcs and start using it as my explainer to heathens for why the fuck I am in this hell hole
1867363;1540854267;asciilifeform;e -- in w(4) .
1867364;1540854288;asciilifeform;err, strike that
1867365;1540854297;asciilifeform;but the rest, appear-directly 1ce.
1867366;1540854318;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'm baking a proggy that shits out sister keys, if it still dun make sense, you can wait till its birthed and try yourself.
1867367;1540854398;asciilifeform;test is straightforward, you take yer vintage serpent and feed in k1,string, get ciphertext1, k2,string, get ciphertext2, and observe that the ciphertexts are same (cuz key expanded to same thing)
1867368;1540854601;asciilifeform;cleaning up the above : a, b, c, appear directly 1ce; the rest --only as recurrence terms.
1867369;1540854813;asciilifeform;if you have d,f,h, such that a == d xor f xor h ( or if you like , a xor d == f xor h , or  a xor d xor f == h , it's transitive) then a term disappears from the eqn
1867370;1540854817;BingoBoingo;!Q later tell nicoleci please use irc instead of linked in messaging
1867371;1540854822;asciilifeform;will leave the others as exercise.
1867372;1540854926;asciilifeform;likewise, e.g., entire w(1) term will disappear if you have (XOR B E G (RL11 (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9 0)) == #9e3779b9 ( the 1 dun du nuffin, as 9 is odd)
1867373;1540854939;asciilifeform;can similarly do for the other right-hands.
1867374;1540855945;asciilifeform;grr, #9e3779b8, the 1 flips. i'ma leave this alone until proggy.
1867375;1540855950;*;asciilifeform tired
1867376;1540861153;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo fledling / fledgling ?
1867377;1540861256;mircea_popescu;also i wouldn't give http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/#selection-67.90-67.101 & co obscure grupuscle any voice. freeze peach, really ? five morons talking about "things" "as if they were things" dun make "things" anything.
1867378;1540861263;mircea_popescu;and don't be the sixth.
1867379;1540861842;BingoBoingo;ty
1867380;1540862033;mircea_popescu;also, dubious expressions, a collection : "to understand that why they want" ; "if your words actual words are avaible" ; "manufacter a pretext" ; "lack anyway to know" ; "the manufactered insecurity" ; "maladapted in ways invite bullying."
1867381;1540862090;mircea_popescu;but the main issue is that this reads like an approximately sorted succession of conclusions. painfully absent a) the logical justification for the various sentences and b) a very clear indication of structure, how they all work together ; from this b there would then flow a much better a.
1867382;1540862095;mircea_popescu;so i'd say needs a rewrite.
1867383;1540862191;BingoBoingo;Rewrite it is
1867384;1540862394;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo also weirdly i don't get your pingbacks
1867385;1540862462;BingoBoingo;I'll look into that too, since moving to mp-wp should have alleviated that.
1867386;1540862497;BingoBoingo;Anyways, having stepped away from the shovel and rereading I realize I also left out any timelines of the frog boiling
1867387;1540862534;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo that article's call-list also reminded me of like, http://trilema.com/2013/of-mice-and-men-revisited/ and such great lulz
1867388;1540862553;mircea_popescu;remember back in 2013, when the power-rangers genuinely thought htey had an existence, of their own and by themselves, entirely outside of my say-so ?
1867389;1540862620;BingoBoingo;I do indeed
1867390;1540862647;mircea_popescu;i had apparently forgotten.
1867391;1540862730;BingoBoingo;I remember reading the original mice and men piece on Trilema and thinking "I gotta start fixing myself"
1867392;1540862763;mircea_popescu;that's impressive!
1867393;1540862789;BingoBoingo;5 years later and I'm still working on it
1867394;1540862815;mod6;evenin'
1867395;1540862822;BingoBoingo;evenin mod6
1867396;1540862906;mod6;I'm just sitting over here, pondering The Foundation monthly address...
1867397;1540863079;BingoBoingo;Anyways, with the blog business I have resigned myself to the medium's resistance to my filling it. Treating the blog as a notebook that I happen to let others read (A habit I have been suggesting Latinas mulling the blog hobby adopt) I accept there is no shame in rewriting.
1867398;1540863159;mircea_popescu;i can see it.
1867399;1540863181;BingoBoingo;I can't effectively read anything without having reread it first, and I can't write pieces over 300 words without needing to rewrite them.
1867400;1540863186;mircea_popescu;hey, forum forces changes in people ; i used to do multiple articles/day (even have days with 12+!) ; nowadays do maaaybe two a week. it's what it is.
1867401;1540863220;mircea_popescu;start with a theoretical idea of blog, resign to how it practically works.
1867402;1540863260;mod6;Also, I finally ate the whole block chain again with my node; it's currently syncing the final ~2000 blocks.  Should be back up and running fully in the next day or two.  Yes, totally got a full back just in case.
1867403;1540863261;BingoBoingo;With some low stakes matters like the cannabis piece I trust myself to do the rewriting, hence the long turn around time. For a piece on Republican doctrine, the republic's gotta weigh in on a draft
1867404;1540863354;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo fwiw i believe bansky makes a way the fuck better example than weev.
1867405;1540863358;BingoBoingo;And one thing that clicks off and on with me is how very much Qntra as a herald and wire service is very much not a blog
1867406;1540863360;mod6;(noad running with mod6_excise_hash_truncation.vpatch + mod6_phexdigit_fix.vpatch (reground, not yet posted because keccak) + asciilifeform_whogaveblox.vpatch
1867407;1540863391;mod6;(alf's patch reground onto phexdigit -- for my peronsal use only at this point)
1867408;1540863409;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Banksy is as best as I can tell unrepentant Pantsuit scum working for USG.blue
1867409;1540863443;BingoBoingo;I use weev as the example for the tragedy of him having touched the republic and missed the point.
1867410;1540863465;mircea_popescu;how do you reason ?
1867411;1540863478;mircea_popescu;but yes, sure, i can see the oedipian tragedy of weev.
1867412;1540863499;BingoBoingo;Banksy is pop culture
1867413;1540863511;mircea_popescu;what's what mean ?
1867414;1540863525;BingoBoingo;He did an intro for the Simpsons
1867415;1540863543;mircea_popescu;lmao. so if i ever go on 60 minutes i'm banned ?
1867416;1540863606;BingoBoingo;If you go on 60 minutes, I assume you are going to have them read the articles of surrender while the girls affix their cock cages
1867417;1540863753;mircea_popescu;well yeah but i mean... so he was on simpsons. i dun see the logic.
1867418;1540863877;mod6;lol 186.52.149.227 bombing me with bastards
1867419;1540863933;mod6;404 of them :D
1867420;1540863943;BingoBoingo;As best as I can tell banksy does this vague anti-capitalist, anti-fascist schtick to much pantsuitist adoration while a substantial number of nytimes-ish media folk seem to be in on the seekrit
1867421;1540864006;BingoBoingo;I just have trouble seeing what is supposed to make banksy cool
1867422;1540864097;BingoBoingo;As opposed to another john oliver turning parody into cancer
1867423;1540864329;mircea_popescu;you read http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-banksy-painting-self-destructs-london-20181006-story.html sorta thing in the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-19#761410 MATTERS!!! vein ?
1867424;1540864329;a111;Logged on 2014-07-19 02:47 Pierre_Rochard: WHCD stands for White House Correspondents Dinner, where journalists go to pretend like they’re doing shit
1867425;1540864411;BingoBoingo;I do
1867426;1540864432;BingoBoingo;mod6: That is my present residential ip
1867427;1540864486;mod6;oh. huh
1867428;1540864540;mod6;maybe i just caught a bad run from ya
1867429;1540864569;mircea_popescu;it's true nobody but ny outfits with ~0 readership or influence a la http://trilema.com/2017/party-monster/ ever mention it. but it seemed to me more the case of "look at st james' desperation to pretend like he's hanging on" than any sort of active pushing.
1867430;1540864594;mircea_popescu;where the fuck is that line, i recall putting the dork's current fake media effort in the logs at some point, for the 0 readers 0 anything lulz.
1867431;1540864600;mircea_popescu;now i can't even find it anymore. talk about fade-out.
1867432;1540864724;BingoBoingo;I'd take banksy a lot more seriously if he caught the bad side of the feds, won on appeal, touched the republic, then decided he could stack his own chairs just fine as he proceeded on his moon mission
1867433;1540864763;mircea_popescu;(incidentally, for the midden diggers : that "club kids" crew actually invented the pantsuit. yes it's true hilary stwart wore it on tv before going to jail, so it became popular with her fat old white women crowd. but before she could wear it, someone had to make it -- and they did. "here, this is the unitard. This and a hat was basically the whole thing. You can get different hats and I guess paint your face to look differe
1867434;1540864763;mircea_popescu;nt")
1867435;1540864793;mod6;lmao
1867436;1540864880;mod6;CALL 1-900-PANT-SUIT RIGHT NOW TO ORDER YOURS!  JUST FIVE EASY INSTALLMENTS OF $12.99!  ORDER NOW AND GET AN ENTIRE SECOND UNITARD OUTFIT, FREEEEE!!!!111
1867437;1540864913;mod6;*snort*
1867438;1540864917;mircea_popescu;meanwhile at mp compound, "martha stewart is the one with the conviction and the late night cable tv infomercials. hilary clinton in the one with the failed bids to everything" "you seriously expect me to distinguish these two ? how ?!"
1867439;1540865102;BingoBoingo;Martha Stewart lost by partnering with Kmart, Clinton lost by being a loser all on her own
1867440;1540865159;mircea_popescu;well, she partnered with "i was in the situation room!!!! SITTING THERE!!!! WHERE WERE YOU >?!?!?!?!"
1867441;1540865247;BingoBoingo;In 2003 between my junior and senior years of highschool I wrote a piece of music that my computer compiled only for the faggot running the concert to butcher my short biography at the time. http://www.voxnovus.com/60x60/2003_International_Mix.htm
1867442;1540865273;BingoBoingo;That was 15 years ago.
1867443;1540865304;BingoBoingo;New York has done nothing in the interim to redeem its city or its people
1867444;1540865319;*;asciilifeform knows what orig pantsuit was, but always pictures it as a sort of jumpsuit, no arms, zips up all the way at the nose , leaving only eyes exposed, gigantic pants 
1867445;1540865358;mod6;that's a bodybag.
1867446;1540865364;asciilifeform;lol!
1867447;1540865368;mod6;similar
1867448;1540865390;asciilifeform;moar like 'reddit bag'
1867449;1540865397;mod6;hah
1867450;1540865407;asciilifeform;face visible, so you can sorta tell the occupants apart
1867451;1540865427;*;BingoBoingo still laments the lack of reddit bags off shore as I go to visit the harmonics lab
1867452;1540865485;BingoBoingo;<mod6> CALL 1-900-PANT-SUIT RIGHT NOW TO ORDER YOURS!  JUST FIVE EASY INSTALLMENTS OF $12.99!  ORDER NOW AND GET AN ENTIRE SECOND UNITARD OUTFIT, FREEEEE!!!!111 << mod6 you would be amazed the things they let people finance here in 18 monthly payments
1867453;1540865490;BingoBoingo;like sneakers
1867454;1540865511;asciilifeform;btw BingoBoingo i've conceived of a land-based use for reddit bags : stick a valve stem on'em and you have a coupla wks of fuel..
1867455;1540865544;mod6;lol.  i was buying a fishing pole in Show Low the other week... a guy put an 870 on the counter for "Lay-away".  I was kinda blown away that still existed.
1867456;1540865549;asciilifeform;( for 1burner stove )
1867457;1540865574;asciilifeform;mod6: mossberg??
1867458;1540865577;mod6;rem
1867459;1540865589;asciilifeform;that's, what, a 300 $ piece ?
1867460;1540865612;BingoBoingo;And 870 when I left was anywhere from $250 to $1500
1867461;1540865617;mod6;used to be... now probably like 700-800 maybe.
1867462;1540865617;asciilifeform;then again, i saw 80 $ desk lamp being advertised 'layaway'
1867463;1540865628;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu saw calendar in egypt, ditto
1867464;1540865639;BingoBoingo;In Uruguay a 300 USD shotgun sells for at least 650 USD
1867465;1540865653;asciilifeform;nuts
1867466;1540865663;mod6;anyway, i guess thats not very redic.  i just had it in my mind that a man comes in to buy shotgun.  pays, leaves with shotgun.  doesn't do very much good if it's still at the store when you need it.
1867467;1540865676;asciilifeform;it's a ~musket, not exactly high tech
1867468;1540865701;mod6;BingoBoingo: I believe it.  It's probably hard to aquire firearms down there 'eh?
1867469;1540865715;asciilifeform;i suppose still made in usa, accts for the price
1867470;1540865744;BingoBoingo;mod6: Still easy by Latin American standards by the book. Easier off the book per the traditional methods.
1867471;1540865749;*;mircea_popescu liked ny, but that was more in the 80s.
1867472;1540865773;mircea_popescu;http://www.voxnovus.com/60x60/2003_International_Mix.htm#Aaron_Rogier << keks.
1867473;1540865806;asciilifeform;i do recall BingoBoingo mentioning his musical days
1867474;1540865810;BingoBoingo;For the record I played euphonium in high school, have no idea how a saxophone works
1867475;1540865831;mircea_popescu;close enough, kek
1867476;1540865941;BingoBoingo;Anyways it is amaxing the things that can be had in Uruguay. The grow shops are sitting on piles of borosilicate glass and pointy pieces of titanium because the Uruguayos can't roll good joints and see no reasons to explore alternatives.
1867477;1540865970;BingoBoingo;Yet, try looking for RAM and all of a sudden its fucking junkyard wars
1867478;1540866018;mircea_popescu;heh
1867479;1540866025;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: if its for yer human lappy, say what type and i'ma mail you some wrapped in birdcage liner
1867480;1540866047;asciilifeform;(if its for opterons, fughet it, hard enuff to get ~here~)
1867481;1540866048;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: the lappy has more ram than I can use
1867482;1540866074;BingoBoingo;At this point I do a lot of pre-emptive shopping
1867483;1540866101;mod6;Good call.  Grab that stuff if you see it.
1867484;1540866178;BingoBoingo;Anyways, if anyone wants a PPC machine colo'd in Pizarro feel free to inquire. There's not a deep market, but there is one.
1867485;1540866205;asciilifeform;bigendian tester !
1867486;1540866230;BingoBoingo;G3 and G4 apple portables do pop up for sale here
1867487;1540866238;mod6;can do sparc64 bigE too, probably find even 1U box
1867488;1540866258;BingoBoingo;Looked, apparently Sun Microsystems never shined this far south
1867489;1540866264;mod6;ah
1867490;1540866266;asciilifeform;mod6: they're a dime a dozen here, but not rally worth cost of transport
1867491;1540866274;asciilifeform;*really
1867492;1540866283;asciilifeform;less horse than rk
1867493;1540866316;asciilifeform;(while eating 200-400 watt )
1867494;1540866322;BingoBoingo;My back
1867495;1540866337;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i meant , from gringolandia
1867496;1540866347;BingoBoingo;My back's memory is pretty sure a kitted out Sun Ultra 80 will fail to meet the checked bag weight
1867497;1540866388;mod6;hanbot: Still have interest in an offical Co-Chair seat for the Foundation?
1867498;1540866389;asciilifeform;eh they aint anywhere near the limit
1867499;1540866413;asciilifeform;minitower.
1867500;1540866440;BingoBoingo;Tower, but mini for odd deinfitions of mini. Lots of sharp plastic too
1867501;1540866445;asciilifeform;( i was speaking of the 1us tho, they weigh ~same as our boxen )
1867502;1540866469;mod6;hanbot nicoleci: Thanks for your hard work this month to get the Toll Free Number setup and going (asciilifeform too).  I expect if hanbot were to take an offical Co-Chair seat, she could lead the outreach inititive.
1867503;1540866487;asciilifeform;one time i was offered entire pallet of'em, iirc 10bux/ea. passed.
1867504;1540866529;asciilifeform;fella had sgi's also.
1867505;1540866538;mod6;iirc mircea_popescu said we could even have three chairs(?) might be mis-remembering that (may have to log-dig for that).  I'd be happy to continue doing my role with a TRB focus, or I could step down officially and just keep doing TRB stuffs without the fancy title.
1867506;1540866615;mod6;(I bring this all up now, as I want to announce that hanbot and nicoleci are now helping out with the outreach and phone number -- and if there are going to be possible new chair, or added chair, etc)
1867507;1540866681;mod6;oh, ok here's that thread: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856638
1867508;1540866681;a111;Logged on 2018-10-01 16:30 mircea_popescu: ~then~, after that gets established, one can step down, add another, and so on. like a steps process, with continuity and everything.
1867509;1540866878;BingoBoingo;Also December 7, 8, and 9th will be the expocannabis Uruguay. I plan on going there in a recon capacity, if anyone else is looking for a very Uruguay reason to visit Uruguay, that would be the weekend to come on down.
1867510;1540866997;*;BingoBoingo trying to find explanations other than hunger and misplaced optimism for why borosilicate and genetics sell cheaper here than they do in the US
1867511;1540867058;BingoBoingo;Maybe there's a suitcase courier network I missed out on in spite of more than half a year in a hostel
1867512;1540867697;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: it's glass, can be made anywhere
1867513;1540867716;asciilifeform;( and who's to say that borated. can entirely be ordinary. )
1867514;1540867765;BingoBoingo;Enthusiastic impact tests by store proprietors support borated
1867515;1540867822;BingoBoingo;And though glass can be done anywhere, like most things it requires skill and discipline which forces China as a source
1867516;1540867856;BingoBoingo;Meanwhile in local news 2 kilos of meth per person cuffed, moving up in the world https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/incautaron-10-kilos-de-metanfetaminas-y-hay-cinco-brasilenos-detenidos-2018102922040
1867517;1540868191;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> ( and who's to say that borated. can entirely be ordinary. ) << To be clear doping glass is borosilicate because dopers are clumsy when doped. Because dabbing is apparently a thing now titanium means titanium when it comes to dope tools that get heated. Otherwise metal not specified means Zamac, and Aluminum usually means Zamac, because that's what the first A in Zamac is for
1867518;1540868338;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo brazilians tho.
1867519;1540868362;BingoBoingo;Sure, better people
1867520;1540868460;BingoBoingo;They got trusted with the job of converying product to the local neighborhood dope warehouse forts
1867521;1540868543;BingoBoingo;Kinda curious what the police mean by a kilo of hashish considering that's a substance which has gone through some reddit "we R innovators" stuff in the past five years
1867522;1540869064;BingoBoingo;Welcome back phf
1867523;1540869109;BingoBoingo;And in local butthole surfing https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/solo-14-de-los-uruguayos-ve-con-buenos-ojos-el-triunfo-de-bolsonaro-segun-equipos-20181029194848
1867524;1540869446;*;BingoBoingo eagerly awaits family tree showing common ancestor shared by Emperor Dom Pedro II and Bolsonaro
1867525;1540871417;mircea_popescu;"ve con buenos ojos" ?! whgat the fuck nonsense is this
1867526;1540872462;BingoBoingo;It's the sort of monkey noises I can't escape
1867527;1540872517;mircea_popescu;as fucking if, these morons trying to "write the news" as per 1980s usg.blue recipes. what are they, stuck with old magazines in an outhouse or something ?
1867528;1540872554;BingoBoingo;Yes, and they try to use "poetic license" as they do it
1867529;1540872627;mircea_popescu;schmucks.
1867530;1540872721;BingoBoingo;And they became the paper of record because El Pais adopted still more user hostile web design turd traps into their pages
1867531;1540872871;BingoBoingo;Thankfully Uruguay is a small country and I am young. They will not like it, but because I am young I have time to spend in the pursuit of lifting them.
1867532;1540872920;BingoBoingo;They will surely squirm and I will have to rehab my left shoulder several times. But I will lift them.
1867533;1540872956;mircea_popescu;committed huh ?
1867534;1540873071;BingoBoingo;I desperately need higher purpose in my life. Gloria the Peruana adores me so much it is ridiculous. My sex life offer no resistance in the medium. Pizarro is a struggle and I pursue that among peers.
1867535;1540873078;BingoBoingo;By contrast the Uruguayos...
1867536;1540873088;BingoBoingo;I come from a simple people
1867537;1540873101;BingoBoingo;These are a simple people
1867538;1540873115;BingoBoingo;And yet they could not be more alien
1867539;1540873137;BingoBoingo;I hate much about them
1867540;1540873151;BingoBoingo;And they hate the idea of me while loving and embracing the actual me
1867541;1540873232;BingoBoingo;Bitches yelling in the street this morning against Bolsonaro swoon when I say "Make Brasil and Empire Again"
1867542;1540873335;BingoBoingo;As a socially maladjusted fringe figure the Republic has lead me to living in a puzzle playground that fascinates me so incredibly much
1867543;1540873423;BingoBoingo;As I curse the undead zombies that doom me to walking the beach in the wee hours all by myself because a country with a car ownership rate near zero somehow managed to not adopt sane pedestrian customs
1867544;1540873536;BingoBoingo;This country is a god damned emotional see-saw and I don't know if I can quit it
1867545;1540873605;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=70 << Bimbo.Club - What I wish I knew a month ago.
1867546;1540873616;BingoBoingo;But if I do, it will probably be like that time you moved to Argentina, thought you would go for citizenship, and left only to swear your next visit would be to put every single head on a pike
1867547;1540873742;BingoBoingo;And... my rant got upstaged by the escapee from the shittier part of Illinois. Well played nicoleci
1867548;1540873756;mircea_popescu;well... not bad.
1867549;1540873763;mircea_popescu;may your efforts be fertile!
1867550;1540873824;mircea_popescu;ahahah btw, thart's fucking genuine. bitch abandoned her car where they shot some people, ended up suspected perp/victim in multi-homicide.
1867551;1540873829;mircea_popescu;SERIAL KILLER BIMBO FTW!
1867552;1540873855;BingoBoingo;lol, did she really just cut the family out of her international move?
1867553;1540873879;mircea_popescu;i dunno, some weird drama. i guess fambly figured they owned her or soemthing.
1867554;1540873880;mod6;drama
1867555;1540873977;BingoBoingo;Anyways, after spending more time here I went from seeing contrasts versus Argentines on landing, to similarities to Argentines during the time ben_vulpes was here, to now accepting the Uruguayos are weird and alien in a way that makes the Argentines look like hill billies
1867556;1540874062;BingoBoingo;Do you still have the traffic stop set up at the foot a castle Popescu?
1867557;1540874246;BingoBoingo;Anyways, I guess next time sell the car? Trade it for a pnoHe and then sell the pnoHe in destination?
1867558;1540874807;BingoBoingo;In still other anyways, where I am today I see the endgame where Pizarro survives to Profitability; I continue Qntra and other writing/social engineering, and gardening someting other than container chives while a republican colony settles down in this Martian hellscape wouldn't be a bad play.
1867559;1540874872;mod6;that trb mars-lag tho
1867560;1540874908;BingoBoingo;Eh, I only shit hundreds of blocks at you out of short lag mis communications
1867561;1540874923;mod6;:D
1867562;1540875151;BingoBoingo;Who knows maye 10 years down the line I catch up to the log summaries and manage to stabilize a cannabis cultivar that gives a pleasant head rush with minimal stupids and sedation in contrast to Pantsuit fad pressure dab shit.
1867563;1540875188;BingoBoingo;We live in [current year] and [soon to be current year] is ahead of us
1867564;1540875188;mod6;i like this whogaveblox
1867565;1540875203;mod6;preach
1867566;1540875277;BingoBoingo;!Q later tell danielpbarron are you still alive and doing alright?
1867567;1540875616;mircea_popescu;!Xsell 1.5bn 48 9.5k wFF q0
1867568;1540875616;auctionbot;Sell order # 1004 created by mircea_popescu: 9.5k wFF q0 Opening: 1.5bn ecu Ending: 2018-10-31 17:00:23.871700 UTC (47 hours)
1867569;1540875627;mircea_popescu;let's give this thing another try ; same riders as b4.
1867570;1540875630;mircea_popescu;mod6 BingoBoingo ^
1867571;1540875752;mod6;hey hey!
1867572;1540875960;mod6;trying to see how to bid on this thing
1867573;1540875965;mod6;BingoBoingo you know how?
1867574;1540875969;*;mod6 rtfms
1867575;1540876032;BingoBoingo;!Xhelp
1867576;1540876033;auctionbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/10/auctionbot-is-live/
1867577;1540876080;BingoBoingo;lobbes: Your documentation for auctionbot is notably missing how to bid
1867578;1540876229;mod6;yeah, not sure if I'm supposed to !Xbuy or not
1867579;1540876391;mats;my blog post is still forthcoming, just delayed a couple weeks. chinese class is picking up a bit, so i've been focusing my attention there
1867580;1540876437;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo i'd expect !Q to !X mapping, so !Xbid
1867581;1540876508;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I'll give lobbes 24 hours to confirm before submitting to assumed mapping
1867582;1540876690;mircea_popescu;sure.
1867583;1540876697;mod6;I'll fire in a bid
1867584;1540876718;mod6;!Xbid 1004 1.5bn
1867585;1540876718;auctionbot;mod6: Eggog: Your bid is too low. Opening bid is 1.5bn, you bid 1.5bn
1867586;1540876743;mod6;XD
1867587;1540876857;mod6;!Xbid 1004 1500000001
1867588;1540876858;auctionbot;Sell order # 1004: 9.5k wFF q0 Heard: 1500000001 from mod6. Ending: 2018-10-31 17:00:23.871700 UTC (47 hours 39 mins)
1867589;1540876913;mircea_popescu;top keks
1867590;1540880178;mircea_popescu;sooo is archive.is dead nao ?
1867591;1540882162;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in incomprehensible lulz, https://galacticconnection.com/recognize-characteristics-reptilian-possessed-hybrids/
1867592;1540883570;BingoBoingo;So... the author is saying Sarah was a crocodile
1867593;1540883747;*;BingoBoingo still awake trying to ponder Wtf is up with Banksy
1867594;1540884902;mircea_popescu;noooo-body knows!
1867595;1540884968;BingoBoingo;The more I look into Banksy the more spam filters he hits
1867596;1540885039;BingoBoingo;I am going to lay down and try to sleep more confused and scared than I have been since February, because this banksy thing is some serious boogeyman shit
1867597;1540886703;mircea_popescu;lmao what now
1867598;1540895137;diana_coman;asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867369 -> there's something I don't get here: if A xor D xor F xor H = 0 then this imposes F xor H = A xor D and so you'd need to substitute that everywhere else because F and H are not anymore free to be whatever or the initial a xor d xor f xor h won't hold anymore; more precisely: further down the line for instance at W(2) that F xor H is in fact A xor D so A does actually still appear,
1867599;1540895137;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 23:13 asciilifeform: if you have d,f,h, such that a == d xor f xor h ( or if you like , a xor d == f xor h , or  a xor d xor f == h , it's transitive) then a term disappears from the eqn
1867600;1540895137;diana_coman;no? (specifically, W(2) = (RL11 (XOR C (XOR A D) (RL11 (XOR B E G (RL11 (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9 0)) #9e3779b9 1)) #9e3779b9 2)) )
1867601;1540895262;diana_coman;the above is what I meant earlier by the effect of A (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867350)
1867602;1540895262;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 22:56 diana_coman: basically I get http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867091 BUT can't yet follow it to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867092 mainly because it seems to me that the effect of A is basically in fixing d,f,h (so that xor(a,d,f,h)=0); in short: wouldn't a change (of any number of bits) in a trigger (if imposing xor(a,d,f,h)=0 still) changes further in b-h so that the resulting key schedule is different? theoretically that would be the ration
1867603;1540896246;diana_coman;in short: I am not yet able to fully eliminate A when I impose that (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9# 0)=0  ; do you actually have the re-rewritten transformations without A anywhere?
1867604;1540902903;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867577 << ty! fixed: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/10/auctionbot-is-live/
1867605;1540902903;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 05:08 BingoBoingo: lobbes: Your documentation for auctionbot is notably missing how to bid
1867606;1540902907;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867581 << I can indeed confirm that lobbesbot's !Q command syntax maps to auctionbot's !X (e.g. !Qbid 1000 10mn == !Xbid 1000 10mn)
1867607;1540902907;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 05:15 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll give lobbes 24 hours to confirm before submitting to assumed mapping
1867608;1540902919;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867585 << oy. this is a minor bug (a simple "<=" instead of "<" in my coad). I'ma fix right now (auctionbot commands temporarily suspended, one second..)
1867609;1540902919;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 05:18 auctionbot: mod6: Eggog: Your bid is too low. Opening bid is 1.5bn, you bid 1.5bn
1867610;1540903105;lobbes;okay, maintenance complete, bug fixed
1867611;1540903119;lobbes;(and commands back online)
1867612;1540903675;*;lobbes off to sit on saecular stake for 8 hours. bbl
1867613;1540904871;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867432 << thinking about it, yes i agree the jew-nazi has a more colorful life story. but think about it : his entire's life work, his sum total accomplishment, is being an aide to an obscure publisher of inconsequential tracts. this is exactly danielpbarron 's position, and it ain't much. that florida beauty queen had them beat, for instance, and she had them beat a) in her 20s, while these
1867614;1540904871;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 01:58 BingoBoingo: I'd take banksy a lot more seriously if he caught the bad side of the feds, won on appeal, touched the republic, then decided he could stack his own chairs just fine as he proceeded on his moon mission
1867615;1540904871;mircea_popescu; are 30something men and b) while her brain's the size of a pea.
1867616;1540905494;mircea_popescu;lobbes regression eh!
1867617;1540906031;mircea_popescu;diana_coman http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-126940 << for your lulz compartment.
1867618;1540906385;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, the parallel is actually quite striking, yes; otherwise though, if there is ONE thing that living in several countries teaches one is that there is nothing "Romanian" , yes
1867619;1540906392;mircea_popescu;right.
1867620;1540906425;mircea_popescu;nation of stupid.
1867621;1540908281;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in lulz of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864592 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858624 i give you... http://archive.is/mrxeg#selection-3577.0-3577.152
1867622;1540908281;a111;Logged on 2018-10-21 21:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864445 << not so, was briefly dead but then adobe released a new set after 5+ years silence and it's catching back up.
1867623;1540908281;a111;Logged on 2018-10-05 17:45 BingoBoingo: Anyways, the point is the cannabis forum wankers essentially invented their own Monsanto in the same way Linus and the men alone invented their own Microshit
1867624;1540911159;asciilifeform;diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/aZuZQ/?raw=true << example of term elimination. but tbf i'm still working from the hypothesis that i must be mistaken, somewhere, and all of the keybits are conserved, and could prove this somehow...
1867625;1540911165;asciilifeform;*tbh
1867626;1540911249;asciilifeform;the alternative is simply too lulzy to take seriously, just nao
1867627;1540911288;asciilifeform;diana_coman, mircea_popescu : i'ma feed the thing into an algebratron later tonight
1867628;1540911350;diana_coman;asciilifeform, so you set A to the constant so that it cancels out with that rather than "any A as long as (xor a d f h)=0"
1867629;1540911385;asciilifeform;diana_coman: correct, i haven't found the item i was looking for, thus far
1867630;1540911416;asciilifeform;ideally what i'll find is a proof that there are exactly 2**256 528byte expansions .
1867631;1540911451;asciilifeform;2nd best, is that i find the pill.
1867632;1540911501;asciilifeform;i'm quite reluctant to continue with the fpgaization thing unless i can get at the former.
1867633;1540911889;mircea_popescu;this makes sense.
1867634;1540911939;diana_coman;for anyone following along, I can confirm I got same as mircea_popescu here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867338
1867635;1540911939;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 21:54 mircea_popescu: K = 0101, P = 1110. RB = (1110), (1101), (1011), (0111). E1 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 0 ; E2 = 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 ; E3 = 1 x 0 x 1 = 0 ; E4 = 0 x 1 x 1 = 0 ; E = 0100.
1867636;1540912113;mircea_popescu;*thumbsup*
1867637;1540912124;mircea_popescu;now if only i managed to get these right on the first pass, stop confusing the shit out of everyone...
1867638;1540912856;asciilifeform;hey i too supplied some high octane confusium with which to be confused!11
1867639;1540913360;mircea_popescu;gotta build a republican chill pill plant.
1867640;1540914918;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867617 << this is lulzy indeed -- 'let's replace 1 hash where we dun have proof of injectivity with ~another~ where we dun even know where to start proving' ?!
1867641;1540914918;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 13:27 mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-126940 << for your lulz compartment.
1867642;1540914969;asciilifeform;( ftr i dun currently have the faintest notion re how to prove that keccak is injective )
1867643;1540914994;asciilifeform;( does PeterL ?? )
1867644;1540915124;mircea_popescu;i've temporarily misplaced the discussion of "let's say what can be said", brb finding it.
1867645;1540915251;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-11#1270344 << uncovering lulz in the process. ahh, recall back when usg thought it could BUY the republic ?
1867646;1540915251;a111;Logged on 2015-09-11 12:10 mircea_popescu: Blythe Masters says US lags in blockchain use (ft.com) / Over $60 million in funding raised for bitcoin companies this week alone. / bla bla << "To sum up : what we have so far are a few millions invested in hopeless start-ups that have no talent, no business model, aren't solving a problem and generally speaking don't exist other than as a tag on an orange calling it a potato." / http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-
1867647;1540915263;mircea_popescu;not enough "money" in the imaginary world for THAT, bitches!
1867648;1540915307;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: recall poor old al schwartz's reply to s.nsa ? 'if you succeed you will be killed or bought'
1867649;1540915328;mircea_popescu;menalone.
1867650;1540915349;asciilifeform;also a++ tautology, 'hey, y'say not killed or bought yet? clearly not succeed yet'
1867651;1540915496;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-16#1020689 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-15#1644151 (and of course, all skirting for http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ )
1867652;1540915496;a111;Logged on 2015-02-16 06:45 mircea_popescu: read one police report of crime x, you've read half of them. read ten, you've (practically) read them all. clinical psychology is only interesting to the patently insane, as a practice. otherwise all the notes say endlessly the same five or six things. there just aren't that many things to say.
1867653;1540915496;a111;Logged on 2017-04-15 17:27 mircea_popescu: given the list of all the things that have been said already (this is really a tree, but in his perspective it's flattened into a list by nulling out all the values associated with the string nodes), his choice is :
1867654;1540915503;mircea_popescu;holy shit, check that out, i found one of these for once.
1867655;1540915553;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so, the above : dood "wants to contribute". this want leads him through the rest.
1867656;1540915593;asciilifeform;there's an imho moar pertinent mircea_popescu piece, where 'archaetypical kid made gift for mother, out of acorns and matchsticks' or how did it go
1867657;1540915623;mircea_popescu;there's also that.
1867658;1540915636;asciilifeform;( some folx 'want contribute', but mysteriously can't be arsed to actually load open problem into head )
1867659;1540915657;asciilifeform;it's perhaps excusable for a 4 y.o. kid, but is odd when from adult
1867660;1540915664;mircea_popescu;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t2Mou/?raw=true << dude fucking webtard sites... who the fuck lives like this ?!
1867661;1540915684;mircea_popescu;it's ~still~ not done loading!
1867662;1540915688;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wtf is that
1867663;1540915710;mircea_popescu;some rando website.
1867664;1540915725;asciilifeform;... from spam log ?
1867665;1540915831;mircea_popescu;some fetlife chickie.
1867666;1540915836;asciilifeform;aa
1867667;1540915889;mircea_popescu;"I am Goddess KK I am an Interactive Fetish & Glam Model and ON pornhub and youtube! .. Bacially a Freak of Nature."
1867668;1540915894;mircea_popescu;i suppose you're missing out
1867669;1540915912;mircea_popescu;(she's also evidently lying about her age, tired 30yo hobag tryna pretend to right-outta-college-dom)
1867670;1540915986;asciilifeform;i aint an subj expert, but don't all cheap whores market as 'fresh' for as long as it is half-possible ?
1867671;1540916042;mircea_popescu;aactually... "I LOVE MY FANS XOXO I do Professional Foot Modeling, Fetish Work. I created this for exposure and business, Plus I love the Fetish World. I have experience with Photoshoots, Traveling, BDSM, PRO DOMME, Foot Fetish Services, and Foot NIght International, video editing, production, directing. I started from the ground up and am proud of the climb.
1867672;1540916042;mircea_popescu;I create and sell fetish porn on clips4sale, and i create funny sexy vids on YouTube and some HOT sexy teasers ON PORNHUB. I created my website [https://www.kelllikellly.com] I am very proud of my website, i own it as well and updates soon!! CHECK IT OUT, Do it cuz it’s actually awesome and I mean hello.... I made it. Soooo Im a YoungMILF, i am independent and live a happy life. If your wanting an in person session, message
1867673;1540916043;mircea_popescu; me for detials $ I also offer webcam services xooxo"
1867674;1540916061;asciilifeform;kinda how americanfootballists keep playing until their legs won't carry'em
1867675;1540916069;mircea_popescu;pardon the spam ; i bothered because honestly, this is paradigmatic. i dunno any pantsuits ACTUALLY exist ; but i know for sure there's millions of these rachel-hos.
1867676;1540916135;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i suspect roughly same dynamic as old-style spam. i.e. 'i heard others are doin' it, there gotta be moneys in it, so i'ma buy a webcam and interactivefetish kit'
1867677;1540916176;mircea_popescu;i think it goes deeper than that. the fundamental, biology-based female strategy is "here i am".
1867678;1540916184;asciilifeform;if man-alone dreams of 'money while sleep', fman-alone -- of 'money with dildo'
1867679;1540916186;mircea_popescu;in 2010s, this "here i am" is ^
1867680;1540916202;mircea_popescu;just like in the 80s, that same "here i am" was http://trilema.com/2016/portrait-of-an-adult-woman/
1867681;1540916208;mircea_popescu;imo technology brought decay, but hey.
1867682;1540916287;asciilifeform;main imho tech problem of our time, is that brekekekekex-amplifier is a penny while effective filter is a pound+.
1867683;1540916307;mircea_popescu;aaahahah, "Entrepreneur at its finest, Kelli Kelly, so good you had to say it twice. Aspiring to become a Motivational Speaker and Author. Fresh and unique with uplifting energy you will feel immediately entering her presence. Kelli has a different story and comes from a very different upbringing. Her experience is what " << chick's got a linkedin too. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelllikellly/
1867684;1540916343;mircea_popescu;all her friends are liek... Jennifer Best Fetish Model at Jennifer Best ; charlotte peters retired at home ; Miss T. Fetish Clip Producer, Fetish Performer, Glamour Model, Lingerie Model , Fetish Model, FemDom
1867685;1540916366;*;asciilifeform pictures koreans pronouncing name, ends up hashing to 'beriberi'
1867686;1540916439;mircea_popescu;SO GOOD YOU HAD TO SAY IT TWICE!
1867687;1540916817;mircea_popescu;diana_coman answered.
1867688;1540916898;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, but uhm, isn't that precisely the example I give in the comment and which leads to the wrong value? this: but with the formula above it would be E(2)= P(2) xor 0*P(1) xor 1*P(2) xor 0*P(3) xor 1*P(4) = P(2) xor P(2) xor P(4) = 1 xor 1 xor 0 = 0 .
1867689;1540916964;*;diana_coman brb
1867690;1540917104;mircea_popescu;diana_coman E[2] = 1 (because P[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[2] = 1 and RB2[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[4] = 1 and RB4[4] = 1). thus E[2] = 1.
1867691;1540917696;asciilifeform;i gotta admit that i still dun grasp how to decipher unambiguously into 1 single orig plaintext
1867692;1540917760;asciilifeform;the gaussian elimination thing would work if you had add (as in with carries) rather than xor
1867693;1540917795;asciilifeform;but what you have instead is addition over , if you will , galois field
1867694;1540917851;asciilifeform;perchance i can provoke mircea_popescu into writing a proggy that deciphers ?
1867695;1540917932;asciilifeform;( spoiler, btw -- if you had normal addition, yer algo reduces to 'multiply P by K', it'd then be exactly my 'egyptian' multiplier )
1867696;1540917963;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform fuck me, NOW i understand what you were on about yest --- E aren't THE RESULTS, but merely THE LAST BIT of a result. consequently, not actually eq system.
1867697;1540917968;asciilifeform;aha.
1867698;1540917976;asciilifeform;what you got, is egyptian mul, with thrown out carries.
1867699;1540917992;asciilifeform;they go to /dev/null, there is no way to get'em back deterministically.
1867700;1540918092;asciilifeform;( xor is == halfadder )
1867701;1540918241;asciilifeform;( 'egyptian div', btw, is pretty much exactly gaussian elimination , restated )
1867702;1540918289;asciilifeform;the closest thing i can think of to a working variant of mircea_popescu's device, is where you keep the carries, and use primes... and we know it as.. rsa
1867703;1540918392;asciilifeform;( tho the reason why rsa is based on exponentiation, rather than straight multiplication-of-'plaintext'-prime-by-seekrit-prime is that in the latter variant you could trivially extract seekrit-prime with gcd )
1867704;1540918484;asciilifeform;and yes if you had fast iron bignumtron, could use ordinary rsa and dispense with enigmas.
1867705;1540918536;asciilifeform;( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867259 )
1867706;1540918536;a111;Logged on 2018-10-29 20:56 asciilifeform: the basic boojum is that it aint a cipher of any kind, and the ubiquitous sbox derpery is simply squid ink to obscure this. maslennikov details how he pointed this out to 1980s kgb and got sacked.
1867707;1540918558;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i agree with you, this is a shredder not a cipher ; moreover -- if we for instance tried to add say crc into the message as padding, then therefore we'd be by the same hand introducing structure, ie weakness.
1867708;1540918574;mircea_popescu;and i further agree with you -- it is a very strong commentary and ceiling upon the security of "block ciphers". because yes, literally, all otehrs are just this with magic-numbered RBs. which... is EXACTLY the same "introduce say crc", except hidden under so much smoke.
1867709;1540918667;asciilifeform;reasonable cipher requires element that is at least a ~conjectured~ trap door (i.e. 'entry is a buck but exit is two'), e.g. exponentiation-with-primes
1867710;1540918768;asciilifeform;in '16 i burned coupla months on the q of 'can haz', mainly on np-hard problems / turing-complete cellular automata, in place of sboxation. but got stuck on the 'guaranteed hard instance' boojum.
1867711;1540918787;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867702 <<< very much this ; whereby it's actually the case we're starting to move towards an actual completion of the fucking field.
1867712;1540918787;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 16:51 asciilifeform: the closest thing i can think of to a working variant of mircea_popescu's device, is where you keep the carries, and use primes... and we know it as.. rsa
1867713;1540918846;asciilifeform;it's the reason for asciilifeform's lulzsubmission to mircea_popescu's 'block contest'. it wasn't even joak, it was 'rsa is the only tool in that box that i have any reason to think actually worx'
1867714;1540918923;mircea_popescu;there will be no altcoin ; there will be no alt-cipher ; this is a jealous god we got here.
1867715;1540918930;asciilifeform;seems like
1867716;1540918951;asciilifeform;of course it is possible to come up with infinite variety of garbage ciphers that 'hey it confused me!' but imho not very useful activity
1867717;1540918964;mircea_popescu;"is living of course in a state of sin"
1867718;1540918972;mircea_popescu;the problem is irreducible, either you mix entropy in or you don't.
1867719;1540918985;mircea_popescu;attempts to act "as if you had" will result in the above -- shredder.
1867720;1540918998;asciilifeform;in '16 we trivially reduced it to symmcipher == prng == hash
1867721;1540919007;mircea_popescu;and that stands.
1867722;1540919012;asciilifeform;( they're the same thing, if you had a provably working one, you get the other 2 gratis )
1867723;1540919074;asciilifeform;sorta why it did not make sense to asciilifeform that people sat and 'i'ma make a hash', 'i'ma make a cipher', a good x is exactly a good y
1867724;1540919149;asciilifeform;ditto prng. they're legs of triangle.
1867725;1540919237;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform let's try something else. suppose key = 512 bit prime and suppose cipher works as E = P ^ K | 2^512.
1867726;1540919249;asciilifeform;to make life even harder, rsa also suffers from 'can haz provably hard case' problem, there's classes of 'easy' primes, and no particular reason to think that we exhaustively know all of'em..
1867727;1540919303;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: multiplication with snipped off top half ?
1867728;1540919308;asciilifeform;how wouldja get P back ?
1867729;1540919320;mircea_popescu;exponentiation.
1867730;1540919324;asciilifeform;it's the add-without-carry thing again
1867731;1540919337;asciilifeform;you got a buncha intermediate addition bits that sink to the bottom of the sea
1867732;1540919349;mircea_popescu;myeah. there's just no wai outs.
1867733;1540919349;asciilifeform;( in the | 2^512 )
1867734;1540919370;asciilifeform;whereas if you don't throw them out, you have a reversible thing that is just multiplication, and i can gcd(p1,p2) == K.
1867735;1540919376;asciilifeform;err, e1,e2
1867736;1540919404;asciilifeform;( i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867703 )
1867737;1540919404;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 16:53 asciilifeform: ( tho the reason why rsa is based on exponentiation, rather than straight multiplication-of-'plaintext'-prime-by-seekrit-prime is that in the latter variant you could trivially extract seekrit-prime with gcd )
1867738;1540919419;mircea_popescu;ayup
1867739;1540919559;asciilifeform;( the 'intuitive' cure, 'let the primes be a sequence of primes, no prime used twice' is still breakable with fermat )
1867740;1540919605;asciilifeform;rsa & c-s (the latter, really a narrowed elgamal) are the only 2 oasis i know to exist in that desert.
1867741;1540919970;asciilifeform;for thread-completeness, asciilifeform will mention that he does not believe that ecc, as seen in bitcoin, is necessarily strong -- if there's a break, we won't hear of it unless somebody is catastrophically stupid -- it is analogous to those old safes that included 10 pounds of thermite for erry pound of benjie, torch it and you lose whole thing
1867742;1540920083;asciilifeform;imho bitcoin is a quite poor cryptological 'mine canary' for this reason.
1867743;1540920380;mircea_popescu;possibly.
1867744;1540921123;asciilifeform;same observation arguably can be applied to errything else tho, so i'm not entirely sure it's a useful one.
1867745;1540921472;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, we agree on the result but not on the formula, lol; your formula says e(2)=p(2) xor k(1)*p(1) xor k(2)*p(2) xor k(3)*p(3) xor k(4)*p(4) right?
1867746;1540921554;diana_coman;and then I read the rest of the log; ofc
1867747;1540921886;mircea_popescu;as best i can tell -- the only options are either keep using serpent or else use some kind of recursive hash otp
1867748;1540921897;mircea_popescu;like keccak(keccak(bla+salt))
1867749;1540921934;mircea_popescu;diana_coman did we end up with an ada impl of mersene twister at some juncture ?
1867750;1540921940;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, yes
1867751;1540921943;diana_coman;for the udp tester
1867752;1540922067;mircea_popescu;i suppose that could be the backup alternative then : if we end up ditching serpent, we use a rsa packet to move ~1.4kb of entropy for initializing the mt, and then use mt generated pads for a cipher.
1867753;1540922150;asciilifeform;iirc you can trivially extract next-state of mt if you get 1
1867754;1540922183;asciilifeform;( and from there, whole chain )
1867755;1540922256;asciilifeform;gotta point out, serpent aint dead yet
1867756;1540922327;mircea_popescu;yeah ; and it'd better not be, the floor keeps crumbling underneath.
1867757;1540923307;asciilifeform;in unrelated minor lulz, discovered yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865517 : 213.148.193.153
1867758;1540923307;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 22:46 asciilifeform: i suspected shitfork, when realized that the 501 blox gotta be a few kB most, ea. -- my pipe couldn't disgorge 501 human-sized blox in <2sec
1867759;1540923321;asciilifeform;evidently there's a number of these.
1867760;1540923347;mircea_popescu;a grosse.
1867761;1540923364;asciilifeform;more interestingly, there was even 1 of 10/30/18 17:05:41 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED from peer 213.148.193.153
1867762;1540923374;asciilifeform;i.e. it's not simply an alt
1867763;1540923391;asciilifeform;but a reasonably fresh, evidently, forkism
1867764;1540923477;asciilifeform;aactually strike that, CheckBlock is called prior to bastardization litmus, http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1232
1867765;1540923506;asciilifeform;tests for outrageous timestamps, sad pow, mutilated tx format
1867766;1540923569;asciilifeform;( i'm not actually certain why we do this test prior to bastardism, there's 0 point running any test on a block that fails do-we-have-its-father litmus . really this is leftover logic from removal of orphanage )
1867767;1540923655;asciilifeform;btw, BingoBoingo , re waaay upstack -- trb 'throws bastards' from the simple reason that it doesn't keep track of peer heights, and ~always~ retransmits any block that it gets and happily welds to longchain
1867768;1540923660;asciilifeform;to errybody.
1867769;1540924726;BingoBoingo;So, in local bullshit it turns out the closed Zoo still has fucking animals https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/murio-clorinda-la-hipopotama-del-zoologico-de-villa-dolores-20181030115114
1867770;1540924745;asciilifeform;lolwat!
1867771;1540924780;BingoBoingo;Apparently the bum encampment that is the closed Zoo actually still has exotic animals including this recently deceased hippo
1867772;1540924973;asciilifeform;i gotta wonder what else they've got; maybe also a lunapark where only the employees get to ride
1867773;1540925012;*;asciilifeform definitely tried to go to this zoo, gate was padlocked erry single day
1867774;1540925025;BingoBoingo;Linked stories at the bottom suggest back in 2016 while they were still closed, some kangaroos were stolen
1867775;1540926518;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/usg-communications-commisioner-advocates-centralization-and-crackdown-on-unauthorized-radio-frequency-use/ << Qntra - USG Communications Commisioner Advocates Centralization And Crackdown on "Unauthorized" Radio Frequency Use
1867776;1540927309;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: phunphakt -- in ye olde su, radio 'hooliganism' (as it was called) was rampant, almost rite of passage for electronics experimenters, and penalty was pretty soft by current-day reich's standards (generally limited to confiscation of the gear. which was made from junkyardwars at any rate, so not particularly big deal)
1867777;1540928477;BingoBoingo;My impression is generally Soviet Union penalties post Stalin were soft compared to current Obamareich
1867778;1540928543;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: largely troo. with the exception of a few speshul trainflakes kept in 'психушка' , max term of imprisonment was 15y -- for instance.
1867779;1540928675;asciilifeform;to merit shooting, had to be either spy, or serial killer, or at least illicit gold dealer (1 afaik case , under hruschev)
1867780;1540929051;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ok, how about this : let K being the key n bits long (say 512), and let f(x) = 2 * K[0] * x ^ n + 3 * K[1] * x ^ n-1 + 5 * K[2] * x ^ n-2 + 7 * K[3] * x ^ n-3 + 11 * K[4] * x ^ n-4 +...+ 3643 * K[n-2] * x ^ 2 + 3659 * K[n-1] * x + 3659. f(x) will produce a pile of bits, this pile is cut in half and xored together, the result is cut in half again. one such half is returned as the prng output ; the other such half
1867781;1540929051;mircea_popescu; is cut up into as many whole chunks of equal size to K as possible and the resut of their xoring together is the new K. stateful prng.
1867782;1540929100;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: loox, at least superficially, like a ok prng (for tetris at least). but how didja get the idea that it's fit for cipher ?
1867783;1540929119;mircea_popescu;i didn't, i'm just fucking about.
1867784;1540929197;asciilifeform;lolk
1867785;1540929403;mircea_popescu;to use it as a cipher i'd do a K exchange and then f(P-1) xor P = E. where P-1 is the previous message.
1867786;1540929550;asciilifeform;these are very easy to make up.
1867787;1540929562;asciilifeform;much moar difficult to say whether is worth anyffing.
1867788;1540929566;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1867789;1540929573;*;mircea_popescu will now desist.
1867790;1540929594;mircea_popescu;though it seems on some level this is a religious behaviour, "very easy to come up with ideas very hard to evaluate them". well... something's defo broken then!
1867791;1540930389;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, uhm, I thought that there was at least ONE thing clear: namely that "something's defo broken"
1867792;1540931305;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1867793;1540931901;deedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2632 << Loper OS - Terms -88 of the Serpent Ciphers Key Schedule in Algebraic Form.
1867794;1540931916;asciilifeform;lol deedbot hates ellipsisen
1867795;1540931993;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, diana_coman ^ still needs the elementary reduction massage, but i went ahead an' posted, in case somebody wants.
1867796;1540932087;asciilifeform;if we end up not breaking the thing, it'll go straight to generating the verilog logic for the key unroller.
1867797;1540932143;mircea_popescu;pure xor form. nice.
1867798;1540932234;asciilifeform;still needs alge-massager to turn all the e.g. (XOR 1 b21 e21 g21 (XOR 0 a10 d10 f10 h10)) into (XOR 1 b21 e21 g21 a10 d10 f10 h10)
1867799;1540932682;diana_coman;it actually helps (with following the whole thing) to see this intermediate step too (rather than just directly the fully massaged version)
1867800;1540932684;asciilifeform;really, 1) flatten the tree 2) group the constants together 3) xor the constants into one 4) eliminate duplicate terms
1867801;1540932693;asciilifeform;diana_coman: is wai i posted
1867802;1540932700;diana_coman;aha, thank you!
1867803;1540932714;asciilifeform;lemme know if any part of it dunmakesense.
1867804;1540932759;diana_coman;will do
1867805;1540933714;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not like xor is associative, is it ?
1867806;1540933715;mircea_popescu;[bit:31] = (a18 x a28 x a30 x a8 x a9 x b19 x b29 x b7 x c18 x c30 x c8 x d18 x d19 x d28 x d29 x d30 x d8 x d9 x e19 x e29 x e30 x e7 x e8 x f18 x f19 x f28 x f30 x f8 x f9 x g19 x g29 x g30 x g7 x g9 x h18 x h28 x h30 x h8 x h9) ?
1867807;1540933724;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is, try it
1867808;1540933752;asciilifeform;entirely associative, and transitive.
1867809;1540933758;mircea_popescu;ah yes, obviously.
1867810;1540933764;asciilifeform;an' commutative.
1867811;1540933766;mircea_popescu;ok, i need to go get some sleep, this is getting ridoinculous.
1867812;1540933773;asciilifeform;nighty
1867813;1540933844;diana_coman;asciilifeform, fwiw this code is actually so nice to read; and no, I don't see any trouble with it nor anything that doesn't make sense (I did have to search for some of the lisp routines but that's just my lack of lisp-fu and it was easy enough to find out what they do more clearly)
1867814;1540933854;asciilifeform;diana_coman: yay
1867815;1540934760;asciilifeform;diana_coman: later tonight i'ma post the version with reduction
1867816;1540934869;asciilifeform;... at the end of which, we will know if all of the key bits actually appear in the expansion.
1867817;1540934874;asciilifeform;which will answer the orig puzzler.
1867818;1540934914;asciilifeform;we will also know if some appear more times than others, i.e. producing a nonflat keyspace.
1867819;1540934927;asciilifeform;(contrary to author's claim of entirely-flat keyspace)
1867820;1540934983;asciilifeform;and, if we feel like it, can apply the sboxes of http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.13307-87.14692 and produce a 100%-algebraic statement of the entire key inflater.
1867821;1540935319;*;diana_coman will certainly read
1867822;1540935363;asciilifeform;if all (a0..a31, b0..b31, ...) appear in the expansion, then serpent aint actually braindamaged in the sense originally contemplated by asciilifeform .
1867823;1540935385;diana_coman;aha; let's see
1867824;1540935394;asciilifeform;( then we can say it is only brainamaged in the sense all sboxisms are )
1867825;1540935738;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1867826;1540943135;mod6;Alright folks, my node is back up.  And have re-added my list to the advertised republican nodes.
1867827;1540943154;mod6;*my node to the list of
1867828;1540943416;asciilifeform;congrats mod6
1867829;1540944750;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other pantsuit lulz, the emerging convention is to call trump "drumpf". because, see, if someone does, then the repressed awkwardsuckers in the audience know it's SAFE!!!
1867830;1540944769;asciilifeform;lol emerging, kako was doin' it in '16
1867831;1540944773;mircea_popescu;in-group signalling, obviously someone not in-group would not say "drumpf" just like that.
1867832;1540944781;asciilifeform;( for all i know, he devised it )
1867833;1540944802;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform eh, for every eventual hot topic item there's 5k groups-of-friends who think they invented it.
1867834;1540944827;asciilifeform;lolyes
1867835;1540944838;asciilifeform;but funnily enuff that was the only place i ever saw it, prior to mircea_popescu's mention
1867836;1540944856;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying the pantsuit's creative or anything. i'm just amused at how fucking awkward they can get, srsly, need special words for things that only other similar idiots would be using so as not to risk conversation with someone not similarly fucktarded ?
1867837;1540944917;mircea_popescu;it's exactly like an imaginary situation where the math flunkies agree to call exponentiation "expies", strictly for the reason that this way, if anyone ever says "expies" they can SAFELY (!!!!! important point here !!!!) go into a "omfg how about those expies they're so incomprehensible!!!" routine.
1867838;1540944933;BingoBoingo;Eh, the drumpf thing was a John Oliver cancer. The reason has been resurrected now is the NPC meme people are using it to mock the anti trumpers. It's all part of dismissing pantsuit complaints as "Orange Man Bad"
1867839;1540944942;mircea_popescu;the "safety" being, of course, little expectation to run into a "wtf are you on about, you just multiply, what's to understand".
1867840;1540944973;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo right, which is the point : minority group is opressed and wanks accordingly.
1867841;1540945005;BingoBoingo;Yup, cucked by their own old wank
1867842;1540945018;mircea_popescu;"nobody understands us" and "our very existence is threatened, inasmuch as it entirely consists of... our inability to handle broad disinterest wrt our dysfunction".
1867843;1540945060;mircea_popescu;i suppose the only moral being... "opressed groups are opressed for a fucking reason".
1867844;1540945170;mod6;Can anyone confirm that 37.59.43.190 and 199.204.187.186 nodes are down?
1867845;1540945207;asciilifeform;mod6: confirmed dead
1867846;1540945253;mod6;Thanks.  Removed from list.
1867847;1540945332;asciilifeform;meanwhile, asciilifeform has sumthing vehehehery speshul, but aint gonna pons&fleischmann it...
1867848;1540945360;mod6;!
1867849;1540945371;asciilifeform;errybody luvvs surprised tho.
1867850;1540945379;asciilifeform;*surprises
1867851;1540945399;mod6;not all of us XD
1867852;1540945404;asciilifeform;lol
1867853;1540949564;mod6;Does anyone know if the current eucrypt tree uses keccak hashes in its vpatches?
1867854;1540949812;mod6;Ok, nevermind, they don't seem to be.  But I just simply pressed the genesis and it barfed on a README file:
1867855;1540949824;mod6;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/z10un/?raw=true
1867856;1540949836;mod6;Can anyone else confirm?  Maybe I did something wrong or have the wrong file?
1867857;1540949888;mod6;diana_coman's signature seems to match, as the genesis gets loaded into the flow just fine...
1867858;1540949903;mod6;here's my sha512 of the eucrypt_genesis.vpatch: sha512sum patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch
1867859;1540949906;mod6;671a59e988d62f0c262ff9a1851b44c243d60cb7ee21b8c6f8c64338461eb9b654f002bebed0e162a5631ce5482d584e8bd5964405204258bcb9347345c66f5c  patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch
1867860;1540950060;mod6;no huge worries, was just getting prepped to start looking at keccak, and to see if there is a stand-alone binary for keccak
1867861;1540950767;mircea_popescu;yes the current eucrypt tree uses keccak
1867862;1540952526;deedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2645 << Loper OS - Serpent Ciphers Key Schedule in Algebraic Form: with Reduction.
1867863;1540952584;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/pub/serpent/serpent_with_reduction.txt << for the impatient.
1867864;1540952678;asciilifeform;folx with their 3rd eye open, can prolly see where this is going.
1867865;1540952690;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1867866;1540952709;mod6;mircea_popescu: ah, thanks.  interesting that the pressed READMEs before it didn't choke.
1867867;1540953681;mod6;oh, that's right, the patch is pressed, ~then~ each of the files touched is hashed & verified.  makes sense now.
1867868;1540955127;asciilifeform;spoiler : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867822 is mistake
1867869;1540955127;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 21:36 asciilifeform: if all (a0..a31, b0..b31, ...) appear in the expansion, then serpent aint actually braindamaged in the sense originally contemplated by asciilifeform .
1867870;1540955183;asciilifeform;lessee if mircea_popescu or diana_coman beat me to the pill, i'ma not spoil the exact algo just yet.
1867871;1540956096;phf;mod6: just fyi i was able to press eucrypt using v.pl by patching it to use vtools's `ksum' for hashing instead of sha512sum and `vpatch' for pressing instead of gnu. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PZ4hX/?raw=true
1867872;1540956295;phf;the hash verification is not really necessary, since vpatch does it already, but above changes are drop in (could e.g. switch between vtools and legacy with a flag)
1867873;1540956446;mod6;phf: heeey, thanks!
1867874;1540956901;deedbot;http://bimbo.club/?p=71 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/25/2018
1867875;1540970809;diana_coman;mod6, current eucrypt does use keccak hashes, yes
1867876;1540972077;diana_coman;mod6, also, re running keccak by itself - have a look at the tests that I provided for it in eucrypt as they work effectively as an "example of running keccak" too
1867877;1540991382;asciilifeform;ohai diana_coman
1867878;1540991438;diana_coman;hi asciilifeform !
1867879;1540991948;asciilifeform;diana_coman: serpent lulz make sense thus far ?
1867880;1540992032;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I did not yet have the time to look at it in more detail, I just skimmed through the results
1867881;1540992053;asciilifeform;you'll find that it's pretty simple, imho
1867882;1540992482;mircea_popescu;aww poor alf!
1867883;1540992490;asciilifeform;hm?
1867884;1540992496;mircea_popescu;listen, it's getting read, dun worry about it.
1867885;1540992511;asciilifeform;hey no hurry
1867886;1540997716;mod6;diana_coman: ah, thanks for the info!  will check it out :]
1867887;1540997808;asciilifeform;meanwhile , in the world of the c-machine, https://archive.is/e5xD9 >> 'curl contains a heap out of buffer read vulnerability... stderr... formats the output to wrap at 80 columns. The wrap logic is however flawed, so if a single word in the message is itself longer than 80 bytes the buffer arithmetic calculates the remainder wrong and will end up reading behind the end of the buffer' etc
1867888;1540999635;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, had thought, in re 'candidates for asicization', http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865459 mechanism prolly oughta be on the list.
1867889;1540999635;a111;Logged on 2018-10-23 17:54 asciilifeform: the idea being, that nobody lacking a copy of the pad can cause you to wind yours forward.
1867890;1540999713;asciilifeform;i.e., ic that when paired with another of its kind, and rng, saves internally the pad; but won't simply disgorge it unless in a synchronous link with the item it was synced with, as described in the algo.
1867891;1540999928;asciilifeform;hypothetically, it'd be safe to transport, or even mail; it is impractical to capture,saw open,dump contents,bake a substitute with the copied pad,and deliver to unsuspecting counterparty, inside the space of day or two. esp. if you make the pad live in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1656777 sram, rather than flash .
1867892;1540999928;a111;Logged on 2017-05-16 01:51 asciilifeform: if i were drawing up such a thing, i'd even have the sram work in such a way that 10 is a 1 on odd clock cycles, 0 on even
1867893;1541000255;Mocky;wouldn't that require sync'd clock cycles?
1867894;1541000262;asciilifeform;nope
1867895;1541000324;asciilifeform;Mocky: if you're speaking of the 'remanence-free sram' -- think of it as a 1950s-style delay line store, with 1 (on-die) delay line per bit ( and not even necessarily, each can store multiple bits )
1867896;1541000372;asciilifeform;thing is powered at all times, so it knows what the relation b/w the primary clock and the phases is.
1867897;1541000403;asciilifeform;but you dun get the charge accumulation that makes for successful 'freeze with ln2 and read' .
1867898;1541000456;asciilifeform;( and no, you can't buy remanence-free sram, afaik, off-the-shelf, i devised it and it is published only in the l0gz.)
1867899;1541000521;asciilifeform;i suspect it's the closest thing physically possible to saw-proof sram 'safe'.
1867900;1541000607;asciilifeform;cutting into the ic package, probing, etc. will change the capacitance and throw the lines out of phase.
1867901;1541000648;asciilifeform;( for bonus, sync the units after you've already cast'em into bricks of lead )
1867902;1541000699;asciilifeform;will look 'great' to xray, too.
1867903;1541000744;asciilifeform;( even answering the q of just where inside the brick the thing is, without heat stress or saw, will be painful )
1867904;1541001044;asciilifeform;naturally this aint exactly commercially-hotstuff, it suffers from same problem as my other items, e.g. FG, namely that there's maybe 100 thinking people alive total, i.e. folx who could reliably distinguish the real thing from 9000x-cheaper imitation liquishit.
1867905;1541001056;asciilifeform;so i have nfi how one'd make it a +ev biznis-proposition.
1867906;1541001076;asciilifeform;it's a (gedanken-)-faberge.
1867907;1541001266;asciilifeform;the problem faced by even fella with a first-class head, when buying 'crypto iron', is a 9000x hypertrophied instance of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867790 boojum -- to know what he's getting, he is stuck with much ~harder~ problem than even original maker had in making the artifact to begin with !
1867908;1541001266;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 19:59 mircea_popescu: though it seems on some level this is a religious behaviour, "very easy to come up with ideas very hard to evaluate them". well... something's defo broken then!
1867909;1541001323;asciilifeform;wot/chain-of-custody is the only known pill, and it still comes pretty shaky guarantees.
1867910;1541001395;asciilifeform;for instance, i have here 2 FG units i flew ~back~ from pizarro, they had been pawed by randos when ben_vulpes had his customs debacle. in so far as i can tell , they have orig firmware still, and by erry possible test they are virginal, but even i cannot say whether they're 'still FG' or not !
1867911;1541001490;asciilifeform;some variant of the 'nail polish' trick, would help, but not cure, this headache.
1867912;1541001596;asciilifeform;it's an open problem, and will prolly forever remain, in some sense, open; but afaik the gold standard is still a powered, disturbance-sensitive storage on-die.
1867913;1541002143;asciilifeform;currently i'm not even certain that makes sense to ~sell~ a crypto iron; possibly a truly-serious user ~must~ make 'his own' , out of standardized, exhaustively-testable, and -- most importantly -- mix&match-able, components, from a design he has read & understood.
1867914;1541002304;asciilifeform;wot + hand-delivery cuts, in a way, this knot. but not practical for konsoomer/heathen iron, sadly.
1867915;1541002382;asciilifeform;*that it makes sense
1867916;1541002569;asciilifeform;if somehow FG were to catch on with the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866428 crowd, the situation will not differ so much from the current : coupla 100 people will have the genuine article, and 9,999,999 sad folx will have physically-similar item made in hong kong to washington's specs. and i couldn't do a thing about it.
1867917;1541002569;a111;Logged on 2018-10-26 16:56 mircea_popescu: ie, they'll buy your used underwear to wear on head just as well.
1867918;1541007328;deedbot;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/31/smg-comms-chapter-5-rsa-with-oaep-from-ada/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 5: RSA with OAEP from Ada
1867919;1541007451;asciilifeform;'The new Ada code simply reads from a Fuckgoats that it expects to be available at a pre-set path, *already initialised*1 and ready to read from' << ha, nice
1867920;1541007484;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes, you win!
1867921;1541007607;diana_coman;"Over the next few days I started to meet people and collect the items I’d need to survive. " - ahahaha, that guide to Doha-zone was nice to read; how's that quest going?
1867922;1541007613;diana_coman;Mocky, ^
1867923;1541007700;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the caveat re my method, is that i do not presently know how to ~portably~ 'lock' the thing ( so >1 process dun eat from it )
1867924;1541007703;Mocky;I have more blog posts churning thru the pipeline atm, mostly written for some days now. photo handling jammed up my process
1867925;1541007712;asciilifeform;( it goes straight to the /tmp files horrors )
1867926;1541007718;asciilifeform;the q, i mean.
1867927;1541007793;diana_coman;asciilifeform, myeah; part of the reason why I did not just nuke the C thing but rather kept them both in there at least for now
1867928;1541007820;asciilifeform;'The "No Implicit Conditionals" restriction for the whole smg comms had to be discarded because of the Keccak...' << this is odd; is there an array concatenation in keccak ?
1867929;1541007824;asciilifeform;cuz that's typically why
1867930;1541007831;diana_coman;lemme find the line, 1 sec
1867931;1541007834;asciilifeform;( using the ada ampersand notation )
1867932;1541007944;diana_coman;asciilifeform, this line: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/18/eucrypt-chapter-6-keccak-transformations/#selection-159.735-159.812
1867933;1541007970;asciilifeform;ahahaha it's the implicit div0 check
1867934;1541007994;asciilifeform;can Z_Length be 0 ever, legitimately ?
1867935;1541008008;asciilifeform;if it can't, you can narrow the type and be rid of the implicit 'is-div0?' check
1867936;1541008020;asciilifeform;(at least on my old gnat, this worked reliably)
1867937;1541008035;asciilifeform;loox like it's a naked modular type right nao
1867938;1541008088;asciilifeform;Keccak_L: constant := 6;  Z_Length: constant := 2**Keccak_L; << so it's 64
1867939;1541008091;diana_coman;myeah, type is modular; z_length is a constant though and ugh, not 0 because then you have no state to talk of
1867940;1541008125;diana_coman;it's literally the depth of the "cube" that is the state of bits for keccak
1867941;1541008143;asciilifeform;diana_coman: so you aint gotta mod; an integer mod 64 is simply same as & 63 .
1867942;1541008149;asciilifeform;bang, nomoar div0 check.
1867943;1541008173;diana_coman;myeah, but not as clear wtf goes on in there
1867944;1541008214;asciilifeform;and you dun have to hardcoad it; simply replace Output(X, Y) := Rotate_Left(Input(X,Y), ( (T+1)*(T+2)/2) mod Z_Length); with Output(X, Y) := Rotate_Left(Input(X,Y), ( (T+1)*(T+2)/2) and (2**Keccak_L - 1));
1867945;1541008224;asciilifeform;arithmetically same, and nomoar div.
1867946;1541008258;asciilifeform;can define as an inlined op, for clarity, also.
1867947;1541008322;asciilifeform;ada treats any statement that divides by anything other than an immediate constant ( incl. / or mod by a named constant ) as potentially div0-barfing
1867948;1541008324;asciilifeform;and inserts the check
1867949;1541008339;asciilifeform;'No Implicit Conditionals' bans this, with the result of banning such forms
1867950;1541008372;diana_coman;makes sense; I'm adding the note there and the ref for now
1867951;1541008389;asciilifeform;( the only other operation i know to do this, is array concatenation ; hence my earlier suspicion )
1867952;1541008439;diana_coman;I don't have any array concatenation, no
1867953;1541008449;asciilifeform;implicit conditionals aint evil per se , tho ; i banned them in ffa specifically as they get in the way of constanttimeism, is all
1867954;1541008504;asciilifeform;there is no particular reason why ~erry~ proggy has to have the same pragma fascism as ffa ( and in fact i've written several that cannot function under that set of constraints, e.g. the mmap thing requires System.Address )
1867955;1541008549;asciilifeform;it is one of the reasons why i section my routines into staticlinkable libs , rather than 'take this and cut&paste'
1867956;1541008562;diana_coman;asciilifeform, certainly; my approach so far though was simply "start with the fascist restrictions since they are available and then - if and when needed, explicitly relax them"
1867957;1541008567;asciilifeform;that way it is possible to write a piece under 1 set of constraints, and then permit it to run in a larger proggy with looser ones
1867958;1541008579;asciilifeform;diana_coman: aha, i use same method
1867959;1541008587;diana_coman;there is some benefit to even knowing what you need to relax and why
1867960;1541008637;asciilifeform;diana_coman: there's a gnat flag that actually gives you all permissible constraints, whether you knew about them or not, that can be then thrown straight into restrict.adc
1867961;1541008647;asciilifeform;but i dun recall from my head; it is in the logs somewhere
1867962;1541008675;diana_coman;I missed that somehow; I'll dig it up
1867963;1541008676;asciilifeform;( keep in mind that it will give you all the ones that your ~particular~ gnat supports; but nao that we have the makings of a cemented gnat, this is less of a concern )
1867964;1541008874;asciilifeform;diana_coman: https://archive.is/RzmUN#selection-24409.0-24423.146 << found
1867965;1541009184;asciilifeform;diana_coman: re: ToOctets / ToBitstream / etc -- do you know that ada has 'variant records' (similar to ye olde C 'unions' , but with typechecking ) , you could in principle use'em and avoid the conversions, for slightly cleaner proggy
1867966;1541009208;asciilifeform;( not necessarily worth sweating over given as you already wrote it , but for next time )
1867967;1541009258;diana_coman;I know of variant records but I did not think of them for the conversion really
1867968;1541009268;asciilifeform;not critical imho
1867969;1541009314;asciilifeform;but pointing out for the l0gz, that there's a 'ecologically clean' variant for those.
1867970;1541009427;asciilifeform;( c 'unions' are sad cuz c dun give you any portable knob for cementing where the bits actually go; ada's records are sane, you can specify the exact location of erry element, paddings, endianisms, bit orders )
1867971;1541009449;asciilifeform;anyway -- minor nitpick.
1867972;1541009513;diana_coman;I think I do suffer from a bit of C-induced anti-unions bias
1867973;1541009517;asciilifeform;diana_coman: rng.adb / Get_Octets -- you'll prolly want a timeout there
1867974;1541009530;asciilifeform;otherwise the result of a dead/unplugged FG is simply halted box
1867975;1541009549;diana_coman;asciilifeform, so far I'd rather have halted box than continuing
1867976;1541009559;asciilifeform;diana_coman: metoo, i had to breathe ada for yrs before working all the c sad out of my follicles
1867977;1541009571;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ideally you want to at least know why halted.
1867978;1541009583;asciilifeform;( and if because fg -- which? fg )
1867979;1541009603;diana_coman;true; this will have to be addressed at some point with some sane way of handling, yes
1867980;1541009608;asciilifeform;granted i've yet to witness a dead fg. but i dun have a written guarantee from the gods, that they can never die, no
1867981;1541009623;asciilifeform;fwiw i've witnessed the death of usb ports per se.
1867982;1541009793;asciilifeform;in very other noose, found another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867757 , 27.76.232.151 . making for 4 known shitslingers , of this type , on btc net
1867983;1541009793;a111;Logged on 2018-10-30 18:15 asciilifeform: in unrelated minor lulz, discovered yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865517 : 213.148.193.153
1867984;1541009962;asciilifeform;http://ossasepia.com/2018/10/31/smg-comms-chapter-5-rsa-with-oaep-from-ada/#selection-155.1206-155.2305 << example of where i'dve used an ada record
1867985;1541009995;asciilifeform;but i'ma stop picking on diana_coman's item for nao
1867986;1541010360;asciilifeform;will note, tho, re fg timeouts -- the most likely waiting-on-fg scenario is starvation, rather than outright hangage , thing shits out 7kB/s per spec, 8 on a good day; i expect it will be the limiting reactant re how many rsa msgs / sec can be produced
1867987;1541010376;asciilifeform;you will want a way to make use of 2+ fg (iirc you already have 2 on ea. machine)
1867988;1541010422;asciilifeform;( iirc symmetric keys are supplied, per protocol, by client, so not an issue there )
1867989;1541015371;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/10/mass-apple-idevice-failures-possible-in-helium-rich-environments/ << Qntra - Mass Apple iDevice Failures Possible In Helium Rich Environments
1867990;1541015373;BingoBoingo;^ Shirley there have to be entertainment applications for this
1867991;1541015863;asciilifeform;lol!!
1867992;1541016195;asciilifeform;in other lulz, mircea_popescu , diana_coman , http://www.loper-os.org/pub/holyshit.png << guess what.
1867993;1541016236;asciilifeform;^ prolly can guess what this is.
1867994;1541016857;BingoBoingo;Less than full actual keyspace?
1867995;1541017854;asciilifeform;noshit
1867996;1541017915;Mocky;lol, so mean!
1867997;1541017968;asciilifeform;it's a matrix of http://www.loper-os.org/pub/serpent/serpent_with_reduction.txt , prepped for gaussian row-reduction ( xor-sat is in p! motherfuckers ) with horiz. axis -- key bitz, vertical -- expansion bits...
1867998;1541018055;asciilifeform;last col. is the constant term of the row.
1867999;1541018192;asciilifeform;for example, 32 lines of the bitmap represent the first 32bit word of the 528-byte inflatolade.
1868000;1541018195;diana_coman;oh huh, asciilifeform's dangerous art
1868001;1541018195;asciilifeform;*top 32
1868002;1541018206;asciilifeform;diana_coman: loox pretty grim, imho
1868003;1541018211;diana_coman;quite
1868004;1541018235;diana_coman;hence the "dangerous" ; perhaps "grim art" even more to the point...
1868005;1541018268;asciilifeform;i expect the gaussation itself could take coupla wks on dulap, once the req'd pieces are cut and glued
1868006;1541018329;asciilifeform;but simply from the pic you can already see, with naked eye , 'floor tiles'
1868007;1541018352;diana_coman;myeah, I was just admiring them
1868008;1541018368;asciilifeform;these , in a hash output, is.. i lack the words
1868009;1541018473;asciilifeform;( no prizes for guessing why holyshit.png doesn't appear in the orig 'serpent' paper, or the mountain of 'analysis' ... )
1868010;1541018480;diana_coman;well, we'll have at least serpent-tiles for interior design
1868011;1541018490;asciilifeform;lol
1868012;1541018525;diana_coman;it could be an euloran item, what!
1868013;1541018531;diana_coman;lol
1868014;1541018544;asciilifeform;i'm reminded of the chessboards they used to print in sov newspapers. after a good rain.
1868015;1541018956;asciilifeform;it's funny, if only to me -- if author wanted to make the keyspace == 2**256, all he would have had to do is to drop a copy of the 256bit key into the expansion. but i can already picture the fatlogic, 'oh noez, that wouldn't do, will leak key via plaintext cuz not whitened'
1868016;1541019904;asciilifeform;btw if it aint obvious -- the denser the horiz. path across the pic, the ~easier~ it is to find alt-solutions to that line of the expansion (i.e. rearrangements of the input key that yield the same mod-2 summation when multiplied with that row of the matrix )
1868017;1541020123;asciilifeform;so for bit 0 of w, h21 ^ f21 ^ d21 ^ a21 ^ 1 == w0, and if you want that w0 they gotta sum to same thing mod-2 , no matter what. but for the ~last~ bit of W, you have 79 whole slots ! that still only gotta add up to same thing mod-2 ! many more variants .
1868018;1541020374;BingoBoingo;http://mocky.org/Hostile-Work-Environment/ << tyvm for the intel Mocky
1868019;1541020425;diana_coman;lmao, I thought that was qatar's halloween pic!
1868020;1541020485;asciilifeform;hm trinque is Mocky currently in the deedbot rotation ? i missed his last 2 posts apparently
1868021;1541020617;asciilifeform;'First of all you can’t get power to charge your laptop. Anywhere. Electrical outlets in customer areas: it’s just not done here' << sounds like the ultimate trial for us x60 folk
1868022;1541020748;trinque;sorry for my absence lately, getting over the flu.
1868023;1541020764;trinque;asciilifeform: nope, link?
1868024;1541020766;asciilifeform;trinque: wb. yer in for some pretty lulzy l0gz, imho
1868025;1541020779;asciilifeform;trinque: http://mocky.org/feed.xml loox like
1868026;1541020789;*;trinque has been following the snake hunt as mental bandwidth permits, will be rereading
1868027;1541020792;trinque;ty
1868028;1541020856;BingoBoingo;<trinque> sorry for my absence lately, getting over the flu. << May you achieve victory soon
1868029;1541020893;trinque;already got it mostly whipped
1868030;1541020955;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-5-Basic-Crafting/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 5: Basic Crafting
1868031;1541020955;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-6-A-Quick-One/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 6: A Quick One
1868032;1541020955;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-7-A-Quick-One-Two/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 7: A Quick One Two
1868033;1541020955;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Test-Sample/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Test Sample
1868034;1541020955;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-8-Build-24-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 8: Build 24 Release
1868035;1541020955;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-9-Build-25-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 9: Build 25 Release
1868036;1541020956;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Ashby-Gap-Seriously-Soaked-Dicks-Dome-Confederate-Ghost/ << Mocky.org - Ashby Gap Seriously Soaked, Dicks Dome, Confederate Ghost
1868037;1541020956;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Meanwhile-in-Perfectly-Stacked/ << Mocky.org - Meanwhile in Perfectly Stacked
1868038;1541020957;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-10-Build-27-Mangled-Miner/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 10: Build 27 Mangled Miner
1868039;1541020957;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-11-Build-28-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 11: Build 28 Release
1868040;1541020958;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-12-Build-29-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 12: Build 29 Release
1868041;1541020958;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-13-Build-30-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 13: Build 30 Release
1868042;1541020959;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-14-Build-31-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 14: Build 31 Release
1868043;1541020959;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-15-Build-32-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 15: Build 32 Release
1868044;1541020960;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Just-Be-Yourself/ << Mocky.org - Just Be Yourself
1868045;1541020960;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-16-Build-33-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 16: Build 33 Release
1868046;1541020961;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-17-Build-34-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 17: Build 34 Release
1868047;1541020961;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Foxybot-Enhancements-Part-18-Build-35-Release/ << Mocky.org - Foxybot Enhancements Part 18: Build 35 Release
1868048;1541020962;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Qatar-Day-Zero/ << Mocky.org - Qatar: Day Zero
1868049;1541020962;deedbot;http://mocky.org/First-Steps-in-Doha/ << Mocky.org - First Steps in Doha
1868050;1541020963;deedbot;http://mocky.org/Hostile-Work-Environment/ << Mocky.org - Hostile Work Environment
1868051;1541021000;trinque;lol, before anybody says anything, somebody previously asked for me to increase the first belch of poasts.
1868052;1541021013;trinque;at any rate, welcome Mocky to the rolls
1868053;1541021015;*;trinque bbl
1868054;1541021091;*;asciilifeform also bbl
1868055;1541021248;mod6;holy smokes, welcome to the rolls :D
1868056;1541021284;mod6;Allow me to paste you guise my password.
1868057;1541026819;mircea_popescu;o look, moxybot
1868058;1541026965;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in detritus from asciilifeform's torture room, 'În această lucrare se prezintă o metodă eficientă de implementare a eliminării Gaussiene pentru o matrice de dimensiuni n·m (m≥n), folosind o arhitectură SIMD ce constă dintr-o matrice de n·m procesoare.' (U.P.B. Sci. Bull., Series C, Vol. 71, Iss. 4, 2009)
1868059;1541027062;asciilifeform;( by a certain mugurel.andreica<at>cs.pub.ro . wonder if spyked et al know the fella )
1868060;1541027100;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-31#1867992 << most kekful./
1868061;1541027100;a111;Logged on 2018-10-31 20:03 asciilifeform: in other lulz, mircea_popescu , diana_coman , http://www.loper-os.org/pub/holyshit.png << guess what.
1868062;1541027128;asciilifeform;ikr?
1868063;1541027131;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1868064;1541027438;asciilifeform;i still dun know what the actual keyspace is, just yet
1868065;1541027514;asciilifeform;loox like finding answer might add up to costing some penies ( or not, lessee, if dulap dun suffice, i'ma lease some cycles on lulazon cluster )
1868066;1541027555;asciilifeform;my current guess is , north of 64bit, but south of 80
1868067;1541027618;asciilifeform;( and dollars to doughnuts , can be narrowed substantially using what leaks out into ciphertext, but that's ~entirely~ separate bag of lulz )
1868068;1541027677;mircea_popescu;speaking of mocky, 11-19-20-?
1868069;1541027719;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pretty sad item.
1868070;1541027741;asciilifeform;noshit
1868071;1541027811;asciilifeform;sad, but better to learn this nao than after gluing it in eulora, or baking asics, etc
1868072;1541027815;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-31#1867924 << ikr, multi-upload has been on the wishlist for mp-wp ever since... hey hanbot how long's it been now ?
1868073;1541027815;a111;Logged on 2018-10-31 17:41 Mocky: I have more blog posts churning thru the pipeline atm, mostly written for some days now. photo handling jammed up my process
1868074;1541027825;mircea_popescu;certainly before baking anything.
1868075;1541027889;mircea_popescu;diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-31#1867935 << he;'s got a solid point there.
1868076;1541027889;a111;Logged on 2018-10-31 17:46 asciilifeform: if it can't, you can narrow the type and be rid of the implicit 'is-div0?' check
1868077;1541028542;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the bigger saddity, is that i dun have anything to offer to plug-in replace 'serpent', nao just as in '16 when mircea_popescu was offering prizes
1868078;1541028567;asciilifeform;( the prng stuff is even easier to demolish, imho it's not worth anyffing )
1868079;1541028765;mircea_popescu;this is pretty fucking sad.
1868080;1541028926;asciilifeform;i had an automata thing, but found that i could not in good conscience play it for the prize, i never found any approach to a proof that it dun have ( as mircea_popescu called ) 'kek state'
1868081;1541028981;asciilifeform;( in general asciilifeform eschews wasting folx's time with questionable algos for which there is no approach to fix )
1868082;1541029041;asciilifeform;the fundamental problem with 'i'ma use turing-complete automaton as hash!' is that ~specifically~ the aspect that makes it seem appealing to begin with, is the very same thing that kills you, it is impossible to prove non-cyclicity
1868083;1541029055;asciilifeform;( reduces to halting problem )
1868084;1541029143;asciilifeform;there's a quite tall pile of pointlessly murdered trees behind ' asciilifeform never brought us a nice symm cipher ! '
1868085;1541029792;mircea_popescu;in other news, this rapidly deteriorating day (it fucking rained on me at the beach, on TOP of serpent being as tight as hilary's ass) was saved by my ... 404 mn ecu pop in Eulora. very high % valuyable shit, too!
1868086;1541029876;asciilifeform;hey, it remains theoretically possible that asciilifeform somehow is mistaken and the gauss-reduced matrix has unique solution...
1868087;1541029902;asciilifeform;at least until i actually do it and it spews forth the pill eqn.
1868088;1541029963;asciilifeform;( i.e. transformator for 256b K that produces K1,...Kn that go to equiv. end states )
1868089;1541030086;asciilifeform;only then, imho, can properly pour cement, put the cross on the tomb.
1868090;1541030201;mod6;Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation's STATE OF BITCOIN ADDRESS: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-October/000317.html
1868091;1541030235;asciilifeform;ohai mod6
1868092;1541030238;mod6;I should have waited 4 more minutes to send -- no big deal, but the statement ended up in the October bin, instead of November.
1868093;1541030248;mod6;hai asciilifeform
1868094;1541030259;asciilifeform;'0x012: pete_dushenski's [R.07] nodes were found to be dead, and thus removed from the list of Advertised Republican Nodes' << ha
1868095;1541030321;asciilifeform;seems like there's a roughly 6 mo. lifetime for folx who fall into 'man alone', sorta how there is 6 mo. ramp-up for n00bz
1868096;1541030372;asciilifeform;iirc shinohai also started prb approx 6mo after his 'what am i doing here' monologue