1831008;1530407682;mod6;Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic: The Bitcoin Foundation presents - The State Of Bitcoin Address for June: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-July/000303.html
1831009;1530418939;asciilifeform;in other archaeological holyfuqs, the wolfmen have ~ergative case~. like basque and chukcha.
1831010;1530418999;asciilifeform;( i.e. can compactly inflect $verb into 'to force [subj] to $verb' )
1831011;1530419046;asciilifeform;another score for 'sapir-mircea_popescu' , seems like.
1831012;1530419380;mircea_popescu;aha
1831013;1530419410;asciilifeform;'enslavative case', thought asciilifeform when he saw this
1831014;1530421219;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/qntra-s-qntr-june-2018-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) June 2018 Report
1831015;1530448749;asciilifeform;in other noose, several 100k 'laughable primes' ( i.e. close to powers of 2, powers of 2 with various value of upper byte, etc ) being generated and added to phuctor 8ball db as we speak ( item discussed in late may, but stuck on conveyor )
1831016;1530448797;asciilifeform;making it happen required buncha painful db tuning, which is nao complete.
1831017;1530454711;BingoBoingo;In other news so far this city of concrete appears to be standing after Uruguay qualified for the quarter finals.
1831018;1530455234;mircea_popescu;i vasn
1831019;1530455240;mircea_popescu;i can't believe germany got sent packing
1831020;1530455260;mircea_popescu;total scam sport, srsly, last phase champs fail to qualify ?
1831021;1530455285;BingoBoingo;Seriously
1831022;1530455321;BingoBoingo;It explains so much about the Uruguayos and the Argentines though. They broke their cultures to succeed in scamsport.
1831023;1530455376;mircea_popescu;heh
1831024;1530455390;mircea_popescu;teh ticos are SO FUCKING PROUD they scored a coupla times...
1831025;1530455398;mircea_popescu;tbh i didn't think they possibly could.
1831026;1530455412;BingoBoingo;The flopping, the timewasting... these are ADVANTAGES in scamsport!
1831027;1530455627;BingoBoingo;Still haven't figured out night photography worth a damn, but the atmosphere here over not getting eliminated was roughly Normal US City wins a league champsionship or College town beats opponent it should not have (Mizzou-Oklahoma 2010) level celebration.
1831028;1530456184;BingoBoingo;On the other hand, my practiced experience knowing how and when to appropriately yell at the tv during sportsballs has helped to build rapport with the locals.
1831029;1530456223;mircea_popescu;lol
1831030;1530456226;mircea_popescu;i bet
1831031;1530458444;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/the-unaided-rape-position/ << Trilema - The unaided rape position
1831032;1530460743;BingoBoingo;And Russia appears to be taking Spain into overtime
1831033;1530461223;Mocky;grayed out o in count, mircea_popescu, nice touch
1831034;1530463895;asciilifeform;!!up kawaiiwhore
1831035;1530463896;deedbot;kawaiiwhore voiced for 30 minutes.
1831036;1530463917;kawaiiwhore;Hello
1831037;1530464000;asciilifeform;kawaiiwhore: あなたは誰ですか ?
1831038;1530464280;asciilifeform;eh.
1831039;1530466119;mircea_popescu;Mocky ikr
1831040;1530466388;asciilifeform;preliminary results : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/INfHc/?raw=true >> shits out 15360 sadprimez; somewhat surprisingly, 0 pops from these.
1831041;1530466458;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vkI5t/?raw=true << the next phase, of that experiment, but this one will take a while.
1831042;1530466592;mircea_popescu;interesting. i was expecting some pops tbh.
1831043;1530466604;asciilifeform;metoo
1831044;1530466610;mircea_popescu;then again, apparently pops are disappopping.
1831045;1530466616;mircea_popescu;see that diana_coman ?
1831046;1530466630;asciilifeform;lolwat
1831047;1530466697;mircea_popescu;pops, dood. it's a thing.
1831048;1530466710;asciilifeform;..in eulora?
1831049;1530466721;mircea_popescu;errywhere!
1831050;1530466740;mircea_popescu;but yes, eulora has a top of pops.
1831051;1530469091;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in other lulz, http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-venezuela-mike-pence-20180628-story,amp.html
1831052;1530470139;asciilifeform;'Trump said he would not rule out a "military option" to deal with Venezuela' << lol!
1831053;1530470195;mircea_popescu;if they have any sense they're buying chinese rockets.
1831054;1530470213;asciilifeform;if they can even still afford chinese rice.
1831055;1530470213;mircea_popescu;will be so fucking hysterical if the 1st us carrier sunk is sunk by venezuela...
1831056;1530470247;mircea_popescu;you kidding ? venezuela is like tmsr-rich.
1831057;1530470257;asciilifeform;hm
1831058;1530470263;mircea_popescu;they're just not giving it to the precious cuntlets, is all.
1831059;1530470277;asciilifeform;i thought its riches were denominated in petro with nobody to pump
1831060;1530470301;asciilifeform;if they were smart, would export the cuntlets, sell to chechens etc
1831061;1530470330;mircea_popescu;word. if i were maduro there'd be co-ed open outcry. but... they're new, and besides orcs, whadda ya want.
1831062;1530470350;mircea_popescu;anyway, not so many are needed to pump, and certainly not of the pantsuit class. mostly afaik russians do it.
1831063;1530470366;asciilifeform;last i knew, ru, cn , contractors, aha
1831064;1530470366;mircea_popescu;venezuela's problem is that shitty oil, kinda ~same as fracking by products. but still worth some money.
1831065;1530470378;asciilifeform;similar to usa's.
1831066;1530470388;mircea_popescu;a cut worse.
1831067;1530470485;*;asciilifeform not expert in subj, knows it mostly via BingoBoingo's retelling
1831068;1530470531;mircea_popescu;anyway, maduro can afford rocketry installation. question is whether he has the sense to, or more of the same "not harvesting the teen cunt for sale because reasons" nonsense.
1831069;1530471649;diana_coman;lol mircea_popescu we'll end up linking phuctor to eulora and have "had his key phucked. Congratulations!"
1831070;1530471658;mircea_popescu;lmao
1831071;1530471665;mircea_popescu;special top, of the eye pop.
1831072;1530471671;diana_coman;quite
1831073;1530471843;phf;!!key asciilifeform
1831074;1530471844;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7.asc
1831075;1530471869;asciilifeform;lol phf it hasn't changed
1831076;1530471971;phf;i'm not nearby my keys
1831077;1530471998;phf;besides, eternal vigilance!!1
1831078;1530472006;asciilifeform;lolk
1831079;1530472045;asciilifeform;'not near keys' lol. perhaps today's the day phf ends up eating a faux key via his isp's brand-new www diddletron.
1831080;1530472242;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if it's so, it's now logged.
1831081;1530472247;asciilifeform;aha
1831082;1530472496;mircea_popescu;in other alf-interest lulz, http://www.techzoom.net/BugBounty
1831083;1530472710;asciilifeform;lol!!
1831084;1530472799;phf;asciilifeform: in "clean gentoo for rockchip" is there particular reason why boot sd card's gpt partition has a 8320 sector break between l1 and l2?
1831085;1530472823;asciilifeform;phf: iirc alignment
1831086;1530472835;asciilifeform;phf: copied the layout blindly from vendor's example shitlinux
1831087;1530472841;phf;aah, kk
1831088;1530472973;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, google et al already 'offer' 150k and moar of 'really, we promise' printolade.
1831089;1530472981;asciilifeform;does'em the expected amt of good.
1831090;1530473045;asciilifeform;( said 'offer', naturally, consists of 'give it to us and maybe we'll think about paying, lol, sucker' )
1831091;1530473362;mircea_popescu;the funny part is that the guy has a very high falooting "oh, cost of doing nothing" bla bla
1831092;1530473381;mircea_popescu;he's gonna pay me in ~dollars~ for ~knowledge~ ? why not pay me in maple leaves for airplane.
1831093;1530473389;asciilifeform;'pay'
1831094;1530473392;mircea_popescu;quite.
1831095;1530473409;asciilifeform;afaik ~no actual dollars 'harmed in the making of this film'(tm)(r)
1831096;1530473482;asciilifeform;see also http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-30#1148635 , http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-14#1163908 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1758226 , elsewhere.
1831097;1530473482;a111;Logged on 2015-05-30 17:32 asciilifeform: hell, i'm personally sitting on a stash of 0days that i can't do anything practical with.
1831098;1530473482;a111;Logged on 2015-06-14 16:31 asciilifeform: i must point out that i have sat on both sides of this (entirely absent) bench. both in search of secrets, ~and~ sitting on a small stash of 0days that will be buried with me
1831099;1530473482;a111;Logged on 2017-12-24 21:38 asciilifeform: also why wouldja 1) help hitler 2) for $ 500 3) that you'd have to suffer from down's syndrome to actually believe will be paid ...?
1831100;1530473638;mircea_popescu;part of the reason for 3) is that ~you don't actually accept fiat in payment~. whether you're aware of this or not. but if you did... take douchebag who does, "works well for him".
1831101;1530473662;asciilifeform;entirely aware
1831102;1530473663;diana_coman;asciilifeform, believe it or not but I have former university colleagues who work for google "because it pays well"; and I'm not at all surprised: while at uni they similarly went to microsoft's local "lab" licking whatever was available to lick; essentially I'd have been surprised if they did NOT work for google /microsoft /similar
1831103;1530473752;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: entirely aware. even if google et al paid as promised ( something i'll believe when i see it with own eyes ) why the fuck would i want to trade a genuinely valuable find for taxolade.
1831104;1530473790;mircea_popescu;taxolade being part of the problem. but rather, it's company scrip, "Can use at company store".
1831105;1530473797;mircea_popescu;"what if your company store doesn't have anything i wish to buy ?"
1831106;1530473801;asciilifeform;i work in the saeculum for the local dubloons, just enuff to pay the bills and keep the experimental budget topped up, like naggum et al. dun mean i particularly care to sell body for it off hours.
1831107;1530473804;asciilifeform;!!up douchebag
1831108;1530473805;deedbot;douchebag voiced for 30 minutes.
1831109;1530473837;douchebag;I'd like to note that hackerone pays out in bitcoin, however it goes through coinbase...take that for what you will.
1831110;1530474676;asciilifeform;i.e. they pay ( promise to pay.. ? ) in lolcoin
1831111;1530474698;asciilifeform;( complete with kycism etc )
1831112;1530474732;asciilifeform;i've nfi what one gotta have in place of brains, in crankcase, to fall for this nonsense.
1831113;1530474891;phf;asciilifeform: it's a casino model, you sit down, play a few rounds, "win" a thousand dollars or so, lose some, win some more, all within a few thousand dollar range. on average you come out in the negative, but it's fun while it's happening.
1831114;1530475005;asciilifeform;!#s feel like a trader
1831115;1530475005;a111;3 results for "feel like a trader", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=feel%20like%20a%20trader
1831116;1530475015;asciilifeform;^ tlp. see also.
1831117;1530477551;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-01#1831056 << This is very credible. From mango weather to beaches to the largest proven reserves of oil, Vzla has the recursos naturales Argentina could only dream of.
1831118;1530477551;a111;Logged on 2018-07-01 18:37 mircea_popescu: you kidding ? venezuela is like tmsr-rich.
1831119;1530477574;mircea_popescu;argentina has recursos humanos.
1831120;1530477600;mircea_popescu;anyway. most of south america is "great place, sadly inhabited" unlike argentina etc, venezuela started to do soemthing about it.
1831121;1530477602;BingoBoingo;I thought Argentina claimed both
1831122;1530477627;mircea_popescu;possibru
1831123;1530477634;BingoBoingo;But yes very inhabited down here
1831124;1530477678;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-23#1829073 << In other news, I can now say that I definitively have an answer as to the issue (and, finally, a solution)
1831125;1530477678;a111;Logged on 2018-06-23 12:46 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-23#1829051 << lobbes didja determine what proggy (e.g. apache?) it was that actually fell down ?
1831126;1530477680;lobbes;Latest blog post with details >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/arming-your-arm64-rockchip-gentoo-against-the-hordes-of-mindless-bots/
1831127;1530477695;mircea_popescu;nice!
1831128;1530477704;lobbes;phew, talk about a learning experience
1831129;1530477738;BingoBoingo;Anyways, new Chinese/Russian missiles in Venezuala would not be a surprise
1831130;1530477960;mircea_popescu;lobbes nice work!
1831131;1530477981;BingoBoingo;Anyways, part of Venezuala's schtick historically is that they have been blockaded by Europeans before over debt defaults. They have to have seen Argentina's clusterfuck with euro missiles over the falklands. Every reason for them to buy from the Chicoms and Ruskies.
1831132;1530477998;BingoBoingo;lobbes: props on the mod_evasive
1831133;1530478005;lobbes;ty all!
1831134;1530478062;lobbes;the real key was the "mod_limitipconn" a bit further down
1831135;1530478164;mircea_popescu;(in case anyone's wondering WHY such a thing would even occur : it's because http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014/ ; and because the expectation that this works is ~so strong~ among the internet-moron-exploiters, they don't even bother to check that indeed mp-wp doesn't permit it. so they'll try and try and try to "ddos" this way.)
1831136;1530478186;lobbes;incidentally, trinque, next time you're in the boiler room plox to try adding http://blog.lobbesblog.com/feed/ once more
1831137;1530479483;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/chinese-auto-giant-byd-building-massive-battery-plant/ << Qntra - Chinese Auto Giant BYD Building Massive Battery Plant
1831138;1530480171;asciilifeform;lobbes: iptables will work if you build the kernel ( there is a tarball with patched kernel on all pizarro rockchip boxen ) with the requisite flags
1831139;1530480176;asciilifeform;prolly i oughta make this standard
1831140;1530480695;mircea_popescu;ytes.
1831141;1530480879;asciilifeform;( the pilot plant kernel was built, believe or not, in hotel, right there on the coffee table, definitely needs some refinement )
1831142;1530488596;asciilifeform;'With a capacity of 24 GWh, this new battery factory should enable them to significantly increase production with a total battery production capacity of 60 GWh' << lulzy, sorta like measuring output of condom factory in liters
1831143;1530488793;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/trilema-log-reading/ << esthlos - Trilema Log Reading
1831144;1530488867;asciilifeform;oh hey
1831145;1530489534;phf;asciilifeform: hey, when booting your rockchip fileset on asus did you get a screen output or just console/cable?
1831146;1530489548;asciilifeform;phf: console, via snake
1831147;1530489555;asciilifeform;screen too
1831148;1530489574;asciilifeform;however i used the evil kernel, haven't yet built a kernel for c101pa
1831149;1530489595;asciilifeform;( not google's, but shitlinux, iirc 'arch' )
1831150;1530489608;phf;haha, i'm following same regression
1831151;1530489608;asciilifeform;it switches on the lcd light, etc
1831152;1530489665;phf;but i finally finished the cable, had time to test that it works, then left home for weekend and naturally forgot the cable. so running blind/not really getting any output
1831153;1530489684;asciilifeform;phf: if you get a black screen, chances are that it didn't boot the kernel
1831154;1530489746;phf;yeah, that's what it looks like. there's minimum activity from the usb on first check, and then blank screen
1831155;1530489766;asciilifeform;phf: it's ~useless to do just about anything with that box without the snake
1831156;1530489782;asciilifeform;( my old userland doesn't give you a working nic, either )
1831157;1530489847;phf;oh i figured as much, but at least i had a chance to organize the workspace. download relevant bits, line up a bunch of discussion pages with mentions of mysterious utilities that take obscure flags
1831158;1530489860;asciilifeform;re: cr50, fwiw i have pretty much whole thing multiply massaged in ida, code/data mapped, got good % of the functions 'usefully' named. but so far no dice in finding a usable hole.
1831159;1530489861;phf;that sort of stuff. i assumed though that at least that arch guide will at least give me a console
1831160;1530489878;asciilifeform;whole escapade mostly succeeded so far in being a time sink for asciilifeform , and little else
1831161;1530489905;phf;did you use the vmlinux.kpart from http://os.archlinuxarm.org/os/ArchLinuxARM-veyron-latest.tar.gz by any chance?
1831162;1530489918;asciilifeform;yes, iirc that very same
1831163;1530489921;phf;kk
1831164;1530489970;phf;well, i'm going to at least get this device to be a decent note taking tool or something along those lines
1831165;1530490069;asciilifeform;for asciilifeform it was originally wanted as a box for travel . really not imho suitable for the purpose, in light of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825108 .
1831166;1530490069;a111;Logged on 2018-06-13 20:56 asciilifeform: '...and this here is the airport wallet inspector master key jack. got a problem, terrorist ?'
1831167;1530490141;phf;right
1831168;1530490143;asciilifeform;and i cannot in good conscience encourage other folx to buy it.
1831169;1530490153;asciilifeform;not until we break it.
1831170;1530490200;asciilifeform;seems like my x60 will have to be made to last for some years.
1831171;1530490238;asciilifeform;( batteries have become a first class bitch, they last for 2-3 months , hundred charges or so and straight to rubbish bin )
1831172;1530490293;asciilifeform;i have a capacitative welder nao, will have to try hand-rebatterying at some point. ( will need to find how to reset the embedded charge monitor thing they've got )
1831173;1530490658;asciilifeform;1 problem is that the li-ion cells on the market, are all ~same chinese liquishit as what's in the aftermarket batteries to begin with
1831174;1530490686;asciilifeform;( you can pay moar for 'japan', but really it's just same cells, re-stickered , genuine ones are ~unobtainium )
1831175;1530490733;asciilifeform;last yr i bought what claimed to be an original unit, from warehouse. croaked in coupla weeks. ( li-ion cells -- don't keep )
1831176;1530490767;asciilifeform;and it ain't as if the thing could run for moar than 2-3 hrs on a charge even when new.
1831177;1530490771;asciilifeform;x86 -- suxx.
1831178;1530490911;phf;i treat the x60 battery purely as a ups, which yes makes it pretty useless for travel. can break it out on amtrak or at a hotel that's pretty much it
1831179;1530490928;mircea_popescu;esthlos re http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/ you've seen http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-13#1770183 ?
1831180;1530490928;a111;Logged on 2018-01-13 07:06 mircea_popescu: !~later tell hanbot here's something you might find useful : http://trilema.com/hanbot/
1831181;1530490966;asciilifeform;phf: yeah, great until you're on a plane, or worthless chinese orc-to-human mains adapter breaks ( happened to asciilifeform in BingoBoingostan ), or sitting on BingoBoingo's roof , or, or.
1831182;1530491065;asciilifeform;phf: interestingly, none of the planes that go to BingoBoingostan, appeared to have sockets ( maybe in firstclass, they do ? asciilifeform wouldn't know , has never sat there )
1831183;1530491195;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831160 << hey, at least you're not out there playing vidja.
1831184;1530491195;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 00:04 asciilifeform: whole escapade mostly succeeded so far in being a time sink for asciilifeform , and little else
1831185;1530491203;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: wassat ?
1831186;1530491209;mircea_popescu;video games.
1831187;1530491211;asciilifeform;aa
1831188;1530491233;mircea_popescu;or on the next level, either ironiy or  sarcasm.
1831189;1530491269;mircea_popescu;(speaking of joni malkovich, isn't it a wonder the instagram kids aren't spelling it "ironiy" iet ?
1831190;1530491367;asciilifeform;i'll admit to having played a crappy www-based game thing where you learn jp, while waking up and the kettle is boiling, but that's the closest thing
1831191;1530491375;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform re battieries, i usually buy/carry a whole bag. whats actually needed is a dual-battery item, so you can hotswap them.
1831192;1530491382;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i had 2 in BingoBoingostan
1831193;1530491384;asciilifeform;didn't help much
1831194;1530491389;mircea_popescu;why not ?
1831195;1530491415;asciilifeform;2nd one , turned out, was breathing its last, suddenly wouldn't even charge, jettisoned it right there
1831196;1530491442;mircea_popescu;2 battery unit as in, plugged at the same time.
1831197;1530491444;asciilifeform;aa
1831198;1530491449;mircea_popescu;i got a bagful of batteries with every laptop anyway
1831199;1530491450;asciilifeform;x60 dun have a 2nd hole
1831200;1530491469;asciilifeform;i have a box with 2nd hole, but it's a modern i7 thing and ugh, and on top of this it weights like 4kg
1831201;1530491475;mircea_popescu;this is what i am saying. i have come to realise, no 2-battery hole, not useful for laptopping./
1831202;1530491486;asciilifeform;asciilifeform was on a mass-constrained mission, recall.
1831203;1530491493;asciilifeform;every gram , in the end, was spoken for.
1831204;1530491500;asciilifeform;even bought a lighter toothbrush..
1831205;1530491548;mircea_popescu;lol
1831206;1530491561;asciilifeform;i wish i were making this up, lol
1831207;1530491571;mircea_popescu;could have just bought one there!
1831208;1530491595;asciilifeform;aha, thought of this already after launched.
1831209;1530491601;asciilifeform;the toothpaste, too..
1831210;1530491624;asciilifeform;could prolly have bought changes of clothing there, even.
1831211;1530491634;asciilifeform;but at certain point 'time is money'
1831212;1530491659;mircea_popescu;also, experience is the traveller's greatest aid.
1831213;1530491684;asciilifeform;( clothing arguably went 'for phree', as it was used to pad the machine crates )
1831214;1530491755;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: overall it was, in 'doom' terminology, a '100% kills' trip, 0 unexpected anyffings, really
1831215;1530491768;mircea_popescu;aha. nice.
1831216;1530491784;asciilifeform;( sadly i ~expect~ the laptop crapola, it has never worked reliably and prolly never will )
1831217;1530491890;asciilifeform;i'd pay a coupla btc for a Trooly Working lappy. if such a thing, in some shangri-la, existed...
1831218;1530491935;asciilifeform;( i.e. <1kg, 12+ hrs of run, 0 nobus, etc etc )
1831219;1530492008;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1831220;1530492630;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831179 << I have seen that item before, would be helpful now that I think about it, but the link returns "page not found"
1831221;1530492630;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 00:22 mircea_popescu: esthlos re http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/ you've seen http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-13#1770183 ?
1831222;1530493345;mircea_popescu;ugh
1831223;1530493384;mircea_popescu;oh god damned it, seems i ended up deleting them
1831224;1530493386;mircea_popescu;bah.
1831225;1530493398;mircea_popescu;hanbot you got copies somewhere ?
1831226;1530493816;mircea_popescu;"My attempted pace will be to read 4 days of logs every day (3 older logs, and the present log). The average log takes me about 30 minutes to read (including following links), and there's a bit over 900 logs to catch up on, so I'll be caught up in 300 days, working 2 hours a day. Starting late is a bitch, ya know." << i am SO FUCKING CURIOUS how this works out!
1831227;1530493832;*;mircea_popescu marks 2019 june on his calendar for the followup
1831228;1530493873;mircea_popescu;(you're in good company, <nikki_ff> reading logs is nice )
1831229;1530494092;mircea_popescu;esthlos another item is that some bullet-addressing mechanism particularly useful on your summary page. put anchors ?
1831230;1530494130;mircea_popescu; broken though patterns << " broken thoughT patterns. tho i have no good way to reference it.
1831231;1530494316;esthlos;hmm yep, I can generate those. let's see...
1831232;1530494776;hanbot;<mircea_popescu> hanbot you got copies somewhere ? << that'd've been wise, but i didn't think to make a copy.
1831233;1530494783;mircea_popescu;o brother.
1831234;1530494788;mircea_popescu;talk about wasted effort.
1831235;1530495952;esthlos;mircea_popescu: added bullet-addressing. hope it helps
1831236;1530496034;esthlos;also, my piece shoulda mentioned: about 900 days since the bitbet blowout, which is my starting place
1831237;1530496342;lobbes;pretty nifty esthlos. Didja see the !tag thread btw? I always thought that would be a good way to approach the 'chronicle the logs' problem >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-21#1437059
1831238;1530496342;a111;Logged on 2016-03-21 07:43 mircea_popescu: hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ?
1831239;1530496609;mircea_popescu;http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2018-06-27_4 << item is actually ancient, 2014s. in fact, predates "FIH", possibly lead to it.
1831240;1530496644;mircea_popescu;certainly as far as i recall one of the "nutty" things alf said early on that signalled him away from the crowd to my eye.
1831241;1530496658;mircea_popescu;esthlos this then leads to the next stop, esthlos bot for reading out the content of a bullet :D
1831242;1530496692;mircea_popescu;this may end up as a sort of modified/improved version of Framedragger_ 's original multi-line log select
1831243;1530496744;mircea_popescu;http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2018-06-17_1 << poor june 17th. DEAD DAY!
1831244;1530497461;lobbes;incoming deed spam.. pardon me:
1831245;1530497463;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/danielpbarron.txt
1831246;1530497465;deedbot;accepted: 1
1831247;1530497469;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/diana_coman.txt
1831248;1530497471;deedbot;accepted: 1
1831249;1530497474;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/hanbot.txt
1831250;1530497477;deedbot;accepted: 1
1831251;1530497481;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/mircea_popescu.txt
1831252;1530497483;deedbot;accepted: 1
1831253;1530497485;lobbes;</spam>
1831254;1530498189;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831241 << well I fell into that trap, huh! sounds like a good next project
1831255;1530498189;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 01:57 mircea_popescu: esthlos this then leads to the next stop, esthlos bot for reading out the content of a bullet :D
1831256;1530498371;lobbes;!!v DB02237A606ED66FE4C0996D5AAD46416B2A7007F8B5FA6F890F15ACD89703FD
1831257;1530498371;deedbot;lobbes rated esthlos 1 << reads log, keeps blog, does useful things. See blog.esthlos.com
1831258;1530498433;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-01#1831138 << ty for this info. Some of my research on subj. indeed hinted at 'rebuild kernel' but it would have taken me a bit more time to actually confirm this for myself
1831259;1530498433;a111;Logged on 2018-07-01 21:22 asciilifeform: lobbes: iptables will work if you build the kernel ( there is a tarball with patched kernel on all pizarro rockchip boxen ) with the requisite flags
1831260;1530498571;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831237 << interesting. seems like implementing the tags wouldn't be hard, but choosing the right ones would be
1831261;1530498571;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 01:52 lobbes: pretty nifty esthlos. Didja see the !tag thread btw? I always thought that would be a good way to approach the 'chronicle the logs' problem >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-21#1437059
1831262;1530498794;esthlos;I'd be happy to be the librarian, though could imagine a system where the bot allows trusted users to "push" summaries or tags. curation is a necessity, but I don't doubt others can produce much better summaries than I
1831263;1530498800;esthlos;anyway, bbl
1831264;1530498870;lobbes;indeed, the benefit of the tag method is that -you- don't have to personally tag each thread (not saying you can or cannot, just... it is an immense amount of effort).
1831265;1530499311;lobbes;with re: to curation, you could record the nick for everyone that submits a tag, then just allow others who view the tagged data to filter based on nick. (Other option of course would be a gpg challenge to submit a tag, but I doubt people will want to unsheathe their key every time they want to tag a thread.)
1831266;1530499346;lobbes;anyways, I'm just spit-balling here. You might find a much better way to do all this
1831267;1530499352;*;lobbes bbl as well
1831268;1530501605;mircea_popescu;esthlos no rush anyway, as one grows it drives the other
1831269;1530501611;mircea_popescu;somewhere in logs /me explains the screw.
1831270;1530502075;lobbes;!!v 41745A7D9187957BC95BA8311835268978C50E6A1C9461BCB90E30F33AC356A3
1831271;1530502078;deedbot;Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.00010742 << http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/mircea_popescu.txt
1831272;1530502633;mircea_popescu;!!pay-invoice lobbes 1
1831273;1530502638;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IwMI9/?raw=true
1831274;1530503121;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-530137.txt
1831275;1530503200;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831265 << nah, the correct approach is to leverage the wot and the v. basically, allow user to give weights to tag authors, obtain a weighted average tag cloud per that spec.
1831276;1530503200;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 02:41 lobbes: with re: to curation, you could record the nick for everyone that submits a tag, then just allow others who view the tagged data to filter based on nick. (Other option of course would be a gpg challenge to submit a tag, but I doubt people will want to unsheathe their key every time they want to tag a thread.)
1831277;1530503340;mircea_popescu;ie, just like the seals directory, except the seals aren't binary but whatever, a number.
1831278;1530504477;trinque;ave1: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ggQ4D/?raw=true << getting this error when I run your latest. any idea where I'm going wrong?
1831279;1530504482;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/06/lobbesbot-autobid-functionality/ << lobbesblog - lobbesbot Autobid Functionality
1831280;1530504482;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/06/mein-kompendium-mp-wp/ << lobbesblog - Mein Kompendium: mp-wp
1831281;1530504482;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/06/getting-php56-and-mysql-to-play-nice-on-arm64-rockchip-gentoo/ << lobbesblog - Getting PHP5.6 and MySql to Play Nice On Arm64 RockChip Gentoo
1831282;1530504482;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/arming-your-arm64-rockchip-gentoo-against-the-hordes-of-mindless-bots/ << lobbesblog - Arming your Arm64 RockChip Gentoo against the hordes of Mindless Bots
1831283;1530504484;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-01#1831136 << np, done
1831284;1530504484;a111;Logged on 2018-07-01 20:49 lobbes: incidentally, trinque, next time you're in the boiler room plox to try adding http://blog.lobbesblog.com/feed/ once more
1831285;1530506468;ave1;trinque, The directory for the script needs to absolute, i.e. ./build-ada.sh output  --> ./build-ada.sh $PWD/output
1831286;1530507332;lobbes;ty trinque
1831287;1530507334;lobbes;!!v 09AC6E34B044CA0F0C914DB999EFB519BEDF759F53928006903595F9D338F706
1831288;1530507337;deedbot;Invoiced hanbot 0.00011568 << http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q3/hanbot.txt, http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q4/hanbot.txt, http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/hanbot.txt
1831289;1530513409;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831260 <- heh, like always; the summaries page looks useful to me
1831290;1530513409;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 02:29 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831237 << interesting. seems like implementing the tags wouldn't be hard, but choosing the right ones would be
1831291;1530514861;hanbot;!!pay-invoice lobbes 1
1831292;1530514865;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Vww8H/?raw=true
1831293;1530514901;hanbot;!!v E029FB276D7C02F20744282D2A3A4D778E4D14750517FB2B585755D8C5B80A42
1831294;1530514904;deedbot;hanbot paid lobbes invoice 1
1831295;1530514916;hanbot;cheers lobbes, thanks for the service.
1831296;1530532926;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/075-adalisp-prototype-ii.html << The Tar Pit - The return of the lost son of the father of adalisp, now in a genesis
1831297;1530533184;spyked;dun dun dun
1831298;1530533260;spyked;^ phf, can you pl0x add this to the btcbase patch list? and http://lucian.mogosanu.ro/src/trilemabot/ ?
1831299;1530541958;mod6;mornin'
1831300;1530543342;asciilifeform;ohai mod6
1831301;1530544131;mircea_popescu;nice spyked
1831302;1530545201;asciilifeform;!!up fromloper
1831303;1530545202;deedbot;fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
1831304;1530545221;asciilifeform;fromloper: you're on the air! who might you be ?
1831305;1530545250;fromloper;Curious traveller. Got here by the 'Contact' link on the loperos blog.
1831306;1530545285;fromloper;Currently (re) learning LISP and was simply scouting out places to lurk ;)
1831307;1530545311;asciilifeform;fromloper: i recommend to read the logs, http://btcbase.org/log/
1831308;1530545334;fromloper;Much obliged.
1831309;1530545458;mircea_popescu;fromloper we know that, by your name, you see.
1831310;1530546397;mircea_popescu;meanwhile all quiet on the weird front. https://78.media.tumblr.com/c2b692b8132b4cbf2ff59a6ab0c1e4ba/tumblr_p3ivxcMy6N1rwygwno1_1280.jpg
1831311;1530546541;mod6;heheh
1831312;1530549482;trinque;ave1: herp, it even said that. must've been tired. chugging along now, ty
1831313;1530549530;trinque;minor niggle, http://ave1.org/tarpit/readme-2018-06-01.txt has the build script's name backwards
1831314;1530550222;phf;!!key spyked
1831315;1530550223;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/0x541A976BB5FC4B455D7FBC61BDAE9D051A3D3B95.asc
1831316;1530550329;mircea_popescu;spyked re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/074-adalisp-prototype.html what if anything do you plan to do re memory management ? gc in particular, but not just.
1831317;1530550428;mircea_popescu;(there's a lot of discussion of this topic in the logs, but to fish one example out of the many : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595771 )
1831318;1530550428;a111;Logged on 2017-01-03 20:34 mircea_popescu: all three queues to be implemented as ring buffers of user specified size.
1831319;1530550451;mircea_popescu;the notion of "program allocates memory with beginning and end" could very well go away.
1831320;1530550654;mircea_popescu;and what the hell is wrong with "let byte = 1010001101001011010111010111100" producing byte = 01111001, because 10100011/01001011/01011101/0111100
1831321;1530552191;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: plox to expand ?
1831322;1530552243;mircea_popescu;which way ?
1831323;1530552252;asciilifeform;re gc
1831324;1530552274;mircea_popescu;i'm looking for roads into the os. could be from phf's emacs, could be from spyked 's lisp, could be from your arms, could be from whatever the fuck ends up working.
1831325;1530552350;mircea_popescu;the original "let's unwind it from the FS end" didn't actually turn out capable to carry water, upon discussion.
1831326;1530552431;asciilifeform;there are 3 basic cuts of gc. 1) simplest -- no gc. you cons N times, and you're through. this is actually practical ( see the last coupla gc threads ) for scripting lang, where proggy runs for a coupla seconds, on inputs of known size, etc  2) 'stop & copy'. simplest gc, implemented in 1950s-1970s lisps, and by erry student in school. proggy runs out of space -- stops, finds what is alive and what is dead via refcounting (circular r
1831327;1530552431;asciilifeform;efs forbidden) , copies to new space. aka 'semispace'. 3) errything else. high-tech , complicated, 'multi-generational' gc, with 'nurseries', etc. imho best implemented in iron, and quite difficult to get it right.
1831328;1530552467;asciilifeform;all known approaches to gc , fall into 1 of these 3 cuts.
1831329;1530552510;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how about the implict model we kept implicitly discussing, "program can ask for memory chunks, os will treat all writes to allocated memory as mod allocated size".
1831330;1530552532;asciilifeform;this is sorta what you already get in current-day unixen
1831331;1530552535;asciilifeform;(mmap)
1831332;1530552547;mircea_popescu;just about, though seems somewhat unreliable. and no mod.
1831333;1530552583;asciilifeform;as reliable as the iron. and if you want to mod your pointers, you can, writers of e.g. nintendo, etc emulators, do
1831334;1530552597;mircea_popescu;yes, but linux does not.
1831335;1530552608;mircea_popescu;~the kernel~. not userspace optionality.
1831336;1530552635;asciilifeform;what's the win from auto-wrapping , anyway
1831337;1530552645;mircea_popescu;ada already has very strong bounds ~checks~. but if he's doing a whole adalisp, well...
1831338;1530552662;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dunno, i'm just asking him things. i wasn't trying to wrap some tellings into a pretense to questions.
1831339;1530552687;asciilifeform;i have somewhat difficult time picturing the win from auto-overwriting. 'ooops you brought home 1 too many potatoes, you just overwrite gurl's spleen'
1831340;1530552719;mircea_popescu;because you overwrite ~your~ gurl's spleen, not some other guy's gurl's spleen.
1831341;1530552752;asciilifeform;even on 386 you won't (accidentally) overwrite other-guy's
1831342;1530552768;asciilifeform;far better, to dispense with 'accidental overwritings', period.
1831343;1530552788;mircea_popescu;i dunno, seeing how all the "bug bounties" ever return is "o wait, off by 1, overwrote other guy's girl"
1831344;1530552807;asciilifeform;only when she is kept with the same potatoes.
1831345;1530552859;asciilifeform;( to carry on the analogy, in x86's retarded memprotections, you can ~spy on cunt~ of neighbour. but not insert into, unless she is kept in your potato cellar. )
1831346;1530552883;mircea_popescu;if this were strictly true, nobody'd know what a bsod is.
1831347;1530552893;asciilifeform;bsods happen in kernelspace.
1831348;1530552906;asciilifeform;( where there are, for obvious reason, no memory protections etc )
1831349;1530552917;mircea_popescu;these reasons aren't obvious. rings, yes ?
1831350;1530552934;asciilifeform;kernel already runs in (x86ological terminology) ring0
1831351;1530552950;asciilifeform;orig intel's design included intermediate rings 1,2. but microshit never used'em
1831352;1530552991;mircea_popescu;anyway, an adalisp-os could in principle stand down on x86 arch eventually.
1831353;1530552992;asciilifeform;they wrote strictly bicameral thing, '0' (kernel, do whatever to whomever) and '3' (on unix planet, aka userland, process lives in own map)
1831354;1530553079;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in principle. in practice, very difficult ( in asciilifeform's understanding, entirely impractical ) to avoid your model being poisoned at the heart by the retardation of the iron ( dma, interrupts, whole orchestra of horrors that prevent anything like effectual isolation of processes , esp in kernel, and -- more insidiously -- prevent sane model of computation even in head )
1831355;1530554759;ben_vulpes;lords and ladies, june pizarro statement will be late; my wife is experiencing an all-consuming major depression that will take all of my attention going forward. i am working with mod6 and asciilifeform to ensure continuity at pizarro.
1831356;1530554854;mod6;Thank you for the update ben_vulpes.  All the best to you and yours.
1831357;1530554923;asciilifeform;sad to hear. duty of commander then falls to mod6 . asciilifeform will take over the sysop duties that ben_vulpes has been volunteering for. the search for treasurer is on.
1831358;1530555082;mod6;I'll stand in as acting manager for the time being, but now begins the official search for a new pizarro manager.  Please let us know if interested in the role.
1831359;1530556289;mod6;One thing that I'd also like to mention regarding the role for pizarro manager: We are looking to de-couple the manager role from the accounting portion.  We're really looking for two roles at this moment.  One person to handle the accounting role, and another person to handle the day-to-day management.
1831360;1530556325;mircea_popescu;o.O
1831361;1530556372;mod6;You were disconnected when the news was announced, if you didn't see mircea_popescu .
1831362;1530556376;mircea_popescu;wait a second, this is what, at will employment ? don't even have to put in a full year or w/e, can just walk whenever the fuck it no longer looks pleasant ?
1831363;1530556445;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831355 << dude, wake the hell up. you can't quit on a day's notice, what the fuck is this.
1831364;1530556445;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 18:05 ben_vulpes: lords and ladies, june pizarro statement will be late; my wife is experiencing an all-consuming major depression that will take all of my attention going forward. i am working with mod6 and asciilifeform to ensure continuity at pizarro.
1831365;1530556453;mod6;ben_vulpes let us know that he needs to step back due to a family crisis.  Not sure what more we can do, it's not ideal, but he's going to be wrapping up the report for June and transfering all of the rest of the information and other things to asciilifeform and myself.
1831366;1530556483;mircea_popescu;mod6 you ever been involved in any sort of multi-person anything  where you could walk like that ?
1831367;1530556503;mircea_popescu;and i am including here highschool garage bands, because sure as fuck nobody in employment gets 0day notice.
1831368;1530556506;mod6;No.
1831369;1530556512;mircea_popescu;so then why are you encouraging it ?
1831370;1530556513;mod6;Right.
1831371;1530556537;mod6;I'm not, but I understand that the man needs to help his family.
1831372;1530556552;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i will do my best to continue supporting pizarro, i won't diappear immediately. but i need to find someone to take over my responsibilities, and i'm going to be stretched very thin.
1831373;1530556581;mod6;But more over, no, most roles you need to give a months notice or some such thing.  It's not my preference, but what can I do?
1831374;1530556601;mircea_popescu;insanity.
1831375;1530556666;mircea_popescu;well... so what are you gonna do, promote in house i suppose ?
1831376;1530556683;mod6;Yeah, we're looking for L1, perhaps L2 if there is a good fit.
1831377;1530556686;mod6;You wanna be manager?
1831378;1530556705;mircea_popescu;i'm a provedly inept manager for pizaroo.
1831379;1530556707;ben_vulpes;i will do as right by pizarro as i can; i will continue to do what i can. i must deliver notice that pizarro needs to find additional help.
1831380;1530556746;mod6;mircea_popescu: understood.  we appreciate your input, however.  very much.
1831381;1530556751;mod6;ben_vulpes: ty
1831382;1530556766;mircea_popescu;what's the delta between what you need and what BingoBoingo can do / has been doing ?
1831383;1530556785;mircea_popescu;he seems rather reliable to date.
1831384;1530556857;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes so is she walking on you, is the idea ?
1831385;1530556861;asciilifeform;dunno, mircea_popescu is actually quite effective manager, when he's helped with e.g. minutiae of iron. and asciilifeform appreciates his unofficial help to date.
1831386;1530556912;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: if BingoBoingo can pick up the statements, that shrinks the delta; i've been flailing at transforming btc into amazon-compatible usd for the ssd shipment over the past week, he may be able to assist with that
1831387;1530556946;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i'm spending a bit of time keeping her from walking across a highway, if that counts as "walking on you"
1831388;1530557007;mircea_popescu;better variant thereof, i guess. so travel, best thing for the suicidal.
1831389;1530557091;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's an impedance mismatch, sadly. i've not managed anything without extensive and reliable ops orgs in... well basically forever. reason i was an eff expert/consultant rather than manager was specifically that i never liked minding the middle.
1831390;1530557101;asciilifeform;fair
1831391;1530557153;mircea_popescu;i don't mind helping with the unobvious, but exactly what occured will occur again, "omfg, that was so obvious, where is it" sorta problem.
1831392;1530557487;asciilifeform;maeks sense. 'flag vs field officers'
1831393;1530557581;mod6;BingoBoingo says he's on his way to the interwebs, was out shopping for hot water heaters...
1831394;1530558037;mircea_popescu;what, he gets hot water ?!
1831395;1530558130;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in curb news, https://78.media.tumblr.com/caebcd8f270c2c96873ecf1e06f17a51/tumblr_omgqhw524f1vpx2zho1_500.gif
1831396;1530558782;mod6;haha.
1831397;1530558864;mod6;*2
1831398;1530562599;BingoBoingo;Lot of news while I was looking for a water heater.
1831399;1530563269;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831382 << The big thing other than the statements and billing is ben_vulpes has done a lot of work managing the shared hosting machine.
1831400;1530563269;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 18:39 mircea_popescu: what's the delta between what you need and what BingoBoingo can do / has been doing ?
1831401;1530563312;BingoBoingo;!!up tim17
1831402;1530563312;deedbot;tim17 voiced for 30 minutes.
1831403;1530563326;BingoBoingo;tim17: What bring you around these parts?
1831404;1530564956;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-01#1831143 << pretty cool, esthlos!
1831405;1530564956;a111;Logged on 2018-07-01 23:46 deedbot: http://blog.esthlos.com/trilema-log-reading/ << esthlos - Trilema Log Reading
1831406;1530565632;BingoBoingo;In other news, here's what you get from the local "leaders" in online commerce: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2xinx/?raw=true
1831407;1530565698;BingoBoingo;tldr: I am trying to buy two chairs of a locally ubiquitous style. This vendor advertised a low price. They didn't come during the delivery window... or the next day.
1831408;1530565780;BingoBoingo;Eventually they bitch that I paid paypal (because I want chairs more than leftover paypal-olade from old country)
1831409;1530565873;BingoBoingo;I give it 25% odds I get the chairs tomorrow versus 75% odds I don't get the chairs and they lose their ability to accept paypal
1831410;1530566725;mod6;spyked: hey!  pretty neat-o adalisp here.  I tried it out, was able to build.  I did get one error in the test.scm, any thoughts? http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wXcA6/?raw=true
1831411;1530566866;mod6;BingoBoingo: maybe someone can just pay someone via paypal and they can give you fiat?
1831412;1530566946;BingoBoingo;mod6: It is too late for that to offer them any remedy. Through their website they presented an offer. I tendered payment. Either they deliver the fucking chairs or they and paypal suffer.
1831413;1530566975;mod6;Fair enough, Sir.
1831414;1530566977;asciilifeform;lol i pictured BingoBoingo's flat as a sort of partizan lair, chairs made from ammo crates etc
1831415;1530566984;mod6;lol.
1831416;1530567009;mod6;that's a pretty solid interior decorating idea.
1831417;1530567018;BingoBoingo;(Paypal suffers in this scenario because if they fail to deliver the chairs the idiots on this side surely won't blame their own brain damage)
1831418;1530567049;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> lol i pictured BingoBoingo's flat as a sort of partizan lair, chairs made from ammo crates etc << Eventually.
1831419;1530567942;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/fbi-busts-ohio-man-for-doing-surveillance-for-fbi/ << Qntra - FBI Busts Ohio Man For Doing Surveillance For FBI
1831420;1530567943;BingoBoingo;^ In the can't even death ray no moar dept
1831421;1530568005;asciilifeform;'He seemed to try his FBI handler's patience when he suggested at the last minute that they switch from packing the explosives into remote-control cars and instead use a van.' << lol!!
1831422;1530568381;BingoBoingo;AHA, I knew you'd find that gem
1831423;1530570610;ben_vulpes;!!v D1A3E20B77A25846CE47D38CE998C323176774B2494712CC2ED240D510A922AE
1831424;1530570613;deedbot;ben_vulpes paid mats invoice 3
1831425;1530570881;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831410 << his work in progress parser doesn't handle end of file, so as of right now the error is normal
1831426;1530570881;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 21:25 mod6: spyked: hey!  pretty neat-o adalisp here.  I tried it out, was able to build.  I did get one error in the test.scm, any thoughts? http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wXcA6/?raw=true
1831427;1530573147;mod6;phf: ahhh, got it.  thanks for the info.
1831428;1530577318;*;asciilifeform wrapping up a very gnarly ffa surgery, >2x speed boost. thx to ave1 for the gnat clues.
1831429;1530579628;phf;asciilifeform: i was using the wrong arch archive, google blessed kernel boots with your user space
1831430;1530579702;phf;oddly, unrelatedly and annoyingly the device reboots when i put it down too hard on the desk. i'm not slamming it, just a bit harder placement, it power cycles...
1831431;1530580048;mircea_popescu;loose screw ?
1831432;1530580137;asciilifeform;phf: i suspect this is a deliberate google retardation, thing has a gyro
1831433;1530580152;asciilifeform;prolly curable by rebuilding ec fw
1831434;1530580209;asciilifeform;phf: fwiw i put my c101pa in the graveyard for nao, it was massive sink of time with ~0 to show for it
1831435;1530580689;phf;врагу не сдается нашъ гордый варягъ
1831436;1530580714;asciilifeform;что тебе снится, крейсер chromebook
1831437;1530581048;phf;tbh i assumed it was a lost cause around when cr50 was discovered. it's overall a worthwhile direction of exploration since i assume we're still gravitating towards an arm gentoo
1831438;1530581084;asciilifeform;phf: pizarro cluster is running a ( pre-trinqueian, admittedly ) arm64 gentoo even nao
1831439;1530581089;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in practical jewelry, https://78.media.tumblr.com/75bfce53ea94b6e17929a9a5a16d7265/tumblr_oim2ebcr5J1spwl2qo1_1280.jpg
1831440;1530581277;phf;asciilifeform: right, and as far as we know right now cr50 doesn't have a remote/wifi access component. if it can't be wholly removed, maybe it can be "cut" (not necessarily by literally cutting the wire, but the direction of closing the plug hole)
1831441;1530581339;asciilifeform;phf: what plug hole. thing charges from the usbc jacks, cr50 actually drives the charger logic.
1831442;1530581475;asciilifeform;1st class 'broken glass glue'.
1831443;1530581535;mircea_popescu;honestly, a replacement chareger dongle would be a very good thing.
1831444;1530581555;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is approx on par with replacement dog head for hippo.
1831445;1530581584;mircea_popescu;i don't follow
1831446;1530581626;mircea_popescu;this arrangement where "laptop manages its own power" is bullshit.
1831447;1530581635;mircea_popescu;i want my own, wholly separate, universal charger/manager.
1831448;1530581661;asciilifeform;li-ion battery is not mircea_popescu's edison ups , where all you gotta do to charge is apply a voltage. it eats pulse train, with thermometer feedback, etc crapola.
1831449;1530581666;mircea_popescu;ie, exactly the opposite way apple tries to go, with its "proprietary cables" bullshit.
1831450;1530581688;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the whole stack has to be broken. if it takes giving up li ion, fine. whatever it takes.
1831451;1530581705;mircea_popescu;no more of this "item manages its own power". it's insanity, and moreover very much of the same feather as "usg manages its own currency"
1831452;1530581713;mircea_popescu;fuck that. worthless sluts go on their kneesd.
1831453;1530581717;asciilifeform;well yes. it is possible to build something like a 1990s lappy. but not really out of ultraminiaturized crapple-style claptrap under microscope.
1831454;1530581726;asciilifeform;one builds it from 0.
1831455;1530581749;mircea_popescu;maybe there's a cut in between. anyway, as a matter of principle -- laptop may not manage its own power.
1831456;1530581861;asciilifeform;i dun disagree with the 'no own power' thing, if i were designing a lappy i'd make it something like a https://archive.li/SAqOz , separate box for battery etc.
1831457;1530581866;mircea_popescu;and along these lines, i'll dispute your ~0 to show for it. there's two classes of (very important!) things to show for it. one class is that now when i tell amstan he's the repugnant son of a stupid whore, there's loglines backing it up ; and when we discuss google as an instrument of evil, also.
1831458;1530581883;asciilifeform;we already knew what google is, lol
1831459;1530581888;asciilifeform;but otherwise sure.
1831460;1530581891;mircea_popescu;obviousaly this was never ~needed~, but then again oil deposits were not ~needed~ either. yet in its wisdom mother nature has provided.
1831461;1530581915;mircea_popescu;the other class, is that specific statements, such as the above, "item may not manage its own power" had opportunity to be stated.
1831462;1530581921;asciilifeform;right
1831463;1530581930;mircea_popescu;this, again, not needed, in the sense "obvious". yet, there they are, same deal.
1831464;1530581944;mircea_popescu;now, i believe if you say we ate all the cheese that was in that trap, no further point in fucking with it.
1831465;1530581951;mircea_popescu;but i don't believe you when you say there was no cheese.
1831466;1530581964;asciilifeform;can't even be 100% sure of this. prolly doomed to come back to it at some point.
1831467;1530581978;asciilifeform;but asciilifeform has massively backed up conveyor of urgent matter.
1831468;1530581982;mircea_popescu;i would certainly not mind a "fuck you -- power control replacement" item just for the fuckshow of it.
1831469;1530582019;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i did describe a theoretical 'bake pad-for-pad replacement for cr50' variant.
1831470;1530582028;asciilifeform;would need somebody to xray the pcb, and map the pads.
1831471;1530582034;asciilifeform;possibly worth doing, if the hands can be found.
1831472;1530582057;mircea_popescu;hey, i have a dime out or w/e waiting for a guy who's gonna do it this month cuz prev month was busy or w/e.
1831473;1530582071;asciilifeform;lol
1831474;1530582079;mircea_popescu;it's what it is.
1831475;1530582291;asciilifeform;and naturally, ftr if http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829605 ever gets burned, insta-cure.
1831476;1530582291;a111;Logged on 2018-06-26 02:49 asciilifeform: ftr : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-25#1829540 >>> http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EBB714BB058A1C4E7038551D7311FD597B374E3EDAB9984D7D0A9470E9E1A804 ;
1831477;1530582313;mircea_popescu;right.
1831478;1530582319;*;asciilifeform extracted all 3 magickeyz, they are in the l0gz
1831479;1530582335;mircea_popescu;ie, just because you didn't get almond puree doesn't mean you weren't served desert.
1831480;1530582367;asciilifeform;similar story to the amd keys thing.
1831481;1530583387;phf;asciilifeform: are there screws under the pads on that thing?
1831482;1530583396;asciilifeform;phf: yes
1831483;1530583436;asciilifeform;phf: 3 out of 4 of'em have chassis screws
1831484;1530583532;asciilifeform;phf: if you're about to spudge it open, lift the kbd slowly, i tore the touchpad hirosi connctr straight off the pcb in mine
1831485;1530583556;mircea_popescu;alf is used to DC level couplings lol
1831486;1530583564;asciilifeform;( and it dun solder back on, comes off right with the tracks , bestest chinesium )
1831487;1530583571;mircea_popescu;WHERE IS MY ELECTRONICS HAMMER!!! NOT THAT ONE, TOO LIGHT. THE HEAVY ONE!
1831488;1530583587;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763925 << oblig
1831489;1530583587;a111;Logged on 2018-01-04 17:10 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'целый день пилили и рубили -- не смогли компьютер починить...' (tm)(r)( asciilifeform's brother )
1831490;1530583602;mircea_popescu;heh
1831491;1530583757;phf;like most chinatech this thing looks good only before you start touching it with a screw driver :/
1831492;1530583786;mircea_popescu;confucius sez no screw while driving plz.
1831493;1530592280;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/terribilibad/ << Trilema - Terribilibad
1831494;1530598105;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/hanbot_payment_receipt_bundled.txt
1831495;1530598110;deedbot;accepted: 1
1831496;1530598161;lobbes;!!v 4A21B9688BBB467C121F434897F806D31E34A3611071A63EE4BC99D5010B3D46
1831497;1530598165;deedbot;Invoiced diana_coman 0.00003889 << http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q1/diana_coman.txt http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/diana_coman.txt
1831498;1530599251;mircea_popescu;wtf i thought i v'd it
1831499;1530599260;mircea_popescu;lobbes "<deedbot> mircea_popescu paid lobbes invoice 1"
1831500;1530599299;mircea_popescu;a damn, i bet this wasn't first invoice. aite ima look into this tomorro.
1831501;1530601243;diana_coman;lobbes, I don't follow; I paid the Q1 invoice http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1802318 so what bundled?
1831502;1530601243;a111;Logged on 2018-04-18 22:21 diana_coman: !!pay-invoice lobbes 1
1831503;1530601272;diana_coman;ftr I checked and it shows in ledger too so it clearly went through
1831504;1530602119;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-530288.txt
1831505;1530610621;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831316 <-- I'd contemplated adding a small gc, but I gotta do some reading on the subj before making a decision. so it's still open to discussion, and I'll study the log threads while I'm at it.
1831506;1530610621;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 16:52 mircea_popescu: spyked re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/074-adalisp-prototype.html what if anything do you plan to do re memory management ? gc in particular, but not just.
1831507;1530610768;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831324 <-- oh I see! I'ma keep this in mind.
1831508;1530610768;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 17:24 mircea_popescu: i'm looking for roads into the os. could be from phf's emacs, could be from spyked 's lisp, could be from your arms, could be from whatever the fuck ends up working.
1831509;1530611092;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831425 <-- to add to the list of weird behaviours: ada "get char" function doesn't eat newlines, so when typing a number alone, say: echo "42" | ./test_repl , nothing'll happen. user must add an explicit space after the number.
1831510;1530611092;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 22:34 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831410 << his work in progress parser doesn't handle end of file, so as of right now the error is normal
1831511;1530611435;spyked;and in other http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-11#1812182 , I am happy to report that the may-june shithub harvest is over. sadly, I was about a month off in my estimations ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814257 ), a lesson for me to not trust initial figures: in the first days, my harvester was doing 3-4 keys/s, while a couple of weeks later teh githubs started rate-limiting, or worse, cutting off connections arbitrarily.
1831512;1530611435;a111;Logged on 2018-05-11 14:53 spyked: can confirm it worx: e.g. https://api.github.com/users?since=46 returns users starting from id 47.
1831513;1530611435;a111;Logged on 2018-05-16 10:15 spyked: ftr, I've gathered about 700k keys in the last 3-4 days; if the total number hasn't changed too much from the previous 6.9M, I estimate I should have all of them in 20-30 days from now.
1831514;1530611518;spyked;anyways, I am working on putting the ssh keys in the proper format and preparing the full report, there's some extra lulz to be extracted from this experience.
1831515;1530628210;lobbes;diana_coman: ah yup. right you are. Error on my record-keeping end. I'll cancel that one and issue a new one later tonight
1831516;1530628237;diana_coman;lobbes, cool, thanks
1831517;1530628269;*;lobbes was staring directly at his !!sent-invoices too. must've been lack-of-sleep brain
1831518;1530631871;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://archive.li/mt8rj << google, just as i expected, working on using cr50 to abolish the 'at least can boot own linux' 'hole' entirely
1831519;1530631951;asciilifeform;( there's '9000+' possible ways to do this, and without changing pcb layout at all; already the thing can inspect fw, ram, etc. and reset the box if it doesn't like what it finds )
1831520;1530631969;asciilifeform;in the fritz business, they call it 'attestation'
1831521;1530632826;mircea_popescu;spyked evidently, if adalisp isn't tabletop systems engineering, then what is it.
1831522;1530632967;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, at least it does no evil, amirite.
1831523;1530633390;asciilifeform;lolly
1831524;1530633620;mircea_popescu;trinque lobbes in other weird : <deedbot> Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.00010742 ; which i paid, and which shows in ledger as me having paid him 00100800.
1831525;1530633661;mircea_popescu;at first i looked for a weird bug that turns 010742 into 100800 ; buyt then it turned out he had already sent me an invoice, for that amt, back in oct 2017, which i re-paid
1831526;1530633682;mircea_popescu;so trinque could it be possible to not be possible to pay the same invoice twice cuz that's the point of invoices in the first place, they should die once paid
1831527;1530633696;mircea_popescu;and lobbes don't invoice for 9 digit figures because bitcoin has 8 digits!
1831528;1530633721;mircea_popescu;and also, you wanna pay me the extra back in ecu in eurloa or keep it on books as prepayment for future auctions ?
1831529;1530633722;trinque;yeah that's certainly a bug, will fix.
1831530;1530633898;trinque;fixed!
1831531;1530633934;mircea_popescu;ty!
1831532;1530633937;asciilifeform;that was fast
1831533;1530633941;mircea_popescu;AAA+++ service would bug again
1831534;1530634021;mircea_popescu;trinque aaand if that can be relied upon, can i also rely on the semantics of !!pay-invoice lobbes 1 to pay the !~first curtrently outstanding~ invoice
1831535;1530634040;mircea_popescu;thereby freeing me from a) the need to dns-check and b) the need to communicate my kyc history every time i pay ?
1831536;1530634090;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in barnum's 'suckers born erry minute', https://archive.li/3CVPx >> '...posing as admins, mods, or other key figures in the cryptocurrency world, posting messages that urged users to type a long command inside their Mac terminal, claiming to help with various problems..' etc
1831537;1530634107;asciilifeform;'key figures' didjaknow.
1831538;1530634174;mircea_popescu;there's been a definite uptick in schmucks trying to pretend they're me on fetlife. and i suppose similarly on obscure webshits i don't know about.
1831539;1530634292;trinque;mircea_popescu: the invoice number thing is baked a little more deeply than what I just changed. what do you think of "!!pay-invoice lobbes" with no integer to mean "first received and outstanding" ?
1831540;1530634363;mircea_popescu;im all for it.
1831541;1530634379;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: kinda hard to picture what the pretense wins for'em
1831542;1530634385;trinque;cool, will do
1831543;1530634393;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ill publish later a sad story, should make it obvious to you.
1831544;1530634403;asciilifeform;'hi, i'm mircea_popescu , send me 1btc and i will bless you with magical mircea_popescuinity powerz' ?
1831545;1530634412;mircea_popescu;trinque this also gives teeth to the reject-invoice semantics, because you'd better fucking reject the ones you don't intend to pay
1831546;1530634416;mircea_popescu;;est you end up paying them later
1831547;1530634433;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if you wanna write out a prediction, you got about an hour or so ?
1831548;1530634458;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i am at a loss for prediction, aside from above
1831549;1530634470;mircea_popescu;aite, ima prep it.
1831550;1530638395;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/the-catfishing-story/ << Trilema - The catfishing story
1831551;1530639006;trinque;wahahaha, ok, who trolled this girl? fess up.
1831552;1530639031;asciilifeform;twist : what if was a hand-cranked mitm.
1831553;1530639046;asciilifeform;pose as gurl, to mircea_popescu , pipeline to/from gurl2
1831554;1530639062;asciilifeform;a la douchebag
1831555;1530639076;mircea_popescu;ikr ?
1831556;1530639110;*;asciilifeform pictures a N-height pile of these
1831557;1530639129;asciilifeform;picture the exhaust end of this pipe.
1831558;1530639161;mircea_popescu;to quote from item in http://trilema.com/2018/so-whats-out-there/ : "Its only good in major city's .. Here's some tips ,copy and paste Dom profiles not in your area . You wouldn't believe how many cute girls msg me because of my profile ... "
1831559;1530639187;mircea_popescu;indian can't be arsed to figure out english plural ; but knows from his mula & stramula how "anonimity" works for cock roaches.
1831560;1530639812;mircea_popescu;but this aside, the "i will bless" africana is also present, and has been, for a long time. eg http://trilema.com/2013/a-deal-can-be-anything/#selection-27.0-27.105
1831561;1530639821;mircea_popescu;back when doge counted as an exemplar.
1831562;1530639823;mircea_popescu;the ethereum of 2013.
1831563;1530639947;mircea_popescu;neways, bbl.
1831564;1530644040;mod6;this catfish story!
1831565;1530644057;mod6;<+trinque> wahahaha, ok, who trolled this girl? fess up. << LOL right?!
1831566;1530644097;mod6;i about spit out my mineral water when I saw the wired/openbsd link
1831567;1530645766;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831431 << looks like it indeed was a loose screw. reassembling the thing fixed the issue
1831568;1530645766;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 01:07 mircea_popescu: loose screw ?
1831569;1530645833;asciilifeform;ha
1831570;1530647044;BingoBoingo;And the fiber is here
1831571;1530647507;mod6;nice!
1831572;1530648000;asciilifeform;congrats BingoBoingo
1831573;1530649490;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/ugandans-evading-social-media-tax/ << Qntra - Ugandans Evading Social Media Tax
1831574;1530651115;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: re ^ -- imho vpnism is even lulzier than torism. at least the tor suckers dun have to pay for it.
1831575;1530651143;asciilifeform;the popularity of vpnism was always a puzzler to asciilifeform .
1831576;1530651188;deedbot;http://trinque.org/2018/07/03/brief-hiatus-on-withdraw/ << trinque - Brief hiatus on Deedbot Wallet !!withdraw
1831577;1530651205;trinque;inb4 omg gox!!11
1831578;1530651208;asciilifeform;lol
1831579;1530651230;asciilifeform;trinque going to sea or wat
1831580;1530651255;trinque;for all anyone knows I'll be sitting behind the front door with a shotgun for 7 days
1831581;1530651262;trinque;will say upon return
1831582;1530651266;asciilifeform;hey that;s as good vacation as any
1831583;1530652701;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: That it is.
1831584;1530652720;BingoBoingo;In other news, lines at the gas station like I haven't seen since 9-11
1831585;1530653110;BingoBoingo;And in still other local news: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/la-whiskeria-luna-roja-pidio-disculpas-sortear-una-chica-gratis-n1250956
1831586;1530653169;BingoBoingo;"La whiskería Luna Roja, denunciada por organizar una promoción con motivo del Mundial en el que sorteaba "una chica gratis" pidió disculpas por la iniciativa. A través de su cuenta de Facebook señalaron que lamentan el episodio y que no fue la intención "herir la sensibilidad de nadie""
1831587;1530653304;asciilifeform;whiskeria lol
1831588;1530653528;BingoBoingo;Ah, and found out why the cars are lined up. Gasoline is going up 9% but "Supergas" (propane) is not
1831589;1530660920;asciilifeform;in other interesting rtfm's, 'The GNAT compiler supports dimensionality checking. The user can specify physical units for objects, and the compiler will verify that uses of these objects are compatible with their dimensions, in a fashion that is familiar to engineering practice. The dimensions of algebraic expressions (including powers with static exponents) are computed from their constituents.' (ch. 6.5)
1831590;1530661010;asciilifeform;( https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugn-docs/html/gnat_ugn/gnat_ugn/gnat_and_program_execution.html#performing-dimensionality-analysis-in-gnat for the interested gnatologist )
1831591;1530661509;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831567 << militant technological illiteracy ftw!!1
1831592;1530661509;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 19:22 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831431 << looks like it indeed was a loose screw. reassembling the thing fixed the issue
1831593;1530661536;asciilifeform;lol
1831594;1530661579;asciilifeform;sad part is, thing really does have a gyro. but asciilifeform does not currently know what, if anything, the enemy fw does with the output.
1831595;1530661611;asciilifeform;magnetometer, too
1831596;1530661666;asciilifeform;( current-day chipset makers are very much of the same 'why not' mentality as the bloaty software folx )
1831597;1530661668;mircea_popescu;i believe. yet...
1831598;1530661710;asciilifeform;for instance, the days of desolderable microphone are coming to a close, on-die 'mems' mikes are coming.
1831599;1530661748;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831586 << i don't recall, is prostitution legal there too ?
1831600;1530661748;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 21:26 BingoBoingo: "La whiskería Luna Roja, denunciada por organizar una promoción con motivo del Mundial en el que sorteaba "una chica gratis" pidió disculpas por la iniciativa. A través de su cuenta de Facebook señalaron que lamentan el episodio y que no fue la intención "herir la sensibilidad de nadie""
1831601;1530661769;asciilifeform;( gyro, btw, demonstrably doubles as a mike, usg has a well-developed and afaik somewhat successful 'audio bug via pnoje gyro' thing )
1831602;1530661800;asciilifeform;good for picking up, e.g., nearby kbd presses
1831603;1530662022;asciilifeform;in other interesting rtfm's, https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugn-docs/html/gnat_ugn/gnat_ugn/building_executable_programs_with_gnat.html#style-checking << it is possible to trigger enforcement of, e.g., max line width, absence of winblowz linefeeds, tabs, etc
1831604;1530668305;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo Total : 2276  << ftr, wrong.
1831605;1530669518;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/qntra-sqntr-june-2018-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) June 2018 Statement
1831606;1530678034;lobbes;!!v 30CA00A2F81ADD5A4600842B784377A028787910CA0869B3F24DC3EDA662870C
1831607;1530678037;deedbot;lobbes canceled diana_coman invoice 2
1831608;1530678039;lobbes;!!v 372944D00985842CA2C29215C5D507CDC3F67D4910367A70A6F59253DFF0C96F
1831609;1530678042;deedbot;Invoiced diana_coman 0.00003793 << http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/diana_coman.txt
1831610;1530678048;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q1/diana_coman_payment_receipt.txt
1831611;1530678052;deedbot;accepted: 1
1831612;1530678055;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/mircea_popescu_payment_receipt.txt
1831613;1530678058;deedbot;accepted: 1
1831614;1530678072;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831527 << deedbot requires the "0" leading the "." iirc
1831615;1530678072;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 16:01 mircea_popescu: and lobbes don't invoice for 9 digit figures because bitcoin has 8 digits!
1831616;1530678078;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831528 << the latter worx. I'll keep a running credit for you and apply to future balances. But if at any point you want to cash in the credit for ecu (or BTC) I will.
1831617;1530678078;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 16:02 mircea_popescu: and also, you wanna pay me the extra back in ecu in eurloa or keep it on books as prepayment for future auctions ?
1831618;1530678098;lobbes;fwiw trinque I'm finding this !!ledger functionality to be a real sanity-saver. ty for implementing
1831619;1530680668;mircea_popescu;lobbes kk
1831620;1530681319;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-530400.txt
1831621;1530689074;mircea_popescu;in other random thoughts re pizarro, anyone asked ncyclopediadramatica.rs how much they want to replace those god-ugly banners to usg.whateveristan ?
1831622;1530689092;mircea_popescu;lobbes ?
1831623;1530689181;mircea_popescu;https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/David_Futrelle << maybe also talk to thos lulztards, for the same money :D
1831624;1530689524;mircea_popescu;(particularly fucking hysterical bit of nonsense about how salo needs "defending" and inept "press" moral panics about "child abuse" could conceivably be taken seriously)
1831625;1530692473;mircea_popescu;https://www.dangerous.com/44767/ucla-prof-found-dead-in-hollywood-sex-dungeon/ << "The UK-born professor and dancer fell" just about describes the state of the queen's realm eh.
1831626;1530693176;diana_coman;!!pay lobbes 3
1831627;1530693180;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xHQkW/?raw=true
1831628;1530693330;mircea_popescu;and to do my part to keeping the history of idiocy recorded : apparently http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-11#972889 moved on to http://sjwiki.org/wiki/SJWiki:FAQ at some point in the intervening years.
1831629;1530693330;a111;Logged on 2015-01-11 06:09 mircea_popescu: dude... this rational wiki thing is comedic!
1831630;1530693339;mircea_popescu;not dead, just progressed, whodda thunk it.
1831631;1530693459;diana_coman;uhm, weird stuff: sent the !!v on that !!pay to deedbot but no answer; and otherwise it does answer to further !!ledger (not showing the payment) -> did I mess something up there, trinque ?
1831632;1530693482;mircea_popescu;diana_coman semantics might've just changed, see log
1831633;1530693515;diana_coman;it gave me the otp ; it just did not reply/confirm/do anything with the decoded string sent via !!v
1831634;1530693520;diana_coman;or what, now I can't pay using old method?
1831635;1530693708;mircea_popescu;idea being that no more number
1831636;1530693733;diana_coman;I thought it was either with number or without number, ugh
1831637;1530693738;diana_coman;mk, let's see
1831638;1530702592;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/in-which-a-bizarre-character-wanks-it/ << Trilema - In which a bizarre character wanks it.
1831639;1530708890;ave1;mod6, v.pl init also downloads any robots.txt file (and then barfs on it when pressing).  Could this be removed? (can be done by adding "-e robots=off" to the two wget lines in v.pl)
1831640;1530712735;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831599 << It is
1831641;1530712735;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 23:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831586 << i don't recall, is prostitution legal there too ?
1831642;1530712748;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-04#1831604 << ty fxd
1831643;1530712748;a111;Logged on 2018-07-04 01:38 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo Total : 2276  << ftr, wrong.
1831644;1530713535;diana_coman;!!pay-invoice lobbes
1831645;1530713539;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qKZO8/?raw=true
1831646;1530713766;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-04#1831631 -> I messed it up because pay instead of pay-invoice so it didn't go through, fine; but now it seems still stuck
1831647;1530713766;a111;Logged on 2018-07-04 08:37 diana_coman: uhm, weird stuff: sent the !!v on that !!pay to deedbot but no answer; and otherwise it does answer to further !!ledger (not showing the payment) -> did I mess something up there, trinque ?
1831648;1530714501;asciilifeform;meanwhile in usg limba de lemn : 'This report is a declassified version of a highly classified assessment; its conclusions are identical to those in the highly classified assessment but this version does not include the full supporting information on key elements of the influence campaign.'
1831649;1530715743;mod6;ave1: ah, I never hit an edge-case like that.  i'll put that down for fix whenever the next release might be.  thanks for letting me know.
1831650;1530715883;mod6;Lords and Laides of The Most Serene Republic: I'd like to announce that in addition to looking for a new manager for Pizarro, we are also looking someone to fill the role of Treasurer.  Please let us know if interested in either role.  Thanks!
1831651;1530721376;mircea_popescu;btw, asciilifeform phf or other conaisseurs of ye olde mosfilm : you'll prolly much enjoy http://trilema.com/2012/the-lords-of-flatbush/ ; it's basically the tough youth of soviet agitprop, in all the formal particulars, except functionally he runs away like a rabbit and sees no problem with this.
1831652;1530721428;mircea_popescu;it makes a very in interesting point re "cultural wars" and "rock and roll killed the soviet union", namely, that cca 1950 the su was winning the cultural war, very much so, the larger of the "allies", the most accomplished, sending dogs in space and building the new frontier
1831653;1530721488;mircea_popescu;as far as uneducated, "hard" ustardian kids were concerned, the dilemma stood between stories of killing injuns and "building a civilisation out of a wilderness" by then two generations expired, or else ~kids just like them actually doing it~, driving motorcycles through the endless dusts of the middle earth and erecting oil pumping metropolises across the siberia.
1831654;1530721523;mircea_popescu;there was ~a very good reason~ for mccarthyism, as it turns out, specifically this fear among the warren buffett class of the period that the kids are just about going to desert them.
1831655;1530721576;mircea_popescu;it never happened, but it never happened at the cost of the 60s.
1831656;1530721924;mircea_popescu;diana_coman well, possibly no-number not implemented yet! am i being helpful yet ?
1831657;1530721949;diana_coman;lol, will wait for trinque to come to the rescue
1831658;1530721958;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, it's how "research" gets published on all sorta "topics" in the empire of idiots.
1831659;1530722271;BingoBoingo;In other news the semi-rigid water lines are popping all over the city, just like in mircea_popescu's America
1831660;1530722290;mircea_popescu;aaand in other lulz, "IssueCrawler >> Log-in A software tool that locates and visualizes networks on the web. See www.govcom.org/scenarios_use.html for more information."
1831661;1530722325;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo btw, i don't get it, why the fuck would some bar apologize for pick-a-whore offering a free trick ?!
1831662;1530722330;BingoBoingo;lol @ govcom.org
1831663;1530722351;mircea_popescu;you don't understand, the imperial republic-lite is liek totally serious biznis!
1831664;1530722380;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I assume the retarded dignity of las trabajadoras or some shit
1831665;1530722451;BingoBoingo;Prostitution here is legal. Whiskerias are one of the legal avenues for the prostitution. The paper did cite it was anti-sex male anti-feminists behind it.
1831666;1530722454;mircea_popescu;basically, they're just as ugly & lazy as argentina's http://trilema.com/2016/lxs-ninxs/ and on the lookout for "explanations" as to why they're not doing any business ?
1831667;1530722541;BingoBoingo;As far as I can tell anti-sex work activism here is for the loser boys and girls during those two years between discovered they are wanted for sex and discovering they enjoy the sex too
1831668;1530722550;mircea_popescu;aanyways, "soros projects" http://www.govcom.org/scenarios_use.html prolly worth snapshotting
1831669;1530722624;BingoBoingo;Still, that domain name... Why not govcomorgccinfo.net
1831670;1530722669;mircea_popescu;because soros not that poor yet.
1831671;1530722756;BingoBoingo;But if you are jsut stringing together tld's why not string them all?
1831672;1530722847;mircea_popescu;open society!
1831673;1530723164;BingoBoingo;Sup wyrdmantis
1831674;1530724942;wyrdmantis;Hello, I have a question for ya
1831675;1530724979;BingoBoingo;Shoot
1831676;1530725205;wyrdmantis;Someone contacted me and asked if I know someone willing to sell bitcoin in large quantity at 10% discount, via wire transfer. Anybody here knows such a person, or any idea about where to find her?
1831677;1530725227;mircea_popescu;could tell the mysterious someone to look on localbitcoins
1831678;1530725230;mircea_popescu;!!rated wyrdmantis
1831679;1530725231;deedbot;mircea_popescu has not rated wyrdmantis.
1831680;1530725239;mircea_popescu;!!rate wyrdmantis -1 has no business here.
1831681;1530725242;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/g2gya/?raw=true
1831682;1530726295;trinque;diana_coman: did you mean !!pay-invoice ?
1831683;1530726310;trinque;the semantics have not changed yet
1831684;1530726372;trinque;you were paying lobbes 3 bitcoin.
1831685;1530726457;trinque;I suppose by now we'd better move to !!settle-invoice before the command proximity maims a friend
1831686;1530726473;mircea_popescu;conceivabru
1831687;1530726557;diana_coman;trinque, yes! aha, so all I need to do is do the !!pay-invoice lobbes 3 and that's it; correct?
1831688;1530726612;trinque;yep
1831689;1530726913;diana_coman;!!v 198DE45A4B9E7E0587B685B5068D99F94DF9A38C3E2D39799BA314DDA015ABB2
1831690;1530726916;deedbot;diana_coman paid lobbes invoice 3
1831691;1530726928;diana_coman;hooray, thank you trinque !
1831692;1530726983;trinque;np
1831693;1530732084;BingoBoingo;!!up brazilish
1831694;1530732085;deedbot;brazilish voiced for 30 minutes.
1831695;1530732090;BingoBoingo;!!key brazilish
1831696;1530732090;deedbot;Not registered.
1831697;1530732109;BingoBoingo;brazilish: Welcome back stranger... Maybe?
1831698;1530732116;brazilish;hello, came here past week and still haven't managed to register myself
1831699;1530732129;brazilish;may I stay or should i be insta kicked?
1831700;1530732178;BingoBoingo;Well, now would be a good time to register
1831701;1530732207;BingoBoingo;Until you register you're a stranger and every time you show is essentially your first time
1831702;1530732300;brazilish;btw, I want to ask if there is some reference here about how correctly doing safe computing, because i feel that if I create a pgp private key on my current setup, USG would already have it pre-seeded
1831703;1530732338;brazilish;now on xubuntu 17.10, w/o firewall and no special security measure
1831704;1530732385;brazilish;is there any safer distro out of the box?
1831705;1530732517;BingoBoingo;There's a bit of literature out, but consensus is you are best off baking your own gentoo
1831706;1530732536;brazilish;ok
1831707;1530732586;BingoBoingo;This is for an arm board, but the cuts asciilifeform makes are a good start on any platform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2295
1831708;1530732610;brazilish;bsd or linux?
1831709;1530733210;mircea_popescu;meanwhile intellectual dispute in mp household over who came up with calling marlon brando a potato ; resolved by "eh, shut up and go do some dishes", followed by suspect silence.
1831710;1530733216;mircea_popescu;"i didn't mean it literally!" "oh..."
1831711;1530733274;mircea_popescu;brazilish considering how much you're worth atm, it'll be good enough for now. can always switch it out later.
1831712;1530733290;mircea_popescu;you also don't need a safe for your shoes.
1831713;1530733362;brazilish;how can i switch a pgp key keeping the history? everyone that sent a rating need to send it again to the new pgp key?
1831714;1530733453;mircea_popescu;nah, you can replace the key you use.
1831715;1530733455;mircea_popescu;!!help
1831716;1530733455;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/help.html
1831717;1530733507;brazilish;nice, thanks
1831718;1530747327;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-18#1826640 << cut weight to 2.4mb by removing alternative versions of ebuilds. who wants one of 'em can sign a patch.
1831719;1530747327;a111;Logged on 2018-06-18 23:08 trinque: phf, Mocky, and others waiting on cuntoo, the genesis.vpatch which contains only the ebuilds necessary for a minimal system is about 4mb.
1831720;1530747426;Mocky;sounds fair enuf
1831721;1530747498;trinque;https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/musl.git/commit/?id=877c6d3a1bf239d117bcd3fa39dce1ae248d0e51 << in related lulz
1831722;1530747606;trinque;https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/musl.git/commit/?id=a16515e5a86fcf9aebc5c7330ca34d6faac8c8c5 << which obviously makes this the end of history having anything to do with them.
1831723;1530747666;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/british-police-warn-of-nerve-agent-attack/ << Qntra - British Police Warn Of Nerve Agent Attack
1831724;1530751131;mircea_popescu;wtf is an Aric Belsito.
1831725;1530751435;mircea_popescu;in other news, went for glass of wine with friends at this coquette french bistro ; old car exhibition decided to occur just outside.
1831726;1530751456;mircea_popescu;they had a viper mustang, and a beautiful belair, and a thunderbird and things.
1831727;1530751696;Mocky;re: nerve agent qntra, nice archive.is link... BaRrf
1831728;1530753622;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Every now and then those happen
1831729;1530754712;mircea_popescu;lol
1831730;1530762230;asciilifeform;mosquitoes here in mosquitostan nearly thick enuff to walk on.
1831731;1530762332;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-04#1831653 << sorta why they threw errything they could at it. 'i have no cow but at least can burn the neighbour's barn'
1831732;1530762332;a111;Logged on 2018-07-04 16:24 mircea_popescu: as far as uneducated, "hard" ustardian kids were concerned, the dilemma stood between stories of killing injuns and "building a civilisation out of a wilderness" by then two generations expired, or else ~kids just like them actually doing it~, driving motorcycles through the endless dusts of the middle earth and erecting oil pumping metropolises across the siberia.
1831733;1530767838;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/no-such-labs-snsa-june-2018-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), June 2018 Statement
1831734;1530767855;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform when's the ffa restart btw ?
1831735;1530769166;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in monkey see, monkey gets fucked lulz, https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/dating-columnist-reveals-how-sex-and-the-city-ruined-her-life/
1831736;1530769385;mircea_popescu;choice bits, "Last year, I ended a two-year relationship with a man who ultimately couldn’t commit and wanted to be polyamorous." ie "i was somewhere mid-dial on the phone of some dude with some money, who eventually had enough of my airs and stopped returning calls".
1831737;1530769687;mircea_popescu;"These days I work as a change activist, mounting summits for world leaders and serving as an adviser to startups and entrepreneurs looking to better the planet. "
1831738;1530769732;mircea_popescu;ie, "if you're fucktarded enough to think this worn out borderline sleeve is going to pronounce you a ~world leader~, it'll cost you fiddy bux or w/e"
1831739;1530795886;BingoBoingo;Ah, that's Randi Zuckerburg's old bestie
1831740;1530795905;BingoBoingo;*ole bessie
1831741;1530796345;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831734 << launches today ! ( making a few edits atm )
1831742;1530796345;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 05:17 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when's the ffa restart btw ?
1831743;1530799665;asciilifeform;lol i actually somehow missed http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831514 . hey spyked , lemme know when these are ready to eat, they will go in same day.
1831744;1530799665;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 09:51 spyked: anyways, I am working on putting the ssh keys in the proper format and preparing the full report, there's some extra lulz to be extracted from this experience.
1831745;1530799893;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathendom, in re the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-30#1830910 lulzfest, https://archive.fo/0AQo0 >> 'what happens when a bunch of people without even first year maths try to write a specification without understanding how to define representations. Technically the representation model is entirely non-normative because it's logically circular.'
1831746;1530799893;a111;Logged on 2018-06-30 13:45 phf: https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479 "C Is Not a Low-level Language: Your computer is not a fast PDP-11."
1831747;1530800029;asciilifeform;'A friend, learning C, asked me for help in understand the results of some such expression as   a = (b++) + ((b++) + (b++))   It emerged that one could run this on different compilers, even on the same machine, and get about as many results as one tried different compilers...' etc
1831748;1530800841;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/facebook-censors-us-declaration-of-independence-as-hate-speech/ << Qntra - Facebook Censors US Declaration Of Independence As "Hate Speech"
1831749;1530807490;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in trilema oldies, http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/
1831750;1530807677;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo some "important" "success story" etcetera from the swamp. because memory hole in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 an' http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-10#1047258
1831751;1530807677;a111;Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
1831752;1530807677;a111;Logged on 2015-03-10 01:54 mircea_popescu: goes with my "Remember the inept newsweek goon, Leah McGrath Goodman ? The chick with the mortgage she can't pay on her own ? Like that other chick, like each and every other chick in this quagmire of chickdom ?
1831753;1530807720;asciilifeform;oh hah whatever happened, incidentally, to leah #xxxxx.. ?
1831754;1530807743;asciilifeform;( 'adonis xiii' !111 )
1831755;1530807757;mircea_popescu;very much in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-14#795515 : NONE, and i mean it : not a single FUCKING ONE of these "government-sponsored oligarchs" have a penny to their name. every single one "powerful" of the democracy-socialism, be they a senator, a general, a "famous person", a "journalist", WHATHEVER they may be, made out, at all. not like bandits, not like anythings, they're as poor as church mice.
1831756;1530807757;a111;Logged on 2014-08-14 01:43 mircea_popescu: this theory that redditards have like... different personalities. what do you people do in the intimacy of your own house, name goldfish ?
1831757;1530807794;mircea_popescu;EXACTLY mirroring the undemocratic-socialism creation of "bussinessmen" through "corruption" and "stealing from the government" -- which is to say EXACTLY the same process run by EXACTLY the same people the exact same way.
1831758;1530807823;mircea_popescu;zero difference between russian product of the socialist state pretending to wealth and mark-leah cuban-goodman whatever.
1831759;1530807845;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes. the exact same "has happened" to her as to this other one.
1831760;1530807878;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly minor diff, but the occasional orc oligarch does manage to move some dough offshore and live kakobrekla-style in some zimbabwestan island for yrs
1831761;1530807883;mircea_popescu;precisely same as to the "surprised by wealth" moron. sitting somewhere in a peculiar hovel hoping people from the internet will come anf fix his ac.
1831762;1530807893;asciilifeform;( afaik the nato variants, seldom manage this )
1831763;1530807901;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform afaik kakobrekla was living off his dad's money, at all points in his life.
1831764;1530807916;mircea_popescu;all variants, from sierra leone to canada, manage this, and always have.
1831765;1530807921;asciilifeform;i've nfi, but the 700+ coinz prolly helped neh
1831766;1530807929;mircea_popescu;neh.
1831767;1530807935;mircea_popescu;because he's a fucktard, specifically.
1831768;1530807939;mircea_popescu;it'd have helped... his dad.
1831769;1530807956;mircea_popescu;some people -- can not be helped.
1831770;1530807967;asciilifeform;dragonfly can run on 2 joules / day, for all i know 700btc can run 700yrs of kako
1831771;1530807993;mircea_popescu;eh, he bought some bs midmarket car, 2014s style.
1831772;1530808000;asciilifeform;vroom..
1831773;1530808021;mircea_popescu;then got butthurt that his perceived importance no longer matches his actual importance, and why should it be his fault. then got clever about it. whatever.
1831774;1530808079;mircea_popescu;kinda how the film snaps for all these "fellow travellers" or w/e you'd call them, "herd of independent minds", "reasonable people with reservations", "skeptical but objective observer of own life", whatever socially-acceptable wrappers on narcissism.
1831775;1530808101;mircea_popescu;first it kinda looks like a) it really is a film everyone wants to watch and b) they're in the main cast!!!
1831776;1530808120;mircea_popescu;c) then it changes, as it always does ; and d) they try an' fix it.
1831777;1530808123;mircea_popescu;goethe told it bette.
1831778;1530808159;asciilifeform;speaking of, did mircea_popescu ever watch the ancient silent film of faust ?
1831779;1530808179;asciilifeform;i saw a pretty great showing of it once, complete with pipe organist accompaniment
1831780;1530808390;asciilifeform;re 'surprised by wealth folx', asciilifeform was somewhat astonished to discover that esr's infamous 'open sores ups project' features not a 'make own heavy industrial ups to run for 3 days' but instead... clone of one of those laughably miniature things they sell at konsoomer kompooter shops, 'run for 3min so you can shitdown'
1831781;1530808397;mircea_popescu;yup.
1831782;1530808418;asciilifeform;dafuq, one might naively ask, is the point, of such a thing.
1831783;1530808433;mircea_popescu;windows support.
1831784;1530808508;asciilifeform;from asciilifeform's personal history with sad iron, the alpha and omega of the weakness of konsoomer ups, is that it features no way to handle the devil in the details of plugging in gigantic array of battery ( they tend to have minimal or nonexistent inverter cooling, and melt down long before your bank of boat batteries or whichever, runs out )
1831785;1530808618;mircea_popescu;anyway, they exist to foul up the world. fucking obviously "open source ups" is a basement full of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-20#1803817 as pluriously discussed in the logs
1831786;1530808618;a111;Logged on 2018-04-20 18:33 mircea_popescu: the numbers are worth the mention : if you get 500 old truck/high power car batteries, literally, and you put them in 4 lines (gets about 49 - 50V or so), you now have somewhere in the range of 500 * AT LEAST 50 Ah in your hands. that's 25 KWh for the more common measure.
1831787;1530808642;mircea_popescu;well... shed full of ~ ; basement full of iron
1831788;1530808651;asciilifeform;( btw this kind of thing has some interesting implications: iron that runs in pulse duty cycle can handle unspeakable wattage for so long as the pulse is short. consider typical example, photographer's xenon flash lamp, if you wanted same light in a sustained 100% cycle, you need a 10kg projector rather than 10g flash thingie. or targeting laser for tank, easily 50w , but pocket-sized. )
1831789;1530808661;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform where's the discussion re the dc and its Fe- batts ?
1831790;1530808733;asciilifeform;( when asciilifeform was running number for a -- so far, paper-only , gedankenexperiment -- shortwave gossipd station, realized that the traditional outlandish bulk of 1000+w shortwave transmitter, is unnecessary if you only care to transmit millisecond bursts a couple times per hr ; can have fairly compact and inexpensive item, not normally seen in 'heavy' pirate radio experience )
1831791;1530808746;mircea_popescu;anyway, you wouldn't use consumer "tech" for any serious purpose. make a god damned inverter, out of one of those solar power bs.
1831792;1530808752;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the edison battery thread aha
1831793;1530808757;mircea_popescu;right.
1831794;1530808781;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'make own ups' is a sort of peculiar joke, surplus datacentre ups are just short of a dime a dozen
1831795;1530808808;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform imo this is not even the wrong way ; will not only significantly cheapen our end, but ~all of the enemy hardware will ahve to be replaced, at capital costs far exceeding its current capacities (projected to diminish in the future as they may be)
1831796;1530808815;mircea_popescu;current gear can't deal with pulse piracy
1831797;1530808840;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: even kgb at its golden age more or less threw in the towel in face of pulsed pirate
1831798;1530808873;asciilifeform;it is extraordinarily difficult to get even rough triangulation for pulsed station, esp when there are ~several~ going. ( iirc we had the thread )
1831799;1530808920;asciilifeform;my gedanken-schematic contemplated an ~unattended~ relay. ( approx. briefcase-sized, not counting the aerial )
1831800;1530808922;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1831801;1530809043;asciilifeform;pulsed tx means you can get away with not only small energy supply (e.g. konsoomer photovoltaic + capacitor) but thin, inexpensive aerial wires, smallish transistor in the amp ( vs the thumb-sized monsters seen in traditional radio design ), and so on.
1831802;1530809097;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform "make own" is always a good idea ; i train new slavegirls in cooking even though i got more star-able cooks here than any restaurant ever afforded.
1831803;1530809113;asciilifeform;always good idea once.
1831804;1530809122;asciilifeform;there is only so much that can be learned from paper.
1831805;1530809140;mircea_popescu;there are things which ~must~ be learned, in order to permit learning in principle. nobody learns arithmetic because the world's desperate for more 9yo accountants.
1831806;1530809144;mircea_popescu;but yes.
1831807;1530809171;mircea_popescu;in any case, power is an important aspect of de-kulakizing the empire.
1831808;1530809175;asciilifeform;study of electronics in particular requires some 'magic smoke', in all cases.
1831809;1530809196;asciilifeform;folx who learned from paper and simulators, tend to end up in a sad corner when time to actually build something.
1831810;1530809220;mircea_popescu;you recall those "build your own radio, or blinkelinghten lamp" things from ye olden days ?
1831811;1530809224;asciilifeform;verily
1831812;1530809235;mircea_popescu;not found anymore, though i suppose "buy computer parts make desktop" cvasi-acceptable substitute.
1831813;1530809259;asciilifeform;in particular true for radio work, where the 'lumped' (see maxwell thread) approximation taught in uni, is actually a mere toy approximation of physical reality
1831814;1530809317;asciilifeform;imho 'buy boards, make desktop' is not particularly educational in current-day, aside from the abstract teaching of 'yes, the parts are interchangeable, yes you can work a screwdriver' kindergarten curriculum
1831815;1530810110;mircea_popescu;very fucking educational.
1831816;1530810128;mircea_popescu;are you aware about 2/3 of the fuckage female population does not own a computer ?
1831817;1530810151;mircea_popescu;are you aware the third that does and the two thirds that don't contain the EXACT SDAME PERCENT of seld-diagnosed smarts, intelligence etcetera ?
1831818;1530810192;mircea_popescu;do you know they literally lack the werewithal, as 20something yos, supposedly capable of employment and child rearing, to a) identify the problem ; b) identify the solution ; c) put boards into a mobo and hook it all up ?
1831819;1530810208;mircea_popescu;the saeculum produces girls unqualified to be niggers.
1831820;1530810513;asciilifeform;bonsaikittens aha.
1831821;1530810593;trinque;the sad creatures aren't being given anything to do, which would prompt the "ah shit, I don't even own a proper pair of underwear^W^W^Wcomputer"
1831822;1530810748;mircea_popescu;right.
1831823;1530810806;asciilifeform;from asciilifeform's pov, it is however ~too many~ meatsacks who own comp (or at least think they do) rather than too few
1831824;1530810840;mircea_popescu;you know that about 1/3 of responsens my bot gets come as "what ?" which generally gets ignored, and generally forms during the day in the more literate complaint of "i can't read the subject line", often with culprit-identification bolted on the side : "~IT~ cuts it off". what the fuyck is this "it" ?
1831825;1530810874;mircea_popescu;invariably the retort comes as "sucks to be on the phone, huh", for which they are utterly unprepared. notwithstanding six-figure "education debt" in each to the last one.
1831826;1530810893;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform 100% of meatsacks on the internet should own comp.
1831827;1530810894;asciilifeform;( picture a 'alt-history' where it came to be that 2/3 of population owned a particle accelerator (let's say, for sterilization of even moar outlandishly-gangrenous usa.beef than presently sold . ) picture the pestilential 'omfg i am eating what! isotope?!' complaints
1831828;1530810899;asciilifeform;)
1831829;1530810918;mircea_popescu;if they're online they'd better fucking own the machinery.
1831830;1530810926;asciilifeform;in fact, this sorta happened, recall the early crt tv and its xray killzone
1831831;1530810970;mircea_popescu;i have no problem with http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ ; aftert all i came up with it. but i have a problem with halfway measures towards it.
1831832;1530811035;asciilifeform;there may not be quite enuff chechens in natolandia for anyffing better than halfmeasure, atm
1831833;1530811049;mircea_popescu;so then, they'd better own computers.
1831834;1530811075;asciilifeform;sorta why asciilifeform sank 100litres of sweat into the armlappy thing.
1831835;1530811112;asciilifeform;btw in addition to mircea_popescu's earlier observation, it aint a total loss also in that asciilifeform can bake a neutered replacement rom more or less immediately if the key is ever popped.
1831836;1530811115;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828397 -> ben_vulpes, mod6, BingoBoingo what's the status on this?
1831837;1530811115;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 19:02 mircea_popescu: mod6 a) why not just sell it to pizarro and b) it's really no rush, end of the month's fine.
1831838;1530811146;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc ben_vulpes's last gasp, prior to disappearing into his unfortunate sabbatical, was to ship disks.
1831839;1530811151;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's still conceivable we'll eventually give enough of a shit to perfect a chip lifting process.
1831840;1530811165;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's nice, but what do we do ?
1831841;1530811168;asciilifeform;!Q later tell BingoBoingo plz lemme know if you have the tracking info
1831842;1530811169;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1831843;1530811200;diana_coman;asciilifeform, mircea_popescu fwiw kid also got a basic set of electronic components and a board to stick them onto + booklet with ~100 basic circuits and he's been having a blast with it although I'd say he still has a way to go to fully grasp what he's doing
1831844;1530811209;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform mod6 appreciate the situation here : 1. customer walks in. this is a MAJOR item for a company that apparently lost its only candidate manager over the inability to organize a sales mechanism, whereby doesn't have to wait for customer to walk in.
1831845;1530811230;mircea_popescu;2. customer gives ~2 week early warning, and then the mark comes and goes, and customer doesn't have what he wanted.
1831846;1530811245;mircea_popescu;now what do i do, do i wait ? how do i know i'm not waiting for an infinite loop ?
1831847;1530811273;mircea_popescu;diana_coman are these ics ? or ye olde resistors capacitors etc ?
1831848;1530811299;diana_coman;resistors, capacitors, a led
1831849;1530811330;mircea_popescu;not bad! i wouldn't care whether he consciously understands what he's doing. that's not really how the brain works, at that age. he learned to speak without understanding what the fuck he was doing also.
1831850;1530811351;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if no answer from ben_vulpes in day or 2, i'ma have to ctrl-C that loop and take over reactor controls, and ask mod6 to make good on his offer to sell his spare ssd's, currently kept in the bilge, to pizarro, and then give the signal to BingoBoingo to install it in diana_coman's auxiliary box.
1831851;1530811364;mircea_popescu;alright.
1831852;1530811366;diana_coman;aha; (though I must say: next time anyone says kids learn languages "easily" I'll punch them on the spot)
1831853;1530811382;mircea_popescu;diana_coman subjectively easily. for the obvious reason : because they perceive no alternative.
1831854;1530811385;asciilifeform;it is however my current understanding that diana_coman wants a trinque cuntoo install. this means that trinque gotta give the signal and supply with what to install -- and ideally prior to going on his vacation.
1831855;1530811395;mircea_popescu;the role of the belt/whip with adults is exactly same -- to remove the false perception of alternative.
1831856;1530811399;mircea_popescu;for those that can't do this in software.
1831857;1530811431;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i thought he had published the thing
1831858;1530811435;mircea_popescu;am i confused ?!
1831859;1530811440;trinque;asciilifeform: that's not happening, there's still plenty of work to be done.
1831860;1530811442;diana_coman;eh, ~anyone stuck in a similar situation would learn it quite as fast; and that "easily" means mum talking like crazy all the time, lol
1831861;1530811453;mircea_popescu;ayup.
1831862;1530811467;trinque;mircea_popescu: I published a build script that upstream subsequently trashed, abandoned gcc versions, and all the rest.
1831863;1530811469;mircea_popescu;trinque so wait, how do i follow your cuntoo in production ? or shouldn't ?
1831864;1530811493;mircea_popescu;i thought you had published something recently, like a week or so.
1831865;1530811501;diana_coman;trinque, my understanding was that you can release something that can be installed currently (although not final version)?
1831866;1530811505;trinque;this build script was to have a gentoo which uses musl, and uses patched ebuilds from the libressl and musl overlays.
1831867;1530811518;asciilifeform;diana_coman: as i understand there are exactly two variants : 1) waitloop on trinque to declare his item as ready for battlefield test 2) asciilifeform bakes an exact clone of existing s.mg gentoo ( really, dulap-iii's gentoo )
1831868;1530811590;asciilifeform;trinque: i thought you've successfully seceded from upstream gentoo (i.e. baked own ports tree mirror etc )
1831869;1530811594;asciilifeform;or is this still in the works.
1831870;1530811604;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828010 <- this; my understanding is that it would still give a musltronic system, right?
1831871;1530811604;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 14:35 trinque: diana_coman: I have updated the script you last tried, such that it again works. What I have not completed is the v-tree which is to replace imperial portage.
1831872;1530811608;mircea_popescu;trinque aha so basically the situation here is, 1. you did an ablated gentoo last year, which was more vanilla ; 2. meanwhile it was discovered no longer builds, because imperial shitstack can't be a foundation for anything but the cockroaches ; 3. since ave1 work meshes well with older asciilifeform work we've updated the cuntoo target for a full musl integration, and this will come but 4. prolly later this year ?
1831873;1530811685;trinque;this is correct; I've been fighting a war against upstream and reposessing items since the original build script. this process is close but not done.
1831874;1530811693;mircea_popescu;alright.
1831875;1530811703;mircea_popescu;so then the correct decision here is to clone the gentoo.
1831876;1530811705;asciilifeform;btw asciilifeform muchly appreciates trinque's sweat, last yr asciilifeform was quite certain of having to do all of this with own hands.
1831877;1530811717;mircea_popescu;we'll have yet another flip flop later when we move to the musl.
1831878;1530811721;mircea_popescu;not the end of the world i guess.
1831879;1530811748;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there's a second devil potentially in the details -- not knowing much re eulora particulars, asciilifeform does not know whether it will actually build 100% musltronically
1831880;1530811761;mircea_popescu;kinda what we're trying to find out.
1831881;1530811765;asciilifeform;( the gpg-derived coad -- will. but as for the rest, i do not know )
1831882;1530811787;mircea_popescu;diana_coman has been tickling it for the past 2-6 weeks.
1831883;1530811798;asciilifeform;this is actually testable on diana_coman's existing box, all it requires is to set up ( as i understand, diana_coman already has ) ave1's gcc toolchain , in user homedir
1831884;1530811811;mircea_popescu;afaik that passes. diana_coman did it ?
1831885;1530811813;asciilifeform;this will not interfere with the operation of the production proggy
1831886;1530811822;diana_coman;asciilifeform, uhm, but how about the deps?
1831887;1530811836;diana_coman;e.g mysql
1831888;1530811856;asciilifeform;diana_coman: if this were my system, i'd build'em rotor-style ( using existing rotor script, add e.g. mysql to the deps set )
1831889;1530811883;asciilifeform;this will reveal where, if anywhere, your orchestra breaks on musl
1831890;1530811916;diana_coman;myeah, but what is there to gain from that instead of simply building it on cuntoo directly?
1831891;1530811921;diana_coman;on musltronic system?
1831892;1530811931;asciilifeform;diana_coman: strictly in that we do not yet have an operating musltronic cuntoo.
1831893;1530811966;asciilifeform;if, as appears to be the case, the latter is far from battlefield deployment, it may be worth .
1831894;1530811993;mircea_popescu;hmph
1831895;1530812005;diana_coman;mircea_popescu> afaik that passes. diana_coman did it ? <- yes for eulora-server code itself
1831896;1530812010;mircea_popescu;right.
1831897;1530812016;asciilifeform;i will help but strictly if mircea_popescu specifically asks, given as he had asciilifeform swear not to meddle in euloristic matters.
1831898;1530812036;*;mircea_popescu asked for a box!
1831899;1530812056;diana_coman;asciilifeform, we are atm trying to not waste effort, not really adding *more* effort into it
1831900;1530812068;diana_coman;I do appreciate both your offer and your other work
1831901;1530812086;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831841 << I do not yet
1831902;1530812086;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 17:19 asciilifeform: !Q later tell BingoBoingo plz lemme know if you have the tracking info
1831903;1530812087;lobbesbot;BingoBoingo: Sent 15 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plz lemme know if you have the tracking info
1831904;1530812102;asciilifeform;diana_coman: as i understand, it would not be a wasted effort , given as if a musl-incompatibility is revealed , diana_coman can go straight to patching it, working in parallel with trinque's finishing touches on cuntoo
1831905;1530812108;mircea_popescu;diana_coman the point remains, though. given that apparently we both misread the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828010 line, it may actually be entirely spurious to get a box and build on it.
1831906;1530812108;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 14:35 trinque: diana_coman: I have updated the script you last tried, such that it again works. What I have not completed is the v-tree which is to replace imperial portage.
1831907;1530812125;asciilifeform;however if no such incompatibility is found, then yes, it doesn't win anyffing over 'wait for cuntoo' scenario.
1831908;1530812177;mircea_popescu;trinque so what was it ? premature excitement, does not in fact work ?
1831909;1530812181;asciilifeform;trinque: is there a chance you can supply us with a 'pre-release' cuntoo ?
1831910;1530812186;asciilifeform;with no warranties etc
1831911;1530812197;trinque;one sec, received a phone call. brb.
1831912;1530812201;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform eh, he doesn't want to have to support that and i don't want to use unsupported release.
1831913;1530812208;asciilifeform;fair
1831914;1530812242;trinque;I was saying the script (which is now a bootstrapper) can be used to produce a usable system (which is not cuntoo, but gentoo), and I think it's reasonable not to want to use that.
1831915;1530812247;mircea_popescu;because if i do and something breaks, i have no way to extract value out of the foregoing effort. what will i do, trilema article about "here should be some words nobody knows how they'd go" ?
1831916;1530812264;mircea_popescu;trinque ok, but it's not musl.
1831917;1530812271;asciilifeform;iirc i explained this in an earlier thread, but it is not possible to test selectively-musltronic e.g. mysql installed ~systemwide~ on a conventional glibc box
1831918;1530812287;asciilifeform;the only way to muslate on a conventional (glibc) box, is via the rotor method.
1831919;1530812299;trinque;mircea_popescu: it is musl; it is just not using a v-tree of ebuilds for its portage
1831920;1530812307;trinque;nor using ave1's gcc
1831921;1530812322;trinque;I am not persuading the bootstrap script be used
1831922;1530812338;mircea_popescu;trinque ok, help me understand this. so you have a script that a) works, in the sense of bootloading a b) gentoo which is musl-compiled but c) doesn't have a proper v tree.
1831923;1530812370;mircea_popescu;so if i use it, the resulting system will in fact permit my testing of a whole set of musl-compiled deps, system wide, such as mysql and whatever other libs eulora pulls.
1831924;1530812526;diana_coman;from the other side: why would rotor-style be a better option than using trinque's script above?
1831925;1530812565;mircea_popescu;diana_coman you mean other than because it dun require pizarro provision a box ?
1831926;1530812585;diana_coman;right; yes, indeed
1831927;1530812628;asciilifeform;the gain is strictly that it can be done 100% homedir-locally.
1831928;1530812634;asciilifeform;(on a conventional box.)
1831929;1530812653;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo (mod6, asciilifeform): http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DPsAP/?raw=true ssd tracking number
1831930;1530812657;trinque;mircea_popescu: you get a fully musltronic gentoo out of the bootstrapper which will be useful for exactly that purpose
1831931;1530812658;asciilifeform;oh hey
1831932;1530812660;asciilifeform;ty ben_vulpes
1831933;1530812661;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: ty
1831934;1530812677;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: what's in this crate ? 4 disks ?
1831935;1530812688;mircea_popescu;trinque ok so then why wouldn't i use it ? would you rather not have it tested or i don't get it ? idea here was to put the item into work see what comes out.
1831936;1530812793;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: 5 evo 860 1tb disks
1831937;1530812811;asciilifeform;danke schon, ben_vulpes
1831938;1530812825;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: bitte
1831939;1530812920;ben_vulpes;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-7-5#393729 << http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-6-21#384989
1831940;1530812923;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-07-05 17:02 mircea_popescu: 2. customer gives ~2 week early warning, and then the mark comes and goes, and customer doesn't have what he wanted.
1831941;1530812960;asciilifeform;hmm bot choked on the 2nd link ?
1831942;1530812962;ben_vulpes;i was under the impression that you wanted to wait for a machine that you could cut eulora server over to in toto
1831943;1530813070;mircea_popescu;i dunno why ; cuz i said the idea is to ~test a musl process~ ; without hosing the machine currently running it.
1831944;1530813148;mircea_popescu;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-6-21#384989
1831945;1530813148;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-06-21 19:03 ben_vulpes: end of july for the whole package
1831946;1530813163;ben_vulpes;my mistake, then.
1831947;1530813188;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i , possibly mistakenly, wait()'d on http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828294 signal.
1831948;1530813188;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 17:43 diana_coman: so then it would seem this is the best available option currently: asciilifeform can I have trinque's cuntoo on that machine when it's available?
1831949;1530813200;mircea_popescu;http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-6-20#383755 << item of interest
1831950;1530813201;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-06-20 16:30 mircea_popescu: which brings us to : ben_vulpes would pizarro be amenable to bring up the spare sometime so she makes it a full gnat musl thing, test whether we can move everything there, and either move it (so basically, moving servers) or else backing down (so basically i guess either renting both for a while or powerting back down the spare) ?
1831951;1530813217;BingoBoingo;http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-6-1#385827 << There's a box powered on inside the rack with two fuckgoats, one raid card, one disk, and a KVM plugged in for this purpose
1831952;1530813217;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-06-22 23:12 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: KVM is plugged in. Raid card, disk, and two FUCKGOATS installed
1831953;1530813230;mircea_popescu;the "a full gnat musl thing" portion seems to be satisfied by trinque 's currently published bootloader.
1831954;1530813249;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: aha. asciilifeform did this machine ever get engentooated?
1831955;1530813252;mircea_popescu;at least as best i can discern.
1831956;1530813272;asciilifeform;trinque: plox to clarify re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831920 . what would be involved in bolting it on ?
1831957;1530813272;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 17:38 trinque: nor using ave1's gcc
1831958;1530813305;asciilifeform;as i understand, diana_coman's system calls for the troo 'single gcc' toolchain, i.e. ave1's
1831959;1530813334;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: nope, i haven't touched it since receiving http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828294 signal
1831960;1530813334;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 17:43 diana_coman: so then it would seem this is the best available option currently: asciilifeform can I have trinque's cuntoo on that machine when it's available?
1831961;1530813385;asciilifeform;diana_coman: you are aware that the only means of testing a musltronic build of your proggy + deps on a conventional (glibc) box, is the rotor method, yes
1831962;1530813416;mircea_popescu;why does this have anything to do with anything ?
1831963;1530813428;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lemme find the thread, 1s
1831964;1530813452;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827987
1831965;1530813452;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 12:34 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1827977 << 're-emerge' seems to imply systemwide ? you're more or less guaranteed a borked box, muslism has to be done either rotor-style (i.e. 100% user-local build of 1 proggy at a time) or systemwide ( trinque's cuntoo ), on account of the impossibility of cleanly linking glibc libs to musl proggy or vice versa
1831966;1530813454;diana_coman;asciilifeform, trinque's script is basically proto-cuntoo as far as I understand it; and it will result in a mulstronic system so why are we talking of a glibc box?
1831967;1530813470;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i was referencing the 'let's stand up clone of dulap' variant, strictly.
1831968;1530813480;mircea_popescu;look, the bootloader thing is either musl or isn't. if it isn't, i expect trinque wants to hear about it ; whether he wants to or not i still want it said.
1831969;1530813486;asciilifeform;if trinque has a pre-alpha cuntoo for us, by all means let's fire away, and test
1831970;1530813490;mircea_popescu;and if it is, it is, and forget about all this nonsense that's already sunk an hour of time pointlessly.
1831971;1530813522;asciilifeform;trinque: can haz ?
1831972;1530813554;asciilifeform;i'd like to fill mircea_popescu's order asap.
1831973;1530813588;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I get it: clone of dulap is pointless because it requires rotor-style which can be equally done on existing server; but we are talking of having a box with trinque's musltronic proto-cuntoo
1831974;1530813595;asciilifeform;right
1831975;1530813599;asciilifeform;then we're on same page.
1831976;1530813603;mircea_popescu;cool.
1831977;1530813657;*;trinque is rerunning the current bootstrapper and will hand same to asciilifeform if/when completes successfully
1831978;1530813666;asciilifeform;yay
1831979;1530813734;phf;gentoo out of the box turned out to have all kinds of interesting surprises (i haven't ran gentoo in years, so it was interesting to see the holes through which the darkness comes). like the foo-9999999.ebuilds that just pull from the mystery github repos without any kind of checksumming
1831980;1530813756;asciilifeform;trinque: is your item packaged roughly similarly to my rockchip thing ? (i.e. a tarball that i can unpack onto an empty ext4 , and jump into ) ?
1831981;1530813773;mircea_popescu;phf ikr
1831982;1530813776;phf;asciilifeform: his is a vpatch
1831983;1530813796;trinque;no. not yet, he's getting a tarball signed
1831984;1530813800;asciilifeform;aa ok
1831985;1530813801;phf;ah
1831986;1530813843;asciilifeform;phf: indeed there were a great many ports without even a heathen gpg sig
1831987;1530813863;asciilifeform;afaik almost all had a sha2 baked into the port def tho
1831988;1530813867;asciilifeform;( fwiw )
1831989;1530813890;mircea_popescu;or a md5
1831990;1530813905;asciilifeform;i dun recall seeing md5 lulz but wouldn't rule it out
1831991;1530813908;phf;well, yes, you have all the tarbas/ebuilds have a blake in manifest, but there's no equivalent for a git repo. those are just pulled
1831992;1530813936;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo btw, here's an idea : suppose someone from pizarro were to contact ~all the "sexuality cultural war" websites out there, "feminists" "mra" whatever, and proposed pizarro sponsorship ?
1831993;1530813940;asciilifeform;phf: if you have a handy list of these lulz in your notes, plox to post
1831994;1530813948;mircea_popescu;way the fuck better than trying to "buy ads" on sites that try to sell them.
1831995;1530813961;mircea_popescu;"if stuck in africa, stick to fucking virgins" or how did it go.
1831996;1530813976;asciilifeform;this is smart. and iirc BingoBoingo has his fiber nao and is ready for battlefield.
1831997;1530814004;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: try lafonde & co too, while at it
1831998;1530814021;mircea_popescu;all of them, whatevers.
1831999;1530814030;asciilifeform;the fascists, the communists, whoever.
1832000;1530814033;mircea_popescu;most people are too shy to talk to girls ; be the girl that talks to them.
1832001;1530814047;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not like imperial ideology is meaningful in any sense anyway. might as well.
1832002;1530814091;asciilifeform;there's a whole bunch of weev types who aren't aware that anyffing like pizarro is even possible. somebody, somewhere, among'em, possibly isn't entirely tard
1832003;1530814172;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo btw, here's an idea : suppose someone from pizarro were to contact ~all the "sexuality cultural war" websites out there, "feminists" "mra" whatever, and proposed pizarro sponsorship ? << I'd actually been warming up some old accounts on these forums to do exactly this sort of thing.
1832004;1530814254;mircea_popescu;smart.
1832005;1530814286;BingoBoingo;But yes, selling webhosting to culture warriors seems riper than selling web hosting to people on web hosting forums
1832006;1530814313;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo understand, i don't even necessarily mean "sell webhosting". don't open a conversation by a pitch in any case anyway.
1832007;1530814324;mircea_popescu;no, i mean sponsorship. remember when i sponsored the what was it, 8chan maybe ?
1832008;1530814630;BingoBoingo;Ah,yes. Polite approaches, making friends
1832009;1530815045;mircea_popescu;expect a whole lot of http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/ of course ; but then again bear in mind sifting through the refuse pile of "western man" goes exactly like it goes : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831817
1832010;1530815045;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 17:02 mircea_popescu: are you aware the third that does and the two thirds that don't contain the EXACT SDAME PERCENT of seld-diagnosed smarts, intelligence etcetera ?
1832011;1530815623;BingoBoingo;Sure, incredibly common. I suspect the whole reason "crowdfunding" gets pumped is to encourage that sort of idiocy
1832012;1530815667;mircea_popescu;absolutely.
1832013;1530815849;BingoBoingo;Inca has to keep telling all the children they are special well into their 70's
1832014;1530816864;mircea_popescu;tournament markets, what happens to capitalism once the sons of unbeaten mothers in monogamous arrangements grow up.
1832015;1530822791;mircea_popescu;aaand major tropical storm / hurricane incoming.
1832016;1530822797;mircea_popescu;free connectivity testing!
1832017;1530822808;BingoBoingo;And battery testing!
1832018;1530822845;mircea_popescu;and horse floating testing!
1832019;1530822897;BingoBoingo;And motorcycle swim tests!
1832020;1530824507;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831795 << piling on to this thread ftr : ~fiddybux buys you a device that can eat, 24/7, the entire 30MHz or so usable sw spectrum, and search for whatever. pulsers can then transmit short luby slices of $block pretty much wherever in said spectrum , at various times, even regardless of ionospheric season; a % of these will get eaten by $receiver, and slowly reconstitute a valid parcel.
1832021;1530824507;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 16:40 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imo this is not even the wrong way ; will not only significantly cheapen our end, but ~all of the enemy hardware will ahve to be replaced, at capital costs far exceeding its current capacities (projected to diminish in the future as they may be)
1832022;1530824509;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831979 << indeed, none of these are making it into the final cut
1832023;1530824509;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 18:02 phf: gentoo out of the box turned out to have all kinds of interesting surprises (i haven't ran gentoo in years, so it was interesting to see the holes through which the darkness comes). like the foo-9999999.ebuilds that just pull from the mystery github repos without any kind of checksumming
1832024;1530824546;trinque;(none ought be in the bootstrapper either, as I think they're all masked, though not by any hard protocol)
1832025;1530824585;trinque;asciilifeform: happen to have a recommended SDR?
1832026;1530824667;asciilifeform;trinque: battlefield version of the hypothetical device would need a purpose-baked (fpga) sdr. but for experiment, could use e.g. 'hackrf' ( i have it, but hesitate to recommend it to others, it comes with a massive ball of open sores rubbish, really wants an ab initio driver , ars longa, etc )
1832027;1530824750;asciilifeform;the ubiquitous realtek sdr dongle is unfortunately wholly worthless for shortwave work
1832028;1530824779;asciilifeform;( i tried the chinese-made 'downconverters' to bring it into the necessary band, thus far none worked worth a sparrow's fart )
1832029;1530824816;asciilifeform;the most economical receive-only station would prolly still consist of the realtek + a (working) downconverter.
1832030;1530825035;asciilifeform;re the 'unattended relay' concept, the gnarliest sticking point is the need for a rsatron that can verify a 4096b signature in a few msec, and while running on battery/photocell, not with whole comp
1832031;1530825072;mircea_popescu;downconverting is a much stickier issue than meets the eye
1832032;1530825072;asciilifeform;the holy grail would be to stuff this into a fpga. however ice40 isn't even remotely bigenuff.
1832033;1530825168;asciilifeform;in principle, this here would be one of the rare cases where baking an asic would be a massive win (in that there's not much of a practical alternative)
1832034;1530825214;asciilifeform;if device made for unit cost of e.g. 1 $, enemy can then enjoy going bankrupt spending 5k to find each one in the woods.
1832035;1530825247;mircea_popescu;in principle.
1832036;1530825328;asciilifeform;a larger and expensive version of the item could be built conceivably with off-the-shelf iron, all it'd take is a bit of courage, can plug it in wherever one happens to have access to unguarded mains socket plus a window to string the aerial from.
1832037;1530825480;asciilifeform;box, incidentally, doesn't need to know anyffing re particulars of gossip protocol; simply verify(4096b) luby packets, rejecting old nonces, reassemble into block, and then retransmit until a newer block is assembled, then repeat ad infinitum.
1832038;1530825512;asciilifeform;( using 1 or more hardwired pubkey )
1832039;1530825708;asciilifeform;while imho this is not a 'let's do this right nao' scheme, it is prolly the Right Thing in re 'trb-i' block propagation. no moar 'block withholding' nonsense. no reason why trbi should not own ionosphere the same way mircea_popescu projected bitcoin will 'own' mains current generation capacity.
1832040;1530825900;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i misspoke re 'downconverter' for realtek, really it was ~up~converter ( realtek intake starts at 100MHz or so)
1832041;1530825905;asciilifeform;but yes, tricky
1832042;1530826044;mircea_popescu;kawaiiwhore little red tab right next to this one.
1832043;1530826065;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform certainly.
1832044;1530826491;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in peculiar difraction phenomena, https://78.media.tumblr.com/ef0f6b77e8b26bbb1819ff2eb451f3e0/tumblr_n8mvg1JFHi1tgimpio1_1280.jpg
1832045;1530827560;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform remember back when "self evident" was a thing ? legitimately, was an actual thing.
1832046;1530827599;asciilifeform;waiwat
1832047;1530827600;asciilifeform;where
1832048;1530827640;mircea_popescu;i dunno dood, i don't fucking remember having to explain anyone how to use webirc in 1998.
1832049;1530827674;asciilifeform;aa but you weren't training circus seals in '98 wereya.
1832050;1530827679;mircea_popescu;i wasn't ?
1832051;1530827687;mircea_popescu;same thing as now, really.
1832052;1530827688;asciilifeform;i dunno, were you?
1832053;1530827690;asciilifeform;hm then.
1832054;1530827708;mircea_popescu;"things that crawled out of their mother's cunt, stuck around long enough to grow a cunt of their own, and tits to go with it"
1832055;1530827712;mircea_popescu;yep, same exact thing then as now.
1832056;1530827763;asciilifeform;then nfi, perhaps backthen sov schooling and father's army belt did some of the work prior to getting'em into your circus.
1832057;1530827806;mircea_popescu;or maybe the ~COST~ of diversity is stupidity.
1832058;1530827825;mircea_popescu;because back then, yes less diveristy, and consequently, also more obviousness.
1832059;1530827826;asciilifeform;the cost of stupidity always includes moar-stupidity-later, yes
1832060;1530827898;asciilifeform;and just how many webirc scrips are there.
1832061;1530827898;mircea_popescu;somehow this never figures in the blather (also called "conversation" in-universe) : that the COST for "being inclusive to left handed people" is that a) all tools now must come with manual indicating whether left or right handed item and b) it's ambiguous, when going for a tool, which hand to go with.
1832062;1530827916;mircea_popescu;"oh, but this means 7% of kids don't get their shit beat out of them regularly ages 6-9 for THIS reason"
1832063;1530827924;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hence the old-time su (or, for that matter current-day jp) solution: There Will Not Be Lefthanders. Period.
1832064;1530827954;asciilifeform;reportedly to this very day NOTHING in jp comes in left-hand -- not desks, not toilets, not rifles in their miniature army, nuffin.
1832065;1530827959;mircea_popescu;very much like "preventing ~other people~ from smoking means 7% of the taxpayers don't die early from cancer they got ~in this manner~, so they either find some other abortion mechanism or else even worse news, they get to pass on their shitgenes)
1832066;1530827984;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there are some very strong arguments available for intolerance.
1832067;1530827989;mircea_popescu;starting with obama.
1832068;1530827993;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik it is quite difficult to smoke to death early enuff to keep from reproducing ( possibly i'm missing some detail )
1832069;1530828021;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform depends for whom.
1832070;1530828081;asciilifeform;( re 'intolerances', see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-14#1482737 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1774181 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779522 , elsewhere. )
1832071;1530828081;a111;Logged on 2016-06-14 14:25 asciilifeform: did we ever do a 'postel's law not only considered harmful but a disaster of epic proportions, quite comparable to leaded petrol' thread ?
1832072;1530828081;a111;Logged on 2018-01-22 16:40 asciilifeform: gnat has a deliberately brittle behaviour re the restriction pragmas -- if you use one it doesn't know about, it barfs. ( and i'm not even convinced that this is wrong. half of the appeal of ada is that it takes 'postel's law', rips off its head, and fucks the stump )
1832073;1530828081;a111;Logged on 2018-02-02 16:23 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die.
1832074;1530828093;mircea_popescu;but what we got for the "diverse, inclusive internet" is the move from the "sov schooling & father's army belt" 1980s where ~all kids understood most basic things naturally~ through a period of "confusion" and into this situation of smartphone and food delivery, where ~all kids understand nothing useful~.
1832075;1530828126;asciilifeform;'diverse, inclusive' has ~massive~ cost, that somebody ends up paying.
1832076;1530828136;asciilifeform;with interest.
1832077;1530828137;mircea_popescu;it'd have been a fuckhell of a lot better to NOT liberalize it, and for the effort we'd still have a bunch of sad faggots crying in the corner, AND ALSO a natural and universally confirmed expectation 20something housewife-to-be can work webirc by herself on first encounter.
1832078;1530828167;mircea_popescu;i care about how "the world was briefly better for X insignificant minority" like i care about flea pageants.
1832079;1530828249;asciilifeform;more often than not, the joke's on the insignificant minority folx.
1832080;1530828271;asciilifeform;( who do not actually get lifted to wherever level, but instead grow a set of unreasonable expectations and rage moar than before )
1832081;1530828345;mircea_popescu;ie, exactly what's going on now.
1832082;1530828365;mircea_popescu;what the "gay community" got out of the mess is that it's actually even MORE difficult for gay man to find a partner today than it was in 1980.
1832083;1530828367;asciilifeform;re gui-ism, naggum had a pretty good discussion re the resulting psychopatholigies, i cannot possibly top it
1832084;1530828374;mircea_popescu;can find a bunch of "i can't believe it's not butter"s, but...
1832085;1530828390;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: exactly like with damn near errything else.
1832086;1530828393;mircea_popescu;quite.
1832087;1530828405;asciilifeform;( in particular http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830482 )
1832088;1530828405;a111;Logged on 2018-06-27 23:41 asciilifeform: generally -- the industrialist saw the artisan as a headache, and killed him. nao we get to 'enjoy' the fruits of de-artisan'ed industry.
1832089;1530828432;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform don't remind me, i am $1000 dollars into the adventure of finding underwear for myself.
1832090;1530828445;asciilifeform;sounds exactly liek the shoes thread etc
1832091;1530828462;mircea_popescu;fucking worthless "industry" of superficial painted paper.
1832092;1530828469;asciilifeform;i'd almost expect at this point mircea_popescu would have his pets learn to sew.
1832093;1530828491;mircea_popescu;they're so god damned useful, these pointless morons, i have an assembly line of stripper-phds running all over to find the most banal of items.
1832094;1530828512;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform handsewn underwear, so help me. this is how stuff like mormonism endures, ftr.
1832095;1530828514;asciilifeform;btw if anyone ever in usa met chix born in past three,4 decades that know what sewing even is -- do post.
1832096;1530828535;asciilifeform;asciilifeform sews own, i shit thee not, buttons.
1832097;1530828539;BingoBoingo;I have met
1832098;1530828547;mircea_popescu;yes it's fundamentally stupid ; but superficially sane. and in a world that's fucking stupid throughout, the "i don't give a shit what they started with, they have x y z working processes" is quite tempting.
1832099;1530828553;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: where ? mormonistan ?
1832100;1530828585;mircea_popescu;fwiw, proper size beach towel had to be crafted, "not available" from "retailers" of "industry"
1832101;1530828586;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: You gotta look for the girls that grew up in places where "4H" is a thing
1832102;1530828602;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the agronomist society ?!
1832103;1530828615;mircea_popescu;and SAME fucking thing with bath robes. you have your choice of a) plastic, imported from miami or b) chinese notion of fluffed cotton, looks like insane asylum ware, WITH SHORT SLEEVES
1832104;1530828626;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Yes, they teach the girls to raise livestock and fix their clothing
1832105;1530828627;mircea_popescu;who and in what cloud of toxic smoke came up with short sleeved bathrobes ?!
1832106;1530828640;asciilifeform;i've yet to see shortsleeve bathrobe lol
1832107;1530828659;mircea_popescu;yet EVERY shop in this cowtown HAS IT. same exact item. everywhere. pretentious malls, built for no reason, "expensive" "brand" shops, offering... the same exact nothings.
1832108;1530828665;asciilifeform;mine loox sorta like old-style kimono, the kind to seppuku in, and is prolly 20yo at this point
1832109;1530828683;mircea_popescu;yeah well, i like inch-thick cotton stuff.
1832110;1530828687;asciilifeform;aha, it
1832111;1530828698;asciilifeform;i think it's from back home.
1832112;1530828706;mircea_popescu;i thought sepukky was silk
1832113;1530828726;asciilifeform;was speaking of the cut, not the fabric
1832114;1530828738;asciilifeform;yes, for proper seppuku attire gotta silk.
1832115;1530828745;mircea_popescu;and yes definitely from "back home", bought it in romania, was unable to replace because spanish speakers are idiots to a man, for the reason that their stupid mothers spoke a stupid language to them.
1832116;1530828775;mircea_popescu;a language dumb enough, by the way, that there's no way to distinguish between "i expect" and "i hope". espera-m-ia-i pula.
1832117;1530828791;asciilifeform;asciilifeform has this recurrent real-life nightmare erry time he has to replace a piece of ancestral tech. most recently, i shit thee not, a pillow
1832118;1530828797;asciilifeform;( fully 50 y. old, picture this )
1832119;1530828884;asciilifeform;and on subj, not long ago asciilifeform repaired, for relative, ancestral clock, what looked like cheap alarm clock but is actually an enlarged sov copy of ~swiss~ movement , made to 'cosmonaut' specs, believe
1832120;1530828917;asciilifeform;... these are just about eternal, just needs change of oil erry 3 decades or so
1832121;1530829121;asciilifeform;tell usa victim about su konsoomer ~mechanical~ clock with temperature compensation, ruby bearings, etc., he will assume you've taken lsd.
1832122;1530829152;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> a language dumb enough, by the way, that there's no way to distinguish between "i expect" and "i hope". espera-m-ia-i pula. << My eyebrows have been getting an incredible amount of exercise here
1832123;1530829169;asciilifeform;( what do you own that's worked ~continuously~ for 40+yrs without stopping ? outside of own torso )
1832124;1530829273;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1832116 << dun forget 'in'shallah' ( iirc rendered in sp as 'ojala' )
1832125;1530829273;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 22:12 mircea_popescu: a language dumb enough, by the way, that there's no way to distinguish between "i expect" and "i hope". espera-m-ia-i pula.
1832126;1530829314;asciilifeform;لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱلله(tm)(r)!!
1832127;1530829346;*;asciilifeform idly wonders whether this actually displays on anybody's box but mine
1832128;1530829581;asciilifeform;btw how the fuck does one go about writing r->l orclangs without smudging, i'd like to know.
1832129;1530829619;asciilifeform;afaik they did not like lefthanders any moar than europistan did.
1832130;1530829649;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1832131;1530830144;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform displays here.
1832132;1530830496;mircea_popescu;https://www.zdnet.com/article/cdt-pulls-the-trigger-on-180solutions-and-cjb-net-for-deceptive-and-unfair-business-practices/ << 2006 piece about item still sending referralspam.
1832133;1530835950;BingoBoingo;!!up epony
1832134;1530835951;deedbot;epony voiced for 30 minutes.
1832135;1530835990;BingoBoingo;epony: Who is your daddy and what does he do?
1832136;1530836008;epony;I'll have to ask that too.
1832137;1530836194;epony;Can you guess what the answer was?
1832138;1530836267;mircea_popescu;"little whorses" ?
1832139;1530836464;BingoBoingo;Goats?
1832140;1530836468;epony;"your mom"
1832141;1530836473;epony;almost there
1832142;1530836484;BingoBoingo;your mom?
1832143;1530836487;epony;_|_
1832144;1530836511;epony;cut the crap, what do you want?
1832145;1530836514;mircea_popescu;i guess next time i ban his whole c class. two bit shitheads on two bit shitnet with pooled ips
1832146;1530836535;epony;careful you may ban homeland
1832147;1530836541;mircea_popescu;mkay.
1832148;1530836553;epony;now can you answer a question
1832149;1530836556;epony;?
1832150;1530836575;epony;if it was you who donated..
1832151;1530836590;epony;what did you get in return?
1832152;1530841911;asciilifeform;lol the cheek.
1832153;1530841955;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831741 << grr still fighting gnuplot...
1832154;1530841955;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 13:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831734 << launches today ! ( making a few edits atm )
1832155;1530841971;asciilifeform;motherfucking opensores liquishit
1832156;1530842091;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1832157;1530842097;mircea_popescu;!#s gnuplot
1832158;1530842098;a111;18 results for "gnuplot", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gnuplot
1832159;1530842138;mircea_popescu;ah i supposed i whined on trilema directly.
1832160;1530842150;asciilifeform;1 of the things asciilifeform would luvvv to see reimplemented in a nearfyootoor sane scripting lisp
1832161;1530842179;mircea_popescu;quite.
1832162;1530842191;mircea_popescu;and i suspect the "unicode" problem is tightly bound into this.
1832163;1530842216;asciilifeform;how's that ? ( verily it is problem, but how here )
1832164;1530842224;mircea_popescu;the issue of textual->pictographic representation is a lot wider and deeper than what the imbeciles rephrased it as, and proceeded to "solve" in their usual fucktarded manbners.
1832165;1530842235;asciilifeform;aa this muchly yes
1832166;1530842412;asciilifeform;in other definitely-not-noose, turns out chechen has ( sorta like the turkic langs ) an astonishing proliferation of tenses ( e.g. you cannot say 'last night epony was impaled on scimitar', gotta specify a tense that depends on e.g. whether you personally witnessed said edifying act, and whether impaled repeatedly or merely 1 thrust, or... )
1832167;1530842526;mircea_popescu;if you recall, unicode started as "how about we produce replacement for "Box drawings vertical single and right double"
1832168;1530842539;mircea_popescu;which, incidentally, is a character you apparently ~can no longer paste~.
1832169;1530842556;mircea_popescu;but cp437-198 ftr.
1832170;1530842574;asciilifeform;hm i thought ansi 'norton' graphics made it in
1832171;1530842591;mircea_popescu;seems not.
1832172;1530842605;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/xa79A#selection-4701.0-4701.37 << items
1832173;1530842617;mircea_popescu;used to be exactly what alf says, the building blocks of "gui".
1832174;1530842733;asciilifeform;oh forfuxsake
1832175;1530842742;asciilifeform;srsly?! what did they put in its place, urdu ?
1832176;1530842754;asciilifeform;'where, sir, wouldja like this put!'
1832177;1530842758;mircea_popescu;you wouldn't want anyone to be able to make a gui without importing rust-whatever ?
1832178;1530842765;asciilifeform;nuts.
1832179;1530842771;mircea_popescu;who would want that!!!1
1832180;1530842851;asciilifeform;phunphakt -- because of insistence on supporting idjit rendering systems, they let korean ( hangul ) script eat O(N^4) space ! ( i.e. erry possible combo of subglyphs ) apparently.
1832181;1530842864;asciilifeform;because this somehow makes sense.
1832182;1530842908;asciilifeform;ditto, naturally, chinesium ( plenty of cn/jp'kanji' are decomposable into subglyphs, the amt of use made of this fact : 0 )
1832183;1530843054;asciilifeform;http://archive.is/xa79A#selection-4043.0-4055.26 >> 166 A6 Feminine ordinal indicator / 167 A7  Masculine ordinal indicator << where the fuk is this used?!
1832184;1530843105;asciilifeform;158 9E Peseta sign << lol!!
1832185;1530844248;deedbot;http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/07/05/settling-into-apartment-life/ << Bingo Blog - Settling Into Apartment Life
1832186;1530845251;mircea_popescu;meanwhile teaching girls to make zwiebelschnitzel. in french chablis, for maximal gains.
1832187;1530864847;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-june-2018-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), June 2018 Statement
1832188;1530875638;deedbot;http://ave1.org/2018/gnat-zero-foot-print-take-2-no-c/ << ave1 - GNAT Zero Foot Print - Take 2 - No C
1832189;1530880488;diana_coman;that looks good ave1
1832190;1530883544;ave1;thx diana_coman, It's now very minimal, mostly so that it can be understood as is. I'm working on adding all the code in so that at least ffa can build.
1832191;1530883598;diana_coman;what was exactly you couldn't build with gprbuild and needed the makefile for?
1832192;1530883799;ave1;the startup.S file, it needs to end up as a separate object file and not part of libgnat.a
1832193;1530883877;ave1;at least that's my understanding so far (crt1.o etc are also not part of libc.a). But maybe it is fine to put in, I haven't tried it yet.
1832194;1530884181;diana_coman;hmm, but you can in any case just write a .gpr that builds the object files for precisely the files you want, no/
1832195;1530884189;diana_coman;or there's something I don't quite follow there
1832196;1530884297;diana_coman;anyway, this might be premature ; it's more that I'm surprised gprbuild couldn't quite do what you needed
1832197;1530884543;ave1;it maybe possible to creat a stand-alone object file as target but I haven't found that option yet (so far I worked with libraries and executables).
1832198;1530884597;ave1;Also, I just checked, it is fine to put the start.o in the libgnat.a so next step may well be that the makefile can be removed again.
1832199;1530884701;diana_coman;cool
1832200;1530885023;asciilifeform;ave1: pretty neat. 1 nitpick, however: generally you don't want memcpy and memmove to be in anything but asm -- otherwise whole proggy is abominably slow ( ada proggy spends quite a bit of time clearing buffers and passing fairly large chunks of data by value )
1832201;1530885138;ave1;asciilifeform, yes that was my first reaction too. It does does something with word copying though and also individual files can be build without any of the extra gnat checks. So maybe the ada versions can be stand-ins so long as a native asm based version has not been written.
1832202;1530885180;asciilifeform;ave1: also keep in mind that you can't get away with not having the last-resort exception handler -- preconds and asserts demand it
1832203;1530885203;ave1;the last_change_handler is in there
1832204;1530885207;asciilifeform;hm
1832205;1530885217;asciilifeform;i'll read the whole thing and get back .
1832206;1530885245;ave1;the examples have two binaries, one simple hw the other triggers a constaint error
1832207;1530885254;asciilifeform;nifty
1832208;1530885566;ave1;now there was something with asserts, but I'll have to dig this up again and do a few experiments
1832209;1530885688;asciilifeform;ave1: seems like the holy grail, the bare iron gnat, is not far.
1832210;1530885725;asciilifeform;( init the x64 page table, jump, serial port for i/o )
1832211;1530885879;ave1;another holy grail, I thought the arm version was it!
1832212;1530885910;asciilifeform;!#s bare metal
1832213;1530885911;a111;49 results for "bare metal", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bare%20metal
1832214;1530885977;asciilifeform;ave1: ultimate brass ring is where we can dispense with os (in the usual sense)
1832215;1530885986;ave1;I have to practice my joke lines
1832216;1530885988;asciilifeform;lol
1832217;1530886169;ave1;btw, at this point would bare metal arm make more sense than x86? (at least some arm processors seem to be free of blobs and backdoor).
1832218;1530886184;asciilifeform;ave1: x86, arm, mips, at the very least.
1832219;1530886241;asciilifeform;asciilifeform in particular would like a gnat for mips, given as the latter actually fits in an ice40
1832220;1530886298;asciilifeform;i took a shot at building one back in 2016, but ran into a buncha gnarl, which ave1 at this point seems to have mostly resolved
1832221;1530886318;ave1;yes, did you ever hear anything back from the russian mips producers?
1832222;1530886323;asciilifeform;nope
1832223;1530886326;asciilifeform;not 1 answered.
1832224;1530886346;ave1;It seems that the American one (Cavium?) is also unobtainable
1832225;1530886350;asciilifeform;the ice40 breakthrough however means that we can be own mips producer.
1832226;1530886362;asciilifeform;it won't be world's fastest, but will work.
1832227;1530886437;asciilifeform;( and possibly can roll in not only mips, but e.g. a custom instruction for bounds checking )
1832228;1530886491;ave1;I could see if I can port gnat to qemu-mips
1832229;1530886527;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2RPis/?raw=true << example. schoolbook mips
1832230;1530886530;ave1;Any MIPS verilog / vhdl code you can point too?
1832231;1530886535;asciilifeform;see above.
1832232;1530886540;ave1;Answered before asked
1832233;1530886625;ave1;thx! now if anyone can be bother to design a board with multiple ice40
1832234;1530886632;asciilifeform;1 will suffice.
1832235;1530886660;asciilifeform;the simplest (text i/o only) mips emul asciilifeform likes, is 'gxemul' , should suffice to test.
1832236;1530886673;asciilifeform;no particular need for qemu.
1832237;1530886691;ave1;thx, I will look into it
1832238;1530886756;ave1;I see, I'll have to learn verilog, I did not know you could implement a processor with so little code
1832239;1530886790;asciilifeform;ave1: FUCKGOATS src http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis makes as good an intro to verilogism as any imho
1832240;1530886819;asciilifeform;( illustrates a (write-only) serial uart, for instance )
1832241;1530886829;asciilifeform;and state machine, etc
1832242;1530886995;asciilifeform;approx same level of complexity as that little mips.
1832243;1530887051;asciilifeform;it eats 71 of the 72 logic cells in the old xilinx cpld.
1832244;1530887065;asciilifeform;( ice40 is about a dozen times larger )
1832245;1530887217;asciilifeform;ice40, unlike the xilinx cplds, also includes 32kB of onboard sram. so possibly can have small cache, or extra registers, or some other useful item.
1832246;1530887240;*;asciilifeform brb,tea
1832247;1530887578;ave1;I was reading through the fg design (doing experiments with circuit simulators to see how the RNG might work etc). I'll just continue with the next step.
1832248;1530890437;asciilifeform;ave1: iirc you also have an actual FG, can experiment with that.
1832249;1530890499;asciilifeform;ave1: feel free to ask q if you end up puzzled in re particulars.
1832250;1530890516;asciilifeform;( the src is pedantically, painfully commented, but whoknows )
1832251;1530890709;asciilifeform;ave1: simulator won't give you much useful to work with re analogue rng, considering that it relies on amplification of physical (johnson) noise
1832252;1530892222;asciilifeform;in other noose, herr asahara hangs.
1832253;1530892270;asciilifeform;( took'em... 23 yrs )
1832254;1530894685;trinque;asciilifeform: cuntoo tarball uploadin, poast shortly
1832255;1530894691;asciilifeform;oh neat
1832256;1530894758;asciilifeform;!!up Bigtexasbingo
1832257;1530894758;deedbot;Bigtexasbingo voiced for 30 minutes.
1832258;1530894788;Bigtexasbingo;Is it just me or did that French team not look very French
1832259;1530894819;Bigtexasbingo;Fuckkng golden state warriors of Africa
1832260;1530894860;Bigtexasbingo;Nigger all stars versus a country trying to be a nation
1832261;1530894871;Bigtexasbingo;Trampa!!!
1832262;1530894905;Bigtexasbingo;L
1832263;1530894915;Bigtexasbingo;Fraud ball
1832264;1530894919;mircea_popescu;hey, colonial empires. england's all injuns and france's all africans for a coupla centuries now.
1832265;1530894943;mircea_popescu;sadly for the us, they're all latinos. and it shows.
1832266;1530895107;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832198 << /me following this quite excitedly.
1832267;1530895107;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 13:43 ave1: Also, I just checked, it is fine to put the start.o in the libgnat.a so next step may well be that the makefile can be removed again.
1832268;1530895144;mircea_popescu;i like his approach, ftr. tempered ingenuity, wiggle things one at a time towards the greater goal.
1832269;1530895176;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a finger's length of asm away from iron gnat.
1832270;1530895186;mircea_popescu;just about
1832271;1530895205;mircea_popescu;and not even a long finger, he just doesn't comfortably asm is all.
1832272;1530895232;asciilifeform;funnily enuff asciilifeform posted the necessary asm a while back, but grrr can't find in log yet
1832273;1530895255;mircea_popescu;maybe we should asm the log, simplify array access :D
1832274;1530895255;asciilifeform;( all you gotta do is to bring up the x64 pagetable and the uart, and you're home )
1832275;1530895260;asciilifeform;lol
1832276;1530895277;mircea_popescu;anyway, let him be, this part can be easily patched in later anyway.
1832277;1530895282;asciilifeform;verily
1832278;1530895541;mircea_popescu;did i ever tell you the story of ye olde 8086 friend had that could drop into asm-er from bios ?
1832279;1530895557;asciilifeform;the packard bell thing, with the int19 debugger ?
1832280;1530895559;mircea_popescu;this "iron-gnat", i'm not even sure it's clear what a cool system it could make.
1832281;1530895580;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform possibly.
1832282;1530895667;mircea_popescu;thinking about this, it's fucking evident what difference the online made for the thinking mind. yes i was a child, but child or no child, it didn't occur to me that i must have a gns link to the item that i like. "this" and pointing was an acceptable manner of reference in the 90s, because why the hell wouldn't it be and what's a global namespace anyway.
1832283;1530895675;mircea_popescu;very much the exact opposite of http://trilema.com/2011/ce-am-pierdut-si-voi-n-ati-avut/ discussion.
1832284;1530895701;mircea_popescu;!!up Bigtexasbingo
1832285;1530895702;deedbot;Bigtexasbingo voiced for 30 minutes.
1832286;1530895705;asciilifeform;see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544272 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-19#1605443 , elsewhere.
1832287;1530895705;a111;Logged on 2016-09-17 18:06 asciilifeform: now switching from the depressive tack, to the crackpot track, i ~did~ get high speed uart going on one of those all-in-one amd64 boxes.
1832288;1530895705;a111;Logged on 2017-01-19 23:35 asciilifeform: theoretically you can, e.g., host www on just an uart.
1832289;1530895802;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832215 << you definitely do.
1832290;1530895802;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 14:06 ave1: I have to practice my joke lines
1832291;1530895819;Bigtexasbingo;Trampa
1832292;1530895846;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832217 << really ? name one ?
1832293;1530895846;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 14:09 ave1: btw, at this point would bare metal arm make more sense than x86? (at least some arm processors seem to be free of blobs and backdoor).
1832294;1530895884;Bigtexasbingo;Just the colo. Rock chips
1832295;1530895922;mircea_popescu;ya well.
1832296;1530895939;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, apparently "screensaver" on "graphical linux", all flavours, BREAKS OPEN PIPES.
1832297;1530895985;mircea_popescu;i don't understand how they propose anyone use those things. "here's a pile of very important features that you must turn off one by one in order to get the box bacl"
1832298;1530896053;mircea_popescu;who the fuck even ships a "screensaver", what is this, the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831830 future ?!
1832299;1530896053;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 17:15 asciilifeform: in fact, this sorta happened, recall the early crt tv and its xray killzone
1832300;1530896054;Bigtexasbingo;Brb, trying to conseguir un nave
1832301;1530896080;mircea_popescu;see Bigtexasbingo , online piracy, gatweay drug to marine piracy.
1832302;1530896101;mircea_popescu;next you'll be having sex, and who knows what other unspeakable horrors banned in boston.
1832303;1530896173;mircea_popescu;Oh, thou demon Drink, thou fell destroyer; thou curse of society, and its greatest annoyer. What hast thou done to society, let me think? I answer thou hast caused the most of ills, thou demon Drink.
1832304;1530896187;mircea_popescu;Thou causeth the mother to neglect her child, also the father to act as he were wild, so that he neglects his loving wife and family dear, by spending his earnings foolishly on whisky, rum and beer.
1832305;1530896203;mircea_popescu;And after spending his earnings foolishly he beats his wife -- the man that promised to protect her during life -- and so the man would if there was no drink in society, for seldom a man beats his wife in a state of sobriety.
1832306;1530896208;mircea_popescu;and so on.
1832307;1530896252;mircea_popescu;o wow that's his irc client ? i thought he literally meant "mother".
1832308;1530896292;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832227 << this. "not as fast, but at least useful" (tm)
1832309;1530896292;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 14:13 asciilifeform: ( and possibly can roll in not only mips, but e.g. a custom instruction for bounds checking )
1832310;1530896367;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832233 << there's all that discussion of fabric fabrication...
1832311;1530896367;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 14:17 ave1: thx! now if anyone can be bother to design a board with multiple ice40
1832312;1530896773;mircea_popescu;phf do you remember why ave1 's thing isn't in http://btcbase.org/patches ?
1832313;1530896805;mircea_popescu;http://ave1.org/2018/gnat-and-zero-foot-print-runtimes/ & now http://ave1.org/2018/gnat-zero-foot-print-take-2-no-c/
1832314;1530896844;mircea_popescu;ave1 re http://ave1.org/2018/gnat-and-zero-foot-print-runtimes/#comment-38 btw, what became of dlopen ?
1832315;1530896854;asciilifeform;ok here goes, ftr : http://loper-os.org/pub/x86-64-toystore-os.tar.gz >> sha512==e292a6d4296bc3cc63d2bc78bb7def807f7c4e9f8e630b292afec00b08c1fc2f8eeff5d074560804828ee7aee8ab5e43e698436c203c990d994863882e51446a
1832316;1530896865;asciilifeform;i will put in the log, what this is, and how to eat it
1832317;1530896927;mircea_popescu;" The hello world example from the previous installment can be build and it's size inspected. It is now at 2.6k (down from 54k) on my computer" aaa yes
1832318;1530896946;mircea_popescu;ave1 "can be built*"
1832319;1530896949;asciilifeform;'make emu' builds variant that runs in qemu and (if you have x86-64 qemu) boots it. 'make sage' ditto but boots on a cold sage ( see http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1887 & elsewhere ) . 'make sage-warm' boots on a warm sage.
1832320;1530896981;asciilifeform;there is a x86-64 pagetable unit, and uart init. some of the routines are in c, but quite simple to translate. there is a heathen printf, can tear it out, or use for hexdumps etc.
1832321;1530896995;asciilifeform;'make dis' shits out disasm of whole thing
1832322;1530897005;asciilifeform;'make emu-dbg' boots in qemu in singlestep mode.
1832323;1530897036;asciilifeform;the demo mainproggy, rom.c, simply prints 'Halted.' to the uart and hangs forever.
1832324;1530897071;asciilifeform;to build , needs nasm + any gcc whatsoever ( gnat oughta work )
1832325;1530897082;mircea_popescu;^ worth a check btw.
1832326;1530897115;asciilifeform;worx in asciilifeform's old gnat.
1832327;1530897131;mircea_popescu;nice
1832328;1530897164;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831980 << no, it's a script that'll build the system from scratch, using a snapshot of external deps
1832329;1530897164;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 18:02 asciilifeform: trinque: is your item packaged roughly similarly to my rockchip thing ? (i.e. a tarball that i can unpack onto an empty ext4 , and jump into ) ?
1832330;1530897171;asciilifeform;hmm seems like i forgot to include the sage gdb loaders, 1s
1832331;1530897235;mircea_popescu;a minimal os + custom built fs (doubling as bitcoin specific db ; possibly written as raid firmware at least in part) + proper net driver (i really don't need iptables ad-hoc scripting lang to do what evidently and universally bitcoin node has to do) + grandfather pistols bitcoin code => an actual definitive package.
1832332;1530897247;mircea_popescu;ie, we've managed to stockade it, at least. digestion can then proceed.
1832333;1530897273;asciilifeform;updated the taball, new sha512==6b131ba3529ae9856f0befa260c1a477b068197a9e3b24571308c528bc1373c2ca71f6065e1146dbe9329f115a2fe53469f0d7528a729f73194d75365e7f63f8
1832334;1530897278;asciilifeform;now includes whole thing.
1832335;1530897309;asciilifeform;the interesting from 'iron gnat' etc pov, is the *.asm .
1832336;1530897330;asciilifeform;boot_qemu.asm is the minimal x86-64 init and stage1 loader.
1832337;1530897367;asciilifeform;rom.ld is the linker memorymap magic, also educational, produces a bootable kernel.
1832338;1530897398;asciilifeform;not counting the printf or the makefile, 495 lines.
1832339;1530897455;asciilifeform;*tarball
1832340;1530897534;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: to bake a e.g. iron trbi, or the like, you'd need to init and talk to the sata card, this is not given in the example ( but not particularly difficult )
1832341;1530897547;asciilifeform;would need nic also ( see the old nic thread )
1832342;1530897555;ave1;mircea_popescu, dlopen part is from the gnu libc, the init code (even for the static code) in gnu libs depends on functions from the dlopen.o.  I think that then causes the whole dlopen.o to be included. I never could get the definite mapping (ld allows you to create a map but it was not helpful)
1832343;1530897576;asciilifeform;the given demo gives you uart and that's it. ( hypothetically could internet over uart, ye olde 'slip/ppp' )
1832344;1530897585;ave1;I next tried to rip out the specific calls but these caused immediate segfaults
1832345;1530897586;deedbot;http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/ << trinque - Cuntoo Bootstrapper Preview
1832346;1530897636;ave1;Then I decided I could better spend my time on musl than trying to salvage anything from gnu libc
1832347;1530897787;asciilifeform;ave1: this is The Right Thing, let glibc go to the bottom of the sea where it belongs.
1832348;1530897857;trinque;anybody that wants to help verify the portage genesis.vpatch later oughta try building the musl gentoo in my post.
1832349;1530897871;trinque;maybe PeterL or danielpbarron want to give it a try too
1832350;1530897901;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform right.
1832351;1530897919;asciilifeform;trinque: currently massaging ch11 of ffa series, right after this will test-fire your opus
1832352;1530897921;mircea_popescu;ave1 yes, just saying, mapping that out would be useful.
1832353;1530897968;mircea_popescu;because as it happens this is ready knob for "distinguish man from child". i can ask people, "but does your '''project''' dlopen" and well...
1832354;1530897975;trinque;asciilifeform: roger
1832355;1530898030;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: whole thrust behind asciilifeform's initial colonization of musl was to be rid of dlopen() etc
1832356;1530898037;mircea_popescu;at this juncture i feel obligated to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-23#1789029
1832357;1530898037;a111;Logged on 2018-03-23 04:14 douchebag: Okay, why do you guys liek arguing so much? Is this why you guys don't get anything done?
1832358;1530898045;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you don't say!
1832359;1530898057;asciilifeform;heh
1832360;1530898349;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832308 << to expand on this, with the linked mips example, already can haz e.g. 32bit cpu with no pipeline, no cache, etc ~but~ fits in ice40.
1832361;1530898349;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 16:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832227 << this. "not as fast, but at least useful" (tm)
1832362;1530898438;asciilifeform;ice40 + a coupla MB of sram -- and you can (not very quickly, but) crypto.
1832363;1530898553;asciilifeform;should even be enuff gates left over to roll in FG logic.
1832364;1530899885;asciilifeform;!!up Bigtexasbingo
1832365;1530899885;deedbot;Bigtexasbingo voiced for 30 minutes.
1832366;1530900113;mircea_popescu;lmao. let's ban him ?
1832367;1530901487;mircea_popescu;meanwhile " In 2014 Dundee was recognised by the United Nations as the UK's first UNESCO City of Design for its diverse contributions to fields including medical research, comics and video games."
1832368;1530901493;mircea_popescu;just thought you folks would like to know.
1832369;1530901569;diana_coman;si pentru spiritul tovarasesc!
1832370;1530901589;mircea_popescu;lol
1832371;1530901595;mircea_popescu;au si ei caracal.
1832372;1530902705;asciilifeform;caracal?! the african wild cat ??
1832373;1530902731;mircea_popescu;city in the dumb-but-cocky part of romania, famous principally for the "seven wonders of stupidty"
1832374;1530902736;asciilifeform;ahahaha
1832375;1530902740;mircea_popescu;including building in a large crane, that couldn't be extracred any longer
1832376;1530902759;asciilifeform;догоним и перегоним америку (tm)(r)
1832377;1530902770;mircea_popescu;(ro used the prefab construction process -- first, send mining equipment, flatten land ; then, put in rail ; then, roll out a rail crane, and roll prefab on cars up to it ; then move the derivation
1832378;1530902781;mircea_popescu;can make 1mn sqm of hruscheba per week with this
1832379;1530902788;asciilifeform;same method as used here.
1832380;1530902798;mircea_popescu;aha.
1832381;1530902812;asciilifeform;( in usa hruscheba is build in ~week or 2, as they make from cardboard )
1832382;1530902827;mircea_popescu;these were the original prefab, poured concrete.
1832383;1530902837;mircea_popescu;20 tons per panel or somesuch.
1832384;1530902842;asciilifeform;well yes, as seen in literally erry place other than usa and perhaps jp )
1832385;1530902868;asciilifeform;( in montevideo asciilifeform saw perfectly on-spec hruschebas , panels & all )
1832386;1530902877;mircea_popescu;aha.
1832387;1530902882;mircea_popescu;aanyways, shall bbl.
1832388;1530904079;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832296 << curious what this was about. ... open ssh pipes ? i've yet to see this wonder. dollars to doughnuts it's a shituntu etc box with acpi sleep .
1832389;1530904079;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 16:52 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, apparently "screensaver" on "graphical linux", all flavours, BREAKS OPEN PIPES.
1832390;1530904135;asciilifeform;winblowz style. can kill it either in bios setup or somewhere in the heathen configs.
1832391;1530904147;asciilifeform;( or better yet, just say no to shituntu )
1832392;1530914661;BingoBoingo;The abject sadness in this town
1832393;1530914874;BingoBoingo;Of all the people who could be sad, the Brasileros are saddest
1832394;1530915212;BingoBoingo;Who would have thought Brasileros could be sad about fraudball?
1832395;1530915231;BingoBoingo;Brb still shopping for at least a frigate
1832396;1530918248;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832312 << there's no reason, i literally just returned from the walk where i remembered some outstanding things i need to do, that was one of them.
1832397;1530918248;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 17:06 mircea_popescu: phf do you remember why ave1 's thing isn't in http://btcbase.org/patches ?
1832398;1530918276;phf;i think there's also something from esthlos..
1832399;1530918342;trinque;yep, dood has a vtron
1832400;1530918392;phf;ah yes, i thought there was something else. does his vtron use keccak by the way, or it's still a shasum -a 512 call out?
1832401;1530918538;trinque;as I recall just walks the strings present in that position in the vpatches
1832402;1530918549;trinque;can't say off the top of my head if it works with the keccak ones (oughta), but gotta run for now
1832403;1530918585;phf;ty, i'll take a look anyway
1832404;1530918780;trinque;shells out to patch, perhaps the intent there was to end up with an external patch util that understands vpatch hashes. esthlos, maybe shed light?
1832405;1530918782;trinque;bbl
1832406;1530918938;phf;considering the slow adoption of the keccak approach and also a large number of existing sha512 patches, i'm planning on doing a regrind where i merge the keccak and the sha branches together, so that vpatch/vdiff can produce both hashes on a switch, until further notice.
1832407;1530919772;phf;ave1: http://ave1.org/tarpit/tmsr-pgp-genesis.ave1.sig is missing
1832408;1530919806;phf;!Q later tell ave1 ^
1832409;1530919806;lobbesbot;phf: The operation succeeded.
1832410;1530920404;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831298 << unless you have particular preferences, i'm going to throw it into the same patchset as ircbot. it'll follow the grand ircbot tradition of a genesis that never the less relies on the adjacent patches
1832411;1530920404;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 12:07 spyked: ^ phf, can you pl0x add this to the btcbase patch list? and http://lucian.mogosanu.ro/src/trilemabot/ ?
1832412;1530920841;phf;!!key ave1
1832413;1530920843;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/57EE94EA6F2049A47DAFA8568F4CE8F777BC59F9.asc
1832414;1530920861;phf;!!key esthlos
1832415;1530920862;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/EDB93AD2CAB28398010B46D025C71657FDA71DC2.asc
1832416;1530926145;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes.
1832417;1530926448;mircea_popescu;phf define slow adoption!!
1832418;1530930998;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in truly obscure niche news nobody could possibly give a shit about, http://www.laughspin.com/
1832419;1530931006;mircea_popescu;also, .ovh is a tld now.
1832420;1530931334;mircea_popescu;http://www.laughspin.com/lahna-turner-how-i-lost-500-pounds-guest-post/ << this is possibly the shittiest "creative writing" 16yo paper i ever had to score
1832421;1530931360;mircea_popescu;"and i score it F, for get the Fuck off the premises, whore. education's not for everybody."
1832422;1530931399;asciilifeform;holyfuq what is this, scraped from bottom of spam trap ?
1832423;1530931751;mircea_popescu;hey, maybe BingoBoingo wants to talk to dylan for advertising strategic partnership. replace the uberlulzy http://pixel.indieclick.com/annonymous/ block that serves me 3 instances of the same idiotic "Millonarios quieren prohibir este video - ¡Míralo!"
1832424;1530931795;mircea_popescu;anyway, retard's got a personal website, too. "Watch Limeade a comedic homage to Beyonce’s “Lemonade,”. Heartbreak turns into laughter in this comedy visual music album."
1832425;1530935025;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/sales-report-june-2018/ << lobbesblog - Sales Report: June 2018
1832426;1530937553;mircea_popescu;lobbes (and whoever might care, BingoBoingo asciilifeform ?) in re http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/sales-report-june-2018/#selection-171.12-175.51 : consider the bounty of the internets is indeed great. take for instance : http://www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-04.txt
1832427;1530937562;mircea_popescu;actually... i suppose might as well get the whole pile archived
1832428;1530937570;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-04.txt
1832429;1530937570;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-05.txt
1832430;1530937570;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-06.txt
1832431;1530937570;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-08.txt
1832432;1530937570;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-09.txt
1832433;1530937571;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-11.txt
1832434;1530937575;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-13.txt
1832435;1530937577;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-14.txt
1832436;1530937579;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-16.txt
1832437;1530937581;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-18.txt
1832438;1530937583;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-19.txt
1832439;1530937585;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-20.txt
1832440;1530937587;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-23.txt
1832441;1530937589;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-24.txt
1832442;1530937591;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-25.txt
1832443;1530937593;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-27.txt
1832444;1530937595;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-06-29.txt
1832445;1530937597;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-01.txt
1832446;1530937599;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-02.txt
1832447;1530937601;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-04.txt
1832448;1530937605;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-06.txt
1832449;1530937607;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-07.txt
1832450;1530937609;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-08.txt
1832451;1530937612;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-09.txt
1832452;1530937613;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-10.txt
1832453;1530937615;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-14.txt
1832454;1530937617;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-14.txt
1832455;1530937619;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-16.txt
1832456;1530937621;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-17.txt
1832457;1530937623;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-20.txt
1832458;1530937625;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-23.txt
1832459;1530937627;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_BIZOPP_2015-07-24.txt
1832460;1530937629;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-07-26.txt
1832461;1530937631;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-13.txt
1832462;1530937635;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-15.txt
1832463;1530937637;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-17.txt
1832464;1530937639;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-19.txt
1832465;1530937641;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-22.txt
1832466;1530937643;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-26.txt
1832467;1530937645;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-27.txt
1832468;1530937647;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-08-28.txt
1832469;1530937649;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-01.txt
1832470;1530937651;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-02.txt
1832471;1530937653;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-10.txt
1832472;1530937655;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-12.txt
1832473;1530937657;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-15.txt
1832474;1530937659;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-16.txt
1832475;1530937661;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-17.txt
1832476;1530937665;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-09-28.txt
1832477;1530937667;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10727_SWEEPS_2015-10-02.txt
1832478;1530937669;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-04.txt
1832479;1530937671;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-12.txt
1832480;1530937673;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-13.txt
1832481;1530937675;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-14.txt
1832482;1530937677;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-20.txt
1832483;1530937679;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-22.txt
1832484;1530937681;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-24.txt
1832485;1530937683;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-25.txt
1832486;1530937685;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-06-29.txt
1832487;1530937687;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-01.txt
1832488;1530937689;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-02.txt
1832489;1530937691;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-06.txt
1832490;1530937695;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-07.txt
1832491;1530937697;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-09.txt
1832492;1530937699;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-10.txt
1832493;1530937701;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-12.txt
1832494;1530937703;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-13.txt
1832495;1530937705;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-14.txt
1832496;1530937707;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-16.txt
1832497;1530937709;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-17.txt
1832498;1530937711;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-20.txt
1832499;1530937713;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-26.txt
1832500;1530937715;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-28.txt
1832501;1530937717;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-07-29.txt
1832502;1530937719;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-01.txt
1832503;1530937721;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-09.txt
1832504;1530937725;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-10.txt
1832505;1530937727;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-12.txt
1832506;1530937729;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-17.txt
1832507;1530937731;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-18.txt
1832508;1530937733;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-19.txt
1832509;1530937735;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-22.txt
1832510;1530937737;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-23.txt
1832511;1530937739;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-24.txt
1832512;1530937741;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-25.txt
1832513;1530937743;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-08-27.txt
1832514;1530937745;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-12.txt
1832515;1530937747;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-14.txt
1832516;1530937749;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-16.txt
1832517;1530937751;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-19.txt
1832518;1530937755;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-20.txt
1832519;1530937757;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-21.txt
1832520;1530937759;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-25.txt
1832521;1530937761;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-26.txt
1832522;1530937763;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-27.txt
1832523;1530937765;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-29.txt
1832524;1530937767;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-30.txt
1832525;1530937769;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-09-30.txt
1832526;1530937771;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-10-02.txt
1832527;1530937773;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-10-04.txt
1832528;1530937775;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_LIVEFEEDS_2015-10-07.txt
1832529;1530937777;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10615_143_Instantcheckmate_2015-08-29.txt
1832530;1530937779;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10615_143_Instantcheckmate_2015-08-30.txt
1832531;1530937781;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10615_143_Instantcheckmate_2015-09-01.txt
1832532;1530937785;mircea_popescu;www.updates4news.com/kyledata/KyleS_10615_143_Instantcheckmate_2015-09-10.txt
1832533;1530937787;mircea_popescu;(as per the letter of the law, perfectly legitimate "business contacts" of everyone reading, seeing how you know the "requisite details" to distinguish ill-colored email from crown-blessed-color colored email.)
1832534;1530938461;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, if anything says "african woman" better than http://archive.is/Sk6m9#selection-3443.0-3449.1 i wish to know what. because honestly...
1832535;1530949053;mircea_popescu;hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AAQhF/?raw=true
1832536;1530962987;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html << The Tar Pit - May-June 2018 Shithub SSH key harvest, data and preliminary analysis
1832537;1530963055;spyked;^ asciilifeform, this is all yours. let me know if there's anything I missed, the archive is in "phathub" format.
1832538;1530963072;spyked;for the impatient: the download link for the data is at the bottom of the post.
1832539;1530963555;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832410 <-- ty phf! yeah, that works. though eventually it will be reground into a single tree, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818999
1832540;1530963555;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 23:40 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831298 << unless you have particular preferences, i'm going to throw it into the same patchset as ircbot. it'll follow the grand ircbot tradition of a genesis that never the less relies on the adjacent patches
1832541;1530963555;a111;Logged on 2018-05-25 22:14 mircea_popescu: afaik ben_vulpes made one and trinque the other or somesuch. in general, the cause for this is author1 thinks author2 is an idiot.
1832542;1530963651;spyked;btw trinque, I'm getting back to trilemabot-works next week, so I can do the regrind after trilemabot part ii if that's too deep in your queue.
1832543;1530963948;spyked;spoilers: trilemabot-ii will publish prefixed command handling for irc bots. since I'm not the first to implement this, I'll be eager to have curious eyes examining it once it's up.
1832544;1530965432;spyked;and in log reviews: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-28#1830519 <-- I used to read that some years ago. the references to greek mythology aren't too terrible -- for a comic. otherwise same 'ol steampunk medieval romanticization.
1832545;1530965432;a111;Logged on 2018-06-28 05:05 mircea_popescu: "A brief page with a few annotations about the Girl Genius web comic, for which a link banner appears to the right, is now on this site." holy shit that's terriblty drawn
1832546;1530970027;asciilifeform;spyked: does the csv consist strictly of the rsa keys, or all of'em ? ( asciilifeform currently cannot use non-rsa keys for anyffing )
1832547;1530970078;asciilifeform;aite, i'ma grab the tarball & see.
1832548;1530970155;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lol, megatonne of aol !
1832549;1530970250;asciilifeform;spyked: the 'Not Found' keys are not necessarily spamological : many of the earlier items featured in http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-things-that-didnt-happen-today-heres-192-cracked-github-keys-some-hotties-in-tech-included-yes/ today return same eggog if you try to load'em from shithub
1832550;1530970292;asciilifeform;seems to mean simply that key (not necessarily entire luser's acct) was deleted at some point.
1832551;1530970370;asciilifeform;'As per the figures above, there were only about 4.6 million RSA keys in existence on GitHub on the 1st of July 2018, as opposed to the approximately 6.9 million found by JuroV' << i suspect that the culprit is the massed usg thrust towards 'use ecdsa nao!'
1832552;1530971230;spyked;asciilifeform, phathub file contains RSA e and N only. but that's a good point, should also post the other ones under some raw form.
1832553;1530971256;spyked;well, e, N and metadata
1832554;1530973533;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform butofcourse.
1832555;1530974104;mircea_popescu;spyked the ~drawing~ is fucking terrible. and not merely terrible, but i can tell from its bruteforced stupidity exactly how the writing goes, because it's evident enough the same mind does both and how that sort of mind goes.
1832556;1530974125;mircea_popescu;author should be whipped to death in public square, as far as i'm concerned ; and all others like him alongside.
1832557;1530974554;asciilifeform;spyked: thx for the fodder, i've started up the converter.
1832558;1530974599;mircea_popescu;imo the 6.9 -> 4.6 mn drop (ONE THIRD! in a coupla years!) is the news item of the month, year, whatever.
1832559;1530974616;mircea_popescu;demographically worse than a ww1.
1832560;1530974685;mircea_popescu;re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-149.0-153.220 : you should see the "easy to detect" over @ fetlife, fucktards have five dozen DIFFERENT failure modes, all of them ujust as "specifically laid out". bot code is 60% "handle inept error pages" by mass. so fucking evident it's the result of "incremental development", too.
1832561;1530974729;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 6.9 -> 4.6 was in re rsa strictly, unless i misread
1832562;1530974745;mircea_popescu;so ?
1832563;1530974763;mircea_popescu;"the drop was in re men only, they have neotenic children now to make up the difference". mmmkay ?
1832564;1530974767;asciilifeform;so the lemmings moved to ec
1832565;1530974780;asciilifeform;lolyea
1832566;1530974789;mircea_popescu;they moved to sucking on my cock.
1832567;1530974848;mircea_popescu;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-173.58-173.68 << the game they play is "growth velocity" and "user counts". so...
1832568;1530974873;mircea_popescu;same thing on every other graham-andreessen shitweb "project" or w/e they call them, "leader blabla".
1832569;1530974891;mircea_popescu;socialist capitalism all about dilution, inescapable fundament of the pile.
1832570;1530974979;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform re "moved on to sucking my cock" : http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-185.0-189.0
1832571;1530974987;mircea_popescu;ie, ~same distribution as in 2016.
1832572;1530975003;asciilifeform;oh hah
1832573;1530975076;asciilifeform;incidentally nao that shithub has been officially absorbed into microshit, i expect there will be a 'digg -> reddit'-style exodus of deps to some new 'designated opposition' snakepit. but dunno where this is, yet.
1832574;1530975084;asciilifeform;*of derps
1832575;1530975099;mircea_popescu;psssssh. i don't.
1832576;1530975124;asciilifeform;possibly my head is stuck in 1990s.
1832577;1530975142;asciilifeform;but historically they always make a 'opposition' snakepit, 'can of pepsi on the left' etc
1832578;1530975194;mircea_popescu;imo this is well expired.
1832579;1530975240;asciilifeform;possibly; i've nfi
1832580;1530975530;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw you may find it interesting that some unknown % of shithub accts are commercial worker bees, thing is commonly used by small software corps in usa for storage
1832581;1530975543;asciilifeform;luser count drop could easily be from simple unemployment
1832582;1530975562;mircea_popescu;not really. thing is used by aspiring spam "companies" the world over to "build history" so they can become candidates for money laundering "acquisitions" later on.
1832583;1530975572;mircea_popescu;it's a whole chumpatron, doing away with your social security & pension funds.
1832584;1530975573;asciilifeform;( and/or folx getting their shit together and moving their repo to actual box in-house )
1832585;1530975593;mircea_popescu;if you wanna one day be groupon, best start "building evidence" today.
1832586;1530975615;asciilifeform;well yes , that's what typical usa 'software co' ~does~
1832587;1530975655;mircea_popescu;right. might as well use realistic terminology rather than their in-universe nonsensical wank.
1832588;1530976054;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, what i'm waiting for is you discovering there's ~1% NEW keys in that 4.6mn pile. after which we can simply declare github ie "technology" production in the empire dead and move on.
1832589;1530976081;*;mircea_popescu transparently has about as much respect for the intellectual productions of north america as for the intellectual productions of the gabon republic.
1832590;1530977011;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/italian-government-working-on-exit-from-f-35-program/ << Qntra - Italian Government Working On Exit From F-35 Program
1832591;1530978525;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fwiw it wouldn't astonish me if 0 new keys.
1832592;1530979170;mircea_popescu;right.
1832593;1530979186;mircea_popescu;in otherr lulz, chick tastes my steak, "Hey, this isn't steak tartare ; this is steak a la mode"
1832594;1530982323;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832404 << my vtron doesn't include a vdiffer or a patch-applier. was this an oversight?
1832595;1530982323;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 23:13 trinque: shells out to patch, perhaps the intent there was to end up with an external patch util that understands vpatch hashes. esthlos, maybe shed light?
1832596;1530982350;asciilifeform;waiwaaat
1832597;1530982358;asciilifeform;'my axe doesn't include a handle or blade, is this oversight' ?!
1832598;1530982474;esthlos;well there is vtools for vdiff, right?
1832599;1530982799;mircea_popescu;i am confused.
1832600;1530982828;asciilifeform;looking again at his coad, seems like it simply calls out ( just like my vtron did ) to patch util
1832601;1530982855;mircea_popescu;ok, but if he doesn't calculate hashes what's he do
1832602;1530982883;esthlos;mircea_popescu: it matches hashes to build the dependency graph
1832603;1530982901;asciilifeform;http://blog.esthlos.com/esthlos-v-genesis-or-who-presses-the-pressor/ << subj
1832604;1530982909;mircea_popescu;to match them it must calculate them.
1832605;1530982944;esthlos;they are already lying in the vpatch file though. what am I missing?
1832606;1530982957;mircea_popescu;dude.
1832607;1530982973;mircea_popescu;why the fuck would you trust some random number from a file.
1832608;1530983002;mircea_popescu;you don't check seals, either ?
1832609;1530983005;esthlos;well, file is signed
1832610;1530983014;mircea_popescu;"is signed" or "i check the signatures" ?
1832611;1530983021;esthlos;sigs are checked
1832612;1530983068;mircea_popescu;and then the hashes aren't checked against the file updated prior to updating and the result after updating it ?
1832613;1530983079;esthlos;that's correct
1832614;1530983099;mircea_popescu;well yes, oversight.
1832615;1530983102;*;esthlos feels demonstration of dumbness incoming...
1832616;1530983138;esthlos;ok, I'll get on fixing that. sorry for trouble
1832617;1530983224;mircea_popescu;and change how you think. the whole point of even having any of this is to have all of it.
1832618;1530983232;mircea_popescu;if your hashes are unchecked, why bother with signatures ?
1832619;1530983379;esthlos;ah wait, so sig is "I place my trust in this transformation", but I didn't check initial conditions, did I?
1832620;1530983413;*;asciilifeform involuntarily recalls http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537241 item
1832621;1530983413;a111;Logged on 2016-09-08 15:31 mircea_popescu: ie, young brazillian chick WILL have to have her cooking checked for shit, because apparently wash hands is not universally comprehended in brazil.
1832622;1530983441;mircea_popescu;esthlos exactly. for all you know a) you're applying patches on the wrong fileset, resulting in a broken / uncompilable pile
1832623;1530983468;mircea_popescu;and b) you're applying "fuck you()" on the expectation it hashes as "pupcakes and soda cop"
1832624;1530983473;esthlos;asciilifeform: this is 100% true. I need some adult supervision. kinda why I'm here
1832625;1530983774;mircea_popescu;gotta check that the trusted (as established by sigs) transformation is applied on a) what it expects to be applied and b) the provided transformation ~actually matches~ the described transformation that was trusted.
1832626;1530983987;trinque;is the task for esthlos here to produce a patch util that cares about hashes, or to build all patching functionality into the vtron ?
1832627;1530984109;esthlos;additionally, before I make another mistake, does this warrant redoing the genesis (because original item is broken?), or a new patch?
1832628;1530984159;mircea_popescu;esthlos genesis ~never needs redoing. it's a purely administrative decision, to regrind, dun sweat it.
1832629;1530984164;mircea_popescu;just patch on it.
1832630;1530984171;esthlos;mmk
1832631;1530984173;mircea_popescu;trinque the idea is to get a definitive item, does everything.
1832632;1530984200;trinque;makes sense to me.
1832633;1530984255;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832542 << I'd be much obliged if you did, staying on cuntoo dev until done.
1832634;1530984255;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 11:40 spyked: btw trinque, I'm getting back to trilemabot-works next week, so I can do the regrind after trilemabot part ii if that's too deep in your queue.
1832635;1530984277;mircea_popescu;now, shelling out to diff / patch is one thing (though somewhat iffy for reasons discussed in a long thread, which phf mostly fixed). but shelling out to hasher is no longer possible because keccak implementation isn't shell.
1832636;1530984854;esthlos;so two things I see are: 1. what to do for hasher? somehow integrate phf's item into my vtron? 2. what do to for diff/patch? lisp McIlroy?
1832637;1530984916;mircea_popescu;esthlos there's an eucrypt keccak you can either import (by patching off eucrypt) or copy over (as a different patch).
1832638;1530984925;mircea_popescu;also, can integrate phf's code, same way
1832639;1530985795;asciilifeform;in other noose, 4605938 spyked keyz going in starting nao.
1832640;1530985820;mircea_popescu;inb4 4mn lines of pop :D
1832641;1530985858;asciilifeform;lol
1832642;1530985874;mircea_popescu;hey, gotta account for technological progress since 2014.
1832643;1530985877;mircea_popescu;you know the joke ?
1832644;1530985888;esthlos;judging by the vtree http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search=
1832645;1530985909;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which
1832646;1530985920;esthlos;sorry, eucrypt (bad enter)
1832647;1530985967;mircea_popescu;guy goes to doctor, "doc, my wife is annoying". so doctor recommends warm compresses, to be placed on the annoying parts.
1832648;1530986013;mircea_popescu;months pass, the two meet socially. "how goes ?" "i got divorced" "how come ?" "wife -- annoying" "but there's medical cures for that!"  "oh, i tried warm compresses till i was black and blue from it" "no, not warm. cold."
1832649;1530986027;mircea_popescu;"da fuck ? you told me warm ?!" "yes well... that was then. what, you think medical science made no progress in the interval ?"
1832650;1530986051;mircea_popescu;esthlos what about it ?
1832651;1530986146;esthlos;trying to figure out what patch I can base the press from to get keccak. seems like its eucrypt_keccak_birate_fix, but that pulls in the other components according to the graph
1832652;1530986177;mircea_popescu;esthlos if you patch ~off~ of eucrypt your whole thing becomes a patchset.
1832653;1530986395;esthlos;right. but are you suggesting to pull in all of eucrypt, including mpi, etc.?
1832654;1530986525;mircea_popescu;i'm not suggesting either ; i'm just saying that you have two ways you could proceed. either identify among the code you wish to reuse a tree to nestle among, and then your vtron would be an eucrypt downstream item, or a phf vtron item or whatever you pick ;
1832655;1530986534;mircea_popescu;or else you copy over the code you want to use into your own tree.
1832656;1530986566;mircea_popescu;this has nothing to do with the particularls, not you, nor the project etc ; it's just how it goes, either way 1 or way 2.
1832657;1530986578;esthlos;cool
1832658;1530986626;esthlos;question for diana_coman then, is where to base press to get standalone keccak, as refenced: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/18/eucrypt-chapter-6-keccak-transformations/#selection-83.46-83.153
1832659;1530986723;esthlos;if standalone is difficult due to eucrypt_keccak_bitrate_fix, then I'll plan to copy code
1832660;1530987184;mircea_popescu;esthlos of course, if your whole thing is lisp, the utility of ada keccak may be limited ?
1832661;1530987253;diana_coman;esthlos, you can compile it standalone but indeed because of the bitrate fix you'll need to patch all the way to that at least so getting everything in
1832662;1530987303;diana_coman;alternatively you can press to ch9 and then add the fix on top I guess
1832663;1530987426;diana_coman;esthlos, the fix is literally one line + test of the issue
1832664;1530987468;esthlos;mircea_popescu: sbcl can call executables (shithub warning): https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/src/code/run-program.lisp
1832665;1530987495;esthlos;but if it's desired for entire thing to be lisp, then yeah
1832666;1530987543;diana_coman;it can't hurt to have a lisp implementation of keccak too imo
1832667;1530987586;mircea_popescu;esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"
1832668;1530987601;mircea_popescu;i ain't gonna make them for you, even if you turn out to suck at it.
1832669;1530987715;esthlos;gah. hope I don't suck, then
1832670;1530987786;diana_coman;esthlos, measure 10 times, cut once and esp... know why you chose whatever you chose
1832671;1530987893;mircea_popescu;the above especially. whole thing works just like eulora price formation, gotta have some sort of reasoning to back you up.
1832672;1530987912;mircea_popescu;then ~that reasoning~ becomes who you are, because it's what people evaluate.
1832673;1530987949;mircea_popescu;it's the direct equivalent of a key, actually. if you regard a rsa key as "a succession of 2048 binary questions" to which one gives exactly correct answers ; then ~choices you make~ are ultimately the basis of identity.
1832674;1530987979;mircea_popescu;"should #1477 [bit of privkey] be true or false ?" === "do i x or y in situation z"
1832675;1530988077;esthlos;very interesting, thanks diana_coman and mircea_popescu
1832676;1530988098;esthlos;I'm going to think of how to proceed and blog the reasoning
1832677;1530988610;deedbot;http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/07/07/a-look-at-fraudball-the-terrible-spectator-sport/ << Bingo Blog - A Look At Fraudball, The Terrible Spectator Sport
1832678;1530990856;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/scotland-yard-facial-recognition-trial-produced-no-arrests/ << Qntra - Scotland Yard: Facial Recognition Trial Produced No Arrests
1832679;1530994173;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/brokola-nuff-said/ << Trilema - Brokola. 'Nuff said.
1832680;1530995078;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/newspaper-in-burkina-faso-heralds-african-victory-of-french-national-soccer-team/ << Qntra - Newspaper In Burkina Faso Heralds African Victory Of French National Soccer Team
1832681;1530998761;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: somewhat surprisingly, eater is 1059370 keyz into the spyked parcel, and result is 1059878 new mods ( i.e. avg of >1 per ! )
1832682;1530998841;asciilifeform;( about 3.5 mil keyz left to eat )
1832683;1530998867;asciilifeform;rate of eater is ~150/s
1832684;1530998912;asciilifeform;this means, output can be expected tomorrow night.
1832685;1530999001;asciilifeform;what this also means, as i understand, is that there are some lusers with >1 mod .
1832686;1530999051;asciilifeform;or hm, nm, it's an artifact of the phuctor stats cache mechanism.
1832687;1530999059;asciilifeform;there cannot actually be >1 mod from 1 line of the input csv.
1832688;1530999378;mircea_popescu;does it actually dedupe ?
1832689;1530999383;asciilifeform;it does.
1832690;1530999392;asciilifeform;bernsteinization dunwork if you dun dedupe.
1832691;1530999437;asciilifeform;( keys with dupe mods get processed correctly, they are addressable as distinct keys but mods are references to a mods table, and dupes get marked as dupes. bernsteintron works on deduped mods table. )
1832692;1530999447;mircea_popescu;i must say this is shocking.
1832693;1530999454;mircea_popescu;so ~all~ keys got replaced since 2015 ?!
1832694;1530999465;asciilifeform;dunno re 'all', but so far seems that most -- did
1832695;1530999473;asciilifeform;tomorrow will have exact number.
1832696;1530999479;mircea_popescu;100% of 1/4 of the lot... nuts.
1832697;1530999489;mircea_popescu;consider, he walks a historical table.
1832698;1530999499;mircea_popescu;fifo, so these'd be the old ones ?
1832699;1530999508;asciilifeform;iirc they're alphabetic.
1832700;1530999552;mircea_popescu;i thought he went by account id which is a counter
1832701;1530999576;asciilifeform;hm, nfi then
1832702;1530999618;mircea_popescu;in other such, trilema the most read it's ever been
1832703;1530999645;mircea_popescu;(mostly because -- rape and bdsm article)
1832704;1530999792;asciilifeform;in other lulz, asciilifeform was reading http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832679 and wondered why they wrote 'Rușia' then finally realized that it was a gnat stuck to asciilifeform's display !
1832705;1530999792;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 20:09 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/brokola-nuff-said/ << Trilema - Brokola. 'Nuff said.
1832706;1530999876;mircea_popescu;lmao
1832707;1530999892;mircea_popescu;i didn't realise there's disadvantages to a gnat system
1832708;1530999923;asciilifeform;hey, recall how background 5k radio hum of the universe was found.
1832709;1531000018;asciilifeform;in yet-other lulz, we have our first idjit with ~current~ key that sits down straight on an old popped mod : http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/391BBDCC87CBADA0F891176D9D45D80B7D5D076E4551151F42B104B717F5E449
1832710;1531000054;mircea_popescu;lmao!
1832711;1531000077;asciilifeform;( i'm almost surprised there ain't more )
1832712;1531000130;BingoBoingo;lol
1832713;1531000181;asciilifeform;( these, as alert reader prolly realizes, signal immediately, they do not require bernsteinization to find )
1832714;1531000250;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1832715;1531001396;hanbot;<mircea_popescu> hanbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AAQhF/?raw=true << got it, ty.
1832716;1531003946;BingoBoingo;The latest news out of Venezuela is that the Maid won't reliably show up to work because Maduro is handing out free food, and what's the point of working when there's food handouts
1832717;1531005484;mircea_popescu;doh.
1832718;1531005564;mircea_popescu;and what's the point of not shooting said maid needn't be answered because maid-council established "you couldn't do that", and what maid council establishes fucking goes, or what.
1832719;1531005683;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832417 << so far only one patch is using keccak, the new patches that came out are all sha512 and none of the existing projects attempted a regrind
1832720;1531005683;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 01:20 mircea_popescu: phf define slow adoption!!
1832721;1531005731;phf;now the reason i kept the branches separate is because i was expecting a rapid switch to keccak as soon as one's available, so the need to deal with sha patches would've been rare. that's not the case, and i want to have similar functionality available for both sha and keccak until there's no more active sha patches in the wild.
1832722;1531005748;mircea_popescu;hrmph.
1832723;1531005987;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> and what's the point of not shooting said maid needn't be answered because maid-council established "you couldn't do that", and what maid council establishes fucking goes, or what. << Plan seems to be fuck off and leave confused maid and maid council behind
1832724;1531006016;mircea_popescu;producing ~nation of africa
1832725;1531006031;BingoBoingo;But I did suggest "Why is she still a maid"
1832726;1531006077;phf;i've been using vpatch/vdiff without full blown v, because i can order the patches by hand (and there's now an explicit ordering provided by manifest), and vpatch verifies the hashes for me. it would be handy if i could also press existing sha patches with `vpatch -a sha` or whatever
1832727;1531006136;mircea_popescu;or if we actually took ourselves seriously enough to get rid of the dumb shit.
1832728;1531007625;asciilifeform;i still dun fully grasp why hasher gotta be hardwired into the vtron. what's the point of even having a shell if not for pluggable items like hash.
1832729;1531007696;asciilifeform;as for keccak, util oughta take a bitness arg ( sorta half the win from keccak, is that you can demand e.g. kilobit hash output )
1832730;1531007849;asciilifeform;in other noose, 1807113 keyz swallowed, containing 1646811 new mods.
1832731;1531007902;phf;esthlos: your v_genesis patch is broken, http://btcbase.org/patches/v_genesis/file "contact" etc.
1832732;1531007945;phf;+++ b/Makefile 2018-06-07 21:23:51.000000000 -0400 1081b49742... etc.
1832733;1531007965;asciilifeform;ugh did he manage to dig up a pre-timestampremoval vdiff.sh ?!
1832734;1531008083;phf;asciilifeform: well, that would be one of the reasons why "hasher gotta be hardwired". vtools give you hard guarantees about the format of the patch, the state of the press, that can actually be manipulated outside of unix soup
1832735;1531008093;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform then you end up with hash state machine, and with "oh, this x hash item matches that y hash" lulz and etc.
1832736;1531008136;mircea_popescu;what ~i~ don't understand is why every, ~EVERY~ design decision gotta be re-argued again, soviets style, with every fucking implementation every single time.
1832737;1531008152;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no state machine, just expectation that machine has e.g. 'keccac1024' util on it
1832738;1531008153;mircea_popescu;"and this, ivan ivanovich, is why bricks are this long and this wide. notwithstanding what your fucking wall needs iyo"
1832739;1531008166;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform how do you know what hash patch x is hashed in ?
1832740;1531008260;asciilifeform;would say, e.g., +++ b/fg.ucf keccak512 2e1120e28077b4fc31bc2de704cba9591daad2e4193737cf911a0dd49d4731843cc9fb9c3595f65c9e1bdf6a13d2d41011552de688cff10a7074ace6827cc37f
1832741;1531008266;mircea_popescu;right.
1832742;1531008283;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu even wrote 'standardization is great, but where unnecessary, harmful'
1832743;1531008294;mircea_popescu;what the fuck is the ~use~ of more than one hash ?
1832744;1531008313;mircea_popescu;so that i gotta mandate every vtron implements 500 hashers ?
1832745;1531008328;asciilifeform;aside from old-stuff-we're-doomed-to-regrind-for-new-vtron-anyway, largely in the keccak win of being able to emit arbitrarily long hash
1832746;1531008333;mircea_popescu;the whole discussion went 1. there can only be one ; 2. sure as fuck won't be hitler's ; 3. pick something
1832747;1531008340;mircea_popescu;keccak came out of that. it's all in the logs.
1832748;1531008345;asciilifeform;aha
1832749;1531008365;mircea_popescu;the advantage of keccak for this application is tghat it ~intakes~ arbitrary lengthj
1832750;1531008370;mircea_popescu;not that it outputs arbitrary length.
1832751;1531008373;mircea_popescu;hitlerhashes block.
1832752;1531008382;asciilifeform;all known hashers eat arbitrary length, just multiples of n
1832753;1531008389;mircea_popescu;keccak does not.
1832754;1531008399;asciilifeform;keccak is able to eat ~and shit~ arbitrary bitness.
1832755;1531008415;mircea_popescu;keccak eats n=1 arbitrary length.
1832756;1531008427;asciilifeform;( admitting , however, asciilifeform does not know of any proof that the longer keccaks are actually stronger )
1832757;1531008611;asciilifeform;and yes, i like it largely because not crowned by hitler. ( tho admittedly there is no way to prove the negative of hitlerian authorship for it, the author set of it iirc intersects with that of aes , which ~was~ crowned )
1832758;1531008665;asciilifeform;ability to use variant hashers in v would seem to go with the nonspecificity-of-diddling philosophy tho.
1832759;1531008791;mircea_popescu;in the sense turret-pistol would.
1832760;1531008826;mircea_popescu;if you have many hashes a) you won't have them all properly supported ever ; b) nobody's going to have multi-implementations for most of it.
1832761;1531008837;mircea_popescu;if you have one, everyone can use their own homebrew keccak see if it works.
1832762;1531008889;asciilifeform;i expect that errybody currently tuned in, will use keccak.
1832763;1531008898;mircea_popescu;now, politically i was going to take a soft approach to it, but since phf decided to make a challenge out of it for no reason i can imagine, what can i say, let's make it a big deal.
1832764;1531008941;asciilifeform;i can see mircea_popescu's arg for gluing it in. but why 512b.
1832765;1531008963;mircea_popescu;i couldn't care less what size. it'll have to be something, and whoever makes it makes it.
1832766;1531009146;mircea_popescu;(ftr, turret pistol actually existed -- borne out of that "supporter of creativity" that's ustardian "intellectual property" laws. worked as well as anything the socialists ever sired ever worked.)
1832767;1531009159;asciilifeform;which pistol was this
1832768;1531009271;mircea_popescu;http://www.ilgunrights.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/turret-gun.jpg <
1832769;1531009286;asciilifeform;lol!
1832770;1531009290;asciilifeform;horizontal revolver ?!
1832771;1531009336;asciilifeform;alignment is problematic enuff in ordinary nagant. picture this horror.
1832772;1531009352;mircea_popescu;habitually row-fired
1832773;1531009369;mircea_popescu;(yes, including the round facing operator)
1832774;1531009451;asciilifeform;horizontal ~drums~ work ok, as in rpd ( https://topwar.ru/14415-degtyarev-pehotnyy-pulemetu-dp-85-let.html ) , but these had a bolt & extractor
1832775;1531009552;asciilifeform;http://www.horstheld.com/0-Cochran.htm << mircea_popescu's item. hilarious, who the fuck would fire this.
1832776;1531009604;mircea_popescu;men. that's why the species has males, so they attempt to raise cichlids, rear children, fire turret pistols, go to the moon...
1832777;1531009667;asciilifeform;granted, early cannon was nearly as lethal to the artillerist as to enemy. but that was state of art in 1500. turret pistol seems like a step back..
1832778;1531009710;mircea_popescu;it existed because cold had the "patent" on other kind of revolver.
1832779;1531009714;mircea_popescu;colt*
1832780;1531009720;asciilifeform;lol!!
1832781;1531009722;asciilifeform;such usa !
1832782;1531009760;asciilifeform;this kind of thing is alive & well today, in pharma biznis, which asciilifeform had the misfortune of being involved in.
1832783;1531009789;mircea_popescu;(and if anyone's curious why the cichlids are such a big deal pantsuit item -- brooding habits, every individual of either gender does ~nothing all day besides "helping" the young, by which they also mean adolescents)
1832784;1531009790;asciilifeform;'why is this methyl group here' '...patent'
1832785;1531009806;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform since we're doing weird guns, i guess pucker gatling also worth a mention
1832786;1531009817;mircea_popescu;(exactly as it sounds, 1700s musket-machinegun attempt. didn't work so well)
1832787;1531009858;asciilifeform;gatling actually got a fairly successful second life, in vietnam ( and to present day )
1832788;1531009873;mircea_popescu;yes but that was more 1800s. century does a lot for machining.
1832789;1531009879;asciilifeform;verily
1832790;1531009935;mircea_popescu;www.historic-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/the-puckle-gun.jpg << item
1832791;1531009939;asciilifeform;repeating fire for 'hosedown' is alluring temptation, recall the quite sad and underpowered chinese multishot arbalest
1832792;1531009939;phf;flintlock was a bitch
1832793;1531009973;asciilifeform;( iirc they had it on official issue well into 19th c ! )
1832794;1531010049;asciilifeform;http://kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Chinese-Repeating-Crossbow-705x230.jpg << subj
1832795;1531010069;asciilifeform;iirc did 0 against even lightly armoured target.
1832796;1531010083;asciilifeform;but perhaps it sufficed as 'police arm'
1832797;1531010131;asciilifeform;( euro-style cranked arbalest, somewhat interestingly, had ~same penetration as musket )
1832798;1531010154;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1832799;1531010390;mircea_popescu;does look like the chinos stole a hellenistic item.
1832800;1531010403;lobbes;!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2018/q2/diana_coman_payment_receipt.txt
1832801;1531010407;deedbot;accepted: 1
1832802;1531010451;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832427 << ty for this, btw
1832803;1531010451;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 04:26 mircea_popescu: actually... i suppose might as well get the whole pile archived
1832804;1531010475;mircea_popescu;the internet's the most fertile plain yet known.
1832805;1531014317;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-530962.txt
1832806;1531024040;ave1;asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832709, this seems to me to be a duplicate key. But maybe I misunderstand? (i.e. N an e are the same, user is the same but github key id is different)
1832807;1531024040;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 21:46 asciilifeform: in yet-other lulz, we have our first idjit with ~current~ key that sits down straight on an old popped mod : http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/391BBDCC87CBADA0F891176D9D45D80B7D5D076E4551151F42B104B717F5E449
1832808;1531024040;lobbesbot;ave1: Sent 1 day, 4 hours, and 57 minutes ago: <phf> ^
1832809;1531024116;ave1;phf, link was wrong should have been: http://ave1.org/tarpit/tmsr-pgp-genesis.vpatch.ave1.sig. I updated the link in the post.
1832810;1531025394;phf;ave1: ty, you've been placed http://btcbase.org/patches/tmsr-pgp-genesis
1832811;1531040020;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832560 <-- yeah, one of the fun (if messy) parts in exploring the beast's entrails. can notice clearly the worms eating at it.
1832812;1531040020;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 14:44 mircea_popescu: re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-149.0-153.220 : you should see the "easy to detect" over @ fetlife, fucktards have five dozen DIFFERENT failure modes, all of them ujust as "specifically laid out". bot code is 60% "handle inept error pages" by mass. so fucking evident it's the result of "incremental development", too.
1832813;1531040401;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832697 <-- historical walk of users by id, yes. but keys are grabbed via shithub.usg/luser.keys, which yields luser's set of keys at the time of the curl.
1832814;1531040401;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 21:38 mircea_popescu: consider, he walks a historical table.
1832815;1531040651;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832633 <-- ok. this'll be a very good exercise for the spyked patch-making muscle, I need it.
1832816;1531040651;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 17:24 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832542 << I'd be much obliged if you did, staying on cuntoo dev until done.
1832817;1531040938;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-08#1832806 <-- it certainly looks this way, these are keys that are in both the phathub-2015 and 2018 datasets, and this particular one belongs to the same user. but note that the 2018 one doesn't have a key id (I inserted the user id instead), that one was only available when grabbing the key through the API.
1832818;1531040938;a111;Logged on 2018-07-08 04:27 ave1: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832709, this seems to me to be a duplicate key. But maybe I misunderstand? (i.e. N an e are the same, user is the same but github key id is different)
1832819;1531043796;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832552 <-- updated with non-rsa keys: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/076-shithub-2018-06.html#selection-220.0-220.4
1832820;1531043796;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 13:47 spyked: asciilifeform, phathub file contains RSA e and N only. but that's a good point, should also post the other ones under some raw form.
1832821;1531054130;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/077-lacul-morii.html << The Tar Pit - A photographic tour of Bucharest; in today's issue: Lacul Morii
1832822;1531055923;asciilifeform;in other noose, snarfing complete, 2nd dupe found, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E7F1A77C5BC62EBC7D363251EA4A619BD704ED95C32BC5099917934CAB1EA41
1832823;1531055983;asciilifeform;totals : 4605939 keys eaten, 4605441 mods among'em.
1832824;1531056257;asciilifeform;later today -- output.
1832825;1531056371;asciilifeform;per above, we get the astonishing find that, since 2016 , all but 498 lusers either: a) got booted from shithub  or  b) swapped key
1832826;1531056725;asciilifeform;or hm, nm, closer look shows 395480 old mods; they ended up (correctly) marked for retest by asciilifeform's ancient logic
1832827;1531064183;mircea_popescu;tbh 498 sounds closer to genuine github userbase figures.
1832828;1531064350;asciilifeform;sadly i dun have 'the genuine figs', all i got is this.
1832829;1531064385;asciilifeform;it aint as if they dun know how to generate rando key to go with spamola rando luser acct tho.
1832830;1531064406;mircea_popescu;evidently.\
1832831;1531065276;phf;ave1, asciilifeform or other ada specialists, how did you bootstrap a gnat on aarch64? is there some binary that's floating around (because adacore doesn't seem to have linux-aarch64 build) or is it bootstrapped using a cross compiler on a x86 linux?
1832832;1531065342;phf;i very briefly looked at ave1's script, and i'm guessing that's what it's supposed to do (besides musl related): build a x86 hosted aarch64 crosscompiler, build an aarch64 build using that compiler?
1832833;1531065362;asciilifeform;phf: ave1's recent breakthrough was specifically this -- a rotor-style cross-compile process that takes an existing amd64 gnat, and builds a particular other gnat for whatever arch
1832834;1531065369;asciilifeform;so yes.
1832835;1531065538;phf;ok, thank you. afaiu though ave1's build is potentially missing all kinds of system integration components, or is the retargeting against custom ada stdlib optional?
1832836;1531065545;asciilifeform;not optional
1832837;1531065572;asciilifeform;it's a musltronic build, like rotor. so it builds absolutely errything that is needed for a working static elf-outputting gnat.
1832838;1531065588;asciilifeform;and quite correctly, you cannot link these with anything that it itself did not build.
1832839;1531065669;mircea_popescu;nobinary!
1832840;1531065755;phf;asciilifeform: is it possible to combine musl and libc on a same gentoo system (gentoo insists i use something they call crossdev, i haven't yet looked into it further) (i'm using your aarch64 gentoo root file system)?
1832841;1531065841;asciilifeform;phf: only on a system where the systemwide crapola is traditional (glibc) and your musl item is a homedir-local build, a la rotor.
1832842;1531065849;phf;ah, word.
1832843;1531065857;asciilifeform;phf: as discussed in the recent diana_coman thread, if you want systemwide musl-anythings, gotta have a pure musl box.
1832844;1531065902;phf;i followed that thread with one eye, and now i regret it. gotta revisit
1832845;1531065906;mircea_popescu;"Speaking of below, above" lmao spyked's forging himself a new poetic language, full of verve and unexpectedness!
1832846;1531066007;phf;he's a crypto-alchemist, leaving hints in the logs for future generations
1832847;1531066079;mircea_popescu;just has a very personal relationship with the poor lang, fo sho.
1832848;1531066105;asciilifeform;phf: ave1's item is pretty great, it resulted in tarballs containing working bins of amd64 and arm64 gnat; the latter worx great on my desk rockchip. the only item that dunwork of yet is the repeat of said process ~on~ arm64 (to crossbuild amd64 gnat there)
1832849;1531066108;*;mircea_popescu similarly guilty.
1832850;1531066132;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform wait, i thought he finessed that too ?
1832851;1531066155;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly, but i haven't tested his pill yet ( iirc not yet published on his www )
1832852;1531066175;mircea_popescu;aok
1832853;1531066200;asciilifeform;a Troo Eternal gnat oughta be able to build itself ad-infinitum, jumping archs as necessary
1832854;1531066220;asciilifeform;y'know, sorta like c compiler in the olden dayz.
1832855;1531066262;mircea_popescu;indeed.
1832856;1531066303;asciilifeform;phf: are you in the midst of planting the thing on c101pa box?
1832857;1531066404;phf;asciilifeform: yes
1832858;1531066408;asciilifeform;neato
1832859;1531066417;mircea_popescu;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y04/077-lacul-morii.html#selection-141.182-141.386 << dood has a fucking point. you should see the morons here, i suspect they sleep in the damned things. their idea of "dressing up" is ~a different blouse~ atop the grafted-on jeans. they have shops catering to this specifically, "dress-up blouses shop". in most social situations i actually own 99.9x% of all human females dressed like human females
1832860;1531066417;mircea_popescu;rather than impersonating sourdough miners.
1832861;1531066422;asciilifeform;phf: theoretically it oughta run there without modification
1832862;1531066576;phf;i suspect also that ave1's build is missing functionality that vtools requires, i want to see what that slice looks like, possibly fix it
1832863;1531066596;mircea_popescu;certainly the hasher :D
1832864;1531066618;asciilifeform;phf: at this point, if something dun build under musltronic gnat, the problem is with item, not with the gnat
1832865;1531066703;phf;asciilifeform: i didn't expect anything less generous
1832866;1531068989;BingoBoingo;This is largely a country a jeans grafters too
1832867;1531069008;BingoBoingo;At least in winter. In the summer shorts do come out
1832868;1531080894;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/routes-to-keccak-in-esthlos-v/ << esthlos - Routes to Keccak in esthlos-v
1832869;1531081070;esthlos;wrt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832726 and asciilifeform 's "sad mode", the idea of using the manifest was the confusing way the fuck back in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-07#1787163 , where I thought "oh, mp wants me to build a vtron using manifest to resolve tree, guess I need a manifest spec!"
1832870;1531081070;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 23:27 phf: i've been using vpatch/vdiff without full blown v, because i can order the patches by hand (and there's now an explicit ordering provided by manifest), and vpatch verifies the hashes for me. it would be handy if i could also press existing sha patches with `vpatch -a sha` or whatever
1832871;1531081070;a111;Logged on 2018-03-07 19:18 mircea_popescu: esthlos i don't get it, you're going to take a stab "at it" ie making a textfile, the sort that only carries any sort of weight or importance if a) you're somebody and b) you're doing something important, in between whenever your fiat job permits you a few hours here and there ?
1832872;1531081424;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832731 << looks like yeah, I have ancient vdiff, taken from the classic http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
1832873;1531081424;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 23:58 phf: esthlos: your v_genesis patch is broken, http://btcbase.org/patches/v_genesis/file "contact" etc.
1832874;1531081935;esthlos;phf I fixed those files if you'd like them, at http://files.esthlos.com/crypto/esthlos-v/v_genesis.vpatch and http://files.esthlos.com/crypto/esthlos-v/v_genesis.vpatch.esthlos.sig
1832875;1531081959;esthlos;bbl
1832876;1531090220;mod6;all caught up on logs.
1832877;1531090233;mod6;how's everyone doing?
1832878;1531090237;BingoBoingo;Not bad
1832879;1531090257;mod6;nice :]
1832880;1531090272;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/another-case-of-human-labor-masquerading-as-ai-exposed/ << Qntra - Another Case Of Human Labor Masquerading As AI Exposed
1832881;1531092725;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-1/ << esthlos - Log Reading, Week 1
1832882;1531098880;asciilifeform;esthlos: http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2018-07 << phuctor, not phunctor, lol
1832883;1531099108;mircea_popescu;check out the aggressive mp.
1832884;1531099652;asciilifeform;in other lullities :
1832885;1531099656;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/391BBDCC87CBADA0F891176D9D45D80B7D5D076E4551151F42B104B717F5E449
1832886;1531099660;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E7F1A77C5BC62EBC7D363251EA4A619BD704ED95C32BC5099917934CAB1EA41
1832887;1531099663;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/07D36937F9F275F5AD92B6D397BBE17BA97FE32DA1BAB6D74F79F4630B8F686B
1832888;1531099666;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C53BB07585337A00976B8666F121358E0F05673DE88096B8B9D42EA475843C12
1832889;1531099669;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D6E4958477F09D96D009E1C5D5AADFC0E982078F819FA8F24133B2E929053640
1832890;1531099673;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0B40D542177EE42B221CD83C7D55EB24AC593ABD186879DC6186E2414809C5C8
1832891;1531099676;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/24D4646DCCA7BF31D2F07E76FCD110387B4BFB2E716882DF03E52DEAE7A5C46F
1832892;1531099680;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/07D36937F9F275F5AD92B6D397BBE17BA97FE32DA1BAB6D74F79F4630B8F686B
1832893;1531099683;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C53BB07585337A00976B8666F121358E0F05673DE88096B8B9D42EA475843C12
1832894;1531099687;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D6E4958477F09D96D009E1C5D5AADFC0E982078F819FA8F24133B2E929053640
1832895;1531099689;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0B40D542177EE42B221CD83C7D55EB24AC593ABD186879DC6186E2414809C5C8
1832896;1531099692;asciilifeform;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/24D4646DCCA7BF31D2F07E76FCD110387B4BFB2E716882DF03E52DEAE7A5C46F
1832897;1531099696;asciilifeform;and that's the whole harvest.
1832898;1531100806;mircea_popescu;dozen exactly ?
1832899;1531101192;mircea_popescu;esthlos can't select portions of your blog! but anyway, "Make a new patch with esthlos-v_genesis and some node of the EuCrypt tree as parents." wasn't contemplated, because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592769
1832900;1531101192;a111;Logged on 2016-12-29 21:39 mircea_popescu: just search for me screaming "there's only one genesis" and frothing at the mouth.
1832901;1531101253;mircea_popescu;so it was, "re-grind your genesis ~as a patch upon eucrypt~."
1832902;1531101349;mircea_popescu;and yes, the effort to understand is not getting cut out.
1832903;1531101623;mircea_popescu;http://blog.esthlos.com/routes-to-keccak-in-esthlos-v/#footnote_5_24 << signing a patch signifies, at the common basis, a) that the signer has read the patch and that b) in his best effort determination b1) the  transformation that the specified patch brings upon b2) the exact codebase specified will not b3) ~introduce~ properties that are b4) novel, unobvious and nefarious (all three).
1832904;1531101697;mircea_popescu;this is the "default genesis" so to speak of any signature's seals. if the owner patches upon it, to make it eg "this is a lulz signature, will sign all retarded implementations with it", that'd be his problem, and yours only by the extension of, "why are you trusting signatures without knowing the owner enough to have seen the actual meaning-patch-tree he uses".
1832905;1531101729;mircea_popescu;that satisfies ?
1832906;1531101854;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832898 << 2 oldies ( from prev shot and still alive, evidently )
1832907;1531101854;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 01:46 mircea_popescu: dozen exactly ?
1832908;1531101883;mircea_popescu;incredible enough, >0 still breakable.
1832909;1531101891;mircea_popescu;i guess the cosmic ray is still powered on.
1832910;1531101898;asciilifeform;aha!
1832911;1531101920;asciilifeform;can click on factor to see who's debianized etc
1832912;1531102031;asciilifeform;debian, 'gift keeps on giving', lol
1832913;1531102068;mircea_popescu;of course, this may just be a problem of optics. apple tree keeps on giving for 30+ years, debian so far smoking nervously in the 1st decade corner.
1832914;1531102099;*;asciilifeform still finds it surreal that anybody wanted anyffing whatsoever to do with debian after the 'bug'
1832915;1531102124;mircea_popescu;as xerox parc and say symbolics well proved (and crapple, shittysoft, etc all eagerly copied), no computer science matters for very long.
1832916;1531102136;asciilifeform;lol science
1832917;1531102146;mircea_popescu;if my slavegirl coco asked me in the 50s if i recommend she go into fashion or into computing, she'd still have been coco chanel.
1832918;1531102161;mircea_popescu;lasting-er impact, as a fashionista, than as one of these, whatever they are, "intellectuals" or so.
1832919;1531102205;mircea_popescu;and ~just as~ in the computer case, fashion also has some kind of vague relation with objective realities. somewhat. tit holes usually go in front, registers usually go on a bus, sorta level of reality constraint.
1832920;1531102208;asciilifeform;go into pest control.. at least those roaches actually die sometimes when you spray'em
1832921;1531102209;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> lasting-er impact, as a fashionista, than as one of these, whatever they are, "intellectuals" or so. << Whoever came up with those graft jeans has a legacy
1832922;1531102301;asciilifeform;to carry on with analogy, it is not yet even clear to asciilifeform whether there even is a kitchen beneath the writhing mass.
1832923;1531102306;mircea_popescu;afaik it was the discotards that introduced them into zek wardrobe. definitely 70s item
1832924;1531102339;mircea_popescu;possibly to be pinned on that y s laurent faggot.
1832925;1531102410;mircea_popescu;https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Well_dressed_couple%2C_Michigan_Avenue%2C_Chicago%2C_circa_July_1975.jpg/596px-Well_dressed_couple%2C_Michigan_Avenue%2C_Chicago%2C_circa_July_1975.jpg << roflmao @ wikipedia. seriously, "Couple" ? not pimp'n'ho ? USURE ?
1832926;1531102443;asciilifeform;ftr asciilifeform dun know diff b/w laurent, chanell, coco, all same to my orc eye.
1832927;1531102481;asciilifeform;and largely associated with spam in my head, being the only place i ever encountered said strings.
1832928;1531102515;*;asciilifeform brb
1832929;1531102891;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform coco chanel was an interesting enough woman.
1832930;1531102968;mircea_popescu;basically, stepped beyond the corset ; something in her line much in the vein of "let's make sewing machine that ~doesn't try to immitate seamstres hand~" or "let's try and make flying machine that ~doesn't try to immitate bird~". creativity is creativity, resistence of medium is resistence of medium, can find a lot to like about fashion designer.
1832931;1531129449;ave1;!#s systemd core
1832932;1531129449;a111;1 result for "systemd core", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=systemd%20core
1832933;1531129458;ave1;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-09-03#819330, just got hit by this one
1832934;1531129458;a111;Logged on 2014-09-03 11:56 mircea_popescu: By default, systemd saves core dumps to the journal, instead of the file system. Core dumps must be explicitly queried using coredumpctl4. Besides going against all reason, it also creates complications in multi-user environments (good luck running gdb on your program's core dump if it's dumped to the journal and you don't have root access)
1832935;1531129492;ave1;On system where I do not have root, and on this system all core dumps are simply thrown away
1832936;1531129628;*;ave1 grabs his copy of "The LINUX-HATERS handbook"
1832937;1531143116;phf;ave1: i believe we're beyond linux haters now, this is the uncharted territory of everyone being an idiot
1832938;1531144883;BingoBoingo;<phf> ave1: i believe we're beyond linux haters now, this is the uncharted territory of everyone being an idiot << I am pretty sure this line was crossed irrevcably sometime between 2011 and 2015. Now we are just hitting new frontiers of idiocy
1832939;1531145069;ave1;yes, It's the process of going sarting with  "why am I not getting any core dumps" to "o hey the kernel will call a program to handle core dumps" to "O fuck, systemd is called". And then systemd with all of it's policies and pure stupidity.
1832940;1531145109;ave1;And this process wastes time
1832941;1531145282;ave1;Well, all in a days work, I guess.
1832942;1531145376;ave1;of going sarting with --> starting with
1832943;1531145543;ave1;I also have to sometimes help people with macs, by now this always ends with me giving them advice to thrash the thing.
1832944;1531145938;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832933 << why are you using poettering-rotted linux, ave1 ?
1832945;1531145938;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 09:44 ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-09-03#819330, just got hit by this one
1832946;1531146067;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832930 << i see corsets etc in approx same light that mircea_popescu prolly sees toyotas with flames painted on them. but possibly that's just asciilifeform .
1832947;1531146067;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 02:22 mircea_popescu: basically, stepped beyond the corset ; something in her line much in the vein of "let's make sewing machine that ~doesn't try to immitate seamstres hand~" or "let's try and make flying machine that ~doesn't try to immitate bird~". creativity is creativity, resistence of medium is resistence of medium, can find a lot to like about fashion designer.
1832948;1531146119;ave1;asciilifeform, work
1832949;1531147078;mod6;mornin'
1832950;1531147091;BingoBoingo;Mornin
1832951;1531147099;mod6;how goes?
1832952;1531147151;BingoBoingo;Cloudy, but at least it isn't raining
1832953;1531147240;mod6;Nice.
1832954;1531147366;phf;BingoBoingo: is it still muggy down there?
1832955;1531147419;BingoBoingo;phf: Muggy in a "cold" way, but less consistently
1832956;1531147433;BingoBoingo;Yesterday afternoon was downright pleasant
1832957;1531147467;*;phf nods
1832958;1531147468;BingoBoingo;In contrast Saturday simply rotated between different intensities of rain
1832959;1531147612;phf;i'm remembering when i was in costa rica there was a couple of days when it was raining non stop, and it was "muggy" and everything was constantly wet. visions of tropical diseases from the age of exploration books
1832960;1531147898;BingoBoingo;I don't know if Costa Rica gets cold in the way Uruguay does
1832961;1531152135;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832935 << bwahahaha jaysus.
1832962;1531152135;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 09:44 ave1: On system where I do not have root, and on this system all core dumps are simply thrown away
1832963;1531152220;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832943 << same here, and generally throughout the logs. even phf mostly yielded ye olde box.
1832964;1531152220;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 14:12 ave1: I also have to sometimes help people with macs, by now this always ends with me giving them advice to thrash the thing.
1832965;1531152335;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832946 << a) they were the standard undergarment for dressed up female longer&wider than ~any other item ; b) they are actually a very faberge-like engineering item. i propose your disinterest is merely driven by your never having seen an item, either at rest or in use. but no, not toyota, rather http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1832121
1832966;1531152335;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 14:21 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832930 << i see corsets etc in approx same light that mircea_popescu prolly sees toyotas with flames painted on them. but possibly that's just asciilifeform .
1832967;1531152335;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 22:18 asciilifeform: tell usa victim about su konsoomer ~mechanical~ clock with temperature compensation, ruby bearings, etc., he will assume you've taken lsd.
1832968;1531152350;mircea_popescu;eg, whalebone was used because only material known strong, durable and flexible enough.
1832969;1531152404;mircea_popescu;and when i say "stepped beyond the corset" i mean, that she proposed the first recipe for obtaining lady (ie, lordship female) that is both a) dressed and b) not in a corset.
1832970;1531152419;mircea_popescu;her genesis took.
1832971;1531152539;asciilifeform;pretty sure i saw it in use -- iirc hanbot showed one at c3
1832972;1531152635;asciilifeform;and i can definitely picture how it's a 'high tech' item, sure.
1832973;1531152742;phf;in america corsets are predominantly worn by overweight "doms", and they are bought from goth costume stores, a very peculiar item, that ensures that any mention of "corset" in the conversation indicates a loser
1832974;1531152756;phf;/"corsets"/
1832975;1531152808;mircea_popescu;yes well. not what's here contemplated.
1832976;1531152815;mircea_popescu;woman lived in the 1920s after all.
1832977;1531152826;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the display is not the use. the use is the lacing it.
1832978;1531152848;mircea_popescu;comes as close to giving the woman a good beating as humanly possible without welts and leather straps. which ~makes me suspect~ it was very much not coincidental
1832979;1531152862;asciilifeform;i.e. a sort of hair shirt ?
1832980;1531152871;diana_coman;hm, I still remember that once-alive liver with corset-imprint in it
1832981;1531152921;diana_coman;asciilifeform, they used to faint all the time sometimes for real for lack of air
1832982;1531152936;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this is one of the few details i actually knew, re corset
1832983;1531152940;mircea_popescu;and makes the krummem Holze quite apparent : a) they make substitute whipping implement that then b) they make the women use among themselves.
1832984;1531152966;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform she holds on to a post. you know, just as when punished ; you pull. she ends up winded and you end up sweating.
1832985;1531152969;mircea_popescu;SPREADING -- WORKS.
1832986;1531153070;asciilifeform;punished; you pull << oblig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKd2YldRvB8
1832987;1531153074;mircea_popescu;lol
1832988;1531153230;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832963 << on (unmodified) crapple, since 5 or so yrs ago, even gdb dunwork
1832989;1531153230;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 16:03 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832943 << same here, and generally throughout the logs. even phf mostly yielded ye olde box.
1832990;1531153263;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597418 << see also
1832991;1531153263;a111;Logged on 2017-01-06 13:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phun phakt, i replicated phuctor on a mac lappy (it happened to be the one in the room with sufficient free disk) and it works -- except that apparently gdb no longer works on latest crapple os
1832992;1531153270;asciilifeform;i.e. moar fascist than microshit
1832993;1531153285;asciilifeform;'can't let luser insert debug hooks'
1832994;1531153638;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832959 << ah, it's paradise here, very definite mid april.
1832995;1531153638;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 14:46 phf: i'm remembering when i was in costa rica there was a couple of days when it was raining non stop, and it was "muggy" and everything was constantly wet. visions of tropical diseases from the age of exploration books
1832996;1531155273;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/johnson-resigns-as-uk-foreign-secretary-over-impossibility-of-mays-soft-brexit-effort/ << Qntra - Johnson Resigns As UK Foreign Secretary Over Impossibility Of May's "Soft" Brexit Effort
1832997;1531156021;asciilifeform;in other noose, marvell buys cavium . ( in re http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-26#1213025 running thread )
1832998;1531156021;a111;Logged on 2015-07-26 05:35 asciilifeform: the world of 1985, where there were a thousand ~state-of-the-art~ chip fabs, under two+ separate civilizational systems, and running perhaps a dozen ~entirely independently developed~ toolchains - isn't coming back
1832999;1531159543;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/security-personnel-continue-leaking-location-and-activity-information-through-fitness-apps/ << Qntra - "Security" Personnel Continue Leaking Location And Activity Information Through Fitness Apps
1833000;1531168898;mod6;!Qauctionlist 288
1833001;1531168899;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 288: 1025 USD Opening: 1.5bn coppers Highest Bid: No bids Ending: 2018-07-12 20:35:38 UTC (71 hours 53 mins)
1833002;1531168903;mod6;!Qauctionlist 289
1833003;1531168904;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 289: 1025 USD Opening: 1.5bn coppers Highest Bid: No bids Ending: 2018-07-12 20:35:56 UTC (71 hours 54 mins)
1833004;1531169096;mod6;I started up two auctions, selling 0.15 BTC chunks for a minimum of $1025 USD each.  Winning bidder will send a WU payment or Wire Transfer to a specified WU location or Bank Account after the auction is closed.  The winner will wait until receipt of the WU or Wire Transfer is complete before recieving coins won in auction.
1833005;1531169119;diana_coman;mod6, I find that confusing there: the auctions effectively state you are selling 1025$, not btc
1833006;1531169131;mod6;well...
1833007;1531169146;diana_coman;basically people can bid more btc , not more $ so I don't see how is this meant to work
1833008;1531169148;mod6;maybe help me out. how would you enter it in to make it more clear?
1833009;1531169203;mod6;nevermind, this clearly is not going to work.
1833010;1531169213;diana_coman;well, you are selling btc, right? so your "item" is 1.5bn coppers and the opening bid is 1025$; granted I'm not sure how would that work with lobbes's auction bot since the price there is in Ecu aka satoshis
1833011;1531169223;mod6;we need an auction bot that can do other things.
1833012;1531169263;diana_coman;it does seem to me that you need the functionality of lobbes's bot but with different parameters basically so perhaps customised, pizarro bot
1833013;1531169273;mod6;Everyone, I am selling BITCOIN in two chunks, each of 0.15 BTC in size.  These are selling for $1025 USD.
1833014;1531169284;mod6;each.
1833015;1531169350;mod6;I need the buyer to make a WU payment or Wire Transfer to a destination that will be sent to the buyer.  Upon completion of the WU or Wire Transfer, the bitcoins will be sent to whatever address you specify.
1833016;1531169379;lobbes;mod6: I'll work to see if I can spin up a custom fiat-for-btc version of the auctionbot for you to use next month.
1833017;1531169417;mod6;That would be wildly helpful.  Something such as that, could basically replace the entire OTC.
1833018;1531169453;lobbes;word. I'll keep you updated
1833019;1531169460;mod6;cheers lobbes
1833020;1531170523;mod6;Furthermore, it's such a worthy project that The Bitcoin Foundation should entertain grant proposals for the hosting of the bot & it's corresponding webpage.
1833021;1531170535;mod6;*its
1833022;1531171475;lobbes;mod6 I would gladly work to earn that grant. As it is, I already need to get the 'legacy' auctionbot away from heathen dependencies (in this case, the 'supybot' api), so in building this custom auctionbot for pizarro I may just take the opportunity to design something sitting atop ircbot/logbot and eventually release a proper genesis
1833023;1531174762;mircea_popescu;mod6 interesting!
1833024;1531174946;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833011 << what, have an auction bot denominated in dollars ? i expect washington will take pula before we take fiat, neh ?
1833025;1531174946;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 20:47 mod6: we need an auction bot that can do other things.
1833026;1531174992;asciilifeform;as i understand, idea is auction of dollars denominated in btc (i.e. special-purpose honest exchange)
1833027;1531175082;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833016 << this is not the correct solution.
1833028;1531175082;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 20:49 lobbes: mod6: I'll work to see if I can spin up a custom fiat-for-btc version of the auctionbot for you to use next month.
1833029;1531175139;mircea_popescu;the correct solution is to distinguish selling and buying auctions. change the "A#285" lede into either "B#285" or "S#285" and then if it's a S have it work as it works now, but if it's a B have it work ~reverse~, so smaller bids overbid larger bids.
1833030;1531175175;mircea_popescu;and thusly keep transactions in the republic denominated in the currency of the republic.
1833031;1531175217;asciilifeform;logical. lobbes , can haz ?
1833032;1531175444;lobbes;mircea_popescu: this makes sense, and lines up with what dpb was saying in #p >> http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-7-9#396438
1833033;1531175706;lobbes;asciilifeform: can haz. I'ma move this up to item #1 in hopper
1833034;1531177924;Mocky;so then the auction would go like a buy order for $1025 USD, with an opening bid of 0.15 BTC. Then a bid of 0.14 BTC overbids. This seems like all around a pretty convenient thing.
1833035;1531178404;mircea_popescu;yes.
1833036;1531178811;lobbes;also opens up the possibility of, say, bidding on job contracts, etc
1833037;1531178867;mircea_popescu;anything where something definite is sought, yep
1833038;1531178951;Mocky;trucker tits, opening bid 0.02
1833039;1531179186;mircea_popescu;lo
1833040;1531183782;asciilifeform;meanwhile, via #p, in re fritzisms : http://archive.is/YiLsi << '...separate Ethernet network connection and run a proprietary embedded server management technology that provides out-of-band management features... curl -H "Connection: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"' << hardcoded nsa pw.
1833041;1531183879;mircea_popescu;hm.
1833042;1531183888;mircea_popescu;is this the kvm thing ?
1833043;1531183911;asciilifeform;one of those onboard mobo kvm-cum-sim-disk-cum-powertoggle-etc
1833044;1531183919;asciilifeform;'lights-out management'
1833045;1531183951;mircea_popescu;aha
1833046;1531183995;asciilifeform;~100% of the ones where anybody bothered to dig, have nsa door.
1833047;1531184014;asciilifeform;( and the linked item is typical, usually it's a laughable hardcoded pw, cisco-style )
1833048;1531184050;asciilifeform;i can only with great difficulty picture it being the ~only~ door, has the flavour of a decoy, 'hey we found & fixed, what do you want'
1833049;1531184324;mircea_popescu;possibru
1833050;1531184366;asciilifeform;old-fashioned pluggable hose kvm is typically equally laughable, but at least there you don't keep it around 24/7
1833051;1531185360;esthlos;mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Y7o7Z/?raw=true
1833052;1531185446;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832882 << yep, thanks
1833053;1531185446;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 01:14 asciilifeform: esthlos: http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2018-07 << phuctor, not phunctor, lol
1833054;1531186034;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832899 << will fix selector
1833055;1531186034;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 01:53 mircea_popescu: esthlos can't select portions of your blog! but anyway, "Make a new patch with esthlos-v_genesis and some node of the EuCrypt tree as parents." wasn't contemplated, because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-29#1592769
1833056;1531186105;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1832905 << that is great, thanks
1833057;1531186105;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 02:02 mircea_popescu: that satisfies ?
1833058;1531187920;mod6;esthlos: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fFcjT/?raw=true
1833059;1531188977;esthlos;mod6: cool, thanks
1833060;1531189019;mod6;np, much appreciated, Sir!
1833061;1531189412;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833029 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833030 << works!
1833062;1531189412;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 22:25 mircea_popescu: the correct solution is to distinguish selling and buying auctions. change the "A#285" lede into either "B#285" or "S#285" and then if it's a S have it work as it works now, but if it's a B have it work ~reverse~, so smaller bids overbid larger bids.
1833063;1531189412;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 22:26 mircea_popescu: and thusly keep transactions in the republic denominated in the currency of the republic.
1833064;1531189451;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833031 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833033 << nice!
1833065;1531189451;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 22:26 asciilifeform: logical. lobbes , can haz ?
1833066;1531189451;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 22:35 lobbes: asciilifeform: can haz. I'ma move this up to item #1 in hopper
1833067;1531189490;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833034 << makes sense to me.
1833068;1531189490;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 23:12 Mocky: so then the auction would go like a buy order for $1025 USD, with an opening bid of 0.15 BTC. Then a bid of 0.14 BTC overbids. This seems like all around a pretty convenient thing.
1833069;1531190009;mircea_popescu;!!up asciilifeform
1833070;1531190009;deedbot;asciilifeform voiced for 30 minutes.
1833071;1531190211;mod6;wb
1833072;1531190506;BingoBoingo;Looks like we have a bit of weather on the Freenode
1833073;1531190988;mod6;stormy, with a chance of packeting
1833074;1531191271;asciilifeform;lol fleanode flea bitin'
1833075;1531191315;asciilifeform;perhaps one day they'll learn to change the battery in the nsa tap without resetting folx..
1833076;1531191337;mod6;:D
1833077;1531192761;ben_vulpes;the asinine hoops.
1833078;1531226170;diana_coman;!!key greekboi_
1833079;1531226170;deedbot;Not registered.
1833080;1531226781;diana_coman;!!key greekboi
1833081;1531226782;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/DB00D64143395DD3E4971270EA919A23CBE329CC.asc
1833082;1531229077;diana_coman;phf, I'm having trouble with latest vtools it seems (gcc and gnat version at the end of paste): http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WJios/?raw=true
1833083;1531229248;diana_coman;moreover, v.pl doesn't see/accept all patches: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/45WHe/?raw=true
1833084;1531230522;spyked;diana_coman, I think v.pl will press either side of the http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools tree (keccak or sha), but not both. also, re. error, vtools_fixes_static_tohex should fix it. I've also encountered the linking error in e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-21#1816314 and earlier.
1833085;1531230522;a111;Logged on 2018-05-21 11:48 spyked: it might also in a way be interesting to report how I stumbled upon this: I tried to recompile gnupg-1.4.10 on my broken debian system and got the same "multiple definition" linking errors as in vtools' case (though I *did* use gcc<5). so I dug and found the usual kochs "fixing" things to compile gnupg on newer gccs.
1833086;1531230545;diana_coman;spyked, but it doesn't see even 1 side fully
1833087;1531230565;diana_coman;or what, I need to delete the patches from the other side? hmmm, let me try that
1833088;1531230750;spyked;that oughta work. I can't find the discussion where phf recommended this approach of keeping just one side of the tree in the patchset.
1833089;1531230780;diana_coman;right you are, it does work! thank you spyked, you saved me a ton of time really
1833090;1531230814;diana_coman;I even remember the issue being discussed now that you mention it
1833091;1531230849;diana_coman;I guess I'll leave a comment on his blog for easier future ref
1833092;1531231015;phf;yes
1833093;1531231116;diana_coman;done; ref discussion seems to be http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-20#1803535
1833094;1531231116;a111;Logged on 2018-04-20 04:03 trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LlO7Z/?raw=true << doesn't seem like it's flowing the whole way down one branch, unless I've got tired eyes over here
1833095;1531231291;mod6;mornin'
1833096;1531231805;diana_coman;hi mod6
1833097;1531231858;mod6;how goes today diana_coman?
1833098;1531231923;diana_coman;not bad, at least some things are working! heh
1833099;1531231943;diana_coman;how's it for you mod6 ?
1833100;1531231962;mod6;oh nb.  deleted one side of the tree, now it's ok eh?
1833101;1531231981;diana_coman;aha, I just entirely forgot that discussion until spyked mentioned it
1833102;1531231993;mod6;glad you got it goin
1833103;1531232010;mod6;i just realized that i want pancakes
1833104;1531232017;mod6;i never eat pancakes
1833105;1531232249;phf;like i said couple of days ago i'm going to forward merge that whole right side, right now the only advise is to delete the right hand side because none of the extant V's can resolve that graph, obviously a suboptimal suggestion. i'm working on a better grapher, but until then..
1833106;1531232260;phf;*advice
1833107;1531232332;asciilifeform;phf: didja try it with my ancient v99 ? how does it die ?
1833108;1531232514;phf;let me retest it, but as far as i recall it was producing a patch order that doesn't press
1833109;1531232521;asciilifeform;interesting
1833110;1531232533;asciilifeform;cyclical graph ?
1833111;1531232603;phf;asciilifeform: nope, another form that as of now doesn't have a name
1833112;1531232658;asciilifeform;canhaz rough topological sketch ?
1833113;1531232677;phf;asciilifeform: i need to upload it into my brain first, let me get back to you on that one
1833114;1531232686;asciilifeform;aite
1833115;1531232839;asciilifeform;the http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools picture suggests that it's the classic mistake of spuriously bifurcated tree, the kind of thing that had trinque & mircea_popescu raging in the old days and prompted manifest.txt etc
1833116;1531232901;asciilifeform;it should still press tho ( into a broken proggy, but this is the fault of whoever forgot to unify the tree )
1833117;1531233063;phf;asciilifeform: well, i'm not sure what "spuriously bifurcated tree" means in this case, the goal was stated in the one of the posts, that i'm explicitly maintain two separate branches, that hinge on two separate manifest paths. this is the kind of stuff v is designed for neh? press to vdiff_sha_static to get one thing, press to vtools_vpatch_newline to get the other
1833118;1531233081;asciilifeform;oh hm
1833119;1531233083;phf;there is a manifest in this version of vtools
1833120;1531233100;asciilifeform;so if the 2 are genuinely separate items, why would it break on press
1833121;1531233186;*;asciilifeform bbl,tea
1833122;1531233232;phf;ah see the graph is misleading, because btcbase base grapher culls it. we've ran into similar issue back in the heavy experimental trb days, so one of the very first things that the btcbase distinguished itself on is producing a graph of possible presses, rather than pure antecedent/descendent. this was discussed and documented in the logs, in before "why you do that!1"
1833123;1531233572;phf;in order to produce a graph there's a walk to root phase, the walk keeps track of press state at each node and dismisses connections edges that result in an invalid state. now WHY this is needed is because each individual vpatch doesn't keep track of the entire state, but only about its particular subset of state that changed.
1833124;1531233696;phf;if you want to reduce the problem to a "don't do this" policy, then it stems from repeated hunks across multiple vpatches, i.e. if you have two or more vpatches that have identical state transitions. something like that is bound to happen when you're attempting to port a feature between branches, as is the case with vtools. (i.e. you patched foo.c in one file "remove broken behavior", you now want to also introduce same fix to the other branch)
1833125;1531233793;phf;so policy wise, like you say "no cyclical graphs" you can say "no identical changes in more than one v patch"
1833126;1531233870;phf;manifest doesn't solve this problem, because manifest doesn't get any kind of priority treatment. if you hinged your press purely on a manifest descendent/antecedent chain then everything else will just work™
1833127;1531234243;asciilifeform;phf: right, i grasped this, hence why i wrote a demo impl of trinqueian algo ( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html ) which actually does solve it
1833128;1531234264;phf;right
1833129;1531234283;asciilifeform;but so far nobody seems to see it as dire enuff problem to actually resort to this
1833130;1531234293;phf;yeah, obviously total state eliminates all the "multiple state transitions in a single vpatch" related problems
1833131;1531234320;asciilifeform;i was the loudest whine against the trinqueian algo, but then grasped the wisdom of it meself and actually wrote a working proggy for it
1833132;1531234362;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1833133;1531234463;phf;well, i kind of dig the emergent v graph behaviors, so i don't mind it either way, though btcbase doesn't press cleanly either (^ "all extant V's"). nothing keeping one from tacking on additional state to a crystalized vpatch either, and then you're stuck with another "though shall not, because reasons"
1833134;1531234649;phf;(btcbase doesn't choke on circular graphs, though in a general case it bails. if the circle is in the descendants order is determined by walk's order of entry, a circle back to genesis though can still be broken by explicitly designated something as "genesis", etc.)
1833135;1531234709;phf;http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=vtools&type=transition vs. http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=vtools&type=ad
1833136;1531234925;phf;also http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=stable&type=transition vs http://btcbase.org/graph.svg?patchset=stable&type=ad
1833137;1531236079;mircea_popescu;in other lulz from the slutfields, "thepantiechrist"
1833138;1531236633;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833125 << something the manifest should actually fix ; if it's included why doesn't it fix it ?
1833139;1531236633;a111;Logged on 2018-07-10 14:43 phf: so policy wise, like you say "no cyclical graphs" you can say "no identical changes in more than one v patch"
1833140;1531236664;mircea_popescu;moreover, how can "more than one" vpatch be ~identical~ ? items of the same name and contents are the only items that have the same hash, which is the only basis for identity.
1833141;1531236681;mircea_popescu;how are you distinguishing those more than one patches of the same content by the same name ?
1833142;1531237118;phf;mircea_popescu: i didn't say more than one vpatch are identical, i said that they shouldn't contain identical changes. a single vpatch can contain changes for several files. if two vpatches have a same subset of changes to individual files you have a problem.
1833143;1531237137;mircea_popescu;why ?
1833144;1531237167;mircea_popescu;i don't understand this, you mean patch A having changes a, b, d, e (ie, 4 different patch sections) and B having c, d, e, f ?
1833145;1531237181;phf;yes
1833146;1531237193;mircea_popescu;why would this be a problem ?
1833147;1531237262;mircea_popescu;let me ask you this : is your visualizer essentially a by-file processor ? because this'd be wrong, the concept of "file" is meaningless, entirely just like "new line". text administration flows by viewport and so on.
1833148;1531237291;phf;i don't know what a by file processor is
1833149;1531237317;phf;actually, i think i have a memory of that, and no btcbase is entirely hash first
1833150;1531237325;mircea_popescu;the only reason i can imagine someone'd have the problem you describe is if they built their thing around the primitive "file" rather than around the primitive "patch"
1833151;1531237355;mircea_popescu;so if it's built around patches and the patches are different what difference does it make that two different patches might apply the same tranforms to the same files ?
1833152;1531237362;phf;mircea_popescu: the problem i describe exists in every single V implementation, hence none of them can press a particular graph
1833153;1531237375;mircea_popescu;this may well be. i just don't get why.
1833154;1531237437;phf;well, i'm having hard time thinking about it, yet alone articulating it. like i told ascii (before we continued talking about it anyway), i need some time to reupload the problem, because i haven't thought about it in a while.
1833155;1531237471;mircea_popescu;not very much though.
1833156;1531237514;phf;i haven't thought about it very much?
1833157;1531237857;mircea_popescu;there isn't very much time!
1833158;1531237935;mircea_popescu;however much time you might need to think, there isn't very much time altogether, because we can't sit around with an unresolved dilemma of both "this is the grapher use it" and "don't use it, doesn't work".
1833159;1531238096;phf;ah ah
1833160;1531238671;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the headache is from the fact of notion of 'file' having been baked quite firmly into unix patch util. the only 'final solution' presently known to asciilifeform for the entire class of topological ugh, is the trinquian cut.
1833161;1531238724;asciilifeform;i suppose there is also the other variant, where manifest.txt actually gets speshul treatment. but imho that's ugly.
1833162;1531238806;asciilifeform;( in trinquian algo, it is impossible to create multiple paths to the same state without creating a cycle, and the latter are detected by the cycle finder )
1833163;1531238977;mircea_popescu;in my own notes phf had written a replacement!
1833164;1531239003;mircea_popescu;recall, the huge discussion re patch / vpatch ?
1833165;1531239020;asciilifeform;iirc his replacement still follows the ancient algo.
1833166;1531239097;*;asciilifeform has not eaten phf's proggy yet
1833167;1531239131;mircea_popescu;that's why i asked!
1833168;1531239195;phf;originally my replacement was for diffing and patching exclusively, not the graph resolution problems. i was tasked with a replacement around the time when my food work got heavy, and i'm only now revisiting it. the problem wasn't even verbalized until closer the the end of vtools development, because particular choice of vtools delivery demonstrated the problem to begin with
1833169;1531239224;mircea_popescu;right.
1833170;1531239288;phf;btcbase (being a sprawling common lisp beast) has one of the possible solutions actually implemented and working. i'm wrestling the essence of it out, enough to add some kind of graph sorter to vtools
1833171;1531239293;mircea_popescu;i'm not proposing you should be hung or anything.
1833172;1531239333;phf;i figured that's not the case, i'm just reiterating the logs for the logs, because the evil twin of not reading the logs is apparently forgetting what was read in the logs
1833173;1531239347;asciilifeform;imho dispensing with 'files as a unit' is The Right Thing, rather than complicated graph walkers. but i'ma not replay the trinque thread.
1833174;1531239429;mircea_popescu;and the smalle third brother is reference-by-memory, where i say dumb shit like "that @@ discussion" instead of putting in a link.
1833175;1531239442;mircea_popescu;then ten years later memory's faded and nobody alive can untangle the yarn anymore.
1833176;1531239497;phf;personally-advantageous-obfuscation by reference-by-memory, we're reinventing the empire here
1833177;1531239504;asciilifeform;lol
1833178;1531239522;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1833179;1531239722;mircea_popescu;fwiw, memory never was anything other than "personally advantageous". them wetram cells gotta pay the glucose bills.
1833180;1531239810;asciilifeform;in the interest of proper log walks , 1) trinque whacks asciilifeform over the head with the headache of fileism, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765542 2) asciilifeform builds a trinqueian vtron frontend, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-02#1792071
1833181;1531239810;a111;Logged on 2018-01-05 23:18 trinque: you edit db.cpp. I edit main.cpp. how does someone now use both of those pieces of work in a 3rd patch.
1833182;1531239810;a111;Logged on 2018-04-02 22:04 asciilifeform: trinque, phf , other vtronicists : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html
1833183;1531239844;asciilifeform;( (1) was not the only instance, there were several, above link is most recent where asciilifeform was still resisting )
1833184;1531241197;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in the world of the strange, https://orbides.org/page.php?id=1026
1833185;1531241315;asciilifeform;^ d00d has own crackpot x86 os and various other tidbits.
1833186;1531243225;mircea_popescu;man aloooone!
1833187;1531243861;mircea_popescu;in other similar news, star quest tcg is a pretty fucking great game. polished and shit, apparently you can still have web development that's not crap
1833188;1531244029;asciilifeform;!!up RusAlex
1833189;1531244030;deedbot;RusAlex voiced for 30 minutes.
1833190;1531244170;asciilifeform;RusAlex: hello ?
1833191;1531244222;RusAlex;hi, thanks for voicing. just found a link on bitcoin.foundation and Im here.
1833192;1531244251;asciilifeform;RusAlex: i recommend to read the logs, http://btcbase.org/log/
1833193;1531244269;asciilifeform;RusAlex: chances are that you will find answer to your q. incl q that you didn't know you had.
1833194;1531244388;mircea_popescu;especially those.
1833195;1531244717;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathendom , https://archive.fo/RVOJd << stuxnet-style 'oops, taiwan 'lost' microshit signing keys' rerun.
1833196;1531244851;asciilifeform;https://archive.fo/ptBDO << for dedicated entomologists, detail.
1833197;1531244899;asciilifeform;might be interesting to collect whole set of microshit rsa certs into phuctor.
1833198;1531244928;asciilifeform;( for all i know, they're already in, dressed up as gpg keys by somebody or other... )
1833199;1531246531;mircea_popescu;i'm having for breakfast leftover sandwiches that were originally made for camping on the beach, so i figure... what the hell... and made myself a little model campfire out of toothpicks in the middle of the table.
1833200;1531246540;mircea_popescu;just thought the record should recleft.
1833201;1531246642;asciilifeform;didja stick one of those tiny sandwitch sabers in it ?
1833202;1531246898;mircea_popescu;i dun have any ;/
1833203;1531246910;mircea_popescu;and it shames me to admit just exactly how i came to not have any.
1833204;1531246977;asciilifeform;i'll bite. how ?
1833205;1531247066;mircea_popescu;broke them all trying to stab various butts & parts over time.
1833206;1531247078;mircea_popescu;they're not very well made, for sabers.
1833207;1531247123;asciilifeform;asciilifeform once saw -- i shit thee not -- titanium toothpicks for sale
1833208;1531247208;mircea_popescu;silver ones were kinda common during one of the silver crazes
1833209;1531247216;asciilifeform;https://titaner-store.com/products/toothpicks << at least 1 vendor making these today, apparently
1833210;1531247221;mircea_popescu;though if you're willing to spend money on silver tootpick why not just fix the holes.
1833211;1531247530;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828036 << this has been sloshing through my head for a while now ; and while it seems eminently correct a stance, and rather very much the manner in which we've been conducting our affairs to date, it readily also provides a solution for the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-05#1746522
1833212;1531247530;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 15:33 asciilifeform: Mocky: to function as a troo vtronicist, gotta grasp the concept, described by e.g. dijkstra, that a line of code you have written is not an asset, but an expense. (specifically, an expense against the time budget of other thinking people, who must read and grasp what you have written. )
1833213;1531247530;a111;Logged on 2017-12-05 14:17 asciilifeform: as for asciilifeform , he would actually prefer if mircea_popescu shot straight and said 'hell no i won't pay for no stinkin' software', rather than the peculiar ritual of having a contest, then to proclaim the submitters as a whole 'self-indulgent indolent' and then in the end to take s.nsa crypto lib and use for phree anyway
1833214;1531247530;mircea_popescu;specifically, writing software is not some kind of hired work, like polishing boots or cutting hair. writing software is a dignity, in the exact sense there contemplated : republic gives you, ivan ivanovich, a budget of so many lines, as if it were so many bitcoins, to ~EXPEND~ in a defensible, meaningful, useful an' rational fashion ( hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832667 discussion ).
1833215;1531247530;a111;Logged on 2018-07-07 18:19 mircea_popescu: esthlos welcome to the mechanisms of lordship. it's your project, it's your job to make this sort of decisions. "should this be rewritten in lisp, imported in ada, be turned into a point of grafting on eucrypt tree ?"
1833216;1531247530;mircea_popescu;just because it happens that in all other cases of "you're in charge of so-and-so-chapter of defense budget/film budget/family budget" one gets a fixed number to work with, whereas here the number's not aforeknown... makes entirely no difference. it's still budgetary exercise, that superficial difference is meaningless given the substantial identity.
1833217;1531247572;mircea_popescu;hm, this "write line as long as you wish, program will split" fix turns out to not play so well with logreader...
1833218;1531247578;mircea_popescu;i guess ima have to start actually hitting returns
1833219;1531247583;asciilifeform;lol
1833220;1531247923;asciilifeform;there is really nuffin magic or arcane re the dijstrean approach to programming. from asciilifeform's pov, it is simply continuation of the old su approach to engineering, where parts have not only physical mass but complexity-mass, and a rifle with 7 parts that take 28 mill cuts to make is superior to one with 47 that take 200 cuts, even if weighs same
1833221;1531247936;mircea_popescu;quite.
1833222;1531247943;mircea_popescu;and moreover, it is the only possible approach.
1833223;1531247977;asciilifeform;there are folx who labour under illusion that other approaches are possible, but they won't like where their lift is going.
1833224;1531247984;asciilifeform;( to latrine cellar. )
1833225;1531248038;Mocky;and moreover, a compounding expense (for software lines) forcing extra expense for future modifications
1833226;1531248117;asciilifeform;Mocky: 'expense' is not even a proper description. there aint enuff money on planet3 to buy e.g. transformation of microshit coadbase to anywhere near sanity.
1833227;1531248152;mircea_popescu;the only blessing is that you can cut off nodes.
1833228;1531248159;mircea_popescu;which is why the whole wot thing works so well for it.
1833229;1531248209;Mocky;asciilifeform, zackly: compounded expense now beyond paying
1833230;1531248224;asciilifeform;programming sans wot is rather similar to surgery pre-handwash. yer playing the 'did he take a shit that morning' lottery.
1833231;1531248230;mircea_popescu;not to mention it readily explains a lot of other things, such as why we opress the stupid, the poor, the "alternatively" sexuate, the bizarrely literate etcetera.
1833232;1531248278;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform very much, technology sufficiently primitive is indistinguishable from lottery
1833233;1531248309;asciilifeform;!!up sluttylouise
1833234;1531248310;deedbot;sluttylouise voiced for 30 minutes.
1833235;1531248316;asciilifeform;seems like we have a mircea_popescu patient ?
1833236;1531248323;mircea_popescu;heh
1833237;1531248394;asciilifeform;lol expired on the operating table ?
1833238;1531248413;mircea_popescu;computers are hard, what can i tell you.
1833239;1531248433;asciilifeform;hey i got some hard enuff to hammer nails with here!111
1833240;1531248634;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i can only admire the level of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829969 conspiraci : clueless girly logs on, it ~immediately~ resets its connection and launches a new one. 100% the cheapest most effectual confusion factor.
1833241;1531248634;a111;Logged on 2018-06-26 21:20 hanbot: mircea_popescu by design apple exists to try and make you use its thing, whether it's some itam or some os or some cable, and it'll make things maximally unpleasant for anyone not on the bandwagon, at any point where the nonapple and the apple touch.
1833242;1531248666;mircea_popescu;how the empire manages to ~DELIVER~ right around the fence is one of the most remarkable mysteries.
1833243;1531248675;mircea_popescu;sluttylouise little red tab right next to this one.
1833244;1531248715;asciilifeform;crapple-pnoje has the 'background proggy gets kill -STOP after 30 sec' thing
1833245;1531248728;asciilifeform;not really usable for irc without bouncer
1833246;1531248757;mircea_popescu;i doubt it was background.
1833247;1531248774;asciilifeform;either that or the train went in tunnel.
1833248;1531248789;mircea_popescu;same ip, see ?
1833249;1531248818;asciilifeform;at one time i reproduced exactly same pattern , in train.
1833250;1531248822;mircea_popescu;no, it just somehow manages to deliver 100% of what needs delivery to the marginal. it does nothing to you, and the fact that it manages to keep kazure captive is of no consequence
1833251;1531248836;mircea_popescu;soviet survives while it can keep the large mass of epsilonians inside.
1833252;1531248864;asciilifeform;hey, loads lolcats, what moar could 'anyone' want, right.
1833253;1531248893;mircea_popescu;it is not quite that simple.
1833254;1531249008;asciilifeform;hm?
1833255;1531249097;mircea_popescu;suppose there's a measure of human fitness, not quite IQ but anyway, just as insanely, a positive integer scalar. suppose there's a measure of human confusion, going from 0 (full pantrsuit, actually believes socialism is a thing, etc) to 1 (actual republican).
1833256;1531249125;mircea_popescu;now, the fence separating the 2nd scale 0-epsilon from the rest of the world doesn't necessarily keep inside 0-epsilons on the first scale.
1833257;1531249137;mircea_popescu;they're not unrelated scales, of course, but they're related backwards.
1833258;1531249412;Mocky;re: ~DELIVER~ right around the fence: there's a lot of zeks employed working around the appleness to make new shiny for the epsilonians. part of the chumpatron
1833259;1531249438;mircea_popescu;certainly, but most us army grunts have to buy their own whatever, silly string.
1833260;1531249706;BingoBoingo;In other news of interest to asciilifeform: Tienda Inglesa has taken down their seasonal display of TV's for the word cup and replaced them with a display of... Ammo can... well, they labeled them toolboxes
1833261;1531250093;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/un-funds-witchcraft-program-at-university-of-zambia/ << Qntra - UN Funds Witchcraft Program At University Of Zambia
1833262;1531250547;phf;hmm, cp101pa hardware is really flaky, or perhaps i got a dud unit, because the "random shutdowns" "can't wake up" "stuck in a turn on/turn off mode" issues persist
1833263;1531250570;asciilifeform;phf: didja take the heatsink off ? if yes, gotta regrease
1833264;1531250621;phf;nah, i didn't go as far as motherboard removal. i was thinking this might be heat issue, but that would be out of the box, and the pattern don't really correspond to heating
1833265;1531250682;phf;tried to turn it on right now, the lightbulb blinking rapidly and there's like a "turn on suddenly turn off" whine from board if you listen up close
1833266;1531250711;asciilifeform;sounds like dud box, mine did not do this
1833267;1531250725;phf;so i closed the lid, reopened tried again, now it boots, but the unix time is at 0
1833268;1531250752;phf;just literally lightly moved the unit, it shut down
1833269;1531250823;phf;sad, i was warming up to it as a note taking tool..
1833270;1531251090;phf;asciilifeform: have you been using yours extensively, i.e. as a booted device, running linux etc. on a day to day, or it's only been on trepanation table so far?
1833271;1531251116;asciilifeform;phf: in graveyard nao, but i had it running continuously off the dc brick for coupla weeks
1833272;1531251325;asciilifeform;phf: possibly pertinent diff, is that i regreased it
1833273;1531251339;asciilifeform;( scraped off the factory white shitgrease when photo'd mb )
1833274;1531251400;phf;hm, possibly
1833275;1531251567;mircea_popescu;maybe it does not approve of your room.
1833276;1531251569;asciilifeform;wouldn't be the first example of chinesium that overtherms with factory grease.
1833277;1531251584;phf;i'm going to go with mp's theory
1833278;1531251826;BingoBoingo;Right, the problem has to be your room isn't intimidating it enough into behaving. Pick up a car battery and some cables with alligator clamps. Don't attach the battery to the machine. Just let it sit where the chromebook can see it.
1833279;1531251859;mircea_popescu;maybe if we keep going in this vein we can get the un to sponsor trilema.
1833280;1531251867;BingoBoingo;Sometimes the implied threat works better making the technology behave
1833281;1531251955;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> maybe if we keep going in this vein we can get the un to sponsor trilema. << Phf hasn't turned the chromebook into ladypants yet
1833282;1531252005;phf;BingoBoingo: i think it's about the right mindset though, can have all the tools in the world, and you're still going to look like a jerk off. nah, i think i just need to get my head game straight
1833283;1531252506;mircea_popescu;your what ?
1833284;1531252572;BingoBoingo;His headgame, the series of puzzles he presents to size up strangers.
1833285;1531252627;phf;it's the lingo cool kids use these days
1833286;1531252756;mircea_popescu;apparently http://btcbase.org/log/2013-08-22#251228
1833287;1531252756;a111;Logged on 2013-08-22 17:41 mircea_popescu: <Rulother> you know you can't just power cycle a machine with no idea what's going on :D
1833288;1531256679;deedbot;http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/07/10/some-branching-troubles-on-existing-v-trees/ << Ossasepia - Some Branching Troubles on Existing V Trees
1833289;1531256932;BingoBoingo;!!up Scwepp
1833290;1531256932;deedbot;Scwepp voiced for 30 minutes.
1833291;1531257113;Scwepp;Did men create everything in this world?
1833292;1531257437;diana_coman;Scwepp, did you solve all the other, more close to home problems and that's the only trouble you have left?
1833293;1531257478;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832349 << yes, I am interested in trying this
1833294;1531257478;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 17:24 trinque: maybe PeterL or danielpbarron want to give it a try too
1833295;1531257480;mircea_popescu;ave1 ^ btw ( the article, not the retard)
1833296;1531257630;diana_coman;huh, no stamina even, where are the retards d'antan
1833297;1531257650;mircea_popescu;i was just thinking, it's so rare for one to take a hint.
1833298;1531257692;diana_coman;there were at least 2 pointy hints this time!
1833299;1531257714;asciilifeform;wtf is a scwepp anyway
1833300;1531257744;diana_coman;the sound made in the void between the ears?
1833301;1531257767;mircea_popescu;speaking of pointy things, got any shiny rock ?
1833302;1531257785;diana_coman;ahaha, I just dug up some q67
1833303;1531257848;mircea_popescu;yay!
1833304;1531257914;PeterL;so I have been looking at v. (specifically asciilifeform's python version) it seems to me that there should be a "pruning" step after the flow is laid out to remove any patches that are not ancestors of the desired leaf, so that you would not have to manually remove patches.
1833305;1531257953;asciilifeform;PeterL: read again the algo. at no point will it attempt to press a patch that is not an ancestor of the selected leaf.
1833306;1531257990;PeterL;but then why are people having trouble with the two branches of vtools?
1833307;1531258031;asciilifeform;i'm still waiting to hear what, specifically, happens on v99 re subj ( currently hands full, haven't tested personally )
1833308;1531258053;PeterL;it seems like with branches a-b-c and a-b-d it ends up making a flow a-b-c-d ?
1833309;1531258087;diana_coman;fwiw it's not a matter of pressing weird stuff - v.pl doesn't even report some patches in the flow at all if ALL patches in both branches are present
1833310;1531258095;*;asciilifeform brb,meat
1833311;1531258116;diana_coman;the actual pressing as far as v reports the flow works as expected
1833312;1531258271;mircea_popescu;PeterL you know there are limits to this hobbyist approach.
1833313;1531258290;PeterL;yes, I know
1833314;1531258519;mircea_popescu;solving any problem consists of carefully loading very finely defined borders of issues in one's head. the hobbyst approach relies on a sort of "generally speaking", consisting of "people" and "having trouble" and "in the general area". as you might imagine, the mismatch is deeply irritating to the first set.
1833315;1531258584;PeterL;alright, I will try to refine my language
1833316;1531258634;diana_coman;did anyone actually press the re-grind of mp-wp genesis ? (this: http://thewhet.net/2018/06/mp-wp-genesis-regrind/ )?
1833317;1531258646;mircea_popescu;presumably, hanbot. why, it dies ?
1833318;1531258692;diana_coman;today is clearly not my day for working stuff; it's the weirdest thing I've seen: v.pl dies at *different files* at each run complaining that sha sum doesn't match
1833319;1531258719;diana_coman;and on one hand the file complained about has only *one* entry in the genesis vpatch i.e. just created so wtf
1833320;1531258748;diana_coman;and on the other hand sure enough the hash calculated on whatever it spew of it is the one it reports and ofc it doesn't match what is in the vpatch
1833321;1531258763;mircea_popescu;epic.
1833322;1531258785;mircea_popescu;encoding issue ? did some magic utshits make it in maybe ?
1833323;1531258785;diana_coman;so I'm asking here as honestly I had quite enough of software for today
1833324;1531258903;diana_coman;no idea but fwiw I was playing with it on the rockchip; as far as I can tell both lobbes and esthlos used some previous versions; (btw esthlos can you maybe show the date of the post somewhere convenient? it's really weird to have to guess it/search for it)
1833325;1531258944;diana_coman;ah, um, nv esthlos ; found it at the bottom, lol
1833326;1531258967;mircea_popescu;ftr date should be at top, in the byline, with the author's name under the title~!
1833327;1531258977;diana_coman;that's where I was looking for it!
1833328;1531259033;mircea_popescu;"it’s not a stop game in itself" -> "it's not in itself a game stopper"
1833329;1531259049;diana_coman;right
1833330;1531259058;mircea_popescu;english is practically speaking sorted the other way.
1833331;1531259231;diana_coman;fixed, thanks
1833332;1531260425;PeterL;trinque: from http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview/ "You must supply the script with a working kernel config for your target hardware." << is there a reference on how to get a config?
1833333;1531260615;ben_vulpes;PeterL: i started from the output of 'make menuconfig' and pruned it over time
1833334;1531260650;ben_vulpes;(from /usr/src/linux on a gentoo)
1833335;1531260652;asciilifeform;PeterL: if it's a 'common' iron, e.g. x60, or pizarro opteron, or rockchip -- then can base it off a asciilifeform
1833336;1531260656;asciilifeform;-config
1833337;1531260672;asciilifeform;otherwise yer on your own
1833338;1531260751;PeterL;I was thinking of trying to repurpose an old macbookpro I had lying around
1833339;1531260784;asciilifeform;PeterL: iirc phf had some recipe for these
1833340;1531261340;asciilifeform;btw, phf, dollars to doughnuts you have a loose battery connector. the whine and reset unixtime is dead giveaway
1833341;1531261397;asciilifeform;( turn on from the wall with entirely removed battery, you get the whine 24/7, the inductors were sized for batt charge + run load )
1833342;1531279646;mod6;does anyone know if the deedbot wallet requires manual intervention (by trinque) for the deposit portion?
1833343;1531279809;mod6;!!up trinque
1833344;1531279809;deedbot;trinque voiced for 30 minutes.
1833345;1531279812;mircea_popescu;mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831576
1833346;1531279812;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 20:53 deedbot: http://trinque.org/2018/07/03/brief-hiatus-on-withdraw/ << trinque - Brief hiatus on Deedbot Wallet !!withdraw
1833347;1531279828;mod6;thx mircea_popescu
1833348;1531279902;trinque;as it happens, I can reach the deposit lever and will shortly mod6
1833349;1531279954;mod6;ah! ok, ben and I are gonna need that -- just holler when you're ready.
1833350;1531279973;mircea_popescu;omg maybe it's a false trinque reaching ersatz levers!
1833351;1531280004;trinque;couuuld be
1833352;1531280039;trinque;mod6: yep don't see any inbound yet. I will likely be asleep when the required confirmations roll in.
1833353;1531280050;trinque;but can get ya in the morning
1833354;1531280077;mod6;ok, i think the deposit will be coming from ben_vulpes
1833355;1531280155;trinque;thx for checking before firing off.
1833356;1531280189;mod6;for sure.
1833357;1531280635;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833324 << makes sense, added it
1833358;1531280635;a111;Logged on 2018-07-10 21:41 diana_coman: no idea but fwiw I was playing with it on the rockchip; as far as I can tell both lobbes and esthlos used some previous versions; (btw esthlos can you maybe show the date of the post somewhere convenient? it's really weird to have to guess it/search for it)
1833359;1531280834;esthlos;by the way hanbot , does the mp-wp come with the footnotes and spiffy-selection built in?
1833360;1531280858;esthlos;(I couldn't find it, added by hand)
1833361;1531280941;trinque;esthlos: sounds like a good vpatch atop, eh?
1833362;1531280993;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833105 << fwiw phf, esthlos-v resolves the graph in the same manner as btcbase, and can press based at any node. of course, without checking the hashes, currently...
1833363;1531280993;a111;Logged on 2018-07-10 14:17 phf: like i said couple of days ago i'm going to forward merge that whole right side, right now the only advise is to delete the right hand side because none of the extant V's can resolve that graph, obviously a suboptimal suggestion. i'm working on a better grapher, but until then..
1833364;1531281046;esthlos;trinque: yes it does, I'm trying not to overcommit but could definitely add once the Keccak/V stuff is off my plate
1833365;1531283944;hanbot;diana_coman the regrind presses here without errors with phf's vpatch. i didn't try pressing with v.pl, possibly they're incompatible...?
1833366;1531284330;hanbot;esthlos it doesn't. footnotes source & instructions are in http://thewhet.net/2017/10/a-compendium-of-possibly-helpful-stuffs-for-erecting-mircea-popescus-wordpress-with-nearly-free-speech-hosting/ , and i've never actually taken on the selection jazz. i can tuck em both into next patch tho.
1833367;1531288859;ben_vulpes;ah, thanks trinque, figured i was s.o.l.
1833368;1531307800;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833362 << oh i see, your flow command outputs an impossible ordering, but press-path gives a correct press order, so i was wrong, sorry about the fud
1833369;1531307800;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 03:49 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833105 << fwiw phf, esthlos-v resolves the graph in the same manner as btcbase, and can press based at any node. of course, without checking the hashes, currently...
1833370;1531316837;diana_coman;hanbot, right, it's keccak hashes so ofc v.pl barfs although it's weird that it first presses so much of it and only then randomly throws up; at any rate, on different arch, phf's vpatch pressed the mp-wp genesis so at least the genesis itself seems all right
1833371;1531316975;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831973 -> asciilifeform any eta/status/update/something on this?
1833372;1531316975;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 17:59 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I get it: clone of dulap is pointless because it requires rotor-style which can be equally done on existing server; but we are talking of having a box with trinque's musltronic proto-cuntoo
1833373;1531317105;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's in the pipeline for this week. hopefully trinque's beta cuntoo actually worx.
1833374;1531317129;diana_coman;right, good to know
1833375;1531317176;asciilifeform;as i understand this will be the first field test outside of his bench.
1833376;1531317248;mircea_popescu;afaik v.pl is no longer maintained
1833377;1531317281;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hmm, last i knew, mod6 was still supporting it
1833378;1531317325;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, it's not a v.pl problem really at any rate; it wasn't directly clear keccak hashes and yest was a long day here
1833379;1531317328;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816080 << apparently it actually even presses ?
1833380;1531317328;a111;Logged on 2018-05-20 18:42 mod6: When you see it in the flow, then you should be good.  Then you'll have to do : ./v.pl p v mpwp mp-wp_genesis.vpatch pd mpwp sd .mpwp-seals
1833381;1531317343;diana_coman;o.O
1833382;1531317349;diana_coman;I thought that was the old one?
1833383;1531317352;mircea_popescu;tbh, i tihnk what happened here was : original mpwp was sha, then hanbot reground it
1833384;1531317358;mircea_popescu;right.
1833385;1531317392;diana_coman;yes; I suppose it would have helped to have in the list there the move form sha to keccak
1833386;1531317410;diana_coman;i.e in http://thewhet.net/2018/06/mp-wp-genesis-regrind/
1833387;1531317431;mircea_popescu;word.
1833388;1531317452;trinque;asciilifeform: pretty high degree of confidence in the build. oughta be exact same deps on your end as what I had on the workbench
1833389;1531317469;trinque;most of "will it boot" sits with the kernel config anyway
1833390;1531317487;diana_coman;<asciilifeform> as i understand this will be the first field test outside of his bench. <- smg is an ice breaker of all sorts, what can I tell you
1833391;1531317494;asciilifeform;trinque: i'ma revv it up with my current dulap kernel, customer can reconfig as desired
1833392;1531320583;mod6;mornin'
1833393;1531320631;phf;morn
1833394;1531321852;BingoBoingo;Mornin'
1833395;1531322273;mod6;o7
1833396;1531322434;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/commercial-ship-faces-seige-at-sea-after-rescuing-african-migrants/ << Qntra - Commercial Ship Faces Seige At Sea After Rescuing African Migrants
1833397;1531322975;mircea_popescu;gawd i fucking love BingoBoingo 's titles.
1833398;1531322988;BingoBoingo;tyvm
1833399;1531322992;mircea_popescu;i'm like leaving in a hurry and shit, but can't not stop and read that
1833400;1531323017;BingoBoingo;lol, this shit happens
1833401;1531323468;*;phf read that as "tities", was very confused
1833402;1531323895;phf;stay tuned for further important contributions of to the conversation!
1833403;1531324602;mod6;haha
1833404;1531325265;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/high-volume-california-localbitcoins-trader-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty/ << Qntra - High Volume California LocalBitcoins Trader Sentenced After Pleading Guilty
1833405;1531327167;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: seems like you did not plug the nic in on new s.mg ?!
1833406;1531327409;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: both nics show link down
1833407;1531327455;*;asciilifeform unable to proceed until this is fixed
1833408;1531327464;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Will dive and do plugs right now
1833409;1531327470;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ty
1833410;1531327695;asciilifeform;also siege, not seige
1833411;1531328273;BingoBoingo;Plugged in
1833412;1531328315;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: worx, ty
1833413;1531328326;BingoBoingo;And title fixed
1833414;1531328988;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque out of curiosity, why does your cuntoo installer enable swapping ?
1833415;1531328989;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1833416;1531329026;asciilifeform;i'ma fix this.
1833417;1531329057;asciilifeform;per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-29#1806242 .
1833418;1531329057;a111;Logged on 2018-04-29 13:50 asciilifeform: esthlos: imho absolutely not; i haven't built a linix box with swapping to disk enabled, in decade+ ( 'secure alloc' simply means 'marked unswappable' )
1833419;1531329351;asciilifeform;it also creates msdos-type disklabel, this will be problem later for boxes with large raid (caps at 2tb)
1833420;1531329691;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque (running from the ben_vulpes livecd stick) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HvavG/?raw=true << it bombs
1833421;1531329691;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1833422;1531329767;*;asciilifeform about to try with the portage...630 switched to the ...601 which is actually included
1833423;1531330059;asciilifeform;seems to be going nao.
1833424;1531330330;asciilifeform;hmm, why does it emerge gcc5 ???
1833425;1531330404;asciilifeform;( not accident, but per trinque's script,  chroot . emerge '=gcc-5.4.0-r4::musl' )
1833426;1531330527;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZiuRv/?raw=true << whole thing, for reference, with the ..601 and removal of swappism being the only changes asciilifeform made
1833427;1531330620;asciilifeform;all i found re discussion is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-23#1757354 item
1833428;1531330620;a111;Logged on 2017-12-23 09:27 trinque: does appear that when using the gentoo musltronic patches, the step from 6 -> 5 -> 4 gcc is necessary.
1833429;1531330740;ben_vulpes;!!up hobotrinque
1833430;1531330741;deedbot;hobotrinque voiced for 30 minutes.
1833431;1531330778;hobotrinque;removing swap is totally fine by me. musl gcc-4 would not build on gcc-6
1833432;1531330810;asciilifeform;hobotrinque: so theoretically this should be fixable when we bolt on ave1's gcc as the initial binary, aha ?
1833433;1531330818;hobotrinque;indeed
1833434;1531330821;asciilifeform;neato.
1833435;1531330835;asciilifeform;for nao, i'ma go with what trinque gave.
1833436;1531330849;asciilifeform;( thing is still humming along, building various proggies )
1833437;1531330861;hobotrinque;cool deal. bye for now
1833438;1531330892;asciilifeform;ty hobotrinque .
1833439;1531330895;ben_vulpes;!!down hobotrinque
1833440;1531331646;asciilifeform;there's a coupla things obviously missing from the alpha cuntoo, e.g. my anti-poetteringolade ban mask, make flags for actually using the 32 cpus of the box, possibly other things. but i'ma let diana_coman add these at her leisure, box will be delivered with what is as close as possible to trinque's original item ( i'ma config the nic and that's it )
1833441;1531331655;asciilifeform;it will also need ave1's gcc/gnat
1833442;1531331743;asciilifeform;if diana_coman wants any of these things prior to delivery, plz to let asciilifeform know today !
1833443;1531332065;trinque;which use flag bans did you see missing?
1833444;1531332065;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 51 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> out of curiosity, why does your cuntoo installer enable swapping ?
1833445;1531332066;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 39 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> (running from the ben_vulpes livecd stick) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HvavG/?raw=true << it bombs
1833446;1531332171;asciilifeform;trinque: my current set :   USE="-libnotify -consolekit -gtk3 -systemd -cups -dbus -gpm -avahi -gnome -tls-heartbeat -nls"
1833447;1531332181;asciilifeform;( as seen on dulap and rockchip )
1833448;1531332193;asciilifeform;oh lol i missed a line
1833449;1531332216;asciilifeform;trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr"
1833450;1531332353;asciilifeform;i take back most of my whine. ( libnotify & gnome need to be on the ban list, they are very often pulled in by various, incl iirc firefox )
1833451;1531333926;phf;asciilifeform: do you use freetype on your boxes?
1833452;1531333945;asciilifeform;phf: the ones with xorg -- yes
1833453;1531333992;phf;what about poppler?
1833454;1531334008;asciilifeform;afaik nowhere
1833455;1531334022;asciilifeform;possibly on the oldest boxen, i'ma have to look
1833456;1531334029;asciilifeform;phf: why ?
1833457;1531334119;phf;just curious, i'm trying to figure out where to draw the line on hairshirts. postscript pulls poppler for its pdf backend (so does latex, etc. but i'm not even going there)
1833458;1531334139;phf;*ghostscript rather
1833459;1531334321;phf;i think we might've discussed how all these utility libraries (particularly freedesktop ones) are the holes through which the darkness comes. poppler is one of them, a fork of venerable xpdf it is now everywhere where pdf manipulation is done, naturally with no way to turn of said manipulation when need be
1833460;1531334374;asciilifeform;phf: afaik there does not currently exist anything like a hygienic latex or ghostscript recipe
1833461;1531334390;asciilifeform;( neither belongs on server, so i've not put much attention in it as of yet )
1833462;1531334434;phf;i'm unconvinced there can be such a thing as hygienic latex, possibly there can be ghostscript if you pull out the pdf support (?)
1833463;1531334446;diana_coman;asciilifeform, the ban mask and flags for using the 32 cpus of the box seem to me absolutely needed as a minimum; mind adding them ?
1833464;1531334475;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ban mask seems to already be in trinque's recipe ( i'ma add the missing flag ) ; make -j32  i will add.
1833465;1531334477;diana_coman;and then I read next line, lol
1833466;1531334483;diana_coman;thanks!
1833467;1531334485;asciilifeform;np
1833468;1531334522;asciilifeform;thing is still building various proggies , but oughta be ready later today.
1833469;1531334545;diana_coman;cool
1833470;1531334741;asciilifeform;( prolly wouldn't hurt to put a '# of cpus' param in trinque's script itself, in the chroot-making step, would speed up the actual bringup of cuntoo boxen considerably )
1833471;1531334756;asciilifeform;(as it is, it is happening ~32x slower than could)
1833472;1531340819;asciilifeform;aaaand grrrrrr asciilifeform realizes that he neglected to remove trinque's 'console to serial port only' thing.
1833473;1531340859;mircea_popescu;from experience, girl-girl relationships have two states : miffed, or muffed.
1833474;1531340930;asciilifeform;box is 1) wedged on boot , at 'booting kernel' or some unknowable later point 2) i cannot reset it from here , will need interactive help from BingoBoingo , and not once but several times ( if permitted to boot into trinque's cuntoo, and no worky, needs reset )
1833475;1531341059;mircea_popescu;i see you've been having funtoo ?
1833476;1531341769;mircea_popescu;re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833446 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833449 it would seem the correct mezcla would go USE="libressl offensive -X -libnotify -avahi -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -avahi -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr -tls-heartbeat" on the expectation -X does -gpm -gtk3 -gnome implicitly.
1833477;1531341769;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 18:02 asciilifeform: trinque: my current set :   USE="-libnotify -consolekit -gtk3 -systemd -cups -dbus -gpm -avahi -gnome -tls-heartbeat -nls"
1833478;1531341769;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 18:03 asciilifeform: trinque has : USE="libressl offensive -X -acl -bluetooth -consolekit -cups -dbus -iconv -nls -pulseaudio -systemd -wayland -xattr"
1833479;1531341806;mircea_popescu;though i recall asciilifeform making noises about using X on servers ? perhaps the only person who does, i dunno.
1833480;1531341919;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833460 <- in no small part because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704534 / http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ issues.
1833481;1531341919;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 18:39 asciilifeform: phf: afaik there does not currently exist anything like a hygienic latex or ghostscript recipe
1833482;1531341919;a111;Logged on 2017-08-29 01:03 mircea_popescu: kanzure are you capable of standing up a bot which takes a link to a pdf and responds with a http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hello/?raw=true link containing the contents ?
1833483;1531342064;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833462 << why though ? i can't for the life of me imagine how one's to have glyphs otherwise, for one thing, and honestly didn't it start out hygienic ?
1833484;1531342064;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 18:40 phf: i'm unconvinced there can be such a thing as hygienic latex, possibly there can be ghostscript if you pull out the pdf support (?)
1833485;1531342097;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833470 << yes.
1833486;1531342097;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 18:45 asciilifeform: ( prolly wouldn't hurt to put a '# of cpus' param in trinque's script itself, in the chroot-making step, would speed up the actual bringup of cuntoo boxen considerably )
1833487;1531342220;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plox to ping asciilifeform at your earliest , we gotta do a reset dance
1833488;1531342337;asciilifeform;oooh and i found why no boot : root=/dev/sda3 console=ttyS0,115200n8  << oughta be sda2 , given as i abolished swap
1833489;1531342389;asciilifeform;( iirc trinque originally built this for some very small vga-less box )
1833490;1531342481;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833479 << nope. why would anyone.
1833491;1531342481;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 20:43 mircea_popescu: though i recall asciilifeform making noises about using X on servers ? perhaps the only person who does, i dunno.
1833492;1531342506;asciilifeform;i do occasionally use x on headless boxen, on lan.
1833493;1531342516;asciilifeform;( proggy runs on 1, displays on another. )
1833494;1531342527;asciilifeform;on public-facing server tho ? nope
1833495;1531342612;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833483 << lulzily, it 'started hygienic' because outputted ancient oddball format, 'dvi', which was eaten by certain classic phototypesetters. but afaik the only way to display it on current linux is via conversion to postscript/pdf. which in turn pulls in liquishit.
1833496;1531342612;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 20:47 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833462 << why though ? i can't for the life of me imagine how one's to have glyphs otherwise, for one thing, and honestly didn't it start out hygienic ?
1833497;1531342634;asciilifeform;phf also documented some other corruptions of latex in recent decade, but the details currently escape me, iirc in the log somewhere
1833498;1531343109;mircea_popescu;breaking latex out of the evil linux clutches may actually be a worthy thing.
1833499;1531343121;mircea_popescu;also, ABOLISH BETTER!
1833500;1531343129;asciilifeform;lol
1833501;1531343147;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: conceivably latex can be cured. iirc phf has a slow-burning march in that direction.
1833502;1531343178;asciilifeform;at the very minimum, would need some way to actually use ( display, print ? ) the thing that it outputs.
1833503;1531343203;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1833504;1531343217;asciilifeform;the obvious headache being , that there does not currently exist anything resembling a sane format that it could shit.
1833505;1531343248;mircea_popescu;yes well.
1833506;1531343257;mircea_popescu;the sooner i don't have to hear pdf anymore the better.
1833507;1531343279;mircea_popescu;fucktarded format possibly only paralleled in sheer idiocy by "youtube video"
1833508;1531343294;mircea_popescu;contents, too, but that's a different discussion.
1833509;1531343297;asciilifeform;in the '80s, sony (yes) tried to make a latex that natively writes to a screen. ('sony news' workstation). i dunno how well it worked, they got out of comp biznis..
1833510;1531343343;mircea_popescu;inb4 phf misreads "pdf"
1833511;1531343437;asciilifeform;subj is perennially fascinating to asciilifeform , how all of the folx with actually promising ideas re comp, withered away and died in '80s, leaving crapple & microshit.
1833512;1531343558;asciilifeform;the schoolboy explanation, 'money went with ibm/microshit', dun hold water, xerox had ~infinite moneys, ditto texas instruments ( 1 of the largest semiconductor houses of its time ) , made 0 diff
1833513;1531343802;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: does there actually exist a 'youtube video format' or do they use the 'html5' horror ?
1833514;1531344180;mircea_popescu;in practical terms, "youtube video" is an url, like p.bvulpes.com/paste/<code>.
1833515;1531344233;asciilifeform;right, but there's also a layer of obscene hacks to make the actual compressed frames ride somehow atop http etc.
1833516;1531344238;mircea_popescu;that's the whole fuckign thing. and it was a primary driver in the mind breakage of the 00s, and deeply related to practical issues such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833240
1833517;1531344238;a111;Logged on 2018-07-10 18:50 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can only admire the level of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-26#1829969 conspiraci : clueless girly logs on, it ~immediately~ resets its connection and launches a new one. 100% the cheapest most effectual confusion factor.
1833518;1531344270;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i wouldn't dignify that shitshow with a mention, from the engineering pov. everyone involved i know of is deeply ashamed of their participation.
1833519;1531344324;asciilifeform;it is worse than mircea_popescu likely fathoms; asciilifeform suspects that the bandwidth for lolcat watchers to watch the lolcats is 100% bezzle-powered, there does not exist anything like a +ev model for pushing video to all-comers
1833520;1531344330;mircea_popescu;it's not like "author of guillotine", but rather "the guy who came up with the trick of telling jews the gaschamber's for showering".
1833521;1531344364;asciilifeform;picture this, luser gets to load 500MB just for the asking, and sometimes without even asking ( background tab etc crapola )
1833522;1531344374;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform youtube is not mostly lolcats. youtube is mostly male dweebs in a shitsty talking in an annoying voice way too close to the mic. and picking their nose "discreetely" while they nasalize.
1833523;1531344389;asciilifeform;speaking 'lolcats' generally, inclusive of these
1833524;1531344398;mircea_popescu;2nd by volume, VERY unstable outdoor shots.
1833525;1531344404;asciilifeform;incl. 'warcraft' films, whichever terrifying bonfires of bandwidth.
1833526;1531344420;mircea_popescu;gaming feeds have a different tube.
1833527;1531344444;*;asciilifeform generally has nfi, doesn't actively follow subj
1833528;1531344461;mircea_popescu;i'm like ye olde admirality, comissioning maps of the seven seas.
1833529;1531344529;asciilifeform;point was, i suspect that there cannot be such a thing as 'sane video www', there is elementarily no way to pay for the necessary bw with honest money
1833530;1531344578;asciilifeform;it is an intrinsically chumpatronic artifact.
1833531;1531344610;mircea_popescu;it was a dream, back in 1999. "wikipedia of knowledge", "internet of things", there's an entire catalogue of graham&andreessen's boogers on napkins that male http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831739 retards constructed.
1833532;1531344610;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 13:04 BingoBoingo: Ah, that's Randi Zuckerburg's old bestie
1833533;1531344616;asciilifeform;just as implied in the name. 'turn net into cable tv'.
1833534;1531344631;mircea_popescu;you were going to "check your breakin video cameras from everywhere" or somesuch.
1833535;1531344676;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: pong, details
1833536;1531344693;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: aah there you are. get thee to the dc cellar, and plox to ping back.
1833537;1531344719;mircea_popescu;it's funny, though, i spent the 90s thinking "oh, man, videoconfereincing will be SO COOL!!!" and then the 2010s going "fuck you and your stupid camera, get on irc like normal people. i really don't need to see you sweat."
1833538;1531344780;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enuff , in usa at&t built a 'video phone' in the 1960s (!) . had to upgrade trunk cabling in entire country to make it thinkable ( the orig 't1' line dates to this period . ) net # of takers was... approx 0
1833539;1531344802;mircea_popescu;currently can't be arsed to get even http://trilema.com/2018/on-the-internet-nobody-believes-youre-a-sow/ girlies on video feeds.
1833540;1531344818;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i know, right ?
1833541;1531344819;asciilifeform;'why to watch the d00d on the line sweat?' believe or not, discovered even then.
1833542;1531344836;asciilifeform;yet somehow, like '3d movie theatre', gets 'rediscovered' again & again.
1833543;1531344876;mircea_popescu;because "ideas" from julianne whatshername.
1833544;1531344896;asciilifeform;with some admixture of 'maybe ~this~ generation of lusers is dumb enuff'
1833545;1531344902;mircea_popescu;guess what, the nude bios female will "rediscover" "love" every generation\
1833546;1531345073;mircea_popescu;anyway, the important point ~everyone~ (and i don't mean in pantsuitland, at all. it's not the "gender wars" people, it's the "scientists" and "engineers" and whatnot) avoids like snails avoid salt is that THEY WERE WRONG.
1833547;1531345083;asciilifeform;https://archive.li/OUKcq << for expert paleo-entomologists strictly. 'at&t picturephone', 1964.
1833548;1531345085;mircea_popescu;the "intellectual leadership" lead no one nowhere. all their "ideas" turned out to be shit.
1833549;1531345091;mircea_popescu;this has to be fucking confronted.
1833550;1531345112;mircea_popescu;an entire generation intellectually bankrupt on the cluelessness of "the tech sector leaders".
1833551;1531345133;mircea_popescu;from ers to who have you, ALL WRONG, 100% certifiably fucktarded, clueless and entirely extraneous to this world.
1833552;1531345191;mircea_popescu;the whole history of "technology" 1992 - 2018 readily reduces to "hey wouldn't x be cool ? let's do it! oops it totally sucks who the fuck came up with this" for values of x taken out of a set with a cardinality comparable to the cardinal of all sets.
1833553;1531345210;mircea_popescu;just dud after dud after dud after dud on top of dudly mc duderson.
1833554;1531345216;asciilifeform;hey, printing press keeps a-printin', why would they confront any such thing
1833555;1531345229;mircea_popescu;because they have the pretense to sit in a room with me.
1833556;1531345453;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu's 'tin woman' essay has the complete story re subj. while printing press prints, making comp for mircea_popescu 'aint big biznis', making ipnoje for lolcat and britney watchers -- is
1833557;1531345751;mircea_popescu;hardly.
1833558;1531345768;mircea_popescu;i would be much surprised if the current trend continues, where the chinese keep making the pacis for the ustards.
1833559;1531345782;asciilifeform;i actually have nfi why they do it.
1833560;1531345791;asciilifeform;possibly same reason brits refined opium for chinese.
1833561;1531345801;mircea_popescu;some people feed pig on xmas eve. who knows, inertia.
1833562;1531345823;mircea_popescu;it's better to cut it lean, but after doing it for so long you forget.
1833563;1531345884;asciilifeform;modern cn is big on the 'soft power' thing. i suppose calculated that it is cheaper to give the anglos toys and wait for'em to self-euthanize, than to war.
1833564;1531345915;mircea_popescu;what fucking war lmao.
1833565;1531345925;mircea_popescu;what, they'll "provide consultancy" to "chinese insurgents" ?
1833566;1531345983;hanbot;via hanbot's dad, help wanted ad from Eugene, where he recently moved: "The Room Oregon is opening Oregon Axe, an indoor axe throwing lounge! We are looking to fill a position with an energetic and outgoing individual! Oregon Axe will also be serving beer and wine."
1833567;1531345996;asciilifeform;ahahahahawaat
1833568;1531346010;asciilifeform;indoor frag-throwing lounge when.
1833569;1531346026;hanbot;next month, mebbe?!
1833570;1531346076;mircea_popescu;ahahaha
1833571;1531346109;mircea_popescu;i think this is actually a great tie-in for "corpoate events". drive people from mission district to eugene for "axing party". when they find out who got laid off.
1833572;1531346138;hanbot;lmao
1833573;1531346158;mircea_popescu;"and jerry has to go sit on the bean bag right over there"
1833574;1531346546;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i asked you to ping back, not to immediately lay hands on the box.
1833575;1531346562;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: or what , exactly is going on ? 1) it reset 2) usb stick no longer there ?
1833576;1531346731;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: back
1833577;1531346748;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I reset without USB stick
1833578;1531346756;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plz put it back !!
1833579;1531346775;asciilifeform;and pleeeez wait for instructions, rather than doing $randomthing
1833580;1531346785;BingoBoingo;back
1833581;1531346800;asciilifeform;ty
1833582;1531346846;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833379 << iirc mod6 was trying to get mp-wp genesis to work with v.pl, but it never actually pressed with it, sez so a handful of lines past that log link.
1833583;1531346846;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 13:55 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816080 << apparently it actually even presses ?
1833584;1531346853;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: try to endure the fan winds for another 20min (tops), i might need your magic hands again shortly
1833585;1531346860;BingoBoingo;Aite
1833586;1531346915;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833385 << diana_coman that's a good point; added a note on said post. and y'know, you can just tell me directly, "hey, this is dumb, do x".
1833587;1531346915;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 13:56 diana_coman: yes; I suppose it would have helped to have in the list there the move form sha to keccak
1833588;1531347519;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ummm didja unplug dulap ?"!?!!!
1833589;1531347521;asciilifeform;WHY
1833590;1531347531;asciilifeform;for FUCKS SAKE
1833591;1531347691;asciilifeform;in other omissions in trinque's cuntoo : lspci util. ( kernel build, box dun see nic, and i have no means of determining what the actual nic is, without again resetting into the live stick )
1833592;1531347869;mircea_popescu;funtoo upgraded to funthree.
1833593;1531347894;BingoBoingo;Dulap has not been touched
1833594;1531347906;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: nic on dulap was dead for a good 3 minutes.
1833595;1531347932;BingoBoingo;Blinkenlights appear normal
1833596;1531347973;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: part of the 'fun' is that asciilifeform is working through a ipkvm box at something like mars lander latency
1833597;1531348024;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo it might've not escaped your notice standard tool required on alf's workbench is blamebox. he knows better than to proceed without it, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833373 etc. in this case -- you're it.
1833598;1531348024;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 13:51 asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's in the pipeline for this week. hopefully trinque's beta cuntoo actually worx.
1833599;1531348118;*;mircea_popescu preloads a "shush, mr 'i removed swap but forgot to edit the sda count resulting in nonbootable item'!" in the buffer just in case it's needed.
1833600;1531348180;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: I have witnessed the alf problem solving process on this datacenter floor
1833601;1531348248;asciilifeform;aaaand again
1833602;1531348253;asciilifeform;and it seems to affect both boxes
1833603;1531348267;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: didja knock the switch mains loose somehow ...?
1833604;1531348270;BingoBoingo;More specific error message?
1833605;1531348281;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: whole lan goes dead intermittently
1833606;1531348317;mircea_popescu;truth be told ssh pipes are fragile ; the interwebs aren't that great and well... add on top of that the usg.nsa ineptitude.
1833607;1531348336;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nope. they are not. i had one going since early june.
1833608;1531348340;asciilifeform;and now whole lan flickering.
1833609;1531348347;BingoBoingo;Blinkenlgihts remain normal
1833610;1531348357;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plox to reseat mains ?
1833611;1531348392;asciilifeform;( on switch strictly )
1833612;1531348408;mircea_popescu;i don't think i ever saw a pipe live a whole month.
1833613;1531348416;mircea_popescu;then again, possibly not used enough.
1833614;1531348464;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've seen 0 flicker on pizarro pipes, period, since i plugged dulap in.
1833615;1531348472;asciilifeform;24/7.
1833616;1531348475;mircea_popescu;nice.
1833617;1531348479;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: To confirm you want the SWITCH reset?
1833618;1531348540;asciilifeform;no!!
1833619;1531348543;asciilifeform;re~seat~
1833620;1531348559;BingoBoingo;It's in there deep
1833621;1531348573;asciilifeform;aaand there we go again
1833622;1531348574;asciilifeform;whole lan
1833623;1531348617;BingoBoingo;I am not seeing whole lan. I am still talking to Qntra from outside our block
1833624;1531348632;asciilifeform;seems to affect at the very least dulap and the new box
1833625;1531348652;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Do you want those two power cycled?
1833626;1531348656;asciilifeform;no
1833627;1531348659;asciilifeform;absolutely not
1833628;1531348664;BingoBoingo;Aite
1833629;1531348782;asciilifeform;still dead
1833630;1531348795;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: try yanking out the new box's lan and ping back
1833631;1531348871;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It's blinkenlight is normal, but now the port the KVM is plugged into shows orange (as opposed to green) blinkenlight
1833632;1531348903;asciilifeform;ok looks like we have culprit...
1833633;1531348914;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo plox to sit down on somewhere other than dulap ip.
1833634;1531348928;asciilifeform;203-240 are vacant.
1833635;1531349033;asciilifeform;202 is to be the new box.
1833636;1531349104;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: plz lemme know when you have moved.
1833637;1531349120;asciilifeform;( and put back any hoses you may have pulled )
1833638;1531349179;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Moved
1833639;1531349187;asciilifeform;ty
1833640;1531349616;BingoBoingo;brb, Going to grab some vegetales while they are close
1833641;1531349684;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: you can leave the thing alone for nao
1833642;1531349702;asciilifeform;trinque: lemme get this straight, your script does 0 with kernel modules ? expectation is that there ain't any ?
1833643;1531349736;asciilifeform;this is why i have no nic.
1833644;1531350827;asciilifeform;soooooo diana_coman , mircea_popescu , i was able to bring up the box strictly by copying over a copy of my own dulap kernel
1833645;1531350864;asciilifeform;currently i am not able to make use of trinque's builder ( even though i fed it my kernel config verbatim ) as it does not handle the building and installation of the ramdisk where modules live ( dulap kernel is not presently cleansed of modulism )
1833646;1531350919;asciilifeform;however the box is online at 161.0.121.202 & ready for cuntoo userland's alpha testing . ( 1st thing you will want to do is prolly to install ave1's gnat . )
1833647;1531350942;asciilifeform;diana_coman ( or mircea_popescu ) plox to gpggram a ssh pubkey
1833648;1531350988;asciilifeform;* trinque's ~kernel~ builder << to be specific
1833649;1531351005;*;asciilifeform brb in ~10min
1833650;1531351659;asciilifeform;back
1833651;1531351730;asciilifeform;all in all this was quite a bit! closer to an automatic process than asciilifeform expected ! nifty piece of work, trinque . ( yes it had typo , and a few minor uglies i'll comment on later, but overall -- worx , ~unmodified, or at least would if i had a fully demodularized kernel )
1833652;1531351911;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo : tomorrow morning , plox to visit the cellar and carefully remove the ipkvm from the box, and cut mains to the ipkvm; also remove the usb stick from said box.
1833653;1531351966;asciilifeform;( if diana_coman indicates today that she wants to play with kernels, naturally leave kvm in )
1833654;1531351979;asciilifeform;i'ma bbl in about 1hr.
1833655;1531352073;BingoBoingo;ack
1833656;1531352850;mod6;Gentlemen, nice work!
1833657;1531353019;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/tales-de-todo-bien/ << Trilema - Tales de todo bien
1833658;1531353087;BingoBoingo;Fuck "todo bien"
1833659;1531353355;BingoBoingo;It's not human language, it's fucking birdsong
1833660;1531354020;mod6;Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, my personal node is again fully sync'd and chugging along.  I have re-added it to the list of advertised republican nodes.
1833661;1531354843;asciilifeform;congrats mod6
1833662;1531354871;asciilifeform;ty for the arms- and leg-work BingoBoingo
1833663;1531355078;asciilifeform;mod6: given the hour, i suspect that our customer is asleep , so s.mg-on-cuntoo will prolly happen tomorrow.
1833664;1531355106;mod6;werd, thanks for the hard-work & update tho asciilifeform
1833665;1531355377;asciilifeform;hey BingoBoingo , does this box have FG ? i dun see a /dev/ttyUSB0
1833666;1531355425;asciilifeform;this is problem; customer ordered FG.
1833667;1531355488;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: disregard earlier req to pull kvm & stick.
1833668;1531355500;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: and when you wake up, plox to check the connections.
1833669;1531355800;asciilifeform;aaaactually nm... 1s
1833670;1531355818;*;asciilifeform copies over /lib/modules/*
1833671;1531355906;mod6;that fix it?
1833672;1531355920;asciilifeform;oughta, 1s
1833673;1531355988;mod6;np, take your time.
1833674;1531356216;asciilifeform;ok worx !!
1833675;1531356254;mod6;:] nice work Sir!
1833676;1531356254;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: let's still hold on pulling kvm & stick until customer blesses the box.
1833677;1531356266;asciilifeform;mod6: when she does, plox to invoice diana_coman & co for subscription.
1833678;1531356297;mod6;my pleasure.
1833679;1531356375;mod6;one question that I was thinking about today... I know we've been over this a few times before... but did Pizarro ever put in a formal order for say, 100 more FGs?
1833680;1531356409;mod6;perhaps I just need to do some log searching.   feel free to tell me just to hit the logs.
1833681;1531356423;asciilifeform;mod6: there are not currently any moar FGs to be had .
1833682;1531356431;asciilifeform;aside from danielpbarron's
1833683;1531356463;mod6;right, but I had thought that perhaps s.nsa was gonna have smore baked, if there was a formal order for moarar.
1833684;1531356498;asciilifeform;mod6: there is a design for lyso crystal next-gen FG, but not yet baked.
1833685;1531356509;asciilifeform;( oughta be good for 1MB/s+ )
1833686;1531356525;asciilifeform;and, conceivably we might bake moar classic FG.
1833687;1531356553;asciilifeform;i'd really rather not, tho, they are extremely labour-intensive to test, on acct of the very modest speed of entropy generation.
1833688;1531356590;asciilifeform;i'd also like to be rid of xilinx sooner rather than later.
1833689;1531356609;mod6;sure.  1MB/s would be amazing considering we're currently running ~7k/s
1833690;1531356612;asciilifeform;aha.
1833691;1531356617;mod6;fair enough then.
1833692;1531356638;asciilifeform;currently pizarro has substantially moar FG than it has machines.
1833693;1531356662;mod6;I think we've got enough to get us by for the time being.  but if we do a rockchip order of 96 or whatever, then we're gonna be short by something like 60. (given each rc customer would take like 1 fg eac)
1833694;1531356671;asciilifeform;incidentally, BingoBoingo , ben_vulpes , what's the status of the usb2ttl cable crate ?
1833695;1531356679;asciilifeform;that was the bottleneck earlier
1833696;1531356751;asciilifeform;meanwhile i'ma take a bit of break, will check back 1ce moar before sleep.
1833697;1531356754;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1833698;1531356763;mod6;np, have a good night.
1833699;1531358238;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: sitting in customs with the ssds
1833700;1531358270;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> hey BingoBoingo , does this box have FG ? i dun see a /dev/ttyUSB0 << I installed 2
1833701;1531358279;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> ty for the arms- and leg-work BingoBoingo << No problem
1833702;1531369096;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833642 << I am racist against modulism, as long expressed and explicit in the script
1833703;1531369096;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 22:55 asciilifeform: trinque: lemme get this straight, your script does 0 with kernel modules ? expectation is that there ain't any ?
1833704;1531369152;trinque;seems upon the man building the kernel for allcomers to justify himself, as my kernels are narrower
1833705;1531369193;trinque;but aside that, pretty fucking cool you stood the thing up, as it was a scrape of my workbench into tarball and sig
1833706;1531369205;trinque;not bad for running to a flight hours later
1833707;1531369332;trinque;as for initramfs-ism, it has its place (i.e. embedded systems with peculiar root, squashfs + overlayfs or the like)
1833708;1531369419;trinque;other than that, I'd be curious why the hell the kernel wasn't capable of pulling an adult root up itself. usually this is because the kernel was again, built for allcomers, or more specifically for linux users afraid of configuring a kernel (present company excluded, of course). this ends.
1833709;1531369454;trinque;asciilifeform: looking forward to your feedback on the thing, which we'll work into a final product
1833710;1531369670;asciilifeform;trinque: i have no prob with your 'cemented' approach to kernel, it is Right Thing; mine simply not caught up yet ( december 2017 build )
1833711;1531369712;*;trinque has a kernel baking post coming soon, in response to PeterL
1833712;1531369718;asciilifeform;in the end there is no compelling reason to have modulism on box where iron dev aint happening.
1833713;1531369777;trinque;I do in fact have an initramfs tool also sitting on desk. portage makes it rather easy to blast ebuilds into an arbitrary chroot at install
1833714;1531369813;trinque;so, can install busybox this way, user hand-rolls a script (perhaps from template), and this is as much initramfs as anyone oughta need
1833715;1531369814;asciilifeform;1 very useful thing, that we dun have yet, would be a mechanism for unerringly pointing out deadcoad in a given running kernel.
1833716;1531369832;asciilifeform;i.e. 'this dun run, the pertinent iron aint there'
1833717;1531369842;trinque;some kind of gcov thing?
1833718;1531369867;asciilifeform;nah, simpler, would use existing mechanism that loads modules
1833719;1531369916;asciilifeform;say, builds modular kernel once, then lsmod, parse output, then builds cemented kernel with same parts.
1833720;1531369958;trinque;oh, this exists, and is going into my post
1833721;1531369962;trinque;make localyesconfig
1833722;1531369964;asciilifeform;neato.
1833723;1531369979;trinque;will take build machine's /proc/config.gz and cement
1833724;1531370000;asciilifeform;that could be anyffing tho
1833725;1531370012;asciilifeform;not necessarily strictly iron-bound minimum
1833726;1531370033;asciilifeform;what you want is strictly lsmod output, as basis
1833727;1531370080;trinque;err.. been a long day. it does respect what actually loaded
1833728;1531370085;asciilifeform;aite
1833729;1531370094;asciilifeform;i'ma bbl: bedtime
1833730;1531370100;asciilifeform;goodnight trinque
1833731;1531370102;trinque;thx for trying the item!
1833732;1531370103;trinque;cya
1833733;1531370105;asciilifeform;np
1833734;1531370917;mircea_popescu;incidentally... i can't fucking believe the 2010s failed to produce a pornstar named justine beaver.
1833735;1531387339;diana_coman;asciilifeform, re ssh key, pizarro already has mine, just use that one; re box: I've read through the logs and in the end I'm still confused as to *what* is in there now - is it musltronic system or not?
1833736;1531387438;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833586 <- need to practice this moar
1833737;1531387438;a111;Logged on 2018-07-11 22:08 hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833385 << diana_coman that's a good point; added a note on said post. and y'know, you can just tell me directly, "hey, this is dumb, do x".
1833738;1531394069;asciilifeform;diana_coman: entirely musltronic, made out of http://trinque.org/2018/07/06/cuntoo-bootstrapper-preview . i am preparing a summary of all changes just nao.
1833739;1531394095;diana_coman;cool, will wait for the summary + access then
1833740;1531394282;asciilifeform;trinque's gcc, btw, is exactly as was printed on the crate, x86_64-gentoo-linux-musl 4.9.4
1833741;1531394429;asciilifeform;the 1 non-trinquian component is the kernel, which is bitwise identical to what is on 1) dulap 2) the primary s.mg box. fortunately kernel carries own libc, musltronicity dun affect it. but the trinquian kernel src and my original config is still there, as well as my config for the iron; it is possible for diana_coman to later build the kernel with trinque's gcc, what is needed is to transform my config so that all necessary modules
1833742;1531394429;asciilifeform;are hardbaked into kernel. trinque as i understand is working on an automatic process for this.
1833743;1531394661;asciilifeform;hey trinque , is it safe to delete 'cuntoo' dir ( contains copy of distfiles, etc, could free ~1G ) or does it get used ?
1833744;1531395065;asciilifeform;1) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hIScm/?raw=true << make.conf ( originals and asciilifeform items marked )
1833745;1531395086;asciilifeform;2) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bxS2w/?raw=true << lilo.conf ( original preserved as lilo.trinque )
1833746;1531395137;asciilifeform;3) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7JDg0/?raw=true << install.sh that was actually used to build the whole orchestra;
1833747;1531395283;asciilifeform;(3) contains 2 mistakes by asciilifeform re partition map; ergo , i wrote a 4) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A94DS/?raw=true << install-corrected.sh << which reflects necessary changes to partition map ( and removes the console-via-rs232 that remained from trinque's orig experiment )
1833748;1531395368;asciilifeform;trinque's original also does something i consider ugly, it allows lilo to refer to disks/partitions by 'uuid' rather than device path, imho this should not be done ( it resembles poettering's warcrime against nic device names, and makes hand-tuning needlessly difficult )
1833749;1531395388;asciilifeform;( i dun blame trinque , afaik this is default lilo behaviour nowadays ) but i fixed.
1833750;1531395473;asciilifeform;5) nic config is in /etc/conf.d/net and /etc/resolv.conf , if diana_coman wants to change the former for any reason plz talk to pizarro folk 1st
1833751;1531395537;asciilifeform;6) i emerged 2 proggies, 'app-misc/mc' (midnight commander) and 'usbutils' , which i needed during debugging.
1833752;1531395549;asciilifeform;7) FG are operating at /dev/ttyUSB0 and /dev/ttyUSB1
1833753;1531395661;asciilifeform;8) the kernel trinque's system ended up building, is preserved in /boot/bk . it boots, but dun see nic or FG, on account of rejecting modulism
1833754;1531396048;asciilifeform;diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uISuj/?raw=true and plz to confirm.
1833755;1531396191;ave1;diana_coman, http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/07/10/some-branching-troubles-on-existing-v-trees/#comment-2031
1833756;1531396304;ave1;Some thought about the zero footprint / minimal runtime image.
1833757;1531396775;*;asciilifeform submitted comment re above, but i think filter ate it ?
1833758;1531396784;asciilifeform;diana_coman ^
1833759;1531396832;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it's on, you wrote it while I was writing mine and it got into the moderating queue
1833760;1531396928;diana_coman;ah, you usually use your name so it's first time it saw your nick, hence -> moderating
1833761;1531397074;asciilifeform;aa lol i forgot . diana_coman feel free to switch it.
1833762;1531397309;asciilifeform;answr'd.
1833763;1531397775;*;asciilifeform bbl,tea,waking up
1833764;1531401425;*;asciilifeform back
1833765;1531401450;asciilifeform;diana_coman: possibly i'm mistaken , will have to actually try the new vtool ( and whether it can be pressed with traditional vtron ) .
1833766;1531401564;asciilifeform;diana_coman: lemme know if box functions as expected. you will prolly want to install ave1's gnat . but even prior to this, can proceed with emerging eulora deps , and see which ones work under muslism .
1833767;1531401644;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in 1990s-style www , https://www.asktog.com/Bughouse/index.html
1833768;1531401678;diana_coman;asciilifeform, will do; atm I'm gathering all the stuff from the log; wouldn't it make more sense next time to just send it together with access stuff? I get it that some parts were of public interest too but they can be discussed anyway, with ref to a paste of the stuff if needed
1833769;1531401700;asciilifeform;diana_coman: remember, we are also helping trinque to perfect his cuntoo .
1833770;1531401701;diana_coman;re vtools fwiw I pressed it fine with traditional vtron
1833771;1531401704;asciilifeform;neato.
1833772;1531401737;diana_coman;yes, hence my "I get it that some parts were of public interest too but they can be discussed anyway, with ref to a paste of the stuff if needed "
1833773;1531401895;asciilifeform;diana_coman: aite. do not hesitate to ask, if the purpose of particular change , or anything else, is unclear.
1833774;1531401924;asciilifeform;i expect that trinque will find this thread to be of interest, when he comes back.
1833775;1531401938;asciilifeform;( afaik this is the first battlefield test of cuntoo. )
1833776;1531402072;asciilifeform;diana_coman: at the risk of pedantry -- all of the pasted items, other than (4) , exist on your box's disk , exactly as pasted.
1833777;1531402095;*;BingoBoingo waiting for a refrigerator to show up
1833778;1531402102;diana_coman;asciilifeform, ok
1833779;1531402133;BingoBoingo;Do my hands need to do anything to the box? Unplug things, etc?
1833780;1531402173;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: when diana_coman gives the signal that box is good to work, can remove kvm snakes and boot stick.
1833781;1531402270;*;asciilifeform looking forward to building some cuntoo boxen for own experiments.
1833782;1531402373;asciilifeform;hats off to trinque , pretty great item. ( as i understand , we will still need a troo tmsr tarballs mirror, and coupla other things. but it's a good start, 100% musltronic gentoo. )
1833783;1531402561;asciilifeform;1 of the things i'd like to do, supposing trinque hasn't yet already made it, is to replace the horrid gui-laden boot usb stick currently in pizarro bilge, with a cuntoo stick.
1833784;1531402600;asciilifeform;but possibly this oughta wait for trinque's return and for the remaining fine-tunings to cuntoo .
1833785;1531403096;asciilifeform;!!up brazilish
1833786;1531403097;deedbot;brazilish voiced for 30 minutes.
1833787;1531403100;asciilifeform;brazilish: who might you be ?
1833788;1531403108;brazilish;the usual brazilian guy
1833789;1531403116;asciilifeform;i wasn't aware that we had one ?
1833790;1531403134;asciilifeform;or, hm, nm, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-04#1831711
1833791;1531403134;a111;Logged on 2018-07-04 19:41 mircea_popescu: brazilish considering how much you're worth atm, it'll be good enough for now. can always switch it out later.
1833792;1531403387;diana_coman;asciilifeform, BingoBoingo access to box & config confirmed; FG on ttysUSB0 had a wobble at first and I don't understand why: I ran the stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 115200 raw -echo -echoe -echok and then tried dd iflag=fullblock if=/dev/ttyUSB0 | hexdump -C but nothing came up; then I ran the stty on usb1 as well and tried again and it...worked; any idea wtf was that at first?
1833793;1531403402;diana_coman;!!key brazilish
1833794;1531403402;deedbot;Not registered.
1833795;1531403413;diana_coman;nope, no such thing as usual brazilian guy
1833796;1531403428;diana_coman;brazilish, register a key if you want to be any sort of person around here
1833797;1531403464;asciilifeform;diana_coman: we'll have to ask BingoBoingo to open the lid and inspect the lights on both FG .
1833798;1531403480;asciilifeform;possibly he has miswired one .
1833799;1531403511;asciilifeform;or do i misread , and both now work ??
1833800;1531403518;diana_coman;yes, now they both work, hence my wtf
1833801;1531403536;asciilifeform;hmmmm
1833802;1531403620;asciilifeform;i have my box set to stty... both on boot, so i never observed this effect. possible quirk of the pl2302 driver. i recommend , as in any battlefield installation of FG, to carry out the s.nsa-recced tests.
1833803;1531403659;asciilifeform;*pl2303
1833804;1531403833;asciilifeform;i've operated up to 7 on 1 linux box simultaneously , without problems ( the linux usb tweak from section 2 of operating manual http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html is required if using 3 or greater )
1833805;1531403878;asciilifeform;( above 7, pl2303 driver starts doing something odd, the boxes still work but several times slower )
1833806;1531403901;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes, I will certainly carry out the tests ofc but this was what I observed atm
1833807;1531403908;asciilifeform;( btw if anybody discovers a viable replacement for the pl2303 snake that dun cost an arm and leg and dun include flashable chips, i'd like to hear about it )
1833808;1531403938;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ty for putting it in the log, i'd like to find the answer to the riddle.
1833809;1531404409;BingoBoingo;On this box one of the FG cables is the blue guy that came with my personal FG, the other is the new style black snake
1833810;1531404441;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: interesting. these are both chinese pl2303 , nominally identical.
1833811;1531404491;asciilifeform;( granted, nobody actually knows, these folx are fold of printing identical legend and keeping same vendor:usbid while fiddling something or other )
1833812;1531406507;mod6;mornin'
1833813;1531406532;asciilifeform;ohai mod6
1833814;1531407156;BingoBoingo;Anyone care to guess what refrigerant is coursing through the new Panavox 100 liter fridge Carlos Gutiarrez just dropped off?
1833815;1531407215;asciilifeform;ye olde classic freon ?!
1833816;1531407253;asciilifeform;i.e. 'r-12' ??
1833817;1531407261;BingoBoingo;Nope
1833818;1531407279;BingoBoingo;Isobutane, R600a
1833819;1531407283;asciilifeform;ahahahahaha
1833820;1531407285;asciilifeform;srsly?!
1833821;1531407291;BingoBoingo;Gotta love concrete building culture
1833822;1531407299;mod6;nice
1833823;1531407445;asciilifeform;nuts.
1833824;1531407563;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833748 << this I did to allow building the system as a USB-attached external drive, which could later be plugged in as primary hd and still boot. recall I started my gentoo experiments with "infectious gentoo" as a target
1833825;1531407563;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 11:36 asciilifeform: trinque's original also does something i consider ugly, it allows lilo to refer to disks/partitions by 'uuid' rather than device path, imho this should not be done ( it resembles poettering's warcrime against nic device names, and makes hand-tuning needlessly difficult )
1833826;1531407607;asciilifeform;aaah hah.
1833827;1531407610;asciilifeform;interesting
1833828;1531407625;asciilifeform;really oughta be toggleable imho.
1833829;1531407652;mod6;^ that'd be cool, then can have both ways
1833830;1531407685;trinque;this and the number of cpus, and perhaps others as args, yes
1833831;1531407784;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833743 << that dir is the infection vector, and builds packages so infection can be swift. packages can be deleted, and perhaps distfiles too if the user is going to keep them elsewhere (i.e. off box)
1833832;1531407784;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 11:24 asciilifeform: hey trinque , is it safe to delete 'cuntoo' dir ( contains copy of distfiles, etc, could free ~1G ) or does it get used ?
1833833;1531407798;asciilifeform;trinque: i suspected , so i left it alone.
1833834;1531407813;asciilifeform;diana_coman can delete if she needs the ~1GB .
1833835;1531407830;asciilifeform;however must note that it contains install.sh with asciilifeform's mistakes ( see log ) .
1833836;1531407854;asciilifeform;i left it as-is, in the interest of authenticity.
1833837;1531407913;trinque;/cuntoo dir is what I continue to work on. vtronic portage will sit in there. when released, diana_coman can replace the whole /cuntoo dir with the final item
1833838;1531407976;trinque;back on the bin-packages, these become much more interesting with a reproducible-build gcc. I understand ave1's to be very close, if not there already
1833839;1531408083;trinque;(there are probably fixes also needed to the binpkg system, such that i.e. timestamps of the build are not in there, ruining bit-identity)
1833840;1531408240;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833782 << mirror needed indeed. I have a pizarro box racked with giant platters for this
1833841;1531408240;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 13:32 asciilifeform: hats off to trinque , pretty great item. ( as i understand , we will still need a troo tmsr tarballs mirror, and coupla other things. but it's a good start, 100% musltronic gentoo. )
1833842;1531408253;asciilifeform;neato.
1833843;1531408254;trinque;will need others, can't have too many
1833844;1531408286;asciilifeform;ideally most , or all, public-facing cuntoo boxen, will offer mirror.
1833845;1531408440;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833783 << indeed, and users ought to be able to build own, so we've got a clear chain of custody going straight back into classical gentoo
1833846;1531408440;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 13:36 asciilifeform: 1 of the things i'd like to do, supposing trinque hasn't yet already made it, is to replace the horrid gui-laden boot usb stick currently in pizarro bilge, with a cuntoo stick.
1833847;1531408456;trinque;build here meaning run the script, not hand-roll
1833848;1531408469;trinque;ave1: how far away is bit-identical build in your gcc?
1833849;1531409569;asciilifeform;trinque: i was thinking, lilo oughta be able to be cured , to know what the hell it booted from on a given boot, and mount root there
1833850;1531409589;asciilifeform;bios bootsector loader certainly gives this info
1833851;1531409604;asciilifeform;the uuid thing would not be needed then.
1833852;1531409656;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833708 << does indeed smell a lot of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793764 ubuntu-nation-of-africa.
1833853;1531409656;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 04:23 trinque: other than that, I'd be curious why the hell the kernel wasn't capable of pulling an adult root up itself. usually this is because the kernel was again, built for allcomers, or more specifically for linux users afraid of configuring a kernel (present company excluded, of course). this ends.
1833854;1531409656;a111;Logged on 2018-04-06 21:27 asciilifeform: but in that case it can be debated whether he is still using 'the same machine' as he bought, or a 'new', africanized one
1833855;1531409761;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: asciilifeform's old kernel consists of hand-selected modules, corresponding to dulap-III irons, config can be seen here, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/conf_current.conf
1833856;1531409775;mircea_popescu;(anyone ever looked into the deep piles of pantsuiticy surrounding that btw ? not just "Ubuntu - The leading operating system for PCs, IoT devices ..." on precisely 0% market share, but rather "Ubuntu philosophy - Wikipedia
1833857;1531409775;mircea_popescu;Ubuntu (Zulu pronunciation: [ùɓúntʼù]) is a Nguni Bantu term meaning "humanity". It is often translated as "I am because we are," and also "humanity towards others", but is often used in a more philosophical sense to mean "the belief in a universal bond of sharing that connects all humanity".")
1833858;1531409799;asciilifeform;and yes it will need to be trinqueized.
1833859;1531409819;asciilifeform;lol zulu! i had nfi
1833860;1531409840;asciilifeform;orig zulu had healthier expression of this 'shared', imho, with pointy sticks.
1833861;1531409841;mircea_popescu;as fucking if a) africans and philosophy can be used in same sentence ; b) "translated as" is not a dead fucking giveaway of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1542003 -style cultural appropriation and on and on.
1833862;1531409841;a111;Logged on 2016-09-14 19:35 phf: madam blavatski and her followers did a lot of damage for years to come. it was literally in her writing that original meaning doesn't matter, as long as the translation sounds cool (there's a rationalization for why that somehow supposed to make sense)
1833863;1531409867;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah, but these are the replacement zulu, hallucinated by autistic white boys to porn up the girl next door in their own imagination.
1833864;1531409900;asciilifeform;i suppose they live next to the replacement indians & co.
1833865;1531409913;mircea_popescu;original zulu were more in the vein of "machine gun ?! http://btcbase.org/log/2013-11-04#368213
1833866;1531409913;a111;Logged on 2013-11-04 16:22 asciilifeform: to which the general replied - 'it wouldn't dare.'
1833867;1531409960;asciilifeform;relatedly, asciilifeform not long ago went to a museum, which, among other items, had... spears, and halbergs (!) from u.s. civil war.
1833868;1531409963;asciilifeform;both sides -- used.
1833869;1531409985;asciilifeform;( in the initial revv-up to the war, there were not enuff rifles to go around )
1833870;1531409995;mircea_popescu;speaking of nothing in particular : anyone notice how four years ago we did a lot of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1808705 issue ? all of us, me, alf, name it.
1833871;1531409995;a111;Logged on 2018-05-04 03:18 mircea_popescu: you know, you can write your whole thought in a single line, we do actually read long lines. no reason to break up your stuff.
1833872;1531410021;mircea_popescu;apparently sanity is a ~behaviour~, dependent in actual expression upon the a) presence and b) understandment of proper, sanity-inducing tools.
1833873;1531410109;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform halberds you mean ? that's a particularly satisfying item to use. dunno if you ever held one, but it's a mainstay for purely meritous reasons. best weapon to stand guard with, for instance, it's satisfying in the way of warm tea.
1833874;1531410133;asciilifeform;yes and yes.
1833875;1531410184;asciilifeform;and satisfying to look at, even, asciilifeform never passes up a chance to visit a museum along the way that displays'em.
1833876;1531410229;asciilifeform;one time saw array of landsknecht gear in chicago , was impressed.
1833877;1531410260;mircea_popescu;that said, it was never very practical, not even in its heyday.
1833878;1531410277;asciilifeform;dunno, the jp variant reportedly vehehery practical.
1833879;1531410288;mircea_popescu;the only actual field aplication where it was state of art was disposing of armored folk fallen off horse.
1833880;1531410291;mircea_popescu;somewhat of a narrow use.
1833881;1531410301;asciilifeform;of horse ( at least in jp variant ) also.
1833882;1531410326;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform jp item not halberd variant. jp item ~falx~ variant, as in the dacian weapon. very practical according to romans, either, feared the future romanians like no one else.
1833883;1531410345;asciilifeform;'naginata'
1833884;1531410369;asciilifeform;i thought roman falx were a shorter thing
1833885;1531410403;mircea_popescu;they adapted the falx for a siege weapon, but the original thing deployed against them / used by the dacians was a 2-3 m pole with a 30-60 cm blade cutting inside.
1833886;1531410417;asciilifeform;ah hah so ~exactly same.
1833887;1531410461;mircea_popescu;yup.
1833888;1531410488;mircea_popescu;got under shields, was reportedly terrifying.
1833889;1531410518;mircea_popescu;aand in today's dose of manilla humour, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bEMvL/?raw=true
1833890;1531410541;mircea_popescu;as you might expect, chick's way fat, way older than she claims, and cutting pics in the way of the catfisher.
1833891;1531410555;asciilifeform;wat's a catfisher ?
1833892;1531410586;mircea_popescu;a catfisher is a fat woman that tries to manipulate the camera angle and crop tools in post-edit to seem less fat.
1833893;1531410595;mircea_popescu;but by extension, anyone who tries to lie visually online.
1833894;1531410613;asciilifeform;i guessed this much; but what's the 2nd step in their algo? say you fly'em in, then what.
1833895;1531410617;mircea_popescu;something to do with the habit of catfish to bury in mud.
1833896;1531410630;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you know what a long con is ?
1833897;1531410646;asciilifeform;sure. but i only know about the kind with money.
1833898;1531410658;mircea_popescu;tell me, and underline the distinction from short con.
1833899;1531410685;asciilifeform;y'know, the 'grifter', who befriends old pensioner crone and gets her to sign over her will etc
1833900;1531410698;mircea_popescu;your notions are poorly organized on the topic!
1833901;1531410703;asciilifeform;possibly
1833902;1531410732;mircea_popescu;a long con misdirects the victim towards a specific point ; a short con misdirects the victim without a specific point.
1833903;1531410743;mircea_popescu;this is what drives the length difference : unspecific can't last.
1833904;1531410769;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> a catfisher is a fat woman that tries to manipulate the camera angle and crop tools in post-edit to seem less fat. << That's a fatfisher one step more offensive than mere catfishing
1833905;1531410784;mircea_popescu;now, much in the vein of http://trilema.com/2013/a-deal-can-be-anything/ ; any interaction can be moved towards a long con. you simply take whatever the op says they want to happen, and use that as the misidrection point.
1833906;1531410794;mircea_popescu;ie, she's going to try and get money ~before~ the flying in.
1833907;1531410801;asciilifeform;aaah
1833908;1531410804;asciilifeform;makes sense.
1833909;1531410811;asciilifeform;a la nigeria.
1833910;1531410821;mircea_popescu;quite. those are "shortish longcons", basically.
1833911;1531410834;mircea_popescu;long con open tender, because what's online for. ubuntu amirite.
1833912;1531410849;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo oh ?
1833913;1531411019;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: It's an entire field. The hamplanets trying to appear as human sized is just one flavor.
1833914;1531411065;mircea_popescu;pretty sure when originally introduced the striking aspect of the woman was this orca-like quality ustardian females get, where the head seems fused to the neck and the mouth promises to open wide enough to take in a live veal.
1833915;1531411079;mircea_popescu;but... yeah irc was also unemployed and otherwise dependopotamus item.
1833916;1531411128;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'mcfat', 'corn-fed', goes by various names.
1833917;1531411165;mircea_popescu;amusingly, apparently it also goes by the "i don't like anything about you!!!" name.
1833918;1531411204;asciilifeform;some folx never vex themselves with the q, evidently, of what's to like.
1833919;1531411565;mircea_popescu;kinda reminds me of the http://trilema.com/2010/aventurile-zilei/#selection-49.0-49.1103 "expert"
1833920;1531411599;mircea_popescu;ie, the female worldview : a) isn't she the goddess-ordained womb ? b) don't i need kids ? therefore c) i'd better give her all the moneys she says, what.
1833921;1531411648;mircea_popescu;i suppose not even such a bad tactial approach, for the stupid bulk of womanhood. hence why the whole http://trilema.com/2014/hey-stupid-women-we-need-to-talk-smart-women-dont-want-to-be-with-you-anymore/
1833922;1531411681;mircea_popescu;yes it's true that 100% of females being fertile, and indeed the species either reproduces or ends, it then follows that they could "organize" in the way of "labour organizing" and "demand" things.
1833923;1531411691;asciilifeform;kids, rationed sex on special holidays, picket fence, etc, lol
1833924;1531411703;mircea_popescu;the only problem is that the minority of women for whom their intellectual value exceeds their reproductive value, this collective bargaining is a miserable life
1833925;1531411746;mircea_popescu;and for the rest... the http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ beds, seriously.
1833926;1531411788;mircea_popescu;there's no need to even dress them. cows live in shit up to their udders on an antibiotic diet, that's where the overton window is, in this negotiation.
1833927;1531411914;mircea_popescu;(amusingly enough, folks get all aggitated about "social security queens" etc, dun quite grasp that what's happening is quite exactly "son, $600 a head is the best i could manage to keep the cunt churning. you can do it cheaper, go right ahead, i didn't want to use barned wire.")
1833928;1531411936;mircea_popescu;barbed*
1833929;1531412628;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this "give all the moneys" has been a particularly impacted bit of cuntfic for many years, btw. you know what the "dead master" (very much in the vein of http://trilema.com/2018/cu-cartile-pe-masa-un-fleac-l-au-ciuruit/ ) that they all crowd around in http://trilema.com/2014/the-private-lives-of-pippa-lee-or-what-happens-to-the-old-whore/ (monica belucci's suicidal character, and nobody-robin penn's utterly dedi
1833930;1531412629;mircea_popescu;cated floor washer, and some others) says, at the peak ? "i want you to have all the money". what's rose say in http://trilema.com/2015/the-war-of-the-roses/ ? yep, that's right, "you should have all the money". originally started as a blacksploitation item (and here's our tie-in with "ubuntu, the african philosophy") -- what's willie dynamite say (to the fat, middle-aged "social worker", no less) ? "i want you to have all th
1833931;1531412629;mircea_popescu;e money!".
1833932;1531412665;asciilifeform;the part that remains unclear, is for what exactly does a cow need money.
1833933;1531412675;mircea_popescu;the driver, in that later case, is transparently oedipian, "just make everything like it was before". (literally, he says this). and i suspect that's why this thing even exists -- one superlative realisation of the autistic boy's refusal of the world is re-entrance into the mother's cunt.
1833934;1531412681;mircea_popescu;perhaps if "he gives her all the money" this could occur ?
1833935;1531412696;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is why you know and how you know she didn't come up with it.
1833936;1531412717;mircea_popescu;it's entirely ~male~ fantasy. give the queen the kingdom, maybe that way the messengers will stop streaming towards your location ?
1833937;1531412734;mircea_popescu;"what the fuck is a queen to do with a kingdom" is not contemplated here.
1833938;1531412744;mircea_popescu;but obviously, she'll either end it or turn it into a queendom, what the fuck CAN she do.
1833939;1531412746;asciilifeform;did we ever do 'carlists in spain' thread btw ?
1833940;1531412753;mircea_popescu;pluriously iirc.
1833941;1531412773;asciilifeform;!#s carlism
1833942;1531412773;a111;0 results for "carlism", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=carlism
1833943;1531412777;asciilifeform;!#s carlist
1833944;1531412777;a111;1 result for "carlist", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=carlist
1833945;1531412780;asciilifeform;hm.
1833946;1531412792;mircea_popescu;willie dynamite is a great 70s flick btw. 100% of all "romantic comedies" acting and actors packed in one dude there/
1833947;1531412807;mircea_popescu;he contorts that ugly nigger face like it's propelling space ships.
1833948;1531414228;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/remains-of-gawker-media-back-on-the-sales-block/ << Qntra - Remains Of Gawker Media Back On The Sales Block
1833949;1531414516;mircea_popescu;you know, it's the height of unfairness that items like gawker have to be ~sold~.
1833950;1531414534;mircea_popescu;really, the civil code should be upgraded to include ~divorce~ for female companies.
1833951;1531414549;mircea_popescu;they get the shareholder's house and "all the money" and move on to a new "cheif executive officer" set.
1833952;1531415011;BingoBoingo;lol
1833953;1531416551;asciilifeform;oblig naggum : http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-08#948530
1833954;1531416551;a111;Logged on 2014-12-08 19:04 asciilifeform: 'companies that go bankrupt are a danger to healthy competition. They are able to make their creditors and shareholders pay for their losses and bad management and then to start anew with assets that they essentially got for free, quite unlike the competition that has not gone bankrupt, who have to pay full price for their assets, but quite similar to how their customers have wanted their products, for too little money.'
1833955;1531417067;mircea_popescu;anythign but life imprisonment for default on debts is rank nonsense.
1833956;1531417096;asciilifeform;organ sale.
1833957;1531417106;mircea_popescu;note how it was also the law of the land, even as late as 60s.
1833958;1531417113;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nah.
1833959;1531417125;asciilifeform;iirc in usa mostly went out in 1860s.
1833960;1531417166;mircea_popescu;nah, as late as 1960 it meant "end of life" in that you became a nigger and had to sell ("voluntarily", heh) your suburban home
1833961;1531417175;asciilifeform;ah this they still have
1833962;1531417202;asciilifeform;( at least if usg is the creditor )
1833963;1531417213;mircea_popescu;right.
1833964;1531417236;mircea_popescu;then and only then, and so on. the wonders of the police state rediscovered anew for each new crop of idiots.
1833965;1531417320;asciilifeform;in modern usa, confiscation is iffy punishment given how most zeks dun actually own anything but own shirt ( and even it bought on cc )
1833966;1531417406;asciilifeform;there aint even uranium mines ( and would be of questionable ev considering how guards reportedly expect 100k+ in pay )
1833967;1531417485;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1833968;1531417498;asciilifeform;there won't be demonstrative impalement of folx who lend to the uncreditworthy, because at this point the latter includes ~whole of anglostani empire
1833969;1531417567;mircea_popescu;rather the problem is that you can't have "progress" and responsible credit. gotta pick one.
1833970;1531417584;asciilifeform;iirc there was a mircea_popescu essay re another orcistan, greece, where 'greece : i am a toilet, what did you expect when you put money into a toilet'
1833971;1531417587;mircea_popescu;"progress" renders all evaluation meaningless as a prerequisite.
1833972;1531417667;*;asciilifeform admits that it remains unclear to him whether a thing 'responsible credit' is even possible. perhaps the mohammedans have the right idea re credit.
1833973;1531417743;mircea_popescu;well, you'd have to evaluate things. that's the fundamental dispute here. on one hand, the pantsuit, "ourdemocracy", whatever, "progressivists" how oyu'd call them (they'd preferred to be called "modern man", with an implicit hint that the modern part is spurious and they've always been all there ever was etc), which holds a strict "nothing can be meaningful, like, ever" stance.
1833974;1531417772;mircea_popescu;on the other, the republic, attempting something rather in the vein of "the life among the meaningless is not worth living, so whether meaning-izing works or doesn't, it'll be done."
1833975;1531417803;phf;asciilifeform: i think the alexander dumas notion of responsible credit is a reasonable thing, i.e. borrow from a handful of reasonably informed wealthy people from your town, deliver return on credit, otherwise "i'm ruined, going to hang myself, daughter to be weed to one of the creditors" etc.
1833976;1531417806;mircea_popescu;but the deep fundamental issue that greenspun ran into and bewails in http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/arsdigita-greenspun.html is exactly this : postmodernity is predicated on meaninglessness.
1833977;1531417867;mircea_popescu;phf this sounds great, and works fine for as long as you stick to pulp fiction (this ~particular~ narrowness of viewport is why dumas never counted as an important writer). try and step outside of the threemusketeering and see if it can still be meaningfully applied.
1833978;1531417887;asciilifeform;montecristoing but yes
1833979;1531418003;phf;asciilifeform: i believe it was a reference to earlier mention of three musketeers as a source of useful knowledge, rather than any particular plot element. at least i meant dumas as generally high adventure
1833980;1531418005;mircea_popescu;let's set out the dilemma properly, for future readers. 1. if the creditor is not an agent, then why would he get anything ? i mean beyond the usg-istic / southparkian "aaaannd... it's gone" ? and 2. if the creditor is an agent, then why does the borrower carry all the responsibility ?
1833981;1531418030;mircea_popescu;just how much of an agent to make the principal in the principal-agent relationship is the problem. because obviously if the principal were an actual agent there'd be no agents.
1833982;1531418104;mircea_popescu;and to bring it home, if anyone hanged every time something blew up unexpectedly i'd be sitting here in an otherwise empty #trilema-gallows bemoanign my sad fate.
1833983;1531418222;asciilifeform;superficially it seems possible to cut apart 'i'ma build fleet of merchant ships and sail to venice' from konsoomer-credit . but i suspect there's a nonremovable 'exam taking' component.
1833984;1531418334;asciilifeform;iirc it was mircea_popescu in an earlier thread who had analogy where 'lines of code are like ammunition issued to cannoneer , to spend with his best effort' or how did it go
1833985;1531418367;mircea_popescu;consider the matter properly : so girl has put capers! in pot of coffee. because can't tell the difference between cardamom or capers, or because too tired, or mischevious, or fucked in the head or you call it, whatever. here's now a nice old style pot (anyone besides me sill use these, btw ? the tronconic items ?) with over a liter of capercoffee made out of SEVEN heaped spoonfulls of the world's best coffee, irreproducible
1833986;1531418367;mircea_popescu;outside of this country.
1833987;1531418369;mircea_popescu;what now ?
1833988;1531418390;asciilifeform;it is rather analogous to venice-credit, the cannoneer is spending the resource of another, and is at the mercy of 'creditor', who can decide to hang'im as traitor -- or not -- if the attack fails
1833989;1531418403;mircea_popescu;but do you recall the case of the misfortunate doria charge ?
1833990;1531418429;asciilifeform;there's a ~bottomless pile of these
1833991;1531418434;mircea_popescu;french cut down mercenary crossbowmen for the fault of having not provided them with dry storage for the tension element ?
1833992;1531418443;mircea_popescu;right.
1833993;1531418489;mircea_popescu;if people do anything, it's storytelling. what happened ? and so on.
1833994;1531418551;asciilifeform;seems to me that modern mechanistic focus on the debt, rather than the ~debtor~, is intrinsic Wrong Thing
1833995;1531418556;mircea_popescu;quite.
1833996;1531418599;mircea_popescu;hence all the nonsense that has, and will, blow up in their faces. "debt tranching, allowing you to remove the debtor entirely from consideration !!! " "does this actually work ?" "our gauss copula indicates that it definitely will work for as long as it does!"
1833997;1531418699;asciilifeform;supposedly, bulk of 'went bankrupt' in usa is simply where d00d spent a day or 3 in hospital.
1833998;1531418712;asciilifeform;rather than 'maxed cc and spent on whiskey'
1833999;1531418725;mircea_popescu;nah, the thing that sunk the last remnant of "america" in the 2000s was the "adjustable interest".
1834000;1531418762;mircea_popescu;the notion that you can fleece the sheep according to how much wool you "need" (calculated through a complicated abstraction designed to hide the arbitrarity, of course).
1834001;1531418767;asciilifeform;was speaking of what sinks the remaining floating rafts.
1834002;1531418778;mircea_popescu;just because "london sunk" doesn't mean 1mn black tards can now pay an extra twenty each.
1834003;1531419156;asciilifeform;in asciilifeform's eyes, the entire abstraction of creditor-debtor is misconceived.
1834004;1531419186;asciilifeform;the relationship b/w cannoneer and commander -- potentially functional. between debtor and creditor ? i suspect not
1834005;1531419249;asciilifeform;and good chunk of 'demoocracy' and 'progress' consists of the inevitable debtors ganging up to nail creditors.
1834006;1531419498;mircea_popescu;yes, but... "There isn't, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active. "
1834007;1531419569;asciilifeform;aha!
1834008;1531419595;asciilifeform;my pov is ~not~ 'ohnoez, poor debtors'
1834009;1531419610;mircea_popescu;why should inept creditors have anything ? money doesn't belong with old farts anymore than it belongs with disused wives, it's just not how money works.
1834010;1531419662;asciilifeform;verily
1834011;1531419670;mircea_popescu;since we're doing classics, consider eugenie grandet, and all the piles balzac especially wrote about control transfer in belle epoque france.
1834012;1531419680;mircea_popescu;old dood "owns" things ? really ?
1834013;1531419705;mircea_popescu;he will let go, by self "will" or "wise" words or baseball bat.
1834014;1531419743;asciilifeform;current situation is suboptimal for all sides -- focus on individual debts, rather than the actual and dire problem of distinguishing men from vermin, leads to where some men nailed at ~random, while vermin win reprieve after reprieve (typically by 'demoocracying' as a blok )
1834015;1531419781;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833232
1834016;1531419781;a111;Logged on 2018-07-10 18:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much, technology sufficiently primitive is indistinguishable from lottery
1834017;1531419807;asciilifeform;it's more or less exactly monsanto-style agriculture, and other blunt tools of 'modern civilizations'
1834018;1531419858;mircea_popescu;the fundamental problem, however, is that you absolutely need a structure of authority to "distinguish men from vermin". and the whole http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/ is all about hwo the autistic boys don't understand who daddy is.
1834019;1531419864;mircea_popescu;and why is he "hurting" mommy.
1834020;1531419904;mircea_popescu;pro tip : to pubescent eyes, sexual congress readily translates to "daddy beating up mommy", as a factual matter. and to similarily infantile minds, what i do to my slavegirls is you know, "abuse" or however they put it.
1834021;1531419906;asciilifeform;what would it even mean to ask the q, outside of structure.
1834022;1531419961;mircea_popescu;yes, but if there's structure there can't be equality. and if there can't be equality, it then follows that ~not everyone could be anything they wanted to~. that could is currently underpinning the whole world economy, as the jesus nut of it all.
1834023;1531419985;mircea_popescu;the whole "hundred trillions" in derivatives, and everything else, hang from this "could".
1834024;1531420002;asciilifeform;i dun think there are, outside of inpatient nut houses, many folx who actually buy the 'erryone can have errything' item
1834025;1531420012;mircea_popescu;not can. could.
1834026;1531420018;asciilifeform;even could.
1834027;1531420026;mircea_popescu;and yes, there are. everyone buys it, as the necessary prerequisite of being "in".
1834028;1531420058;asciilifeform;i suspect it is, like 1980s su 'communism'(tm)(r), a state religion, ~nobody actually buys in, errybody makes the token genuflections.
1834029;1531420075;mircea_popescu;the proof is in the pudding : if one doesn't believe that could, one couldn't possibly find himself in north america. because... COULD NOT.
1834030;1531420099;mircea_popescu;to be there you gotta believe you could be there, and there we go.
1834031;1531420187;asciilifeform;most of the folx in north a have already mentally relocated to 18th c ru, of sorts. i've not met so many folx dumb enuff to actually believe that they will, e.g., one day own (properly speaking) house, or own carcass for that matter
1834032;1531420212;mircea_popescu;this could business... it cuts quite a far swathe. 1518 dairy ~couldn't~ believe she could sit on duchess couch, take duke cock. COULD NOT. doesn't fit in there, like with ducks. in the immortal words of a certain mammie, "it ain't fittin', it just ain't fittin'".
1834033;1531420227;asciilifeform;( typical specimen on the street , victim of ameri-schooling, naturally does not know what is a serf, word says nothing to him. but if you explain it, he'll nod, 'yes that's me' )
1834034;1531420263;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ok, but interchangeable parts... this transistor ~COULD~ be part of that radio, OR of this one ?
1834035;1531420282;mircea_popescu;mary jane ~could~ marry jack ~or~ harry ?
1834036;1531420315;asciilifeform;again , outside of the open-air mental asylum of liberast www etc , not so many folx actually believe that 'hey i COULD be gold medalist runner' or the like
1834037;1531420322;asciilifeform;there is awareness of 'not-coulds'.
1834038;1531420325;mircea_popescu;i doubt this very much.
1834039;1531420336;mircea_popescu;having met my fair share of "could be singers" mothers of girls.
1834040;1531420392;asciilifeform;mothers are in their own weight class of risk category for this disease.
1834041;1531420401;asciilifeform;( goes with territory, neh )
1834042;1531420443;mircea_popescu;because why ? because you'll just make up classes to explain it away as need be ?
1834043;1531420456;mircea_popescu;everyone believes all coulds all the time. proof to the contrary is dismissed under some pretext or other.
1834044;1531420494;asciilifeform;let's suppose mircea_popescu has it , and 'they all believe' . how the hell do they show up to the 9-to-5 cube then.
1834045;1531420508;mircea_popescu;if man will do anything, man will tell stories.
1834046;1531420513;mircea_popescu;they're only there ironically, don't you know ?
1834047;1531420530;mircea_popescu;they're not what they are, in the sense of, history. they are what they could be. see ?
1834048;1531420723;asciilifeform;i dun dispute that they could believe. but the hypothesis dun strike me as a necessary one.
1834049;1531420756;mircea_popescu;in the end the problem is this : "modern democracy" ran into the same problem all societies ever ran into : explaining to men why they should bother fathering. the traditional manner was, "you must have an heir, to keep on your traditions stepping on serf faces", and unacceptable.
1834050;1531420792;mircea_popescu;so modern democracy came up with "kids are SO VERY VALUABLE!!!" it's worth having some. and then took it to heart, hence all the "college debt" mess of financial misdirection, and all the "you can do anyuthing" mess of intellectual misdirection.
1834051;1531420835;mircea_popescu;it's not much of a solution, to wit it doesn't even concinve anyone, but at least it doesn't include serfs' faces and boots and mud.
1834052;1531420861;asciilifeform;dunno that the official spiel has any connection, however tenuous, to reality. you've witnessed the products of ameri-schooling. do said schools strike you as an item produced by folx who 'believe kidz valuable' ?
1834053;1531420885;mircea_popescu;in so many words, yes.
1834054;1531420909;mircea_popescu;and the wives, too, strike me as the products of people who think women valuable.
1834055;1531420944;mircea_popescu;first thing, you know, slavegirl comes across is this plain "you're entirely fucking worthless". pons asinorum, as it were.
1834056;1531420981;asciilifeform;recall frederick's 'soldier is guilty of merely existing! what he has or hasn't done, is a distant secondary' or how did it go
1834057;1531421008;mircea_popescu;original sin!
1834058;1531421013;mircea_popescu;anyway, i shall beach. laters!
1834059;1531421018;asciilifeform;laters.
1834060;1531421378;mod6;have fun
1834061;1531435214;ben_vulpes;https://eslint.org/blog/2018/07/postmortem-for-malicious-package-publishes << the entertaining part is how much work they put into disguising Kevin Partington's role as "the maintainer"
1834062;1531435342;ben_vulpes;or, you know, whichever other ambulatory meat wad failed even basic imperial sekyoority protocol
1834063;1531436354;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: 'The pluggable linting utility for JavaScript and JSX' ?!
1834064;1531436371;asciilifeform;wat even.
1834065;1531436428;ben_vulpes;sticky note over the "please shoot me in the face" triggers of shitstack
1834066;1531438025;asciilifeform;in other lulz , https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/ccd << amstan et al publish their Official usg debug snake . ( holyfuq, wai so complicated, mine is 2 resistors lol )
1834067;1531438180;asciilifeform;https://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-rockchip/2018-07-12#22572942; << thread, for givers of shits
1834068;1531439526;asciilifeform;gotta love usg.opensores. 'buy this thing, with which you can do ~0 but admire the might of the great inca!'
1834069;1531448620;mircea_popescu;im trying to remember wtf "linting" even is supposed to be.
1834070;1531448668;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in abominably rubbishy toolchains, the practice of 'doing the checks the compiler oughta have but author was dropped as a baby and so it doesn't', roughly.
1834071;1531448707;asciilifeform;( iirc orig 'lint' came with k&r's c compiler )
1834072;1531448724;asciilifeform;or , some later ver of same.
1834073;1531448737;mircea_popescu;i see.
1834074;1531448746;mircea_popescu;i guess i just don't program enough.
1834075;1531448811;asciilifeform;such joys, he's missing!11111
1834076;1531448815;mircea_popescu;oh i see, need something to warn about missing license headers. now it all makes sense.
1834077;1531448819;mircea_popescu;bitcoloring tool!
1834078;1531448823;asciilifeform;misgenderings!
1834079;1531448829;asciilifeform;misspeciesings!
1834080;1531448837;mircea_popescu;even wider array of things|!!!
1834081;1531473088;ave1;trinque, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833848, working on it but this is going slowly (so not very soon)
1834082;1531473088;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 15:14 trinque: ave1: how far away is bit-identical build in your gcc?
1834083;1531473289;ave1;btw the most recent version will only build static executables! so no support for shared anything. Does the musl / gentoo overlay depend on shared libs? (Python usually builds statically and depends for installable modules on it, etc.)
1834084;1531490754;mod6;mornin'
1834085;1531490993;BingoBoingo;Mornin
1834086;1531491331;mod6;How goes today?
1834087;1531491652;shinohai;gm mod6, BingoBoingo .... #trilema at large
1834088;1531491756;mod6;hey shinohai, how's it goin?
1834089;1531491757;asciilifeform;ohai shinohai !
1834090;1531491764;asciilifeform;shinohai: wb
1834091;1531491779;asciilifeform;shinohai: i've been enjoying your www
1834092;1531492035;shinohai;ah ty asciilifeform ... been busy with irl stuffs but hope to resume shortly.
1834093;1531492043;shinohai;goes well mod6 and u?
1834094;1531492081;shinohai;im following the rockchip stuff and been meaning to put my logbot in there
1834095;1531492099;asciilifeform;shinohai: issued 1st cuntoo box to pizarro customer the other day ( see l0gz )
1834096;1531492127;asciilifeform;shinohai: otherwise pretty busy, currently with ffa reignition
1834097;1531492150;shinohai;read that this morning with coffee, nice worx
1834098;1531492200;shinohai;i almost got one of trinques cuntoo's to build for mips64 to run on erl xD
1834099;1531492229;asciilifeform;shinohai: almost ? what was the obstacle ?
1834100;1531492324;mod6;<+shinohai> goes well mod6 and u? << oh not bad, busy asf.
1834101;1531492325;shinohai;my obstacle is that erl has trouble reading some usb drives, gotta get another sandisk
1834102;1531492380;asciilifeform;shinohai: iirc it has a very modest max current, you need a small/slow drive, like the vendor's original
1834103;1531492398;shinohai;but it is tucked in neat beside the pogoplug, still chugging along and rsyncing blocks
1834104;1531492414;shinohai;the vendor original is shite ... literally
1834105;1531492432;asciilifeform;it is, but worx for so long as you dun write to it, lol
1834106;1531492458;shinohai;well of course lel
1834107;1531492497;shinohai;but still a neat box all in all for things like fw on cheap
1834108;1531492536;asciilifeform;shinohai: mine's been running ye olde freebsd, for 3yrs nao, 24/7
1834109;1531492573;shinohai;oh neat. i already got a 32G sandisk with bsd working, din want to overwrite since i had no spare
1834110;1531492607;shinohai;i more interested in rockchip now, because trb
1834111;1531493348;mod6;asciilifeform: oh, interesting, thought it was netbsd
1834112;1531494258;asciilifeform;shinohai: prolly the best result re trb on rockchip would be with 'adult' samsung sata ssd via usb3-sata snake ( you can buy short one, that fits in box )
1834113;1531494303;asciilifeform;shinohai: it is possible to buy e.g. 512G usb stick, but it is poor bang for bux proposition, it will quickly burn
1834114;1531494346;shinohai;yeah, not abt to try it without ssd
1834115;1531494786;asciilifeform;shinohai: trying doesn't hurt. and iirc somebody actually got a mechanical-hdd node to stay synced more or less decently with aggression patch
1834116;1531494810;asciilifeform;( currently failing to dig up in the l0gz; going from memory )
1834117;1531494991;asciilifeform;rk3328-roc-cc + usb3sata snake + 1tb mech hdd -- might potentially make a working ~100bux trb node. worth a shot, shinohai , if you have a free hand.
1834118;1531495156;BingoBoingo;https://www.elobservador.com.uy/los-inmuebles-son-cada-vez-mas-caros-las-familias-que-quieren-comprar-n1254558 << Of Entomological interest
1834119;1531495892;diana_coman;asciilifeform> shinohai: trying doesn't hurt. and iirc somebody actually got a mechanical-hdd node to stay synced more or less decently with aggression patch -> yes, I did
1834120;1531496339;shinohai;neato diana_coman, also salutations!
1834121;1531496395;diana_coman;hi shinohai
1834122;1531496879;shinohai;congrats on discovery of new object in eulora
1834123;1531497582;asciilifeform;oh hey
1834124;1531497601;asciilifeform;diana_coman: didja ever post block timer readings from that node ?
1834125;1531497666;asciilifeform;diana_coman: and has it stayed reliably in sync ?
1834126;1531497765;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no, I didn't; and yes, it has stayed as far as I can tell (i.e. I check it daily to see if it's in sync and it has been in sync for several months now); if you have somewhere a step-by-step thing with what would be interesting to publish, I can go through it and do it but otherwise tbh I'm so swamped with other stuff that it's waaaay at the bottom of any queue
1834127;1531497802;asciilifeform;aite, this is not a desperately urgent q or anyffing of the kind
1834128;1531497808;diana_coman;shinohai, hey, thanks!
1834129;1531497831;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no, but it might even help at a later time; it wouldn't be wasted time at any rate
1834130;1531497850;asciilifeform;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000256.html << for reference; the block timers.
1834131;1531497868;diana_coman;i.e. noob comes, wants to run node, can point him to minimal reporting guidelines sort of thing
1834132;1531497937;asciilifeform;i expect that soon n00b will be able to revv up a trb box simply by making use of trinque's builder and then 'emerge trb' or the like.
1834133;1531497974;diana_coman;reporting is still a different thing
1834134;1531497983;asciilifeform;( i.e. the old 'rotor'-on-conventional-linux process will finally be obsoleted )
1834135;1531498068;asciilifeform;diana_coman: reporting block r/w times currently requires pressing with the little patch that takes the times. ( it is not part of 'flagship' trb )
1834136;1531498136;diana_coman;right; I didn't press that patch
1834137;1531498171;asciilifeform;notably , the patch started life as a general-purpose profiling of a whole buncha things in trb, but i ended up cutting out all but block timing, given as that was where something like 99% of ~active~ (i.e. as opposed to waiting for rain to fall, this was pre- aggression) cycles are spent
1834138;1531498248;asciilifeform;at any rate, the block processing delay was a kind of red herring, turned out that 'wait for rain to fall' was in fact the culprit in all ( known to asciilifeform ) cases of 'trb node won't stay in sync'
1834139;1531498365;asciilifeform;the longest block-processing delays i ever measured were 4-5 minutes, still well below the 10min magic mark
1834140;1531498373;asciilifeform;( on mech hdd )
1834141;1531498388;diana_coman;the by-now-usual "it's stupider than you'd think"
1834142;1531498429;asciilifeform;actually stike that, there were a few 10-15 min data points
1834143;1531498432;asciilifeform;but rare.
1834144;1531498440;asciilifeform;*strike
1834145;1531498518;asciilifeform;( point being, it may very well be feasible to run a reliable infrastructural trb noad on mech hdd. certainly worth test. )
1834146;1531498551;diana_coman;I suspect it is tbh but yes, we need some data on this
1834147;1531498579;asciilifeform;i suggested it specifically to shinohai because he's apparently still experimenting with trb and afaik isn't tied up with anyffing else.
1834148;1531498721;asciilifeform;conceivably, even 256MB-pogo-cum-mech-hdd-cum-swap-partition-cum-aggression might work.
1834149;1531498753;asciilifeform;( admittedly a stretch )
1834150;1531498812;asciilifeform;shinohai: consider taking a short at porting cuntoo to pogo, oughta be relatively simple
1834151;1531498823;asciilifeform;*shot
1834152;1531498835;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1834153;1531504107;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834133  << probably just get sane logging in there, then can have noob paste from the respective logfile.
1834154;1531504107;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 16:06 diana_coman: reporting is still a different thing
1834155;1531504121;mircea_popescu;iirc ben_vulpes was working on something like that prior to pizarro adventure.
1834156;1531504287;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he actually baked a patch, about same time as my aggression item, http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-December/000282.html
1834157;1531504380;asciilifeform;afaik it doesn't auto-timestamp tho, iirc ben_vulpes , trinque , and possibly others, use linux system log to 'cheat' and get timestamps from trb
1834158;1531504401;mircea_popescu;~sane logging~
1834159;1531504515;asciilifeform;aha. ( imho a Trooly sane log oughta even have separate log, for : block # / time received / time verified & written to db / from where received )
1834160;1531504561;asciilifeform;the mempool crapola oughta be separate log ( even while we do not yet have mircea_popescu's mempooltron-blocktron cut )
1834161;1531504570;mircea_popescu;yeah, should drop a pile of textfiles in /log
1834162;1531504648;asciilifeform;btw , while on subj, how are mircea_popescu's 'aggression' nodez doing ? i.e. stay in sync ?
1834163;1531504670;asciilifeform;mine - yes, iirc mod6's also, and diana_coman's
1834164;1531504791;mircea_popescu;i've not been having syncing problems
1834165;1531504796;mircea_popescu;(not even on classical prb)
1834166;1531504824;asciilifeform;i recall at least 1 episode specifically with mircea_popescu's node, was stuck for, what , 6 wks
1834167;1531504829;asciilifeform;but that was a while ago
1834168;1531504838;mircea_popescu;indeed.
1834169;1531504851;mircea_popescu;also when i got aggressive with iptable configs.
1834170;1531504873;asciilifeform;( i vaguely suspect there exists even a 'herd immunity' of sorts, where aggressive trb helps other peers, of whatever config, stay in shape )
1834171;1531504899;mircea_popescu;probably.
1834172;1531504906;asciilifeform;re iptables, asciilifeform's old 'ban all aws' trick worked wonders for asciilifeform .
1834173;1531504979;asciilifeform;( a surprising % of the moar outrageous prb & quasi-forkolade derps, are stingy, parked on aws )
1834174;1531505029;mircea_popescu;amusingly enough, the shit's so advanced in the soup, all bans help. even http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-remove-usgalphabet-usually-called-google-by-the-jews-pantsuit-from-your-web-experience/#comment-126128
1834175;1531505053;asciilifeform;lol! they also have shitnodes?!
1834176;1531505077;mircea_popescu;they're involved in about half the efforts to make the net a shittier, slower, stinkier, buggier place.
1834177;1531505113;asciilifeform;naturally. but thus far ~all google activity asciilifeform's observed is centered on port80
1834178;1531505157;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: What about google's email spamming?
1834179;1531505206;asciilifeform;( formerly i banned it from phuctor, but after the db optimizations i let it live, shows up occasionally & crawls the broken keys, it dun create any particular problem to date )
1834180;1531505256;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: moar specifically ?
1834181;1531505351;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: The deal where email was a thing and then google made Gmail and ate it
1834182;1531505373;asciilifeform;aa BingoBoingo , i dun expect to see a resurrection of email tho.
1834183;1531505381;asciilifeform;it was eaten and digested and shat long ago.
1834184;1531505475;asciilifeform;gmail was a usg victory aol et al could only dream of, if you're stuck sending email today you're more or less stuck doing it from shitmail, or watch it silently vanish somewhere on the way.
1834185;1531505497;asciilifeform;( in ~both~ directions )
1834186;1531505557;asciilifeform;i have a classical email box, complete with 'squirrelmail' etc, and pretty much only one i was able to have reliable 2way traffic with, was mircea_popescu -- back when he had a similar box
1834187;1531505578;mircea_popescu;heh
1834188;1531505684;mircea_popescu;anyway, tbh i can't find a use for email. if it's not a trilema-article-and-link nor a p.bvulpes-and-link then why isn't it in #trilema.
1834189;1531505745;asciilifeform;the 1 remaining use case is reaching out to heathens who can't be pinged through anything else, but i haven't had any result worth half a shit with that in aeons , so that leaves just about nuffin
1834190;1531505788;asciilifeform;i'm inclined to agree with mircea_popescu's item re the salvation of the drowning.
1834191;1531505802;mircea_popescu;i find fetlife sluts are about 10kx more interesting than hikikomori bois a la whatever set we've been contemplating, from curtis yarvin to rms.
1834192;1531505808;mircea_popescu;and all the menagerie in between.
1834193;1531505817;asciilifeform;well for starters they answer the fuckingmail, neh.
1834194;1531505837;mircea_popescu;in droves. and for other starters, they got tits, and i got pliers, and if they're annoying i twist nipples.
1834195;1531505864;asciilifeform;even http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833889 , is moar fun than talking to /dev/null .
1834196;1531505864;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 15:48 mircea_popescu: aand in today's dose of manilla humour, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bEMvL/?raw=true
1834197;1531505904;mircea_popescu;i r agree!
1834198;1531506212;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: tbh i'm surprised that email lived as long as it did. it was exactly 'dodo bird', 0 defenses against predation at all.
1834199;1531506255;mircea_popescu;strongly relies on implicit wot enforced by "not give tards net access"
1834200;1531506266;BingoBoingo;Pretty much
1834201;1531506269;mircea_popescu;much stronglier than, say, bbs.
1834202;1531506273;asciilifeform;aha, but somehow managed to outlive the tard flood by almost decade.
1834203;1531506287;mircea_popescu;the fact that people pretended "it still works" for longer is imo one of the best points of illustration of anglotards retardation.
1834204;1531506332;mircea_popescu;they have serious privacy issues, in the specific sense that the hole in the church roof bothers them a heck of a lot more than the hole in their outhouse
1834205;1531506355;mircea_popescu;notwithstanding a) nobody cares about church and b) getting drizzled on while shitting is the #1 distinction between nation of africa and nation of human.
1834206;1531506360;asciilifeform;word 'privacy' in application to email, was always a stretch
1834207;1531506420;mircea_popescu;i just mean, because they're being groped in the privacy of their own bedroom, rather than in the publicity of the subway, they tolerate it much better.
1834208;1531506501;mircea_popescu;and in the same way, pretend email is still a thing in 2010, while given up on pretense bbs is still a thing in 1995.
1834209;1531506546;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, most usa zeks couldn't bbs today even if wanted to, the faux voicetel-over-fiber thing they have won't carry modem
1834210;1531506563;asciilifeform;( nor will cellpnoje )
1834211;1531506571;mod6;<+asciilifeform> mine - yes, iirc mod6's also, and diana_coman's << aha, mine have been good, when the hardware has been sane.  so, if I can find the time still this month, I want to add that vpatch to the main vtree @ thebitcoin.foundation
1834212;1531506586;mod6;(and update the howto guide with that info)
1834213;1531506590;asciilifeform;tho asciilifeform was actually able to make 300 baud go , over '2g'
1834214;1531506590;mircea_popescu;of course.
1834215;1531506658;asciilifeform;( at one time asciilifeform bought a number of cellmodems, of various makes , bag of 'sims', and did experiment )
1834216;1531506761;asciilifeform;'2g' , notably, is being phased out in usa, in many places ( and on most of the carriers) nao impossible to make a connection at all with these
1834217;1531506799;asciilifeform;( '3g' and newer , mostly not available in inexpensive chinese modems, because they are made for civilized world, where different bands and protocol are in use )
1834218;1531506822;mircea_popescu;i'm not specifically defending bbs or anything. just making the point, comparably useless/dysfunctional approaches, one lived much longer.
1834219;1531506863;asciilifeform;bbs -- in so far as it represented 'can talk without necessarily going through nsa backbone in london' -- was a greater loss than email.
1834220;1531506888;mircea_popescu;im not aware that ever was a think. trunked is trunked.
1834221;1531506905;asciilifeform;it was, if you were calling local, you would go through 1 hop, local pbx.
1834222;1531506916;mircea_popescu;in 1975.
1834223;1531506917;asciilifeform;( still largely 1970s iron , over here )
1834224;1531506927;mircea_popescu;today, it'd still go through nsa eavesdropping station in london.
1834225;1531506947;asciilifeform;if you have the 'latest and greatest' faux-voice-over-fiber -- then invariably.
1834226;1531506960;asciilifeform;sorta why they tightened the noose on old-school copper telecom.
1834227;1531506971;asciilifeform;( it did not play well with 'put EVERYTHING through london' derpitude )
1834228;1531506980;mircea_popescu;right.
1834229;1531507008;mircea_popescu;soviets had a helluva time tapping them, and all ye olde school "use phone booth" worked wunderbar.
1834230;1531507024;asciilifeform;( copper telco exchanges are still , last i knew, stuck on nixon-era 'police tap box' , writes to... tape )
1834231;1531507096;asciilifeform;these are slowly getting the axe, 1 after another, most of the ( very solidly built, 2metre-thick walls etc ) exchange houses in usa, today largely empty
1834232;1531507111;asciilifeform;they put a 4u cisco thing in the basement somewhere and it replaces whole thing
1834233;1531507127;mircea_popescu;the zek herd has no fucking idea how to defend anything. kinda why they're not worth taking seriously.
1834234;1531507139;mircea_popescu;"oh, give me reasons to" "bitch... you'll just do it and like it, stfu."
1834235;1531507156;asciilifeform;jwz!!
1834236;1531507187;mircea_popescu;they're exactly ready, if tomorrow i start hanging "activists" the population will just clap along. just like the last time around.
1834237;1531507382;asciilifeform;afaik the 'fu, we'll make own internet, with hookers and blackjack, even if we gotta throw cables from window to window' thing had a brief life in usa, in '80s, then silently evaporated
1834238;1531507408;asciilifeform;today all that remains of it , is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-15#1825757
1834239;1531507408;a111;Logged on 2018-06-15 16:47 asciilifeform surveyed what remains of shortwave , it's mostly empty, and what remains is largely these derps, 'texas can you hear me' 'this is utah, we can hear you' etc etc
1834240;1531507416;mircea_popescu;it had a long life in romania. still happens today.
1834241;1531507429;asciilifeform;aha. 'fidonet' reportedly still exists in ru.
1834242;1531507465;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/several-iphones-attacked-with-sideloaded-malware-apps/ << Qntra - Several iPhones Attacked With Sideloaded Malware Apps
1834243;1531507517;mod6;I'm happy to announce that The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd TRB node is fully sync'd and will be added to the list of Advertised Republican Nodeds.
1834244;1531507525;mod6;Nodes, too.
1834245;1531507533;asciilifeform;congrats mod6
1834246;1531507655;mod6;cheers!
1834247;1531507936;asciilifeform;funnily related story, back when asciilifeform was a uni student, cellpnojeism was beginning to spread among plebelands, and asciilifeform noticed that folx were paying telco fiddycents/minute to talk over 1-2km ! so asciilifeform went, like naive idjit, to engineering profs, with 'p2p telephony' proposal thing, reaction was the exact sort of through-the-teeth laughter of today's bernstein re phuctor .
1834248;1531507967;asciilifeform;'It Would Be Wrong'(tm)(r)
1834249;1531508027;mircea_popescu;asswipes.
1834250;1531508035;asciilifeform;this was asciilifeform's 'intro course' to inca/star topology/etc.
1834251;1531508626;asciilifeform;nowadays they've 'progressed', happily pay not merely per minute but monthly ~lease~ on ipnoje, to talk across a street (via packets, via london, etc)
1834252;1531508896;asciilifeform;at uni we had a p2p lan warez thing, that somebody cobbled together. lulzily , however, ~searching~ relied on a central point of failure, at any given time 1 or 2 particular boxes, and they would live for 2-3 months until some rat ratted'em, then cycle repeated.
1834253;1531509054;asciilifeform;( payloads were mostly pr0n , plus buncha 700MB-traditional film rips )
1834254;1531509103;mircea_popescu;nowadays there's lateral peer discovery and things
1834255;1531509123;asciilifeform;right. but nowadays there's also bonsaikitten-students.
1834256;1531509146;mircea_popescu;just saying, the "p2p protocol" as a broad construct seems pretty well fleshed out.
1834257;1531509167;asciilifeform;aha. item however was an ultra-lowtech ad hoc thing, low-effort.
1834258;1531509167;BingoBoingo;At uni there was a little java program called "mytunes" which turned iTunes LAN shared music (a feature only used because of the pirate thing's popularity) into a sort of anon ftp
1834259;1531509226;asciilifeform;the much later, public 'p2p sharing nets' succumbed to wotlessness ( i.e. seeded with infinite fakes and crapola )
1834260;1531509272;asciilifeform;they solved peer discovery, searching, etc. but not sybilism.
1834261;1531509281;BingoBoingo;Well this thing failed because at somepoint everyone ended up with all the same music.
1834262;1531509298;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: that ain't a tech failure, that's a meat failure.
1834263;1531509514;BingoBoingo;There was a parallel meat/tech failure Junior year which ended it. Wifi routers were just starting to become a thing and people kept plugging the WAN cable into the wrong ports. This happened repeatedly in casacades of failure because "Internet doesn't work, port must be bad"
1834264;1531509686;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is a good point, huh. eventually "private tracker" w/e was supposed to sorta-bandaid this
1834265;1531509706;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sorta where state-of-the-art got stuck, to present day.
1834266;1531509754;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1834267;1531509775;mircea_popescu;and they're fucking terrible at user acquisition, too.
1834268;1531512529;BingoBoingo;!!up xdeller
1834269;1531512530;deedbot;xdeller voiced for 30 minutes.
1834270;1531514569;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'private tracker' is really a step backwards, to the central-failure uni lan days. they live for a spell, then get killed/coopted/etc
1834271;1531514596;asciilifeform;( cuz they're, elementarily, not really 'private', they're ~allcomers typically )
1834272;1531514663;asciilifeform;there is not a techno-pill against the requirement of wot, just as there is not a system of magnets and pulleys that gets you a working perpetuum mobile.
1834273;1531514731;asciilifeform;( in either case, naturally there will be found folx who keep right on trying and trying.. )
1834274;1531514784;asciilifeform;'maybe haven't found the right magnets yet!'
1834275;1531516166;asciilifeform;anecdote : some time in 2004 or so, asciilifeform described , to a frustrated-with-lan-warez gurl, how proper p2p net might work, 'picture if each user only connects to folx he knows personally, and queries can hop if there's transitive trust', ~gossipd, etc , reaction : [horrified] 'omfg, like terrorist cells?! how couldyou!'
1834276;1531516295;asciilifeform;incaphilia, turns out, afflicts not only elderly greybeard profs.
1834277;1531516367;*;BingoBoingo reheating incan fried rice with some morcilla dulce.
1834278;1531516378;asciilifeform;lol
1834279;1531516429;asciilifeform;how's the butane fridge treating ya, BingoBoingo ? do i need to include a flammable hydrocarbon sensor in next crate ?
1834280;1531516514;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It is so quiet
1834281;1531516518;BingoBoingo;And cold
1834282;1531516548;asciilifeform;maybe, for double lulz, it's an adiabatic (heater-driven) fridge...
1834283;1531516557;BingoBoingo;The isobutane appears to be a vastly superior refrigerant compared to R134a
1834284;1531516577;asciilifeform;eh they're all 'quiet and cold' when new.
1834285;1531516620;asciilifeform;!#s fram
1834286;1531516620;a111;12 results for "fram", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fram
1834287;1531516640;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1733947 << subj.
1834288;1531516640;a111;Logged on 2017-11-08 02:05 asciilifeform: in related lulz, http://oldschgarage.blogspot.com/2014/11/old-fram-fridge-project.html << same fram ! i had no idea that it was an adiabatic cycle thing
1834289;1531516659;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Back in old country there weren't even quiet and cold on the sales floor
1834290;1531516716;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: there used to be this thing, mostly in orcistans ( 1950s su, ro, elsewhere ) where starvation-cheap fridge, no compressor, but driven by heat ( typically ammonia as working fluid ) , could even run off kitchen gas
1834291;1531516829;asciilifeform;err, adsorption, not adiabatic ( the latter's a different bag of crackpottery )
1834292;1531516844;BingoBoingo;They remain a rural crackpot thing in USistan as well along with R-22 to propane conversions
1834293;1531516972;asciilifeform;'envirowhinerism trinity : expensive, shoddy, deadly' (tm)(r)(uncle al)
1834294;1531517095;diana_coman;asciilifeform, HA, a fram exactly like that was actually IN USE at the countryside 10 years ago; for all I know it might even still work if anybody plugs it in
1834295;1531517107;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i saw one at museum, in timis
1834296;1531517124;asciilifeform;( wasn't plugged in, but prolly worked, supposing the coolant is still in. 0 moving parts. )
1834297;1531517132;diana_coman;I suppose my great grandparents' house could work fine as a museum
1834298;1531517155;asciilifeform;fwiw su fridges ( with compressors ) largely still work, and are prized items, healthy 2ndhand market believe or not exists
1834299;1531517176;asciilifeform;we had a 1950s 'zil' that still worked in '92 when we left.
1834300;1531517193;diana_coman;heh, that's grandparents', yes; next generation basically
1834301;1531517339;asciilifeform;https://krsk.au.ru/10190430/ << subj. ( visually superficially like that 'fram', but 'modern', i.e. with compressor )
1834302;1531517479;diana_coman;the sad part being that really, it's not *just* tech stuff that used to work for ages, it's ~everything
1834303;1531517485;asciilifeform;aha !
1834304;1531517493;asciilifeform;su vacuum cleaners, also prized today
1834305;1531517501;asciilifeform;100% steel, ~eternal motor, etc.
1834306;1531517532;diana_coman;eh, I have some *clothes* that are older than me and look better than new stuff, what can I say
1834307;1531517540;asciilifeform;i have this, also.
1834308;1531517550;asciilifeform;overcoat from 1970s, etc
1834309;1531517571;asciilifeform;lost atlantean tech...
1834310;1531517617;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1832119 << recent thread on subj )
1834311;1531517617;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 22:14 asciilifeform: and on subj, not long ago asciilifeform repaired, for relative, ancestral clock, what looked like cheap alarm clock but is actually an enlarged sov copy of ~swiss~ movement , made to 'cosmonaut' specs, believe
1834312;1531517684;diana_coman;not that much; I can make such clothes just like I can still make bread by hand; but the time needed to make them....
1834313;1531517691;mod6;mircea_popescu, diana_coman : Ben and I have been pouring over the numbers (as i'm getting an education here), and the prorated cost for the rest of July for UY3 will be: 0.03542985 BTC
1834314;1531517702;asciilifeform;diana_coman: in principle you can make just about anyffing by hand. in practice...
1834315;1531517776;*;asciilifeform eats bread made by-hand also.
1834316;1531517812;diana_coman;in practice one single person has only 2 hands, that's the thing
1834317;1531517817;asciilifeform;aaaha.
1834318;1531517856;mod6;I'd like to remind everyone here that Pizarro still desperately needs a manager, please inquire within if you're interested.
1834319;1531517893;diana_coman;mod6, BingoBoingo aren't you though in the best position to work this out?
1834320;1531517957;mod6;Hmm?
1834321;1531517984;mod6;No, this isn't really for me.  And more-over I have too much to do already.
1834322;1531517991;diana_coman;mod6, honestly, how do you see this sorted ?
1834323;1531518003;mod6;hire someone?
1834324;1531518027;asciilifeform;diana_coman: we have a pretty serious shortage of skilled hands.
1834325;1531518067;diana_coman;mod6, ok, but this doesn't strike me like a position that you can interview for exactly just like that, you print the ad in the newspaper and interview applicants or something
1834326;1531518089;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it really has to be a l1 person, and so far no takers.
1834327;1531518107;diana_coman;asciilifeform, well, who exactly do you think would fit the bill anyway?
1834328;1531518107;asciilifeform;phf, trinque , danielpbarron ^
1834329;1531518157;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2018/the-rivers-of-blood-article-or-the-lordship-list-fifth-year << for ref
1834330;1531518187;asciilifeform;hanbot, davout ^ also
1834331;1531518231;asciilifeform;iirc jurov already declined, as did mircea_popescu
1834332;1531518268;asciilifeform;( i omitted diana_coman because presumably hands full, but whoknows... diana_coman ? )
1834333;1531518305;asciilifeform;... lobbes ?
1834334;1531518312;diana_coman;asciilifeform, well, I'm full time at s.mg as it is
1834335;1531518318;asciilifeform;aite
1834336;1531518322;diana_coman;ave1 is l1 too
1834337;1531518338;asciilifeform;oh yes
1834338;1531518353;asciilifeform;... spyked ?
1834339;1531518598;mod6;mircea_popescu, diana_coman : Give me a thumbs up if you believe the box is ready for you to do your testing, and I'll invoice mircea_popescu.
1834340;1531518626;mod6;(at the end of the month, invoices will be sent)
1834341;1531518664;asciilifeform;diana_coman: also then signal BingoBoingo to remove the kvm cables, the kvm box is in no real sense secure , having it plugged in for extended time is a small but definite liability
1834342;1531519497;*;asciilifeform brb
1834343;1531519723;*;BingoBoingo is standing by for the signal
1834344;1531525358;BingoBoingo;And I have discovered something to do with these beaches before the bikinis return: http://www.uruguaypesca.com.uy/2009/11/la-burriqueta-o-borriqueta-es-conoceda.html
1834345;1531526610;mod6;nice
1834346;1531527233;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834333 << I'll state for the record that I consider myself largely unqualified for the role (plus my hopper overfloweth atm)
1834347;1531527233;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:45 asciilifeform: ... lobbes ?
1834348;1531527241;lobbes;to my (admittedly, untrained) eye, it does seem like BingoBoingo is the ideal fit for the role; not only is he literally closest to the venture, but he also has sales experience iirc. Maybe what is needed is just a trusted "assistant manager", i.e. someone to handle the minutiae on a day-to-day basis under the direction of a chief strategist.
1834349;1531527281;lobbes;seems like that's what mod6 and BB are missing: "bandwidth to do X"
1834350;1531527405;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816438 << in other news, you were not kidding! my trb (hdd + aggression) has moved a mere 20K blocks in one month
1834351;1531527405;a111;Logged on 2018-05-22 00:06 ben_vulpes: stand by to slow down
1834352;1531527653;lobbes;seemed to hit the wall right around height 350000
1834353;1531527818;asciilifeform;lobbes: your node sounds like a good candidate for the timer patch (i.e. determine, why not syncs, is it block db delay, or it somehow gets nuffin from peers, or which.)
1834354;1531527867;asciilifeform;mid 300s is iirc where the packed-to-the-gunwales 'stress test'(tm)(r) blox begin.
1834355;1531528026;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu had good point, in that if sane logging (i.e. with msec timestamps for everything) were standard, question could be answered immediately.
1834356;1531531230;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834276 << it was always a ((sexually worthless males) + (reproductive value women)) construct.
1834357;1531531230;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:11 asciilifeform: incaphilia, turns out, afflicts not only elderly greybeard profs.
1834358;1531531401;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834299 << i had one at home growing up, too.
1834359;1531531401;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:26 asciilifeform: we had a 1950s 'zil' that still worked in '92 when we left.
1834360;1531531406;mircea_popescu;o look, it's even in the logs! http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-08#1012491
1834361;1531531406;a111;Logged on 2015-02-08 05:44 mircea_popescu: http://media.englishrussia.com/new_images//zilmuseum-50.jpg << exactly the one in middle
1834362;1531531415;mircea_popescu;turns up top of the search if you try and find "zil fridge"
1834363;1531531574;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834316 << hence by extension of http://trilema.com/2010/doua-fete-argumentul-economic/ , the harem as an economic necessity. the marginal cost to make bread for 12 as opposed to 3 is sub 50% ; the marginal benefit from having local taylor to make you a dress while you make bread...
1834364;1531531574;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:36 diana_coman: in practice one single person has only 2 hands, that's the thing
1834365;1531531624;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834322 << this is a fine question. what's the envisaged happy ending here ?
1834366;1531531624;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:39 diana_coman: mod6, honestly, how do you see this sorted ?
1834367;1531531698;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834332 << she's technical rather than management track, also. much like you, and presumably a lot of other people in l1. which is a fundamental weakness we've been copacetically not really trying to address.
1834368;1531531698;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:44 asciilifeform: ( i omitted diana_coman because presumably hands full, but whoknows... diana_coman ? )
1834369;1531531866;mircea_popescu;(large part of the problem being, of course, that management folk are very disused to any sort or kind of actual work ; matter-of-coursedly display bizarre remunerative expectations on one hand and middling skills at busyworking/clockwaiting doubling an appetite for actual work verging on nil.)
1834370;1531532160;lobbes;asciilifeform: oya, I've squirreled away that link to the timer patch you dropped earlier in the logs. I'm thinking I'll apply it to my node once I get auctionbot2.0 through the conveyor, after which I can publish more concrete data.
1834371;1531533034;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in "sales/leads generating machines", http://trilema.com/contact-pgp/#comment-126230
1834372;1531533124;mircea_popescu;because the moron utterly has to http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ ; can't simply come fucking here, register a key, do something useful as ordered. no, none of that, business school produces more special cuntlets than miss america competitions, he gotta sing his own fucking tune. because this is actually possible, every dick, tan and harry can come up with marching tunes.
1834373;1531533207;mircea_popescu;i'm about as impressed of this autistic waste as of pete_dushenski's latest lists of important bitcoin posts he thinks he's made, and whatever other monkey-emperors of "all they survey".
1834374;1531533231;BingoBoingo; lobbes et al: I'll keep taking stuff on my plate, but the reason Pizarro isn't BBISP is... A need for more direction.
1834375;1531533263;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo in practical terms, you got a place to sleep and an internet connection. what specifically is keeping you from building up sales funnels ?
1834376;1531533318;mircea_popescu;trinque's provided a turnkey accounting solution, you do a !!ledger once a month, reconcile it with ops list and there you go, accounting's done.
1834377;1531533326;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Nothing, updates from the funnel mines should be starting
1834378;1531533380;mircea_popescu;did pizarro ever build up a localbitcoins acct ?
1834379;1531533416;mircea_popescu;did the clickbank account ever stand up ? etc etc, i dunno how executing on the lenghty list of items in the log these pasts month could put one behind.
1834380;1531533663;BingoBoingo;I have one a localbitcoins account, started flirting with the alt-alt, and do have this lengthy list of items to push on
1834381;1531533692;mircea_popescu;alrighty.
1834382;1531533894;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834328 << mod6 also ran this by me. most of my opposition stems from having a lengthy list of wallet features yet to build, which have been delayed by (quite necessary) gentoo confiscation.
1834383;1531533894;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:41 asciilifeform: phf, trinque , danielpbarron ^
1834384;1531533904;BingoBoingo;I am comfortable taking tech direction from alf. If mod6 wants to take the purse from ben_vulpes, that's a board.
1834385;1531533946;trinque;beyond that, what's not clear is whether management means directing, or doing a lot of hands-on work on machines. it's likely I have little time for the former, but have absolutely no time for the latter.
1834386;1531534086;trinque;the fact that wallet features benefit greatly from a live and healthy pizarro is also not lost on me, which is why I jumped to be (afaik) live customer #1
1834387;1531534164;mircea_popescu;trinque i don't think you have any business getting involved, fwiw. you're doing great in your line, keep doing that.
1834388;1531534217;trinque;yep, delicately saying as much. activist customer is about as far as I'm able to sign in blood atm.
1834389;1531534256;BingoBoingo;Well, pizarro has the dedicated boxes that require invoicing and the occasional standup. The rockchips that require invoicing and the occasional standup. Then there's the shared hosting server which is beefy as hell and runs a very lean gentoo.
1834390;1531534655;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834322 << this is a fine question. what's the envisaged happy ending here ? << As I was saying, was hoping to hire someone.
1834391;1531534655;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 21:39 diana_coman: mod6, honestly, how do you see this sorted ?
1834392;1531534787;mod6;I understand if this doesn't happen right away, but eventually, position will need to be filled.  The offer stands, even if it stands for some time.
1834393;1531534788;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: standing up boxen, to the degree that it can be done telerobotically, is asciilifeform's .
1834394;1531534803;asciilifeform;( as with the most recent one )
1834395;1531534813;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: And that has been a welcome change
1834396;1531534880;BingoBoingo;<mod6> I understand if this doesn't happen right away, but eventually, position will need to be filled.  The offer stands, even if it stands for some time. << One way to handle this is... Take over what ben_vulpes on an interim basis and hand off tasks you don't have time for.
1834397;1531535437;mircea_popescu;mod6 yes hire someone, i get it, but really that's not how hiring works. hire someone that what ?
1834398;1531535477;mod6;Yeah, I need to write up a job description.
1834399;1531535517;mircea_popescu;a new one ?!
1834400;1531535555;mod6;And BingoBoingo, yeah, that's the plan.  I'll do the best I can at this, but the more I learn about what was all involved day-to-day with ben_vulpes, the more I'm worried that I'm ill-equiped to do this work.
1834401;1531535575;mod6;mircea_popescu: hmm?
1834402;1531535668;mod6;To your question "hire someone that what ?" : That manages the day-to-day task for BingoBoingo, does accouting tasks (reporting, invoicing, payments), can possibly lend a hand with sysadmin tasks.  That sort of thing.
1834403;1531535679;mircea_popescu;i dunno what the impediment is here. looky here : 1. you want to write a ~new~ job description, now. the job isn't new, so where's the old job description ? if you didn't have one then, why would you have one now, and if you didn't think you need one then, why would you need one now, and if it didn't occur to you to write it then why are you qualified to write it now ?
1834404;1531535682;mod6;So, a job description would be helpful.
1834405;1531535712;mod6;lol.
1834406;1531535723;mod6;I have no idea.  I'm just trying to swim upstream here, Sir.
1834407;1531535765;mircea_popescu;2. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-02#1831375 STILL didn't get a direct answer, two weeks later. this "withdraw into busywork" reaction to uncomfortable realities may work (it doesn't work, but subjectively may seem to work) in lines typically well fit to the autistic. but as things stand here it's at least mildly insulting to BingoBoingo, that he's the dood on the ground and you're somehow looking right throguh him.
1834408;1531535765;a111;Logged on 2018-07-02 18:37 mircea_popescu: well... so what are you gonna do, promote in house i suppose ?
1834409;1531535797;mod6;No no.
1834410;1531535803;mircea_popescu;ima ask again the thing i asked you lot when you came up with the batshit insane options arrangement : do you think he's not a real person because he's actually DOING things, real things, scary real things such as fucking venezuelans, and real people are only the meditative kind ?
1834411;1531535812;mircea_popescu;because there's problems here, and you're not helping yourself with the approach.
1834412;1531535824;mod6;I sent out personalized letters to two Lords asking if they wanted to fill the role.  I didn't sit back and kick it.
1834413;1531535847;mod6;And to the point of BingoBoingo, he has said before that he wants direction from a manager.  As he said earlier tonight.
1834414;1531535855;mircea_popescu;the difference between these two is lost on me, seeing how the lords are at least sufficiently acquainted with the situation and sufficiently possessed of their own wits to volunteer if they feel it.
1834415;1531535877;mircea_popescu;yes, well, and i want kim kardashian to blow up my ass. we get what we get.
1834416;1531535896;BingoBoingo;mod6: A fairly hands off (i.e not day to day situation) report to the board situation is fine
1834417;1531535968;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo and you! don't get into that situation where halp, has not what to eat and nothing's moving, you hear ? survival skills, yes!
1834418;1531536089;BingoBoingo;Since leaving the noise of the hostel that possible reality has been easier to hear.
1834419;1531536225;mod6;<+a111> Logged on 2018-07-02 18:37 mircea_popescu: well... so what are you gonna do, promote in house i suppose ? << you know, when we talked about this a week ago... it never even considered BingoBoingo , not because i think he's not a person or any such nonsense.  But because when we started this ventue, he said that he needed strict guidence.
1834420;1531536227;asciilifeform;imho BingoBoingo is ideal for the job.
1834421;1531536243;mod6;But I missed what you were asking, you were asking if I was going to promote BingoBoingo.  I totally didn't even get that until just now.
1834422;1531536253;mircea_popescu;ikr.
1834423;1531536271;asciilifeform;d00d survived the seven hells, fleas, brazilians.
1834424;1531536272;BingoBoingo;Well, the strict guidance thing was before ben_vulpes gave it a shot
1834425;1531536285;mod6;And I agree that the man could be good at it.  But I tend to believe a man when he says "hey, I need instructions, day to day".
1834426;1531536304;mircea_popescu;the more you believe that, the more the day-to-day instructions books grow...
1834427;1531536305;BingoBoingo;Week to week should suffice
1834428;1531536313;mod6;Hey, nothing against BingoBoingo.  At all.  He has been through a battle, this is true.
1834429;1531536316;trinque;after surving all that, man just needs a mirror and to look once in a while
1834430;1531536333;trinque;"oh, should shave/eat/get dick sucked for wildcatting like a boss"
1834431;1531536354;trinque;actually fuck the shave, wildcatters grow beards
1834432;1531536366;BingoBoingo;<trinque> actually fuck the shave, wildcatters grow beards << This is true
1834433;1531536380;BingoBoingo;Shaving leads to razor bumps
1834434;1531536390;mod6;Well...
1834435;1531536408;mircea_popescu;i got beard...
1834436;1531536456;trinque;trinque, beard also. the metaphor went sideways on me!
1834437;1531536465;mod6;BingoBoingo: I'm gonna let you think about it for a few days if you need.  Think about if you really want to take on major parts of this role.  I think you ~can~ do it.  But, I don't want you to feel overwhelemed or pushed into it either.
1834438;1531536477;BingoBoingo;Last time I tried the shaving it was maybe a week and a half before I had straight out of Africa shaving bumps
1834439;1531536515;mircea_popescu;mod6 seriously, pushing people into things, scary things especially, is what the job is. fuck him, let him swim already. what is this, the girlscouts ?!
1834440;1531536568;mod6;i need the man to stay content with his situation, he's the boots on the ground.
1834441;1531536593;BingoBoingo;I'm not buddhist. Contentment is impossible
1834442;1531536680;mod6;Alright.
1834443;1531536698;BingoBoingo;But we have just about burned through half of July since ben_vulpes' announcement
1834444;1531554490;diana_coman;mod6, asciilifeform BingoBoingo thumbs up, box is ready, thank you!
1834445;1531554504;diana_coman;please remove kvm and cables
1834446;1531555173;diana_coman;and as a customer of Pizarro I'd be very happy to know that BingoBoingo takes on the management role and gets it moving;also, re directions to my mind this forum here is a great place to come and ask about scary/unknown stuff *early*
1834447;1531555235;diana_coman;I meant: to ask early about it and get help figuring it all out
1834448;1531574595;diana_coman;!!up brazilish
1834449;1531574596;deedbot;brazilish voiced for 30 minutes.
1834450;1531574611;diana_coman;brazilish, voicing is based on your standing with deedbot
1834451;1531574634;diana_coman;brazilish, what are you working on?
1834452;1531574652;brazilish;the real bitcoin node
1834453;1531574665;brazilish;trying to set it up on a vps to give it a try
1834454;1531574665;diana_coman;so what are you doing with it exactly?
1834455;1531574674;diana_coman;aha; do you have a blog anywhere?
1834456;1531574686;brazilish;no but i'll make one
1834457;1531574698;brazilish;i'm trying to running trb on the cheapest possible setting
1834458;1531574731;brazilish;currently is syncing on a single core kvm vps
1834459;1531574749;brazilish;first question is: do initial sync benefits from moar cores?
1834460;1531574758;diana_coman;there is that "I'm too poor to afford cheap things"
1834461;1531574763;diana_coman;but anyway
1834462;1531574814;diana_coman;brazilish, the good approach there is to gather data on that, publish it with discussion and link it here
1834463;1531574824;diana_coman;and yes, do make yourself a blog
1834464;1531574835;brazilish;actual stats on a 10 USD vps: 1.5h to compile w/o issues on debian 8
1834465;1531574865;brazilish;then added a 30 usd 300GB virtual drive to store the blockchain, and started the syncing process
1834466;1531574893;brazilish;now at height 200k is becoming painfully slow to process blocks
1834467;1531574901;diana_coman;!!v 8376BDDBF18F260F7DF218B104B676C9726A5BB17942BA1CDAA49A6E5AD50C88
1834468;1531574901;deedbot;diana_coman rated brazilish 1 << He says he's trying to run TRB and get himself a blog.
1834469;1531574912;diana_coman;there, I rated you so you should be able to self-voice now
1834470;1531574912;brazilish;thanks diana_coman
1834471;1531574943;diana_coman;brazilish, did you get the timing patch and noticed lower timings or how is that "painfully slow to process blocks" evaluated?
1834472;1531574981;brazilish;i followed the procedure on thebitcoin.foundation
1834473;1531574997;brazilish;does it include this patch?
1834474;1531575007;diana_coman;procedure for evaluating time?? link?
1834475;1531575040;diana_coman;iirc no, it does not; did you read the log for yesterday?
1834476;1531575051;brazilish;painfully slow: last 24h processed just 10k blocks
1834477;1531575051;diana_coman;it's mandatory before talking in it today
1834478;1531575090;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: ty, going to get some caffeine in me and make it there
1834479;1531575099;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, cool, no hurry
1834480;1531575240;diana_coman;brazilish, it will get slower; iirc there is even some known further slow down ~300k ; that doesn't mean though that more cores will do anything; before you attempt throwing more cores at it or better disks or whatever, you need to understand *what* causes this slow down; so if you are serious about it, go and investigate and see where is the bottleneck
1834481;1531575281;diana_coman;this is not even a bad project for starting, so go for it, just do it properly and publish the write up
1834482;1531575372;brazilish;diana_coman: ok
1834483;1531575423;brazilish;can i ask what specs have actual running trb nodes?
1834484;1531575567;diana_coman;!!s trb node
1834485;1531575588;brazilish;and approx how much time the initial sync needs with these specs
1834486;1531575605;diana_coman;uhm, search for "trb node" in the logs - that's about the closest you'll get
1834487;1531575627;diana_coman;brazilish, the fastest way to sync short of feeding the blocks directly is with the agression patch
1834488;1531575685;brazilish;btw, I did my research about the evil of a virtual machine setup, but I'm just doing it to test a running node before having bare metal at my premises
1834489;1531575713;brazilish;so wanted to stay on the cheap side
1834490;1531575802;diana_coman;brazilish, nothing wrong with experimenting as long as it's done with a clear plan and then reported on
1834491;1531575928;brazilish;diana_coman: i saw on the foundation site that you have an advertised node
1834492;1531575940;diana_coman;and a serious dose of log reading seems required; do your searches, gather what answers you get from them , write them in a post on your blog and THEN if it's still unclear come and ask, with a link "here's what I figured out, here's what I still have no idea on"
1834493;1531575954;brazilish;can i ask the specs of this one and if you remember how much has spent syncing?
1834494;1531575970;diana_coman;you can ask; I don't see the benefit to either of us in an answer
1834495;1531576153;diana_coman;!!up xdeller
1834496;1531576154;deedbot;xdeller voiced for 30 minutes.
1834497;1531576161;diana_coman;hello xdeller , what brings you here?
1834498;1531579239;deedbot;http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/07/14/cutting-mysql-into-musl-shape/ << Ossasepia - Cutting MySQL into Musl Shape
1834499;1531580060;brazilish;problem: downloaded asciilifeform_blackhole_reads.vpatch and placed in patches folder, same for the sig file in .seals, then running ./v.pl p v trb054 makefiles.vpatch, but i don't get the patch in the src files
1834500;1531580411;diana_coman;brazilish, do you understand how V works?
1834501;1531580437;brazilish;yes
1834502;1531580485;diana_coman;good; explain why do you think it should press that patch ?
1834503;1531580521;brazilish;ok, got it now
1834504;1531580910;asciilifeform;oh hey
1834505;1531580927;asciilifeform;diana_coman: was mysql the only eulora component that misbehaved on musl ?
1834506;1531580953;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it was the first; but also quite an important one
1834507;1531580979;diana_coman;ftr screen also fails and I'd rather have it than not have it but it's not a eulora dep in itself
1834508;1531581027;asciilifeform;life is pretty hard without 'screen', i'ma look at it as soon as i have own cuntoo going
1834509;1531581037;asciilifeform;( supposing diana_coman or trinque don't cure it first )
1834510;1531581052;diana_coman;I still have to go through the rest and I'll probably report as I go
1834511;1531581413;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834483 << just about anything with 2GB or more memory will work -- trb is not really cpu-bound . a 1TB disk will last you 3-5 yrs until fills. ideally ssd ( though the exact penalty from using mechanical disk is not yet known, see last night's thread ). if ssd -- i recommend samsung's, cheapo ssd typically burns after 1-2 yrs of trb wear.
1834512;1531581413;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 13:37 brazilish: can i ask what specs have actual running trb nodes?
1834513;1531581487;asciilifeform;brazilish: fwiw my personal everyday-use node is a box the size of my fist, cost about 100 $ ( not incl. disk ) , runs off a 12v line
1834514;1531581579;diana_coman;asciilifeform, you know, ~all that is *already* in the logs; but I don't know what sort of shoving and pushing and prodding will get him to really search for it
1834515;1531581594;asciilifeform;diana_coman: know what, yer right, i'ma let him dig.
1834516;1531581820;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834457 << ftr this is a ~very~ Bad Idea . for instance , i do not know in what starvation-cheapo hoster brazilish put his node, but if it was aws he will find that he cannot connect to ~any of the l1 folx's trb nodes, most people ban aws ip range whole
1834517;1531581820;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 13:24 brazilish: i'm trying to running trb on the cheapest possible setting
1834518;1531581920;asciilifeform;'virtual' hosters attract undesirable faux-nodes, like rubbish bins in usa attract raccoon
1834519;1531582005;asciilifeform;( for old-worlders -- astonishing beast, can grow to german shepherd size, opposable thumbs unscrew jars, open doors... )
1834520;1531582155;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1834521;1531582471;brazilish;asciilifeform: is vultr
1834522;1531582487;brazilish;different AS from aws, still under US control
1834523;1531582855;BingoBoingo;diana_coman asciilifeform KVM is pulled
1834524;1531584507;mircea_popescu;!!rated Bugpowder
1834525;1531584508;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated Bugpowder 1 at 2013/01/27 08:10:09 << Old hand. Long time, no see.
1834526;1531584529;shinohai;ah the good ol mp join/part bannhammer
1834527;1531584537;mircea_popescu;!!rate Bugpowder -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834528;1531584540;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5W2B0/?raw=true
1834529;1531584552;mircea_popescu;!!rated pete_dushenski
1834530;1531584552;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated pete_dushenski 2 at 2014/07/08 01:02:37 << Pimp.
1834531;1531584557;mircea_popescu;!!rate pete_dushenski -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834532;1531584560;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sdoLw/?raw=true
1834533;1531584655;mircea_popescu;!!rated mike_c
1834534;1531584655;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated mike_c 4 at 2016/05/17 03:26:26 << the right honorable lord c.
1834535;1531584665;mircea_popescu;!!rate mike_c -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834536;1531584668;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AMz5B/?raw=true
1834537;1531584683;mircea_popescu;!!rated azelphur
1834538;1531584684;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated azelphur 2 at 2012/09/28 05:17:31 << joined Eulora even!
1834539;1531584687;mircea_popescu;!!rate azelphur  -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834540;1531584701;mircea_popescu;!!rate azelphur -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834541;1531584704;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/I1jEn/?raw=true
1834542;1531584706;mircea_popescu;!!rated dooglus
1834543;1531584707;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated dooglus 2 at 2016/03/07 09:36:24 << ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.
1834544;1531584711;mircea_popescu;!!rate dooglus -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834545;1531584714;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/r06Gq/?raw=true
1834546;1531584725;mircea_popescu;!!rated elaineo
1834547;1531584725;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated elaineo 2 at 2017/09/26 04:47:52 << somehow manages to write unirritatingly while also academia. i have yet no theory as to how this is possible.
1834548;1531584728;mircea_popescu;!!rate elaineo -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834549;1531584732;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/g08Dp/?raw=true
1834550;1531584743;mircea_popescu;!!rated gabriel_laddel
1834551;1531584744;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated gabriel_laddel 2 at 2016/08/12 12:08:25 << "McClim & stuff"
1834552;1531584746;mircea_popescu;!!rate gabriel_laddel -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834553;1531584749;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/a2dOF/?raw=true
1834554;1531584758;mircea_popescu;!!rated mats
1834555;1531584758;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated mats 2 at 2015/04/07 21:29:49 << http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/#comment-113478 ; helping people get pogos, stuff.
1834556;1531584762;mircea_popescu;!!rate mats -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834557;1531584765;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/e5g8z/?raw=true
1834558;1531584772;mircea_popescu;!!rated mthreat
1834559;1531584772;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated mthreat 2 at 2014/06/21 04:42:17 << Awesome search ; coffee
1834560;1531584775;mircea_popescu;!!rate mthreat -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834561;1531584778;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wu5R0/?raw=true
1834562;1531584792;mircea_popescu;!!rated tcatm
1834563;1531584792;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated tcatm 2 at 2012/02/28 11:40:39 << bitcoincharts fellow, sold me adspace.
1834564;1531584796;mircea_popescu;!!rate tcatm -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834565;1531584798;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bvjXk/?raw=true
1834566;1531584811;mircea_popescu;!!rated vc
1834567;1531584812;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated vc 2 at 2016/05/25 15:23:13 << cock.li hoster ; published "secret" supoena back in 2015.
1834568;1531584814;mircea_popescu;!!rate vc -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834569;1531584816;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6ZFWS/?raw=true
1834570;1531584885;mircea_popescu;!!rated Chillum
1834571;1531584885;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated Chillum 1 at 2015/03/27 19:59:57 << wikipedia
1834572;1531584889;mircea_popescu;!!rate Chillum -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834573;1531584891;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4VYEX/?raw=true
1834574;1531584993;mircea_popescu;!!rated TomServo
1834575;1531584994;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated TomServo 1 at 2014/04/15 21:39:46 << New blood.
1834576;1531584996;mircea_popescu;!!rate Chillum -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834577;1531584999;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tSXmS/?raw=true
1834578;1531585001;mircea_popescu;!!rate TomServo -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834579;1531585004;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HXP9F/?raw=true
1834580;1531585043;mircea_popescu;!!rated ageis
1834581;1531585043;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated ageis 1 at 2012/09/28 05:16:16 << made a win binary for pympex
1834582;1531585048;mircea_popescu;!!rate ageis  -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834583;1531585050;mircea_popescu;!!rate ageis -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834584;1531585053;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/loDw7/?raw=true
1834585;1531585191;mircea_popescu;!!rated copypaste
1834586;1531585192;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated copypaste 1 at 2016/01/11 11:08:55 << HotWheels / 8chan guy
1834587;1531585195;mircea_popescu;!!rate copypaste -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834588;1531585197;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XQOry/?raw=true
1834589;1531585234;mircea_popescu;!!rated diametric
1834590;1531585235;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated diametric 1 at 2014/01/25 10:51:22 << mechanical engineer guy, S.NSA subcontractor
1834591;1531585237;mircea_popescu;!!rate diametric -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834592;1531585240;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wKdyH/?raw=true
1834593;1531585289;mircea_popescu;!!rated esthlos
1834594;1531585290;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated esthlos 1 at 2017/12/18 16:20:18 << WRT lulz.
1834595;1531585315;mircea_popescu;!!rate esthlos 2 At the rate he's going, promising lordship candidate.
1834596;1531585318;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PQ1zw/?raw=true
1834597;1531585342;mircea_popescu;!!rated guix
1834598;1531585342;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated guix 1 at 2011/07/22 10:11:26 << Very helpful to first timers
1834599;1531585347;mircea_popescu;!!rate guix -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834600;1531585349;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WhxPq/?raw=true
1834601;1531585366;mircea_popescu;!!rated herbijudlestoids
1834602;1531585366;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated herbijudlestoids 1 at 2017/06/03 04:25:59 << missed on all the things.
1834603;1531585368;mircea_popescu;!!rate herbijudlestoids -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834604;1531585371;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2bWFf/?raw=true
1834605;1531585390;mircea_popescu;!!rated irdial
1834606;1531585390;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated irdial 1 at 2016/01/15 18:08:55 << new blood
1834607;1531585393;mircea_popescu;!!rate irdial -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834608;1531585395;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/bL5Ti/?raw=true
1834609;1531585399;mircea_popescu;!!rated isokivi
1834610;1531585399;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated isokivi 1 at 2012/12/06 12:22:19 << Bitcoin cufflinks!
1834611;1531585401;mircea_popescu;!!rate isokivi -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834612;1531585404;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Qcpyp/?raw=true
1834613;1531585423;mircea_popescu;!!rated jossi
1834614;1531585423;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated jossi 1 at 2018/04/13 22:09:13 << ukrainian-french girl working for the rich of nyc. wiwa la rebolucion!
1834615;1531585428;mircea_popescu;!!rate jossi -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834616;1531585431;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dulbh/?raw=true
1834617;1531585438;mircea_popescu;!!rated kjj
1834618;1531585439;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated kjj 1 at 2017/11/27 14:12:51 << Ancient.
1834619;1531585442;mircea_popescu;!!rate kjj -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834620;1531585445;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Lnez2/?raw=true
1834621;1531585464;mircea_popescu;!!rated kmalkki
1834622;1531585464;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated kmalkki 1 at 2016/10/06 13:41:31 << coreboot
1834623;1531585467;mircea_popescu;!!rate kmalkki -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834624;1531585470;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Zeqh3/?raw=true
1834625;1531585504;mircea_popescu;!!rated lyspooner
1834626;1531585505;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated lyspooner 1 at 2012/03/08 14:08:03 << Old hand. Long time, no see.
1834627;1531585508;mircea_popescu;!!rate lyspooner -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834628;1531585511;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/pYlz0/?raw=true
1834629;1531585537;mircea_popescu;!!rated mihi
1834630;1531585538;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated mihi 1 at 2017/05/06 18:55:52 << can pcap. see also http://schierlm.users.sourceforge.net/
1834631;1531585543;mircea_popescu;!!rate mihi -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834632;1531585545;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/LoLF3/?raw=true
1834633;1531585562;mircea_popescu;!!rated namworld
1834634;1531585562;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated namworld 1 at 2012/09/19 19:25:07 << Old hand. Long time, no see.
1834635;1531585564;mircea_popescu;!!rate namworld -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834636;1531585567;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hwTkm/?raw=true
1834637;1531585614;mircea_popescu;!!rated phillipsjk
1834638;1531585615;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated phillipsjk 1 at 2015/02/05 17:56:00 << His simplicity is endearing.
1834639;1531585616;mircea_popescu;!!rate phillipsjk -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834640;1531585619;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dGAJv/?raw=true
1834641;1531585644;mircea_popescu;!!rated polarbeard
1834642;1531585645;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated polarbeard 1 at 2016/01/22 17:39:19 << Managed a V press.
1834643;1531585655;mircea_popescu;!!rate polarbeard -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834644;1531585658;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ilb9I/?raw=true
1834645;1531585662;mircea_popescu;!!rated reeses
1834646;1531585662;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated reeses 1 at 2012/09/19 19:27:02 << Old hand. Long time, no see.
1834647;1531585665;mircea_popescu;!!rate reeses -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834648;1531585668;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/03e32/?raw=true
1834649;1531585719;mircea_popescu;!!rated simonpenner
1834650;1531585719;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated simonpenner 1 at 2017/02/01 01:12:26 << runs status451.com
1834651;1531585722;mircea_popescu;!!rate simonpenner -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834652;1531585725;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QdATL/?raw=true
1834653;1531585764;mircea_popescu;!!rated teppy
1834654;1531585765;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated teppy 1 at 2012/09/28 16:40:53 << dev of a tale in the desert (mmorpg)
1834655;1531585769;mircea_popescu;!!rate teppy -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834656;1531585772;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/9egJH/?raw=true
1834657;1531585798;mircea_popescu;!!rated vandroiy
1834658;1531585798;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated vandroiy 1 at 2012/09/01 22:00:35 << Risked 5k of his own bitcoins to help a bunch of forum retards see the light.
1834659;1531585802;mircea_popescu;!!rate vandroiy -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834660;1531585804;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qnu5K/?raw=true
1834661;1531585850;mircea_popescu;!!rated znort987
1834662;1531585850;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated znort987 1 at 2012/12/12 18:34:54 << he's in the MPEx faq
1834663;1531585854;mircea_popescu;!!rate znort987 -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834664;1531585857;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/61F52/?raw=true
1834665;1531585873;mircea_popescu;smoking nervously in the corner, cazalla mother[m] valentinbuza zineKing zx2c4 etc.
1834666;1531586021;BingoBoingo;Well, everyone was warned in February during the last bleeding
1834667;1531586029;BingoBoingo;The morcilla won't make itself
1834668;1531586193;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30InBgGhiSo is all i got to say.
1834669;1531587036;asciilifeform;oh hey woodchipper day
1834670;1531587137;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834523 << ack'd. ty BingoBoingo .
1834671;1531587137;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 15:40 BingoBoingo: diana_coman asciilifeform KVM is pulled
1834672;1531587403;asciilifeform;https://archive.fo/LKTNN << in other recent lulz. guido van rossum (author of python) throws in the towel.
1834673;1531588826;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/israel-bombs-their-gaza-concentration-camp-again/ << Qntra - Israel Bombs Their Gaza Concentration Camp Again
1834674;1531596739;deedbot;http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/07/14/the-joy-of-morcilla-dulce/ << Bingo Blog - The Joy Of Morcilla Dulce
1834675;1531604129;shinohai;https://jobs.freenode.net/all-jobs  <<< the budding freenode job board with 6 whole jobs for webshit enthusiasts
1834676;1531604665;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform fuck him, i dunno that he was part of any kind of solution at any point in his miserable existence.
1834677;1531604678;mircea_popescu;COCsuckers.
1834678;1531605259;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: d00d was a noxious twit for as long as i can remember
1834679;1531606853;BingoBoingo;Of the worst kind. Made an alt-perl and then would not stop breaking it
1834680;1531613162;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834531 << not long ago i peeked at d00d's www, it is full of ???. even attends shitcoin 'conferences' nao.
1834681;1531613162;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 16:09 mircea_popescu: !!rate pete_dushenski -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1834682;1531613268;asciilifeform;in his words, lol, 'I never did make it down for one of MP’s famous conferences, then he stopped having them a few years back. So wut do.'
1834683;1531613277;asciilifeform;mega-logic...
1834684;1531614346;mircea_popescu;self-centerdness. it's a thing.
1834685;1531616987;BingoBoingo; And dude *likes* Vancouver. Like what the fuck
1834686;1531617771;*;asciilifeform idly wonders how long it'll take the drummed-out f-students to notice
1834687;1531618099;mircea_popescu;define notice.
1834688;1531618128;asciilifeform;dunno, douchebag-style, bang on the door and exclaim 'why me' etc
1834689;1531618134;mircea_popescu;ah.
1834690;1531618146;mircea_popescu;i dunno, what difference does it make ?
1834691;1531618156;asciilifeform;none, entomological curiosity.
1834692;1531618225;mircea_popescu;notice as in, you know, actually notice, "omfg i can't believe what a shithead i am, missed out on the financial bitcoin train and then on the political too, i truly am too stuipid to fucking live" and subsequently blow their brains out, as any sort of rational process absolutely dictates...
1834693;1531618240;mircea_popescu;if they were capable of thought they wouldn't have the problems of idiots.
1834694;1531620330;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/adventures-con-velas-and-other-things/ << Trilema - Adventures con velas, and other things.
1834695;1531622546;deedbot;http://thewhet.net/2018/07/and-they-said-you-cant-take-it-with-you/ << The Whet - And they said you can't take it with you.
1834696;1531631452;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834378 << yes, sold a small amount of btc via WU through this channel
1834697;1531631452;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 01:56 mircea_popescu: did pizarro ever build up a localbitcoins acct ?
1834698;1531631613;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834379 << clickbank is fiat-only, and as for the "btc affiliate programs" http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-21#1828510
1834699;1531631613;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 01:56 mircea_popescu: did the clickbank account ever stand up ? etc etc, i dunno how executing on the lenghty list of items in the log these pasts month could put one behind.
1834700;1531631613;a111;Logged on 2018-06-21 23:47 mircea_popescu: leaving aside the quite obvious question of why would one even entertain a wanna-be bitcoin thing that's uppity enough to not be here in the first place.
1834701;1531631855;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834420 << he is positioned to do a far better job than i have/can, and i believe that he will
1834702;1531631855;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 02:43 asciilifeform: imho BingoBoingo is ideal for the job.
1834703;1531632047;ben_vulpes;for instance (attn asciilifeform, mod6, BingoBoingo), while reviewing books with mod6 recently i realized that i calculated s.mg's lease cost from the machine purchased from s.nsa (which we got bare, no storage), and not from the cost of the machine stuffed full of disks.
1834704;1531632450;deedbot;http://pizarroisp.net/2018/07/15/june-statement/ << PizzaroISP - Pizarro June Statement
1834705;1531632704;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: the only marginally complicated thing about statements is tracking the customer equity line and invoicing for the month-to-month customers, i will hand over my notes and assist you should you take the gig
1834706;1531635559;mircea_popescu;diana_coman fucking hysterical, whole package dead because some 'my_print_stacktrace' function ? printing is the death of "open source".
1834707;1531637414;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834459 << answer is no ; bitcoin is a shining example of yahoo usage of threading.
1834708;1531637414;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 13:25 brazilish: first question is: do initial sync benefits from moar cores?
1834709;1531637635;mircea_popescu; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834507 << jesus god yes. unix is not even usable w/o screen.
1834710;1531637635;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 15:09 diana_coman: ftr screen also fails and I'd rather have it than not have it but it's not a eulora dep in itself
1834711;1531638408;mircea_popescu;this is bizarre enough, http://p.bvulpes.com/ still up, but if you try and paste anything it goes dead.
1834712;1531654402;*;asciilifeform tried it just nao, seems to work
1834713;1531654878;asciilifeform;re 'screen' -- funnily enuff for many yrs asciilifeform did not use it aside from as rs232 terminal a la 'kermit'; for the absolutely fucking vital item of 'leave my bg processes alone when i disconnect', used simply 'nohup', which comes with afaik errry unix since system5
1834714;1531658469;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834346 <-- fwiw, I believe I'm also ill-equipped for this job. I'd only trust a spyked to get this right after he's delivered on at least a couple of self-directed projects, and even then... I need a wee bit more experience under my belt. on this note, /me finds http://trilema.com/2018/technology-and-governance/ to be a good reread.
1834715;1531658469;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 00:13 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834333 << I'll state for the record that I consider myself largely unqualified for the role (plus my hopper overfloweth atm)
1834716;1531661383;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: I am inclined to take the gig
1834717;1531661504;diana_coman;asciilifeform, re screen & nohup: metoo! but nowadays I do use screen a LOT
1834718;1531661608;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, go for it!
1834719;1531662918;BingoBoingo;brb, time to go for a walk
1834720;1531662954;BingoBoingo;But yes, I am on location. My name is on the fiat side paperwork. The incentives are lined up. Make Uruguay, Great Again!
1834721;1531664552;shinohai;gm #trilema http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834119 <<< Ran a x86 node 3+ years with mechanical hdd, aggression patch did keep mine within ~10 blocks always.
1834722;1531664552;a111;Logged on 2018-07-13 15:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform> shinohai: trying doesn't hurt. and iirc somebody actually got a mechanical-hdd node to stay synced more or less decently with aggression patch -> yes, I did
1834723;1531664605;shinohai;When my rockchips arrive though, i guess i'll use one of my old rusty hdd's in one just for lulz, I have like 10 now.
1834724;1531665239;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: congrats
1834725;1531665319;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834721 << for comparison -- what was it like prior to 'aggression' ?
1834726;1531665319;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 14:22 shinohai: gm #trilema http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-13#1834119 <<< Ran a x86 node 3+ years with mechanical hdd, aggression patch did keep mine within ~10 blocks always.
1834727;1531665369;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834717 << there's really not a substitute for 'screen' if you're leaving ~interactive~ cmd line processes in background (e.g. shells) , aha
1834728;1531665369;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 13:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform, re screen & nohup: metoo! but nowadays I do use screen a LOT
1834729;1531665384;shinohai;Pretty much same as I always reported, usually stayed several "days" behind, this did not improve until I purchased samsung ssd about a year ago.
1834730;1531665437;*;shinohai has always used tmux, but did use screen for some time.
1834731;1531665534;asciilifeform;incidentally, a miniature raid (i.e. harness 4 cheapo hdd to 1 usb3 cable) would be a very useful thing. which afaik unfortunately does not exist.
1834732;1531665644;shinohai;A friend of mine has one of those mediasonic mini raid boxes, i cant remember how many drives it holds.
1834733;1531665656;asciilifeform;shinohai: afaik these all use 'software' raid
1834734;1531665663;shinohai;bummer
1834735;1531665695;asciilifeform;stupidly expensive, too, for what they do.
1834736;1531665841;shinohai;Thankfully, pogo turned out to be great NAT device, I run a mech hdd in the dumb-as-bricks vertical hdd slot, and a samsung t3 portable ssd from the top usb connector.
1834737;1531665870;shinohai;SO have entire trb chain backed up in case of failure ( also www, etc)
1834738;1531665879;asciilifeform;shinohai: didja bake own nat thing for it, or used the vendor's shitware ?
1834739;1531665931;asciilifeform;shinohai: speaking of www, yours seems to be down just nao ?
1834740;1531665934;shinohai;nah, i made own setup after the arch linux install, just do a gentoo chroot once in to sort of unify my setup
1834741;1531665966;shinohai;yeah www is down for netbsd upgrade
1834742;1531665971;asciilifeform;aa
1834743;1531666040;shinohai;pogo also makes a handy local binhost, for those who don't wish to build the same 500 packages when trying new stuff on gentoo.
1834744;1531666054;asciilifeform;nat is very much a 2edged sword, just 2 or 3 nat boxen with heavy use will saturate typical GB lan switch
1834745;1531666063;asciilifeform;nas, rather
1834746;1531666133;shinohai;yeah s/NAT/NAS above
1834747;1531666553;asciilifeform;shinohai: i've found that trb state can't be effectively backed up without stopping the node ( otherwise indices turn to barf . ) how do you do yours ? periodic stops ?
1834748;1531666594;asciilifeform;and whole concept of 'backing up trb' strikes me as wrongheaded -- the most effective backup is simply a 2nd node.
1834749;1531666669;asciilifeform;a new node plugged directly in ( i.e. over lan ) to a working trb node, with 'aggression' should sync in week or 2.
1834750;1531666739;asciilifeform;( if we had the 'configurable checkpoints thing' discussed 2y ago, this would sync in 3 days or so )
1834751;1531666769;asciilifeform;i.e. at ~max speed permitted by the disk writes.
1834752;1531666828;asciilifeform;you can approximate the effect with dumpblock/eatblock.
1834753;1531666891;shinohai;asciilifeform my system is by no means perfect .... but yeah periodic stops, I only scheduled rsync for twice weekly to pogo, to minimize downtime. Never results in more than half-hour downtime.
1834754;1531666929;shinohai;Which is far better than starting from zero when hdd crashed that time and I lost whole thing xD
1834755;1531669101;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform check this out : i got a bundle which compiles to 64 bits except one lib, which compiles to 32 bit and then i get " wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 Program exited with code 0177". the configure for it manages to ignore both enable-lib64 --disable-lib32 and CFLAGS=-m64 CXXFLAGS=-m64 LDFLAGS=-m64 sets of flags. you ever heard of such ?!
1834756;1531669181;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834507 << read and enjoyed your porting process for mysql. this will be how things go. many items already have patched ebuilds in the musl-overlay, which your system is using atop traditional portage. some wont, and will need to be fixed.
1834757;1531669181;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 15:09 diana_coman: ftr screen also fails and I'd rather have it than not have it but it's not a eulora dep in itself
1834758;1531669218;mircea_popescu;i can't tell you just how fucking thrilled we are it was actually approachable in this level.
1834759;1531669231;mircea_popescu;usualyl when you end up going into codepile to ablate idiocy you discover the broken glass
1834760;1531669245;trinque;indeed, glad to see she got right through
1834761;1531669308;mircea_popescu;anyway, fwiw : mysql existing as gnat/cuntoo item (combined with its deployment in mp-wp, eulora etc) pretty much guarantees by now that tmsr db will be mysql derivative.
1834762;1531669345;mircea_popescu;if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people.
1834763;1531669370;mircea_popescu;postgres or w/e.
1834764;1531669549;trinque;musl will "break" where it refused to implement glibc feature-creep outside the posix libc standard. it's a stricter implementation.
1834765;1531669616;trinque;some of this work won't have to be done completely ab initio; there are musltronic distros out there that can at least act as source material for research, alpine and void linux for example.
1834766;1531669656;diana_coman;trinque, cheers! glad it wasn't worse there really (will see for the rest :D )
1834767;1531669719;mircea_popescu;trinque im not saying it's impossible, by any means ; but it'll have to be either done or not done, there's no "i'm not waht i do i'm what i dream". like a wedding, "anyone wanting postgres/whatever speak now or stfu fe&e"
1834768;1531669773;trinque;100% agree, and appreciate the underscoring of it. no "hobbyist approach" will work.
1834769;1531669849;trinque;to take a specific example, my mention of musl distros isn't an excuse for anyone to blindly pilfer patches and then sign because "built!!"
1834770;1531669860;mircea_popescu;great way to get whacked.
1834771;1531670354;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834748 << trb node is one of the few items that ~can't~ be backed up in the usual sense. because what you get if you just blindly copy is a shitup not a backup.
1834772;1531670354;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 14:56 asciilifeform: and whole concept of 'backing up trb' strikes me as wrongheaded -- the most effective backup is simply a 2nd node.
1834773;1531670393;mircea_popescu;bitcoin is not "blockchain technologies" shitheadery, it's precisely ~adnotated data~, lisp style. there's no meaning to it outside of context.
1834774;1531670510;mircea_popescu;and apropos of nothing/everything : "  Magic:   7f 45 4c 46 02 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 " << this fucking annoys me.
1834775;1531670724;deedbot;http://trinque.org/2018/07/15/deedbot-wallet-on-chain-operations-resumed/ << trinque - Deedbot wallet on-chain operations resumed
1834776;1531671015;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834755 << pretty interesting -- what proggy was this ?
1834777;1531671015;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 15:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check this out : i got a bundle which compiles to 64 bits except one lib, which compiles to 32 bit and then i get " wrong ELF class: ELFCLASS32 Program exited with code 0177". the configure for it manages to ignore both enable-lib64 --disable-lib32 and CFLAGS=-m64 CXXFLAGS=-m64 LDFLAGS=-m64 sets of flags. you ever heard of such ?!
1834778;1531671087;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834762 << when i get own cuntoo test machine up, will test postgres also ( phuctor is currently baked on postgres, though in principle it would also work on mysql etc., simply never yet tried )
1834779;1531671087;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 15:42 mircea_popescu: if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people.
1834780;1531671199;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834771 << from ~cold~ node it backs up as well as anything else . point was that i can't think of any good reason to do it that way, nodes ( correctly-built, i.e. with aggression ) are self-replicating reasonably quickly
1834781;1531671199;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 15:59 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834748 << trb node is one of the few items that ~can't~ be backed up in the usual sense. because what you get if you just blindly copy is a shitup not a backup.
1834782;1531671243;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834764 << oh hm trinque already tried postgres ? it barfed ? where ?
1834783;1531671243;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 15:45 trinque: musl will "break" where it refused to implement glibc feature-creep outside the posix libc standard. it's a stricter implementation.
1834784;1531671273;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834774 << where was this ?
1834785;1531671273;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 16:01 mircea_popescu: and apropos of nothing/everything : "  Magic:   7f 45 4c 46 02 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 " << this fucking annoys me.
1834786;1531671289;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform standard readelf output
1834787;1531671298;asciilifeform;aa
1834788;1531671308;mircea_popescu;anyway, it turns out the lib built ~is~ 64 bit, contrary to my assumption that error messages are useful.
1834789;1531671315;mircea_popescu;so strike all that.
1834790;1531671465;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw were you building with trinque's gcc or with ave1 's ?
1834791;1531671486;mircea_popescu;vintage 4.x
1834792;1531671500;asciilifeform;well they're both 'vintage 4.x'
1834793;1531671509;mircea_popescu;right, but this is mine.
1834794;1531671514;asciilifeform;aa
1834795;1531671751;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834764 << trinque do you have a list of items you observed to be broken under musl ? or is this still in the works
1834796;1531671751;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 15:45 trinque: musl will "break" where it refused to implement glibc feature-creep outside the posix libc standard. it's a stricter implementation.
1834797;1531671807;asciilifeform;the 2 major ones i specifically recall in logs were 'screen' and emacs
1834798;1531671890;mircea_popescu;though it's arguable emacs works in any sense.
1834799;1531671901;asciilifeform;[insert oblig emacs thread here]
1834800;1531671955;mircea_popescu;anyway, i expect neither gtk nor kde work, and i expect contrary to postgresetc discussion above, nobody likes any of 'em even vaguely enough to import.
1834801;1531671971;mircea_popescu;but should probably try X at some point i guess.
1834802;1531671972;asciilifeform;i can't picture anybody shedding a tear for gtk/kde/etc
1834803;1531672002;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform just as long as i can still use cuntoo to show cunts their cunts too!
1834804;1531672013;asciilifeform;plain x oughta suffice, for this.
1834805;1531672021;mircea_popescu;if it works. which...
1834806;1531672048;mircea_popescu;video drivers etc.
1834807;1531672071;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: kernel mods dun use userland libc, so this should in principle not be affected by muslism
1834808;1531672119;mircea_popescu;i guess we'll find out soon enough.
1834809;1531672141;asciilifeform;will be interesting to put cuntoo on box with vga card and see if, for instance, any www browser can be made to run.
1834810;1531672184;mircea_popescu;re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833740 the above http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834793 is 4.4.3
1834811;1531672184;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 11:18 asciilifeform: trinque's gcc, btw, is exactly as was printed on the crate, x86_64-gentoo-linux-musl 4.9.4
1834812;1531672184;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 16:18 mircea_popescu: right, but this is mine.
1834813;1531672203;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and by "any" you mean which ?
1834814;1531672241;mircea_popescu;i've conducted a review of extant browsers ; outside of opera ~none work worth a shit ; and in the lulziest of manners, eg, firefox 45 crashes about 4.5 times more frequently than firefox 10. and so on.
1834815;1531672242;asciilifeform;i meant 'any'. afaik the only remaining graphical www thing that builds even on asciilifeform's ban-flagged gentoo ( not even speaking of musl ) is old firefox.
1834816;1531672276;asciilifeform;i dun know much about ye olde closedsores opera -- if it was built statically, it oughta run on cuntoo
1834817;1531672284;asciilifeform;if not -- then guaranteed bomb
1834818;1531672284;mircea_popescu;kinda my point.
1834819;1531672337;asciilifeform;( i assumed mircea_popescu was speaking of ye olde norwegian ministry of telecom or wherever 1MB closed x86 opera, rather than the 'modern' abortion )
1834820;1531672423;asciilifeform;commercial/closed binariolade 'for linux' will not run on cuntoo unless it was built statically, but prolly erryone realizes this.
1834821;1531672615;mircea_popescu;afaik they were, even as far as the 10.x series ; but this i've never put to the cuntoo test.
1834822;1531672671;mircea_popescu;here included by reference, the "acid3 test" lulz etc. who even remembers 2007 anymoar.
1834823;1531672671;*;asciilifeform fires up box with opera 12.16 -- confirmed static
1834824;1531672730;asciilifeform;so yes you could run it. tho on x86/amd64 strictly, naturally, afaik there was never a build for arm etc
1834825;1531672743;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform iirc that's the last one where it can even be claimed to be a thing, afterwards moved to being skin on chrome.
1834826;1531672757;asciilifeform;aha, sorta why i had it lying around
1834827;1531672762;asciilifeform;afaik it was the very last.
1834828;1531672789;mircea_popescu;imo that's the correct cut here : not "oh, is it the 1995 safari-clone by nowegians" but "oh, is it the thing before or after google gutted it"
1834829;1531672862;asciilifeform;google et al not only gutted it, but arranged for the orig src to be buried in cement, for the obv reason.
1834830;1531672876;mircea_popescu;also imported by reference, all the "oh, we're moving to webkit, it's so great and good and btw folks, totally A TECHNICAL DECISION OK!!!" then google drops webkit moves on to their in-house shitpile, oprea "dev" team is like... o yeah totally!
1834831;1531672884;mircea_popescu;this cock, it tastes so very technical!
1834832;1531672903;mircea_popescu;doesn't it amstan , you dirty little whore daughter of a stupid mother.
1834833;1531673448;asciilifeform;in other heathen wtf's, https://archive.is/Ovauh >> 'Covert radio communications: a viable tactic for international terrorists?'
1834834;1531673721;asciilifeform;( d00d, apparently, 'professional' doctrine/ops handbooks/etc spewer for usg )
1834835;1531673752;asciilifeform;'Hank Prunckun is associate professor of intelligence analysis at the Australian Graduate School of Policing and Security, Charles Sturt University, Sydney' blah etc.
1834836;1531673818;asciilifeform;OfficiallyEndorsed by hitler!11 ( https://archive.is/wrqK2 )
1834837;1531674490;mircea_popescu;good thing they got trilema to crib
1834838;1531674759;asciilifeform;vintage, '14 lulgem, cribbing '13 trilema.
1834839;1531677417;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/lamb-aspic/ << Trilema - Lamb aspic
1834840;1531677727;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in the amusement files, MistressCrow20  20F Mistress 29m "How about YOU drop everything and kiss the ground in front of my feet? Im not kidding at all." LordMPofTMSR "No, because you're female."
1834841;1531677736;mircea_popescu;in carlin's own words, "that tends to hold them for about half an hour."
1834842;1531677827;mircea_popescu;oh, and to piss off trinque ave1 asciilifeform whoever else : quote last line of  ldd --version on those vintage gccs ? :D
1834843;1531680598;BingoBoingo;<trinque> some of this work won't have to be done completely ab initio; there are musltronic distros out there that can at least act as source material for research, alpine and void linux for example. <<As far as I can tell Alpine is a musl build of gentoo, comparatively clean. Void on the other hand is more like a tampon. Bloody inside and out
1834844;1531681878;mod6;Pizarro's bitcoins have been sent to my deedbot account in the amount of: 6.21445021 BTC
1834845;1531682036;mod6;!!pay jurov 0.46713262
1834846;1531682039;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mQfFE/?raw=true
1834847;1531682270;mod6;!!v 43D6BFBE080DEEA6D24BCF04F12AFCEF9521797DC62C0B3749E97370D586A36C
1834848;1531682273;deedbot;mod6 paid jurov 0.46713262
1834849;1531682282;mod6;!!ledger
1834850;1531682286;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/nZCBq/?raw=true
1834851;1531682574;mod6;Remaining Pizarro Balance: 5.83211428 BTC
1834852;1531682719;mod6;ignore this ^ some of my previous balance was added into that.
1834853;1531682753;mod6;!Qcalc 6.21445021 - 0.46713262
1834854;1531682753;lobbesbot;mod6: 5.74731759
1834855;1531682789;mod6;This is the current Pizarro BTC balance ^.
1834856;1531682936;mod6;In other news, BingoBoingo has accepted the position as Pizarro Manager, and officially will take over in this role after the August Statement is published in the first few days of September.  Congrats to BingoBoingo!
1834857;1531683132;mircea_popescu;check out this beauty : dpkg -S /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 > dpkg: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 not found. meanwhile $ ldd /usr/bin/glxinfo | grep "libGL" > libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/mesa/libGL.so.1 (0x00007f129e644000)
1834858;1531683226;mircea_popescu;it... maybe exists.
1834859;1531683266;BingoBoingo;Well, what would the GNU is gnu/lumix be without gnostic dilemmas?
1834860;1531699789;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/french-police-deploy-tear-gas-to-contain-riots-after-african-world-cup-victory/ << Qntra - French Police Deploy Tear Gas To Contain Riots After African World Cup Victory
1834861;1531700023;mircea_popescu;ahaha
1834862;1531700964;BingoBoingo;Cooking steaks for the Peruana to celebrate the end of nationality as a thing
1834863;1531701012;mircea_popescu;sizzle dad shizzle!
1834864;1531701013;BingoBoingo;And the Uruguayos at the hostel were all in favor of unifying with Croatia before 2022
1834865;1531701053;mircea_popescu;lol
1834866;1531701125;BingoBoingo;Both cuntries are within 1,000,000 warm bodies of each other
1834867;1531701133;BingoBoingo;Both have lots of cows
1834868;1531701242;mircea_popescu;better tit in republica oriental.
1834869;1531701252;mircea_popescu;tehn again, better tall in lesser serbia
1834870;1531701294;BingoBoingo;Unlike the attempt at a maritime adventure, this effort has time on its side
1834871;1531701534;BingoBoingo;And for the logs the steaks in question are 402 grams of entrecot, cost of 130 pesos
1834872;1531704099;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834795 << nah, no list yet. I've yet to successfully build a lisp, but alpine has sbcl, so I don't wager it's impossible.
1834873;1531704099;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 16:22 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834764 << trinque do you have a list of items you observed to be broken under musl ? or is this still in the works
1834874;1531707487;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-2/ << esthlos - Log Reading, Week 2
1834875;1531714163;mircea_popescu;in other upbeat news, i finally figured out esthlos 's byline. leibniz huh.
1834876;1531714434;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-13#1431516 << in "totally forgotten" histories of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834762 ; who ever knew the shape of today is the necessary result of the failures of thrive of yesteryear.
1834877;1531714434;a111;Logged on 2016-03-13 16:22 mircea_popescu: nice work with the html parser, how's it going ?
1834878;1531714434;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 15:42 mircea_popescu: if anyone has serious issues with this better get a portage candidate up asap so it can be imported when cuntoo comes, because otherwise it's as dead as the woodchipped people.
1834879;1531714697;mircea_popescu;lmao, "diogenes of the single candle", what gems lie burried in teh logs!
1834880;1531725781;mircea_popescu;http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-1/comment-page-1/#comment-38 << check out teh trilema avatars thing working natively. win.
1834881;1531749593;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834857 << hm i thought you were building eulora ~back end~ . or does even backend use opengl somehow.
1834882;1531749593;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 19:32 mircea_popescu: check out this beauty : dpkg -S /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 > dpkg: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 not found. meanwhile $ ldd /usr/bin/glxinfo | grep "libGL" > libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/mesa/libGL.so.1 (0x00007f129e644000)
1834883;1531749635;diana_coman;asciilifeform, that was from his client
1834884;1531749639;asciilifeform;aaa
1834885;1531749664;asciilifeform;i was reading through cuntoo lens still.
1834886;1531749677;diana_coman;and no, although we are atm still stuck on using cs-boost of sorts, at least no opengl on serverside
1834887;1531749797;diana_coman;oh, and in good news it turns out that older version of screen compiles fine on proto-cuntoo, hooray!
1834888;1531750027;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834842 << ave1's builder doesn't seem to produce a ldd .
1834889;1531750027;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 18:03 mircea_popescu: oh, and to piss off trinque ave1 asciilifeform whoever else : quote last line of  ldd --version on those vintage gccs ? :D
1834890;1531750055;asciilifeform;( it doesn't come with gcc, it's a drepperism )
1834891;1531750088;asciilifeform;( in pertinent vintage lulz : http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-06#1089921 )
1834892;1531750088;a111;Logged on 2015-04-06 08:34 mircea_popescu: "In this article I am going to show you how to create an executable that runs arbitrary code if it's examined by `ldd`. I have also written a social engineering scenario on how you can get your sysadmin to unknowingly hand you his privileges."
1834893;1531750141;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834887 << which one ?
1834894;1531750141;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 14:03 diana_coman: oh, and in good news it turns out that older version of screen compiles fine on proto-cuntoo, hooray!
1834895;1531750172;diana_coman;asciilifeform, 4.4.0 works
1834896;1531750179;asciilifeform;neato.
1834897;1531750903;asciilifeform;btw mircea_popescu , even if one were to build ldd on cuntoo, the only thing it'll ever output on locally-build bins is 'not a dynamic executable' .
1834898;1531750910;asciilifeform;*built
1834899;1531750987;asciilifeform;trinque: plox correct me if i'm wrong re subj
1834900;1531751028;asciilifeform;( possibly we aren't quite there yet, and it still links something dynamically? )
1834901;1531751043;mod6;mornin'
1834902;1531751133;diana_coman;he was on ubuntu
1834903;1531751272;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834848 << In case it wasn't clear what this was for, was for DC payment for July 2018.
1834904;1531751272;a111;Logged on 2018-07-15 19:17 deedbot: mod6 paid jurov 0.46713262
1834905;1531754536;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was building a client for it.
1834906;1531754580;mircea_popescu;it was the lulz of all time, /me attempted demonstrative "here, you stupid bitch, this is how computers work" only for the thing to explode, spent day fighting obscura before had build back in working order.
1834907;1531754585;diana_coman;has anyone else run into this sort of thing before? checking if pkg-config recognizes zlib... yes; checking for zlib-config... no
1834908;1531754609;mircea_popescu;diana_coman yes, me above lol. "is there a libgl ? yes. is it located somewhere ? no."
1834909;1531754625;diana_coman;basically I have zlib installed and I even checked: it IS in /lib but ./configure doesn't consider it fine
1834910;1531754645;diana_coman;and for added lol, same configure on current server reports same there BUT it says zlib is fine, ugh
1834911;1531754663;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, it's not even that, it's not a location thing apparently
1834912;1531754672;mircea_popescu;hm\
1834913;1531754769;mircea_popescu;a damn, no ldd at all on zpf ? this is impressive.
1834914;1531755235;diana_coman;oh, and similar issue as above for...curl; wtf
1834915;1531755260;diana_coman;I guess I'll need to dig into the configure script to figure this one out if nobody saw it before, huh
1834916;1531755649;asciilifeform;i suspect that 'only tip of iceberg' re autoconf breakage has been seen so far.
1834917;1531755661;mircea_popescu;they may not even have the packages. might get away with copying something, but...
1834918;1531755673;asciilifeform;autoconf is a massive pile of shit.
1834919;1531755800;diana_coman;asciilifeform, given the amount of those around it would seem we are on VERY fertile ground here
1834920;1531755849;mircea_popescu;in other news, here's something i want to put before the lordship :
1834921;1531755849;mircea_popescu;as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.
1834922;1531755849;mircea_popescu;this release paradigm has the advantages that 1. permits us to control binaries, which means stuff like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834888 (which i'm very much impressed with, btw) ; 2. permits to reserve some interest for the author, because the strategic thinking over at minigame is that we'll want client competition (from skinning all the way to all the way) and remuneration by installs (hence all that hash dance in
1834923;1531755849;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 14:07 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-15#1834842 << ave1's builder doesn't seem to produce a ldd .
1834924;1531755852;mircea_popescu; the new c-s protocol) ;
1834925;1531755854;mircea_popescu;3. very clearly quashes the idiocy of rms-ism AND ers-ism ("open source" bla bla), and makes the strong political statement that indeed there is a difference between nose breathers and mouthbreathers and so on.
1834926;1531755857;mircea_popescu;the evident disadvantage is that this only works if we can rely on l1 to keep a secret ; which means things (such as, that it can't be as big, for instance).
1834927;1531755860;mircea_popescu;thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )
1834928;1531755911;asciilifeform;hm i must've missed something -- keep what secret
1834929;1531755932;mircea_popescu;the sources.
1834930;1531755996;asciilifeform;let's momentarily suppose this were a good idea. how wouldja arrange, say, trinque's packages repo, to work for members only ?
1834931;1531756014;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying this is for everyone.
1834932;1531756042;asciilifeform;sure. but i can picture scenarios where this makes sense, and would like to see the 'unsexy', practical pov of 'how' elaborated in the l0gz.
1834933;1531756082;mircea_popescu;i don't specifically know whether this would work well for systems work. but we're starting this discussion with a ~client~. 99% of people WANT the binary in thew first place.
1834934;1531756084;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, it's dubious that you really can keep source code secret; sure, hurdles help but...
1834935;1531756122;mircea_popescu;diana_coman this depends. "in general" it's dubious people can keep sexual secrets ; and yet women managed to keep mine from betas for many many years.
1834936;1531756127;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it isn't impossible to keep a seekrit, but proposition re doing so to a proggy that has to run on colo'd boxen ( in many cases outside of festung pizarro, even ) is dubious imho
1834937;1531756129;mircea_popescu;the key is "keep from whom".
1834938;1531756215;mircea_popescu;!!rated Mocky
1834939;1531756215;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated Mocky 3 at 2018/05/21 06:31:29 << Mocky Habeeb. Wrote a book on Amazon DB ; works for infraWise (which is pretty lulzy, but don't hold it against him).
1834940;1531756225;asciilifeform;even outside of coloism -- e.g. google kept the troo cr50 sores 'seekrit' ; didn't prevent http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-25#1829533
1834941;1531756225;a111;Logged on 2018-06-25 21:45 asciilifeform: (1) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_ro_sig.png (2) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_hitler_enforcer.png (3) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_hitler_enforcement_businessend.png (4) http://www.loper-os.org/pub/c101pa/ida/cr50_fritz_pinned_pubs.png
1834942;1531756250;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but this isn't either 1 nor 2 nor 3.
1834943;1531756289;mircea_popescu;!!key ave1
1834944;1531756290;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/57EE94EA6F2049A47DAFA8568F4CE8F777BC59F9.asc
1834945;1531756298;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, suppose for a minute that someone not in l1 etc comes with a reasonably-close copy of one of those secret-code clients; does that mean l1 leaked or what?
1834946;1531756314;mircea_popescu;it means the author has a decent claim to stand on.
1834947;1531756323;asciilifeform;i guess the part i dun grasp, is what exactly mircea_popescu would wish to accomplish by making a proprietary proggy & distributing src to anointed folx
1834948;1531756323;mircea_popescu;and we will have to make some kind of answer to it.
1834949;1531756343;diana_coman;a decent claim to being original author of that code or to what?
1834950;1531756360;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't aim, not to accomplish nor to anything. but i wrote it down! by numbers! what i imagine the outcomes to be.
1834951;1531756377;asciilifeform;diana_coman: deedbot gives iron pill against disputes of priority, without keeping any kind of seekrit
1834952;1531756378;mircea_popescu;diana_coman to whatever he wants to pursue. be it "you fucking assholes" or whatever else.
1834953;1531756386;mircea_popescu;"mp is a poopyhead" i guess.
1834954;1531756432;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i dun have any ideological allergy to 'proprietary proggy', but must point out that the historical examples are uninspiring, pretty much erryone who was specifically trying to win from limiting distribution of sores, did not win, quite the opposite.
1834955;1531756447;phf;asciilifeform: a side point is that we have existing proprietary proggies, that are right now extreme cases of "bus factor". deedbot, phuctor, etc.
1834956;1531756455;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I know, I'm just trying to figure out what this would mean
1834957;1531756458;asciilifeform;and it has 0 to do with 'million fly eyes', but with simply the futility .
1834958;1531756473;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, ah, that helps actually - I think I'm getting a better idea of what you're aiming at
1834959;1531756482;asciilifeform;phf: phuctor was stolen, wholesale, complete with iron it ran on, no fewer than twice. usg still dun have , afaik, a working clone.
1834960;1531756489;mircea_popescu;phf i do not believe the bus factor is even remotely important there.
1834961;1531756516;mircea_popescu;kakobrekla got hit by a bus, it hurt ~nothing.
1834962;1531756532;phf;mircea_popescu: that was a markov chain comment, that came out of "we already have proprietary code"
1834963;1531756581;mircea_popescu;i do not presently believe it is ~possible~ to not to ; idiotic socialistoidisms aside. and no, i don't think the world, or even the garbage bin, of the "idealistic" "visionary" nonsense, either.
1834964;1531756596;asciilifeform;phf: observe that using mechanisms created by dead people is ~very~ expensive, and seldom worth it. and they do not magically return to life by virtue of other folx having a raw copy of sores.
1834965;1531756617;mircea_popescu;"oh, the code belongs to the people". things can't belong to things incapable of ownership. which is why the stars belong to me, not me to mother earth or w/e is the american indian femview.
1834966;1531756654;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform exactly ; in which vein one'd much rather have the original precious cuntlets that did it than the original symbolix.
1834967;1531756659;phf;well, it's kind of at the core of tmsr, that king lear starts with a folly
1834968;1531756688;asciilifeform;phf: in my particular case, phuctor backend is unpublished specifically because i do not want to encourage people to build on top of it. when i am killed, i'd hope that if folx still feel a desire for a phuctor they will take what asciilifeform ~publicly~ wrote on subj, and make a superior one, rather than trying to maintain the old ball of hack.
1834969;1531756692;mircea_popescu;!!key lobbes
1834970;1531756694;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/3320BCA7825525AD077203C331F36D29A4D93652.asc
1834971;1531756714;mircea_popescu;!!key spyked
1834972;1531756716;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/0x541A976BB5FC4B455D7FBC61BDAE9D051A3D3B95.asc
1834973;1531756762;asciilifeform;phf: the pov that programmingism is a kind of tard reservation ~specifically because~ of the ease of reusing ancient src, is imho defensible.
1834974;1531756861;asciilifeform;at the same time, keeping secrets ~for other people~ is very costly.
1834975;1531756888;mircea_popescu;ave1 lobbes spyked http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yTjUg/?raw=true
1834976;1531756897;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform explain the cost ?
1834977;1531756904;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, there is of course the fact that l1 is neither for life nor perhaps yet all that difficult to get in and out - I don't know whether this is a l1 matter or a s.mg board matter
1834978;1531756923;mircea_popescu;but just because one's out does it mean one's now an asshole ?
1834979;1531756952;mircea_popescu;yes, obviously, putting any sort of depending burden upon the l1 means it'll mean more than less. but how much do we want it to mean in the first place ?
1834980;1531756953;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the cost -- 'opposability' -- mircea_popescu gives me a magic proggy, nao i have to guard it and be answerable for loss
1834981;1531756955;diana_coman;it doesn't automatically mean that; but if it turns out yes, it's the client's author that is left out to dry, no?
1834982;1531756986;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform a) there's no practical possibilty for collective answerable ; b) as discussed in previous thread (when you were trying to make up contest rules), it's not possible to prove the owner himself didn't leak.
1834983;1531756994;mircea_popescu;diana_coman yes.
1834984;1531757029;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sure . but what does it then mean to ask someone to keep a secret, if even verifying the keeping of the promise is impossible ( much less 'enforce' ) ?
1834985;1531757041;mircea_popescu;that you're dealing with a human.
1834986;1531757063;mircea_popescu;that's how you fuck women, yes ? they keep secrets and the verifying is impossible ?
1834987;1531757074;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, q really is why l1 ? basically what does l1 have to do with eulora directly?
1834988;1531757079;asciilifeform;imho dealing in signed material obviates whatever problem of 'am i dealing with human'
1834989;1531757084;asciilifeform;i dun see what seekrecy adds.
1834990;1531757096;mircea_popescu;diana_coman that part is coincidental ; it just happened that the first candidate for testing this paradigm happened to be owned by minigame.
1834991;1531757105;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you don't take my meaning.
1834992;1531757117;asciilifeform;possibly not?
1834993;1531757141;asciilifeform;let's rephrase the q -- to date , eulora published client src ; what did it lose thereby ?
1834994;1531757162;mircea_popescu;i don't expect it lost anything. what did it gain ?
1834995;1531757163;asciilifeform;did e.g. 'blizzard' take it and make own fraudulent pseudo-eulora ?
1834996;1531757181;mircea_popescu;well it can't, server is the heart of things.
1834997;1531757193;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it gained whatever cost was saved by not screwing around with encrypted downloads or whatever other futile attempts to make water unwet
1834998;1531757226;mircea_popescu;encrypted downloads ?
1834999;1531757246;mircea_popescu;are you talking to what i'm saying or to what some other guy mighv'e said that was also an idiot ?
1835000;1531757267;asciilifeform;i don't specifically know how mircea_popescu proposes to limit distribution of src . but , say, l1-ciphered encyclicals would count
1835001;1531757296;mircea_popescu;how is the described process cost anything ? i dun get it. because deedbot ends up storing tons of loc ?
1835002;1531757324;asciilifeform;illusions have a cost.
1835003;1531757334;asciilifeform;'3 can keep a seekrit if 2 are dead'(tm)(r)
1835004;1531757394;mircea_popescu;but what is the illusion ?
1835005;1531757466;diana_coman;asciilifeform, as I understand it, this is first and foremost a political statement; the gains are not from "oooh, you don't know my ugly code"
1835006;1531757475;asciilifeform;the illusion that something given to, e.g., 7 people, is reliably in confidence . the next kako or whoever, releases the seekrit at a time of his choosing, for maximum damage, and you get to run around making faces like usg
1835007;1531757494;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform really ?! we have all sorts of things in confidence i thought!
1835008;1531757563;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is possible to have confidence with individual people , but imho a mistake to operate on same model with group.
1835009;1531757574;asciilifeform;even if the arithmetic is on the surface transitive.
1835010;1531757575;mircea_popescu;nono, i didn't mean you and me. i meant, l1.
1835011;1531757585;mircea_popescu;like i dunno, don't up all idiots so they shiot the log. thart's not a confidence ?
1835012;1531757634;asciilifeform;not the same item at all as 'keep the magic coad from heathens' is it.
1835013;1531757662;mircea_popescu;but the "keep magic coad from heathens" is your contribution to this discussion!
1835014;1531757694;asciilifeform;i'm struggling and failing to come up with a scenario where it doesn't ultimately land you in the same hot pot of ridiculous boiling oil as usg boils in.
1835015;1531757732;mircea_popescu;but we've done l1 releases in the past, neh ?
1835016;1531757794;asciilifeform;relatively compact -- and, more importantly -- short-lived -- seekrits -- are practical. e.g. i send BingoBoingo a qntra item, gpggrammed so as not to get scooped by heathens. next hour it gets published openly.
1835017;1531757812;mircea_popescu;so what oil ?
1835018;1531757849;asciilifeform;organizations that try to keep long-lived secrets, inside groups with changing membership, are more or less the star clowns in the heathen circus.
1835019;1531757882;mircea_popescu;this much is true.
1835020;1531757961;asciilifeform;crypto is a thing; secrecy has a place, like lubrication oil; but you wouldn't build engine that relies on being soaked in oil at all times, errywhere, steering wheel , pedals and seats included
1835021;1531758021;mircea_popescu;well... there are engines that work by soaking. moreover what is this, metaphore exercise hour ?
1835022;1531758075;asciilifeform;if you dun care for the metaphor -- there's the old and continuing promisetronics discussion.
1835023;1531758150;mircea_popescu;but whatg is being promised ?
1835024;1531758178;asciilifeform;the confidentiality of $magicsrc, presumably
1835025;1531758233;mircea_popescu;let's re-read! http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834922 & http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834925
1835026;1531758233;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: this release paradigm has the advantages that 1. permits us to control binaries, which means stuff like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834888 (which i'm very much impressed with, btw) ; 2. permits to reserve some interest for the author, because the strategic thinking over at minigame is that we'll want client competition (from skinning all the way to all the way) and remuneration by installs (hence all that hash dance in
1835027;1531758233;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: 3. very clearly quashes the idiocy of rms-ism AND ers-ism ("open source" bla bla), and makes the strong political statement that indeed there is a difference between nose breathers and mouthbreathers and so on.
1835028;1531758245;mircea_popescu;now, do you dispute that it permits control of the released binaries ?
1835029;1531758274;asciilifeform;same way as questions of compensation are currently handled in l1 -- word of honour
1835030;1531758353;mircea_popescu;but i mean... lookit, the author will make a static binary ; and who the fuck is going to make a drepper systemd thing ?
1835031;1531758364;asciilifeform;nobody
1835032;1531758370;mircea_popescu;so then ? is this not a gain ?
1835033;1531758387;asciilifeform;what is gained from having there exist a drepperized systemd thing ? or what am i missing
1835034;1531758421;mircea_popescu;dude. situation 1, as currently : you release code, mp like an idiot compiles it on ubuntu, jnow your code exists as a drepper mockery of itself. as far as the machine can tell, you asciilifeform are an idiot.
1835035;1531758443;mircea_popescu;situation 2, as contemplated : you release a binary, which mp like an idiot runs, and that's that. the machine no longer has cause to think alf's an idiot.
1835036;1531758455;asciilifeform;for all i know, somewhere there exists a d00d who tried to build e.g. trb on a vax. and thinks asciilifeform is idjit, because it dun go. how's that skin off my back.
1835037;1531758483;mircea_popescu;do you not care about the machines AT ALL ?!
1835038;1531758499;mircea_popescu;they too are someone's children, you know.
1835039;1531758502;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: releasing binaries does not create this guarantee. even static elf, when put on a box where linus et al (or his successor) see it fit to subtly change the abi, will bomb, and not necessarily immediately. and i'ma still 'be idiot'
1835040;1531758513;mircea_popescu;we're not in the business of guarantee.
1835041;1531758546;asciilifeform;sure, but i gotta point out that the proposed win from distributing bins, is illusory.
1835042;1531758559;asciilifeform;the sad folx in microshit-land feel this on their skins ~daily
1835043;1531758574;trinque;you use bins currently, whenever bootstrapping a compiler
1835044;1531758586;asciilifeform;trinque: this is to be seen as ~open problem~, not 'fact of life'
1835045;1531758600;trinque;the open problems are facts of life today
1835046;1531758612;asciilifeform;trinque: i fully expect that when we finally get the hell off c , there'll be no moar of 'distributing bootstrap bins'
1835047;1531758653;mircea_popescu;really ?!
1835048;1531758655;trinque;meanwhile there may be place for a solution better than "go use satan's gcc / gentoo livecd / etc to bootstrap
1835049;1531758657;mircea_popescu;why the fuck not ?
1835050;1531758675;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: because it is a wholly unnecessary point of weakness.
1835051;1531758684;mircea_popescu;i have to fucking compile every thing the 9000th time, i can't just put binary images on my 9001th rockchip ?!
1835052;1531758690;mircea_popescu;nobody does this ; you don't either.
1835053;1531758706;mircea_popescu;"sure, ima totally take 88 hours to emerge world, AGAIN"
1835054;1531758729;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do you not see a diff b/w bins that were built under your control, and those where not ?
1835055;1531758730;*;trinque had the cuntoo builder set aside bins for exactly this reason
1835056;1531758749;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but these cotemplated here are built under control, of the only human invoplved in the relationship!
1835057;1531758767;mircea_popescu;that's why i'm not fucking concerned of "l1 leaks". who the fuck are they going to leak TO ? the goats ?
1835058;1531758768;trinque;and then asked ave1 for binary-reproducible gcc as the logical next step
1835059;1531758798;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if 'who leak to, goats?' then why spend even a penny on effort to pass around srcballs 'in confidence' ?
1835060;1531758805;trinque;process might be to have l1 build, gossip about the hashes of build they produced, at which point who cares who built, that's the item
1835061;1531758820;asciilifeform;that's asciilifeform position nao -- i'ma post whatever, because why exactly not. FG src and schem is public, etc.
1835062;1531758824;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because of the human element involved.
1835063;1531758842;mircea_popescu;and no, you've not published phuctor, nor liked the idea. shall i quote you or can you quote yourself ?
1835064;1531758860;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: earlier in this thread i did shed some light re why.
1835065;1531758881;mircea_popescu;nevermind "shed some light". the point fucking remains, as long as secrets are kept secrets are kept, what the fuck.
1835066;1531758908;mircea_popescu;for all you know, BingoBoingo hooked up the kvm while you slept and mod6 read your postgres code and is still laughing.
1835067;1531758922;mircea_popescu;yet somehow ~there~ you see why this is not much of a concern.
1835068;1531758990;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i suspect the folx who stole phuctor v.1 and v.2 src discovered, and prolly not much surprise to anybody else, phuctor is not a fully automatic mechanism. it requires asciilifeform's hands , applied on fairly regular basis, to function correctly. sorta like phf's logtron, for instance.
1835069;1531759023;mircea_popescu;this is no sort of life, incidentally. it's what the old "engineering" used to be, "construct complicated looms that are friable and hard to maintain so as to have an eat."
1835070;1531759044;asciilifeform;aha, with the steam valves.
1835071;1531759052;mircea_popescu;but even that aside, i still don't see wtf is wrong with "we'll produce sane binaries instead of waiting for whatever shit-kit rando luser has to spit out whatever it does".
1835072;1531759061;mircea_popescu;seems altogether an improvement of overal object code being run.
1835073;1531759083;asciilifeform;the other pertinent distinction is that phuctor is not meant as a building block to use inside other systems. pretty much whole rationale for asciilifeform's refusal to publish whole thing, is specifically to prevent/delay such attempts at use.
1835074;1531759103;asciilifeform;it is specifically ~not~ meant to be modified and used as building block by folx who aren't asciilifeform .
1835075;1531759104;mircea_popescu;but clowns! boiling oil! etc!
1835076;1531759124;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, how do we "control binaries" though?
1835077;1531759132;phf;(my logotron has not been that way since the fateful burning man of 2 years ago, now "maintenance" involves adapting to changing landscape of e.g. freenode, etc.)
1835078;1531759163;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: observe that so far, at least as visible from my tower, i've succeeded in this. whereas if i had distributed the whole kit in february of 2016, to kako et al, chances are that wouldn't.
1835079;1531759163;mircea_popescu;diana_coman well because say mocky does the release. ima frown if his release sucks, and he doesn't want that ; and his toolchain is to be expected better than literally rando camwhore's, "i dunno how kleopatra works". neh ?
1835080;1531759189;diana_coman;yes, but how do you even know that the binary he releases is really the code he deeded?
1835081;1531759193;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but i ~didn't propose that~ in 2016, either, did i.
1835082;1531759207;mircea_popescu;diana_coman you see the code he deeded and see can't reproduce. so now you two have something to talk about
1835083;1531759215;mircea_popescu;which, i'm told, is the true basis of all happy marriages.
1835084;1531759228;diana_coman;lolol
1835085;1531759230;mircea_popescu;well ?
1835086;1531759246;asciilifeform;as it currently stands, nobody can reproduce ~any bins.
1835087;1531759246;diana_coman;well, if he releases for windows, who the fuck see can't reproduce
1835088;1531759260;diana_coman;and asciilifeform was faster
1835089;1531759260;mircea_popescu;what can i tell you.
1835090;1531759267;mircea_popescu;i didn't make this world ; i'm just trying to live in it.
1835091;1531759305;asciilifeform;the other pertinent fact is that we don't have 'eternal' bins until we have a pinned-down kernel, and the latter requires pinned-down iron.
1835092;1531759312;mircea_popescu;and yes, reproducible builds ~WILL~ happen. but guess what ? if and only if something actually depends on it.
1835093;1531759313;asciilifeform;and we dun have iron-makin' yet.
1835094;1531759440;mircea_popescu;diana_coman note that "binary identity" is not even necessary a premise. you can go "hey shithead, why the fuck are you linking dynamic mysql when there's been a static one for five years". or w/e.
1835095;1531759452;mircea_popescu;~something to talk about~. it can be many things, and most not even contemplable at the onset.
1835096;1531759464;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the correct pill re 'dynamic' is simply to cut the dynamic loader nonsense out of cuntoo once and for all.
1835097;1531759474;asciilifeform;try 'dynamicing' and yer bin simply won't run.
1835098;1531759481;mircea_popescu;and the correct pill re understanding is to cut the examples out once and for all!
1835099;1531759485;mircea_popescu;wtf, i was giving an example.
1835100;1531759506;*;diana_coman is going to think some more on this
1835101;1531759512;mircea_popescu;and also, consider : eulora client is ~definitionally~ for all comers. these people won't run your toolchain anyway.
1835102;1531759521;asciilifeform;reproducible bins are The Right Thing, but it is impossible to explain ~why~ outside of the context of hand-auditability.
1835103;1531759534;asciilifeform;sorta why asciilifeform pushed ave1 to cut down the gnat libs.
1835104;1531759537;mircea_popescu;there's no need to explain anything to anyone outside these here walls.
1835105;1531759543;mircea_popescu;nor will there ever be.
1835106;1531759551;asciilifeform;speaking of 'explain' in ~your head~, not to hypothetical heathens
1835107;1531759556;mircea_popescu;the correct reaction re explanations is ~that the subject aspiring move inside the walls~, nothing else.
1835108;1531759596;asciilifeform;how the fuck do i even say обосновать in engl
1835109;1531759603;asciilifeform;'explain' is muchly the wrongest possible word
1835110;1531759626;asciilifeform;the desired word is 'to put on solid foundations'
1835111;1531759661;mircea_popescu;nothing wrong with that.
1835112;1531759771;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly tangentially, have you ever been tempted to distribute eulora as a physical device ?
1835113;1531759833;mircea_popescu;yes.
1835114;1531759839;mircea_popescu;not only -- danielpbarron did this!
1835115;1531759842;asciilifeform;( before laughing -- consider, the 'games console' people came to this train stop long ago, in 1980s. because really that's the only way to actually deliver on the demand of 'fully static, depends on no variables under control of outsiders ' )
1835116;1531759845;mircea_popescu;then quit doing it, sadly enough.
1835117;1531759880;asciilifeform;not being euloraist, asciilifeform does not know why he quit -- was it because he ran out of iron feedstock ?
1835118;1531759898;mircea_popescu;i dunno specifically ; im not sure he ever said.
1835119;1531760042;asciilifeform;people like to laugh at nintendo, but that's what the actual hard-engineering solution to the problem of dynamicism looks like. e.g. FG src ~will~ run on every FG, and if in any case it is found not to, ~that unit~ is defective and to be immediately replaced. just like nintendo that wouldn't run 'mario XVIII' or whatnot.
1835120;1531760126;Mocky;xbox game bought today will run on every xbox. no requirement to hook up to the net and get updates.
1835121;1531760147;asciilifeform;Mocky: i wouldn't put it past microshit to fuck up even this. but in principle yes.
1835122;1531760156;mircea_popescu;i am surprised this is so.
1835123;1531760182;asciilifeform;it's more or less the 1 and only thing console maker promises to the buyer. ( otherwise buyer would buy a comp )
1835124;1531760193;Mocky;^zackly
1835125;1531760244;mircea_popescu;also the first promise microsoft kept, to my knowledge
1835126;1531760251;Mocky;you'll get games that will always work, for next n years when next console version comes out
1835127;1531760263;*;mircea_popescu was always spiteful of the boxen, never bought never liked, never socialized with the console kids etc.
1835128;1531760286;mircea_popescu;Mocky ohhh, so it's not ~every xbox~, it's ~every thisbox~.
1835129;1531760289;mircea_popescu;ok, like that.
1835130;1531760298;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'll admit that i'm utterly innocent of consolism, with the exception of 1 occasion where i purchased an ancient 'virtual buy' to cut, with hacksaw, apart for the optics
1835131;1531760303;asciilifeform;but i grasp the general principle.
1835132;1531760326;mircea_popescu;me too, but i didn't like the sort of crowd it created. years later i read what zappa had to say about disco crowd, almost exactly the same sentiment.
1835133;1531760331;asciilifeform;1980s nintendos , fed their old cartridges, still work today. ( and when not work -- there are even folx to repair'em. ) i had colleague who had an entire room of these.
1835134;1531760333;mircea_popescu;anyways, the 90s, who even remembers.
1835135;1531760358;mircea_popescu;console ~= people-lite./
1835136;1531760369;asciilifeform;well yes, comps-lite for people-lite
1835137;1531760384;asciilifeform;but point is, they were 'embedded system', 'all that is mine, i carry with me, said the snail'
1835138;1531760403;mircea_popescu;btw, you know the beaches here are full of hermit crabs ?
1835139;1531760408;mircea_popescu;those guys upgrade the iron!
1835140;1531760412;phf;mircea_popescu: playstation was/is backwards compatible, i'm not sure about xbox, could also be
1835141;1531760413;asciilifeform;aha, mircea_popescu earlier posted some serious crabs
1835142;1531760429;mircea_popescu;phf a ok.
1835143;1531760455;Mocky;newer xbox will play older xbox games provided you get "online update"
1835144;1531760459;asciilifeform;observe that some comp makers tried to maintain similar promise to customers -- whole reason why crapple outlived the 1990s, they spent astonishing effort on transparently emulating first their obsolete 68k , then ppc
1835145;1531760496;mircea_popescu;let me tell you something about the crabs, i found fascinating last i was getting a beach blowjob. so, they all move in ~same direction, as far as eye can see, thousands of them. and as you say, right, "all that is mine i carry with". now, if they happen to run into some food, they'll stop a little, have a little, MOVE ON. they make 0 attempt to ~carry the food~. or even search for it.
1835146;1531760504;asciilifeform;for the most part, 1980s crapple soft ~actually ran~ on the ppc iron. and for a few yrs into their intel product line, ppc proggies -- also ran !
1835147;1531760517;asciilifeform;( then -- change of management -- and not . )
1835148;1531760559;mircea_popescu;turns out that the most carrying animal is also the least carry-concerned. wouldn't you expect snail has saddle bags for the shell ?
1835149;1531760589;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i understand they ain't ants, they are wired for 'food is to be looked for in immediate vicinity, when hungry'. think 'grasshopper', not 'ant', in aesopian terminology.
1835150;1531760594;mircea_popescu;half the aftermarket for fucking rv's ("wouldn't it be great if we regressed 10mn years ?!") is pouches of all sorts of kinds.
1835151;1531760708;asciilifeform;people aren't exactly entirely not hermit crabs... outside of sea divers, orbiters, etc we generally don't carry oxygen around, but rather expect to find it in immediate surrounding like the crab expects his food.
1835152;1531760716;*;mircea_popescu feels the urge to include "- the human animal is a beast that dies and if he's got money he buys and buys and buys and I think the reason he buys everything he can buy is that in the back of his mind he has the crazy hope that one of his purchases will be life everlasting!—Which it never can be… " for the pleasure of future readers.
1835153;1531760758;asciilifeform;'...Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal...' etc
1835154;1531760796;mircea_popescu;such a bitcoin advertisement, that thing.
1835155;1531760822;asciilifeform;lacking an actual bitcoin , did not stop folx from playing pretend, naturally.
1835156;1531760827;mircea_popescu;quite.
1835157;1531760840;asciilifeform;just as 'voodoo from a distance' pre-dated the ballistic rocket etc.
1835158;1531761000;Mocky;revisiting upstack, why share secret code with l1? to keep author honest re: binaries, have conversation if something seems off?
1835159;1531761016;mircea_popescu;you have no idea what the crab expects. so the hermit crab, yes ? it has no lungs. nor does it have fish gills. what it has is a sort of spider-like book things ; and they need to be wet, but in air. in water--drowns. if dried -- asphyxiates. talk about evoluted tech.
1835160;1531761031;mircea_popescu;Mocky yes ; and to provide ~some~ recourse to the herd.
1835161;1531761049;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we, also, expect some wet in air. hence why mircea_popescu in cr not in sahara.
1835162;1531761054;mircea_popescu;but really, to capture ~all~ the benefit of code sharing, with none of the downsides.
1835163;1531761067;mircea_popescu;these are people ~you actually want~ to read your code. heck, you'd pay them, if possible.
1835164;1531761087;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i liked sahara air. did not like landscape at all, desert's fucking depressing, but anyways.
1835165;1531761164;Mocky;maybe share only with those who have specific interest / aligned interest
1835166;1531761166;mircea_popescu;and i suppose this is where i insert an important distinction, the lack of which perhaps informed most of alf's earlier protests : provided l1 has code asdiscussed, there are two, very strictly distinct, leaks. 1. is when x guy in lordship shares it with y guy not in lordship. 2. is when x guy in lordship ~publishes~, which is to say, shares with ~unspecified~ outsiders.
1835167;1531761180;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: with hygrometer at 80% mark where i sit, i would also like some sahara air. but prolly not for perma-habitation.
1835168;1531761190;mircea_popescu;type 1 is very different from type 2 ; it's perhaps how you train a slave, or how you make a friend, or whatever. type 2 is very ~visible~.
1835169;1531761222;mircea_popescu;Mocky i don't imagine it's a firm "all l1 absolutely or no deal". it was just phrased exemplarily.
1835170;1531761326;mircea_popescu;eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834975 and yet the world's not come to an end.
1835171;1531761326;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 16:01 mircea_popescu: ave1 lobbes spyked http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yTjUg/?raw=true
1835172;1531761511;diana_coman;my understanding of it so far is that code is made accessible to l1 only i.e. not delivered to each personally and requiring a stamp or something
1835173;1531761538;mircea_popescu;how do you mean ?
1835174;1531761555;mircea_popescu;if it's deeded it's deeded, you don't have to look if you don't feel like looking.
1835175;1531761569;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, exactly; it was for Mocky's Mocky> maybe share only with those who have specific interest / aligned interest
1835176;1531761579;mircea_popescu;(i suppose you technically have to keep it around, if it happens you're stuck with somethign else you want in a bundle, but anyways)
1835177;1531761621;mircea_popescu;the sticky issue of arbitrarily excluding some people from l1 in this sense is that why didn't you a) speak up during http://trilema.com/2018/the-rivers-of-blood-article-or-the-lordship-list-fifth-year/ and b) why wasn't whatever problem you saw remedied.
1835178;1531761630;diana_coman;basically the specific interest is not code's author - he deeds it and then who is interested and in l1 looks at it
1835179;1531761644;mircea_popescu;it is after all a ~managed~ process, and misgivings should be aired rather than festered anyways.
1835180;1531761662;diana_coman;I honestly don't see why would it be a problem to share with x but not with y in l1
1835181;1531761678;mircea_popescu;as long as you have a good answer should y ask.
1835182;1531761703;mircea_popescu;if the answer is "you're a poopyhead", it'll have to be somehow resolved, neh ?
1835183;1531761706;asciilifeform;i guess my problem is that i can't picture any end of this road that doesn't resemble ck-kpss and 'senate intelligence committees' etc.
1835184;1531761734;mircea_popescu;i thought those were mostly the result of widespread illiteracy in the ss.
1835185;1531761754;mircea_popescu;have lotta "senators" who can't read, end up with a publicly funded cliffnotes agency.
1835186;1531761784;asciilifeform;1 problem , i suspect, is that keeping secrets is a ~pleasurable~ and addictive dope, and very often becomes a satisfying but entirely pointless substitute for actual work
1835187;1531761788;mircea_popescu;(which, contrary to all the pretense, is 100% what cia/bia/mia/fuckwhatia IS)
1835188;1531761796;asciilifeform;( recall phf's story of 'cipherpunks culture' )
1835189;1531761817;mircea_popescu;so all the better, we're looking for more ways to kill the few remaining survivors anyway.
1835190;1531761820;diana_coman;asciilifeform, tbh I'm seeing it less and less as a "keep secrets" thing
1835191;1531761830;mircea_popescu;man should be given as much length of rope to hang self with as wants.
1835192;1531761853;diana_coman;it's true it was worded with that hook in it and I bit on it first for sure but I'm reading it more and more as "we make it public; but what public is there outside l1??"
1835193;1531761874;asciilifeform;even dope has a place, if you're a bomber pilot and flak killed your navigator, his assistant, and entire gun crew, and you're on the 71st hour of flying the somehow still-winged wreckage home , then yes, take the pill
1835194;1531761878;mircea_popescu;i suppose this is not an undefensible read.
1835195;1531761925;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it is precisely because i do not see a public outside of l1, that i regard the idea of 'l1-only publications' as in most cases wrongheaded
1835196;1531761942;asciilifeform;i do not buy cockroach repellents, because my house has no cockroaches.
1835197;1531762020;mircea_popescu;diana_coman on re-read, i agree, suboptimal wording on my part (owing, principally, to lack of terminology)
1835198;1531762038;mircea_popescu;o btw... hey Mocky ever considered moving to uruguay ? it's cheaper ; and BingoBoingo could sure use some company.
1835199;1531762039;diana_coman;asciilifeform, hm, I don't follow/think it's an apt metaphor there
1835200;1531762120;Mocky;what if someone in l1 wants to one day make eulora client, has access to src of all clients to date. If it was me in l1 and it were another who was client author, I think I would hesitate to make my own client
1835201;1531762125;asciilifeform;diana_coman: idea being, secrets have a place, if i did not believe this i would not have any interest in crypto. but their place is ~where must~, not ~wherever possible~
1835202;1531762155;mircea_popescu;Mocky why wouldn't you just act like a sane human being and tell them, "hey, i'd like to participate  / work on this project."
1835203;1531762162;mircea_popescu;you can manage, can;t you ?!
1835204;1531762176;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it's not about "seekrit"
1835205;1531762215;diana_coman;Mocky, do you mean that l1 basically are sort of locked out of making their own client because the more logical thing to do would be to collaborate with existing author?
1835206;1531762224;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it is possible that i misread the entire thread, but my understanding was that it was about considering the idea of no longer defaulting to open publication of e.g. cuntoo
1835207;1531762233;asciilifeform;which strikes me as , to put it subtly, batshit
1835208;1531762246;mircea_popescu;diana_coman no, he means he spent 20 years with the retards, ended up soaking in inept notions about "intellectual property"
1835209;1531762269;asciilifeform;i dun actually have any problem with idea of trade secret, where mircea_popescu & diana_coman keep their server to themselves under pillow etc.
1835210;1531762284;diana_coman;asciilifeform, server is quite a different story from client
1835211;1531762284;asciilifeform;as mircea_popescu pointed out, i do same thing on numerous occasion
1835212;1531762291;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i wasn't proposing this be a default. too soon for that, in any case. i was proposing this may have merit & utility.
1835213;1531762302;asciilifeform;it doubtless has merit, in selected cases.
1835214;1531762304;diana_coman;at any rate, atm I'd have even more nightmares with server under my pillow!!!
1835215;1531762325;asciilifeform;when the win from keeping out the heathens justifies the very real expense of keeping the cards to your chest
1835216;1531762337;mircea_popescu;i still don't see what this expense is to be here.
1835217;1531762358;mircea_popescu;other than deedbot storage bill and some minimum administration of pleas, "hey, he published my java on malbolge.com mocksite"
1835218;1531762389;asciilifeform;even considering machine cycles to cost 0 -- the expense is psychological, of introducing promisetronics ( and , inescapably, doubt ) where it does not absolutely necessarily belong. but i risk repeating self.
1835219;1531762396;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, tbh I keep thinking that I'd rather have at least someone in l1 signing a binary before I run it but I'm not even sure that makes sense atm without imposing therefore on l1 to build the binary
1835220;1531762404;mircea_popescu;i still don't know what promise is supposede to have been made!
1835221;1531762419;mircea_popescu;diana_coman you can ask for whatever you'd ask, neh ?
1835222;1531762443;mircea_popescu;the usual eulora client luser won't ask for anything before runnign any binary they can get hands on.
1835223;1531762446;mircea_popescu;twice, just in case.
1835224;1531762505;diana_coman;certainly; but eulora server hashes thing already selects some binaries only, no?
1835225;1531762513;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform maybe this is not evident, but there's a large difference between client and server in a mmorpg. here discussed is client, equivalent of browser in phuctor-netuser relationship
1835226;1531762520;mircea_popescu;diana_coman it does, yes.
1835227;1531762523;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i think i actually grasp this
1835228;1531762527;mircea_popescu;kk.
1835229;1531762541;asciilifeform;( if player can see the server, it is same as seeing all of the deck in card game )
1835230;1531762546;diana_coman;so would it accept any binary? a binary signed by at least 1 person in l1?
1835231;1531762551;mircea_popescu;just about. games need secrets sqn.
1835232;1531762555;asciilifeform;of course.
1835233;1531762579;asciilifeform;( i could picture a game that can survive players seeing the server, e.g. networked 'doom', but not all can )
1835234;1531762580;mircea_popescu;diana_coman entirely my arbitrary call. i'll put whatever strings in there i put, and well... what can you do.
1835235;1531762593;diana_coman;I suspect for fun eulora can even sell 1 secret every 10 years and it won't hurt much, lol
1835236;1531762622;mircea_popescu;heck, it lets people sample it every day, what. they've so far discovered so very much... lol.
1835237;1531762675;Mocky;could have a special item in game that will spit out a secret once per day, if you can figure out how to use it...
1835238;1531762744;mircea_popescu;oh, we do.
1835239;1531762753;mircea_popescu;multiple.
1835240;1531762817;Mocky;*was reference*
1835241;1531762840;mircea_popescu;hm ?
1835242;1531762888;diana_coman;I thought of Sheckley's Ask a Foolish Question but it might be just me
1835243;1531762894;asciilifeform;ha
1835244;1531762915;mircea_popescu;i'm millitantly illiterate.
1835245;1531762944;diana_coman;so go ane improve ye young man! uhm, old, I forgot it's me the youngun
1835246;1531762975;Mocky;was reference to eulora item I read about in the logs: http://logs.minigame.biz/2015-08-08.log.html#t05:20:40
1835247;1531762976;lobbesbot;Logged on 2015-08-08 05:20:40: <mircea_popescu> there's even bezzle magic goldbags
1835248;1531762995;mircea_popescu;that just gives you some dosh.
1835249;1531763003;asciilifeform;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gJB06/?raw=true << subj ftr.
1835250;1531763006;diana_coman;there's the golden goose too! and for that matter there was that "pay the oracle to give you answers" event for all the good it did
1835251;1531763025;mircea_popescu;ahahah yeah. and imo did plenty of good, convinced me i'm a great poetastre!
1835252;1531763049;mircea_popescu;Mocky you ever read my other sheckley rewrite btw ?
1835253;1531763060;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this was the guy with the hour, wans';t he ?
1835254;1531763071;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was. and '9000' other tales.
1835255;1531763072;Mocky;which was that?
1835256;1531763086;mircea_popescu;Mocky http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/
1835257;1531763092;asciilifeform;funnily enuff, entirely forgotten in his home country, but cult hit in former su world, where in fact he lived his last yrs
1835258;1531763133;Mocky;oh yes, that was good. but i never read the original
1835259;1531763204;mircea_popescu;uncharacteristically close to original, even has same ending. i just cleanned up the science a little.
1835260;1531763310;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835051 << to continue on this : the whol.e fucking STRENGTH, of both mytyical-lisp and mythical-emacs (not the objects at any point extant, but the imaginary figments in the wide eyed userbase's minds) was specifically that ... wait for it... does the exact same thing, keeps binary of "world" around, saves time thereby.
1835261;1531763310;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 16:31 mircea_popescu: i have to fucking compile every thing the 9000th time, i can't just put binary images on my 9001th rockchip ?!
1835262;1531763315;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I enjoyed his stories during those 2-3 years when I read almost only SF, 16-18 or there about; when I re-read now I kept getting annoyed because I keep finding it starts well and then sort of veers into what he'd like the world to be rather than what it is
1835263;1531763398;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i see binaries as a cache for src . ( exactly in fact how emacs sees it. ) and thereby i have approx same interest in downloading and running bins built by ~others~ , as in stuffing food they have pre-digested somehow into my own gut, bypassing mouth
1835264;1531763400;mircea_popescu;poor esthlos , he'll have to read all this
1835265;1531763404;mircea_popescu;AND THEN SAY WHAT IT WAS ABOUT
1835266;1531763406;asciilifeform;lol
1835267;1531763414;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this is common problem in fiction
1835268;1531763444;diana_coman;asciilifeform, for some more than for others
1835269;1531763550;BingoBoingo;On this sunny pleasantly warm alt-January day I went for a walk and returned to OMG logs
1835270;1531763572;mircea_popescu;Mocky btw i was serious about uruguay. you ever thought of travel ?
1835271;1531763606;Mocky;i've been meaning to learn spanish. they got cute girls there?
1835272;1531763644;mircea_popescu;so i hear.
1835273;1531763648;Mocky;def not wanting to move to china, lol
1835274;1531763650;asciilifeform;Mocky: they got'em nearly errywhere. in roughly geometrically increasing proportion to distance from usa...
1835275;1531763669;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo do you have a guestroom/bed anything btw ?
1835276;1531763696;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he has a http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/06/26/and-then-there-was-light/ . definitely looks to have room for sleeping bag.
1835277;1531763707;Mocky;asciilifeform, not everywhere if you don't see cute in asian or african
1835278;1531763722;mircea_popescu;i thought you were black!
1835279;1531763732;Mocky;white onthe inside!
1835280;1531763743;asciilifeform;Mocky: troo, they dun have'em in the ocean either, mostly , unless you like fucking dolphin
1835281;1531763758;mircea_popescu;Mocky how about this, you pick two weeks this month/next, i'll pick up your airfare, BingoBoingo will set you up, and you can go hang out in uruguay.
1835282;1531763761;*;asciilifeform admits that he dun think of africa as a destination
1835283;1531763764;mircea_popescu;heck, ima even buy you steaks.
1835284;1531763775;mircea_popescu;think of it as a minigame crimping.
1835285;1531763857;BingoBoingo;<mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo do you have a guestroom/bed anything btw ? << I have a place to put a surface for guest accomodations
1835286;1531763900;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo do you like the idea of hosting or should i include an airbnb in his vacation package.
1835287;1531763934;BingoBoingo;I can host a few nights, but this is a bit cramped for a two week stay.
1835288;1531763947;mircea_popescu;alright.
1835289;1531763991;BingoBoingo;But I am available for guided tours
1835290;1531763999;mircea_popescu;lol. from beerhall to beerhall ?
1835291;1531764005;*;asciilifeform had a+++ guided tour by BingoBoingo 
1835292;1531764034;Mocky;sounds like an adventure, let me consider
1835293;1531764035;BingoBoingo;Well, from barrio to barrio "This is old graffiti" "This is recent graffiti"
1835294;1531764054;mircea_popescu;Mocky consider, consider.
1835295;1531764087;Mocky;correction, let me consider how i can make it happen
1835296;1531764104;mircea_popescu;lol what is involved in that ?!
1835297;1531764121;mircea_popescu;they give vacations where you work, like everywhere else, don't they ?
1835298;1531764177;Mocky;they do, but gotta coordinate with other rowers inthe galley
1835299;1531764217;mircea_popescu;well when you're done with that coordinate with BingoBoingo for an airbnb or w/e for the relevant interval and there you go.
1835300;1531764310;*;mircea_popescu , with 40 (rounded) years' experience in disrupting other people's lives!
1835301;1531764318;Mocky;lol
1835302;1531764380;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> i've been meaning to learn spanish. they got cute girls there? << Here we have them in most colors except African/Asian/Indian. The taller ones usually show up December/January
1835303;1531764416;mircea_popescu;and on that note, off to town. laters!
1835304;1531764436;Mocky;enjoy
1835305;1531766822;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << ack. Closely following thread from $saltmines (will read gpggram once I return to key)
1835306;1531766822;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )
1835307;1531766836;*;lobbes bbl
1835308;1531773996;shinohai;Welp asciilifeform I found the replacement for my fg: https://www.etsy.com/listing/614770978/d20-twerk-o-matic-booty-dice-butt-plug
1835309;1531774227;asciilifeform;lol!!
1835310;1531774240;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu once suggested something not entirely dissimilar .
1835311;1531774269;asciilifeform;really oughta be improved, to add entropy from arse clenching also!
1835312;1531774443;shinohai;I think I'll order a couple and get on those experiments forthwith
1835313;1531781271;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/fractured-us-government-indicts-22-russians-in-absentia-while-chief-executive-makes-progress-in-us-russia-cooperation/ << Qntra - Fractured US Government Indicts 22 Russians In Absentia While Chief Executive Makes Progress In US-Russia Cooperation
1835314;1531781331;mircea_popescu;basically they're negrating people for not being in #usgovt now ?
1835315;1531781343;mircea_popescu;copying #trilema is not much of a policy, yo!
1835316;1531781347;asciilifeform;'now'
1835317;1531781395;mircea_popescu;what, ustardia has a history beyond the now ?
1835318;1531781426;asciilifeform;see e.g. http://qntra.net/2018/03/nine-citizens-of-iran-given-the-honour-of-inclusion-in-usg-fbis-wanted-list/ , or the chinese derping in '16, and prior, endless rerun of same old film
1835319;1531781447;BingoBoingo;"Do you have the time?" "Sure we have now, that's all the time we need"
1835320;1531781457;asciilifeform;lol
1835321;1531781579;mircea_popescu;!!rated davout
1835322;1531781580;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated davout 5 at 2016/05/17 03:24:29 << his lordship the master of common pleas.
1835323;1531781616;asciilifeform;!#seen davout
1835324;1531781616;a111;2018-04-14 <davout> should have synced by the end of next week
1835325;1531781633;mircea_popescu;!!rate davout 1 he used to be a bigshot.
1835326;1531781636;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/n08HO/?raw=true
1835327;1531781651;mircea_popescu;!!rated jurov
1835328;1531781651;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated jurov 5 at 2016/05/17 03:25:03 << his lordship the lord treasurer.
1835329;1531781656;mircea_popescu;!!rate jurov 1 he used to be a bigshot.
1835330;1531781659;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uT4Q3/?raw=true
1835331;1531781660;mircea_popescu;anyone recall that line btw ?
1835332;1531781668;mircea_popescu;!!rated Framedragger
1835333;1531781668;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated Framedragger 4 at 2017/04/15 14:15:10 << His Lordship the Lord Scanner
1835334;1531781676;mircea_popescu;!!rate Framedragger 1 he used to be a bigshot.
1835335;1531781678;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3ihGG/?raw=true
1835336;1531781684;mircea_popescu;!!rated shinohai
1835337;1531781684;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated shinohai 3 at 2017/04/15 14:13:48 << The Right Honorable Baron Titsbare
1835338;1531781689;mircea_popescu;!!rate shinohai 1 he used to be a bigshot.
1835339;1531781691;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rCduF/?raw=true
1835340;1531781697;asciilifeform;jurov incidentally is doing good work for pizarro fiat-wrangling apparatus
1835341;1531781768;shinohai;What, no enemy rating?
1835342;1531781771;mircea_popescu;i kinda lost track of him myself ; but plox to maintain the wot in good working order from own pov.
1835343;1531781781;mircea_popescu;shinohai what's that ?
1835344;1531781796;shinohai;nada
1835345;1531782319;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2012/the-roaring-twenties/ << "Who is this guy?" "This is Eddie Bartlett." "How were you hooked up with him?" "I... I guess I've never figured it out." "What was his business?" "He used to be a big shot."
1835346;1531784838;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834977 << if the goal is client competition, perhaps this is indeed a S.MG matter. I say this from the somewhat unique position of being a member of l1 who also plays and sometimes hacks the client
1835347;1531784838;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 16:01 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, there is of course the fact that l1 is neither for life nor perhaps yet all that difficult to get in and out - I don't know whether this is a l1 matter or a s.mg board matter
1835348;1531784999;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835118 << never had a taker, and then the recipe stopped working. I could get back into it with a less pretty debian, which is what I'm currently using for Eulora
1835349;1531784999;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 16:51 mircea_popescu: i dunno specifically ; im not sure he ever said.
1835350;1531785558;mircea_popescu;ah, right, the damn moving sands.
1835351;1531785692;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron anyway, the goal isn't specifically client competition. but it seems to me it's a necessary possibility.
1835352;1531790396;mod6;evenin', gonna step through these logs here.
1835353;1531793439;mod6;Ok well, I'm all caught up here.
1835354;1531793460;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << ack.  There are certain projects that I can see the benefits of this.  There are others where I can see it doesn't fit.
1835355;1531793460;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )
1835356;1531793481;mircea_popescu;right
1835357;1531793568;mod6;From the earlier discussion, I tend to see a lot of points from all sides.  And quite an interesting discussion.  I've been thinking on it all day.
1835358;1531793586;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought of 1 far-conveyor item where i actually had it in my notes 'to be for l1 encyclical only' -- the shortwave repeater
1835359;1531793610;mircea_popescu;and for the exact sort of reason, neh ?
1835360;1531793617;mod6;I've been trying to see how this doesn't end up with a bunch of finger-pointing once someone's source code is inevitably leaked.  (If it can happen, it will happen.)
1835361;1531793621;asciilifeform;for the obvious reason, aha.
1835362;1531793654;mod6;When given the prospect of asking someone in L1 to hold long-term, or indefinite secrets as opposed to short-term secrets, it gets much harder to evaluate the trust or risk.  One can not predict
1835363;1531793658;mircea_popescu;mod6 we have the only instrument known to man of productive fingerpointing.
1835364;1531793658;mod6;what may happen in the future; trust between two or more people might not be the same as it is today.
1835365;1531793772;mod6;Well, my fear is that: Lord X encypts $src_code, to {a,b,c,d} ; as was said before, it would be impossible to tell if $src_code was leaked by X, or a,b,c or d.  (This was stated earlier too).
1835366;1531793802;mircea_popescu;yeah.
1835367;1531793886;mircea_popescu;consider the case at hand. i dunno if you've read the proposed protocol etc, but suppose it happens with euclient. so recognized owner creates a new set of binaries (i dunno, moves a class around say) and i use the new hashes for server, and so the leaker gets what exactly ? client for a server that won't talk to it ?
1835368;1531793918;mod6;Another scenario that I was kind of thinking about is where: Lord X encrypts $src_code, drops it into deedbot, and $src_code is encyptped to {a,b,c,d}.  Upon a future date, person 'a', is drummed out and neg-rated.  Nothing stops person 'a' from still decypting that $src_code with his key, neg-rated or not.  This is not wholly differnt than before... just saying that there's no "backsies".
1835369;1531793942;mircea_popescu;of course something keeps them.
1835370;1531793947;mircea_popescu;what, there's no life after lordship ?
1835371;1531793948;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ( admittedly i haven't read the referenced item ) what's to stop client from sending to server the old hashes ?
1835372;1531793966;mircea_popescu;this isn't some sort of banana republic, where it's either go president or get shot.
1835373;1531793999;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, it'll require complacent users.
1835374;1531794006;mircea_popescu;not ~stop~ per se.
1835375;1531794066;asciilifeform;for some reason i thought that the thing was build specifically to be agnostic of client (i.e. so long as they speaks the published protocol, all clients work)
1835376;1531794097;asciilifeform;i.e. like irc and unlike aol
1835377;1531794152;asciilifeform;or, more on point, specifically in contrast to 'warcraft' and similar muds where vendor plays whackamole with 'cheating' clients
1835378;1531794155;mircea_popescu;not really. there's a mechanism to permit the user to check his client against what it tells the server
1835379;1531794162;mircea_popescu;considering there's literal billions involved...
1835380;1531794172;mircea_popescu;i dunno, i wouldn't use any online banking thing that didnt'; checksum
1835381;1531794181;mod6;Another thing, I was thinking about was:  Perhaps shipping the source to all L1, maybe let people request this themselves.
1835382;1531794251;mod6;I'd like to say, that I don't think that it's an over all /bad/ idea, I'm just not sure if it's a good idea either.  I think this might just be a case-by-case basis.
1835383;1531794384;mod6;I would like for TMSR~ to retain it's own code; for many reasons, including preventing other possible fraud and snake-oil salesmen... a variety of things have been written about on the subject in here actually.
1835384;1531794388;asciilifeform;mod6: my original disagreement in $thread wasn't re 'sometimes gotta try to limit distribution to l1' -- it is very easy to think of cases where this is the obvious Right Thing -- but in re eulora client in particular, i still dun see what the eulora folx have to keep seekrit in the client ( i.e. what problem do 'heathens produce shoddy client' create, that ordinary pgp signature doesn't solve )
1835385;1531794422;mod6;I'm not sure that we have the correct abilities to do such a thing at this time, at least on a policy based level.
1835386;1531794456;asciilifeform;mod6: can you think of a fraudulent scenario that isn't handled by simple vtronics and actually requires seekrit coad ?
1835387;1531794500;mod6;nope, but who knows.  maybe someone finds a winner-takes-all-zero-day, to be used at time X.
1835388;1531794557;mod6;and as far as the eulora client, maybe S.MG wants the source to remain closed, this is for them to decide.
1835389;1531794568;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes. one guy puts in all the work to make the damned thing, and then some moron "forks" it.
1835390;1531794572;mircea_popescu;drepperization, is a thing.
1835391;1531794589;mod6;It seems like a burden to thrust these decisions upon the L1 however, should someone defect and leak the sensitive materials.
1835392;1531794590;mircea_popescu;all that code SHOULD NOT have been shared. not with fucking red hat, not with fucking koch, not with fucking drepper and so on.
1835393;1531794591;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought the eulora model was 'proprietary server, 9000 clients' ?
1835394;1531794596;mircea_popescu;so ?
1835395;1531794692;asciilifeform;my understanding is that client is currently published ; how many shoddy heathen forks ?
1835396;1531794708;asciilifeform;and why would the players prefer heathen shitfork to the orig
1835397;1531794714;mircea_popescu;current client is pretty shitty.
1835398;1531794725;mircea_popescu;for the same reason the lusers preferred gcc 5 to gcc 4.
1835399;1531794736;mircea_popescu;and opera 2013 to 12.x
1835400;1531794737;mircea_popescu;and so on.
1835401;1531794777;asciilifeform;let's say that eulora becomes suddenly unspeakably popular , and lusers write 9000 sad clients. they're still forced to play by the game rules nailed down in the server, neh
1835402;1531794804;mod6;I see this as even beyond the Eulora scenario, stretching out to any TMSR~ source;  I just don't see a good way to solve it right now, other than being selective with who gets rights to see the $src.
1835403;1531794819;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeh.
1835404;1531794914;asciilifeform;ftr i share in the traditional frustration ( which goes back to , yes, rms & the gpl folx ) where 'why should hitler get to use my proggy'. but imho it uncomfortably echoes that of the gurlz on arsebook etc, 'i want to write about my fucks but for ~everyone but mother~ to read'
1835405;1531794937;mircea_popescu;im not sure that's a good controlling example.
1835406;1531794949;mircea_popescu;i'm thinking more in the veins of, "really, you gave monkey ak ?"
1835407;1531794978;mircea_popescu;seems human civilisation managed to mostly keep rifles out of the hands of children, potash out of the mouths of babes and so on.
1835408;1531795003;asciilifeform;monkey had ak for quite a while -- e.g. the openly published fg design; but apparently monkey has atrociously poor aim
1835409;1531795025;asciilifeform;hits, for the most part, only own foot. and other monkeys.
1835410;1531795033;mircea_popescu;fg is not ak. fg is more like, sights, or something.
1835411;1531795079;asciilifeform;to concretize -- what exactly might a malignant heathen do with eulora client ? make own idjit server to go with it ?
1835412;1531795126;mircea_popescu;wait for someone to sink in the (not insiginificant) cost of fixing the code, "fork" it, market it, and essentially cash in on the op's work.
1835413;1531795206;asciilifeform;heathens are , as i currently understand, so unspeakably stupid that 'stealing fixed code' is not to date ever observed, they re-break as soon as they touch. ( any heathens stole trb for the shitfork warz, other than funkenstein ? )
1835414;1531795286;asciilifeform;sorta why i invoked fg as example -- recently i noticed a heathen who lifted the analogue scheme , but could not resist gluing it to the usual heathen whitener , because how could he resist.
1835415;1531795286;mircea_popescu;what do you mean other than.
1835416;1531795336;asciilifeform;the behaviour of the congentially-sad when encountering 'fixed' item is summarized in http://trilema.com/2014/what-happens-when-you-add-a-drop-of-sewage-to-a-bottle-of-fine-wine/#selection-175.0-179.465
1835417;1531795347;asciilifeform;'they cloink a coupla with the sledgehammer so as to break down the find into shards the size they can fit in a pocket, after which they stick it on their oxcart'
1835418;1531795365;asciilifeform;i've yet to encounter the case where the result was in some way confusable with the original
1835419;1531795392;mircea_popescu;yes, well, ideally this should be kept at a minimum. both the kloinking and the sharding.
1835420;1531795392;asciilifeform;*congenitally-
1835421;1531795432;mircea_popescu;and think in terms of confusable ~by whom~. as far as 50% or so of fetlife female moron population is concerned, they have "a master" or whatever in that vein.
1835422;1531795442;mircea_popescu;because they're fucked in the head, and literally can not distinguish anything from anythning else.
1835423;1531795475;asciilifeform;possibly this is the root of disagreement -- asciilifeform takes mircea_popescu's old warning of 'just say no to any dealings with the malignantly stupid poor'(tm)(r) to heart, doesn't deal with the '50%', doesn't need them for anything whatsoever
1835424;1531795488;mod6;Anyway Gentlemen, I think that currently this comes down to: 1) "How much do I trust the man standing next to me?" and 2) What are the consequences should others betray and leak my valuable assets?
1835425;1531795554;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ok, but you recall ye olde discussions re governance etc ?
1835426;1531795557;asciilifeform;folx who are so 'confusable' that they cannot be persuaded, by carrot or stick, to at the very least check a pgp sig , are beyond redemption
1835427;1531795582;mircea_popescu;redemption is not here contemplated.
1835428;1531795776;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835250 << aha, 'member this!? :D
1835429;1531795776;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 17:43 diana_coman: there's the golden goose too! and for that matter there was that "pay the oracle to give you answers" event for all the good it did
1835430;1531795785;asciilifeform;unless, again, i misread , what's contemplated is to somehow make 'fetlife female morons' who won't pgp and won't drop winblowz etc use an authenticated piece of soft, somehow ( something that e.g. banks have not been able to accomplish )
1835431;1531795827;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not at all. people should be able to play a fucking game without necessarily understanding how the actual code works.
1835432;1531795869;asciilifeform;no disagreement re this
1835433;1531795889;mircea_popescu;that's the whole fucking point. not just of writing games, but of storytelling altogether, as a whole discipline reaching all the way to the core of substance. people's enjoyment of reading say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835256 might be ~enhanced~ by a secure mastery of the writer's craft
1835434;1531795889;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 17:44 mircea_popescu: Mocky http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/
1835435;1531795905;mircea_popescu;however, at the most basic level, literature must remain enjoyable for the barely literate.
1835436;1531795908;asciilifeform;( hence why asciilifeform did not say 'wtf, why you lot distribute binariola, why not post just src like trb ' )
1835437;1531796032;mircea_popescu;well ok, so then what pgp signatures.
1835438;1531796071;asciilifeform;of the client bin; and of the server ip (or how does player know that he is playing eulora and not obamalora )
1835439;1531796098;mircea_popescu;they're all playing obamalora as it is anyway.
1835440;1531796106;asciilifeform;my point was that if he's a monkey and can't or won't conceptualize the diff, he will play obamalora no matter what
1835441;1531796107;asciilifeform;exactly
1835442;1531796153;mircea_popescu;no argument there.
1835443;1531796172;mod6;hmm.
1835444;1531796258;asciilifeform;admittedly asciilifeform is not a eulorist, but i had a very positive picture of it as -- including other things -- a kindergarten teaching tool for 'fuck people but do biznis with keys' , 'pubkey is the soul', etc
1835445;1531796300;asciilifeform;and the lack of reliance on magic/closed client is imho powerfully illustrative of the diff b/w eulora and heathen 'warcrafts'
1835446;1531796300;mod6;it does work this way ^, must have key registered with the server to even log in.
1835447;1531796335;Mocky;my understanding is minigame wants there to be 3rd party clients, but would want access to the src and be assured binary matches src. but if src fully available then good client gets forked so what incentive to write client?
1835448;1531796364;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform note i'm not forbidding anyone from ~publishing~ their client.
1835449;1531796403;lobbes;imo, the bar to actually 'playing eulora' is above that of monkey anyway (at least -right now- unless someone figures out the 'monetize the fetlife girls angle for eulora)
1835450;1531796415;asciilifeform;Mocky: i grasp the argument, but must point out that all attempts to date to cudgel people into paying for software, have ended in tears ( usually for the cudgel-wielder )
1835451;1531796417;mircea_popescu;lobbes things will change though.
1835452;1531796428;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1835453;1531796441;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is deeply not so. attempts to make people pay insane amounts always failed, and this has no relation to software whatsoever.
1835454;1531796453;mircea_popescu;people will gladly pay reasonable sums for anything whatsoever.
1835455;1531796480;lobbes;I could see someone creating a 'ecu casino' for the 'masses' indeed
1835456;1531796489;lobbes;hm
1835457;1531796493;mircea_popescu;it is however not the customer's problem that the fair price point for borland whatever is 0.0006 except borland can';t chage that because must be 9.95 or else visa monopoly throws a fit.
1835458;1531796529;lobbes;this is a point
1835459;1531796612;mircea_popescu;notice that ~even today~ there's solid market in "music cds". if you want i can photograph the people outside trying to sell their shiny "extrenos"
1835460;1531796624;mircea_popescu;but at a buck a shot. not at 20 bux a shitty "album" cd.
1835461;1531796789;mircea_popescu;lobbes consider the obvious example -- people will pay (but ~a few ecu~ sorta thing) to merely ~use~ an auction bot. they could just do that by fucking hand, what's to keep them.
1835462;1531796795;mircea_popescu;except, life not being endless...
1835463;1531796834;mod6;What if, you gave out the S.MG binary client, and along with it, an example client.  Void of code that you would consider "trade secrets".  This way people can use the example to get their own off the ground with the most minimal information required to do so?
1835464;1531796858;mod6;Or am I being retarded here?
1835465;1531796898;mircea_popescu;well, there's obviously a published server protocol, as well as the old client... these don't constitute ?
1835466;1531796941;mod6;I figured, can't really help it with the old client.  Was thinking maybe there is a new one in the works with some stuff that need not be open sores.
1835467;1531796960;Mocky;asciilifeform, i dont' even see it as an issue of paying for software: the paying or not doesn't need to differ from the case where minigame writes the official client
1835468;1531796961;mircea_popescu;Mocky this even make snese to you btw ?
1835469;1531797057;Mocky;this makes sense to me. the only thing i have against it is asciilifeform and mod6 argument about the burden of keeping secrets. while I don't see the proposed method as actually burdensome, i see the argument in the general case
1835470;1531797106;mircea_popescu;i suppose. though honestly, what is it, don't decrypt the deed, it'll sit there.
1835471;1531797127;mircea_popescu;i would expect it is actually a ~gain~ if one discovers he's leaking secrets unwillingly.
1835472;1531797288;Mocky;if in the case of a confirmed leak, pointed questions could be asked even of those who never so much as looked at it. and i'm not saying answering questions is a big burden, but alternately not being suspected in the first place could be considered a benefit
1835473;1531797360;mircea_popescu;by whom ?
1835474;1531797427;mod6;well, any defendant of such an accusation would have to ask Lordship to /believe/ they didn't do it; not sure how they would ask Lordship to /verify/ they are telling the truth.
1835475;1531797467;Mocky;there's no way toknow, obviously. but if i wrote a client under this l1 confidence model, and it leaked not by me, i would suspect someone in l1... who else?
1835476;1531797494;mircea_popescu;mod6 why would they have to ask anyone anything ? Mocky so you'd suspect. and ?
1835477;1531797519;mircea_popescu;if your lunch were gone from your brown paper bag you wouldn't suspect me, you'd suspect someone who worked there. and ?
1835478;1531797572;mod6;I'm saying in the instance of inquisition.  I don't think there is any way to separate a willful liar from someone who lost control of their key.
1835479;1531797642;mod6;Identity as such will be condemed, indeed.
1835480;1531797649;Mocky;i don't see it as a problem for the client writer. to the contrary i would expect clients to get regular updates and older versions less useful relatively over time. but maybe asciilifeform doesn't care about eulora at all, why involve when only possible involvement 'suspected of leak'?
1835481;1531797667;mircea_popescu;yeah but i mean... i dunno, sometimes i feel like i'm the only one who was ever 12. so you're at camp, and someone spread toothpaste on the teacher's moustache while he slept. so ?
1835482;1531797669;Mocky;as example
1835483;1531797700;mircea_popescu;Mocky well in thsi case, because the barrier to entry is a major destroyer of interest. maybe if he can read at cost 0 he reads and if he can read at cost epsilon, he doesn't.
1835484;1531797715;mircea_popescu;people fuck more girls they find in their bed spread eagled than girls they have to say hello to.
1835485;1531797722;mircea_popescu;which is why monogamy was even invented.
1835486;1531797732;Mocky;this is true
1835487;1531797734;mircea_popescu;otherwise, biologically, "never meet again" is the winning strategy.
1835488;1531797892;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's altogether doubtful that this naive model of imperial "progress" ever applied to software. i don't expect lcients to become ever better over time.
1835489;1531797895;Mocky;if shortwave repeater was in l1 confidence and one day i became l1, i wouldn't see having to keep that secret as a burden.
1835490;1531797896;mircea_popescu;nothing else does.
1835491;1531798032;Mocky;seems theres a general level of good enough, that's rarely hit first release
1835492;1531798059;mircea_popescu;ok, but rarely improved upon past 2-3.
1835493;1531798078;mircea_popescu;or i dunno, maybe you're the one guy who thinks need for speed only finally nailed the plot on installment 8.
1835494;1531798147;mircea_popescu;and are already lining up for the 9th version of vin diesel being retarded from profile.
1835495;1531798201;Mocky;if there turns out competition between clients, maybe i want to do something to get more market share
1835496;1531798376;Mocky;or maybe not. i still have software from the 90's that I use on a daily basis, install straight from orig 90's cd
1835497;1531798479;mircea_popescu;me too.
1835498;1531798489;mircea_popescu;and i tend to play games from 20 years ago today still. which...
1835499;1531798838;mod6;have fun, mircea_popescu
1835500;1531798859;mircea_popescu;no i didn't mean right now
1835501;1531798866;mod6;oh :D
1835502;1531799270;mod6;Maybe a "developer license" isn't a bad idea either.  Could raise some capital, and constrain the source code to those who promise not to share it and who want/need it.
1835503;1531801405;ave1;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834921, ack. I think it's a brilliant idea. Especially, points (2) and (3) and I'm not worried about the "keeping a secret" parts. First, I've worked for companies with an extensive secret code base (and this code is and has been secret for a long time > 30 years) . Second, all leaked sources are "illegal" anyway (as in this source was not sanctioned, so it's worthless).
1835504;1531801405;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.
1835505;1531801476;ave1;Third, it is not about who leaked it (I do not care about that much). It's about trust and if L1 does not trust each other, then what?
1835506;1531801683;ave1;I find the 'if it can happen, it will happen' a strange argument. Let's say you let a friend stay in your house while you are away for a couple of months? Yes, he could destroy the house and steal the contents, still this arrangement works and has worked for many friends.
1835507;1531801829;ave1;I like it (I thinks it's paramount) that the republic is exclusive and not inclusive . (It then means something if you are included)
1835508;1531802654;ave1;And the whole thing affirms the power/status of the Lords. I.E. when an author goes against a Lords wishes or AWOL it is then in the power of that Lord to contact another author and give him the source etc.
1835509;1531809072;lobbes;!Qlater tell mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jrVAh/?raw=true
1835510;1531809072;lobbesbot;lobbes: The operation succeeded.
1835511;1531820545;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834921 <-- I'm sold on the idea i. in particular for eulora, and ii. otherwise for it to be established on a case-by-case basis. for (i), I see nothing wrong with e.g. challenging users to reverse-engineer the client (or maybe I'm just nostalgic about game cracking/trainers).
1835512;1531820545;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: as we're contemplating an eulora client rewrite, i am contemplating the following code release paradigm : client author a) releases code encrypted to l1, signed and deeded (so basically, gpg -aer asciilifeform -r ave1 -r etc) ; b) releases precompiled binaries for allcomers.
1835513;1531820759;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834926 <-- and yet, despite the disadvantage, it seems there may be items such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835358 that are both big and l1-only, despite the risk involved. hence my (ii) above.
1835514;1531820759;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: the evident disadvantage is that this only works if we can rely on l1 to keep a secret ; which means things (such as, that it can't be as big, for instance).
1835515;1531820759;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 02:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought of 1 far-conveyor item where i actually had it in my notes 'to be for l1 encyclical only' -- the shortwave repeater
1835516;1531821217;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835039 <-- this imho doesn't make asciilifeform an idiot, it makes user responsible for whatever setup he runs the binary on. the same guarantee would be given for hypothetical linux kernel with changed abi as for mswindows kernel. as much as the word of heathens are not to be trusted, heathen did promise e.g. https://archive.is/KD183#selection-248.64-248.65 . so imho misbehaving kernel will just be
1835517;1531821217;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 16:28 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: releasing binaries does not create this guarantee. even static elf, when put on a box where linus et al (or his successor) see it fit to subtly change the abi, will bomb, and not necessarily immediately. and i'ma still 'be idiot'
1835518;1531821223;spyked;banned, with all that comes from that.
1835519;1531821524;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835450 <-- how about http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455082 though? still very much subject to w4r3z, sure, but otherwise didn't end in tears.
1835520;1531821524;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 03:00 asciilifeform: Mocky: i grasp the argument, but must point out that all attempts to date to cudgel people into paying for software, have ended in tears ( usually for the cudgel-wielder )
1835521;1531821524;a111;Logged on 2016-04-22 01:10 asciilifeform: ida is a particularly interesting case because it is a TOTAL monopoly
1835522;1531821853;spyked;mircea_popescu, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834975 <-- http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/HCO37/?raw=true
1835523;1531821853;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 16:01 mircea_popescu: ave1 lobbes spyked http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yTjUg/?raw=true
1835524;1531828028;ave1;mircea_popescu, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fzpXU/?raw=true
1835525;1531831884;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835519 << guilfanov spent years raging at 'pirates', planting boobytraps, even implemented his infamous 'church interdict' against anyone known to employ ida 'traitors' , then still ended up selling his firm to usg.
1835526;1531831884;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 09:58 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835450 <-- how about http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455082 though? still very much subject to w4r3z, sure, but otherwise didn't end in tears.
1835527;1531831913;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-25#1175343 << see also. )
1835528;1531831913;a111;Logged on 2015-06-25 03:13 asciilifeform: ilfak guilfanov.
1835529;1531831995;asciilifeform;this is not an argument for or against selling soft, but rather a data point.
1835530;1531832069;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835502 << the commercial lisp people work (worked? prior to being swallowed by usg) this way. e.g. allegro.
1835531;1531832069;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 03:47 mod6: Maybe a "developer license" isn't a bad idea either.  Could raise some capital, and constrain the source code to those who promise not to share it and who want/need it.
1835532;1531832259;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835489 << note that it specifically was an example of a seekrit with strictly limited lifespan -- once there are '9000' repeaters, the need to keep the details under wraps vanishes
1835533;1531832259;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 03:24 Mocky: if shortwave repeater was in l1 confidence and one day i became l1, i wouldn't see having to keep that secret as a burden.
1835534;1531832327;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835478 << losing control of your key is a fatal sapper mistake regardless of what else
1835535;1531832327;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 03:19 mod6: I'm saying in the instance of inquisition.  I don't think there is any way to separate a willful liar from someone who lost control of their key.
1835536;1531832427;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835518 << linus is not immortal, and i expect that he will lose control of kernel -- just as he stupidly lost control of his trademark to 'linux foundation' (y'know, with gavin on staff) -- even before dies
1835537;1531832427;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 09:53 spyked: banned, with all that comes from that.
1835538;1531832468;asciilifeform;at that point the 'free ride' will end and we'll be stuck maintaining a kernel.
1835539;1531833065;deedbot;http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/07/17/discriminatory-code-sharing/ << Ossasepia - Discriminatory Code Sharing
1835540;1531833096;spyked;aha, question is strictly when (next month, year or decade), not if. and even if abi remains stable, /me expects something along the lines of "linux kernel 6.3 only compiles with gcc >17" around the corner.
1835541;1531833175;asciilifeform;spyked: aha, it's a sure thing.
1835542;1531833646;ave1;diana_coman, nice write-up!
1835543;1531833660;diana_coman;ave1, thanks!
1835544;1531833723;diana_coman;it's still open to discussion as far as I can see it so any comments are most welcome
1835545;1531834238;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i don't see any problem with eulora making its src members-only ( whether l1 or the 2 people who actually work on it etc ) but will admit that i still don't see what it adds, other than ceremonially. the monkey herd can still plagiarize the existing published src .
1835546;1531834265;diana_coman;asciilifeform, what will that plagiarizing do?
1835547;1531834292;asciilifeform;precisely nothing ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835408 thread ) . hence asciilifeform's 'why bother'
1835548;1531834292;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 02:36 asciilifeform: monkey had ak for quite a while -- e.g. the openly published fg design; but apparently monkey has atrociously poor aim
1835549;1531834333;asciilifeform;but imho this is a decision intimately for the folx who actually wrote the thing ( diana_coman , mircea_popescu ) , i've no skin in the game
1835550;1531834411;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I keep getting the impression that you focus in turn on one or another aspect but not quite on the whole; I'm a bit at a loss to point out exactly where it breaks though
1835551;1531834473;diana_coman;perhaps a more fleshed out exercise: say there are clients A and B that have binaries released and accepted by Eulora's server (as per known hashes) ; sources of those are released to l1
1835552;1531834514;diana_coman;now monkey has access to old client source, sure
1835553;1531834528;diana_coman;it can compile it as much as it wants, server won't answer for one thing
1835554;1531834532;asciilifeform;diana_coman: asciilifeform's pov re the retardation of 'open sores' , rms et al, is that they are tards not because they throw open the coad to allcomers but because they have no concept of wot , therefore were unable to conceptualize vtronics .
1835555;1531834568;asciilifeform;diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835371 ?
1835556;1531834568;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 02:19 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ( admittedly i haven't read the referenced item ) what's to stop client from sending to server the old hashes ?
1835557;1531834574;diana_coman;it can of course dig into binaries and get the hashes from A or B and then pretend their own code IS A or B but ..so what? i.e. author of A or B will get more money, is that bad?
1835558;1531834595;diana_coman;answert already, lol
1835559;1531834625;diana_coman;what the monkey can do will still help... non-monkey, that's the point
1835560;1531834625;asciilifeform;the hashes thing strikes me as promisetronic, it is already 'honour system', why not simply identify the client by name, same effect.
1835561;1531834649;diana_coman;it's one level up in the hurdle game
1835562;1531834679;diana_coman;the assumption there is that someone who is able to get the hash out and change it in his own client is intelligent enough to actually earn money off his own work
1835563;1531834681;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's perspective is prolly coloured by his having been paid to both make and break such 'protections' in the saeculum many times.
1835564;1531834689;diana_coman;rather than futzing about for pennies with that
1835565;1531834769;diana_coman;put a different way: they are intelligent enough to have the option of earning money honestly and realise the risks of being dishonest are greater than they are worth
1835566;1531834796;asciilifeform;diana_coman: some folx are 'griefers' , neh, they will break just to break.
1835567;1531834799;diana_coman;asciilifeform, "in the saeculum" != in tmsr; that's the whole thing
1835568;1531834824;asciilifeform;diana_coman: right, but point was the futility of promisetronic 'protections'
1835569;1531834834;diana_coman;sure, but after they break it, what do they do with it that is a. not useful to tmsr b. downright problematic
1835570;1531834841;asciilifeform;they are breakable by just about anybody with basic education without breaking much of a sweat
1835571;1531834893;diana_coman;I think you take those hashes to be an absolute promise of something; they are not; they are what they are (a mechanism, not an amulet!) and clearly stated; nobody pretends anything
1835572;1531834911;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the conundrum from my pov is that why to bother with protections if 'so what if they break, not as if it does anything'
1835573;1531834931;diana_coman;ugh; listen: do you lock your entrance door?
1835574;1531834971;diana_coman;because I seriously doubt that it can't be broken so why do you bother locking it?
1835575;1531835008;asciilifeform;habit.
1835576;1531835020;asciilifeform;if thieves could teleport, i prolly would not bother.
1835577;1531835067;diana_coman;you'd probably still bother with an anti-teleport device although that one will also have some way of being broken
1835578;1531835070;asciilifeform;( recall alfred bester's 'stars my destination' )
1835579;1531835081;diana_coman;ha
1835580;1531835101;*;asciilifeform brb,tea
1835581;1531835104;diana_coman;enjoy!
1835582;1531837258;*;asciilifeform back
1835583;1531837305;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/numerous-reports-speculating-ecuador-in-negotiations-for-imminent-assange-extradition/ << Qntra - Numerous Reports Speculating Ecuador In Negotiations For Imminent Assange Extradition
1835584;1531840457;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i gotta say, not very informative piece, either link or paste etc these 'reports' ?
1835585;1531841106;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: One of many possible archive links added
1835586;1531841322;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: i sorta assumed he'd already been shot when Officially declared 'incommunicado'
1835587;1531841366;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: It takes time to put the comatose look alike together
1835588;1531842571;Mocky;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835572 >> does it change your pov if the hash is no form of protection or implied protection but merely an accounting convenience. like say http 'referrer' on phuctor page links to pizarro. maybe pizarro uses referrer to track where customer comes from and if came from known ad placement then counts customer for that ad. is referrer string now promisatronic protection since anyone
1835589;1531842571;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 13:41 asciilifeform: diana_coman: the conundrum from my pov is that why to bother with protections if 'so what if they break, not as if it does anything'
1835590;1531842571;Mocky;can 'break' so why bother?
1835591;1531842653;asciilifeform;Mocky: it'd be a moar realistic description of what it is, yes.
1835592;1531842814;Mocky;asciilifeform, what's being protected?
1835593;1531842863;asciilifeform;Mocky: see logs; my understanding is that there's to be a scheme for rewarding authors of successful authorized clients
1835594;1531842893;asciilifeform;Mocky: i neither develop nor play eulora, so i cannot meaningfully comment re detail
1835595;1531843044;Mocky;asciilifeform, i get that. I read your 'realistic description' statement to mean referrer string is promisatronic protection, was asking what referrer string is protecting.
1835596;1531843103;asciilifeform;Mocky: this is a q for diana_coman ? ( as i understand, it is meant to make the use of obsolete (currently published) client , moar difficult )
1835597;1531843447;Mocky;asciilifeform, assume for the sake of argument diana_coman said 'dun care about make use difficult, let them use whatever works', do you still have objection to that?
1835598;1531843477;asciilifeform;Mocky: i in fact do not have objection to it either way, it is a stylistic decision for diana_coman & mircea_popescu , not mine to make
1835599;1531843493;asciilifeform;but i'll admit to being puzzled re what is the win from it.
1835600;1531843671;Mocky;i've also been on both sides of make / break protections (although break for fun not pay). if hash is used as protection, i see that as valid objection
1835601;1531845761;diana_coman;Mocky's description is correct - it is an accounting mechanism, yes
1835602;1531845791;diana_coman;I didn't even realise there was some way to see it as protection against ...what? code copying or what?
1835603;1531846186;diana_coman;asciilifeform, no, it's not about making use of any client more difficult per se
1835604;1531846963;asciilifeform;diana_coman: the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835553 formulation suggested 'protection mechanism', but i guess i've nfi
1835605;1531846963;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 13:35 diana_coman: it can compile it as much as it wants, server won't answer for one thing
1835606;1531847020;diana_coman;asciilifeform, next to that is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835557
1835607;1531847020;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 13:36 diana_coman: it can of course dig into binaries and get the hashes from A or B and then pretend their own code IS A or B but ..so what? i.e. author of A or B will get more money, is that bad?
1835608;1531847097;diana_coman;the overall idea is to pay authors of clients based on how much their clients are actually used
1835609;1531847103;asciilifeform;aha makes sense
1835610;1531847196;diana_coman;the ~only scenario I could come up with re abusing that hash is where author of A that is less successful than known B decides somehow to distribute a doctored version of B that sends the hashes of A - it's already rather insane I'd say
1835611;1531847597;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835608 << this was a key piece I was missing as well. For some reason I thought scheme was 'lock down production of binaries so as to allow authors to work out their own pay-for-client mechanism.' Whole thing makes way more sense to me nao
1835612;1531847597;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 17:04 diana_coman: the overall idea is to pay authors of clients based on how much their clients are actually used
1835613;1531847661;diana_coman;glad it does!
1835614;1531848800;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in vintage lulz, https://archive.is/tWfDh << yet another faux-gossipd.
1835615;1531848834;asciilifeform;'...We ended up with a simple protocol packet: the Lulzpacket. This simple packet contains information to verify there was no corruption during the transmission and a random code to pseudo-identify the packet. We define the addresses of nodes in the net by their ability to decrypt a given packet. Addresses are derived from the hashes of asymmetric encryption keys, Every radio node defines its own address by the pair of keys it has ge
1835616;1531848834;asciilifeform;nerated for itself...' etc.
1835617;1531851603;asciilifeform;( linked document is a riot, generous admixture of liberasty, dumbest possible architectural ??? , perl duct tape, junk electronics, etc )
1835618;1531853654;lobbes;Lulzy "We have tested image transfers using Google's WebP format to try conserve bandwidth as much as possible, but the lack of support in several browsers has given us second thoughts."
1835619;1531855178;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835616 << I first read this line as "negrated for itself"
1835620;1531855178;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 17:33 asciilifeform: nerated for itself...' etc.
1835621;1531855412;BingoBoingo;And was shocked mostly with the though "it"s can rate?
1835622;1531856026;asciilifeform;lol
1835623;1531859998;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835618 << afaik every single pseudo-gossipd ( and counting just the ones that proceeded past vapour ) ran head first into this failure of imagination, where somehow the only worthwhile payload is general-purpose derp ip traffic incl lolcats
1835624;1531859998;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 18:54 lobbes: Lulzy "We have tested image transfers using Google's WebP format to try conserve bandwidth as much as possible, but the lack of support in several browsers has given us second thoughts."
1835625;1531860047;asciilifeform;( given as avoiding said wall of idjicy inescapably requires 'structure of authority' (tm)(r) )
1835626;1531860128;asciilifeform;the sw repeater item, for instance, only becomes thinkable once you dispense with 'allcomers' and realize that there's no reason to forward anything not signed with l1 key, etc
1835627;1531860250;asciilifeform;( deadly simple algo : listen for packet at all times, if received one where nonce incremented and rsa sig is valid, that's now the new packet, and now it, instead of prev, gets pulsed ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831796 ) out )
1835628;1531860250;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 16:40 mircea_popescu: current gear can't deal with pulse piracy
1835629;1531860330;asciilifeform;put a coupla dozen of these on each continent , and you get l1 'internet' .
1835630;1531860419;asciilifeform;( observe that there is no reason why all of'em gotta answer to ~same~ l1 key. item oughta survive a defection or 2, if built correctly. )
1835631;1531860923;asciilifeform;consider how many 'insoluble' engineering problems vanish when you remove the nonsensical 'must work for 8 billion meatsacks' condition.
1835632;1531861831;BingoBoingo;And in local cardboard artwork unveilled before tomorrow's independence day: http://vivirsinmiedo.com.uy/ << The Uruguayos want a Gendarmie, More bodies in prisons, and Night Raids!!!
1835633;1531861848;*;asciilifeform misread 'vivir in mierde'
1835634;1531861857;BingoBoingo;lol
1835635;1531870477;*;mircea_popescu waves
1835636;1531870754;mircea_popescu;!!rated lobbes
1835637;1531870755;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated lobbes 3 at 2017/02/08 17:11:19 << eulora logs + auction bot, and altogether a very solid lordship candidate.
1835638;1531870824;mircea_popescu;!!rate lobbes 3 his lordship the lord of the auction house
1835639;1531870827;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SknFH/?raw=true
1835640;1531871355;mircea_popescu;!!rated spyked
1835641;1531871355;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated spyked 2 at 2017/08/19 17:53:59 << aka Lucian Mogosanu, arm guy and other things. e-known him for years.
1835642;1531871369;mircea_popescu;!!rate spyked 3 his lordship the lord crypto-alchemist
1835643;1531871372;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/l8806/?raw=true
1835644;1531871488;mircea_popescu;ave1 i dunno if you've seen the republican license btw ? not like we give out ~anything~ that's "legally" usable by the pantsuit tards.
1835645;1531871560;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835506 << indeed, and it is quite a wonder i'm still about, right, seeing how slave mutiny could result in my being strangled overnight and therefore it already has. this is mp coming to you loud and clear from the afterlyf ?
1835646;1531871560;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 04:28 ave1: I find the 'if it can happen, it will happen' a strange argument. Let's say you let a friend stay in your house while you are away for a couple of months? Yes, he could destroy the house and steal the contents, still this arrangement works and has worked for many friends.
1835647;1531871709;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835511 << it's really not at all the intention to prevent smart people from improving on the client. if anyone looks even vaguely like he could reverse engineer his pocket flashlight or anything, i'm quite sure he'd find self in some sort of productive arrangement in short order.
1835648;1531871709;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 09:42 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834921 <-- I'm sold on the idea i. in particular for eulora, and ii. otherwise for it to be established on a case-by-case basis. for (i), I see nothing wrong with e.g. challenging users to reverse-engineer the client (or maybe I'm just nostalgic about game cracking/trainers).
1835649;1531871732;mircea_popescu;after all, what the fuck are we even doing here ? not like it has ~yet~ happened someone with head screwed on straight got turned away.
1835650;1531871807;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835516 << you don't take my meaning. the machine doesn't care about your political corectness. it only sees those people involved that are actually people. if your dog shits in my lawn im not gonna complain to dog ; and if idiot miscompiles code into a pile of shit, the machine's mute sadness will not be directed at idiot.
1835651;1531871807;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 09:53 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835039 <-- this imho doesn't make asciilifeform an idiot, it makes user responsible for whatever setup he runs the binary on. the same guarantee would be given for hypothetical linux kernel with changed abi as for mswindows kernel. as much as the word of heathens are not to be trusted, heathen did promise e.g. https://archive.is/KD183#selection-248.64-248.65 . so imho misbehaving kernel will just be
1835652;1531871826;mircea_popescu;because this is what subhumanity is all about : "anonimity", right, the incapacity to mean anything to anyone.
1835653;1531871985;mircea_popescu;!!rated ave1
1835654;1531871985;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated ave1 2 at 2018/05/17 04:02:57 << produced the holy grail : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813760
1835655;1531871997;mircea_popescu;!!rate ave1 3 his lordship the lord logiciel
1835656;1531872000;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VBAal/?raw=true
1835657;1531872205;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835525 << man alone ; just because they fail at anything they try doesn't mean much. of course they do, that's precisely how we ended up with the turdsoup.
1835658;1531872205;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 12:51 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835519 << guilfanov spent years raging at 'pirates', planting boobytraps, even implemented his infamous 'church interdict' against anyone known to employ ida 'traitors' , then still ended up selling his firm to usg.
1835659;1531872316;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835530 << i think it's a very stupid idea, and i don't mean this mildly, but stupid in a superlative way, because what is contemplated is a ~fixed price~ for an ~unspecified product~. this is EXACTLY like sootheby's selling "auction win tickets" whereby you get to win "any one auction". it;s like trying to implement lemon markets where they don't naturally exist, and it screams deep misunder
1835660;1531872316;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 12:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835502 << the commercial lisp people work (worked? prior to being swallowed by usg) this way. e.g. allegro.
1835661;1531872316;mircea_popescu;standing of what anything even is, money, prices, price formation, control, you name it.
1835662;1531872364;mircea_popescu;the only known usage that's defensible is eg usg selling indian's land to white settlers ; and the reason it's defensible has nothing to do with anything here considered, and everything to do with the banal observation that some men are sexually stimulated by a simulacrum of resistence put up by woman.
1835663;1531872389;mircea_popescu;ie, it worked because a) settlers were idiots (which they weren) and b) government was spurious (which it was).
1835664;1531872506;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835532 << yup, a very elegant item indeed. what the empire calls "embargo", essentially.
1835665;1531872506;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 12:57 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835489 << note that it specifically was an example of a seekrit with strictly limited lifespan -- once there are '9000' repeaters, the need to keep the details under wraps vanishes
1835666;1531872657;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835536 << such a fucking injun. how, just HOW does one get so fucking stupid. "jwz" amirite, "he only wanted to". this existence is too burdensome for the likes of special cunthead.
1835667;1531872657;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 13:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835518 << linus is not immortal, and i expect that he will lose control of kernel -- just as he stupidly lost control of his trademark to 'linux foundation' (y'know, with gavin on staff) -- even before dies
1835668;1531872973;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835554 >> no, here we disagree. both rms AND ers lines of socialism (called "free" and "open" source in-universe) are attempting to bake in the conclusion of socialism ("everything that ever crawled out of a cunt is sacred") while allowing you to dispute the conclusions. i am not interested in their idiotic "disputations". the issue, with BOTH approaches, quite indistinguishably, is exactly
1835669;1531872973;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 13:35 asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform's pov re the retardation of 'open sores' , rms et al, is that they are tards not because they throw open the coad to allcomers but because they have no concept of wot , therefore were unable to conceptualize vtronics .
1835670;1531872973;mircea_popescu;what sunk djb in my eyes : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634136
1835671;1531872973;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 17:15 mircea_popescu: but anyway, back to the upstream :  https://archive.is/9zD8D#selection-9.3336-9.4865 the whole thing is rather damaging of bernstein's own standing and credibility. he engages in this sort of behaviours, he isn't much of a man, and certainly the sordid tale of his misbehaviour disabused me of any intention of rating him on the basis of his work.
1835672;1531872976;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835645 << I was just thinking that over a long enough time-span, sekrets tend to not stay sekret, that's all.
1835673;1531872976;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 23:52 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835506 << indeed, and it is quite a wonder i'm still about, right, seeing how slave mutiny could result in my being strangled overnight and therefore it already has. this is mp coming to you loud and clear from the afterlyf ?
1835674;1531873029;mircea_popescu;it is NOT FUCKING PERMISSIBLE to "love all your sons equally". fuck you, there is no such thing, that's for their dumbass mother, because she's too stupid to distinguish cocks (and btw, if your "monogamous" "wife" "loves all her children equally", time to start looking carefully at the milkmen, they contributed to that brood as a foregone conclusion.)
1835675;1531873075;mircea_popescu;so no, in treating all comers equally they PRODUCED the problem. because if father is incapable of rejecting you there's exactly 0 incentive to anything but gabriel_laddelize/adlai/kanzure/etc all fucking day long.
1835676;1531873118;mircea_popescu;the ~fucking reason~ "anonimity" as understood by the "cipherpunk" bla bla idiots (ie, http://trilema.com/2012/anonimity-or-the-urban-versus-rural-dispute/ item) even fucking exists is because of the whole "no identity needed to software".
1835677;1531873121;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835659 << I apologize, I was just being stupid I guess.
1835678;1531873121;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 00:05 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835530 << i think it's a very stupid idea, and i don't mean this mildly, but stupid in a superlative way, because what is contemplated is a ~fixed price~ for an ~unspecified product~. this is EXACTLY like sootheby's selling "auction win tickets" whereby you get to win "any one auction". it;s like trying to implement lemon markets where they don't naturally exist, and it screams deep misunder
1835679;1531873167;mircea_popescu;all modern evil in the field flows from this original sin of the idiots involved, and no it shan't be passed in silence. had they done this right and equally flunked all other parts as they did flunk them, we'd still be mostly-right rather than thoroughly-broken today.
1835680;1531873179;mircea_popescu;not about you, mod6 dun sweat it.
1835681;1531874025;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835659 << iirc allegro was moar complicated than this, tho tbf i am unsure whether less or ~more~ scammy . it was a nonfixed price (no cost for src actually but had to 1) be existing customer and 2) sign seekricy contract ) and price of being customer in turn wasn't 'fixed' ( 'lispworks' co. iirc charged royalties ) . as for 'specified', this was 1 of the rare products where yes specified ( common l
1835682;1531874025;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 00:05 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835530 << i think it's a very stupid idea, and i don't mean this mildly, but stupid in a superlative way, because what is contemplated is a ~fixed price~ for an ~unspecified product~. this is EXACTLY like sootheby's selling "auction win tickets" whereby you get to win "any one auction". it;s like trying to implement lemon markets where they don't naturally exist, and it screams deep misunder
1835683;1531874025;asciilifeform;isp spec + their proprietary tack-ons were publicly specced )
1835684;1531874074;mircea_popescu;yes, but the ~product~ is not specified. if you go to supermarket and buy something, you buy ~the specified something~. it's not an issue of whether "property is specified" in the general sense.
1835685;1531874098;asciilifeform;i dun think i've ever bought a product more exhaustively specified than allegro
1835686;1531874104;asciilifeform;what am i missing here
1835687;1531874105;mircea_popescu;otherwise, go ahead and make me a price on your daughter. "what do you plan on doing with her ?" "none of your damn business".
1835688;1531874124;asciilifeform;aah the ~royaltied~ (customer) product
1835689;1531874128;mircea_popescu;yes.
1835690;1531874173;mircea_popescu;"well it's a different price if you intend to give her half your assets towards the end of your productive life or if you intend to make her salami"
1835691;1531874177;asciilifeform;i dun recall their ever asking ( beyond the traditional 'industrial/academia/usg' selector )
1835692;1531874193;mircea_popescu;so then what the fuck meaning could the pricing possibly fucking have.
1835693;1531874214;mircea_popescu;if you buy a gift certificate from walmart or w/e, it's for ~total cost~ not for ~item count~.
1835694;1531874220;asciilifeform;iirc it was (if 'industrial') a fixed cut of proceeds. which was imho asinine .
1835695;1531874251;mircea_popescu;right, because why am i paying the same % whether i wrote a hello world on top of their allegro or an ai.
1835696;1531874285;asciilifeform;funnily enuff both franz (allegro) and lispworks co. exist still. ( under , afaik, satanic ownership )
1835697;1531874337;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835666 << i actually have 0 handle on what makes linus tick. from his posted material he resembles archaetypical 'alcoholic with moments of clarity'
1835698;1531874337;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 00:10 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835536 << such a fucking injun. how, just HOW does one get so fucking stupid. "jwz" amirite, "he only wanted to". this existence is too burdensome for the likes of special cunthead.
1835699;1531874485;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835563 << i can't imagine how this could ~even in principle~ be broken.
1835700;1531874485;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 13:38 asciilifeform: asciilifeform's perspective is prolly coloured by his having been paid to both make and break such 'protections' in the saeculum many times.
1835701;1531874583;mircea_popescu;i mean... so mocky makes a client, i see his client works, i allocate his binaries signatures, and now evilmocky does what ? doesn't follow server comms spec ? can't connect. is smart enough to follow them, and puts the work in ? can connect, server will report expected hashes. does he distribute this thing, so user can see the hash of his program and the hash the program tells the server don't match ? suppose he does. what n
1835702;1531874583;mircea_popescu;ow ? mocky gets credit for one more user, and evilmocky gets ???
1835703;1531874600;mircea_popescu;i suppose he could root the box, but could have done that way the fuck easier than all this complex dance.
1835704;1531874640;mircea_popescu;there's absolutely nothing breakable here, not even in principle.
1835705;1531874854;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was speaking narrowly of scenario where $luser lifts $expectedhash from $officialclient and has his $shitclient feed server $expectedhash when prompted
1835706;1531874864;mircea_popescu;and this results in ?
1835707;1531874890;asciilifeform;$shitclient operates. which unless i misunderstand was undesirable ?
1835708;1531874906;mircea_popescu;i suppose at the furthermost it could result in 1. luser installing that ; 2. luser being displeased with shitclient performance ; 3. luser whining at mocky ; 4. mocky asking him to check his binary hash.
1835709;1531874909;mircea_popescu;i mean... ?
1835710;1531874917;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nobody cares ABOUT THAT.
1835711;1531874925;mircea_popescu;if it operates mocky gets the credit.
1835712;1531874967;mircea_popescu;if it operates but poorly i suppose the argument could be brought mocky's good reputation is being stained ; however it's so damned easy to check.
1835713;1531874987;mircea_popescu;even windows has terminal ; even there something like hash file exists.
1835714;1531874988;asciilifeform;so hash could just as easily be an arbitrary client id string ?
1835715;1531874993;mircea_popescu;it IS.
1835716;1531875001;asciilifeform;then i've nuffin.
1835717;1531875016;mircea_popescu;cuz there's nothing there.
1835718;1531875026;mircea_popescu;basically you read words and expect they mean imperial meanings. but they fucking don't.
1835719;1531875055;asciilifeform;it very much pattern-matched in my head, what aol did with its chat client ( iirc also demanded 'client hash' as part of protocol )
1835720;1531875069;mircea_popescu;i believe ; but it's a heuristic past its use by date.
1835721;1531875145;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835675 << what part of the 'rms problem' does vtronics per se not cure ?
1835722;1531875145;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 00:17 mircea_popescu: so no, in treating all comers equally they PRODUCED the problem. because if father is incapable of rejecting you there's exactly 0 incentive to anything but gabriel_laddelize/adlai/kanzure/etc all fucking day long.
1835723;1531875176;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835417
1835724;1531875176;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 02:42 asciilifeform: 'they cloink a coupla with the sledgehammer so as to break down the find into shards the size they can fit in a pocket, after which they stick it on their oxcart'
1835725;1531875238;mircea_popescu;there IS such a thing as "you're too fucking stupid and unread to participate in THIS class. go take remedial deheadshittery 101."
1835726;1531875254;asciilifeform;didn't we also have a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687603 thread ?
1835727;1531875254;a111;Logged on 2017-07-20 19:44 mircea_popescu: windows will either compete with tmsr or go away. if it competes -- it becomes. if it goes away -- it becomes. there is no choice and there is no will.
1835728;1531875263;mircea_popescu;yes, but this is the avenue of that!
1835729;1531875305;asciilifeform;if they 'cloink' , either result is the usual unremarkable crud a la the 'fg clone' , or it is a sane production, in the latter case author gets invited here . in the former case, what exactly does it do ? afaik nuffin
1835730;1531875377;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << one think i haven't seen mentioned yet is that this creates a potential security risk, inasmuch as there'd be a real incentive for bad actors to attempt working their way into l1 solely to gain access to source code.
1835731;1531875377;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )
1835732;1531875401;mircea_popescu;"the house is either dirty or clean ; if dirty, it gets cleanned ; if clean, we watc htv". sure. but what's discussed here is the mechanisms of cleanning, specifically, not the general broad theory of housekeep.
1835733;1531875420;asciilifeform;hanbot: of all the possible problems, i can't picture how this, enemy already has all the incentive one could wish for to 'try to work into l1'
1835734;1531875449;asciilifeform;( to which there is http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-16#1325348 )
1835735;1531875449;a111;Logged on 2015-11-16 21:01 ascii_field: would let you wander off to wherever spies go when a war is over. You know why?' he said. 'No,' I said. 'Because you could never have served the enemy as well as you served us,' he said. 'I realized that almost all the ideas that I hold now, that make me unashamed of anything I may have felt or done as a Nazi, came not from Hitler, not from Goebbels, not from Himmler — but from you.' He took my hand. 'You alone kept m
1835736;1531875464;mircea_popescu;hanbot fine, but this is the dilemma : either being in l1 is practically meaningless, in which case nobody cares if they're in or out ; or else l1 is practically meaningful, in which case everybody cares whether they're in or out and consequently some might care to be in just to be in, to assuage the self-knoweldge of inadequacy.
1835737;1531875471;mircea_popescu;seems unavoidable.
1835738;1531875626;hanbot;asciilifeform : possibly code is concrete enough an itam to be perceived by previously blind enemies? if suddenly a gazillion diametrics/amstans/whoever, could get obnoxious too.
1835739;1531875643;hanbot;anyway no, i don't see a way out of the "problem".
1835740;1531875677;mircea_popescu;in the end, all living things are only as alive as their food filtering allows.
1835741;1531875694;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835608 << speaking of diana_coman do you recall where the whole food / pay for server thing was announced ?
1835742;1531875694;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 17:04 diana_coman: the overall idea is to pay authors of clients based on how much their clients are actually used
1835743;1531875697;hanbot;right, at what point is enemy that manages a pass an enemy, etc.
1835744;1531875731;mircea_popescu;hanbot "and this portion of whale liver is ~really~ krill #5460985409865" "what is here meant by really ?"
1835745;1531875732;asciilifeform;hanbot: nobody cancelled 'need to know'(tm) and other traditional mechanisms of prolonging life of seekritz. but i find it worrisome that mircea_popescu seems to think that keeping coad confidential doesn't cost anything. it does cost.
1835746;1531875745;mircea_popescu;what does it cost ?
1835747;1531875764;asciilifeform;it costs for instance that you don't want it on travel lappy etc.
1835748;1531875772;mircea_popescu;uh ?!
1835749;1531875779;mircea_popescu;you mean me or impersonal you ?
1835750;1531875801;asciilifeform;impersonal. the folx other than mircea_popescu , whose travel lappy doesn't go in diplo pouch and guarded in hotel by squad of musketeers.
1835751;1531875813;hanbot;lol
1835752;1531875827;mircea_popescu;lol i misread, "it costs for instance that you don't want to travel with laptop."
1835753;1531875854;mircea_popescu;anyways, yes, i guess there's that, yes. but i mean whom does it cost ? the people owning the code, not you.
1835754;1531875914;asciilifeform;right. hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835598 , some folx can justify to themselves the cost , then why not, pay . there are projects that asciilifeform keeps in zeroizable ram while decrypted. it's a bitch, but in some cases called for.
1835755;1531875914;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 16:04 asciilifeform: Mocky: i in fact do not have objection to it either way, it is a stylistic decision for diana_coman & mircea_popescu , not mine to make
1835756;1531875920;mircea_popescu;the fact that asciilifeform hasn't to date read the (published) eulora client source doesn't cost ~ asciilifeform ~ anything. it costs minigame something, presumably.
1835757;1531875956;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform sure, which is why the ~code author's option~. obviously one's well advised to think about things.
1835758;1531875971;asciilifeform;i've read some possibly asciilifeform-able selections from it ( diana_coman's mpi ) , to date that's iirc all
1835759;1531876005;mircea_popescu;right. because code being open does not mean automatically anything about it being read, at all.
1835760;1531876006;asciilifeform;aha, i have 0 argument against 'author oughta be able to decide to work on proj with selected group in confidence' , why would i.
1835761;1531876008;mircea_popescu;perhaps even on the contrary.
1835762;1531876045;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well i suppose this is basically the thing here -- a relaxation allowing specified mechanisms for a specified sort of "work in confidence" to still count.
1835763;1531876047;asciilifeform;my only disagreement was re the notion that this is necessarily The Right Thing for erry proggy, as some sort of counter to 'rmsism'
1835764;1531876056;mircea_popescu;afaik this was 100% your notion.
1835765;1531876061;asciilifeform;possibly
1835766;1531876106;asciilifeform;my disagreement bottle then is empty.
1835767;1531876419;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835611 << no ; the idea is that there will be separation between objective costs of running (passed on to the client in the shape of food necessities to keep character alive -- starve it long enough and it dies) and the implicitly risky nature of euloran activity. i don't want to get into detail here, but i believe it's the correct approach, allocation, rather than trying a  pauschal approac
1835768;1531876419;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 17:13 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835608 << this was a key piece I was missing as well. For some reason I thought scheme was 'lock down production of binaries so as to allow authors to work out their own pay-for-client mechanism.' Whole thing makes way more sense to me nao
1835769;1531876419;mircea_popescu;h where "your results pay for your ineptitude using the platform as well as my costs providing it".
1835770;1531876450;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do the subscribers currently pay ?
1835771;1531876466;mircea_popescu;now ~a portion of that~ can very well be kicked back to client authors, if nothing else to cover the significant effort of eg a complete reskining. which'd give the player the benefit of "do i want to play this game looking like high fantasy or scandalous nudity"
1835772;1531876471;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not atm.
1835773;1531876475;asciilifeform;ah
1835774;1531876483;asciilifeform;all of this makes considerably moar sense nao.
1835775;1531876554;mircea_popescu;it's not done irl very much because http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835457 ; but if i go to the arcade i'd much prefer an arcade where "you owe us 0.03 cents for electricity + roof ; and 1 dollar because you suck at throwing these damned darts"
1835776;1531876554;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 03:01 mircea_popescu: it is however not the customer's problem that the fair price point for borland whatever is 0.0006 except borland can';t chage that because must be 9.95 or else visa monopoly throws a fit.
1835777;1531876573;mircea_popescu;or vice-versa, "here's your free plushie for throwing things at geese well, and a 0.03 bill for keeping the lights on"
1835778;1531876587;asciilifeform;erry arcade i've ever been to actually worked like this
1835779;1531876594;mircea_popescu;alright then.
1835780;1531876598;asciilifeform;( admittedly the plushies much less plush nao than 20yrs ago )
1835781;1531876736;asciilifeform;anecdote: asciilifeform's elder brother 'lived long enuff' to see sov arcades at length. the infamous 'sea battle' machine universally had a prize compartment, that would open if some outlandish score were achieved. one time, bag of coins, and he managed it. rusty compartment... grinds open. of course empty. arcade keeper 'what did you expect, didja really think you're the first'
1835782;1531876776;asciilifeform;'what was in there' 'who knows'
1835783;1531876794;trinque;this fits with my cartoon head-simulation of the soviet era
1835784;1531876807;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835631 << indeed!
1835785;1531876807;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 20:55 asciilifeform: consider how many 'insoluble' engineering problems vanish when you remove the nonsensical 'must work for 8 billion meatsacks' condition.
1835786;1531876864;mircea_popescu;trinque to be genuine soviet, it was supposed to have been stolen @factory.
1835787;1531876879;asciilifeform;for all anybody knew.. it was
1835788;1531876882;mircea_popescu;so after 6 months of production the decision was taken not to put anything in anymore.
1835789;1531876893;mircea_popescu;so it can be stolen "by the whole people".
1835790;1531876898;mircea_popescu;soviet has its own sort of logic.
1835791;1531876900;asciilifeform;lol
1835792;1531876928;mircea_popescu;i always thought the 80s verbiage about "capitalism more adaptable" was a fucking riot.
1835793;1531876942;mircea_popescu;sovietism A LOT more adaptable, adapted self right into fucking grave, with a whole lotta "spreading works"
1835794;1531876992;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835632 << and by "the uruguayos" we mean the ustard 5th column, of course.
1835795;1531876992;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 21:10 BingoBoingo: And in local cardboard artwork unveilled before tomorrow's independence day: http://vivirsinmiedo.com.uy/ << The Uruguayos want a Gendarmie, More bodies in prisons, and Night Raids!!!
1835796;1531877127;mircea_popescu;if the https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtag/js? / http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623380 fingerprints all over didn't give it away.
1835797;1531877127;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 22:29 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : femen, the "ukrainian" organisation is selling shit priced in dollars via 2checkout.com, the columbus ohio us corp.
1835798;1531877210;asciilifeform;vivirenmierde.com.uy!11
1835799;1531878161;BingoBoingo; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835794 << Naturally
1835800;1531878161;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 01:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835632 << and by "the uruguayos" we mean the ustard 5th column, of course.
1835801;1531879269;mircea_popescu;http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/07/17/discriminatory-code-sharing/ << i'd say this is broadly correct ; though i somewhat disagree with both ave1's take (as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835508 ) as well as diana_coman implict take here ( say in "hat they decide to do with it, if anything, is of course their own call entirely." ) in the following limited sense :
1835802;1531879269;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 04:44 ave1: And the whole thing affirms the power/status of the Lords. I.E. when an author goes against a Lords wishes or AWOL it is then in the power of that Lord to contact another author and give him the source etc.
1835803;1531879376;mircea_popescu;the codas antecessors put on things are not to be ignored wholesale. yes if those antecessors are, esentially, the http://trilema.com/2011/oricine-poate-sa/ notion of "mula", ie indistinct biomass, then whatever they thought they said is incapable of meaning in the first place. yet if those antecessors are actual people with actual keys, what they say is meaningful and the meaning probably important.
1835804;1531879468;mircea_popescu;and so if some guy publishes some piece of software saying "and this is to be used on sundays only", the proper decision before the republican is "do i use it on sundays or do i not use it at all ?". none of this bars discussion, "what the fuck is wrong with you, reiser ?!" nor in extremis "fu, i'll use it when i use it", nor even "in my considered opinion your sunday's my wednesday" reinterpetation.
1835805;1531879499;mircea_popescu;but still, i think the proper view of the matter is in the vein of how romans regarded testaments. because really, every published anything's a will.
1835806;1531879513;mircea_popescu;and the author thereby dies.
1835807;1531879837;mircea_popescu;not butchering the forefathers' work, specifically NOT doing inane miseries like http://trilema.com/2016/there-has-not-yet-been-seen-a-simple-thing-even-if-were-drowning-in-simple-people/ ; or like bowdler's "work" ; or like ~TRANSLATING THE SCRIPTURES~ is an important, perhaps the principal measurement of a culture. the fact that dante's work "is no longer relevant to italian society today" simply means "italian society toda
1835808;1531879837;mircea_popescu;y" is not distinguishable from the african monkeys it spent millenia distinguishing itself from, only to eventually succumb. no more, and nothing else.
1835809;1531879864;mircea_popescu;for which reason i don't think we're to take lightly the author.
1835810;1531882946;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1835265 << anyone willing to audit my converage and see if I'm doing an ok job?
1835811;1531882946;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 17:50 mircea_popescu: AND THEN SAY WHAT IT WAS ABOUT
1835812;1531882992;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835578 << my dad's favorite! (I like demonished man, neh)
1835813;1531882992;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 13:44 asciilifeform: ( recall alfred bester's 'stars my destination' )
1835814;1531883005;esthlos;err demolished
1835815;1531885336;esthlos;btw, funny interaction in fiat world. dude: "so let me guess, you like lisp." esthlos: "wow, how did you get that?" dude: "well, you're a differential geometer" esthlos: "wow, ok" dude: "so you must like excel then" esthlos: "huh??" dude: "well, it's very similar to lisp"
1835816;1531888548;mircea_popescu;similar how ?!
1835817;1531890977;mircea_popescu;esthlos whats a "modle" ?
1835818;1531891772;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/morning-coffee-ocean-side/ << Trilema - Morning coffee ocean side
1835819;1531909213;mats;a peltier teg looks ideal for the parasitic relay power plant
1835820;1531911041;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835801 -> right, I can see that reading although it wasn't my point; by "their call" I mean that they get to evaluate (through whatever process, possibly including "what is wrong with you" or anything else) and decide, not that they ignore upfront ; how would ignoring of author even make sense if code is not ignored ?
1835821;1531911041;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 02:01 mircea_popescu: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/07/17/discriminatory-code-sharing/ << i'd say this is broadly correct ; though i somewhat disagree with both ave1's take (as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835508 ) as well as diana_coman implict take here ( say in "hat they decide to do with it, if anything, is of course their own call entirely." ) in the following limited sense :
1835822;1531913583;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835816 << supposedly excel is "functional, like lisp"
1835823;1531913583;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 04:35 mircea_popescu: similar how ?!
1835824;1531913640;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835817 << you haven't heard? it's all the rage with the youth these days (esthlos needs to run a spellcheck phase)
1835825;1531913640;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 05:16 mircea_popescu: esthlos whats a "modle" ?
1835826;1531914149;diana_coman;is that moodle?
1835827;1531914205;esthlos;diana_coman: heh, it was supposed to be "model"
1835828;1531914222;diana_coman;oh, I see; lol
1835829;1531917171;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835696 << i believe at least in the case of allegro the ownership is the dks/symbolics model (or perhaps soekris model), guy who made it sells it and there's enough sales money to periodically fund developers, add new features, etc (considering that some of the contracts are finance and gov)
1835830;1531917171;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 00:38 asciilifeform: funnily enuff both franz (allegro) and lispworks co. exist still. ( under , afaik, satanic ownership )
1835831;1531917260;phf;the usgistic appearance of the site is a ruse, very similar to soekris in this respect. the main difference from soekris is that there are no manufacturing costs, so can be "alive" for a price of couple of servers
1835832;1531917596;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835681 << in allegro's case the model was (is?) a vendor partnership, they don't sell to all comers. you have to have a sit down where you essentially pitch your project to them and work out a payment structure, some combination of buy in, royalties, etc. similar to some of the banking vendors i worked with, like kx
1835833;1531917596;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 00:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835659 << iirc allegro was moar complicated than this, tho tbf i am unsure whether less or ~more~ scammy . it was a nonfixed price (no cost for src actually but had to 1) be existing customer and 2) sign seekricy contract ) and price of being customer in turn wasn't 'fixed' ( 'lispworks' co. iirc charged royalties ) . as for 'specified', this was 1 of the rare products where yes specified ( common l
1835834;1531917660;asciilifeform;phf: seems like that was lispworks, not allegro
1835835;1531917674;phf;asciilifeform: you have them backwards
1835836;1531917678;asciilifeform;hmm
1835837;1531917705;phf;but i also don't know how you get the source from lispworks, if at all. they have a fixed price list though.
1835838;1531917751;asciilifeform;see, i easily get'em confused, had 1 bought Officially back in usgschwitz, and other -- warez.
1835839;1531917929;asciilifeform;both dead to me nao. i never signed the pact for the src, and i won't use today a compiler for which i lack src, full stop.
1835840;1531917998;phf;are you talking in the context of tmsr, or your commercial work? i had both of them bought at some point, back in my common lisp consulting days it was a no brainer, the cost was always a small fraction of the contract, but the technical advantage immense. but then i don't have the source code for many things that i make my food with
1835841;1531918040;asciilifeform;phf: in commercial work i use things that would turn the strongest stomach. now, as always, speaking of civilized work.
1835842;1531918287;asciilifeform;phf: i suspect that the diff could be accounted for by diff in problem domains; but i did not find the advantage to be 'immense'
1835843;1531918299;asciilifeform;( certainly was advantage, but small )
1835844;1531918509;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835819 << not for sw relay. sw antenna ideally is a 20meter-hypotenuse triangle. in the woods. what in the woods is hot enuff to run a teg ? ( not considering strontium90 barrels here, but compact and inexpensive items. ) afaik pv panel is the only pill.
1835845;1531918509;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 10:20 mats: a peltier teg looks ideal for the parasitic relay power plant
1835846;1531918539;phf;well lispworks has capi, that doesn't have an non-proprietary equivalent, so if your work requires any kind of gui, you're stuck with some very dodgy solutions (in the early days i even used emacs/slime as a gui backed by ccl)
1835847;1531918593;asciilifeform;tru
1835848;1531918664;phf;allegro is batteries included, and if they're not they'll add the batteries for you, so for most practical purposes you don't need to fuck with quicklisp and the variety of dodgy quicklisp packages. but allegro generally made a lot of, i don't know how to put it, old skill lisp-machine-y decisions to make sure your development experience is superior. instead of being sticklers for the standard, and not venturing outside of it, they kept adding nooks an
1835849;1531918664;phf;d crannies that allow for superior experience
1835850;1531918691;asciilifeform;as result it had own tcpip thing, db, etc yes
1835851;1531918718;asciilifeform;and as consequence you become its thrall 'for life' unless you feel like rewriting all yer coad
1835852;1531918753;phf;for example in naggum's "history of time" he talks about having a package tz with symbols for all the timezones, and if you access say tz:est or whatever, the timezone is transparently loaded. can only be done in allegro
1835853;1531918771;asciilifeform;i had this experience prior, with 'mathematica', and was reluctant to repeat it, so largely avoided serious use of the closed lisps.
1835854;1531918800;asciilifeform;phf: sounds like a , what, 100ln proggy
1835855;1531918855;phf;well, 100 ln patch to the compiler, because it can't be done as a user proggy (e.g. (symbol-value 'foo) triggers a mechanism of some sort, without an indirection)
1835856;1531918892;asciilifeform;hm sounds like they're breaking standard then
1835857;1531918913;asciilifeform;in exactly the way that got naggum pissing on franz bavk in the day
1835858;1531918923;mats;asciilifeform: this parasitic relay incorporates esp8266 in urban environment
1835859;1531918925;phf;no why? they don't have to
1835860;1531918947;asciilifeform;mats: ah you were thinking of the old mircea_popescu relay, aite
1835861;1531918982;asciilifeform;phf: how not ? seems like if you add a feature that 'must be in compiler', you ipso facto broke standard
1835862;1531919043;mats;the stamp sized tegs i’ve seen are pricy though, ranging from $5-15
1835863;1531919112;asciilifeform;mats: ever do range test with subj ?
1835864;1531919152;phf;asciilifeform: you can still add a feature without violating the standard, but there's tones of features like that that can only exist as part of compiler and also not violate a standard. lazy symbol is a particularly good example: the symbol behaves according to standard, but accessing its value "stops the world" for all practical purposes, calls some other machinery, "resumes the world" with the value provided by machinery.
1835865;1531919201;asciilifeform;phf: holyfuq, what is this if not breaking standard ? standard permits no such horror
1835866;1531919228;phf;asciilifeform: please show me where "permits no such horrors"
1835867;1531919230;mats;asciilifeform: nope
1835868;1531919250;asciilifeform;phf: i cannot show you, as it does not mention every possible abuse, lol
1835869;1531919281;phf;you should know that common lisp standard is not the whole, but rather the top, i.e. the commonality of features between multiple lisp machines. there are parts that explicitly under specified to allow for a variety of behaviors
1835870;1531919291;asciilifeform;phf: but asciilifeform is a subscriber to the 'what is not mandatory is forbidden' school of prog lang standard.
1835871;1531919293;phf;particularly since that particular autoload machinery was already in genera
1835872;1531919359;asciilifeform;phf: i do know, yes, that the standard was stunted at birth.
1835873;1531919398;asciilifeform;and broken by erry vendor in existence . but this is not a point of pride, imho, for it.
1835874;1531919688;phf;standard by they way allows for a subset of "such horrors" in form of symbol-macrolet
1835875;1531920196;asciilifeform;tru
1835876;1531920363;asciilifeform;phf: as you can prolly tell, asciilifeform has an old-fashioned, ГОСТ-like view of standards. in that a standard really ~must~ specifically make vendor lock-in impossible. and if it fails to do this, it is broken and oughta be corrected ( or thrown out. )
1835877;1531920407;asciilifeform;think 'iso m3 screw' .
1835878;1531920668;asciilifeform;cl standard is substantially closer to an ~actual~ standard than, e.g., c++, in the it is ~actually possible~ to program in standard cl. but it really gotta be reopened ( perhaps one day, tmsr cl?? ) and completed.
1835879;1531920732;asciilifeform;amstan (~amstan@aichallenge/admin/amstan) has joined #trilema << lol!!
1835880;1531921284;phf;asciilifeform: oh yeah, i get it, the approach requires a GOST cpu with a GOST bus etc. etc. right now the situation is mildly depressing (though perhaps that's not the right word), even Ada standard turned out to be dodgy (very precisely specifies some shitty solutions)
1835881;1531921330;asciilifeform;phf: say what you will re ada standard, but e.g. ffa is ( afaik! ) a nontrivial and at same time ada2012-compliant proggy.
1835882;1531921382;phf;asciilifeform: vtools are also ada2012 complaint, but...
1835883;1531921394;asciilifeform;( ~ffa_calc~ is not, as it uses a gnatism to grab the commandline args. )
1835884;1531921451;asciilifeform;ada standard is just about a hair's breadth away from a proper , Troo standard.
1835885;1531921474;asciilifeform;( i.e. one where you can dispense with all vendorisms )
1835886;1531921514;phf;as far as ada is concerned, the tmsr ada is a subset of standard, that only exists in your head, and can be somewhat inferred from ffa. that's no standard
1835887;1531921536;asciilifeform;subset -> complies with standard.
1835888;1531921555;asciilifeform;( though yes, eventually i would like to codify the subset as a standard in own right. )
1835889;1531921580;phf;or is tmsr ada whatever ave1 put into his musl build, which is, worse, a political situation. diana_coman can argue for her ffi stuff to be included, should i be arguing for my get/put stuff to be included?
1835890;1531921602;asciilifeform;phf: why would either of these belong in a compiler ?!
1835891;1531921628;asciilifeform;phf: ave1's item is simply a frozen snapshot of (iirc 2016) gnat.
1835892;1531921708;phf;asciilifeform: if you haven't looked, ave1's item is a significantly cut subset of ada's standard, where, e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc/tree/adainclude/a-textio.ads is text_io (compare to real text_io)
1835893;1531921765;asciilifeform;phf: are we speaking of http://ave1.org/2018/building-gnat-on-musl-updated-tar-line/ or http://ave1.org/2018/gnat-zero-foot-print-take-2-no-c/ ? these are separate items
1835894;1531921810;phf;oh i was talking about the later, since that's the avant guard of the ada situation
1835895;1531921864;phf;but i remember diana_coman saying something about her code not compiling in ave1's because interfaces.c is not included. i'm not sure if she was talking about the former or the later
1835896;1531921884;asciilifeform;phf: noshit, most c proggy won't build on a gcc with no libc!
1835897;1531921921;asciilifeform;when folx must write with no libc, i.e. bios work, they make own and include with the coad.
1835898;1531921974;asciilifeform;i posted a simple example of this kind of thing, earlier, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832319
1835899;1531921974;a111;Logged on 2018-07-06 17:09 asciilifeform: 'make emu' builds variant that runs in qemu and (if you have x86-64 qemu) boots it. 'make sage' ditto but boots on a cold sage ( see http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1887 & elsewhere ) . 'make sage-warm' boots on a warm sage.
1835900;1531921988;phf;interfaces.c is not a libc concern, it's an ffi. the situation is that C can't be linked to an Ada, even if the C part has _no libc_ in it
1835901;1531922008;asciilifeform;hm
1835902;1531922029;asciilifeform;admittedly i haven't tested the avant guard ave1 item yet.
1835903;1531922077;asciilifeform;but given as i do not expect most nontrivial c proggies to build with it, i suspect that the 2 compilers will remain in use in parallel for a while.
1835904;1531922099;asciilifeform;imho a trooly clean gnat will be entirely devoid of cisms.
1835905;1531922136;asciilifeform;( or at the very least, will connect them to a default-off toggle switch. )
1835906;1531922140;phf;ah, that explains the misunderstandings. ave1's no-c compiler has a completely custom ada runtime library, which is a tiny subset of the whole standard. http://btcbase.org/patches/zfp_2_noc/tree/ the adainclude part
1835907;1531922160;asciilifeform;phf: adacore actually distributes a compiler like this. but it is commercialware, and i've never seen it.
1835908;1531922184;asciilifeform;it's what the space probe etc. stuff gets built with.
1835909;1531922236;phf;asciilifeform: i thought that you were arguing that the subset of ada runtime that's included in zfp "ought to be enough for everyone", since at the moment i believe it compiles ffa, my apologies.
1835910;1531922245;asciilifeform;phf: my specific motivation in asking ave1 for this, was to enable building e.g. ffa where binary is small enuff to manually disasm and audit.
1835911;1531922259;asciilifeform;( as well as fitting into microcontrollers and other non-x86 )
1835912;1531922331;phf;right, an ada with an absolute minimum/custom runtime
1835913;1531922332;asciilifeform;phf: first it must work with asciilifeform's item . and only then i can dare to speak of 'enuff for erryone!'.
1835914;1531922394;phf;i'm starting to think that maybe it doesn't (my memory of logs are hazy on that point, perhaps ave1 mentioned that he's working on getting ffa_calc working), because i believe you're also using interfaces.c at least to declare the types that you get in/out of c system calls
1835915;1531922427;asciilifeform;phf: iirc i used cism for put/get on stdio, and for cmdline.
1835916;1531922456;asciilifeform;( there isn't actually an alternative, aside from -- respectively -- using gnat's gargantual text_io lib, and permitting secondarystackism. )
1835917;1531922469;asciilifeform;*gargantuan
1835918;1531922497;asciilifeform;in embedded machine , will point out, neither knob is necessary
1835919;1531922516;asciilifeform;( hence why the logic is brought out to ffa_calc, rather than part of the lib proper -- to emphasize this )
1835920;1531922610;asciilifeform;ave1 iirc is currently in the process of baking cheap and angry asm-on-x64-linux replacements for both knobs.
1835921;1531922633;asciilifeform;( working from asm examples that asciilifeform posted recently )
1835922;1531922651;ave1;phf, asciilifeform's ffacalc uses only a few C functions all for IO / exit and command line arguments. I just have to provide the right functions in the ZFP library for ffacalc (currently first on conveyor but also some real life priorities these weeks)
1835923;1531922685;ave1;yes the other thing is to get the os out and I'm reading your code
1835924;1531922762;phf;i took a different approach, i wrote _to ada standard_ with the idea that each interface can be substituted with a custom system specific replacement. for example my character_io is a new_line aware replacement of the original, that relies on ada.sequential_io. now if i wanted to retarget to small machine, i'd write a custom sequential_io that uses machine specific calls for byte read/write
1835925;1531922792;asciilifeform;phf: i can't say this is a wrong approach
1835926;1531922820;asciilifeform;phf: it will require moar massage to actually produce a compact binary, and so i did not go with it; but it is still prolly The Right Thing long-term
1835927;1531922841;ave1;phf, yes that's the right approach
1835928;1531922859;asciilifeform;phf: when i started out, i had no notion that anyone would help me by producing a working libc-less gnat.
1835929;1531922871;asciilifeform;assumed that i would have to do it with own hands.
1835930;1531922942;ave1;for overview there will probably will be about 6 flavours of zfp I think based on: MUSL C, X86_64 ASM + linux, X86_64 ASM + no os, AARCH64 + linux, AARCH64 + no os.
1835931;1531922970;asciilifeform;phf: observe however that it is impossible to make use of your approach re cmdline args. the standard unambiguously mandates variably-lenghted strings ( i.e. dualstackism ) for that.
1835932;1531922997;asciilifeform;phf: so i explicitly rejected the standard's routine.
1835933;1531923041;asciilifeform;to date this is asciilifeform's only explicit crossing-out of ada2012 standard's item.
1835934;1531923051;ave1;the same with interfaces.c, a version without secondary stack can be easily made (I have one already, simple method of cutting out functions), but is then not really ada standard anymore.
1835935;1531923105;asciilifeform;observe that the standard specifically permits disabling secondary stack. but what it doesn't do, is to give you any means of using such things as cmdline args, if you do this.
1835936;1531923119;asciilifeform;( the spaceprobes people, afaik, handle the problem asciilifeform's way. )
1835937;1531923185;asciilifeform;btw did i ever discuss why i forbid the secondary stack ?
1835938;1531923198;asciilifeform;can't seem to find this discussion in the logs, so i'll summarize , for noobs :
1835939;1531923209;phf;i suspect spaceprobes people don't ever need to start a fresh program either, in a conventional sense
1835940;1531923235;asciilifeform;secondary stack not only requires a fairly bulky bit of initialization logic in erry binary, but also makes it very difficult to reason conclusively about proggy's space usage
1835941;1531923308;asciilifeform;phf: for all i know, ~today's~ spaceprobes fly with java on winblowz. i am speaking of the 'golden age' 1980s-1990s items.
1835942;1531923365;asciilifeform;ave1: dun forget 'mips + no os'
1835943;1531923395;asciilifeform;ave1: that'll be the gold medalist, as it will run on ice40 , i.e. 'tmsr cpu'.
1835944;1531923418;ave1;asciilifeform, noted!
1835945;1531923443;*;asciilifeform brb,tea
1835946;1531923455;ave1;btw I understood that esa still uses Leon processors with ADA
1835947;1531923482;ave1;also, for the adacore minimal images look at: https://github.com/AdaCore/bb-runtimes
1835948;1531923494;phf;asciilifeform: yes, they do, i did some research into subj and it's literally java on winblows
1835949;1531923540;ave1;I've played little with the bb-runtimes but the whole build process is based python + gprbuild and needs at least ada 2017 sources.
1835950;1531923581;phf;unlike tmsr, adacore people are not attempting to also _build_ on a spaceprobe ;)
1835951;1531923656;ave1;yes, and they will happily import any old project these days (new code analys framework is based on python, even llvm is now imported etc.)
1835952;1531923728;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835829 << no but consider. 1) the guy who makes the least useful (as measured by -- usage) end product has  to pay the LEAST in royalties. why ? 2) the guy who makes the most useful end product has to pay the most. why the fuck ? any correct model will have wta, the one guy who owes you most in "royalties" pays 0 because as per the hobbyst discussion etc, he's the guy actually driving your e
1835953;1531923728;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 12:32 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835696 << i believe at least in the case of allegro the ownership is the dks/symbolics model (or perhaps soekris model), guy who made it sells it and there's enough sales money to periodically fund developers, add new features, etc (considering that some of the contracts are finance and gov)
1835954;1531923728;mircea_popescu;xistence altogether. http://trilema.com/2013/youre-the-guy-who-wasnt-good-enough-to-sling-dope/#selection-73.121-73.177 and all that.
1835955;1531923761;mircea_popescu;so no, under no possible lens whatsoever is the "model" anything but the shoddy attempt by the millitantly ignorant to use their steelworking tools & expertise to do "genetic engineering" with.
1835956;1531923815;mircea_popescu;"oh, evidently our model doesn't work, so let's make it % rather than absolute". "yes fuckwit, because these aren't tools, and their use need no justification. they're just toys, for you to play with, oh don't use the scalpel, use the tweezer like thing, looks like this is more of a pull together than a cut apart thingee".
1835957;1531923895;mircea_popescu;phf you see my point ?
1835958;1531923972;ave1;mircea_popescu, what does WTA mean?
1835959;1531923979;mircea_popescu;winner takes all.
1835960;1531924000;mircea_popescu;and to take this discussion on the proper level of generalisation : there's a very strict difference between sanity and idiocy, illustrated best by the http://trilema.com/2018/muma-lui-stefan-cel-mare/#selection-217.0-217.83 vs  Luke 15:11-32 in the faux xtian bullshit.
1835961;1531924077;mircea_popescu;specifically : if say BingoBoingo decided to buy himself a farm in that republica oriental ; and if on that farm other than the venezuelana an' the peruana he added a columbiana and whatever else ; and if those produced him over some years a good three dozen offspring, good heifers that they were ; and if his sperm was so utterly macho that all the x'n commited suicide on the spurt out of sheer shame leaving nothing but boys
1835962;1531924077;mircea_popescu;in his lordship's wake
1835963;1531924142;mircea_popescu;THEN bingoboingo would have the following dilemma before him : either tax the one or two products in that tree dozen that are actually smarter than him even, so with the proceeds to buy crutches and prosthetics for the half dozen mongoloids necessarily included by mother nature in the discount three dozen, so as to vaguely push them into a cvasi-semblance of normalcy
1835964;1531924152;phf;vaguely, but i don't know how their real model maps into the failure model we're considering
1835965;1531924171;mircea_popescu;or else to chain the retards to a pole and have them spin it under the whip until they day, to give the one or two kids worth the hassle electricity so they can be online.
1835966;1531924194;mircea_popescu;it's this-or-that, either steal from the worthy to "fix" the unworthy, or else squeeze the unworthy to empower the worthy.
1835967;1531924196;phf;they don't have a pure royalties approach, it's not "well, you'll be making $1mil so you gotta pay us $100k" or similar
1835968;1531924208;mircea_popescu;does that help ?
1835969;1531924778;phf;it's highly likely that their model though is fundamentally contrary to what is being considered, because it's also fundamentally contrary to what pretty much every american artisan does: when you find a rich account, you milk them for all they worth, while giving your work out to poor ones because "building business". in this case franz's failure is systematic, there's nothing else to say. but i believe that given the overall failure they never the le
1835970;1531924778;phf;ss attempted to have a more sensible approach in the right direction
1835971;1531924792;mircea_popescu;in any case, the "fatted calf" that the inept father cut was fucking stolen, and if i sat in judgement over the matter he'd sure as dingleberries hang for it.
1835972;1531924829;mircea_popescu;phf the principal objection is that team of engineers and designers had no apparent fucking inkling that yes, a price structure is something to design.
1835973;1531925691;phf;i don't understand how that's the conclusion, i don't see how if it's done badly (which is not quite clear from even what i know, certainly not from log hearsay) it means that it wasn't done at all
1835974;1531925837;mircea_popescu;well, there's ways to try and fail, and there's ways to not even try at all (and still fail, of course). it seems to me (and maybe i misunderstand) that their efforts are of the latter.
1835975;1531925860;mircea_popescu;you wouldn't credit a maid with a baseball bat in hand that she's "trying to dust the porcelain" and all the shattered fragments about are "accidents", would you ?
1835976;1531925894;mircea_popescu;if she really were trying to do you the service she pretends rather than disservice, she'd be holding a fucking rag.
1835977;1531926036;phf;my understanding of how they work is that they have some kind of financial goal (say $100k per engagement), they know that usually they can't get it upfront, because nobody expects to pay for software, particularly this kind of outlandish numbers. so they have a sit down with you and figure out how you can pay them $100k by other means. taking royalties is one of the possible solutions. of course you can always just meet their price
1835978;1531926102;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835741 -> in 2 parts that I know of: http://trilema.com/2013/statements-regarding-the-mmorpg-under-development-i-v/#selection-41.646-41.733 and http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/04/17/rfc-euloras-communication-protocol-eucomms/#selection-55.5-55.194
1835979;1531926102;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 01:01 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835608 << speaking of diana_coman do you recall where the whole food / pay for server thing was announced ?
1835980;1531926136;diana_coman;I think it was mentioned at other times too but I don't quite recall something else focusing on this or fleshing it out more
1835981;1531926204;phf;you can request and get an explicit price list, with some sort of all comer common options that worked in the past. all of this is hearsay though, because i wasn't the one talking to them when the license was acquired (i was doing mere programming work)
1835982;1531926293;phf;but for all i know they have a traditional american sales approach, where you ask them for license, and they size you up as to how much they can get out of you, and there's pure winging it. i'm missing the "baseball in hands" part though, that's an indicator one way or another.
1835983;1531926604;mircea_popescu;phf and the batshit insane situation of "x per y" doesn't strike as altogether broken ?
1835984;1531926654;mircea_popescu;suppose instead of http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-16.log.html#t15:27:14 i "sat down" with mocky to see "how can he pay me 100 bitcoin through other means", because "nobody expects to pay for management". something like that ?!
1835985;1531926656;lobbesbot;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:27:14: <mircea_popescu> what would you need to quit that dumb shit and dedicate yourself full time to making eulora client that doesn't suck ass ?
1835986;1531926887;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835982 << at one time , on usg throne, i was on receiving end of this treatment, wolfram co flew in emissaries to pitch their various bells an' whistles and 'see how much they can get'
1835987;1531926887;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 15:04 phf: but for all i know they have a traditional american sales approach, where you ask them for license, and they size you up as to how much they can get out of you, and there's pure winging it. i'm missing the "baseball in hands" part though, that's an indicator one way or another.
1835988;1531926914;asciilifeform;( spoiler : they went home empty )
1835989;1531927038;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835984 << hah, interesting, i had nfi that Mocky was a grandfather
1835990;1531927038;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 15:10 mircea_popescu: suppose instead of http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-16.log.html#t15:27:14 i "sat down" with mocky to see "how can he pay me 100 bitcoin through other means", because "nobody expects to pay for management". something like that ?!
1835991;1531927342;*;Mocky is grandfather and also other unlikely things
1835992;1531927484;asciilifeform;http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-17.log.html#t00:02:23 << can be 40 - 50% if you're cursed correctly ( i.e. no mortgagism to subtract, no low-taxable 'investment' incomes, etc, just labour )
1835993;1531927485;lobbesbot;Logged on 2018-07-17 00:02:23: <mircea_popescu> i can't believe income tax for 100k a year is <20%.
1835994;1531927490;mircea_popescu;phf specifically, i do not believe "they know that usually they can't get it upfront, because nobody expects to pay for software" is at all related. rather, "they know it makes no sense to get before-the-shipping money". because think in terms of those who invented commerce, to wit http://trilema.com/2014/the-most-serene-republic-and-its-laws/#selection-69.178-69.401 : what the fuck sense does it make for he to pay you ~befor
1835995;1531927490;mircea_popescu;e~ the ships return ?
1835996;1531927609;mircea_popescu;and this sort of sheer lunacy of misexpression, coupled with shocking, indefensible idiocies like ~a magic number~ (really, how the fuck was it obtained, anything OTHER than the usual http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-07#1563435 prolonged into adulthood by that all-powerful pill of neoteny, "hurr durr i am an engineer, aka professional, aka no more pressure to mature" ?) is exactly what composes the metaphorical baseball bat i s
1835997;1531927609;a111;Logged on 2016-11-07 17:27 mircea_popescu: of course, most of this "money" isn't much more substantial than the imaginary fortunes of adolescents cycling through their fantasy business career after fapping and pre falling asleep.
1835998;1531927609;mircea_popescu;aw.
1835999;1531927704;phf;mircea_popescu: you pay for ships before the ships sail out though, they are artisans, but in a world where nobody buys ships anymore, instead sail on patched up dinghies. so they loan you a ship, and you maybe pay it off from your returns
1836000;1531927715;mircea_popescu;nobody bought ships. never.
1836001;1531927732;mircea_popescu;ships were rented&insured.
1836002;1531927770;mircea_popescu;by the way, you know the anglo-dutch war lulz ? how the respective nations (if we can call england that) procured their needed warships ?
1836003;1531927802;phf;well, that's where the parallel breaks down, because renting software doesn't work in a straightforward way. hence all the secrecy with source code and nda's
1836004;1531927811;mircea_popescu;why not ?
1836005;1531927841;mircea_popescu;"programming computers" also doesn't work "in a straightforward way". man with wooden stick gets nowhere.
1836006;1531927852;mircea_popescu;what's hiding behind that straightforward scotsman ?
1836007;1531927868;phf;there's an explicit give and explicit return
1836008;1531927890;mircea_popescu;(i know from experience, btw. i am probably the one here who has physically punished most ic. and yes i do mean with wooden sticks. and axes and machetes and so on.)
1836009;1531927982;phf;perhaps loaning worked with lisp machines (i know APL machines could be loaned), could loan one, eventually you return it
1836010;1531928004;mircea_popescu;phf it's clearly a family arrangement. what, they never read saussure ? what happened to the olde "give us a woman from your house" ?
1836011;1531928083;phf;well, so it goes back to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835969 their fault is for being born and staying a particular kind of american
1836012;1531928083;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 14:39 phf: it's highly likely that their model though is fundamentally contrary to what is being considered, because it's also fundamentally contrary to what pretty much every american artisan does: when you find a rich account, you milk them for all they worth, while giving your work out to poor ones because "building business". in this case franz's failure is systematic, there's nothing else to say. but i believe that given the overall failure they never the le
1836013;1531928112;mircea_popescu;cuz never thought about it.
1836014;1531928182;mircea_popescu;but anyway, seems to me evident that the ~only way something like that could have worked was as monastic order, ie, harem, not as "company" ie "nuclear family" takeoff. "prove to us you can use this compiler for anything and you can move at franz hq and hang out with us / party with the hussies."
1836015;1531928206;mircea_popescu;it is, after all, how washington dc scam peddles its sad oils, isn't it ?
1836016;1531928269;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is. ( tho they also have satellite gulags in other parts of continent, and in various colonies )
1836017;1531928274;mircea_popescu;right.
1836018;1531928283;phf;well, that last one applies more to me and my people (like asciilifeform), rather than franz
1836019;1531928286;mircea_popescu;producing http://trilema.com/2017/in-case-you-were-wondering-where-all-the-worthless-nuland-drones-ended-up/
1836020;1531928297;mircea_popescu;phf yes, but why.
1836021;1531928477;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835974
1836022;1531928477;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 14:57 mircea_popescu: well, there's ways to try and fail, and there's ways to not even try at all (and still fail, of course). it seems to me (and maybe i misunderstand) that their efforts are of the latter.
1836023;1531928678;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835956 << i suspect that logic of poverty was at work (i.e. 'if we can't gross 500k , by whatever means, the landlord will take back the office and the programmers will go home' )
1836024;1531928678;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 14:23 mircea_popescu: "oh, evidently our model doesn't work, so let's make it % rather than absolute". "yes fuckwit, because these aren't tools, and their use need no justification. they're just toys, for you to play with, oh don't use the scalpel, use the tweezer like thing, looks like this is more of a pull together than a cut apart thingee".
1836025;1531928694;mircea_popescu;seems quite likely.
1836026;1531928700;phf;which is exactly that. the reason why i'm failing to see the point of this line of conversation, is because their latter is universal, that's the pond they were born into and that's how they live. you can pick up literally any aspect of their lives and find a way in which it's not like "mp and mocky" interaction above
1836027;1531928724;mircea_popescu;phf mocky has the exact same excuse.
1836028;1531928771;mircea_popescu;yes, i'm aware, we're all alive, and that means periodically we evacuate. faecal matter, of all things. now tell me again why there's shit in the soup ?!
1836029;1531928826;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: usa is this enchanted land of fleadom where it is in fact possible to '7k for 20 yrs' and still have 0 serious capital, cuz weevils eat ~100% of it
1836030;1531928834;mircea_popescu;oh, i know.
1836031;1531928864;mircea_popescu;hence the leaves metaphor.
1836032;1531928887;asciilifeform;so , lacking evidence to the contrary, i suspect that the man is ( like asciilifeform ) a pauper.
1836033;1531928911;mircea_popescu;well no. unlike asciilifeform the man has seven sons he'll get bridegeld for.
1836034;1531928924;asciilifeform;only if he makes his way to afganistan , lol
1836035;1531928977;asciilifeform;( in usa, 7 sons more typically are 7 people begging for beer money )
1836036;1531929000;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, you'd be surprised what % of (male) ustards belabouring under the delusion they're "doms" served a tour or more. somehow they fail to see the problem. "but... you're retarded" "so ? smarts are not needed." "umm..."
1836037;1531929044;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ping their dependopotami, let'em know the old dog broke loose from chain..
1836038;1531929076;mircea_popescu;nah, it's usually "genuine" enough, in the sense soltero dood has a basement with some stuff in it, some hunks of wood "designed and produced by yours truly" and so on.
1836039;1531929112;asciilifeform;'chukcha is pilot, here is airplane from walrus tusks and dried deer shit'
1836040;1531929137;mircea_popescu;anyway. sorta thing used to be a lot more of a problem back in ye olde days before democracy (ie, fifty or so years ago). "what do you mean in spite of all this equipment wasted on my stupid ass i still aren't all that cool ?!" used to be the jew boy lament.
1836041;1531929160;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform quite something like that. elliot is the hallowed imago for a reason, after all.
1836042;1531929211;asciilifeform;'where have you flown, chukcha?' 'every night i eat mushroom and fly to upper tundra'
1836043;1531929242;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's very funny to me, all the shots in us army vehicles hand-personalized ("DEATh"!!!) and so on, barely visible under helmets, these very tough-ass kiddos.
1836044;1531929260;mircea_popescu;somehow the point where some people are regularly handing them their ass with a handful of camel shit doesn't at all raise.
1836045;1531929287;mircea_popescu;somehow the fact that they gotta go to a market exactly like the women, under heavy guard and always letting daddy know where they are doesn't AT ALL percolate through brain.
1836046;1531929298;mircea_popescu;"how come these doods my age don't need to carry 50lbs of shit to be here?"
1836047;1531929317;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: helmet, nazi goggles very convenient, can pass off beer buddy's photo as own
1836048;1531929344;mircea_popescu;yeah but i mean... of course, bimbos interchangeable, that's the point of the repeater high heels.
1836049;1531929360;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/gun-rights-activist-that-happens-to-be-from-russia-arrested-in-us-under-foreign-agents-registration-act/ << Qntra - Gun Rights Activist That Happens To Be From Russia Arrested In US Under "Foreign Agents Registration Act"
1836050;1531929384;mircea_popescu;lmao teh police state getting tough on spies ?
1836051;1531929391;mircea_popescu;doctors' trial when!
1836052;1531929408;BingoBoingo;Maybe September?
1836053;1531929415;mircea_popescu;i so look forward to this.
1836054;1531929570;BingoBoingo;I can't wait for the congress critter that start getting prosecuted as British and German agents by the Trumpreich
1836055;1531929602;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: thus far d00d seems unable to enthrone a nonpantsuit head prosecutor..
1836056;1531929647;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835840 << which would be the necessary end result of inept arrangements, a roomfull of people who think you're an idiot (or in other words, passively selecting for only those for whom your formula works out to relative epsilon necessarily selects for people to whom you're a pest and no more).
1836057;1531929647;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 12:46 phf: are you talking in the context of tmsr, or your commercial work? i had both of them bought at some point, back in my common lisp consulting days it was a no brainer, the cost was always a small fraction of the contract, but the technical advantage immense. but then i don't have the source code for many things that i make my food with
1836058;1531929680;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo no chinese ?
1836059;1531929688;mircea_popescu;could get ~whole senate impeached just about now.
1836060;1531929769;BingoBoingo;Trump is set to get a better Senate sworn in after this mid term, it's like fishing. Sometimes you have to keep feeding slack and let the scalebeast wear itself out lest the line break
1836061;1531929816;mircea_popescu;oyu got something there.
1836062;1531929893;BingoBoingo;I mean in a couple months he will have a majority on the Supreme Court. Through at least January all he has to do is abide, keep baiting, and let the pantsuits keep exhausting themselves with runs into insanity
1836063;1531930207;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1836056 << i also don't have means of reproducing the majority of physical objects i use, including the machine my tools run on. i have to ask is that a hypothetical roomfull or we're talking #trilema specifically?
1836064;1531930207;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 16:00 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835840 << which would be the necessary end result of inept arrangements, a roomfull of people who think you're an idiot (or in other words, passively selecting for only those for whom your formula works out to relative epsilon necessarily selects for people to whom you're a pest and no more).
1836065;1531930242;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Start thinking of quality of life stuff you want investigated for your visit to Uruguay since it appears you will be visiting with an eye towards immigrating.
1836066;1531930593;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835844 << this immediately sent me thinking about http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/cultura-vizualas.jpg which in turn led me to the coco chanel discussion. i expect the designer of the future comes up with a way to include antena in clothing, have whole thing powered by puttplug/anal hook.
1836067;1531930593;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 12:55 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835819 << not for sw relay. sw antenna ideally is a 20meter-hypotenuse triangle. in the woods. what in the woods is hot enuff to run a teg ? ( not considering strontium90 barrels here, but compact and inexpensive items. ) afaik pv panel is the only pill.
1836068;1531930596;mircea_popescu;that'd be warm enough.
1836069;1531930614;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unfortunately wont work for sw
1836070;1531930650;mircea_popescu;phf i was talking about the "collected people who use lisp" as a roomful there. and i very much doubt you can't reproduce anything you effectually use. of course, couldn't vs wouldn't distinction.
1836071;1531930659;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why not!
1836072;1531930681;mircea_popescu;women wore complex clothes before...
1836073;1531930694;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: need at least 20M long antenna, and at least 1M away from ground, and made of something reasonably conductive and not friable (i.e. not meat)
1836074;1531930709;mircea_popescu;hanbot don't these sound like some epic hats ?
1836075;1531930716;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: would work for short-range (line of sight) radio tho, 500MHz+
1836076;1531930765;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: in re sw, there was some work in '70s re using ~trees~ as antennae, but afaik went nowhere (at least publicly)
1836077;1531930784;mircea_popescu;seems kite's tail still the most practical, but anyway.
1836078;1531930791;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835846 << the sadness of this coming down to gui...
1836079;1531930791;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 12:55 phf: well lispworks has capi, that doesn't have an non-proprietary equivalent, so if your work requires any kind of gui, you're stuck with some very dodgy solutions (in the early days i even used emacs/slime as a gui backed by ccl)
1836080;1531930799;mircea_popescu;aluminum siding all the way.
1836081;1531930810;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: kite no good for stationary repeater. state of the art is prolly item hanging from tall branch.
1836082;1531930822;mircea_popescu;how's tricks ben_vulpes
1836083;1531930827;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834927 << i'd not distribute anything but trb patches to allcomers ~already~; if i made a useful thing i'd trivially share the source for it with l1 and rely on y'alls judgement as to whom to further share it with but i wouldn't concern myself with preventing leaks-to-kloinkers. beyond that, i share certain specific source with a subset of my own l1 and no further, with a
1836084;1531930827;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:44 mircea_popescu: thoughts plox! (and i specifically want everyone to say at least an ack, so let's page asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo danielpbarron diana_coman hanbot lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque )
1836085;1531930829;ben_vulpes;very explicit understanding between the men involved that we're far better off not sharing further than doing so.
1836086;1531930842;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: looking up!
1836087;1531930845;mircea_popescu;nice.
1836088;1531930854;asciilifeform;oh hey hey hey lbj
1836089;1531930913;phf;mircea_popescu: oh oh i get the point
1836090;1531930943;ben_vulpes;not to derail, but i've learned quite a bit about what neurofolk call the "default mode network" over the past two weeks
1836091;1531930957;mircea_popescu;phf there's a strong undertone of "these people are trading the grains for the chaffs" throughout.
1836092;1531930966;hanbot;<mircea_popescu> hanbot don't these sound like some epic hats ? << lol, that they do. the question is, wtf is a "puttplug"?
1836093;1531930967;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes do tell ?
1836094;1531930974;mircea_popescu;ahahaha. buttplug.
1836095;1531930983;mircea_popescu;i had the wrong unicode page selected.
1836096;1531930997;mircea_popescu;unicorne*
1836097;1531931008;hanbot;ahahaha
1836098;1531931028;mircea_popescu;teh puttplug goes in teh unicorne bage.
1836099;1531931052;ben_vulpes;the gist i get is that there's several physical regions that see high bloodflow when the mind is in an idle state that are correlated with "ruminantive"/"obsessive" thinking that are grouped by experts as "the default mode network"
1836100;1531931079;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1640167
1836101;1531931079;a111;Logged on 2017-04-07 18:24 mircea_popescu: no, let's also de-equivocate think. there's two kinds of think, one's a forge/reflow/examination of trees resulting in analytical consumption of inputs with actionable outputs guaranteed ; the other is a neurotic behaviour perhaps best described as spinning, whereby specific emotional triggers / detriggers are visited in succession. the prussian model was never concerned with the former in any sense, but merely aimed to elimi
1836102;1531931104;mircea_popescu;quite.
1836103;1531931112;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: aha, precisely!
1836104;1531931138;mircea_popescu;yes, de-training girl from spinning behaviour essential component of housebroken woman.
1836105;1531931190;mircea_popescu;(evolutionarily, if anyone's curious, it's a key component of how they "fall in love", because there's need for some ample shutdown of higher cognitive function for the animal to permit such gross usage as childbearing entails.)
1836106;1531931216;ben_vulpes;there's a megatonne of dross and snake oil to sift through, but another flake ive found is that the same mechanisms that one uses to process and put behind scary/traumatic/painful events can become the dominant mode of behavior if the individual's subjected to pain/abuse/shit-ass situations for long enough
1836107;1531931235;mircea_popescu;this seems correct.
1836108;1531931283;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's observations in pet terrarium confirms
1836109;1531931325;mircea_popescu;this isn't even gendered in any sense. thousand mile stare etc.
1836110;1531931329;asciilifeform;aha
1836111;1531931331;ben_vulpes;aha, shellshock
1836112;1531931356;ben_vulpes;empirically, there are classes of chemicals that a) shut down the aforementioned dmn entirely for a short period and b) for reasons unexplained this dialing-down of the dmn can endure beyond the presence of these chemicals in the system (although perhaps not other chemicals that are produced in response, nobody knows anything beyond this point)
1836113;1531931374;mircea_popescu;meh.
1836114;1531931379;*;mircea_popescu doesn't believe in pill therapy.
1836115;1531931384;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: in olden times 'electroshock' 'worked' same way
1836116;1531931409;mircea_popescu;it is perhaps arguable that major function of beating is in this vein.
1836117;1531931417;ben_vulpes;the hot items are ketamine and psilocybin.
1836118;1531931425;mircea_popescu;releases endorphins and other shutupins.
1836119;1531931435;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: last i knew, ketamine was usg.dod state of art
1836120;1531931446;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i can see how beatings could kick the brain into a new regime
1836121;1531931453;asciilifeform;was being considered as component in field med kit
1836122;1531931456;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes if you'rte going to use veterinarian's anesthetic, might as well go the whole way and fuck veals, no ?
1836123;1531931477;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: har har har
1836124;1531931486;mircea_popescu;people got speech. supposedly it does something./
1836125;1531931492;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they used something like 1/10 of the anaesthetic dose ( thing is fiendishly difficult, incidentally, to dose )
1836126;1531931502;ben_vulpes;.5g/kg
1836127;1531931516;mircea_popescu;just sayin', why are you lot laughing at me for baseball-batting my terminals and then go about attempting the ~same ?
1836128;1531931532;ben_vulpes;.05 perhaps, notes are across the room. delivered over an hour. asciilifeform doses are well calibrated at this point.
1836129;1531931536;Mocky;BingoBoingo, yeah I've been thinking. Spent better half of last year travelling southern usa and mostly finding places I would *not* want to live until landing in Austin, which I quite liked. But then later snapped back to east coast. I've developed a pretty good sense of my (pretty minimal) quality of life needs recently.
1836130;1531931560;mircea_popescu;Mocky funny, my favourite place in texas (and usa, mostly) was san antonio
1836131;1531931567;mircea_popescu;everyone from texas prefers austin. it's a wonder to behold.
1836132;1531931581;Mocky;the hiking there is mind blowing
1836133;1531931585;asciilifeform;iirc trinque lives ( or at one time lived? ) there
1836134;1531931596;mircea_popescu;hahaha. until cr, you've not seen hiking.
1836135;1531931600;Mocky;more trails within city limits than you could get in some states
1836136;1531931633;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: incidentally cr seems ~ideal for forest antennae placements.
1836137;1531931634;*;ben_vulpes likely doomed to relocate to austin within the year
1836138;1531931635;Mocky;i have a nephew who tried to get me to cr last summer and I agreed, but then he backed out. he was raving about the place
1836139;1531931654;mircea_popescu;as close to perfect as i've to date found.
1836140;1531931749;ben_vulpes;anyways early results are coffee made for instead of by me, exercise taken under own steam, complete cessation of wandering into room and forgetting original cause ("i've tried to brush my teeth six times today"), and general lifting of tenor around the domus. much habit-building to do now.
1836141;1531931846;mircea_popescu;does she work anything ?
1836142;1531931935;ben_vulpes;not atm, but mebbe down the road. would have to pay pretty damn well to offset costs of childcare and producing food for the family at home is the first reason to not.
1836143;1531931944;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835852 << this seems rather a poisoned advantage, much in the vein of the "order in clown's mouth" easement. yes, i suppose not getting out of your car is in some senses "easier", but not something i'd use.
1836144;1531931944;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 12:59 phf: for example in naggum's "history of time" he talks about having a package tz with symbols for all the timezones, and if you access say tz:est or whatever, the timezone is transparently loaded. can only be done in allegro
1836145;1531931957;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes consider it'd alleviate the need for ketamine.
1836146;1531931976;mircea_popescu;it's not generally possible for intelligent human to stay healthy, let alone happy, without some sort of activity in the mix.
1836147;1531931985;ben_vulpes;i entirely agree.
1836148;1531931996;ben_vulpes;childrearing can be a mindnumbing activity.
1836149;1531932017;mircea_popescu;try to not reconstruct the insanity that drove the (legitimate) previous wave "feminism", you know ? it's 2018 after all, no further need of kathleen turner going slowly insane in the house of rose.
1836150;1531932022;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Anyways you benefit from not being tied to the datacenter. You have more geographic options than explored here, you can even look outside the big city to Atlantida and Piriapolis http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/06/01/the-real-estate-situation-in-montevideo-part-one/
1836151;1531932038;ben_vulpes;she gardens, we're building a fence and working on the house.
1836152;1531932063;mircea_popescu;she'd be better off pole dancing at the local strip club, than gardening.
1836153;1531932083;mircea_popescu;sellign real estate, baking home cookies for faire sale, anything that's a real activity, as opposed to gardening. kids, plants, whatever.
1836154;1531932086;ben_vulpes;human interaction outside of house is teh next item hue
1836155;1531932097;mircea_popescu;right.
1836156;1531932207;ben_vulpes;anyways thanks for the input
1836157;1531932544;mircea_popescu;"real activity". what i mean is that activities can be classified in resistence-of-medium types, when one interacts with objects, and catcalls types, where one interacts with people. just like stock trader would immensely benefit from taking time to do some whittling, just so alma de casa would immensely benefit from taking some time to do paid escort work.
1836158;1531932557;mircea_popescu;though generally it seems waitressing is the cheap quick and accessible substitute.
1836159;1531933064;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835866 << his thinking of standard interpretations shifted significantly past year or so, under ada influence.
1836160;1531933064;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 13:07 phf: asciilifeform: please show me where "permits no such horrors"
1836161;1531933100;asciilifeform;meeting something reasonably close to a sane standard is educative, whatcanisay.
1836162;1531933193;mircea_popescu;before tmsr-ghost-of-gost-cl, a full enumeration of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835880 is prolly in order.
1836163;1531933193;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 13:41 phf: asciilifeform: oh yeah, i get it, the approach requires a GOST cpu with a GOST bus etc. etc. right now the situation is mildly depressing (though perhaps that's not the right word), even Ada standard turned out to be dodgy (very precisely specifies some shitty solutions)
1836164;1531933204;mircea_popescu;because i fear he's right.
1836165;1531933226;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've little doubt that he's right; hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835943
1836166;1531933226;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 14:16 asciilifeform: ave1: that'll be the gold medalist, as it will run on ice40 , i.e. 'tmsr cpu'.
1836167;1531933251;mircea_popescu;(i meant especially re the "Ada standard turned out to be dodgy (very precisely specifies some shitty solutions)" art.
1836168;1531933291;asciilifeform;to date i've rejected all items requiring secondarystackism; that's currently it.
1836169;1531933304;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835886 << yet.
1836170;1531933304;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 13:45 phf: as far as ada is concerned, the tmsr ada is a subset of standard, that only exists in your head, and can be somewhat inferred from ffa. that's no standard
1836171;1531933341;mircea_popescu;the counterpoint to all these issues being that ~not everything can be standardized~.
1836172;1531933355;mircea_popescu;which is why there's no standard worm.
1836173;1531933380;asciilifeform;for thread completeness i must add that there are items in the standard (i.e. 'tasks') that i do not use in ffa, but intend to make use of in future ( i.e. trbi ) , and may be let live.
1836174;1531933462;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835889 << yes, actually. not for the direct so much, but because we'll understand jack shit unless we talk about things.
1836175;1531933462;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 13:46 phf: or is tmsr ada whatever ave1 put into his musl build, which is, worse, a political situation. diana_coman can argue for her ffi stuff to be included, should i be arguing for my get/put stuff to be included?
1836176;1531933523;asciilifeform;i/o in particular is intimately machine-specific and cannot be 'language-standardized' unless you're perma-marrying unix or the like.
1836177;1531933547;mircea_popescu;can be standardized, "broken machines to receive software crutches that meet the standard".
1836178;1531933576;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: consider for instance commandline args, the concept is meaningless on embedded chip with no commandline/shell
1836179;1531933596;mircea_popescu;so target embedded doesn't pull in that portion.
1836180;1531933597;asciilifeform;ditto filesystemism, is meaningless on apparatus with no disk
1836181;1531933602;mircea_popescu;same.
1836182;1531933614;asciilifeform;right, these belong as annexes .
1836183;1531933618;mircea_popescu;exactly.
1836184;1531933636;asciilifeform;( separation of language-standard and annexes is a basic component of sanity )
1836185;1531933661;mircea_popescu;can teach same baby any language, it'll ~work ~same.
1836186;1531933703;asciilifeform;funnily enuff ( esp in light of mircea_popescu's excursions into sapirwhorfism ) this may not be true
1836187;1531933723;mircea_popescu;well, evidently you won't get a software disk out of a diskless system.
1836188;1531933733;mircea_popescu;just because "my language is standard"
1836189;1531933770;mircea_popescu;but no, language-as-coprocessor does not imply any genetic linkage.
1836190;1531933825;asciilifeform;point was that certain language features make for effectively smarter ( or dumber ) thinker.
1836191;1531933831;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835900 << this is true, but open and perhaps resolvable problem.
1836192;1531933831;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 13:53 phf: interfaces.c is not a libc concern, it's an ffi. the situation is that C can't be linked to an Ada, even if the C part has _no libc_ in it
1836193;1531933856;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and present disk or ram or w/e make for faster eventual program. but anyways.
1836194;1531933968;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was speaking of basic semantics, rather than i/o and storage ( consider , good chunk of the reason ada wins is that it not merely enforces constraints, but forces operator to think and plan, rather than http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 -shit into his pants )
1836195;1531933968;a111;Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111'
1836196;1531934182;asciilifeform;e.g. it is not permitted to index array by a variable that cannot be shown to be ranged within the known ( and it must be known ) size of the array; if you want compiler to permit you the use of a pointer, gotta demonstrate that it cannot outlive its scope; and so forth ( iirc plentifully summarized in l0gz )
1836197;1531934524;asciilifeform;in re: constrained ada subsets, the traditional standard actually contains annexes that specify 'profiles', e.g. https://archive.fo/4xUvl , that consist of sets of prohibitions . but currently very primitive, afaik none contain substantial ~substitutions~ for mainline functionality.
1836198;1531934591;asciilifeform;( there was not an existing 'profile' corresponding to the degree of 'fascism' asciilifeform wanted , hence the bulk of http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch10_karatsuba/tree/ffa/libffa/restrict.adc item )
1836199;1531935412;Mocky;BingoBoingo, I've just read through your real estate posts, what was your best source of info re: rentals, was it agencies?
1836200;1531935493;mircea_popescu;yeah ; anyway, seems promising enough line.
1836201;1531935596;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835924 << this sounds exactly right.
1836202;1531935596;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 14:06 phf: i took a different approach, i wrote _to ada standard_ with the idea that each interface can be substituted with a custom system specific replacement. for example my character_io is a new_line aware replacement of the original, that relies on ada.sequential_io. now if i wanted to retarget to small machine, i'd write a custom sequential_io that uses machine specific calls for byte read/write
1836203;1531935632;mircea_popescu;lol i see the log approves.
1836204;1531935739;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835931 << could something like http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#selection-141.0-141.150 rescue one from the problems of "variable length string" ?
1836205;1531935739;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 14:09 asciilifeform: phf: observe however that it is impossible to make use of your approach re cmdline args. the standard unambiguously mandates variably-lenghted strings ( i.e. dualstackism ) for that.
1836206;1531935887;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ada gives you ~this~ type of string 'for free' ( all ada strings contain their length )
1836207;1531935895;mircea_popescu;right.
1836208;1531935920;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the dualstack thing comes into play when you start to demand that a function ~return~ a string of length not known in advance.
1836209;1531935920;mircea_popescu;so if the init were made so as to pass cmd line args as THAT, ie, proiper string, ie 3 part string, ie, x + y + z bytes, then...
1836210;1531935931;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's exactly what i did.
1836211;1531935961;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch10_karatsuba/tree/ffa/ffacalc/cmdline.ads + http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch10_karatsuba/tree/ffa/ffacalc/cmdline.adb for the curious )
1836212;1531935979;mircea_popescu;and so what's the problem ?
1836213;1531935982;asciilifeform;sanity-constrained wrapper around the linux c-ism.
1836214;1531936020;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: problem , if one want to call it one, is that the standard explicitly gives a knob for getting cmdline params, and that knob demands indeterminately-long strings (i.e. built on dualstackism) to work.
1836215;1531936045;mircea_popescu;but the model here discussed DOES permit very long strings.
1836216;1531936096;asciilifeform;in order to ~return~ such a string, a place other than the stack is required to store it. ( to grasp this, gotta visualize stack frame. )
1836217;1531936109;asciilifeform;returning strings of fixed apriori lenght, on other hand, does not.
1836218;1531936126;mircea_popescu;for the logs : 1st byte is, byte length of 2nd segment. 2nd segment is, byte length of 3rd segment. 3rd segment is payload. so "hola" is 14hola and 0xFF FF FF encodes for a 2.00352993e+19728 byte long string.
1836219;1531936150;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why place other than stack ?
1836220;1531936174;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: because stack frame is of fixed size in advance .
1836221;1531936204;asciilifeform;draw this on paper, it will make sense.
1836222;1531936217;mircea_popescu;no, i understand that part. what i don't understand is why is it a problem.
1836223;1531936226;mircea_popescu;if program includes this sort of thing, define stack as max mem.
1836224;1531936239;asciilifeform;it only becomes a problem if one insists on returning items of unknown apriori size.
1836225;1531936271;mircea_popescu;no, because machine memory is alwayus the limit. all compiler has to do is simply say the (correct) "sorry, i can;t help you here", and allocate all available memory for stack.
1836226;1531936288;mircea_popescu;if you don't like that behaviour, don't use that thing which necessitates it.
1836227;1531936309;asciilifeform;https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugx-docs/html/gnat_ugx/gnat_ugx/the_stacks.html#the-secondary-stack << the horse's mouth, re details.
1836228;1531936327;mircea_popescu;yes, but the problem is that they're trying to help idiots in spite of themselves. which...
1836229;1531936331;Mocky;but stack frames are allocated *before* so can' be arbitrary size
1836230;1531936342;Mocky;can't
1836231;1531936353;mircea_popescu;Mocky before what ? before the machine exists ?
1836232;1531936381;asciilifeform;Mocky: it is of course possible to do what mircea_popescu describes, the gnat folx did it by making use of heap. however i banned the heap. because i wish to be able to reason apriori re memory usage.
1836233;1531936394;mircea_popescu;i dunno that this is equal to using a heap
1836234;1531936421;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's what a heap ~is~, a place which lets you pretend to be able to store sequences of objects of unknown-apriori lengths.
1836235;1531936435;asciilifeform;in actual practice turns out , pretty terrible thing.
1836236;1531936447;asciilifeform;trb's footprint problems are 100% on account of heapism.
1836237;1531936450;mircea_popescu;ok, let me rephrase : if program includes "long strings" then compiler turns stack into heap.
1836238;1531936491;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this more or less exactly describes gnat's implementation of 'secondary stack' (somewhat misnomer)
1836239;1531936505;mircea_popescu;hm
1836240;1531936508;asciilifeform;i banned it in my proggy. because i don't like what it leads to.
1836241;1531936522;mircea_popescu;well yeah but then you must not permit long strings.
1836242;1531936544;asciilifeform;strings of any length you want ~defined apriori~ work under my constraint.
1836243;1531936566;asciilifeform;( so long as the thing gets enuff stack segment on warmup , if it does not, bombs immediately )
1836244;1531936593;mircea_popescu;i meant "long" in the cmdline sense.
1836245;1531936601;asciilifeform;correct.
1836246;1531936655;asciilifeform;observe http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc#L97 mechanism, i fix a max length of param apriori, and routine will explicitly and pompously end the world if luser insists on trying to stuff it further.
1836247;1531936683;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc#L55 << copies the unix turd into the fixed space, if fits, if not, above.
1836248;1531936702;mircea_popescu;i suspect a (large) part of the problem is the temptation to stuff ad-hoc scripting langs in the cmd line ;
1836249;1531936716;mircea_popescu;i've been thinking a lot about this since discussions re how mining bot should be configured in eulora.
1836250;1531936720;asciilifeform;btw no known unix permits an 'infinite' cmdline.
1836251;1531936738;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it';s a recurring problem though, recall the "url length hacks" endemic throughout web age ?
1836252;1531936744;asciilifeform;aha
1836253;1531936751;asciilifeform;folx gotta know measure.
1836254;1531936775;asciilifeform;url has no biznis weighing a megabyte.
1836255;1531936777;mircea_popescu;in fact, a lot of the utility of pipe (and with it, a lot of the utility of unix altogether) comes from it being, fundamentally, a loosely specified scripting lang.
1836256;1531936803;asciilifeform;aha, there is no limit to pipe 'length', it specifies a flow, rather than a datum.
1836257;1531936832;mircea_popescu;but i suspect it's in the vein of "a lot of the utility of sledgehammer comes from there being all these abandoned warehouses to loot" "well... how about you organised things better, then no sledgehammers"
1836258;1531937094;mircea_popescu;diana_coman neither of those are it, i guess ima embark on a re-read expedition, it's discussed somewhere 2015ish pretty sure
1836259;1531937167;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, hm, discussed as in #eulora or #trilema?
1836260;1531937179;mircea_popescu;i thought on blog tbh.
1836261;1531937189;mircea_popescu;it all gets fuzzy after a while ;/
1836262;1531937293;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: conceivably not all works call for the ffa degree of fascism, where asciilifeform insists on being able to say exactly how many bytes are required after a O(1) look at the inputs, and to say exactly in what order they will be accessed etc
1836263;1531937339;mircea_popescu;this rapidly escalates into a "what does it mean to program".
1836264;1531937373;asciilifeform;no different from 'what does it mean to work on lathe' . if aluminum -- means one thing, if machining pyrophorics (e.g. plutonium) -- very other.
1836265;1531937424;mircea_popescu;this is true
1836266;1531937427;mircea_popescu;anyway, i shall bbl!
1836267;1531937437;asciilifeform;give my regards to the hermit crabs.
1836268;1531939382;BingoBoingo;<Mocky> BingoBoingo, I've just read through your real estate posts, what was your best source of info re: rentals, was it agencies? << The best big picture survey is on "Mercado Libre" From there you ask and poke
1836269;1531939474;BingoBoingo;Mocky: https://www.mercadolibre.com.uy/inmuebles/ is where you start. If you are looking to buy, start discussions at half their ask...
1836270;1531939525;Mocky;ok, thanks
1836271;1531940250;BingoBoingo;Prado's cool but far from everything, otherwise to get low pichi (bum) density the area from Parque Rodo and playa Ramirez all the way through Carrasco (maybe skip Malvin) is a good place to start.
1836272;1531940445;BingoBoingo;There's still expat focused material tryping to pump up property prices in La Blanqueda, Malvin Norte and other shitholes that are an unpleasant walk from the water.
1836273;1531940688;BingoBoingo;Tres Cruces is a fun place to go to chat cute girls but... it the only barrio with traffic issues, far from the water, and the place I most frequently run into dyed hair activist sorts (the national bus terminal seems to be irresistable bait for the fifth column)
1836274;1531940937;BingoBoingo;The way healthcare works here however is vastly improved over the US
1836275;1531941066;Mocky;really? i guess I shouldn't be surprised
1836276;1531941231;BingoBoingo;The way it works here is three tiers: public (free and shitty), Mutualistas (Pick one of several good options for low waits, runs 4300 pesos a month), Private (reimplementation of US tardation)
1836277;1531941339;BingoBoingo;And this is Latin America so any sort of insurance can always be supplemented with cash and carry
1836278;1531941374;BingoBoingo;Plenty of Venezolanas working on getting their professional licenses here trained in the intense soviet tradition
1836279;1531941557;BingoBoingo;Carrasco International Airport is also far less fucked up than the options in Buenos Aires
1836280;1531941938;BingoBoingo;Grocery shopping here is also a trip, Peanut butter runs about 5 USD for a tiny jar, but... Entrecot, God's own cut of beef runs about 10 USD a kilo
1836281;1531942039;BingoBoingo;Half a kilo of dulce de leche, the good stuff runs less than 3 USD for a half kilo
1836282;1531943275;ben_vulpes;how much is lettuce?
1836283;1531943403;BingoBoingo;Cheap, but varies a lot
1836284;1531943463;*;asciilifeform pictures BingoBoingo eating dulce de leche in the style asciilifeform's father ate it in su army -- puncture with bayonet and drink, drink, in 'trumpeter's pose' , all 500g at a time
1836285;1531943499;BingoBoingo;lol, not fluid enough to drink. That would likely take days
1836286;1531943518;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: trick is to warm it up 1st.
1836287;1531943532;BingoBoingo;AH
1836288;1531943584;BingoBoingo;I've been splitting bread rolls with a utility knife and making dulce de leche, cream cheese, and jelly sandwiches
1836289;1531944545;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in human lulz, http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-7-18#402166
1836290;1531945570;ben_vulpes;http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-7-18#402166
1836291;1531945570;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-07-18 19:48 asciilifeform: lobbes, shinohai : it seems unfortunate that text forum does not give equivalent of the duel . the ancients invented dueling precisely for your case, you're ideal candidates.
1836292;1531946562;asciilifeform;ty ben_vulpes
1836293;1531946936;ben_vulpes;mhm!
1836294;1531948639;Mocky;BingoBoingo, what are pharmacies like there, do you know? like mexico: basically walk in and ask for what you need, or more sticklers for note from doc?
1836295;1531948659;mircea_popescu;everywhere non-pantsuit is sane.
1836296;1531948673;mircea_popescu;kinda why we advise the zeks to fucking leave.
1836297;1531948706;Mocky;indeed
1836298;1531948777;*;asciilifeform went into several pharmacies in BingoBoingostan, saw ~100% herbal/snakeoil crapolas. possibly they keep the real pharma behind counter.
1836299;1531948799;mircea_popescu;i just bought 1% topical novocaine for the asking.
1836300;1531948815;asciilifeform;notbad
1836301;1531949168;Mocky;last year doc referred me to specialist for one specific issue. specialist ordered 2 dozen labs, bone density scan, ultrasound, said come back in 2 weeks. came back, said looks all good but want another test. went to lab, blood draw chick whips out 7 vials for blood collection. I said, let me see what labs were ordered, was 4 dozen more!
1836302;1531949199;Mocky;i left and never went back. i should have know by how nice the place was. too nice.
1836303;1531949233;mircea_popescu;the cult of safety is the enemy of safety. like all other inca products.
1836304;1531949369;ben_vulpes;pathological fear of firearms doth not translate to safe firearm use
1836305;1531949384;ben_vulpes;rip drive by shooting range
1836306;1531949398;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: sufficiently cowardly idjit can shoot himself with brick.
1836307;1531949431;mircea_popescu;if this were true, korea'd have won some war at some point in its history.
1836308;1531949498;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik korea if ever existed as nation, it was in 1300s. (today there's the usg colony and the open air injun reservation)
1836309;1531949524;mircea_popescu;well ok, but shooting only was discovered after that.
1836310;1531949552;asciilifeform;funnily enuff i associate korea with art of medieval gunnery -- motherland of the infamous 'leather cannon', as deadly to artillerist as to enemy
1836311;1531949580;asciilifeform;( was not in reality wholly of leather, but wood reinforced with same )
1836312;1531949597;mircea_popescu;problem with wood is that it's too friable. they basically made metal from parts.
1836313;1531949613;asciilifeform;aha, same trick as ferrocement
1836314;1531949620;asciilifeform;'metamaterial'
1836315;1531949624;mircea_popescu;quite.
1836316;1531949691;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1836280 << the reason, btw, is that us "peanut" butter is ~90% margerine.
1836317;1531949691;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 19:25 BingoBoingo: Grocery shopping here is also a trip, Peanut butter runs about 5 USD for a tiny jar, but... Entrecot, God's own cut of beef runs about 10 USD a kilo
1836318;1531949693;asciilifeform;periodically, uppity folx who need to bake something that shoots, in a hurry (e.g. filipino rebels ) rediscover the korean trick.
1836319;1531949699;mircea_popescu;what they charge is what genuine article costs.
1836320;1531949706;asciilifeform;i saw in museum an example, old iron pipe rightly wrapped in leather.
1836321;1531949771;asciilifeform;( naturally the leather eventually gives , and frags go in the shooter's face. but until then , you get a coupla shots, can be enuff )
1836322;1531951486;BingoBoingo;* asciilifeform went into several pharmacies in BingoBoingostan, saw ~100% herbal/snakeoil crapolas. possibly they keep the real pharma behind counter. << They carry real stuff, but you have to ask. Barrier is "know the name of what you want"
1836323;1531953035;Mocky;man, these flights are a hoot. looks like getting below $1900 requires 2 to 3 long layovers. cheapest one i see $1153 9 hours in JFK, 16hrs Bogota
1836324;1531953051;Mocky;i need to find one with 23hrs in cancun and 23 hours in jamaica, lol
1836325;1531953097;mircea_popescu;kinda how i fly. used to have old world all mapped out, "and here';s the schnitzel place we stop for in frankfurt, and here's the,..."
1836326;1531954537;BingoBoingo;Mocky: Just avoid the American Airlines flight direct from Miami, its frequently delayed or cancelled
1836327;1531954693;Mocky;oh that sux, i'd totally do a layover in miami
1836328;1531957459;BingoBoingo;You can take Copa and do a layover in Panama City
1836329;1531957970;Mocky;copa's 2700 or more for any time in august, from what I can see
1836330;1531958225;mircea_popescu;o.O
1836331;1531958255;mircea_popescu;that's pretty insane.
1836332;1531958499;asciilifeform;lol Mocky where are you flying from..? alaska ?!
1836333;1531958595;*;asciilifeform got round trip from dc and 5d hotel for <1900 in apr
1836334;1531958626;asciilifeform;copa, through panama as it always goes
1836335;1531958662;mircea_popescu;possibly they're running an "oh, vacation" scam ?
1836336;1531958682;asciilifeform;( and asciilifeform's only complaint was the plane that stood on runway for 20 extra minutes because some orc derp couldn't fit his ~box of cakes~ into overhead bin )
1836337;1531958737;asciilifeform;admittedly the <1900 gets 'cattle car class'.
1836338;1531958869;asciilifeform;( and nominal wait in panama was only 1h )
1836339;1531958894;Mocky;asciilifeform, raleigh durham international
1836340;1531958902;asciilifeform;hm
1836341;1531958930;asciilifeform;then nfi. plane ticket is one of those things that steadily climbs in cost as the printing press churns.
1836342;1531959054;Mocky;BingoBoingo, is Prado where you are?
1836343;1531959461;asciilifeform;Mocky: he's in montevideo
1836344;1531959486;Mocky;talking neighborhoods
1836345;1531961902;BingoBoingo;Mocky: I am in Pocitos near the datacenter.
1836346;1531962034;BingoBoingo;Prado's further to the west
1836347;1531962070;Mocky;ok, yeah I see it
1836348;1531962231;BingoBoingo;Anyways, the locals rarely travel within the city
1836349;1531964478;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/ballot-measure-to-split-california-blocked-by-california-court/ << Qntra - Ballot Measure To Split California Blocked By California Court
1836350;1531996559;phf;this is summer u.s. vacation prices, personally i'm not traveling until end of august, when $1900 flights to anywhere suddenly(!!1) drop to $900
1836351;1531996805;phf;new york flights are the baseline to go by, they tend to be the cheapest, and have direct flights by foreign airlines to places i usually go to, so for example istanbul is $1,2k right now, drops to $900 in august, in early september it's the regular price of $700 or so
1836352;1531996856;phf;same deal with, e.g. moscow. $600-500 roundtrips all year spike to $1,5k in summer
1836353;1531997764;Mocky;phf, good info, thanks. looks like cheapest flight in august is bouncing around $1250 to $1350, haven't seen the $1150 sighting again. If I push it out past labor day looks like $950
1836354;1532007790;asciilifeform;!Q later tell trinque possible bug in wot display ( https://archive.is/3Z7ZW , scroll to bottom )
1836355;1532007790;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1836356;1532011548;asciilifeform;!!up PeterL
1836357;1532011549;deedbot;PeterL voiced for 30 minutes.
1836358;1532011713;asciilifeform;PeterL: ...?
1836359;1532012349;PeterL;^ about WOT display: it wouldn't be a bug if shinohai went through and re-rated everybody in his wot with no comment, look at the time stamps
1836360;1532012366;asciilifeform;lessee what he says.
1836361;1532012383;asciilifeform;( i am at a loss re why anybody would do this, but whoknows )
1836362;1532012486;PeterL;could be something related to "-2	lobbes	2018-06-01 01:06:43	old woman. See also: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Alobbes+rot+in+heathendom" ?
1836363;1532012538;asciilifeform;PeterL: if he actually issued the uncommented ratings , then psychiatric q for shinohai . if not -- bugological q for trinque . is all i got.
1836364;1532012620;asciilifeform;fwiw i never grasped why deedbot permits !!rate out of chan. but possibly trinque & mircea_popescu explained this at some point, i simply could not find in l0gz.
1836365;1532012715;PeterL;on that page Trinque has a rating with no comment, so clearly it is acceptable to leave the comment out
1836366;1532012722;asciilifeform;right
1836367;1532012774;PeterL;but you are right, if ratings were required to be in chan then anybody could rebuild the deedbot WoT from the channel logs. or at least have the verifications in chan.
1836368;1532012823;asciilifeform;it is already too late for 'everybody can rebuild from logs', naturally. but if this had been the design, could answer 'does have bug or not' mechanically.
1836369;1532012871;asciilifeform;!Q later tell shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836359 << ?? plox to comment.
1836370;1532012871;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 14:59 PeterL: ^ about WOT display: it wouldn't be a bug if shinohai went through and re-rated everybody in his wot with no comment, look at the time stamps
1836371;1532012871;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1836372;1532013067;PeterL;while I have the mic: I did end up fixing the problem http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830121 , see http://petermlambert.blogspot.com/2018/07/vdiffshadefineswapvpatch.html
1836373;1532013067;a111;Logged on 2018-06-27 15:16 PeterL: hi, I was just trying to build the vtools, and I ran into this problem: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AuLgQ/?raw=true
1836374;1532013073;mircea_popescu;Mocky better go out of crazy season anyway, i know of no place that benefits from heavy tourist load.
1836375;1532013096;mircea_popescu;some people are very much into the 16yos they tow about ; but in general speaking fuckers should just be shot.
1836376;1532013107;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc tourist season in BingoBoingostan is dec-feb
1836377;1532013172;PeterL;so travel from US to BBstan is advised sep-nov or mar-may
1836378;1532013239;asciilifeform;PeterL: 2nd week of april -- beach was 27C and... entirely empty. go figure.
1836379;1532013258;mircea_popescu;how it goes.
1836380;1532013503;Mocky;mircea_popescu: ok
1836381;1532013702;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836361 << i dunno that a comment's that important. basically it's the "string for allcomers" portion of wot mechanics.
1836382;1532013702;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 14:59 asciilifeform: ( i am at a loss re why anybody would do this, but whoknows )
1836383;1532013732;asciilifeform;i have no position on this in either direction. q was re 'bug or not' strictly.
1836384;1532013744;mircea_popescu;certainly no bug.
1836385;1532013785;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: specifically, if he issued '!!rate $user' without comment, no bug, if it somehow vanished on own power -- bug
1836386;1532013795;mircea_popescu;we've just been supplying the string because tradition, or dunno. i suppose much like venetian merchants dressed the house pets. dun mean naked woman about the house is a bug (even though the 80s retard, before i/we came about and fucked their "trtaditions" right in the ass, would have suspected such_
1836387;1532013813;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ah ah. if vanished on own power let him complain.
1836388;1532013819;asciilifeform;aha. is all.
1836389;1532013906;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836364 << i'm not even sure by now. honestly i don't seem to ever want to use it, myself, but i also see no problem in it per se. ratings are personal after all, and not all persons of the republic are necessarily just as public.
1836390;1532013906;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 15:03 asciilifeform: fwiw i never grasped why deedbot permits !!rate out of chan. but possibly trinque & mircea_popescu explained this at some point, i simply could not find in l0gz.
1836391;1532013911;mod6;After looking at PeterL's blogpost, was curious if there had been any consideration into if a manifest file should grow up or down (i.e. newest change first, or newest change last in the file).  This is purely a cosmetic thing, I suppose it would be up to the author too.  Probably why trinque didn't touch on this in the post either http://trinque.org/2018/06/02/v-manifest-specification/
1836392;1532013955;mircea_popescu;mod6 i always assumed down.
1836393;1532013966;mircea_popescu;ie, the way >> adds.
1836394;1532013969;*;asciilifeform currently writing a manifest, goes 'down'
1836395;1532013982;mircea_popescu;seems to me to be a (tacit) posix standard.
1836396;1532013988;mod6;Ah, alright.  Just thought I'd bring it up as most "CHANGELOG"s that you see out there grow upwards.
1836397;1532013996;mircea_popescu;which ?!
1836398;1532014021;mod6;Hah, I dunno, maybe I'm making that up.
1836399;1532014033;mircea_popescu;lol if you run across any say
1836400;1532014066;mod6;ok, will do.  if i even do, they're probably from projects that are not TMSR~ anyway.  so who cares.
1836401;1532014077;mod6;thanks for the 0.00000002
1836402;1532014133;mircea_popescu;of course, i can't load blogspot "blogs" now that http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-remove-usgalphabet-usually-called-google-by-the-jews-pantsuit-from-your-web-experience/#selection-287.67-291.1
1836403;1532014150;mircea_popescu;briefly thought about doing something about it... but then, i think i'd rather just wait for PeterL to move or w/e.
1836404;1532014218;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/Rjfvb << seems to work
1836405;1532014254;mircea_popescu;aite.
1836406;1532014273;asciilifeform;!Q later tell PeterL get the hell off heathen kolhoz 'blogspot' already
1836407;1532014274;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1836408;1532014284;mircea_popescu;"This site uses cookies from Google to deliver its services and to analyze traffic. Your IP address and user-agent are shared with Google along with performance and security metrics to ensure quality of service, generate usage statistics, and to detect and address abuse."
1836409;1532014287;mircea_popescu;cute.
1836410;1532014339;mircea_popescu;nice going on digging up the busybox header, huh.
1836411;1532014646;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836377 << I have not yet experienced August through November, but I see no reason to rule out December through February. That was best weather.
1836412;1532014646;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 15:12 PeterL: so travel from US to BBstan is advised sep-nov or mar-may
1836413;1532017137;BingoBoingo;Just avoid Puntu del Este if you aren't pete_dushenski
1836414;1532017211;Mocky;gringo money pit?
1836415;1532018612;BingoBoingo;Latino money pit
1836416;1532018647;BingoBoingo;Year round just about everything there costs 50% more
1836417;1532018683;BingoBoingo;population is ~30,000 most of the year and 300,000 December through February
1836418;1532018698;BingoBoingo;Also one of their beaches is very rich in jellyfish
1836419;1532018733;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: delaware also infested with same, dun stop anybody from packing beach like rush hour train
1836420;1532018772;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: or are your jellyfish australian-style 'kill in 5min' variety
1836421;1532018797;asciilifeform;( the ones here, moar like bee sting than anyffing )
1836422;1532019081;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836413 << lulzy fella, e.g. most recently 'Marketing/branding is something that, unfortunately, the folks in ye olde #trilema utterly fail to comprehend, if quite intentionally so, but the result is the same : they collectively couldn’t market, brand, or sell their way out of a paper bag and childishly mock any attempts to improve on that score. Such is the bed they’ve made for themselves.' ( ht
1836423;1532019081;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 16:18 BingoBoingo: Just avoid Puntu del Este if you aren't pete_dushenski
1836424;1532019081;asciilifeform;tps://archive.is/0iPzV ) didjaknow.
1836425;1532019216;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: as far as I can tell the bee sting variety, but I have seen a couple people with sizeable welts returning to the hostel from there after day trips
1836426;1532019289;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: here in mosquito hell, all i gotta do is to walk three metres out of front door to rubbish pin, and 5-6 welts
1836427;1532019336;BingoBoingo;I am unsure if I have been mosquito bit here. I don't think they like the bus fumes
1836428;1532019384;BingoBoingo;But up in the North around Artigas department they advertise Dengue
1836429;1532019407;BingoBoingo;And occasionally yellow fever crosses the border in the North as well
1836430;1532019606;asciilifeform;!Q later tell esthlos your www is down ?
1836431;1532019606;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1836432;1532023443;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yeah but those are mostly hoping to social mobilitize. at least going to inca capital for it makes some sens.e
1836433;1532023533;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836422 << he has exactly zero room to pretend to any kind of commercial knowledge, seeing how http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-03#1651459 ; if he was worth two shits in the supposed field of his choice, we'd have known this as a matter of fact in 2017.
1836434;1532023533;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 16:51 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836413 << lulzy fella, e.g. most recently 'Marketing/branding is something that, unfortunately, the folks in ye olde #trilema utterly fail to comprehend, if quite intentionally so, but the result is the same : they collectively couldn’t market, brand, or sell their way out of a paper bag and childishly mock any attempts to improve on that score. Such is the bed they’ve made for themselves.' ( ht
1836435;1532023533;a111;Logged on 2017-05-03 20:04 mircea_popescu: dude, just call. nevermind the "questions" and rest of the crap. spend 1/10 of the time you frittered away already "on" this to call, write up your report, "i, pete d, aspiring to one day lordship, spent 8 hours today cold calling. i managed a total of 76 calls, which would get me fired from the average call center but hey, i'm new. these 76 calls went to so and so, here's the script, here's why i ammended it and when, here's
1836436;1532023556;mircea_popescu;yes, teh republic is un poco carente in the commercial lines ; nevertheless the epsilon here far exceeds the zero there.
1836437;1532023635;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc d00d was loaded -- but in the 'inherit 10mil to make 1mil' sense strictly
1836438;1532023887;asciilifeform;i dun even recall him having a 'field of choice', iirc he lives by renting out some inherited hovels
1836439;1532025057;mircea_popescu;and also the "oh but mp, that's not the EXACT specific narrowly defined line" isn't permissible either. a "doctor" who can't equalize a molar transform is no fuckinfg doctor, i don't care how he thinks chemistry "is not properly part of doctorhood"
1836440;1532025107;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no but that's the fashionable thing, ever since "our brave boys in uniform" came back, erryone's permitted to go about pretending as if they have some kind of business.
1836441;1532025178;asciilifeform;i suspect moar http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-09#1092789 than 'doctor'
1836442;1532025178;a111;Logged on 2015-04-09 02:42 trinque: http://gawker.com/5861135/cement-and-glue-butt-injection-doctor-has-unbelievable-curves << sorry for gawker, pic worth it
1836443;1532025185;mircea_popescu;basically http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-03#1651446 ; and by the perennial butthurt whenever that shoe drops, it's evident enough nobody in these morons' lives EVER fucking sat them down and told them plainly what a failure fucking is and how they can become one.
1836444;1532025185;a111;Logged on 2017-05-03 19:55 mircea_popescu: or is it going to be the case that you'll go through the motions of pretending interest in whatevert topic du jour and i'm not going to say anything because i';m lazy ? what's the thinking ?
1836445;1532025193;mircea_popescu;category went out of language or something.
1836446;1532025305;mircea_popescu;much in the vein of giancarlo giannini calls mariangela melato "cretina!" and the imbecile translator regales his eager public with "you stupid bitch!". because totally, "cretin!" is not a thing in english.
1836447;1532025415;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, romanian "ratarea", french "c'est rate ( http://trilema.com/2015/laile-ou-la-cuisse/#selection-87.1-89.14 )". it's a fucking category. to fail, not "at something", but as a biological attempt.
1836448;1532025427;mircea_popescu;the process through one becomes a failure.
1836449;1532025585;asciilifeform;i suspect 'bio failure' is pretty abstract concept to fella who wakes up and counts the porches etc
1836450;1532025600;mircea_popescu;i can't imagine why.
1836451;1532025610;asciilifeform;dunno, cuz printing press is kind to him ?
1836452;1532025613;mircea_popescu;so ?
1836453;1532025630;mircea_popescu;broken wing bird's wing's broken in all winds.
1836454;1532025631;asciilifeform;so the 'poor->stupid' circuit dun engage
1836455;1532025733;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836372 << fyi, i appreciate the hackery, but the relevant code is already in the vtools http://btcbase.org/patches/vtools_vdiff_sha/tree/vtools/src/system.h#L145 as I mentioned in logs http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830179 the problem is that byteswapping is non-standard. each libc implements its own. more importantly __bswap64 that PeterL is using is an internal inline function, that exists in
1836456;1532025733;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 15:11 PeterL: while I have the mic: I did end up fixing the problem http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830121 , see http://petermlambert.blogspot.com/2018/07/vdiffshadefineswapvpatch.html
1836457;1532025733;a111;Logged on 2018-06-27 18:03 phf: PeterL: the approach that we've been taking with legacy C code is pulling out autotools, and replacing with a single #ifdef/.. configuration header. outside of linux/bsd code is probably not going to work, and the approach is to look at the configuration header file (http://btcbase.org/patches/vdiff_sha_static/tree/vtools/src/system.h#L145 in case of vtools) and patch it for your system
1836458;1532025734;phf;some libc's (specifically in glibc, musl, there's also a custom one in busybox. presumably cygwin/mingw comes with a glibc derivative), but that shouldn't be used directly. PeterL's patch is not needed on linux/freebsd/apple.
1836459;1532025789;mircea_popescu;it was pretty amusing!
1836460;1532025825;asciilifeform;phf: i in particular won't sign winblowz patches out of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-27#1830228 principle. but if d00d wants to -- he can, his own v branch, i have nfi why he wants to , but it'll sit there, for archaeologists.
1836461;1532025825;a111;Logged on 2018-06-27 21:33 asciilifeform: but dollars to doughnuts if you dun have e.g. pdp11, you won't bother reading its ifdef blocks; and supposing you did read'em, your grasp of what takes place inside won't be worth much if you don't regularly inhabit that platform
1836462;1532025869;mircea_popescu;technically cygwin is linux emulator for windows.
1836463;1532025885;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is, and worx surprisingly well, asciilifeform used it extensively many yrs ago
1836464;1532025899;asciilifeform;even got x running, and entirely unmodified emacs, browsers, etc
1836465;1532025901;phf;yeah, if that ifdef wasn't there, the code would've just worked out of the box
1836466;1532025905;mircea_popescu;so technically cygwin patches not winblowz patches
1836467;1532025920;asciilifeform;right, but cygwin has no use outside of winblowz.
1836468;1532025941;mircea_popescu;be that as it may.
1836469;1532025958;asciilifeform;( tho theoretically, crapple has departed far enuff from posix that it perhaps is ripe for a cygwin-like item . but i dun much care for rescuing crapple drowners, either )
1836470;1532025985;mircea_popescu;alf to pet "your snatch has no use outside of my house" pet retorts "usure ?"
1836471;1532025990;phf;well, crapple user space is a kind of cygwin, but from *bsd
1836472;1532026006;asciilifeform;phf: formerly.
1836473;1532026019;mircea_popescu;they mostly dropped bsd afaik
1836474;1532026024;asciilifeform;today, even e.g. 1990s-vintage irix box, is moar posixy.
1836475;1532026088;asciilifeform;afaik the only republical item that builds unmodified on current crapple is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835881 , and strictly from eschewing pretty much any nontrivial posixism
1836476;1532026088;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 13:42 asciilifeform: phf: say what you will re ada standard, but e.g. ffa is ( afaik! ) a nontrivial and at same time ada2012-compliant proggy.
1836477;1532026095;asciilifeform;*republican
1836478;1532026167;asciilifeform;x11, for instance, no longer comes with crappletrons, and takes substantial gymnastics to install.
1836479;1532026246;phf;i don't know where you're getting this info.
1836480;1532026263;asciilifeform;phf: from having one in the next room, lol
1836481;1532026343;asciilifeform;( per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835841 )
1836482;1532026343;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 12:47 asciilifeform: phf: in commercial work i use things that would turn the strongest stomach. now, as always, speaking of civilized work.
1836483;1532026394;phf;well, it's fud.
1836484;1532026408;asciilifeform;phf: it's a fact, it dun come with x no moar
1836485;1532026415;asciilifeform;phf: visit a shop, see for yourself.
1836486;1532026426;phf;"substantial gymnastics"?
1836487;1532026445;asciilifeform;yes.
1836488;1532026462;asciilifeform;inb4 'use the app store' lol.
1836489;1532026468;phf;...
1836490;1532026479;asciilifeform;say i dun wannt 'use app store'.
1836491;1532026512;asciilifeform;and x aside, do we need to do the gdb thread again ?
1836492;1532026521;asciilifeform;or log suffices
1836493;1532026528;phf;https://dl.bintray.com/xquartz/downloads/XQuartz-2.7.11.dmg
1836494;1532026542;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597418 )
1836495;1532026542;a111;Logged on 2017-01-06 13:03 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phun phakt, i replicated phuctor on a mac lappy (it happened to be the one in the room with sufficient free disk) and it works -- except that apparently gdb no longer works on latest crapple os
1836496;1532026548;mircea_popescu;phf it's a legitimate pov, seriously now. why should i have to follow the (closed source! very tenuous! and burdensome!) process apple chose ?
1836497;1532026561;mircea_popescu;"installs" can NOT mean "use apple appstore". it must mean something in my hand.
1836498;1532026562;asciilifeform;phf: didja get this to run on recent box ?
1836499;1532026569;phf;asciilifeform: yes.
1836500;1532026580;asciilifeform;phf: neato. will have to archive this.
1836501;1532026639;asciilifeform;i'ma readily admit that phf is better crapple wrangler than asciilifeform .
1836502;1532026674;asciilifeform;( i have the box mainly to run -- yes -- microshit vm's ... )
1836503;1532026689;*;mircea_popescu is too lazy to burn the dmg, and discover the ten trillion subtle breakages each of which thoroughly suffices to sink the proposed argument.
1836504;1532026707;asciilifeform;lol mircea_popescu has a crappletron somewhere ??
1836505;1532026716;phf;mircea_popescu: dmg opens with a double click on an apple
1836506;1532026717;mircea_popescu;one of the girls has an old ipad.
1836507;1532026740;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: these dun run on i-*, they're for the intel macs
1836508;1532026754;mircea_popescu;phf and that thing is a pile of software which compiles with a chain of my choice into a functional x for a target (apple) system of my choice ?
1836509;1532026799;phf;mircea_popescu: there's enough goal posts for wide movement in this question, that neither "yes" nor a "no" would be a correct answer
1836510;1532026812;mircea_popescu;care to bolt them down or not really ?
1836511;1532026958;phf;xquartz builds with an llvm for sure, it built with a gcc recently, it's quite likely that it still builds with gcc, since it's a direct fork of freedesktop version (but then it's not clear what crazy things fd put into X11 proper upstream), you can find a range of vintage that'll build all the way back to 10.4, but i'm not sure if you can build what i linked on e.g 10.4 specifically. the bulk of code there is combination of posix AND
1836512;1532026959;phf;bsd libc, there's some creeping divergences that were introduced by apple in parts that are not covered by either posix or libc
1836513;1532027034;mircea_popescu;let's put it this way : should i double click that on an apple, i'd find a bundle so that a) if i exclude all non-text files i can then b) use at least one specified version of a compiler chain i can build in same manner so as to c) produce object files which then d) run on my system.
1836514;1532027080;phf;mircea_popescu: well, the linked bit is a binary, since the bit that i disputed from asciilifeform is "substantial gymnastics"
1836515;1532027099;mircea_popescu;i read "substantial gymnastics" in the sense of, needed to c) above.
1836516;1532027112;mircea_popescu;ie whole lotta b)-wrangling.
1836517;1532027310;phf;mircea_popescu: the upstream X is already a mess of libraries, substantial gymnastics are required to build it on any system without assistance of something like gentoo's portage. in case of apple things are typically distributed as a binary, which is what i linked above. xquartz.org also has the sources, that are patched versions of original freedesktop code. one could theoretically build that by hand, but typically one would use
1836518;1532027310;phf;macports or homebrew which are portage versions for apple. at least macports can still be used to build xquartz from scratch. i've not personally tried that in a long time, so it's possible that there's serious wrecker situation there.
1836519;1532027336;mircea_popescu;i expect there is, yes.
1836520;1532027386;mircea_popescu;but, again, there's no room for this "on windows, we use autoupdate", "on mac we distribute binaries", "in india we shit in the street" w/e. hence the girl old ipad comment.
1836521;1532027445;mircea_popescu;for that matter, apple wants to take advantage of tmsr-style release, let them get in l1. but even before that, it's so shocking to me alf would accept a binary from "bintray.com" as some sort of item.
1836522;1532027452;phf;mircea_popescu: on mac you can use e.g. pkgsrc which is a portable portage from netbsd project, which i have on all my machines. posix things of arbitrary complexity build from it
1836523;1532027484;mircea_popescu;ok, but specifically x is exactly the mess of improbable libraries etc. have you pkgsrc'd it recently anywhere ?
1836524;1532027539;mircea_popescu;(none of this is spurious dicking about, either. we're going to end up needing both some sort of standard of ok-ness on one hand ; and specifically in the case of X it's like, the one looming mysql-esque cuntoo wrecker)
1836525;1532027628;phf;i haven't, i haven't built it in about 2 years, but then i haven't installed it on macs in about two years either
1836526;1532027654;mircea_popescu;and two years ago, how long did it take you to get the wheels to spin ?
1836527;1532027753;phf;i think an insignificant amount of time, ignoring compilation time, but then at the time i knew exactly where to cut, so to speak, and how
1836528;1532027775;mircea_popescu;so something like "no significant gymnastics needed by olympic gymnast" ?
1836529;1532027862;mircea_popescu;for contrast, i recently wasted an entire fucking day with the following bit of gymnastics : http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-15.log.html#t20:35:50
1836530;1532027863;lobbesbot;Logged on 2018-07-15 20:35:50: <mircea_popescu> so the problem consisted of my running through the whole list of http://www.eulorum.org/Ubuntu requisite packages list. libgl1-mesa-dev (which ... isn't even fucking needed, i am now running eulora without it) fucked my video drivers (in a strange halfway manner, prolly fucked some userland wrapper somewhere). reinstalling the nvidia originals fixed it.
1836531;1532027902;phf;correct, though now, dealing with say gentoo i suspect that olympic gymnastics are a requirement to deal with the mess in general.
1836532;1532027902;mircea_popescu;i do not pose as expert gymnast in any sense ; and yes this caliber turd is somewhat common in unixworld altogether. but still, holy hell, fucking gymnastics.
1836533;1532028015;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836521 << how does it differ from 'accepting' crapple's os, full of binary ???, to begin with. box is a toilet.
1836534;1532028015;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 19:10 mircea_popescu: for that matter, apple wants to take advantage of tmsr-style release, let them get in l1. but even before that, it's so shocking to me alf would accept a binary from "bintray.com" as some sort of item.
1836535;1532028025;asciilifeform;it runs virii, all day long.
1836536;1532028026;mircea_popescu;i'll note that everthying the republicans deliver builds like a fucking charm, be it ffa, avetronics or what have you. i've never had a problem of this sort inside the walls.
1836537;1532028061;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i guess. it is called a ~damage~ file after all, rite.
1836538;1532028076;asciilifeform;i operate these, it's how i eat.
1836539;1532028129;asciilifeform;it would not occur to asciilifeform to attempt to live civilized life on a crapple.
1836540;1532028175;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836529 << ftr i haven't in many yrs succeeded in getting 3d gpu running on linux box, so mircea_popescu is ahead of me there
1836541;1532028175;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 19:17 mircea_popescu: for contrast, i recently wasted an entire fucking day with the following bit of gymnastics : http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-15.log.html#t20:35:50
1836542;1532028195;mircea_popescu;i cheat ; as per alf "is a toilet" magics, i just use nvidia's binaries.
1836543;1532028200;asciilifeform;aaah lol
1836544;1532028206;phf;first time i spent two months in india, swiming and eating and pretty much nothing else, i had to perform some very minor operation for the banking contract i was doing at the time: took me an entire day just to get through a 5 minute process, and i cursed and hated the entire time, because the steps were pointless, unnatural, and clearly designed to inflict pain on the operator. i suspect this is how mp feels when dealing with modern
1836545;1532028207;phf;tech. i'm (and ascii) on the other hand are fully imersed in the pain points, you kind of stop feeling them.
1836546;1532028216;asciilifeform;iirc i tried even this, some yrs back, got a box that bombs randomly erry hr or so
1836547;1532028226;mircea_popescu;but as you were typing that, i was thinking "We fucking need an expert gfx card wizard to debinary that shit already"
1836548;1532028261;mircea_popescu;phf i also cultivate it deliberately, because i believe it is (in my case, not necessarily for everyone) a most valuable skill.
1836549;1532028273;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc we had a thread re this ; the gnarl is roughly similar to xilinx reversing ( they switch chip revisions erry quarter or so, by the time a card is ~acceptably reversed , it is long out of print )
1836550;1532028279;mircea_popescu;after all, industrialized intolerance is how i made my living, back in the day.
1836551;1532028317;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the thing is the death of moore bit them in the ass too. i am very happy with 10year old cards as it is. and even when i buy "new", i buy old ones.
1836552;1532028335;mircea_popescu;ie, the video card problem is mostly solved, large stocks exist, getting some chips pried open would be useful.
1836553;1532028341;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: reportedly 10yr vintage cards can be set up without binturd. ( asciilifeform not tried yet. )
1836554;1532028358;*;phf afk
1836555;1532028359;mircea_popescu;yeh, i do not believe it to be an impossible task.
1836556;1532028365;asciilifeform;iirc the breaking point for me was screen rotation, if i can't get 90degree displays i throw card out
1836557;1532028514;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, if it makes you feel better, the nvidia binaries of late are absolutely rock solid, i never ever had a problem ; moreover they even fix shitty apt-get messes.
1836558;1532028521;asciilifeform;interesting
1836559;1532028562;mircea_popescu;actually i'd say they're a standard sui generis, "if you're going to distribute binaries, at least do them as well as nvidia"
1836560;1532028568;asciilifeform;to be fair i can't rule out iron problem, in the case of my old card, i suspect it did not like 24/7 duty cycle
1836561;1532028597;mircea_popescu;should bn a diagnose\
1836562;1532028601;asciilifeform;(inside cabinet with multiple red-hot opterons etc)
1836563;1532028620;mircea_popescu;should be visible in a diagnose or other*
1836564;1532028622;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i never got the on-die thermometer reader to work. possibly improved since.
1836565;1532028708;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836545 << i can't say that i've 'stopped feeling'em', no.
1836566;1532028708;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 19:23 phf: tech. i'm (and ascii) on the other hand are fully imersed in the pain points, you kind of stop feeling them.
1836567;1532028726;asciilifeform;crapple 'plz reboot for update!' is erry bit as infuriating the 9001st time as 1st.
1836568;1532028785;mircea_popescu;aaand apparently my gdb has a memory leak. what the fuck.
1836569;1532028796;mircea_popescu;i can't be the first person to run gdb over multi-week stretches.
1836570;1532028807;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: version ?
1836571;1532028835;mircea_popescu;7.1
1836572;1532028838;asciilifeform;( and can't resist to ask, what makes ya think it's gdb, and not the debuggee )
1836573;1532028863;mircea_popescu;because the debuggee keeps dying, which results in gdb apparently taking water.
1836574;1532028920;asciilifeform;aa unsurprising then, iirc it doesn't actually ever let go of the crash dumps
1836575;1532028974;mircea_popescu;hm
1836576;1532029222;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1836577;1532033656;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/us-charges-chinese-man-outside-of-us-with-breaking-us-law/ << Qntra - US Charges Chinese Man Outside Of US With Breaking US Law
1836578;1532034591;BingoBoingo;!!Up alumno
1836579;1532034592;deedbot;alumno voiced for 30 minutes.
1836580;1532034606;BingoBoingo;Hello alumno, who are you and what brings you around these parts?
1836581;1532034633;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/san-francisco-mayor-overwhelmed-by-street-shitting-in-first-interview-after-taking-office/ << Qntra - San Francisco Mayor Overwhelmed By Street Shitting In First Interview After Taking Office
1836582;1532041769;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836430 << fixed, thanks. linode restarted the thing
1836583;1532041769;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 17:00 asciilifeform: !Q later tell esthlos your www is down ?
1836584;1532041769;lobbesbot;esthlos: Sent 6 hours and 9 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> your www is down ?
1836585;1532041794;mircea_popescu;lol
1836586;1532045226;lobbes;esthlos, you ever consider pizarro shared hosting for your blog? over 99.8% uptime (math used to calculate uptime rate > http://archive.is/7hPmN#selection-1537.42-1539.18)
1836587;1532045492;mircea_popescu;guy's not kiddin' about sellin'.
1836588;1532056413;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/let-me-tell-you-how-bad-i-have-it/ << Trilema - Let me tell you how bad I have it
1836589;1532061271;esthlos;lobbes: would be happy to. good incentive to get my minimal btc out of fractional reserve scambase
1836590;1532062354;mircea_popescu;aaanbd for today's installment of "tales of faffing n' faffers", let's look to 2014! http://trilema.com/2014/an-inventory-of-a-prison/#selection-53.0-55.20
1836591;1532062394;mircea_popescu;henpecking, that ever-so-improbable predictor of personal failure in males.
1836592;1532062826;lobbes;esthlos: now this is very true; if you're going to trust your coin to a 3rd party, it may as well be someone in-wot. anyways, whenever you want to set up an account hop on over to #pizarro. I'm sure BingoBoingo or mod6 can get you started
1836593;1532064114;ben_vulpes;esthlos: deedbot is right there, and a fine shared wallet
1836594;1532071387;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/logbot-multiple-channels-corrected-on-gentoo-tips-n-tricks-for-the-uninitiated/ << lobbesblog - logbot-multiple-channels-corrected on Gentoo: Tips n' Tricks for the Uninitiated
1836595;1532078605;jurov;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836553 << asciilifeform we had this discussion and you barfed at the binary firmware which is still necessary, even for 10y old cards
1836596;1532078605;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 19:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reportedly 10yr vintage cards can be set up without binturd. ( asciilifeform not tried yet. )
1836597;1532086826;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836426 <-- funny. even bucharest, the shithole capital of nowhere in particular, with its swamp atmosphere, managed to get rid of the little bastards in the last decade. 20 yrs ago, very similar "mosquito hell".
1836598;1532086826;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 16:54 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: here in mosquito hell, all i gotta do is to walk three metres out of front door to rubbish pin, and 5-6 welts
1836599;1532092305;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836595 << the vga bios ?? it's, what, 80kB, and runs on boot strictly, you can disasm it ( e.g. see that it dun install oddball smm handlers etc ) , problem is that the work ain't worth much for any 3d card known to me, because still demands multi-MB kernel bincrapola
1836600;1532092305;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 09:23 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836553 << asciilifeform we had this discussion and you barfed at the binary firmware which is still necessary, even for 10y old cards
1836601;1532092349;asciilifeform;spyked: very interesting -- did they bring back the use of ddt ??
1836602;1532092412;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836594 << pretty great. but reminded me , 'As such, I'm just going to provide a pointer to the Quicklisp installation page and leave it at that' << at some point 'quicklisp' will have to be cured. right nao it's an open-ended heathen hole.
1836603;1532092412;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 07:23 deedbot: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/logbot-multiple-channels-corrected-on-gentoo-tips-n-tricks-for-the-uninitiated/ << lobbesblog - logbot-multiple-channels-corrected on Gentoo: Tips n' Tricks for the Uninitiated
1836604;1532092683;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836591 << aah but the linked trilema piece doesn't even tell us about the d00d's henpecking . but luckily the l0gz do: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-28#1440752
1836605;1532092683;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 04:53 mircea_popescu: henpecking, that ever-so-improbable predictor of personal failure in males.
1836606;1532092683;a111;Logged on 2016-03-28 15:32 asciilifeform: lives, iirc, under the heel of his wife (i could be mistaken, but did get this impression from the 4-5 h we spent together)
1836607;1532094437;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in noose re olds , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-18#1699874 >> https://archive.is/JU7ai << 'arbitrary code execution by exploiting a vulnerability within the Lua scripting language engine... ...can be exploited remotely...'
1836608;1532094437;a111;Logged on 2017-08-18 02:24 mircea_popescu: not just the art. wesnoth thing is fine example. apparently someone's idea of "fun" and "playing" is... click through list in cycles.
1836609;1532094606;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform was pretty evident. the end result of the societal changes driven by the roosevelt-socialist government (aptly summarized as "female is the only legitimate owner of property") is that 2nd generation consists of these innefectual males bound to the great mother through the simple fact that well, she owns the hut.
1836610;1532094635;mircea_popescu;a sickening display, especially when they pretend this has something to do with "civilisation". it eminently does not, castration is not medicine and cuckoldry is not civilisation.
1836611;1532094656;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, i wasn't surprised when d00d confessed. ( tho admittedly 'under the heel' d00dz existed in the past, and even orcistan, e.g. saharov )
1836612;1532094710;asciilifeform;it's a character flaw, property chumpatronics has very little to do with it i suspect
1836613;1532094742;mircea_popescu;there's a difference between when stupidity is a character flaw, such as in mongolia, and when stupidity is a social requirement, such as in san francisco.
1836614;1532094743;asciilifeform;or hey, consider the old shoemaker.
1836615;1532094759;asciilifeform;he wasn't a cuck because elena owned his house. simply had malfunctioning balls.
1836616;1532094765;mircea_popescu;yes, obesity always existed. not like at walmart. yes cancer always existed. not like in detroit. and so following.
1836617;1532094772;asciilifeform;right
1836618;1532094776;mircea_popescu;shoemaker WAS A SOCIALIST
1836619;1532094787;asciilifeform;so was, say, stalin.
1836620;1532094790;mircea_popescu;i'm talking of human beings here. obviously the scum is broken.
1836621;1532094802;mircea_popescu;i don't hold stalin in much more regard either.
1836622;1532094820;*;asciilifeform holds post-1941 stalin in quite high regard.
1836623;1532094834;asciilifeform;pre-'41 stalin was a sort of precocious kid.
1836624;1532094838;mircea_popescu;why ?
1836625;1532094905;asciilifeform;cuz 'Сталин принял Россию с сохой, а оставил с атомной бомбой'(tm)(r)
1836626;1532094939;mircea_popescu;ok, but this is like holding djb in a lot of regard because mathematician. sure, certainly. yet still utter shithead when it comes to you know, living, or making sense of & in the world.
1836627;1532094962;mircea_popescu;the shoemaker's literal shoemaking skills, admirable as they might've been, fail to hold interest.
1836628;1532094991;asciilifeform;dunno, last d00d who managed to make orcs perform to human spec, was peter. apparently they happen erry 300y or so.
1836629;1532095041;mircea_popescu;so if someone demonstrated how to produce handheld calculator out of 100 tons of oak trunks, you'd do anything besides shake your head ?
1836630;1532095063;mircea_popescu;"wouldn't it be cheaper to do it the normal way ?" "what then of all this wood ?" "i dunno, make tootpicks or something"
1836631;1532095074;asciilifeform;i would, if whole of 'civilized europe' crushed like insect under said 'calculator'.
1836632;1532095085;mircea_popescu;"god damn it, wood is to have a future also!!11 it will be butter, it will be glass!"
1836633;1532095101;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, it might crush whole of your left foot. would that impress greatly ?
1836634;1532095111;mircea_popescu;"what sort of foot is this, doesn't even crush 100 tons of wood trunks!!!"
1836635;1532095133;mircea_popescu;in short, seems to me a tad simplified, all this.
1836636;1532095142;asciilifeform;i seem to recall mircea_popescu speaking approvingly of e.g. tamerlane, garbage-collecting whole continent of defective civs
1836637;1532095151;asciilifeform;it needs doin'.
1836638;1532095160;mircea_popescu;stalin garbage collected nothing, which is how we have the wailing set of today's "germans".
1836639;1532095166;mircea_popescu;about as german as i'm gay.
1836640;1532095186;asciilifeform;this -- valid.
1836641;1532095216;asciilifeform;however personally i count it as lucky break that he left some romanians, heh.
1836642;1532095235;mircea_popescu;roflmao.
1836643;1532095346;*;asciilifeform can't comment fully objectively, as he is muchly product of the 'wood trunk' , in 9000 ways.
1836644;1532095364;mircea_popescu;anyway. socialist, see ? what "garbage collecting" ended up meaning for him was "how about we send a buncha caucasian farmboys to give berliner chicks a mn or so not-specifically-wanted new pregnancies. so they can all grow up "together" and sing lalala."
1836645;1532095394;mircea_popescu;this... i mean, sure, man's admirable. but what he sets himself to doing, is both driven by inept ideology and dysfunctional. heroic as he might be in the doing, the deed's ultimately fucking stupid.
1836646;1532095430;mircea_popescu;as that expression goes, "the smartest tools in the world aren't worth diddly squat when applied to a faulty premise"
1836647;1532095463;mircea_popescu;kinda how the usg manages to produce nothing out of the shredding of whatever their share of rembrandts & eulers would be, in a population 20 times the size.
1836648;1532095484;mircea_popescu;you know the joke with the insane asylum residents loading a truck ?
1836649;1532095495;asciilifeform;funnily enuff , stalin by all appearances realized that he's working with defectives, went through 3 rounds of killing off the left half of his staff , evidently needed 4th, 5th, but old age caught up.
1836650;1532095523;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hm?
1836651;1532095575;mircea_popescu;truck stops in insane asylum courtyard, the locals are drafted to help unloading. happily they proceed : three get up on the bed on the left side, throw things to people down, who pass it hand-by-hand to the people on the right side, who build it right up. "merge treaba ?" "merge!!!11"
1836652;1532095607;asciilifeform;ahahalol
1836653;1532095610;mircea_popescu;my grandmother told me this joke when i was 5 or so. i had forgotten it ; but then i met america, and hence i can't get it out of my mind.
1836654;1532095626;asciilifeform;applies!
1836655;1532095675;mircea_popescu;"how to ensure a future for our children ?" "by elaborately doing nothing with all we've got all day long!" "but... why ?!" "because then they'll be perfectly able to do exactly what we're doing in turn, and the doing something will maybe be forgotten!"
1836656;1532095756;mircea_popescu;thence "human rights" aka nobody HAS TO ever do anything ; and "caring for the environment" ie nobody can use anything external for any purpose ; and "raising awareness" ie "isn't your bellybutton lint fascinating!!" and so fucking on.
1836657;1532095773;asciilifeform;bonsaikittenization via 'comfort' is well-understood process, it killed erry empire to date.
1836658;1532095784;mircea_popescu;and indeed it works splendidly, i can't remember the last time anyone noteworthy was born in our colonies.
1836659;1532095985;asciilifeform;soon as they sat down on the 'comfort' train, as described in http://trilema.com/2016/mochila-o-muerte/#selection-103.0-103.437 , it was done deal.
1836660;1532096008;asciilifeform;'It's really very much a thing, and the collapse of traditional society, with its reusable houses intended for multiple generations, populated with cast iron pots capable of making many thousands of meals and solid oak tables to be slowly ground into cleanliness each week eerily reflects the return of agitated young males from the battlefields of World War Two. Who's going to tell "our brave boys" that they can't have what they want
1836661;1532096008;asciilifeform;? And so traditional culture gave way to consumerist culture, proper meals became bags of chips and bottles of pop not for any other reason than the satisfying tearing sound, that fschhhh of a bottle that's never again going to be a bottle ever again, and here we are'
1836662;1532096118;mircea_popescu;this reads familiar...
1836663;1532096124;asciilifeform;lol
1836664;1532096155;asciilifeform;observe, stalin sent a good 1 in 4 of 'brave boys' to go an' cut wood, dig for uranium. so bought his project another 50y.
1836665;1532096185;*;asciilifeform brb,teatime
1836666;1532096201;mircea_popescu;i'm not impugning either the man or his work product. yes, through stalin "russian" became a thing to be, much like through hammurabi or david or whatever prior etc.
1836667;1532096271;mircea_popescu;i'm sure he meant well and he tried hard and all that, heck, reduced the peasantry something fierce.
1836668;1532096482;mircea_popescu;but the fundamental failure imported via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818281 leads to this sad situation where asciilifeform , product of said wood as he deems himself, is sitting with idiots all day playing their idiocy games, so as to be able to work at making small faberge eggs with me at night, informally an' under the covers. why the fuck is not asciilifeform working on really great faberge eggs in the tzar's own p
1836669;1532096482;a111;Logged on 2018-05-24 18:22 asciilifeform: ( recall mao's, when asked 'was french rev a good idea' 'too soon to say' )
1836670;1532096482;mircea_popescu;alace in st leninburg ?
1836671;1532096656;mircea_popescu;they shot the wrong part of the tzar, of course. as per ye olde, ye eternally olde and never going anywhere http://trilema.com/2015/the-rabbi-and-the-ewe/#selection-39.437-39.522
1836672;1532096676;jurov;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836599 yes i meant that kernel bincrapola
1836673;1532096676;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 13:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836595 << the vga bios ?? it's, what, 80kB, and runs on boot strictly, you can disasm it ( e.g. see that it dun install oddball smm handlers etc ) , problem is that the work ain't worth much for any 3d card known to me, because still demands multi-MB kernel bincrapola
1836674;1532096751;jurov;all opensource drivers depend on the "sys-kernel/linux-firmware" package too
1836675;1532096945;mircea_popescu;jurov do you know why ?
1836676;1532097101;jurov;no
1836677;1532097240;mircea_popescu;if we're lucky enough it could simply be a "because nobody could be arsed to make it properly before, but could simply be replaced with source"
1836678;1532098978;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836668 << entirely so.
1836679;1532098978;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 14:21 mircea_popescu: but the fundamental failure imported via http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818281 leads to this sad situation where asciilifeform , product of said wood as he deems himself, is sitting with idiots all day playing their idiocy games, so as to be able to work at making small faberge eggs with me at night, informally an' under the covers. why the fuck is not asciilifeform working on really great faberge eggs in the tzar's own p
1836680;1532099061;mircea_popescu;this cult of the holy subtitution, you know ? "we'll replace 30mn germans with 100mn russians, through a whole lotta http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-15#922644 ; it's true they're not very good, but they can fight acceptably even with wooden musket!"
1836681;1532099061;a111;Logged on 2014-11-15 00:28 asciilifeform: one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe.
1836682;1532099093;mircea_popescu;"why would you want to fight with a wooden musket ?" "THEY ARE CHEAPER TO MAKE!" "they also don't work ?" "nevertheless!"
1836683;1532099114;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836675 << it's similar to the situation with the GB nics ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631811 thread ) -- the opentards write driver which includes half a meg of .h hexolade, 'initializations', lifted from the vendor turd, and somehow this still is considered 'open'
1836684;1532099114;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 14:29 mircea_popescu: jurov do you know why ?
1836685;1532099114;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 16:33 asciilifeform: GB nics have 2 parts, that are electrically independent and often made by separate firms, the 'mac' and 'phy' (the latter is what actually drives the transformer, the former -- what you/os think of as 'the nic')
1836686;1532099132;mircea_popescu;to which a cripple by the sidelines is quick to add "besides, it's not true they don't work in any absolute, objective sense. if everyone used wooden muskets they'd work out in the end just as good as now..."
1836687;1532099373;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836677 << coupla yrs back asciilifeform was able to guess the internal arch and disasm some of that nic init crapola. it's completely meaningless without somehow reversing the die -- consists of coupla thousand writes to hardware regs of unknown function. i suspect that this is entirely typical.
1836688;1532099373;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 14:34 mircea_popescu: if we're lucky enough it could simply be a "because nobody could be arsed to make it properly before, but could simply be replaced with source"
1836689;1532099407;mircea_popescu;that is that ; this was linux system binaryism.
1836690;1532099411;asciilifeform;( cpu microcode is same story )
1836691;1532099426;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: both examples are 'linux system binarism' here
1836692;1532099430;mircea_popescu;hm.
1836693;1532099441;asciilifeform;it simply happens that asciilifeform prioritized nics over vga
1836694;1532099450;asciilifeform;( i can live w/out vga... )
1836695;1532099454;mircea_popescu;in the end, making hardware registers is cheap enough...
1836696;1532099521;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-28#1440750 << trying to read this old log and it makes no fucking sense whatsoever ?! opponent, what ?!
1836697;1532099521;a111;Logged on 2016-03-28 15:29 phf: guy come strutting after his opponent leaves and starts talking tough? i don't know him, but that just spells loser
1836698;1532099561;mircea_popescu;o wait, meanwhile scrolled up enough ; this is the very dragon day, isn't it.
1836699;1532099573;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc thread was about TaT et al making brief comeback to kako chan
1836700;1532099629;mircea_popescu;the workings of the stupid brain. he EVIDENTLY KNOWS what he's doing wrong, and why and wherefore. necessarily, or else what, it's all an accident ?
1836701;1532099667;asciilifeform;i've since forgotten over what precisely he was finally drummed out... iirc he raised a stink over demise of 'war of life' www or something related
1836702;1532099668;mircea_popescu;this is definitely the contribution of modernity to the human bestiary, items who know plain well they're doing the wrong thing and proceed nevertheless. such a wonder'd be incomprehensible to say aristotle.
1836703;1532099673;mircea_popescu;not encountered in the classical world.
1836704;1532099732;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i have no idea, schmuck never had the decency to say.
1836705;1532099783;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-20#1740888 << aah there we go.
1836706;1532099783;a111;Logged on 2017-11-20 00:45 asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/waroflife-swol-october-2014-statement-closing/ << subj
1836707;1532099830;mircea_popescu;oh you think ?!
1836708;1532099850;asciilifeform;iirc that was when he dropped off the radar, fwiw.
1836709;1532099868;mod6;jesus, that was in '14
1836710;1532099879;mod6;where does the time go, eh?
1836711;1532099884;asciilifeform;later he was seen consorting with gavin, kanzure et al.
1836712;1532099958;mircea_popescu;lol recall the good old days of 2012, when a "different" confederacy of dunces was all herpaderp ?
1836713;1532099980;mod6;:]
1836714;1532099995;mircea_popescu;i expect as the empire loses any hope of "oh, mp doesn't matter, we got ethereum" we'll be coming right back to that, "consensus" stuff.
1836715;1532100017;*;asciilifeform was partially tuned in , but barfed, in those days, hence the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=939 item etc
1836716;1532100086;mod6;As long ago as S.WOL closed, the Foundation was started up the same month.
1836717;1532100107;asciilifeform;( prior to that was http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-14#1825518 and entirely uninterested in dealing with 'btc komyooniti' in any shape whatsoever )
1836718;1532100107;a111;Logged on 2018-06-14 18:51 asciilifeform: trinque: in trips down lulzmemorylane, asciilifeform blew a good % of 2011 on halfcocked attempt to get miner going on surplus-usg boards with xilinx fpgas (in varying conditions of mutilation)
1836719;1532100215;mircea_popescu;mod6 nah, there was something else, i suspect rather http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
1836720;1532100248;mircea_popescu;ie, i think the item was dood's idea, i supported it (ie, with money), then when it became obvious there can't be such a thing as "altcoin" i stopped supporting it and plainly said so (and why).
1836721;1532100282;asciilifeform;that was a quite serious experimental result. d00d oughta have taken it as honour to have helped produce it
1836722;1532100309;mod6;I've got a boat load of ATC still.
1836723;1532100311;mircea_popescu;i believe he just couldn't cope, because a) "this dude supported MY IDEA!!!! and then withdrew without ~private~ consultation" and b) this dude SPOKE OUT as to the flaws of item. both of these barbaric acts contradicted his expectations (because ustards #1 contribution to the "value add" of any "company" or "project" they're involved with is hiding its flaws from the public)
1836724;1532100349;mircea_popescu;and then he just couldn't cope, because items like "there's no need for private consultation once thermodynamics makes the purpose illegitimate" is just not something he ever encountered or can deal with.
1836725;1532100383;asciilifeform;i can picture this. it beggars belief tho, because ' mp: d00d, yer tanker has no bottom ' ' tat: but i want to sail!! ' 'mp : sail by yerself then '
1836726;1532100383;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but there's a tradition of petty characters taking poorly to "unexpected" (or, even more cheekily, "undesirable") experimental results.
1836727;1532100412;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i dunno how much time you spent in boardrooms of "blue chip" usg "companies", but this is ~99.9x% of the fare.
1836728;1532100430;asciilifeform;it's exactly same, afaik, diff is that they got the printing press
1836729;1532100458;mircea_popescu;and it is a fundamental problem, yes. the idea that impossibility is a legitimate secret is fundamental to the whole construction. not here and there, but quite universally and to laughable extents.
1836730;1532100545;mircea_popescu;anyway, he could have handled it a lot better, but it's one of those "girl come out of a whore dynasty and who spent most of her days on porn set even since she was 5 could've handled her dress coming off at the wedding party better". sure, she could've, if anyone had as much as told her that not all parties consist of her taking all available cocks in all available holes.
1836731;1532100625;mircea_popescu;mod6 i expect i might too. nfi.
1836732;1532100728;mircea_popescu;anyway, hurting people who misbehave in face of "unexpected"  (or, even more cheekily, "undesirable") experimental results is definitely a prime directive. because if you don't do it, you'll end up being friends with them, and being friends with them is going to ruin you for experimental work. cue that whole "liars can't be scientists" discussion here.
1836733;1532101024;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836702 -> hm, what, people didn't use to lie to themselves that well or what? I rather suspect it's simply that they don't leave any trace/interest over that much time
1836734;1532101024;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 15:14 mircea_popescu: this is definitely the contribution of modernity to the human bestiary, items who know plain well they're doing the wrong thing and proceed nevertheless. such a wonder'd be incomprehensible to say aristotle.
1836735;1532101042;mircea_popescu;diana_coman aristotle literally says "no one would do wrong knowingly".
1836736;1532101058;diana_coman;yes; but "know"..
1836737;1532101062;mircea_popescu;this is such a central part of classical discourse on ethics, and it perdures so undisturbed any serious criticism, that...
1836738;1532101068;diana_coman;he "knows" rather than knows
1836739;1532101075;diana_coman;hence my "lying to themselves"
1836740;1532101078;mircea_popescu;well ok, if you prefer, "the modernity contribution to humanity is to produce shattered knowers" ?
1836741;1532101114;mircea_popescu;not even diogenes, as vitriolic as he was throughout, attacks ~this~ particular point.
1836742;1532101149;mircea_popescu;to no ancient mind that i know of, this "i know it's wrong, and yet i do it" fundamental of bureaucracy was anything but xenon, of a sort beyond insanity.
1836743;1532101171;diana_coman;that sounds actually a perfect description; shattered knowers indeed
1836744;1532101243;mircea_popescu;anyway, i fully blame christianity for this particular disaster. the introduction of "sin", ie, "things that are right and you do but arbitrarily called wrong" is what created the crease in the human psyche, ripe then for the reversion of modernity, bureaucracy's own "i know it's wrong, and yet i do it".
1836745;1532101275;diana_coman;funnily enough I was thinking precisely of that mapping: the "it's wrong but I did it" ~= "sin"
1836746;1532101301;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, sin is a term for "arbitrarily defined wrongs that aren't".
1836747;1532101313;diana_coman;and oh, we are all sinners anyway (metoo!!) but as long as ...repent, it's ok
1836748;1532101373;mircea_popescu;hard to miss the similarity between one treponema pallidum and another. yes that's the corckscrew it used to destroy tissue.
1836749;1532101509;*;mircea_popescu can't look at the monstrous gummatous heads on display at teh musée de l'homme and not thing "look! christians!"
1836750;1532101641;diana_coman;lol! why syphilis specifically?
1836751;1532101781;mircea_popescu;transmitted chiefly through sex, right ? seemingly "healthy" right ? lengthy history of "cures", brought upon us by the french for the orient... take your pick.
1836752;1532101791;mircea_popescu;the similarities far surpass the differences.
1836753;1532101834;mircea_popescu;pretty much in any one definite aspect you pick, christianity is more likely to resemble syphilis than any other thing.
1836754;1532102023;diana_coman;antibiotic as cure too, might be, lol
1836755;1532102074;mircea_popescu;lol. but this aside, it is true that the alternate hypothesis is simply "complexity drives the shattering by itself".
1836756;1532102134;mircea_popescu;diana_coman for the record, i count this in confirmation. if we look at plots-over-time, the introduction of antibiotics limited severely but not completely eliminated both afflictions.
1836757;1532102212;mircea_popescu;one could say "but mp, you've not explained the manner in which antibiotics and xtianity interract", which seems like an argument until you stop to realise the mechanism of action of fucking paracetamol is not yet understood either.
1836758;1532102218;diana_coman;basically a super-bug, requires a stronger anti-biotic
1836759;1532102509;asciilifeform;hey shinohai -- loox like your www eggogs
1836760;1532102544;mircea_popescu;!!up shinohai
1836761;1532102544;deedbot;shinohai voiced for 30 minutes.
1836762;1532102565;shinohai;its up for me
1836763;1532102566;lobbesbot;shinohai: Sent 1 day, 0 hours, and 54 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836359 << ?? plox to comment.
1836764;1532102726;asciilifeform;shinohai: loads nao; looks like intermittent thing
1836765;1532102826;shinohai;Might eventually rehome www, but have current one paid up so meh.
1836766;1532104021;mod6;If you and lobbes make amends, you could be a Pizarro customer.
1836767;1532104207;Mocky;!!rated lobbes shinohai
1836768;1532104207;deedbot;lobbes has not rated shinohai.
1836769;1532104224;Mocky;mod6, why not customer today?
1836770;1532104234;asciilifeform;!!rated shinohai
1836771;1532104235;deedbot;asciilifeform rated shinohai 3 at 2018/01/24 23:16:20 << heathendom newsdesk; pogotronics, trb, FG experimenter
1836772;1532104271;mircea_popescu;!!ratings shinohai
1836773;1532104273;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/I9tTE/?raw=true
1836774;1532104289;mircea_popescu;!!reputation shinohai
1836775;1532104291;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hfynq/?raw=true
1836776;1532104322;mircea_popescu;mod6 no - there, am i blind ?
1836777;1532104353;asciilifeform;lol i dun see any minus either
1836778;1532104359;asciilifeform;and d00d oughta self-voice.
1836779;1532104368;mod6;Mocky: Like he said, I think he's got another arrangement paid up.  But there is the other question of the -2 from lobbes.  And there was a rule we put in place a while ago, whereby if a TMSR Lord had neg-rated you, you couldn't become a customer.
1836780;1532104405;asciilifeform;mod6: look in the actual wot -- dun seem like there's a current rating from lobbes at all
1836781;1532104425;mircea_popescu;http://wot.deedbot.org/260fa57bce677a5c04bf60ba4a75883cc1b1d34c.html << there it is.
1836782;1532104433;mod6;Oh maybe the deedbot webpage isn't up to date.  Lemme check the rep link above.
1836783;1532104440;asciilifeform;oh hm, bug ??
1836784;1532104462;mod6;Oh perhaps lobbes removed it.
1836785;1532104475;asciilifeform;hey trinque , which table of these is actually realtime ?
1836786;1532104499;mircea_popescu;!!gettrust lobbes shinohai
1836787;1532104499;deedbot;L1: 0, L2: 11 by 8 connections.
1836788;1532104503;mircea_popescu;removed.
1836789;1532104511;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the wot graph etc is ~daily.
1836790;1532104561;mod6;Well, with that removal, shinohai is clear, and may become a customer if he so desires.  :]
1836791;1532104609;mircea_popescu;looking at my own, it's definitely more than a day, seeing how eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834548 is not reflected, and week+ old.
1836792;1532104609;a111;Logged on 2018-07-14 16:12 mircea_popescu: !!rate elaineo -10 http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1836793;1532104631;mircea_popescu;trinque listen, the usefulness of that thing is significantly hampered by mounting inaccuracy like this. can it be made to be <daily ?
1836794;1532105204;trinque;last timestamps on the files are from earlier today.
1836795;1532105204;lobbesbot;trinque: Sent 1 day, 3 hours, and 3 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> possible bug in wot display ( https://archive.is/3Z7ZW , scroll to bottom )
1836796;1532105315;trinque;will have to see wtf when I get a sec
1836797;1532105353;mircea_popescu;trinque but i look : http://archive.is/2I97y#selection-12063.1-12079.110
1836798;1532105354;mircea_popescu;right.
1836799;1532105866;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836681 << was rereading this vintage thread; funnily enough , early pre-vtronics discussion
1836800;1532105866;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 15:04 a111: Logged on 2014-11-15 00:28 asciilifeform: one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe.
1836801;1532108021;mircea_popescu;just about.
1836802;1532108199;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in the day's crop of fetlolz, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YddxO/?raw=true
1836803;1532108279;mircea_popescu;how exactly "I would like to warn you. I come from a very strong German family." squares up with "I lived as an involuntary slave for three years so excuse me for not being interested in being a sub to a male." is anyone's guess ; but we could of course suspect that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836639 an' http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-25#992038 respectively apply.
1836804;1532108279;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 13:59 mircea_popescu: about as german as i'm gay.
1836805;1532108279;a111;Logged on 2015-01-25 20:41 decimation: "Concretely, this has meant giving massive publicity and a momentous political significance to the 17 people killed in the Charlie Hebdo and related attacks. This contrasts sharply with the treatment given to any number of other recent tragedies: the 1,400 girls raped by largely Pakistani gangs in Rotherham, England, the tens of thousands of victims of Islamist terrorism in Syria, and the over 4,000 people killed in the Donbass
1836806;1532108406;mircea_popescu;and then she wants to pick a beef with ~me~ of all fucking people.
1836807;1532108432;asciilifeform;'And he’ll yes I treat my life like a supermarket. It’s my gd life for fucks sake lol' << ahahaha jwz!
1836808;1532108460;asciilifeform;'I don’t wear my tail because it’s cute or looks good in photos. I wear it because inside I’m untamable as a wild animal' << aaa waat
1836809;1532108642;mircea_popescu;i have nfi.
1836810;1532108665;mircea_popescu;pretty much no one part goes with any other part, it's like in that joke with the policemen intelligence test.
1836811;1532108687;mircea_popescu;1% of policemen -- intelligent. 99% -- strong.
1836812;1532108904;asciilifeform;reminds me of a daily life lulz ; not long ago asciilifeform repaired a washing machine, early '90s item , one of the last made in usa . and it had clamps on internal hoses that could not be reached with any conceivable tool, repairer was evidently expected to supply 20-30kg of squeeze with... hand.
1836813;1532108907;mircea_popescu;but anyway, in my head summary goes like "rambunctious 16yo attempted to http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ ; ended up with inept pimp ; found "jesus" in the shape of http://trilema.com/2018/hey-women-did-you-know-that-before-the-pantsuited-hilarity-gave-you-your-civil-rights-you-were-living-in-slavery/ neo-neoprotestant xtianity ofshot". so now she finds herself in this situation where fire is bad because it burned her aun
1836814;1532108907;mircea_popescu;ty and so on.
1836815;1532109059;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform sounds about right. keeps normies away from getting in trouble, 1950s childproofing.
1836816;1532109074;asciilifeform;keeps little gurlz away, i guess
1836817;1532109090;*;asciilifeform had no prob with clamps
1836818;1532109103;mircea_popescu;eulora for a long time had a "no craft table inside craft table" rule heh.
1836819;1532111747;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/cloud-mining-op-hashflare-runs-away-from-bitcoin-mining-contracts/ << Qntra - Cloud Mining Op Hashflare Runs Away From Bitcoin Mining Contracts
1836820;1532112707;mircea_popescu;"the problem that has arisen" huh.
1836821;1532112789;mircea_popescu;but at least the "investor" "herpderpwearebtc" crowd is now on assbook.
1836822;1532114551;BingoBoingo;Not long before the rest of them are trapped there
1836823;1532116021;mod6;jurov: Hi, can you take a look and see if there is an email from me stuck in the btc-dev queue?  I did check the signature was valid before I sent, but nothing has been posted yet.
1836824;1532116143;mod6;Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic:  The Bitcoin Foundation's vtree has been updated with asciilifeform's Aggressive PushGetBlocks vpatch.  The TRB-HowTo Guide has been updated as well.
1836825;1532116253;asciilifeform;oh hey
1836826;1532116322;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf plox to update stable trb tree in http://btcbase.org/patches from mod6's
1836827;1532116322;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1836828;1532116335;mod6;Thanks, asciilifeform
1836829;1532116419;asciilifeform;1st patch to make it to flagship branch since 'makefiles', iirc.
1836830;1532116483;mod6;Yup, there are some more that I want to add in there as well.  Got them on the conveyor.
1836831;1532116500;asciilifeform;mod6: there's the manifest thing; what else was there
1836832;1532116536;mod6;Hm, I wasn't taking about the manifest thing really, which is another whole question not completely answered.
1836833;1532116553;asciilifeform;mod6: then which ?
1836834;1532116585;mod6;But I was thinking of ben's hash truncation, and maybe his increased aggression.  We'll see.
1836835;1532116595;asciilifeform;aah
1836836;1532116599;mod6;Almost for sure the former.
1836837;1532116612;asciilifeform;imho ben's oughta be a toggle, for side-by-side test
1836838;1532116616;shinohai;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836790  <<< see: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-6-1#367373 - Especially since said company operates partly on funds from a foundation I assisted and donated to for years.
1836839;1532116616;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 16:36 mod6: Well, with that removal, shinohai is clear, and may become a customer if he so desires.  :]
1836840;1532116617;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-06-02 22:57 shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-02#1820300  <<< Even if this were resolved, I have pretty much decided Pizarro wouldn't meet my current needs or risk profile, if at anytime after posession of my BTC and equipment one of the lords might LARP about and negrate me.
1836841;1532116624;mod6;asciilifeform: agreed
1836842;1532116686;shinohai;Also, kudos on the m/l update
1836843;1532116748;asciilifeform;shinohai: didja see the deedbot www thing, where you have null strings for all yer outgoing ratings ? was this deliberate setting, or is trinque's mechanism buggy ?
1836844;1532116779;*;asciilifeform brb,tea
1836845;1532116842;shinohai;asciilifeform: I simply rated all that mattered on my list with single integer until dust settled.
1836846;1532116850;shinohai;No bug on trinque 's part
1836847;1532117127;mircea_popescu;mod6 been a while huh! nice
1836848;1532117171;mod6;Thanks, Sir.
1836849;1532117317;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836840 << and you perceive this is different from ~literally~ every single other isp out there without exception how, exactly ? other than, of course, that here ~you actually know~ the lords, and can talk to them without having to be me and http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-i-ended-up-suing-phoenix-nap-llc-on-how-ira-r-cadwells-mom-stephanies-going-to-lose-her-chula-vista-home-on-how-marcus-boh
1836850;1532117317;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 19:56 mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-06-02 22:57 shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-02#1820300  <<< Even if this were resolved, I have pretty much decided Pizarro wouldn't meet my current needs or risk profile, if at anytime after posession of my BTC and equipment one of the lords might LARP about and negrate me.
1836851;1532117317;mircea_popescu;n-is-going-to-catch-a-lot-of-shit-for-that-on-assorted-othe/ ?
1836852;1532117359;mircea_popescu;something is broken in this reasoning ; or rather should i say something broken keeps right on producing paralogisms come hell or, apparently, high water. now, what exactly is it ?
1836853;1532117389;shinohai;Current provider is in US, I can sue anytime I like. Working well for Johnson & Johnson so far.
1836854;1532117472;mircea_popescu;o you can sue! i see.
1836855;1532117502;mircea_popescu;so then if that's your preferred mechanism, the obvious question would be, what are you doing here ?
1836856;1532117607;shinohai;Well I stopped in here as it is the preferred forum for trb matters, but if my presence is not welcome - well then!
1836857;1532117617;mircea_popescu;leaving aside practical points such as "there's not yet been a case in suedocket that took less than the longest the forum ever took to resolve a matter, and by a factor at that", not to mention this is yet the only court that doesn't charge filing fees, and other minutia.
1836858;1532117653;mircea_popescu;shinohai your presence is not ~impressive~, which seems to be the principal problem you're having. no, it's not, and this has nothing to do with anyone else but you.
1836859;1532117782;asciilifeform;shinohai: can relax, nobody is out to eat you, and yer a+++ trb tester, my rating for instance stands.
1836860;1532117869;trinque;asciilifeform: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-7-31#402252
1836861;1532117870;mimisbrunnr;Logged on 2018-07-19 08:03 shinohai: Also, implying I care to contribute to the "Republic" anymore.
1836862;1532117874;mircea_popescu;i for one'd have been infinitely more impressed with ~some sort!!!~ of mark of reflection in the vein of "holy shit, i've been doing it for months, produced ~0.0% of what this douchebag character the wind just blew in one day produced". because that's that's ever impressive, clear signs that the intelect's alive, not dead in the box.
1836863;1532117897;asciilifeform;trinque: i assumed d00d changed his mind, given as he came back, appears to have resumed useful work
1836864;1532117942;mircea_popescu;don't you find, in some sort of inner fold, that the situation where you're the baron titsbare and this other dood's getting the tits bare requires some sort of introspection ? at all ? nada ?
1836865;1532118001;asciilifeform;afaik shinohai dun have dayjob, so only thing competing for his attention is the beach. so potentially could do serious work.
1836866;1532118021;mircea_popescu;and that potentially stretched like melting cheese, over years.
1836867;1532118031;asciilifeform;!#born shinohai
1836868;1532118031;a111;2015-03-17 <shinohai> ty danielpbarron. how goes it in the land of #bitcoin-assets
1836869;1532118031;a111;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-17#1055347
1836870;1532118051;asciilifeform;~3y. young fella.
1836871;1532118060;mircea_popescu;adlai died younger.
1836872;1532118068;asciilifeform;tru
1836873;1532118075;mircea_popescu;it ~can~ be done, especially if one sets his mind to it.
1836874;1532118113;mircea_popescu;but in any case, this "omg guise why are you not more impressed with my potential" is 2013 fare, and indulgently.
1836875;1532118161;shinohai;Speaking of the beach, I'm off. No time to rehash trivial shit.
1836876;1532118163;shinohai;!!down
1836877;1532118186;mircea_popescu;right, because unfucking a fucked head's literally the last priority.
1836878;1532118273;asciilifeform;imho he quite definitely has a brain, and isn't politically disaligned, even ( his www is imho a++, sorta qntra-flavoured ) , but recently bit by a tick or sumthing, preoccupied with some inscrutable insult to honour or i dunno. potentially recoverable.
1836879;1532118308;trinque;I figure let kicking patient die.
1836880;1532118368;asciilifeform;trinque: all else being equal, i prefer to at least try an' triage , not like we're awash in surplus hands. but whoknows, possibly yer right
1836881;1532118384;mod6;Well, as he said, I don't think he's interested in contributing to TMSR~ any longer.  Even if he wants to follow trb, for instance, can do so from the BTC-DEV list.
1836882;1532118389;trinque;eh I extended the same kind of thing in that thread I linked
1836883;1532118406;mod6;No need to hang around, really.
1836884;1532118429;asciilifeform;d00d gotta figure out what he wants, and quickly, or will surely end up on wrong end of the 'кто не с нами тот против нас'(tm)(r) stick
1836885;1532118470;mircea_popescu;well, either that or he's gonna sue.
1836886;1532118474;asciilifeform;lol
1836887;1532118538;mircea_popescu;anyway, part of the problem is that on one hand http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-19#1836436 and on the other hand the sort of people who even go to business school so to speak, choose that through a very "less work than tech" heuristic. which means they find it EXCEEDINGLY difficult to not play-to-the-thrown-curve, so to speak.
1836888;1532118538;a111;Logged on 2018-07-19 18:05 mircea_popescu: yes, teh republic is un poco carente in the commercial lines ; nevertheless the epsilon here far exceeds the zero there.
1836889;1532118553;asciilifeform;i dun even get it, myself, all this allergic rash on a d00d who wasn't even negrated
1836890;1532118575;mircea_popescu;which is how we've ended up with the ridiculous situation we find ourselves in, a sort of "left arm three times thicker than right -- jacks off with left"
1836891;1532118587;trinque;asciilifeform: wanted to bail far earlier, got his opportunity
1836892;1532118620;trinque;what was it, your "coiled snake" term?
1836893;1532118623;asciilifeform;trinque: i dun get it, could've quit any time, nobody is keeping anybody
1836894;1532118725;asciilifeform;trinque: if he had hidden grudge etc, it is mystery to me, against whom, and over what.
1836895;1532118748;mircea_popescu;in any case, any fix to the "why is republic so weak commercially ??" question will contain ample doses of beating the "i did enough work -- as compared to line average" approach out of the hopefuls.
1836896;1532119253;mircea_popescu;trinque you should probably publish those http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-21#1647094 ; because to the https://archive.is/FBFvR#selection-3637.1-3759.26 / redditard mind this is somehow the grand equalizer, "they're gonna sue". cuz that's something they can totallies do and everything.
1836897;1532119253;a111;Logged on 2017-04-21 18:06 trinque eyeballs his roughly 100k legal bill from last year
1836898;1532119273;mircea_popescu;inescapably reminds me of mimi' going "spara, brigadiere!", because srsly now.
1836899;1532119462;trinque;the fucker only got bigger; yeah, I might throw that up redacted sometime
1836900;1532119480;trinque;only thing suing can do is bankrupt the other side. sort of a breath-holding contest
1836901;1532119607;mircea_popescu;well not according to a captioned image i found on instagram!
1836902;1532119689;mircea_popescu;but yes, getting movement through courts is a WHOLE lot more skilled work than getting a whatever the fuck nothing he didn't do, i don't even remember, social media something or the other.
1836903;1532119863;jurov;mod6: done
1836904;1532120016;mod6;Great! Thanks :]
1836905;1532120037;mod6;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-July/000305.html
1836906;1532120657;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836863 << how useful is useful ? because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-07#1516905 for instance goes quite well with the unflattering self-portrait he's been working on ever since april.
1836907;1532120657;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 20:18 asciilifeform: trinque: i assumed d00d changed his mind, given as he came back, appears to have resumed useful work
1836908;1532120657;a111;Logged on 2016-08-07 19:26 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-07#1516894 << holy FUQ shinohai do you also use a hammer when vga plug won't fit into keyboard jack ?
1836909;1532120701;mircea_popescu;was that ever anything besides "not ideal", or just... you know... god forbid some feelings get hurt, let's look some other way etc.
1836910;1532122612;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836900 << i dun think i've yet met a usaschwitz inmate who sees it in any other light
1836911;1532122612;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 20:44 trinque: only thing suing can do is bankrupt the other side. sort of a breath-holding contest
1836912;1532122714;asciilifeform;( if trinque is embroiled in a usa patent suit, i dun envy him )
1836913;1532122728;trinque;naw, pettier shit than that, and matter resolved
1836914;1532122734;asciilifeform;aa
1836915;1532122749;asciilifeform;( patents court -- guaranteed loss of shirt )
1836916;1532124613;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/hollywood-pervert-purge-continues-as-pantsuits-enact-gunn-control/ << Qntra - Hollywood Pervert Purge Continues As Pantsuits Enact Gunn Control
1836917;1532128760;trinque;wahaha, what a title
1836918;1532130687;asciilifeform;reminds me of that 1930s(?) d00d, named french, in the electric chair, last words 'tell the press -- french fries! haha'
1836919;1532132482;BingoBoingo;tyvm
1836920;1532137758;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo sadly there's no such film.
1836921;1532137774;BingoBoingo;Yet!
1836922;1532137830;mircea_popescu;it'd also be ungodly long. pubescent girls are usually too derpy to manage in under a coupla minutes.
1836923;1532139325;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in 2014 rereads, http://trilema.com/2014/the-great-post-of-rebuttals/
1836924;1532139336;mircea_popescu;did that fucktared 5 columnist in the hat sink or is he still derping about ?
1836925;1532140791;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in hollywood highschool restroom, https://78.media.tumblr.com/eca0882bac5ec6b52b52d2151b3c9da2/tumblr_mxpklrIeC61rm0ow7o1_1280.jpg
1836926;1532141485;asciilifeform;aah but where is hallway coat!11
1836927;1532141571;mircea_popescu;she's writing for the atlantic.
1836928;1532143272;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/fuck-argentina/ << Trilema - Fuck Argentina.
1836929;1532146220;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1836928 << oblig oldthread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-04#1636878
1836930;1532146220;a111;Logged on 2018-07-21 03:21 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/fuck-argentina/ << Trilema - Fuck Argentina.
1836931;1532146220;a111;Logged on 2017-04-04 00:25 asciilifeform: ( i will say, 0 of the things that drove mircea_popescu barking mad about the place, bother me at all. then again i was there for a week.. )
1836932;1532146318;asciilifeform;on top of this, asciilifeform strongly suspects that dumber, sadder aboriginals than his current ones, exist entirely nowhere outside of perhaps africa
1836933;1532146966;asciilifeform;( fact however remains : asciilifeform needs 'night life' like fish needs thyratron. )
1836934;1532150791;mircea_popescu;hey, i liked it fine the first week.
1836935;1532151457;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in blockchain experts, http://truths89.tumblr.com/
1836936;1532167171;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836601 <-- afaik they make aggressive use of k-othrine (possibly others) in public places. /me has been hearing the bug-spray cars consistently pass by during warm seasons. I dun remember being stung by mosquitoes for more than a coupla times in the last few years.
1836937;1532167171;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 13:12 asciilifeform: spyked: very interesting -- did they bring back the use of ddt ??
1836938;1532167191;spyked;ftr, this does nothing for flies. still fulla them.
1836939;1532167345;spyked;also ftr, there are places throughout town which are abundant in vegetation (e.g. the vacaresti delta) which I expect are populated with the variety huge of mosquitoes.
1836940;1532167360;spyked;*variety of huge
1836941;1532167399;spyked;in other news for the rotaku:
1836942;1532167407;spyked;!S en-ro mud
1836943;1532167408;spykedbot;muddle things together/ up, to: a amesteca/ incurca lucrurile
1836944;1532167416;spyked;also works the other way around:
1836945;1532167427;spyked;!S ro-en fata
1836946;1532167427;spykedbot;a acoperi cheltuielile, a face fata cheltuielilor: to meet the expenses
1836947;1532167489;spyked;this will serve as demo for trilemabot command handling, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-05#1820730
1836948;1532167489;a111;Logged on 2018-06-05 12:49 spyked: I'm reserving another bot for the rss functionality. but I want to use spykedbot to make a small trilemabot example for implementing prefixed commands. spoiler: I have some code that looks up definitions in asciilifeform's ro-en dictionary ( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2211 ), it's the smallest application that I could find that also does something useful.
1836949;1532167579;spyked;(currently bot only looks up expr dictionary. if anyone is interested by this functionality and wants moar, lemme know)
1836950;1532182739;mircea_popescu;nb.
1836951;1532184000;asciilifeform;spyked: pretty neat
1836952;1532184098;mircea_popescu;!S ru-fr
1836953;1532184166;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was thinking, about your argentines : remember the oddball who ordered FG and never picked up at the post ? i still can't fathom.
1836954;1532184194;mircea_popescu;!S ru-fr кто не с нами тот против нас
1836955;1532184207;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform conceivably hadn't the dough.
1836956;1532184215;asciilifeform;i think his bot is just a grep in the old ro idiom dict
1836957;1532184222;mircea_popescu;o ho.
1836958;1532184267;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: oh ha, they taxed'em, didn't they. like brits.
1836959;1532184295;mircea_popescu;prolly 3x like brits, because gotta show they to real country.
1836960;1532184297;asciilifeform;still interesting that somebody might have btc but can't muster pesos.
1836961;1532184306;mircea_popescu;except when subs don't work by themselves, of course. that's unfair comparison.
1836962;1532184322;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform notrly. lotta people had btc for accident, in the 2010s.
1836963;1532184328;asciilifeform;troo
1836964;1532184444;asciilifeform;country of great tombs, and ??? people, sorta like egypt ( iirc mircea_popescu did egypt, wouldja say similar ? )
1836965;1532184746;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1836936 << this might be the key re why mosquito hell in usa 'suburbia' -- the only public land there, is the asphalt. ( who wants spraying , has to specifically pay , and they come and spray out poison that kills errything that moves, frogs, cats, dogs, etc )
1836966;1532184746;a111;Logged on 2018-07-21 09:59 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836601 <-- afaik they make aggressive use of k-othrine (possibly others) in public places. /me has been hearing the bug-spray cars consistently pass by during warm seasons. I dun remember being stung by mosquitoes for more than a coupla times in the last few years.
1836967;1532184838;mircea_popescu;hey, third world shithole is third world shithole, what.
1836968;1532184842;asciilifeform;when 'shopping center' or 'condo block' monstrosities built in usa , they also seem to invariably feature what is by all appearances a purpose-built mosquito breeding pond.
1836969;1532184852;asciilifeform;( nominally 'rainwater runoff' )
1836970;1532186214;BingoBoingo;AHA, back in old country they did Malathion
1836971;1532186481;BingoBoingo;Like with Uncle Al's medflies
1836972;1532187352;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/south-african-government-refusing-documents-for-refugees-resettling-elsewhere/ << Qntra - South African Government Refusing Documents For Refugees Resettling Elsewhere
1836973;1532187443;mircea_popescu;lmao. so great that the fucktard pantsuit fought apartheid. 10 years later, they can fight the first white massacre since haiti.
1836974;1532187455;mircea_popescu;awareness engine produces its own inputs.
1836975;1532187752;BingoBoingo;History rhymes
1836976;1532187802;mircea_popescu;their history is fucking copy-paste, what rhymes.
1836977;1532187851;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: ru does have infamously lulzy immigration laws
1836978;1532187880;BingoBoingo;The rhyming is a side effect of copypasta
1836979;1532187918;asciilifeform;( for aficionados -- https://archive.is/7zELS << orlol on subj )
1836980;1532187946;asciilifeform;^ he moved there, and still only counts as 'tourist'
1836981;1532188408;asciilifeform;naturally orlol omits to mention ~why~ ru immigration laws. ( there's a quite straightforward prime mover -- millions of su plankton formerly living in various newly-'independent' goatfuckistans packet suitcases in '90s and all tried to squeeze somehow into moscow and petrograd , quite impossible to fit )
1836982;1532188418;asciilifeform;*packed
1836983;1532189942;*;ben_vulpes rattles trinque's cage
1836984;1532190206;trinque;shenanigans.
1836985;1532190428;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform eh, that was rank nonsense. VERY fucking stupid choice. 1990 ru was a) perfectly equipped to produce 10-100mn smq of hruscheba living space per month. b) 1990s ru was EXACTLY in the position where the best use for its effort was to do just that. buy the losers 30 years in which to decide if they really wanted petrograd residence.
1836986;1532190441;mircea_popescu;they TOTALLY should have laid track, brought in the cranes, prefab to the skies.
1836987;1532190444;asciilifeform;1990 yes, 1993 nope.
1836988;1532190448;asciilifeform;was ~zimbabwe.
1836989;1532190454;mircea_popescu;should have done in 1990, no 1993.
1836990;1532190462;mircea_popescu;the way they went, ended up "crisis", usg fuckpuppet.
1836991;1532190471;asciilifeform;'if i knew where will fall, would've put something soft' (ru proverb)
1836992;1532190487;mircea_popescu;eh gimme a break. everyone fucking knew except for the "factors responsible"
1836993;1532190496;mircea_popescu;fuck them with a sharp stick for being condolezza rice without even being niggers.
1836994;1532190519;asciilifeform;the sharp still is still in, and prolly won't even emerge from mouth for another 100y.
1836995;1532190523;mircea_popescu;i'd say "they should have come to #trilema and asked", but i guess they get a break for pre-trilema age.
1836996;1532190523;asciilifeform;*stick
1836997;1532190584;mircea_popescu;just those 10 trn cubic meters of poured concrete would have created "russian miracle" by itself.
1836998;1532190588;mircea_popescu;observe how well it worked for china.
1836999;1532190653;asciilifeform;su brass was in full nest-feathering miami mode, the d00d who sold the coal that was meant to keep primorye above 0c in winter being prime example
1837000;1532190671;mircea_popescu;idiots.
1837001;1532191443;asciilifeform;to the extent there was a logic, i suspect it was a venezuelan logic, 'washington will pay for titanium and petro, but didn't say it wants 40mil aboriginals with these'
1837002;1532191523;asciilifeform;pretty much whole of su brass 'strategy' from ~1985, was http://trilema.com/2018/the-principal-agent-problem-or-how-america-went-away/#selection-231.0-243.1 .
1837003;1532191547;mircea_popescu;who the fuck asked shittington any fucking thing jesus christ.
1837004;1532191612;asciilifeform;~none of the managerial caste showed any symptom of desire to keep the boat floating, but plenty of enthusiasm re tearing off choice planks to make rafts.
1837005;1532191644;mircea_popescu;this is EXACTLY like, instead of using programmable machines to talk to every girl on fetlife and enslave some, i'd use them to "start-up". because "san francisco never said it wants a bunch of enslaved women with computers".
1837006;1532191645;mircea_popescu;DUH ?!
1837007;1532191673;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform made wrong raft the wrong way. mine fucking floats. theirs floated so fucking well, putin's cut their heads off.
1837008;1532191731;asciilifeform;he's the fella with the biggest raft, even has identifiable pieces of the bridge and periscope still attached, is all.
1837009;1532191800;mircea_popescu;this is altogether unclear.
1837010;1532191872;asciilifeform;plox to expand ?
1837011;1532192297;asciilifeform;and i'll admit, it is unclear still to me where the inhabitants of '100mn sqm of hruscheba' were to be employed , fed with what. su industry imploded, the ex-su space is to this day a land of ruined factories with missing roofs , like the outskirts of timis.
1837012;1532192437;asciilifeform;su circa '90 was , sure, 'healthy but for one thing', like the organs of guillotined man.
1837013;1532192500;mircea_popescu;the reason soviet industry imploded was lack of demand. construction drives all sectors, the building itself would have bought them ~decade to figure shit out.
1837014;1532192513;mircea_popescu;and in a decade of figuring shit out, they may have found something. that's ~their~ fucking job.
1837015;1532192528;asciilifeform;why is 'we'll eat by brushing each other's hair' hilariously stupid when modern usa does it, but somehow could've worked in su ?
1837016;1532192590;mircea_popescu;building is very different from doing laundry.
1837017;1532192615;mircea_popescu;coupled with a general feeling of "cheap life" (ie, all the ukr whores going to moscow instead of milan), it'd have attracted, eg, me.
1837018;1532192632;mircea_popescu;if russia went as described, i'd have likely moved there when i was looking around in early 2000s
1837019;1532192731;asciilifeform;afaik there was no shortage of whores etc. in '95 ( and even some mircea_popescus ) , didn't seem to help
1837020;1532192799;mircea_popescu;all the better ones were out of there.
1837021;1532192844;asciilifeform;not so easy to compete with milan, where, what, 7 months of springtime
1837022;1532192884;mircea_popescu;let's disambiguate whore : http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#footnote_7_74280
1837023;1532192935;asciilifeform;right, correct whores
1837024;1532192997;mircea_popescu;not ~easy~ to compete with milan, but spring over idiots-speaking-idiot-language is not a pushover.
1837025;1532193029;mircea_popescu;the mistake, as usually when people make large scale mistakes, was in incorrectly handling cunt.
1837026;1532193044;asciilifeform;re the other kind ( 'It's a forced thing, which they don't enjoy and at which they're therefore not any good, predictably enough' ) reminds me of shalamov's anecdote where 2 gulag zeks hear a call for carpenters and say 'me, me, i'ma carpenter' despite never having held a saw 'because what, any idjit can cut wood' and promptly falling into lulz
1837027;1532193058;mircea_popescu;mmmyeah.
1837028;1532193100;mircea_popescu;and the above, ftr, is not idle "woulda coulda". i actually did send both people and materiel, and even followed briefly in early 2000s, research expedition.
1837029;1532193108;*;asciilifeform believes
1837030;1532193110;mircea_popescu;set moron bit on new-soviet exactly as on previous set and moved on.
1837031;1532193214;mircea_popescu;all graham's wank re "omg, what does it take to produce silicon valley" is entirely besides the point. what it takes to produce the town is the town-lie, and "take your pick of teenaged cunt, weekly auctions" is much better implementation of that than mission district's own "money for nothing".
1837032;1532193221;mircea_popescu;nobody ~really~ wants money.
1837033;1532193242;asciilifeform;right, can't eat it, or fuck it
1837034;1532193259;mircea_popescu;quite.
1837035;1532193285;mircea_popescu;amusingly, 100% of requisites were on the table. just, blockhead "leadership" assembled pc into wooden block.
1837036;1532193300;asciilifeform;hence 'guillotined man' summary.
1837037;1532193317;asciilifeform;post-'85 or so, there was no brain.
1837038;1532193320;asciilifeform;just biomass.
1837039;1532193337;mircea_popescu;same could be said of whatever tmsr reject. yet THEY DIDNT HAVE TO not have a brain
1837040;1532193342;mircea_popescu;for the exact same money, could have had brain.
1837041;1532193425;asciilifeform;goes back to the fundamental thread, of why 'brain' packed off to miami, milan, etc.
1837042;1532193449;asciilifeform;( not only brain. arse, also -- iirc gorby nao in germany )
1837043;1532193830;mircea_popescu;heh
1837044;1532193915;asciilifeform;sorta what death is, neh; head, arse, 'go their own way', stomach happily digests self, gut bacteria open up 'independent biznis' while there's fat to eat.
1837045;1532193972;mircea_popescu;i suppose this is true.
1837046;1532194207;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com soldiers on , pretty good summaries imho.
1837047;1532195048;mod6;yeah, i like this ^
1837048;1532198630;esthlos;speaking of which asciilifeform : past two weeks have shown that 4 logs a day is unsustainable. my log reading time is not decreasing as I had hoped it would
1837049;1532198669;esthlos;current plan is to push the reading hard I can manage next few weeks, and get a better sense of the sustainable rate
1837050;1532201830;mircea_popescu;2/day is still pretty good, you'll be caught up before you die. i expect it's actually the natural limit
1837051;1532202679;BingoBoingo;Well you never know, bus factor et al.
1837052;1532202712;BingoBoingo;And there may be a couple days requiring more than a day to digest
1837053;1532205656;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836797 << that one just didn't take
1837054;1532205656;a111;Logged on 2018-07-20 16:49 mircea_popescu: trinque but i look : http://archive.is/2I97y#selection-12063.1-12079.110
1837055;1532205666;trinque;!!gettrust mircea_popescu elaineo
1837056;1532205666;deedbot;L1: 2, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
1837057;1532205668;trinque;errr
1837058;1532205673;mircea_popescu;um ?
1837059;1532205681;trinque;!!rated mircea_popescu elaineo
1837060;1532205682;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated elaineo 2 at 2017/09/26 04:47:52 << somehow manages to write unirritatingly while also academia. i have yet no theory as to how this is possible.
1837061;1532205710;trinque;thing's running daily as expected
1837062;1532205722;mircea_popescu;what the fuck
1837063;1532205723;trinque;I'll still see about narrowing the loop when I find time
1837064;1532206090;Mocky;seems like mircea_popescu tends to !!v in private. everyone sees intent, nobody knows when concretized
1837065;1532206200;mircea_popescu;seems right.
1837066;1532206383;asciilifeform;trinque: would it be difficult to make deedbot announce ratings in-chan when they happen ?
1837067;1532206410;asciilifeform;seems to me that this would solve problem, and without demanding that folx !v etc inchan
1837068;1532206477;asciilifeform;then again technically this'd go against mircea_popescu's 'speak when spoken to' dictum for bots, so oughta ask him 1st
1837069;1532206508;trinque;no, because the thing considers $placeToRespond = $sourceOfCommand
1837070;1532206521;asciilifeform;deedbot already 'speaks out of turn' tho when rss pings
1837071;1532206556;Mocky;sounds like spam vector
1837072;1532206581;asciilifeform;Mocky: not if squelched to l1-raters only
1837073;1532206581;Mocky;anyone can reg a key and rate, neh
1837074;1532206584;trinque;also sounds like "feature creep in response to circumstance that isn't really killing anybody"
1837075;1532206587;Mocky;true
1837076;1532206644;asciilifeform;trinque: imho it is ugly that ratings of and by l1 folx can happen ( or, if buggy , not happen, lol ) with 0 log footprint
1837077;1532206728;trinque;what is this buggy shit?
1837078;1532206751;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1837053 << ?
1837079;1532206751;a111;Logged on 2018-07-21 20:40 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-20#1836797 << that one just didn't take
1837080;1532206843;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform meh, why add all the states.
1837081;1532206851;mircea_popescu;if you care whether x knows y, ask x.
1837082;1532206890;mircea_popescu;and seriously, this "i shall use wot without talking to people" tack is self defeating. the ONLY item wot tells you is whom to ask. nothing more. absolutely nothing more.
1837083;1532206890;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what states. simply print copy of success output 'x rated y -10 lamer' etc into chan , neh
1837084;1532206908;mircea_popescu;<asciilifeform> Mocky: not if squelched to l1-raters only <
1837085;1532206917;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what then is point of deedbot www , if 'oughta ask every time'
1837086;1532206929;mircea_popescu;same point as any other www. nothing.
1837087;1532206945;mircea_popescu;you wouldn't operate on basis of wikipedia. what, you think lordship less serious than medicine ?
1837088;1532206951;mircea_popescu;medicine only kills one idiot at a time.
1837089;1532206988;asciilifeform;pharma biz much moar effective, lay down 1m idjits at a time..
1837090;1532207075;mircea_popescu;me will link here an article he's publishing later, because "I really feel no need to be notified each time my dumb bimbo and some random loser exchange e-grams." is worthy quote.
1837091;1532207250;asciilifeform;i dun necessarily disagree with above, but must point out possibly mislabeled reactor control, either l1-issued rating is a public event, and then really oughta be part of forum record; or otherwise it is strictly 'between us gurlz , and gotta ask erry time'; but right now n00b could not tell that it ain't meant to be entirely the former
1837092;1532207426;mircea_popescu;it's a public event between us gurlz.
1837093;1532207459;mircea_popescu;yet another one of the very many disadvantages for the cattle outside the walls, is that our private lives are public matters for them, that they can't touch. whopsee.
1837094;1532207490;asciilifeform;i still dunget how wot benefits from ambiguity.
1837095;1532207501;mircea_popescu;what ambiguity ?
1837096;1532207522;asciilifeform;'did mircea_popescu rate elaineo +2 or -10'
1837097;1532207533;trinque;!!rated mircea_popescu elaineo
1837098;1532207533;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated elaineo -10 at 2018/07/21 20:50:49 << http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
1837099;1532207547;asciilifeform;oh hey fixed.
1837100;1532207556;trinque;he's seriously going to keep on with the "buggy" thing eh?
1837101;1532207564;asciilifeform;lol not if fixed
1837102;1532207586;trinque;I did nothing, the man had an OTP spare out of the many. it happens
1837103;1532207613;asciilifeform;what's otp spare
1837104;1532207659;mircea_popescu;i have nfi how ; but out of the 200 or so otps one died en route.
1837105;1532207669;asciilifeform;interesting
1837106;1532207697;mircea_popescu;i also don't know how i picked as example THE ONLY EXAMPLE
1837107;1532207716;trinque;deedbot was also "connected but not" just earlier, ben_vulpes alerted me
1837108;1532207736;trinque;freenode is as shitty as ever, not that I'm grabbing that as a catch-all for weird behavior
1837109;1532207746;asciilifeform;nsa tape swap day.
1837110;1532207902;trinque;in compounding ironies, I stood up my own ircd_ratbox earlier out of curiosity
1837111;1532208459;mircea_popescu;anything good ?
1837112;1532209467;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/how-do-you-like-being-a-twerking-wigger-slave-on-my-internet-lulzcow-farm/ << Trilema - "How do you like being a twerking wigger slave on my internet lulzcow farm ?"
1837113;1532209789;trinque;works alright, oughta spend more time with it before recommending. claimed to be what runs efnet.
1837114;1532209977;*;asciilifeform looks at 'ircd-ratbox' , somewhat astonished at the mass, coupla MB of src (moar than, e.g., trb)
1837115;1532210044;asciilifeform;( for all i know, it could still be the best example available. but, still , nuts )
1837116;1532210132;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ( asciilifeform never used fetlife.. ) why is it that the bois are able to read your slutograms ? ( are all posts public ? )
1837117;1532210326;mircea_popescu;this is a "writing", basically a blogpost.
1837118;1532210388;asciilifeform;aa
1837119;1532210514;mircea_popescu;but yes, all of fetlife is public, idle posturing to the contrary notwithstanding.
1837120;1532224861;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in teh shower, https://78.media.tumblr.com/fbcf0b9f62d07c9ce4617e3257606a20/tumblr_mtznuzQfqi1sbxn7po1_1280.jpg
1837121;1532237670;lobbes;trinque, ben_vulpes, I can't seem to get logbot to send messages from the 'outbox' table. Could either of you confirm that I'm entering data into the 'outbox.target' field in the right format? (e.g. does it need to be a 'raw' IRC message instead?) >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lRoDB/?raw=true
1837122;1532237680;lobbes;I'm seeing the NOTIFY messages in postgres when I insert into the outbox table, so I think the triggers are working. Log table is also getting inserts which confirms that irc/sbcl/postgres are interfacing. I'm trying to rule out any obvious things I might be missing
1837123;1532248165;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1836952 <-- atm it only knows ro-en and en-ro expressions, but I'm putting this (and other $srclang-$dstlang) in the queue. I'm curious if I can find dictionaries and put them into the proper format.
1837124;1532248165;a111;Logged on 2018-07-21 14:41 mircea_popescu: !S ru-fr
1837125;1532248453;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1836965 <-- also, bucharest has a stable population of sparrows and other small birds during spring and summer (this in addition to the usual pigeons). some swallows, blackbirds, I've even seen woodpeckers at times. this in stark contrast to "civilized world" towns, where 0 birds, I've no idea what keeps them away.
1837126;1532248453;a111;Logged on 2018-07-21 14:52 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-21#1836936 << this might be the key re why mosquito hell in usa 'suburbia' -- the only public land there, is the asphalt. ( who wants spraying , has to specifically pay , and they come and spray out poison that kills errything that moves, frogs, cats, dogs, etc )
1837127;1532248556;mircea_popescu;spyked wait a second, i dun follow. so it's just a word-substituter from list ?
1837128;1532248596;spyked;mircea_popescu, yeah. looks up words from asciilifeform's text dictionaries.
1837129;1532248598;mircea_popescu;spyked champion level of that is -- butterflies. i had butterflies flying overhead WHILE INSIDE OCEAN.
1837130;1532248676;spyked;the thing I dun get is: bucharest is (if we're to believe official stats) one of the most polluted towns in europe. so why no birds in geneva. they must do something to keep them away.
1837131;1532248709;mircea_popescu;99.x% alsphalt.
1837132;1532248901;spyked;that makes sense. most of the sun blocked here is by a thick wall of trees outside the window.
1837133;1532249136;spyked;re. dictionary, I could also add google translate, but I expect that performs badly for expressions. let's take for example...
1837134;1532249141;spyked;!S ro-en da de furca
1837135;1532249141;spykedbot;a da de furca/ a da bataie de cap cuiva, a deranja/ a importuna pe cineva: to put smb. to trouble, to give smb. trouble
1837136;1532249154;spyked;google translates this to "give it a fork". wtf.
1837137;1532249300;*;spyked should improve the matching algorithm though. should allow for partial matches and selecting from multiple matches somehow.
1837138;1532249308;spyked;!S ro-en da cuiva de furca
1837139;1532249308;spykedbot;a da cuiva de furca: give smb. a gruelling time, to
1837140;1532254187;diana_coman;give it a fork in the eye - might work
1837141;1532275269;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837129 << i suspect that butterfly is not quite perfect 'clean air gauge' : i've seen monarchs fluttering in the dourest cement jungles of usgistan.
1837142;1532275269;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 08:36 mircea_popescu: spyked champion level of that is -- butterflies. i had butterflies flying overhead WHILE INSIDE OCEAN.
1837143;1532278151;hanbot;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837139 << ahaha did google translate make a pun?!
1837144;1532278151;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 08:48 spykedbot: a da cuiva de furca: give smb. a gruelling time, to
1837145;1532278200;asciilifeform;hanbot: the thing dun googletranslated, it's simply a grep into http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-19#1740761 .txt
1837146;1532278200;a111;Logged on 2017-11-19 19:22 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ro_eng_tech.txt  http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ro_eng_expr.txt   << 313333337 w4r3z
1837147;1532278341;hanbot;ah, okay. i misread as gt test run.
1837148;1532278398;mircea_popescu;!S ro-en pizdele dau luzerilor de furca
1837149;1532278398;spykedbot;No entries found for pizdele dau luzerilor de furca.
1837150;1532278426;mircea_popescu;spykedbot well, the google translate approach is dubious at best, but at least ~it handles all inputs~. this is an important property.
1837151;1532278478;mircea_popescu;now, for obvious reasons direct substitution engine on basis of dictionary list doesn't work -- language flexion, "a da de furca" becomes x DAU y DE FURCA and so on.
1837152;1532278497;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, fwih lisp is exactly ideal for this sort of tokenize-and-replace job. cuz ai and everything right ?
1837153;1532278544;mircea_popescu;(something very similar was the original impetuus for mp asking ben_vulpes for candi [where is she btw ?] only to then discover after a whole day of basic-training-with-admirals that in fact the memory footprint for what i had in mind was ~infinite)
1837154;1532278604;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in re: output of archaeology dig re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831796, and in particular http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-04#1732905 : turns out, the orig theoretical model was a 1989 su item, kostylev & astanin's 'основы сверхширокополосных радиолокационных измерений' . then in early 2000s anglo academitards picked it up, and in 2009 subj 'died' after usg dictate 'i
1837155;1532278604;a111;Logged on 2018-07-05 16:40 mircea_popescu: current gear can't deal with pulse piracy
1837156;1532278604;a111;Logged on 2017-11-04 15:09 asciilifeform: oh upstack re radios, the 'why not use aperidic wave, and entire spectrum' thing was of course not long ago hannobockized and redhatized by usg shills, as 'uwb (ultrawideband)' and 'regulated' and other rubbish.
1837157;1532278604;asciilifeform;mprisoned' uwb to a uselessly short wavelength ( 2-4GHz, with a dip at 3 to 'avoid interfere with gps' ). the academitards naturally bent over backwards , killing whole forest printing paperola re 'optimal fcc-compliant gaussian pulse generation', some konsoomer crud was sold with 'uwb' to transmit vga over 3-4 metres in a room, and that was that.
1837158;1532278663;asciilifeform;the funny, if obvious, bit, is that pulsing worx just fine over whatever band. just needs the correct pulse waveform.
1837159;1532278678;asciilifeform;( but of course you won't find it in anglo 'literature' . )
1837160;1532278881;asciilifeform;lulzily enuff, for own needs , usg ( they use the limba de lemn 'low probability of interception' ) prefers old-fashioned 'frequency hopping', which requires nanosecond time synchronization ( i.e. for the gps sats to work ).
1837161;1532278969;asciilifeform;as for 'uwb', they were content to issue ban edicts, and then for good measure to bernsteinize all of the remaining 'experts' they could get to.
1837162;1532279181;asciilifeform;basic idea, however buried under mountain of paper rubbish, is deadly simple : instead of periodic wave, you send shaped bursts of 'static' that cover entire $band ( ideally, below noise floor ); on other side, receiver has a correspondingly-shaped filter. pulse position encoding + luby etc. for receive.
1837163;1532279277;asciilifeform;interestingly, both tx and rx end is considerably simpler, physically, than conventional periodic radio -- you dun need oscillators, tuners, at all. aside from pulse shaper, whole thing fits in fpga.
1837164;1532279628;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837141 << they're very sensitive to some classes of pollutants. unlikely the sort to be encountered in wash dc, there's no skyscrapewrs there, there's ~no industrial processes going and so on.
1837165;1532279628;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 16:01 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837129 << i suspect that butterfly is not quite perfect 'clean air gauge' : i've seen monarchs fluttering in the dourest cement jungles of usgistan.
1837166;1532279649;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, auto exhaust apparently aint it.
1837167;1532279658;mircea_popescu;not these days no mo.
1837168;1532279669;mircea_popescu;ye olde diesel truck cloud of burnt oil, very much.
1837169;1532279688;asciilifeform;funnily enuff plenty of old-fashioned burnt oil exhaust in usa -- from grass-cutting crapola
1837170;1532279700;asciilifeform;( by some accounts, good % of the 'smellable' pollution )
1837171;1532279709;mircea_popescu;very likely.
1837172;1532279715;mircea_popescu;"leafblower" etc
1837173;1532279749;asciilifeform;they dun get 'emissions laws' Because Reasons (tm)
1837174;1532279828;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837161 << possibly in the folder of "secret nobus of the future". which yes is a thing
1837175;1532279828;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 17:02 asciilifeform: as for 'uwb', they were content to issue ban edicts, and then for good measure to bernsteinize all of the remaining 'experts' they could get to.
1837176;1532279838;asciilifeform;oohyea
1837177;1532279860;asciilifeform;wunderwaffen directorate.
1837178;1532279870;mircea_popescu;"managed science".
1837179;1532279954;asciilifeform;lulzy how 'seekrit wunderwaffen' academiban leaves black hole a mile wide that can be seen with naked eye in broad daylight.
1837180;1532279989;mircea_popescu;"can be seen". by whom ?
1837181;1532280002;asciilifeform;by folx willing to open their third eye!111
1837182;1532280009;mircea_popescu;you're not supposed to exist, you know.
1837183;1532280016;asciilifeform;so i gather.
1837184;1532280074;asciilifeform;y'know, sorta like su physics folx were somehow expected not to notice in 1940 that 'phree world' academia stopped mentioning uranium.
1837185;1532280399;mircea_popescu;the color of uranium delicious cake is yellow.
1837186;1532283331;BingoBoingo;Aite, the apartment now has a plant
1837187;1532283858;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: thanks for teh ping
1837188;1532283873;mircea_popescu;thanks for the bot! lol
1837189;1532284075;ben_vulpes;lobbes: that the outbox table has entries in it suggests that logbot-start-pg-thread was never called
1837190;1532284873;lobbes;ben_vulpes: Ah okay, thank you. Perhaps my postgres installation is borked w/ regards to threading then
1837191;1532285585;lobbes;problem is I can't even figure out -where- the thing is failing. Just.. silently doesn't work. I got to figure out how logging works with sbcl REPL I guess
1837192;1532287293;asciilifeform;oh almost forgot, for thread-completeness : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837154 << >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/astanin_kostylev.djvu << for the serious aficionado.
1837193;1532287293;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 16:56 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in re: output of archaeology dig re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-05#1831796, and in particular http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-04#1732905 : turns out, the orig theoretical model was a 1989 su item, kostylev & astanin's 'основы сверхширокополосных радиолокационных измерений' . then in early 2000s anglo academitards picked it up, and in 2009 subj 'died' after usg dictate 'i
1837194;1532287339;asciilifeform;( and no there is no eng version published. anglos dun like to translate, they like to 'rediscover', lol )
1837195;1532287522;asciilifeform;^ vehehehery tasty 'yellow cake', for the literate.
1837196;1532287618;asciilifeform;lobbes: how logging works with sbcl REPL << sorta what 'slime' is for
1837197;1532288418;lobbes;yeah, looking like I'm gonna need to bite the bullet and learn some emacs already
1837198;1532289199;phf;asciilifeform: your sig for aggressive pushgetblocks is binary
1837199;1532289200;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 2 days, 0 hours, and 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> plox to update stable trb tree in http://btcbase.org/patches from mod6's
1837200;1532289515;phf;^ updated
1837201;1532289621;mod6;<+phf> asciilifeform: your sig for aggressive pushgetblocks is binary << confirmed.  i didn't even notice o.O
1837202;1532289790;asciilifeform;phf: oh hm
1837203;1532289807;asciilifeform;iirc these can be fixed via mechanical conversion, without re-sign
1837204;1532289825;asciilifeform;lessee...
1837205;1532289860;asciilifeform;jurov: would it be simple matter to patch turdatron to reject these ?
1837206;1532289991;mod6;fwiw, that one is the only one not ascii: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZGV8I/?raw=true
1837207;1532290085;asciilifeform;ok, ftr :
1837208;1532290114;asciilifeform;cat asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig.sad | gpg --enarmor | sed 's|ARMORED FILE|SIGNATURE|' > asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig
1837209;1532290126;asciilifeform;^ produces asciified and valid sig , from sad sig.
1837210;1532290132;phf;asciilifeform: while you're at it, ffa_ch4_ffacalc is also binary
1837211;1532290133;asciilifeform;apologies to all who broke teeth on this.
1837212;1532290153;asciilifeform;phf: ty, i'ma fix
1837213;1532290155;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform just fucking resign, what, you're gonna bold an extra steam valve mechanism on everyone's process now ?
1837214;1532290162;mircea_popescu;wtf is wrong with you. some things aren't worth fixing.
1837215;1532290184;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if it re-sign, this creates ~more~ work for people, nao they have to verify that it is sig for same thing.
1837216;1532290204;mircea_popescu;sane people just ignored your previous patches ; rest should get sane.
1837217;1532290208;asciilifeform;though to be fair i'ma have to regrind all of these when we switch to modernized v.
1837218;1532290216;mircea_popescu;so no. if you sign it properly for the first time, it is signed properly for the first time.
1837219;1532290277;ben_vulpes;lobbes: you have the thing running in a repl, right?
1837220;1532290316;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: observe, phf is the only one with a trooly , properly strict vtron, rejects non-uuencoded sigs.
1837221;1532290332;asciilifeform;hence why i only ever get this report from him.
1837222;1532290335;ben_vulpes;i don't even want to think about the code, compile, run loop outside of the emacs toiletron
1837223;1532290370;ben_vulpes;there is always "evil mode" if you don't want to spend a month programming your own chords up front trolololol
1837224;1532290371;asciilifeform;( all of the older vtrons, mine, mod6's , pass the .sig straight to gpg, which doesn't care whether uuencoded )
1837225;1532290448;mircea_popescu;i was about to say, it's about damn time we start taking http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779522 a whole lot more seriously.
1837226;1532290448;a111;Logged on 2018-02-02 16:23 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die.
1837227;1532290456;asciilifeform;aha !
1837228;1532290459;asciilifeform;i dun disagree.
1837229;1532290471;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform also notice that jurov's thing was very strict for a long time, and you threw a hissy fit every time! nomoar of that, either!
1837230;1532290509;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: problem turned out to be in email sending end . he 'fixed' by emplacing a www file uploader thing, which i've used ever since.
1837231;1532290548;asciilifeform;to this day i have not found how to send email ( from either squirrel or heathen emailtron ) that doesn't mutilate line endings.
1837232;1532290601;mircea_popescu;in other probably good news, there's hope there's gonna be a gpr eulora server next week. inconceivably enough the whole thing can apparently be beaten into obedience.
1837233;1532290611;asciilifeform;oh neato
1837234;1532290621;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is on ave1's gnat ? or your vintage 4.4
1837235;1532290622;*;diana_coman will party after that
1837236;1532290631;diana_coman;asciilifeform, on ave1's gnat
1837237;1532290635;asciilifeform;pretty neat
1837238;1532290639;asciilifeform;builds c deps & all ?
1837239;1532290669;mircea_popescu;mostly.
1837240;1532290674;diana_coman;asciilifeform, there aren't many deps really (and we would like to have even fewer, working on that); it's zlib, curl, libmysqlclient, cal3d and cs
1837241;1532290679;diana_coman;cs is the ugliest of them all
1837242;1532290700;asciilifeform;i recall, diana_coman posted re subj, 100+MB 3d lib liquishit
1837243;1532290702;mircea_popescu;curl prolly also getting ablated, but a thing at a time.
1837244;1532290835;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks << ty phf
1837245;1532290898;*;asciilifeform adds 'must uuencode' to own sign process , nomoar of this horror
1837246;1532290951;mod6;are you going to post your new ascii-armored sig to the ML?
1837247;1532291011;asciilifeform;mod6: it is already at http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/seal/asciilifeform ; if you'd like it on ml, say, i'll post
1837248;1532291075;asciilifeform;currently i expect the great regrind of errything, is coming soon.
1837249;1532291085;mod6;weird, i must have grabbed the wrong one from btcbase, was still binary
1837250;1532291088;*;mod6 tries again
1837251;1532291107;asciilifeform;know what, it is
1837252;1532291108;asciilifeform;ok 1s
1837253;1532291112;mod6;yeah, that's binary
1837254;1532291201;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in sad news of hardware, i had to power down a motherboard that had been going for a long, LONG time. and then... it wouldn't come back up.
1837255;1532291224;mircea_popescu;would ~not even post!~. i dug up through the piles of forgotten disused shit until i found a speaker thingee. it had no beeps to make.
1837256;1532291246;mod6;:[
1837257;1532291263;mircea_popescu;and yet... the led light was on... the fans spun... but the video dead as dead can be. it wouldn't initialize the numlock light, even!
1837258;1532291298;mircea_popescu;so i figure, who knows, maybe the cmos battery died, right ? it can happen, i suppose. went for the spare, but... no improvement.
1837259;1532291330;mircea_popescu;moreover, god's own voltmeter revealed that the ~spare~ was as dead as a plain quarter ; whereas the item in the mobo originally was quite rhubarby.
1837260;1532291356;mircea_popescu;so i look for busted caps, but strangely enough... there's no busted caps. AT ALL.
1837261;1532291362;asciilifeform;mod6: hm, interestingly, i uploaded with jurov's widget, apparently silent fail
1837262;1532291391;mircea_popescu;"maybe busted invisibly ?" when LO!! it's one of those idiotic amd boards that do not do diag, and if hardware config changed it locks. gotta short the RCTL pins to get it to look in its belly!
1837263;1532291399;mircea_popescu;mobo fixed! yay!
1837264;1532291425;mod6;mircea_popescu: nice!
1837265;1532291457;mircea_popescu;ikr! was getting pretty despondent.
1837266;1532291462;mod6;asciilifeform: hmm, alright, for now just wot paste it to me and I'll update the foundation website.
1837267;1532291464;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: interesting. tho 1 nitpick -- voltmeter quite useless for distinguishing dead bios battery, erry 3v lithium cell i've ever thrown out, measured to ~3v ( just drops to 0 if you put a load on it )
1837268;1532291486;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform "god's own voltmeter", here, denotes the glossa aka tongue.
1837269;1532291489;asciilifeform;mod6: it seems to reject my clearsigned readme ( which verifies locally, i've nfi )
1837270;1532291538;diana_coman;logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-21.log.html#t18:54:49 -> for future reference: this required cflags set because it turned out that configure failed to look in the correct place for the .h file; gentoo's own gcc used "--with-system-zlib" and got away with it; ave1's gcc did not
1837271;1532291542;mod6;yeah, happens to me quite a bit too.
1837272;1532291593;asciilifeform;mod6: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/aggressive.tar.gz << and if anybody wants to tell me what i'm doing wrong.
1837273;1532291599;asciilifeform;^ all 3 files.
1837274;1532291610;mod6;Thanks, Sir.
1837275;1532291612;*;mod6 gets
1837276;1532291637;diana_coman;ugh, wrong link, should be:  http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-16#1834909
1837277;1532291637;a111;Logged on 2018-07-16 15:23 diana_coman: basically I have zlib installed and I even checked: it IS in /lib but ./configure doesn't consider it fine
1837278;1532291638;asciilifeform;jurov's thing gets me a 'Signature verification on clearsigned text failed, discarding. Review the message in your sent mail folder for wordwrap or similar mutilations of clearsigned text' despite the fact that i used the www front end ( therealbitcoin.org/mailman/post/btc-dev ) and attached all 3 as attachment
1837279;1532291665;mod6;that tarball sha512 is: 7e83baadb930b02ec6699d757444ad4b1ebeba4c6d435f87fd3c2c49d4b24aa5fdc00c59eaab0512013cdd904aed22acd0bc5122aa20b1074cbf38a2c64ccd0e
1837280;1532291668;mod6;Can you confirm?
1837281;1532291683;asciilifeform;confirmed
1837282;1532291717;asciilifeform;^ if anyone gets eggog on verification of either sig in this file (readme's or patch's) plox to lemme know
1837283;1532291732;mod6;not that it matters, but the sig file is misnamed. i can just change the sigfile name.
1837284;1532291746;mircea_popescu;it does matter.
1837285;1532291771;asciilifeform;it matters , in particular in asciilifeform's vtron
1837286;1532291781;asciilifeform;( not covered under sig tho )
1837287;1532291795;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in a honest morning's work, https://78.media.tumblr.com/ab715c5a1922c87850848fa86630fe17/tumblr_mwjcrqoL9b1qaoeoqo2_500.gif
1837288;1532291797;mod6;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2IshZ/?raw=true
1837289;1532291835;asciilifeform;mod6: but does the readme's sig verify on your box
1837290;1532291841;asciilifeform;i dun see this in your paste
1837291;1532291854;asciilifeform;currently i'm curious re why jurov's eater barfed
1837292;1532291873;mod6;asciilifeform: yep: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kR2in/?raw=true
1837293;1532291883;asciilifeform;aite.
1837294;1532291886;asciilifeform;remains puzzler then.
1837295;1532291988;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/israel-evacuating-members-of-syrian-opposition-group-white-helmets-to-jordan-and-beyond/ << Qntra - Israel Evacuating Members Of "Syrian" Opposition Group "White Helmets" To Jordan And Beyond!
1837296;1532292026;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837260 << also relatedly, i've had busted caps where the damage was only visible through magnifying glass , tiny little hole , magic smoke released. ( luckily not the case for mircea_popescu's box , evidently, but does happen )
1837297;1532292026;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 20:29 mircea_popescu: so i look for busted caps, but strangely enough... there's no busted caps. AT ALL.
1837298;1532292045;mircea_popescu;i believe.
1837299;1532292072;asciilifeform;they're built nominally to disgorge their guts by tearing on the cross striation on the top of the cap, but chinese cap makers dun make these very deep
1837300;1532292105;asciilifeform;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871 << oblig oldlol
1837301;1532292165;asciilifeform;^ i still have a crate of those caps. if yer an l1 , you can have some for cost of postage.
1837302;1532292197;asciilifeform;( if label is to be believed, genuine taiyo yuden a+++ )
1837303;1532292269;asciilifeform;pro tip -- when recapping, use, as i did, 2x the rated voltage of old cap, last longer.
1837304;1532292292;asciilifeform;( horiz footprint is typically same )
1837305;1532292367;asciilifeform;the tantalum filter cap on FUCKGOATS -- similarly 'margined'.
1837306;1532292605;mod6;Alright all, the TRB vtree was updated with asciilifeform's ascii-armored pgp sig.
1837307;1532292717;asciilifeform;phf: plox to replace the sad bin sig on btcbase with this one .
1837308;1532293193;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in re earlier lulzthread , 'Freescale and Motorola decided to pull out of the UWB forum in 2006 ... If one searches for XS110 chipset today then the answer at Freescale website (https://www.nxp.com) is that “Page Not Found”'
1837309;1532293209;asciilifeform;'European PULSERS project was terminated without any marketable result in 2009'
1837310;1532293210;asciilifeform;etc
1837311;1532293249;deedbot;http://danielpbarron.com/2018/a-true-church-at-porcfest-in-review/ << Daniel P. Barron - A True Church at PorcFest, in Review
1837312;1532293621;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: 'He’s heard of the Republic, hasn’t gotten around to registering a key yet. Even brought his gentoo laptop to my site this year to pick my brain. I complimented him on having GCC < 5. Thing even had Stanislav’s crapolade mask file! ' << ha.
1837313;1532293656;asciilifeform;wouldn't surprise me if it is being passed around, contextless, in heathendom, as 'make a gentoo sans systemd' pill.
1837314;1532297358;phf;asciilifeform: will do, my thing detects, but it still lets it through issuing a warning
1837315;1532297389;asciilifeform;phf: new one oughta produce no warnings
1837316;1532302357;asciilifeform;in other noose, timecube lives?! >> https://tienzengong.wordpress.com
1837317;1532302379;asciilifeform;( bonus : found this wtf via... google ad )
1837318;1532304227;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform apparently was around 3+years ago0 also.
1837319;1532304330;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: physics crackpots often have heroic persistence. and long life. evidently good for health...
1837320;1532304394;mircea_popescu;evidently.
1837321;1532304502;mircea_popescu;"That was also my first interaction with a woman named Rachel, and we’ll get back to her later! Lot’s to cover here." bwahahaha i'm all ears
1837322;1532305147;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: one of the things that never ceases to fascinate me re physics crackpots, is how rarely they grasp the sheer 'unreasonable effectiveness' of making ~political~ , rather than simply technical, cuts . ( observe, i dun need to read , much less attempt to individually refute, errything the strings people shit out -- for the same reason i dun need to read gavin's code . )
1837323;1532305220;asciilifeform;!#s swanson debates
1837324;1532305220;a111;3 results for "swanson debates", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=swanson%20debates
1837325;1532305224;asciilifeform;^ see also
1837326;1532305377;asciilifeform;(for expert entomologists only!) https://archive.fo/Nnvbl << choice turd, by associate of the infamous adelberger, re weber ( who was anathemized and 'unhappened' ) , even includes hair-raising passage re how 'generous and accepting the physics community was , to keep publishing him'
1837327;1532305424;asciilifeform;'Eric Adelberger, one if the leaders of the group, “found Weber’s experiment to be completely unconvincing and realized that with a modest effort we could test his claim” (private communication).'
1837328;1532305435;asciilifeform;( does this remind you of anything... )
1837329;1532305559;asciilifeform;!#s eotvos
1837330;1532305560;a111;30 results for "eotvos", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=eotvos
1837331;1532305563;asciilifeform;^ see also.
1837332;1532306532;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform very true. kinda why we;re even here, "helpless as blind kittens" very much a thing in "technical" cucks.
1837333;1532306607;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: time passes, the coat of chrome , stolen from the respectables of the past, on the cuckitude, wears thinner , erry time i read something by these people, amazed at sheer wtf
1837334;1532306717;asciilifeform;( speaking here of the drowning-water suppliers , i.e. the adelbergers, rather than the blind kittens )
1837335;1532306814;asciilifeform;how did it go, 'the master won't give you the tools with which to demolish his house', etc
1837336;1532307125;mircea_popescu;was re <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: one of the things that never ceases to fascinate me re physics crackpots, is how rarely they grasp the sheer 'unreasonable effectiveness' of making ~political~ , rather than simply technical, cuts
1837337;1532307147;asciilifeform;aa
1837338;1532307340;mircea_popescu;anyway, as to the substantive matter, it's pretty well established by now that gravity, if indeed mediated, is not mediated by something that readily assumes a wave form.
1837339;1532307394;mircea_popescu;light, by comparison, is indeed mediated, and by something that somewhat readily does assume wave form (take the overlapping-mosquito-nets-over-sun experiment to trivially see this). \
1837340;1532307452;mircea_popescu;the one remaining fundamental (magnetism) is mediated by something so fucking ready to take wave frorm it was in fact discussed as a wave from the get go, and supported the early understanding of the item that later turned out to be a fundamental manifestation of interaction mediators (teh wave).
1837341;1532307464;mircea_popescu;hence all the iron filings "experiments".
1837342;1532307690;mircea_popescu;http://archive.is/VPdlH#selection-183.0-183.292 << pretty lulzy earlier stuff from the same tienzengong thing. "how ?!" well how the fuck fucking how, doh. all of pantsuit's in there, neh.
1837343;1532307779;mircea_popescu;"Second, now theory develops into a FAMILY theories. When one member of the family is killed, the survival members will quickly mutate to accommodate the killing data, such as M-string theory, SUSY, multiverse and the inflation scenarios. That is, the Popperianism is now totally USELESS."
1837344;1532307792;mircea_popescu;this is not even a weak observation.
1837345;1532307921;mircea_popescu;http://www.chineselanguageforums.com/small-story/tienzen-s-family-t151.html << for the curious. fellow is the adult in 1st pic.
1837346;1532307935;asciilifeform;lulzily enuff, found $subj during dig for whether anybody ever built a uwb antenna for hf ( 0-30MHz ). ( spoiler : nobody, publicly, as It Would Be Wrong (tm)(r) per hitler decree )
1837347;1532308007;mircea_popescu;ah, all the lulzy polarization arrays they've been doing ?
1837348;1532308020;mircea_popescu;you know it's like, 5th installment iirc just got brought up a few years ago
1837349;1532308056;asciilifeform;usg phased array radar ? they're uwb, yes, but for >10GHz
1837350;1532308089;mircea_popescu;i mean, the "gravity wave" folk keep doing these large arrays to "observe" whatever.
1837351;1532308092;asciilifeform;afaik the only inca empire that built one for hf was su, and it fell victim to chernobyl incident ( ruin is still there )
1837352;1532308093;asciilifeform;aa
1837353;1532308177;mircea_popescu;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BICEP_and_Keck_Array << here we go
1837354;1532308211;mircea_popescu;"BICEP3 consists of a single telescope with the same 2560 detectors (observing at 95 GHz) as the five-telescope Keck array, but a 68 cm aperture [...]  began collecting data on 15 May 2016."
1837355;1532308226;asciilifeform;not clear to me how these are meant to work on earth surface -- ionosphere randomly repolarizes
1837356;1532308288;asciilifeform;( i suppose they work a+++ for the intended purpose -- printolade vacuum , dissertation mint )
1837357;1532308316;mircea_popescu;"south pole". it's magical in that they can "eliminate that by models"
1837358;1532308321;asciilifeform;ahahahaha
1837359;1532308323;mircea_popescu;exactly as you say : great way to feed a fambly.
1837360;1532308335;mircea_popescu;hey, it works well for the "earth sciences" fucks.
1837361;1532308377;asciilifeform;( the ionosphere thing, btw, isn't exactly nsa seekrit, even the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-15#1825757 folx know it )
1837362;1532308377;a111;Logged on 2018-06-15 16:47 asciilifeform surveyed what remains of shortwave , it's mostly empty, and what remains is largely these derps, 'texas can you hear me' 'this is utah, we can hear you' etc etc
1837363;1532308440;asciilifeform;iirc subj is even touched in the ceremonial 'exam' usg makes'em take to buy 'license' (to spew rubbish into designated leprosoriae bands )
1837364;1532308517;mircea_popescu;il patende di botana!
1837365;1532308521;mircea_popescu;meh
1837366;1532308524;mircea_popescu;il patente di botana!
1837367;1532308546;asciilifeform;wassat
1837368;1532308572;asciilifeform;lemme guess, mussolinic version of subj ?
1837369;1532308588;mircea_popescu;eh, line from obscure movie ; unfaithful wive explains "how it happened", "i was going to get my license [meaning, driving license]" and husband asks "the whore patent ?"
1837370;1532308603;asciilifeform;ha
1837371;1532308639;mircea_popescu;sicilian dialect. putana, whore
1837372;1532308646;*;asciilifeform guessed
1837373;1532308691;asciilifeform;tho there's a lulzy false cognate in modern ru, ботан ( orig short 'botanist' ) but in effect learned fool, 'dweeb'
1837374;1532308743;mircea_popescu;in ro "botanista" (always a girl) denotes the cheap whore that sucks you off in the bushes. (yes, whoredom is stratified, doh.)
1837375;1532308766;mircea_popescu;it's amusingly cognatish, because russian botan, and also "bot" (muzzle) directly referencing the activity, and then of course, botanics.
1837376;1532308772;mircea_popescu;it's not even fucking clear which pathway it took.
1837377;1532308779;asciilifeform;of course stratified. just as errybody has 'medic', 'nurse', 'surgeon', 'pharmacist', for various aspects of medical trade, wai not whores
1837378;1532308806;mircea_popescu;just about, actually.
1837379;1532308910;asciilifeform;rounding off the uwb thread, for the l0gz : the antennae are the only nontrivial part. given as you do not actually need the sub-nanosecond pulses that are the subj of the 9000 dissertations littering the net, if you dun intend to kowtow to the 'fcc uwb regulatory' crapola.
1837380;1532308963;mircea_popescu;probably very thin silver is the way to go ?
1837381;1532309001;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tricky bit is shape, rather than material ( and for quarter-wave , you need a 2-3 metre on the wide end thing )
1837382;1532309021;mircea_popescu;hm
1837383;1532309056;asciilifeform;https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1owCvKpXXXXXmXVXXq6xXFXXX1/Antrad-10-directional-UWB-antenna-6-8.jpg << 6GHz item, pocket-sized. not so simple to scale up, 2x2metre pcb is not off the shelf item )
1837384;1532309093;asciilifeform;the useful lit, turns out, is 1910s stuff, from age of 'spark gap'.
1837385;1532309170;mircea_popescu;heh
1837386;1532309171;asciilifeform;1 interesting aspect is that the 'correctness' of the antenna dun matter nearly so much as it does in conventional 'periodic' radio -- for so long as the 2 ends of the rx-tx have similar ones
1837387;1532309190;asciilifeform;could almost say it is 'cipher key', of sorts
1837388;1532309309;mircea_popescu;prolly best move then is to identify corresponding standard item.
1837389;1532309316;mircea_popescu;"transmission rod", w/e.
1837390;1532309330;asciilifeform;quite interesting, imho, problem , in that virtually errything written since 1910s is ~entirely inapplicable ( as it concerns tuned/narrowband systems )
1837391;1532309370;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's the lulzy part, the 'standard items' pretty much guaranteed not to work, they're built to be used in resonant (single-freq, or at least quite narrow band) system
1837392;1532309396;mircea_popescu;nono. i mean, standard item used in some other application that works for this one.
1837393;1532309400;asciilifeform;aaa
1837394;1532309402;asciilifeform;yes
1837395;1532309413;mircea_popescu;"so and so rebar"
1837396;1532309418;mircea_popescu;"so and so copper fitting"
1837397;1532309461;asciilifeform;tho conceivably a correct triangle of ordinary hf antenna wire, worx .
1837398;1532309547;asciilifeform;( the 1910s item, was approx kite-shaped )
1837399;1532309588;asciilifeform;generally you dun need anyffing nearly as solid as rebar, unless yer pumping 10s of kW into the thing
1837400;1532309626;mircea_popescu;cheap and easily disguised.
1837401;1532309645;asciilifeform;thin wires ditto
1837402;1532309650;mircea_popescu;true.
1837403;1532309658;asciilifeform;( plenty of hf antennae in orcistans masquerade as clotheslines )
1837404;1532310074;asciilifeform;lulzily, found usg's : https://archive.fo/JRjdJ << they ripped their scheme directly from the planar variant in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837192
1837405;1532310074;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 19:21 asciilifeform: oh almost forgot, for thread-completeness : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837154 << >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/astanin_kostylev.djvu << for the serious aficionado.
1837406;1532310102;mircea_popescu;the word is "rediscovered".
1837407;1532310130;asciilifeform;the height of the plastic insulators suggests that they're throwing a coupla kV across it ( for 5-10kW of output )
1837408;1532310179;asciilifeform;hilarious little bit of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-17#1835417
1837409;1532310179;a111;Logged on 2018-07-17 02:42 asciilifeform: 'they cloink a coupla with the sledgehammer so as to break down the find into shards the size they can fit in a pocket, after which they stick it on their oxcart'
1837410;1532310213;asciilifeform;nobody bothered to sit down and try and derive, etc, they evidently went 'let's crib from ancient su lore', without skipping a beat
1837411;1532322307;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in markov chainlulz, "About me
1837412;1532322308;mircea_popescu;We are the Pinay Tigresses which means that we are all pure Filipinas and are experienced Dommes living in Manila. We are into D/s not bs so we expect, no DEMAND, respect."
1837413;1532341100;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837147 <-- gah, sorry for the abstruseness. more explicitly: the bot goes through each line in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ro_eng_expr.txt and if it finds one for which the query is a substr of the entry, it displays the definition. not very effective, it's intended as a very simple (<100 lines of code) demo for next trilemabot patch. but imho there's room for improving it even without adding google
1837414;1532341100;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 16:52 hanbot: ah, okay. i misread as gt test run.
1837415;1532341106;spyked;translate support.
1837416;1532341213;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837150 <-- the trade-off for this property is that none of the outputs is guaranteed to be useful (let alone correct). whereas for human-curated db, answer (if found) at least makes some sense, even if not exactly what the user is looking for.
1837417;1532341213;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 16:53 mircea_popescu: spykedbot well, the google translate approach is dubious at best, but at least ~it handles all inputs~. this is an important property.
1837418;1532341248;mircea_popescu;tru.
1837419;1532341337;spyked;to pop another arbitrary example: "taie frunza la caini" is directly translated as "cuts leaves to dogs". dunno if this makes any sense to native en speakers, but on the other hand "lazes about" or "is a neet" is immediately understood, especially in context.
1837420;1532341362;spyked;!S frunza la caini
1837421;1532341370;spyked;!S ro-en frunza la caini
1837422;1532341370;spykedbot;No entries found for frunza la caini.
1837423;1532341400;spyked;meh. yeah, spykedbot dict not very useful atm.
1837424;1532341437;spyked;!S frunza la ciini
1837425;1532341443;spyked;!S ro-en frunza la ciini
1837426;1532341443;spykedbot;a taia frunza la ciini, -- a sta cu miinile/ bratele incrucisate: to sit on one's hands
1837427;1532341699;spyked;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837152 <-- ohhh yeah, /me remembers the three days of ai megapiece. I'll put this in teh queue. even a simple heuristic, e.g. ranking entries by number of matching words and displaying the one with the highest score, would be better than current dumb search. seems like a good middle point between exact matching and "statistical learning".
1837428;1532341699;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 16:54 mircea_popescu: nevertheless, fwih lisp is exactly ideal for this sort of tokenize-and-replace job. cuz ai and everything right ?
1837429;1532341749;mircea_popescu;spyked the "is a neet" thing suggests some merging with http://trilema.com/republican-thesaurus/
1837430;1532341915;spyked;word. some republican terms/exprs oughta make perfect translations.
1837431;1532353416;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-23#1837426 << aha, thing uses pre-natoization orthography ( not asciilifeform's doing, it is as i found it , as chronicled in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2211 and in l0gz )
1837432;1532353416;a111;Logged on 2018-07-23 10:24 spykedbot: a taia frunza la ciini, -- a sta cu miinile/ bratele incrucisate: to sit on one's hands
1837433;1532354878;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathen lulz, 158.69.54.79:8333 /therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/ (70001) << wtf ?
1837434;1532354889;diana_coman;eulora server is happily compiling on proto-cuntoo with ave1's gnat+gcc; all tests passed so far, LOC greatly reduced too, loads of shit cleaned away and discarded; we are looking forward to move it to production, so any eta for cuntoo?
1837435;1532354890;asciilifeform;( i'ma guess pete_dushenski )
1837436;1532354898;asciilifeform;diana_coman: oh hey neato
1837437;1532354937;asciilifeform;diana_coman: iirc all that remains for trinque to do re cuntoo is to integrate ave1's gnat into portage; and properly mirror the tarballs
1837438;1532354945;asciilifeform;but lessee what trinque says.
1837439;1532354965;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yep, will wait to see what trinque says
1837440;1532355013;*;diana_coman is happy but still poking at eulora server on proto-cuntoo as it's almost suspiciously...working!
1837441;1532363065;trinque;diana_coman: glad to hear your success with it. what's left on my end is to smash the gentoo profile we're using into a single dir. you can find these at /usr/portage/profile , which weighs about 20mb iirc.
1837442;1532363141;trinque;the "profile" is a giant wad of optionality about global portage state. I think the right move to make the portage-tree genesis as small as possible is to select *one* thing from the optionality, and then re-introduce options atop that as we see fit (for arm support, for example)
1837443;1532364822;diana_coman;trinque, that sounds the right approach to me
1837444;1532371830;mircea_popescu;indeed.
1837445;1532372086;mircea_popescu;in other news, s.mg is definitely issuing warrants for trinque & ave1
1837446;1532372521;mircea_popescu;aand meanwhile in chick farm news, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/D7aSZ/?raw=true
1837447;1532382388;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/bitcoin-knots-restored-as-the-default-upstream-ebuild.html << shinohai endorses prb...
1837448;1532382452;asciilifeform;( for bonus lulz : luke_jr's variant . )
1837449;1532382501;asciilifeform;!Q later tell shinohai really, prb??
1837450;1532382502;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1837451;1532382656;*;asciilifeform mildly curious what the man has to say for himself, will give him coupla days before re-rating
1837452;1532383156;BingoBoingo;Serious WTF
1837453;1532383238;asciilifeform;a+++ trololol, eh. i'm almost surprised he didn't go with the shitforks, for extra spice.
1837454;1532383334;BingoBoingo;Well, going for a hash fork would be an obvious troll
1837455;1532383376;asciilifeform;iirc Funkenstein remains the unbeaten recordsman there ( operated, at least at 1 point, a shitfork based on cribbed trb )
1837456;1532383394;BingoBoingo;Ah, the bonercoin
1837457;1532383444;asciilifeform;i fughet exactly what. iirc was something so monumentally braindamaged that nobody in his right mind would take seriously even as joke ( had, e.g. decaying coins )
1837458;1532383542;asciilifeform;then again forkologists are generally harmless idjits ( in effect give away btc for phree ) , while prb purveyors actively aid & comfort the enemy
1837459;1532383557;trinque;thanks mircea_popescu; glad to see it working out.
1837460;1532383589;mircea_popescu;teh herd of independent minds.
1837461;1532383704;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: where was that woodchipper trilema
1837462;1532383739;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/the-herd-of-independent-minds-or-has-the-avantgarde-its-own-mass-culture/ ?
1837463;1532383741;asciilifeform;ah, found http://trilema.com/2013/the-story-of-pointless-and-witless/ << subj
1837464;1532383799;mircea_popescu;a
1837465;1532383874;mircea_popescu;as mr oover pointed out, http://trilema.com/2017/zuleika-dobson-or-an-proper-love-story/#selection-2881.666-2881.724
1837466;1532384014;asciilifeform;in ru sphere great term for this type of 'independent', незалежная [Украина] , actual ukr word, but has taken on this specific flavour in erryday conv
1837467;1532384200;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1837468;1532384332;asciilifeform;will admit, the only psychiatric model that makes half a sense to asciilifeform , re subj, is 'i'ma put hand in woodchipper to spite mother, that'll show' etc
1837469;1532384377;mircea_popescu;seems suffiicent.
1837470;1532386899;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/copyrasts-pushing-for-prosecutions-over-vote-outcome/ << Qntra - Copyrasts Pushing For Prosecutions Over Vote Outcome
1837471;1532397268;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/uk-court-issues-no-sanctions-over-gross-violations-of-surveillance-law/ << Qntra - UK Court Issues No Sanctions Over Gross Violations Of Surveillance Law
1837472;1532397404;mod6;<+asciilifeform> in other lulz, http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/bitcoin-knots-restored-as-the-default-upstream-ebuild.html << shinohai endorses prb... << yeah, wtf is this all about. srsly now.
1837473;1532404615;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/cl-keccak-2-week-progress-report/ << esthlos - cl-keccak 2 Week Progress Report
1837474;1532405241;ben_vulpes;oh neato, /me looks forward to reading
1837475;1532422661;deedbot;http://danielpbarron.com/2018/do-you-know-who-i-am-now/ << Daniel P. Barron - Do you know who I am now?
1837476;1532422975;ben_vulpes;i'd dearly like to hear what arguments were so compelling as to turn you from the path of wifebeating, danielpbarron
1837477;1532423123;ben_vulpes;whttp://trilema.com/2018/in-which-a-bizarre-character-wanks-it/#selection-537.0-553.158 also
1837478;1532423529;danielpbarron;yeah i'm not a huge fan of the deleting part, but it was a point of contention among the fellowship
1837479;1532423614;ben_vulpes;"i was wrong, and the new piece lives at XXX" didn't pass muster or what
1837480;1532423617;danielpbarron;i'll have to write up the arguments made re: wife beating
1837481;1532423855;danielpbarron;i have the article marked private, maybe when i have a new one to link i'll ask about doing that. but i think their point was if you don't believe it anymore why even have it there?
1837482;1532423900;ben_vulpes;to point at your evolution as a human being over time, for one
1837483;1532423912;ben_vulpes;then, sucked. now, suck less.
1837484;1532423962;ben_vulpes;otherwise one implies timeless energy-dragon crystalline perfection of self, which is a falsehood.
1837485;1532424004;danielpbarron;i agree
1837486;1532436759;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837476 << more generally, actually : that you're so fucking private about what's doubtless a public point of concern, namely the strange case of the conversion of a member of the republic's lordship smells to me of a colossal wasted opportunity.
1837487;1532436759;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 09:02 ben_vulpes: i'd dearly like to hear what arguments were so compelling as to turn you from the path of wifebeating, danielpbarron
1837488;1532436791;mircea_popescu;"i am the guy who was going to go to the republica oriental but then went to rural oklahoma instead and 2018 is the year i explained nothing about this on my blog".
1837489;1532436828;mircea_popescu;the puritan low-volume-comms thing is generally a losing strategy, both socially and personally, but ESPECIALLY so here.
1837490;1532437427;mircea_popescu;user_ dude stop fucking around with that connection
1837491;1532437429;mircea_popescu;!!up user_
1837492;1532437430;deedbot;user_ voiced for 30 minutes.
1837493;1532437435;mircea_popescu;who the fuck are you anyway ?
1837494;1532439226;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837472 << fwiw d00d updated his article; tho i admit i'm still puzzled
1837495;1532439226;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 01:56 mod6: <+asciilifeform> in other lulz, http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/bitcoin-knots-restored-as-the-default-upstream-ebuild.html << shinohai endorses prb... << yeah, wtf is this all about. srsly now.
1837496;1532439540;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837479 << fwiw i've never deleted on my www ( tho i do have several articles marked 'this is obsolete, see $neweritem' )
1837497;1532439540;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 09:13 ben_vulpes: "i was wrong, and the new piece lives at XXX" didn't pass muster or what
1837498;1532440086;mod6;asciilifeform: ah
1837499;1532441411;mircea_popescu;me either.
1837500;1532441448;mircea_popescu;why the fuck would i. strikes me a lot like "breaking up". who the fuck does that, what, i'm monogamous now ?!
1837501;1532441519;asciilifeform;'the moving finger writes, and having writ...' or how did it go.
1837502;1532444635;mod6;asciilifeform: mats is a pizarro customer, he has paid through july.  however, we need to consider letting him stay a customer since:
1837503;1532444640;mod6;!!reputation mats
1837504;1532444642;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JuTUX/?raw=true
1837505;1532444680;mircea_popescu;fuck me, i'm ruining your shit aren't i.
1837506;1532444703;*;mircea_popescu will unrate, i suspect the point is made and i really don't give that much of a shit.
1837507;1532444711;mircea_popescu;!!unrate mats
1837508;1532444714;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/32cp5/?raw=true
1837509;1532444733;asciilifeform;mats is not only pizarro customer , but also collecting phuctor fodder ( btw mats , lemme know when ready , it can go in same day )
1837510;1532444796;mircea_popescu;you talked me out of it.
1837511;1532444840;mod6;np mircea_popescu, just trying to make sure we're keeping pizarro's house clean.  cheers
1837512;1532444927;asciilifeform;mod6: relatedly , douchebag's subscription ( purchased by mircea_popescu ) also expires end of month iirc
1837513;1532444940;mircea_popescu;im not renewing.
1837514;1532444943;asciilifeform;aite
1837515;1532444954;mod6;ok thanks, mircea_popescu. noted.
1837516;1532444974;mircea_popescu;i might get this inept slut a blog though... what'd pizarro think about giving my stupid whores slots on the mp-wp megaserver ?
1837517;1532444984;asciilifeform;then , BingoBoingo : plox to power down rk 'A' and insert its stick into dulap , for reimaging, when subscr expires
1837518;1532445040;asciilifeform;this box will become arm64 cuntoo pilot.
1837519;1532445083;mircea_popescu;i mean, "my computer was updating" level of windowsity, 0 expectation of any kind of clean process.
1837520;1532445116;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if your pet can operate a mp-wp, can use, why not
1837521;1532445128;mod6;mircea_popescu: I don't see any problem with it as long as it's all paid up and we can you or them directly for it.
1837522;1532445128;mircea_popescu;cuz i thought the idea was that there's some security concerns.
1837523;1532445146;mod6;Your pets, your mess :]
1837524;1532445167;mircea_popescu;i don't suspect she'd be in the slightest malicious ; but i also don't expect she ever controlled a box. for all i know it's an open relay.
1837525;1532445198;asciilifeform;very limited damage can be done by sheer ineptitude from a mp-wp , afaik .
1837526;1532445221;mircea_popescu;well... afaik also. but it's your box, so it's your call. shall we find out ?
1837527;1532445226;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/how-things-have-changed/ << Trilema - How things have changed!
1837528;1532445231;mircea_popescu;^ big deal, btw.
1837529;1532445282;asciilifeform;'Okay, thanks for your honesty U+1F602' << lol!!
1837530;1532445305;asciilifeform;'Unicode Character 'FACE WITH TEARS OF JOY' (U+1F602)' ftr.
1837531;1532445308;mircea_popescu;motherfuckers managed to "make the LOL" have tears in eyes.
1837532;1532445317;asciilifeform;nuts.
1837533;1532445319;mod6;sad
1837534;1532445319;mircea_popescu;because it's totally lwtime.
1837535;1532445410;mircea_popescu;"oh but mp, accurate glyph for lol would have to include sound" "so ?" "so we can't do that" "you can't do any of the other shits you're doing either..." "but a limit must be drawn!" "no, motherfucker. a limit must be drawn alphabet existed already. you're the no limits may be drawn crowd. fucking hang by your own petard, lol is a face emitting sound as glyph!"
1837536;1532445558;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: controlled techno-regress (e.g. in this case, from alphabets to hieroglyphs) is a perennial obsession among the jwz folx , the same people want to mandate earth latrines instead of watercloset, BingoBoingo's butane cycle fridge , etc. notion being, i suspect, 'wind back the clock to when we mattered'
1837537;1532445582;mircea_popescu;or go back up their stupid mother's cunts, why not.
1837538;1532445711;asciilifeform;that's pretty much it.
1837539;1532447139;asciilifeform;meanwhile in vintage flondors, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs0jXa9u-a0
1837540;1532447246;asciilifeform;^ 1st time i've seen historic firing squad clip ~with scrolling credits~
1837541;1532447551;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i read the 'how things have changed' piece and from the opening 'Six years ago that was even correct ; but meanwhile consider' expected a 'seawater uranium mining nao +ev' but turns out nope ; moar hieroglyphic sluts ? or what am i missing
1837542;1532447730;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837517 << ack
1837543;1532447730;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 15:09 asciilifeform: then , BingoBoingo : plox to power down rk 'A' and insert its stick into dulap , for reimaging, when subscr expires
1837544;1532447761;asciilifeform;ty BingoBoingo . mod6 plox to confirm exact time.
1837545;1532447947;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform consider eg that pizarro doesn't need to undertake the (significant, and unbounded) cost of writing "code of conduct" or "terms of service" or any of the other nonsense. things have changed. nude bitcoin is dangerous in the sense discussed in 2012, but bitcoin-as-currency-of-the-republic eminently usable today.
1837546;1532448009;asciilifeform;aa this yes
1837547;1532448018;mircea_popescu;moreover, these are different items. the chick with the emoji and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837516 are not the same. i don't expect you to care about the difference, but i do. to me it's meaningful, and in the end that's all it takes, yes ? exactly mirror case of the mats discussion above.
1837548;1532448018;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 15:09 mircea_popescu: i might get this inept slut a blog though... what'd pizarro think about giving my stupid whores slots on the mp-wp megaserver ?
1837549;1532448032;asciilifeform;i was speaking of the 'the offensively stupid poor. The costs of the strategic mistake of dealing with them' item
1837550;1532448054;asciilifeform;aa
1837551;1532448085;mircea_popescu;if i can select one usable nude floorwasher in 250k imperial "accounts", then probably so could you* (*conceivably, you don't want nude floorwashers, but ~necessarily~ it doesn't matter what you want, the foregoing applies)
1837552;1532448119;mircea_popescu;but whether you can or you can't, you don'tr know until you try.
1837553;1532448134;asciilifeform;theoretically yes. and hey, the nigerians took it to a high art in the '90s.
1837554;1532448144;mircea_popescu;as the cattle goes browsing on the pasture, so does the white butterfly go looking for cabages.
1837555;1532448178;mircea_popescu;less than 1% of 1% of the material of interest to the ox is of interest to pieris rapae ; but the field provides for all.
1837556;1532448217;asciilifeform;elementarily , the critters for whom the field does not today provide , are nowhere to be seen.
1837557;1532448220;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the nigerians were looking for a stupid. there's a fundamental difference between self-limiting and self-expanding things ; and i propose the nigerians aren't a relevant model at all.
1837558;1532448232;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform but not for lack of trying!
1837559;1532448289;mircea_popescu;if i take http://trilema.com/2018/it-came-out/ cutie for a sea trip and it has the misfortune of coming to life 500 miles out, it'll still fly over the ocean looking. and so must you, because until you're dead you don't know you're dying.
1837560;1532448344;asciilifeform;right
1837561;1532448352;asciilifeform;i'ma have to take mircea_popescu's word for it re the diff b/w the 2 chix
1837562;1532448357;asciilifeform;( to asciilifeform it is opaque )
1837563;1532448472;asciilifeform;( and iirc we already have a thread in the l0gz where mircea_popescu 'they could! be trained to do technical works but i would not waste prime chix on soul-rotting butugychag' , so no particular reason to review unless mircea_popescu feels like )
1837564;1532448562;mircea_popescu;link ?
1837565;1532448571;asciilifeform;hmm
1837566;1532448715;mod6;<+asciilifeform> ty BingoBoingo . mod6 plox to confirm exact time. << according to the notes about the accounts that I received last night from ben_vulpes, his rockchip is rented through August 19th.
1837567;1532448722;asciilifeform;ah ty mod6
1837568;1532448749;mod6;ben_vulpes: plz confirm ^
1837569;1532448800;mod6;anyway, I believe you can re-image starting: 2018.08.20 00:00:00
1837570;1532448858;mircea_popescu;you know, far be it from me to hassle you folk about your fine organisation ; but it occurs to me, on the butress of experience, that you're running a very wasteful process in that every.single.god.damned.thing produces an interrupt. there should be some queues and some batching, you can't ping someone every.single.time.anything.occurs. yes ?
1837571;1532448915;mircea_popescu;"one single interrupt is worth 15 minutes of labour" or how did that tale go.
1837572;1532448916;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: at current rate of interrupts, 2-3/month . but yes, will have to be optimized.
1837573;1532448935;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i saw two the past hour and i recall at leasta coupla yest which is why i said.
1837574;1532448949;mod6;agree, and duly noted.
1837575;1532448993;mod6;yeah, forgive me.  i'm just getting up to speed on all of the particularities of what is going on here.  I only ask ben to confirm because alf said earlier that it expired at the end of the month.
1837576;1532449023;mod6;Which, conflicts with the notes.  And to your point, mircea_popescu, we need to get better at comms & note sharing.
1837577;1532449077;mircea_popescu;possibly have a file with all the stuff you want to send people (because this process of -- think of it -- do something about it! has a lot of merit to it). but if you just >> alf.txt and then once a day or once a week or w/e >> gpg -aer alf and >> p.bvulpes.com then you get it all.
1837578;1532449120;mircea_popescu;also has the advantage that it puts the patters right under your eyes, so to speak. you get organisational audit for free with it.
1837579;1532449145;mircea_popescu;patterns*
1837580;1532449422;mod6;*nod*. The file I've got in front of me is a good start to such a reoccring information passing.  It's genereated dozens of questions from me; once I have them answered, I'll send it around.  This will also help BB get up to speed on what is what early.
1837581;1532449455;mod6;I appreciate the advise here.  The management end here has to get better.
1837582;1532449473;mircea_popescu;practice makes purrfect.
1837583;1532449511;mircea_popescu;that's the overawing important point -- the reason we are so damned good today has a lot to do with what lispers call repl and biologists call genetics. if you can get a recurring loop going you'll probably win.
1837584;1532449547;mircea_popescu;"use the log" doesn't just mean, read here. use it, as the tool it is, in the sense of permit referentiality.
1837585;1532449812;*;asciilifeform exhausted the current allotment of cycles to dredge up the $thread , perhaps will turn up later when i remember the correct hooks
1837586;1532449897;asciilifeform;it went approx like this, iirc some time in 2016 :   asciilifeform : 'if quality slavegurlz can be trained to do anything , mircea_popescu couldja spare 1 or 2 for ada battallion ' mircea_popescu : 'hell no, why would i waste any on such a thing; what next, i will ask asciilifeform to do field work detail in their place ? '
1837587;1532449915;asciilifeform;^ if anybody recalls this thread, plox to link
1837588;1532449977;mircea_popescu;i expect it was more along the lines of "you manage yours, i'll manage mine, tyvm."
1837589;1532449987;asciilifeform;right, i dun disagree
1837590;1532450037;mircea_popescu;but yes, if you've got a competent spy you're not going to make her a competent kbd monkey -- for approximately the same reason people don't usually eat their children. acceptable substitutes for flesh can usually be found.
1837591;1532450151;asciilifeform;that being said, history knows cases where officer in short-handed unit picked up rifle and engaged .
1837592;1532450209;mircea_popescu;hence eg today's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837516
1837593;1532450209;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 15:09 mircea_popescu: i might get this inept slut a blog though... what'd pizarro think about giving my stupid whores slots on the mp-wp megaserver ?
1837594;1532450214;asciilifeform;aha
1837595;1532450237;mircea_popescu;in fairness, that's more in the vein of "well... i got this here chunk, but hard to tell what it actually is, bring me a selection of hammers to hit it with see if it sings."
1837596;1532450289;asciilifeform;oblig su joak : division commander notices that maxim gun emplacement has fallen silent. he walks over , 'comrade gunner, why is your maxim silent' gunner : 'comrade lieutenant, i've run through my belt' lieutenant : 'BUT YOUR ARE A COMMUNIST!' ... the maxim promptly begins to chatter again !
1837597;1532450304;asciilifeform;*YOU
1837598;1532450314;mircea_popescu;lol
1837599;1532450330;asciilifeform;( or see also mircea_popescu's seven dwarves story, similar. )
1837600;1532450445;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837590 << and ftr, "usually" is the right strength there. plenty of children have made in the past, and no doubt will make in the future, most delicious stu.
1837601;1532450445;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 16:33 mircea_popescu: but yes, if you've got a competent spy you're not going to make her a competent kbd monkey -- for approximately the same reason people don't usually eat their children. acceptable substitutes for flesh can usually be found.
1837602;1532452086;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/remote-command-execution-vulnerability-found-in-sony-webcam-firmware/ << Qntra - Remote Command Execution Vulnerability Found In Sony Webcam Firmware
1837603;1532455815;lobbes;Lol. "While parsing the input measurement string, there isn't a check on the server address (-c). In this manner, any string can be placed as the server address and will be executed via system. Knowing this, an attacker can execute arbitrary commands in the position of the server address."
1837604;1532455834;lobbes;Sony "pulled a lobbes"
1837605;1532455867;asciilifeform;lol
1837606;1532457770;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/oracle-re-patches-11-year-old-solaris-hole-that-survived-first-patch/ << Qntra - Oracle Re-Patches 11 Year Old Solaris Hole That Survived FIrst Patch
1837607;1532480056;mircea_popescu;aaand in today's ancientry, "Uite-asa se scurge timpul, si Romania progreseaza, incet-incet, ca melasa, pe lungul drum al prefacerii intru devenire, a construirii unei societati a viitorului, in care omul nou sa traiasca vesnic si sa nu faca nimic cu toata vesnicia aia."
1837608;1532480063;mircea_popescu;and this is pre-bitcoin even!
1837609;1532483958;mod6;All, one thing that I didn't know that I even had to do, was publish the price at which the this months auction for pizarro took place.  It all transpired on July 10th, and the price that was used was $6800.
1837610;1532484011;mod6;This will be the price used when determining invoicing this month.  I am working with / have been working with ben to get all of these settled.
1837611;1532485352;mod6;I am hoping to get invoices for July out in the 48 hours.
1837612;1532485446;mod6;mircea_popescu, asciilifeform :  Dulap's quarterly service was finished at the end of june.  So we need to figure out if you want to pay for dulap's colocation either quarterly, or yearly.  But it does need to include July.
1837613;1532485465;mod6;No worries, just let me know what works, and we'll get a price figured out.
1837614;1532485762;mod6;mircea_popescu, diana_coman : Ben and I worked out a prorated amount for UY3 for the month of July.  It comes to a total of 19 days, which will amount to: 0.03542985
1837615;1532485814;mod6;If you decide to go-production with this machine after July, we'll then add in the new drives (when they arrive) and figure out a new price at that point.
1837616;1532485999;mircea_popescu;a right, lessee
1837617;1532486002;mircea_popescu;!!invoices
1837618;1532486030;mircea_popescu;!!receivedinvoices
1837619;1532486033;mircea_popescu;!!received-invoices
1837620;1532486038;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BHwQH/?raw=true
1837621;1532486313;mircea_popescu;mod6 go ahead an' invoice. i recall now seeing something like this b4 but no invoice either.
1837622;1532486341;mod6;For S.MG's UY3 then?
1837623;1532486352;mircea_popescu;well the july bit above.
1837624;1532486371;mod6;Yup, gotcha.  Will fire one up here in just a few moments.
1837625;1532486373;mircea_popescu;i dun recall, did you ever include the rationale, past "ben and i worked out" ?
1837626;1532486378;mircea_popescu;!!reject-invoice lobbes 2
1837627;1532486382;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TBdsE/?raw=true
1837628;1532486422;mod6;he lead me through all of the calculations.  let me dig some of it up for you.
1837629;1532486443;mircea_popescu;^ that being the "accidentally paid 2017 invoice again" item that led to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-03#1831526 and the change in counts.
1837630;1532486443;a111;Logged on 2018-07-03 16:01 mircea_popescu: so trinque could it be possible to not be possible to pay the same invoice twice cuz that's the point of invoices in the first place, they should die once paid
1837631;1532486735;mod6;So the 0.03542985 includes the price of the physical box, and a charge for rack space.  we broke this down into a daily cost, then multiplied it by 19, as we figured this out on the 12th.
1837632;1532486808;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 0.03542985/19*30
1837633;1532486808;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 0.0559418684211
1837634;1532486828;mod6;it was like:
1837635;1532486849;mircea_popescu;this ~same item that ran me 0.475 for a whole year ?
1837636;1532486961;mod6;!Qcalc (((0.42967914/12)+0.022)/31)*19
1837637;1532486962;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.0354298485484
1837638;1532487058;mod6;mircea_popescu: um, I actually don't know what was factored in for the whole year.  my guess is that one may have had a discount for paying a whole year in advance.  where this number has a bit of a higher margin for month-to-month.
1837639;1532487068;mod6;ben_vulpes: any comment on this when you get a chance? ^
1837640;1532487161;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-3/ << esthlos - Log Reading, Week 3
1837641;1532487171;mircea_popescu;lol. aaanyways, i've no problem with the three cents, go ahead an' invoice.
1837642;1532487204;mod6;Alright, on it.
1837643;1532487337;mod6;!!invoice mircea_popescu 0.03542985 July 2018 prorated invoice for UY3
1837644;1532487341;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JKOzk/?raw=true
1837645;1532487415;mircea_popescu;!!pay-invoice mod6 1
1837646;1532487419;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/w2F1i/?raw=true
1837647;1532487427;mircea_popescu;let's see if we can get you sorted out with a whole coin :D
1837648;1532487579;mircea_popescu;"So this week's post is late." has such a ring of familiarity about it.
1837649;1532487608;mod6;!!v AC89739413698263AF8E7C738E2EB868109ED900600651DBD3E07B0C140366BC
1837650;1532487611;deedbot;Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.03542985 << July 2018 prorated invoice for UY3
1837651;1532488063;mod6;!!ledger
1837652;1532488068;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/CWdgN/?raw=true
1837653;1532488135;mircea_popescu;esthlos http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-3/#footnote_1_30 << what's that mean ?!
1837654;1532488345;mod6;anyway, sorry about that, it took me a few minutes to get the invoice processed.  not sure if it let you pay that invoice before I did the whole !!v thing.
1837655;1532488368;mircea_popescu;if i understand the mechanics correctly it'll work fine.
1837656;1532488383;mod6;ah.  didnt see it in my !!ledger.
1837657;1532488419;mircea_popescu;that's why it'll work fine. seems to me it creates a symbol when asked, but only checks once !!v'd. since i've not done that yet, it didn't matter you hadn't yet !!v'd atthye time i !!pay-i'd.
1837658;1532488450;mod6;ahh. herp.
1837659;1532488454;mod6;my bad.
1837660;1532488459;trinque;mircea_popescu: correct
1837661;1532488466;mod6;anyway, no rush.
1837662;1532488503;mod6;I'm gonna be around a bit, but we can always talk about what you wanna do with Dulap tomorrow.
1837663;1532488518;mircea_popescu;i dunno wanna do anything with it tomorrow
1837664;1532488528;mircea_popescu;oh, you mean talk tomorrow. lol. sure, dun worry about it.
1837665;1532488533;mod6;yeah, :]
1837666;1532488543;mircea_popescu;we can always talk tomorrow about what you wanna do with Dulap!
1837667;1532488551;mod6;haha, indeed.
1837668;1532488565;ben_vulpes;mod6: discount for paying for a year in advance, there are also two fuckgoats in that machine
1837669;1532488628;mircea_popescu;and more drives ?
1837670;1532488630;asciilifeform;mod6: dulap is a colo, recall, it wasn't sold
1837671;1532488647;asciilifeform;( unlike the smg units )
1837672;1532488652;mod6;oh. alright, the price that I invoiced Mr. Popescu for correct tho right (what we came up with on the ~12th)
1837673;1532488699;mod6;asciilifeform: correct. technically we should have figured out the quarterly or yearly contract at the end of june.
1837674;1532488719;*;mircea_popescu is not even going to ask what this overselling does to his insurance for the other machine :D
1837675;1532489026;mod6;heheh, this is a fair point here.
1837676;1532489037;asciilifeform;mod6: let's make this tomorrow, i'm about to fall down, gotta sleep
1837677;1532489044;mod6;np.
1837678;1532489073;mod6;last point here: if UY3 goes into production, I think we'll just buy another machine as insurance.
1837679;1532489089;mod6;Can't hurt to have that hot-spare.  I quite like the idea.
1837680;1532489120;asciilifeform;btw there is still a cold spare in the rack ( s.nsa spare )
1837681;1532489137;mod6;*nod* good to know.
1837682;1532489151;mod6;ok asciilifeform, get some sleep.  I'm about to do the same.  we can pick it up tomorrow.
1837683;1532489171;asciilifeform;asciilifeform in favour of lending it to e.g. smg , in hour of need
1837684;1532489186;mod6;sure.
1837685;1532489188;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: awesome
1837686;1532489251;*;asciilifeform bbl 
1837687;1532489255;mod6;ni ni
1837688;1532489400;ben_vulpes;in unrelated http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-15#1656658 , ben_vulpes moving to texas to whip trinque's oarsmen, re-plumb engineroom, stand watch over gauges
1837689;1532489400;a111;Logged on 2017-05-15 22:36 mircea_popescu: "Somewhat fortunately Balsamiq was too successful for that, and Giacomo was forced to hire more and more people. Balsamiq is now being built by 25 members, who service around 0.5M customers and manage 10,000 new transactions a month. All of it generating about $7M a year." << this is actually a model-run business. had nfi mp-style even exists in fiat world, but lo and behold. took 10 years to get to 7mn a year, sustainably.
1837690;1532489553;*;mircea_popescu mashed kbd apparently when pressing yes, test.sh got saved as test.sht, system couldn't magically find script anymoar, 5 minute haphazard luls ensued.
1837691;1532489570;mircea_popescu;apparently i don't even need to run it for this judgmental box to have an oppinion on my skillz.
1837692;1532489639;mod6;:D
1837693;1532489977;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-25#1837653 << recent example would be http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-18#1835763 and the few posts following .
1837694;1532489977;a111;Logged on 2018-07-25 03:08 mircea_popescu: esthlos http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-3/#footnote_1_30 << what's that mean ?!
1837695;1532489977;a111;Logged on 2018-07-18 01:07 asciilifeform: my only disagreement was re the notion that this is necessarily The Right Thing for erry proggy, as some sort of counter to 'rmsism'
1837696;1532490106;mircea_popescu;well, alf's oft peculiar assumption set isn't what i had in mind when discussing information density. but instead, two aspects : on one hand, that the amount of learned refrences is staggering even for academic discourse (the academitards cheat, by selecting a very narrow set of possible reference points and agreeing on it in advance) ; and then the more one knows, the more things unfold, exactly in the manner i end up watchi
1837697;1532490107;mircea_popescu;ng some movies twenty fucking times.
1837698;1532490420;esthlos;I see. yeah, following the references, reading the trilema articles, etc. are half the work of reading the logs. and when skipped, render the logs opaque
1837699;1532490454;mircea_popescu;and when followed, render the logs exponentially larger, because wait a fucking minute, is THAT implied the other implication of item from three days ago ?
1837700;1532490472;mircea_popescu;most (private) attempts to do what you're doing i know of died the death of the look-behead.
1837701;1532490475;mircea_popescu;behind*
1837702;1532490547;esthlos;lol please don't behead poor esthlos :)
1837703;1532490566;mircea_popescu;lol
1837704;1532490686;esthlos;keeping the summaries allowe me to track the threads of implications. i have nfi how people manage otherwise. though my rote memory sux
1837705;1532490732;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815822
1837706;1532490732;a111;Logged on 2018-05-19 23:09 mircea_popescu: "ia, not ai."
1837707;1532490735;esthlos;but not all the threads. conversations that go on for years and years? this thing is the fucking talmud
1837708;1532490783;mircea_popescu;most [important] conversations are ongoing for many years. they basically happen in this select group of complex interplay.
1837709;1532490861;mircea_popescu;you're perhaps familiar with the theory of sets to the degree the discussion of cardinal of sets in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-31#1594980
1837710;1532490861;a111;Logged on 2016-12-31 19:32 mircea_popescu: fortunately, mathematics is simple. V is the set of all sets. by convention, the first index, V0, is the empty set.
1837711;1532490911;mircea_popescu;the problem of indirection layers is directly an equivalent of this, because "what is this conversation REALLY about" permits in principle an open ended reskinning of every conversation. which is somethingt that happens all the fucking time, because we CAN discuss chess in terms of girl-on-girl on-cam action, and half the time we also do.
1837712;1532490970;esthlos;you know, I was in fiat job today, and I realized how badly I needed a global namespace for threads. no wonder no one get anything done
1837713;1532490985;mircea_popescu;which is why it's so HARD to ~correctly~ identify actual cases of utter breakage in the sense of "alf is an assumptive idiot" or "mp is millitantly ignorant" or w/e.
1837714;1532491034;mircea_popescu;hard for the not-exactly-ungifted peole in the very question, first of all. because well...
1837715;1532491219;esthlos;hmm, but to be clear, are you saying that what any person is saying on any ~single~ posting is open to interpretation? because this sounds like hermeneutical approach which lead to the protestant uprising and other bla bla
1837716;1532491241;mircea_popescu;(and by "select group" above i meant "group of threads/"ideal objects sorted in trees" more properly speaking. not groups of people. this sadly isn't at all evident from context, but i caught it on re-read. half the time though, it IS "evident" on the basis of cousins six removed)
1837717;1532491308;mircea_popescu;esthlos there's no other approach available besides interpretation. there's no some way to "read the true reading" in the manner you can ingurgitate an apple.
1837718;1532491326;mircea_popescu;protestants can uprise all they want for all the good it'll do them.
1837719;1532491434;mircea_popescu;!#s think in terms of
1837720;1532491435;a111;115 results for "think in terms of", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=think%20in%20terms%20of
1837721;1532491451;mircea_popescu;omfg only a hundred times explicitly ? wink wink drudge drudge.
1837722;1532491827;mircea_popescu;esthlos you ever read the discussion of the dragonfly's brain ?
1837723;1532491864;esthlos;but surely, a dense subset of these sets are uninteresting? there has to be some mechanism to reduce things to some polynomial blowup. or are things really just beyond our grasp?
1837724;1532491883;mircea_popescu;not dense, but very large. the problem with it is that it's not dense.
1837725;1532491900;esthlos;no, though I love watching those bastards zip around and hunt
1837726;1532491942;mircea_popescu;alright, here : http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/#selection-51.0-63.503
1837727;1532491969;mircea_popescu;the thing with that is, people obviously don't fly about the room doing 100 body lengths a second while catching bugs and jumping right out of inept frog's mouth all cool as shit.
1837728;1532492000;esthlos;if set of interesting sets is dense in set of all interpretations, how can we proceed?
1837729;1532492003;mircea_popescu;HOWEVER they do exactly the same in this field of representation. MUCH MORE so, exponentially rather than proportionally when compared to the dragonfly, people sort and select through utterly staggering piles of alternative constructs.
1837730;1532492029;esthlos;yes. didn't you just link an uncle al about this?
1837731;1532492036;mircea_popescu;esthlos the problem is that it's neither dense nor sparse. and i dunno how we can proceed. moreover, i suspect goedel says we can not proceed.
1837732;1532492063;mircea_popescu;i thought alf did.
1837733;1532492195;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-28#1491930
1837734;1532492195;a111;Logged on 2016-06-28 04:35 asciilifeform: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/create.htm << obligatory.
1837735;1532492303;esthlos;that we can assemble a semi-coherent reality is only topped by the existence of a semi-coherent reality
1837736;1532492393;mircea_popescu;rather that we manage to will a coherent approximation of reality into existence. because it's what we're doing, yes, and we need all these complex tools to keep it from becoming either self contradictory, disjointed or else derealized.
1837737;1532492437;esthlos;go
1837738;1532492447;esthlos;^^ ignore
1837739;1532492517;esthlos;not to trivialize, but are you a schopenhauer fan then? or a more broad idealist?
1837740;1532492545;mircea_popescu;im not an idealist at all.
1837741;1532492572;esthlos;ok, seems like I was overindexing on "will"
1837742;1532492647;mircea_popescu;but you do realise that "your wife" is not your wife in the sense your weight is your weight, yes ? you just want her to be -- hopefully both of you.
1837743;1532492774;esthlos;yes, my "wife" wears the white pumps https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2006/12/if_this_is_one_of_the_sexiest.html
1837744;1532492779;mircea_popescu;lol
1837745;1532492835;mircea_popescu;well, so in that sense "will". we agree on things such as "how things should be" or "this is cool" or "this sucks" w/e in the precise manner.
1837746;1532492975;esthlos;gotcha
1837747;1532493101;esthlos;aw shit it's past bedtime. night
1837748;1532493443;mircea_popescu;tada
1837749;1532543224;jurov;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837291 i don't know either, only found this barf in the log:
1837750;1532543224;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 20:37 asciilifeform: currently i'm curious re why jurov's eater barfed
1837751;1532543228;jurov;Jul 22 19:02:37 2018 (10402) Error verifying message: gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found.
1837752;1532543228;jurov;gpg: decrypt_message failed: Unknown system error
1837753;1532543333;jurov;also there was expired version of your key, but it was expired since 2016, so that shouldn't be the culprit
1837754;1532543513;asciilifeform;jurov: what do you get if you try and verify by hand with that same gpg ? ( and incidentally, which gpg is it )
1837755;1532543565;jurov;it passed
1837756;1532543576;asciilifeform;interesting
1837757;1532543608;jurov;gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.28
1837758;1532543615;asciilifeform;ugh
1837759;1532543663;jurov;well, the server is older that the fatwa aginst gpg2
1837760;1532543665;asciilifeform;also why is decrypt_message even called ? there's no encryption in the loop
1837761;1532543803;jurov;will have to check, maybe --verify calls it too
1837762;1532543968;jurov;oh it calls decrypt to compute the checksum of original unescaped text, prolly something left from the ancient spec
1837763;1532546776;asciilifeform;jurov: any gpg bug , even in the sad 2.x , is potentially very interesting. i'd like to learn what happened .
1837764;1532547931;jurov;sure. i couldn't reproduce this
1837765;1532562485;mod6;evenin'
1837766;1532563279;mod6;trinque: Question for ya regarding how jurov can make a payment for The Foundation's hosting fees at Pizarro: Is there a way that I can get an outside BTC address to give him that would go directly to my deedbot wallet?  I see that I can do `!!deposit amount`, which might work, but it could be days before a payment is made.  Is this a problem?  Thoughts?
1837767;1532563632;mod6;ben_vulpes jurov BingoBoingo : I do not believe The Bitcoin Foundation was ever invoiced for colocation services for The Foundation's one machine at Pizarro for the month of June.  And thusly, no amount was shown on the Foundation's June 2018 statement.
1837768;1532563689;mod6;The Bitcoin Foundation will make a payment for June, but I need to determine what the price point was for the month of June.  I'm going to dig through the logs to see what I can find, but if anyone can help me out in this capacity please let me know.  Thank you.
1837769;1532563769;*;BingoBoingo is indeed alive, been reading apache docs all day
1837770;1532564887;mod6;re price point for June, I can see that this wire was sent on or around June 12th: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826769
1837771;1532564887;a111;Logged on 2018-06-19 16:04 deedbot: Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.40847278 << "wire to the Pizarro DC sent 2018-06-12"
1837772;1532565022;mod6;I have pulled up BTC/USD chart of Bitstamp (no particular reason I picked this exchange) between June 1st and June 30th.  I can see that the price was roughly about $6800 per BTC on that day.  Unless anyone chimes in very soon about what the actual price point was for the month of June, is anyone opposed to me using this rate?
1837773;1532565046;mod6;*on that day, June 12th
1837774;1532567251;trinque;mod6: that is the way to do that, !!deposit
1837775;1532567283;trinque;and no, the deposit request wont expire or anything, in any amount of time that'd affect you
1837776;1532567289;trinque;(when I start expiring them, will announce)
1837777;1532567365;mod6;thanks trinque.
1837778;1532567366;trinque;but that feature is entirely intended to be used both for sending your BTC and for receiving it from others
1837779;1532567370;trinque;yw
1837780;1532567407;mod6;gotcha.
1837781;1532567941;mod6;mircea_popescu: S.NSA was paid up through June 30th, 2018 for dulap's colocation.  We can do another quarter (back dated to July 1st) that will carry S.NSA through September 30th, 2018 for a total of: 0.06251472 BTC (0.02083824 BTC/mo).  If this is agreeable, let me know, or if you have any questions.
1837782;1532567968;mod6;!Qcalc 0.02083824 * 3
1837783;1532567968;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.06251472
1837784;1532568741;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do we want quarterly or yearly or what ?
1837785;1532568969;mircea_popescu;mod6 really, don't dig through the logs worth more than what the difference is, you know.
1837786;1532569077;mod6;*nod* was just hoping to find that btc/fiat price.  I never did find it.  Roughly, I think the price was about $6800 when it would have transpired.  But I'll give others a chance to chime on this before I make a June invoice for The Foundation.
1837787;1532572398;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: let's take a 1y
1837788;1532572617;mod6;!Qcalc 0.02083824 * 12
1837789;1532572618;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.25005888
1837790;1532572674;mod6;Good with this then through June 30th of 2019? ^
1837791;1532572764;asciilifeform;loox correct
1837792;1532572798;asciilifeform;plox to invoice mircea_popescu ( he is not only chairman but also treasurer )
1837793;1532572894;mod6;Ok, will do.
1837794;1532573687;mircea_popescu;omg no discount!
1837795;1532573791;mod6;ah, fair point, i gotta figure out what the discount would be on a year-contract might be.
1837796;1532576220;mod6;Turns out that there is a mark-up, as opposed to a discount for yearly.
1837797;1532576242;asciilifeform;mod6: that makes 0 sense
1837798;1532576265;mod6;I didn't say it made sense, just that's what was done before.
1837799;1532576278;asciilifeform;mod6: let's do the sensible thing
1837800;1532576307;mod6;What do you find senseable for a discount?
1837801;1532576328;mod6;10% off?
1837802;1532576337;asciilifeform;worx
1837803;1532576365;mod6;!!Qcalc 0.25005888*.9
1837804;1532576384;mod6;!!Qcalc 0.25005888*0.9
1837805;1532576424;mod6;0.22505299 BTC sound better mircea_popescu ?
1837806;1532576491;mircea_popescu;defo!
1837807;1532576523;mod6;ok :]
1837808;1532577520;mod6;!!invoice mircea_popescu 0.22505299 S.NSA colocation (dulap) through June 2019
1837809;1532577526;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/8Mbe2/?raw=true
1837810;1532577695;mod6;!!v C590F2FA31300722665DE7C49F389D1D58CF17C4E1C1B53283E1EB4C5A3981E2
1837811;1532577698;deedbot;Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.22505299 << S.NSA colocation (dulap) through June 2019
1837812;1532585543;mircea_popescu;!!up sageprobes
1837813;1532585544;deedbot;sageprobes voiced for 30 minutes.
1837814;1532602223;spyked;!!key spyked_trvl
1837815;1532602224;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/A30E39679BBE9CA1A0882BF116D9D4EB821B72CA.asc
1837816;1532602244;spyked;!!rate spyked_trvl 1 spyked's travellin' riverside key
1837817;1532602247;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/f7ZS1/?raw=true
1837818;1532602308;spyked;^ ftr, I'll be away starting tomorrow for about a week. I'll use this key during the interval.
1837819;1532602570;spyked;in other news, trilemabot part ii will be published later today, with fresh coad ready to be scrutinized.
1837820;1532623429;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathendom archaeology, https://archive.is/FIxZc >> 'exists just for the crazed fundamentalists' << didjaknow.
1837821;1532624500;mircea_popescu;i like how "crazed fundamentalist" is how the pantsuit says "people smarter than me" nowadays.
1837822;1532624537;mircea_popescu;just like #metoo is how ugly disfunctional bitches nobody would fuck get loud.
1837823;1532624847;asciilifeform;'You clearly perceive immutability as Bitcoin's most important aspect, but others feel that decentralisation is the more important quality ... I don't know how you expect to maintain a decentralised system when the only participants are the limited number of fruitcakes running the 0.5.4 client' << gold.
1837824;1532624984;mircea_popescu;aaaahahahaha
1837825;1532624993;mircea_popescu;"aspects".
1837826;1532625027;mircea_popescu;inca tryna digest bitcoin before bitcoin digests inca. "aspects" being what enzymes say.
1837827;1532625120;*;asciilifeform found the pg by accident while digging for something entirely else, but somewhat disappointed nao, apparently lulz directorate produced 0 new idea since '16
1837828;1532625144;mircea_popescu;or for that matter 2012.
1837829;1532625181;mircea_popescu;it's gonna be a "we're all equal and interchangeable therefore so are you" and "in order to swallow things too big to be swallowed first cut them into parts" and "if anyone gets in your way say the magic words" and so on.
1837830;1532625220;mircea_popescu;what else can it be ? nation of africa is nation of africa, has not produced any new ideas ever seeing how ~that's what it is~. definitionally, if you create a "set of all morons" you're not to expect them to not be morons.
1837831;1532625237;asciilifeform;apparently africa still not done digesting the null from the 'summer of shitforks' escapade.
1837832;1532625461;mircea_popescu;as long as i've not turned out the dole, it'll sit an pretend like it runs the world.
1837833;1532625655;asciilifeform;relatedly, any of the megablox crapola still running ? or all evaporated nao like last yr's snow
1837834;1532625684;mircea_popescu;neverhappened
1837835;1532625689;asciilifeform;ahahahalolk
1837836;1532625698;mircea_popescu;motherwasalwaysiright.
1837837;1532625741;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's funny to me just how PAINFULLY aware all the losers are, of trilema, of things.
1837838;1532625760;mircea_popescu;sitting there in their sad hovels, trying really hard to not say the dragon's name.
1837839;1532625812;asciilifeform;'what dragon, it was cosmic rays' i imagine.
1837840;1532625823;mircea_popescu;luxuries few enjoy, you know, the retort "ask your mother who i am" readily available for any "who are you" inquiries and such.
1837841;1532626024;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform consider the case of stupid kid coming back to his stupid mother from "School" ie daycare, face all blodied up. case 1. "Who did this to you ?" "Joe Nobody!!!!" vs case 2. "Who did this to you ?!" "It was the cosmic rays!"
1837842;1532626052;mircea_popescu;seems to me pretty plain & evident which case is run my "i'm ugly but don't see why this means i get no voice" "#metoo" and which is not.
1837843;1532626241;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: as i gather, these folx inhabit a self-complete leprosorium, with 'rational', non-draconic 'explanation' for erry possible misfortune
1837844;1532629080;mircea_popescu;!Qlater tell lobbes hey, how's that reverse auction thing coming along ? http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833033 item.
1837845;1532629080;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 22:35 lobbes: asciilifeform: can haz. I'ma move this up to item #1 in hopper
1837846;1532629081;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
1837847;1532629110;*;mircea_popescu would like to provide some air to the fine pizarro folk, but... !
1837848;1532632038;phf;!!up lobbes_sans_znc
1837849;1532632039;deedbot;lobbes_sans_znc voiced for 30 minutes.
1837850;1532632048;lobbes_sans_znc;Thx phf
1837851;1532632052;lobbes_sans_znc;mircea_popescu: Currently trying to diagnose why my logbot install is not sending from 'outbox' table. Looking I'll need to learn some basic emacs in order to determine -where- it is failing here. See also thread-fragment  >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837189
1837852;1532632052;a111;Logged on 2018-07-22 18:27 ben_vulpes: lobbes: that the outbox table has entries in it suggests that logbot-start-pg-thread was never called
1837853;1532632070;lobbes_sans_znc;Got derailed early this week with http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-25.log.html#t05:49:24, but that backlog has been cut down, so I'll be refocusing back to auctionbot '2.0'
1837854;1532632072;lobbesbot;Logged on 2018-07-25 05:49:24: <lobbes> price history updated with moar data >> http://lobbesblog.com/queryauctions/pricehistory/index.php
1837855;1532632143;lobbes_sans_znc;Also: need to fix my znc (hopefully 'fix' is simple as: box just restarted and znc did not)
1837856;1532632584;*;lobbes_sans_znc bbl meat
1837857;1532634467;phf;!Qlater tell lobbes not sure that you really need to introduce emacs into the mix, if it's not your first language. an exception in a thread ought to log itself, but you can explicitly hook into debugger machinery and capture it manually: common lisp has *DEBUGGER-HOOK*, which is documented in hyperspec. sbcl further adds sb-ext:*invoke-debugger-hook*. you should also check that those values are nil after you load your
1837858;1532634468;phf; system. slime/swank doesn't do anything smarter than overriding them with own handlers, so you should be able to manually give yourself as much visibility as slime will give you.
1837859;1532634468;lobbesbot;phf: The operation succeeded.
1837860;1532634698;mircea_popescu;lobbes_sans_znc ok but i mean, it's been two weeks!
1837861;1532640349;jurov;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-26#1837766 << or i can pay the invoices directly...but can jurov !!pay deedbot invoices issued to mod6?
1837862;1532640349;a111;Logged on 2018-07-26 00:01 mod6: trinque: Question for ya regarding how jurov can make a payment for The Foundation's hosting fees at Pizarro: Is there a way that I can get an outside BTC address to give him that would go directly to my deedbot wallet?  I see that I can do `!!deposit amount`, which might work, but it could be days before a payment is made.  Is this a problem?  Thoughts?
1837863;1532640373;trinque;what, no.
1837864;1532640402;trinque;why are they invoiced to mod6 if they're for you?
1837865;1532640457;jurov;they are for foundation
1837866;1532640473;jurov;in a sense, neither/both of us
1837867;1532640545;trinque;I dunno why you guys are making it complicated; you can either deposit to mod6's account, or he can invoice you
1837868;1532640567;trinque;but not going to make the definitions of things squashier.
1837869;1532640758;jurov;i'm fine with whatever mod6 decides
1837870;1532640789;jurov;and which definition gets squashier here?
1837871;1532640806;trinque;definition of invoice
1837872;1532640816;trinque;if you're paying, invoice should've been issued to you
1837873;1532640831;trinque;when you invoice someone, this is what you're doing, right? requesting a payment
1837874;1532641006;jurov;yes, nevermind
1837875;1532643286;mircea_popescu;i dunno why you can't just you know, use the account. if you're worried about mixage have #hashtags in the invoice, then you see them in the ledger, this invoice is #foundation and whatrever.
1837876;1532643309;mircea_popescu;if you're the treasurer of x, !!invoice jurov for payments owed by x seems the heart of sanity.
1837877;1532643388;ben_vulpes;sacrifices the public verifiability of "all foundation funds in addrx" but i don't know that's so valuable; foundation addr could just be the proverbial tip hat with some change in it and the curious are directed to read statements
1837878;1532643943;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/anti-racist-football-tournament-cancelled-after-violence-between-refugee-teams/ << Qntra - 'Anti-Racist' Football Tournament Cancelled After Violence Between Refugee Teams
1837879;1532643984;BingoBoingo; ^ Title Fixed: 'Anti-Racist' Football Tournament Cancelled After Racist Violence Between Refugee Teams
1837880;1532646348;mircea_popescu;ahgaha
1837881;1532646385;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes well, rather changes the model from "What foundation got" to "what foundation did". i really don't see that's such a loss.
1837882;1532651198;mod6;jurov: Is it ok with you then (or easy enough for you to do) if I do:  !!invoice jurov [btc_amt_for_june] June Invoice for The Bitcoin Foundation's colocation service. #foundation #pizarro
1837883;1532651214;mod6;(I'll also be making another for July)
1837884;1532651469;mod6;lobbes: As a courtesy, Pizarro would like to let you know that your quarterly rockchip rental is up for renewal after July 31st.  Just a heads-up.  You can renew now, or on August 1st (or thereabouts).
1837885;1532651513;mod6;diana_coman: Same message for you above here ^.  However, you're all paid up through August 4th.
1837886;1532651518;mod6;Thanks! :]
1837887;1532662584;lobbes;mod6: ty for the reminder. I may as well renew now. plox to invoice for another quarter
1837888;1532662707;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-26#1837857 << ty for this btw. I think I will give this a try
1837889;1532662707;a111;Logged on 2018-07-26 19:47 phf: !Qlater tell lobbes not sure that you really need to introduce emacs into the mix, if it's not your first language. an exception in a thread ought to log itself, but you can explicitly hook into debugger machinery and capture it manually: common lisp has *DEBUGGER-HOOK*, which is documented in hyperspec. sbcl further adds sb-ext:*invoke-debugger-hook*. you should also check that those values are nil after you load your
1837890;1532663453;mod6;lobbes: ok, cool!
1837891;1532663480;mod6;!Qcalc (75+75+75)/6800
1837892;1532663481;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.0330882352941
1837893;1532663514;mod6;^ this is what you're looking at to take you through the end of October.
1837894;1532664826;mod6;!!invoice lobbes 0.03308823 Rockchip invoice for 3 months of service, through October 31st, 2018
1837895;1532664832;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3HFjv/?raw=true
1837896;1532665051;mod6;!!v E3E0C81A05DDA2E5942DD5445F2A81AFA081D34EF176E291E32808DBBE3B8E4F
1837897;1532665055;deedbot;Invoiced lobbes 0.03308823 << Rockchip invoice for 3 months of service, through October 31st, 2018
1837898;1532665891;lobbes;!!pay-invoice mod6 1
1837899;1532665895;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dfaxR/?raw=true
1837900;1532665915;lobbes;!!v E3FDAA1052B63328EE9ABDDA06A194D4BF7D241D6F465A2207FF6C4E2837DD89
1837901;1532665919;deedbot;lobbes paid mod6 invoice 1
1837902;1532666773;mod6;Thanks lobbes!
1837903;1532673504;lobbes;pleasure doing business
1837904;1532673506;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-26#1837860 << no, I know. I can only offer the "dayjob for food steals most of my productive hours in the day" excuse here. That being said, the importance of getting this thing up isn't lost on me.
1837905;1532673506;a111;Logged on 2018-07-26 19:51 mircea_popescu: lobbes_sans_znc ok but i mean, it's been two weeks!
1837906;1532673895;diana_coman;mod6, I don't recall: was there any option to pay yearly for the rockchip?
1837907;1532681616;deedbot;http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/078-trilemabot-ii.html << The Tar Pit - trilemabot [ii]: prefixed commands
1837908;1532683045;jurov;mod6: invoicing me directly for foundation expenses is fine
1837909;1532704166;mircea_popescu;!Qlater tell lobbes yet i noticed you've not provided an eta.
1837910;1532704166;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
1837911;1532704222;mircea_popescu;absence is meaningful, you understand, and what that absence means here is "not worth the mention", which in turn translates to "may default to any reasonable value of your choosing" which in this case means to me "definite;y done by saturday". because that's what i want it to be.
1837912;1532704257;mircea_popescu;so saturday we'll be having the same discussion in the same terms, "why have you [implicitly] promised something you didn't deliver", which is just not a good way to go about things.
1837913;1532704301;mircea_popescu;consider that the "top of hopper" item ALSO means, and what it means in this context is "i've not done anything for two weeks seeing how i've not yet touched my top of hopper" "but mp... i got distracted..." "then WHY do you even have a top of hopper concept, if distraction's the law of the land ?"
1837914;1532704362;mircea_popescu;because unlike the empire, where they speak to feel good, like birds chirping, the republic has the log and the mechanism of inference, one can very effectually land self in soup. all it takes is apply the "i want everyone to be happy" imperial process for a few passes, until you've loaded yourself into such a ball of inference no one can possibly managed.
1837915;1532704585;mircea_popescu;so don't do that. instead, see diana_coman 's theoretical work on managing this (ie http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/02/06/its-only-words-and-assumptions-and-priorities-and-ouch/ ) and take for instance Mocky 's very effectual style ( http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-22.log.html#t13:56:10 / http://logs.minigame.biz/2018-07-25.log.html#t19:48:59 etc ). doodn's managed 27 builds of a mining bot NONE OF WHICH WORK to date and i'm
1837916;1532704585;mircea_popescu;not yet yelling at him -- that's gotta be good for something, yes ?
1837917;1532704586;lobbesbot;Logged on 2018-07-22 13:56:10: <Mocky> I'm shooting for wed
1837918;1532705923;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-26#1837786 << trinque informed me that the June rate was actually $6742.  There are two invoices that are were never sent for June, I'll be using this price point to create this invoice, instead of the round $6800 number mentioned in the linked log entry.
1837919;1532705923;a111;Logged on 2018-07-26 01:37 mod6: *nod* was just hoping to find that btc/fiat price.  I never did find it.  Roughly, I think the price was about $6800 when it would have transpired.  But I'll give others a chance to chime on this before I make a June invoice for The Foundation.
1837920;1532706326;mod6;!Qcalc 141.7/6742
1837921;1532706326;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.0210175022249
1837922;1532706371;mod6;!!invoice jurov 0.02101750 June Invoice for The Bitcoin Foundation's colo service. #foundation #pizarro
1837923;1532706375;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RnSGu/?raw=true
1837924;1532706594;mod6;!!v 49528B7B6A2678D5CB49D089E8948D90E1A3B7ABEFECBB0676EAF9ECC008F4A1
1837925;1532706597;deedbot;Invoiced jurov 0.02101750 << June Invoice for The Bitcoin Foundation's colo service. #foundation #pizarro
1837926;1532706638;mod6;!Qcalc 141.7/6800
1837927;1532706638;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.0208382352941
1837928;1532706731;mod6;!!invoice jurov 0.02083823 July Invoice for The Bitcoin Foundation's colo service. #foundation #pizarro
1837929;1532706734;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7aIvm/?raw=true
1837930;1532707101;mod6;!!v F883C94C08F5A6889E960B754B55790D6F3D152ECC645D567DDDD79C666210DC
1837931;1532707104;deedbot;Invoiced jurov 0.02083823 << July Invoice for The Bitcoin Foundation's colo service. #foundation #pizarro
1837932;1532707290;mod6;!Qcalc (141.70/6742)+0.003
1837933;1532707291;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.0240175022249
1837934;1532707374;mod6;!!invoice trinque 0.02401750 June Invoice for colo service and shared shell at pizarro
1837935;1532707378;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6F5nf/?raw=true
1837936;1532707782;mod6;!!v F5173CA8C897148ED79D4BB479591AF2A2C5B94BE788626FF97D2C6B50A9C657
1837937;1532707786;deedbot;Invoiced trinque 0.02401750 << June Invoice for colo service and shared shell at pizarro
1837938;1532707886;trinque;!!v 97FB143588681F6C1906842EDF92289D8D30CF3E53E4B1898CAA1D8DC7120075
1837939;1532707889;deedbot;trinque paid mod6 invoice 1
1837940;1532707909;mod6;trinque: Thanks!
1837941;1532707952;mod6;!Qcalc (141.70/6800)+0.003
1837942;1532707952;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.0238382352941
1837943;1532707960;trinque;of course, thank you too
1837944;1532707964;lobbes;mircea_popescu: this makes a lot of sense, ty. Ima read diana_coman's blog post you referenced and study Mocky's style of communication. I will then provide a proper eta tonight
1837945;1532707964;lobbesbot;lobbes: Sent 1 hour and 3 minutes ago: <mircea_popescu> yet i noticed you've not provided an eta.
1837946;1532708127;mod6;!!invoice trinque 0.02383823 July Invoice for colo service and shared shell at pizarro
1837947;1532708131;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/zB5FK/?raw=true
1837948;1532708231;trinque;what's the exchange rate used on that one?
1837949;1532708279;trinque;oh, 6800, more like 8100 right now.
1837950;1532708345;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-25#1837609
1837951;1532708345;a111;Logged on 2018-07-25 01:59 mod6: All, one thing that I didn't know that I even had to do, was publish the price at which the this months auction for pizarro took place.  It all transpired on July 10th, and the price that was used was $6800.
1837952;1532708383;trinque;I'm not going to eat 1300 of spread here
1837953;1532708455;mod6;Everyone is being invoiced this way.
1837954;1532708489;mod6;This is how ben_vulpes has been doing it, by using the price point set from the btc/fiat sale
1837955;1532708516;trinque;how convenient for you, to choose when to do that sale... ?
1837956;1532708564;mod6;It was done early in the month, when the price was what it was.  If you had be properly invoiced at that time, what then?
1837957;1532708583;mod6;(these invoices are coming in way late -- should have been done as soon as the price point was set)
1837958;1532708586;trinque;the invoice date is moving around on me, so how can I say
1837959;1532708603;trinque;so when are we doing invoices going forward
1837960;1532708609;jurov;!!pay-invoice mod6 1
1837961;1532708612;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/59rYT/?raw=true
1837962;1532708653;mod6;We ideally want to do them as soon as the price signal is placed.
1837963;1532708678;jurov;!!v DA8BD990492D52BD3F4CA4C3A8B7E65B31E48CFBDC88B4AC081EE4A16B635EED
1837964;1532708681;deedbot;jurov paid mod6 invoice 1
1837965;1532708683;mod6;ben_vulpes: care to weigh in here on the above ^ ?
1837966;1532708688;trinque;you realize I want to repurchase what I spend?
1837967;1532708707;trinque;so "ideally" nothing, can we get a date for invoices please?
1837968;1532708711;jurov;!!pay-invoice mod6 2
1837969;1532708714;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JcjNk/?raw=true
1837970;1532708723;ben_vulpes;invoice date will be right after mod6 clears sale of btc and produces a price signal going forward
1837971;1532708764;trinque;ben_vulpes: that is not a date
1837972;1532708770;trinque;that's a "whenever I want"
1837973;1532708781;trinque;schedule the auction, with an end date, and next day is invoice day
1837974;1532708782;ben_vulpes;so mod6 when does the august auction close?
1837975;1532708783;jurov;!!v 2795FE64784943C43FD144E100E7899984215F24F9CB1331E4D3DC7317B283D7
1837976;1532708788;deedbot;jurov paid mod6 invoice 2
1837977;1532708854;mod6;i know it sounds ideal to say, for instance, "auction closes on 10th of month", "invoices will start going out on the 11th".  However, there is no way to know if the auction will be completed.  At this time, it's a very touch-and-go thing.
1837978;1532708864;mod6;jurov: Thanks!
1837979;1532708870;mircea_popescu;trinque the concept is sound, "i'm not eating random spreads", but in practice, a) do you specifically want to repurchase what you spend in short time or at optimuim price ? ie, "you bought all you were going to buy at 6k, what do you care".
1837980;1532708874;mircea_popescu;i do the same thing btw, repurchase spends.
1837981;1532708899;trinque;want these goofs to schedule the invoices.
1837982;1532708904;mircea_popescu;that for sure.
1837983;1532708913;mircea_popescu;wasn't discussing the instant thing, but the broader problem of wtf we do.
1837984;1532708924;mircea_popescu;ie, your complaint has broader teeth i suspect.
1837985;1532708968;ben_vulpes;mod6: if invoice day is the 15th on a month, figure you can close the auction before then?
1837986;1532708990;mod6;there is no way to tell.
1837987;1532708991;trinque;yeah, really matters which way the market is moving, whether I want to stock up first, or replenish after
1837988;1532709006;trinque;mod6: what auction doesn't have an end date?
1837989;1532709019;mircea_popescu;anyway, part of the problem is that the saw teeth are a little overlarge, basically. too few auctions.
1837990;1532709042;mircea_popescu;trinque he doesn't know when lobbes has the auction ready lol.
1837991;1532709089;mod6;it's not only that, it's just trying to get the whole thing organized and sent down there.  This month, I had it all done by the 10th. With plently of time to spare to get invoices out by the 15th.
1837992;1532709101;mircea_popescu;actually, let's suppose i found a solution here :
1837993;1532709129;mod6;But who is to say that I don't get hit by a bus on AUgust 4th, and then it's not complete in time.
1837994;1532709161;trinque;can still make a commitment and after that we're still people who communicate
1837995;1532709186;mircea_popescu;!Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0
1837996;1532709186;lobbesbot;AUCTION # 338 STARTED by mircea_popescu: 8.2k wFF q0 Opening: 1bn coppers Ending: 2018-08-03 16:33:06 UTC (168 hours)
1837997;1532709193;mod6;The fact is, until we have a steady stream of usd coming in, I hesitate to put a date on it -- can only say at this time, "will do best to have them out as soon as we can after the auction".  It's my fault that I didn't start invoicing right away.  I mearly did not, because I thought that these were sent at the end of the month.
1837998;1532709217;mircea_popescu;the above wFF denotes wired filthy fiats ; winner gets the chunk wired to details of his specification at that point.
1837999;1532709247;trinque;!Qhelp
1838000;1532709247;lobbesbot;trinque: http://lobbesblog.com/lobbesbotcommands
1838001;1532709249;mircea_popescu;there is some wiggle room in the sense that banks are unreliable and so if it does come out it's impossible to wire as intended, the trade just unwinds.
1838002;1532709282;mircea_popescu;delivery within ~2weeks from date of closing, because wtf can you do.
1838003;1532709379;trinque;yeah, my first invoice was based on the WU I sent
1838004;1532709458;trinque;mod6: I understand there are challenges; I'm also trying to be a model customer for you, and while I generally trust you to do sensible things, $invoiceDate = rand() isn't be great for your business either.
1838005;1532709528;trinque;there are a finite amount of "the interface slipped thousands of funnybux between auction and invoice" that I will eat, and I will proably eat more of them than other customers that don't know you as well
1838006;1532709542;trinque;fair or not, it's a problem you have
1838007;1532710161;trinque;another thing to consider is whether you're encouraging people to pay for 12mos of service upfront. it buys you runway, puts some extra cash in your hand for adspend or w/e serves bringing on more customers. right now I'm compelled to wait another month at month to month to see what the spread is next month, and you have a bit less cash to wield.
1838008;1532710210;trinque;!!v 5AAA9A4604C6BC8A3558E93B42753B0D4DA69D421137099CBB8289913D0EC4C6
1838009;1532710213;deedbot;trinque paid mod6 invoice 2
1838010;1532710234;trinque;I'm gonna let ^ be what it is, but hopefully some of what I'm saying seems reasonable.
1838011;1532710266;mod6;I haven't even invoiced you yet.
1838012;1532710273;trinque;oh lol
1838013;1532710281;trinque;could have sworn I saw a second one
1838014;1532710286;mod6;Once you raised your objection, I haven't sent in the !!v yet.
1838015;1532710299;trinque;ah got it
1838016;1532710350;trinque;I'm willing to pay this one and move forward, just giving feedback for next time
1838017;1532710591;mod6;Alright, sounds good.   I appreciate that.  I have notes on this; will ensure that invoices go out immedately after btc/fiat auction is complete and price point published.  This should help everyone involved.
1838018;1532710617;trinque;thanks mod6
1838019;1532710625;mod6;!!v http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-25#1837609
1838020;1532710625;a111;Logged on 2018-07-25 01:59 mod6: All, one thing that I didn't know that I even had to do, was publish the price at which the this months auction for pizarro took place.  It all transpired on July 10th, and the price that was used was $6800.
1838021;1532710629;mod6;dangit
1838022;1532710641;mod6;!!v F5173CA8C897148ED79D4BB479591AF2A2C5B94BE788626FF97D2C6B50A9C657
1838023;1532710907;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837936 << that was june
1838024;1532710907;a111;Logged on 2018-07-27 16:09 mod6: !!v F5173CA8C897148ED79D4BB479591AF2A2C5B94BE788626FF97D2C6B50A9C657
1838025;1532710988;mod6;ah jeeze.  sorry.
1838026;1532711043;mod6;!!v 4C6BE78C23D4F8336DC0C318FC0C9D29B02FFDBC8F47242B0A9323D4EE3E1119
1838027;1532711048;deedbot;Invoiced trinque 0.02383823 << July Invoice for colo service and shared shell at pizarro
1838028;1532711118;trinque;!!v 59C91508719232F9D063C14F1288E7DFA5718EB0D010425EBD576D9FB2EA4C3C
1838029;1532711121;deedbot;trinque paid mod6 invoice 2
1838030;1532712797;mod6;!!invoice mats 0.01362880 Invoice for 100gb of disk space on shared shell for one year
1838031;1532712801;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vNqTv/?raw=true
1838032;1532713018;mod6;!!v E8206D6DC7F551505D7E6E231A6407E65287B216DE82C1462BB7FED7156F1526
1838033;1532713023;deedbot;Invoiced mats 0.01362880 << Invoice for 100gb of disk space on shared shell for one year
1838034;1532714213;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837906 -> did I miss the answer for this? mod6 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo ?
1838035;1532714213;a111;Logged on 2018-07-27 06:44 diana_coman: mod6, I don't recall: was there any option to pay yearly for the rockchip?
1838036;1532714280;ben_vulpes;one can pay annually, but the discount is for quarterly up-front payments: 25%.
1838037;1532714327;mod6;diana_coman: I was just getting to your question, I didn't miss it :]
1838038;1532714351;mod6;I did pay annually for mine, diana_coman.  At today's price-point you're looking at:
1838039;1532714379;mod6;!Qcalc ((75*12)/6800)+(0.00104167*12)
1838040;1532714380;lobbesbot;mod6: 0.144852981176
1838041;1532714391;mod6;For 1 Year RockChip + FG ^
1838042;1532714489;diana_coman;ok, invoice me as ^ for 1 year then please, mod6
1838043;1532714505;mod6;You got it!
1838044;1532714517;mats;!!v 941D9E9EDE328DE31A81E3BF00E49D9B85C2D5B4A3485694454BBDB67C6D4A63
1838045;1532714599;mod6;!!invoice diana_coman 0.14485298 Invoice for one year of Rockchip + FG
1838046;1532714603;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/lb1Dp/?raw=true
1838047;1532714649;mats;!!v AA88E4470FE84B972C66C5FF504F572E0F929B8501D414DCE5A9A2CA3670DD8A
1838048;1532714653;deedbot;mats paid mod6 invoice 1
1838049;1532714659;mod6;Thanks mats!
1838050;1532714854;mod6;!!v 944BFE87C12E7196BEE6194A3E1F55ADABCFDE0B3CC9B30F6398114E8370D835
1838051;1532714858;deedbot;Invoiced diana_coman 0.14485298 << Invoice for one year of Rockchip + FG
1838052;1532715214;mod6;Ok, that's all the invoicing that needed to be done for this month for existing customers & contracts.  I appreciate all of your patience and help through this transition month for me.
1838053;1532715279;mod6;!!sent-invoices
1838054;1532715284;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FkfON/?raw=true
1838055;1532715286;mod6;!!ledger
1838056;1532715291;deedbot;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ibx2e/?raw=true
1838057;1532722645;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/herpes-strikes-foul-at-ohio-county-fair/ << Qntra - Herpes Strikes Foul At Ohio County Fair
1838058;1532744993;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/un-begs-for-cash-after-blowing-through-all-the-money/ << Qntra - UN Begs For Cash After Blowing Through All The Money
1838059;1532752212;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/la-lupa/ << Trilema - La Lupa
1838060;1532755797;deedbot;http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/auctionbot-eta-and-status-report/ << lobbesblog - Auctionbot ETA and Status Report
1838061;1532755946;lobbes;mod6, mircea_popescu, other interested parties ^^
1838062;1532775024;deedbot;http://danielpbarron.com/2018/sounds-nerdy/ << Daniel P. Barron - Sounds nerdy
1838063;1532780569;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1838045 -> thanks, paid
1838064;1532780569;a111;Logged on 2018-07-27 18:03 mod6: !!invoice diana_coman 0.14485298 Invoice for one year of Rockchip + FG
1838065;1532789042;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-10#1833262 << i traced the problem to wear and tear of one of the wires that runs from motherboard to the screen around the hinge area on the power plug side. the wire coating was damaged, and the wire would get in contact with the frame. it's the kind of issue you'd see on an old laptop after a decade of use, but i guess in this case chineseum
1838066;1532789042;a111;Logged on 2018-07-10 19:22 phf: hmm, cp101pa hardware is really flaky, or perhaps i got a dud unit, because the "random shutdowns" "can't wake up" "stuck in a turn on/turn off mode" issues persist
1838067;1532789637;asciilifeform;phf: lol!
1838068;1532789666;asciilifeform;phf: i associate this kind of thing specifically with crapple . i guess other vendors finally catching up!111
1838069;1532789707;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform's pet has a early-2000s crapple that's on its 4th lcd hv cable )
1838070;1532789828;asciilifeform;naively one could imagine that there's a market niche for a lappy that isn't a piece of shit. but evidently..
1838071;1532796204;mircea_popescu;speaking of nothing in particular, i'd say erryone who hasn't read http://trilema.com/2016/the-herd-of-independent-minds-or-has-the-avantgarde-its-own-mass-culture/ should prolly do that now.
1838072;1532796226;mircea_popescu;heck, even if read, the re-read may turn out to be quite enjoyable.
1838073;1532796236;*;asciilifeform reread recently, a+++
1838074;1532796289;mircea_popescu;the republic's ideology has just about caught up with the state of the art cca 1948, and we can in fact very directly use rosenberg terminology to explain why the pantsuit are so fucking objectionable, both ethically and aesthetically.
1838075;1532796479;mircea_popescu;very plainly put : that the elite is tempted to think of the herd in individual terms (which for the herd are inadequate in the sense shoes are inadequate to cows -- too much hassle for too little actual, practical, "how does the shoes relate to me" benefit) ; whereas the herd is only capable to think the elite in herd terms (between http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-21#985204 and how, say, romanian peasants' imago of "the king"
1838076;1532796479;a111;Logged on 2015-01-21 01:37 mircea_popescu: very common problem people have on the internet, the "everyone is as stupid as me / everyone's a goat the same gender and age as me" issue.
1838077;1532796479;mircea_popescu;'s "palace" as preserved in folklore includes all the features of a well-to-do peasant's house, and activities there pertaining. what's to keep the king from going to wait in the veranda ?).
1838078;1532796548;mircea_popescu;and that these are irreconcilable : either human experience will be discussed in terms of the elite, or of the herd. and that an multi-secular attempt at a discussion of human experience from a herd perspective is what http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818281 question hinges on.
1838079;1532796548;a111;Logged on 2018-05-24 18:22 asciilifeform: ( recall mao's, when asked 'was french rev a good idea' 'too soon to say' )
1838080;1532796578;mircea_popescu;and that it is not too late to tell now. and that we can tell it utterly failed, both in the soviet "one big mass" approach and in the roosevelt-socialist "pyramid of many masses" approach
1838081;1532796622;mircea_popescu;and that it hasn't merely failed happenstantially, but that it has failed necessarily and substantially : there can not be such a thing as a herd pov of human experience, simply because herd perspectives are falsifying, and in THAT of being of the many, therefore they are false.
1838082;1532796654;mircea_popescu;and that the failure works exactly as rosenberg describes : in trying to elide the commonality to situation, they recourse to a hallucinary commonality of experience, and method.
1838083;1532796759;mircea_popescu;(which both informs and explains ancient republican tenets such as "use whatever fucking language you're using" and so on. and which plainly explains why faux elites of the mass movement, be it weev or yarvin or that schmuck in "black mirror" or the "pua community" or w/e focus on a. providing a "sure fire" method through which b. you too, ~whoever you may be~ can whatever. this is necessarily and of its own blood and bone wr
1838084;1532796759;mircea_popescu;ong.)
1838085;1532796837;mircea_popescu;and so there we go. the reason their world ends is that we're right ; and they're wrong. at which point, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-03#1693368
1838086;1532796837;a111;Logged on 2017-08-03 18:20 mircea_popescu: how did the poet put it, "the writing head does write, and having writ, moves on
1838087;1532796900;mircea_popescu;poor marx, you know, and his delusions of "man liberated from the necessity of labour and then from the fetishism of market will finallty be an artist!!!". nigga say wut, take the cow's milk and hide, it goes back to being a baby, it doesn't become a philosopher.
1838088;1532797011;mircea_popescu;(note that all this directly ties into any random throe of socialism you might pick. say, the conteporary focus of usg pantsuit on disucssing "priviledge" -- directly because imagining an uncommonality of situation makes a fine last ditch effort to salvage the other commonalities "much more important to us".)
1838089;1532797058;mircea_popescu;aaand in closing,
1838090;1532797060;mircea_popescu;"But the genuine work of art, going past the formulated common experience, may succeed in communicating the common situation -- all too clearly from the point of view of the guardians of stasis. I doubt that those in authority would be so violently opposed to authentic art if, as they claim, it revealed only the private personality of the artist and had no further reference. On the contrary, I am inclined to believe that when
1838091;1532797060;mircea_popescu; art is condemned as "lacking broad meaning" or as "unrelated to real life" these accusations often disguise the fear that the exact opposite is true -- that this deviation has too much meaning and bears too acute a relation to life to be reconciled with the common myth."
1838092;1532797835;mircea_popescu;o checkme out, all caught up with logs!
1838093;1532797856;*;mircea_popescu will now go read republican blogs an' town. let's see how much damage does an earthquake do!
1838094;1532800143;asciilifeform;!#s ortega y gasset
1838095;1532800144;a111;3 results for "ortega y gasset", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ortega%20y%20gasset
1838096;1532800147;asciilifeform;hmm
1838097;1532800168;asciilifeform;i could've sworn there was a trilema re subj. quite related to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-28#1838071 , imho.
1838098;1532800168;a111;Logged on 2018-07-28 16:43 mircea_popescu: speaking of nothing in particular, i'd say erryone who hasn't read http://trilema.com/2016/the-herd-of-independent-minds-or-has-the-avantgarde-its-own-mass-culture/ should prolly do that now.
1838099;1532801671;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/us-congress-considering-drastic-fine-increases-for-pirate-radio-activity/ << Qntra - US Congress Considering Drastic Fine Increases For "Pirate" Radio Activity
1838100;1532802190;mircea_popescu;lmao
1838101;1532802321;asciilifeform;'The term pirate radio broadcasting means the transmission of communications on spectrum frequencies between 535 to 1705 kHz or 87.7 to 108 MHz without a license issued by the Federal Communications Commission' << very peculiarly doesn't mention the rest of the spectrum
1838102;1532802425;mircea_popescu;lobbes oh i see what happened, so basically you went "shit, i'll do this auction fix thing once i get the whole bot rewritten".
1838103;1532802440;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nobody expects they know what they're doing.
1838104;1532802498;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: or possibly the ordinary bureaucratic tunnel vision ( ~100% of 'pirate' of commercial interest to usa 'music' cartels lives precisely in the 'plebe fm' range specified )
1838105;1532802640;asciilifeform;typically a puerto rican, or other orc, with rooftop aerial, good for 5-10km ; in rare cases, a 'darwinfish' church type
1838106;1532802692;asciilifeform;cranking out, respectively, unauthorized salsa, or the one trooo word of the saviour (tm)(r), etc
1838107;1532802751;asciilifeform;in both cases -- unforgivably!111 -- sans usg ads
1838108;1532802909;asciilifeform;come to think of it, the specimen in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-30#1761039 thread, was typical.
1838109;1532802909;a111;Logged on 2017-12-30 03:04 l0de: The l0de radio hour is online! http://www.youtube.com/l0de/live call in live at 315-505-4666 TONIGHTS EPISODE: REMOTE AS FUCK, SHIT MAY NOT WORK
1838110;1532802983;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1752954 << earlier.
1838111;1532802983;a111;Logged on 2017-12-18 01:18 phf: "The l0de radio hour is a long-running live call-in show that irregularly broadcasts over the internet, and to pirate shortwave and FM stations. It is hosted by Lode Ray Dio, a gypsy hustler with a long history of fraud, grifting, and treason. The show is notable for its frequent cancellations, obscene and bizarre content, and a high rate of listener suicide."
1838112;1532803474;mircea_popescu;aha.
1838113;1532803501;mircea_popescu;men alone, what can you do.
1838114;1532805458;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-28#1838102 << yes. I do not see any point to building more on top of the unsteady scaffolding. I'd rather it rest on a proper republican foundation. and ftr, I did state this was my intention from the start >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-09#1833022
1838115;1532805458;a111;Logged on 2018-07-28 18:27 mircea_popescu: lobbes oh i see what happened, so basically you went "shit, i'll do this auction fix thing once i get the whole bot rewritten".
1838116;1532805458;a111;Logged on 2018-07-09 21:24 lobbes: mod6 I would gladly work to earn that grant. As it is, I already need to get the 'legacy' auctionbot away from heathen dependencies (in this case, the 'supybot' api), so in building this custom auctionbot for pizarro I may just take the opportunity to design something sitting atop ircbot/logbot and eventually release a proper genesis
1838117;1532805682;mircea_popescu;lobbes nothing wrong with that. i think it's both sound a decision in general and your call to make in any case. but it gotta be communicated as such.
1838118;1532806316;lobbes;clear communication is definitely a weak point of mine, and from what I can tell stems from my own unorganized mental processes. But as a semi-related side-note: Finally having a sane blogging tool is doing wonders for remedying the foregoing.
1838119;1532812572;asciilifeform;!!up fromloper
1838120;1532812572;deedbot;fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
1838121;1532812594;asciilifeform;fromloper: hello ?
1838122;1532812618;fromloper;Hello. Was just reading through your blog, figured I would hop on IRC. Really I wanted to see if you were on reddit
1838123;1532812651;asciilifeform;curious, what's it mean 'on reddit'. i've an ancient and mostly disused acct there, what of it
1838124;1532812706;asciilifeform;posting to reddit is close to a guaranteed waste of time .
1838125;1532812709;asciilifeform;!#s reddit
1838126;1532812709;a111;4803 results for "reddit", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=reddit
1838127;1532812712;asciilifeform;^ behold.
1838128;1532812716;fromloper;Really I mean I wanted to make sure you weren't a guy I've got beef with on /r/lisp, because I would have to appologize.
1838129;1532812738;fromloper;Anyway, I've been contemplating building a lisp OS
1838130;1532812747;asciilifeform;unless it was in 2007 or approx, chances are that not
1838131;1532812754;fromloper;I won't mess with alternative archs like you are...at least not now
1838132;1532812836;fromloper;I just went down the rabbit hole of TempleOS. It is both terrifying and brilliant.
1838133;1532812867;fromloper;Anyway, didn't mean to bother you. I will go back to interacting with a more crystalized form of your mind. Adios.
1838134;1532812873;asciilifeform;fromloper: the moment you start trying to implement something that runs on actual iron, rather than vm/emulator, you're in for some hurt.
1838135;1532812883;asciilifeform;aite.
1838136;1532812899;fromloper;Ya... if I feel the pain, I own an FPGA I might play with.
1838137;1532812902;fromloper;Cya.
1838138;1532812921;asciilifeform;was gonna point him to the l0gz, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544120
1838139;1532812921;a111;Logged on 2016-09-17 16:55 asciilifeform: yes. and it made sense to me in '07. but not in '10 when i understood how the actual extant pc iron works.
1838140;1532812934;asciilifeform;but apparently reddit attention span dun work that way...
1838141;1532816489;trinque;lol, this "I have beef with someone on reddit" thing
1838142;1532819312;BingoBoingo;Well, can't have beef with the moocows
1838143;1532820905;asciilifeform;'hey, i heard you wrote something about music, i'm gonna start a band' 'what instruments do you play' 'i'm gonna bang two rocks together' 'y'know, it is not easy to tune these' 'eh, if i feel the pain, i have a stringless fiddle in my attic i might play with'
1838144;1532821113;BingoBoingo;It's how these things work. Yesterday I went to the electric company office to correct a bunch of mispellings and sign a contract for the power they have been delivering here. Monday I get to go to the fiber company office for similar reasons
1838145;1532824524;deedbot;http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/07/28/meet-harry/ << Bingo Blog - Meet Harry
1838146;1532827695;BingoBoingo;brb, Ludo and cooking tuna for the tuna
1838147;1532828690;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo ahahahaah omfg that was hysterical
1838148;1532828719;BingoBoingo;tyvm
1838149;1532828753;BingoBoingo;Seriously though a more detailed update on the state of Casa Boingo is indeed baking
1838150;1532828809;BingoBoingo;In other news, pete_d's new blog header has him with a Elon Musk branded weeding torch http://www.contravex.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/contravex-not-a-flamethrower-header.jpeg
1838151;1532829029;mircea_popescu;in other news, "nudo" is how you say knots in this country. because obviously nudity and tries go together!
1838152;1532835034;mircea_popescu;it occurs to me, here's a good idea for a film : this woman loses a child, like it disappears. and then a year or so later it is found!
1838153;1532835038;mircea_popescu;however... it is not her child.
1838154;1532835057;mircea_popescu;in fact, there's this group of weirdos on reddit who train children to pretend they're the missing children of other people.
1838155;1532835094;mircea_popescu;basically a platform to explore the woeful mismatch between the inadequacy of ye olde fiat institutions and the far reaching powers of the network.
1838156;1532835148;mircea_popescu;obvious she "goes to friends for advice". what fucking friends ? what fucking "advice" ? the world hasn't worked that way in two centuries, if i want a shirt i want 1 in 1000 shirt shops, if i want a woman i talk to candidates selected through three to five passes with two to three degrees of magnitude lossage each...
1838157;1532854247;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2018/jap-deva/ << Trilema - Jap Deva!
1838158;1532867577;asciilifeform;holyfuq that drainpipe stove. they have better stoves in gulag.
1838159;1532867849;asciilifeform;consider : http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/jap-deva-11.jpg << vs >> http://www.kolymastory.ru/wp-content/gallery/dneprov/109555743.jpg
1838160;1532871798;phf;asciilifeform: that's not a fair comparison, if nothing else gulag still was _men_ wrestling raw matter from the earth in extreme environmental conditions, and succeeding. whatever limited technological support they had had to work reliably and achieve some kind of objective
1838161;1532872391;asciilifeform;i dungetit , why not fair comparison
1838162;1532872399;asciilifeform;the cr folx have 2 arms and 2 legs, neh
1838163;1532872411;asciilifeform;they could make oildrum stove like anybody else.
1838164;1532872755;asciilifeform;phf: or didja mean the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-08#1748753 thesis. then sure.
1838165;1532872755;a111;Logged on 2017-12-08 15:02 asciilifeform: the 'good climate makes folx lazy and slowly climbing 'back up to trees' ' item is an old saw, but i'm not aware of any major hole in the theory
1838166;1532872763;phf;asciilifeform: it's not a fair comparison to gulag folx
1838167;1532872828;phf;they were still men, doing things. this is, like your quoted item, half way up a tree
1838168;1532872906;phf;you know how when somebody says "she's like a pig" and somebody says "that's not fair to the pig, pigs are noble creatures"
1838169;1532872912;asciilifeform;aa
1838170;1532873015;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's puzzler is , re how mircea_popescu gave verdict 'argentines are subhuman' but then moves closer to equator, where monkeys , and somehow there - 'not subhuman'
1838171;1532873059;asciilifeform;( not even clear, to my untrained eye, why 'ticos' need stove. to make tea, primus would suffice, neh )
1838172;1532873138;phf;can't burn trash and flotsam in a primus
1838173;1532873148;asciilifeform;troo
1838174;1532873195;asciilifeform;gotta admit, the 'charm' of the squalor, is lost on asciilifeform .
1838175;1532873295;phf;i think mircea_popescu benefits the more virginal the peasants are around him. easier to source untainted (?) bulk meat of four legged and two legged kind
1838176;1532873304;asciilifeform;i recall his theory that it generates better chix, somehow. but still strikes me as ugh.
1838177;1532873336;diana_coman;asciilifeform, fwiw my reading of the matter is "less pretense"
1838178;1532873428;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i can see this pov. fwiw my emulated mircea_popescu says : 'if ameritards were given their just deserts per their actual productivity, they would then lack not only their gas stove, but would not even have primus'
1838179;1532873825;phf;asciilifeform: while idly researching camping stoves, i recently saw a lulzy video of an american trying to light a polish camping primus and failing miserably (the manual dexterity (???) required for the pre-heat phase was apparently too much for this particular specimen)
1838180;1532873950;phf;^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh9ijtC8LLk
1838181;1532874288;phf;*ukranian
1838182;1532875870;asciilifeform;lol!!
1838183;1532876019;asciilifeform;'we can't get kerosene, let's use diesel' even
1838184;1532876057;asciilifeform;the sheer wtf...
1838185;1532876158;asciilifeform;and all over hands.
1838186;1532880729;*;mircea_popescu is actually quite curious if esthlos managed to do two days yest :D
1838187;1532880768;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i think the zinc'd sheet item is 100% made by hand with hand tools. hands of people not even particularly strong.
1838188;1532880787;mircea_popescu;it's what i'd expect an industrious 9yo with unlimited materials & time at his disposition would turn out.
1838189;1532880794;asciilifeform;sheet metal scissors, ha.
1838190;1532881218;mircea_popescu;also i'll point out, 49k colones is almost a whole benjie
1838191;1532881240;mircea_popescu;this isn't somalia 1-dollar-a-day level of starvation poor. costa rica is relatively economically developed, about on par with say ohio.
1838192;1532881449;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838160 << this is very much the salient point here. the new world tribesmen, be they of the spanish-mediated variety as in "whatever survived onslaught" or the dutch&english mediated varieties, as in "we withrew to mancave leaving the stupid women behind to revert to irqouisism reinforced with some somaliland shamanic sentiment" are very much children, fundamentally and irrecoverably intelle
1838193;1532881449;a111;Logged on 2018-07-29 13:43 phf: asciilifeform: that's not a fair comparison, if nothing else gulag still was _men_ wrestling raw matter from the earth in extreme environmental conditions, and succeeding. whatever limited technological support they had had to work reliably and achieve some kind of objective
1838194;1532881449;mircea_popescu;ctually simple.
1838195;1532881482;mircea_popescu;kinda like the revered mirvniki of legend, takes 100 of them to make cvasifunctional approximation of human agent.
1838196;1532881512;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838162 << chimps, also.
1838197;1532881512;a111;Logged on 2018-07-29 13:53 asciilifeform: the cr folx have 2 arms and 2 legs, neh
1838198;1532881641;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838170 << argentines are literally and without exageration a bunch of soy farmers who pretend FOR NO REASON conceivable, a circumstance of which they are aware AND PRETEND IT DOES NOT MATTER! AT ALL!, pretend they say they're something in the vein of "third power in europe". and that they might have such things as submarines, and so on. it's literally pig going through girls' charm cabinet a
1838199;1532881641;a111;Logged on 2018-07-29 14:03 asciilifeform: asciilifeform's puzzler is , re how mircea_popescu gave verdict 'argentines are subhuman' but then moves closer to equator, where monkeys , and somehow there - 'not subhuman'
1838200;1532881641;mircea_popescu;nd insisting there's no difference between vamp in her make-up and the very pig with lipstick.
1838201;1532881648;mircea_popescu;this is offensive to the senses.
1838202;1532881688;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the ticos are ~coffee farmers~, ie, you realise, mountain fucking people, and this is NOT the same, i've never met plainsdwellers i could stand. and they pretend to nothing whatsoever, but they are specifically and openly dedicated to todo bien.
1838203;1532881747;mircea_popescu;ie, they're cows, minding their own fucking business of cowsing. how can one take offence with that ? and how could one, even if momentarily offended by whatever matching of circumstance capable of tricking his eye, how could one not, on the second pass when one always thinks about things, not realise it's really his fucking problem, trying to affix veils to veals and whatnot ?
1838204;1532882195;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838175 << this is absolutely not true. after months during which i had my girls scour the place (and seeing how the population isn't all that much, i do believe they touched personally every single individual female that could perhaps be worth my consideration) the net result was epsilon. most of the bootcamp population is imported here, and for very fundamental reasons : it takes ~a lot~ of
1838205;1532882195;a111;Logged on 2018-07-29 14:08 phf: i think mircea_popescu benefits the more virginal the peasants are around him. easier to source untainted (?) bulk meat of four legged and two legged kind
1838206;1532882195;mircea_popescu; intellectual sophistication to cut it as a slavegirl in my harem. i said before, "There's not who'd compete and there's not how to compete with her, it's a laughable proposition, like a samurai at a kindergarten." and yes that is after training. but all the training in the world can't help the instant kindergartner.
1838207;1532882269;mircea_popescu;on the basis of extensive experience i'd guess there's high five to six figures females potentially interesting to me alive at any given moment. and yes i intend to see them all before i die.
1838208;1532882809;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: so the appeal of cr -- the climate, the iguanas ?
1838209;1532882871;mircea_popescu;yes, as to the climate, it's perfect and eternal spring. yes, as to the land, it's fucking beautiful, and the pineapple is fabulous and the coffee is best-in-the-world and so on.
1838210;1532882905;asciilifeform;makes sense.
1838211;1532882935;mircea_popescu;it delivers the things you ~want~ from the general population, eg, grocery bag boy who is, genuinely and thoroughly, deligted to bag my ~500 worth of imported french wine and whatnot. and he'll take the time to roll each bottle nicely in thick paper, if i want him to. and he'll hitch it all to a cart and follow me to the car, and be so fucking thrilled he got a fiver for it.
1838212;1532882998;mircea_popescu;and people who will stop traffic to pull your car out from the mud because you stopped to take pics. and in general, you don't want to fuck your neighbour specifically, the little you fuck (and it IS little, boyish fantasies notwithstanding, one competent, well trained woman can exhaust and keep exhausted a dozen or more men) can very well be imported.
1838213;1532883015;mircea_popescu;it helps though if your neighbour harbors no airs or delusions of self importance. it helps IMMENSELY.
1838214;1532883125;asciilifeform;i thought mircea_popescu brought own servant hands errywhere
1838215;1532883132;asciilifeform;what's the use of the bottle wrapping boy
1838216;1532883171;asciilifeform;( iirc there was a trilema where 'restaurant waiter is a kind of ersatz servant for those who can't afford own, like that jacket they keep for the occasional d00d who wanders in without jacket' )
1838217;1532883178;mircea_popescu;how do you reconcile this with http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-24#1837586 ?
1838218;1532883178;a111;Logged on 2018-07-24 16:31 asciilifeform: it went approx like this, iirc some time in 2016 :   asciilifeform : 'if quality slavegurlz can be trained to do anything , mircea_popescu couldja spare 1 or 2 for ada battallion ' mircea_popescu : 'hell no, why would i waste any on such a thing; what next, i will ask asciilifeform to do field work detail in their place ? '
1838219;1532883218;asciilifeform;i dun see contradiction -- they're already with you in restaurant, neh, it isn't as if wrapping bottle will subtract from the spywork
1838220;1532883258;mircea_popescu;how would you know ?
1838221;1532883276;mircea_popescu;maybe she's tailing the soviets. maybe she's picking up random dutch tourist girl. maybe she's just having a snooze.
1838222;1532883300;mircea_popescu;there's no shortage of work to be done, and nothing wrong with relief from the menial.
1838223;1532883473;asciilifeform;speaking of 'no relief from the menial', i'ma bbl.
1838224;1532883499;mircea_popescu;heh.
1838225;1532883562;mircea_popescu;anyway, i for one am amused by his easy slide from "why do you like" to "why do you need". obviously i don't fucking need a waitress, yes i can have my own sluts do it for me, and on (rare!) occasion i do just that. but why the fuck would i trade slavegirl time for minwage time, for one, and why the fuck would i have to ~like~ having to do it.
1838226;1532883674;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838183 << and then you wanna talk about "halfway up tree". these are the people with "we can't get penis, let's use bit of plastic" right.
1838227;1532883674;a111;Logged on 2018-07-29 14:53 asciilifeform: 'we can't get kerosene, let's use diesel' even
1838228;1532887364;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-28#1838063 << Thanks!
1838229;1532887364;a111;Logged on 2018-07-28 12:22 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1838045 -> thanks, paid
1838230;1532896267;mod6;ah, nice.  big step back up in difficulty, +14.88%
1838231;1532905289;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have nfi in what shithole the d00d in the clip lives, even here there is kerosene.
1838232;1532905317;asciilifeform;( sold errywhere, lotsa folx have kerosene heaters in sheds, terrible malodorous thing )
1838233;1532906062;deedbot;http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/07/29/casa-boingo-a-photo-tour/ << Bingo Blog - Casa Boingo  A Photo Tour
1838234;1532907085;BingoBoingo;^Questions, comments, suggestions welcome
1838235;1532908000;mircea_popescu;lol not bad.
1838236;1532908017;mircea_popescu;and holy shit what am i going to do with this dumbass.
1838237;1532909845;BingoBoingo;Have one of the other classmates set her up a bouncer?
1838238;1532909879;mircea_popescu;emh.
1838239;1532909885;mircea_popescu;i don't believe in palliation.
1838240;1532910014;BingoBoingo;In that case you could get her delivered to your mountain and get a start as a banana plantation owner.
1838241;1532910035;BingoBoingo;Specialization and all that
1838242;1532910073;BingoBoingo;If she's eager but otherwise inept, there's always holes that need dug
1838243;1532910084;mircea_popescu;and steam excavators to dig them.
1838244;1532910172;BingoBoingo;And I take it you don't have  need for a single purpose dishwasher.
1838245;1532910978;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/cl-keccak-week-3/ << esthlos - cl-keccak, Week 3
1838246;1532911104;*;asciilifeform finally got inlining to work properly in ffa, ave-style . nao, the article!
1838247;1532911109;asciilifeform;*ave1
1838248;1532911155;asciilifeform;gonna put'em on a 1st-and-15th calendar.
1838249;1532911377;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: to round off prev thread , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-30#1838243 is exactly it -- i'd prefer 'steam' waiters too, if these existed ! somehow asciilifeform is 100% blind to the 'feeling served' pleasure. i like work to happen, dun much care how, and steam beats meat just about erry time.
1838250;1532911377;a111;Logged on 2018-07-30 00:21 mircea_popescu: and steam excavators to dig them.
1838251;1532911467;*;asciilifeform bbl,meat
1838252;1532912780;mircea_popescu;sometimes you sound like you just got off the set of a chaplin movie.
1838253;1532913569;BingoBoingo;In still other discoveries of the day they have a deli meat here. It's like mortadella and morcilla had a child on a bed of black pepper.
1838254;1532916583;BingoBoingo;In other news, a "tupamaro" (some sort of terrorist Italian hill monkey from which most of the current government is derived) is suing the local gov for treating him like a terrorist https://www.elobservador.com.uy/amodio-perez-demanda-al-estado-us-320-mil-n1259700
1838255;1532916974;BingoBoingo;Also, no paying ransoms through official channels here https://www.elobservador.com.uy/el-brou-se-quedo-parte-del-rescate-secuestro-salomone-n1259355
1838256;1532918576;asciilifeform;'De este modo, el BROU se convirtió en el único actor identificado que sacó un rédito económico con el secuestro que tuvo a Salomone recluida durante un mes: cobró aproximadamente US$ 2.500 por concepto de sus servicios.' << lolwtf
1838257;1532918733;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: is that little thing on the wall, tv antenna ?! and it catches something??
1838258;1532918952;BingoBoingo;It is indeed the antenna, and it catches all of the local channels.
1838259;1532918958;asciilifeform;impressive
1838260;1532918990;BingoBoingo;Mind all of the local channels come from antennas within 5km of here
1838261;1532919015;asciilifeform;still impressive, i'd have imagined multipath would be a killer in BingoBoingostan
1838262;1532919358;BingoBoingo;Well, It's a missouri sized country they are broadcasting too and they do the digital video thing with some sort of error correcting mechanism
1838263;1532919386;BingoBoingo;I also get one classic method tv channel of unknown (maybe Argentine?) origin
1838264;1532931143;mircea_popescu;anyone wanna do a 20bux paypal payment for me ?
1838265;1532956957;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'll do it, plox to gpg.
1838266;1532964662;mod6;hai
1838267;1532965199;BingoBoingo;Buenas tardes
1838268;1532965220;mod6;Nice pics BingoBoingo, looks like you're settling in nicely.
1838269;1532965785;BingoBoingo;ty
1838270;1532967262;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/W9sYG/?raw=true
1838271;1532967274;mircea_popescu;harry the bird still cracks me up...
1838272;1532967412;BingoBoingo;Well, when I sent a picture of what was then simply known as "the plant" to the Venezolana (still in Venezuala on family business), she asked if it had and name and... Ya ta
1838273;1532967835;mircea_popescu;you know it's usually spelled venezuEla.
1838274;1532968025;mircea_popescu;!Qcalc 20 / 8200
1838275;1532968025;lobbesbot;mircea_popescu: 0.00243902439024
1838276;1532968033;mircea_popescu;!!pay asciilifeform 0.00243902439
1838277;1532968038;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wR1xe/?raw=true
1838278;1532968040;mircea_popescu;that's too many is it.
1838279;1532968058;mircea_popescu;i guess we find out what deedbot does when fed 11 digits.
1838280;1532977154;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in resurrected vintage lulz, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-18#564709 >>> http://s3.eurecom.fr/tools/screaming_channels/ ( tldr -- public demo of seekrit bitz recovery from parasitic passthrough rf )
1838281;1532977154;a111;Logged on 2014-03-18 01:49 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: you were told about 'nonstop' and continue to suggest radio transmitters. inattention, or willful ignorance ?
1838282;1532977334;asciilifeform;( correct start of thread link , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-18#564578 )
1838283;1532977334;a111;Logged on 2014-03-18 01:19 asciilifeform: ninjashogun: suggested experiment. take a radio transmitter (a household walkie-talkie will do) and transmit, with a computer sitting nearby.
1838284;1532984769;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/information-on-us-quiet-skies-program-leaks/ << Qntra - Information On US "Quiet Skies" Program Leaks
1838285;1532987287;trinque;BingoBoingo: s/no known/not known/
1838286;1532987312;BingoBoingo;ty fxd
1838287;1532987333;trinque;and s/targetsare/targets are/
1838288;1532987560;BingoBoingo;ty, fxd x3
1838289;1532988995;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/medvedev-announces-complete-reintegration-of-crimea-into-russia/ << Qntra - Medvedev Announces Complete Reintegration Of Crimea Into Russia
1838290;1533001177;mircea_popescu;wediditreddit ?
1838291;1533001999;deedbot;http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2547 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 11: Tuning and Unified API.
1838292;1533002105;asciilifeform;^ the largest patch since genesis ( >80kB ) but unfortunately could not be avoided.
1838293;1533002306;mircea_popescu;o hey. wb ffa.
1838294;1533002599;asciilifeform;!Q later tell phf plox to eat ch11 into btcbase .
1838295;1533002599;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1838296;1533004769;esthlos;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-29#1838186 << 2016-03-23 may be the longest log I've read yet. these old logs are swamping me
1838297;1533004769;a111;Logged on 2018-07-29 16:12 mircea_popescu is actually quite curious if esthlos managed to do two days yest :D
1838298;1533006671;mod6;asciilifeform: hey nice!
1838299;1533037226;deedbot;http://blog.esthlos.com/log-reading-week-4/ << esthlos - Log Reading, Week 4
1838300;1533041231;asciilifeform;!Q later tell esthlos in e.g. http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2016-03-28 you link to kako's log ; i recommend against this , it is not a faithful record of the actual text ( last yr he took to monkeying with it via perlism and possibly also manually )
1838301;1533041231;lobbesbot;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
1838302;1533041580;phf;in fact particular line http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-28#1440677 has been changed in kako's log, hxxp://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2016#1440677 spot the difference!
1838303;1533041580;a111;Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: and so, this is the end for this particular irc channel as a venue for tmsr. the irc festivities are moving over to #trilema ; with a more selective lordship list and improved tools all around. you're welcome to join - but leave the fiat mind behind, lest it drag you too back down into the swamp.
1838304;1533041580;lobbesbot;phf: Sent 10 hours and 49 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> plox to eat ch11 into btcbase .
1838305;1533041595;asciilifeform;aaha
1838306;1533041621;asciilifeform;d00d moved on to the 'smear shit on the walls' stage of his disease a while ago.
1838307;1533041656;asciilifeform;( imho a peculiar hobby for a fella sitting on ~1k btc , but i've nfi )
1838308;1533042153;phf;asciilifeform: updated
1838309;1533042168;asciilifeform;phf: ty!
1838310;1533042464;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch11_tuning_and_api << for the l0gz.
1838311;1533042483;asciilifeform;did i ever mention how phf's viewer makes patches a joy to reread !
1838312;1533042892;asciilifeform;btw i oughta mention , i had to resort to a modified vdiff.sh : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/rB9AD/?raw=true for ch11 , as the ada comment syntax causes inbandism barf with classic vdiff.sh when deleting or modifying the comment headers at the start of ffa modules
1838313;1533042937;asciilifeform;( instead of the old awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/ ... , uses awk 'm = /^(--- a\/|\+\+\+ b\/)/ ... )
1838314;1533042977;asciilifeform;this has no effect on any extant vtron ( the resulting patches are correctly formatted ) .
1838315;1533043026;asciilifeform;but folx attempting to reverse-grind ch11 with old vdiff.sh will inevitably see barf, and there is not currently any fix other than the above.
1838316;1533043040;asciilifeform;( i'd hope that new vtron format will abolish all inbandism. )
1838317;1533047780;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838315 << of course vtools sha branch vdiff produces correct output...
1838318;1533047780;a111;Logged on 2018-07-31 13:17 asciilifeform: but folx attempting to reverse-grind ch11 with old vdiff.sh will inevitably see barf, and there is not currently any fix other than the above.
1838319;1533047808;asciilifeform;right, the inbandism is in the old vdiff layer, rather than unix diff proper
1838320;1533051850;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838300 << ahahaha wut!
1838321;1533051850;a111;Logged on 2018-07-31 12:47 asciilifeform: !Q later tell esthlos in e.g. http://summaries.logs.esthlos.com/#2016-03-28 you link to kako's log ; i recommend against this , it is not a faithful record of the actual text ( last yr he took to monkeying with it via perlism and possibly also manually )
1838322;1533051916;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: very old noose: e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-24#1775301 ( he replaces all mentions of #trilema with '#fraudsters', and of mircea_popescu with something or other, i fughet, and possibly other substs )
1838323;1533051916;a111;Logged on 2018-01-24 18:13 RagnarDanneskjol: Fraudsters? Please clarify
1838324;1533051957;asciilifeform;iirc started just about a yr ago.
1838325;1533052005;diana_coman;hm, now the reading of octets from FG via EuCrypt randomly gets totally stuck and I can't even quite understand *where* ; wtf; I seem to recall someone else had some similar problem but I can't seem to find it atm; ave1 ? phf ? asciilifeform ?
1838326;1533052036;asciilifeform;diana_coman: this is immediately interesting and i'd like to replicate
1838327;1533052051;asciilifeform;diana_coman: start by making sure you don't have multiple instances reading
1838328;1533052121;diana_coman;asciilifeform, hm, that suggests maybe one read remains somehow hanging? ugh
1838329;1533052130;asciilifeform;diana_coman: is this using the code currently published in dianacoman.com ?
1838330;1533052163;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes, get eucrypt and run the tests for smg_rsa, something like ./tests 11 11 (i.e. 11 times test no 11)
1838331;1533052178;diana_coman;at times it gets stuck and not even in same place or anything
1838332;1533052193;diana_coman;fwiw I have this on smg testing server, proto-cuntoo
1838333;1533052201;diana_coman;so compiled with ave1 's gnat
1838334;1533052264;asciilifeform;just how often is 'at times' ?
1838335;1533052278;asciilifeform;i.e. does this reliably happen on both of your FG boxen ?
1838336;1533052286;asciilifeform;and with either FG
1838337;1533052316;diana_coman;so far it's been driving me crazy on that particular box, haven't had it/tried it somewhere else yet
1838338;1533052326;asciilifeform;and strictly at warmup, or after reading 2-3 GB ?
1838339;1533052327;*;diana_coman goes to read that code again maybe something is messed up there
1838340;1533052348;diana_coman;ah, quickly, no need to read 2-3 GB really
1838341;1533052364;diana_coman;thing is: it should not happen even once! wtf
1838342;1533052368;asciilifeform;well noshit
1838343;1533052395;asciilifeform;i suspect buggy tty init ( e.g. wrong baud ) , in which case the data returned is also rubbish
1838344;1533052411;diana_coman;uhm, for one thing: it's init in c code as well so..uhm
1838345;1533052412;asciilifeform;diana_coman: plz show me where you init
1838346;1533052428;diana_coman;for the other, I had the FG init already
1838347;1533052440;diana_coman;asciilifeform, smg_rsa/truerandom.c does the whole stuff really
1838348;1533052472;*;asciilifeform will look there.
1838349;1533052513;asciilifeform;diana_coman: is http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_manifest/tree/ current ?
1838350;1533052585;diana_coman;it should be, yes; as far as I can tell at a quick look at truerandom.c it is too
1838351;1533052696;asciilifeform;diana_coman: see if you get same horror on the old, non-musl box
1838352;1533052713;diana_coman;asciilifeform, ok, let me see
1838353;1533052715;asciilifeform;this will give a starting clue.
1838354;1533052748;asciilifeform;and , while you're at it, from the other FG in the musl box.
1838355;1533052763;asciilifeform;gotta rule out the possibility of a dead FG.
1838356;1533052808;asciilifeform;( i have yet to witness this wonder. but there's always a first time. )
1838357;1533052910;diana_coman;asciilifeform, fwiw I am trying to get it on my local box (non-musl) and so far it's working perfectly fine
1838358;1533052936;diana_coman;will go and try 2nd fg and other boxes
1838359;1533052950;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_manifest/tree/eucrypt/smg_rsa/truerandom.c#L84 << seems like you re-init the usb dongle every time you read. this is not recommended, i've encountered a chinese ttl plug that wedges if you init it one too many times
1838360;1533053007;diana_coman;asciilifeform, ugh; it *can* be, because yes, it gets initialised many times
1838361;1533053008;asciilifeform;( possibly can blame linux pl2303 driver )
1838362;1533053035;asciilifeform;generally you want to init it once, on coldboot.
1838363;1533053077;asciilifeform;( the exact pattern is in the nosuchlabs.com and printed manual )
1838364;1533053116;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I even have the .sh + set it in cron, yes; the thing is that code has no idea so it would logically set it up as it wants it but...
1838365;1533053140;diana_coman;anyway, let's see: you suggest I take out the init, just open and read; set it up outside and then try; can't hurt giving it a try at least
1838366;1533053142;BingoBoingo;diana_coman asciilifeform: We did recieve a pile of new USB ttl cables. Swapping the cables for fresh ones is a troubleshooting option.
1838367;1533053172;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: before you go to swap cabling, let's first see if the known sadness of pl2303 driver is the culprit.
1838368;1533053206;diana_coman;yes, and at any rate if this can /will happen on various cables or simply at 100th setting
1838369;1533053241;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i agree, this kind of thing is absolutely impermissible, and gotta get to the bottom of it.
1838370;1533053266;asciilifeform;( it is a 'wings fall off'-level problem )
1838371;1533053363;asciilifeform;from my current reading of diana_coman's code, the only major diff b/w the official manual's test scenario, and diana_coman's, is the init thing.
1838372;1533053384;asciilifeform;( nobody's yet reported a wedged FG on the standard dd-powered test. )
1838373;1533053388;diana_coman;well, 1st test: changed to 2nd FG on musl-system; checked and it reads fine with dd from console; ran the tests of eucrypt , it read 4 and then it got stuck
1838374;1533053406;phf;diana_coman: haven't had problems with usb reads, i've struggled with getting octets across ffi boundary before, which is probably what you're remembering re my work
1838375;1533053426;asciilifeform;diana_coman: can almost certainly rule out iron problem then
1838376;1533053432;diana_coman;phf, ah, might be, thanks
1838377;1533053455;diana_coman;asciilifeform, and on a second run it got stuck after doing 9 init+reads, ugh
1838378;1533053487;asciilifeform;diana_coman: comment out the init, and fire a shot.
1838379;1533053530;asciilifeform;btw you will probably want to make a timeout mechanism, to ring alarm if FG ever does die, rather than hanging
1838380;1533053629;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I commented out the set_usb_attributes so basically it opens and calls fcntl to make it blocking but that's it; it took a bit longer to get stuck but it still did
1838381;1533053637;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_manifest/tree/eucrypt/smg_rsa/truerandom.c#L65 << incidentally this is erroneous. a correctly-inited FG will never produce interrupt ( the tty ~must not~ interpret 0x03 as control char, it must return all octets verbatim )
1838382;1533053652;asciilifeform;if tty ever produces interrupt, ipso facto FG init was not successful
1838383;1533053695;diana_coman;right you are; not that it ever went there
1838384;1533053700;asciilifeform;diana_coman: when these are stuck, how do you kill'em ?
1838385;1533053705;diana_coman;ctrl-c..
1838386;1533053709;asciilifeform;ahahaha
1838387;1533053713;asciilifeform;i think we have the answer
1838388;1533053745;asciilifeform;unix i/o is retarded, if blocking read blocks, it gives you a zombie process , and the next process you start that tried to read same tty, will also become zombie
1838389;1533053762;diana_coman;ugh
1838390;1533053774;asciilifeform;to properly debug this item , you will sadly have to restart the box .
1838391;1533053797;diana_coman;so uhm, just resetting the tty is not enough?
1838392;1533053809;asciilifeform;nope
1838393;1533053818;diana_coman;omfg resetting the test server each time
1838394;1533053838;asciilifeform;well not each time, but to see if the 'init breaks the dongle' hypothesis is troo.
1838395;1533053969;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform did not write the linux i/o subsystem ; nor the pl2303 kernel mod ; and will readily admit that they are sad. and if anyone has idea for some other means to connect a 115200 baud box to machine, that does not suffer from the weakness of these, i'm as always all ears )
1838396;1533054051;diana_coman;oook, let's see, waiting on reboot
1838397;1533054060;asciilifeform;this being said, if you implement a timeout for the blocking reads, you will not have zombie problem.
1838398;1533054082;diana_coman;asciilifeform, it does sound like I'll have to
1838399;1533054085;mircea_popescu;this is pretty lulzy.
1838400;1533054087;asciilifeform;a FG that produces , under normal conditions, 0 output for, say, 30 seconds, is indicative of dead iron.
1838401;1533054095;asciilifeform;and ought to ring all of the alarm bells.
1838402;1533054107;mircea_popescu;in other news, phf hangs out in #fraudsters!
1838403;1533054111;asciilifeform;lol
1838404;1533054127;mircea_popescu;* Topic for #fraudsters is: The order of the day is to put an end to the machinations of the purveyors of injustice, to control them without dominating them.
1838405;1533054127;mircea_popescu;* Topic for #fraudsters set by phf!~phf@unaffiliated/phf at Tue Jul 31 10:12:25 2018
1838406;1533054143;asciilifeform;pretty great
1838407;1533054151;mircea_popescu;apparently this just happened.
1838408;1533054155;phf;:)
1838409;1533054158;mircea_popescu;lel
1838410;1533054197;asciilifeform;'на каждую хитрую жопу, всегда найдется свой болт с резьбой'(tm)(r)(proverb)
1838411;1533054206;mircea_popescu;phf if i may be so bold, why "control" without "dominate" ? seems these be terms of art, what do they mean ?
1838412;1533054215;asciilifeform;(~= 'for erry smart-arse, a threaded cock will be found' )
1838413;1533054507;diana_coman;right, machine is freshly up;I'll first run the .sh script just in case and try it with dd
1838414;1533054671;diana_coman;so, the set_usb_attributes was commented out; I cleaned everything and did a fresh build; ran the tests and... it read 3 octets and then it blocked
1838415;1533054700;diana_coman;rather: it read 3 times (it was 4 octets each time )
1838416;1533054901;diana_coman;basically if I don't manage to reproduce it on any other machine, it would seem it's potentially to do with that specific system
1838417;1533054916;mircea_popescu;o.O
1838418;1533054929;mircea_popescu;aren't i glad we tested all this.
1838419;1533054932;phf;mircea_popescu: it's an adam wieshaupt quote, and i take its meaning to be in line with the stereotypes about his organization, control through influence rather than direct domination
1838420;1533054950;phf;in this particular case though, it's a joke
1838421;1533054998;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, well, it *does* answer that question: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827889
1838422;1533054998;a111;Logged on 2018-06-20 20:33 ben_vulpes: diana_coman: why does it need to be wholly separate machine? i think something might have flown over my head
1838423;1533055015;phf;unfortunately the secret societ of illuminated fraudsters managed to stay secret all 5 minutes, before being publically exposed in the logs
1838424;1533055058;mircea_popescu;phf my problem is this : on one hand i'm trying, in jules' words REALLY REALLY HARD, to not be the fatass in http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-30#938314 snuffing the life out of everything ; on the other i just can't manage to distinguish the proposed "x without y" from the broad scheme that ruined western civilisation, "have wife without beating her".
1838425;1533055058;a111;Logged on 2014-11-30 06:31 mircea_popescu: like the stuff discussed above re usg agency redhat, fuycking up linux. EXACTLY the stiuation of the giant ruining a chair.
1838426;1533055258;phf;mircea_popescu: well, we had conversations about esoteric societies in the past, and there's a reason for why the logs are public and everything that follows
1838427;1533055266;diana_coman;ofc if dd never chokes, dunno, will look at how they do it
1838428;1533055316;phf;mircea_popescu: to be honest i didn't read into it past the roleplaying humor, but upon immediate reflection, your objection makes equally obvious sense
1838429;1533055377;phf;henceforth any attempts to expose the activities of the secret society of illuminated fraudsters shall be denounced as a ravings of delusional paranoids
1838430;1533055382;mircea_popescu;lol
1838431;1533055401;diana_coman;I honestly thought that was the main part of phf's joke there : the "control without dominate" in the spirit of modern times
1838432;1533055423;mircea_popescu;to quote dr.a , i have no real sense of humour, it's software-emulated.
1838433;1533055446;mircea_popescu;diana_coman do you recall that lulz btw ? "nu-i ardelean, n-are rabdare adevarata, ii emulata-n soft"
1838434;1533055473;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, I don't recall it but sounds apt (as dr. a does wherever I read him)
1838435;1533055474;phf;diana_coman: we will take credit for it (also we'll take retroactive credit for the frequent mysterious reboots of asciilifeform's machines)
1838436;1533055490;asciilifeform;lol
1838437;1533055546;*;diana_coman takes a break from the usb reading wtf
1838438;1533055567;mircea_popescu;rotate plug pi rad and try again!
1838439;1533055921;mircea_popescu;diana_coman http://trilema.com/2010/o-institutie-culturala/#comment-21292 << found!
1838440;1533055992;mircea_popescu;(the above, for the rotaku club, is a pinnacle of intertextual metatextuality the likes french culture barely ever managed, and anglonline never did.)
1838441;1533056165;mircea_popescu;now i'm stuck re-reading all that... and esthlos thinks he has fucking problems. wait until you learn romanian, buster.
1838442;1533056842;BingoBoingo;<diana_coman> basically if I don't manage to reproduce it on any other machine, it would seem it's potentially to do with that specific system << Let me know if you want a pair of hands.
1838443;1533057252;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838388 << this.
1838444;1533057252;a111;Logged on 2018-07-31 16:15 asciilifeform: unix i/o is retarded, if blocking read blocks, it gives you a zombie process , and the next process you start that tried to read same tty, will also become zombie
1838445;1533057319;mircea_popescu;zombie is not just (as an inexistent, imaginary "manual" mentally reconstructed from the pile of gunk they published purports to hint) an entry in the table to permit the caller to clean up correctly. it is ALL SORTS of things, and generally of the getting in the way kind.
1838446;1533057630;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the astonishing bit isn't even that system5 unix had this nonsense, but that the linux derps faithfully re-created it.
1838447;1533057640;mircea_popescu;yes.
1838448;1533057684;mircea_popescu;in fact, the concept of "zombie" is perhaps the most indicated ear of stupid to shake the whole echafaudage by.
1838449;1533057722;asciilifeform;somewhere near the top of the list, right below 'gotta check EVERY system call for failure erry time in user coad'
1838450;1533057766;mircea_popescu;that's more of an absence, see. generally psychiatrists don't attempt to work with what the diseased mind fails to produce, but instead focus on the positive malfunctions, the productive sort. "tell me more about the little gremlins"
1838451;1533057780;mircea_popescu;"zombies, really."
1838452;1533057785;asciilifeform;if diseased mind fails to produce impulse to visit toilet instead of filling own pants, then yes, work with.
1838453;1533058249;asciilifeform;unix represents not merely bed-pissing, but just about ~ideological~ pant-shitting mentality.
1838454;1533058258;asciilifeform;'i will shit, you will clean'
1838455;1533058278;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, will do, thank you;
1838456;1533058312;asciilifeform;'and for extra sport, i will also shit where you cannot clean'
1838457;1533058329;diana_coman;mircea_popescu, ahaha dadatroll; but now I see why it didn't even ring a bell at all as I probably missed the comments section there/didn't follow it
1838458;1533058349;mircea_popescu;it stuck with me apparently.
1838459;1533058427;diana_coman;I thought Dr A said that of you actually!
1838460;1533058580;asciilifeform;btw if anyone wants to experimentally observe the zombie effect, can do it with ordinary gnu 'screen' -- when opened on a tty with blocking i/o, will routinely leave zombie turd instead of properly terminating, then hours later you find that tty is wedged, and discover 9 copies of 'screen' in process table.
1838461;1533058587;mircea_popescu;ahahaha
1838462;1533058603;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's happened to me.
1838463;1533058626;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: happened to me '9000' times when testing FG, and earlier iron.
1838464;1533058662;mircea_popescu;myeah.
1838465;1533058678;asciilifeform;( naturally the imbecile kernel doesn't actually test whether something is riding on the tty prior to opening, 'why would we' )
1838466;1533058693;mircea_popescu;i'd settle for it just closing it.
1838467;1533058729;asciilifeform;afaik to this day no such provision in any unixlike.
1838468;1533058747;mircea_popescu;but imo this correct behaviour was elided specifically because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-27#1530346 reason, ie "our permission model is fucked, if we do a close-before-open it makes it too obvious"
1838469;1533058747;a111;Logged on 2016-08-27 15:03 mircea_popescu: "if i make it what i think it should be it crashes"
1838470;1533058803;asciilifeform;recall , similarly, koch's 'fix' for his mpi bug.
1838471;1533058818;asciilifeform;'if i actually fix it, would have to admit that it was buggy'
1838472;1533058849;asciilifeform;good % of unixland, by weight, consists of this.
1838473;1533059240;diana_coman;asciilifeform, btw there was this: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833792
1838474;1533059240;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 13:49 diana_coman: asciilifeform, BingoBoingo access to box & config confirmed; FG on ttysUSB0 had a wobble at first and I don't understand why: I ran the stty -F /dev/ttyUSB0 115200 raw -echo -echoe -echok and then tried dd iflag=fullblock if=/dev/ttyUSB0 | hexdump -C but nothing came up; then I ran the stty on usb1 as well and tried again and it...worked; any idea wtf was that at first?
1838475;1533059283;diana_coman;if anything, it would suggest that even dd can choke there
1838476;1533059303;asciilifeform;suggests oddity in pl2303 mod
1838477;1533059316;asciilifeform;diana_coman: does your boot-time sh init both dongles currently ?
1838478;1533059325;diana_coman;asciilifeform, yes
1838479;1533059367;asciilifeform;interesting
1838480;1533059387;diana_coman;at that time I did not yet have the boot-time sh init though; I suppose I can add this to test sheet
1838481;1533059680;asciilifeform;btw also worth trying the item listed in 'Tip for Linux Users' at http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html .
1838482;1533059709;asciilifeform;( some usb2 hub chipsets behave dysfunctionally with pl2303 )
1838483;1533063864;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2018/07/entire-police-department-quits-in-massachusetts/ << Qntra - Entire Police Department Quits In Massachusetts
1838484;1533065856;asciilifeform;'their poorly fitting bulletproof vests are beyond their expiration dates' << lolwat
1838485;1533066623;BingoBoingo;The bigger wtf is what did they need a police force for? Place is clearly sized for a part time constable or two.
1838486;1533067038;diana_coman;asciilifeform, that tip says problems handling more than 2 but I have...2?
1838487;1533067087;diana_coman;at any rate, updates so far are relatively few: can't reproduce it on different machine (though I still have a few to test...); it IS easily reproduced even with dd on smg test server
1838488;1533067118;diana_coman;basically as the "wobble" initially reported: if only one fg is set, then first read via dd hangs just the same
1838489;1533067161;diana_coman;I would say it looks more and more like some issue with pl2303 mod
1838490;1533067217;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, how long would it take to get there and unplug one of the FG to have a test with only one?
1838491;1533067614;BingoBoingo;<diana_coman> BingoBoingo, how long would it take to get there and unplug one of the FG to have a test with only one? << I could go there and be back witing an hour
1838492;1533067758;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, wait a bit, at least to know if there is something else to try if you go there
1838493;1533067785;diana_coman;as it is, it will have to wait until tomorrow anyway as atm I'm a bit at a loss wtf
1838494;1533067857;BingoBoingo;Well, one other thing we can do is switch one or both usb ttl cables. As mentioned earlier one of the cables is the "blue" style that shipped with earlier FUCKGOATs http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-12#1833809
1838495;1533067857;a111;Logged on 2018-07-12 14:06 BingoBoingo: On this box one of the FG cables is the blue guy that came with my personal FG, the other is the new style black snake
1838496;1533067975;diana_coman;hm, before switching cables I can switch order of init and see if there's any difference anyway
1838497;1533068199;BingoBoingo;Aite
1838498;1533068891;diana_coman;well, doing stty -F /dev/ttyUSB1 first so far (2 times, so machine rebooted in between...) at least had dd going well
1838499;1533068937;diana_coman;hard to say if that is more than a glitch or not though
1838500;1533069043;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, do you know whether smg main server has the black snake cables or what?
1838501;1533069325;asciilifeform;i was about to suggest, to swap both cables , see if these can be ruled out
1838502;1533069394;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838486 << i've only ever observed pl2303-specific headache when 3+ operating ( and even then , consisted of slow, rather than halted, signal )
1838503;1533069394;a111;Logged on 2018-07-31 19:57 diana_coman: asciilifeform, that tip says problems handling more than 2 but I have...2?
1838504;1533069524;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'blue' is theoretically same chip, but from a diff chinese seller ( fwiw asciilifeform's desk FG operates from a 'blue' )
1838505;1533071041;diana_coman;right, I'm anyway currently in need of a break and at a loss otherwise on this; so BingoBoingo at your leisure, please change the cables and leave only one FG plugged in for now; I'll get some sleep in first, so there's no hurry - anytime within next 10 hours works fine
1838506;1533071083;asciilifeform;diana_coman: i'm gonna try and replicate here in the torture room, with your proggy -- i have both cable types here
1838507;1533071146;diana_coman;asciilifeform, I doubt it's the cables really but can't hurt to rule that out
1838508;1533071239;diana_coman;a bit of reading on this famous pl2303 does suggest all sorts of "hanging" issues but I haven't found anything clearly applicable so far
1838509;1533071263;asciilifeform;diana_coman: ftr i am still on the lookout for anything like a practicable replacement for pl2303
1838510;1533071266;diana_coman;and other than the weird fact that read simply blocks randomly, I don't know
1838511;1533071285;asciilifeform;( the 2 constraints -- 1) ~not ever ftdi~ 2) no flashable chips plox )
1838512;1533071393;diana_coman;sadly I don't know of any replacement to suggest, no
1838513;1533071443;diana_coman;also, the fact that dd *also* hangs at time there is a big red flag
1838514;1533071451;asciilifeform;indeed
1838515;1533071503;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, do you need me to shut down the box?
1838516;1533071522;asciilifeform;the possible suspects , so far -- 1) ttl dongles 2) hub 3) musl userland , somehow
1838517;1533071537;asciilifeform;( kernel can be ruled out, both s.mg machines currently have afaik identical kernel )
1838518;1533071572;asciilifeform;rather, ruled out as primary cause, could easily be the ultimate barf source in conjunction with 1 / 2
1838519;1533071576;diana_coman;asciilifeform, on smg main server I ran only dd although I never had any problems nor wobbles nor anything with the fgs there
1838520;1533071590;diana_coman;and I can't really reset that
1838521;1533071623;asciilifeform;i'ma test on dulap also, it has identical fg/cabling setup to primary s.mg box
1838522;1533071696;asciilifeform;diana_coman: is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-31#1838330 an exact description of the test ?
1838523;1533071696;a111;Logged on 2018-07-31 15:49 diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, get eucrypt and run the tests for smg_rsa, something like ./tests 11 11 (i.e. 11 times test no 11)
1838524;1533071814;diana_coman;asciilifeform, that's literally what ended up as main test because convenient: it attempts to generate 11 "dirty float" random numbers using 4 random octets from fg; first number there is number of repetitions; second number chooses what test to run (if you run only ./tests 11 without 2nd number it will print the list of what it knows to do)
1838525;1533071830;diana_coman;it ~always hung before finishing the 11 runs even
1838526;1533071842;diana_coman;occasionally it needed a few more
1838527;1533071851;asciilifeform;ok , should suffice for test, i'ma report tomorrow .
1838528;1533071865;diana_coman;thanks, I'm off to sleep
1838529;1533071871;asciilifeform;goodnight diana_coman
1838530;1533071997;BingoBoingo;<diana_coman> BingoBoingo, do you need me to shut down the box? << I will if you want me to pull it to swap cables.
1838531;1533072018;diana_coman;BingoBoingo, k, will shut it down
1838532;1533072091;BingoBoingo;Will have it ready <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, do you know whether smg main server has the black snake cables or what? << It does.
1838533;1533077953;BingoBoingo;diana_coman: Machine is ready, both cables swapped, but only one FUCKGOAT plugged in.
1838534;1533079520;asciilifeform;lol BingoBoingo , it's still plural, sorta like 'scissors'
1838535;1533079531;asciilifeform;( tho perhaps, a FG with only 1 rng plugged in, could be a 'fuckgoat' )
1838536;1533079559;asciilifeform;1 scissor, 1 pant...
1838537;1533080067;asciilifeform;in other noose, since 1st time i asked the q in 2013, appears that there is ~to this day~ not such a thing as a 1Ghz oscilloscope with any linux support whatsoever.
1838538;1533080110;asciilifeform;not for 100 $, not for 100, not for 10,000.
1838539;1533080186;asciilifeform;1000. whichever.
1838540;1533080256;asciilifeform;sorta hilarious , this, 'here's pc with very spiffy 6G/s pcie bus, for 100$, but if you want to connect something useful to that, haha, what do you think this is, the fyootoor'
1838541;1533080412;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/#selection-549.0-553.4 ie, "consumer market"
1838542;1533080433;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: note, not in the i-dun-give-half-a-fuck-what-it-costs market, either
1838543;1533080440;asciilifeform;not the 250k agilent either.
1838544;1533080450;mircea_popescu;those don't use linux.
1838545;1533080457;asciilifeform;( these, for extra laughter, come with ~built in windows~ in the instrument itself ! )
1838546;1533080493;mircea_popescu;aha
1838547;1533080519;asciilifeform;so if you want a 1G/s scope with os where you actually have some control of the timing ( for e.g. real time phase sampling ) you're 100% phuqed.
1838548;1533080609;*;asciilifeform wouldn't consider , say, 1btc , for a ~sane~ scope, to be unreasonable
1838549;1533080712;asciilifeform;( in this context, 'sane' ~= sits on pcie bus, and ADC turnaround is fixed # of bus cycles, preferably 1. and documented i/o. )
1838550;1533080726;mircea_popescu;possibly firmware of one could be rewritten, liberating the item and saving you a coin
1838551;1533080753;asciilifeform;doubtful, all of the examples i've been able to peek into, are full of xilinx.
1838552;1533080783;mircea_popescu;heh
1838553;1533080801;asciilifeform;and they ~all do shenanigans with multiple slow ADCs masquerading as 1 fast one
1838554;1533080808;asciilifeform;i.e. are pressed shitboard , rather than hardwood.
1838555;1533080891;mircea_popescu;yes wee
1838556;1533080915;asciilifeform;i've turned up some hints that usg actually interferes with the ADC makers -- 'ohnoez, moscow could use fast ADC in radar set'
1838557;1533080942;asciilifeform;they're actually named by name on usg 'export ban' list.
1838558;1533080971;asciilifeform;( how exactly this ties the hands of, e.g. , taiwanese fabs, i do not presume to know , but result is evident )
1838559;1533081122;BingoBoingo;<asciilifeform> lol BingoBoingo , it's still plural, sorta like 'scissors' << apologies