1620268;1488326409;asciilifeform;lolk 1620269;1488326410;ben_vulpes;move, drive further, waste more time in cars, depreciate ice assets faster, depreciate spinal column faster 1620270;1488326423;ben_vulpes;all things i want more of in my life, just like regular americans 1620271;1488326446;mircea_popescu;move dude. not fucking commute. move. 1620272;1488326459;ben_vulpes;talking about driving to get the compost. 1620273;1488326459;asciilifeform;while we're on subj, what exactly stops ben_vulpes from ordering his minions around via a net pipe ? 1620274;1488326463;BingoBoingo;Well, imagine you are the tender root of a delicious vegetable plant. Would you rather cuddle up to soft peatmoss extracted from fridgid canada or rough coir that feels like sack cloth from tropics 1620275;1488326485;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: metaphor is rather thick, i cannot see through it 1620276;1488326518;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what minions? what order? 1620277;1488326539;mircea_popescu;he's merely suggesting coconuts migrate. 1620278;1488326541;asciilifeform;your software co. ben_vulpes 1620279;1488326549;asciilifeform;why do you have to ~go~ to it 1620280;1488326579;ben_vulpes;raging sea of dopamine at haus is difficult to carve focus space out of 1620281;1488326580;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: Rub handful of peat against forearm, repeat with coir. Note which gives aggressive ropeburn like injury. 1620282;1488326596;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: aaah so the usual wife-escape lol 1620283;1488326610;mircea_popescu;is dopamine the good one ? 1620284;1488326616;ben_vulpes;child is fairly engaging too. 1620285;1488326622;*;asciilifeform would not believe that this is a thing, if he had not worked with at least a dozen of d00dz who admitted to it 1620286;1488326638;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in college, hope and desperation meet : http://68.media.tumblr.com/78ceeb12e436ee751be8b934d5724392/tumblr_mo8b74ORIF1suscy8o1_1280.jpg 1620287;1488326639;*;ben_vulpes is weak, especially to joys of flesh and fatherhood 1620288;1488326647;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/02/28/the-contemporary-classic-car-phenomenon-explained/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The Contemporary Classic Car Phenomenon, explained. 1620289;1488326662;ben_vulpes;escape is a rather mean characterization, asciilifeform 1620290;1488326740;mircea_popescu;o look, trump to bring back non-niggered nasa ? 1620291;1488326774;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: at one point city was digging up water pipes on my street, drill all day long, i would go elsewhere. how is this not 'escape' ? 1620292;1488326787;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: waiwu 1620293;1488326788;asciilifeform;t 1620294;1488326806;asciilifeform;from where he will get it? time machine ? 1620295;1488326812;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: would you rather go watch pipes be dug out of the ground than whatever it is you went elsewhere to do? 1620296;1488326826;mircea_popescu;wherever politicians get things. the labels vat. 1620297;1488326845;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: did not only not care to sit and watch, but to listen, hence went elsewhere. which from ben_vulpes's description, he is doing also, but from wife, not from drills 1620298;1488326860;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aaah yes. 1620299;1488326875;asciilifeform;догоним и перегоним. 1620300;1488326914;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: to entertain your scenario, i go elsewhere because i'd rather watch the big hydraulics. 1620301;1488326926;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i admit, i watched for a spell. 1620302;1488326938;ben_vulpes;i would watch all day. 1620303;1488326941;asciilifeform;but once you've seen 3 sections of pipe replaced, you've seen'em all 1620304;1488326966;mircea_popescu;supposedly it's different with kids. 1620305;1488326980;asciilifeform;however i probably ~could~ (and at one point did) watch planes take off , all day. so point taken. 1620306;1488327017;ben_vulpes;not the pipes necessarily, but the garden; dog; wife; child; engines of my own... 1620307;1488327821;BingoBoingo;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/llYjE/?raw=true 1620308;1488327834;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2017-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2017 Report 1620309;1488327927;BingoBoingo;Moar posts than last month, less words. Still recalibrating to post-Hussein Bahamas lulz 1620310;1488328121;asciilifeform;in other lelz, http://www.socialmatter.net/2017/02/13/communism-fondly-remembered-longing-tradition 1620311;1488328131;mircea_popescu;ahahaha what. 1620312;1488328320;asciilifeform;'...by the time that the communist states actually fell, they weren’t to the left of the American mainstream: they were to the right.' 1620313;1488328337;mircea_popescu;and thoroughly reviled for their verbose impotence. 1620314;1488328361;mircea_popescu;also, "american mainstream" is a fake news construction. it exists in no place, certainly not the us. 1620315;1488328373;asciilifeform;turns out there are worse things than impotently verbose brezhnev, whod'vethunkit 1620316;1488328376;mircea_popescu;it can be found the same place the "kingom of heavens" can be found. 1620317;1488328562;asciilifeform;it exists in the same way that the weight of mt.everest exists, even if there is no scale to weight it on. 1620318;1488328571;asciilifeform;*weigh it 1620319;1488328592;mircea_popescu;absolutely not. 1620320;1488328608;mircea_popescu;it exists strictly in the way "the heavenly legions" existed, to keep suleyman from constantinople. 1620321;1488328625;mircea_popescu;plenty of rank imbeciles died with the firm conviction that they exist ; and all the better. 1620322;1488328637;asciilifeform;you can make a true statement about it -- e.g., 'eisenhower era's american mainstream did not include tulpas and transpuppies; obummer's -- does' 1620323;1488328660;mircea_popescu;hardly. 1620324;1488328674;mircea_popescu;this is no more of a true statement than "pin can hold 40 angels but only 3 seraphims" 1620325;1488328737;asciilifeform;statements of ~psychiatric~ fact are tricky (see also thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579090 ) 1620326;1488328737;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 15:31 asciilifeform: 'well ~i~! know now that i'm not an acorn. but do THE SQUIRRELS know??????' 1620327;1488328742;mircea_popescu;but in any case, unless and until you read it in trilema, it can not be said to be part of a mainstream of any kind. 1620328;1488328769;mircea_popescu;misinformed ninnies may be confused as to the exact spelling of "trilema", which is a sad testament of the poor quality of public education available to them and naught more. 1620329;1488328910;asciilifeform;just earlier mircea_popescu had a thread re 'in 1970s chix did not yet wash properly' -- this is distinct from 'cultural mainstream' ? how so 1620330;1488328922;mircea_popescu;how is poor hygiene cultural ? 1620331;1488328951;mircea_popescu;they're uncivilised louts ; today as whenever. it is after all a fucking colony, not a real place, neh ? 1620332;1488328997;asciilifeform;cultural as in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537241 ? 1620333;1488328997;a111;Logged on 2016-09-08 15:31 mircea_popescu: ie, young brazillian chick WILL have to have her cooking checked for shit, because apparently wash hands is not universally comprehended in brazil. 1620334;1488329031;mircea_popescu;to understand our anthropology basics : if the item has mass, it is a proper subject of civilisation ; if the item doth not have mass, it is a matter of culture. 1620335;1488329047;asciilifeform;the louse is small, but mass, he has. 1620336;1488329055;mircea_popescu;thereby, gravestones, civilisation, poetry, culture, engines, civilisation, cooking recipes, culture, and so following. 1620337;1488329095;asciilifeform;the habit that guarantees the louse, however, has no mass. 1620338;1488329133;mircea_popescu;stupidity is not culture in any case. 1620339;1488329150;mircea_popescu;you can't speak of "the native culture" for exactly this reason. the indians have no culture, and inasmuch as they do not, they're not people. 1620340;1488329154;mircea_popescu;which is why they burn so well. 1620341;1488329228;mircea_popescu;the ~presence~ of artefacts doth make a civilisation ; the same presence of notions makes a culture. the absence of objects does not make "the alternative civilisation of africa consisting of not having anything". absence is not a thing. 1620342;1488329246;mircea_popescu;chick that has no fucking idea she should wash isn't part of "the unwashed culture", she's part of nothing. 1620343;1488329273;asciilifeform;'lice are fact of life' is a notion, not merely the absence of one 1620344;1488329293;mircea_popescu;sounds more like a fancy. 1620345;1488329320;mircea_popescu;do you have any ? the planet uranus is also "a fact of life", in some distant sense. 1620346;1488329451;asciilifeform;if i had to pick between, e.g., jonathan swift's, lice, or the life of homo walmarticus, it would not be a hard choice to go with the former 1620347;1488329476;mircea_popescu;it's not altogether clear you've there depicted anymore than an escherian stairwell. 1620348;1488329503;mircea_popescu;perhaps "if you had to" you'd climb to infinity on the left rather than descend to infinity on the right. but inasmuch as it's a nonsensical construction, the counterfactual will stay nonfactual. 1620349;1488329539;mircea_popescu;you understand this, yes, not anything that can be said necessarily means something. 1620350;1488329615;asciilifeform;i'm still trying to puzzle out if i even disagree with mircea_popescu , upstack 1620351;1488329624;mircea_popescu;ha-ha! 1620352;1488329630;mircea_popescu;the one true merit of philosophy. 1620353;1488329841;mircea_popescu;anyway, the importance of cutting short the gypsy's pretense that he lives in an alt-country ; the grubfilth's pretense that he has an alt-hygiene, the neoprotestant's pretense that he has an alt-religion (discoivered it himself, he did!) and so on is key. a "vegan" is not someone who "has an alternative cookbook" but an imbecile who doesn't know how and what to eat. and so on. 1620354;1488329869;asciilifeform;dunno that all of the barbarians had ~same~ barbarism, tho. and you need a word to refer to the differences. 1620355;1488329875;mircea_popescu;the young girl is not "an alternate woman" but a not-yet-woman. 1620356;1488329909;asciilifeform;if some women grew from girls, and others - from abused iguanas, we would probably keep around a word to refer to the 2 types 1620357;1488329911;mircea_popescu;the etymology of the very word is instructive. barbarism comes from the greek hurrdurr, and it literally as well as onomatopoetically denotes that ... they do not have a thing. 1620358;1488329924;asciilifeform;^ kindergarten basic 1620359;1488329938;asciilifeform;but the greeks only had access to a few types of hurrdurr 1620360;1488329945;mircea_popescu;they went to india. 1620361;1488329971;asciilifeform;and rome went to china. it ~didn't take. 1620362;1488329977;mircea_popescu;i dunno that anyone ever met more kinds. 1620363;1488329979;mircea_popescu;fucking bactria ffs. 1620364;1488330002;mircea_popescu;the question was as to how many kinds they met. it is altogether likely alexander is the one men who met most kinds of barbarians. 1620365;1488330014;asciilifeform;seems plausible. 1620366;1488330030;mircea_popescu;if nothing else, the anecdote that his perception was so flattened through experience he failed on first pass to comprehend actual monkeys are not physically barbarians just like all the others should be dispositive. 1620367;1488330037;asciilifeform;maybe hernan cortes beat him. 1620368;1488330043;mircea_popescu;maybe. 1620369;1488330608;mircea_popescu;but be this as it may, i can't distinguish nor am i inclined to distinguish j supran's pretense that he engages in "science" from random wanna-be-trilema online publication's pretense that it describes "the mainstream" from random wonderdiet late night cable sleazemarketer's "salvation cuisine" from any of the rest of the gunk. they are exactly the same thing, and the word to denote them exists already. barbar. 1620370;1488330695;asciilifeform;this is what 'for entomologists only' is about 1620371;1488330703;mircea_popescu;justabout. 1620372;1488330738;asciilifeform;to 'civilian' -- 'ew, bugs'; but to the d00d who has to pick the right type of organophosphate to spray -- they are 1,001 species. 1620373;1488330767;mircea_popescu;im not even sure any sort of meaningful speciation has yet been either found, described or howsoever vaguely proposed. 1620374;1488330809;mircea_popescu;i mean the kitchen cockroach is not kitchen cockroach sp as opposed to bedroom cockroach just because that's where they happened to be captured. 1620375;1488330844;mircea_popescu;there has to be some sort of definite difference in something, legs, mandibula, reproductive organs, something somewhere must allow classification in the proper sense to have a classification. 1620376;1488330925;mircea_popescu;if we took samantha cocks or whatever her name was and made her "a scientist" and took the supurating jeoffrey and made him "an engineer", they'd what ? go right to it without skipping a beat, that's what the "revolving door" even denotes. 1620377;1488330929;asciilifeform;at one point it was possible to distinguish, at the very least, dextro- from laevo-rotary cockroaches - e.g., the 'ten things canned ammo vendors don't want you to know! and the forty methods of instant prayer healing with colloidal silver!' -- vs -- 'save AFRICA!!1 from climate!' 1620378;1488330932;mircea_popescu;"there's only one bug in socialism" 1620379;1488330985;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am not entirely sure that ability to distinguish wasn't more of a symptom of the cockroach working than anything else. "i can distinguish tarantula that bit me from tarantula that did not" is scarcely a quote after linnaeus. 1620380;1488331041;asciilifeform;the two groups described virtually never meet , in usa, they have separate lolmarts to shop in, separate fishwraps to read, etc. 1620381;1488331051;mircea_popescu;different, how ? corporations, both, trying to advertise, both, hiring the same fucking tv crews, pr agencies, what is the specific difference ? 1620382;1488331093;mircea_popescu;man fired from one can become part of the other and back and forth forever, "i just work here" etcetera. there's no substance i can discern to the proposed classification whatsoever. 1620383;1488331115;asciilifeform;was thinking of the inmates, not the jailers 1620384;1488331117;mircea_popescu;can you imagine deposed roman emperor moving to china to become confucian scholar ? 1620385;1488331124;asciilifeform;mno 1620386;1488331131;mircea_popescu;well then... 1620387;1488331142;asciilifeform;point! 1620388;1488331165;mircea_popescu;what, because one set eats at fastfood and other set eats at fastfood they are now different ? words may be powerful, but they're not this fucking powerful already. 1620389;1488331297;asciilifeform;incidentally, i gotta wonder, who specifically is responsible for the 'fourty-one things THEY DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW about $idiocy' crapolade that has displaced ~all other ads on www ? it even exists in ru . 1620390;1488331319;mircea_popescu;the "metrics" delusion. 1620391;1488331334;asciilifeform;but same idiocy, on ~every~ 'mainstream' www. 1620392;1488331339;mircea_popescu;at some point when the "web community" faggots were trying to get round two of dotcom bubble inflated with "web 2.0" and similar gimmicks, 1620393;1488331341;asciilifeform;not simply similar, but ~same~ 1620394;1488331347;mircea_popescu;they put out the goebbelsian lie that "web is measurable" 1620395;1488331368;mircea_popescu;it most patently is not, in contrast to anything else - which is measurable, but meaninglessly so, the web is not measurable fucking period. 1620396;1488331373;mircea_popescu;this turned into a fashion. 1620397;1488331417;mircea_popescu;and by that fashion, little tidbits of text were "Scored" through you know, SCIENTIFIC !!11 process like "ab testing" (i kid you not, they all do the same basic statistics wronglyt inthe same ways) 1620398;1488331425;mircea_popescu;and it must have been the face of the dice that fell up. 1620399;1488331440;asciilifeform;nuts. 1620400;1488331470;mircea_popescu;but this is, no histrionics, no rhetorics, no exaggeration, my expert, considered and final view on the matter. 1620401;1488331486;asciilifeform;the disconnect from actual 'turkey usd' reality must be total. 1620402;1488331492;mircea_popescu;they "ran some tests" in the manner that gave us "hillary is looking past trump" and this was the result. 1620403;1488331496;mircea_popescu;everyone else just cribbed it. 1620404;1488331500;asciilifeform;not even 'severe', as in a schizophrenic's disconnect, but total, as in vegetable. 1620405;1488331509;mircea_popescu;pretty much. 1620406;1488331516;mircea_popescu;to quote that isaac dude. 1620407;1488331591;mircea_popescu;this is the power of the lazy retard, someone somewhere once counted airplanes, they got the conclusion they're msotly full, and everyone's just mindlessly repeating it hence. as per http://trilema.com/2014/a-practical-exercise-for-people-who-cant-afford-airfare/ 1620408;1488331621;mircea_popescu;and a very fine point in case here, from my own personal experience, is that xapo sad faggot, wences casares. 1620409;1488331633;mircea_popescu;he came to my country, introduced himself as "an investor", and made some statements. 1620410;1488331674;mircea_popescu;i had since opportunity to verify all of them, and they are all false. he's as much of a businessman as any random redditard, which specifically includes pirate, the silk road dork, etcetera. 1620411;1488331697;mircea_popescu;this is the entirety of everyone. stallman is not some sort of graybeard, he's a sad fuck who lied about what laptop setup he is using. 1620412;1488331707;mircea_popescu;koch is not some coder, he's a sad fuck who lies about where he gets the code. 1620413;1488331723;mircea_popescu;hanno boeck is not some sort of journalist, and generally speaking nobody has any ground to stand on ~whatsoever~. at all. 1620414;1488331781;mircea_popescu;and i do mean this. nobody. tom cook isn't a fucking ceo, and if i replaced him with hillary's daughter there'd be no perceptible difference anywhere. 1620415;1488331811;mircea_popescu;there's nothing andressen has to contribute to any discussion. if you want copy/paste "ugc" you can just as well use google "ai", for the exact same result. 1620416;1488331816;mircea_popescu;not people. things. items. 1620417;1488334859;mod6;<+BingoBoingo> trb-tits << I thought that was shinohai's fork << :D 1620418;1488334952;shinohai;:D 1620419;1488335035;mod6;how goes shinohai ? 1620420;1488335107;shinohai;Not bad here, haven't lost 10 bitcents in Eulora today so ..... and you? 1620421;1488335237;*;shinohai still feels terribru about that 1620422;1488335438;mircea_popescu;lol poor guy 1620423;1488335468;mircea_popescu;here's a pic of a nice black girl going over backwards to suck some cock. http://68.media.tumblr.com/ca595189778e5688d585a0dbdda6f5e3/tumblr_mn2n4qplLe1s5v9c7o1_1280.png 1620424;1488335514;shinohai;I feel better now. 1620425;1488335684;mod6;dang 1620426;1488335723;mod6;im aight, bout to send out this SoBA here. 1620427;1488335895;shinohai;Awesum! Looking forward to it, I'm just now delving into asciilifeform 's tome. 1620428;1488335951;mod6;yeah, trying to keep up with all these posts. just started this one on "possible trb-i" 1620429;1488336386;mod6;Ladies and Gentlemen of the Most Serene Republic, The Bitcoin Foundation's monthly address: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-March/000258.html 1620430;1488336409;shinohai;\o/ 1620431;1488336448;mod6;asciilifeform: forgive us for not mentioning your many submissions as of late. we'll be addressing these next month. salud! 1620432;1488336553;mod6;shinohai: did you just burn through a ton of tools or what? 1620433;1488336678;shinohai;mod6: No I was trying to use xmacros to automate some clicks for mircea_popescu and accidentally bought the wrong bundle @ 45 bitcents 1620434;1488336702;shinohai;Electron buys back at ~35 1620435;1488336705;mod6;ah crap. 1620436;1488336725;shinohai;Lesson learned. Do that shit manually. 1620437;1488336752;mod6;fair enough. 1620438;1488337001;shinohai;tfw a camho faves the State of the Bitcoin Address tweet 1620439;1488337045;asciilifeform;dun worry mod6 1620440;1488337056;mod6;werd, thx alf 1620441;1488337060;mod6;shinohai: haha, nice. 1620442;1488337065;asciilifeform;i didnt make anything fit for memorializing in Soba this mo 1620443;1488337185;mod6;I still appreciate all your efforts, regardless. 1620444;1488337534;asciilifeform;ty mod6 . 1620445;1488337889;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620408 << lel, wasn't he the d00d with the 'btc bank card' 1620446;1488337889;a111;Logged on 2017-03-01 01:27 mircea_popescu: and a very fine point in case here, from my own personal experience, is that xapo sad faggot, wences casares. 1620447;1488337931;asciilifeform;even went to mircea_popescu's c1 1620448;1488337938;asciilifeform;and then evaporated 1620449;1488339980;BingoBoingo;Not evaporated, differently bothering now 1620450;1488340168;BingoBoingo;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/llYjE/?raw=true 1620451;1488342150;trinque;BingoBoingo: no response eh? I'll take a look 1620452;1488342167;trinque;rough edges on the new bot yet 1620453;1488343183;trinque;BingoBoingo: it's actually there, unconfirmed 1620454;1488343207;trinque;I fixed the problem of the mute bot, though 1620455;1488343400;deedbot;deeds online 1620456;1488343418;trinque;!!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/llYjE/?raw=true 1620457;1488343420;deedbot;accepted: 1 1620458;1488344528;BingoBoingo;ty trinque 1620459;1488346512;phf;asciilifeform: https://zeptobars.com/en/read/baikal-t1-mips-Imagination-Technologies-P5600-Warrior 1620460;1488349519;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620306 << to round the thread out, i also enjoy veen's company tremendously 1620461;1488349519;a111;Logged on 2017-03-01 00:10 ben_vulpes: not the pipes necessarily, but the garden; dog; wife; child; engines of my own... 1620462;1488349575;ben_vulpes;whoa pretty phf 1620463;1488349696;ben_vulpes;> we love microchips - that's why we boil them in acid 1620464;1488354715;ben_vulpes;http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/#comment-121460 << bug in screw examples? 1620465;1488362495;mircea_popescu;ima look into it. 1620466;1488365415;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-redditard/ << Trilema - The Redditard 1620467;1488373025;shinohai;http://archive.is/Twxkq <<< CoinDesk gets new CEO, still no plans to publish newsworthy articles however. 1620468;1488373786;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2C3FC522334163C0B6CF55BAF32AF6EB7DB80ECA003153CA2D167C84C9B4DC42 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1137...2399 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '223.94.90.83 (ssh-rsa key from 223.94.90.83 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN) 1620469;1488373786;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B079AB36D0E866779596469C3FAEBEF7B8C64D767B5C70392CA63F69F82FA1EC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1090...3007 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.245.198.38 (ssh-rsa key from 183.245.198.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN) 1620470;1488373786;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2C3FC522334163C0B6CF55BAF32AF6EB7DB80ECA003153CA2D167C84C9B4DC42 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1090...3007 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '223.94.90.83 (ssh-rsa key from 223.94.90.83 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN) 1620471;1488373786;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B079AB36D0E866779596469C3FAEBEF7B8C64D767B5C70392CA63F69F82FA1EC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1177...2589 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '183.245.198.38 (ssh-rsa key from 183.245.198.38 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN) 1620472;1488377850;mircea_popescu;where did they get this "ceo" from, was he the previous VP of ceosunlimitedbocavistatexas.tripod.com ? 1620473;1488377927;*;mircea_popescu likes reading the foundation reports. 1620474;1488378112;shinohai;Previous ceo wasn't bringing in enough shillbux. 1620475;1488378113;mircea_popescu;wow check it out, a quarter of the baikal chip's unused. 1620476;1488378277;mircea_popescu;this looks entirely very promising. where's my winnings alf ? 1620477;1488378575;asciilifeform;actually this is a mega-snoar, looks like the makers used 100% western toolchain, even macrocells 1620478;1488378597;asciilifeform;even so i'd buy one 1620479;1488378608;asciilifeform;(but fat chance of finding!) 1620480;1488378677;asciilifeform;oh hey lol they licensed the core! 1620481;1488378687;mircea_popescu;there's nothing "Western" about pn np pn stranding. 1620482;1488378728;mircea_popescu;but in other western technologies, http://68.media.tumblr.com/d10a3976994cae7727aeb3127572ad86/tumblr_mmbrdcBrgU1rgefeko1_1280.jpg 1620483;1488378791;asciilifeform;woah 1620484;1488378798;asciilifeform;circus-grade 1620485;1488378946;mircea_popescu;no this is how it goes. 1620486;1488379014;asciilifeform;in yet-other western tech, https://archive.is/YcSdC << 'A mid-2016 security incident led to Apple purging its data centers of servers built by Supermicro, including returning recently purchased systems... ... A source familiar with the case at Apple told Ars that the compromised firmware affected servers in Apple's design lab, and not active Siri servers. The firmware, according to the source, was downloaded directly from Supermicro's 1620487;1488379015;asciilifeform;' 1620488;1488379036;mircea_popescu;aww 1620489;1488379072;asciilifeform;...Supermicro's support site—and that firmware is still hosted there.' 1620490;1488379488;asciilifeform;re upstack -- i actually have here an earlier mips from imagination co. -- it is notbad.jpg (tested back in the day as potential pogo replacement) 1620491;1488379728;asciilifeform;from shinohai's link , 'Microsoft, Intel, banks form Enterprise Ethereum blockchain alliance' 1620492;1488379733;asciilifeform;didjaknow. 1620493;1488379793;mircea_popescu;eh fiss. 1620494;1488379806;shinohai;What could possibly go wrong? 1620495;1488379807;mircea_popescu;they've been doing this whole "add logos to a printed page" thing for years now, it did 0. 1620496;1488381263;asciilifeform;https://zeptobars.com/en/read/Espressif-ESP8266-wifi-serial-rs232-ESP8089-IoT << oh hey 1620497;1488381284;asciilifeform;this d00d never rests 1620498;1488381305;asciilifeform;1000s of die pr0nz 1620499;1488381654;asciilifeform;https://zeptobars.com/en/read/bitfury-bitcoin-mining-chip << such as 1620500;1488381692;mircea_popescu;he's pretty cool isn't he. 1620501;1488381699;mircea_popescu;someone invite him over! 1620502;1488381826;asciilifeform;so far mircea_popescu is the people-bringin' champ 1620503;1488381842;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform batting 0 / N to date ) 1620504;1488381850;mircea_popescu;i don't have an email! 1620505;1488381877;asciilifeform;maybe hanbot ? 1620506;1488385367;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FE6946A3BC2C63FF4316CD566875F2A65BCBFCF5FF6BB420A3F08B6FBA5EE0A0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1351...3347 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.94.239.189 (ssh-rsa key from 81.94.239.189 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mail.mnl-latvia.lv. LV 099) 1620507;1488385367;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FE6946A3BC2C63FF4316CD566875F2A65BCBFCF5FF6BB420A3F08B6FBA5EE0A0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1614...4133 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.94.239.189 (ssh-rsa key from 81.94.239.189 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mail.mnl-latvia.lv. LV 099) 1620508;1488385732;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/gRPSR << meanwhile, in prng lulz ! 1620509;1488386208;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, mod6 , et al : meanwhile, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/with_cache_yet_moar.txt 1620510;1488386275;mircea_popescu;sorry alf i'm busy chatting up this engineering 19yo. 1620511;1488386332;asciilifeform;lolk 1620512;1488386344;asciilifeform;(subj can wait for eons, really, it's a running log of crapolade timer) 1620513;1488386367;mircea_popescu;well thanks for the highlight then :D\ 1620514;1488387139;mircea_popescu;!!rate omraphantom 1 kinkster engineer teenager or something. 1620515;1488387141;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Po5lA/?raw=true 1620516;1488387166;mircea_popescu;!!v 83F8592A75BE0CEAA1DDE5BDE9B3DB2F8C280413A0E2F5DC82A45684A4D0DF34 1620517;1488387167;deedbot;mircea_popescu rated omraphantom 1 << kinkster engineer teenager or something. 1620518;1488387171;mircea_popescu;hey BingoBoingo were you in georgia ? 1620519;1488387213;asciilifeform;iirc BingoBoingo is normally found in missouri 1620520;1488387251;mircea_popescu;o was he ? 1620521;1488387280;asciilifeform;aha, unless recently moved 1620522;1488387415;omraphantom;hey 1620523;1488387493;asciilifeform;hello omraphantom 1620524;1488387530;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: friend of yours from meatspace ? 1620525;1488387586;mircea_popescu;nope. 1620526;1488387601;mircea_popescu;showed up asking questions. 1620527;1488387830;*;pete_dushenski just invited zeptobars over :) 1620528;1488387864;mircea_popescu;whoss ah the chip pornographer ? nice. 1620529;1488387885;pete_dushenski;lol yup 1620530;1488387912;pete_dushenski;probably a slightly older kinkster engineer than omraphantom 1620531;1488387928;omraphantom;lol 1620532;1488387938;omraphantom;i'm not reallly an engineer yet lol 1620533;1488387990;pete_dushenski;what's the attrition rate at your school ? 1620534;1488388066;omraphantom;starting in spring spent to long on that souls searching wtf will do phase lol 1620535;1488388152;omraphantom;i'm going to be 20 when i start now flm 1620536;1488388170;omraphantom;no what not spring 1620537;1488388172;omraphantom;fall 1620538;1488388199;omraphantom;when i can't think straight to gewt the seasons right >.< 1620539;1488388203;*;shinohai waves to pete_dushenski 1620540;1488388219;pete_dushenski;omraphantom: aha just getting rolling then. eh no rush to start eng school. a chunk of the guys here started but didn't even finish 1620541;1488388238;*;pete_dushenski salutes back to shinohai! 1620542;1488388259;omraphantom;i might start and end up pursuing a different degree 1620543;1488388283;omraphantom;but for now i need to focus on the general education credits 1620544;1488388365;pete_dushenski;you'd do worse than adding some #trilema logs to that general diet 1620545;1488388432;omraphantom;well 4 year degree general credits are needed 1620546;1488388453;omraphantom;but at the same time i'm not saying i won't be doing my course credits 1620547;1488388848;pete_dushenski;sure. and where'd you hear about this channel ? we need some more market research metrics 1620548;1488388868;thestringpuller;w/ind 20 1620549;1488388874;thestringpuller;>:( 1620550;1488388943;omraphantom;i heard of it from mircea 1620551;1488389065;pete_dushenski;o cool 1620552;1488389090;omraphantom;they have a carpenter friend that was in my state i should meet apparently. i have a furniture blueprint just zero skills lol 1620553;1488389253;pete_dushenski;speaking of wences, he was still pretending to be a person as recently as july 2015 (http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/21/wences-whacked-xapo-zapped/) though can't say i've heard a meaningful peep from him or about him since aside from 'swiss kyc blahblah' nothing-on-a-stick. 1620554;1488389296;omraphantom;me bored with too much time = crazy idea written out with no way to make it real 1620555;1488389329;pete_dushenski;omraphantom: i'm sure BingoBoingo can mentor you on carpentry but he's a couple states away in mo. 1620556;1488389342;pete_dushenski;online learning though! it's the future. 1620557;1488389359;omraphantom;yeah 1620558;1488389490;omraphantom;i've looked into crypto recently i've been poking at this key stuff last couple days been learning a lot 1620559;1488389560;pete_dushenski;speaking of learning, "Core exists as dictatorship and tyranny, upholding speech control, colluding to attack people with different views, has become the biggest threat of the long-term development of Bitcoin". ~bitmain miner guy (http://imgur.com/a/mhEEd) 1620560;1488389820;danielpbarron;!!v 4BD380C65B267722D29CD0A765BAD340DEBF6ACDCE2B8F1337BA7FB9F6142FCF 1620561;1488389820;deedbot;danielpbarron rated omraphantom 1 << euloran bundle maker 1620562;1488389991;danielpbarron;!!v DAA04E744674D33C096C3D91D86C12CDCD4CA9DF3A57AEFCC966CE993734ADC4 1620563;1488389992;deedbot;danielpbarron rated Aphex_ 1 << euloran bundle maker 1620564;1488390117;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: tried again, with possibly adequate specificity this time! 1620565;1488390173;danielpbarron;re: ratings above, both were very enthusiastic in performing some tasks for me in Eulora. very helpful, would hire again 1620566;1488391420;shinohai;https://twitter.com/gnupg/status/836996411061387266 <<< in gnupg lulz 1620567;1488391606;asciilifeform;'@aeliasen @gnupg for fingerprints collisions are not interesting. There is no known preimage attack for SHA1. Keep calm and use OpenPGP.' << lel 1620568;1488394448;mircea_popescu;omraphantom yeah, turns out he's from missouri though ;/ 1620569;1488394452;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes lessee! 1620570;1488394601;mircea_popescu;right you are, i updarted it. 1620571;1488394680;*;asciilifeform has been thinking very seriously about how to make http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol correctly; and is quite bugged by the fact that ~verification~ is O(N) 1620572;1488394712;asciilifeform;eventually (given death of moore's law, already long ago) the minimal practical time will exceed the block interval, and then mega-headache. 1620573;1488394753;asciilifeform;in fact verification from-genesis is O(N^2) ! 1620574;1488394771;mircea_popescu;there is that. 1620575;1488394780;asciilifeform;actually worse than N^2 1620576;1488394786;mircea_popescu;however, if you already did the work, what is the problem ? 1620577;1488394812;asciilifeform;if you already live on mars, there is no problem in flying to mars, yes. 1620578;1488394834;mircea_popescu;but this is what the nodes ~are selling~. the o(n^e ness) 1620579;1488394852;asciilifeform;but if standing up a brand-new node from scratch, with full verification (rather than dumb bitwise copy of existing node) takes a century... 1620580;1488394881;mircea_popescu;so ? 1620581;1488394890;mircea_popescu;cdb. 1620582;1488394898;asciilifeform;what's that 1620583;1488394903;mircea_popescu;cost of doing business. 1620584;1488394912;mircea_popescu;"mining a block takes a century" currently, it's no bug. 1620585;1488394932;asciilifeform;an inevitable visaification, The Guild of The Three Nodes, etc, at t-->inf, is a downer. 1620586;1488394941;asciilifeform;mining != verification. 1620587;1488394945;mircea_popescu;understand, there's no way to at the same time give nodes marketable data AND make it so any redditard can just pop a node 1620588;1488394952;mircea_popescu;these are strictly contradictory constraints. 1620589;1488394968;asciilifeform;i posted one just the other day (granted it wasn't 'any redditard', but wotronic) 1620590;1488394975;mircea_popescu;if it's valuable then not everyone can do it and vice-versa. 1620591;1488394987;asciilifeform;anyone can bang on a keyboard, some folx still get paid for it, others -- not. 1620592;1488395002;asciilifeform;circus bear -- can bang. 1620593;1488395003;mircea_popescu;this is an entirely ridiculous misrepresentation of the issue 1620594;1488395010;mircea_popescu;anyone can run current through wires. nmot what we're discussing. 1620595;1488395048;mircea_popescu;turn on your livingroom lights, pretend you're "running a node". exactly the same as "bang on keyboard, pretend you're writing" 1620596;1488395065;asciilifeform;as i currently understand it, mircea_popescu's algo had two major effects -- a) nodes have something valuable to sell b) all users are protocolically forced to retain all blocks 1620597;1488395074;mircea_popescu;no, but all nodes are. 1620598;1488395082;mircea_popescu;users are forced to nothing. 1620599;1488395119;asciilifeform;users who want to verify blocks 1620600;1488395122;asciilifeform;that is to say, all sane people 1620601;1488395124;mircea_popescu;this is nodes. 1620602;1488395125;asciilifeform;gotta store. 1620603;1488395137;asciilifeform;what is 'user' distinct from 'node operator' ? 1620604;1488395141;asciilifeform;a goxhead ? 1620605;1488395149;mircea_popescu;"users who verify blocks" = nodes ; " monkeys who shave and drive cars " = people 1620606;1488395159;mircea_popescu;user in general is "tx author". 1620607;1488395169;asciilifeform;tx author who has no node of his own == shaved monkey 1620608;1488395175;mircea_popescu;besides the point. 1620609;1488395261;asciilifeform;O(N^2) verification of each incoming block, is even worse of a 'heat death' rate than of traditional bitcoin 1620610;1488395274;asciilifeform;(which is closer to O(NlogN) 1620611;1488395274;asciilifeform;) 1620612;1488395278;mircea_popescu;he who knows a secret key is a bitcoin user ; he who can say if ia signed transaction is valid or invalid is a bitcoin node ; he who can include a bitcoin transaction in a block is a bitcoin miner. 1620613;1488395323;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there is that. 1620614;1488395333;asciilifeform;convergence to handful of massive google-like datacenters for ~nodes~ -- not miners, but also nodes -- is inherently usgistic imho. 1620615;1488395351;asciilifeform;this is an open problem, because 'miners don't need the blocks' is also imho intolerable. 1620616;1488395366;mircea_popescu;im not saying it's closed by any means. 1620617;1488395395;asciilifeform;it needs a fundamental breakthrough, i suspect. 1620618;1488395409;mircea_popescu;yeah well... 1620619;1488395427;asciilifeform;didn't mircea_popescu find a new chocolate icecream shop! he oughta go there, eat some, come back with theorem. 1620620;1488395448;mircea_popescu;im gonna be off in a minute, fucking a new slut. 1620621;1488395457;asciilifeform;maybe as good! 1620622;1488395463;mircea_popescu;not usually. 1620623;1488395466;asciilifeform;but before he does: 1620624;1488395476;mircea_popescu;half the reason i'm a shitty scientist : unlike the good ones, i get laid. 1620625;1488395506;asciilifeform;say the miner has to find a string in an old block , as part of mining, that fits a nonce-derived pattern. 1620626;1488395560;asciilifeform;for sake of argument, an F, such that a substring S of old block B makes F(nonce + B) = true. 1620627;1488395574;asciilifeform;this is verifiable in O(1) 1620628;1488395582;asciilifeform;but requires access to all old blocks, to search for. 1620629;1488395637;mircea_popescu;why ? statistically, only to a fraction. 1620630;1488395641;mircea_popescu;you gave away your wife. 1620631;1488395659;asciilifeform;depending on how you make F, he does need to examine all blocks. 1620632;1488395668;mircea_popescu;this can not be guaranteed. 1620633;1488395670;asciilifeform;(and even then may turn up short, and have to go back for a new nonce) 1620634;1488395686;mircea_popescu;yes, but moreover he'll just keep a few blocks and go for new nonces more often 1620635;1488395692;asciilifeform;it can be made as painful as the hashing is to begin with 1620636;1488395696;asciilifeform;in the same way. 1620637;1488395705;mircea_popescu;in which case it is also no longer distinct. 1620638;1488395715;asciilifeform;how's that 1620639;1488395728;mircea_popescu;cuz it'll be == the hashing if it's as hard as the hashing. 1620640;1488395743;mircea_popescu;you can't turn out your wife without being married to a whore, alfie. 1620641;1488395748;mircea_popescu;either you cheat or you don't. 1620642;1488395802;asciilifeform;the cheat -- works. say your hash is a keccak that eats 512b blocks and produces 512b block. 1620643;1488395867;mircea_popescu;aok 1620644;1488395871;mircea_popescu;ok* 1620645;1488395888;asciilifeform;the nonce is Q. miner has to now find an old block that , treated with the above walk, contains F(Q). and point to the block # and the requisite offset . 1620646;1488395902;mircea_popescu;cheaper to spin the nonces. 1620647;1488395922;asciilifeform;open problem. betcha one can find the pill for this., 1620648;1488395924;asciilifeform;. 1620649;1488395955;mircea_popescu;i dunno. the further you go prng-away from the "quote the nth line in the log", the closer you getr to "my solution to mining is mining+mining" 1620650;1488395968;asciilifeform;(for instance, can demand that the miner find a Q that depends only on the parts of the block he cannot easily spin.) 1620651;1488395987;asciilifeform;O(N^2) verification suxxx. 1620652;1488395994;mircea_popescu;i have no argument with that. 1620653;1488395996;asciilifeform;gotta find a finesse around it. 1620654;1488396007;asciilifeform;or you get an algae globe 1620655;1488396010;mircea_popescu;but just because we're all going to die it does not follow we should go around on stilts and weird beak masks either 1620656;1488396012;asciilifeform;or whatever that toy is called 1620657;1488396017;asciilifeform;the one that blooms for a bit, and dies. 1620658;1488396024;*;asciilifeform adjusts beak mask. 1620659;1488396058;mircea_popescu;if you ever get kicked out of engineering tower should prolly try out the arts, become draughtsman 1620660;1488396068;*;asciilifeform goes into the pit, bbl. 1620661;1488396725;asciilifeform;ooook try this on for size : suppose fixed-width TX (as discussed earlier.) T(N) is the Nth tx, T(0) is the first tx in genesis block, etc. Tmax is the last tx in the currentheightblock. 1620662;1488396741;asciilifeform;T(N) is an O(1) fetch, as spoken of earlier. 1620663;1488396784;asciilifeform;say every new block , to be valid, must contain a tx-sized slot (not covered by the nonce hash, but see below) that is computed as follows: 1620664;1488396823;asciilifeform;T( nonce mod Tmax ) xor T ( H(nonce) mod Tmax ) xor T ( H(H(nonce)) mod Tmax ). 1620665;1488396889;asciilifeform;there is no way to practically compute this value without having a copy of the blockchain. and it also ends up being luby-transformable into any one of the 3 old tx if you have the other 2. a kind of perpetual redundancy in the storage . 1620666;1488396985;asciilifeform;this also entirely annihilates the possibility that a future enemy could monkey with contents of old blocks by finding hash collisions. 1620667;1488397088;asciilifeform;theoretically it also means that a tx, as time goes to infinity, will have infinite number of confirmations... 1620668;1488397129;asciilifeform;(statistically speaking, any sequence of blocks, will eventually end up luby-coded into future blocks ! ) 1620669;1488397265;asciilifeform;in above example, the 'arity' of the xor is 3. and mircea_popescu will probably answer, when he comes back , that evil miner will waltz the nonce until the 3 necessary tx are the ones that fit in his pocket. but arity doesn't have to be 3. 1620670;1488397279;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-the-scared-slut/ << Trilema - The Story of the scared slut. 1620671;1488397297;asciilifeform;what remains is to compute the minimal arity for the attack to be impractical. and prove said fact. 1620672;1488397395;asciilifeform;(either this, or simply replace 'nonce' in the equation, with a Z, that is equal to a hash over the ~transactions in the candidate block~, considerably more painful to waltz than the nonce ) 1620673;1488397479;asciilifeform;now challenge for the reader ! 1620674;1488397528;asciilifeform;suppose that tx's (recall, fixed width) position in the block, is also kept inside it. (e.g., tx # 100 will start with a 16bit field containing 0x0064 .) 1620675;1488397536;asciilifeform;and we have the luby transform above. 1620676;1488397574;asciilifeform;what is the complexity of actually fetching the Nth tx , if you can also make use of the T(...)xorT(...)xorT(...) in every block. 1620677;1488397905;asciilifeform;.... another pill against 'waltzers' : Z depends on the ~previous~ block. 1620678;1488397956;asciilifeform;( Z from here-on in this gedankenexperiment is simply a value that determines which 3 -- if arity==3 -- old tx's get xor'd ) 1620679;1488398014;*;asciilifeform bbl. 1620680;1488399153;asciilifeform;as far as i can see, this solves. Z depends on previous block, and the xor'd output is ~covered~ by the hash (and nonce) of the currently-worked-on block. so miner cannot craft his Z, he is forced to suck it up. 1620681;1488399202;asciilifeform;(and he cannot even begin to work on a block until he knows Z and goes, fetches the required old tx ! no other miner has any incentive to help him do this.) 1620682;1488399216;asciilifeform;quite the opposite. 1620683;1488401135;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you know that's not a half bad idea 1620684;1488401715;mircea_popescu;lubby coding. better than simple hashing for this purpose. deifnitely. 1620685;1488402084;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fixed-width tx buys us this algo. but not only it. for instance, an adult tx's unique index can be quite short : blknum_txoffset. this in turn saves space elsewhere, for all time. 1620686;1488402264;asciilifeform;for folx tuned in : it also makes the cask thing possible, but the latter is wholly separate, optional algo, it is possible to use traditional mempools with this scheme 1620687;1488402415;mircea_popescu;yeah. fixed width tx has some serious advantages. 1620688;1488402694;mircea_popescu;"all txn are 2 in 2 out" fixed width txn seems nailed down at this point. i can't see how an argument would work that'd offset the evident gains. 1620689;1488403273;mircea_popescu;i would still love to see, for what it's work, PROPER ring signatures. 1620690;1488403772;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it doesn't have to be capped at 2, either, unless you use casks and want to leave room for dozen+ hop stages 1620691;1488403791;asciilifeform;(or unless you want to make blocks ~very~ compact) 1620692;1488403823;mircea_popescu;it's capped at 2 because 0 1 infinity. why 3 ? 1620693;1488403827;asciilifeform;tru!! 1620694;1488403835;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: describe, for my education, how Proper ring signature differs from shamir's 1620695;1488403859;mircea_popescu;first nondegenerate case. 1620696;1488403919;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is an "idea" item not a technological object, so bear with me. a "ring signature" is a set of signatures with a) arbitrary cardinality n which has the property that b) while it can be verified the correct signature was offered it c) can't be established wich signature that is. 1620697;1488403931;asciilifeform;reviewing definition of ring sig : some process , whereby a signature S can be verified against keys K1, K2, ... KN , but without revealing which K had produced it 1620698;1488403938;asciilifeform;aha, looks like we're on same page 1620699;1488403951;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1620700;1488403966;mircea_popescu;once stated the pipedream portion is pretty painfully obvious ; but nevertheless, maybe ? 1620701;1488403985;asciilifeform;let's try to at least put it on paper, what would be this squared circle 1620702;1488404007;BingoBoingo; hey BingoBoingo were you in georgia ? << That's thestringpuller 1620703;1488404014;BingoBoingo; iirc BingoBoingo is normally found in missouri << Southern Illinois 1620704;1488404025;asciilifeform;as i understand, what mircea_popescu would like is : V(K1, S)=false, V(K2, S)=false, .... BUT V(K1,K2,..,KN, S) = true 1620705;1488404027;asciilifeform;^ ? 1620706;1488404048;mircea_popescu;pretty much. 1620707;1488404060;asciilifeform;how, hypothetically, would S be produced 1620708;1488404071;asciilifeform;by owner of a particular K strictly ? 1620709;1488404088;mircea_popescu;it's worse than that, by any owner of any k in the list. 1620710;1488404093;mircea_popescu;otherwise you leak bits. 1620711;1488404096;asciilifeform;'all for one an' one for all' 1620712;1488404111;mircea_popescu;to be more rigurous : 1620713;1488404121;asciilifeform;now let's say we have this primitive. how do you make, out of it, a bitcoinlike 1620714;1488404138;mircea_popescu;V(K1, S1)=false, V(K2, S1)=false, .... BUT V(K1,K2,..,KN, S1) = true if and only if K1 signed S1 ; similarily with k2 and s2 all the way to n 1620715;1488404154;mircea_popescu;it's not enough with a plain S. 1620716;1488404155;BingoBoingo; me bored with too much time = crazy idea written out with no way to make it real << Go to lumber yard, buy wood. Go to hardware store buy tools. Make things until you start making things of complexity necessary to carry skills into building crazy things 1620717;1488404174;mircea_popescu;19yo female, bb. that's not occuring. 1620718;1488404266;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: even supposing that you had this, if you actually needed all pubkeys in use to-date to verify a sig... it'll be painful 1620719;1488404282;mircea_popescu;hm 1620720;1488404299;mircea_popescu;N would be small though. 2-12 ish sort of item 1620721;1488404302;asciilifeform;ah 1620722;1488404317;mircea_popescu;in FACT, the MORE sigs it uses in a ring, the more expensive the tx fee should be. 1620723;1488404394;asciilifeform;well yes, it'll eat linearly moar cycles, to verify 1620724;1488404439;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform re-reading i am pretty much convinced that the requirement that a) signatures are produced pairwise nevertheless b) no pairwise verification function exists yet c) verification works on a group of them is batshit insanity. might as well ask for a 5 smaller than 4. 1620725;1488404471;asciilifeform;not necessarily 1620726;1488404493;mircea_popescu;tsk. not algebraically either. how the fuck would V(all) work so it's not decomposed into Vi(each) 1620727;1488404523;asciilifeform;it'd work, naturally, if the algo actually ~needed~ all of the pubkeys 1620728;1488404537;mircea_popescu;(note that the decomposition needn't be Vs but will likely be a homomorphism, which POSSIBLY tyakes us straight to the hardest code known to man, the see-or-pick homomorphisms) 1620729;1488404540;asciilifeform;because the signing process likewise took in all of'em 1620730;1488404560;asciilifeform;reminds me of how one breaks shamir's ring 1620731;1488404560;mircea_popescu;i forget wtf that is called, we discussed it. 1620732;1488404645;asciilifeform;*remind me of how 1620733;1488404647;asciilifeform;plz 1620734;1488404732;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's this scheme whereby i create a graph, A and a homomorphism of it A'. you get ot see A', and may challenge me 1620735;1488404745;mircea_popescu;either i must show you A, or else an A - A' relation. 1620736;1488405035;asciilifeform;graph isomerism zkp ? 1620737;1488405127;asciilifeform;( as in, say, these : http://web.mit.edu/~ezyang/Public/graph/svg.html ) 1620738;1488405153;mircea_popescu;well, deciding whether two given graphs are homomorphic is > np. 1620739;1488405192;mircea_popescu;and there was a scheme proposed whereby you either show the graphs or the relation ; op keeps challenging you ; each correct response increases the probabiling of truth by a factor of 2 1620740;1488405204;mircea_popescu;i derrided it for being impractical but i can't fucking find the discussion 1620741;1488405209;mircea_popescu;was last year iirc 1620742;1488405316;mircea_popescu;oh oh oh! it was hamiltonians! 1620743;1488405322;mircea_popescu;!# "hamiltonian" 1620744;1488405382;asciilifeform;can't seem to find ~this~, either 1620745;1488405396;mircea_popescu;what the fuck i hallucinated math discussions. 1620746;1488405402;asciilifeform;nono we had this 1620747;1488405416;mircea_popescu;anyway. the encryption scheme is like this : you generate a large graph with a hamiltonian cycle ; and a homomorphic graph. 1620748;1488405435;mircea_popescu;you may be challenged to either show the hamiltonian in the homomorphic graph, or else to show the homomorphism between the graphs. 1620749;1488405562;mircea_popescu;wtf 1620750;1488405592;asciilifeform;i actually worked with this notion last year, when investigating nonretarded (i.e. of provable complexity) block ciphering. and came to same realization that mircea_popescu is probably about to come to 1620751;1488405608;mircea_popescu;yeah, it was part of that discussion. 1620752;1488405612;mircea_popescu;pretty fucking frustrating. 1620753;1488405631;asciilifeform;( spoiler : can't prove the hardness of magicking ~your particular~ graph. ) 1620754;1488405655;mircea_popescu;that's separate. 1620755;1488405662;mircea_popescu;heck, same stands for rsa. 1620756;1488405713;asciilifeform;rsa doesn't pretend to a known complexity class tho. 1620757;1488405725;asciilifeform;graph-circuit appeals because it -- does 1620758;1488405747;mircea_popescu;yawell. 1620759;1488405752;mircea_popescu;where the fuck is that convo 1620760;1488405769;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-06#1477755 << it ? 1620761;1488405769;a111;Logged on 2016-06-06 21:38 asciilifeform: particular case can be as simple as you like. 1620762;1488405805;mircea_popescu;not evidently ;/ 1620763;1488405856;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-10#1402378 << i think it was thereabouts. 1620764;1488405856;a111;Logged on 2016-02-10 20:10 mircea_popescu: basically showing that a+b < c is true or false for a, b, c in R is a harder-than-NP problem. 1620765;1488405874;mircea_popescu;because we were doing a review of possibly weaponizable known problems 1620766;1488405882;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-20#1436710 << another thread re subj 1620767;1488405882;a111;Logged on 2016-03-20 17:10 mats: https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/356/why-hasnt-there-been-an-encryption-algorithm-that-is-based-on-the-known-np-hard 1620768;1488405885;asciilifeform;it keeps coming back 1620769;1488405917;asciilifeform;i walked compendia of known np-hard/np-complete problems, and found that all of them had same hole 1620770;1488405945;asciilifeform;i.e. no known algo for constructing a known problem--solution pair, using rng, of ~known~ average complexity. 1620771;1488405973;asciilifeform;incidentally ~all of the material is circa 1970s. 1620772;1488405983;asciilifeform;(at least, of the public material!) 1620773;1488406039;BingoBoingo; 19yo female, bb. that's not occuring. << Frequent occurence. Typical hardware store is full of 19 year old girls. Even in the lumber section. Pinterest is a thing apparently. 1620774;1488406074;shinohai;Because 19yo females like wood. 1620775;1488406086;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i think i found it : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-05#1396876 1620776;1488406086;a111;Logged on 2016-02-05 01:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: played around with a few graph-theoretical approaches (in particular, max-clique problem) 1620777;1488406089;asciilifeform;the thread. 1620778;1488406098;mircea_popescu;i'm so fucking frustrated. no mention of hamiltonian cycles, no mention of blum who came up with it, nothing. what the fuck miserable idiot am i, can't reference anything properly. 1620779;1488406208;asciilifeform;( next day, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-06#1397621 moar .) 1620780;1488406208;a111;Logged on 2016-02-06 02:49 mircea_popescu: actually the 4 color map thing is in my head just as good if not better than knapsack 1620781;1488406284;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-06#1398003 << loller. 1620782;1488406284;a111;Logged on 2016-02-06 16:44 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "- He says current block ciphers suck. Why? It doesn't really become clear from the discussion, which seems to be between two people who have heard a little bit about cryptography, and are trying to outdo each other in what little knowledge they have." 1620783;1488406287;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Seriously go, observe 1620784;1488406291;mircea_popescu;this seems very close, but not actually it wtf. 1620785;1488406319;BingoBoingo;Wait, shinohai aren't you in Georgia! 1620786;1488406327;shinohai;Yup 1620787;1488406426;mircea_popescu;lel 1620788;1488406474;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it seems it's lost. sad. 1620789;1488406486;asciilifeform;maybe it was a pm convo 1620790;1488406495;asciilifeform;but evidently not with asciilifeform , because it dun turn up there 1620791;1488406538;mircea_popescu;shit it was on trilema 1620792;1488406558;shinohai;lol 1620793;1488406561;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-118994 1620794;1488406576;asciilifeform;yes! 1620795;1488406579;asciilifeform;theeere 1620796;1488406593;mircea_popescu;hallelujah i was getting pretty depressed. 1620797;1488406667;asciilifeform;metoo, i was quite convinced that i lost a set of l0gz to bitrot 1620798;1488406689;asciilifeform;(and on raid5 no less) 1620799;1488406709;mircea_popescu;anyway. to get back to the discussion, maybe something in the vein of blum's scheme may be applied to the ring problem 1620800;1488406739;mircea_popescu;whereby you can verify one signed, but to find out which requires unwinding the whole graph. 1620801;1488406753;mircea_popescu;verify the right one signed* 1620802;1488406787;mircea_popescu;it would be fine if the security actually grew through being snowed in (ie, 0 difficulty to separate them on block 1, and growing from there each block, for all txn) 1620803;1488406791;*;shinohai hopes mircea_popescu writes an article "In which I became lost in my own museum" 1620804;1488406803;mircea_popescu;shinohai consider i'm not even 40 yet l/ 1620805;1488406840;shinohai;To be fair, trilema is a big place. 1620806;1488406908;mircea_popescu;but why be fair. 1620807;1488406951;BingoBoingo;For Pig-Elliot! 1620808;1488406968;shinohai;^ 1620809;1488406980;mircea_popescu;lel 1620810;1488407085;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: let's suppose you had ring signature, we have edge of the sword. how does the hilt work ? i.e. you have an output, that is spendable, but you want it spendable by ~you~, not by 1,001 randomly-selected pubkeys. 1620811;1488407098;asciilifeform;what's the spendability condition ? 1620812;1488407109;mircea_popescu;let me restate because i'm not sure it's clear. 1620813;1488407247;mircea_popescu;Let there be private keys K1...Kn. Let there be uxto associated with these, I1..Im so that any one I is associated with one and only one K. let there be a function S, so that the verification function V(Kx, S(Iy)) is always false, or uncomputable, or whatever whereas V(K1..Kn, S(Iy)) is always true if and only if the K Iy is associated to signed it. 1620814;1488407341;mircea_popescu;ie, if K3 owns input I5, and if K3 signs I5, then it can be verified that the ring composed of K3, K4, K7, K9 a) signed I5, and b) owned I5 to sign it ; but it can't be verified that any subgroup didn't own I5. 1620815;1488407378;mircea_popescu;for the needs of this contortion, K3, K4, K9, K11 is a subgroup of K3, K4, K7, K9 1620816;1488407391;mircea_popescu;now -- this is the fantasy. 1620817;1488407401;asciilifeform;oook i getit 1620818;1488407442;asciilifeform;the good noose : i don't know a proof that you ~can't~ do this... 1620819;1488407448;mircea_popescu;yeah me either 1620820;1488407469;mircea_popescu;(i've been thinking about this thing ever since fluffypony first spoke in channel, but hey. i';ve nothing meaningful to show for it.) 1620821;1488407472;asciilifeform;and yeah this is the squared-circle from couplaedaysago 1620822;1488407491;asciilifeform;the crackpots have been at it since before chaum, 1620823;1488407498;asciilifeform;and the charlatans -- since; and quite vigorously 1620824;1488407510;asciilifeform;(recall the zero-whatvrs, how many of those alts by now.) 1620825;1488407518;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1620826;1488407603;asciilifeform;can anybody remind me of how shamir&rivest's original algo fails 1620827;1488407612;asciilifeform;(it nominally solved this problem) 1620828;1488407678;thestringpuller;!~later tell danielpbarron http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/VG61w/?raw=true 1620829;1488407678;jhvh1;thestringpuller: The operation succeeded. 1620830;1488407698;asciilifeform;all i recall is old thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-30#1532069 1620831;1488407698;a111;Logged on 2016-08-30 17:29 asciilifeform: davout: 'ring signatures' are not the promised 'invisibility cloak', but more of a smoke grenade. 1620832;1488407730;asciilifeform;^ where my contention was, you can factor out the signer using multiple sets of shamirized sigs 1620833;1488407737;asciilifeform;by process of elimination . 1620834;1488407760;mircea_popescu;that's where it fails, "but it can't be verified that any subgroup didn't own I5." 1620835;1488407778;mircea_popescu;there's a very directly computable homomorphism, the item being you know, the algebraic ring. 1620836;1488407803;mircea_popescu;it's ~worth nothing that "hurr durr, riong signatures" when i can degraqde it by trying subgroups until i hit yours. 1620837;1488407908;asciilifeform;say, today, k3, k4, k7, ... , k9 sign. tomorrow, k7, k21, k3, ... , k333. next day, k42, k3, ... whatever. now 'you can't verify that no subgroup...' ~within~ the algo, but someone who has the whole list and notices that only k3 recurrs... 1620838;1488407915;asciilifeform;if he has half a brain -- knows which k. 1620839;1488407926;mircea_popescu;actually i suspect it can be proven that in any ordered set with two operations which admit distinct id operators / are commutative this property can't exist. 1620840;1488407940;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that is ok. 1620841;1488407961;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: how's that. the seekrit, is blown, neh 1620842;1488407970;mircea_popescu;re the above line : all rings are right out, basically. 1620843;1488407976;asciilifeform;i suspect so 1620844;1488407978;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform operator error. 1620845;1488407997;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: would be interesting to tally the avg case cost of not committing this error. 1620846;1488408006;asciilifeform;(of guarantee of not committing it) 1620847;1488408008;mircea_popescu;it is computable and this is good enough for me. 1620848;1488408033;mircea_popescu;this item definitely counts for your grand list of trb-isms. on the strength of that, "computable", i ask no more. 1620849;1488408065;asciilifeform;there's computables and there's computables-and-doables. unfortunately distinct sets in practice. 1620850;1488408079;asciilifeform;(if you need a jupiter-sized machine, it isn't very hotstuff algo-wise) 1620851;1488408079;mircea_popescu;matters not. technological improvement is technological improvement. 1620852;1488408117;asciilifeform;dunno re mircea_popescu's planet, on mine, semiconductors sorta stopped, in 2009-ish, and aren't threatening to develop mega-improvement 1620853;1488408139;mircea_popescu;nevertheless. 1620854;1488408161;mircea_popescu;anyway, the useful research in nonalgebraic sets is, at least to my (admittedly limited) knowledge entirely absent. 1620855;1488408197;asciilifeform;you will find that many 'wouldn't that be useful..' items are ~entirely absent in the public lit. and no prizes for guessing why. 1620856;1488408208;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1620857;1488408214;asciilifeform;i dug for the can-guarantee-avg-case-np-hard? thing -- found zip. 1620858;1488408223;mircea_popescu;anyway, lattices. psshhh. 1620859;1488408245;mircea_popescu;give me a non-algebraic set with interesting operations instead. 1620860;1488408253;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform also has pretty strong bias against mechanically-complicated crypto. ) 1620861;1488408267;asciilifeform;it is very easy to 'zerocoin'erize. 1620862;1488408274;asciilifeform;(or was it zcashulation ? ) 1620863;1488408280;asciilifeform;i can never keep the 2 straight. 1620864;1488408294;mircea_popescu;fucking art students wasting their life with http://jezebel.com/heres-a-woman-plopping-paint-eggs-out-of-her-vagina-1566693939 1620865;1488408324;asciilifeform;oh lol that chick 1620866;1488408328;asciilifeform;she's in the l0gz 1620867;1488408337;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1620868;1488408457;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, as an entirely idle example : the set of numbers with mpfhf defined on it is actually a fine example in this vein. it ISNT an algebraic structure ; but an algorithmic structure. 1620869;1488408472;asciilifeform;to revisit the smoke grenade -- how do you deal with the unopposability of having paid for something ? 1620870;1488408522;mircea_popescu;i dunno, say politically. if you decide to claim tomorrow that there never was such a thing as c3, how do i deal with it ? 1620871;1488408525;asciilifeform;or does payee get told the secret over separate (say, rsa'd) channel 1620872;1488408534;mircea_popescu;or yes i was about to say that. 1620873;1488408538;asciilifeform;because that'd work 1620874;1488408550;asciilifeform;(in so far as payee can be trusted to stfu forever) 1620875;1488408597;mircea_popescu;even something as simple as -- ammt made it, therefore paid is good enough really. 1620876;1488408621;asciilifeform;the amts aren't secret, per the scheme, though 1620877;1488408629;mircea_popescu;indeed. 1620878;1488408638;asciilifeform;someone else can pay him same amt. and then to whom does he send the plutonium. 1620879;1488408651;mircea_popescu;same way fuckgoats works neh. 1620880;1488408673;asciilifeform;well not quite, we do store the pgp'd orders 1620881;1488408681;mircea_popescu;so what's the problem ? 1620882;1488408698;mircea_popescu;as long as right amt showed up -- right amt showed up, proceed. 1620883;1488408718;asciilifeform;i guess this isn't one of the problems. 1620884;1488408722;mircea_popescu;notrly. 1620885;1488408774;asciilifeform;( i can't think of any reason why payee would care if payer A, or B, had supplied the agreed-upon amount ) 1620886;1488408787;asciilifeform;so long as they are guaranteed to be distinct at every step in time 1620887;1488408913;mircea_popescu;the important point here is exactly this - that it should no longer be possible to meaningfully talk of "payer". 1620888;1488408918;mircea_popescu;just payments. no payers. fuck usg. 1620889;1488408942;asciilifeform;well yes, this'd be implicit in ring sig. 1620890;1488408943;mircea_popescu;just fucks, no fuckers. tananana. 1620891;1488408968;asciilifeform;!#s martian bank 1620892;1488408969;a111;12 results for "martian bank", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=martian%20bank 1620893;1488409034;danielpbarron;!~later tell thestringpuller http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qo014/?raw=true 1620894;1488409035;jhvh1;danielpbarron: The operation succeeded. 1620895;1488409088;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557335 thread , and elsewhere ) 1620896;1488409088;a111;Logged on 2016-10-20 20:37 asciilifeform: ('martian bank' being simply a naive abstraction of 'idealizes swiss bank', where money supply is constant, and i can send from account a1 can send to a2 if and only if i have the privkey for a1, and double-spend - impossible, etc.) 1620897;1488409790;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: btw 'no payers, only payments' is probably impossible with public balances existing in any sense. 1620898;1488409854;asciilifeform;if balances are visible -- anyone can see that addr A had a payment-P-shaped chunk subtracted from it at time T. 1620899;1488409890;asciilifeform;esp. if everyone is in the habit of using all of the decimal places of P as an invoice id. 1620900;1488409927;asciilifeform;i suppose this is why mircea_popescu wanted the 2-input thing. 1620901;1488409931;mircea_popescu;i don't see public balances are useful. 1620902;1488409939;mircea_popescu;tx verification is good enough. 1620903;1488409949;asciilifeform;how do you verify without public balances ? 1620904;1488409958;asciilifeform;now you also want homomorphic arithmetic, looks like 1620905;1488409963;mircea_popescu;i think i always did. 1620906;1488409972;asciilifeform;'we're squaring circles, may as well make perpetuum mobile and immortality' 1620907;1488409976;mircea_popescu;hey. 1620908;1488409992;mircea_popescu;anyway, the idea is you verify balance when spent ; not before. 1620909;1488410021;mircea_popescu;the chain of beneficiaries can obv verify the balance, but "public" can not. 1620910;1488410023;asciilifeform;can third party calculate the monetary mass ? 1620911;1488410028;mircea_popescu;nope. 1620912;1488410028;asciilifeform;because if not , you have the fed. 1620913;1488410031;mircea_popescu;can only verify blockchain. 1620914;1488410043;mircea_popescu;no, because public can verify all blocks are valid. 1620915;1488410057;asciilifeform;valid also means 'nobody gets to printolade' 1620916;1488410058;mircea_popescu;(and -- suddenly have an incentive to, too! because if they don]'t.... fed) 1620917;1488410063;mircea_popescu;indeed. 1620918;1488410103;asciilifeform;which means that i gotta be able to prove that monetary mass is what the mining curve says it is. and not something else. 1620919;1488410115;mircea_popescu;not necessarily in these terms. 1620920;1488410135;mircea_popescu;it suffices to prove that all outputs without an input are proper block rewards. 1620921;1488410176;asciilifeform;that doesn't prove that monetary mass was not somehow added during noncoinbase ops 1620922;1488410191;asciilifeform;i.e. that some output, somewhere, yielded moar coin than the sum of the inputs. 1620923;1488410195;mircea_popescu;how did the tx verify ? 1620924;1488410274;asciilifeform;that's more or less equivalent to my question 1620925;1488410280;mircea_popescu;i guess. 1620926;1488410290;asciilifeform;which is , how would you have such a thing as a sanely-behaving balance to begin with 1620927;1488410303;mircea_popescu;here's the idea : currently, you only know the pubkey for a bitcoin address once it spends ; before it spends you do not know its pubkey. 1620928;1488410323;mircea_popescu;the ~same should be extended to amounts. 1620929;1488410348;asciilifeform;one simple way to do this, is to dispense with amounts (as discussed in at least 2 old threads) 1620930;1488410360;asciilifeform;i.e. danielpbarron's vectors 1620931;1488410378;asciilifeform;no moar coin breaking. 1620932;1488410381;mircea_popescu;not sure that's necessary ; the true argument against "amounts" is that well... again, the 0.25 problem ; http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619936 1620933;1488410381;a111;Logged on 2017-02-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: practically speaking on current tech the bitcoin unit of account is probably something like 0.25 1620934;1488410389;mircea_popescu;stop lying, txn = unit of account. 1620935;1488410396;asciilifeform;think dubloons, rather than pieces-of-eight. 1620936;1488410405;asciilifeform;amounts suck. 1620937;1488410416;mircea_popescu;counterintuitively enough they actually do. 1620938;1488410439;mircea_popescu;it is, cards on the table, more of a buried lie than ~anything else in the "protocol" 1620939;1488410722;asciilifeform;it is one of the major leaks in the vacuum piping 1620940;1488410738;asciilifeform;in that one party creates the sharp broken edge, but very other people have to live with the cost. 1620941;1488410778;asciilifeform;~100% of asciilifeform's line of thought re 'trbi', from this, to the casks thing, etc., was only 'how to plug the leaks' 1620942;1488410800;asciilifeform;what are ~all~ of the places where A has the ecstasy, but B does the laundry, where A!=B 1620943;1488412461;asciilifeform;oooh gotta revisit upstack, briefly, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620677 << ~this~ in particular cannot be done as written. else, the first relayer of a freshly mined block could simply steal the work that went into determining luby(Z) and get massive head start on making his own block, which he then relays instead of the plagiarized. 1620944;1488412461;a111;Logged on 2017-03-01 19:51 asciilifeform: .... another pill against 'waltzers' : Z depends on the ~previous~ block. 1620945;1488412478;mircea_popescu;!!up john_cocktail 1620946;1488412478;deedbot;john_cocktail voiced for 30 minutes. 1620947;1488412489;asciilifeform;(the fact that the original victim could, normally, relay his original faster than a typical plagiarist could hash, is immaterial, it is still a potential vuln) 1620948;1488412530;asciilifeform;and actually now that i think about it, it'd be guaranteed-lethal 1620949;1488412558;asciilifeform;the plagiarist can make a block with higher PoW than the victim, ~every time, since he isn't handicapped by having to compute L(Z) 1620950;1488412570;asciilifeform;and reorg will favour him. 1620951;1488412579;BingoBoingo;john_cocktail: Who is your daddy and what does he do? 1620952;1488412584;mircea_popescu;that part wasn't included :p 1620953;1488412603;asciilifeform;(so L ~must~ use current block.) 1620954;1488412604;john_cocktail;i gave birth to myself 1620955;1488412606;john_cocktail;so he is i 1620956;1488412725;john_cocktail;but really, I've recently found myself reading the logs and wanted to stop by 1620957;1488412748;john_cocktail;intelligent conversation about crypto isn't easy to find, on the internet or anywhere else 1620958;1488413019;Framedragger;amen to that, mr. cocktail. 1620959;1488413028;asciilifeform;welcome , john_cocktail 1620960;1488413092;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the cure, i realized, is that ~some~ of the oldtx selected by Z must depend on value of prev block, so as to prevent waltzing of Z 'until all i need is the 10% i'm fraudulently storing instead of the 100%' . 1620961;1488413111;asciilifeform;sorta how student might get to select a few exam questions from a pool, but there are others that are mandatory. 1620962;1488413122;mircea_popescu;it;s not entirely certain this is needed, even. 1620963;1488413138;mircea_popescu;anyway, the exact way to apply luby to it prolly can take more thinking. but hte idea certainly has merit. 1620964;1488413144;asciilifeform;no, but it may be needed to get absolute certainty. 1620965;1488413236;asciilifeform;the one thing that definitely cannot be permitted to be manipulable by a waltzer is the arity. (there'd be overwhelming incentive to waltz for minimal arity) 1620966;1488413443;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1620967;1488413493;mircea_popescu;any 1620968;1488413518;mircea_popescu;anyway, re ^ : romanian mythical-hero math professor (moisil) famously allowed students to pick questions. 1620969;1488413525;mircea_popescu;"you can't know math PARTIALLY well." 1620970;1488413542;asciilifeform;pretty much 1620971;1488413563;*;asciilifeform had a prof who permitted students to bring 'all of the crib sheets and books you can carry on your miserable back, it won't help' 1620972;1488413593;asciilifeform;'bring whatever calculator, bring supercomputer if you like' 1620973;1488413600;mircea_popescu;brin ? 1620974;1488413604;asciilifeform;who else. 1620975;1488413611;mircea_popescu;aha. 1620976;1488413911;asciilifeform;but, upstack, conundrum is, if some of the oldtx depend on prevblock in a way that is known immediately when said block was mined -- it gives a head start to plagiarists ( per earlier observation -- folx who take a freshly-mined block and try to make ~replacement~ for it with higher PoW.) but if they are ~not~ immediately known, and depend in any way on waltzeable Z, then 'haha i'll waltz until it falls in my 10%'. 1620977;1488413984;mircea_popescu;however forcing one to keep A PORTION of blockchain is not altogether a bad outcome ; it is better than the current "forces to keep nothing -- and they provably, as historical fact, DID NOT!" and through lubby ensures blockchain is never lost. 1620978;1488413990;asciilifeform;so it seems to me that what remains is to up the arity -- find such arity that any attempt at such waltzing is guaranteed to be ~useless 1620979;1488414005;asciilifeform;or this. 1620980;1488414007;mircea_popescu;to make it perfectly clear -- the reason blockchain still exists today is not the 2015 miners. 1620981;1488414011;asciilifeform;yea 1620982;1488414076;asciilifeform;the snake, lost his legs, aha. 1620983;1488414081;asciilifeform;didn't need'em. 1620984;1488414111;mircea_popescu;aha 1620985;1488414597;danielpbarron;is it possible to do a lossless pruning on this lubby thing? say some chunk of data kept in an early blk.dat can be removed and the whole thing still verifies because the missing piece can be re-produced from data in more recent blk.dat ? 1620986;1488414700;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: it is possible to make a hole through a man's torso , in such a way that he does not die. but not desirable. 1620987;1488414710;mircea_popescu;deedbot to 1/3rd or such 1620988;1488414746;mircea_popescu;i mean danielpbarron 1620989;1488414817;asciilifeform;and yes you can compute the odds of a particular block B ending up wholly lubyized by a time T. however if you rely on the luby strings for your mining, you will be fucked timewise. 1620990;1488414835;asciilifeform;if you want to competitively mine, you gotta have the blox in O(1) at your fingertip. 1620991;1488414840;danielpbarron;if you don't care about mining though? 1620992;1488414863;danielpbarron;and if you ever decided to mine, you could use what you have to make the rest 1620993;1488414865;mircea_popescu;it still wouldn't be true pruning. 1620994;1488414870;mircea_popescu;just... a sort of zipping 1620995;1488414877;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is right, i waas abouittosay 1620996;1488414881;asciilifeform;it is simply compression 1620997;1488414908;asciilifeform;you replace a block you know to have been fully lubyized with a 'if you want this, go and find'. BUT what, now you have an empty string there .. 1620998;1488414913;asciilifeform;how does this save you any effort 1620999;1488414938;asciilifeform;blocks are, recall, constant size, if you want O(1) block fetching (and as a verifying node, you certainly do) you win 0 by compressing. 1621000;1488414949;asciilifeform;you still have a block-shaped hole occupying every slot. 1621001;1488414959;asciilifeform;'pruning' is for the birds, folx. 1621002;1488415005;asciilifeform;it is a notion fundamentally incompatible with sanity. 1621003;1488415068;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform without some kind of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619177 the situation is apperoximately one where naive idiots got their wish, and no bacteria exist. 1621004;1488415068;a111;Logged on 2017-02-27 16:56 mircea_popescu: but the correct trb-i might just as well end up this situation where block reward is 1mn bitcoin, and it dies within 1mn blocks. so all mining does is produce ~ a lease ~ on a chunk of bitcoin. and the value of old bitcoin is monotonically decreasing over their lifetime. 1621005;1488415080;mircea_popescu;lenin, as well as everyone else, can still be admired exactly as they were 1621006;1488415085;mircea_popescu;and an apple costs a fortune. 1621007;1488415103;asciilifeform;a nonfungible coin is not very interesting. 1621008;1488415130;asciilifeform;( i was convinced of this very quickly after coming up with my 'shitcoin' thing ) 1621009;1488415136;mircea_popescu;there is that. 1621010;1488415149;mircea_popescu;incidentally, a non-amounts coin is by definition unfungible. 1621011;1488415163;asciilifeform;well unless you also have the ring thing 1621012;1488415168;mircea_popescu;aha! 1621013;1488415173;mircea_popescu;you're starting to grok this. 1621014;1488415178;danielpbarron;that's where quality comes in. perhaps you can mix old coins with new and the result is somewhere in the middle 'age' wise. and when coin's quality reaches 0 it stops existing 1621015;1488415194;asciilifeform;that's kinda what we have now neh 1621016;1488415199;asciilifeform;dust is 'quality reached 0' 1621017;1488415219;mircea_popescu;not really. i can still send dust. 1621018;1488415257;asciilifeform;not if per-kb fee makes it -ev neh 1621019;1488415268;mircea_popescu;coin age baby. 1621020;1488415290;mircea_popescu;mindblowingly, still a thing in 2017. 1621021;1488415295;asciilifeform;miners could piss on coin age starting tonight, if they felt like it. 1621022;1488415303;mircea_popescu;but they apparently don't. 1621023;1488415317;asciilifeform;they don't, because apparently this 'bus' is ~empty 1621024;1488415331;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform freshly re-read mircea_popescu's 'empty airplanes' thing ) 1621025;1488415355;asciilifeform;it also helps that the current crop of miners is almost clinically retarded 1621026;1488415358;mircea_popescu;not a bad piece if i do say so myself. but yes, perhaps that's what it is. 1621027;1488415437;asciilifeform;but , upstack, when i think about trbi i go into 'bridge design' mode, where 'it gotta bear all of the tanks that could possibly physically fit, and then let's also assume that martians stack'em five layers deep ' 1621028;1488415450;asciilifeform;rather than the current '~nobody actually uses bitcoin' situation 1621029;1488415540;asciilifeform;idea being, any 'ecological' problem, with, e.g., algorithmic complexities as t-->+inf, can seem insignificant -- but enemy can waltz it into an actual problem. 1621030;1488415552;asciilifeform;in something short of 'ecological' timespans, even. 1621031;1488415583;asciilifeform;( witness the effects of the 900+kB of rubbish that usg is piping into each block today ) 1621032;1488417316;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: incidentally i suspect that a regenesised fork would begin to gather steam long before http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621006 . 1621033;1488417316;a111;Logged on 2017-03-02 00:38 mircea_popescu: and an apple costs a fortune. 1621034;1488417341;mircea_popescu;the principle of the thing. 1621035;1488417346;asciilifeform;( in meatspace this is also known as 'civilizational death' and happens regularly ) 1621036;1488417394;asciilifeform;explicit 'telomeres' are still mega-improvement over the old state of the art . 1621037;1488417441;asciilifeform;this goes immediately back to mircea_popescu's koschei piece. 1621038;1488417537;mircea_popescu;all the weird, pointless random shit on trilema that has nothing to do with anything! 1621039;1488417576;asciilifeform;lelz 1621040;1488417619;mircea_popescu;anyway. laterz. 1621041;1488422821;PeterL;while we are talking about things to stick in TRB-I, how about lowering the block size by an order of magnitude or so? 1621042;1488422933;PeterL;decrease the total disk usage, and improve the txn fee market, win/win, right? 1621043;1488435697;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1621044;1488435704;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1222.0, vol: 5837.97674068 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1197.001, vol: 6466.22206 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1221.8, vol: 26110.22608067 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1151.3572, vol: 5485.60340000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1223.205, vol: 2296.66480145 | Volume-weighted last average: 1210.05927445 1621045;1488435719;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all --currency eur 1621046;1488435723;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 1158.8226, vol: 5837.69994068 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 1147.846, vol: 94.73656 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 1092.7196, vol: 5482.10340000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 1154.1, vol: 8929.95910755 | Volume-weighted last average: 1138.88620387 1621047;1488435743;ben_vulpes;great 1621048;1488435746;ben_vulpes;again 1621049;1488435748;ben_vulpes;great 1621050;1488435750;ben_vulpes;again 1621051;1488436052;BingoBoingo;Make World Great Again! 1621052;1488436532;BingoBoingo;Make 2017 2013 Againe! 1621053;1488439348;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/fiat-currencies-appear-to-enter-period-of-sustained-malaise/ << Qntra - Fiat Currencies Appear To Enter Period Of Sustained Malaise 1621054;1488440965;ben_vulpes;in other truly top notch lols, "Moreover, the executive order forces Oregon to violate its own laws against discrimination, frustrating Oregon's sovereign interest in providing a welcoming home to people from all over the world" 1621055;1488440979;ben_vulpes;oregon is a sovereign, dontchaknow! has...interests! 1621056;1488441042;BingoBoingo;4 srs though, Oregon was founded to explicitly NOT be open to all 1621057;1488441052;ben_vulpes;tell a nigga bout it 1621058;1488441078;ben_vulpes;those interests are pretty much providing a home to the royal sons of whereverthefuckistan, and effete boys with which they frolic 1621059;1488451679;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/pronouncements-on-camp/ << Trilema - Pronouncements on camp 1621060;1488463558;asciilifeform;in other noose, https://archive.is/D3jVT << 'An editor on the board of a journal published by the prestigious American Psychological Association (APA) has been asked to resign in a controversy over data sharing in peer review. 1621061;1488463563;asciilifeform;Gert Storms — who says he won’t step down — is one of a few hundred scientists who have vowed that, from the start of this year, they will begin rejecting papers if authors won’t publicly share the underlying data, or explain why they can’t.' 1621062;1488463584;asciilifeform;'The journal's editor, Robert Greene, wrote back to say that Storms’s stance set “a terrible precedent” because it was unfair to the author of the paper and opposed the APA’s policies and the guidelines followed by other reviewers. “Given that your policy conflicts with that of the journal, I think that it's best that you step down from the editorial board,” he wrote.' 1621063;1488467752;asciilifeform;!!up bobbie_pasta 1621064;1488467753;deedbot;bobbie_pasta voiced for 30 minutes. 1621065;1488469075;shinohai;http://archive.is/rcxIg <<< Run Bitcoin Unlimited!!!! 1621066;1488469542;asciilifeform;!~later tell mircea_popescu how do you picture tx fee working with non-divisible coin ? 1621067;1488469542;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1621068;1488471815;mircea_popescu;i don't. 1621069;1488471859;asciilifeform;so it'd have to be one of those schemes where mining isn't even a thing; or at the very least has nothing to do with cementing tx 1621070;1488471895;*;asciilifeform does not know a working, even in principle, algo for these. 1621071;1488471905;mircea_popescu;how do you imagine tx fee working with "mining is a bug" ? 1621072;1488471909;mircea_popescu;no fees, no problem. 1621073;1488471910;asciilifeform;other than - possibly - the matrix thing 1621074;1488471939;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 'every user a currency issuer' is the only 'solution' i currently know to 'mining-is-a-bug' 1621075;1488471953;mircea_popescu;that is mathematically equivalent to "no fee". 1621076;1488471959;asciilifeform;and it rather resembles those infamous star drive engines, e.g., alcubierre's drive 1621077;1488472006;mircea_popescu;yep. i vituperated against the nonsesne in the 2011s, because well, nonsense. 1621078;1488472047;asciilifeform;one of the problems classical mined blocks solved was - universal event ordering 1621079;1488472097;mircea_popescu;quite. there's 0 incentive for people to stick to a chain otherwise. 1621080;1488472120;asciilifeform;( and again i can picture a 'coin' lacking cemented event ordering . but it would not be a 'coin' in any reasonable sense of today. only a bag full of promises. ) 1621081;1488472139;mircea_popescu;an ~unordered~ bag. 1621082;1488472142;asciilifeform;aha 1621083;1488472161;mircea_popescu;people fail to correctly comprehend the batshit insanity that is an unorderd bag because common reality graciously provides default orderings in all cases 1621084;1488472167;asciilifeform;without cemented ordering, the concept of 'double spend' cannot be defined 1621085;1488472170;mircea_popescu;this is a resource oft taken for granted 1621086;1488472176;asciilifeform;(which spend is 'the' spend? and which -- the double) 1621087;1488472299;asciilifeform;it is worth recalling the gedankenexperiment where it turns out that all you'd need to build 'martian bank' on earth, is if martians merely supplied an infallible 'martian clock', a service whereby they take a string S , at regular, say, daily, interval, and return its hash H 1621088;1488472353;asciilifeform;then you have the ordering. and 'mining' can consist of, e.g., finding twin-primes and rsa-staking the claim to them, then submitting to martiandeedbot. 1621089;1488472394;asciilifeform;( and a tx can be a once-per-Hinterval thing where you gotta roll in the previous interval's hash. and the day's tx form the day's H. ) 1621090;1488472399;asciilifeform;this is quite trivial . 1621091;1488472404;asciilifeform;but there is no martian clock. 1621092;1488472429;mircea_popescu;and timekeeping for free doesn't seem to be a tenable proposition. 1621093;1488472438;mircea_popescu;not even the marine chronometer dudes aimed to make it COSTLESS 1621094;1488472524;asciilifeform;as phf's b00k illustrates, the cost of the chronometers remained a serious boojum well into 1900s 1621095;1488472548;mircea_popescu;aha. 1621096;1488472556;asciilifeform;but even the finest handmade chronometer does not approach in cost, the cost of ~synchronization~ 1621097;1488472568;mircea_popescu;which is why there's a fee. 1621098;1488472578;asciilifeform;esp. synchronization in the face of enemy action 1621099;1488472650;mircea_popescu;no enemy can measure up to the voids. 1621100;1488472834;asciilifeform;for sake of argument, let's draw the engineless car, and then possibly one day can conceive of the engine. say all C coins exist at genesis. (how distributed to owners -- outside the scope here.) each consist of a lamport pubkey; 1621101;1488472869;asciilifeform;to spend a coin, its owner obtains (out of band) a new lamport pubkey from the new owner, and signs it. 1621102;1488472880;mircea_popescu;it's not clear what the meaning of "coin" is supposed to be without the owner. 1621103;1488472880;asciilifeform;then broadcasts this. 1621104;1488472900;asciilifeform;think of it as land. 1621105;1488472915;mircea_popescu;suppose i think of it as random strings. 1621106;1488472946;mircea_popescu;otherwise this too much resembles the ai problem of thought(); 1621107;1488472959;mircea_popescu;well... "ai" at any rate. 1621108;1488472962;asciilifeform;now, this thing just sits and rusts, because it cannot move. there is no way to prevent anybody from signing multiple, conflicting transfers. 1621109;1488472982;mircea_popescu;there is no sane way to lay claim of ownership to random strings 1621110;1488473008;mircea_popescu;and no, "i was the first to mash 1 into the kbd eighty-nine million times" is not it. 1621111;1488473037;asciilifeform;right, because the only way to demonstrate ownership is to transfer it to the party being demonstrated to. 1621112;1488473046;mircea_popescu;right, within some sort of system 1621113;1488473052;mircea_popescu;pre-defined etc. 1621114;1488473119;asciilifeform;now this car has not only no engine, but no wheels, there is no incentive for ~anybody to even try to store a coherent history of the world. 1621115;1488473133;asciilifeform;much less to do so in real time. 1621116;1488473146;mircea_popescu;the circle stayed round this time around. 1621117;1488473173;asciilifeform;now to complete this sad picture, i have nfi where to get any such thing as an engine, or wheels, for this machine. 1621118;1488473192;asciilifeform;it is approx. as interesting as davinci's chopper. 1621119;1488473207;mircea_popescu;no, because he at least had talent as a draughtsman. 1621120;1488473232;asciilifeform;aha, you won't be seeing this one in any art gallery. 1621121;1488473265;mircea_popescu;this, incidentally, is the sum-total intellectual output of tardstalk "bitcoin theory" thinking for 2011. 1621122;1488473282;asciilifeform;so afaik we're solidly stuck with ye olde tx, blocks, PoW. 1621123;1488473293;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1621124;1488473321;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i admit that i have not attempted to unearth and catalogue the 2011 folxs' attempts to square the circle. 1621125;1488473332;mircea_popescu;no loss whatever. 1621126;1488473344;asciilifeform;can only assume that if there had been some interesting find, someone here might remember it. 1621127;1488473352;asciilifeform;but afaik it summed to 0. 1621128;1488473354;mircea_popescu;i certainly would have. 1621129;1488473509;asciilifeform;and so it also appears that we're stuck living with cuttable coins. 1621130;1488473548;mircea_popescu;whether stuck or not remains debatable, but what's certain is that this gal's going straight home from the battered women shelter. 1621131;1488473553;asciilifeform;(barring some crackpotitude where you somehow buy 'casks' in bulk, a solid coin at a time ) 1621132;1488474143;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: do you have some -- rigorous or not -- idea of how 'remains debatable' ? because afaik you gotta square this circle if you want noncuttables. 1621133;1488474179;mircea_popescu;i have nfi. same way everything is done that we don't know how to do. 1621134;1488474227;asciilifeform;btw i have a terrible solution, that technically works, but is barfalicious 1621135;1488474236;asciilifeform;i wonder if by now mircea_popescu also guessed what it is. 1621136;1488474248;mircea_popescu;hm ? 1621137;1488474250;asciilifeform;morts. 1621138;1488474261;mircea_popescu;what, you want to sacrifice virgins ? 1621139;1488474273;asciilifeform;your 'fee' is a small positive probability of losing your entire tx to the miner. 1621140;1488474293;danielpbarron;heh, eulora style 1621141;1488474298;mircea_popescu;terrible profile for a paymeny medium. 1621142;1488474301;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: you folx did this?! lol!! 1621143;1488474301;mircea_popescu;but yes, eulora style. 1621144;1488474310;*;asciilifeform has ~nfi re eulora mechanics 1621145;1488474311;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'm involved, remember. 1621146;1488474321;danielpbarron;some clicks in eulora, you have no idea what comes out and most of the time you don't like it 1621147;1488474336;shinohai;^ 1621148;1488474341;asciilifeform;but yes, this is one way to pay a % of something that cannot be cut. 1621149;1488474349;asciilifeform;'you'll lose 1 of N' 1621150;1488474367;shinohai;Eulora is the perfect engine of the cardinal rule of unfairness. 1621151;1488474381;asciilifeform;at any rate i have difficulty picturing users of coin swallowing this. 1621152;1488474398;asciilifeform;(though users of suitcases of benjies do. there is a certain P of losing the payload to usg en route) 1621153;1488474405;asciilifeform;or of the boat, to the sea serpents. etc. 1621154;1488474423;danielpbarron;that isn't to say there aren't ways to find clicks that work well, or that in the long run the seemingly bad ones don't pay off 1621155;1488474427;mircea_popescu;note that boats never became currency. almost everything else did. 1621156;1488474438;mircea_popescu;there's even a piece in the founding papers about it. 1621157;1488474474;asciilifeform;to this very day satellite industry lives with payload loss P that would have been familiar to columbus. 1621158;1488474481;asciilifeform;but yes,not currency. 1621159;1488474741;asciilifeform;but, upstack, afaik the cold equations have no mercy, if you want miners to deal with tx, gotta pay fee, and fee has to somehow come out of txer's pocket . 1621160;1488474942;asciilifeform;now iirc we touched on the crackpottery where a ~tx~ carries PoW, and tx issuers somehow have to get in a single-file queue to avoid orphaning one another, and at a certain point 'lucky winner' (in practice, folx with disproportionate - a la today's miners - hash power) crosses a threshhold PoW and gets to finalize a block. 1621161;1488474973;asciilifeform;a 'cask' system would make the queue at least thinkable. but still very painful. 1621162;1488474973;mircea_popescu;it's not clear the notion oflbock is actually useful outside of "no hash per tx" sort of collectivism. 1621163;1488474985;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the ordering. 1621164;1488474985;mircea_popescu;a block is like a bus - eschews the need for every child and woman to maintain an engine. 1621165;1488474997;mircea_popescu;no, because you may require txn to include previous txn. 1621166;1488475014;mircea_popescu;tx-sized-block. 1621167;1488475027;mircea_popescu;there's no rule that this space fortress must seat > 1. 1621168;1488475043;asciilifeform;where do new coinz come from ? 1621169;1488475063;asciilifeform;( if answer is 'nowhere, all coins exist at genesis' -- we're back to the rusting engineless thing ) 1621170;1488475086;mircea_popescu;from difficulty. 1621171;1488475096;mircea_popescu;each txn gets its difficulty coins on top of whatever. 1621172;1488475125;mircea_popescu;1 btc input 1.1 btc output 10mn difficulty txn checks out. 1621173;1488475189;mircea_popescu;monetary mass at all points = aggregate difficulty to date. it's even (sanely) inflationary. 1621174;1488475200;mircea_popescu;burn a watt, get a scrip coin. 1621175;1488475226;asciilifeform;what's the incentive to relay anything ? 1621176;1488475366;asciilifeform;( other problem is that orphaning -- and, likely, of almost arbitrary length -- would be the rule, rather than the exception. ) 1621177;1488475379;mircea_popescu;yea well. 1621178;1488475393;asciilifeform;it's another 'star drive'. 1621179;1488475406;asciilifeform;'all you need is a miniature black hole and some duct tape! otherwise, 100% solid physics!1111' 1621180;1488475449;mircea_popescu;unrelatedly : both the "conservative" and the "nazi" candidates to french elections are being prosecuted by the "state" socialism for hallucinated misdeeds (they hired family members as assistents fictitiously|!11). the influence of inept obamaism and his kidnapping of french candidate last time around clearly left no scars, hurr. 1621181;1488475466;mircea_popescu;they're both pissing on the french legal system, of course. obviously trump left no marks either. 1621182;1488475468;asciilifeform;i seem to recall that it ~worked~ 1621183;1488475492;mircea_popescu;speaking of which last bit, you should see how vocal macri is these days! he's suddenly found himself very opinionated and shit! 1621184;1488475531;mircea_popescu;everyone's on all fours after the republican electorate, somehow. INEXPLICABLY, i guess, because trilema rather than the new york times told them to, and of course everyone listens to one of those not the other! 1621185;1488475544;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform from an us pov it backfired miserably. 1621186;1488475565;asciilifeform;how's that? they wanted the d00d out of the fr election -- and he was out. 1621187;1488475586;mircea_popescu;no. they wanted sarkozy, and figured taking him out would help. taking him out propelled a) hollande and b) le pen. 1621188;1488475613;mircea_popescu;neither of these are good, and in any case the us' days in europe are numbered. trump is mostly saving face with all the rhetoric. 1621189;1488475651;asciilifeform;well sorta why usg is setting off the demolition charges (the syrian horde) in eu 1621190;1488475662;asciilifeform;'we can't have it? aite, scuttling nao' 1621191;1488475688;mircea_popescu;sounds just about inept enough to have come out of the dept of state sewing circle. 1621192;1488475735;asciilifeform;the folx who could -- any day of the week -- give the order to have all 'migrants' met with flamethrowers - answer to exactly usg dos sewing circle 1621193;1488475743;asciilifeform;and so they don;t. 1621194;1488475782;mircea_popescu;this is so naive i'm not going to entertain it. let's get back to cryptocoinz naivites. 1621195;1488475888;asciilifeform;aite. but i'm all outta circle-squaring methods, having listed all of the ones i presently know of. 1621196;1488475933;*;asciilifeform bbl. 1621197;1488476936;ben_vulpes;can anyone recommend a paper or book with a rigorous definition of "computationally secure pseudo-random number generator"? 1621198;1488478192;asciilifeform;ok i cannot resist answering ben_vulpes . because he will find answer in encyclopaedia, but it will not be an actual answer, but only a thought-extinguisher. 1621199;1488478239;asciilifeform;the mandatory thread is here -- http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620768 ( and linked subthreads with mircea_popescu . ) 1621200;1488478239;a111;Logged on 2017-03-01 22:04 asciilifeform: it keeps coming back 1621201;1488478253;asciilifeform;a 'secure prng' is fundamentally THE SAME animal as the 'secure hash' and the 'secure blockcipher'. 1621202;1488478279;asciilifeform;the prng has a time parameter, but it is spurious, it is really just the same as a hash, with same requirements 1621203;1488478296;asciilifeform;in both cases, you wish to prevent inversion of the function 1621204;1488478328;asciilifeform; in the hash's case, for anyone to go from H(S) to S ; in prng -- for anyone to go from any section of the output stream, to the seed . 1621205;1488478362;asciilifeform;you can see that they are the same, because an 'ideal' prng can be trivially turned into a ciphrator; or a hasher ; 1621206;1488478381;asciilifeform;ideal hasher - into a prng (as pictured in, e.g., casks piece intro) ; an ideal cipher - into either of the two others. 1621207;1488478397;asciilifeform;they are sides of the same triangle. 1621208;1488478474;asciilifeform;however the triangle is imaginary, because -- as you will learn from the linked thread tree earlier (and not from any public literature ! elsewhere afaik) -- we know about complexity classes , as discovered by cook et al ; but we do NOT know of any means of generating ~instances~ of problems falling into given class with ~guaranteed~ average-case hardness. 1621209;1488478584;mircea_popescu;average case is a cop out. 1621210;1488478591;mircea_popescu;easiest case lower bound is the requirement. 1621211;1488478599;mircea_popescu;hardest case upper bound is the discussion literature 1621212;1488478616;asciilifeform;aha, hardest-case is ~entirely uninteresting in crypto 1621213;1488478638;mircea_popescu;they are discussing "how easy it is" and mislabel it as "how hard it is". but at no point is their discussion actually about how hard anything is. 1621214;1488478640;asciilifeform;however mircea_popescu , this is not quite right, the 'lower bound' is always O(1) for the d00d who knows the key ! 1621215;1488478660;asciilifeform;and the d00d who does ~not~ know the key, has a nonzero P of guessing whole thing ! 1621216;1488478662;mircea_popescu;easiest nondegenerate case lower bound 1621217;1488478665;asciilifeform;so it is always a matter of avg case. 1621218;1488478690;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the value of a winning lottery ticket = the value of the prize. lucky guys are worth money. 1621219;1488478701;asciilifeform;what you want to prove (and nobody has, for any system) is that the necessary work is equivalent to brute force guess. 1621220;1488478720;mircea_popescu;that';d work. 1621221;1488478775;asciilifeform; ( according to maslennikov, kgb directorate of crypto struggled with the fundamental boojum and simply gave up, and turned to turd polishing ) 1621222;1488478819;asciilifeform;logicgate-poverty, according to him, prevented asymmetric crypto from taking off in su, and so this ^ was the obsession. for a while. 1621223;1488478968;asciilifeform;upstack : ben_vulpes : the 'triangle' is aka 'trapdoor function', and it is not known whether they actually exist. ( folx go around pretending that they exist. does not make it so. ) 1621224;1488478992;mircea_popescu;the entire story of the "olympiad problems" (the fly between trains thing et al) is a fine indication of just how hard this sort of thing is, irl. 1621225;1488479026;asciilifeform;much of academitard 'cryptography' is an elaborate dance around the fact that nobody knows, publicly, of any solid axioms that were unknown to von neumann. 1621226;1488479039;mircea_popescu;which is why "solve problem x" is undergraduate work ; prove solution is optimal is lifetime work. 1621227;1488479053;asciilifeform;aha. 1621228;1488479073;asciilifeform;sometimes 'prove that a solution ~exists~ is lifetime work. 1621229;1488479081;asciilifeform;or 10 lifetimes. 1621230;1488479093;mircea_popescu;in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women. 1621231;1488479356;shinohai;I recently watched that new Hemingway movie .... it was mildly entertaining. 1621232;1488479380;shinohai;Coulda been the rum that made it palatable though. 1621233;1488479536;mircea_popescu;new ? hasn't he been dead for 50 years ? 1621234;1488479898;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: ty, mircea_popescu's line that '(I suspect USGtards would call it a "PRNG")' had me thinking in that line 1621235;1488480763;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the few honest cryptographers that exist, will prove that your arse is staked on ~this here~ set of unproven conjectures, and nothing else. 1621236;1488480781;asciilifeform;but this is small comfort, just like to say that honest undertaker will at least make sure you are actually dead before burying 1621237;1488480885;asciilifeform;incidentally if you can prove that trapdoors exist, you've necessarily proven that P!=NP. 1621238;1488480956;mircea_popescu;incidentally, this discussion vaguely reminds me of pound 1621239;1488480967;mircea_popescu;"i will know what part of poetry can NOT be lost in translation." 1621240;1488481368;BingoBoingo; in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women. << Beer goggles 1621241;1488481393;BingoBoingo; new ? hasn't he been dead for 50 years ? << Ate an abercrombie and fitch shotgun, likely movie about the guy 1621242;1488481397;mircea_popescu;but pound didn't drink and did you see what fucking chinplowers he hang out with ? 1621243;1488481421;mircea_popescu;i dunno why they even make these women that are half chin. 1621244;1488481466;BingoBoingo;Well, chin is like an off switch 1621245;1488481490;mircea_popescu;ha 1621246;1488481496;BingoBoingo;Just apply torque! 1621247;1488481527;mircea_popescu;are you suggesting they're trying to capture more torque from environment ? adaptative megalochin ? 1621248;1488481565;BingoBoingo;Maybe? Maybe hemmingways select womyn for chin, because easy to turn off when aggitated? 1621249;1488481587;mircea_popescu;cuz blurry vision cuz whisky ? 1621250;1488481653;BingoBoingo;AHA, just like large print text 1621251;1488482411;ben_vulpes;https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-announce&m=148839684520133&w=2 1621252;1488482425;ben_vulpes;open bsd mitm 1621253;1488482467;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i dun even grasp how this is a vuln, it isn't as if 802.11 has rsa-authenticated endpoints to begin with 1621254;1488482516;asciilifeform;'toy crypto auth is slightly easier to forge than the usual five minutes', noose at eleven. 1621255;1488482684;*;BingoBoingo assumed WPA was routinely MITM'd for what it is 1621256;1488482693;mircea_popescu;incidentally re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621225 : a large part of the stagnancy in applied number theory for the past ... o hey, it's a century soon! has to do with everyone wanting to do the work without doing the work. 1621257;1488482693;a111;Logged on 2017-03-02 18:23 asciilifeform: much of academitard 'cryptography' is an elaborate dance around the fact that nobody knows, publicly, of any solid axioms that were unknown to von neumann. 1621258;1488482710;mircea_popescu;it seems altogether unlikely this particular truth will come out of more futzing with algebraic strucutres 1621259;1488482724;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: spot on, as always 1621260;1488482735;mircea_popescu;but the lazy just won't let go of the holy ring. the idle complification, towards vector spaces, latices et all is just the toil of avoiding doing any work. 1621261;1488482757;ben_vulpes;also http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39140100 1621262;1488482844;asciilifeform;lel nato-lite 1621263;1488482905;mircea_popescu;lmao. 1621264;1488482918;mircea_popescu;i hope they're only drafting women, yes ? 1621265;1488482925;ben_vulpes;in which donny t demonstrates complete twitter mastery: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/836933725602656256 1621266;1488482927;mircea_popescu;why the fuck would a male as much as spit for sweden 1621267;1488483498;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PArAt/?raw=true 1621268;1488483498;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1621269;1488483552;mircea_popescu;in random lulz re the luminaries of this so called english literature and their chinxcavator belles : ezra pound had some 23yo named dorothy dropped on his head by her mother ; he also was fucking olga the violinist, who some friends dropped on his head when he was complaining he's been in paris for months and doesn't even have a mistress. 1621270;1488483590;mircea_popescu;olga got caught, and delivered a daughter in summer 1925, which she didn't really feel like raising. ezra told dorothy later that year ; she left for egypt *by herself* and came back next march. pregnant. 1621271;1488483607;mircea_popescu;kid, named omar, went to be raised in england. 1621272;1488483666;mircea_popescu;by you know, the rich mother of the wife-slut. other kid (mary) grew up without shoes in the house of a peasant, who was paid 20 bux a month for it. 1621273;1488483723;BingoBoingo;ty shinohai 1621274;1488483774;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/hoaxtoshi-returns-with-fiatist-patent-wank-forgets-tissues/ << Qntra - Hoaxtoshi Returns With Fiatist Patent Wank, Forgets Tissues 1621275;1488483786;mircea_popescu;lmao 1621276;1488484285;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1621277;1488484291;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1268.12, vol: 6613.32714439 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1251.287, vol: 8253.53327 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1269.9, vol: 29174.75084658 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1161.165852, vol: 6892.66030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1260.493, vol: 2777.56509707 | Volume-weighted last average: 1252.38075479 1621278;1488484303;BingoBoingo;Dat stabilitit 1621279;1488487144;mircea_popescu;and in other americana, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6775e30043c1371eb7e80f4eec3d372c/tumblr_mlbbe3Vl5q1rgz1hoo1_1280.jpg 1621280;1488487327;ben_vulpes;awwww ye 1621281;1488487732;asciilifeform;q for prbologists, entomologists : why is schnorr signature algo so attractive to the prb folx ? 1621282;1488487786;asciilifeform;( iirc it is simply a variant of ecdsa. ) 1621283;1488487840;mircea_popescu;simplest ? 1621284;1488487858;mircea_popescu;expired patent just about the time iirc 1621285;1488487891;mircea_popescu;there's this nonsensical view that recently-expired patents are better tech because you know, "newer" (than older expired patents, presumably, for whatever sense this makes) 1621286;1488487914;asciilifeform;why would a coin implementer give half a fuck re patents 1621287;1488487928;asciilifeform;what is this, the gif wars ? 1621288;1488487929;mircea_popescu;same reason he'd write against windows c. 1621289;1488487937;asciilifeform;nuts. 1621290;1488488004;asciilifeform;the 'let's use anything, ANYTHING but rsa' thing really grates on me. 1621291;1488488028;mircea_popescu;on the face. there may be some merit to it in that : a) the chinese are mentally dull. i mean this specifically in the sense of chinese born baby ~= piece of furniture, funcially incapable of either finding a novel idea, evaluating it, or figuring out off own steam that should do this ; b) the euros are cuckolds. this means they're less likely to consider idea if the womenz boo hoo than if the womenz don't boo hoo ; c) the wo 1621292;1488488028;mircea_popescu;menz boo hoo certain things, so satoshi ends up following. 1621293;1488488039;mircea_popescu;it's inexcusable, but either a or b may explain. 1621294;1488488053;asciilifeform;usa is a mighty twin-engined lulzengine of a+b. 1621295;1488488132;mircea_popescu;ah listen, there's also http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/029.pdf 1621296;1488488272;asciilifeform;i'ma put this on the conveyor 1621297;1488488293;asciilifeform;but the result of reading this (spoiler!) for asciilifeform is usually mega-disappointment 1621298;1488488364;asciilifeform;'based on these unproven conjectures, and one or more unproven conjectures on which our logic relies, and one or more circularly-defined conditions, this scheme is secure, for our toy definition of secure that we will not share' 1621299;1488488415;asciilifeform;aaaaaanything, anything to avoid handing giving back the yet-unfucked-once pig back to the late von neumann, and going back to sweeping airport floor. 1621300;1488488473;mircea_popescu;better than most. 1621301;1488488501;mircea_popescu;iirc guy showes group homomorphisms offer no better. 1621302;1488488543;mircea_popescu;but decent overall discussion. 1621303;1488489019;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what means "giving back the yet-unfucked-once ping back to the late von neumann"? 1621304;1488489023;ben_vulpes;pig* 1621305;1488489035;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: 0 provable improvements on otp. 1621306;1488489041;asciilifeform;oooh hey hey hey lbj. i finally found out why prb folx like schnorr. 1621307;1488489043;ben_vulpes;ah 1621308;1488489067;asciilifeform;aaaapparently it is supposed to be homomorphic over multisigulation. i.e. you can glom multiple sigs of same string into 'one value'. 1621309;1488489093;asciilifeform;classic prbism -- where is the proof that this does not create a phantom n+1st 'signer' ? 1621310;1488489098;asciilifeform;( who can then spend . ) 1621311;1488489155;asciilifeform;' but oh, we'll save some bits!! ' 1621312;1488489179;asciilifeform;' but of course not by abolishing 'scripts' or preventing spamolade tx, that'd be racist ' 1621313;1488489783;ben_vulpes;https://gradybritton.com/advertising/engaging-political-action-brand-rising-noise-without-alienating-consumers-2/ solid chuckles 1621314;1488489814;ben_vulpes;the other day, one of these wha ads streaked across my vision and i was amused at how /female/ the campaign is 1621315;1488489827;ben_vulpes;"in the pussy? in the mouth? in the butt? YES." 1621316;1488489892;ben_vulpes;cracks in the edifice of ideological hegemony are starting to show, though: "You have the choice between standing for a cause or standing against whoever disagrees with you. One choice may result in a boycott. The other can build a bridge." 1621317;1488489958;veen;linked from above: http://www.breitbart.com/dumpkelloggs/ << "bigotry at your breakfast table" haw haw 1621318;1488490063;ben_vulpes;"tearing libtards arms off and beating them to death with them since before you quit facebook" 1621319;1488490398;trinque;remember that country that cared whether a breakfast cereal company had a political opinion? 1621320;1488490400;trinque;neither do I. 1621321;1488490438;ben_vulpes;i like my highly-refined corn byproducts generously seasoned with WOKE 1621322;1488490500;ben_vulpes;it's how i differentiate myself from the basket of undesirables; their hrcb comes with penises which is just i can't even 1621323;1488490655;trinque;in other news, BingoBoingo's deed txn 771d53910d31b6cc038d457f57579ef60da9b29271a6e5f82df0ec8e9e32c50b has yet to confirm. I might have to increase deed fee a tad. 1621324;1488490681;trinque;this is shocking because I hear there's no fee market!11!1 1621325;1488490684;trinque;lol 1621326;1488491339;veen;in other outdoor recreation of yesteryear, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdycwgRQ1N1rlsqyto1_1280.jpg 1621327;1488491397;danielpbarron;mega-vibrator 1621328;1488491529;ben_vulpes;see also http://imgur.com/a/jiX1g 1621329;1488492008;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes the stuff you read 1621330;1488492077;mircea_popescu;grady fucking britton ? holy hell. 1621331;1488492213;mircea_popescu;been in business for what, 50 years, NEVER did anything above "the Random Q Nobody Highschool 10 Year Reunion" complete set of flyers + leaflets PLUS those napkin paper rings! 1621332;1488492252;veen;they're on the map here for the 'planned parenthood by any other name' campaign 1621333;1488492330;mircea_popescu;they're on the map in new york as "those dumb broads from almost west coast". at some point people were writing fanfic they're so ridoinculous. 1621334;1488492338;mircea_popescu;WHAT WOULD GRADY BRITT DO! 1621335;1488492466;mircea_popescu;trinque> this is shocking because I hear there's no fee market!11!1 << zing 1621336;1488492498;mircea_popescu;veen you'd think the god damned bears of yesteryear would fucking shave before going within inches of a glorified lawnmower 1621337;1488492500;mircea_popescu;but naaaaw 1621338;1488492515;mircea_popescu;their mommy gave them that bush and by god they'll take it to paradise via the retirement home! 1621339;1488492583;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i am but a lol-sniffing pig of the web 1621340;1488492601;mircea_popescu;butt alol! 1621341;1488493304;ben_vulpes;i have no butt and i must lol 1621342;1488494532;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: might be interesting to add fee plot to your block viewer tool 1621343;1488494551;asciilifeform;( how many satoshi/byte avg ? median ? how many free riders..? etc ) 1621344;1488494559;mircea_popescu;^ 1621345;1488494636;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621317 << january noose neh 1621346;1488494636;a111;Logged on 2017-03-02 21:25 veen: linked from above: http://www.breitbart.com/dumpkelloggs/ << "bigotry at your breakfast table" haw haw 1621347;1488494809;ben_vulpes;yeah, that does sound useful 1621348;1488495744;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://kukuruku.co/post/the-collapse-of-the-unix-philosophy 1621349;1488495792;mircea_popescu;o look, i can read the stuff from the chan on websites a few months later now! well done team andreesseen! totally made a difference! 1621350;1488495811;asciilifeform;the dung beetles, gotta roll dung 1621351;1488495841;mircea_popescu;"This article was written hastily, and I don’t want to further improve it. You’re lucky I wrote it. Therefore, I may provide some facts without source links." << i lolled. and also lost interest. 1621352;1488495849;mircea_popescu;!#s zuleika 1621353;1488495850;a111;0 results for "zuleika", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=zuleika 1621354;1488495861;mircea_popescu;anyone familiar with the story of zuleika dobson ? 1621355;1488495877;*;asciilifeform isn't 1621356;1488495906;mircea_popescu;not entirely terrible early 1900s parody of early 2000s hollywood 1621357;1488495958;mircea_popescu;anyway, it's about a girl who can't take seriously any online dweebs who attempt to immitate her style without comprehending the substance and under the guise of a very thin excuse omit to address their thanks plainly. or something like that. 1621358;1488495985;asciilifeform;my stack overflowed parsing that 1621359;1488495992;mircea_popescu;kinda the point. 1621360;1488496644;asciilifeform;'As we’ve already seen in the example with /etc/passwd, the widespread use of plain text can lead to performance problems. ' << and dynamically loaded crapolade, orc-glyphs-in-everything, dbus, et al -- don't, apparently ?! 1621361;1488496657;*;asciilifeform barfs the thing back out 1621362;1488496690;asciilifeform;' It would be much easier if we used JSON or XML for system configs. Or maybe some binary format. Especially for those configs that are constantly read by different programs. As a result, they need a good read rate (it’s higher in binary formats).' << gold. 1621363;1488496700;asciilifeform;somebody help d00d install winblowz, apparently he had problem..? 1621364;1488496748;asciilifeform;'We need LC_ALL here to be sure that the date will take exactly three words in the output of ls.' << this is exactly the plasma tv raft from mircea_popescu's article with the crazy woman 1621365;1488496776;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 << 1621366;1488496776;a111;Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b 1621367;1488496827;mircea_popescu;hey that's a pretty good simile. 1621368;1488496902;asciilifeform;'linux suxx because you will be covered in shit, that we made sure to smear on every floor time and furniture inside it, it should be more like microshit' 1621369;1488496908;asciilifeform;*floor tile 1621370;1488496981;*;asciilifeform maxed dosimeter. bbl. 1621371;1488501449;ben_vulpes;> I guess and I don't bother to check, so check it yourself 1621372;1488501457;ben_vulpes;nope and nope. 1621373;1488502194;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://www.qsl.net/k/k0ff//old%20files/1C%20Working%20Copy/yyy/ 1621374;1488503572;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5134FB86F39E49F32E728CE8F77F4767707BF27E853C9237FBC4323D63AFE9C1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1156...8047 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.254.50.147 (ssh-rsa key from 178.254.50.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (kachelofen-profis.de. DE) 1621375;1488503572;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5134FB86F39E49F32E728CE8F77F4767707BF27E853C9237FBC4323D63AFE9C1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1047...4447 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.254.50.147 (ssh-rsa key from 178.254.50.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (kachelofen-profis.de. DE) 1621376;1488503700;mircea_popescu;http://www.qsl.net/k/k0ff//old%20files/1C%20Working%20Copy/yyy/Cyclotron/TR%2030%20Cyclotron.htm << therer's something for alf 1621377;1488503712;mircea_popescu;looks like it might fit a double garage / yacht barn 1621378;1488503820;mircea_popescu;proven reliability and windows 2000 1621379;1488503826;ben_vulpes;> TR 30 uses the familiar Windows 2000 operating system with graphical representations of the entire radiochemical process 1621380;1488504823;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/02/wasting-time/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Wasting time. 1621381;1488505034;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in monkeystan, https://southfront.org/steam-store-removes-syrian-warfare-game-because-its-too-pro-russian 1621382;1488505208;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB6C3A426BFB76932E8872E99E2D52B9D8DD7824FF6B1CE792294B78B122AD0C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1772...6483 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '218.189.190.58 (ssh-rsa key from 218.189.190.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown HK) 1621383;1488505208;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB6C3A426BFB76932E8872E99E2D52B9D8DD7824FF6B1CE792294B78B122AD0C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1400...9707 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '218.189.190.58 (ssh-rsa key from 218.189.190.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown HK) 1621384;1488505568;mircea_popescu;where "too pro russian" means about the same as "too pornographic" : there's ANY item where the eternally losing side irl fails to win in fantasy. 1621385;1488505945;asciilifeform;approx 1621386;1488505957;asciilifeform;linked mainly for the 'bitlove' approach 1621387;1488505970;asciilifeform;or what was it called, that derp 1621388;1488505990;asciilifeform;( here , role was played by 'czech co' ) 1621389;1488507895;shinohai;http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/455450 <<< Boy does ViaBTC love mining dem empty blocks 1621390;1488507903;shinohai;!!up john_cocktail 1621391;1488507904;deedbot;john_cocktail voiced for 30 minutes. 1621392;1488509104;asciilifeform;lol , 'fee market' aha. 1621393;1488509224;shinohai;Bitcoin Unlimited gonna fix all our problemz with "Parallel Validation" http://archive.is/664nt 1621394;1488509242;john_cocktail;lel 1621395;1488509451;asciilifeform;shinohai: lel, 'sibling blocks' 1621396;1488509472;asciilifeform;and, mega-unsurprise, 0 mention of the actual bottleneck (db) 1621397;1488509496;john_cocktail;who cares if takes a day to validate a block? 1621398;1488509511;asciilifeform;betcha mircea_popescu had nfi that there could be such a thing as 'sibling blocks' !111 1621399;1488509561;asciilifeform;john_cocktail: recall how difficulty is derived ? 1621400;1488510661;trinque;asciilifeform: so you disagree with the diminishing block reward, or what? 1621401;1488510853;asciilifeform;trinque: no, consider what happens ( in bitcoin ) if block takes longer to verify than to produce . 1621402;1488510872;asciilifeform;consistently. 1621403;1488510903;trinque;I'm only commenting that it's factual that fees have been increasing for years 1621404;1488510964;asciilifeform;trinque: it is true! but at the same time they mine empty blocks, and blocks full of free-tx.. 1621405;1488511006;trinque;dunno that it's the same "they". folks gunning for idiocies like "unlimited" might be mining empty blocks for political reasons 1621406;1488511014;asciilifeform;what i'd like to learn is, whether fee-per-ullage-byte has moved. and in what direction. 1621407;1488511038;asciilifeform;(i.e. fee earner by miners per available byte of space . ) 1621408;1488511044;shinohai;trinque: that is precisely why ViaBTC does it. 1621409;1488511092;trinque;ah, idiots. 1621410;1488511229;asciilifeform;trinque: the full blox are also full 'for political reasons' ( usg spamolade ) 1621411;1488511256;asciilifeform;quite likely why the old-coins-move-for-free thing still exists. 1621412;1488511266;trinque;having watched deedbot transactions for quite a while, I can at least say that once 0.001 fee confirmed almost immediately 1621413;1488511284;trinque;now it's looking like I'll need at least 0.0015 to 0.002 to get in 1621414;1488511313;trinque;asciilifeform: that rule is certainly idiotic, "coin age" wtf 1621415;1488511320;shinohai;Use the sooper-dooper tx accelerator ! https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/ 1621416;1488511358;asciilifeform;trinque: if blocks were crowded on account of actual people, the free tx thing would be a distant memory 1621417;1488511391;asciilifeform;as would the empties. 1621418;1488511490;trinque;hm. no, I see your point. the "market" being mostly determined by malefactors burning govt funding. 1621419;1488511529;trinque;though while difficulty increases (and block size stays the same) I don't see how even these will not be forced into paying higher fees. 1621420;1488511540;trinque;shinohai: lol wtf is this 1621421;1488511553;trinque;I can beg my way into one of their "unlimited" blocks? 1621422;1488511622;asciilifeform;trinque: they are paying, mainly, into own pockets 1621423;1488511701;shinohai;Their diatribe under the "Service Statement" is lulzy 1621424;1488511728;asciilifeform;( the cost, to the attacker pools, of tape-painting tx, is supposed to be 'they forgo fees from actual people', but there is very little pressure from actual-people. ergo this 'cost' is ~0, i suspect. ) 1621425;1488511877;asciilifeform;the conclusion asciilifeform draws from the continued existence of emptyblox and oldcoinfreetxen is 'most tx are usg-authored spamola'. other folx - can draw other conclusions, if they want. 1621426;1488511960;asciilifeform;i still remember when blox moved from ~200kB to ~full-but-often-null in ~day. and stayed there. 1621427;1488511998;asciilifeform;but we're expected to believe that it was simply martians taking a sudden liking to bitcoin that one day, aha. 1621428;1488512015;asciilifeform;( that day and since ! ) 1621429;1488518131;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/97BFAA99282B3EA718AA6A383643A27E4D4644E31FF26A2AC46242BE6AF3D41D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1643...9199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.200.170.201 (ssh-rsa key from 89.200.170.201 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1621430;1488518131;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/97BFAA99282B3EA718AA6A383643A27E4D4644E31FF26A2AC46242BE6AF3D41D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1745...6759 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.200.170.201 (ssh-rsa key from 89.200.170.201 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1621431;1488518131;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/776EEEE0F58AAB3BD6BCD82FF57A8837958B50CCCBE92F530D3962AD1C97F021 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1651...6077 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.8.98 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.8.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (xvm-8-98.ghst.net. FR) 1621432;1488518131;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/776EEEE0F58AAB3BD6BCD82FF57A8837958B50CCCBE92F530D3962AD1C97F021 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1781...4887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.8.98 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.8.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (xvm-8-98.ghst.net. FR) 1621433;1488539352;thestringpuller;snapchat surges 44% and they call facebook a bubble. for anyone calling for baby boomers to be sent to gitmo, I'd rather send the millennials first. 1621434;1488539367;thestringpuller;called* 1621435;1488541244;mircea_popescu;trinque> hm. no, I see your point. the "market" being mostly determined by malefactors burning govt funding. << sadly the ONLY pill to this is an end to "humanism" and thereby "our democracy" resulting in mass poverty, not mass consumerism. 1621436;1488541261;mircea_popescu;because for as long as the chicken brained have a dollar, they will pool that dollar to get shit like britney spears on the air. 1621437;1488541316;mircea_popescu;for very strictly the reason that "patriotism", ie http://trilema.com/2014/the-death-of-taxes/#selection-189.0-189.233 1621438;1488541319;mircea_popescu;so it'll be a while. 1621439;1488541395;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> but we're expected to believe that it was simply martians taking a sudden liking to bitcoin that one day, aha. << this is not at all incredible. on the contrary. most people who liked a cult hit band "can still remember the day last week when it was just me and that guy with the weird nose at the concerts, now look around". 1621440;1488541405;mircea_popescu;this is EXACTLY how popularity works in "ourdemocracy" flat societies. 1621441;1488546483;shinohai;!~ticker --market all 1621442;1488546490;jhvh1;shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1286.36, vol: 9017.32619933 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1263.661, vol: 10114.64726 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1289.7, vol: 32271.81570078 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1207.7415, vol: 10316.74800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1282.66, vol: 3666.02696802 | Volume-weighted last average: 1271.88522099 1621443;1488547249;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621436 << the chickens ain't txing. no moar so today than in '11. 1621444;1488547249;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 11:41 mircea_popescu: because for as long as the chicken brained have a dollar, they will pool that dollar to get shit like britney spears on the air. 1621445;1488547273;asciilifeform;chickens move imaginary coinz between goxes. 1621446;1488551580;asciilifeform;in very other lulzies, https://archive.is/on8dl >> 'Obama holdover David Laufman is the source of the national security leaks, Cernovich Media can exclusively report. David Laufman, Chief of Counterintelligence, has all classified information regarding espionage pass by his desk. ... Laufman, who had donated to Obama’s presidential campaign fund in past election cycles, was the DOJ official who investigated Hillary Clinton in what 1621447;1488551580;asciilifeform;was promised to be an independent investigation. How an Obama donor could be trusted to investigate Obama’s heir apparent was never explored by the fake news media. Even worse is that as Chief of Counterintelligence, Laufman has the power to kill any investigations into leaks, a power he has been exercising.' 1621448;1488553100;asciilifeform;!$ ssh 178.254.50.147 218.189.190.58 89.200.170.201 92.243.8.98 1621449;1488553100;scriba;ssh banner of 178.254.50.147 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-3 1621450;1488553102;scriba;ssh banner of 218.189.190.58 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 1621451;1488553103;scriba;ssh banner of 89.200.170.201 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 1621452;1488553105;scriba;ssh banner of 92.243.8.98 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.6p1 Debian-5ubuntu0.1 1621453;1488553109;asciilifeform;lel 1621454;1488554249;shinohai;https://twitter.com/AssStar_0_/status/779926185140690944/photo/1 <<< Novel vending machine 1621455;1488555310;asciilifeform;'Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) spoke twice last year with Russia’s ambassador to the United States, Justice Department officials said, encounters he did not disclose when asked about possible contacts between members of President Trump’s campaign and representatives of Moscow during Sessions’s confirmation hearing to become attorney general.' 1621456;1488555324;asciilifeform;so now they're flynning him also. 1621457;1488555435;asciilifeform;'officials said' 1621458;1488557736;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621348 << curl https://kukuruku.co/post/the-collapse-of-the-unix-philosophy/|tr 'A-Z' 'a-z'|awk 'BEGIN{RS=" "} /json/{print $0}'|wc -l 1621459;1488557736;a111;Logged on 2017-03-02 23:02 asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://kukuruku.co/post/the-collapse-of-the-unix-philosophy 1621460;1488557757;phf;outputs 14. ahokthen 1621461;1488557883;asciilifeform;lul 1621462;1488557986;shinohai;xD 1621463;1488558328;shinohai;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C56eQxsXEAEdOmh.jpg <<< This is just too goddamned funny 1621464;1488558431;phf;ihttp://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620670 << i've had similar experience before. girl does that "can i be an extra person in your tribe" thing, hovering, circling, eyeing. so me and my girl will approach, just for the girl to run away in panic. we call it gazel hunting. i've noticed the more "selling it" girl looks, the more likely she's to panic when approached by guy AND girl. incidently i don't know any strippers who look like strippers off work. but i've m 1621465;1488558431;a111;Logged on 2017-03-01 19:41 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-the-scared-slut/ << Trilema - The Story of the scared slut. 1621466;1488558526;phf;..but i've met plenty of dumb girls who dress like one, because i suppose that's how they attract dat dream guy from a porn video. the miami bouncer dude. 1621467;1488559374;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1621468;1488559380;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1271.48, vol: 9362.60194916 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1258.226, vol: 9424.34185 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1280.2, vol: 31000.37504954 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1200.3071, vol: 10952.01210000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1271.07, vol: 3600.87487346 | Volume-weighted last average: 1261.60204315 1621469;1488560070;phf;in unrelated lulz, i decided to use airbnb, and got fucked on the first transaction 1621470;1488560118;asciilifeform;phf: paid but no room ? or rat-infested pit ? or which 1621471;1488560214;phf;host listed a price, and after confirmation informed that i'm only getting half of what i asked for ("oh it's one bed per one room, you need to purchase another room to get second bed") 1621472;1488560265;phf;so i canceled, but of course airbnb eats the "service fees". getting them to refund service fees is impossible. ticket stuck in support limbo for past 5 days. 1621473;1488560354;asciilifeform;the classical 'kickstarter' business model -- 'hey, it ain't ~us~ defrauding you, it's this stable of monkeys over there, you agreed to trust them' 1621474;1488560506;phf;aye 1621475;1488560562;phf;and host listed just a handful of dollars below budget hotel option for the area, so clearly knew what she was doing 1621476;1488560743;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621464 << lel, this happens to asciilifeform/pet regularly. i think of it as 'yes there are fast neutrons wherever you are, but go and extract useful energy from'em' 1621477;1488560743;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 16:27 phf: ihttp://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620670 << i've had similar experience before. girl does that "can i be an extra person in your tribe" thing, hovering, circling, eyeing. so me and my girl will approach, just for the girl to run away in panic. we call it gazel hunting. i've noticed the more "selling it" girl looks, the more likely she's to panic when approached by guy AND girl. incidently i don't know any strippers who look like strippers off work. but i've m 1621478;1488560924;phf;http://www.tedunangst.com/flak/post/shrt-nms-fr-clrty is also ranting re "meaningful unix names" and "intuitive for new users" 1621479;1488560925;asciilifeform;( speaking of which, i finally score a thallium-doped cesium iodide scintillator pre-bonded to big fat photodiode. finally can read spectra. ) 1621480;1488561014;asciilifeform;phf: subvariant of the 'why does emacs not use ibm's standard keystrokes!!' people. 1621481;1488561030;asciilifeform;'why do you dumb orcs not simply speak the king's english' 1621482;1488561185;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/a-very-special-news-roundup-xtend-sweden-conscripts-media-turns-to-praise-trump-while-knifing-cabinet-foreign-influence-in-french-election-overt/ << Qntra - A Very Special News Roundup Xtend: Sweden Conscripts, Media Turns To Praise Trump While Knifing Cabinet, Foreign Influence In French Election Overt 1621483;1488561246;phf;"lispjobs" that's traditionally a place, where one posts rare and meaty common lisp and sometimes scheme jobs is now full of clojure work. last one is "clojure and clojurescript web developer" 1621484;1488561256;asciilifeform;phf: only now?! 1621485;1488561274;asciilifeform;i thought the plague came in '09 and never left. 1621486;1488561280;phf;well, it's been the case for about two years now, but that's the first time i put it in logs :> 1621487;1488561296;asciilifeform;dunno that i've ever seen such a thing as a 'common lisp or scheme job' advertised publicly. 1621488;1488561407;phf;huh, you're right, 2009-12 is 3 clojure to 4 common lisp 1621489;1488561450;phf;in fact one of those is https://lispjobs.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/first-clojure-job-posting-ft-lauderdale-usa/ 1621490;1488561547;phf;catching up with rss and some of the log linked articles is literally like taking a bath of shit. 1621491;1488561624;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621443 that's trivially disproven, eg by http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619097 1621492;1488561624;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 13:20 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621436 << the chickens ain't txing. no moar so today than in '11. 1621493;1488561624;a111;Logged on 2017-02-27 16:27 shinohai: https://twitter.com/crainbf/status/836170461016903680 1621494;1488561676;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: twatter lament re 'oh noez blox soo crowded' is disproof nao ? 1621495;1488561720;asciilifeform;seems trivially filipinoizable. 1621496;1488561745;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621445 << this made no sense whatsoever 1621497;1488561745;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 13:21 asciilifeform: chickens move imaginary coinz between goxes. 1621498;1488561755;trinque;they at least do the transfers between goxes on chain 1621499;1488561767;trinque;no, the conspiracy goes to 11!1!11!! 1621500;1488561780;asciilifeform;trinque: i mean to say, moving, e.g., btc-e balances from eth to ltc and back etc. 1621501;1488561786;asciilifeform;and similar. 1621502;1488561788;trinque;sure, that. 1621503;1488561826;trinque;though honestly, where's the LIGHTNING TRANSFER announcement, whereby the various exchanges link up for "faster transfers between exchanges" 1621504;1488561837;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform guy did in fact buy his pair of sneakers or w/e, 25 bux 1621505;1488561863;mircea_popescu;trinque you old enough to recall mtgox dollars ? 1621506;1488561872;asciilifeform;trinque: i must confess, i have not been keeping up with the fauxcoinz 1621507;1488561898;trinque;mircea_popescu: when people were selling their balances at a discount towards the end? 1621508;1488561943;asciilifeform;( https://blockchain.info/tx/5da9e054f81716ff54fefa10fae3c025685faf5170d1b270b3384a3406d781e0 << typical example of tx spamola, in recent few blox. and yes i'd rather link to mimisbrunnr but it does not seem to have linkable tx knob presently. ) 1621509;1488561963;mircea_popescu;phf the stripper offwork thing is a toss-up i guess. it depends a lot on the environment or something ; i've known both kinds, ie "girl next door by day champion stripper by night" as well as "stripping is my whole life and my car plates read TITTY" 1621510;1488561982;mircea_popescu;trinque no, early on you could buy mtgox-issued dollar certs, they'd honor them. 1621511;1488561994;mircea_popescu;people did a lot of "i'll send you mtgoxdollars" 1621512;1488562019;trinque;hilarious 1621513;1488562027;trinque;never an original bad idea 1621514;1488562040;mircea_popescu;BACK THEN the pretense to "we are bitcoin revolutionz blabla" could be maintained. and strictly for such reasons. 1621515;1488562490;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621456 << trump side is leaking names, i expect it's a lot more likely "career civil servants" will start geting foreclosing notices. 1621516;1488562490;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 15:35 asciilifeform: so now they're flynning him also. 1621517;1488562542;Framedragger;heh i recall buying some electronics at ccc in hamburg by doing a live transfer from mtgox. those were the funny days 1621518;1488562597;trinque;asciilifeform: entirely likely trump canned flynn because he lied to him, and nothing more. 1621519;1488562622;trinque;fine opportunity to use his as an example. low value guy, non-essential. public flogging. 1621520;1488562711;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621475 <<-->> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-08#1320298 "she". what fucking she. the notion that ~people~ use airbnb is exactly like the notion that "groupon was a consumer revolution". 1621521;1488562711;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 17:02 phf: and host listed just a handful of dollars below budget hotel option for the area, so clearly knew what she was doing 1621522;1488562711;a111;Logged on 2015-11-08 23:08 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes match.com, plenty of fish, okcupid tinder and the rest of the lesser known implementations of the social media dating scam are all owned by iac. 1621523;1488562718;mircea_popescu;dude... if the thing existed... WHERE DID IT GO ?!?!?! 1621524;1488562736;mircea_popescu;somehow this question never gets asked, "facebook spent 50bn to buy... users." ok... if they bought them where are they ? 1621525;1488562743;mircea_popescu;100% dead souls bidnis. 1621526;1488562773;mircea_popescu;trinque that was ~my read also 1621527;1488562833;trinque;aha. the guy's own face read expendable 1621528;1488562876;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621476 << i'm mindblown at the notion that you actually approach women. 1621529;1488562876;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 17:05 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621464 << lel, this happens to asciilifeform/pet regularly. i think of it as 'yes there are fast neutrons wherever you are, but go and extract useful energy from'em' 1621530;1488562901;BingoBoingo;Everyone needs a hobby 1621531;1488563112;asciilifeform;in other veryolds, 'It is now common knowledge among computer scientists that NP-completeness is largely irrelevant to public-key cryptography...' -- ( (very sadly) Papadimitriou . 'NP-completeness: A Retrospective', 1995. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.32.8685&rep=rep1&type=pdf ) 1621532;1488563124;asciilifeform;btw my year's search finally scored a hit: http://www.cs.uml.edu/~wang/acc-forum 1621533;1488563128;asciilifeform;in particular, the 2nd link. 1621534;1488563144;mircea_popescu;the way alf dating scene worked, at least in my imagination, was girl now and again propositions 'im then has to spend the next three hours arguing with him because "it'll never work". 1621535;1488563169;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform o hey, i think that guy's actually romanian. 1621536;1488563237;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: papadimitriou ? i assumed -- a greek. at any rate, he wrote asciilifeform's (and probably ~everybody's) undergrad schoolb00k on complexity 1621537;1488563270;mircea_popescu;a yes, right you are, greek. 1621538;1488563347;mircea_popescu;lol tulpas. 1621539;1488563427;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo "the lamestream a fake news media appeared to be" l "a pool of 13,000 evaluation." 1621540;1488563497;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621490 << coming from india, no less! 1621541;1488563497;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 17:19 phf: catching up with rss and some of the log linked articles is literally like taking a bath of shit. 1621542;1488563641;asciilifeform;'An up-to-date list of research and survey articles in average complexity.' '(Date Last Modified: 12/30/03)' lel 1621543;1488563689;asciilifeform;it melts my brain, that this is apparently a backwater subfield, whereas it really ought to be ~100% of cryptology 1621544;1488563701;asciilifeform;took me ~year to even unearth that it ever existed. 1621545;1488563710;asciilifeform;(google is 'helpful' as always) 1621546;1488564177;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i read 'approach' phf's observation literally, as in 'walk up to' 1621547;1488564275;mircea_popescu;ah 1621548;1488564291;mircea_popescu;i read it lingually, as in http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/take-it-all-560x874.jpg 1621549;1488564378;asciilifeform;btw when i first saw ^ photo i parsed it as a wtf, because of the peculiar position of the ballsack, it looked as if it could be a hyena-like concave proboscis, holding a dildo 1621550;1488564491;mircea_popescu;yep. great pic, for that reason 1621551;1488564501;asciilifeform;'who/whom ?' 1621552;1488564644;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: ty fxd 1621553;1488566188;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/another-guest-lecturer-attacked-on-us-campus/ << Qntra - Another Guest Lecturer Attacked On US Campus 1621554;1488566262;mircea_popescu;151288920022 Mar 3 18:37 debug.log 1621555;1488566316;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, i found a trb node which is locked on block 419373 and dumps all blocks as unacceptable bastards 1621556;1488566339;mircea_popescu;resulting in a 150gb debug.log 1621557;1488566866;BingoBoingo;Fat pig of a log 1621558;1488567373;BingoBoingo;!!up grubles 1621559;1488567374;deedbot;grubles voiced for 30 minutes. 1621560;1488567732;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was it built with spitblock ? can you get it to spit out , say, 419300 ... 419373 ? 1621561;1488567751;mircea_popescu;was not, it's an older trb. 1621562;1488567776;asciilifeform;uhoh 1621563;1488567782;asciilifeform;see, http://btcbase.org/patches , where 'dumpblock' is 1621564;1488567786;asciilifeform;what ELSE doesn't it have ?? 1621565;1488567813;asciilifeform;does it still, for instance, have orphanages ?! because that ain't really modern trb, in any real sense 1621566;1488567820;asciilifeform;that'd be just 0.5.3prb... 1621567;1488567868;asciilifeform;at any rate plz don't lose that thing's blockchain, mircea_popescu , can use my 'blkcut' or ben_vulpes's ver of same, to get at the blox 1621568;1488567879;asciilifeform;would be quite interesting to learn what it thinks 419373 was. 1621569;1488567885;mircea_popescu;do you want the last block.dat or such ? 1621570;1488567895;asciilifeform;would work. 1621571;1488567898;mircea_popescu;aite a sec. 1621572;1488568183;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://qntra.net/blk0036.dat 1621573;1488568192;asciilifeform;sha512? 1621574;1488568225;mircea_popescu;2a8a1884fa895d6fbc044d64af047fda1ad90728333f5646339b96bc9c1e5ef1f1f4bbd16eff527b90acfae19478727d8504c1f32930cb2cab64e29cfecec2e9 1621575;1488568237;asciilifeform;ty 1621576;1488568281;asciilifeform;in other wtf, http://www.cat-tube.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/3627088.jpeg 1621577;1488568340;asciilifeform;^ i suspect this beast, if not a piltdown man, was made using the method described by lomachinsky , with the old radioprotective drug that causes gigantism in mammal 1621578;1488568451;BingoBoingo;Big Kitty! 1621579;1488568831;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/fake-news-figure-arrested-for-string-of-anti-semetic-threats/ << Qntra - Fake News Figure Arrested For String Of Anti Semetic Threats 1621580;1488568852;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://qntra.net/dlog.txt << last 1k lines of log. 1621581;1488568921;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i found ~a~ wtf ... 1621582;1488568937;mircea_popescu;anyway, at the time i turned it off it was widely connected, and spamming the debug log 10lines/sec sort of rate 1621583;1488568942;mircea_popescu;but basically it chokes on A WHOLE SET of txn 1621584;1488569001;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: (you may be aware of this but just in case - given tmsr's preference for keccak, fyi your sha512 above uses sha-2, not sha-3) 1621585;1488569027;mircea_popescu;Framedragger yeah ; just using linux standard item, we've not specifically migrated as of yet 1621586;1488569036;Framedragger;right right :) 1621587;1488569052;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wtf/zoolag_blk0036.txt ; 1621588;1488569088;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wtf/mp_blk0036.txt 1621589;1488569150;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform we're mismatched, my 0 is offest 125 in yours 1621590;1488569162;asciilifeform;this i know 1621591;1488569164;mircea_popescu;this happens because of orphans ; we discussed it re flat chains yest etc 1621592;1488569167;asciilifeform;aha 1621593;1488569168;mircea_popescu;ah 1621594;1488569181;asciilifeform;now watch: 1621595;1488569199;asciilifeform;cut -d' ' -f1 mp_blk0036.txt | sort | uniq > mp_u.txt 1621596;1488569205;asciilifeform;(unique hashes of mp's) 1621597;1488569233;mircea_popescu;well your blk0036 would be full, mine's about 90% full 1621598;1488569235;asciilifeform;cut -d' ' -f1 zoolag_blk0036.txt | sort | uniq > zoolag_u.txt 1621599;1488569238;mircea_popescu;it being the last blk 1621600;1488569240;asciilifeform;and yes mine's full 1621601;1488569253;asciilifeform;but your-last isn't, it seems, mine-any. 1621602;1488569276;mircea_popescu;so node got stuck on orphan. 1621603;1488569281;mircea_popescu;and you never heard that orphan. 1621604;1488569283;asciilifeform;not just one. 1621605;1488569291;asciilifeform;you're at least 10 deep, looks like ? 1621606;1488569317;mircea_popescu;and inasmuch as node wasn't capable of extracting itself naturally, and it IS a trb node, this qualifies as successful attack against network, by and large. 1621607;1488569411;asciilifeform;ruled out connectivity as culprit ? 1621608;1488569427;asciilifeform;(if it wedges and never speaks to honest node again, it'll stay wedged, noshit.jpg) 1621609;1488569727;asciilifeform; diff zoolag_u.txt mp_u.txt | grep '^>' | sed 's/^>\ //' > mp_but_not_zoolag.txt 1621610;1488569755;asciilifeform;and, unsurprisingly, 1621611;1488569761;asciilifeform;diff mp_u.txt zoolag_u.txt | grep '^>' | sed 's/^>\ //' > zoolag_but_not_mp.txt 1621612;1488569920;mircea_popescu;node was well connected throughout. 1621613;1488569946;mircea_popescu;if you want to trace specific peers i can grep the monster debug i guess 1621614;1488570029;asciilifeform;1sec, let's finish the earlier escapade : 1621615;1488570073;asciilifeform;grep -wFf mp_but_not_zoolag.txt mp_blk0036.txt > what_mp_had_and_dulap_didnt.txt 1621616;1488570132;asciilifeform;now for the money shot: 1621617;1488570156;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wtf/what_mp_had_and_dulap_didnt.txt 1621618;1488570174;asciilifeform;2430..2431 we'll ignore, that looks like an orphanlet 1621619;1488570196;mircea_popescu;84 long ? 1621620;1488570196;asciilifeform;but now 2502 .. 2584 ! 1621621;1488570198;asciilifeform;aha! 1621622;1488570204;mircea_popescu;say, did you look in your blk37 also ? 1621623;1488570210;mircea_popescu;it ~could~ end up in there. 1621624;1488570221;asciilifeform;1s 1621625;1488570236;mircea_popescu;(note that one of these is about 2.5k blocks long, like 2 weeks ish) 1621626;1488570342;asciilifeform;aaaalmost done.. 1621627;1488570704;asciilifeform;ooook this is interesting 1621628;1488570725;asciilifeform;my 37 contains contains all 84. 1621629;1488570730;asciilifeform;*contains all 84 1621630;1488570768;asciilifeform;so looks like zoolag (and dulap, and everybody) reorged, but mircea_popescu's node didn't 1621631;1488570778;asciilifeform;i am left with 0 clue re why. 1621632;1488570847;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wtf/zoolag_blk0037.txt << uploaded for completeness/replicability. 1621633;1488570886;asciilifeform;other folx invited to submit their own... 1621634;1488571017;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the log from mircea_popescu's node unsurprisingly sheds 0 light. 1621635;1488571067;asciilifeform;what_mp_had_and_dulap_didnt.txt << GRRRR ought to read 'zulag didn't' 1621636;1488571107;asciilifeform;i have RENAMED THE FILE !11 1621637;1488571127;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wtf/what_mp_had_and_zoolag_didnt.txt << new link, for posterity. 1621638;1488571160;*;asciilifeform bbl. 1621639;1488575117;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/iqUhn << in other noose. << i dun think i've ever seen such compact one. and certainly not for sale 'to humans'. 1621640;1488575128;asciilifeform;^ BingoBoingo and other t00lz collectors. 1621641;1488577692;asciilifeform;oh and, unrelated, BingoBoingo : http://qntra.net/2017/03/fake-news-figure-arrested-for-string-of-anti-semetic-threats/#comment-88670 1621642;1488577889;Framedragger;BingoBoingo: s/semetic/semitic/g :p 1621643;1488577905;Framedragger;(unless 'twas intended) 1621644;1488578984;jurov;heh with BingoBoingo one never knows :) 1621645;1488579085;jurov;and btw mircea_popescu have you pushed qntra stuff? 1621646;1488579949;jurov;https://people.redhat.com/duffy/selinux/selinux-coloring-book_A4-Stapled.pdf << what do redhat devs do 1621647;1488580026;asciilifeform;holyfuq nightmare fuel 1621648;1488580268;ben_vulpes;i have no idea what goes on in these certificate program scams but i can't imagine not leaving if someone actually put a coloring book in front of me 1621649;1488580984;mircea_popescu;jurov haven't published qntra report yet, no. 1621650;1488581217;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170303/#268 << i have nfi either, but it ~looks~ like it did not believe A NUMBER OF txn from the root of the reorg are validable. 1621651;1488581219;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-03: [19:52:58] i am left with 0 clue re why. 1621652;1488581275;pete_dushenski;spooky 1621653;1488581285;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: what leads you to this hypothesis ? 1621654;1488581329;mircea_popescu;that the log essentially consists of complaints that txn can't be validated and so the block can't be added. 1621655;1488581346;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: everybody's log consists of multiple GB of 'tx cannot be validated.' 1621656;1488581362;asciilifeform;these eggogs refer to mempool tx 1621657;1488581365;mircea_popescu;not 150gb theree3of. 1621658;1488581376;asciilifeform;i have a 80+GB log of mainly that. 1621659;1488581382;asciilifeform;and before it, a 100+, etc. 1621660;1488581408;mircea_popescu;well, looks. what can i say. 1621661;1488581429;asciilifeform;there is a much simpler, though disheartening, explanation 1621662;1488581431;mircea_popescu;i've looked at the block specifically, i can't figure out why it would say such a thing myself. 1621663;1488581463;asciilifeform;trb's block push/pull mechanism is so retarded, that it is possible for a node to go for eons in a wedge, simply from never receiving the necessary unwedge blocks. 1621664;1488581504;mircea_popescu;40k blocks ? i dun see it. 1621665;1488581553;asciilifeform;well it keeps asking for 419374, and getting 'wrong' one. 1621666;1488581559;asciilifeform;the real puzzler is why not reorgs. 1621667;1488581684;asciilifeform;here's a q: what happens if two forklets are tied in PoW ? 1621668;1488581721;mircea_popescu;pow is a "double" 1621669;1488581763;asciilifeform;hey i did not say that this situation is likely to happen by chance. 1621670;1488581773;asciilifeform;q was, 'what happens'. 1621671;1488581804;asciilifeform;because, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1212 >> as i currently understand it, in this case, reorg does not fire. 1621672;1488581908;asciilifeform;upstack: the sad thing is, i am not even equipped to answer whether 419373 was part of an orphanable forklet on mircea_popescu's node ; and if so, when orphaned at large 1621673;1488581909;mircea_popescu;afaik reorg fires by block length. eventually -- would. 1621674;1488581935;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's a major part of the problem, everything can appear as orphans to a portion of the network only. 1621675;1488581988;asciilifeform;what i meant is, i specifically do not have the most basic means of answering the most basic questions about the blocks, other than their bitwise identities as pictured earlier 1621676;1488581996;asciilifeform;and this is serious headache 1621677;1488582026;asciilifeform;didn't ben_vulpes ( or trinque ? ) write a block debugger ? 1621678;1488582043;asciilifeform;gotta at least be able to draw the motherfucking tree 1621679;1488582123;asciilifeform;incidentally trb probably ought to shit a sha512 of incoming block into the debug log 1621680;1488582134;asciilifeform;then we would, for instance, know , what mircea_popescu's node heard, and when 1621681;1488582144;asciilifeform;right now we only have satoshi's header idiocy 1621682;1488582166;pete_dushenski;http://cascadianhacker.com/21_a-tour-of-bitcoind-booting-to-its-first-thread << this ? pngs are broken tho 1621683;1488582183;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: this in re which ? 1621684;1488582195;pete_dushenski;debugger 1621685;1488582212;ben_vulpes;baww fuq 1621686;1488582214;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: i don't see a block debugger in there 1621687;1488582242;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: block debugger would be like my 'blkcut', except for ~block~, as output by blkcut, would display header, transactions, etc. 1621688;1488582259;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: that piece was stuffed full of 'gdb', 'gnu debugger' screenshots 1621689;1488582273;asciilifeform;entirely not connected with this thread, pete_dushenski 1621690;1488582295;asciilifeform;( i naively supposed that meaning of 'block debugger' is obvious to reader ) 1621691;1488582308;ben_vulpes;such naivte 1621692;1488582330;pete_dushenski;apparently i dun get it 1621693;1488582341;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: consider reading today's log 1621694;1488582387;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu showed up with a bag of clues from a trb node that wedged some weeks ago. so now autopsy. 1621695;1488582423;pete_dushenski;oh i got that, just not sure which block debugger you thought you remembered seeing and wherefrom 1621696;1488582442;*;pete_dushenski back to diggin on ch 1621697;1488582466;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: somebody, iirc it was ben_vulpes , wrote a thing that actually parses blox 1621698;1488582487;pete_dushenski;that rings a bell ya 1621699;1488582515;asciilifeform;y'know, which then turned into mimisbrunnr 1621700;1488582537;pete_dushenski;http://cascadianhacker.com/extracting-and-hashing-bitcoin-block-headers ? 1621701;1488582591;asciilifeform;possibly it, but plus a bunch of moving parts which may or may not have been yet published? 1621702;1488582599;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes ^ ? 1621703;1488582662;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: grep your log for reorg. when was last reorg ? 1621704;1488582663;pete_dushenski;in other measurement strange, https://www.cnet.com/news/icon-smart-condom-ring/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0b&linkId=35064659 1621705;1488582669;ben_vulpes;yes yes? 1621706;1488582682;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: didja ever publish your block parser ? 1621707;1488582694;ben_vulpes;not in toto, no 1621708;1488582700;asciilifeform;i could really use one... 1621709;1488582720;ben_vulpes;it doesn't do too much, depends on blocks having been dumped via dumpblock. 1621710;1488582728;asciilifeform;(well rather, mircea_popescu could really use one. but he probably doesn't have the runtime readily set up) 1621711;1488582738;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: we have just such blocks 1621712;1488582738;ben_vulpes;i'd be happy to send you any relevant bits, let me package up what i have for you 1621713;1488582744;asciilifeform;actually 1621714;1488582750;asciilifeform;why not ben_vulpes blkcut mircea_popescu's 0036 1621715;1488582761;asciilifeform;sadly asciilifeform is tied up doing a chore atm 1621716;1488582785;mircea_popescu;dude why can't he do whatever it is he's doing lol ; i did publish the thing. 1621717;1488582791;ben_vulpes;aye, let me find the log line 1621718;1488582835;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621572 1621719;1488582835;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 19:09 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://qntra.net/blk0036.dat 1621720;1488582854;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: lol it isn't as if i had 'go and do it or voodoo curse!1!' 1621721;1488582892;ben_vulpes;tape has since self-destructed? 1621722;1488582914;asciilifeform;waiwat 1621723;1488582915;ben_vulpes;0036.dat also implies a trb .dat file, not a dumpblocked file? happy to crack it open and see though 1621724;1488582921;ben_vulpes;> page not found 1621725;1488582926;mircea_popescu;gah. 1621726;1488582948;mircea_popescu;yeah seems it got eaten meanwhile. a sec ima re-move it. 1621727;1488582954;mircea_popescu;gotta stay on top of logs!111 1621728;1488582955;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it blkcut's great. and you should get http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wtf/mp_blk0036.txt checksums. 1621729;1488582970;ben_vulpes;aye aye 1621730;1488583105;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes now. 1621731;1488583209;ben_vulpes;same url? 1621732;1488583213;mircea_popescu;ye 1621733;1488583219;ben_vulpes;hm 1621734;1488583250;ben_vulpes;> 404 1621735;1488583294;mircea_popescu;eh da fuck 1621736;1488583372;*;ben_vulpes wouldn't know 1621737;1488583400;mircea_popescu;wrong permissions ; try now. 1621738;1488583472;ben_vulpes;aya, give me a few 1621739;1488583557;mircea_popescu;jurov nao done. 1621740;1488584162;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: ty, fixed 1621741;1488584306;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what means "draw the motherfucking tree"? 1621742;1488584332;mircea_popescu;the optmistic notion that the unknown may be better drawn than said. 1621743;1488584336;mircea_popescu;he's a painter at heart. 1621744;1488584367;asciilifeform;just means to dump the which-block-depends-on-which-blocks tree 1621745;1488584379;mircea_popescu;it implies that oyu know all blocks. 1621746;1488584388;asciilifeform;for given set 1621747;1488584396;mircea_popescu;all blocks. 1621748;1488584419;asciilifeform;tardoshi stored them in linear tape for some reason, with 0 markings 1621749;1488584420;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: nice. 1621750;1488584466;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: a block doesn't get to sit down in blk**** in trb unless its antecedents are present. 1621751;1488584470;asciilifeform;so gaps are not a thing. 1621752;1488584470;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/qntra-sqntr-february-2017-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) February 2017 Statement 1621753;1488584494;mircea_popescu;yes, but different blk sets, different seats etc. 1621754;1488584605;pete_dushenski;!~bcstats 1621755;1488584607;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: Current Blocks: 455648 | Current Difficulty: 4.6076935809E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 457631 | Next Difficulty In: 1983 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 21 hours, 49 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None 1621756;1488584625;asciilifeform;well yes. hence why i said 'draw tree', i.e. list the blocks in form, e.g., b1->b2->{b2a1, b2b1->b2b2->b2b3} << in this example, b2a1 is orphanlet 1621757;1488584629;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: 0036.dat downloaded 1621758;1488584650;asciilifeform;(does not need to be, obviously, literally in this form, but the same effect) 1621759;1488584653;mircea_popescu;ah like that. well we pretty much have that here, it'd seem, neh ? 1621760;1488584678;asciilifeform;if ben_vulpes's parser worx -- then yes 1621761;1488584686;asciilifeform;we probably can haz. 1621762;1488584893;ben_vulpes;it'll procure previous hash from a given block, could be taped into making a list of blocks 1621763;1488585233;ben_vulpes;block of interest is last in blk0036.dat? 1621764;1488585265;mircea_popescu; 419373 and thereabous 1621765;1488585315;ben_vulpes;is there a straightforward mapping of height to position in blk.dat i missed? 1621766;1488585364;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: no, think about it, blockchain is a tree, but the turdfile is a linear tape 1621767;1488585370;mircea_popescu;prolly best search by hash 1621768;1488585374;asciilifeform;it stores live and orphaned chains alike 1621769;1488585378;asciilifeform;in the order they were seen 1621770;1488585379;ben_vulpes;linear barring orphans 1621771;1488585382;ben_vulpes;ah yes, that 1621772;1488585387;ben_vulpes;in order of receipt 1621773;1488585832;ben_vulpes;with the caveat that there is something funky with satoshi counts in this parser that i have yet to properly nail: http://cascadianhacker.com/2584.txt 1621774;1488585838;ben_vulpes;in *my parser 1621775;1488585859;mircea_popescu;well those nailings being the principal point of this exercise. 1621776;1488585876;mircea_popescu;it'd be tremendously helpful for instance if the trb node had found it within its good graces TO FUCKING PUT TIMESTAMPS IN THE LOG. 1621777;1488585893;ben_vulpes;oh and this doesn't actually render the header in a digestible form. okay, disregard. 1621778;1488585957;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: can you find this block in mimisbrunnr ? 1621779;1488586194;ben_vulpes;doubtful that i would find it in the web interface, but possible in the blocks. 1621780;1488586202;asciilifeform;aalso mircea_popescu looks like your node wedged in ... july ?! 2016 1621781;1488586233;asciilifeform;it sat there wedged ever since ?! 1621782;1488586235;mircea_popescu;well, 40k blocks yes ? 1621783;1488586238;mircea_popescu;so it did. 1621784;1488586269;asciilifeform;fwiw the heathens seem to have this same 419373 , https://blockchain.info/block-index/1242663 1621785;1488586284;mircea_popescu;indeed. 1621786;1488586310;mircea_popescu;it's not exactly a common condition, this ; which is both why i said something and why it wasn't noticed. simply no test for ~this~ never seen before nonsense 1621787;1488586317;mircea_popescu;ie the node appeared fine. 1621788;1488586326;asciilifeform;so apparently not a reorg problem 1621789;1488586327;asciilifeform;at all 1621790;1488586333;mircea_popescu;why not ? 1621791;1488586358;asciilifeform;because the last block in mircea_popescu's blk0036 is a main-chain block 1621792;1488586368;asciilifeform;it was never orphaned, and never had to get reorged out 1621793;1488586372;mircea_popescu;ah in that sense. yes. 1621794;1488586402;mircea_popescu;anyway, i plan to restart it sometime tomorrow, if anyone wants further datas it's a fine time to say. 1621795;1488586409;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: anything peculiar re that box, say, disk full ? 1621796;1488586413;asciilifeform;dying raid ? 1621797;1488586413;mircea_popescu;nope. 1621798;1488586421;mircea_popescu;machine is fine. 1621799;1488586426;ben_vulpes;previous block hash claims to be 0000000000000000036D2AFA6270C3A58C9A2093C706F0EACA4018E54BF2879C 1621800;1488586433;asciilifeform;ever reset dirtily ? corrupt tx index ? 1621801;1488586435;mircea_popescu;(all those and many others would have popped it for review you realise) 1621802;1488586453;mircea_popescu;nope. it's been working continuously and undisturbed for as long again at least. 1621803;1488586517;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 1 more thing 1621804;1488586545;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: can you get the log inclusive of the last ACCEPT (case-sensitive) and all lines after ? 1621805;1488586551;asciilifeform;and post (gzip, probably) 1621806;1488586634;asciilifeform;or, say, 100,000 ln. of it, ought to suffice. 1621807;1488586786;mircea_popescu;i guess i'm just going to publish the log altogehter ? 1621808;1488586813;asciilifeform;wouldn't hurt. 1621809;1488586824;mircea_popescu;let's do that then 1621810;1488586976;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if not mega-seekrit, did this node peer with well-known trb nodes (e.g., mine ) ? 1621811;1488586996;mircea_popescu;not really ; unless yours randomly came to it. 1621812;1488587024;asciilifeform;because this could be a 'pulling' problem , a 'pushing' one, or even both at once 1621813;1488587046;asciilifeform;or neither -- a prb-everywhere-and-not-a-drop-to-drink problem , conceivably. 1621814;1488587056;mircea_popescu;yes well. 1621815;1488587135;asciilifeform;( i lean to the latter hypothesis , it is a thing that regularly happened - admittedly not to the extent seen in mircea_popescu's specimen -- among my nodes, and was why i could no longer put off the 'wires' thing ) 1621816;1488587173;mircea_popescu;9 months ? 1621817;1488587198;asciilifeform;i don't keep any boxes on mars, that i can only check every 9 mo 1621818;1488587201;mircea_popescu;"if they can do it to this guy they can do it to most any guy" is the idea here. 1621819;1488587206;asciilifeform;but if i did - it could, yes 1621820;1488587231;mircea_popescu;yes well. 1621821;1488587391;asciilifeform;sooo somewhere in mircea_popescu's log, there'll be a getinv for 0000000000000000036, the prev block, then for this final one, 0000000000000000038 (complain to tardoshi re the procrusted hashes, not to me..) , 1621822;1488587434;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, i'll complain to you, because really there's no need trb logging be THIS RETARDED 1621823;1488587440;mircea_popescu;ill complain to mod6 also. 1621824;1488587440;asciilifeform;but, then , there ought to be a 0000000000000000013 getenv 1621825;1488587444;mircea_popescu;this seems an easy enough to fix item. 1621826;1488587445;asciilifeform;lolfair 1621827;1488587449;ben_vulpes;slow to the show, but http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/419373 1621828;1488587457;asciilifeform;*getinv 1621829;1488587584;asciilifeform;00000000000000000136 rather 1621830;1488587654;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes aha! 1621831;1488587701;mircea_popescu;loads of all that "unable to decode address" things, which is my only vague "there could be something here". 1621832;1488587701;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: grep -A 10000 "received block 00000000000000000136" mp_log.txt plox ? 1621833;1488587715;mircea_popescu;ie, you ~could~, theoretically, write such shit into a block that it wedges nodes. 1621834;1488587728;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform im just zipping it and will put it up hang on 1621835;1488587768;mircea_popescu;91.8 0.0 11:57.45 gzip << fancy this wonder. 1621836;1488587879;shinohai;Whatever the outcome of the node wedge fix is, I need to write all this down as it may be a powerful tool to fuck with enemy in the future. 1621837;1488587892;mircea_popescu;shinohai but it's in teh logz!! 1621838;1488587958;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you might recall that trb does not attempt to decode tx scripts (yes) when verifying block 1621839;1488587978;asciilifeform;(this was a major brain-melter during the prbisms thread) 1621840;1488587992;mircea_popescu;no argument there ; you however may in turn recall that trb is by inheritance an utterly chtonian horror of heap allocation etc. 1621841;1488587995;asciilifeform;the behaviour is inherited from tardoshi 1621842;1488588134;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you have not yet switched the box off -- what does getinfo return ? 1621843;1488588163;asciilifeform;( if at any point an exception was shat , it'll be cached there ) 1621844;1488588163;mircea_popescu;i did turn off the node to be able to push out meaningful bdb item think about it. 1621845;1488588169;asciilifeform;aite. 1621846;1488588176;mircea_popescu;but before that it returned the plainest normalcy, 37 connected nodes etc. 1621847;1488588184;mircea_popescu;no exception. 1621848;1488588207;mircea_popescu;ie empty error string. 1621849;1488588223;asciilifeform;ok; 1621850;1488588263;asciilifeform;remains -- to see the log (was it ever offered 00000000000000000136 in an inv vector ? and, did it ever request it from anybody ; and lastly, did it ever receive . ) 1621851;1488588265;mircea_popescu;all of these'd have also made me notice it. 1621852;1488588288;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform part of the problem is that "00000000000000000136" is not much of a unique id in thefirst place. 1621853;1488588297;mircea_popescu;how much would you trust eleven bits ? 1621854;1488588307;asciilifeform;it sure as fuck isn't . which is why it has to be massaged out from the log segment known to contain it. 1621855;1488588312;asciilifeform;because yes, shit log. 1621856;1488588338;asciilifeform;really all of the procrustean truncations gotta go. 1621857;1488588758;asciilifeform;btw, for review, 1621858;1488588777;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1364 and http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1735 are the only times a trb node asks for blocks explicitly from peer 1621859;1488588796;asciilifeform;at all other times, it passively sits with open mouth, waiting for blox to fall from the heavens 1621860;1488588808;asciilifeform;(and grunting through the mempool) 1621861;1488588818;mircea_popescu;yeah. and since you mention it, trb-i definitely needs a clarified push-or-pull model because the current system is the soul of unconsidered adhocery 1621862;1488588836;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> ill complain to mod6 also. << im about 18 hours behind on the log, will catch up and will revisit tomorrow. 1621863;1488588850;mircea_popescu;don't worry, it's not an emergency, just general point mod6 1621864;1488588872;mod6;ok, np.. thanks for pointing it out. :] 1621865;1488588922;asciilifeform;so mircea_popescu , as you can probably tell, if node misses the window when $block was being actively thrown at it, then it has only these two knobs for attempting to get it 1621866;1488588950;asciilifeform;one is to ask bringers of orphan blocks for our currentheight+1. 1621867;1488588987;asciilifeform;the other is the idiocy where it asks, but only ~the first node it talked to when booting~ ! 1621868;1488588997;mircea_popescu;yes ; and that one should have activated EVERY TIME. 1621869;1488589009;asciilifeform;astonishing that this crud ever worked at all ! 1621870;1488589018;mircea_popescu;of course... wait wait. 1621871;1488589031;mircea_popescu;did the orphanage burner ruin trb 's chances of unwedging in this situation ? 1621872;1488589032;asciilifeform;aaaaaha. not a typo. 1621873;1488589060;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not necessarily, orphanage may or may not have unwedged it, as it discards old orphans when new appear. 1621874;1488589082;mircea_popescu;but in principle whenever given an orphan, old satoshi node would have asked for its height +1 1621875;1488589086;mircea_popescu;is this no longer happening in trb ? 1621876;1488589104;asciilifeform;it still happens, see the quoted src 1621877;1488589131;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1358 << current mechanism. 1621878;1488589131;mircea_popescu;yeah. then i can't conceive. it did complain thousands of times of orphans, which implicitly resulted in block being sought. 1621879;1488589142;asciilifeform;and every time, it was refused. 1621880;1488589144;asciilifeform;likely, by a prb. 1621881;1488589155;mircea_popescu;what's this refusal supposed to be ? 1621882;1488589173;asciilifeform;trb's response to an orphan is 'tell me mybestheight+1th block DAMNIT' 1621883;1488589178;mircea_popescu;yes 1621884;1488589186;asciilifeform;let's see if anyone answered . gotta see the log. 1621885;1488589211;mircea_popescu;aite, ima go examine beauty in the flesh. will push the thing to web when it's done. 1621886;1488589223;asciilifeform;laters then 1621887;1488589486;asciilifeform;btw mircea_popescu et al , is it obvious how http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1364 works ? or do i need to explain 1621888;1488589528;asciilifeform;(it's effectively recursive. when bastard comes in, we ask for its predecessor. which, if it is also a bastard to us, triggers same process. ad infinitum, until we get the thing we actually want, which is our next block ) 1621889;1488589562;asciilifeform;it is also why i did not give bastardry a ban score ! 1621890;1488589641;asciilifeform;this routine is inherited from tardoshi btw, i did not invent it. 1621891;1488589768;asciilifeform;btw i am now nearly certain re what happened to mircea_popescu's box 1621892;1488589803;asciilifeform;dollars to doughnuts, it lost connectivity for a week or two. at which point the necessary bastardry-recursion depth became longer than any of his node's peer's typical uptime. 1621893;1488589822;asciilifeform; ( and with each new block mined, this depth is 1 deeper ! ) 1621894;1488589869;asciilifeform;note that ProcessBlock() only ever asks ~the bastard-supplying peer~ for the bastard's prevblock. 1621895;1488589878;asciilifeform;it never asks anybody else ! 1621896;1488589881;trinque;how is being behind distinguished from a new node coming up? 1621897;1488589923;asciilifeform;trinque: like this, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1735 1621898;1488589935;asciilifeform;tardoshi had a motherfucking SPECIAL CASE for 'i'm a new node' 1621899;1488589956;trinque;ahaha 1621900;1488589956;asciilifeform;and, notice, it asks first-chance-strangerfuck for the blocks-from-genesis. 1621901;1488589957;trinque;of course it does 1621902;1488590055;asciilifeform;this is also why mircea_popescu rebooting the node, will almost guarantee to bring it to life 1621903;1488590063;asciilifeform;: the idiot specialcase -- will trigger. 1621904;1488590090;asciilifeform;(whether succeeds will depend 100% on who the thing ends up connecting to on boot ) 1621905;1488590128;asciilifeform;tardoshi's block fetching mechanism is profoundly, inexperessibly retarded, and cannot be substantially changed without breaking protocol 1621906;1488590221;asciilifeform;though mircea_popescu's wedge is preventable, what trb really ought to do is start sending http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1735 to all peers, starting with any 'wires' if present, whenever it goes for >1hr without a new block 1621907;1488590567;asciilifeform;i'll add that 'week' is merely a guess, from my arse; perhaps a couple of hours is enough, under the right circumstances ( idiot peers + sufficiently many blocks made in interval ) 1621908;1488590659;asciilifeform;at this point i will recommend that -- when everyone has satisfied himself that 'wires' work -- every trb node oughta be wired to at least 1 known trb node 1621909;1488590676;asciilifeform;and yeah this ought not to be necessary. but i suspect that it -- is. 1621910;1488590685;asciilifeform;the network has rotten to the point, where it probably is. 1621911;1488591293;asciilifeform;and i'll repeat, tardoshi offered NO way to request blocks BY HEIGHT !! 1621912;1488591295;asciilifeform;none! 1621913;1488591358;asciilifeform;to request a block from a peer, you have to somehow find out its header hash 1621914;1488591480;asciilifeform;which you are expected to do (because he was dropped as a child) using either a bastard's header, recursively as discussed earlier, or 'getheaders' 1621915;1488591500;asciilifeform;clinch is : getheaders ALSO WANTS A HASH as starting point ! ALSO won't work by height !! 1621916;1488591534;asciilifeform;whipping to death, and throwing to dogs, is all things considered a merciful reward for someone who designs a system like this. 1621917;1488591622;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://qntra.net/debug.wow.txt.gz 1621918;1488591626;mircea_popescu;hash presently. 1621919;1488591727;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: meanwhile i solved it with anal telekinesis !!111 1621920;1488591766;mircea_popescu;i didn't know males could do that. 1621921;1488591858;mircea_popescu;2b24b2fcfb4ff6cdf7fa845d613d340baec866f285f9a24fb5bd2c8ffd740802ebfd51999af92c68ec117e45a115f85ac0c95bae612a99b7a2f095e66d5f6b02 1621922;1488592003;asciilifeform;(82.7 MB/s) - “debug.wow.txt.gz” saved << aaah 1621923;1488592022;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no it's clear how it should work ; whether it ends up working that way is open, but hey. 1621924;1488592037;asciilifeform;lessee if mircea_popescu's l0g is consistent with above 1621925;1488592061;mircea_popescu;box lost connectivity for A WEEK ? my dear alf. 1621926;1488592068;asciilifeform;readwholethingplox 1621927;1488592087;asciilifeform;checksum pass btw. 1621928;1488592144;mircea_popescu;i do not believe node lost connectivity for as long as five total minutes, let alone straight minutes ; this however is a very iffy point to prove because hey, ~connectivity~. 1621929;1488592156;asciilifeform;'lost connectivity' can mean blackhole, for this purpose. 1621930;1488592166;mircea_popescu;very technically ; i don't think it too likely. 1621931;1488592317;*;asciilifeform waits for gunzip 1621932;1488592335;mircea_popescu;anyway, the problem with "request block by height" is that the block height is an ambiguous identifier of actual blocks. 1621933;1488592341;mircea_popescu;this is hwat a reorg does. 1621934;1488592343;asciilifeform;this is entirely tru 1621935;1488592354;asciilifeform;i did not say that it ought to request by height at all times. 1621936;1488592356;mircea_popescu;now, asking for "friend's notion of five a clock" is not entirely without merit 1621937;1488592359;asciilifeform;but ought to be able to ~sometimes~ 1621938;1488592361;mircea_popescu;but yes. 1621939;1488592386;asciilifeform;(if you ~only~ requested by height, anyone could put you on 1way voyage to pluto and you'll stay there.) 1621940;1488592957;mircea_popescu;now then ; the reason i even looked at this node is that i was going through a list of potential candidates to put in the new asciilifeform ssh thing. 1621941;1488592967;mircea_popescu;if you're around tomorrow mebbe we do that ? 1621942;1488592982;mircea_popescu;and otherwise, i bid all a very good thight 1621943;1488592984;mircea_popescu;i mean night. 1621944;1488593001;asciilifeform;i'll be around for most of tomorrow yea 1621945;1488593022;asciilifeform;also the recipe is pretty simple. gpg over the pubkey and you're golden. 1621946;1488597745;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621563 << i believe it's because it's called asciilifeform_and_now_we_have_block_dumper_corrected. (http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable&search=dump) 1621947;1488597745;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 19:03 asciilifeform: see, http://btcbase.org/patches , where 'dumpblock' is 1621948;1488597813;asciilifeform;phf: he uploaded entire blk0036 in the end, see l0gz 1621949;1488598102;phf;i'm mostly reacting to "things missing" bit. i otherwise would like to remain ignorant of going ons in the world, until i'm forced into interracting with it again in a few days 1621950;1488598111;phf;http://68.media.tumblr.com/01a7c7c27d6ad3208d14a9ea66e9321f/tumblr_om7b58YWTw1uu4f9zo1_500.jpg 1621951;1488598112;phf;^ 1621952;1488598154;asciilifeform;phf: nothing is missing, you can go back to meditation cave if you like 1621953;1488598224;asciilifeform;phf: most of today is re mircea_popescu showed a trb node that's been wedged, in a peculiar way, since july. but the l0g will still be there later. 1621954;1488598773;*;phf nods 1621955;1488598778;phf;that's what i figured 1621956;1488598821;phf;also i can't really go back to the cave. it's the time to buy gifts, and pack shit up. 1621957;1488598958;asciilifeform;aaa india 1621958;1488599049;phf;##### #### #### #### 1621959;1488599056;phf;hmm 1621960;1488599099;phf;Ñинди ÑÑÑи бÑай бÑай 1621961;1488599112;phf;ffs. 1621962;1488599115;asciilifeform;бНОПНЯ ВХРЮК 1621963;1488599180;phf;what i'm trying to say is "hindi rusi bhai bhai" :p 1621964;1488599345;phf;in related lulz i got a lot of "soviet union was a good thing" from conversations with indians. a lot of older indians seem to hate americans and miss the good old "bhai bhai" days 1621965;1488599531;asciilifeform;i have nfi in what shithole today anyone likes the americans. 1621966;1488599886;ben_vulpes;what is this bhai bhai? 1621967;1488601020;phf;it means indians and russians are brothers, and is a slogan for soviet/indian friendship from about 50s to 80s 1621968;1488601028;phf;kruschev said it in bangalore during some '55 visit 1621969;1488601033;phf;bhai is basically hindi for brother, which is bhratri (bratr) in sanskrit, which is same word as russian "brat", english brother, etc. 1621970;1488601065;phf;back then su was pumping resources into india, but according to su economic strategy that mostly resulted in factories and hospitals. now americans are pumping resources, but that mostly results in moar mcdonalds. so naturally men with long memories are testy 1621971;1488601479;ben_vulpes;interesting etymology 1621972;1488603070;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1621973;1488603078;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1277.99, vol: 7635.53514698 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1259.994, vol: 5911.25174 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1284.1, vol: 21605.29528026 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1215.825, vol: 10177.56470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1278.01, vol: 2487.65187048 | Volume-weighted last average: 1265.29565915 1621974;1488625344;mircea_popescu;phf unsurprising ; indian industrialization happened mostly under the soviet... "influence". 1621975;1488642040;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: here, have some lulz: 1621976;1488642075;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there are 1955176872 lines of debug.log between block 419220 and 419221 1621977;1488642164;mircea_popescu;aha. 1621978;1488642168;asciilifeform;~that~ was where the thing sat stalled, for eons 1621979;1488642208;mircea_popescu;and yet. 1621980;1488642208;asciilifeform;but interestingly, quite recently was able to reconnect to the 'first connected to' node, the idiocy i described yesterday, and sync just a bit. 1621981;1488642312;mircea_popescu;so the working theory being, that a) node spent ~weeks trying to digest block 419221 and failing ; b) eventually managed but by then not able to obtain the next one because of reasons discussed except ; c) recently it managed to briefly connect to the magic node it would talk to and get another 100 or so blocks ? 1621982;1488642330;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/wtf/1000000_since_419373.txt 1621983;1488642339;asciilifeform;^ for convenient reading 1621984;1488642360;asciilifeform;'recently' is a poor choice of word, i cannot say exactly when. 1621985;1488642372;asciilifeform;can only estimate, like archaeologist using carbon14 decay.. 1621986;1488642499;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1621987;1488642505;asciilifeform;and if you grep this for 00000000000000000136 , guess what 1621988;1488642515;mircea_popescu;it's about my own conclusion. i'd say it belies the need for some fixing. 1621989;1488642533;asciilifeform;you see exactly what i described -- your node asks, and asks, and asks peers for it 1621990;1488642534;asciilifeform;never gets. 1621991;1488642538;mircea_popescu;yep 1621992;1488642554;asciilifeform;because - i dare say - they ain't nodes 1621993;1488642555;mircea_popescu;very miserable design for a "peer to peer" network. 1621994;1488642558;asciilifeform;they're pseudos 1621995;1488642565;asciilifeform;who don't ~have~ it. 1621996;1488642567;mircea_popescu;this is entirely possible. 1621997;1488642583;asciilifeform;hence 'wires' etc. 1621998;1488643410;asciilifeform;btw mircea_popescu your node spent ages trying to ~get hold of~ 419221. not to digest it. 1621999;1488643426;mircea_popescu;mmm 1622000;1488643443;asciilifeform;digested, as per the log, more or less immediately 1622001;1488643960;asciilifeform;meanwhile, völkischer beobachter entertains, https://archive.is/XajR5 << 'President Trump on Saturday angrily accused former president Barack Obama of orchestrating a “Nixon/Watergate” plot to tap the phones at his Trump Tower headquarters last fall in the run-up to the election .. no evidence ...' 1622002;1488644012;asciilifeform;(i don't recall seeing a 'ru mega-hack accusation ... no evidence' in the beobachter. 1622003;1488644027;asciilifeform;evidence, evidently, is something to demand of mr.t only ) 1622004;1488645040;asciilifeform;!!up mrottenkolber 1622005;1488645041;deedbot;mrottenkolber voiced for 30 minutes. 1622006;1488645053;mrottenkolber;wait trilema is a person 1622007;1488645066;mrottenkolber;this feels awkwardly like a person cult now 1622008;1488645234;mrottenkolber;so I'm curious, where do you guys stand politically? 1622009;1488645244;mrottenkolber;Like, self perception 1622010;1488645352;asciilifeform;mrottenkolber: could try reading the logs 1622011;1488645422;mrottenkolber;right, I'm a dick 1622012;1488645471;asciilifeform;in pygmystan, they have not invented writing yet, gotta retell same yarn again and again and... again. we -- have writing. 1622013;1488645503;mrottenkolber;I know, I know, people are not REPLs 1622014;1488647515;PeterL;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1621939 << I am not sure this would happen, you would still have to verify the blocks - unless you have absolutely no connection to anybody else, in which case you would be equally stuck under current conditions 1622015;1488647515;a111;Logged on 2017-03-04 01:53 asciilifeform: (if you ~only~ requested by height, anyone could put you on 1way voyage to pluto and you'll stay there.) 1622016;1488648012;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D20C2568A16A9E767370BA58A20ED6B2AE063D889E43A436B94BC613FC328C47 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...2833 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.176.90 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.176.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (backoffice.c4h.com. DE) 1622017;1488648012;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D20C2568A16A9E767370BA58A20ED6B2AE063D889E43A436B94BC613FC328C47 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...9937 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.176.90 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.176.90 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (backoffice.c4h.com. DE) 1622018;1488649676;ben_vulpes;hey hey! i've got a node wired up to dulap. 1622019;1488649687;ben_vulpes;neat street, stan my man 1622020;1488649701;asciilifeform;congrats to ben_vulpes , the first d00d to request , and be issued, a wire to dulap. 1622021;1488649727;asciilifeform;( ideally this won't end up a star topology around this 1 poor box !! ) 1622022;1488649766;ben_vulpes;i don't have a master in place yet, but i am also willing to extend wire peerings to my l1 1622023;1488649793;ben_vulpes;it is what, ten minutes of work to set the master up 1622024;1488649803;asciilifeform;imho the Right Thing is, each node is wired to a handful of serious people. 1622025;1488649835;asciilifeform;and if you have a trb built with wires, it is 10min work (on client end), 10 seconds on the master. 1622026;1488649868;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: congrats to you, you did all the hard work. tank brigade goes nowhere without the engineers laying down bridgework 1622027;1488649872;asciilifeform;now it is also important to understand the limitations of the current wires patch. there is ~no~ prioritization . 1622028;1488649885;asciilifeform;the one thing you are guaranteed is that your node won't perma-drop the wire. 1622029;1488649902;asciilifeform;in fact if the peer on the other end of the wire goes down, you will get multi-MB whine in your log. 1622030;1488649936;asciilifeform;(i was unable to think of any reasonable way around this. if you silence the whine, you will never know that your wire peers dropped.) 1622031;1488649993;asciilifeform;there is no prioritization because of trb's fundamentally idiotic uniprocess socket handling. ( if there is no preemption - there can be no meaningful prioritization ! ) 1622032;1488650072;ben_vulpes;off the cuff, would an exponential whine backoff suck? 1622033;1488650090;asciilifeform;yes, because you go on a month's voyage and come back to 0 clue. 1622034;1488650111;asciilifeform;what the thing really needs is 'indicator lamp', i.e. a field in getstatus that shows last event that happened on each wire. 1622035;1488650116;ben_vulpes;ah 1622036;1488650125;asciilifeform;but i will leave this to other folx for nao 1622037;1488650131;ben_vulpes;well come now, "it didn't connect at minute 1, 2, 4..." 1622038;1488650200;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: as is screamingly obvious from the earlier thread with mircea_popescu -- the debug log is terrifyingly inadequate for ~any serious work 1622039;1488650216;mircea_popescu;so it is. 1622040;1488650221;asciilifeform;not only timestamp is missing, also 1622041;1488650226;asciilifeform;and not only truncated (why?!) txid 1622042;1488650235;asciilifeform;but also, we never learn what came in , and from where 1622043;1488650238;ben_vulpes;hash and height for that matter 1622044;1488650239;asciilifeform;or what was sent, and to whom 1622045;1488650245;asciilifeform;and in response to what. 1622046;1488650254;asciilifeform;can ~infer~ , ~sometimes~, yes. 1622047;1488650257;asciilifeform;but this is a laugh. 1622048;1488650272;ben_vulpes;aight, aight, i forget that i'm the only person using svlogd 1622049;1488650355;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: what's that do 1622050;1488650367;ben_vulpes;this is a desirable situation? that trb logging include timestamps and shit into log that which came from whom? 1622051;1488650411;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: rotation and timestamping. 1622052;1488650425;asciilifeform;these are the smallest, by far, problems 1622053;1488650444;asciilifeform;and yes, if you want to debug, you gotta log. don't think the enemy doesn't log your plaintext. 1622054;1488650456;asciilifeform;(and with , i picture, much better detail than stock trb's log ) 1622055;1488650535;asciilifeform;also imho mempool events oughta reside in separate log. 1622056;1488650775;asciilifeform;incidentally, ben_vulpes , if mircea_popescu had ANY kind of reasonable log rotation in his node -- i would have had nothing to work with ! 1622057;1488650787;asciilifeform;this is why i don't think much of auto-rotation 1622058;1488650807;mircea_popescu;you are not alone. 1622059;1488650809;asciilifeform;rotate -- manually. when you're satisfied that there is no further use for the multi-GB log 1622060;1488650822;ben_vulpes;aye aye 1622061;1488650825;asciilifeform;whereas if your node is launched to pluto, and you know that you will never read the log -- turn it off ! 1622062;1488650854;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, recall our ancient discussion re "buried nodes" and my reluctance ? dja understand HOW MANY OF THESE THERE ARE, silent unknown failure modes ? 1622063;1488650895;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: actually i have nfi how many 1622064;1488650936;asciilifeform;incidentally there is ye olde disk-is-full. and in future trbi with fixedwidth tx and block, node knows ~exactly when disk will fill, years in advance. 1622065;1488650961;asciilifeform;you bolt in a disk, and know 'this many TB -- this many year' 1622066;1488651059;asciilifeform;in classical trb, you have the 1MB/10min worstcase. but tightbounds are better. 1622067;1488651082;ben_vulpes;subject of trbi, did i miss a way for a parent to cancel a cask ask shy of fibbing? 1622068;1488651095;asciilifeform;(in trb, you also, recall, have the tx index db, and literally nobody knows what the dynamics are there) 1622069;1488651099;ben_vulpes;roll i mean, not ask 1622070;1488651110;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you didn't miss, there is no such thing 1622071;1488651161;asciilifeform;a promise that can be 'takebacked' any time, is no promise at all 1622072;1488651165;asciilifeform;it is either kept -- or not kept ! 1622073;1488651169;asciilifeform;once made. 1622074;1488651212;ben_vulpes;yes, you walked the promises side of the problem exhaustively. 1622075;1488651233;asciilifeform;when you roll a cask, you are saying, ultimately -- to a tx maker -- 'there is a place in a block reserved for your tx, fire away' 1622076;1488651245;ben_vulpes;and there's no way to get transactions into blocks absent casks, right? 1622077;1488651270;asciilifeform;not for anyone other than the miner 1622078;1488651296;asciilifeform;(miner can, if he likes, connect mouth hose directly to own arse, for so long as his blocks validate, he will simply forgo the fees then ) 1622079;1488651475;asciilifeform;note that the miner is theoretically free to distribute some, or all of, the space in his block in any other way -- e.g. via dartboard, or sheep entrails, etc 1622080;1488651507;asciilifeform;the cask scheme is simply a way to impedance-match a high tx pressure to finite space in blocks, with maximally (afaik) frictionless market. 1622081;1488651554;asciilifeform;where you avoid the situation from mircea_popescu's old essay where 'in broken market, you give a bag of maybe-money in return for a bag of perhaps-potatoes' and everybody goes home to learn how cheated he was 1622082;1488651595;asciilifeform;key is to abolish the maybe-money in favour of money, and throw out the perhaps-potatoes in favour of definitively and immediately palpable potatoes. 1622083;1488651771;asciilifeform;and yes, this only works with nodes that have cryptographically hard identity. and not with the syphilitic orgy familiar to classical trb users. 1622084;1488651835;ben_vulpes;is the cask system design necessarily exclusive of a mempool design? 1622085;1488651852;asciilifeform;it is specifically a replacement for mempool 1622086;1488651864;asciilifeform;which is a dumbfoundingly idiotic concept: it is promisetronic IN BOTH DIRECTIONS 1622087;1488651886;asciilifeform;in the direction of tx-author -> mempool : 'here, i'ma take a dump, and YOU verify and store it' 1622088;1488651905;asciilifeform;from mempool operator to tx author -> 'oh here, take your dump, i PROMISE!111 i won't just throw it into the toilet' 1622089;1488651926;asciilifeform;and in no case does it offer a means of marketing one's path-to-miner 1622090;1488651947;asciilifeform;aside from ad-hoc wires-for-pay and other orc duct tape 1622091;1488651960;asciilifeform;(the logical end of ~that~, is visa and swift.) 1622092;1488652015;ben_vulpes;well there is the protocolitic commitment that if the transaction is included, the miner will receive a fee, but that's it. 1622093;1488652034;asciilifeform;none of the ~other~ people who made the show happen, get anything at all. 1622094;1488652039;asciilifeform;in the classical system. 1622095;1488652085;asciilifeform;all they get is the bill, for geometrically-expanding disk footprint and cpu burn. 1622096;1488652193;ben_vulpes;yes, if you want to drive, must have a car. 1622097;1488652229;asciilifeform;eventually this turns into 'if you want to fly, must have a plane' 1622098;1488652269;asciilifeform;or, worse, 'if you want to drive, must lay own asphalt' 1622099;1488652302;ben_vulpes;one of the things i took away from the past week of mega logs is that blockchains may have finite lifespans 1622100;1488652328;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: absolutely ~everything~ has finite lifespan. 1622101;1488652400;ben_vulpes;myup. 1622102;1488652428;ben_vulpes;hey at least we get an interesting pricing exercise out of it! 1622103;1488652492;asciilifeform;incidentally the nonsense where 'hey, node operators get paid in Being Able To Use Bitcoin' needs to be put to rest properly 1622104;1488652564;asciilifeform;because Being Able To Use Bitcoin might pay the bills, for node operator today (or may not, some folx are stuck operating a node for other reasons, say, trb dev work) but enemy can drive up the cost substantially , with no guarantee of an increase on the other side of the balance to match it 1622105;1488652593;asciilifeform;and in fact the idiot variable-length tx scheme, with the attendant db, guarantees geometric growth in the cost 1622106;1488652596;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1622003 << just one more of the libertard words. "evidence", "science" "consensus" "Rape" etcetera. 1622107;1488652596;a111;Logged on 2017-03-04 16:13 asciilifeform: evidence, evidently, is something to demand of mr.t only ) 1622108;1488652626;asciilifeform;( note that nobody guarantees you, node keeper, any kind of geometric growth in your income from Being Able To Use Bitcoin, even in happy dreams when you sleep ) 1622109;1488652649;asciilifeform;result is a convergence to visa. 1622110;1488652705;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1622031 << yes but this is also the major drag on wires adoption. they buy, little. 1622111;1488652705;a111;Logged on 2017-03-04 17:53 asciilifeform: there is no prioritization because of trb's fundamentally idiotic uniprocess socket handling. ( if there is no preemption - there can be no meaningful prioritization ! ) 1622112;1488652724;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: they buy 1 thing -- a guaranteed avoidance of the situation of mircea_popescu's node 1622113;1488652746;mircea_popescu;it's not clear the node'd have asked the wire. 1622114;1488652749;asciilifeform;where 'prb, prb everywhere, and not a drop to drink' 1622115;1488652775;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it asked, and asked, and asked, as far as i can tell, a great many peers 1622116;1488652784;asciilifeform;this, from the posted log. 1622117;1488652790;asciilifeform;nobody gave a useful answer. 1622118;1488652791;asciilifeform;nobody. 1622119;1488652793;mircea_popescu;there is that. 1622120;1488652808;mircea_popescu;should have permabanned them, is my current thinking. 1622121;1488652828;mircea_popescu;it seems to me, that if i make a request of anyone and anything - a woman, a shopkeeper, a dog, a bee, and that request is not satisfied, 1622122;1488652836;mircea_popescu;i crush the bee, shopkeeper, woman, etcetera. 1622123;1488652841;asciilifeform;i tried permabanning everybody-symptomatic-of-prbism 1622124;1488652841;mircea_popescu;what's so special about bitcoin nodes ? 1622125;1488652843;asciilifeform;didn't end well 1622126;1488652848;mircea_popescu;you fail to answer, you get bombed. hurray. 1622127;1488652873;asciilifeform;vermin-zapping worx best as part of a balanced died, of making friends with non-vermin. 1622128;1488652879;mircea_popescu;there is that. 1622129;1488652880;asciilifeform;*diet 1622130;1488652952;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-04#1622055 << the discussion of separating logs happened when we last talked of logs and how to improve them, cca 2015ish. 1622131;1488652952;a111;Logged on 2017-03-04 18:02 asciilifeform: also imho mempool events oughta reside in separate log. 1622132;1488652978;asciilifeform;aha! i tried to dig up the thread, so far failed 1622133;1488653008;asciilifeform;but iirc there was indeed a thread, where mircea_popescu suggested multiple log streams, that can be separated or combined as necessary 1622134;1488653016;mircea_popescu;yes 1622135;1488653021;mircea_popescu;like you know, among sane people. 1622136;1488653390;asciilifeform;no one will ever confuse anything we might recognize as trb for any artifact from the distant Planet of Sane People. 1622137;1488653456;asciilifeform;( though i have never, myself, been to this paradise, and the only artifact i know of from it is via pure rumour, the marvelous orichalcum-powered golden dildoes ) 1622138;1488653517;mircea_popescu;kek 1622139;1488653549;mircea_popescu;gold makes a terrible dildo, incidentally. silver's better, somewhat. 1622140;1488654405;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1622141;1488654413;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1257.17, vol: 5085.29209634 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1253.0, vol: 4215.02807 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1265.3, vol: 16820.37490705 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1193.35145, vol: 7106.06290000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1260.001, vol: 1520.70750942 | Volume-weighted last average: 1247.67231371 1622142;1488654625;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/bitcoin-network-mining-difficulty-up-yet-again-to-460769358090-71423340-for-new-all-time-high/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Mining Difficulty Up Yet Again To 460769358090.71423340 For New All Time High 1622143;1488655626;ben_vulpes;in other rallies and gendered binary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKdi7MN7lCQ 1622144;1488657593;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/04/the-diversification-scam-is-spreading-you-thin-and-stealing-your-money-so-knock-it-off-already/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The “diversification” scam is spreading you thin and stealing your money. So knock it off already. 1622145;1488658920;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6821 1622146;1488659769;ben_vulpes;> find two or three prospective all stars 1622147;1488659771;ben_vulpes;lolk 1622148;1488659821;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski missed vanguard takeover of the world? ria's successfully still hawk high load funds in the northeast? 1622149;1488659877;pete_dushenski;two or three is better than 20 or 30 for fee management 1622150;1488659889;pete_dushenski;and vanguard is mentioned. nfi what ria is 1622151;1488659909;pete_dushenski;registered investment advisor mabbe ? 1622152;1488659926;ben_vulpes;mhm, part of the sro song and dance they do down here 1622153;1488659954;pete_dushenski;also north of montana isn't really northeast yknow 1622154;1488660028;ben_vulpes;ah right 1622155;1488660086;pete_dushenski;anyways, i have no love lost for etfs even if their fees are lower than mutual funds of yesteryear. they're still a hodgepodge of thinly distributed garbage. i don't know anyone who seriously reaps a return from them. 1622156;1488660411;pete_dushenski;i like to remind anyone tempted to buy etfs "for safety" that cash outperformed every vanguard offering in 2007. lest we forget that ~half~ of the returns of us stocks during the last fifty years were dictated by only ten days. 1622157;1488660541;ben_vulpes;didn't cash outperform everything in 2007? 1622158;1488660590;pete_dushenski;you could probably find a few exceptions other than cash but not many 1622159;1488660764;ben_vulpes;i have no idea what you're getting at by pointing out that cash outperformed everything (incl. vg index funds, duh?) plus that index gains occur on a limited number of days 1622160;1488660782;ben_vulpes;gains in any asset. 1622161;1488660860;asciilifeform;lol fiatola 'savings' 1622162;1488660946;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: simply the (perhaps obvious to log readers) point that diversification isn't a panacea particularly in the manner used by 'advisors', which is to say, within sectors and within asset classes rather than between them 1622163;1488660986;ben_vulpes;mhm 1622164;1488660988;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: your airquotes just burst a million middle class bubbles 1622165;1488660990;ben_vulpes;hey, do sector rotation next! 1622166;1488661005;pete_dushenski;i thought you had the rotation covered ? 1622167;1488661024;pete_dushenski;and timestamping! 1622168;1488661031;pete_dushenski;:) 1622169;1488661052;ben_vulpes;eh, won't be at this place long enough to make proper rotation worthwhile 1622170;1488661185;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03247/assets_3247927b.jpg 1622171;1488661214;pete_dushenski;!~google gilts 1622172;1488661215;jhvh1;pete_dushenski: Gilts Definition | Investopedia: ; About Gilts - UK Debt Management Office: ; Gilt -edged securities - Wikipedia: 1622173;1488661239;pete_dushenski;uk bonds eh 1622174;1488661286;ben_vulpes;lol, n. am equities did so badly they didn't even make the screenshot? 1622175;1488661297;ben_vulpes;and where's cash in the 2007 col 1622176;1488661348;pete_dushenski;mia 1622177;1488661390;ben_vulpes;poor cash 1622178;1488661394;ben_vulpes;rip cash 1622179;1488661480;pete_dushenski;you'd be better off investing in old timepieces with overkilled documentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0mRLcGbU8 1622180;1488661518;ben_vulpes;eh i'd rather invest in dirt 1622181;1488661560;pete_dushenski;not quite as portable. jew's gotta stay on his toes imo. 1622182;1488661648;ben_vulpes;if invest time as well, returns are denominate in knowledge. 1622183;1488661657;ben_vulpes;denominated* 1622184;1488661770;pete_dushenski;always a +ev strategy that. 1622185;1488662360;pete_dushenski;bbl. someone's nap ended too soon 1622186;1488662398;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: siempre 1622187;1488664573;trinque;hm, deedbot still trapped on a netsplit eh? 1622188;1488664731;mircea_popescu;seems so. 1622189;1488667006;asciilifeform;'A spokesman for Barack Obama on Saturday rejected claims by U.S. President Donald Trump that the then-president had wiretapped Trump in October during the late stages of the presidential election campaign, saying it was "simply false."' 1622190;1488667012;asciilifeform;lel, 'i am not a crook!1111' (tm) (r) 1622191;1488667022;mircea_popescu;did he offer proof ? 1622192;1488667027;asciilifeform;'"Neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false," Obama spokesman Kevin Lewis said in a statement.' << 'proof' 1622193;1488667033;mircea_popescu;ahahaha WHAT 1622194;1488667052;mircea_popescu;they assassinated us citizens. wtf, what planet is this ? 1622195;1488667084;asciilifeform;jesuitistically, it's tru! obummer does not order surveillance, pocket judge orders. 1622196;1488667088;asciilifeform;formally. 1622197;1488667113;mircea_popescu;"Now, both The New York Times and The Washington Post confirm that the Obama White House has now expressly authorized the CIA to kill al-Alwaki no matter where he is found, no matter his distance from a battlefield." 1622198;1488667118;mircea_popescu;today in things that never happened. 1622199;1488667127;mircea_popescu;where is my fucking razor for the internet ? 1622200;1488667162;mircea_popescu;"2010 too far away for ameritards hurr" 1622201;1488667182;asciilifeform;'"No president can order a wiretap. Those restrictions were put in place to protect citizens from people like you," Rhodes wrote on Twitter.' 1622202;1488667185;asciilifeform;didjaknow. 1622203;1488667203;mircea_popescu;it's vaguely amusing, just how idiotic the monkeys are. 1622204;1488667234;asciilifeform;it gets better: 1622205;1488667252;asciilifeform;'Under U.S. law, a federal court would have to have found probable cause that the target of the surveillance is an "agent of a foreign power" in order to approve a warrant authorizing electronic surveillance of Trump Tower.' << this is the 'proof' apparently : 'if obummer did it, it Proves Ru Stooge' 1622206;1488667273;mircea_popescu;lmao ok. 1622207;1488667278;mircea_popescu;they need a new book. 1622208;1488667502;asciilifeform;'The 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, the radical cleric and U.S. citizen who was killed in a drone strike in 2011, was reportedly among those killed Sunday during a raid in Yemen. The Guardian reported that Nawar al-Awlaki was killed after suffering a gunshot wound to the neck.' -- feb.2 1622209;1488667511;mircea_popescu;aww. 1622210;1488667572;asciilifeform;kick-the-dog. 1622211;1488667597;asciilifeform;dog gotta stay freshly kicked at all times. 1622212;1488667639;mircea_popescu;the audacity, you know. criminal head of terrorist state, and they dare even speak. 1622213;1488667660;mircea_popescu;"oh, we were justified". bitch, the fucking towelheads say the exact same thing. you're all justified. 1622214;1488667904;asciilifeform;recall ghadaffi's kid also. 1622215;1488667916;asciilifeform;(iirc also 8 y.o. gurl, nailed on direct orders from reagan) 1622216;1488668025;mircea_popescu;she was us citizen ? 1622217;1488668040;asciilifeform;mno, but afaik the earlier one also not 1622218;1488668054;asciilifeform;only dog-kick. 1622219;1488668066;mircea_popescu;the daughter of us citizen wasn't us citizen ? how ? 1622220;1488668105;asciilifeform;actually i have nfi if d00d was ever formally drummed out of usa citizenship 1622221;1488668198;mircea_popescu;this isn't possible. 1622222;1488668210;asciilifeform;it is possible on paper 1622223;1488668254;asciilifeform;i got passport right here, pg. 7 says: 'under some circumstances, you may lose your u.s. citizenship...' 1622224;1488668326;asciilifeform;https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481 << here we go. 1622225;1488668384;mircea_popescu;that;s a novel notion. 1622226;1488668390;asciilifeform;now for some peculiar reason there are almost no cases. 1622227;1488668479;mircea_popescu;the theory being that "the dude gve it up by pariticpating in something we call a military of something we won't call a state" ? 1622228;1488668487;mircea_popescu;theory has no legal legs to stand on. 1622229;1488668500;mircea_popescu;until and unless us recognizes the state of taliban-isis, the guy'\s not covered. 1622230;1488668548;asciilifeform;probably why there appears to be 0 public record of any proceedings to revoke his citizenship 1622231;1488668574;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1622232;1488668602;asciilifeform;( incidentally, lack of citizenship dun seem to keep, e.g., noriega, from sitting in american jail ) 1622233;1488668946;asciilifeform;notice how it takes, what, six figs usd in dubious legal fees, to cancel u.s. citizenship voluntarily. and for no prosecution of anyone, ever, was it cancelled, quite the opposite, usg will happily extend honourary 'citizenship' to ~anyone, for $ 0 , and permanent room in the finest prison with it. 1622234;1488669001;asciilifeform;citizen is easier, rather than harder, to hunt, various orgs that do business in usa are coaxed into proactively keeping tabs on'em; this was covered iirc in a few old mircea_popescu pieces re bank 1622235;1488669026;mircea_popescu;i dunno what we're discussing now, but anyway. original point was re bahamas being a murderer liar etc. 1622236;1488669050;asciilifeform;i'll point out that mr.t signed off on the 8yo corpse 1622237;1488669053;asciilifeform;rather than obummer 1622238;1488669084;asciilifeform;(who signed off on the first two, al-alwaki and his son) 1622239;1488669123;asciilifeform;incidentally there is supposed to have been a mr.t ralley in dc today, but i found 0 mention of it on the net, 0 photos, etc. 1622240;1488669158;asciilifeform;very very helpful google. 1622241;1488669168;mircea_popescu;yes, but the fact that both trump and obama grabbed pussy is a detriment to the monkey. 1622242;1488669171;mircea_popescu;trump said he was gonna. 1622243;1488678683;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EAE9038BB39A9A622B1F2EB69574DA1D9901BAFC216C68CE9DE2BD27166EFDAC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1694...1807 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '70.168.8.58 (ssh-rsa key from 70.168.8.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (wsip-70-168-8-58.ri.ri.cox.net. US CT) 1622244;1488678683;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EAE9038BB39A9A622B1F2EB69574DA1D9901BAFC216C68CE9DE2BD27166EFDAC << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...4733 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '70.168.8.58 (ssh-rsa key from 70.168.8.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (wsip-70-168-8-58.ri.ri.cox.net. US CT) 1622245;1488678787;BingoBoingo;lol ri.ri 1622246;1488679552;Reuel;Hello guys, a bit of a tl;dr here 1622247;1488679559;Reuel;I wanted to contribute, and it irks me to admit, but I don't think there is anything meaningful I can contribute at this moment 1622248;1488679565;Reuel;So, for now, you will have to do with mere words: you have my sincere admiration 1622249;1488679575;Reuel;mircea_popescu, I would love to do the experiment you talked about -> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-29#1609441 1622250;1488679575;a111;Logged on 2017-01-29 17:48 mircea_popescu: go do hdd profiling on large symlink load, very useful. 1622251;1488679580;danielpbarron;join eulora 1622252;1488679586;Reuel;however life is getting in the way at the moment, and I don't have time to go through all the TRB code, which is probably a must to understand the context of the experiment 1622253;1488679594;Reuel;I also hold some items in eulora which I should give back if you are on 1622254;1488679600;Reuel;There are 1001 questions I would want to ask here, but I'm starting to feel like a net taker which is a wretched feeling 1622255;1488679609;danielpbarron;you should do work in eulora! 1622256;1488679612;Reuel;vThe reason I keep buzzing around this place is that I get these pangs of inspiration when I visit, which is weird but great 1622257;1488679618;mircea_popescu;lel ok. 1622258;1488679623;Reuel;So I'll be going full lurk mode, except for maybe some feminine replies on Trilema, but let me at least leave a little something 1622259;1488679631;Reuel;This was inspired by this place: http://www.reuel.eu/writing/fiction/a-warm-welcome/ pasted version: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/FwIjU/?raw=true 1622260;1488679638;Reuel;So I'll dedicate it to the republic 1622261;1488679653;Reuel;ah are you on eulora? 1622262;1488679657;danielpbarron;yes 1622263;1488679713;danielpbarron;lol how is it possible two people have eulora accounts and don't know each other 1622264;1488679744;Reuel;well I only did some minor tasks and didnt play again 1622265;1488679797;danielpbarron;being a noob in eulora is a profitable venture, and it consists largely of being ready to do work when an elder needs work done 1622266;1488679849;BingoBoingo;Reuel: Submit a piece to Qntra. Find idiots behaving dumbly and write it up. 1622267;1488679878;Reuel;Yeah, but being profitable is not what I look for in a game per se 1622268;1488679888;Framedragger;Reuel: just fyi, and it's only my humble opinion, but you don't need the context of the whole trb to do the symlink experiment. from what i took of it, it's a matter of testing how various filesystems (probably starting off with ext4) can manage with (very) large numbers of nodes and large numbers of links to nodes. how seek times increase with those numbers of links to links, etc. (as an fs overhead, on top of hdd/sdd). 1622269;1488679928;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the thing is that by now i wouldn't trust the results anyway. dude clearly has nfi what he'd be doing. 1622270;1488679952;Reuel;well I get the hard disk part, but not how it relates to bitcoin 1622271;1488679958;Framedragger;aha, point taken - but reproducible documented methodology / code is still something. 1622272;1488679961;danielpbarron;Reuel, i'm not inviting you to come have fun (although you will probably enjoy it) but you indicated you want to do work in the republic but don't know how. i have told you how 1622273;1488679973;mircea_popescu;i guess so, but there seems no danger of such a wonder, so. 1622274;1488679974;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/minigame-smg-february-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), February 2017 Statement 1622275;1488680036;Reuel;ok let me put it more bluntly, I didn't enjoy dragging tables across green hills 1622276;1488680058;Reuel;I guess that can probably be automated 1622277;1488680181;Reuel;BingoBoingo, does it have to be current? 1622278;1488680185;Reuel;as in news 1622279;1488680194;BingoBoingo;Yes, must be news. 1622280;1488680200;Reuel;right 1622281;1488680243;Reuel;Well there is a lot of failing going on in Dutch IT, I must say 1622282;1488680245;danielpbarron;everything can be automated. the only limit is your own ability to code it 1622283;1488680315;Reuel;danielpbarron, and time of course... but who knows 1622284;1488680343;danielpbarron;what is this, "i want to work but only if it doesn't take any time" 1622285;1488680373;Reuel;I want to work, and I will certainly give time 1622286;1488680413;Reuel;like I said, I dont like to be a net taker but I don't have much time atm 1622287;1488680452;mircea_popescu;lel check it out danielpbarron he stole your blog design! 1622288;1488680456;mircea_popescu;lobbes i mean 1622289;1488680502;Reuel;whats the link? 1622290;1488680537;mircea_popescu; http://lobbesblog.com/2017/lobbesbot-autobid-functionality/ 1622291;1488680660;asciilifeform;http://www.reuel.eu/writing/fiction/a-warm-welcome/ << reuel your box fell down..? 1622292;1488680695;Reuel;BingoBoingo if something crosses my path I will write it up. Government IT/big IT fails of interest? 1622293;1488680730;Reuel;Those are the gift that keeps on giving here 1622294;1488680740;Reuel;Or the gift that keeps on taking, tax money that is 1622295;1488680760;mircea_popescu;helps if it's bitcoin related. 1622296;1488680778;Reuel;asciilifeform, box? 1622297;1488680787;Reuel;ok 1622298;1488680791;asciilifeform;Reuel: your www 1622299;1488680806;Reuel;works for me 1622300;1488680882;asciilifeform;Reuel: not long ago, dutch gov made tall claims of 'blockchain analysis for police work' voodoo. could investigate, translate, post to qntra re which charlatan is selling this 'service', and which bureaucrat on the take -- 'bought', and wtf it consists of 1622301;1488680949;Reuel;hmm, there was something on the radio a few days ago about the Dutch central bank running blockchain tests 1622302;1488680952;Reuel;internal 1622303;1488680958;mircea_popescu;unrelated items. 1622304;1488681004;Reuel;I'll check it out 1622305;1488681149;Reuel;mircea_popescu, I have 2 items I want to return on eulora, are you on 1622306;1488681172;danielpbarron;auction them :p 1622307;1488681180;Reuel;nah theyre not mine 1622308;1488681187;Reuel;he gave them for work 1622309;1488681196;danielpbarron;so like.. as payment for? 1622310;1488681208;Reuel;no they are part of the work hehe 1622311;1488681232;danielpbarron;idk what those 2 items could possibly be 1622312;1488681263;Reuel;well to be honest I thought I still had claim keys 1622313;1488681264;Reuel;but 1622314;1488681296;Reuel;I only seem to have 2 enumerations 1622315;1488681312;Reuel;maybe my memory fails me 1622316;1488681320;danielpbarron;not even worth returning 1622317;1488681334;Reuel;ah ok 1622318;1488681342;Reuel;thats worth nothng then? 1622319;1488681363;danielpbarron;not 0, but not much 1622320;1488681601;mircea_popescu;Reuel dun worry bout it 1622321;1488681707;Reuel;ok... 1622322;1488684474;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/the-californian-dilemma-approaching-peak-lol/ << Qntra - The Californian Dilemma Approaching Peak LOL 1622323;1488684889;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-05#1622287 << he designed a nice, light-weight layout, what can I say :D 1622324;1488684889;a111;Logged on 2017-03-05 02:20 mircea_popescu: lel check it out danielpbarron he stole your blog design! 1622325;1488685577;Framedragger;lobbes: any plan re. comments? curious if you have something without JS in mind. :) (this also answers (with quite a latency) mp's query http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608913 - there's no viable solution *without captcha _and_ without JS*.) 1622326;1488685577;a111;Logged on 2017-01-27 23:48 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608443 << we don't ? when did this unhappen ? 1622327;1488685605;Framedragger;(re. "coming soon" on lobbesblog) 1622328;1488685932;lobbes;I almost want to try something like a !Qcomment command via lobbesbot that'd store comment in a sqlite db. I'm thinking I may be able to 'default deny' input that way, somehow. 1622329;1488685943;lobbes;but I have not really thought it out much 1622330;1488685996;Framedragger;ah, that's one way to do it, via a saner interface with much less cruft... 1622331;1488686094;lobbes;right? then, if I was sure that the data coming in is not shit, I could perhaps automate the generating of the blawg pages, adding in comments from said db at whatever intervals 1622332;1488686115;lobbes;but no idea how to handle selection of blog post text 1622333;1488686148;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-05#1622326 << just checked and realised that your trilema comments don't seem to have any JS, so it seems like i was wrong. (i now realise i had a (rather arbitrary) additional constraint with the original comment long ago, "make it work with a static site", but that's another matter/project altogether.) 1622334;1488686148;a111;Logged on 2017-03-05 03:46 a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 23:48 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608443 << we don't ? when did this unhappen ? 1622335;1488686230;Framedragger;lobbes: selection as in on the website, to provide unique href to selection? 1622336;1488686265;Framedragger;(i'd like a static site + comments-without-captcha-or-JS setup, too, yeah) 1622337;1488686281;lobbes;yeah, seems like it'd be a pain for the commenter to have to manually input that info to the bot 1622338;1488686370;Framedragger;i guess they could include blog post number at least, but then not full proper quotation as you say. arbitrary selection within a DOM element only possible with some JS (trilema and archive.is at least have that JS piece tucked nicely in one place, not a total horror) 1622339;1488686578;Framedragger;so actually, if you were willing to use that text selection JS snippet, i guess it'd be possible, sorta. commenter would paste autogenerated link and write on irc `http://trilema.com/2017/minigame-smg-february-2017-statement/#selection-1017.0-1017.97 << kewl`; but then how about overall comment length (have a way of indicating a multi-irc-line comment), etc... 1622340;1488686663;lobbes;hm, yeah actually, I may end up going down that route 1622341;1488686681;lobbes;I cannot think of any other way either without even a tiny bit of JS 1622342;1488686798;lobbes;either that or I'll just leave it without the ability to properly quote an arbitrary selection. 1622343;1488687200;Framedragger;my maybe-convoluted personal plan was to have a static site generator but to have the comment box be rendered by a dynamic component (hence loaded separately upon user clicking to comment, or sth.) that component does the 'fraud prevention without JS' magic (like with trilema's comments - IP address is sent to html form to be returned as hidden value / whatnot). when comment is submitted, it gets added to some queue 1622344;1488687252;ben_vulpes;you know we have 'fraud prevention without js' already 1622345;1488687255;Framedragger;(your sqlite could do, or something even simpler). when comment is approved, static site generator gets triggered to re-render necessary pages including 'newest comments' box (if present.) etc. 1622346;1488687274;ben_vulpes;!!key Framedragger 1622347;1488687275;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/E2DF986D58A0D3876BA165FACC0510AAFD8AF4B7.asc 1622348;1488687276;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: yes, but it requires a dynamic component on the backend, right? 1622349;1488687283;Framedragger;ah, dat 1622350;1488687314;Framedragger;sure, but in that case one may as well just implement a gpggram-to-blog-comments interface (not that it's a wholly bad idea or anything) 1622351;1488687329;Framedragger;it sure would be nice to just be able to post simple comments on a blogpage, tho. 1622352;1488687338;ben_vulpes;fwiw i thought long and hard about this and ultimately migrated to mp-wp. 1622353;1488687350;Framedragger;:) 1622354;1488687403;Framedragger;i should keep that in mind lest i become unnecessarily overexcited here. 1622355;1488687404;ben_vulpes;my trinque-simulator sez "wtf with this sqlite; have a process listening for changes to the comments table and re-rendering the comments page upon submission" 1622356;1488687430;Framedragger;a postgres trigger, of course 1622357;1488687435;ben_vulpes;what else lol 1622358;1488687526;ben_vulpes;anyways, doing it right is a small shitton of work, very nearly all of which and more is wrapped up in oldish wordpress. 1622359;1488687542;ben_vulpes;the thing that finally sold me was unique footnote references across corpus. 1622360;1488687577;Framedragger;ahh, that *is* nice to have, yeah! 1622361;1488687640;ben_vulpes;aaand in other ultra amusing covers unearthed while partying at the cousins... http://archive.is/udKgb 1622362;1488687700;ben_vulpes;i have nfi what is in it, but spied the cover on the way out 1622363;1488687700;Framedragger;hah! 1622364;1488687703;Framedragger;(it's 4am here, fuck. g'night!) 1622365;1488687717;ben_vulpes;wakefulness ad libitum! 1622366;1488700510;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-455831.txt 1622367;1488715035;mircea_popescu;Framedragger my comments do not use js or captcha. what now. 1622368;1488715064;Framedragger;yes, that's what i (finally) understood - i had assumed wrongly before! 1622369;1488715133;Framedragger;what i _would_ like is to be able to have these kinds of comments in an otherwise static site (the comment box would be the dynamic component, so to speak - an autonomous backend module/script/whatever). not a part of a large ugly php blob. 1622370;1488715138;Framedragger;but, it's still something, definitely! 1622371;1488715157;mircea_popescu;lobbes not a terrible idea, only problem is it cuts to irc line. some comments are long. (otherwise i'd have moved myself) 1622372;1488721092;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-05#1622341 << you could just use mp-wp neh ? 1622373;1488721092;a111;Logged on 2017-03-05 04:04 lobbes: I cannot think of any other way either without even a tiny bit of JS 1622374;1488721102;mircea_popescu;twas looking for a maintainer for a year now. 1622375;1488723962;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6D2448B45BEEAACC5EC64FC3D4EED5704A19BA2C574E3FBAAB9CB19269F8F390 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1752...0407 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '45.43.104.161 (ssh-rsa key from 45.43.104.161 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' () 1622376;1488723962;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6D2448B45BEEAACC5EC64FC3D4EED5704A19BA2C574E3FBAAB9CB19269F8F390 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1505...7367 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '45.43.104.161 (ssh-rsa key from 45.43.104.161 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' () 1622377;1488734811;BingoBoingo;http://qntra.net/2017/03/qntra-s-qntr-february-2017-report/ << Upda-tit with deedbot link 1622378;1488736121;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/9kbuD/?raw=true <<< Shitcoin roundup 1622379;1488736122;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1622380;1488736910;BingoBoingo;tyvm 1622381;1488737255;shinohai;!~ty 1622382;1488737256;jhvh1;You are very welcome Daddy 1622383;1488737526;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/shinohais-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-bitfinexs-token-addiction-transaction-acceleration-and-itbit-rounding-bug/ << Qntra - Shinohai's Shitcoin Roundup Xtend: Bitfinex's Token Addiction, Transaction "Acceleration", and itBit Rounding Bug 1622384;1488737569;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Are you still playing with mp-wp? 1622385;1488737673;shinohai;I still have a copy in archives, but haven't tinkered with it much. jhvh1 and trb keep me pretty busy. 1622386;1488737705;BingoBoingo;Ah, so you've never played blog with it? 1622387;1488737910;shinohai;Not yet .... I stood up a copy on lan and played with it some but you know me and blogging. 1622388;1488737935;shinohai;If it wasn't for mircea_popescu and you constantly reminding me, I probably would never have started Qntra. 1622389;1488737964;*;mircea_popescu waves 1622390;1488738030;*;shinohai waves back, thanks mircea_popescu for his motivations over the years. 1622391;1488738053;BingoBoingo;shinohai: Have you considered starting a something to get some editorial experience? Perhaps you can be the publisher of "The Most Serene Republic's Journal Of Gardening And Whoreticulture"? 1622392;1488738105;mircea_popescu;lel 1622393;1488738118;shinohai;Well it's on the list, something whore related. Still trying to build the slut following with my twitter bot at moment. 1622394;1488738124;mircea_popescu;whore tit culture ? nb, nb, prolly can get plastic surgery ads. 1622395;1488738153;BingoBoingo;Veggies and Girls, what could go wrong? 1622396;1488738206;shinohai;I had a no-shit "Vegan Dominatrix" follow me the other day. Whole new subculture I never heard about. 1622397;1488739601;BingoBoingo;These things happen 1622398;1488740437;trinque;beat ya with cucumbers or what? 1622399;1488742003;*;shinohai shudders at the thought of a cucumber strapon 1622400;1488751323;mircea_popescu;yeah, what exactly does she do, force subbies off meat ? 1622401;1488751346;mircea_popescu;"but mistress, i'm gay" "SILENCE WHEN YOU SPEAK TO ME WORM!!1!" 1622402;1488752154;BingoBoingo;http://oglaf.com/skinmount/ 1622403;1488752872;mircea_popescu;lel 1622404;1488765314;mircea_popescu;Framedragger thinking about it, the ~only correct solution is for the mp-wp maintainer to remove mysql in favour of a flatfile "db" system. then it will be properly static, or as close as its job allows. 1622405;1488765506;*;shinohai mysql is the reason shinohai ..... has procrastinated with mp-wp 1622406;1488766394;mircea_popescu;the calls are isolated, wouldn't be the end of the world to replace with a filesystem equivalent. 1622407;1488769598;shinohai;In home automation news: https://t.co/WolPp0xEyI 1622408;1488770367;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/carambolages-2/ << Trilema - Carambolages 1622409;1488797013;BingoBoingo;SLAC Students discover "crowd control" https://archive.is/nRwmD 1622410;1488797116;BingoBoingo;related to http://qntra.net/2017/03/another-guest-lecturer-attacked-on-us-campus/ 1622411;1488798930;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: i see what you mean, but you can't really call it 'static' by any metric. in point of fact i'm surprised you're not grossed out over the fact that the whole thing is a large stinking pile of dynamic php. i guess the counterargument is that it *gets the job done*, very well, over many years. :) so there's that. but i'd like to ditch the 'wp' from 'mp-wp' one day. but maybe baby steps. 1622412;1488803023;mircea_popescu;what are you going to write it in ? c ? 1622413;1488803061;mircea_popescu;what is this clean great language that doesn't gross one out, i must have missed some classes / log days. 1622414;1488803150;mircea_popescu;php is a hypertext preprocessor. that's what it does, websites. just like the rubber dome in your bathroom unclogs the toilet. does it disgust you ? it's a tool, you're not expected to keep it on the diner table. 1622415;1488803317;mircea_popescu;anyway, re static : in context "static" denotes "how much comes from the disk as opposed as through cpuization", there's no other measure. a page stored as files with the extension .html is ~slightly~ more static than a page which is stored as files with the extension .txt in a directory structure that is their de-facto index and are then mixed together into a thing whenever a page is called. 1622416;1488803361;mircea_popescu;turn it any way you want, a flat, disk-bound website IS in point of fact a "dynamic" website loaded into a de facto disk-bound database. the only difference is that you chose to stupidify the index, which is now "exposed" to the user as a band-aid measure over the fact that you failed to do anything with it. 1622417;1488803453;mircea_popescu;that you go fd.com/article/comments/5/reply/ or somesuch and i go mp.com/article/ is not so much a difference as it appears. 1622418;1488804140;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: that's not the only difference. a 'php' site launches and runs additional process(es) to serve user requests. now i guess you could say that "it's just a detail", on the grand picture it's the same (nginx requires additional resources to serve static files), but that would be stretching it. 1622419;1488804207;Framedragger;as regards language choice, yeah, i see your point, "just use the right tool". thing is, with an *actual* static site, you would not expose the language to the web, at all. the only attack surface would be that of the webserver. cf. a wordpress site which as folks say is a "web shell with blog functionality on the side" :) 1622420;1488804220;Framedragger;(though i'm sure mp-wp is on the whole ~decent in terms of holes/security.) 1622421;1488804480;mircea_popescu;apache does that with your flatsite too. 1622422;1488804489;mircea_popescu;what webserver is there that works like bitcoin, single thread ? 1622423;1488804546;mircea_popescu;and the notion that you won't expose the language to the web is not equivalent to the actuality that you opt to use such a banal language nothing can be done which to your mind is equivalent to "not exposing". the man who doesn't lock his door because his chamber contains no maid is not the same thing as the man who doesn't lock his door because his maid is more danger to the youths about than they to her. 1622424;1488804639;mircea_popescu;pile-of-.html-files exposes your directory structure to the world ; badly set permissions have the same effect as i dunno, mysql with an open hole. 1622425;1488804693;mircea_popescu;the whole thing is kind-of spurious, not like trilema wasn't "attacked". there's even articles celebrating the puzzled wtf of the would be attacker, "wut do you mean my magic has no power here" 1622426;1488804742;Framedragger;right, well-managed permissions ensure that any 'break-in' would only result in one being able to *read* some files. but i think your abstraction breaks quickly: i'm sure your php user is able to write files (file upload), even if to a single dir, and to write to db. so it's still not the same. 1622427;1488804757;mircea_popescu;try it i guess ? 1622428;1488804766;Framedragger;:) 1622429;1488804770;mircea_popescu;otherwise what you're proposing is "but hey, i'd still have root, and ssh or no ssh... it's still the same" 1622430;1488804771;Framedragger;anyway, i see your point. 1622431;1488804778;mircea_popescu;well everything can end up the same to the man determined it be so. 1622432;1488804827;mircea_popescu;just consider this point : trilema has ugh. 1622433;1488804846;Framedragger;i can't see how i can be convinced that launching script-specific php processes is ~same as a webserver allocating a standardised additional unit of its resources (memory / thread etc.) 1622434;1488804870;mircea_popescu;trilema has 71877 articles. 1622435;1488804876;Framedragger;right! 1622436;1488804892;mircea_popescu;in your flat scheme, the words "Trilema - a blog by mircea_popescu " would appear... 72k times! 1622437;1488804899;mircea_popescu;that's MEGABYTES! 1622438;1488804905;Framedragger;ohno!!1 1622439;1488804913;mircea_popescu;seems hardly to justify the foregoing of an index. 1622440;1488804931;mircea_popescu;some kind of index. otherwise you end up repeating shit to high heavens for no reason, and your computer looks more like an abacus. 1622441;1488804932;Framedragger;well, the compression-decompression process is so to speak serialised / offloaded to an fs. not a bad thing! 1622442;1488804945;mircea_popescu;lawd have mercy, you'll run it off squashfs ? 1622443;1488804957;Framedragger;that being said, my point would work better if trilema had been having performance issues... which it ain't. 1622444;1488804967;Framedragger;so myeah. 1622445;1488805016;mircea_popescu;what is the cogent difference between these symbols, "script-specific php processes" and "a standardised additional unit of its resources" ? 1622446;1488805036;Framedragger;no need to compress, what i meant by compression is that an index is sorta-doing that. storing flat files on fs is basically 'flattening' the process over space and time. 1622447;1488805057;mircea_popescu;over space, yes. over time - not necessarily. that is the rub here. 1622448;1488805093;Framedragger;first off, the former has a less clear attack surface, may depend on script in question, etc. second off, may scale not as well (no this is not the same as kiddie complaining that an rdbms is "not web scale"). 1622449;1488805099;Framedragger;hmm. 1622450;1488805100;mircea_popescu;fx = 2x can be flattened into (1, 2), (2, 4), (3, 6) etc. this clearly flattens it in space, but just as clearly fucks up the time. now you have to seek. 1622451;1488805124;Framedragger;seeking, sure. 1622452;1488805132;mircea_popescu;and i'll compute 2 * maxint/2 faster than you'll seek maxint/2 1622453;1488805145;Framedragger;...that's why it's great to host this on a disk with great random access times. 1622454;1488805148;mircea_popescu;and this fundamental problem holds. flat is not necessarily faster. 1622455;1488805174;Framedragger;well, you'd like that "compute faster" line to be true, but it ain't. 1622456;1488805182;mircea_popescu;it's certainly and always larger. but whether it's faster is a harder problem. 1622457;1488805187;Framedragger;..though maxint is a lot of int. 1622458;1488805211;mircea_popescu;Framedragger imagine you have a 64 bit maxint stored as binary tree (provedly - fastest) and now you seek... how many nodes ? 1622459;1488805225;Framedragger;right, basically i'm putting a lot of trust into fs, fundamentally. hence disagreement - fair enough. (to summarise.) 1622460;1488805225;mircea_popescu;(and no, any other storage scheme is cheating -- you're trying to use my f(x) = 2x without admitting it.) 1622461;1488805269;mircea_popescu;neways ; i shall be back to town. anyone wanting to argue the above -- in a few hours. 1622462;1488805623;Framedragger;btw, if you store 2**64 nodes in a (balanced) binary tree, wouldn't the "number of seeks" be ~64? i suppose that doesn't look too pretty, but considering that an ssd's seek time is ~0.1ms... not that these numbers are rigorous or anything. 1622463;1488805639;Framedragger;(number of seeks to access a node.) 1622464;1488805804;trinque;as always with tools, there is not a one-size-fits-all rule to be dumbly applied 1622465;1488805811;trinque;if the thing benefits from caching, cache 1622466;1488805836;Framedragger;(just for posterity, other metrics say that consumer ssds seek average may be ~3ms.) 1622467;1488805839;Framedragger;sure, sure! 1622468;1488805841;trinque;if you're sitting there saying "huh, now my writes take a year because I have to update sidebar comments on every page I ever wrote" 1622469;1488805846;trinque;well, drop your caching scheme! 1622470;1488805848;trinque;for that 1622471;1488805951;trinque;also, good morning. 1622472;1488805958;*;trinque makes espresso 1622473;1488806860;trinque;Framedragger: oh also, take a look at the history of exploits against python sometime. 1622474;1488806917;trinque;all scripting languages written in C are about as syphilitic 1622475;1488806937;trinque;PHP was just the most popular of them 1622476;1488806968;Framedragger;trinque: point taken. :) (i'll only repeat one thing here: in a 'proper static site' setup, one is *not* exposing vulns of a scripting language to the web. only those of the webserver.) 1622477;1488806989;trinque;sure. behold wot.deedbot.org 1622478;1488807046;trinque;Framedragger: though actually I don't buy it 1622479;1488807072;trinque;if your user input is run through your scripting language, how exactly have you changed things in regards to attack surface? 1622480;1488807085;Framedragger;i mean, i have in mind an 'actually properly configured static site'. maybe it's a nonexistent spherical cow in vacuum, sure. 1622481;1488807087;trinque;so my http requests don't run through it; something does 1622482;1488807114;trinque;maybe narrower, sure, but don't treat it like it's safe 1622483;1488807158;Framedragger;well, at least your user input is segregated into two 'containers': 1. GET requests for static files; and 2. user comments - processed by some specific script, separate from the rest. but yeah, this isn't exactly amazing innovation, i agree. 1622484;1488807161;Framedragger;sure... 1622485;1488807211;Framedragger;(also re. g'morning, just had bacon for late brunch, such satiation, but also sleepiness. more coffee it is...) 1622486;1488813754;mircea_popescu;Framedragger it would be 64, yes. 1622487;1488813818;mircea_popescu;64 SEEKS. thousands of asm lines. all i do is a mult. one. 1622488;1488813884;mircea_popescu;look-up table has its niche. it isn;t the universal solution of all computing. 1622489;1488813937;Framedragger;i wonder how well a typical hashtable with 2**64 elements work in practice, tho. where would store its elements? 1622490;1488813944;Framedragger;would work* 1622491;1488813967;Framedragger;memory? 1622492;1488813978;mircea_popescu;probably not. 1622493;1488813995;mircea_popescu;and in other news, they were going to open the school year today, so they went on strike instead. soberania! haymasfuturo! 1622494;1488814002;mircea_popescu;futu-i-in-gura! 1622495;1488814173;trinque;the teachers or students? or can they be discerned? 1622496;1488814306;trinque;also, speaking of wot.deedbot.org (and specifically the generated SVGs) and http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-04#1186410 (which I have patches in hand to fix the build) I may have something of a usable trb map in the near future. 1622497;1488814306;a111;Logged on 2015-07-04 03:18 asciilifeform: so far i'm utterly failing to even get 'codeviz' to build. 1622498;1488814339;trinque;I've been slogging through the thing reading the paths for acquiring and validating blocks, and my god, must have map. 1622499;1488814350;asciilifeform;trinque: how didja make the map ? 1622500;1488814417;trinque;asciilifeform: lots of paring down of output, svg nodes shall be clickable links, only showing to depth 3 on any given page 1622501;1488814426;trinque;not unlike what's on the wot browser 1622502;1488814427;asciilifeform;neato trinque . 1622503;1488814443;asciilifeform;to this very day i haven't anything better than jurov's lxr thing (and the map in my head.) 1622504;1488814500;asciilifeform;( and lxr is quite dumb, it has no ability to distinguish methods of different cpp classes having same name, for instance ) 1622505;1488814673;mircea_popescu;trinque the students are retarded to the point of abrutissement. 1622506;1488815546;mod6;mornin' 1622507;1488817521;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AA482571C81E6473B645402F352ADEE8FAC789C24C049A5E7A755E7243197256 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1395...7303 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '95.240.174.82 (ssh-rsa key from 95.240.174.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (host82-174-static.240-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT VR 34) 1622508;1488817521;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AA482571C81E6473B645402F352ADEE8FAC789C24C049A5E7A755E7243197256 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1638...2319 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '95.240.174.82 (ssh-rsa key from 95.240.174.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (host82-174-static.240-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT VR 34) 1622509;1488817571;shinohai;https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.08719 " we extract 96% of an RSA private key from a single trace." 1622510;1488818739;asciilifeform;Run Moar VM Kolhoz 1622511;1488820351;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/51A4715E6F5562F5ACF8329F35CD21A592B42531B2700B43F9579BC9281EA378 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1705...0847 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '130.88.150.85 (ssh-rsa key from 130.88.150.85 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (dbkdell08.mib.man.ac.uk. GB MAN ENG) 1622512;1488820351;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/51A4715E6F5562F5ACF8329F35CD21A592B42531B2700B43F9579BC9281EA378 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1751...7887 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '130.88.150.85 (ssh-rsa key from 130.88.150.85 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (dbkdell08.mib.man.ac.uk. GB MAN ENG) 1622513;1488820702;mircea_popescu;the pipe dream of the "multi-user computer" 1622514;1488820705;mircea_popescu;machine wants to have single owner. 1622515;1488820865;Framedragger;phuctor is streamlined computer optimisation service. 1622516;1488820877;mircea_popescu;one increment per 4.7 cycles. they really massaged the shit out of it 1622517;1488820924;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this in re waht 1622518;1488820933;mircea_popescu;the breaking virtualization. 1622519;1488820936;asciilifeform;aah 1622520;1488820941;mircea_popescu;the guys did actually splendid work, read the paper, worth it. 1622521;1488820966;mircea_popescu;fig 7 directly what you'd expect based on the competent discussion of "What is a timer" 1622522;1488821012;asciilifeform;looks like quite ordinary (by now) cache timing trick, neh 1622523;1488821015;*;asciilifeform reads 1622524;1488821021;mircea_popescu;yes, just methodically done. 1622525;1488821027;mircea_popescu;it;s not novel in any sense. 1622526;1488821046;asciilifeform;'yesterday's nobel is tomorrow's homework' (tm) (r) (uncle al) 1622527;1488821052;mircea_popescu;quite exactly. 1622528;1488824007;asciilifeform;in other lelzies, http://archive.is/ODtxR >> 'Rather than share the now-classified technological means that investigators used to locate a child porn suspect, federal prosecutors in Washington state have dropped all charges against a man accused of accessing Playpen, a notorious and now-shuttered website.' 1622529;1488824041;asciilifeform;the real gold: '"Disclosure is not currently an option. Dismissal without prejudice leaves open the possibility that the government could bring new charges should there come a time within the statute of limitations when and the government be in a position to provide the requested discovery."' 1622530;1488824093;trinque;we would - I'm sure - be shocked to find that the top secret exploit is the damned rebranded firefox 1622531;1488824100;trinque;aside the fact that tor doesn't work 1622532;1488824155;ben_vulpes;in more lcs gold: http://archive.is/XcC3N << not only are the damned things made of paper and disintegrate as soon as you drop them in the water, but the amount of money that the usg.navy has burnt on them is actually so embarrassing as to be worth a classification fight 1622533;1488824180;asciilifeform;trinque: the ministry of parallel-construction must be on strike, or wut. 1622534;1488824339;ben_vulpes;also something something maersk and ibm cockchain tekmologies 1622535;1488824401;trinque;yawn 1622536;1488824520;trinque;asciilifeform: grunts that did this probably don't get the good toys 1622537;1488824596;asciilifeform;'the good toys' being what -- presumably, items built against something other than tor, winblowz, etc ..? 1622538;1488824671;asciilifeform;does, e.g., heartbleed, qualify as 'good toy' ? considering that openssl was known, to everyone who gave half a rat's arse, to be a cistern of liquishit, long prior ? 1622539;1488824677;trinque;hey man metaNSA is your fanfic not mine 1622540;1488824730;trinque;but yes, they don't want to "disclose" because of the shriveled cock 1622541;1488824833;asciilifeform;the real lul imho is that there appears to be no serious shortage of monkeys willing to run tor 1622542;1488824845;asciilifeform;( and to then 'plead guilty' etc ) 1622543;1488824995;asciilifeform;( while we're on subj, gotta wonder how many of the 'death ray' folx even ~did~ ever do any such thing as running tor, 'dealing on darkmarket', etc. and how many -- simply idiots, infected with usg shitware and then 'plea bargain' because 0 effective defense ) 1622544;1488826145;Framedragger;reminds me, i think i'm still running one tor exit lol. mebbe time to redirect resources 1622545;1488826168;Framedragger;(small virtual machine so wouldn't be too useful for traffic analysis, not much traffic) 1622546;1488826301;asciilifeform;Framedragger: unless you're personally lifting useful bits from the traffic: if it costs even a penny, it's a wasted penny 1622547;1488826347;Framedragger;sure. well, tor had been rather useful to me before, i took from it more than it's taken from me, so at least there's that. :) 1622548;1488826373;Framedragger;(not implying that there's much worth for any noob to start running a tor node *now*.) 1622549;1488826402;asciilifeform;at one point it was an ok place to get shitware samples 1622550;1488826422;asciilifeform;( and the occasional login into various ??? tested by some idiot ) 1622551;1488827643;mircea_popescu;that dude has to be the king of imbeciles to STAY IN THE US 1622552;1488827657;mircea_popescu;which nevertheless he will do, as per alf's "there's no shortage of usg cowsies who WISH to be such." 1622553;1488827674;asciilifeform;lol 1622554;1488827788;mircea_popescu;dude fucks some kids, usg files suit on the expectation that kidfucker is going to be so fucking impressed with them caring he'll sign anything they want. when this expectation fails to materialize, usg asks judge to roll back time, "really for keepsies never happensies", judge agrees, on the rationale that maybe we fuck him later. dude... sticks around. 1622555;1488827815;*;mircea_popescu has participated in this sort of "home invasion" where one girl got fucked, the other one "are you going to fuck me too ?" "maybe tomorrow". on the morrow, dilligent, awaiting her turn... 1622556;1488827888;mircea_popescu;"breaking news : so very importuned were the damsels by that fabled rod, they made an appointment to be visited again next week." 1622557;1488827988;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there is an ancient song re subj, 'бабушка здорова...кушает компот...и мечтает снова...пережить налёт' ( http://www.kbelyaev.ru/txt/babuchka.htm ) 1622558;1488828176;mircea_popescu;aha! 1622559;1488828180;mircea_popescu;more than one, i daresay 1622560;1488828184;mircea_popescu;the plumber, always rampant. 1622561;1488828189;asciilifeform;that's just the 1 asciilifeform happened to know 1622562;1488828205;asciilifeform;probably everybody from eskimo to pygmy has 1+. 1622563;1488828217;asciilifeform;( anyone know an engl. one?? ) 1622564;1488828255;mircea_popescu;lol fruit confit 1622565;1488828950;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1622566;1488828958;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1277.33, vol: 3951.43467663 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1255.001, vol: 3727.24823 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1277.9, vol: 9123.69593111 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1203.5, vol: 3275.01000000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1276.68, vol: 1065.66551472 | Volume-weighted last average: 1262.17079525 1622567;1488828971;BingoBoingo;Mas Stabilitit 1622568;1488832650;BingoBoingo;https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/03/06/texas-san-antonio-president-quits-over-embraces << No grabbing in Texas 1622569;1488832842;asciilifeform;https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/03/06/u-california-berkeley-delete-publicly-available-educational-content << moar lulz from same rag 1622570;1488833065;BingoBoingo;What a time to live 1622571;1488833078;asciilifeform;'The University of California, Berkeley, will cut off public access to tens of thousands of video lectures and podcasts in response to a U.S. Justice Department order that it make the educational content accessible to people with disabilities.' 1622572;1488833102;asciilifeform;'“This move will also partially address recent findings by the Department of Justice, which suggests that the YouTube and iTunes U content meet higher accessibility standards as a condition of remaining publicly available,” Koshland said. “Finally, moving our content behind authentication allows us to better protect instructor intellectual property from ‘pirates’ who have reused content 1622573;1488833108;asciilifeform;for personal profit without consent.”' 1622574;1488833111;asciilifeform;gold. 1622575;1488833236;trinque;how do they expect me to watch gender studies courses on how to properly sit on my hands? 1622576;1488833395;*;asciilifeform mildly surprised that there is still such a thing as lectures in berkeley, and that anyone bothered to film'em 1622577;1488833456;asciilifeform;iirc there are tall piles of canned lectures from mit, etc, wherever you like, on www; somehow did not lead to magical golden age of learningz. 1622578;1488833784;jurov;i have tried mit ocw. big disappointment, whatever subject I tried, material was utterly incomplete and patchy 1622579;1488833807;trinque;you're doing it all wrong. 1622580;1488833833;trinque;you're supposed to click through them whenever they get linked on reddit, then you put "autodidact" in your twitter profile 1622581;1488833847;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/no-such-labs-snsa-february-2017-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), February 2017 Statement 1622582;1488833903;jurov;trinque: srs? 1622583;1488833954;trinque;I... refuse to answer that. 1622584;1488833984;jurov;kek 1622585;1488833992;Framedragger;^ snsa statement << awesome, good news 1622586;1488838192;mircea_popescu;and in five-year-old-lulz, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10290243/Russia-mocks-Britain-the-little-island.html 1622587;1488838258;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform VIDEO lectures / podcasts are entirely fucking useless for any academic purpose, as i'm sure you know. 1622588;1488838323;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the sicp film was ~watchable, but it is ancient, 1980s, and not even filmed at mit iirc (sussman taught the class for hp employees) 1622589;1488838337;mircea_popescu;i guess. 1622590;1488838363;mircea_popescu;pretty much the only topic on which video works is girl fucking. and even there -- stills are preferable. 1622591;1488838386;asciilifeform;aactually i can think of 1 other subj 1622592;1488838390;asciilifeform;metalwork 1622593;1488838401;mircea_popescu;ie hand cnc-ing ? 1622594;1488838406;asciilifeform;aha 1622595;1488838412;mircea_popescu;how the fuck is this academic. 1622596;1488838426;mircea_popescu;yes, technical instruction works best in the manner of monkey see monkey do 1622597;1488838427;asciilifeform;( incidentally mircea_popescu might be surprised how much 'hand cnc' is still involved in cnc practice ) 1622598;1488838434;mircea_popescu;we were discussing the needs of people not of the fucking orc. 1622599;1488838474;mircea_popescu;i don't give a shit. there's a woman on her knees polishing my floor as we speak. you propose her trade is academic also ? 1622600;1488838486;mircea_popescu;because yes, i'm sure she learned by watching another interchangeable item just like her. 1622601;1488838494;asciilifeform;yeah yeah we all read our aristitle etc. 1622602;1488838499;asciilifeform;*aristotle 1622603;1488838521;mircea_popescu;no please, video feed of some dork reading for me, i'm fucking george over here. 1622604;1488838552;asciilifeform;lecture is not any more necessarily 'some dork reading' than, e.g., comedy is 1622605;1488838580;mircea_popescu;academics is the exclusive domain of the written form. if one can not convey in that manner, one is entirely inadherent to any sort of academic life. 1622606;1488838610;asciilifeform;the folx whose lectures ~anybody still watches, e.g., sussman, are known largely for the written form 1622607;1488838615;mircea_popescu;in fact -- if ANY professor is better through video than writing, and i don't mean better overall - if he is better in any one definite way, then THEREFORE that person is not a professor but a hunting dog. 1622608;1488838686;mircea_popescu;if writing is not your strongest asset, you are not an academic and stick to the stage, doing whatever parlor tricks. 1622609;1488838923;*;asciilifeform grudgingly discovers that he does not disagree with mircea_popescu 1622610;1488838933;mircea_popescu;there we go. 1622611;1488838989;mircea_popescu;and there's nothing wrong with women fucking, nor with the actress, cnc miller's or floor washer's art. heck, god knows i've had my private female property engage in all of those. but it sure as fuck ain't academic, forgetaboutit. 1622612;1488839036;asciilifeform;i dun expect to live to so much as see from a distance, a female so much as touching a cnc machine 1622613;1488839051;asciilifeform;but on mircea_popescu's planet, more wondrous wonders than this, are known. 1622614;1488839074;mircea_popescu;why not ? 1622615;1488839112;asciilifeform;i don't know precisely why not. but it is in asciilifeform's lived experience, fwiw, a 'man bites the dog' 1622616;1488839126;mircea_popescu;girl wanted to make span 1622617;1488839139;mircea_popescu;or how do you call it in english, the colorful byproduct. 1622618;1488839145;asciilifeform;swarf? 1622619;1488839159;mircea_popescu;there you go. 1622620;1488839165;asciilifeform;why on earth would anyone want swarf 1622621;1488839167;asciilifeform;other than for thermite 1622622;1488839170;mircea_popescu;it's pretty! 1622623;1488839173;asciilifeform;lol!! 1622624;1488839179;mircea_popescu;well ? it is. 1622625;1488839186;*;asciilifeform has at this very minute a shop vac full of 'pretty' 1622626;1488839196;mircea_popescu;aha. ended up used as costume jewelry. 1622627;1488839237;asciilifeform;what else she wears as jewelry ? concertina wire ? 1622628;1488839250;mircea_popescu;lol. it went on the stage, yo! to grand effect! 1622629;1488839255;asciilifeform;( if you're cutting anything other than brass, you get ~= razor wire , like clockwork ) 1622630;1488839275;mircea_popescu;nah, steel will make these pretty colorful blue-to-yelloy bands 1622631;1488839277;mircea_popescu;aluminum also. 1622632;1488839286;*;asciilifeform is apparently Doing It Wrong 1622633;1488839293;mircea_popescu;you're doing it fast 1622634;1488839299;mircea_popescu;this was an ancient, not very useful tool. 1622635;1488839315;mircea_popescu;and so the swarf was basically testimony of uneven work hardening. 1622636;1488839348;*;asciilifeform can picture this 1622637;1488839376;mircea_popescu;kinda why she ended up doing herself, normal people (tm) have other priorities than making the swarf pretty. 1622638;1488850295;shinohai;https://github.com/BitcoinUnlimited/BitcoinUnlimited/pull/344 This pull request changes "Bitcoin Unlimited" to "Zero-Confirmation StarbucksCoin," 1622639;1488850357;mircea_popescu;kek 1622640;1488850787;ben_vulpes;ahaha 1622641;1488850801;ben_vulpes;hey, it's julia tourianski! 1622642;1488850806;ben_vulpes;nominally 1622643;1488852702;mod6;smh 1622644;1488852766;mod6;"I was told core has all the best dev and you guys let us down like this..." << lmao 1622645;1488852881;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in unrelatedia, http://68.media.tumblr.com/529fb21895244fab6e7763a774ed1112/tumblr_ol1q68r2hT1vjt0k0o1_400.gif 1622646;1488853413;mod6;nice 1622647;1488856475;asciilifeform;in other ??? : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871&cpage=1#comment-18047 1622648;1488856748;asciilifeform;'CEO Level Attention’ << lel, almost 'memeworthy' 1622649;1488857000;asciilifeform;!!up magicmoose 1622650;1488857001;deedbot;magicmoose voiced for 30 minutes. 1622651;1488857490;mircea_popescu;is coreboot the thing with the derposexual trying to posture itself into relevancy on other people's code ? 1622652;1488857503;asciilifeform;nein, that'd be 'libreboot' 1622653;1488857506;mircea_popescu;ah! 1622654;1488857516;mircea_popescu;right you are. 1622655;1488857516;asciilifeform;'coreboot' is ye olde linuxbios, that dun work on post-2011 iron 1622656;1488857529;mircea_popescu;unless amd fixes its shit 1622657;1488857537;asciilifeform;or key phuctored. 1622658;1488857565;asciilifeform;('fix' is peculiar choice of word, the minefield laid was quite deliberate and purposeful) 1622659;1488857583;mircea_popescu;well... maybe it didn't have ceo level support. 1622660;1488857615;asciilifeform;reichsführer-level 1622661;1488859375;BingoBoingo;https://i.redditmedia.com/BLwMskbzU-N-i4ohArWoi2tOnGtR-L0aiw6s56Vm9yU.jpg?w=739&s=d9239b28830107c4b9420c87db344b0b 1622662;1488859523;shinohai;kek 1622663;1488873537;davout;bonjour everyone 1622664;1488874030;davout;so i did some reading re the wallet separation thing and ended up realizing i had an incorrect idea about trb's internals 1622665;1488874163;davout;i thought i'd find an in-memory UTXO index, which i didn't. appears to me like trb will have to keep some sort of "watched addresses list" after all, or that such an index will have to be bolted in somehow 1622666;1488874185;davout;the former looks like the most practicable option at this point 1622667;1488896650;mircea_popescu;!!up dm0n_ 1622668;1488896650;deedbot;dm0n_ voiced for 30 minutes. 1622669;1488896700;mircea_popescu;davout this links into which part of the conversation ? 1622670;1488896711;dm0n_;thks 1622671;1488896718;mircea_popescu;aha. an' who might you be ? 1622672;1488897806;Reuel;https://twitter.com/wikileaks 1622673;1488897819;Reuel;Anyone following this? CIA dump 1622674;1488897865;Reuel;My smart TV :( 1622675;1488897945;mircea_popescu;notrly. trump vs the rogue usg, kinda meh. 1622676;1488898589;Reuel;poor USa... 1622677;1488898680;mircea_popescu;speaking of, asciilifeform what about that ada rsa for eulora! 1622678;1488898696;Reuel;"CIA air-gap jumping viruses" lol gonna read this 1622679;1488900671;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: when 'p' is released, it can be put to use in eulora and elsewhere 1622680;1488900762;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22%27P%27%22 << stretches back... A YEAR. 1622681;1488900768;mircea_popescu;when is this when ? 1622682;1488900791;asciilifeform;ffs i have 2 hands mircea_popescu . 1622683;1488900840;mircea_popescu;hey, didn't that hawking fellow have an eyeball typewriter ? 1622684;1488900846;asciilifeform;arse joystick 1622685;1488900848;asciilifeform;i gotta get one 1622686;1488900869;mircea_popescu;oh i thought you already had THAT 1622687;1488900882;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-07#1622672 << https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1 >> massive bag'o'lulz, in some ways considerably moar 'current' than the snowden rubbish . includes discussion of 'nsa is retarded, they forget to strip out debug crapola', etc 1622688;1488900882;a111;Logged on 2017-03-07 14:43 Reuel: https://twitter.com/wikileaks 1622689;1488900898;asciilifeform;and also hilarious 'HIVE is a multi-platform CIA malware suite and its associated control software. The project provides customizable implants for Windows, Solaris, MikroTik (used in internet routers) and Linux platforms and a Listening Post (LP)/Command and Control (C2) infrastructure to communicate with these implants.' 1622690;1488900900;mircea_popescu;well it'd have to be more current, five years later. 1622691;1488900901;asciilifeform;mikrotik! 1622692;1488900918;asciilifeform;!#s mikrotik 1622693;1488900918;a111;15 results for "mikrotik", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mikrotik 1622694;1488900930;mircea_popescu;anyway, shutting down the "lp/c2" bs is about half the fun of this internet life. 1622695;1488900949;mircea_popescu;half the time they don't even bother to argue the point, go down like common malware artists. 1622696;1488900967;asciilifeform;the wikifolx censored ip list for some reason 1622697;1488900989;mircea_popescu;keeps changing anyway, notjust for above reason. 1622698;1488901049;mircea_popescu;but anyway, the "law enforcement" / terrorist government bs reduces to "we're like in the top 20 or so malware houses". hurr. 1622699;1488901068;mircea_popescu;hardly worth 0.1% of the budget. "cyberwarfare" hurr durr. 1622700;1488901079;asciilifeform;possibly the funniest bit is the docs for their internal gossipd 1622701;1488901100;mircea_popescu;which is badly designed and dun work. 1622702;1488901116;*;asciilifeform has not tested, does not know how well works 1622703;1488901252;asciilifeform;lel, mikrotik is ~the~ platform apparently. 1622704;1488901270;asciilifeform;all versions factory-pwned, just as suggested by phuctor. 1622705;1488901325;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/index.html << handy table of lulz , for log readers. 1622706;1488901376;asciilifeform;also apparently mircea_popescu was right about the staffing problems, https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_23134361.html 1622707;1488901398;asciilifeform;'gender commits' 1622708;1488901418;*;mircea_popescu gets lucky and is right on occasions! 1622709;1488901518;asciilifeform;CandyMountain_v1.0/bin/unclassified/centos/candymountain-centos-64 << lel 1622710;1488901713;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_14587860.html << the very same huaweis 1622711;1488901716;asciilifeform;from phuctor. 1622712;1488901719;asciilifeform;lulzy 1622713;1488901750;mircea_popescu;i suppose the fellow who was looking to be useful could write a phuctor - confirmed - by - wikileaks piece for qntra. 1622714;1488901794;asciilifeform;anybody who wants a copy of the 'implants' wikilicks censored, just gotta log into some of the phuctored boxen. 1622715;1488901859;mircea_popescu;the fundamental problem being that it's way the fuck easier to spend day clicking through lolpics and "voting" on whatever retarded 2.0 site than reading the logs ; which then down the road means that one can'd do jack shit that's useful because drooled in class instead of paying attention. and so it goes, the gap between man and cow ever deepens. 1622716;1488901864;Framedragger;vim tips (https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_3375350.html) and unit test guidelines (SECRET//NOFORN!!!1) https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_11629048.html 1622717;1488901869;mircea_popescu;"oh i had some other things to do." 1622718;1488901877;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_14588809.html << 'how nsa fucked' 1622719;1488901881;mircea_popescu;i'm sure you did, especially given that there totally even are other things to do irl. like... what ? 1622720;1488901910;mircea_popescu;Framedragger they have a point, indians don't do unit tests. 1622721;1488903095;BingoBoingo;Who wants the honor of writing of Wikileaks Phuctor gloating for Qntra? 1622722;1488903892;*;Framedragger commits to writing at least one article in june (or maybe even before) #preplanninglikeachump 1622723;1488903906;*;shinohai is busy with whoreticulture but may have time later if no one else steps up .... 1622724;1488904240;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_14588652.html << more in re mircea_popescu's psychiatric observations 1622725;1488904285;Framedragger;some kind of boys club with too much time on their hands lol. 1622726;1488904557;BingoBoingo;If no one else writes /me will, but mostly offering mircea_popescu and asciilifeform, S.NSA partners well earned "dibs" if they want them 1622727;1488904836;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-07#1622669 <<< folks wondering how the "wallet split" was going 1622728;1488904836;a111;Logged on 2017-03-07 14:25 mircea_popescu: davout this links into which part of the conversation ? 1622729;1488904987;mircea_popescu;seems somewhat solipsistic 1622730;1488905046;asciilifeform;'Topic 3: BadUSB' << lel 1622731;1488905079;davout;mircea_popescu: howso ? 1622732;1488905205;mircea_popescu;"what part of the conversation this links to ?" "no, just stuff going on in my head" "seems like stuff going on in your head" "how so" 1622733;1488905251;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615802 1622734;1488905251;a111;Logged on 2017-02-19 22:41 mod6: i haven't heard on davout's progress recently. 1622735;1488905258;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615799 1622736;1488905258;a111;Logged on 2017-02-19 22:40 mircea_popescu: curious how davout 's work on splitting function is coming along btw 1622737;1488905261;*;davout is confused. 1622738;1488905344;mircea_popescu;well, so how is it coming along ? 1622739;1488905416;davout;back at square one, did some reading to get started on implementing what i had in mind (full scan of the UTXO upon request for UTXOs relevant to addresses) 1622740;1488905448;asciilifeform;1 more lul: 1622741;1488905449;asciilifeform;'(S//NF) All tools must utilize OS provided cryptographically secure sources of entropy (e.g., /dev/random on *nix, Microsoft CryptoAPI, etc) and should be a source compliant with NIST SP 800- 90. If a non-800-90 mechanism is used, the output from the source of entropy must be hashed with SHA-256 prior to use. Deviations from this must be justified and accepted by the OCRB.' -- 'Network Operations Division Cryptographic Requirements' 1622742;1488905450;mircea_popescu;did what you have in mind come from a discussion here at any point ? 1622743;1488905454;davout;found out that i in fact hallucinated the existence of this index, which may or may not have been added later on to prb, but was absent from trb 1622744;1488905476;davout;yeah, i remember talking about it here 1622745;1488905483;mircea_popescu;can link ? 1622746;1488905520;davout;http://fr.anco.is/2017/removing-the-wallet-from-trb-first-thoughts 1622747;1488905530;mircea_popescu;seems kinda solipsistic. 1622748;1488905542;mircea_popescu;"how so" "because you didn't link to the conversation here, you linked to your own thingee" 1622749;1488905547;mircea_popescu;"i am confused" "evidently" 1622750;1488905562;*;mircea_popescu saving the next 14:25 - 13:55 interval of this convo. 1622751;1488905665;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608204 1622752;1488905665;a111;Logged on 2017-01-27 19:00 davout: thestringpuller: UTXO set is ~2gb tops, indexing might be nice but necessary to scan for UTXOs that match a given set of addresses, also the wallet part can cache them if that particular wallet is the only one able to actually spend those UTXIs 1622753;1488905681;*;mircea_popescu off to re-read that thing 1622754;1488905728;asciilifeform;davout: the '~2gb tops' may (or may not) be true currently, but it is a fundamentally unbounded quantity. as discussed in 2 very recent threads with mircea_popescu re 'proton decay' and ultimate lifespan of bitcoin 1622755;1488905757;davout;asciilifeform: yeah, you did mention it also during that thread 1622756;1488905759;mircea_popescu;i also recall a thread re how to do this with maybe mimi or else deedbot, which i don't think is that one 1622757;1488905772;asciilifeform;davout: likewise i have nfi why wallet split requires indexing ~all~ unspents. just index the ones the user specifies 1622758;1488905833;mircea_popescu;how will the user specify them 1622759;1488905851;davout;asciilifeform: the idea was that the internet facing piece shouldn't have this kind of information 1622760;1488905857;mircea_popescu;(but yes, this was broadly the idea there, index by arbitrary-address-list) 1622761;1488905872;asciilifeform;davout: aha, you do it on an in-house 'hot' node 1622762;1488905887;asciilifeform;(at some point you gotta touch the net, if you want to broadcast tx, or learn that you've been paid) 1622763;1488905930;davout;well, obviously, but there's no particular reason your signed tx has to go out through ~your~ node 1622764;1488905940;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595779 << ah there it was. 1622765;1488905940;a111;Logged on 2017-01-03 20:42 mircea_popescu: this scheme among other things cheaply allows the "add arbitrary new address to wallet", just have utility that (separately) processes B.B and produces new set of B.T. 1622766;1488906000;mircea_popescu;davout so the competing idea, other than "maintain uxto unspent index", was "maintain index of txn involving specified list of addresses" 1622767;1488906025;davout;the existing wallet already does that 1622768;1488906028;mircea_popescu;that's the bit i was looking for. 1622769;1488906034;mircea_popescu;ok, so then what's teh problem ? 1622770;1488906110;davout;1. the principle of the thing where the wallet is coupled to the node and chain storage 1622771;1488906139;mircea_popescu;i thought that was adequately resolved through layering. 1622772;1488906147;davout;2. the way the existing trb wallet currently works, mainly the automatic utxo selection 1622773;1488906148;mircea_popescu;didja ever discuss the unsuitability of that ? 1622774;1488906164;davout;of the coupling? 1622775;1488906168;mircea_popescu;yes. 1622776;1488906184;mircea_popescu;i also dun get 2. how's the fact you already have the index you need related to the fact prb fucks up output selection ? 1622777;1488906212;davout;you mean trb? 1622778;1488906221;mircea_popescu;trb too, for now, i guess. 1622779;1488906224;davout;it's not really related 1622780;1488906236;mircea_popescu;well then why's it there. 1622781;1488906241;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/84DEA074B5B7F0A858E8B3AE0A0E6C1EEF4E40E2835FB94585FA727B344168FD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1508...2273 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.2.63 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.2.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE HE) 1622782;1488906241;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/84DEA074B5B7F0A858E8B3AE0A0E6C1EEF4E40E2835FB94585FA727B344168FD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1720...7347 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.2.63 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.2.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE HE) 1622783;1488906257;davout;has the index, should ask user to select outputs, not automagically generate transaction 1622784;1488906266;mircea_popescu;absolutely. 1622785;1488906269;davout;s/outputs/inputs/ 1622786;1488906273;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1622787;1488906344;davout;so basically i thought it would be quite easy to cleanly decouple the wallet from the node, but i'm now stuck with the realization that for now the most workable option will simply be to make small improvements here and there 1622788;1488906367;mircea_popescu;well, if you're not willing the read the jan 3rd discussion, i guess. 1622789;1488906383;davout;yeah, i will. 1622790;1488906425;davout;i did read actually, but seems it didn't really stick 1622791;1488906451;mircea_popescu;lol ok. anyway, the issue is that you seemed diverged, ie conversation is there, you're doing something else with no real discussion of why / what's wrong with it / etc. 1622792;1488906858;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595788 <<< hah, true 1622793;1488906858;a111;Logged on 2017-01-03 20:51 davout: hrm, i'll have to re-read 1622794;1488906866;mircea_popescu;lel 1622795;1488906911;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_4849711.html << lel they have in-house irc 1622796;1488906916;asciilifeform;almost like people 1622797;1488906924;mircea_popescu;do you know since when ? 1622798;1488906930;asciilifeform;(rather than 'slack', aol, etc.) 1622799;1488906940;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dunno, prolly since 1985 or wat 1622800;1488906948;mircea_popescu;2013ish actually afaik. 1622801;1488907132;davout;mircea_popescu: i agree that the description made in the convo you linked is a very desirable target architecture 1622802;1488907146;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_46628880.html << 31117w4r3z 1622803;1488907167;mircea_popescu;davout dja see a problem with it ? 1622804;1488907171;davout;as far as the wallet is concerned it's pretty much "when new address is added, rescan blockchain, have relevant txes in specific collection" 1622805;1488907179;mircea_popescu;pretty much 1622806;1488907187;davout;i don't see any fundamental problem with it 1622807;1488907194;mircea_popescu;i don't see the user has a leg to stand on, "i'm not sure which my addresses are". if you add some - there's a (minor) penalty. 1622808;1488907206;mircea_popescu;well ok so then you can just make it. 1622809;1488907211;mircea_popescu;maybe fundamental problem appears. 1622810;1488907251;davout;in essence, that's already what trb does 1622811;1488907256;mircea_popescu;keeping a pile of ALL utxos, as the alternative, is not very good, because you end up storing a bunch of (potentially toxic) crap 1622812;1488907285;davout;i thought trb was keeping them in ram already 1622813;1488907294;mircea_popescu;node-trb. 1622814;1488907303;mircea_popescu;this'd be wallet-trb. 1622815;1488907325;davout;which allowed any existing node to trivially serve any arbitrary wallet, at the cost of a 2gb memory scan for unspent outs 1622816;1488907341;mircea_popescu;well yes but the idea was to split. 1622817;1488907390;davout;it would have allowed some level of split, but anyway, this particular idea is dead since trb doesn't have this in-memory data structure 1622818;1488907444;davout;so now, re your description, i'm not sure what a good start would be, because cutting it the way you described sounds like a mega-project that encompasses more than the mere wallet 1622819;1488907486;mircea_popescu;how so ? 1622820;1488907619;davout;well, as i understand it the end result is a different set of binaries that talk together through a $to-be-defined queue mechanism 1622821;1488907642;davout;and even if single binary, still sounds like a large architectural rewrite 1622822;1488907646;mircea_popescu;you can just take stock trb, operate on it, and place it so it only connects to operator-specified trb nodes. 1622823;1488907666;mircea_popescu;then you can take stock trb, operate on it, and so people interested can pick both version, have internal-external couple. 1622824;1488907691;mircea_popescu;conceivably can use current trb as your genesis for this. 1622825;1488907695;davout;yeah, take a few trbs and cut different parts from each basically 1622826;1488907700;mircea_popescu;yep 1622827;1488907709;davout;design a way for them to talk together 1622828;1488907711;mircea_popescu;then also conceivably the changes will be backported into trb main once well tested 1622829;1488907714;mircea_popescu;and so there you go 1622830;1488907721;mircea_popescu;well no, let them talk to each other as they do now exactly. 1622831;1488907756;mircea_popescu;you don't have to invent a new protocol. 1622832;1488907773;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-07#1622815 << davout why would you need to store all of these?! just fire them, through the diode, at the wallet box that is actually computing addr balances , 1 at a time 1622833;1488907773;a111;Logged on 2017-03-07 17:22 davout: which allowed any existing node to trivially serve any arbitrary wallet, at the cost of a 2gb memory scan for unspent outs 1622834;1488907791;mircea_popescu;eh trhat';s a dead branch, let it be. 1622835;1488907794;asciilifeform;aite 1622836;1488907807;*;asciilifeform still eating thread 1622837;1488907849;mircea_popescu;this has been a honest-to-god real-time davout node emerging in march going "so guyse... chatlog-block-419333 is highest rite ?" and resyncs ensued. 1622838;1488907858;mircea_popescu;bitcoin is like the paradigm of thought. 1622839;1488907907;asciilifeform;'AVG will sometimes heuristically identify Raptor/Melomy/Ferret trojans as, well, Trojans (duh). However, in many cases this heuristic detection can be avoided by renaming the .exe to a common installer name such as setup.exe. There may be other names that can be used – Windows itself recognizes a few "installer" exe names and slaps the little shield icon on there by default and also does that weird "this program didn't install c 1622840;1488907907;asciilifeform;orrectly" popup, which can be elminated with some manifest-fu.' 1622841;1488907918;asciilifeform;gold. 1622842;1488907951;mircea_popescu;sounds about the level. 1622843;1488907968;mircea_popescu;you understand ? backfeed fucking computing, "if i do this this happens so you press thios button" sorta excel-dev. 1622844;1488907992;davout;this split really doesn't sound that simple to me 1622845;1488908007;mircea_popescu;davout well it's certainly not trivial, no. 1622846;1488908033;mircea_popescu;i suspect it's the simplest-possible, which still doesn't promise it's simpler than any arbitrary level. 1622847;1488908052;davout;see, i don't see how it could be done without designing another way for nodes to communicate in another way than the currently existing protocol 1622848;1488908056;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: so far reads like data dump from any large american software co. plenty of 'excel monkey' material, a veeery small bit of classy. 1622849;1488908082;mircea_popescu;davout why not ? 1622850;1488908095;trinque;davout: there is also eatblock 1622851;1488908098;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform just about. and large in the sense of alcatel not in the sense of alphabet, at that. 1622852;1488908105;trinque;wallet node could be munching with that hole 1622853;1488908114;davout;for example, how does the wallet perform a reindex, without storing the chain itself 1622854;1488908123;mircea_popescu;davout wallet doesn't. 1622855;1488908157;mircea_popescu;meh. wallet doesn't NOT store the chain. it's just stock trb. 1622856;1488908196;mircea_popescu;it doesn't store ~the mempool~ is all. 1622857;1488908228;asciilifeform;i know of no reason why wallet would ever want to ~receive~ mempool tx 1622858;1488908228;mircea_popescu;if net-trb decides to engage in a reorg, it will eventually induce one in all the wallet-trbs connected to it. 1622859;1488908234;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform quite. 1622860;1488908267;trinque;why would it send either? crap a signed tx and operator feeds it to network node 1622861;1488908270;asciilifeform;and trinque has it : i've put up nodes that communicate outside the house ~only~ via eatblock 1622862;1488908272;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform incidentally your ssh thing may well have been a major step forward for this split. 1622863;1488908272;asciilifeform;worx great. 1622864;1488908275;trinque;aha 1622865;1488908275;mircea_popescu;because now - they can ssh connect! 1622866;1488908293;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that is one of the most obvious uses, aha 1622867;1488908296;mircea_popescu;aha. 1622868;1488908300;davout;asciilifeform: knowing about incoming txes before they've confirmed? 1622869;1488908316;trinque;why does that help anything? 1622870;1488908324;asciilifeform;davout: ~nobody gives half a shit about unconfirmed tx he didn't himself make 1622871;1488908336;trinque;isn't in a block; may *never* be in a block 1622872;1488908341;asciilifeform;aha 1622873;1488908343;mircea_popescu;i concur. "unconfirmed tx" is improperly thought of as a tx. 1622874;1488908349;davout;asciilifeform: mebbe operator wants to check his tx propagated? 1622875;1488908350;trinque;and if I wanted that I'd want to do it as a "mempool explorer" tool 1622876;1488908356;trinque;^ 1622877;1488908359;mircea_popescu;davout operator sshs into network node. 1622878;1488908362;asciilifeform;davout: you wouldn't do this from wallet box 1622879;1488908386;mircea_popescu;and yes, better money just ask mimi for instance. 1622880;1488908393;mircea_popescu;(ie, someone else.) 1622881;1488908396;davout;i really don't feel strongly about this, just thinking out loud 1622882;1488908404;davout;(this unconfirmed tx thing) 1622883;1488908408;mircea_popescu;that's why the forum's here for. 1622884;1488908413;mircea_popescu;well, that and not being read. 1622885;1488908696;asciilifeform;in other lulz, nsa has internal clone of ida, 'ghidra' 1622886;1488908698;asciilifeform;java turd. 1622887;1488908725;asciilifeform;and it is not even first-revealed in today's dump, has figured in... help-wanted ads, for eons. 1622888;1488908744;mircea_popescu;does it even work ? 1622889;1488908750;asciilifeform;now how would i know. 1622890;1488908782;asciilifeform;in-house mega-seekrit javaturd. 1622891;1488908806;asciilifeform;( ads, e.g., https://www.techexpousa.com/jobdetails.cfm/450840/Software-Engineer ) 1622892;1488908832;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1622893;1488909339;asciilifeform;lel, ipnoje uses 'tinyscheme' internally. 1622894;1488909366;asciilifeform;'Apple seems to have taken version 1.38 of the Tiny Scheme project (available online, google it or check workshop output) and modified it a little. Most modifications are fixes for the most obvious bugs in the program: changing sprintf to snprintf and adding some more size checks but they have not fixed everything. In fact, they haven't even bothered keeping up with the Tiny Scheme project, which is now on version 1.41. Apple have al 1622895;1488909366;asciilifeform;so added a couple of new members and changed some sizes in the struct scheme.These are fairly trivial to reverse but comparing each function in a disassembler with the Tiny Scheme source version. Apple uses Tiny Scheme to create a vector of sandbox rules that it then converts to a compiled sandbox profile....' 1622896;1488909466;mircea_popescu;lel 1622897;1488909558;asciilifeform;( from the docs of the active ios9+ browser driveby-with-arbitrary-payload. which hopefully surprises nobody ) 1622898;1488909583;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/wikileaks-hands-elected-trump-us-government-weapon-to-gut-careerist-deep-state-us-government/ << Qntra - Wikileaks Hands Elected Trump US Government Weapon To Gut Careerist 'Deep State' US Government 1622899;1488909631;asciilifeform;( more re same, https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_13205587.html ) 1622900;1488909765;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: neato 1622901;1488909971;BingoBoingo;ty asciilifeform, figured I'd take big picture leaving opportunity for experts to fill in mined lulz with further submissions 1622902;1488910149;asciilifeform;'VOIP - Huawei VOIP Collection' << direct phuctor lel 1622903;1488910347;asciilifeform;various cisco rootkits, also, but these i regard as a snore 1622904;1488910444;asciilifeform;buncha konsoomer junk also (linksys et al) 1622905;1488910517;Framedragger;isn't internet backbone basically juniper + cisco still? :( 1622906;1488910709;asciilifeform;Framedragger: don't forget huawei. 1622907;1488910730;asciilifeform;which is why you'll often find trb-related tcp pipes randomly RST'd, and the like. 1622908;1488910756;Framedragger;i thought huawei only made consumer shit? (not that that's reassuring...) 1622909;1488910764;asciilifeform;nope 1622910;1488910777;Framedragger;i see - i'm behind on the internet of shit it seems 1622911;1488911164;asciilifeform;'Development of a tool to burst out a binary using udp packets with forward error correction at 100MB/s' << somebody reads the l0gz 1622912;1488911212;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_5341225.html << him, apparently 1622913;1488911249;asciilifeform;'Worked as head of Software Engineering at Mediatech Inc. from 2004-2006' << who will be the first to name this illustrious fella. 1622914;1488911309;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_18382968.html << winblowz code-signing bypass, courtesy of microshit 1622915;1488911412;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_3375460.html << usbdrive-shaped hardware raper for crapple desktops 1622916;1488911553;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_14588150.html << crapple firmware infector 1622917;1488911581;trinque;no lets get rid of openfirmware; it doesn't x, y, and ... 1622918;1488911598;trinque;moar ARM and EFI 1622919;1488911712;trinque;it may sadden those that don't yet know that open firmware was a dead simple forth nugget. i.e. in the sense that apple for a brief time meant dead simple. 1622920;1488911729;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_36405256.html << re the 'internal gossipd', at the time of the writing appears to be entirely hypothetical 1622921;1488911762;asciilifeform;trinque: the move to intel, killed it, intel iron wants megatonne of initialization crapolade 1622922;1488911771;trinque;aha 1622923;1488911779;asciilifeform;(and, bonus: builds only on winblowz, heavy on -- yes -- masm) 1622924;1488911873;asciilifeform;lel, i was wrong re their 'gossipd', it was written, by unknown commercial contractor: https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/files/Fluxwire_manual-3.5.0.pdf << docs. 1622925;1488911896;asciilifeform;pretty heavy. 1622926;1488912014;asciilifeform;and oh hey, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-02#1222312 <<<>>> https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_2621481.html 1622927;1488912014;a111;Logged on 2015-08-02 20:02 mircea_popescu: siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do. 1622928;1488912020;asciilifeform;^ siemens voip gear, pwned 1622929;1488912120;asciilifeform;aaaand https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_9535850.html << hald (dbus component, poetteringism) local root. 1622930;1488912127;asciilifeform;(0 details, but stated to exist.) 1622931;1488912297;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_1179686.html << lulzy, pocket gadget for theft of seeekrits from... floppies 1622932;1488912319;asciilifeform;'...initial plan for concealment host is as a day planner.' 1622933;1488912323;asciilifeform;'hey lemme borrow this' 1622934;1488912340;*;asciilifeform can almost picture this scene 1622935;1488912421;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_22642800.html << plunder of lulz from the italian 'hackteam' dump of '15 1622936;1488912556;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_9535630.html << their version of mircea_popescu's 'uci'. 1622937;1488912602;mircea_popescu;i see you're well entertained. 1622938;1488912613;asciilifeform;actually nearing the bottom of this barrel 1622939;1488912739;asciilifeform;'RainMaker v1.0 is a survey and file collection tool built for a FINO QRC operation. IOC/FINO is looking to expand asset-assisted operations. The intended CONOPS involves using an asset to gain access to a target network. The asset has the ability to plug in a personal thumbdrive to the network. In this scenario, the asset will have "downloaded" the portable version of VLC player (2.1.5) and will listen to music during work hours. W 1622940;1488912739;asciilifeform;hile she is listening to music, the tool will execute the survey and a prioritized file collection. All collected data will be stored to the root of the removable media it is executing from. When the asset next meets with the case officer, the thumbdrive is retrieved and the collection is processed. ' 1622941;1488912744;asciilifeform;srsly? 1622942;1488912785;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_4849785.html >> 'I strongly suggest that you name your missing vector for DanceFloor "Twerk". ' 1622943;1488912889;mircea_popescu;note the fist fucking ever appropriate use of "she" 1622944;1488912999;asciilifeform;loox like they censored the ~only ~useful bits, e.g. the active av holes. 1622945;1488913003;asciilifeform;largely sums to snoar. 1622946;1488913021;*;asciilifeform ate the whole thing. 1622947;1488913091;mircea_popescu;anyway. maybe new elbrus brings ofw back. 1622948;1488913336;asciilifeform;https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/files/DevelopersGuide.pdf << for aficionados strictly -- details of implant protocol, where gibblets are disguised as tcp replay packets. apparently standardized across this particular directorate. 1622949;1488913361;asciilifeform;'Hive beacons were designed to work with the Blot proxy (developed by Xetron). Blot looks for a tool ID embedded in the HELLO packet of an SSL session initiation. If the ID is found, then it forwards the packet to the tool-handler, otherwise it is sent to the cover server. The tool ID is embedded in the HELLO packet using the embedData function defined in …/polarssl/library/loki_utils.c. The SSL data structure defined in …/polars 1622950;1488913361;asciilifeform;sl/include/polarssl/ssl.h is extended to include the session _checksum, tool_id, use_custom, and xor_key. The data contained within this packet is constant with the exception of a time stamp taken from the real-time clock and a few bytes of random data. A CRC checksum is computed from the entire packet and is included with the HELLO packet. When Blot receives this packet, it checks the CRC searches a list of previously seen packets f 1622951;1488913362;asciilifeform;or any matches. If a match is found the packet is assumed to be a TCP replay and is dropped.' 1622952;1488913396;asciilifeform;document also of slight interest in re discussion of ntp, and issues of time synchronization in general. apparently unsolved problem for usg just as well as for victims. 1622953;1488913438;trinque;unsolved problem for reality too 1622954;1488913441;asciilifeform;'IOC/ECG's Advanced Forensic Division (AFD) performed an analysis of Hive version 2.5 network communications to assess its likelihood of detection.The results of this analysis are found in document AFD-2012-0973-2. In summary, AFD was able to create signatures for DNS, ICMP, and TFTP triggers; found that the TCP and UDP triggers did not adhere to their respective protocol standards; and further found that the TCP and UDP triggers eac 1622955;1488913441;asciilifeform;h had consistent packet sizes.' 1622956;1488913454;asciilifeform;^ apparently they use own auditor directorate for beta testing, and consistently fail 1622957;1488913468;asciilifeform;this rounds out today's lulzfest, i think. 1622958;1488913694;asciilifeform;and srsly, 0 directly bitcoin-related anything. in motherfucking 2015-16. asciilifeform is disappoint. 1622959;1488913717;asciilifeform;~that~ compartment, apparently, leakproof. 1622960;1488913727;asciilifeform;( just as crypto directorate is ) 1622961;1488913728;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: To be fair about lack of Bitcoin, this is CIA rapidly reinventing own "NSA" 1622962;1488913772;BingoBoingo;Stuck on low hanging fruit 1622963;1488913775;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: we did have a thread back in... 2013? re 'they will copy su approach and make 2-in-a-box kgb/gru duet' 1622964;1488913788;BingoBoingo;AHA 1622965;1488914224;asciilifeform;not even the directorate which runs the gavins, the hearns, ever seems to leak so much as a drop. 1622966;1488914258;BingoBoingo;Well, draining has just begun. Build windmill and pump! 1622967;1488914287;asciilifeform;thus far i suspect that 'leakage' is roughly proportional to a directorate's population of folx who know what is 'twerk' 1622968;1488914305;asciilifeform;and who embed anime gif into their project docs (several examples in the linked dump) 1622969;1488914342;asciilifeform;but i'll be the first to admit that this heuristic is very much a 'blind man and the elephant'. 1622970;1488914344;BingoBoingo;And thus pumping needs to begin. Change pressure on the container and see what fails 1622971;1488915169;ben_vulpes;in other water-related engineering projects, here's something that is very definitely not a lock: http://gcaptain.com/worlds-first-ship-tunnel-to-bypass-dangerous-seas-in-norway/ 1622972;1488915862;trinque;https://1917.rt.com/ << russian revolution member-berries 1622973;1488916716;shinohai;https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/9938 <<< locks-free checking 1622974;1488916861;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-05#1008756 << this is indeed still the case 1622975;1488916861;a111;Logged on 2015-02-05 18:01 punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-02-2015#1008336 << this is now stuck at 124275 1622976;1488916873;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-05#1008972 << mod6, is that why this patch did not make it in? 1622977;1488916873;a111;Logged on 2015-02-05 19:11 mod6: <+punkman> running a node with this line removed: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0939 . works so far << check out this patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html 1622978;1488916884;trinque;would've been nice if punkman studied this when he first saw it. 1622979;1488916900;asciilifeform;shinohai: no mention of the db, the actual bottleneck.. 1622980;1488916925;asciilifeform;( incidentally, trb doesn't validate scripts in blocks. at. all. ) 1622981;1488916942;*;trinque has such a checkpoints-cauterized node wedged at that very block, will in fact study 1622982;1488916968;trinque;124276 happens to be a 1 txn block btw 1622983;1488917056;asciilifeform;trinque: first q to ask in a wedge: 'has it SEEN the block?' 1622984;1488917096;asciilifeform;( recall, in mircea_popescu's recent case, answer was the -- very usual -- 'nope' ) 1622985;1488917165;trinque;this guy's running with -connect to deedbot.org node 1622986;1488917179;trinque;sec and I'll grab some logs 1622987;1488917241;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha. the nsa itself long knew it is both a) deeply ineffectual and b) extremely loud. which is why now and again i say something to the effect of "wtf straw must one have in head to work for those dorks, move on already." 1622988;1488917284;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> not even the directorate which runs the gavins, the hearns, ever seems to leak so much as a drop. << the reason is that utterly nobody gives a shit. 1622989;1488917312;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and somebody gives a shit re junk routers etc? 1622990;1488917317;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1622991;1488917327;mircea_popescu;don't ask me to explain what entertains teh public. 1622992;1488917365;asciilifeform;i suspect that , e.g., gavin's pay stubs, would entertain plenty. 1622993;1488917390;mircea_popescu;they're not that substantial. 1622994;1488917396;trinque;not nearly so much as "omg caught pirate robertz" or "pedo dark web lair" 1622995;1488917401;asciilifeform;no, but the fact-of. 1622996;1488917403;trinque;makes great tweets 1622997;1488917406;mircea_popescu;nobody working for idiot empire makes much. this is a recurrent fantasy of yours, but not more. 1622998;1488917447;asciilifeform;gotta divide by amt of honestwork, mircea_popescu 1622999;1488917458;asciilifeform;megabux / ~0 is pretty sum 1623000;1488917480;mircea_popescu;no ; because if a girl who does nothing but fucks up and sucks my cock makes a grand, that grand does not get divided by 0.000000epsilon to result in TWENTY BRILLIONS!!1 1623001;1488917499;asciilifeform;in asciilifeform's mental calculus, it sure does 1623002;1488917519;mircea_popescu;the only difference between slavegirl in my household and usg employee is that a) i whip mine and b) after a while they are sensibly better at everything. the usg drones don't get whipped and don't improve. 1623003;1488917548;asciilifeform;commuting to and sitting in butugychag is a mega-difference 1623004;1488917551;mircea_popescu;but otherwise, it's the same. i sent a bunch of girls on a bunch of missions this month, with various wads of cash. 1623005;1488917564;mircea_popescu;except for the part where IT IS MY CASH, they could just as well have been "government employees" 1623006;1488917586;mircea_popescu;who you know, "made salaries". 1623007;1488917613;trinque;couldn't find the log, but the other day mircea_popescu discussed that some pedo case's dismissal had very much to do with that the guy refused to LARP with them re: their importance. 1623008;1488917673;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's rather like to say that fucking same gurl vs fucking hole in a muddy tree trunk, 'is the same' 1623009;1488917674;trinque;no one can seriously claim the guy wearing steampunk goggles and going to conferences isn't LARPing in the grand american tradition of pretense to existing 1623010;1488917704;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform explain 1623011;1488917714;mircea_popescu;trinque no but it's exactly it, an exercise in serving the phantasmagorical. 1623012;1488917745;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2009/inchipuiti-va/ << very related, sadly in romanian. 1623013;1488917758;mircea_popescu;(gedankenexperiment, what would happen if you could produce any item by thinking about it.) 1623014;1488917790;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sweeping a floor for beloved comendante hasta y por la siempre, as gurl does, is quite different from sweeping floor for salary from hitler. even if same broom and same floor somehow. 1623015;1488917805;mircea_popescu;well yes, certainly. 1623016;1488917809;mircea_popescu;but not ~economically~ different. 1623017;1488917821;trinque;the stay-puffed marshmallow man, elementarily 1623018;1488917847;trinque;i.e. any manner of destructive nonsense, or cancer of the imagination 1623019;1488917849;asciilifeform;trinque: wassat? 1623020;1488917860;mircea_popescu;yea trinque the who ? 1623021;1488917878;trinque;first ghostbusters, the david bowie lesbian god tells them to choose teh form of their destroyer 1623022;1488917895;trinque;first thing that popped into what's his name 80s hack's head was the marshmallow man 1623023;1488917901;mircea_popescu;lol ok 1623024;1488917915;*;mircea_popescu wanders back to his zuleika rewrite that he's been labouring on since weekend. 1623025;1488917935;mircea_popescu;expect an 80kword novel to be dropped on your heads later this week dear all. 1623026;1488918064;asciilifeform;briefly upstack: as i once described, many years ago asciilifeform actually tried to sign up for nsa! was , unsurprisingly, turned down ( you get a ream of paper even if turned down! ) 1623027;1488918094;asciilifeform;and , years later, ended up briefly labouring in a butugychag full of ex-nsa folx, who confirmed, they dun like ethnic untermenschen there 1623028;1488918119;asciilifeform;they suure luvv anime bois tho. apparently. 1623029;1488918129;asciilifeform;or maybe this is only at cia. 1623030;1488918212;asciilifeform;the funny bit is, that was when i formed picture of nsa as 'serious org' 1623031;1488918249;trinque;I guess it wouldn't be the only "serious" gay men's club on earth. 1623032;1488918249;asciilifeform;'they're exempt from equalism!11 , think!' 1623033;1488918302;asciilifeform;dunno, per my informant there were gurls there, 1623034;1488918309;asciilifeform;fuckable, even 1623035;1488918538;*;trinque cannot connect those inputs to "luvv anime bois" 1623036;1488918829;asciilifeform;conflicting data re seekrit heathen pits, noose at 11 1623037;1488918881;mircea_popescu;i don't see why it's such a big deal, i included all sorts of strange in the logs, what of it ? 1623038;1488919060;asciilifeform;in other strange, '4-year-old male white rhino who was slaughtered this week inside his enclosure at a zoo outside Paris. The rhino — discovered by his keeper at the Thoiry Zoological Park on Tuesday — now holds the ominous distinction of likely being the first rhino to be killed by poachers inside a zoo, experts said.' 1623039;1488923739;asciilifeform;!!up onlooker 1623040;1488923740;deedbot;onlooker voiced for 30 minutes. 1623041;1488926256;shinohai;Well onlooker certainly lives up to his handle. 1623042;1488926830;asciilifeform;shinohai: i still dun get why cia stooge needs a handle. can read the l0gz on www, like anybody 1623043;1488926973;shinohai;Maybe they get paid by # of connections 1623044;1488927017;trinque;somebody's boss's boss just orders that X must infiltrate and monitor, and yes sir right away sir. 1623045;1488927033;trinque;and so he does the most visibile thing such that boss sees him working, and he goes back to reading reddit. 1623046;1488927038;mircea_popescu;alternatively random guy clicked a link, hasn't even noticed the tab among the symphony of tabs on his ie. 1623047;1488927069;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he didn't show up under the default lamer nick (e.g., 'fromphuctor') so probably not this 1623048;1488927095;mircea_popescu;perhaps. who knows where the link is found by now. 1623049;1488927198;asciilifeform;and lol, infiltrate, sooo 2013!111 what'll he do, bore folx to death, like ninjashotgun 1623050;1488927217;asciilifeform;or the other d00d, which one was he, 1623051;1488927221;asciilifeform;decimation. 1623052;1488927264;asciilifeform;( the last time i mentioned him on the air -- he actually showed up! in pm! to whine re how cruelly he is libelled, how he was Never A Stooge, etc. snoar. ) 1623053;1488928184;mod6; <+trinque> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-05#1008972 << mod6, is that why this patch did not make it in? << i don't think it was because of any such wedge. i think we held off because it was proposed that there might have been a better way to handle that through configuration files. it's all in the logs if you look in around the time that email was sent; december of '14. 1623054;1488928184;a111;Logged on 2015-02-05 19:11 mod6: <+punkman> running a node with this line removed: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0939 . works so far << check out this patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html 1623055;1488928203;trinque;meanwhile found some discussion, yep 1623056;1488928218;trinque;and in fact, meanwhile found that it was my own build environment hauling in libressl on openbsd 1623057;1488928221;trinque;so no big deal 1623058;1488928248;asciilifeform;trinque: what was this in re 1623059;1488928267;trinque;stripping out of checkpoints. I'd done it here myself days ago before finding that you had already in 2016 1623060;1488928268;asciilifeform;snip of 'checkpoints' 1623061;1488928269;asciilifeform;ah 1623062;1488928271;trinque;*2015 1623063;1488928291;asciilifeform;i never cut the old ones out, but introduced flag 'verifyall' 1623064;1488928324;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu at the time said that the thing really oughta eat a programmable set of checkpoint 1623065;1488928347;asciilifeform;but imho we are very, very far away from the 'verifying chain takes too long' problem, for this to be a burning issue 1623066;1488928364;trinque;maybe; seems like a data structure that somebody would love to spooge malicious values into via some other (networking code) exploit 1623067;1488928417;asciilifeform;trinque: if you have remote-execution 0day in the thing, you have a problem. 1623068;1488928448;asciilifeform;plus/minus one useless routine, will make no difference, just like 7 bullet holes in head vs 8. 1623069;1488928483;asciilifeform;but recall, i started by asking for 'the book' and for it to be as thin as reasonably possible (but not thinner..) 1623070;1488928491;trinque;having a branch available to skip verification ~at all~ seems questionable. 1623071;1488928493;asciilifeform;so snip, snip the crapolade. 1623072;1488928524;trinque;indeed, I'm snipping and mapping for entirely that reason. 1623073;1488928531;asciilifeform;fwiw i run my boxes with verifyall. 1623074;1488928556;trinque;aha 1623075;1488928588;asciilifeform;btw trinque lemme know if you'd like a 'wire' on dulap. 1623076;1488928600;asciilifeform;( ideally you would also have one to ben_vulpes , et al , avoid 'stars' ) 1623077;1488928817;trinque;asciilifeform: need an ssh pubkey for it iirc? 1623078;1488928822;asciilifeform;aha 1623079;1488928832;trinque;k will generate shortly and send it to ya 1623080;1488928833;asciilifeform;gpggram. 1623081;1488928836;trinque;sure will 1623082;1488929485;asciilifeform;in other cia lulz, https://www.academic-signature.org 1623083;1488930207;asciilifeform;in yet other lulz, 'dwave' no longer gets to monopolize snake oil market, https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/51740.wss 1623084;1488931213;mircea_popescu;how fortunate are we, to live in the times of such great discoveries. 1623085;1488931307;trinque;and with cloud computing, nobody gets to inspect the snake oil milking machine. 1623086;1488931309;trinque;nb 1623087;1488932330;asciilifeform;in other very non-noose, cpp standard does not specify initialization order of static variables. 1623088;1488932354;asciilifeform;(specifically unlike ada, where you can explicitly specify what this is called, 'elaboration', procedures) 1623089;1488932386;asciilifeform;*specify this, which is called 1623090;1488937451;trinque;http://www.ebay.com/itm/Symbolics-MacIvory-model-3-workstation-in-an-Apple-Quadra-700-with-Mac-O-S-8-0-/112326565327?hash=item1a272f5dcf:g:LUsAAOSwWxNYseQZ 1623091;1488937469;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AFB7ADF63CF9C236A056A28E6E751A1031503D5BAC1020EEDC3350529CAB3E26 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...3923 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '222.168.55.50 (ssh-rsa key from 222.168.55.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN 22) 1623092;1488937469;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/AFB7ADF63CF9C236A056A28E6E751A1031503D5BAC1020EEDC3350529CAB3E26 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1501...3239 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '222.168.55.50 (ssh-rsa key from 222.168.55.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN 22) 1623093;1488937471;trinque;first time I've seen one of those for sale. 1623094;1488937485;*;trinque will not be buying, but might be interesting to any scrap hunters present. 1623095;1488939308;asciilifeform;trinque: pretty typical price 1623096;1488939328;asciilifeform;and it's dks selling, looks like 1623097;1488939365;asciilifeform;(though for some reason location is california, instead of virginia where he historically was found) 1623098;1488939397;asciilifeform;http://www.ebay.com/itm/Symbolics-XL1201-no-FPA-4-MW-memory-18-GB-SCSI-disk-19-in-monochrome-console-/112325366421?hash=item1a271d1295:g:g~4AAOSwXYtYsb-C << him, also, nao 1623099;1488939466;asciilifeform;i lost more or less all interest in the physical machines after i got hold of the emulator. 1623100;1488939493;asciilifeform;( which not only runs on x64, but offers some reversing, and without electron microscope, even ) 1623101;1488940196;asciilifeform;iirc phf has the xl1201. 1623102;1488940255;asciilifeform;btw speaking of ebay, for ~same price you can get working electron microscope, of recent make. 1623103;1488940293;asciilifeform;i would get it, if i had where to put. 1623104;1488940563;asciilifeform;!$ ssh 222.168.55.50 77.37.2.63 95.240.174.82 130.88.150.85 1623105;1488940563;scriba;ssh banner of 222.168.55.50 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1 1623106;1488940565;scriba;ssh banner of 77.37.2.63 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 1623107;1488940566;scriba;ssh banner of 95.240.174.82 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.6p1 Debian-5 1623108;1488940568;scriba;ssh banner of 130.88.150.85 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu7 1623109;1488940717;*;asciilifeform wonders if anybody had ever built bitcoin against debianized openssl... 1623110;1488940755;asciilifeform;!!up onlooker 1623111;1488940756;deedbot;onlooker voiced for 30 minutes. 1623112;1488940777;asciilifeform;i guess 'looker', not talker, huh. 1623113;1488940786;mircea_popescu;maybe it's alfbaiter 1623114;1488940807;asciilifeform;evidently 1623115;1488940924;asciilifeform;hm, now that i think of it, the question of 'against which openssl was it built' may be.. answerable. mircea_popescu : did satoshi ever distribute a binary ? 1623116;1488940928;asciilifeform;iirc there was such a thing 1623117;1488940966;mircea_popescu;early on, yeah. i've no copies though. 1623118;1488940980;asciilifeform;^ if anybody has copy... write in plox ^ 1623119;1488940996;asciilifeform;esp. of the winblowz client . 1623120;1488941124;asciilifeform;http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2009-January/014994.html << exe evaporated, naturally 1623121;1488941246;asciilifeform;http://www.zorinaq.com/pub/bitcoin-0.1.0.rar << purports to be mirror. 1623122;1488941548;asciilifeform;0.9.8h 28 May 2008. 1623123;1488941568;mircea_popescu;prolly more interesting 1623124;1488941573;mircea_popescu;i was gonna say, get the pre 1.0 ones 1623125;1488941582;asciilifeform;this seems to be the 1st public exe. 1623126;1488941597;asciilifeform;(my memory, apparently, was correct, he published a winturd along with 1st source) 1623127;1488941631;shinohai;asciilifeform: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/trb/original-bitcoin/ 1623128;1488941721;asciilifeform;shinohai: INTERESTINGLY the checksums do not match !! 1623129;1488941733;asciilifeform;sha512 of the exe i linked earlier : fa8f822c8f0d86f419ef94ffe80bdbfd4966169f4d3becec8b5cd4bf693ad11c1c8f91d3cfb74664cfc910a326f4bc799613847cf56aa12c3ff6124121626b6e 1623130;1488941740;asciilifeform;of shinohai's : 919504c2ed1fd687f26b8b91033466854fe295464ac281abd3d83456208922a60d2844edecd4e330d7b329c24c7772289e0d32620b6dc0b8bf772b36efae98bf 1623131;1488941764;asciilifeform;then again noshit 1623132;1488941774;asciilifeform;shinohai: yours is 'BitCoin v0.1.3 ALPHA' per the readme. 1623133;1488941805;asciilifeform;same openssl tho. 1623134;1488941836;shinohai;Came from a bitcointalk mirror long ago 1623135;1488943787;asciilifeform;it is interesting how much, imho, moar readable these are, than trb. 1623136;1488943883;mircea_popescu;they are ? 1623137;1488943918;asciilifeform;yea 1623138;1488944887;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1623139;1488944893;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1221.0, vol: 14695.82308481 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1208.399, vol: 7580.12544 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1214.3, vol: 44198.95268492 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1125.7281, vol: 10865.13950000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1208.92, vol: 4255.09536423 | Volume-weighted last average: 1202.8837954 1623140;1488945213;mircea_popescu;O NOES BITCOIN PRICE MALAISE 1623141;1488945346;trinque;!!up ser 1623142;1488945346;deedbot;ser voiced for 30 minutes. 1623143;1488945350;trinque;wb 1623144;1488945525;trinque;o.0 1623145;1488948446;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/77A9AAD03EADB9C5C54C893B5F439B1AAFB0E729454C9EE89C1857F7009D3272 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1487...5067 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '190.220.130.117 (ssh-rsa key from 190.220.130.117 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (ffylead.uncu.edu.ar. AR M) 1623146;1488948446;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/77A9AAD03EADB9C5C54C893B5F439B1AAFB0E729454C9EE89C1857F7009D3272 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1604...4269 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '190.220.130.117 (ssh-rsa key from 190.220.130.117 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (ffyl2.uncu.edu.ar. AR M) 1623147;1488948553;BingoBoingo;O NOES ARGENTINE RSA MALAISE! 1623148;1488950833;asciilifeform;lol is that the pili university?! 1623149;1488971295;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nah, mendoza. like a sort of kentucky. 1623150;1488971322;mircea_popescu;but yeah, they're all ~equally retarded. 1623151;1488973395;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623101 << yes, and since i just burned a bunch of cash on a vacation, i won't be bidding on any of these machines, but dks is selling an xl1201 and two macivories 1623152;1488973395;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 02:29 asciilifeform: iirc phf has the xl1201. 1623153;1488973543;phf;i think a half decent reason to get an xl1201 is to sacrifice an ivory and get die shots 1623154;1488973667;phf;oh he'll also be selling a macivory model 2 board, that you can put in a quadra yourself. (or use it for a die shot sacrifice...) 1623155;1488976348;mircea_popescu;what's the rents in india like ? 1623156;1488976352;mircea_popescu;or do you hotel 1623157;1488976371;mircea_popescu;phf ^ 1623158;1488982950;phf;cheap, and wot dependent. i can't figure out what the market forces are like, or possibly everything's really cheap, so there's no bottom. 1623159;1488982976;phf;i looked at places within 10 minute motorcycle ride from a tourist beach area 1623160;1488983013;phf;what they would call "studio" in u.s., i.e. a room with a kitchen area goes for about $1000/yr 1623161;1488983073;phf;looked at a mansion, where i lost count of rooms, has inner court yard and large forst area in the back, secluded, etc. advertised as $2000/mo, final price was $12000/yr (!!!) 1623162;1488983208;phf;an apartment 2 bedroom apartment in a muslim town (so main downside is a regular adhan) was offered for about $300/mo 1623163;1488983327;phf;this is all within 10 minute ride to the beach, 30 minute ride to the closest big city. not sure what the prices are like in the city, but i have a guy i can ask if you're interested 1623164;1488983552;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623154 << phf do you presently have with what to make die shot ? i do have a dead xl1201 cpu board here. 1623165;1488983552;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 11:47 phf: oh he'll also be selling a macivory model 2 board, that you can put in a quadra yourself. (or use it for a die shot sacrifice...) 1623166;1488983720;phf;i did a bed&breakfast which is my preferred approach, the room was baseline 2200rs/night, for 35 days, with 20% discount, worked out to about $950 1623167;1488983808;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623161 << this sounds pretty neat. 1623168;1488983808;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 14:24 phf: looked at a mansion, where i lost count of rooms, has inner court yard and large forst area in the back, secluded, etc. advertised as $2000/mo, final price was $12000/yr (!!!) 1623169;1488983819;asciilifeform;but i gotta wonder what the total cost of 'living like white man' might be there. 1623170;1488983869;phf;right, mansion comes with fans, but not AC/central air; mosquito nets on beds; internet "work it out yourself"; etc. 1623171;1488983925;asciilifeform;( can you get, say, roquefort ? or, more interestingly, what'll it cost to avoid http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-19#515574 funnel. ) 1623172;1488983925;a111;Logged on 2014-02-19 06:21 mircea_popescu: an old american moves to a thai village. 1623173;1488984039;phf;i don't think you can pay with money for the later 1623174;1488984078;asciilifeform;i'd imagine -- not. 1623175;1488984092;asciilifeform;which is why asciilifeform will probably not be buying the mansion next to phf's in india.. 1623176;1488984148;phf;roquefort is unobtanium. in fact there's a christian monastery that makes cheese somewhere in the north, european style. they make bank selling that stuff to hotels, etc. i was trying to sell some priests on the idea, but by the time i remember we were both utterly drunk, and the conversation devolved into calls for bloody revolution and such 1623177;1488984166;asciilifeform;lelz 1623178;1488984249;asciilifeform;i'll admit, always wanted to live in india; 1623179;1488984256;asciilifeform;--- but as a british d00d in 1890s!! 1623180;1488984298;phf;re "living like white man" http://www.technopark.org 1623181;1488984327;asciilifeform;lol, spam center ? 1623182;1488984341;phf;place was about 40 minute motorcycle ride away and is basically "modern office" for indian outsourcing 1623183;1488984363;phf;has all the usual suspects on site, oracle, microsoft, etc. 1623184;1488984363;asciilifeform;that ain't 'white man', that's 'live like american plankton' 1623185;1488984400;asciilifeform;'white man' would be : in that mansion, with coolie-powered air conditioning, and roquefort ad libitum. 1623186;1488984461;phf;of course, but technopark shows all the hoops you have to jump through "private water delivery" "private contract with internet provides for 99.999 internet" "private contract with electric" "fallback generator on site" etc. 1623187;1488984516;phf;because otherwise you're getting your network over microwave relays, and your electric has 70% uptime 1623188;1488984542;asciilifeform;my current (by no stretch of the imagination expert) understanding is that if you try to build this entirely using money, you will simply get raped 1623189;1488984560;asciilifeform;i.e. your generators will cost 10x what they do in usa, locals will make bank and laugh 1623190;1488984571;phf;yes, absolutely 1623191;1488984633;asciilifeform;as i picture it, a, e.g., mircea_popescu , would apply the only known pill: to create a kind of miniature british raj, where the locals know the consequences of misbehaviour 1623192;1488984638;asciilifeform;(of this and whatever other type) 1623193;1488984668;phf;in fact my bed&briekfast guy is very much "an old dutch moves to an indian village": "license costs 300rs, but they found another irregularity so i have to pay 10'000rs fee" 1623194;1488984763;*;asciilifeform never been to india, but worked for many, many years with emigres 1623195;1488984774;phf;but i think the main source of rape is the government, rather then locals as such. can find pretty much anything for local prices, as long as you're in the right place asking the rightk inds of questions 1623196;1488984813;asciilifeform;satellite relay for local prices..? 1623197;1488984816;asciilifeform;in bazar? 1623198;1488985030;phf;if you have a line of sight from your property to a direct satellite tower, you can get the owner to put an antena up for you, for sure. that doesn't require special licenses anywhere. of course putting up a mast on your site most likely requires government license and that's where you're going to get the bulk of rapage 1623199;1488985120;asciilifeform;this aspect doesn't differ much from usa 1623200;1488985131;asciilifeform;(the difference is that you don't normally ~need~ a mast there) 1623201;1488985132;phf;or go through second or third hop, those might be more approachable 1623202;1488985180;phf;well, define "need". yes, your default option is that you're paying for comcast(tm)(c)(r) 1623203;1488985217;phf;it would be significantly cheaper to put up a mast in india, than it is in u.s. even factoring rape licenses 1623204;1488985271;asciilifeform;phf: recall the thread with mircea_popescu re the traffic cops in some african shithole ? where millionaire 'i can pay whatever, fuck you' and the next day finds that the fines have grown six decimal places for him 1623205;1488985347;phf;unless you're an mp, you don't have a choice to tell fuck you to local fauna, and the whole "i can pay whatever" only plays it out well in shitty miami based tv shows 1623206;1488985469;asciilifeform;well that's what i am wondering, if you're entirely 'not mp', then should be prepared to pay orbital prices for 'white man' terraforming ? or this is overly pessimistic, and the local won't (why not?) charge you a kind of ad hoc 'laffer curve' maximum they think you can bear without going broke ? 1623207;1488985674;phf;i think if you're ~entirely~ not mp, you're going to get raped anywhere. but if you're a little bit mp (which i think qualifies present people, otherwise none of us would be here, you yourself were trying to buy a projects building in a fucking baltimore), then i think you have better chance extracting value in india, than you do in americas. because bureaucracy runs deep here, need much more play money to sway it your way. there, you ~can~ get away with paying 1623208;1488985856;asciilifeform;aha, the worst indias actually look pretty good standing next to baltimore. 1623209;1488987126;phf;besides the area is still primed by the british, bene gesserit style, as sahib you will be sought out, as an articulate and educated one you will be retained. 1623210;1488987147;asciilifeform;theoretically. 1623211;1488987163;asciilifeform;didja find yourself sought-out-and-retained, phf ? 1623212;1488987167;phf;yes 1623213;1488987185;asciilifeform;neato. would be interesting to hear what this consists of 1623214;1488987404;phf;well, the most ridiculous example, i befriended a doctor, initially by simply pointing out Nehru in a picture, then producing a few coherent sentences about partition of india period. was subsequently invited to dinner at his house, with family, etc. 1623215;1488989162;asciilifeform;phf: i had almost identical experience with emigre right here in usa! 1623216;1488989172;asciilifeform;complete with nehru 1623217;1488989415;asciilifeform;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://archive.is/M8R9F << lulzgem re your tractors from earlier qntra 1623218;1488989416;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1623219;1488989457;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-03#1420728 1623220;1488989457;a111;Logged on 2016-03-03 01:58 phf: do you know what hurree babu really wants? he wants to be made a member of the royal society by taking ethnological notes. 1623221;1488989488;asciilifeform;aha 1623222;1488989548;phf;i think it's still a significant time period for a lot of indians. possibly the last one. 1623223;1488989675;phf;in this particular case, the differentiator was the subtle lean. i mean, the south they have a special perspective on the whole thing. i suspect many of their wealthy families have little shrines to godse 1623224;1488989734;asciilifeform;as a boy (after moving to usa) i once visited a house of a sikh d00d whom father was working for . he had entire room, shrine. 1623225;1488989740;asciilifeform;mega-house, also. 1623226;1488989759;phf;to godse? :o 1623227;1488989775;asciilifeform;to i-have-nfi-what 1623228;1488989783;phf;oh oh 1623229;1488989811;phf;!~google nathuram godse 1623230;1488989812;jhvh1;phf: Nathuram Godse - Wikipedia: ; Assassination of Mahatma Gandhi - Wikipedia: ; Why did Nathuram Godse kill Mahatma Gandhi? - Scroll.in: 1623231;1488989822;asciilifeform;aaaaaaah 1623232;1488989824;asciilifeform;lol! 1623233;1488990015;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/08/trumps-border-adjustment-tax-just-means-new-loopholes-thats-the-point/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Trump’s Border Adjustment Tax just means new loopholes? That’s the point! 1623234;1488996110;mircea_popescu;phf i was vaguely considering sending a an infestor. something reasonable, 2/3 bedroom 2 bathroom proper kitchen ac etc. it does get terribly hot does it. 1623235;1488996302;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623175 << the correct solution is buy 16yo girl from her father in adhana village, beat her into shape for a coupla years, buy her first ak by the time she turns 18. if you've 2-3 years to spare you'll be fine. 1623236;1488996302;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 14:41 asciilifeform: which is why asciilifeform will probably not be buying the mansion next to phf's in india.. 1623237;1488996340;asciilifeform;don't forget the elephant also, for her to ride. 1623238;1488996388;mircea_popescu;vespa for the wasp. 1623239;1488996414;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tnqnXJl9qE derp related. 1623240;1488996503;asciilifeform;in other minor lulz, i reversed the EC_KEY_generate_key from satoshi's libeay32.dll (where he stuffed openssl) 1623241;1488996526;asciilifeform;it corresponds to the historic turd found in https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/0d01d8a7359e311b461cd1b964ce90d0699c2a2f/crypto/ec/ec_key.c 1623242;1488996534;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in other news, http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1990978-senalan-a-la-droga-como-madre-de-los-delitos-en-buenos-aires 1623243;1488996543;mircea_popescu;including "Los femicidios aumentaron de forma "desmesurada", según admitió ayer Conte Grand. El funcionario dijo que, de acuerdo con las proyecciones estadísticas, este delito aumentó en torno al 1200 por ciento en el último año." et all 1623244;1488996555;mircea_popescu;ie, i will fucking stomp them, so help me god. 1623245;1488996578;asciilifeform;and whole shebang lives and dies by CryptGenRandom 1623246;1488996632;asciilifeform;dorrendorf & gutterman reversed the latter in '07 1623247;1488996678;asciilifeform;i shit thee not, microshit used 8 instances of rc4, seeded by cpu time, process indices, and a little bit of misc liquishit 1623248;1488996695;mircea_popescu;well yeah. 1623249;1488996705;asciilifeform;the interesting bit is , however, that satoshi mined his blox like machine gun, in succession 1623250;1488996706;mircea_popescu;aanyway, FG patch for trb wouldn't hurt. 1623251;1488996711;asciilifeform;probably possible to set up a lattice 1623252;1488996728;asciilifeform;i'm a little surprised that nobody's walked away with his pile yet. 1623253;1488996770;asciilifeform;(there is -- quite certainly -- no reseeding in the interval between his first couple blox at least ) 1623254;1488996794;mircea_popescu;reward's right there innit 1623255;1488996797;asciilifeform;( who wants dorrendorf et al : http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.329.5230&rep=rep1&type=pdf ) 1623256;1488996840;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i can picture the reward, but also the butthurt 1623257;1488996886;trinque;that's the rewarding kind of butthurt though 1623258;1488996900;mircea_popescu;eh. bitcoin has no butt. 1623259;1488997069;asciilifeform;who wants to attempt this sport -- i have posted the necessary ingredients above. 1623260;1488997079;shinohai;https://www.cyberscoop.com/confide-app-security-audit-donald-trump-white-house/ "Confide, which employs no cryptography specialists on it's development team, leaks decrypted messages to attackers" 1623261;1488997084;asciilifeform;( other than the boojum -- the related-key attack for ecdsa. this you will have to invent. ) 1623262;1488997100;asciilifeform;lol cryptographyspecialists 1623263;1488997125;shinohai;There's an app for that! (tm) 1623264;1488997202;mircea_popescu;hurr durr, how dares someone http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ 1623265;1488997237;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it isn't as if mr.t et al were using actual crypto themselves 1623266;1488997303;mircea_popescu;that's unrelated to the matter that female state hallucinations are hallucinations. from "mit" to "experts" and so called judges etc. 1623267;1488997454;asciilifeform;( picture for a moment trying to sell a working airplane to cargocultists. 'what's petrol?' 'this thing is heavy' 'waitasec i have to learn to read?!' etc ) 1623268;1488997718;mircea_popescu;i can assure you from experience it is infinitely easier to teach any ~actual~ science to a slavegirl than to an intelligent girl. 1623269;1488997740;mircea_popescu;intelligence is overrated ; obedience is by far the more important predictor of effectuality however defined and success however measured. 1623270;1488997778;asciilifeform;1337 prussian 1623271;1488997790;mircea_popescu;which is why all the impudent cuntlets want to be "in a creative career" aka hallucinated non-science. if irresponsible activity bereft of verification, ie, the antithesis of science, then their imposture has some space 1623272;1488997828;mircea_popescu;"advertising", not mechanical engineer. because bridges actually collapse whereas all "campaigns" can be "a success" even with <10% ROI 1623273;1488998234;asciilifeform;onlooker sure luuuvvvs switching ip 1623274;1488998971;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623180 << funny, they hve one here too. it's entirely abandoned, except today it was day of the mujer so it was full of the usual middle class middle aged dop. 1623275;1488998971;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 14:44 phf: re "living like white man" http://www.technopark.org 1623276;1488999051;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623191 << there is no other known or possible solution to the subhuman indolence of unwhite men, than the whip in the left and the saber in the right. 1623277;1488999051;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 14:50 asciilifeform: as i picture it, a, e.g., mircea_popescu , would apply the only known pill: to create a kind of miniature british raj, where the locals know the consequences of misbehaviour 1623278;1488999072;mircea_popescu;unwhite nonmen, i mean. 1623279;1488999235;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623205 << actually, it's a mainstay of oriental fiction, from harun al rashid to pick-your-nawab. the fundamental unsustainability of traditional economies is evident to the economically aware anthropologist, for instance in the fact that the whole echafaudage ends up requiring an underpinning of "infinite wealth" in the literal sense. very much the oriental equivalent of aristotle's fixed p 1623280;1488999235;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 15:02 phf: unless you're an mp, you don't have a choice to tell fuck you to local fauna, and the whole "i can pay whatever" only plays it out well in shitty miami based tv shows 1623281;1488999235;mircea_popescu;oint. 1623282;1488999268;mircea_popescu;that they're more than willing to hallucinate it in fiction does not of course preclude the actual people stuck with the job of management among the monkeys inventing what best could serve as a palliative. 1623283;1488999341;mircea_popescu;the traditional caliphate, incidentally, exists as a memory today (ie, a cultural mark) and existed historically (ie, as a civilisation) principally, and i do mean that, ~principally~ because an early fellow invented the superb literary device of giving people in payment not just actual value, but caftans! strips of cloth written on! that then they can value to whatever arbitrary value they wish, to offset the absurd valuatio 1623284;1488999342;mircea_popescu;ns they need in order to whatever, motivate themselves. 1623285;1488999374;mircea_popescu;so the satrap of fuckistan got paid a gold coin and a golden caftan worth anothjer gold coin, and counted himself happy. whereas the daymio's men couldn't be paid anything upon the kamikaze, and so the4y rebelled. 1623286;1488999391;mircea_popescu;every empire's history is intimately predicated on the invention of some kind of bezzle. 1623287;1488999453;mircea_popescu;but otherwise, the sultan of 1001 nights is a guy with infinite wealth ; that is his form, and his function. and the stories about how the virgin got a lot for less than her life are the life and blood of village life. hope, i suppose, after a (very oricsh) fashion. 1623288;1488999561;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which kamikaze are you thinking of here ? the one in late 1200s ? 1623289;1488999570;asciilifeform;where the mongol fleet sank..? 1623290;1488999575;mircea_popescu;now... wouldn't you wish to be their sultan ? because perhaps you've not read enough levy strauss & co to know about the function of the scapegoat in primitive societies. they certainly wouldn't mind BELIEVING that you do have infinite wealth. because they need someone for that role. and have. for a long time. 1623291;1488999582;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform exactly that one. 1623292;1488999593;mircea_popescu;see, the "heroic" heroes... won. so they gotta make bank now, yes ? 1623293;1488999616;asciilifeform;as in the classic roman problem, of from what to get loot with which to pay soldiers..? 1623294;1488999674;mircea_popescu;quite so. 1623295;1488999682;asciilifeform;also 'sultan of infinite wealth' is not so diff from 'lender of last resort',among modern monkeys 1623296;1488999749;asciilifeform;'infinities' are cheques that work ok until they are actually cashed (as per mircea_popescu's old article with the gold mountain) 1623297;1488999756;asciilifeform;or the one with byzantine army 1623298;1488999785;mircea_popescu;understand the problem fairly and well. hojo sanemasa got out of bed, and went to the beach. he could have stayed in bed and pulled on his dick (not! very pointedly not, pulled on concubine's clits and nippes -- that's exactly like showing up for war. if you want an equivallent -- checked his reddit.) what does this fundamental breach entitle him to ? 1623299;1488999807;mircea_popescu;he "confronted his death", which is what always, ALWAYS happens when intellect leaves itself to look at the world. what now. 1623300;1488999869;mircea_popescu;hojo sanemasa does not want this to have been in vain. because, if for no other reason, such as pride, vanity, or social consensus, because he only has a finite count of these. they must be employed efficaciously. what now ? 1623301;1488999905;mircea_popescu;what, mp will say "japanese -- men ; burmese -- dogs" ? maybe he cares, maybe he doesn't. what else you got. 1623302;1488999917;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/tings-with-a-tang/ << Trilema - Tings with a tang. 1623303;1488999924;mircea_popescu;caftans work, yes, lenders of last resort, harun al rashid, the eye of god. what have you got ? 1623304;1489000082;asciilifeform;apparently thinking in finite terms (=~ 'confront his death' !11) is a bit much cpu load for most folx 1623305;1489000083;mircea_popescu;it all starts when mothers wanting their kid to stop shitting himself prefer, rather than strangle one pour encourager les autres, to i dunno, give him a cookie every time he shat in the designated pot. prepubescent prostitution would have been a healthier habit, and more productive for the wee tyke ; but women are stupid in the sense of exactly this myopia. 1623306;1489000168;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform to quote, 1623307;1489000168;mircea_popescu;That's globalism : the hope, eagerly swallowed, the promise, readily offered, that somehow somewhere there exists another Earth, which works not on real but on ideal principles, and on which every voter, every citizen, every sack of worthless flesh will have it all. Everything they could dream of and more, forty beautiful young maidens, restraining the modest gaze of their wide and lovely eyes, like pearls, companions of equa 1623308;1489000168;mircea_popescu;l age, splendid, voluptuous, non-menstruating nor urinating nor defecating and childfree (or else being able to bring to term within an hour), with bodies not affected by pregnancy or breast-feeding, about 60 cubits (ie 27.5 m) tall and 7 cubits (ie, 3.2 m) wide, transparent to the marrow of their bones, eternally young and hairless except the eyebrows and the head. Plus pure, beautiful and much more besides. 1623309;1489000171;mircea_popescu;And why not ? 1623310;1489000171;asciilifeform;'strangle one' requires spares, neh 1623311;1489000180;mircea_popescu;so ? 1623312;1489000273;asciilifeform;so, worx great in afghan, where they make a dozen 1623313;1489000289;mircea_popescu;all human cervixes could spit out a dozen. 1623314;1489000319;asciilifeform;and ~any d00d could dig tunnels, lay rail. 1623315;1489000375;mircea_popescu;and all this is not to detriment the samurai. the folks went, at night, disguised, and boarded boats (of the tiny fleet) and massacred men and withdrew. they cut down early scouting parties by the bushel. they did more fighting than in any other engagement. it just so happens that all their hard work accounted for less than 1% of the enemy ; and the tornado killed 80%. 1623316;1489000378;asciilifeform;in re : 'coulds' -- 'thermodynamics proposes, kinetics disposes' (tm) (r) (uncle al) 1623317;1489000393;mircea_popescu;they DID do the work. 1623318;1489000628;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: for educational thread -- let's take ben_vulpes , he likes children, where ought he to put a dozen ? 1623319;1489000644;asciilifeform;plains of nebraska ? ( compete with monsanto, somehow ? ) 1623320;1489000649;mircea_popescu;preferably in the hollowed out remains of a bank. after burning down the police station. 1623321;1489000663;asciilifeform;and eat what ? the bodies of the slain ? these run out 1623322;1489000669;mircea_popescu;everything runs out. 1623323;1489000683;mircea_popescu;historically, finding new sources of food was the ~only job of the brood. 1623324;1489000686;mircea_popescu;let them figure it out. 1623325;1489000698;mircea_popescu;(and, incidentally, see how well the ghetto dwellers are adept at that, huh.) 1623326;1489000716;asciilifeform;and say they figure out -- as most large broods in this monkeystan do -- the shortest circuit path -- lolmart. 1623327;1489000719;mircea_popescu;the definition of "white man" can NOT be that your six or twelve year old is outcompeted in a field by unwhite unman's offspring. 1623328;1489000733;asciilifeform;now he presides over 12 lolmart-fed folx, candidates for BingoBoingo's zoological album. mega-win ? 1623329;1489000742;asciilifeform;nature finds ~shortest~ circuits 1623330;1489000770;mircea_popescu;i think your theory is outlaying to the point of irrelevance. 1623331;1489000792;asciilifeform;visit bmore or one of the other hells 1623332;1489000798;mircea_popescu;what's to keep them from kidnapping chelsea clinton, force-feeding her kraft flakes and butchering her in december ? 1623333;1489000802;mircea_popescu;long pig ftw. 1623334;1489000805;asciilifeform;the inhabitants eat ~same thing racoons eat in the park 1623335;1489000814;asciilifeform;not sure mircea_popescu would even want to eat these longpigs. 1623336;1489000828;mircea_popescu;point being, nature provides for filtration. 1623337;1489000836;asciilifeform;does it ? or for toxin concentration. 1623338;1489000842;mircea_popescu;that is the same neh ? 1623339;1489000857;mircea_popescu;filtration is definitionally concentration. 1623340;1489000880;asciilifeform;for the water. not for the salmon eater. 1623341;1489000913;mircea_popescu;what's to keep them from kidnapping chelsea clinton, force-feeding her kraft flakes and burying her alive in the vegetable garden. 1623342;1489000913;mircea_popescu;see ? 1623343;1489000982;asciilifeform;somehow i always recall emperor qin shi huangdi, and his order to bury the 'scholars' and then plant melons for royal table 1623344;1489000990;asciilifeform;( or was it another..? ) 1623345;1489000995;mircea_popescu;one of the more sensible chinese figures 1623346;1489001073;asciilifeform;but 'the thing that keeps' is that ~all creatures take shortest path, ~all of the time. 1623347;1489001088;asciilifeform;or there would be no such thing as 'kraft flake' 1623348;1489001093;mircea_popescu;well, evidently "white man" has been making a habit of taking longest blind paths. 1623349;1489001101;asciilifeform;with some help. 1623350;1489001110;mircea_popescu;that dun enter into it. 1623351;1489001199;asciilifeform;at any rate, 'white man' -- as in the folx who inhabited phf's india mansion; conceived of reactors, etc -- is ~dead. 1623352;1489001230;mircea_popescu;this is not unlike arguing that "sphericity is dead" 1623353;1489001249;asciilifeform;possibly. 1623354;1489001306;*;shinohai reads latest trilema, still scratches head over cars in la casa 1623355;1489001319;mircea_popescu;ikr? 1623356;1489001586;shinohai;Do they have a "mes de autos" ? 1623357;1489001767;mircea_popescu;well evidently they have mas de autos. 1623358;1489004022;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623209 << this is probably the most cogent underwire in the whole thing. you are the 21 yo with a car in the rural higschool yard. they feel a deep burning inside, and the only prescription is peniform and attached to your crotch. 1623359;1489004022;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 15:32 phf: besides the area is still primed by the british, bene gesserit style, as sahib you will be sought out, as an articulate and educated one you will be retained. 1623360;1489004033;mircea_popescu;of course, the point is not "whether you are mp" but rather -- whether you are orwell. 1623361;1489004047;mircea_popescu;are you a pisenlit par la racine, to use the french expression ? 1623362;1489007157;mircea_popescu;http://logs.minigame.bz/search?q=dll << openal32.dll turns out 1623363;1489007830;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U9rIMn4z6Y 1623364;1489008284;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: why same name of dll, i have nfi, but satoshi's only had openssl 1623365;1489008296;mircea_popescu;o fuck, i mischanned. 1623366;1489008296;asciilifeform;( not audio/graphics) 1623367;1489008304;asciilifeform;lolk 1623368;1489008345;asciilifeform;and i misdllnamed, not even same name 1623369;1489008396;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXNy0JeBchk << in other lulz, "le francais pour les pauvres" 1623370;1489011112;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623164 << i missed that. i've reached out to zeptobars people and they are obviously interested in doing the scans as long as i provide the chip and they can post it to their site 1623371;1489011112;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 14:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623154 << phf do you presently have with what to make die shot ? i do have a dead xl1201 cpu board here. 1623372;1489011198;phf;facilitating reversing is one of their stated goals, e.g. https://zeptobars.com/en/read/KR580VM80A-intel-i8080-verilog-reverse-engineering 1623373;1489011340;BingoBoingo; now he presides over 12 lolmart-fed folx, candidates for BingoBoingo's zoological album. mega-win ? << But they ca fix their John Deere nao! 1623374;1489011399;BingoBoingo;lol http://qntra.net/2017/03/wikileaks-hands-elected-trump-us-government-weapon-to-gut-careerist-deep-state-us-government/#comment-89063 1623375;1489011480;mircea_popescu;o hey, pretty cool site. 1623376;1489011510;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo lel! 1623377;1489011924;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1623378;1489011930;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1158.65, vol: 12616.16834789 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1135.0, vol: 8603.58194 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1162.0, vol: 43907.54684918 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1122.834906, vol: 10166.50200000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1157.246, vol: 3076.78150692 | Volume-weighted last average: 1153.22936316 1623379;1489011960;BingoBoingo;Waterfall lost volume? 1623380;1489012170;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : femen, the "ukrainian" organisation is selling shit priced in dollars via 2checkout.com, the columbus ohio us corp. 1623381;1489012192;BingoBoingo;lol 1623382;1489012193;mircea_popescu;apparently topless is perfectly acceptable where bitcoin isn't. just as long as letter from department of dorkitude. 1623383;1489012671;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo amusingly, i noticed them because they rank for ANY GOOGLE SEARCH with ukraine in it, among plenty others. 1623384;1489012689;mircea_popescu;but i'm sure this isn't in any sense manual ; just a very relevant site. notwithstanding no content and no links. ALGORITHMS!!! 1623385;1489012988;BingoBoingo;Aha 1623386;1489013095;asciilifeform;algoreithm 1623387;1489013359;mod6;"let me tell you about man-bear-pig..." 1623388;1489013770;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623370 << maybe put me in touch with these folx 1623389;1489013770;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 22:11 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623164 << i missed that. i've reached out to zeptobars people and they are obviously interested in doing the scans as long as i provide the chip and they can post it to their site 1623390;1489013784;asciilifeform;i'll post the board at own expense, but i only have 1 1623391;1489013788;asciilifeform;don't want to waste it. 1623392;1489013795;asciilifeform;(i don't expect to ever run across another.) 1623393;1489014033;asciilifeform;though i wonder if optical microscope will be worth a damn in this case : iirc smbx cpu was 'gate array', an early form of fpga based on mask rom 1623394;1489014137;asciilifeform;http://www.donnamaie.com/AMCC_Vintage/Q20080_die.jpg << example 1623395;1489014779;asciilifeform;!~later tell phf https://symbolics.lisp.engineer/ivory-cpu-heatsink-and-instability << possibly interesting to phf..? 1623396;1489014779;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1623397;1489014893;asciilifeform;( interesting and at the same time depressing www. 'aesthete weenie' got hold of a lispm! ) 1623398;1489014948;asciilifeform;the photos are not half-bad tho. 1623399;1489015050;mircea_popescu;why depressing ? 1623400;1489015173;asciilifeform;well, https://symbolics.lisp.engineer/goals appears to be a list of what d00d aims to do with the thing, and typical example is 'port classic games to it', more or less 0 to do with reversing the thing 1623401;1489015183;mircea_popescu;so ? 1623402;1489015222;asciilifeform;so snoar from my pov. 1623403;1489015503;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, ttps://68.media.tumblr.com/e6b9bf1b682ab44d56edcdb0a831131d/tumblr_inline_om77i8WadD1th0i48_500.gif 1623404;1489015541;asciilifeform;wassat, orwell beaten by his gurl? 1623405;1489015545;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you know the need to cut apart the hardware of a 50yo defunct company strikes me as batshit insane 1623406;1489015607;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i did describe earlier, having concluded a few yrs ago that it is cheaper, easier, moar pleasant, to cut appart 'snap4' emulator (i have a pc build here ~with debug symbols~, comes apart in ida nicely) than to suffer with nitric acid and electron microscope 1623407;1489015624;asciilifeform;BUT i do have the chip, bought for some bux, from the old days of giving a shit, and so offer it to phf et al. 1623408;1489015630;mircea_popescu;aha. 1623409;1489015814;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and waiwut, 50?! founded in '80 1623410;1489015849;asciilifeform;time must flow a little faster on mircea_popescu's planet. 1623411;1489015924;shinohai;https://www.memri.org/reports/russian-military-expert-we-are-quietly-seeding-us-shoreline-nuclear-mole-missiles <<< moar missle crisis 1623412;1489016006;asciilifeform;shinohai: old lulzgag , originally invented in '60s, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-30#816492 1623413;1489016006;a111;Logged on 2014-08-30 21:23 asciilifeform: i later learned that v. n. chelomei (famous soviet rocket designer) proposed the placement of atomic bombs near u.s. east costs using a scheme much like this. (official story - it was vetoed as barbaric) 1623414;1489016036;shinohai;lel 1623415;1489016116;asciilifeform;but let american navy dig, on bottom of the sea, looking for boojums. just what the doctor ordered. 1623416;1489017383;phf;guy is an idiot and a butt of many jokes. exactly that, wealthy aspy cto buys expensive toy, proceedes to make a full of himself 1623417;1489017396;phf;*fool 1623418;1489017414;asciilifeform;phf: it hit me in the face immediately 1623419;1489017462;asciilifeform;this isn't the only 1 on the net, either, i found several, they bought lispms, one took hundreds of photos of himself 'hipstering' near it, then one final one where it (??!) burned down 1623420;1489017486;asciilifeform;nao we know where dks's stockpile went. 1623421;1489017521;trinque;lol hipstering near it, so apt. 1623422;1489017544;trinque;I guess it's the next step up from "no, I only type on a mechanical typewriter" 1623423;1489017568;phf;https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasfields << him 1623424;1489017608;asciilifeform;lel, spamatronics 1623425;1489017622;trinque;they have a particular face, don't they 1623426;1489017691;phf;i was on a channel with that character, until the s/r got so low, i had to leave. amongst the things he did, put in a chip backwards "it dun work", rebuilt power supply by sending it to "we rebuilt power supplies" company that did it for $900 for him 1623427;1489017693;phf;etc. 1623428;1489017736;asciilifeform;fool an' his money, etc 1623429;1489017832;phf;last post from "symbolics lisp engineer": I've decided to participate in ProcJam 2016 this year. For a change of pace, I'm building a small roguelike in Clojure with a Unity3D front-end. 1623430;1489017878;*;ben_vulpes blows brains out 1623431;1489017879;asciilifeform;all of this is quite the lulzfest to asciilifeform : none of it existed a few yrs ago when i last looked 1623432;1489017904;ben_vulpes;fuckin waste of a temple 1623433;1489017916;phf;it all sort of ties together somehow. and yes, as trinque said, starts with a particular face 1623434;1489018095;phf;in related http://www.method-combination.net/blog/archives/2017/03/07/nibbles-and-ironclad-releases.html " I will no longer be maintaining nibbles, ironclad, nor any of my other Common Lisp packages" 1623435;1489018125;asciilifeform;oh is that the former sbcl d00d? 1623436;1489018133;asciilifeform;the one who quit and the leahs immediately closed in 1623437;1489018169;ben_vulpes;clisp? 1623438;1489018426;ben_vulpes;oh no i'm thinking of ccl 1623439;1489018427;phf;these narratives are all the same 1623440;1489018432;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615557 1623441;1489018432;a111;Logged on 2017-02-19 15:51 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-20#1507131 << in related news, gbyers, the original systems guru of ccl, who responded to every "modernization" attempt with "sure, if you can explain me what's the point" stepped down. within a day, clozure cl was moved to github, with current list of "issues" https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues. in case anyone was wondering "what happens when linus steps down" 1623442;1489018451;ben_vulpes;ironclad dood wrote the thing in college and then got a job? 1623443;1489018883;asciilifeform;in other minor-league lulz, http://cryptocomb.org 1623444;1489018902;asciilifeform;^ mostly collection of usg 'covert' stooges, or so claims 1623445;1489019151;asciilifeform;in quite other lulz, (pdf) http://www.cs.ru.nl/bachelorscripties/2014/Ben_Brucker___0413291___Government_intervention_on_consumer_crypto_hardware.pdf : 1623446;1489019174;asciilifeform;'The PX-1000 is a device capable of transmitting encrypted text messages over telephone lines. We show that the original version that was produced by TextLite implements the DES algorithm correctly. In 1983, when Philips USFA distributed this device as the PX- 1000Cr, the NSA made a deal with Philips USFA to implement an alternative algorithm. For this alternative version we show that it does 1623447;1489019180;asciilifeform;implement a stream cipher instead of the DES algorithm.' 1623448;1489019213;asciilifeform;( http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Jf4CH/?raw=true << ascii ver, sans photos ) 1623449;1489019354;asciilifeform;^ the earliest, if one is to believe, currently known example of nsa sabotaging ~consumer~ crypto 1623450;1489019447;shinohai;"alternative algo" 1623451;1489021636;mircea_popescu;https://blockchain.info/block-index/1472286/00000000000000000204cd2c9840023f1434f3dcdd7f471e4b8c8638d14d7006 << "bitcoin unlimited" block lel 1623452;1489021669;asciilifeform;looks like normal 1MB 1623453;1489021673;asciilifeform;what do these ~do~..? 1623454;1489021694;mircea_popescu;it's more magic byte / versioning skulldulgery 1623455;1489021700;asciilifeform;aah 1623456;1489021776;mircea_popescu;trinque did you have the "leika" idiots over there ? 1623457;1489021777;asciilifeform;0x20000000 1623458;1489021792;mircea_popescu;romania (well, bucharest) was at some point full of photography-artsy hipsters 1623459;1489021793;asciilifeform;ain't that ~all blocks since year or so ago? 1623460;1489021844;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform some voting bs, i've not followed too closely. 1623461;1489021859;mircea_popescu;after the horrific failure of the "voting" bs last time around, most nobody gives a shit. 1623462;1489021929;mircea_popescu;anyway, irrelevant as it is - currently "bu" is ahead of "segwit" in terms of prbisms. 1623463;1489021936;asciilifeform;https://blockchain.info/block-height/420000 same version tag for instance. 1623464;1489021955;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's not simply that, you'll have to actually go drink the tardswamp if you want specifics. 1623465;1489021960;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: is there any substantial difference b/w the 2 schemes ? 1623466;1489021962;asciilifeform;bitwise 1623467;1489021965;mircea_popescu;yes. 1623468;1489021978;asciilifeform;iirc both were 'we'll mine a >1MB block ANY DAY NAO' 1623469;1489021984;mircea_popescu;this isn't bitwise. 1623470;1489022051;asciilifeform;(i have deeply nfi re what's keeping'em. they can fire the phorkwarz first shot whenever) 1623471;1489022068;asciilifeform;mine 1GB, 1TB, 1PB block if they want. 1623472;1489022068;mircea_popescu;not like we're anymore prepared for this summer than we were for the last. 1623473;1489022094;asciilifeform;didja cancel http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-07#1563577 ? 1623474;1489022094;a111;Logged on 2016-11-07 18:49 mircea_popescu: just as long as i pay 700 bux to the trb, it's not going anywhere. 1623475;1489022100;mircea_popescu;oh i see. 1623476;1489022158;asciilifeform;( at any rate, this'd be the first time a supposed unpreparedness of opponent, kept somebody from firing 1st shot ) 1623477;1489022184;mircea_popescu;point fucking being, technologically we're what, 10 years away from actually having a worthy replacement ? at the present rate, at least. 1623478;1489022207;asciilifeform;depends what is 'worthy replacement' 1623479;1489022210;mircea_popescu;vaguely maybe we cut the wallet, i dunno, sometime in 2018, vaguely maybe we make the first steps towards testing some basics re possible db move, maybe by 2019 etc 1623480;1489022232;asciilifeform;paradoxically a trb-i is light years easier than 'cleaned trb' 1623481;1489022236;mircea_popescu;if they manage to stumble in their own robes and throusers until 2030 or so, trb might even live! 1623482;1489022238;asciilifeform;esp given that i discovered how to use NO DB 1623483;1489022245;asciilifeform;(fixed length tx) 1623484;1489022319;asciilifeform;but this find is applicable, sadly, ~only~ to trbi 1623485;1489022358;mircea_popescu;there's a lot of unsexy, actually needed work. 1623486;1489022451;asciilifeform;there is more 'unsexy, necessary work' than there are, or ever will be, hands 1623487;1489022471;asciilifeform;so gotta set priority, neh 1623488;1489022486;asciilifeform;sorta why beelzebub saw it fit to send us mircea_popescu 1623489;1489022516;mircea_popescu;yes but! 1623490;1489022534;mircea_popescu;truth be told, we have a very serious problem getting new people to actually get head out of ass do something useful. 1623491;1489022556;mircea_popescu;99.9x% of everything is done by people who have been here since founding. tis a little worrysome. 1623492;1489022570;asciilifeform;maybe test the hypothesis re the obedient gurls 1623493;1489022579;asciilifeform;have'em learn ada, etc. 1623494;1489022608;mircea_popescu;and shall i send you in the field ? 1623495;1489022640;mircea_popescu;i'm not about to turn an ox into a duck. and to be very clear, one obedient gurl is worth about fifty or so exceptional programmers. 1623496;1489022642;asciilifeform;last i looked out the window i was as 'in' the field as one might hope in any nightmare, neh 1623497;1489022670;asciilifeform;i have 0 comment on what the duck and the ox are worth 1623498;1489022729;mircea_popescu;so no, there won't be any turning of gurls into dudes. maybe the reverse, though it seems the process is kinda lossy. 1623499;1489022795;mircea_popescu;anyway. not all good things are for that goodness necessarily permitted to exist. maybe humanity is altogether too dumb to have a bitcoin. i guess in time we'll definitely find out. 1623500;1489022805;asciilifeform;well if mircea_popescu's statement is to be taken literally, 'one ox is worth 50 ducks', seems like if you need ducks for something, it'd be a trade you could make. 1623501;1489022811;asciilifeform;or if not -- then obviously not. 1623502;1489022851;mircea_popescu;understand, i was mp before bitcoin was invented. i will be mp after it crashes and burns. tis not a need, for me. 1623503;1489022857;mircea_popescu;i'd like to see it succeed. that's how far it goes. 1623504;1489022881;asciilifeform;dunno from whence came the notion that mircea_popescu 'needed' 1623505;1489022888;mircea_popescu;i'm not going to squeeze the world through the eye of a needle because i'm so infatuated with conceptual beauty that i can't resist. i can resist jus' fine. 1623506;1489022899;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you just said ? above ? 1623507;1489022906;asciilifeform;i said: 'if' 1623508;1489022928;mircea_popescu;well, there's no if. i dun need, tis the fucking point of life in any sense. the less you need the better off you'll be. 1623509;1489022957;asciilifeform;theoretically mircea_popescu dun need, e.g., computer, could have continued to sit on his cocaine yacht in costa rica, until end of his days 1623510;1489022960;asciilifeform;or wherever else. 1623511;1489022987;mircea_popescu;but i'm not about to burn regency furniture for heat, and i'm not about to set girls that can go out and talk to people in front of a computer to ada. 1623512;1489023076;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's grandfather pre-'41 was professor of physics; but post-'41 -- cannoneer. because stalin needed cannoneers. 1623513;1489023083;asciilifeform;so sometimes -- microscope is a hammer, why not. 1623514;1489023084;mircea_popescu;in other news in the same vein, the pirate bay doesn't seem to have... the story of o. 1623515;1489023099;mircea_popescu;tons of retardedness with morgan freeman, aaron schwartz, what have you. 1623516;1489023114;asciilifeform;waiwut ~that~ aaronschwartz? 1623517;1489023118;asciilifeform;the hanging one? 1623518;1489023118;mircea_popescu;i imagine. 1623519;1489023151;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i expect it;s some flimsy attempt to attention whore through keyword stuffing by some inept cunt in california, who has a lot of college debt and utterly no skills to speak of. 1623520;1489023206;asciilifeform;i have deeply nfi, my contact with this species, fwiw, is 0. there is ppm of cockroach in my coffee, and ppm of mouse in my bread, there is 0 of these in my anything afaik. 1623521;1489023314;mircea_popescu;anyway, to come back to it : there's a particular vacuum occuring in bitcoin, 2016-2017 so far, whereby the technically competent are relatively improductive, and the inept, instead of standing to attention before them, are stuck producing the inane bs they produce 1623522;1489023352;mircea_popescu;i have nfi how to address the problem (clearly generated by the unfortunate combination of deep imbecility inborn in americans and the deep suicidal streak of the female state as it is), and so what can i say. 1623523;1489023355;mircea_popescu;kinda frustrating. 1623524;1489023406;asciilifeform;could make, say, updated Open Problems list, say. 1623525;1489023412;mircea_popescu;no. 1623526;1489023439;mircea_popescu;and in general, the hallucinant delusion that person is in position to "own free will" and "self determination" and fucking humanism is five quarters of the whole problem. 1623527;1489023450;mircea_popescu;suppose the list is there. what next ? 1623528;1489023465;asciilifeform;then either folx solve, or 'humanity too dumb to deserve goodies', what. 1623529;1489023467;mircea_popescu;"oh hurr durr, i am going to now judge this list." 1623530;1489023468;mircea_popescu;really ? 1623531;1489023478;mircea_popescu;"and having so judged, i will now apply myself to problem i selected by criteria." 1623532;1489023480;mircea_popescu;REALLY ? 1623533;1489023483;asciilifeform;alternatively catch people and trap'em in a cellar and make'em work.. 1623534;1489023493;asciilifeform;(seems to flow out of the 'delusion of free will' comment) 1623535;1489023515;asciilifeform;i dun see a 'third' here 1623536;1489023519;mircea_popescu;free fucking will, suppose you go to a mall where they blindfold you and take your credit card. 1623537;1489023521;mircea_popescu;free will much ? 1623538;1489023535;mircea_popescu;how the fuck is someone who doesn't know supposed to choose. 1623539;1489023558;asciilifeform;'low information voter' (tm) (r) aha 1623540;1489023564;phf;we did just burn significant amount of humint on reimplementing irc bots and log servers 1623541;1489023566;mircea_popescu;but not even it, they can't be high informatio, 1623542;1489023584;mircea_popescu;i'm a low information fucking voter, bitcoin is a) unreadable and b) a humongous uncomprehended problem anyway! 1623543;1489023602;mircea_popescu;phf you think it burnt ? 1623544;1489023638;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: fwiw at this point i understand (in the arithmetic sense) how it (protocolically) worx 1623545;1489023647;asciilifeform;nao wat. 1623546;1489023654;mircea_popescu;i may dare say the same, especially in the evenings after a cognac or two. 1623547;1489023658;asciilifeform;( hey nubbins, i dun need the b00k no moar!111!! ) 1623548;1489023671;mircea_popescu;nao not much. we have between us a literal raft of problems with tentative statement and tentative possible solutions. 1623549;1489023719;asciilifeform;the thing that cools asciilifeform's enthusiasm re 'trbi' to somewhere south of 3 kelvin, is that it isn't clear to him that anybody actually wants this, for something 1623550;1489023755;mircea_popescu;the "at some point the idiots pulling on the tablecloth will rip it, and the a) here's a replacement is way better than the b) i guess we should think of replacement" ? 1623551;1489023761;mircea_popescu;ain't convincing, i meant. 1623552;1489023772;mircea_popescu;sorta goes in the "parachute - folded before jumping" vein. 1623553;1489023857;asciilifeform;i oughta be quite specific re : 'nobody wants'. say i write a trbi, along one of the described schemes. nao wat -- mircea_popescu mines it ? and after this, who will want it ? 'just another premined alt!111' etc. 1623554;1489023871;mircea_popescu;phf understand the significant costs of p2p syncronization, as just yesterday exemplified in say http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-07#1622837 ; the electricity bitcoin burns is an investment, in social order. just like the pyamids. 1623555;1489023871;a111;Logged on 2017-03-07 17:30 mircea_popescu: this has been a honest-to-god real-time davout node emerging in march going "so guyse... chatlog-block-419333 is highest rite ?" and resyncs ensued. 1623556;1489023873;asciilifeform;and 0 interest to the luser reddit folx et al. (why would it) 1623557;1489023894;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you conflate many things. having the car ready doesn't necessitate it being launched early. 1623558;1489023912;phf;well, i regret spending so much energy on infrastructure, but i saw it as necessary evil. the fact that others had to i see in terms of personal failure at best 1623559;1489023916;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tru! 1623560;1489023935;mircea_popescu;phf no, it is not failure or waste. it is the necessary basis for independent human intelligence. 1623561;1489023955;mircea_popescu;the syren song of "oh, how wasteful" is always the side a of a record that goes the same old droning rooseveltism. 1623562;1489023962;mircea_popescu;on side b. 1623563;1489024004;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: since we're on subj of 'trbi', i was hoping to see the thread continue, re whether mempools, or whether my particular, or some other, scheme for abolition of mempool can be made to work , and so forth 1623564;1489024024;mircea_popescu;me too, but i'm not intelligent enough to be able to say something this soon. 1623565;1489024072;mircea_popescu;anyway, but the "i go write trbi" thing is not particularly useful as an exercise in solipsism, herculean or otherwise. 1623566;1489024082;asciilifeform;noshit 1623567;1489024104;mircea_popescu;that's a large part of the true problem, i suspect -- people who are truly capable are VERY used to labouring in solitude, becauyse hey, ever since about 6 they encountered the unleashed idiocy of world and formed bad habits. 1623568;1489024124;mircea_popescu;so trb-ing is a huge anti-impedancer for everyone who could be working on it. 1623569;1489024169;asciilifeform;i even suspect that the ~truly~ capable have formed lethal allergy to entire notion of programming a comp 1623570;1489024177;asciilifeform;and will not appear regardless. 1623571;1489024182;mircea_popescu;well there is that. 1623572;1489024197;asciilifeform;(they ~might~ come to a pre-set table, as mircea_popescu to bitcoin. ~might~) 1623573;1489024200;mircea_popescu;some can sometimes be seduced, evidently, but it's a very iffy proposition. 1623574;1489024208;asciilifeform;but i'd be the last to know what ought to go on such a table. 1623575;1489024271;asciilifeform;(i have some notion of what ought ~not~ to go on the table. but 'omit liquishit' does not get you a champion cook title ) 1623576;1489024285;mircea_popescu;anyway, much more in the general -- the republic of intelligent people will only succeed in rendering the idiots back to their chains if it somehow actually gets the intelligent people involved. 1623577;1489024332;mircea_popescu;which is the mirror statement of this -- peasants can be kept packing mud in the buff by a round table. 40 knights aren't 4, which aren't 2 etcetera. 1623578;1489024418;asciilifeform;raises the question, of what the 'knights' are doing instead. 1623579;1489024424;asciilifeform;..the bottle? 1623580;1489024427;mircea_popescu;being sad. 1623581;1489024449;mircea_popescu;what were you doing instead ? 1623582;1489024469;asciilifeform;i happen to have entire www dedicated to the particular variant of being sad!111 1623583;1489024476;mircea_popescu;so yeah. being sad. 1623584;1489024503;asciilifeform;( for instance, this http://www.loper-os.org/?p=702 ultimately pointless lens grinding, ate most of a year!! ) 1623585;1489024562;asciilifeform;while we have this thread: i often come back in my head to the question of why folx visit, and then choose to go back to being-sad. 1623586;1489024565;asciilifeform;e.g. the finn 1623587;1489024568;asciilifeform;what became of the finn. 1623588;1489024586;asciilifeform;!#seen kmalkki 1623589;1489024586;a111;2016-10-15 apu1 also really needs DBREQn asserted to give access to USEHDT IR/DR pair 1623590;1489024598;asciilifeform;or, say, 1623591;1489024603;asciilifeform;!#seen mike_c 1623592;1489024603;a111;2016-04-27 at least you won the 'most famous mircea popescu' award - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mircea+popescu 1623593;1489024625;mircea_popescu;how did that go, "but my son and my daughter came out of the water and said papa you'd promised you'd play..." 1623594;1489024649;mircea_popescu;there's plenty of bottles everywhere ; and one who's blind drunk already has serious trouble seeing straight 1623595;1489024673;mircea_popescu;not to mention, it wouldn't be the first time. you understand this ? most tried things, in a widening fan, a la alf's own nsa attempt. 1623596;1489024697;mircea_popescu;socially inept males aren't born socially inept, nor do they build their ineptitude in a day. 1623597;1489024713;asciilifeform;aha, picture it, i could be in there nao, massaging Classification Guides (tm) (r) or somesuch cthonian horror 1623598;1489024718;mircea_popescu;it's built over numerous attempts, through miscalibrated point "improvements" 1623599;1489024752;asciilifeform;fwiw asciilifeform was 100% 'socially ept' before moved to monkeystan. 1623600;1489024774;asciilifeform;but has problems interacting with monkeys as if they were people. 1623601;1489024776;mircea_popescu;ept lol. apt! 1623602;1489024924;mircea_popescu;in short : there's no shortage of distractions, and sorting through them requires a criteria, which is fundamentally incompatible with sadness. 1623603;1489024945;mircea_popescu;because that's entirely what sadness is : the perception of the impossibility of a criteria, formed on the basis of extended periods of absent criteria. 1623604;1489025022;asciilifeform;'Налево пойдешь - коня потеряешь, Направо пойдешь - жизнь потеряешь; Прямо пойдешь – жив будешь, да себя позабудешь' (tm) (r) (ru fairy tale) 1623605;1489025033;mircea_popescu;which in turn is driven by -- the fact that you're capable to abstractly form criteria is not useful if those criteria exclude "the whole world", because well, by definition that's not a criteria ; and if this situation is passible of occuring, you're in the meta-unfortunate position where you lack the outside authority that may challenge the parts where your abstracted criteria are actually misstated. 1623606;1489025044;mircea_popescu;that latter part happens here all the fucking time, at that. 1623607;1489025066;asciilifeform;the endgame is eating nagant. 1623608;1489025104;mircea_popescu;pretty sure that's also a romanian tale. something with valley of eternal life and the maidens thereof ? 1623609;1489025121;asciilifeform;aha, there is a variant where turning right gets you a wife 1623610;1489025125;asciilifeform;or similar. 1623611;1489025329;asciilifeform;fwiw, and i think i mentioned this in the past, asciilifeform's own brother knows what we do here, and likes to say 'futile, people are idiots, nobody will use genuine crypto,' etc 1623612;1489025347;mircea_popescu;paragon of sad. 1623613;1489025350;asciilifeform;and the mr.t-uses-snapchat (or what was it) does not exactly disprove. 1623614;1489025374;mircea_popescu;perhaps explain to him that the entire point is for "the people" to be doomed, and i mean it quite literally, warsaw ghetto liquidation style. 1623615;1489025413;asciilifeform;i dun do much for the sad folx, who know that they have tickets reserved for same wagen 1623616;1489025501;asciilifeform;*it 1623617;1489025514;mircea_popescu;o, they do ? 1623618;1489025549;mircea_popescu;and in other "what not to do with a girl", http://68.media.tumblr.com/ccaee0a5a25aaede56a797d0df81065a/tumblr_off2dl0sU11vfo18mo1_500.gif 1623619;1489025564;asciilifeform;ew 1623620;1489025568;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1623621;1489025577;asciilifeform;kindergartener knows 1623622;1489025590;asciilifeform;or i'd naively imagine he oughta 1623623;1489025606;mircea_popescu;yeah, your idea of kindergarteners might not be exactly on point. 1623624;1489025736;asciilifeform;re other 'sad people', asciilifeform's pet is fond of remarking 'if your work did >0, why you not yet been gassed' 1623625;1489025742;asciilifeform;which is imho a point 1623626;1489025754;mircea_popescu;because no gas lol. 1623627;1489025763;asciilifeform;gas for hastings, but not for asciilifeform !11 1623628;1489025769;asciilifeform;must be rationed, for Effective People 1623629;1489025779;mircea_popescu;oh, is your girl the deep font of all the we-thought-it-was-specifically-alfish big-usg conspiracism ? 1623630;1489025788;asciilifeform;nope 1623631;1489025829;mircea_popescu;and yeah, bring her over, i wanna ask her why she don't do teh boob scribbling 1623632;1489025910;asciilifeform;answered 'if you want, i'll do it, whatever' 1623633;1489025923;asciilifeform;( which takes all the sport out!111 ) 1623634;1489025937;mircea_popescu;lol! i wanted to ask her! 1623635;1489025982;asciilifeform;she'll be in the next asciilifeform-expedition, then mircea_popescu could ask... 1623636;1489025994;mircea_popescu;what, no fingers ? no computor ? 1623637;1489026024;mircea_popescu;i don't ask suck things in person, as you well know i'm socially shy. gotta do it from behind kbd. 1623638;1489026025;asciilifeform;she has a box that wwwiates, and not much else . (mostly lives in paper.) 1623639;1489026082;mircea_popescu;https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/trilema ! 1623640;1489026302;asciilifeform;one day 1623641;1489026309;mircea_popescu;why so shy anyway. 1623642;1489026326;asciilifeform;( pet, answering this : 'you promised to fuck hour ago, and instead you are on the console doing this nonsense' ) 1623643;1489026340;mircea_popescu;lol aite. ttyl! 1623644;1489026351;*;asciilifeform bbl.. 1623645;1489026507;ben_vulpes;lol much surprise 1623646;1489026532;mircea_popescu;i imagine he's now going to spend a pleasant half hour seing various alphanumeric strings on assorted parts. 1623647;1489026558;*;mircea_popescu is vaguely amused at the synchronization of the ladies-behind-the-lords : just as one's sucked in, another's spat out. 1623648;1489026609;ben_vulpes;eh i've yet to get my sucking tonight 1623649;1489026631;ben_vulpes;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/wallet.cpp?v=makefiles#0306 << the "no seriously i mean it" flag in action 1623650;1489026649;mircea_popescu;anyway... bbl. 1623651;1489030105;asciilifeform;in other noose, somebody's selling a crate of old usgtrons containing 'clipper chip' on shitbay, lel 1623652;1489031827;BingoBoingo; ..the bottle? << Apparently makes newsmen in tradition of cazalla and BingoBoingo 1623653;1489031842;BingoBoingo;Otherwise sometimes symptom of the sad 1623654;1489035379;mircea_popescu;onlooker get a proper client and stop with the join/part lest you get banned. 1623655;1489056780;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats 1623656;1489056782;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 456437 | Current Difficulty: 4.6076935809E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 457631 | Next Difficulty In: 1194 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 3 hours, 23 minutes, and 38 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None 1623657;1489059929;deedbot;http://deedbot.org/bundle-456445.txt 1623658;1489064936;shinohai;!!up reddead23 1623659;1489064937;deedbot;reddead23 voiced for 30 minutes. 1623660;1489072577;asciilifeform;'"If the President is going to make outlandish claims like this in the future, he needs to know he will be exposed and high-ranking people within the US government -- like the director of our intelligence agencies and the FBI -- will be forced to say the President wasn't telling the truth," the California Democrat said.' 1623661;1489072579;asciilifeform;didjaknow. 1623662;1489072758;asciilifeform;meanwhile, elsewhere in monkeystan, 1623663;1489072763;asciilifeform;'The disclosures “equip our adversaries with tools and information to do us harm,” said Ryan Trapani, a spokesman for the C.I.A. He added that the C.I.A. is legally prohibited from spying on individuals in the United States and “does not do so.”' 1623664;1489072776;asciilifeform;^ break with tradition, where 'neither confirm nor deny' 1623665;1489074064;mircea_popescu;lel 1623666;1489074087;mircea_popescu;if california democrats think they're going to escape, they need to know they're getting fucked. 1623667;1489074780;asciilifeform;escape? 1623668;1489074970;mircea_popescu;yeah. there's this readily self-bestowed delusion of security. 1623669;1489074982;mircea_popescu;like im not gonna fuck them with the wide side of the toiulet plunger. 1623670;1489075107;asciilifeform;i can only suppose that the last plunger mircea_popescu used, was a bit too thin 1623671;1489075120;asciilifeform;so they did not notice. 1623672;1489075242;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the dead flea tells no tales 1623673;1489075252;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the surviving flea imagines itself the first and only flea history has seen. 1623674;1489075286;mircea_popescu;such is the unspeakable advantage of decerebrated life. 1623675;1489078885;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623585 << i humbly think there is a bit of a false dichotomy happening here (first approximation of what "here" is could be, "mircea_popescu's head.") either X is doing useful work for tmsr, or X is necessarily wasting time doing whatever-X-but-not-tmsr'y things (including "having dayjob(s)", "large side-project", etc.) 1623676;1489078885;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 01:56 asciilifeform: while we have this thread: i often come back in my head to the question of why folx visit, and then choose to go back to being-sad. 1623677;1489078893;Framedragger;this works to strengthen the notion that tmsr is apex of importance/awesomeness/etc.; as otherwise one would be exposed to the possibility that "maybe we're not so important here anyway." :) 1623678;1489078955;Framedragger;not to bait or anything - i mean this charitably and honestly. it's just not the most productive approach, imho. 1623679;1489078967;mircea_popescu;how is the false dichotomy work ? 1623680;1489078984;Framedragger;it's just a simple xor. 1623681;1489079002;Framedragger;you mean reasons for its existence? 1623682;1489079017;Framedragger;psychological reassurance, for one. 1623683;1489079031;mircea_popescu;this is a category, the false dichotomy. it's defined, an actual thing. you know, if you say this is an apple and i ask how's it an apple you show it matches the salient parts of the definition. 1623684;1489079067;mircea_popescu;is there a third alternative ? are the two lobes really the same thing ? what makes it false ? 1623685;1489079091;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623585 << this is one way to exemplify it: repeated amazement that "useful intelligent folks *leave*". 1623686;1489079091;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 01:56 asciilifeform: while we have this thread: i often come back in my head to the question of why folx visit, and then choose to go back to being-sad. 1623687;1489079100;mircea_popescu;there's a difference between an inconvenient dichotomy (a purely political notion) and a false dichotomy, just like there's a difference between a painful triangle lodged up your ass and an escherian construction that may only exist on paper. 1623688;1489079251;Framedragger;you're right, ultimately i'm challenged to answer "what is the middle, then", if i claim the falseness. and i (again) do not have much recourse here. i only have individual anecdata of "intelligent folks doing their own thing", completely disjoint from tmsr. 1623689;1489079279;mircea_popescu;and completely useless in any sense worth the mention. 1623690;1489079311;mircea_popescu;humanity decayed into an apparently botomless pit of liquid shit on the lead wings of three centuries worth of "intelligent" folks doing "their own thing" away from the republic. 1623691;1489079323;mircea_popescu;conceivably a time will come when they've had enough of the gargle. 1623692;1489079339;Framedragger;is there a definition of usefulness that you'd agree to? (note, if it refers to tmsr, it's circular, of course) 1623693;1489079420;mircea_popescu;i'm not sure it can be formulated in a too compact manner. 1623694;1489079439;Framedragger;yeah, i suppose so - it's not a small thing to ask for at any rate... 1623695;1489079474;mircea_popescu;we could go by proxy -- if inequality diminishes from one generation to the next, it can be broadly said that the generation that passed was useless below the point of nullity. was anti-useful. 1623696;1489079638;Framedragger;heh, this is close to entropy (and inequality as 1/entropy) 1623697;1489079685;phf;amazement is not necessarily about "why are useful folks ignore how obviously awesome tmsr is and leave"? 1623698;1489079692;mircea_popescu;i suppose. it'd have to be close to the fundamentals , as it is fundamental. 1623699;1489079699;Framedragger;this only works in aggregate form though, i guess - difficult to assess at individual level. (but maybe that's the point.) 1623700;1489079706;phf;for every theo de raadt where you could argue some kind of "openbsd vs tmsr", there's thousands of potentially useful folks who waste their time with "job" and "side projects", that never amount to anything 1623701;1489079710;mircea_popescu;phf well yes, buyt he gets to define his terms in pursuit of his theory. 1623702;1489079736;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the individual's to assess the individual level, obviously. 1623703;1489079738;phf;in this case amazement could be, "if nothing else, why then ~at the very least~ not tmsr"? 1623704;1489079758;phf;and i will double down on "never amount to anything", even if to the bulk of those people busy activity might feel very meaningful. "i'm watching netflix, it's important to relax!" etc. 1623705;1489079774;mircea_popescu;it could also be "if they think they're so smart, they could at least take a step further than the supposed geniuses of the left WHO DO NOT DARE TRY ARGUE THE POINT, and present their objections." 1623706;1489079790;Framedragger;phf: i agree with the latter. if nothing else - why not; sure. and sure, a *lot* of busy activity reduces to netflix in one way or another. 1623707;1489079828;Framedragger;but not all. however, this is a shitty position to argue for. :( 1623708;1489079835;Framedragger;(i.e., weak.) 1623709;1489079856;Framedragger;so, i dunno, fuck. 1623710;1489079866;mircea_popescu;lol are you enjoying this process yet ? 1623711;1489079866;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which point is it that which 'genius of the left' did not dare to argue ? 1623712;1489079876;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that the left may even be a thing, for instance. 1623713;1489079888;mircea_popescu;heck, no further than last week, that susan sontag is not a moron without remainder 1623714;1489079903;mircea_popescu;there's at least ten thousand hooks they could readily, just as soon as they find their words, engage with. 1623715;1489079935;mircea_popescu;should there be any break in sight off the incessant "premier asstalking and talking in our ass institutions in the world!!1" 1623716;1489079959;asciilifeform;since when does inquisitor engage in anything like serious debate with heretic ? 1623717;1489079985;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, anyone punished newb slavegirl to asstalk ? you take a flexible 1 inch tube, about a meter long, one part goes in her mouth, the other in her ass, she proceeds to talk. 1623718;1489080018;asciilifeform;at last, somebody built asciilifeform's Arse-Mouth-System!11111 1623719;1489080031;mircea_popescu;no, that's when you have one eat out the other, different. 1623720;1489080038;mircea_popescu;or isn't it ? 1623721;1489080082;phf;asciilifeform: pontius pilate 1623722;1489080207;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: always enjoy this! 1623723;1489080208;Framedragger;'nyway, it's hard to argue for my shitty 'point'. i'll just add meanwhile that i too do not think that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623540 was/is waste - some knowledge was gained, and it's indeed not restrained to technical knowledge :) 1623724;1489080208;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 01:39 phf: we did just burn significant amount of humint on reimplementing irc bots and log servers 1623725;1489080247;mircea_popescu;indeed. consider -- how the above point that started this convo would have been to be phrased, had Framedragger NOT engaged in logbuilding ? 1623726;1489080300;mircea_popescu;works if you work it, to borrow a bbism 1623727;1489080494;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform o btw, you familiar with the leftovers of the periodic medieval "debates" with the jews, which kept having to end up in draws because lol. 1623728;1489080505;mircea_popescu;"draws". 1623729;1489080651;Framedragger;re. priorities and (natural) lack of 'global amazing konsensus priority list of shit to do', in my humble and very noob mind they are something like; 'p'; gossipd or partial iteration towards it; invoicing system; << these three'd useful for outside-tmsr interests fo sho; and nfi re. trb, as on the one hand it's supposed to be super important, 1623730;1489080654;Framedragger; but on the other hand it's a lot of work on monolith with unclear long-term gains, especially given alf's point that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623480 1623731;1489080654;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 01:17 asciilifeform: paradoxically a trb-i is light years easier than 'cleaned trb' 1623732;1489080681;Framedragger;<< maybe useful for noobs looking for stuff to help with, but evidently they're not. 1623733;1489080762;*;Framedragger intends to set his mind to some p2p/gossipd stuff come summer, if moon phase aligns with karma etc. 1623734;1489080782;phf;i don't think it was a waste from the whole Man of Knowledge perspective. i derived a lot of value building one, which makes me think so did others when they built theirs. 1623735;1489080918;phf;but i still feel like it was a "waste" in a sense that usually you don't apply same educational methods on battlefield as you do in a lyceum. 1623736;1489081038;mircea_popescu;you don't ? 1623737;1489081080;mircea_popescu;funny, i just an hour ago talked the matter through with a girl training her very first girls, and it turned out on examination that actually... we do. 1623738;1489081112;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623585 <- in my opinion "intelligence" is only part of the story here; the split (between who stays/goes) is made less on intelligence lines and more on allegiance lines basically; another way to say it would be that those leaving have already invested themselves too much into various values that are in contradiction with tmsr, hence they will leave, intelligence has nothing to do with it 1623739;1489081112;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 01:56 asciilifeform: while we have this thread: i often come back in my head to the question of why folx visit, and then choose to go back to being-sad. 1623740;1489081147;diana_coman;I suppose I would say that "because they are not sad enough" but rather quite fine 1623741;1489081175;mircea_popescu;alternatively i could simply declare all that vanity, and propose some people have more of a millstone to break to bits than others. 1623742;1489081208;diana_coman;what is "all that" that you define as vanity? 1623743;1489081212;mircea_popescu;after all what is http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-12#792148 above and beyond self infatuation ? 1623744;1489081212;a111;Logged on 2014-08-12 02:19 TimSwanson: Because that's how normal debates work 1623745;1489081212;diana_coman;declare* 1623746;1489081222;mircea_popescu;diana_coman their alternative investments ; sum total thereof. 1623747;1489081256;Framedragger;i, too, get confused re. demarcation lines of the two: on the one hand it's supposed to be battlefield against hitler, but on the other hand folks agree that it's also a good place to employ experimental stuff one always wanted to try, for doing things. and i agree with the latter. but then when that stuff stumbles on an issue (because it's fucking experimental), people get outraged. 1623748;1489081258;diana_coman;works, yes; I don't find anything against it 1623749;1489081259;Framedragger;que es que tu veux dire? 1623750;1489081288;diana_coman;ftr that "because that's how normal debates work" sounds like....idiocy 1623751;1489081297;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the most pressing matter to my eyes right now is getting ext2/ext4 benchmarked for our specified purpose. 1623752;1489081301;mircea_popescu;a lot actually hangs from it. 1623753;1489081311;Framedragger;for the fs db, eh. hm. 1623754;1489081320;mircea_popescu;diana_coman well, vanity in any light it didn't bring from home... does. 1623755;1489081369;mircea_popescu;Framedragger for the record alf is wrong in the line you quote. he perceives things that way because he proceeds from nonsensical, outright impossible priors. "if i had a clear idea of what i was doing, i could do it in a week" 1623756;1489081370;mircea_popescu;hurr. 1623757;1489081399;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-17#1408758 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623743 << deep fear of judgment entirely on one's own merits 1623758;1489081399;a111;Logged on 2016-02-17 21:16 trinque: how do you know who you are if nobody tells you? 1623759;1489081399;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 17:40 mircea_popescu: after all what is http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-12#792148 above and beyond self infatuation ? 1623760;1489081451;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1623761;1489081466;mircea_popescu;"this examination didn't come with a scoring sheet!! alert!!! how are we to train for the examination111!!!" 1623762;1489081586;phf;mircea_popescu: well, on the battlefield you're the events are unfolding in real time and timing is important. in lyceum you can do things at leisure. in the later case you decide how long you have for the lesson, in the first case the enemy does 1623763;1489081675;mircea_popescu;diana_coman after all, if the alternative investments weren't that, they'd naturally fold right in, becoming logreaders suo modo. in this view the "who are you" question reflects exactly this, "what of your previous investments is actually meaningful ?" 1623764;1489081696;mircea_popescu;by which light we see the failure to answer and the failure to thrive are not at all unrelated, but really the same thing. 1623765;1489081725;mircea_popescu;phf i guess i'm impatient enough this difference does not flower in my case. 1623766;1489081769;phf;huh, i thought it's because you like to play turn based strategies, so the enemy timing is rarely an issue 1623767;1489081787;diana_coman;in principle there could be cases (possibly unknown after all) of intelligent people who READ the log and decided it was not for them; but myeah 1623768;1489081807;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1623769;1489081817;mircea_popescu;well, alf's girl, yes ? quite the mystery! 1623770;1489081843;mircea_popescu;phf ah, that's unrelated. 1623771;1489082009;trinque;diana_coman: kinda depends on whether intelligence describes some internal property or is judged by others externally, which circles right back to the top of the thread. 1623772;1489082198;trinque;politics seeming to be a big driver of the evolution of human intelligence, I don't see how someone who says "but no, the arena is not for me" can be said intelligent. 1623773;1489082229;trinque;which is no slight to alf's lady. maybe she takes part in the republic as part of his house. 1623774;1489082262;mircea_popescu;eh, intelligence is a mess of a concept. 1623775;1489082309;ben_vulpes;taking part in the republic, also a mess of a concept. 1623776;1489082318;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623540 << something something defense in breadth 1623777;1489082318;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 01:39 phf: we did just burn significant amount of humint on reimplementing irc bots and log servers 1623778;1489082321;mircea_popescu;certainly. 1623779;1489082355;trinque;pfff I wrote and released one, and so far we've got one re-use of teh code 1623780;1489082362;mircea_popescu;moreover by design who would know ALL who participate ? nobody. and consequently... 1623781;1489082363;*;ben_vulpes can tick off at least 3 republicans not in chan 1623782;1489082374;mircea_popescu;trinque don't worry, alf's been hawking ssh pipes and so far idem. 1623783;1489082387;trinque;lol, oh right! 1623784;1489082391;*;trinque goes to generate a key 1623785;1489082393;mircea_popescu;utility is not to be judged by consumption! 1623786;1489082421;ben_vulpes;trinque: 3 bots operated by one man are not 'in breadth' 1623787;1489082460;trinque;oh? the maintainer of supybot is in chan? 1623788;1489082466;trinque;or did someone "just want to python" 1623789;1489082469;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: and oh, hey, they all hang off one fleanode. if you want to have crying party, can start with that 1623790;1489082469;mircea_popescu;supybot is still maintained ?! 1623791;1489082496;ben_vulpes;trinque: not to knock what you've built, or aggrandize myself 1623792;1489082520;trinque;I thought you *had* used the thing 1623793;1489082529;trinque;at any rate, unimportant 1623794;1489082531;ben_vulpes;well now i've lost the frame 1623795;1489082538;mircea_popescu;yeah what are you talking about ? 1623796;1489082549;*;mircea_popescu can't quite map the 3 bots 1 man thing. who ? 1623797;1489082562;*;asciilifeform utterly lost in this log 1623798;1489082634;mircea_popescu;that's because you stepped away just as the firehose was going towards 30 lines/minute. you'll be stuck catching up for hours now. 1623799;1489082644;ben_vulpes;unimportant, like trinque said 1623800;1489082645;trinque;I took a shot at folks present for imitating me and spinning up their own bot rather than writing patches for the only bot in a V tree, but apparently it was buckshot 1623801;1489082693;ben_vulpes;aaah 1623802;1489082713;mircea_popescu;i thought eg candy used your what's it called. 1623803;1489082755;trinque;yeh ben_vulpes used it 1623804;1489082757;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: has an html wrapper around his irc bouncer, phf's is custom (afaik), no idea what jhvh1 and lobbes run 1623805;1489082761;phf;trinque: a111 was running before ircbot/logbot, where's all the lisp bots since (both of ben_vulpes's bots) are using it 1623806;1489082763;trinque;phf also used pieces 1623807;1489082764;ben_vulpes;i suspect a pythong? 1623808;1489082783;trinque;phf actually gave me snippets at first to start with 1623809;1489082786;mircea_popescu;well what other bots ? lobbes ' is older than deedbot iirc. you got 100% of bots made after release, can't complain. 1623810;1489082800;Framedragger;trinque: the naked truth of it is, i have little experience with lisp, of which "shipped to production" amounts to zero. wanted a bot. wrote modules for sopelbot which turns out to be reliable enough. :) 1623811;1489082809;mircea_popescu;phf you know it's whereas not where's. 1623812;1489082856;phf;yeesh 1623813;1489082867;mircea_popescu;anyway, really, nothing wrong with code heterogenity. if guy wants to write boit out of used dildos, what's anyone's loss. 1623814;1489082881;phf;!#s from:phf "where's" 1623815;1489082881;a111;48 results for "from:phf \"where's\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aphf%20%22where%27s%22 1623816;1489082904;trinque;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsKJvxhIQAAXhXo.jpg << relevant 1623817;1489082904;asciilifeform;one of the wins from 'N redundant bots' is that nobody has to rely/build on the one made from used dildo 1623818;1489082908;mircea_popescu;phf aha. screaming phf fingerprint. gotta be careful with that, you know. that's how the smart secretary caught her boss in carambolages. 1623819;1489082968;ben_vulpes;the other point i didn't get to make is that i dont' buy the 'personal failing' line; redundancy uber alles 1623820;1489082995;mircea_popescu;"but ben_vulpes someone here already fucked a girl, why would you fuck any other ones." 1623821;1489083052;asciilifeform;friend: 'i got you a book for your bday' -- chukcha: 'i already HAVE a book' 1623822;1489083062;mircea_popescu;aha 1623823;1489083063;trinque;completely nonsensical comparison 1623824;1489083066;phf;ben_vulpes: if a111 got moved to sbcl earlier, the redundancy conversation would not have happened, and people happily would be writing trb code instead 1623825;1489083072;trinque;^ 1623826;1489083092;mircea_popescu;trinque no, it has its merits. of course if you're discussing X topic there will be a THE book, also, this isn't arguing against that. 1623827;1489083114;mircea_popescu;phf no fucking way ? 1623828;1489083120;trinque;I don't see that python or any of its kind have any future 1623829;1489083127;ben_vulpes;defense in breadth. 1623830;1489083127;trinque;it's a steaming mess of badly written C 1623831;1489083129;mircea_popescu;i am pretty confident this discussion would have occured with different examples. 1623832;1489083150;trinque;ben_vulpes: how the hell am I defending myself by using as many filthy whores as possible? 1623833;1489083169;ben_vulpes;phf: and then there would be only one logger, which is not in my book the best of worlds. 1623834;1489083180;asciilifeform;trinque has a mega-point, and unfortunately it applies to ~all of our tooling. 1623835;1489083185;trinque;aha. 1623836;1489083192;mircea_popescu;trinque just like me. 1623837;1489083206;ben_vulpes;trinque: has nothing to do with language choice. 1623838;1489083208;trinque;ben_vulpes: people could run as many loggers as they want, written in the simplest manner, and then moved on with our lives 1623839;1489083214;trinque;you're talking past the point 1623840;1489083237;ben_vulpes;well i miss the point then, try it like i'm five? 1623841;1489083238;asciilifeform;gotta underscore trinque's observation, PYTHON IS NOT A LANGUAGE, it is a specific proggy, maintained by specific lamers 1623842;1489083248;asciilifeform;there aren't, in any meaningful sense, multiple implementations. 1623843;1489083255;mircea_popescu;ah, that. 1623844;1489083263;asciilifeform;phf's 'this commonlisptron suxxx, i'ma use another' won't work in pythonistan. 1623845;1489083266;trinque;it's a massive pile of gendercommmit and hax 1623846;1489083273;mircea_popescu;meanwhile i ended up with a python dependency via blender ;/ i dun think it's going anywhere. 1623847;1489083282;mircea_popescu;2.8 or w/e we ended up freezing. 1623848;1489083288;trinque;at least there you use the outputs and don't run the toolchain all day eh? 1623849;1489083317;mircea_popescu;i dunno, it does some exporting gnarl. diana_coman published a recipe, i can dig it up if you wish 1623850;1489083318;asciilifeform;and incidentally freezing also doesn't solve the problem -- there is no written standard, and if there were, it would fill a room and be quite unreadable 1623851;1489083328;asciilifeform;standard cannot be a bolt-on. 1623852;1489083331;trinque;not only is python not a language, it was conceived by people who had OPPOSED political views to the republic 1623853;1489083350;trinque;it is born of some document the dutchie wrote about "programmig is 4 everybody!" 1623854;1489083353;mircea_popescu;yeah but i know of no alternate solution capable of taking blender items and spitting them into eulora. 1623855;1489083368;trinque;in the absense of alternative it's totally reasonable 1623856;1489083380;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is problematic, given http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1606950 1623857;1489083380;a111;Logged on 2017-01-26 02:33 mircea_popescu: this wedge will not prevail. i'll do without any milk, forever. 1623858;1489083408;mircea_popescu;this being a phenomenal case of "everybody" -- game graphic artists are a) some of the least literate dogs in carnation and b) some of the people with the most complex needs from computers. WAY ahead "computer engineers" of the silicon valley ilk, aka webtards. 1623859;1489083409;asciilifeform;incidentally it is how i ended up with a python proggy (phuctor frontend) 1623860;1489083417;asciilifeform;there was gpg parse library. 1623861;1489083439;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hey, client is for teh players not for me. 1623862;1489083493;asciilifeform;^ is how programmers even sleep at night 1623863;1489083501;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1623864;1489083505;asciilifeform;'this crud is for the (l)users, not me, wtf' 1623865;1489083518;mircea_popescu;what'd you have me do, you know ? 1623866;1489083559;mircea_popescu;what is the republican scripting language for idiots (tm) ? 1623867;1489083606;ben_vulpes;i have never understood what 'scripting language' was 1623868;1489083612;trinque;scheme was pretty good for gimp iirc 1623869;1489083621;mircea_popescu;consider the case at hand. artist must produce some binary files. 1623870;1489083669;mircea_popescu;trinque understand : none of these folks had any idea of the mathematical representation subiacent any geometric render. to their eyes, the computer cheats when what they thought alligned planes turn out to have holes between. 1623871;1489083679;mircea_popescu;scheme isn't happening. 1623872;1489083715;mircea_popescu;NO IDEA whatsoever of that most fundamental concept of analysis, which is to say "i can write chicken scribblings down and answer FOR A FACTY whether point q is equal to point p" 1623873;1489083750;mircea_popescu;i have no clue how they escaped highschool, intellectually speaking. but here they be. 1623874;1489083785;trinque;ben_vulpes makes an excellent point elsewhere, should restate here 1623875;1489083819;trinque;I said to him "students may learn swordplay but may not tell us the fork in their hands is a sword" 1623876;1489083892;ben_vulpes;oh i'm up 1623877;1489083921;*;mircea_popescu is waiting patiently. 1623878;1489083945;ben_vulpes;trinque sez, 'running around with phorkz not defense in breadth' 1623879;1489083952;ben_vulpes;'some regiments may be cut to ribbons and run on contact, but that does not make them useless' 1623880;1489083989;mircea_popescu;anyone familiar with the story of the war in afghanistan ? 1623881;1489083995;mircea_popescu;the 1800s british ones i mean. 1623882;1489084007;ben_vulpes;not i 1623883;1489084041;mircea_popescu;well, the "great race" aha this run to the pacific by russia and the uk settled down eventually with the brits holding india and the russians holding siberia. afghanistan-buffer state. 1623884;1489084058;mircea_popescu;at some point lytter i think it was decided the afghanis are befallen under russian spell and invaded. 1623885;1489084075;mircea_popescu;they had to burn the crops, kill the cows, tear villages stone from stone. losses -- immense, on both sides. 1623886;1489084109;mircea_popescu;it was the beginning of the end of the british colonial empire. it crashed, where empires come to day, in that god forsaken asshole of the world where fork-bearing regiments are cut to shreds and don't run off on contact. or at all. 1623887;1489084268;trinque;I can see it. 1623888;1489084272;phf;"you've a great game, a noble game, before you" 1623889;1489084342;ben_vulpes;onlooker: close the tab and read the logs proper 1623890;1489084348;ben_vulpes;or grow up and get a bouncer 1623891;1489084375;ben_vulpes;heh 1623892;1489084388;ben_vulpes;relatedly, from #elsewhere, "dude shows up with a thousand farmers on camels. what, tell him to fuck off?" 1623893;1489084407;*;ben_vulpes bbl 1623894;1489084417;mircea_popescu;o.O 1623895;1489084421;mircea_popescu;is he gone to service the camels ? 1623896;1489085637;trinque;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VocAb/?raw=true 1623897;1489085779;asciilifeform;trinque: you're in 1623898;1489085791;asciilifeform;lemme know if worx 1623899;1489085806;trinque;will do, I'll set up autossh in just a bit 1623900;1489085808;trinque;ty 1623901;1489086250;asciilifeform;trinque et al : the 1 thing that still direly needs testing re 'wires' is for somebody to bring up a fresh node entirely via same 1623902;1489086369;phf;(if nobody else steps up, i'm going to bring one up in a day or two) 1623903;1489090833;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588180 << i won't have time in the nearest future, but for anyone who may be looking into symlinks, this may be useful: https://lwn.net/Articles/650786/ 1623904;1489090833;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 06:41 mircea_popescu: this way you don't actually have to ~index~ anything, if you wish to see where txn 1234567890 was included in a block, you go to /12/34/56/7890 which points to block x 1623905;1489090860;Framedragger;1. mind PATH_MAX (4096 chars); 2. maximum number of symlinks in single path: 40 (hard limit). 1623906;1489090872;mircea_popescu;ahaha what. 1623907;1489090879;Framedragger;(seems to have been *8* in old kernels!) 1623908;1489090880;mircea_popescu;WHO THE FUCK THINKS LIKE T?HIS 1623909;1489090903;Framedragger;well there ya go. :) 1623910;1489090905;mircea_popescu;something's amiss, im sure i have directories with more than 40 symlionks 1623911;1489090974;Framedragger;oh wait, i phrased this incorrectly while at the same time horribly mis-reading: sorry, this is about max depth of path composed of symlinks. 1623912;1489091007;Framedragger;for a minute i thought (don't know why) that what is *additionally* needed is the capability to have paths of /symlinks/to/symlinks/. 1623913;1489091041;mircea_popescu;ah. no, that is correctly within the limit, as designed we'd have under 8 anyway 1623914;1489091042;Framedragger;instead, it's "just" a matter of having a however-deep directory tree with symlinks as the leaves. 1623915;1489091063;Framedragger;ya, ok. 1623916;1489091434;asciilifeform;the more worrisome bit is that there is NO write aggregation (iirc i mentioned this before) 1623917;1489091448;asciilifeform;and lack of aggregation is the reason the old shitdb is slow in the 1st place 1623918;1489091522;asciilifeform;(ext4 , asked to write 10,000 files/symlinks, will do the journal dance ~each~ time, rather than once-at-the-end) 1623919;1489091556;asciilifeform;there is no ready way to make it aware of 'these N writes are to happen at-once' 1623920;1489091587;asciilifeform;and incidentally this will also change the semantics of the block-saver, unless somehow kludged around (e.g. via locking) 1623921;1489091691;mircea_popescu;you repeat halfway of the discussion, "here is what i said lalala i can't hear anyone" 1623922;1489091703;mircea_popescu;linking would be better than this. having digested what was said better still. 1623923;1489091746;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aite, meanwhile i found the prev thread: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-26#1618705 1623924;1489091746;a111;Logged on 2017-02-26 19:27 mircea_popescu: the other problem is that a good db fix is a very large project, because bitcoin is written insanely. and our fs db isn't moving, last i heard a month ago someone was going to try and profile an extx 1623925;1489091782;mircea_popescu;a large part of the "not writing properly" can actually be fixed via configs for the fs, rather than using the "middle of the road" stuff shipped with eg ubuntu. 1623926;1489091798;shinohai;asciilifeform: still getting bad signature when trying to verify your patchset ... (imported your key from deedbot) 1623927;1489091806;mircea_popescu;how large a part is an open question, but it obviously comes after establishing whether the would-be airplane is even larger than a breadbox in the first place 1623928;1489091814;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i did go and sift through the docs, found 0 mention of write aggregation as an option 1623929;1489091821;asciilifeform;later tonight, will begin reading the actual src 1623930;1489091826;asciilifeform;expect it to take a while. 1623931;1489091842;mircea_popescu;not as such, no. but you can wedge it in through, eg, making it commit in batches 1623932;1489091857;mircea_popescu;or who knows how the fuck else -- rewriting the committer, even. 1623933;1489091892;mircea_popescu;in short this problem isn't yet salient. 1623934;1489091901;asciilifeform;if you gotta actually break compatibility with ext4 and write new kernelspace driver -- may as well design proper (b-tree) fs for trb. 1623935;1489091910;mircea_popescu;mebbe. 1623936;1489091926;asciilifeform;using traditional fs exposes you to 10,000s of lines of ???. 1623937;1489091970;mircea_popescu;there's always that. 1623938;1489092047;asciilifeform;shinohai: post the patch , the key, and the signature plox 1623939;1489092071;asciilifeform;shinohai: bitwise, the way you got'em, no browser cut'n'paste crapolade . 1623940;1489092158;Framedragger;asciilifeform: on top of 'transactions', postgres has 'checkpoint' parameter. but you probably won't like it because of the whole 'not turning off fsync' thing 1623941;1489092188;Framedragger;but i do hope you're doing the former, i mean i assumed so. that's the lowest-hanging fruit re. 'how do i do batch writes to db' 1623942;1489092197;shinohai;Actually lemme check one more thing before I do ...... 1623943;1489092219;Framedragger;(and if you now say 'db is lost cause anyway' while not linking to code/config *again*, i'll grit teeth angrily) 1623944;1489092223;asciilifeform;Framedragger: we had this thread 1623945;1489092228;Framedragger;myeah 1623946;1489092248;Framedragger;but with transactions, you can be sure that once it returns, it will have written to disk. fsync can still be on. (iirc). 1623947;1489092275;Framedragger;(but maybe you covered that, too, and i forgot in logs.) 1623948;1489092275;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat 1623949;1489092741;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: re. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-22#1588180 , for my elucidation, so would the symlinks just point to a particular 1MB block file? 1623950;1489092741;a111;Logged on 2016-12-22 06:41 mircea_popescu: this way you don't actually have to ~index~ anything, if you wish to see where txn 1234567890 was included in a block, you go to /12/34/56/7890 which points to block x 1623951;1489092764;mircea_popescu;yes. 1623952;1489092788;Framedragger;would this be performant enough even theoretically, given no way to use offsets? 1623953;1489092791;mircea_popescu;you could use them to connect transactions to blocks, addresses to blocks, whatever index you're trying to keep 1623954;1489092801;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry ? 1623955;1489092804;Framedragger;right, that part is cool. 1623956;1489092810;mircea_popescu;you have to load the block anyway. 1623957;1489092821;mircea_popescu;and if fixed widths, you would actually "use" offsets in the sense of making files. 1623958;1489092823;Framedragger;hmh right, right. no way around it, i guess. 1623959;1489092846;Framedragger;yeah, okay; as long as it's not fixed-width trb-i, no way around this. 1623960;1489092854;mircea_popescu;nothing generally forces you to keep a block other than a collection of transaction-files, for instance. the exact implementation is up in the air for exactly such reason\ 1623961;1489092866;mircea_popescu;we don't really understand what we're designing against 1623962;1489092900;Framedragger;jolly lil' project. 1623963;1489093504;Framedragger;https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=771573 << dude runs into weird cups printing issue which creates millions of symlinks in /tmp as side effect (...). side effect of *that* (well, presumably that) is system fails to boot. because of course. 1623964;1489093580;Framedragger;also, """But I appear to have a lingering effect that seems to have started from the time my /tmp directory had the millions of files in it. 1623965;1489093581;Framedragger;Take a look at this: 1623966;1489093584;Framedragger;# cd /tmp 1623967;1489093584;Framedragger;# time ls 1623968;1489093584;Framedragger;real 0m0.069s user 0m0.000s sys 0m0.068s 1623969;1489093584;Framedragger;# echo 3 >/proc/sys/vm/drop_caches 1623970;1489093584;Framedragger;# time ls real 0m15.146s""" 1623971;1489094496;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623846 <-- fwiw the only way I can see this dependency on Python going anywhere would be if someone makes a sane replacement basically - however, artists need it but won't do it and otherwise people who are able to do it have a huge list of *other* things that need to be done as far as I can see; moreover (and as usual already), the whole steaming pile is deep so I can't even say how much one 1623972;1489094496;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 18:14 mircea_popescu: meanwhile i ended up with a python dependency via blender ;/ i dun think it's going anywhere. 1623973;1489094497;diana_coman;needs to reimplement to get out on the other side really (I did NOT dig deep into Blender but I wouldn't be surprised if it were terribly bloated at the very least) 1623974;1489094568;mircea_popescu;afaik blender is half python. 1623975;1489094589;mircea_popescu;Framedragger yes, the fs is a major pile of dubious, as asciilifeform well points out. 1623976;1489094678;diana_coman;myeah, sort-of-half-python; jumatate de python schiop calare pe jumatate de c olog 1623977;1489094721;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623960 << this contains a world of pain, nao anyone can make you do 3,000 fs accesses just by asking for a block 1623978;1489094721;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 20:54 mircea_popescu: nothing generally forces you to keep a block other than a collection of transaction-files, for instance. the exact implementation is up in the air for exactly such reason\ 1623979;1489094730;mircea_popescu;lol 1623980;1489094765;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, tradeoffs. he wants to store the block in parts, he wants to store it whole, what can i say 1623981;1489094773;mircea_popescu;can't say jack shit without seeing some numbers. 1623982;1489095011;ben_vulpes;hey trinque didja hear that one about cups and the symlinks? 1623983;1489095017;trinque;pls no 1623984;1489095026;ben_vulpes;heh heh heh 1623985;1489095205;phf;ben_vulpes: inlining svg works, but now it throws errors about javascript. please advise. 1623986;1489095239;ben_vulpes;fuck, buddy 1623987;1489095288;ben_vulpes;well how am i supposed to advise without being able to repro? 1623988;1489095329;ben_vulpes;(not that the barf in question makes any goddamn sense in the first place...) 1623989;1489095597;mircea_popescu;"please advice!" "fuckbuddy." 1623990;1489095620;ben_vulpes;no dick sucky, no javascripty 1623991;1489095643;mircea_popescu;this is like the superlative of "what do i do now ?" "drink." 1623992;1489095806;deedbot;http://danielpbarron.com/2017/the-unreasonable-update/ << Daniel P. Barron - The Unreasonable Update 1623993;1489096898;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR1700/RR1751/RAND_RR1751.pdf >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/JUw3R/?raw=true 1623994;1489098248;mircea_popescu;kinda lost me in the first paragraph. 1623995;1489098630;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/94ar2/?raw=true << the possibly interesting bit 1623996;1489098641;asciilifeform;(the 'anonymized' vendor is, most likely, vupen) 1623997;1489098655;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat 1623998;1489098702;mircea_popescu;the quality of service in this restaurant is unparalleled. but yes, vupen. 1623999;1489102633;Framedragger;for symlink fs testers (or maybe selfnote for later): note that if you allow for sufficient folder tree depth, the "1000s of symlinks per dir" won't realistically happen when storing, say, bitcoin transaction hashes. the latter have 256 bits => 64 hex chars. if you allow for depth of 8 where last level (8) is symlink itself, you get 32 bits per folder level. 1624000;1489102641;Framedragger; assuming equally distributed transaction hashspace, if you want your tree to fill up with 1000 nodes on average per given depth, you'd be storing 10^24 transactions. but this assumes that every folder depth gets assigned equal number of bits to represent, of course. 1624001;1489102667;Framedragger;^ the above is plain-obvious, but just ftr. 1624002;1489102667;Framedragger;/me probably off till (maybe much) later 1624003;1489103929;*;BingoBoingo enjoys reading day of Republic fucking filesystems and CIA doing intensive research into possibility of unfucking 1624004;1489103971;mircea_popescu;pretty sure this was in teh prev pass discussing this 1624005;1489109174;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A81D208D3F586D37BB5B01618701760E7ECB09D0E3EE181083CEB4E8C0A52C75 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...1973 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '162.217.146.236 (ssh-rsa key from 162.217.146.236 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown US NY) 1624006;1489109175;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A81D208D3F586D37BB5B01618701760E7ECB09D0E3EE181083CEB4E8C0A52C75 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1421...9607 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '162.217.146.236 (ssh-rsa key from 162.217.146.236 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown US NY) 1624007;1489109727;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B38595546DF746890308952213DCBF7C001A148E9135B0D939C136F490B9A052 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1512...7289 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '147.102.194.35 (ssh-rsa key from 147.102.194.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (het25.physics.ntua.gr. GR I) 1624008;1489109727;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B38595546DF746890308952213DCBF7C001A148E9135B0D939C136F490B9A052 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...2027 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '147.102.194.35 (ssh-rsa key from 147.102.194.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (het25.physics.ntua.gr. GR I) 1624009;1489109727;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A18F3D16E5DE757C10A2285BF02B0FFE865B3ABBB5B403352A60E6B74963AC4E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1619...8093 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.253.213.229 (ssh-rsa key from 77.253.213.229 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (77-253-213-229.static.ip.netia.com.pl. PL MZ) 1624010;1489109727;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A18F3D16E5DE757C10A2285BF02B0FFE865B3ABBB5B403352A60E6B74963AC4E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1491...4003 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.253.213.229 (ssh-rsa key from 77.253.213.229 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (77-253-213-229.static.ip.netia.com.pl. PL MZ) 1624011;1489110289;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0DA4CE74B76C9C061A2B19304702C27363CEC8E2D03C0DE8F263A311ABE07BA0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1766...1429 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.14.42 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.14.42 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (www.docteurbeaute.com. FR) 1624012;1489110289;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0DA4CE74B76C9C061A2B19304702C27363CEC8E2D03C0DE8F263A311ABE07BA0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1451...4147 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.14.42 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.14.42 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (www.docteurbeaute.com. FR) 1624013;1489111199;shinohai;pobrecito gribble disconnects again 1624014;1489114433;asciilifeform;!~later tell phf https://github.com/hanshuebner/vlm << sent in by a reader. somehow this has been just sitting there since '09, without my noticing 1624015;1489114433;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1624016;1489114634;asciilifeform;phf: https://github.com/hanshuebner/vlm/blob/master/c-emulator/emulator.c looks like enough to build that fpga ivory... 1624017;1489114714;Framedragger;re. fs nodes, couldn't sleep + not sure if this makes sense, so just throwing these out - barebones super simplistic (function is `n_objects_to_store ^ 1 / folder_depth`) plots showing expected average number of nodes per folder (assumptions are no bias in hashspace and also equal share of hash bits per folder level) - it may not be intuitive how low the averages are until you look: 1624018;1489114725;Framedragger;1) http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph1.png - up till 100bn objects (to compare, current number of bitcoin transactions ~= 0.2bn) 1624019;1489114725;Framedragger;2) http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph1.png - up till 10**24 (which is when avg number of nodes per folder reaches 1000 for total depth of 8) 1624020;1489114754;Framedragger;(really kindergarten level simple but wanted to see this myself, could be useful for reference - unless it's incorrect..) 1624021;1489114787;asciilifeform;same link?? 1624022;1489114803;Framedragger;d'oh! thanks. 1624023;1489114803;Framedragger;2) http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph2.png 1624024;1489115061;Framedragger;<< (obviously these'd be more useful with actual empirical numbers of average/median seek times, writes, seek/write as things get congested, etc.) 1624025;1489115698;Framedragger;(deeper path => slower traversal but fewer nodes per folder, up to the point where e.g. 'fast symlinks' can be used by ext4 (http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/fs/ext4/inode.c#L148) - maybe; etc.) 1624026;1489115721;Framedragger;..and so she goes, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-politics-idUSKBN16H066 1624027;1489115927;BingoBoingo;lulz http://www.returnofkings.com/116375/le-favori-de-lelection-presidentielle-francaise-cette-couille-molle-marie-a-une-femme-de-25-ans-son-ainee 1624028;1489116312;asciilifeform;https://github.com/hanshuebner/vlm/blob/master/admin/Beta-test-customers.text << lenat!!! 1624029;1489116766;trinque;BingoBoingo: the guy looks miserable 1624030;1489116776;trinque;sandpaper on the cock will do that. 1624031;1489116787;BingoBoingo;Happens 1624032;1489116817;trinque;Le mariage de Macron est la publicité parfaite pour un taux de natalité non existant en France << l0l 1624033;1489117052;asciilifeform;from 'beta' list -- r.v. guha, turns out, is http://www.guha.com/cv.html , also cyc 1624034;1489117074;asciilifeform;(now absorbed, apparently, into google) 1624035;1489117117;asciilifeform;and apparently responsible singlehandedly , or so himself claims, for one of the more infamous fake wotrons. 1624036;1489117120;asciilifeform;'epinions' 1624037;1489117153;asciilifeform;and for the existence of rdf. motherfucker. 1624038;1489117265;*;trinque suffered under an RDF believer for about 4 years 1624039;1489117288;asciilifeform;https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/BebxJD27sao << ancient lulz found when trying to find what the fuck 'mcc' was 1624040;1489117345;asciilifeform;apparently, long-gone 'Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corporation' in austin, tx. 1624041;1489117405;mircea_popescu;is there such a thing as an indian who isn't a total shitbag ? 1624042;1489117414;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i know a handful 1624043;1489117475;asciilifeform;holy fuck how can something the size of mcc vanish without ANY trace 1624044;1489117490;asciilifeform;not so much as a broken shard of babylonian clay pot. 1624045;1489117514;mircea_popescu;it helps if it exists in the first place. 1624046;1489117515;asciilifeform;'MCC was part of the Artificial Intelligence boom of the 1980s, reportedly the single largest customer of both Symbolics and Lisp Machines, Inc. (and like Symbolics, was one of the first companies to register a .com domain). ' << aaaah apparently THAT's how. 1624047;1489117542;mircea_popescu;heh 1624048;1489117576;mircea_popescu;Framedragger i don't get it, you graphed some functions ? or ? 1624049;1489117591;asciilifeform;apparently was a consortium of mainframe makers, serious r&d corps, etc., worked on cad. utterly thermonuked by lisp winter and the microshitization of computing. 1624050;1489117662;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: basically, and that's strictly it - because i couldn't intuitively wrap my head around the fact that average number of nodes per specific folder would be _really_ low if depth is say more than 3. still weird in my head, but yeah. 1624051;1489117679;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6zrqi/?raw=true << re mcc, of archaeological interest. 1624052;1489117742;mircea_popescu;a ok. 1624053;1489117802;asciilifeform;'For a long while I was doing research in software productivity. We began asking, ‘What is wrong? And why is it so difficult? Why is it so costly? What is complexity?’ It led me to interesting research, but nothing happened. We did not discover how to formulate or mathematically express the idea of program complexity. Not program complexity in the sense of algorithmic complexity—NP-complete problems and all that jazz—but the 1624054;1489117803;asciilifeform;complexity of programming.' 1624055;1489117808;mircea_popescu;dude these women presidents aren't doing so well after all ? brazil, korea... who has one left ? impeach the queen ? 1624056;1489117911;mircea_popescu;obviously argentina's ex whore is going to jail as well... 1624057;1489118042;asciilifeform;https://stallman.org/articles/texas.html << further lulz re rms guest lecture at mcc. 1624058;1489118047;asciilifeform;(historical) 1624059;1489118057;asciilifeform;featuring 'nasal plant sex' 1624060;1489118472;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624012 >> 'La Socité Francaise de Médecine Morphologique et Anti-Age ' << lelzz 1624061;1489118472;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 01:44 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0DA4CE74B76C9C061A2B19304702C27363CEC8E2D03C0DE8F263A311ABE07BA0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1451...4147 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '92.243.14.42 (ssh-rsa key from 92.243.14.42 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (www.docteurbeaute.com. FR) 1624062;1489118550;mircea_popescu;you'd be surprised how many people are fixated on this age business. 1624063;1489118552;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624006 >> 'Sports Memorabilia & Promotional Products' >> 'Sport It, Inc.', some nowhere, usa. spamola, and diddleddebian. 1624064;1489118552;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 01:26 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A81D208D3F586D37BB5B01618701760E7ECB09D0E3EE181083CEB4E8C0A52C75 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1421...9607 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '162.217.146.236 (ssh-rsa key from 162.217.146.236 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown US NY) 1624065;1489119146;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/us-sportscaster-tout-south-korean-victory-over-china-the-republic-of-in-world-baseball-classic-ignores-actual-losses-by-peoples-republic/ << Qntra - US Sportscaster Tout South Korean Victory Over China (The Republic of) in World Baseball Classic, Ignores Actual Losses By People's Republic 1624066;1489119156;BingoBoingo;^ Some idiot said Qntra was a "Pro-China" rag 1624067;1489119340;mircea_popescu;oh it isn't ? 1624068;1489119362;mircea_popescu;(he means republic of china, yes, not the communist fake state ?) 1624069;1489119388;asciilifeform;y'mean usg's 'unsinkable carrier' ? 1624070;1489119418;mircea_popescu;lel. 1624071;1489119449;asciilifeform;( their actual sales pitch from the period!11 ) 1624072;1489119464;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624042 << i don't mean, privately. i mean a public indian. 1624073;1489119464;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 03:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i know a handful 1624074;1489119477;asciilifeform;0 1624075;1489119510;mircea_popescu;sad testament for the cockroach race. 1624076;1489119634;BingoBoingo; (he means republic of china, yes, not the communist fake state ?) << Well they both lost 1624077;1489119726;mod6;alf was it mentioned that some of these recent submission need regrinding? 1624078;1489119736;mod6;*submission(s) 1624079;1489119762;asciilifeform;mod6: anything at all might need regrinding, depending on your particular tree 1624080;1489119775;asciilifeform;mod6: had something more specific in mind ? 1624081;1489119822;mod6;asciilifeform_blackhole_odometer.vpatch, asciilifeform_blocktimer.vpatch, and asciilifeform_goodbye_pingers_fixed.vpatch all have the same input hash. 1624082;1489119831;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in ai news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/4277bdf9e99091bd0846649df6201385/tumblr_o6dkfiaXG61umjwnoo1_400.gif 1624083;1489119836;asciilifeform;goodbye_pingers is to be shitburied 1624084;1489119838;mod6;which is fine, if you only use one of the three above, but not good if you try to use >1 of them. 1624085;1489119838;asciilifeform;imho. 1624086;1489119843;asciilifeform;it achieves 0. 1624087;1489119846;mod6;ah, ok. 1624088;1489119849;asciilifeform;(at most 0 !) 1624089;1489119903;asciilifeform;blackhole odometer is probably of ~very~ limited interest to folx who aren't asciilifeform 1624090;1489119947;asciilifeform;'block timer' is obsoleted by blackhole odometer. 1624091;1489119959;asciilifeform;so we're left with null set. 1624092;1489119966;mod6;no worries. shinohai was building, asked me to double check just to be sure. thought it was worth the mention to future spelunkers. 1624093;1489119974;asciilifeform;mod6: you can safely consign these to 'experimental tree' or wherever. 1624094;1489119978;asciilifeform;same place shiva lives. 1624095;1489120005;asciilifeform;'poorly conceived crackpotteries' or what it was mircea_popescu called'em. 1624096;1489120024;mod6;no sweat. just putting up a signpost for future spelunkers. 1624097;1489120165;mod6;in the spirit of experimentation, it makes sense that one experiment would not necessairly contain the same changes as a different experiment. 1624098;1489120179;mod6;and would have the same input hashes. 1624099;1489120185;asciilifeform;aha 1624100;1489120504;mircea_popescu;aaand in other kid-and-his-chemiferous-garage news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/7c9c5e795cd0594b0b4ebb887243e652/tumblr_oetvs7QpQd1u4w44io1_500.gif 1624101;1489120542;mircea_popescu;http://68.media.tumblr.com/5fc1176a864c9f578d1c17d01d6fb52e/tumblr_oetvs7QpQd1u4w44io4_500.gif etc 1624102;1489120631;shinohai;ghehehehe 1624103;1489120781;mod6;a cautionary note to anyone who is going to use my V to press with wires_rev1 (http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000251.html), be sure to name the seal as such or it won't get picked up in the flow (in the new, forthcoming version 99994) as such: asciilifeform_wires_rev1.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig 1624104;1489120820;trinque;yar, had to rename it 1624105;1489120890;trinque;mod6: the thing should really have one of those google AIs to figure out which goes with which 1624106;1489120896;trinque;I'm sure they have a cloud API for that 1624107;1489120901;shinohai;lel 1624108;1489120989;mod6;hah 1624109;1489121036;BingoBoingo;AV - Artificial Veh 1624110;1489122000;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BD8C9C1ADBE5ED9416A31D88FB9C1A1090230FACD87D55B9363507BAB92E0559 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1497...5393 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.137.160.9 (ssh-rsa key from 78.137.160.9 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (ip-78-137-160-9.dedi.digiweb.ie. IE L) 1624111;1489122000;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BD8C9C1ADBE5ED9416A31D88FB9C1A1090230FACD87D55B9363507BAB92E0559 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1709...1097 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.137.160.9 (ssh-rsa key from 78.137.160.9 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (ip-78-137-160-9.dedi.digiweb.ie. IE L) 1624112;1489122527;lobbes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623875 << I agree and will admit that my bot and log-o-tron are/were largely forged from used dildos I found laying in the forest. I also don't pretend that they are anything but 1624113;1489122527;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 18:23 trinque: I said to him "students may learn swordplay but may not tell us the fork in their hands is a sword" 1624114;1489122530;lobbes;I'm still in the process of climbing out of the primordial soup, so to speak. 'had to start somewhere, etc'; Though I realize I will need to flamethrow my own creations soon enough and rebuild once I 'evolve' a bit more. But all in due time 1624115;1489122573;trinque;cool, later in the thread I'm convinced the whole thing is reasonable 1624116;1489122580;trinque;:p 1624117;1489122814;lobbes;sure, but from what I can observe, your own deedbot (and others' log-o-trons) appear to operate in a more sane manner. I guess I'm just saying I have much to learn 1624118;1489122855;trinque;happy to help when you feel like trying it out. 1624119;1489122918;trinque;in fact, I'll go ahead and get the logbot-service thing released now, since it's been running the wot & voicing for maybe a month now 1624120;1489122972;ben_vulpes;> forged from used dildos 1624121;1489122990;lobbes;trinque: ah thank you! 1624122;1489123005;ben_vulpes;HAVE YE VISITED MOUNT DILDO FORGE, NEWCOMER? 1624123;1489123024;lobbes;l0l 1624124;1489129346;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624027 <<< bwhaha "couille molle" 1624125;1489129346;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 03:18 BingoBoingo: lulz http://www.returnofkings.com/116375/le-favori-de-lelection-presidentielle-francaise-cette-couille-molle-marie-a-une-femme-de-25-ans-son-ainee 1624126;1489142080;phf;asciilifeform: there's several sources of vlm floating around, some of them improved upon by independent hackers (in the direct meaning of the word improve) 1624127;1489142379;phf;asciilifeform: if you spent time with it though, you'll realize that it's an assembly dump of the original emulator written for alpha, and the "emulator" part is actually a combination of c and lisp necessary to ~translate original alpha assembly into portable-ish c~ 1624128;1489142430;phf;i've spent some time with it before, improving mac os support, and working out crash issues 1624129;1489142601;phf;i don't quite remember, what goes where, but i'm pretty sure the emulator.c that you linked is a frankenstein that primarily emulates alpha, though it has some signifcant knowledge about what the alpha emulator does, so it's not quite qemu, but something a lot scarrier 1624130;1489142892;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/park-geun-hye-impeachment-upheld-by-south-korean-court-shes-out-of-there/ << Qntra - Park Geun-hye Impeachment Upheld By South Korean Court – She's Out Of There 1624131;1489143182;phf;https://github.com/hanshuebner/vlm/blob/master/alpha-emulator/ifunlist.as#L52 e.g. lisp machine instruction DoAssoc, but the code below, all those BIS, SUBL, SUBQ are alpha instruction set 1624132;1489143367;phf;there's a translation code (in lisp) that takes that alpha body and spits out c equilvalent of the BIS ... SUBL ... etc. sequence 1624133;1489143507;phf;lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate 1624134;1489148010;davout;in other women torture news: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR-fA6OG21w 1624135;1489148038;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in "totally not torture she's evidently enjoying herself your honor", http://68.media.tumblr.com/b017ae134ec78e38392c2fe15680847c/tumblr_ocdzn3JHCz1ric730o2_400.gif 1624136;1489148165;mircea_popescu;davout est ce qu'elle jouit un peu? 1624137;1489148248;davout;i know i would 1624138;1489148262;mircea_popescu;o shit did i actually get the verb righ for once ? 1624139;1489148318;davout;almost perfect 1624140;1489148324;davout;just missed a hyphen 1624141;1489148327;davout;est-ce 1624142;1489148335;davout;other than that nailed it 1624143;1489148340;mircea_popescu;nuts. 1624144;1489148432;mircea_popescu;I was with ben_vulpes at dildo forge, knee deep in girl spunk 1624145;1489148440;mircea_popescu;i said how come the men here suffer like they do ? 1624146;1489148759;mircea_popescu;phf the story of alpha is perhaps one of the best illustrations of the fundamentally anti-intellectual stance and calling of the female state. 1980s true 64 bit architecture, well supported (openvms started there, ffs, go revolutionize shit in 2015 with the remnants of 1980s tech). "sold" to fiorina's company, never heard from again, because gotta prop up intel. 1624147;1489149638;mircea_popescu;phf it's ogni/ch'entrate not ogne / ch'intrate, btw :D 1624148;1489149704;mircea_popescu;you totally gotta to eat more varied cunt, i can tell by your vowels your gyneceum's monocultural! 1624149;1489154285;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/83747C8EA3613D6D3DEEEDE006197672FCB135ABA18188DB332E25098C44C765 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1650...4657 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '202.130.103.22 (ssh-rsa key from 202.130.103.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (wtt22.smartinfo.com.hk. HK) 1624150;1489154285;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/83747C8EA3613D6D3DEEEDE006197672FCB135ABA18188DB332E25098C44C765 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1622...1153 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '202.130.103.22 (ssh-rsa key from 202.130.103.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (wtt22.smartinfo.com.hk. HK) 1624151;1489156003;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624127 << the classic alpha ver you described was in one of the subdirs, aha. and a recent g5 one (that dks mentioned to me in 2010 when he delivered the long-awaited genera alpha to my rupturefarm) 1624152;1489156003;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 10:39 phf: asciilifeform: if you spent time with it though, you'll realize that it's an assembly dump of the original emulator written for alpha, and the "emulator" part is actually a combination of c and lisp necessary to ~translate original alpha assembly into portable-ish c~ 1624153;1489156049;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624127 << the c src i linked to does not appear to match this description, seems to be honest emulator 1624154;1489156049;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 10:39 phf: asciilifeform: if you spent time with it though, you'll realize that it's an assembly dump of the original emulator written for alpha, and the "emulator" part is actually a combination of c and lisp necessary to ~translate original alpha assembly into portable-ish c~ 1624155;1489156067;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624129 << mno 1624156;1489156067;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 10:43 phf: i don't quite remember, what goes where, but i'm pretty sure the emulator.c that you linked is a frankenstein that primarily emulates alpha, though it has some signifcant knowledge about what the alpha emulator does, so it's not quite qemu, but something a lot scarrier 1624157;1489156093;asciilifeform;phf: link to yours some time ? 1624158;1489156388;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624146 << alpha was already half-dead when hp swallowed compaq, in '02. iirc compaq shitburied it in '01 and sold all rights to intel, who proclaimed the arch now known as 'itanic' as its replacement. 1624159;1489156388;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 12:25 mircea_popescu: phf the story of alpha is perhaps one of the best illustrations of the fundamentally anti-intellectual stance and calling of the female state. 1980s true 64 bit architecture, well supported (openvms started there, ffs, go revolutionize shit in 2015 with the remnants of 1980s tech). "sold" to fiorina's company, never heard from again, because gotta prop up intel. 1624160;1489156404;mircea_popescu;iirc it was late 90s 1624161;1489156410;asciilifeform;amd hired the designers away 1624162;1489156429;mircea_popescu;yeah it was ishitsomething, itembel, i dun recall. 1624163;1489156434;asciilifeform;and turned from a sort of 'cyrix' , piss clones maker, into actual cpu house 1624164;1489156444;mircea_popescu;aha 1624165;1489156455;mircea_popescu;lasted about as their professional lives did, also. 1624166;1489156461;mircea_popescu;amd couldn't hire a new set. 1624167;1489156468;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'itanium', vliw monster for which nobody was ever able to make a useful compiler 1624168;1489156486;mircea_popescu;yeah, i recall it wasn't ever actually deployed in any meaningful sense. ielbrus. 1624169;1489156508;asciilifeform;afaik only known working examples are in usg heathen pits 1624170;1489156517;mircea_popescu;same as elbrus yes. 1624171;1489156529;mircea_popescu;"a technology so powerful, so secret, it needn't even exist!" 1624172;1489156538;mircea_popescu;the nuke totally fucked up their brains. 1624173;1489156575;*;asciilifeform had a prof in uni who taught systems architecture (cpu design) with itanic as 'what not to do' 1624174;1489156713;asciilifeform;re alphas, i am rather fond of the alpha, i have several here, possibly mentioned before 1624175;1489156735;asciilifeform;not quite 'fits in head' machine, but 'fits in book' 1624176;1489156862;asciilifeform;one perverse fact, is that microshit had a winblowz ecosystem for it, ready to go, it could have been he 'designated winner' in intel's place. except -- no, because gotta target the konsoomer chump junk ... 1624177;1489156950;asciilifeform;( the sane folx, who had alphas with tru64, openvms, etc, went 'wtf why would i even think of winblowz' -- which wouldn't do. whole edifice 'musted die' ) 1624178;1489157225;mircea_popescu;ah i recall that, windows nt 1624179;1489157323;mircea_popescu;well, anyway, i suppose it is a good thing the intelligent people involved could you know, pursue their own self-determined will and etcetera. who knows how many glorious flights of amateur rc airplanes this obviously reasonable arrangement gave the world! 1624180;1489157347;mircea_popescu;not to mention of all the truly priceless fishing and whatnot else, history hasn't recorded. 1624181;1489157446;Framedragger;i like my rc airplanes. "the will of history necessitates you to X" has a marx'ified hegelian vibe :p 1624182;1489157585;mod6;mornin' 1624183;1489157628;Framedragger;o/ 1624184;1489157698;mircea_popescu;oyesitdoes. 1624185;1489157722;mircea_popescu;adolescence is the perceiving of boundless possibilities and maturity comes with the comprehension of the bounds. 1624186;1489157865;Framedragger;myeah #trilema is basically valgrind. 1624187;1489158110;mircea_popescu;but, as the eternally mentioned bottle well informs : the above has any merit only inasmuch it rankles the subject himself. otherwise it's nothing ; and besides there's many ways to, in brick pollitt's words, "hear that little click" 1624188;1489158135;mircea_popescu;so all is not lost! stupor abounds and thanks to the ever advancing technologee is now cheaper than ever! 1624189;1489158216;mircea_popescu;meanwhile at spiked ball ranch, http://68.media.tumblr.com/b9d67860081dce95976c346981a1bc71/tumblr_obxnfzrDdZ1s4jw4io1_1280.jpg 1624190;1489158952;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624188 << i built myself a 'games box' , not long ago, 'to unwind', but turned out that the part of my head that was able to enjoy this, had atrophied, found myself constantly 'if i'm this awake, oughta be running $experiment, finishing up $unfinisheds', etc. ended up giving the (princely) fuckofftron to brother to play with. 1624191;1489158952;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 15:02 mircea_popescu: so all is not lost! stupor abounds and thanks to the ever advancing technologee is now cheaper than ever! 1624192;1489159006;asciilifeform;somehow, long ago internalized mircea_popescu's above point re the model airplanes. 1624193;1489159029;asciilifeform;'if not you, then who' (tm) (r) 1624194;1489159032;mircea_popescu;yeah, it's not lost on me that i'm the loudest preacher of continence in a cloister of monks muchly more restrained and disciplined than myself. 1624195;1489159088;mircea_popescu;i suppose that's why they have that "excluding present company" device. 1624196;1489163827;trinque;asciilifeform: getting rejected by dulap with that ssh key I gave ya. 1624197;1489163844;asciilifeform;trinque: you gotta log in as shown in the recipe 1624198;1489163852;trinque;oops, k. 1624199;1489164135;asciilifeform;trinque: i.e. your login is 'tunnel', not 'deedbot' 1624200;1489164261;trinque;ding 1624201;1489164268;asciilifeform;worx? 1624202;1489164323;trinque;ayep 1624203;1489164332;trinque;connecting trb to it now 1624204;1489164553;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0376A22D7C6DDA3C6BCF95FADF960352C32B7EC823CB87C4197DEE78BA0E4D9F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...1137 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.182.76.82 (ssh-rsa key from 213.182.76.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (213-182-76-82.ip.welcomeitalia.it. IT) 1624205;1489164553;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/0376A22D7C6DDA3C6BCF95FADF960352C32B7EC823CB87C4197DEE78BA0E4D9F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1580...0613 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.182.76.82 (ssh-rsa key from 213.182.76.82 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (213-182-76-82.ip.welcomeitalia.it. IT) 1624206;1489164573;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624048 << feltbad, so wrote that stupid symlink and fs profiling tool that no-one wanted to do. results later. while at it: anyone knows if CLOCK_MONOTONIC has sufficient resolution for profiling? asciilifeform? allegedly - yes. 1624207;1489164573;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 03:46 mircea_popescu: Framedragger i don't get it, you graphed some functions ? or ? 1624208;1489164600;Framedragger;getting ~4000-7000ns for symlink resolution to real path for a 1mn symlink dir structure, e.g. 1624209;1489164654;asciilifeform;that's slightly slower, looks like, than the old db.. 1624210;1489164667;*;Framedragger spent longer than wants to admit sorting out his heap and valgrind'ing. too much python is bad for a person 1624211;1489164710;Framedragger;orly? this is *ns* (10^-9), mind you. hm. and this is just resolution of path with single symlink in it 1624212;1489164724;asciilifeform;ok backtracking : what means 'resolution' 1624213;1489164731;Framedragger;sorry - yeah 1624214;1489164732;asciilifeform;does this include the actual read ? 1624215;1489164737;Framedragger;no 1624216;1489164741;asciilifeform;aah 1624217;1489164754;asciilifeform;also, on what 1624218;1489164756;asciilifeform;ssd ? 1624219;1489164760;Framedragger;asciilifeform: call to `readlink()`. 1624220;1489164763;Framedragger;yes, ssd 1624221;1489164766;asciilifeform;and on top of what (ext4 ? ) 1624222;1489164779;Framedragger;ssd under docker fs, later - real disk 1624223;1489164782;Framedragger;ext4, yes 1624224;1489164783;asciilifeform;and connected how ? ( sata2 ? 3 ? ) 1624225;1489164791;Framedragger;uhh 1624226;1489164795;asciilifeform;wtf is 'dockerfs' 1624227;1489164807;Framedragger;note, it's just some additional syscalls, re docker 1624228;1489164826;Framedragger;will get a way to test real disk soon, didn't want to run on personal trashy PC, hence shitty server 1624229;1489164849;asciilifeform;to rephrase, this would tell something useful if we had with what to directly compare it with -- what operation in ye olde bdb would this measure correspond to ? 1624230;1489164863;Framedragger;aha, right. i haven't even looked at bdb. 1624231;1489164880;Framedragger;what i want to do later when i find time is, actually read file, too, of course. 1624232;1489164910;Framedragger;for now, just generated 1mn symlinks with names corresponding to transaction hash hex. 1624233;1489164911;asciilifeform;let's put down in the log, what exactly ye olde bdb does, that eats 99+% of trb's wall clock: 1624234;1489164927;asciilifeform;it exists (wallet idiocy aside) in trb for 1 purpose and 1 purpose only 1624235;1489164953;asciilifeform;... so that a 256-bit turd, e.g., 3ec455a2a84e978687a3990cec73f36b324fbd28e03603c6d9fc52018b001558, can be taken and matched to a block # where said tx lives. 1624236;1489164968;asciilifeform;and likewise when a new block comes, all of the tx in it, get indexed this way. 1624237;1489165015;Framedragger;so the 'matching' (index lookup) is the 99% here, right? 1624238;1489165020;asciilifeform;lookup+store 1624239;1489165026;Framedragger;aha, right. 1624240;1489165064;asciilifeform;btw i will also put down in the log, one very simple possible algorithm for a 'txidx-fs' : 1624241;1489165088;asciilifeform;picture a 16GB contiguous block of ssd. you cut it up so that it corresponds to 2^32 x 32bits. 1624242;1489165128;Framedragger;(yeah btw, just ftr, symlink *creation* under populated dir structure (`ln -s files_f1/block35461.txt dc/dc89c1f2b58909d3814b250a731a9b9b791b092759553e3ba6579ffaad3a7565`) is slow. however, the creation was done using shellscript, need to move to c to be able to actually profile with precision.) 1624243;1489165142;asciilifeform;now you store the table as follows: the top 32 bits (e.g., 3ec455a2 from above) are an array index into this table 1624244;1489165196;asciilifeform;if there are no collisions (i.e. there is no other tx on the disk whose id begins with 3ec455a2) then that entry in the array IS the block index where the tx lives. 1624245;1489165215;asciilifeform;after which finding the actual tx is an O(N) operation in the block, with small N (the tx in the block) 1624246;1489165232;Framedragger;aha, right! so it's basically a (small) hashtable. 1624247;1489165236;Framedragger;(right?) 1624248;1489165237;asciilifeform;lemme finish plox 1624249;1489165241;Framedragger;sorry. 1624250;1489165270;asciilifeform;BUT if there are collisions, the upper bit of the 32bit entry, is set. and then we know that the lower 31, are an index into another contiguous array 1624251;1489165307;asciilifeform;and there we find ~lists of block indices~, so the machine might have to try 2 or 3 blocks before it finds tx. 1624252;1489165323;asciilifeform;how to ~write~ to this data structure is, i think, obvious to the reader, i do not need to describe. 1624253;1489165338;asciilifeform;anyway this is the simplest physically-possible scheme. 1624254;1489165360;trinque;oh jesus docker Framedragger 1624255;1489165372;asciilifeform;but, thing is, it won't work any better on mechanical disk than the old bdb. and imho it is quite impossible to make variable-length tx bitcoin work well on mechanical disk, with modern spamola level. 1624256;1489165372;*;trinque gets his knotted rope 1624257;1489165399;asciilifeform;however it does have the advantage of not using 10,000,001 lines of ext4 open sores crapolade for anything. 1624258;1489165412;asciilifeform;this whole thing would probably fit in ~1,000 lines of c. 1624259;1489165421;asciilifeform;and in-head. 1624260;1489165438;Framedragger;trinque: it's just a kindergarten way of wrapping up some syscalls. will obviously benchmark outside it later. i wasn't completely certain that my tool wouldn't trash the host fs. :) 1624261;1489165452;Framedragger;asciilifeform: hmm, very nice. i suppose it's as close to fixed-length as is possible given current bitcoin 1624262;1489165476;asciilifeform;Framedragger: it is literally the smallest number of moving parts i can think of , that'd do the job. 1624263;1489165476;Framedragger;efficient seeking. 1624264;1489165499;asciilifeform;also on a reasonable box you can keep the l1 table in ram 1624265;1489165517;asciilifeform;so then you have 1 disk seek per tx, rather than 2. 1624266;1489165584;asciilifeform;( or, in the case of ext4 or other konsoomer fs, fuck-knows-how-many ! ) 1624267;1489165594;Framedragger;asciilifeform: wait, what is "block index"? just the integer denoting block number? 1624268;1489165600;asciilifeform;Framedragger: correct 1624269;1489165630;asciilifeform;block where tx lives. 1624270;1489165637;Framedragger;why the need for "the machine might have to try 2 or 3 blocks before it finds tx" then? and if so, then no guarantee of only 1 seek? 1624271;1489165656;asciilifeform;Framedragger: it depends how many collisions per 32bit head 1624272;1489165693;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7FF10FFD5E7F7EE6C2497D20452061FB8713C20F904A7A86B21EE093A5E7D254 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1391...6403 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.16.61 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.16.61 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (a61.ip.network-consulting.fr. FR) 1624273;1489165694;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7FF10FFD5E7F7EE6C2497D20452061FB8713C20F904A7A86B21EE093A5E7D254 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1797...3053 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '79.98.16.61 (ssh-rsa key from 79.98.16.61 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (a61.ip.network-consulting.fr. FR) 1624274;1489165700;asciilifeform;one seek, on a standard disk, gives you at least 4kB (blocks are 512b, but no disk made in past 20 years actually ~stops at~ 512) 1624275;1489165711;asciilifeform;remember, we are contemplating contiguous blocks on disk 1624276;1489165730;Framedragger;oh i finally understood, literally all there is when one seeks to location 3ec455a2 is a list of block numbers. (or single block number.) 1624277;1489165734;asciilifeform;aha. 1624278;1489165813;asciilifeform;if you're willing to blow another 16GB, you can have an l2 table 1624279;1489165815;Framedragger;this is quite nice, and as you say, seek operation already gives a small chunk which should cover most/all tx for current state of affairs (total number of transactions)... 1624280;1489165817;asciilifeform;on same principle 1624281;1489165856;asciilifeform;Framedragger: it's good for many, many times the current cumulative-tx 1624282;1489165891;asciilifeform;you'll have somewhere between 0 and 2 , statistically, tx per 32bit table entry. 1624283;1489165894;Framedragger;is this the first time you articulated this approach here? i think that's the best on can have for fs-tx-db 1624284;1489165919;asciilifeform;yes, first time, i kept waiting for someone to open a schoolbook and describe this very elementary algo 1624285;1489165991;asciilifeform;it has obvious minus, in that you need a kernel driver 1624286;1489166000;asciilifeform;if you want to actually have the contiguous 16GB 1624287;1489166015;asciilifeform;however mircea_popescu's 'let's patch ext4' has same. 1624288;1489166067;Framedragger;at least i have the excuse of not having looked at the bdb problem / staying away from trb for the time being :p 1624289;1489166071;asciilifeform;i dare say the tabular algo is simple enough to actually be implementable. 1624290;1489166074;Framedragger;i'm not sure if you do need driver 1624291;1489166090;asciilifeform;Framedragger: if you want your own fs, and to write to contiguous disk, you do 1624292;1489166091;Framedragger;here i have an ssd seek profiler which just needs root 1624293;1489166111;asciilifeform;who the fuck wants trb running as root 1624294;1489166121;asciilifeform;(you may as well stuff it in the kernel, then) 1624295;1489166129;Framedragger;it uses `lseek64()` 1624296;1489166169;Framedragger;have separate service taking care of that? i mean, kernel driver is this kind of 'externality', too (and also ring0) 1624297;1489166210;asciilifeform;the Right Thing would probably be to have a very simple kernel driver that takes a specially-marked disk partition and gives userland trb linear use of it, as plain array 1624298;1489166232;asciilifeform;...rather than to have any serious number crunching in kernelspace 1624299;1489166238;Framedragger;makes sense. 1624300;1489166261;asciilifeform;also this is probably obvious, but you want separate disk for this 1624301;1489166263;asciilifeform;physically 1624302;1489166268;asciilifeform;from the one you are running from 1624303;1489166272;asciilifeform;if you want serious speed. 1624304;1489166274;Framedragger;sure 1624305;1489166281;asciilifeform;ideally you would even have separate disks for blocks and tx indices. 1624306;1489166361;asciilifeform;ok, now question for ben_vulpes , trinque , mircea_popescu , et al : anybody got a quick c proggy that will eat blkcut's blocks and produce a linear list of tx ? i'd like to actually calculate the current 32bit tabular collision rate. 1624307;1489166399;asciilifeform;it is statistically possible that we don't even have ONE collision yet 1624308;1489166419;asciilifeform;(and thereby a 16GB l1 table would give you wholly in-memory index for ~all tx lookups) 1624309;1489166528;asciilifeform;btw Framedragger , we can do 1 better than 'block index' 1624310;1489166530;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: not a c proggy, no 1624311;1489166536;asciilifeform;say we put down blocks on 1024 byte alignments. 1624312;1489166556;Framedragger;as in, disk/partition alignments? 1624313;1489166561;asciilifeform;nono listne 1624314;1489166596;asciilifeform;then a 31bit (remember, highest bit means 'go to l2 table') offset gives you a 2^^41 bit space in which your table entry can point to the beginning of a block. 1624315;1489166611;asciilifeform;or, rather, to where-to-start-looking-for-tx 1624316;1489166613;asciilifeform;^ 1624317;1489166629;asciilifeform;so we dispense with the O(N) dumb search inside-block 1624318;1489166748;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1B44E66975AB5EE7B22A779D4B31F07CE8CE336A45DE02B74BAD206055C62130 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1594...7037 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.180.151 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.180.151 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1624319;1489166748;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1B44E66975AB5EE7B22A779D4B31F07CE8CE336A45DE02B74BAD206055C62130 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1711...0703 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.180.151 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.180.151 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1624320;1489166775;asciilifeform;Framedragger: alignment in this case means that we can point ~inside~ blocks, supposing they are stored linearly on disk 1624321;1489166794;asciilifeform;so long as we are ok with having to chug through 1023 bytes of 'not here yet!' 1624322;1489166812;asciilifeform;which costs us 0 because no disk made in last 20 yrs reads any less than 4kB on 1 seek. 1624323;1489166841;asciilifeform;point being, to point at a tx sitting on a multi-TB disk, you don't need to be able to address it ~bytewise~ 1624324;1489166842;asciilifeform;thinkaboutit. 1624325;1489166898;Framedragger;bear with my slowness, can you clarify how it looks like if there's a collision in the initial lookup? 1624326;1489166904;Framedragger;in this case. 1624327;1489166918;asciilifeform;it goes to l2 table 1624328;1489166926;asciilifeform;which can take 2 basic forms, depending on your storage budget 1624329;1489166940;asciilifeform;if you're 'rich', it can be a table entirely like l1 1624330;1489166956;asciilifeform;where if top bit of the entry is not set, you have your where-to-go-to-find-tx-on-disk result 1624331;1489166990;asciilifeform;and if set, you gotta look at the next machine word (each entry has a certain amount of space for collisions) 1624332;1489167015;asciilifeform;'look at next' can also mean 'go to l3', if you're willing to budget another 16G. 1624333;1489167031;asciilifeform;and so forth. 1624334;1489167064;asciilifeform;the most basic setup has an l1 which immediately proceeds to the 'slow' table (where you have to look at multiple offsets in case of collision, to find your tx) 1624335;1489167083;Framedragger;right! ahh that's nice. (so just to clarify, the 1024 byte block trick wouldn't work if there's a collision (unless additional budget / w/e)) 1624336;1489167093;asciilifeform;this form will almost certainly suffice for another decade of trb 1624337;1489167108;asciilifeform;considering that we have, what, 200 mil tx; and l1 table gives you 4billion slots. 1624338;1489167109;Framedragger;yeah, given actual tx amounts.. 250mn vs. 2^32 1624339;1489167111;asciilifeform;aha. 1624340;1489167112;Framedragger;yeah. 1624341;1489167132;Framedragger;well *that sounds like a very decent idea*. :) 1624342;1489167142;asciilifeform;Framedragger: the 1024bt thing works in all cases, it simply means that you don't have to point to beginnings of blocks, but to a place very near the tx 1624343;1489167151;asciilifeform;see, we store the blocks linearly 1624344;1489167164;asciilifeform;this also abolishes the cost of 'budget 1MB per block' 1624345;1489167173;asciilifeform;now you can store them back-to-back 1624346;1489167184;asciilifeform;because you can point inside'em in the index. 1624347;1489167191;Framedragger;yeah i forget sometimes. fixed block length is nice for this... 1624348;1489167202;asciilifeform;fixed 1MB would give you O(1) block seek. 1624349;1489167234;Framedragger;ahh, yeah okay, back-to-back you mean exactly that, not having to allocate 1MB per block. 1624350;1489167340;asciilifeform;however block index is not large -- say we have 500,000 blocks, and you want to know where on disk lives its beginning, and your disk takes 64bit lba addressor. so you need 500,000 * 8bytes == 4,000,000 bytes ! 3 floppy's worth 1624351;1489167353;asciilifeform;except that you don't actually need byte-addressing ! 1624352;1489167374;asciilifeform;that is, you don't need 8 bytes to say which 4kB slice has the beginning 1624353;1489167404;asciilifeform;so in practice, you can have O(1) seeks ~while~ storing the blocks back-to-back in a classical trb. 1624354;1489167439;Framedragger;(i see how good it is to be aware of how actual disks read data here. some theoretician would propose a pointer-exact-location scheme instead...) 1624355;1489167468;asciilifeform;if you want to consider 'what would give best performance on the iron we have, with minimal moving parts, with the trb we have' this is what comes out. 1624356;1489167517;asciilifeform;i was recently considering implementing a similar scheme for phuctor, and realized today that it would work entirely well in trb. 1624357;1489167611;Framedragger;it's a really Good Thing that the hashing function which spits out transaction hashes gives *uniform distribution*. no congestion / too many collisions expected, and this scheme leverages that. 1624358;1489167632;asciilifeform;btw mircea_popescu's suggestion from last night, to dispense with 'blocks' as separate class of object, and simply store sequence of tx, with 'this was in block B' field added -- would work quite well with this scheme. 1624359;1489167667;asciilifeform;now store each tx on a 4096bt 'cylinder' boundary, and you're golden 1624360;1489167681;asciilifeform;the table can index individual tx. 1624361;1489167691;Framedragger;i guess one can imagine a single sequence of tx then, simply. 1624362;1489167695;asciilifeform;aha. 1624363;1489167695;Framedragger;aha right. 1624364;1489167738;Framedragger;decent ideas, what can i say 1624365;1489167791;asciilifeform;imho the 'hard part' is not even to implement this table, it is freshman homework, but to unravel the liquishit in trb and learn where to even put the lookup/write ! 1624366;1489167848;Framedragger;yeah that's one reason i'm not too attracted to trb, tbh, the amount of sewage gruntwork required to decouple shit from the monolith. 1624367;1489167882;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/db.cpp?v=makefiles#0329 << starting here. 1624368;1489167918;asciilifeform;the gnarly part is to dissect all of shitoshi's idiot special cases (e.g. 'ReadOwnerTxes') 1624369;1489167931;asciilifeform;and reduce all of the bdbisms to calls to table ops. 1624370;1489168008;asciilifeform;or, for instance, what is ReadDiskTx . 1624371;1489168017;asciilifeform;(as far as i can see, it is unused code) 1624372;1489168034;Framedragger;hmh, at least functions make up not the *worst* interface seen, but still lotsa work and weird mutable shit sprayed all around, i imagine 1624373;1489168878;trinque;on the subj, still waiting for my node to shut down to connect the wire to dulap 1624374;1489168886;trinque;god forbid the disk always be in a coherent state, eh? 1624375;1489168914;asciilifeform;trinque: i've found that 'kill', which syncs the db, followed by kill -9, which nukes shitoshi's pointless wait idiocy, worx 100%. 1624376;1489168929;asciilifeform;with 0 loss. 1624377;1489168936;trinque;that's right, it's doing a sleep or two of several minutes 1624378;1489168943;asciilifeform;0 reason to let it 1624379;1489168959;asciilifeform;winblowz culture. 1624380;1489168967;trinque;what, thing needs to cool?! 1624381;1489168969;asciilifeform;(some time grep for the sleeps, it is instructive) 1624382;1489168982;asciilifeform;idiot put them ~everywhere 1624383;1489169008;asciilifeform;i am nearly convinced that he was, at one time, a microshit employee. 1624384;1489169013;asciilifeform;nobody else does this!11 1624385;1489169174;asciilifeform;Framedragger, ben_vulpes : i predict that there will be few enough collisions that you can shunt ~all~ collision cases off to an O(N) lookup table, for next decade, with ~0 measurable loss of avg.case performance. 1624386;1489169212;asciilifeform;(lookup table consisting of, literally, rows of full txid followed by where-on-disk, that you'd chug through whenever collisionbit is set) 1624387;1489169304;Framedragger;yeah, makes sense to me (on average, current likelihood of particular 32 bit entry being populated is ~ < 6%) 1624388;1489169316;asciilifeform;so, literally, 1624389;1489169353;asciilifeform;if (table[txidtop32] & 0x80000000) return linearlookup(txidtop32); 1624390;1489169379;asciilifeform;else return disklookup(table[txidtop32]) ; 1624391;1489169379;asciilifeform;. 1624392;1489169466;asciilifeform;'linearlookup' is the slow-table from earlier 1624393;1489169489;asciilifeform;disklookup is the 'go to nth cylinder and before you get to n+1st cylinder, THERE's yer tx' from earlier still. 1624394;1489169494;asciilifeform;and you have here ~whole thing. 1624395;1489169578;asciilifeform;( i can already picture mircea_popescu spitting out his breakfast, 'modern hdd dun have cylinder, you nut' -- except, it in effect DOES, fetches massive blox , whether mechanical or ssd, by design, for ages now ) 1624396;1489169800;Framedragger;there's an assumption as max num of collisions here, of course, but obvs in practical terms it's a very safe assumption... 1624397;1489169805;Framedragger;as to* 1624398;1489169806;asciilifeform;there is not. 1624399;1489169810;Framedragger;oh 1624400;1489169818;asciilifeform;if you get moar collisions, you simply end up in the slowtable moar often. 1624401;1489169830;Framedragger;and the slow-table.. hm 1624402;1489169835;asciilifeform;if you start seeing them ~regularly~ (say, trb makes it to 50 yrs from nao) you put in a l2 table. 1624403;1489169841;asciilifeform;then you get another century. 1624404;1489169853;asciilifeform;(i would hope that l1 will last until trbi..) 1624405;1489169862;Framedragger;right right, not disputing that. 1624406;1489169874;asciilifeform;do the arithmetic, it isn't as if anyone can cancel the 'block per 10min' thing. 1624407;1489169909;Framedragger;yeah. hmh - i guess that's it. literally. nice scheme 1624408;1489169923;asciilifeform;there is 1 potential nuance, 1624409;1489169928;asciilifeform;enemy might start to 'mine' txids 1624410;1489169930;asciilifeform;so that they collide 1624411;1489169951;asciilifeform;but this'd cost'em moar than simply to mine. 1624412;1489169965;asciilifeform;(you could in fact use a repurposed miner, for this, as i understand) 1624413;1489170020;asciilifeform;at any rate, working around this idiocy would be very cheap -- say we index by top32 of keccak(txid) instead of plain txid. in the event of. 1624414;1489170034;asciilifeform;much cheaper to reindex a trb node, what, 1 night, than for enemy to bake new asics. 1624415;1489170042;asciilifeform;so this scenario, imho, is out. 1624416;1489170061;asciilifeform;(enemy is welcome to bash his skull to a pancake against the cement wall) 1624417;1489170250;Framedragger;while at it, and i'm guessing it's in the logs.., i wonder when was the last time some tried to come up with an approximation what the costs to get to >50% network hashing power would be 1624418;1489170263;Framedragger;i'm guessing that an interested state could totally do that 1624419;1489170281;Framedragger;and yeah, this 'generate collisions' scenario seems like a harder version of 'just mine' 1624420;1489170285;asciilifeform;Framedragger: there was old thread with mircea_popescu , where he stated that usg and china attempted it at same time, and perma-deadlocked 1624421;1489170298;asciilifeform;iirc in 2014. 1624422;1489170319;Framedragger;attempted.. citing internal intelligence of course, or something 1624423;1489170323;asciilifeform;aha 1624424;1489170333;Framedragger;hard to believe, but then, i should read logs at least 1624425;1489170389;asciilifeform;Framedragger: the other thing is that it is quite impossible to come up with meaningful cost figure 1624426;1489170400;asciilifeform;because the cost, to someone who ALREADY has fab capability , is miniscule 1624427;1489170412;asciilifeform;whereas to someone without (e.g. the folx here) it is ~infinite. 1624428;1489170474;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624424 << what, it contradicts yours? 1624429;1489170474;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:25 Framedragger: hard to believe, but then, i should read logs at least 1624430;1489170584;Framedragger;:p 1624431;1489170601;Framedragger;asciilifeform: yeah, i see what you mean 1624432;1489170608;asciilifeform;Framedragger: http://preshing.com/20110504/hash-collision-probabilities << re earlier. quick likbez on collision probability calculation using 'birthday theorem' 1624433;1489170772;asciilifeform;http://preshing.com/20160314/leapfrog-probing << from same www, also notbad.jpg illustration of schoolbook hash tables. 1624434;1489170786;Framedragger;aha, so there's high probability that there will *be* a collision across the entire space. 1624435;1489170811;asciilifeform;Framedragger: just as you do not need 366 people in a room for a birthday collision. 1624436;1489170817;asciilifeform;(~guaranteed at 80 or so) 1624437;1489170830;Framedragger;sure, yeah! nice illustrations there 1624438;1489170922;asciilifeform;ought to help those folx for whom kindergarten happened long, long ago, to picture the subj of today's thread. 1624439;1489171019;asciilifeform;i'll round this out by observing that potentially you might be able to get away with less than 32bits of table (i.e. less than 16GB of space) 1624440;1489171026;asciilifeform;depending on the collision rate. 1624441;1489171062;asciilifeform;i like 32 (recall, 31, we need 1 bit for collision marker) because it translates cleanly to our physical machine. 1624442;1489171069;asciilifeform;but can use, e.g., 30, 29... 1624443;1489171076;asciilifeform;if 'poor'. 1624444;1489171089;asciilifeform;the scheme 'degrades gracefully'. 1624445;1489171212;asciilifeform;the ~other~ thing i'll point out, is that you do not in fact need 16GB of ram, to implement that table , if you can do it in the kernel 1624446;1489171226;asciilifeform;you can use x64's page table to 'cheat' and store a sparse form ! 1624447;1489171234;asciilifeform;but THIS i will leave as an exercise for the reader. 1624448;1489171294;asciilifeform;( however it will be intuitively obvious, to anyone familiar with x86/x64 and similar archs, that this is physically possible. i.e. you never actually need to store a contiguous empty GB in memory, if you can manipulate the page table ) 1624449;1489171401;Framedragger;heh you can even use things like nx bit if not wanting to reorganize table, i would guess! 1624450;1489171414;asciilifeform;why would you ever not have the nx bit set for a motherfucking table 1624451;1489171451;Framedragger;that's a horrible idea for sure, but hey, free space to cheat in 1624452;1489171466;asciilifeform;you don't need any moar kludges, the scheme described, will work. 1624453;1489171469;asciilifeform;with hard guarantees, even. 1624454;1489171500;Framedragger;no, of course, you just mentioned possible cheats, but you probably meant something more 'robust'. 1624455;1489171523;asciilifeform;i meant 'cheats' that use the machine as-prescribed and save multiple GB. 1624456;1489171534;asciilifeform;rather than 'let's put cock into gas tank because it fits' 1624457;1489171671;deedbot;http://trinque.org/2017/03/10/deedbot-wired-to-dulap/ << trinque - deedbot.org wired to dulap 1624458;1489171687;asciilifeform;congrats trinque !! 1624459;1489171691;trinque;thanks to you sir 1624460;1489171710;trinque;if you want a reciprocal wire lemme know 1624461;1489171721;asciilifeform;i very well might, shortly. 1624462;1489171747;asciilifeform;(would like to test 2way 'wiring' first on a non-infrastructural set of boxen ) 1624463;1489171762;asciilifeform;it'd suck if dulap ~and~ deedbot choked in same day, say. 1624464;1489171796;asciilifeform;'if one synchronized swimmer drowns, must the others?' (tm) (unknown) 1624465;1489171802;trinque;aha, lol 1624466;1489172200;asciilifeform;trinque: fwiw i still know of at least 1 unsolved tickle re 'wires' -- how to avoid multiple redundant connections 1624467;1489172216;asciilifeform;(right now, e.g., zoolag and dulap happily also find each other over ordinary peer table and connect plaintext) 1624468;1489172232;asciilifeform;i'd like to think of an elegant solution to this 1624469;1489172268;asciilifeform;(can, say, ban them from talking on 8333 to each other in iptables, but this is stupid because then they will not share the perfectly-good ip with OTHER peers) 1624470;1489172318;asciilifeform;and yes i could put in a '--noplaintextpeer=x,y,z...' flag, BUT 1624471;1489172330;asciilifeform;BUT this would make it very easy for the enemy to determine who is 'wired' to whom 1624472;1489172340;asciilifeform;by looking at who never plaintcp's to whom on 8333 ! 1624473;1489172344;asciilifeform;so we have dilemma. 1624474;1489172365;asciilifeform;maybe mircea_popescu can cut it, with his knife. 1624475;1489172450;asciilifeform;( and ~yes~ right now it is very easy to see 'who wired to whom' by looking at ssh, but in the future we will presumably route multi-hop, via a gossiptron, and it will be less obvious ) 1624476;1489172480;asciilifeform;at any rate this is a 'theoretical' problem, imho 'not burning'. 1624477;1489173049;asciilifeform;!~later tell Framedragger the table system can be easily prototyped , without writing any kernel code, by using 16G file on ordinary disk. (at the obvious speed penalty.) 1624478;1489173049;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1624479;1489173064;asciilifeform;(on ordinary userland fs, which you have now.) 1624480;1489173110;Framedragger;asciilifeform: yeah! i may have time / want to do this in ~april. just to be clear, there's really no way to have underlying userland fs allocate a contiguous block, right? 1624481;1489173112;asciilifeform;( i wonder if there are any traditional fs that will actually give you 16G of contiguous blocks, if asked nicely ) 1624482;1489173120;Framedragger;ah, that's the q i guess 1624483;1489173122;asciilifeform;Framedragger: you asked at same time as i .. lol 1624484;1489173129;asciilifeform;afaik answer is 0 1624485;1489173133;asciilifeform;but worth investigating imho. 1624486;1489173292;Framedragger;also, wonder if there could be a relevant linux cap'ability for allowing raw access to given /dev/block. but maybe not. 1624487;1489173320;asciilifeform;Framedragger: there is a udev trick, iirc, for giving particular users access to a given raw block dev 1624488;1489173329;asciilifeform;but you'll need to dedicate an entire disk 1624489;1489173342;asciilifeform;at any rate imho the flat-file variant oughta be tried 1st. 1624490;1489173351;Framedragger;well, 'disk' could just be partition which isn't a bad thing anyway, right? 1624491;1489173354;asciilifeform;then it can be readily mapped to physical disk. 1624492;1489173356;Framedragger;sure! 1624493;1489173381;asciilifeform;in fact it can be simply a file descriptor given on command line. 1624494;1489173395;asciilifeform;trb will not even need to know whether it was given a real disk, or flat file. 1624495;1489173447;asciilifeform;for the ultimate variant, where we don't even store 'blocks' as such, but merely sequence of specially-marked tx, you ~will~ need whole disk. 1624496;1489173566;asciilifeform;for completeness, i will note that you can model any 'whole disk' variant with an enormous flat file, in userland, at some speed penalty. 1624497;1489173591;asciilifeform;(i can make a 400GB file on my disk, right now, and it will cost me a ~constant factor vs 'raw disk' i/o) 1624498;1489173813;Framedragger;ah yeah, iirc some applications even use this 'descriptor passing' technique so minimise high permissions level exposure (but don't recall). quite robust 1624499;1489173833;asciilifeform;to borrow from mircea_popescu et al, 'it works if you work it' 1624500;1489174153;asciilifeform;now, 1 more observation, the table scheme described here, can be safely parallelized, for so long as you ensure that the readers are never writing THE same place being elsewhere written. 1624501;1489174202;asciilifeform;unlike idiot db 1624502;1489174207;asciilifeform;or civilian file systems. 1624503;1489174269;asciilifeform;*the readers are never reading THE 1624504;1489174274;asciilifeform;lol. 1624505;1489174331;Framedragger;yes, but how to cheaply ensure the latter. you won't have a shitload of locks now will you 1624506;1489174333;asciilifeform;the reason for this ability, is that you never have 'tree rebalances' or whatever other crapolade general-purpose db, and konsoomer file systems , occupy themselves with ! 1624507;1489174357;Framedragger;(i guess depends on nature of parallel work. e.g. if it's some kind of sequential re-confirm, launch threads with different segments, etc.) 1624508;1489174381;asciilifeform;Framedragger: all you need is to check a read candidate against the current list of active writes. 1624509;1489174384;Framedragger;tree rebalance is a feature of a balance binary tree which is sometimes the right tool for the job, cmon :) 1624510;1489174392;asciilifeform;(in hardware this would be O(1) op, in our reality -- slightly slower) 1624511;1489174401;Framedragger;i guess i can see that 1624512;1489174402;asciilifeform;Framedragger: but not right tool for ~this~ job 1624513;1489174411;Framedragger;s/balance binary/balanced binary/ 1624514;1489174418;asciilifeform;the sha256 is balancing for us. 1624515;1489174425;Framedragger;of course, i agree, i'm just saying it's not "inherent problem of all db omg" 1624516;1489174428;Framedragger;yeah. 1624517;1489174451;asciilifeform;Framedragger: i am increasingly finding that 'general purpose db' is, like the infamous 'vise-grip', The Wrong Tool For Every Job 1624518;1489174484;asciilifeform;('visegrip' was/is an american gadget, looks rather like cross between pliers, locking forceps, and plumber's wrench, that was pitches as 'The Right Tool For Every Job' when introduced, some time mid-lastcentury) 1624519;1489174538;asciilifeform;using general-purpose db where performance is a critical concern, inevitably gets you http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615434 . 1624520;1489174538;a111;Logged on 2017-02-19 03:54 asciilifeform: (iirc we had a thread where i described how corporate ameritards, if given a problem like phuctor, would happily soak up a few $mil and megawatt of iron) 1624521;1489174607;Framedragger;those few $mil would be oracle 1624522;1489174608;Framedragger;heh. 1624523;1489174644;asciilifeform;observe, gavin, hearn, et al, have specific orders for past 5 or so yrs : 'make it so that bitcoin REQUIRES oracle cluster' 1624524;1489174649;Framedragger;yeah, i see what you mean, and everything. i'm not convinced that phuctor db is using the most it can from postgres, but neither you nor me have time to investigate this presently, i guess (and i may not be able to do a great job there anyway) 1624525;1489174679;asciilifeform;Framedragger: i did a good measure of tweaking, and exhausted current time budget for that chore 1624526;1489174684;asciilifeform;will come back to it at some point 1624527;1489174704;trinque;I would, in fact, at this point drop postgresql for a persistence layer for CLOS that did not use the thing under the hood. 1624528;1489174716;asciilifeform;trinque: then i'll need a cl pgp parser 1624529;1489174721;asciilifeform;which i currently don't have. 1624530;1489174724;asciilifeform;and a new everything-else 1624531;1489174733;asciilifeform;(right now it uses an old python lib for wwwtronics) 1624532;1489174747;trinque;nah nah I have no prescription for phuctor 1624533;1489174755;asciilifeform;at some point, yes, i'll rewrite it again. 1624534;1489174758;trinque;we'll make a CL lib for p 1624535;1489174770;trinque;gpg can go die in obscurity 1624536;1489174788;asciilifeform;trinque: phuctor is not simply about gpg, recall 1624537;1489174793;asciilifeform;it is a general-purpose shitrng telescope 1624538;1489174801;asciilifeform;largely yet-unused in the proper way. 1624539;1489174820;asciilifeform;we will be busting ssl keys, for instance, at some point 1624540;1489174829;trinque;aha 1624541;1489174839;asciilifeform;and who knows, what else. 1624542;1489174871;asciilifeform;maybe, who the fuck knows, collect enough data re winblows rng defects, via a future 'uci', to break satoshi's keys. 1624543;1489174890;asciilifeform;('martian' example, but typifies the yet-unknown) 1624544;1489174933;trinque;there's what, a million or so in the stash? plenty to build asciilifeform's fab. 1624545;1489174952;asciilifeform;i did say, 'martian example', not immediate plan to action. 1624546;1489175061;asciilifeform;trinque: incidentally it is not clear, imho, that satoshi's keys are 'edible', they may not be good in practice for getting 'spendable' coin, the popularity of bitcoin per se may well drop catastrophically if you were to move satoshi's coinz 1624547;1489175071;asciilifeform;i contemplate it as more of a 'demolition charge', when trbi exists. 1624548;1489175172;trinque;occurs to me that the man might've seen the coins the same way. 1624549;1489175202;asciilifeform;( http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009 << my old crackpot piece re subj ) 1624550;1489175294;asciilifeform;and whether d00d burned his hdd, or not, has 0 bearing on whether his keys are, on account of his idiocy, breakable. 1624551;1489177916;Framedragger;some (very initial) symlink stats - more stuff will have to wait - given a "here are 1mn 'transactions' which symlink to files, resolve links and read from linked files in random order for 100mn times" setup, with one-folder-deep structure, like so: "simple_f1/e5/e5edc34c57d5ea2ea99cfe16d04655aa000c3d7f268022d2b21f95928fa34674 -> /files_f1/99997.txt", most basic stats are: 1624552;1489177927;Framedragger;Processed 1000000 lines (min/max target numbers seen: 1, 100000) - beginning benchmarks now... [i.e., 'target block' numbers are in this range. 1m symlinks point to 100k files randomly.] 1624553;1489177927;Framedragger;Uniform randomness report: min hits seen = 871, max hits seen = 1160, avg = 1000.00, sum = 100000000.0, minloc @ 85798, maxloc @ 88837 1624554;1489177935;Framedragger;Symlink resolve (readlink()) times given 100000000 iterations: min = 949 ns, max = 1353644 ns, avg = 1688.99 ns, stddev = 2502.42 ns, sum = 168899426822.0 ns, minloc @ 41772957, maxloc @ 20095033 1624555;1489177935;Framedragger;fopen() times given 100000000 iterations: min = 1761 ns, max = 1506074 ns, avg = 2326.51 ns, stddev = 3003.91 ns, sum = 232650578514.0 ns, minloc @ 72539767, maxloc @ 19225446 1624556;1489177945;Framedragger;fread() times given 100000000 iterations: min = 1189 ns, max = 53879016 ns, avg = 1552.73 ns, stddev = 6917.04 ns, sum = 155273497933.0 ns, minloc @ 2462746, maxloc @ 126806 1624557;1489177945;Framedragger;fclose() times given 100000000 iterations: min = 645 ns, max = 739202 ns, avg = 741.62 ns, stddev = 1647.59 ns, sum = 74161953610.0 ns, minloc @ 19564589, maxloc @ 67051179 1624558;1489177976;Framedragger;(fread() was 4k. files are short, with just the number of of 'block' for cross-confirmation and list of 'transactions' as contents.) 1624559;1489178089;Framedragger;(5ms read on an ssd ain't too pretty, but would have to check distribution of these kinds of tails, i guess.) 1624560;1489178123;Framedragger;(bbl) 1624561;1489178451;Framedragger;(ftr: sata 3gbps, ext4, intel SSDSA2CW30, mirror raid.) 1624562;1489179348;asciilifeform;Framedragger: your figures are probably quite 'optimistic' you have not only ssd, but cache in play 1624563;1489179397;Framedragger;asciilifeform: you're right, i was meaning to reset caches (`echo 3 >/proc/sys/vm/drop_caches` should be enough i think), but then forgot 1624564;1489179406;Framedragger;but could be other stuff, too, etc etc. 1624565;1489179455;asciilifeform;at this point ftr i'm quite firmly convinced that baking in massive open sores shitbucket, e.g. ext4, is The Wrong Thing 1624566;1489179463;asciilifeform;and not even because of speed. 1624567;1489179490;Framedragger;no disagreement tbh, i probably know your reasoning 1624568;1489179547;asciilifeform;i originally favoured it on account of simplicity 1624569;1489179548;Framedragger;given time, i was also meaning to run lots of strace to see what is in actuality happening with multiple symlinks etc, but maybe sisyphus 1624570;1489179577;asciilifeform;but in table system, you don't even need to munge indices into strings to make paths with 1624571;1489179586;asciilifeform;much less to fopen() ! 1624572;1489179589;Framedragger;(anyway, will share tool i wrote if only because couldn't find anything fitting the task out there, but need to polish a bit first, etc.) 1624573;1489179596;Framedragger;yeah 1624574;1489180059;jurov;lmao https://github.com/robertfisk/USG/ 1624575;1489180103;jurov;"The USG is Good, not Bad" 1624576;1489180240;asciilifeform;lol!! 1624577;1489180423;*;mircea_popescu waves 1624578;1489180519;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624206 << lol, isn't he endearing ? why do you feel so guilty, yo! about to get married or what. 1624579;1489180519;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:49 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624048 << feltbad, so wrote that stupid symlink and fs profiling tool that no-one wanted to do. results later. while at it: anyone knows if CLOCK_MONOTONIC has sufficient resolution for profiling? asciilifeform? allegedly - yes. 1624580;1489180591;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624226 << you know, you have the most amusing penchant for asking questions you really don't want answered. 1624581;1489180591;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:53 asciilifeform: wtf is 'dockerfs' 1624582;1489180630;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624209 << more importantly, is it blocking ? 1624583;1489180630;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:50 asciilifeform: that's slightly slower, looks like, than the old db.. 1624584;1489180639;mircea_popescu;can i run 64 in parallel ? 1624585;1489180801;Framedragger;in terms of thread-safety, yes (but not in benchmarking tool as it's not using thread-safe posix functions, but then it's not writing anything, either). however, parallel performance not at all certain. 1624586;1489180850;Framedragger;oh wait, i was wrong re thread-safe functions. kernel takes care of that. has internal locking mechanism when dealing with fread/fwrite etc. 1624587;1489180877;Framedragger;that said, i'm pessimistic about this whole ext4 thing just like asciilifeform. no reason not to direct time into his latest proposal 1624588;1489180947;mircea_popescu;it ~should~ work, i ask because man who burned tongue on soup 1624589;1489181037;Framedragger;apparently calling fclose() while syscall is running on that descriptor in another thread is 'not a good idea' (outcome maybe platform/implementation specific), but that's an avoidable corner case. 1624590;1489181045;Framedragger;may be* 1624591;1489181064;mircea_popescu;interesting what people looking to push the whore learn about its substance. 1624592;1489181125;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/zuleika-dobson-or-an-proper-love-story/ << Trilema - Zuleika Dobson, or An Proper Love Story 1624593;1489181167;mircea_popescu;^ me heartily recommends, this fundamental novel of the republic, to the critical eye of all. 1624594;1489181186;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624229 << at some point you'll have to decide if you care or don't care about the old harlot. 1624595;1489181186;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:54 asciilifeform: to rephrase, this would tell something useful if we had with what to directly compare it with -- what operation in ye olde bdb would this measure correspond to ? 1624596;1489181334;mod6;Framedragger: hey man, thanks! keep up the good work. 1624597;1489181415;Framedragger;mod6: thanks - was supposed to be busy with other stuff but this cute insane asylum is concerningly quite attracting :) 1624598;1489181510;asciilifeform;woah, fresh megatonne of mircea_popescu 1624599;1489181515;*;asciilifeform loads it into bed machine 1624600;1489181558;mod6;ah nice mircea_popescu! 1624601;1489181626;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624229 << for posterity, re. those last stats, relevant time-measurement c snippet for reference: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/NxLwl/?raw=true 1624602;1489181626;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:54 asciilifeform: to rephrase, this would tell something useful if we had with what to directly compare it with -- what operation in ye olde bdb would this measure correspond to ? 1624603;1489181652;asciilifeform;neato Framedragger 1624604;1489181861;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i did foreshadow. 1624605;1489181869;asciilifeform;aha, i recall 1624606;1489181875;asciilifeform;'expect massive b00k later this week' 1624607;1489181939;mircea_popescu;the people who actually have to work for their accomplishments a la beerbohm would no doubt be quite upset. 1624608;1489181972;mircea_popescu;how goes mod6 1624609;1489182234;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624235 << i thought this was entirely obvious, but yes. 1624610;1489182234;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:55 asciilifeform: ... so that a 256-bit turd, e.g., 3ec455a2a84e978687a3990cec73f36b324fbd28e03603c6d9fc52018b001558, can be taken and matched to a block # where said tx lives. 1624611;1489182260;asciilifeform;all algos begin with restatement of the obvious (e.g. 'this adds two integers') 1624612;1489182306;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624242 << this doesn't sound right. need more directory structure than just that wtf. 1624613;1489182306;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:58 Framedragger: (yeah btw, just ftr, symlink *creation* under populated dir structure (`ln -s files_f1/block35461.txt dc/dc89c1f2b58909d3814b250a731a9b9b791b092759553e3ba6579ffaad3a7565`) is slow. however, the creation was done using shellscript, need to move to c to be able to actually profile with precision.) 1624614;1489182355;mircea_popescu;dc89/c1f2/b589/09d3/814b/250a/731a/9b9b/791b/0927/5955/3e3b/a657/9ffa/ad3a/7565.symlink 1624615;1489182370;Framedragger;so here's the thing, if folder depth is increased, the actual numbers of symlinks per directory will be basically ~0, as per those graphs from earlier. 1624616;1489182377;mircea_popescu;aha. 1624617;1489182380;asciilifeform;btw creation of just about anything is 'pessimized for' by konsoomer fs -- because it is the rarest case on 'typical system' 1624618;1489182389;Framedragger;but on the other hand this'd benchmark/test directory traversal more. 1624619;1489182389;mircea_popescu;aha! 1624620;1489182418;mircea_popescu;Framedragger i didn't intend any distinctiuon betrween "symlink resolution" "directory traversal" et al. 1624621;1489182425;Framedragger;kk as long as we're clear - i've seen those "but what would happen with 1000s of symlinks in single folder!1" comments so thought that should be tested, etoo. 1624622;1489182436;Framedragger;ah right right. 1624623;1489182456;mircea_popescu;btw, the usg is out in force advertising its ersatz bitcoin. "etoro" taking out google advertising on my own name (no doubt along million other strings) and so on. 1624624;1489182467;Framedragger;well, *in principle* deeper traversal should really not be a problem at all. in practice - guess we shall see 1624625;1489182474;mircea_popescu;quite. 1624626;1489182486;mircea_popescu;no doubt in my mind the selva selvaggia be deep and readily surprising. 1624627;1489182509;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: etoro? 1624628;1489182520;mircea_popescu;some usg-approved "investment" scam. 1624629;1489182538;asciilifeform;denominated in, i can only guess, ethertardium? 1624630;1489182544;asciilifeform;or 0 relation..? 1624631;1489182547;mircea_popescu;"social trading brokerage". doing its best to eat the third world naivite. 1624632;1489182571;mircea_popescu;no, the bitcoin "etf" vehicle. give us dollars so we buy bitcoin "For you" thing. 1624633;1489182587;asciilifeform;iirc human names are not trademarkeable in usgdom, they can take out ads on you, me, mod6 , et al. whateverses. 1624634;1489182607;asciilifeform;they can always say 'ooh we meant ~this other~ mp' 1624635;1489182615;mircea_popescu;ah, i don;t particularly care. anyone googling me who ends up on etoro deserves his punishment. 1624636;1489182635;mircea_popescu;just pointing out, they've been spending by the million/day in hitler notes for the past week with this nonsense. 1624637;1489182651;asciilifeform;lulzy 1624638;1489182654;mircea_popescu;quite 1624639;1489182684;mircea_popescu;not unlike tv advertising to my chained girl, "a better life". really ? i think if she wanted that "better" she'd have found her way by now. 1624640;1489182688;asciilifeform;i guess some bean counter decided that this gambit has higher ev ~in btc~ than , e.g., nsa mining 1624641;1489182703;mircea_popescu;that is certain. the nsa is fast losing the tech battle. 1624642;1489182705;asciilifeform;'let's run our own pirate' 1624643;1489182714;mircea_popescu;+/- 1624644;1489182740;asciilifeform;kinda disgraceful, not like there isn't a usg 15nm fab or two still standing in upstate new york 1624645;1489182765;asciilifeform;could make miners, instead of whatever arse-penetrating radar controller golden toilet rubbish. for just one or two shifts. 1624646;1489182768;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624243 << does the lady know your only true love is strange addressing schemes ? 1624647;1489182768;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:59 asciilifeform: now you store the table as follows: the top 32 bits (e.g., 3ec455a2 from above) are an array index into this table 1624648;1489182790;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's literally the simplest physically possible scheme, read whole thread. (it is also NOT married to the 'magic numbers.') 1624649;1489182808;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform usg really can't make anything. you're basically saying "siliconed botoxed cali chick could cook a decent meal." of course she could. of course she won't. 1624650;1489182831;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i have to protest re the scheme. i'm merely needling you in my spare time. 1624651;1489182841;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i am not a psychiatrist, do not specialize in 'patient has arms, legs, nerves are fine, but he won't move'em' 1624652;1489182848;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1624653;1489182866;mircea_popescu;yet move - he won't. 1624654;1489182880;asciilifeform;this, if it was a mystery in 2014, is plainly visible today imho 1624655;1489182888;mircea_popescu;i said years back the race is won. but meanwhile the usg utterly lost it, ot little concern of anyone, itself included., 1624656;1489182899;mircea_popescu;the race is on* 1624657;1489182984;asciilifeform;( speaking of golden toilet, factory sent me a gold-plated ruler! complete with drill guide. -- yes, made of finest pcb . for lulz. ) 1624658;1489182988;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624254 << there are habits that die easy and habits that die hard. 1624659;1489182988;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:02 trinque: oh jesus docker Framedragger 1624660;1489183055;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y << spare time. 1624661;1489183201;asciilifeform;lul 1624662;1489183207;mircea_popescu;possibly their best. 1624663;1489183574;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624149 << this is a hosting co in hk, and domain peddler. betcha ~all~ of their shithosting offerings, are debianized. 1624664;1489183574;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 13:58 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/83747C8EA3613D6D3DEEEDE006197672FCB135ABA18188DB332E25098C44C765 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1650...4657 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '202.130.103.22 (ssh-rsa key from 202.130.103.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (wtt22.smartinfo.com.hk. HK) 1624665;1489183704;mircea_popescu;prolly. 1624666;1489183892;mircea_popescu;and in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtnTaUcMLjA 1624667;1489184166;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624278 << this blowing seems altogether a foregone conclusion. 1624668;1489184166;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:10 asciilifeform: if you're willing to blow another 16GB, you can have an l2 table 1624669;1489184277;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624290 << contiguity is the big problem. perhaps it can be resolved through "alternative starvation', as in, running naught else. but that is liable to run into the genius of "dwim" "modern" linuxhit 1624670;1489184277;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:14 Framedragger: i'm not sure if you do need driver 1624671;1489184323;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624297 << this sounds like a quite elegant solution, yes. 1624672;1489184323;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:16 asciilifeform: the Right Thing would probably be to have a very simple kernel driver that takes a specially-marked disk partition and gives userland trb linear use of it, as plain array 1624673;1489184334;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: but if you read further down, we were saying that it may be possible to just access a raw block device without kernel module :) 1624674;1489184349;mircea_popescu;meh. 1624675;1489184380;Framedragger;not that it's necessarily the way to go. but consider what asciilifeform was saying - one could just pass an already-opened file handle. handle to *whatever*. no ring0 driver, no root permissions. 1624676;1489184388;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624307 << it is the case, one collision a year sort of deal./ 1624677;1489184388;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:19 asciilifeform: it is statistically possible that we don't even have ONE collision yet 1624678;1489184393;Framedragger;(or, use linux cap to allow raw access, but that's maybe meh) 1624679;1489184415;mircea_popescu;Framedragger it sounds great on paper and then crashes irrecoverably six weeks in. 1624680;1489184464;Framedragger;if you have shitty code, you have shitty code. shitty code in kernel wreaks more havoc. 1624681;1489184469;mircea_popescu;the noion that hdd is usable or useful is a cute pipe-dream of the web generation, unsupported in cold reality. 1624682;1489184477;Framedragger;but yeh, maybe more exposure to userspace shite if not driver - maybe 1624683;1489184505;*;Framedragger hears wind swoosh as goalposts shifted at c velocity 1624684;1489184506;mircea_popescu;it's more the case that those 10k lines of ??? actually contain the mystery bullshit that makes the whole pile of crap evern work. 1624685;1489184554;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: (i thought with "sounds great on paper" you were responding to possible kernel module workarounds. but if you're against the *whole* idea, fair enough.) 1624686;1489184556;mircea_popescu;i don't think anyone correctly represents the tower of accidental good luck that stands between a disk seek and your desired pron. 1624687;1489184577;Framedragger;for schizzle. 1624688;1489184584;mircea_popescu;im not against the idea in the slightest. i'm just very unpersuaded by the theory hard drives work, to any spec, in any sanemanner. 1624689;1489184627;mircea_popescu;dispensing with the kernel's accumulated gunk comes at no cost to the wizard, but at disability to anyone else. 1624690;1489184706;Framedragger;kernel driver would work around userland fs specific stuff. but certainly not against disk seek, disk cache, etc. just to clarify 1624691;1489184723;Framedragger;(and yah i'm sure there's lots of crud in the former worth dropping..) 1624692;1489184736;mircea_popescu;afaik it bundles a lot fo that in 1624693;1489184739;mircea_popescu;,m 1624694;1489184754;*;mircea_popescu has seen architerctures where there were de facto 3 different disk caches 1624695;1489184819;Framedragger;ah, you're probably right. lots of fs-specific cache madness, too 1624696;1489184827;Framedragger;the wonder! 1624697;1489184894;mircea_popescu;yea 1624698;1489185163;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624352 << this is a major part of the savings in fsdb 1624699;1489185163;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:36 asciilifeform: that is, you don't need 8 bytes to say which 4kB slice has the beginning 1624700;1489185180;mircea_popescu;because yes, alf is entirely correct, the hdds piss out 4kb or more per call 1624701;1489185271;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624365 << quite so. 1624702;1489185271;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:43 asciilifeform: imho the 'hard part' is not even to implement this table, it is freshman homework, but to unravel the liquishit in trb and learn where to even put the lookup/write ! 1624703;1489185368;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> how goes mod6 << eh, it goes. getting ready to release V 99994 here soon. mom was diagnosed with stage 4 small cell cancer about 6 weeks ago -- so that's been pretty intense. 1624704;1489185385;mircea_popescu;o.o 1624705;1489185405;mod6;ikr. :/ 1624706;1489185406;mircea_popescu;that's not good. 1624707;1489185415;mircea_popescu;1 in 10 shot or what. 1624708;1489185420;mod6;3-6mo. 1624709;1489185438;mircea_popescu;some do survive it. but myeah. 1624710;1489185446;mod6;with chemo... could be 8-12. we don't think we'll do chemo tho. don't see much of a point. 1624711;1489185481;mircea_popescu;did she smoke ? 1624712;1489185499;mod6;like a chimney. still does. 1624713;1489185505;mircea_popescu;yeah. well... 1624714;1489185516;mod6;'tis what happens. 1624715;1489185662;mircea_popescu;sorry to hear. 1624716;1489185700;mod6;Thanks Sir. Me too. 1624717;1489185732;mod6;On a brighter note, about to setup a new trb node this weekend outside of aws. So that's awesome. 1624718;1489185812;mircea_popescu;yeah srs. 1624719;1489185850;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624297 << this sounds like a quite elegant solution, yes. << yeah, nice idea here. all of this is very exciting. 1624720;1489185850;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:16 asciilifeform: the Right Thing would probably be to have a very simple kernel driver that takes a specially-marked disk partition and gives userland trb linear use of it, as plain array 1624721;1489185850;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624370 << god help us. 1624722;1489185850;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 17:46 asciilifeform: or, for instance, what is ReadDiskTx . 1624723;1489185852;diana_coman;mod6, so sorry about that 1624724;1489185868;Framedragger;mod6: damn man, very sorry to hear that. 1624725;1489185870;Framedragger;bitcoin-out-of-the-cloud ftw. 1624726;1489185879;mod6;diana_coman, Framedragger: thanks 1624727;1489185882;mod6;<3 1624728;1489185975;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624374 < heh. though this be a taller order than meets the eye. 1624729;1489185975;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:01 trinque: god forbid the disk always be in a coherent state, eh? 1624730;1489186045;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624375 << confirmed, this is safe. just don't issue the -0 before it hd a chance to settle down. 1624731;1489186045;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:01 asciilifeform: trinque: i've found that 'kill', which syncs the db, followed by kill -9, which nukes shitoshi's pointless wait idiocy, worx 100%. 1624732;1489186056;mircea_popescu;-9* 1624733;1489186121;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624381 << very much so. reminiscent of ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-21#1379603 1624734;1489186121;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:02 asciilifeform: (some time grep for the sleeps, it is instructive) 1624735;1489186121;a111;Logged on 2016-01-21 13:29 asciilifeform: 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111' 1624736;1489186305;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624395 << your emulator stil lsucks what can i tell you. ai winter! 1624737;1489186305;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:12 asciilifeform: ( i can already picture mircea_popescu spitting out his breakfast, 'modern hdd dun have cylinder, you nut' -- except, it in effect DOES, fetches massive blox , whether mechanical or ssd, by design, for ages now ) 1624738;1489186343;mod6;heheh 1624739;1489186363;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624406 << they try; but yeah hehe. 1624740;1489186363;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:17 asciilifeform: do the arithmetic, it isn't as if anyone can cancel the 'block per 10min' thing. 1624741;1489186569;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624413 << this truly isn't a concern. 1624742;1489186569;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:20 asciilifeform: at any rate, working around this idiocy would be very cheap -- say we index by top32 of keccak(txid) instead of plain txid. in the event of. 1624743;1489186602;mod6;perhaps not. i like that we're thinking about things like this though. 1624744;1489186602;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624417 << this is not accountable in dollars. 1624745;1489186602;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:24 Framedragger: while at it, and i'm guessing it's in the logs.., i wonder when was the last time some tried to come up with an approximation what the costs to get to >50% network hashing power would be 1624746;1489186901;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624420 <<->> http://trilema.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/#footnote_3_50058 2013. 1624747;1489186901;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:24 asciilifeform: Framedragger: there was old thread with mircea_popescu , where he stated that usg and china attempted it at same time, and perma-deadlocked 1624748;1489187015;Framedragger;> 1 government, fair point 1624749;1489187037;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624436 no guarantees, but likel;y, yeah/ 1624750;1489187037;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:33 asciilifeform: (~guaranteed at 80 or so) 1624751;1489187193;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624446 << there may be a lot of merit in this. even l1-l4 implemented via kernel table may be faster than freestanding l1 with "occasonal" (to be defined) cache miss aka collision. 1624752;1489187193;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:40 asciilifeform: you can use x64's page table to 'cheat' and store a sparse form ! 1624753;1489187356;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624468 << very much this. 1624754;1489187356;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 18:57 asciilifeform: i'd like to think of an elegant solution to this 1624755;1489187443;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624481 << you can most assuredly cheat by you know, virgin hdd. but kludge of kludges and metatronium nonsense besides. 1624756;1489187443;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 19:11 asciilifeform: ( i wonder if there are any traditional fs that will actually give you 16G of contiguous blocks, if asked nicely ) 1624757;1489187506;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624496 << experimentally this is almost never above 50% 1624758;1489187506;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 19:19 asciilifeform: for completeness, i will note that you can model any 'whole disk' variant with an enormous flat file, in userland, at some speed penalty. 1624759;1489187591;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624508 << you also need a guarantee against being "slow" (term of art) 1624760;1489187591;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 19:33 asciilifeform: Framedragger: all you need is to check a read candidate against the current list of active writes. 1624761;1489187710;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624681 << fwiw i've used raw hdd for actual work. 1624762;1489187710;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 22:21 mircea_popescu: the noion that hdd is usable or useful is a cute pipe-dream of the web generation, unsupported in cold reality. 1624763;1489187730;asciilifeform;if you just need to store linear array of blox -- nothing beats raw hdd. fuck fs. 1624764;1489187820;mircea_popescu;myeah 1624765;1489187935;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624688 << if you're thinking of the iron failing -- i operate disks in raid5 (and for past couplea years -- raid5 of ssd; on this particular box in this particular room, for instance, 4 x 1tb ssd) : 0 detectable failures-with-loss of any kind. 1624766;1489187935;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 22:23 mircea_popescu: im not against the idea in the slightest. i'm just very unpersuaded by the theory hard drives work, to any spec, in any sanemanner. 1624767;1489187941;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624512 << rebalancing the tree is actually a terrible idea for bitcoin block storage. 1624768;1489187941;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 19:33 asciilifeform: Framedragger: but not right tool for ~this~ job 1624769;1489187962;mircea_popescu;because any arbitrart hash has equal chances to be seen as next hash as any other. 1624770;1489187968;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha! which is why i published an algo with 0 rebalance, today. 1624771;1489187973;mircea_popescu;this is exactly contrarty to the engineering assumption in "balancing" 1624772;1489188000;asciilifeform;(i sat down with the ext4 thing and very quickly came to the conclusion that it, and every other konsoomer fs, is 'pessimized' for our specific scenario) 1624773;1489188008;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, no, nothing of the kind. i was contemplating no hardware whatsoever, just the tower of crud that builds up to consumer fs 1624774;1489188013;Framedragger;ftr i didn't every say it was the right thing for bitcoin with uniformly distributed hashspace 1624775;1489188017;mircea_popescu;the rebalancing above a fine examplke of the fundamental problems. 1624776;1489188024;mircea_popescu;"your kink is not my kink" 1624777;1489188037;mircea_popescu;Framedragger yeah that's exactly it, the distributions 1624778;1489188118;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624517 << don't knock it too much, bunny-hop fuck-chair is fine tool for she who for the first time took her clothes off in public today. 1624779;1489188118;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 19:34 asciilifeform: Framedragger: i am increasingly finding that 'general purpose db' is, like the infamous 'vise-grip', The Wrong Tool For Every Job 1624780;1489188123;mircea_popescu;that nobody else uses it... well. 1624781;1489188132;mircea_popescu;there's still a lot of noobs. 1624782;1489188213;Framedragger;(also just for poterity it's not like you can't tell a decent db which indexing mechanism it should use. but i agree with main 'general tools are ~meh' sentiment) 1624783;1489188249;mircea_popescu;there is no practical way to tell postgresql to do slave reads ; nor any way to tell ~any db to do unbalancing btree stores. 1624784;1489188262;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624751 << ben_vulpes actually went off to calculate it, empirically!, earlier today, lessee what he comes back with 1624785;1489188262;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 23:06 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624446 << there may be a lot of merit in this. even l1-l4 implemented via kernel table may be faster than freestanding l1 with "occasonal" (to be defined) cache miss aka collision. 1624786;1489188262;mircea_popescu;this theory of yours crashes on the jagged shores of a meaner reality. 1624787;1489188298;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in any case this is turning into QUITE the course on caching! 1624788;1489188309;asciilifeform;( he asked 'what do' and i answered 'take all tx, from first to top of currentheight, and count how many share their senior 32bit ) 1624789;1489188311;mircea_popescu;compare and contrast with the mit offering. 1624790;1489188382;asciilifeform;soon we find out 'how many shared birthdays' 1624791;1489188421;asciilifeform;btw it may even be worth taking top 32 and bottom 32 and comparing (fuck knows, sha(sha(x)) could produce different ! distribution, for no entirely good reason, for each ) 1624792;1489188448;Framedragger;also just ftr, a b-tree by definition has every part of it be of the same depth. 'unbalancing b-tree' doesn't even make sense. but you could have 'just a normal tree', and one can implement custom indices. just pointing out 1624793;1489188455;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624528 << and this not worth doing, either, because just do p when it comes out and be done with it 1624794;1489188455;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 19:38 asciilifeform: trinque: then i'll need a cl pgp parser 1624795;1489188477;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha, i started at one point to do it, and realized 'wtf why' 1624796;1489188497;mircea_popescu;Framedragger i just meant "don't fucking rebalance my tree, behind the scenes, idiot!" 1624797;1489188522;mircea_popescu;(they do this, and they think they're smart for it, too.) 1624798;1489188522;Framedragger;right right :) 1624799;1489188588;Framedragger;ACID is not a bad idea yknow. i wonder if you could accomplish what you wanted with dirty slave reads via streaming replication or sth. but, eh. bbl, food 1624800;1489188596;mircea_popescu;psssh. 1624801;1489188615;Framedragger;(ya i know you pissed on it) 1624802;1489188628;mircea_popescu;acid is not a bad idea in the sense "valentine's day" is not a bad idea. 1624803;1489188654;Framedragger;more sex. more sex on acid. checks out. 1624804;1489188662;mircea_popescu;if you have no relationship with your whore, it will provide some anchor for pointless, idle pretense while you "focus on your career" 1624805;1489188727;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624534 << word, exactly. 1624806;1489188727;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 19:39 trinque: we'll make a CL lib for p 1624807;1489188845;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624551 << these are actually pretty encouraging as such 1624808;1489188845;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 20:31 Framedragger: some (very initial) symlink stats - more stuff will have to wait - given a "here are 1mn 'transactions' which symlink to files, resolve links and read from linked files in random order for 100mn times" setup, with one-folder-deep structure, like so: "simple_f1/e5/e5edc34c57d5ea2ea99cfe16d04655aa000c3d7f268022d2b21f95928fa34674 -> /files_f1/99997.txt", most basic stats are: 1624809;1489188869;mircea_popescu;fopen() times given 100000000 iterations: min = 1761 ns, max = 1506074 ns, avg = 2326.51 ns, << holy shit what. 1624810;1489188875;mircea_popescu;incidentally what is your ns counter method ? 1624811;1489188891;mircea_popescu;and what the fuck caused that outlier. 1624812;1489188919;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he posted the method, in the end of the thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624601 1624813;1489188919;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 21:33 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624229 << for posterity, re. those last stats, relevant time-measurement c snippet for reference: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/NxLwl/?raw=true 1624814;1489188936;mircea_popescu;ah shall get to it 1624815;1489188939;asciilifeform;and these outliers are always caused by a) interrupt b) cache miss 1624816;1489188951;BingoBoingo;Sorry to hear mod6, keep coming back 1624817;1489188968;asciilifeform;aha, hats off to mod6 1624818;1489188998;mircea_popescu;lol jurov cute 1624819;1489189019;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform always worth hounding down in my experience. 1624820;1489189048;mircea_popescu; time_elapsed_nanos = timer_end(time_init); << trhis is ns precision now ? 1624821;1489189061;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: his fopen() is smaller than a princely ssd's seek time. so thereby i could tell, his measurements had cache in play 1624822;1489189081;mircea_popescu;i do not trust his clock ; seems to be accurate within a few ms at best. 1624823;1489189083;Framedragger;struct timespec timer_start() { 1624824;1489189083;Framedragger; struct timespec start_time; 1624825;1489189084;Framedragger; clock_gettime(CLOCK_MONOTONIC, &start_time); 1624826;1489189084;Framedragger; return start_time; 1624827;1489189084;Framedragger;} 1624828;1489189085;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i hate to break this sad noose, but nothing on a konsoomer pc is accurate to ns 1624829;1489189089;asciilifeform;ever. 1624830;1489189091;mircea_popescu;right. 1624831;1489189094;asciilifeform;us -- IF you're lucky 1624832;1489189102;mircea_popescu;right. 1624833;1489189126;mircea_popescu;Framedragger you didn't measure anything mah boy! 1624834;1489189129;Framedragger;allegedly this is what folks use for high precision profiling. i checked and wrote trivial version of that. but yah, clock_gettime() 1624835;1489189133;*;asciilifeform has thought about installing a rubidium clock 1624836;1489189160;mircea_popescu;Framedragger consider using the recently discussed clocking method 1624837;1489189165;Framedragger;now they gonna talk about how one cant measure anything and need phuctor-made superclocks. kk. sure. but this is as accurate as it gets, sir 1624838;1489189173;*;Framedragger will read later, food 1624839;1489189181;Framedragger;what do you suggest, time() 1624840;1489189185;asciilifeform;Framedragger: try rdtsc 1624841;1489189198;Framedragger;ah that i've heard of. not without its problems iirc 1624842;1489189203;Framedragger;!# rdtsc 1624843;1489189205;asciilifeform;best you get on x86. 1624844;1489189205;mircea_popescu;no no, where the fuck is it 1624845;1489189207;Framedragger;!#srdtsc 1624846;1489189213;Framedragger;!#s rdtsc 1624847;1489189213;a111;3 results for "rdtsc", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rdtsc 1624848;1489189215;mircea_popescu;the people doing key extraction 1624849;1489189216;asciilifeform;literally, it dun get no better on x86, than it 1624850;1489189237;asciilifeform;it's just a register that increments with every tick of the main clock. 1624851;1489189238;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1541639 1624852;1489189238;a111;Logged on 2016-09-14 12:01 Framedragger: "rdtsc is not guaranteed to be available on every CPU, or to run at a constant rate, *or be consistent between different cores.*" (emphasis mine). `get_cycles()` is recommended, but from cursory look it seems that on some architectures it uses rdtsc internally? madness. 1624853;1489189248;asciilifeform;if your cpu dun have rdtsc, throw it out. 1624854;1489189250;asciilifeform;srsly. 1624855;1489189257;Framedragger;and alf responded to me then, actually - http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1541702 1624856;1489189257;a111;Logged on 2016-09-14 13:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1541639 << not only is this true, but you won't be seeing scientifically accurate nanosecond timing in a konsooomer box at all. the physical clock is not up to it. 1624857;1489189262;Framedragger;but yah fair enough may as well try 1624858;1489189265;asciilifeform;if it dun run at a constant rate: a) adjust your bios b) if fails, Throw it out!! 1624859;1489189267;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-06#1622520 <<< 1624860;1489189267;a111;Logged on 2017-03-06 17:22 mircea_popescu: the guys did actually splendid work, read the paper, worth it. 1624861;1489189270;Framedragger;that said, CLOCK_MONOTONIC ain't bad. 1624862;1489189278;mircea_popescu;use an incrementor. 1624863;1489189292;mircea_popescu;better clock than ~anything the kernel exposes, is the sad truth\ 1624864;1489189332;Framedragger;incrementor where, in another thread so that one may have more context switches for fun? those calls are blocking.. 1624865;1489189344;mircea_popescu;hm 1624866;1489189358;mircea_popescu;they are blocking aren't they 1624867;1489189378;Framedragger;i actually did check what was available before deciding on clock measurement yknow. but yah, need to try rdtsc 1624868;1489189383;asciilifeform;rdtsc is the ticket, it is how profilers time, and the only timer that is really worth twopence on x86. 1624869;1489189383;mod6;<+BingoBoingo> Sorry to hear mod6, keep coming back <+asciilifeform> aha, hats off to mod6 << thank you, Gentlemen. 1624870;1489189384;Framedragger;yeah 1624871;1489189389;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform actually are dma calls cpu blocking ?! 1624872;1489189392;asciilifeform;it resets on coldboot and increments with every tick thereafter 1624873;1489189402;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no, whole point is to copy from bucket a to b w/out using cpu 1624874;1489189410;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: (whole point of dma controller) 1624875;1489189422;mircea_popescu;right. 1624876;1489189427;asciilifeform;where in this mix do we get dma tho. 1624877;1489189437;mircea_popescu;still, on contemplation, hard to argue against rdtsc 1624878;1489189447;Framedragger;..but if one wants to measure fs performance, he's stuck with syscalls. 1624879;1489189452;Framedragger;suresure. 1624880;1489189463;mircea_popescu;yeah. ok, ok. rdtsc. 1624881;1489189490;mircea_popescu;he's right too, that's how profilers time also. 1624882;1489189491;asciilifeform;btw if you have a 'modern' comp, you will also have bizarre variation in wall clock timings because of smm idiocy 1624883;1489189524;Framedragger;asciilifeform: i thought that's why folks use CLOCK_MONOTONIC? i guess the irony is that it's not..monotonic in the end, still. :( 1624884;1489189526;asciilifeform;(cpu will stop to do ??????, maybe pack key logger buffer for later monthly upload to obummer, and undetectably, but rdtsc counter still ticks, it is lowtech) 1624885;1489189533;Framedragger;(vs. those other options there) 1624886;1489189549;asciilifeform;this is why it is a lost cause to try to do high precision profiling on a laptop 1624887;1489189559;asciilifeform;( it is handling smm routine many times per second ) 1624888;1489189570;*;Framedragger running on barebones xeon (not docker) nao, fwiw 1624889;1489189583;asciilifeform;more or less everything post-2011 comes with nonempty smm. 1624890;1489189601;asciilifeform;(if you want to find out what's in yours, you can disasm your bios, can be quite enlightening) 1624891;1489189623;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624795 << fwiw i have one written. it can do an equivalent of pgpdump, but knows only a subset of packet types. if there's any interest i can drive it towards a specific goal 1624892;1489189623;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 23:27 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, i started at one point to do it, and realized 'wtf why' 1624893;1489189644;asciilifeform;phf: consider publishing, it could come in quite handy at some point. 1624894;1489189652;asciilifeform;(say, when we look for sha1 collisions in pgpland) 1624895;1489189690;mircea_popescu;^ 1624896;1489189707;Framedragger;asciilifeform: something about needing to discard 'invalid values' with rdtsc (even when set up correctly - apparently best to 'pin' particular cpu, etc etc..) oh god. 1624897;1489189720;mircea_popescu;it's iffy but not unusuable 1624898;1489189726;asciilifeform;Framedragger: link to who proclaimed 'invalid values' wtf 1624899;1489189728;mircea_popescu;steal profiler timer code lel 1624900;1489189733;asciilifeform;thing is foolproof 1624901;1489189740;Framedragger;http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19941588/wrong-clock-cycle-measurements-with-rdtsc don't kill me plz 1624902;1489189750;Framedragger;first answer 1624903;1489189769;asciilifeform;'When Intel first invented the TSC it measured CPU cycles. Due to various power management features "cycles per second" is not constant; so TSC was originally good for measuring the performance of code (and bad for measuring time passed). For better or worse; back then CPUs didn't really have too much power management, often CPUs ran at a fixed "cycles per second" anyway. ...' 1624904;1489189774;asciilifeform;as i said just few min ago, 1624905;1489189778;asciilifeform;if this happens on your box, 1624906;1489189780;asciilifeform;and cannot be turned off, 1624907;1489189784;asciilifeform;!! THROW IT OUT !! 1624908;1489189789;mircea_popescu;heh 1624909;1489189792;asciilifeform;my clock runs at constant rate. 1624910;1489189795;asciilifeform;24/7. 1624911;1489189804;asciilifeform;within crystal's temp variation. 1624912;1489189820;asciilifeform;(i measured. and you, also, oughta measure, this is the kind of thing to be aware of in a well-run household) 1624913;1489189836;asciilifeform;and it bugs me that the mobo dun have a jack for a rubidium clock 1624914;1489189846;asciilifeform;( my fpga boards, the nicer ones, DO in fact !! ) 1624915;1489189851;asciilifeform;and incidentally FUCKGOATS also has !! 1624916;1489189855;asciilifeform;you can plug in own clock ! 1624917;1489189887;asciilifeform;'power management' is for the birds. 1624918;1489189897;mircea_popescu;save the planets alf! 1624919;1489189904;asciilifeform;the box i'm sitting in front of, draws 300w. this is not much. 1624920;1489189913;mircea_popescu;THINK OF AFREEKA 1624921;1489189925;phf;beats an xl1201 by a margin 1624922;1489189937;asciilifeform;phf: aha. doesn't sound like a jet turbine either 1624923;1489189942;asciilifeform;(my 3620 certainly does ) 1624924;1489189950;*;mircea_popescu just looked, he is drawing 3.5 kw with his boxen. this is before ac etc. 1624925;1489189961;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i meant 1 particular box 1624926;1489189965;mircea_popescu;yawell 1624927;1489189972;Framedragger;i must write a short comedy screenplay for how discussions develop in #trilema. "i want to take a picture" ... ... ... [intense calculations of incident gamma rays to reclaim lost pixels in images] [furious rehash of late renaissance representationalism] 1624928;1489190008;asciilifeform;phf: you dun run your 1201 24/7 do you. 1624929;1489190017;asciilifeform;(have pity on ye olde caps!) 1624930;1489190040;phf;no no, i'm missing console at the moment 1624931;1489190060;asciilifeform;broke? 1624932;1489190077;mircea_popescu;lol Framedragger . you prolly should. 1624933;1489190144;mircea_popescu;anyone ever read http://trilema.com/2012/sorana-comedie-bufa-intr-un-act/ ? 1624934;1489190150;phf;no, just haven't shipped it. i've been waiting for some friends to do west coast/east coast drive, but those always seem to NOT happen when you actually need them. i can boot it to do remote x11 though, was configured with the assumption that it will boot blind 1624935;1489190163;mircea_popescu;it has the distinction of being fashioned ~entirely out of police blotted / da filings verbatim. 1624936;1489190176;mircea_popescu;blotter* 1624937;1489190193;asciilifeform;phf: yeah i'm not sure why a xl1201 owner would even need the console 1624938;1489190210;asciilifeform;(i reverse-engineered the kbd, pretty sure was the first to publicly do so and post on www, you can build converter) 1624939;1489190447;phf;amusingly enough genera's clx is missing some x code for rendering bitmaps. meanwhile clx got ported out, worked on by a dozen of different teams, gender pronounced and ~still~ that code is missing, with the same disclaimer 1624940;1489190480;asciilifeform;know what doesn't help ? people's habit of NOT POSTING JACK SHIT 1624941;1489190491;asciilifeform;srsly, genera src was up since 2009, and I NEVER FOUND IT 1624942;1489190499;asciilifeform;despite looking ~monthly, ~weekly sometimes !! 1624943;1489190524;asciilifeform;because motherfucking 'people in the know' whispering like little girls 1624944;1489190528;asciilifeform;instead of POSTING 1624945;1489190606;phf;https://github.com/sharplispers/clx/blob/master/image.lisp#L1989 1624946;1489190632;asciilifeform;can i download phf's mac-patched, actually-builds genera somewhere ? or do i have to knock on a naugahyde-covered door in the bar from lsl and whisper 'ken sent me' and knock 3 times..? 1624947;1489190680;Framedragger;same parameters, averages a bit worse after fs cache and buffers are forced flushed: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/4IOGa/?raw=true 1624948;1489190737;asciilifeform;Framedragger: that's still below seek time of the best ssd, you're reading from cache. 1624949;1489190750;Framedragger;(oh actually variance higher, too) 1624950;1489190766;Framedragger;hm really? 1624951;1489190768;asciilifeform;the worst-case is probably closer to 'reality on the ground' than the avg. 1624952;1489190807;Framedragger;maybe another caching layer is still caching, hrgh. 1624953;1489190827;asciilifeform;Framedragger: your hdd iron itself is also caching 1624954;1489190880;Framedragger;right, yeah, but the (really) random seeks.. i hoped to tumble it a bit at least 1624955;1489190936;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624943 << can't argue with his point there. 1624956;1489190936;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 00:02 asciilifeform: because motherfucking 'people in the know' whispering like little girls 1624957;1489190962;Framedragger;ah i noted this myself and forgot, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-06#1622466 1624958;1489190962;a111;Logged on 2017-03-06 13:10 Framedragger: (just for posterity, other metrics say that consumer ssds seek average may be ~3ms.) 1624959;1489191029;mircea_popescu;Framedragger well you pared it down to ~2 caches, not so bad. 1624960;1489191052;asciilifeform;phf: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/Symbolics3600Keyboard.png and -- laboriously extracted empirically !! -- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix_keys.txt 1624961;1489191084;asciilifeform;is all you will ever need to drive the kbd (which kbd? EITHER of the 2 that they made, i have'em both here, and though their design differs electrically, they both obey this protocol ) 1624962;1489191095;Framedragger;...yeah, i think that the proper way to do it then is to take entire disk, populate it with things to a high degree and (somehow) with enough spatial dispersion, and benchmark, and restart entire thing between benchmarks. 1624963;1489191137;Framedragger;~maybe up for it but *that*'d have to wait till later 1624964;1489191289;asciilifeform;phf, incidentally, do you know that i blew MONTHS, if you add it up, possibly most of a year of life, sawing open 'snap4' genera in ida ? 1624965;1489191300;asciilifeform;without knowing that the motherfucking source IS PUBLIC ? 1624966;1489191310;Framedragger;oh god. 1624967;1489191336;mircea_popescu;lol 1624968;1489191345;asciilifeform;motherFUCKing whisperers. 1624969;1489191354;mircea_popescu;dude that is the saddest story... 1624970;1489191374;asciilifeform;if some unknown d00d had not written to me last night, even now i might be doing it 1624971;1489191387;asciilifeform;(i came back to it regularly, whenever didn't feel like working on anything else) 1624972;1489191403;asciilifeform;since 2009 or so!! 1624973;1489191403;mircea_popescu;my heart goes out. 1624974;1489191407;asciilifeform;no, laugh. 1624975;1489191416;asciilifeform;google, for instance, managed not to find it ON SHITHUB 1624976;1489191418;asciilifeform;where it lay. 1624977;1489191423;asciilifeform;where it lies still!! 1624978;1489191435;mircea_popescu;here, have a girl in full regalia http://68.media.tumblr.com/038c5f274a5691b022e20d0c194b085f/tumblr_o2mzt8sLry1urlmkko1_1280.jpg 1624979;1489191441;asciilifeform;it was not on some obscure 13333337w4r3z in ru or wat. 1624980;1489191444;asciilifeform;SHITHUB 1624981;1489191444;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform google is worthless. 1624982;1489191449;asciilifeform;yeah but this is a new low. 1624983;1489191453;mircea_popescu;tru 1624984;1489191494;phf;your approach to sourcing this info is by googling, while actually getting in touch with people who might know is derided as "whispering". while the content's been published and public since forever, those who follow along presumbly knew since then 1624985;1489191498;asciilifeform;i even mentioned it before... http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-12#1466172 1624986;1489191498;a111;Logged on 2016-05-12 14:42 asciilifeform: (either that or the 'snap4' emulator source code) 1624987;1489191508;asciilifeform;and did phf bother to mention the public existence of src ? 1624988;1489191510;asciilifeform;nope. 1624989;1489191516;asciilifeform;i assume he 'assumed that asciilifeform knew' ... 1624990;1489191560;asciilifeform;phf: i publicly struggled with reversing every piece of smbx gear i could get my hands on. chronicled on my www. 1624991;1489191564;mircea_popescu;phf he has a strong case though. no blogs, no mirrors, jack shit. "oh we knew. github." cmon. 1624992;1489191576;mircea_popescu;it's not a defensible sharing of the power in any conceivable desing. 1624993;1489191651;asciilifeform;there is a long, rotten tradition here, mircea_popescu , ofthis 1624994;1489191672;asciilifeform;for instance, i struggled to find the genera source, and then YEARS later i found out that 'the whisperers' have been quietly passing it around 1624995;1489191702;asciilifeform;and nobody thought to maybe tell asciilifeform , or even post on normal warez LIKE A MAN omfg 1624996;1489191717;asciilifeform;first thing i did when i got hold of it is to put on warez, worldwide, same day 1624997;1489191755;asciilifeform;srsly, folx, you passed around leaked winblows source, and nsa, etc, like it were candy, but not this ? 1624998;1489191756;asciilifeform;why not ? 1624999;1489191811;asciilifeform;yer more afraid of old ~defunct corp with 60k (look it up, usaspending.gov) than of riaa, mpaa, cia ? 1625000;1489191836;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1538493 1625001;1489191836;a111;Logged on 2016-09-09 15:21 asciilifeform: and violates the principle of nothing-to-allcomers. 1625002;1489191847;asciilifeform;phf: asciilifeform is 'all-comer' ? 1625003;1489191864;asciilifeform;!!gettrust phf 1625004;1489191864;deedbot;L1: 3, L2: 16 by 8 connections. 1625005;1489191874;asciilifeform;mutual l1, neh 1625006;1489191899;phf;yes, but i can't speak for other "whisperers" 1625007;1489191904;Framedragger;i don't think he meant himself, but rather other, external wots. 1625008;1489191929;asciilifeform;Framedragger: some of these people wrote to me re the 3620 1625009;1489191933;asciilifeform;NOBODY mentioned the shithub 1625010;1489191950;Framedragger;well, that is pretty fucky and sad. 1625011;1489191952;asciilifeform;dks even mentioned the warez install cd to me 1625012;1489191967;Framedragger;lol, what can i tell you, sad state of affairs 1625013;1489191972;asciilifeform;even gave me an 'illicit' copy of snap5, when i bought a genera license for my usg lab at the time 1625014;1489191978;asciilifeform;but DID NOT MENTION the shithub. 1625015;1489191996;asciilifeform;Framedragger: dks , if you didn't know, is the last known paid employee of smbx co. 1625016;1489192000;Framedragger;gave illicit copy of same thing? uh 1625017;1489192014;asciilifeform;he sells (sold ? afaik he ran out.. ) all that was left to sell 1625018;1489192018;Framedragger;aha, mk 1625019;1489192026;asciilifeform;old lispms, and Official Copies of genera 1625020;1489192085;asciilifeform;Framedragger: it wasn't 'of same thing', it was just an x64 binary 1625021;1489192088;asciilifeform;no src 1625022;1489192130;Framedragger;yeah but that's what i meant by same, gave closed copy the source version of which was available (and known to him, presumably?) 1625023;1489192144;asciilifeform;Framedragger: tbh i have nfi if he knew 1625024;1489192155;asciilifeform;he knew that the alpha installer was on torrent, tho. 1625025;1489192162;asciilifeform;even laughed about it. 1625026;1489192165;asciilifeform;so probably knew. 1625027;1489192183;asciilifeform;anyway this is probably all anyone needs of this 'mean girls' film 1625028;1489192252;asciilifeform;but imho it is instructive. 1625029;1489192266;asciilifeform;and tells something about why to this day we don't have an fpga bolix. 1625030;1489192281;Framedragger;yeah. :( wow. 1625031;1489192287;asciilifeform;(for instance, in that YEAR i could have been making one. was quite inclined to, but didn't have the instruction set !!) 1625032;1489192312;asciilifeform;nor any way to get it. 1625033;1489192341;asciilifeform;tried 'humint' even. asked dks, for instance, to name a price (he wouldn't) 1625034;1489192373;asciilifeform;made friends with d00d who worked in ai lab, he gave me a working alpha (i was a student, and had $0) and FULL set of bolix docs. which i still have. 1625035;1489192381;asciilifeform;*had worked in 1625036;1489192393;asciilifeform;guess what, HE WAS NOT in 'whisperer' wot either.. apparently. 1625037;1489192447;asciilifeform;i seriously have nfi! what, all of you people thought 1) smbx has a commercial future 2) it will punish you for leaking (or reward for silence ?!!!) 1625038;1489192449;asciilifeform;srsly??? 1625039;1489192459;Framedragger;they must have really low self esteem to require this kind of labyrinthine way of pretending to themselves to be real important nao 1625040;1489192483;asciilifeform;i have deeply nfi 1625041;1489192540;asciilifeform;it's one thing to scan schematics, and post, i forgive phf for not having gotten around to this chore (he proclaimed to intend it a year or so ago iirc) because it is a heavy labour 1625042;1489192554;asciilifeform;but how about POINTING to PUBLIC src omfg. 1625043;1489192558;*;asciilifeform bbl, frothing 1625044;1489192937;phf;the timing of this rant is amusing, because i'm flying out to dks's tomorrow. which is why last time we talked about it i ~explicitly asked you not to rant about this in public~. if nobody cares about symbolics proper, then people certainly do care about the fickle opinions of older men, who are sitting on irreplaceable treasure troves of smbx technology. 1625045;1489192960;asciilifeform;phf: this is proving my point. 1625046;1489192998;asciilifeform;also it boggles my mind, why is phf still buying the old iron, the instruction set's been out since '09... buy fpga board. 1625047;1489193016;asciilifeform;what's still in that treasure chest, that phf -- or anybody else -- wants?! 1625048;1489193065;phf;is that a legitimate question, or rhetorics for log? 1625049;1489193069;asciilifeform;legit 1625050;1489193086;asciilifeform;i can't speak for others, but my objective since day 0 has been to get that instruction set. 1625051;1489193109;asciilifeform;so the machine can exist again. forever, like commodore 64 exists. and not on 20 d00d's shelves,while the capacitors work. 1625052;1489193168;asciilifeform;nobody's gonna 'legit manufacture' it, phf , even if dks and that nsa d00d who owns him, do an 'official' release. 1625053;1489193212;phf;you're making a lot of assumptions, about goals and strategies of others 1625054;1489193214;asciilifeform;and yes this is what various reddit anons told me in 2010, 'we pray for LEGIT RELEASE!11' 1625055;1489193229;asciilifeform;phf: i have 0 idea of what is the goal of others. can only infer. 1625056;1489193248;asciilifeform;it, very clearly, is not to put the necessary info to rebuild the machine, out in the open asap. 1625057;1489193268;asciilifeform;it is very obviously something else. but what that something else is -- i am not privy to. 1625058;1489193291;asciilifeform;( to go on the board of a rebuilt smbx co ?? i have nfi. ) 1625059;1489193312;asciilifeform;anyway this thread is not a personal stick to poke at phf, but at ~all~ of the culprits. 1625060;1489193314;asciilifeform;they know who they are. 1625061;1489193319;asciilifeform;and imho oughta Feel Bad. 1625062;1489193366;asciilifeform;this includes dks, incidentally, who wouldn't even answer my mail after my lab closed down 1625063;1489193379;asciilifeform;much less to tell me about the magical shithub 1625064;1489193392;asciilifeform;after i spent 1k of own funbux, and 9k of usa's, in his shop. 1625065;1489193974;phf;fwiw, i'm not buying "old iron", and you'll know why i'm going there if you dig up literally the last set of pms we exchanged. 1625066;1489194075;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624960 << http://kbdbabel.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/kbdbabel/kbdbabel/kbdbabel-symbolics-ps2/ 1625067;1489194075;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 00:10 asciilifeform: phf: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/Symbolics3600Keyboard.png and -- laboriously extracted empirically !! -- http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bolix_keys.txt 1625068;1489194121;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well... quietly. 1625069;1489194134;mircea_popescu;the problem is one of indexing not properly of publishing. 1625070;1489194170;asciilifeform;phf: oh neato, can you buy kbdbabel ? 1625071;1489194199;asciilifeform;also phf yes i recall why you were going. but in light of the instruction set being out... my mind boggles, why to bother with ANYTHING but fpgaization pronto. 1625072;1489194214;asciilifeform;srsly. what have all of you whisperin' folk been ~thinking~ since '09. 1625073;1489194236;mircea_popescu;fpga still cost moneyz yes 1625074;1489194254;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: one of the necessary size, is about fiddybux eat. in qty1. 1625075;1489194256;asciilifeform;*each 1625076;1489194276;asciilifeform;can run with sram, even, afaik no smbx box shipped with more than 24M or so. 1625077;1489194287;asciilifeform;the entire machine would handily fit in my ~smallest~ fpga board. 1625078;1489194302;asciilifeform;just like nintendo fits. 1625079;1489194316;*;mircea_popescu has nothing\ 1625080;1489194335;phf;i think the implication is that "whisperers" are so poor (being dirty redditors) they can't even buy a cheap fpga 1625081;1489194347;asciilifeform;i won't telepsychoanalyze phf or any other of the other folx. but i gotta wonder wtf was in their heads. 1625082;1489194365;asciilifeform;phf: if there is one thing bolix aficionados is not, is poor. 1625083;1489194379;asciilifeform;what's an 'ivory' cost, 3k usd? 4 ? 1625084;1489194407;mircea_popescu;phf so far i'm just trying to probe this crater, i have nfi what's going on. 1625085;1489194419;mircea_popescu;he does prima facie seem to have a point, just not altogether sure what it is. 1625086;1489194469;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: since '09 or so i was one of very few people publicly interested in reversing the bolix gear. and apparently ~all of the aficionados, saw me as 'dangerous fool' who 'might piss off dks'... 1625087;1489194481;mircea_popescu;is it ? 1625088;1489194513;asciilifeform;is which 1625089;1489194533;mircea_popescu;is it the case that's what they thought etc. 1625090;1489194552;asciilifeform;i don't have a cable into their heads, cannot say for certain what the cockroaches therein were doing. 1625091;1489194562;asciilifeform;can only deduce. 1625092;1489194598;mircea_popescu;but fwiw, i don't credit the "irreplaceable treasure" theory. 1625093;1489194603;asciilifeform;deducing not only from http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625044 but from the few dozen comments when the warez came out 1625094;1489194603;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 00:42 phf: the timing of this rant is amusing, because i'm flying out to dks's tomorrow. which is why last time we talked about it i ~explicitly asked you not to rant about this in public~. if nobody cares about symbolics proper, then people certainly do care about the fickle opinions of older men, who are sitting on irreplaceable treasure troves of smbx technology. 1625095;1489194610;mircea_popescu;sbmx is worth ~0 today, on its own merit through its own work. 1625096;1489194649;mircea_popescu;it is ~the inept old men~ that MUST care about ~our~ opinions. 1625097;1489194661;mircea_popescu;i can't bring myself to move my piss away from dks, or anyone in his generation's face. 1625098;1489194668;asciilifeform;^^^ 1625099;1489194673;mircea_popescu;let them fucking drown, maggots below the stinkiest whore. 1625100;1489194682;mircea_popescu;all. and their mothers and their daughters with them. 1625101;1489194760;mircea_popescu;the time for thinking them worth > price of christian burial was, maybe, at the latest, 2007. certainly not 2017. 1625102;1489194790;asciilifeform;i also suspect that the folks sitting on 4-10k worth of 'ivories' don't relish them suddenly being worth what nintendo is worth. 1625103;1489194799;asciilifeform;is possibly other reason why they did not care to help me fpgaize it. 1625104;1489194811;phf;well, we've established that whatever i'm doing in that space is avocation. so the "worth" is entirely subjective 1625105;1489194818;mircea_popescu;dude... 10k. a 1% of a real estate deal gone south. who cares. 1625106;1489194843;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's a 'rembrandt', was expected to go 'to the moon' 1625107;1489194866;mircea_popescu;phf the worth is always an objective, public matter. that you like inept whore / bad painting / whatever in your own livingroom does not make it worth anything. 1625108;1489194880;asciilifeform;and it's tru, the surplus 1201 was free (rubbish dumps) in late '90s, maybe 500 bux in 2000, but now costs 3-10k 1625109;1489194886;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyone doing the rembrandt moon game has thousands of different ones, does not care. 1625110;1489194894;mircea_popescu;if cares, is approximately wigger in a different wig. 1625111;1489194920;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the contemplated pathology is that of that ro d00d who owned ~1~ rembrandt 1625112;1489194933;mircea_popescu;yawell. 1625113;1489194951;mircea_popescu;ftr it's still not altogether clear to me what went on ; and bad indexing still parsimonious explanation anyway. 1625114;1489194955;asciilifeform;and, quite verily, they WILL be worth roughly their worth in gold reclamation, if fpga appears. 1625115;1489194964;mircea_popescu;maybe they simply did not grok they had item you wanted, it happens. 1625116;1489194970;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: maaaaany years of 'bad indexing' 1625117;1489194974;mircea_popescu;yep 1625118;1489194982;asciilifeform;the ai lab d00d also had nfi that the source existed. 1625119;1489194985;mircea_popescu;that's the distinguishing feature of it - as many years as until you notice. 1625120;1489194987;asciilifeform;also i WROTE TO BRAD PARKER 4 TIMES 1625121;1489194993;asciilifeform;he never answered. 1625122;1489195003;asciilifeform;i wrote to motherfucking kalman reti, phf 1625123;1489195011;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform here's the problem : your algo (talk to peaks) is provedly, and notoriously, bad for breaking out of bad indexing tarpit. 1625124;1489195013;asciilifeform;i wrote to him as a LICENSED BUYER 1625125;1489195026;asciilifeform;as a signer of a motherfucking 9k cheque 1625126;1489195028;mircea_popescu;gotta maintain network IN BREADTH (lol ben_vulpes !) to fight that problem 1625127;1489195029;asciilifeform;0 reply. 1625128;1489195034;mircea_popescu;no matter all this. 1625129;1489195047;mircea_popescu;you know exactly what i'm saying. peak talk is no solution to bad index. 1625130;1489195058;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was answering, in extended form, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624984 1625131;1489195058;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 00:18 phf: your approach to sourcing this info is by googling, while actually getting in touch with people who might know is derided as "whispering". while the content's been published and public since forever, those who follow along presumbly knew since then 1625132;1489195068;mircea_popescu;still. 1625133;1489195069;asciilifeform;i definitely was not 'limited to googling.' 1625134;1489195083;mircea_popescu;but you also did not cast a 10`000 whores net. 1625135;1489195089;asciilifeform;i dun have 10`000 whores. 1625136;1489195094;mircea_popescu;this is not germane. 1625137;1489195097;asciilifeform;huminted with own miserable body, every muscle of it. 1625138;1489195107;mircea_popescu;the solution to bad indexing is a lot of dirty nodes, not a few "l1" ones. 1625139;1489195114;phf;^ 1625140;1489195126;mircea_popescu;and this is a very important point, and cogent throughout, including re trb-i design 1625141;1489195208;asciilifeform;i wrote to more or less everybody who more or less so much as mentioned having heard of a lispm. 1625142;1489195213;mircea_popescu;nor do i mean it as a belittlement. obviously train runs on tracks, car runs on road but lower efficiency ; 4wd needs not road even worse efficiency etc. you are what you are -- but just so, the problem is what it is. 1625143;1489195217;mircea_popescu;keep yer cool with it. 1625144;1489195226;asciilifeform;wrote to the lmi d00d, convinced him to open the lmi sources ! successfully! 1625145;1489195232;asciilifeform;(which helped 0 with smbx) 1625146;1489195236;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying it never works! 1625147;1489195255;mircea_popescu;i'm saying you can't rely on it always working! cache misses are a thing, local maxima capture is a thing, whadda ya want 1625148;1489195260;mircea_popescu;not like you don't know all this, abstractly. 1625149;1489195270;asciilifeform;the thing that boggles my mind, mircea_popescu , is that quite a few of these people ~knew~ what i was trying to do, and did not want it to happen. 1625150;1489195276;mircea_popescu;eh\ 1625151;1489195277;phf;i don't know anyone who has direct line of communication to kalman, short of dks, but brad parker is notoriously spotty at communication and 4 emails is ~simply not enough~ 1625152;1489195277;asciilifeform;which would seem to run contrary to their professed aims. 1625153;1489195292;mircea_popescu;look, you're overintegrated. 1625154;1489195297;asciilifeform;phf: i was given him as a paid support . 1625155;1489195309;asciilifeform;worst paid support ever. 1625156;1489195314;asciilifeform;0 answered mails. 1625157;1489195316;mircea_popescu;"see that chick at the table two over ? no don't look! yeah! so she knows i'm trying to get laid, and doesn't want me to get laid!!11" 1625158;1489195317;mircea_popescu;cmon. 1625159;1489195362;mircea_popescu;phf emails also basically suck. who even reads them. do they even arrive anymore ? etc. 1625160;1489195391;asciilifeform;picture this, mircea_popescu , 100% of d00d's income comes from pentagon, and he won't answer a .mil mail. 1625161;1489195413;asciilifeform;there exists 0 .mil spam. 1625162;1489195437;asciilifeform;it simply isn't athing, like there is no used chewing gum on the moon. 1625163;1489195448;mircea_popescu;tru story : i wrote to romanian minister of foreign affairs incensed romanian consul failed to answer my emails. turns out... clever spamfilter, woman was mortified. 1625164;1489195450;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1625165;1489195459;asciilifeform;i could, with difficulty, believe, sure. 1625166;1489195471;mircea_popescu;hey, it never occured to me, or them, until it occured. 1625167;1489195486;asciilifeform;but same thing happening, every single fucking time, all the way up to phf staying mum re the src. 1625168;1489195493;asciilifeform;it just melts my poor brains. 1625169;1489195496;mircea_popescu;hm 1625170;1489195504;mircea_popescu;phf why was it you didn't link him again ? 1625171;1489195616;phf;asciilifeform comes on very strong with the whole "i know" shtick, so i simply assumed that he knows what he wants to know. 1625172;1489195651;asciilifeform;i'll buy this, because i'd rather buy this than 'phf is afraid of smbxmasons revenge' 1625173;1489195658;mircea_popescu;ie never occured to you he never saw the link ? 1625174;1489195671;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's such rank nonsense, the fuck would anyone care. 1625175;1489195748;mircea_popescu;instead, buy this : there is A COST to, eg, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623621 1625176;1489195748;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 02:12 asciilifeform: kindergartener knows 1625177;1489195750;phf;it never occured that he wanted the link. when he said "i want snap4 source" i assumed he's talking about the original alpha source, or a complete working lispm emulator from scratch, a spherical horse of "working, readable lispm emulator", rather then what's actually there 1625178;1489195762;mircea_popescu;different apparently from merely the momentary rhetorical issue. 1625179;1489195806;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: does, e.g., http://www.loper-os.org/?p=52 and http://www.loper-os.org/?p=53 read like work of someone who 'already knows all' ? 1625180;1489195810;phf;he's welcome, in his own words, to "go, implement". having read that code, i'm unconvinced that it's the "buddha's front gate" to a working lispm fpga 1625181;1489195818;asciilifeform;why would i buy the machine and haul it up into my flat to saw it open, if 'already knew all' 1625182;1489195825;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there.is.a.cost.to.kindergartner.knows.device. 1625183;1489195848;asciilifeform;phf: you're quite right that it isn't. thing is an astonishing pile of gnarl. but all of the necessary info, is ~inside~ it, just like 'bitcoin' lives inside the rubbish of trb 1625184;1489195855;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: may be 1625185;1489195860;mircea_popescu;is. 1625186;1489195866;mircea_popescu;you just, in my estimation, bit it. 1625187;1489195897;mircea_popescu;not that there's anything wrong with it, as a device. it's funny, even. but if man becomes his devices man misses out on things which, upon examination, man did not want to miss. 1625188;1489195928;asciilifeform;i did mention http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598449 for instance. 1625189;1489195928;a111;Logged on 2017-01-07 19:02 asciilifeform: all i got, for the most part, is what is in the wall-o-deadtree manuals, and what i gleaned from reversing 'snap4' binary in ida. 1625190;1489195935;asciilifeform;was it possible to misread this as 'he has the src' ? 1625191;1489195954;mircea_popescu;unlikely, in light of this conversation, but yes, in light of the bias load. 1625192;1489195963;asciilifeform;i also uttered http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623406 for instance. 1625193;1489195963;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 23:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did describe earlier, having concluded a few yrs ago that it is cheaper, easier, moar pleasant, to cut appart 'snap4' emulator (i have a pc build here ~with debug symbols~, comes apart in ida nicely) than to suffer with nitric acid and electron microscope 1625194;1489195995;mircea_popescu;any one line is also passible of having been skipped / partially parsed and then silently dumped / etc. 1625195;1489196003;asciilifeform;sure. 1625196;1489196017;asciilifeform;and nobody ever put 'snap4' into the search box, to find out wtf it was. 1625197;1489196034;mircea_popescu;and yes, i understand how fucking petryfing and utterly enraging this is, "shit, wtf do these dorks sit on i need and they won't say" 1625198;1489196061;asciilifeform;well, for instance, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-19#1615635 1625199;1489196061;a111;Logged on 2017-02-19 17:37 phf: i'm not sure, but i remember you have to put a handful of magic incantations to live fix clx on genera to make it connect to crapple's x11 1625200;1489196078;asciilifeform;now if phf dun wanna publish his src, whateverses, who am i to say that he must 1625201;1489196102;mircea_popescu;he might also not have a more useful clue than quoted. 1625202;1489196104;asciilifeform;but it's a bit rich to talk about a 'community' of smbx people that doesn't share with asciilifeform 'because it doesn't know' 1625203;1489196108;mircea_popescu;not like he's 65. 1625204;1489196120;mircea_popescu;there's no "smbx community". 1625205;1489196123;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6850990FBF120FDFEE3B833114382DD945ED65AEAA5BCBCCFFC82C391E34AE5E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1496...4059 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.81.115.100 (ssh-rsa key from 80.81.115.100 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown ES CS VC) 1625206;1489196123;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6850990FBF120FDFEE3B833114382DD945ED65AEAA5BCBCCFFC82C391E34AE5E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1390...8517 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.81.115.100 (ssh-rsa key from 80.81.115.100 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown ES CS VC) 1625207;1489196152;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: actually there is, it includes illustrious folx like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623419 1625208;1489196152;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 23:57 asciilifeform: this isn't the only 1 on the net, either, i found several, they bought lispms, one took hundreds of photos of himself 'hipstering' near it, then one final one where it (??!) burned down 1625209;1489196184;mircea_popescu;the "set of people who bought lispm" have nfi what lispm even is, on average. 1625210;1489196187;asciilifeform;and brad parker, very literate d00d who ported genera emulator to x64 1625211;1489196203;asciilifeform;and kalman reti, official maintainer, sent me -- a PAYING buyer -- 0 patches 1625212;1489196211;asciilifeform;and dks, and whole orchestra. 1625213;1489196240;mircea_popescu;and rms went to glbse "conference". and and. 1625214;1489196243;mircea_popescu;they're idiots, what. 1625215;1489196249;asciilifeform;rms, the talking mushroom, is not connected 1625216;1489196250;mircea_popescu;if they weren't idiots, they'd be here. 1625217;1489196281;mircea_popescu;person > 50yo, their brain likely isn't connected. to anything. 1625218;1489196290;asciilifeform;dks is ~90 yr old now 1625219;1489196293;asciilifeform;i forgive him all 1625220;1489196297;asciilifeform;but other folx --. 0 excuse. 1625221;1489196327;phf;literally none of these people are directly in my wot, and my interactions with them are as frustrating as yours. but with patience you can extract useful things out of them. yours and mp's conclusion is that there's nothing of worth there, well then! 1625222;1489196350;asciilifeform;phf: i can't speak for mircea_popescu , but i don't specialize in hasty conclusions 1625223;1489196351;mircea_popescu;phf my conclusion is built out of a lot of disinterest, mind. 1625224;1489196356;mircea_popescu;i truly couldn't care less. 1625225;1489196378;asciilifeform;if , for example, there are detailed design docs, or yet-nonpublic sources in there, phf is well justified in his continued skulduggery perhaps 1625226;1489196394;phf;i think there's a lot of general "couldn't care less"-ness going on all around. whisperers don't care about asciilifeform's plight 1625227;1489196399;mircea_popescu;ie, they may have proven themselves to you, but they have not to me. as far as im concerned, stroutsup = dks = tim swanson = leah what's her ass = etcetera. 1625228;1489196405;asciilifeform;but even so it's a bit rich , to silently watch asciilifeform considering to buy electron microscope, to get at WHAT PHF HAD IN HIS POCKET already omfg. 1625229;1489196408;mircea_popescu;i expect, yes. 1625230;1489196487;phf;asciilifeform: i don't think that's a wasted effort. i got in touch with zeptobars people again, and my current best option (since they said shipping to russia is maddness) is to travel moscows sometime in summer and hand deliver the chip. assuming that i have one, but i take it you're no longer interested since "snap4 source" 1625231;1489196506;asciilifeform;phf: you can have for cost of postage ! 1625232;1489196521;mircea_popescu;i mail to/fro russia all teh time ? 1625233;1489196529;asciilifeform;srsly, i'm not one of them weird folx who whisper around. phf can have the iron, or gpggram where to send. 1625234;1489196554;asciilifeform;also i never had any problems mailing to ru 1625235;1489196561;asciilifeform;this must be new 1625236;1489196562;phf;i'd rather not loose a chip in transit, and since avocation, i don't care about time frames. 1625237;1489196569;asciilifeform;tru 1625238;1489196570;mircea_popescu;there is also that i guess. 1625239;1489196577;asciilifeform;sorta how i hand-delivered sample rng to c3 1625240;1489196630;asciilifeform;and anyway now that the bizarre kabuki re ' asciilifeform must not get the src !' is blown (is it blown ? or is there yet moar..?) maybe folx can publish, like sane people 1625241;1489196641;mircea_popescu;they will lose random single digit % of mailings inexplicably impredictably and irrecoverably. 1625242;1489196687;asciilifeform;anyway phf i meant american postbox 1625243;1489196696;asciilifeform;say where it wants to go, i'll fedex it, at own expense. 1625244;1489196699;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/02831AAF0259AD51745CBD51091D0E7AD30A88584C00EFBFFAA8D60024DC398B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1631...9839 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.184.118 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.184.118 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1625245;1489196699;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/02831AAF0259AD51745CBD51091D0E7AD30A88584C00EFBFFAA8D60024DC398B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1424...1989 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.90.184.118 (ssh-rsa key from 93.90.184.118 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1625246;1489196891;phf;i would very much like to start a clandestine operation called "the whisperers", but since it's not in the logs, someone else will have to do it 1625247;1489196933;mircea_popescu;the mare whisperers. do horse porn with it. 1625248;1489196946;phf;our sole objective will be making all the asciilifeform's assumptions true 1625249;1489196993;mircea_popescu;even now, you understand this alfie, EVEN NOW there's girls spreading for random dorks somewhere notwithstanding you're looking for a girl just like them. and they won't as much as whatsapp a notification to you! 1625250;1489197083;*;mircea_popescu briefly imagines how a world like that would be, where he;'d get notifications of every vaguely eligible bachelorette on an hourly basis. good god what a terrible crapsack fit for sf. 1625251;1489197106;mircea_popescu;suppose in the future that's how it works, dating consists of about 5bn notifications ~per capita~ of "hey, x is about to go out with $randomdude" 1625252;1489197140;trinque;pretty sure that's how it works now 1625253;1489197147;mircea_popescu;oh ? 1625254;1489197157;mircea_popescu;holy shit, facebook does this doesn't it 1625255;1489197161;trinque;aha 1625256;1489197186;trinque;"such and so went to X and look here are pictures of them drinking bad booze in plastic cups" 1625257;1489197431;mircea_popescu;i even knew this! say eg http://trilema.com/2015/el-defloreador-tum-tum-tudum-tum-tum/ 1625258;1489197454;mircea_popescu;(dude made fb event "i've deflorarated myself!") 1625259;1489198002;asciilifeform;phf: it just blows my mind, if random d00d had not tipped me off, i could handily go ANOTHER 8 YEARS of ida 1625260;1489198013;asciilifeform;and of electron microscope. 1625261;1489198047;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if my cock were one of 10 in existence, and the chicks all knew, and still avoided, i would have to seriously wonder wtf, maybe it points in wrong direction, or i have dog's head, or what. 1625262;1489198082;mircea_popescu;yes, yes. i'm just being an asshole. 1625263;1489198086;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is impossible, even on google, to look for smbx-anything without finding asciilifeform's www. 1625264;1489198166;asciilifeform;my pessimistic reading of this picture is that all of the folx who a) knew b) knew that asciilifeform wanted to know c) didn't tell -- were playing some peculiar power game in their heads, re 'access to the treasure trove', and how mean ol' asciilifeform wants to take this magic access and make it worth 0 ... 1625265;1489198188;mircea_popescu;sure. 1625266;1489198213;asciilifeform;and phf earlier was right, it is very difficult to clone the iron EVEN with the src 1625267;1489198218;asciilifeform;but picture how difficult, WITHOUT it 1625268;1489198219;mircea_popescu;alternatively, they a) didn't know (either item) ; b) didn't care ; c) didn't know they don't know ; d) didn't care they don't know and so folllowing. 1625269;1489198239;trinque;getting old and having failed is a thing. 1625270;1489198254;mircea_popescu;a large part of the problem being that in a "democracy" there's ~no incentive to behave in a less shitty manner. 1625271;1489198263;mircea_popescu;hey, they're free people self determination etc rite ? 1625272;1489198269;asciilifeform;aaaha. 1625273;1489198303;mircea_popescu;nobody ever kicks anyone out of a dinner for being vegetarian, why the hell would anyone worry what people think of him for not having done x thing de rigueur. 1625274;1489198315;mircea_popescu;diversity! 1625275;1489198390;asciilifeform;trinque: the interesting bit, and yes i drilled deeply enough through the dried gangrene to get at the pus, is that there were and remain people who enjoy sitting on the embers of dead smbx more than they want to see the tech come back to life 1625276;1489198401;asciilifeform;so long as they get 'feeling of power' from koscheiing on the embers. 1625277;1489198423;asciilifeform;this is the stuff dark ages are made of. 1625278;1489198430;asciilifeform;not the caliph stoking his furnace, no. 1625279;1489198434;mircea_popescu;listen, you will find ~same wherever you drill, old democrats, "russian engineers" active pre 1990, etc. 1625280;1489198441;mircea_popescu;old men are universally smelly in the same way. 1625281;1489198446;mircea_popescu;which is why young women dont' like them. 1625282;1489198449;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: actually i find ~opposite~ with su engineers 1625283;1489198461;mircea_popescu;depends to some degree who/which you talk to. 1625284;1489198463;asciilifeform;for fucks sake, the guy who invented refal, is still active (or his son..?) 1625285;1489198466;asciilifeform;you can download refal! 1625286;1489198471;mircea_popescu;but this is a plain converse issue of "coffin liner" 1625287;1489198521;asciilifeform;fwiw all (afaik) of the people actually responsible for the managerial demise of smbx, are dead 1625288;1489198532;asciilifeform;so none of the now-living folx can have what to be ashamed of, other than their whispering. 1625289;1489198556;mircea_popescu;never as simple as all that. 1625290;1489198712;mircea_popescu;consider the point! http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625177 << to this i could say, "the defensive play, of course, being to always link to the baseline when a field is discussed" to which his retort would be, of course, "yeah and he;ll just say a string with kindergarten in it". 1625291;1489198712;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 01:29 phf: it never occured that he wanted the link. when he said "i want snap4 source" i assumed he's talking about the original alpha source, or a complete working lispm emulator from scratch, a spherical horse of "working, readable lispm emulator", rather then what's actually there 1625292;1489198721;phf;asciilifeform: you've made a lot of unfounded assumptions. somehow everyone acts in bad faith unless they involve asciilifeform in their going ons? 1625293;1489198730;mircea_popescu;if you -ev people doing base work, you -ev your own future. 1625294;1489198783;mircea_popescu;and this is a general tendency, not just here. consdier $random example : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623902 1625295;1489198783;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 19:06 phf: (if nobody else steps up, i'm going to bring one up in a day or two) 1625296;1489198814;mircea_popescu;why phrase it as this rather than plainly "i will" ? to place disincentive on others doing it ? (hey, if i do it he won't) rather than incentive (he's doing it, let me do it too) ? 1625297;1489198822;asciilifeform;phf: didja miss where i noted that i wrote to them ? and signed fat cheques to some of'em ? 1625298;1489198829;mircea_popescu;none of the self-harming behaviours of mankind are examined, or deliberately chosen 1625299;1489198833;mircea_popescu;they "just are". 1625300;1489198880;trinque;and if the nemesis is there in the mind even in people who are quite functional yet, what happens to an old failed man? 1625301;1489198885;phf;mircea_popescu: i noticed that here focusing on something is an incentive for others to also focus on it 1625302;1489198895;mircea_popescu;myeah. but nemesis quite is in the mind. 1625303;1489198897;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat 1625304;1489198922;mircea_popescu;phf entirely idle example, no more important than strand of hay, which is why chosen here, illustrates beautifully. 1625305;1489199174;*;phf nods 1625306;1489203506;Framedragger;oh lord. *creation* of seven-levels-deep directories (in the format of "6d56/a6f4/f1d5/67a3/505c/a7d0/9c72/6fff/e75e/a482/e36b/6b5b/7421/f9cf/e36a/", with last 8th level being symlink) takes a long time, and is also space-wasteful on ext4. to 'store' 1k transactions it takes ~0.41s and takes up 59M of space. this without actual symlinks (should be fast but should check later). *removal* is ~0.45s 1625307;1489203514;Framedragger;(with that, i bid goodnight) 1625308;1489203583;Framedragger;(would advise against deep folder structure assuming no concrete reason to prefer it. just-symlinks (+/-) seems better. but then not sure if to think much of fs anyway.) 1625309;1489203688;Framedragger;(~60k to store 'transaction' (excluding symlink itself)!! this is the price of deeper fs trees) 1625310;1489203923;Framedragger;(btw the 'creation' is not bottlenecked by python or w/e; straight syscalls and simple c, and the random hex generator is a small footprint) 1625311;1489203956;Framedragger;(removal is just `rm -r`) 1625312;1489204421;*;Framedragger will check tomorrow if the insane size was from his shitty c. but actually, probably not - in ext3/ext4, a folder is an inode and an inode points to unique data block - minimum size of which is 4k. given an expansive recursive tree, you get what you get. 1625313;1489205131;asciilifeform;Framedragger: imho the 'use existing fs' thing is a dead end. 1625314;1489206336;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625206 << ceramica inteligente !! 1625315;1489206336;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 01:35 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6850990FBF120FDFEE3B833114382DD945ED65AEAA5BCBCCFFC82C391E34AE5E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1390...8517 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.81.115.100 (ssh-rsa key from 80.81.115.100 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown ES CS VC) 1625316;1489206355;asciilifeform;( didjaknow ! ) 1625317;1489206430;asciilifeform;( http://80.81.115.100 ) 1625318;1489208193;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1625319;1489208201;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1145.0, vol: 34915.37432737 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1146.416, vol: 19122.32782 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1146.3, vol: 110448.15137048 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1117.7112, vol: 15252.86520000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1145.0, vol: 9373.13416481 | Volume-weighted last average: 1143.70144271 1625320;1489211778;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624970 << where once you were a crackpot laboring in public obscurity, now you are a luminary of the republic. defections will continue apace until the old empires yield their last secret. 1625321;1489211778;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 00:16 asciilifeform: if some unknown d00d had not written to me last night, even now i might be doing it 1625322;1489239551;mircea_popescu;wtf is wrong with ext! 1625323;1489239643;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes there is an ancient observation (toqueville) that slavery is not unbearable to peoples in proportion to its intensity, but in proportion to the velocity of its reduction. he supports it by showing that the germans, more abject slaves in 1700 than any central asian people, found their situation tolerable ; whereas the french, significantly freer ~and becoming freer~ found the uninstantaneous speed of the change INTO 1625324;1489239643;mircea_popescu;LERABLE. 1625325;1489239650;mircea_popescu;i suspect alf exhibits the same issue. 1625326;1489239681;shinohai;I awake to the screeches of `PREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET` this morning with coffee. Hail to the Trumpreich. 1625327;1489239701;mircea_popescu;o btw, where was that lulz 1625328;1489239759;shinohai;https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/nyregion/preet-bharara-us-attorney.html 1625329;1489239956;mircea_popescu;https://archive.is/vuBRg (rehash of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619007 ; proudly reported in the beobachter ) 1625330;1489239956;a111;Logged on 2017-02-27 12:10 mircea_popescu: dude, they fucking gutted them. olympus agreed to pay the usg ~70 billion yen in fines, and install obama's children as an "independent outside monitor". whole corp market cap being you know, 1.3trn or some shit. who the fuck pays 5% of the market cap as a fine already, what is this, Совет Экономической Взаимопомощи ? 1625331;1489240038;mircea_popescu;o hey, one less shithead made in india around ? 1625332;1489240100;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in rotherham, http://68.media.tumblr.com/15036d15ef5dcfbf18d1bc22bc4dbfb9/tumblr_nxrc1dzSGS1tz8fr1o1_1280.jpg 1625333;1489240295;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625313 << on the basis ~of actual measurements~ your position is indomitable. wtf, HALF A SECOND for ~8~ deep directory structure ?! 1625334;1489240295;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 04:05 asciilifeform: Framedragger: imho the 'use existing fs' thing is a dead end. 1625335;1489240309;mircea_popescu;contrary to what ANYONE may pretend, ext4 IS NOT A FS!!!! it's a ridiculous toy at best. 1625336;1489240346;mircea_popescu;ie, the reason usgtard is all "oh, random is not really broken" when phuctor came out exactly reduces to "well, it's fucking broken, but you should see the filesystem!" 1625337;1489240509;Framedragger;asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for completeness, i should state that it may be "workable" (in the sense of slightly less horrible) to just keep a flat dir tree structure, one or two levels deep - if you don't ask fs to list files in dir and just want to access filenames you already know, it's ~okay-ish. but i think i agree that the whole fs idea needs to be dumped, in general 1625338;1489240518;mircea_popescu;bullshit. 1625339;1489240528;mircea_popescu;im not using this thing. how is it better than windows ? 1625340;1489240539;Framedragger;hey, you wanted some fs test, i'm just reporting on levels of shittiness found 1625341;1489240546;Framedragger;it's not, it's not 1625342;1489240553;mircea_popescu;yeah i don't have a problem with you. still monumentally pissed off. 1625343;1489240576;mircea_popescu;to revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625097 which is apparently a daily fixture by now : 1625344;1489240576;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 01:11 mircea_popescu: i can't bring myself to move my piss away from dks, or anyone in his generation's face. 1625345;1489240578;Framedragger;yeah i especially liked the amazing speed of directory deletion 1625346;1489240605;mircea_popescu;NONE OF THEM DID ANYTHING USEFUL. AT ALL. BUNCH OF PRETENTIOUS POINTLESS USELESS IMBECILES NOT WORTH PISSING AWAY FROM! 1625347;1489240634;mircea_popescu;"oh i had a job i went to work through traffic every morning" 1625348;1489240646;mircea_popescu;fuck you and that roadside wench of your mother. 1625349;1489241867;mircea_popescu;Framedragger suppose you store the blocks whole. what is the seek time of one dozen 1mb files dispersed randomly in a 8 deep directory structure, defined as (time when all are in ram) - (time when call was made) ? 1625350;1489241881;mircea_popescu;make say 1mn total an' see 1625351;1489242059;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: to be clear, the way this would work is, there'd still be symlinks at the bottom ends of the dir structure, pointing to blocks (which are stored in a single dir, say)? 1625352;1489242101;mircea_popescu;nah. here's the scheme again : 1625353;1489242130;Framedragger;also, as asciilifeform said, cache can really confuse the hell out of any metrics. e.g., disk cache. so i'd need to probably restart whole box to be sure (yes lol, but i think i should) 1625354;1489242146;mircea_popescu;1. actual blocks (1mb files) are stored in a directory structure, based on their hash say. this is 8 deep because hey, max filecount in a dir, we want to make a proper system. 1625355;1489242173;mircea_popescu;2. index to those blocks (say, eg, to find txn, or anything else) is stored in a SEPARATE dir structure, and at the bottom there's simlinks to the block files. 1625356;1489242218;mircea_popescu;so your storage looks like /(blocks, txn, addies, whatever)/abcd/etc/(abcd.dat or abcd.symlink etc) 1625357;1489242224;Framedragger;(you'd need to have a *lot* of blocks to have average num of files per second-to-deepest dir be >= 1; i dont think one needs 8 levels, but i see the point in trying this) 1625358;1489242242;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the point is that we don't want to make any more provedly breaking systems. 1625359;1489242265;mircea_popescu;if the total number of blocks your machine can produce is 2**4096, then your design will also store 2**4096 blocks. 1625360;1489242308;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: sure, but do you expect to reach **10^24** nodes before trb-i?? (http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph2.png) 1625361;1489242329;mircea_popescu;(and if this is untenable, THEN THE DESIGN GETS MODIFIED!!! no fucking "solutions" of shoving shit under carpet and letting mp discover it in 2017 whiole spending however many years eating food we didn't pay for and pretensions to "engineering" and "intellectual lifge" we don't deserve.) 1625362;1489242359;Framedragger;anyway, fair enough, for now 1625363;1489242365;mircea_popescu;Framedragger in any case i don't expect to optimize BEFORE DESIGNING holy shit. talk about early optimizations. this is the measuring stage. you optimize nothing. 1625364;1489242381;Framedragger;suresure. 1625365;1489242396;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625335 << i'm surprised that ext4 is even considered, as opposed to ext2. i believe we even had a thread about it some long time ago 1625366;1489242396;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 13:51 mircea_popescu: contrary to what ANYONE may pretend, ext4 IS NOT A FS!!!! it's a ridiculous toy at best. 1625367;1489242441;mircea_popescu;phf well he's considering what he's considering, seeing how he's doing the measuring. i was kinda biasing towards ext2 in the previous discussions (which i guess nobody reads or something ?) , but hey, can't impede man's independent manhood! 1625368;1489242468;mircea_popescu;gotta start somewhere anyway. 1625369;1489242497;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623751 i suppose i couldve started with ext2 1625370;1489242497;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 17:41 mircea_popescu: Framedragger the most pressing matter to my eyes right now is getting ext2/ext4 benchmarked for our specified purpose. 1625371;1489242509;phf;i believe alf even pointed out the obvious "journaling file systems are going to journal" 1625372;1489242518;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ext2 << for shits and giggles. 1625373;1489242528;mircea_popescu;Framedragger no seriously, nothing wrong with it. now we have numbers. they're good to have. 1625374;1489242545;mircea_popescu;phf i don't follow. so what if they are ? 1625375;1489242617;mircea_popescu;there's an item in the specification of journaling that it must not work which i missed or something ? 1625376;1489242699;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: so in your proposed-to-be-tested scheme, there are two separate eight-deep trees? may i ask, why do blocks need their own tree - after all, it's just an int. do you expect block number to overflow an unsigned 32 bit int? because you *really* don't need 8-deep structure for dispersing 2**32 nodes (again: http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph1.png / http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/fsgraph2.png ) 1625377;1489242709;Framedragger;but if it's for 'defensive' benchmarking, sure. just pointing out. 1625378;1489242719;mircea_popescu;well if you're storing them by thyeir hash... 1625379;1489242726;mircea_popescu;it's a hash. you're thinking store by blockheight ? 1625380;1489242727;Framedragger;ah, ah 1625381;1489242745;Framedragger;yeah but i forgot how to bitcoin. i guess blockheight bad idea? 1625382;1489242764;mircea_popescu;can definitely also store by shifted blockheight, 0000/0000 etc. it will still be a thing as large as the other one 1625383;1489242766;Framedragger;yes that's what i meant. which, i dunno, maybe bad assumption of 'only one chain', or sth. 1625384;1489242780;mircea_popescu;(pretending for a second the design is sane, which it isn't -- who the fuck counts by int a set of hashed items omfg) 1625385;1489242792;mircea_popescu;Framedragger only one chain is not bad assumption. 1625386;1489242835;Framedragger;kk. so, ok. only thing is i'm swamped in march, so will have to wait. (if anyone wants c code i wrote so far, ping me) 1625387;1489242847;mircea_popescu;(for shits and giggles, anyone looked at what happens once blockcount overflows ?) 1625388;1489242869;mircea_popescu;Framedragger dun worry about it. lordship coming up for discussion soon anyway, and ima propose you (an' some other fellows), so. 1625389;1489242906;phf;i think the deep value in an exercise like "replace db with a filesystem" is the reduction of moving parts. ext2 is a straightforward inode based tree, with a separate relocation phase, etc. journaling adds the whole overhead (for it's primarily cognitive) of secondary redundancy that you now have to factor into all your considerations 1625390;1489242925;phf;*for me it's 1625391;1489242927;mircea_popescu;no argument there. 1625392;1489242948;mircea_popescu;what i want to hear is, (preferably proof) as to why journaling filesystem can't store files in directories! 1625393;1489243089;mircea_popescu;Framedragger for the sake of argument : "here's link to my work so far published on my blog" is worth a guinea. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625386 is worth twopence. 1625394;1489243089;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 14:33 Framedragger: kk. so, ok. only thing is i'm swamped in march, so will have to wait. (if anyone wants c code i wrote so far, ping me) 1625395;1489243123;Framedragger;ah yeah, blog. fucking backlog, man 1625396;1489243147;*;Framedragger slowly chopping log 1625397;1489243180;mircea_popescu;you ever go to school ? what usually happens there's a chick there that's really good pre-puberty. then she starts bleeding, and she skips some classes / homeworks / attentionpaying. and then... she can never catch back up again. because interlocking. 1625398;1489243201;mircea_popescu;dun be the girl left behind!!1 1625399;1489243234;Framedragger;problem is multiple homework/class/job-domains, and the context-switching :) but yeah 1625400;1489243254;mircea_popescu;:D 1625401;1489243268;mircea_popescu;(and if the foregoing didn't happen where you went to school... you didn't.) 1625402;1489244522;BingoBoingo;!!up grubles 1625403;1489244523;deedbot;grubles voiced for 30 minutes. 1625404;1489248148;asciilifeform;!#s bitcoinfs 1625405;1489248149;a111;23 results for "bitcoinfs", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoinfs 1625406;1489248168;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-31#904553 << earliest, apparently, thread 1625407;1489248168;a111;Logged on 2014-10-31 00:21 asciilifeform: as in, 'bitcoinfs.' 1625408;1489248269;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625333 << as i also described earlier, there are fundamental problems with all 'general purpose' fs, from bitcoin pov. mainly, they 'pessimize' for 'least common case', which happens to be our ~most~ common case : creation of file 1625409;1489248269;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 13:51 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625313 << on the basis ~of actual measurements~ your position is indomitable. wtf, HALF A SECOND for ~8~ deep directory structure ?! 1625410;1489248301;asciilifeform;the other fundamental problem, and the reason why asciilifeform's interest in recycling old fs for trb is ~0, is that imho trb needs LESS dependency on open sores crud, rather than moar 1625411;1489248308;mircea_popescu;we create 6 files /hour 1625412;1489248319;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: symlink is a file for this purpose 1625413;1489248329;asciilifeform;and you'll be creating 2-3000 per block 1625414;1489248338;mircea_popescu;ah, is it ? 1625415;1489248340;asciilifeform;aha. 1625416;1489248348;mircea_popescu;myeah. that's no good. 1625417;1489248385;asciilifeform;but for the l0gz, lemme finish: replacing bdb, massive turd, with ext (or reiser, or any) equally or greater mass turd, (and now with linux dependence !!) is not a win. 1625418;1489248404;mircea_popescu;this is a misrepresentation : the turd is in there already. 1625419;1489248412;mircea_popescu;currently, on all nodes. 1625420;1489248419;asciilifeform;bdb - is 1625421;1489248422;mircea_popescu;so there's no "replacing". excising part of the tumour. 1625422;1489248426;mircea_popescu;bdb sits on a fs. 1625423;1489248444;mircea_popescu;currently the dependency is bdb + ext? ; if it becomes ext? it is less not same. 1625424;1489248459;asciilifeform;mno. the current dependency is 'bdb + AN fs' 1625425;1489248464;mircea_popescu;mno. 1625426;1489248491;mircea_popescu;it's more like bdb + ALL fs in this list. 1625427;1489248499;asciilifeform;anyway i described an algo that wasn't retarded and doesn't pull in 10,000 lines of open sores ???. and it's as if this neverhappened, for some reason. 1625428;1489248505;mircea_popescu;becomes no bdb ; this fs. huge improvement. 1625429;1489248512;mircea_popescu;link ? 1625430;1489248541;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624240 1625431;1489248541;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 16:57 asciilifeform: btw i will also put down in the log, one very simple possible algorithm for a 'txidx-fs' : 1625432;1489248570;mircea_popescu;it's not "as if it never happened". it ACTUALLY DID NOT HAPPEN. 1625433;1489248576;mircea_popescu;how am i going to profile your dreams ? 1625434;1489248585;asciilifeform;profiling it right now, actually 1625435;1489248591;asciilifeform;since ben_vulpes never came back with a # 1625436;1489248599;mircea_popescu;well so then. it never happened because you never published. dun dun dun. 1625437;1489248621;asciilifeform;meanwhile, opened the binder of horrors, with trb src, and found some lulz, which is actually what i sat down at the terminal to share: 1625438;1489248679;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=makefiles#0709 << these are what shitoshi actually stored with the txid 1625439;1489248697;asciilifeform;notice, they aren't simply block indices. these'd be fixed length, and might even get reasonable performance in ye olde bdb; 1625440;1489248704;mircea_popescu;heh 1625441;1489248706;asciilifeform;BUT the tard HAD TO, for some reason, make these variably-sized! 1625442;1489248715;asciilifeform;he stores TX-WHERE-SPEND lists!!! 1625443;1489248776;asciilifeform;so neither my 'bitcoinfs', nor mircea_popescu's let's-abuse-ext, will work, until this garbage is excised 1625444;1489248806;mircea_popescu;i'm not even proposing we abuse ext, i just wish to know if it could work. so far, unencouraging. 1625445;1489248829;asciilifeform;(there is no actual reason to cache where-spents! aside from how the tard probably thought 'my db is slow. let's make it store redundant liquishit, that'll help') 1625446;1489249250;asciilifeform;now, there is one nuance ( that i'm not convinced shitoshi adequately dealt with, either , see http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0755 for instance ) 1625447;1489249277;asciilifeform;namely, that a particular tx can reside in more than one block, if the leading end frays (forks) 1625448;1489249336;asciilifeform;however it is possible to handle this sanely: 1625449;1489249376;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/952995C2D088259A83873F4F1C5ABEA57B4E9EBB4D2B41D03C4916989F98B4CF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1405...3289 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '199.182.78.50 (ssh-rsa key from 199.182.78.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown US MI) 1625450;1489249376;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/952995C2D088259A83873F4F1C5ABEA57B4E9EBB4D2B41D03C4916989F98B4CF << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1677...4143 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '199.182.78.50 (ssh-rsa key from 199.182.78.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown US MI) 1625451;1489249380;asciilifeform;there are two possible places for a duplicated tx: an orphaned (nonlongestchain) block, and a snake-tongue (if you will), one of two fork prongs of equal length, on the leading end. 1625452;1489249390;mircea_popescu;it's probably the cause for the whole spend thing, as a sort of unexamined insurance. 1625453;1489249414;asciilifeform;the Right Thing, as i see it, is : if a tx is in orphaned block, it does not belong in the index table 1625454;1489249417;mircea_popescu;anyway, the correct solution has to go along the lines of "nope. only one block." 1625455;1489249421;mircea_popescu;yep 1625456;1489249436;asciilifeform;if trb is in a state of snake tongue, ALL of the affected tx do not belong in the index table 1625457;1489249445;mircea_popescu;yep 1625458;1489249459;asciilifeform;(when new block comes in, to lengthen one end or the other of the snake tongue, the antecedent blocks get checked O(N), 'manually') 1625459;1489249527;asciilifeform;eeeevery single fucking time i sit down and assume that shitoshi did the obvious, simple, correct thing, and build a hypothetical on ~that~, i later open the binder and find that -- guess what 1625460;1489249533;asciilifeform;he did something entirely opposite. 1625461;1489249548;asciilifeform;and which created 1,001 new problems that had no business existing. 1625462;1489249601;asciilifeform;'let's make blocks variable length' 'let's make tx variable length' 'let's make tx INDICES variable and UNBOUNDED length' 'because mother dropped me as a baby' 1625463;1489249630;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/choo-choo-motherfuckers-trump-train-begins-rolling-over-opposition/ << Qntra - Choo Choo Motherfuckers: Trump Train Begins Rolling Over Opposition 1625464;1489249814;mircea_popescu;lelz. 1625465;1489249823;mircea_popescu;choo choo indeed. 1625466;1489249872;asciilifeform;sooo mircea_popescu , to revisit upstack , the entire doublespendpreventer mechanism in trb relies on this nonsense , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0855 << is where it marks spent, and http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0847 is the doublespendtrap 1625467;1489249899;mircea_popescu;aha 1625468;1489249906;asciilifeform;and in turn this relies on storing the spend-tx-array (yes) INSIDE the indices db!! http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=makefiles#0713 << 1625469;1489249915;mircea_popescu;the insanity of putting such a thing there, as opposed to you know, THE FUCKING WALLET 1625470;1489249919;asciilifeform;which prevents the use of ANY sane (fixed-length keys to fixed-lenght values) db !! 1625471;1489249931;mircea_popescu;pretty much has to go. 1625472;1489249937;asciilifeform;without gutting and replacing the entire logic of trb. 1625473;1489249949;mircea_popescu;(note that at no point the preservation of satoshi's indexing scheme was contemplated) 1625474;1489249982;mircea_popescu;diana_coman ^ i think you might lulz. 1625475;1489249999;asciilifeform;it isn't clear why to preserve anything else, if this is amputated. it is the very example of 'grandfather's pistol' -- any mistake is a) not necessarily detectable with ANY kind of testing b) potential reactor melt 1625476;1489250001;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625413 << i will also remind that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625312 which (i forgot this last night) means that in my view, there's no friggin' way eight-level-deep tree structure can hold transactions. every symlink is a file, and on top of that, with 8 levels, most about every transaction will create multiple additional folders 1625477;1489250001;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 16:05 asciilifeform: and you'll be creating 2-3000 per block 1625478;1489250001;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 03:53 Framedragger will check tomorrow if the insane size was from his shitty c. but actually, probably not - in ext3/ext4, a folder is an inode and an inode points to unique data block - minimum size of which is 4k. given an expansive recursive tree, you get what you get. 1625479;1489250003;asciilifeform;(permits double spend) 1625480;1489250029;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pfff. 1625481;1489250039;mircea_popescu;proper doublespent check, not this bs. 1625482;1489250052;mircea_popescu;it wouldn't surprise me if a corner case were discovered where THIS permits doublepsend 1625483;1489250059;Framedragger;*59M* for 1000 'transactions', *before* symlinks are even saved. just the folders (7-level-deep folders.) 1625484;1489250060;mircea_popescu;as it is, now. 1625485;1489250061;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you're talking 'substantial rewrite'. 1625486;1489250069;mircea_popescu;i am. 1625487;1489250083;mircea_popescu;but understand it's not the case "this - works, replacement might not" 1625488;1489250086;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: could be interesting to test for double spends 'manually' (using specially written proggy that walks the blox) 1625489;1489250089;mircea_popescu;the case is -- this probably does not work. 1625490;1489250099;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: which means that i don't see how it could work even given mystery-amazing fs performance (...), *space-wise*. 1625491;1489250108;mircea_popescu;i've not seen any. would be more interesting to test for the hole manually by fuzzing on testnet 1625492;1489250117;mircea_popescu;afaik very little of that was done early on. 1625493;1489250168;*;asciilifeform brb 1625494;1489250170;mircea_popescu;Framedragger so basically each index is an extra terrabytwe 1625495;1489250182;Framedragger;yup. 1625496;1489250198;mircea_popescu;well i've seen some multi-tb hdds :D 1625497;1489250203;mircea_popescu;(obviously -- not ssds ahahahah) 1625498;1489250239;Framedragger;well. if we do linear extrapolation, bout 14400 terabytes for transaction index given 250mil transactions.... 1625499;1489250264;mircea_popescu;think, it's a tree. 1/3 to 1/2 is cut by that 1625500;1489250268;Framedragger;59M for 1000tx. *before* symlinks are stored. (granted, they'll be small) 1625501;1489250285;Framedragger;you're right, the growth *won't* be linear. but... 1625502;1489250293;mircea_popescu;anyway. try ext2 too sometime ? 1625503;1489250297;Framedragger;guess so. 1625504;1489250341;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: you sure you want benchmarks? /me thinks it's a lost cause 1625505;1489250359;mircea_popescu;the logs are hungry for numeric values. 1625506;1489250359;Framedragger;but good to have concrete reproducible data to back it up, sure. 1625507;1489250363;Framedragger;:) 1625508;1489250378;diana_coman;ahahaha mircea_popescu; it sounds... familiar already 1625509;1489250406;mircea_popescu;kek 1625510;1489250442;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the mystery of the black box that manages to require 59kb to store 8 x 4byte directories, ie a whooping 99.99% wastage.... 1625511;1489250474;mircea_popescu;i guess it's technically just 99.93% huh. 1625512;1489250580;Framedragger;i'm sure it's justified by the other amazing parts of the fs, and when we look at the other parts we'll see glorious code that works 1625513;1489250651;mircea_popescu;diana_coman ^ i thought you might lulz 1625514;1489250689;mircea_popescu;(denouement : eulora work is pretty much EXACTLY the above two things.) 1625515;1489250822;diana_coman;99.93% lulz basically, quite 1625516;1489250848;mircea_popescu;no i meant the epic "justified by the other amazing parts of the fs, and when we look at the other parts we'll see glorious code that works" 1625517;1489251189;diana_coman;I took that to be very-much-needed-sarcasm ; Framedragger knows best whether it was still innocent hope instead 1625518;1489251311;mircea_popescu;i think it's innocent sarcasm. 1625519;1489251568;Framedragger;yeah the sarcasm is probably not black enough tbh 1625520;1489252065;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, trilema serves the 350kb zuleika story in ~500ms. FILESYSTEM IS ABOUT AS SLOW! 1625521;1489252077;mircea_popescu;no wonder "cloud computing" and all the rest of the ineptorade. 1625522;1489252234;asciilifeform;konsoomer fs is liquishit. esp. when you entirely do NOT fit the profile of 'konsoomer', who sits and creates file and is happy is it takes less time than for the enter key to bounce back up 1625523;1489252247;asciilifeform;and you don't need variably-sized turds, or deletion, or defrag 1625524;1489252249;asciilifeform;or rebalances, etc. 1625525;1489252362;mircea_popescu;so "consumer fs is great if you don't use it". hey, check it out, exactly like the us army, or for that matter cia, apparently. 1625526;1489252386;mircea_popescu;these great papier mache roofs that work fine as roofs until it finally rains, heh. 1625527;1489252402;asciilifeform;the 1 fs i know of that MIGHT come close, is reiser 1625528;1489252406;asciilifeform;but it has own problems 1625529;1489252410;mircea_popescu;no wonder indian diaspora is so fucking happy. gypsy fucking culture through and tyhrough. 1625530;1489252419;asciilifeform;(iirc reiser is what i originally suggested for this experiment) 1625531;1489252425;mircea_popescu;yea 1625532;1489252432;mircea_popescu;anyway bbl 1625533;1489252642;phf;indian philosophy seems to be "if everything's fucked, just eat, fuck and do your daily puja" 1625534;1489252692;asciilifeform;i thought philosophy was supposed to distinguish man from rat 1625535;1489252714;phf;it does, hence the daily puja part 1625536;1489252749;asciilifeform;lol 1625537;1489252812;phf;"you want meaning in your life? lol. here's 50 books of meaningless rituals. that you have to perform daily. the smarter you are the more rituals you get. knock yourself out." 1625538;1489252856;asciilifeform;https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Bergeron_djvu.txt << the 20th c. american take on this. 1625539;1489254333;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in heathendom (not quite noose, but lulzy) https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-January/013473.html 1625540;1489254345;asciilifeform;'Anti-transaction replay in a hardfork'. just for mircea_popescu apparently. 1625541;1489257467;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: yes, i move extremely slowly. 1625542;1489257478;ben_vulpes;did you get your number yet? 1625543;1489257515;asciilifeform;nope, and not likely to any time soon, realized that shitoshi left us blocks where you have to PARSE ALL TX TO SPLIT INTO TX motherfucker 1625544;1489257555;asciilifeform;( i , like complete idiot, wanted to 'let's write a quick c proggy like blkcut' ) 1625545;1489258402;asciilifeform;don't wait for me ben_vulpes 1625546;1489258584;mircea_popescu;phf aha. quite spurious failed civilisation(s), that continent 1625547;1489259016;Framedragger;asciilifeform: i wonder how these folks did it https://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf 1625548;1489259026;Framedragger;maybe not applicable to trb 1625549;1489259046;asciilifeform;Framedragger: if i had to guess -- probably by munging bdb 1625550;1489259089;asciilifeform;or hm, looks like they didn't 1625551;1489259113;asciilifeform;'On May 13th 2012 we downloaded the full public record of this system in one of its two major forms, which consisted of about 180,000 HTML files. After parsing and processing these files, we built a graph...' 1625552;1489259134;asciilifeform;must've used bci or one of whatever other heathentrons existed in those days. 1625553;1489259135;mircea_popescu;eh bash ftw. 1625554;1489259167;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you have a bash script that parses tx ?! 1625555;1489259176;mircea_popescu;no, the 180k html files above 1625556;1489259179;asciilifeform;aah 1625557;1489259183;mircea_popescu;betcha it was curl and pipe 1625558;1489259205;Framedragger;https://github.com/behas/bitcoingraph refers to that paper. it has this tool, https://github.com/behas/bitcoingraph/blob/master/scripts/bcgraph-export , for allegedly dumping transactions for given range of blocks. that tool refers to https://github.com/behas/bitcoingraph/blob/master/bitcoingraph/bitcoingraph.py#L128 which has has a shitty python callstack but boils to 1625559;1489259206;Framedragger;https://github.com/behas/bitcoingraph/blob/master/bitcoingraph/blockchain.py#L45 1625560;1489259206;Framedragger;etc 1625561;1489259243;asciilifeform;Framedragger: ben_vulpes already wrote a block & tx parser, his is the closest we have right now to a usable one 1625562;1489259265;Framedragger;ah ah right, not bad then 1625563;1489259271;asciilifeform;forget about python, nobody wants to wait for two weeks for the result. 1625564;1489259449;Framedragger;apparently offloads export/computation to neo4j, a hipsta graph db 1625565;1489259457;*;Framedragger strategically retreats 1625566;1489259641;mircea_popescu;lol does it even work still ? 1625567;1489259654;mircea_popescu;problem with these hipster solutions is they're only good for about half a year. 1625568;1489259671;mircea_popescu;"oh, nobody uses X anymore". dude... if i wanted to accessorize i'd just read cosmo. 1625569;1489259726;trinque;that's why they love docker; automated jars of shit 1625570;1489259763;mircea_popescu;but 6 months later no longer worky. 1625571;1489259764;Framedragger;good for cryopreservation yes 1625572;1489259771;mircea_popescu;"oh it musrt be a configuration problem" 1625573;1489260173;Framedragger;ah trinque up'd himself just to remind me that docker is shit lol 1625574;1489260177;Framedragger;fair point sir 1625575;1489260181;mircea_popescu;lel 1625576;1489260309;trinque;!~step1 on the road to recovery! 1625577;1489260309;jhvh1;1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. 1625578;1489260430;BingoBoingo;!~step4 1625579;1489260430;jhvh1;4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 1625580;1489260489;Framedragger;currently stealing booze from that inventory. some good old shit in there i tell you 1625581;1489260579;*;ben_vulpes happy to chime in on docker shit parade 1625582;1489260710;Framedragger;i have some good memories from using bsd jails some years ago. the core concept of isolation (fs, process, network, etc) is not bad. providing integrated interface not a bad thing, either. problem with docker is it doesn't do it in a consistent way, is too bloated, is ~proprietary +/-, and does the abstraction in a way that invites lazy people to be even more lazy and reckless. 1625583;1489260712;ben_vulpes;"the hft guy" wrote what i consider the canonical beating, mirrors my experience quite exactly 1625584;1489260736;ben_vulpes;dude *the* problem? 1625585;1489260745;Framedragger;ah i may have read it, did it mention DBs, too, as in "why the fuck would you put db in there" 1625586;1489260750;Framedragger;okok 1625587;1489260772;ben_vulpes;let us not mention the ever-shifting api, the utter failure of to do MOTHERFUCKING GARBAGE COLLECTION, the miserable and useless state in which it leaves disks 1625588;1489260775;Framedragger;shitloads of shit. 1625589;1489260793;asciilifeform;Framedragger: you will notice that tools which 'invites lazy people to be even more lazy and reckless' proliferate, whereas ones that penalize shaved chimps for being the worthless biowaste that they are, tend to disappear and then have to be excavated from 1km of dirt, or evaporate entirely 1625590;1489260800;mircea_popescu;in other lolz internets! http://boards.4chan.org/lit/thread/9222977/thread-for-the-appreciation-of-mps-epic-new-novel 1625591;1489260802;Framedragger;(i'll just mention that for persistent data, you are supposed to use bind mounts, not internal docker storage.) 1625592;1489260806;ben_vulpes;the endless pile of "i would like to perform what i consider a basic operation of type X" "here have a shell script of awk and sed" 1625593;1489260806;asciilifeform;naggum was afaik the first to formally write down this observation, in his perl essays 1625594;1489260851;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: "if you care about your data integrity, our tool is not for you" 1625595;1489260879;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the fundamental problem with "human rights" / "our democracy" ie humanism -- if mothers empower sons to escape fatherly punishment, the incentive on the 2nd sons is to be mothers rather than fathers. 1625596;1489261070;asciilifeform;basic neh 1625597;1489261103;mircea_popescu;yeah, basic element of the pile of "lalalacanthear" aka "left" 1625598;1489261200;mircea_popescu;in unrelated lulz, turkish-dutch relations at historic low over dutch deciding they have the power to forbid turkish foreign minister visit the turkish consulate in holland. because hey, if it works on random pick-up artist dork, why not on turkish foreign minister. 1625599;1489261207;mircea_popescu;after all they're both male, right ? 1625600;1489261288;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the two are economically about the same size, but the dutch army would count as a half regiment of the turkish. 1625601;1489261303;asciilifeform;happy nato friendz 1625602;1489261323;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1625603;1489261360;asciilifeform;hey if there can be a 'latvian army' why not a dutch one. 1625604;1489261365;asciilifeform;let'splaypretend. 1625605;1489261365;mircea_popescu;is holland even in nato ? 1625606;1489261383;mircea_popescu;a yeah there they are, 50k contingent. lol. 1625607;1489261389;asciilifeform;since day0 neh 1625608;1489261393;mircea_popescu;halfromania. 1625609;1489261394;asciilifeform;'49 1625610;1489261430;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i never can remember which of the ex-relevant colonial powers are not in which instruments. eu except britain, nato aparently w/o sweden, but with norway, there's something else without norway and so on 1625611;1489261433;mircea_popescu;buncha speshuls. 1625612;1489261450;asciilifeform;brits still technically in eu 1625613;1489261455;asciilifeform;for whoknowshowlong 1625614;1489261463;mircea_popescu;yet another layer of indirection. 1625615;1489261476;mircea_popescu;you know it's going to shit when the cheese starts widening in this manner. 1625616;1489261606;*;Framedragger just had some cold borscht. << amazing and recommend for those who haven't tried 1625617;1489261649;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625589 << yeah that's true, and i suppose one could do better than encouraging this trend 1625618;1489261649;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 19:33 asciilifeform: Framedragger: you will notice that tools which 'invites lazy people to be even more lazy and reckless' proliferate, whereas ones that penalize shaved chimps for being the worthless biowaste that they are, tend to disappear and then have to be excavated from 1km of dirt, or evaporate entirely 1625619;1489261659;asciilifeform;in other noose, hey, hey, lbj, my CsI:Tl scintillator diode is here 1625620;1489261693;mircea_popescu;enjoy 1625621;1489261694;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625594 << docker containers are *supposed* to be ephemeral. 'volatile containers' in itself is not a worthless concept. don't take it as me advocating for them, just, ftr. 1625622;1489261694;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 19:34 ben_vulpes: Framedragger: "if you care about your data integrity, our tool is not for you" 1625623;1489261795;ben_vulpes;you say this as though you think i'm unaware 1625624;1489261810;ben_vulpes;i have wrestled this pig 1625625;1489261817;ben_vulpes;i--dirty. it--enjoyed. 1625626;1489261975;ben_vulpes;but that's not all! say one wants to get into a running container where something went wrong to inspect it's state 1625627;1489262006;ben_vulpes;"oh, no, why would you ever want to do that? aren't you a professional opsbro? with centralized logging? containers are ephemeral, you low-dough derp! they crash and go away!" 1625628;1489262025;ben_vulpes;no bitch, you will give me that process that is hosed. i want to diddle it further. 1625629;1489262052;ben_vulpes;silicon-valley developer finger trap. can't go away soon enough. 1625630;1489262070;ben_vulpes;worse than mongo in that it contaminates /everything/. 1625631;1489262095;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: fair enough. 1625632;1489262145;ben_vulpes;"great for development environments" no, no it is not. 1625633;1489262148;ben_vulpes;it's not great for anything. 1625634;1489262168;mircea_popescu;it's great for otherwise idle dorks to dick about with. 1625635;1489262172;mircea_popescu;spinsterism. it's a thing. 1625636;1489262252;Framedragger;i expect folks regard the "crash and go away" as a feature - just restart it bro, etc. 1625637;1489262260;Framedragger;any suggestions for isolation from folks here? just cgroups/chroot? 1625638;1489262294;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625537 entirely. ther'es hordes of chicks who are taught to dick about with "google analytics". there's hordes of dicklets who docker. there's a whole population of people who in 1817 would have been making textiles by hand. 1625639;1489262294;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 17:20 phf: "you want meaning in your life? lol. here's 50 books of meaningless rituals. that you have to perform daily. the smarter you are the more rituals you get. knock yourself out." 1625640;1489262297;mircea_popescu;gyess what ? they still are. 1625641;1489262312;mircea_popescu;Framedragger honestly i know of no better than "get a box" 1625642;1489262328;ben_vulpes;> isolation 1625643;1489262334;ben_vulpes;grow a budget, get some servers, problem? 1625644;1489262365;mircea_popescu;the whole point of the "we'll solve problems with plows dragged by 1024 chickens" is that you then DO NOT tyurn aroundand pretend each chicken is an individual bipedal miniox. 1625645;1489262402;trinque;Framedragger: the fuck is "isolation" ? 1625646;1489262434;ben_vulpes;trinque: shibboleth of ruby where nothing gets installed cleanly 1625647;1489262459;ben_vulpes;this is seen as an inevitability and not a cancer somehow 1625648;1489262460;Framedragger;*sigh* i'll grant it that concepts are leaky and can't apply hammer to all problems etc etc; but you can't pretend that the core concept of isolation is not useful. just isolating fs, process, and network is already useful. 1625649;1489262477;trinque;you may not use the term "isolation" without defining it 1625650;1489262481;trinque;in your terms, go ahead. 1625651;1489262482;ben_vulpes;and then i waste a year and untold piles of shitbucks on docker 1625652;1489262563;mircea_popescu;i am saying the core concept of isolation is not useful. what now. 1625653;1489262576;trinque;yeah but he was supposed to say it! 1625654;1489262582;mircea_popescu;oh i see. 1625655;1489262584;Framedragger;a process by which one restricts the system-provided resources that a particular entity (just "process", for now, say) is exposed to; the effect of which is that the entity functions as if in a stand-alone system dedicated to its purpose 1625656;1489262584;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625637 << isolation is , at MINIMUM, is when you have a rack of... isolated machines 1625657;1489262584;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 19:57 Framedragger: any suggestions for isolation from folks here? just cgroups/chroot? 1625658;1489262594;mircea_popescu;nonsense. 1625659;1489262611;mircea_popescu;your fucking x windows read the input of all other windows dude. wtf. 1625660;1489262623;mircea_popescu;tell me now you run without a window manager. 1625661;1489262625;asciilifeform;i did say separate machines neh 1625662;1489262626;trinque;Framedragger: and what of the myriad privilege escalations that have happened right through the cocker daemon 1625663;1489262632;trinque;"oh but in theory" 1625664;1489262638;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform we all did but he's not hearing it! 1625665;1489262653;mircea_popescu;trinque "socialism is not a bad concept just wasn't correctly implemented." 1625666;1489262657;trinque;"no this thing somebody else built defines me and I have the tshirt" 1625667;1489262659;trinque;aha 1625668;1489262669;mircea_popescu;"i did not say this before any implementation failed though -- it was fine while it wasn't obviously failing" 1625669;1489262688;Framedragger;"used docker" therefor "defined by tshirt" q.e.d. 1625670;1489262707;mircea_popescu;Framedragger more like "used docker, liked it, wants to dockerize other things" therefore defined by tshirt. 1625671;1489262721;Framedragger;that said, docker's 'main aim' isn't even isolation for the sake of security, so my weak point is even weaker. 1625672;1489262746;trinque;and it's "main aim" -> NOBODY CANCELED BASH 1625673;1489262751;Framedragger;but rather more to do with deployment, reproducability, ops, etc 1625674;1489262753;mircea_popescu;listen, your position is horrible because you said "cant say x" and then x was immediately said and ... what now ? 1625675;1489262798;Framedragger;hrmpf 1625676;1489262805;trinque;twenty year old kid says in 201x "oh I will solve the problem of system state management on unix" 1625677;1489262810;trinque;oh really 1625678;1489262818;mircea_popescu;well ? you said that without ANYTHING to back it up ? that MAKES YOU exactly defined by tshirt 1625679;1489262827;mircea_popescu;"can't say our democracy is a waste of everyone's time". ooops... 1625680;1489262894;Framedragger;i only see folks denying the concept of isolation, i maintain that it's not altogether a useless concept. disagreement in premises 1625681;1489262905;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in "modern computing today", http://68.media.tumblr.com/ba3119f7a99000a0d0d0660f0de315a3/tumblr_nr4qqlinuP1uvik0co1_400.gif and then http://68.media.tumblr.com/c7046a6346bca40065837e467e72cdc4/tumblr_nr4qqlinuP1uvik0co2_400.gif 1625682;1489262916;mircea_popescu;Framedragger actually your statement was "if you affirm X i will immediately prove you wrong". 1625683;1489262920;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: rerun ! 1625684;1489262924;mircea_popescu;oh ? 1625685;1489262925;Framedragger;(re. x windows, obviously one can have different ways and capabilities per particular system/process, etc) 1625686;1489262926;asciilifeform;i saw that pisser befoar!! 1625687;1489262949;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the xwindow thing was a simple example of the lowest fucking level of this. what isolation. it never yet happened. 1625688;1489262966;trinque;Framedragger: no, I said it's not a fucking thing on the same machine! 1625689;1489262970;Framedragger;trinque: re. unix, myeah, naivete, i agree 1625690;1489262977;trinque;I told you to define it and you sulked 1625691;1489262988;mircea_popescu;let's try that definition. 1625692;1489262992;Framedragger;well i did, but you disagreed with the definition 1625693;1489263003;Framedragger;don't say i 'sulked' tho. 1625694;1489263017;mircea_popescu;isolation is the metaphysical concept of running software independently on a machine which shares bus access among undefined peripherals and has no way to isolate cpu instruction runs. 1625695;1489263037;Framedragger;that said, fuck *again* i expose myself to arguing for a point i do not heartily believe in. need to reassess my shitty approach. 1625696;1489263050;mircea_popescu;lol k 1625697;1489263098;mircea_popescu;until you have net interface that somehow (how the fuck ?!) doesn't get to read/write to memory, your isolation is soup served in a calender. 1625698;1489263105;mircea_popescu;it may feed you, but it will sure as fuck wet your pants. 1625699;1489263124;mircea_popescu;~may~ feed ~must~ wet pants. 1625700;1489263126;asciilifeform;Framedragger: 'isolation' in the sense you picture it, would be a useful thing if it actually worked. items like, e.g., vmware, come close, but still no cigar (you can leak bits via cache skulduggery, as discussed every six months or so in the log for past 3+ yrs, and various other ways) 1625701;1489263151;ben_vulpes;omfg colander 1625702;1489263169;trinque;yeah but calendar is hilarious too 1625703;1489263184;mircea_popescu;ah calender is the paper forming thing yeah. 1625704;1489263185;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i think he had that one burned in rom 1625705;1489263186;ben_vulpes;sure but it's been going on like this for what three years how 1625706;1489263187;asciilifeform;lol 1625707;1489263191;mircea_popescu;colander. 1625708;1489263214;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha, apparently i got fixated on it 1625709;1489263242;Framedragger;trinque: asciilifeform: i concede your point lol. (last good one re cache was just a few days ago, too http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-06#1622509 ) 1625710;1489263242;a111;Logged on 2017-03-06 16:26 shinohai: https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.08719 " we extract 96% of an RSA private key from a single trace." 1625711;1489263268;ben_vulpes;has the republic dispelled with the illusion of the multi-user unix machine yet? 1625712;1489263290;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: no moar so than the 'illusion' of the multi-directory hdd 1625713;1489263294;mircea_popescu;historical unix multiuser machine was purely political construct. like i could let ben_vulpes live in my vacation home, and it's "multi user" now. 1625714;1489263294;trinque;really it's a reaction to poverty, "lala no I really can't hear my neighbor taking a shit" 1625715;1489263304;asciilifeform;^ 1625716;1489263362;ben_vulpes;kinda surprised to not see a gf lending metaphor from mircea_popescu 1625717;1489263376;asciilifeform;trinque: reminds me of the multiple legends that abound re the old sov habit of hanging carpets on walls. 'we're eastern orcs, we've been doing this since the mongols' -- nope. false. 'it's because of cold cement in hruschev-era flats' -- possible. 'it was so as not to hear the neighbours fuck' -- most likely. 1625718;1489263378;ben_vulpes;"yes i let you use her but she's still mine no matter what show you two got up to in the bedroom" 1625719;1489263412;trinque;hah there's something there too 1625720;1489263420;asciilifeform;i keep waiting for someone to introduce this fine tradition in usa 1625721;1489263421;trinque;"nothing can have permanent consequence, mother loves me" 1625722;1489263423;asciilifeform;wall carpeting. 1625723;1489263455;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes that's actually how it works neh ? 1625724;1489263513;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform complicated, consider most of angloworld used wallpaper + wainscotting up until the us took over the civilisation. 1625725;1489263529;mircea_popescu;wallcarpet may well be just advanced wallpaper. 1625726;1489263531;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i thought? 1625727;1489263538;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: we had wallpaper AND carpets 1625728;1489263541;asciilifeform;was sop 1625729;1489263550;mircea_popescu;that's a little rich. 1625730;1489263590;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes otherwise it'd be a little lulzy, what, dude stuffs girl in van, rapes her, it's now his through the magic of fuckjuice ? 1625731;1489263611;mircea_popescu;(though i suspect some segments of interwebs actually think it works thus) 1625732;1489263629;ben_vulpes;i don't see any disagreement here 1625733;1489263638;mircea_popescu;then let's create one!!1 1625734;1489263642;ben_vulpes;my popesculator appears to function just fine 1625735;1489263974;Framedragger;(turns out i *didn't* read that hft article (https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/01/docker-in-production-an-history-of-failure/) fuuuuck) 1625736;1489263994;Framedragger;(spoiler, wow it's a pos) 1625737;1489264000;Framedragger;(object of study, not article) 1625738;1489264102;ben_vulpes;hah oh you hadn't? 1625739;1489264137;ben_vulpes;yeah the thing approximately works as an uptime monitor for impoverished ustards running 20 side projects on a single aws t1.micro 1625740;1489264158;ben_vulpes;which BY THE WAY 1625741;1489264173;ben_vulpes;bezosnet is a far more capable docker than docker ever will be. 1625742;1489264183;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: none of these liquishits 'work' per sane people definitions of working 1625743;1489264218;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: well computers don't work per sane definitions of working 1625744;1489264227;ben_vulpes;what upon them possibly could 1625745;1489264272;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: dunno about you, i don't buy or keep around boxes that randomly lose bits. 1625746;1489264298;asciilifeform;this is the elementary, 0th thing required of a comp. 1625747;1489264319;ben_vulpes;eh you have a ups in play as well 1625748;1489264328;asciilifeform;if i find that a piece of iron behaves nondeterministically in whatever way (purpose-built rngs aside) -- i throw it out. 1625749;1489264344;ben_vulpes;yank cord, demonstrate deterministic failure plx 1625750;1489264367;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you don't have a mains failure alarm ?! 1625751;1489264369;mircea_popescu;an ups is not that expensive wut 1625752;1489264388;ben_vulpes;nor is it a computer! 1625753;1489264409;ben_vulpes;> in whatever way 1625754;1489264416;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: belt and suspenders, my comp worx 100% deterministically if i were to pull out the ups. disk controller battery. 1625755;1489264435;asciilifeform;(it gets test-drained weekly, also.) 1625756;1489264455;ben_vulpes;fine, fine 1625757;1489264475;asciilifeform;and iirc ben_vulpes works mainly on laptops. what ups does he need. 1625758;1489264487;asciilifeform;his thing has 6-10hr 'ups'. 1625759;1489264575;ben_vulpes;oh don't even get me started on the ways in which the laptops don't behave deterministically 1625760;1489264595;ben_vulpes;i have seen the most amazing kaleidescopic fireworks shows upon opening the machine 1625761;1489264612;ben_vulpes;you know, SOMETIMES 1625762;1489264619;trinque;ben_vulpes: recall my lenovo's RF interference lulz? 1625763;1489264642;ben_vulpes;trinque: oya 1625764;1489264705;asciilifeform;trinque: was this in the logs ? 1625765;1489264798;trinque;proximity to cell phone causes some video card problem that turns off the display, have to switch VTs to get it back 1625766;1489264819;Framedragger;hahahaha 1625767;1489264834;*;ben_vulpes was too kind to call trinque during business hours, lols not worth angrytrinque 1625768;1489264846;trinque;lol 1625769;1489264857;ben_vulpes;heh 1625770;1489264859;asciilifeform;trinque: if you can reproduce this on demand, you can make 'nsa airgap receiver', give lulztalk at some shitcon. 1625771;1489264875;ben_vulpes;was guaranteed way to get boy out of house though "hey i'm here" *slamming around* 1625772;1489264876;trinque;can reproduce it every time 1625773;1489264891;*;ben_vulpes kids 1625774;1489264900;asciilifeform;trinque: how close does the pnoje have to sit to the lappy ? 1625775;1489264923;asciilifeform;(presumably it is the called one, ack'ing the call, that sets it off) 1625776;1489265143;mircea_popescu;prolly worth a vlog 1625777;1489265190;trinque;within a few inches of the left side of the bottom case 1625778;1489265224;mircea_popescu;meanwhile at isolation research labs, http://68.media.tumblr.com/876aa6dfa81e11e3a842c7fbbf5e4d58/tumblr_o76qlgH3Tt1u5jfqoo5_1280.jpg 1625779;1489265260;asciilifeform;those hoses, they want to connect. 1625780;1489265570;Framedragger;!#s https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/14/what-is-docker-and-when-to-use-it/ << on packaging and deployment practices, decent, probably seen by some folks here 1625781;1489265571;a111;0 results for "https://thehftguy.com/2016/11/14/what-is-docker-and-when-to-use-it/ << on packaging and deployment practices, decent, probably seen by some folks here", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=https%3A%2F%2Fthehftguy.com%2F2016%2F11%2F14%2Fwhat-is-docker-and-when-to-use-it%2F%20%3C%3C%20on%20packaging%20and%20deployment%20practices%2C%20decent%2C%20probably%20seen%20by%20some%20folks%20here 1625782;1489265617;trinque;you're not speaking to people who have not done this ~for long periods of their adult life~ 1625783;1489265626;trinque;why teh fuck are you still trying to redeem it 1625784;1489265771;trinque;understand the only thing it exists is so some faggot at a web startup can make his makework job even more complicated so he can hide the fact (mostly from himself) ~that he produces nothing, and is nothing~ 1625785;1489265951;Framedragger;trinque: not trying to redeem it any longer, at all, simmer down (but you were right.) 1625786;1489266097;Framedragger;(anyway, i never would have recommended to use it in critical production. but looks like it's shit for personal local machine projects, too) 1625787;1489266242;ben_vulpes;critical production as distinct from toy production? 1625788;1489266378;ben_vulpes;in other #stancelife/americana: http://68.media.tumblr.com/73d8d4a3bdd9733278acd4f0e9eeb5a0/tumblr_omnyfwNvCH1s2a69oo1_500.jpg 1625789;1489266589;jurov;glad I've never used docker. apparently they succeeded to reimplement oracle-corp-bezzle without backward compat, wd! 1625790;1489266665;ben_vulpes;jurov: you have no idea what you're missing 1625791;1489266669;ben_vulpes;TEH ISOLATION 1625792;1489266748;jurov;yes hear, they insulated the app from pebkac well 1625793;1489266822;ben_vulpes;that's what they sell on, but it turns out that the insulation is measured in briefcases of hundies 1625794;1489266907;Framedragger;@all thanks to this chat i'll now make some urgent recommendations to startup i'm involved with. maybe it's not even gonna be fucked in the ass if moves decisively away. a bit ashamed i had $opinion on $thing-not-researched in the first place. 1625795;1489266917;Framedragger;lol. 1625796;1489266949;trinque;oh hey teh forum works 1625797;1489266952;ben_vulpes;heh now i'm imagining a research report which is just a link to log line 1625798;1489266959;ben_vulpes;"URGENT: SR MGMT MUST READ LOGS" 1625799;1489266986;ben_vulpes;"can you give us a tldr, kiddo?" "NO TLDRS ARE FOR FAGGOTS SIX MONTHS STARTS YESTERDAY" 1625800;1489266990;Framedragger;"if you like report, pay bitcoin to this foundation address here -> " hey maybe one day it'll even happen 1625801;1489267012;Framedragger;the buttsex jokes are for reading teabreaks 1625802;1489267051;jurov;Framedragger: experimenting really helps. i tried saltstack lightly, and the communication between master and minions was incredibly unreliable 1625803;1489267063;jurov;made my opinion about devops 1625804;1489267139;Framedragger;:). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922 1625805;1489267139;a111;Logged on 2016-05-15 15:56 mod6: what i also want to build is a CI thingy for trb 1625806;1489267139;trinque;I dunno who canceled bash and ssh 1625807;1489267152;ben_vulpes;bashops uber alles 1625808;1489267159;trinque;aha 1625809;1489267174;Framedragger;if shitloads of machines, maybe ansible? 1625810;1489267179;trinque;no! damn it 1625811;1489267180;trinque;lol 1625812;1489267190;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: dude start by writing some tests mebbe 1625813;1489267199;trinque;b-but muh hackernews 1625814;1489267214;Framedragger;(even hft guy doesn't have anything bad to say about ansible) 1625815;1489267221;Framedragger;i agree, start from tests, of course. 1625816;1489267223;trinque;oh good then. 1625817;1489267245;Framedragger;snarky trinque uses ssh and bash for 100 machine setups, too 1625818;1489267257;trinque;the fuck I don't 1625819;1489267260;Framedragger;i guess retort it "call me when you have 100 machines to adminster, kid" 1625820;1489267264;ben_vulpes;^ 1625821;1489267264;trinque;that's exactly what I do for 350 1625822;1489267283;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: 'tisn't as though hftbro is exhaustive banger-on of every dumb thing, just the ones he's faced with 1625823;1489267299;Framedragger;what can i say, too much HN for me 1625824;1489267308;ben_vulpes;rots the mind 1625825;1489267324;jurov;don't forget the part about proper management of secrets on the master and general resilience of master against attacks from clients/minions 1625826;1489267339;ben_vulpes;time would be better spent curating a tumblr full of naked girls and american muscle 1625827;1489267374;jurov;it is always incredible hairball of code, impossible to audit anyhow 1625828;1489267486;ben_vulpes;time-cost of audit impossible to estimate at least, and if so and security is a concern, why bother. 1625829;1489267539;ben_vulpes;"hey boss, this looks like something written to suck devs into paying a consulting company to fix bugs in their own software, shall we introduce it as a dependency in our stack?" 1625830;1489267555;ben_vulpes;"the /fuck/ are you smoking?" 1625831;1489267576;jurov;"let's buy oracle, they are solid" 1625832;1489267592;ben_vulpes;once the category of sv finger-trap is introduced, every option must demonstrate that it is /not that/. 1625833;1489267655;ben_vulpes;jurov: i suppose that i'm pretty lucky to have never worked under anyone who thought oracle worth including in the matrix 1625834;1489267943;phf;in my experience places that have oracle tend to pay best rates, and paraphrasing http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-28#1592046 when choosing a zaibatsu to pledge allegiance, choose the one that pays the most 1625835;1489267943;a111;Logged on 2016-12-28 18:31 asciilifeform: 'when choosing astrologer, hire the cheapest' 1625836;1489267988;phf;when you're an astrologer, choose the client that pays the most? hmm, pissed opportunity there 1625837;1489268058;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-24#1606292 1625838;1489268058;a111;Logged on 2017-01-24 00:58 trinque: gonna DNS at all, might as well do it at the most-fed ministry 1625839;1489268092;trinque;gonna SQL ... 1625840;1489268131;trinque;as I understand it PostgreSQL is more or less "closest thing to oracle without having sold first-born per core" 1625841;1489268203;phf;that's another reason, why i don't for example, "hack my python with vim like a real hacker". give me the filthiest, most feature rich IDE, where i can just push spacebar to get half of my scaffolding, or whatever kids these days 1625842;1489268407;ben_vulpes;last few times i cracked a pyject, elpy and python-mode and friends proved...resistant to providing utility 1625843;1489268478;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes hey, at least she has the gap! 1625844;1489268624;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170311/#883 << i do. 1625845;1489268625;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-11: [21:20:45] snarky trinque uses ssh and bash for 100 machine setups, too 1625846;1489268669;mircea_popescu;in other news : if your horse is undisciplined it's not the harness that needs improving. it's the horse. 1625847;1489268831;mircea_popescu;phf not a bad heuristic, except for the part where 30odd yo is kinda too old to work for a salary just like 20something yo is kinda too old to "work in pr" / http://trilema.com/2010/bani-pentru-piariste/ 1625848;1489269006;Framedragger;#trilema is mircea_popescu's constant disappointment, then 1625849;1489269306;mircea_popescu;whyssat ? 1625850;1489269526;Framedragger;just a feeling. 1625851;1489269775;mircea_popescu;meanwhile over at right attitude ranch, http://68.media.tumblr.com/fa9a2501411802f10f1ddcaf88a17b7f/tumblr_o218aqlfjI1sk3xdpo1_500.gif 1625852;1489269844;phf;seen it 1625853;1489269881;phf;you've been reading logs too long, if 1625854;1489270844;asciilifeform;phf: lol 404 ? 1625855;1489270845;asciilifeform;log 1625856;1489270868;phf;yeah, i know, i broke a deploy 1625857;1489270902;phf;few minutes 1625858;1489270991;asciilifeform;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170311/#870 << what is 'CI' ? 1625859;1489270992;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-11: [21:18:59] :). one decent part of devops is CI, i thought. it's even mentioned as possibility for trb dev http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-15#1466922 1625860;1489271003;Framedragger;phf: not enough docker 1625861;1489271043;Framedragger;asciilifeform: where thing builds software and runs it tests every time a change is made. i assume you know his and are therefore asking rhetorically tho 1625862;1489271046;asciilifeform;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170311/#873 << lemme guess, a 'bashop' is a bishop who is handy with bash ? 1625863;1489271047;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-11: [21:19:12] bashops uber alles 1625864;1489271058;asciilifeform;Framedragger: in point of fact i did not 1625865;1489271061;asciilifeform;believe it. 1625866;1489271073;Framedragger;guess that's a *good* sign 1625867;1489271077;jurov;asciilifeform: "continuous integrastion" - running tests on every commit 1625868;1489271079;Framedragger;(continuous integration is the keyword) 1625869;1489271093;Framedragger;its tests* 1625870;1489271105;asciilifeform;seems like a shit idea tho. 'oops there isn't a trb running on dulap, because ooops i broke the build' 1625871;1489271125;Framedragger;build environment != production environment 1625872;1489271186;phf;btcbase is back, with some new experimental features.. 1625873;1489271233;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform bash ops. 1625874;1489271243;asciilifeform;phf: oh hey mouseovers 1625875;1489271244;asciilifeform;neato 1625876;1489271279;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ci as such is not even a bad idea. compile and run pile of tests frequently, an expansion of "save whenever you stop typing" 1625877;1489271279;Framedragger;i thought mouseovers were already there? if you mean timestamps over nicks 1625878;1489271304;Framedragger;(obviously you need to have written those tests first...) 1625879;1489271312;mircea_popescu;obviously. 1625880;1489271322;Framedragger;not obvious to some devops bros. 1625881;1489271339;asciilifeform;Framedragger, mircea_popescu : i can picture it 1625882;1489271351;asciilifeform;would seem to rely on traditional (push/pull) versionatrons tho 1625883;1489271363;mircea_popescu;you can in principle even have emacs-style "pile of all purpose tests" with refinements etc 1625884;1489271416;mircea_popescu;but from a management perspective, it makes you write < 1k lines code 3x as slow and > 10k lines code 3x as fast. 1625885;1489271819;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/script.cpp?v=makefiles#0083 << holy fuq the magicnumberola never ever ends 1625886;1489271907;phf;ok, so experimental features on btcbase is that in memory presser now works. each patch has a "tree" link, that shows you a list of files (ones that are explicitly touched by the patch are marked as "modified"), and can look at each individual file 1625887;1489271921;phf;e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/ 1625888;1489271939;asciilifeform;oh hey!! 1625889;1489271945;phf;http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/db.cpp 1625890;1489271974;mircea_popescu;nice 1625891;1489271991;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform rat droppings are never found in singlets or how'd that go. 1625892;1489272002;mircea_popescu;people who magicnumber magicnumber, it's just how they go. 1625893;1489272035;phf;http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/script.cpp#L83 ^ eq of above 1625894;1489272047;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the hilarious bit is that prb munged up the script system beyond recognition, BUT they kept this turd! merely moved it, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/script/interpreter.cpp?v=0.10.0rc4#0256 1625895;1489272060;mircea_popescu;it's good! 1625896;1489272107;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, didja ever calculate what would happen to trb (or for that matter prb) if one were to produce a colliding txid ? 1625897;1489272130;mircea_popescu;did anyone ever calculate anything wrt bitcoin ? 1625898;1489272137;asciilifeform;nobody but mircea_popescu , hence the q 1625899;1489272144;phf;there's also a search function that lets you search through patchset, and it shows ~first appearance~ of particular string with corresponding file/vpatch 1625900;1489272152;mircea_popescu;in principle it should not be possible to collide a tx. 1625901;1489272159;phf;(searching through a particular press doesn't work yet) 1625902;1489272164;phf;http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable&search=abc&action=searchhttp://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable&search=abc&action=search 1625903;1489272166;phf;err 1625904;1489272168;phf;http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable&search=abc&action=search 1625905;1489272184;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: all you need is an x, y, x!=y, where sha256(sha256(x))==sha256(sha256(y)), and x is a valid tx 1625906;1489272196;mircea_popescu;well yes. 1625907;1489272214;asciilifeform;given that a tx is >256bits long, these pair necessarily exist. 1625908;1489272243;phf;and finally grapher now properly shows broken vpatches (i.e. ones that don't have all of the antecedents), for example http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=experimental all polarbeard ones, and my phf-shiva-swank are broken 1625909;1489272252;mircea_popescu;not so easy to find though. 1625910;1489272268;asciilifeform;phf: how did those end up existing ? 1625911;1489272299;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i did not say that it is easy to find. but would like to know the consequences of one being found. 1625912;1489272301;phf;regrinds 1625913;1489272305;asciilifeform;and the pair -- broadcast 1625914;1489272327;asciilifeform;phf: i suppose the correct term would be 'orphaned' patches 1625915;1489272337;phf;right 1625916;1489272380;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: same q can be asked re block hashes 1625917;1489272394;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the consequences would likely be dire, ie, irrecoverable/invisible variant blockchain 1625918;1489272411;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: that's what i ended up concluding 1625919;1489272432;asciilifeform;which is one of the reasons why shitoshi's nonpositional tx indexing is retarded 1625920;1489272449;asciilifeform;(i.e. by hash of antecedent, rather than by where-it-is-in-blockchain) 1625921;1489272470;mircea_popescu;i don't think at the time he did this he had a very clear idea of the mempool / blockchain tx disjunction. 1625922;1489272473;phf;ben_vulpes: oh hey http://btcbase.org/patches/logbot-multiple-channels seems to be broken, missing antecedent for http://btcbase.org/hash/95A0046C0AF25E21DBA310217A289D7649DD86CB89709A89931BFE318A41022FFD4BA9DC046E04DAC1B32BC5304239866BF5CA9AD59328B7DA79B1D06437E273 1625923;1489272478;mircea_popescu;which explains a lot of things includingthe miner/node bug 1625924;1489272487;asciilifeform;ditto blocks, it is retarded for their hash to uniquely identify them for other calculations 1625925;1489272515;mircea_popescu;block/candidateblock. cb should be identified by hash ; block should be identified by height. 1625926;1489272532;asciilifeform;^ 1625927;1489272544;asciilifeform;just as i described for 'tx vs larval-tx' disjunction. 1625928;1489272627;mircea_popescu;tis been in the logs a few tiems. 1625929;1489272715;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the obvious interesting sequel to the q, is what would be the first symptom of a colliding pair of tx having been fired. 1625930;1489272731;mircea_popescu;variant sized blocks. 1625931;1489272789;asciilifeform;as i currently understand, both x and y would have to be valid tx, for anything to happen (if y is invalid, it will not be mined). 1625932;1489272809;mircea_popescu;but it can still end up in node's idea of blockchain 1625933;1489272821;asciilifeform;aha. 1625934;1489272822;mircea_popescu;just have to put it in your story of the block 1625935;1489272900;asciilifeform;bifurcation of ~block~ is even more interesting picture 1625936;1489272930;asciilifeform;you then can have forklets ~merge~, topologically, into what appears to be 1 chain 1625937;1489272949;asciilifeform;but with different nodes having entirely different pictures of history, depending on which one they saw first 1625938;1489274057;mircea_popescu;the largest problem being that as difficulty increases, it becomes more and more feasible to simply seek a hash, in comparative terms. considering the disproportion of effect (one gives you a 1/2/2/2/2/2 of 50 btc, the other fucks up the toy entirely) it's a virtual certainty that eventually it will be economically reasonable to divert resources from mining to this hash colliding. 1625939;1489274079;mircea_popescu;this is a fundamental and inescapable problem of usg-style hash functions. stuff like mpfhf mitigate THAT problem, but at a humongous cost. 1625940;1489274123;asciilifeform;there is also the possibility of not doing the idiot growing-string-of-zeroes method for difficulty growth 1625941;1489274345;mircea_popescu;yeah, but that fixes nothing. as long as you use hashing, you have collisions. 1625942;1489274346;asciilifeform;consider, for instance, instead of difficulty zeroes, you simply must match N bytes of ~previous~ block's hash. 1625943;1489274348;asciilifeform;and yes. 1625944;1489274379;mircea_popescu;that'd certainly be the right way to do it. it's not "must start with 5 0s, it's "must start with 5 bytes equal to prev block's" 1625945;1489274410;mircea_popescu;this alone puts a large kaibosh on shitty mining. 1625946;1489274417;asciilifeform;~exactly~ N, not 'at least' 1625947;1489274420;asciilifeform;but yes 1625948;1489274428;mircea_popescu;at least. 1625949;1489274435;mircea_popescu;0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004 block is valid now, too. 1625950;1489274450;asciilifeform;if 'at least', the degenerate case wins, i can qualify a block as the successor to itself 1625951;1489274464;mircea_popescu;for difficulty, yes 1625952;1489274467;mircea_popescu;but not for dblspends. 1625953;1489274486;mircea_popescu;there's more than one qualification. 1625954;1489274507;asciilifeform;how would you disqualify it for dblspends ? 1625955;1489274518;asciilifeform;if predecessor indexing is done by height, rather than hash 1625956;1489274546;mircea_popescu;because block 500 with hash x can't be followed by block 501 with hash x equal to itself because that block 501 would be trying to spend outputs that are already spent. 1625957;1489274571;asciilifeform;tru!! 1625958;1489274587;mircea_popescu;and in other nature loving, http://68.media.tumblr.com/ac1f2179359ad3d19124afec8b5d4f45/tumblr_o0j7n6hFvq1qc2yxpo1_1280.jpg 1625959;1489274607;asciilifeform;lol what is that device 1625960;1489274613;asciilifeform;on the pvc pipe legs 1625961;1489274613;mircea_popescu;a common cage 1625962;1489274619;asciilifeform;nono 1625963;1489274621;asciilifeform;behind 1625964;1489274631;asciilifeform;looks like american mailbox , or nazi crematorium, hybdir 1625965;1489274635;asciilifeform;hybrid 1625966;1489274635;mircea_popescu;oh. a riding fucker. 1625967;1489274664;asciilifeform;ah in usa for some reason these called 'sybian', after one common brand 1625968;1489274682;mircea_popescu;something like that 1625969;1489274879;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, i have combed trb src for a cap on tx input and output maxima, and found none 1625970;1489274894;asciilifeform;anybody know where ? or are they capped strictly by the block cap 1625971;1489275016;asciilifeform;( for a certain purpose i need to calculate the max bytefootprint of a tx ) 1625972;1489275202;phf;i believe it's not explicitly bound (i combed for limits while writing lisp btc and found none for any of the struct combinations) 1625973;1489275226;phf;everything's limited by how much you can stuff into a block 1625974;1489275317;asciilifeform;the equation i've come up with, is --assuming all scripts occupy their maximal size, 10000 bytes-- : 14+i*(10043)+(10011)*o 1625975;1489275323;asciilifeform;where i is the number of inputs, and o -- of outputs. 1625976;1489275398;asciilifeform;(and given that the scripts can be -- each -- individually anything up to 10000 -- you can have, theoretically, 1MB tx) 1625977;1489275413;asciilifeform;and any other size you want, below that. 1625978;1489275495;asciilifeform;this is pretty monstrous, it means that if you want no-heap (proper adatron) handling of tx, you gotta preallocate 1MB for EVERY SINGLE ONE when reading'em 1625979;1489275543;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in theory they shouldn't be capped outside of the block size. 1625980;1489275552;asciilifeform;now on the other hand, it may be possible to calculate max tx size IN GIVEN block 1625981;1489275557;asciilifeform;because block header tells us tx count. 1625982;1489275563;asciilifeform;and it is possible to compute a mintx. 1625983;1489275595;mircea_popescu;anyway, proper adatron -> trb-i -> fixed 2/2 txn model. 1625984;1489275616;phf;possibly proper adatron solution would be to allocate a block and use it as operational space too 1625985;1489275626;mircea_popescu;ie alloocate ada-heap ? 1625986;1489275633;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: if you haven't guessed, i have an incomplete one here (currently calling in my head 'nqb', 'not quite bitcoin') and was trying to adapt it to the very simple task of eating the existing blocks and parsing out the tx. 1625987;1489275645;mircea_popescu;no dice with that. 1625988;1489275656;mircea_popescu;~profoundly retarded~ has a meaning. 1625989;1489275657;asciilifeform;phf: no, see, you gotta know max size to make array. 1625990;1489275666;asciilifeform;otherwise, as mircea_popescu said, nodice. 1625991;1489275698;asciilifeform;one possible solution is binning 1625992;1489275717;asciilifeform;('child', 'woman', 'man', 'elephant' say) 1625993;1489275725;asciilifeform;fixed bottles. 1625994;1489275758;asciilifeform;what's the statistical distribution of tx sizes, gotta wonder 1625995;1489275762;asciilifeform;how many 'elephants' ? 1625996;1489275768;asciilifeform;(2+ standard dev, say) 1625997;1489275830;mircea_popescu;800ish > 50% ; 1600 20% sort of thing 1625998;1489275848;asciilifeform;when didja last measure this mircea_popescu ? 1625999;1489275866;mircea_popescu;> 10kb tx are rare, but not inexistent. and then there's periodic massive ones. 1626000;1489275877;asciilifeform;massive as in, most of a block ? 1626001;1489275889;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i measure it continuously, this is just distilled impression over years 1626002;1489275900;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform take for instance famous davout txn paying out bitbet. 1626003;1489275914;mircea_popescu;(which i didn't originally even think will get mined) 1626004;1489275920;asciilifeform;how much did that weigh 1626005;1489275931;mircea_popescu;lemme fish it out, pretty sure he published it 1626006;1489275962;mircea_popescu;http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-conclusion-statement 1626007;1489275983;mircea_popescu;18,5kb 1626008;1489275992;asciilifeform;large, but nowhere near block 1626009;1489276001;mircea_popescu;1 bitcet fee. 1626010;1489276015;asciilifeform;lol 1626011;1489276047;mircea_popescu;nah. though a 999kb one existed. 1626012;1489276061;asciilifeform;do you happen to recall in which block? 1626013;1489276078;mircea_popescu;bb41a757f405890fb0f5856228e23b715702d714d59bf2b1feb70d8b2b4e3e08 1626014;1489276093;mircea_popescu;block 364292 1626015;1489276103;asciilifeform;ooh nice 1626016;1489276105;asciilifeform;ty mircea_popescu 1626017;1489276115;mircea_popescu;nofee either. miner skulldulgery. 1626018;1489276125;asciilifeform;pretty obvious spamola 1626019;1489276140;mircea_popescu;it mostly wipes a large script bs. 1626020;1489276140;asciilifeform;from the original spamwave 1626021;1489276159;asciilifeform;(when gavin et al made 'brainwallets' seeded with common dictionary words, by the megatonne) 1626022;1489276213;mircea_popescu;anyway, pruned 550 or so bs uxto 1626023;1489276224;asciilifeform;pruning ain't a thing 1626024;1489276245;mircea_popescu;well, they were unspent before. fucking up the prb dried shit echafaudage 1626025;1489276257;ben_vulpes;phf: cool thanks, will investigate 1626026;1489276275;asciilifeform;(there is no way to demonstrate the destruction of coin in any permanent way, so this tx will remain relevant for so long as bitcoin marches along) 1626027;1489276295;mircea_popescu;anyway, point being, most txn are small but long tail exists. 1626028;1489276363;asciilifeform;however ! looks like we ~do~ have a fixed-size element: the script. 1626029;1489276373;asciilifeform;these can be the fs 'block'. 1626030;1489276396;asciilifeform;(the 10,000 + overhead, rounded to nearest cylinder.) 1626031;1489276513;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat 1626032;1489276572;mircea_popescu;meh. 1626033;1489276578;mircea_popescu;script needs to be killed / specified. 1626034;1489276593;mircea_popescu;dumbest fucking idea. "oh, instruction field in your money". 1626035;1489278864;mircea_popescu;ahahahaha. so in further "everyone in sweden is just asking to be raped with a toilet plunger", nobel prize for literature -> bob dylan. 1626036;1489279351;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1626033 << noshit! but it can only happen in trbi 1626037;1489279351;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 23:56 mircea_popescu: script needs to be killed / specified. 1626038;1489279362;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1626039;1489280034;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i was attempting a nonretarded trb-fs. 1626040;1489280569;Framedragger;asciilifeform: are you doing this to prototype your 32b tx header index idea? 1626041;1489280835;mircea_popescu;and in "creative punishment for when she leaves the seat down" : http://68.media.tumblr.com/a3df8a95aba72f77c3dd84453d8e0201/tumblr_nit6o4adp71tgdz6ro1_400.gif 1626042;1489283342;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/batsbzx/2017/34-80206.pdf 1626043;1489283404;ben_vulpes;> "the Commission believes that the significant markets for bitcoin are unregulated." 1626044;1489283485;mircea_popescu;doh. 1626045;1489283617;mod6;heheh 1626046;1489283642;ben_vulpes;"exchanges that account for the bulk of trading are subject to little regulatory oversight and that existing know-your-customer or identity-verification measures are lax and can be easily bypassed" 1626047;1489283685;mircea_popescu;in other usg, http://68.media.tumblr.com/f807573edb2b0f7a29f5ff72d97f83c1/tumblr_nhoc41C1Bp1r539hzo1_1280.jpg 1626048;1489283687;ben_vulpes;"because we've made it impractical to trade the underlying, nobody trades the underlying on our wholly-owned venues" 1626049;1489283695;mircea_popescu;aha. 1626050;1489283729;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> bashops uber alles << yeah, CI to mean doesn't mean "must use current devop-isms". we could build our own automated toolset. np. 1626051;1489283731;ben_vulpes;"daily trade volume is only a small volume of total bitcoin mined" 1626052;1489283748;mod6;*to me doesn't mean 1626053;1489283756;ben_vulpes;"in stark contrast to gold, where daily trade volume exceeds total mined by several orders of magnitude" 1626054;1489283782;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes isn't all teh butthurt delicious though ? "we are very upset that apparently we don't matter ; also we won't mention mp's warning about all this because then it won't burn so much." 1626055;1489283799;mircea_popescu;mod6 right you are. in fact it's pretty much what you['ve been doing. 1626056;1489283826;ben_vulpes;to jump over to mod6's thread for half a second, both he and i have our own suite of automated tests 1626057;1489283830;ben_vulpes;suites* 1626058;1489283852;ben_vulpes;er 1626059;1489283858;ben_vulpes;for v i suppose, nevermind. 1626060;1489283859;mircea_popescu;also wtf are they on about, 3600 bitcoin mined a day, 10-15k traded a day (on fiatola outlets), 30-50k total. 1626061;1489283863;mircea_popescu;that's a degree of magnitude. 1626062;1489283880;ben_vulpes;total outstanding, not traded over daily mining vol 1626063;1489283884;mircea_popescu;durr. 1626064;1489283889;mod6;in fantasy land, you can make up reality as you go. np. 1626065;1489283918;ben_vulpes;anyways, having thought about "testing" trb, i am interested to hear what kinds of tests framedragger would write 1626066;1489283930;mircea_popescu;!~ticker 1626067;1489283931;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 1180.9, Best ask: 1181.0, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 1181.0, 24 hour volume: 27111.34861041, 24 hour low: 1129.0, 24 hour high: 1196.6, 24 hour vwap: None 1626068;1489283949;mod6;ben_vulpes' is making some super cool v automated tests as well. there is a bit of overlap, but perhaps one day, his will become the defacto-standard tests. mine are a bit brittle to say the least. 1626069;1489283968;ben_vulpes;i went so far as to set up a solipsistic test net before bumping into the dumb-as-rocks "needs 2 nodes in order to mine" shit 1626070;1489284014;ben_vulpes;so before even thinking about CI the testing strategy needs some actual thought, planning, and likely at least one patch. maybe more. 1626071;1489284115;mircea_popescu;overlap is not badf either. 1626072;1489284142;mircea_popescu;but yeah, ben_vulpes has point. 1626073;1489284275;ben_vulpes;one quickly starts thinking thoughts like "verify whole chain for every vpatch" 1626074;1489284283;ben_vulpes;"sync from net for every vpatch" 1626075;1489284322;ben_vulpes;or possibly recently "sync from on-host, known-fast node for every vpatch" 1626076;1489284371;ben_vulpes;probably could be done on a machine costing ~2btc/yr 1626077;1489284384;ben_vulpes;entirely baseless estimate 1626078;1489284474;ben_vulpes;(well, not entirely baseless, i've put a modicum of thought into the topic and have been pricing a new box to boot) 1626079;1489284584;mircea_popescu;prolly should churn the chain as a test yeh. also a tx fuzzer would be great in general. 1626080;1489284627;ben_vulpes;what means "tx fuzzer" to mp? 1626081;1489284652;ben_vulpes;if afl is not a lurking piece of garbage, plugging trb into that might yield some interesting strange. 1626082;1489284943;mircea_popescu;it means you feed a trb to be tested randomly generated "txn" 1626083;1489284958;mircea_popescu;at the very least try see what happens in the obvious cases, doublespend, bad block etc. 1626084;1489285353;ben_vulpes;yup 1626085;1489285389;ben_vulpes;should even be possible to test reorg behavior! 1626086;1489285391;mircea_popescu;signatures don't match, scripts are bad, inputs are bad, outputs are too long, on it goes 1626087;1489285415;mircea_popescu;prolly but that's finnickyer. unless of course we bother to create 3rd item here, which would be a test chain. 1626088;1489285427;mircea_popescu;to be fed to node to be tested from block 1 onwards, can set own difficulty then. 1626089;1489285512;ben_vulpes;hey, if genesis is programmable, can generate chains for testing on the fly 1626090;1489285573;ben_vulpes;can even diddle trb-observed clock to get difficulty curve to do whatever 1626091;1489285634;ben_vulpes;i hope the point is coming through, though, that 'CI' is utterly irrelevant in the face of the scope of systems choreography demanded and actual tests to be written 1626092;1489285686;mircea_popescu;yeah 1626093;1489285710;mircea_popescu;well, i said it's not even a bad idea back then. 1626094;1489286347;ben_vulpes;unrelolted: https://heatst.com/tech/he-will-not-divide-us-livestream-placed-in-middle-of-nowhere-but-4chan-still-found-way-to-troll-it/ 1626095;1489286424;mircea_popescu;"anachronistic message board" ? 1626096;1489286426;*;mircea_popescu lost interest. 1626097;1489286928;asciilifeform;liquishit that tests to spec is still liquishit. 1626098;1489286962;asciilifeform;per dijkstra's 'tests reveal presence of bugs, but never their absence' 1626099;1489286993;mircea_popescu;this is no kind of argument against having test suite. 1626100;1489287031;asciilifeform;not argument against; but for realistic expectations. 1626101;1489287041;mircea_popescu;there aren't any expectations. 1626102;1489287098;asciilifeform;engineering without expectations is not detectably different from taking a shit and other excretory exertions 1626103;1489287141;asciilifeform;'oh i'll grunt and -- come what may !' 1626104;1489287205;asciilifeform;y'know, as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623271 1626105;1489287205;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 18:29 mircea_popescu: which is why all the impudent cuntlets want to be "in a creative career" aka hallucinated non-science. if irresponsible activity bereft of verification, ie, the antithesis of science, then their imposture has some space 1626106;1489287236;mircea_popescu;this is nosnense. 1626107;1489287266;mircea_popescu;engineering is specifically the practice of eliminating expectations from human behaviour. it is the hopeless adventure. 1626108;1489287272;asciilifeform;failure is not a defined concept absent expectations. 1626109;1489287300;asciilifeform;bridge holds 100 tanks indefinitely, or 500 for 30 minutes. is an expectation. 1626110;1489287312;mircea_popescu;not so. these are the materials, this is thereby the bridge. 1626111;1489287334;asciilifeform;that's called an african pile of shit, or, charitably, 'junkyard wars' contest. not engineering. 1626112;1489287348;mircea_popescu;nope. 1626113;1489287361;mircea_popescu;(materials, here, means : the river ; the metal ; the tanks) 1626114;1489287401;mircea_popescu;there's no expectation involved. for these tanks on this river out of this metal this is the bridge. 1626115;1489287405;mircea_popescu;there aren't two. this one. 1626116;1489287414;mircea_popescu;there's no expectation involved whatever. 1626117;1489287434;asciilifeform;shifting from a conceptual to a present 'this is the bridge you have, motherfuckers, drive' is dirty thinking. 1626118;1489287509;asciilifeform;at the design stage, there is an expectation, engineer knows in advance that if the thing buckles under any number of tanks that its surface might contain: stalin will shoot him 1626119;1489287533;mircea_popescu;no serious engineer thinks or cares about this 1626120;1489287562;asciilifeform;what does 'serious engineer' even mean, if not 'cares about this' 1626121;1489287582;mircea_popescu;"not cares about this" 1626122;1489287593;mircea_popescu;cares about this -> straight to alchemist corner 1626123;1489287594;asciilifeform;then mircea_popescu's 'serious engineer' includes docker rat 1626124;1489287613;mircea_popescu;no, because docker rat fails to correctly pile up his materials. 1626125;1489287658;asciilifeform;why does he fail, if not from refusing to agree to a verifiable expectation of correct function ? 1626126;1489287674;asciilifeform;fails because did not pray to vishnu correctly ? 1626127;1489287694;mircea_popescu;because he did not pile up all his materials. 1626128;1489287740;*;asciilifeform screws in brand-new gas mask canister 1626129;1489287749;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: say what means 'pile up all his materials' plox 1626130;1489287934;mircea_popescu;for the docker guy ? make pile of tanks (what he's engineering for) ; river (what he's engineering against) ; metal (what he's engineering with). 1626131;1489287946;mircea_popescu;people are utterly resistent to doing this, principally because hopemechanism/bad engineers. 1626132;1489287955;mircea_popescu;plenty of examples scattered in the logs, but anyway. 1626133;1489288039;asciilifeform;in what sense does 'pile' in this construction not equal to what other folx mean when they say 'plan' ? 1626134;1489288046;asciilifeform;let's take concrete example, 1626135;1489288076;mircea_popescu;ok 1626136;1489288078;asciilifeform;asciilifeform, drawing up FUCKGOATS, had to pick what voltage regulator to use, they come in wide variety of max & peak voltage and current ratings 1626137;1489288101;asciilifeform;the choice is constrained by the peak & avg. drains of the other components 1626138;1489288127;mircea_popescu;ok 1626139;1489288127;asciilifeform;at no point did asciilifeform make a physical 'pile' to determine the correct answer, it was arrived at on paper, with pen 1626140;1489288133;asciilifeform;where is then the 'pile' ? 1626141;1489288139;mircea_popescu;that's a pile alright. 1626142;1489288154;mircea_popescu;the meaning of pile is that they are defined, specified, circumscribed. 1626143;1489288155;asciilifeform;but not 'an expectation.' ? why the word substitution . 1626144;1489288159;mircea_popescu;docker dude dun do that. 1626145;1489288164;mircea_popescu;there's no expectation involved. 1626146;1489288189;asciilifeform;the expectation is that the capacity of the reg is > the current drain. of the floor in a house > the pianos. etc 1626147;1489288197;mircea_popescu;this is no expectation. 1626148;1489288213;mircea_popescu;what interval do you wait ? 1626149;1489288236;asciilifeform;well in the particular example given, failure would have become apparent within a millisecond or so 1626150;1489288241;asciilifeform;and you could smell it. 1626151;1489288251;mircea_popescu;expectation is the equivalent of the continuous tense, you may have expectations out of your household. but no expectations are involved in fuckgoats. if the current is what it was specified it'll work and if not it will burn. what do you ~expect~ ? 1626152;1489288278;asciilifeform;you expect the floor to stay put when the piano is brought into the house. 1626153;1489288286;mircea_popescu;nope. 1626154;1489288292;mircea_popescu;if it will or if it won't, either way. 1626155;1489288294;asciilifeform;and of the gadget, to shit forth rngolade , rather than malodorously combusting 1626156;1489288305;mircea_popescu;expect less live longer. 1626157;1489288330;mircea_popescu;i expect girl to shave. ie, tomorrow. i don't expect anything out of the floor. 1626158;1489288341;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu seems to think that 'expect' means 'unfoundedly expect' 1626159;1489288358;mircea_popescu;no, it means actual expect. something you want and will take time. 1626160;1489288369;mircea_popescu;"we're expecting her to deliver my child in june". that's expect. 1626161;1489288395;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu would not structure phrase, e.g., 'when i aim the rifle and pull trigger i expect to hit the target' ? 1626162;1489288431;mircea_popescu;sure. 1626163;1489288461;mircea_popescu;but i wouldn't say "when i pull trigger i expect round to discharge". because i don't. 1626164;1489288464;asciilifeform;but not 'i draw up a house and expect that the floor will hold my 48 pianos' ? 1626165;1489288471;mircea_popescu;not. 1626166;1489288497;asciilifeform;how does aiming the rifle differ from drawing up a house, other than time parameter ? 1626167;1489288515;mircea_popescu;cuz im involved in the aiming neh 1626168;1489288558;asciilifeform;i suspect that we've unearthed the point of disagreement here 1626169;1489288568;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu does not picture building the house with own hands 1626170;1489288581;mircea_popescu;why not ? 1626171;1489288594;asciilifeform;or so i read from 'im involved in the aiming' 1626172;1489288615;asciilifeform;presumably you could just as readily be involved in the felling of trees, mixing of cement, whatever else goes into building house. 1626173;1489288656;mircea_popescu;i didn't imagine that's what you mean. 1626174;1489288669;mircea_popescu;yes, if you meant "maybe alf typos the code and doesn't notice" then yes, expect. 1626175;1489288685;mircea_popescu;how this would work -- i've no idea, but technically i suppose it's there. 1626176;1489288712;asciilifeform;y'know, i could write an eliza that 'wins' arguments this way 1626177;1489288732;mircea_popescu;myeah. i expect you could. 1626178;1489288736;asciilifeform;can i use 'i didn't imagine that's what you mean' in the phrase table, or has mircea_popescu trademarked ! 1626179;1489288777;mircea_popescu;seriously though, trivial failure mode. compiler wil lcomplain if nothing else. 1626180;1489288791;asciilifeform;butno srsly i have nfi what mircea_popescu meant here. 1626181;1489288841;mircea_popescu;let's insist. 1626182;1489288847;asciilifeform;aite, i'm all ears 1626183;1489288863;asciilifeform;how does aiming the rifle differ, other than timewise, from designing a house that you then build with own hands 1626184;1489288926;mircea_popescu;mp goes hunting. if mp goes hunting without a rifle and bullets, mp has fucked up the tanks part of engineering. if mp goes hunting in unknown martian planet, ends up eaten by hunter-eater, mp has fucked up river part of engineering. if mp goes hunting in zoo, shoots english bobby through overpenetration, mp has fucked up tanks part of engineering. if mp goes hunting in hunting place and hunts quarry but misses his shot, tech 1626185;1489288926;mircea_popescu;nical alf-raised problem, mp still hunter. 1626186;1489288941;mircea_popescu;same exact thing with the docker people -- if theior problem was that they wrote spr1ntf it'd be one thing 1626187;1489288957;mircea_popescu;their problem, however, is that they have nfi what they're doing, like that dog driving van on trilema. 1626188;1489288993;asciilifeform;aaaah we had this thread!! 1626189;1489289004;mircea_popescu;prolly. 1626190;1489289007;asciilifeform;!#s матчасть 1626191;1489289007;a111;4 results for "матчасть", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C 1626192;1489289019;asciilifeform;^ what mircea_popescu referred to as 'tanks part' 1626193;1489289026;asciilifeform;we have a w0rd for it 1626194;1489289033;mircea_popescu;well i fucked it up, said tanks twice. first one is metals. 1626195;1489289043;mircea_popescu;but yes, it's not a novel thought by any means. 1626196;1489289109;asciilifeform;literally, 'material part', that is, of the immutable physical pieces of a problem. 1626197;1489289133;mircea_popescu;aha 1626198;1489289172;asciilifeform;http://lurkmore.so/images/7/78/Matchast%27.JPG << see also! 1626199;1489289193;asciilifeform;^ is this funny only to asciilifeform 1626200;1489289253;mircea_popescu;lol no, it's kinda funny 1626201;1489289968;mod6; <+mircea_popescu> signatures don't match, scripts are bad, inputs are bad, outputs are too long, on it goes << yeah, exactly. eventually coverage like this is a must. eventually. 1626202;1489290295;mircea_popescu;yea 1626203;1489290662;asciilifeform;http://lurkmore.so/images/b/b9/Kim_chen_zavod.jpg << in other lelz 1626204;1489290988;mod6;heheh. 1626205;1489291008;*;mod6 goes to read about Zuleika 1626206;1489291453;*;mircea_popescu is curious what peeps think. 1626207;1489291675;*;danielpbarron likes it so far 1626208;1489293428;asciilifeform;sed -n -e 's/^.*Ping timeout: //p' trilema.log | sort | uniq | cut -c1-3 | tr '\n' ' ' 1626209;1489293436;asciilifeform;240 244 245 246 248 249 250 251 252 255 256 257 258 260 264 265 268 272 273 276 1626210;1489293440;asciilifeform;whywhywhy. 1626211;1489293456;asciilifeform;why never 239 1626212;1489293459;asciilifeform;or 278 !!! 1626213;1489293471;asciilifeform;tell me o wise men. 1626214;1489295523;mircea_popescu;you won't see 239 cuz it timeouts at 240 lol. and if you wait enough might even see 278. 1626215;1489303322;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-12#1626153 <<< argument clinic!!1 1626216;1489303322;a111;Logged on 2017-03-12 03:11 mircea_popescu: nope. 1626217;1489303454;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-12#1626089 <<< this would be pretty cool, is also correct way to testnet 1626218;1489303454;a111;Logged on 2017-03-12 02:25 ben_vulpes: hey, if genesis is programmable, can generate chains for testing on the fly 1626219;1489305277;mircea_popescu;check it out internet boat hit mauritius 1626220;1489329863;Framedragger;https://github.com/adlai/cjhunt << nothing original to add 1626221;1489329871;Framedragger;oh shit clipboard 1626222;1489329878;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-12#1626065 << nothing original to add 1626223;1489329878;a111;Logged on 2017-03-12 01:58 ben_vulpes: anyways, having thought about "testing" trb, i am interested to hear what kinds of tests framedragger would write 1626224;1489329890;Framedragger;agree with mircea_popescu re fuzzing any inputs (primarily transactions) 1626225;1489329910;Framedragger;would be interesting to set up shitty-network-failure scenarios to see how 'antifragile' it is with regards to syncing up. 1626226;1489329938;Framedragger;this would require a decently thought out testing framework (i don't mean shitty-web-framework, just, a systematized approach) 1626227;1489330029;Framedragger;this would be decently-demanding undertaking though, so makes sense to start from simpler unit tests which e.g. simply check if hash/signature checking routines work well. would still be handy for regression testing during development / when code is added, etc. 1626228;1489330030;mircea_popescu;yeah a blockchain-and-mempool testing harness would be a mighty fine item to have. 1626229;1489330165;Framedragger;probably worth thinking about it more, it'd be quite a spiffy thing indeed... that said, i have a more general concern with time-sunk-cost-to-trb. i do wonder how realistic it is to expect a trb-i in the years to come. if it is, then working on shitty legacy trb codebase is opportunity cost par excellence :( ; but, maybe testing harness could be generic enough to be easily re-usable. 1626230;1489330228;mircea_popescu;it's not just the direct effect ("generic enough to be re-usable"). much more important are the second order effects. (if you never went to school, you'd never even HAVE KNOWN what computers are, and consequently...) sort of thing. 1626231;1489330258;mircea_popescu;it is a very false idea that what we say here "is in the open" and thereby "anyone could" etc. the prb devs can't, notwithstanding their own delusions of information and ability. 1626232;1489330276;mircea_popescu;goes right into the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625397 1626233;1489330276;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 14:39 mircea_popescu: you ever go to school ? what usually happens there's a chick there that's really good pre-puberty. then she starts bleeding, and she skips some classes / homeworks / attentionpaying. and then... she can never catch back up again. because interlocking. 1626234;1489330307;Framedragger;i see what you mean - knowledge gained on the problem space, processes with dealing with problems and researching this domain developed, etc. 1626235;1489330378;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1626236;1489330391;mircea_popescu;and the product of this ("obviousness") is reallyt the lest fungible item there is. 1626237;1489331698;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-12#1626220 << that thing requires prb to work 1626238;1489331698;a111;Logged on 2017-03-12 14:44 Framedragger: https://github.com/adlai/cjhunt << nothing original to add 1626239;1489336787;asciilifeform;!!up fake_space_whale 1626240;1489336788;deedbot;fake_space_whale voiced for 30 minutes. 1626241;1489336864;fake_space_whale;Is there an intro to trilema somewhere? I tried poking around the website and didn't find anything in my brief hunt. 1626242;1489336894;asciilifeform;fake_space_whale: http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic 1626243;1489337115;fake_space_whale;okay thanks. 1626244;1489337647;mircea_popescu;ugh. between the blog and the log he didn't find anything ?! 1626245;1489337854;mircea_popescu;anyway, that's a kickass article so there is that. 1626246;1489337980;mircea_popescu;aaand in other lulz, https://archive.is/BNCIn 1626247;1489338569;asciilifeform;lol!! 1626248;1489338637;mircea_popescu;!~calc 7*10**9/27**4 1626249;1489338638;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: 7*10**9/27**4 = 13171.734962112445 1626250;1489338665;mircea_popescu;fine illustration of birthday paradox. if names were 4 characters long and randomly distributed, there'd be 13k people with the same name 1626251;1489338680;mircea_popescu;~on average~ 1626252;1489338869;mircea_popescu;anyway, in other lulz, what is the winklevoss / silbert / etc usgian dorks claim to fame now ? 1626253;1489343139;davout;mircea_popescu: why 27 ? 1626254;1489343153;davout;!~calc 7*10**9/26**4 1626255;1489343155;jhvh1;davout: 7*10**9/26**4 = 15318.091103252687 1626256;1489343164;mircea_popescu;i got more letters apparently. 1626257;1489343581;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-slaves-of-1935/ << Trilema - The slaves of 1935 1626258;1489344014;Framedragger;asciilifeform: OT and just grammar nitpicking, but in http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/sage_pill.py line 22, s/Could connect/Could not connect/ 1626259;1489344105;asciilifeform;Framedragger: ah lol 1626260;1489344118;Framedragger;maybe not important enough to recalc and repub checksums heh 1626261;1489344119;asciilifeform;Framedragger: you have a probe nao ? 1626262;1489344158;Framedragger;asciilifeform: mno, this was a super random find, was going over some logs, re-read piece of your sage probe article, poked source out of curiosity 1626263;1489344313;asciilifeform;lolk 1626264;1489344324;*;asciilifeform currently occupied with printing FUCKGOATS manuals, colour laser 1626265;1489344382;Framedragger;ahhh good stuff. 1626266;1489344397;*;Framedragger patiently awaits merchandise from the master 1626267;1489344463;asciilifeform;they're going out this week. 1626268;1489345634;Framedragger;asciilifeform: cool deal! 1626269;1489345654;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-12#1626094 << very nice! flight trail and star map correlation etc 1626270;1489345654;a111;Logged on 2017-03-12 02:39 ben_vulpes: unrelolted: https://heatst.com/tech/he-will-not-divide-us-livestream-placed-in-middle-of-nowhere-but-4chan-still-found-way-to-troll-it/ 1626271;1489345669;Framedragger;"when 4chan / $an_internet sets his mind to something" 1626272;1489346161;asciilifeform;http://nosuchlabs.com UPDATED! 1626273;1489346167;asciilifeform;(scroll to end) 1626274;1489346195;asciilifeform;ow fuck, html mutilation of the commands 1626275;1489346202;*;asciilifeform boils with hatred 1626276;1489346342;asciilifeform;fixed. 1626277;1489346351;asciilifeform;i made the mistake of editing the text on a crapple shitintosh 1626278;1489346365;asciilifeform;it shat orc glyphs into the ascii. 1626279;1489346468;Framedragger;i really admire the amount of effort you took to carefully spell out ways of auditing the thing 1626280;1489346487;Framedragger;^ should be gold standard for hw vendors for all i know 1626281;1489346489;asciilifeform;Framedragger: these are just basic tests. and distinct from the proper audit described in earlier text 1626282;1489346497;asciilifeform;where you actually determine that the cpld follows the claimed logic. 1626283;1489346519;Framedragger;asciilifeform: i understand, but i mean the *detail*, etc. - it's a nice manual with everything spelled out for the user 1626284;1489346524;Framedragger;right, right. 1626285;1489346535;asciilifeform;Framedragger: the auditability is the entire point of FUCKGOATS. 1626286;1489346546;asciilifeform;and distinguishes it from literally every other rng in existence . 1626287;1489346723;Framedragger;yes yes i understand, the cherry on top is that you make sure it's also *easy*. 1626288;1489347646;asciilifeform;updated again. 1626289;1489357044;mircea_popescu;yeah the find a flag by polaris story is pretty cool. 1626290;1489357056;mircea_popescu;strongest rebuff i know of the whole "ustards, psssh." angle. 1626291;1489357096;mircea_popescu;Framedragger yeah, thourogh, isn't he. 1626292;1489357139;Framedragger;for reals. 1626293;1489357170;mircea_popescu;!!key euloraplayer 1626294;1489357170;deedbot;Not registered. 1626295;1489359183;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/i-love-her-or-collection-des-billets-doux-cca-2017/ << Trilema - I love her, or, Collection des billets-doux cca 2017. 1626296;1489363997;asciilifeform;!~later tell phf i dug out my crate of dead bolix boards, turns out i'm a chump, the pcb in question was a dead xl1200 ~i/o~ board. the only cpu on it is what looks like a z80! 0 smbx silicon. 1626297;1489363997;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1626298;1489364908;asciilifeform;!!up euloraplayer 1626299;1489364908;deedbot;euloraplayer voiced for 30 minutes. 1626300;1489364931;euloraplayer;cool 1626301;1489365180;asciilifeform;!~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/UXoWH/?raw=true 1626302;1489365180;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1626303;1489368291;mircea_popescu;!!key euloraplayer 1626304;1489368292;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/F48CD9A94EADD4C2A1866CFA23176D4EF4080556.asc 1626305;1489368547;mircea_popescu;on it asciilifeform 1626306;1489368637;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626296 << bwahgahah dude what. you're like... THE champion of making oneself look bad. it's livresque! 1626307;1489368637;a111;Logged on 2017-03-13 00:13 asciilifeform: !~later tell phf i dug out my crate of dead bolix boards, turns out i'm a chump, the pcb in question was a dead xl1200 ~i/o~ board. the only cpu on it is what looks like a z80! 0 smbx silicon. 1626308;1489368680;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu never thought he had $object in treasure chest and then discovered that not ? 1626309;1489368776;mircea_popescu;not usually after throwing an immense hissy fit, of dubious footing, which wasn't all that well received by teh very people in question! and then http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625230 1626310;1489368776;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 01:41 phf: asciilifeform: i don't think that's a wasted effort. i got in touch with zeptobars people again, and my current best option (since they said shipping to russia is maddness) is to travel moscows sometime in summer and hand deliver the chip. assuming that i have one, but i take it you're no longer interested since "snap4 source" 1626311;1489368785;mircea_popescu;it's the context, not the substance, that controls here. 1626312;1489368791;asciilifeform;'hissy fit' was about something entirely else ? 1626313;1489368857;mircea_popescu;you've a long way to come in ranting quality, m'boy! 1626314;1489368867;asciilifeform;asciilifeform bought a massive pile of dead sbmx iron many years ago. thought that somewhere in it is $part. turns out 0. 1626315;1489368907;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform also has a ~working~ 3620 but it is useless for phf's purpose , it was implemented as massive pile of ttl and a few ~dozen~ gate arrays ) 1626316;1489369134;asciilifeform;https://www.okqubit.net/symbolics/dsc05367.jpg << not my photo, but i have this type 1626317;1489369237;asciilifeform;https://www.okqubit.net/symbolics << other photos from same, he has same memory, i/o, etc. as my unit. 1626318;1489369323;asciilifeform;( if the cards look somewhat familiar to readers, it is because they are physically standard 'vme', as also seen on certain sun and other large machines of the period ) 1626319;1489370086;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3cRgH/?raw=true 1626320;1489370673;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: got it 1626321;1489370864;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/97826E4EE4EB944382CB4FB00277D2EA7295DD8FBEFB3754C7A9AE0113985873 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1724...7137 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.242.75.252 (ssh-rsa key from 109.242.75.252 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (adsl-252.109.242.75.tellas.gr. GR 13 G) 1626322;1489370865;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/97826E4EE4EB944382CB4FB00277D2EA7295DD8FBEFB3754C7A9AE0113985873 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1697...3209 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '109.242.75.252 (ssh-rsa key from 109.242.75.252 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (adsl-252.109.242.75.tellas.gr. GR 13 G) 1626323;1489371070;mircea_popescu;phuctor is like teh eternal flame of the republic by now 1626324;1489371283;asciilifeform;!$ ssh 109.242.75.252 1626325;1489371284;scriba;ssh banner of 109.242.75.252 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-8ubuntu1 1626326;1489371289;BingoBoingo;http://oglaf.com/donotclean/ 1626327;1489374859;asciilifeform;!!up adlai 1626328;1489374859;deedbot;adlai voiced for 30 minutes. 1626329;1489378758;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625922 << no idea how that came to be, but superseded by logbot-multiple-channels-corrected in any case 1626330;1489378758;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 22:47 phf: ben_vulpes: oh hey http://btcbase.org/patches/logbot-multiple-channels seems to be broken, missing antecedent for http://btcbase.org/hash/95A0046C0AF25E21DBA310217A289D7649DD86CB89709A89931BFE318A41022FFD4BA9DC046E04DAC1B32BC5304239866BF5CA9AD59328B7DA79B1D06437E273 1626331;1489380445;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E315F24020858F72C5BDC6A741CE5377B67D96960C54EC4746E4045ABFE1C5D2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1362...1353 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '194.29.174.44 (ssh-rsa key from 194.29.174.44 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (omega.if.pw.edu.pl. PL) 1626332;1489380445;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E315F24020858F72C5BDC6A741CE5377B67D96960C54EC4746E4045ABFE1C5D2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1771...5857 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '194.29.174.44 (ssh-rsa key from 194.29.174.44 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (omega.if.pw.edu.pl. PL) 1626333;1489381538;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/060F0CD9AADFA05AF6A895EEEB9A46E1BC488C05498CF8A7F90684E0ADE3026A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1453...4469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.169.123.42 (ssh-rsa key from 200.169.123.42 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (200-169-123-42.claro.net.br. BR) 1626334;1489381538;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/060F0CD9AADFA05AF6A895EEEB9A46E1BC488C05498CF8A7F90684E0ADE3026A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1790...2437 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.169.123.42 (ssh-rsa key from 200.169.123.42 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (200-169-123-42.claro.net.br. BR) 1626335;1489382972;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1626336;1489382981;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1236.32, vol: 5782.57372799 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1219.033, vol: 5324.81896 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1231.1, vol: 19521.32660081 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1175.776, vol: 4702.36620000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1223.373, vol: 2280.87045205 | Volume-weighted last average: 1222.80881861 1626337;1489383002;*;BingoBoingo unsure if this is *MOON* or *Crashing* 1626338;1489383018;ben_vulpes;oh i thought the failure of the don't-call-it-an-etf ripped the buy side clean out of the market though 1626339;1489383211;BingoBoingo;I kinda thought it would have went through because USG needs more thrashing about in desperation. 1626340;1489383243;BingoBoingo;Apparently though their fixation on Trump leads them to forget you can't spell Trump without MP 1626341;1489385892;ben_vulpes;lol 1626342;1489385931;ben_vulpes;i figured it was a shoo-in to provide a sham escape valve for 401k funbucks 1626343;1489388811;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/13/my-future-last-laugh/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - My Future (last laugh) 1626344;1489408222;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo o wow don't tell me the "bitcoin crashes because usg postures re its own paper bitcoin-ersatz" thing failed to last the week 1626345;1489408243;mircea_popescu;how can be!!! THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD must be more important than this!!11 waaah! 1626346;1489410670;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes it occurs to me, btw, that wrt the problem of the space for the right sidebar hanbot actually has the perfect fucking solution. check out thewhet.net : there's those selectors uptop, can have n overlays this way. 1626347;1489410927;Framedragger;doesn't work on lynx tho. 1626348;1489410958;Framedragger;requires jquery i think 1626349;1489410980;mircea_popescu;meh yeah it's js'd. a well 1626350;1489410993;Framedragger;breaks your http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595420 policy :) 1626351;1489410993;a111;Logged on 2017-01-03 13:51 mircea_popescu: i use lynx and curl. 1626352;1489411000;Framedragger;but works nicely yeah 1626353;1489411001;mircea_popescu;jquery idtabs etc 1626354;1489411087;mircea_popescu;no real way to make this work otherwise, sadly. unless of course one's willing to write ~a 3d simulator via html5 1626355;1489413353;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626306 << on top of that i brought it up with a whisperer, i got back "oh yeah, the loper os guy! i emailed him some time ago, but didn't get any response. he probably thought i'm some kind of tourist." 1626356;1489413353;a111;Logged on 2017-03-13 01:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626296 << bwahgahah dude what. you're like... THE champion of making oneself look bad. it's livresque! 1626357;1489413431;asciilifeform;tourist? 1626358;1489413454;phf;it's american slang, means like a schmuck, a random person 1626359;1489413473;asciilifeform;incidentally i finally agree with mircea_popescu : email dunwork 1626360;1489413597;asciilifeform;at one time i found a reply from al 'uncle al' schwartz that sat in a spam queue for (yes) several years 1626361;1489413819;asciilifeform;so now i cannot say 'eh nobody emailed' 1626362;1489413826;mircea_popescu;heh 1626363;1489413861;asciilifeform;meanwhile in the test room, 'Serial correlation coefficient is 0.000000 (totally uncorrelated = 0.0).' << i had nfi this was possible 1626364;1489413884;mircea_popescu;lel. are they shipping ? 1626365;1489413910;mircea_popescu;phf funny that he spent any time on bbsen / early mailing lists and dunno what tourist is 1626366;1489413928;mircea_popescu;!#s "blinken" 1626367;1489413929;a111;30 results for "\"blinken\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22blinken%22 1626368;1489413961;asciilifeform;i'm familiar with the usage, but it was a cache miss, been eons since i saw someone referred to as 'tourist' 1626369;1489413987;mircea_popescu;yeah, srsly, sounds like 90s spirit 1626370;1489414008;mircea_popescu;anyway, tourist = das rubbernecken sichtseeren 1626371;1489414611;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: and yes, they are shipping as soon as crate of rng lids (due in today) is here. 1626372;1489416255;mircea_popescu;nice 1626373;1489416819;mircea_popescu;so asciilifeform got an hour to hold my hand getting your ssh thing up ? i intend to bring a constellation and finally got everything lined up. 1626374;1489416857;asciilifeform;aha 1626375;1489416878;mircea_popescu;aite, what do i do ? 1626376;1489416908;asciilifeform;http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000252.html << start with this recipe 1626377;1489416914;mircea_popescu;aite. 1626378;1489416921;asciilifeform;and say if any of the steps dun make sense 1626379;1489416936;asciilifeform;this presupposes that you have a trb+wires built 1626380;1489416939;asciilifeform;if not, gotta do that 1st. 1626381;1489416968;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: are you making a slave, or slave+master, or which 1626382;1489417175;mircea_popescu;i do not. 1626383;1489417197;mircea_popescu;i intend to make a half dozen masters, slave them to each other, and then let people get pipes. l1terate people, obviously. 1626384;1489417202;mircea_popescu;i imagine you'll want a bunch 1626385;1489417218;mircea_popescu;so where's the trb+wires recipe ? 1626386;1489417224;asciilifeform;linked just above 1626387;1489417231;asciilifeform;or you mean the vpatch 1626388;1489417267;asciilifeform;it is on the ml, and also visible in phf's thing, http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_wires_rev1 1626389;1489417284;mircea_popescu;aite lemme see what i got here 1626390;1489417291;asciilifeform;(it vflows directly from mod6's 'makefiles' milestone) 1626391;1489417328;mircea_popescu;so apparently this node was build via trinque.sh 1626392;1489417332;mircea_popescu;is that out of date ? 1626393;1489417339;asciilifeform;indeed 1626394;1489417343;asciilifeform;about a year iirc. 1626395;1489417347;mircea_popescu;what was it superseded by ? 1626396;1489417356;asciilifeform;mod6's fully automatic build system 1626397;1489417368;mircea_popescu;a right, we get to test this too! 1626398;1489417369;mircea_popescu;where was it ? 1626399;1489417370;asciilifeform;http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html << 1626400;1489417373;mircea_popescu;ty 1626401;1489417395;asciilifeform;btw it gets you the 'makefiles' vtree 1626402;1489417403;asciilifeform;to which can apply the wires patch. 1626403;1489417408;mircea_popescu;0x20) Get http://deedbot.org/deed-427443-14.txt : name it 'pkgconf-0.8.9.tar.bz2.asc' 1626404;1489417412;mircea_popescu;also out of date i take it ? 1626405;1489417423;asciilifeform;nope, that part is current 1626406;1489417427;asciilifeform;and i whined about it here 1626407;1489417430;mircea_popescu;but doesn't include the wires ? 1626408;1489417439;asciilifeform;nope, wires are currently filed under 'experimental' 1626409;1489417447;asciilifeform;and at any rate happened after mod6's 'makefiles' release. 1626410;1489417487;asciilifeform;( i introduced it on feb. 23 ) 1626411;1489417499;mircea_popescu;alrighty, so in order to add the wires i'd put in there 0x21) http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_wires_rev1.txt > asciilifeform_wires_rev1.asc ? 1626412;1489417526;asciilifeform;nope, the .asc thing is just for the tarballs for deps (bdb and other horrors) 1626413;1489417543;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_wires_rev1.txt > asciilifeform_wires_rev1.txt ?! 1626414;1489417543;asciilifeform;the vpatch will go in your .patches, where everything from genesis onwards lives 1626415;1489417578;asciilifeform;if you haven't yet tried mod6's buildtron, run it per the recipe literally first, it will not rebuild the deps every time, is reasonably clever 1626416;1489417591;asciilifeform;afterwards you can add wires or whichever other experimental knobs, to the vtree, and rebuild. 1626417;1489417602;mircea_popescu;yes, stop squiriming and state for the record how do i add your experimental item to my build tree. 1626418;1489417623;asciilifeform;i just said above: you put it in the .patches dir. and its seal, in your .seals 1626419;1489417644;mircea_popescu;you did not say, you just waved your arms in an incomprehensible fashion. 1626420;1489417645;asciilifeform;( mod6's recipe describes this step in detail ) 1626421;1489417651;mircea_popescu;0x21) http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_wires_rev1.txt > asciilifeform_wires_rev1.asc << we are currently here. 1626422;1489417671;asciilifeform;ok backtrack : 1626423;1489417694;asciilifeform;see mod6's document, step '0x09) `mkdir patches` Gather trb vpatches from http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches in which ever manner suits you best.' 1626424;1489417743;mircea_popescu;aaalrighty! 1626425;1489417752;phf;curl http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_wires_rev1/file -o patches/asciilifeform_wires_rev1.vpatch; curl http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_wires_rev1/seal/asciilifeform -o seals/asciilifeform_wires_rev1.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig 1626426;1489417756;asciilifeform;that's where all of the patches from which trb is made, live. 1626427;1489417784;mircea_popescu;phf ty 1626428;1489417798;asciilifeform;ty phf . but it was not clear to me what piece mircea_popescu had the problem with, was it where to get the patch, or where to put it. 1626429;1489417810;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so the defensive play is to provide both. 1626430;1489417823;mircea_popescu;and the need to backtrack is generally mentor-induced, mind. 1626431;1489417860;asciilifeform;i assumed (apparently wrongly) that mircea_popescu remembered basic vtronics . 1626432;1489417898;asciilifeform;( you have a .wot, .seals, .patches, these can be named something else, but these are their conventional names; out of these, vtron 'presses' a particular tree that you want.) 1626433;1489417911;mircea_popescu;i'm as you well know the least intelligent or technically apt person here, and it takes a significant amount of backroom dealing as well as outright bribery to even get you lot to tolerate my presence. 1626434;1489417917;mircea_popescu;you know, like the british empire in india. 1626435;1489417918;phf;i actually need to fix btcbase to make sure file names state consistent with vtronics model.. 1626436;1489419572;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626396 << http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000190.html << I wrote the first cut of those too. 1626437;1489419572;a111;Logged on 2017-03-13 15:02 asciilifeform: mod6's fully automatic build system 1626438;1489419618;trinque;I don't even remember what the shell script would've been. Probably some stab earlier at what became the makefiles 1626439;1489419767;mircea_popescu;i can pasterbin if you'd like ? 1626440;1489419836;trinque;only for curiousity's sake. it certainly isn't worth using over what's in the V tree. 1626441;1489419882;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/9XRK3/?raw=true 1626442;1489419901;mircea_popescu;5046 Dec 21 2015 trinque.sh* 1626443;1489420464;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-21#1349879 << ah found it, that was a mod6 script I tweaked in some manner 1626444;1489420464;a111;Logged on 2015-12-21 23:38 mircea_popescu: trinque mind dpasting your fixed version then ? 1626445;1489420484;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-21#1349889 1626446;1489420484;a111;Logged on 2015-12-21 23:44 trinque: http://deedbot.org/build-bitcoind-99997K.sh 1626447;1489420492;mircea_popescu;aha 1626448;1489420509;mircea_popescu;this box is too cool for skewl. 1626449;1489421431;mircea_popescu;epic. so this built splendidly, mod6 tis a pleasure working with your recipe man. 1626450;1489421516;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc it also produces repeatable (bitwise) binary. 1626451;1489421551;mircea_popescu;yeah. and it musls all the way, it's a total collossus of german engineering. 1626452;1489421558;mircea_popescu;so, now i have your patch and seal alf. next ? 1626453;1489421583;asciilifeform;now they go in patches and seals, respectively ; 1626454;1489421596;asciilifeform;now press to it : 1626455;1489421619;mircea_popescu;yeah that's where they went. 1626456;1489421662;asciilifeform;./v.pl p v trb54 asciilifeform_wires_rev1.vpatch 1626457;1489421670;asciilifeform;^ should now work. 1626458;1489421688;mircea_popescu;File: trb54/bitcoin/.gitignore 1626459;1489421688;mircea_popescu;Expected: 9a57fba56bdaf8ac851e2a336013f03f354005dee6f12f6d472882b284dd5cdae09d0f57729d877c0cf7dfee0f8bea8b602492860ae703f3f5934de15c7514ae 1626460;1489421689;mircea_popescu; Actual: 4623a5815e8c30cc2bf90c7d3b9a0470160165d934796388eafe07edff3bc154c42bb4ed3e8e7055135b80d75ee478b5e40742bf682fc66ac879cfd09a38c628 1626461;1489421689;mircea_popescu;Pressed file hash did not match expected! 1626462;1489421690;mircea_popescu;fails. 1626463;1489421708;asciilifeform;lolwat 1626464;1489421726;mircea_popescu;i am at yer disposal 1626465;1489421734;asciilifeform;paste this file ? 1626466;1489421760;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/EkpM8/?raw=true 1626467;1489421844;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this looks like a bug in mod6's vtron : 1626468;1489421866;mircea_popescu;we ended up with subtle divergence in useless files ? 1626469;1489421871;asciilifeform;your copy of this turd (quite unnecessary in trb, in fact, but that's besides the point, we inherited it in genesis) consists of the original concatenated to itself ! 1626470;1489421887;mircea_popescu;you know it can be patched out. 1626471;1489421905;asciilifeform;it can, but that doesn't fix whatever resulted in it being appended to itself during the press 1626472;1489421910;asciilifeform;mod6 . paging mod6 ! 1626473;1489421917;mircea_popescu;alrighty. 1626474;1489421925;asciilifeform;in the meantime can try using asciilifeform's original vtron 1626475;1489421934;mircea_popescu;ima be available most of today to fux with this so no biggy. 1626476;1489421937;asciilifeform;( which iirc mircea_popescu and also hanbot successfully used to build trb ) 1626477;1489421957;mircea_popescu;yeah, but no, no gains in forking the process. let the foundation item be apical 1626478;1489421981;mircea_popescu;meanwhile /me will go research how to write a patch to take out .gitignore altogether. 1626479;1489422005;mircea_popescu;which is of course bound to hit the situation where we have no proper treatment of file removal in vtron because old horrors. 1626480;1489422023;asciilifeform;we have the improper treatment, where the thing gets -------'d 1626481;1489422025;asciilifeform;linewise 1626482;1489422033;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform in fact i can't actually patch it out as it won't match the correct file huh, it does line by line removal 1626483;1489422041;asciilifeform;( and where it won't erase unless the hash of the victim matches! ) 1626484;1489422043;mircea_popescu;yeah but it has to be teh correct file then :D 1626485;1489422049;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1626486;1489422068;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you also might have other filed doubled up because mod6's vtron did append instead of create somewhere, it looks like 1626487;1489422074;asciilifeform;*files 1626488;1489422087;mircea_popescu;i have no idea how the binary would have come out then ?! 1626489;1489422091;mircea_popescu;shall i hash it ? lessee 1626490;1489422106;asciilifeform;it happened on the 2nd press attempt 1626491;1489422112;asciilifeform;oh i have a clue : 1626492;1489422122;asciilifeform;looks like this is what mod6's vtron does instead of overwriting files 1626493;1489422122;mircea_popescu;sha512sum bitcoind 1626494;1489422122;mircea_popescu;6ba4ff7bb8ea67e2b6a7d407903ad31a0182a4a3128216379e618312bd2f30aaf31dc148d20168c3b0bf3079021eb9040b94701a1a5223b03b4151f711444fe0 bitcoind 1626495;1489422127;asciilifeform;rm -rf trb54 1626496;1489422129;asciilifeform;and then press again. 1626497;1489422143;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this was a virgin space 1626498;1489422152;asciilifeform;nope, remember, you built the binary 1626499;1489422153;mircea_popescu;i made a special directory for it, that was empty at start. 1626500;1489422163;asciilifeform;yeah but his vtron pressed to that dir once. 1626501;1489422167;mircea_popescu;never 1626502;1489422170;mircea_popescu; /trb2016-02-20/trb54/bitcoin/bin < 1626503;1489422177;asciilifeform;it had to , for the build to proceed 1626504;1489422194;asciilifeform;( there'dve been nothing to build, if it had not pressed ) 1626505;1489422207;mircea_popescu;that build happened in ~/trb/rotor/TEST2 etc 1626506;1489422226;mircea_popescu;hm are we talking at cross purposes ? 1626507;1489422244;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu, let's backtrack, and tellme what happens when 1626508;1489422247;asciilifeform;./v.pl p v trbfoo asciilifeform_wires_rev1.vpatch 1626509;1489422259;mircea_popescu;you want me to run that ? 1626510;1489422262;asciilifeform;aha 1626511;1489422271;asciilifeform;it should make the dir and press to it 1626512;1489422305;mircea_popescu;made and pressed 1626513;1489422310;mircea_popescu;let's now examine the .gitinfo 1626514;1489422319;asciilifeform;should looks like the expected one. 1626515;1489422326;asciilifeform;and everything else likewise. 1626516;1489422350;asciilifeform;( if you examine bitcoinrpc.cpp, you will see the wire option , for instance ) 1626517;1489422356;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/76EwC/?raw=true aha 1626518;1489422374;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu that looks like the doubled-up one 1626519;1489422392;mircea_popescu;well it's what's in there. 1626520;1489422394;asciilifeform;is that what came out of the new press also ! 1626521;1489422401;mircea_popescu;as best i can tell. 1626522;1489422462;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: if you press to the makefiles head do you get a concatenation as well? 1626523;1489422481;*;asciilifeform repeated mircea_popescu's steps locally, just now, and got a correct result 1626524;1489422491;*;asciilifeform quite dumbfounded 1626525;1489422523;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-static_makefile_v002.8 ? 1626526;1489422528;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you pasted the .gitignore from inside the resulting dir 'trbfoo' ? make sure this was so ? 1626527;1489422537;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: makefiles.vpatch 1626528;1489422556;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pebkac. wrong gitignore. lessee. 1626529;1489422570;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles 1626530;1489422624;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Bc0If/?raw=true ! 1626531;1489422700;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: looks like this worked. confirmed that mod6's vtron doesn't check for file-exists, appends. (i won't even blame him, as such, this is the default idiot behaviour of gnudiff !) 1626532;1489422713;ben_vulpes;looks like mine 1626533;1489422719;mircea_popescu;alrighty. 1626534;1489422723;mircea_popescu;so that out of the way, 1626535;1489422733;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: now all you gotta do is to move the subdir 'bitcoin' inside this 'trbfoo' to replace the 'bitcoin' dir in trb54 1626536;1489422741;asciilifeform;and then run make 1626537;1489422818;mircea_popescu;mv ~/trb2016-02-20/trbfoo/bitcoin/* ~/trb2016-02-20/trb54/bitcoin/* ? 1626538;1489422832;asciilifeform;rm -rf ~/trb2016-02-20/trb54/bitcoin 1626539;1489422855;asciilifeform;mv ~/trb2016-02-20/trbfoo/bitcoin ~/trb2016-02-20/trb54/bitcoin 1626540;1489422915;mircea_popescu;[~/trb2016-02-20/trb54]$ make ftr ? 1626541;1489422932;asciilifeform;the makefile is inside 'bitcoin' dir 1626542;1489422936;asciilifeform;so cd to it and then 'make'. 1626543;1489422961;mircea_popescu;mv: cannot stat `boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2.asc': No such file or directory 1626544;1489422962;mircea_popescu;make[1]: *** [boost_1_52_0.tar.bz2] Error 1 1626545;1489422980;mircea_popescu;you nuked my bitcoin isntall didn't you. 1626546;1489423004;asciilifeform;if you still have the deps somewhere, copy'em over, otherwise gotta download'em 1626547;1489423009;mircea_popescu;sigh. 1626548;1489423016;asciilifeform;(for some reason mod6 put them inside the dir that gets pressed) 1626549;1489423016;mircea_popescu;THIS KINDERGARTEN LEVEL BULLSHIT!!1 1626550;1489423036;ben_vulpes;device has a cost 1626551;1489423037;mircea_popescu;well, ima start over now. isn't that fucking wunderbar. 1626552;1489423072;ben_vulpes;if the makefile is intact, make ONLINE=1 i believe is the flag for autoprocure 1626553;1489423111;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yeah, i'm just giving him a hard time. because for srs! 1626554;1489423129;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: once you have the contents of 'deps' again, i recommend to back it up to another dir, and to burn a cd, those turds ain't ever changing -- there will only get ~fewer~ (when we ditch, e.g., bdb) 1626555;1489423143;mircea_popescu;mod6 that said, /deps/ should prolly be level with seals and patches, not part of /bitcoin/ 1626556;1489423176;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform understant : not everyone treats the boxes like his mother. i am of the people who treat them like his socks. no fucking way am i going to backup this. let the box suck it. 1626557;1489423194;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'lazy man does the work twice' or how did it go 1626558;1489423199;mircea_popescu;mno. 1626559;1489423217;asciilifeform;and you aint backing up 'this box' but the trb deps. that got frozen 4evah. 1626560;1489423222;mircea_popescu;this is not lazy, this is sane. not every slant of roof gets a tower, because things aren't all equal, and something must be the bottom. 1626561;1489423241;mircea_popescu;yes, and they are frozen forever in the place online=1 sucks them from. so this part is correct, and needs no fucking fixing. 1626562;1489423257;mircea_popescu;what needs fixing is a) for srs! and probably also b) /deps/ dun belong that low.l 1626563;1489423277;asciilifeform;anyway it's entirely a timesaving measure, you entirely can load them from somebody else each time, the thing won't proceed unless the hashes match 1626564;1489423337;mircea_popescu;stop squirming and don't make trusting noobs rm-rf-nuke the wrong things! 1626565;1489423351;asciilifeform;format c:^H^H^H^H^lolk 1626566;1489423418;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B92BDB8947B78A414F8FE580BCFBCE7E1171228C1B5DD26AA5E5BD716796AF08 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1431...4833 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.185.87.179 (ssh-rsa key from 210.185.87.179 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (210-185-87-179.intrapower.net.au. AU) 1626567;1489423418;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B92BDB8947B78A414F8FE580BCFBCE7E1171228C1B5DD26AA5E5BD716796AF08 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1618...4153 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.185.87.179 (ssh-rsa key from 210.185.87.179 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (210-185-87-179.intrapower.net.au. AU) 1626568;1489423785;asciilifeform;!~later tell phf i was thinking' of buying that 'ivory' and making a signal interposer . any idea whether the magic cpu was soldered down, or LIF socketed..? 1626569;1489423785;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1626570;1489423821;mircea_popescu;!~later tell mod6 list of items for mod6's convenience : 1) nice job! 2) successive presses overfill .gitignore and possibly other files 3) deps directory should prolly be same level as patches and .seals 1626571;1489423821;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded. 1626572;1489424690;mircea_popescu;ok we're compiled asciilifeform 1626573;1489424702;asciilifeform;yay 1626574;1489424709;asciilifeform;now can proceed to the recipe itself 1626575;1489424753;asciilifeform;(at the risk of pedantry) first put the newly-build 'bitcoind' binary, on the box that will become the first slave. 1626576;1489424775;asciilifeform;(and on any other box that will be a wire slave) 1626577;1489424776;mircea_popescu;uh. 1626578;1489424784;mircea_popescu;i guess this'd be it. i intend to rebuild on all of them. 1626579;1489424804;asciilifeform;then you can. (and for bonus point, compare the binaries, they oughta be exactly same) 1626580;1489424811;mircea_popescu;right. 1626581;1489424816;mircea_popescu;im certainly not shipping binaries about. 1626582;1489424829;*;asciilifeform also likes to keep the whole orchestra on his nodez 1626583;1489424831;mircea_popescu;half the point of the original effort that started this whole thing was to avoid just that bad habit 1626584;1489425059;asciilifeform;there's nothing promisetronic re copying a static bin that you built ~yourself~ to >1 box. (for one thing, it demonstrates that it is genuinely static and will run on heterogeneous boxen.) but you can do it either way. 1626585;1489425136;mircea_popescu;it requires my managing it. 1626586;1489425171;asciilifeform;true, it opens you up to 'hm which one do i have on THIS box' etc. which is why i like to keep the buildtron on each. 1626587;1489425231;mircea_popescu;yes. 1626588;1489425538;asciilifeform;( re the recipe : 'autossh' is a c proggy, from heathendom, i have not audited it. this is one of the reasons for the skull'n'crossbones. there is a similar utility called 'RSTunnel' that consists solely of bash script. but i have not tested it . ) 1626589;1489425565;asciilifeform;you gotta have something that will re-ignite ssh if it drops. 1626590;1489425643;asciilifeform;because ssh is a product of 'satoshis', people who were dropped as children, and cannot be made to self-reignite. 1626591;1489425643;mircea_popescu;ok, so now with the built trb with ssh patch... 1626592;1489425653;asciilifeform;wires patch 1626593;1489425656;asciilifeform;it is not married to ssh 1626594;1489425657;mircea_popescu;right 1626595;1489425659;asciilifeform;but proceed 1626596;1489425694;*;mircea_popescu reviews teh log. 1626597;1489426075;mircea_popescu;recommending ssh-keygen is fucking shameful 1626598;1489426082;mircea_popescu;you know it made me a "key" in <0.1 s ? 1626599;1489426261;ben_vulpes;but the pseudo-useful key generator is /cryptographically secure/ mircea_popescu, i don't know what you're complaining about 1626600;1489426295;mircea_popescu;yeah. also !#s phuctor 1626601;1489426325;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: heh feel free to convert it to openpgp (http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/crap-from-scans-to-be-sorted/ssh-to-pgp.py) and submit to phuctor. 1626602;1489426329;mircea_popescu;"hey, we didn't say it is EXPERIMENTALLY secure now did we! door's that way and don't forget your social security contributions." 1626603;1489426349;Framedragger;i expect most of those broken openssh keys were generated by ssh-keygen 1626604;1489426360;mircea_popescu;me too. 1626605;1489426416;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: with what to generate ~ssh~ key ? 1626606;1489426422;asciilifeform;i dun have an alt-ssh (yes). 1626607;1489426455;Framedragger;yupyup. easy to shame but nothing to replace it with 1626608;1489426503;trinque;your whole planet being poor does not erase the shame of poverty 1626609;1489426546;asciilifeform;trinque: don't put wire-trb on your icbm-controller box. the skull is there for a reason. 1626610;1489426565;mircea_popescu;what can i say. trinque has it. 1626611;1489426627;asciilifeform;if i had a ticket to the mythical planet where programmers aren't retarded and 'the shame of poverty' is not smelled, we would not even be having the trb conversation. 1626612;1489426673;asciilifeform;that being said, you can use 'wire' with anything that can maintain a ciphered tcp pipe between two boxes. dun have to be ssh. 1626613;1489426687;trinque;all servers are toilets; ass needs to be able to lay turds elsewhere at a moment's notice 1626614;1489426970;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HlU5K/?raw=true << key 1626615;1489426982;mircea_popescu;slave supposedly ready to go, what ip do i tell addwire ? 1626616;1489427109;asciilifeform;1s 1626617;1489427163;mircea_popescu;also, architecture-wise : i plan to get my boxes in a ring, and link 1 of you fellows to each. unless objections to the arrangement. 1626618;1489427210;asciilifeform;ok you're in 1626619;1489427214;asciilifeform;and the ip is dulap's 1626620;1489427224;asciilifeform;46.166.165.30 1626621;1489427232;asciilifeform;and the user is 'tunnel' just like in the recipe. 1626622;1489427237;asciilifeform;(everybody gets the same 1) 1626623;1489427290;asciilifeform;and woah, record-breaking liquishit in mempool today 1626624;1489427514;mircea_popescu;hm, i dun think this workt. 1626625;1489427566;asciilifeform;say what it does instead of working 1626626;1489427579;mircea_popescu;a sec 1626627;1489427621;mircea_popescu;tunnel@46.166.165.30 huh 1626628;1489427636;asciilifeform;aha 1626629;1489427718;asciilifeform;btw i assume this is a brand-new box, there is no blockchain on it 1626630;1489427724;asciilifeform;so this'll test the sync-from-0 1626631;1489427736;asciilifeform;(afaik nobody tested this yet) 1626632;1489427752;asciilifeform;^ over wires, that is 1626633;1489427814;mircea_popescu;nah, it's the box that produced that debug log last week 1626634;1489427819;asciilifeform;aite 1626635;1489427927;mircea_popescu;and screen apparently bit it. 1626636;1489427970;mircea_popescu;screen -x results in a hanged terminal, ctrl-c does nothing, supposedlt active terminals won'\t spawn windows etc. box is otherwise fine though. fucking linux,. 1626637;1489428000;asciilifeform;nasty 1626638;1489428102;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/GJjrn/?raw=true in other lelz. 1626639;1489428119;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this is documented 1626640;1489428130;mircea_popescu;anyway, tail -f debug.log shows a lot of activity. 1626641;1489428131;asciilifeform;gotta have the LC_ALL="C" prefix 1626642;1489428138;mircea_popescu;i do. 1626643;1489428143;asciilifeform;when you run bitcoind (both demonized and the commandline rpc) 1626644;1489428144;mircea_popescu;o shit, i didn't put the quotes in. blerg. 1626645;1489428203;mircea_popescu; "blocks" : 419373, "connections" : 4, 1626646;1489428206;mircea_popescu;dja see me asciilifeform ? 1626647;1489428308;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/CZwEB/?raw=true << my side. 1626648;1489428337;asciilifeform;your pipe is dead, looks like 1626649;1489428635;BingoBoingo;In other pipelines, Antpool is declaring their switch to notBitUnlimitedSpamCoin 1626650;1489428665;mircea_popescu;"blocks" : 419374, btw, as predicted. 1626651;1489428870;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1626652;1489428876;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1235.0, vol: 6356.86788291 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1222.781, vol: 7112.75723 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1234.1, vol: 23631.983642 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1149.282246, vol: 6024.23880000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1225.981, vol: 3838.75876789 | Volume-weighted last average: 1220.96420576 1626653;1489429065;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/while-leftists-mourn-preet-legacy-usg-continues-thrashing/ << Qntra - While Leftists Mourn Preet Legacy USG Continues Thrashing 1626654;1489429126;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'disproved' --> 'disapproved' 1626655;1489429145;BingoBoingo;ty fxd 1626656;1489429232;mircea_popescu;lel 1626657;1489429258;mircea_popescu;good point, though. dude got fucked with a raw pinetree. he's 44. his career is finished. he will be washing dishes / bussing tables in a coupla years 1626658;1489429272;mircea_popescu;but i guess he has two weeks of fake news frenzy cca march 2017 to keep him warm for all that. 1626659;1489429304;BingoBoingo;And it's not like he has actual opportunities to make new career in private practice 1626660;1489429322;BingoBoingo;Not with that wholesale attack on "private practice" he did 1626661;1489429341;mircea_popescu;aha. 1626662;1489429390;mircea_popescu;there's a signfiicant difference between "actually has a profession" and "goes around trying to bully people with threats from his underworld connections" 1626663;1489429411;BingoBoingo;And it's not like his "self" is charismatic enough for the community organizing scam either 1626664;1489429435;mircea_popescu;maybe that, but the secret of that is that you'd have to be a stupid as a 20yo "didn't like math" girl to imagine that is something to do. 1626665;1489429449;mircea_popescu;it's about as financially productive as "make money online" 1626666;1489429458;BingoBoingo;Well, it's a chumatron 1626667;1489429496;BingoBoingo;Attach self to mature nonprofit, eat 95% of donations and plant a couple fucking trees 1626668;1489429503;mircea_popescu;busing tables better, but yeah, prolly too good for injun. 1626669;1489429528;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo that's exactly like "get 100k/month in google advertising checks!!!" 1626670;1489429542;mircea_popescu;"there's proof online that it once happened". 1626671;1489430023;BingoBoingo;lol, well doesn't keep new marks from trying 1626672;1489430065;mircea_popescu;anyway, totally on my list of people to visit later and piss on the shoes on. 1626673;1489430069;mircea_popescu;of* 1626674;1489430686;davout;shoe on head first obviously 1626675;1489431142;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in monkeystan, http://archive.is/PQTvW 1626676;1489431167;asciilifeform;'A woman has posted video of herself pointedly questioning White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer while he was out shopping at a local Apple store. ... Chauhan asks Spicer how it feels to work for “a fascist” and “what can you tell me about Russia.” Spicer smiles through the encounter and repeatedly says “thank you” to Chauhan. At one point, he tells her, “such a great country that 1626677;1489431173;asciilifeform;allows you to be here.” Chauhan says in a blog post that Spicer's comment was racially motivated. ' 1626678;1489431290;trinque;microwaves that turn into cameras? hawhawhaw, who let that woman speak on TV? 1626679;1489431302;trinque;(that is the angle the leftists are pushing now, eh?) 1626680;1489431324;asciilifeform;aha, sorta how '9/11 truth' came to ~mandatorily~ include 'martians did it' 1626681;1489431595;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/middlebury-madness-update-leftist-professor-attacked-by-leftist-agitators-hospitalized/ << Qntra - Middlebury Madness Update: Leftist Professor Attacked By Leftist Agitators Hospitalized 1626682;1489435253;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/ceo-marissa-mayer-out-at-yahoo-as-verizon-to-rebrand-the-thing-to-altaba/ << Qntra - CEO Marissa Mayer Out At Yahoo As Verizon To Rebrand The Thing To Altaba 1626683;1489435285;pete_dushenski;altaba ? bizarro mix of alibaba and altavista i guess 1626684;1489435530;BingoBoingo;Well, nostalgia 1626685;1489435610;pete_dushenski;it's the maga fuel so it must be worth something, at least more than spam ads and search rankings 1626686;1489435643;pete_dushenski;or more like ranklings atm 1626687;1489435802;BingoBoingo;!~google "Pence in our time" 1626688;1489435803;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Mike Pence to CPAC: 'This is our time ' - Washington Times: ; Pence takes victory lap at CPAC: 'This is our time ' | TheHill: ; Mike Pence to CPAC: 'This Is Our Time ' - Newsmax.com: (1 more message) 1626689;1489435809;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-02#1610852 << shot this dude (gautier de montmollin) an email last week and actually heard back from him. he said he was flattered at the invite but was under the assumption that 'bitcoin code was already perfect'. now seeing if i can wrangle him into channel for a visit. updates forthcoming. 1626690;1489435809;a111;Logged on 2017-02-02 01:08 asciilifeform: http://unzip-ada.sourceforge.net/za_html/index.htm << astonishingly readable literate-programming d00d. and he has a bunch of these. 1626691;1489435842;pete_dushenski;see u guise, email isn't dead! it was just sleeping. that's not blood coming from its ears and eyes, just catsup 1626692;1489435915;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Quite a few times when you tried to email qntra submissions they were buried in spam que 1626693;1489436019;*;pete_dushenski goes to check his own spam filter for first time in months 1626694;1489436048;pete_dushenski;phew. nothing missed. 1626695;1489436081;pete_dushenski;just a few offerings to buy the domain name 'bitcoinpet.com'! 1626696;1489436117;pete_dushenski;who knew that tailing 'e' would be so confuzing 1626697;1489436453;pete_dushenski;in other boaring news, http://www.reuters.com/video/2017/03/09/fukushima-hit-towns-scramble-to-clear-ou?videoId=371268563 1626698;1489438703;jurov;alert for everyone who avoids derperisms: http://forum.tinycorelinux.net/index.php?topic=20835.0 "Firefox 52.0 Requires Pulseaudio" 1626699;1489439169;BingoBoingo;ty jurov 1626700;1489440456;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6895 1626701;1489440528;pete_dushenski;that reminds me, latest taleb https://medium.com/incerto/the-facts-are-true-the-news-is-fake-5bf98104cea2#.kw8rmx5h7 1626702;1489442070;Framedragger;lol guardian strikes again pete_dushenski "Even then someone at The Guardian tried (unsuccessfully) to tone down my letter by showing that it was some type of *disagreement* with what *I* said, not a correction of their misrepresentation" 1626703;1489442837;Framedragger;hmm. "The period of time that corresponds to the reliance on one-sided accounts such as television and newspapers, which can be controlled by the mandarins, lasted from the middle of the twentieth century until the U.S. elections of 2016. In that sense, social networks, allowing a two-way flow of information, put back the mechanism of tidings in its natural format. As with participants in 1626704;1489442848;Framedragger; markets and souks, there is a long term advantage to being dependable." << if he's saying what i think he's saying (social networks work again!1 people use them to understand things!1) then he's beyond naive, as the modern 'social network' is nothing like that of a bazaar. the former is ~basically facebook which on top of being...facebook, selectively filters and presents "your friends' stories" 1626705;1489442855;Framedragger; that it predicts you will click on. a lot of that reduces to "things i agree with", which is not at all bazaar-like, iiut. unless he meant "people recognising fake news for what it is, and physical word-of-mouth becoming a tool again." the latter does not imply facebook, but still sounds much too naive to my ear, but i dunno. 1626706;1489443050;Framedragger;s/iiut/iiui/ 1626707;1489443115;ben_vulpes;the lifespan and relevancy of facebook or any other webapp pales in comparison to the power of actual social networks 1626708;1489443231;Framedragger;*of course*. i'm not completely certain that he meant the latter (i guess he did?) and if he did, whether what he described is actually the case ("actual social networks are used as source of info again!1" - maybe?) 1626709;1489443271;*;Framedragger not on the right side of the pond to know, i guess 1626710;1489444038;mircea_popescu;Framedragger man is naive enough to be on medium. 1626711;1489444075;Framedragger;yeah, ffs. 1626712;1489444146;pete_dushenski;taleb's old enough that he still clearly maintains much of the 'information superhighway' idealism about the internet 1626713;1489444719;pete_dushenski;anyways Framedragger, i don't read nassim's use of 'social network' to refer to the zuckermovie or anything of the sort. he's naive but not ignorant enough to miss filtering effects. he'd doubtless include irc and pgpgrams in the category of mandarin-disrupting two-way comms. but i agree that his point is obscured by loose language. 1626714;1489444830;pete_dushenski;off to see the wizard. bbl. 1626715;1489444849;Framedragger;yeah, fair enough. 1626716;1489445535;mircea_popescu;ahahaha bitcoin code is perfect ? 1626717;1489445540;mircea_popescu;dude talk about fake notions. 1626718;1489445680;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski seems likely he imagines medium, twitter and the rest of the "im an unemployable but fuckable ditz here's my rider" fare. 1626719;1489446246;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ << Trilema - Fake news are just one tail of the failed female state 1626720;1489455983;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D367732F61B8657E77FC199A9369B2601BBE1B6C5B3265AD15DFF8738E27A0AB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1660...2967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.59.9.162 (ssh-rsa key from 200.59.9.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mail1.imap.com.ar. AR B) 1626721;1489455983;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D367732F61B8657E77FC199A9369B2601BBE1B6C5B3265AD15DFF8738E27A0AB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1443...4379 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.59.9.162 (ssh-rsa key from 200.59.9.162 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mail1.imap.com.ar. AR B) 1626722;1489458188;asciilifeform;!~later tell mircea_popescu check yer pm, i found your eggog. 1626723;1489458189;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1626724;1489461425;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: i'd like to defend him by noting that social network != social media but dude's command of english leaves enough to be desired that this distinction isn't much of a leg to stand on 1626725;1489461516;pete_dushenski;open q : anyone tried this (or other) intel me 'cleaner' ? https://github.com/corna/me_cleaner/wiki/How-does-it-work%3F 1626726;1489461536;pete_dushenski;looking to use it on crapbook so equipped 1626727;1489461551;pete_dushenski;!#s i7 1626728;1489461552;a111;36 results for "i7", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=i7 1626729;1489461615;pete_dushenski;though i'm entirely open to the criticism that it's like sprinkling holy water on a dented can in the hopes that clostridium botulinum feels the wrath of my gods 1626730;1489461727;pete_dushenski;in other holies, eleven! http://archive.is/8eRsf 1626731;1489461772;pete_dushenski;looks like those xmas teas from lt bought some more business for uab cherry servers 1626732;1489462022;asciilifeform;lul cloudflare eggog 1626733;1489462060;pete_dushenski;? 1626734;1489462081;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski's archive.is link 1626735;1489462094;asciilifeform;nao loads 1626736;1489462130;pete_dushenski;aha i jumped it a bit 1626737;1489462187;*;asciilifeform bbl, meat 1626738;1489463102;asciilifeform;https://www.ebay.com/itm/112326565327 << holy fuq phf 1626739;1489463121;asciilifeform;~ $ 7k ! 1626740;1489463748;mod6;oh hey... sorry, just catching up now. was crazy day. 1626741;1489464122;mod6; list of items for mod6's convenience : 1) nice job! 2) successive presses overfil .gitignore and possibly other files 3) deps directory should prolly be same level as patches and .seals<< sorry you encountered some issues on 2nd press. Thanks for your comments. Duly noted. 1626742;1489464145;mod6;Sounds like you got it compiled and working, for this, I'm glad. 1626743;1489464789;mircea_popescu;yah smooth as buttar. 1626744;1489464829;mod6;Nice. I've got mine built too with 'wires'. Just need to get a minute to hook it up to alf's node. 1626745;1489465124;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski i could make that read 5k by pushing a switch. idiots have nfi, counting all the ips you feel like exposing. 1626746;1489465254;mircea_popescu;mod6 consider patching .gitignore out altogether next release, not like it's used 1626747;1489465358;mod6;it's only current use, is that it allows directories not to be removed. 1626748;1489465403;mod6;long ago, we all talked about this. and perhaps it is time to prune these directories. but at the time, it was decided to leave them as-is 1626749;1489465441;mircea_popescu;hm 1626750;1489465455;mircea_popescu;im not current on this. got a link ? 1626751;1489465574;mod6;let me dig it up -- bumeanwhile, it's regarding src/obj, src/obj/nogui, src/obj/test 1626752;1489465581;*;mod6 goes to dig 1626753;1489465847;mod6;Well, there are a bunch of references... 1626754;1489465874;mod6;!#s .gitignore 1626755;1489465874;a111;28 results for ".gitignore", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=.gitignore 1626756;1489465885;mod6;I'll pull some ... 1626757;1489465915;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-24#1284164 1626758;1489465915;a111;Logged on 2015-09-24 00:25 mod6: <+phf> shinohai: you probably have rm_gitignore.patch applied, which removes .gitignore files from src/obj/nogui and nukes the folders along the way? << i said to disregard this patch. reason is, it wipes out output dirs required by the bitcoin makefile. 1626759;1489465955;mod6;(and by bitcoin makefile, this meant 'makefile.unix' in the src directory) 1626760;1489466005;mod6;asked by ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-19#1206699 1626761;1489466005;a111;Logged on 2015-07-19 21:31 ben_vulpes: mod6: re gitkeeps do we even know why those empty dirs are necessary for a succesful compile? 1626762;1489466045;mircea_popescu;oh oh i remember now what this all was. 1626763;1489466048;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-19#1206725 1626764;1489466048;a111;Logged on 2015-07-19 22:04 mod6: <+phf> ben_vulpes: because makefile.unix expects them, (search for obj/nogui/%.o: %.cpp, etc.) << ben_vulpes yeah this stuff 1626765;1489466058;mod6;yup, exactly. 1626766;1489466058;mircea_popescu;makefile bs. alright, well, i guess we'll need a test for file exists or some such hair. 1626767;1489466091;mircea_popescu;i suppose alternatively could just say DO NOT PRESS TWICE! DELETE DIR BETWEEN PRESSES. 1626768;1489466096;mircea_popescu;if you move /deps/ that'll work fine. 1626769;1489466109;mod6;but I think now that we have the outside makefiles integrated and working well, maybe we can prune out those dirs and create them as needed? certainly worth looking into. certainly would be nice to get rid of those things finally 1626770;1489466153;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> i suppose alternatively could just say DO NOT PRESS TWICE! DELETE DIR BETWEEN PRESSES. << agree. there obviously needs to be a check in there - if the press directory already exists, warn the user and stop. 1626771;1489466169;mircea_popescu;something like that yeah. 1626772;1489466188;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> if you move /deps/ that'll work fine. << this part is a bit more tricky. but might be possible. 1626773;1489466190;ben_vulpes;i'd rather it were transparently idempotent. 1626774;1489466237;mircea_popescu;are you playing with your cereal ? 1626775;1489466254;ben_vulpes;sorry. i'd rather it rip out the press target if it existed. 1626776;1489466277;mod6;just automagically blow it away and create a new one? 1626777;1489466287;mircea_popescu;also not a bad way to go about it. 1626778;1489466296;ben_vulpes;seems the cleanest, least error prone thing to do. 1626779;1489466309;ben_vulpes;warning and stopping doesn't really help, as i see it. 1626780;1489466322;mircea_popescu;imagine if pregnancy worked this way. get girl pregnant, fuck her again a month later get her pregnant again, except timer reset. 1626781;1489466323;mod6;blowing away someones dir without notice seems like the wrong approach, no matter how clean it might seem. 1626782;1489466351;mircea_popescu;would give "monastery" a whole new meaning. 1626783;1489466405;ben_vulpes;i ~never touch "pressed" source 1626784;1489466421;ben_vulpes;what would the point be? destroys press integrity. 1626785;1489466434;ben_vulpes;"oh i took this priceless jewel and scribbled my name in it" 1626786;1489466439;mod6;hmm. 1626787;1489466458;mod6;i just wanna be considerate before agreeing to this. i'll think on it. 1626788;1489466462;ben_vulpes;no rush 1626789;1489466944;mircea_popescu;mod6 well you delete his files, but he can regenerate them anyway, is the idea. 1626790;1489467071;mod6;yeah, im maybe considering the bad-form-case where someone modifies the source of a pressed directory, forgets about his changes, comes back 12 years later, then re-presses over said changes, now lost. 1626791;1489467095;mod6;but maybe this is just that, a bad-form-case. do not do this. 1626792;1489467195;mircea_popescu;he wouldn't keep them in any case 1626793;1489467207;mircea_popescu;i mean, wtf would it be, how'd he know what of his changes were kept in the first place 1626794;1489467225;ben_vulpes;"if it's not backed up, it's clearly not important" 1626795;1489467262;mod6;there would be nothing to denote any said changes in a pressed directory. 1626796;1489467299;mod6;ok. im with it. 1626797;1489467393;mod6;this change is pretty trivial. probably will update V99994 before it comes out (was about to release this weekend). will need to add at least an automated test too. not a big deal. 1626798;1489467467;mod6;the harder part is trying to move 'deps' ..//.. 1626799;1489467480;mod6;da faq. '../../..' 1626800;1489467515;mod6;anyway. ya, something to look at. 1626801;1489470882;mod6;interestingly, i just tried moving 'bin', 'deps', and 'build' and all of their makefiles + a few small tweaks up ../../.. and was able to build. 1626802;1489470931;mod6;problem will be with pressing and a vpatch. press wants to put everything underneath of the given press directory. not place contents adjacent to a press directory. 1626803;1489470952;mod6;so that'll be the next thing to take a look at. 1626804;1489471042;mod6;('bin', 'build', 'deps', being adjacent, meaning, along side of 'patches', '.seals', 'v.pl', etc.) 1626805;1489471153;mod6;this would leave, for instance, a 'trb' output press directory along side of the above stated dirs. of which, all that would be contained in there is a bitcoin directory, and the underlying 'src' directory. 1626806;1489471176;trinque;nah makefile can make those dirs if absent 1626807;1489471224;trinque;this is the kind of thing I provided defaults for, like what your copy of your checksum proggie is 1626808;1489471239;trinque;could do the same for deps path, provide some default, and if you want something else: 1626809;1489471248;trinque;make DEPS=/wherever/I/stick/it 1626810;1489471380;mod6;like this: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uuSiv/?raw=true 1626811;1489471448;trinque;whole idea is to get them outside the press, so you don't have to copy them in each time you press 1626812;1489471483;trinque;I tend to have a couple trees pressed right next to each other, when testing a patch, when writing my own 1626813;1489471526;mod6;hmm. 1626814;1489471540;trinque;could just drag deps/Makefile into the root Makefile, and put the dep-files someplace else 1626815;1489471579;mod6;that's fine. could just reference something like: ../../../deps/*.asc or something 1626816;1489471606;mod6;but having it set up as i just did in the above paste is unpressable in current vtronics. 1626817;1489471634;mod6;so yeah, something other than what I did is preferred (at least to me). 1626818;1489471654;trinque;makefile would make the dir, maybe ~/trb-deps as default, or w/e 1626819;1489471675;trinque;then they can sit there for the rest of your life and that's that 1626820;1489471765;mod6;so either user creates ~/trb-deps and then pulls all .asc's from deedbot manually in offline mode. or makefile creates ~/trb-deps and pulls .asc files in `make ONLINE=1` mode and dumps files in there. 1626821;1489471778;trinque;sounds pretty sane to me 1626822;1489471825;mod6;ok. i think we've got something we can work with. :] 1626823;1489476541;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-03#1621508 << http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/457168#5d92aca92ced62e03899d87d78da10634bcdec1702ed3e2d3d084c083730bf9b 1626824;1489476541;a111;Logged on 2017-03-03 17:25 asciilifeform: ( https://blockchain.info/tx/5da9e054f81716ff54fefa10fae3c025685faf5170d1b270b3384a3406d781e0 << typical example of tx spamola, in recent few blox. and yes i'd rather link to mimisbrunnr but it does not seem to have linkable tx knob presently. ) 1626825;1489476648;ben_vulpes;actual tx in question: http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/455604#5da9e054f81716ff54fefa10fae3c025685faf5170d1b270b3384a3406d781e0 1626826;1489476976;davout;asciilifeform: what's your rigorous criterion for spamolitude? 1626827;1489492032;mircea_popescu;mod6 no, JUST /deps/ 1626828;1489492271;mircea_popescu;and in other news, anyone with a background in sales who's damned good at it want a job ? 1626829;1489492287;mircea_popescu;b2b, not consumer. 1626830;1489492826;asciilifeform;in other lulz, guess wat mircea_popescu , meet usg's vapourware uci ! : https://golem.network 1626831;1489492837;asciilifeform;didjaknow. 1626832;1489492898;mircea_popescu;eh, im sure there's 500 1626833;1489493563;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, panzers! ben_vulpes , trinque : trb node at dulap will be unavailable for next ~hour . 1626834;1489497536;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG, panzers! ben_vulpes , trinque : dulap is back. 1626835;1489497622;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-almost-created-a-constellation-of-bitcoin-nodes/ << Trilema - How I almost created a constellation of Bitcoin nodes 1626836;1489499172;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: 8th item empty ^ 1626837;1489499633;mircea_popescu;heh
  • rather than
    • 1626838;1489499634;mircea_popescu;fixt thanks 1626839;1489499742;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5430D04B21F3EE28C51D7E1867FF1BCCBE4E8BF96D45617959BA1E68E225521B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 43 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '67.49.219.148 (ssh-rsa key from 67.49.219.148 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (cpe-67-49-219-148.socal.res.rr.com. US) 1626840;1489499894;asciilifeform;^lel 1626841;1489499901;asciilifeform;not so many of these. 1626842;1489500463;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: re. blackholing and to be alf-pessimistic for a second, node is exposed to risk of being blackholed as long as it uses TCP; because not only can enemy make it read packets (unavoidable in the end it seems), but there may be ways to making it send packets back. 1626843;1489500481;Framedragger;of making* 1626844;1489500565;Framedragger;(i guess "silently drop connections" (TCP DROP) from any non-whitelisted IP is one way around it, sorta.) 1626845;1489501005;Framedragger;(this is just to juxtapose topics of trb and gossipd for a second and to maybe show why some folks really like the lighthouse idea) :) 1626846;1489501887;asciilifeform;Framedragger: the problem with tcp isn't simply that enemy can insert an RST packet and make you blame your peer. (and whitelists do 0 against this.) but that it is very expensive , computationally, long before you have any idea who you're talking to. 1626847;1489501899;asciilifeform;( you gotta reserve memory, for state, and cpu cycles to handle the socket ) 1626848;1489501953;Framedragger;asciilifeform: hm, sure. (and i forgot about arbitrary RSTs by anyone in the path which destroy the session, heh.) do you know how the resource allocation compares to udp in a typical (say, linux kernel) networking stack? 1626849;1489501967;Framedragger;i'm sure it's less than that especially as you don't need to save state/session info 1626850;1489501971;asciilifeform;udp is stateless 1626851;1489501983;Framedragger;yes that i know, but you still gotta reserve things to parse things... 1626852;1489502003;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> mod6 no, JUST /deps/ << ok. 1626853;1489502020;asciilifeform;Framedragger: on just about any reasonable unixlike, you can receive udp at the rate your nic can dish'em out 1626854;1489502046;asciilifeform;nothing is reserved per-packet other than the buffer where you put it (which is normally the same buffer for each incoming packet) 1626855;1489502054;Framedragger;aha. it's funny this little difference is 'forgotten' in most tutorials etc. heh. 1626856;1489502157;asciilifeform;ideally i wouldn't use udp per se, but udp-with-altered-protocol-number, per mircea_popescu's ancient idea 1626857;1489502175;asciilifeform;so as to be able to make a box that silently drops garden-variety udp spamola, if any comes 1626858;1489502196;asciilifeform;( but to make alt-udp you gotta patch the kernel. ) 1626859;1489502484;Framedragger;asciilifeform: can you not use raw sockets (with some kind of linux cap to allow program to open them without root), defining udp-like struct within? (i'm sure performance tuning may not be easy, i mean to achieve same level of optimisation as in kernel stack) 1626860;1489502509;asciilifeform;Framedragger: this is the raw device thread again, isnnit. 1626861;1489502529;asciilifeform;no i don't want to throw away what little separation linux provides. 1626862;1489502545;asciilifeform;if i did, i'd stuff whole thing into the kernel. 1626863;1489502560;asciilifeform;( and skip the cost of the cpu ring switching ) 1626864;1489502578;Framedragger;fair enough. 1626865;1489502603;Framedragger;also, ip packets with custom proto number would (1) stand out more easily to enemy, and could be more easily filtered out (vs. udp header with rng-data within) - see how chinese firewall blocked tor bridges etc etc; and (2) i'm sure quite a few appliances would filter them out by default (like how they filter out icmp, etc.) 1626866;1489502639;asciilifeform;Framedragger: remember, we aren't usg, don't have to STANDARDIZE FOR ALL TIME!!!111 1626867;1489502654;asciilifeform;folx can use whatever protocol number they want, so long as other end knows it. 1626868;1489502659;Framedragger;suresure, so maybe can choose to fuck (2). 1626869;1489502671;Framedragger;ah, you mean in that sense - sure. 1626870;1489502680;asciilifeform;if masquerading as, e.g., dns crapola, becomes important, then can set udp's 1626871;1489502693;asciilifeform;if rejecting udp spamola -- then != udp's. etc 1626872;1489502696;Framedragger;yeah. fixed 512 byte packet length udp, etc. 1626873;1489502711;asciilifeform;the important thing is to throw tcp straight into the shitcan where it belongs. 1626874;1489502726;Framedragger;(one day i'll dup up logs why tae fuck mircea_popescu allegedly filters out udp by default) 1626875;1489502730;Framedragger;yeah. 1626876;1489502741;asciilifeform;Framedragger: iirc he gets multimegatonne udp-amplified spamolade regularly. 1626877;1489502742;Framedragger;dig up* 1626878;1489502749;Framedragger;hah. 1626879;1489502754;asciilifeform;(from pwned konsoomer routers and such, organized into chumpnets) 1626880;1489502794;Framedragger;how do you amplify udp? i guess application-layer-specific stuff like bittorrent's uTP (which has some amplification vuln shit iirc), etc.; also, dns 1626881;1489502840;asciilifeform;Framedragger: 'amplified udp' refers to egregiously idiotic konsoomer appliances that send N udp packets 'back in reply' in response to 1 incoming. which of course has forged return addr. 1626882;1489502847;asciilifeform;(i.e. victim's) 1626883;1489502850;Framedragger;(for logs, http://engineering.bittorrent.com/2015/08/27/drdos-udp-based-protocols-and-bittorrent/) 1626884;1489502873;Framedragger;lol, internet of amazing. 1626885;1489502880;asciilifeform;Framedragger: it would not exist if it were not for silently complicit isps that route forged packets 1626886;1489502915;Framedragger;asciilifeform: forged as in e.g. where source ip addr != actual source? 1626887;1489502933;asciilifeform;well unless you are a telepath, you don't know 'actual source' 1626888;1489502952;Framedragger;well if you're the first hop.. 1626889;1489502952;asciilifeform;BUT you in many cases ~do~ know that a given packet could not have originated from the supposed return addr. 1626890;1489502955;asciilifeform;aha. 1626891;1489502959;asciilifeform;or, often, second, etc. 1626892;1489502973;Framedragger;ah right, that, too. 1626893;1489502979;asciilifeform;folx who route it anyway -- are complicit in ddosism. 1626894;1489502980;Framedragger;yeah, good stuff, thanks ISPs 1626895;1489502984;asciilifeform;i suspect -- deliberately. 1626896;1489503198;asciilifeform;Framedragger: in the old #bitcoin-assets days, there was a bot, that idled under (afaik still unknown) names, and would target ddostron (used vulnerable konsoomer router 'upnp' for udp amplification) at anyone who logged in without using fleanode's 'cloak' feature (i.e. had visible ip). 1626897;1489503252;asciilifeform;this went on for, iirc, a year or so, then got tired. 1626898;1489503556;Framedragger;aha, good stuff, i guess the point is that this kind of ddos is *easy*. 1626899;1489503608;asciilifeform;Framedragger: ddos as a concept relies on something having a 'the ip' 1626900;1489503641;asciilifeform;if instead your box is an octopus of ip, and none of the clients have any business knowing ~all~ of the tentacles, the concept dissolves. 1626901;1489503702;asciilifeform;( it is, for instance, impractical to ddos -- at least in the usual packet flood sense - 1,000 machines. or it would be the preferred form of attack against bitcoin, which it is not ) 1626902;1489503725;Framedragger;heh that's why for logging i proposed http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/irc_logging.txt which includes some 'hidden' nodes. but, fleanode and irc are leaky and the whole 'cloaking' thing is snakeoil. 1626903;1489503763;Framedragger;asciilifeform: btw regarding bitcoin, sure re. 1000 machines but if/when there's only 15 or however many trb nodes.... 1626904;1489503804;asciilifeform;at any given time, a few of these are ddosed. 1626905;1489503808;asciilifeform;but, notice, never all. 1626906;1489503845;Framedragger;i think it makes sense, thinking of the future, to eventually move to a model where there is no 'public trb node ip list'. 1626907;1489503853;Framedragger;(i'm sure not an original idea at all) 1626908;1489503887;asciilifeform;Framedragger: 'not having a list' is not a pill against enumeration, considering how bitcoin is fundamentally a 'promiscuous' syphilitic whore protocol 1626909;1489503904;asciilifeform;for so long as the nodes actually 'serve all-comers', they can be enumerated. 1626910;1489503942;asciilifeform;(and on the edges of the graph, you're stuck talking to heathens unless mining were somehow brought into the fold) 1626911;1489503974;Framedragger;..which means that the latter should be dropped eventually, i guess (but then cue my question 'why not just work on trb-i if no compatibility with heathen prb network') 1626912;1489503981;Framedragger;right, right. 1626913;1489503987;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1619996 see thread. ) 1626914;1489503987;a111;Logged on 2017-02-28 13:38 asciilifeform: to wind it up, the casks algo is asciilifeform's attempt at the 'high vacuum pump' from earlier -- to get the max possible removal of something-to-allcomers element , to the extent possible without running an entirely closed wotronic system (and consequently turning into visa or swift) 1626915;1489504098;asciilifeform;Framedragger: at the risk of repeating old thread : there is no way to 'replace bitcoin with trbi'. it isn't a thing that can be done. 1626916;1489504117;Framedragger;i won't insist - you're right, we've already just had that chat on #b-a 1626917;1489504119;asciilifeform;( what ~can~ be done is to build a thing that could function in place of a dead bitcoin. ) 1626918;1489504122;Framedragger;sorry for making you repeat things. 1626919;1489504125;asciilifeform;but it ain't dead. not yet. 1626920;1489504141;Framedragger;right. 1626921;1489504305;asciilifeform;and 'dead bitcoin', esp. if it dies on enemy's terms, would imho be a technogenic catastrophe, quite comparable to, e.g., chernobyl. ( not for mircea_popescu 'i'm rich anyway, fuck everyone' , and not for other folx, who might not even have any; but for the concept of 'gold sans the guard labour') 1626922;1489504478;asciilifeform;it could quite easily go to where the lisp machine went. 1626923;1489504551;asciilifeform;folx with ~actual~ wealth (vs, say, usg payola, a la sv derps) tend to be ~very~ risk-averse when it comes to storage. 1626924;1489504561;asciilifeform;hence why we have 1 mircea_popescu , and not 2 or 3. 1626925;1489504579;Framedragger;you mean it would set a very bad precedent? 1626926;1489504586;Framedragger;'cause comparing to chernobyl... 1626927;1489504592;Framedragger;i can see re. precedent tho. 1626928;1489504631;asciilifeform;Framedragger: every popped reactor emboldens several ~generations~ of idiots who LET'S BURN COW SHIT! ANYTHING BUT fission! 1626929;1489504665;asciilifeform;the damage is not in the mutated frogs, or the two dozen dead firemen, no. 1626930;1489504676;asciilifeform;it is in the empowered whinerism. 1626931;1489504677;Framedragger;yeah, i understand. 1626932;1489504697;Framedragger;then again, it'd be a more powerful filter to deter stupid people. 1626933;1489504730;asciilifeform;imho entire point of items such as bitcoin is as 'antibiotic' against massed stupidity. 1626934;1489504757;asciilifeform;'ourdemocracy' 1626935;1489504764;asciilifeform;( per mircea_popescu's piece ) 1626936;1489505152;asciilifeform;i suspect that 'greybeard' holdouts, taleb et al, who 'bitcoin is a fad, will go into the sands of time, snoar' are on a sound logical footing, 'every OTHER attempt to combat massed stupidity has ultimately fallen, nuked by OurDemocracy, and the more brazen the assault, the quicker' 1626937;1489505709;asciilifeform;this imho is why there is moar at stake than only a mechanized hawalatron. 1626938;1489506640;Framedragger;tbh that log snippet in that post (http://trilema.com/2017/how-i-almost-created-a-constellation-of-bitcoin-nodes/), "evidently new ssh is needed altogether" reads a bit like "oh i need to generate ssh key for this to work? well fuck ssh, obvs it's a pos." 1626939;1489506658;asciilifeform;Framedragger: nothing to do with keys 1626940;1489506681;asciilifeform;Framedragger: his ssh client mysteriously barfs when connecting to my sshd. (though nominally same versions..) 1626941;1489506699;Framedragger;just run it with -v for verbose output, meh. 1626942;1489506702;asciilifeform;and all permissions set correctly, key sitting right next to the others (that work), etc. 1626943;1489506705;asciilifeform;Framedragger: we did. 1626944;1489506708;Framedragger;ah ok. 1626945;1489506750;asciilifeform;dies with debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_NEWKEYS 1626946;1489506750;asciilifeform; Connection closed by < mircea_popescu's ip > 1626947;1489506782;asciilifeform;searching for this, yielded up megatonne of voodoo 'trythis!' idiocy 1626948;1489506788;asciilifeform;'reduce the mtu on your nic!' 1626949;1489506793;asciilifeform;'no, increase the mtu!' 1626950;1489506795;asciilifeform;etc. 1626951;1489507123;Framedragger;some suggest to try with stock openssh server, to see if same happens. anyway, curious if sshd_config on your end has custom knobs (e.g. prefers one crypto format over another), but i guess the whole thing's a timesink 1626952;1489507179;asciilifeform;Framedragger: holy fuck are you reading stackoverflow idiocies verbatim ?! 1626953;1489507186;asciilifeform;this ~was~ a stock openssh 1626954;1489507199;Framedragger;oh, did mp's client connect to server before, without autossh etc? need to confirm fingerprint 1626955;1489507210;Framedragger;no, not stackoverflow, an ML 1626956;1489507221;asciilifeform;same crapola, repasted 10,000 times on www 1626957;1489507227;asciilifeform;where some d00d has custom openssh 1626958;1489507232;asciilifeform;0 relevance. 1626959;1489507240;asciilifeform;and no, no connection, it dies in the manner described 1626960;1489507252;asciilifeform;(and pointedly NOT described anywhere else) 1626961;1489507276;Framedragger;okay then. :( 1626962;1489507334;Framedragger;(i wonder if he tried just-ssh'ing, no autossh first. because he needs to answer "yes" to "trust this fingerprint?" prompt first, it seems. just that.) 1626963;1489507339;asciilifeform;yeS!!! 1626964;1489507342;Framedragger;ok, ok. 1626965;1489507371;Framedragger;then i retract my previous snappy remark. ssh lol. 1626966;1489507432;asciilifeform;interestingly, when he did interactive ssh minus the tunnel, he did get the 'OK' prompt 1626967;1489507440;asciilifeform;but with tunnel -- this. 1626968;1489509674;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D18213E74FBE771FDB7F8529CC00E30724669C3A6D9E66E5FED429E7F92EFD93 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1450...5997 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.23.121.98 (ssh-rsa key from 80.23.121.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (host98-121-static.23-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT) 1626969;1489509674;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D18213E74FBE771FDB7F8529CC00E30724669C3A6D9E66E5FED429E7F92EFD93 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1496...4063 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.23.121.98 (ssh-rsa key from 80.23.121.98 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (host98-121-static.23-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT) 1626970;1489511224;ben_vulpes;i figured the boats were under constant optical satellite tracking, perhaps these schmucks weren't paying for it? http://gcaptain.com/bunker-tanker-hijacked-off-somalia/ 1626971;1489511444;asciilifeform;perhaps they forgot to pay for the coordinates-not-relayed-to-pirates-in-realtime service. 1626972;1489511559;ben_vulpes;forwarding is swiss cheese, i don't even think that's for sale 1626973;1489511582;mircea_popescu;o hi logs 1626974;1489511611;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu 1626975;1489511810;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626842 << of course there is. deny from all allow from this list. 1626976;1489511810;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 14:07 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: re. blackholing and to be alf-pessimistic for a second, node is exposed to risk of being blackholed as long as it uses TCP; because not only can enemy make it read packets (unavoidable in the end it seems), but there may be ways to making it send packets back. 1626977;1489511878;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626858 << we already gotta patch the kernel to FUCKGOATS. 1626978;1489511878;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 14:36 asciilifeform: ( but to make alt-udp you gotta patch the kernel. ) 1626979;1489511880;Framedragger;luckily there's no conceivable way to forge "source ip" field in headers :p 1626980;1489511905;mircea_popescu;sure there is. but, not for garden variety gnome, not for free, etc. 1626981;1489511936;asciilifeform;attempts to secure tcp are duct tape. 1626982;1489511945;mircea_popescu;it is a tempting naivism to imagine the empire as a sort of frictionless monster, in which every limb gets full and impeded access to any tool it needs whenever it needs it. this however is not how any empire works irl. 1626983;1489511971;mircea_popescu;irl, the relative gain from "lording it over" the "lower" limbs that need tools to do their job is often more significant than the gain to the decident of the actual correct usage. 1626984;1489511993;mircea_popescu;this is periodically discussed in the logs, but i suppose pretty out there to grok. 1626985;1489512024;mircea_popescu;average gauleiter actually gains more from secretaries NOT HAVING ink ribbons so they can't do their job than from their HAVING ink ribbons and doing their job. 1626986;1489512040;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu tends to approach from the (very practical) angle of 'cutting heads here and now', asciilifeform tends to approach from angle of 'how to permanently salt the slug' 1626987;1489512043;mircea_popescu;because every empire ever is backed by the trade in flesh, and well... the former pays in flesh. the latter - in scrip. 1626988;1489512071;mircea_popescu;yes, but then asciilifeform gets pissed off that the heads aren't cut :D 1626989;1489512083;asciilifeform;and mircea_popescu -- that the slug reinflates !11 1626990;1489512112;Framedragger;"you using ssh-keygen, are you out of your mind!1" 1626991;1489512112;asciilifeform;imho both are 'part of balanced diet' 1626992;1489512116;Framedragger;(granted, ssh-keygen is a pos.) 1626993;1489512123;Framedragger;pretty healthy dynamic i suppose 1626994;1489512354;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626897 << while kid in question was in school or w/e. 1626995;1489512354;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 14:54 asciilifeform: this went on for, iirc, a year or so, then got tired. 1626996;1489512368;mircea_popescu;it's a not terrible "garage chemistry lab" project, costs maybe fiddy bux a month or such\ 1626997;1489512388;asciilifeform;costs 0 if you already-have-with-what. 1626998;1489512431;mircea_popescu;if you already have with what it is prohibitebly expensive, because of opportunity costs 1626999;1489512446;mircea_popescu;wich is why rayon plant isn't engaged in the practice of "see kids, organic chemistry!" experiments 1627000;1489512463;asciilifeform;there is space in botnetdom between 'garage' and 'rayon plant'. 1627001;1489512488;mircea_popescu;sort-of how the bare-under-raincoat sexual behaviour is not common in men who get sucked off whenever they feel like. 1627002;1489512511;asciilifeform;this,yes 1627003;1489512550;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626917 << just about. 1627004;1489512550;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 15:08 asciilifeform: ( what ~can~ be done is to build a thing that could function in place of a dead bitcoin. ) 1627005;1489512564;mircea_popescu;and the idea is to have it more or less ready before the prototype actually dies. 1627006;1489512613;mircea_popescu;which, considering the sad confluence of not dumb people who (self servingly, and shamelessly), "think" bitcoin code is perfect (hey, alpha dun wanna be bothered, yes ?) and imbeciles who "are being like suparheoes power rangers"... is a virtual certainty. 1627007;1489512815;asciilifeform;and the number of weaknesses carried over from bitcoin oughta be zero. 1627008;1489512842;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626921 << yes. there's absolutely no argument that bitcoin dying on the enemy's terms would be an unmitigated catastrophe. chernobyl pales in comparison, it'd be on the level of "wheel is useless anyway" wisdom of dropped-on-head amerindians, or "oh pretty, spinning wheels" greek steam engine. utterly catastrophic. which is why eg http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/#selection 1627009;1489512842;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 15:11 asciilifeform: and 'dead bitcoin', esp. if it dies on enemy's terms, would imho be a technogenic catastrophe, quite comparable to, e.g., chernobyl. ( not for mircea_popescu 'i'm rich anyway, fuck everyone' , and not for other folx, who might not even have any; but for the concept of 'gold sans the guard labour') 1627010;1489512842;mircea_popescu;-293.0-292.1 ie, mp "who is not truly a billionaire because reasons" is more than willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of the coins. 1627011;1489512879;asciilifeform;noshit.jpg. did anybody think that mircea_popescu did it to scratch an itching toe ? 1627012;1489512895;asciilifeform;and yes it'll be exactly like heron's steam turbine. 1627013;1489512908;mircea_popescu;i have nfi what people think, but from eg mpoe-pr's experience, it'll be something shockingly stupid and in all the joins nonsequiturial. 1627014;1489512941;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4F2FAFEF6AC083AB068672CB38503FCAE11F169E44DE76AD841B52979BBCA0F9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1553...9793 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.184.117.147 (ssh-rsa key from 195.184.117.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mail81.trifork.com. DK) 1627015;1489512941;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4F2FAFEF6AC083AB068672CB38503FCAE11F169E44DE76AD841B52979BBCA0F9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1712...8737 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.184.117.147 (ssh-rsa key from 195.184.117.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mail81.trifork.com. DK) 1627016;1489512980;asciilifeform;'Trifork is a leading full service supplier of high-quality custom-built applications and end-to-end solutions. ... We aim to empower our customers...' << lol!! 1627017;1489512981;mircea_popescu;anyway, and hence http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/ and all the other countless mallets to the head of the agents of usgistan. 1627018;1489512993;Framedragger;...and all this is exposed to ecdsa and the particular parameters (secp256k1) not breaking... ouch. 1627019;1489513003;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i wonder why they even bother spelling that shit out by now, truly should just have pictorgraphs. 1627020;1489513014;asciilifeform;it'll come. 1627021;1489513018;mircea_popescu;Framedragger a little more layered a pancake, but anyway. 1627022;1489513033;asciilifeform;( as forecast by, e.g., sf writer neal stephenson, imbecilistan will devolve into pictographics ) 1627023;1489513050;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you know ? " We aim to empower our customers" = hun go wun bo = # ; "is a leading full service supplier of high-quality" = bing ding shing ling = @ 1627024;1489513054;mircea_popescu;trifork #@! 1627025;1489513173;mircea_popescu;and in other hieroglyph lulz, me at travel agent, buying tickets. calls girl, "send so and so email a picture". beet red travel agent. "you know... i needed a copy of the passport". "what did you get ?" > nudegirl.jpg 1627026;1489513205;mircea_popescu;the stroke went the wrong way! 1627027;1489513311;asciilifeform;reminds me of a folk story from late '50s. shah of iran and his wife went to visit su. she, of course, takes entire household!111 literally, furniture and all, in classic eastern tradition; 1627028;1489513330;asciilifeform;then it turns out , little problem : not all of the gurlz in said household, have passports 1627029;1489513337;asciilifeform;she : 'whaddayamean, passports, they are my slaves' 1627030;1489513347;asciilifeform;'you would not give passports to a furniture?' 1627031;1489513353;mircea_popescu;sounds about right. 1627032;1489513370;asciilifeform;eventually reached gromyko, who grumbled (su was signatory to 'anti-slavery convention') but managed to hush it up 1627033;1489513375;asciilifeform;let the 'furnitures' in, out. 1627034;1489513399;mircea_popescu;poor gromyko. he's like in half the jokes isn't he. 1627035;1489513405;asciilifeform;no less. 1627036;1489513416;mircea_popescu;(not inept soviet foreign minister, for the innocent) 1627037;1489513672;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626924 << i've been on a long term quest to find young men who are rich and not mentally retarded. it's pretty slow going. 1627038;1489513672;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 15:16 asciilifeform: hence why we have 1 mircea_popescu , and not 2 or 3. 1627039;1489513738;asciilifeform;!#seen mthreat 1627040;1489513738;a111;2017-02-17 people who don't shower in jail/prison are called 'vikings', or another name in Spanish which I forget. There is peer pressure to not stink in there. 1627041;1489513827;mircea_popescu;amusingly, in an earlier, simpler time of "men inhabit bare stone dugouts together", the ability to not stink without washing was regarded as about half of what made monk a candiate for sainthood. 1627042;1489513872;mircea_popescu;to this day "pleasantly scented remains" is on the orthodox list of santly merits. 1627043;1489513915;asciilifeform;aha, and 'diy' self-mummificatory diet!111 1627044;1489513940;asciilifeform;( more of, iirc, a hindu phenomenon than a christian one, but existed ) 1627045;1489513947;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626930 << it bears repeating that whinerism exists to be empowered only in those already fallen shitholes that do not http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/#selection-189.38-193.69 1627046;1489513947;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 15:17 asciilifeform: it is in the empowered whinerism. 1627047;1489513950;davout;"être en odeur de sainteté" 1627048;1489513968;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yep, afaik actually imported from india via persia and the lebanese/syrian/etc early christianhood. 1627049;1489513969;davout;asciilifeform: .jp thing i reckon 1627050;1489513982;mircea_popescu;davout yep exactly. 1627051;1489514014;davout;asciilifeform: Sokushinbutsu according to pedopedia 1627052;1489514043;mircea_popescu;11th century is very late 1627053;1489514060;mircea_popescu;these discussions predate stilpniks, we're talking 4-3 bce 1627054;1489514148;mircea_popescu;i suppose it's stylite in english ? 1627055;1489514216;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: afaik there has not yet been birthed a civilization that has both reactors AND curbstomp-all-whiners. it is a theoretical possibility, like bricks of antimatter. 1627056;1489514239;mircea_popescu;gotta have an utopia. 1627057;1489514263;mircea_popescu;this one's way the fuck more appealing to my taste than "and everyone will be nice to everyone and there will be no poverty or suffering" 1627058;1489514332;asciilifeform;more or less what limonov wrote about while sitting in prison 1627059;1489514338;asciilifeform;'can haz reactor + balls ?' 1627060;1489514679;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626936 << this may be expedient, but it is not logical footing whatsoever. 1627061;1489514679;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 15:25 asciilifeform: i suspect that 'greybeard' holdouts, taleb et al, who 'bitcoin is a fad, will go into the sands of time, snoar' are on a sound logical footing, 'every OTHER attempt to combat massed stupidity has ultimately fallen, nuked by OurDemocracy, and the more brazen the assault, the quicker' 1627062;1489514755;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626939 << you don't see anything suspicious about machine coming up with two 60 digit long primes within subsecond times, Framedragger ? 1627063;1489514755;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 15:50 asciilifeform: Framedragger: nothing to do with keys 1627064;1489514811;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626949 << mtu is epically irrelevant, seeing how the ping is 50ms in this particular configuration. 1627065;1489514811;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 15:53 asciilifeform: 'no, increase the mtu!' 1627066;1489514849;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: i do. the inconsistency that my (naive) mind spots is the "eh empire is not powerful anyway" + "there is no current alternative for X than Y" in conjunction with "how dare you use Y!!!" 1627067;1489514851;*;Framedragger bbl 1627068;1489514930;mircea_popescu;two men land on deserted island, let's call them mrame pragger and fircea dopescu. they observe that a) monkeys are powerless b) there are no proper latrines and c) how dare you shit out in the open you stinked up the whole island. problem ? 1627069;1489514973;mircea_popescu;the ~only~ think these two fellows, mrame and fircea, ARE NOT going to engage in is any sort or kind of ancestor worship. 1627070;1489514977;mircea_popescu;because guess what ? 1627071;1489514981;mircea_popescu;NO FUCKING ANCESTORS, THAT'S WHAT. 1627072;1489515724;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626970 << what is the tracking going to do ? suppose gf is under constant pinterst tracking. one day http://68.media.tumblr.com/925b61fbfa3cd5898068e2ba829ebd86/tumblr_n1ml06EKTm1sonex9o1_1280.jpg 1627073;1489515724;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 17:07 ben_vulpes: i figured the boats were under constant optical satellite tracking, perhaps these schmucks weren't paying for it? http://gcaptain.com/bunker-tanker-hijacked-off-somalia/ 1627074;1489515725;mircea_popescu;nao what. 1627075;1489515795;asciilifeform;send the detonation code ? 1627076;1489515803;mircea_popescu;lol right. 1627077;1489515813;mircea_popescu;leaving aside how that's uninsurable -- it's not even legal. 1627078;1489515837;mircea_popescu;(and if you're going to run an illegal boat ... in what sense was it hijacked by pirates. already was pirate yes ?) 1627079;1489515850;asciilifeform;killing pirates is quite kosher per 'law of the sea' last i knew 1627080;1489515874;mircea_popescu;having a boat that can self-destruct is not. 1627081;1489515890;asciilifeform;100% of ships have kingstons. 1627082;1489515947;mircea_popescu;ssd cards ?! 1627083;1489515959;asciilifeform;no, the other kingstons 1627084;1489515964;asciilifeform;sea valve. 1627085;1489515965;mircea_popescu;what's the valve gonna do. 1627086;1489515971;asciilifeform;well, it's a 'self destruct' 1627087;1489515986;asciilifeform;just -- to the grief of many kriegsmarine folk -- slow 1627088;1489515986;mircea_popescu;i guess... 1627089;1489516000;asciilifeform;u.s. navy carries, iirc, scuttling charges, at least since pueblo incident 1627090;1489516005;asciilifeform;(and probably before) 1627091;1489516012;asciilifeform;it isn't a new idea by any means. 1627092;1489516035;mircea_popescu;well if you're using a us navy ship you're definitely a pirate. 1627093;1489516044;asciilifeform;anybody not a pirate ? 1627094;1489516044;mircea_popescu;kinda what piracy was all about, get a man o war. 1627095;1489516054;mircea_popescu;presumably tyhe people who lost the tanker. 1627096;1489516158;mircea_popescu;incidentally, i wonder how many people took a ho over to graf zepellin and fucked her there, during the 30s. 1627097;1489516208;mircea_popescu;(taking schoolgirl to abandoned / out of service train and fucking her is, i expect, kindergarten-universal yes.) 1627098;1489516211;asciilifeform;iirc this was standard, and on hindenburg also, each held about 20 mircea_popescus in comfortable little rooms 1627099;1489516227;mircea_popescu;so 100s ? 1627100;1489516231;asciilifeform;about. 1627101;1489516249;mircea_popescu;sag mir wo die Dicken sind!!1 1627102;1489516559;*;davout would love to visit asciilifeform and mircea_popescu's kindergartens 1627103;1489516579;mircea_popescu;hm 1627104;1489516612;mircea_popescu;o, right, there's no trains where you live. well... it's basically a tin can on wheels. 1627105;1489516710;asciilifeform;graf zepellin was a train on mircea_popescu's home planet ?! 1627106;1489516731;mircea_popescu;nah, just some perma-moored german ship. wanna-be carrier or such. 1627107;1489516738;mircea_popescu;why, did i imply it was a train ? 1627108;1489516803;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1627069 << i see your (nicely illustrated, heh) point, mk. ridoinculous has to be called if it's ridoinculous, sure 1627109;1489516803;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 18:09 mircea_popescu: the ~only~ think these two fellows, mrame and fircea, ARE NOT going to engage in is any sort or kind of ancestor worship. 1627110;1489516837;Framedragger;called out* 1627111;1489516849;mircea_popescu;you'd be surprised how often the defense is "oh, nobody TOLD ME" when cornered. 1627112;1489516892;mircea_popescu;(this, fwiw, carries 0 water in mp's own dungeon. girl that had no way to know hangs just along well warned one. it IS a little chilling but what can you do.) 1627113;1489517103;*;BingoBoingo still continuing full sync experiment, less than 35 kiloblocks to go. Prolly should have sprung for an SSD. 1627114;1489517439;davout;BingoBoingo: welcome to the club 1627115;1489517452;davout;I'm syncing since last december 1627116;1489517468;davout;I should be current in a few hours \o/ 1627117;1489517509;BingoBoingo;Well node's in August 2016, so made it past the mp-constipator block 1627118;1489518403;mircea_popescu;nice going 1627119;1489519046;BingoBoingo;Still has required a few resets to overcome crapolade blackholes, but far less common after passing block 400,000 compared to 250,000 -350,000 where PRB unordered shit spewing of blocks complicates things 1627120;1489519064;BingoBoingo;A least I suspect, 1627121;1489519090;BingoBoingo;no real srs diagnostics done. simply restarted bitcoind on freezes 1627122;1489519230;mircea_popescu;you know, i've been meditating on http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-22#887519 http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-20#1586656 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-22#1616771 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623920 semanticolade. 1627123;1489519230;a111;Logged on 2014-10-22 04:34 asciilifeform: but all the semantics of original must be preserved, to begin. 1627124;1489519230;a111;Logged on 2016-12-20 19:16 asciilifeform: which potentially changes the semantics of EVERYTHING 1627125;1489519230;a111;Logged on 2017-02-22 04:43 asciilifeform: (it'd require, absolutely, removing the locks. which ~unquantifiably alters the semantics of the entire thing.) 1627126;1489519230;a111;Logged on 2017-03-09 20:33 asciilifeform: and incidentally this will also change the semantics of the block-saver, unless somehow kludged around (e.g. via locking) 1627127;1489519250;mircea_popescu;it would actually be VERY INTERESTING to have a semantics- unpreserving client. let's see dude, wtf DOES happen ? 1627128;1489519260;asciilifeform;well potentially ze bomb 1627129;1489519261;mircea_popescu;fuzzing ftw. 1627130;1489519265;mircea_popescu;how ? 1627131;1489519265;asciilifeform;(forkable) 1627132;1489519279;mircea_popescu;consider : ssh-tunnel ze bomb ? what diiference does it make. 1627133;1489519282;asciilifeform;accepts a block that ye olde trb wouldn'tve 1627134;1489519290;mircea_popescu;yes. and now you know. 1627135;1489519312;asciilifeform;only if the old one is still operating 1627136;1489519318;asciilifeform;sorta the point of trb. 1627137;1489519324;mircea_popescu;well obviously. that's the idea. do it know while they are. 1627138;1489519342;mircea_popescu;that's the fucking rule. something scares you ? DO IT NOW! now, that master's here, now thart you're still young and it heals, now, now, NOW. 1627139;1489519361;asciilifeform;sorta why i have the 'nqb' thing going. 1627140;1489519396;mircea_popescu;after all, dead & replaced trb === fork. 1627141;1489519642;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/hard-freeze-threatens-washington-dc-cherry-blossoms-with-eradication-tonight/ << Qntra - Hard Freeze Threatens Washington DC Cherry Blossoms With Eradication Tonight 1627142;1489519810;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: dunno about dc, but my cherryblossom had bloomed, and already had time to turn liquishit-brown last week 1627143;1489520051;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well with these things even a mere 20 km can make a huge difference in timing 1627144;1489520160;trinque;chilly and sunny here in TX today, been enjoying it on the balcony all day. 1627145;1489520168;davout;so apparently "bitcoin unlimited" nodes are sniped off the network by some remote-crash bug 1627146;1489520177;trinque;onoes! 1627147;1489520180;asciilifeform;empire of lulz 1627148;1489520185;asciilifeform;srsly? bug? 1627149;1489520196;davout;i'm in their IRC room for lulz, it's absolutely delicious 1627150;1489520208;asciilifeform;davout: post lulzlog in the end 1627151;1489520273;trinque;inb4 bug being simply, a very large block. 1627152;1489520279;davout;https://twitter.com/jk_npg/status/841731541038383104 1627153;1489520307;davout;the vulnerability -> https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/841703197723021312 1627154;1489520334;BingoBoingo;davout: pls to submit qntra? 1627155;1489520511;Framedragger;:D so, if not "thing block", then CRASH (`assert(0)`)? A THOUSAND EYES 1627156;1489520519;Framedragger;"thin block" * 1627157;1489520553;Framedragger;"// TODO was drunk, change dis later" 1627158;1489520594;Framedragger;is there a way to short all these scamcoins easily? lol. 1627159;1489520775;Framedragger;(right, this is basically *remote* probably-easy way to make it crash. nice knob.) 1627160;1489520806;davout;BingoBoingo: will make an attempt 1627161;1489520889;BingoBoingo;ty davout 1627162;1489521674;mircea_popescu;davout what room ? 1627163;1489521696;davout;#bitcoinchat 1627164;1489521771;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/14/a-quick-recipe-for-pressing-experimental-trb-trees/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A quick recipe for pressing experimental TRB trees. 1627165;1489521837;mircea_popescu;this is embarqassing, there's nobody there. buncha dorks on eg [marilyn] (~androirc@c-68-37-99-241.hsd1.mi.comcast.net): Android IRC Client wtf. 1627166;1489521892;asciilifeform;doesn't look exploitable, sadly 1627167;1489521909;mircea_popescu;eh, who wants to exploit random luser. 1627168;1489521929;asciilifeform;well in the sense that it's a non-event, 0day-wise. 1627169;1489521934;asciilifeform;crashes, nao wat. 1627170;1489521944;asciilifeform;luser patches, goes back to lusering. 1627171;1489521977;asciilifeform;( rather, than, say, weeping over his freshly formatted hdd ) 1627172;1489522012;mircea_popescu;eh, it's not his women naked saved there anyway. 1627173;1489522015;asciilifeform;hey pete_dushenski didja actually get the tunnels to work ? 1627174;1489522027;mircea_popescu;the "consumer computing community" functions approximately as a spotty porn offline backup. 1627175;1489522149;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: i'll be working on it between a couple of my nodes this afternoon. got a slave set up. now.... master 1627176;1489522193;davout;BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/MrPYS/?raw=true 1627177;1489522201;mircea_popescu;wd! 1627178;1489522372;mircea_popescu;Framedragger looks like we silenced 'em 1627179;1489522442;davout;BingoBoingo: feel free to edit ad lib obviously 1627180;1489522721;mircea_popescu;* marilyn has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) << dude... why. srsly nao. 1627181;1489523094;Framedragger;well now that it's fixxord i'm certain it's smooth sailing from here on. 1627182;1489523096;mircea_popescu;Framedragger the eth recipe is apparently un-fucking-escapeable, no matter what. like the fucking "restaurants" in the us, which WILL be feeding people HFCS no matter the fuck what and how it blows up. 1627183;1489523136;Framedragger;"the audience doesn't change, why should the food change" 1627184;1489523345;pete_dushenski;hfcs trend well underway : "Nobody was predicting what happened in Clarendon in 2016 -- a wave of failures that amounted to a local restaurant die-off. Within the space of a few months, nearly a dozen major restaurants closed their doors, many of them well liked by reviewers and locally popular, some of them fixtures in the neighborhood going back a decade or more." 1627185;1489523347;pete_dushenski;http://www.governing.com/columns/assessments/gov-cafe-urbanism.html 1627186;1489523450;Framedragger;pete_dushenski: wait they had GOOD REVIEWS ON YELP, omg HOW could they have failed 1627187;1489523762;pete_dushenski;lol somehow their cousins and cheap friends weren't enough to buoy the whole establishment 1627188;1489523860;mircea_popescu;this sounds eeerily like sushi. 1627189;1489523877;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/bitcoin-altcoin-unlimited-experiences-drop-in-node-count-due-to-remote-crash-vulnerability/ << Qntra - "Bitcoin" (Altcoin) Unlimited Experiences Drop In Node Count Due To Remote Crash Vulnerability 1627190;1489523890;BingoBoingo;ty davout on your Qntra debut 1627191;1489523934;mod6;nice 1627192;1489523967;ben_vulpes;> what is the name of your youngest child 1627193;1489523975;ben_vulpes;because that's a constant string in the universe 1627194;1489524019;ben_vulpes;> in what city does your nearest sibling live 1627195;1489524021;ben_vulpes;good god 1627196;1489524029;pete_dushenski;davout: a debutante is you! 1627197;1489524084;davout;mazeltov to me 1627198;1489524106;ben_vulpes;oh OH and then while the little javascripty checkboxes next to the fields of pointlessness show green the ACTUAL POSTBACK VALIDATION FAILS 1627199;1489524112;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes by idiots for idiots! 1627200;1489524116;ben_vulpes;what the FUCK is the point of javascript if such RETARDS are going to wield it 1627201;1489524170;Framedragger;i personally have a special place in my heart for the static content websites which refuse to render a single legible char without heavy javascript. not that the rendered text is full of glorious content, of course 1627202;1489524195;mircea_popescu;i thought that's called ajax 1627203;1489524214;ben_vulpes;> is/are invalid 1627204;1489524292;trinque;Framedragger: is it one of those special places full of sadomasochism and despair? 1627205;1489524327;Framedragger;trinque: hah. only pure unfiltered rage - cleaner that way 1627206;1489524527;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: yer outta teh loop, you're supposed to abstract it with the great framework of jquery, no i mean angular, no i mean backbone, no i mean ember, no i mean react 1627207;1489524567;ben_vulpes;hey you take that back about jquery 1627208;1489524568;mircea_popescu;jguangktonembeact 1627209;1489524587;ben_vulpes;she is a CHASTE LADY 1627210;1489524592;ben_vulpes;does not deserve to be so lumped 1627211;1489524600;mircea_popescu;why does she lay with every two bit spamsite then ?! 1627212;1489524616;ben_vulpes;she's a slut not a whore 1627213;1489524622;mircea_popescu;oh, does it for free ? 1627214;1489524642;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: you may have a point i'faith. that said, _why_ is she so fat?.. 1627215;1489524650;ben_vulpes;proud, upstanding slut with no pretension 1627216;1489524669;mircea_popescu;in other lelz, aparently trilema ranks for "the forums of the most serene republic". with the right article, too. 1627217;1489524694;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: that's not a nice way to speak about a girl who's so charitable 1627218;1489524750;mircea_popescu;venereal disease is supposed to thin one out. this is shenaniganich. 1627219;1489524807;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes incidentally, ever run into one of those ? they're most common on teh western seaboard. 1627220;1489525045;mircea_popescu;anyway, i guess that whole BUTT thing was moderately entertaining. 1627221;1489525431;Framedragger;we missed out on quality butthurt because they have a private safespace channel heh. 1627222;1489527028;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: one of which? venereal-laden? 1627223;1489528267;mircea_popescu;dedicated sluts 1627224;1489528791;ben_vulpes;not many, but yes 1627225;1489530676;mircea_popescu;aha. 1627226;1489530920;asciilifeform;hey ben_vulpes do you have the binary versions of first few blocks handy ? 1627227;1489531151;asciilifeform;ok nm 1627228;1489531186;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: ja, still want 'em? 1627229;1489531189;asciilifeform;nope 1627230;1489531197;ben_vulpes;kk 1627231;1489533506;ben_vulpes;in other tls: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/certifi 1627232;1489533612;trinque;aha, they'll ignore your system root certs because fuck you 1627233;1489533627;Framedragger;asciilifeform: unrelated - re. fuckoff.c, aren't you supposed to register that sig_handler() to kernel first (via invoking signal()) for it to even work? 1627234;1489533636;trinque;ben_vulpes: openbsd's package for the thing is neutered to use the system 1627235;1489533670;trinque;not that it means much 1627236;1489533960;Framedragger;asciilifeform: just fyi confirmed that in fuckoff.c, sig_handler() code is redundant as the function is not registered. (adding `signal(SIGHUP, sig_handler);` in main() changes behaviour and fixes this) 1627237;1489534662;asciilifeform;Framedragger: yeah i forgot to cut it 1627238;1489534673;asciilifeform;it isn't needed 1627239;1489534690;Framedragger;i'm not too sure why you even needed a handler for HUP, it closes by default 1627240;1489534695;Framedragger;yeah 1627241;1489534839;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: ^ you can remove that sig_handler definition from fuckoff.c (as well as the signal.h #include) fwiw, as that that code won't ever be executed 1627242;1489534856;*;Framedragger nitpicker of most trivial things 1627243;1489534896;asciilifeform;i dun think this will make his ssh client work tho. 1627244;1489534904;Framedragger;mno :( 1627245;1489534960;Framedragger;god knows what's happening there 1627246;1489535631;Framedragger;owait it opened at $24 not $17, haha 1627247;1489535639;Framedragger;wrong tab, shit 1627248;1489535932;mircea_popescu;yeah that part was server-side. 1627249;1489537150;mircea_popescu;Framedragger done 1627250;1489537322;mircea_popescu;aaand in other trumpreich, looks like the "consumer financial protection bureau" is going away entirely. 1627251;1489537385;mircea_popescu;(invented in 2010 among the boatload of dc-insider-centric pork dodd-frank introduced) 1627252;1489537421;mircea_popescu;liz warren's idea. 1627253;1489537771;mircea_popescu;pretty fine example of exactly why warren was so vocal (item was strictly a barony created so elizabeth warren could be barron OF SOMETHING). this cfpb item spent 55mn on "renovations" of its hq, ie more than the gsa spent that year on everything the usg owns ; spent immensely on travel (which is not something they do). the chairman is supposed to not be removable by the president except "for cause" (meanwhile that got strick 1627254;1489537771;mircea_popescu;en) and, lulzily, they came up with a system to "guess" based on reasons (such as zip codes and last names) who is a black applicant for loans, and then fined various usg agencies masquerading as banks by the 100s of millions for these alleged abuses. and they got it too, because settlement culture. and they didn't, of course, pay as much as a dime to the "estimated" victims, they being you know, "estimated" aka hallucinated, 1627255;1489537771;mircea_popescu; in plain language. 1627256;1489537783;mircea_popescu;nevertheless, the SOPS have been adamant in rejecting lawsuits against them. 1627257;1489537823;mircea_popescu;how exactly elizabeth warren isn't in jail atm is anyone's guess. 1627258;1489537920;mircea_popescu;(the people pushing for the dissolution of the thing are just as unprincipled, ftr. mostly a coalition of "payday lenders" ie 2nd generation loan sharks.) 1627259;1489541315;*;asciilifeform reviewing vintage 'fixes', e.g., https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=102395 >> mircea_popescu tell me, how the fuck does caching ~invalid~ blox make any sense at all ? 1627260;1489541330;asciilifeform;how was this 'fix', any kind of fix. 1627261;1489541446;asciilifeform;'Once the victim receives this invalid block, they will cache it on disk, attempt to process it, and reject it as invalid. Re-requesting the block will not be even attempted since Bitcoin believes that it already has the block, since it has one with the same hash.' 1627262;1489541452;asciilifeform;srsly wat. 1627263;1489541500;asciilifeform;!#s tv raft 1627264;1489541501;a111;6 results for "tv raft", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=tv%20raft 1627265;1489544338;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo awake ? 1627266;1489544343;asciilifeform;i got a nooseitem comin' 1627267;1489544405;mircea_popescu;afaik ancient shitty code. 1627268;1489544451;mircea_popescu;guy pretty much explains it all, merkle tree is a poor hashing scheme by itself. 1627269;1489545485;mircea_popescu;and in other lulz caer i mean eu is actually splitting up huh. 1627270;1489545755;asciilifeform;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/2FaQr/?raw=true 1627271;1489545755;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1627272;1489545966;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: except it's a fine hashing structure! the bug is not a bug : a block with one or more duped tx is ispo facto invalid (double spend.) and bitcoin has NO business keeping around 'hashes of' or any other part of an INVALID block. 1627273;1489545981;asciilifeform;with which to later reject a valid one having same hash. 1627274;1489545983;mircea_popescu;does a buncha padding which meh. 1627275;1489546008;asciilifeform;and what's that do 1627276;1489546046;asciilifeform;*ipso 1627277;1489546067;mircea_popescu;i dunno. 1627278;1489547042;mod6;Update from yesterday: The necessary change has been made to the forthcoming version of V (99994); if when pressing, the given output directory already exists, it will be removed, then will proceed to press new vtree. 1627279;1489547054;mod6;There has been an automated test added for this as well. 1627280;1489547195;mircea_popescu;cool deal. 1627281;1489547331;mod6;yup, still on target for this weekend. 1627282;1489547406;mircea_popescu;a nice 1627283;1489548016;BingoBoingo;ty asciilifeform 1627284;1489548095;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/amazon-rolls-out-an-index-librorum-prohibitorum/ << Qntra - Amazon Rolls Out An Index Librorum Prohibitorum 1627285;1489548204;mircea_popescu;lmao 1627286;1489548226;mircea_popescu;some prime rib coming via mail to qntra these days 1627287;1489548340;mircea_popescu;the significant point, of course, being that the female state DOESNT EVEN DARE ADMIT IT. just like working class mom not buying kid shoes because $reasons, rather than because "i was too dumb when i was 20 to not be poor now that i'm 35 and look like 49, honey." 1627288;1489548358;BingoBoingo;For serious. Loving this submissions from other people business. 1627289;1489548527;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: maybe try this piece in the heathen pits ( 'thedonald' etc ) 1627290;1489548541;*;BingoBoingo contrary to popular belief not an all seeing eye. 1627291;1489548588;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: I am not welcome in that heathen pit 1627292;1489549061;asciilifeform;btw BingoBoingo this is a '0day scoop', afaik discussed nowhere. 1627293;1489549111;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's pet noticed it , directly, when browsing shitazon just few hrs ago. 1627294;1489549142;mircea_popescu;in that case... 1627295;1489549865;*;BingoBoingo still planting it in heathen pits 1627296;1489551629;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Apparently we were not first on the heathenwebz, but first outlet of note. 1627297;1489551648;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: who then 1627298;1489551707;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Some shittty censorship subreddit 1627299;1489551715;asciilifeform;lul 1627300;1489552505;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1627301;1489552520;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1246.54, vol: 5263.87284892 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1231.999, vol: 5886.66739 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1245.9, vol: 17236.09760773 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1163.594754, vol: 1985.67870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1246.828, vol: 1890.30479738 | Volume-weighted last average: 1238.45673452 1627302;1489552542;BingoBoingo;Dat Stabilibutt 1627303;1489552583;BingoBoingo;On that note Imma sleep. Good night my fellow butt trusted servants of the Republic 1627304;1489560376;davout;my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD 1627305;1489560412;davout;how does asciilifeform check his nodes' connected peers? 1627306;1489560467;davout;is the 'wires' patch still considered useful? 1627307;1489564303;jurov;re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything 1627308;1489564343;jurov;and i doubt very much openssh has any extra code to avoid this situation 1627309;1489566300;davout;surprise butseks https://twitter.com/blockchain 1627310;1489566305;davout;http://archive.is/QI0vI 1627311;1489579401;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627305 << netstat 1627312;1489579401;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: how does asciilifeform check his nodes' connected peers? 1627313;1489579462;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far 1627314;1489579462;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 06:47 davout: is the 'wires' patch still considered useful? 1627315;1489579607;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627307 << jurov look how ssh does port forwarding. it doesn't USE the normal shell part for anything. the whole POINT of fuckoff.c is to clog, and work as a 'stopper' for shell access 1627316;1489579607;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 07:51 jurov: re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything 1627317;1489579769;asciilifeform;it's exactly like the 'nologin' util ~except~ that it doesn't hang up. 1627318;1489579924;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes 1627319;1489579924;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD 1627320;1489579953;asciilifeform;ssd is the only complete pill against this, thus far 1627321;1489579995;asciilifeform;( tx index rather ) 1627322;1489581700;mircea_popescu;davout somehow the retard's excuse always is "i'm not the only retard btw". which is a shockingly safe bet not to mention kinda begging the question... OF FUCKING COURSE pointless & witless demographically dominate. but somehow this seems novel and refreshing to them. 1627323;1489581798;mircea_popescu;but lulzy twitter account anyway. http://archive.is/QI0vI/76e3921ab5bdd66b6f2aeec94015e880d514d6dc.jpg <-> http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/ etc. 1627324;1489581821;mircea_popescu;pushing dat female alt-reality hard to dat twit audience. 1627325;1489581857;mircea_popescu;jurov no see the point is for it to clog 1627326;1489581885;mircea_popescu;a nm. 1627327;1489581892;asciilifeform;kenya?!! 1627328;1489581898;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1627329;1489581922;asciilifeform;brain-melting. 1627330;1489581929;mircea_popescu;and they never fucking remember the previous set of перерасход план!!111 headlines 1627331;1489581981;mircea_popescu;that was teh problem of the pcus, see, they kept trying to social media at the elite. they should have social media'd at the shrimps. 1627332;1489585073;asciilifeform;!!up b41e209ccc264812 1627333;1489585073;deedbot;b41e209ccc264812 voiced for 30 minutes. 1627334;1489585346;b41e209ccc264812;!#s book 1627335;1489585347;a111;2824 results for "book", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=book 1627336;1489585373;asciilifeform;what book are you looking for, b41e209ccc264812 ? 1627337;1489585410;b41e209ccc264812;hi 1627338;1489585446;b41e209ccc264812;information on books you might be interested in or commented on 1627339;1489585486;asciilifeform;who might you be, b41e209ccc264812 ? 1627340;1489585575;b41e209ccc264812;right now still nobody 1627341;1489585927;mircea_popescu;that's an interesting approach. 1627342;1489585932;mircea_popescu;any particular field ? 1627343;1489585948;pete_dushenski;b41e209ccc264812: this is pretty up to date, if angled from my particular lens http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/28/petes-mega-recommended-reading-list/ 1627344;1489586136;b41e209ccc264812;thanks Pete. I am still doing trilema.com for now. 1627345;1489586171;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in the monkey circus, https://archive.is/ekC3l >> 'responsible disobedience' didjaknow. 1627346;1489586172;b41e209ccc264812;I have been reading your site/blog too, but will for the time being concentrate on trilema. and worke my way from there 1627347;1489586208;pete_dushenski;np 1627348;1489586350;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform whassat ? "being what we'd have called nazi and a threat to our democracy had trump lost" ? 1627349;1489586364;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'resistance through culture' (tm) (r) 1627350;1489586369;mircea_popescu;ah ah. 1627351;1489586377;mircea_popescu;well, just as long as they don't have to do what they don't wanna do, i guess. 1627352;1489586396;b41e209ccc264812;no particular field. I am interested in general as what might be on your reading lists. Some of the concepts and topics you discuss are very interesting. But sometimes I find myself lacking background information and decided to start from somewhere 1627353;1489586412;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform do you remember me translating the "feminine exceptionalism" article recently ? i can't fucking find it but im pretty sure i did 1627354;1489586426;mircea_popescu;b41e209ccc264812 may take a while. 1627355;1489586442;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: http://thewhet.net/2017/feminine-exceptionalism << hanbot ? 1627356;1489586447;b41e209ccc264812;not may it will ;) 1627357;1489586452;mircea_popescu;o she did! excellet! ty. 1627358;1489586473;mircea_popescu;i'm like "i know i fucking read this in english! WTF WHERE IS IT!!!1" 1627359;1489586496;mircea_popescu;anyway, working on "how to be a pimp" guide, secrets revealed. 1627360;1489586529;pete_dushenski;this was in ro, yes ? (i seem to recall poorly translating it at one point) 1627361;1489586583;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/jJIES << related 'guide' from heathendom 1627362;1489586587;mircea_popescu;yeah 1627363;1489586618;mircea_popescu;you get bonus comparison then. not to mention the end product is half notes (i think this is one of the "absolutely hardest to translate that can still be translated" category) 1627364;1489586654;pete_dushenski;i seem to be a sucker for those :/ 1627365;1489586658;pete_dushenski;http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/20/how-to-be-a-pimp-a-simple-yet-understandable-and-still-exhaustive-guide-translated/ << 1627366;1489587069;pete_dushenski;!!up b41e209ccc264812 1627367;1489587070;deedbot;b41e209ccc264812 voiced for 30 minutes. 1627368;1489589982;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/how-to-be-a-pimp-the-simple-comprehensible-and-exhaustive-guide/ << Trilema - How to be a pimp - the simple, comprehensible and exhaustive guide 1627369;1489592251;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski http://trilema.com/2010/bai-mi-e-lene/ << tried that one ? 1627370;1489593062;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627313 <<< cool, i'll send you a ssh key 1627371;1489593062;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 12:04 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far 1627372;1489593078;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627318 <<< what are those? 1627373;1489593078;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 12:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes 1627374;1489593083;asciilifeform;davout: ideally this would take some other form than everybody hanging off my particular node 1627375;1489593120;asciilifeform;davout: see logs. it's when the thing grinds to a halt while verifying block, while waiting for 1,000,001 random disk writes to complete 1627376;1489593178;davout;you don't mean reads? when verifying individual txes? 1627377;1489593267;asciilifeform;davout: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000255.html and http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000256.html and past 2 wks of logs. 1627378;1489593278;asciilifeform;when ~saving a block~ 1627379;1489593369;davout;yeah i followed all that, didn't realize it was the ~writes~ clogging up everything 1627380;1489593404;asciilifeform;the interesting bit is that the problem vanishes on ssd 1627381;1489593450;asciilifeform;if it weren't for the screaming insanity of bdb, you could theoretically 'elevator algorithm' the disk accesses 1627382;1489593460;asciilifeform;and get ~same result 1627383;1489593460;davout;seems quite curious, it'd intuitively seem like the block would be written in one single pass, and then the db might spend time on reads to connect transactions to their parents, but writes... wtf 1627384;1489593470;asciilifeform;davout: the tx index is the issue 1627385;1489593472;asciilifeform;not the block writing 1627386;1489593478;davout;aha 1627387;1489593491;davout;that makes sense 1627388;1489593529;davout;we'll see how that goes i guess, i was kinda wondering whether i should get a ssd-equipped server anyway 1627389;1489593547;mircea_popescu;for bitcoin, yes. and mind that it's >128gb already. 1627390;1489593567;davout;the whole chain? 1627391;1489593571;mircea_popescu;yeah 1627392;1489593595;davout;du -sh ~/.trb reports 131gb 1627393;1489593604;mircea_popescu;aha 1627394;1489593614;asciilifeform;also there'll be the debug log 1627395;1489593646;davout;can live on /dev/null for all i care, unless i'm specifically looking into something 1627396;1489593660;mircea_popescu;yes but if you are then it can't unlive on dev/null 1627397;1489593746;davout;so far it blocks for a while on the 'getinfo' call, but seems to still be up to date 1627398;1489593767;davout;is it 457370 1627399;1489593831;davout;*it is 1627400;1489594269;asciilifeform;davout: if you have a box with a ssd ~and~ traditional disks, put the debug log on the traditional 1627401;1489594278;asciilifeform;(it dun need fast random access) 1627402;1489594287;davout;yeah obviously :) 1627403;1489594320;asciilifeform;also if you have a consistent empty 4GB of memory, you can apply my cache patch (not yet an official vpatch, but it is a 1liner, ups bdb's cache to max) 1627404;1489594330;asciilifeform;for roughly 2x speedup 1627405;1489594358;asciilifeform;(i recommend a box with at least 16GB installed, to use this) 1627406;1489594376;davout;aha, thanks for the tip, i do have 16gb on the hdd-only box 1627407;1489594414;asciilifeform;the 'odometer' patch will show the change in timing 1627408;1489594434;asciilifeform;davout, mircea_popescu : probably the bdb cache thing oughta become a command line knob. 1627409;1489594466;asciilifeform;( i'd much rather that bdb simply went away. but this may take a while. ) 1627410;1489594613;mircea_popescu;honestly, it should just be a patch. there's no serious reason to allow the usage of trb on tiny boxes 1627411;1489594622;mircea_popescu;max the cache and that's that. 1627412;1489594634;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: zoolag, the more reliable of my 2 nodez, has 4GB total ! 1627413;1489594638;asciilifeform;believe or not. 1627414;1489594650;asciilifeform;nearly 0 blackhole, and 0 OOM events. 1627415;1489594654;mircea_popescu;hm 1627416;1489594657;asciilifeform;aha. 1627417;1489594671;asciilifeform;thing is the size of a grown man's fist, also. 1627418;1489594673;asciilifeform;ssd box. 1627419;1489594684;mircea_popescu;well, i guess that's a serious reason then 1627420;1489594722;asciilifeform;that thing also runs various housekeeping systems, aside from trb. like a champ. 1627421;1489594788;asciilifeform;while we're on subj: 1627422;1489594805;asciilifeform;in other noose, 'nqb' now eats, parses, blocks and tx, correctly, and HEAPLESSly 1627423;1489594883;Framedragger;^ that's pretty kewl. 1627424;1489594903;mircea_popescu;nice 1627425;1489594923;asciilifeform;after it also demonstrates the indexing algo from last week, i'ma vgenesisate it and post. 1627426;1489594936;asciilifeform;anybody other than asciilifeform have a working gnat toolchain yet ? 1627427;1489594995;asciilifeform;( it slowly dawned on me, that a proper block eater is perhaps half of an entire btctron... ) 1627428;1489595040;asciilifeform;^ the other half, the hard half, is largely the actual script execution / cryptolade. 1627429;1489595055;asciilifeform;which i don't have, and have no intention of attempting in near future, hands are quite full. 1627430;1489595085;Framedragger;yeah i wanted to ask how you managed to implement script stuff in this amount of time but i guess no need to parse scripts to have definitive view of all tx 1627431;1489595138;asciilifeform;Framedragger: i specifically did not, the scripts are left alone, the blocks are verified only in the very limited sense of mechanical format (lengths do not fandango out of buffer limits, etc) 1627432;1489595149;Framedragger;ahh, okok. 1627433;1489595164;asciilifeform;idea is simply to demonstrate sane storage and indexing. 1627434;1489595188;asciilifeform;and that a btctron can run in a constant, defined memory footprint 1627435;1489595190;Framedragger;yeah! i imagine it's gonna be tremendous and yuge :) (but seriously, compared to userspace fs....) 1627436;1489595250;Framedragger;did you already have a chance to check if there are any tx collisions in the 32 bit address scheme? just curious 1627437;1489595268;mircea_popescu;it's not a minor point given that no bitcoin implementation is currently known that DOES in fact run within a defined memory footprint. 1627438;1489595289;Framedragger;yeah this is a big wtf. 1627439;1489595294;asciilifeform;Framedragger: nope. ben_vulpes is actually running the churn, on his (working) btctron, i deliberately left it to him 1627440;1489595298;mircea_popescu;tho trb was made to adhere pretty closely. 1627441;1489595333;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 90% of the retardation of trb is that objects live in heap and are all part of a massive ball of yarn, linked to one another 1627442;1489595338;asciilifeform;hence the 'wait for locks to expire!' idiocies 1627443;1489595346;asciilifeform;and inability to remove anything procedurally from mempool, say 1627444;1489595389;mircea_popescu;yep 1627445;1489595403;asciilifeform;i will note that in domains where The Thing Must Work, Motherfuckers, e.g., spacecraft, (traditionally) heaps are forbidden. 1627446;1489595414;mircea_popescu;a recurring observation. 1627447;1489595447;asciilifeform;it is tremendously painful, at first glance, e.g, 'wanna parse blocks?' 'fine, determine now the maximal space that will EVER be occupied by the process, and put it Right Here Forever' 1627448;1489595497;asciilifeform;then you sit for three days and finally realize that never do you need more than 2MB for it. 1627449;1489595561;asciilifeform;(i.e. ~any~ proper, 1MB, bitcoin block can be made to sit down in no more than a 2MB-sized bottle such that indexing of its components becomes an O(1) operation.) 1627450;1489595601;asciilifeform;i will leave the algo an exercise for readers, who can then see if they came up with same one, after i post mine. 1627451;1489595648;Framedragger;(also recursion forbidden, too, e.g. (in jpl c handbook) - all about predictable execution..) 1627452;1489595698;asciilifeform;so to round off the thread: blocks can be stored in 'fast' form, and reconstituted as-needed for transmission to peers; or alternatively, with 2x the disk cost, can be stored in both forms (i prefer the latter, with a background thread that randomly spot-checks the correspondence, which oughta be an iron 1:1 , everywhere ) 1627453;1489595748;asciilifeform;if it isn't obvious : 'fast form' is simply a SANE tabularization, removing the idiot varints 1627454;1489595779;asciilifeform;(shitoshi's varints require you to parse WHOLE FUCKING TX just to find, e.g., 1 particular output) 1627455;1489595796;asciilifeform;and to parse WHOLE FUCKING BLOCK to find one particular tx, etc. 1627456;1489595852;asciilifeform;so instead of varints, we 'pascalize' the data structure, and have set of indices at the start to each of the components and its length. 1627457;1489595869;asciilifeform;and then likewise same thing is done to blocks. 1627458;1489595909;asciilifeform;finding a given input or output of a given tx, becomes O(1), theoretically. 1627459;1489596043;Framedragger;nice. so you have local pointers within given data structure (e.g. block) referring to starts of whatever-relevant-stuff? (i didn't even know that satoshi's code used variable length ints) 1627460;1489596069;asciilifeform;Framedragger: not pointers in the c sense, but in effect yes. 1627461;1489596088;Framedragger;local offsets i guess. 1627462;1489596219;asciilifeform;and yes the tard used variably-sized numerals ( http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h?v=makefiles#0193 ) for ~everything ! 1627463;1489596234;asciilifeform;and not even bignum representation, where'd it begin to make a vague sort of sense, 1627464;1489596260;asciilifeform;but for integers from 8 to 64 bit ! 1627465;1489596279;asciilifeform;as a result, parsing ANY of the traditional bitcoin serializations, is O(N) operation ! 1627466;1489596350;Framedragger;wow 1627467;1489596432;Framedragger;at first i thought "well for small ints it's just an additional nSize check which is retarted but whatever", but he writes the bytes himself regardless of int size and i'm sure compiler etc. won't be able to optimise much there 1627468;1489596527;Framedragger;wait he uses boost right, doesn't boost have its own 'multiprecision' thingie a la bignum? 1627469;1489596530;Framedragger;wtf :D 1627470;1489596534;asciilifeform;not related. 1627471;1489596538;Framedragger;ah okok. 1627472;1489596606;Framedragger;(hm, 'cpp_int' (part of boost's multiprecision module) is allegedly an arbitrary precision int lib, but whatever / maybe not applicable) 1627473;1489596627;asciilifeform;we're talking about small integers (max is 64bit) strictly. 1627474;1489596649;asciilifeform;as in, ~counts~ of inputs/outputs in a tx; counts of tx in blocks 1627475;1489596691;Framedragger;oh hah ok.. and he felt compelled to use his custom thing for those, too. ok lol 1627476;1489596695;asciilifeform;they save ~no space, but effectively prevent you from operating in anything other than O(N) 1627477;1489596719;asciilifeform;Framedragger: bignums are stored in openssl's liquishit format, unrelated. 1627478;1489596725;Framedragger;myeah you can't randomly access things in the middle, etc. lol. 1627479;1489596731;Framedragger;aha ok. 1627480;1489598398;mircea_popescu;it's basically a hobble. from which we discern satoshi, whether married or not, certainly saw no fundamental problem with marriage as a mental construction / social narrative. 1627481;1489598428;asciilifeform;lolwut 1627482;1489598446;mircea_popescu;individualized integers! 1627483;1489598465;asciilifeform;not even very individual, there are exactly 4 sizes 1627484;1489598493;asciilifeform;but it's enough so as to never know where n+2nd element of a sequence is, without eating the n+1st ! 1627485;1489598496;mircea_popescu;yep. just like marriage. 1627486;1489598507;mircea_popescu;poor man's adventure. 1627487;1489598693;asciilifeform;great simulator of cassette tape, on modern comp. 1627488;1489598713;asciilifeform;want to load anything ? gotta wind through whole thing up to that place. 1627489;1489599492;danielpbarron;how is that like marriage? 1627490;1489599548;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: i was speaking of the varint thing 1627491;1489599592;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: mircea_popescu seems to use 'marriage' to refer to just about any poorly thought-through, short-sighted plan 1627492;1489599729;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform danielpbarron the arrangement a) between one man and one woman which b) presumes to be wilfully entered by both and c) claims to resolve all the possible problems they may encounter is, necessarily, a casette tape. 1627493;1489599788;danielpbarron;so the heathen interpretation, not the Biblical. 1627494;1489599812;mircea_popescu;well the biblical interpretation is neither clear nor practically relevant, seeing how heathens exist but biblical marriages are necessarily livresque. 1627495;1489599860;danielpbarron;i know of a few 1627496;1489599874;mircea_popescu;but anyway, my point was that there's actual effectual activity, and then there's the specific sort of pointless makework which self-referentially tends to capture people. 1627497;1489599914;mircea_popescu;ie, man enjoys a woman specifically ; satoshi wishes to make bitcoin. that's all well and good. then man proceeds to marry her and satoshi proceeds to design a scheme whereby everyhing's suddenly and for no reason o(n). 1627498;1489599923;mircea_popescu;the resemblance is striking, to me. but then again mebbe im weird. 1627499;1489599956;asciilifeform;bad engineering ALWAYS eventually takes the form of a glue trap, where 'entry costs a buck; exit -- two!' 1627500;1489599969;mircea_popescu;and bad living, also. 1627501;1489599970;asciilifeform;sorta like a kid falling behind in school 1627502;1489599976;asciilifeform;as per old mircea_popescu essay 1627503;1489599977;mircea_popescu;aha. 1627504;1489600008;danielpbarron;if a man enjoys a woman he absolutely should marry her 1627505;1489600010;*;trinque always wonders why people want to involve the govt in the thing 1627506;1489600026;trinque;danielpbarron: towards purpose? 1627507;1489600032;danielpbarron;marry just means: won't cast away 1627508;1489600046;mircea_popescu;if she knows she can't be cast away that fucks up her incentive structure. 1627509;1489600054;mircea_popescu;no, that stays on the table. let her behave herself. 1627510;1489600106;danielpbarron;it is not casting away if you give an order and she refuses to follow. can still beat her/ restrain etc 1627511;1489600138;mircea_popescu;teh cast away device is immensely valuable : to the loving woman it is truly the bottom, worst possible penalty ; to the unloving a welcome release. 1627512;1489600138;danielpbarron;idk why fucking other men has to be on the table 1627513;1489600146;mircea_popescu;what, you're gonna beat her to death ? meh. 1627514;1489600146;trinque;man, if I think back on all the women I cast away, and they were all in this room 1627515;1489600153;trinque;jesus christ, indeed 1627516;1489600157;mircea_popescu;what'd happen ? 1627517;1489600182;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron well cast away dun mean you also take her back does it. 1627518;1489600190;danielpbarron;it would be better she die than lie with another for sure 1627519;1489600200;mircea_popescu;why. maybe they fit better. 1627520;1489600206;danielpbarron;too late 1627521;1489600213;mircea_popescu;for whom ? 1627522;1489600218;danielpbarron;everyone 1627523;1489600262;mircea_popescu;suppose you're born and a perfect and ideal bride is destined to you. suppose 15 years later a black immigrant from the arab nation of africa gets her drunk at a party and fucks her. is it now too late for you ? 1627524;1489600308;danielpbarron;!~bible mat 19:6 1627525;1489600310;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Matthew 19:6 :: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 1627526;1489600318;mircea_popescu;yes, but you've not even met her yet. 1627527;1489600331;danielpbarron;there is no soul mate 1627528;1489600342;mircea_popescu;so mating is not pre-ordained ? 1627529;1489600357;danielpbarron;all that matters is women not be passed around like harlots 1627530;1489600367;mircea_popescu;hm. 1627531;1489600382;danielpbarron;her getting drunk fucking nigger was pre-ordained 1627532;1489600428;mircea_popescu;suppose you meet this girl that loves you and get married and then have sex on wedding night and she's allergic to your sperm (this happens, yes), goes into anaphylactic shock an' dies. was this pre-ordained ? 1627533;1489600441;danielpbarron;yes 1627534;1489600448;mircea_popescu;therefore her marrying you was preordained ? 1627535;1489600466;danielpbarron;and lucky her she's not going to hell because i wouldn't have married a heathen 1627536;1489600491;danielpbarron;God causes all things, even evil 1627537;1489600504;danielpbarron;!~bible isa 45:7 1627538;1489600505;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Isaiah 45:7 :: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 1627539;1489600587;mircea_popescu;it'd seem to me that in the continuum between "whenever a man is born a woman is allocated him, soulmate" and "let them be passed around and let the dogs fuck them too, what, it's a muscle. not like they're made of soap" the specific "there's no soulmate but there shouldn't be gynorgies either" spot you select is hard to support in any fundamental way. 1627540;1489600649;danielpbarron;wha? i'm not saying a man can't have multiple wives. if the first sucks get another, just don't ditch the first 1627541;1489600682;danielpbarron;and this is a better incetive structure for preventing the bad relationship in the first place 1627542;1489600691;mircea_popescu;i wonder. 1627543;1489600727;danielpbarron;ie: careful who you humble, you'll be stuck with her 1627544;1489600768;trinque;sounds more like it causes timidity in the male, than building judgment 1627545;1489600806;trinque;most basic drive there is, ever present, DO NOT FUCK IT UP EVER NOT ONCE 1627546;1489600810;danielpbarron;timid males go to hell 1627547;1489600835;trinque;while they haven't yet, they're a nuisance to the living 1627548;1489600870;mircea_popescu;i dunno, why would the woman be a drag in the first place ? old loves dun bother mp any. heck, they're a substantial part of his imperial majesty. 1627549;1489600937;danielpbarron;can be a drag if one believes Bible and other doesn't 1627550;1489600992;mircea_popescu;only if one believes and is wrong while the other doesn't and is right. otherwise... what's the problem, truth prevails eventually. 1627551;1489601077;danielpbarron;sure, if he was saved after the marriage. otherwise it's dubious to say he believes if he was willing to lay with a heathen 1627552;1489601117;trinque;what if he only does it standing up? 1627553;1489601136;danielpbarron;let the truth prevail first, then lay 1627554;1489601177;danielpbarron;i'm not convinced it's possible to convert girls with cock 1627555;1489601186;mircea_popescu;yeah, that's one of the weirdest things. they mostly did it standing (like, for the record, it's normal!) and yet the expressions all reference the decaying mores of the empire. 1627556;1489601926;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/genetics-proposes-the-environment-disposes/ << Trilema - Genetics proposes, the environment disposes. 1627557;1489604365;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627505 << relevant lulzy article: https://qntm.org/gay 1627558;1489604365;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 17:46 trinque always wonders why people want to involve the govt in the thing 1627559;1489604445;trinque;"eye-poppingly sexist" << wtf I am not reading this 1627560;1489604500;danielpbarron;lool "y2gay" 1627561;1489604526;Framedragger;like any other place, this one's got their trigger words, too. careful not to read too much literature in case you segfault, trinque 1627562;1489604538;Framedragger;like, that *the* thing you picked out. great, success 1627563;1489604543;Framedragger;that's* 1627564;1489604595;Framedragger;spoiler, it gets into nice examples of graph theory. but yeah, not the $badword!!1 1627565;1489604630;*;Framedragger proposes #trilema-safespace ; no badwords! 1627566;1489604657;trinque;what, we jettisoned a quip guy and now you're it? 1627567;1489604665;danielpbarron;he's on the right track with the eye-poppingly sexist scheme. it should, however, be the woman who stores the husband id, that way many women can be paired to one man 1627568;1489604671;asciilifeform;'There are a lot of people in the world who actually think like this. This is their for-real, no-joking conception of "marriage". They do not grasp that men and women are interchangeable, as a result of which homosexual marriages create repulsive integrity problems in their heads. "But if they're both guys, which one is the wife? Does not compute!" How sad.' 1627569;1489604680;trinque;the article signs off with a turd about open minds and flexible worldviews and so on 1627570;1489604683;asciilifeform;dunno, genuine libertard, or parody 1627571;1489604685;asciilifeform;but snoar. 1627572;1489604692;Framedragger;danielpbarron: iirc there's a scheme down there which allows for this, etc. 1627573;1489604694;trinque;rejecting something on the basis of politics is entirely reasonable 1627574;1489604719;Framedragger;you do understand that you can use words descriptively and not normatively, right? 1627575;1489604748;Framedragger;anyway, it's true, not the most interesting piece; was relevant and lulzy enough for me; guess i'm timid 1627576;1489604749;trinque;I'm not engaging in the sidestepping game with you. 1627577;1489604751;asciilifeform;Framedragger: 'repulsive' and 'are interchangeable' seem pretty normative. 1627578;1489604759;asciilifeform;declarations, of as-if-fact. 1627579;1489604784;Framedragger;myeah, that'd do it. 1627580;1489604791;danielpbarron;Framedragger, i liked it. made me chuckle 1627581;1489604881;*;Framedragger secretly likes the guy's scifi. but, yah, point taken 1627582;1489604910;trinque;anyhow the 2% in there about "you will have to edit your schema" sure 1627583;1489604964;mircea_popescu;lel. 1627584;1489604977;mircea_popescu;i have nfi why the muricans imagine "everything" is up for their review. 1627585;1489604982;mircea_popescu;nothing is up for their review. 1627586;1489604999;mircea_popescu;not the meaning of words, not all, not any ; not the substance of human relations nor the organising of human activity nor anything else. 1627587;1489605009;Framedragger;(british, but the point stands...) 1627588;1489605016;mircea_popescu;no such thing as british. 1627589;1489605019;Framedragger;ah. 1627590;1489605028;mircea_popescu;that died at a time orwell was a young man. this dude's murican from the island. 1627591;1489605163;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron what do you do when women start declaring your id ? note that this isn't an idle consideration, but quite the fundamental problem of harem societies. clemens has some notes about it re life in the mormon lands, for instance. it's everywhere. 1627592;1489605220;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform cog wants to be cog, cockroach thinks "o, man doesn't feel interchangeable, how sad!!1". pretty lulzy. 1627593;1489605222;danielpbarron;heh if we're gonna get technical, perhaps she declares instead a signed thing produced by me 1627594;1489605235;mircea_popescu;so then we just store your list of signeds. 1627595;1489605252;mircea_popescu;but as a general principle of db design : the property is stored with its creator, not with its object. 1627596;1489605273;mircea_popescu;thus, if you decide which women are your wives, "wife" is a field of you-entry in db. 1627597;1489605345;danielpbarron;what would that be? a concatonated string of woman ids? 1627598;1489605368;mircea_popescu;i guess ? no good way to apply the eyepoppingly socialist db model to the fundamentally republican reality of domestic disturbances. 1627599;1489605541;danielpbarron;hey i agree. i don't think it needs to be a database or state issue. can be between husband and father of girl. if there's a dispute later, let them testify accordingly 1627600;1489605557;mircea_popescu;to whom ? 1627601;1489605566;danielpbarron;judges 1627602;1489605574;mircea_popescu;who the fuck are gonna be the judges. 1627603;1489605628;danielpbarron;if it's up to me, old men who believe the Bible 1627604;1489605634;mircea_popescu;suppose #dbp ends up with a million souls hanging off it. are you going to now hear all this crap ? 100/day ? really ? 1627605;1489605666;danielpbarron;that would be a nice problem to have 1627606;1489605689;trinque;old men are bad enough without turning them into grandmothers-to-all 1627607;1489605714;mircea_popescu;perhaps because you've never had it. but from experience, being the judge of a troop of idiots is the worst fucking horror of a turd to fall on your head. and this holds even if you have life and death powers and the ability to construct the law andf its application however you wish through simple declaration. 1627608;1489605737;danielpbarron;i doubt grandmothers would rule that adulterers should be stoned to death 1627609;1489605772;trinque;man old women love nothing more than gossiping about so and so's young whore daughter 1627610;1489605790;trinque;theirs stopped working! 1627611;1489605815;mircea_popescu;it may even be the original driver of language, the old women's need to do something aboutthe young sluts. 1627612;1489605917;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron the overarching concern isn't so much what to do about x as what to do so all the fanciule don't start pressuring them out of society. 1627613;1489606011;danielpbarron;pressuring who? the judges? 1627614;1489606021;mircea_popescu;them, the old women. 1627615;1489606088;danielpbarron;according to the Bible, we get just as you describe. this world is no good and everyone seeks evil continuously 1627616;1489606110;mircea_popescu;in other utter lulz : Books by Proust, Marcel (sorted by popularity) Swann's Way Marcel Proust 1002 downloads ; Du côté de chez Swann (French) Marcel Proust 400 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 97 downloads ; Sodome et Gomorrhe - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 71 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs — Troisième partie (French) Marcel Pro 1627617;1489606110;mircea_popescu;ust 62 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Première partie (French) Marcel Proust 59 downloads ; A l'ombre des jeunes filles en fleurs — Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 52 downloads ; Sodome et Gomorrhe - Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 48 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Deuxième partie (French) Marcel Proust 44 downloads ; Le Côté de Guermantes - Troisième partie (French) Marcel Proust 35 downl 1627618;1489606110;mircea_popescu;oads 1627619;1489606158;danielpbarron;so what happens? we get exactly what can be seen all around today 1627620;1489606164;mircea_popescu;this, from gutenberg. poor guy can't match trilema's day with his opera omnia. 1627621;1489606413;danielpbarron;on this topic i side with the muslims. not the so-called christians 1627622;1489606428;mircea_popescu;about what, judges ? closeted homosexuals ? old books ? 1627623;1489606444;danielpbarron;marriage 1627624;1489606477;danielpbarron;one man, multiple women ; execute adulterers and homosexuals 1627625;1489606598;mircea_popescu;why do you care enough about what other people do to want to kill them anyway. you mean like, adulterers you find in your own closet ? 1627626;1489606672;danielpbarron;they defile the land and the country 1627627;1489606686;mircea_popescu;hm. 1627628;1489606695;mircea_popescu;how about unqualified github contributors ? 1627629;1489606723;danielpbarron;i don't want to go looking for them but they certainly shouldn't be permitted to flaunt it in public 1627630;1489606744;trinque;"shouldn't be permitted" is what everybody asking somebody else for a mega-state says 1627631;1489606751;danielpbarron;as is the case in the US and europe 1627632;1489606773;trinque;whether the mega-state religion is communism or this 1627633;1489606778;mircea_popescu;wait, so they actually befouling land and country you want to punish only if they do it in your sight ; but the fuckers you want to punish in principle ? 1627634;1489606788;mircea_popescu;maybe they do it in their own closed and ain't botherin' you none. 1627635;1489606822;trinque;thought jesus was supposed to have hung out with whores and so on, wasn't apparently befouled by the act 1627636;1489606838;trinque;this sounds more like fundamentalist judiasm 1627637;1489606853;danielpbarron;the Bible says it defiles. i doubt they could do it in private for long without it somehow manifesting in public 1627638;1489606857;mircea_popescu;who, magdalene ? 1627639;1489606864;*;ben_vulpes mutters something about join table for wives and husbands 1627640;1489606911;trinque;many to many eh? gettin wild 1627641;1489606919;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes laugh if you will but the issue is not entirely uninteresting... working on marriage for eulora. though there - one will only be able top marry npcs. even if they start as pcs - fine method for a player to suicide an avatar, this. 1627642;1489606923;danielpbarron;Jesus died for the sins of everyone. that doesn't mean sin isn't sin anymore 1627643;1489606954;mircea_popescu;trinque predictably, that objection runs into the son of god doctrine. dood also went to hell, and crashed the gates. 1627644;1489606972;ben_vulpes;trinque: could enforce uniqueness in the second column 1627645;1489606978;trinque;something something "he who is blameless cast the first stone" 1627646;1489606995;trinque;anyhow the whole thing's inconsistent so anybody can pluck anything 1627647;1489607007;mircea_popescu;but inconsistent where ? 1627648;1489607089;trinque;doesn't the guy or one of his progeny also say "wages of sin is death" 1627649;1489607102;mircea_popescu;possibly. 1627650;1489607104;trinque;so I can see where danielpbarron would say kill 'em 1627651;1489607119;trinque;or I can decide I'm a softy and "turn the other cheek" 1627652;1489607133;mircea_popescu;well is it a sin or an offense ? 1627653;1489607147;danielpbarron;it may be the case that nobody is qualified to do the execution, but execution is still the right thing. Jesus told that whore to "sin no more" 1627654;1489607185;mircea_popescu;who, magdalene ? 1627655;1489607227;danielpbarron;i don't know if this one was named. the thing to which trinque is referring "cast first stone" 1627656;1489607249;mircea_popescu;ah yes. but i'd rather discuss the whore he wilfully or accidentally omitted to address as such. 1627657;1489607259;mircea_popescu;you know, exactly in the manner of tolerating whorishness generally. 1627658;1489607298;danielpbarron;if she repents then she is no longer a whore 1627659;1489607301;trinque;ah I just didn't remember her name 1627660;1489607304;mircea_popescu;no record she did. 1627661;1489607315;danielpbarron;who, mary? 1627662;1489607321;mircea_popescu;mary magdalene, yes. 1627663;1489607329;danielpbarron;she did i believe 1627664;1489607336;mircea_popescu;ah, but she did in general terms. that counts ? 1627665;1489607341;mircea_popescu;"sorry for being bad master" ? 1627666;1489607343;danielpbarron;she anointed Christ before his execution 1627667;1489607366;mircea_popescu;yes, but would you propose "she sucked the judges off, all of them" as a fine defense in your above case for whoredom ? 1627668;1489607381;danielpbarron;what?? 1627669;1489607390;mircea_popescu;well... "she anointed". what if she did. 1627670;1489607472;danielpbarron;eh it may be the case she didn't believe. i don't suppose it matters. the fact remains a whore generally may repent and no longer be a whore, although it would still be appropriate to execute her 1627671;1489607492;mircea_popescu;but apparently a whore may also ambiguously pass for random follower and it wouldn't matter. 1627672;1489607510;mircea_popescu;which yes, matches my own experience. 1627673;1489607513;danielpbarron;judas was a follower 1627674;1489607527;mircea_popescu;he was, at that. 1627675;1489607544;mircea_popescu;pretty great problem in chrisology. 1627676;1489607562;mircea_popescu;or how do you say this in english, hristology ? 1627677;1489607614;danielpbarron;!~bible mat 7:21 1627678;1489607615;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Matthew 7:21 :: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 1627679;1489607676;mircea_popescu;ah, mind that the eventual fate of all these is of no interest in this discussion. we were just going on about the "should be" and "shouldn't be". if mary doesn't have to publicly admit she was a whore, and if nobody has to point out to her, and if she may vaguely repent without mentioning, or maybe not, and it makes no difference, then why not random hussy aged 17 in 2017. 1627680;1489607710;mircea_popescu;i will excuse carol of "cool it, carol" fame with the exact same rod. 1627681;1489607726;mircea_popescu;(note that she also does repent, in the same approximate manner.) 1627682;1489607764;danielpbarron;what matters is that if she repents she will stop doing the bad thing! this can be plainly observed 1627683;1489607787;mircea_popescu;well i how can it be plainly observed when you didn't observe the other deeds any ; nor did the observation get recorded. 1627684;1489607833;danielpbarron;ask her! everyone i talk to here in connecticut freely admits they are a whore/adulterer 1627685;1489607844;mircea_popescu;suppose she has more sense than that. 1627686;1489607942;danielpbarron;how could she unless she knew the penalty was death? they freely admit this because there is no consequence. 1627687;1489607961;mircea_popescu;might also be because they're utterly unsophisticated. 1627688;1489607969;danielpbarron;that too 1627689;1489607975;mircea_popescu;this is generally how the urban poor end up in jail. 1627690;1489607992;mircea_popescu;incidentally dorky black men get sent up for "drugs" now. it could readily be dorky white girls for "whoredom". 1627691;1489608001;mircea_popescu;poor people are very unpeople-like. 1627692;1489608055;danielpbarron;how woukd my conversation go with the rich whore? 1627693;1489608067;mircea_popescu;try it ? 1627694;1489608082;mircea_popescu;but not so far off from how the conversation goes with me ; after all i taught most of them har har. 1627695;1489608095;danielpbarron;i don't know any apparently. or rather i haven't met a whore i couldn't get to admit it 1627696;1489608120;mircea_popescu;how much is the business hotel only call girl in connecticut ? 1k a night by now ? 2 ? 1627697;1489608133;danielpbarron;no clue 1627698;1489608151;danielpbarron;i don't even tinder 1627699;1489608162;mircea_popescu;so identify one, run into her "accidentally" in town, ask her out and then ask her what she does for a living. 1627700;1489608201;mircea_popescu;(and if she says "i'm a high end whore" fucking marry her, because srsly.) 1627701;1489608468;danielpbarron;i don't follow. because she was honest? perhaps i should clarify, i use whore to mean a woman who has sex with multiple men. harlot is a better word (friend of the world) but both are bad things: whether she is paid is irrelevant 1627702;1489608490;mircea_popescu;pretty much. she was honest ~with you~. dun expect she does this generally, was the subtext. 1627703;1489608500;mircea_popescu;ie, the portion of the observation germane to the topic. 1627704;1489608581;danielpbarron;if she repented of being a whore and really came to be saved then yeah i could see marrying her, maybe. but the onus would be on her to do that. I'm better off single, it's her best interest to marry 1627705;1489608600;mircea_popescu;this is certainly a matter of perspective. 1627706;1489608613;mircea_popescu;after all, she pulls 1k/night. 1627707;1489608664;danielpbarron;not anymore (she repented!) 1627708;1489608683;danielpbarron;1k/night at expense of eternal soul, so.. 1627709;1489608726;danielpbarron;in eulora terms this would be something like "oh hey this is really profitable to do but then my whole account gets nuked" 1627710;1489608857;mircea_popescu;well, she can repent if you want her to, but she still has a town house, eighty lbs of jewelry and about half a million in cash in strongboxes all over mexico. 1627711;1489608915;danielpbarron;!~bible mark 10:25 1627712;1489608916;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Mark 10:25 :: It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 1627713;1489608995;mircea_popescu;yes, but the discussion was who's better off how / interests etc. 1627714;1489608999;danielpbarron;ah i see what you mean, suppose despite all that comfort she still repents, and now she also has all this stuff. so she dosen't need me in the financial sense. but maybe she wants kids 1627715;1489609032;mircea_popescu;$20 at the sperm bank. 1627716;1489609045;danielpbarron;and a father to raise them 1627717;1489609065;mircea_popescu;well, maybe she can't find any proper men, so she just picks up an orphan kid and raises that. 1627718;1489609126;danielpbarron;hey if she's saved i don't care what else she does. adopts a bunch of orphans, wonderful! 1627719;1489609170;mircea_popescu;kinda what angelina jolie tried, anyway. 1627720;1489609188;danielpbarron;well she's not saved. she can't do anything good. 1627721;1489609199;mircea_popescu;but the point remains, notwithstanding how poorly it worked for that particular idiot, that there's a lot worse fates than being a 30something successful repented whore. 1627722;1489609242;danielpbarron;a repented whore would be ahead of 99.9999% of the world that's for sure 1627723;1489609257;danielpbarron;!~bible isa 64:6 1627724;1489609258;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Isaiah 64:6 :: But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. 1627725;1489609278;danielpbarron;"filthy rags" better translated as "rags of menstruation" 1627726;1489609295;mircea_popescu;so then it's not even a bad strategy for the 16yo brighter-than-average highschool girl, http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ 1627727;1489609297;danielpbarron;ie: good deeds done by people who don't believe is seen as disgusting to God 1627728;1489609309;mircea_popescu;as per aquinas, "let me repent and let it be tomorrow", she'll do jus' fine. 1627729;1489609328;trinque;!~bible mark 7:15 1627730;1489609329;jhvh1;trinque: [KJV] Mark 7:15 :: There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 1627731;1489609337;trinque;I guess that checks out lol 1627732;1489609337;danielpbarron;could die at any moment. i'd say it's not worth the risk, but most people go to hell so it's anybody's guess 1627733;1489609345;mircea_popescu;whoa. faggotry is ok per mark ?! 1627734;1489609349;trinque;aha 1627735;1489609361;danielpbarron;context is re: food, ie: kosher law 1627736;1489609369;mircea_popescu;so he can eat the cocks ? 1627737;1489609369;danielpbarron;or no, washing hands rather 1627738;1489609372;trinque;says nothing 1627739;1489609376;trinque;not no food 1627740;1489609378;mircea_popescu;ah so just handjobs 1627741;1489609430;mircea_popescu;i wonder if "things which come out of him" includes spit. 1627742;1489609465;mircea_popescu;what if one pops his own zits and eats the proceeds ? 1627743;1489609476;danielpbarron;it means the things he says because they come from the heart 1627744;1489609483;danielpbarron;words 1627745;1489609516;mircea_popescu;hm 1627746;1489609551;danielpbarron;the things you eat get destroyed in the stomach, but the things you say, they come from you, and if they are bad things that you say, it means there is something bad in you 1627747;1489609591;mircea_popescu;better hope people use proper languages rather than whatever barbar.jpg to speak. 1627748;1489609721;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron that theory suffers from not having ever eaten corn kernels neh ? 1627749;1489609855;danielpbarron;heh 1627750;1489610647;mircea_popescu;incidentally, am i the only one wondering why the everloving fuck the ustards keep pretending sex is something dubious and hard to distinguish etc, when every single fucking cell of the organism carries, very strictly, the code on it ? it's either xx or xy, stop bitching and whining, there's NO ambiguity. none. 1627751;1489610658;mircea_popescu;"oh but mp, what about mongoloids". yeah, really. 1627752;1489610796;diana_coman;everything is hard to distinguish when one has only vague approximations instead of definitions (because clear definitions are too harsh; and not inclusive enough! etc) 1627753;1489610848;mircea_popescu;a right there is that. 1627754;1489618579;trinque;!!up BU_lulz 1627755;1489618579;deedbot;BU_lulz voiced for 30 minutes. 1627756;1489618606;trinque;what lulz do you bring, BU_lulz ? 1627757;1489618637;BU_lulz;just getting lots of lulz from the BU community lately 1627758;1489618652;trinque;well, do share. 1627759;1489618690;BU_lulz;just the fact that their was a bug in their protocol that brought down 90% of their nodes 1627760;1489618702;BU_lulz;i know it's petty, but I do love seeing shillz get rekt 1627761;1489618719;BU_lulz;not to say there aren't segwit shillz 1627762;1489618727;trinque;http://qntra.net/2017/03/bitcoin-altcoin-unlimited-experiences-drop-in-node-count-due-to-remote-crash-vulnerability/ << aha, davout qntra'd that one already 1627763;1489618731;BU_lulz;but it is def a different calliber of insanity 1627764;1489618750;BU_lulz;yeah not new news :) 1627765;1489618775;BU_lulz;really just wanted to listen to what the trilema folks were talking about 1627766;1489618791;BU_lulz;easier to connect and eavesdrop then click through the logs 1627767;1489618831;mircea_popescu;"Bitcoin Unlimited is a full Bitcoin client and is an alternative to the original Bitcoin Core client. It offers high levels of security, privacy, and stability." quoth the roger ver mfa. 1627768;1489618891;BU_lulz;i really want roger ver to go away like gavin 1627769;1489618891;asciilifeform;was this the one that downloaded blacklist from mike hearn's tor onion ? or was that a previous idiocy 1627770;1489618903;BU_lulz;each statement he makes outcringes the last 1627771;1489618916;mircea_popescu;i think that was "bitcoin classic" 1627772;1489619057;BU_lulz;u guys think the usg is pumping alt coins lately? 1627773;1489619090;BU_lulz;like I have no faith in ethereum, dash, etc but I can't help but feel printed money is being thrown at them 1627774;1489619157;BU_lulz;i've been tempted to try to make a penny off the pumps, but the principled side of me has kept me from stooping to that level of derp 1627775;1489619232;trinque;the printed money can dribble from whichever tentacle, eh? 1627776;1489619251;mircea_popescu;what isn't paper money being thrown at ? 1627777;1489619287;BU_lulz;good point, that's probably mostly what is giving BTC it's current market cap 1627778;1489619332;trinque;anyhow, who are you, BU_lulz ? 1627779;1489619402;BU_lulz;meh, just some dude who knows one of the regulars here through a friend 1627780;1489619413;BU_lulz;not trying to get deep into the WOT or anything 1627781;1489619424;BU_lulz;just felt like dropping in 1627782;1489619464;ben_vulpes;!!down BU_lulz 1627783;1489619479;ben_vulpes;get in the wot or get right the fuck out 1627784;1489619503;trinque;haw 1627785;1489619584;ben_vulpes;has the stones to "make a vpn" whatever that means to the average bu tard, but not to make a key and get in the wot 1627786;1489619631;ben_vulpes;subhuman trash 1627787;1489619948;asciilifeform;cheapo, single-barreled ninjashotgun. 1627788;1489620261;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: you mean robert viragh ? 1627789;1489620267;asciilifeform;in the generic. 1627790;1489620284;asciilifeform;it's a type of vermin. 1627791;1489620863;mircea_popescu;dude (mullvad)'s been following since forever. 1627792;1489620903;asciilifeform;!#s mullvad 1627793;1489620904;a111;2 results for "mullvad", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mullvad 1627794;1489620921;mircea_popescu;Jan 25 02:21:50 * novusordo (~wut@dns.mullvad.net) has joined #bitcoin-otc << that's feb 2012. 1627795;1489620931;asciilifeform;ain't that a vpn co ? 1627796;1489620961;mircea_popescu;ah is it ? 1627797;1489620980;asciilifeform;https://www.mullvad.net >> 'World-class, online privacy ...' 1627798;1489620996;asciilifeform;as in fact ben_vulpes noticed earlier. 1627799;1489621012;mircea_popescu;i just thought it was one dude with an obscure web service. who knows. 1627800;1489621028;asciilifeform;no indication that he is anything other than a subscriber 1627801;1489621032;asciilifeform;to 'mullvad' 1627802;1489621035;mircea_popescu;fair point. 1627803;1489621055;mircea_popescu;the allotment of identity to the peons is a largely irrelevant if entirely complex business. 1627804;1489621083;asciilifeform;it's not even like memory will leak if you forget to free() them. 1627805;1489621102;asciilifeform;(or world will melt if you do it twice) 1627806;1489621468;ben_vulpes;reject the wot, even humorously, at your own risk. 1627807;1489621504;ben_vulpes;question will now float, "which 'regular' didn't beat elementary manners into his wannabe vassals?" 1627808;1489621541;danielpbarron;hah i was thinking "hope it's not me he's referring to" 1627809;1489621545;mircea_popescu;lol 1627810;1489621551;mircea_popescu;i wouldn't put too much stock. 1627811;1489621569;asciilifeform;in unrelated noose, 'nqb' reads & parses a full 1MB block, with 2218 tx, and recreates it from fast-form, again to disk, in 0.123 sec. on a 3GHz opteron cum ssd. 1627812;1489621581;mircea_popescu;ah that's not bad at all. 1627813;1489621582;ben_vulpes;next time someone says "i know a feller", next question is "which feller?" 1627814;1489621592;mircea_popescu;"oh nobody in particular" 1627815;1489621605;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: well that's merely the mechanical process, no tx index queries, no scriptolade use. 1627816;1489621633;mircea_popescu;aha. 1627817;1489621636;mircea_popescu;still. 1627818;1489621659;ben_vulpes;i know in point of fact that i've demonstrated how candidates for voice are to introduce themselves before. 1627819;1489621661;asciilifeform;fuzzed it, in various ways, ada bounds checking worx like a champ in all cases 1627820;1489621698;asciilifeform;(every variable knows what its expected range is, and said bounds are checked on any assignment) 1627821;1489621700;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes i dunno bout you, but erry time i went after hours to nominally girls only student whore warehouse facilities i was there to "visit my cousin" and when crashing a party it'd be a case of "you've got my sister in there, now do i have to get a cop." 1627822;1489621730;mircea_popescu;relations are cheap in anonworld. 1627823;1489621747;ben_vulpes;these ebon pillars don't like that. 1627824;1489621766;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: wtf is an ebon pillar 1627825;1489621785;ben_vulpes;columns variously ionic and dorian, made of ebony 1627826;1489621791;mircea_popescu;i suspect it's a reference ot that most best read trilema piece, teh la zuleika 1627827;1489621813;ben_vulpes;^ 1627828;1489621850;mircea_popescu;which incidentally - has been read TODAY by more people than read ALL of marcel proust's works since the making of gutenberg.org 1627829;1489621854;ben_vulpes;epic pile btw, i don't believe for a second 4chan has worked through it yet. 1627830;1489621866;*;asciilifeform still cannot help but think that a zuleika oughta be an obsolete musical instrument, something like a cross between a zurna and a жалейка 1627831;1489621866;mircea_popescu;i suppose if author of finnigan's wake inquires, i've never read it now. 1627832;1489621887;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform maybe a digeridoo 1627833;1489621937;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes had you read the original ? 1627834;1489622018;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 0.067 sec. btw is the avg, 0.123 was fluke. 1627835;1489622107;*;danielpbarron is on the last leg of that story 1627836;1489622141;*;mircea_popescu is taking a grim sort of pleasure in the observation that it takes about as long to read as it took to write. 1627837;1489622182;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sorta like the block!111 1627838;1489622188;mircea_popescu;lol for srs. 1627839;1489631756;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: it was a pleasure doing business http://www.contravex.com/pete-takes-home-bacon/ 1627840;1489631771;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/AjuTa#selection-431.0-431.167 1627841;1489631917;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: that's a new one. not too long either if i skip translating the 102 comments 1627842;1489633811;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: ack 1627843;1489636181;ben_vulpes;http://i.imgur.com/9DS6FnX.gifv 1627844;1489636301;pete_dushenski;tough kid 1627845;1489636373;ben_vulpes;methinks most of the crying was cut out 1627846;1489636413;pete_dushenski;quite possibru 1627847;1489636539;pete_dushenski;speaking of verbotten ajakalates, d-tx jessica farrar has just proposed a draft law that would see "emissions outside of a woman's vagina, or created outside of a health or medical facility" to carry a $100 fine 1627848;1489636646;trinque;chick's trolling re: abortions 1627849;1489636648;pete_dushenski;at this point, it's hard to tell if the dems know that they're muslims or if they still think "acting doesn't count" 1627850;1489637883;pete_dushenski;in geert wilders news, his pvv (freedom) party is looking like it'll grab the second most seats in the 150-seat dutch parliament with... 19. crazy fractured system. italy / israel level. then again, these figures are "according to exit polls" which are worth as much as hillary "looking past the election". should be a lively night if all the dutch nate silvers get similarly thumped. 1627851;1489640590;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1627852;1489640598;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1245.64, vol: 4927.83216688 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1234.884, vol: 7233.92993 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1237.3, vol: 20023.39124335 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1150.295892, vol: 2884.93650000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1235.001, vol: 3420.12491942 | Volume-weighted last average: 1231.18823237 1627853;1489640629;BingoBoingo;Butt Trust In The Market 1627854;1489653610;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627403 <<< pl0x to kindly point out 1627855;1489653610;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 16:12 asciilifeform: also if you have a consistent empty 4GB of memory, you can apply my cache patch (not yet an official vpatch, but it is a 1liner, ups bdb's cache to max) 1627856;1489663639;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski yeah, bothared people that one. 1627857;1489663808;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1627847 <--> https://archive.is/J8UvN#selection-747.2072-747.2153 1627858;1489663808;a111;Logged on 2017-03-16 03:55 pete_dushenski: speaking of verbotten ajakalates, d-tx jessica farrar has just proposed a draft law that would see "emissions outside of a woman's vagina, or created outside of a health or medical facility" to carry a $100 fine 1627859;1489664288;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5430D04B21F3EE28C51D7E1867FF1BCCBE4E8BF96D45617959BA1E68E225521B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 34085713 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '67.49.219.148 (ssh-rsa key from 67.49.219.148 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (cpe-67-49-219-148.socal.res.rr.com. US) 1627860;1489664322;mircea_popescu;lolwut 1627861;1489672242;asciilifeform;in other noose : https://archive.is/rJh3G >> march 14: 'Amazon has removed three books that deny the Holocaust ... Robert Rozett, a senior official at Yad Vashem, Israel’s official memorial to Holocaust victims, wrote to Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos last month calling for immediate action specifically regarding the three books. Rozett calls the move a “positive first step” which shows Amazon listens to Jewish groups that protest Amaz 1627862;1489672243;asciilifeform;on’s sale of these offensive materials.' 1627863;1489672277;asciilifeform;'World Jewish Congress CEO Robert Singer thanked Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos for his action on Thursday . “We are also gratified to note Amazon removed numerous other Holocaust-denying items from its website. ...' 1627864;1489672467;asciilifeform;in yet-other but not wholly unrelated noose, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/6podN/?raw=true >> mr.t's revised immigration order canceled by judge in... hawaii. 1627865;1489672502;asciilifeform;on -- get this -- 'separation of church and state' grounds. 1627866;1489672504;asciilifeform;didjaknow. 1627867;1489672550;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo et al ^ qntra ? 1627868;1489673735;mircea_popescu;hardly. 1627869;1489673776;asciilifeform;hardly which ? 1627870;1489673862;mircea_popescu;the idle posturing of anon femstate hardly worth the mention. 1627871;1489673965;asciilifeform;mr.t did put himself in the buggery pose when he proclaimed intent to 'comply with judicial orders' or how was it. 1627872;1489673986;asciilifeform;so far no uppity judges on meathooks, afaik. 1627873;1489674004;mircea_popescu;eh, so called judge, so called state, interest wanes eventually. 1627874;1489674034;mircea_popescu;but yes, obnoxious indian on meathook. you missed last week ? 1627875;1489674071;asciilifeform;afaik every potus fires the previous one's prosecutors 1627876;1489674085;asciilifeform;and for some reason this one took ~2 mo. to flush 1627877;1489674091;mircea_popescu;the correct move is chaser piece about the situation of an unemployable 40something ex-da who can't find work now ; rather than indulging reboot of idle posturing 1627878;1489674108;mircea_popescu;we're not interested in pushing the "oh, here's a replacement cockroach". rather, insistent footage of cockroach corpses./ 1627879;1489674204;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am by now convinced that once so-called judge corpses start floating on the east river your retort will be "so what, everyone dies eventuallyt and everything ends up in a river eventually". which is fine and great for you, but makes for HORRIBLE qntra. because it's so indescribably fucking stupid, and because it's so indescribably fucking stupid in the exact manner that produced usg. 1627880;1489674275;mircea_popescu;in any case, the republican narrative is "bitcoin classic failed", not "let's talk about the latest reboot of the idiot franchise". an' thats what qntra does. 1627881;1489674277;asciilifeform;all i got is the view from inside the anthill. where mr.t's buttons are in fact not connected to anything, because apparently even the lowliest judicial bureaucrat can 'suspend' all of his decrees for whatever fictional 'reasons'. 1627882;1489674293;mircea_popescu;mno. 1627883;1489674348;mircea_popescu;all you got is the view FROM INSIDE YOUR HEAD. because if i push you re anthill it'll immediately become obvious the last time you picked up a girl i nthe street was never, and similarily for any other quanta of interaction. 1627884;1489674358;mircea_popescu;evidently portion of that head has serious issues. 1627885;1489674376;asciilifeform;i dun recall ever claiming to pick up anything whatsoever in the street.. 1627886;1489674393;asciilifeform;( aside from coins on sidewalk ) 1627887;1489674475;mircea_popescu;so how are you participating in the anthill ? gimme something. you... go on the subway and talk to people ? use cabs, talk to the drivers ? work in an office ? take the sluts to the campus and have them make out with random girls ? what, exactly, is the light illuminating this anthill ? 1627888;1489674552;asciilifeform;cabs. and at one point worked in dire shitholes of various descriptions. but what point is there describing any of it, mircea_popescu will still insist that 'none of it describes the Actual anthill, you gotta have a private intel agency of 10,001 cutthroat sluts to know Reality!11' 1627889;1489674578;mircea_popescu;understand how consequences work : you can't at the same time "oh, nobody even told be item from my field of interest" and "oh i see from anthill". either you do or you don't, and broadly speaking i guess you don't. 1627890;1489674600;mircea_popescu;hey, it stands to reason that poll of 10 is not as good as poll of 10k neh ? 1627891;1489674659;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu had said 'you won't learn the mechanics of su collapse by reading pravda or decrees of politburo' i would grudgingly agree 1627892;1489674669;mircea_popescu;happens to als obe true 1627893;1489674689;mircea_popescu;now, if one ~already understood~ the mechanics, then one could have a lot of fun, and in the process also produce a lot of interesting commentary by reviewing ther pravda. 1627894;1489674695;mircea_popescu;but before, when one's trying to make predictions ? 1627895;1489674738;mircea_popescu;tell you waht : each one of the loser intellectual class, the people whose daughters ended up powering the first wave of fat-based cuntindustrialization (where you hydrolize people to get economy going, you know) were ALL avid readers of the pravda 1627896;1489674751;mircea_popescu;and in the same exact manner, "cynical" and "woke" "independent minds". 1627897;1489674765;mircea_popescu;this independent mind trick dun work so well in vacuums, most people aren't nearly imaginative enough to pull it off. 1627898;1489674780;asciilifeform;i won't argue ' asciilifeform knows Moar Fact from reading völkischer beobachter than mircea_popescu from spy network ', that'd be riotously stupid 1627899;1489674789;asciilifeform;but mircea_popescu is stingy re the concretes, and asciilifeform likes concretes. 1627900;1489674792;mircea_popescu;also not the main thrust here. 1627901;1489674825;mircea_popescu;again : the loser intellectual class of the 1990s su, those people who would have had the means if only they had the sense, those people who were in fact smarter, and in fact more cultivated, and in all relevant aspects save one more capable than the aparatchicks who stole the show 1627902;1489674833;mircea_popescu;all have this in common : they read and commented the pravda. 1627903;1489674889;mircea_popescu;bitterly, but distantly. ironically, if you will. self-awaredly "skeptical". this methodology does not work. it anti-works. 1627904;1489674960;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there was a name for this, 'kitchen intellectuals' 1627905;1489675120;mircea_popescu;yes, well... 1627906;1489675131;mircea_popescu;it dun work. why would i have qntra do it again ? i know it doesn't work. 1627907;1489675144;mircea_popescu;fucking female state doesn't get to set the agenda for the discussion. 1627908;1489675153;asciilifeform;this was actually what was in my head when qntra first appeared, 'why do this' 1627909;1489675167;asciilifeform;asciilifeform for instance went for years reading ~no noose at all. 1627910;1489675263;asciilifeform;'female state' will go away when physically disassembled, not by effort of folx talking, for and against. 1627911;1489675283;mircea_popescu;has nothing to do whatsoever with "talking for or against". 1627912;1489675301;asciilifeform;has to do with the observation re kitchen intellectuals 1627913;1489675309;asciilifeform;or 'resistance through culture' in mircea_popesculandia 1627914;1489675318;asciilifeform;the folx who had 0 to do with disassembling su 1627915;1489675320;mircea_popescu;the ~only point of "organised female resistance" is that it de facto constitutes a lulzcow herd. they can be milked for lulz. that is the only utility, from obama to the last famished "evangelist" out there. 1627916;1489675371;mircea_popescu;and no, no physical dissassembly required. the moment the ~only response "worried woman" encounters in household is one thin layer of mockery backed by an endless layer of physical punishment, the su not only goes away but actually becomes impossible. 1627917;1489675382;mircea_popescu;which is how that transition worked, and how all other transitions worked. 1627918;1489675403;mircea_popescu;the path from empire to republic traverses the river of worry, and the bridge is made of qntra and qntra-likes. 1627919;1489675430;asciilifeform;this is not unlike to say that 'if the only response tumour cell encounters in the organism is an army of killer tcells, there can be no cancer.' well yes. 1627920;1489675431;mircea_popescu;which don't discuss "worry, for or against". they discuss "worry, lulz" and other things. 1627921;1489675439;mircea_popescu;yes. 1627922;1489675682;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not related, but gotta ask before mircea_popescu goes back to sleep, (believe or not) i just today noticed that duplicate coinbases actually existed. 1627923;1489675689;asciilifeform;and are cemented into the 'grandfather's pistol' 1627924;1489675711;asciilifeform;and that replacement of 'spent' tx is even permitted still. 1627925;1489675740;mircea_popescu;when's the oldest you found ? 1627926;1489675775;asciilifeform;november 2010 1627927;1489675798;mircea_popescu;they in principle became impossible at some point once people figured out this hole. 1627928;1489675812;asciilifeform;this is not an original discovery, there's a magic case for it in trb 1627929;1489675817;mircea_popescu;yes. 1627930;1489675829;asciilifeform;but it only applies the rule after certain timestamp of block 1627931;1489675830;mircea_popescu;dating from about mid 2010 if memory serves. 1627932;1489675863;asciilifeform;and the 'unless those are already completely spent' thing substantially complicates, if not prevents, a sane indexing scheme 1627933;1489675888;mircea_popescu;prototype. 1627934;1489675934;asciilifeform;so if you make a 'tx that has same hash as ANY known tx to date which != this tx' you have broken the pistol, forked from the old semantics. 1627935;1489675971;asciilifeform;* is invalid 1627936;1489675994;asciilifeform;if you reject incoming tx (in a block , in particular) that overwrites old 'spent' one, you have broken the pistol. 1627937;1489676053;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0968 << the routine in question. 1627938;1489676184;asciilifeform;the 'unless spent' is riotously idiotic, it means that a txid does NOT, even today, guarantee to uniquely identify a tx. 1627939;1489676215;asciilifeform;(making the id entirely worthless, and dragging in the worst of both worlds, you now ALSO have to remember the position. why not ONLY store the position ?!) 1627940;1489676296;mircea_popescu;yup 1627941;1489676309;mircea_popescu;this is at the core of the argument in favour of a trb-i implementation. 1627942;1489676338;mircea_popescu;and what is meant when people such as me say bitcoin's a pos and what it was meant when i told the power ranger tards to fix it or get killed years ago 1627943;1489676357;asciilifeform;it doesn't look to be fixable. 1627944;1489676360;asciilifeform;and i don't mean trb 1627945;1489676363;asciilifeform;i mean, the algos. 1627946;1489676403;mircea_popescu;hm ? 1627947;1489676430;asciilifeform;the way i read ln. 968, miners TODAY are apparently more than welcome to create a duplicate coinbase, so long as it is a dupe of a ~spent~ coinbase. 1627948;1489676441;asciilifeform;(968 - 985) 1627949;1489676450;mircea_popescu;there's no way to avoid collisions. 1627950;1489676469;asciilifeform;there's 1 way -- if you send in an anything that collides with a previous ANYTHING, you are told to fuck off. 1627951;1489676475;mircea_popescu;other than the hope "they won't be many" (recall the naive oh, if we need we just add more digits after decimal ? hurr. you fucking don't.) 1627952;1489676491;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that means there's a cap on total txn bitcoin will ever process 1627953;1489676498;mircea_popescu;and it's the fuck lower than 32bits. 1627954;1489676512;asciilifeform;sha256 gives you... 256 neh 1627955;1489676516;asciilifeform;where do you get 'lower than 32' 1627956;1489676547;mircea_popescu;well you'rte going to start getting collisions way before you used up every possible txid 1627957;1489676559;asciilifeform;there are not 256bits of seconds left of sun , even. 1627958;1489676613;mircea_popescu;still not a very pretty scheme. 1627959;1489676628;asciilifeform;will become a detectable problem somewhere around 128b's worth. also quite likely long past expiration date of planet3. 1627960;1489676667;asciilifeform;but let's for sake of argument suppose that : sooner. it is STILL moronic to STORE COLLIDING KEYS IN DB omfg 1627961;1489676673;asciilifeform;it isn't ever a solution, to anything ! 1627962;1489676704;asciilifeform;keys motherfucking unique, ruat caelum. 1627963;1489676712;mircea_popescu;im not arguing THAT lel. 1627964;1489676744;*;mircea_popescu points out wholly disinterestedly at this point that the eponymous mpfhf allows for variable length output, and could be made to do say log (blockheight) bits! 1627965;1489676771;asciilifeform;it, and keccak, and probably other schemes 1627966;1489676795;asciilifeform;the neat thing being, that on Collision Day, you can retro-stretch all of the previous hashes 1627967;1489676804;mircea_popescu;now, i do propose that it is actually better to have undefined-sized indexen than to have colliding txn or "limited to x bits" txn count. 1627968;1489676821;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform quite. 1627969;1489676826;asciilifeform;there is no such thing as an O(1) undefined-size index. 1627970;1489676834;asciilifeform;and it is NOT acceptable to have non-O(1) indexing. 1627971;1489676837;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it'd be defined for periods. 1627972;1489676853;mircea_popescu;it's 64 bits until year 13500 and 128 bits from there on until year 1mn etc 1627973;1489676866;mircea_popescu;you know, just like unixtime works. 1627974;1489676868;asciilifeform;these, work 1627975;1489676882;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1627976;1489676897;asciilifeform;'see 8th bit for whether you have ONE MOAR BYTE of crud coming your way' does not. 1627977;1489676910;mircea_popescu;im not arguing THAT lel. 1627978;1489676916;asciilifeform;right. 1627979;1489676934;asciilifeform;but possibly now mircea_popescu sees what asciilifeform meant by 'trbi is much EASIER problem than working-trb' 1627980;1489676952;mircea_popescu;oh, i saw. 1627981;1489677032;asciilifeform;also it is not clear to me that trb ever... worked, in the customary sense of the word. what, for instance, happens if you actually carry out the -- entirely legal per all known btctrons -- replacement of a ~spent~ coinbase tx ? 1627982;1489677040;asciilifeform;now you have mutilated the history. entirely legally. 1627983;1489677147;mircea_popescu;o btw asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/WxOXa/?raw=true 1627984;1489677186;mircea_popescu;i suppose that was a hook intended for some kind of anonimization thatnever made it in. 1627985;1489677783;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: got it ! 1627986;1489678103;asciilifeform;sooo per my reckoning, you can have sane-trb-indexer, but now every tx gotta have a field for 'was replaced?' -- and if bit is set, indexer goes and looks at the collision table, the previous lookup now 'didn't count' 1627987;1489678132;mircea_popescu;aha. 1627988;1489678414;mircea_popescu;in other news, camembert, lomo horneado + boiled corn on the cobb, primo breakfast a++ would breakfast again 1627989;1489679904;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: also it is not clear to me that reorgs actually handle this case 1627990;1489679942;asciilifeform;a reorg will remove the overwritten tx entirely 1627991;1489679984;mircea_popescu;if it's not in the new chain you mean ? 1627992;1489679991;asciilifeform;aha 1627993;1489680090;mod6;hm. 1627994;1489680107;mircea_popescu;well yes. 1627995;1489680125;mircea_popescu;do you mean, "it removes transaction entirely but it doesn't nor could correcty undo the damage to the ball of yarn" ? 1627996;1489680131;asciilifeform;aha 1627997;1489680134;mircea_popescu;quite. 1627998;1489680135;asciilifeform;it removes it from ~index~ 1627999;1489680155;asciilifeform;now the proceeds of the old, spent coinbase, can no longer be spent 1628000;1489680163;asciilifeform;because their parent coinbase is no longer in tx index 1628001;1489680172;asciilifeform;they appear now to have dropped from mars. 1628002;1489680204;mircea_popescu;wait, how would a later tx make it in. 1628003;1489680239;asciilifeform;which later tx 1628004;1489680263;mircea_popescu;the one whose parent coinbase you discuss. 1628005;1489680297;asciilifeform;let's work example. say, for sake of argument, block 500,000 has coinbase B; 500,001 - coinbase C, C!=B; 500,002. 1628006;1489680311;mircea_popescu;aite 1628007;1489680356;asciilifeform;500,001 contains a tx T1, that spent B. 1628008;1489680370;asciilifeform;now 500,002 can have coinbase B again. 1628009;1489680419;asciilifeform;now picture that this 3-block sequence gets orphaned. 1628010;1489680437;mircea_popescu;go on 1628011;1489680455;asciilifeform;actually no 1628012;1489680474;asciilifeform;let's picture that 500,001 and 500,002 end up orphaned, strictly. 1628013;1489680481;mircea_popescu;so restate. and also spare me specifications that c ain't b, obviously it isn't, if it were you'd call it b. 1628014;1489680500;asciilifeform;aite, let's from beginning: 1628015;1489680548;asciilifeform;block 500,000 has coinbase B; 500,001 - coinbase C, 500,002 : B again. now 500,001 and 500,002 end up orphaned. the reorg fires. 1628016;1489680560;asciilifeform;B is removed from the tx index. 1628017;1489680572;asciilifeform;now coinbase of 500,000 is missing from the index, and is unspendable. 1628018;1489680585;mircea_popescu;this is however not how it works in practice 1628019;1489680591;asciilifeform;what did i miss 1628020;1489680591;mircea_popescu;i suspect there's some crutch code somewhere. 1628021;1489680644;asciilifeform;i read the code, again and again, and it would seem like 968-984 is the whole of the crutch. and in classic nsa style, the comment misdirects the reader to think that the 'bug' was 'fixed'. 1628022;1489680653;asciilifeform;whereas it was not, but merely papered over. 1628023;1489680669;mircea_popescu;does it regenerate the index on reorg firing ? 1628024;1489680689;asciilifeform;well, lessee : http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1028 : 1628025;1489680915;asciilifeform;they get queued for removal ; 1628026;1489680919;asciilifeform;eventually we end up here : http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0754 1628027;1489681014;asciilifeform;which it where it gets interesting, because the 'can fail' doesn't seem to exist in the code: 1628028;1489681023;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/db.h?v=makefiles#0114 1628029;1489681034;asciilifeform;^ do you see a check for previous existence here, mircea_popescu ? because i don't... 1628030;1489681077;asciilifeform;( called from http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/db.cpp?v=makefiles#0352 ) 1628031;1489681091;mircea_popescu;not right off. 1628032;1489681242;asciilifeform;even the comment on ln 756-7 is nonsensical, 'This is only possible if this transaction was completely spent, so erasing it would be a no-op anway.' in what universe is erasing the ancestor of a valid tx a 'no-op' ? 1628033;1489681257;asciilifeform;i suppose in the one where nobody revalidates the chain, ever ? 1628034;1489681273;mircea_popescu;gavin wasn't very high on chain validation hurr. 1628035;1489681724;asciilifeform;it gets worse: 1628036;1489681748;asciilifeform;say i walk in with a tx that spends the output of d5d27987d2a3dfc724e359870c6644b40e497bdc0589a033220fe15429d88599 1628037;1489681753;asciilifeform;now which one did i spend !!! 1628038;1489681760;asciilifeform;http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/91812#d5d27987d2a3dfc724e359870c6644b40e497bdc0589a033220fe15429d88599 1628039;1489681761;asciilifeform;or 1628040;1489681765;asciilifeform;http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/91842#d5d27987d2a3dfc724e359870c6644b40e497bdc0589a033220fe15429d88599 1628041;1489681766;asciilifeform;? 1628042;1489681780;asciilifeform;they're both unspent ! 1628043;1489681819;asciilifeform;what's the actual balance of 16va6NxJrMGe5d2LP6wUzuVnzBBoKQZKom anyway 1628044;1489681835;asciilifeform;is there even a consistent way to calculate it ? 1628045;1489681863;asciilifeform;the heathens think it to be 50 btc : https://blockchain.info/address/16va6NxJrMGe5d2LP6wUzuVnzBBoKQZKom 1628046;1489681868;asciilifeform;( on what basis ? ) 1628047;1489682092;asciilifeform;( or, say, http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/91722#e3bf3d07d4b0375638d5f1db5255fe07ba2c4cb067cd81b84ee974b6585fb468 and http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/91880#e3bf3d07d4b0375638d5f1db5255fe07ba2c4cb067cd81b84ee974b6585fb468 ) 1628048;1489682138;asciilifeform;did we have this thread before ? ( doesn't seem to turn up ) 1628049;1489682162;asciilifeform;!#s 91812 1628050;1489682163;a111;1 result for "91812", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=91812 1628051;1489682169;asciilifeform;!#s 91842 1628052;1489682170;a111;1 result for "91842", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=91842 1628053;1489682177;asciilifeform;!#s 91722 1628054;1489682178;a111;1 result for "91722", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=91722 1628055;1489682185;asciilifeform;!#s 91880 1628056;1489682185;a111;1 result for "91880", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=91880 1628057;1489682189;asciilifeform;^ apparently not. 1628058;1489682212;asciilifeform;unless it was in ye olde otc or whatever folx inhabited in the olden dayz. 1628059;1489682880;asciilifeform;another tickle : what'll happen if someone were to mine a block that 1) has a coinbase equal to one of these magical coinbases + 2 ) spends same ? 1628060;1489682908;asciilifeform;as i understand, it will validate, in trb. 1628061;1489682972;asciilifeform;.. or, hm, maybe not 1628062;1489684162;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: revisiting the boojum: block 500,000 has coinbase B. it was spent, many cities are built on the outputs, time passes, world forgets. yeas later, dr. evil mines a block ~600,000~ , now again having B. ( he does not need to know any keys for this, can just copy the tx. ) then he sets his minetron to start again from 599,999. succeeds in orphaning block 600,000 . reorg fires. B now gets removed from the index db ! and a 1628063;1489684162;asciilifeform;ll of its descendants ! 1628064;1489684168;asciilifeform;world burns in nuclear forkocalypse. 1628065;1489684227;mircea_popescu;he'd be doing this by himself as block 60 (really, why all the 0s ? you need them for something ?) which doublespends block 50 won't be accepted by eg me. 1628066;1489684238;asciilifeform;the 0s represent 'future' 1628067;1489684246;asciilifeform;vs 'current' or past. but regardless 1628068;1489684246;mircea_popescu;yes yes 1628069;1489684271;asciilifeform;it doesn't doublespend 50* 1628070;1489684281;asciilifeform;50* was spent, and per trb rules, garbagecollected from the index 1628071;1489684297;asciilifeform;it's a brand-new, legit coinbase, with same hash. entirely permitted. 1628072;1489684315;asciilifeform;then when it gets orphaned, it also nukes the original. 1628073;1489684332;mircea_popescu;from the index. 1628074;1489684338;asciilifeform;correct 1628075;1489684353;mircea_popescu;and then he wants to re-introduce original. but he can't. because doublespent. 1628076;1489684353;asciilifeform;there are no doublespends involved, just a massive bomb 1628077;1489684388;asciilifeform;trb as it exists , permits a new tx having same hash as old, so long as old one was spent. 1628078;1489684402;asciilifeform;so nobody needs to introduce a double-spend for this horror to work. 1628079;1489684438;asciilifeform;the result is an arbitrarily long chain of beheaded tx 1628080;1489684451;asciilifeform;because their parent coinbase gets zapped from the index illegitimately 1628081;1489684456;mircea_popescu;mkay. 1628082;1489684634;asciilifeform;now for the practical consequence. what this means, as far as i can tell, is that there can exist -- may already exist -- chains of tx in trb, that cannot be walked back to a coinbase. 1628083;1489684689;mircea_popescu;let's see the practical consequence where you simmer the fuck down and stop oversignalling by a factor of fifty trillion ONCE!!! in your life! one ounce work ten bushels sky is falling good god. 1628084;1489684707;mircea_popescu;so. coinbase C1 part of tx T1 is included in block 1. 1628085;1489684726;mircea_popescu;later on the output of T1 is spent by T2 in block 2 1628086;1489684741;asciilifeform;ignoring the maturity rule, but sure 1628087;1489684744;mircea_popescu;even later on, coinbase C2 with same hash as C1 is introduced in block 3. 1628088;1489684760;mircea_popescu;then, block 3 is orphaned. this wipes any mention of C1/C2's hash from index. 1628089;1489684764;asciilifeform;aha 1628090;1489684781;mircea_popescu;should dr evil attempt to re-mine C1 as part of T3 in block 4, this will fail, because T1 still exists in blockchain 1628091;1489684790;mircea_popescu;index or no index. 1628092;1489684812;asciilifeform;t1 exists, but is now 'martian', parentless 1628093;1489684815;mircea_popescu;the ~exact~ ~specific~ ~pinpoint-for-me-in-lxr-or-bust~ mechanism of this is not specified. 1628094;1489684856;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it's an absence, not a presence, of code, how do i point to an absence ? 1628095;1489684920;mircea_popescu;well, you can either try to replicate this, if you wish, irl, or else show a case in blockchain where it happened, after 2011, or else simmer down and keep digging. 1628096;1489684929;mircea_popescu;you got a good point, but it's just part of the story as-is. 1628097;1489684934;mircea_popescu;not that i'm proposing the insanity is sane. 1628098;1489684937;asciilifeform;probably will have to replicate it on a toy planet. 1628099;1489684941;asciilifeform;(solipsist miner.) 1628100;1489684962;mircea_popescu;you're welcome to do it any of the three ways, but rly nao. 1628101;1489684976;asciilifeform;is likely the easiest demo. 1628102;1489685065;asciilifeform;( would have to fudge the difficulty on the toy planet, or alternatively remove the time parameter from http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0977 , but otherwise doable ) 1628103;1489685102;mircea_popescu;altogether not a bad idea to make a set of test chains as per the tsting discussion last week. this can surely be both part of it and the incentive to do it. 1628104;1489685127;asciilifeform;iirc ben_vulpes set up a similar experiment ( lan miner ) a month or so ago, but i dun recall what came of it 1628105;1489685196;mircea_popescu;in other news, http://static.tumblr.com/6939a00d5cc18ed5e74eba13001fc4d8/af3igoa/IGIo4hva2/tumblr_static_tumblr_static_652rvgdy65ssk0ocogg0w8c0s_focused_v3.gif 1628106;1489685208;asciilifeform;the imho most tickling part re the hypothesis, is that the symptom would not necessarily leave any permanent sign in the mainchain blockchain 1628107;1489685250;asciilifeform;it would instead manifest as one or more chains of tx that a trb node -- a particular one, that saw the particular magic orphan -- mysteriously does not want to spend the outputs of. 1628108;1489685262;asciilifeform;(will not accept a block where they are spent) 1628109;1489685279;asciilifeform;this could, potentially, account for some wedges observed in the wild. in theory. 1628110;1489685393;mircea_popescu;yes, but it was never verified in practice. 1628111;1489685397;asciilifeform;not afaik. 1628112;1489685429;asciilifeform;very much Open Problem 1628113;1489685429;mircea_popescu;now, the cost to mine a same-hash tx that is also meaningful other than garbage is not trivial. 1628114;1489685452;asciilifeform;you forgo the mannafromheaven from mining the block, aha 1628115;1489685465;asciilifeform;but it isn't hard to do otherwise, just recycle old coinbase 1628116;1489685472;asciilifeform;(take the tx verbatim) 1628117;1489685481;mircea_popescu;that will not wash because doublespent. 1628118;1489685493;asciilifeform;nope. you take one that's been spent. 1628119;1489685501;asciilifeform;coinbases all have input 0 1628120;1489685513;mircea_popescu;one that's been spent has been spent. ergo is a doublespend. 1628121;1489685515;asciilifeform;and are exempt thereby from 'doublespent because input was spent' rule 1628122;1489685519;asciilifeform;0 is never spent omfg 1628123;1489685536;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry, you're trying to recreate a coinbase as in, miner subsidy ? 1628124;1489685556;asciilifeform;aha, the first tx in a block 1628125;1489685562;asciilifeform;the one that has input 0 1628126;1489685568;asciilifeform;and its script -- ignored. 1628127;1489685580;asciilifeform;whole thread was about these. 1628128;1489685581;mircea_popescu;okay. so basically you want a miner to mine twice to the same address. right ? 1628129;1489685588;asciilifeform;correct 1628130;1489685593;asciilifeform;as in the 2 linked examples on mimisbrunnr 1628131;1489685598;mircea_popescu;and this will ALWAYS resut in coinbase in this sense with same hash. 1628132;1489685603;asciilifeform;correct 1628133;1489685608;mircea_popescu;and also has happened >10k times to date. 1628134;1489685612;asciilifeform;see the links, it will become very clear 1628135;1489685619;mircea_popescu;now. a block with these gets reorged. ALSO happened 100s of times to date. 1628136;1489685620;mircea_popescu;so ? 1628137;1489685644;asciilifeform;so you end up with a parentless tx in the index. 1628138;1489685651;mircea_popescu;good for you. 1628139;1489685664;mircea_popescu;except no, you don't, not irl. 1628140;1489685670;asciilifeform;show me why not ? 1628141;1489685695;mircea_popescu;you're a fine gent, standing on a pile of "because so and so, the sky is falling." "well... i don't see it fallen" "show me why not!" 1628142;1489685702;asciilifeform;it doesn't fall, as such 1628143;1489685712;asciilifeform;you just have a 'i can't believe it's not bitcoin' rather than bitcoin. 1628144;1489685718;asciilifeform;can't show provenance for all unspents. 1628145;1489685726;mircea_popescu;so of these tens of thousands of same-hash coinbases, which were hundreds if not thousands of times reorged, which is the parentless coinbase ? 1628146;1489685742;davout;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1628087 <<< C2 == C1 here? 1628147;1489685742;a111;Logged on 2017-03-16 17:19 mircea_popescu: even later on, coinbase C2 with same hash as C1 is introduced in block 3. 1628148;1489685744;asciilifeform;^ this is a question that can be answered exactly , using a patched trb 1628149;1489685756;asciilifeform;it is going on the conveyor mircea_popescu . 1628150;1489685784;mircea_popescu;aite. 1628151;1489685878;asciilifeform;btw this thread is unpleasantly reminiscent of , e.g., asciilifeform's conversations with his elderly parents , re thebezzle. 'look outside, sky not fallen, not moved a centimetre, you idiot' 1628152;1489685910;asciilifeform;what's a bezzle if not a sky held up by invisible column of farts and nobody-would-think-of-plane-as-rocket. 1628153;1489685925;mircea_popescu;let's not get ahead of ourselves. 1628154;1489685967;davout;mircea_popescu: seems coinbase needs same address but also same extraNonce to compute to same hash, you probably overestimate the actual txid collision count 1628155;1489685978;mircea_popescu;davout possibly. 1628156;1489685989;mircea_popescu;unlike elderly parents, was giving benefit of teh theory. 1628157;1489686362;asciilifeform;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=0.10.0rc4#1670 << this is pretty great, prb turns 91842/91880 into a special case ! 1628158;1489686367;asciilifeform;but 0 mention of any other pairs 1628159;1489686427;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform actually look up that bip30 thing, it's related. 1628160;1489686428;asciilifeform;they cut out the time parameter, and replaced with this 1628161;1489686466;asciilifeform;so a prb user can be fucked during sync, so long as the fuckblock fed to him isn't numbered 91842 or 91880 ... 1628162;1489686516;mircea_popescu;it's actually how the whole "not match earlier nonspent txn" got added. the author is the death row inmate peter wuille. 1628163;1489686534;mircea_popescu;https://archive.is/mFrzM 1628164;1489686535;asciilifeform;https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0030.mediawiki << found it earlier, prior to thread, but the lulzy bit is that their 'solution' is not a solution 1628165;1489686584;asciilifeform;'Fully-spent transactions are allowed to be duplicated in order not to hinder pruning at some point in the future. Not allowing any transaction to be duplicated would require evidence to be kept for each transaction ever made.' 1628166;1489686593;asciilifeform;^ PRUNING 1628167;1489686596;asciilifeform;motherfuckers. 1628168;1489686612;asciilifeform;prune their ears, nose, arms, legs, cocks. 1628169;1489686623;asciilifeform;ling-chi. 1628170;1489686640;mircea_popescu;yeswell. 1628171;1489686665;asciilifeform;it's a textbook mircea_popescuan tv-raft. 'can't fix the problem, That Would Be Wrong, have a raft made of your tv to float on; 1628172;1489686832;asciilifeform;astonishing how much retardation flows from this one little turd, the use of hashes (rather than positions) as tx pointers. 1628173;1489686929;asciilifeform;if you had to write, e.g., (91722,1,1) instead of (e3bf3d07d4b0375638d5f1db5255fe07ba2c4cb067cd81b84ee974b6585fb468, 1) to spend an output -- none of this would be a thing. 1628174;1489687086;davout;no more spending before confirmed then 1628175;1489687099;asciilifeform;davout: FUCK spendingbeforeconfirmed. 1628176;1489687110;asciilifeform;it is retarded and makes for 'orphanages' and O(N^2) verifications. 1628177;1489687126;asciilifeform;trb, i will note, already will not relay any attempt to spend anything not already in a block. 1628178;1489687148;davout;just saying, chill 1628179;1489687174;asciilifeform;unfortunately , per grandfather's pistol , a tx ~in~ a block can spend the output of another, in same block; so verification of block tx is O(N^2) but the N is the count of tx in the block. 1628180;1489687232;davout;i'm not sure i grokked your 'casks' scheme, but if i understood what i did correctly positions would somehow be pre-allocated for transactions, making this possible again, right? 1628181;1489687249;asciilifeform;davout: it doesn't even require the cask scheme 1628182;1489687262;asciilifeform;you can do it with a system otherwise identical to traditional bitcoin 1628183;1489687275;asciilifeform;with the difference being, that you can ONLY refer to a position in an existing block, and never to a tx hash. 1628184;1489687288;asciilifeform;(which would only be calculated for the merkle root, and for no other purpose) 1628185;1489687309;davout;don't see how, as far as i know you can't craft a tx without providing the tx of its parents 1628186;1489687312;asciilifeform;^ likewise it is unclear to me why to even have a merkle tree, and not hash the tx one after another. but that's a separate thread. 1628187;1489687332;asciilifeform;davout: right ! want to make a tx ? know the indices of the outputs you're using. 1628188;1489687353;asciilifeform;and yes that means they have to live in a block, that you're reasonably sure won't be orphaned. 1628189;1489687355;asciilifeform;tough cookies. 1628190;1489687381;trinque;seems like blocks because they're otherwise makework to have block reward in while empty 1628191;1489687384;davout;i don't particularly care, just wondering about "you can do it with a system otherwise identical to traditional bitcoin" 1628192;1489687397;asciilifeform;davout: you can ! 1628193;1489687415;asciilifeform;simply by not catering to the patently idiotic expectation of being able to spend the output of a tx that hasn't been mined yet. 1628194;1489687604;davout;you can't have this in bitcoin is all i'm saying 1628195;1489687648;asciilifeform;davout: definitionally not, bitcoin has marvels such as being able to annihilate a coinbase from tx index using a (local! nobody but your node has to see it) reorg. 1628196;1489687677;davout;as mentioned a few lines earlier in the log 1628197;1489687683;asciilifeform;because it was built by somebody who was dropped as a baby, and uses tx id as if it were guaranteed unique, then turns around and 'oops, they aren't, but it doesn't matter Because Reasons' 1628198;1489687724;davout;the lulzy part is actually this: http://r6.ca/blog/20120206T005236Z.html 1628199;1489687731;davout;"let's not name bitcoin" 1628200;1489687743;asciilifeform;lol!! 1628201;1489687755;asciilifeform;where'd you dig this up, davout ? 1628202;1489687758;asciilifeform;'midas money' srsly ? 1628203;1489687843;davout;i just click on random shit 1628204;1489687848;davout;see http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0973 1628205;1489687849;asciilifeform;looks like it describes exactly the scenario in this thread. and wuille sat down with his handler and asked, 'how do we 'solve' this but without actually solving it? hmm' 1628206;1489687862;asciilifeform;oh hah it was right there wasn't it. 1628207;1489687863;asciilifeform;lol 1628208;1489687881;asciilifeform;davout's eagle eye. 1628209;1489688330;davout;"Duplicate coinbases already exist in the Midas Money block chain." <<< fucking priceless 1628210;1489688501;asciilifeform;davout: as i understand, the attack described in 7th paragraph, with the transplanted tree, would still work today. 1628211;1489688542;asciilifeform;and wuille's thing does 0 against it. 1628212;1489688554;asciilifeform;in fact, studiously avoids doing anything. 1628213;1489688591;davout;it's very unclear to me 1628214;1489688606;davout;say there is a coinbase A in block 10 1628215;1489688618;davout;same coinbase gets included in block 20 1628216;1489688629;davout;block 20 gets reorg'd 1628217;1489688634;asciilifeform;if you can re-introduce an old coinbase -- which you can , if it has been spent, per trb rules -- you (or anyone else) can afterwards reintroduce any and all tx that had that coinbase as an input 1628218;1489688639;davout;coinbase A is now unspendable 1628219;1489688677;davout;wouldn't it consider the reintroduction as "already spent" ? 1628220;1489688697;asciilifeform;davout: correct, but only tells half of the story. it is unspendable in the sense that whoever mined the original A, is left to be sad. but A can be reintroduced now. and with it, all of the tx that used it as an input. 1628221;1489688714;asciilifeform;davout: it would not, because A is not 'marked spent', it does not exist in the index at all after the reorg. 1628222;1489688714;davout;there are two cases here 1628223;1489688720;asciilifeform;so it merely needs to get mined again. 1628224;1489688724;davout;hang on 1628225;1489688765;davout;in case where A was ~never~ spent, after a block containing its reintroduction gets reorg'd, it can't ~ever~ be spent 1628226;1489688776;davout;as i understand it, since it's removed from the index 1628227;1489688793;asciilifeform;davout: correct. and recall, reorg is a local, rather than global, phenomenon 1628228;1489688802;davout;but it's not clear to me how exactly this works when the first introduction of A was spent 1628229;1489688803;asciilifeform;my nodes, for instance, reorged in different places than mircea_popescu's 1628230;1489688810;davout;aha, right 1628231;1489688840;davout;forkatronic this is. 1628232;1489688844;asciilifeform;davout: per current trb rules (which , see earlier, is different from prb's ! even) A gotta be spent before it can reappear. 1628233;1489688893;davout;i didn't see this "has to be spent before reappear" 1628234;1489688920;asciilifeform;davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1627937 1628235;1489688920;a111;Logged on 2017-03-16 14:54 asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#0968 << the routine in question. 1628236;1489688960;asciilifeform;davout: carefully read this routine and follow the calls all the way down, or this thread will make ~0 sense 1628237;1489689004;davout;aha, so this: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1628225 is not actually possibru 1628238;1489689004;a111;Logged on 2017-03-16 18:26 davout: in case where A was ~never~ spent, after a block containing its reintroduction gets reorg'd, it can't ~ever~ be spent 1628239;1489689020;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform> davout: FUCK spendingbeforeconfirmed. << yeah pretty bad idea in retrospect. 1628240;1489689686;ben_vulpes;enTIREly unrelated, does anyone know how to get gpg to decrypt a message that is also signed, but to produce the signature in addition to saying that the signature is good? 1628241;1489689741;mircea_popescu;haha. 1628242;1489689748;mircea_popescu;there's reasons we don't like the sign-and-encrypt bs. 1628243;1489689794;*;ben_vulpes sighs 1628244;1489689812;asciilifeform;natively gpg doesn't even ~carry~ the notion of 'for this set, Message, Signature, Pubkey, say if well-formed' 1628245;1489689819;asciilifeform;you can hack it into existence vtron-style 1628246;1489689832;asciilifeform;(nuke the keychain idiocy) 1628247;1489689884;mircea_popescu;you can extract packets but basically end up re=implementing gpg. 1628248;1489689927;ben_vulpes;coooool 1628249;1489690127;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: you want whole signature contents in cleartext? ya may be difficult with stock gpg. otherwise there's `--list-packets` 1628250;1489690284;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: dude how does --list-packets help at all 1628251;1489690315;mircea_popescu;lol 1628252;1489690328;ben_vulpes;i guess i can --verbose and get the mpi values? 1628253;1489690335;ben_vulpes;greeeaaaaat 1628254;1489690337;Framedragger;wasn't sure what you were trying to do, sorry - you want to first decrypt a message, *then* check signature - but check how beyond 'signature is good'? 1628255;1489690348;ben_vulpes;no i want to see the fucking signature 1628256;1489690365;ben_vulpes;checking could possibly be a thing after 1628257;1489690402;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes for bonus points, check if it checks beyond "short fp matches" 1628258;1489690444;ben_vulpes;fuck, buddy 1628259;1489690462;ben_vulpes;would really like that stateless verificator 1628260;1489690469;mircea_popescu;aha. 1628261;1489690491;davout;ben_vulpes: only a terrorist would want to see the signature 1628262;1489690518;danielpbarron;txt | clearsign | encrypt # but why?? 1628263;1489690634;ben_vulpes;danielpbarron: come again? 1628264;1489690657;mircea_popescu;he's just piling on you an' your sadness. 1628265;1489690675;ben_vulpes;i didn't understand his shovelful, is all 1628266;1489690691;trinque;he proposes stuffing the sausage in a sock 1628267;1489690711;ben_vulpes;in other modern obfuscutronix: http://68.media.tumblr.com/fe0a9af4b1b9f48bd034fc8b6eb57298/tumblr_omtld1OkHV1u0x24bo1_1280.jpg 1628268;1489690740;mircea_popescu;that's not even a bad idea. 1628269;1489690742;mircea_popescu;#eulora ftw. 1628270;1489690817;danielpbarron;secret message in keys on the ground 1628271;1489690877;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: sorry for being obtuse, but if by 'show signature' you mean print signature in ascii-armored way, why can't you `echo 'foo' | gpg --clearsign > a.txt`, then `cat a.txt | gpg --encrypt --recipient recipient-username > b.bin`, then `gpg --decrypt b.bin`? (this assumes gpg is interactive and will ask for password, so best to break it into multiple commands) 1628272;1489690881;mircea_popescu;lel 1628273;1489690883;Framedragger;but i'm prob missing somthin 1628274;1489690909;mircea_popescu;Framedragger he just got a pile of encrypted-and-signed crap. how does he get message and signature now. 1628275;1489690919;danielpbarron;i really like the implied sig of the encrypt part of received message back to sender. that way neither party can hold signed material against the other in public 1628276;1489690974;mircea_popescu;a sort of ad-hoc !!v-ing i guess. works. 1628277;1489691060;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: ah ok, i guess the issue is that the sig is part of binary blob, need to convert it, etc, hrmh 1628278;1489691074;mircea_popescu; you can extract packets but basically end up re=implementing gpg. 1628279;1489691115;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: what mircea_popescu said: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1628240 1628280;1489691115;a111;Logged on 2017-03-16 18:41 ben_vulpes: enTIREly unrelated, does anyone know how to get gpg to decrypt a message that is also signed, but to produce the signature in addition to saying that the signature is good? 1628281;1489691149;davout;in other GPG-related lulz, when I decided to give the kraken idiots a chance, i ticked the "Encrypt mail sent to me with GPG" and gave my key 1628282;1489691149;davout;and so I received my first deposit notification or whatever, which was indeed encrypted. 1628283;1489691254;*;ben_vulpes on tenterhooks for punchline 1628284;1489691260;davout;it did not occur to these monkeys that somehow it might also make sense to ~not~ include a subject line reading "O HAI YOU HAZ X DEPOSIT KTHXBYE" 1628285;1489691267;ben_vulpes;bwahaha 1628286;1489691493;mircea_popescu;ahaha 1628287;1489691504;mircea_popescu;alf would like this story. 1628288;1489691684;ben_vulpes;danielpbarron: yeah, but falls apart if i want to hold onto a signed thing. 1628289;1489691725;ben_vulpes;don't get me wrong, responding in context is entirely adequate most of the time 1628290;1489694966;asciilifeform;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67738.0 << vintage lulzfest re 'bip30' 1628291;1489695057;mod6;<+davout> it did not occur to these monkeys that somehow it might also make sense to ~not~ include a subject line reading "O HAI YOU HAZ X DEPOSIT KTHXBYE" << lol, huuurrrr 1628292;1489695150;asciilifeform;'The list of all used transactions isn't readily available, and once pruning shows up, it might not even exist at all. So, it only makes sense to compare the new coinbase to the list of transaction hashes that are unspent at the time ... ' << holy fuck the 1) idiocy 2) nobody challenged it, afaik 1628293;1489695156;asciilifeform;pruning for fucks sake. 1628294;1489695159;asciilifeform;srsly ? 1628295;1489695202;davout;as a naive question, what exactly is the problem with pruning? 1628296;1489695220;mircea_popescu;mpoe-pr didn't have "dev" talk on her list and who else read that shithole lol. 1628297;1489695231;davout;i see not being able to serve historical data to peers as the major one from where i stand 1628298;1489695235;mircea_popescu;davout in principle nothing ; in practice if you can't justify whence the coins came then what do you have 1628299;1489695253;asciilifeform;davout, mircea_popescu : a 'pruned' bitcoin ~= usd. 1628300;1489695260;mircea_popescu;"these coins were mined not printed, plox believe" ? 1628301;1489695278;asciilifeform;if you cannot show a coinbase origin for EVERY coin that ever existed, you have printolade. 1628302;1489695296;davout;your copy of the blockchain being personal i don't see any other problem than peer-service, if, and only if, you've validated it as validly producing the UTXO set you consider valid 1628303;1489695299;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not in principle. see for instance http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-27#1619177 1628304;1489695299;a111;Logged on 2017-02-27 16:56 mircea_popescu: but the correct trb-i might just as well end up this situation where block reward is 1mn bitcoin, and it dies within 1mn blocks. so all mining does is produce ~ a lease ~ on a chunk of bitcoin. and the value of old bitcoin is monotonically decreasing over their lifetime. 1628305;1489695313;mircea_popescu;davout nonsense. 1628306;1489695323;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: demurraging coin fails the berlin wall test. 1628307;1489695332;asciilifeform;nobody in his right mind would use it , having any kind of choice. 1628308;1489695350;mircea_popescu;i'm not proposing the solution is acceptable. i am showing you that your OVERSTRONG STATEMENT is nonsense. 1628309;1489695363;mircea_popescu;the defense to something stupid isn't picking something else that's stupid to be yelled at top of lungs. 1628310;1489695390;asciilifeform;the solution whereby tx id is unique for all eternity, is not stupid. it is the Right Thing. 1628311;1489695405;mircea_popescu;that's entirely unrelated here. 1628312;1489695486;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: even in your demurraging scheme , you would not thereby be able to safely recycle tx id. 1628313;1489695504;mircea_popescu;as to the direct question, a pruned chain may make sense, if someone came up with a way to do it sanely. this seems impossible on bitcoin-as-it-is, and perhaps unlikely in the general. 1628314;1489695510;asciilifeform;there is nor cannot be such a thing where a fortranesque '1 := 2' produces a consistent state. 1628315;1489695524;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd say that the idea is impossible in the general case. 1628316;1489695539;mircea_popescu;why ? 1628317;1489695556;asciilifeform;'where did this money come from, how much exists in total' 'dunno, in the Great Pruning of 2050 the scrolls of the ancients were lost' 1628318;1489695562;davout;mircea_popescu: how is it nonsense if i have personnally verified the chain? 1628319;1489695569;mircea_popescu;it'd necessarily be a scheme with expiring coins, seems to me. 1628320;1489695578;asciilifeform;davout: what does 'verify' mean if you can't trace the coins from birth to current day ? 1628321;1489695586;mircea_popescu;davout because who the fuck are you and why do i have to take your word and if your house burns down what do you do. 1628322;1489695620;davout;i contend that verifying "once" is not that different from "verifying at will" 1628323;1489695631;mircea_popescu;why are you married ? 1628324;1489695640;trinque;if the whole net is trimming how am I with a new node going to verify once 1628325;1489695640;mircea_popescu;you verified her once amirite ? 1628326;1489695656;davout;mircea_popescu: nobody's asking you to trust someone on his word, to each his own chain copy 1628327;1489695662;trinque;gotten where? 1628328;1489695690;asciilifeform;^ 1628329;1489695715;mircea_popescu;if you can't verify at will, you can't verify. 1628330;1489695850;davout;doesn't really matter where you get it from, as long as it verifies, you're not asking your connected peers for a wot identity, yet you take their data and verify it independently 1628331;1489695865;mircea_popescu;... 1628332;1489695872;asciilifeform;davout: if you aren't storing the historical data, you are not a peer. you are a pseudonode. 1628333;1489695882;asciilifeform;that mooches off the network, while there still are actual nodes. 1628334;1489695887;davout;trinque: "if the whole net is trimming" <<< that seems like a valid objection to me 1628335;1489695899;*;trinque erases his pending restatement of ^ 1628336;1489695900;trinque;lol 1628337;1489695918;mircea_popescu;i'm not even sure what the thought process is here, beyond "i don't want to store books because momstate makes libraries and oh, where did anything but cosmo go ?!" 1628338;1489695943;davout;asciilifeform: yeah, sure you're not serving peers the historical data, that's the single thing that seems very wrong with pruning, at least to me 1628339;1489695957;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the thought process is that every clever kid wants to 'и рыбку съесть, и на хуй сесть' (tm) 1628340;1489695972;mircea_popescu;what data is there OTHER than "the historical data" ? 1628341;1489695982;mircea_popescu;this delusion of contextless existence, "i am me" hurr. 1628342;1489696007;asciilifeform;davout : mircea_popescu has it. your hypothetical 'pruned' utxo set is one bitflip away from ???. 1628343;1489696018;davout;google translate doesn't exactly help: "et le poisson à manger, et assis sur la bite" 1628344;1489696032;trinque;surely that wasn't 'every clever kid wants a fish to eat and a cock to sit upon' ? 1628345;1489696033;davout;asciilifeform: yes 1628346;1489696035;trinque;lol 1628347;1489696050;asciilifeform;trinque, no, 'to eat the fish AND to sit down on the cock' 1628348;1489696055;asciilifeform;i dunno of an engl. equivalent 1628349;1489696068;davout;"eat your cake, have it too"? 1628350;1489696074;asciilifeform;means wanting two individually-feasible but contradictory items 1628351;1489696083;asciilifeform;davout: i suppose that works 1628352;1489696085;trinque;aha 1628353;1489696125;asciilifeform;and 'i want to not have printolade exist' and 'i want not to have to buy new hdd every year' is such a pair. 1628354;1489696143;asciilifeform;there is no way to compress infinite string into finite space. 1628355;1489696183;mircea_popescu;no but consider. we currently have the situation where lucentio of pisa comes to padua, and inquires, "who owns these houses ?" and gets answer "x, y, z, k" and then inquires "oh yeah ? how do i know that ?" and gets answer, "because they bought from endless list tracing back to the dude that built them". 1628356;1489696199;mircea_popescu;and this situation you wish to replace with "because we say so, and if you don';t like it ask another one of us". 1628357;1489696212;mircea_popescu;to which the only sane lucentio answer is "fu, i own them, and if you don't like it ask me." 1628358;1489696226;mircea_popescu;which is EXACTLY how it works : blockchain replacement now costs the whole weight of 400k blocks. 1628359;1489696236;mircea_popescu;blockchain replacement in a "pruned" scheme costs... whatever your pruning interval is. 1628360;1489696237;mircea_popescu;wtf. 1628361;1489696312;asciilifeform;proponents of 'pruning' want to replace 'the weight of 400k blocks' with a promisetronic 'checkpoint list'. which, i imagine the game plan is, to eventually include deviations from the usual proof of work, per gavin's unabashed declaration where 'WE say what the blocks were' 1628362;1489696319;asciilifeform;and ethertard-style proscriptions, etc. 1628363;1489696366;trinque;any "bitcoin on muh smart watchz" notions... things not capable of bitcoinating can connect to something that is, and ask 1628364;1489696369;trinque;over a private channel, even 1628365;1489696482;asciilifeform;it's precisely how all successful usgizations went -- slow, frogboiling replacement of a protocolic guarantee with a promisetronic one that is Just As Good (until it isn't, at which point you're long fucked) 1628366;1489696549;trinque;thing wants something like 50Gb per year; couple of terabytes and you're good for a long time. 1628367;1489696553;davout;i'm merely looking for things i'd have missed apart from "being unable to serve peers historical data is a dealbreaker" 1628368;1489696570;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i see no need for the subertfuge. if tomorrow thing is pruned to include "last 1k blocks" i'll just mine a 1k long chain in which everyone donates their coin to me, and bomb all the miners who refuse to mine on it. pie. 1628369;1489696570;trinque;whole thing doesn't even have to be SSD; I routinely shuffle off chunks of bdb to platters 1628370;1489696582;davout;which is basically what everything that has been said regarding pruning boiled down to 1628371;1489696607;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/#selection-109.0-109.416 is clear enopugh 1628372;1489696612;trinque;davout: it goes the other way too 1628373;1489696643;trinque;say someone comes at you with blocks further back than your prune, and you are compelled to accept them by hash rate 1628374;1489696652;trinque;can't even say they ~ever~ were a part of bitcoin 1628375;1489696657;trinque;you have nothing to base it upon 1628376;1489696675;trinque;so you either ignore and maybe you're forked off to nowhere land, or you accept, and blindly 1628377;1489696722;davout;trinque: in that particular case what criterion would you refuse them upon if you had the full chain anyway? 1628378;1489696740;mircea_popescu;"txn don't match what i have" 1628379;1489696748;asciilifeform;davout: from where does this 'full chain' come from ? martians deliver it to your house ? 1628380;1489696780;asciilifeform;where was it in the meantime ? 1628381;1489696785;mircea_popescu;currently, blockchain is a ~whole~ story which has to check out. this can be verified. a partial story can never check out, and consequently can never be verified. 1628382;1489696793;trinque;davout: I'm saying spurious blocks claiming a very old parent block 1628383;1489696817;asciilifeform;davout: understand, anyone who runs a node that cannot or will not produce 'historical' record ~from genesis up to currentheight~ is an attacker. doing his own small bit to nail bitcoin . 1628384;1489696834;mircea_popescu;quite. 1628385;1489696843;asciilifeform;if you have enough of these, bitcoin per se becomes a very questionable proposition 1628386;1489696849;asciilifeform;and the concept of 'the' blockchain -- fades. 1628387;1489696889;asciilifeform;this was the subject of mircea_popescu's keccak article 1628388;1489696892;asciilifeform;which i thought was pretty clear 1628389;1489696896;trinque;number of nodes with full chain approaching number of nodes which can collude approaches Modern Banking (TM) 1628390;1489696910;asciilifeform;aha. 1628391;1489696911;asciilifeform;visaisation. 1628392;1489696967;mircea_popescu;bitcoin really doesn't have that many nodes active, nor has, for a while now. 1628393;1489697004;asciilifeform;once you learn how few nodes are actually nodes -- your bowels, will quiver. 1628394;1489697008;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what'd the usg love more than for it to fade! to become "technologies"! to etc. 1628395;1489697033;asciilifeform;sorta the whole thrust of gavinism, neh 1628396;1489697043;asciilifeform;silently replace the protocol with promise. 1628397;1489697056;mircea_popescu;the "alternatives" narrative. a deep matter, going all the way to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624181 1628398;1489697056;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 14:50 Framedragger: i like my rc airplanes. "the will of history necessitates you to X" has a marx'ified hegelian vibe :p 1628399;1489697073;mircea_popescu;it's apparently the most deeply cherished delusion, of the young-man-and-his-biddle, that "alternatives!!1" 1628400;1489697076;mircea_popescu;there's no fucking alternatives. 1628401;1489697077;davout;asciilifeform: the "full chain" thing is simply in the context of asking a clarification to the question 1628402;1489697096;asciilifeform;davout: this is pretty fundamental material, imho, it is 'what separates us from the monkeys' (tm) 1628403;1489697100;mircea_popescu;davout you happy with teh responses ? 1628404;1489697135;mircea_popescu;young-man-and-his-binlde* i mean 1628405;1489697144;davout;mircea_popescu: not really because i'm not particularly interested in discussing pruning from a position where i'm somehow supposed to defend it 1628406;1489697156;mircea_popescu;but ? 1628407;1489697191;davout;trinque: basically your point, which seems absolutely valid, is that past a certain depth you simply can't do a reorg, right? 1628408;1489697335;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it is, at that. 1628409;1489697430;davout;so yeah, i'm satisfied with the answers in the sense that i did not miss any particular argument against pruning 1628410;1489697477;mircea_popescu;sort-of like asking for particular arguments against cutting your own throat. 1628411;1489697510;mircea_popescu;it's safe to say you probably missed some PARTICULAR arguments ; but it's probably safe to say you did get the fundamental argument, which is : you do, you die. 1628412;1489697538;davout;i think pruning would compare better to cutting everyone's throat "just a little" bit than "cutting one's own throat" 1628413;1489697556;mircea_popescu;you can't prune my chain. you can only prune yours. 1628414;1489697560;asciilifeform;^ 1628415;1489697562;mircea_popescu;so... no. cutting own throat, all the way. 1628416;1489697593;mircea_popescu;that the absence of such miracle dieters will scarcely be felt is true ; but not sure if that's relevant to you. 1628417;1489697623;davout;if "cutting one's own throat" == "not being able to reverify" i'll agree 1628418;1489697693;asciilifeform;davout: the fundamental fallacy is the notion that bitcoin, absent the 'ladder' of transactions from a valid coinbase to your particular unspentolade, is still in whatever sense 'bitcoin' 1628419;1489697696;asciilifeform;rather than an old candy wrapper. 1628420;1489697702;mircea_popescu;cutting own throat = "not able to participate in bitcoin" 1628421;1489698485;asciilifeform;!!up DaoSancho 1628422;1489698486;deedbot;DaoSancho voiced for 30 minutes. 1628423;1489698575;ben_vulpes;heh k that's a pretty good nick 1628424;1489698619;mircea_popescu;what is it ? 1628425;1489699024;ben_vulpes;well at first i thought it was a good pun on don sancho using the portugese dao, and punning on teh dao attacker 1628426;1489699511;ben_vulpes;pete_dushenski: pm 1628427;1489699512;davout;in other aerobatic news http://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3 1628428;1489699536;davout;"he aircraft encountered wake turbulence sending the aircraft in uncontrolled roll turning the aircraft around at least 3 times (possibly even 5 times), both engines flamed out, the Ram Air Turbine could not deploy possibly as result of G-forces and structural stress, the aircraft lost about 10,000 feet until the crew was able to recover the aircraft exercising raw muscle force" 1628429;1489699549;ben_vulpes;> sends business jet in uncontrolled descent 1628430;1489699550;ben_vulpes;SWEET 1628431;1489699559;davout;tl;dr: don't fuck with A380s 1628432;1489699629;ben_vulpes;> the aircraft received damage beyond repair and was written off 1628433;1489699631;ben_vulpes;WHOA 1628434;1489699656;davout;i had to double check, thought it was some kind of hoax 1628435;1489699676;ben_vulpes;davout: what means "recover the aircraft exercising raw muscle force"? 1628436;1489699689;ben_vulpes;manual control surface actuation? 1628437;1489699698;davout;that's my understanding too 1628438;1489699723;ben_vulpes;so get the bird into some sort of regime where you can air-start the turbines? 1628439;1489699753;davout;something different this 1628440;1489699769;davout;first: don't die immediately by recovering the aircraft 1628441;1489699785;davout;second: try to not die later by getting at least an angine back on 1628442;1489699793;davout;*engine duh 1628443;1489699830;ben_vulpes;dag 1628444;1489699833;veen;with both engines out and no ram air turbine you have no hydraulic pressure with which to do shit 1628445;1489699851;veen;literally get two guys on the yoke and start reefin' on it 1628446;1489699872;davout;pretty much 1628447;1489699914;veen;if you've ever turned off the ignition in your truck while rolling and tried to steer or apply brakes you know the feel 1628448;1489699945;davout;or, you know, flown a cessna 1628449;1489699999;veen;forces required to move cessna surfaces around within design envelope speeds are not significant, mechanical advantage is sufficient 1628450;1489700014;veen;no hydro system on it 1628451;1489700019;davout;you still feel it, that's the point 1628452;1489700043;ben_vulpes;i imagine the actuation forces in a hyraulicized biz jet are...larger 1628453;1489700049;asciilifeform;at least thing ~had~ mechanical linkage. picture a 'by wire' machine. 1628454;1489700053;asciilifeform;~= brick 1628455;1489700071;ben_vulpes;no mechanical backups in those? 1628456;1489700075;davout;asciilifeform: probably one of the x systems would have survived 1628457;1489700093;davout;ben_vulpes: i think some don't 1628458;1489700099;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: nope. joystick in, e.g., f16, or airbus, is ~exactly same as toy joystick 1628459;1489700112;asciilifeform;0 mechanical link to the surfaces. 1628460;1489700121;davout;imagine an A380 on mechanical force, what would the point be? 1628461;1489700127;veen;anyway lesson here is that heavy, slow, and high-drag config means shoving a metric fuck ton of air around, and said airmass remains energized for a long while 1628462;1489700150;asciilifeform;davout: you can lift a house with hand-cranked mechanical force, just takes time 1628463;1489700165;asciilifeform;rome was built with hand-cranked (foot-operated, really) cranes 1628464;1489700178;davout;veen: you're usually not slow and in high-drag configuration at FL350 1628465;1489700186;asciilifeform;so entirely conceivable to have airbus with mechanical linkages still worth something minus hydraulic pump 1628466;1489700211;davout;i somehow just don't see it 1628467;1489700226;ben_vulpes;don't the megaplanes do the trick with the tiny flap that actuates the effecting flap? 1628468;1489700230;davout;i'll dig it, the question is interesting 1628469;1489700234;veen;aha 1628470;1489700269;veen;the man-handling happened at the helm of the challenger, much much smaller airframe 1628471;1489700273;davout;ben_vulpes: that rings a bell, not a mega-planes specialist, yet 1628472;1489700301;ben_vulpes;davout: aiui, nobody cranks the effecting surfaces around, but uses a small flap to do so. 1628473;1489700318;ben_vulpes;and then they hit mechanical stops, eg 0, 1, 2, 3 1628474;1489700336;ben_vulpes;precisely so that losing power doesn't mean instadeath 1628475;1489700343;ben_vulpes;but i am not a big bird specialist 1628476;1489700345;ben_vulpes;no tv in my house 1628477;1489700377;davout;ben_vulpes: looks like the a380 doesn't have purely mechanical backups, which makes sense, only electric ones: http://www.fzt.haw-hamburg.de/pers/Scholz/dglr/hh/text_2007_09_27_A380_Flight_Controls.pdf 1628478;1489700435;davout;bear with my temporary incompetence, still working on air law 1628479;1489700566;ben_vulpes;interdasting 1628480;1489702156;mircea_popescu;basically this was a case of business jet yachting. 1628481;1489702205;mircea_popescu;conceivably the nobel prize committe could confer on them the auld mug. 1628482;1489702736;pete_dushenski;in other news, i'm happy to report that i've successfully run alf's wire patch. hooray!1 1628483;1489703909;mircea_popescu;lmao, the libertards are nao in "plox don't expect evidence for that trump-russia thing" mutual grooming mode. 1628484;1489704107;mircea_popescu;meanwhile at the other end of "our democracy" female state, https://www.quora.com/What-is-best-way-to-get-traffic-for-new-Hindi-blog 1628485;1489704519;Framedragger;got an email, "Kraken opens Melon (MLN) trading" 1628486;1489704520;Framedragger;> Melon is a protocol for managing digital assets that is decentralized, modular, transparently auditable, and low cost 1628487;1489704520;Framedragger;> Melonport, the company behind Melon, had a very successful Initial Coin Offering (ICO), hitting its target of 227,000 ETH 1628488;1489704520;Framedragger;ok 1628489;1489704590;asciilifeform;'initial coin offering' lol 1628490;1489704625;Framedragger;i was getting incredulous with the first sentence description but my worries were soothed after reading that they're built on ethereum and that they had an I C O 1628491;1489704748;asciilifeform;in other lulz, even though preet is out, preet-style lulzindictments of folx nowhere near usgistan, are still a thing : https://cryptome.org/2017/03/dokuchaev-001.pdf ( turdalicious fax scan, no plain text available yet afaik ) 1628492;1489704802;asciilifeform;https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-charges-russian-fsb-officers-and-their-criminal-conspirators-hacking-yahoo-and-millions << from horse's mouth, some plain text. 1628493;1489704818;asciilifeform;'A grand jury in the Northern District of California has indicted four defendants, including two officers of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB), for computer hacking, economic espionage and other criminal offenses in connection with a conspiracy, beginning in January 2014, to access Yahoo’s network and the contents of webmail accounts.' 1628494;1489704819;mircea_popescu;heh now THAT is going away only with the physical dismemberment of the beast. 1628495;1489704856;asciilifeform;preet 'жил жив и будет жить' !111 1628496;1489704889;mircea_popescu;let's not exaggerate. 1628497;1489704901;asciilifeform;'Belan had been publicly indicted in September 2012 and June 2013 and was named one of FBI’s Cyber Most Wanted criminals in November 2013. An Interpol Red Notice seeking his immediate detention has been lodged (including with Russia) since July 26, 2013. Belan was arrested in a European country on a request from the U.S. in June 2013, but he was able to escape to Russia before he could be extradited. Instead of acting on the U.S. g 1628498;1489704901;asciilifeform;overnment’s Red Notice and detaining Belan after his return, Dokuchaev and Sushchin subsequently used him to gain unauthorized access to Yahoo’s network.... ' << where is the indictment of the idiot woman ? 1628499;1489704904;asciilifeform;what'shername 1628500;1489704907;asciilifeform;the 'ceo'. 1628501;1489704943;mircea_popescu;yeah, i have nfi why teh putin isn't flooding the usg with red notices for usgtards. 1628502;1489704961;mircea_popescu;possibly that nobody gives a shit. 1628503;1489705225;pete_dushenski;belan was on cover of one of the sections of the local paper this morning. flexing his tatted muscles in mirror selfie. article referenced how '22yo dropped out of school but was seen on instagram flashing wads of 100s, driving fast cars, drinking grey goose(!), and posing with girls in tight dresses(!!)' 1628504;1489705275;mircea_popescu;uh 1628505;1489705335;mircea_popescu;wtf, flavoured vodka ? what is wrong with people. 1628506;1489705354;pete_dushenski;myeah. rcmp took credit too. independent authority!!!1 1628507;1489705365;mircea_popescu;they really gotta hfcs all the things, don't they. it's not enough the difference between beer and fanta is the label. now gotta fuck up the liquors too don't they 1628508;1489705411;mircea_popescu;"Dramatic label. Frenchness. Premium exclusivity." are you FUCKING KIDDING ME ?~!?!?! you can buy it at thew supermarket! wtf exclusivity! 1628509;1489705414;pete_dushenski;grey goose has normal unflavoured variants. in mega-bottles (>2l) isn't the only 'flavour' available afaik 1628510;1489705430;pete_dushenski;s/it's/isn't 1628511;1489705453;pete_dushenski;dunno why anyone would pose with grey goose that wasn't 10l either 1628512;1489705457;trinque;it's the shit in every vegas hotel's bullshit snack locker 1628513;1489705457;mircea_popescu;!~google reserva san juan 1628514;1489705459;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Conac Reserva San Juan - Alimentos y Bebidas en Mercado Libre ...: ; Cognac Reserva San Juan - Alimentos y Bebidas en Mercado Libre ...: ; Reserva San Juan - Moniquirá | Proyecto Nuevo de Casas ...: (1 more message) 1628515;1489705472;mircea_popescu;!~google ron centenario anejo 1628516;1489705473;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Ron Centenario Anejo Especial | Total Wine & More: ; Ron Centenario Anejo Especial | Rum Ratings: ; Ron Centenario Anejo Rum "7": ABC Fine Wine & Spirits: 1628517;1489705486;mircea_popescu;ok. THAT's exclusive. not because it's expensive but because you can't fucking get it. 1628518;1489705548;mircea_popescu;"There is nothing smoother then this rum. I recommend everyone to get this. I bought it in Costa Rica for $45. It goes great with come." << bwahahaha that site. teh sluts know. 1628519;1489705736;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1628501 << same reason why people don't bite mosquitoes back. 1628520;1489705736;a111;Logged on 2017-03-16 22:55 mircea_popescu: yeah, i have nfi why teh putin isn't flooding the usg with red notices for usgtards. 1628521;1489705745;mircea_popescu;i do. 1628522;1489705762;asciilifeform;lolwut, with teeth ? 1628523;1489705773;asciilifeform;..with proboscis? 1628524;1489705795;mircea_popescu;on occasion. yes with teeth. i also pluck their legs and let them die. in general i torture a good half of all mosquitoes. 1628525;1489705825;*;asciilifeform takes off hat 1628526;1489705873;asciilifeform;the mosquitoes here in mosquitolandia are large, but apparently not quite the size of mircea_popescu's ( though at c3 i saw a great many mosquitoes, but 0 bit ! some sort of incompatibility..? ) 1628527;1489705880;mircea_popescu;i never bought into that "gotta be the better guy" theor.y 1628528;1489705894;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform maybe they just minded who you were with :D 1628529;1489705905;asciilifeform;dunno that it's about the 'better'. just that one has proboscis, the other does not 1628530;1489706103;mircea_popescu;i do ok. 1628531;1489706190;asciilifeform;i mean, who the hell cares if ru court indicts somebody. spain, germany, etc. won't extradite to ru. 1628532;1489706195;asciilifeform;~nobody does. 1628533;1489706205;mircea_popescu;i said red alerts bs 1628534;1489706208;mircea_popescu;"interpol" 1628535;1489706240;asciilifeform;incidentally how come 'nobody' cares that interpol was a nazi org ? 1628536;1489706262;mircea_popescu;it washed. 1628537;1489706266;asciilifeform;built by no less a man than heidrich. 1628538;1489706300;mircea_popescu;hey, nobody cares "our democracy" was built by no less a man than mussolini. 1628539;1489706379;asciilifeform;evola sold on amazon? tel aviv shits dodecahedral bricks; nazi kidnapping squad STILL AROUND, regenesisblocked -- snoar 1628540;1489706496;trinque;former had more to do with Bezos' own political signaling 1628541;1489706500;mircea_popescu;^ 1628542;1489706501;trinque;nobody "made" him 1628543;1489706518;mircea_popescu;i very much doubt any english speaker read enough evola to distinguish him from, whatever, eco 1628544;1489706559;asciilifeform;the last book burner who ~read~ the books, likely, died some time in 1500s 1628545;1489706701;danielpbarron;russia, check. tits, check. classic catch phrase, check! https://tjournal.ru/42043-ispolzovat-zhivotnih-v-eroticheskoi-reklame-eto-zoofiliya >> "The raccoon has come to expect that treats await him between a woman's breasts," the zoo says in a lawsuit 1628546;1489706736;mircea_popescu;bwahaha 1628547;1489706771;asciilifeform;'Снимая его рядом с обнажённой женщиной, ответчик нанёс вред популяции енотов. Теперь каждый, кто посмотрел данный ролик или фотографию, будет ассоциировать енотов непосредственно с эротикой. ' << l0l!! 1628548;1489706778;asciilifeform;didjaknow 1628549;1489706801;mircea_popescu;why the fuck are they quoting an english "life" article. 1628550;1489706833;asciilifeform;'by filming the raccoon with a naked woman, the defendant inflicted harm on the population of raccoons. Now, every who sees this given film or photograph, will associate raccoons directly with erotica.' 1628551;1489706849;mircea_popescu;wtf, "violation of animal rights" ? what is this bullshit. 1628552;1489706859;asciilifeform;not just animal 1628553;1489706863;asciilifeform;but 'population of animal 1628554;1489706864;asciilifeform;' 1628555;1489706868;mircea_popescu;"moral rights of raccoon" ? 1628556;1489706888;asciilifeform;of course this is a circus, neither a concrete raccoon nor all of them put together, have any official 'rights' in ru. 1628557;1489706913;mircea_popescu;"animals are not toys" hello, is this an orange zoo ? 1628558;1489706944;asciilifeform;but there is a set of 'fried chicken niggers' (tm)(r)(trilema) in ru, who want to change this, so that they can http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627253 on it. 1628559;1489706944;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 00:29 mircea_popescu: pretty fine example of exactly why warren was so vocal (item was strictly a barony created so elizabeth warren could be barron OF SOMETHING). this cfpb item spent 55mn on "renovations" of its hq, ie more than the gsa spent that year on everything the usg owns ; spent immensely on travel (which is not something they do). the chairman is supposed to not be removable by the president except "for cause" (meanwhile that got strick 1628560;1489706957;mircea_popescu;im sure. 1628561;1489706993;asciilifeform;recently it was proclaimed that these folx succeeded in forcing an animal 'census' in moscow. which turned up some 300 large cats. incl. tigers 1628562;1489706999;asciilifeform;in various apartments. 1628563;1489707004;mircea_popescu;lel. 1628564;1489707012;mircea_popescu;i knew a guy who kept a couple. 1628565;1489707016;mircea_popescu;ranch like house though. 1628566;1489707018;asciilifeform;popular, apparently, pet. 1628567;1489707030;mircea_popescu;yeah, popular, with a certain kind of guy. 1628568;1489707050;mircea_popescu;~chuka, or if you prefer iroquis level of mental retardation. 1628569;1489707063;mircea_popescu;"totem animal make me strong! huukhaa!!1" 1628570;1489707093;asciilifeform;maybe just very advanced toxoplasmosis 1628571;1489707095;asciilifeform;or what was it. 1628572;1489707102;asciilifeform;'when, WHEN can i be eaten!!' 1628573;1489707125;asciilifeform;there are folx who climb the fence in the zoo, in every country 1628574;1489707125;mircea_popescu;nah. contrary to popular imagination, domestic tigers aren't particularly ferocious. 1628575;1489707144;mircea_popescu;i suspect that may be the deep driver, guy knows the animal is harmless, much more so than wife, but visitors shit pants. 1628576;1489707179;mircea_popescu;think : the first time people found out there were 300 tigers in moscow was when they went to look for them. not when the 500 people were eaten, sort of thing. 1628577;1489707187;asciilifeform;indoor pets mostly. 1628578;1489707197;asciilifeform;not many american-style 'picket fence' houses there. 1628579;1489707222;asciilifeform;and iirc there were more leopards, lynxes, other 'desktop' cats, vs 'mainframe cat' 1628580;1489707225;mircea_popescu;yeah. it's a very strong version of i suppose westernarck. if it's seen you for a long time it's not likely to attack unprovoked. 1628581;1489707266;mircea_popescu;similarily to how chickens are perfectly safe with housecat that has history of playing with chickens etc. 1628582;1489707298;asciilifeform;iirc the typical 'eaten by tiger' candidate is not the owner, but a sometime visitor. 1628583;1489707312;mircea_popescu;yeah. some visitor with bad hygiene and brusque manner. 1628584;1489707378;mircea_popescu;the animal ~is~ powerful as all hell. so if it decides to get you you're in trouble. 1628585;1489707429;asciilifeform;the observation where 'the number of circus trainers among population of people eaten by tigers is ~0' applies to just about everything. 1628586;1489711182;ben_vulpes;people don't immediately make friends with the largest animal in the room? 1628587;1489711190;ben_vulpes;the mind boggles 1628588;1489714564;mircea_popescu;tiger's only a quarter ton or so. 1628589;1489714592;mircea_popescu;from what i hear smallest kitten in the room if that room'd be in the 50 contiguous fattes. 1628590;1489717947;mod6; <+mircea_popescu> on occasion. yes with teeth. i also pluck their legs and let them die. in general i torture a good half of all mosquitoes. << i like his enthusiasm. im usually content to simply smash them like @ c3. but, hey, i gotta try this. 1628591;1489718779;BingoBoingo; belan was on cover of one of the sections of the local paper this morning. flexing his tatted muscles in mirror selfie. article referenced how '22yo dropped out of school but was seen on instagram flashing wads of 100s, driving fast cars, drinking grey goose(!), and posing with girls in tight dresses(!!)' << Apparently post partum psychotic beserker dominated local paper here today 1628592;1489719678;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/LHf4M 1628593;1489719758;BingoBoingo;Anyways, that seems to be par for the State of the Female State 1628594;1489719970;asciilifeform;in other very olds : http://www.hartron.com.ua/en/node/91 << for the Museum of Terrifyingly Bad Translations 1628595;1489722636;mircea_popescu;mod6 aha! 1628596;1489723223;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/remington-outdoor-to-lay-off-120-after-greatest-salesperson-departs/ << Qntra - Remington Outdoor To Lay Off 120 After Greatest Salesperson Departs 1628597;1489723450;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, romania building world's largest laser, 10 PW 1628598;1489723458;asciilifeform;sustained?! 1628599;1489723489;asciilifeform;(does there exist 10pw of mains current on tap?) 1628600;1489723496;mircea_popescu;eh ffs, what sustained. pulse. 1628601;1489723508;asciilifeform;aww 1628602;1489723523;mircea_popescu;think for a moment lol. wtf, nuke plant doesn't put out 1pw 1628603;1489723528;asciilifeform;ikr? 1628604;1489723559;asciilifeform;'let's take the most useless golden toilet in usgdom and BUILD BIGGER BETTER ORCER STRONGER' 1628605;1489723583;asciilifeform;( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-10#1600181 ) 1628606;1489723583;a111;Logged on 2017-01-10 04:09 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you were thinking 'laser fusion' -- it's a cynical fraud, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-14#921351 1628607;1489723610;mircea_popescu;i dun think it's for fusion. 1628608;1489723619;asciilifeform;oh hm, for what else 1628609;1489723664;BingoBoingo;Border defense! 1628610;1489723665;mircea_popescu;rarefied plasma experiments ; the place has a history of doing hyperexcited ions research 1628611;1489723684;asciilifeform;neato 1628612;1489723694;asciilifeform;(esp. if it is ~actually~ not-for-fusion-not-at-all) 1628613;1489723696;mircea_popescu;(magurele is the ro chelyabinsk basically) 1628614;1489723758;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's also a sub, "laser replacement for radiotherapy". i dunno tho. 1628615;1489723773;mircea_popescu;anyway, laser-powered-proton-cannon. 1628616;1489723809;BingoBoingo;Gotta have what with to swat Martians at the border 1628617;1489723868;BingoBoingo;Unrelated http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6959 1628618;1489724192;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D0FE988DE85B7EF5C24FBA0149946B393AF185FDE1FFE332A5398C47AED41814 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1430...3347 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.83.111.191 (ssh-rsa key from 80.83.111.191 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1628619;1489724192;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D0FE988DE85B7EF5C24FBA0149946B393AF185FDE1FFE332A5398C47AED41814 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1446...2047 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.83.111.191 (ssh-rsa key from 80.83.111.191 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE) 1628620;1489724816;BingoBoingo;For the theologists http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=19 1628621;1489730467;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/17/of-condoms-and-other-helmets/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Of condoms and other helmets. 1628622;1489730806;trinque;well yeah, but a) they're fucking uncomfortable and b) see A. 1628623;1489730909;trinque;regarding the pill, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's had a profound impact on female behavior. 1628624;1489730926;trinque;they act differently, drastically, when they're preggers 1628625;1489730965;trinque;so then we've made multiple generations of women that get pregnant and miscarry once a month? 1628626;1489731046;trinque;I think rather that it's a mark of a ~severely impoverished~ society that pregnancy is this harrowing pitfall 1628627;1489731065;trinque;whether speaking of culture, sexual dynamics, or money 1628628;1489731167;trinque;what, you have an iPhone? great, kid. my great grandmother had 14 kids and her man was a coal miner. and they all ate. 1628629;1489733080;ben_vulpes;eh, if you're not falling, you're not learning 1628630;1489733114;ben_vulpes;also helmets are hella comfy and i have nfi what you'd need peripheral vision for 1628631;1489733119;ben_vulpes;what, are people passing you on the slopes? 1628632;1489735226;diana_coman;hm, the first thing I purposefully learnt when on skis was...how to fall; as in: how to fall *without* breaking anything etc 1628633;1489735264;davout;in other TRB news, my node is happily bitcoining, doesn't seem too bothered by working with a regular HDD, and that's without asciilifeform's cache patch 1628634;1489735290;davout;connection count slowly growing 1628635;1489735316;davout;if anyone wants a wire in eihter direction lemme know 1628636;1489737227;ben_vulpes;davout: hook me up, bae: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/L1fRc/?raw=true 1628637;1489737282;*;ben_vulpes bbl 1628638;1489754059;mircea_popescu;trinque they are ? 1628639;1489754150;mircea_popescu;diana_coman that's first thing half-decent horseriding instructor teaches you also. 1628640;1489754192;mircea_popescu;heck, should be parenting 101. "baby, don't fall LIKE THAT. fall like this, look" and there she goes, plop on the carpet. 1628641;1489754230;mircea_popescu;99% of sacral fractures are because woman fell flat on her ass like idiot instead of falling on side like nature hardened body to do. 1628642;1489754775;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628626 << i don't see this at all. if you fuck a woman "normally" and she's not on the pill, you will obtain 8 kids in 10 years. you will also obtain an extremely shriveled woman, because like it or not females are essentially the cotyledon of children. biology is merciless and the ultimate empire, it dun care one whit your girl is smart and pleasant and worships you, it just cares to push o 1628643;1489754775;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 06:10 trinque: I think rather that it's a mark of a ~severely impoverished~ society that pregnancy is this harrowing pitfall 1628644;1489754775;mircea_popescu;ut more biomass. look, eg, into the aetiology of osteoporisis (tl;dr : body melts her bones to pump out calcium in milk for baby ; if menopausal it's almost like she's pregnant (ie, low hormonal output) so it melts her bones anyway! because fuck her!) 1628645;1489754775;mircea_popescu;as it happens i am not about to trade my insanely selected (not just http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-the-scared-slut/ should plainly indicate that scarcely a girl in a million makes it past my gates) toys for ... what the fuck for, $random-kid ? That's not for my sluts to do, that's for the 0 value redditards. for them, it's actually +ev. my girls have immensely more important shit to do, such as... everything else. the 1628646;1489754779;mircea_popescu;~only sane way to look at sexuate reproduction in humans is as an equivalent of taking the minimum wage. it's a thing to do there, like flipping burgers, a safety net so you're never in this position where you have absolutely nothing you could do. 1628647;1489754838;mircea_popescu;in other words, human society has advanced to the point where the spot on the r/K continuum that its primate biology has picked is insufficient. i want it way the fuck K-er, which is why my women reproduce through selecting and training other 16-25yo girls, not through having fucking babies. 1628648;1489755267;mircea_popescu;anyway, the pill is not equivalent to "get pregnant and miscarry". it prevents nidation (ie, the implantation of the fecundated ovary into the uterine wall). pregnancy can at the earliest be deemed to have begun once the morule starts signaling (hormonally), which is days away from this moment. it'd be proper-er to say it gilds their womb. 1628649;1489755323;mircea_popescu;(i dunno if english has it, but the girl with the golden cunt is a sort of folk item in romanian. usually in "wtf has she got, is her cunt golden ?!" inquiries of exasperated exes.) 1628650;1489755528;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628626 << how many offspring has buffett? trump? etc. ? why do you suppose? because can't afford? 1628651;1489755528;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 06:10 trinque: I think rather that it's a mark of a ~severely impoverished~ society that pregnancy is this harrowing pitfall 1628652;1489755541;mircea_popescu;trump has a half dozen or something neh ? 1628653;1489755559;asciilifeform;but not 500 1628654;1489755575;mircea_popescu;yeah. that's more of a ... seen Walk Hard ? 1628655;1489755580;mircea_popescu;more of a country bumpkin sorta thing. 1628656;1489755591;mircea_popescu;ended up rich by accident, such as through being rockstar. 1628657;1489755626;asciilifeform;i thought 500 was moar of a sultan thing 1628658;1489755635;asciilifeform;harem exhaust 1628659;1489755657;mircea_popescu;nah. sultans who were porphyrogenited so to speak don't. gengis khan, who is basically a sort of dewey cox, does. 1628660;1489755692;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628623 << there was that tshirt sniffers experiment. was even replicated... 1628661;1489755692;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 06:08 trinque: regarding the pill, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's had a profound impact on female behavior. 1628662;1489755694;mircea_popescu;ironically, harems worked about the same way mine does : lotta girls eating each other out, some anal, some oral, not so much missionary. 1628663;1489755755;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: where's the surprise in this. airplane sits most of the time on parking lot, same as bulldozer, same as harem 1628664;1489755784;mircea_popescu;mmm, this isn't really true is it. 1628665;1489755794;asciilifeform;there's 1 sultan, he has 1 cock, neh 1628666;1489755794;mircea_popescu;machinery utilization usually around 60%. 1628667;1489755802;mircea_popescu;ah that. yeah. 1628668;1489755865;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628633 << davout wouldja post your 'odometer' output plz? 1628669;1489755865;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 07:21 davout: in other TRB news, my node is happily bitcoining, doesn't seem too bothered by working with a regular HDD, and that's without asciilifeform's cache patch 1628670;1489755874;asciilifeform;( see ml for the patch ) 1628671;1489755881;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1628672;1489755883;mircea_popescu;very useful. 1628673;1489755933;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628642 << snipped fallopian tubes work great; iud worx great 1628674;1489755933;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 12:46 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628626 << i don't see this at all. if you fuck a woman "normally" and she's not on the pill, you will obtain 8 kids in 10 years. you will also obtain an extremely shriveled woman, because like it or not females are essentially the cotyledon of children. biology is merciless and the ultimate empire, it dun care one whit your girl is smart and pleasant and worships you, it just cares to push o 1628675;1489755952;mircea_popescu;iud is actually pretty terrible. 1628676;1489755985;asciilifeform;it only got hindenburged/lispwintered 1628677;1489755990;asciilifeform;fud, 1628678;1489755992;asciilifeform;. 1628679;1489756006;mircea_popescu;not really. my mother had one, had to be taken out, nearly died in the process. 1628680;1489756049;mircea_popescu;conceivably the technology improved since the 70s, but anyway. i like pills, they give the girls proper hormonal cycles. why shouldn't she pms ? 1628681;1489756059;asciilifeform;hey there are folx whose parachute didn't open. 1628682;1489756189;asciilifeform;the brakes in my auto are more likely to kill me, than the iud, the chick. 1628683;1489756214;mircea_popescu;prolly true. 1628684;1489756242;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628641 << i thought arse was amortizer!11 1628685;1489756242;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 12:37 mircea_popescu: 99% of sacral fractures are because woman fell flat on her ass like idiot instead of falling on side like nature hardened body to do. 1628686;1489756260;mircea_popescu;not on normal. gotta be a little angled. 1628687;1489756299;mircea_popescu;o hey, english has this! the normal = perpendicular. nice. 1628688;1489756396;asciilifeform;btw pete_dushenski, 'Even with the pill, that forsaken shaman of working woman bondage, the effectiveness is only ~90%.' << this is a lulzy stat, because it lumps in not only user error but outright sabotage 1628689;1489756447;mircea_popescu;that's ridiculous. pill is 100% wtf. even condoms are 99.x if you're not fucking retarded. 1628690;1489756483;asciilifeform;it's ~100% if it actually goes down the gullet everyday. 1628691;1489756512;mircea_popescu;yeah because it provides mutual reinforcement. this is like saying "deodorant is not 100% stinkproof". dude... what ?! 1628692;1489756525;mircea_popescu;who the fuck did you meet that stank. now why did they. 1628693;1489756736;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski seems to be missing out on the 1 and only plus of having just 1 gurl : losing the plastic bag 1628694;1489756760;mircea_popescu;i srsly have nfi why you'd want to. 1628695;1489756862;asciilifeform;matter of taste, neh. i imagine some people fuck in cosmonaut pressure suit. 1628696;1489756908;asciilifeform;they'd laugh at mircea_popescu's thin glove. 1628697;1489756916;mircea_popescu;but ~everyone fucks on beds. i mean, i can see now and again taking girl out on nature walk and generously allowing her to lay on her back in the mud so you don't have to dirty yourself fucking her. but... 1628698;1489757066;mircea_popescu;wtf do you do, she douches after ? every time ? you eat it out of her ? does she dribble cum all over the bed as you watch the second half of the movie, so in a coupla weeks your sheet's rigid ? 1628699;1489757087;asciilifeform;most houses have a shower, even in monkeystan 1628700;1489757108;mircea_popescu;so she douches after ? every time ? 1628701;1489757121;asciilifeform;aha? 1628702;1489757132;mircea_popescu;and before, i expect, because hey, you might feel like eating her out ? 1628703;1489757132;asciilifeform;this is not high tech.. 1628704;1489757143;mircea_popescu;so she takes on average 20 showers a week, this woman ? 1628705;1489757171;asciilifeform;you dun have to wash whole earthly carcass each time neh 1628706;1489757196;mircea_popescu;which is why i said she douches 1628707;1489757199;mircea_popescu;you said shower. 1628708;1489757205;asciilifeform;in civilized places they also have this bidet thing, but it is too high tech for the monkeys 1628709;1489757222;asciilifeform;i only ever saw it alive in c2 and c3 1628710;1489757226;mircea_popescu;lol. they do have it here. dunno about east coast. 1628711;1489757231;mircea_popescu;not in cheap hovels, from what i've seen 1628712;1489757242;asciilifeform;before that only knew of it from grandfather's ww2 story 1628713;1489757269;mircea_popescu;aaanyway. like you say, matter of preference. 1628714;1489757290;asciilifeform;you can't, notably, buy a bidet in american household crud stores 1628715;1489757295;mircea_popescu;lmao 1628716;1489757337;asciilifeform;well yeah, if they displayed it, someone might wonder what it is... and there'll be same wankscandal as when a hotel in nyc installed them 1628717;1489757353;asciilifeform;'ohnoez, cuntwash!!' 1628718;1489757423;mircea_popescu;i always wondered, what do the "every sperm is sacred" folk think about the very natural refund ? 1628719;1489757430;mircea_popescu;not like she KEEPS what you gave 'er. 1628720;1489757446;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-24#639521 << obligatory logz 1628721;1489757446;a111;Logged on 2014-04-24 00:33 asciilifeform: me grandpa (physicist) first encountered a bidet in vienna 1628722;1489757535;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: those folx tend to have some... very interesting.. notions re physiology 1628723;1489757545;mircea_popescu;what, they're all virgins ? 1628724;1489757555;asciilifeform;not even always. 1628725;1489757565;mircea_popescu;so they don't know what a cum rag is, or a wet spot ? 1628726;1489757611;asciilifeform;but they'll say something like 'oh the sacred spermatozoids made it home, that's just water' or some other poppycock. 1628727;1489757621;asciilifeform;usually improvised on the spot. 1628728;1489757629;mircea_popescu;oh right. 1628729;1489757661;mircea_popescu;the semi-permeable cuntmembrane. it allows photons both ways, cocks both ways, sperms one way only. 1628730;1489757680;mircea_popescu;except while they're still inside the cock, then they can also go both ways. 1628731;1489757694;asciilifeform;the power of faith!!111 1628732;1489757828;mircea_popescu;anyway, this all said, let me closingly point out that it's way the fuck easier for her to lick your condom off than to fish for stray globs inside. to the tune of pleasant minute versus tedious quarter hour. 1628733;1489757866;mircea_popescu;not to mention significantly more depraved. 1628734;1489758107;asciilifeform;reminds me of how i was somewhat surprised to learn that pro machinists ~never wear gloves. 1628735;1489758135;mircea_popescu;well we can't all be pro cuntolgists. 1628736;1489758149;mircea_popescu;someone's gotta be teh amateur. 1628737;1489758182;asciilifeform;( there is a very famous photo illustrating why not, i will leave it as exercise for reader, to find it ) 1628738;1489758235;mircea_popescu;not so sure this is a valid comparison, though. the machinist interacts with the machine with his hands. you're fucking her alright, but you don't interact with her with your penis in the same sense. not by a damned sight. 1628739;1489758250;mircea_popescu;for one thing, we're presumed she's bedbroken, which means she'll come when you tell her to. if you do. 1628740;1489758327;asciilifeform;it is not directly analogous, no. merely reminiscent. chick doesn't have a spindle glove can catch on and wind you around, crushing like insect ( at least mine doesn't, i can't speak for others ... ) 1628741;1489758361;asciilifeform;incidentally, davout -- do pilots still wear dogskin gloves ? 1628742;1489758368;mircea_popescu;actually with a little training she can remove your condom, yes. 1628743;1489758432;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: how's that work? you need friction to have grip, neh? 1628744;1489758443;mircea_popescu;rolls it in 1628745;1489758492;mircea_popescu;or how do yo umean ? 1628746;1489758596;asciilifeform;remove with sheer force of cuntgrip? 1628747;1489758644;asciilifeform;i'd picture that there is not enough friction to grip. but if mircea_popescu has demonstrated experimentally -- i'll believe him 1628748;1489758644;mircea_popescu;well, she takes it in loosely and squeezes on the outstroke. provided she can take the whole length, condom will roll up into her. 1628749;1489758670;asciilifeform;aaaah cheating, uses the edge 1628750;1489758674;mircea_popescu;of course. 1628751;1489758691;asciilifeform;ok i was about to 'hmm he fucks lampreys doesnthe' 1628752;1489758716;mircea_popescu;civilian cunt likely doesn't have the fine muscle control, but there's a very thin sphyncter at vaginal entry. though in most girls it's traumatized by bad defloration. 1628753;1489758726;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624181 << funnily enough, currently doing some amateur electrolysis to slowly extract hydrogen, put it into balloon, and (later) attach a simple radio and propeller for cheap ass dirigible. it's Fun 1628754;1489758726;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 14:50 Framedragger: i like my rc airplanes. "the will of history necessitates you to X" has a marx'ified hegelian vibe :p 1628755;1489758738;mircea_popescu;Framedragger ahaha nice! blog it! 1628756;1489758751;Framedragger;yeah, it'll be on the list of shit i need to blog about :/ 1628757;1489758755;asciilifeform;Framedragger: i did this as a boy 1628758;1489758771;mircea_popescu;dude don't miss out, you'll be old and sorry you didn't photograph all the sluts in all the rooms of all the houses + sidewalks + etc. 1628759;1489758772;asciilifeform;light balloon with veeery long stick 1628760;1489758801;Framedragger;asciilifeform: yeah sorta want to do that, too (never did it for some sad reason) 1628761;1489758827;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: yeah, point taken. summer is approaching, and with it, more time "i promise guyz" 1628762;1489758850;asciilifeform;i had a uni prof who was fond of keeping such a balloon on hand, and set it off during lecture when he suspected folx of dozing off 1628763;1489758858;mircea_popescu;i can't tell you how great it is to have trilema. half the shit i forgot about by now, i can get lost in there for hours. 1628764;1489758859;asciilifeform;bang, dust falls off the chalkboards 1628765;1489759078;Framedragger;not bad, not bad 1628766;1489760222;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628645 << nah nobody suggests doing that. I went looking for where you said something about wealthy muslims having the stables full of expendable males, didn't find. 1628767;1489760222;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 12:46 mircea_popescu: as it happens i am not about to trade my insanely selected (not just http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-the-scared-slut/ should plainly indicate that scarcely a girl in a million makes it past my gates) toys for ... what the fuck for, $random-kid ? That's not for my sluts to do, that's for the 0 value redditards. for them, it's actually +ev. my girls have immensely more important shit to do, such as... everything else. the 1628768;1489760249;mircea_popescu;kinda how arabic culture works, neh ? 1628769;1489760254;mircea_popescu;large pile of expendable males. 1628770;1489760263;trinque;seems sensible to me 1628771;1489760270;mircea_popescu;certainly how the original, or the current, caliphate got established. 1628772;1489760315;trinque;idea was that petey (and many others) may be going around not sharing the spooge of the elite with teh common wimmins 1628773;1489760319;trinque;which seems to ~their detriment 1628774;1489760333;trinque;gotta raise some car mechanic's kid instead 1628775;1489760359;mircea_popescu;the sad thing about war is that it's so sensitive to inflation. ancient civilisations in the middle east got wiped when some dorks with young monkey printing press showed up. the whole german world collapsed under the onslaught of a short corsican "emperor" who was paying his armies in promises rather than gold. etc. 1628776;1489760399;trinque;I can see it; count your available supplies poorly and sure, get wiped 1628777;1489760457;trinque;as for the pills, I've seen more than a handful of girls get very boring on them, some with symptoms like constipation even. 1628778;1489760465;trinque;could be something they're putting in them around here 1628779;1489760475;trinque;because gotta HFCS 1628780;1489760476;mircea_popescu;well it depends on the girls and etc. 1628781;1489760488;mircea_popescu;trinque re reproduction : i understand what you're saying, but it's a broken view of human congenital effects. you're thinking "hey, genes are A-Z, types A1 to A9 and so following, sorted by quality. therefore, if guy with A1B2C1...Z2 etc is not fucking, all those yummy low digit genes will not be pumped into wombs, instead kids will be A9B8 etc". 1628782;1489760503;mircea_popescu;this is not correct. the chances of you and unsterile mongoloid of having cook kid are about the same. 1628783;1489760517;trinque;hm, if so the thing falls apart 1628784;1489760523;asciilifeform;'regression to the mean' (tm) 1628785;1489760528;mircea_popescu;it's true he has much bigger chances of having a sub-marginal AVERAGE. but if you're discussing exceptional, you're not sensibly better than him at siring the next genius. 1628786;1489760566;mircea_popescu;so you and $random-girl will have 100 average babies and 1 beethoven, he and $random-girl will have 50 tards, 50 average babies, and 1 bach. 1628787;1489760572;asciilifeform;recall the anecdote re w. shockley's 'genius spermbank' calling feynman ? him: 'whatcha bothering ~me~ for, talk to my father' 1628788;1489760587;mircea_popescu;or whicever grand-mother that was involved. is the problem. 1628789;1489760600;mircea_popescu;this single-agent reproduction model is flawed. there's n generations involved in the process. 1628790;1489760715;mircea_popescu;and there's also complicated and poorly understood problems of fit. it CAN be the case that A+B have horrible children together notwithstanding A and B would be excellent mates for others. this shows up in, eg, horse husbandry all the time -- foal of mare fallen to $random often outperforms foal of same mare with champions. 1628791;1489760736;mircea_popescu;there's numerous examples of this, mares who produced n foals of which the only ones worth a shit they had with $nobody. and all the champs sired junk out of her. 1628792;1489760765;mircea_popescu;(in a previous life mp did extensive racetrack research.) 1628793;1489761249;trinque;http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/ << puts this in perspective. only solution appears to involve getting out of the way of the shuffling, healthy amount of production, judicious filter 1628794;1489761380;mircea_popescu;i see no better. 1628795;1489761422;mircea_popescu;the problem most people fail to even vaguely in the zone represent is ticked in http://trilema.com/2015/the-genetics-of-intelligence/ : to wit, the IMMENSITY of the genetic space. 1628796;1489761453;mircea_popescu;large items are hard for the brain to grasp, but it makes a fucking difference if it's pea sized or black hole sized. not SIMPLY because "oh, can't lift it", but because the universe does not scale liniarily. 1628797;1489761466;mircea_popescu;there is no such thing as degenerate matter (term of art, look it up) in any pea. 1628798;1489761475;mircea_popescu;is tickled* i mean 1628799;1489763597;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform talking about exotic plasmas : didja see they finally made metallic H ? 1628800;1489763658;asciilifeform;i thought that was a while ago ? 1628801;1489763707;mircea_popescu;notrly as a practical item, no 1628802;1489763864;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sooo did it superconduct ? 1628803;1489764129;mircea_popescu;all they did were some reflectivity experiments, from what i gather. not really enough to put current through 1628804;1489764155;asciilifeform;aah so 'unobtainium'. 1628805;1489764167;mod6;mornin' 1628806;1489764172;mircea_popescu;well yes, diamond anvil, stuff. 1628807;1489764176;asciilifeform;hey mod6 1628808;1489764188;mod6;o7 1628809;1489764221;mircea_popescu;https://arxiv.org/abs/1610.01634 1628810;1489764242;*;asciilifeform goes, reads 1628811;1489764279;mircea_popescu;~.5 TPa, .9 reflectance, estimated 30.1 eV at 5.5K 1628812;1489764286;mircea_popescu;measured. about right. 1628813;1489764341;mod6;neat 1628814;1489764360;mircea_popescu;how's trix mod6 1628815;1489764385;mod6;ah, bueno 1628816;1489770338;mod6;im wired up 1628817;1489770354;mod6;and pulling blocks from thin air ala genesis. 1628818;1489770622;asciilifeform;cograts mod6 ! 1628819;1489774305;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG s.nsa customers! 1628820;1489774312;asciilifeform;6 FUCKGOATS units have shipped today 1628821;1489774318;asciilifeform;the rest -- monday, tuesday, of next wk. 1628822;1489774339;asciilifeform;you can check your invoice page on shop.nosuchlabs.com to see if yours went out today. 1628823;1489774387;mod6;\o/ 1628824;1489775636;asciilifeform;!$ ssh 80.83.111.191 67.49.219.148 1628825;1489775636;scriba;ssh banner of 80.83.111.191 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 1628826;1489775637;scriba;ssh banner of 67.49.219.148 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-dropbear_2014.63 1628827;1489775642;asciilifeform;ooh not-debian 1628828;1489782884;asciilifeform;ACHTUNG s.nsa customers! http://nosuchlabs.com updated with certain instructions for Linux users of ganged sets of FUCKGOATS. 1628829;1489784654;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1628830;1489784662;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1111.75, vol: 16960.29964574 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1123.498, vol: 16762.96435 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1105.7, vol: 61445.4228352 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1099.792449, vol: 13213.11810000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1081.0, vol: 8514.38887048 | Volume-weighted last average: 1106.66320055 1628831;1489784723;pete_dushenski;well that was a healthy bit of condom/helmet debate wasn't it. and yet not a single comment on the article! for shame. 1628832;1489784870;mod6;asciilifeform: heeey, thanks chief. 1628833;1489784932;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/bitcoin-mining-difficult-goes-up-3-24-in-newest-adjustment/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Mining Difficult Goes Up ~3.24% In Newest Adjustment 1628834;1489784985;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628622 and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628630 << you guys must've spent too much time together in portland. "gimme muh comfuurt!" an unexpected angle to be sure. can't say i quite agree as to the supreme value of wearing silk underwear on the daily. 1628835;1489784985;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 06:06 trinque: well yeah, but a) they're fucking uncomfortable and b) see A. 1628836;1489784985;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 06:45 ben_vulpes: also helmets are hella comfy and i have nfi what you'd need peripheral vision for 1628837;1489785025;pete_dushenski;also, ben_vulpes must not ski (maybe he boards) because peripheral vision is mucho importante when trails merge at high speed 1628838;1489785048;pete_dushenski;and no, no one fucking passes me. lulz of all time that notion. 1628839;1489785125;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628632 << this is a good point actually. falling ~intentionally~ is exceedingly valuable. please to forgive my lack of qualifier in the article. I learned to ski when i was 3 and certainly can't remember those early learning days! 1628840;1489785125;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 07:20 diana_coman: hm, the first thing I purposefully learnt when on skis was...how to fall; as in: how to fall *without* breaking anything etc 1628841;1489785236;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628641 >> snowboarding encourages this kind of flat ass falling. no wonder i'm noticing more girlies in 20s and 30s switching ~back~ to two planks after two decades of keeping up with the cool kids (who incidentally aren't cool anymore) 1628842;1489785236;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 12:37 mircea_popescu: 99% of sacral fractures are because woman fell flat on her ass like idiot instead of falling on side like nature hardened body to do. 1628843;1489785279;mod6;pete_dushenski: i never thought of it that way. 1628844;1489785295;mod6;it's either your knees or ass. 1628845;1489785310;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628688 << lulzy, yes, but also besides the point! point is magnitude of consequence. duh. even 2% chance nuts imo. 1628846;1489785310;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 13:13 asciilifeform: btw pete_dushenski, 'Even with the pill, that forsaken shaman of working woman bondage, the effectiveness is only ~90%.' << this is a lulzy stat, because it lumps in not only user error but outright sabotage 1628847;1489785311;mod6;girls look hawt in snowpants. 1628848;1489785363;pete_dushenski;mod6: mega-hawt! ski boots complete the pkg 1628849;1489785480;pete_dushenski;sadly, the whole 'apres-ski' culture has declined considerably since the 70s, at least around these parts. used to be that hawties with rich papas would show up at the hill, decked out to the 9s and with $500 boots over their shoulder, and just chill and drink in the chalet all day 1628850;1489785495;mod6;haha. 1628851;1489785513;*;pete_dushenski has never skiied in switzerland or italy, can't speak to liveliness of apres-ski culture there 1628852;1489785601;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628693 << i didn't know that there were ~any~ plusses to having just one girl. now i do! 1628853;1489785601;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 13:18 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski seems to be missing out on the 1 and only plus of having just 1 gurl : losing the plastic bag 1628854;1489785624;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: even having 1 leg has its upsides, fewer socks to wash. 1628855;1489785685;pete_dushenski;hehe 1628856;1489785698;pete_dushenski;you're such an optimist 1628857;1489786036;mod6;lol 1628858;1489786428;pete_dushenski;in other slips and falls, here's an exhaustive list of all the programs / agencies set to be cut down to size in the trumpreich : http://archive.is/GxHR5 1628859;1489786481;pete_dushenski;gotta love washpo's new subtitle : "democracy dies in darkness" (!!) 1628860;1489789030;pete_dushenski;in other patriots, gen david perkins brags about $3mn missile being used to kill $200 quadcopter http://archive.is/eBheq 1628861;1489790073;trinque;so sex is not meant to feel good? the fuck? 1628862;1489790126;trinque;I'm not fucking anyone because "value" 1628863;1489790155;trinque;tends to be a lot less abstract 1628864;1489790192;trinque;turns out they shipped human males with this giant "yes" lever 1628865;1489790339;trinque;lol, in fact, isn't it whores that focus on the value proposition!? (I kid) 1628866;1489790353;shinohai;!~later tell mod6 all the pherkin tests looked good, even when I intentionally muddle the press. 1628867;1489790353;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1628868;1489790359;*;shinohai bbl dinner .... 1628869;1489790376;pete_dushenski;trinque: lol some of us are more cerebral than sexual. mebbe can't 'get out of own way' but it's what it is. 1628870;1489790390;trinque;different strokes 1628871;1489790406;pete_dushenski;but both long! 1628872;1489790541;danielpbarron;!~bible pro 5:19 1628873;1489790542;jhvh1;danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 5:19 :: Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. 1628874;1489790689;pete_dushenski;in animals as in men, "March 16 (UPI) -- A Moscow petting zoo is suing the advertising company that rented a raccoon, saying it was used in an "erotic" shoot with a nude model and now the raccoon is obsessed with women's breasts." 1628875;1489791061;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: see logs 1628876;1489791210;pete_dushenski;my bad 1628877;1489791231;pete_dushenski;still lulzy as shit 1628878;1489791282;pete_dushenski;bbl yo 1628879;1489791551;*;BingoBoingo still not sure "racoon" story wasn't just a "das racis" joke 1628880;1489791601;BingoBoingo;Because "coons" vs *coons!" 1628881;1489796853;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628849 << teh good days be gone. 1628882;1489796853;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 21:18 pete_dushenski: sadly, the whole 'apres-ski' culture has declined considerably since the 70s, at least around these parts. used to be that hawties with rich papas would show up at the hill, decked out to the 9s and with $500 boots over their shoulder, and just chill and drink in the chalet all day 1628883;1489796899;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628859 << dies where it fucking belongs, with the rats. 1628884;1489796899;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 21:34 pete_dushenski: gotta love washpo's new subtitle : "democracy dies in darkness" (!!) 1628885;1489797049;mircea_popescu;Woodrow Wilson International Center << bwhahaha. i can hear the shocked butt tears of career middle aged wiminz from here. fuck you bitchez, shoulda learn to twerk when you had the chance. now go die in darkness. "bureaucracy career" my foot. 1628886;1489797059;mircea_popescu;anyway, the list is not even 1/3 as published. more like 1/4 1628887;1489797080;mircea_popescu;there's about 6-700k "career" dorks who won't be making their mortage payments this year. 1628888;1489797157;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628873 << hey, sounds pretty much spot on 1628889;1489797157;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 22:42 jhvh1: danielpbarron: [KJV] Proverbs 5:19 :: Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. 1628890;1489797198;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628879 < i suspek you may be pretty close to truth. 1628891;1489797198;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 22:59 BingoBoingo still not sure "racoon" story wasn't just a "das racis" joke 1628892;1489799765;mod6;shinohai: ah cool 1628893;1489799788;mod6;thanks for testing! 1628894;1489800822;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/guys-and-dolls/ << Trilema - Guys and dolls 1628895;1489801788;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628894 timestamped 01:33 whereas https://archive.is/dlUoc timestamped 01:47 shows it as "11 minutes ago". teh alphabets got some new servers or what. 1628896;1489801788;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 01:33 deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/guys-and-dolls/ << Trilema - Guys and dolls 1628897;1489802112;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: phuctor gets crawled every ~10min, looks like 1628898;1489804084;mircea_popescu;pretty impressive. 1628899;1489807023;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-121602 (hey thread wasn't finished) :) 1628900;1489807052;Framedragger;(ugh also s/connectionsvii/connections/) 1628901;1489807615;mircea_popescu;answert. 1628902;1489808721;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: i'm probably doing sth wrong but now one of the two replies i just posted is marked as awaiting moderation and the other doesn't; sorry if i broke some bytes 1628903;1489808736;Framedragger;s/doesn't/isn't/ 1628904;1489808745;*;Framedragger sleeps to become more coherent later 1628905;1489809921;mircea_popescu;answert again. 1628906;1489810100;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: many thanks (added a trivial answer just to properly ack). ok time to sleep before blabbering again, mein gott 1628907;1489810125;mircea_popescu;sleep tight. 1628908;1489814975;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-fabulous-baker-boys-2/ << Trilema - The Fabulous Baker Boys 1628909;1489816609;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627436 << i saw a few 2's scroll by while writing the index to disk, i'm going to spend some time staring at it myself and then share it around 1628910;1489816609;a111;Logged on 2017-03-15 16:27 Framedragger: did you already have a chance to check if there are any tx collisions in the 32 bit address scheme? just curious 1628911;1489816732;ben_vulpes;lest anyone forget, my skull-processes are geological in pace 1628912;1489817487;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626739 << all three listings were bought by same person http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623423 1628913;1489817487;a111;Logged on 2017-03-14 03:45 asciilifeform: ~ $ 7k ! 1628914;1489817487;a111;Logged on 2017-03-08 23:59 phf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/douglasfields << him 1628915;1489832791;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: cool stuff! 1628916;1489834999;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624858 << re rdtsc etc, i'm curious, does `grep -E '^model name|^cpu MHz' /proc/cpuinfo` consistently report to you mhz which are (+/-1 a mhz or so) equal to model frequency? (i know you can turn off linux powersaving etc features) 1628917;1489834999;a111;Logged on 2017-03-10 23:41 asciilifeform: if it dun run at a constant rate: a) adjust your bios b) if fails, Throw it out!! 1628918;1489835052;Framedragger;it doesn't do that for me (but i'm yet to double check that some 'additional' powersaving / freq scaling features are not enabled) 1628919;1489835639;Framedragger;(okay apparently if your cpu supports 'constant_tsc' (as seen in cpuinfo) then this timestamp counter actually counts time and not processor ticks which is a *good thing* given freq scaling etc.; this is available in all new intel processors; what a rabbit hole, man) 1628920;1489835897;Framedragger;(also due to modern out-of-order execution in cpu pipelines, may need to force all commands before the rdtsc call to be 'flushed', i.e. to have completed before the counter instruction is called; just noting for self) 1628921;1489838824;mircea_popescu;basically, "modern" shit evolves towards uselessness. 1628922;1489839037;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-17#1628783 << to briefly revisit : contrary to what general public might expect (tm), if brother and sister conceive together the result is going to be a perfectly fine baby by any standards. yes it's possible they spawn a monster, but not likely, and moreover this is possible anyway. (for instance : rh negative women (but not positive) impregnated by rh positive man can and often do develop aut 1628923;1489839037;a111;Logged on 2017-03-17 14:21 trinque: hm, if so the thing falls apart 1628924;1489839037;mircea_popescu;oimmunity against either current fetus or, even more perverse, against the NEXT. girl has kid fine, but also prepares herself to murder next horribly. nature is FULL of such traps.) 1628925;1489839085;mircea_popescu;the problem, however, is that under the skin-deep "kid is fine", his passive genetics have seriously weakened. if he lives as part of a larger population that does this, a few generations down the road genetic decay manifests and there's literally no hope -- the population will either move to exogamy or die out. 1628926;1489839141;mircea_popescu;which is WHY the "dun fuck your sister" thing is such a huge taboo : a) it will kill you and b) you won't notice. that's the problem with these boiled frogs scenarios, from carbon monoxide poisoning to sibling conception to etc : you got no warning bells connected to THIS failure mode. 1628927;1489839156;mircea_popescu;but what this means, obviously, taking the converse... is that there's a lot there than meets the eye. which is the point. 1628928;1489839305;mircea_popescu;(hydrops fetalis / rhesus disease crumbs the rh thing) 1628929;1489839826;mircea_popescu;this is, of course, also the natural basis for tyranny. it's nice and good to have independent agents, but there must be some sort of authority which tells them "hey, you're rh-, your husband rh+, you're seven months in, here's your rh antigen shot." this authority may be the wife, may be the husband, but if it's neither of them it'll have to be something outside, and if it is what do you call it ? 1628930;1489839867;mircea_popescu;tyranny, exactly. "do this or die." that's the definition. and it's not yielding : if the wife/husband have the intellectual wherewithal to understand the whys and wherefores, fine, and bully for them. but if they do not -- it isn't thereby going away, lol. 1628931;1489839889;mircea_popescu;so it stands entirely unrevisable : either you understand it or not ; whether you want it or not : here's your shot. tyranny. 1628932;1489839953;mircea_popescu;add to this that there's a long list of such must-know (o hey, bought new house in so and so zone ? does it have a basement ? here's your geiger counter. what do you mean you don't understand ? atten-hut! nobody asked you what you understand, and it'll be 49.95 1628933;1489839961;mircea_popescu;not to mention it keeps on growing, like any blockchain. 1628934;1489840446;mircea_popescu;and here's something to amuse alf with : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6__KPOV4AA0_AK.jpg 1628935;1489843623;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/724600905B1EC7B1AF7234B5B29D4A07AC2D9FFAFB84B76D7E396B40574E4760 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1522...5779 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.144.32.40 (ssh-rsa key from 5.144.32.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CH) 1628936;1489844152;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/724600905B1EC7B1AF7234B5B29D4A07AC2D9FFAFB84B76D7E396B40574E4760 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1500...2987 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '5.144.32.40 (ssh-rsa key from 5.144.32.40 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CH) 1628937;1489845801;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-anti-woman/ << Trilema - The anti-woman 1628938;1489846609;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628916 << my opterons don't have a throttled clock, physically 1628939;1489846609;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 11:03 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-10#1624858 << re rdtsc etc, i'm curious, does `grep -E '^model name|^cpu MHz' /proc/cpuinfo` consistently report to you mhz which are (+/-1 a mhz or so) equal to model frequency? (i know you can turn off linux powersaving etc features) 1628940;1489846713;Framedragger;hm ok. 1628941;1489846782;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628912 << whoever it was, he has problems paying, apparently, i bid on the 'macivory' and ended up getting '2nd chance offer, high bidder didn't pay' from seller 1628942;1489846782;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 06:11 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-14#1626739 << all three listings were bought by same person http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-08#1623423 1628943;1489846850;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628909 << didja save the full colliding txids, ben_vulpes ? 1628944;1489846850;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 05:56 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627436 << i saw a few 2's scroll by while writing the index to disk, i'm going to spend some time staring at it myself and then share it around 1628945;1489847057;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628934 << what were l0/l1 in the context? looks like i've fallen behind in altcoinology 1628946;1489847057;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 12:34 mircea_popescu: and here's something to amuse alf with : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6__KPOV4AA0_AK.jpg 1628947;1489847243;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform recall earlier discussion re "what is segwit" / deedbot ? 1628948;1489847255;mircea_popescu;"l1" in this phraseology would be "deeds". 1628949;1489847268;mircea_popescu;ie, they're not on-chain but once-removed. 1628950;1489847304;mircea_popescu;l0 is verified by the bitcoin network as part of its functioning. l1 can be verified by anyone with a full blockchain. 1628951;1489847347;asciilifeform;i can see how it could exist, but not what the point is 1628952;1489847349;mircea_popescu;anywya, the reason i linked it is because obviously the ~whole space readily reduces to "what a number of people understood and remembered of what they at some point read on #trilema" 1628953;1489847365;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you don't see what the point for deeds is ?! 1628954;1489847372;asciilifeform;not deeds, lol 1628955;1489847379;asciilifeform;the heathen imitation 1628956;1489847388;mircea_popescu;why implement deeds stupidly ? dude i dunno, why does apple exist. 1628957;1489847394;mircea_popescu;cuz tards. 1628958;1489847403;asciilifeform;'i can't believe it's not bitcoin' 1628959;1489847405;mircea_popescu;why do the 5000 bs "christian" us sects exist ? 1628960;1489847415;mircea_popescu;absolutely no conceivable reason outside of some jolene or other needing to feel special. 1628961;1489847440;mircea_popescu;plus they got into an argument over the carpeting color in 1956 and split the congregation. 1628962;1489847479;mircea_popescu;in other not news, argentine reds are fucking fabulous omfg. 1628963;1489847622;asciilifeform;speaking of schisms in heathendom, https://archive.is/WplLL >> 'A group of nearly 20 exchanges has released contingency plans in the event that the bitcoin network splits in two, creating two competing currencies. The exchanges are now planning to list Bitcoin Unlimited (BU) as they would an alternative cryptocurrency...' 1628964;1489847691;mircea_popescu;eh, "nearly 20 exchanges", wut. "exchange" idiots have managed to trade the 2012 situation, where they had gone from 0 to almost 50% of bitcoin trading for a slow and agonizing death. i'd be surprised if all of them (which within 90% is the first two) actually cover 10% of bitcoin for fiat trade. 1628965;1489847705;mircea_popescu;i know that out of the past 1mn i traded, 0% was on an exchange. 1628966;1489847749;asciilifeform;the lulzy bit: '"However, none of the undersigned can list BTU unless we can run both [blockchains] independently without incident. Consequently, we insist that the Bitcoin Unlimited community (or any other consensus breaking implementation) build in strong two-way replay protection," the group said. "Failure to do so will impede our ability to preserve BTU for customers and will either delay or outright preclude the listing of BTU."' 1628967;1489847769;mircea_popescu;heh. whatevs. 1628968;1489847805;asciilifeform;i.e. 'we know about mircea_popescu's nuke, invent a magical bunker for us to hide in' 1628969;1489847873;mircea_popescu;more like, the usg is under the pressure to appear to be doing something, has settled on "chipping", ie, o noes if an eth splits off bitcoin that'll be bad for bitcoin!!!1 1628970;1489847895;mircea_popescu;not how it works irl on any models that don't include "we need to be seen as doing something please god" as a hard constraint. 1628971;1489847922;mircea_popescu;but whatever, "who could have predicted" and "nobody wants a govt job anyway so you can't fire us." 1628972;1489851653;diana_coman;!!rate lobbes 2 Made a very useful bot for #eulora. He's very modest, too. 1628973;1489851655;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uAhzP/?raw=true 1628974;1489851702;diana_coman;!!v F8300762F6EDDA3F83850CF78CB1DB94E6D58544E2BB666233953DCEE839F8F4 1628975;1489851703;deedbot;diana_coman rated lobbes 2 << Made a very useful bot for #eulora. He's very modest, too. 1628976;1489852741;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628943 << shoot, no, but i'll rechurn and do so 1628977;1489852741;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 14:20 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628909 << didja save the full colliding txids, ben_vulpes ? 1628978;1489852761;ben_vulpes;when you say 'colliding txids', you mean 'colliding top 32 bits', right? 1628979;1489852811;mircea_popescu;colliding hash 1628980;1489852913;ben_vulpes;the methodology i recall was 'for each tx, take top 32 bits, use as index into array, increment byte at offset" 1628981;1489853075;asciilifeform;colliding in top32 , ben_vulpes 1628982;1489853079;*;mircea_popescu bows out of this discussion lest he fucks up the laboratory glass. 1628983;1489853101;asciilifeform;which naturally includes the at least 4 known wholly-colliding hashes 1628984;1489853116;ben_vulpes;mhm 1628985;1489853611;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E9EE3CA9D5C60624D4305E16BBBC55FCBD35309FA1BB2AE5091363A87906CE1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1438...7997 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.12.32.81 (ssh-rsa key from 88.12.32.81 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (81.red-88-12-32.staticip.rima-tde.net. ES) 1628986;1489853611;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7E9EE3CA9D5C60624D4305E16BBBC55FCBD35309FA1BB2AE5091363A87906CE1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1531...3483 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.12.32.81 (ssh-rsa key from 88.12.32.81 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (81.red-88-12-32.staticip.rima-tde.net. ES) 1628987;1489855028;ben_vulpes;in other animal abuse: https://68.media.tumblr.com/2eb26f208aae5aac32c073c00c69bbf5/tumblr_nry1bnZ8Ug1rlcp5ro1_1280.jpg 1628988;1489855088;shinohai;Nice Japanese pron you found there ben_vulpes 1628989;1489855614;ben_vulpes;"Alf's Snake"? 1628990;1489855686;*;asciilifeform got the ref 1628991;1489858670;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628941 << he was offered an out on his later trades, because "why buy a macivory if you already bought a better macivory??", but i don't think he's going to take it 1628992;1489858670;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 14:19 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1628912 << whoever it was, he has problems paying, apparently, i bid on the 'macivory' and ended up getting '2nd chance offer, high bidder didn't pay' from seller 1628993;1489858747;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626568 << pretty much entire board is socketed, definitely the case for ivory 1628994;1489858747;a111;Logged on 2017-03-13 16:49 asciilifeform: !~later tell phf i was thinking' of buying that 'ivory' and making a signal interposer . any idea whether the magic cpu was soldered down, or LIF socketed..? 1628995;1489858966;phf;also by signal interposer you mean attaching a logic analyzer, or an actual gadget to sit on bus and do things? 1628996;1489859002;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-13#1626296 << http://glyf.org/tmp/ivory.jpg 1628997;1489859002;a111;Logged on 2017-03-13 00:13 asciilifeform: !~later tell phf i dug out my crate of dead bolix boards, turns out i'm a chump, the pcb in question was a dead xl1200 ~i/o~ board. the only cpu on it is what looks like a z80! 0 smbx silicon. 1628998;1489859600;asciilifeform;phf: i already have a logic analyzer, but would have to get it attaches to the pins on that thing 1628999;1489859610;asciilifeform;*attached 1629000;1489859626;asciilifeform;and where'd you get that one ? 1629001;1489859633;asciilifeform;wanna sell? 1629002;1489859662;asciilifeform;though the pinout is unknown, which is why i considered getting entire card 1629003;1489859696;asciilifeform;literally everything else on that card, i have pinouts for, they are standard 1980s parts, it seems 1629004;1489859708;asciilifeform;i can read the eprom, and the GALs 1629005;1489859715;phf;i suspect there's a handful of pals there? 1629006;1489859722;asciilifeform;and xray for the pcb tracks 1629007;1489859810;phf;i'm not sure if it's working, it's from a "possibly broken" box, but i can lend you that one after i test it in my ivory, and if you have a viable project of some sort, i can probably get you more 1629008;1489859827;asciilifeform;overall i suspect this is a more productive attack than microscopy ( though the thing was fabbed at 1 uM, it would be quite visible on optical microscope ) 1629009;1489859866;phf;my goal with that thing was to give it to zeptobars, but i'm not going to moscows for at least another 4 months 1629010;1489859997;asciilifeform;i bid 2.6k usd on the ivory2 from earlier thread, then wss outbid, then offered nonbinding '2nd chance', but by then thought 'meh' 1629011;1489860023;asciilifeform;phf wouldn't happen to know the pinout, by any chance ..? 1629012;1489860049;asciilifeform;*was 1629013;1489860282;asciilifeform;phun phakt, according to the press release for smbx, that thing had 370k transistor. slightly more than 386. (but around half as many as 486 iirc) 1629014;1489860304;asciilifeform;it'd handily fit in a, e.g., xilinx spartan6. 1629015;1489860363;asciilifeform;( and picture if it could be made in modern fab, at GHz+ ! ) 1629016;1489860390;asciilifeform;betcha all of the 'life support' would fit also. just stick a few srams and a nic on top. 1629017;1489860508;asciilifeform;out of curiosity, why does phf keep 'ivories' around if he has alpha, and on top of that a patched/working x64 generatron? 1629018;1489860530;asciilifeform;( ivories, and xl1200, and i forget what else ) 1629019;1489860599;asciilifeform;iirc alpha-genera on 1ghz alpha runs at 40x the clock that xl1200 ran at.. 1629020;1489861141;phf;both approaches are viable, you can use emulator as reference, you can also use real hardware as reference, with the solution meeting somewhere in the middle. 1629021;1489861229;phf;i don't have an alpha though, same reason i don't have a macivory, i don't want to have to study/rely on all these other architectures 1629022;1489861287;asciilifeform;oh hm i thought phf had an ivory 1629023;1489861317;asciilifeform;asciilifeform would trade a 3620 and 2 alphas for 1 working ivory 1629024;1489861323;phf;xl1201 is an ivory (ivory being a cpu inside the box, merlin being the architecture) 1629025;1489861329;asciilifeform;aah 1629026;1489861350;phf;macivory is an ivory on a board with all the i/o handled over a bus by a mac 1629027;1489861377;asciilifeform;aha i knew this 1629028;1489861399;asciilifeform;i was merely confounded by 'i'll test it in my ivory' 1629029;1489861446;phf;aah, yeah, i'll test it in xl 1629030;1489861473;*;phf afk 1629031;1489861478;asciilifeform;also it seems like there were 2 macivories, the one i almost bought, was 4x slower than the last made, and had external ( on another nubus card ) ram 1629032;1489861494;asciilifeform;which paradoxically makes it ~better~ from reversing pov 1629033;1489861520;asciilifeform;( much easier to snoop nubus cycles than to tap a bus on ancient and fragile card ) 1629034;1489861998;asciilifeform;phf: i've contemplated a 'cheat' : run macivory 'lifesupport' on patched m68k emulator (e.g., 'basilisk') that would bring nubus i/o out to a test stand, on which the card would sit 1629035;1489862033;asciilifeform;then replace card with fpga+ivorychip (after reversed glue logic) 1629036;1489862043;asciilifeform;then, eventually, whole shebang with fpga. 1629037;1489865543;mircea_popescu;that said, it could of course be re-done, by people who understand completely what it did. but a lot more work than "print me these old family films on modern paper". 1629038;1489865546;mircea_popescu;oops 1629039;1489865561;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-18#1629015 << odds are it couldn't be re-done in a current fab, the vast majority of current fab constraints go towards avoiding echos and other self-crits the design may impose upon itself. as the engineers at the time didn't labour under the same constraints, and they're cutting out way more than 99% of the theoretical design space, the odds their work product would work in 14nm process are ze 1629040;1489865561;a111;Logged on 2017-03-18 18:06 asciilifeform: ( and picture if it could be made in modern fab, at GHz+ ! ) 1629041;1489865561;mircea_popescu;ro for any item larger than a few transistors' worth. 1629042;1489866301;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there are ~no echoes etc at the 10mhz the thing worked at. 1629043;1489866322;mircea_popescu;i'm sure. wasn't much of a problem in general in the z80s days 1629044;1489866329;asciilifeform;aha 1629045;1489866342;asciilifeform;and z80 worx ok in 22nm. 1629046;1489866346;mircea_popescu;that dun mean you can just take the plans and do them in modern fab 1629047;1489866352;mircea_popescu;does it ? 1629048;1489866354;asciilifeform;aha 1629049;1489866358;asciilifeform;and 6502 1629050;1489866385;asciilifeform;that d00d (chuck peddle, iirc) who makes the wd65c02 1629051;1489866407;mircea_popescu;how do you know this ? 1629052;1489866412;asciilifeform;makes'em in modern fab, cheap, too, i have a bunch of samples here 1629053;1489866432;mircea_popescu;gee. how big is a 22nm z80 lol 1629054;1489866448;asciilifeform;i know this because he is fabless, makes'em at commercial 'by the pound' fabs 1629055;1489866459;*;mircea_popescu had no idea. 1629056;1489866513;asciilifeform;fabbing at other than 'bleeding edge' process, is apparently quite predictable and 'boring' affair 1629057;1489866526;mircea_popescu;interesting. 1629058;1489866528;asciilifeform;more like ship charter, than space launch. 1629059;1489866575;asciilifeform;recently i found that even a plebe could, in theory, afford a few thou. units of 1980s-style fab. 1629060;1489866589;asciilifeform;at , e.g., that french outfit 1629061;1489866599;asciilifeform;is in the logs somewhere.. 1629062;1489866605;*;asciilifeform brb, meat 1629063;1489872552;*;ben_vulpes read that as "chip starter" 1629064;1489875599;deedbot;http://danielpbarron.com/2017/super-mario-bros-3/ << Daniel P. Barron - Super Mario Bros. 3 1629065;1489876977;trinque;heh 1629066;1489877740;mircea_popescu;shit check danielpbarron putting notes on his fucking categories. 1629067;1489877742;mircea_popescu;mindblown 1629068;1489881757;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/S0UxJ/?raw=true 1629069;1489881757;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1629070;1489887279;mod6;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-12#1162469 << I'm looking at scopes... anreccomendations on these? tektronix or rigol ones ok? 1629071;1489887279;a111;Logged on 2015-06-12 20:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, ascii_field, how does one check cardanos without an oscilloscope ? 1629072;1489887315;mod6;*any reccomendations 1629073;1489887333;mircea_popescu;rigol prolly fine. 1629074;1489887459;shinohai;o heya mod6 .... sorry about last night guess I fell asleep before I got your message, still need to see that output? 1629075;1489887609;mod6;mircea_popescu: ah, cool thx :] 1629076;1489887620;shinohai;" 1629077;1489887622;shinohai;Mozilla says most people are "pretty fuzzy" about the way encryption works. Some 65 percent say they know a little about encryption but wish they knew more, while almost third said they know almost nothing about it. Those who claim to know more about encryption also report feeling more secure online, according to Mozilla." 1629078;1489887625;mod6;shinohai: ah hey, no worries. 1629079;1489887923;shinohai;^ the above from http://archive.is/Vsu89 1629080;1489888426;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-19#1629073 << is what i have. cheapo, but worx with not-winblowz 1629081;1489888426;a111;Logged on 2017-03-19 01:35 mircea_popescu: rigol prolly fine. 1629082;1489888445;asciilifeform;relays ( i shit thee not ) click inside it, when switching ranges 1629083;1489888477;mod6;is that normal? 1629084;1489888489;mircea_popescu;well ... more or less lol. 1629085;1489888492;asciilifeform;normal for starvation-cheap chinese instrument 1629086;1489888518;mod6;haha. i've never used one of these before. but im interested in learning how to use it. 1629087;1489888534;asciilifeform;( analogue solidstate switches with low distortion -- cost money; relays have 0 distortion, and cost penny ) 1629088;1489888584;asciilifeform;iirc one of the other d00d at c2 confessed to having same rigol at home ( was it kako..? or davout ) 1629089;1489888629;mod6;do the tektronix ones only work with winblowz or something? 1629090;1489888676;asciilifeform;most of the nice ( $1000 and up) scopes, are winblowistic aha 1629091;1489888703;asciilifeform;( serious aficionados would spit, say '2k + !') 1629092;1489888725;mod6;ahh, ok. i wasn't even totally aware that you needed software along with the tool. i thought that the sample was just fed back to you on the little screen... 1629093;1489888737;mircea_popescu;well yes but suppose you actually want the data 1629094;1489888743;asciilifeform;aha 1629095;1489888752;mod6;ah. makes sense. 1629096;1489888763;mircea_popescu;sorta works like a tv box, more or less. 1629097;1489888797;mod6;im a total n00b on this stuff, my apologies. 1629098;1489888804;asciilifeform;there's 4MB in that rigol, if you want more than 4MB of tape, gotta plug into comp 1629099;1489888809;mircea_popescu;ie, sure, you can watch curves of our lives. or record it. 1629100;1489888848;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what'd possess someone to make 4mb internal storage you know ? put a fucking camera stick, have whatever, 32gv 1629101;1489888854;mircea_popescu;gb* 1629102;1489888856;asciilifeform;slow 1629103;1489888863;asciilifeform;needs fast. 1629104;1489888868;mircea_popescu;how slow can it be lel. modern camera films hdtv. 1629105;1489888871;*;asciilifeform brb, meat 1629106;1489892026;*;BingoBoingo just got back from corned beef and cabbage at long term drug and alcohol rehab facility. A+++ would eat holiday novelty food there again. 1629107;1489892068;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/shinohais-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-btu-breakage-heat-zcash-instamine-lulz-and-more/ << Qntra - Shinohai's Shitcoin Roundup Xtend: BTU Breakage Heat, Zcash Instamine Lulz, And More 1629108;1489892464;shinohai;thx BingoBoingo 1629109;1489892472;BingoBoingo;ty shinohai 1629110;1489892511;*;shinohai is now hungry since BingoBoingo mentioned corned beef and cabbage .... 1629111;1489892512;mod6;http://trilema.com/2017/the-anti-woman/ << Footnote ', pro-tip has me lmao 1629112;1489892532;mod6;*footnote 'v' 1629113;1489892656;mircea_popescu;ikr? 1629114;1489892657;mircea_popescu;idiots. 1629115;1489892824;shinohai;They have to show off all that happiness that only Jeebus can give. 1629116;1489893501;BingoBoingo;The socially aware cheerleader type girls seem to in my experience use the bared fangs smile successfully to intimidate lesser girls, the social inept church females seem to ape what the cool cheerleaders do without understanding 1629117;1489893533;mircea_popescu;possibru 1629118;1489893633;BingoBoingo;It's a seriously dangerous woodchipper idiocy. Not realizing an act of aggression for what it is and mistaking it for a welcome. 1629119;1489894820;BingoBoingo;!!up jjj_f3hr 1629120;1489894820;deedbot;jjj_f3hr voiced for 30 minutes. 1629121;1489900483;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-19#1629104 << if your scope samples at 1G/sec, and (cheapomatic) 8-bit ADC: that's a 1000MB/s. where do i buy a camera ssd that writes at this rate? 1629122;1489900483;a111;Logged on 2017-03-19 02:01 mircea_popescu: how slow can it be lel. modern camera films hdtv. 1629123;1489900575;mircea_popescu;yes. where do you buy a 4mb internal memory that writes at that rate, seeing how that's what the fucking rigol has. 1629124;1489900591;mircea_popescu;now simmer down, you're gonna do something in the mbps range, which is what we're talking about. 1629125;1489900649;asciilifeform;you buy it anywhere, 1ns sram is not exotic 1629126;1489900690;asciilifeform;in mb/s range worx great, rigol has usb jack, even, knows how to piss to thumb drive 1629127;1489900702;mircea_popescu;right. 1629128;1489900881;asciilifeform;re that particular unit -- screen is the weak point, what with 320x200 1629129;1489900934;asciilifeform;to n00bs i often recommend to have an analogue scope also 1629130;1489900948;asciilifeform;( the traditional kind, with crt. ) 1629131;1489901000;asciilifeform;very versatile thing, imho not the least bit obsolete. 1629132;1489902353;danielpbarron;didn'tlikewhatshesaw 1629133;1489902437;mircea_popescu;lel 1629134;1489903330;ben_vulpes;aaand what feels like an eternity later, i have completed my first actual (minor) under-the-hood surgery on the corvette. alternator belt, which is behind the power steering, air conditioning, and "AIR" pump belts 1629135;1489903563;ben_vulpes;feels really good to get a solid grasp on a nut you'd thought completely out of reach and really wrench on it 1629136;1489903592;ben_vulpes;;) 1629137;1489903701;mircea_popescu;wd eh! 1629138;1489911205;mircea_popescu;motherfucker. so run gzip -t on an archive, it... ends silenty. 1629139;1489911220;mircea_popescu;wtf is this. did it test out ok ? did the pos just die ? WHO THE FUCK DOES THIS 1629140;1489925132;mircea_popescu;in further lulz : tar is not able to create directories with an @ in them (why ? because they don't quote, obviously), yet they're standard in exim inbox saving. ergo, can't safely tar.gz exim directory. 1629141;1489925141;mircea_popescu;who the fuck seriously runs linux ? i wish to see this wonder. 1629142;1489939975;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D32C79BBE908A0BC788FBEF17E660AC014C65AE4160A60EF8BE507DA68EFB913 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1195...0199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.50.28 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.50.28 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (dad-web01.cpt4.remote.chs.hetzner.co.za. ZA) 1629143;1489939975;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D32C79BBE908A0BC788FBEF17E660AC014C65AE4160A60EF8BE507DA68EFB913 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1113...3657 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.50.28 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.50.28 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (dad-web01.cpt4.remote.chs.hetzner.co.za. ZA) 1629144;1489940496;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D32C79BBE908A0BC788FBEF17E660AC014C65AE4160A60EF8BE507DA68EFB913 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1195...0199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.221.50.28 (ssh-rsa key from 197.221.50.28 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (dad-web01.cpt4.remote.chs.hetzner.co.za. ZA) 1629145;1489940497;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8736A1AEF8241C44FB9FB8BCC9E64E793DB165405696DF922E1E7A7B308E326F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1195...0199 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.189.240.22 (ssh-rsa key from 197.189.240.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown ZA) 1629146;1489940497;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8736A1AEF8241C44FB9FB8BCC9E64E793DB165405696DF922E1E7A7B308E326F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1279...2379 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '197.189.240.22 (ssh-rsa key from 197.189.240.22 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown ZA) 1629147;1489953775;ben_vulpes;https://www.flickr.com/photos/stml/33411791166/ 1629148;1489953783;ben_vulpes;"autonomous trap 001" 1629149;1489957678;deedbot;http://trinque.org/2017/03/19/welcome-to-houston/ << trinque - Welcome to Houston 1629150;1489958674;BingoBoingo;https://bitnodes.21.co/nodes/?q=/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99 << 14 1629151;1489959038;Framedragger;trinque: nice colour palette 1629152;1489960154;trinque;ty 1629153;1489960452;Framedragger;(probably wasn't clear, i mean the photo, i've read the blog before. ..almost looks like it was shot on film or sth) 1629154;1489960556;trinque;just shitty ipnoje 1629155;1489962742;mircea_popescu;!!up doppler 1629156;1489962742;deedbot;doppler voiced for 30 minutes. 1629157;1489962987;doppler;hello. 1629158;1489963014;mircea_popescu;hi there. 1629159;1489963021;mircea_popescu;an' who might you be ? 1629160;1489963090;doppler;just a dude; I read your website and sort of have a loose grasp of some of the community members here 1629161;1489963104;mircea_popescu;ic. 1629162;1489963261;doppler;hoping to chill out here for a little while if that's ok 1629163;1489963365;doppler;mostly I want to learn more about where I am 1629164;1489963371;trinque;maybe you want to make better introductions than "a dude" ? 1629165;1489963387;mircea_popescu;anywya, the log's published. 1629166;1489963401;doppler;yes 1629167;1489963473;doppler;I have a lot of interests relating to computer technology and operating systems 1629168;1489963478;doppler;some of you can probably relate there 1629169;1489963657;Framedragger;doppler: i found this useful when trying to understand what are some of the things that people are doing here: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-05#1317685 (seven items) 1629170;1489963657;a111;Logged on 2015-11-05 22:00 mircea_popescu: actually, this is probably long overdue and a major public service. so i ordered teh gals bring cognac and i shall proceed 1629171;1489963821;mircea_popescu;o hey, not even any mention of the church & the state. 1629172;1489963847;Framedragger;many-headed recursive hydra. 1629173;1489963900;Framedragger;i think that list was supposed to focus on technology-things, hence it being so partial. (but then, maybe one can see 'church' as a piece of technology, etc...) 1629174;1489963914;mircea_popescu;aha. 1629175;1489963933;doppler;Framedragger: thanks; that's helpful. 1629176;1489963935;Framedragger;(in the greek sense of techne) 1629177;1489963945;doppler;oh yeah and of course I read asciilifeform's site too 1629178;1489964503;doppler;well before my +v expires I'd like to say it was nice to meet you. catch you later. 1629179;1489964918;shinohai;!!up doppler 1629180;1489964919;deedbot;doppler voiced for 30 minutes. 1629181;1489964937;shinohai;More importantly, who is your Daddy and what does he do? 1629182;1489965189;doppler;!~ty 1629183;1489965189;jhvh1;You are very welcome Daddy 1629184;1489965417;Framedragger;that wasn't a joke question... 1629185;1489965499;doppler;I guess I'll imagine shinohai as having an arnold voice from now on, haha 1629186;1489965603;doppler;my father does account management at a photography studio 1629187;1489965646;shinohai;I think you are proobably tghe first person I have *ever seen give a direct response* to that question here. 1629188;1489965713;doppler;I've seen that you ask it quite often 1629189;1489965723;doppler;so instead of making something up I thought I'd tell it to you straight 1629190;1489965731;Framedragger;pretty neat to actually see an answer :) 1629191;1489965831;doppler;what are/were your parents' professions? 1629192;1489965842;Framedragger;!~later tell mod6 oh is tb0t offline currently? :) 1629193;1489965843;jhvh1;Framedragger: The operation succeeded. 1629194;1489965876;Framedragger;(^ thought of printing out project names for doppler to look at) 1629195;1489965889;doppler;I have one of those families where no tree member within reasonable reach has worked on anything even remotely scientific 1629196;1489965894;doppler;which is kind of uninspiring 1629197;1489965927;Framedragger;doppler: one's psychoanalyst and the other's member of parliament (we have frequent disagreements on things, suffice to say) 1629198;1489965945;Framedragger;now that i think of it, same with my tree i think 1629199;1489966001;doppler;oh man, what a duo :) 1629200;1489966048;Framedragger;(re. scientific tree, grandfather had this notebook where he diddled lots of things. he was a kind of soviet accountant, and died when i was ~4. many years later when looking at notebook, i discover this 'game' across a great many pages of it. turns out... game of life - neat) 1629201;1489966096;Framedragger;doppler: yeah they have frequent disagreement-verbiage between themselves, too, guess that's an interesting dynamic 1629202;1489966109;Framedragger;s/diddled/doodled/ but diddled maybe even better 1629203;1489966133;doppler;ooh neat re: GoL 1629204;1489966142;doppler;that's like something you'd see in a film 1629205;1489966164;doppler;kid finds grandfather's old notebook and slowly unravels the puzzle within 1629206;1489966218;Framedragger;yeah :) i obviously didn't have any meaningful connection with him before he died, and this was the first semi-personal thing that honestly made me sad 1629207;1489966662;Framedragger;anyway not sure how useful but you might want to take a look at http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/ doppler (at *_tickets.html), not sure how up to date. also http://trilema.com/category/job-board/ for interesting projects which may be good for you as well as good for this here forum 1629208;1489966674;mircea_popescu;Framedragger> pretty neat to actually see an answer :) << quite. 1629209;1489966713;doppler;Framedragger: cool, I'll take a look 1629210;1489966719;mircea_popescu;Framedragger o god your poor mother. 1629211;1489966731;Framedragger;srsly 1629212;1489966827;Framedragger;(she is the psychoanalyst btw, but the combo yields friction regardless) 1629213;1489967028;mircea_popescu;anyway, "disagreement-verbiage" so to call it is the stuff of life. i have tons of it with my slavegirls, and they're very literal chattel slaves, not as much as a stitch they own outright nor as much as a private fold in their heart. nevertheless... 1629214;1489967029;mircea_popescu;it's not a bad thing, not among people who love each other. 1629215;1489967066;Framedragger;yeah, you're right, of course. 1629216;1489969771;mod6;Framedragger: thanks for the heads up 1629217;1489969831;mod6;<+Framedragger> anyway not sure how useful but you might want to take a look at http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/ doppler (at *_tickets.html), not sure how up to date. (...) << Yeah, it needs some updating. The new V is going to be out in the next few days. Then will put some time into that. 1629218;1489969872;Framedragger;ooh new V, shiny 1629219;1489970006;mod6;Yup, all the wot variant rules are in place. We now orphan vpatches from the flow where ~all~ antecedents are *not* present. Some other small changes, such as; When you press to a give output directory 'X', and then press to the same given output directory, we first remove 'X', then create & press. 1629220;1489970081;mod6;Heh, I'm working on a major update to T, also. It's been a bit slow-going as that isn't obviously the most high priority item. 1629221;1489970136;mod6;I do want to outline more of the trb-i work in tickets, and do some clean-up/management of existing trb tickets. 1629222;1489970200;mod6;There is some side project stuff too that I'd like to get organized and tickets entered for. For instance, you, Framedragger, did some work towards the filesystem idea. We aught to have a ticket for that and track the results. 1629223;1489970256;mod6;Even if you think that we're at a wall, and we've seen all there is to see.. then we record those numbers. Or if we should try on baremetal with, reiserfs, and record those, or if even with those baselines, then someday we make our own filesystem and compare to those baselines. 1629224;1489970260;mod6;*shrug* 1629225;1489970273;mod6;Gotta have a way to go back and check easily, and have a place for that. 1629226;1489970300;mod6;Anyway, just as an example of side-projects that need tracking... 1629227;1489970334;mod6;It's important work. 1629228;1489970356;mod6;Would be really nice if we could get away from BDB. 1629229;1489970458;mod6;There are some other cool side projects going on now too... such as the wallet-cut effort. 1629230;1489970467;mod6;So we need some updated tracking to that effort. 1629231;1489970486;mod6;I dont need a ticket for this, but man, I really gotta get into the swing of Ada. 1629232;1489970523;mod6;So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going. 1629233;1489970787;mod6;<+asciilifeform> to n00bs i often recommend to have an analogue scope also << are these just a bit easer to learn on than their digital counterparts? 1629234;1489970861;Framedragger;mod6: fwiw i agree completely. the key point here is (as you said) *noting it down* (including dead-ends). so yeah, afaict you're on the very right track here. i wonder, does the current system need complex massaging to be able to track things like that? i mean, you can add tickets, but i guess no way for them to have a *list* of notes (per ticket) 1629235;1489970944;Framedragger;i guess having an easy way to add new projects (or have a 'misc' parent but maybe that's too dirty) would help in that it'd be easier to record stuff, including tasks not directly tied to trb or V 1629236;1489970948;mod6;no, not a list of notes per ticket in the original version. 1629237;1489970969;mod6;in the new version it's setup different. 1629238;1489971006;Framedragger;ok cool :) 1629239;1489971046;mod6;there can be public/private projects. 1629240;1489971079;mod6;there are project admins, and project users... etc. i should add the ability for rich or chained notes. 1629241;1489971099;Framedragger;(btw since there's so much different stuff happening i was considering doing something like http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-13#1481401 (and possibly using log.mkj.lt's multi-line-citation feature to 'capture' different notes/projects) but obviously expanding the ticketing system in a consistent, proper way is the way to go) 1629242;1489971099;a111;Logged on 2016-06-13 01:00 Framedragger should write some kind of simple thingie which takes (1) keyword and (2) timestamp pairs as intervals, and produces a kind of wiki page for all given keywords. (2) can be amended later as needed. so that there'd be a page for gossipd without much effort at all 1629243;1489971123;mod6;it's meant to be project cutomizeable per project... with like the ticket codes, etc. i'm building out the database now... and it's going well, just slowly. 1629244;1489971139;Framedragger;hey that sounds pretty awesome. 1629245;1489971181;mod6;hopefully it'll be at least better than the first version, which is fine for now, but certainly could be better. 1629246;1489971222;mod6;yeah, there was this intial idea of a 'stenographer'.. and I think that's what drove me to just make the ticket system. 1629247;1489971226;Framedragger;(current version records the important things including trb work, so imho it's doing fine) 1629248;1489971301;mod6;and we could track things easier instead of having to have it be a formal role. but with the new version, seperate projects can have different users, so for instance, if UCI wants a stenographer, then the project admin can just add the steno to the UCI users table. volla. 1629249;1489971363;mod6;any ticketing thing is as useful as you make it. it takes effort to remember to keep it up and to ~use~ it. any thing we can do to make that a more automated process though, is nice. 1629250;1489971388;mod6;tb0t eventually will be upgraded to use the new system. 1629251;1489971425;mod6;so that might help. i might write some sort of API also where project admins can interact with their projects without having to use IRC. 1629252;1489971455;mod6;some sort of PGP based command system. 1629253;1489971463;mircea_popescu;mod6 doesn't seem all that slow going from here :) 1629254;1489971482;mod6;:] 1629255;1489971492;Framedragger;mod6: by steganographer, do you mean a way of linking to chat lines relevant to given project, or a way of automatically linking relevant chat lines (keywords), or a (flesh) user role? just curious 1629256;1489971493;mircea_popescu;also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 ; did not see ext2 ; did not see reiserfs. 1629257;1489971520;mod6;i started working on it very briefly ... maybe 7-10 days in like ... december. but haven't touched it since. 1629258;1489971526;Framedragger;(yeah mircea_popescu afraid i won't have time re. those other two till quite a bit later) 1629259;1489971551;mircea_popescu;sure, wasn't re you, was about his ticket. 1629260;1489971580;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 ; did not see ext2 ; did not see reiserfs. << for sure. i think we're just getting started baselining these prototypes. 1629261;1489971603;mod6;so a very exciting time, as far as I'm concerned. 1629262;1489971611;mircea_popescu;fo sho. 1629263;1489971628;mod6;Framedragger: the stenographer role was proposed to be an actual job for the foundation, complete with pay and everything. 1629264;1489971629;mircea_popescu;we ~might~ even wish to see fat32/ 1629265;1489971678;mod6;The role was put on hold since I wrote `t', and 'tb0t', but might come back up again at a later date. 1629266;1489971684;mod6;You never know. 1629267;1489971734;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: oof, max fat32 size is 4gb, with a maximum of (to the tune of) hundreds of millions of files (less than 1bn); there's also exFAT of course, etc., but eugh 1629268;1489971747;Framedragger;mod6: interesting to know! 1629269;1489971778;mircea_popescu;no, i know. but if we end up patching dumbass systems, we should consider the whole field of dumbass systems. not just the ones that falsely promise to work and then fail to work ; but also the ones which honestly admit their limits. 1629270;1489971810;mircea_popescu;i don't recall being as pissed off with fat32 at any point throughout the 90s as i've regularly been hence. 1629271;1489971866;Framedragger;sure. my internal alfatron says "may as well test for tape backup storage system viability" though; surely it's inefficient to test *all* things in a domain that one is not optimistic to begin with. but i see your rationale of course 1629272;1489971914;mircea_popescu;consider : IF we decide to make megabyte large blocks, who says fat32 is inadequate then ? that 4gb has a lot to do with the size of a block. 1629273;1489971974;Framedragger;afraid i didn't catch this particular drift, sir 1629274;1489971992;mircea_popescu;and for that matter, who's to say a simple move to 64 bits doesn't resolve the problem altogether. but anyway, i'm more making a point than proposing a technical solution. 1629275;1489971999;Framedragger;4096 blocks per partition, with limited number of partitions per disk, etc? 1629276;1489972007;Framedragger;suresure. 1629277;1489972023;mircea_popescu;Framedragger no, 4gb where "byte" = 1 mb. 1629278;1489972044;Framedragger;not that my word carries a lot of weight here but gotta say, alf's block storage idea (bypassing fs) makes a lotta sense (and is elegant, with defined complexity, etc.) 1629279;1489972065;mircea_popescu;to my eyes it looks a lot like fs-in-a-fs. 1629280;1489972109;Framedragger;not at all! sure, you still rely on disk's firmware but the degree of crapola-reliance is orders of magnitude less. *you do not deal with filesystem at all*. 1629281;1489972150;mircea_popescu;but yes, certainly to be looked into. 1629282;1489972170;Framedragger;you basically deal with a continuous array; plus the option to be careful to read/write at sector boundaries for i/o efficiency. 1629283;1489972185;mod6;well, whatever we go with will be a solution driven by performance numbers and functional satisfaction. 1629284;1489972186;Framedragger;so many items for tickets :) 1629285;1489972197;mircea_popescu;but yes mod6 has it. gotta measure this crap. 1629286;1489972206;mod6;so, let the prototyping begin! 1629287;1489974411;shinohai;In Coinbase lulz "Customers who wish to access both blockchains at the time of the hard fork should withdraw their BTC from GDAX" 1629288;1489974663;Framedragger;gdax looks to have a sick animation on the landing page, with forever-rising candles 1629289;1489974663;Framedragger;well i'm sold 1629290;1489974902;shinohai;They are like blockchain.info where the most important "upgrades" are cute animations to the UI 1629291;1489974968;*;shinohai still remembers wtf'ing with mod6 over the fact their new, improved site had no way to dump privkeys for nearly 2 months 1629292;1489977153;mod6;that made me so mad. 1629293;1489977216;mod6;well, not mad, more like disgusted 1629294;1489977614;mircea_popescu;lol 1629295;1489980614;trinque;homeboy from san antonio needs to pick a less retarded name 1629296;1489980618;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-19#1629214 << "if you're not falling you're not learning", also "conflict is productive" 1629297;1489980618;a111;Logged on 2017-03-19 23:43 mircea_popescu: it's not a bad thing, not among people who love each other. 1629298;1489980717;mircea_popescu;confined conflict/ 1629299;1489980757;ben_vulpes;pls to expand? 1629300;1489980762;mircea_popescu;"exothermic oxidation is productive". sure it is, if it happens in the combustion chamber. 1629301;1489980777;ben_vulpes;ah yah 1629302;1489980793;mircea_popescu;that's why science is based on research, yes, but not random research. paradigm-supported research. 1629303;1489980800;mircea_popescu;and so on. 1629304;1489980814;ben_vulpes;you can't spend all that energy confronting her with her own mistakes, let her walk out, digest it, and the next man benefit 1629305;1489980834;ben_vulpes;if you don't own it, what the fuck is the point fixing it? 1629306;1489980861;ben_vulpes;asks the guy who developed a recreational habit of fixing other people's toilets in the most retarded corner of south america... 1629307;1489980909;mircea_popescu;lol 1629308;1489980931;mircea_popescu;i understand you though. they're so boneheadedly retarded they're offensive to the very concepts. 1629309;1489980987;*;trinque imagines ben_vulpes standing atop a fixed shitter patriotically, like the bum in mircea_popescu's parable 1629310;1489981006;trinque;THIS HERE IS MY SHITTER NOW 1629311;1489981034;ben_vulpes;i mean there's a whole trumpet flare and clouds parting and everything sure 1629312;1489981086;trinque;https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/74/76/fd/7476fdcd2b9a4afebc143ccdd72c1d7f.jpg 1629313;1489981094;ben_vulpes;but the experience is more that of having blessed some random jews wandering in the desert with the secrets of hygiene 1629314;1489981112;ben_vulpes;trinque: lol, verily 1629315;1489981113;mircea_popescu;in other lulz : there's this matte window to the side of my chicken. and there's a gecko who now lives there. but i mean totally, its his window. 1629316;1489981125;mircea_popescu;i suppose the light attracts delishius snacks. 1629317;1489981132;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: pardon me but the side of your /what/? 1629318;1489981145;mircea_popescu;ahaha 1629319;1489981146;mircea_popescu;kitchen 1629320;1489981169;ben_vulpes;anyways, upstack, i have had a very ahem productive weekend 1629321;1489981212;ben_vulpes;imagine, extracting penitence from an nth-wave feminist child of gs-infinity staff 1629322;1489981228;ben_vulpes;old hat for the mircea_popescu's 1629323;1489981231;mircea_popescu;same here. new slavegirl, haven't slept since sat. 1629324;1489981475;ben_vulpes;also acquired a few new g5 towers 1629325;1489981481;ben_vulpes;get 'em while you can, folks 1629326;1489981488;ben_vulpes;well, 'new'. new to me. 1629327;1489981538;mircea_popescu;what, towers are disappearing ?! 1629328;1489981551;ben_vulpes;no, specifically the macintosh ppc g5's 1629329;1489981566;*;trinque has several piles of that hardware here too 1629330;1489981574;trinque;the minis are also nice to have 1629331;1489981576;mircea_popescu;ah 1629332;1489981589;ben_vulpes;with the forth based firmware, etc 1629333;1489981609;ben_vulpes;i'm sure stan has all sorts of shade to throw 1629334;1489981629;ben_vulpes;nevertheless, i have good money that says these machines will be plentiful and cheap until they are utter unobtainium. 1629335;1489981635;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-16#1483684 1629336;1489981635;a111;Logged on 2016-06-16 21:34 asciilifeform: it was an interesting arch 1629337;1489981641;mircea_popescu;imagine if in a few years the actual fucking chunks of metal are the point of worship. "oh man, that's tech! who can make straight angles anymore!" 1629338;1489981654;mircea_popescu;sells for 7k funbux on the ruby app. 1629339;1489981698;ben_vulpes;cases are very pretty at that 1629340;1489981710;trinque;yeh, outside and in 1629341;1489981716;mircea_popescu;you've been inside ?! 1629342;1489981722;ben_vulpes;golden era of jobsdom 1629343;1489981726;*;mircea_popescu pictures 3 inch tall trinque 1629344;1489981759;trinque;lel 1629345;1489981763;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes it occurs to me, btw, that the scam whereby people who were holding jobs shares were converted to cook shares is one of the cruelest things in nature. 1629346;1489981774;mircea_popescu;"hey, it's still apple". bitch... that is SO not apple... 1629347;1489981799;mircea_popescu;"well... the other guy died" aaaand this is my problem how! i bought jobs stock not fucking wtf this is. 1629348;1489981803;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: bezzle land corporate structuring is just sad on every axis 1629349;1489981810;mircea_popescu;pretty much 1629350;1489981840;ben_vulpes;hacker nyooz recently realized how brokerages add slack to the market, twas a lulzy set of comments 1629351;1489981856;trinque;been considering the ideological reproduction thing since recent genetics threads (and rereading related trilema) 1629352;1489981860;ben_vulpes;'omfg you mean to tell me there's no centralized database of who owns what and owes who else which shares?' 1629353;1489981861;trinque;you'd have thought Ive was going to be the guy 1629354;1489981905;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: to be fair, anyone who didn't liquidate a week before jobs' illness hit the rags is a derp who got what they deserved 1629355;1489981959;ben_vulpes;but you know how it goes. traders, trade. hodlers, hodl. investors, what dat. 1629356;1489981985;trinque;how many decades of Jobs beatings did Ive take, and he what, internalized none of it? 1629357;1489982007;trinque;guy probably had more of it directed at him than anybody else in the place 1629358;1489982037;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yes, from an individual perspective. but in aggregate, worst case of confederate dollars ever. "we'll take these 5bn shares of apple and replace them with 5bn shjares of crapple. because it's ok hurr." 1629359;1489982041;ben_vulpes;oh, come, he just organized the teams as what took the shellacking 1629360;1489982049;ben_vulpes;stood by, happy to not be in the hotseat 1629361;1489982052;trinque;not according to his own account 1629362;1489982056;trinque;entirely not so 1629363;1489982059;mircea_popescu;lel own account ? 1629364;1489982073;ben_vulpes;i'm plain unaware of what he says 1629365;1489982092;trinque;I've heard Ive talking (with misty eye almost) about how the relationship with Jobs was "hard" 1629366;1489982103;ben_vulpes;well ofc he'd /say/ that, /now/ 1629367;1489982126;ben_vulpes;dipshits who got onto the car project will say that about /him/ 1629368;1489982161;trinque;mk my whole point here is that the obvious successor failed 1629369;1489982190;mircea_popescu;succession is a particularly dubious proposition. 1629370;1489982206;mircea_popescu;i don't think there's a case in history where the shareholders got their money's worth. 1629371;1489982212;trinque;entirely my point, aha 1629372;1489982231;ben_vulpes;kill the old boss and take his chair 1629373;1489982246;mircea_popescu;so much so that it seems to me the whole model is fundamentally flawed. what "corporation" ? bs. wot-style, one man. 1629374;1489982250;*;ben_vulpes chants blood blood blood 1629375;1489982278;trinque;"our company" just like "our democracy" 1629376;1489982278;mircea_popescu;the delusion of a corporation has at its core the notion that "what to do" is a well explored space, and that "anyone" could and moreover in that position would be doing it. 1629377;1489982297;mircea_popescu;this works ok if the corporation does stuff buffett understands, like fishing, or manufacturing chewing gum 1629378;1489982305;mircea_popescu;nobody gives a shit about that, nor can a model based on such examples be THE MODEL. 1629379;1489982338;ben_vulpes;buffet at least endeavoured once upon a time to buy firms with established mgmt. 1629380;1489982341;mircea_popescu;and especially these days, when they don't even own the capital goods in any sense whatsoever. 1629381;1489982364;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yeah, and guess why ? because outside of the owner, the paper's not worth jack. 1629382;1489982390;ben_vulpes;funny, veen and i were just running through this 1629383;1489982408;ben_vulpes;"would you rather buy a car repair shop or a subway?" 1629384;1489982454;mircea_popescu;buy a subway holy shit. why the fuck would you buy an item the dorks expect to be provided "as a publicgood". fuck them. 1629385;1489982472;mircea_popescu;let them provide it. 1629386;1489982516;ben_vulpes;well yeah, nobody wants to deal with schmucks who're going to gripe about the shitbuck it's going to take to fix their sole mode of transportation 1629387;1489982528;mircea_popescu;quite. 1629388;1489982555;ben_vulpes;more specifically, "assuming one wants a car shop for purely emotional and recreational reasons, how to determine what to pay for it?" "calculate hardware liquidation price, discount four years of cashflow declining by 10-30% a year to today, and offer a dime over that" 1629389;1489982559;mircea_popescu;moreover fuck the "it's going to take". you want me to own an item i can't price to market ? hurr. 1629390;1489982568;trinque;ben_vulpes: isn't trimet some kind of quasi-governmental tick sucking on not one, but two states? 1629391;1489982574;trinque;the only "own a subway" is that 1629392;1489982577;ben_vulpes;trinque: triggered 1629393;1489982584;mircea_popescu;pretty much, yes. 1629394;1489982607;ben_vulpes;trinque: subway trash food vendor 1629395;1489982632;mircea_popescu;that's the game in "owning" public infrastructure : you pretend to be the owner, offer the bureaucrats all the convenient excuses you can while sucking all the tax money possible. it's like lockheed martin without the wings 1629396;1489982635;ben_vulpes;which go for 5-7x what a car shop goes for, fwiw 1629397;1489982641;mircea_popescu;o wait, lockheed martin thing doesn't actually fly either 1629398;1489982644;mircea_popescu;it's ~= lockheed martin, on examination. 1629399;1489982655;trinque;lol 1629400;1489982688;ben_vulpes;the best game in town is actually to sell "software services" to the "public utilities" 1629401;1489982694;mircea_popescu;but yes, it's one step above trying to make money out of "guaranteed A essay" depository websites. 1629402;1489982723;mircea_popescu;except the essay is not for schoolboy consumption but for bureauctat consumption. he gives it to his boss / superviser / inquiry committee and walks 1629403;1489982728;ben_vulpes;except for how it's a miserable shitshow of liars and frauds and also you have to sell shit they won't actually benefit from to bureaucrats 1629404;1489982775;mircea_popescu;yeah, that's the problem with "sweet" setups of the religious persuasion : no real barrier to entry, it's all blowing smoke. so you sooner or later find yourself eyeball deep in the shitswamp and wonder how the "sweet" thing ended up fulla flies. 1629405;1489982810;*;ben_vulpes has a tool in place, the annual maintenance and extension budget for which was dwarfed by the amount of money spent closing the sale on its replacement. which is going on lord only knows how late, nth rewrite, over budget, no surprises in sight 1629406;1489982824;mircea_popescu;there's a lot of dumb shit young men do because their parents are woodland creatures / barn animals, buyt this is by far the most common, "building a career" on government crap. 1629407;1489982860;mircea_popescu;seems a great idea until you're 40 and 10-15-20 years in. 1629408;1489983721;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-16#1628104 << tripped over the "won't connect to localhost" horseshit iirc, which you've fixed 1629409;1489983721;a111;Logged on 2017-03-16 17:25 asciilifeform: iirc ben_vulpes set up a similar experiment ( lan miner ) a month or so ago, but i dun recall what came of it 1629410;1489983749;ben_vulpes;and with this bit of how the other half lives, i bid ye adieu: http://68.media.tumblr.com/2b2348d8f69c7d1dd8d1ba6b96358cf4/tumblr_omzwq2XTZI1vg6t4ko1_1280.jpg 1629411;1489984033;BingoBoingo; I've seen that you ask it quite often << Are you sure it was him you saw asking? 1629412;1489984140;shinohai;I had to fill in during your absence BingoBoingo 1629413;1489984156;shinohai;But certainly moar log reading is in order. 1629414;1489984248;trinque;I'll be impressed when the "I'm just a dude" trope goes away. 1629415;1489984258;trinque;if so, what's with the demure intro 1629416;1489985070;shinohai;"Oh wow, we've never had just any dudes here" 1629417;1489985142;BingoBoingo;From the great justice files http://www.deseretnews.com/article/787926/Doctors-alcoholic-defense-frustrates-the-IRS.html 1629418;1489985376;trinque;We admitted we were powerless to give a shit about the IRS 1629419;1489985391;trinque;it checks out 1629420;1489985423;BingoBoingo;!~step9 1629421;1489985423;jhvh1;9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 1629422;1489985464;BingoBoingo;^ Nothing about amends to non-people which would be injurious to actual people 1629423;1490016399;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D33126663C8161A8EF4DCCEAA5321D0CBF95441A3D35C0BAC2BAF6D2F4397C40 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1135...5527 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.75 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.75 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown MX CHH) 1629424;1490016400;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71AF9594F2393F6AB85B14C1C615C449E8833966B1FA30A198C98FC36750B4C5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1107...9569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.1.161 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.1.161 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown MX CHH) 1629425;1490016400;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D33126663C8161A8EF4DCCEAA5321D0CBF95441A3D35C0BAC2BAF6D2F4397C40 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1107...9569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.11.75 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.11.75 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown MX CHH) 1629426;1490016401;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/71AF9594F2393F6AB85B14C1C615C449E8833966B1FA30A198C98FC36750B4C5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1155...2443 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.1.161 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.1.161 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown MX CHH) 1629427;1490023774;shinohai;!~ticker --market all 1629428;1490023782;jhvh1;shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1046.62, vol: 9715.90190285 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1058.0, vol: 10542.53481 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1046.4, vol: 31965.72322665 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1036.93467, vol: 4979.26190000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1021.79, vol: 3648.79513829 | Volume-weighted last average: 1046.19464506 1629429;1490024122;asciilifeform;in other lulz, from the dept. of 'let's make a sham version of EVERYTHING discussed in #trilema', http://btcpowupdate.org 1629430;1490024269;mircea_popescu;lel 1629431;1490024817;phf;jeez, i like how they are not even trying. a bootstrap template one pager and a link to "bitcointalk thread" 1629432;1490024849;mircea_popescu;hey, it works for the "domain name real estate" "investors" !! 1629433;1490025768;asciilifeform;http://archive.is/NAyGm << linked from somewhere in this lul 1629434;1490025983;*;shinohai remembers the lukejr lulz 1629435;1490028541;BingoBoingo;Which lulz, there are many with said rat 1629436;1490028975;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/armed-guard-at-german-grocer-kills-man-in-saint-louis/ << Qntra - Armed Guard At German Grocer Kills Man In Saint Louis 1629437;1490029116;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629232 << trbi, with the fixed-length-everythings, needs ~no fancy indexer at all. it's for a hypothetical sane-trb. 1629438;1490029116;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 00:42 mod6: So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going. 1629439;1490029245;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629256 << even reiser is almost certainly waste of time, general-purpose fs is very sharply the opposite of what we want, they are all optimized for mutability (can delete/rename/resize/etc) and fast reads at the expense of slow entity creation, as well as carrying out silent rebalances/defrags/etc. 1629440;1490029245;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 00:58 mircea_popescu: also, we are not at wall : we saw ext4 ; did not see ext2 ; did not see reiserfs. 1629441;1490029280;mircea_popescu;you might well be right. i still wanna see them. there is no possibility to waste time by looking around. 1629442;1490029299;asciilifeform;hey general-purpose fs are still useful for... general-purpose life. nobody cancelled'em 1629443;1490029306;BingoBoingo;http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=7007 1629444;1490029310;asciilifeform;i'd enjoy reading honest benchmarks for 1st time in lfie 1629445;1490029312;asciilifeform;*life 1629446;1490029324;mircea_popescu;aha. 1629447;1490029363;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629264 << how's that meant to work ? classical fat32 has no such animal as a symlink, for instance. 1629448;1490029363;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 01:00 mircea_popescu: we ~might~ even wish to see fat32/ 1629449;1490029411;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629270 << the magical powerz of low expectations!111 1629450;1490029411;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 01:03 mircea_popescu: i don't recall being as pissed off with fat32 at any point throughout the 90s as i've regularly been hence. 1629451;1490029442;asciilifeform;asciilifeform, however, remembers 'defragging.' and lost clusters. and various 'pleasures.' 1629452;1490029466;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629267 << Framedragger did anybody ever in fact reverse-engineer microshit's 'exfat' ? 1629453;1490029466;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 01:02 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: oof, max fat32 size is 4gb, with a maximum of (to the tune of) hundreds of millions of files (less than 1bn); there's also exFAT of course, etc., but eugh 1629454;1490029470;asciilifeform;last i recall, nobody had. 1629455;1490029477;mircea_popescu;not afaik 1629456;1490029498;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629271 << i actually like tapes, and wish that they were readily available today in useful sizes 1629457;1490029498;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 01:04 Framedragger: sure. my internal alfatron says "may as well test for tape backup storage system viability" though; surely it's inefficient to test *all* things in a domain that one is not optimistic to begin with. but i see your rationale of course 1629458;1490029531;asciilifeform;(4GB 4mm tape is not today price-competitive, much less time-is-money-competitive, with dvd-r) 1629459;1490029549;asciilifeform;and so my tape decks, once princely , gather dust. 1629460;1490029626;Framedragger;asciilifeform: iirc there are reverse-engineered implementations, yes, but whether they're any good is another q 1629461;1490029651;asciilifeform;Framedragger: better q imho would be - whether there is anything to be learned from these. 1629462;1490029671;Framedragger;https://github.com/relan/exfat ftr, e.g. 1629463;1490029680;Framedragger;yeah sure (and probably notrly) 1629464;1490029695;asciilifeform;( i don't recall, in my entire working life, cribbing a useful, solid piece of technical knowhow from microshit. ) 1629465;1490029720;mircea_popescu;directx. 1629466;1490029723;Framedragger;(https://github.com/relan/exfat/blob/master/libexfat/exfatfs.h#L40 e.g.) 1629467;1490029728;phf;a4 sized qr codes and sheet scanners 1629468;1490029744;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: directx is simply a fruit of collusion with the gpu vendors, i see nothing innovative about it 1629469;1490029746;mircea_popescu;and the original dos. 1629470;1490029753;asciilifeform;the original dos was not created by microshit. 1629471;1490029754;mircea_popescu;you didn';t say "innovative" 1629472;1490029763;mircea_popescu;you said the fucking opposite. 1629473;1490029772;asciilifeform;'useful, solid' 1629474;1490029779;mircea_popescu;knowhow. yes. directx. 1629475;1490029806;Framedragger;asciilifeform: you didn't feel any appreciation while reverse engineering rootkits targetting NT kernel? :) just curious 1629476;1490029824;Framedragger;i mean, towards NT kernel. boy i should recline now 1629477;1490029841;asciilifeform;Framedragger: 99+% of the malware samples i have ever laid hands on, were complete snoar 1629478;1490029869;asciilifeform;build in microshit vs, even. (this includes usg's, as was well laid out for exhibit in the latest dump) 1629479;1490029876;asciilifeform;*built in microshit 1629480;1490029947;Framedragger;yeahok. 1629481;1490030158;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629306 << i know a d00d who paid with own money to renovate... flat he was living in. five figs (usd) even. 1629482;1490030158;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 03:34 ben_vulpes: asks the guy who developed a recreational habit of fixing other people's toilets in the most retarded corner of south america... 1629483;1490030214;asciilifeform;it made a perverse sense, 'yes someone else will get to eat it, eventually, but moving to a flat that already has all of this, will cost MORE , and forever' 1629484;1490030251;mircea_popescu;i dun see the problem, i do this with some regularity. get the landlord to eat > then your actual residual post amortisation you're golden. 1629485;1490030274;asciilifeform;landlord ate none of the cost, this is sop for peon housing 1629486;1490030285;asciilifeform;(peon is lucky to even get permission to repaint a wall) 1629487;1490030294;mircea_popescu;hahaha gtfo. 1629488;1490030319;mircea_popescu;wtf permission, what is this bs. 1629489;1490030328;mircea_popescu;o, wait, you have "corporation" landlords over there donntcha. 1629490;1490030338;asciilifeform;some people do 1629491;1490030346;asciilifeform;in the case in question, it was a human one 1629492;1490030367;asciilifeform;(90yo who owns a few dozen properties of various descriptions) 1629493;1490030371;mircea_popescu;so then, negotiate a deal, what. 1629494;1490030397;asciilifeform;i wasn't at their negotiation table, have nfi how it went. 1629495;1490030409;asciilifeform;(but can guess. peons have ~0 negotiating leverage.) 1629496;1490030429;mircea_popescu;i've yet to meet someone who lets as a living, even if part time, who wouldn't kill for a good tenant. 1629497;1490030432;asciilifeform;it's more or less the definition of peonage. 1629498;1490030457;asciilifeform;typically 'good tenant' is one who pays on time, and asks for repairs ~never. 1629499;1490030467;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform peons don't enter into it. the sort of captives in the consolidated shit of their own head who ask for a "solid, useful knowhow item" and then IMMEDIATELY retort "it isn't innovative" when such is presented, however... those doods have problems. 1629500;1490030489;mircea_popescu;depends. irl good tenant is one who doesn't damage the property more than what he pays in rent. 1629501;1490030540;mircea_popescu;surprisingly rare a class, for some reason. 1629502;1490030544;asciilifeform;this is so. 1629503;1490030570;trinque;meatwot folks that own an apartment building have told horrific stories 1629504;1490030578;trinque;human shit on the walls in more than a few cases 1629505;1490030579;mircea_popescu;erryone has a few. 1629506;1490030631;asciilifeform;but also, as i learned experimentally, one that doesn't create 'work' for the owner. for instance, i went to a great many folx who were letting out houses, and they wouldn't hear of 'install dishwasher', even when offered 100% of the (not especially frightening) cost of this mod. 1629507;1490030661;mircea_popescu;well yeah, it's all in there in de "damage property", a very general understanding of "shit that makes my economic position worse" 1629508;1490030667;asciilifeform;they dun want to do 'work'. 'this hovel was good enough for the others, it oughta be good enough for you, if you won't take it there are 25 others who will' 1629509;1490030678;mircea_popescu;lol where the fuck are these 25 others ? 1629510;1490030694;mircea_popescu;i dunno there exista a place inthis world with 90% occupation. maybe beijing. 1629511;1490030704;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: sometimes they showed up almost immediately ! as in, next day i call and 'oops sorry it was already snapped' 1629512;1490030721;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: HOUSES have ~100% occupation, where i live. 1629513;1490030721;mircea_popescu;thishappens sometimes even in 10% occupied real estate cases. 1629514;1490030725;asciilifeform;(flats - not.) 1629515;1490030739;mircea_popescu;ugh. weren't we discussing rents ? wtf already. 1629516;1490030744;asciilifeform;rental houses. 1629517;1490030750;asciilifeform;understand, i shop in a market where the availability is ~0. 1629518;1490030753;mircea_popescu;um. 1629519;1490030778;mircea_popescu;i think the only place where you can properly speaking rent a house is ~europe 1629520;1490030782;asciilifeform;the flats folx have the other problem: typically the landlord is a corp and operates 'by 3ring binder' 1629521;1490030804;asciilifeform;(and quite certainly won't do mods, even if entire cost is covered) 1629522;1490030806;mircea_popescu;which cycles us right back to the earlier mmmkay. 1629523;1490030808;*;mircea_popescu is out of this. 1629524;1490030825;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu leases entire city blocks and probably operates in somewhat different planet. 1629525;1490030915;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629499 << as i understand 'innovative' is a barf trigger word for mircea_popescu , but i don't know of a more appropriate word. if q is re 'what useful things did you lift from microshit', and someone suggests 'fat16', i can only answer 'it was not innovation, did not originate from the loins of microshit.' 1629526;1490030915;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 17:21 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform peons don't enter into it. the sort of captives in the consolidated shit of their own head who ask for a "solid, useful knowhow item" and then IMMEDIATELY retort "it isn't innovative" when such is presented, however... those doods have problems. 1629527;1490030919;mircea_popescu;a house technially is a city block. though they're generally called lots because not usually right in city. but anyway. 1629528;1490030945;mircea_popescu;who cares where it came from ? you did lift from them eh. 1629529;1490030949;mircea_popescu;or what, who else had the item. 1629530;1490030958;asciilifeform;pcdos, for instance. 1629531;1490030966;mircea_popescu;pdos had directx? 1629532;1490030971;asciilifeform;fat16 ! 1629533;1490030996;mircea_popescu;sigh. 1629534;1490030999;asciilifeform;directx is not even A TECHNOLOGY, it's a proprietary microshit api 1629535;1490031008;asciilifeform;how would one go about lifting it ? 1629536;1490031015;mircea_popescu;look, turn it how you will. you got a serious hole in your brain. dun wanna fix it, fine, but that dun mean you don't have it. you do. 1629537;1490031019;asciilifeform;what useful piece can i cut out, and use outside of microshitistan ? 1629538;1490031119;mircea_popescu;not a matter of "oh, mp has allergies" ; not a matter of "check me out, i invented rhetorics and also i'm so smooth ima strawman all over! fat16!11" ; not a matter of anything else, there's no way out of it. 1629539;1490031166;asciilifeform;i'd genuinely like to know what mircea_popescu takes issue with in this thread 1629540;1490031240;mircea_popescu;1. you asked for an item by stated criteria, were provided the item, pretended the item fails a criterion that is actually the opposite of your stated criteria ; 2. when confronted with your ridiculous misbehaviour, you attempted to replace the item with a different item and show you can defeat the different item. 1629541;1490031246;mircea_popescu;there's more, but a coupla suffice. 1629542;1490031251;asciilifeform;i stand by the statement: nothing which is original in microshitistan, is any good; and any which is good in microshitistan, is not the least bit original. 1629543;1490031290;mircea_popescu;i suppose we can add 3, "once 1 and 2 are on the table, take refuge in contradictory schemes". there is no such thing as original technology. for something to be a technology it must be unoriginal. original shit is called literature. 1629544;1490031354;asciilifeform;if mircea_popescu wants to inhabit a mental universe where 'there is no such thing as original technology' and xerox parc circa 1970s is exactly same thing as microshit today -- i can't possibly stop him. 1629545;1490031363;mircea_popescu;bitcoin is morerover a fine example in this vein. it's pretty fucking original. 1629546;1490031364;phf;"How come he doesn't know it? Because he's got flies in his eyes. How can he see he's got flies in his eyes if he's got flies in his eyes?" 1629547;1490031374;mircea_popescu;and it's original throughout. check out those novel data structures~! 1629548;1490031432;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform give an example of this original technology and i'll just say "no pcdos" at it. 1629549;1490031441;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: introducing the nonsensical 'original throughout' device ( nobody else, incl asciilifeform , had ) does not help mircea_popescu's argument 1629550;1490031482;mircea_popescu;interestinf approach, but twas merely an example, not an argument as such. 1629551;1490031505;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying "x is y because bitcoin" i'm saying "x is y and btw, check out bitcoin lulz." 1629552;1490031522;trinque;gotta be able to admit one's political bias plainly, or it warps like so. "microshit is evil therefore I will ignore their output" is not the same as "factually they never once built a thing" 1629553;1490031547;mircea_popescu;he has a point in that they leveraged horizonals in the market to get data. 1629554;1490031556;mircea_popescu;but they did fucking get it, and used it, and for a decade they owned gfx. 1629555;1490031570;mircea_popescu;course opengl also owned it the next decade, and did even less with it. 1629556;1490031592;asciilifeform;trinque: funnily enough, i spend a good chunk of my waking hours 'not ignoring' microshit's output, i earn bread by juggling microshitiana (dealing with, from various directions, malware) 1629557;1490031610;trinque;yeah so you hate it even more then 1629558;1490031612;trinque;lol 1629559;1490031621;trinque;"I have to stare into this thing's asshole 8 hours a day" 1629560;1490031626;mircea_popescu;other part of the problem is that it's too large a corp. their kernel ppl and their directx people were pretty much as related as samsung and apple. 1629561;1490031626;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/relics-of-american-great-again-found-in-mexico/ << Qntra - Relics Of American "Great Again" Found In Mexico 1629562;1490031639;asciilifeform;trinque: understand, i would much ~like~ to find something stimulating, inside that arse 1629563;1490031641;mircea_popescu;o shait, invasion time BingoBoingo ? 1629564;1490031656;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the problem is they never got lucky with that hole. 1629565;1490031656;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Maybe. Serious intl incident material! 1629566;1490031674;*;mircea_popescu would like to see a us-mexico war v3 ? v4 ? 1629567;1490031705;mircea_popescu;good to periodically fight the same neighbour, keeps the spirit stimulated. 1629568;1490031708;mircea_popescu;teh russians know. 1629569;1490031713;trinque;not much airpower there, but probably amply more "asymmetric warfare" inclination 1629570;1490031734;mircea_popescu;trinque the mexican "deep state" has been living in this situation where beheaded chief of police weekly. 1629571;1490031740;mircea_popescu;they're a lot tougher than the us counterparts by now. 1629572;1490031753;trinque;aha, meanwhile americans wilt when a building comes down 1629573;1490031782;*;BingoBoingo thinks v3, but unsure. Would be v4 if Zimmermann telegram, but if Zimmermann telegram would have moved Mexico to act, American might instead be looking towards The Great Already 1629574;1490031806;mircea_popescu;im sure they'll send the late night circuit comedians. what could anyone do to that. 1629575;1490031819;mircea_popescu;the charge of the sarah silverman brigade. 1629576;1490031886;asciilifeform;mexican-war-with-usa makes approx as much sense as pirate war against spanish crown 1629577;1490031907;mircea_popescu;hey, ~same as afghanistan but closer. save on fuel, be green. 1629578;1490031911;mircea_popescu;planet will thankya. 1629579;1490031918;BingoBoingo;!~bash3 1629580;1490031918;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Error: "bash3" is not a valid command. 1629581;1490031923;asciilifeform;(what'd make the pirates turn into a navy ? and whattodo after victory, and there are no moar galleons to take gold off?) 1629582;1490031955;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you can swear allegiance to the flag of the united nationx of mexico just as well. can even save the original two words of the whole signage 1629583;1490031956;trinque;ah I could see the same thing as turkey and EU with mexico down the road 1629584;1490031973;mircea_popescu;trinque mexico's no turkey though. 1629585;1490031975;trinque;they get flooded with venezuelans or w/e 1629586;1490031980;trinque;threaten to send 'em over 1629587;1490031991;mircea_popescu;ah totally. 1629588;1490032149;mircea_popescu;anyway. typically pirate war against the crown wants you know, the fortress of martinique. and gibraltar. 1629589;1490032161;asciilifeform;aha! 1629590;1490032165;mircea_popescu;kinda ~same as "fight for freedom" of strategically placed nothings. 1629591;1490032168;mircea_popescu;taiwan, what have you 1629592;1490032172;asciilifeform;i can entirely see mexicans taking a specific-something. 1629593;1490032197;mircea_popescu;yeah, gate to texas, gate to cali, that sorta thing. hook the white girl's knees spread nice and wide, what. 1629594;1490032330;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629328 << these are surprisingly great 'cpu for the dollar', because ~severely~ underpriced , even for a junk market item : they're ~entirely worthless to mactards who would 'use as printed on the box', because last 7 or so crapple os versions will refuse to run on it. but potentially very valuable for, e.g., bsd user. 1629595;1490032330;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 03:45 ben_vulpes: no, specifically the macintosh ppc g5's 1629596;1490032352;trinque;they run openbsd great 1629597;1490032354;mircea_popescu;ah that's a pretty great point huh. 1629598;1490032368;mircea_popescu;nice alternative to the linux-on-amd freezeout 1629599;1490032400;asciilifeform;and unlike, e.g., most sun boxes, they have normal 'earthling' pci, and reasonably obtainable sdram. 1629600;1490032402;trinque;people are selling the minis like they're worth their weight in trash 1629601;1490032413;asciilifeform;trinque: there was a g5 'mini' ?! 1629602;1490032420;trinque;no, g4 1629603;1490032424;asciilifeform;aah 1629604;1490032437;trinque;but 10 of them in a stack beats "containers" 1629605;1490032441;asciilifeform;g4 was not impressive imho, no 64bitness. 1629606;1490032449;asciilifeform;you're stuck with 4GB. 1629607;1490032472;asciilifeform;i threw out my g4s. 1629608;1490032499;trinque;I've found uses for them, but also have several of the g5 towers and the imac g5 1629609;1490032515;mircea_popescu;can be a router or w/e 1629610;1490032519;trinque;aha 1629611;1490032521;trinque;mail, whatever 1629612;1490032526;trinque;doesn't need gigs of ram and 64bit 1629613;1490032540;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: no GBe -- not , imho, any kind of router. 1629614;1490032553;mircea_popescu;ah there is that. 1629615;1490032629;asciilifeform;trinque: for 'microscopic task but needs own box', i prefer something more like pogo, which is fanless, solidstate, and zero-maintenance. vs ancient clunking monster , howling like vacuum cleaner and filled with dying mechanical hdds 1629616;1490032632;mircea_popescu;course depends what you have installed. plenty of places on mbit cable, no fiber, no plans to ever fiber. 1629617;1490032646;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: even there, 0 reason for lan to be anything but GB 1629618;1490032656;mircea_popescu;but yes, fanless pogo has some major mojo 1629619;1490032659;trinque;so lan sits on gigabit switch 1629620;1490032667;trinque;but cable modem is not >100, not nearly 1629621;1490032669;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well, 1 reason : you got a g4 lol 1629622;1490032701;trinque;also what's this "one router" 1629623;1490032718;mircea_popescu;trinque i got some 100 MBps pipes, but yeah, can't just pop a random 50 whatever from radio shack on me 1629624;1490032721;mircea_popescu;em* 1629625;1490032735;trinque;my modem's 300 but try getting a connection like that in the tx burbs 1629626;1490032762;trinque;moving downtown though, so maybe I can get something a little less barbaric 1629627;1490032821;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629345 << eventually happens to everything. as per, even, the 'regression to mean' thread. 1629628;1490032821;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 03:49 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it occurs to me, btw, that the scam whereby people who were holding jobs shares were converted to cook shares is one of the cruelest things in nature. 1629629;1490032823;trinque;asciilifeform: pointedly they lack the "management engine" shit put in later CPUs 1629630;1490032825;trinque;or giant honking EFI 1629631;1490032842;asciilifeform;trinque: my 6502 also lacks 'management engine' 1629632;1490032850;trinque;oh, same thing eh? 1629633;1490032880;asciilifeform;but you can in fact get 64bit machines with 0 blobolade. 1629634;1490032886;asciilifeform;the very same alphas, for instance. 1629635;1490032895;trinque;or... g5 1629636;1490032901;asciilifeform;the (classical, not the rebranded x86 idiocy) sgi ones, also 1629637;1490032903;asciilifeform;the g5. 1629638;1490032928;asciilifeform;the g4 however is approx as useful as old p3. 1629639;1490032940;asciilifeform;( do you pick up p3 when someone throws out ? i -- no longer do ) 1629640;1490032946;trinque;runs (for example) a test server for deedbot just fine 1629641;1490032973;asciilifeform;i'm sure it does 1629642;1490033016;trinque;and burn minimal power 1629643;1490033022;trinque;yes, not going to phuctor on it 1629644;1490033029;asciilifeform;but not only do i actually pay per kWatt/hr here (in summer time : TWICE: again to remove the waste heat!) and have quite limited space, but there are only so many p3 you can hang off ups. 1629645;1490033031;trinque;but will perform various tasks of a household 1629646;1490033035;asciilifeform;and n+1st ups is several $k usd. 1629647;1490033040;trinque;holy shit I just said 1629648;1490033042;trinque;32W 1629649;1490033044;trinque;idle 1629650;1490033055;asciilifeform;trinque: which box was this 1629651;1490033058;trinque;the mini g4 1629652;1490033061;asciilifeform;aah 1629653;1490033073;trinque;they cron-inate and whatnot 1629654;1490033082;*;asciilifeform puts on list of 'to not leave in dumpster, if seen in one' 1629655;1490033109;mircea_popescu;lol 1629656;1490033114;mircea_popescu;it's a wonder you don't drive a ford pickup 1629657;1490033141;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i'd own a dump truck with a crane -- if had where to keep it. 1629658;1490033157;mircea_popescu;well... move to texas. you can get crane garage there 1629659;1490033184;asciilifeform;one of these days i must go there. 1629660;1490033192;asciilifeform;( it is, for instance, where the pet was born. ) 1629661;1490033201;trinque;neato 1629662;1490033212;trinque;I have a feeling you'd tolerate the people a bit moar than DC 1629663;1490033217;asciilifeform;probably. 1629664;1490033223;mircea_popescu;either that or get shot. 1629665;1490033237;asciilifeform;i can get shot for free here!111 1629666;1490033298;mircea_popescu;not the same thing if white man does it. 1629667;1490033348;asciilifeform;tru, classier. perhaps i can be shot in a proper saloon, next to a spittoon. 1629668;1490033423;mircea_popescu;i first read "next to a stripper" 1629669;1490033430;mircea_popescu;then i noticed it didnt say stripper. 1629670;1490033432;mircea_popescu;why not! 1629671;1490033435;asciilifeform;also not a bad place! 1629672;1490033485;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C9A79279C6DD69B5BAEA5FD7DBC0347F4206583C96398C75146635ED3D1D446 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1646...2357 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '160.80.1.232 (ssh-rsa key from 160.80.1.232 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (ipsc2.ccda.uniroma2.it. IT RM 62) 1629673;1490033485;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7C9A79279C6DD69B5BAEA5FD7DBC0347F4206583C96398C75146635ED3D1D446 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1728...7809 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '160.80.1.232 (ssh-rsa key from 160.80.1.232 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (ipsc2.ccda.uniroma2.it. IT RM 62) 1629674;1490033497;*;mircea_popescu tries for a few minutes in vain to turn the strange habit of porn actors of spitting into gaping assholes into some kind of a spittoon joke, gives up 1629675;1490033502;mircea_popescu;i'm losing my edge! 1629676;1490033523;asciilifeform;!$ ssh 160.80.1.232 1629677;1490033523;scriba;ssh banner of 160.80.1.232 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 1629678;1490034969;asciilifeform;quite unrelatedly, asciilifeform went through own and relatives' dwellings with geiger counter and turned up one of those 'barbaric' radium-dialed clocks (zinc sulphide long ago decayed, so no light, but mighty gamma.) 1629679;1490035042;asciilifeform;and this reminded me, did mircea_popescu ever write a piece re the 'radium girls' ? the ones that licked the brushes and rotted. they are brought up as darlings of the 'unions' era, 'wurker's rights', etc. but in actuality they not only licked the brushes but painted own lips, nails, jewelry, etc. 1629680;1490035233;mircea_popescu;i thnk i must've. 1629681;1490035246;asciilifeform;can haz link ? 1629682;1490035246;mircea_popescu;also the dork selling "Radium wateR" 1629683;1490035247;mircea_popescu;lessee 1629684;1490035280;Framedragger;don't forget radium "shines at night!" toothpaste 1629685;1490035320;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2010/corporatiile-si-responsabilitatea/#selection-33.0-33.93 << ro as it turns out. 1629686;1490035357;asciilifeform;neato, ty midnightmagic 1629687;1490035359;asciilifeform;rrr 1629688;1490035360;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu 1629689;1490035397;*;asciilifeform thinks the default behaviour of 'tab complete' in this irctron is quite ridiculous 1629690;1490035453;mircea_popescu;alphabetic order neh ? 1629691;1490035456;mircea_popescu;should it count your references ? 1629692;1490035481;asciilifeform;imho sanity would be to sort by lines-in-past-N-minute 1629693;1490035492;mircea_popescu;count references in scrollback ? 1629694;1490035492;asciilifeform;with exponential decay. 1629695;1490035495;asciilifeform;aha 1629696;1490035502;mircea_popescu;tbh, the intensive referential way we use irc is entirely... original 1629697;1490035510;mircea_popescu;never before in the history of this tech has a trilema existed 1629698;1490035511;asciilifeform;afaik. 1629699;1490037741;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/20/aapl-stock-fraud-cca-2011/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - AAPL stock fraud cca. 2011 1629700;1490039492;shinohai;White supremacists are getting darker these days: http://archive.is/cYb2B 1629701;1490042805;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, the state of casual gaming is completely fucked up. so other than utter throwaways, stuff that looks like someone's undegrad project, the ~entire market of ipad-likes (stuff that works in the browser, or else via a "light" client for windows/mac, or else as a ipad/android etc app) is wholly like this : 1629702;1490042865;mircea_popescu;1. the company (say r2games, there's a few but identical entirely) hires out a bunch of cubical drones, has them churn out a "game" to 3-ring binder spec. you prolly know the shit, stamina-constellations-etc. 1629703;1490042894;mircea_popescu;there's major reuse, the "voices" of characters in "different" games often end up the same digital asset etc. 1629704;1490042963;mircea_popescu;2. the "social media platform" (say, g2arcade, there's a bunch but identical entirely) make a whitelabel with the company, pushes the game on "its" users (the catch being that they try to get the user to use their "accounts" rather than the company's -- and there's a lot of utterly corporate-like entrenchment around this topic.) 1629705;1490043064;mircea_popescu;3. the "payment platform" (all of these work on micropayments, obv) is a wrapper style thing (say, paymentwall, but there's at least 500 entirely identical items vying for a pie $lice with absolutely no distinction whatsoever) processes cards and also links to a pile of... i don'\t even know what these are. looks a lot like the silver age of porn really, early 2000s, where the various paysites kept trying to push each other. 1629706;1490043127;mircea_popescu;so gtarcade -> r2games -> paymentwall -> paypal/qiwiwallet/unipin wallet/webmoney/indomog/cherry credits/mycard/mol (money online -- fucking george constanza lives i swear) and so on and so forth. 1629707;1490043138;mircea_popescu;this is the "digital economy". 1629708;1490043144;mircea_popescu;it's literally like watching flies fuck. 1629709;1490043188;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: was 'casual came' at any point -- in its ~commercial~ ( vs tetrises, alexey pajitnov ) phase of life -- ever anything other than this ? 1629710;1490043221;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: "the jerseys" "was located" 1629711;1490043241;mircea_popescu;yes. at some glorious point in the 90s it was ~same as a bar. you went with your friends to a dedicated bit of real estate. 1629712;1490043270;mircea_popescu;!~google "book of the gord" 1629713;1490043271;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Acts of Gord : Love the Gord , Fear the Gord: ; Acts of Gord - The Book of Annoyances: ; Acts of Gord - The Book of Apocalypse: 1629714;1490043281;mircea_popescu;^ rather typical exponent. 1629715;1490043383;BingoBoingo;ben_vulpes: ty fxd 1629716;1490043393;asciilifeform;dunno that it makes sense to deal with coin arcades and 'konsoomer'-portable gamez, as same animal 1629717;1490043401;mircea_popescu;and why not ? 1629718;1490043410;asciilifeform;arcades were a social activity, only partially about the game itself. 1629719;1490043418;mircea_popescu;the missing link is the attempted "ipad-powered restaurant" by that idiot from consumer computing, that we discussed here. 1629720;1490043439;mircea_popescu;these are EXACTLY the same thing ; the arcade and the ipad exist because ameritards exist because oil was a thing and pittsburg was a thinbg before that etc. 1629721;1490043446;mircea_popescu;it's like disco but for the 90s. 1629722;1490043457;mircea_popescu;no longer looking to get laid, but still the same herbivore beasts. 1629723;1490043512;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no but see ... this crap is also .. .only partially about the game itself. they... got accounts!1 1629724;1490043520;mircea_popescu;\wouldn't you like to link your facebook profile ? for security ? and etc ? 1629725;1490043552;*;trinque hears the gushing of printed money into the abyss 1629726;1490043558;asciilifeform;i actually have ~0 idea what specifically supports the 'mainstream' commercial existence of the ipad. (as in the old ebay thread with mircea_popescu , it turns out that asciilifeform's uses for various items are often quite nonstandard ) 1629727;1490043589;trinque;mine serves to play a ported Riven at the moment, otherwise sits at bottom of a drawer 1629728;1490043605;trinque;might be the only actual gaming use for such a thing, the point and click adventure games 1629729;1490043621;trinque;originally released in 1997 btw 1629730;1490043631;asciilifeform;i haven't met a likable touchpad game, yet 1629731;1490043652;asciilifeform;in just about every case 'i wish i had a mouse, why is my cursor finger-sized' 1629732;1490043657;trinque;well, those descended-from-hypercard games are basically tap all over the place, touch works fine 1629733;1490043664;mircea_popescu;^ 1629734;1490043673;asciilifeform;yeah but they were generally made for mouse. 1629735;1490043693;asciilifeform;i tried once to play various 'scummvm' classics on a patched ipad, it was blergh 1629736;1490043701;mircea_popescu;there's browser versions for most if not all of them 1629737;1490043706;asciilifeform;'i want to click on the pirate, not the beer mug' 1629738;1490043759;mircea_popescu;anyway, if you're curious, visit the offerings of the mentioned. "league of angels" "battle for kingdom" "throne of throne" "legend of story" they've a few hundred of such field-appropriate thesaurus permutations. 1629739;1490043795;mircea_popescu;none of them have clickable blocks smaller than about a child's fist anyway. 1629740;1490043804;trinque;the malinvestment called zynga caused it, more or less 1629741;1490043820;asciilifeform;'extruded product' 1629742;1490043827;asciilifeform;quite like american 'food', 'films'... 1629743;1490043843;mircea_popescu;trinque not an expert other than by need ; but i suspect zynga is a different strand. these are the azn "fantasy" offerings, wanna-be d2 and h3, by the looks of them. 1629744;1490043867;mircea_popescu;and they do try to be all respectable, there's always a "arrow to the knee" reference and so. entirely chinese type of idiocy. 1629745;1490043895;mircea_popescu;whereas the zynga stuff is more in the vein of eve and such things, clearly made by and for project managers. 1629746;1490043935;trinque;the "social media 'gaming'" thing though, was large part them. many of their games bolted directly to facebook, i.e. inside the thing 1629747;1490043939;ben_vulpes;the moo3 rewrite for touchscreen isn't a...bad...rewrite... 1629748;1490043951;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/BiywN << obligatory. 1629749;1490043953;ben_vulpes;touchscreens are just woefully inadequate devices for complexity mgmt. 1629750;1490043976;mircea_popescu;trinque yeah. there's one actually ingenious strand, that somewhat straddles the zynga-likes and the r2-likes : the eggers, you know those ? 1629751;1490043976;trinque;then it was race to the bottom in terms of easiest yes, extruded product, to bolt to facebook 1629752;1490043983;trinque;I do not 1629753;1490044001;mircea_popescu;the fundamental mechanic being that you have animals which you gotta mate and then raise the eggs and you can get varying stuff out of the eggs and etc. 1629754;1490044006;shinohai;No surprise the cattle wish to play Farmville 1629755;1490044022;trinque;oh yeah, gets women to go "oh cute" for 5min 1629756;1490044024;mircea_popescu;see, the zinga/eve/fb games are all timers, basically. clicjk here to start a timer is the whole proposition. 1629757;1490044030;ben_vulpes;i'm in the habit of installing gb/gba emulators on my friends ipnohes 1629758;1490044039;trinque;controls are butts 1629759;1490044039;ben_vulpes;apple borks the thing remotely within a month 1629760;1490044040;ben_vulpes;every time 1629761;1490044048;mircea_popescu;whereas the r2 games are "stamina" games. ie, basic dungeon costs 6 and "elite dungeon" (whatever) costs 12 and you have 100 or 200 and get 12 a minute. 1629762;1490044055;ben_vulpes;nevertheless, the response is "holy fuck, i haven't had this much fun playing games on my phone...ever!" 1629763;1490044062;trinque;I played through wizards and warriors on ipnoje 1629764;1490044064;ben_vulpes;"yeah, and now how pissed are you at apple?" 1629765;1490044072;mircea_popescu;what is gb ? 1629766;1490044077;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: at one point (the last time asciilifeform gave half a shit, 2010 or so) it was considered ~impossible to get an emulator of whatever kind, past the censors 1629767;1490044081;Framedragger;correlate gameplay to 'personality traits' => political 'lifestyles' (bernays and all modern 'voter-shaping' organizations) => sell data => $? 1629768;1490044087;trinque;mircea_popescu: gameboy 1629769;1490044090;mircea_popescu;oh oh. 1629770;1490044092;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: well you don't go through the censors obvs 1629771;1490044096;*;mircea_popescu never got into that. 1629772;1490044106;ben_vulpes;"i'm going to put a fun thing on your phone. apple will break it within the month, because they're assholes." 1629773;1490044107;mircea_popescu;Framedragger i suppose that's what they tell "investor" suckers to get them to pay out. 1629774;1490044110;ben_vulpes;it's an educational project, asciilifeform . 1629775;1490044119;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: how would crapple break a properly jailbroken box ? 1629776;1490044130;asciilifeform;in every case it is the luser who breaks (by 'ooh i'ma UPDATE!111') 1629777;1490044131;mircea_popescu;truth be told ~most of this crap is paid for by consumer-"investors" rather than by their kids spending $2 to "recharge" 1629778;1490044139;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: users don't get a choice any more, not really 1629779;1490044147;ben_vulpes;also these devices are not properly jailbroken 1629780;1490044163;trinque;there's an emulator snuck through apple approval processes every now and then 1629781;1490044164;mircea_popescu;it's not even very clear they wish to play. plenty are quite happy watching other dudes play and stream it live. 1629782;1490044169;ben_vulpes;"here's a taste of life as curated by the competent, aren't you mad at the fake lifestyle you've been fed?" 1629783;1490044172;phf;you can install scummvm on an ipad without jailbreaking 1629784;1490044174;mircea_popescu;which incidentally reminds me of how poor kids "played" in the 90s too. 1629785;1490044175;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: aaah 'soft' jailbreak, was it, 'till next reboot' 1629786;1490044184;ben_vulpes;not eve, just 'sideload' 1629787;1490044187;ben_vulpes;not even* 1629788;1490044191;asciilifeform;phf: that must be new/recent 1629789;1490044228;phf;it was always the case. you deploye whatever custom app through standard xcode/blah infrastructure. you can't do it as a casual of course 1629790;1490044237;asciilifeform;phf: ah those. 1629791;1490044260;asciilifeform;iirc (again when i last had a crapple dev acct) there was a limit, was it, 100 (?) boxes of 'sideload' per acct. 1629792;1490044268;asciilifeform;so was never a mass thing. 1629793;1490044308;asciilifeform;and the signature would be good for a few wks at most. 1629794;1490044318;ben_vulpes;you can self-sign trivially these days. 1629795;1490044359;ben_vulpes;what does it take to actually xcode these days? 100us/yr still? 1629796;1490044369;asciilifeform;0idea 1629797;1490044373;asciilifeform;i thought ben_vulpes was the iphonist 1629798;1490044390;ben_vulpes;'iphonist' === 'click the ok and fix issue button' 1629799;1490044391;asciilifeform;back in ye olden days, it was 100. 1629800;1490044394;mircea_popescu;i think it's 50 now 1629801;1490044423;phf;relatedly, aquaria is a neat action adventure for ipad. i think that's the only ipad game i actually enjoyed, though it's not particularly creative. swim around enjoy pretty art 1629802;1490044467;*;mircea_popescu despises "games" without mechanics. 1629803;1490044637;ben_vulpes;upstack, trinque asciilifeform y'figure the g5's will only take a bsd? i've got a pile of links for 'linux on g5', but have yet to start sucking the spittoon down. would rather know if actually impossible up front. 1629804;1490044650;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: iirc trinque is the go-to man re g5. 1629805;1490044653;asciilifeform;and possibly BingoBoingo . 1629806;1490044662;asciilifeform;i don't even presently have 1. 1629807;1490044684;ben_vulpes;no reason one couldn't compile a kernel for it, right? 1629808;1490044688;asciilifeform;could! 1629809;1490044719;*;ben_vulpes halfway looking forward to the next gentoo quest 1629810;1490044719;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629753 << the world of 'neuro-typical' folx who have 'no theorems to prove', and nothing with which to legitimately to busy themselves, is ugly indeed. these people oughta be occupied with raising ~actual~ chickens etc. 1629811;1490044719;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 21:06 mircea_popescu: the fundamental mechanic being that you have animals which you gotta mate and then raise the eggs and you can get varying stuff out of the eggs and etc. 1629812;1490044760;ben_vulpes;breeding chickens is a thing with which to legitimately busy oneself. 1629813;1490044765;phf;both trinque and bingoboingo are bsd people, so that's probably why. i ran linux on g3-g5 2000-2010 1629814;1490044770;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: well yes! 1629815;1490044777;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: thread was re 'simulated chicken farmings' 1629816;1490044783;ben_vulpes;oh oh 1629817;1490044792;ben_vulpes;well more likely they have not the land with which. 1629818;1490044795;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: imho it is a waste, these folx could quite enjoy life as ~actual~ chicken handlers 1629819;1490044798;ben_vulpes;even plants likely beyond those folks. 1629820;1490044800;asciilifeform;aha 1629821;1490044804;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this one is a particular gem, conceptually, in the vein of that romanian "s-o-ntilnit prostu' cu hotu'" (ie, "the thief and the idiot met", shorthand for a certain sort of narrow horizon happiness). ie, "oh, this egg takes EIGHT hours to hatch! that one 24!! it's so much better!!11 1629822;1490044807;mircea_popescu;how to sell pe 1629823;1490044816;mircea_popescu;ople on the notion of hanging around waiting for timers. 1629824;1490044816;trinque;ben_vulpes: putting a gentoo on one would not be a waste of time 1629825;1490044830;mircea_popescu;very VERY anthropologically interesting. 1629826;1490044831;asciilifeform;trinque: consider publishing a recipe 1629827;1490044842;trinque;I haven't one, is why 1629828;1490044845;asciilifeform;aah 1629829;1490044849;trinque;my gentoos are x86-64 1629830;1490044884;trinque;not that it should be terribly difficult once you figure out launching whichever bootloader from openfirmware, iirc yaboot 1629831;1490044898;asciilifeform;trinque: all of the iron is documented/driverized by nao ? 1629832;1490044902;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform has nfi ) 1629833;1490044914;ben_vulpes;kinda the working theory, we'll see how it holds up in battle. 1629834;1490044916;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform anyway, they COULD NOT enjoy life as chicken handlers, because they'd do dumb shit. there's a reason situation with 1k droolers with chicken coop 20 chickens each turned into 1 chicken farm, 20k chickens, designed by 1, ran by 10, and 989 droolers on ipads waiting for the counter to count down. 1629835;1490044945;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i thought the reason was petro->chickenfeed conversion and economics of scale. 1629836;1490044952;mircea_popescu;i do not believe so. 1629837;1490044966;mircea_popescu;the reason is the failure of the workforce to keep up with the complexity of scientifico-technical world. 1629838;1490044984;mircea_popescu;note that in any industry, it is LABOR that is the killer cost, not MATERIALS. 1629839;1490044988;mircea_popescu;this imo disposes of the dispute. 1629840;1490045008;asciilifeform;i am still thinking about the 'radium girls' mircea_popescu . for some reason most 'left'-flavoured historians don't mention the fact that they were paid 2-3x the market rate for 'generic unskilled gurl' 1629841;1490045019;asciilifeform;and did quite easy work. what, not 1 of them wondered 'why' ? 1629842;1490045021;mircea_popescu;"where can i find a guy who is safe to work in a datacenter ?" "where 1% of the 1% gather", doublespoken as "for 100k a year". 1629843;1490045041;asciilifeform;the radium girl was exactly mircea_popescu's 'twerker': 'value extracted from marginal' 1629844;1490045042;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform they all wondered and they all had an answer. guess the answerr ? 1629845;1490045061;asciilifeform;'because oooh hey i need to paint my lips again' 1629846;1490045081;mircea_popescu;nah. "i'm totally worth it ; because i'm just that good ; because i'm special ; because i'm too dumb to realise how trite i am." 1629847;1490045093;asciilifeform;aaaah. 1629848;1490045094;trinque;she found the one trick they don't wnat you to know 1629849;1490045100;mircea_popescu;look at all the "bitcoin ceos". i ask them this... and they think... i insulted them. 1629850;1490045111;mircea_popescu;trinque found it, licked it. 1629851;1490045121;mircea_popescu;chucka sleeps warm in the taiga tonight. 1629852;1490045127;mircea_popescu;and tomorrow -- it's jawtime! 1629853;1490045151;asciilifeform;btw i recently heard that the 'last radium gurl' died in 2014. apparently there are folx who are unkillable even by it. 1629854;1490045174;mircea_popescu;radiation is noxious not toxic. it culls the herd, doesn't end it. 1629855;1490045185;asciilifeform;she could've been valuable experimental subject for the radioprotectant pharama folx (never heard of'em ? subj went out of style, at least publicly, in 1970s afaik) 1629856;1490045194;asciilifeform;*pharma 1629857;1490045200;mircea_popescu;in fact, there's quite nothing in chemistry like radiation. all poisons eventually kill everyone as you increase the dosage. even water. radiation however... 1629858;1490045225;asciilifeform;dunno that the 'hormesis' hypothesis ever panned out 1629859;1490045228;asciilifeform;in either direction 1629860;1490045251;mircea_popescu;sure it did. most therapy is based on toxic agents. 1629861;1490045260;mircea_popescu;paracetamol extends your life plenty. 1629862;1490045261;asciilifeform;no, specifically 'radiation hormesis' 1629863;1490045268;mircea_popescu;oh that, definitely not. 1629864;1490045277;mircea_popescu;in some cancers, but even then dubious as all hell. 1629865;1490045294;asciilifeform;as in 'creatures evolved with a detectable background, they NEED it' or, in weaker form, 'it does 0 to them' 1629866;1490045318;mircea_popescu;nobody needs it. then again, background radiation does ~0, give or take a few cancers 1629867;1490045358;asciilifeform;what even counts as 'background'. fun exercise is to take ordinary geiger and try in a room with -- then without -- people. 1629868;1490045366;asciilifeform;notice the difference. 1629869;1490045370;mircea_popescu;then - without adobe brick. 1629870;1490045379;asciilifeform;Sr-90 in bones. 1629871;1490045388;asciilifeform;(~everyone born after '45) 1629872;1490045418;mircea_popescu;yeah, this is a good point, huh. 1629873;1490045425;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cinderblock (usa) is a champ. followed by 'fancy' tiles (granite, various) 1629874;1490045439;mircea_popescu;"they don't make 'em like they used to" "well, they didn't use to have to use sr-90 / ca-40 mix!" 1629875;1490045448;asciilifeform;aha 1629876;1490045456;asciilifeform;recall the thread re the cathedral roofs ? 1629877;1490045477;asciilifeform;( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-01#1117527 , possibly elsewhere ) 1629878;1490045477;a111;Logged on 2015-05-01 03:02 asciilifeform: re: how, famously, semiconductor folks used to buy up medieval lead roofs from cathedrals, etc. to get low-rad material 1629879;1490045493;mircea_popescu;cinderblock ie, "wouldn't you like to lvie in a hut made of concentrated furnace waste" ? 1629880;1490045511;asciilifeform;notably nobody ever gets asked 'wouldja like to...' 1629881;1490045544;asciilifeform;the waste -- WILL be used. to build. 1629882;1490045553;asciilifeform;and plebes -- will inhabit. 1629883;1490045607;asciilifeform;( most americans live in cardboard dwellings. but they work, shop, idle about, in cinderblock walls. ) 1629884;1490045625;asciilifeform;ditto blocks of flats. 1629885;1490045637;asciilifeform;(typically outside wall -- pressed ash, complete with thorium, yes) 1629886;1490045669;trinque;I can't think of any better use for that. 1629887;1490045672;trinque;lol 1629888;1490045761;ben_vulpes;likelihood of earthquakes makes for robust buildings where i live 1629889;1490045801;trinque;thorium in the walls is right up there with mircea_popescu's http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629337 1629890;1490045801;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 03:47 mircea_popescu: imagine if in a few years the actual fucking chunks of metal are the point of worship. "oh man, that's tech! who can make straight angles anymore!" 1629891;1490045831;trinque;ben_vulpes: ah nothing will stand up through the next big san andreas fault slip 1629892;1490045841;ben_vulpes;trinque: not usably, no 1629893;1490045848;asciilifeform;to maybe revisit upstack, some folx 'marginal' and have very little to offer economically other than 'morts', 'willing to clear mines', 'clean melted reactor' 1629894;1490045853;ben_vulpes;but won't kill quite so many folks this time. 1629895;1490045884;asciilifeform;and who is to even say who they are. programmer, growing sclerotic in his chair, does he die more slowly than the radium girl ? 1629896;1490045898;asciilifeform;or any less dead. 1629897;1490046077;trinque;but I don't think the person's reasoning involves their uselessness 1629898;1490046079;trinque;quite the contrary 1629899;1490046092;trinque;what loser did you ever meet who was solidly convinced of the truth? 1629900;1490048024;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform on contemplation, the need-radiation organisms are probably bacteria. i imagine it figures heftily in the "endless adaptability of life on earth" for anything with short (subweek ?) cycles. from coprophyta to drosophila, most of the biomass. 1629901;1490048046;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tricky, conflates 'individual needs' with 'species needs' 1629902;1490048067;asciilifeform;quite elementarily 'species -- needs', otherwise ~0 mutation and ~0 adaptation to changing environs 1629903;1490048072;mircea_popescu;myeah. though if it's proper to speak of you as individual, why exactly not of 1 bn worth of bacterial cells together ? 1629904;1490048079;mircea_popescu;what, special because glued ? 1629905;1490048118;mircea_popescu;(this is just a play on the fundamental fact that THERE IS NO MEANING IN NATURE. there's no such thing as "people" or "individual" or "life" or "god" etc irl. all psychogenic noise, the happenstance branches of your own process of organizing the exterior, unrelated to the exterior.) 1629906;1490048146;asciilifeform;normally 'special' because 'specialized multi-cell organs', rather than simply 'glued' 1629907;1490048152;mircea_popescu;orly. 1629908;1490048169;asciilifeform;speaking strictly of the elementary diff b/w 'man and fungus' 1629909;1490048179;mircea_popescu;shorthand merely. 1629910;1490048190;asciilifeform;0 to do with the psychiatric 'i'm speshul!' tho. 1629911;1490048204;mircea_popescu;well, very little to do, let's say 1629912;1490048211;mircea_popescu;naught besides the obvious "happens in a head". 1629913;1490048262;asciilifeform;but does relate to the radiation thing, deinococcus radiodurans laughs at dose that's thermonuke every other living thing, but it very much helps that one deinococcus radiodurans is readily 'fungible', will substitute for any other in the dish. 1629914;1490048288;asciilifeform;whereas if instead of dish you have a mouse, having such things as white cells, liver, other 'specialized parts', then considerably higher bar. 1629915;1490048294;mircea_popescu;not EXACTLY. just, substitute to your standards. 1629916;1490048447;asciilifeform;( it is not even really correct to say 'one bacterium readily stands in for another', the dish does not live and die 'as group' ) 1629917;1490048463;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1629918;1490048481;mircea_popescu;nor, for that matter, do you. 1629919;1490048494;asciilifeform;aha -- interestingly, ~90% of a freshly dead mouse, or man, is 'alive' 1629920;1490048494;mircea_popescu;~no cells present at your birth are still there, seems to not bother your sense of identity. 1629921;1490048498;asciilifeform;if it could walk away ! 1629922;1490048530;asciilifeform;some folx have finicky and easily bothered 'senses of identity'. not i 1629923;1490048572;mircea_popescu;so then you know, arbitrarily defined cell collection is arbitrarily defined cell collection. hoop. 1629924;1490048580;asciilifeform;(i'd quite happily walk into the mythical teleporter, for instance.) 1629925;1490048646;trinque;I dunno what changes there distinct from you falling asleep in one spot, being moved 5ft over, and waking up 1629926;1490048686;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: again, not 'arbitrary' for purpose of subj , put a bullet ( or dose of gamma, or whatnot ) through bacterial culture, and it closes the hole in a few hrs, and who could say there ever was a hole. but try same hole through mouse, or man. 1629927;1490048699;mircea_popescu;depending on hole, ~same. 1629928;1490048701;trinque;man does the same at scale 1629929;1490048704;mircea_popescu;your girl got earrings yes ? 1629930;1490048714;trinque;blow up berlin, later, no hole 1629931;1490048731;mircea_popescu;also trinque's. gotta use large enough dishes. 1629932;1490048746;asciilifeform;trinque: uniquely bad example, ww1+2 put a very permanent, i suspect, hole through 'euro civilization' 1629933;1490048754;asciilifeform;that will not likely close, it'll be pushing up the flowers. 1629934;1490048765;mircea_popescu;just like the mongols did. 1629935;1490048772;asciilifeform;it'll close strictly in the 'hunchback will straighten in his grave' sense. 1629936;1490048790;mircea_popescu;europe is eternal, unlike africa, americas etc. a lot like china, actually. 1629937;1490048811;asciilifeform;well the geological europe aint going anywhere, no 1629938;1490048835;trinque;asciilifeform: same sloshing of equilibrium when you kill those bacteria, depending on which you got 1629939;1490048865;asciilifeform;'отряд не заметил потери бойца' (tm) (r) 1629940;1490048954;asciilifeform;somehow i suspect that when mircea_popescu gets into an airplane, he would like to find that it has triply- or higher- redundant avionics system, rather than 'oh it is redundant because if this one goes down, there will be another plane, with some other bloke in it, some other day, dun worry.' 1629941;1490048968;mircea_popescu;lel 1629942;1490049005;mircea_popescu;yes, mp so likes. but this is special pleading. mp also likes women, bacteria dishes, boys in this order. 1629943;1490049009;asciilifeform;and yes, stalin famously uttered the sage wisdom, 'we ain't got any nonreplaceable people here' 1629944;1490049020;asciilifeform;(which sadly was not so, he turned out... nonreplaceable, himself.) 1629945;1490049053;mircea_popescu;nobody with a name is replaceable. this follows from the definitions. 1629946;1490049065;asciilifeform;(i wonder if stevejobs ever claimed 'we ain't got any nonreplaceables') 1629947;1490049072;mircea_popescu;"why did you put the label on the jar, mr rutherford ?" "to distinguish it from another jar." 1629948;1490049101;mircea_popescu;"does that mean the other jar couldn't then replace this one ?" "that's EXACTLY what it means!" 1629949;1490049118;asciilifeform;y'know, many folx name comps/autos/rifles/etc. 1629950;1490049123;asciilifeform;still fungibles. 1629951;1490049130;mircea_popescu;not according to the many folks. 1629952;1490049158;asciilifeform;'one time we got lost in the woods, and i was afraid that i would have to eat Tippy. then we were rescued, and i put Tippy back into the fridge, next to the other sandwiches.' 1629953;1490049158;mircea_popescu;"i don't give a shit about rutherford's labels" dun reduce to "there were none" except in your own frame. 1629954;1490049163;asciilifeform;(i forget, where) 1629955;1490049167;mircea_popescu;lol 1629956;1490049179;mircea_popescu;sounds like bbs to me. 1629957;1490049196;asciilifeform;somewhere. i found it on a chalkboard, in uni. 1629958;1490049196;mircea_popescu;gosh golly, "pushing the envelope" was such a quaint affair in 1985. 1629959;1490049523;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/C6pH9/?raw=true 1629960;1490049524;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1629961;1490049887;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes et al : g5 is valuable , on top of other reasons, to test 'bigendian' behaviours of various proggies. 1629962;1490049915;asciilifeform;( anyone here tried trb on bigendian ? i -- have not ) 1629963;1490050218;ben_vulpes;not yet 1629964;1490050273;*;trinque tried, got segfault upon running the binary 1629965;1490050286;trinque;didn't yet turn up why 1629966;1490050422;*;trinque bbl 1629967;1490050633;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/buttfunex-diversifying-bespoke-butt-fun-offerings-while-walking-away-from-btc/ << Qntra - Buttfunex Diversifying Bespoke "Butt Fun" Offerings While Walking Away From BTC 1629968;1490050653;BingoBoingo; 'extruded product' << You know, the most consistently high quality American products of the day appear to be made by "Rubbermaid Commercial Products" (not to be confused with Rubbermaid Consumer Products), best trashcans! 1629969;1490050726;BingoBoingo; and possibly BingoBoingo . << Interested in machines, but have not acquired herd of yet 1629970;1490050820;ben_vulpes;shinohai: i saw that and laughed uproariously 1629971;1490050841;ben_vulpes;WHERE ARE THE TRB TOKENS, EH? 1629972;1490050843;ben_vulpes;dipsharts 1629973;1490050849;shinohai;We can trade on forks that don't even exist yet! 1629974;1490050881;ben_vulpes;yeah well everyone is wising up to the fact that bcc/bcu are rotten to the cire 1629975;1490050883;ben_vulpes;core 1629976;1490050885;ben_vulpes;finally 1629977;1490050913;shinohai;Ba dumm tiss ( *rotten to the CORE*) 1629978;1490051859;ben_vulpes;unrelatedly, is there a "nodictionaries" for russian? 1629979;1490052118;ben_vulpes;!!up lulcoinz 1629980;1490052118;deedbot;lulcoinz voiced for 30 minutes. 1629981;1490052135;ben_vulpes;come ye with lultithes or lultidings? 1629982;1490052151;shinohai;In more "We desperately want to be like trilema" news: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/bech32/demo/demo.html 1629983;1490052286;lulcoinz;so do you guys think there will actually be a hard fork anytime soon? 1629984;1490052311;lulcoinz;just praying nothing happens and BU along with segwit die 1629985;1490052344;ben_vulpes;lulcoinz: why pray? 1629986;1490052359;lulcoinz;well not really pray, "hope" would be more accurate 1629987;1490052370;lulcoinz;i'm not the religious type, i'm more agnostic 1629988;1490052371;ben_vulpes;(given how time, statists, and physics work, more phorks are nearly inevitable) 1629989;1490052378;ben_vulpes;same q though, why "hope"? 1629990;1490052383;lulcoinz;if there is a god, I don't think he gives a shit my (or anyone elses) prayers :) 1629991;1490052456;ben_vulpes;no but seriously, why even bother hoping? run a trb node, insulate yourself from the retardation. 1629992;1490052457;lulcoinz;my understanding is this group doesn't really support segwit or BU 1629993;1490052481;lulcoinz;what is a trb node (sorry for my ignorance) 1629994;1490052503;shinohai;lulcoinz: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html 1629995;1490052505;lulcoinz;trb specifically (I know what a btc node is) 1629996;1490052514;ben_vulpes;yeah ~right. segwit, aka "blockchains that don't validate" isn't a thing, and "bitcoin unlimited" wtf is that even 1629997;1490052517;ben_vulpes;trb is "the real bitcoin" 1629998;1490052535;ben_vulpes;the 0.5.3 codebase, dug out of the ground, polished and oiled into ~usability 1629999;1490052732;asciilifeform;lulcoinz: it's the bitcoin you used in 2011. ~21,000 lines, and shrinking. ( and no 'headers-first' pseudo-verification idiocy, no leveldb, no p2sh, no githubism, no dns, no glibc, various other 'noes'. large collection of exquisite noes.) 1630000;1490052764;shinohai;Just bitches and noes. 1630001;1490052806;asciilifeform;no memory leaks, either (there's fragging, and it needs ~4GB to run, but will stay within the 4GB , indefinitely. ) 1630002;1490052807;lulcoinz;sounds good to me 1630003;1490052819;lulcoinz;do you guys have good doc on getting into the wot etc 1630004;1490052822;ben_vulpes;lulcoinz: consider running a fully-validated node 1630005;1490052827;ben_vulpes;fully-validating 1630006;1490052840;ben_vulpes;lulcoinz: http://deedbot.org/help.html 1630007;1490052861;shinohai;See also: http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ 1630008;1490052873;lulcoinz;awesome, thank you 1630009;1490052903;ben_vulpes;ohey trinque i know you're busy but you can link to transactions in mimisbrunnr now: http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/456445#8ce75d1a1e4eaed104a752b92f328bd3d9bb29b66ba7384b0b9dc78319ec01a8 1630010;1490052958;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629978 << wassat 1630011;1490052958;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 23:17 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a "nodictionaries" for russian? 1630012;1490052959;shinohai;neato ben_vulpes 1630013;1490052972;ben_vulpes;shinohai: ty 1630014;1490052984;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: interlinear latin translations 1630015;1490052988;*;shinohai goes to work fiddling with jhvh1 to add this functionality 1630016;1490052989;ben_vulpes;with user-adjustable derp knob 1630017;1490053005;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: y'mean translit ? 1630018;1490053015;asciilifeform;http://translit.net 1630019;1490053021;asciilifeform;^ www-based gizmo 1630020;1490053030;asciilifeform;also midnight commander does it by default 1630021;1490053041;asciilifeform;(if you view orc txt on a box set to ascii) 1630022;1490053054;asciilifeform;and possibly elsewhere 1630023;1490053057;ben_vulpes;whoa, midnight commander does *translation*? 1630024;1490053064;ben_vulpes;i thought that was like a file browser or some such 1630025;1490053065;asciilifeform;transliteration ben_vulpes 1630026;1490053074;ben_vulpes;aaaaa 1630027;1490053074;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it's much moar than 'file browser' 1630028;1490053099;asciilifeform;on most days i spend ~= time in it, as in emacs. 1630029;1490053103;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: no, not 'translit', translate 1630030;1490053116;asciilifeform;( emacs -- and ~unfixably -- has few useful SINGLE-KEY commands ) 1630031;1490053130;ben_vulpes;oh come now, just switch over to evil-mode 1630032;1490053131;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: ah i thought you wanted translit. 1630033;1490053138;ben_vulpes;nono, trans/late/ 1630034;1490053144;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: when i say single-key -- i mean single motherfucking F-key. 1630035;1490053149;asciilifeform;not 2, not 3, not 4. 1630036;1490053150;asciilifeform;1. 1630037;1490053154;ben_vulpes;i kind of don't care how to pronounce the shit, reading far more important to me now 1630038;1490053173;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: google has the only vaguely-usable one afaik. 1630039;1490053174;ben_vulpes;once i have a grasp on sentences, grammar, i can probably get pronounciation with a few hours of teevee 1630040;1490053299;*;shinohai also likes how mc lets you browse contents of tar.gz archives before unpacking .... 1630041;1490053341;asciilifeform;shinohai: knows how to ftp, sftp, diff directories, 1,001 other things, and extensible. 1630042;1490053350;asciilifeform;sorta like 'norton' was in ye olde msdos dayz. 1630043;1490053356;asciilifeform;but for adults. 1630044;1490053371;shinohai;It's far better than Norton commander was imho 1630045;1490053374;asciilifeform;noshit 1630046;1490053414;asciilifeform;extract for me, in ordinary shell, from a .rar inside a .tar.gz inside a .zip, JUST THE files that differ from a subdir inside a .zip in a certain .rar. and copy to a freshly stood up box with NOTHING but bash/sshd on it. 1630047;1490053423;asciilifeform;in midnight that's roughly 8 seconds' work. 1630048;1490053436;asciilifeform;and with 0 page-rufffling, rtfm, googlage. 1630049;1490053456;ben_vulpes;only because you've already read the fucking manual! 1630050;1490053463;asciilifeform;oh and then search for certain hex string in one of selfsame files. 1630051;1490053466;asciilifeform;2 seconds. 1630052;1490053482;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the 'rtfm' consists of reading three or so lines, saying which f-key does which. 1630053;1490053485;ben_vulpes;> .rar inside a .tar.gz inside a .zip 1630054;1490053487;ben_vulpes;no 1630055;1490053491;ben_vulpes;i go yell at whoever sent me that garbage 1630056;1490053506;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: 'who sent the garbage' is, in my case, a malware author. 1630057;1490053508;asciilifeform;go, yell. 1630058;1490053543;ben_vulpes;well if you muck about in the dumps of civilization a rad suit is probably a good idea 1630059;1490053551;asciilifeform;or, alternatively, a 20 y.o. archive from simtel. 1630060;1490053556;asciilifeform;or myself 15 yrs ago. 1630061;1490053558;asciilifeform;or. 1630062;1490053579;asciilifeform;this is just an example, of 1 among 1,001 tools in the toolbox. 1630063;1490053601;asciilifeform;(many of the ones on my box, are custom, sorta like folx are accustomed to doing in emacs) 1630064;1490053653;asciilifeform;anyway it isn't a 'replacement for emacs', and serious emacsists do sometimes spit, 'i can do this from TRAMP' etc. 1630065;1490053673;asciilifeform;good -- for them. 1630066;1490055149;phf;i misspelled something in btcbase search and was surprised when it didn't "search instead for ..." me. 1630067;1490055155;asciilifeform;lul 1630068;1490055696;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo afaik that's a chinese brand. 1630069;1490055903;mircea_popescu;!~later tell framedragger hey log ded ? 1630070;1490055904;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded. 1630071;1490055948;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: his client disconnected earlier 1630072;1490055964;mircea_popescu;ah k 1630073;1490055998;ben_vulpes;there is always http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema 1630074;1490056013;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629992 << actually "segwit" is supported, and fully implemented / working without bugs since what, 2015 ? look up deedbot.org 1630075;1490056013;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 23:27 lulcoinz: my understanding is this group doesn't really support segwit or BU 1630076;1490056016;ben_vulpes;and also phf's actually-useful btcbase 1630077;1490056027;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yeah i have like one per machine over here :D 1630078;1490056045;mircea_popescu;redundancy ftw, it's so luxurious. who the fuck else has shit like this, not even lizard captains. 1630079;1490056184;mircea_popescu;in the same vein : new dork (at least i've not seen him before) with apparent delusions of "management" at place i normally frequent. i tell him to bring me a dozen empanadas para llevar. he... didn't understand, at first, then on second pass told me to go to "the different counter", then got invited to go search for his mother's cunt, which rendered him apoplectic. /me went to other place down the street he also frequents, g 1630080;1490056184;mircea_popescu;ot his empanadas as well as open invite from waitress who's apparently been waiting for moths for the one time mp is not with cunt in tow. 1630081;1490056757;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1630030 << we had a thread where mp's said something like "i don't have rsi because i'm literate". 1630082;1490056757;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 23:38 asciilifeform: ( emacs -- and ~unfixably -- has few useful SINGLE-KEY commands ) 1630083;1490056763;phf;i've been reflecting on the implications of that point with one of the effects that i stopped using emacs (a while ago). 1630084;1490056786;mircea_popescu;o.O 1630085;1490056838;asciilifeform;ooh hey phf retired from massaging bits, or wat 1630086;1490056853;asciilifeform;( re: quit emacs ) 1630087;1490056859;*;mircea_popescu subscribes to this thread, curios how it'll go. 1630088;1490057095;phf;well, i realized that environment micro optimizations are mostly a waste of time, and that something like emacs is one of the worst offenders. 1630089;1490057107;asciilifeform;( unrelatedly, phf , the ivory2 appears to be back on auction ) 1630090;1490057167;asciilifeform;phf: this is not untrue, but i'll be damned if i EVER consider hitting a key 70times in a row, a legitimate part of life, ever. 1630091;1490057182;asciilifeform;( see 'hungry arrow keys' thread etc ) 1630092;1490057210;asciilifeform;and i've no interest in not having SLIME 1630093;1490057234;asciilifeform;and yes emacs is a glue trap. 1630094;1490057286;mircea_popescu;there is this very specific failure mode whereby computerists who for naive reasons decide "they don't play computer games" end up game-ifying their daily life. it is way the fuck better to level up a warlock than to dick around "saving" typing and growing a crop of tomatoes on your balcony. 1630095;1490057300;phf;^ 1630096;1490057326;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the ancients did write 'moderation in all things', neh. 1630097;1490057335;mircea_popescu;they do. 1630098;1490057362;mircea_popescu; but rare indeed is the computerhead who will sit down and compare the time "improvement" takes to implement CORRECTLY, AND MAINTAIN ; vs the time it actually saves. 1630099;1490057363;asciilifeform;fwiw i turn a knob or two in .emacs , every other year or so. 1630100;1490057371;phf;this whole "literate" point is not so much about specific technology, as it is about rebalancing the tree from the root, so to speak, wherein it's sometimes ok to push the key 70 times 1630101;1490057384;asciilifeform;usually when i end up picking up entirely new system ( most recently -- ada ) 1630102;1490057399;mircea_popescu;i know some clits i don't mind pushing 707 times. 1630103;1490057420;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: dunno about yours, on my kbd there is not a clit.. 1630104;1490057441;asciilifeform;repetitive mechanical work -- suxx. 1630105;1490057447;mircea_popescu;come along now an' let's play that strange game where errything's a key! 1630106;1490057468;asciilifeform;'where is the anykey?!!1' 1630107;1490057492;mircea_popescu;i wish someone here made a garage band so i could write lyrics for them. 1630108;1490057493;asciilifeform;'аникей' 1630109;1490057504;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform pity nobody named his daughter that. 1630110;1490057516;mircea_popescu;"i'm annie" "from anna ?" "no, from аникей" 1630111;1490057520;asciilifeform;lol!! 1630112;1490057569;ben_vulpes;this is a subset of the "programmers are bad at cost/benefit evaluation" thread 1630113;1490057585;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: they ~have~ to be 1630114;1490057586;mircea_popescu;more like, "whores are bad at finding non-slippery solutions." 1630115;1490057587;asciilifeform;think. 1630116;1490057592;mircea_popescu;carpenter is likely to make you wooden dam. 1630117;1490057594;ben_vulpes;for example, somehow dropbox let its engineers haul off and do an open-sores python reimplementation 1630118;1490057597;ben_vulpes;which they since abandoned 1630119;1490057610;ben_vulpes;because "go back to your fucking cubicle and file a purchase request for seven more servers" 1630120;1490057634;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes do you know what is the real because there ? 1630121;1490057644;ben_vulpes;no, please to illuminate 1630122;1490057659;mircea_popescu;it all relies on the almighthy IDF. investor dream fuel. dja know what that is ? 1630123;1490057679;mircea_popescu;it's exactly like nightmare fuel in media. a substance that makes people with money and no clue imagine happy thoughts. 1630124;1490057696;mircea_popescu;large companies without a point or purpose adrift in economic anomie essentialy become IDF packagers. 1630125;1490057711;asciilifeform;naggum called it, 1630126;1490057716;asciilifeform;'imponade' 1630127;1490057720;mircea_popescu;and the hope is that who knows, maybe the dorks come back with some idf. in any case, up until they return, the thread can be deemed as idf as-is. 1630128;1490057733;mircea_popescu;"we have engineers doing things|! " "What ?" "we don't actually know." "here's some money then." 1630129;1490057741;ben_vulpes;ick 1630130;1490057745;mircea_popescu;ick but tru. 1630131;1490057761;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform imponade, not bad. 1630132;1490057776;mircea_popescu;like the lemonade of the proverbial lemonade stand that's always used as example in theoretical economics. 1630133;1490057787;ben_vulpes;ick and squick 1630134;1490057790;*;ben_vulpes off 1630135;1490057848;asciilifeform;http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3207123764972938@naggum.net.html 1630136;1490057950;asciilifeform;phf: i'm still curious re with what you replaced emacs. 1630137;1490057966;asciilifeform;really, closing parens and indenting by hand..? 1630138;1490058011;mircea_popescu;You may, and some do, complain that there is no super-compact expression of some particular problems, but what you completely miss is that the _penalty_ for thinking "outside of the box" or outside of the "intended" uses of the language is _also_ absent. 1630139;1490058014;mircea_popescu;excellently put. 1630140;1490058177;mircea_popescu;anyway, the difference between imponade and the idf is that the imponade relies on failure of those imponed upon to evaluate ; whereas the idf relies on the fundamental problem of the cost of evaluation -- sometimes it's huge. 1630141;1490058225;mircea_popescu;ie, it's one thing to tell yokel your apple's a mango, it's another thing to claim your apple cures sun eclypse. 1630142;1490058252;mircea_popescu;in practice though, this theoretical distinction carries little importance. 1630143;1490058290;shinohai;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630102 <<< Amen 1630144;1490058290;a111;Logged on 2017-03-21 00:49 mircea_popescu: i know some clits i don't mind pushing 707 times. 1630145;1490058296;mircea_popescu;(though it's a welcome exercise, in passing, to consider HOW would you rigurously prove an apple doesn't cure sun eclipse.) 1630146;1490058299;asciilifeform;if cost of evaluation were huge because the activity consisted of travel to uncharted asteroids -- that'd be one thing. 1630147;1490058309;mircea_popescu;well it claims to :) 1630148;1490058324;asciilifeform;but it consists of pumping liquishit from one vessel to another. 1630149;1490058327;mircea_popescu;hence all the "uncharted lands" references all the time. 1630150;1490058439;asciilifeform;( the other, obligatory naggum re subj, http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3233532779857997@naggum.net.html , i.e. 'is your work expensive and uncertain because you drill 5km into ocean floor 1630151;1490058447;asciilifeform;. 1630152;1490058449;asciilifeform;? 1630153;1490058456;asciilifeform;.. or because idiot?' 1630154;1490058462;mircea_popescu;the matrices one ? 1630155;1490058462;mircea_popescu;aha. 1630156;1490058477;*;mircea_popescu regrets naggum. 1630157;1490058519;asciilifeform;what means 'regrets x' 1630158;1490058538;mircea_popescu;that i'd rather he had a sane woman to take him to the hospital. 1630159;1490058544;asciilifeform;or does that construct work in ro 1630160;1490058548;asciilifeform;aah ok. 1630161;1490058557;mircea_popescu;i thought it worked in english. 1630162;1490058562;asciilifeform;notafaik 1630163;1490058567;mircea_popescu;hm. 1630164;1490058572;asciilifeform;but i'm not an inglischman 1630165;1490058575;mircea_popescu;well ... it's been in the logs, so it works nao. 1630166;1490058641;mircea_popescu;it doesn't really work in romanian. i mean, a common honorific for the deceased is "regretatul" ie, the regretted. but that's about as far as that goes. 1630167;1490058777;mircea_popescu;i have nfi why regrets - noun wouldn't work in a language where regrets - verb in perfective aspect works out of the box and without glue. in romanian it needs glue to work, and you can say "hey, no glue for noun so you can't do that!" 1630168;1490058916;phf;asciilifeform: with nothing, that's the beauty of it. 1630169;1490058926;asciilifeform;aah so cocaineyacht. 1630170;1490058931;phf;btcbase still runs on slime, but it's a 30 line el file that lives in the repo itself. 1630171;1490058931;asciilifeform;congrats phf 1630172;1490058948;phf;i sometimes load it to do a macro transform on a particularly gnarly file 1630173;1490058958;phf;but otherwise i use whatever. it's sort of like, if you don't have a hammer, you don't go pounding nails when you have nothing btter to do 1630174;1490059004;asciilifeform;harmful habits are not the hammer's fault. 1630175;1490059024;asciilifeform;'i picked nose, but cured now, cut off it and fingers' 1630176;1490059115;asciilifeform;phf: with what didja replace , e.g., 'who-calls' ? with grep ? 1630177;1490059125;asciilifeform;with telepathy? 1630178;1490059207;asciilifeform;enjoying typing out by hand 'least-negative-normalized-single-float' twenty times a day? 1630179;1490059220;phf;who-calls ~what~? ~when~? why am i even asking that question? we're discussing a tool outside of specific problem, which is precisely "harmful habits" manifestation 1630180;1490059273;asciilifeform;phf knows very well what is 'who-calls' 1630181;1490059298;asciilifeform;in fact discussing specific domain here, as example, commonlisp. 1630182;1490059324;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630170 1630183;1490059324;a111;Logged on 2017-03-21 01:15 phf: btcbase still runs on slime, but it's a 30 line el file that lives in the repo itself. 1630184;1490059346;asciilifeform;suppose you write a ~new~ proggy, phf 1630185;1490059360;asciilifeform;or reading old smbx clim crud, etc 1630186;1490059374;asciilifeform;really, wont miss 'who-calls' ? 1630187;1490059491;mircea_popescu;"but the hammer's so nice" "dude we're discussing a tool by itself" "don't you think it's nice ?" 1630188;1490059498;asciilifeform;no. 1630189;1490059545;asciilifeform;'power saws are decadence, hand saw suffices to build anything in existence' 'how much sawing do you , personally, do?' 'stop discussing tool out of context!!1' 1630190;1490059552;mircea_popescu;let's put it this way : if your program is compelx enough you forgot who-calls and it is not actually addressed to a large enough problem space, maybe it's time to review why you're writing it. 1630191;1490059570;mircea_popescu;right back to the whole "but my balcony tomato plantation!11!" 1630192;1490059614;ben_vulpes;hey now, who-calls is extremely-useful for archaeological work 1630193;1490059623;mircea_popescu;yes, i understand that man drowning in complexishit may find various straws to help himself keep breather holes above level for a week longer. 1630194;1490059632;mircea_popescu;still, wouldn'\t it be kinda nice if he sat himself on chair instead of all that ? 1630195;1490059643;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yes, but this means you're doing archeological work. why are you ? 1630196;1490059647;asciilifeform;bulldozer that amplifies my intelligence and makes such thing as, e.g., unravelling trb, possible, is not 'balcony tomato'. 1630197;1490059663;ben_vulpes;blender, $fiatoloa scam, etc? 1630198;1490059665;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't imagine he's proposing you don't use whatever tool you want for whatever job. 1630199;1490059704;mircea_popescu;what he's proposing is that it's a tad ridiculous to keep, like every honest taxpaying, they took our jerbs murican, shiny toolkit in garage, that cost 5k to buy and used a total of 400 watts in its entire life 1630200;1490059708;mircea_popescu;doing a $.45 fix. 1630201;1490059718;phf;i'm not sure where to even start with alf's vitriol, but i've seen this conversations enough to not even try 1630202;1490059735;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i have allergy to 'Simplicity! Is Best! Simple life, Simple toolz!!!' folx, who, on examination, are able to carry along in he delusion strictly because they do ~0 nontrivial work with own hands. 1630203;1490059751;mircea_popescu;mmm. 1630204;1490059764;mircea_popescu;allergy noted in the grand list of allergies. 1630205;1490059775;asciilifeform;( there is nothing wrong with getting successful to cocaineyacht stage of life. but i like whenfolx are ~honest~ about it ) 1630206;1490059794;ben_vulpes;to play priest of heterodoxy for a moment, what is wrong with grep in place of `who-calls`, works for any-lang 1630207;1490059809;asciilifeform;and not pretend that 'rusty spoon is just as good as power saw '. 1630208;1490059809;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes that you gotta remember the corner cases. 1630209;1490059824;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: ooda loop. 1630210;1490059850;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: perhaps it is sin of too-much-emacs, but this is not an interruption to my loop 1630211;1490059862;asciilifeform;moarpowerforyou 1630212;1490059896;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: expand on 'corner cases'? 1630213;1490059901;asciilifeform;for folx who spent entire life shitting into holes in earth -- that is also not unpleasant, and does not lengthen their oodaloop. 1630214;1490059912;phf;ben_vulpes: we're not actually discussing various relative merritts of various who calls, because we don't have any problem in mind. for trb clion's who-calls is above and beyond anything emacs provides, for genera's clim ~genera~ is way better at who calls, etc. 1630215;1490059938;asciilifeform;phf: genera in my mind is 'an emacs' 1630216;1490059941;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform listen, suppose you run your car over a pothole. what do you do now ? 1630217;1490059944;asciilifeform;the adult emacs. 1630218;1490059952;mircea_popescu;because your answer is "nothing", ima say you're at cocaineyacht stage!!11 1630219;1490059960;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: explain 1630220;1490059982;mircea_popescu;well, shouldn't you have a barrel of asphalt in your car, fix the hole ? serious people go about with barrel of asphalt tied to car.\ 1630221;1490059983;asciilifeform;'pothole' means what in mircea_popescu's mind's eye, cubic metre pit ? 1630222;1490059999;mircea_popescu;no, pothole, 15 cm deep. 1630223;1490060032;asciilifeform;if there were one of these per six metres of road, i'd consider a tracked vehicle. 1630224;1490060045;mircea_popescu;could you possibly also consider yopu know, just going to a different town ? 1630225;1490060059;asciilifeform;there isn't a different town. 1630226;1490060073;mircea_popescu;but there is a different vehicle. 1630227;1490060079;asciilifeform;aha. 1630228;1490060085;mircea_popescu;yet there also is the BEST IN CLASS asphalt barrel with car attacher! 1630229;1490060092;mircea_popescu;solutions come in a tree. 1630230;1490060103;mircea_popescu;and you're not married to any particular node. 1630231;1490060117;asciilifeform;i don't, note, take issue with folx who quit programming. i aspire to do it one day, myself. 1630232;1490060128;mircea_popescu;some people (known as you know, road workers) have very strong preferences re the asphalt barrelatron. 1630233;1490060129;mircea_popescu;this is fine. 1630234;1490060135;mircea_popescu;it is also not universally interesting. 1630235;1490060136;asciilifeform;but it is disingenuous to say 'i founda Zen Method of programming' 1630236;1490060145;mircea_popescu;it is also not safe to say "they're the only ones doing roadwork". etc. 1630237;1490060167;asciilifeform;which under the surface, consists of not actually writing nontrivial programs. 1630238;1490060192;phf;i didn't actually quit programming, omg. this is reminiscent of the whisperers thread, where a strawman, once chosen, because the only possible direction of conversation 1630239;1490060203;phf;*becomes 1630240;1490060204;mircea_popescu;he should work for the washpo huh. 1630241;1490060289;asciilifeform;well phf did say 'i replaced $tool-of-trade with Nothing' 1630242;1490060298;asciilifeform;what am i to guess , this means. 1630243;1490060330;mircea_popescu;i dunno. 1630244;1490060341;asciilifeform;'i sold my hammer' 'i suppose you are not a carpenter no moar?' 1630245;1490060342;mircea_popescu;who says you gotta guess somthing ? 1630246;1490060363;mircea_popescu;you can be a carpenter without a hammer. 1630247;1490060426;asciilifeform;could. and so i asked him, because i'd like to see how carpenter goes along without hammer. maybe he found how to convince nails to go into wood by themselves.. 1630248;1490060470;mircea_popescu;or maybe hammers aren't as important as all that. 1630249;1490060494;asciilifeform;well sure, maybe 'carpenter' now means a fella who blows houses from plastic, in one shot. 1630250;1490060504;asciilifeform;how'd i know. hence -- asked. 1630251;1490060536;mircea_popescu;your asking has very little in common with asking and a lot in common with "i'll just make up some random shit within 0.1 s and challenge everyone to prove it wrong" 1630252;1490060540;ben_vulpes;nails are the worst metaphorkical pick. 1630253;1490060553;mircea_popescu;which... well, let's say it generally fails to capture the interest of females, or males older than about 16. 1630254;1490060708;asciilifeform;quite srsly, i'd like to know : phf now uses what? 'ed' ? does he still write programs for money ? in commonlisp? in selfsame 'ed' ? 1630255;1490060719;asciilifeform;i will take off my hat, if it is so. promise. 1630256;1490060783;ben_vulpes;who says phf works in cl? 1630257;1490060792;mircea_popescu;iirc, phf himself. 1630258;1490060797;asciilifeform;iirc. 1630259;1490060804;asciilifeform;i could bewrong. 1630260;1490060807;ben_vulpes;irdifferently. 1630261;1490060825;ben_vulpes;java and postgres sit in my banks. 1630262;1490060831;mircea_popescu;o.O 1630263;1490060831;ben_vulpes;and for these, why emacs? 1630264;1490060846;mircea_popescu;!#s from:phf java 1630265;1490060846;a111;14 results for "from:phf java", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aphf%20java 1630266;1490060857;mircea_popescu;!#s from:phf common lisp 1630267;1490060857;a111;60 results for "from:phf common lisp", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aphf%20common%20lisp 1630268;1490060858;asciilifeform;he did mention a java editor 1630269;1490060871;ben_vulpes;yes, jetbrains 1630270;1490060880;asciilifeform;long ago, asciilifeform did some hard time in a java salt mine, liked editor 'idea' 1630271;1490060881;ben_vulpes;from which the other rec which i took derives, "appcode" 1630272;1490060886;phf;there's no point to answering that question, because it's irrelevant to my original point 1630273;1490060915;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes at no poin he says this, your banks need ecc! 1630274;1490060945;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: perhaps the interstitial spaces carry meaning for me 1630275;1490060945;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: there are several systems for which emacs support is poor/laughable/nonexistent, actually 1630276;1490060963;ben_vulpes;but i leave this thread 1630277;1490060963;phf;but in structural carpentry by the way they don't use nails, drills and screws. (i have experience with that one, and last time i did a build i don't think we even had a hammer) 1630278;1490060965;ben_vulpes;now 1630279;1490060978;mircea_popescu;phf i suspect your ride having been identified as possibly gay, you're now to defend your manhood in ARMED COMBAT! 1630280;1490060991;asciilifeform;lul 1630281;1490061007;mircea_popescu;and yes, everyone but asciilifeform is aware hammer-carpentry is ~windows-computing but anyway. 1630282;1490061013;asciilifeform;the funny/sad bit is that i loathe emacs. 1630283;1490061014;mircea_popescu;"oh, that's what we had at home" "good for you." 1630284;1490061019;asciilifeform;it is a manacle. 1630285;1490061060;mircea_popescu;fucking TERRIBLE idea, "oh, let's shove a hard item through the panes, that'll show 'em!" 1630286;1490061126;asciilifeform;phf: really, no screws? 1630287;1490061128;mircea_popescu;"won't shit get randomly bent and displaced and you only get the residual friction anyway ?" "YEAH!!!" 1630288;1490061142;asciilifeform;how to attach the pieces? ultrasonic weld? 1630289;1490061160;mircea_popescu;screws != nails eh. 1630290;1490061163;phf;asciilifeform: ~screws~ not nails 1630291;1490061193;asciilifeform;ah hmm looks like i misread phf's 'nails, drills, and screws' 1630292;1490061194;phf;and screws are fastened using a drill, not hammer 1630293;1490061215;asciilifeform;i was intrigued, 'no screws! ze phyootoor' 1630294;1490061229;mircea_popescu;no screws ~= structural cuts and glue. 1630295;1490061235;mircea_popescu;all those trapezoid profiles. 1630296;1490061263;phf;you'd think ascii would know that one, traditional ru construction method 1630297;1490061270;asciilifeform;aha 1630298;1490061274;mircea_popescu;traditional everywhere people knew about wood. 1630299;1490061282;mircea_popescu;nails really are the idiot's solution to carpentry. 1630300;1490061284;asciilifeform;or even america 19th c, 'log cabin' 1630301;1490061299;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu this is entirely tru 1630302;1490061300;trinque;phf already answered the IDE question in another thread 1630303;1490061321;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625841 1630304;1490061321;a111;Logged on 2017-03-11 21:36 phf: that's another reason, why i don't for example, "hack my python with vim like a real hacker". give me the filthiest, most feature rich IDE, where i can just push spacebar to get half of my scaffolding, or whatever kids these days 1630305;1490061326;mircea_popescu;ftr also not used in crucifixions. 1630306;1490061332;asciilifeform;i found it trinque 1630307;1490061338;mircea_popescu;for all the "original cross nail" afficionados 1630308;1490061341;trinque;seems pretty reasonable; java vogons are gonna make the "best" vogonator 1630309;1490061373;trinque;I dunno about the commercial lisp IDE situation but wouldn't surprise me if they're pretty ok 1630310;1490061377;asciilifeform;trinque: i still missed 'hungry backspace', zero-mouse mechanics, and not having to use ibm keystrokes . 1630311;1490061403;trinque;might have to do with which end of the pig you find most repellant 1630312;1490061404;asciilifeform;(when i used 'idea', 'mathematica' other very spiffy nonemacsen specialized to tasks ) 1630313;1490061415;asciilifeform;*and other 1630314;1490061430;trinque;I'm over here with emacs as window manager, shit you not. 1630315;1490061439;mircea_popescu;come to think labout it, the extensive keybindings was the part i enjoyed least about derive. 1630316;1490061464;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: hah, so not only asciilifeform hated that ui ! 1630317;1490061467;mircea_popescu;~everyone i knew using it for srs first composed a string for paper. 1630318;1490061488;mircea_popescu;i think i mentioned old dood doing actual mm paper acre sized work at some point. 1630319;1490061501;mircea_popescu;even. 1630320;1490061501;*;trinque caps workflow improvements to a with-coffee endeavor, avoids http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630088 1630321;1490061501;a111;Logged on 2017-03-21 00:44 phf: well, i realized that environment micro optimizations are mostly a waste of time, and that something like emacs is one of the worst offenders. 1630322;1490061511;asciilifeform;( interestingly, the physical, calculatorized pocket derive, had stellar ui, joy to use ) 1630323;1490061522;mircea_popescu;i never had that one i dont think 1630324;1490061539;phf;trinque: i've been there, i used exwm for a couple of months. there's no end to the rabbit hole when it's made out of bits, is my point 1630325;1490061550;trinque;oh sure 1630326;1490061557;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: softwarehouse inc. was bought by ti, who 'calculatorized' it, there's an old thread 1630327;1490061559;trinque;I'm tempted to fiddle with midnight commander after asciilifeform's mention 1630328;1490061565;mircea_popescu;ah ah. myeah. 1630329;1490061572;trinque;midnight commander 1630330;1490061576;trinque;ah shit this isn't google 1630331;1490061587;mircea_popescu;trinque it was part of my survival kit for "gotta use a windows system" 1630332;1490061599;mircea_popescu;fortunately, this hasn't been a thing in a decade by now. 1630333;1490061612;mircea_popescu;totalcommander also good. 1630334;1490061627;asciilifeform;^gui only iirc 1630335;1490061631;mircea_popescu;xtreegold best, but we digress. 1630336;1490061639;mircea_popescu;!#d xtg 1630337;1490061662;mircea_popescu;!#s xtg 1630338;1490061663;a111;2 results for "xtg", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=xtg 1630339;1490061667;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: there were many decent clones of the dos nc : e.g., 'volkov commander' 1630340;1490061669;mircea_popescu;wow unmentioned ? 1630341;1490061677;mircea_popescu;well, let's say it did most of my work back in the day. 1630342;1490061685;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it was described in a trilema 1630343;1490061690;mircea_popescu;ah ah 1630344;1490061772;asciilifeform;and yeah , an nc-like proggy can make life on a shell-less os almost tolerable. but (as i described in earlier thread) that is not the only use. 1630345;1490061779;mircea_popescu;shit was ~windows 3.1, except actually worked, was actually useful and took like 300kb. but otherwise - exactly identical. unsurprisingly, didn't take off. 1630346;1490061804;mircea_popescu;(even had mouse! in like 1990!) 1630347;1490061890;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform dos wasn't altogether shell-less though. about par with ash or w/e they had at the time. 1630348;1490061910;asciilifeform;no grep, no sed -- not shell. 1630349;1490061924;asciilifeform;toy. 1630350;1490061938;mircea_popescu;no pipe, no shell. that much. pretty sure there was an awkatron as a command. 1630351;1490061945;asciilifeform;( and yes, i wrote kilometres of .bat, like everybody else ) 1630352;1490061954;mircea_popescu;but you couldn't really go | which ... yeah. ruins it. 1630353;1490062001;asciilifeform;the humble | is 99% of what unix even has going for it. 1630354;1490062005;mircea_popescu;xtg had built in hex view! and shit. 1630355;1490062009;mircea_popescu;yep. exactly true. 1630356;1490062038;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nc also, hexview 1630357;1490062041;mircea_popescu;they made biosen with asm debuggers built in, back then, too! 1630358;1490062045;asciilifeform;i use mc's -- daily 1630359;1490062060;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: on pc?! 1630360;1490062061;mircea_popescu;i used to use it daily when i used real mode computors for sure. 1630361;1490062067;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha. 286 to boot. 1630362;1490062076;asciilifeform;who made ? 1630363;1490062085;mircea_popescu;i don't recall right off. 1630364;1490062092;mircea_popescu;but my jaw dropped when i was shown the wonder. 1630365;1490062106;*;asciilifeform never had the pleasure of encountering x86 with rom debugger. 1630366;1490062108;phf;i briefly used emacs and clisp in dos. as poor man lisp machine as it gets 1630367;1490062123;*;asciilifeform had 'xlisp' 1630368;1490062134;asciilifeform;it was neato 1630369;1490062206;*;mircea_popescu goes on dig for wtf that was, turns up... pfaster-286 1630370;1490062222;mircea_popescu;dja know this wtf ? advertised in oct 1985 pc mag 1630371;1490062834;mircea_popescu;https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=xsMx9D2s6y0C&lpg=PA43&ots=_kLp1j3SJb&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false < item 1630372;1490063734;*;asciilifeform flips through linked thing, nostalgiates 1630373;1490063758;asciilifeform;pg. 35 also interesting 1630374;1490063797;mircea_popescu;yeah remember when these were actually worth reading ? 1630375;1490063833;asciilifeform;'IBM PC Creator Dies. DALLAS--Philip D. "Don" Estridge, 47, IBM vice president of manufacturing and former head of the Entry Systems Division, which developed the IBM PC, was among the six IBM employees killed in the August 2 Delta Air Lines crash at the Dallas/Fort Worth airport...' 1630376;1490063843;asciilifeform;1985. 1630377;1490063853;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: yeah, as late as mid-90s even. 1630378;1490063871;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1630379;1490063950;phf;ru had computerra, which was quite decent in 98 or so, went downhill after 1630380;1490063968;mircea_popescu;romania had literal samizdat items. 1630381;1490063982;mircea_popescu;maybe a thousand different, most with <12 editions. 1630382;1490063999;mircea_popescu;two thirds on a4 paper. 1630383;1490064062;mircea_popescu;virtually all dot-matrixed 1630384;1490064124;mircea_popescu;basically people'd steal whatever govt office supplies, make a... well i guess a sort of blog, really. 90s. 1630385;1490064173;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is interesting, in the american 'computing' mags of the time, to see the ads, how the pictured people are dressed, even 1630386;1490064178;asciilifeform;quite different planet from today. 1630387;1490064187;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1630388;1490064196;mircea_popescu;it wasn't ok top be black, then 1630389;1490064209;asciilifeform;in other types of leisure reading, 'scientific american' (i recently bought half a century's worth of'em, monster crate) also same types of people 1630390;1490064285;asciilifeform;not only 'not black' but they are dressed like 'stereotypical capitalist devil', sharp suit, tie, sitting in respectable-looking study, or in office with obvious subordinates, etc 1630391;1490064310;mircea_popescu;right. 1630392;1490064313;asciilifeform;they are creatures of the 'vhs america'. 1630393;1490064335;mircea_popescu;the non-inclusive, non-minority friendly us. america. 1630394;1490065050;asciilifeform;p.37: 'Market competitors wasted no time in knocking Microsoft's long awaited Windows environment... ...Microsoft, however, says that the criticisms ranged from unfair to incorrect. Says company spokesperson Marty Taucher "We changed the product significantly so it would support existing applications. Allegations that it does not, as (Quarterdeck president) Therese Myers says, and that you need to 'step aside' to support other progra 1630395;1490065050;asciilifeform;ms, are flat wrong." ' 1630396;1490065055;asciilifeform;lulzy. 1630397;1490065084;mircea_popescu;aha, back when the shitshow could still have been killed. 1630398;1490065114;asciilifeform;aha, if not for... a plane crash here , an idiot there. 1630399;1490065119;mircea_popescu;aha. 1630400;1490065138;mircea_popescu;and a universal if foolish unawareness of the republic. 1630401;1490065160;mircea_popescu;"why should some thigns be destroyed. live and let live!!11" 1630402;1490065163;mircea_popescu;idjits. 1630403;1490065189;asciilifeform;poor savages, thought that only single bodies could get cancers. 1630404;1490065199;mircea_popescu;you know, at the time the samovar wasn't yet a train 1630405;1490065216;mircea_popescu;"oh, big whoop, why oppress the niggers! not like i don't have my nice suit or my sane office" 1630406;1490065222;asciilifeform;funnily enough, it was very much a train, but was still called 'ibm' train. 1630407;1490065236;asciilifeform;( if we're still speaking of microshitization ) 1630408;1490065249;asciilifeform;but -- yes. 1630409;1490065253;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform observe that at the tme phoenix could make... cpu competitor board., 1630410;1490065259;mircea_popescu;and... did. 1630411;1490065422;asciilifeform;p.96 , moar lulz 1630412;1490065457;asciilifeform;'Computer paranoia is inspired by an industry aggressive enough to liken internal competition to war and incompetent enough to ship faulty, dangerous products.' 1630413;1490065761;phf;mode ##lmi +b foo@bar 1630414;1490065764;phf;err 1630415;1490066978;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630068 There's two distinct very different things under the brand. American version's msot notable product is "Brute" trashcan 1630416;1490066978;a111;Logged on 2017-03-21 00:21 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo afaik that's a chinese brand. 1630417;1490067377;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630161 << Have seem before. Mostly from the Aged. 1630418;1490067377;a111;Logged on 2017-03-21 01:09 mircea_popescu: i thought it worked in english. 1630419;1490068564;BingoBoingo;*seen 1630420;1490073097;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/88410164DA70AFE747DB9252B676BA0AD4C8AE449F9042EFF189EDF25E273AD2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1546...2179 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '84.34.190.126 (ssh-rsa key from 84.34.190.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (vps276.zoner-asiakas.fi. FI) 1630421;1490073097;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/88410164DA70AFE747DB9252B676BA0AD4C8AE449F9042EFF189EDF25E273AD2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...0617 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '84.34.190.126 (ssh-rsa key from 84.34.190.126 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (vps276.zoner-asiakas.fi. FI) 1630422;1490095962;Framedragger;test 1630423;1490096017;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: yeah, server went down, and now need to fix stuff. will do 1630424;1490096080;Framedragger;unplanned maintenance of some switch, my ass 1630425;1490096098;Framedragger;but logger should of course be more antifragile(tm) 1630426;1490096106;mircea_popescu;lel 1630427;1490096386;Framedragger;test2 (sorry for teh spam, need to make sure i understand issues) 1630428;1490096415;*;Framedragger will fix the gap, bbl 1630429;1490096695;Framedragger;(this might also a be good kickinass to finally move to db, however, no time till april, so considering quickdirtierfix for now, which is a bit yuck) 1630430;1490097056;mircea_popescu;eh relax. 1630431;1490097121;Framedragger;'scheduling' 1630432;1490098089;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, "where the fuck are you ?" "i'm stuck in traffic on the highway." 1630433;1490098104;mircea_popescu;for the love of utter debasement, WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PURPOSE OF THE HIGHWAY THEN! 1630434;1490098131;mircea_popescu;that's why it's there, to not get stuck in traffic. "oh, i got a scrape and then i put disinfectant on it which infected it". 1630435;1490101246;shinohai;Kinda like indiancandy having a vagina she didn't want to penetrate with anything. 1630436;1490103258;mod6;mornin' 1630437;1490103427;*;shinohai waves to mod6, passes coffee [~]D 1630438;1490103503;mod6;thanks :] 1630439;1490103507;*;mod6 needs it. 1630440;1490103731;shinohai;I found this poor little Dell Inspiron 4150 sitting by a dumpster on my morning walk. Brought it home and the thing actually booted w/Knoppix xD 1630441;1490103950;mod6;ha. 1630442;1490103987;mod6;I hung my new 4'x6' whiteboard next to the battlestation last night. 'tis awesome. 1630443;1490104161;shinohai;Speaking of battlestations, didn't you mention you have a new boxxen in the works? 1630444;1490104416;mod6;well, yeah, i've got a new dedicated box that is trb w/wires and currently syncing from thin air. 1630445;1490104461;mod6;and I ordered a physical box that has the same 2 procs, but has 64gb of ram as opposed to 24gb. just needs few disks. 1630446;1490104474;mod6;then will probably get that setup and colocate it somewhere. 1630447;1490104706;mod6;once fully sync'd they both could be masters ; helping avoid star topology. 1630448;1490104818;mircea_popescu;nice. 1630449;1490105393;shinohai;sweet. 1630450;1490113714;danielpbarron;there is traffic on highways because women think it exists for them to set cruise control in whichever lane they happen to end up, and then play games on their phone until they get to work, which results in long strings of cars going exactly the same speed, which results in congestion when even a single similarly slow car tries to pass the clog. 1630451;1490113754;asciilifeform;where do you drive, danielpbarron ? 1630452;1490113766;danielpbarron;Connecticut shoreline (i95 mostly) 1630453;1490113771;asciilifeform;can't say i've ever seen a jam that looks like 'long strings of cars going exactly the same speed' 1630454;1490113778;asciilifeform;seems almost like the very definition of not-jammed. 1630455;1490113813;danielpbarron;if that speed were the speed i want to go then i guess it wouldn't be a problem. but i drive fast 1630456;1490113833;asciilifeform;that is not, i suspect, what most drivin' folk think of as 'jam' 1630457;1490113845;asciilifeform;over here, a jam is when ~nothing moves at all. 1630458;1490113852;mircea_popescu;same here. 1630459;1490113858;mircea_popescu;taking 95 minutes to cover 15 miles. 1630460;1490113861;asciilifeform;aha. 1630461;1490113874;danielpbarron;but no, what happens is when cars are so close together it is much more likely for a phase change to occur (that is going from a state where it is trivial to change lanes to one where changing lanes is difficult because it's hard to find an opening) 1630462;1490113945;danielpbarron;all it takes then is one idiot to hit the breaks for no reason and all the other cars similarly break, and it ripples backwards causing another phase change into what you call a jam, where changing lanes is impossible. 1630463;1490113978;mircea_popescu;1st world problems. also : 1630464;1490114022;mircea_popescu; http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/RT_beijing_traffic_2_jt_151008_12x5_1600.jpg 1630465;1490114053;*;danielpbarron shudders 1630466;1490114095;asciilifeform;famous photo 1630467;1490114104;asciilifeform;i dun know of 1 toll booth even half of this size, in usa 1630468;1490114105;mircea_popescu;aha. 1630469;1490114160;asciilifeform;also suggests that the chinese fucked up their golden chance to make the auto continue to be worth something as a transport for the reasonably elite, vs 'we ate a mutual spoon of shit for free' 1630470;1490114191;mircea_popescu;i have nfi what they were thinking, "we're going to mass industrialize in 1980 AND BUILD ROADS" 1630471;1490114202;mircea_popescu;bitch, what ? would have been 2x as good and 10x as cheap to build rail. 1630472;1490114224;mircea_popescu;"no but roads are flexible" "so is hunger." 1630473;1490114225;asciilifeform;even motherfucking CANALS would beat american-style jam roads. 1630474;1490114232;mircea_popescu;china is arid. 1630475;1490114234;asciilifeform;barge -- goes faster, than my auto went on most days. 1630476;1490114244;asciilifeform;i thought east (civilized) china, were wet.. 1630477;1490114257;mircea_popescu;notrly. overall, it's like the dustbowl. 1630478;1490114332;asciilifeform;so is hunger << 'a revolutionary must be ready to die three types of death: of hunger; of beatings; and of cold.' (iirc) sun yat sen 1630479;1490114344;mircea_popescu;ha. not bad. 1630480;1490114356;asciilifeform;he imho forgot 4th -- of boredom 1630481;1490114387;mircea_popescu;i don't think he forgot. 1630482;1490114399;mircea_popescu;bored revolutionaries belong with stalin. 1630483;1490114399;asciilifeform;lel 1630484;1490114411;asciilifeform;stalin was still robbin' banks 1630485;1490114416;trinque;half the idiocy is city zoning 1630486;1490114420;mircea_popescu;i mean for him to give them what for. 1630487;1490114425;trinque;lets cram everyone working into the smallest place possible 1630488;1490114425;mircea_popescu;trinque yep 1630489;1490114426;phf;dc traffic is special. ferrying the mass of aparatchiks with their high boredom tolerance through the narrow corridors between the old money property 1630490;1490114440;mircea_popescu;worst fucking idea ever. zoning should be illegal by constitutional ammendment, 1630491;1490114447;mircea_popescu;"no one shall make any covenant as to the use of land." 1630492;1490114461;trinque;no zoning in houston 1630493;1490114472;trinque;so the thing spreads out and grows new "downtown" clusters all the time 1630494;1490114482;trinque;almost like leave life the fuck alone and it works fine 1630495;1490114487;mircea_popescu;always does. 1630496;1490114490;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this'd be a massive dekulakization, more or less 100% of 'class privilege' in usistan is 'no plebes, no traffic, for mile around' 1630497;1490114500;mircea_popescu;pfff. 1630498;1490114507;mircea_popescu;this is like keeping warm by pissing your pants 1630499;1490114516;mircea_popescu;it only works if you're THAT retarded. 1630500;1490114572;asciilifeform;they inherited a perverse, 'josephsmithed', fondness for trappings of 'country estate', from probably the british days 1630501;1490114633;mircea_popescu;look : if my slavegirl wears a red dress and i dun like it, i go "take that thing off". maybe i don't go anything. but i sure as fuck don't go "oh honey, red dresses aren't good." 1630502;1490114647;mircea_popescu;SAME EXACT fucking thing here. if you want your plebs to walk, FUCKING TALK TO THEM. 1630503;1490114655;mircea_popescu;you over there! yes you! you're a pleb! get walking! 1630504;1490114668;mircea_popescu;none of the bs "oh.... there is ... A RULE ... about genera l things" 1630505;1490114679;mircea_popescu;if you're too shy to talk to your plebs just go hang yourself. 1630506;1490114683;mircea_popescu;these bs "solutions" ain't. 1630507;1490114759;mircea_popescu;do the world and yourself a basic fucking courtesy and opress people individually, rather than trying to come up with impersonal bs. 1630508;1490114777;asciilifeform;for whatever reason (could be from plantation days? i have nfi) plebes are not managed like people in usistan, but more like livestock, they build pens, corrals, for them, this was even the subject of a mircea_popescu article ('embroiled in dealings with the stupid poor', or what was it called) 1630509;1490114778;mircea_popescu;it always fucking backfires. 1630510;1490114804;mircea_popescu;yes, well, it's unseemly. by now the big house is a large corral. 1630511;1490114921;asciilifeform;there is a reason why the fence is the 'most stereotypically american' furniture of the landscape. everything, even the most worthless empty lot, ruined cement plinths overgrown with weeds, is fenced in -- and if you don't fence in even own front yard, sheeple will trample it to dirt within weeks 1630512;1490114949;asciilifeform;( but oddly enough, even a very jumpable, strictly ceremonial fence -- keeps'em on the sidewalk. why -- i do not know. ) 1630513;1490114961;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/893C088A48B0003D10B6F6DE055C8855478338E9DA593191F376E97BB1EBD7D7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1354...1257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '64.150.192.42 (ssh-rsa key from 64.150.192.42 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown BS NP) 1630514;1490114961;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/893C088A48B0003D10B6F6DE055C8855478338E9DA593191F376E97BB1EBD7D7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1633...7633 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '64.150.192.42 (ssh-rsa key from 64.150.192.42 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown BS NP) 1630515;1490114967;mircea_popescu;cuz they're mentally dim. 1630516;1490114984;asciilifeform;lol bahamas tld 1630517;1490114988;asciilifeform;1st afaik 1630518;1490115017;asciilifeform;!$ ssh 64.150.192.42 1630519;1490115017;scriba;ssh banner of 64.150.192.42 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8 1630520;1490115088;danielpbarron;how do you oppress someone individually on the highway? run them off the road? 1630521;1490115091;phf;i jumped a fence while drunk in georgetown once, during my college years, was invited for a glass of bourbon and a chat by the owner. "i was a rufian, like you, young boys, once" 1630522;1490115105;mircea_popescu;evidently. 1630523;1490115144;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron pickup truck with mortar and g2g missiles, imo. 1630524;1490115185;trinque;some truck owners around here have those idiot LED light bars 1630525;1490115186;mircea_popescu;let pleb invest in radar lock detection, if he cares. 1630526;1490115192;trinque;I think they qualify if you're close enough behind 1630527;1490115214;trinque;I dunno if this is even a thing elsewhere 1630528;1490115216;asciilifeform;trinque: what's that 1630529;1490115246;asciilifeform;... sorta like the mythical rear horn ? 1630530;1490115249;trinque;https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c6/9a/06/c69a06724ee3cef759fb3efcfa8a7da0.jpg 1630531;1490115257;trinque;blinding 1630532;1490115264;phf;ever since playing Quarantine, i thought that it wouldn't be a bad idea to make highways lawless zones 1630533;1490115269;asciilifeform;^ 1630534;1490115293;asciilifeform;phf: at the very least, the Pedestrian Ram oughta be standard equipment. 1630535;1490115298;mircea_popescu;pfff. 1630536;1490115299;asciilifeform;crossed outside of crosswalk ? splat. 1630537;1490115305;asciilifeform;and 100% within rights. 1630538;1490115307;mircea_popescu;pedestrian is above anyone in a car gtfo. 1630539;1490115336;mircea_popescu;on the contrary : car is permitted on the ground provided it gets in the way of no pedestrians. 1630540;1490115355;mircea_popescu;must obtain certificate from all of them ; renew weekly. 1630541;1490115370;danielpbarron;i oppress them in a non violent way: I pass on the right. I don't let people follow behind me, or to my side. when I pass, I get it over with. and I never try to look at the people in the cars, which i've been told by people who do that it causes them to become apoplectic 1630542;1490115400;mircea_popescu;i guess it'll have to do! 1630543;1490115403;trinque;houston area has loads of toll roads, great filter that keeps you able to get anywhere you want quickly as long as you pay 1630544;1490115415;trinque;I wouldn't mind if the whole thing worked that way 1630545;1490115423;trinque;sanity would dictate the road belongs to someone; pay him 1630546;1490115426;mircea_popescu;trinque buenos aires has cab-only lanes. pretty spiffy idea. 1630547;1490115444;mircea_popescu;sort of carpooling done right / putting office drone where it belongs deal. 1630548;1490115457;trinque;aha, nb idea 1630549;1490115469;asciilifeform;trinque: the one mega-road in md/dc that never, ever jams, and is gloriously empty, you can feel like chinese emperor on his private forbidden city road -- is 200; where you gotta pay ~tenbux end to end 1630550;1490115477;trinque;here they had the "HOV lane" but turned it into a pay lane 1630551;1490115478;mircea_popescu;"oh you can't afford a cab ? lol." and then don't pay the drones enough to afford a cab. 1630552;1490115493;trinque;can speed right down the middle of the highway 1630553;1490115521;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha. splendid idea too. 1630554;1490115536;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: funnily enough, the state managed to lose money EVEN ON IT 1630555;1490115542;asciilifeform;by spending a few $B (yes) to build it. 1630556;1490115544;trinque;!#s trimet 1630557;1490115544;a111;1 result for "trimet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=trimet 1630558;1490115548;mircea_popescu;that state will lose money on gold rain. 1630559;1490115618;danielpbarron;speaking of pedestrian vs car. in this city the orcs spitefully and intentionally obstruct the road as some sort of bizzarro power signalling. Things like waiting until there is a car before crossing the road ; opening driver's side door without even looking, and then taking their time with it, digging around like its their closet and not a public street 1630560;1490115618;asciilifeform;( no toll booths, either, you bought a radio pass thingie ) 1630561;1490115655;asciilifeform;danielpbarron: this type of 'stotting' is ubiquitous here also 1630562;1490115663;mircea_popescu;well hang those then. 1630563;1490115672;danielpbarron;i don't slow down for 'em 1630564;1490115684;asciilifeform;in egregiously-infested places they actually build massive wrought iron fences to keep'em from crossing in random spots and slowing down traffic for miles 1630565;1490115775;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cabs in usistan are peculiarly expensive, i still have nfi why. it's the thing that ultimately spawned crackpot chumpatrons ('uber', 'lyft', etc) 1630566;1490115793;mircea_popescu;why. because the ustards can't do anything right anymore. gotta do it speshul. 1630567;1490115800;asciilifeform;and this is even outside of major cities where 'medallions' etc. 1630568;1490115835;trinque;anyone ever seen "swangin" 1630569;1490115846;trinque;orciest of orc road behaviors 1630570;1490115872;asciilifeform;wassat 1630571;1490115876;trinque;you swerve across all lanes back and forth 1630572;1490115887;trinque;while being unwhite, ofc 1630573;1490115899;asciilifeform;sounds like policeman's dream 1630574;1490115917;trinque;in fact I saw one of these get pulled over immediately after. was pretty great 1630575;1490115930;mircea_popescu;im sure the fine went on a credit card. 1630576;1490118235;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FAF7459675FE8CC257A8C935A57D5AF1C7874975FCEBB570ABCF953B6988FF41 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1614...2257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.244.4.2 (ssh-rsa key from 87.244.4.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown RU TUL) 1630577;1490118235;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FAF7459675FE8CC257A8C935A57D5AF1C7874975FCEBB570ABCF953B6988FF41 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1791...8859 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.244.4.2 (ssh-rsa key from 87.244.4.2 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown RU TUL) 1630578;1490119371;phf;https://www.techpowerup.com/231536/amd-ryzen-machine-crashes-to-a-sequence-of-fma3-instructions 1630579;1490119435;*;asciilifeform pictures intel mole getting 'order of wintel red star' pinned on his uniform 1630580;1490119580;mircea_popescu;lol 1630581;1490119585;shinohai;xD 1630582;1490119651;mircea_popescu;how come there's always gotta be a retard doing the join part bs. 1630583;1490119687;shinohai;Too busy being Sancho with someone's wife to set up a znc 1630584;1490119736;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it'd be entertaining if one is ever caught and wired to the mains -- to learn wtf he thought he was doing here. 1630585;1490119768;shinohai;W...W...Where am I ? 1630586;1490119783;mircea_popescu;incidentally, re the above http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630555 : the us "trillion dollar gdp" suddenly looks a lot less impressive once one figures out a road costs something like a quarter billion a track mile. dude what, so you built 50k miles of road in 2015 ? 1630587;1490119783;a111;Logged on 2017-03-21 16:59 asciilifeform: by spending a few $B (yes) to build it. 1630588;1490119788;mircea_popescu;china built 100k in q1 1630589;1490119821;trinque;asciilifeform: they're just. 1630590;1490119829;trinque;justing like a dude. 1630591;1490119837;*;asciilifeform dereferences null ptr, barfs 1630592;1490119986;ben_vulpes;in re mains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhMkvl9u87M 1630593;1490120016;phf;villagers, they simply don't know what's a hygiene 1630594;1490120023;trinque;ahahahah 1630595;1490120060;asciilifeform;what a waste of good rubber, copper. 1630596;1490120252;trinque;no there has to be a monthly allocation of both for exactly that. 1630597;1490120257;trinque;make a show of it 1630598;1490120348;asciilifeform;trinque: i am rather fond of the thing they had in ye olde american south, 1950s, portable electric chair truck ( most towns were, apparently, too poor to afford their own permanent one ) 1630599;1490120351;asciilifeform;'yellow mama' 1630600;1490120369;asciilifeform;it went 'round, 'round. 1630601;1490120371;asciilifeform;doing its thing. 1630602;1490120399;asciilifeform;self-contained -- generator and all (not everyone had sufficiently juicy mains? nfi) 1630603;1490120490;ben_vulpes;what's wrong with hangings again? 1630604;1490120500;asciilifeform;nuffin 1630605;1490120505;trinque;well no dancing for one 1630606;1490120522;asciilifeform;iirc hangings were declared (i shit thee not) 'too sexy' 1630607;1490120536;asciilifeform;chix went wild as they watched the hempen jig danced, the jizz fall 1630608;1490120576;phf;one of recurring themes in burroughs 1630609;1490120705;*;danielpbarron is a fan of stoning 1630610;1490120816;trinque;no way; far too empowering of common idiots 1630611;1490120826;trinque;as though the thing somehow comes from them 1630612;1490120957;ben_vulpes;b-but mob justice, trinque 1630613;1490120985;shinohai;danielpbarron: Why aren't women allowed at stonin's ? 1630614;1490121002;phf;trinque: panem et circenses 1630615;1490121125;danielpbarron;shinohai, is this the set up to a joke? I don't know that there is a gender restriction imposed in the Bible 1630616;1490121166;danielpbarron;trinque, that's the point. if someone deserves to die, everyone should be on board with doing the deed. 1630617;1490121228;shinohai;danielpbarron: https://youtu.be/ffwFXGPRDu4?t=12 1630618;1490121232;ben_vulpes;rather hard to unwind a murderously-intent mob. 1630619;1490121296;ben_vulpes;on one hand, i suppose the peasants may do whatever to each other. on the other, how dare you rob me of still-productive flesh? 1630620;1490121308;danielpbarron;if your community turns to mob mentality so easily then you have bigger problems. 1630621;1490121352;trinque;community isn't a thing 1630622;1490121399;trinque;what this does is empowers every slackjaw peasant to use "we'll go apeshit" as leverage 1630623;1490121406;danielpbarron;republic, society, whatever you want to call it 1630624;1490121699;trinque;didn't the mob condemn your guy? 1630625;1490121717;danielpbarron;yep 1630626;1490122221;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the chinese have those trcuks now. 1630627;1490122227;mircea_popescu;apparently... the civ tree WILL be walked. 1630628;1490122254;asciilifeform;eh iirc the chinese have moar practical -- organ harvest bus 1630629;1490122258;asciilifeform;0 spectacle. 1630630;1490122269;mircea_popescu;hey, that's just as much a harvest. 1630631;1490122276;mircea_popescu;whether you take the steak or the sizzle. 1630632;1490122282;asciilifeform;( they still have spectacle, the shooting field, but exists somehow in parallel with the bus. ) 1630633;1490123586;mircea_popescu;!~ticker --market all 1630634;1490123592;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1107.99, vol: 10588.08120418 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1129.0, vol: 9120.61842 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1108.3, vol: 31279.51403033 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1069.81182, vol: 4669.78470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1100.001, vol: 4082.49310025 | Volume-weighted last average: 1107.82967196 1630635;1490133101;Framedragger;> download datasets from commoncrawl.org for $work 1630636;1490133101;Framedragger;> content of relevant site full of unrelated html body / russian sites / wtf 1630637;1490133107;Framedragger;> Server: cloudflare-nginx 1630638;1490133107;Framedragger;> ahh 1630639;1490133128;Framedragger;(that said, could be some other reason. but lulzy) 1630640;1490133369;trinque;bits or gtfo 1630641;1490133372;trinque;:D 1630642;1490133437;Framedragger;69M of text, hmm 1630643;1490133450;ben_vulpes;yeah Framedragger where the keys at 1630644;1490133474;Framedragger;maybe there are some good keywords to search for sensitive material 1630645;1490133517;Framedragger;anyway sample file's here https://commoncrawl.s3.amazonaws.com/crawl-data/CC-MAIN-2017-09/segments/1487501171232.43/crawldiagnostics/CC-MAIN-20170219104611-00529-ip-10-171-10-108.ec2.internal.warc.gz but in fact i may just be mistaken with regards to how commoncrawl works. maybe i'm supposed to be seeing random junk for a particular requested site 1630646;1490133520;Framedragger;it's just how it works 1630647;1490133524;Framedragger;in which case, sorry to disappoint 1630648;1490133609;Framedragger;nah i think it's innocent, it's just full of junk, e.g. http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ACKJH/?raw=true 1630649;1490133675;Framedragger;would make sense to download more archives from commoncrawl from before january or wherever and to then grep for sensitive keywords but can't be bothered right now. sorry for teh hype 1630650;1490133707;Framedragger;whenever* 1630651;1490133810;Framedragger;so...much...junk 1630652;1490133833;Framedragger;doppler: there's your project right there :D ^ 1630653;1490138100;mircea_popescu;lel 1630654;1490140445;shinohai;lol Preeeeeeeeet to join NYU School of law 1630655;1490140482;asciilifeform;not quite what mircea_popescu predicted.. 1630656;1490140651;mircea_popescu;twist : nyu schoo of law to be defunded this autumn. 1630657;1490140663;asciilifeform;that would be hilarious 1630658;1490140673;mircea_popescu;(but no, if you imagine teaching position is good in context, you're nuts.) 1630659;1490140691;mircea_popescu;~same as $random-athlete to move on to sportscaster position. 1630660;1490140702;asciilifeform;iirc it's where obummer came from and now went back into. 1630661;1490140753;mircea_popescu;obummer came from random-activist's livingroom, went to where ex-presidents go. 1630662;1490140782;asciilifeform;'teaching' sinecure, in both cases 1630663;1490140792;asciilifeform;it's where they put'em. 1630664;1490140823;mircea_popescu;kinda not so many options ; not like anyone'd pay to see 'em strip or anything. 1630665;1490140906;asciilifeform;starvation would be a decent option. 1630666;1490140923;mircea_popescu;sadly us opted out of starvation. 1630667;1490140927;shinohai;Further lulz develop in the BU camp as nodes are crashing yet again: https://github.com/BitcoinUnlimited/BitcoinUnlimited/issues/386 1630668;1490140928;asciilifeform;if dr.mengele were an american, he would probably have ended up... teaching medicine 1630669;1490140931;mircea_popescu;not even street urchins starve these days. 1630670;1490140936;asciilifeform;(if preet can teach law..!) 1630671;1490140951;mircea_popescu;shinohai i'm sure they'll "professionally" "handle" etc. 1630672;1490140975;asciilifeform;lol 'pruning or full?' 1630673;1490140984;asciilifeform;'No idea if I'm right but it looks like that just attacks pruned nodes.' 1630674;1490140990;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yep, i expect that's exactly correct. 1630675;1490141188;shinohai;"If you upgrade to trb, this has been fixed for ages" <<< /me wants to comment 1630676;1490141197;mircea_popescu;lol. 1630677;1490141207;mircea_popescu;so go right ahead. 1630678;1490141558;ben_vulpes;http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-teen-girl-missing-from-lawndale-20170321-story.html 1630679;1490141583;shinohai;I'm blocked from commenting on Bitcoin Unlimited code :/ 1630680;1490141608;mircea_popescu;must be you weren't professional enough. 1630681;1490141611;mircea_popescu;our democracy!1 1630682;1490141649;ben_vulpes;i must be a bad person to even be thinking about the ethnicities involved 1630683;1490141676;ben_vulpes;"The teen has disappeared once before but her mother says she was found later that day in a neighborhood park." heh 1630684;1490141691;mircea_popescu;"with cum on her upper lip and 120 in loose bills." 1630685;1490141737;mircea_popescu;i suppose i needn't point out the correct verbal tense'd have been "the teen HAD disappeared". no tense left behind! 1630686;1490141760;ben_vulpes;life is complicated. 1630687;1490141773;mircea_popescu;plus it keeps disappearing only to be found in a neighbourhood park. 1630688;1490141802;shinohai;I suppose BU feels that tmsr members must secretly support the blockstream agenda as well. 1630689;1490141821;asciilifeform;shinohai: fill me in re 'the blockstream agenda' 1630690;1490141827;ben_vulpes;yeah what dat 1630691;1490141828;asciilifeform;wtf is a blockstream 1630692;1490141848;mircea_popescu;random usg "company" that's supposed to matter in the sense that idiots will pretend so. 1630693;1490141858;shinohai;Blockstream is the company developing the "Lightning Network" 1630694;1490141874;asciilifeform;this year's mtgox ? 1630695;1490141884;mircea_popescu;typical campbell soup can strategy. "please agree usg matters through the avenue of agreeing it's either usg.corp1 or else usg.corp2 ! engage the controversy!" 1630696;1490141886;ben_vulpes;is this another iceberg of dumb to ignore? 1630697;1490141890;mircea_popescu;nah, not even. 1630698;1490141899;ben_vulpes;icecube? 1630699;1490141907;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes entirely. at least back in the day they were coming up with "coinbase" they put some effort into it. 1630700;1490141916;shinohai;https://blockstream.com/ <<< Leading developers of "Blokechain technologeeeees" 1630701;1490141922;mircea_popescu;by now, entirely abstract paper tank divisions. 1630702;1490141927;mircea_popescu;i suppose i should say derisions. 1630703;1490141972;mircea_popescu;to quote phf, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629431 1630704;1490141972;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 15:46 phf: jeez, i like how they are not even trying. a bootstrap template one pager and a link to "bitcointalk thread" 1630705;1490142060;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, remember the time when the fake "bitcoin foundation" was a thing ? noticed how it... sorta got dropped ? and nobody felt any strong compulsion to explain or inquire as to... why the fuck ? nor did this lack of intererst seemingly inform any self-examination along the lines of "if this thing could be dropped so easily, what consistency did it really have ???" 1630706;1490142099;shinohai;Bruce Fenton still believes he can bring it back. 1630707;1490142108;mircea_popescu;but whatever, next year it'll be tru.th or whatever $name-looking-for-something-to-be-the-name-of. 1630708;1490142115;asciilifeform;https://bitcoinfoundation.org << their www still loads 1630709;1490142119;mircea_popescu;shinohai yeah that's the lulziest part of these. 1630710;1490142127;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so does sex.com 1630711;1490142165;asciilifeform;'Board members include Brock Pierce, of Blockchain Capital (Board Chair), Bobby Lee, of BTCC (Board Vice Chair), Elizabeth McCauley of Coinsecure, Vinny Lingham of Civic, Michael Perklin of C4 and Francis Pouliot of Satoshi Portal.' 1630712;1490142172;ben_vulpes;BROOOOOOCK 1630713;1490142174;asciilifeform;lel, mr.pedo is still there 1630714;1490142179;mircea_popescu;you're looking at a ~2015 item. 1630715;1490142199;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: from 'Bitcoin Foundation Appoints Llew Claasen as Executive Director Monday, June 20, 2016' 1630716;1490142205;shinohai;I got into a 2-3 page lulzfest with Fenton abt Brock being a pedo, he defended him to the end 1630717;1490142207;mircea_popescu;lel 1630718;1490142219;shinohai;(on bitcointalk) 1630719;1490142230;ben_vulpes;"fenton"? 1630720;1490142243;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes wanna-be lawyer dork. 1630721;1490142256;ben_vulpes;not even actually a lawyer? 1630722;1490142264;asciilifeform;'BlockOn Conference 2017 will feature 2 days of inspiring talks, new demos and interactive networking to more than 300 attendees from the Blockchain community.' << for a dead horse, it neighs pretty well 1630723;1490142267;mircea_popescu;eh. half of argentina's a lawyer. 1630724;1490142288;ben_vulpes;uno minimo respeto por los abogados or how did it go 1630725;1490142295;mircea_popescu;over icecream i read in some fashion mag about this female imbecile that "closed a chapter in her life bla bla" and dedicated herself full time to her... interior decoration blog. 1630726;1490142296;mircea_popescu;lawyer. 1630727;1490142317;ben_vulpes;the place is like 2 decades behind even the states 1630728;1490142321;ben_vulpes;eyeballs probably still pay! 1630729;1490142325;mircea_popescu;eh get out. 1630730;1490142343;mircea_popescu;if i went out with a wrench and threatened people to break their head unless they pay me 100 pesos i'd break all the heads 1630731;1490142349;mircea_popescu;because nobody has a six dollar bill on them. 1630732;1490142372;ben_vulpes;place is still lousy with advertising 1630733;1490142411;mircea_popescu;they buy socks on layaway, you understand me ? 50yo dorks trying to look like uni professors, 500 colones worth of merchandise. 1630734;1490142469;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: americans also buy socks on layaway, it is simply structured differently. 1630735;1490142497;mircea_popescu;you can't live off your "interior decoration blog" in the states. 1630736;1490142513;mircea_popescu;and certainly all the "lawyers" that tried made a fine example of themselves. 1630737;1490142516;asciilifeform;but in orcistan -- can?! 1630738;1490142518;asciilifeform;how? 1630739;1490142525;mircea_popescu;tucker max comes to mind, and there was the recent copycat we discussed. 1630740;1490142545;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform no, that's my point, OUT OF THE FUYCKING QUESTION she can, or that any one who was actually a lawyer would even consider trying. 1630741;1490142584;mircea_popescu;the fact she says this proves she never was a lawyer, never could have been a lawyer. 1630742;1490143096;mod6;I'll tell ya, I've never had much prior experience but... the american health care "system" is about as useless as rubber lips on a woodpecker. 1630743;1490143125;mod6;Someday, I'll probably elaborate more. But wow, what a failure. 1630744;1490143125;mircea_popescu;mod6 take a hint, go to mexico and pay cash. 1630745;1490143143;mircea_popescu;or w/e, romania. 1630746;1490143149;mod6;For sure. Anywhere has to be better than this hell hole. 1630747;1490143182;mircea_popescu;by now the capital goods advantage isn't that marked for the us, and the injuns make barely ok doctors. you're better off with "3rd world". 1630748;1490143210;mircea_popescu;i paid cash for, eg, computed tomography here. "immense sum" aka $450. 1630749;1490143219;mircea_popescu;same day in the sense of, within an hour of walking in. 1630750;1490143238;shinohai;Here, that'd be more to the tune of $45`000 1630751;1490143245;mod6;shit, just about anything serious here will bankrupt the aveage johnny mcfucksticks. 1630752;1490143246;mircea_popescu;irk ? and next day if you';re lucky. 1630753;1490143254;shinohai;Plus extra for the specialist to interpret 1630754;1490143261;mod6;ya 1630755;1490143266;mircea_popescu;mod6 and they got a printout so fucking crisp and clear ~i~ could read it 1630756;1490143267;mircea_popescu;and weep. 1630757;1490145076;mod6;Ladies and Gentlemen of The Most Serene Republic: I have published a new version of V (99994 K), submitted here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-March/000260.html 1630758;1490145120;mod6;You will find that The Bitcoin Foundation website has duly been updated as well as the TRB How-To Steps (nothing more has changed than the version number of the tarball to grab for V). 1630759;1490145131;mircea_popescu;nice. 1630760;1490145134;asciilifeform;neato mod6 1630761;1490145159;mod6;Thanks. :] 1630762;1490145383;asciilifeform;holy mother of fuck, asciilifeform sweated for 2 wks over nothing, turned out it was a bug in... gnat 1630763;1490145397;asciilifeform;in gnatelim, of all things. 1630764;1490145406;mircea_popescu;what was ? 1630765;1490145456;asciilifeform;entirely inexplicable failure of any stream subclass whatsoever, from any example code whatsoever, to work. 1630766;1490145601;asciilifeform;i can already picture naggum, might have said, 'hey whatsthematter gnatelim is not part of ada standard, nobody promised you that it'll work and not cut out beating heart from an in-use package' 1630767;1490146619;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CE72A8A92BAD54483D369030249CB608FDE6742BFFE5683D09385073F04B97DD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1578...9597 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.62.176.35 (ssh-rsa key from 200.62.176.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown PE LMA) 1630768;1490146619;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CE72A8A92BAD54483D369030249CB608FDE6742BFFE5683D09385073F04B97DD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1424...5529 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.62.176.35 (ssh-rsa key from 200.62.176.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown PE LMA) 1630769;1490147465;shinohai;ty mod6 o7 1630770;1490148677;mod6;thanks for all your hardwork shinohai! 1630771;1490149104;shinohai;np mod6 .... I see you got to the release before I got to msg you and let ya know the other tests went fine, but I didn't expect hiccups after this morning's first. 1630772;1490149127;mod6;Werd. :] 1630773;1490149131;mod6;Thanks for the update. 1630774;1490149164;mod6;Thanks for following through on the remainders. 1630775;1490149216;mircea_popescu;"hello ? we have kidnapped your daughter!" "o yeah ? what are your demands ?" "no demands. we just like kidnapping daughters." 1630776;1490149375;mod6;heheh 1630777;1490149445;mircea_popescu;:D 1630778;1490152628;BingoBoingo; if i went out with a wrench and threatened people to break their head unless they pay me 100 pesos i'd break all the heads << That's so primitive. Gotta break out the Chain Tongs like a pro! 1630779;1490155715;asciilifeform;in other veryolds, 'you'll feel no dismay, watching your house burn, after you get to see how the bedbug dies!' (korean proverb) 1630780;1490156225;trinque;http://www.outsports.com/2017/3/20/14983388/transgender-weightlifting-laurel-hubbard-wins << In doing so she set new national records “in the snatch and clean and jerk,” according to 1 News Now. 1630781;1490156763;shinohai;-https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7ZnZ2SUwAARAeH.jpg ^________________^ 1630782;1490156809;shinohai;"A peer to peer electronic bug crash system" 1630783;1490187169;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-hustler/ << Trilema - The Hustler 1630784;1490188118;mircea_popescu;shinohai progress! revolutionary new economy! 1630785;1490188135;mircea_popescu;an' trinque's thing's just too adorbs. clean snatch jerk eh. 1630786;1490195358;BingoBoingo;OMG London Terrorism! 1630787;1490195742;shinohai;Secretary of State Rex Tillerson: " I didn't want this job .... but mah wife has me pussywhipped so I did it." 1630788;1490197230;shinohai;Now that mircea_popescu pointed out fangs in "The anti-woman" I see them everywhere http://archive.is/3Hujw 1630789;1490198140;mircea_popescu;shinohai lol. 1630790;1490198192;mircea_popescu;idiots. 1630791;1490198200;mircea_popescu;“Seventeen years old is obviously older, but at the same time it doesn’t make anything right,” 1630792;1490198204;mircea_popescu;what the fuck is wrong with these people ? 1630793;1490198212;shinohai;To be fair, all her teeth are relatively straight, so a bit or two would be most welcome in certain circumstances. 1630794;1490198317;shinohai;The creme de la creme though is ..... "Fowlkes taught anatomy, physiology ...." 1630795;1490198327;shinohai;Anatomy indeed! 1630796;1490198368;mircea_popescu;the notion that she's in a position of power over some male student is perhaps the lulziest bit in there. 1630797;1490198374;mircea_popescu;wtf is she going to do, gossip ? 1630798;1490198472;diana_coman;eh, give him a bad grade, "dent his self-esteem", "ruin his future" etc 1630799;1490198482;mircea_popescu;yeah right. she can't do that. 1630800;1490198515;diana_coman;yes, but at the same time she "can" 1630801;1490198526;mircea_popescu;sounds like a bum deal to me. 1630802;1490198529;shinohai;On paper anyway 1630803;1490198566;diana_coman;tbh I have no idea why/how would someone go into teaching at this moment; my only hypothesis is that really, really, they have NO other option at all 1630804;1490198567;mircea_popescu;"we pretend young women going out with young men is a big deal in order to thereby prop the nonsensical fiction that taking the absolute worst job there is somehow gives bordeline sleeves "power"." 1630805;1490198570;diana_coman;but like at all 1630806;1490198611;shinohai;Worked for Preeet eh 1630807;1490198613;mircea_popescu;this prosecution is expected to produce a further 3k shoulda-been-a-stripper enrollments into teaching countrywide, and at least 50k more useless undergrads signing up for overpriced college tuition. 1630808;1490198641;mircea_popescu;diana_coman no see, she wants to have power. because she doesn't. and if you go into teaching you have power, because that's why they keep prosecuting them. 1630809;1490198669;mircea_popescu;it's ~same reason dumb pubescent girls went into "witching". siunce people burn witches, it's clearly JUST the thing for a lowly wench with no resources. 1630810;1490198697;mircea_popescu;why do 30yos go around on the software adequate for the needs of a 14yo in 1817 is anyone's guess, but i suppose its proper name is progress. 1630811;1490198733;diana_coman;ugh, I thought it was already more than obvious that no power at all,what with all the assorted "rights" and "child protection" and what nots 1630812;1490198736;mircea_popescu;as always, the empire is consistent, in its batshit insane sort of logic. 1630813;1490198751;mircea_popescu;diana_coman nothing's obvious to the powerless. this is a pleonasm. 1630814;1490198764;diana_coman;that's precisely my point: I get it that some 20 years ago they went into teaching for this reason; meanwhile it's so constricted and day by day more so that ... 1630815;1490198767;diana_coman;I guess so 1630816;1490198801;mircea_popescu;obvious is ice to power's water. 1630817;1490198935;diana_coman;makes sense, that 1630818;1490199994;ben_vulpes;!!up aseriousgogetta are you going to keep joining and parting all morning? 1630819;1490199994;deedbot;aseriousgogetta voiced for 30 minutes. 1630820;1490200012;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: tard's been doing it for weeks 1630821;1490200042;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: oh i know 1630822;1490200066;ben_vulpes;seriously, go and get her 1630823;1490200217;asciilifeform;* crackerJack (~infopirat@rrcs-50-84-154-226.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #trilema << oh hey, because apparently we need TWO ninjashotguns from same pigsty 1630824;1490200275;phf;we're moving on up, but still no confiscated electronics on the border 1630825;1490200279;*;phf is mildly disappointed 1630826;1490200360;mircea_popescu;that'd be like the 1983 soviets confiscating communist international propaganda material 1630827;1490200380;mircea_popescu;wtf do they want with anyone's ipad. 1630828;1490200405;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the proverbial 'six words from the pen of the honest man', presumably. 1630829;1490200434;asciilifeform;gunpowderplot.txt 1630830;1490200441;mircea_popescu;on the ipad ? typed one letter at a time ? 1630831;1490200452;mircea_popescu;does it even HAVE a vi or anything ? 1630832;1490200485;phf;perversely is probably does 1630833;1490200518;asciilifeform;or sitting in mail etc 1630834;1490200524;phf;https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/vim/id492668168?mt=8 1630835;1490200528;asciilifeform;or in fauxpgp 1630836;1490200529;mircea_popescu;that'd be fine employment for what's his name wanna-be da indian. fill tax returns on ipad kbd for the rest of his days. 1630837;1490200556;asciilifeform;( speaking of which, https://archive.is/p1EJN >> Run Moar Keybase ) 1630838;1490200575;mircea_popescu;lel 1630839;1490200611;*;shinohai is a little sad to see vim as an app 1630840;1490200661;mircea_popescu;"As reported by Motherboard, a September 2016 filing by a Canadian court revealed that the Dutch police were able to decrypt the PGP-encrypted messages because the Dutch investigators may have found the decryption keys on the seized server itself." 1630841;1490200663;mircea_popescu;imbeciles./ 1630842;1490200683;mircea_popescu;wtf is "end to end encryption" in the opinion of that journalist ? 1630843;1490200788;asciilifeform;i still wonder, the lurk remoras, they have no www browser on their box ? 1630844;1490200799;asciilifeform;reading logs goes against their religion. or wat. 1630845;1490200806;mircea_popescu;you care too much. 1630846;1490200840;asciilifeform;strictly entomological interest. 1630847;1490200860;mircea_popescu;yeah but it's a little like wondering why the pollen suspended in water took a left. 1630848;1490200868;mircea_popescu;brownian motion's a thing. there's no why. 1630849;1490200883;mircea_popescu;they're subhuman for a reason, and the reason they're subhuman is exactly this : BRAINDAMAGE. 1630850;1490200904;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyMSc97UksM 1630851;1490200925;asciilifeform;tru. 1630852;1490201320;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1630768 << lol: peru 1630853;1490201320;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 01:36 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CE72A8A92BAD54483D369030249CB608FDE6742BFFE5683D09385073F04B97DD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1424...5529 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '200.62.176.35 (ssh-rsa key from 200.62.176.35 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown PE LMA) 1630854;1490201332;asciilifeform;and here i was, wondered if they even had the net there. 1630855;1490201354;asciilifeform;!$ ssh 200.62.176.35 1630856;1490201354;scriba;ssh banner of 200.62.176.35 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 1630857;1490201364;asciilifeform;and not only the net, but they have magic-debian. 1630858;1490201475;mircea_popescu;why would the orcs have anything else. 1630859;1490201559;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: from not updating since '06, say. 1630860;1490201570;mircea_popescu;lol. 1630861;1490201582;mircea_popescu;next they';re going to have internet in 1994 and the ps2 in 1995. 1630862;1490201633;mircea_popescu;heck, the whole africa used phone market isn't there because THESE FUCKS EAT THE LEFTOVERS AS A DEFINITIONAL CHARACTERISTIC. but purely as a matter of choice. 1630863;1490201658;asciilifeform;choice? 1630864;1490201685;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform recall the lulz about the expired windows on argentina's patriotic pride big screen next to the "national theatre" ? 1630865;1490201693;asciilifeform;we have these here 1630866;1490201700;asciilifeform;on ATMs, even 1630867;1490201701;mircea_popescu;i'm sure. 1630868;1490201716;asciilifeform;winblowz xp bsod on atm, does not even surprise anyone, any moar, afaik. 1630869;1490201724;mircea_popescu;point being, by the time argentina heard of computers in 2010, windows 95 was just coming out. 1630870;1490201745;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform wasn't bsod. was "this windows is anciend please sir." 1630871;1490201774;asciilifeform;i did find myself wondering, what exactly microshit did to make sure that it in fact ended up happening in 'we heard of computer in 2010' planet. 1630872;1490201787;asciilifeform;the argentines et al had a golden chance to not-have-microshit 1630873;1490201790;asciilifeform;and fucked it. 1630874;1490201793;mircea_popescu;there;s a reason rms spent his days shuttling from brazil to liberia or wherever the fuck "open source" was "really taking off" once open source was well and truly dead. 1630875;1490202030;mircea_popescu;why did they think it's cool a half year after it was no longer worth the mention ? 1630876;1490202056;mircea_popescu;why the fuck do they think dollars are an investment in 1995 ? it was a fucking investment in 1913, but back THEN they were buying austro-hungarian paper. 1630877;1490202243;asciilifeform;it is entirely possible to be 'behind the times' in a non-retarded way, e.g. 'what ipad, i still have a working pdp11' 1630878;1490202252;mircea_popescu;ipad is not the times. 1630879;1490202254;asciilifeform;why they instead have win2k -- i cannot say 1630880;1490202293;mircea_popescu;this is exactly the point, and i suspect the definitional characteristic of orcdom : the inability to distinguish science mag from cosmo. the failure to comprehend ipad is not nor can not be, no matter what happens, the times. 1630881;1490202330;mircea_popescu;"but everyone uses it!" dun matter "but it's really cool!" dun matter "but i really like it!" you're an orc, do the opposite of your natural impulse because your natural impulse is made of shit. etc etc. 1630882;1490202337;asciilifeform;it isn't clear to me that americans, in the general case, can distinguish cosmo from whatever. 1630883;1490202347;mircea_popescu;and they're orcs these days. 1630884;1490202368;mircea_popescu;shockley period americans didn't have much trouble distinguishing car from rickshaw. 1630885;1490202380;mircea_popescu;"but everyone rickshaws!" not for long, bitches. 1630886;1490202416;asciilifeform;funnily enough (at least to me) even the humble rickshaw was introduced by the white man 1630887;1490202424;asciilifeform;( prior -- oxcart, or legs, pick. ) 1630888;1490202438;mircea_popescu;aha. different period tho. 1630889;1490202443;asciilifeform;yea 1630890;1490202495;asciilifeform;incidentally.. there are pedal-powered rickshaws in washington. for ~decade nao. 1630891;1490202536;asciilifeform;~100% of the pedallers : white d00dz in their 20s, 'college victims' 1630892;1490202552;mircea_popescu;i expect they're just trying to meet girls. 1630893;1490202579;mircea_popescu;(there's a reason bar wenches were female, and the reason is, that originally it was a very reasonable way to get yourself mated.) 1630894;1490202584;asciilifeform;from the position of a draft horse?! 1630895;1490202602;mircea_popescu;why not ? submissive sex, gotta display, neh ? 1630896;1490202614;asciilifeform;no i was speaking of the pedal folx 1630897;1490202616;mircea_popescu;chick knows what she's buying and how much it costs, mebbe-mebbe. 1630898;1490202619;mircea_popescu;yes. 1630899;1490202716;phf;i know a guy who rickshaws (in new york, now in austin), and loved it for that very reason. i think he stopped because young girls don't typically get pedicab, mostly drunken old women who "grab his ass" etc. 1630900;1490202743;mircea_popescu;so he turns around and "ass grabbing carries a twenny dollar fine m'am" 1630901;1490202840;phf;he's not that smooth, though that would be a sop reaction in india 1630902;1490202842;mircea_popescu;contrary to the common fantasy, most betas would actually be a lot fucking happier if they could live in out and out sexual slavery rather than the bs they're stuck with currently. 1630903;1490202871;mircea_popescu;most "bad relationships" are exactly that. bitter moon (the film) if anyone saw that crap is best summarized as "two subbies arguing who should top that evening". 1630904;1490202876;mircea_popescu;it gets pretty messy. 1630905;1490202927;mircea_popescu;phf and i bet the happenstance that friend-describes-him-as-not-smooth and the incidental that no-hot-chicks-take-to-his-bower are entirely and wholly unrelated in his own estimation, if somehow it were to be obtained yes ? 1630906;1490203174;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: which common fantasy 1630907;1490203195;mircea_popescu;head of household or w/e. independent agent at the least. 1630908;1490203331;phf;guy connects to trilema from his android, gets banned, still doesn't reach out to anybody. "oh, i'm sorry, my bad, i will learn to wash ass", something 1630909;1490203360;mircea_popescu;most of the tubes lead nowhere / most of the nerves aren't connected / most of the cables lay buried in a pile of mud. 1630910;1490203389;mircea_popescu;postapocalyptica, yes ? "i wonder what this rope is connected to" "nothing." 1630911;1490203434;mircea_popescu;50-50 the "intelligent" app just connects him for good measure and behind the screen. 1630912;1490203462;mircea_popescu;it's the I[di]OT way. browsers "prefetch" pages, on it goes. 1630913;1490203469;phf;"i have an irc client???" 1630914;1490204263;ben_vulpes;in other government science: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39351833 1630915;1490204292;mircea_popescu;ten years later i finally figured out what fucking possessed nival to ruin heroes of might and magic 5. 1630916;1490204305;mircea_popescu;they were trying to do final fantasy tactics! holy shit, a decade later 1630917;1490205451;ben_vulpes;https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/03/30-years-ago-a-look-back-at-1987/520290/ << featuring agent orange, liza minella, old compaqs, the clintons, and a few ships on fire 1630918;1490205505;ben_vulpes;minelli* 1630919;1490205798;asciilifeform;'Pennsylvania State Treasurer R. Budd Dwyer holds a pistol as he prepared to shoot himself in front of cameras during a news conference in his State Capitol office in Harrisburg.' << pretty great 1630920;1490205804;asciilifeform;where did these go. 1630921;1490206193;mircea_popescu;the ones that did it, to the graveyard. the replacements -- don't do it. 1630922;1490206214;asciilifeform;noshit 1630923;1490206220;mircea_popescu;hey, you asked! :D 1630924;1490206237;asciilifeform;'where am i?' 'you are in a car' 1630925;1490206254;mircea_popescu;lol 1630926;1490206525;asciilifeform;'Since Dwyer died in office, his widow Joanne was able to collect full survivor benefits, totaling over $1.28 million.' --pediwik 1630927;1490206527;asciilifeform;lulzy. 1630928;1490206561;mircea_popescu;yeah, dead lizard srs bad news for the empire. 1630929;1490206567;mircea_popescu;kinda the point of killing them, really. 1630930;1490206601;asciilifeform;pretty minor league lizard, afaik. 1630931;1490206624;mircea_popescu;and it still is a whole million of 1980 dollars. 1630932;1490206647;asciilifeform;iirc - a postman's widow could collect a mil. depending on when he dies. 1630933;1490207119;ben_vulpes;heh "current" ppc gentoo build is dated 2014? 1630934;1490207163;asciilifeform;heh, that's what, 4? 5? yrs after the last ppc box was sold other than secondhand? 1630935;1490207195;asciilifeform;gentoo afaik never had a theo de raadt, with cellar full of vax, pdp 1630936;1490207232;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you really oughta cross-compile the whole shebang 1630937;1490207239;asciilifeform;as asciilifeform did for, e.g., pogo. 1630938;1490207377;ben_vulpes;surely that's not going to be as simple as adding the right CROSS_COMPILE flag to portage conf files, right? 1630939;1490207400;asciilifeform;probably not. 1630940;1490207426;mircea_popescu;eh why the hell not. you're gonna be the lucky one, 1630941;1490207431;ben_vulpes;what would "the right way" to "cross-compile the whole shebang" be? 1630942;1490207433;mircea_popescu;software'll just work for you. 1630943;1490207436;mircea_popescu;why the hell not. 1630944;1490207439;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: thanks mircea_popescu 1630945;1490207546;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: see the pogo build articles. 1630946;1490207651;ben_vulpes;aye aye 1630947;1490207725;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html << arm cross-flags example (from ye olde trb) 1630948;1490207809;asciilifeform;actually strike that, 1630949;1490207816;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html << recipe 1630950;1490207827;asciilifeform;^ includes the buildroot process 1630951;1490207998;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, https://archive.is/F7Vjc << from the world of opsecfail lulz. 1630952;1490208034;asciilifeform;^ complete with 'oh it wasn't the tor, believe' 1630953;1490208035;mircea_popescu;fentanyl ? druglords ? 1630954;1490208045;mircea_popescu;whats next, titus anime steel ? 1630955;1490208169;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/0qmNU << from same rag. 'The US Third Circuit Court of Appeals today upheld a lower court ruling of contempt against a chap who claimed he couldn't remember the password to decrypt his computer's hard drives.' 1630956;1490208181;mircea_popescu;aww 1630957;1490208189;asciilifeform;any day nao, peine forte et dure comes back!111 1630958;1490208196;asciilifeform;it's the logical end. 1630959;1490208209;asciilifeform;(then -- 'coke machine.') 1630960;1490208252;ben_vulpes;why, if prosecution relies on "known hashes" are these verboten integers not twiddled ever so slightly for each customer? 1630961;1490208272;mircea_popescu;known hashes ? 1630962;1490208289;ben_vulpes;"thousands of files with the same hash values as known child pornography files" 1630963;1490208303;mircea_popescu;ah. you are asking the wrong question. 1630964;1490208317;ben_vulpes;would be funny to re-release all of those files fuzzed ever so slightly 1630965;1490208317;mircea_popescu;the right question is, why doesn't twitter alter all its images on the fly to hit those hashes 1630966;1490208327;mircea_popescu;and the answer is, because twitter is part of usg, not part of the internet. 1630967;1490208329;ben_vulpes;bloat the "known hashes" db rightly. 1630968;1490208349;ben_vulpes;oooh and make a bunch of work for 'ai' image recognition programmers 1630969;1490208359;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: afaik they use humans 1630970;1490208382;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: at what point in the toolchain? 1630971;1490208419;mircea_popescu;how exactly were some people capable of geting "hashes" of files they need some dork's password to decrypt ? 1630972;1490208430;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: when deciding what to plant on the 'criminal' comp, naturally 1630973;1490208462;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: "decrypted mac pro but not external hdds" 1630974;1490208467;mircea_popescu;... 1630975;1490208475;mircea_popescu;maybe i'm slow, but i can't connect that to the q ? 1630976;1490208492;ben_vulpes;didja read the article? 1630977;1490208498;mircea_popescu;ah i did not. 1630978;1490215049;asciilifeform;readerz write in : https://www.ctrlc.hu/~stef/blog/posts/pitchfork.html << new tardano. 1630979;1490215116;asciilifeform;meanwhile, ACHTUNG s.nsa customers! moar FUCKGOATS shipped today. see your invoice www pg to learn if yours was in this batch. 1630980;1490215321;asciilifeform;https://camp.hsbp.org/2016/pp7e0/fahrplan/system/attachments/22/original/camp__.pdf << sooo i look at his pcb -- antenna track?! then read, 'key exchange over 2.4GHz', 'post-quantum crypto (newhope and symmetric)' 1630981;1490215333;asciilifeform;that was pretty quick snoar-inducer. 1630982;1490215452;Framedragger;hm, even among new hipster crypto people newhope was still supposed to be 'experimental' / new (2015) 1630983;1490215493;Framedragger;it's one thing tor jumping ahead with newhope because omg POSTQUANTUM, but a pgp board.. lol 1630984;1490215529;asciilifeform;aaaaanything-but-rsa!!!1111 1630985;1490215557;Framedragger;the radio interface is hipsta but talk about increased attack surface omg. 1630986;1490215568;shinohai;Bored with all those other apps? Examine thy semen! http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/3/22/15009960/male-fertility-device-smartphone-app-semen-test 1630987;1490215576;Framedragger;luckily there haven't been any leakage of key material over radio 1630988;1490215579;asciilifeform;Framedragger: for some reason 9 out of 10 tardanos have onboard radios. 1630989;1490215612;Framedragger;congratz on fuckgoats shipments asciilifeform btw 1630990;1490215620;asciilifeform;Framedragger: got yours yet ? 1630991;1490215620;Framedragger;and congratz mod6 on V release 1630992;1490215633;ben_vulpes;!!up eo 1630993;1490215633;deedbot;eo voiced for 30 minutes. 1630994;1490215681;Framedragger;asciilifeform: not yet, airstrip1 royalmail.legit.biz must still be scanning it :) 1630995;1490215681;ben_vulpes;does nobody up strangers anymore? 1630996;1490215705;Framedragger;(mail from US takes a while here sometimes) 1630997;1490215732;asciilifeform;i do idly wonder what the parcels will look like on the other end of their trip. 1630998;1490215754;asciilifeform;that one time i sent a sample of boards to mircea_popescu , in 2014, was a real lulzfest 1630999;1490215792;ben_vulpes;heh, link? pics? 1631000;1490215809;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: iirc he posted a photo at some point, is in the l0gz 1631001;1490215952;ben_vulpes;i assume, yes, and ask as i have nfi what even to search for 1631002;1490215963;phf;ben_vulpes: i was thinking of wiring in an auto-upper for never seen accounts, but given the quality of ups.. i do wonder, if were to up them "faster" maybe they'll talk better 1631003;1490216010;ben_vulpes;i'd almost rather see an auto-kicker 1631004;1490216012;Framedragger;#trilema-lounge 1631005;1490216048;ben_vulpes;"has nick joined and parted within the past week without saying anything after receiving voice?" 1631006;1490216083;Framedragger;bots autoup folks there, use channel as funnel of good material into #trilema; or, bots calculate entropy of nicks outputting there, creating automatic pipeline.. horrible idea i know 1631007;1490216141;phf;i'm not sure the idea is relevant, since you can just have an open channel for funneling already 1631008;1490216167;phf;but it's not advertised anywhere. bulk of random strangers is going t come here 1631009;1490216173;Framedragger;yeah sure 1631010;1490216194;phf;also the whole "funnel of good material" was the original idea behind mp's "start your own channels" 1631011;1490216225;ben_vulpes;i'll be surprised if new people are even welcome without immediately joining the wot and introducing themselves much after q3 1631012;1490216308;Framedragger;ben_vulpes: q3? like, 3rd quarter of year? 1631013;1490216332;ben_vulpes;Framedragger: what else 1631014;1490216341;Framedragger;just sounded oddly specific 1631015;1490216393;ben_vulpes;"much after q3" is specific to you? 1631016;1490216410;ben_vulpes;nm, chores 1631017;1490216418;*;ben_vulpes bbl 1631018;1490216538;Framedragger;i simply haven't internalised the republic's world_takeover_timeline.txt 1631019;1490216616;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1630987 << for a second this looked like a response to the previous line :D 1631020;1490216616;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 20:46 Framedragger: luckily there haven't been any leakage of key material over radio 1631021;1490216928;Framedragger;heh works well with both :) 1631022;1490217673;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631002 << the remoras, historically, have shown 0 interest in talking, or - when talking - in making any sense 1631023;1490217673;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 20:52 phf: ben_vulpes: i was thinking of wiring in an auto-upper for never seen accounts, but given the quality of ups.. i do wonder, if were to up them "faster" maybe they'll talk better 1631024;1490217694;asciilifeform;the folx who actually want to speak -- and have something to say -- follow the instructions, they ask somebody for an 'up'. 1631025;1490217790;ben_vulpes;mhm 1631026;1490218900;asciilifeform;!!up fd_travel 1631027;1490218901;deedbot;fd_travel voiced for 30 minutes. 1631028;1490218910;fd_travel;good news, scriba et al.'s hosting provider is doing maintenance again, only this time it's scheduled (http://gedimai.iv.lt/?id=610) 1631029;1490218919;*;fd_travel will change provider. 1631030;1490218944;asciilifeform;kernel?! 1631031;1490218947;asciilifeform;it's on a vps?! 1631032;1490218968;ben_vulpes;such interrobang 1631033;1490218970;fd_travel;yesyes. fwiw the ssh banner db is on dedicated server. i just have an old vps which has been doing just fine actually 1631034;1490218987;fd_travel;for websites n' stuff. but need to move to normal box 1631035;1490219010;fd_travel;hey to my knowledge quite a bit of tmsr infra is on vps :) 1631036;1490219034;ben_vulpes;do you have a citation for that claim? 1631037;1490219058;fd_travel;i recall checking deedbot's and a111's IPs (digitalocean etc), but hey, if it worx. 1631038;1490219068;fd_travel;that said, not the best of arguments. 1631039;1490219074;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform's www is on a vps, has been for decade+ , but it is not 'infrastructure'. ) 1631040;1490219078;fd_travel;(so, to be clear -- will move) 1631041;1490219084;ben_vulpes;do has full boxes for rent 1631042;1490219134;fd_travel;mk. (anyway, that was inane of me, need to move forward, not sideways) 1631043;1490219150;fd_travel;ah hi scriba 1631044;1490219165;ben_vulpes;don't they? 1631045;1490219195;fd_travel;i wouldn't trust their virtualised 'dedicated box' offer to actually be dedicated but who knows 1631046;1490219196;ben_vulpes;suppose not, color me wrong. 1631047;1490219203;*;fd_travel has used DO before, does its job 1631048;1490219268;asciilifeform;i am actually rather fond of my vps hoster, nfs co (discussed in the logs at least twice, one of which was the time mircea_popescu wrote to them 'why not bitcoin?' and they answered 'bitcoin is a snore', he then barfed) 1631049;1490219291;asciilifeform;i pay couplea bux per mo for what is in effect five-nines uptime, and the closest thing i've ever seen to infinite ddos resistance 1631050;1490219373;asciilifeform;and with 0 'cloudflare' or whatever other hipsterism. 1631051;1490219390;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: nfs does 'vps'? 1631052;1490219397;asciilifeform;the minus is that it is (yes) in usa, and has very limited support for anything that isn't text www 1631053;1490219402;fd_travel;i wonder how they handle ddos. i mean, maybe your blog is just not baitsy enough :p 1631054;1490219458;ben_vulpes;in other top lols, you can now have a "custom gender" in the google play store 1631055;1490219466;ben_vulpes;my gender is now "Marquis" 1631056;1490219512;asciilifeform;fd_travel: they have a strange and ancient setup, you use their nameserver, the boxes actually serving up your thing, vary, the ip is not static, quite eldritch 1631057;1490219548;fd_travel;huh custom load balancing magic 1631058;1490219564;asciilifeform;aha, and long before 'it was hip' 1631059;1490219647;asciilifeform;they also claim that they have never dropped a paying account other than by court order , but i have no way of knowing if true. 1631060;1490219671;asciilifeform;at any rate, for the price it is quite impossible to beat, i have nfi how they are able to supply this kind of service, at that price. 1631061;1490219682;fd_travel;yeah i liked quite a few things about them when i spotted them long ago, micro-precision accounting, etc. 1631062;1490219690;asciilifeform;aha, pay per byte. 1631063;1490219725;asciilifeform;(they also have a thing, iirc, where you can buy 'buckets' of bandwidth, for use in case of elaborate ddos, but i have not tried it) 1631064;1490219763;asciilifeform;the unfortunate thing is that nfs co. is quite useless for most of the purposes of most folx here. 1631065;1490219773;asciilifeform;no persistent unix processes permitted. 1631066;1490219780;Framedragger;(scriba failing to self-up - checking) 1631067;1490219868;Framedragger;(*ah*, that separate "UP" in deedbot's msg) 1631068;1490219882;asciilifeform;also ben_vulpes may be right, i do not know if the proper name for what nfs co does is 'vps'. 1631069;1490219891;asciilifeform;it is more barbaric, even, than vps. 1631070;1490219942;ben_vulpes;shared hosting, traditionally, no? but what else is a vps but shared hosting 1631071;1490219987;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it is closer to vps, actually, you get an ssh login and a thing that superficially resembles an actual linux box from inside said ssh 1631072;1490220004;asciilifeform;(rather than a proprietary crapolade uploader, or ftp, as typical in ye olde 'shared host') 1631073;1490220053;asciilifeform;but of course it is emulated, and is expected to not hog the cpu. 1631074;1490220065;ben_vulpes;wacky 1631075;1490220068;ben_vulpes;i don't want to think about that 1631076;1490220071;asciilifeform;afaik unique. 1631077;1490220088;ben_vulpes;possibly lxc-alike per ssh conn? 1631078;1490220106;asciilifeform;i do not in fact know the exact mechanism. 1631079;1490220118;asciilifeform;whatever it is, had to have been around in '07. 1631080;1490220120;asciilifeform;and earlier. 1631081;1490220143;asciilifeform;for all i know, they wrote from scratch. 1631082;1490220240;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: you get a postgres process tho. by ticking a box in the www acct panel; it then magically appears in your pseudolinux. 1631083;1490220286;Framedragger;(k fixd) 1631084;1490220311;Framedragger;asciilifeform: pretty nifty! 1631085;1490220374;asciilifeform;Framedragger: it suffers -- besides the obvious minuses described earlier -- from the martian problem. i.e. if it ever dies, there is no ready replacement 1631086;1490220383;asciilifeform;wholly custom, made by perhaps long-dead gnomes. 1631087;1490220403;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: whoa a whole process? not a connection? 1631088;1490220428;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: we are speaking of simulacra. i have nfi if it is physically a 'whole' process. 1631089;1490220448;asciilifeform;certainly nobody ought to suffer any delusion of crypto-isolation, when buying vpsolade. 1631090;1490220452;ben_vulpes;spooky 1631091;1490220529;asciilifeform;the thing is hyper-optimized for hosting well-ddosed blogs. and specifically ones running on 1990s-style software, where the cpu is idle except when somebody is actually loading a page. but other than that imposes no restrictions on proggies you run, last i saw you even had gcc in there, could build own, run. 1631092;1490220587;asciilifeform;i set up a lisp in there once, even (i forget which, may have been clisp) but it was a pain, whole process had to be born when page is loaded, and promptly die 1631093;1490220597;mircea_popescu;in other news, mp takes girl to picnic at neighbourhood park, she goes naked, within 15 minutes there's half a dozen local cops around the blanket being all concerned. 1631094;1490220625;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: is that even a ticketable offense in mircea_popesculandia ? 1631095;1490220637;asciilifeform;( in usa it is just short of armed robbery , afaik, though ianal ) 1631096;1490220638;mircea_popescu;i didn't get a ticket for it. 1631097;1490220643;mircea_popescu;but apparently TEH WOMEN complained. 1631098;1490220654;asciilifeform;who ELSE could've possibly complained lel 1631099;1490220691;mircea_popescu;anyway, to my eye the amusing thing is that if you get a nude hottie out in the open, what'll happen is the half dozen boys that'll dare approach will a) be symbolically protected by their magical uniform garb and b) ask for the perturbation in the force be removed OH PLEASE GOD MAKE IT GO AWAY. 1631100;1490220738;mircea_popescu;somewhat at odds with the public imagination of you know, gangrape-till-daybreak (if imaginer is female) or else "they'll start zombieing around with beers, eventually some dude will try to make money renting folding chairs, that sorta thing". 1631101;1490220817;mircea_popescu;anyway, it was lulzy, "let's see your papers" "well i don't carry them" "why not ?" "the embassy told me not to because i'll get robbed." "oh". 1631102;1490220831;mircea_popescu;apparently they're very enamoured with the idea that you get robbed here. nfi why. i guess it keeps them in jobs. 1631103;1490220865;asciilifeform;here in northern monkeystan 'no papers' is a guaranteed trip to the station. 1631104;1490220889;mircea_popescu;i suspect everyone in the field just HAD to come over to see this wonder. i'm guessing they literally never heard of such before. 1631105;1490220913;mircea_popescu;anyway. sarge explained to me that it's not done here. and also wanted to know if i "consume" 1631106;1490220922;mircea_popescu;which i deduce is their slang for smoking pot. 1631107;1490220928;mircea_popescu;because, he points out, also not to be done in public. 1631108;1490220946;ben_vulpes;what, he wasn't going to offer you one for the privilege of staring at your babe? 1631109;1490220973;mircea_popescu;i think he was married. there was a very hot and bothared youth. he made it first. 1631110;1490220982;mircea_popescu;i imagine he ran. also i don't imagine he got any this year. 1631111;1490221018;mircea_popescu;"omg she was completely naked!!1" 1631112;1490221026;mircea_popescu;was trying to get phones from the people around "for evidence". 1631113;1490221059;asciilifeform;waiwat 1631114;1490221069;asciilifeform;how would that work 1631115;1490221081;mircea_popescu;i have nfi. he never heard of tumblr i guess ? 1631116;1490221084;diana_coman;that sounds close enough/toward the "make money renting folding chairs" though, doesn't it? 1631117;1490221087;diana_coman;the"evidence" 1631118;1490221090;asciilifeform;presumption being that they took photos, of the 'crime scene'..? 1631119;1490221092;mircea_popescu;yep, quite exactly diana_coman 1631120;1490221106;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform well... considering what's on youtube, i wouldn't be surprised if they had. 1631121;1490221149;diana_coman;so perhaps not that much at odds after all; re the female imagined part, I suspect that has more to do with fact that ... "what'll happen" depends on who gets her out 1631122;1490221172;mircea_popescu;eh. no way in fuck anyone walks up to a naked woman and talks to her. 1631123;1490221177;mircea_popescu;they can't do it even when dressed. 1631124;1490221220;diana_coman;what, no "gipsy" anywhere? 1631125;1490221237;mircea_popescu;hm ? 1631126;1490221576;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1630979 << omaigerd stop dribbling them out!!1 1631127;1490221576;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 20:38 asciilifeform: meanwhile, ACHTUNG s.nsa customers! moar FUCKGOATS shipped today. see your invoice www pg to learn if yours was in this batch. 1631128;1490221603;diana_coman;back in Ro, in my experience gipsies had fewer if any such troubles re speaking to women, naked or not; they were quite cowards (i.e. if someone took them to task/seemed powerful around they would retreat) but otherwise not suffering from much anxiety re the interaction itself 1631129;1490221621;mircea_popescu;and fuck me i'm not reading that ctrlc.hu marmalade. "after years of marmalade im done" 1631130;1490221630;mircea_popescu;diana_coman no gypsies. 1631131;1490221652;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you missed nothing. 1631132;1490221664;asciilifeform;thing is entirely summarized in the log. 1631133;1490222691;trinque;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631037 << must be recalling with arse neurons. 1631134;1490222691;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 21:44 fd_travel: i recall checking deedbot's and a111's IPs (digitalocean etc), but hey, if it worx. 1631135;1490222787;trinque;!#s from:trinque datacenter 1631136;1490222787;a111;3 results for "from:trinque datacenter", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Atrinque%20datacenter 1631137;1490222888;trinque;starting to tire of this kid's sideways manner of talking. 1631138;1490222964;trinque;ftr, all trb downloads come from a dedicated deeds box I've been happy to run as core infrastructure pro bono. 1631139;1490222980;trinque;those downloads of deeds are coming from my pipe, not "our VPS" 1631140;1490223009;ben_vulpes;this leaves i believe phf's wintermute, with its once-decade of uptime 1631141;1490223066;trinque;strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded; he is hosting the V stuff. 1631142;1490223215;trinque;and understand, outside of the L1, your opinion on how infrastructure is run is worth nothing, and your "everyone does X, so I can" construction makes you sound like a bed-wetter. 1631143;1490223330;mod6;<+trinque> strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded; he is hosting the V stuff. << fwiw it's also posted to the ML which is on some other environment. 1631144;1490223369;ben_vulpes;in entirely others topics, gentoo quest ppc edition has stumbled on step boot-from-usb 1631145;1490223374;ben_vulpes;so i have procured OPTICAL MEDIA 1631146;1490223410;trinque;mod6: I'm quite happy to host anything that supports trb work 1631147;1490223418;trinque;ben_vulpes: there's some txbi thing in openfirmware 1631148;1490223426;trinque;buncha weird slashes and nonsense spells 1631149;1490223489;mod6;also, I think the idea of deedifying my version of V is also worthwhile... I think I've simply been waiting for it to satisfy the constraints before creating a genesis. Once that's created, then I'd say it'd be worthy of freezing. 1631150;1490223504;trinque;ben_vulpes: https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/macppc/INSTALL.macppc << I want to say the device comes up as "ud" for USB... sometimes 1631151;1490223522;ben_vulpes;yeah i got into open firmware, attempted booting from all usb options 1631152;1490223524;trinque;not that you're doing obsd, but the docs there are helpful 1631153;1490223536;ben_vulpes;sans incantations because i had no idea which would take 1631154;1490223541;ben_vulpes;optical media is a go, though. 1631155;1490223551;trinque;sweet 1631156;1490223556;ben_vulpes;thing showed up with a fresh 10.4 install 1631157;1490223566;*;ben_vulpes sighs a sigh for the days gone by 1631158;1490223624;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: is this one of those boxes that had liquid cooler standard ? 1631159;1490223630;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: negative 1631160;1490223648;asciilifeform;( iirc the quad core one, had ) 1631161;1490223676;ben_vulpes;i've yet to lay hands on a qc 1631162;1490223709;asciilifeform;was the last 'serious' crapple 1631163;1490223722;asciilifeform;(i.e. not a repainted wintel box, but actual exotica) 1631164;1490223771;asciilifeform;http://s3.postimg.org/qonfcus43/G5_Dual_LCU.jpg << subj. 1631165;1490223796;ben_vulpes;huh 1631166;1490223808;ben_vulpes;i don't think i want watercooled irreplaceable computronium 1631167;1490223855;Framedragger;trinque: sorry for the noise, man. you're right, of course. 1631168;1490223960;ben_vulpes;"iirc" is fine...provided one r's c 1631169;1490223991;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: it wasn't the quad ? 1631170;1490224012;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: i don't have any quads yet 1631171;1490224019;asciilifeform;aah 1631172;1490224028;ben_vulpes;and if they're water cooled i'll probably pass 1631173;1490224035;trinque;seems like quads are a bit harder to find 1631174;1490224045;ben_vulpes;trinque: probably still in use at graphics hausen 1631175;1490224053;trinque;aha 1631176;1490224060;asciilifeform;if you ever do find -- fill it with fluorinert. 1631177;1490224125;ben_vulpes;this is like a water cooled small plane engine 1631178;1490224179;ben_vulpes;as if the plane weren't stupidly complex enough already, let's bolt another pile of heinous complexity to it as well 1631179;1490224191;*;asciilifeform had a water-cooled box, with around six litres, for some years. (it ~did~ eventually leak.) 1631180;1490224204;ben_vulpes;it is unavoidable! 1631181;1490224223;ben_vulpes;helicopters are also unconscionably complex devices 1631182;1490224288;asciilifeform;i could picture a water-cooled thing with a very short loop, and good seals (i.e. no expectation of ever being able to disassemble it: welded copper pipes, like your fridge) not leaking. 1631183;1490224304;asciilifeform;at least for few decades. 1631184;1490224325;ben_vulpes;may as well immerse in mineral oil at that point. 1631185;1490224335;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: iirc we had this thread 1631186;1490224338;ben_vulpes;right 1631187;1490224342;asciilifeform;konsoomer electronics doesn't much like oil 1631188;1490224348;asciilifeform;(electrolytic caps, in particular) 1631189;1490224354;asciilifeform;you'd have to varnish them, i suspect. 1631190;1490224358;ben_vulpes;the one additional point possibly worth making is that don't run your engines hot if you want them to last. 1631191;1490224381;ben_vulpes;you want to hoon around the parking lot making smoke? buy a drift slut, don't do that to the wrx 1631192;1490224442;ben_vulpes;not only is that terrible for your alignment but if you ever even come close to hitting the rev limiter in a car you want to preserve the value of.... 1631193;1490224444;ben_vulpes;heaven help you 1631194;1490224522;asciilifeform;http://www.parallax-tech.com/fluorine.htm << fluorinert peddler in small qrt. asciilifeform has not tried. but entertaining read. 1631195;1490224530;asciilifeform;*qnt. 1631196;1490224660;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes> in entirely others topics, gentoo quest ppc edition has stumbled on step boot-from-usb << entirely typical of my experience of this wonder. 1631197;1490224743;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform hvac units leak after about 3 years. 1631198;1490224771;asciilifeform;where, in aerial combat over vietnam ? 1631199;1490224779;mircea_popescu;in commercial deployments. 1631200;1490224806;asciilifeform;even in humble auto, ~0 typically, mine was last filled decade ago. 1631201;1490224808;asciilifeform;and worx. 1631202;1490224860;mircea_popescu;hey. musta not been made in china. 1631203;1490224873;asciilifeform;yea it's a pre-plastic auto. 1631204;1490224882;asciilifeform;among the last. 1631205;1490224899;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631002 << terrible idea. 1631206;1490224899;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 20:52 phf: ben_vulpes: i was thinking of wiring in an auto-upper for never seen accounts, but given the quality of ups.. i do wonder, if were to up them "faster" maybe they'll talk better 1631207;1490224920;mircea_popescu;let them fix their problems themselves. 1631208;1490224972;*;shinohai remembers the Dogecoin chan had this, worked exactly as one would expect ..... 1631209;1490224973;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631005 << this is not a bad idea, for eventually. 1631210;1490224973;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 20:54 ben_vulpes: "has nick joined and parted within the past week without saying anything after receiving voice?" 1631211;1490225148;*;ben_vulpes off 1631212;1490225233;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631052 << part of the problem is eg trilema has i dun recall how many gb of acumulated pix. though i've seen very hardcore text blogs and didn't look so bad. 1631213;1490225233;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 21:49 asciilifeform: the minus is that it is (yes) in usa, and has very limited support for anything that isn't text www 1631214;1490225259;asciilifeform;i also have a gb or so of pix. 1631215;1490225267;asciilifeform;(not , naturally, as many as trilema.) 1631216;1490225278;mircea_popescu;ah. then non-text www works fine too 1631217;1490225311;asciilifeform;what i meant was, text vs 'apps' or whatever other strange 'modern' crapola 1631218;1490225343;asciilifeform;( and you couldn't put, e.g., trb in there. ) 1631219;1490225584;mircea_popescu;yea 1631220;1490225597;mircea_popescu;course the "apps" are mostly js neh 1631221;1490225690;mircea_popescu;tbh i have nfi how you could run trb in a vps. i don't think it's possible, not really. would be certainly quite the medal of merit on any software that can handle such. 1631222;1490225696;asciilifeform;you couldn't 1631223;1490225705;asciilifeform;nor have i any notion of why to try 1631224;1490225932;asciilifeform;( it'll be interesting , however, if i ever actually turn 'nqb' into something like a btctron, to see what it'll run on, with the programmable memory footprint and hard-realtime mechanics.. ) 1631225;1490225951;pete_dushenski;ben_vulpes: i've spent the last couple evenings since ppc thread re-emerged trying to run openbsd 6 on macppc. can't get the bloody machine to recognise cdrom OR usb. open firmware, boot screen, etc nada zilch zip. 1631226;1490225962;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: what kind of box was this 1631227;1490225986;pete_dushenski;2.0ghz dual core with 9600 card. vintage '05 iirc 1631228;1490225999;pete_dushenski;10.4 installed, 2.5gb ram. 1631229;1490226023;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes, pete_dushenski , trinque , et al : here's a top from asciilifeform's house of horrors : don't bother selective-booting the things. just yank the drive and put what you want on it ~directly~, then put back. 1631230;1490226034;asciilifeform;i don't recall ever installing gentoo, for instance, any other way 1631231;1490226064;asciilifeform;*a tip from 1631232;1490226111;pete_dushenski;myea, that's next step for sure. was trying to configure dual boot for no other reason than that i like the idea of 10.4 in the house. but that's probably a lost cause. there's only so much time to dump into the sinkhole. 1631233;1490226114;asciilifeform;if the box eats reasonably ordinary (e.g. sata) disks, rather than, say, differential scsi (sgi, sun) or archaic ???s (symbolics 36xx, others) -- even easier. 1631234;1490226144;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: lolwhy 1631235;1490226148;asciilifeform;10.4 iirc was a bitch 1631236;1490226161;pete_dushenski;nostalgia has no whys 1631237;1490226167;asciilifeform;nostalgia --> os9 1631238;1490226190;asciilifeform;btw maybe pete_dushenski can tell me the seekrit of how to get 'lombard' to eat an ssd. 1631239;1490226200;asciilifeform;i tried five different ones, incl. compactflash adapters, no dice. 1631240;1490226218;asciilifeform;thing gathers dust nao. 1631241;1490226276;phf;pretty sure it won't, i even read a reason for it, but don't recall what it is anymore 1631242;1490226277;pete_dushenski;powerbook g3 ? thought those were nifty as a kid but i was still on desktops at the time. brief foray into laptopery didn't come until college in 04 1631243;1490226285;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: yea, them 1631244;1490226306;asciilifeform;phf: interesting, if you ever remember what it was, lemme know plz 1631245;1490226329;asciilifeform;i tried same disk i used (successfully) in 'libretto 100ct', still 0 result. 1631246;1490226345;asciilifeform;standard, you'd think, pata. but nope. 1631247;1490226352;asciilifeform;box won't see it. 1631248;1490226361;phf;"standard" 1631249;1490226368;mircea_popescu;standard pata :D 1631250;1490226383;mircea_popescu;"this is a standard ibm pc at clone" 1631251;1490226394;asciilifeform;hey there was actually a standard. 1631252;1490226399;mircea_popescu;"standard in which way ?" "that's unspecified." 1631253;1490226400;asciilifeform;with timings & all. 1631254;1490226441;asciilifeform;(ssd pata disks work fine in dos boxes, etc) 1631255;1490226551;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: have you tried https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_Legacy_Pro with the lombard ? 'ide/ata design' 1631256;1490226573;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: not that particular one, no. 1631257;1490226666;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: i don't even see any mention of g3 lappy on the vendor's www 1631258;1490226763;PeterL;asciilifeform: is your gentoo recipe published somewhere? I tried searching the logs, but all I found was an expired dpaste? 1631259;1490226786;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/powerbook << not listed. 1631260;1490226792;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: aha nvm. that owc drive works with pismo 1631261;1490226806;pete_dushenski;not other g3 powerbooks tho 1631262;1490226826;asciilifeform;PeterL: https://archive.is/VA3ov 1631263;1490226839;asciilifeform;PeterL: ^ that's all there ever was to it 1631264;1490226846;PeterL;ok, thanks! 1631265;1490226875;asciilifeform;PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-11#1601534 << example kernel config 1631266;1490226875;a111;Logged on 2017-01-11 18:45 asciilifeform: phf: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/4_1_15_stas.txt 1631267;1490226878;asciilifeform;from same. 1631268;1490226931;phf;i ended up running openbsd on that box 1631269;1490226947;asciilifeform;phf: how did that go ? 1631270;1490226954;*;asciilifeform still has a 'libretto' with openbsd 1631271;1490226974;phf;everything just works 1631272;1490227022;phf;i think the only thing i haven't tried yet is the stylus, which doesn't work if you just startx. i vaguely suspect there's a second mouse device i need to wire into the right place.. 1631273;1490227023;asciilifeform;incl. x11 emacs sans dbus ? 1631274;1490227037;asciilifeform;( was where i ran out of stamina ) 1631275;1490227072;asciilifeform;phf: the wacom ? it's a 2nd mouse, aha 1631276;1490227085;phf;please refer to yesterday's thread re emacs :D 1631277;1490227094;mircea_popescu;lmao 1631278;1490227094;asciilifeform;lel 1631279;1490227100;asciilifeform;PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-20#1436604 << was even tested!111 1631280;1490227100;a111;Logged on 2016-03-20 13:54 mircea_popescu: phf> ok, not sure if anybody tried yet, but asciilifeform's gentoo chicken works as prescribed << it does, yes, and it IS a very good and useful thing. almost makes me feel bad when mocking linuxen. 1631281;1490227123;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: 16gb 1.8" sandisk seems to work https://68kmla.org/forums/index.php?/topic/15077-possibly-the-quickest-drive-for-the-powerbook-g3/ perhaps larger capacities too. 1631282;1490227153;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: on examination it turns out the box is a 'wallstreet' 1631283;1490227157;asciilifeform;not a 'lombard'. 1631284;1490227164;pete_dushenski;lolk 1631285;1490227168;asciilifeform;and i have literally that disk here, in the tray, 0 result. 1631286;1490227168;pete_dushenski;i give up 1631287;1490227201;asciilifeform;tried various cf cards in (mechanical) adapter, also. 1631288;1490227215;asciilifeform;(large, small, == the original disk, all same.) 1631289;1490227360;asciilifeform;oh while phf is awake ! : didja ever get that ivory cpu working ? 1631290;1490227473;phf;oh yeah, i forgot about it. i got distracted because my console is not here with me, so i spent some time setting up xorg/telnet/networking 1631291;1490227479;asciilifeform;aah ok 1631292;1490227502;phf;i'm trying to figure out why genera's x client is crashing openbsd x server. but once i do i'll try the chip 1631293;1490227532;asciilifeform;interesting ^ -- apparently x11 was not as standard as i thought 1631294;1490227568;phf;"standard" 1631295;1490227570;asciilifeform;( and do i misread, or is phf's setup the reverse of the usual one, where genera is the server, and unix box -- client ? ) 1631296;1490227619;phf;you can do it either way, but right now genera is client and unix is server 1631297;1490227676;phf;apparently there's an xserver implementation in genera! so can probably get xterm displayed. 1631298;1490227676;asciilifeform;seems like a way to make a really slow xterminal ? 1631299;1490227735;phf;i'm confused. genera is client, unix is server means that genera is going to display itself in a window on a unix box. (client/server in xorg terminology) 1631300;1490227759;asciilifeform;aaah i was thinking of the traditional, rather than the x11istic, meanings, yes 1631301;1490227772;asciilifeform;'genera shits x11olade, unix box -- displays to screen and eats keyboard' 1631302;1490227807;asciilifeform;so phf's setup is the usual one then. 1631303;1490227865;phf;yeah, trying to sidestep lack of console 1631304;1490227914;asciilifeform;i always thought this was one of the spiffiest things re the smbx boxes 1631305;1490227920;asciilifeform;that the console is not really needed 1631306;1490227954;asciilifeform;if i ever make the fpgaized thing, it sure as fuck won't bother trying to drive an lcd or eat keyboard, wtf, just speak x11. 1631307;1490227971;asciilifeform;(there is, as of yet, nothing resembling a tolerable substitute for x11 protocol, sadly.) 1631308;1490228001;phf;you mean wayland!1 1631309;1490228016;asciilifeform;i've lost track of all of the crackpot 'i can't believe it's not x11!'s. 1631310;1490228106;phf;i think not-transfering-letter-shapes-over-wire is one of the most useful features of protocol. naturally was first one to get subverted 1631311;1490228117;asciilifeform;aha. 1631312;1490228130;asciilifeform;not moving bitmaps when there is any way to avoid it, also. 1631313;1490228171;asciilifeform;( consider the barbarisms winblowz folx are STILL stuck with, e.g., vnc. ) 1631314;1490228225;asciilifeform;incidentally, i wonder if anybody's ever written a vnc worm. 1631315;1490228236;phf;i think the argument was, you can't do aa with ttf unless you're composing client side. 1631316;1490228281;asciilifeform;( you can easily piss an exe into existence, via vnc, using 'alt codes' , or by getting hold of exploder and pissing in a url to load from, or possibly other ways. similar process in other os with exposed vnctron ) 1631317;1490228336;phf;i tried doing that through the citrix client, no dice (back when i was working for a place tha tuses a citrix client) 1631318;1490228350;asciilifeform;do which 1631319;1490228353;asciilifeform;alt codes ? 1631320;1490228368;phf;yeah 1631321;1490228373;asciilifeform;or what, it won't process 'click on exploder and go to such-n-such url' ? 1631322;1490228473;shinohai;http://archive.is/4AQNB "Rising polonium prices and a stagnant economy force Russians to use gravity poisoning to save rubles" 1631323;1490228521;shinohai;I think our friend Preet was prosecuting that case iirc 1631324;1490228655;asciilifeform;phf: i wonder if anybody still makes ye olde xterminals 1631325;1490228673;asciilifeform;physical ones. the kind that run from rom and just look like lcd monitors with keyboard jack and nic. 1631326;1490228682;asciilifeform;connect to whatever, lose all state when unplugged. 1631327;1490228696;asciilifeform;sun, iirc, made one, but that was eons ago. 1631328;1490228774;phf;that would be a nifty project if it didn't just reduce to "raspberry pi" 1631329;1490228798;asciilifeform;not rom neh 1631330;1490228805;asciilifeform;i did say 'rom', not 'flash'. 1631331;1490228858;phf;xorg in fpga.. 1631332;1490228861;asciilifeform;every couplea months i do an 'can haz otp rom?' and answer, as always, is 'nope', not at any price, simply not made in past 30 yrs. 1631333;1490228879;asciilifeform;the supposed otp roms you can buy now, are actually eproms without the quartz window. 1631334;1490228882;asciilifeform;nothx. 1631335;1490228897;asciilifeform;(they don't come in any size bigger than , iirc, 64kB, either.) 1631336;1490228927;asciilifeform;for instance, i wanted to make FUCKGOATS in otp. no dice. 1631337;1490228932;asciilifeform;not gettable. 1631338;1490228957;asciilifeform;not without paying for the fabbing wholesale (at which point you have asic, and can simply have what you want in the asic) 1631339;1490228988;phf;you ask for such things 1631340;1490228999;phf;it's an alt future technoloyg 1631341;1490229008;asciilifeform;i ask, naively, for tech of 30 yrs ago to be available at some price point 1631342;1490229009;mircea_popescu;alt-1980s 1631343;1490229014;mircea_popescu;emulated in 2030 1631344;1490229014;asciilifeform;but nope. it went the way of mircea_popescu's top hat. 1631345;1490229059;phf;speaking of FUCKGOATS, project PITCHFORK? i still can't get over that one 1631346;1490229068;asciilifeform;phf: lulzy, neh. 1631347;1490229071;mircea_popescu;i thought i was just being paranoid. 1631348;1490229141;asciilifeform;(oh imho a future otp rom, if anyone finds himself sitting on a throne, and wants to make one, ought to have not one but TWO fuses per bit. so that nobody can turn a 1 into a 0 later by blowing an unblown fuse. so you'd have 10 -> 1; 01 -> 0; 11 -> dead cell, ergo dead chip; 00 -> blank cell, only found on blank (new) chip.) 1631349;1490229174;mircea_popescu;nothing prevents you from using a normal one this way as it is. 1631350;1490229181;asciilifeform;ideally you'd have the glass window on it, as on an epro, also! but strictly so that you can read it optically. 1631351;1490229185;asciilifeform;*eprom 1631352;1490229201;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tru! but won't be pin-compatible with traditional roms 1631353;1490229206;asciilifeform;(for some applications this matters) 1631354;1490229214;mircea_popescu;yeah well. 1631355;1490229256;asciilifeform;'if i had a ' hamme^H^H^H^H^Hfab, i'd start with very humble things, like... rom. 1631356;1490229307;mircea_popescu;none of it will work until we have the whip to starve the jus' wanting to masses. 1631357;1490229326;mircea_popescu;them of the "Why should i do it right when i could do it easy" church. 1631358;1490229331;asciilifeform;i thought mircea_popescu was of the notion that you don't need economy of mass to do si fab. 1631359;1490229345;mircea_popescu;you still need anti-mass. 1631360;1490229354;asciilifeform;how so? 1631361;1490229371;asciilifeform;what's to keep mircea_popescu from building one in his cellar ( supposing he felt like it ) 1631362;1490229380;mircea_popescu;ordinary jwz must have no alternatives. otherwise... ordinary jwz will pretend he exists. 1631363;1490229389;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform mircea_popescu already has. 1631364;1490229415;asciilifeform;can haz few mm^2 of die space, mircea_popescu ? 1631365;1490229443;mircea_popescu;point being -- dorks go around pretending they're doing "end to end encryption". this field must not exist in order for mp's cellar fab to work irl. 1631366;1490229472;asciilifeform;it already does not exist, 'but the squirrels don't know' 1631367;1490229488;mircea_popescu;well squirrels gotta find out. 1631368;1490229489;asciilifeform;( per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-07#1579090 canonical ) 1631369;1490229489;a111;Logged on 2016-12-07 15:31 asciilifeform: 'well ~i~! know now that i'm not an acorn. but do THE SQUIRRELS know??????' 1631370;1490229506;mircea_popescu;that's the rub. not "need one billion". you don't. but you DO need a giant fly swatter to oppress teh masses with. 1631371;1490229536;asciilifeform;faux crypto ain't ever going away, it is like homeopathy, astrology, fills a niche in the poor, the lazy, the intellectually powerless, for 'control' 1631372;1490229550;mircea_popescu;homeopathy, etc are all CONSUMER MARKET PHENOMENA. 1631373;1490229563;mircea_popescu;take the consumer away, all these problems of peon opining are solved. 1631374;1490229580;asciilifeform;iirc no less a man than hitler, supported whole stable of alchemists, quacks. 1631375;1490229589;asciilifeform;dun have to be mass/konsoomer oriented. 1631376;1490229591;mircea_popescu;this is what needs buckling, the centenary trend of turning medieval serfs into modern consumers. 1631377;1490229608;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you think hitler was much of a man ?! 1631378;1490229616;asciilifeform;well not garden gnome. 1631379;1490229628;mircea_popescu;srsly now, hitler was a rank imbecile, and in practical terms a major discredit to his country. 1631380;1490229652;mircea_popescu;had germany been led by a sane man, it'd have just maintained a defensive alliance with japan an' argentina. never empowered the idiots, not in italy, not in russia. 1631381;1490229661;asciilifeform;take qin shi huangdi , say. definitely a credit, one of the few credits, to his. 1631382;1490229667;mircea_popescu;stalin without the war would have fallen flat under the weight of his own imbecillity by 1945. 1631383;1490229692;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the quack of 5millenia before is not a comparable item in this scope though. 1631384;1490229699;asciilifeform;'they can stay unfallen under the weight of their imbecility longer than you can stay solvent' or how did it go 1631385;1490229704;mircea_popescu;no way. 1631386;1490229705;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: tru 1631387;1490229730;mircea_popescu;a sanely managed german "empire" would have outcompeted britain out of the ground by 1950. 1631388;1490229735;mircea_popescu;this way, they had to wait till 2020. 1631389;1490229745;mircea_popescu;hitler cost germany a little over halfd a century. 1631390;1490229781;mircea_popescu;"lebensraum" fucking bs. they could have just colonized argentina. it's larger than fucking europe, and richer. 1631391;1490229796;mircea_popescu;but no, the yhad to go die pointlessly in fucking ukraine, so the italians colonized argentina 20 years later 1631392;1490229809;mircea_popescu;and UTTERLY shat it. this country was in the top 5 in 1920. because of the imperial german trade. 1631393;1490229817;mircea_popescu;now it's ~= chad. 1631394;1490229869;mircea_popescu;but to get back to it : no, hitler didn't have much of a clue, nor were any of his decisions either sound, useful or correct. 1631395;1490229898;mircea_popescu;just a derpy application of "to make a small fortune in X first you start with a large fortune." 1631396;1490229918;asciilifeform;point was that 1 idiot with actual money is ~= 10,000,001 with penny. 1631397;1490229922;asciilifeform;in terms of alchemy impact. 1631398;1490229934;mircea_popescu;i doubt this very much. 1631399;1490229950;mircea_popescu;it is much worse to have a town of 1000 populated by 500 idiots with idiots' tastes and 20 bucks to spend each 1631400;1490229958;mircea_popescu;than it is to have one idiot with 20k to burn. 1631401;1490229962;asciilifeform;( and hitler was not even the champ, in his circle. consider the idiot chicken farmer's 'ahnenerbe' for instance. ) 1631402;1490229977;mircea_popescu;social effects. the maximal empowerment of rank imbecillity is where there's a lot of imbeciles with a little gas each. 1631403;1490230030;asciilifeform;tru. all of the nonsense of versailles did not destroy euro culture; the 20th c -- did. 1631404;1490230037;mircea_popescu;which is the point of anti-inequality : simply TAKING the empire's money away from "the public" into the hands of the lizards is an improvement in teraforming terms. 1631405;1490230066;mircea_popescu;which is why corruption is the right thing, and anyone "fighting corruption" should be raped and then gutted. 1631406;1490230075;mircea_popescu;collect taxes, let them be stolen by individuals. 1631407;1490230079;mircea_popescu;this is also how capitalism starts. 1631408;1490230083;asciilifeform;this was tested in late su/90s ru. afaik summed to 0. 1631409;1490230095;mircea_popescu;0 my foot. 1631410;1490230098;asciilifeform;orcs just pour golden toilet, and prop up western 'bank' chumpatron. 1631411;1490230110;mircea_popescu;hruschev had no idea how to get even with the us. check it out that putin humiliated obama. 1631412;1490230115;mircea_popescu;this is not 0, this is 1. THE 1. 1631413;1490230235;asciilifeform;in abstract it sounds entirely tru -- 'gotta get the money out of the hands of the beetle man.' but the actual history is somewhat puzzling -- 'beetle man' su had , e.g., steklov mathematical institute. '90s ru -- cocaine yachts, golden toilets. 1631414;1490230249;mircea_popescu;latter is better than former. 1631415;1490230263;mircea_popescu;you stubbornly measure only the height of the plank, then are surprised at volume differential. 1631416;1490230280;asciilifeform;say why i ought to be interested in anything other than the height of the plank. 1631417;1490230284;mircea_popescu;steklov math man was a 1km long, 1mm x 1mm individual. the cocaine yacht dude was 1m on all sides. 1631418;1490230292;mircea_popescu;the sqmm km long pile is not 1 cubic meter. 1631419;1490230301;asciilifeform;y'know one could build a mass of cockroach 10km on all sides. 1631420;1490230304;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform because irl volume matters. 1631421;1490230312;asciilifeform;it's what the americans -- did. 1631422;1490230328;mircea_popescu;hey, i know your entire life is dedicated to the proposition that geting 10% better at doing math is worth losing out 50% on salesmanship. 1631423;1490230331;mircea_popescu;this, however, is FALSE. 1631424;1490230344;asciilifeform;hey somebody gotta fall on the grenade, mircea_popescu . 1631425;1490230362;mircea_popescu;yes, "but mp, octopus also has tentacles" 1631426;1490230368;mircea_popescu;sure. problem is 70s ru had nothing but. 1631427;1490230413;asciilifeform;had (surprisingly to some folx) the first 'elbrus', quite competitive with cray1 1631428;1490230423;mircea_popescu;an' romania had felix 1631429;1490230432;mircea_popescu;but none of them had the people with enough fucking sense to get out of the rain. 1631430;1490230444;mircea_popescu;exactly like china today. disciplined followers and local optimizers. 1631431;1490230454;asciilifeform;tru. which is why dead empire, in 'egyptological' museum, and not on the map 1631432;1490230466;asciilifeform;opposite, really, of china. 1631433;1490230471;mircea_popescu;in a sense. 1631434;1490230510;*;asciilifeform brb, playing with pet 1631435;1490230612;mircea_popescu;imo us and su failed exactly the same way : once the message got put out that "don't worry, do your own thing, we got X covered", it died the next day 1631436;1490230624;mircea_popescu;dun matter "we got X covered" is "we're building socialism" or "they failed building socialism" 1631437;1490230629;mircea_popescu;once jwz is possible the place died. 1631438;1490231394;asciilifeform;to briefly revisit upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631333 these suffer charge leakage ( like ordinary flash rom ) ; actual otp -- theoretically good for centuries. 1631439;1490231394;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 00:27 asciilifeform: the supposed otp roms you can buy now, are actually eproms without the quartz window. 1631440;1490231436;asciilifeform;( and quite impervious to radiation ) 1631441;1490231489;asciilifeform;which, i suspect, is why they got lizarded away. 'they' don't want cheap radhard cpu, rom. 1631442;1490236892;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631203 << Hey, I just replaced coolant hoses on car. Destroyed old leaky plastic "quick connect" fittings with screwdriver since they embrittled to become "always connected". Replaced them with thermoplastic heat shrink clamps. 1631443;1490236892;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 23:21 asciilifeform: yea it's a pre-plastic auto. 1631444;1490236930;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: what's wrong with stainless steel clamps ? 1631445;1490236973;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Insufficiently novel. Try to preserve Saturn plasticar's plasticar theme. 1631446;1490237074;BingoBoingo;And the thermoplastic clamps have a very "clean" look to them. 1631447;1490237300;BingoBoingo;On the plus side the cooling system on this vehicle is just about the easiest possible thing to fill. Coolant reservoir is part of pressure system, heatercore is always open, thing is basically self burping. 1631448;1490237493;asciilifeform;!!up doppler 1631449;1490237494;deedbot;doppler voiced for 30 minutes. 1631450;1490237525;asciilifeform;!!rate doppler 1 new blood 1631451;1490237527;deedbot;Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wZpiD/?raw=true 1631452;1490237557;asciilifeform;!!v 74529CA504C1406823EE4D1EFC7752977E28CF0E4AC4017672D6C40DFAD90E4E 1631453;1490237557;deedbot;asciilifeform rated doppler 1 << new blood 1631454;1490237779;doppler;excellent 1631455;1490237850;asciilifeform;happy wotbirthday doppler . 1631456;1490237883;asciilifeform;now say a bit re who you are ? what brings you here ? 1631457;1490237948;doppler;sure thing 1631458;1490238010;doppler;I was drawn in by the computer-related discussions I have seen from some of the users here 1631459;1490238027;doppler;I guess most notably, asciilifeform 1631460;1490238040;asciilifeform;more specifically ? 1631461;1490238057;doppler;well this is going to sound dumb but 1631462;1490238058;asciilifeform;( maybe 90% of the material is in some sense 'computer related' lol ) 1631463;1490238069;doppler;I think I found your website through some ancient HN post 1631464;1490238103;doppler;I also have connections to some people who work on lisp machine restoration 1631465;1490238167;asciilifeform;do say more 1631466;1490238215;asciilifeform;( asciilifeform in particular is not esp. interested in 'lisp machine restoration' in the sense of 'old car restoration' hobbyists, but in reverse-engineering ) 1631467;1490238297;doppler;haha, well I think there are varying levels in the people I talk with 1631468;1490238310;doppler;I haven't done anything in that regard personally 1631469;1490238316;doppler;but I'm very interested in the topic 1631470;1490238330;asciilifeform;incidentally the real titan of 'bolixology' here is phf , rather than asciilifeform . 1631471;1490238342;doppler;phf knows at least one of the people i know 1631472;1490238424;doppler;I have enjoyed the content that I have read in the logs over some months and watched scroll by as I idled here the past few days 1631473;1490238441;doppler;so really I'm here to learn 1631474;1490238462;asciilifeform;we had a lively thread not long ago, where asciilifeform complains re primary activity of the top bolixologists seems to consist of sitting quietly, dog-in-the-manger-style, on piles of unpublished goodies 1631475;1490238511;asciilifeform;perhaps doppler will break the radio silence and post some docs 1631476;1490238575;doppler;what kinds are you looking for? 1631477;1490238590;asciilifeform;well, starting with the crown jewels , and down : 1631478;1490238596;doppler;haha 1631479;1490238601;asciilifeform;1) the NS source for the last 'ivory'. 1631480;1490238603;asciilifeform;2) NS itself. 1631481;1490238612;doppler;I wish. 1631482;1490238622;asciilifeform;3) the uncensored (compl. with low-levels) src for last (8.3 afaik) genera. 1631483;1490238662;doppler;I say I'm here to learn and you hit me with such a request :) 1631484;1490238673;asciilifeform;doppler: learn, learn. 1631485;1490238686;asciilifeform;the 'i know people...' is what prompted the req. 1631486;1490238694;doppler;ah. 1631487;1490238719;doppler;well I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask them 1631488;1490238734;doppler;what are you working on presently? 1631489;1490238747;asciilifeform;entirely unrelated things. 1631490;1490238760;doppler;oh? 1631491;1490238802;asciilifeform;most of it is described, in painful detail, in the logs. 1631492;1490238815;doppler;sounds good 1631493;1490238872;asciilifeform;re 'non-crown' jewels of bolixdom, one example of useful thing that does not publicly exist anywhere -- the mere pinout of the 'ivory'. 1631494;1490238930;asciilifeform;( it would be possible to build a behavioural test stand for it, if the pinout and timing characteristics were known. theoretically anyone with a 'macivory' and some spare time, could come up with these. ) 1631495;1490238975;doppler;hmm, i see 1631496;1490238993;asciilifeform;for some odd reason, not a single one of the folks who bought these relics, has seen it fit to do this work. 1631497;1490239002;asciilifeform;or even to take and post a high-resolution photo of the thing. 1631498;1490239038;doppler;it seems that many are caught up in the 'collection' aspect, maybe 1631499;1490239047;asciilifeform;it is almost as if they did not want their 3-10k $ investments to turn into the equivalent of old nintendo. 1631500;1490239064;asciilifeform;which any idiot can emulate. 1631501;1490239071;doppler;yeah 1631502;1490239077;asciilifeform;however that is precisely what i'm interested in. 1631503;1490239086;asciilifeform;making their investments -- worth ~$ 0. 1631504;1490239525;asciilifeform;the unfortunate bit is that we'll never get the ~people~ who built that thing, back. 1631505;1490239533;asciilifeform;i know for a fact that some of them -- are dead. 1631506;1490239543;asciilifeform;others -- long past the end of their intellectual working lives. 1631507;1490239552;asciilifeform;we could, however, get the ~artifact~ back. in theory. 1631508;1490239561;asciilifeform;( and -- possibly -- some of the insider working notes. ) 1631509;1490239595;doppler;that part is sad, yes 1631510;1490239616;asciilifeform;the 'collectors', in my experience, have been the farthest possible thing from a help -- quite a hindrance, in fact. 1631511;1490239634;doppler;how much of the remaining equipment do you think is still "undiscovered"? 1631512;1490239646;doppler;ie. owned by people or parties that do not know the value of it 1631513;1490239652;asciilifeform;the equipment is not the issue, it is all available, for a price 1631514;1490239665;asciilifeform;the sources/schematics/etc. are the issue. 1631515;1490239681;doppler;might there be documentation along with the machines? 1631516;1490239694;asciilifeform;i have 100% of the published documentation here. 1631517;1490239700;asciilifeform;it fill a book case. 1631518;1490239702;asciilifeform;*fills 1631519;1490239709;asciilifeform;( most of it is also on www ) 1631520;1490239723;doppler;I see. 1631521;1490239725;asciilifeform;the published documentation is of 0 use in cloning the machine. 1631522;1490239731;asciilifeform;( quite deliberately ) 1631523;1490239772;asciilifeform;symbolics -- also quite deliberately -- never even printed an honest instruction set reference, for any of the machines. 1631524;1490239842;doppler;I do see why that would be to their advantage 1631525;1490239883;asciilifeform;it wasn't an outrageous / illogical / atrocious thing to do. smbx was a fabless chip maker which competed directly with, among others, TI ('explorer' lispm) 1631526;1490239917;doppler;right. 1631527;1490240003;asciilifeform;the result, however, is that the ~singularly~ most interesting comp from 1980s -- is ~entirely lost . 1631528;1490240370;asciilifeform;the old iron, doppler , is not -- contrary to the delusions of 'collectors' -- interesting per se. the ~software~ was not even interesting per se -- it was a tall pile of stinking mit hacks. the CONCEPTS, however, as described in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 , WERE interesting. 1631529;1490240387;asciilifeform;and ergo the software, to the extent it embodied these concepts -- which was quite large -- is interesting; 1631530;1490240401;asciilifeform;and the iron -- is also of interest, in so far as it made the soft -- possible. 1631531;1490242075;doppler;that's a very respectable way to think about it 1631532;1490242119;doppler;that post was among the first I read 1631533;1490242128;doppler;and it was eye-opening 1631534;1490242448;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/R5bkM/?raw=true 1631535;1490242448;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1631536;1490242514;shinohai;Their loss, I'm sorry for it. 1631537;1490242739;shinohai;In other lulz, the "esteemed Asst. Prof. Emin Sirer" on why the Bitcoin Unlimited bugs of late are no big deal: https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/844331767175794689 1631538;1490243230;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this theory of "interesting concepts" of a tribe dead on its own power is the height of unpersuasiveness. 1631539;1490243334;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1630992 << was elaine ou, a phd cum writer whom i invited over (via pgpgram!) after reading http://elaineou.com/2017/03/17/the-bitcoin-backlog/ recently. definitely seems brighter than average. 1631540;1490243334;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 20:47 ben_vulpes: !!up eo 1631541;1490243448;pete_dushenski;make that phd student, not phd. electrical engineering at stanford. 1631542;1490243460;mircea_popescu;shinohai who the fuck esteems a two bit instructor in an obscure university that's been circling bitcoin for years and has as of yet produced nothing besides tweets and dandruff ? 1631543;1490243492;shinohai;Hence the quotes. 1631544;1490243502;mircea_popescu;myeah 1631545;1490243533;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is free to be as 'unpersuaded' as he wants. fact: his machine -- can overrun an array; bolix -- could not; his box -- crashes, cannot be examined or uncrashed (yes) -- bolix -- could; and various other aspects, well covered in teh logz. 1631546;1490243588;mircea_popescu;so then it's not the concepts that were interesting but the implementation ? 1631547;1490243604;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski so why so quiet ? 1631548;1490243647;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: arguably, in the sense where sikorsky's chopper is interesting, while davinci's -- much less . 1631549;1490243709;mircea_popescu;do you wish to know how did some old farts manage to stick it into the missus, because "the concept" of getting it up is interesting in the sense of well, not actually, you have the concept, it just, what exactly ? yours dun work ? 1631550;1490243779;mircea_popescu;there's just about nothing interesting you could find by opening hood of ancient car, as an engine designer today. not one trhing. most of them are collected, and are revered by a so-minded public, and aren't documented worth didly squat. i dun think this sunday hobby item is different from that. 1631551;1490243828;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: girl (rather cute, i might add) said she just wants to lurk to start. read logs etc. i've pointed her towards registering her key with deedbot and said she can ask q's via pm or pgpgram. we'll see what comes of the endeavour i guess. 1631552;1490243840;mircea_popescu;what am i going to learn blowing a million dollars worth of highly energetic photons on the 55 chevy engine block ? how to cut metal with analog calipers ? 1631553;1490243848;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the basic tech of internal combustion -- was not lost. 1631554;1490243852;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski works. 1631555;1490243860;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so what was lost here, lisp ? 1631556;1490243877;asciilifeform;on the other hand, there is not ONE sane cpu on the market. the kind with enforced type tags and bounds. 1631557;1490243887;asciilifeform;not since late '80s. 1631558;1490243902;asciilifeform;that -- was lost. 1631559;1490243903;mircea_popescu;there isn't a single engine on the market, the kind with shaft driven aspiration and carbureted intake. so what. 1631560;1490243924;asciilifeform;no engines, period. to run with this analogy. only horse. 1631561;1490243929;mircea_popescu;heck, it';s not even legal to try and sell or drive one. 1631562;1490243955;mircea_popescu;i see you claiming it, it's just not sticking. evidently digital accumulators exist. no horse. 1631563;1490243991;asciilifeform;piece of shit that sees no types, no bounded arrays, etc. but only soup -- yes, exists. and the 'seekoority' field, wih it. 1631564;1490244004;asciilifeform;both could go away. 1631565;1490244016;mircea_popescu;this does not improve the validity of your horse theory. 1631566;1490244031;mircea_popescu;yes, catalytic convertors could go away. they don't work with carburetors. so ? 1631567;1490244049;asciilifeform;this equivalence does not exist here. 1631568;1490244102;mircea_popescu;i tell you i dun see it. 1631569;1490244125;asciilifeform;cpu that obeys type constraints is quite unlike the familiar idiot kind. in exactly same way that trains equipped with westinghouse's air brake, are unlike the earlier ones where brake man ran from car to car pulling ropes. 1631570;1490244147;mircea_popescu;seems a minor improvement. 1631571;1490244154;mircea_popescu;they're sure still trains. 1631572;1490244165;asciilifeform;nope. one is a coffin in wheels. 1631573;1490244170;asciilifeform;other -- train. 1631574;1490244175;asciilifeform;*on 1631575;1490244176;mircea_popescu;look, the label game only works if you can enforce it. and you can't. 1631576;1490244193;mircea_popescu;so, the concept of moving signalling from rigid to fluid medium. great idea. minor point. 1631577;1490244229;asciilifeform;well i can't very well by force of magic will, teleport mircea_popescu into a pre-airbrake train so he can feel he diff on own skin. 1631578;1490244234;asciilifeform;so in that sense no. 1631579;1490244270;mircea_popescu;it's just a different category of special pleading. even if you get me to fuck liz taylor tonight, and even if i personally fucking love it and propose marriage, i still won't agree she's structurally different from womanhood. 1631580;1490244278;mircea_popescu;skin or no skin, things are what they are. 1631581;1490244302;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu is in the position of the greeks who pissed on heron's turbine. 1631582;1490244320;mircea_popescu;some guy came up with the bright idea of ading a fine copper mesh to miner lamps so they dont' start fires anymore, about the same time. it didn't fucking change mining from milk to ambrosia. 1631583;1490244322;asciilifeform;'same as slave, but clunky, snoar' 1631584;1490244327;mircea_popescu;this not so. 1631585;1490244350;mircea_popescu;mircea_popescu is in the position where he spent many years applying serious, scientific methods to the problem of knowledge classification. 1631586;1490244361;mircea_popescu;this gives him an edge over ad hoc feelings, it's only feelings approach. 1631587;1490244393;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631221 << define 'possible'. >x connections ? doesn't crash ? because i've been running trb on vps since it came out and have no particular complaints other than semi-regular st9 errors. 1631588;1490244393;a111;Logged on 2017-03-22 23:34 mircea_popescu: tbh i have nfi how you could run trb in a vps. i don't think it's possible, not really. would be certainly quite the medal of merit on any software that can handle such. 1631589;1490244409;asciilifeform;decade of archaeological work == 'only feelings' nao? lol 1631590;1490244414;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski holy shit it didn't freeze ?! 1631591;1490244428;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform your proposed cut of the gordian knot was "let mp feel what i feel!!11" 1631592;1490244429;pete_dushenski;nuhuh 1631593;1490244437;mircea_popescu;what powers the vps ? 1631594;1490244482;pete_dushenski;'4 E5v3 CPU Cores' 1631595;1490244492;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is difficult to compress decade of archaeology into 1 persuasive paragraph. esp. to persuade a fella who in his panglossism has determined not to be persuadable. 1631596;1490244514;asciilifeform;'we live in the best of computings, bolix died on own power' etc 1631597;1490244520;mircea_popescu;i've determined no such thing. i jus' said, i dunsee it. 1631598;1490244527;mircea_popescu;im not claiming it's not there or anything. 1631599;1490244565;mircea_popescu;this aside, what power did bolix die on ? 1631600;1490244601;asciilifeform;of having been a miniature steklov institute, in turn part of a miniature su, reagan's bezzle. 1631601;1490244616;asciilifeform;'nothing kills like bad money' or how it went. 1631602;1490244616;mircea_popescu;so it never was economically relevant ? 1631603;1490244617;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: also 4gb ram and 1tb raid that processes tx way the hell faster than dulap on mech hdd 1631604;1490244641;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not apart from the amex fraud sensor thing, afaik. 1631605;1490244641;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski that dun sound like a vps. sounds like a proc spec ? 1631606;1490244658;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform then what the fuck are we talking about ? airbrake made bank. 1631607;1490244692;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: moar analogous to ac current. which very nearly went to same place as symbolics. 1631608;1490244702;asciilifeform;could have very easily not made-bank. 1631609;1490244709;mircea_popescu;how ?! 1631610;1490244710;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: that's a point eh. 1631611;1490244718;asciilifeform;we had entire thread! 1631612;1490244744;mircea_popescu;what, edison tried to blackball it and failed. counterfactuals make for poor support. 1631613;1490244805;asciilifeform;microshit is what a successful edisoning looks like. 1631614;1490244835;mircea_popescu;i dunno bout that. maybe. 1631615;1490244981;asciilifeform;( see also: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-29#1215563 , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-02#698992 , possibly elsewhere. ) 1631616;1490244981;a111;Logged on 2015-07-29 00:35 asciilifeform: at any rate, if you go and read edison's writings, you get a very similar flavour of 'idiot savant / malicious imbecile' as from bill gates 1631617;1490244981;a111;Logged on 2014-06-02 18:05 asciilifeform: (e.g. power station on every street corner, wall wiring as thick as your arm, etc) 1631618;1490245010;mircea_popescu;i never got much more from gates than from any other zigglar. 1631619;1490245026;mircea_popescu;"gotta be successful" 1980isms and that's about it. 1631620;1490245034;mircea_popescu;a very sad generation. 1631621;1490245060;asciilifeform;the gates in the 'letter to hobbyists', not the senile husk, no 1631622;1490245069;mircea_popescu;sure. 1631623;1490245212;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631587 << wait pete_dushenski , what error 1631624;1490245212;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 04:46 pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631221 << define 'possible'. >x connections ? doesn't crash ? because i've been running trb on vps since it came out and have no particular complaints other than semi-regular st9 errors. 1631625;1490245216;asciilifeform;? 1631626;1490245236;pete_dushenski;EXCEPTION: St9bad_alloc \nstd::bad_alloc \nbitcoin in ProcessMessage() \n 1631627;1490245299;asciilifeform;looks like a nonfatal oom 1631628;1490245312;pete_dushenski;it's definitely nonfatal 1631629;1490245531;pete_dushenski;mircea_popescu: 'Every service is in a dedicated VM container' << i'm not clear on difference between vm and vps, but i have at least one trb box on vm it seems. 1631630;1490245564;pete_dushenski;quote obv from service provider 1631631;1490245582;mircea_popescu;mm 1631632;1490245593;pete_dushenski;also, 'We make use of KVM/QEMU technology' 1631633;1490245603;mircea_popescu;impressive 1631634;1490245632;pete_dushenski;so about that medal... 1631635;1490246136;mircea_popescu;yeah, pretty impressive really. 1631636;1490246186;asciilifeform;vm host is not unlike house of ancient flats with 1 hot water tank for 10 1631637;1490246210;asciilifeform;if 1 washes -- always enough water, no issues 1631638;1490246223;asciilifeform;if 5 -- problem. 1631639;1490246586;mircea_popescu;i would expect any host trying to make money with vm to have kicked him off 1631640;1490247243;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/fmGhw << i don't even know where to begin with this 'day in the life of 28yo credit suisse banker'. is bi that fucking cocksure that they think their readers will swallow pictostory about nice kid who plays squash and eats in cafeteria all day ? as if this kid isn't pushing dodgy shit onto worthless clients he and his bank don't give a shit about all because his higher-ups have some bad 1631641;1490247245;pete_dushenski;paper to unload. kid's overpaid salesman, not 'relationship manager' like some walmart customer service desktard. wtf. 1631642;1490247311;mircea_popescu;and the easiest sale of them all 1631643;1490247319;mircea_popescu;is convincing some 28yo kid he's not some 28yo kid. 1631644;1490247346;mircea_popescu;always easier when the mark wants to believe. 1631645;1490247356;pete_dushenski;honorifics will do that in a heartbeat. aha. 1631646;1490247416;pete_dushenski;not unlike yours truly at similar age. 'look mom ima a republican lord!' lol 1631647;1490247427;mircea_popescu;lol 1631648;1490247491;pete_dushenski;on that high note, i'll call it an eve. bon soir! 1631649;1490247499;mircea_popescu;nn 1631650;1490261806;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/vermont-residents-on-state-run-job-board-hacked/ << Qntra - Vermont Residents On State Run Job Board Hacked 1631651;1490278609;mircea_popescu;heh 1631652;1490278671;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://archive.is/ADnD6 >> 'Nunes set off the firestorm with a news conference earlier in the day in which he described the surveillance of Trump aides through what’s called “incidental collection,” something he noted was routine and legal.' 1631653;1490278678;asciilifeform;didjaknow. ACCIDENT!1111 1631654;1490278681;mircea_popescu;lol. 1631655;1490278692;mircea_popescu;i have no fucking idea what sort of frogbrains havwe to be in these brainboxes. 1631656;1490278716;mircea_popescu;dude is fucking frying them, and they're going through the predictable motions. "oh, trump will fry us. lol" "oh, trump is just saying so" "oh, he accidentally beat us up but he loves us" 1631657;1490278734;mircea_popescu;bitch... grow up. nobody fucking wants you. there's no space left for you. 1631658;1490278758;mircea_popescu;"oh no, that's just not poissible, who wouldn't want an obnoxious old woman." guess. 1631659;1490278994;mircea_popescu;gotta love the "routine" device of the SOPS also. "john smith, why did you wait in a black van behind the highschool for the cheerleaders to come out, then chased one down, stripped her naked, tied her and took her to your van ?" "oh, i ALWAYS DO THIS!" 1631660;1490279021;mircea_popescu;vs "usg agency, why did you eavesdrop on trump and then lie about it and then lie about other things ?" "oh, WE ALWAYS DO THAT" 1631661;1490279025;mircea_popescu;bitch... this isn't an excuse. 1631662;1490279044;asciilifeform;hey if lavrentiy pavlovich beria does routinely... 1631663;1490279052;mircea_popescu;heh 1631664;1490279062;mircea_popescu;at least send them some fucking flowers. 1631665;1490279101;mircea_popescu;"roses are sweet, bruises are blue, i had a great time but not as great as your asshole is now." 1631666;1490279111;asciilifeform;pretty sure obummer sent him flowers. (or was it a happy greeting card ? luvvletter?) on nomoarobummer-day 1631667;1490279175;mircea_popescu;oh incidentally, for the socialists in attendance : watch "quiz show". it's an utter piece of crap i couldn't comprehend why anyone bothered making until we got to the scene where the white priviledge guy apologizes for existing. 1631668;1490279189;mircea_popescu;enjoy teh tv fiction, i say, tis as close as you're fucking getting. 1631669;1490280068;mod6;mornin' 1631670;1490280112;mod6;This box with 2 E5650's and 64Gb RAM showed up yesterday. now, just need some drives... 1631671;1490280579;mircea_popescu;sweet. 1631672;1490280611;mod6;ya, kinda neat. looking forward to getting this fired up. 1631673;1490280734;shinohai;I'm jelly mod6 but gg 1631674;1490280796;mod6;fwiw it was only like $375 1631675;1490280809;mircea_popescu;yeah, since bolix went the fuck away computing's not expensive at all 1631676;1490280825;*;mircea_popescu still remembers making the very HARD fucking decision of not dropping 2k of 1990 dollars on a 15 inch monitor. 1631677;1490280882;mod6;oh yeah, back in those days computer-anything was $$$. Especially CRTs. 1631678;1490280888;mircea_popescu;"but mp, they were built to last. think, you could still have it!!" yeah. i could. and it'd be worth 25k in today's dollars, and it'd still be a 15 inch mcga or w/e the fuck it was 1631679;1490281019;shinohai;Hey not bad at all 1631680;1490281143;asciilifeform;lulzily trinitron is still $$$ 1631681;1490281147;asciilifeform;esp if you want a fresh one 1631682;1490281161;mircea_popescu;well i wasn't gonna pick THAT example :D 1631683;1490281172;shinohai;I want a trinquetron 1631684;1490281174;mircea_popescu;also trinitron more like 2000s. the 90s were atrocious, all that green. 1631685;1490281210;mircea_popescu;in retrospect, i can't believe my eyes lived through it. 1631686;1490281226;mircea_popescu;micro-mp used to spend so much time staring down early displays o brother. 1631687;1490281309;asciilifeform;there's a biological immunity, i suspect 1631688;1490281320;mircea_popescu;yeah, young men have it too easy. 1631689;1490281324;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's elder brother, for instance, spent ~= time in front of bad displays -- perfect vision to this day 1631690;1490281328;asciilifeform;asciilifeform -- not 1631691;1490281334;mircea_popescu;ah like that ? mebbe. 1631692;1490281352;mircea_popescu;this is good news then, blindness sucks. 1631693;1490281419;asciilifeform;speaking of demise of bolix, one of the oddities behind the princely (like entire bulldozer!111) cost of the machines, was the crt, at the time there was NO mass manufacture of high-res (1152x864 iirc) crt, anywhere on planet3; they had'em custom-blown. 1631694;1490281436;mircea_popescu;i know. kinda why i said. 1631695;1490281447;mircea_popescu;seems to me a lot of it is a particular sort of hype. 1631696;1490281449;asciilifeform;(for most of the life of the product, they were 1bit b&w, for the elementary reason that no one would buy $mil of video ram) 1631697;1490281473;asciilifeform;incidentally the cost was quite typical of minis. 1631698;1490281480;asciilifeform;simply, the other minis had by then vanished. 1631699;1490281488;mircea_popescu;there's that expression that there's two kinds of fools in this world, the kind that says this is old, and therefore good ; and the kind that says this is new, and therefore better. just because we're awash in type 2 idiocy from the ipaditiots and mactards dun mean the type 1 went away. 1631700;1490281502;mircea_popescu;wtf do i want a handblown crt for! and how much of it was ~the equivalent ? 1631701;1490281515;asciilifeform;they weren't handblown! 1631702;1490281531;asciilifeform;but that no one else was even contemplating highres graphics in single user workstation. 1631703;1490281531;mircea_popescu;i'm making a broader point using a rhetorical device. 1631704;1490281545;asciilifeform;'pioneer -- arrow in his back', said the 19th c americans. 1631705;1490281567;mircea_popescu;there is also that. 1631706;1490281689;mircea_popescu;let me put it this way to you asciilifeform : 1631707;1490281757;mircea_popescu;if the only way to get a kock gpgtron was to dig one out of the one clothing store in utah that accidentally got all the 18 evcer produced and sells one now and again when they stumble on the box in the basement -- would your idea of the gpgtron be closer or further from your current, and correct, idea of it ? which, unless i lost track, goes along the rails of "nothing in there is salvageable ; full rewrite" ? 1631708;1490281824;asciilifeform;i did carefully point out that , e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631528 1631709;1490281824;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 03:39 asciilifeform: the old iron, doppler , is not -- contrary to the delusions of 'collectors' -- interesting per se. the ~software~ was not even interesting per se -- it was a tall pile of stinking mit hacks. the CONCEPTS, however, as described in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 , WERE interesting. 1631710;1490281838;mircea_popescu;yes but i suspect you don't actually know what the word "concept" means. 1631711;1490281844;asciilifeform;the bolix -- also needs full rewrite. 99+% of what was in it, was to work around the frightening limitations of the tech of the period. 1631712;1490281954;asciilifeform;the concepts in question reduce to very basic sanity, which the transistor-impoverished people of the '70s-'80s simply could not afford : cpu that understands context ('is this word part of a bignum? where does the array end?'), programs that hold enough info to restart/repair, and various other. 1631713;1490281973;asciilifeform;today -- can afford them, your cpu's tlb cache alone is 50x the size of the bolix total transistor count. 1631714;1490281989;mircea_popescu;"concept" is not shorthand for "metaconsideration" ; concept denotes the root node of a knowledge tree. and you manifestly DO have the involved concepts, because casual remarks like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631556 1631715;1490281989;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 04:37 asciilifeform: on the other hand, there is not ONE sane cpu on the market. the kind with enforced type tags and bounds. 1631716;1490281996;asciilifeform;but the expectation -- has vanished. konsoomer expects, dare say enjoys, crashes, 0days. 1631717;1490282033;mircea_popescu;this being the substance of the whoile discussion since yest : you claimed to want something you showed you have ; i deduced the confusion must be resolved. "concepts" in the sense of "metaconsiderations" aren't interesting ; concepts in the sense of concepts you already have. 1631718;1490282059;asciilifeform;it'd depend on what means 'have'. 1631719;1490282065;asciilifeform;yes, inside my head -- i have. 1631720;1490282066;mircea_popescu;you just said it! have, have. 1631721;1490282069;mircea_popescu;well yes. 1631722;1490282088;asciilifeform;on my desk, or in a form that'd convince folx who grew up in cmachine monkeystan -- don't have. 1631723;1490282105;mircea_popescu;but this is a red herring, because your stated aim with the archeology is to populate your head not your desk 1631724;1490282117;mircea_popescu;it's not like you aim to take the found machines to the kinko's and copy them into more exemplars. 1631725;1490282125;asciilifeform;i dare say i succeeded, in 'populating head' 1631726;1490282129;mircea_popescu;so then. 1631727;1490282222;mircea_popescu;and re "folks", the elephant of sadness in the field everyone's been dancing around since forever is that none of the buyers buy for anything like a sane puyrpose. much like the 55 firebird buyer who isn't buying it in 2015 to make teenie boppers suck his cock in it ; but to drive it by city dumps and industrial zones which used to be a town and stroke his memories. 1631728;1490282240;mircea_popescu;and this in the best case, a good half simply buy them to deny it to memory strokers in the hope of geting more $$$ later. 1631729;1490282273;asciilifeform;ain't this exactly what i said re the bolix collectors ? 1631730;1490282288;mircea_popescu;i guess it is. you were just uncharacteristically nice about it. 1631731;1490282642;asciilifeform;lol 1631732;1490282647;mircea_popescu;it happens! lol 1631733;1490285004;shinohai;"DoubleAgent exploits a 15 years old undocumented legitimate feature of Windows and therefore cannot be patched." https://github.com/Cybellum/DoubleAgent 1631734;1490285013;mircea_popescu;ahahaha 1631735;1490285126;shinohai;What was that you said yesterday about Windows being "Perfectly safe" now, Mr Sirer ? 1631736;1490285152;mircea_popescu;which one is sirer ? 1631737;1490285163;asciilifeform;'Cybellum Is The First Deterministic Zero-Day Prevention Platform™ That Eliminates Unknown Threats With First-Step Threat Protection™' << lel 1631738;1490285171;shinohai;The Prof that really isn't a Prof @ cornell 1631739;1490285178;mircea_popescu;a lol. whatevs. 1631740;1490285210;*;asciilifeform reading the vendor's www, the 'magical tech' seems to resolve to... stack cookies 1631741;1490285225;mircea_popescu;genius 1631742;1490285239;mircea_popescu;i wish i came up with that. could do like... logins over http and shit! 1631743;1490285307;asciilifeform;( for noobs -- 'stack cookie' is the -- nowadays common, at least in gccland -- practice of putting a random turd on the end of a stack that overflows, and later testing if it is still there before popping a return addr ) 1631744;1490285328;mircea_popescu;pretty much a cookie. 1631745;1490285335;asciilifeform;it goes under different names 1631746;1490285341;shinohai;Still won't actually prevent said buffer overflow 1631747;1490285342;asciilifeform;microshit even has own. 1631748;1490285346;asciilifeform;shinohai: noshit.jpg 1631749;1490285350;mircea_popescu;shinohai nor would it prevent malware feeding you it. 1631750;1490285353;mircea_popescu;just like www cookies. 1631751;1490285728;asciilifeform;in other recent lulz , https://archive.is/xXW9T >> '...race condition in the n_hdlc Linux kernel driver (drivers/tty/n_hdlc.c). It can be exploited to gain a local privilege escalation. ... This driver provides HDLC serial line discipline and comes as a kernel module in many Linux distributions, which have CONFIG_N_HDLC=m in the kernel config. ...introduced on 22 June 2009' 1631752;1490285766;asciilifeform;best of all, (followup post), 1631753;1490285769;asciilifeform;'Exploiting the flaw in the vulnerable module n_hdlc does not require Microgate or SyncLink hardware. The module is automatically loaded if an unprivileged user opens a pseudoterminal and calls TIOCSETD ioctl for it setting N_HDLC line discipline.' 1631754;1490285777;asciilifeform;didjaknow. 1631755;1490285793;mircea_popescu;heh 1631756;1490285858;*;trinque wonders who leaves module loading on 1631757;1490285870;trinque;in the kernel config 1631758;1490285881;asciilifeform;trinque: folx who work on modules ? 1631759;1490285881;trinque;or builds drivers he doesn't use, even 1631760;1490285891;trinque;sure, use it for dev I guess 1631761;1490285907;asciilifeform;folx who build must-boot-on-multiple-boxes images ? 1631762;1490285914;asciilifeform;('livecd' etc) 1631763;1490285938;mircea_popescu;pestilentially common, kernel with 5k modules and 100k drivers 1631764;1490285961;trinque;asciilifeform: that's living in sin and you know it 1631765;1490285966;asciilifeform;it's what you get unless you sit for two weeks with pair of snippycutters. 1631766;1490285981;asciilifeform;and at the end you get a thing that stops booting when you swap raid cards etc. 1631767;1490286042;trinque;argument being convenience? 1631768;1490286090;asciilifeform;'convenience' is not the word. how does trinque propose to make a 'livecd' (installer, say) that uses no modules. 1631769;1490286210;trinque;isn't my doing that there is no tool to produce a kernel driver config other than booting EVERYTHING THAT EVER WAS 1631770;1490286255;asciilifeform;trinque: i wonder if there is a means of making modules loadable ONCE per boot 1631771;1490286267;asciilifeform;( i have genuinely nfi, q for everyone tuned in ) 1631772;1490286273;trinque;if there were, you'd boot a minimal environment that can produce a kernel config, then you'd go build your kernel, then bake that into your very own ISO 1631773;1490286304;asciilifeform;this you can already do 1631774;1490286307;trinque;sure. 1631775;1490286313;trinque;it is what I said after all 1631776;1490286344;asciilifeform;what i'd like is : 1) 'hardware not present? MODULE DOESN'T LOAD. EVER' 2) modules can be loaded, but strictly 1ce per boot. 1631777;1490286374;trinque;aha, I'd at least like "look, network driver is the last thing you may ever load" 1631778;1490286389;trinque;and that's still not better than "you only have the code available for what you intend to do" 1631779;1490286390;mircea_popescu;we're headed for the kernel for the kernel aren't we 1631780;1490286396;asciilifeform;still doesn't convert the public toilet that is unix/x86 into something else. but would shrink the audit surface considerably. 1631781;1490286398;mircea_popescu;THE FUCKING REASON THE KERNEL EVEN EXISTS!!1 1631782;1490286429;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: this already happened in heathendom, long ago, was called 'microkernel' heresy 1631783;1490286434;mircea_popescu;sigh. 1631784;1490286436;trinque;no not that. 1631785;1490286438;asciilifeform;crapple, iirc, uses. 1631786;1490286441;asciilifeform;it is stupid. 1631787;1490286460;asciilifeform;( because pretends to an isolation that is physically impossible on the iron ) 1631788;1490286468;trinque;just a minimal linux kernel that boots, can interrogate hardware IDs and fart out a .config 1631789;1490286483;asciilifeform;trinque: and support gcc..? 1631790;1490286487;trinque;then you go build only the drivers you need somewhere else and come back 1631791;1490286504;trinque;you keep wanting to drag me to a point that's easily knocked down; it wont happen 1631792;1490286506;trinque;:p 1631793;1490286514;asciilifeform;trinque: where's 'somewhere else' ? 1631794;1490286545;asciilifeform;trinque: i'm not even that far along, currently trying to determine what your idea ~was~ 1631795;1490286548;trinque;k, there is a check at the beginning of every module which involves "is this hardware present" for drivers 1631796;1490286573;asciilifeform;^ in actual practice, very much not-every, lol 1631797;1490286573;trinque;that has no business being there and not further upstack producing the .config you need 1631798;1490286582;trinque;well, other sins 1631799;1490286598;trinque;sanity would dictate you boot something which can run all those checks ~and not the fucking driver code too~ 1631800;1490286622;trinque;and then you go build all the drivers elsewhere and come back 1631801;1490286649;asciilifeform;trinque ever work on driver for linux ? 1631802;1490286652;trinque;boot minimal kernel -> run driver introspectatron -> get .config -> build kernel -> bake ISO 1631803;1490286667;mircea_popescu;so basically, we make a usb diagnoser, you stuff it into mystery box, it spits out the equivalent of makefiles for it, you go to hot box, create image, plop it into mystery box and it boots ? 1631804;1490286667;trinque;I'm not about to defend whatever gay decisions linus allowed 1631805;1490286672;asciilifeform;the sad thing re the iron , is that 'determine if installed, and if so, where on the bus' is often 80% of the driver ! 1631806;1490286703;trinque;oh jeez 1631807;1490286713;asciilifeform;the typical iron, is retarded far, far beyond the belief of anyone who is innocent of subj 1631808;1490286714;mircea_popescu;not 80, but a solid 40% sure. 1631809;1490286716;asciilifeform;duntakemywordforit. 1631810;1490286783;asciilifeform;often there are subsystems, i'll give concrete example: 1631811;1490286824;asciilifeform;GB nics have 2 parts, that are electrically independent and often made by separate firms, the 'mac' and 'phy' (the latter is what actually drives the transformer, the former -- what you/os think of as 'the nic') 1631812;1490286831;asciilifeform;they have their own, internal bus, that connects'em 1631813;1490286840;asciilifeform;to initialize the phy, you gotta first find and init the mac... 1631814;1490286850;asciilifeform;massive shit show, and it is only ONE example. 1631815;1490286862;trinque;and phy doesn't even appear to exist without mac init? 1631816;1490286864;trinque;pretty sad 1631817;1490286869;asciilifeform;trinque: correct 1631818;1490286893;asciilifeform;or, more pedestrian example, 1631819;1490286923;asciilifeform;on many (most?) extant boxes, the thermometers sit on a 'sm' bus (2-3 wire thing, there are several variants) which in turn sits on pci bus 1631820;1490286941;asciilifeform;so you gotta walk the buses, in turn, before it becomes even meaningful to attempt to speak to the thermometers. 1631821;1490286956;asciilifeform;(and this is a 'clean' example, that mostly ~works!) 1631822;1490286984;asciilifeform;the point, sadly, is that the world of 1993, where the machine consists of gadgets you can converse with independently, is gone 1631823;1490287002;mircea_popescu;teh craptree 1631824;1490287016;mircea_popescu;"what happened to computing ?" "it was captured by the craptree" 1631825;1490287020;asciilifeform;and good chunk of the craptree , in linuxland and winblowzstan both, consists of this crapolade 1631826;1490287106;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's certainly a LOT less meaningful to speak of some supposed linux-windows distinction than it was in 1997. this is what bumbling imbeciles a la ermin gun sirer aim to communicate, in their bovine fashjion, when they say "windows is perfectly safe" : not that windows is anything but the crap it always was ; but that they feel confident they've managed to smear it on everything so bereft of alternative one "sho 1631827;1490287107;mircea_popescu;uldn't" dare piss on their faces. 1631828;1490287116;trinque;I certainly concede the point that there's no sane way the kernel build process could go other than "better pack in everything" and then snip. 1631829;1490287143;mircea_popescu;trinque the more important point he's making is that sanitization of software'd best start with motherboard redesign 1631830;1490287143;asciilifeform;trinque: fabrice bellard had an interesting experiment, where he stuffed tinycc into kernel, and had it self-build on boot 1631831;1490287148;asciilifeform;trinque: may be worth looking into 1631832;1490287156;mircea_popescu;he usually misstates this as hav ing to do with cpu foundries etc, which it pointedly does not. 1631833;1490287163;asciilifeform;but i'd prefer to help x86 die, not to build elaborate new life support for it. 1631834;1490287168;mircea_popescu;you ~could~ rearrange extant chips in an infinitely saner fashion for very little cost. 1631835;1490287173;trinque;mircea_popescu: aha, and in my head there was this ACPI table you could ask the BIOS for or w/e 1631836;1490287182;mircea_popescu;still present of course, not hobbist 1k dollar cost. but nothing compared to the 1trn foundry runs you 1631837;1490287184;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nope. the existing chips all rely on the various craptree buses. 1631838;1490287207;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform a chip is a chip is a chip. it'll do whatever the fuck. 1631839;1490287211;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: nope. 1631840;1490287220;asciilifeform;it wants the bus, or no pasaran. i know, sad. 1631841;1490287222;mircea_popescu;yes yes. still not need a foundry for this. 1631842;1490287254;asciilifeform;a documented ~homogeneous~ fpga, would suffice. 1631843;1490287266;asciilifeform;(still doesn't exist, and is actually the ~only reason i even said 'need foundry') 1631844;1490287287;mircea_popescu;there's many possible approaches to this ford we're not at yet. 1631845;1490287310;asciilifeform;having banged my head against subj for decade+ now, i'd be interested in hearing of one i haven't yet thought of. 1631846;1490287328;mircea_popescu;bang your head moar productively, you. 1631847;1490287375;asciilifeform;we might have had this thread, but one example of unfixable yet ubiquitous braindamage in iron: usb. 1631848;1490287382;asciilifeform;the spec is literally bookcase-length; 1631849;1490287390;asciilifeform;and NO extant iron implements it honestly. 1631850;1490287393;asciilifeform;or ever will. 1631851;1490287402;asciilifeform;because the thing resembles winblowz api, contradictions and all. 1631852;1490287412;asciilifeform;cancerous bureaucracy. 1631853;1490287536;asciilifeform;the original idea seemed appealing -- to make devices self-describing and conformant to standardized profiles -- 'keyboard', 'block disk', etc 1631854;1490287537;mircea_popescu;eh, just use rs lol 1631855;1490287597;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: laugh, but it's the ONE interface that's ~actually~ standard 1631856;1490287597;mircea_popescu;anyway, usb suffers immensely from the utf effect. "only plug with power in it, everyone gotta be there!11" 1631857;1490287603;asciilifeform;on all comps, american, soviet, martian. 1631858;1490287603;mircea_popescu;it's how los angeles went to shit, and new york before it. 1631859;1490287607;mircea_popescu;"gotta be there" 1631860;1490287613;asciilifeform;(which is why it is in FUCKGOATS) 1631861;1490287617;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i was not laughing at all. dead serious. 1631862;1490287642;mircea_popescu;computer-i can has rs for slow or ethernet for fast, and thassit. 1631863;1490287644;asciilifeform;tops out at 1MBit tho (and that's pushing it, needs short wire.) 1631864;1490287646;mircea_popescu;jobs style. 1631865;1490287718;mircea_popescu;keep things simple. i'd rather see a bank of eight upt and another bank of 64 rs holes on the machine than the current bs. 1631866;1490287728;mircea_popescu;and yes, put the monitor through the eth card too. bs special bus. 1631867;1490287737;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: like bolix!111 1631868;1490287738;mircea_popescu;monitor-on-lan. 1631869;1490287745;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i told you we have the concepts. 1631870;1490287779;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631306 << see also. 1631871;1490287779;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 00:12 asciilifeform: if i ever make the fpgaized thing, it sure as fuck won't bother trying to drive an lcd or eat keyboard, wtf, just speak x11. 1631872;1490287786;mircea_popescu;aha 1631873;1490287800;mircea_popescu;there's no disagreement here. 1631874;1490287816;asciilifeform;you only really need that 1 hole. 1631875;1490287822;asciilifeform;even rs232 can hang off ethernet. 1631876;1490287840;mircea_popescu;might be advantageous to have electrically separate high and low. 1631877;1490287841;asciilifeform;(there are konsoomer-ready boxes for this, i had a bunch when working with the lab robot) 1631878;1490287848;mircea_popescu;but whatever, ianae. 1631879;1490287849;asciilifeform;multiple nics. 1631880;1490287876;asciilifeform;the 1 serious problem with everything-via-nic, is latency, it is an overhead-heavy thing, and intrinsically buffered 1631881;1490287889;mircea_popescu;wich is why i say, may be good to have rs aside. 1631882;1490287891;asciilifeform;you wouldn't want to pump audio, or animation, etc over it. 1631883;1490287898;asciilifeform;( or via serial ) 1631884;1490287950;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform that's ok, if i feel the need to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629701 i'll just pick up an ipad. 1631885;1490287950;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 20:46 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, the state of casual gaming is completely fucked up. so other than utter throwaways, stuff that looks like someone's undegrad project, the ~entire market of ipad-likes (stuff that works in the browser, or else via a "light" client for windows/mac, or else as a ipad/android etc app) is wholly like this : 1631886;1490287964;asciilifeform;sort of where i ended up, in this line of thought 1631887;1490287978;asciilifeform;'gimme a real comp, everything else can happen either later, or on dedicated nintendo' 1631888;1490287985;mircea_popescu;quite. 1631889;1490288018;mircea_popescu;large portion of the whole mess is actually trying to capitalize on the fact that the killer micros came with their own television set 1631890;1490288024;mircea_popescu;in contrast with gameboys or w.e 1631891;1490288037;mircea_popescu;which is why amiga made better computers than ameritrends back in 1992. 1631892;1490288044;asciilifeform;the 'killermost' micro, interestingly (commodore 64) -- did not 1631893;1490288056;asciilifeform;(did not ship a display. not until very late in its life) 1631894;1490288056;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1631895;1490288094;asciilifeform;amiga -- did; but this 'bolixed' it into a price point where it was outcompeted by the 64 ! 1631896;1490288099;asciilifeform;(and destroyed the maker) 1631897;1490288109;mircea_popescu;and once it did ship it, commodore i mean, it became less relevant nor more so. 1631898;1490288119;asciilifeform;aha, via the above process 1631899;1490288133;mircea_popescu;myea 1631900;1490288171;asciilifeform;the micro warz were a textbook case of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631399 1631901;1490288171;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 00:45 mircea_popescu: it is much worse to have a town of 1000 populated by 500 idiots with idiots' tastes and 20 bucks to spend each 1631902;1490288182;asciilifeform;'victory of the cockroaches' 1631903;1490288199;mircea_popescu;in any case by 2017 we rerally can relax re the "omfg television set" marketing criteria of 1987 1631904;1490288260;asciilifeform;turning vectorade into bitmapola really oughat be happening inside, or at least near, the lcd -- rather than in the comp. 1631905;1490288267;mircea_popescu;yes. 1631906;1490288270;mircea_popescu;for one thing. 1631907;1490288277;asciilifeform;ditto audio 1631908;1490288282;asciilifeform;the bolix folx got this right in 1981. 1631909;1490288284;mircea_popescu;for the other --- THERE IS NO REASON FOR BITMAPERIZWER TO TALK BACK!!11 1631910;1490288298;mircea_popescu;make it one way only! get all that shit out of the box and into the display where it can hurt nothing! 1631911;1490288309;asciilifeform;(the 36xx console has a motherfucking m68k JUST FOR THE AUDIO - 16 bits! m68k was selling as ~cpu~ in other boxes) 1631912;1490288357;asciilifeform;the only thing the console knew how to send back, was keystrokes, and optionally audio-in 1631913;1490288475;mircea_popescu;yeah i just meant re the fucking video bus 1631914;1490288509;asciilifeform;aha 1631915;1490288519;asciilifeform;video ended up on main system bus of pc, out of transistor poverty. 1631916;1490288523;asciilifeform;like the rest of it. 1631917;1490288548;mircea_popescu;yeah well no more of that. 1631918;1490288569;asciilifeform;it is an artifact of poverty, quite like those sheet metal huts the half-monkey folk in brazil live in. 1631919;1490288583;asciilifeform;ditto, e.g., dma. 1631920;1490288594;asciilifeform;( pretty sure we had 'the' dma thread not long ago ) 1631921;1490288649;mircea_popescu;poverty, and it's daughters : ignorance ; and the expectation that the state is good. 1631922;1490288774;asciilifeform;not long ago i saw a photo of some american mega-rich d00d, forget who, and nobody cares, his refrigerator, was full of synthetic 'budveiser' beer 1631923;1490288789;asciilifeform;symbolic of the traditional idiocy of the 'rich poor' man 1631924;1490288795;asciilifeform;and this is precisely what happened to the pc ! 1631925;1490288805;asciilifeform;the cheap transistors -- did not go to make bounds-checking memory, no 1631926;1490288817;asciilifeform;they went to tlb cache, and other nonsense to make winblowz slightly less 'molasses'. 1631927;1490288834;mircea_popescu;myeah 1631928;1490288848;mircea_popescu;!~google dolitte "if i were a rich man" 1631929;1490288850;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: If I Were A Rich Man Lyrics - Fiddler on the Roof - Soundtrack Lyrics: ; If I Were a Rich Man Lyrics - Fiddler on the Roof Cast - Soundtrack ...: ; If I Were a Rich Man (song) - Wikipedia: > 'U.S.-Israeli teen arrested in Israel over bomb threats to Jewish centers'. 'A young Israeli man who also holds U.S. citizenship was arrested in Israel on Thursday on suspicion of making dozens of hoax bomb threats against Jewish community centers in the United States and several other countries. At a court hearing near Tel Aviv, the suspect's defense attorney said the young man has a growth 1632031;1490297523;asciilifeform; in his head that causes behavioral problems.' 1632032;1490297526;asciilifeform;didjaknow. 1632033;1490297588;BingoBoingo;Is the growth his nose? 1632034;1490297646;asciilifeform;in yet other noose, https://wikileaks.org/vault7/darkmatter << part2: crapple edition (fw infectors for same, etc.) 1632035;1490297706;asciilifeform;'Also included in this release is the manual for the CIA's "NightSkies 1.2" a "beacon/loader/implant tool" for the Apple iPhone. Noteworthy is that NightSkies had reached 1.2 by 2008, and is expressly designed to be physically installed onto factory fresh iPhones. i.e the CIA has been infecting the iPhone supply chain of its targets since at least 2008.' 1632036;1490297717;asciilifeform;lulzy bit of disinfo, also (as if virginal pnojes were 'clean'.) 1632037;1490297870;asciilifeform;the bit with diddled nic dongles is lulzy. 1632038;1490297977;asciilifeform;the trick is not crapple-specific, either, most new laptop includes 'thunderbolt' plug, which is simply external pci 1632039;1490297981;asciilifeform;over which you can then dma, etc. 1632040;1490298182;asciilifeform;and oh hey hey hey lbj: 1632041;1490298187;asciilifeform;a broadcom GB nic datashit. 1632042;1490298194;asciilifeform;in this lulzbag. 1632043;1490298206;asciilifeform;( https://wikileaks.org/vault7/darkmatter/document/FDOS_1_0_FINAL_B57udiag/ ) 1632044;1490298251;asciilifeform;nm. was public for eons (e.g., ftp://ftp.tyan.com/LAN/Broadcom/B57BCMCD826/EFI/UserDiag/b57diag.pdf ) 1632045;1490298275;asciilifeform;( and 0 blob seekrits. ) 1632046;1490298293;phf;in totally unrelated, i just learned that bash (and ksh) support "Brace Expansion", e.g. {0..3} => 0 1 2 3 or {a..d} => a b c d. 1632047;1490298298;phf;actually there's more in the relevant section, but these two use cases i've often missed, and have no idea how i didn't know about them till now 1632048;1490298301;asciilifeform;( in which cia directorate, gotta wonder, do they keep the uncastrated datashits. ) 1632049;1490298331;asciilifeform;phf: interesting, and i don't recall ever seeing it used 1632050;1490298366;phf;{0..100} works as expected! 1632051;1490298405;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: They probably hide them at the Canada desk 1632052;1490298408;phf;i have a tool in my scripts folder, seq (e.g. seq 0 100) that does the same thing, and that i end up rewriting every once in a while 1632053;1490298438;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/usg-nsa-head-rogers-perjured-self-on-eavesdropping/ << Qntra - USG.NSA Head Rogers Perjured Self On Eavesdropping 1632054;1490298454;phf;i've never seen it used either, saw an example of it in recent poc||gtfo 1632055;1490298538;Framedragger;phf: just curious, you wrote `seq` yourself? 'cuz bash already has seq built-in 1632056;1490298550;Framedragger;(seq --help) 1632057;1490298592;phf;til 1632058;1490298693;doppler;well to be precise bash doesn't actually have a seq builtin 1632059;1490298702;doppler;but it does have brace expansion which largely serves the same basic purpose 1632060;1490298785;phf;i wonder how i've managed to never notice it. i use seq all over my scripts, and i have an own copy of seq too. i wonder how many times i was missing my seq just to fallback to stock :o 1632061;1490298793;Framedragger;doppler: ah right, seq is actually a binary, fancy that (so works outside bash - hence why various .sh scripts use seq instead of bash's {} i guess, to be more compatible? just a guess) 1632062;1490298807;Framedragger;hehe :) 1632063;1490298819;doppler;I use seq all the time when I write posix sh scripts (brace expansion is specific to certain shells) 1632064;1490298838;doppler;yeah, pretty much 1632065;1490298957;ben_vulpes;doppler: welcome to the wot, who is companioncube? 1632066;1490298975;Framedragger;!!v CB100C13DC966135F1D4D0FD4FBDC994EEAA381B961D96516A407FA51DAD3151 1632067;1490298976;deedbot;Framedragger rated doppler 1 << fresh blood / computer guy; his dad does account management 1632068;1490298982;doppler;dude I know from another channel 1632069;1490299005;doppler;thanks for the welcome 1632070;1490299013;ben_vulpes;there are other chans using deedbot wot? 1632071;1490299015;ben_vulpes;this i gotta see 1632072;1490299027;ben_vulpes;or whatever, no need to cramp your style 1632073;1490299059;doppler;nah, not as far as I know 1632074;1490299063;doppler;but CC knows about this place 1632075;1490299080;doppler;we were testing out the rating system 1632076;1490299107;ben_vulpes;any idea of why he doesn't hang out here? 1632077;1490299116;doppler;no idea :) 1632078;1490299133;ben_vulpes;#trilema-lounge in action already 1632079;1490299159;doppler;oh yeah, another thing about seq: it's not actually part of posix, and neither is BSD's jot(1) 1632080;1490299171;doppler;so being fully compatible is a real pain 1632081;1490299231;Framedragger;here i have seq but no jot. i see, so no guarantee 1632082;1490302135;asciilifeform;in other lulz, didjaknow, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/paymentserver.cpp#L111 << prb imports ssl certs ! the whole shit soup 1632083;1490302159;asciilifeform;( for how long nao ? i seem to recall that even gavin barfed, originally, from this, it was how hearn was booted out ..? ) 1632084;1490302761;ben_vulpes;hyu, no i did not know 1632085;1490302816;ben_vulpes;yeah i mean it makes as much sense as any of the other magic green lock stuff 1632086;1490306550;asciilifeform;reading that horror, it'd seem as if this were the heathen alternative to, e.g., http://shop.nosuchlabs.com ( and bbet, and similar ) 1632087;1490306560;asciilifeform;'payment protocol' lol. 1632088;1490306607;asciilifeform;the sheer depth of the retardation, ( https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0070.mediawiki ) >> 'Human-readable, secure payment destinations-- customers will be asked to authorize payment to "example.com" instead of an inscrutable, 34-character bitcoin address.' 'Resistance from man-in-the-middle attacks that replace a merchant's bitcoin address with an attacker's address before a transaction is authorized with a hardware w 1632089;1490306607;asciilifeform;allet.' 1632090;1490306618;asciilifeform;^ aaaanythingbutrsa!!!! 1632091;1490306701;asciilifeform;kinda hilarious, while the two 'cans of campbell soup' duke it out over massive-blox vs elephantine-blox, boring ol' workaday usgolade, e.g. 'pki', quietly made it into all prb variants 1632092;1490308608;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1632046 << well... yeah... 1632093;1490308608;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 19:44 phf: in totally unrelated, i just learned that bash (and ksh) support "Brace Expansion", e.g. {0..3} => 0 1 2 3 or {a..d} => a b c d. 1632094;1490308696;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1632082 << yeah. 1632095;1490308696;a111;Logged on 2017-03-23 20:48 asciilifeform: in other lulz, didjaknow, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/paymentserver.cpp#L111 << prb imports ssl certs ! the whole shit soup 1632096;1490308708;mircea_popescu;something something merchants payments something dorkitude. 1632097;1490309705;trinque;hola from new outpost 1632098;1490310483;asciilifeform;heya trinque 1632099;1490310485;asciilifeform;no moar texas ? 1632100;1490310529;ben_vulpes;hola trinque 1632101;1490310612;trinque;asciilifeform: nah, just downtown Houston vs formerly burbs 1632102;1490310619;asciilifeform;oh neato 1632103;1490319137;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5E75433AB8F5C8DC0E3AB8E326083C24393A3C26C31FC11F4AB5CFE078DFF36D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1383...2487 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.19.150.129 (ssh-rsa key from 195.19.150.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown RU KYA) 1632104;1490319137;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5E75433AB8F5C8DC0E3AB8E326083C24393A3C26C31FC11F4AB5CFE078DFF36D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1364...9587 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.19.150.129 (ssh-rsa key from 195.19.150.129 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown RU KYA) 1632105;1490322071;mod6;evening! 1632106;1490322520;mircea_popescu;so how's teh downtown. 1632107;1490322664;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/23/twelve-thousand-kay-with-jay/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Twelve thousand kay with Jay. 1632108;1490322927;asciilifeform;!!up gabriel_laddel_p 1632109;1490322927;deedbot;gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes. 1632110;1490322939;asciilifeform;persistent fella. 1632111;1490322976;BingoBoingo;lol, phaeton 1632112;1490323000;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: Exactly. Which is what is needed. For the record, "paving over the swamp" is coming along great, and that metaphore is wholly inadaquate for what I'm doing. 1632113;1490323010;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: do tell 1632114;1490323148;gabriel_laddel_p;Now that the "UX" is in some sense complete, I'm studying so the hardware can be swapped out from under it, exactly in the manner described by mircea_popescu earlier today. 1632115;1490323177;asciilifeform;what, approximately, do you have in mind, gabriel_laddel_p ? 1632116;1490323245;BingoBoingo;The problem with swamp foundations is that by the time you've poured enough hydraulic cement to make footings, the cement gets heavy. 1632117;1490323276;BingoBoingo;And there's a good chance some asshole nearby is running a salt plant and fucking with the water table 1632118;1490323279;mircea_popescu;but the 6th castle stayed up! 1632119;1490323291;gabriel_laddel_p;Reviewing all the log references in the "TODO: new, better hardware" node of the manual and compiling a list of hardware that is less braindamaged. Purchasing, assembling & them selling them as the 2nd generation of Masamune. 1632120;1490323291;asciilifeform;lol 1632121;1490323296;BingoBoingo;lmfao 1632122;1490323298;gabriel_laddel_p;(this is 2/3 years off) 1632123;1490323314;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: what means 'less braindamaged' 1632124;1490323317;asciilifeform;in this context 1632125;1490323420;gabriel_laddel_p;The most programmable possible. Idc if this means somebody reverse engineered the drivers, or it is documented, or it is simple enough that someone could revese engineer it, or or or 1632126;1490323433;asciilifeform;where, for example, do i buy a nic that doesn't dma ? or a cpu that works with it. 1632127;1490323442;asciilifeform;i'll buy right now. where are they. 1632128;1490323460;trinque;phf: log might be busted atm, or my network's wonky (just pulled everything out of boxes and reassembled, so it's possible it's me) 1632129;1490323464;gabriel_laddel_p;There was a software defined fourth NIC dropped in the logs that is pretty well documented. 1632130;1490323467;asciilifeform;trinque: the bot dropped off earlier 1632131;1490323472;trinque;ah 1632132;1490323475;mircea_popescu;no a111 atm 1632133;1490323519;trinque;mircea_popescu: downtown's great, welcomed me back last night with watching somebody drive wrong way up a one way road on the sidewalk to get to the burger joint I was at 1632134;1490323531;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: if you're thinking of nic-on-xilinx, every single one (with the exception of the 10BaseT half-duplex that's floated around since 1990s) relies on a xilinx-proprietary fabric turd 1632135;1490323534;mircea_popescu;ha! 1632136;1490323541;asciilifeform;(i.e. is not valid raw verilog) 1632137;1490323543;trinque;good old houston, been a decade 1632138;1490323559;trinque;the guy pulled into the place right behind a cop, who couldn't be bothered with it 1632139;1490323585;asciilifeform;trinque: i've always wondered who drives against traffic, and why. perhaps -- a brit 1632140;1490323623;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: I'm thinking of the document ben_vulpes dropped in the logs, which iirc runs on the greenarrays chip. 1632141;1490323630;trinque;asciilifeform: technically he didn't. went up the sidewalk 1632142;1490323650;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: greenarrays is neato. do you have one ? 1632143;1490323661;gabriel_laddel_p;Nope. 1632144;1490323680;asciilifeform;tricky to port something to it, if you dun have one. (i'm not aware of there being an emulator) 1632145;1490323701;gabriel_laddel_p;Am going to the FIG meetup group again to see if I can get a few for free... 1632146;1490323718;asciilifeform;i'd luvv to play with greenarrays, but refrained because i'm quite certain they will not outlive chuck moor 1632147;1490323735;asciilifeform;( even now, he is alive, and they are ~unobtainable ) 1632148;1490323741;gabriel_laddel_p;Everyone associated with forth is ugly, which worries me. 1632149;1490323779;asciilifeform;lel 1632150;1490323788;asciilifeform;moor is what, 80 y.o. nao? 1632151;1490323791;asciilifeform;90? 1632152;1490323809;gabriel_laddel_p;Perhaps his fab equipment will be auctioned off when he dies. 1632153;1490323826;gabriel_laddel_p;Anyways, that's the sort of stuff I'm on the lookout for when I say "incrementally swap out the underlying hardware". 1632154;1490323837;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: he's fabless 1632155;1490323863;asciilifeform;( y'know, like most ic sellers -- he pays someone to make'em ) 1632156;1490323914;gabriel_laddel_p;I know nothing about hardware. All I've got is a list of log lines where you talk about hardware that sucks less, and each and every time I record it. 1632157;1490323925;trinque;gabriel_laddel_p: what happened to that www archiver you talked about for a minute? 1632158;1490323960;gabriel_laddel_p;trinque: I wrote most of the code, got a machine to host it, and.... a bunch of nonsense has prevented me from getting to sf and setting it up. 1632159;1490323972;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: get a copy of, e.g., hennessey & patterson. and read. 1632160;1490324013;gabriel_laddel_p;trinque: I have not forgotten about #masamune either, but life moves slower than I want it to/thought it would. 1632161;1490324080;gabriel_laddel_p;tbh I would have thought phf would have seen the masamune video & flown out here to get his free install the next day, but apparently the rest of you are less excited about this than I am 1632162;1490324089;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: do you have a place to live yet ? 1632163;1490324095;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: nah 1632164;1490324098;asciilifeform;it really helps in re making hardware, i swear 1632165;1490324104;asciilifeform;y'know, having a place to put. 1632166;1490324106;gabriel_laddel_p;masamune did pay for my new shoes, clothes & weed though. 1632167;1490324132;trinque;gabriel_laddel_p: I proposed something to you, did I not? 1632168;1490324136;trinque;you ignored it because it wasn't california enough 1632169;1490324140;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: this type of life has worked for programmers (e.g., rms, though he did eventually turn into a human mushroom, and i do not think it was pure chance) 1632170;1490324144;gabriel_laddel_p;trinque: what did you propose? 1632171;1490324144;asciilifeform;but not for hardware folx!! 1632172;1490324152;trinque;gabriel_laddel_p: perhaps read the email when I bother to write you back 1632173;1490324171;trinque;I sit here in a town full of oil business 1632174;1490324187;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p when was the last time you had a full night's sleep ? or a proper meal ? 1632175;1490324200;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: 8-10 hours ago? 1632176;1490324229;asciilifeform;( perhaps ought to point out : amphetamine is not food, and also is not sleep ) 1632177;1490324256;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: if only I had amphetamines I'd have a place to sleep... 1632178;1490324266;asciilifeform;aaah lolk 1632179;1490324305;gabriel_laddel_p;fking annoying b/c it is EVERYWHERE around here, but I simply don't know anyone. Eg there was a 200lb meth bust miles from where I am staying. 1632180;1490324318;gabriel_laddel_p;and if tumblr is to be trusted, it is very pure. 1632181;1490324320;mircea_popescu;meth != amphetamine. 1632182;1490324332;gabriel_laddel_p;mircea_popescu: I don't like the regular stuff (adderall). 1632183;1490324340;mircea_popescu;also notrly. 1632184;1490324360;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: ~all dope turns, 'magically', into 100% purity, when busted in usa. it is a peculiarity of the prosecutorial system, moar pure --> moar sentence 1632185;1490324404;asciilifeform;for instance, a kg of lsd has, in all likelihood, never existed on planet3, but ~every single trial of american makers of it has involved such a qty or larger 1632186;1490324410;asciilifeform;the feedstock is counted as 'pure product'. 1632187;1490324427;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: https://annoyinglysparklyreview.tumblr.com/ < if you look into the tumblr tags she uses you can track where the meth routes are in CA. people post pictures all the time. I have FACES of dealers a few miles from me. 1632188;1490324438;gabriel_laddel_p;it all appears to be of high quality & coming from mexico 1632189;1490324471;gabriel_laddel_p;trinque: I read your email and filed it under "never gonna happen". 1632190;1490324478;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform and funny that nobody disputes all that nonsense, either. 1632191;1490324489;asciilifeform;lol just when i thought mircea_popescu had linked to every possible type of tmblr 1632192;1490324502;mircea_popescu;nah i link a very narrow selection 1632193;1490324511;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: ianal, but iirc it is postulated by statute 1632194;1490324516;mircea_popescu;most of tumblr is inept sjw-ing and poor-people-preoccupations. 1632195;1490324522;asciilifeform;and cemented by precedent. so only removable by thermonuke. 1632196;1490324549;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i'd still piuss all opver it. by that point, what do you have to lose. 1632197;1490324626;*;asciilifeform not deep scholar of subj, and has nfi what has been tried in the show trials, and with what result. 1632198;1490324746;asciilifeform;!!up gabriel_laddel_p 1632199;1490324746;deedbot;gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes. 1632200;1490324762;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: https://methed-up-cat-addict.tumblr.com/image/152333318381 < looks pure to me. 1632201;1490324770;gabriel_laddel_p;guy lives within a train ride. 1632202;1490324777;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632128 << i think stability issues are mostly digitalocean related at the moment. because i couldn't connect to log, and once i did bot autorecovered 1632203;1490324777;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 02:44 trinque: phf: log might be busted atm, or my network's wonky (just pulled everything out of boxes and reassembled, so it's possible it's me) 1632204;1490324805;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: do you recall the death ray thread ? 1632205;1490324819;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: no? 1632206;1490324831;asciilifeform;when $contraband is advertised openly on www, what do you suppose you'll find when you knock on the door. 1632207;1490324852;gabriel_laddel_p;that californians don't follow any laws and don't prosecute one another. 1632208;1490324861;gabriel_laddel_p;and that the local police are bought off 1632209;1490324883;mircea_popescu;he's actually not that far off. 1632210;1490324891;mircea_popescu;lazy bums abound in teh sunshine state. 1632211;1490324910;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: people openly sell LSD all the time out here. I was given a vial of liquid for free a few months ago 1632212;1490324922;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: did it work ? 1632213;1490324926;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: ya 1632214;1490324947;mircea_popescu;"evidently" 1632215;1490324966;asciilifeform;i'd ask 'what didja learn from it' but it is probably a mistake. 1632216;1490324994;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: it was what sparked my interest in physics. 1632217;1490325013;gabriel_laddel_p;the general lesson of that trip: "I'm not learning anything by hacking CL anymore, time to do something new" 1632218;1490325013;asciilifeform;this interest, is it active only when dosed ? or remains after. 1632219;1490325066;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632161 << i just didn't think the video was good. i also can install all the individual packages that are involved, but i wanted to see if and how the symbiosis makes you more productive 1632220;1490325066;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 02:54 gabriel_laddel_p: tbh I would have thought phf would have seen the masamune video & flown out here to get his free install the next day, but apparently the rest of you are less excited about this than I am 1632221;1490325085;BingoBoingo; asciilifeform: if only I had amphetamines I'd have a place to sleep... << You know... There's GIRLS at NA meetings 1632222;1490325093;asciilifeform;fwiw i walked away with same impression as phf 1632223;1490325093;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: it remains. Eg, presently reading - Brousentsov's Ternary Principle, Bergman's Number System and Ternary Mirror-symmetrical Arithmetic 1632224;1490325109;phf;but there was none of that, because there wasn't actually anything being done. i think it would be a lot more impressive if you setup a non trivial task and showed how masamune makes that task easier to perform 1632225;1490325130;asciilifeform;i had nfi what brousentsov's thing existed in engl. 1632226;1490325134;asciilifeform;*that 1632227;1490325146;gabriel_laddel_p;phf: even if I gave you a list of all the packages, it would take ~6months to get everything playing nicely. 1632228;1490325155;asciilifeform;gabriel_laddel_p: phf has it. use kalman reti's infamous bolix movie as a guide. 1632229;1490325160;phf;^ 1632230;1490325167;BingoBoingo;And some of those GIRLS at NA meetings might have places for sleeping! 1632231;1490325178;gabriel_laddel_p;BingoBoingo: and they suck enough at life to end up in NA... 1632232;1490325235;phf;well, i wouldn't go as far as playing nicely either. you have a clim editor, that you can theoretically extend in all kinds of interesting ways, yet you're still using it in combination with the emacs, etc. 1632233;1490325243;BingoBoingo;Well if you aren't sure drugs aren't part of problem keeping you from a mailing address feel free to keep trying them. 1632234;1490325284;gabriel_laddel_p;phf: nobody is going to drop all of their emacs packages & workflow overnight to learn a new system. Emacs is going to stick around until new hardware is made. 1632235;1490325297;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: the depressing part, d00d seems to be 'chasing dragon', appears to think that the Ultimate Dope is waiting, somewhere, to be found, wunderwaffen, will bring victory. 1632236;1490325308;gabriel_laddel_p;phf: also, errors in the CLIM debugger need to go somewhere. 1632237;1490325346;gabriel_laddel_p;phf: if you have ideas of what is to be done when the whole CLIM process freezes, please, do let me know. 1632238;1490325392;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: From what I understand "Acid Trip Jackpot Ideas" are like Elliot's powerball tickets... 1632239;1490325426;gabriel_laddel_p;BingoBoingo: "I should study more" isn't a winning idea. GTFO. 1632240;1490325431;gabriel_laddel_p;useless puritan idiocy 1632241;1490325455;mircea_popescu;i like how he keeps picking random people to be aggressive with. 1632242;1490325466;ben_vulpes;heh https://annoyinglysparklyreview.tumblr.com/tagged/tweaker-girls 1632243;1490325478;ben_vulpes;shame she can't you know pose 1632244;1490325478;phf;my solutions to problems like that don't usually involve "bring in a 40mb package". i'd write a top level handler, that shows a modal x11 based repl/restart machinery. sort of poor man's genera 1632245;1490325485;trinque;gabriel_laddel_p: your "I will sell computers" is never going to happen. 1632246;1490325502;mircea_popescu;that's what they told flaubert also! 1632247;1490325504;asciilifeform;i could tell gabriel_laddel_p that when i was a small boy, i also wanted somebody to go straight to 'great inventing' without all thar book larnin' 1632248;1490325508;asciilifeform;but it won't help. 1632249;1490325535;trinque;he's just here to argue with himself to charge up the courage to I dunno, do a bump of meth, or not do a bump of meth, or w/e 1632250;1490325538;trinque;I couldn't give a shit less 1632251;1490325559;trinque;the thing about addicts is that it's their *entire* pattern of behaving, defines the whole thing 1632252;1490325582;asciilifeform;at least pre-sobriety BingoBoingo , say, was calm. 1632253;1490325593;trinque;the chorus of "when will you learn" is part of the masturbation 1632254;1490325603;trinque;"fuck you mom I'm an artist" 1632255;1490325623;ben_vulpes;but at least the meth is burning the timid out: https://68.media.tumblr.com/b3c13481af4b0bd8b00da01226e327fe/tumblr_olsuewX3Bs1vhml3xo1_1280.jpg 1632256;1490325628;mircea_popescu;not so sure that's a sane comparison. 1632257;1490325634;trinque;gabriel_laddel_p: you do realize that there are several folks here that have made money doing exactly the kind of consulting I described? 1632258;1490325655;gabriel_laddel_p;trinque: making money is easy. making money doing something _meaningful_ is the difficult part. 1632259;1490325662;trinque;lol 1632260;1490325667;mircea_popescu;right. 1632261;1490325696;trinque;yeah I worked for the alcoholic waiting for meaning in his life long enough 1632262;1490325713;gabriel_laddel_p;asciilifeform: I never wanted to be a great inventor. Still don't. 1632263;1490325714;mircea_popescu;speaking of which, anyone seen search and destroy ? 1632264;1490325717;mircea_popescu;little gem of a scorsese movie. 1632265;1490325738;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: I your taste. 1632266;1490325744;gabriel_laddel_p;*applaud 1632267;1490325782;gabriel_laddel_p;trinque: I'm only here because ascii mentioned me earlier. 1632268;1490325846;ben_vulpes;gabriel_laddel_p: hm? that's from your link 1632269;1490325884;gabriel_laddel_p;ben_vulpes: exactly. You said "shame she can't pose", I started to hunt for _that exact photo_ and then you dropped it into the logs 1632270;1490325907;ben_vulpes;yeah that's not a particularly good pose 1632271;1490325928;BingoBoingo; BingoBoingo: "I should study more" isn't a winning idea. GTFO. << Please study more drugs. Gain experience. Maybe things work out for you and can do the right about face learning to drug like a gentleman. 1632272;1490325950;gabriel_laddel_p;BingoBoingo: and what, pray tell does "drug like a gentleman" look like? 1632273;1490326028;gabriel_laddel_p;and to be clear - the only reason I had that LSD is because someone I've never met gave it to me. for free. 1632274;1490326048;trinque;so we're doing this thing where we're extras, while he convinces himself he's doing fine? 1632275;1490326063;BingoBoingo;Well, like Erdos, except... with mailing address. 1632276;1490326112;BingoBoingo;Also ty asciilifeform and mircea_popescu for getting a pretty little FUCKGOAT to my mailing address 1632277;1490326140;mircea_popescu;o hey. 1632278;1490326187;BingoBoingo;Arrived earlier this week 1632279;1490326398;ben_vulpes;in other cow farts: http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/n0905-7000-underground-gas-bubbles-poised-to-explode-in-arctic/ 1632280;1490326419;ben_vulpes;do forgive the relentless agw drum-beatin', the photos are awesome 1632281;1490326949;phf;on recommendation of qntra i bought a copy of "The Camp of The Saints". i'm hoping it'll teach me about the great again 1632282;1490327107;asciilifeform;lolneato 1632283;1490327316;asciilifeform;and congrats BingoBoingo . 1632284;1490327321;asciilifeform;1st confirmed receipt. 1632285;1490327370;BingoBoingo;asciilifeform: Well, other than danielpbarron 1632286;1490327376;asciilifeform;yea 1632287;1490327410;asciilifeform;he got all of the rev1 units 1632288;1490327414;BingoBoingo;The PCB is beautifully glossy 1632289;1490327541;BingoBoingo;In other news thermoplastic hose clamps on plasticar are still holding 100% of fluid one day and ~1/4 tank of gas later 1632290;1490328198;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1632291;1490328203;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1011.0, vol: 6276.01099182 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1041.411, vol: 7044.08486 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1011.4, vol: 19473.97261877 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1004.782548, vol: 3225.73610000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1010.27, vol: 2189.93770377 | Volume-weighted last average: 1016.24349885 1632292;1490328516;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats 1632293;1490328518;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 458664 | Current Difficulty: 4.75705205061E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 459647 | Next Difficulty In: 983 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 8 hours, 19 minutes, and 35 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None 1632294;1490332161;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DD0E3BF781D9B479A5A11759C4734E7CE1B0337D61A5BCA40DA463A043E15F5B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1489...1257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.121.14.60 (ssh-rsa key from 87.121.14.60 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (smokeping.telecablenet.com. BG 13) 1632295;1490332162;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DD0E3BF781D9B479A5A11759C4734E7CE1B0337D61A5BCA40DA463A043E15F5B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1523...0437 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '87.121.14.60 (ssh-rsa key from 87.121.14.60 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (smokeping.telecablenet.com. BG 13) 1632296;1490332162;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/89F2BE8C94DAD5488600E218B2222796FDD09E4DCBE514B8950303B881F296E7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1428...2217 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.174.144.169 (ssh-rsa key from 80.174.144.169 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (80.174.144.169.dyn.user.ono.com. ES B CT) 1632297;1490332163;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/89F2BE8C94DAD5488600E218B2222796FDD09E4DCBE514B8950303B881F296E7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1597...5647 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.174.144.169 (ssh-rsa key from 80.174.144.169 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (80.174.144.169.dyn.user.ono.com. ES B CT) 1632298;1490332687;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1D1931707C20DD7D7544512D8996E77CB83EAA7332A20F0B2975F28A9B21CF83 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1375...1783 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.163.154.248 (ssh-rsa key from 83.163.154.248 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (a83-163-154-248.adsl.xs4all.nl. NL) 1632299;1490332687;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1D1931707C20DD7D7544512D8996E77CB83EAA7332A20F0B2975F28A9B21CF83 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1724...8379 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '83.163.154.248 (ssh-rsa key from 83.163.154.248 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (a83-163-154-248.adsl.xs4all.nl. NL) 1632300;1490336409;ben_vulpes;jeeeesus the bruce sterling sxsw talk is fun 1632301;1490336474;ben_vulpes;(paraphrasing) "ubi is great. pay off the taker class, and let the rich white guys who control all the capital and wrote the deep learning shit that took the bottom out of the commodity labor market make all the resource allocation decisions." 1632302;1490356748;Framedragger;asciilifeform: parcel arrived at delivery office but (lol i was right) got held up by customs :D 1632303;1490356761;Framedragger;never happened before, will be fun to inquire why 1632304;1490356795;Framedragger;(i think it's just because there's a customs fee to be paid but will see - lulzy) 1632305;1490357029;*;mircea_popescu submits qntra story, "terrorist going by Framedragger on deep web nicked by vigilant state agentura over DRUGS and CHILD PRONZ SHIPPED THROUGH STATE MAIL!!11 HONEST HE DID!" 1632306;1490357047;shinohai;kek 1632307;1490357083;Framedragger;*HER MAJESTY'S* mail 1632308;1490357090;mircea_popescu;on questioning he had this to say : "tis a fair cop." 1632309;1490357255;Framedragger;:D totally 1632310;1490362095;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632301 << what's ubi ? 1632311;1490362095;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 06:21 ben_vulpes: (paraphrasing) "ubi is great. pay off the taker class, and let the rich white guys who control all the capital and wrote the deep learning shit that took the bottom out of the commodity labor market make all the resource allocation decisions." 1632312;1490362240;Framedragger;(universal) basic income i assume 1632313;1490362312;asciilifeform;Framedragger: aka landlord payola, lol 1632314;1490362317;Framedragger;ycumbinator is funding some kind of experiment or some shit iirc 1632315;1490363282;mircea_popescu;yeah, last ditch desperate attempt to keep the "real estate values" from going to the ~1 yuan / sqft reality sees them at. 1632316;1490363528;*;shinohai remembers when reddit did a ubi "experiment" that gave PENNIES in Bitcoin to schmucks, was shut down by Ellen Pao 1632317;1490364980;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/once-upon-a-time-in-cairo/ << Trilema - Once upon a time in Cairo 1632318;1490365271;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4441079067885945F7C03C3BB9E8095A9892FC0F75477ACB5BF267F82E177ADD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1709...7889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.145.194.72 (ssh-rsa key from 217.145.194.72 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (LaszloCukPaka.MadNet.sk. SK NI) 1632319;1490365272;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4441079067885945F7C03C3BB9E8095A9892FC0F75477ACB5BF267F82E177ADD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1687...4569 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.145.194.72 (ssh-rsa key from 217.145.194.72 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (LaszloCukPaka.MadNet.sk. SK NI) 1632320;1490365511;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632315 << hard to picture that giving lusers 1k$/mo ea. would visibly nudge the pricing from lizard pov 1632321;1490365511;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 13:48 mircea_popescu: yeah, last ditch desperate attempt to keep the "real estate values" from going to the ~1 yuan / sqft reality sees them at. 1632322;1490365534;asciilifeform;( from luser pov -- price is 'exactly same', landlord simply collects the usg payola ) 1632323;1490365725;asciilifeform;LaszloCukPaka.MadNet.sk << deserves some sort of medal for sheer orc host name. unfortunately -- dead. 1632324;1490366931;mircea_popescu;of course it would. currently they dispose of about 1.5k a month. 1632325;1490366955;mircea_popescu;bout a third of which goes towards supporting the nonsensical notion that real estate in the us is actually worth money. 1632326;1490367160;asciilifeform;for so long as there's any money in usa, it is 'worth money', purely mechanically, that's how money is collected from the peons 1632327;1490367222;mircea_popescu;you know, chumpatrons are a thing, yes, but there's no 0 cost extraction. there's plenty of chumps who, while carrying nonzero chumpatronium, are also worth below 0 on the chumpatron raw materials market. 1632328;1490367252;asciilifeform;aha, just like petro 1632329;1490367255;mircea_popescu;the us peons, much like the argentines (and every passing month more like the argentines) are not actually worth quartering the carcass. 1632330;1490367267;mircea_popescu;think "kreutzfeld cattle". 1632331;1490367296;asciilifeform;the reliable pill is of course the chinese-in-africa algo 1632332;1490367303;mircea_popescu;and it is quite literally bovine sjw encephalopathy. 1632333;1490367328;asciilifeform;barbed wire , mine field, machine gun for the locals who are slow to get the message; imported slaves working inside, extracting molybdenum or whichever. 1632334;1490367332;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes, but part and parcel of that algo is that... real estate in the us... is not worth money. 1632335;1490367338;mircea_popescu;not unless you get chinese deeds at any rate. 1632336;1490367387;mircea_popescu;and last i checked you had to be in their party presidium whatever to qualify for deed issuance in colonies. 1632337;1490367601;asciilifeform;seems likely 1632338;1490367951;mircea_popescu;in related lulz : girl here got invited to a 5 day "history of argentina" "workshop". the schedule ? 4 days discussing "democracia". 1632339;1490367973;mircea_popescu;meanwhile the only point of argentine history worth even casual inspection is de rosas. who -- very pointedly NOT democracia. the contrary of democracia. 1632340;1490367991;mircea_popescu;but, bovine sjw encephalopathy. 1632341;1490368301;asciilifeform;de rosas << the .ar stalin neh 1632342;1490368320;asciilifeform;betcha the chinese would shoot one if there even could be such a thing today. 1632343;1490370172;mircea_popescu;pretty much the only time argentina won over england. 1632344;1490370201;mircea_popescu;but, notably, he was unanimously voted in power. something stalin ever tried to pretend to and emulate. guy had it naturally, people fucking loved him. 1632345;1490370215;mircea_popescu;to this day it burns the libertard, the fact that no, democracy is NOT popular. rosas is. 1632346;1490370219;asciilifeform;while he was winning, aha, loved. 1632347;1490370242;mircea_popescu;pretty much throughout, actually. dude was like 80 when he died. 1632348;1490370259;asciilifeform;didn't he die in england, living in some nowhere ? 1632349;1490370268;mircea_popescu;anyway. strong law-and-order ticket, repressed the bums (social group that today in the us masquerades as "students") and so on. 1632350;1490370283;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform eventually the kingdom of brazil defeated them and he left yea. 1632351;1490370381;asciilifeform;mega-napoleon 1632352;1490370388;mircea_popescu;just about 1632353;1490370399;mircea_popescu;certainly a much more respectable, as well as effectual, historical figure. 1632354;1490376177;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: had a few amusing scenarios for how 'ubi' might play out: "massive army", "un camps, did you know they've got refugee camps down to the point where it costs 1200 us/year to mostly keep them from killing each other?", "genocide" etc 1632355;1490383735;mircea_popescu;afghanistan fambly lived happily for 1k/year pre usg tardation, for instance. 1632356;1490384071;ben_vulpes;60% leech factor isn't crazy 1632357;1490384081;ben_vulpes;20% is downright idealistic 1632358;1490384102;ben_vulpes;ofc what that 1.2k per annum buys is depressingly further downmarket from the traditional afghani lifestyle 1632359;1490384231;ben_vulpes;which is right in line with other threads elsewhere about how we got cvasi-marxism, where we vote ourselves more stuff every year but what gets delivered is a plastic sham of what was ordered. looks like everything is going to be free, but that 'everything' just serves to keep us anchored to our pocketscreens 1632360;1490384280;ben_vulpes;and entirely unsurprisingly, the slippage on the country-wide market-clearing buy order doesn't show up in price (no, that'd hose the inflation numbers) but in crapflation 1632361;1490384291;ben_vulpes;old thread 1632362;1490384312;ben_vulpes;in perkier news: https://68.media.tumblr.com/7e77773542627ef05d79c65cd6138fa6/tumblr_om9fnzNuHD1srtogco1_540.jpg 1632363;1490384441;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1632364;1490384518;mircea_popescu;why use the mechanisms that work (but they work! which is unfair!11) when you could use no mechanisms at all and dream a little dream of things. 1632365;1490384707;mircea_popescu;honestly i'd be muych surprised if the average bloke in the us wouldn't actually prefer living as 1997 average afghanistani instead. 1632366;1490384727;mircea_popescu;for one thing the food's lots better. 1632367;1490384763;ben_vulpes;nah, he's been drinking progesterone from the recycled water for so long he's practically a woman 1632368;1490384984;mircea_popescu;pretty sure average afghani woman happier than anything watching "friends" 1632369;1490385082;mod6;ben_vulpes: niiiice. 1632370;1490385169;ben_vulpes;may quite well be the case that babe who lives to obey and satisfy her man is far happier than careerist, independent, "i'll buy whatever dumb vehicle my emotions push me to!", but have fun making that sale to the americans attached to equality-at-any-cost 1632371;1490385201;ben_vulpes;utterly fucking relevant: http://bureauborsche.com/thumbs/projects/nike-equality-campaign/single-poster-typography/single-poster-typography/nike_equality_single_page_41-170x240.jpg 1632372;1490385213;ben_vulpes;i saw this poster with some female athlete's face and burst out laughing the other day 1632373;1490385227;ben_vulpes;"fucking what? you need your own leagues to even take a podium spot." 1632374;1490385231;mircea_popescu;it's not nearly as unilateral as all that. 20yo afghani female is actually competent and appreciated for her competence. this is a damn sight more than anything hilary clinton ever achieved in her sad, contorted stump of a life 1632375;1490385243;mircea_popescu;let alone all the wanna-bes looking in through the front window. 1632376;1490385279;mircea_popescu;"but mp, she wasn't in the situation room!!11" hurr. 1632377;1490385281;mod6;<+ben_vulpes> "fucking what? you need your own leagues to even take a podium spot." << heheh 1632378;1490385319;ben_vulpes;five minutes later i realized it was a commentary on /race/ and not /sex/ 1632379;1490385985;mod6;ah 1632380;1490386270;ben_vulpes;in other stale lolz: http://nypost.com/2017/03/01/rachel-dolezal-changes-her-name-to-west-african-moniker/ 1632381;1490386302;ben_vulpes;and it looks like we're stuck with the aca. 1632382;1490387409;asciilifeform;in other lulz, ACHTUNG s.nsa customers! aaalmost all FUCKGOATS -- shipped 1632383;1490387570;ben_vulpes;> blessing /dev/sda2 with Holy Penguin Pee << wat 1632384;1490387591;asciilifeform;waiwat 1632385;1490387619;ben_vulpes;i have no idea, man 1632386;1490387648;trinque;isn't bless the "make bootable" thinger on a mac? 1632387;1490387728;ben_vulpes;sounds familiar 1632388;1490388434;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632355 << orlol discussed this, and it was 100% true, 'homo americanus' has some very serious damage that is very expensive to build prosthesis for -- he has no family , no friends, no one will lend him money other than at extortionate rates, has no one alive whom he could live with in small hut, 5 to 10 sq. metres, without killing one another 1632389;1490388434;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 19:28 mircea_popescu: afghanistan fambly lived happily for 1k/year pre usg tardation, for instance. 1632390;1490388511;asciilifeform;the other end of it is that the afghani has no printing press dumping usd on him by the megatonne. and if he did -- someone would collect it back , yes 1632391;1490388529;asciilifeform;in the form of imposed 'living expenses.' 1632392;1490388556;asciilifeform;also where does the 1k figure come from ? for what does a smallholder-farmer even need money. 1632393;1490390162;asciilifeform;meanwhile, in prbland, https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-March/013766.html 1632394;1490390325;trinque;https://bitcoincore.org/en/2017/03/23/schnorr-signature-aggregation/ << also. 1632395;1490390331;trinque;and guess who 1632396;1490390366;asciilifeform;who? 1632397;1490390464;trinque;wuille 1632398;1490390597;asciilifeform;iirc he's most of what's left of prb in terms of working hands, neh 1632399;1490390630;trinque;"From a privacy standpoint, Schnorr allows the entire policy of the multisig to be obscured and indistinguishable from a conventional single pubkey." << and what happens when the indistinguishability flows the other way... 1632400;1490390737;asciilifeform;trinque: it's a multilayered shit-sandwich: aside from the crackpot 'infinite number of sigs in finite sized crate' aspect entirely: 1632401;1490390741;asciilifeform;multisig is an evil 1632402;1490390757;asciilifeform;its ultimate purpose -- equiv. of 1990s-style key escrow. 1632403;1490390776;trinque;aha, entirely. 1632404;1490390799;trinque;and I take the above to mean they'd be able to craft multi-sig transactions that are signature equivalent to a single-sig I create. 1632405;1490390820;asciilifeform;waiwat 1632406;1490390872;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-27#1354404 << see also. 1632407;1490390872;a111;Logged on 2015-12-27 17:38 asciilifeform: 'It is about sending a strong message. I think we may need to start an accreditation scheme for Bitcoin-consensus compliant wallets and services. Through code signing and use of multisig, we can even distinguish transactions made by compliant wallets and non-compliant wallets, and have pools not mine them (or wallets refuse to send to known-non-compliant wallets).' 1632408;1490390915;trinque;I expect that the Snore signature is easily collided by some means; obviously I'm not sitting here with the exploit in hand. 1632409;1490390942;trinque;and that the intent is to be able to malleate transactions into multisig 1632410;1490390986;asciilifeform;afaik classical ecdsa doesn't 'malleate' into it 1632411;1490391003;trinque;they say in the article that they would want to convert the whole existing chain to this scheme 1632412;1490391010;asciilifeform;though there's nothing to keep crackpot alts from wrapping whatever they want around existing sigs 1632413;1490391046;trinque;maybe I misread. 1632414;1490391243;trinque;it's not clear; they propose replacing the existing signature checking OPs entirely, so maybe the crackpot idea is schnorr past certain block 1632415;1490391254;trinque;if replaced, I dunno how anyone would -verifyall 1632416;1490391288;asciilifeform;afaik prb hasn't 'verifyall' for years nao. 1632417;1490391295;asciilifeform;or anything equivalent. 1632418;1490391298;trinque;lulk, no problem then 1632419;1490391314;asciilifeform;'what the hell do you want with those old blocks, terrorist' 1632420;1490391317;trinque;sometimes it's hard to contort oneself to the fatlogic required to read these things 1632421;1490391563;asciilifeform;!!up TomServo 1632422;1490391563;deedbot;TomServo voiced for 30 minutes. 1632423;1490391580;TomServo;Ahoy there. 1632424;1490391604;TomServo;I was just curious if anyone else saw this in there trb, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true 1632425;1490391615;TomServo;Didn't see mention in the logs. 1632426;1490391617;TomServo;their* 1632427;1490391622;asciilifeform;lemme check. 1632428;1490391661;ben_vulpes;not here 1632429;1490391748;TomServo;Mine ran like that until presently, when I restarted it. Waiting to see what happens. 1632430;1490391858;asciilifeform;negative TomServo 1632431;1490391866;asciilifeform;not found any such thing on either of my nodes. 1632432;1490391922;asciilifeform;TomServo: is there anything peculiar about the clock on that box ? 1632433;1490391945;TomServo;asciilifeform: I'll check. 1632434;1490391986;asciilifeform;check also that the disk is not full. 1632435;1490392046;asciilifeform;TomServo: is the linked snippet the earliest occurrence of the string InvalidChainFound in your debug.log ? 1632436;1490392109;asciilifeform;look for the earliest mention, and also for 'Reorganize failed' and 'ConnectBlock failed', and post plz. 1632437;1490392148;asciilifeform;see also http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=makefiles&_i=InvalidChainFound for possible logic paths . 1632438;1490392154;TomServo;asciilifeform: time is okay, other than trb logs being gmt system is cdt. disk okay. Yes, earliest. 1632439;1490392182;TomServo;before restarting, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4T8nX/?raw=true 1632440;1490392200;asciilifeform;TomServo: what happened when you restarted ? post the first MB or so of log after the restart. 1632441;1490392644;TomServo;asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Vimd4/?raw=true reorg / connect block failed 1632442;1490392661;asciilifeform;where was this 1632443;1490392669;asciilifeform;prior to the 1st segment ? or after ? 1632444;1490392702;asciilifeform;also what patch set do you use, TomServo ? my trb doesn't have time stamps, for instance. 1632445;1490392826;asciilifeform;and how did you come up with these pastes ? shouldn't the 03/20/17 01:19:27 and 03/20/17 01:19:28 piece have appeared INSIDE the one at http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632424 ? 1632446;1490392826;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 21:40 TomServo: I was just curious if anyone else saw this in there trb, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true 1632447;1490392862;TomServo;I just tail for height, I'm going through the whole debug now. 1632448;1490392878;asciilifeform;i think something is wrong with your clock, TomServo 1632449;1490392902;asciilifeform;this box runs ntp ? 1632450;1490392932;asciilifeform;from your pastes it looks to me like your clock runs nonmonotonically !! 1632451;1490392992;asciilifeform;consider : ( apologies for log clutter ) : 1632452;1490392994;asciilifeform;03/20/17 00:29:46 SetBestChain: new best=0000000000000000009f height=458050 work=85971757952375240341601331 1632453;1490392994;asciilifeform;03/20/17 00:33:38 SetBestChain: new best=0000000000000000016f height=458051 work=85973801121849809044067940 1632454;1490392994;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=00000000000000000056 height=458053 work=85977887460798946449001158 1632455;1490392994;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 InvalidChainFound: current best=0000000000000000016f height=458051 work=85973801121849809044067940 1632456;1490393039;asciilifeform;~~ vs ~~ 1632457;1490393042;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:27 AcceptToMemoryPool(): accepted 329a98ff2b 1632458;1490393042;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:27 received block 00000000000000000056 1632459;1490393042;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 REORGANIZE 1632460;1490393042;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: Reorganize() : ConnectBlock failed 1632461;1490393043;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=00000000000000000056 height=458053 work=85977887460798946449001158 1632462;1490393046;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 InvalidChainFound: current best=0000000000000000016f height=458051 work=85973801121849809044067940 1632463;1490393049;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: SetBestChain() : Reorganize failed 1632464;1490393051;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: AcceptBlock() : AddToBlockIndex failed 1632465;1490393053;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED 1632466;1490393060;asciilifeform;how can these occur in the same debug.log if the clock were monotonic. 1632467;1490393073;asciilifeform;at some point, time flowed backwards... 1632468;1490393087;asciilifeform;hence the block rejection. 1632469;1490393102;asciilifeform;now, ~why~ TomServo's clock ran backwards, i do not know. 1632470;1490393104;ben_vulpes;eh? timestamps? 1632471;1490393113;TomServo;Hmmm, little late to be getting caught up with daylight savings.. 1632472;1490393134;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: he must've put in timestamps, at some point, iirc a few people did 1632473;1490393137;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: comparing timestamps above and below vs ? 1632474;1490393145;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: think for 5min. 1632475;1490393148;TomServo;Don't waste any more time on it. I'll verify some things. 1632476;1490393157;asciilifeform;nono this is interesting 1632477;1490393168;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: these two pastes are supposed to be from same debug.log 1632478;1490393179;ben_vulpes;i see 1632479;1490393180;asciilifeform;and contiguous internally 1632480;1490393190;asciilifeform;physically impossible without a broken clock. 1632481;1490393208;ben_vulpes;yeah i see it now. the ~~ ~~ confused me. 1632482;1490393217;asciilifeform;(or , alternatively, a catastrophically buggy timestamp printer ) 1632483;1490393233;TomServo;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JOrzo/?raw=true patches 1632484;1490393237;asciilifeform;TomServo: do me a favour, post your entire debug.log somewhere. 1632485;1490393243;asciilifeform;i dun care if it's 100G, i'll load it, promise. 1632486;1490393256;asciilifeform;not so long ago i ate mircea_popescu's , what, 200G one. 1632487;1490393298;asciilifeform;TomServo: odd, i don't see anything re timestamps in there 1632488;1490393306;TomServo;Not quite a 1G, I have to restart it a lot. I'll find somewhere for it. 1632489;1490393315;asciilifeform;TomServo: gzip, post plx. 1632490;1490393318;asciilifeform;whole file. 1632491;1490393333;asciilifeform;alternatively you can write the perl script to find when your clock ran backwards, yourself. 1632492;1490393364;TomServo;I'm starting with a -logtimestamps switch. 1632493;1490393371;asciilifeform;!!up TomServo 1632494;1490393371;deedbot;TomServo voiced for 30 minutes. 1632495;1490393412;asciilifeform;oh hm, apparently we had'em , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp?v=makefiles#0171 1632496;1490393418;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes ^ 1632497;1490393461;ben_vulpes;mhm 1632498;1490393491;asciilifeform;also i betcha you can replicate this effect by moving clock back. 1632499;1490393508;asciilifeform;( somebody with a node on a lan, that nothing is relying on -- try it ) 1632500;1490393539;asciilifeform;at any rate imho the log paste nails it, case closed. 1632501;1490393541;*;asciilifeform bbl 1632502;1490393732;TomServo;Before my voice goes, trinque how do I get unwiped from the wot? 1632503;1490393753;ben_vulpes;TomServo: have you tried registering? 1632504;1490393766;TomServo;If I recall, there was a case sensitivity issue during the schism 1632505;1490393792;TomServo;ben_vulpes: I had ratings previously. 1632506;1490393793;trinque;long since remedied 1632507;1490393862;trinque;TomServo: I didn't delete any data, but I'm happy to look into it. 1632508;1490393875;trinque;lemme see what was in the original export 1632509;1490394151;trinque;TomServo: ah yep I see what's wrong, fixing it 1632510;1490394185;TomServo;trinque: cool. thanks. 1632511;1490394348;trinque;!!gettrust deedbot TomServo 1632512;1490394348;deedbot;L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections. 1632513;1490394364;trinque;TomServo: teh ministry of deedbutt thanks you for your report 1632514;1490399412;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/sears-running-out-of-things-to-sell/ << Qntra - Sears Running Out Of Things To Sell 1632515;1490420848;BingoBoingo;F1rst 1632516;1490449302;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/133CEB2E181DE608F7BDCEAC5019F101DC8C8E098181B0438D5E915DC357C29A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1619...8757 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.111.184.211 (ssh-rsa key from 89.111.184.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (2589.ovz-ssd8.hc.ru. RU) 1632517;1490449302;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/133CEB2E181DE608F7BDCEAC5019F101DC8C8E098181B0438D5E915DC357C29A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1350...2753 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.111.184.211 (ssh-rsa key from 89.111.184.211 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (2589.ovz-ssd8.hc.ru. RU) 1632518;1490449977;asciilifeform;in other lulz, somebody must've read mircea_popescu's story with the bus seats : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KakyqmG9XHs 1632519;1490453550;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/more-state-run-job-boards-hacked/ << Qntra - More State Run Job Boards Hacked 1632520;1490453786;shinohai;Bwahahahaha BingoBoingo 1632521;1490454873;asciilifeform;!~later tell TomServo you were right, it wasn't the clock, the original log is monotonic ( probably oughta post it publicly ) -- the boojum is a failed reorg, and it is impossible to say why it failed, could be disk rot. 1632522;1490454873;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1632523;1490454911;asciilifeform;my current understanding is that reorg can only fail if there is a catastrophic problem with db 1632524;1490454986;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 REORGANIZE 1632525;1490454986;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: Reorganize() : ConnectBlock failed 1632526;1490454987;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=00000000000000000056 height=458053 work=85977887460798946449001158 1632527;1490454987;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 InvalidChainFound: current best=0000000000000000016f height=458051 work=85973801121849809044067940 1632528;1490454987;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: SetBestChain() : Reorganize failed 1632529;1490454989;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: AcceptBlock() : AddToBlockIndex failed 1632530;1490454991;asciilifeform;03/20/17 01:19:28 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED 1632531;1490454997;asciilifeform;^ the opening shot. 1632532;1490455120;asciilifeform;!~later tell TomServo also your 'recovery' debug.log doesn't seem to be one -- there are no block acceptance messages therein 1632533;1490455121;jhvh1;asciilifeform: The operation succeeded. 1632534;1490458432;asciilifeform;!!up CompanionCube 1632535;1490458432;deedbot;CompanionCube voiced for 30 minutes. 1632536;1490458456;*;CompanionCube wants to just lurk 1632537;1490458473;asciilifeform;aite. 1632538;1490458490;asciilifeform;can also read log, http://btcbase.org/log . 1632539;1490459773;shinohai;Cool, there are like almost NO lurkers here 1632540;1490459851;asciilifeform;folks coming from heathendom, who 'oh i'll lurk', despite being shown the logs, remind me of fresh-off-the-boat emigres from east asia who will come to somebody's house and then insist on trying to balance with their legs on the toilet, 'just like back home' 1632541;1490460091;CompanionCube;why not both? 1632542;1490460145;asciilifeform;between phf's logtron, Framedragger's, and ben_vulpes's -- ~100% coverage. unlike, say, your own connection plus the particular fleanode box it may happen to be on. 1632543;1490460208;asciilifeform;likewise, phf's ( the linked logtron ) has back-reference links ( when a line is mentioned, you can go from it, to the mentions ) and other conveniences (search, for instance.) 1632544;1490460210;CompanionCube;realtime element + reading is good :) 1632545;1490460241;asciilifeform;!!up CompanionCube 1632546;1490460241;deedbot;CompanionCube voiced for 30 minutes. 1632547;1490460262;asciilifeform;for instance, it is a good habit to search for a topic in the logs, prior to asking after it. 1632548;1490478581;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/25/down-by-law/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Down by Law. 1632549;1490483510;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: mimisbrunnr down ? 1632550;1490486952;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/eFu4E/?raw=true 1632551;1490486952;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1632552;1490488785;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: aye, apparently. meanwhile resuscitated, i'll look into what happened later 1632553;1490488813;ben_vulpes;(just the web process) 1632554;1490491211;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/shinohais-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-huffers-fail-to-replicate-namecoin-just-a-tip-never-ceases-venezuela-still-poor-and-secsilbert-drama/ << Qntra - Shinohai's Shitcoin Roundup Xtend: Huffers Fail To Replicate Namecoin, "Just A Tip" Never Ceases, Venezuela Still Poor, And SEC/Silbert Drama 1632555;1490491351;*;shinohai thanks BingoBoingo for preserving "Shillbert" as always 1632556;1490491752;BingoBoingo;yw 1632557;1490497782;pete_dushenski;http://archive.is/tXONX << "The suspect arrested Thursday for a wave of bomb threats against Jewish Community Centers in the United States employed an array of technologies, including  Bitcoin and Google Voice, to make himself virtually untraceable for months […] Even the caller’s voice was anonymous—he used Spoofcard’s voice-changing option to make himself sound like a voice synthesizer imitating a 1632558;1490497784;pete_dushenski;woman. And rather than use a traceable credit card or PayPal, the perpetrator paid for his Spoofcard in Bitcoin—another dead end. […] SpoofCard and services like it have plenty of legitimate users, such as undercover cops […] "When requested, we [Spoofcard] comply quickly and responsibly with lawful requests from all levels of law enforcement, and we have built specific tools to prevent abuse.” 1632559;1490497787;pete_dushenski;hurr. 1632560;1490497910;pete_dushenski;kid is obv jewish. but when trump goes on the record saying the 'sudden rise in anti-semitism' is a hoax, which it is, every epithet in the old testament is thrown at him by the adl and their cronies at nyt. 1632561;1490497938;pete_dushenski;lo and behold, TRUMP IS RIGHT AGAIN. but do the haters recant ? hm ? 1632562;1490498775;pete_dushenski;aaaaan stan beat me once again to the punch on the news break. by two days! (bad pete, don't skim logs so loosely). but the spoofcard angle is at least novel, as a construction if nothing else. 1632563;1490499275;pete_dushenski;what appears to be a news story : https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware 1632564;1490500465;pete_dushenski;in other struggles, there's some butthurt gold in these comments : http://www.financialsamurai.com/scraping-by-on-500000-a-year-high-income-earners-struggling/#comments 1632565;1490500599;pete_dushenski;it's indeed very painful to come to terms with how poor you really are when you discover that folks making 10-20x what you are ARE ALSO POOR. certainly not as poorly positioned, but not rolling out of bed and into silk house robes at 10am on a tuesday either. sucks. 1632566;1490501393;asciilifeform;2-2.5x poorsalary ain't 'rich', pete_dushenski 1632567;1490501419;asciilifeform;esp when it's still a... salary 1632568;1490501425;asciilifeform;and not dividends 1632569;1490501444;pete_dushenski;don't tell me, tell other kids on 'financial samurai' 1632570;1490501478;asciilifeform;also i can't resist to ask.. pete_dushenski reads that rubbish habitually? wai? 1632571;1490501506;pete_dushenski;nah, just came across a link. never heard of the site before. 1632572;1490501553;asciilifeform;and iirc nyc is no longer king of bezzle 1632573;1490501578;asciilifeform;in shiticon valley -- 1m/y is grinding poverty 1632574;1490501639;pete_dushenski;this is but temporary. nyc and london will reign again. 1632575;1490501670;asciilifeform;y'mean londonabad 1632576;1490501676;BingoBoingo;I doubt it, NYC is rapidly turning into poor part of Mubai 1632577;1490501806;pete_dushenski;in other "not there yet"s, one for ben_vulpes and his dreams of automolandia : https://www.recode.net/2017/3/16/14938116/uber-travis-kalanick-self-driving-internal-metrics-slow-progress (summary, human intervention required more than once per mile on average. hurr!) ford nucleon has better chances of mass production. or maybe ben wants to bet again ? 1632578;1490501848;asciilifeform;reminds me, i dreamed that i was in a robotic car 1632579;1490501896;asciilifeform;was annoying, i knew it was taking me to a jail, tried various tricks to get out , or alternatively to crash it, but no dice 1632580;1490501917;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: rapidly eh ? how so ? last i checked 'supertall skinnies' were notwhere to be found in the brown box 1632581;1490501938;asciilifeform;there was a steering wheel, oddly, but rather like in a toy car, it was not connected to anything, just spun in place. 1632582;1490501945;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: had you watched minority report before bed ? 1632583;1490501949;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: NYC chose this path when they picked DeBlasio as their Trump 1632584;1490501959;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: nope 1632585;1490501989;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: how's that work again ? 1632586;1490502023;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: did you make it all the way to jail in the dream ? 1632587;1490502034;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: Well at some point in the name of libertard equalitit DeBlasio is bound to openly approve of open defecation 1632588;1490502037;pete_dushenski;or 'smash own brains' on partition 1632589;1490502048;asciilifeform;nope, woke up from road noises as always 1632590;1490502117;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: lol no one would notice if he did. city has stunk of rotting garbage for longer than we've been alive. summer is worst but even fall is no picnic. 1632591;1490502141;BingoBoingo;And how is that so different from Mumbai? 1632592;1490502142;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: maybe next time! 1632593;1490502197;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: you said 'rapidly turning into'. you're not backing that up if they've both always been the same. 1632594;1490502233;asciilifeform;hey pete_dushenski was it you who collected old watches ? 1632595;1490502269;pete_dushenski;more father but i have a couple. what's up ? 1632596;1490502276;asciilifeform;radium thread 1632597;1490502292;asciilifeform;( some time in last wk ) 1632598;1490502321;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629678 ? 1632599;1490502321;a111;Logged on 2017-03-20 18:36 asciilifeform: quite unrelatedly, asciilifeform went through own and relatives' dwellings with geiger counter and turned up one of those 'barbaric' radium-dialed clocks (zinc sulphide long ago decayed, so no light, but mighty gamma.) 1632600;1490502325;asciilifeform;apparently quite a few old timepieces ragingly gamma 1632601;1490502389;asciilifeform;quite enough to expose film, say. 1632602;1490502459;pete_dushenski;huh. but these were more used for clocks or wristwatches ? /me is no horological expert 1632603;1490502470;asciilifeform;both 1632604;1490502483;asciilifeform;at one time was ubiquitous, esp for nice watches. 1632605;1490502509;asciilifeform;and military equip. ( compasses, aircraft gauges ) 1632606;1490502563;asciilifeform;oh it'd seem that i neglected to say why i had the geiger around -- was hunting for a reason why a certain box of mine was ringing ecc alarms 1632607;1490502639;asciilifeform;( didn't find deathray hidden under the floor, no. but also ruled out bad drams, so the mystery -- remained ) 1632608;1490502664;pete_dushenski;oldest (and higest end) wristwatch i ever wore was 1940s tudor. wore for maybe 2-3 years. no facial tumours detected in that period, thankfully. 1632609;1490502689;asciilifeform;didja wear it on yer face?! 1632610;1490502697;*;asciilifeform pictures this 1632611;1490502704;pete_dushenski;lol how else ? 1632612;1490502718;pete_dushenski;i had a skinny neck as a kid, what. 1632613;1490502728;asciilifeform;lul 1632614;1490502762;pete_dushenski;https://lovecraftianscience.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/radium-girls-3_videomedicine-com.jpg 1632615;1490502802;asciilifeform;hey BingoBoingo ^ one for your files. 1632616;1490503371;pete_dushenski;https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/17077598_816066928547618_8162672392150188032_n.jpg << very similar to tudor of my youth. i don't recall the numbers or hashes being illuminated at night now that i think about it. maaaaybe the hands though. 1632617;1490504093;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E269ED3F6BF617E4840820B3A677A315A78009BAEA615F1A02820421529906B1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1361...0843 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.4.38.212 (ssh-rsa key from 213.4.38.212 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mxfm1.tecnosis.net. ES) 1632618;1490504093;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E269ED3F6BF617E4840820B3A677A315A78009BAEA615F1A02820421529906B1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1586...6513 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '213.4.38.212 (ssh-rsa key from 213.4.38.212 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mxfm1.tecnosis.net. ES) 1632619;1490506273;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C6FC7DED69B99B24B93291229330E24B89BA2A9F99F0D580578ED8AA36C4FFC4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1530...5243 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '208.82.112.76 (ssh-rsa key from 208.82.112.76 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (D052704C.ptr.provps.com. US CA) 1632620;1490506273;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C6FC7DED69B99B24B93291229330E24B89BA2A9F99F0D580578ED8AA36C4FFC4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1652...6023 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '208.82.112.76 (ssh-rsa key from 208.82.112.76 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (D052704C.ptr.provps.com. US CA) 1632621;1490511120;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/fake-news-interest-in-jewish-center-safety-drops-precipitously-after-arrest-of-second-suspect/ << Qntra - Fake News Interest In Jewish Center Safety Drops Precipitously After Arrest Of Second Suspect 1632622;1490536920;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632619 >> http://208.82.112.76 >> 'When we launched the first boutique portfolio of Argentine wines in 1999, we never imagined we’d be at the forefront of a wine revolution...' 1632623;1490536920;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 05:31 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C6FC7DED69B99B24B93291229330E24B89BA2A9F99F0D580578ED8AA36C4FFC4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1530...5243 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '208.82.112.76 (ssh-rsa key from 208.82.112.76 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (D052704C.ptr.provps.com. US CA) 1632624;1490536973;asciilifeform;^ given vps , probably entire customer base -- equally debianized. 1632625;1490539697;hanbot;!!up mp_en_viaje 1632626;1490539698;deedbot;mp_en_viaje voiced for 30 minutes. 1632627;1490539704;hanbot;hola 1632628;1490539708;mp_en_viaje;ah hallelukja! 1632629;1490539711;mp_en_viaje;thanks hanbot 1632630;1490539723;mp_en_viaje;nobody ups noobs anymore DO THEY!!11 1632631;1490539768;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632388 << this is actually a very fine statement of the problem. missing parts, expensive to build prosthetic for. quite exactly. 1632632;1490539768;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 20:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632355 << orlol discussed this, and it was 100% true, 'homo americanus' has some very serious damage that is very expensive to build prosthesis for -- he has no family , no friends, no one will lend him money other than at extortionate rates, has no one alive whom he could live with in small hut, 5 to 10 sq. metres, without killing one another 1632633;1490539868;mp_en_viaje;anyway, the striking thing a bout the afghani dwelling is that it's not a hut. it's a tower, if need be essentialized to a pillar, but basically a machinegun pillbox. AROUND IT like around the medieval castle the women's items, huts and bread ovens and children/goat/pig stys are build. but the dwelling is basically this donjon. 1632634;1490539989;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632392 << in order : forged metal items ; penicillin and similar chemicals ; some plastics. 1632635;1490539989;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 20:49 asciilifeform: also where does the 1k figure come from ? for what does a smallholder-farmer even need money. 1632636;1490540032;*;hanbot is interested in what constitutes this 'similar chemicals' category 1632637;1490540104;hanbot;similar how? 1632638;1490540114;mp_en_viaje;hanbot, there\s an entire list of medicine pre us becoming a thing. 1632639;1490540161;mp_en_viaje;similar in that they're not covered by "patents" in the usg misstatement of the concept ; similar in that they were originally produced by one man in his handmade lab glass ; similar in that they cost a quarter a yearly dose and solve an actual problem 1632640;1490540184;asciilifeform;oh hey mp_en_viaje 1632641;1490540195;mp_en_viaje;compare eg antipolomyelitis vaccine, which saves ~5% of the population from being unable to locomote ; with ineptitudes like the recent vaccines which do nothing. 1632642;1490540198;mp_en_viaje;hola asciilifeform 1632643;1490540238;mp_en_viaje;hanbot, i could build you a list, but not right now. about 2/3 of the "who list o fessential medicines" say, or alternatively the inventory list of provincial hospital in 3rd world. 1632644;1490540241;hanbot;mp_en_viaje wouldja say it's as simple as setting a cutoff date? 1632645;1490540249;mp_en_viaje;just about yes. 1632646;1490540289;mp_en_viaje;take rivanol, for instance. fabulous for smallhold farmer's wounds, if one day he cuts himself. that sorta item. 1632647;1490540293;asciilifeform;hanbot: it's approx what was in a sov pharmacy. 1632648;1490540306;mp_en_viaje;~you~ could fucking cook it in your kitchen. but not afghani huswif. 1632649;1490540317;hanbot;ah okay 1632650;1490540321;asciilifeform;quinine, say. 1632651;1490540321;mp_en_viaje;yeah, minus perhaps barbiturates and such. 1632652;1490540324;mp_en_viaje;right. 1632653;1490540452;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632393 << so they're gonna actually split off eh ? 1632654;1490540452;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 21:16 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in prbland, https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-March/013766.html 1632655;1490540500;asciilifeform;as soon as they have with what, such that doesn't crash 5 min. in... 1632656;1490540522;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632398 << bout half. 1632657;1490540522;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 21:23 asciilifeform: iirc he's most of what's left of prb in terms of working hands, neh 1632658;1490540543;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, this was re the "our new v 13 nodes will not accept blocks relayed by trb" 1632659;1490540584;asciilifeform;aah 1632660;1490540597;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632405 << necessarily true, what he says, if not necessarily practical (yet). it has to be :finite crate. 1632661;1490540597;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 21:27 asciilifeform: waiwat 1632662;1490540606;asciilifeform;iirc prb doesn't even maintain a socket with trb , starting with 11 or so 1632663;1490540628;asciilifeform;( jurov might have details, he had some proprietary thing of his own that required a prb in the loop, complained of massive headaches ) 1632664;1490540633;mp_en_viaje;basically a novel vector of imperial attack seems to be this "let's take republican items and ~EXPAND~ the downstream so that siberian river attack is then feasible". 1632665;1490540652;mp_en_viaje;(for the unfamiliar, siberian rivers flow the wrong way, melt at source before they melt downstream, causes some problems.) 1632666;1490540656;shinohai;Buen viaje mp, espero k estas disfrutando! >.> 1632667;1490540663;mp_en_viaje;si si! 1632668;1490540678;mp_en_viaje;will put up some pix later 1632669;1490540683;mp_en_viaje;prolly tomorrow actually. 1632670;1490540687;shinohai;nice 1632671;1490540711;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: expand plox re 'expand the downstream' 1632672;1490540720;*;shinohai hopes they include mp's wonderful ornithological pics ..... 1632673;1490540720;mp_en_viaje;ok : 1632674;1490540749;mp_en_viaje;alf designs system whereby box A and box B are osmehow used. they are correctly designed to tandem : bitwise identical. 1632675;1490540752;hanbot;oh hey shinohai's got the spanisher txtspeek. i'll hafta study 1632676;1490540773;mp_en_viaje;wuille comes along, "expands" for the africa box A. now the design is broken, in that item in B will correspond to both a and a' 1632677;1490540804;asciilifeform;ain't that prb for years nao? 1632678;1490540806;mp_en_viaje;hanbot, hard to compete with the future baron titsbare eh ? gotta talk to lotta sluts. 1632679;1490540821;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yes. just giving it some systematic summarization. 1632680;1490540833;asciilifeform;say, for instance, kako's 'trb is broken, won't push my p2sholade' 1632681;1490540834;shinohai;The heathen apps I'm forced to use in such situations hanbot, you have no idea. 1632682;1490540835;mp_en_viaje;the siberian river attack. FOR AFRICA! 1632683;1490540868;asciilifeform;'FUCKGOATS is broken, won't plug into my shitphone' 1632684;1490540870;asciilifeform;etc. 1632685;1490540881;asciilifeform;never really seemed like an 'attack' to me. 1632686;1490540884;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-27#1354404 << fucking offense bs. 1632687;1490540884;a111;Logged on 2015-12-27 17:38 asciilifeform: 'It is about sending a strong message. I think we may need to start an accreditation scheme for Bitcoin-consensus compliant wallets and services. Through code signing and use of multisig, we can even distinguish transactions made by compliant wallets and non-compliant wallets, and have pools not mine them (or wallets refuse to send to known-non-compliant wallets).' 1632688;1490540901;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: iirc above was from the mit derps 1632689;1490540911;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, no but the idea here is for the "expansion" to be ulterior of the item it attacks and sold as an "improvement" 1632690;1490540915;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, yup. 1632691;1490540926;asciilifeform;this had a name, 'embrace & extinguish' 1632692;1490540929;asciilifeform;pioneered by microshit 1632693;1490540952;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632408 << no, it is actually theoretically solid. quite as solid as the stuff we deem good crypto. 1632694;1490540952;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 21:28 trinque: I expect that the Snore signature is easily collided by some means; obviously I'm not sitting here with the exploit in hand. 1632695;1490540958;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, aha exactly. 1632696;1490541082;mp_en_viaje;http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true << holy shit we need better logging omfg what is this even. 1632697;1490541099;mp_en_viaje;thanks for reporting TomServo x.x 1632698;1490541380;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-25#1632523 << actually reorgs fail a lot. 1632699;1490541380;a111;Logged on 2017-03-25 15:15 asciilifeform: my current understanding is that reorg can only fail if there is a catastrophic problem with db 1632700;1490541584;hanbot;!!up mp_en_viaje 1632701;1490541584;deedbot;mp_en_viaje voiced for 30 minutes. 1632702;1490541586;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632567 << this being the controlling element. 1632703;1490541586;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 04:10 asciilifeform: esp when it's still a... salary 1632704;1490541602;mp_en_viaje;o hey, voiced just in time lol. ty. 1632705;1490541640;hanbot;:) 1632706;1490541642;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632576 << yeh, from all i hear nyc is a really sad hole these days. 1632707;1490541642;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 04:14 BingoBoingo: I doubt it, NYC is rapidly turning into poor part of Mubai 1632708;1490541757;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632587 << yep. i can almost see his retarded face while he shits somewhere on the pavements of astoria. "see, this is great." happy subhumans all around, and his pained sad "smile" hovering over them. 1632709;1490541757;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 04:20 BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well at some point in the name of libertard equalitit DeBlasio is bound to openly approve of open defecation 1632710;1490541788;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632698 << zero instances in my trb logs to date, mp_en_viaje 1632711;1490541788;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 15:16 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-25#1632523 << actually reorgs fail a lot. 1632712;1490541799;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632589 << i woke up to birds singing alfie. be jealous. 1632713;1490541799;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 04:20 asciilifeform: nope, woke up from road noises as always 1632714;1490541864;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632693 << as solid as ecc in general 1632715;1490541864;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 15:09 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632408 << no, it is actually theoretically solid. quite as solid as the stuff we deem good crypto. 1632716;1490541870;asciilifeform;which is to say, wholly unknown. 1632717;1490541881;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, mmm, on contemplation the issue might just be mp logotron reports "failed reorg" when the purporting-to-generate-reorg block failed to actually verify. old prb/trb don't. 1632718;1490541883;asciilifeform;and the 'infinite sigs in finite box' thing is demonstrably nonsense. 1632719;1490541891;mp_en_viaje;aha. 1632720;1490541893;asciilifeform;mp_en_viaje: i guessed this, from your statement. 1632721;1490541898;asciilifeform;(re reorgs) 1632722;1490541924;mp_en_viaje;yeah. 1632723;1490541932;asciilifeform;classical trb simply throws those out, as malformed rubbish in ProcessBlock() 1632724;1490541961;asciilifeform;( http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1337 << subj ) 1632725;1490541971;mp_en_viaje;yeah. i was always very suspicious of all reorgs. ie, if shit should hit hte fan, you'd expect it there. 1632726;1490541995;mp_en_viaje;this suspicion has been well borne historically as well. 1632727;1490542014;asciilifeform;i actually spent a good chunk of past 2 days making sense of the reorg logic 1632728;1490542028;asciilifeform;it is braindamaged in a great many ways 1632729;1490542057;asciilifeform;( for instance, enemy can quite easily fill your disk with well-formed but forkleted blocks -- they are never removed ) 1632730;1490542068;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632607 << the stain! 1632731;1490542068;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 04:30 asciilifeform: ( didn't find deathray hidden under the floor, no. but also ruled out bad drams, so the mystery -- remained ) 1632732;1490542074;asciilifeform;aha!lol 1632733;1490542085;asciilifeform;( reorg in trb is also ~ruinously~ expensive ) 1632734;1490542092;mp_en_viaje;asciilifeform, aha. it just you know, in the first 1k hours of auditing this it stuck up as the first point of failure. 2013 news. 1632735;1490542239;mp_en_viaje;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632622 <<< yeah, the morti di fame revolution. how to endure hunger while pretending to miami-ness 1632736;1490542239;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 14:02 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632619 >> http://208.82.112.76 >> 'When we launched the first boutique portfolio of Argentine wines in 1999, we never imagined we’d be at the forefront of a wine revolution...' 1632737;1490542270;mp_en_viaje;o hey, check me out, all caught up with the logs and shit! nice. 1632738;1490542316;asciilifeform;did we ever do the bicameral ('nursery' vs 'adult') tx db thread ? 1632739;1490542321;asciilifeform;i can't seem to find it 1632740;1490542338;mp_en_viaje;i think only by unspoken reference among graybeards. 1632741;1490542360;asciilifeform;idea being (and currently in 'nqb' asciilifeform is experimenting with the proportions) it is quite stupid to do reorg ops of open-endedly large size. 1632742;1490542404;mp_en_viaje;open ended anything is bad idea 1632743;1490542420;asciilifeform;realistically a reorg affects, what, few dozen blocks. and that's if martians land. 1632744;1490542442;mp_en_viaje;"i want to add two numbers" "how large iwll they be ?" "i odn't know" "please go back to the end of the line, computing 101 door." 1632745;1490542484;asciilifeform;the other open seekrit re classical trb : and afaik applies equally to various prbs : there is no means whereby to introduce a martian reorg consisting of >1 block, such that it will actually get processed. 1632746;1490542495;asciilifeform;the very first block would have to outweigh the cumulative work. 1632747;1490542495;mp_en_viaje;(the problem, to be clear, ~isnt~ that the fellow wants two streams mixed, but that he calls two streams "numbres". head clearly broken in undegrad places.) 1632748;1490542504;asciilifeform;^ 1632749;1490542539;asciilifeform;to elaborate : there is a serious disjunction between how reorg is supposed to work, on paper, and how it actually works. 1632750;1490542563;mp_en_viaje;yes. 1632751;1490542569;asciilifeform;and, worst of all, it relies on ~local~ phenomena 1632752;1490542573;mp_en_viaje;come to think abou this : fine topic for a loper-os monograph, asciilifeform 1632753;1490542580;mp_en_viaje;it shouldn't be dribbled in the log. 1632754;1490542581;mp_en_viaje;write it out. 1632755;1490542582;asciilifeform;i.e. the orphaned blocks a particular node ~has seen~. 1632756;1490542586;asciilifeform;i'ma have to write it out. 1632757;1490542589;mp_en_viaje;yes. 1632758;1490542599;asciilifeform;because i hit against it while laboriously replicating the original logic in nqb, 1632759;1490542605;asciilifeform;and then realizing that it is not logic at all, it is liquishit 1632760;1490542627;mp_en_viaje;an' with that boys an' girls i'll be off. i'll be back on main mondayish. take it easy! 1632761;1490542635;asciilifeform;enjoy mp_en_viaje 1632762;1490544403;shinohai;!~later tell http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8tpnw/?raw=true 1632763;1490544403;jhvh1;shinohai: (later tell ) -- Tells the next time is in seen. can contain wildcard characters, and the first matching nick will be given the note. 1632764;1490544406;shinohai;shit 1632765;1490544413;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8tpnw/?raw=true 1632766;1490544413;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1632767;1490544587;asciilifeform;in other noose, 1632768;1490544588;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c3dCR/?raw=true 1632769;1490544604;asciilifeform;or, hm, these get gc'd, don't they. 1632770;1490544611;asciilifeform;'Hello asciilifeform I see on coin.dance/nodes , The Real Bitcoin is listed with the 'Emergent Consensus' feature tag. Could you tell me if that's accurate - will you follow a HF to > 1MB , and could you tell me anything about how it's implemented in TRB ? Thx!' 1632771;1490544685;Framedragger;!$getarchive http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c3dCR/?raw=true 1632772;1490544685;scriba;Previously archived URL: http://archive.is/EvWCr (this was archived by scriba: no) 1632773;1490544687;Framedragger;^ should work 1632774;1490544691;asciilifeform;oh neato. 1632775;1490544730;Framedragger;oh shite, says 'nothing found'. could it be that the ID had already been used long ago? i suppose so 1632776;1490544787;Framedragger;(scriba should have an option to force rearchiving i suppose. it does tell me if it fails to submit to archive (if archive.is does not return 'ok'), but in this case as far as archive.is is concerned, it's been properly archived; the fact that the contens say 'wotpaste: nothing found' is not its problem.) 1632777;1490544864;Framedragger;(not sure. will check later) 1632778;1490545270;shinohai;I'm gonna bring back Classic since I failed at the whole phoundation thing! https://t.co/lkp7gyYWsR 1632779;1490545391;asciilifeform;'We will implement replay protection' 1632780;1490545407;asciilifeform;i'm still waiting for something like a coherent explanation of how that's to work. 1632781;1490545456;*;shinohai wants to know who "we" is precisely .... 1632782;1490545492;asciilifeform;let's say gavin writes a forked client that incorporates the entirety of traditional bitcoin, and keeps both blockchains around, simply to refuse to spend any output that's been already spent somewhere in actual bitcoinland. 1632783;1490545503;asciilifeform;this -- works. but the hose has TWO ends 1632784;1490545541;asciilifeform;you can still spend in actual bitcoinland, what has been spend in shitcoinland -- bitcoin does not give half a fuck re what happens in the megablox 1632785;1490545544;asciilifeform;that it rejects. 1632786;1490545554;asciilifeform;*has been spent 1632787;1490545568;asciilifeform;perhaps this is a fairly obvious inference but bears restating for the l0gz. 1632788;1490545705;asciilifeform;there is not a programmatic pill against http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis . 1632789;1490545776;shinohai;^ nope, and handily Buttfinex is apparently gonna list it making it convenient to dump. 1632790;1490547437;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/dying-america-firm-nearly-robbed-with-own-merchandise-as-vultures-swarm/ << Qntra - Dying America Firm Nearly Robbed With Own Merchandise As Vultures Swarm 1632791;1490548767;danielpbarron;!!v 1CDCB0A3AE33F114C191B8A0BF5802C4F0E4BA56BF60D7363184CCBF0E2D6C9C 1632792;1490548767;deedbot;danielpbarron rated lobbes 3 << hosts official Eulora log and auction bot 1632793;1490548917;danielpbarron;!!v D0051FFE64AE2135F05688E3D4384FE7138F9676FB43DDB16C02A91D71FE70E6 1632794;1490548918;deedbot;danielpbarron rated peter__ 1 << probably heard of Eulora via my visit to some derpy hacker channel 1632795;1490548983;danielpbarron;!!v E9FAE05889B0DE5FC6B1C5E3D5956C0558CC7AFBBF65784FCA889C855A516F86 1632796;1490548983;deedbot;danielpbarron rated tobi_ 1 << probably heard of Eulora via my visit to some derpy hacker channel 1632797;1490549344;danielpbarron;!!v 474EB1F5F9087B778E7DD7304878E4705C3A6B3D094572D2BCC6CD96FB6F51C8 1632798;1490549345;deedbot;danielpbarron rated Framedragger 2 << hosts the official trilema log and is repsonsible for the epic ssh key phucktoring 1632799;1490549366;Framedragger;(ftr my log is not the 'official' log) 1632800;1490549378;danielpbarron;is it not? you sure about that? 1632801;1490549401;danielpbarron;phf's may be the more widely used but it's my understanding yours is technically the official 1632802;1490549411;Framedragger;at the very least the definite article 'the' wouldn't be the one i use 1632803;1490549416;danielpbarron;well i would 1632804;1490549536;Framedragger;to reframe into a pragmatic context, my log doesn't and won't for the time being (busy af) have search. as regards its formal status, i don't know man, but i'll just keep maintaining it :) 1632805;1490549650;asciilifeform;iirc mircea_popescu's headache-inducing abolition of the short (!s etc) commands, was specifically about formally canceling there being such a thing as 'official log' 1632806;1490549699;asciilifeform;incidentally : asciilifeform's muscle memory never recovered, still has to look up the commands ~every~ ~single~ ~fucking~ time. 1632807;1490549709;asciilifeform;search, later-tell, etc. 1632808;1490556107;mod6;<+mp_en_viaje> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true << holy shit we need better logging omfg what is this even. << yeah, true. 1632809;1490556141;mod6;<+mp_en_viaje> thanks for reporting TomServo x.x << Indeed, let us know if you see something similar. 1632810;1490556188;mod6;!~later tell TomServo Are you still getting blocks and have moved beyond 458051 or whatever? 1632811;1490556189;jhvh1;mod6: The operation succeeded. 1632812;1490557635;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/ceo-elizabeth-holmes-of-theranos-please-dont-sue-have-my-shares/ << Qntra - CEO Elizabeth Holmes Of Theranos: Please Don't Sue, Have My Shares 1632813;1490565883;shinohai;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C72_3siW0AQGwu1.jpg <<< continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632778 "I only shared it with ONE person" 1632814;1490565883;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 16:21 shinohai: I'm gonna bring back Classic since I failed at the whole phoundation thing! https://t.co/lkp7gyYWsR 1632815;1490565905;shinohai;"I'll find out who did this IF IT'S THE LAST THING I DO!!!!!" 1632816;1490591589;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D4DD1FE180286E6800B9362816C9657DABDB6ACB956D7262DD895E553BCAD985 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1379...7783 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '216.236.226.151 (ssh-rsa key from 216.236.226.151 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mincamlog001.226.236.216.in-addr.arpa. US MA) 1632817;1490591589;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D4DD1FE180286E6800B9362816C9657DABDB6ACB956D7262DD895E553BCAD985 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1421...8827 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '216.236.226.151 (ssh-rsa key from 216.236.226.151 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (mincamlog001.226.236.216.in-addr.arpa. US MA) 1632818;1490613907;Framedragger;asciilifeform: ack! got yer package after customs cleared it. visually looks intact and in good order. (won't be able to test it till ~weekend) 1632819;1490613917;Framedragger;looks sexy as fuck 1632820;1490624339;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/61C667313A58BE2F385F0082A7EB111EE31843578EBC8EDEA0DCD02B6EE0AE01 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1774...0739 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '202.4.237.241 (ssh-rsa key from 202.4.237.241 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown AU NSW) 1632821;1490624339;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/61C667313A58BE2F385F0082A7EB111EE31843578EBC8EDEA0DCD02B6EE0AE01 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1652...0453 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '202.4.237.241 (ssh-rsa key from 202.4.237.241 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown AU NSW) 1632822;1490627845;asciilifeform;congrats Framedragger 1632823;1490632798;asciilifeform;in other 'tv rafts', http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/reorgs.log.txt 1632824;1490633301;asciilifeform;meanwhile, daniel bernstein ( of the smooth-parts-of-integers algo used in phuctor, and 1,001 other useful mathematical works ) is headed for gasenwagen: https://eindhoven.cr.yp.to/false-statements-by-henry-de-valence.txt 1632825;1490633543;asciilifeform;( peanut gallery, re above : http://archive.is/fP67K ) 1632826;1490633556;asciilifeform;'From my perspective you're making a choice to be on the wrong side of history.' 1632827;1490633557;*;shinohai is unable to connect to above link :/ 1632828;1490633564;asciilifeform;'I don't really care about any details of @hdevalence's account. You made a mistake enabling & defending Jacob. Just apologize.' 1632829;1490633565;shinohai;thx 1632830;1490633587;asciilifeform;shinohai: http://archive.is/9zD8D << original 1632831;1490633593;shinohai;thx again 1632832;1490634271;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/118822CC63354841ED999161FFAAE67B517F0D05785260D22C83479D5EC54239 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1393...2693 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.120.1.50 (ssh-rsa key from 212.120.1.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown MK 38) 1632833;1490634271;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/118822CC63354841ED999161FFAAE67B517F0D05785260D22C83479D5EC54239 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1514...8603 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.120.1.50 (ssh-rsa key from 212.120.1.50 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown MK 38) 1632834;1490637057;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4584DB8F73C51C3DEA7606B64D241D21A52167120F0390F9F44C043C334C30F7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1477...6009 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '203.82.252.146 (ssh-rsa key from 203.82.252.146 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown HK) 1632835;1490637057;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4584DB8F73C51C3DEA7606B64D241D21A52167120F0390F9F44C043C334C30F7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1684...0033 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '203.82.252.146 (ssh-rsa key from 203.82.252.146 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown HK) 1632836;1490637474;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632826 << by the way rich felker is the author of musl 1632837;1490637474;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 16:52 asciilifeform: 'From my perspective you're making a choice to be on the wrong side of history.' 1632838;1490637485;asciilifeform;phf: now that's interesting 1632839;1490637506;asciilifeform;i do wonder, original author ? or its leah 1632840;1490637600;phf;pretty sure original, EWONTFIX guy, https://ewontfix.com/about/ 1632841;1490637822;phf;https://twitter.com/RichFelker/status/846336262852227072 etc. 1632842;1490637840;asciilifeform;sad. 1632843;1490637973;asciilifeform;' Rich Felker Retweeted Adora Cheung‏ @nolimits Mar 23 Last month another investor asked a female founder/CEO to search for a white male to replace her as CEO. Also uninvited.' 1632844;1490638019;asciilifeform;also buncha hanno boeck reposts. 1632845;1490638120;asciilifeform;'Eric Schmidt says YouTube’s algos need rewriting to make extremist content “harder to find” to solve brand safety' didjaknow. 1632846;1490638164;phf;i wonder if that's also him, http://www.phayul.com/news/tools/print.aspx?id=7786&t=1 https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/445103631558139904/7BMAaNQO.png http://www.phayul.com/images/news/articles/040928122838MC.jpg 1632847;1490638199;phf;oh yeah, youtube's "extremist content" is the hot subject of past few days 1632848;1490638351;phf;https://twitter.com/cszabla/status/846079478702977024 1632849;1490638464;asciilifeform;'Rich Felker Retweeted Jessica Rose‏ @jesslynnrose Mar 17 Conference organisers! If you have YouTube comments enabled on your talk videos, you need to keep an eye on moderating them. Forever.' 1632850;1490638481;asciilifeform;'Assange has resorted to blackmailing tech companies with 0days.' didjaknow. 1632851;1490638518;asciilifeform;'Rich Felker Retweeted Melissa @0xabad1dea Mar 17 it is really morally messed up that my disability payments from the govt are directly based on what my salary was before I got sick' 1632852;1490638748;trinque;as far as state religions go, what a snore. 1632853;1490638756;asciilifeform;'Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 10 "Literal nazi" is not a protected class you can't fire someone for being. So fire them.' 1632854;1490638775;asciilifeform;'If you're spewing off BS about "diversity" and "empowering women" while direct-depositing $1000s into nazis' bank accts every 2 weeks... ...then you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.' didjaknow. 1632855;1490638794;trinque;where's the pyramid corpse-pile? where's the blasting folks to their deaths in shoddy rockets? 1632856;1490638820;asciilifeform;it's where people left their balls, trinque . 1632857;1490638822;asciilifeform;in the distant past. 1632858;1490638859;asciilifeform;instead, we have : https://twitter.com/CoralineAda/status/839882746906435584 1632859;1490638880;asciilifeform;'If you’re not willing to remove a toxic contributor from your project, you are accepting toxic behavior as a cultural norm.' 1632860;1490638983;trinque;thatsapenis.gif 1632861;1490639257;asciilifeform;to my very great surprise, no megablox propaganda in there. at least in past few mo. of posts. 1632862;1490639264;asciilifeform;i thought it was mandatory for boecks. 1632863;1490639275;asciilifeform;or possibly i simply missed it. 1632864;1490639290;phf;megablox? 1632865;1490639307;asciilifeform;all of the various 'bitcoin must stretch to fit africa' schemes 1632866;1490639344;phf;oh, that's different group though. it's the "girl hacker" community 1632867;1490639370;shinohai;Good God is OSS full of women with penises nau ? 1632868;1490639395;*;shinohai "women" used loosely there 1632869;1490639540;asciilifeform;'baybe doll‏ @Baybe_Doll Built a NFC reader for my NFC nails using an @arduino and an @adafruit PN532 for @BodyHackingCon' 1632870;1490639554;asciilifeform;and with that, my dosimeter is maxed out, i'ma bbl, need fresh air. 1632871;1490639717;ben_vulpes;i barfed at "this is wrong and teaches children all kinds of toxic ideas about class and judging other people" 1632872;1490639776;ben_vulpes;apparently children shouldn't worry about making judgements about the world. or maybe just some subset of the world. it's unclear, but i think it would be grand if we all skipped along thinking that everything is hunky-dory because who am i to judge? 1632873;1490639962;danielpbarron;the old adage "tits or gtfo" still applies. assume everyone on "the internet" is a dude if no pictures provided 1632874;1490640099;danielpbarron;a friend of mine is dealing with social workers trying to take his kids away, in part -- i think, because his oldest has been repeating some of the things i taught him to his teachers in school 1632875;1490640158;trinque;should've told him not to talk to the man first. 1632876;1490640190;danielpbarron;including the hilarious comparison between female cats in heat and pubescent girls, complete with illustrative butt-shaking dance 1632877;1490640482;*;ben_vulpes caught a caning from the girl of all people for talking to the man recently 1632878;1490640498;ben_vulpes;"have you forgotten your own house rules? NEVER TALK TO COPS" 1632879;1490640524;ben_vulpes;not teaching children about cps is a great way to get them taken away. 1632880;1490640620;danielpbarron;i suppose the "everything you say ~will~ be used against you" thing also applies to what the kid says. should he be instructed to remain silent if they ever try to do one of those one-on-one interviews with him? 1632881;1490640631;ben_vulpes;"i want my lawyer" 1632882;1490640655;danielpbarron;hah i actually taught him that one many years ago. kid needs a refresher course 1632883;1490640666;ben_vulpes;"child, they will twist anything you say into a crime to take you away from me." 1632884;1490640874;ben_vulpes;the days of "cops and firefighters are your friends!" are looong fucking over. 1632885;1490640896;ben_vulpes;everyone even tangentially involved with the state is a "mandatory reporter", aka fucking narc. 1632886;1490640963;ben_vulpes;far better odds of getting help just knocking on random doors and stopping passers-by exhibiting a modicum of class than one is from a cop. 1632887;1490641016;ben_vulpes;moreover, this is why reading class signaling is a crucial skill for children. what, are they to ask for help from the haggard crone sitting outside the bodega in a wheelchair? get real 1632888;1490642537;trinque;danielpbarron: or flip the script on them 1632889;1490642616;trinque;kids take down teachers with the SJW nonsense all the time 1632890;1490642903;ben_vulpes;can also attempt a mircea_popescu, and go after the cps officer in question personally for making shit up 1632891;1490643115;asciilifeform;as ben_vulpes knows well, in usa bureaucrats have personal immunity for ~everything they do on the clock (unless they get purged by the party, in which case they become liable for anything and everything, but this helps you 0 ) 1632892;1490643152;asciilifeform;the 'go after' would have to be -- with an army. 1632893;1490645574;ben_vulpes;malice and negligence can put a hole below the waterline of immunity. and cps settles cases regularly. 1632894;1490649653;asciilifeform;achtung, s.nsa customers! 1632895;1490649673;asciilifeform;last outstanding FUCKGOATS shipped today. 1632896;1490653537;doppler;how many were made altogether? 1632897;1490657698;BingoBoingo;N, where N > 102 units disclosed by purchasers 1632898;1490658474;asciilifeform;^ quite correct. 1632899;1490658781;asciilifeform;doppler: FUCKGOATS is still in stock and available, if that's what you wanted to learn. 1632900;1490662351;doppler;very nice. yes, i was curious about both. 1632901;1490666049;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, anyone know this d00d? : http://lucian.mogosanu.ro/about 1632902;1490666061;asciilifeform;( maybe mircea_popescu knows ? ) 1632903;1490666090;phf;you're from moscow? you know my friend Vadim? 1632904;1490666257;asciilifeform;lolfair 1632905;1490666407;asciilifeform;in practice, however, i often find that folx who read my www, are one or two graph hops apart, typically. 1632906;1490666455;phf;in practice last two times i was asked that, i knew the vadim etc. in question. it's still a funny question tho 1632907;1490666473;asciilifeform;(it isn't advertised on billboards, or in the times, and usually people find it by having face rubbed in it by friend) 1632908;1490666483;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3DA088849C3665FAB347A74837EB23F3B1FBB00665869A01035981D25E191ACA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1709...7059 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.185.249 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.185.249 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (app01.influxmedia.com. US MO) 1632909;1490666483;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3DA088849C3665FAB347A74837EB23F3B1FBB00665869A01035981D25E191ACA << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1472...9239 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.185.249 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.185.249 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (app01.influxmedia.com. US MO) 1632910;1490666534;asciilifeform;'influxmedia.com is almost here! Upload your website to get started.' followed by 'admin panel' link, and 'dreamhost'. 1632911;1490666544;asciilifeform;not even born yet, but already debianized. 1632912;1490670634;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/0JQmQ 1632913;1490671062;TomServo;Ahoy, sorry for the delayed response and any confusion caused by pasting 'tail -f .bitcoin/debug.log | grep height' output rather than full debugs. 1632914;1490671113;TomServo;mod6: No more blocks. Stuck at 458052 for a few days now. Restarted once so far. Still have 3 peers. 1632915;1490671299;trinque;TomServo: no problems upping now? 1632916;1490671322;TomServo;trinque: Aside from my syntax flailing? No. Thank you. 1632917;1490671332;trinque;lel, good deal. 1632918;1490672894;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: 'The Left has won far more dirty civil wars and insurgent conflicts than the Right has won. There are a host of reasons for this, but most notable is the aversion, on the Right, to give up the security of law-and-order. ' << tru! 1632919;1490672906;asciilifeform;and pretty great piece, imho, overall. 1632920;1490672928;asciilifeform;sums up asciilifeform's pov on the rancher fizzle revolt etc. 1632921;1490673500;trinque;It’s not going to be armies, in pretty uniforms, fighting pitched, conventional battles. It’s going to be a matter of assassination, sabotage, hit-and-run raids, targeting ideological leadership figures, enemy families, etc. << I doubt this. Where are these leadership figures? 1632922;1490673557;trinque;the most crippling of the day's mental disorders is narcissism. they, no matter which they, aren't going to follow *anyone*. 1632923;1490673637;trinque;and obviously I'm not calling leadership a matter of humility. the narcissism is all through the ranks. 1632924;1490673662;trinque;these fuckers are going out tweeting their molotovs as a matter of social signaling 1632925;1490673698;trinque;thing's gonna smolder, not explode. 1632926;1490673769;mod6;asciilifeform: I wonder iTomServo might try cutting off the latest blk#####.dat file? thoughts? 1632927;1490673796;mod6;*if TomServo 1632928;1490673944;asciilifeform;mod6: to unwedge? nope. the tx index will be out of sync with the block db, and you get soup 1632929;1490673963;mod6;yeah. :( 1632930;1490673970;asciilifeform;now, to slice it up to see wtf is even ~in~ the tip of his train -- yes! 1632931;1490674001;mod6;using blkcut? that might be worthwhile 1632932;1490674029;asciilifeform;dumpblock also worx 1632933;1490674066;asciilifeform;dump currentheight, currentheight-1, ..., a dozen, say. 1632934;1490674068;mod6;ah, yeah thats better. we don't need 69,000 blocks. just the last, probabaly 20. 1632935;1490674079;mod6;or ya, 12 or whatever. 1632936;1490674105;asciilifeform;btw i was thinking about a command, 1632937;1490674138;asciilifeform;say, 'dumpblockhashes', eats an N, dumps sha512 of each of last N blocks known 1632938;1490674162;asciilifeform;(of ~blocks~, whole, not shitoshi's idiot header thing) 1632939;1490674175;mod6;ah, ok. thought you meant the header. 1632940;1490674186;asciilifeform;this'd let you quickly compare the leading train of two nodes 1632941;1490674193;mod6;getting the sha512 of the entire bytes of a block seems useful 1632942;1490674197;asciilifeform;see reorg shenanigans with naked eye 1632943;1490674222;asciilifeform;mod6: it'd be a fairly trivial mod of dumpblock . 1632944;1490674234;mod6;yeah, 'tis a good idea. 1632945;1490674258;TomServo;Just so I understand, survey says? Node is fucked, may have forensic value? 1632946;1490674308;asciilifeform;TomServo: aha 1632947;1490674319;asciilifeform;potentially very valuable. 1632948;1490674322;mod6;we need a way to rebuild the index. 1632949;1490674362;trinque;anyhow good article, but the guy overlooks the reason why, stated here the other day http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632388 1632950;1490674362;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 20:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632355 << orlol discussed this, and it was 100% true, 'homo americanus' has some very serious damage that is very expensive to build prosthesis for -- he has no family , no friends, no one will lend him money other than at extortionate rates, has no one alive whom he could live with in small hut, 5 to 10 sq. metres, without killing one another 1632951;1490674371;mod6;TomServo: Do you have any backups of your chain at all? 1632952;1490674385;trinque;which is why he's got nothing but "no one will come to my pistol classes :(" at the end 1632953;1490674392;TomServo;mod6: Yes, but not a terribly recent one unfortunately. 1632954;1490674408;mod6;You could roll back to your latest backup I suppose, but using your chain for forensics is really a good idea so we can try to extrapolate some causation. 1632955;1490674418;asciilifeform;trinque: the folx who understood-why -- i suspect -- are not teaching pistol class, they are eating pistols 1632956;1490674442;asciilifeform;but at the very least -- not posting 1632957;1490674553;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/clark-county-nevada-commits-three-quarter-billion-in-taxpayer-dollars-to-stadium/ << Qntra - Clark County Nevada Commits Three Quarter Billion In Taxpayer dollars To Stadium 1632958;1490674576;asciilifeform;as orlol wrote, when someone asked 'how do i, typical office plankton, survive colapse' : 'for you -- there is not an answer. but you could try to become somebody else, a different kind of person , for whom there ~is~' or sumthinglikethat 1632959;1490674579;trinque;kinda hard to square "turn the other cheek" and "render unto caesar" with ~doing anything~ 1632960;1490674638;trinque;utterly feminizing religion (at least the widely practiced version in the states). 1632961;1490674651;TomServo;mod6: Gotcha. I'll try and perserve this as is and follow up later. Thanks. 1632962;1490674662;mod6;Yeah, certainly. 1632963;1490674690;mod6;If you wanna work on something here quick, get familiar with dumpblock and dump the last 12 blocks for us perhaps. 1632964;1490674691;trinque;that may be the one actual advantage with the black hoodie kids. if nothing else, they haven't got sky-dad keeping them up at night. 1632965;1490674723;mod6;TomServo: as a side note, I've been watching MST for the first time. show is hilarious. i had no idea bout your nick. :] 1632966;1490674746;TomServo;mod6: aha! It's pretty great. 1632967;1490674754;mod6;indeed haha. 1632968;1490674850;asciilifeform;trinque: the mexicans, with their nominal christianity, iirc, seem to demolish the blacks wherever the turf wars include both. so maybe not so simple. 1632969;1490674864;mod6;meanwhile, I'll see what i can do in the next few days about putting together alf's suggested patch 1632970;1490674898;BingoBoingo; trinque: the mexicans, with their nominal christianity, iirc, seem to demolish the blacks wherever the turf wars include both. so maybe not so simple. << Aha, Catholic v. Protestant 1632971;1490674907;asciilifeform;mod6: the knob isn't strictly necessay, you can pipe dumpblock into sha512 1632972;1490674910;trinque;yep, different creature 1632973;1490674916;asciilifeform;it'd be convenient, is all 1632974;1490674928;mod6;asciilifeform: ah, fair enough. but yeah, could be handy. 1632975;1490675066;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632901 << aha. goes by 'spyked'. regular commenter on trilema and even occasionally contravex, eg. http://www.contravex.com/2017/02/18/the-robot-tax/#comment-54654 1632976;1490675066;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 01:54 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, anyone know this d00d? : http://lucian.mogosanu.ro/about 1632977;1490675094;trinque;the protestant thing was in the first place a rejection of teh catholic "corruption" 1632978;1490675095;asciilifeform;oh hey. 1632979;1490675102;asciilifeform;neato pete_dushenski 1632980;1490675103;trinque;catholic seems much more likely to sin now, pray later 1632981;1490675103;pete_dushenski;he's a phd computing science student of some description. decent blogger too. 1632982;1490675120;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: cheers 1632983;1490675158;BingoBoingo; catholic seems much more likely to sin now, pray later << AKA, infrustructre to handle need for believers to do "necessary" "evils" 1632984;1490675492;pete_dushenski;in other evils, why do 'muricans suck at math ? it's the teachers, dummy http://archive.is/mfd3i 1632985;1490675570;asciilifeform;mod6: imho manual knobs ~for unwedging~ are a fundamental mistake. nodes shouldn't be wedgeable, period. and the only use for a wedged node is to learn why it wedged and to make said scenario impossible in the future. 1632986;1490675625;asciilifeform;and so, knobs for dissection, -- yes, useful 1632987;1490675964;mod6;well, i agree it never should happen. 1632988;1490677143;mircea_popescu;hello! 1632989;1490677165;pete_dushenski;bienvenido 1632990;1490677166;*;mircea_popescu tacitly confirms mp_en_viaje was his very own self. 1632991;1490677174;asciilifeform;oh hey. 1632992;1490677233;mircea_popescu;how goes alfie. 1632993;1490677273;mod6;hey! 1632994;1490677291;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632770 <<< bwahaha what. 1632995;1490677291;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 16:10 asciilifeform: 'Hello asciilifeform I see on coin.dance/nodes , The Real Bitcoin is listed with the 'Emergent Consensus' feature tag. Could you tell me if that's accurate - will you follow a HF to > 1MB , and could you tell me anything about how it's implemented in TRB ? Thx!' 1632996;1490677446;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632806 << anyone ever told you you can kvetch with the best of them ? they have competitions for this in the borscht belt you know. 1632997;1490677446;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 17:34 asciilifeform: incidentally : asciilifeform's muscle memory never recovered, still has to look up the commands ~every~ ~single~ ~fucking~ time. 1632998;1490677549;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632824 << i'm not actually gonna read the bs ; by the time they start with the "mistake" and "apologize" you know it's the wrong side of history speaking. 1632999;1490677549;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 16:48 asciilifeform: meanwhile, daniel bernstein ( of the smooth-parts-of-integers algo used in phuctor, and 1,001 other useful mathematical works ) is headed for gasenwagen: https://eindhoven.cr.yp.to/false-statements-by-henry-de-valence.txt 1633000;1490677567;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: he didn't apologize 1633001;1490677573;asciilifeform;or 'mistake' 1633002;1490677579;mircea_popescu;good for him. 1633003;1490677607;asciilifeform;but it's a long an' fairly unpleasant document, fwiw i was not able to swallow whole thing, of yet. 1633004;1490677621;asciilifeform;will have to wait till i get stuck in a lift, or such. 1633005;1490677630;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632843 << time to wake up to the fact that female / nonwhite ceos do not work. go with the flow, yo. 1633006;1490677630;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 18:06 asciilifeform: ' Rich Felker Retweeted Adora Cheung‏ @nolimits Mar 23 Last month another investor asked a female founder/CEO to search for a white male to replace her as CEO. Also uninvited.' 1633007;1490677659;mircea_popescu;takes a jack warner to build a company and a carly fiorina to burn it down. 1633008;1490677815;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632866 << there's really no different groups among the soviets. they all have the same "stands" on the basis of the same "tru fax" etc. 1633009;1490677815;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 18:29 phf: oh, that's different group though. it's the "girl hacker" community 1633010;1490677864;mircea_popescu;girl hacker or no girl hacker it'll still be save the flying pandas, guns kill people, abortion doesn't kill people, can't say nigger and our democracy etc. 1633011;1490677943;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632867 << like all large size sweatshirts over at the america's mall hot topic, "oss" is fulla "women". they were "hippies" before and nobody noticed also. 1633012;1490677943;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 18:29 shinohai: Good God is OSS full of women with penises nau ? 1633013;1490678023;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/linda-vista-social-club/ << Trilema - Linda Vista Social Club 1633014;1490678041;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632872 << that's pretty much the required blue pill. it's either this or else no possiblity of "our democracy". kinda what the whole "toxic ideas" is all about : here's the set of notions that make an indefensible, unfundamented belief in our religious tenets untenable. 1633015;1490678041;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 18:36 ben_vulpes: apparently children shouldn't worry about making judgements about the world. or maybe just some subset of the world. it's unclear, but i think it would be grand if we all skipped along thinking that everything is hunky-dory because who am i to judge? 1633016;1490678096;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632874 << o noes, republic's 1st martyr ? 1633017;1490678096;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 18:41 danielpbarron: a friend of mine is dealing with social workers trying to take his kids away, in part -- i think, because his oldest has been repeating some of the things i taught him to his teachers in school 1633018;1490678241;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632890 << there's a reason mp opts not to live in the us, however. that shit works if there's a happy meeting of one's network with the general prevalence of sane people. if your network is 1k deep and sane people are 10k ppm, it works fine. if your network is 10 deep and sane people are 10 ppm, you're about five degrees of magnitude short meaning roughly speaking it'll work once every 10k t 1633019;1490678241;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 19:28 ben_vulpes: can also attempt a mircea_popescu, and go after the cps officer in question personally for making shit up 1633020;1490678241;mircea_popescu;ries. 1633021;1490678475;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632901 << yes, goes by spyked on trilema ; bright undergrad and then grad at the bucharest politechnic (which still is a fine technical school, though it was better pre-democracy). 1633022;1490678475;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 01:54 asciilifeform: unrelatedly, anyone know this d00d? : http://lucian.mogosanu.ro/about 1633023;1490678536;mircea_popescu;at some point cca 2012 i was trying to get him to get the lab into building miners. it never took off though. 1633024;1490678636;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632906 << lightning just struck again. truth is, the world of actual competence / unsuck is truly tiny. there's a marked difference between type A "i saw a chick, do you know her ?" "no" and type A' "i saw this chick driving a red porsche, and she was without a doubt the most aggressive driver i ever saw. and incredibly fucking hot too!" "ah, that's jane," 1633025;1490678636;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 02:00 phf: in practice last two times i was asked that, i knew the vadim etc. in question. it's still a funny question tho 1633026;1490678804;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632918 << this happens to be entirely false. the contrary view is based on the same shaky basis "global warming" is based : taking the past 20 years and "extrapolating" it into "history". in point of fact most wars in history (in the sense of 90%+) were won by the right. the incidental social turbulence caused by the tailwinds of industrialization make this look different. but even pre 1950, 1633027;1490678804;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 03:48 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'The Left has won far more dirty civil wars and insurgent conflicts than the Right has won. There are a host of reasons for this, but most notable is the aversion, on the Right, to give up the security of law-and-order. ' << tru! 1633028;1490678805;mircea_popescu; the left got crushed systematically and everywhere. franco passed, the brown shirts used the commies for pissing practice etc. 1633029;1490678828;mircea_popescu;it's a sweet dream this, that leftard boy has a chance in the world. nothing more than a dream, though. in reality, leftard boy is dogmeat. 1633030;1490678905;mircea_popescu;being left is generally the macula of stupidity ; but in matters of conflict is just the convenient excuse of losers looking for an excuse to lose (for full discussion of how this works, review the hustler, magical jew there explains the process). 1633031;1490679023;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632948 << technically there is a reindex, for node that shut down clean (ie, didn't trash the bdb temp stores) 1633032;1490679023;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 04:12 mod6: we need a way to rebuild the index. 1633033;1490679183;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632968 << this is factual. 1633034;1490679183;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 04:20 asciilifeform: trinque: the mexicans, with their nominal christianity, iirc, seem to demolish the blacks wherever the turf wars include both. so maybe not so simple. 1633035;1490679232;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632977 << and "corruption" is always and everywhere the actually good part. 1633036;1490679232;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 04:24 trinque: the protestant thing was in the first place a rejection of teh catholic "corruption" 1633037;1490679502;mircea_popescu;awww, theranos finally blew up did it 1633038;1490679504;pete_dushenski;catholic corruption certainly made for some beautifully crafted churches, most of which are still enjoyed today even by non-catholics (maybe especially) 1633039;1490679532;pete_dushenski;none of the guilt, all of the awe 1633040;1490679568;pete_dushenski;but tnstaafl. have to buy plane ticket to see. 1633041;1490679835;mircea_popescu;"For two days, according to insiders, Holmes, who is now 32, had refused to address these concerns. Instead, she remained largely holed up in a conference room, surrounded by her inner circle. Half-empty food containers and cups of stale coffee and green juice were strewn on the table as she strategized with a phalanx of trusted advisers, including Ramesh “Sunny” Balwani, then Theranos’s president and C.O.O.; Heather Ki 1633042;1490679835;mircea_popescu;ng, the company’s general counsel; lawyers from Boies, Schiller & Flexner, the intrepid law firm; and crisis-management consultants. Most of the people in the war room had been there for two days and nights straight, according to an insider, leaving mainly to shower or make a feeble attempt at a couple of hours of shut-eye. There was also an uncomfortable chill in the room. At Theranos, Holmes preferred that the temperature 1633043;1490679835;mircea_popescu; be maintained in the mid-60s, which facilitated her preferred daily uniform of a black turtleneck with a puffy black vest—a homogeneity that she had borrowed from her idol, the late Steve Jobs." 1633044;1490679864;mircea_popescu;psssh. "women ceo" of the libertard variety, "celebrity" bla bla, "billionaire by x". what the fuck does anyoine expect out of the soap opera circuit ? 1633045;1490679889;mircea_popescu;of course there's a soap opera coming out the other end. what the fuck else ? people who can't think "starting" "companies" hurr. 1633046;1490679982;mircea_popescu;“a chemistry is performed so that a chemical reaction occurs and generates a signal from the chemical interaction with the sample, which is translated into a result, which is then reviewed by certified laboratory personnel.” 1633047;1490679988;mircea_popescu;a chemistry is performed indeed. 1633048;1490682286;diana_coman;mod6, list of deps for trb from what I gathered on a fresh, minimal centos box: bc, gcc, g++, gpg, wget, perl, patch, rsync, sha512sum, unzip 1633049;1490682315;mircea_popescu;on a 100mbit link should take no more than half an hour! 1633050;1490682396;diana_coman;ha, wb mircea_popescu ; I left it on its own after I saw it was going ok, haven't quite timed it 1633051;1490682467;diana_coman;anyway, gotta say that mod6's script and docs were great and very, very helpful 1633052;1490682484;mircea_popescu;ty ty 1633053;1490682491;mircea_popescu;and yes they are. 1633054;1490690698;BingoBoingo;Welcome back 1633055;1490703968;mircea_popescu;how goes BingoBoingo 1633056;1490704241;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Ih9uR/?raw=true 1633057;1490704241;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1633058;1490704255;shinohai;and Buenas dias Sr. mircea_popescu , wb o/ 1633059;1490704270;mircea_popescu;hola! how's sluts. 1633060;1490704335;shinohai;It's like digging through the landfill hoping to find that HDD you threw away with 20 BTC on it back in 2010 at this point. 1633061;1490704344;shinohai;But I'll stick with it. 1633062;1490704344;mircea_popescu;quite, huh. 1633063;1490704355;mircea_popescu;only if it's fun :D 1633064;1490704490;shinohai;It has it's moments, but selling some of these people on GPG, etc for a future http://trilema.com/2015/a-proper-social-site-for-the-bdsm-community/ is a bit of a hard sell unfortunately. 1633065;1490704522;mircea_popescu;i expect, yeah. so dun sell it like that. 1633066;1490704545;mircea_popescu;after all, the hos buy lipstick and it sure as fuck don't promise that to them does it. 1633067;1490704852;shinohai;Out of every ~1000 contacts a week, < 10 seem to even give a shit about Bitcoin. Yet endless complaints about chargebacks and scams on other platforms. 1633068;1490704855;shinohai;Go figure. 1633069;1490705426;mircea_popescu;nuts huh 1633070;1490705515;shinohai;I now know how you and hanbot musta felt when you tried to *give* camgirls btc a few years back. 1633071;1490705534;mircea_popescu;im still in disbelief about that not wholly digested experience. 1633072;1490705563;mircea_popescu;anyway, i recall the correct way to get dumb 16yo chicks to shave their snatch was to convince the other girls that it's declase. then they convince each other. 1633073;1490705592;mircea_popescu;perhaps appealing to their vanity will work where appealing to their absent intelligence failed ; after all everyone's got a vanity. 1633074;1490705930;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in elsewhere amusements, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1837136.msg18302362#msg18302362 1633075;1490706030;shinohai;hey! 1633076;1490706061;mircea_popescu;also apparently they've been making blogs, these fellows, eg http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Understand%20Everything%20Fundamentally.html http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html and prolly more 1633077;1490706070;mircea_popescu;leaviong aside the lulz of windows titles for a moment. 1633078;1490706087;shinohai;"Thus I think Mircea Popescu either hasn't thought this out entirely or he is counting on someone like myself (i.e. the sovereign republic) to fix it." 1633079;1490706089;shinohai;lmao 1633080;1490706097;mircea_popescu;possibilities abound! 1633081;1490706216;mircea_popescu;o lol, you still got a tardstalk account ? 1633082;1490706252;shinohai;Sure do. 1633083;1490706258;netmonk;hello 1633084;1490706273;mircea_popescu;aite, point out to the dude that blondy in 1633085;1490706276;mircea_popescu;hi netmonk 1633086;1490706276;*;shinohai also doesn't have an avi of himself wearing his fucking hat backwards 1633087;1490706416;mircea_popescu;shinohai : point out to the dude that blondy in https://archive.is/QgEUj#selection-5165.1-5096.24 being eaten out by her friend is actually smart bio student who was also the heroine in http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/ 1633088;1490706461;mircea_popescu;not a matter of photoshop. besides i have a whole [unpublished] fucking set with them. and for that matter while she may be smarter than him, she's certainly braver seeing how she DID talk to mp eh. 1633089;1490706515;shinohai;"But I couldn't even stay in the USA, because I am such a rebel. " <<< Like asciilifeform, my dosimeter is nearing max 1633090;1490706525;mircea_popescu;who couldn't ? 1633091;1490706718;mircea_popescu;(anyway, ftr i do not dispute the "So this exemplifies that MP makes mistakes, is reckless, duplicitous, and may be borderline lunatic/sociopath who could lose his mind at some point and totally REKT Bitcoin. We do not have decentralization with Satoshi's PoW." concept. examples are not needed ; mp is indeed all the above and more.) 1633092;1490706779;shinohai;Or, mp may outsmart all you top minds on tardstalk/reddit - but perhaps I am biased. 1633093;1490706801;mircea_popescu;i was born of a woman in the usual way ; perhaps fit for friendship but certainly not fit for public worship. it may work in private with my own sluts, but that is an insanely narrow and controlled environment. 1633094;1490707360;asciilifeform;https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1837136.msg18324180#msg18324180 >> 'Note back in 2013, MPeX sent me (@AnonyMint) a PM. It was something about his enemy @rpietila who he refers to as "tortilla". Since then Risto has had his laptop hacked, been put in a mental ward and subjected to forced medications, etc..' 1633095;1490707377;asciilifeform;hilarious thread 1633096;1490707389;mircea_popescu;o.O 1633097;1490707426;mircea_popescu;didn't the guy end up with a few week's enforced relaxation because he attempted to reorganize some hotel/resort he didn't own or somesuch feats of confusion ? 1633098;1490707540;mircea_popescu;it was a pretty lulzy thread, something with a sauna. 2014ish or such. 1633099;1490707597;shinohai;Oh so THATS who this guy is .... anonymint 1633100;1490708353;mircea_popescu;remind me ? 1633101;1490708766;mircea_popescu;dude how the fuck are 100ms roundtrips possible to mp's interface in the middle of fucking goatland i have nfi. there's a half mile 20% average climb to get to his crow's nest. 1633102;1490708776;mircea_popescu;the technologies have defo improved since the 90s 1633103;1490708864;asciilifeform;^ twist: he's talking to the mitmtron, 100 metres away!111111 1633104;1490708875;mircea_popescu;nah i just checked it propar. 1633105;1490708908;mircea_popescu;also any kind of anything would stick out as a fucking sore thumb out here. unless of course evil imperial agents learn how to drive donkey uphill just like the locals. 1633106;1490708978;asciilifeform;no moar cement jungle ? 1633107;1490708984;mircea_popescu;no moar. 1633108;1490708991;asciilifeform;pet a pampas cat yet ? 1633109;1490709021;mircea_popescu;and i can't tell you how fucking great it is to not find oneself in a country as despicably idiotic, either. people shouldn't live with people they hate. 1633110;1490709274;asciilifeform;if not a mega-seekrit, where-in-the-world-is-mircea_popescu ? 1633111;1490709292;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform not mega seekrit, but momentarily seekrit owing to the procedings in the last trilema article 1633112;1490709296;mircea_popescu;giving people a chance to guess neh 1633113;1490709299;asciilifeform;aite. 1633114;1490709328;mircea_popescu;perhaps in time that becomes a social game. "where-in-the-world-is-mircea_popescu ?" now from tabletop, inc. 1633115;1490710080;Framedragger;well so far all i've got is that camera temperature was allegedly 29 degrees (C) which makes me to conclude after careful consideration that it must be "some place real warm at night". :) 1633116;1490710103;mircea_popescu;or that the metadata is all for lulz. either way. 1633117;1490710108;Framedragger;of course :) 1633118;1490710133;mircea_popescu;but frozen it was not, owing to all the vegetation, so there is that. 1633119;1490710169;mircea_popescu;does england still have snow or all melted yet ? 1633120;1490710212;Framedragger;no snow! it's actually spring here (or well, was yesterday lol, good enough for a nice picnic), and ~here~ is scotland, down south could be even better 1633121;1490710222;mircea_popescu;aaaah 1633122;1490710236;Framedragger;and in general were snow to appear, they would go bonkers. like for instance use rakes in edinburgh to try to make it disappear from streets (duly observed) 1633123;1490710238;mircea_popescu;do they also have no nudity at public park laws or didn't check ? 1633124;1490710249;Framedragger;quite a lack of nudity indeed (did check) 1633125;1490710264;mircea_popescu;fucking stupid. wtf is a park for if not naked dogs and naked women. 1633126;1490710276;mircea_popescu;incidentally... they fucking dress dogs now, don't they. nuts. 1633127;1490710353;Framedragger;oh yeah! nuts indeed :( sad view. and in general parks are a bore in the uk 1633128;1490710388;mircea_popescu;and to think it is all backed with the nonsensical belief that THINGS WOULD HAPPEN!!1 1633129;1490710394;Framedragger;i'm sure that down south they'd also patronisingly stare at you if you dared smoke a cigarette in a park. the scottish at least tend to give less of a fuck, but still a nanny state 100% 1633130;1490710404;Framedragger;yeah. 1633131;1490710405;mircea_popescu;what the everloving fuck will happen. nothing happens. dudes who don't have the balls to talk to women dressed sure as fuck won't talk to them naked. 1633132;1490710443;mircea_popescu;though it's true the dogs seem to love the idea. "finally! a sane human! ima go right there and lick hi to her!" 1633133;1490710551;Framedragger;reminds me of your story about observing a dog which attempted to systematically find a new owner. sanest mammal in town sorta deal 1633134;1490710561;mircea_popescu;sad but tru. 1633135;1490710595;mircea_popescu;there's this runaway effect of unbounded self-referential complexity whereby everyone long forgot why the fuck they were doing the thing 184 steps back that "it all" supposedly rests on. 1633136;1490710635;mircea_popescu;the brighest dogs have iqs in the 30-40 range, and yet they can beat the average human in ~average human~ contexts. what could be more humiliating of a "culture" i can not imagine. 1633137;1490710772;Framedragger;balancing the democracy stack takes up lotsa memory... 1633138;1490710785;mircea_popescu;democracy fabulous hash algo. unbounded memory. 1633139;1490710905;Framedragger;somehow reminds me of a theory in social neuroscience (not original of course) whereby genesis of 'self-awareness' is attributed to buildup of neural machinery to predict what the other social animals in a group are doing/thinking. you end up having to predict what the other animal is predicting *you* to be doing, hence have to have a model of your own attention/awareness. 1633140;1490710923;Framedragger;but it's *expensive* and there are lots of ways to short-circuit the mechanism (cheating the award mechanism to think you've accomplished something, etc.) not rigorous at all but yeah 1633141;1490710940;mircea_popescu;i recall this thing was one of the (many) post-bicameral-world-excitement byproducts. it failed to go very far. 1633142;1490710993;mircea_popescu;the notion, in the abstract, of POE seems splendidly meaningful to excplain cognitive evolutionarily ; but any attempt to pin it down in practice went ~nowhere afaik. 1633143;1490711008;mircea_popescu;to explain cognition* i mean 1633144;1490711051;Framedragger;guess so. (guess you can trace quite a bit of jaynes in it yeah.) not enough evidence for sure, and not concrete enough (to generate falsifiable predictions, etc.) 1633145;1490711141;mircea_popescu;there may be fundamental problems with the very concept. (for instance : give an example of self-organizing heat exchange defect. "oh, life itself" what else ? "the tornado that happens in the drain". mmkay. the problem with not being able to give examples of a theory besides the item that prompted the theory is generally known as begging the question. 1633146;1490711231;Framedragger;definitely some kind of circular presupposition yeah (+ "i love recursion!!!" "i've read hofstadter" vibe) 1633147;1490711243;Framedragger;idea is stimulating to me but maybe that's about it. 1633148;1490711312;mircea_popescu;nothing wrong with a little bit of aesthetics. but you certainly noticed the very strongly monotonous abstractization function of actual knowledge. what starts life as banal observatrion of natural numbers ends up linked to ever more complex manifestations in who knows what algebra / space / etc. 1633149;1490711326;mircea_popescu;here, however, no such evolution. makes one fear the idea is actually sterile. 1633150;1490711368;mircea_popescu;ie, "this sounds great and explains nothing" ; much like the void thinking (void) ai program. 1633151;1490711464;Framedragger;i guess so - it doesn't seem capable of leading one anywhere, so to speak. (this connects with (again) "generates nothing to be falsified"). iirc they tried to connect with "mirror neurons" etcetc "look we make it more concrete", but it was too eclectic / a cheat (don't recall, for anyone curious the article in question was iirc https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3223025/ ) 1633152;1490711512;mircea_popescu;consider eg a * b > a + b. this is basically cauchy pared down. that there's no direct path from one to the other is the only last nail of hope (but mp, just because we've not found yet why it's fundamental doesn't prove it isn't. sure.) 1633153;1490711534;mircea_popescu;Framedragger yep that's exactly the sadness, that all attempts ended up smoke or mirrors. 1633154;1490712330;mod6;hai mircea_popescu, wb! 1633155;1490712350;mircea_popescu;hola mod6 1633156;1490712535;mod6;How's the nest? 1633157;1490712649;*;asciilifeform looks at photo 1633158;1490712654;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: cuba ?! 1633159;1490712676;mircea_popescu;oh it's lovely. asciilifeform nah. 1633160;1490712757;mod6;nice. :] 1633161;1490712784;mod6;I knew it couldn't have far off given recent bs in the former locale. 1633162;1490712835;mod6;*have been 1633163;1490712844;mod6;too much nonsense. 1633164;1490713036;mircea_popescu;myeah 1633165;1490713114;mircea_popescu;the difference is palpable, too. me in computer store, sits down in char. "can i buy this ?" "uh... it's the display..." "you have no others ?" "brb i'll check" 1633166;1490713141;mircea_popescu;guy comes back later, to tell me they have no others ; and i can buy that one. takes it over to dispatch, "Hey, can you take this chair apart and pack it ?" "i'd love to." 1633167;1490713150;mircea_popescu;i'm like... finally! people! doing commerce irl!~ 1633168;1490713182;mod6;So i bought one of those rigol MSO1104Z-S deals, and a bunch of stuff. couple raspberry pi's, three arduinos and a fairly large kit of sorts. 1633169;1490713204;mircea_popescu;making satellite ? 1633170;1490713211;mod6;haha, trying to. 1633171;1490713232;mod6;<+mircea_popescu> i'm like... finally! people! doing commerce irl!~ << aha, nice. 1633172;1490713236;mircea_popescu;we prolly should put one up just to mess with people. it's not THAT expensive by now. 1633173;1490713257;mod6;trb in orbit 1633174;1490713261;mircea_popescu;you know ? 1633175;1490713271;mircea_popescu;all sputnik did was peep... peep... peep... 1633176;1490713315;*;shinohai buys a fuckton of weather balloons from Amazon ..... 1633177;1490713399;mod6;i did wanna get a few xilinx boards to play with... but first ill see what I can learn with the other stuff I got. i also bought a soldering iron. 1633178;1490713407;mod6;so we'll see what kind of mess i can make. haha 1633179;1490713419;mircea_popescu;you looking into hardware engineering eh 1633180;1490713437;mod6;thought it might be worthwhile to learn a thing or two anyway. 1633181;1490713460;mircea_popescu;tru 1633182;1490713493;mod6;and it's a fairly inexpensive foray into some of that. for educational purposes. 1633183;1490713516;mircea_popescu;great career path anyway. i never heard of an unemployed hardware negineer. 1633184;1490713532;mod6;fair enough. 1633185;1490713561;mod6;I think I started thinking about it a lot more recently when pondering the auditing process of FGs. 1633186;1490713581;mod6;Now, alf has a bunch of steps on NSA's website. But the gears were turning before hand. 1633187;1490713587;mircea_popescu;aha 1633188;1490713636;mod6;I won't let it side track me from my main work. Just something to futz with here and there. 1633189;1490713680;mircea_popescu;the more a man knows, the better a man he is. i wouldn't worry about it. 1633190;1490713693;mod6;Salud! 1633191;1490713716;mircea_popescu;certainly as far as my own experience goes, just about all i know i learned while neglecting homework. 1633192;1490713726;shinohai;It's a fun diversion. I have a plastic tub full of resistors, ic's, etc. I got for pennies when local radioschack shat 1633193;1490713747;mod6;nice shinohai 1633194;1490713754;shinohai;Occasionally a project presents itself. 1633195;1490713758;mod6;mircea_popescu: hah, sounds kinda familiar. 1633196;1490713789;mod6;I also bought this huge whiteboard ; 6'x4' 1633197;1490713840;mod6;i realized when trying to diagram out, for instance, the notated split of trb.node with trb.wallet (posted in logs a little while back) that I didn't have enough paper on 8.5"x11" 1633198;1490713846;*;shinohai would like to thank Forrest Mims for printing decent book I could understand at 8 and building lifelong obsession 1633199;1490713899;mod6;The thinking was, now I can diagram the things, post an image, have the other republicans look it over, and agree/disagree. Then it can become part of the ticket that gets entered, or at least linked in the notes section. 1633200;1490713927;mod6;I hope it'll spur some collaboration anyway. 1633201;1490714365;mircea_popescu;yeah whiteboards are cool 1633202;1490714374;mircea_popescu;slides make for a very poor replacement. 1633203;1490714398;shinohai;My neighbor has one of these, though I have yet to play with it: https://www.schooloutfitters.com/catalog/product_info/pfam_id/PFAM32230/products_id/PRO50936 1633204;1490714414;asciilifeform;i like everything about whiteboards save for the smell (and how they get porous and uneraseable over fairly short time) 1633205;1490714426;mircea_popescu;ie, slides AS YOU DESCRIBE THEM (here's a shot of a whiteboard from another room, comment) work ; but the idiocy normally deployed by the empire tards does not. 1633206;1490714443;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform irl we had blackboards ; and every teacher had asthma. 1633207;1490714458;asciilifeform;they oughta wear nose cones. 1633208;1490714472;mircea_popescu;did you have the chalk wars ? 1633209;1490714488;asciilifeform;wassat 1633210;1490714525;mircea_popescu;(somebody came up with bright idea of making cone out of paper, filling with ground up chalk, then pumping it out of the narrow end. DESASTER!!! followed. 1633211;1490714542;shinohai;I thought I recalled an article somewhere where these parents successfully sued a school for forcing their son to clap erasers as punishment because he developed breathing issues .... 1633212;1490714545;asciilifeform;http://grrrgraphics.com/index.html << in other lulz. 1633213;1490714548;mircea_popescu;that was one of the very few administrative rules that got actually obeyed. ~nobody wanted to see a rehash of the white horror. 1633214;1490714644;mircea_popescu;shinohai is that pizza slice a reference to the 4chan child pron thing ? 1633215;1490714656;mod6;<+asciilifeform> i like everything about whiteboards save for the smell (and how they get porous and uneraseable over fairly short time) << on the latter part here, i agree. i kinda made a mistake. the one i bought is ~ok~, but when it starts to get bad, I'm gonna buy a new one that is glass. 1633216;1490714663;mod6;those ones never go bad. 1633217;1490714693;mircea_popescu;mod6 buy the nice bohemian glass. (shards sold to idiots as "swarowski crystals" hurr). those also never scratch. 1633218;1490714696;shinohai;mircea_popescu: prolly 1633219;1490714718;mod6;mircea_popescu: ah, thanks for the tip! 1633220;1490714723;asciilifeform;mod6: the stick-and-peel films also work 1633221;1490714725;mircea_popescu;it's just leaded glass irl. 1633222;1490714732;mod6;ah. ok 1633223;1490714734;asciilifeform;cheapo, you put it right on the wall, if it wears out -- peel off, dump 1633224;1490714738;mod6;asciilifeform: noted. 1633225;1490715464;ben_vulpes;old windows with the backs painted are a pleasing aesthetic alt 1633226;1490715474;ben_vulpes;ragragra child get off my keyboard 1633227;1490715487;ben_vulpes;alternative to sterile white patches on the wall 1633228;1490715501;asciilifeform;painted windows, you'd love nsa outposts, lol 1633229;1490715546;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what, they mount fake painted windows to cube walls to convince drones the building has more ports than it actually does but painted over for security? 1633230;1490715553;asciilifeform;nono 1633231;1490715571;asciilifeform;think: usual american glass box office hell, but all windows painted on inside 1633232;1490715576;ben_vulpes;well yes 1633233;1490715595;ben_vulpes;i'm not saying /paint your windows/ i'm saying salvage some vintage hardwood window frames that don't seal, lack double-panes etc, and do something pretty with them. 1633234;1490715599;asciilifeform;aah 1633235;1490715611;mircea_popescu;!~ticker --market all 1633236;1490715618;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1064.02, vol: 8391.74520177 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1062.0, vol: 9709.32942 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1058.5, vol: 23558.13526354 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1006.491647, vol: 5672.15140000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1060.051, vol: 3714.36133046 | Volume-weighted last average: 1054.40694027 1633237;1490715623;ben_vulpes;last set girl made me had this subtle hand-done white-on-off-white chevron pattern 1633238;1490715657;shinohai;http://archive.is/jst71 <<< More shots fired in the Google vs. Symantec warz 1633239;1490715768;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: p-panama? 1633240;1490716445;asciilifeform;belize ? 1633241;1490716784;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633177 << i'll point out, FUCKGOATS even doubles as a (very small, actually 2nd smallest chip they sell) xilinx dev board... 1633242;1490716784;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 15:03 mod6: i did wanna get a few xilinx boards to play with... but first ill see what I can learn with the other stuff I got. i also bought a soldering iron. 1633243;1490717159;mircea_popescu;neither! 1633244;1490717294;*;asciilifeform did in fact try the obvious, taking the freighters as a 40 m. scale, and walking the costlines on map. but failed. 1633245;1490717318;asciilifeform;maybe these were very long ships. or very short... 1633246;1490717905;mircea_popescu;i think much like the gps of yore, "civillian" maps not militarily accurate 1633247;1490717960;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i haven't spotted a fudged coastline on google's map yet -- dun mean it ain't there. 1633248;1490717985;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo goes well 1633249;1490718021;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform then how explain you the matchlessness of aerial photograph ? 1633250;1490718049;asciilifeform;the limited ability of asciilifeform's puny brain ? 1633251;1490718059;mircea_popescu;ah 1633252;1490718102;asciilifeform;a serious 13337d00d could , i imagine, perspective-transform the photo in his head, draw it, then immediately find on map. 1633253;1490718180;mircea_popescu;ye olde analyst 1633254;1490718205;mircea_popescu;(no joke, there's people whose whole career consists / ed of looking at grainy aerial barf to spot missile silos or whatnot) 1633255;1490718224;asciilifeform;aha, it's a profession, wat. 1633256;1490718241;mircea_popescu;about half of what droive the whole "image recognition ai" wank 1633257;1490718267;mircea_popescu;could never hire enough of those. 1633258;1490718284;asciilifeform;and before that, they dabbled in eldritch horrors, e.g. optical comparators 1633259;1490718293;asciilifeform;(yes, ~analogue~ image search tool) 1633260;1490718323;mircea_popescu;aha. 1633261;1490718337;mircea_popescu;though that more for bombing and such time-sensitive ops 1633262;1490718389;asciilifeform;asciilifeform's father, in ye olde su army, had a job in map-makin' 1633263;1490718403;asciilifeform;and so asciilifeform played with various fragments of some of the gear, as a boy. 1633264;1490718444;asciilifeform;(at that point, decades-old gear, even) 1633265;1490718512;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the truly mega-seekrit maps today are magnetometric, gravimetric, radio background, etc 1633266;1490718533;mircea_popescu;aha 1633267;1490718536;mircea_popescu;ocean floor etc 1633268;1490718619;asciilifeform;the radio is esp. interesting -- if you are anywhere near civilization, you can get a fairly accurate idea of exactly where, with a directional antenna and one of those pc radio dongles. 1633269;1490718731;mircea_popescu;prolly every other wifi hotspot broadcasts 3 decimal accurate longitude/latitude anyway 1633270;1490718786;asciilifeform;long before 'hotspots' etc , in '80s su, there was a prototype warhead that pinpointed final leg (descent) by map of radio spectrum 1633271;1490718847;asciilifeform;(optional fine-vernier -- if enemy has turned off his cities, and no radio -- reverts to classical inertially guided notion of where it is) 1633272;1490718922;BingoBoingo;AHA, CONELRAD 1633273;1490718941;mthreat;mircea_popescu: en viaje - donde? 1633274;1490718951;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/arkansas-facing-shortage-of-snuff-fans-to-watch-executions/ << Qntra - Arkansas Facing Shortage Of Snuff Fans To Watch Executions 1633275;1490718966;mthreat;oh we're guessing, nm :) 1633276;1490720842;*;asciilifeform rereading oldies, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152027.msg1616310#msg1616310 1633277;1490720997;asciilifeform;'It's ok Jeff, if this new thing will have to be the Real Bitcoin then this new thing WILL be the Real Bitcoin. Point blank: money will never tolerate the sort of crap that has been pouring out of devtroop for the past while. I don't care you(*)'ve been dorking around with it for years and nobody told you it's wrong, that doesn't make it right, that just makes the little coven irrelevant enough. If current Bitcoin can't be made into 1633278;1490720997;asciilifeform; good Bitcoin then sucks for current Bitcoin, it is no different from Novacoin or whatever flavor of the week failed altchain.' (mpoepr) 1633279;1490721249;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/QNKVG/?raw=true 1633280;1490721249;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1633281;1490721551;BingoBoingo;tyvm 1633282;1490721617;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/computing-constraints-limit-amazons-brick-and-mortar-adventure-with-shopsize-limit/ << Qntra - Computing Constraints Limit Amazon's Brick And Mortar Adventure with "Shopsize" Limit 1633283;1490721686;shinohai; Sorry BingoBoingo .... can we strike the "an" from before "Ethereum-like bugs" ? 1633284;1490721691;shinohai;My mistake 1633285;1490721705;BingoBoingo;ty fxd 1633286;1490721723;shinohai;thx o/ 1633287;1490723115;mod6;Today is like christmas. 1633288;1490723123;mod6;FGs have arrived. :] 1633289;1490723147;asciilifeform;congrats mod6 !! 1633290;1490723171;asciilifeform;happy FUCKGOATSing. 1633291;1490723172;mod6;Cheers asciilifeform! Many thanks. 1633292;1490723226;mod6;Very nice packaging I might add. 1633293;1490723236;asciilifeform;do an 'unbox' photo mod6 !111 1633294;1490723250;mod6;sure thing. 1633295;1490723482;jurov;http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/ Original SystemV sources published 1633296;1490723504;asciilifeform;oh neato jurov 1633297;1490723511;asciilifeform;are these different from the one in the Lions book ? 1633298;1490723536;jurov;there's more versions 1633299;1490723599;asciilifeform;i'll read any more sysv5 after i finish brezhnev. 1633300;1490723605;asciilifeform;and kim il sung. 1633301;1490723694;asciilifeform;how did it go, 'man who has not read sysv, is illiterate; man who has read nothing but sysv, is also illiterate' (or was it marx..) 1633302;1490723827;jurov;http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2017-March/009354.html butbut heroic effort!!!1 by numerous people over many years!!!1 1633303;1490723845;asciilifeform;lul 1633304;1490723859;danielpbarron;btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632959 << mp's advice of "flee the country" is in accordance with scripture. 1633305;1490723870;asciilifeform;incidentally jurov mit released, back in '90s, its lispm sources (the ones licensed by symbolics, ti, and lmi for megabux) under similar license. 1633306;1490723918;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632959 *^ 1633307;1490723918;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 04:16 trinque: kinda hard to square "turn the other cheek" and "render unto caesar" with ~doing anything~ 1633308;1490723935;danielpbarron;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1632983 << there is no necessary evil. Catholicism leads to hell www.atruechurch.info/catholicism.html 1633309;1490723935;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 04:25 BingoBoingo: catholic seems much more likely to sin now, pray later << AKA, infrustructre to handle need for believers to do "necessary" "evils" 1633310;1490725534;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ED62D7C8B4D9F7D45ACE9CFD2A4F743CD3353BF89595AA9510535369584247BE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1480...0843 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '193.61.4.128 (ssh-rsa key from 193.61.4.128 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (sideshow.psyc.bbk.ac.uk. GB) 1633311;1490725534;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/ED62D7C8B4D9F7D45ACE9CFD2A4F743CD3353BF89595AA9510535369584247BE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1555...6339 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '193.61.4.128 (ssh-rsa key from 193.61.4.128 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (sideshow.psyc.bbk.ac.uk. GB) 1633312;1490725577;asciilifeform;SCHOOL OF PSYCHOLOGICAL SCIENCES Birkbeck, University of London << lel 1633313;1490725606;mod6;Alright! FG unboxing pics: 1633314;1490725608;mod6;http://www.mod6.net/fg/ 1633315;1490725617;asciilifeform;oh hey. 1633316;1490725677;*;asciilifeform indeed had sent something looking quite like this, to mod6 !111 1633317;1490725750;mod6;:] 1633318;1490725782;asciilifeform;mod6: any reason i shouldn't link to these externally ? 1633319;1490725980;mod6;not at all. 1633320;1490725986;asciilifeform;aite 1633321;1490726118;mircea_popescu;mthreat that's being guessed upon! 1633322;1490726224;shinohai;mircea_popescu: ever visited Valparaiso ? 1633323;1490726279;mircea_popescu;shinohai "it's" bid! 1633324;1490726298;shinohai;>.> 1633325;1490726564;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/99AF8C8235EA010866A21AAD3160ABD9ABBB00160321045FF2A094B6BFF8F1C9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1520...5187 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.167.195.204 (ssh-rsa key from 195.167.195.204 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (reverse.completel.net. FR) 1633326;1490726564;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/99AF8C8235EA010866A21AAD3160ABD9ABBB00160321045FF2A094B6BFF8F1C9 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1647...2127 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.167.195.204 (ssh-rsa key from 195.167.195.204 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (reverse.completel.net. FR) 1633327;1490726826;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: coast of brazil 1633328;1490726829;asciilifeform;somewhere. 1633329;1490726837;mircea_popescu;nope. 1633330;1490726844;asciilifeform;then i utterly nfi 1633331;1490726851;mircea_popescu;brazil has some incredibly hot black women, but it's too hot altogether. 1633332;1490726863;mircea_popescu;cheaper tro move the hotties than to alter the climate. 1633333;1490726939;shinohai;In adition, Brazil has some some of the most callipygous ladies in SA 1633334;1490727050;mircea_popescu;sa ? 1633335;1490727065;mircea_popescu;ah. worldwide, really. best in big butts. 1633336;1490727148;asciilifeform;' I'VE NEVER sailed the Amazon, I've never reached Brazil; But the Don and Magdalena, They can go there when they will! ... Oh, I'd love to roll to Rio Some day before I'm old!' (tm)(r)kipling 1633337;1490727151;shinohai;oh sorry, sa for `South America` 1633338;1490727243;*;shinohai looks at trilema article finally, sees "Linda Vista", thinks of Paraguay ..... 1633339;1490727322;asciilifeform;lol why would he go to paraguay. 1633340;1490727383;shinohai;Perhaps he needs Indian slaves to work on the sugar plantation. 1633341;1490727475;mthreat;how broad can we guess the location? can I start with continent? 1633342;1490727481;mircea_popescu;shinohai tis not the republica oriental, no. 1633343;1490727499;*;mthreat wants to do this search in log(n) time 1633344;1490727500;mircea_popescu;mthreat do what amuses you shall be the whole of the law!1 1633345;1490727590;mircea_popescu;and speaking of adult women, http://68.media.tumblr.com/25194658b900ffe36dd12b221b184ea5/tumblr_o7zqrasbFG1vw96tuo1_1280.jpg 1633346;1490727593;mthreat;colombia 1633347;1490727636;mircea_popescu;mthreat nah. 1633348;1490727663;shinohai;He surely would not have went to Colombia without getting a copy of my slut list first. 1633349;1490727704;danielpbarron;indonesia 1633350;1490727715;mircea_popescu;danielpbarron nope. 1633351;1490727871;mthreat;Calafate 1633352;1490727904;mircea_popescu;mthreat in teh interest of human suffering and spurious torture ima limit the guesses to one per day per person. so tomorrow! 1633353;1490727961;mthreat;fair 'nuff 1633354;1490728034;mircea_popescu;how's tricks in austin anwyays ? 1633355;1490728035;BingoBoingo;ty fxd 1633356;1490728111;shinohai;kudos for stripping the exif data so we can't geolocate. 1633357;1490728124;asciilifeform;shinohai: civilized cameras don't exifate 1633358;1490728127;mircea_popescu;aww 1633359;1490728165;asciilifeform;( though i'd like to patch mine, to always give , e.g., semipalatinsk. ) 1633360;1490728233;mircea_popescu;in other sad fucking news : i'm now buying fucking homeopathy products. 1633361;1490728242;asciilifeform;waiwat 1633362;1490728245;asciilifeform;why 1633363;1490728248;mircea_popescu;why ? because the imbeciles that there's no other "mainstream" idiots won't make toothpaste withouyt fluoride. 1633364;1490728252;mthreat;mircea_popescu: austin's good, but i'm somewhere else at the moment. hint: i recently flew over butch cassidy's ranch house. 1633365;1490728262;mircea_popescu;the insane dilutionist tribe - do. so what can i do ? i buy from the weirdos. 1633366;1490728282;asciilifeform;mthreat: the 'albatross' still worx? 1633367;1490728286;mircea_popescu;was thaty like wyoming ? 1633368;1490728307;asciilifeform;( or what was it he had ) 1633369;1490728341;mircea_popescu;he bought it cvasi new and spent the first year dicking around with paperworks, i imaghine it still got years of juice. 1633370;1490728364;asciilifeform;i keep seeing parts for it, on 'ebay' etc. 1633371;1490728367;asciilifeform;must be mega-popular machine. 1633372;1490728368;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: "purchases credited to their accounts"? 1633373;1490728416;mthreat;asciilifeform: it works, but i'm not flying it yet 1633374;1490728450;mircea_popescu;o really ?! 1633375;1490728476;mthreat;ya you need 1000 hours logged to get the type rating 1633376;1490728481;*;asciilifeform still astonished to hear that mthreat returned to gringolandia 1633377;1490728484;mthreat;i don't have that yet 1633378;1490728525;mircea_popescu;1k hours... that's a long, expensive time. 1633379;1490728599;ben_vulpes;flugenhobby 1633380;1490728746;BingoBoingo;ty ben_vulpes fxd 1633381;1490728908;ben_vulpes;BingoBoingo: anytime 1633382;1490728929;mircea_popescu;did we do the huston vs austin texan war yet btw ? 1633383;1490728931;ben_vulpes;where are my copy editing qntra shares 1633384;1490729854;mthreat;actually i just had the houston vs. austin discussion this morning on another channel with some friends! 1633385;1490729859;trinque;mircea_popescu: long as they keep the californians they imported, I'm fine with it. 1633386;1490731262;ben_vulpes;in other adult women and professional photographers: http://68.media.tumblr.com/96cf953ae9a81800daddbc7513aec004/tumblr_o77ggywRgX1qd33wso1_400.jpg 1633387;1490731401;mircea_popescu;hawt 1633388;1490731437;mircea_popescu;meanwhile a la granja, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2abz9XtEC1qmvi83o1_1280.png 1633389;1490732758;mod6;holy smokes 1633390;1490735214;*;BingoBoingo wonder if MP is in Peru 1633391;1490735252;ben_vulpes;since we're doing "the view from behind" today, http://68.media.tumblr.com/59382b0efa68f99f5d194ee1b96e97cc/tumblr_o9fwmu2DQC1urwuzno1_1280.jpg http://68.media.tumblr.com/f7b0b0e4f9350fbe81bdf4d7f2848e0c/tumblr_nrghuclzx91ti7uhjo1_500.gif 1633392;1490735365;ben_vulpes;anywhoodle, provisionally successful with gentoo quest ppc edition 1633393;1490735387;asciilifeform;congrats ben_vulpes 1633394;1490735401;asciilifeform;post recipe? 1633395;1490735465;doppler;what's the target system? 1633396;1490735475;ben_vulpes;the only thing not in the ppc handbook (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:PPC) is that ybin MUST be run from the chroot. 1633397;1490735506;ben_vulpes;doppler: g5 towers 1633398;1490735571;doppler;godspeed 1633399;1490735582;doppler;they're fun, *when they actually work* :) 1633400;1490735608;*;ben_vulpes looks at the working ppc 1633401;1490735625;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: what else would 'recipe' entail? 1633402;1490735637;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes has apparently nominated himself tester of all things bigendian nao!11111 1633403;1490735648;ben_vulpes;ugh 1633404;1490735668;asciilifeform;afaik nobody else has one. 1633405;1490735689;doppler;i've had to deal with lots of broken ones 1633406;1490735701;ben_vulpes;doppler: in what ways do they typically go south? 1633407;1490735761;doppler;power supply failure, liquid coolant leak, and just general motherboard stability 1633408;1490735844;doppler;i suppose in the latter respect, they're no worse than the later G4s 1633409;1490736210;phf;there are no provisions in bitcoin client for endianness support, e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/serialize.h#L124 (that's the basic implementation, but also similarly assumptions are baked into other parts of serialize.h) 1633410;1490736226;asciilifeform;phf: this is quite correct 1633411;1490736241;asciilifeform;it idiotically relies on 'natural' littleendianness. 1633412;1490736259;phf;it idiotically relies on good old struct mapping 1633413;1490736329;asciilifeform;well yes 1633414;1490736330;phf;you could probably get away with just patching serialize.h though since most of the rest of code relies on it (i.e. both networking and fs code) 1633415;1490736488;BingoBoingo;If I recall a certain sede vacantist patched PRB in some way for big endian. 1633416;1490736732;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/us-securities-regulator-denies-another-paper-bitcoin-trading-instrument/ << Qntra - US Securities Regulator Denies Another "Paper Bitcoin" Trading Instrument 1633417;1490738399;ben_vulpes;!!up ohae it's a CompanionCube 1633418;1490738399;deedbot;ohae voiced for 30 minutes. 1633419;1490738408;ben_vulpes;!!up CompanionCube lookie there! 1633420;1490738409;deedbot;CompanionCube voiced for 30 minutes. 1633421;1490738448;CompanionCube;ben_vulpes: greetings. I saw you mention me in the logs. 1633422;1490738474;ben_vulpes;aya, 'tis odd to see a feller rated in the #trilema wot but not...in #trilema 1633423;1490738482;ben_vulpes;welcome! 1633424;1490738549;ben_vulpes;!!v E13742AC2567DEF14AC85727A2080AEFD3F87DCEF19B2B169C0EDB786EBE10A8 1633425;1490738550;deedbot;ben_vulpes rated CompanionCube 1 << new blood 1633426;1490738576;CompanionCube;it was one of the things that tipped me over the fence from 'just reading' to 'might as well join now' 1633427;1490738613;ben_vulpes;should be able to voice yourself now 1633428;1490738719;doppler;CompanionCube: welcome. 1633429;1490738924;ben_vulpes;in re mircea_popescu's classic "girl bouncing around on all fours for a treat": http://68.media.tumblr.com/2dcd3ac18dfdbcd51fe376d5479591cc/tumblr_nratjy81nR1rs6a2oo1_400.gif 1633430;1490739148;shinohai;http://archive.is/t1z2A <<< Jack Dorsey totally understands how this encryption thing works ..... 1633431;1490739262;*;CompanionCube apologizes for the stupidity of the home secretary and UK government 1633432;1490739289;ben_vulpes;you just don't get to run a payment processor in fiatlandia without being on a /really/ short leash. 1633433;1490739349;asciilifeform;shinohai: in fact d00d is more of an 'honest crook' than, e.g., crapple, goes straight to 'my crock of shit is porous and censored', rather than pretenses of 'resistance' 1633434;1490739370;shinohai;Heh, true. 1633435;1490739415;asciilifeform;'you have entered the rape pit, 5 cents / hour' vs 'this is a sanatorium, no rapes in past 150 yrs, honest!1!!!' 1633436;1490739511;Framedragger;CompanionCube: in my view they're just continuing on a well-set path... opportunistically used london terror attack to repeat 'e2e encryption is going away' to acclimatise folks when they're more 'receptive'... etc. 1633437;1490739561;CompanionCube;Framedragger: it's to be expected - this isn't their first time around this merry-go-round obviously. At least Dorsey made sense unlike the homesec 1633438;1490739573;Framedragger;aha yeah. 1633439;1490739609;CompanionCube;David Cameron was doing this same thing more or less the same time last year. 1633440;1490739619;asciilifeform;pretense of non-snooping is ~expensive~ -- good parallel-constructors don't work for minimal wage. 1633441;1490739679;CompanionCube;Encryption backdoors would tail nicely with the Investigatory Powers Act and it's technical capability notices. 1633442;1490739748;ben_vulpes;good luck sticking new backdoors in the old gpg source 1633443;1490739810;shinohai;"We'll just make you new gcc compile backdoors into itself" 1633444;1490739844;CompanionCube;shinohai: that would be at least interesting to look at and analyze 1633445;1490739856;asciilifeform;how many, incidentally, 'coke machine' prisoners in ye olde britain? anybody ever even counted? 1633446;1490739871;phf;no, because gb is roughly as relevant as albania 1633447;1490739882;ben_vulpes;elbonia! 1633448;1490739910;ben_vulpes;http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dilbert/images/5/5b/Elbonia.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150622164352 1633449;1490740374;CompanionCube;well, self-voicing works 1633450;1490740716;asciilifeform;welcome, CompanionCube . 1633451;1490741413;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1633452;1490741420;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1042.61, vol: 9074.60117998 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1038.819, vol: 9835.46768 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1045.0, vol: 26267.13525601 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1002.452307, vol: 5465.05330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1042.133, vol: 4655.17553884 | Volume-weighted last average: 1039.0620549 1633453;1490741476;BingoBoingo;Interior Painting Protip: The right tool for applying paint to surfaces is a 2 inch angle sash brush. 1633454;1490741853;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/P2E9a/?raw=true 1633455;1490741859;pete_dushenski;solid news day 1633456;1490741935;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633392 << wd eh! my new firewire cable just arrived so my openbsd quest can resume once more. fingers crossed. 1633457;1490741935;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 21:09 ben_vulpes: anywhoodle, provisionally successful with gentoo quest ppc edition 1633458;1490742008;ben_vulpes;openbsd settles quite nicely onto old macs 1633459;1490742017;ben_vulpes;what do you need with the firewire cable? 1633460;1490742048;pete_dushenski;for 'target disk mode' from other machine 1633461;1490742057;pete_dushenski;wasn't having any success with usb or cd 1633462;1490742089;ben_vulpes;huh 1633463;1490742100;ben_vulpes;glhf 1633464;1490742111;pete_dushenski;oh i will :) 1633465;1490742123;ben_vulpes;in other "once you capitulate you may never stop capitulating"s: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-28/uber-s-diversity-report-leaves-out-the-most-important-thing 1633466;1490742155;pete_dushenski;also cracked open mathematica 9 last night. lots on the plate! 1633467;1490742244;asciilifeform;didn't i warn folx re mathematica ? 1633468;1490742268;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/dnc-follows-clitlers-lead-fires-entire-staff/ << Qntra - DNC Follows Clitler's Lead, Fires Entire Staff 1633469;1490742296;phf;the only legitimate way of running mathematica is knuth style: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/screen.jpeg 1633470;1490742298;pete_dushenski;you warn folks about looking out window, asciilifeform. watch out for black van stealing your turkey recipes! 1633471;1490742318;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: that ain't it 1633472;1490742326;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: the problem is that it is entirely like a dope habit 1633473;1490742331;asciilifeform;it took asciilifeform YEARS to kick mathematica. 1633474;1490742371;ben_vulpes;what does asciilifeform use instead? maxima? 1633475;1490742379;pete_dushenski;phf: i'm not worthy of knuthdom 1633476;1490742385;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: bare hands 1633477;1490742400;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: aye aye 1633478;1490742402;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: you have a macturd in the logz link in latest qntra 1633479;1490742444;pete_dushenski;o ? 1633480;1490742457;ben_vulpes;space in the "for your leftism" link too, if that's not the turd in q 1633481;1490742460;asciilifeform;under 'leftism' 1633482;1490742462;doppler;phf: -- Motif graphics initialized -- 1633483;1490742469;doppler;phf: except, nope 1633484;1490742484;phf;fvwm 1633485;1490742495;doppler;what about it? 1633486;1490742507;pete_dushenski;BingoBoingo: please to beleet "%20" from last link there 1633487;1490742511;CompanionCube;doppler: except for the nextsteppy clock in the top right 1633488;1490742521;pete_dushenski;asciilifeform: cheers 1633489;1490742529;BingoBoingo;ty fxd 1633490;1490742541;doppler;oh haha, i was referring to mathematica's init message 1633491;1490742547;doppler;love that clock though 1633492;1490742587;phf;oh, you meant "nope" in a sense that you're not going to run it. duly noted. 1633493;1490742694;doppler;why is knuth's username "uno"? 1633494;1490742699;doppler;is he numero uno? 1633495;1490743145;phf;there's probably some obscure reason which warrants a detail footnote in one of this books. or you need to mail him a letter and he'll dedicate a detailed response to it 1633496;1490743162;doppler;hahaha 1633497;1490743227;phf;but apparently he has a chinese name "gao dena" given to him by frances yao 1633498;1490743291;asciilifeform;was that the d00d who drove perelman into exile ? 1633499;1490743315;phf;that's francis yao 1633500;1490743343;asciilifeform;hm. 1633501;1490743476;phf;i think that was huai-dong cao, or maybe it was the xiping zhu. i don't remember now which one of those two was the main guy 1633502;1490743490;asciilifeform;i definitely remember a yao. 1633503;1490743521;phf;oh oh, shing-tung yau 1633504;1490743683;asciilifeform;'In September 2006, Yau established a public relations website, which disputed points in it. Seventeen mathematicians, including two quoted in the New Yorker article, posted letters of strong support. On October 17, 2006, a more sympathetic profile of Yau appeared in The New York Times. ... The article stated that Yau had alienated some colleagues, but represented Yau's position as that Perelman's 1633505;1490743689;asciilifeform;proof was not generally understood and he "had a duty to dig out the truth of the proof". ' -- pediw. 1633506;1490743692;asciilifeform;lol. 1633507;1490743819;*;asciilifeform aspires to OneDay achieve the mega-highscore of writing a thing that 'requires' a chinese 'digger of truth'... 1633508;1490743888;phf;pretty sure can go to china now, ghost write for their mathematical aristocracy. it's now a well established russian tradition 1633509;1490743977;asciilifeform;i did it right here in usa, lol 1633510;1490743979;asciilifeform;pays moar. 1633511;1490743984;asciilifeform;sucks ==. 1633512;1490744540;ben_vulpes;welp emacs ~works on the ppc, insofar as emacs can be said to work 1633513;1490744551;asciilifeform;why the ~ 1633514;1490744555;asciilifeform;what unworks 1633515;1490744574;ben_vulpes;org-babel shat itself when a directory in the tempfiles path didn't exist up front 1633516;1490744605;ben_vulpes;or perhaps the temporary file machinery itself shat itself 1633517;1490744659;ben_vulpes;either way, i crufted some state onto the station and it works now. 1633518;1490744917;phf;if you're going to try crosscompiling things from one openbsd machine to your older ppc boxes make sure you have the right os versions set. the abi changes, and that bit me a few times 1633519;1490744937;asciilifeform;phf: does static linking work on openbsd ? 1633520;1490744968;phf;yes 1633521;1490745034;phf;in fact, i static linked a copy of trb on a recent machine (5.6 say), and then moved it to a libretto (that was running 5.3 or whatever) and the binary booted and worked, but then silently failed on some system calls. 1633522;1490745046;asciilifeform;ugh 1633523;1490745050;phf;yeah, exactly. 1633524;1490745051;asciilifeform;that doesn't sound like 'static linking works' 1633525;1490745059;asciilifeform;it sounds like 'pretends to work' 1633526;1490745062;asciilifeform;a la glibc. 1633527;1490745103;phf;it's not the static linking that gets you, it's the lack of stable abi. binary loads, but fails to do the right thing on system call 1633528;1490745133;asciilifeform;phf: this was the original drepperist excuse for 'shadow banning' static linking, 'oh forget it, no MODERN!11 os has a stable abi' 1633529;1490745289;phf;"we shat in your soup. we then threw out all the soup utensils, who eats soup with shit anyway, fuck is wrong wit you!1" 1633530;1490745358;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu's 'tv raft'. 1633531;1490745387;asciilifeform;>> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 1633532;1490745387;a111;Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b 1633533;1490745442;asciilifeform;from what phf has described ( and from my own experiments ) it is not clear to me that openbsd is salvageable . 1633534;1490745465;asciilifeform;( possibly -- if some hero devotes several years to it, trb-style -- but even then ) 1633535;1490745660;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633295 all the way 1633536;1490745660;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 17:51 jurov: http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/ Original SystemV sources published 1633537;1490745905;ben_vulpes;phf: gentoo for now 1633538;1490745970;phf;i just opened an openbsd laptop a second ago and it greeted me with ddb (kernel debugger on panic) 1633539;1490746089;asciilifeform;and i thought my openbsd 'libretto' that loses its x11 frame buffer was rotten 1633540;1490746101;phf;this is an x60 too 1633541;1490746120;asciilifeform;pretty sad. 1633542;1490746128;asciilifeform;where exactly does it work reliably. 1633543;1490746134;asciilifeform;..vax? 1633544;1490746227;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633390 << nope. though great guess, peru is pretty cool. 1633545;1490746227;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 21:06 BingoBoingo wonder if MP is in Peru 1633546;1490746250;asciilifeform;i was hoping for peru!111 land of delish guinea pig steak. 1633547;1490746282;asciilifeform;( what places even left, that nobody's guessed yet.. ) 1633548;1490746296;asciilifeform;only hint so far is that it's a donkeystan 1633549;1490746301;mircea_popescu;i am enjoying a newfound love of "el condor pasa" btw. it's a fucking epic song if one reads the ORIGINAL SPANISH TEXT. 1633550;1490746302;asciilifeform;but this isn't much to go on. 1633551;1490746309;asciilifeform;aha SPAIN! 1633552;1490746313;mircea_popescu;rather than the dorky usgistan cover lyurics. 1633553;1490746320;asciilifeform;well not spain, but spanish lands 1633554;1490746369;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes check it out, naked slut entering cvasi-whats-that-triangle-thing-called ! 1633555;1490746382;phf;could be spain proper 1633556;1490746420;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633409 << correct. 1633557;1490746420;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 21:23 phf: there are no provisions in bitcoin client for endianness support, e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/serialize.h#L124 (that's the basic implementation, but also similarly assumptions are baked into other parts of serialize.h) 1633558;1490746446;mircea_popescu;o hai phf. but no, isn't in leon-y-castillia 1633559;1490746486;asciilifeform;aww, just when i thought mircea_popescu might have gone to help the basques nail the occupant scum 1633560;1490746520;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform what, with the fleet under wing, "this is eagle-1, standby for launch over." 1633561;1490746545;asciilifeform;nah, as partizan commander 1633562;1490746612;mircea_popescu;buncha girls naked but for the aks... i could see it. 1633563;1490746651;asciilifeform;Hasta siempre, Comandante!111 1633564;1490746698;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633429 << we did https://68.media.tumblr.com/fa9a2501411802f10f1ddcaf88a17b7f/tumblr_o218aqlfjI1sk3xdpo1_500.gif I take it ? 1633565;1490746698;a111;Logged on 2017-03-28 22:08 ben_vulpes: in re mircea_popescu's classic "girl bouncing around on all fours for a treat": http://68.media.tumblr.com/2dcd3ac18dfdbcd51fe376d5479591cc/tumblr_nratjy81nR1rs6a2oo1_400.gif 1633566;1490746700;*;shinohai now has an idea to reswell the ranks of FARC with camhos .... 1633567;1490746722;mircea_popescu;!#s "fa9a2501411802f10f1ddcaf88a17b7f" 1633568;1490746722;a111;3 results for "\"fa9a2501411802f10f1ddcaf88a17b7f\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22fa9a2501411802f10f1ddcaf88a17b7f%22 1633569;1490746748;mircea_popescu;so we did. 1633570;1490746792;mircea_popescu;shinohai i thought the farc finally went on the govt dole last month. 1633571;1490746794;phf;sort of how spk was training a group of schizophrenics for revolutionary activity, making bombs, etc. the whole place blew up. 1633572;1490746830;mircea_popescu;Sermaye Piyasası Kurulu ? 1633573;1490746854;mircea_popescu;i suppose this'd hafta be sermaye pizdiasi kurgolu 1633574;1490746867;phf;sozialistisches patientenkollektiv 1633575;1490746892;mircea_popescu;(the turkish sec, for a lol) 1633576;1490747026;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170328/#547 << an blair was doing the exact same thing ten fucking years ago. 1633577;1490747027;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-28: [22:20:09] David Cameron was doing this same thing more or less the same time last year. 1633578;1490747208;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170328/#579 << for some reason "Exec exec unclutter" made me lol. i expect i don't understand how thr world etc. 1633579;1490747208;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:04:56] the only legitimate way of running mathematica is knuth style: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/screen.jpeg 1633580;1490747292;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170328/#586 <<< aaahahahaha!!!1 o brother! >>> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630254 1633581;1490747292;a111;Logged on 2017-03-21 01:45 asciilifeform: quite srsly, i'd like to know : phf now uses what? 'ed' ? does he still write programs for money ? in commonlisp? in selfsame 'ed' ? 1633582;1490747292;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:06:25] ben_vulpes: bare hands 1633583;1490747302;mircea_popescu;why is everything so lulzy all the time! why! 1633584;1490747440;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633557 << i've been greatly enjoying not needing ANY of that nonsense in 'nqb' 1633585;1490747440;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 00:13 a111: Logged on 2017-03-28 21:23 phf: there are no provisions in bitcoin client for endianness support, e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/makefiles/tree/bitcoin/src/serialize.h#L124 (that's the basic implementation, but also similarly assumptions are baked into other parts of serialize.h) 1633586;1490747478;asciilifeform;( and fought, successfully, the temptation to release the thing before the mmap'd replaces-all-the-db-and-indices thing is properly done ) 1633587;1490747615;asciilifeform;btw storing actual physical locations in all of the places where a tx refers to other tx, saves megatonne of time as well as space. (and in case it isn't obvious, it remains possible to reconstitute the original tx, noshit, we store the 256-bit sha2(sha2(x)) hash of a tx ONCE on the disk -- or whole thing'd be useless ) 1633588;1490747765;asciilifeform;outputs also get a place to store 'who-spent', which is an index to the input who spends them (if such exists.) this is practical because the main db is not affected by reorgs (only 'nursery' is. currently i've defined 'nursery' to store the leading train of 144 blox. this is adjustible.) 1633589;1490747770;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170328/#615 >> bwahahaha 1633590;1490747770;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:28:09] proof was not generally understood and he "had a duty to dig out the truth of the proof". ' -- pediw. 1633591;1490747794;mircea_popescu;fwiw, whichj isn't much, i don't expect perelman gave much of a shit about it all before, either. not exactly "driven into" or anythjing 1633592;1490747802;asciilifeform;'driven' may be wrong word. 1633593;1490747825;mircea_popescu;"who the fuck are yo uto be giving me awards anyway" might well have been set to happen regardless. 1633594;1490748103;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: one mega-q is what to do with the knobs that never got turned, but could turn. e.g., sequence numbers. 1633595;1490748114;mircea_popescu;this is so. 1633596;1490748126;asciilifeform;theoretically trb & prb permit 'tx replacement' idiocy 1633597;1490748186;mircea_popescu;especially because ineptly unspecified design space creates the latter possibility of a sort of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632676 which is entirely "legitimate" ie perfectly silent 1633598;1490748186;a111;Logged on 2017-03-26 15:06 mp_en_viaje: wuille comes along, "expands" for the africa box A. now the design is broken, in that item in B will correspond to both a and a' 1633599;1490748192;mircea_popescu;"oh, knob now cooks frogs. problem ?" 1633600;1490748201;asciilifeform;aha, specifically this 1633601;1490748205;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1633602;1490748213;mircea_popescu;i dunno how we correctly sear this open sore. 1633603;1490748253;mircea_popescu;"design is fucking hard -- you gotta specify ALL you gotta specify AND NO MORE!!1" sigh. 1633604;1490748272;asciilifeform;i must confess, this is 90% of the work there will be, in any attempt to convert nqb into a btctron. 1633605;1490748280;mircea_popescu;i expect. 1633606;1490748294;mircea_popescu;what was the initialism standing for, did i miss ? 1633607;1490748295;asciilifeform;( as it is, it is simply a REALLY fast block and tx flow explorer ) 1633608;1490748300;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'not quite bitcoin' 1633609;1490748333;mircea_popescu;ah 1633610;1490748339;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170328/#637 << this incidentally is a very fine point. 1633611;1490748339;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:51:43] it's not the static linking that gets you, it's the lack of stable abi. binary loads, but fails to do the right thing on system call 1633612;1490748346;asciilifeform;it is a proggy that came out of asciilifeform's slow adaization of all known-permanent bitcoin protocol 1633613;1490748347;mircea_popescu;"my stove dun work", fine, but it isn't because the gas is wet. 1633614;1490748429;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: presently it eats blocks and tx in a heapless and demonstrably nonoverflowable way, into a general-purpose fixed space (no tx can >1MB) representation that is operable in O(1) 1633615;1490748444;mircea_popescu;this is rather nice a model. 1633616;1490748451;asciilifeform;(i.e. fetching an output or input is a simple array access) 1633617;1490748523;asciilifeform;these will end up 'interned', i.e. represented in the db, in such a way that any tx referred to inside a tx is fetched in O(1) 1633618;1490748532;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170328/#644 << "the stain will remain!!1" 1633619;1490748533;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:57:45] ( possibly -- if some hero devotes several years to it, trb-style -- but even then ) 1633620;1490748536;mircea_popescu;not even a joke, this. 1633621;1490748542;asciilifeform;(because the reference is a simple integer, showing where thing is found!) 1633622;1490748552;asciilifeform;stains -- always remain. 1633623;1490748563;mircea_popescu;myeah. the blockstain. 1633624;1490748686;mircea_popescu;to continue the "bikers are human too" thread, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1m5dbf9Rn1qe8p5xo1_1280.jpg 1633625;1490748990;mircea_popescu;in other oh wows, elena udrea (ro slut politician, quite successful. http://trilema.com/2009/super-terrific-caption-hour-part-i/ ) got convicted for nothing in particular (her party no longer in power), 5 years. 1633626;1490749015;mircea_popescu;i dunno that at any point since henry was the "legal system" so much of a joke. 1633627;1490749041;asciilifeform;ye olde natostan 1633628;1490749073;mircea_popescu;43 yo, unsuspended sentence 1633629;1490749079;mircea_popescu;it dun look good for clitler, fwtw. 1633630;1490749169;asciilifeform;what was it, 'corruption' ?? 1633631;1490749394;mircea_popescu;obv. 1633632;1490749406;mircea_popescu;wth else. witchcraft. 1633633;1490750810;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in colombia, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1wpejDo6f1r4e6vso1_1280.jpg 1633634;1490752079;shinohai;Why yes, I *do* want to follow you upstairs. 1633635;1490752389;mircea_popescu;lel 1633636;1490758796;asciilifeform;phunphakt : the only synthetic cloth fiber that isn't shit ( as, e.g., nylon : flammable, melts on skin, crumbling under sunlight, etc ) is made in... north kr! >> https://fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/facility/industry38.htm 1633637;1490758805;asciilifeform;needs 0 petro, even. 1633638;1490758843;asciilifeform;and apparently jp finally has a pilot plant, http://www.unitika.co.jp/vinylon/e/vinylon/index.html 1633639;1490759149;asciilifeform;invented, incidentally, by d00d who was fired from professorship by usg colonizers of south kr; fled north. 1633640;1490761276;BingoBoingo; where exactly does it work reliably. << AMD E350 board works splendidly 1633641;1490766661;mircea_popescu;some of the new microfibers aren't bad. 1633642;1490766677;mircea_popescu;!!key pablosanchez 1633643;1490766678;deedbot;http://wot.deedbot.org/3994674855BFE2FEB424C61AE132E59120368DFB.asc 1633644;1490767650;deedbot;http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/29/canadian-economic-bitcoin-nodes-more-like-canadian-derpatronic-altcoin-hoes/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Canadian Economic [Bitcoin] Nodes? More like Canadian Derpatronic Altcoin Hoes. 1633645;1490767986;ben_vulpes;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92bmIf6B_w 1633646;1490768010;ben_vulpes;the waves are just 1633647;1490768012;ben_vulpes;very /large/ 1633648;1490768084;mircea_popescu;o wow, 6-7 meters high huh 1633649;1490768821;mircea_popescu;meanwhile in romantic dinners, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2lc7aCRQx1r9ms9mo1_1280.jpg 1633650;1490768844;ben_vulpes;now tickle her feet 1633651;1490768857;mircea_popescu;no mercy, huh 1633652;1490769152;mircea_popescu;pete_dushenski lol what the fuck. canadian bitcoin orange revolution!! 1633653;1490769201;mircea_popescu;"we represent the whole world*!!!" * as understood by whatever 3rd echelon bureaucrat in the us dept of our democracy that "handles" "canada". 1633654;1490770043;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-02#1184584 << ho ho ho stumbled over this personally relevant gem looking for something else entirely... 1633655;1490770043;a111;Logged on 2015-07-02 21:36 phf: mircea_popescu: i'll keep that i mind. i'd like to give it a try, but i still have memories of tedium and despair from last time i tried building a crystal space project on mac 1633656;1490770097;mircea_popescu;lel 1633657;1490770112;mircea_popescu;didja get blender to stand up yet ? 1633658;1490770171;ben_vulpes;not yet, no 1633659;1490770188;mircea_popescu;;/ 1633660;1490770193;ben_vulpes;thick thick trenchfoot 1633661;1490770204;mircea_popescu;son of a bitch. wtf is its current problem ? 1633662;1490770214;ben_vulpes;on one iteration it popped an x11 window and then segfaulted! 1633663;1490770226;mircea_popescu;are you doing it for the mac ? 1633664;1490770237;ben_vulpes;the req'd historical version does not even begin to run on current os x 1633665;1490770245;mircea_popescu;aha 1633666;1490770252;ben_vulpes;VERY SURPRISINGLY 1633667;1490770277;ben_vulpes;i have more permutations and combinations to run 1633668;1490770311;mircea_popescu;i hope you're keeping very elaboratedly detailed notes 1633669;1490770312;mircea_popescu;for your blog. 1633670;1490770322;ben_vulpes;poor neglected blog 1633671;1490770328;ben_vulpes;drift slut gets all the attention these days 1633672;1490770359;mircea_popescu;if you're doing all the trenching anyway, actually documenting it is not much more load, and totally worth it. 1633673;1490770390;ben_vulpes;i take entirely adequate notes, tyvm 1633674;1490770403;mircea_popescu;cool 1633675;1490770452;ben_vulpes;if you don't you end up like gabriel_laddel_p 1633676;1490770460;mircea_popescu;howssat 1633677;1490770477;ben_vulpes;mess of incantations locked in his head, hasta actually bang on each and every box 1633678;1490770494;mircea_popescu;i always thought that was by choice rather than necessity. 1633679;1490770510;mircea_popescu;there's a certain artisan's "i will touch all the items" vein in there. 1633680;1490770582;ben_vulpes;who could even really say 1633681;1490770604;ben_vulpes;oops there i go being nonjudgemental again 1633682;1490770612;mircea_popescu;in other random lulz : there are many diseases of the foot, all of them rather similar : capilaries die, then the skin gets colonized by fungus and bacteria, then the nerves die and then gangrene sets in. frostbite is not necessary ; nor is diabethes -- something as simple as keeping the feet in warm mud for half a day, or wet for a few days in the same socks will do it. 1633683;1490770644;mircea_popescu;this, as you might imagine, was a major problem in ww1, which is why it's even called "trench foot". it was then discovered the best solution to the problem is pairing all the soldiers and having each responsible for the feet of the other 1633684;1490770655;mircea_popescu;because if it's your own feet, you may well not be bothered to dry them out each day. 1633685;1490770710;mircea_popescu;this directly relates to the sad observation of labour activists in the 19th century, that labour is entirely disinterested in its own welfare, and will readily take jobs ~well known~ to be harmful, overly risky, etc. (radium girls go right in here). 1633686;1490770746;mircea_popescu;they drew the conclusion that optionality is not enough, and work safety must be provided through regulation. 1633687;1490770774;ben_vulpes;'army of lovers' / http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-17#1614973 1633688;1490770774;a111;Logged on 2017-02-17 05:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the washing thing is a serious problem. turns out that if no women around, people stop seeing the point. 1633689;1490770787;mircea_popescu;also relates, i bet. 1633690;1490770797;ben_vulpes;although i imagine less 'army of lovers' and more 'everyone who *didn't* shit in the codebase is doing pushups' 1633691;1490770805;mircea_popescu;lol 1633692;1490770841;mircea_popescu;it's a fact though, she's going to keep herself cleaner for you than she's going to for herself ; and this stands even if you don't say anything. 1633693;1490771134;ben_vulpes;'woman -- lives for man. man -- lives for beer.' 1633694;1490771151;mircea_popescu;eh get out. who do you know that actually lives for beer ? 1633695;1490771164;mircea_popescu;alcoholics usually have better taste than soda swill. 1633696;1490771164;ben_vulpes;come now, not serious in the slightest 1633697;1490771177;mircea_popescu;no, you said! 1633698;1490771189;ben_vulpes;could just have readily have been 'conquest' if i were in a pandering mood 1633699;1490771217;ben_vulpes;unrelatedly, this isn't entirely inscrutable: https://github.com/cforler/Ada-Crypto-Library/blob/master/src/crypto-asymmetric-ecdsa.adb#L79 1633700;1490771370;ben_vulpes;the implicit return of previously-defined return values or whatever-the-hell-is-actually-going-on there is pretty nifty 1633701;1490771382;*;ben_vulpes has clearly not read the ada books 1633702;1490771427;*;ben_vulpes also off 1633703;1490772384;mircea_popescu;http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/good-shit-sign-me-the-fuck-up << the fucking cancer. tl;dr : random transvestite mashed kbd last year, this is now documented as if it somehow mattered. 1633704;1490774902;mircea_popescu;in other lulz, mosul successfuly conquered ; russian reports of mass bombing of civilians entirely untrue. don't fall for fake imitations, always read only the genuinotrue Real News (tm) ! 1633705;1490781015;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/spurious-graphs-and-such/ << Trilema - Spurious graphs and such 1633706;1490786080;jurov;https://www.quantamagazine.org/20170328-statistician-proves-gaussian-correlation-inequality/ << yet other ppl avoid both mathematica and LaTeX and use...Word. 1633707;1490789023;asciilifeform;omfg jurov mathematica ain't a typesetting system! 1633708;1490789051;asciilifeform;( in principle, it can be abused as one, but only because it knows how to shit latex ) 1633709;1490789282;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633699 << it is a notbad library to study (no external deps!) -- but it DOES use heap. 1633710;1490789282;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 07:06 ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, this isn't entirely inscrutable: https://github.com/cforler/Ada-Crypto-Library/blob/master/src/crypto-asymmetric-ecdsa.adb#L79 1633711;1490789401;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633641 << what do they do in a fire ? under sunlight ? in acids ? can you make them without any petro ? 1633712;1490789401;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 05:51 mircea_popescu: some of the new microfibers aren't bad. 1633713;1490790192;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633679 << hey, d00d specialized in 'building space lift is easy, all you gotta do is to stack rocks like-so' 1633714;1490790192;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 06:55 mircea_popescu: there's a certain artisan's "i will touch all the items" vein in there. 1633715;1490790246;asciilifeform;this is not 'artisan', in my pov, but something like what small children do, brute force algo 1633716;1490790318;asciilifeform;brute force can even get results if the problem is inherently susceptible (e.g. clearing mine field) -- or, failing that, if at least one bothers to start from unexplored point in solution space 1633717;1490790325;asciilifeform;but neither applies to him 1633718;1490790581;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633701 << i regret to inform ben_vulpes that reading the book (pick anything that is about ada95 or post) is actually necessary -- a number of things (e.g., the very 'fascist' access variable rules) will make 0 sense until you do 1633719;1490790581;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 07:09 ben_vulpes has clearly not read the ada books 1633720;1490791781;mod6;mornin' 1633721;1490791831;mod6;i have to say that some of the ada stuff is a bit non-obvious by syntax only. 1633722;1490791860;mod6;i've been going through ada95, and it helps with some of the weird stuff like X` and P` or whatever. 1633723;1490793426;asciilifeform;mod6: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ada_Programming/Attributes << almost all of the attributes, in helpful list 1633724;1490793620;asciilifeform;fwiw the part i found most painful was the 'access' (pointer) rules. generally you can't have a pointer unless you can demonstrate that it can never dangle 1633725;1490793643;asciilifeform;(or use 'unchecked' but then you may as well write in c ) 1633726;1490793679;mod6;thanks for the link. 1633727;1490793706;mod6;yah, im not sure im quite there yet. what i really need to start in on is a decent enough sample program. 1633728;1490793757;mod6;something to get into it a bit, but not too deep. before I try to dig into anything on the btctron level. 1633729;1490793800;mod6;was thinking maybe something V-like, since it's fresh in my mind. but the string manip might get tedious and ugly and detract from the overall goal. 1633730;1490793852;mod6;will think on sample projects to get me into the groove. 1633731;1490793853;asciilifeform;mod6: http://ideone.com/a1ky4l << mandelbrot in ada. 1633732;1490793860;*;mod6 looks 1633733;1490793955;mod6;right, ya, something like that. i've got the links to all the sample proggies from before too. so, maybe i'll extend one of them, or that one, or make my own. 1633734;1490793995;asciilifeform;there is no substitute for actually writing proggies, aha 1633735;1490794039;mod6;yeah, def. i learn best by doing, indeed. 1633736;1490794067;asciilifeform;ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open the book and grasp the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result. 1633737;1490794104;mod6;i've quite noticed that actually. i was trying to figure out "packages" and did an evening worth of headbanging. 1633738;1490794115;mod6;over something that should have been totally trivial. 1633739;1490794154;asciilifeform;then later it dawns on you that the 'could have been trivial' would have been at the cost of becoming c. 1633740;1490794175;mod6;right. fair enough. and reasonable advise. 1633741;1490794194;asciilifeform;the pointer rules are the clearest case of this. 1633742;1490794208;asciilifeform;in most cases you can't even point to a thing in ~your current scope~ 1633743;1490794222;asciilifeform;because machine has nfi which items in ~current~ scope will go out of scope first... 1633744;1490794258;mod6;yah hmm. 1633745;1490794318;mod6;I hope it's not too prohibitive. 1633746;1490794371;asciilifeform;mod6: in principle you can always beg compiler for mercy and introduce 'unchecked', c-isms. or even (1 line, in fact) import arbitrary c. 1633747;1490794384;asciilifeform;but it is only 'last resort' 1633748;1490794422;asciilifeform;and more or less any problem that doesn't involve os calls, can be solved in some other way. 1633749;1490794465;asciilifeform;but it does require letting go of n decades of 'c thinking', where you reflexively litter the proggy with pointers to whatevers 1633750;1490794685;asciilifeform;there ~are~ considerable wins in convenience -- you can ask an array how big it is; and where it starts/ends (indices are not from zero, but can be from anything to anything, as can types -- you can have a type 'integers from 12 to 15', say.) 1633751;1490794904;asciilifeform;but yes, you will do 2-3x the work, subjectively, as when writing c proggy. but it is not ~wasted~ work, just as the work of using v instead of 'git' etc. is not wasted. 1633752;1490794915;asciilifeform;the end result -- is different. 1633753;1490795189;*;shinohai finds V far easier than git now for some reason ..... 1633754;1490795303;asciilifeform;i don't bring them up together out of superficial similarity, but from fundamental one -- v rejects 'merge' as a concept; ada rejects the promiscuous pointer and cast 1633755;1490795325;asciilifeform;both are items 'civilians' are quite accustomed to, to the point of 'how the fuck can anyone even think of living without' 1633756;1490795397;asciilifeform;eventually one -- learns. and then you begin to see the monkeys who 'why should i have to look for a special place before taking a shit, i can do it wherever' as the loathesome things they are. 1633757;1490796808;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://archive.is/3Ycl6 >> kako finally turns off +m , and it is revealed! that the 'gimme money pleeez' folx still exist. just as years ago. 1633758;1490797421;shinohai;I think those types will always exist .... I found it mirthful that they showed up in the comments section of the dao hacker article on trilema. 1633759;1490797993;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu 1633760;1490798001;mircea_popescu;hola! 1633761;1490798009;asciilifeform;how's the new bananistan 1633762;1490798038;mircea_popescu;pondering whether ima need to order generators etc. 1633763;1490798074;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633707 << eh get out!1 ofcourseitis 1633764;1490798074;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 12:03 asciilifeform: omfg jurov mathematica ain't a typesetting system! 1633765;1490798164;*;asciilifeform pulls out map, for guess o'the'day : 1633766;1490798168;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: salvador. 1633767;1490798177;mircea_popescu;not salvador. 1633768;1490798180;asciilifeform;aw. 1633769;1490798193;mircea_popescu;this is gonna be more fun than i had thought. 1633770;1490798209;asciilifeform;it's gonna end up a trick, 'ahaha i'm on OTHER END of buenos aires', lel 1633771;1490798262;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633711 << buy a new car take the "upholstery" apart, it's 99% gonna be microfiber. what does it do under sun ? nothing. if you pour coke on it ? nothing. if you pour sulphuric acid it melts, for sure. 1633772;1490798262;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 12:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633641 << what do they do in a fire ? under sunlight ? in acids ? can you make them without any petro ? 1633773;1490798277;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: behind glass is not 'under sun', ~no uv 1633774;1490798277;mircea_popescu;that's polyester/polyamide extruded a certain way 1633775;1490798303;mircea_popescu;the original item is of course goretex, 1960s tech, where you heat teflon and suddenly pull on it, makes this 8-9-1k% the size microporous structure. 1633776;1490798327;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so buy a used convertible in la. 1633777;1490798352;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: don't these typically have leather inside ? 1633778;1490798355;mircea_popescu;also go to five star hotel, check out their towels. or buy one of those new and cuddly bathrobes for gf. also microfiber 1633779;1490798366;asciilifeform;( even my fairly ordinary auto -- is all leather ) 1633780;1490798370;mircea_popescu;it's no longer legal to make items with animal leatherf in the us pretty sure. 1633781;1490798382;asciilifeform;waiwat 1633782;1490798387;mircea_popescu;animal products yo. 1633783;1490798390;shinohai;My guess of the day: Belize 1633784;1490798399;asciilifeform;shinohai: we already had belize 1633785;1490798408;mircea_popescu;lawyer sent me memo ten years ago "careful about taking your cane on trip, they're insane" etc. 1633786;1490798423;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc there was a ban on 'red book' animals etc 1633787;1490798426;asciilifeform;not beef. 1633788;1490798433;mircea_popescu;what can i tell ye. 1633789;1490798442;shinohai;ack missed that - cat logs.txt | grep 'whereindafuqismircea_popescu' 1633790;1490798473;mircea_popescu;actually i can tell ye this : in the above context, "not legal" also includes situations where it's technically legal but more expensive to comply than worth bothering (worth as defined by mass scale producers) 1633791;1490798556;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: on my home planet this was known as 'Докажи, что ты не верблюд' 1633792;1490798561;asciilifeform;'prove that you are not a camel' 1633793;1490798610;asciilifeform;originates from old tale : a hare is galloping across the steppe. he meets a wolf, who asks : 1633794;1490798621;asciilifeform;'why are you running like mad?' 1633795;1490798626;mircea_popescu;anyway, the greater point here being that the last battle for sanity is being fought : after chem killind most everything ("ecoleather" destroyed leather industry, for instance, rayon/nylon murdered silk, fake news killed linen etc etc), cotton, the last survival natural fiber is under attack. 1633796;1490798642;mircea_popescu;it's a point of fact microfibre feels softer, and that's probably that. 1633797;1490798643;asciilifeform;hare : 'i heard they catch camels round here, and when caught, you get buggered, then castrated' 1633798;1490798655;asciilifeform;wolf : 'so what the fuck are you worried about, you ain't a camel' 1633799;1490798675;asciilifeform;hare : 'ah, but see, they'll take you in, bugger, castrate, THEN go and prove that you ain't a camel.' 1633800;1490798675;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform haha. mmmyeah. 1633801;1490798745;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc vinylon (aka 'juche fiber', i shit thee not) not only feels slightly stiffer than nylon, but is undyable 1633802;1490798750;BingoBoingo; this is gonna be more fun than i had thought. << Ecuador? 1633803;1490798752;asciilifeform;which was the absolute deal-killer for the phree world. 1633804;1490798765;asciilifeform;(plus is that it never fades or gets visibly dirty) 1633805;1490798808;mircea_popescu;BingoBoingo nope. iirc was also guessed already ? 1633806;1490798835;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform juche fiber eh ? lol. 1633807;1490798847;BingoBoingo;Well I was going to guess Liberia, but you said unsure about generators 1633808;1490798880;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: re camels, see also mega-poem, https://www.stihi.ru/2012/01/19/6202 1633809;1490798898;BingoBoingo;Juche fiber is best fiber, from best people, for Best Korea 1633810;1490798915;mircea_popescu;the only worthy equiv in ro is the one with the hedgehog's hole which im sure i recounted. 1633811;1490798944;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: chile? 1633812;1490798960;mircea_popescu;tis not chile, which is why i had french wine with my fish yest. 1633813;1490798991;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: north kr was exporting high quality industrial gear when south kr was == congo 1633814;1490799012;BingoBoingo;Which is why BEST korea 1633815;1490799041;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform so what. turkey was building the first university when england was == mongolia. 1633816;1490799153;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633724 << speaking of верблюд lol 1633817;1490799153;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 13:20 asciilifeform: fwiw the part i found most painful was the 'access' (pointer) rules. generally you can't have a pointer unless you can demonstrate that it can never dangle 1633818;1490799252;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633736 << this might actually be crucial ingredient in any drepper-safe item. 1633819;1490799252;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 13:27 asciilifeform: ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open the book and grasp the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result. 1633820;1490799264;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: aha! 1633821;1490799268;asciilifeform;iirc we had a small thread about this. 1633822;1490799275;mircea_popescu;one or two ya 1633823;1490799475;mircea_popescu;and a few about having a http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/#selection-177.0-189.40 aka expert sex change. 1633824;1490799589;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633751 << quite. like work in cleaning operating room before operating is not wasted. "I JUST WANNA GET TO THE KNIFIGN!!" "then might i suggest a back alley knife fight somewhere ?" 1633825;1490799589;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 13:41 asciilifeform: but yes, you will do 2-3x the work, subjectively, as when writing c proggy. but it is not ~wasted~ work, just as the work of using v instead of 'git' etc. is not wasted. 1633826;1490799835;asciilifeform;^ 1633827;1490799957;mircea_popescu;"this is surgery among my tribe" scarce consolation / legal defense. 1633828;1490800106;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is interesting that programmers often lament 'we have no union', but in fact managed a 'confederacy of dunces' so strong and monolithic that they get away with crapola that'd get any other kind of artisan, mass-hanged 1633829;1490800179;asciilifeform;builders, for instance, who thought 'i'll just lay a pile of whatevers and call it a house' were buried alive by fucking hammurabi. 1633830;1490800189;asciilifeform;well-deservedly. 1633831;1490800530;diana_coman;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633736 <- I actually think that is a characteristic worth knowing how to replicate in one's own programs: after all the horrors I saw, I quite find it a bad thing that well done code tends to be basically too forgiving on idiots 1633832;1490800530;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 13:27 asciilifeform: ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open the book and grasp the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result. 1633833;1490800659;asciilifeform;see also, diana_coman , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-14#1482737 1633834;1490800659;a111;Logged on 2016-06-14 14:25 asciilifeform: did we ever do a 'postel's law not only considered harmful but a disaster of epic proportions, quite comparable to leaded petrol' thread ? 1633835;1490800680;asciilifeform;or, hm, rather http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-11#1366610 . 1633836;1490800680;a111;Logged on 2016-01-11 16:56 ascii_butugychag: for n00bz, 'postel's law' went something like 'be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept.' 1633837;1490800684;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform either h or gravity lol 1633838;1490800828;mircea_popescu;diana_coman this is a problem more fundamental than code. consider : well run us, relying on the wealth amassed by people whose toes today's imbeciles aren't qualified to kiss, the carnegies and rockefellers and etc of the golden age, readily allowed inept management the APPEARANCE of working, at least initially. 1970s us still appeared like it has a future, notwithstanding it had all the future of argentina. why ? because pi 1633839;1490800828;mircea_popescu;le of preexisting wealth makes it unapparent just how idiotic mark cuban / virgin branson / dan voiculescu / etc actually are. 1633840;1490800887;asciilifeform;orlol called it 'catabolic collapse' 1633841;1490800918;asciilifeform;where there's enough stored fat not to notice that intake has stopped 1633842;1490800924;mircea_popescu;also consider how methyl alcohol poisoning works (you ever wondered how the rfuck is it possible this STILL occurs today ?) : there's a sudden transition from dosing which the body absorbs without signal to dose wich renders one blind. the animal, without exception, ends up with a source of methyl alcohol. drinks some, is ok. drinks some more tomorrow, is ok. then goes to wedding/party/is depressed, drinks a lot. is blind. 1633843;1490800932;mircea_popescu;"but it was ok before" "yes, and you're a rodent." 1633844;1490800958;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform quite exactly, these systems with delayed backfeed are generally beyond the ability of the common human brain to administer. 1633845;1490800962;diana_coman;certainly more fundamental; I talked about code because I write code, not because the issue is not clearly visible otherwise 1633846;1490800967;mircea_popescu;yeah. 1633847;1490801027;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the term i usually use is 'ecological problem' -- and it is tricky, because how do you demonstrate that something is one, beyond dispute. this may be why various derps like to go straight to masquerading as ecologists... 1633848;1490801042;mircea_popescu;and that's just how the code trap works too : it takes a while for the cost of shitty practices to accrue to the point where it exceeds the cost of having used alternative practices. 1633849;1490801063;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu has a thread a few days ago re sister-fucking, as example 1633850;1490801068;mircea_popescu;which is why 2012 btc dev team thinks mp is being eccentric and couldn't possibly ever get wiped. 1633851;1490801072;phf;fwiw ada is a harsh mistress is an illusion. if it were to become fashionable to write ada among the hacker news crowd, there will be rapid attempts at modernization. common lisp went through that process 1633852;1490801084;mircea_popescu;phf yeh i recall that threat. 1633853;1490801086;mircea_popescu;thread* 1633854;1490801087;diana_coman;but essentially it is so far the only sort of approach that stands a chance against the mass of idiots basically; still a field of study for me re actual deployment, but anyways 1633855;1490801104;asciilifeform;phf: i have a hard time picturing said 'modernization' as looking like anything other than 'let's turn it into cpp' 1633856;1490801110;mircea_popescu;and ? 1633857;1490801123;mircea_popescu;understand, there's dorks on tardstalk TODAY going "oh, mp keeps saying things and they keep not happening." 1633858;1490801124;asciilifeform;then again, i could be wrong, they could shit out 'tools' that 'autogenerate the hard parts' or whatnot. 1633859;1490801134;phf;etc. 1633860;1490801135;mircea_popescu;there's absolutely no meaning involved in the affairs of the subhuman. 1633861;1490801139;asciilifeform;phf: it'd be entertaining to see what, exactly, they'd do. 1633862;1490801152;mircea_popescu;the above works. "Turn it into cpp." 1633863;1490801185;asciilifeform;i suspect that this will not happen, however. the language has 0 appeal ~other than~ for the safety. 1633864;1490801193;asciilifeform;it is a very ugly sibling of pascal. 1633865;1490801193;mircea_popescu;define "has appeal" 1633866;1490801236;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the animal, imho, doesn't have a skin that anyone might care to wear. if you remove the safety, it simply becomes a muchly verbose cpp. 1633867;1490801239;diana_coman;asciilifeform, the "appeal" from an idiot perspective is "it's popular" ; that means that at some point (late, but anyways) they WILL find it appealing 1633868;1490801254;mircea_popescu;the way we do things has no appeal except to serve the way we think. yet, ape-ing is constant. stealing bits of trilema is like chuka raiding rtg in siberia, yet chukas do raid. on it goes. 1633869;1490801261;asciilifeform;diana_coman: it's been sitting there since 1982, so far ~0 uptake among these folx. 1633870;1490801272;diana_coman;anything you do and works and becomes useful WILL encounter the mass of idiots jumping on it 1633871;1490801274;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the problem is one of labels not one of contents. you keep thinking in utility terms. 1633872;1490801276;phf;anything can have a pose. if it becomes so that "no real hacker", you're going to have plenty of "real hackers" at ada hackathons wearing "ada: make you hack better, bitch" tshirts 1633873;1490801299;mircea_popescu;there's no utility involved. suburban ustard wears item because of ~how it makes her feel~ to ~be seen~ as ~being one of the~ rather than any use. 1633874;1490801307;phf;^ 1633875;1490801324;mircea_popescu;what, you think black and decker power tools hanging from power cords around the neck could NEVER become a "music industry" standard ? 1633876;1490801343;mircea_popescu;holy shit, purported usage of weapons IN EXACT CONTRADICTION TO THEIR UTILITY is a holywood standard today! 1633877;1490801350;asciilifeform;notice that nobody walks around with hydraulic presses hanging from neck as fashion statement. 1633878;1490801354;asciilifeform;nor pneumatic drills. 1633879;1490801355;mircea_popescu;ever fucking tried firing one of those shits indoors ? just for lulz ? 1633880;1490801393;phf;asciilifeform: it's too big of an item, but ~they still totally do~ you just need to go to burning man. plenty of people are "i build art for the big burn, can handle big machines" 1633881;1490801397;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is sadly a form of special pleading. consider the tribe of americans in the nation of africa with the deformed heads / elongated necks / etc. 1633882;1490801405;mircea_popescu;they'll wear the pneumatic drills alright. 1633883;1490801415;mircea_popescu;phf aha! 1633884;1490801425;mircea_popescu;burning lamerman. 1633885;1490801432;asciilifeform;hey it isn't impossible. 1633886;1490801481;diana_coman;asciilifeform, ~everything has been sitting there since ages until someone comes and does something useful (for him) with it and THEN, (as in: too late) everybody starts doing something with it hence popular etc 1633887;1490801537;mircea_popescu;incidentally, the fact that people can not ~naturally~ drive on ice is sufficient case study to illustrate just how poor the human brain is at handling delayed backfeed. 1633888;1490801537;asciilifeform;the interesting q to ask re a system is not 'can idiots make a sham version' but 'can i tell that this was done' 1633889;1490801551;mircea_popescu;consider : running a destornillador comes out of the box ; skating - nope. 1633890;1490801565;diana_coman;asciilifeform, urgh, I'd rather ask: how I can PREVENT this being done 1633891;1490801573;asciilifeform;as it is, if grep -i -r unchecked * returns nil, and proggy builds in my gnat -- it is kosher ada 1633892;1490801598;asciilifeform;and there is very little that a monkey can do . 1633893;1490801599;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform technically speaking this is universally guaranteed. as per the ancient "idiot -- can not have idea ; mp saying x and idiot saying x are not the same", the mere fact of your using it enacts it as a ~substantially~ different item than what they use. 1633894;1490801613;mircea_popescu;this is trivially true and directly verified with eg irc, or gpg, or any other item we deigned to use. 1633895;1490801626;phf;(speaking of common lisp. asdf the system dependency tool turned from 30k in version 1 into a asdf/uiop 900k monster in version 2. in a systemd move took over most of the compatability packages and is now present ~in every single lisp distribution~. with the did accomplished, Fare posts the following http://fare.livejournal.com/188429.html ) 1633896;1490801636;asciilifeform;phf: i saw this, it was quite sad 1633897;1490801643;asciilifeform;it and 'quicklisp'. 1633898;1490801647;mircea_popescu;phf deed 1633899;1490801678;phf;yeah, i was about to *, but i keep doing this, where i type equivalent sounding words all over the place 1633900;1490801693;mircea_popescu;it'll fix itself if gf keeps correcting you. 1633901;1490801696;mircea_popescu;i know from experience. 1633902;1490801798;asciilifeform;to revisit upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633867 << naggum's observation 'cl does not support posers, no one will land a job by pretending to know it, you can expose him in 5 minutes' was only half-true -- turns out there is a process whereby vermin colonize a field, it is quite similar to the way in which lichens break apart a stone into soil 1633903;1490801798;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 15:27 diana_coman: asciilifeform, the "appeal" from an idiot perspective is "it's popular" ; that means that at some point (late, but anyways) they WILL find it appealing 1633904;1490801846;phf;asciilifeform: i actually tried replacing my asdf with asdf1 and the failure is that of thousand cuts. small, completely inconsequential additions to asdf file or some pointless uiop:foo-bar somewhere deep in code. some asdf files have hardcoded #-asdf3(error "asdf3 required") but then still work, etc. 1633905;1490801858;asciilifeform;phf: they did it to emacs, even 1633906;1490801867;asciilifeform;( see last year's 'flycheck' thread ) 1633907;1490801871;asciilifeform;same exact thing. 1633908;1490801878;phf;right, so you grok the method 1633909;1490801902;asciilifeform;'wanna install widget W ? ok, now install auto-liquishit-pump so it can download 10,001 turds and THEIR dependencies, and gender-fixes' 1633910;1490801933;asciilifeform;the important thing is that this process is exactly like the growth of fungus in aids patient 1633911;1490801950;asciilifeform;it is simply not possible if there are active graybeards, forming a perimeter defense 1633912;1490801971;asciilifeform;the fungus comes -- when they die. 1633913;1490801974;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform essentially, "no one will" holds for as long as there's an imaginary fixed point to hang it of -- actual management in this case. what happens once obama is in charge of hiring ? why, one CAN!! sudden;y get job by pretending to know, and ONLY by pretending. no nsa for oyu! 1633914;1490801994;asciilifeform;well yes -- the fungus. 1633915;1490801999;mircea_popescu;aha 1633916;1490802002;diana_coman;"you can expose him in 5 minutes" is not enough and moreover it is in favour of the idiots simply because ..mass 1633917;1490802030;diana_coman;so you expose 1 and then 10 and then 100 and so what; infinite points are on their side 1633918;1490802032;mircea_popescu;i don't need five minutes to expose a bad collegiate paper, what's the exposure do ? 1633919;1490802040;mircea_popescu;"but it was too much too read! it's hard!" 1633920;1490802056;diana_coman;I read there "kick him out" for "exposing" 1633921;1490802057;asciilifeform;it does very little good, for the drowning sailor, to 'expose' the water, aha 1633922;1490802062;diana_coman;but myeah 1633923;1490802063;mircea_popescu;aha! 1633924;1490802080;mircea_popescu;"come see the violence inherent in the glub glub glub!" 1633925;1490802084;diana_coman;trouble is that unless the kick out is intrinsic, simply a machine function 1633926;1490802091;asciilifeform;need mechanism, to separate self from the water. 1633927;1490802095;asciilifeform;aka boat. 1633928;1490802096;diana_coman;it can and will be overrun from what I can see 1633929;1490802149;mircea_popescu;phf that's kinda how/why we're stuck maintaining the world. gotta do the purges once and share. this "one man against horde of rats" is why people don't have sane tools today. 1633930;1490802159;mircea_popescu;it's more than what any sane mind can do, to fix ALL THE ONES HE NEEDS. 1633931;1490802178;mircea_popescu;it's not however more to fix one or two of them ; and if this work can be pooled then a complete system becomes quite feasible. 1633932;1490802238;asciilifeform;the result of merely kicking out the current crop of dreppers is more raft than boat, it oughta be remembered 1633933;1490802245;asciilifeform;the process that breeds them is inherent in c machine. 1633934;1490802256;mircea_popescu;technically speaking all land on earth is more raft than boat. 1633935;1490802264;mircea_popescu;floats on magma. 1633936;1490802374;mircea_popescu;it doesn't fall in not because hull, like boat, but because mutual reinforcement. which is imo the idea of "maintain world" for us too. clearly tmsr world will be bigger than usg/whatever world. if it is also sufficiently rigid, gravity or seaworthyness are no longer considerations : it can't fall in because of itself not leaving room to. 1633937;1490802638;mircea_popescu;PS: Here are ways that Racket is indeed vastly superior to CL, that make me believe it's the future of Lisp: First and foremost, Racket keeps evolving, and not just "above" the base language, but importantly *below*. This alone makes it vastly superior to CL (that has evolved tremendously "above" its base abstractions, but hasn't evolved "below", except for FFI purpose, in the last 20 years), and superior to most languages (t 1633938;1490802638;mircea_popescu;hat tend to not evolve much "above", and not at all "below" their base abstractions). 1633939;1490802660;mircea_popescu;omfg this is the dumbest thing i read all week! and i read beginner's essays penned by 20yo sluts!! 1633940;1490802661;asciilifeform;lol python3ism 1633941;1490802667;mircea_popescu;holy shit wtf, "evolving" abstractions ? 1633942;1490802676;asciilifeform;'you ain't evolving, when's the last time you redefined the number four' 1633943;1490802682;mircea_popescu;any evolution whatsoever means i don't want to touch that item. 1633944;1490802717;mircea_popescu;dude who the fuck cares what fare says/does, his head is more broken than anything you'd drag out of a colombian by the hour hotel. 1633945;1490802717;asciilifeform;the fungi rely on 'evolution of fundamentals', aka putrescence 1633946;1490802731;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the sad part is that d00d used to be ~sane 1633947;1490802737;mircea_popescu;i do not believe this. 1633948;1490802753;mircea_popescu;one doesn't simply become dumb. 1633949;1490802791;asciilifeform;does mircea_popescu also disbelieve , e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632836 ? 1633950;1490802791;a111;Logged on 2017-03-27 17:57 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-27#1632826 << by the way rich felker is the author of musl 1633951;1490802807;mircea_popescu;not yet. 1633952;1490802815;mircea_popescu;show me similar heartfelt idiocy, and i will, yes. 1633953;1490802837;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu must not have read the links in ^thread 1633954;1490802849;mircea_popescu;i thought i had 1633955;1490802854;mircea_popescu;but what's in a reread. lessee. 1633956;1490802856;asciilifeform;felker is 1,001 'leahs', if you will, if measured as horsepower is in horses 1633957;1490802871;asciilifeform;... and at the same time wrote, and maintains, musl. 1633958;1490802966;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform it's not clear to me we're on the page here. is https://eindhoven.cr.yp.to/false-statements-by-henry-de-valence.txt the point of interest ? 1633959;1490802973;asciilifeform;no 1633960;1490802988;mircea_popescu;i'm supposed to give a shit what tweets some dood tweeted ? 1633961;1490803008;asciilifeform;that's where he talks. 1633962;1490803008;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry, twitter is not a platform. anyone can say whatever the fuyck they want 140 chars at a time and i'll ignore it just like i ignore smsn 1633963;1490803019;mircea_popescu;then he is using it correctly, can say w/e the fuck. 1633964;1490803058;mircea_popescu;also why the fuck won't bernstein SIGN random text snippers. 1633965;1490803096;phf;i don't think fare was ever sane, but he at some point existed in similar space to asciilifeform, so people would mix the two together. i don't think anything he ever wrote was as lucid as "seven laws of sane computing", but a lot of highly abstract verbiage on imaginary systems designs 1633966;1490803130;mircea_popescu;there's a very strict difference between technical competence and trustworthyness. 1633967;1490803146;mircea_popescu;i know plenty of 15yos who could recite factoids about fast cars i would nevertheless not permit to drive my fast car. 1633968;1490803175;mircea_popescu;chiefly because it never fails to come to something like this. 1633969;1490803181;asciilifeform;phf: there was a considerable shadow world of folx with 'big dreams' re sane comp, but ~0 technical capability, e.g., r. kulisz 1633970;1490803212;mircea_popescu;is this your mental placing of gladdel fellow ? 1633971;1490803214;asciilifeform;and various others ( i think some of them are still linked from my www, they were 'in the birdlessness, my arse is a nightingale' ) 1633972;1490803223;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: it is. 1633973;1490803230;asciilifeform;he falls exactly into that bin, sadly. 1633974;1490803270;asciilifeform;ted nelson is a patron saint, of these folx 1633975;1490803286;mircea_popescu;i thought that guy with the failed lcd restaurant would have been. 1633976;1490803289;mircea_popescu;da fuck is his name. 1633977;1490803294;asciilifeform;( d00d who invented hyperlink, and spent half a century (!) and counting, trying to actually build something, even $mil's from john walker didn't help ) 1633978;1490803317;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: jwz? 1633979;1490803323;mircea_popescu;no no. ex amiga iirc investor. 1633980;1490803337;mircea_popescu;made a bunch of money out of consumer plastication of computing, went on to "be entrepreneur" 1633981;1490803344;mircea_popescu;failed universally over 20-30 different tries. 1633982;1490803380;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: atari, not amiga 1633983;1490803383;asciilifeform;bushnell ? 1633984;1490803438;mircea_popescu;it's somewhat funny, in the side pocket, how paul graham's idle verbiage about "the power of tech entrepreneurs to reinvest and create wealth" ENTIRELY ignores how without exceptrion his chosen field consists of mark cubans, ie dorks who made away with a large pile of corporate loot in a very madoffian manner and then just kept piddling it away. 1633985;1490803461;phf;i met fare at one of international lisp conference's and i thought he was kind of off, but the kind of work he did on asdf3 precisely corresponds to his personal and writing styles. sort of like a dirty kid that you have to constantly remind to like fucking go wash yourself dude, omg 1633986;1490803505;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yes! pizza time theatre! 1633987;1490803513;asciilifeform;phf: i definitely know the ~type~ aha 1633988;1490803726;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: or how 'create wealth' means 'drill into the printolade pipeline' 1633989;1490803745;mircea_popescu;in other news, toshiba seems headed for the ex-bin. after the "we made up 7bn profits over the past 6 years and are really losing 5bn a year atm" 2016 lulz, they've announced a 3.5bn looting by the usg this year. 1633990;1490803751;asciilifeform;(y'know, the way nigerian villagers 'create wealth', by augering petropipe and standing around with buckets) 1633991;1490803757;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the problem being that they can't reproduce it. 1633992;1490803815;mircea_popescu;(basically, long story short, usg financed a coupla units in georgia and ncarolina with japan's money, ain't giving it back. loss is whatever you want it to be, 3 to 10 bn) 1633993;1490803824;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: usg will loot everyone who is still worth anything who has any vulnerable limbs in usgdom -- just as it looted 'olympus' 1633994;1490803838;mircea_popescu;aha. just making a modest stab at chronicling the process 1633995;1490803843;mircea_popescu;not like you can find it anyuwhere else. 1633996;1490803925;asciilifeform;as uncle al schwartz wrote, re mexico's nationalization of syntex co (maker of 1st synthetic progesterone) -- 'it died, and as always they called it 'bad luck'' 1633997;1490803940;mircea_popescu;the scam is very fuinny in particular because usg-run toshiba subsidiary westinghouse negotiated "fixed price" contracts with local baronies ; they happen to understate actual cost by at least 60%. unsurprisingly, the "undue enrichment" concepts were temporarily suspended. had it gone the other way, and toshiba managed to make off with 250% what it was owed, it'd be all "Corruption scandal" and whatnot, of course. 1633998;1490803943;asciilifeform;expect moar 'back lucks' as usg burns the furniture. 1633999;1490803990;mircea_popescu;if usg asks for an apple and you bid a dollar and then they decide to define "apple" as a sack of potatoes, you owe two dollars in merchandise. 1634000;1490804018;mircea_popescu;if usg asks for an apple, you bid a dollar, and nobody underbids you, they'll decide they must "inspect" to "investigate" etcetera, and won't you agree to a three dollar fine ? 1634001;1490804219;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: iirc jp is not the only head on the chopping block; 1634002;1490804226;asciilifeform;they are nailing, e.g., samsung 1634003;1490804234;asciilifeform;('corruption' !!) 1634004;1490804256;asciilifeform;'hey we heard you had a bag of money, need help... carrying it' 1634005;1490804287;asciilifeform;'folx like you, straining, carrying bag, could have Problems!' 1634006;1490804302;mircea_popescu;aha 1634007;1490804324;mircea_popescu;whatever, i never liked toshiba. 1634008;1490804354;asciilifeform;i liked toshiba. 1634009;1490804403;phf;pretty sure my first vhs was toshiba 1634010;1490804406;asciilifeform;it (even now!) makes a z80. and bunch of truly own weirdo cpu. 1634011;1490804410;asciilifeform;phf: mine also 1634012;1490804427;mircea_popescu;kinda why i didn't like it. made all these bs lower market tvs. 1634013;1490804433;mircea_popescu;wtf is wrong with you know, siemens! 1634014;1490804439;asciilifeform;with death of toshiba, microcontrollers will take a serious step to the same shithole in which pc cpu sits 1634015;1490804445;asciilifeform;where there are 1-2 makers 1634016;1490804449;asciilifeform;and ~1 arch 1634017;1490804463;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform the japs are trying to insulate it from the loss, it may survive in parts. 1634018;1490804474;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: siemens turned out to be nsaware, recall. 1634019;1490804482;mircea_popescu;not in the 80s! 1634020;1490804487;asciilifeform;which was sad but unsurprising, given what post-'45 germany is. 1634021;1490804493;mircea_popescu;we're discussing 30 years ago sorta thing. 1634022;1490804502;asciilifeform;there did not exist nsaware in '80s. 1634023;1490804512;mircea_popescu;well, not mass market anyway 1634024;1490804514;asciilifeform;(other than, perhaps, cryptoAG's mechanical ciphrators) 1634025;1490804599;phf;i vaguely suspect japan is actively shedding u.s. assets, so all these "investigations" might be u.s. attempt to extract whatever they can still extract 1634026;1490804612;mircea_popescu;this is just about the case. 1634027;1490804642;mircea_popescu;japan is actually finding itself in a very great conjuncture, reminiscent of early 1900s. both russia and china need it. the usg... who cares. 1634028;1490804677;mircea_popescu;which is why the "exotic" nationalist party, abe & co, keep pushing for army. 1634029;1490804692;Framedragger;re. FUCKGOATS customs hold-up in UK: according to their story the hold-up with uk customs was due to them having to apply import duty (had to pay a bit) from u.s., *even though* i've had plenty of shit sent in from u.s. of a. before, so who knows (they wouldn't tell me more) :D 1634030;1490804701;asciilifeform;they have sound vans, advertising 'hey folx, remember when we were a COUNTRY!?' 1634031;1490804714;mircea_popescu;Framedragger how much did you end up paying per unit, and under what title was it extracted ? 1634032;1490804716;Framedragger;it *could* be that it's because asciilifeform nicely noted down a dollar value on the parcel but then if he didn't he'd technically be breaking some law or another i'm sure 1634033;1490804739;mircea_popescu;if you find it within yoruself to post forms you were issued that'd be grand. 1634034;1490804742;Framedragger;minimum import duty amount ~£8, *but* there is a tax for the tax (not kiddin) - administrative fee - which is also £8, so £16 in total for import (lololol) 1634035;1490804754;asciilifeform;iirc i declared it as '50 usd' 1634036;1490804756;mircea_popescu;makes for a great post at any rate. 1634037;1490804761;mircea_popescu;z 1634038;1490804767;Framedragger;asciilifeform: yes correct 1634039;1490804769;Framedragger;the only form they gave me was basically a fucking postcard saying "you gotta pay us if you want it" 1634040;1490804769;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform why bother ? not like it's insured, what's the upside. 1634041;1490804779;Framedragger;i can post it later but need to finish a thing tonight 1634042;1490804784;mircea_popescu;no rush 1634043;1490804828;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i've had parcels marked 'gifts' disappear mysteriously 1634044;1490804853;mircea_popescu;at #16 it's cheaper to reorder lol 1634045;1490804853;asciilifeform;( china --> usa usually gets away with it , usa --> wherever -- not so much) 1634046;1490804901;phf;only thing they shipping usa -> wherever is drugs. so it's a pretty safe bet to investigate 1634047;1490804902;Framedragger;(i also called them to inquire but teh law is that they can't tell me more than on a postcard (which gives amount to pay, basically, i mean for srs). i may have gleaned something more by showing up at relevant delivery office (not the closest one) but i didn't bother (paid online and got it posted to my door)) 1634048;1490804916;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: actually tricky bit, say btc goes to 5k, then buyer may well be rather pissed, rather than 'oh i'll reorder' 1634049;1490804935;mircea_popescu;yeah i guess. sucks to live in a shitty jurisdiction huh. 1634050;1490804942;mircea_popescu;no real way to insulate victim. 1634051;1490804982;asciilifeform;phf: i am fairly certain the post clerk thought i was sending $contraband 1634052;1490804983;mircea_popescu;ftr, mp put > 200kgs worth of mostly electronica through customes at $mystery-location. took all of 5 minutes and $0 in fees. 1634053;1490804998;mircea_popescu;though i did give a fiddy to the porter who handled all of it, dude earned it. also made his day quite evidently. 1634054;1490805008;asciilifeform;'d00d walks in, knapsack of fat white envelopes to $monkeystans' 1634055;1490805013;mircea_popescu;lol. for srs. 1634056;1490805051;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i did get that trunk of pogos through .ar customs. though it made for interesting conversation 1634057;1490805067;mircea_popescu;lol how'd that go 1634058;1490805117;mircea_popescu;btw -- here's a new mp rule : if the airport you land at does not have porters waiting at the ready, you have landed in the third world. 1634059;1490805135;mircea_popescu;i don't give a shit about any excuses. this is the first, and the most important criterion of any place. no airport coolies, not civilised. 1634060;1490805141;asciilifeform;approx, d00d : 'what is this' asciilifeform : 'technical samples' d00d : 'promise you'll take them back where you came from' asciilifeform : 'mmok' 1634061;1490805164;asciilifeform;$0 tax 1634062;1490805170;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i didn't perjure you, they didn't get sold or left in argentina, so. all good. 1634063;1490805181;asciilifeform;lulwin. 1634064;1490805206;asciilifeform;btw they'll run 'nqb' pretty well, i suspect. 1634065;1490805222;asciilifeform;( an' just about anything else, other than ye olde hog ) 1634066;1490805230;mircea_popescu;yeah they're not bad at all. 1634067;1490805242;asciilifeform;i still have several here, am quite fond of them. 1634068;1490805329;*;phf imagines carefully packed pogos in one of those old travel trunks, numbered "trunk #49: pogos" next to "trunk #50: hats" 1634069;1490805357;asciilifeform;phf: not far from reality, lel 1634070;1490805362;mircea_popescu;but aside from a whole crate with like 50 pogos in their original packaging, i carried over two granite mortar&pestle arrangements. because fu, i gotta have my pie spices hand ground. 1634071;1490805390;asciilifeform;( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537269 ) 1634072;1490805390;a111;Logged on 2016-09-08 15:47 asciilifeform: a c-grinder will also, should its lid come off, happily continue to fly (yes) around the kitchen, grinding whatever ends up in its path, drywall, chairs, people, van goghs, stradivaris, crates of ammunition, dogs, dildos. 1634073;1490805391;mircea_popescu;approaching muslim levels from prev thread over here. 1634074;1490805416;asciilifeform;hey mircea_popescu asciilifeform's family brought dishes, meat grinder, etc. to usa. 1634075;1490805422;asciilifeform;'what, leave'em at home?!' 1634076;1490805425;mircea_popescu;lel. 1634077;1490805446;mircea_popescu;amusingly, it is way the fuck cheaper to overweight flights than to fedex. by a factor of like, 2. 1634078;1490805456;mircea_popescu;i have nfi wtf scam this is, but it makes entirely no sense whatsoever. 1634079;1490805456;asciilifeform;the funny bit, is that all of the junk went by ~boat~, in special container 1634080;1490805465;phf;oh yeah i have those two, i bought one in india last time, and it's as close as you can get to "rock with hole, another rock for mashing" 1634081;1490805472;asciilifeform;and by the time it came : 1) 2/3 was missing 2) the remainder -- was utterly redundant 1634082;1490805481;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform if i were actually doing > 2 tons or so i'd have bothered. but really didn't have enough to juysrtify actual shipping 1634083;1490805493;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: could have brought your diesel!11 1634084;1490805503;mircea_popescu;phf nah these are quite elegant actually. and ferous granite also, it's a slpendor. 1634085;1490805522;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you have no idea. it's worth 150% there of what it'd be worth anywhere else. 1634086;1490805527;asciilifeform;lol granite... ever go over it with geiger ? (or the food..) 1634087;1490805547;asciilifeform;dunno if i want alpha emitters in my phood. 1634088;1490805547;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform yep. it's lower than water! 1634089;1490805560;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: trick q, geiger won't pick up alpha 1634090;1490805571;asciilifeform;(unless you have exotic 'pancake' probe) 1634091;1490805580;mircea_popescu;yeah well. if it dun have one it dun't have any! 1634092;1490805661;asciilifeform;speaking of which, asciilifeform finally discovered how to make a decay-based rng that doesn't wear out or need high voltage -- use PIN diode. the q was always what to use for an emitter, that won't be stolen by post office of half the globe. granite, it occurs to me, is probably a good bet. 1634093;1490805681;mircea_popescu;this isn't simil-granite for putting on yoru wall ; actual rock dug out from ground and polished. imo better than jade. 1634094;1490805688;asciilifeform;well yes, that very same granite 1634095;1490805694;asciilifeform;faux granite dun have any U in it. 1634096;1490805716;mircea_popescu;it does because same reason as the cinder thing 1634097;1490805742;asciilifeform;i thought faux-granite were a bakelite-like substance. 1634098;1490805757;mircea_popescu;i thought it was just a specially treated waste disposal method 1634099;1490805765;mircea_popescu;possibly we're talking of two things. 1634100;1490805768;asciilifeform;possible. 1634101;1490805822;mircea_popescu;http://fare.livejournal.com/tag/ad%20hominem << lol at the "i write my text on windows" part ; but that aside the dude has a point. 1634102;1490805826;mircea_popescu;wtf is his problem anyway ? 1634103;1490805843;mircea_popescu;this "kitten is apparently half-capable of thought" scenarios always disturb me. 1634104;1490805863;phf;asciilifeform: why'd you say this. now i won't be able to make spices until i check. not like it would've killed me otherwise (tm)! 1634105;1490805884;mircea_popescu;phf alpha does nothing to you anyway. 1634106;1490805910;asciilifeform;tell that to litvinenko lol. 1634107;1490805925;mircea_popescu;is he going to EAT the pestle ?! 1634108;1490805946;asciilifeform;i dun think the pestle is immune to friction 1634109;1490805973;mircea_popescu;but by the microgram! 1634110;1490805987;asciilifeform;radon is also eaten by microgram, neh. 1634111;1490806010;asciilifeform;hey if it's any comfort, plastic spoons are probably more lethal. 1634112;1490806019;mircea_popescu;neh. radon is problematic for being immersed in. 1634113;1490806040;mircea_popescu;and plastic spoons are pretty bad. imagine -- i got silver silverware here! 1634114;1490806380;mircea_popescu;anyway, to not misguide noobs : litvenko, usg agent that got murdered by the fsb in london, was poisoned with polonium. the alpha emitter effect of the metal, while present, was not necessarily. polonium is chemically toxic, much more so than cyanide, ld50 being in the microgram range (ie 1000ths of a grain of salt). 1634115;1490806475;asciilifeform;why not then , e.g., osmium. 1634116;1490806477;asciilifeform;cheaper. 1634117;1490806485;asciilifeform;and just as 'golden toilet' demonstrative. 1634118;1490806487;mircea_popescu;i don't explain the weird. 1634119;1490806509;mircea_popescu;why not the proven-to-work ricin thing, neh. who knows these things. 1634120;1490806534;mircea_popescu;anyway. polonium doth naturally exist and accumulate 1634121;1490806560;mircea_popescu;possibly one reason the eskimos are retarded, for instance. 1634122;1490806562;asciilifeform;naturally?! 1634123;1490806566;mircea_popescu;yea. 1634124;1490806597;mircea_popescu;polonium occurs from uranium decay ; and chemically masquerades sulphur which makes it a joker in many biological pathways. 1634125;1490806652;mircea_popescu;(it's for instance one of the very few legitimate causes of cancer-from-smoking, notwithstanding the blanket nonsense spewing from ourdemocracytards.) 1634126;1490806686;mircea_popescu;seafood also contributes a healthy dose. especially these days. 1634127;1490807294;mircea_popescu;in other "twentysomething metrosexual guys masquerading as neurotic, sexually neglected middle aged gals" news, check this shit out : http://jacobappelbaum.net/ 1634128;1490807297;mircea_popescu;a collective!!1 1634129;1490807408;mircea_popescu;"I was in an abusive relationship with Jake for six months in 2009. We parted on ostensibly amicable terms and have had little contact since then. When the accusations of professional misconduct and predatory sexual behavior were made public, I believed them, not just because I value and respect the men and women who made these accusations, but also because they sounded just like him. I saw him use those same strategies years 1634130;1490807408;mircea_popescu; ago." 1634131;1490807531;mircea_popescu;"During these discussions there was a lot of gaslighting. One discussion in particular, he claimed that I had somehow deeply injured him (I don't remember what I did) and was inconsolable. I kept asking him what I could do, and finally he insisted that for him to feel better I needed to clean his floors naked. And I did it. I cried the whole time, in surreal horror. He cheered up and took photos of me, crying and naked, scrub 1634132;1490807532;mircea_popescu;bing his floor. I want to be perfectly clear that there was nothing fun or kinky about this. I don't enjoy humiliation, and it was not a consensual part of our sex life." 1634133;1490807564;mircea_popescu;lots and lots of this, mostly mildly entertaining brat (term of art) upset she sucks at it and GETTING EVEN!!11 1634134;1490807622;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C892F08463D98CB6B5BACC2AE59A9736B0FB94ADF1ECD40E6F5CA6BBAA176640 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1411...7717 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.27.236.125 (ssh-rsa key from 188.27.236.125 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (188-27-236-125.rdsnet.ro. RO IS) 1634135;1490807622;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C892F08463D98CB6B5BACC2AE59A9736B0FB94ADF1ECD40E6F5CA6BBAA176640 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1523...9893 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.27.236.125 (ssh-rsa key from 188.27.236.125 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (188-27-236-125.rdsnet.ro. RO IS) 1634136;1490807701;mircea_popescu;but anyway, back to the upstream : https://archive.is/9zD8D#selection-9.3336-9.4865 the whole thing is rather damaging of bernstein's own standing and credibility. he engages in this sort of behaviours, he isn't much of a man, and certainly the sordid tale of his misbehaviour disabused me of any intention of rating him on the basis of his work. 1634137;1490808282;mircea_popescu;idiot actually wrote a 12k word about this inept bullshit. where's his fucking 12k word discussion of any of his ACTUAL FUCKING WORK 1634138;1490809538;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: bernstein ?! has multi-MB www of unique and valuable work 1634139;1490809544;asciilifeform;incl. the motherfucking smooth integers algo. 1634140;1490809562;asciilifeform;https://cr.yp.to/djb.html << subj. 1634141;1490809598;mircea_popescu;find all pages > 12kb of detailed narrative wordage. 1634142;1490809614;mircea_popescu;guy is as terse as if he'd be writing with ass clicker when doing actual work 1634143;1490809625;mircea_popescu;suddenly he's a novelist when these grease spots are concerned 1634144;1490809629;asciilifeform;or how about bernstein vs. unitedstates. 1634145;1490809632;mircea_popescu;i am very offended by the behavious. 1634146;1490809651;asciilifeform;https://cr.yp.to/export.html 1634147;1490809675;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform he "will spend significant time" to find... "Research" tasks adequate to that fuckdolls "level" yet he can't be bothered to figure out how deedbot works ? 1634148;1490809678;mircea_popescu;defend this, i wish to hear it. 1634149;1490809682;mircea_popescu;i'm fucking pissed off. 1634150;1490809709;asciilifeform;i have nothing with which to explain it. or, e.g., taleb. 1634151;1490809719;mircea_popescu;anyone got an email of the dork ? 1634152;1490809758;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: i thought he was being a bit satirical and snarky in that particular passage you quote (those two paras), from when i read it first. not that his general pose of presenting an excuse (if diligently detailed) of this kind of a good sign, of course. just that the tone is not *that* bad. (but, okay, perhaps bad enough when the piece is considered in whole.) 1634153;1490809770;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: https://cr.yp.to/contact.html 1634154;1490809789;asciilifeform;fwiw i wrote to him after i deployed phuctor-cum-bernsteintron. 0 answer. 1634155;1490809798;asciilifeform;then again apparently nobody ever answers when asciilifeform writes 1634156;1490809801;mircea_popescu;not for a fucking second. he is enabling the misbehaviour of 30yo children. i gotta do more work bitchlapping these idiot cunts into the ground because he buys them food and doesn't makle them pay for the shiot they break. 1634157;1490809807;asciilifeform;not the lispm folx, not bernstein, whoever. 1634158;1490809807;mircea_popescu;he's as antisocial as it fucking gets! 1634159;1490809808;Framedragger;s/of a good sign/is a good sign/ 1634160;1490809835;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i don't give a shit about answers. i perceive i must send him a one liner "you should be ashamed of yourself", because HE SHOULD FUCKING BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF. 1634161;1490809872;asciilifeform;put on trilema, then he's doomed to see... 1634162;1490809975;mircea_popescu;im doing a different article, but anyway. 1634163;1490810022;asciilifeform;re ' "Research" tasks adequate to that fuckdolls "level" ', the sad thing is that herding pigs is his ~day job~ 1634164;1490810034;mircea_popescu;this is supposed to be mitigation ? 1634165;1490810034;asciilifeform;y'know, sorta how winblowz internals is asciilifeform's 1634166;1490810037;mircea_popescu;it's not mitigation. 1634167;1490810061;asciilifeform;it is possible to have a worse one. 1634168;1490810068;mircea_popescu;i'm sorry ? 1634169;1490810071;asciilifeform;worse job. 1634170;1490810074;mircea_popescu;how ? 1634171;1490810082;asciilifeform;could be, e.g., nsa stooge 1634172;1490810088;asciilifeform;or a poettering 1634173;1490810123;asciilifeform;or for that matter could be one of those 999/1000 academics who churn out shannonized crapola. 1634174;1490810160;asciilifeform;instead, d00d is (and only one currently living, afaik) actual cryptographer in... cryptography 1634175;1490810178;asciilifeform;though in this capacity he may well be spent, and his useful life -- behind 1634176;1490810179;mircea_popescu;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/oUNgB/?raw=true in other lulz. 1634177;1490810205;Framedragger;but this is along the lines of "could be coal miner, chucking coal 18h/day". well yeah... 1634178;1490810265;asciilifeform;lol, pretty barbaric spam filter 1634179;1490810314;mircea_popescu;they're ~all the same. 1634180;1490810340;asciilifeform;well there's 2 types, one is this, the other is when you let nsa filter the spam (google's) 1634181;1490810359;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i am not of the persuasion that poettering, ie, out and out wrecker, is in any sane sense worse than jwz, ie, "i'm just going to silently and passively enable the valence idiots". 1634182;1490810375;mircea_popescu;i will certainly hang the "nice people" in preference of the poetterings. just like trump does. 1634183;1490810394;mircea_popescu;correct strategy when dealing with the empire of idiots -- hang the idiots, not their handlers. 1634184;1490810414;asciilifeform;philosophically, the d00d who lights the match, and the one who stands and watches, are 'same' ; in practice -- different, in that if you shoot the latter, very soon your kingdom is empty 1634185;1490810443;mircea_popescu;had mp not happened to make a comment and alf to insist and mp to read this bullshit, mp'd have never known what miserable immoral acts bernstein engages in regularly. and nobody'd have told him. 1634186;1490810450;mircea_popescu;meanwhile poettering, i wasn't going to miss. 1634187;1490810451;asciilifeform;this point actually figured quite prominently in the north vs south kr wars 1634188;1490810463;asciilifeform;north -- shot the japanese collaborationists 1634189;1490810471;asciilifeform;south -- used'em, incl. the dictators 1634190;1490810474;mircea_popescu;i would much prefer an empty kingdom. i utterly have no use of these softie surogate idiot-usian parenting types. 1634191;1490810551;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633709 << you wrote heapless ecdsa routines for nqb? 1634192;1490810551;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 12:08 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633699 << it is a notbad library to study (no external deps!) -- but it DOES use heap. 1634193;1490810563;mircea_popescu;so he said yest. 1634194;1490810590;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: the 'nq' in 'nqb' 1634195;1490810592;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu is citing http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633614 ? 1634196;1490810592;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 00:47 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: presently it eats blocks and tx in a heapless and demonstrably nonoverflowable way, into a general-purpose fixed space (no tx can >1MB) representation that is operable in O(1) 1634197;1490810600;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: means 'not quite'. there is no script processing. 1634198;1490810619;ben_vulpes;but verifies signatures? 1634199;1490810620;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes that illuminated by previous comments / my understanding of his work. 1634200;1490810623;asciilifeform;it isn't a btctron. only demonstration of db algo 1634201;1490810628;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: no crypto 1634202;1490810632;ben_vulpes;this is what i am asking 1634203;1490810636;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: can't verify sigs. or generate'em. 1634204;1490810637;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform ah so wait, no sig verify ? 1634205;1490810641;mircea_popescu;aah 1634206;1490810643;asciilifeform;not yet! 1634207;1490810657;mircea_popescu;i had the idea it actually does verify sigs just not scripts. 1634208;1490810657;asciilifeform;it's an exploration of 'how to store tx?' 1634209;1490810660;asciilifeform;nooo 1634210;1490810664;asciilifeform;if it could verify sigs! 1634211;1490810666;asciilifeform;it'd be a btctron. 1634212;1490810672;mircea_popescu;then why specifically mention scripts lol. 1634213;1490810678;mircea_popescu;well, arguably. notrly. but anyway. 1634214;1490810681;asciilifeform;because gotta ~store~ them. 1634215;1490810683;ben_vulpes;be ye not afraid of appearing retarded in the republic, for questions you might not ask for fear of appearing stupid turn out to illuminate all sorts of things. 1634216;1490810687;mircea_popescu;ah i c. 1634217;1490810700;ben_vulpes;just, don't actually be stupid. 1634218;1490810700;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes word. muh misunderstandings! 1634219;1490810701;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: actually implementing script verification is a serious work, quite likely to take entire year. 1634220;1490810714;mircea_popescu;depends on which kindergarten one went to amirite alfier 1634221;1490810715;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: why bother? 1634222;1490810738;ben_vulpes;trb just looks through the script for pubkey or pubkey hash opcodes 1634223;1490810738;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: 'fleet in being' 1634224;1490810764;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: and nope. http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/script.cpp?v=makefiles 1634225;1490810771;asciilifeform;^ does not 'just look for sig opcode' 1634226;1490810773;asciilifeform;sadly. 1634227;1490810780;asciilifeform;implements good chunk of shitoshi's liquishit. 1634228;1490810792;ben_vulpes;ah, i must misremember. 1634229;1490810796;ben_vulpes;perhaps i am thinking of isMine? 1634230;1490810841;asciilifeform;to revisit upstack : yes, it is possible to implement ecdsa in constant space. after all, the sigs are of constant size, and the payload is maxed at 10,000Bt. 1634231;1490810852;asciilifeform;but no, i have not done this. 1634232;1490810858;asciilifeform;perhaps ben_vulpes -- will do it. 1634233;1490810910;ben_vulpes;doubtful 1634234;1490810948;asciilifeform;currently i suspect that a complete btctron can fit in 10k-line of ada. 1634235;1490810955;asciilifeform;but it remains, to demonstrate experimentally. 1634236;1490810980;asciilifeform;it is less useful per se, than as a demonstration of principle. 1634237;1490811000;asciilifeform;e.g. that it is possible to operate on a thing of bitcoin's complexity, in constant space AND time 1634238;1490811026;asciilifeform;(or at the very least, in ~predictably~ nonconstant time) 1634239;1490811039;asciilifeform;and with well-defined behaviour, in ALL cases. 1634240;1490811053;asciilifeform;(i.e. demonstrably nonoverflowable, nonhangable.) 1634241;1490811186;asciilifeform;some example snips : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/mJAHZ/?raw=true << handling of shitoshi's var-ints 1634242;1490811212;ben_vulpes;oh neat 1634243;1490811373;asciilifeform;http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/i8cY6/?raw=true << handling btc transactions to/from traditional/sane formats 1634244;1490811376;asciilifeform;etc. 1634245;1490811424;asciilifeform;( several routines used but not included, this is not meant to be runnable genesis, but to show flavour ) 1634246;1490811436;mircea_popescu;the principle is very useful, yes. 1634247;1490811494;asciilifeform;tested, btw, by taking a multitude of blocks (from eatblock), parsing'em in, then back out, and diff. 1634248;1490811499;asciilifeform;(identical.) 1634249;1490811518;asciilifeform;then afterwards by fuzzing, e.g. crafting shitoshivarints that want to overrun arrays 1634250;1490811540;asciilifeform;this does 0 , because bounds checking, and we in fact learn where. 1634251;1490811644;asciilifeform;aaaand eventually the thing can get a correctness proof. 1634252;1490811647;asciilifeform;but this comes -- later. 1634253;1490811900;asciilifeform;!!up adlai 1634254;1490811900;deedbot;adlai voiced for 30 minutes. 1634255;1490811942;adlai;http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=makefiles#0030 << Transactions'MAX_BLOCK_LENGTH oughtta be 1MiB = 10^6 1634256;1490811956;asciilifeform;eagle eye, adlai , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h?v=makefiles#0030 1634257;1490811962;asciilifeform;ahha he got it. 1634258;1490811981;asciilifeform;indeed it is a decimal (hdd maker's) 'megabyte'. 1634259;1490812063;asciilifeform;see also mircea_popescu's 'magic numbers' article. 1634260;1490812291;*;asciilifeform idly wonders how many folx who implemented 'btc protocol' also used 'the wrong megabyte' 1634261;1490812327;asciilifeform;the other constants, i looked up, but this one, naively memorized as 'megabyte'... 1634262;1490812842;asciilifeform;but overall folx oughta remember mircea_popescu's observation from c3, that any attempt to reimplement ye olde grandfather's pistol from scratch, will almost certainly have at least one lethal 'accepts something the old -- would not' defect. 1634263;1490812880;asciilifeform;which is not necessarily as fixable as 'fix the constant' 1634264;1490812910;mircea_popescu;i thought we're pretty much aware it's 1000000, but anytway 1634265;1490812928;mircea_popescu;vaguely recall this being discussed round the original crisis. 1634266;1490812970;asciilifeform;decimal mb, wtf, srsly. 1634267;1490812978;asciilifeform;what does somebody have to smoke, to think of it. 1634268;1490812987;mircea_popescu;way ofg the windows. 1634269;1490813353;ben_vulpes;and to continue the thread http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633564 , https://68.media.tumblr.com/23040c080667cf8e80427caf495cb435/tumblr_oge2frqsL81ve4x7to1_400.gif 1634270;1490813353;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 00:18 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-28#1633429 << we did https://68.media.tumblr.com/fa9a2501411802f10f1ddcaf88a17b7f/tumblr_o218aqlfjI1sk3xdpo1_500.gif I take it ? 1634271;1490813393;mircea_popescu;lel 1634272;1490814100;*;shinohai takes note of ben_vulpes new interest, vows to find irl doggy girls to suit .... 1634273;1490814235;ben_vulpes;find me an office slut, shinohai 1634274;1490814246;trinque;that second one just seems like she's on coke 1634275;1490814258;phf;i thought you need an office for an office slut 1634276;1490814291;ben_vulpes;hey just because i fired everyone doesn't mean i'm not wandering around naked in the cavernous echo chamber of my own delusion every day 1634277;1490814341;shinohai;Wanted: One office slut. Must be flexible, fit under desks, and be able to emulate canine behaviours. No collar required. 1634278;1490814392;phf;i sort of assume that people who quit job to be with family look and act like derek ireland at the end of one of his yoga videos 1634279;1490814404;mircea_popescu;lel phf crits 1634280;1490814414;mircea_popescu;'s teh problem, he can just turn part of the corvette into an office! 1634281;1490814488;mircea_popescu;phf http://www.burrenyoga.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Yoga-retreat-in-Ireland-R.jpg ? 1634282;1490814503;ben_vulpes;corvette's too cramped to even get road head in halfway conveniently 1634283;1490814540;trinque;corvette activites are meant to be done on the hood 1634284;1490814547;ben_vulpes;duh hoy 1634285;1490814555;phf;mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua1yKneI2Mw&t=12m10s 1634286;1490814571;ben_vulpes;shinohai: honestly the only canine behaviors i really want are "sit" and "shut up" 1634287;1490814592;trinque;!~bash 1 1634288;1490814593;jhvh1;Last 1 lines bashed and pending publication 1634289;1490814621;mircea_popescu;i much prefer fetch. 1634290;1490814666;ben_vulpes;no chewing the mail though 1634291;1490814670;ben_vulpes;chewing the /male/ though... 1634292;1490814680;*;mircea_popescu has girls out fetching things lamost continuously. 1634293;1490814712;mircea_popescu;and in fairness i dun think i have to bid anyoine shut up once a week. 1634294;1490814731;ben_vulpes;you've been at it, what, a decade and a half at this point? 1634295;1490814754;mircea_popescu;just about. 1634296;1490814760;mircea_popescu;the merit is mostly the girls'. 1634297;1490814768;ben_vulpes;magical self-training harem 1634298;1490814775;phf;i think "sit" and "shut up" is aspirational. when you're at that point, you kind of want something practical out 1634299;1490814787;ben_vulpes;phf: mhm ya think? 1634300;1490814807;ben_vulpes;but also those are just the canine behaviors, neh? 1634301;1490814865;mircea_popescu;phf word. 1634302;1490814898;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes notrly. i mean i dunno, to my eyes the whole "dog as pet" thing is kinda inept. get a hunting dog, go hunting with it, suddenly it's a lot more respectable an animal. 1634303;1490814920;phf;well, it's a telling selection of canine behaviors is my point. my dog was a lot more useful than "sit" and "shut up" 1634304;1490814927;mircea_popescu;dog-pets work fine for 5 to maybe 11 or 12yo boys, but this mostly because the kid will pull its ears etc. 1634305;1490814942;trinque;guy was possibly making a joke 1634306;1490814953;ben_vulpes;i don't find any of you funny either 1634307;1490814955;mircea_popescu;no quarter for joeks! this is srs bzns!!1 1634308;1490814957;trinque;lol 1634309;1490814983;trinque;but yes, kind of like these folks that never put anything in the back of their truck 1634310;1490814988;trinque;"maybe you're the mini cooper type..." 1634311;1490815004;mircea_popescu;"this truck shoulda been a limo amirite" 1634312;1490815023;ben_vulpes;canine also high value spawn innoculator 1634313;1490815038;trinque;read: lol there is poop in my mouth 1634314;1490815038;mircea_popescu;o.O 1634315;1490815042;ben_vulpes;stretch pickup: http://www.customautosbytim.com/csa_008.jpg 1634316;1490815073;trinque;oh god, the regular extended cab is bad enough. 1634317;1490815165;ben_vulpes;trinque: there is poop everywhere 1634318;1490815204;mircea_popescu;he has a point though, there's good reason kids should be raised with puppies not kittenbs. 1634319;1490815255;ben_vulpes;moreover one large reason americans are so sick is a dangerous obsession with the sterile living environment. 1634320;1490815276;mircea_popescu;this is up to a point unavoidable -- the cheaper synthetics they use, especially fibers, stink. 1634321;1490815276;ben_vulpes;take 'em outside, roll them in dirt, make sure they eat some. 1634322;1490815297;ben_vulpes;what does the stink have to do with the sterility obsession? 1634323;1490815307;ben_vulpes;or is this in re the fragrance obsession 1634324;1490815317;trinque;also http://i.imgur.com/LaG8aNd.gif vs https://thesciencedog.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/baby-sitting-on-dog.jpg 1634325;1490815324;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/stop-being-so-fucking-poor/ << Trilema - Stop being so fucking poor! 1634326;1490815329;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes well you gotta keep the bacteria away. 1634327;1490815353;ben_vulpes;trinque: oh boy i gotta show you "Master Vulpes and His Hound" some day 1634328;1490815370;mircea_popescu;let's consider a simple illustration : normal milk going sour becomes a different kind of aliment - sour milk. usian milk going sour becomes this utterly bitter horror. 1634329;1490815392;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i don't follow the connection between the 'stinky' synthetic fabrics and the bacteria 1634330;1490815400;asciilifeform;not long ago i walked to post office along different, for no good reason, path, to mail a FG, and saw the largest and most impressive dog i ever saw 1634331;1490815404;mircea_popescu;what do you think makes things stink ben_vulpes ?! 1634332;1490815412;asciilifeform;he was in his own yard, even, 3 metre iron fence on all sides 1634333;1490815416;asciilifeform;hound of the baskervilles. 1634334;1490815423;mircea_popescu;didja pat it ? :D 1634335;1490815433;asciilifeform;made a quite respectable sound, would not sound out of place in a zoo. 1634336;1490815445;ben_vulpes;mircea_popescu: i dunno, you implied the stink came from the synthetics alone! 1634337;1490815448;asciilifeform;i did not put hand in, no. 1634338;1490815476;mircea_popescu;all things "that stink" are your brain identifying the metabolic byproduct of bacterial life ; and knowing from experience their presence doesn't mix well with your continued existence. 1634339;1490815491;mircea_popescu;plastics make a splendid substrate for bacteria, much better than anything else. 1634340;1490815495;ben_vulpes;aah 1634341;1490815528;mircea_popescu;moreover it selects for unfriendly kinds of bacteria (hence the milk example -- tho0ugh there the uht process does the selection) 1634342;1490815539;mircea_popescu;so you're up to a certain point stuck overwashing once you buy the plastic angle. 1634343;1490815642;ben_vulpes;heh and this ocmpounds, because now your kids don't have an immune system because your surfaces are overcolonized (and with the most ahistorical of populations at that), so not only do you have to clean the stink away but also keep ~everything out of the kid's mouths. 1634344;1490815653;mircea_popescu;much like opting to have a natural compost pile in a shady spot in the garden instead of fertilizer and "modern our democracy" will result in a much better ecosystem, with birds and earthworms and so on ; just like a good cheese and yogurt diet rather than taking peptobismol will result in a happier digestion ; just so havinga house full of linens rather than nylons will result in a much happier overal environment to live in, 1634345;1490815654;mircea_popescu; with fewer cunt rashes etc. 1634346;1490815665;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes yes. 1634347;1490815676;mircea_popescu;2nd and 3rd order effects are even more important than the direct 1634348;1490815700;mircea_popescu;(3rd order : the best fungicide is... bacteria. the best antiseptic is... bacteria. that's why your skin stays healthy -- you are covered by your friends.) 1634349;1490815701;ben_vulpes;funny how all manifestations of modernity look alike. entertain even a smidge of wokeness and you'll wake up in trans camp. 1634350;1490815707;mircea_popescu;myeah. 1634351;1490815726;asciilifeform;i have said this before, but everyday life in usa makes the good doktor mengele's stitch-his-head-to-his-arse look like harmless hobby 1634352;1490815747;mircea_popescu;by now there's just too many of these small and "in itself defensible" idiocies piled up. 1634353;1490815752;asciilifeform;half a billion bonsaikittens. 1634354;1490815788;asciilifeform;( incl. per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632388 ) 1634355;1490815788;a111;Logged on 2017-03-24 20:47 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-24#1632355 << orlol discussed this, and it was 100% true, 'homo americanus' has some very serious damage that is very expensive to build prosthesis for -- he has no family , no friends, no one will lend him money other than at extortionate rates, has no one alive whom he could live with in small hut, 5 to 10 sq. metres, without killing one another 1634356;1490815818;ben_vulpes;yo ho yo ho, a caravan life for me 1634357;1490815938;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: possibly misbounded quoteblock in latest trilema 1634358;1490815947;asciilifeform;( http://trilema.com/2017/stop-being-so-fucking-poor/#selection-187.0-195.21 ) 1634359;1490816156;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform missing ~ to properly indicate authorsheep 1634360;1490822659;ben_vulpes;in other non-solutions: https://journal.standardnotes.org/vpns-are-absolutely-a-solution-to-a-policy-problem-3b88af699bcd 1634361;1490823336;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: i never understood 'vpn service' -- why not hire a cheapo commercial linux box and route whateverses through it. 1634362;1490823341;asciilifeform;y'know -- with hands 1634363;1490823355;ben_vulpes;why hands when mathematica lets you do it with arse! 1634364;1490823358;asciilifeform;as in http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000252.html 1634365;1490823372;CompanionCube;asciilifeform: presumably because they are too lazy for that 1634366;1490823377;CompanionCube;or want a turnkey hands-off solution 1634367;1490823391;asciilifeform;it ain't like you have to write sshd from scratch. 1634368;1490823419;CompanionCube;nope, but from their perspective it may as well be. Not that I'd agree though. 1634369;1490823447;phf;y'all never tried configuring openvpn 1634370;1490823458;asciilifeform;i did, actually, it was a misery 1634371;1490823561;phf;i suspect back in the day it allowed vendors to optimize for usage patterns. "unlimited traffic vpn" vs running it on a tightly metered box 1634372;1490823583;trinque;tincd also misery 1634373;1490823658;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: frightening heathen pit, btw, that site. 1634374;1490823661;*;CompanionCube hasn't used tincd as a VPN-to-the-internet, only as a virtual LAN equivalent. 1634375;1490823677;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: indubitably. 1634376;1490823696;CompanionCube;it looks almost exactly like Medium. Are you sure it isn't? 1634377;1490823744;ben_vulpes;"software developers must save our privacy" and other such nonsense 1634378;1490823761;ben_vulpes;CompanionCube: five bucks says it is 1634379;1490823777;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634135 >> lul, btw >> http://188.27.236.125 1634380;1490823777;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 17:13 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C892F08463D98CB6B5BACC2AE59A9736B0FB94ADF1ECD40E6F5CA6BBAA176640 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1523...9893 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '188.27.236.125 (ssh-rsa key from 188.27.236.125 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (188-27-236-125.rdsnet.ro. RO IS) 1634381;1490823793;asciilifeform;http://188.27.236.125/haisa.ro >> 'e to thee, Osiris, Lord of eternity, King of the Gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, thou being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy. ...' 1634382;1490823817;CompanionCube;did you take that as me saying it's not Medium 1634383;1490823824;asciilifeform;http://188.27.236.125/baroul-suceava.ro >> 'Avocatura este tot atat de veche ca si magistratura, tot atat de 1634384;1490823824;asciilifeform;nobila ca si virtutea, tot atat de necesara ca si justitia' 1634385;1490823827;CompanionCube;because I was saying that it either was or is a deliberate clone 1634386;1490823848;asciilifeform;CompanionCube: certainly looks quite like it. 1634387;1490823860;CompanionCube;found in the DOM: '' 1634388;1490823874;asciilifeform;lol! 1634389;1490823939;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: complete with a 'basic income' article. 1634390;1490823957;ben_vulpes;hey basic income is happening 1634391;1490823961;asciilifeform;and 'end to end encryption' crapolade, and other mandatory pravda 1634392;1490823972;ben_vulpes;giant towers with water, calories and internet piped directly to the basics 1634393;1490824001;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: iirc it already happens, but you gotta paint yerself black 1st 1634394;1490824028;ben_vulpes;nah, not the same at all 1634395;1490824175;asciilifeform;how not 1634396;1490824330;ben_vulpes;there are conditions beyond "being black" 1634397;1490824415;asciilifeform;the 'let's give EVERYBODY $income' thing goes beyond mere retardation; make the folx who play lotteries, and even pyramids, look brilliant. at least ~somebody~ wins, in a pyramid 1634398;1490824595;asciilifeform;( the other funny detail, it certainly ain't ~everyone~ who'd get payola. certainly not dirty kulaks. ) 1634399;1490824611;asciilifeform;pretty lulzy stealth-dekulakization scheme. 1634400;1490824626;asciilifeform;'we won't take even 1$ from you -- we'll simply give 1$ to everyone not-you.' 1634401;1490824676;phf;the obamacare strategy 1634402;1490824691;ben_vulpes;obamacare took plenty from me 1634403;1490824695;asciilifeform;^ 1634404;1490824728;ben_vulpes;dilution of the dollar to pay for encampment of takers i'm hedged against 1634405;1490824749;ben_vulpes;taxation and forced-purchase-of-bunk-paper, not so much. 1634406;1490824790;asciilifeform;phun phakt : tax rate in north kr is... 1634407;1490824791;asciilifeform;0. 1634408;1490824802;ben_vulpes;and? 1634409;1490824854;asciilifeform;they still charge tax, it simply gets rolled into electric bill, etc. 1634410;1490824870;phf;ben_vulpes: i'm sure there's some ideological angle where two are not the same, but from where i sit... 1634411;1490824920;ben_vulpes;phf: not ideological, financial! you can hedge against devaluation. what is the hedge against moar taxes? 1634412;1490825010;BingoBoingo;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634099 << There are many kinds of faux granite from inkjet printed plastic to rocks and resin simulation 1634413;1490825010;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 16:42 mircea_popescu: possibly we're talking of two things. 1634414;1490825316;phf;ben_vulpes: if your hendging against devaluation happens in bezzle terms, but your more tax is the "guberment done it", than this distinction makes sense. i don't think that in reality more tax just happens, it's a process by which devaluation graph gets readjusted 1634415;1490825349;asciilifeform;waitasec didn't we have this exact thread last week 1634416;1490825480;ben_vulpes;liink? 1634417;1490825522;asciilifeform;can't seem to find -- maybe i dreamed it. 1634418;1490825727;asciilifeform;but there was that old mircea_popescu thread. where, approx, 'a dollar usg collects from mr.pleb in tax isn't so that usg can spend a dollar, it can spend $trillion, or ten, without collecting anything; it collects the dollar because otherwise mr.pleb will use it to bid up turkeys' 1634419;1490826051;asciilifeform;bidding up, e.g., cardboard houses, or better still, ornate paper -- things of which no conceivable shortage exists, or could ever begin to exist -- is , notice, a-ok by lizard lights. 1634420;1490826053;phf;it's the diff between bezzle and tide. tax increase happens in sync with devaluation because otherwise you discover that there's not enough aspirin. 1634421;1490826067;asciilifeform;^ aha, what i just said 1634422;1490826547;phf;i don't think aspirin though is a good example, because "obviously" there aren't any aspirin shortages. likewise there are obviously no housing shortages, doctor shortages, etc. etc. 1634423;1490826605;asciilifeform;re shortages, lulzy trend in washington region of building block after block after block of cardboard condo towers ~which then stand dark, for years on end~ continues 1634424;1490826626;trinque;how chinese 1634425;1490826637;asciilifeform;process is not in any way plugged into 'is anybody buying' loop 1634426;1490826655;asciilifeform;and they still 'cost' 400-700k usd , even when 1000s stand dark. 1634427;1490826719;asciilifeform;every time i walk by these, i wonder if they even have plumbing fixtures, mains sockets, etc 1634428;1490826724;asciilifeform;or simply cardboard box. 1634429;1490826737;asciilifeform;(why waste money installing these 'useless' parts, when they aren't needed?) 1634430;1490826775;asciilifeform;perhaps on the rare occasions someone buys -- they get one of the 1-2 units in the bldg that has'em 1634431;1490826782;asciilifeform;'on demand' 1634432;1490826858;asciilifeform;point being, a mighty fine and historically effective way to relieve plebs of excess dough is -- artificial shortages 1634433;1490826891;asciilifeform;( in '90s ru, rumours of massive warehouses where cheese rotted, milk soured, meat fed maggots -- proliferated. and i'm quite convinced they are not baseless. ) 1634434;1490826904;asciilifeform;in '30s usa -- they burned crops. 1634435;1490827163;asciilifeform;( modern lizards, i picture, understood -- correctly -- that if these bovines didn't take to arms and burn down the capital when crops were burned in the '30s -- they certainly won't revolt today. ) 1634436;1490827391;phf;i still think that the reason is that there are no lizards in a recognizable form (i.e. the 1984, hugo boss clad), it's all a chomsky style dependency graph, and the complexity so high, micro level so varied, that nobody can make sense of it 1634437;1490827430;asciilifeform;eh soros is still around; buffett; et al 1634438;1490827482;asciilifeform;nobody cancelled the petro-kings of saud, either 1634439;1490827520;asciilifeform;( incidentally, gotta wonder, why can't asciilifeform buy a vinylon suit ? ) 1634440;1490827823;phf;same reason you can't buy запаÑÐ¾Ð¶ÐµÑ 1634441;1490827838;phf;oh ffs, i gotta fix my client 1634442;1490827839;asciilifeform;бнопня вхрюк 1634443;1490827869;phf;zaporozhets 1634444;1490827880;asciilifeform;mno. 1634445;1490827932;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633636 << thread. 1634446;1490827932;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 03:39 asciilifeform: phunphakt : the only synthetic cloth fiber that isn't shit ( as, e.g., nylon : flammable, melts on skin, crumbling under sunlight, etc ) is made in... north kr! >> https://fas.org/nuke/guide/dprk/facility/industry38.htm 1634447;1490827951;asciilifeform;superior in every respect a man might give half a shit about, to what's available in 'civilized' world. 1634448;1490827982;asciilifeform;( yes it can't be painted. but also shows 0 dirt, laughs at uv, acids, bases, solvents, fire. ) 1634449;1490828028;phf;well, "a man might give half a shit about". you're talking about GOST style global optimization "plant makes same material for parachutes and fasihonable summer dresses" 1634450;1490828235;phf;it's same reason why every american has an inflatable plastic mattress for guests, but not a raskladushka 1634451;1490828249;asciilifeform;right now we have, de facto, opposite, 'man's coat is made from same faux silk gurl's panties are made from', 'so what if it melts into your skin in a fire', 'so what if sunlight dissolves it, so much the better for AmerikaGreatAgain' 1634452;1490828318;asciilifeform;phf: and plastic car, etc 1634453;1490828319;phf;correct, that's the 80s "choice" that was made, you either get zvezdniy gorodok or jeens 1634454;1490828326;asciilifeform;they would have plastic cocks, if they could. 1634455;1490828339;asciilifeform;'generation that chose pepsi' (tm)(r) 1634456;1490828368;ben_vulpes;are y'all going to just skip right over the anti-combustible chemicals with which nearly every new thing is impregnated these days? 1634457;1490828384;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: another thing you dun need in vinylon... 1634458;1490828412;ben_vulpes;tell me something i don't know 1634459;1490828461;phf;imo the problem is not the chosen product, but the mechanism by which the choice was made (and is continously remade in many micro instances) 1634460;1490828473;asciilifeform;'choice' 1634461;1490828488;ben_vulpes;aaah i had a cot for many years! 1634462;1490828488;asciilifeform;oblignaggum, http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-22#429394 1634463;1490828488;a111;Logged on 2013-12-22 16:56 asciilifeform: 'what people “want” is a function of what they learn is available. e.g., do Americans want three-ring binders, and Europeans four-ring binders? or do they want binders and take whatever number of holes they come with? or do they want something that can help them organize their papers and take whatever is available? or do they really want a less cluttered office and ease of storage and retrieval of the infor 1634464;1490828506;ben_vulpes;army surplus thing, was amazing until i handled it roughly packing up from a burn and bent one of the struts. 1634465;1490828543;ben_vulpes;i imagine there's some "oh no, you couldn't possibly imagine the superiority of the su raskladushka" inbound 1634466;1490828566;asciilifeform;i slept on one for 1st decade of life 1634467;1490828573;asciilifeform;it was steel, quite indestructible 1634468;1490828594;asciilifeform;for some reason parents called it a 'chopper' 1634469;1490828604;asciilifeform;(вертолет) 1634470;1490828649;phf;ben_vulpes: nah it was a piece of shit. i got one from walmart and it's pretty good. advantage though was that you could repair it for years, and since there was only ~one~ type, you could also replace parts for years, etc. 1634471;1490828678;asciilifeform;there were aluminum ones, pieces'o'shit, aha, i have one even here 1634472;1490828689;ben_vulpes;phf: some days i dream of making a car like that 1634473;1490828690;asciilifeform;and yeah if you have a hammer -- repairs 1634474;1490828709;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: speaking of which, tell me, how come i can't buy a car where if it dents, i can just take off a panel and put in new one ? 1634475;1490828711;asciilifeform;with bolts. 1634476;1490828723;asciilifeform;and then re-flatten old one - with hammer, on anvil. 1634477;1490828737;asciilifeform;or, say, where the bumper is OF RUBBER 1634478;1490828744;asciilifeform;like a motherfucking bumper ought to be. 1634479;1490828767;phf;ben_vulpes: that was my zaporozhets comment. ultimate piece of shit car, with the main perk: can be repaired in a shortages economy 1634480;1490828817;phf;everything down to the engine 1634481;1490828840;phf;"working class car for working class people" etc. 1634482;1490828865;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: fashion, unfortunately. 1634483;1490828901;ben_vulpes;modern car loses 90% of value after 5 years and 100kmi, an industrial piece like a freightliner loses at most 70% after a decade and A MILLION MILES 1634484;1490828932;*;ben_vulpes has a shirt awaiting deconstruction into patterns sitting at home 1634485;1490828936;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: do you remember mircea_popescu's article about his friend who went to usa and tried to build a house of stone ? 1634486;1490828941;asciilifeform;and nearly jailed 1634487;1490828944;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: no, link? 1634488;1490829004;asciilifeform;again 0 result from search 1634489;1490829013;asciilifeform;lessee if mircea_popescu recalls, when he wakesup 1634490;1490829081;asciilifeform;there's also, e.g., 1634491;1490829083;asciilifeform;!#s ethacridine 1634492;1490829084;a111;4 results for "ethacridine", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ethacridine 1634493;1490829089;asciilifeform;countless examples. 1634494;1490829115;asciilifeform;su 'everyday' good, that's either unknown -- or banned -- in 'free' world. 1634495;1490829195;asciilifeform;( speaking even strictly of technologies, not even touching on subjs such as children free to walk around on their own, to make explosives, etc ) 1634496;1490829389;phf;asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWSxev7eJvs 1634497;1490829395;*;phf cackles 1634498;1490829403;asciilifeform;aaah 1634499;1490829474;asciilifeform;iirc the boy drank to death in '90s. 1634500;1490829524;ben_vulpes;what even is this 1634501;1490829536;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: nostalgatron from home planet. 1634502;1490829542;ben_vulpes;looks great 1634503;1490829582;asciilifeform;http://lyricstranslate.com/en/prekrasnoe-dalyoko-prekrasnoe-daleko-glorious-future.html << a not wholly barfalicious transl. 1634504;1490829611;asciilifeform;5 of'em, even. 1634505;1490829696;asciilifeform;i can already picture mircea_popescu's barfometer redzoning, tho. 1634506;1490829748;CompanionCube;I think the video is from this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_from_the_Future 1634507;1490829792;asciilifeform;well yes 1634508;1490829794;asciilifeform;from where else. 1634509;1490829813;asciilifeform;and lol, i had nfi it had an english pedipage. 1634510;1490829822;ben_vulpes;silly me, i thought the movie was called "nostalgatron from home planet" 1634511;1490829831;asciilifeform;lol! 1634512;1490829943;ben_vulpes;lol taaki got locked up for fighting in syria? 1634513;1490829949;asciilifeform;waiawt 1634514;1490829952;asciilifeform;where 1634515;1490829979;ben_vulpes;https://assets.wired.com/photos/w_1058/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/amirtaaki.jpg 1634516;1490830006;asciilifeform;lol! 1634517;1490830031;ben_vulpes;"When Taaki reached the camp on the Syrian side of the border, he says, he tried to explain to the elderly officer in charge that he’d come to Rojava to offer his tech skills in one of Rojava’s cities, not to fight. But as Taaki tells it, the man waved away his protests and conscripted him into a unit with the other foreigners." 1634518;1490830049;ben_vulpes;oh god i know conde nasty is persona non grata but this is gold 1634519;1490830122;asciilifeform;https://archive.is/a86cG << subj, apparently 1634520;1490830141;asciilifeform;and for all i know -- whole thing is disinfo 1634521;1490830143;ben_vulpes;did he always have a paunch? 1634522;1490830192;ben_vulpes;definitely some amount of "no leaving the states, pleb" in action, sure 1634523;1490830226;asciilifeform;no leaving, everybody understands; but why did idiot COME BACK 1634524;1490830251;asciilifeform;srsly, once you made it out of monkeystan, found work (soldiering is honest work), whythefuck COME BACK omfg 1634525;1490830265;ben_vulpes;"found the west calling to him" 1634526;1490830290;phf;aka where the white women at 1634527;1490830316;asciilifeform;ain't the kurd army supposed to have chix in it 1634528;1490830322;asciilifeform;wasn't that the whole point, of joining. 1634529;1490830333;ben_vulpes;girl who said she'd get him reassigned bought the farm 1634530;1490830345;ben_vulpes;and in other wonders of "ai": http://boingboing.net/2017/03/29/countermeasures-are-a-thing.html 1634531;1490830380;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-26#1386298 . 1634532;1490830380;a111;Logged on 2016-01-26 17:20 ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc) 1634533;1490830385;asciilifeform;old noose. 1634534;1490830688;asciilifeform;'And Taaki began to believe that returning to the UK and completing Dark Wallet’s development would allow him to help Rojava better use bitcoin as a fundraising tool, one that would circumvent the US and EU sanctions that prevent any funds from being transferred into Syria.' << wat. 1634535;1490830707;CompanionCube;why would you want to to the *UK* for that 1634536;1490830721;CompanionCube;it has pretty shitty laws for that kind of thing. See: RIPA. 1634537;1490830733;asciilifeform;whole yard makes ~0 sense. 1634538;1490830736;asciilifeform;*yarn 1634539;1490830781;CompanionCube;fuck, even the US'd be a better place. There there isn't a law that literally states you must disclose encryption keys on-demand. 1634540;1490830836;ben_vulpes;you still get locked up for not complying, CompanionCube. 1634541;1490830853;ben_vulpes;"contempt of court" most recently. 1634542;1490830864;asciilifeform;!#s coke machine 1634543;1490830865;a111;62 results for "coke machine", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=coke%20machine 1634544;1490830887;asciilifeform;nobody's even counting the de-facto lifers who won't give password to inquisitor. 1634545;1490830892;asciilifeform;any moar. 1634546;1490830905;asciilifeform;longest is, what, 7 yrs now? 1634547;1490830911;asciilifeform;8? 1634548;1490830925;asciilifeform;less time than many folx in, e.g., ru, do for murder. 1634549;1490831423;*;trinque would read an asciilifeform sci-fi short on coke machine. 1634550;1490831445;trinque;would fit nicely into mircea_popescu's future dystopia 1634551;1490831501;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-25#1285753 << thread, for n00bz 1634552;1490831501;a111;Logged on 2015-09-25 20:10 ascii_field: this is precisely the condition needed for the coke machine 1634553;1490831695;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-24#1174350 << possibly the 1st mention. 1634554;1490831695;a111;Logged on 2015-06-24 17:28 ascii_field: it will be replaced - question of ~when~, not ~if~ - by something like an oubliette with a vending machine 1634555;1490831807;phf;coke machine story should be set in the same universe/time as the pgp key story 1634556;1490831857;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu was right, imho, tho, it wouldn't make good story, 0 element of 'future' in it 1634557;1490831861;asciilifeform;quite boringly familiar 1634558;1490831869;asciilifeform;'exactly like 2017 but with slightly more automation' 1634559;1490832142;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634548 << ~moar~ time, lol 1634560;1490832142;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:42 asciilifeform: less time than many folx in, e.g., ru, do for murder. 1634561;1490832470;phf;https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/03/28/new-toronto-institute-aims-to-be-worldwide-supplier-of-artificial-intelligence-capability.html 1634562;1490832485;phf;i think i should go back to just pasting titles tho 1634563;1490832537;asciilifeform;'Italy could soon offer menstrual leave Parliament is considering a bill that, if approved, would require employers to grant women three days of paid leave every month.' << from same rag 1634564;1490832552;asciilifeform;'TTC delays launch of anti-harassment app The "Safe TTC" app will allow passengers to report harassment, assault, vandalism, and other offences.' << from same rag.. 1634565;1490832555;asciilifeform;pretty great. 1634566;1490835652;trinque;I'd thought that perhaps coke machines are what patrol looking for folks outside their VR wombs. 1634567;1490836930;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634383 << i lollered. ftr, baroul suceava = the bar association of suceava county. 1634568;1490836930;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 21:43 asciilifeform: http://188.27.236.125/baroul-suceava.ro >> 'Avocatura este tot atat de veche ca si magistratura, tot atat de 1634569;1490837011;ben_vulpes;menstrual leave! 1634570;1490837013;ben_vulpes;amazing 1634571;1490837109;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634411 << this is a lulzy notion. if you could hedge against such a wonder, the lido'd still be a thing. 1634572;1490837109;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 22:02 ben_vulpes: phf: not ideological, financial! you can hedge against devaluation. what is the hedge against moar taxes? 1634573;1490837190;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634418 << called sterilization of currency. especially relevant when you know, foreign devils show up with botload of gold. 1634574;1490837190;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 22:15 asciilifeform: but there was that old mircea_popescu thread. where, approx, 'a dollar usg collects from mr.pleb in tax isn't so that usg can spend a dollar, it can spend $trillion, or ten, without collecting anything; it collects the dollar because otherwise mr.pleb will use it to bid up turkeys' 1634575;1490837310;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634443 << pretty sure you can buy that 1634576;1490837310;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 22:51 phf: zaporozhets 1634577;1490837581;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634476 << you'd much enjoy cairo. 1634578;1490837581;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:05 asciilifeform: and then re-flatten old one - with hammer, on anvil. 1634579;1490837629;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634483 << boats actually GAIN value in about 1/3 of their years. 1634580;1490837629;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:08 ben_vulpes: modern car loses 90% of value after 5 years and 100kmi, an industrial piece like a freightliner loses at most 70% after a decade and A MILLION MILES 1634581;1490837702;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-04#546042 re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634489 1634582;1490837702;a111;Logged on 2014-03-04 22:05 mircea_popescu: which means, concrete foundation, brick walls 1634583;1490837702;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:10 asciilifeform: lessee if mircea_popescu recalls, when he wakesup 1634584;1490837783;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634495 << to be beaten into a pulp for being the obnoxious sort of fag who'd bitch at djb about someone touching him / listen to depeche mode / etcetera... 1634585;1490837783;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:13 asciilifeform: ( speaking even strictly of technologies, not even touching on subjs such as children free to walk around on their own, to make explosives, etc ) 1634586;1490837887;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634515 << well this is certainly a damn sight better than "coding" 1634587;1490837887;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:26 ben_vulpes: https://assets.wired.com/photos/w_1058/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/amirtaaki.jpg 1634588;1490838095;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634530 << all i can say is doh, as well as http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-12#1368457 1634589;1490838095;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:32 ben_vulpes: and in other wonders of "ai": http://boingboing.net/2017/03/29/countermeasures-are-a-thing.html 1634590;1490838095;a111;Logged on 2016-01-12 19:24 mircea_popescu: as someone once said, "their tricks work for them only a short distance of their run, and for us the whole run." 1634591;1490838158;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634535 << because he lived off the overgenerous uk dole his entire life. 1634592;1490838158;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:38 CompanionCube: why would you want to to the *UK* for that 1634593;1490838179;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2017/stop-being-so-fucking-poor/ very deeply fucking related. 1634594;1490838258;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634562 << in that case at least. 1634595;1490838258;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 00:08 phf: i think i should go back to just pasting titles tho 1634596;1490839481;BingoBoingo; phf: and plastic car, etc << Plastic car's not so bad. When plastic fails replace with metal and slowly get metal car 1634597;1490839588;BingoBoingo; ben_vulpes: speaking of which, tell me, how come i can't buy a car where if it dents, i can just take off a panel and put in new one ? << I have exactly this fucking thing. Also most incidents that would dent metal don't dent. 1634598;1490839588;mircea_popescu;https://www.hdevalence.ca/blog/2016-05-28-capitalism-and-arithmetic-and-casting-out-nines << item that convinces the wise curve25519 is utterly unsafe. 1634599;1490839625;BingoBoingo; and then re-flatten old one - with hammer, on anvil. << Oh, there's the catch 1634600;1490839956;*;BingoBoingo probably ought to update section in his copy of L-Series Haynes manual on "special connectors" with up to date "special connectors. 1634601;1490843382;mod6;this mso1104Z-s is pretty sweet 1634602;1490844264;shinohai;You got it in already mog? o.O 1634603;1490844271;shinohai;* mod6 1634604;1490844625;mod6;yuuup 1634605;1490844640;mod6;ima have to dig in a bit tomorrow. 1634606;1490844864;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634474 << what you really want is http://cdn2.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/0/63/4_8_0_0_0.jpg?itok=9Yt1kgFK http://goautomedia.cdn.on.net/gallery/citroen/c4%20cactus/HIRES-Citroen%20Cactus%20003.jpg a citroen! 1634607;1490844864;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: speaking of which, tell me, how come i can't buy a car where if it dents, i can just take off a panel and put in new one ? 1634608;1490844898;pete_dushenski;not for sale in north america but you probably already guessed that it's a shithole anyways 1634609;1490845046;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634483 << ubercheap lease rates are actually predicated on absurdly high residuals and so are resulting in cars that are losing only 40% after 3 years. this is a bigger problem in the states than, say, uk. but still an increasingly noticeable phenomenon for manufacturers and dealers to prop up new sales figures in the face of a secular decline in interest. 1634610;1490845046;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 23:08 ben_vulpes: modern car loses 90% of value after 5 years and 100kmi, an industrial piece like a freightliner loses at most 70% after a decade and A MILLION MILES 1634611;1490845358;pete_dushenski;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633653 << heh. exactly this. i thought these kids and their 'bitcoin embassy' died in 2013. apparently still around doing who knows the fuck what. having 'meetups' with increasingly aged and decrepit demographics no doubt. 1634612;1490845358;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 06:33 mircea_popescu: "we represent the whole world*!!!" * as understood by whatever 3rd echelon bureaucrat in the us dept of our democracy that "handles" "canada". 1634613;1490845563;pete_dushenski;in other sanities, having a business dispute ? don't look to the fiat bureacracy for help http://archive.is/AHtKB ("In Brooklyn’s Kosher Pizza War, Modern Tastes Battle Ancient Law") 1634614;1490845960;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634606 << nonsense. i see 1) curved panels 2) not held on with external bolts 1634615;1490845960;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 03:34 pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634474 << what you really want is http://cdn2.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/0/63/4_8_0_0_0.jpg?itok=9Yt1kgFK http://goautomedia.cdn.on.net/gallery/citroen/c4%20cactus/HIRES-Citroen%20Cactus%20003.jpg a citroen! 1634616;1490845999;pete_dushenski;but no dents, you see 1634617;1490846020;asciilifeform;i see places where you could dent it. 1634618;1490846028;asciilifeform;and it'll stay dented. 1634619;1490846032;asciilifeform;so snore. 1634620;1490846051;asciilifeform;the hypothetical subj would look something like a t34 1634621;1490846054;pete_dushenski;this is like seeing girl with freckly "see pete, not perfect!" 1634622;1490846058;asciilifeform;not a frufru shitmobile. 1634623;1490846063;pete_dushenski;freckle* 1634624;1490846087;pete_dushenski;so buy t34. metal. whatyouwant. 1634625;1490846107;asciilifeform;well, more btr than t 1634626;1490846113;asciilifeform;but you get the idea. 1634627;1490846114;pete_dushenski;oh but you want to afford it ? well, buy citroen 1634628;1490846121;asciilifeform;flat iron sheets. 1634629;1490846158;pete_dushenski;not for plebs like us, sorry. golden toilet budget only. 1634630;1490846175;asciilifeform;pete_dushenski: whole point would be to piss on the fashionista faggotry and get a cheap, practical, repairable (yes, they lied to you, CAN have all 3) machine. 1634631;1490846231;pete_dushenski;cheap ironmobile ? lolz 1634632;1490846248;pete_dushenski;this is planet3, yes ? 1634633;1490846317;pete_dushenski;there aren't enough alfs on this rock for cheap ironmobiles with 'all 3' 1634634;1490846355;pete_dushenski;some scale (and assembly) required 1634635;1490846374;asciilifeform;su cars -- were of iron. 1634636;1490846384;asciilifeform;just like old american ones. 1634637;1490846477;pete_dushenski;but both failed criteria 1 and 2. weren't cheap and kept breaking down (unless you think 'practical' is 'big boot', which imo is insufficient) 1634638;1490846555;pete_dushenski;not cheap because leveraged resources of two world war winning titans of industry and their very concerted efforts to placate masses. today, bits on facesnap suffice. 1634639;1490846581;pete_dushenski;cheap is always relative, not absolute. 1634640;1490846599;asciilifeform;what, in pete_dushenski's view, means 'cheap' ? falls from sky ? 1634641;1490846659;pete_dushenski;um. less expensive than alternative. 1634642;1490846666;pete_dushenski;and in yours ? 1634643;1490846717;asciilifeform;'inexpensive after you kill the shysters who supplied the defective false alternatives' 1634644;1490846748;pete_dushenski;aha. so yours is really 'cheap in future ideal world' and mine is cheap rfn. 1634645;1490846752;pete_dushenski;makes sense. 1634646;1490846783;pete_dushenski;so i'll drive citroen and you can drive dreams! 1634647;1490846799;asciilifeform;generally i try to avoid drive. 1634648;1490846804;asciilifeform;it is a chore. 1634649;1490846861;pete_dushenski;no doubt about that. frozen prairies are same in this regard as dc swamplandia. 1634650;1490846891;asciilifeform;not a chore because plastic panels, no. but -- chore. 1634651;1490850453;pete_dushenski;you probably already know this but it's awfully hard to take your 'snore this' and 'kindergarten that' seriously when you move the goalposts so. but it's still fun trying to pin the lubed eel, don't get me wrong. 1634652;1490850701;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634620 << pretty sure outside bolts not street legal. 1634653;1490850701;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 03:54 asciilifeform: the hypothetical subj would look something like a t34 1634654;1490850757;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634635 << yes, but volga also went about 10 miles on the gas toyota does the full 100. 1634655;1490850757;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 03:59 asciilifeform: su cars -- were of iron. 1634656;1490850854;mircea_popescu;anyway, one wonders what alf'd do for boob implants. "wtf silicone doc, GIMME LAVA!!!1" 1634657;1490850862;mircea_popescu;"How will it stay hot ?" "Whipping!" 1634658;1490851280;pete_dushenski;for outside bolts, no jurisdiction afaik seems to take issue with bolt-on fender flares, eg. http://b.cdnbrm.com/images/products/rell/fender_trim/1974_bushwacker_fender_flares_pocket_style_2010_f150.jpg 1634659;1490863671;BingoBoingo;pete_dushenski: But those bolts are RECESSED! 1634660;1490867025;Framedragger;kek https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CAASwCXdQUiuUnhycdRvrUmHuzk5PsaGxr54U4t34teQjcjb%3DAQ%40mail.gmail.com 1634661;1490879800;trinque;ty mircea_popescu 1634662;1490879820;trinque;thing appeared to be ping/ponging with somebody, but in limbo 1634663;1490879863;mircea_popescu;aha here we go! 1634664;1490881508;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634660 << "My motivation is primarily I don't want to learn all the over-complicated details of C, but at the same time I would like to be productive in a safe system language, a category in which Rust seems to be alone." 1634665;1490881508;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 09:43 Framedragger: kek https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CAASwCXdQUiuUnhycdRvrUmHuzk5PsaGxr54U4t34teQjcjb%3DAQ%40mail.gmail.com 1634666;1490881511;mircea_popescu;case fucking closed. 1634667;1490881576;mircea_popescu;" My name is Joel Jacobson. I’ve been using PostgreSQL almost every day since 2002. Recently, I started getting involved in the community around this fantastic RDBMS." 1634668;1490881622;mircea_popescu;they're mentally retarded, there's no two ways about it. people who are in their 20s/30s today and were parented by the idiots and imbeciles in their 40s and 50s and 60s are simply and irretrievably retarded. 1634669;1490881869;mircea_popescu;for that matter, when the fuck did a COMPUTER LANGUAGE, ie, a language you can program the machine in, become a "systems language" ? why, to make room for javascript being a language ? it ain't a fucking language, it's a scripting language which means jack-all. 1634670;1490881904;mircea_popescu;fucking decay of idiocy, they want to turn the nodes-notnodes binome into fullnodes-nodes ? if you don't verify blocks you're not a node, if you can't program the machine it's not a language etc. holy shit. 1634671;1490882143;Framedragger;for posterity, rust does have things like raw pointers (and no gc), etc.; but the kommunity around it is at this point perhaps ~insufferable, much like the javascript hipster legions. which is not a point to be ignored 1634672;1490882511;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-pisspots/ << Trilema - The Pisspots 1634673;1490882644;mircea_popescu;i'm not saying "rust is bad mmkay". i couldn't care less, there's been tons of "new languages" fulfilling the need of people to "revolutionize". they all work, exactly in the way custom pliers work. 1634674;1490882676;mircea_popescu;i'm not buying custom pliers, and the pretense of the custom plier fans that their custom pliers ain't custom but standard is uninteresting. 1634675;1490882710;mircea_popescu;this includes fucking pascal, let alone erlang, go, rust, java, you name it. 1634676;1490882782;asciilifeform;meanwhile, usg decides that it only needs ~one~ GE... https://archive.is/VHvz8 << RIP westinghouse. 1634677;1490882797;mircea_popescu;anyway, fucking tard. "my name is mircea_popescu ; i've been using chairs pretty much every day since the late 70s, and recently i started getting involved in this fantastic chair community" 1634678;1490882844;asciilifeform;also mircea_popescu the 'rust' link simply gotta be a parody 1634679;1490882857;mircea_popescu;i do not believe so. 1634680;1490882865;asciilifeform;it simply ain't believable 1634681;1490882868;trinque;oh? 1634682;1490882880;mircea_popescu;it seems entirely plain to me. 1634683;1490883011;asciilifeform;read like a trololol, is all. 1634684;1490883030;asciilifeform;'if all git commits could be automatically converted to Rust' for instance. 1634685;1490883030;trinque;just some guy who read a bunch of hackernews and thinks he has opinions 1634686;1490883059;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform this is how they think. 1634687;1490883067;trinque;asciilifeform: https://github.com/jameysharp/corrode << people actually do this 1634688;1490883067;mircea_popescu;"automated" is a byword for "i don't have to do any work". 1634689;1490883071;trinque;"people" anyway 1634690;1490883094;mircea_popescu;i have nfi why they imagine this. in point of fact the system that delivers milk in a bottle so they don't have to milk their own cow is MORE complex, not less. 1634691;1490883102;mircea_popescu;there's MORE work to do with automation, not less. 1634692;1490883105;*;shinohai thinks the term "corrode" is appropriate .... 1634693;1490883133;asciilifeform;trinque: that looks hilarious. do you have a copy running? try putting, say, duff's device, through it... 1634694;1490883150;mircea_popescu;and it'll crash and ewedontunderstand. 1634695;1490883173;trinque;nah, I don't write the stuff. just was subjected to some fat idiot prattling on about rust one night 1634696;1490883177;trinque;ben_vulpes knows him 1634697;1490883215;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634349 << how tru this is. because if it's sociualloy acceptable to be fat, why wouldn't it be socially acceptable to be stupid! 1634698;1490883215;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 19:28 ben_vulpes: funny how all manifestations of modernity look alike. entertain even a smidge of wokeness and you'll wake up in trans camp. 1634699;1490883233;asciilifeform;why would anybody even name a comp lang 'rust' ? how about a surgical antiseptic named 'putrescence' ? 1634700;1490883249;shinohai;lel 1634701;1490883256;trinque;they like it because it's like mother telling them they followed all the rules, and didn't even have to think about it. 1634702;1490883266;trinque;you just compile and you're a good boy 1634703;1490883274;mircea_popescu;heh 1634704;1490883279;trinque;that the guy was an SJW is not unrelated 1634705;1490883310;asciilifeform;trinque: what means 'compile and you're a good boy' ..? 1634706;1490883351;asciilifeform;is it a sort of prbization of ye olde 'cyclone' ? 'let's put bounds checks in c' 1634707;1490883481;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634673 << this is a terrible libel to custom pliers -- who do not randomly morph into liquishit in your hands, no 1634708;1490883481;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 14:04 mircea_popescu: i'm not saying "rust is bad mmkay". i couldn't care less, there's been tons of "new languages" fulfilling the need of people to "revolutionize". they all work, exactly in the way custom pliers work. 1634709;1490883729;trinque;asciilifeform: as I understand it, which is at a distance, they added an extra type system, concurrency tools, and memory management for phree, and decided this needed its own syntax 1634710;1490883846;trinque;the social commentary regards creatures who are addicted to pats on the head. whatever the supposed technical merits of the thing, they are not what guys like the one in that thread care about. 1634711;1490884178;trinque;in re: "systems programming language" it's a way of retconning C into a category with many possible members defined by "I am very smart, and could, you know, build an operating system in this" 1634712;1490884377;trinque;no such thing as a "rust machine" or "golang machine" but lets not dwell on the fact that there's a machine down there too long. 1634713;1490884552;asciilifeform;trinque: my current understanding is that derps say 'system language' when what is meant is 'has something that passes for a x86 compiler, and a c ffi' 1634714;1490884691;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in the list, it was a 1980s product that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a totem by the folx from yesterday's thread ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633873 ) 1634715;1490884691;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 15:28 mircea_popescu: there's no utility involved. suburban ustard wears item because of ~how it makes her feel~ to ~be seen~ as ~being one of the~ rather than any use. 1634716;1490884712;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform industrial niche = scripting language. 1634717;1490884736;asciilifeform;but it wasn't a scripting language. 1634718;1490884739;mircea_popescu;lua also worked well in its industrial niche ; dob isn't that much of a consideration imo 1634719;1490884742;mircea_popescu;and why not ? 1634720;1490884748;asciilifeform;it was a general-purpose thing that compiled down to x86. 1634721;1490884753;asciilifeform;(and several other archs.) 1634722;1490884762;mircea_popescu;i can compile javascript to bytecode. what's that prove ? 1634723;1490884763;trinque;queues and workers and restart upon failure didn't need a syntax 1634724;1490884769;mircea_popescu;"its industrial niche" === scripting language. 1634725;1490884772;trinque;somebody gave it one because wheeee 1634726;1490884780;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: not to bytecode, not to forth-style threadedcode. had actual optimizing compiler, like gcc. 1634727;1490884783;asciilifeform;with actual backend. 1634728;1490884793;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: 'scripting language' has a meaning. 1634729;1490884797;mircea_popescu;then perhaps i am mistaken and indeed it doesn't belong in that list. 1634730;1490884811;mircea_popescu;can't say i spent all that much time investigating. 1634731;1490884819;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: you almost certainly don't need it. 1634732;1490884821;trinque;llvm can compile js to native code. now what? 1634733;1490884863;asciilifeform;trinque: if you weld wings to a trabant, it could, theoretically, take off. does not make 'airplane'. 1634734;1490884873;asciilifeform;airplane -- is designed. 1634735;1490884877;mircea_popescu;in principle anything that can be run can be compiled, this isn't a matter. the question to you alf is, that "actual optimizing compiler, like gcc", is it WRITTEN IN ERLANG ? 1634736;1490884889;mircea_popescu;ie, does this alleged non-scripting-language bootstrap ? 1634737;1490884895;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the 1st one, funnily, was in... prolog! 2nd -- erlang. 1634738;1490884902;mircea_popescu;cuz that's what language means. has, or at least could have, self universe. 1634739;1490884915;mircea_popescu;well ok then. 1634740;1490884918;*;asciilifeform not an erlang user. but did read the 1990 b00k from ericsson. 1634741;1490884922;asciilifeform;or where was it. 1634742;1490884949;asciilifeform;sorta funny bit, actually, the original, THIN, book, is ~unobtainable; 1634743;1490884957;asciilifeform;(it has useful examples from telecom systems) 1634744;1490884964;asciilifeform;the only one you can buy today, is from the hipsters. 1634745;1490884969;asciilifeform;with wwwcrapolade. 1634746;1490884973;mircea_popescu;aha 1634747;1490885024;asciilifeform;anyway erlang is imho only worth discussing as part of a larger pattern -- industry after industry independently discovered that c -- and its entire approach to logic -- is poison 1634748;1490885034;asciilifeform;but each discoverer reacted very differently. 1634749;1490885037;mircea_popescu;there is that. 1634750;1490885047;mircea_popescu;very good field of industrial anthropology here. 1634751;1490885054;asciilifeform;(and naturally was convinced that ~his~ cure -- was unique) 1634752;1490885056;mircea_popescu;^ that's a decent doctoral thesis you just titled. 1634753;1490885068;asciilifeform;it's a thing. 1634754;1490885071;asciilifeform;or would be. 1634755;1490885110;trinque;they leaned in the direction exactly opposite their worst pain 1634756;1490885114;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: the chukchas keep finding the same flashlight in the woods, again and again and again 1634757;1490885119;trinque;erlang, uptime at all costs 1634758;1490885133;asciilifeform;currently 'rust' et al. decade ago -- haskell. prior -- the java people. 1634759;1490885141;mircea_popescu;aha 1634760;1490885156;asciilifeform;they keep finding the same flashlight ('don't use promiscuous pointers and type casts') and repaint it in various tribal colours. 1634761;1490885179;asciilifeform;affixing all sorts of irrelevant 'shit bolted to the side'. 1634762;1490885222;trinque;rust was written by a mozilla guy after long radiation damage working on a browser 1634763;1490885230;asciilifeform;but if you scratch off the savage ochre paint etc. you can see '1958' stamped on the steel. 1634764;1490885257;mircea_popescu;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f06QZCVUHg 1634765;1490885281;mircea_popescu;"Me and some guys from school had a band and we tried real hard. Jimmy quit, Jody got married, shoulda known, we'd never get far." 1634766;1490885305;mircea_popescu;idiots without a culture and without a history. "we found that lantern in the woods, and boy, those were the best days of chuka life!!1" 1634767;1490885328;asciilifeform;well they ~were~ 'best days', it was a thing that they could not, in thousand years, produce 1634768;1490885336;mircea_popescu;no argument. 1634769;1490885438;asciilifeform;trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked 1634770;1490885459;trinque;that is about uptime. 1634771;1490885459;asciilifeform;as in, you could shuffle a ~task~ (not even entire proggy) between machines, cleanly. 1634772;1490885465;trinque;yes, I'm aware 1634773;1490885477;trinque;point was in each case the design is biased *away* 1634774;1490885493;asciilifeform;trinque: elaborate 1634775;1490885632;mod6;mornin'! 1634776;1490885640;asciilifeform;hey mod6 1634777;1490885706;mod6;how goes? 1634778;1490885749;trinque;asciilifeform: biased away from the problem that hurt their business most 1634779;1490885771;trinque;and not built outward from first principles about computing 1634780;1490885850;asciilifeform;trinque: to put it in context, we're speaking of roughly 1990, and the smouldering thermonuke crater where the folx who 'built from first principles' (symbolics) used to be , was still smoking 1634781;1490885877;trinque;fits my argument rather well 1634782;1490885881;asciilifeform;it does 1634783;1490885883;*;trinque having network troubles, slowing me down 1634784;1490885897;trinque;whole industry was traumatized *by that* 1634785;1490885903;asciilifeform;it was a time of 'commodification' and 'deskilling' 1634786;1490885906;trinque;as each individual company licked particular wounds 1634787;1490885918;asciilifeform;'whatever else, infrastructure must use cheap, fungible iron, and cheap, fungible people' 1634788;1490885951;asciilifeform;this was idiocy, of a slowly lethal sort that makes radium toothpaste look quite harmless, and we are still paying for it 1634789;1490885954;asciilifeform;but there it was. 1634790;1490886050;mircea_popescu;trinque i can see it yeah. 1634791;1490886070;trinque;hell, ~america~ is this. "we had a shitty king so ~no matter what burns~ no 'king'" 1634792;1490886081;mircea_popescu;misconstrued circumstantial constraints, "we're a business, we don't have the time to fix the world" "oh, those guys failed, we gotta '''learn''' from their experience" etc 1634793;1490886103;mircea_popescu;trinque the king wasn't in any sense shitty, mind. you familiar with the tea story, yes ? 1634794;1490886105;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: or (as discussed by naggum), what is worse, 'we will learn from the Success! of microshit' 1634795;1490886155;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform aha. quite. 1634796;1490886158;mircea_popescu;trinque http://trilema.com/2014/leonard-cohen-and-what-his-unhappy-life-can-teach-us/#selection-149.0-173.421 for your convenience. 1634797;1490886160;trinque;mircea_popescu: I am, but from a particular perspective, I'm sure 1634798;1490886243;Framedragger;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634740 << for logs - original erlang demo with phones (you've probably seen this alf): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrIjfIjssLE 1634799;1490886243;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 14:41 asciilifeform not an erlang user. but did read the 1990 b00k from ericsson. 1634800;1490886327;asciilifeform;Framedragger: believe or not -- never seen 1634801;1490886346;mircea_popescu;kindergarten had a power outage one day. 1634802;1490886349;Framedragger;quite nice. dunno the year but old. 1634803;1490886368;Framedragger;(ericsson labs) 1634804;1490886382;asciilifeform;Framedragger: imho it is a mistake to make such a piece. folx who did not appreciate it from the b00k, had no business touching it. 1634805;1490886389;mircea_popescu;lol 1634806;1490886405;*;mircea_popescu recasts this statgement about pr0n. 1634807;1490886414;asciilifeform;there was nothing inherently graphical about erlang (it did not come with a bolix-style editor, or any similar exotica) 1634808;1490886492;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: telecoms multinational but you'll see w/e, so w/e 1634809;1490886506;mircea_popescu;nono i was talking about "imho it is a mistake to make such a piece. folx who did not appreciate it from the b00k, had no business touching it" 1634810;1490886522;Framedragger;ah - yeah, can't disagree with that 1634811;1490886532;Framedragger;s/see/say 1634812;1490886536;asciilifeform;Framedragger: iirc at one time ericsson tried to productize erlang. 1634813;1490886536;mircea_popescu;i know what fucking ericsson was tyvm. 1634814;1490886544;mircea_popescu;pesky upstarts that were competing with my motorola brick! 1634815;1490886556;Framedragger;:) 1634816;1490886920;mircea_popescu;and in other engineering and programming and changing the world and social justice news, http://suzannesangels.blogspot.com/2007/09/hommage-to-moira.html 1634817;1490886952;asciilifeform;dafuq's that 1634818;1490886962;mircea_popescu;i can tell you, but you sure you want to know ? 1634819;1490886974;asciilifeform;it looks vaguely familiar 1634820;1490886986;mircea_popescu;well, scum. how distinct can it get. 1634821;1490886994;*;asciilifeform realizes that it was the thing from the 2014 piece linked earlier, that he had reread last wk. 1634822;1490887034;Framedragger;asciilifeform: (aha seems to have been the case. opensorest in 1998) 1634823;1490887034;Framedragger;asciilifeform: (aha seems to have been the case. opensorest in 1998) 1634824;1490887036;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-prodigal-son/ << Trilema - The Prodigal Son 1634825;1490887060;Framedragger;(ah sorry, client buffered and repeated msg) 1634826;1490887083;Framedragger;not enough memory protection 1634827;1490887086;mircea_popescu;anyway : the nedeflorena looking character on the left is some wanna-be poet, ie unmarrigeable and unskilled but by now too old boring female. the other one is an ambitious sort, trying to make money by selling crap, in this case vegan food. she's at some point a decade ago briefly attempted to exploit for pr reasons this mentally deranged cat lady suzanne-something, who claims to be the "suzanne feeds you oranges" in leonard 1634828;1490887086;mircea_popescu; cohen's song. 1634829;1490887091;mircea_popescu;a whole increngatura. 1634830;1490887209;mircea_popescu;http://bp0.blogger.com/_FCIvnfPtELA/RwLMQUgD9fI/AAAAAAAAABw/Li0PRtyDOqU/s320/suzanne+and+sweat+pea.JPG picrelated lmao 1634831;1490887405;trinque;sweat pea << loller 1634832;1490887417;mircea_popescu;what, you gotta know how to spell to be a poetess ?!?! 1634833;1490887428;mircea_popescu;poetess you know. "fuck you, i'm a poetess!" 1634834;1490887434;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, mircea_popescu : ...colombia ? 1634835;1490887441;mircea_popescu;not colombia asciilifeform. 1634836;1490887445;asciilifeform;damn 1634837;1490887445;trinque;reminds me of junior high, some slut gets ahold of my AIM handle. hers is SweatAngle something 1634838;1490887472;*;trinque did not explore that dungeon 1634839;1490887474;mircea_popescu;whoa. 1634840;1490887499;mircea_popescu;ok, so, in junior high, this friend confessed to me (under the strictest confidence!!! which i've not to date betrayed, either. totally forgot it) 1634841;1490887508;mod6;"an adventurer is you!' 1634842;1490887520;mircea_popescu;that whenever we do pe she has this urge to go lick the sweat off guys' chests 1634843;1490887560;trinque;lol 1634844;1490887567;mircea_popescu;there may be something to this whole sweat angle! 1634845;1490887578;trinque;clearly moar than one out there 1634846;1490887603;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: androstenone 1634847;1490887609;mircea_popescu;at that age ?! 1634848;1490887615;mircea_popescu;besides, how'd she know. 1634849;1490887622;asciilifeform;wouldn't ~know~, lol 1634850;1490887624;asciilifeform;but still worx 1634851;1490887625;mircea_popescu;hm. 1634852;1490887629;asciilifeform;sows don't ~know~ either. 1634853;1490887639;asciilifeform;( you can buy it in spray cans..! 'boar mate') 1634854;1490887642;mircea_popescu;you know you may well have something there. 1634855;1490887658;asciilifeform;smells like old socks. 1634856;1490887660;asciilifeform;(to a d00d) 1634857;1490887733;mircea_popescu;this of course brings back to mind http://trilema.com/2011/a-cui-e-prietena-ta/ 1634858;1490887764;mircea_popescu;(2011 article in which mp observed that woman-in-love likes certain things of that nature, dude in comment section totally lost it.) 1634859;1490887781;asciilifeform;there was also the famous shirt experiment. 1634860;1490887788;mircea_popescu;the lede being "if she doesn't like how your balls smell, she dun love you." 1634861;1490887795;trinque;totally true 1634862;1490887813;trinque;balls, pits, whatever 1634863;1490887823;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-22#1106332 << subj 1634864;1490887823;a111;Logged on 2015-04-22 02:33 ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: the one where women in differing parts of cycle were attracted to proximate histocompatibility-pattern males (prefers 'related' during pregnancy) and distant mhc. during ovulation (prefers 'unrelated' to avoid recessive zap) 1634865;1490887830;trinque;the most lady-like chick out there is still a filthy primate 1634866;1490887830;mircea_popescu;aha 1634867;1490887877;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform i believe teh "red pill community" calls this something. 1634868;1490887921;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: i do not know what every particular chukcha calls every particular flashlight. 1634869;1490887931;mircea_popescu;readily excused. 1634870;1490887934;asciilifeform;entirely possible -- that they do. 1634871;1490887949;mircea_popescu;i been trying to recall what it is, something alpha/beta something 1634872;1490887975;mircea_popescu;obvious worst-case for google : "what is group x mislabel concept y as?" 1634873;1490888731;asciilifeform;in other lulz, https://archive.is/rGR0p >> '...federal public defender Colin Fieman wanted to admit some of the Wikileaks documents into court. The idea was to bolster his argument that even with a forensic examination of the defendant's computer, it would not be possible to see whether someone else planted child pornography on the machine, because the exhibits may show the US government has "the ability to hack into a computer witho 1634874;1490888731;asciilifeform;ut leaving any trace," the court filing, written by District Judge Robert J. Bryan, reads. ... In response, the Government requested that the proposed exhibits be excluded from trial because of their classified content... the Government (whether deliberately or unwittingly) confirmed the authenticity...' 1634875;1490888755;mircea_popescu;lel 1634876;1490888773;asciilifeform;even funnier, '...the Department of Justice is trying to retroactively seal the court filing and two others, because they apparently reference matters discussed in a portion of a transcript that is already shut-off from public view.' 1634877;1490888792;mircea_popescu;hurr. 1634878;1490888803;mircea_popescu;and they still expect to be taken seriously, these people ? why ? by whom ? 1634879;1490889008;asciilifeform;phunphakt: all usg civil servants, of whatever description, are Officially required to pretend that unhappened leaks neverhappened 1634880;1490889014;asciilifeform;this is in their employment contracts. 1634881;1490889025;mircea_popescu;top soviet keks. 1634882;1490889037;asciilifeform;and afaik does not exclude judges, with possible exception of speshul seekrit starchamber judge. 1634883;1490889131;asciilifeform;but afaik this is the first instance of the 'YOU stole my hdd, YOU could have flipped whatever bits' defense being entered in american court. 1634884;1490889152;mircea_popescu;well certainly one of the first publicized. 1634885;1490889153;phf;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634740 << is that "Concurrent Programming in ERLANG" by armstrong? 1634886;1490889153;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 14:41 asciilifeform not an erlang user. but did read the 1990 b00k from ericsson. 1634887;1490889170;asciilifeform;phf: yes! 1634888;1490889171;asciilifeform;it. 1634889;1490889195;asciilifeform;1st ed. 1634890;1490889277;phf;ah, i only have 2nd edition (1996). i agree though they went downhill from there. i don't think even armstrong's next book is particularly good 1634891;1490891935;phf;mircea_popescu: the pisspots story has the last paragraph repeated twice, second time untranslated 1634892;1490891982;Framedragger;i thought that was somehow obscurely intentional (but didnt understand why) 1634893;1490892105;phf;Meaning! 1634894;1490892698;Framedragger;intension, extension 1634895;1490892732;Framedragger;wonder if anyone's here read some fodor and his attempt at naturalised theory of meaning 1634896;1490892732;Framedragger;/me shows himself out 1634897;1490892911;Framedragger;heh someone just logged in to an old buttfinex acct. websecurity 1634898;1490893093;trinque;guess the magic number was three-factor auth 1634899;1490893227;shinohai;Sux Framedragger now it will be difficult for you to trade all those valuable tiddlywinks on site. 1634900;1490893556;asciilifeform;in other lulz, re granite thread, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10967-006-0101-1 1634901;1490893592;asciilifeform;( anybody has the full text ? ) 1634902;1490893672;shinohai;http://archive.is/2RLOE <<< in other crypto sherlox 1634903;1490894154;asciilifeform;shinohai: ludicrous crock of shit, by the time the shithub existed, thing's been out for, what, a year 1634904;1490894169;asciilifeform;somehow we are expected to... forget? 1634905;1490894215;shinohai;Considering the source, I'm not surprised with the short attention spans and lack of long-term memory. 1634906;1490894239;asciilifeform;probably -- prep for the next shitoshi. 1634907;1490894255;asciilifeform;( is the last one entirely worn out ? or still going? i have nfi ) 1634908;1490894309;trinque;guy's going after patents 1634909;1490894339;asciilifeform;why stop at bitcoin. patent the nand gate. the transistor. algebra. 1634910;1490894348;trinque;somebody already did, no doubt 1634911;1490894358;asciilifeform;not The Right somebody, evidently 1634912;1490894446;shinohai;I did a Qntra on that, not sure if he is hoping everyone forgot or what. 1634913;1490894500;shinohai;Ah yes http://qntra.net/2017/03/hoaxtoshi-returns-with-fiatist-patent-wank-forgets-tissues/ 1634914;1490894622;asciilifeform;aah him 1634915;1490894631;asciilifeform;the blunted, formerly sharp and pointy end of the http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-15#1324569 spear 1634916;1490894631;a111;Logged on 2015-11-15 01:17 mircea_popescu: i have this pile of very secret derpage here including the very expert "profile" of some random derp explaining how an elderly, principled gentleman is perhaps going to react crazily to the crass injustice of this entire scheme. 1634917;1490894643;asciilifeform;apparently he'll have to do, until they find another. 1634918;1490897449;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/five-percent-increase-in-latest-bitcoin-mining-difficulty-adjustment/ << Qntra - Five Percent Increase In Latest Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Adjustment 1634919;1490897632;trinque;whoops. 1634920;1490897661;trinque;BingoBoingo: s/^A /As / 1634921;1490897681;BingoBoingo;ty fxd 1634922;1490902391;*;CompanionCube once tried corrode on some random bits of C with little if any success. Even when it worked, it didn't produce particularly good or even 'ok' code 1634923;1490902568;trinque;https://avatars3.githubusercontent.com/u/865272?v=3&s=400 << of course, right? 1634924;1490902586;trinque;there's a particular lukejr look. 1634925;1490904836;mircea_popescu;phf a ty 1634926;1490904963;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170330/#346 << i lolkek'd. 1634927;1490904964;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-30: [16:58:13] guess the magic number was three-factor auth 1634928;1490905185;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170330/#350 << moar like entirely not-credible pr from taboola. 1634929;1490905186;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-30: [17:07:52] http://archive.is/2RLOE <<< in other crypto sherlox 1634930;1490905210;mircea_popescu;wtf are they doing with those page-width "illustrations" composed of nothing whatsoever still. 1634931;1490905233;mircea_popescu;it was kinda-cute in the sense of "he's my retarded cousin, it's not his fault he has down syndrome" ten years ago. 1634932;1490905282;shinohai;"But it's impossible to run a news site without half-page ads plastered across the screen ..... o wait." 1634933;1490905289;*;shinohai opens Qntra 1634934;1490905295;mircea_popescu;except these aren't even ads. look : 1634935;1490905315;mircea_popescu;https://archive.is/2RLOE/a8f0ba025a7cffd975e2dd59239c8ba847803b62.jpg 1634936;1490905329;phf;cyberpunk 1634937;1490905332;mircea_popescu;what's this do ? am i intuitively primed to uinderstand the topic now ? 1634938;1490905376;phf;i remember making pictures like that for my 1337 h4x0r homepage back in 98 or so. that's how i learned Gimp! 1634939;1490905395;mircea_popescu;yeah well... it's 2017 1634940;1490905450;shinohai;Far less eye-burning than cryptocoinsnews. I would love to personally douse their art department with gas and set them alight. 1634941;1490905493;mircea_popescu;i suppose this is the current-day equivalent of the demo scene. "uhm... we can't code... but we'd like to hang out with you dudes... can we do anything ? i mean besides sucking cock, something we can display in public" 1634942;1490905502;mircea_popescu;everything decays (tm). 1634943;1490905705;phf;demoscene was leet. even artfags were mostly on point 1634944;1490905705;shinohai;http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/sekoor.jpg <<< What could possibly go wrong? 1634945;1490905908;mircea_popescu;tru. 1634946;1490907820;Framedragger;in other newz, a nice dude, one liudas mažylis (after several months of research) found .lt's original declaration of independence (1918) in berlin's archives. 1634947;1490907830;Framedragger;that's nice, but the true _soviet_ of the story is, official 'bigtime' academic 'historians' / 'history' 'professors' in .lt (with bigtime names and state grants for 'projects') got *livid*. 1634948;1490907846;Framedragger;especially their leader, this ridiculous fat turd who nevertheless is featured in various tv shitshows ('to popularise history', you know) -- he's just plain jelly as fuck, (quote) "i don't even know this schmuck, some kind of driver (sic; literal), i would have great doubts as to the document's authenticity [meanwhile confirmed by germany archivists etc etc etc]", so on and so forth, in a complete caricature-like jelly manner. 1634949;1490907862;Framedragger;see, it may have been supposed to be *him*. next year will mark 100y of independence, parades, state fiatola for 'history research' assigned, etc.; but beyond the banal, i *particularly* like the transparent sheer *indignation* by the 'historians' that this dude just.. read some books.. lifted his ass up.. took a bus to berlin (literally).. and that's it. 1634950;1490907866;Framedragger;*how could they have not been included???* NOBODY ASKED US!!111 meanwhile dude in question is humble, says "well, doubt is essential to science", and smiles. 1634951;1490907930;Framedragger;the fat turd in question is otherwise 'well respected', at forefront of history academia in .lt, etc. etc. 1634952;1490907931;Framedragger;you know. 1634953;1490908909;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170330/#373 << the trotsky look for a new generation. compare/contrast http://trilema.com/2015/fetlife-the-meat-market/#footnote_4_60010 or some other pics i can't currently find lol. 1634954;1490908910;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-30: [19:36:27] there's a particular lukejr look. 1634955;1490908932;mircea_popescu;anyone happen to recall the one of the wanna-be master with a great sense of humour looking for a slavegirl in michigan or wyoming or somesuch ? 1634956;1490908948;mircea_popescu;also dork with round glasses 1634957;1490908988;mircea_popescu;Framedragger lel. absolutely typical small-country-tick reaction. "we're the official poets of shitlandia, what do you mean we'd better actually be writing poems ?!!??!?!" 1634958;1490909054;mircea_popescu;romania is no better ; i would expect the issue is universal. 1634959;1490909063;mircea_popescu;makes shit easy for us, obviously. 1634960;1490909077;Framedragger;you know, i've never seen this pattern so excellently executed. tip-top. straight from the 'how to survive as a tick' rulebook. (maybe because i can follow closely in native tongue and have keener sense of smell towards these fucks) 1634961;1490909080;Framedragger;yeah! 1634962;1490909155;mircea_popescu;i used to piss on the faces of the "online marketing experts" in ro just about the same way. various foreign pr/medioa agencies opened local offices because hey, gotta pretend coverage ; hired locals because idiots ; locals decided "THIS MEANS WE ARE COMPETENT" 1634963;1490909174;mircea_popescu;not that different from how phuctor worked irl and so on. 1634964;1490909357;Framedragger;it's nice to be able to compress these structures so well in the mind, the patterns are so..predictable, it's insane 1634965;1490909714;shinohai;To continue the "Ladies you need to follow upstairs" theme: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8HQ3ROV0AEvebx.jpg 1634966;1490910252;mircea_popescu;looks like she's going out the window though 1634967;1490910422;shinohai;It *could* lead to a sundeck ..... 1634968;1490910464;shinohai;But, if sealed window, bonus! She can't go anywhere! 1634969;1490912702;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/2017/the-lordship-list-fourth-year/ << asciilifeform , ben_vulpes , bingoboingo , danielpbarron , davout , diana_coman , hanbot , mike_c , mircea_popescu , mod6 , phf , trinque 1634970;1490913643;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/the-lordship-list-fourth-year/ << Trilema - The Lordship list, fourth year. 1634971;1490914029;ben_vulpes;the titles are interesting 1634972;1490914085;mircea_popescu;gotta have something 1634973;1490914193;ben_vulpes;what means "common pleas"? 1634974;1490914267;mircea_popescu;historically it was a part of the common law system (ie, in england) dealing with arguments among unimportant people. here it's mostly because you know, he split the bitbet pot to randos. 1634975;1490914278;ben_vulpes;ah 1634976;1490914476;shinohai;Cheers, mircea_popescu ... such a fitting name. 1634977;1490914491;mircea_popescu;innit tho :D 1634978;1490914561;*;shinohai shall add tits to his coat-of-arms if so inducted .... 1634979;1490914628;mircea_popescu;lel 1634980;1490914631;mircea_popescu;small ones ? 1634981;1490914649;mircea_popescu;"his arms bear a charge of tits" 1634982;1490914665;shinohai;And nalgitas rampart 1634983;1490914741;shinohai;*rampant, derp 1634984;1490914783;mircea_popescu;pity there isn't a suckant 1634985;1490914787;mircea_popescu;suquant i guess 1634986;1490915538;*;BingoBoingo proposes a tit-knuckled gauntlet for the Lord nominee! 1634987;1490915629;mircea_popescu;the brasstit knuckle! 1634988;1490915706;BingoBoingo;*Lord Nomtittie! 1634989;1490916190;shinohai;I actually used to have a brass doorknob shaped like a tit, gave it to one of my friends as a going-away present. 1634990;1490916208;doppler;"see you later, ya tit" 1634991;1490916613;phf;what knockers! 1634992;1490916818;trinque;oh, sank you doctah 1634993;1490917037;ben_vulpes;nalgitas twerkant 1634994;1490917665;asciilifeform;unrelatedly, can anybody tell me why zero-satoshi tx outputs exist ?! 1634995;1490917669;asciilifeform;( they -- in fact -- do ) 1634996;1490918134;phf;http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-flynn-idUSKBN1713AG turned 1634997;1490918533;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: 1634998;1490918540;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: "because we can, therefore we must"? 1634999;1490918574;ben_vulpes;phf: implying! 1635000;1490920287;*;shinohai presents tits for everyone's viewing pleasure: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8NHU2GUAAI9rd7.jpg 1635001;1490921314;phf;( leaving this here for myself, awk's pattern for filtering uniques is !foo[$col]++ ) 1635002;1490922238;asciilifeform;in other crackpotteries, http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fibertest/fg_isol_sender.jpg , http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/fibertest/fg_isol_receiver.jpg << mircea_popescu et al 1635003;1490922253;asciilifeform;^ going as we speak 1635004;1490922297;phf;hax 1635005;1490922319;asciilifeform;^ is it obvious what is in the picture or do i have to explain. 1635006;1490922373;phf;brilliant, we shall harness the power of LIGHT to make ourselves INVISIBLE to a common constable 1635007;1490922380;asciilifeform;lul 1635008;1490922392;asciilifeform;i suppose i do have to. 1635009;1490922414;asciilifeform;pc atx +5v is not ideal voltage source. and has ripple from all sorts of places. 1635010;1490922457;asciilifeform;FUCKGOATS includes a lowpass filter and three separate voltage regs, but the itch remains, does it make a diff if the thing were 1) powered by battery 2) isolated ENTIRELY from pc 1635011;1490922468;asciilifeform;(2) requires a fiber 1635012;1490922697;asciilifeform;so far it seems like the filter was designed CORRECTLY -- i.e. the setup makes 0 measurable difference, e.g., 'ent' takes ~same volume of bytes to converge pi as prior. 1635013;1490922738;asciilifeform;(and yes thing is perfectly happy to run on 6v, as pictured) 1635014;1490922759;asciilifeform;gets a ~little~ warmer... 1635015;1490922777;asciilifeform;(linear regs, after all) 1635016;1490922911;*;shinohai doesn't have one yet, but imagined he could run this from bench power supply ? 1635017;1490922935;asciilifeform;shinohai: normally it runs from the usb-ttl snake's 5v 1635018;1490922967;shinohai;nifty isolation though 1635019;1490922972;asciilifeform;but yeah, pretty much anything 4-7v will work 1635020;1490923007;asciilifeform;chinese piece of shit power brick, however, note, is likely to have MOAR ripple than your pc. 1635021;1490923026;asciilifeform;battery is the gold standard. 1635022;1490923149;asciilifeform;the fiber converter pictured here is the one from the last fiber thread 1635023;1490923167;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-30#1609890 << it 1635024;1490923167;a111;Logged on 2017-01-30 18:46 asciilifeform: https://shop.mikroe.com/click/interface/fiber-opt-33v << finally, what i had in mind. 1635025;1490923196;asciilifeform;i expect it would also work quite well for 'data diode' and similar applications. 1635026;1490923215;asciilifeform;( when i loopback it, connecting its arse and mouth -- worx ) 1635027;1490923235;asciilifeform;fiber here is 5 metres, cheapest plastic (not glass) 1635028;1490923327;asciilifeform;( before anyone asks 'wtf' -- the fibertron wants 3.3v, so it gets it from the tap in the jtag port ) 1635029;1490923386;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E6DCEBDE39E7F10BA838F939E26B4850BBF6F548B9E32CD9F7CFEE7EFA9F25D0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1056...5367 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '218.21.254.226 (ssh-rsa key from 218.21.254.226 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN 15) 1635030;1490923386;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1526DBC877ADF44EDAC2B5A96AB4BD7B9F652B0059EBBA7A217940E4B3A6AC61 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1056...3299 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '186.167.34.199 (ssh-rsa key from 186.167.34.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown VE A) 1635031;1490923387;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E6DCEBDE39E7F10BA838F939E26B4850BBF6F548B9E32CD9F7CFEE7EFA9F25D0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1056...3299 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '218.21.254.226 (ssh-rsa key from 218.21.254.226 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown CN 15) 1635032;1490923387;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1526DBC877ADF44EDAC2B5A96AB4BD7B9F652B0059EBBA7A217940E4B3A6AC61 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1139...6409 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '186.167.34.199 (ssh-rsa key from 186.167.34.199 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown VE A) 1635033;1490923468;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform looks like a differential power set-up 1635034;1490923485;mircea_popescu;ah in the logs, mkay nm. 1635035;1490923782;asciilifeform;indeed. 1635036;1490924136;deedbot;http://trilema.com/2017/what-did-you-expect/ << Trilema - What did you expect ? 1635037;1490924364;mircea_popescu;Known Moduli: 5746341 Moduli Broken: 1395 1635038;1490924452;asciilifeform;aha? 1635039;1490924505;*;asciilifeform still quite frustrated that he has not yet solved the various 'icebergs' whose 'birthday theorem' tip we are seeing -- e.g. mikrotik, etc 1635040;1490924539;asciilifeform;really we oughta be able to nail ~all~ of them. 1635041;1490924613;mircea_popescu;what's the rush alfie. 1635042;1490924629;asciilifeform;vita brevis 1635043;1490924641;mircea_popescu;not like djb is going to come to his senses and have "his employees" "phd students" beat you to it. 1635044;1490924660;mircea_popescu;there's conferences to attend and shit!!1 1635045;1490924834;*;shinohai wonders if asciilifeform has nightmares of Hanno Bock cracking all his moduli ..... 1635046;1490924854;asciilifeform;shinohai: lol, all of them?! 1635047;1490924890;asciilifeform;shinohai: incidentally he had a 'we have MOAR!' article, containing a small number of the ones we popped at the time, plus some that i still have nfi where the corresponding pubkeys lived 1635048;1490924899;asciilifeform;( not in sks.. ) 1635049;1490924924;shinohai;Possibly reside in imagination? 1635050;1490924949;asciilifeform;the inescapeable conclusion 1635051;1490924957;asciilifeform;generated for the occasion 1635052;1490924981;shinohai;With purpose-built Debian box 1635053;1490925507;*;CompanionCube wonders what the best key(s) to get phuctored would be. USG/NSA''s? Intel/AMD's signing keys? 1635054;1490925649;mircea_popescu;small number still made up 65% of the list. 1635055;1490925681;asciilifeform;!#s flipolade 1635056;1490925682;a111;15 results for "flipolade", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=flipolade 1635057;1490925838;mircea_popescu;and in other lulz, tmsr.es 1635058;1490926004;shinohai;"Con TMSR nunca te irás para casa sin rodar aunque te caigas o llueva" 1635059;1490926016;shinohai;True ^ 1635060;1490926025;mircea_popescu;lol 1635061;1490926299;mircea_popescu;in other lulz teh butthurt outpour is pretty lulzy. "trump gutted obamapower!!1" "trump gutted obamacare!11" it never ends lol 1635062;1490927388;shinohai;The latest from my Columbian callipygous files: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/PAULA44.jpg 1635063;1490927749;BingoBoingo;In other news, lumber prices are ticking up at retail, as reported on Qntra in February http://qntra.net/2017/02/us-likely-to-reimpose-tariffs-on-canadian-softwood-lumber-soon/ 1635064;1490927871;shinohai;http://imgur.com/a/VVGLN <<< For any anorexic Bitcoiners reading the logs and needing a barf without sticking a finger down throat .... 1635065;1490928194;CompanionCube;what was whoever created that on 1635066;1490928196;BingoBoingo;Is mircea_popescu perhaps in Chile? 1635067;1490928206;mircea_popescu;is not. 1635068;1490928209;BingoBoingo;CompanionCube: prolly robitussin 1635069;1490928233;BingoBoingo;mircea_popescu: Well tomorrow I guess I'll have to spend my guess on Liberia. 1635070;1490928254;shinohai;CompanionCube: Purple Drank 1635071;1490928255;mircea_popescu;shinohai lmao. historically, the stupid poor always tried to "direct" others. 1635072;1490928332;shinohai;If someone makes it to the end, lemme know what happened. It almost induced a seizure in me. 1635073;1490928365;*;CompanionCube will take on the challenge 1635074;1490928598;*;asciilifeform read it, snored 1635075;1490928631;BingoBoingo;Lesson of the day: The hardest part of buying paint is browising through color chips to find one that doesn't have a faggy name. 1635076;1490928653;*;shinohai feels bad he made a post that made asciilifeform sleep and possible dream of Hanno Bock 1635077;1490928830;asciilifeform;lol 1635078;1490928880;CompanionCube;lol. 'We will place Bitcoin under our control in the most devious way possible... We will optimize it, we will make it efficient, scalable, decentralized to the extreme. We will make it private and fungible, we will gurarantee that it is completely uncensorable anywhere in the world... the idiots will never see it coming' 1635079;1490931656;BingoBoingo;!~ticker --market all 1635080;1490931662;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1044.25, vol: 8317.81934904 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1047.5, vol: 8564.43026 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1051.4, vol: 26524.08275378 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 983.762039, vol: 10898.18040000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1045.292, vol: 3170.45752317 | Volume-weighted last average: 1036.62192291 1635081;1490932249;trinque;someone was proud of this. 1635082;1490932279;trinque;relatedly, two separate bums asked for money when I was fueling a very nice truck just now. 1635083;1490932308;trinque;the first tried to touch me, so I told him to fuck off. the second kept his distance, so I helpfully let him know he should manage his money better. 1635084;1490932310;trinque;gotta do what you can. 1635085;1490932343;BingoBoingo;It's Texas. He who has the truck makes the rules. 1635086;1490932384;trinque;so offer to pump my gas for me while I sit on my mobile throne. I might throw a couple bucks. 1635087;1490932428;trinque;nah, one wants to shake hands like he's someone and the other rambles nonsense about helping da youf 1635088;1490932632;BingoBoingo;Tell them if they jump in the back, you'll give em $30 to help you shovel a load of manure in, and they can pick their destination once the truck's loaded. 1635089;1490932642;mircea_popescu;yeah, what happened to full service gas stations ? 1635090;1490932655;mircea_popescu;"minimum wage happened, mp" 1635091;1490932660;mircea_popescu;oooh, that's right! 1635092;1490932719;trinque;at least he has the dignity that the job he doesn't have pays a living waeg!!!11 1635093;1490932745;trinque;seriously, I once considered starting some kind of labor camp where you bus these guys in and just have 'em toil on whatever 1635094;1490932749;trinque;feed, house, etc 1635095;1490932766;trinque;before taking another 30sec and considering the labor laws involved 1635096;1490932786;trinque;limbs rotting off under an overpass is way better 1635097;1490932792;BingoBoingo;Seriously trinque creative guy like you could prolly find a use for a couple cubic yards of manure. There has to be a courthouse nearby. 1635098;1490932808;trinque;I did not properly record my lol at that idea. 1635099;1490932811;trinque;it's pretty damn excellent 1635100;1490932890;BingoBoingo;If a bum want's money he's for hire. If he doesn't want your wage for doing your work, the bum can get fucked. Hence Bumfucked. 1635101;1490932963;asciilifeform;BingoBoingo: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bridge-collapses-atlanta-freeway-fire-during-rush-hour-n740871 1635102;1490932979;BingoBoingo;A lord is not obligated to challenge a bum's pleas for cash with trabajo, but a lord is welcome to. 1635103;1490933053;BingoBoingo;HOLY SHIT ALF FUCKING FAKE NEWS BURIED THIS "SIGNAL" In 'hurr durr flynn' 'hurr durr committee' 1635104;1490933180;BingoBoingo;Also fuck PVC 1635105;1490933248;trinque;https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7a3_1490929288 << (shitty) footage 1635106;1490933353;trinque;https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e11_1490918366 1635107;1490933414;BingoBoingo;Anyways, this is decent roundup xtend fuel 1635108;1490934021;BingoBoingo;This plus the organophosphate fan club, actual pesticide edition may be justified 1635109;1490934798;mircea_popescu;iiincredible, you mean infrastructure doesn't upkeep itself ?! 1635110;1490935460;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9838A8C979FE64750D2CAF9C52882E716DD2B5723A27D7C0D889903C3985425C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1089...1077 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.12.213 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.12.213 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE HE) 1635111;1490935460;deedbot;http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9838A8C979FE64750D2CAF9C52882E716DD2B5723A27D7C0D889903C3985425C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1222...3387 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.37.12.213 (ssh-rsa key from 77.37.12.213 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) ; ' (Unknown DE HE) 1635112;1490935945;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634606 << old air-cooled vw bug currently tops my list 1635113;1490935945;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 03:34 pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634474 << what you really want is http://cdn2.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styles/gallery_adv/public/0/63/4_8_0_0_0.jpg?itok=9Yt1kgFK http://goautomedia.cdn.on.net/gallery/citroen/c4%20cactus/HIRES-Citroen%20Cactus%20003.jpg a citroen! 1635114;1490936116;CompanionCube;hah. 'Apache/2.2.3 (Debian) DAV/2 PHP/5.2.0-8+etch15 Server at 77.37.12.213 Port 80' 1635115;1490936215;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634650 << life is too short to drive oneself around 1635116;1490936215;a111;Logged on 2017-03-30 04:08 asciilifeform: not a chore because plastic panels, no. but -- chore. 1635117;1490936345;ben_vulpes;if there's not fifteen degrees between your angles of velocity and acceleration why bother 1635118;1490936432;ben_vulpes;vectors* 1635119;1490937650;shinohai;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-31#1635107 <<< /me has only heard of teh collapse, caused by 'massive fire' - yet I have yet to hear what caused the fire in the first place. 1635120;1490937650;a111;Logged on 2017-03-31 04:10 BingoBoingo: Anyways, this is decent roundup xtend fuel 1635121;1490937686;ben_vulpes;possibly pvc pipes, according to link 1635122;1490938604;mircea_popescu;pvc pipes carrying what ? 1635123;1490939076;ben_vulpes;stored empty under the bridge 1635124;1490954295;mircea_popescu;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-31#1635123 << this is ridiculous. for one thing, pvc piping is treated against this, won't burn by itself (much like how cigarette won't burn out, if you don't drag it goes out). 1635125;1490954295;a111;Logged on 2017-03-31 05:44 ben_vulpes: stored empty under the bridge 1635126;1490955749;mircea_popescu;for the other thing, leaving aside the whole "pvc doesn't actually burn hot enough to melt bridge" - suppose it's 16 inch schedule 80 pipe. that means 30 or so meters per ton, but it also means that if you store ten pipes on the ground (4 meters wide, this), with nine on top followed by eight on 3rd level etc you get five levels of that per two meters height. pvc is about 40 MJ/kg, the arrangement would yield 10+9+8+7+6 = 40m 1635127;1490955749;mircea_popescu; total worth of pipe under any meter of bridge worth maaaybe 50-60 GJ/meter over however long they take to burn, half hour or such. even unventilated, what's that supposed to do ? next we're going to hear rpo-a shmel can take out us bridges an' shit. 1635128;1490956601;mircea_popescu;(to be clear : this isn't an argument in the vein of "what happened didn;t happen", but merely an observation that the item must have been VERY poorly maintained for the collapse to occur. that it's being sold as disaster is very much in the vein of the 1923 "palace of established happiness" fire : the eunuchs dun really want anyone to see how much they've stolen, so there was a... fire.) 1635129;1490959105;mod6;mornin' 1635130;1490959258;mircea_popescu;heya mod6 1635131;1490959535;mod6;http://trilema.com/2017/the-lordship-list-fourth-year/#comment-121708 1635132;1490959562;mircea_popescu;cheers. 1635133;1490959597;mod6;o7 1635134;1490968548;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-31#1635126 << hey, if the imbecile public bought the melting skyscrapers, they'll buy a bridge, why not. 1635135;1490968548;a111;Logged on 2017-03-31 10:22 mircea_popescu: for the other thing, leaving aside the whole "pvc doesn't actually burn hot enough to melt bridge" - suppose it's 16 inch schedule 80 pipe. that means 30 or so meters per ton, but it also means that if you store ten pipes on the ground (4 meters wide, this), with nine on top followed by eight on 3rd level etc you get five levels of that per two meters height. pvc is about 40 MJ/kg, the arrangement would yield 10+9+8+7+6 = 40m 1635136;1490968722;Framedragger;just ftr, i've been poking around scans.io which now has a search interface for (e.g.) all ipv4 space (among other things). e.g.: https://www.censys.io/ipv4/79.98.25.182/table#22 (ssh - banner, whole public key, etc.; also https, etc etc.) 1635137;1490968757;Framedragger;^ could be useful (obvs would be even more useful to replicate all that data and own it (so to speak)) 1635138;1490968858;Framedragger;but also a useful reminder that scanz done here are not original, and it's not an instance of "this was done before, whoops no data to show there." (ironically took a look at censys.io due to https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/262.pdf (hanno boeck's article)) 1635139;1490969340;shinohai;The deceitful shitbag strikes again. 1635140;1490969697;Framedragger;i'm not convinced he lied (NOT TROLLING/BAITING) :D i think he may have just been daft, and expecting to be taken seriously when saying "oh i did dis. look an article" 1635141;1490972300;asciilifeform;were you there for the seclist thread with boeck, Framedragger ? 1635142;1490972307;asciilifeform;or for when he pushed the latest shitoshi 1635143;1490972310;asciilifeform;and megablox 1635144;1490972313;asciilifeform;or,... 1635145;1490972324;Framedragger;shitoshi - no, don't recall. 1635146;1490972331;asciilifeform;i recommend to reread mircea_popescu's 2parter re boeck. 1635147;1490972339;Framedragger;i'll search later but if you have references handy, would be helpful and would read 1635148;1490972345;*;shinohai chose to wait for asciilifeform and not take the bait 1635149;1490972353;Framedragger;(i did just read one of those two parts) 1635150;1490972413;asciilifeform;http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-04#1462458 1635151;1490972413;a111;Logged on 2016-05-04 14:41 BingoBoingo: http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2016/q2/224 1635152;1490972417;Framedragger;thank you 1635153;1490972418;asciilifeform;^ and thread 1635154;1490973329;ben_vulpes;http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/31/fbi-arrests-hacker-who-hacked-no-one.html 1635155;1490973615;shinohai;Write tool for skids, get blamed for their havoc. 1635156;1490974243;ben_vulpes;live by the amusing crazy of ms, die by the amusing crazy of usg 1635157;1490974534;trinque;and also living under queer legal systems where intent matters 1635158;1490975550;asciilifeform;'Huddleston, though, isn’t a hacker. He’s the author of a remote administration tool, or RAT, called NanoCore that happens to be popular with hackers. NanoCore has been linked to intrusions in at least 10 countries, including an attack on Middle Eastern energy firms in 2015, and a massive phishing campaign last August in which the perpetrators posed as major oil and gas company.' 1635159;1490975559;asciilifeform;number of microshit execs arrested and hanged : 0 1635160;1490979626;shinohai;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8P3Ms4XgAAVsXN.jpg <<< lel 1635161;1490979961;BingoBoingo;!~bcstats 1635162;1490979962;jhvh1;BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 459792 | Current Difficulty: 4.99635929816E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 461663 | Next Difficulty In: 1871 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 6 hours, 39 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None 1635163;1490981298;trinque;http://trilema.com/2017/the-lordship-list-fourth-year/#comment-121713 1635164;1490981449;asciilifeform;in other lulz, http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E2F4757FC884524C955F904C46307B1769B0A6F8B4FA439DB196277DA2599617 1635165;1490982112;trinque;these kids that want to emulate the movie hackers... 1635166;1490983115;shinohai;Today is "International Transgender Day of Visibility" .... Where's Leah ? 1635167;1490983434;*;shinohai welcomes mircea_popescu back: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8QZCjQXYAACjE5.jpg 1635168;1490983443;mircea_popescu;lol ty! 1635169;1490983451;asciilifeform;ohai mircea_popescu 1635170;1490983461;mircea_popescu;i say, girls here have a lot better tits than argentines. 1635171;1490983466;mircea_popescu;nfi how this is possibru. 1635172;1490983486;shinohai;Feel free to share pics for science. 1635173;1490983491;ben_vulpes;that is one highly manicured babe 1635174;1490983500;mircea_popescu;they're also incredibly camera shy! mindboggling. 1635175;1490983529;asciilifeform;http://trilema.com/2017/linda-vista-social-club/#comment-121714 << oh hah! 1635176;1490983534;mircea_popescu;:) 1635177;1490983558;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform get a load of this : kids get examined EVERY YEAR. 1635178;1490983561;ben_vulpes;no way! 1635179;1490983565;mircea_popescu;im telling you. 1635180;1490983579;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: didja re-use the same old castle mircea_popescustein you had there prior ? 1635181;1490983581;mircea_popescu;and none of the bs, teacher delivers in classroom 1635182;1490983585;ben_vulpes;(in re c.r.) 1635183;1490983598;mircea_popescu;it's exam time whole city is full of kids all ages (jr high even!!) walking to exam centers 1635184;1490983614;shinohai;Goddamnit I ALMOST SAID Costa Rica yesterday .... 1635185;1490983616;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform nah. ten years increased the size significantly. 1635186;1490983635;mircea_popescu;i'm fat nao. 1635187;1490983678;asciilifeform;lel 1635188;1490983688;asciilifeform;and oh hey, BingoBoingo can finally drive to visit mircea_popescu . 1635189;1490983698;mircea_popescu;so can you. 1635190;1490983712;asciilifeform;he likes driving. 1635191;1490983733;asciilifeform;though given the condition of american airports, it is no longer obvious that air is faster.. 1635192;1490983752;mircea_popescu;actually i was thinking, im not going to hold another conference, because it's just not a sane opsec proposition. however, one fellow at a time coming down for a week or somesuch is more than tenable. what's airfare, fiddy bux ? pack up the missus an' come say hi. 1635193;1490983768;asciilifeform;definitely. 1635194;1490983774;mircea_popescu;Framedragger is it your site that ? 1635195;1490983827;Framedragger;mircea_popescu: which one? 1635196;1490983835;mircea_popescu;scans.io 1635197;1490983836;asciilifeform;land of the ocelot, eh. who wouldn't want to visit. 1635198;1490983843;Framedragger;ah - no! was there before me 1635199;1490983858;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's this distinct clicking colibris make when they come for the first morning drink. 1635200;1490983865;mircea_popescu;sounds pretty much like old hdd giving up the ghost 1635201;1490983869;mircea_popescu;!#s click of dearth 1635202;1490983870;a111;0 results for "click of dearth", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=click%20of%20dearth 1635203;1490983881;asciilifeform;i think we've all heard the Click 1635204;1490983889;asciilifeform;and believe or not, the bird is found even here. 1635205;1490983897;asciilifeform;but -- rare. 1635206;1490983902;mircea_popescu;i wonder if anyone tried pouring some honey on the things. maybe they were just aiming for colibri ?! 1635207;1490983921;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform there's many different kinds of them. these are dark blue. 1635208;1490983935;mircea_popescu;se swamp ones more like rusty orange iirc. 1635209;1490983995;mircea_popescu;Framedragger nice info dump that censys.io thing though 1635210;1490984025;asciilifeform;i was looking at it this morning -- not so nice imho. it seems to have unwritten snippety-snipping re 'konsoomer' ip ranges 1635211;1490984041;mircea_popescu;i dunno how complete it is. 1635212;1490984044;asciilifeform;and doesn't do full port scan, has, e.g., nfi that dulap has bitcoin on 8333 1635213;1490984056;asciilifeform;doesn't see zoolag at all 1635214;1490984071;asciilifeform;(because, i suspect, 'konsoomer' and various 'it wouldn't do' propositions) 1635215;1490984082;asciilifeform;so presently asciilifeform is unimpressed 1635216;1490984092;mircea_popescu;full port is slow and expensive though. "Censys collects data on hosts and websites through daily ZMap and ZGrab scans of the IPv4 address space, in turn maintaining a database of how hosts and websites are configured." 1635217;1490984100;mircea_popescu;you'd prolly need 4k machines to do full port scans daily 1635218;1490984109;asciilifeform;it sure is, Framedragger described how expensive. you end up regularly booted off isp 1635219;1490984121;asciilifeform;or how did it go. 1635220;1490984122;mircea_popescu;my only problem is that they use google groups. had they had an irc room i'd have dropped by. a well. 1635221;1490984132;mircea_popescu;asciilifeform you spread them out. 1635222;1490984135;Framedragger;(unless..you know..botnet..) 1635223;1490984139;mircea_popescu;right. 1635224;1490984200;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170331/#151 << yeah well, selective history is the best way to turn apparent malice into probable stupidity. 1635225;1490984201;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-31: [14:58:44] shitoshi - no, don't recall. 1635226;1490984244;Framedragger;no i agree, should educate self before saying things like that, so will do. 1635227;1490984307;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170331/#162 << justice is not a SOPS item ; maintaining the crown however is. dorks just want necks to squeeze s'all. entirely symmetrical to mp's http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1634183 1635228;1490984308;a111;Logged on 2017-03-29 17:59 mircea_popescu: correct strategy when dealing with the empire of idiots -- hang the idiots, not their handlers. 1635229;1490984308;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-31: [15:30:44] live by the amusing crazy of ms, die by the amusing crazy of usg 1635230;1490984333;mircea_popescu;they wanna hang people who can do, not the idiots. the idiots are their own. 1635231;1490984362;ben_vulpes;http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-31#1635192 << riddled with zika, so not any time soon 1635232;1490984362;a111;Logged on 2017-03-31 18:09 mircea_popescu: actually i was thinking, im not going to hold another conference, because it's just not a sane opsec proposition. however, one fellow at a time coming down for a week or somesuch is more than tenable. what's airfare, fiddy bux ? pack up the missus an' come say hi. 1635233;1490984376;mircea_popescu;zika ?! how the fuck did you get thatr 1635234;1490984389;asciilifeform;ain't it a bit far north for that 1635235;1490984412;ben_vulpes;cdc is ~only resource i have 1635236;1490984436;mircea_popescu;wait. do you mean YOU got zika fever and can't travel, or do you mean costa rica has it ? 1635237;1490984456;ben_vulpes;floating around c.r., aaui 1635238;1490984474;mircea_popescu;eh that's ridiculous. i've yet to see a mosquito. 1635239;1490984505;mircea_popescu;(believe it or not this was on mp's list of things for the scouts to look out for. not because of any disease per se but because i can't fucking stand the buggers.) 1635240;1490984505;asciilifeform;looks like usg has ~everything starting with texas and below coloured in. 1635241;1490984524;ben_vulpes;no mosquitos in centroamerica? 1635242;1490984529;asciilifeform;incl. argentina, where the mosquitoes didn't even ~work~ 1635243;1490984530;mircea_popescu;in costa rica. 1635244;1490984537;asciilifeform;(were unable to pierce asciilifeform's skin, at all) 1635245;1490984543;mircea_popescu;may be a problem down by the beach ? (humans live way up in the mountain here) 1635246;1490984558;ben_vulpes;hm interesting 1635247;1490984608;*;mircea_popescu will now have this looked into. 1635248;1490984625;ben_vulpes;ya, thx 1635249;1490984646;asciilifeform;what does zika do to a grown man anyway 1635250;1490984650;ben_vulpes;woman 1635251;1490984651;mircea_popescu;pregnant women iirc 1635252;1490984678;ben_vulpes;plus viral, so big fat ? on how long it hangs around 1635253;1490984713;ben_vulpes;asciilifeform: imposes a great big fucking weight on a man's pocketbook, above and beyond the typical spawn 1635254;1490984806;mircea_popescu;ok here we go : 1635255;1490984808;mircea_popescu;"As of W5 2017, 1`722 confirmed cases of Zika have been reported in Costa Rica. As of W50 2016, the cantons reporting the highest cumulative rate per 10`000 population are Garabito(289), Orotina (266), and Esparza(235)." 1635256;1490984814;mircea_popescu;none of which in san jose. 1635257;1490984872;mircea_popescu;seems it peaked at 550 confirmed cases in august 2016 and is down to ~50 suspected cases by feb. 1635258;1490984968;mircea_popescu;apparently they got a grand total of 3 probable cases. https://www.ministeriodesalud.go.cr/index.php/biblioteca-de-archivos/vigilancia-de-la-salud/analisis-de-situacion-de-salud/3243-boletin-epidemiologico-no-11-2017-zika-chikungunya-y-dengue/file 1635259;1490985099;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes anyway, so bring the fixed ones ; or give it a few weeks, either way. 1635260;1490985134;ben_vulpes;aya, noted 1635261;1490985150;ben_vulpes;not doing a lot of travel for the next few years for obvious reasons 1635262;1490985181;mircea_popescu;the thing is supposed to be an amenity not an inconvenience at any rate. 1635263;1490985243;ben_vulpes;nono, i'd love to! 'twould be a riot! i am just exceptionally lazy 1635264;1490985366;mircea_popescu;http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170331/#165 << pretty much the only cogent thing to say about that idiocy. 1635265;1490985367;scriba;Logged on 2017-03-31: [15:52:39] number of microshit execs arrested and hanged : 0 1635266;1490985667;mircea_popescu;anyway, cr geography is very california-like. there's beach and mountain. 1635267;1490985687;mircea_popescu;the beach goes to both atlantic and pacific though, and the mountain's really a volcano, but anyway 1635268;1490985891;ben_vulpes;i would very much like to piss into both oceans on the same day 1635269;1490985893;ben_vulpes;that would please me 1635270;1490985898;asciilifeform;ben_vulpes: and pet a jaguar. 1635271;1490985911;asciilifeform;( pretty sure cr is one of the few places that still has him ) 1635272;1490986052;mircea_popescu;yeah jaguars are cool 1635273;1490986064;mircea_popescu;they're like cat**cat in terms of sheer elegance. 1635274;1490986104;mircea_popescu;ben_vulpes one of the best things to do with import sluts is take them up the arenal, you can watch the lava flow in the night. 1635275;1490986108;ben_vulpes;the jet-turbine-powered motorbike of cats 1635276;1490986157;mircea_popescu;but there's a general "This place is too fucking cool to sleep" vibe, and besides -- no one may claim they've had fruit before having them in cr. whole different ballgame re what ripe actually means. 1635277;1490986310;mircea_popescu;oh, and also, as the latest addition to trilema headerspace may attest, i look strapping in a panama hat! 1635278;1490986353;asciilifeform;i see a hog-tied chick 1635279;1490986393;mircea_popescu;it picks randomly 1635280;1490986409;mircea_popescu;http://trilema.com/wp-content/themes/trilema/images/bg_apr2017.jpg 1635281;1490986424;shinohai;I have the tied up girl too ... perfect for my guests earlier. 1635282;1490986441;mircea_popescu;she's not even tied, just discarded. 1635283;1490986509;shinohai;I see you have traded the machete for an umbrella. 1635284;1490986519;*;shinohai hopes it shoots poison darts ..... 1635285;1490986528;asciilifeform;ffffffpt. 1635286;1490986536;mircea_popescu;lol 1635287;1490986566;mircea_popescu;shoots tzetze flies 1635288;1490986589;shinohai;A bit more merciful than teste flies. 1635289;1490987017;mircea_popescu;incidentally the t 1635290;1490987045;mircea_popescu;tzetze is one of the most effectual human repellants. there's a large area of verdant africa which stays that way because neither cattle nor obamas can live there. 1635291;1490987062;mircea_popescu;and by large we mean like 10mn sqkms sorta large. 1635292;1490987103;trinque;mircea_popescu: congrats on the move! enjoyed my brief tour of CR very much, will be back through someday. 1635293;1490987114;mircea_popescu;aha 1635294;1490987374;ben_vulpes;bwahaha 1635295;1490987390;ben_vulpes;got a piece of paper from some government science department, "response required by law" 1635296;1490987414;asciilifeform;lolwat 1635297;1490987414;ben_vulpes;veen's over there ranting about how "fuck buddy and here i thought forever stamps a decent hedge against inflation but NO the FUCKING GOVERNMENT can just MAKE YOU BURN THEM" 1635298;1490987453;mircea_popescu;wait wut 1635299;1490987465;asciilifeform;how is printolade ( the last time asciilifeform bought postage stamps, they came out of an INKJET PRINTER i shit thee not, right in the vending machine) a hedge of any sort ? 1635300;1490987715;ben_vulpes;it's a postage stamp asciilifeform 1635301;1490987721;ben_vulpes;it's not actually a hedge 1635302;1490987769;asciilifeform;betcha somebody, somewhere, really did think 'oh hey a fiddycent treasury bond' at some point. 1635303;1490987798;*;ben_vulpes regards the fireproof lockbox of stamps sadly 1635304;1490987813;ben_vulpes;i thought this was how warren buffet got rich 1635305;1490987814;ben_vulpes;scam 1635306;1490987824;asciilifeform;lul 1635307;1490987824;mircea_popescu;no he collected chewing gum wrappers 1635308;1490987827;mircea_popescu;whole different thing! 1635309;1490987837;asciilifeform;oh speaking of 1635310;1490987850;asciilifeform;word has it that wriggley co. is in hot water with ru gov 1635311;1490987888;asciilifeform;for selling chewing gum where wrapper had instruction 'climb to the top of a tall building and think of what you must accomplish before death' 1635312;1490987945;asciilifeform;it was supposed to be a lol, but mistimed, there is a mass hysteria in ru presently re 'gas fairy' and similar memes 1635313;1490987979;ben_vulpes;gas fairy? 1635314;1490987984;mircea_popescu;here's some random lul : wolbachia is possibly the most successful bacteria ; in any case is the most widely distributed sexual transmitted disease ; about half of all insects extant carry some form ; many species can't reproduce if uninfected, or cant' even survive. 1635315;1490988006;asciilifeform;https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3037124/kids-suffer-horrific-burns-in-sinister-fire-fairy-online-game-which-tricks-them-into-turning-on-gas-ringsafter-blue-whale-suicide-game-is-linked-to-130-deaths/ << english , just for ben_vulpes 1635316;1490988009;mircea_popescu;ONE of the things wolbachia does is... feminize! (because sperm can't carry it, only females do). so it makes these feminine or pseudo-feminine male insects. 1635317;1490988068;asciilifeform;mircea_popescu: al schwartz wrote about a similar parasite in fish 1635318;1490988119;mircea_popescu;considering how poorly understood infection is, i wonder how many of the contemporaneous faux males are actually biologically infected with dumbass rather than just genetically unfit. 1635319;1490988232;shinohai;!~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/UgQoa/?raw=true <<< a nice, lulzy way to round up this month 1635320;1490988232;jhvh1;shinohai: The operation succeeded. 1635321;1490988873;mircea_popescu;and it also provides drm! infected males can't reproduce with disease-free females (or females infected by other strains). 1635322;1490988879;mircea_popescu;quite the fascinating little bugger. 1635323;1490988915;mircea_popescu;!~google trichogramma 1635324;1490988916;jhvh1;mircea_popescu: Trichogramma - Wikipedia: ; Moth Egg Parasite ( Trichogramma Wasp) | Planet Natural: ; Trichogramma – Free Shipping | Planet Natural: 1635325;1490988952;ben_vulpes;!#s cpio 1635326;1490988953;a111;6 results for "cpio", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cpio 1635327;1490989394;shinohai;https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8LF7SbUIAAnDFx.jpg <<< "Advert in local newspaper in Pakistan by people who have congratulated a friend for buying an iPhone" 1635328;1490999994;BingoBoingo;Costa Rica v. Argentina defiitely shaves some months off of the drive 1635329;1491000081;mircea_popescu;fo sho. 1635330;1491000306;deedbot;http://qntra.net/2017/03/the-dao-is-still-empty-slock-it-derps-claim-anon-investor-interest/ << Qntra - The DAO Is Still Empty: Slock.it Derps Claim Anon Investor Interest 1635331;1491000504;shinohai;meh I kinda flubbed the closing on that article, but still lulzy 1635332;1491000590;shinohai;Maybe s/security is top notch/security is some of the best available/ 1635333;1491000896;BingoBoingo;Well, time to start fussing over the next piece 1635334;1491000949;*;shinohai wrote the piece on his patio in direct sun, far away from burning interstate overpasses .... 1635335;1491000979;shinohai;The going inside to encrypt it should have given me pause though. 1635336;1491001052;BingoBoingo;https://archive.is/SFLHs 1635337;1491001063;BingoBoingo;brb